# Huskee/Speeco 22T won't start in the cold (even mild cold)



## kodiak (Dec 18, 2011)

Picked up a Huskee 22T with the B&S 675 engine a couple of weeks ago. Yesterday was the first chance I had to really split some wood with it. 

Pulled it out of the 35° garage and commenced to trying to get it started. It took literally 150 pulls alternating between priming and pulling and drying the plug before it finally kept running on its own. I even read the owners manual for their starting suggestions (prime 3x, pull 6x, repeat). Once it started, it restarted just fine throughout the day.

Move ahead to today and a little warmer temps and sure enough, the same starting issues. Came in and looked around AS for similar problems and found one user that said hitting the primer 10x before pulling worked better for him but it was still difficult to start. I did try more priming and seemed to get it to catch a little more often but it was certainly not the silver bullet.

I changed the oil as soon as I got it to synthetic 5W-30 to try to help with cold weather starting. TSC said they use 20W hydraulic fluid.

Anyone else have starting issues like this with this splitter? I realize this is an opening price point unit but come on, a splitter engine that doesn't like to start in near freezing temps???

I'm going to go have a beer and try to calm my nerves a bit before I push this POS into the firepit:angry2::angry2:


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## gulity1 (Dec 18, 2011)

I have the 35 ton husky/speedco model with the techsuma (sp?) engine on it and it has a hard time starting even in warm weather. Aussuming that you have no mechanical problems could be that you are trying to pull over cold/cool hydraulic fluid very had to do you can either warm the fluid with a kersone heater and maganitic block heater or what i have done in the past is get 2 metal trash cans lids throw in 5-8 charcoal briquets and start a fire in the lid then cap with other lid DONT DO THIS A GARAGE OR NEAR FALAMABLES just an idea for what its worth I have used the trash lid idea to warm up construction equipment and other diesel equiment in the very cold winter works just have a fire extingisher handy just in case. works best with the bottom lid handle removed and maybe beat a little so it lays flat 

Check out the engine see if its geeting fuel pull the plug is wet? Check the spark, pull the plug and reconect to the coil wire and ground to metal engine cover etc and check spark ? Just a couple of ideas.

If its fast, its expensive


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## reaperman (Dec 18, 2011)

One trick that sometimes works for a fussy engine is to remove the spark plug and heat it up with a lighter or match, then try to start it. I know it sucks when a engine wont start like it should. Just remember the old phrase: " If it has tits or tires, it will give you trouble"!


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 18, 2011)

Have you tried a new plug? Or a plug from another piece of equipment you have that does start normally? I'd go there first.

Another thing is to check the choke. I know you said the plug was wet but I have seen a BUNCH of equipment in recent years that the cables were NOT adjusted correctly. Neighbor had a Deere riding mower that he always cranked and cranked on. One day I got sick of hearing it and walked over. We opened the hood and took the air cleaner off and the butterfly had about a 1/4 gap from closed. Adjusted it to full shut and it starts within 5 seconds now.

From there I'd check compression. Loose headbolts are common problem. If that checks out along with choke your down to ignition parts.


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## kodiak (Dec 18, 2011)

OP here, there are a couple things I should point out.
- The machine is new and has had a total of 3 tanks of gas run through it which was yesterday.
- There is no choke, only a primer bulb.
- There is spark as it will fire every once in a while, but when it does it dies after 2-3 seconds
- This problem only exists when it has been stored in temps around 35-40 degrees. I've left it in my heated garage overnight and it starts fairly easily. 

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Any ideas related to the cold weather? Anyone else have this issue with this model?


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## utilityman (Dec 18, 2011)

I have the same wood splitter. All of the newer engines are getting away from a manual choke and just using the primer bulb. I keep mine outside all the time. I just keep a peice of plywood over the engine. The trick to starting it is to pump the primer bulb maybe up to 20 times on the coldest days. You will know when you have primed it enough because it will fire on the first pull. I also use startron ethenol treatment in all my small engines. Dollar for dollar this is a great little splitter for the price.


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## Mosby (Dec 18, 2011)

I have the same problem with both my splitter(different splitter) and my chipper. Not only difficult but to start when cold but the process is simply too time consuming and frustrating for me. I just bought a magnetic block heater and I am going to use a propane heater to warm the area up a little before I need to get them started. 

My detached garage that I store them in is uninsulated and not heated. I am going to insulate in the spring and I am working on a solution to get some better heat in it after I insulate, just to make it easier on my equipment and hopefully easier on me as well.

Switching to a 5W-30 is something I am doing as well but my primary solution long term is to store my equipment in a warmer environment FWIW.


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## doobie57z (Dec 18, 2011)

yup.II have to pump the primer at LEAST 10x, but I call cold 20 degrees or less. I used atf instead of hydro fluid. Also check these suggestion...http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/186727.htm


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## kodiak (Dec 19, 2011)

A number of you suggest hitting the primer bulb 10-20 times before pulling. Doesn't this run the risk of flooding? How do you know if you've pressed it too many times? I don't know how many times I pulled the spark plug yesterday and it was literally dripping with fuel.


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## 76mark (Dec 19, 2011)

I picked up the Huskee 22T last week and had the same problem over the weekend. I almost have up on it by the time it finally started. Earlier in the week when it was warmer it started 1-2 pulls.


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## zogger (Dec 19, 2011)

Man, take it back if you bought it new. That's ridiculous. Haul it over on a cold morning and get the dealer to try and start it. Sounds like it has a maladjusted carb, bad carb, something. Maybe there is a different carb will mount to it, one with a real choke. If it was electric start and in a pinch you can always do the hold a piece of wood or cardboard over the intake as a field expedient choke, but really, you shouldn't have to hassle with a new piece of equipment like that. Yes, you could heat it up ahead of time, any number of ways to do that. But you shouldn't have to. Who knows, maybe the timing is off, maybe it is the wrong plug, or gapped incorrectly.

And modern gas just sucks. It just does. it has to evaporate to work, and cold makes it not want to evaporate. 

I've never run Av gas, but maybe a spash or two mixed into normal pump gas might help it. Wouldn't use much though, salt to taste. 

Ha! I remember one day I was working a job in Maine, had an old 62 valiant with the slant six. 20 something below, as in freeking no fooling around cold. NONE of all the other guys rides would start (staying at an inn, mix of construction workers and loggers there). They all razzed me previously on my (literally) hundred dollar junker. It wasn't a big macho he man V8 muscle car or giant 4wd pickup.

I jump started everyone that morning! I did that twice so far in my previous rides experience, once with that valiant, another time with a 74 dart here in Atlanta on a very rare below zero day when staying at a townhouse with neighbors, same engine. Those slant sixes just worked. You know those real cold days when the air in the tires condenses and all your tires get semi flat until you drive on them and warm them up? bumpitybumpitybumpity down the road a coupla miles before they "round back out'? One of *those* days. Zee-ro of those guys rides would start without a jump.

Not all engines and carbs are created equal when it comes to cold weather starting!

Final thought, your splitter being new, the engine isn't broke in yet, that will make it harder to start until it is.

Then there's always a shot of ether..I don't like using it, but will admit I have had to resort to it in the past (not the slant sixes though)


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## Richard Dupp (Dec 19, 2011)

kodiak said:


> Picked up a Huskee 22T with the B&S 675 engine a couple of weeks ago. Yesterday was the first chance I had to really split some wood with it.
> 
> Pulled it out of the 35° garage and commenced to trying to get it started. It took literally 150 pulls alternating between priming and pulling and drying the plug before it finally kept running on its own. I even read the owners manual for their starting suggestions (prime 3x, pull 6x, repeat). Once it started, it restarted just fine throughout the day.
> 
> ...



