# Letter to the president from Jay Browning



## jeremym (Apr 28, 2009)

An interesting letter from Jay Browning to President Obama on the JM Browning website.
http://www.jmbrowningloggingandtrucking.com/images/Letter-to-Pres-Obama.pdf


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## spencerhenry (Apr 28, 2009)

not what i expected from jay browning


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## redprospector (Apr 28, 2009)

Won't take long for that one to hit the trash can, if it get's read at all.

Andy


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## Junior (Apr 28, 2009)

I wonder how serious washington will take these issues if they've seen the shows on TV?


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## dingeryote (Apr 28, 2009)

Screened as non-threatening. Name added to the "Kook's List", for further SS attention if warranted. Bag,Tag, file. Coloring books screened for Anthrax, and then thrown on the heap of other junk that once screened will be donated to charity.

Joe the Plumber darn near torpedoed Osama, Ain't no way in hell his handlers are gonna let him get near a normal working slob, let alone talk to one again!
Thier Robot wasn't programmed for that.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Kunes (Apr 29, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> Screened as non-threatening. Name added to the "Kook's List", for further SS attention if warranted. Bag,Tag, file. Coloring books screened for Anthrax, and then thrown on the heap of other junk that once screened will be donated to charity.
> 
> Joe the Plumber darn near torpedoed Osama, Ain't no way in hell his handlers are gonna let him get near a normal working slob, let alone talk to one again!
> Thier Robot wasn't programmed for that.
> ...



Very true Dingeryote


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## bigskyguy5 (Apr 29, 2009)

*Thoughts on Jays Letter and of life, family, and employees*




well I can not speak for anyone but myself and my wife. We both read Jays letter to the President and we feel and know in our hearts that it came from Jays heart. I happen to agree with the other gentleman. Chances are, in all likelyhood he will not even see the letter or anything Jay sent him. This nation has drifted so far from the world that I knew of honesty, Intergity, humbleness, hard work old fashion ethics. Go through [any] neighborhood today, east to west coast, north and south, and see if you can count the kids, teenagers out knocking on doors asking to cut your grass to make some money. Just ride around in your own town. Try it.

Look at the kids today how they are being raised with O accountability. Look at the O accountability in compaines today. Look how GREED! has ate its way in too all most every fiber of the work force in this Nation. Look how these words have come forth that I type next. ITS NOT MY PROBLEM. Look how trying to make a quick buck, without any, hard honest work invloved has over taken this nation. My wife and I and out company do not, believe in any, bailouts what so ever. If people will get back to the basics of working hard, being of service to their family, and their employees, and their community, and investing themselves in too their families and their employees and their community, you will see far more happy children, happier employees.


We do this. Casue we were [raised] by these principles, and many more. Ive worked countless young people and they all had one thing in common, besides other things. They were all, starved for true heart felt attention cause they do not get it at home. Mom and Dad are to busy hold up in their den or bedrooms watching TV, looking for a way to make a quick buck to keep up with the neoghbors who just bought a Escalade. I got news for everyone. We do not live off credit, and do not carry debt. We owe no one a dime, and we own a 7 million dollar operation. We run our life, and our business on sound, spiritual Christian principles. We do not even live close to the level we know we could. We give back to the men and their families who stand with us, and by us and who work with us, and not simply work for us.

All of you on here are in our prayers, and we pray that everything you do, you will do for the betterment of your families, and your employees and your community and for and to yourselves.

God bless you all.:angel:


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## TimberFaller660 (Apr 29, 2009)

bigskyguy5 said:


> well I can not speak for anyone but myself and my wife. We both read Jays letter to the President and we feel and know in our hearts that it came from Jays heart. I happen to agree with the other gentleman. Chances are, in all likelyhood he will not even see the letter or anything Jay sent him. This nation has drifted so far from the world that I knew of honesty, Intergity, humbleness, hard work old fashion ethics. Go through [any] neighborhood today, east to west coast, north and south, and see if you can count the kids, teenagers out knocking on doors asking to cut your grass to make some money. Just ride around in your own town. Try it.
> 
> Look at the kids today how they are being raised with O accountability. Look at the O accountability in compaines today. Look how GREED! has ate its way in too all most every fiber of the work force in this Nation. Look how these words have come forth that I type next. ITS NOT MY PROBLEM. Look how trying to make a quick buck, without any, hard honest work invloved has over taken this nation. My wife and I and out company do not, believe in any, bailouts what so ever. If people will get back to the basics of working hard, being of service to their family, and their employees, and their community, and investing themselves in too their families and their employees and their community, you will see far more happy children, happier employees.
> 
> ...




