# Big egos and small minds



## pdqdl (Aug 8, 2011)

This forum used to be one of my favorite places to hang out, but it seems to have degenerated into a forum for people with huge egos and no respect for anyone else to come in and throw poorly phrased insults at each other.

This is the forum for Commercial Tree Care, guys. It's purpose is not so that you can find someone else in your trade to insult, it is not here for you to work out your problems on your perceived competitors, it is presumably a site where like-minded individuals can find each other and share knowledge and experience common to our trade.

There is no reason for every thread to devolve into the invective, illogical rhetoric, and blathering drivel that so often occurs. Quit reading insult into every post, and ignore those posts that are openly intended to aggravate you. The rest of us really don't want to read about your opinion of some other participant in this forum.

I like a good squabble as well as the next guy, but I really am tired of seeing it in almost every thread.

PLEASE! At least TRY to keep it professional.




Thank you!


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## deevo (Aug 8, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> This forum used to be one of my favorite places to hang out, but it seems to have degenerated into a forum for people with huge egos and no respect for anyone else to come in and throw poorly phrased insults at each other.
> 
> This is the forum for Commercial Tree Care, guys. It's purpose is not so that you can find someone else in your trade to insult, it is not here for you to work out your problems on your perceived competitors, it is presumably a site where like-minded individuals can find each other and share knowledge and experience common to our trade.
> 
> ...


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 8, 2011)

That's great. This is the kind of mind set that has inspired me work hard to earn and provide with integrity vs. ego.


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## ripplerider (Aug 9, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> This forum used to be one of my favorite places to hang out, but it seems to have degenerated into a forum for people with huge egos and no respect for anyone else to come in and throw poorly phrased insults at each other.
> 
> This is the forum for Commercial Tree Care, guys. It's purpose is not so that you can find someone else in your trade to insult, it is not here for you to work out your problems on your perceived competitors, it is presumably a site where like-minded individuals can find each other and share knowledge and experience common to our trade.
> 
> ...


 
I heard that. I discovered this site while recovering from a bad fall and 2 subsequent surgeries. Really did me good to hear from people in the business. Back then I didnt know if I'd ever work again. I didnt post much as I had no fresh tales to tell. Luckily I was able to return to work but I still hardly ever post because of the very stuff you mentioned. If I wanted to fight I'd go to a bar or call my ex. This place has sure changed. Whatever happened to Clearance? I enjoyed his posts even if he was a little close-minded. I post a lot on hunting and paddling forums and it's totally different. I've made friends and connections for life on those sites. Here I pretty much get put down.


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## ripplerider (Aug 9, 2011)

By the way dont expect me not to take up for myself at least once when called an "internet jackass, know nothing wannabe" out of the blue.


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## Blakesmaster (Aug 9, 2011)

ripplerider said:


> I heard that. I discovered this site while recovering from a bad fall and 2 subsequent surgeries. Really did me good to hear from people in the business. Back then I didnt know if I'd ever work again. I didnt post much as I had no fresh tales to tell. Luckily I was able to return to work but I still hardly ever post because of the very stuff you mentioned. If I wanted to fight I'd go to a bar or call my ex. This place has sure changed. Whatever happened to Clearance? I enjoyed his posts even if he was a little close-minded. I post a lot on hunting and paddling forums and it's totally different. I've made friends and connections for life on those sites. Here I pretty much get put down.


 

Stick around. You'll make friends here too. I've been busted on up and down these forums and it don't really matter. Some guys are cool. Some guys are ####s. Some guys who are ####s are also cool. Made some great friends and serious enhancements to my biz because of this site.


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## Toddppm (Aug 9, 2011)

This site hasn't changed a bit in all the time I've been here. It ebbs and flows like a stormfront or something. Not trying to get poetic or anything:msp_w00t: There's some good stuff to learn from alot of different perspectives, people come and go. Even the jabs back and forth are useful against my friends sometimes


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## beastmaster (Aug 9, 2011)

I think some baiting goes on some times, don't feed the trolls and don't bite that baited hook. It's natural to have options and to sometimes argue over some point, That is what makes this interesting. I only learned how to use a computer about 5 years ago(give or take) I hardly knew any other climbers, or people who were interested in trees and tree work like I am. Finding out there are "others ", like my self has really been great. I have benefited, and learned and improved considerably being a member of this site. I have made some great friends, and business ventures through this site. There are many people here I have never meant, but feel I know them, and think would be friends if we were to meet.
Things have changed in this industry over the last 4 years or so, and not necessarily for the better. People are emotional, and angry. That being said we shouldn't let a few #### stirrers stir the pot. I'm sure all our Mom's told us as kids,"if you can't say something nice, don't say nothen at all", don't let our selfs get manipulated, into being something were not, by a_ _holes trying to get a raise out of us.
Don't get played, and don't react and the game players will get bored and go somewhere else. Easier said then done I know. Beastmaster


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## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 10, 2011)

ripplerider said:


> By the way dont expect me not to take up for myself at least once when called an "internet jackass, know nothing wannabe" out of the blue.


 
I expect you to ignore the idiots, unless it is a witty rejoinder that does not pull the thread down to their level.

This has been a crusade of mine for way too long now. Too often the discussions either devolve into flame wars or mutual admiration drivel.


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## pdqdl (Aug 10, 2011)

ripplerider said:


> By the way dont expect me not to take up for myself at least once when called an "internet jackass, know nothing wannabe" out of the blue.


 
I couldn't agree more. 

But at the same time you are "taking up for yourself", I think it is only necessary to point out the error the offending poster was making, perhaps mentioning the need to be a bit more civil, and then letting it go.

Besides, it's a lot more satisfying to get a polite retraction with one post, than it is to attempt revenge with 20 posts in a never-ending flame war.


(BTW, I know what thread you are talking about. I thought that was out of line too. That was a very good example of a big ego and a small mind, taking cheap shots at someone else that didn't deserve it.)


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## Job Corps Tree (Aug 10, 2011)

*Big Ego'sand Small Minds*

If it Don't Hurt or cost you Money Who Cares what is said!


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## ripplerider (Aug 10, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> But at the same time you are "taking up for yourself", I think it is only necessary to point out the error the offending poster was making, perhaps mentioning the need to be a bit more civil, and then letting it go.
> 
> ...


 
I pretty much thought that's what I did. If you had'nt started this thread I wouldnt have re-visited the scene. Thanks for bringing this up though, I think it needed said. JPS, I've always respected your posts. But wait till someone talks to you like that and see if you ignore it. Enough said.


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## tree MDS (Aug 10, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> But at the same time you are "taking up for yourself", I think it is only necessary to point out the error the offending poster was making, perhaps mentioning the need to be a bit more civil, and then letting it go.
> 
> ...


 
FTR: I wasn't the only one taking shots at him.. mine was just a little cheaper! lol.

The whole thread just reeked of greenhorn... and with all the trolls around lately pissing everybody off, well who wouldn't be a little agrravated! Then FTA kicks in some with his dumb ass... well, was what it was.

I made a mistake by assuming you were a "know nothing internet troll wannabee" ripplerider, sorry again! Jesus..


I thought we made better and moved on. Get over it!


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## pdqdl (Aug 10, 2011)

Shucks! Things are getting better right away. Even ol' tree MDS squared up rather nicely.

The flip side of this "acting professional" concept is that once someone has apologized, we should accept the apology and not keep picking at everything they post. Even I have been known to get thin skinned every now and then, so it's not like I am perfect, either.


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## pdqdl (Aug 10, 2011)

Job Corps Tree said:


> If it Don't Hurt or cost you Money Who Cares what is said!


 
The constant bickering wastes my time, and reduces my enjoyment of the forum. I have gotten a lot of benefit and knowledge out of this site, and I am trying to keep it from decaying any further.


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## tree MDS (Aug 10, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> Shucks! Things are getting better right away. Even ol' tree MDS squared up rather nicely.
> 
> The flip side of this "acting professional" concept is that once someone has apologized, we should accept the apology and not keep picking at everything they post. Even I have been known to get thin skinned every now and then, so it's not like I am perfect, either.