I have the exact same splitter (Huskee 22T) and on a cold start, after five plunges on the primer it starts first, second or third pull. Only time I have to pull several times is when I let it run out of gas, so I try to refuel now before that happens and it restarts easily. I have not tried it below 20 F, but in the twenties, it starts fine.

I know this is not much help diagnosing the problem, but mine seems to start well, so I do not suspect it to be a wide-spread problem with the splitter.


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## kodiak (Dec 19, 2011)

Richard Dupp said:


> I have the exact same splitter (Huskee 22T) and on a cold start, after five plunges on the primer it starts first, second or third pull. Only time I have to pull several times is when I let it run out of gas, so I try to refuel now before that happens and it restarts easily. I have not tried it below 20 F, but in the twenties, it starts fine.
> 
> I know this is not much help diagnosing the problem, but mine seems to start well, so I do not suspect it to be a wide-spread problem with the splitter.



Once the engine catches, do you have to continue to hit the primer bulb or does it stay running? Also, where do you have the throttle set at? The manual says put it at full for a cold start so that's what I've been mainly doing.


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## kodiak (Dec 19, 2011)

Another thing I should mention is that the fuel is new 92 octane non-ethanol. Same stuff I run in all my other power equipment.


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## EXCALIBER (Dec 19, 2011)

I often wondered how some of these splittlers started in the cold, many I see have no way of disconnecting the hydraulic pump from the engine to aid in starting it. That is one of the reasons I bought a swisher splitter, it has a belt that runs from the hyd pump to the engine, and another pulley on a sliding shaft that tensions the belt. When its colder than a well diggers butt I simply turn the fuel on, pull the sliding shaft out disconnecting the hyd pump, pump primer bulb a handful of times, then usually it starts first pull. I let the engine warm a few seconds then slowly engage the hyd pump. I have also sometimes forgot to disconnect the hyd pump before I pulled the cord, and the cold fluid will yank the dang rope right out of your hand, or slow your pull down so much that you know you are not going to get it started that way.


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## kodiak (Dec 20, 2011)

Does anyone else switch out the hydraulic fluid in the winter just for easier starts? Seems like kind of a waste but if that's what it takes...


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## Whitespider (Dec 20, 2011)

kodiak said:


> *Another thing I should mention is that the fuel is new 92 octane non-ethanol. Same stuff I run in all my other power equipment.*



I find that most small 4-cycle engines run better and start easier using ethanol-free 87-octane fuel, 2-cycles like the higher octane. The octane rating is simply the "resistance to ignition", higher octane resists ignition longer, meaning a higher octane fuel requires a hotter spark and/or higher compression and/or a more advanced ignition timing than a lower octane fuel.

From what you describe, I'm leaning towards weak or retarded ignition spark. (Re)setting the coil gap closer to the flywheel, a new plug and a lower octane fuel may solve the problem (or at least it has for me several times).


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## frogg (Dec 20, 2011)

i have the same splitter.... here`s what i do use only 93 gas i all my equip. give it a shot of starting fluid works every time. mine still has the same hydro. that came from tsc.
i use 10/30 oil never had any problems.

cm


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## lost in woods (Dec 20, 2011)

I have the same splitter, bought it about 4 weeks ago. And run 87 octane. So far it starts ok. I split wood on a cold morning about a week ago, temp in upper teens, lower 20s. I primed it more than 3x's though , maybe 6x's.


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## shelbythedog (Dec 20, 2011)

frogg said:


> i have the same splitter.... here`s what i do use only 93 gas i all my equip. give it a shot of starting fluid works every time. mine still has the same hydro. that came from tsc.
> i use 10/30 oil never had any problems.
> 
> cm



Quick shot of starting fluid works well for me. If the engine has no choke, you might try putting your hand over the carb intake to act as a choke and give it a tug, just leave a small amount uncovered. EPA must not like a manual choke because we would all forget to take it off and split all day with the engine chugging along like a steam locomotive and having 2 minute cycle times. Glad they are lookin out for all of us.


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## Bl8tant (Dec 20, 2011)

I have the same splitter, and have had similar issues. I'm a small-engine gearhead and I know how frustrating a cranky engine can be. The bad news is that most of your issue is related to the cold fluid in the hydraulic system. It makes it difficult to spin the engine fast enough to get it to fire and have enough inertia left to KEEP running even if it fires. Since we have no way to disconnect the pump from the engine, your only option is to improve the conditions as much as possible. Use ethanol-free fuel, don't be afraid to use starting fluid, warm the splitter if you have any way to do so (magnetic block heaters really work), make sure you have a good plug, heat the plug.........ANYTHING you can do to give the engine a better chance to get spinning. The real bummer is that the hard-to-start due to cold weather issue also makes it easy to flood the engine. Keep a plug wrench and propane torch handy (remove plug, use torch to dry/warm plug).
On a side note, I switched the L-head briggs that came with the splitter for a OHV briggs (quieter, little more power), and the new engine has the same issue. If anything the new motor is even harder to start, but it's also spinning a 13gpm pump in lieu of the factory 11gpm pump. I cured 90% of my issues with ethanol-free fuel and magnetic block heaters (one on hydraulic tank, one on engine block). 

Good Luck.....


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## beerman6 (Dec 21, 2011)

Thick oil and cold temps=hard to pull fast.


Thats why I store my generator in the basement.The one time we lost power and it was cold enough(-10) to make me worried,I walked out to the barn and tried to start it :msp_mad: Ended up having to run just the circulating pump on the OWB off of an inverter plugged into my car for 2 hours...


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## Streblerm (Dec 21, 2011)

I notice with mine that pulling it over to TDC before giving the cord a yank really makes a difference in how it starts. I prime mine 5 or six times, slowly, keeping my finger on the primer bulb as it returns to position. I pull the cord slowly until I can feel the piston coming up on the compression stroke. Once that happens I pull the starter slowly until the starter pawls engage. Once everything is tight I give it a GOOD swift pull. It almost always starts this way in one pull.

Just pressing the primer in then letting go and/or yanking on the starter cord without pulling it over to tdc usually results in a no start.


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## kodiak (Dec 21, 2011)

Thanks for all the encouragement, it's good to know I'm not alone. Regarding the 92 octane fuel, it's the only stuff I can get my hands on that's non-ethanol. 

Another thing I should mention is that when the engine does catch, it runs right up to full RPM, runs for a few seconds then dies. The fact that it's able to go to full RPM I believe is an indication that the hydraulic oil may not be the primary culprit. 

Sound like I just need to keep working with it to find the magical number of primer pushes. I do have a heated garage that I could move it into a day ahead of time but I don't always know that far in advance when I'll need it. 
*
My main frustration is in the fact that this thing is BRAND NEW and the engine that Speeco has selected to use appears to be quite finicky in colder weather. I mean really, did they not expect their log splitters to be used in the winter???*


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## olyman (Dec 21, 2011)

try a new high quality spkplug...ive fought the snowblower one year,,after it ran fine the year before.got a new plug,bingo!! same good brand plug,,but what happened in the summer and spring months,for the old plug not to work???? also got a new one,,for the cs,just because. put it in,,and it wouldnt start!! put in the old one,instant start!! brand new plug,NO GOOD!!! sheesh...


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## Whitespider (Dec 21, 2011)

*Kodiak*,
I didn’t notice that you’re in Minnesota until just now (pretty observant of me, huh?). Are you sure the 92-octane fuel you’re using is ethanol-free? It is my understanding_(??)_ that, by law, all gasoline in Minnesota must contain at least 10% ethanol… except for some “special-use” fuels.

 In 2005, Minnesota passed an aggressive law that requires all gasoline sold in the state to contain 10% ethanol.
In 1989, the mandatory pump labeling requirement for ethanol blends was discontinued in favor of voluntary labeling.
In 1992, a minimum 2.7% oxygen content requirement was established for gasoline.
In 2000, the content of non-ethanol oxygenates such as MTBE in gasoline sold in Minnesota was restricted to 1/3%. Zero percent allowed for sale after July 2005.
In 2005, law required 20% ethanol content in all gasoline by 8/30/2013.

