# Dump angles



## Blakesmaster (Nov 19, 2009)

What is the minimum dump angle to effectively be used on a chip truck. 40, 45, 50?


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## 371groundie (Nov 19, 2009)

that depends on how fast you back up, and how hard you stand on the brakes. :-b


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 19, 2009)

*lol*

As a fellow wise ass, I usually really appreciate comments like that but in this case I'd rather some hard numbers.


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 19, 2009)

Our current ez dumper is at 37.8 degrees and seems to work ok. Will I need the degree to be greater with a longer box or should that have little or no impact on it?


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## jhays (Nov 19, 2009)

The longer you go the higher it will need to be, but from experience, 50 is enough for anything.


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## RVALUE (Nov 19, 2009)

jhays said:


> The longer you go the higher it will need to be, but from experience, 50 is enough for anything.



What?


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 19, 2009)

jhays said:


> The longer you go the higher it will need to be,



Would you mind explaining that? Friction of the load when the bed is a greater length perhaps? What if you go wider, should your dump angle be higher then as well in order to compensate for friction?



jhays said:


> but from experience, 50 is enough for anything.



I figured that but the closer I can get this to 39-40 degrees the less money I'll be spending...long story...which is why I was asking for the minimum.


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 19, 2009)

RVALUE said:


> What?



You have the floor, sir. I'm all ears.


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## CUCV (Nov 19, 2009)

40 deg works but I prefer more.


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## RVALUE (Nov 19, 2009)

I am curious about the logic in greater length mandates greater angle.


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 19, 2009)

RVALUE said:


> I am curious about the logic in greater length mandates greater angle.



I was too, I can assume greater length = greater surface area which = more friction of the load on the bed but it also = more load weight at the top which would = more force to push out the stuff beneath it. Can anyone else comment on this?


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 20, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I was too, I can assume greater length = greater surface area which = more friction of the load on the bed but it also = more load weight at the top which would = more force to push out the stuff beneath it. Can anyone else comment on this?



Anyone?


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## RVALUE (Nov 20, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I was too, I can assume greater length = greater surface area which = more friction of the load on the bed but it also = more load weight at the top which would = more force to push out the stuff beneath it. Can anyone else comment on this?



Of course the whole load starts at the same time. And it is ususally at a steeper angle than one without experience would expect. We base our initial experience on trying to keep things on the roof, etc. (hammer,etc) but the load of debris in the dump has been stationary abit, and does resist motion.

But longer = higher ?????


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 20, 2009)

RVALUE said:


> Of course the whole load starts at the same time. And it is ususally at a steeper angle than one without experience would expect. We base our initial experience on trying to keep things on the roof, etc. (hammer,etc) but the load of debris in the dump has been stationary abit, and does resist motion.
> 
> But longer = higher ?????



If you are correct ( and your logic matches mine by the way ) the 37.8 degree angle we have on our 8 foot long ez dumper should be enough on our 12.5 foot long chip box. I guess my question at this point would be why do the majority of larger dumps I find have a 45 - 50 degree angle? Should I tell our fab guy to shoot for 45 degrees and take one to the wallet or stick to my guns that achieving 39 degrees will be sufficient?


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## tree MDS (Nov 20, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> If you are correct ( and your logic matches mine by the way ) the 37.8 degree angle we have on our 8 foot long ez dumper should be enough on our 12.5 foot long chip box. I guess my question at this point would be why do the majority of larger dumps I find have a 45 - 50 degree angle? Should I tell our fab guy to shoot for 45 degrees and take one to the wallet or stick to my guns that achieving 39 degrees will be sufficient?



Take out the wallet. Do it right the first time. A 12.5' long chip box is alot of chips and you dont want to be leaving a 30' swath of chips everytime you dump. At least thats what I would do. What are you running a scissors type piston setup or ram style? Scissor style is best, they require a much smaller piston to do the same, or more work. Of course i'm no pro at this stuff so...


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 20, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Take out the wallet. Do it right the first time. A 12.5' long chip box is alot of chips and you dont want to be leaving a 30' swath of chips everytime you dump. At least thats what I would do. What are you running a scissors type piston setup or ram style? Scissor style is best, they require a much smaller piston to do the same, or more work. Of course i'm no pro at this stuff so...



It's a scissor lift and it looks like I need to break out the wallet and have either the piston or the pump rebuilt. I don't know squat when it comes to hydraulics but it seems that we're missing about 6 inches of piston when fully extended and I don't think your supposed to leave a puddle of fluid on the ground every time you lift. So I gotta get that sorted out first and then we'll be able to figure out exactly where it needs to be mounted in order to achieve the right angle. At least 45 degrees seems to be the general consensus?


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## tree MDS (Nov 20, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> It's a scissor lift and it looks like I need to break out the wallet and have either the piston or the pump rebuilt. I don't know squat when it comes to hydraulics but it seems that we're missing about 6 inches of piston when fully extended and I don't think your supposed to leave a puddle of fluid on the ground every time you lift. So I gotta get that sorted out first and then we'll be able to figure out exactly where it needs to be mounted in order to achieve the right angle. At least 45 degrees seems to be the general consensus?



