# Jonsered 621



## reel_story (Sep 13, 2009)

When I was growing up we had an old Jonsered 621 chainsaw. And we ran the crap out of that thing and it never let us down. I remember the make and model and that is about all. Now that I am older and interested in saws I thought it would be nice to add one of these to my collection some day. Anyone know more details about these saws. What size engine is in a 621? How much could a guy pick one up for? When were they made? Or, whatever anyone might know about these saws.

You know, just for old times!! (Or, maybe just a reason to buy another saw?)

(HMMM...do I need a reason??)

Ryan


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## heimannm (Sep 13, 2009)

Check Mike Acres sight for more detailed information.

I have two right now, a few bit and pieces, and one I traded to my brother up near Superior.

The information I have says they were made from 1970 to 1982. 56 cc displacement and really advanced for their time, Nikasil plated cylinders and the like. 

My first new one ran for 26 or 27 years before I finally failed a PTO side bearing and started passing the balls up through the piston/cylinder. I was stupid and broke the case trying to get it apart to replace the bearings. Wish I'd searched more diligently before tearing into that project.

Mark


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## DougMN (Sep 13, 2009)

My dad had a 621, he cut a lot of fire wood with that saw with little to no trouble. Great saw until the scum down the street stole it. He replaced it with a 630 also a good saw.


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## eyolf (Sep 13, 2009)

Chances are when an older woodsman in my area talks about a "silver-top" he means a 621. This saw was a very useful size for the timber in my area, and sold very well here. One of its virtues was its torquey motor...standard sprocket was 8 tooth, but the saw handled it well.

In it's day, their antivibe was one of the best, and held up pretty good, but many people liked the sound...where the homelites and McC saws each had their own snarl, the swede saws had a smooth quiet scream that sounded like quality. To woodsmen accustomed to saws like a Super XL or 10-10, the Jonsereds seemed like a sports car.


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## SawTroll (Sep 13, 2009)

Imo, the 621 was one of the high points in chainsaw development, and it still is a nice firewood saw!


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## bama (Sep 13, 2009)

I just had mine out on Saturday. Took a Husky 61(early model), a 625II, a 630, a 490, and the 621. I was cutting dead standing oak from 4"-20" and the saw that cut the strongest was the 621. Not the fastest, but with the 16" bar, it would just grunt through everything I did with it. The 630 was pulling a 20" bar and still needs to run about 6 tanks to get it to full power, but it would slow down in the big stuff. Nice chips, but that was some hard wood.

Needless to say, I cut mostly with the 621. Would have done more cutting with the 61 because I like the feel of the top handle, but it started puking bar oil out of the vented cap and it was getting all over the place. New one is on order.


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## SawTroll (Sep 13, 2009)

I believe the 630 was the replacement for the 621 - it was based on the Husky 162se (and made at the Husky factory) - that may have been the final kill of the _pure_ Jonsereds saws......


The 70E was replaced by the Husky made 670 at the same time.


All Jonsereds made after that was more or less influenced (and/or made by) Husky and/or Partner (lots of variations of the theme).....:bang::bang:


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## roncoinc (Sep 13, 2009)

I sold my 621 about 2 months ago.. offered $100 for it so it went.
somebody cut exhaust side of the piston to change timing and it did rev up pretty good..
was heavy to pick up and set on a log but then all you had to do was balance it and it would eat it's way thru the wood pretty well on it's own !!
auto chain oiler seemed to be the weak spot on these,but after that many years,so what ? take apart and refurb, run lighter bar oil and mine worked fine..


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## SawTroll (Sep 13, 2009)

roncoinc said:


> .....
> auto chain oiler seemed to be the weak spot on these,but after that many years,so what ? take apart and refurb, run lighter bar oil and mine worked fine..




:jawdrop: The oiler is just fine, and adjustable, if in order......


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## 04ultra (Sep 13, 2009)

My 621 has paint peeling in the gas tank ....runs good till it plugs the fuel filter ....





.


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## SawTroll (Sep 13, 2009)

04ultra said:


> My 621 has paint peeling in the gas tank ....runs good till it plugs the fuel filter ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Seem like you always have bad luck with Jreds.......:jawdrop:


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## 04ultra (Sep 13, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> Seem like you always have bad luck with Jreds.......:jawdrop:



Its in great shape ......Just the paint is peeling inside the tank....Looks like some were painted and some were not .....


My 2149 , 801, 2071 , 2153, 520, 2065 and all the rest all run good .........


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## joe25DA (Sep 13, 2009)

*Is mine a 621?*

Not trying to hijack the OP, but this is prob the best thread to id this saw. I got it and 6 others as a "extras'" with an 80 jred. I think its a 621, not sure. Has a 20" total bar. here's the pics.
<a href="http://s729.photobucket.com/albums/ww294/joe25da/?action=view&current=saws212.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww294/joe25da/saws212.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s729.photobucket.com/albums/ww294/joe25da/?action=view&current=saws211.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww294/joe25da/saws211.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s729.photobucket.com/albums/ww294/joe25da/?action=view&current=saws210.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww294/joe25da/saws210.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s729.photobucket.com/albums/ww294/joe25da/?action=view&current=saws209.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww294/joe25da/saws209.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## reel_story (Sep 13, 2009)

*Must have been a good saw!!*

Hearing good comments on this saw!!

Oh no!!...........Now I want one even worse!!


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## SawTroll (Sep 13, 2009)

joe25DA said:


> Not trying to hijack the OP, but this is prob the best thread to id this saw. I got it and 6 others as a "extras'" with an 80 jred. I think its a 621, not sure. .....



That is a late 621, no doubt about that!


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## joe25DA (Sep 13, 2009)

Thats good to hear! Sounds like these saws were real workhorses. This one is a little banged up but, 180psi, clean p&c, and good spark. Im so glad I didnt pass on it!


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## bama (Sep 13, 2009)

joe25DA said:


> Thats good to hear! Sounds like these saws were real workhorses. This one is a little banged up but, 180psi, clean p&c, and good spark. Im so glad I didnt pass on it!



I have a late model(in pieces). The chainbrake was quite interesting on those saws. It kills the motor, not just the chain. Interesting.


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## joe25DA (Sep 13, 2009)

bama said:


> I have a late model(in pieces). The chainbrake was quite interesting on those saws. It kills the motor, not just the chain. Interesting.



Thats probaly why the tree company disabled this ones brake.


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## heimannm (Sep 13, 2009)

Kills the engine and pushes a "plunger" against the clutch drum rather than a wrap around band like we find on most saws today. I've never seen one in person but you can tell even on the non-brake saws how it was intended to work.

Mark


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## bama (Sep 13, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> I believe the 630 was the replacement for the 621 - it was based on the Husky 162se (and made at the Husky factory) - that may have been the final kill of the _pure_ Jonsereds saws......
> 
> 
> The 70E was replaced by the Husky made 670 at the same time.
> ...



Hey, Sawtroll..

I put this up in our social group, but I might as well ask it here, too.
Have you ever had trouble with fine dust making it into the carb? My current 621 has a quarter size hole in the side cover on the clutch side, so maybe that is letting the fine dust in? I have a 100% filter and good seals on both ends. How much crud gets in your saw after cutting a few loads?


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## SawTroll (Sep 13, 2009)

bama said:


> Hey, Sawtroll..
> 
> I put this up in our social group, but I might as well ask it here, too.
> Have you ever had trouble with fine dust making it into the carb? My current 621 has a quarter size hole in the side cover on the clutch side, so maybe that is letting the fine dust in? I have a 100% filter and good seals on both ends. How much crud gets in your saw after cutting a few loads?



Duct-tape will fix it - color fits the "silvertop" into the bargain.....


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## bama (Sep 13, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> Duct tape will fix it - color fits the "silvertop" into the bargain.....



Nice.....


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## heimannm (Sep 13, 2009)

If the women don't find you handsome....


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## reel_story (Oct 4, 2009)

*Jonsered M62*

I was mistaken the saw we used to have growing up was a M62. Anyone know anything about these saws. What size? When were they made? Are they hard to find? Anyone have any stories about one?

Thanks,
Ryan


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## Gerdo (Jan 30, 2012)

Hi all, I'm new to this forum and, like an earlier contributor said, this is my first post. I hope I'm in order posting to this thread but as it is all about Jonsreds 621 it fits my enquiry. This time last year after two scarry winters of fairly large trees (Lawson Cypress) loaded with snow and swaying dangerously close to our house, I decided, after a lot of serious thinking, to buy a chainsaw and do the job myself. My first saw and my first flirt with a saw. But the excitement kept building and it brought back the fascination for saws which gained from a time in '77 when I visited the loggers in Northern Ontario. Well, I got the saw and with the help of a local farmhand and his bucket loader got the trees down. Fantastic, but now I was hooked on chainsaws - what a buzz. Now one day recently I came across an old chainsaw in an outhouse which had not been opened for yearst. It was one that my older brother had some years ago. It was covered in cobwebs and dust; I dusted it off and give it a few squirts of WD40 which brought back some of the colour and shape. But the thing that impressed me right away was the sheer quality and build of it - it oozed class. I couldn't find a name for a while but then, on the black guard in front of the top handle the the name 'Jonsereds' was impressed. As you can gather I am a real novice as regards 'saws, so I would much appreciate you well informed folk to tell me what model you think it is, and any other info or insights you can give me on it. From other pics on the net I have formed that opinion that it might be a model 621. The starter spring is broken; what I can see of the piston looks clean; there is a small gap between the starter mechanism and the side of the body but, on the whole does not seem to have been too damaged. I intend to attach some pictires which I took today. Sorry for the long intro and look forward to your views.

Gerdo


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## heimannm (Jan 30, 2012)

I have one that still has the hand guard, and the cover over the spark plug.







Mark


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## jockeydeuce (Jan 30, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> Hi all, I'm new to this forum and, like an earlier contributor said, this is my first post. I hope I'm in order posting to this thread but as it is all about Jonsreds 621 it fits my enquiry. This time last year after two scarry winters of fairly large trees (Lawson Cypress) loaded with snow and swaying dangerously close to our house, I decided, after a lot of serious thinking, to buy a chainsaw and do the job myself. My first saw and my first flirt with a saw. But the excitement kept building and it brought back the fascination for saws which gained from a time in '77 when I visited the loggers in Northern Ontario. Well, I got the saw and with the help of a local farmhand and his bucket loader got the trees down. Fantastic, but now I was hooked on chainsaws - what a buzz. Now one day recently I came across an old chainsaw in an outhouse which had not been opened for yearst. It was one that my older brother had some years ago. It was covered in cobwebs and dust; I dusted it off and give it a few squirts of WD40 which brought back some of the colour and shape. But the thing that impressed me right away was the sheer quality and build of it - it oozed class. I couldn't find a name for a while but then, on the black guard in front of the top handle the the name 'Jonsereds' was impressed. As you can gather I am a real novice as regards 'saws, so I would much appreciate you well informed folk to tell me what model you think it is, and any other info or insights you can give me on it. From other pics on the net I have formed that opinion that it might be a model 621. The starter spring is broken; what I can see of the piston looks clean; there is a small gap between the starter mechanism and the side of the body but, on the whole does not seem to have been too damaged. I intend to attach some pictires which I took today. Sorry for the long intro and look forward to your views.
> 
> Gerdo



Welcome to the forum, Gerdo!!!

That is a 621 you have......Great saws! Wouldn't it be great if the only reason is was put away years ago is the broken starter spring??

I'm sure it will need the fuel system gone through as well, but well worth doing.


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## bama (Jan 30, 2012)

heimannm said:


> I have one that still has the hand guard, and the cover over the spark plug.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You just have to rub it in, don't you Mark!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## SawTroll (Jan 30, 2012)

reel_story said:


> I was mistaken the saw we used to have growing up was a M62. Anyone know anything about these saws. What size? When were they made? Are they hard to find? Anyone have any stories about one?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ryan



Basically the same saw as the 621, but a few details were different. The 62 came out in 1968, and the 621 in 1970, as an improved version.