You're just as bad as the rest of us in your own right! Don't think you're fooling anybody here! You try and get your jabs in by using a more cerebral (questionably), less obvious means, is all.. IMO.

You good people though!


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## pdqdl (Aug 10, 2011)

I try very hard to stick to JPS's idea: "witty rejoinder", & there is no doubt that I play a pretty good game of one-upmanship when debating how something should be done. I would like to argue, however, that I try to never call folks names. I confess that sometimes I will shamelessly try to make them feel like idiots by pointing out their errors. I guess that isn't very nice, either, but I don't think I make a sport out of it.

Honestly though, except for one time, I have never gotten into a flame war. When somebody picks a name calling fight with me, I just tell them I don't argue with idiots. I usually post this well known quote: 

_"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."_
(Erroneously attributed to Mark Twain)


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 10, 2011)

I am always nice :msp_biggrin:
Jeff


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## treeman75 (Aug 10, 2011)

I have learned alot from this site also! I am alot more safety minded than I was a couple years ago. I have the study guide for my certification and plan on testing this winter. Its the arborists on this site that have helped me make that decision. I dont chat much but i read alot of what every one says. I want to thank every one for what i have learned the last couple years.
Thank You!


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 10, 2011)

Let me first off apologize to those that I have offended ............. For not offending you more so that you would get it and stop being a bunch of ####ies , I mean really ........ I am not sorry for offending anyone ... Except Jeff because after reading and learning alittle about him I realized he has two hobbies , lobbing strawberries at a turtle and hanging here ......


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## Nailsbeats (Aug 10, 2011)

Good thread, it needed to be said. When people are allowed to go off on others with blatent disrespect, on lookers with quality input just shy away, and the forum itself suffers the biggest loss. 

Nobody wins in these chest beating contests, it's like taking gold at the special olympics, it's only cool to you.:msp_w00t:


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## husabud (Aug 10, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> I am always nice :msp_biggrin:
> Jeff


:msp_thumbsup:opcorn:


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 10, 2011)

Nailsbeats said:


> Good thread, it needed to be said. When people are allowed to go off on others with blatent disrespect, on lookers with quality input just shy away, and the forum itself suffers the biggest loss.
> 
> Nobody wins in these chest beating contests, it's like taking gold at the special olympics, it's only cool to you.:msp_w00t:


 
You OD, WLL and a few others youst to run me down regularly , so please........don't even try it and as far as the OP is concerned well we all know him by now and I am sure his ego is still a bit bruised from the saw thread seems fishy how its OK for some to be harsh when it suits them or when they have someone between the cross hairs and can't help to take the shot , if that is the special olympics than the A S boys and gals have plenty of practice and surley will take the gold ....


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## Nailsbeats (Aug 10, 2011)

treeclimber101 said:


> You OD, WLL and a few others youst to run me down regularly , so please........don't even try it and as far as the OP is concerned well we all know him by now and I am sure his ego is still a bit bruised from the saw thread seems fishy how its OK for some to be harsh when it suits them or when they have someone between the cross hairs and can't help to take the shot , if that is the special olympics than the A S boys and gals have plenty of practice and surley will take the gold ....



101, I don't recall that ever being the case on my end. If it was, then I apologize here and now, because I don't have any beef with you.


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 10, 2011)

Nailsbeats said:


> 101, I don't recall that ever being the case on my end. If it was, then I apologize here and now, because I don't have any beef with you.


 
I am not saying beef because really its doubtful that were gonna fight out back in the alley right , but comments have been made from alot of guys and I am not even the slightest bit actually mad I just think if ya said then own it thats all , But your right were cool really ...


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 10, 2011)

Nailsbeats said:


> 101, I don't recall that ever being the case on my end. If it was, then I apologize here and now, because I don't have any beef with you.


 
I have more of a problem with the OP who has on many occasions has not only provoked but has also drawn out this behavior that offends him now , I came here 2 years ago after reading the Nosak thread and this place hasn't changed a bit just the players .... I guess we should all just sit around and tell each other how great we all are ..... I hope that TV comes back and even OD they are arguably the reason that this section of the site has so many posts


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## pdqdl (Aug 10, 2011)

101, I've been ignoring (mostly) your digs at me for over a year. I just figure that you keep trying to knock me off of some pedestal that you think I am on. Thank you for the grudgingly given respect.

Since this thread is all about eliminating the petty bickering that occurs, I will apologize to you right here and now for any offense that I may have ever aimed at you. I further resolve that I will not pick on you for any composition errors, nor even for any really bad ideas you might propose that I vehemently disagree with.

If you study the Stolen Saw thread, you will find that I did not take any offense at your repeated attempts to get me riled. With respect to that thread, I never even got scratched by anyone who attempted to paint me as the bad guy. If I didn't already expect that kind of response, I wouldn't have posted it. _By the way, the detectives told me they would return the confiscated saw to me this week, as the owner has not claimed it, and the prosecution cannot proceed._


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 10, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> 101, I've been ignoring (mostly) your digs at me for over a year. I just figure that you keep trying to knock me off of some pedestal that you think I am on. Thank you for the grudgingly given respect.
> 
> Since this thread is all about eliminating the petty bickering that occurs, I will apologize to you right here and now for any offense that I may have ever aimed at you. I further resolve that I will not pick on you for any composition errors, nor even for any really bad ideas you might propose that I vehemently disagree with.
> 
> ...


 Pedestal ..... I could actually care less about you either way other than, your this and than that ... But actually i think it may be the pedestal that you put yourself on trying to convince the rests of us that you are a bit better , just saying and your right no need to bicker about we will have to agree to disagree ...


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## Nailsbeats (Aug 10, 2011)

treeclimber101 said:


> I have more of a problem with the OP who has on many occasions has not only provoked but has also drawn out this behavior that offends him now , I came here 2 years ago after reading the Nosak thread and this place hasn't changed a bit just the players .... I guess we should all just sit around and tell each other how great we all are ..... I hope that TV comes back and even OD they are arguably the reason that this section of the site has so many posts


 
The truth is that there are a lot of quality tree guys on this site and I count you among them as well as PQDL, OD and WLL (R.I.P) for names sake.

The wisdom and insights that can be shared are just too often muddied by vulgarities and personal rips that are well over the line of respect for each other.

I personally haven't been putting up more stuff because my camera is currently out of commision and without it I don't feel the substance is where it should be, thus not worth discussing.


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 10, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> i am always nice :msp_biggrin:
> Jeff


 
lol


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## the Aerialist (Aug 11, 2011)

*I came here to learn ~ Not to fight ...*

My appearance here has caused a shatstorm of abuse and less than civil discourse. I've given it back in full measure and for that I apologize to all for being dragged down into the back alley brawls that I've participated in.

I post my out-takes that show some of my less than stellar work because I learn from the critiques I get, not because I want to start flame wars. Here's one now:

[video=youtube;kypHmmh0WiU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kypHmmh0WiU[/video]

Any tips on how to avoid that?


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 11, 2011)

Butt tie and don't cut above you.
Jeff


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## beastmaster (Aug 11, 2011)

should of cut from other side. Stuff happens. I took a chunk a few days ago pushed if off and it fell on my foot between ankle and steel toe, while on gaffs. Still have a bruise. It's the easy ones that get you. Beastmaster


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## the Aerialist (Aug 11, 2011)

*Good advice from both of you ...*

It seemed trivial and I took a short cut. Actually the bridge of my climbing harness caught it, not me, so I got off easy. In this business even the small stuff can hurt you. It pays to be vigilent.


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## Bermie (Aug 11, 2011)

Flame wars and outright disrespectful postings are the reason I took a holiday from AS.
I popped back in to see what was going on and was happy to see some good discussions happening again.

Doing what we do in such a high risk occupation is going to result in some strong opinions, but the strongest in my mind are:

The ability to agree to disagree, 
To recognize and accept criticism when it has your safety in mind, separate the language from the concern
To be able to take some flame if you give it...BUT..to know when enough is enough and not respond like with like when someone is way out in left field...been a bit guilty here
To man up and apologize when recognizing that offence has been given,
To come in here with a reasonable level of tolerance for locker room BS

Sometimes, simply due to our differences in personality and experience, we do not recognize that offence has been given, scathing remarks taken easily by one person are hits to the gut for another, postings on the internet are devoid of visual cues unless you pepper them with smilies, and nuances of tone of voice are almost impossible to convey, so you do need to come in with a BS meter and a bit of a thicker skin!