I know with mine if you add fluid with the piston out and then try to put it in it'll puke out the breather ontop of the resevoir -must fill when piston is in then lower slowly till it purges the air! You cant tell where its leaking?? how is this??

I'm not sure what angle is good...45 sounds about right just as a guess. I would imagine you aint gonna be able to get too high due to the long body - you would have to move the scissor back to the rear, which would make it even harder for the piston to dump that long body...if this makes any sense.

You should ask nails, he's into welding/fab work. Every time I try to mess with this type of thing I end up hating on the project. lol


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 20, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I know with mine if you add fluid with the piston out and then try to put it in it'll puke out the breather ontop of the resevoir -must fill when piston is in then lower slowly till it purges the air! You cant tell where its leaking?? how is this??
> 
> I'm not sure what angle is good...45 sounds about right just as a guess. I would imagine you aint gonna be able to get too high due to the long body - you would have to move the scissor back to the rear, which would make it even harder for the piston to dump that long body...if this makes any sense.
> 
> You should ask nails, he's into welding/fab work. Every time I try to mess with this type of thing I end up hating on the project. lol



Yeah, I'm hating on the project and I ain't even doing it. The reason I don't know where it is leaking is because I was too fed up trying to figure out where to mount the lift in order to achieve the angle we wanted that when we realized we had a hydraulic issue I didn't even want to deal with the situation anymore. Our cylinder is about 20 inches long but we're only getting about 14 inches of piston out the top plus it doesn't want to stay up once dumped, like I said there's some work to be done there. As far as moving the scissor, we've slid it about 20 inches so far and looks like we'll need another 25 or so if our ram is actually fully extended. That will leave 60 inches between where the ram connects to the box and our pivot point at the rear. Wow, typing that out I think I need a bigger ram if I can't get a few more inches of push out of this one.


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## 48"BAR PINCHER (Nov 20, 2009)

RVALUE said:


> Of course the whole load starts at the same time. And it is ususally at a steeper angle than one without experience would expect. We base our initial experience on trying to keep things on the roof, etc. (hammer,etc) but the load of debris in the dump has been stationary abit, and does resist motion.
> 
> But longer = higher ?????



I gotta argue this one. I driven lots of dumps from 1 ton chevys to tri-axles and 45' dump trailers. The load does not all move at once. Stuff at the back has to move first to make room for the rest. I'm also a veteran of cleaning out my shorts from the load sticking to the inside of the dump body. My F550 had a 45deg dump and it was o.k.. More would have been better. My 8 ton dump truck has a 55 deg angle and that is sweet. The tris and dump trailers I've ran are around 70deg I believe. Another thing to consider tho is the steeper the dump angle the lighter it makes the front of the truck when dumping if the load sticks. Yes....Dump trucks will do wheelies if they don't fall over first.


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## RVALUE (Nov 20, 2009)

48"BAR PINCHER said:


> I gotta argue this one. I driven lots of dumps from 1 ton chevys to tri-axles and 45' dump trailers. The load does not all move at once. Stuff at the back has to move first to make room for the rest. I'm also a veteran of cleaning out my shorts from the load sticking to the inside of the dump body. My F550 had a 45deg dump and it was o.k.. More would have been better. My 8 ton dump truck has a 55 deg angle and that is sweet. The tris and dump trailers I've ran are around 70deg I believe. Another thing to consider tho is the steeper the dump angle the lighter it makes the front of the truck when dumping if the load sticks. Yes....Dump trucks will do wheelies if they don't fall over first.



I should have said "brush". Chips, sand, and gravel types are different.


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## RVALUE (Nov 20, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> If you are correct ( and your logic matches mine by the way ) the 37.8 degree angle we have on our 8 foot long ez dumper should be enough on our 12.5 foot long chip box. I guess my question at this point would be why do the majority of larger dumps I find have a 45 - 50 degree angle? Should I tell our fab guy to shoot for 45 degrees and take one to the wallet or stick to my guns that achieving 39 degrees will be sufficient?



Why does a steeper angle cost more?

Be very careful buying into the notion that a scissor takes a smaller cyclinder. Shorter, yes. Smaller, maybe not. There is quite a bit of geometry involved. And hydraulics. and mechanical. and luck, and application, and, and, and.....


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 20, 2009)

RVALUE said:


> Why does a steeper angle cost more?
> 
> Be very careful buying into the notion that a scissor takes a smaller cyclinder. Shorter, yes. Smaller, maybe not. There is quite a bit of geometry involved. And hydraulics. and mechanical. and luck, and application, and, and, and.....



In short it will involve moving a cross member between frame rails. Trust me, you don't want the long version. 

Our next step is to make sure that our hydraulics are working perfectly so we know the height the ram will push to and then do the math on if the ram will push a full load. Apparently the math will involve measuring the fluid pressure, the piston size, both ends of the scissor lift as well as the distances from our final pivot point at the rear. I don't know, my old man's the engineer. If I can't fix it with a chainsaw, it most likely doesn't get done.


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