# Better To Work By The Job Or By The Hour?



## CLEARVIEW TREE (Jul 19, 2008)

Guys, i run into a problem every now and then on bigger hard to price jobs. Do i charge by the hour or by the job? Hard to price by the job, when you don't know how long, for example it will take to clear like acres and acres! Once priced several trees, and come time to pay up there like "no, you're not done yet!" I'm like yes i am, i can't help that you marked 14 trees after we had in writing that we'd take only 6 trees!" Moral to the story is that had i not priced that one by the hour, they may not have tried to slide more sausage in on me! Oh, well, learned from that one. Give me your thoughts guys.Thanks


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## toddstreeservic (Jul 19, 2008)

CLEARVIEW TREE said:


> Guys, i run into a problem every now and then on bigger hard to price jobs. Do i charge by the hour or by the job? Hard to price by the job, when you don't know how long, for example it will take to clear like acres and acres! Once priced several trees, and come time to pay up there like "no, you're not done yet!" I'm like yes i am, i can't help that you marked 14 trees after we had in writing that we'd take only 6 trees!" Moral to the story is that had i not priced that one by the hour, they may not have tried to slide more sausage in on me! Oh, well, learned from that one. Give me your thoughts guys.Thanks



If you had a written contract I would quote them a new price for the additional trees.


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## ATH (Jul 19, 2008)

The only time I price by the hour is when I am working for a friend (usually at a reduced rate). I tell them I can give them a price that will probably be a little high, but if it is OK with them, I'll just charge by the hour. "Regular" clients want a final price.

Or more importance though, I think charging by the hour is asking for sticker shock. When you tell them your per hour rate is $65, $75, $85 or whatever, the will think "gosh...I only make $20 per hour". Many people don't associate the other direct per hour costs to an employer (workers comp, social security), let alone the other fixed costs to employ somebody (for example, maybe, health insurance and vacation days)... That doesn't even touch on the fact that you have equipment to pay for, fuel to buy, etc... PLUS, most of us have to make the bulk of our living in 9 or 10 months instead of all 12. No...I just don't think many people will understand all of the things that go into a "high" per hour rate.

Like Todd aluded to: stick to the contract. If something changes, get it in writing (change the original contract, and have both parties initial the change) unless you are willing to take the loss of not getting paid for the change. That would have taken care of your example regardless of how it was priced. Based on what you have said: I am pretty sure they could have only paid you for the time it took to take down 6 trees...you would have lost in court unless the contract said "all marked trees". From your description if sounds like it said "6 trees to be marked". If you didn't have a contract (assuming the total job was over $500), you definately would have not had a case in court.


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## highasatree (Jul 20, 2008)

Many of my corporate clients I charge by the hour or the day. The school board, cemeteries, property management companies usually fax over a work order with a discription of the work to be done, and I charge by the hour. I've done work for these clients for the last 15 years and they know the job will be done right and I am always fair to them.


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## CLEARVIEW TREE (Jul 20, 2008)

ATH said:


> The only time I price by the hour is when I am working for a friend (usually at a reduced rate). I tell them I can give them a price that will probably be a little high, but if it is OK with them, I'll just charge by the hour. "Regular" clients want a final price.
> 
> Or more importance though, I think charging by the hour is asking for sticker shock. When you tell them your per hour rate is $65, $75, $85 or whatever, the will think "gosh...I only make $20 per hour". Many people don't associate the other direct per hour costs to an employer (workers comp, social security), let alone the other fixed costs to employ somebody (for example, maybe, health insurance and vacation days)... That doesn't even touch on the fact that you have equipment to pay for, fuel to buy, etc... PLUS, most of us have to make the bulk of our living in 9 or 10 months instead of all 12. No...I just don't think many people will understand all of the things that go into a "high" per hour rate.
> 
> Like Todd aluded to: stick to the contract. If something changes, get it in writing (change the original contract, and have both parties initial the change) unless you are willing to take the loss of not getting paid for the change. That would have taken care of your example regardless of how it was priced. Based on what you have said: I am pretty sure they could have only paid you for the time it took to take down 6 trees...you would have lost in court unless the contract said "all marked trees". From your description if sounds like it said "6 trees to be marked". If you didn't have a contract (assuming the total job was over $500), you definately would have not had a case in court.


 Ended up telling them that it would be said amount more to do the others! They replied that in Colorado where they were from that they could get large trees over the house taken down for $80.00 each. So i told them maybe they should go get those guys. Needless to say, i collected what was due me, and went to the next customer the next day. Funny thing is, the wife was a traveling successful "Doggy Circus" and the husband was a geologist. I was very fair, despite them being very "un-broke" financially! You live and you learn, but no more hourly stuff. I'll just do like one bud said he does and price the best i know how in one lump and pad just a tad .:monkey:


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## CLEARVIEW TREE (Jul 20, 2008)

Some people are ridiculous ya know. In the past i've reminded them that you can't go get your back rubbed for less than $80.00 an hr, much less a tuneup at the dealer for less than $90.00 an hr! My gosh what are people thinkin, they totally are oblivious to the fact that you've got lots of expenses and as an added bonus you're dangling from a tree on a rope, coupled with a chainsaw! Hmm.... guess we gotta just suck it up and go on. Thanks and good luck to all.


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## arbor pro (Jul 21, 2008)

Removals - firm quote in writing. If too numerous to describe each tree in writing, then I might suggest taping off the area to be cleared or paint each tree (using your own custom printed tape or custom color paint so customer can't add to it later).

Pruning - usually hourly as there are many variables involved. Bid by job only when a firm bid is required. Either on gets put in writing describing scope of job.


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## CLEARVIEW TREE (Jul 21, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> Removals - firm quote in writing. If too numerous to describe each tree in writing, then I might suggest taping off the area to be cleared or paint each tree (using your own custom printed tape or custom color paint so customer can't add to it later).
> 
> Pruning - usually hourly as there are many variables involved. Bid by job only when a firm bid is required. Either on gets put in writing describing scope of job.


Very relevant and useful advice. Many Thanks


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## southsoundtree (Sep 21, 2008)

I've found most people want a bid on ordinary removals. I have more luck with hourly charges for pruning and storm damage. These are harder to quantify. I think that having become a CA has helped with charging hourly.

I've had some acceptance of grinding by the hour when they want to plant a tree or get rid of root-sprouters like western catalpa and aspen, explaining to them that what's underground is a mystery to me as much as to them, that I want to have the outcome (ground out enough for tree planting, ground out enough to deplete the roots of more energy to prevent resprouting). If they just want the tree 3" below grade 


When the homeowner want to do some of the work after we're done, such as drop and leave pruning/ canopy raising, etc., I explain that we work by an hourly rate, and I expect that in x hours we probably can get this, this, and this done. They can say that enough is enough whenever they're ready, after our mininum three hours. 


"For a production climbing arborist and an assistant, 10 yard chip truck, 9" capacity chipper, all the climbing/ rigging gears, licensed and insured, with workers' comp, fuel, etc... its $xxx/ hour for time onsite. "
I try to break it down, without breaking it down too much, to avoid sticker shock.


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