# V-Groove Wheels



## radroy92 (Feb 15, 2012)

I'm collecting parts for a band saw build. The V-Groove wheels for the track are way expensive. Even surplus stuff on ebay has way stupid prices.

This place has good prices on iron-roller bearing V-groove wheels. Product Search 

They have a 20% off sale right now too.

Roy


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## radroy92 (Feb 15, 2012)

*Thier search engine is weird*

I just checked the link and it takes you to to the wrong place.

So from the search box on that page enter wheel and click on find. Go to the second page of the results and the V-groove wheels are half way down. 4" x 1-1/2" $7.99 6" x 2" $13.79

The searches that don't work are; wheels, v-groove, v-groove wheels

Roy


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## Ted J (Feb 18, 2012)

radroy92 said:


> I just checked the link and it takes you to to the wrong place.
> 
> So from the search box on that page enter wheel and click on find. Go to the second page of the results and the V-groove wheels are half way down. 4" x 1-1/2" $7.99 6" x 2" $13.79
> 
> ...



If you do a search for GROOVE then you can get other results, like these:

Item # 30-400-3 
CI V-Groove Wheel, 3" x 1-1/2" 
Cast Iron V-Groove Wheel. 3" x 1-1/2", 500 lbs Capacity. 
Price $8.19

Cast Iron V-Groove Wheel. 3" x 1-1/2", 500 lbs Capacity.

How much larger do you need?


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## chaikwa (Feb 18, 2012)

I see a lot of people that are building a mill opt to go with the 'V' of the angle pointing up for their track rails, and altho it seems to work and I know a lot of large manufacturers use this same method, I can't understand the reasoning for it. In contrast, I believe using the 'upright leg' method affords the advantage of a smaller area for sawdust to collect on the top of the track and get stuck to the wheel. It also provides a smaller surface area where a track wheel will ride, making for less friction & resistance, meaning it will be easier to push just by design. 

I designed a set of wheels for my own mill that are giving me a great deal of success. These wheels are like a railroad car wheel in that they only have one flange, but the portion of the wheel that actually rides on the track rail is wide enough, (1-1/2"), that if your track isn't consistent in width, or your carriage frame flexes slightly, it won't fall off because that single flange catches the track rail before the other wheels run off the 1-1/2" flat surface area. 

I reasoned that the problem with a 2 flange wheel is that a carriage is hardly ever pushed straight and square down the track. We are almost always pushing on one side of the carriage frame, which in effect, makes the carriage try and 'cock' on the track. Even when we push in the middle of the carriage, the pulling effect of the blade going thru the log is trying to pull the carriage off the track. When this happens, the same effect is happening to the track wheels, and both wheel flanges on each wheel are rubbing the sides of the track rail, one at the front of each wheel and one at the rear. This is what keeps the carriage from coming off the track, but it is also creating resistance, making the carriage harder to push. The same principle applies to the V-Groove wheels. I didn't realize just how much resistance was being created until my original track wheels self-destructed and I came up with this idea. With only one flange on each wheel, the resistance is literally cut in half. The mill rolls so much easier now I can move it with pressure from two fingers instead of having to 'lean into it'. And because there's only one flange, it doesn't matter what thickness the angle is either. 

Most of us use 2" X 2" or 2" X 3" tubing for the bottom horizontal rails of our carriages. Because the wheels are 1 1/2" in width, they'll fit nicely inside a 2" square tube without having to make another 'wall' or a spacer to retain the wheel so it doesn't float back and forth. If you're using 1/4" walled square tube, you may have to grind the weld seam that is inside the tube if you place the seam on a side wall. This depends on the manufacturer of the tubing, as some weld seams don't protrude as much as others.

Here's a pic if any of you with a lathe wanna copy them;


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## scor440 (Feb 25, 2012)

chaikwa said:


> I see a lot of people that are building a mill opt to go with the 'V' of the angle pointing up for their track rails, and altho it seems to work and I know a lot of large manufacturers use this same method, I can't understand the reasoning for it. In contrast, I believe using the 'upright leg' method affords the advantage of a smaller area for sawdust to collect on the top of the track and get stuck to the wheel. It also provides a smaller surface area where a track wheel will ride, making for less friction & resistance, meaning it will be easier to push just by design.
> 
> I designed a set of wheels for my own mill that are giving me a great deal of success. These wheels are like a railroad car wheel in that they only have one flange, but the portion of the wheel that actually rides on the track rail is wide enough, (1-1/2"), that if your track isn't consistent in width, or your carriage frame flexes slightly, it won't fall off because that single flange catches the track rail before the other wheels run off the 1-1/2" flat surface area.
> 
> ...


