# Widow maker-how would you do it?



## zogger (Jan 20, 2011)

Note: I am not going to take this down, this is just an intellectual exercise, a "what if" deal, to help me learn. I don't need this down, but it is a nice puzzler for me. The tree itself is most of the way up a pretty steep slope. natural and decent lean is uphill towards the light. It is close enough to the top that if it was straight felled the natural lean way it would mash the fence along the dirt road, so that's out. Downhill against the lean is a lot more open, not perfect, but looks doable..except for the widowmaker hung above. I just do not want to cut that with that thing overhead..nope. It looks to still be attached a little at the tree and is wedged good at the tree next to it. OK...if you had no big equipment to get there, no long cable to pull it down, etc, how would you go about getting this down, the widowmaker and the tree itself. Though I guess once the branch is down just wedges and fell it.

thoughts that went through my head

Go to hollywood, track down that back pack electric chaingun used in the movie Predator..and have at it from a safe distance..that might work..well, hellllya it would work..fun, too

climb tree, hack away at it with my black and decker cordless jigsaw with the aggressive six inch ultra ripper blade...

hmmm, seem to have run outta ideas

If I had a long enough cable, I could rope it up over that, run it down the hill and snatch it down with the tractor..but I don't. So, how to do this cut? If it makes any diff, this is pointy leaf oak, I am guessing red oak, real common here. Nice split trunk, beefy enough tree, you can see some scale in the pics with one of the dogs next to it. Pic six shows it wedged at the other tree, the Y goes on both sides. The branch is about guessing four inches thick at that y where it is caught.

I'd take it if it was easier for the wood, but I have so much to choose from this one can just hang naturally for a spell. Just wondering if I ever really have to do one like this.


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## TMFARM 2009 (Jan 20, 2011)

i would just use the forked one to drop it out then take the other down also...but i like cutting and dropping trees like this for fun,lol


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 20, 2011)

Ever heard the phrase, " Dime holding up a dollar"?
Jeff :glasses-nerdy:


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## ropensaddle (Jan 20, 2011)

I would shoot limb with big shot tie rope and yank the widow down and then shoot the remaining spar and fell it.
Tops 45 minutes


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## ddhlakebound (Jan 21, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> I would shoot limb with big shot tie rope and yank the widow down and then shoot the remaining spar and fell it.
> Tops 45 minutes



Yup, exactly what I was thinking reading it and looking at the pics. Quick and safe.


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Jan 21, 2011)

*widow maker*

Ya have other trees around it to climb. Then swing over to your problem tree and peace it out.
Or do like the others have said with a hand line. And pull from a safe distance.


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## tomtrees58 (Jan 21, 2011)

if you don't climb call some onehone:


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## lxt (Jan 21, 2011)

Ah....put the 30ft ext. ladder up against that puppy & with the rented extension gas powered pole saw......just reach up & let er fly....LOL

*NOTE: I watched a guy do almost what you are asking with just what I mentioned above..................IT DID NOT TURN OUT GOOD!*

If you have no experience................Call a good, reputable company!! please.



LXT.................


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2011)

In your situation with a lack of equipment and options your best bet is to call a tree service w/ climber and let them handle it. 

If I was in your situation and didn't have my gear for what ever reason I would notch and backcut the co-dom leaving just enough hinge that it's ready to fall but won't go over on it's own. Then lay the other tree into it keeping yourself on the "safe" side away from the hanger. As soon as she starts coming over get the hell outta there and watch 'em both crash to the ground. This is not an option for an unskilled cutter though. Seriously, your best bet is to flip a climber buddy a hundo and have him knock it out in a half hour or so.


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## flushcut (Jan 21, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> I would shoot limb with big shot tie rope and yank the widow down and then shoot the remaining spar and fell it.
> Tops 45 minutes


 
:agree2: Could have not said it any better.


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## TreeAce (Jan 21, 2011)

C4


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## treeman75 (Jan 21, 2011)

I would try 3 or 4 poles first 5-10 min. If I cant reach it with the poles bust out the throw bag to set a rope with a running bowline.


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## Greener (Jan 22, 2011)

TMFARM 2009 said:


> i would just use the forked one to drop it out then take the other down also...but i like cutting and dropping trees like this for fun,lol



No brainer. Ropensaddle's got it. Rope the widowmaker, stand clear and pull the direction where that branch has the least obstruction (from photo 1 it appears to be to the uphill side). Then proceed with the felling.


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## rarefish383 (Jan 22, 2011)

You said you don't need it. There's plenty of other trees for firewood. It's in the woods. Just keep walking around it, and one day in a couple years, it will be on the ground. Then you can fell it without risking life or limb. HaHa I made a pun. 

If I were there to see it in person, what I "might" do is, get a pull line about 20-30 feet up the trunk. Run it to the tractor 150 feet away and put some tension on it, don't start to bow the tree. Make a good open notch, 45 degrees, start your back cut slowly, leave a lot of hinge, 2" on both sides, get back on the tractor and pull it over and let it rip. But, then you might hang it up in another tree, I don't know.

