# The Woodsman cometh



## xander9727 (Apr 22, 2004)

I'm trying out my final chipper tomorrow. It's a woodsman 15X, if it performs as well as Koa Man and Chris Nelson (from woodsman) say it does it will be staying with me. I have tried a bandit 150 and 250, Vermeer 1230 and bc1000, morbark 2010-D and model 13. I like the bandit the best so far. Koa Man has given me a REALLY good price and it's an out of state sale (no tax). Also the woodsman has a cummins engine and has standard most of the options I want. I'll let you know how it stacks up to the other chippers.


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## Tom Dunlap (Apr 22, 2004)

I know four tree companies in the Twin Cities that have gotten Woodsman chippers and all of them are very pleased with the performance.

If I was in the market I would be looking hard at this one.

Tom


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## xander9727 (Apr 23, 2004)

Tom,
I looked long and hard and I purchased it today. This is the greatest chipper ever built. It says it's a 15" chipper but I put several 16" logs in today no problem. This is the heaviest built chipper I have ever seen. It sucks in and destroys 12" black locust logs like balsa wood. It will pull in an crush crotches every bit as well as the Bandit and far better than the morbark or vermeer chippers. It has a 24" wide drum that allows for huge bundles of brush or multiple smaller logs. The hydraulics are very powerful and react instantaneously. Mine has the auto-reversing option and it works seemlessly. I just can't get over how well this chipper operates. I'll be running it a lot over the next couple of months so I'll keep you updated.

Just so everyone knows, I purchased this chipper through Koa Man. He gave me an awesome price and because it was purchased from a dealer in Hawaii and they are made out of state I save $2500 in sales tax. Like all of the other chipper companies Woodsman has raised their prices due to the Tier 2 emissions requirements and the steel surcharge. Wesley honored the price he gave me last month which saved me additional money. I cannot say enough good stuff about this guy. He is a truly genuine an honest man. He took the time to talk and email me multiple times to answer my questions and ensure I got the chipper that satisfied my needs. If your looking for a chipper your a fool if you don't talk to Koa Man. Do what I did, try all of the other chippers first so you know what you want, like and need. Then run a Woodsman and you'll find a chipper that does everything well. Thank you Wesley for being a friend and helping my company to grow.


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## Koa Man (Apr 23, 2004)

xander9727,
Thanks for the kind words Tod, I was glad to help you out. I'll be happy to do the same for any other AS member looking for a Woodsman chipper. I am even happier than the chipper's performance exceeded your expectations. Happy chipping.
BTW, what are you going to do with your Vermeer 620? Sometimes a small chipper is handy to have. That is why I kept my 9 inch Gravely, even after I got my 18X.


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## xander9727 (Apr 24, 2004)

I'm planning on selling my 620. I'll list it in the used equipment forum tonight. While the 620 definately made me money, I find it hard to use now that I've become accustomed to a larger chipper (I've been demoing big chippers for 6 weeks now). Even with small prunings you still need to cut almost all of the 2" and bigger crotches. This gets old very quick (especially when you own the greatest chipper in the world that will chip bigger logs than most men can carry) and the lost time isn't worth the ease of a smaller chipper. If I had a nine or ten inch chipper I would keep it as a backup or for smaller jobs. 

I do have to get used to the fact that my chipper now weighs 7000#. Kinda sunk in the yard yesterday and took a tow truck with a snatch block to get it out. I tried using my tractor (4 wheel drive 40 hp massey turbo diesel) and a 4 to 1 MA system and it wouldn't budge.


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## murphy4trees (Apr 24, 2004)

So what is the price today???


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## xander9727 (Apr 24, 2004)

For the 15x or the 620?


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## kf_tree (Apr 26, 2004)

who are the current owners of woodsman chippers? is Bob Engler still invilved with them?


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## xander9727 (Apr 26, 2004)