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## radroy92 (Feb 26, 2012)

chaikwa said:


> I see a lot of people that are building a mill opt to go with the 'V' of the angle pointing up for their track rails, and altho it seems to work and I know a lot of large manufacturers use this same method, I can't understand the reasoning for it. In contrast, I believe using the 'upright leg' method affords the advantage of a smaller area for sawdust to collect on the top of the track and get stuck to the wheel. It also provides a smaller surface area where a track wheel will ride, making for less friction & resistance, meaning it will be easier to push just by design.
> 
> I designed a set of wheels for my own mill that are giving me a great deal of success. These wheels are like a railroad car wheel in that they only have one flange, but the portion of the wheel that actually rides on the track rail is wide enough, (1-1/2"), that if your track isn't consistent in width, or your carriage frame flexes slightly, it won't fall off because that single flange catches the track rail before the other wheels run off the 1-1/2" flat surface area.
> 
> ...



From what I have seen those v-groove wheels are designed to carry a lot of weight by increasing the available surface area on the track. If you use them riding on the thin edge of a steel angle all the weight carrying ability is concentrated in the center and they are not designed for that. They will wear fast and possibly crack. For most of these smaller homebuilt mills they are over-kill. But they are available and work well. The sawdust collecting on the angle is a slight drawback. Your wheels are fine and will work just as well but I can see sawdust collecting on the flat tracks as well.

Roy


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## radroy92 (Feb 26, 2012)

Ted J said:


> If you do a search for GROOVE then you can get other results, like these:
> 
> Item # 30-400-3
> CI V-Groove Wheel, 3" x 1-1/2"
> ...



The larger ones were cheaper and bigger rolls easier.

Roy


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## chaikwa (Feb 26, 2012)

radroy92 said:


> From what I have seen those v-groove wheels are designed to carry a lot of weight by increasing the available surface area on the track.


Yes, that's what I keep getting told. But I worked in a large commercial mill that sawed around 100,000 bf a day. Their headrig weighed around 4 tons and used a double-sided 14" bandsaw blade, and their track was 5/8" thick angle with one leg in the vertical position. Their carriage wheels were just like mine... or maybe I should say mine are just like theirs because that's where I got the idea from!  My job was mill welding maintenance and for the 8 years I was there, the only thing I ever did in regards to that whole set-up was replace bearings in the wheels. I agree that more surface area the inverted angle affords will spread weight out, but I don't think it will make for less rolling resistance.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Feb 26, 2012)

chaikwa said:


> I see a lot of people that are building a mill opt to go with the 'V' of the angle pointing up for their track rails, and altho it seems to work and I know a lot of large manufacturers use this same method, I can't understand the reasoning for it. In contrast, I believe using the 'upright leg' method affords the advantage of a smaller area for sawdust to collect on the top of the track and get stuck to the wheel. It also provides a smaller surface area where a track wheel will ride, making for less friction & resistance, meaning it will be easier to push just by design.
> 
> I designed a set of wheels for my own mill that are giving me a great deal of success. These wheels are like a railroad car wheel in that they only have one flange, but the portion of the wheel that actually rides on the track rail is wide enough, (1-1/2"), that if your track isn't consistent in width, or your carriage frame flexes slightly, it won't fall off because that single flange catches the track rail before the other wheels run off the 1-1/2" flat surface area.
> 
> ...



Do you have a pic of your whole setup?

Thanks!


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## chaikwa (Feb 26, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Do you have a pic of your whole setup?
> 
> Thanks!



Here are a few; 



















Anything in particular you're looking for?


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## radroy92 (Feb 27, 2012)

*Very nice band mill build*



chaikwa said:


> Here are a few;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow that is some mill! Juuuuust a little larger than most hobby mills. ;-) Nice work! How about some close-ups of the way you made the tension adjuster and the toe adjustment, drive setup and cut height adjustment, log dogs etc.? I'm in the process of collecting parts for my much smaller band mill project and I'm looking for ideas.

Thanks!

Roy


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## Jack0999 (Feb 27, 2012)

I went by a scale on the way home so I stopped and the trailer weighed 10,200 lbs. The pile behind the trailer is a bur oak that I got just before I got hurt.

I went by a scale on the way home so I stopped and the trailer weighed 10,200 lbs. The pile behind the trailer is a bur oak that I got just before I got hurt.


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## Mahindra123 (Feb 28, 2012)

*Very Nice*

Not only a darn nice looking mill but also the satisfaction that you built it! Every think of quitting your "day job" and start your own bandsaw factory? Once again - BEAUTIFUL!!!


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## chaikwa (Feb 28, 2012)

Mahindra123 said:


> Not only a darn nice looking mill but also the satisfaction that you built it! Every think of quitting your "day job" and start your own bandsaw factory? Once again - BEAUTIFUL!!!



I considered it once, but then I looked at all the mill manufacturers already competing for customers and thought better of the idea! It's actually something that anyone can build from the plans at Linn. The track is my own, but 99% of the headrig is Linn. 

Thanks for the compliments!


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## bigjohn1895 (Mar 8, 2012)

i know this may sound funny but why not use the v pullys off a riding lawnmower deck i stoped into a repair shop and asked about some and after i told him that i wanted them for a project and he handed me a coffee can full of 2 and 3 inch pullys saying take them i dont know if they will work for ya but i dont need them


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## radroy92 (Mar 9, 2012)

*Pulleys for wheels*



bigjohn1895 said:


> i know this may sound funny but why not use the v pullys off a riding lawnmower deck i stoped into a repair shop and asked about some and after i told him that i wanted them for a project and he handed me a coffee can full of 2 and 3 inch pullys saying take them i dont know if they will work for ya but i dont need them



I've been searching all over the Web for pictures of different homebuilt bandmills and I seen a few using small pulleys for the wheels. They ride on the edge of one leg of a length of angle. I see no reason why they wouldn't work as long as they will carry the weight.