I would do the same as Ropensaddle. Just in case you don't know what a "big shot" is, it's not an arbor cannon, it's a giant sling shot to shoot a light line high in a tree. Then you pull a heavier line through and tie a running bowline in it and pull it tight, hook it to the tractor and snatch the hanger out. Then shoot the line up in the tree for a pull line and fell the tree. IMHO, it's always better to use a pull line than wedges, Joe.


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## zogger (Jan 22, 2011)

*thanks for all the comments*

No, I don't need this tree at all and am going to leave it. There's lots of these sort of trees and blowdowns and whatnot around here, just wanted a few opinions on it as a theoretical exercise. Just was walking the dogs and snapped a few pics because I am always looking for oddball stuff like that around here, possible targets of opportunity later on. I get lots, so no biggee on that one.

My real first inclination was the throwline and tug it down. I have one old climbing rope (left over high rise safety rope from BIL windowwashing days) I have used a few times to put tension on some larger treed when felling, for accuracy of fall, etc, but only use it for emergencies or something I really want or looks to be a problem because it is dead next to a fence line, etc. Usually I use a comealong with some chains to give a scosh of tension, because I work by myself. I don't over crank it of course, just some tension the way I want it to go. I don't *like* to do that, think it is dangerous,well, I know it is, but have done it a few times when I had to, example, a big dead oak that the cows liked to hang out under for some reason, fulla widowmaker dead branches. I knew that one needed to come down, worked on it a week or so, wedges plus long line for tension, the main trunk is still laying there, got cords out of the branches and what rounds I could cut with a 55 rancher with an 18" bar. When I couldn't get them cutting from both sides..quit... When the line was on, I kept the tree between me and it. It fell just perfectly by the by. Took a lot of notching to get it to go though the base was so big. I spent 98% of my time looking UP on that one.

Mostly, I only cut and clear fence lines and the occasional standing dead that is bigger, and thin out sweetgum a little, all easy drops mostly. I wind up getting most of my firewood this way, so it is a good deal for me.

As to climbing and cutting, only a few times have I done this, although I still have a seat harness and tool safety strap from working on high rise steel, scaffolding, a little. No spurs though, a few various biners and so on, and no pulleys/snatchblocks or ascenders or stuff like that. Dohave a figure 8 had fun with learning to rappel. Some place I have a pic of me hanging 200 foot up in the breeze eating lunch... I could run point back then with 9-9 standards..not bad fer a little guy....doubt I could heft one today.

I did have a tophandle, old homie, but right now it ain't running, although I have been half looking for a more modern one locally used. 

Got no fear of heights or climbing, just a full 100% respect for the dangers involved and skills necessary to do work like that. And no work from a ladder, ever, not on trees, I jiss ain't that dumb. Pole pruner (cheap, some poulan cheapo still works) and stand back. Closest is I might back the tractor up close and raise the work box on the back and stand on that to get a little more reach, and take it off a small piece at a time.

Hey, as an aside, any of you guys look at the hitachi tophandles? They are quite cheap new and have that real long warranty. Not for day to day heavy pro work, but just to have one, plus backup little saw. No way afford a stihl or husky new, not now..so it would be echo, tanaka or hitachi I guess closer to a budget. I have a whopper pine next to the house I am paranoid about now since the mini tornado damage. Zero branches over the house, just close enough to be a worry with the right wind direction. All the chunks could just be bombed. Have to guess, 60-70 feet, split after the first five foot into almost identical trunks. Base diameter around 30 inches.

The huge oak in the front yard, a near "champion" tree, the owner has already contracted with some friends of his who do treework on the weekends and have a big bucket truck. I have no say in this matter, all his gig and cash. It is going to get a big prune. I have no idea whatsoever how good these guys are, or if they know what they are doing on a tree this size, to keep from permanently damaging it. I think they said they had a fifty foot reach, don't remember now. The tree musta been here since the civil war at least, it is a bonafide whopper. Supposedly it got heavy pruned like 25 years ago, hard for me to tell where that pruning action was though just standing looking at it now.

Pic of that oak tree right at the top of the first page of my flickr account, you can see our cabin off to the side for scale. 

Flickr: zogRman's Photostream

I seriously doubt those boys bucket truck gonna reach way up there...looks to me over 70 foot easy.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 22, 2011)

Lol give us an after picture and we will tell you if they were hacks! I bet they may have topping on their minds and that tree from what I can see needs minimal pruning. Weak attachments crown cleaning is all it needs.


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## zogger (Jan 22, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol give us an after picture and we will tell you if they were hacks! I bet they may have topping on their minds and that tree from what I can see needs minimal pruning. Weak attachments crown cleaning is all it needs.


 

double ha, I bet you are right! I've climbed half way up into it and around the branches before, just freehand climbing for a hoot. The owner is worried about it but I ain't, it is too healthy. I've roped down a few hangers from it before, that's it. That tree hardly lost a tiny branch when the tornado hit that knocked that multi thousand lb red oak branch from another tree right into our roof and living room..that's why I ain't afraid of it, But it isn't my call. It's my air conditioner tree, who knows how much they will bork it up and leave me sweating next sumer. That's all we have, that tree to the south and some window fans.