'Kay, that's the emotional girly perspective, lemme go run a chainsaw :msp_smile:


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## pdqdl (Aug 11, 2011)

Don't you generally have trouble "manning up" ? :msp_rolleyes:

I'm so pleased to see you coming back to the fold. You generally have some really spot-on commentary.


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## Bermie (Aug 11, 2011)

I can 'man up' with the best of ya! 

Someone has to be 'den sista' from time to time. (no way am I going to say den mother!)


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 11, 2011)

You know there must be about three kinds of posters in this forum.

1. Has a decently formed character, and speaks up a lot.

2. Has character in ruins, and speaks out a lot.

3. Doesn't speak out, and doesn't practice in order to ever be any good at it. 


This thread says it all. It says exactly who is who, and the number of guests compared to posters here says how many people are just in the audience. 

This place is like a stirred up box of sightless kittens compared to some of the chat forums out there:hmm3grin2orange: Well, ok...this box hosts many more gentlemen per rabid squirrel climbing round in here than other sites, so it's well worth joining everyday. You make the forum what you want it to be. :msp_thumbup:


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 11, 2011)

Bermie said:


> I can 'man up' with the best of ya!
> 
> Someone has to be 'den sista' from time to time. (no way am I going to say den mother!)


 
More like den monkeys, but....... :monkey:


never mind. Nothing is ever that simple.


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## Pelorus (Aug 11, 2011)

"_the number of guests compared to posters here says how many people are just in the audience."_

This newbie (not to the industry; just this forum) prefers to keep a low profile for now and just be a spectator in the bleachers. There's a couple of you folks who appear to truly HATE each other! even if it is a fine line between love and hate.

As time goes by, IF I can get the hairs on the back of my neck to stop standing up, I'll post some pics, or whatever.


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## ripplerider (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm sorry if I appeared somewhat thin-skinned in a recent thread. A couple of remarks just struck me the wrong way at a time when I had a lot of worries on my mind. Should have just shrugged it off, ignored it, or come up with a witty reply. I play small-stakes poker fairly regularly with a group of guys around here. We dont play for the money really, though it's nice to drag a decent pot; we mostly play for the opportunity to give each other a hard time. The term "S.O.B." gets tossed around pretty regularly with no hard feelings. But if an utter stranger were to call one of us that, we'd feel differently. Maybe it's a southern thing (don't get me wrong, I'm not one of these "South's gonna do it again types." Not that's there's anything wrong with that. Please don't get mad at me if you fit that description...go ahead, get mad if you want, just don't call me a wannabe. Unless you want to. By the way A.A., you could just step back. Or reach out on it and hinge it over, then cut it off. Did that sound stupid? Please don't call me a noob... unless you want to.


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 11, 2011)

aerial_arborist said:


> my appearance here has caused a shatstorm of abuse and less than civil discourse. I've given it back in full measure and for that i apologize to all for being dragged down into the back alley brawls that i've participated in.
> 
> I post my out-takes that show some of my less than stellar work because i learn from the critiques i get, not because i want to start flame wars. Here's one now:
> 
> ...


 move


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 11, 2011)

This thread is through. It served its purpose.

You two guys speak more from now on, and let the carnival do all of the mean doggin' for you. :msp_thumbup:


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 11, 2011)

ripplerider said:


> I'm sorry if I appeared somewhat thin-skinned in a recent thread. A couple of remarks just struck me the wrong way at a time when I had a lot of worries on my mind. Should have just shrugged it off, ignored it, or come up with a witty reply. I play small-stakes poker fairly regularly with a group of guys around here. We dont play for the money really, though it's nice to drag a decent pot; we mostly play for the opportunity to give each other a hard time. The term "S.O.B." gets tossed around pretty regularly with no hard feelings. But if an utter stranger were to call one of us that, we'd feel differently. Maybe it's a southern thing (don't get me wrong, I'm not one of these "South's gonna do it again types." Not that's there's anything wrong with that. Please don't get mad at me if you fit that description...go ahead, get mad if you want, just don't call me a wannabe. Unless you want to. By the way A.A., you could just step back. Or reach out on it and hinge it over, then cut it off. Did that sound stupid? Please don't call me a noob... unless you want to.


 
OMG!
If I was your wife,
I would Diss -!
Jeff


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## the Aerialist (Aug 12, 2011)

*Save your Confederate money boys, the South shall rise again!*



ripplerider said:


> ... The term "S.O.B." gets tossed around pretty regularly with no hard feelings. But if an utter stranger were to call one of us that, we'd feel differently. Maybe it's a southern thing (don't get me wrong... Not that's there's anything wrong with that. Please don't get mad at me if you fit that description...go ahead, get mad if you want, just don't call me a wannabe. Unless you want to. By the way A.A., you could just step back. Or reach out on it and hinge it over, then cut it off. Did that sound stupid? Please don't call me a noob... unless you want to.



A drop cut on it would have worked too, but it was over a small fence which is why I hinged it down slowly.

I went to prep school (Castle Heights Military Academy) in Lebanon, TN so I get the Southern Gentleman thing ripplerider, and we all take a lot of ribbing from our friends. I guess I just didn't feel like I was with "friends" here and got rubbed the wrong way by some. People don't talk that way to my face and it's not because I come off as some kind of bad arse (although I can be) or am some awesome physical specimen (I'm a little old man of 64).

I'm gonna try to be the gentleman that I am, and rise above the bullpucky that gets flung around here by a few failed personalities who do most of the flinging.


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## ripplerider (Aug 12, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> OMG!
> If I was your wife,
> I would Diss -!
> Jeff


 
Diss what? Diss leave? Beat her to it-brought my son with me. Oh you mean disrespect me? Got plenty of that. Everyone she comes into contact with gets a boatload of that. Gotta go, big white oak's coming down this morning. Mucho clean-up.


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## Rftreeman (Aug 12, 2011)

I have never said anything out of line to anyone here but I have typed a few well deserved insults..........lmao...


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## tree MDS (Aug 13, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> OMG!
> If I was your wife,
> I would Diss -!
> Jeff



Lol. I think in the interest of fairness, we should be able to "dislike" a posters comments, as well as like. Just a thought here..

"tree MDS dislikes this"... that would be so awesome!


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 13, 2011)

Good idea, and I was just messing with him.
Jeff


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## treemandan (Aug 13, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> My appearance here has caused a shatstorm of abuse and less than civil discourse. I've given it back in full measure and for that I apologize to all for being dragged down into the back alley brawls that I've participated in.
> 
> I post my out-takes that show some of my less than stellar work because I learn from the critiques I get, not because I want to start flame wars. Here's one now:
> 
> ...




Yeah, cut it with a 44?:msp_rolleyes:

Jeez, yer slow. Sorry to say but I saw what I saw. See? Your reaction time ( not to mention judgement ) appears to be lacking. You seem to keep setting yourself up to take hit on purpose or something.


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## treemandan (Aug 13, 2011)

I don't care , yer a dumb sob dude. Yeah, it makes me a little sick to see a circus. You don't really have to be a trained arborist to know when what you cut is coming at you, nor to move out of its way. its pretty bad you are out there beating yourself up with the easy stuff, I don't ever want to see yer chipper.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 13, 2011)

treemandan said:


> I don't care , yer a dumb sob dude.



Dang, your mean! 
Jeff


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## treemandan (Aug 13, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dang, your mean!
> Jeff


 
that is what i would have to say to anybody in that instance. I would have to say it.



But check out this moldy oldy mofo




Extreme Tree Cutting - YouTube


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## tree MDS (Aug 13, 2011)

treemandan said:


> Yeah, cut it with a 44?:msp_rolleyes:
> 
> Jeez, yer slow. Sorry to say but I saw what I saw. See? Your reaction time ( not to mention judgement ) appears to be lacking. You seem to keep setting yourself up to take hit on purpose or something.


 
He's on something! Why else would anyone spend 20 grand on a lawnmower - to do treework!!

tree MDS dislikes...