So a couple of points…

Minnesota law does not require pump labeling of ethanol blended gasoline.
Minnesota law requires 2.7% oxygen in gasoline.
Minnesota law has banned all oxygenates except ethanol.
Minnesota law mandates an increase from 10% to 20% over the next few years.
The infrastructure to blend ethanol into all gasoline is already in place.
The EPA has given approval to increase ethanol to 15% in gasoline.

Given the laws in Minnesota… the simplest, cheapest, easiest, legal way for gasoline distributors to market a high octane gasoline is to just increase the ethanol content to something over 10%. You may very well be using 15% ethanol blended gasoline… and that’s surely gonna’ make for difficult starting in cold(er) temperatures. As ethanol cools it becomes more and more difficult to ignite… and it ain’t linear.

I wouldn't be too quick to blame the engine, or Speeco's choice of engine.


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## kodiak (Dec 21, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> *Kodiak*,
> I didn’t notice that you’re in Minnesota until just now (pretty observant of me, huh?). Are you sure the 92-octane fuel you’re using is ethanol-free? ...



The gas comes from a dedicated pump labeled as ethanol free. The same label goes to say that it is for off-road use only and gives examples (snowmobiles, ATVs, etc...). At over $4 a gallon, I doubt that many are filling their vehicles with it.


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## Whitespider (Dec 21, 2011)

Yep, that would be "special use" fuel.


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## 1harlowr (Dec 21, 2011)

Mine did the same thing last winter before I replaced the Briggs with a cheap Harbor Freight Honda knock off. Mine would fire for 2-3 seconds and die. If I kept priming it for that 2-3 seconds (for 20-30 seconds) it would then keep running. I think there was an air leak around the air filter where it hooks to the engine. When the engine warmed it expanded just enough to shut the leak off. 
Changed the engine because I got the new one for $70 and a two year warranty. New engine is quieter and uses less fuel.


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## Streblerm (Dec 21, 2011)

kodiak said:


> Thanks for all the encouragement, it's good to know I'm not alone. Regarding the 92 octane fuel, it's the only stuff I can get my hands on that's non-ethanol.
> 
> Another thing I should mention is that when the engine does catch, it runs right up to full RPM, runs for a few seconds then dies. The fact that it's able to go to full RPM I believe is an indication that the hydraulic oil may not be the primary culprit.
> 
> ...



Yep, sounds like something other than hydraulic oil. Once mine starts it will keep running with no problem. Yours sounds like its too lean. Either not enough fuel or a vacuum leak somewhere. I have been totally happy with mine so far.


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## Ironworker (Dec 21, 2011)

When ever I start my motorcycle in the winter, I run my heat gun up and down the jugs, the heads and the lowered and it starts right up, plus B&G's aren't the best engines, that's why I went the extra bucks for a Troybilt with the Honda, that puppy always fires right up.


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## haveawoody (Jan 15, 2013)

Anyone having cold start problems on the speeco 22t or huskie the problem is quite a quick fix.

Just fixed a buddys speeco 22 he got for xmas and after looking at all the things it might be it turned out to be the factory spark plug.
Seems like to much pressure was put on cranking in the plug at the factory so the electrodes are quite close even on some new machines.
After it runs a few times those close electrodes get worse and presto no start.

Cheap plug on the original briggs engine.
Check your plug for gap if you are having cold start problems, get yourself an EZ start plug with decent electrodes and don't crank it in to tight when you install it.

Hope that helps a few frustrated people here hunting for the reason.


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## dave_dj1 (Jan 15, 2013)

I thought I read on here a while back that there was air leaking around the primer bulb? I think they should go back to chokes but that's just my feeling. 
Pretty sad when a 70 dollar Chinese motor will out perform an American made B&S. But I digress.................................


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## haveawoody (Jan 15, 2013)

dave_dj1,

Guess it pays to own and work on about 50 different pieces of various small gas machine 

Sad that they put such a crappy soft original sparkplug in that motor.

I bet the primer bulb gets it's set of problems also.
I love small machines with a primer bulb, without them you get elbow dissorders some days. LOL

From what i saw on his splitter i really saw no other problems with the brigg engine.
Not a big fan of the air filter acting as a gas/carb cover so i bet a loose screw on it makes for tough starts also and lots of fuel running down the air filter.
Sounds like a great place for a fire to start up with a backfire.



I think if you have problems with a newish machine with a factory plug still in it look to the plug as step #1.
Heck the soft primer might just be a plug that has gotten a bit squished, more fuel and a start and much easier to start in warm weather.

After i changed his plug and primed 3 times it started on first pull and temp is about 20f here today.
Just regular 10w30 oil and regular hydrolic oil in it so me thinks the cheap plug is making people go hunting for other culprits.

As for chinese motors.
I've owned a few and they are all scrap now.
I'm not saying everything you buy cheap is cheap but what i have bought was.
I buy Canadian first, then NA then Europe, then i check offworld places, then chinese epuiptment


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## stihl023/5 (Jan 15, 2013)

The vertical shaft models have a briggs like on a push mower. Ever start one of these under 40? Sure they have a primer but they also need a choke.


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## haveawoody (Jan 15, 2013)

stihl023/5,

Yeah his is a V/H splitter.
Was about 20f today and no problem, first pull after the new plug.
I agree a choke would be a nice addon to the machine, a fuel shotoff an even better addon.
I see gummed engine in the future when it gets turned off with fuel remaining. 

I will check when it gets real cold and see what it does for him.


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## Mntn Man (Jan 15, 2013)

I scanned pretty fast but I don't think anyone mentioned going with 5w 30 synthetic oil. Try pulling the engine with conventional oil; change to 5w 30 synthetic (same temp) and be amazed how easy it turns over. I have never had any problem starting in very cold weather since I have switched. It only holds like 20 oz so cheap fix. I also run synthetic 32 hydraulic oil but only because I got it free from work.


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## groundup (Jan 15, 2013)

I have the same splitter. You need to prime it without gloves. If you have gloves you won't seal the vacuum hole on the bulb and as others have said give it about 10 pumps


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## Mac88 (Jan 15, 2013)

Hmmmh. My umpty decades old 10 horse Tecumseh starts on the second or third pull, every time. Of course, it's not a hi-tech engine.


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## haveawoody (Jan 15, 2013)

Mntn Man,

I have an older speeco myself.
I never do anything with it, oil stays the same, hydo fluid stays the same and it starts on the coldest days.

New things are so picky now, me thinks cheap out from the company is why.
I bet you are right on a new machine 5w would be better for cold weather.

groundup,

Do you have the original plug in yours?
Try a new EZ start plug and i bet that 10 pump is back to 3.
$3 experiment 

I seem to remember having to change out the plug on a new briggs mower engine for the same reason.
Garbage factory sparkplug.


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## haveawoody (Jan 15, 2013)

Mac88,

Same for me, the older equiptment goes and keeps working until it really dies.
New stuff is a crap shot with limited odds


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## Butch(OH) (Jan 15, 2013)

We bought one last fall and know of three similar ones local and all acted exactly the same way. That engine is a POS and so is the carb design but it is complicated by emission standards that require lean burning. Mine will receive a 6HP Yanmar diesel as soon as I get tired of fussing with it but until then I fixed it and all the others nearby with a torch tip cleaner. 

Please realize you can easily screw up here but there is no death penalty, it just coats you a few bucks for a new part.