Roy


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## chaikwa (Mar 9, 2012)

I used pulleys on my first 2 mills. They work and DON'T work for a couple of reasons. The sides of them are not real thick, and the castings tend to be a bit brittle, so they MAY break. The centers where the rail will ride are not always perfectly round and may have to be turned on a lathe if you find they're egg shaped. Some pulleys will also have holes drilled in the center section where the rail rides. These hole don't go anywhere, they're there to balance the wheel and the manufacturer has drilled a hole(s) to remove excess material, but they'll have to be removed or you'll feel them when you push the mill down the track. If they're in the 'right' spot, they may actually stop the mill from rolling. The other thing you will probably want to do is turn out the center where the shaft goes thru it to accept a sealed ball bearing as the weight of the mill doesn't really roll all that easily on just a shaft alone. I've had both good luck and bad turning pulleys on my lathe. Some are just fine and others shatter while they're being turned. Wear safety glasses! When they shatter, itty bitty pieces of shrapnel go everywhere!


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## radroy92 (Mar 9, 2012)

*pulley wheels*



chaikwa said:


> I used pulleys on my first 2 mills. They work and DON'T work for a couple of reasons. The sides of them are not real thick, and the castings tend to be a bit brittle, so they MAY break. The centers where the rail will ride are not always perfectly round and may have to be turned on a lathe if you find they're egg shaped. Some pulleys will also have holes drilled in the center section where the rail rides. These hole don't go anywhere, they're there to balance the wheel and the manufacturer has drilled a hole(s) to remove excess material, but they'll have to be removed or you'll feel them when you push the mill down the track. If they're in the 'right' spot, they may actually stop the mill from rolling. The other thing you will probably want to do is turn out the center where the shaft goes thru it to accept a sealed ball bearing as the weight of the mill doesn't really roll all that easily on just a shaft alone. I've had both good luck and bad turning pulleys on my lathe. Some are just fine and others shatter while they're being turned. Wear safety glasses! When they shatter, itty bitty pieces of shrapnel go everywhere!



The type of pulley to use is either machined steel or cast iron. The die cast white metal pulleys are not as strong and as you mentioned they have other problems as well. Here are two reasonably priced pulleys I found at Surplus Center that would make fine wheels: https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-BKH30&catname= and https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-BK30-B&catname= The first one has a big bore designed for and H bushing but would be easily adaptable for sealed ball bearings bearings. The second one has a 5/8 bore and could roll on a bolt as an axle. The larger bore and axle size will help the pulleys roll more easily. Here's one with a 1-1/8 bore https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-BK30-F&catname= You can get bronze bushings to fit these bores too. All of these pulleys are machined cast iron and will support a lot of weight. Remember to grease the axles and bores. Of course you can go back to my to the beginning of this thread and get the cast iron V-groove wheels I mentioned for the same price as the pulleys. They need no modification, have sturdy roller bearings and bolt axles with grease fittings. Use them with inverted angle or on a flat track or on the edge of one leg of angle. Easy peasy.

Roy


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## chaikwa (Mar 9, 2012)

I've done a lot of experimenting with different wheels and pulleys and I found that using just the bore with a bolt and/or grease didn't work real well for me. The bolt in the hole just never rolled all that easily and the grease was a sawdust magnet. Took me a few tries before I discovered the joys of sealed bearings!  

Now, this isn't to say the bolts won't work for someone else tho. I know a few guys that swear by that method. I just attract bad results!


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## coyotebait (May 11, 2013)

*check these out*

Flanged Wheels & Double Flanged Track Wheel - Crane Wheels


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## radroy92 (May 12, 2013)

chaikwa said:


> I've done a lot of experimenting with different wheels and pulleys and I found that using just the bore with a bolt and/or grease didn't work real well for me. The bolt in the hole just never rolled all that easily and the grease was a sawdust magnet. Took me a few tries before I discovered the joys of sealed bearings!
> 
> Now, this isn't to say the bolts won't work for someone else tho. I know a few guys that swear by that method. I just attract bad results!



I agree I wouldn't do that either. These are the just the ticket and they are a very low price. Cast Iron V-Groove Wheel. 4" x 1-1/2", 800 lbs Capacity. There is a sturdy roller bearing inside and the axel bolt is drilled through the center for greasing.

Roy


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## radroy92 (May 12, 2013)

coyotebait said:


> Flanged Wheels & Double Flanged Track Wheel - Crane Wheels



Good source! Prices? I get the idea that if you have to ask you can't afford it. I found V-groove wheels at a lot of places for a lot of money but non this cheap Cast Iron V-Groove Wheel. 4" x 1-1/2", 800 lbs Capacity. $7.99 plus shipping.

Roy


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