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## Nailsbeats (Aug 13, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> He's on something! Why else would anyone spend 20 grand on a lawnmower - to do treework!!
> 
> tree MDS dislikes...


 
Not to get off subject but what size tractor do you have MDS? I am looking into getting one to compliment my skidsteer, what size do I need?


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## the Aerialist (Aug 13, 2011)

*Actually my IQ puts me well into Mensa territory ...*



treemandan said:


> I don't care , yer a dumb sob dude..



Being the smartest guy in most groups has always been a burden to me. Folks of lesser intelligence seem to be put off by my brilliance and love to point out when I do dumb things. And yes, even Einsteins do stupid things. I am no exception, but at least I post my nutty professor moves while most of you only seek to inflate your own egos.

I'm successful at this, like I have been at most things I try, because I'm well spoken and have a World class education. I can converse with a customer at any level and come off as highly knowledgeable, no matter where the conversation goes. Reading the posts here tells me that most of you are barely literate, yet some of you do seem to know a bit about tree work and it is those gems of wisdom I seek here.

Oh yes, what did I do today? I trimmed a medium sized Maple in three hours for more than I made in a week when I started out in this business as a groundie.


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## treemandan (Aug 13, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> Being the smartest guy in most groups has always been a burden to me. Folks of lesser intelligence seem to be put off by my brilliance and love to point out when I do dumb things. And yes, even Einsteins do stupid things. I am no exception, but at least I post my nutty professor moves while most of you only seek to inflate your own egos.
> 
> I'm successful at this, like I have been at most things I try, because I'm well spoken and have a World class education. I can converse with a customer at any level and come off as highly knowledgeable, no matter where the conversation goes. Reading the posts here tells me that most of you are barely literate, yet some of you do seem to know a bit about tree work and it is those gems of wisdom I seek here.
> 
> Oh yes, what did I do today? I trimmed a medium sized Maple in three hours for more than I made in a week when I started out in this business as a groundie.


 
Yeah Jacko Hacko, you are good at bull####ting people into things. Me? I was never good at that sort if thing, never really wanted to. You con people into believing that you know what yer selling. Its pathetic. Don't think of me as your friend but the opposite. Its nice to meet you and say that to you, thanks for posting hack off. And thanks to AS for providing me with the forum to do so, that felt good.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 13, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> Being the smartest guy in most groups has always been a burden to me. Folks of lesser intelligence seem to be put off by my brilliance and love to point out when I do dumb things. And yes, even Einsteins do stupid things. I am no exception, but at least I post my nutty professor moves while most of you only seek to inflate your own egos.
> 
> I'm successful at this, like I have been at most things I try, because I'm well spoken and have a World class education. I can converse with a customer at any level and come off as highly knowledgeable, no matter where the conversation goes. Reading the posts here tells me that most of you are barely literate, yet some of you do seem to know a bit about tree work and it is those gems of wisdom I seek here.
> 
> Oh yes, what did I do today? I trimmed a medium sized Maple in three hours for more than I made in a week when I started out in this business as a groundie.


 
Hey, at least your son,FTA likes this!
Jeff


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## Reg (Aug 13, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> Being the smartest guy in most groups has always been a burden to me.



and how does one cope being in that prediciment so often? Does it go right back to childhood or did you just get smarter with age? 

I am personally still waiting/hoping for it to happen, just once would be nice, but dont hold out an aweful lot of hope to be honest. Thanks in advance


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 13, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> Being the smartest guy in most groups has always been a burden to me. Folks of lesser intelligence seem to be put off by my brilliance and love to point out when I do dumb things. And yes, even Einsteins do stupid things. I am no exception, but at least I post my nutty professor moves while most of you only seek to inflate your own egos.
> 
> I'm successful at this, like I have been at most things I try, because I'm well spoken and have a World class education. I can converse with a customer at any level and come off as highly knowledgeable, no matter where the conversation goes. Reading the posts here tells me that most of you are barely literate, yet some of you do seem to know a bit about tree work and it is those gems of wisdom I seek here.
> 
> Oh yes, what did I do today? I trimmed a medium sized Maple in three hours for more than I made in a week when I started out in this business as a groundie.


 
I find that hard to believe when you makes cuts and get hit in the nuts , really being the smartest guy on the short bus doesn't count pal...


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## TreeAce (Aug 13, 2011)

AA, u really are a trip. You have a come back for everything. I will say one postive thing for you....you DEF are thick skinned.


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## Zale (Aug 13, 2011)

AA- if you take your saddle off and put on a pair of chaps, you might avoid situations like that.


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## the Aerialist (Aug 14, 2011)

*Brains you are born with ~ Wisdom comes with experience ...*



Reg said:


> and how does one cope being in that prediciment so often? Does it go right back to childhood or did you just get smarter with age?
> 
> I am personally still waiting/hoping for it to happen, just once would be nice, but dont hold out an aweful lot of hope to be honest. Thanks in advance


 
Your native intelegence is something you are born with. You don't get any smarter as you go through life, but you do gain experience, and with that, hopefully comes wisdom. I was a problem child in my early schooling and that led to a battery of tests including the Stanford Binet IQ test, where I tested well into the "genius" level. The problem was that the standard curriculum in public school bored me and to relieve the boredom I became the class clown.

Ultimately I was packed off to boarding school, a military academy in Tennessee where I was forced to deal with military "intelligence" which is a totally different topic than the one addressed here. The experience there did give me some insight into the workings of bureaucratic systems and was a great help to me later in life.

This tree work gig is just the latest and possibly last challenge I've tackled. I think I'm doing pretty well and i find it interesting and exciting. I make mistakes as you have all seen, The bottom line is that my customers are universally thrilled with my work as my A-List reviews and ratings prove.

What you guys think of me is not relevant in my life, but what my customers think is critical to my success in this business. It's the same for all of you. It's the paying customers that count in this business, or any business.


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## the Aerialist (Aug 14, 2011)

*Not really that thick skinned ...*



TreeAce said:


> AA, u really are a trip. You have a come back for everything. I will say one postive thing for you....you DEF are thick skinned.



Actually I am trying to be more polite here after the bare knuckled brawls I was drawn into at the beginning. That type of discourse is not productive and i will avoid descending into that childish kintergarden cat calling so many of you seem to like.

Having a snappy come back for "everything" is a useful tool at times. I was stopped by a State Trooper lately while pulling my aluminum trailer light. My hitch set-up for my wife's Colorado was not finalized and the Class 2 bumper hitch (_now replaced with a Class 3_) had the back wheels of the trailer off the ground. The Trooper pulled me over and said he didn't think that was legal.

Entirely winging it, I said that the trailer was designed to ride level with all four wheels on the ground when loaded. When empty the rear axle was a "Tag Axle" and misdirected him by telling him it was like the Tri-axle dump trucks he had seen with the leading wheels sometimes a foot off the ground. He was skeptical about that, but finally I upped the ante by telling him if he had a violation code for that to just write me a ticket and call it a day.

In the end he let me go on my way without a ticket. I didn't dazzle him with brilliance, but I did manage to baffle him with bullscat. The tag axle thing was the snappy come back.


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## the Aerialist (Aug 14, 2011)

*For lack of a horse, the battle was lost ...*



Zale said:


> AA- if you take your saddle off and put on a pair of chaps, you might avoid situations like that.



Yes, and if I was on a horse it would have missed me too. I was wearing my harness because I was about to climb the tree. It was being removed.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 14, 2011)

i have L-earend , that even in the equal and opposite wierlds of Mars and Venus;
that mens stand around and 'bust balls' of other guys and don't really mean it;
jest as much as the wimmens compliment others of their kind and don't really mean it...

So i see sometimes comradre and challenge in these things spoken of that could turn out positive (except of curse the short jokes). These things can make work lighter and day easier(opposite of what is seen here?); also 1 upmanship can be great men-tall exercise of speed, agility and resourcefulness IMLHO.
But, just as simply taught by Goldilocks principal, anything can be too little, too much or just right; so obviously here we are not in the balance of just right.