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## Gerdo (Jan 30, 2012)

heimannm said:


> I have one that still has the hand guard, and the cover over the spark plug.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Mark for the pic, looking well too. Do you know what year of manufacture yours is or could you hazard a guess at the year of mine?

Gerdo


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## Gerdo (Jan 30, 2012)

jockeydeuce said:


> Welcome to the forum, Gerdo!!!
> 
> That is a 621 you have......Great saws! Wouldn't it be great if the only reason is was put away years ago is the broken starter spring??
> 
> I'm sure it will need the fuel system gone through as well, but well worth doing.



Thanks for your welcome jockeydeuce. Yes, my thoughts also: it would be great if it was only the broken starter spring that 'stopped the music'. A bit of a sad thought, I was away most of those years when my brother bought that saw in the 80s; he's deceased for a number of years now; my sister tells me that he was in his elements with the saw, then one day it all quit. I suppose he couldn't get spring for it. Yes, I'm thinking that now would be a good time to do all you suggested.
But I can't wait to hear this baby scream again.


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## joe25DA (Jan 30, 2012)

Funny this thread is back up. I just picked up another 621, comp felt great, ran off prime, pulled the muffler and has a scored up p/c. Just ordered rings hopefully its salvageable.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jan 30, 2012)

I know a family that used to log....they used Jonsereds 621! One of these days when I'm up that way ....I'm going to stop in and see if I can scoop up any of the dead ones! I remember that round air filter!

I also remember the dad ranting about the alcohol in the gas ruining his saws! He'd get all worked up! LoL! It didn't take much to get him going! Not saying that a burnt piston wasn't a big deal....


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## heimannm (Jan 30, 2012)

joe25DA said:


> Funny this thread is back up. I just picked up another 621, comp felt great, ran off prime, pulled the muffler and has a scored up p/c. Just ordered rings hopefully its salvageable.



Hey Joe - remind me next week to see what part for the 621's I might have left over in the attic.

Mark


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## joe25DA (Jan 30, 2012)

heimannm said:


> Hey Joe - remind me next week to see what part for the 621's I might have left over in the attic.
> 
> Mark



Thanks Mark! Im sending a picture of the mystery mac now. Would the id tag in the carb box help?


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## Gerdo (Jan 31, 2012)

heimannm said:


> I have one that still has the hand guard, and the cover over the spark plug.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the pic Mark - looking good. Do you know what year your 621 is, what year mine might be?
Gerdol


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## SawTroll (Jan 31, 2012)

joe25DA said:


> Thanks Mark! Im sending a picture of the mystery mac now. Would the id tag in the carb box help?



Why not post it in another thread? :msp_wink:


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## spike60 (Jan 31, 2012)

Yes, 621's are fine saws indeed. Ahead of their time when introduced. Like most Jonny's of that era, you can still run them today and not really feel like your running an older saw. 

Here's one of mine. :biggrin:


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## SawTroll (Jan 31, 2012)

That one looks like an older one, but likely a little newer than mine....


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## Gerdo (Feb 1, 2012)

jockeydeuce said:


> Welcome to the forum, Gerdo!!!
> 
> That is a 621 you have......Great saws! Wouldn't it be great if the only reason is was put away years ago is the broken starter spring??
> 
> I'm sure it will need the fuel system gone through as well, but well worth doing.



Now that I have identified my saw, thanks to jockeydeuce and the rest of you, I am really looking forward to doing some restoration, starting with the fuel system. I have already got a starter recoil spring from ebay uk; I have emptied the fuel tank (fuel came out as greyish color with fine dust or grains in it); taken out the fuel filter and washed this in new petrol (gas to you). Do you have to fit a new filter or would they clean o? I rinsed it a few time s in gas, some fine grains came out but now i can blow and suck into it with no great resistance. the fuel line then is attached to a 1" square white plastic plate with 4 screws in it; the line comes out of the top of this plate and goes down (seemingly) under the piston body; another line comes from one side of the plate and is attached to the carburettor. Now, I haven't done much mechanical work 'cept fixing the odd tape recorders issue. The biggest and scarriest job I've ever done was taking out the bass on a 120 bass accorddion with the added pressure of having to have it ready for that night. But here I would appreciate your help, and I can see that there are quite a number of very knowledgeable and helpful contributors to this website. Where now do I go to continue the fuel line cleansing? Do I have to take the carb off and if so, how do I proceed? By the way, on top of the carb is engraved: R 
Tillotson 
Toledo,0 U.S.A 
and below, a couple of emblems and the number 3.
Thanks for all your input.
Gerdo


I think I'm becoming a chainsaw junkie! LOL, not.


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## Gerdo (Feb 20, 2012)

*Diagnose my pics.*



SawTroll said:


> Why not post it in another thread? :msp_wink:



Hi SawTroll , I couldn't find how to start this post as a new thread so I've jumped in on this one. I know someone posted instrctns on how to place pic directly in a post without the use 'attachments' It's a really nifty way of doing it, but I couldn't find the thread, so I am attaching pics of my 621 project; I would like yourself and others to give me an assessment of how my saw appears to trained eyes.

Gerry 
PS When I went to upload attachments the last batch of attachments (pics) were in my upload folder and I couldn't get rid of them.


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## Gerdo (Feb 22, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> Hi SawTroll , I couldn't find how to start this post as a new thread so I've jumped in on this one. I know someone posted instrctns on how to place pic directly in a post without the use 'attachments' It's a really nifty way of doing it, but I couldn't find the thread, so I am attaching pics of my 621 project; I would like yourself and others to give me an assessment of how my saw appears to trained eyes.
> 
> Gerry
> PS When I went to upload attachments the last batch of attachments (pics) were in my upload folder and I couldn't get rid of them.



I just cottoned on to how to add more pics.


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## Gerdo (Feb 22, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> I just cottoned on to how to add more pics.



The next batch.


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## Gerdo (Feb 22, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> The next batch.



The last lot, I hope I haven't overdone the pics, but I wanted to give you a good idea so that you who know, could give me an opinion as to what this saw looks like from a 'wear and tear' point of view. The serial number of this 621 is: 387626
Gerdo


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## SawTroll (Feb 22, 2012)

Cool that the ports start in the case (I never have taken mine apart). That serial number indicates an early one, my guesstimate is 1971. :msp_smile:


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## BrocLuno (Feb 26, 2012)

*I'm not a saw expert by any stretch, but ...*

That piston and rod look real good to me. 

Some good 2T oil for the rings and carefully reassemble the jug. 

Not sure what sort of sealing "goop" you folks have. I like Roll Royce gasket seal, same as Hypalon spray.


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## Gerdo (Feb 27, 2012)

BrocLuno said:


> That piston and rod look real good to me.
> 
> Some good 2T oil for the rings and carefully reassemble the jug.
> 
> Not sure what sort of sealing "goop" you folks have. I like Roll Royce gasket seal, same as Hypalon spray.



Thanks BrocLuno, ye the piston, rings, gudgeon pin, bearings and barrel seem fairly tight and OK. But at this minute I'm wondering if I have been compromised or undone be a routine incident: Dan, a friend of mine who works at tractors and machinery - and is a good mechanic) was trying the gudgeon pin, he inserted it from one side and drove it through out the other; not too forcefully but with a bit of resistance. After he had gone I was looking at the piston again and noticed a little roughness or abrations at one end ot the 'pin entrance or exit (pics enclosed). I have since worked on it by placing a light piece of card over the area and lightly tapping with a small hammer, making sure that I was tapping inward towards the centre of the aperture.
My Nikon D70 was top of the league when I bought it, but now on blowing up part of a pic, you 
see that its 6000 pixels are lacking sharpness.
I made the cylinder gasket from the lightest of the 4 types that I got, being aware that, the thicker the gasket the less compression in the chamber. My first attempt was not very good so I decided to make it on the mouth of the cylinder barrel. First cut out the square of gasket, allowing about 1/2" inch all round to cover any mishaps - the gasket size being 3 inches by 2 and5/8". Defining the dead centre of this piece of gasket material I put a pin hole in it and placed this pin hole in the centre of the cylinder aperture; then I proceeded to press my thumb, slowly and precisely, round the the outline of the barrel, on both the outer and inner edges , then, while making sure that the paper doesn't move, also making sure that I get a good outline of the apertures on either side of the barrel. It was an easy job to cut this centre piece out with a hobby knife set. Then replace the gasket (which will now fit neatly) over the mouth of the barrel; then carefully make impressions of the 4 screw holes - not forgetting the little hole close to the inner edge of the barrel. This explanation is for the good of anyone taking on this task.
I've been advised to just use a good quality grease, more to hold the gasket in place. I have a tube of Servisol sylicon grease which I was using on old taperecorders - was thinking of using it.

Gerdo


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## Gerdo (Feb 27, 2012)

_piston again and noticed a little roughness or abrations at one end ot the 'pin entrance or exit (pics enclosed). I have since worked on it by placing a light piece of card over the area and lightly tapping with a small hammer, making sure that I was tapping inward towards the centre of the aperture.
My Nikon D70 was top of the league when I bought it, but now on blowing up part of a pic, you 
see that its 6000 pixels are lacking sharpness.
_
I have attached pics of my mods to the bruised gudgeon pin aperture and, in the process, have found which of my lenses are better; this was taken with a Nikkor telephoto, the pic was cropped to 530 pixels and then blown up to 3000 pixels; this time no break up. The piston seems smooth to the touch. I was wondering if a light rub withe 1000 abrasive paper would be advisable.

Thanks for any advice or tips from anyone.
Gerdo


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## BrocLuno (Feb 27, 2012)

*Well now ...*

The aluminum piston is fairly soft, so easy to get those marks. The retainer ring groove is the critical bit. If it gets sloppy, the pin will move on you and end up scoring the cylinder wall  The Area outside the retainer groove is less critical. A small countersink and a bit of easing will remove the "bruises". The pin should be a snug but movable fit.

Over here we call them Wrist Pins - different names, same thing 

Grease is good for gaskets, except when you really want to make sure you have a good vacuum seal. Then I go to goops that will let go with time and tension. Hypalon is good at that and will seal a slightly uneven or pitted surface.

Looks like you are making good progress. Just go slow and don't force anything


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## Gerdo (Feb 29, 2012)

BrocLuno said:


> Looks like you are making good progress. Just go slow and don't force anything



Ye, I was going great yesterday; got the piston and rings reinstalled without to much trouble and was pleased with the compression. I then fitted the muffler and tried for a spark, by touching the wire that connects to the stp/strt switch to the saw frame; no spark, so I decided take off the flywheel and check the points etc. Now, I had watched U tube vids of this being done, and from what I had seen and heard from other sources it seemed to me that the flywheel was anti-clockwise thread ie. turn to the right to unscrew and turn lleft to tighten. So I stopped the piston with a pliable electric lead and proceeded to turn the screw or nut to the right; as it was not budging I got a length of piping to give me more leverege; still no move so I give it another great pull and.....the nut broke off with the piece of bolt inside. As if to add irony to agony, when I examined the nut I found that it was loose on the piece of bolt and - came off by turning to the left so, clockwise thread. Feeling disgusted, I now want to know: was this an act of utter stupidity on my part or what? I know there many members on this forum who have had a wide experience of dealing with awkward chainsaw problems, so I would greatly value any or all your suggestions or comments, even if some are not complementary.

Gerdo


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## SawTroll (Feb 29, 2012)

Forgot to say, the 621 really _needs_ the 3/8x8 rim sprocket that was standard, if you want decent chain speed, as the max hp rpm is as low as 7700, and there are a lot of torque! 

Also, I have never heard of another saw model that had a Nikasil cylinder, before the 621 came out for 1970. Mine is a 1970, most likely bought in may 1970, as far as I was able to find out, from the statements from my FIL, Witchy and her brother. The serial number seems to confirm that it is a very early one, and it has a starter cover with only 3 rows of holes, mostly connected to the older 62. I have seen only one other 621 with it (just pictures), all other "621s" with an earlier serial number have later been identified as 62s, and not 621s, as far as I remember (there are a few visiable clues, apart from the holes in the starter cover, but not everyone is aware of those).


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## BrocLuno (Feb 29, 2012)

*Ouch on the Mag Nut ...*

That's way too bad. Too much force. Things should come with a normal wrench.