Just the model 13. The 12X and 15X are almost identical machines with the exception of the additonal capacity. The 15X has a 1" bigger drum and is 900# heavier. It wasn't the chipping capacity that sold me. It was the construction of the machine the feed system. The woodsman has a frame that goes under the entire infeed (except for the folding section). The bottom of the infeed all the way up to the drum is 1/2" plate. The sides and the folding feed tray are 1/4 steel (the folding section on the 12X is 3/16). The tires are rated at 4500# each and it has a 7000# axle. The entire chipper is really heavy duty. The only engines are Cummins and John Deere so service and reliability are not an issue. If you get a machine with a cat or a perkins there isn't the same dealer support IMHO. It was the only machine I found in the 12" range that has a full width 24" wide cutter. The 15" is also 24" wide but the 18" can be had with a 36" wide drum. I have yet to find something this thing won't do (operating within reason). Today I cut down several 10"-16" silver maples. I fed the entire tree in an only had to hit the down pressure 3 times for 5 trees. When the auto feed does cycle (on 10" and larger wood) it only takes a couple of seconds for the engine to recover. My unit has the reversing feature which speeds up recovery and reduces knife wear. We took down all 5 trees, ground the stumps and cleaned up in 4 hours. This included the time necessary to attach tag lines to all of the trees. The last tree was 20" in diameter and had to be rigged a little. We cut it off at 15" and fed it in to the chipper. The rest we cut into approx 14"-16" lengths. Just for fun I threw one of the rounds in the chipper. It took it without hesitation. In less than 2 minutes we chipped the rest of the tree. It was a lot easier to lift the logs into the infeed than it was the chipper truck. With the standard lift cylinder, getting the logs started is a breeze. I've never run a cone head or a salsco so I can't comment on them but, if I was a Bandit, Vermeer, or Morbark salesman I'd be scared. 
I'll keep you posted as I put more hours on the machine.


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## kf_tree (Apr 26, 2004)

xander9727

if you have time, call woodsman and ask them if that machine is designed and built to chip 15in wood day in day out. and please post their response.


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## xander9727 (Apr 26, 2004)

That is a good question. I would be inclined to say yes. Koa Man has an 18X that he uses to chip 18" wood regularly. In Hawaii you can dump chips for free but they charge by the ton for logs. He told me he cuts larger logs into 18" chunks and chips them. I will be calling woodsman tomorrow to order an extra set of knives and an anvil (I don't need them yet but I always had an extra set on hand for my other chipper) I'll ask them while I have them on the line. I'll post their response. I don't get 15" wood every day. I try and do more tree care than removals. The width is more important to me than the height. The drum width makes the difference when deciding how much brush a chipper can take.


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## Koa Man (Apr 27, 2004)

kf_tree,
No chipper is designed, as far as I know, to chip at their maximum capacity all day long. In fact, I don't know of any product, whether it be a chipper, generator, truck, chainsaw etc. that can run at its maximum output all day every day. I would say the safe guideline for any chipper is 2/3 of its max. cap. if you are going to run that size material all day. That means 8" stuff for a 12" machine, 10" for a 15" machine, etc.

If I am reading between the lines correctly, did you have a problem with Bob Engler (who is still the head of Woodsman) or their chipper? You can PM or email me if you don't want to post about it.


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## kf_tree (Apr 28, 2004)

koa 

i just wrote a very long response but since i'm on a public pc my log in timed out and it got lost. 

i owned a first generation 2018 and then a 2019 that were plauged with problems and i was flat out lied to by bob engler on the phone and in person. when i get a chance i'll write my history with woodsman


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## xander9727 (Apr 28, 2004)

I spoke today with Bob Engler today from Woodsman regarding the chipping capacity. He said that the machine is designed to chip 15" diameter material. He also added that this capacity is engineered and designed with certain specifications, the most important is sharp knives. He further extrapolated that the hammering caused by dull knives is what causes cracks and fatigue. So, as long as you maintain your knives in theory you can chip 15" material all day long. However, if you are going to chip 15" material rountinely then you should purchase an 18"-20" machine to increase productivity. My machine will chip 10" hard wood (oak, ash, locust, etc.) without cycling the autofeed. I would imagine that an 18" machine with 200hp would chip 13"-14" stuff without cycling (I am theorizing, I do not know this as fact). Since time is money, you would be better served with a machine that has a capacity greater than what you chip on a daily basis. I routinely need to chip 8"-10" material. I like having the added capacity to prevent lifting more logs than I have to. I am removing a river birch tomorrow. I look forward to sending the entire tree through. The job should take less than 45 minutes including clean up. With my 620 the same job would take 1.5 hours and require a lot more cutting, lifting and clean up. I look forward to chipping now.


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## treeman82 (Apr 28, 2004)

I know somebody who has a Model 17 Morbark. Supposedly that thing is meant to chip up to 15" of softwood, and 10 or 12" of hardwood on a regular basis. That thing has a pretty big engine though.