Also, there is more audience than players on this stage here. Some audience are un-announced due to work affiliation etc. (some that lead and service our industry) that stand back and know who is who, and how they play their hand here; that you might even meet someday at some arborist class or other gathering (and they be stand offish, not want to deal with you etc.).

Perhaps even hear, these things spoken of have happened before; and the stage stayed, but most of the faces changed. Would that be a history to repeat or learn from?


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 14, 2011)

*Its a sad thing, watching people lie.*

Ya have to consider the source when reading post's. Some lie to be loved, some lie to understand, most lie because they are really saddened with their own meager existence. When it is all said and done. We all know, who is really who. Some lie's are too dis-honorable to ever fix. Once ya say it, ya cant take it back. As this goes on and on. The lies get tripped up by more lies. Pretty soon, they cant remember what they said to who or when. This is a sad downward spiral for those who loose their honor. Constantly telling more, bigger lie's to get others to forget the ones before. Eventually they hit bottom and realize no one is their to help them.
Bridges that get burnt, can be rebuilt. Only when that individual comes clean on all and finally admits to themselves, as they look in the mirror, what they, themselves, really are.


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## NCTREE (Aug 14, 2011)

It seems to me that the people who run their mouth the most are the ones that need to shut up the most. I mean come on really people dont care about your physco babble BS. If they are here to learn like they say they are then learn with your ears not your mouth. It would really make this a nicer place to be, just because your life sux doesn't mean you have to drag people into your miserable frame of mind. :bang:

AA i think your alright but the BS is just too much, for your own sake and the sake of others on here just try to sit back and take it all in. Try to keep the BS to a minimum and guanteed the real treeguys will come out of the woodwork and teach you something. Otherwise this forum will get worse and worse in which we will have to change the name of the forum to "sissy boo nah nah" instead of the arboristsite


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## the Aerialist (Aug 14, 2011)

*We certainly went around about the USMC thing ...*

But seriously sgreenbeans, all your "research" only proved I was telling the truth about my short stint in the Corps. You have attributed it to a failure to pass muster at OCS Camp Upsure but that is only your speculation. The truth is far more involved than that, and I stand with honor behind all I posted in that now deleted thread.

Far away from what we should be discussing here, but enlightening none the less. At least i hope you have come away with the fact that I have a great respect for the Corps and all who have served. My father was also a Marine and my entry there was a family tradition. That I had an extremely short stay there is really beside the point.

PM me if you still have problems with my claim to being in the Corps, this is not really the venue for any further comments on it.


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 14, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Ya have to consider the source when reading post's. Some lie to be loved, some lie to understand, most lie because they are really saddened with their own meager existence. When it is all said and done. We all know, who is really who. Some lie's are too dis-honorable to ever fix. Once ya say it, ya cant take it back. As this goes on and on. The lies get tripped up by more lies. Pretty soon, they cant remember what they said to who or when. This is a sad downward spiral for those who loose their honor. Constantly telling more, bigger lie's to get others to forget the ones before. Eventually they hit bottom and realize no one is their to help them.
> Bridges that get burnt, can be rebuilt. Only when that individual comes clean on all and finally admits to themselves, as they look in the mirror, what they, themselves, really are.


 
I find it best to ignore those types , although it funny to occasionally tear a new hole on there ### generally I try to avoid that nonsense we all see it and its not just a single "topic" that has me calling BS ...


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## Reg (Aug 14, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> I make mistakes as you have all seen, The bottom line is that my customers are universally thrilled with my work as my A-List reviews and ratings prove.
> 
> .



Pardon me but I actually have no idea who you are, the mistakes you refer to or anything else....visits to AS are sporadic for me, unfortunately....being the dumbest guy in most groups means I otherwise spend lots of time constantly trying to catch-up. I could probably learn a lot from someone like you, are you hiring at all?


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## the Aerialist (Aug 14, 2011)

*I'm always looking for a few good men ...*



Reg said:


> Pardon me but I actually have no idea who you are, the mistakes you refer to or anything else....visits to AS are sporadic for me, unfortunately....being the dumbest guy in most groups means I otherwise spend lots of time constantly trying to catch-up. I could probably learn a lot from someone like you, are you hiring at all?



BC is pretty far from Pittsburgh so I don't think you'd want to commute. As far as learning from me, I'm sure there are much better climbers you could learn from. Learning from my mistakes as I post them might be good though. I'm trying to learn by that method myself.



NCTREE said:


> ... AA i think your alright but the BS is just too much, for your own sake and the sake of others on here just try to sit back and take it all in. Try to keep the BS to a minimum and guanteed the real treeguys will come out of the woodwork and teach you something...


 
My "BS" is all my true life experiences. I'be been more honest and open here than most I would say. I don't need to fabricate anything about what I do or have done, my real life exploits may come off as BS but let me assure you it is not.

Having said that no one ever did ask me how I got the job as a Skydiver in Tommy Bartlett's "Ski, Sky and Stage Show". I had to wrestle Victor the wrestling bear in the Indianapolis Sportsman's Show. I pinned him twice, and that's not BS either.


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## tree MDS (Aug 14, 2011)

Did you ever stop and think that maybe no one asked for a reason, AA?


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 14, 2011)

People, 
if AA is battling bears, and he is winning, that makes him you people's boss and not the other way around. :msp_sneaky:


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 14, 2011)

fortheaction said:


> people,
> if aa is battling bears, and he is winning, that makes him you people's boss and not the other way around. :msp_sneaky:


 
wtf?


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 14, 2011)

No cussing, Jeff. :msp_thumbdn:


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 14, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> No cussing, Jeff. :msp_thumbdn:


 
Oh, WTHeck?


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 14, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> wtf?


 
I usually go with STFD or in plain words "SHUT THE FRONT DOOR"


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 14, 2011)

Hey, I don't care if it's SHUT THE CAB DOOR. AS means serious business. Now keep it hat way.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 14, 2011)

Good to have a place to go get answer's, huh, FTA.
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 14, 2011)

In general, yes, except for the eerie treespasms in the way. :msp_thumbup:


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## tree MDS (Aug 14, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> In general, yes, except for the eerie treespasms in the way. :msp_thumbup:


 
Seems to me most of us regulars are friends/and or professional aquaintances (ultimately) ... there are however, a couple of exceptions.

Was looking up your profile earlier (cuz you bother me). I see you have earned yourself a total of 6 likes in your time here. Seems like a pretty dismal number... probably something to do with that flabbering, useless mouth you bring to the table. Just saying. 

You and your daddy AA carry on though!  opcorn:


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 14, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Seems to me most of us regulars are friends/and or professional aquaintances (ultimately) ... there are however, a couple of exceptions.
> 
> Was looking up your profile earlier (cuz you bother me). I see you have earned yourself a total of 6 likes in your time here. Seems like a pretty dismal number... probably something to do with that flabbering, useless mouth you bring to the table. Just saying.
> 
> You and your daddy AA carry on though!  opcorn:


 
So you looked up my online profile. Everything else you said makes no sense unless I was a friend pretending it made some sense. "Pretty dismal"...."flabbering, useless"......"daddy"....these phrases read more like you want me to play with you than anything else. That's OK too. :msp_razz:


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## tree MDS (Aug 14, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> So you looked up my online profile. Everything else you said makes no sense unless I was a friend pretending it made some sense. "Pretty dismal"...."flabbering, useless"......"daddy"....these phrases read more like you want me to play with you than anything else. That's OK too. :msp_razz:



Oh, it makes perfect sense, believe me!

BTW: I haven't seen an actual tree pic outta you sinse that pine (that you probably never finished) handed you your ass! What, did you just switch pretend hats to "make believe arborist now"?


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## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 14, 2011)

Gentlemens,

Please excuse my confusion;

But i thought this thread was about putting these practices behind us, and getting to the next day?
Not, as an example of the title perpetuated??

:msp_scared:


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 14, 2011)

TheTreeSpyder said:


> Gentlemens,
> 
> Please excuse my confusion;
> 
> ...


 
:monkey: Huh, what??? :msp_rolleyes:


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 14, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> So you looked up my online profile. Everything else you said makes no sense unless I was a friend pretending it made some sense. "Pretty dismal"...."flabbering, useless"......"daddy"....these phrases read more like you want me to play with you than anything else. That's OK too. :msp_razz:


 
WTHeck?
Jeff - no cussing!