Only hope at this point is to carefully dress the end of the crank flat (file), find the exact center and drill & tap for a retainer bolt with heavy duty washer that will hold the flywheel on. Otherwise it's a replacement crankshaft. I'd use Grade 8 bolt at minimum. You need 5 threads, or more, to get correct torque for the new bolt.

If this is a one time build and toss (?), you could always JB Weld the flywheel on after roughing up both surfaces. But, I would never do that to a premium saw, only to a beater.


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## Gerdo (Feb 29, 2012)

_


SawTroll said:



Forgot to say, the 621 really needs the 3/8x8 rim sprocket that was standard, if you want decent chain speed, as the max hp rpm is as low as 7700, and there are a lot of torque! 

Also, I have never heard of another saw model that had a Nikasil cylinder, before the 621 came out for 1970. Mine is a 1970, most likely bought in may 1970, as far as I was able to find out, from the statements from my FIL, Witchy and her brother. The serial number seems to confirm that it is a very early one, and it has a starter cover with only 3 rows of holes, mostly connected to the older 62. I have seen only one other 621 with it (just pictures), all other "621s" with an earlier serial number have later been identified as 62s, and not 621s, as far as I remember (there are a few visiable clues, apart from the holes in the starter cover, but not everyone is aware of those).

Click to expand...

_
SawTroll, your are a mine of info. My 621 serial number is: 387686, and I was told that it was like to be a 1970 or 1971 model. It has an 8 sprocket drive and 3/8" pitch; suggested chain is Chisel. It seems that it was Mahle who introduced the Nikasil cylinder plating.


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## Gerdo (Feb 29, 2012)

BrocLuno said:


> That's way too bad. Too much force. Things should come with a normal wrench.
> 
> Only hope at this point is to carefully dress the end of the crank flat (file), find the exact center and drill & tap for a retainer bolt with heavy duty washer that will hold the flywheel on. Otherwise it's a replacement crankshaft. I'd use Grade 8 bolt at minimum. You need 5 threads, or more, to get correct torque for the new bolt.
> 
> If this is a one time build and toss (?), you could always JB Weld the flywheel on after roughing up both surfaces. But, I would never do that to a premium saw, only to a beater.



Thanks for input BrocLuno, as for me, it's a case of 'being wise after the event' Both *bama* and *heinman (Mark)* gave me links to the Owner's Manual, which I duly downloaded, processed it in photo editing software and printed out on photo glossy paper in A4 format. Yes I went through it and learned a lot from it, but I should have referred to again before undertaking the flywheel removal because: on page 5 of the manual, under Clutch Needle Bearing. the following is written: *"NOTE* that the nut has a left hand thread and must not be turned clockwise for slackening" 
But now to deal with the situation as is: I will take your advice and familiarize myself with the points you made. I hope I haven't done any damage to piston, jug or crankcase bearings.

Gerdo


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## BrocLuno (Mar 1, 2012)

Very likely you have only lost the end of the shaft. It's bummer, but not the end of the world. 

Go ahead and get the flywheel off and clean up the points and such. A dab of points rubbing block lube and polish the "cam" surface. Then it's back together. I put a thin layer of grease on the crank taper so it's easier to get off next time - real thin like just the amount you can wipe on with finger as thin as possible.

With the flywheel on you should find a washer that will just fit inside the flywheel bore. Use that washer as a guide to start the drill in the center. Once you have the center found and started, use a small drill to "pilot" the crank in about 1/2" or so. Then use a bigger drill the right size for the tap you'll use to get down that same 1/2" or so, maybe a smidge more - you are not in a high stress bearing area, so you go maybe 5/8" deep. 

All clean and straight, then thread. Do about a 1/2 turn of the tap at a time with oil. Back out, clean and go down the next bit. When the tap bottoms stop - go grind the point off the tap until it's flat on the end - go back and finish tapping to the bottom of the hole. DO NOT FORCE THE TAP - if it breaks you are toast. It's very hard steel and will not come out short of a machine shop.

OK, hole is built. Find the right retaining washer for the flywheel. It will need to be the same on the outside as the one that came off, but the hole will have to match your new bolt size. You might have to mod a washer? I'd use a Allen or Torx cap screw in either SS or Grade 5 or above. All oil out of threads and a drop of RED LOCKTITE on the bolt and in it goes maybe 15 lb ft of torque (or whatever it's rated at) and walk away. Let the locktite set-up for 24 hours before you mess with it any more. Should be good to go 

Good luck


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## Gerdo (Mar 6, 2012)

BrocLuno said:


> Very likely you have only lost the end of the shaft. It's bummer, but not the end of the world.
> 
> Go ahead and get the flywheel off and clean up the points and such. A dab of points rubbing block lube and polish the "cam" surface. Then it's back together. I put a thin layer of grease on the crank taper so it's easier to get off next time - real thin like just the amount you can wipe on with finger as thin as possible.
> 
> ...



Thanks BrocLuno, that is a really well explained procedure, which I would hope to take on, eventually. I've just felled and sawed up 2 trees over this last couple of days; one was a fairly large one (24" at widest); my neighbour, with his tractor and front bucket , helped with the dropping of this is one. But I did get something done to the 621: I have the promise of a crankshat coming in the near future, and with this in mind I decided to go ahead and split the saw . I will have the advantage of checking the seals and related. Then, hopefully, I will get onto the repair crankshaft as you describe. But I will have to aquaint myself well, and do dummy runs, to avoid 'becoming toast' LOL. I am stuck at the moment on the drive side: I have stripped down to the clutch but can't figure a way to remove it, advice would be really helpful.


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## BrocLuno (Mar 6, 2012)

*If ...*

I recall correctly, the clutch is inboard of the sprocket? If so, it is likely retained by a nut on the end of the crank? And, being on the opposite side will be LEFT HANDED. LOOK OVER VERY CLOSELY before you try to turn. You should see threads showing at the end of the shaft.

Put the piston stop in the top of the cylinder and bring the piston to a halt. Then just turn the nut off with a normal wrench. The clutch should come off after the nut.


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## SawTroll (Mar 6, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> _
> _
> SawTroll, your are a mine of info. My 621 serial number is: 387686, and I was told that it was like to be a 1970 or 1971 model. It has an 8 sprocket drive and 3/8" pitch; suggested chain is Chisel. It seems that it was Mahle who introduced the Nikasil cylinder plating.



Yes, the original Nikasil is a Mahle thing!


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## SawTroll (Mar 6, 2012)

BrocLuno said:


> I recall correctly, the clutch is inboard of the sprocket? If so, it is likely retained by a nut on the end of the crank? And, being on the opposite side will be LEFT HANDED. LOOK OVER VERY CLOSELY before you try to turn. You should see threads showing at the end of the shaft.
> 
> Put the piston stop in the top of the cylinder and bring the piston to a halt. Then just turn the nut off with a normal wrench. The clutch should come off after the nut.



As I recall it, the clutch is _outboard_. I had to take it off to replace the sprocket rim.


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## bama (Mar 6, 2012)

BrocLuno said:


> I recall correctly, the clutch is inboard of the sprocket? If so, it is likely retained by a nut on the end of the crank? And, being on the opposite side will be LEFT HANDED. LOOK OVER VERY CLOSELY before you try to turn. You should see threads showing at the end of the shaft.
> 
> Put the piston stop in the top of the cylinder and bring the piston to a halt. Then just turn the nut off with a normal wrench. The clutch should come off after the nut.



Yes, but to take off the clutch hub you will need a puller. 




SawTroll said:


> As I recall it, the clutch is _outboard_. I had to take it off to replace the sprocket rim.



Niko.....The 621 has an inboard clutch. Once you take off the retaining nut, just slide off the washer and then you can replace the rim or the spur.


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## RandyMac (Mar 6, 2012)

I have a hand-guard to put on it. Need to find a B&C for it.


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## SawTroll (Mar 6, 2012)

bama said:


> ....
> 
> Niko.....The 621 has an inboard clutch. Once you take off the retaining nut, just slide off the washer and then you can replace the rim or the spur.



OK, my memory obviously was off in this case, the thing I really remembered was that nut. I remember that I needed a piston stop to get it off......


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## SawTroll (Mar 6, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> I have a hand-guard to put on it. Need to find a B&C for it.



One of the few that still has the plug cover - looks really nice! :msp_smile:


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## bama (Mar 6, 2012)

All the 621's I have come across are missing the plug cover. Must have been a PIA for service or there would be more around.


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## RandyMac (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks ST!
I think it is a great little saw. The quality of manufacture is evident. I'm thinking a 20" bar would be just about right.


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## Cantdog (Mar 6, 2012)

Yes as bama said you will need a puller to remove the clutch. The crankshaft is tapered with a key that holds the clutch on as well as the lefthand threaded nut.. Try to NOT remove the clutch spring and shoes as the spring is really hard to reinstall without distorting it... I turned a wooden cone on the lathe with base the same dia as the spring retaining groove so I can simply roll the spring down the cone expanding it to the proper size.


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## Gerdo (Mar 7, 2012)

BrocLuno said:


> I recall correctly, the clutch is inboard of the sprocket? If so, it is likely retained by a nut on the end of the crank? And, being on the opposite side will be LEFT HANDED. LOOK OVER VERY CLOSELY before you try to turn. You should see threads showing at the end of the shaft.
> 
> Put the piston stop in the top of the cylinder and bring the piston to a halt. Then just turn the nut off with a normal wrench. The clutch should come off after the nut.



I have attached some pics of exactly where I am in dismantleing the 621. At least I hope I can attach some; last night I tried for ages but all I got when I pressed 'Manage Attachments' was a black screeen.  Still a black screen.
Well, first I removed the nut - clockwise.(to the right) which came off easily; then the sprocket; then lift off the cover; next the ignition system; next the bearings,washers and lastly the large washer or disc. At this point I'm looding at the clutch itself.


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## Gerdo (Mar 7, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> Yes as bama said you will need a puller to remove the clutch. The crankshaft is tapered with a key that holds the clutch on as well as the lefthand threaded nut.. Try to NOT remove the clutch spring and shoes as the spring is really hard to reinstall without distorting it... I turned a wooden cone on the lathe with base the same dia as the spring retaining groove so I can simply roll the spring down the cone expanding it to the proper size.




As I stated elsewhere, I had pics to attach of the sequence of stripping down to the clutch, but I can't attach - all I get is black screen. Yes, I have noticed that the clutch is easily knocked out of shape.


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## Gerdo (Mar 7, 2012)

bama said:


> Yes, but to take off the clutch hub you will need a puller.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Definitely, the clutch, since it is composed of a number of parts inside the spring, requires a 'handle with care' sign. I was looking at pullers on eBay and various, but it is hard to tell which one would be right for this particular job as there is a limited amount of space between the clutch and the saw frame.


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## heimannm (Mar 7, 2012)

It's been a while since I've been in one of the 621's but I believe there are three tapped holes in the clutch spider. Unless I am confusing it with another saw, I made a puller out of a large washer with three holes, screws through the washer into the clutch, then used my gear puller to get it apart.

I have taken the spring out of the clutch a few times and struggled to get it back together but always have managed so far with no ill effects.

Mark


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## bama (Mar 7, 2012)

heimannm said:


> It's been a while since I've been in one of the 621's but I believe there are three tapped holes in the clutch spider. Unless I am confusing it with another saw, I made a puller out of a large washer with three holes, screws through the washer into the clutch, then used my gear puller to get it apart.
> 
> I have taken the spring out of the clutch a few times and struggled to get it back together but always have managed so far with no ill effects.
> 
> Mark



You're right Mark. I used a plate and placed a socket under it to push against the crankshaft so that as I tightened the three bolts, I pulled the spider off. Now, I have a universal puller I bought off of ebay several years ago.


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## Gerdo (Mar 7, 2012)

heimannm said:


> It's been a while since I've been in one of the 621's but I believe there are three tapped holes in the clutch spider. Unless I am confusing it with another saw, I made a puller out of a large washer with three holes, screws through the washer into the clutch, then used my gear puller to get it apart.
> 
> I have taken the spring out of the clutch a few times and struggled to get it back together but always have managed so far with no ill effects.
> 
> Mark



Thanks Mark, now I'm seeing the picture a whole lot clearer: The object of the operation is to first pull the centre piece or spider out of the clutch assembly while keeping the rest in situ. The choice of puller is greatly widened then, and the option you suggest seems real good.