Remove the Mattel like air cleaner cover and the filter. Then the three screws that retain the back part of the air cleaner and primer bulb. All of this is so you can see what you are doing. Then take a small pair of vice grips and pinch the fuel line since they saw to it to not fit a :taped: shut off. Under the center of the fuel bowl is a brass hex piece that looks like a nut, remove it carefully, if the bowl sticks in place leave it alone. Now carefully look at the top off the piece you just removed. Use a magnifier if you have one handy. That little tiny hole you are looking at is the main jet. One of the smallest tip cleaner wires will pass through the hole. You may have to trim the end so the file like area will be in the hole. Pull it back and forth a few times 4-5 at the most making sure it is rubbing against one side or the other. You want to remove a VERY small amount of material, if visibly opened up you just screwed up. Since warm starting is different than cold thetrial and error period may take a few days but you do NOT want to remove too much, if you do it will both run and sound like a choke is stuck on and you will be ordering a new part to start over on. Be careful running the air cleaner screws in and out of the carb body since you are deal with plastic. A screw up here is more than a couple bucks. All in all if you screw it up so it doesn't run at all you have done yourself no disfavor. Replace it with something of better quality.


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## haveawoody (Jan 16, 2013)

Butch(OH),

Yeah with no fuel shotoff it's just a question of time before the carb gets gummed up.

Keep splitting until it runs out of gas i think is the easy answer.
A bit of sea foam overnight if it's really running rough from a gum up.

I've rescued many a badly gummed up carb with a couple ounces of seafoam, empty all gas, put a couple ounces seafoam in the tank, pull the plug out, try to fire the engine 10 or so times , put the plug back in then leave it overnight that way.

Add fresh gas in the morning and 9 out of 10 times the piece of equiptment is like new.
1 out of 10 and it's manual carb jet cleaning time.
Thats always a fun time LOL


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## aaron (Jan 16, 2013)

I switched to synthetic oil, and use SeaFoam in my gas. My Huskee 22 starts on first pull everytime.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 16, 2013)

Yeah, I'd say try a new plug and if it has a choke, check that the plate is actually closing the whole way.

Oops! Just realized I only read the 1st page, maybe ya already did this.


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## groundup (Jan 16, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> Mntn Man,
> 
> I have an older speeco myself.
> I never do anything with it, oil stays the same, hydo fluid stays the same and it starts on the coldest days.
> ...



I will give the new plug a try Saturday and report back.


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## haveawoody (Jan 16, 2013)

groundup,

Thanks, will be nice get some input back and see if it's the main bug in the works.

Not sure if this will help you or not but i bought a.
Champion 5861 EZ start plug to replace his original.

I buy EZ start plugs in all my small equiptment and they have always been very reliable long lasting plugs.


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## Halligan (Jan 16, 2013)

I have the same splitter and according to the owners manual the correct spark plug is a Champion RJ19LM with the gap set at .020".


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## haveawoody (Jan 17, 2013)

Halligan,

I think that is the plug i took out as the original.

Not sure if Briggs just had a bad line of plugs or not but the plug in my friends had softish metal on top so the gap can wander as the machine warms and a real cheap electrode under it.
I didn't even try to re gap it, looked that crappy.

If you get the recommended plug just have a good look at it and make sure you don't inherit the same problem back.
I personally like the EZ start line, tough metal on top and a real nice big electrode under.
Makes for easy starts on any pull thing.


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## groundup (Jan 17, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> groundup,
> 
> Thanks, will be nice get some input back and see if it's the main bug in the works.
> 
> ...



Thanks, will pick one up and report back

Just curious, what makes them EZ start plugs? How are they different from normal plugs, any disadvantages?

It just seems like if they are easier to start and there is no disadvantage then why not use them exclusively?


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 17, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> Halligan,
> 
> I think that is the plug i took out as the original.
> 
> ...



Kind of a side note to this but interesting none the less concerning gaps and such. Back in my younger years I bought and still have/use a Honda 200X 3 wheeler. I was taking it to a remote woods to go mushroom hunting and was worried about someone stealing it while I was out looking. They have no ignition locks so I decided I would be smart and put in a dummy plug. I took an old plug and broke the metal off the end of the plug that bridges the gap to the electrode. All was fine and installed it in when I got to the woods.

Found a bunch of morels and was eager to get back to show my Dad. Got on the ATC and started back. When I was half way back I remembered I hadn't changed the plug. The thing was running fine. The spark was jumping the gap from the body of the plug to the electrode! Testament to Honda's strength of ignition and NEVER would have thought it would do that.


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## chugbug (Jan 17, 2013)

I've been a autolite fan for years , ever since champion had so many problems with there heat ranges. I sell plugs mainly automotive but alot of small engine also , it got to the point where my customers wouldn't buy champion plugs anymore and I had to switch , so I went with autolite . 

Here is a link to the autolite site , it explains the difference of there version of a ez start plug they call it the xtreme start for small engines scroll down to the second pic.http://autolite.com/products/spark_plugs/small_engine_spark_plugs/product_list


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## haveawoody (Jan 17, 2013)

groundup,

Same company Champion so it's an easy matchup for numbers.
Just an all around better plug IMO.
Even on very old equiptment with a weak coil or tired engine they seem to be much less pulling to start.

EZ start plugs are generally $1 more than regular but last about 2X as long.


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## haveawoody (Jan 17, 2013)

Kevin in Ohio,

Yeah those hoda engines will run on moonshine and chicken wire for pluggs.
Makes you wonder why other companies don't sit down and just duplicate most of the workings into the machines they make.


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## haveawoody (Jan 17, 2013)

chugbug,

Nice site, I'm always hunting for plugs for one thing or another so i will take advantage of that site. 

I hear you on Champion plugs.
Pretty much every piece of equiptment I've ever had that had original champion plugs i change out to EZ start champion as soon as they get iffy.
I agree on heat on the standard line Champion has, plugs get over hot and gap gets sloppy or the electrode gets messy or both.
Short life for most of the plugs they sell IMO.

Champion EZ start seems to be the only good line of plugs for that company.
Will be nice to use your site and try another company line of EZ starting plugs.


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## ETpilot (Jan 17, 2013)

I had an ATV with an engine that would not start. Checked everything on it including spark at the plug. It all checked out. Then I decided to check the plug on my aircraft spark plug cleaner/tester. I found that with no compression the spark would jump the gap indicating a good spark. But, when I added air pressure for the bomb test, the plug failed miserably; a breakdown in the spark. A new plug fixed the problem.

Now with hard or no start engines, I always test the plug to see if it is the problem.


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## Whitespider (Jan 17, 2013)

A new plug can never hurt and often will fix problems seemingly not related. The thing is, with these lean-jetted EPA carbs, they just don’t pull enough fuel in cranking them over when cold. Fuel volatility is part of the problem… cold fuel isn’t as volatile (doesn’t vaporize as easily), and if it can’t vaporize it can’t get to the cylinder. Also, if the gas has been sitting in the tank and float bowl for a week or two some of the volatiles evaporate out… which compounds the problem further. Using ethanol-blended fuels will also make the situation worse, because ethanol is high octane (harder to ignite) compared to gasoline, and once the volatiles evaporate from the gas… well, you end up with a less volatile, higher octane fuel. You end up with a fuel that doesn’t want to vaporize, and what little does vaporize doesn’t want to ignite. Basically, if the fuel (especially ethanol-blended fuel) is just the slightest bit stale… those lean-jetted EPA engines are a huge PITA to start when it’s even remotely cold outside.

If they won’t start with two or three pulls on the rope, the quickest, easiest, most hassle-free way to get them started is to pull the plug and dribble a little _fresh_ fuel in the cylinder (it doesn’t take much, I use a piece of small diameter fuel line to transfer the fuel to the cylinder - like putting your finger over one end of a straw to lift some soda-pop from a cup), put the plug back in, then pump the primer button and crank it over... they'll fire right up 99% of the time.