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 14, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Oh, it makes perfect sense, believe me!


 
Classic :jester: What can be learned from the fool that learned to put the alphabetic shapes together, bus has misused nearly the entire application of their original purposes is something that's not able to be learned. So what's next, Jester??? Try misusing my faculties again with those neat little alphabet shapes. Teeeheeeeheeeeeheeeee 

:msp_sneaky:


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 14, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> :monkey: Huh, what??? :msp_rolleyes:


 
You liked it! Why you say 'Huh?'
Jeff


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## Rftreeman (Aug 14, 2011)

can't we just all get along, I mean dang, come on guys, nothing wrong with a jab ever now and then but seems like ever thread turns into a chick fight here now.....


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## TimberMcPherson (Aug 14, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Oh, it makes perfect sense, believe me!
> 
> BTW: I haven't seen an actual tree pic outta you sinse that pine (that you probably never finished) handed you your ass! What, did you just switch pretend hats to "make believe arborist now"?


 
He might have got sidetracked into thinking he was a pro photographer after his successful international publishing career here on AS.

As long as his client know less than him, he would have to screw up in epic proportions to finally get the message. Here people who know the job smell the ignorant and dangerous scent of bubba in the wind. 

Hes keen which is a good thing, but its only a small step to dead keen


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 14, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> You liked it! Why you say 'Huh?'
> Jeff


 
I must have been referring to the other character then. :cool2:


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 14, 2011)

TimberMcPherson said:


> He might have got sidetracked into thinking he was a pro photographer after his successful international publishing career here on AS.
> 
> As long as his client know less than him, he would have to screw up in epic proportions to finally get the message. Here people who know the job smell the ignorant and dangerous scent of bubba in the wind.
> 
> Hes keen which is a good thing, but its only a small step to dead keen


 
Wonderful, Timbo McSpheresome. :msp_thumbup:


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## mic687 (Aug 14, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> BC is pretty far from Pittsburgh so I don't think you'd want to commute. As far as learning from me, I'm sure there are much better climbers you could learn from. Learning from my mistakes as I post them might be good though. I'm trying to learn by that method myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Maybe you should look up Reg Coates on youtube you might learn something. By the way AA you have missed many good opportunities to be humble.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 14, 2011)

mic687 said:


> Maybe you should look up Reg Coates on youtube you might learn something. By the way AA you have missed many good opportunities to be humble.


 
Mic687, maybe 'humble comes with experience' and that would explain alot. You got a good point.
Jeff


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## Zale (Aug 14, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> Yes, and if I was on a horse it would have missed me too. I was wearing my harness because I was about to climb the tree. It was being removed.


 
Don't get testy. If you were on a horse, I would still suggest you use chaps. I know, you were only making one cut and it is just too much of a pain to put them on.


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 14, 2011)

Rftreeman said:


> can't we just all get along, I mean dang, come on guys, nothing wrong with a jab ever now and then but seems like ever thread turns into a chick fight here now.....


 
And someone of your stature can attest to how nasty girl fights can be ..... LOL just kidding ol' buddy'


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## pdqdl (Aug 15, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> He's on something! Why else would anyone spend 20 grand on a lawnmower - to do treework!!


 
I have been looking at the Steiner (or a clone) for it's capacity to work steep hills and soft terrain. It is quite a bit more machine than a lawnmower. I don't think it would be my first choice for tree work, as it is too wide to get through small gates, given it's loader capacity.

The articulating design does not damage lawns like a skid steer. If I was using it for tree work, however, I would expect it to accept universal mini-skid attachments. 
**************************************************************************





I see that I named this thread pretty well. Some of you guys seem to be competing for the honors of biggest ego or perhaps the smallest mind?


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## the Aerialist (Aug 15, 2011)

*The Steiner is unsurpassed on steep hills and for low impact ...*



pdqdl said:


> I have been looking at the Steiner (or a clone) for it's capacity to work steep hills and soft terrain. It is quite a bit more machine than a lawnmower. I don't think it would be my first choice for tree work, as it is too wide to get through small gates, given it's loader capacity.
> 
> The articulating design does not damage lawns like a skid steer. If I was using it for tree work, however, I would expect it to accept universal mini-skid attachments.



The clone you are looking for is the Ventrac, basically the same design and same attachments. Those attachments are numerous, but specific to the Steiner/Ventrac design and as such, are not cheap. I almost picked up the 48" snow blower attachment used for $1200 but it was sold the first day.

There is quite a following of the Steiner products because it is so versatile, being able to go anywhere or do anything. The quad dualies come off and can be put on and off in minutes. One large bolt per wheel takes them off. Still 48" wide though. Most residential fences can come down pretty easy though if need be.

I have found it to be extremely useful on the job for all sorts of tasks that were a major chore before adding the cool little tractor. My crew loves it and customers appreciate that it leaves no damage to their often expensive landscaping and turf.




pdqdl said:


> I see that I named this thread pretty well. Some of you guys seem to be competing for the honors of biggest ego or perhaps the smallest mind?



I'm probably as guilty as any of having a big ego, but I figure at my age, and with my Life experiences I've earned it. Small minds though often try to inflate their own egos by trying to deflate others. It's a children's game that I prefer not to play.


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## the Aerialist (Aug 15, 2011)

*Rumors of my death are greatly exagerated ...*



TimberMcPherson said:


> ... As long as his client know less than him, he would have to screw up in epic proportions to finally get the message.



See McPherson, my clients don't need to know much except other customers impressions of my work. If it's a dangerous tree they want removed and I do it with no damage or injuries they like it. Likewise if they want a tree pruned and I do it making proper cuts and the result is pleasing to them as well as healthy for the tree, then what's not to like?




TimberMcPherson said:


> ... Here people who know the job smell the ignorant and dangerous scent of bubba in the wind... Hes keen which is a good thing, but its only a small step to dead keen



I'm hardly a "Bubba" as you would like to paint me. The scent you detect is the malignant odor of your own fear, just what you fear from me is unclear, I'm an old dude in a young man's game, and I'm sure I get more for my work than you do for your's, so I'm not lowballing any tree firm by working cheap. I'm a premium tree service and I charge more because my reputation for quality work precedes me.

It seems that you are joining treeMDS in having some sort of a death wish for me. Do I make you that uncomfortable? Do you think you really would be better off with me dead? That I continue to live and post here must be very inconvenient for you, but sorry I can't help you with that.


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## ripplerider (Aug 15, 2011)

Dang guys lighten up a little. AA, if it works for you use it. You dont have to justify it to anybody, nor do you have to respond to everyone who downs you. You leave yourself wide open to criticism with your remarks. All this bickering takes away from the site in my opinion. I was drawn in once, from now on just gonna try to ignore it or stay off of here.


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## capecodtree (Aug 15, 2011)

*bickering*

An argument/fight needs at least two participants. If you do not like someones opinion or response, walk away, or the cyber equivalent. Don't take it personally and remember all it takes is a key board to qualify to be in this forum.


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## pdqdl (Aug 15, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> ... I'm probably as guilty as any of having a big ego, but I figure at my age, and with my Life experiences I've earned it. Small minds though often try to inflate their own egos by trying to deflate others.
> ...



I suppose I should have prefaced this thread with a definition: When I referred to "big egos", I was intending to refer to *Egotism*. I was intending to mean "characterized by an exaggerated estimate of one's intellect, ability, importance, appearance, wit, or other valued personal characteristics"[1] – the drive to maintain and enhance favorable views of oneself.

"In egotism we find the person filled with an overweening sense of the importance and qualities of his personality...the things of the 'Me'"._[2] Egotism means placing oneself at the center of one's world with no concern for others_" 
(Blatantly stolen from Wikipedia)

Under my intended usage of "big egos", there is no allowance for having earned the right to have an inflated sense of self worth. My personal opinion on this topic is that if your comments in this forum do not inspire the accolades of your peers, then you are sadly mistaken about your self-image. 