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## Gerdo (Mar 7, 2012)

bama said:


> You're right Mark. I used a plate and placed a socket under it to push against the crankshaft so that as I tightened the three bolts, I pulled the spider off. Now, I have a universal puller I bought off of ebay several years ago.



bama, you guys are great; I've just been thanking Mark and saying how the explanations have given me a clearer idea of what's involved in removing the clutch - so I can apply that to you also.
And your version of removal also sounds logical.
So, if I don't make one myself, I can buy a universal one. :biggrin:


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## SawTroll (Mar 7, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Thanks ST!
> I think it is a great little saw. The quality of manufacture is evident. I'm thinking a 20" bar would be just about right.



16" here, but a 20" should be fine! :msp_smile:


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## bama (Mar 7, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> bama, you guys are great; I've just been thanking Mark and saying how the explanations have given me a clearer idea of what's involved in removing the clutch - so I can apply that to you also.
> And your version of removal also sounds logical.
> So, if I don't make one myself, I can buy a universal one. :biggrin:



Make sure you put the nut back on the threads so you don't mess them up when you use the puller if you make one. Universal puller has a tapered tip on the center threaded rod that keeps the threads nice.


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## Gerdo (Mar 9, 2012)

Well, I have the clutch removed; I didn't have the tools or material and am pushed a bit for time, what with large beech tree to de-limb, some music practice to ger in etc. So, I took it to Nigel at the local auto repairs in Markethill. I had three long M5x70mm, Machine screw bolts which fitted the threw screw holes in the clutch, he had about a 2" dia x 1/2" deep steel gadget that had holes around it into which he screwed the m5s, then he screwed a middle bolt and used his pullers. After a goodeal of pressure there was no movement from the spider, so got the gas heat and after a minute or so of this there was a loud pop, and the whole assembly literally jumped off the crankshat. I had, as Mark suggested, a bit of juggling trying to get the spring and parts together again. Then I hit on an idea, which turned out to be the answer: As I could get the spring into the groove to just above the halfway mark, I put it in the vice, then it was fairly simple to work it over the rest - but have some covering on the fingers. Now, I think I have all nuts and bolts removed, so how do I split the case? I found some other threads that talked around this subject but did not explain the actual doing. Your suggestions will be appreciated.

Gerdo


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## heimannm (Mar 9, 2012)

Here is a photo of a tool I made to press the crankshaft out of a Jonsered 930 saw (may have been a 910, don't remember right not) but the point is you must press the crankshaft out. You cannot separate the halves by prying, you will break the case and I have a broken 621 I keep as a reminder. 

Do some more searching and you will be able to find a few good threads with photo's to take you through the whole operation. I put one together on the 930 rebuild, and a former member and Stihl genius Lakeside53 put together an excellent thread on the same subject on a Stihl model with lots of photo's of his home made tools and the real Stihl products.











Mark


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## bama (Mar 9, 2012)

heimannm said:


> Here is a photo of a tool I made to press the crankshaft out of a Jonsered 930 saw (may have been a 910, don't remember right not) but the point is you must press the crankshaft out. You cannot separate the halves by prying, you will break the case and I have a broken 621 I keep as a reminder.
> 
> Do some more searching and you will be able to find a few good threads with photo's to take you through the whole operation. I put one together on the 930 rebuild, and a former member and Stihl genius Lakeside53 put together an excellent thread on the same subject on a Stihl model with lots of photo's of his home made tools and the real Stihl products.
> 
> Mark



If you are very patient, you can split the case halves without a puller, but my tradeoff was that I ended up re-balancing the cranks since I was tapping on the end with a rawhide mallet. Also, I ended up with scratches from the chisels I used. I have not taken more than a dozen or so apart and some were to salvage the case. I intend on making a puller this summer.


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## bama (Mar 9, 2012)

heimannm said:


> Here is a photo of a tool I made to press the crankshaft out of a Jonsered 930 saw (may have been a 910, don't remember right not) but the point is you must press the crankshaft out. You cannot separate the halves by prying, you will break the case and I have a broken 621 I keep as a reminder.
> 
> Do some more searching and you will be able to find a few good threads with photo's to take you through the whole operation. I put one together on the 930 rebuild, and a former member and Stihl genius Lakeside53 put together an excellent thread on the same subject on a Stihl model with lots of photo's of his home made tools and the real Stihl products.
> 
> Mark



910 case. I can see the ignition in the recoil. Glad I am not the only one who forgets what saw is in the picture! After awhile, they all kind of get blurred up in my head.

Picked up some Jonsie parts from a guy in the twin cities, Mark. Brian was his name.....liked studebakers. We ended up making a decent trade for the parts. Lots of stuff I can use. He said you took all the yellow stuff....of course.


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## bama (Mar 9, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> Well, I have the clutch removed; I didn't have the tools or material and am pushed a bit for time, what with large beech tree to de-limb, some music practice to ger in etc. So, I took it to Nigel at the local auto repairs in Markethill. I had three long M5x70mm, Machine screw bolts which fitted the threw screw holes in the clutch, he had about a 2" dia x 1/2" deep steel gadget that had holes around it into which he screwed the m5s, then he screwed a middle bolt and used his pullers. After a goodeal of pressure there was no movement from the spider, so got the gas heat and after a minute or so of this there was a loud pop, and the whole assembly literally jumped off the crankshat. I had, as Mark suggested, a bit of juggling trying to get the spring and parts together again. Then I hit on an idea, which turned out to be the answer: As I could get the spring into the groove to just above the halfway mark, I put it in the vice, then it was fairly simple to work it over the rest - but have some covering on the fingers. Now, I think I have all nuts and bolts removed, so how do I split the case? I found some other threads that talked around this subject but did not explain the actual doing. Your suggestions will be appreciated.
> 
> Gerdo




Make CERTAIN you have all the bolts out of the crankcase or it will be bad news. I missed a bolt once on a saw that had its case eaten away, so at least I didn't destroy a good part.


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## Gerdo (Mar 10, 2012)

heimannm said:


> Here is a photo of a tool I made to press the crankshaft out of a Jonsered 930 saw (may have been a 910, don't remember right not) but the point is you must press the crankshaft out. You cannot separate the halves by prying, you will break the case and I have a broken 621 I keep as a reminder.
> 
> Do some more searching and you will be able to find a few good threads with photo's to take you through the whole operation. I put one together on the 930 rebuild, and a former member and Stihl genius Lakeside53 put together an excellent thread on the same subject on a Stihl model with lots of photo's of his home made tools and the real Stihl products.
> 
> ...



I did more searching and came across quite a few useful posts, and on YouTube there were quite a few vids of splitting cases. One was of a chap splitting a husky with what looked like the same tool as you were using. Actually, this is the second time I am replying to your post...and _bama's_ I had also pictures attached, but whatever grem is im my system, when I finished editing text in the post and pressed the 'submit' or 'save' button I lost the lot. But, today I got the case split by taking a small block of wood and while pressing it against the case, tapping sharply with a small hammer - doing this all the round. Then I took a small straight head screw driver and placing the screwing edge in the join, I lightly tapped, again, all the way around. After about ten minutes or less, I noticed a small space appearing in the join; I increased the pressure a little and the case split sweetly. Thanks for the pics.

Gerdo


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## Gerdo (Mar 10, 2012)

bama said:


> Make CERTAIN you have all the bolts out of the crankcase or it will be bad news. I missed a bolt once on a saw that had its case eaten away, so at least I didn't destroy a good part.



That is so true; on a YouTube vid today, a chap was in the processing of removing the bolts and at the same time going on about 'there are bolts all over the place' and so there are. But I took your advice of patience and finally got the case split without a special, as you'll see in my post to Mark.
Thanks


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## Gerdo (Mar 12, 2012)

I will try again and show a couple of pics of where I'm at, inclluding a rather odd feature: in the oil chamber just below the filler, there is a tiny hole with a tiny pin going through it, pushed through from the outside, then the 2 ends bent back agains the case.

PS, obviously these pic were before the wash, the seals seem OK, they seem pliable and intact.


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## Gerdo (Mar 12, 2012)

This is after I washed the case with white spirit, scraping away loose and flaky paint.


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## BrocLuno (Mar 12, 2012)

If the screwdriver left any marks in the mating surfaces, I'd be putting a dab of JB Weld in very carefully block sanding flat. Those are sometimes places where a vacuum leak can develop ...


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## bama (Mar 12, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> I will try again and show a couple of pics of where I'm at, inclluding a rather odd feature: in the oil chamber just below the filler, there is a tiny hole with a tiny pin going through it, pushed through from the outside, then the 2 ends bent back agains the case.
> 
> PS, obviously these pic were before the wash, the seals seem OK, they seem pliable and intact.



That is the tank vent for the oil tank. Pretty simple design, but effective!


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## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 12, 2012)

bama said:


> 910 case. I can see the ignition in the recoil. Glad I am not the only one who forgets what saw is in the picture! After awhile, they all kind of get blurred up in my head.
> 
> *Picked up some Jonsie parts from a guy in the twin cities, Mark. Brian was his name.....liked studebakers.* We ended up making a decent trade for the parts. Lots of stuff I can use. He said you took all the yellow stuff....of course.



So....that's who got those! That's okay....I didn't have the $$ or trading power to do anything with them! Glad they didn't end up on evilbay! We had passed a few PMs about the parts.

I just got a 621....any extra parts in bunch for it? For starters, mine is missing the top hand guard. 

It's no surprise that the yellow stuff went south!

Oh....anyone have a service manual for the 621? I sent Mark H a PM about one, but he must be out of the country... or away from internet access.


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## bama (Mar 12, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> So....that's who got those! That's okay....I didn't have the $$ or trading power to do anything with them! Glad they didn't end up on evilbay! We had passed a few PMs about the parts.
> 
> I just got a 621....any extra parts in bunch for it? For starters, mine is missing the top hand guard.
> 
> ...



No service manual here. I just had the owner's manual. Not sure if I have an extra top handle. I can check, though. I found a few things I can use right now and more that I will sit on for awhile. I did lots of sorting and identifying with those parts!

traded a VERY nice 625II for the parts. By nice, I mean it looked (and was) in VERY good condition, except for the clutch cover. I had no extra chain brake (I kept the one I had because I switch it between the saws I run).


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## Gerdo (Mar 12, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> So....that's who got those! That's okay....I didn't have the $$ or trading power to do anything with them! Glad they didn't end up on evilbay! We had passed a few PMs about the parts.
> 
> I just got a 621....any extra parts in bunch for it? For starters, mine is missing the top hand guard.
> 
> ...



I have a copy of the 621 manual, thanks to Mark H and bama who sent me the links. I have messed with it somewhat and brought it up to A4 size I will try and copy it for you, but not to night , If that is Ok.


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## Cantdog (Mar 12, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> I will try again and show a couple of pics of where I'm at, inclluding a rather odd feature: in the oil chamber just below the filler, there is a tiny hole with a tiny pin going through it, pushed through from the outside, then the 2 ends bent back agains the case.
> 
> PS, obviously these pic were before the wash, the seals seem OK, they seem pliable and intact.



That pin is aptly called a "wiggle pin" and is used in many aplications besides chainsaws to keep a vent or drain open by wiggling and keeping the hole from becoming clogged.

As far as seals go...replace them when you reassemble...don't trust old seals no matter how good them seem....it will add like $15.00 to the cost of the rebuild and is worth $100.00 in peace of mind in the future....plus if you have problems on start up it will be one less thing to question.


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## Gerdo (Mar 12, 2012)

BrocLuno said:


> If the screwdriver left any marks in the mating surfaces, I'd be putting a dab of JB Weld in very carefully block sanding flat. Those are sometimes places where a vacuum leak can develop ...