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## Koa Man (Apr 29, 2004)

kf_tree,
I am really sorry to hear of the bad experience you had with the early generation fo Woodsman chippers. I know you will probably never buy another one, but their present product is really very very good. I had the same problem with Morbark. I bought a Model 2036, which they told me would handle palm fronds without a problem. It would clog constantly. It was supposed to have a 17 inch capacity but struggled on stuff over 12 inches. It had a JD 110hp turbo diesel, the highest hp engine offered at that time. Autofeed was not an option in 1992. I was really sorry that I sold my Promark 400 chipper (12 in. machine) to buy this POS. I complained mightily to Morbark, but nothing was done. I was so glad to sell that thing 3 years later. That chipper has now evolved into the 2400, which is supposed to be one h*ll of a chipper with a 200hp engine. Many tree services here run them and seem very happy with it, but because of my previous experience, I will never buy another Morbark. I'm sure you feel the same way about Woodsman, but like I said in the beginning, their present product is very very good. I can honestly say my 18X is by far the best chipper I have ever run.
I either owned or have extensive experience with a Vermeer 1600, Promark 210, 310 and 400, Morbark Eeeger Beaver, 2036, and M17, Bandit 90, 95, 200 and 250, Gravely 395 and 12110. As xander9727 said earlier, try out the different chippers before you buy. If you do decide on a Woodsman, give me a holler and I'll get you better than "show special prices" with no sales tax to boot.


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## xander9727 (Apr 29, 2004)

Koa Man is a straight shooter! If you don't at least try a woodsman before you buy your next chipper your not a very good business man! You should try as many chippers as you can for two reasons. 1) You'll really find out what chipper best suits your needs (and which chippers you wouldn't take for free). 2) Your running new or like new equipment (for up to a week at a time) for free, which increases your profit margin.
Remember the number one job of any business manager is to maximize profits. If you don't examine all of your options, how can you be sure your maximizing your profit?


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## xander9727 (Apr 29, 2004)

BTW,
A 15X will chip 16" Ailanthus at a rather fast pace. 

A whole lot faster than it did the black locust.


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## kf_tree (May 1, 2004)

i had one of the origional 2018's witha 170 hp jd and disposable knives. within 6 hours the welds broke and the trap door blew out of the machine. welds were constantly breaking. i cracked the drum twice, ripped the pocket dividers out. the disposable knives just shattered constantly. cracked the fuel tank, i cracked the hyd tank, i cracked the frame under the engine, cracked the supports under the floor, i even bent the floor. when the guys swept up after chipping they were always handing me the bolts that fell out. 

i even ripped the towng tounge right off the machine dumping it in the street. so bob just shipped out another 1/4 in steel tounge, i had to scream and yell to get one made out of 3/8 steel. the origionl frames were made out of all 1/4 in , the floor was pretty wimpy to. 

there was also a host of feed problems. before yoy jump in and say i was chipping with dull knives almost all my problems have been addressed on the new machines but i was the one stuck with all the down time. 

within 10 months the machine was trashed. my dealer and i speced out a new beefed up machine 3/8 frame 1/2 in floor tandem axle, extra support under the engine, etc. i guess woodsman liked our ideas because it became a production model known as the 2019. (i even went to a lawyer to see if i could patent the machine out from under them) so i taded in my old machine plus 5600.00 they swaped my engine over onto the 2019. i got screwed out of the hyd discharge which was supposed to be on it. the dealer then tried to get me for a 900.00 delivery fee. 

what really twisted my nuts was they shipped the new machine with the same serial number and delivered it with one week left on my warrarty and told me they would do NO warranty work on the new machine. i had no leagal recouse sine it was the same seial number. i had to take the deal since my other machine was a hunk of junk. 

the new machine was better but i still cracked the drum a few times (the welds would open up) i had hyd feed issues, i still cracked welds here and there so i just bought a welder to chase the machine around with, i had to cut holes in the side panels to make some repairs since no acess was provided.

the original machine that woodsman copied was the blue ox there still some running around. when i fisrt called woodsman i spoke with a guy who left the company once he saw the crap they were putting out the door.

the story i was told was that bobs origional partener tom adle had a fabrication facility but i was really for light weight steel and since bob wanted to get machines out the first generation or 2 or 3 were way under speced as far as steel thickness.(how do you explain the tounge ripping off the machine?)

for every happy woodsman owner i'm sure there's a bitter person like me that got stuck helping them grow.

i was told from bob that an 18in machine is to make it easier to chip big brush, and the occasional piece of big wood, and if i wanted a machine that could chip a steady diet of wood i would need to spend at least 70,000. so i'm pretty surprised he said have at it with the 15in wood only time will tell.

it's been a few years since i've seen a woodsman but i'd rather hand load brush than give them one red cent of my money.

sincerly 

a bitter, former woodsman owner .


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## Koa Man (May 2, 2004)

kf_tree,
Believe me, I feel your pain, as my short story earlier about the Morbark 2036 I had. I also blew out the plate below the feed wheels on the Morbark and had to do some welding of my own. I did not have as many problems with the Morbark as you did with your 2018, but I fully understand where you are coming from. What I did learn is not to buy a new design chipper or from a new company until the chipper has been in production for at least 3 years. By then I would have some feedback on how it holds up or performs. Obviously Woodsman has learned from their past design flaws and as I had stated earlier, their present product is very very good.