So many of the flame-war problems are caused by someone beating their own chest too flagrantly, and then someone else doing their damnedest to knock them down. Both of these behaviors are driven not by a genuine feeling of self worth; _rather, they are cries for attention that attempt to feed a fragile ego._

I genuinely enjoy the positive feedback that I get from this forum; to that extent I also get ego reinforcement. Far be it from me to discourage folks from seeking praise for their efforts in life.

I do my best to gather positive comments by showing my best effort to contribute to the forum, and I try not to be negative. It just gathers more negativity; this drives a person with a fragile ego to boast more, the community piles on additional negative feedback, and the vicious cycle spirals another thread into pointlessness.

Don't you guys see this pattern?

******************************************************************* 


Aerial_Arborist said:


> The clone you are looking for is the Ventrac, ...


 
Yes, I was indeed looking at the Ventrac. My contract has not yet come in, but I think I cannot justify the expense. Just out of curiosity, how much trouble would it be to make an adapter onto the end of the Steiner loader, and then use universal mini-skid attachments? 

So far, I have done that for both a Ford and a John Deere tractor.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 15, 2011)

capecodtree said:


> An argument/fight needs at least two participants. If you do not like someones opinion or response, walk away, or the cyber equivalent. Don't take it personally and remember all it takes is a key board to qualify to be in this forum.


 
I agree. Just like I was when Marquis Tree called me a troll and other stuff. I was mellow.
Jeff


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## the Aerialist (Aug 16, 2011)

*With my ramps I just drive it into the dump truck ...*



pdqdl said:


> ... Yes, I was indeed looking at the Ventrac... Just out of curiosity, how much trouble would it be to make an adapter onto the end of the Steiner loader, and then use universal mini-skid attachments? ...



Steiner offers this attachment:

73-70412 
PT420
3-Point Hitch/Category "O" 

I'm not sure if that would give you the ability to use any "universal" attachments designed for a three point hitch, but it may. Modifying the loader (are you thinking grapple here?) is most likely possible but that's way out of my expertise.

I bought the two Magliner ramps to accomplish "loading" my dump with the tractor as well as to get the tractor up and over retaining walls when needed. Probably the best solution is to add a dedicated loader like a dingo or something similar and use the tractor to forward the material to it. I did this with the Bobcat shown in one of my videos when the Bobcat started tearing up the yard and causing big ruts in the turf.

[video=youtube;Ngj_06h5LCI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngj_06h5LCI[/video]


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## pdqdl (Aug 16, 2011)

Thanks for the video. I didn't realize how limited the loader was. It sure does have a big footprint, though.

You should look into spending the big bucks on a bigger machine. That is a nice little machine for hills and soft ground, but it is too handicapped. Look at Swinger or Bobcat A300 for something with a whole lot more capacity that doesn't tear up the ground too.

Swinger loader Sales : Swinger of Michigan, LLC - Swinger loaders :: Home


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## the Aerialist (Aug 16, 2011)

*There is a FEL attachment for the Steiner ...*



pdqdl said:


> Thanks for the video. I didn't realize how limited the loader was. It sure does have a big footprint, though.



My Steiner has the "Slip Scoop" which is limited, but a lot less money than the FEL:

[video=youtube;tdzyIIodKco]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdzyIIodKco&feature=player_embedded[/video]



pdqdl said:


> You should look into spending the big bucks on a bigger machine. That is a nice little machine for hills and soft ground, but it is too handicapped. Look at Swinger or Bobcat A300 for something with a whole lot more capacity that doesn't tear up the ground too.
> 
> Swinger loader Sales : Swinger of Michigan, LLC - Swinger loaders :: Home



The Swinger looks good, I'm also looking at Avanti wheel loaders. Bobcat and Kubota make articulated wheel loaders as well. The A300 you mention has all wheel steering which is almost as good. Looking is the active word here though, it will at least be next year before I consider much more in capitol expenditures.


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## pdqdl (Aug 16, 2011)

The A300 is better than all the rest. Flip a switch, and it goes back to being a skid steer.

It has a very small footprint for it's capacity, so it goes more places than an articulated loader of similar weight & capacity. It is also quite a bit too large for many jobs, so it isn't for everybody.

Only the "skid-steer" machines seem to have standardized implements that can be attached, so you have many more choices when it comes to attachments. Even the "integrated tool carriers" from folks like Caterpillar have proprietary attachments, so you are stuck with what they offer. 

...and as we all know, skid-steer tears up yards.


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## the Aerialist (Aug 16, 2011)

*When I said "almost as good" I meant for me ...*



pdqdl said:


> The A300 is better than all the rest. Flip a switch, and it goes back to being a skid steer.
> 
> It has a very small footprint for it's capacity, so it goes more places than an articulated loader of similar weight & capacity. It is also quite a bit too large for many jobs, so it isn't for everybody.



Yeah the A300 is the best of both Worlds, a skid steer and a wheel loader, but a mini wheel loader like the Swinger or the Avanti would suit my business needs the best.


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## TimberMcPherson (Aug 16, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> See McPherson, my clients don't need to know much except other customers impressions of my work. If it's a dangerous tree they want removed and I do it with no damage or injuries they like it. Likewise if they want a tree pruned and I do it making proper cuts and the result is pleasing to them as well as healthy for the tree, then what's not to like?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you read the post you would see that we were talking about FTA, or at least I was. 

I would like this industry to create less cripples and death notices. Its hard enough without seeing your peers one by one get taken out due to injuries, without seeing accidents waiting to happen get pasted or spectacularly smash there way out of the industry within a few years of starting up.
This game is dangerous, learning from your own mistakes is a risk I would want any honest hard working guy undertake because the risks are often "unseen" and life changing. And worse when they take the lives of others.

I do bust balls about bubbas, but bubbas hurt and kill alot more people and property than the trained guys. They dont know enough to know they REALLY dont know enough, and the guys who work for them are really under the gun. A bubbas worker was killed here 6 months ago.

Again my post wasnt directed at you, but the gist of what I am saying can be applied to alot of situations. If your serious about treework and am looking at hiring people or having people work in your work zone, its YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to REALLY know what your doing, and self taught all to often just doesnt cut it. Somebody else shouldnt have to pay for your arrogance and ignorance. The training is out there and available, you can work for a reputable company and learn a decades worth of things in 6 months. Or you can be the next accident waiting to happen for some poor worker who, like you, is just trying to get ahead.


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## the Aerialist (Aug 16, 2011)

*I'm a lot of things, but a "Bubba" is not one of them ...*



TimberMcPherson said:


> ... Or you can be the next accident waiting to happen for some poor worker who, like you, is just trying to get ahead.


 

I'm about the fastest thing from being a "bubba" that you could imagine and I was reacting to that. Sorry I lumped you in with treeMDS, you don't deserve that association. Your post above makes a lot of sense and I couldn't agree more. I have worked for three other tree services and it was the disregard for safety and low quality of the staff that made me decide to go on my own. There is no one more concerned about safe operation than myself and I always put the welfare of those working with me as priority one.

I learned a lot in my time at other tree service companies and I was indeed fortunate to have an excellent, if old school, climber to show me many things about tree work that I use every day. I have advanced myself, especially gear wise, since that time and the work I have done in the four years since starting Aerial Arborist Tree Service has been an accelerated course in tree work. I still have much to learn and it's my hope that my presence here will be rewarded with good information that can help me run a safer, more profitable business.

Again my apologies for putting you in the same post as treeMDS.


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## tree MDS (Aug 17, 2011)

Just checking in to see how the "big minds and small egos", thread is coming along... lmao,, hahaha! ..do carry on though Old Chaps!! :hmm3grin2orange: 

Oldirty for Moderator!!! 

Edit: unless someone else can finally do the deed!!


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## tree MDS (Aug 17, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> I'm about the fastest thing from being a "bubba" that you could imagine and I was reacting to that. Sorry I lumped you in with treeMDS, you don't deserve that association. Your post above makes a lot of sense and I couldn't agree more. I have worked for three other tree services and it was the disregard for safety and low quality of the staff that made me decide to go on my own. There is no one more concerned about safe operation than myself and I always put the welfare of those working with me as priority one.
> 
> I learned a lot in my time at other tree service companies and I was indeed fortunate to have an excellent, if old school, climber to show me many things about tree work that I use every day. I have advanced myself, especially gear wise, since that time and the work I have done in the four years since starting Aerial Arborist Tree Service has been an accelerated course in tree work. I still have much to learn and it's my hope that my presence here will be rewarded with good information that can help me run a safer, more profitable business.
> 
> Again my apologies for putting you in the same post as treeMDS.