I didn't do any noticeable damage with the screwdriver, but when removing the gasket with a glass scraper, I did nick the case on the outer side; not deep, just a sloping gash, I'll send a pic tomorrow. I was intending to use one of those weld type filler glues. Yes, I would expect that a long expanse of join like this would be under severe test. the gasket that came off seemed fairly thick.


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## Gerdo (Mar 12, 2012)

bama said:


> That is the tank vent for the oil tank. Pretty simple design, but effective!



Does it have a role in controlling air to the tank?


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## Gerdo (Mar 12, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> That pin is aptly called a "wiggle pin" and is used in many aplications besides chainsaws to keep a vent or drain open by wiggling and keeping the hole from becoming clogged.
> 
> As far as seals go...replace them when you reassemble...don't trust old seals no matter how good them seem....it will add like $15.00 to the cost of the rebuild and is worth $100.00 in peace of mind in the future....plus if you have problems on start up it will be one less thing to question.



Thanks for the info and advice Cantdog. The seals seem pliable and no sign of cracks, but since I already got a pair from Chainsawr.com, I think your reasoning is very wise...I will replace them.


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## Cantdog (Mar 12, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> Does it have a role in controlling air to the tank?


READ post #90......Gerdo


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## Cantdog (Mar 12, 2012)

Oh.... I see you did LOL!!! As I said before the "wiggle pin" keeps the vent from being clogged by moving this way and that by vibration and using the saw in various postions.


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## Gerdo (Mar 12, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> READ post #90......Gerdo



Sorry Cantdog, should have concentrated more.:redface:


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## Cantdog (Mar 12, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> Thanks for the info and advice Cantdog. The seals seem pliable and no sign of cracks, but since I already got a pair from Chainsawr.com, I think your reasoning is very wise...I will replace them.





Yes once you are at the point you are with the cases split you really want to use new main bearings and new seals as these can be sourced at a good bearing house. Just a bit of unasked advise if I were you I would also source an good used crankshaft rather than fuss with a broken one....not that it can't be done but we are still in an era when they can still be found.......if you really, really need it I can send you one from a project 621 I have..or I can look around for one for you. Trying to "fix" one is/should be a last resort. Again just trying to be helpful.....from my experience.....perhaps you could search "49sp and 70E Build from scratch" on the sites search feature...though not a 621...most all the stuff in there will pertain to your situation...as all these saws are very similar, and the sequence of events the same....lots of pics...


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 12, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> I have a copy of the 621 manual, *thanks to Mark H and bama who sent me the links*. I have messed with it somewhat and brought it up to A4 size *I will try and copy it for you, but not to night *, If that is Ok.



A PM with the link to the manual will suffice (if that's okay...I don't want to be too forward). You don't need to go to the bother of making a hard copy for me!

OH.....I don't need the top handle....I need to top hand guard. 

Thanks!

Dan


----------



## bama (Mar 12, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> A PM with the link to the manual will suffice (if that's okay...I don't want to be too forward). You don't need to go to the bother of making a hard copy for me!
> 
> OH.....I don't need the top handle....I need to top hand guard.
> 
> ...



You bringing it up to collector status? I may have one of those, as well. I don't like to use them as they just got in the way when I used the 621. I will PM you if I find it.


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 13, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> A PM with the link to the manual will suffice (if that's okay...I don't want to be too forward). You don't need to go to the bother of making a hard copy for me!
> 
> OH.....I don't need the top handle....I need to top hand guard.
> 
> ...



I had to change the file format to jpg, which took a while...hope it works.

Gerry


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 13, 2012)

*621 Manual*

The next batch, since I p rocessed them they are much bigger files.


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 13, 2012)

*621 Manual*

The next,.


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 13, 2012)

*621 Manual*

etc. etc.


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 13, 2012)

*621 Manual*

etc. etc


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 13, 2012)

*621 Manual*

ultimate


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 15, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> I had to change the file format to jpg, which took a while...hope it works.
> 
> Gerry



Replaces attachments: 621 1

621mx: missing page


----------



## SawTroll (Mar 15, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> I had to change the file format to jpg, which took a while...hope it works.
> 
> Gerry



Same as I have, only my manual is in Swedish. :msp_smile:


----------



## bama (Mar 15, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Same as I have, only my manual is in Swedish. :msp_smile:



How are the northern lights over there, Niko? your town is one of the top 5 places to see them, according to CNN.


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 15, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> Yes once you are at the point you are with the cases split you really want to use new main bearings and new seals as these can be sourced at a good bearing house. Just a bit of unasked advise if I were you I would also source an good used crankshaft rather than fuss with a broken one....not that it can't be done but we are still in an era when they can still be found.......if you really, really need it I can send you one from a project 621 I have..or I can look around for one for you. Trying to "fix" one is/should be a last resort. Again just trying to be helpful.....from my experience.....perhaps you could search "49sp and 70E Build from scratch" on the sites search feature...though not a 621...most all the stuff in there will pertain to your situation...as all these saws are very similar, and the sequence of events the same....lots of pics...



Thanks Cantdog, very good advice and appreciated; I read 49sp too...some good advice there too and some of it your own. I haven't got near the 621 this few days; was clearing up after some cuts. Thanks for your offer to send me a crankshaft and help me find parts, that's real decent. The position at this minute, as regards the crankshaft is: heimannm Mark offered to send me one, which I accepted; he is otherwise engaged at the monent, so I will hold on that until I find if his offer is still available.
I removed one of the seals today and it was a bit of a chore...at least the way I did it, poking it out from the inside. But I feel that the plates that hold the seals might remove and make it easier, is that right?.


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 15, 2012)

BrocLuno said:


> If the screwdriver left any marks in the mating surfaces, I'd be putting a dab of JB Weld in very carefully block sanding flat. Those are sometimes places where a vacuum leak can develop ...



I was surprised to find that the glue that I count the strongest is the 2 part JB Weld that you recomended. I went round the casing's gasket surfaces and filled in a few small gashes with it, sanded it will send pics 2morrow.


----------



## wendell (Mar 15, 2012)

I'm still trying to figure out what RandyMac was doing in here. 

My small contribution to the thread.


----------



## RandyMac (Mar 15, 2012)

It is a red saw Wendell


----------



## wendell (Mar 15, 2012)

True enough, your Emperorness. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 16, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> I was surprised to find that the glue that I count the strongest is the 2 part JB Weld that you recomended. I went round the casing's gasket surfaces and filled in a few small gashes with it, sanded it will send pics 2morrow.



Pics


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 16, 2012)

wendell said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what RandyMac was doing in here.
> 
> My small contribution to the thread.



Tidy looking pics.


----------



## SawTroll (Mar 16, 2012)

wendell said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what RandyMac was doing in here.
> 
> My small contribution to the thread.



Looks like an early one. :msp_smile:


----------



## SawTroll (Mar 16, 2012)

bama said:


> How are the northern lights over there, Niko? your town is one of the top 5 places to see them, according to CNN.



Lots of nice ones this winter, but Tromsø is just where the Hospial is - not "my town". :msp_wink:


----------



## bama (Mar 16, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Lots of nice ones this winter, but Tromsø is just where the Hospial is - not "my town". :msp_wink:



Interesting. I am sure than they were better than we had here.


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 20, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> Yes once you are at the point you are with the cases split you really want to use new main bearings and new seals as these can be sourced at a good bearing house. Just a bit of unasked advise if I were you I would also source an good used crankshaft rather than fuss with a broken one....not that it can't be done but we are still in an era when they can still be found.......if you really, really need it I can send you one from a project 621 I have..or I can look around for one for you. Trying to "fix" one is/should be a last resort. Again just trying to be helpful.....from my experience.....perhaps you could search "49sp and 70E Build from scratch" on the sites search feature...though not a 621...most all the stuff in there will pertain to your situation...as all these saws are very similar, and the sequence of events the same....lots of pics...



The seals that I got from Chainsawr.com were the new rubberized type so I didn't need to use the steel rings or containers. Should I keep them flush with the outside of the case, or a little bit recessed or further in?

I have sourced a good bearing supplier here in UK... they need to know the following: bore, diameter and width. By any chance, would you happen to have this info...thanks.


----------



## Cantdog (Mar 20, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> The seals that I got from Chainsawr.com were the new rubberized type so I didn't need to use the steel rings or containers. Should I keep them flush with the outside of the case, or a little bit recessed or further in?
> 
> I have sourced a good bearing supplier here in UK... they need to know the following: bore, diameter and width. By any chance, would you happen to have this info...thanks.



Seals should go in flush or just very, very slightly recessed.

The bearings you will need are; 6202 C-3 a very standard bearing. These could be from FAG or SKF to name a couple...SKF being the OEM for Jonsereds. Although, interestingly my 621 IPL calls for a different bearing than the 601. 751, 66E, 70E, 80, 90, which all take the 6202 C-3 bearing and I am 99.9% positive the 621 does as well...I will have to check on this when I get to the shop and will get back to you later today. Perhaps the bearing # in my IPL simply got superceeded to another #....???


----------



## bama (Mar 20, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> Seals should go in flush or just very, very slightly recessed.
> 
> The bearings you will need are; 6202 C-3 a very standard bearing. These could be from FAG or SKF to name a couple...SKF being the OEM for Jonsereds. Although, interestingly my 621 IPL calls for a different bearing than the 601. 751, 66E, 70E, 80, 90, which all take the 6202 C-3 bearing and I am 99.9% positive the 621 does as well...I will have to check on this when I get to the shop and will get back to you later today. Perhaps the bearing # in my IPL simply got superceeded to another #....???



You are right, Cantdog. The 621 uses the 6202-3 bearing. That is what I put in mine when I rebuild them.


----------



## Cantdog (Mar 20, 2012)

bama said:


> You are right, Cantdog. The 621 uses the 6202-3 bearing. That is what I put in mine when I rebuild them.[/QUOTE
> 
> Thanks bama I was pretty darn sure that was the case but am reluctant to risk giving incorrect info..if I have any doubt..


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 20, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> bama said:
> 
> 
> > You are right, Cantdog. The 621 uses the 6202-3 bearing. That is what I put in mine when I rebuild them.[/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## Cantdog (Mar 20, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Cantdog said:
> 
> 
> > Cantdog.....just wondering if you got my PM?
> ...


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 20, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Cantdog said:
> 
> 
> > Cantdog.....just wondering if you got my PM?
> ...


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 20, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> bama said:
> 
> 
> > You are right, Cantdog. The 621 uses the 6202-3 bearing. That is what I put in mine when I rebuild them.[/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## Cantdog (Mar 20, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> Cantdog said:
> 
> 
> > You were so spot on _Cantdog_ - as was _bama_. I googled the info you gave me and came up with a good bearing shop that had the 6202C3..SKF or FAG. Bore: 15mm, diameter: 35mm and width: 11mm. They also suggested products I might need when fitting them, like a medium locking or binding solution. Again, opinions invited.
> ...


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 20, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> Gerdo said:
> 
> 
> > No need for any type of loktite or similar. Everything is an interference fit. Warm the bearings in an oven 15-20 mins @220-240 degrees F and they will fall right in place on a room temp crankshaft. Likewise heat a case half to 160-180 degrees F for 20 mins and you can install the crank and bearing in the case half. Put the other case half in the oven for the same length of time and assemble the two. The heat from the second case will conduct back over to the first, heating that to the point where you can shift the crank/bearings left and right to achieve a centered con rod. If you find that you have any problem with things not simply slipping together extend the time or increase the heat slightly ( or both). It should all be able to be put together by hand, no banging or tapping with a hammer needed same with centering the crank but you must make sure you have EVERYTHING ready as the window closes in just a few mins. Don't forget your oil pump drive cam ( this can be heated in the oven too) nor your case gasket and have at least four screw ready to pull the whole thing together before it cools.. Oh and I put the seals in after assembly, though they can withstand these temps I perfer not to have to worry about prolapsing a seal in the midst of assembly as you need to be quick. Again most all this is covered in detail in the 49SP and 70E build thread..
> ...