:agree2:


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## wood4heat (Apr 29, 2009)

Sorry I like Jay but I don't get his plan. At the core of our economic problems is the falling value of home prices. The market is saturated with homes for sale driving prices even lower and his suggestion is to build more?


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## tomtrees58 (Apr 29, 2009)

man hes sunk wen the sees s&s tom trees:jawdrop:


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## JCBearss (Apr 29, 2009)

It is a positive thing from an eloquent level headed man take for what it is MAYBE old boy will see it


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## Taxmantoo (Apr 29, 2009)

wood4heat said:


> At the core of our economic problems is the falling value of home prices.



Huh?

As for the rest of your post, I agree, the solution to overcapacity is not building more.


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## Burvol (Apr 29, 2009)

I think that he was hoping to elevate those who made too little money for a 200,000 range home. That's pretty standard if not pretty cheap on the West Coast anymore.


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## biggenius29 (Apr 30, 2009)

B Hussien Obama would love for the timber industry to go bankrupt. He probably crys everytime he hears of a tree falling. Him and all his tree hugging hippie friends.


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## yellojeeper (Apr 30, 2009)

Jay sounds like just another leech ready and willing to suck off the gubmnt teet. Programs like he's suggesting are what got us in this mess, (freddie and fannie, the community reinvestment act, etc).

Wait until we get hit from the inflation of injecting TRILLIONS of dollars into the economy. 

I feel for Jay and everyone else out there that's been devestated from the economy, gubment intervention is not the answer.


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## KD57 (Apr 30, 2009)

I might be wrong, but my thoughts are high gasoline prices was the match that lit the fuse on our economy, yet I seldom here mention of it. Those folks that did manage to pay their mortgage, barely maybe, went down as income drifted over to buy fuel to get to work. When gas goes up, everything goes up. It doesn't take much to drive them over the edge when they are on the line to begin with.


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## slowp (Apr 30, 2009)

Burvol said:


> I think that he was hoping to elevate those who made too little money for a 200,000 range home. That's pretty standard if not pretty cheap on the West Coast anymore.



That's it. I cruised through the real estate listings here, and anything that looks a little bit decent--fixer uppers start at 150,000. Manufactured housing starts at 129,000. That's in It Might Flood Someday areas too. The main employers here are the school, the mill and the forest service. Not exactly high income jobs. Yet, I've had people tell me how much cheaper housing prices are here than most of the other places in the state. 

I'm predicting prices to go higher here. The ski area is expanding, and we'll have second home buying people. 

Young people have to take out big loans or get help from the family to buy a place here. 

My Money Pit will be much more than I originally planned to spend. It is a simple, basic house. It is costing less to build because there isn't much else being built to the West--Chehalis/Centralia, and lumber prices are down. Ironically, it is a good time to build a house.


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## sawyerloggingon (Apr 30, 2009)

Remember when clinton was running for pres, all you heard was logging,logging, logging. We were about to cut the last tree down in the west and kill the last spotted owl. This election logging wasn't mentioned once, it's not the current scare tactic by dems, now we hear global warming, global warming, global warming and the last polar bears about to die.


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## wood4heat (Apr 30, 2009)

wood4heat said:


> At the core of our economic problems is the falling value of home prices.





taxmantoo said:


> Huh?
> 
> As for the rest of your post, I agree, the solution to overcapacity is not building more.



It was not worded well, should have said "a big part of out economic problems". Peoples evaporating equity causing them to tighten the purse strings. Those who are finding themselves upside down and walking away from their mortgages adding to the burden on the banks. Then there is the impact it's had on real estate, construction, building materials, etc. Jay's plan could help with construction but if values keep falling who's going to buy. 

Prices of existing homes will continue to fall until they become affordable again, there is no need to go on another building spree. It sounded like he was just trying to reinvent Habitat for Humanity anyway. At any rate you got what I was getting at.


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## Brmorgan (Apr 30, 2009)

biggenius29 said:


> B Hussien Obama would love for the timber industry to go bankrupt. He probably crys everytime he hears of a tree falling. Him and all his tree hugging hippie friends.



That was deep...