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## groundup (Jan 17, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> Kevin in Ohio,
> 
> Yeah those hoda engines will run on moonshine and chicken wire for pluggs.
> Makes you wonder why other companies don't sit down and just duplicate most of the workings into the machines they make.



If I had the option of a Honda over the Briggs I would have gladly paid extra. Part of me wishes I chose a different splitter just for that reason.


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## kmcinms (Jan 17, 2013)

*Ether*

I didn't read the whole thread, but cold starting a lean engine is a pain in the neck. Not sure if this had been suggested, try using a small shot if starting fluid. It's relatively safe and easy to use. 
whitespider has the technical side of the fuel situation down to a science, and is correct about the make up and properties. I've done the fresh fuel in the cylinder trick forever and it works. 
You got to remember, you're turning the hydro pump when you're cranking on that engine. The rpm is a good bit lower and less when starting cold.


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## haveawoody (Jan 17, 2013)

groundup,

I'm lucky when i got mine a number of years ago it came with the honda engine.
Works like a tank in pretty much any conditions.
But then again Honda sells it's engine with useful factory plugs.

Speeco 22t is a wonderful splitter.
I'm sure once you get a new plug you will be more than happy with it again even on cold days.

Honda has it's set of issues just different ones like all small engines do.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 19, 2013)

add me to the list! peice of ####!!! been pullin on for 3 days! ive tried everything mentioned here. when the dang thing does fire, it runs for 2-3 seconds then stops. really pissin me off!!! o and today was 40 degrees. come on! these last three days are the first time ive had an issue. its always started in a couple pulls.


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## Butch(OH) (Jan 19, 2013)

It oughta run when it is 40 out. You might have some dregs from the tank partially plugging the main jet. My experience is it's not the plug but some guys seem to be having luck by replacing it, cheap to try. Mine started today on pull one but I have one of these babys in the shop just begging for something to do, it wont be long.


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## groundup (Jan 19, 2013)

*new plug*

So I ran the EZ start plug and it still would not fire without 8 or so primer pumps, not sure what the problem is but that's what I know


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## haveawoody (Jan 20, 2013)

groundup,

It got somewhat better so now i bet yours is a gummy carb from all that trying to fire on a rough plug.
This will fix up that problem.

Run the tank of gas dry, may as well split while doing that.

Add a couple ounces of seafoam to the empty tank, remove the plug, prime as normal and pull the rip about 30 times, prime again, put the plug back in and leave it overnight that way.

Next day add gas and see how it goes.
First couple starts it might run like a dog or be a pain to start with all the deposits and seafoam trying to burn away.

If that doesn't get it running decent than you might have a lemon version engine or it needs proper service for a coil or carb problem.


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## haveawoody (Jan 20, 2013)

aaronmach1,

Your symptoms are classic plug problems.
Take your plug out and have a look at the gap, i bet it's non existant.
Easy to squash the factory plug on this briggs engine so if you do discover it's the problem when you put a new plug back in dont crank it in to hard.

The plug that comes with the engine is softish and cheap and electrode not much better.

IMO other than the EZ start line of champion plugs i would never replace a champion plug with a champion plug.
They just are not what they used to be for plugs IMO.


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## chugbug (Jan 20, 2013)

Groundup . when my junk Briggs fires it will only run for a couple seconds and then quit , I have to be ready to hit the primer bulb real quick to keep it running or I'm pulling the rope again , I'll keep my finger on the primer and just give it a little push not a full push thats to much until it will run by itself , kind of acts like a choke .Have you tried this.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 20, 2013)

aaronmach1 said:


> add me to the list! peice of ####!!! been pullin on for 3 days! ive tried everything mentioned here. when the dang thing does fire, it runs for 2-3 seconds then stops. really pissin me off!!! o and today was 40 degrees. come on! these last three days are the first time ive had an issue. its always started in a couple pulls.



You've changed plug and gas? If so do you have good compression? Have you tried to start without air cleaner on? Common on Briggs to start and run then die when filter is choking it. From there you're down to dirt in the carb if everything metioned before is okay.


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## groundup (Jan 20, 2013)

Chug and Woody

Honestly I just give it 8 pumps and pull it and start splitting. It runs fine once started, just requires more than the 3x pumps.

I will give it a little seafoam and see what happens. However, I always run the tank dry after splitting, unless I know I'll be back on it the next day. I don't think it's a gummy carb because it's been like this since day one and is only a year old and again it's always run dry.

I am not real worried about it since it does start and run everytime


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## stihl023/5 (Jan 20, 2013)

Like I have said before this vert. Briggs motor is the same that you find on mowers etc. Thus the downfall is it needs a choke. Other than that it is great for warm weather use.


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## haveawoody (Jan 20, 2013)

groundup,

Sounds like it might be as good as it's going to get.
Seafoam will help clean things up for sure and tell you if the filter or carb was cloged if you see a change after, but it might be yours just likes lots of gas to start.
That could be as simple as your gas station adding methanol to gas, makes for a harder start on all equiptment. 

I think what you are doing in running it until the gas is empty is the best idea for this splitter.
All small engines with gas hanging around is a bad idea.


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## kodiak (Jan 20, 2013)

aaronmach1 said:


> add me to the list! peice of ####!!! been pullin on for 3 days! ive tried everything mentioned here. when the dang thing does fire, it runs for 2-3 seconds then stops. really pissin me off!!! o and today was 40 degrees. come on! these last three days are the first time ive had an issue. its always started in a couple pulls.



(OP here...) I'll reiterate what I wrote earlier about what works best for me and my Huskee 22T:
1) Start with a clean and dry plug.
2) Push the primer 10+ times, push and release it slowly and be sure to push it all the way in (bare finger works best). 
3) Slowly pull the rope until you feel that it's starting the compression stroke.
4) Place foot on splitter and pull HARD. If after 3 pulls it fails to catch, go back to step 1.
5) If the engine catches, immediately position your finger over the primer bulb and prepare to depress it at the first sign that it is starting to die. You mentioned that it will occasionally run for 2-3 seconds, hitting the primer in those cases may have saved it. 

Yes, this is one unimpressive engine as far as cold weather starting goes.


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## stihl023/5 (Jan 20, 2013)

Guys this engine with no choke does not like cold weather, pull out your push mower with no choke and try to start it. exact same thing. I have a home made splitter horizontal briggs with a choke that does start cold. But in this weather I'm not splittin I'm burnin.:bang:


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 20, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> aaronmach1,
> 
> Your symptoms are classic plug problems.
> Take your plug out and have a look at the gap, i bet it's non existant.
> ...


checked it a few times now. .020 its right where it should be. getting awesome spark.checked and the butterfly seems to be always full open at starting position. was able to hold it shut down some like a choke and had worse results...


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## beerman6 (Jan 20, 2013)

Mine started and ran great yesterday after 3 pulls,40 degrees and aint been run in 2 months...2 logs left and I twisted the lift like a pretzel :bang:


but mine does have a choke.


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## John R (Jan 20, 2013)

kodiak said:


> (OP here...) I'll reiterate what I wrote earlier about what works best for me and my Huskee 22T:
> 1) Start with a clean and dry plug.
> 2) Push the primer 10+ times, push and release it slowly and be sure to push it all the way in (bare finger works best).
> 3) Slowly pull the rope until you feel that it's starting the compression stroke.
> ...



Good advice, this is how I start mine and keep it running until it warms up a bit.
I run synthetic oil in my engine, it also seem to help some.


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## haveawoody (Jan 20, 2013)

aaronmach1,

Bets it's a combo of methanol gas and a champion plug.

I think the choke or lack of it has something to do with it but i have a feeling it's a combo of things making it tough to start.

Match you original champion plug numbers to any of the EZ start of EZ ignition plugs and make sure you have methanol free gas and i bet things get much better.