----------



## Cantdog (Mar 20, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Cantdog said:
> 
> 
> > Great write up!
> ...


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 20, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> Gerdo said:
> 
> 
> > No need for any type of loktite or similar. Everything is an interference fit. Warm the bearings in an oven 15-20 mins @220-240 degrees F and they will fall right in place on a room temp crankshaft. Likewise heat a case half to 160-180 degrees F for 20 mins and you can install the crank and bearing in the case half. Put the other case half in the oven for the same length of time and assemble the two. The heat from the second case will conduct back over to the first, heating that to the point where you can shift the crank/bearings left and right to achieve a centered con rod and free spinning crankshaft. If you find that you have any problem with things not simply slipping together extend the time or increase the heat slightly ( or both). It should all be able to be put together by hand, no banging or tapping with a hammer needed same with centering the crank but you must make sure you have EVERYTHING ready as the window closes in just a few mins. Don't forget your oil pump drive cam ( this can be heated in the oven too) nor your case gasket and have at least four screw ready to pull the whole thing together before it cools.. Oh and I put the seals in after assembly, though they can withstand these temps I perfer not to have to worry about prolapsing a seal in the midst of assembly as you need to be quick. Again most all this is covered in detail in the 49SP and 70E build thread..
> ...


----------



## Gerdo (Mar 21, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> Cantdog said:
> 
> 
> > Like _manyhobies_ said: "Great write up" Thanks _Cantdog_ Will reply tomorrow.
> ...


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 21, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> Gerdo said:
> 
> 
> > No need for any type of loktite or similar. Everything is an interference fit. Warm the bearings in an oven 15-20 mins @220-240 degrees F and they will fall right in place on a room temp crankshaft. Likewise heat a case half to 160-180 degrees F for 20 mins and you can install the crank and bearing in the case half. Put the other case half in the oven for the same length of time and assemble the two. The heat from the second case will conduct back over to the first, heating that to the point where you can shift the crank/bearings left and right to achieve a centered con rod and free spinning crankshaft. If you find that you have any problem with things not simply slipping together extend the time or increase the heat slightly ( or both). It should all be able to be put together by hand, no banging or tapping with a hammer needed same with centering the crank but you must make sure you have EVERYTHING ready as the window closes in just a few mins. Don't forget your oil pump drive cam ( this can be heated in the oven too) nor your case gasket and have at least four screw ready to pull the whole thing together before it cools.. Oh and I put the seals in after assembly, though they can withstand these temps I perfer not to have to worry about prolapsing a seal in the midst of assembly as you need to be quick. Again most all this is covered in detail in the 49SP and 70E build thread..
> ...


----------



## bama (Mar 21, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Cantdog said:
> 
> 
> > manyhobies said:
> ...


----------



## Gerdo (Apr 9, 2012)

*Back to the 621 again!*

An eventful time this past while, but back again to the 'red. The situation as of today, regarding the 621 restore is: The crankshaft arrived from _heimann_ Mark some time ago, and is fitted with 2 new bearings and its oil pump cam. The bearings were not too bad to fit using the heat method as described by cantdog , although I didn't use the cooker for heat; I have an open fire here with a fender round it. This will get very hot, so I a placed a samll masonary brick tight up against it and set the bearings on it. When a lit drip of water or a spittle sizzles on the brick it is very hot; I tried fitting the bearing s at this stage, but they only dropped so far on the shaft and then binded, but thanks to the Hilka 14 piece bearing splitter and puller that I got on ebay It was easy to remove them. About 3 attempts I got the heat right and they literally dropped to the bottom of the shaft. But the oil pump cam was a real wee ^^%$£$%... no matter how hot I heated it it still refused to drop the full; I then realised that I could pull it the rest of the way with Hilka kit. The main gasket for the case I have cut out with hobby knife set. But I still needed to find out, what goes on inside this case? This is a relatively small machine but, given that it's in good nick and doing what it does, it's a real 'hellcat'. Then a bit of a study of the 2 stroke engine and quite a lot of reading on 'how stuff works' has wised me up a little. But, there is still one apalling lack of info on the 621 oil pump...how does it work? how do you remove it? etc. In one of my pics I show what I think must be a piston coming out from the pump..... when I go to refit it it seem to be blocked in some way, yet I can't figure how to remove the pump. Now I get of my soap box. Thanks for all you help.


----------



## bama (Apr 9, 2012)

You pull that oil pump from the front of the saw to the left of the muffler. You take out the silver plug with an allen wrench. Then you will see two bolts. Remove them both and then thread in a muffler bolt(long one). Grab it with a vice grip pliers and pull to get the oiler to come out. If you try to put the crank in with that piston, you will brake the piston. I have done this....once! Once the oiler is out, the install will go fine!


----------



## Gerdo (Apr 9, 2012)

bama said:


> You pull that oil pump from the front of the saw to the left of the muffler. You take out the silver plug with an allen wrench. Then you will see two bolts. Remove them both and then thread in a muffler bolt(long one). Grab it with a vice grip pliers and pull to get the oiler to come out. If you try to put the crank in with that piston, you will brake the piston. I have done this....once! Once the oiler is out, the install will go fine!



Thanks _bama_, yes I seen that prob right away, with the oil piston in the way...I had the end screw out of the oil pump but was not sure how to go about removing it.


----------



## Gerdo (Apr 11, 2012)

*621 oil pump removal*



Gerdo said:


> Thanks _bama_, yes I seen that prob right away, with the oil piston in the way...I had the end screw out of the oil pump but was not sure how to go about removing it.



_bama[/I I'm enclosing a pic of where I'm at with the oil pump; I may have misunderstood your meaning,:msp_confused: but I didn't get anywhere with the 2 long muffler screws. As you'll se, I have the large screw and the small plug screw with the adjuster in it removed; it's what should be my next move?:msp_confused:_


----------



## bama (Apr 11, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> _bama[/I I'm enclosing a pic of where I'm at with the oil pump; I may have missunderstood your meaning,:msp_confused: but I didn't get anywhere with the 2 long muffler screws. As you'll se, I have the large screw and the small plug screw with the adjuster in it removed; it's what should be my next move?:msp_confused:_


_

Oops, Gerdo! I was thinking about a 70e when I wrote about the two screws. With the plug removed (it should screw out), then you grab the adjustment screw (put it back in) with a needle nose pliers and give a good pull(or several jerks). Sorry about the wrong saw info! There will be a few small parts (spring and washer if I remember) that come out when you pull the oiler. Do it somewhere that allows you to find them if they fall out!

You might also be able to grab onto the lip of the oiler (where the two flat spots are) and grab from there._


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Apr 12, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> _bama[/I I'm enclosing a pic of where I'm at with the oil pump; I may have misunderstood your meaning,:msp_confused: but I didn't get anywhere with the 2 long muffler screws. As you'll se, I have the large screw and the small plug screw with the adjuster in it removed; it's what should be my next move?:msp_confused:_


_

Your pic embeded....see my sig for help if you want.





_


----------



## Gerdo (Apr 12, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Your pic embeded....see my sig for help if you want.




I didn't get your meaning, and there was no attachment or link. But I've decided to bypass the pump removal, in the hope that it is OK. Thanks any how.i


----------



## Gerdo (Apr 12, 2012)

bama said:


> Oops, Gerdo! I was thinking about a 70e when I wrote about the two screws. With the plug removed (it should screw out), then you grab the adjustment screw (put it back in) with a needle nose pliers and give a good pull(or several jerks). Sorry about the wrong saw info! There will be a few small parts (spring and washer if I remember) that come out when you pull the oiler. Do it somewhere that allows you to find them if they fall out!
> 
> You might also be able to grab onto the lip of the oiler (where the two flat spots are) and grab from there.



I've decided to bypass the pump removal...too much to loose if I foul up and I don't understand well enough the makeup of the pump or how it is installed. So. hoping that mine is OK`I've gone for refit...see pics. #when I had the oil pump piston inserted again I was able to push it well into the pump, then when I had the bearing partly entered into its place I held it it with a small flat head screwdriver and whacked the crankshaft on the floor a couple of times and all went well. I need to check that all is in the case before I close it; do I need to flood the place with oil, do I need to put grease roun the bearings; I think the gasket could benefit from some grease...but good to be 'homeward bound.``


----------



## wendell (Apr 12, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> I didn't get your meaning, and there was no attachment or link.



He embedded your picture for you and told you that if you would like to learn how to do it yourself, there is a link in his signature which gives the instructions.

That way, we can see your pictures, rather than having to open up each picture you attach to your posts.


----------



## bama (Apr 13, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> I've decided to bypass the pump removal...too much to loose if I foul up and I don't understand well enough the makeup of the pump or how it is installed. So. hoping that mine is OK`I've gone for refit...see pics. #when I had the oil pump piston inserted again I was able to push it well into the pump, then when I had the bearing partly entered into its place I held it it with a small flat head screwdriver and whacked the crankshaft on the floor a couple of times and all went well. I need to check that all is in the case before I close it; do I need to flood the place with oil, do I need to put grease roun the bearings; I think the gasket could benefit from some grease...but good to be 'homeward bound.``



Glad you made it work without taking it out. Some 2-cycle mix in the bearings will be fine. no grease necessary. I grease my gaskets. Some do, some dont. Works for me.


----------



## Gerdo (Apr 14, 2012)

wendell said:


> He embedded your picture for you and told you that if you would like to learn how to do it yourself, there is a link in his signature which gives the instructions.
> 
> That way, we can see your pictures, rather than having to open up each picture you attach to your posts.



Thanks wendell_[/I ,I wasn't wise to that 'lark' but I will have to take time out to study it, it makes the post more smooth to follow._


----------



## Gerdo (Apr 14, 2012)

bama said:


> Glad you made it work without taking it out. Some 2-cycle mix in the bearings will be fine. no grease necessary. I grease my gaskets. Some do, some dont. Works for me.



I just hope I haven't damaged the pump messing about with it .. although I didn't exert any great pressure on it. It did seem that there would be a prob getting the bearing installed with the piston protruding, but the bonus point was that there is a space between the cam and the bearing housing, which allows a small flat head screwdriver to hold the piston flat against the housing; then, with the bearing already part way into its place, knock the bearing (whole crank) into place. To give you some mental idea of how I did that: I'm left handed; I'm holding the heated half of the case in my right hand; the screwdriver in my left; the bearing is part into its housing; I place the flat head screwdriver over the piston and push down hard until the piston is out of the way. Now, while still holding down the piston pull the head of the screwdriver back very cautiously until it is only on half of the piston. Now, holding everything steady, hit the head of the crankshaft on a hard surface...I hit it off the floor as I was sitting...it took about two whacks to do the job. What you've said about oiling and/or greasing is consistent with what I've heard from others.


----------



## Gerdo (Apr 19, 2012)

bama said:


> Oops, Gerdo! I was thinking about a 70e when I wrote about the two screws. With the plug removed (it should screw out), then you grab the adjustment screw (put it back in) with a needle nose pliers and give a good pull(or several jerks). Sorry about the wrong saw info! There will be a few small parts (spring and washer if I remember) that come out when you pull the oiler. Do it somewhere that allows you to find them if they fall out!
> 
> You might also be able to grab onto the lip of the oiler (where the two flat spots are) and grab from there.


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Apr 19, 2012)

Gerdo said:


>



Hay......nice pic!


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Apr 19, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> vhjhljView attachment 234438



Right click on link text......select 'copy image location' .......click on 'insert image' button on top....... select tab 'from url' click on text box....hold down the 'ctrl' key and push the 'v' key (past).....uncheck the little box....(Retrieve remote file and reference locally ..)


----------



## Gerdo (Apr 20, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> This is my chainsaw bar - a Sandvik:



More pics:








Does anyone think that there is serious damage to this bar? see bottom pic.
Specs as engraved in bar: Sandvik 7 /0 - 44mm Made in Sweden. and on the bottom: 1.47mm/ .058" 3/8/56 70 930 48. What does that tell you about the bar?


----------



## Gerdo (Apr 20, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> More pics:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The sprocket:


----------



## BrocLuno (Apr 21, 2012)

0.058 guage, 3/8 pitch, 56 drive links, etc.


----------



## Gerdo (Apr 22, 2012)

BrocLuno said:


> 0.058 guage, 3/8 pitch, 56 drive links, etc.