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## tomtrees58 (May 1, 2009)

Prices of existing homes will continue to fall until they become affordable again, there is no need to go on another building spree. It sounded like he was just trying to reinvent Habitat for Humanity anyway. :agree2:tom trees


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## slinger (May 1, 2009)

tomtrees58 said:


> prices of existing homes will continue to fall until they become affordable again, there is no need to go on another building spree. It sounded like he was just trying to reinvent habitat for humanity anyway. :agree2:tom trees



+1


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## RMK (May 5, 2009)

Poor Jay over expanded his business,because of the false home building market and 40 year mortgages being given to people who didn't qualify.

The bottom line is Jay got greedy. He knew full well after 31 years of logging that this market was artificial,yet continued to buy more equipment irresponsibly.So now he wants to write a tear filled letter,in hopes of getting his arse bailed out rather then pay for his mistake..


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## slowp (May 5, 2009)

RMK said:


> Poor Jay over expanded his business,because of the false home building market and 40 year mortgages being given to people who didn't qualify.
> 
> The bottom line is Jay got greedy. He knew full well after 31 years of logging that this market was artificial,yet continued to buy more equipment irresponsibly.So now he wants to write a tear filled letter,in hopes of getting his arse bailed out rather then pay for his mistake..



I am glad you are able to get into people's heads and tell us exactly what they think. 

Jay Browning, and others, employ a heck of a lot of people in otherwise, minimum wage communities. They provide a solid product. Something you can make things out of, not just imaginary dollars to trade. Nobody was expecting the lumber market to tank as bad as it has. Nobody. 

More power to him for writing the letter.


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## Gologit (May 5, 2009)

slowp said:


> I am glad you are able to get into people's heads and tell us exactly what they think.
> 
> Jay Browning, and others, employ a heck of a lot of people in otherwise, minimum wage communities. They provide a solid product. Something you can make things out of, not just imaginary dollars to trade. Nobody was expecting the lumber market to tank as bad as it has. Nobody.
> 
> More power to him for writing the letter.



Well said.


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## Gologit (May 5, 2009)

RMK said:


> Poor Jay over expanded his business,because of the false home building market and 40 year mortgages being given to people who didn't qualify.
> 
> The bottom line is Jay got greedy. He knew full well after 31 years of logging that this market was artificial,yet continued to buy more equipment irresponsibly.So now he wants to write a tear filled letter,in hopes of getting his arse bailed out rather then pay for his mistake..



Jay Browning, and almost everybody else in our industry right now, is just trying to survive. Browning increased his business to meet a growing demand for timber. That demand is over now but that doesn't make Browning a bad businessman...just human. He ran his business the best he could and he put a lot of food on the table for a lot of people. I hope he makes it. I'd work for him.
Unless you've run a logging company or even just worked as a logger, and experienced the ups and downs that go along with it, I don't think you're qualified to judge someone who's spent his whole life in the woods.
Did Browning make mistakes? Sure. But he got out there and _tried_. He put it on the line and if things don't work out he'll just pick up the pieces and try again. That's what we do out here.
Don't bayonet the wounded, RMK. I neg-repped your post...you deserved it.


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## RMK (May 5, 2009)

slowp said:


> I am glad you are able to get into people's heads and tell us exactly what they think.
> 
> Nobody was expecting the lumber market to tank as bad as it has. Nobody.
> 
> More power to him for writing the letter.



Jays mind isn't that complex.Fairly easy to see what he was thinking or lack there of.

I don't know why you wouldn't expect the market to tank like it has.There was absolutely nothing supporting it,other then the Bush administration allowing you to finance your dog for a home loan.Then printing more money against no Gold Standard.Now black jesus is going to print more so we can bail out everyone and further degrade the american dollar.When you have homeless people carrying cell phones and fast food clerks getting into mortgages that any responsible person with a $100k a year salary wouldn't touch.It becomes crystal clear where things are headed.

Jay reminds me of a local contractor who does(did)dirt work. We get the housing boom.He goes from one backhoe and used dumptruck.To 15 trackhoes and various other high end equipment.Figures he has to work this equipment between 32 and 35 days a month with any hope of paying it off and paying the operator.Never mind the fact that there's only 31 days at most in a month.He's bankrupt right now.


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## 68 Automag (May 5, 2009)

RMK said:


> When you have homeless people carrying cell phones and fast food clerks getting into mortgages that any responsible person with a $100k a year salary wouldn't touch.It becomes crystal clear where things are headed.




Are you serious? You don't think those "Responsible" people making $100K are the problem? They're the ones that were living the champagne lifestyle and spending more than they had.


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## BC_Logger (May 5, 2009)

what about a program which would re build the homes in the lower 9 ward of New Orleans ?

heres an area which use to house 15 000 people


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## CJ-7 (May 5, 2009)

> I don't know why you wouldn't expect the market to tank like it has.