If i'm in a rush for a job and pick up methanol gas for my chainsaws they are many pulls to start, on regular non methanol a couple pulls.
The colder the weather the more pulls so methanol gas has a big impact on small engines in the winter.


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## haveawoody (Jan 20, 2013)

stihl023/5,

Hmmm! i wonder if some piece of equiptment with this engine has a choke on it?
Might be a real cheap solution to custom the non choke splitter version.


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## stihl023/5 (Jan 20, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> stihl023/5,
> 
> Hmmm! i wonder if some piece of equiptment with this engine has a choke on it?
> Might be a real cheap solution to custom the non choke splitter version.



It is a nice motor for warm weather but is just not set up for cold starting.


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## Austin1 (Jan 20, 2013)

Well I have a 15 ton with a china "Honda" on it that's the way they come in Canada. Never a problem in 4 years, until this year, it was really my fault too much wood cut the year before! So the splitter sat for six months it was 0°C and I pulled and pulled mine has a choke no primer but a squirt of starter fluid and it started and ran fine on the old gas.
I have fresh gas in her now and it is -16°C and she started fine a hour ago did about a 1/4 cord too. I have to say this year the winter is mild it has never got bellow -22°C a girly man winter 2008 it hit -42 with out the wind chill with it was close to -47 yuck as I get older I hate winter!! 
Ah heck back on topic try some carb cleaner, it too me sounds like a small problem all my old briggs snow blower's would start no matter how cold it was! 
But I cant complain about my CH Honda clone too


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## GVS (Jan 20, 2013)

aaronmach1 said:


> checked it a few times now. .020 its right where it should be. getting awesome spark.checked and the butterfly seems to be always full open at starting position. was able to hold it shut down some like a choke and had worse results...





Are you sure a .020 plug gap is called for? I'd think .030 is what is called for.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 20, 2013)

GVS said:


> Are you sure a .020 plug gap is called for? I'd think .030 is what is called for.


thats what i read in the manual last night, calls for .020.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 20, 2013)

emailed speeco, waiting on reply....


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## John R (Jan 20, 2013)

GVS said:


> Are you sure a .020 plug gap is called for? I'd think .030 is what is called for.





aaronmach1 said:


> thats what i read in the manual last night, calls for .020.



That's what my manual says too (.020), I gap it at .030 like everything else.


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## Como (Jan 21, 2013)

Warm day at this time of year is usually something without a -. But it has been unseasonally warm, today hit 40.

Seems you need 2 things, a choke and an an electric start. I did notice non ethanol helps mine and Seafoam as well. Much to my surprise the filter was gummed up and changing that out really helped. I did have an engine with started problems that turned out be a diaphragm issue.

We were down to -50 with the wind chill last week and I was not aware anybody had starting issues with their vehicles, mine was OK.

I was amused to see that the Manual said to keep the Battery inside if it drops below 40F?


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## Whitespider (Jan 21, 2013)

aaronmach1 said:


> *…the butterfly seems to be always full open at starting position. was able to hold it shut down some like a choke and had worse results...*


Yeah, you would have a worse result… that’s the throttle plate, it should be open during starting, and if you held it shut the engine would be getting even less fuel.
Did you try pulling the plug and putting a little _fresh_ fuel in the cylinder?


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## haveawoody (Jan 21, 2013)

stihl023/5,

Yeah i bet it's all a combo of crap plugs, methanol gas, crappy fuel filters and an engine that isnt at it best in the cold.
Nothing a squirt of quickstart can't solve though.

Seems like some people have no trouble with it in the cold, others it's a beast.


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## Whitespider (Jan 21, 2013)

Methanol gas?
Where the heck are you getting that?


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## chugbug (Jan 21, 2013)

Hasn't Speeco gotten back to anyone yet , these Briggs engines are giving everyone problems and if it continues I would think it could hurt the Speeco name and there sales . Mine is only 2 years old and its the most cold blooded engine I've ever seen . Also I would think Briggs could come up with a repair to fix the problem and make them available to the owners of equipment with these engines.


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## haveawoody (Jan 21, 2013)

Whitespider,

Just about everywhere they are mixing up to 10% in standard gasoline now.
Getting difficult to find just gas now without some % of something else in it.

All those high octane addatives are not great for small engines, when they run they run hot and in cold weather tougher to start.
Bet we all chew though lots more small equiptment as it becomes a standard to add to gasoline and the small engines pay the price.


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## reaperman (Jan 21, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> Whitespider,
> 
> Just about everywhere they are mixing up to 10% in standard gasoline now.
> Getting difficult to find just gas now without some % of something else in it.
> ...



Its ethanol, not methanol
Methanol is fuel made from converted natural gas.


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## Whitespider (Jan 21, 2013)

Methanol = CH[sub]3[/sub]OH
Ethanol = CH[sub]3[/sub]CH[sub]2[/sub]OH

Two completely different chemical compounds…
Drinking a pint of methanol will make you blind and likely kill you…
Drinking a pint of ethanol will just make you stupid…


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 21, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> Yeah, you would have a worse result… that’s the throttle plate, it should be open during starting, and if you held it shut the engine would be getting even less fuel.
> Did you try pulling the plug and putting a little _fresh_ fuel in the cylinder?


havnt tried this, ill give it a shot.


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## haveawoody (Jan 21, 2013)

Whitespider,
reaperman,

Me bad it is etanol.

I bet I've drunk both and thats how i made the mistake LOL


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## kmcinms (Jan 21, 2013)

Have you tried starting fluid that I suggested a few posts back yet? That's the easiest way to start a cold engine.


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## phantomblack (Jan 21, 2013)

I have the same engine on a MTD splitter. Pulled it out to fire it up to split some oak yesterday, it was about 10 degrees outside. I did my normal ritual of busting out the propane torch to heat the cylinder head and the spark plug for about 45 seconds and it started on the first pull. If you do not heat the head, the engine will struggle to even start on the "Canadian candy" (starting fluid)...

I guess that this is what you get when a lawn mower engine is put on a splitter. Calibrating a carburetor to start within a 100 degree temperature swing once the bean counters and the EPA get involved (100 degrees between the coldest that the engine is operated in to the hottest) is not as easy as you may think. As you can see with the engine it starts pretty darn good above 45 degrees.

There is kind of a cliff event for this engine starting cold around 40 degrees or so... Try the propane trick, it works for me.


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## phantomblack (Jan 21, 2013)

I have the same engine on a MTD splitter. Pulled it out to fire it up to split some oak yesterday, it was about 10 degrees outside. I did my normal ritual of busting out the propane torch to heat the cylinder head and the spark plug for about 45 seconds and it started on the first pull. If you do not heat the head, the engine will struggle to even start on the "Canadian candy" (starting fluid)...

I guess that this is what you get when a lawn mower engine is put on a splitter. Calibrating a carburetor to start within a 100 degree temperature swing once the bean counters and the EPA get involved (100 degrees between the coldest that the engine is operated in to the hottest) is not as easy as you may think. As you can see with the engine it starts pretty darn good above 45 degrees.

There is kind of a cliff event for this engine starting cold around 40 degrees or so... Try the propane trick, it works for me.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 21, 2013)

well speeco replied. they said take it to the nearest briggs n strapon dealer which they specified. so i took it there and filled out a ticket showed them my reciept and they said just leave it outside the door. so i just left it out where anyone could steal it and left. so far not feelin good about this fix.
funny thing is, they were working on the same exact splitter in there as i was dropping mine off.


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## GVS (Jan 21, 2013)

aaronmach1 said:


> thats what i read in the manual last night, calls for .020.



I'm beting .020 is a typo. I haven't seen a new B&S with that gap. That is not the cause of your starting problem however.