Thanks_ BrocLuno_ good to hear from you again. I'm gradually getting to know these essential statistics. I have a mini crisis on hands at the minut: I overtightened a bolt while tightening the two halves case together. Could JB Weld help out here, or would it be better to get a tap and tie set? I have an old one but some of the items are missing from it.


----------



## Gerdo (May 8, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> Thanks_ BrocLuno_ good to hear from you again. I'm gradually getting to know these essential statistics. I have a mini crisis on hands at the minut: I overtightened a bolt while tightening the two halves case together. Could JB Weld help out here, or would it be better to get a tap and die set? I have an old one but some of the items are missing from it.



Well, then I mentioned that I had one overtightened nut, but as I carried on with joining of the case I discovered another one that wasn't tightening properly so, maybe not my fault afterall. The first one was on lthe flywheel side,top left underneath the piston. I tapped it with a slightly larger size 5mm tap, and a little deeper, and sent to England for matching bolts. Then I clamped the 2halves together, very tightly, with two clamps. I mixed a small amount of JB Weld and, with a narrow screwdriver worked it down into the first hole, making sure that I got it in around the threads; screwed home the bolt to fairly tight - the clamped state of the case meant I didn't have to go too tight. I did the same with the 2nd one but used the same bolt. So, that is still a bit of an unknown quantity as far as success is concerned. I have the clutch side fitted, with a bit of help from CC site. I've had the flywheel on and off again because 'there seems to be nobody home' - at least I haven't been able to find a spark of any kind, though my efforts at finding one haven't been very thorough...mainly because of lack of knowhow. I did discover a good post by _Cantdog_ on this subject so I would need to aquaint myself more with the subject. And of course, all help or advice would be appreciated. One thing that I did discover was a joined wire coming from the points - had been joined about 3" from the coil, but I don't think that would be all the prob.


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## Gerdo (May 9, 2012)

Pic of failed bolts:
View attachment 237504


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## Gerdo (Jun 15, 2012)

*Meanwhile, back at the 621*

The situation with my 621 project now is: I put the body together, 'cept the bar and chain, and put a supply of fuel and oil in the compartments, just to test the case for leaks. The next morning my heart sank when I felt fluid under the the case, but on checking further, it was oil coming out at the filter where there is a triangular gasket and cover. There was good compression on the starter 'handle' and no sign of fuel leak. No sign either of a spark, but have discovered that the top coil is dead... not passing a signal of any kind between its 2 leads. I have one ordered. The one item that I know is not performing perfect is the carb: a new upgrade kit fitted but it was still leaking a bit on the last time put together; I have it fitted and was intending to attempt a start up with it, just to see what affect it would have on the running of the saw. 
Does anyone know what or how a leaking carb would affect the saw running? I exp it would affect the smooth running of the saw.

Gerry


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 15, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> The situation with my 621 project now is: I put the body together, 'cept the bar and chain, and put a supply of fuel and oil in the compartments, just to test the case for leaks. The next morning my heart sank when I felt fluid under the the case, but on checking further, it was oil coming out at the filter where there is a triangular gasket and cover. There was good compression on the starter 'handle' and no sign of fuel leak. No sign either of a spark, but have discovered that the top coil is dead... not passing a signal of any kind between its 2 leads. I have one ordered. The one item that I know is not performing perfect is the carb: a new upgrade kit fitted but it was still leaking a bit on the last time put together; I have it fitted and was intending to attempt a start up with it, just to see what affect it would have on the running of the saw.
> Does anyone know what or how a leaking carb would affect the saw running? I exp it would affect the smooth running of the saw.
> 
> Gerry



The JBweld thread fix may fail during running. (I do hope I'm wrong!)

Nice build! 

I don't know if I mentioned in this thread that my 621 fuel tank is leaking and I will be splitting the case and installing a new gasket. I've been following this thread. Come to think about it, the saw was running a bit strange the last time I ran it and there's a possibility of the gasket failing in the crankcase area too. I haven't tested it.

Where is your carb leaking? Pic?


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## heimannm (Jun 15, 2012)

It is likely that if the carburetor is leaking, the mixture will be too rich to run.

Check the coil again, there should be high resistance (3-5K ohms) from the ground to the secondary (spark plug) wire, almost no resistance from the ground to the primary lead where the point connect.

Mark Heimann


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## bama (Jun 15, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> The JBweld thread fix may fail during running. (I do hope I'm wrong!)
> 
> Nice build!
> 
> ...



It sure is a concern, but hopefully, with adequate tension on the cylinder, it will help with the pressure on the affected bolt. Not much room for a timesert in there, but maybe it could be drilled through and a longer bolt with a locknut placed behind the clutch?


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## Gerdo (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks _manyhobies_, _heimann,_ and_ bama_ for posts, I will reply later.

Gerdo


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## SawTroll (Jun 15, 2012)

BrocLuno said:


> 0.058 guage, 3/8 pitch, 56 drive links, etc.



Yes, and that was the most common combination in Europe, with an 8-pin rim.


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## Gerdo (Jun 16, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> The JBweld thread fix may fail during running. (I do hope I'm wrong!)
> 
> Nice build!
> 
> ...



Yes, there is that possibility that it may not hold under working conditions, but then again there is the possibility that it might, so I'm banking in the 'glass half full' scenario..lol But if I got that far I would still count it a success....for this reason - this might sound a bit crazy but here it is: We are used to talking about 'dead matter' and 'inanimate objects', our own physical bodies will one day, also be so called 'inanimate objects' - the life force or soul will have gone out of them. In a sense, thats's what happened to this Jonsereds 621...the fuel that keeps it 'alive' is, in the final analysis, trapped sunshine, as is the fuel that keeps us going; it needs to breathe the same air as we do, and amazingly, the atoms and molecules that make up it parts are the same atoms and molecus that make up our physical bodies. Then, the one/s who created it did so with the intent that it would operate in a certain manner and perform a specific task... a mission in life you might call it. So, it's more than 'dead matter' and I would like to bring this 'creature' back to life.

The carbureto is leaking at the hole that is marked with an arrow; the first time I put it back together put it in bown of water, bubbles were coming out of all parts of it. So I'll just have to keep going ti I get it right.


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## Gerdo (Jun 16, 2012)

*the*



SawTroll said:


> Yes, and that was the most common combination in Europe, with an 8-pin rim.



I think that was my chain off the 621 you were referring to. On my working saw the recommended chain is micro chisel, but I think on the 621 it is a full chisel that is recommended. The chisel has a lot mor bite than a micro chisel, wouldn't you say.


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## Cantdog (Jun 16, 2012)

You either have the gasket and diaphram swapped in the top cover or you have a punctured diaphram. That hole is just a vent. The fuel pump diaphram goes on first,( the one with two little flappers) then the gasket, (the one with the lage round hole) then the cover. The diaphram also has a point in one corner that should point towards the corner where the choke rod attaches.


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## Gerdo (Jun 16, 2012)

heimannm said:


> It is likely that if the carburetor is leaking, the mixture will be too rich to run.
> 
> Check the coil again, there should be high resistance (3-5K ohms) from the ground to the secondary (spark plug) wire, almost no resistance from the ground to the primary lead where the point connect.
> 
> Mark Heimann



This I need to know Mark: in what situ do you test the coil, I'v only tested it on its own as a conductor, ie between the thick black lead and the oposite small wire, but by your post it would seem that it needs to be connected in its operating position.


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## SawTroll (Jun 16, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> I think that was my chain off the 621 you were referring to. On my working saw the recommended chain is micro chisel, but I think on the 621 it is a full chisel that is recommended. The chisel has a lot mor bite than a micro chisel, wouldn't you say.



Yes, and stay with chisel as long as it doesn't get dull too fast, due to "dirty" wood. :msp_wink:

Micro chisel is a variant of semi chisel, with a narrower cutting corner.


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## Gerdo (Jun 16, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> You either have the gasket and diaphram swapped in the top cover or you have a punctured diaphram. That hole is just a vent. The fuel pump diaphram goes on first,( the one with two little flappers) then the gasket, (the one with the lage round hole) then the cover. The diaphram also has a point in one corner that should point towards the corner where the choke rod attaches.



Cantdog, after I fitted the first kit and put it back together, as I said elsewhere, there were bubbles every where. I took it down and rechecked against blow up in the manual and found that I had the pump membrane in the wrong place. Yes, I know that the arrowed hole is the breather for the pump, in other words where the carb gets its air from. But, in other place I've read that bubbles coming from here suggests a leaking or loose gasket and likewise, bubbles coming from other parts suggest something else. However, I will take it down again and recheck.

Thanks for your help.


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## Gerdo (Jun 16, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Yes, and stay with chisel as long as it doesn't get dull too fast, due to "dirty" wood. :msp_wink:
> 
> Micro chisel is a variant of semi chisel, with a narrower cutting corner.



The profile of the cutters is indeed very interesting, and in my short time using a chainsaw I've learned that no matter what saw you have, if you don't have a well sharped chain, you ain't goin anywhere.


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## tbone75 (Jun 16, 2012)

Been checking out this thread! I have a 621 I am working on.Just fired it up for the first time yesterday,but its not running very good.Put a kit in the carb,but acts like it still has some dirt in there some where?


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## Gerdo (Jun 16, 2012)

tbone75 said:


> Been checking out this thread! I have a 621 I am working on.Just fired it up for the first time yesterday,but its not running very good.Put a kit in the carb,but acts like it still has some dirt in there some where?



It looks real good; what all did you do to it?


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## Gerdo (Jun 16, 2012)

bama said:


> It sure is a concern, but hopefully, with adequate tension on the cylinder, it will help with the pressure on the affected bolt. Not much room for a timesert in there, but maybe it could be drilled through and a longer bolt with a locknut placed behind the clutch?



Yes, I did drill it a bit longer and now that you mention it, a longer bolt could be used to accomodate a nut. Good suggestion. Hope the band is still going strong.


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## Gerdo (Jun 16, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> It looks real good _tbone 75_;what all did you do to it? /QUOTE]


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## tbone75 (Jun 16, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> It looks real good; what all did you do to it?



Not much,just carb kit on/off switch and muffler bolts. LOL It was that clean when I got it from another member. A little paint on the top cover would make it look almost new. Only other thing it need is the plastic air filter cover.Has a chunk missing on a corner. Very well built saw!


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## Gerdo (Jun 16, 2012)

tbone75 said:


> Not much,just carb kit on/off switch and muffler bolts. LOL It was that clean when I got it from another member. A little paint on the top cover would make it look almost new. Only other thing it need is the plastic air filter cover.Has a chunk missing on a corner. Very well built saw!



You have been lucky,very few have their plug cover..it would be possible make one. They do look sad looking when the top cover and body paint gets muddy and dark; a quick flick or 2 with an aerosol can work wonders for its looks - and its feelings..lol!


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## jerrycmorrow (Jun 16, 2012)

Gerdo said:


> The starter spring is broken...



where is the spring broken? if at one of the ends you may be able the effect a temporary repair. little heat, needle-nosed pliers and you have a spring that may be able to help you turn the motor for starting. done it before, may even turn into a long term repair. at least until it breaks again, lol.
edit: never mind! just finished reading the entire thread. including post #40. still.....


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## Gerdo (Jun 16, 2012)

jerrycmorrow said:


> where is the spring broken? if at one of the ends you may be able the effect a temporary repair. little heat, needle-nosed pliers and you have a spring that may be able to help you turn the motor for starting. done it before, may even turn into a long term repair. at least until it breaks again, lol.
> edit: never mind! just finished reading the entire thread. including post #40. still.....



jerrycmorrow, that was from an early post...I had that problem and that was an option I was considering but I got a replacement. Thanks!


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## Gerdo (Jun 16, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> You either have the gasket and diaphram swapped in the top cover or you have a punctured diaphram. That hole is just a vent. The fuel pump diaphram goes on first,( the one with two little flappers) then the gasket, (the one with the lage round hole) then the cover. The diaphram also has a point in one corner that should point towards the corner where the choke rod attaches.



some pics of carb as I had it set up when the slow loss of pressure, and the change of pump membrane which caused a much quicker loss.