So how many of you got out of the market before it tanked or sold your house before the housing market tanked knowing it was going to happen? I look back and say, how did I not see it coming? Human nature is to hold status quo as long as you are busy today. Had the lenders not gotten greedy and done those sub-prime mortgages, we wouldn't be today where we are and Browning would have been praised for expanding his business and being successful instead of being slammed by some for overextending himself.


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## wood4heat (May 5, 2009)

The only time I questioned it was after reading an article that said housing had come to the point that if a working class person didn't already own a home they would never be able to afford one. I looked at that and wondered how those prices would ever be sustainable but didn't expect the construction industry to fall nearly as hard as it has.


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## dean06919 (May 27, 2009)

RMK said:


> Jay reminds me of a local contractor who does(did)dirt work. We get the housing boom.He goes from one backhoe and used dumptruck.To 15 trackhoes and various other high end equipment.Figures he has to work this equipment between 32 and 35 days a month with any hope of paying it off and paying the operator.Never mind the fact that there's only 31 days at most in a month.He's bankrupt right now.



RMK:

Your example closely resembles the bricklayer analogy used in the Mises-Hayek model that I studied briefly last semester. 

If I remember correctly, this model posits savings is a function of future consumption. A high savings rate sends the signal to producers that an increase in consumption will follow in the near future. As a result, producers will invest in more capital goods to meet the anticipated demand. However, when a central bank influences interest rates to fall below its natural rate, consumers will be able to borrow, consume and save at the same time. This causes mixed signals to producers and impedes the market clearing process. The result is malinvestment of precious materials and the inevitable bust of the business cycle.

If this model holds true, I would hesitate to lay blame upon Jay and his "greed". He interpreted the mixed market signals incorrectly, and took advantage of low interest loans to heavily invest in capital goods, to fulfill the anticipated future consumption. Staying true to this model, one has to hold the main culprit responsible, the one that distorts market signals and impedes the market clearing process, the central bank.

I hope I did this model justice. I've learned many different models over the course of the last two years and sometimes blend them together. Anyway, if you enjoy economic theory, you might want to google the Mises-Hayek model and read through it. It's very interesting and far different from more traditional Keynesian models studied in academia.


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## bigskyguy5 (May 27, 2009)

*Housing boom and bust*

Hello to everyone! I thought that I would let everyone know that my wife and i just finixhed reading Thomas sowells latest book titled HOUSING BOOM AND BUST, and this is one of the best books that we have read on all the housing situation, and all the ends and outs of it. We recommend everyone read it.

It confirms all, that we already knew. The Greed, from the buyers who could not afford to buy to start off with, to the so called investors who got in and flipped real estate like pancakes on a hot skillet, to the mortage brokers, bankers, Wash Politicans, Fanny and Freedy, etc is 100 pct astounding! GREED! ARROGANCE! EGOS Running rampant! We thank the Lord we were raised different and never, ever allow ourselves to ever, get involved in get rich quick schemes, and we dont owe even a dime, to a credit card.

God bless everyone

Ed & Rhonda
Angel fire Timber & Firewood LLC:jawdrop::greenchainsaw::greenchainsaw:


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## dean06919 (May 28, 2009)

bigskyguy5 said:


> Hello to everyone! I thought that I would let everyone know that my wife and i just finixhed reading Thomas sowells latest book titled HOUSING BOOM AND BUST, and this is one of the best books that we have read on all the housing situation, and all the ends and outs of it. We recommend everyone read it.
> 
> It confirms all, that we already knew. The Greed, from the buyers who could not afford to buy to start off with, to the so called investors who got in and flipped real estate like pancakes on a hot skillet, to the mortage brokers, bankers, Wash Politicans, Fanny and Freedy, etc is 100 pct astounding! GREED! ARROGANCE! EGOS Running rampant! We thank the Lord we were raised different and never, ever allow ourselves to ever, get involved in get rich quick schemes, and we dont owe even a dime, to a credit card.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip Ed, I'm always interested in a good read.


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## bigskyguy5 (May 30, 2009)

tomtrees58 said:


> man hes sunk wen the sees s&s tom trees:jawdrop:



Hey Tom! We will be coming up through Long Island real soon and stopping to see a friend of ours down on Long Island, on our way to Maine, cause we are moving our operation from here to their.

God bless everyone
Ed & Rhonda
Angelfire Farm & Firewood LLC:greenchainsaw::greenchainsaw:


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