How about you don't mention my name in your posts either, old man!

You wouldn't know "old school", if it was dunking your old ass head in the toilet.. just like the boys did to you back in grammer school!!! 

Fake ass, done for old RELIC!

Bann my ass, I'm just about done listening to this crap anyway!!!!


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 17, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> How about you don't mention my name in your posts either, old man!
> 
> You wouldn't know "old school", if it was dunking your old ass head in the toilet.. just like the boys did to you back in grammer school!!!
> 
> ...


 
So like fatal, BRO


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## beowulf343 (Aug 17, 2011)

Aerial_Arborist said:


> I learned a lot in my time at other tree service companies and I was indeed fortunate to have an excellent, if old school, climber to show me many things about tree work that I use every day. I have advanced myself, especially gear wise, since that time and the work I have done in the four years since starting Aerial Arborist Tree Service has been an accelerated course in tree work. I still have much to learn and it's my hope that my presence here will be rewarded with good information that can help me run a safer, more profitable business.



Mr. Aerial Arborist, i know i've bust on you, but being serious, i'm rather surprised by the line, "I have advanced myself, _especially gear wise_. Gear does not a great climber make. I wonder if you are falling into a trap i've seen many times-buying the latest and greatest gear in hopes that it will cover up shortcomings in technique. In my fifteen years, yeah, i've advanced quite a bit in gear, but i take most pride in the fact that i've advanced most in technique, skill, ability, experience. These are more valuable to me and most other real climbers i know personally than the newest fad in gear. But you make it sound like the gear is the most valuable thing you've acquired in the last _four?_ years. Are your priorities skewed? I've seen videos and pics about your steiner, your ramps, your crew, your truck, but very little about actual skills or techniques. Vertical speed line, one time is the only one i can think of off the top of the head. 
And that's what i'm trying to get at-four years you've owned a tree business, you've worked for tree companies, and yet you've heard of a vertical speed line for the first time just recently? How is this even possible, the technique has been around, it's not even a hard idea to come up with on your own. It's actually something i expect a one year climber to at least know about and understand the concept. 
Sorry AA, i'm really not picking on you this time, i'm just trying to get my mind around why you are the way you are. Toys have a higher priority than actual learning for you is what i've been forced to come up with. 
And it's not like it's difficult to learn new techniques on this job if someone is really serious about it. I'm not even talking about the internet. I've pulled over on the side of the road when i see a crew working and even if i'm not allowed on the jobsite, i'll sit and watch and talk with the climber when he's done. Look what you learned from matt, why has it taken you four or more years to get to this point? 

I do agree with mds on this, you don't look like you were taught by an old school climber, i know what their products look like and the tendencies they have. You look like someone who saw a guy do it on tv, read the tree climbers companion, ran out and bought the gear, and are self taught. You do things an old school teacher would ream you for. I'm more old school than many, remember the stub thing-where do you think i got that from? But not that there is anything wrong with self-taught, i know several excellent self-taught climbers, and i agree with what i've seen you say here before about how easy tree work actually is. The theory is easy, the job can be done by even a mental midget if he can stand up to the physical aspect of it, but getting it done smooth and safe (the parts that you are lacking and need polish on), that is not so easy. But after your ways on here, is there anyone who is willing to help polish your basics?


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## pdqdl (Aug 17, 2011)

The thread is devolving again boys ! It's not really helpful nor entertaining to watch you guys slug it out. 

Why don't you just send a private message to the guys you dislike; then the rest of us won't know all about your bickering fights.


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## tree MDS (Aug 17, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> The thread is devolving again boys ! It's not really helpful nor entertaining to watch you guys slug it out.
> 
> Why don't you just send a private message to the guys you dislike; then the rest of us won't know all about your bickering fights.



tree MDS dislikes this post..


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## pdqdl (Aug 17, 2011)

That's ok. I'm cool with that.

AA! Do you see how a minor disagreement can be settled? tree MDS just tells me what he thinks about my post, and I don't get too excited.

If he chose to say all kinds of unkind things about me, then I would feel obliged to ignore him. As it stands, I kinda liked the sarcasm/wit behind it.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 17, 2011)

pdqdl said:


> That's ok. I'm cool with that.
> 
> AA! Do you see how a minor disagreement can be settled? tree MDS just tells me what he thinks about my post, and I don't get too excited.
> 
> If he chose to say all kinds of unkind things about me, then I would feel obliged to ignore him. As it stands, I kinda liked the sarcasm/wit behind it.


 
Don't forget me 'fancy pant's', BTW, your shoe's are ugly! 
Jeff


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## 046 (Aug 17, 2011)

good thread... or shall I say good attempt as some dive back into a slugfest. 

seems lately it's all about who can insult who the most... 
slam one's choice of gear or lack of ... personal slams about family are the worst!


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## the Aerialist (Aug 17, 2011)

*Mia Culpa ~ I plead Nolo Contendre ...*



beowulf343 said:


> Mr. Aerial Arborist, i know i've bust on you, but being serious, i'm rather surprised by the line, "I have advanced myself, _especially gear wise_. Gear does not a great climber make.... but very little about actual skills or techniques. Vertical speed line, one time is the only one i can think of off the top of the head... And that's what i'm trying to get at-four years you've owned a tree business, you've worked for tree companies, and yet you've heard of a vertical speed line for the first time just recently? How is this even possible, the technique has been around, it's not even a hard idea to come up with on your own... i'm just trying to get my mind around why you are the way you are. Toys have a higher priority than actual learning for you is what i've been forced to come up with... Look what you learned from matt, why has it taken you four or more years to get to this point?



I'm doing great with my business and four years without an on the job injury or any damage to the customer's property. My climbing is slow and at times tedious, like today, deadwooding and minor trimming four large Oaks without spikes which was somewhat exhausting for me. I am largely self taught although I give credit and kudos to my first mentor, from whom I learned a lot. 

As to toy's I'll confess to being a gadget guy. I'm constantly seeking to give myself mechanical advantage and have tried just about everything. I've settled on A.R.T. products but am still susceptible to new stuff, like the rope wrench, now that it's metal.

Well duh! what a dummy, :bang: master rigger (parachute) and I never thought vertical for a zip line. I guess it's because my zip line training all was geared towards personnel and vertical was not an option.



beowulf343 said:


> ... not that there is anything wrong with self-taught, i know several excellent self-taught climbers, and i agree with what i've seen you say here before about how easy tree work actually is. The theory is easy, the job can be done by even a mental midget if he can stand up to the physical aspect of it, but getting it done smooth and safe (the parts that you are lacking and need polish on), that is not so easy...



I've found climbing, while physically demanding for me, to be the easy part of tree work. It's knowing what to do when you get there, and making it work with no injures and no damage that is the hard part. It's the challenge I enjoy most, it's mental not physical. I'd have to agree that I could use a bit of buffing up on my technique and methods. But as long as I'm operating safely and damage free I'm meeting my goals.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 17, 2011)

046 said:


> good thread... or shall I say good attempt as some dive back into a slugfest.
> 
> seems lately it's all about who can insult who the most...
> slam one's choice of gear or lack of ... personal slams about family are the worst!


 
Hey 046,
It works itself out if you just wait a minute.
Jeff


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## Nailsbeats (Aug 18, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> tree MDS dislikes this post..


 
Oh this is pure gold right here! Haha, lmfao.......................


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## Panama (Aug 18, 2011)

Hello, my name is Jim......... and I'm a tree-a-holic


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## Grace Tree (Aug 18, 2011)

046 said:


> good thread... or shall I say good attempt as some dive back into a slugfest.
> 
> seems lately it's all about who can insult who the most...
> slam one's choice of gear or lack of ... personal slams about family are the worst!


Maybe it's the same reason bees and yellow jackets get all "stingy" this time of year. I'm using the ignore list more and more. Pretty soon I'll have AS all to myself. Harmony!
Phil


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