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## Gerdo (Jul 18, 2012)

*Sparks don't fly on my 621*

Well, Iv'e been at other stuff this past while so didn't get anything more done to the 621. The top coil has been replaced so attention has shifted to the lower ignition where no trace of spark can be found. So, is it a faulty coil or points? I have cleaned the points somewhat but didn't dig in too deep. I don't know how to test these areas so any tips or advice would be welcome. Do I look out for replace coil or both?


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## Treefirtwo (May 14, 2013)

*Jonsered 621 still going strong*

Just finished taking down and fire-wooding a bunch of hardwoods with my trusty J-621. Not a beauty to look at but still strong, sturdy and dependable!


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## Cantdog (May 15, 2013)

Treefirtwo said:


> Just finished taking down and fire-wooding a bunch of hardwoods with my trusty J-621. Not a beauty to look at but still strong, sturdy and dependable!



Actually that's a very nice looking 621...fairly low hrs......not a lot of riding around in a pickup beating the paint off it.....The red is excellent....the silver is shabby as always. Nice one!!! It'll run forever.....barring some accident......


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## spike60 (May 15, 2013)

Cantdog said:


> .....The red is excellent....the silver is shabby as always.



Silver always looks good on my Jonnys. On some where it doesn't even belong. :msp_w00t:


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## Treefirtwo (May 15, 2013)

*Any idea of the J-621 value?*



Cantdog said:


> Actually that's a very nice looking 621...fairly low hrs......not a lot of riding around in a pickup beating the paint off it.....The red is excellent....the silver is shabby as always. Nice one!!! It'll run forever.....barring some accident......



Actually, I'm thinking of putting it up on my local Craigslist because I also have a 20" Husky 372XP to keep me busy, plus a dinky 14" Echo CS-310 which is nonetheless quite handy for me at age 74. There are no collectors in my area so the Jred would appeal only in practical terms. Despite it's low hours and problem-free operation, given its vintage I'm wondering what to consider asking. Does $195 sound too steep? (I still have orig. $528.31 invoice from 10/23/81 which according to an online inflation calculator = a very unrealistic $1,352.87 in 2013 dollars!!!)


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## spike60 (May 15, 2013)

Treefirtwo said:


> Actually, I'm thinking of putting it up on my local Craigslist because I also have a 20" Husky 372XP to keep me busy, plus a dinky 14" Echo CS-310 which is nonetheless quite handy for me at age 74. There are no collectors in my area so the Jred would appeal only in practical terms. Despite it's low hours and problem-free operation, given its vintage I'm wondering what to consider asking. Does $195 sound too steep? (I still have orig. $528.31 invoice from 10/23/81 which according to an online inflation calculator = a very unrealistic $1,352.87 in 2013 dollars!!!)



$195??? Doesn't sound steep; sounds more like Disneyland. Way too much for a saw that old for which parts are largely unavailable. $100 would be tops IMO.


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## Treefirtwo (May 15, 2013)

spike60 said:


> $195??? Doesn't sound steep; sounds more like Disneyland. Way too much for a saw that old for which parts are largely unavailable. $100 would be tops IMO.



Many thanks. Appreciate the input. Given how hard this saw can still work, and how little $100 can buy these days (think of the last trip to the grocery store), I'll probably hang onto it until something irreparably breaks and then donate it to Goodwill or take it to the scrap metal yard. I've got seven spare chains for it, gathered over the years, some which have almost all their meat left. Hope those wear out before the saw dies.


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## spike60 (May 15, 2013)

Treefirtwo said:


> Many thanks. Appreciate the input. Given how hard this saw can still work, and how little $100 can buy these days (think of the last trip to the grocery store), I'll probably hang onto it until something irreparably breaks and then donate it to Goodwill or take it to the scrap metal yard. I've got seven spare chains for it, gathered over the years, some which have almost all their meat left. Hope those wear out before the saw dies.



Exactly. There's plenty of work left in that old girl. Way more value than what you could get for it.

Old saws have appeal to us guys here on the site, and some of us are addicted to the old Jonnys. But even for us, they are common enough that there's no need to pay much for one. For the general public, a saw like a 621 is considered a little too old to own, let alone pay close to $200 for. 

Keep her in the family!


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## SawTroll (May 15, 2013)

spike60 said:


> Silver always looks good on my Jonnys. *On some where it doesn't even belong*. :msp_w00t:



You are saying that just to annoy me! :msp_biggrin:


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## Eccentric (May 15, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> You are saying that just to annoy me! :msp_biggrin:



Nah. That sort of thing never happens here Niko.


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## spike60 (May 15, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> You are saying that just to annoy me! :msp_biggrin:



Well, I've come up with a practical reason to create a couple of extra "silver top" models: Helps to be able to tell them apart when you have several of the same model. Plus, had I been involved in the decision process back then, I would have voted to keep the tops silver a while longer. 

I may try a silver top 70E and see how she looks, even though I'll risk expulsion from the Jonsered collector's group. (I have an extra top to experiment with, so I can always go back to black. :msp_wink


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## joe25DA (May 15, 2013)

He wasnt too happy with me when I painted my 80 black, of course the saw ran terrible till I painted it silver again....


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## SawTroll (May 15, 2013)

spike60 said:


> .... *Plus, had I been involved in the decision process back then, I would have voted to keep the tops silver a while longer.*
> 
> ....



I have no problem with that, and actually agree - but it just wasn't what happened. 

You can't change history!


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## Cantdog (May 15, 2013)

joe25DA said:


> He wasnt too happy with me when I painted my 80 black, of course the saw ran terrible till I painted it silver again....




HAHAHAHA!!!! I was thinking of you as I was reading Bob's "colorful" post!!!!!LOLOL!!!!


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## spike60 (May 15, 2013)

joe25DA said:


> He wasnt too happy with me when I painted my 80 black, of course the saw ran terrible till I painted it silver again....



Yeah, I carried on like you painted a mustache on the Mona Lisa, then I did the same thing myself. :msp_rolleyes:


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## joe25DA (May 15, 2013)

I should post up a pic of the 621 I got recently. Its in great shape, even has the orig spark plug cover and oregon chain sticker.


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## SawTroll (May 15, 2013)

spike60 said:


> Yeah, I carried on like you painted a mustache on the Mona Lisa, then I did the same thing myself. :msp_rolleyes:



I don't care about Mona Lisa, but I do care about the old Jonsereds - they need to be kept as original as possible! :msp_wink:


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## Chris J. (May 16, 2013)

joe25DA said:


> I should post up a pic of the 621 I got recently. Its in great shape, even has the orig spark plug cover and oregon chain sticker.



Please do so ! 

And now I'm also subscribed to this thread (yes, I know how to subscribe using Forum Tools).


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## spike60 (May 16, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> I don't care about Mona Lisa, but I do care about the old Jonsereds - they need to be kept as original as possible! :msp_wink:



Yeah, but there are so many interesting colors on the paint display where I picked up the silver. :msp_biggrin:


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## Gerdo (May 16, 2013)

*'Parked Project'*



Gerdo said:


> Well, Iv'e been at other stuff this past while so didn't get anything more done to the 621. The top coil has been replaced so attention has shifted to the lower ignition where no trace of spark can be found. So, is it a faulty coil or points? I have cleaned the points somewhat but didn't dig in too deep. I don't know how to test these areas so any tips or advice would be welcome. Do I look out for replace coil or both?



Well I feel a bit guilty diving in here now; I was having great/or some fun on the 621 project until 'I hit the bumpers'. That was nearly a year ago, and I wouldn't have got so far if I hadn't had the help of guys on this site, and the other neighbouring site. Anyhow, I've had to 'park it' and move on to other things. but I would like to get get it running again, and probably be annoying you again for help.

Regards
Gerdo.


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## joe25DA (May 16, 2013)

*Here it is*

Looks to be an eraly 621, has the operator presence switch behind the trigger instead of on top. I got it with a few other good saws. I havent dug into it yet, as you can see I havenet even cleaned it. I was told it ran. It has very good compression, and the exh. port is clean. It is in good shape, has a little glove wear but other wise few very nice. It does have the plug cover, but is missing the hand guard. Or maybe it didnt have it? There are threaded bosses for one though. The silver should clean up and the red is in good shape. The Jred scabbard is a nice bonus and I believe the hardnose bar is original.


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## Cantdog (May 18, 2013)

Nice looking 621 there Joe......the paint on that top cover is the best I think I've even seen......it's pretty thin paint and doesn't generally last very well compared to the red parts!!


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## SawTroll (May 18, 2013)

joe25DA said:


> Looks to be an early 621.... ]



Early, yes - but likely not one of the earliest. What is the serial number?

Regardless, it looks really nice! :msp_biggrin:


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## joe25DA (May 18, 2013)

Thanks for the compliments! Especially from you 2. The serial is 860146


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## SawTroll (May 18, 2013)

joe25DA said:


> Thanks for the compliments! Especially from you 2. The serial is 860146



OK, not really early at all then - around 1977/78 from the info I have collected.


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## joe25DA (May 18, 2013)

I guess not. The operator switch location threw me off.


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## SawTroll (May 18, 2013)

joe25DA said:


> I guess not. The operator switch location threw me off.



The second "trigger" has nothing to do with operator presense, it is for setting "fast idle", in combination with the knob at the front of the top of the handle.


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## joe25DA (May 18, 2013)

Interesting. It will be a fun build when I get to it


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## Cantdog (May 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> The second "trigger" has nothing to do with operator presense, it is for setting "fast idle", in combination with the knob at the front of the top of the handle.



Actually Nikko..the second trigger is the presence lever.....which must be depressed before you can activate the high idle position using the button atop the trigger handle or throttle the saw up....I'm sure we are talking about the same thing....perhaps a difference in language ?? As far as I know the second trigger must be depressed in order to activate any of the other hand controls......


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## SawTroll (May 18, 2013)

Cantdog said:


> Actually Nikko..the second trigger is the presence lever.....which must be depressed before you can activate the high idle position using the button atop the trigger handle or throttle the saw up....I'm sure we are talking about the same thing....perhaps a difference in language ?? As far as I know the second trigger must be depressed in order to activate any of the other hand controls......



You likely are right, I just never really notised, as it gets depressed anyway when you grip the handle to run the saw!


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## joe25DA (May 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> You likely are right, I just never really notised, as it gets depressed anyway when you grip the handle to run the saw!



I know the other 621 had the lever on top.


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## SawTroll (May 18, 2013)

joe25DA said:


> I know the other 621 had the lever on top.


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## joe25DA (May 18, 2013)

SawTroll said:


>



It think it did.


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## joe25DA (May 18, 2013)

Nope it didnt!


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## SawTroll (May 18, 2013)

I would like to see that "other 621".....


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## joe25DA (May 19, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> I would like to see that "other 621".....



Its on the 3rd or 4th page here. I looked last night and sure enough the lever is underneath as well.


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## SawTroll (May 19, 2013)

joe25DA said:


> Its on the 3rd or 4th page here. I looked last night and sure enough the lever is underneath as well.



That adds up! :msp_smile:


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## bulletpruf (Nov 19, 2018)

Figured I would bump this ancient thread since I'm working on one of my 621's. It's #351448. Pretty clean, but that didn't stop me from spending all day disassembling and cleaning it up. It had 196 psi and ran on a prime. Piston has a slight scuff, but jug looks good. I have a carb kit and some Caber rings on the way.

Looks to be fairly original, but the muffler looks like it's from a 601.

What do you guys do to remove light scuffs/scratches from a piston? 1000 grit sandpaper? Super fine steel wool?

Thanks

Scott


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## bulletpruf (Nov 19, 2018)

And here's where we are now...


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## heimannm (Nov 19, 2018)

I normally "wet sand" a piston that need some clean up in the part washer with some medium fine emery cloth. Same goes for a crankshaft that needs a bit of clean up.

You don't really take much off with emery and a bit of elbow grease.

Mark


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## bulletpruf (Nov 19, 2018)

heimannm said:


> I normally "wet sand" a piston that need some clean up in the part washer with some medium fine emery cloth. Same goes for a crankshaft that needs a bit of clean up.
> 
> You don't really take much off with emery and a bit of elbow grease.
> 
> Mark



Thanks, Mark.


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