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## chugbug (Jan 21, 2013)

Let us know what the dealer does for a fix , if he tells you . It would interesting if they really have a fix for it.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 22, 2013)

chugbug said:


> Let us know what the dealer does for a fix , if he tells you . It would interesting if they really have a fix for it.



will do.... cant wait to hear it myself. The two guys working at the ma and pa shop looked real promising. As the guy asked and mumbled to me, "whats wrong with it", i thought he was gonna burp or barf on me. He was so greasy looking i thought his hat was gonna slip off. I hope to get a call from them today.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 22, 2013)

well they just called...... guy says its fixed come get it. I asked what was wrong and he said he replaced the plug and it starts up everytime now. 
I dont get it... the plug was getting a huge bright blue spark when i tested it. And it would fire up for 1-2 seconds then stall out. how is a new plug fixing this??? ill be testing it later tonight and ill let you guys know how it starts after a cold trailer ride home.


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## phantomblack (Jan 22, 2013)

Good luck, I hope that it helps. Not sure that it will though:msp_wink:


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 22, 2013)

phantomblack said:


> Good luck, I hope that it helps. Not sure that it will though:msp_wink:


no, it will. the guy at the place said it was fixed. nothing is wrong now. it just needed a plug:msp_biggrin::msp_scared:


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## kmcinms (Jan 22, 2013)

*Did you try a new plug*

..before you took it to the dealer? Firing under compression and firing in the atmosphere is two different events.... coulda been a faulty plug to begin with.
Buy known good plugs and you will be good to go. I've always used Champion plugs in small engines with no problems.
Hope that is all that is was. I can just hear the techs at the shop talking about how ......:taped: :msp_biggrin:


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## haveawoody (Jan 22, 2013)

aaronmach1,

That was my experience with fixing my friends.
Just a crappy factory plug replaced and it started on quite a cool day on first pull with 3 prime pumps.

I just converted his to an EZ start plug because i know i hate pulling on ropes more than needed and figured he would be the same

IMO this splitter engine line has 4 things to keep a check on when it's difficult to start.
#1 the plug.
#2 etanol mixed gasoline when it's cold outside.
#3 clogged fuel filter.
#4 design of choke or lack of it will probably limit this engine to starting no lower than -0 F, each degree closer to that and it will be a bit more difficult to start.

Many pulls to start and it's probably the plug.
Many pulls to start and it's cold but runs and starts ok in the warm and it's probably ethanol/gas fuel.
Starts and runs for a few seconds then dies it's probably a clogy fuel filter.

If your lucky you don't get all three at once LOL


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## haveawoody (Jan 22, 2013)

kmcinms,

I've had nothing but trouble with Champion plugs in small equiptment.
The EZ start line are wonderful plugs from Champion but other standard Champion plugs were always touble in all my small engines.

I stopped buying standard replacement champion plugs a few years ago but it sounds like i did myself a service


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## brenndatomu (Jan 22, 2013)

Two things here

1. Standard Champion plugs generate a ton of work for repair shops. They used to be good plugs, they've been total CRAP for years now though. When I worked at a local bike shop, anything that came in for a no start or running problems with a Champion plug in it, chit canned the Champion, installed a new NGK plug, you would be AMAZED how often that took care of the problem!

2. I'd never use ether (starting fluid) on a gasoline engine that I cared to keep around. It's extremely hard on them, especially a single cylinder engine! I have seen heads blown clean off B&S before, also spark plugs blown clean out of the head. It washes the oil off the cylinder walls and oil out of an oiled foam air filter too. Heck I won't even use ether but sparingly on a diesel!

Oh, and if it's a resistor type plug, they can seemingly have a mind of their own! Work sometimes, sometimes, NOT!


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 22, 2013)

issues tonight kept me from picking up the splitter. ill have to report back tomorrow night....


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## stihl023/5 (Jan 22, 2013)

aaronmach1 said:


> issues tonight kept me from picking up the splitter. ill have to report back tomorrow night....



Tease. :bang:


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## Whitespider (Jan 23, 2013)

aaronmach1 said:


> *I dont get it... the plug was getting a huge bright blue spark when i tested it. And it would fire up for 1-2 seconds then stall out. how is a new plug fixing this???*



Not sure why, but for some reason I was under the impression you had already tried a new plug???

It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if a new plug makes a huge improvement… I’ll go back to something I posted earlier in this thread, “_A new plug can never hurt and often will fix problems seemingly not related._” And also, from *kmcinms*, “_Firing under compression and firing in the atmosphere is two different events._”

Grounding the plug and watching for spark is not “testing” the plug, it’s testing the coil’s ability to make spark… you can do the same thing by holding the plug wire end while cranking the engine, but that can be a bit uncomfortable. Sure, if the plug has gone permanent “open” (like an internal break) there won’t be any spark, but just because there is spark doesn’t mean the plug is “good”. There’s a lot of different ways a plug can fail… compressed air/fuel and heat add a bunch of stress on the plug, which will cause problems not seen in open atmosphere. For example, firing the cylinder just a handful of times can raise the plug’s internal temperature enough to cause the center electrode to go high resistance/open, or cause an unseen hairline crack in the insulator to allow shorting. A classic example of a bad plug is when the engine will start just fine cold, and run just fine, but won’t restart when hot (although other things can cause this also); the plug’s resistance is increasing with heat and shutting the engine down causes it to sink even more heat from the cylinder head… end result is a plug that can’t make _enough_ spark to fire the engine until it cools off, which lowers resistance. An atmosphere of compressed air/fuel increases resistance between the plug’s air-gap… a plug that makes good spark in open atmosphere may make weak spark in the cylinder, or no spark at all. Adding more fuel increases resistance… have you ever had a car that would idle perfectly, but start missing under load?? Most often that will be traced down to a plug or plug wire with high resistance (higher than specified tolerances)… or a hairline crack in the insulator of either, causing a short as air-gap resistance increases in the cylinder.

I keep at least one new spare plug for every engine I own (quick count… 13); whenever I have any sort of problem (even seemingly unrelated) the first thing I try is a new plug (heck, they’re cheap). I would have to say, best guess, at least 2/3’s of the time a new plug “fixes” it. Besides, ain’t nothin’ that will pizz-you-off more than screwing around with a small engine for hours, or even days, when five bucks and sixty seconds to replace the plug “fixes” it… yeah, been-there-done-that!

I use NGK spark plugs (shrug)....


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## haveawoody (Jan 23, 2013)

Whitespider,

Got to love those days you semi dissasemble a piece of equiptment and last thing you do is look at the plug 3hrs later to discover it was rough looking.

I've done that a few times and learnt to change plug as step #1 now even if i think it's something else, like you say they are cheap and lots less work than 3hrs of playing small engine detective 

8.5 out of 10 times it was the plug.
1 out of 10 fuel filter of gummed carb.
.5 detective time.


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## kmcinms (Jan 23, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> kmcinms,
> 
> I've had nothing but trouble with Champion plugs in small equiptment.
> The EZ start line are wonderful plugs from Champion but other standard Champion plugs were always touble in all my small engines.
> ...





brenndatomu said:


> Two things here
> 
> 1. Standard Champion plugs generate a ton of work for repair shops. They used to be good plugs, they've been total CRAP for years now though. When I worked at a local bike shop, anything that came in for a no start or running problems with a Champion plug in it, chit canned the Champion, installed a new NGK plug, you would be AMAZED how often that took care of the problem!
> 
> ...



Lol. I wouldn't doubt a word about new Champions being junk now days. That line should have read , "in the past" I've had good service out of Champion plugs. I haven't bought a new plug for any of my lawn engines in decades. 

My '92 Husky 36 still has the original Champion in it. Starts just like it did when new and still runs strong. Same with my '95 51, original Champion plug. I know, doesn't seem right, right? :msp_confused:

On a different note, all my bikes get NGK plugs. I swear by NGK in my fourwheeler, dirt bikes and streetbikes. Not to say they don't have the same problems as any other plug, but just not as often.