I screwed up on the description of the pine though, the split starts lots higher. I'll snao some pics from various angles and put them up in this thread tomorrow, just taking a break now, have to go clear more fence line. I need something to clear privet forests, man that stuff is nasty. Just use my saw, I have tried everything else, it just don't work, the saw does but gets plugged up sometimes. Have to get an area done before monday so a school bus can turn around there, a dead end driveway backs up to our fence. Ain't been touched in years..the best part is the area isn't real large, start on it this afternoon, finish it tomorrow. Just came back from looking at it to see what tools I might need. Only a few little wild choke cherrys look to be anything to scrounge firewood from. I hates doing that chainsawing down at the ground brush clearing, but only thing I got to do that with. Little bit too big to bush hog it, baby trees here and there mixed in, unless you had one of those huge front mowers that the powerline guys use, which I sure don't got.

I do have a real old spiffy walk behind self powered 36" mini hog, absolutely no discernible brand name on it, bought it used and got it running right where I bought it, drove it up on a rollback and got it home. But the engine is whipped, the wiring is whipped, etc. Used it for years though, it is in my pile of "whenever I get the money for parts I'll rebuild it" stuff. Way too cool to throw away or part out. One of those old briggs engines looks to weigh the same as my little truck engine...got a "starterator" on it, too, only one I have ever owned. That was the ticket for mowing around trees, even on hillsides, where you couldn't get a bushhog and big tractor in, and blackberry thickets and so on, worked great.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 22, 2011)

zogger said:


> double ha, I bet you are right! I've climbed half way up into it and around the branches before, just freehand climbing for a hoot. The owner is worried about it but I ain't, it is too healthy. I've roped down a few hangers from it before, that's it. That tree hardly lost a tiny branch when the tornado hit that knocked that multi thousand lb red oak branch from another tree right into our roof and living room..that's why I ain't afraid of it, But it isn't my call. It's my air conditioner tree, who knows how much they will bork it up and leave me sweating next sumer. That's all we have, that tree to the south and some window fans.
> 
> I screwed up on the description of the pine though, the split starts lots higher. I'll snao some pics from various angles and put them up in this thread tomorrow, just taking a break now, have to go clear more fence line. I need something to clear privet forests, man that stuff is nasty. Just use my saw, I have tried everything else, it just don't work, the saw does but gets plugged up sometimes. Have to get an area done before monday so a school bus can turn around there, a dead end driveway backs up to our fence. Ain't been touched in years..the best part is the area isn't real large, start on it this afternoon, finish it tomorrow. Just came back from looking at it to see what tools I might need. Only a few little wild choke cherrys look to be anything to scrounge firewood from. I hates doing that chainsawing down at the ground brush clearing, but only thing I got to do that with. Little bit too big to bush hog it, baby trees here and there mixed in, unless you had one of those huge front mowers that the powerline guys use, which I sure don't got.
> 
> I do have a real old spiffy walk behind self powered 36" mini hog, absolutely no discernible brand name on it, bought it used and got it running right where I bought it, drove it up on a rollback and got it home. But the engine is whipped, the wiring is whipped, etc. Used it for years though, it is in my pile of "whenever I get the money for parts I'll rebuild it" stuff. Way too cool to throw away or part out. One of those old briggs engines looks to weigh the same as my little truck engine...got a "starterator" on it, too, only one I have ever owned. That was the ticket for mowing around trees, even on hillsides, where you couldn't get a bushhog and big tractor in, and blackberry thickets and so on, worked great.


 
Have you tried remedy? Mixed with diesel spray on bases and then in six months just push them over!


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## zogger (Jan 22, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Have you tried remedy? Mixed with diesel spray on bases and then in six months just push them over!



Ya, we spray around here, but this area is way the other side of the farm where the chicken farmers hang out, and they didn't spray it, so I gets to go clear it by hand. I work the beefers a mile away but get volunteered for the oddball outside jobs. I wasn't even aware of it until last night, that it was a problem. Have to have it done by monday because the county bitxxxd about it that their lame bus driver couldn't trn around anymore there (dead end) and they are bringing a load of gravel in monday sometime. I'm just gonna pitch all the brush back over he fence for now, come back later with a loader or something to clean it up..the chipper is down as well and I have no idea on fixing those things. Couple of his other gooballs borrowed it, running swell for me for years, I get it back, second chunbk of pine through it next time I went to use it something went BANG inside and now no workee. those guys musta beat the snot out of it. Engines fires well,cummins diesel, the drum doesn't turn anymore. I should maybe post about that on the equipment forum...I called the manufacturer, vermeer, all they would tell me is bring it in for a looksee, 500 clams just for an estimate. Owner balked, it sits now. I used it a lot before, with a dump truck and the steel chip box on the back. Real handy for what I do. So he takes the dump truck away from me, f450, pulls the box off, and now the same crew of abusers is beating on that truck. They just tear crap up. Man, I protect my two deutz tractors from letting them boneheads use them, I squawk bigtime whenever the owner wants me to give one up for the day, I just dread seeing what shape they come back in. 

I'm off, back to work....


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