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## Koa Man (May 2, 2004)

TreeCo,
When you say sales person, I hope you are not talking about me!  I am a dealer for Woodsman in Hawaii, but if it was a POS, I wouldn't sell or use them. You don't need to hesitate buying Woodsman's present product. The 18X I have is a 2002 model and it has run flawlessly, except for the autofeed controller which went bad, but the autofeed is not a Woodsman item. It was a LOR Electric and it was replaced by a new one next day air. But you are right, don't take a sales person's word, try out all the chippers you can in the size you intend to buy, then make a decision. Look at the construction, especially under the feedwheel and anvil, which will take a lot of pounding. Check out the size of the drum bearings and ease of maintenance. I think you will be pleasantly surprised if you take the time to look at and try out a Woodsman.


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## xander9727 (Aug 15, 2004)

Thought I'd post a couple of pictures of the beast.


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## xander9727 (Aug 15, 2004)

one more


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 15, 2004)

Dang bro, resize those phuggers.

Eh?


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## xander9727 (Aug 15, 2004)

I resized the pics.

All the dialer's can see now.


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## glens (Aug 16, 2004)

I'm not too interested in waiting for 280KB images...

You know, the thing of it is, it's not so much being nice to the dial-ups as being responsible with the storage and bandwidth costs for the site.


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## a_lopa (Aug 16, 2004)

woodsman are here in aus now i got sent a letter the other day about them they look ok,more the better bandit/vermeer had it all to themselves for a long time. still at 60k-110k i think ill stick with the altec


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## xander9727 (Aug 16, 2004)

Glens,
Rather than talk in circles just tell me if they need to be smaller.

This is a climbing thread, no Merlot allowed.


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## SilverBlue (Aug 16, 2004)

Here ya go Glens


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 16, 2004)

*Hahahaaa!!!*

That Glen's a card, eh?


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## glens (Aug 16, 2004)

Hey SB, I'd be willing to try that; where do you buy yours?

Xander, it's not so much the image dimensions alone which determine the file size.&nbsp; The compression level is almost a much larger factor.&nbsp; The last of your images above takes about a minute and a half to fetch.&nbsp; It's a nice image, but would you be willing to wait that long for it?&nbsp; By simply converting it to JPEG format (I know, it already is) using a simple program I have, it defaults to an image "quality" of 75.&nbsp; Passing it through that program drops it from 295173 bytes to 137218.&nbsp; Sure, when you compare them both side-by-side you can see some loss of fine detail.&nbsp; Is it objectionable?&nbsp; I don't think so; at least not for viewing an image in a web browser.&nbsp; If you were going to print them, you'd want the best quality, largest image possible, but that's a different ball game entirely.

To answer your question, is the image too large?&nbsp; Not by dimension, but yes, by file size.&nbsp; Bytes per second is the way we measure transfer times and the more bytes, the more seconds (and the more paid for serving costs over the month).

Glen


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## glens (Aug 16, 2004)

That was an inadvertent submission.&nbsp; Here's the image.

Glen


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## Barry (Feb 7, 2007)

*Drum vs. Disc Chippers*

I've been using a Vermeer 1250 chipper with the 80hp Perkins in my tree service business for several years now. We do mostly trimming and removal work, and 1-2 lot/land clearing jobs - time permitting, per year. The 1250 has been a workhorse for us overall, but it has some very definite limitations. 

My Three biggest concerns are:

1.) With the feed rollers mounted vertically and supported only on top by the hydraulic feed motor, material tends to get pulled in behind the sliding feed roller, which causes it to jam frequently. 

2.) Knife change out is about a 2 hr ordeal from start to finish and is a pain. The 2 outer knives on the 4 knife disc do most of the chipping, These however are also the smaller of the two. The larger inner radius knives are sometimes fairly sharp while the outers are very dull.

3.) The basic design of the disc chipper means that there is always about a 12" -16" piece of unchipped wood laying in the chamber between the end of the feed rollers and the disc. This occasionally causes the disc to jam during initial startup. This has to be cleared manually by opening the disc shroud and pushing the piece back with a stick or metal rod.

I am in the market for a newer, slightly larger chipper and I plan on starting by looking at drum chippers. Bandit 1290H, 1590H and the Woodsman line are at the top of my list.

I'm interested in any feedback and/or opinions other tree professionals may have regarding these models, as well as any personal experience you have had with these manufacturers.

R,
Barry
S&S Tree and Landscape, Inc.


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