Classic example of a bad plug like Whitespider described, was in one of my best running engines of all time, the Honda TRX 300 four wheeler. If anyone here has ever owned one, they know that if you breath on the starter button it fires up. So when it started acting up and not starting, the first thing I did was check the spark at the plug. Pulled the plug out and it fired strong. Re install, no love. New plug, fires right up. NGK plugs both times. No telling how many hours on the plug before this happens. I've gone through several since it first happened, my 300 is an '88, but a new plug *always cures the problem.*

Yup, I've had all my stuff a long time, I don't get rid of equipment that works, just the junk that doesn't cut the mustard. I still cut grass with my 1972 21" Whirlwind deck Toro mower that I bought as a one year trade in. I worked in a lawn equipment shop for a friend of the family after school and during the summer. Customer traded in his year old side bag Toro for the "new model" rear bagger. My boss sold me the mower for $75. I was 13 when I bought it . It doesn't have the original plug in it. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 23, 2013)

went to pick my splitter up 2 hours ago. Got there and seen it had sat outside all day yesterday and then all night last night in 1 degree temps. Today it was 18 degrees when i picked it up. i decided to try to start it there. First pull fires up and stalls from being so cold. again fires and stalls and again. then fires and runs perfect. Couldnt belive it fired everytime then ran perfect. Brought it home It fired up and ran first pull after the cold trailer ride and split for an hour. The guy said briggs and stratton has been having issues with the champion plugs. So it runs awesome now. All they did was put a new champion plug in it. LOL lesson learned for me!


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## philoshop (Jan 23, 2013)

Congratulations on having your splitter back and running 
They're great machines once the kinks are worked out. I've run some pretty nasty black locust through mine without a hiccup.
I did put a fuel shutoff on mine. Makes it easier to run it dry when its not going to be used for a while, and I've found it helps in starting after towing especially if its bouncing across the yard or through the woods. Gently bouncing mind you:msp_rolleyes:


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## haveawoody (Jan 23, 2013)

kmcinms,

I use ngk in a few pieces of equiptment also.
Always been good plugs, do they have a line of EZ start or EZ ignition plugs?

Yeah champion plugs really went downhill a couple years ago, well atleast for me.
They had short lifes to the plugs that came with equiptment and not much better from store bought.
I gave up trying them after it became clear i was always changing champion plugs only i was buying.


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## haveawoody (Jan 23, 2013)

aaronmach1,

Glad it was a simple fix and your back to work splitting away even in the cold.
Guess you lost any hope for an equiptment failure excuse for drinking now.
Well you could always just take the wire off get a case of beer and just ##### enough so the wife hears you. LOL


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## stihl023/5 (Jan 23, 2013)

Glad it is working for you and it looks like woody was right. (DONT LET YOUR HEAD SWELL) ha ha:msp_biggrin:


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## haveawoody (Jan 23, 2013)

stihl023/5,

Law of averages was with me.
Being wrong for so long the odds just went my way once.
Thats what the wife would say


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## chugbug (Jan 23, 2013)

Did they suggest a certain amount of push's on the primer bulb or any tips at all on starting them .


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 24, 2013)

chugbug said:


> Did they suggest a certain amount of push's on the primer bulb or any tips at all on starting them .



ive always used 3 pushes on the primer. also worked great last night in the cold. 3 pushes then pull.


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## Halligan (Jan 28, 2013)

I just replied to another thread on these Huskee 22ton splitters with a Briggs and this is what I posted. I hope it's a solution for some of you.
_
It seems this is a common complaint when the mercury drops below 35-40 degrees. I went to split some wood today and my Huskee 22t gave me a fit to start. So I got to thinking about this whole choke deal and heres my solution.

THE SHADETREE SOLUTION

The air filter cover on the Briggs allow air in at the bottom of the filter cover. Buy a 99 cent roll of electrical or masking tape and when it's cold out run a piece of tape across the air inlet holes to create a "choke". Once the machine fires up and runs for 10 second you can pull the tape off. You may need to leave small opening for some air to get in but it should work, at least in theory. _


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## chugbug (Jan 28, 2013)

Mine will fire on the first pull but quit right away , it always fires just won't stay running unless I can get to the primer bulb in time !!!! This EPA crap is frustrating to say it mildly , and I also blame Briggs they could have done better than this !!! And now they want to go with E15 ethanol


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## Fifelaker (Feb 7, 2013)

I just went out and split some maple. 26* primed 3 times gave it a pull it sputtered and died. 3 more times on the primer gave it a pull . had to keep on the primer for about 20 seconds and it ran on it's own. So far all I have done is re-gap the plug to .025" and syn oil. The plug looks like the ez start plug but the numbers don't match the ones I have seen in the store. I can live with this . I don't really like no choke but I can live with it. I am going to try when it's colder just to see if this still works.


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## stihl023/5 (Feb 7, 2013)

Fifelaker said:


> I just went out and split some maple. 26* primed 3 times gave it a pull it sputtered and died. 3 more times on the primer gave it a pull . had to keep on the primer for about 20 seconds and it ran on it's own. So far all I have done is re-gap the plug to .025" and syn oil. The plug looks like the ez start plug but the numbers don't match the ones I have seen in the store. I can live with this . I don't really like no choke but I can live with it. I am going to try when it's colder just to see if this still works.



Keep us posted.


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## chugbug (Feb 7, 2013)

Just ridiculous were going backwards in are engine building in the USA , pretty soon the junk from china will be better than a Briggs and Stratton .


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## haveawoody (Feb 8, 2013)

Fifelaker,

After i changed pluggs on my friends splitter he tells me it never has any trouble starting.
Been some mighty cold days he has used it on some huge piles of rock elm.

I think this engine will be just like some of the small garden equiptment that pluggs get fouled for no apparent reason.
Try a brand new plug and even if it doesn't fix the problem it's a very inexpensive test.
If it does fix the problem get another new plug for reserve when the splitter starts being a pain again.

I've got a couple pieces of equiptment that have reserve pluggs because they get fouled and even a gap and clean do little to nothing to make them easy to start, a new plug does though.


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## stihl023/5 (Feb 8, 2013)

I just noticed a yard machines splitter at a local store with a diff. briggs vert. shaft and it had a choke?:msp_ohmy:


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## haveawoody (Feb 8, 2013)

stihl023/5,

Cool!
I bet same engine with just a different carb or maybe same carb mount.
I bet it would be easy to put a choked carb on the one without, maybe.


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## chugbug (Feb 8, 2013)

I've been talking with Briggs a bit about this problem hoping that maybe they had come up with a fix that we could install ourselves . Well they act like there's no problem at all and I must be the only one out there with a problem . They went through the normal stuff first try a new plug , then try cleaning the main jet ( which is the bowl nut itself ) then they said maybe I could put a different carb. on it with a choke . I'll find out if they do have a different carb. with a choke that will bolt right up . Just frustrating when you buy a brand new machine and now you have start buying parts for it that should have been on it in the first place .


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## haveawoody (Feb 8, 2013)

chugbug,

That would be cool if they recomend a different carb you can put right on the engine.

Like everything made now it's a crapshoot, most of the time things are fine but more often not.
Not like the old days when companies cared about what they built, now it's $$$.

Tell them to send you this new carb that will fix the busted A_ _ machine for free and see what reply you get.
Let them know you have been thinking about taking it back to the store and buying the one with the honda engine instead.


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## chugbug (Feb 8, 2013)

I bet that won't go over very well , They should but then again that would cost them money !!! I'll see what they say .


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## artbaldoni (Feb 9, 2013)

Just split about a cord this morning with the 22T Huskee. 17F, started then died. 3 hits on the primer, throttle half way and it fired and kept running. 30 seconds at half,moved to full, cycled ram 3x and started to split. No worries.


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