# Physics?



## Machinist Ralf (Jul 14, 2009)

I've been wondering, why pull logs up hill? why not let physics do most of the work? May be you experienced guys could help my understanding.:monkey:


----------



## Mike PA (Jul 14, 2009)

Not a logger, but I'm gonna reply anyway. Things roll downhill. Tough to stop a heavy log heading downhill. More dangerous. Just a thought.


----------



## Fronty Owner (Jul 14, 2009)

I would say its safer to fall the trees down hill and like Mike said, its easier to stop something from rolling uphill than down hill...


----------



## chucker (Jul 14, 2009)

that would be something like gravity verses kinetic energy, with gravity being the major force over horse power! i think ????


----------



## Philbert (Jul 14, 2009)

*Just guessing*

? Cause the roads are at the tops of the hills?

? To set the drag lines up they need to be up high?

Philbert


----------



## TreePointer (Jul 15, 2009)

I'm not a pro logger, either, but I've sent some to a mill. For me, it's all about control. Logs that roll down a hill and hit hard things can be damaged/splintered and even drag your equipment with them (yikes). Damaged logs = little/no money from the mill. Logs that you drag up a hill are in your control (for the most part).


----------



## Humptulips (Jul 15, 2009)

TreePointer said:


> I'm not a pro logger, either, but I've sent some to a mill. For me, it's all about control. Logs that roll down a hill and hit hard things can be damaged/splintered and even drag your equipment with them (yikes). Damaged logs = little/no money from the mill. Logs that you drag up a hill are in your control (for the most part).



Yea, control but it's a little bit more then that. You yard down hill the log runs ahead goes on the wrong side of a stump you have a hangup, virtually assured with a turn of logs. One of them is bound to run the wrong way and hang up or even run out of the choker. if you are yarding up hill the choker stays tight and follows along the intended path instaed of taking off where you don't want it. Also it is much easier to get lift yarding uphill. Keep the ends of the logs off the ground, bigger turns, more wood, less hangups, less work. Easier layouts too. A lot more work to pack rigging up a hill then down plus you usually have to rig tail trees on a down hill show and a haulback is mandatory, more rigging then shotgunning which you can do yarding uphill and it's faster too.
I assure you , you will get 2 to 3 times the amount of wood yarding uphill.


----------



## oregoncutter (Jul 15, 2009)

:agree2: Damn good explanation! right on the money. Anyone that's ever spent some time downhill logging, would like not to have to do it again. It also makes it real interesting when You pull a tailhold that's uphill from You, lines attached to a rootwad coming at You, powered by logs continuing on down, get You moving, and looking for that perfect stump.


----------



## Machinist Ralf (Jul 15, 2009)

I knew there must be a reason, they've beed doing it a long time surly they would have the bugs worked out by now.


----------



## Nosmo (Jul 15, 2009)

*Ax Men Show*

Craig Rygaard said while they were filming one show. The fastest way to go broke or have accidents is by down hill logging.

Nosmo


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jul 15, 2009)

I assumed that most of it was because of access. If you have your landing at the peak you can work the logs up to you from the north, south, east, and west, but if you set up at the bottom of the west slope you can only get the logs from that side before you had to break it all down, build a road, and head to the next slope. I could very well be wrong though.


----------



## Humptulips (Jul 16, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I assumed that most of it was because of access. If you have your landing at the peak you can work the logs up to you from the north, south, east, and west, but if you set up at the bottom of the west slope you can only get the logs from that side before you had to break it all down, build a road, and head to the next slope. I could very well be wrong though.



Moving the yarder is no big deal. Not to often you get a full 360 degree setting anyway. The roads are usually built so you can get the best logging which means uphill. The exceptions are because of rough terrain that makes the road building to expensive or property boundaries and access problems.


----------



## slowp (Jul 22, 2009)

oregoncutter said:


> :agree2: Damn good explanation! right on the money. Anyone that's ever spent some time downhill logging, would like not to have to do it again. It also makes it real interesting when You pull a tailhold that's uphill from You, lines attached to a rootwad coming at You, powered by logs continuing on down, get You moving, and looking for that perfect stump.




Here it is either downhill log or helilog on a lot of our units. Our people don't like roads built. Production is halved. But, with good lift, the results aren't too awful. I'm heading up to a downhill logging side today. It means a lot of packing of gear uphill for the first setting, after that the rigging can be sent up on the skyline. 

By the way, that "downhill yarding shown on Axemen looks like flat yarding to me. The units here have been steep. Very steep. I was planning on being asked to delete parts of units because there was no room for running out at the bottom. It went cutbank to the landing. But, the loggers logged it. Pretty scary to me. 

The yarder engineer said he's had logs hit the yarder (real, not faked like on TV) and one stood up leaning on the tube.


----------



## Curlycherry1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Decades ago I help do skidder logging on a nasty little side slope that a skidder could barely make it up. So we set out with a long cable to pull to the bottom and skid them out that way. With the second draw of the skidder we had pretty well figured out that it was a VERY bad idea. Once any log was lose it came down the hill and it ALWAYS went to the opposite side of any tree between where it was and the skidder, thus hanging up. 

We ditched that plan and cut a skidder trail along the top of the ridge and winched to that ridge and then skidded down to the landing. No problems, no hassles and no rolling logs. Winching and skidding down hill was such a bad idea that we figured it out in less than 15 minutes, which means it was stupid in epic proportions.


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 21, 2009)

Curlycherry1 said:


> Decades ago I help do skidder logging on a nasty little side slope that a skidder could barely make it up. So we set out with a long cable to pull to the bottom and skid them out that way. With the second draw of the skidder we had pretty well figured out that it was a VERY bad idea. Once any log was lose it came down the hill and it ALWAYS went to the opposite side of any tree between where it was and the skidder, thus hanging up.
> 
> We ditched that plan and cut a skidder trail along the top of the ridge and winched to that ridge and then skidded down to the landing. No problems, no hassles and no rolling logs. Winching and skidding down hill was such a bad idea that we figured it out in less than 15 minutes, which means it was stupid in epic proportions.



There isn't much scarier than a piece of equipment that doesn't like to go uphill.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jun 12, 2015)

2dogs said:


> There isn't much scarier than a piece of equipment that doesn't like to go uphill.


There's a lot scarier like one sliding backwards down hill and over a cliff


----------

