# Started a New Stump Grinding Business.... Sheeeesh!



## kaiserkahn

My previous line of work slowly petered out a few months ago. I soon found a vermeer 352 self propelled at an extremely good price for the condition it was in and jumped feet first into stump grinding.

I went and looked at a utility trailer for my new/used stump grinder. This guy new someone who had about 50-60 stumps. I didn't buy his trailer, but he was nice enough to give me the name and address of the people needing the stumps ground. He already gave them a price of $400 as I think he had a buddy that did stump grinding as well, but was very busy at the time. I go over and talk to the people. I quote $500 as there looked like quite a few stumps. Most were "4-"6 diameter. They said no $500 was too much as they were already quoted $400. I agreed as I quickly needed to start paying for my machine. Long story short the ground was covered with quite a few leaves. There ended up being about 125 total stumps. You couldn't see a lot of them until you start going around one by one. Lots of those were saplings and such that were 2" in diameter. They ended up paying me $560 for 12 hours worth of work as there was certainly more there than what any of us thought.

The second job I went and looked at had about 38 stumps. Half were 20"+. 5 of those were 20" doubles. I quoted $400, but felt it should be like $500-$600. They had $300 in mind, but agreed to $375. The ground ended up being horrible in one spot as I kept finding rocks. Almost got P.O.'d enough to just quit and walk off. About the same time they also built a fire and was burning brush and trash. The smoke kept blowing my direction. Took 11 hours total and they paid $425.

Third job I felt better on. When I met the home owner he had about 12 stumps to grind down just a couple inches below the surface and 1 stump about 30" diameter. When I showed up with the grinder there were about 2-3 more stumps than what I recalled from memory. Oh well, all the stumps were located in the shade and along the shoreline of a lake with a nice breeze and view. Grinding was fairly easy. 2.5 hours and received $160.

Fourth job was a 15" bradford pear. This house was 2 miles from where I lived. It took about 1.5 hour total time and I received $70. 

The people from my second job passed my name and information onto their relatives. Kept talking about word of mouth etc. would keep me busy. This relative called and wanted me to remove a stump about 36" diameter. I give him a rough price of $100 considering he lived a good 25-30 miles away. He wanted me to do it quickly(same day) as they were building a wheel chair ramp. $100 was a little too much so we agree on $80 and I would just get it flush with the ground. Hooked up my trailer and down the road I go to their house. Guy calls and decides they will just use a chainsaw to save them some money. I am P.O.'d as I thought I gave them a pretty fair price for what would be considered immediate service to help them out.

Today I talked to a guy about a 19"-20" bradford pear stump over the phone. Give him a rough ballpark of $100-$125 maybe more based on his description of above ground roots. I Said I could be there later that afternoon. There were several roots all over this particular area of yard. Waaay more than I ever imagined and more than what the home owner described. I hesitated initially about doing the job because it would probably turn into a PITA. He said another local and long established stump grinding outfit quoted him $150 over the phone and yet another even higher at $200. He would agree to $150 for this stump. I unhooked and was about to unload the stump grinder when I decided not to go through with it. It is 100+ degrees out now and I am tired of every job so far turning out to always being more involved than what the home owner thinks. The front yard was also very small. The proximity of his windows, neighbors house and yard, vehicles on the street, and utility lines that run underneath some of the roots next to the street was more than I wanted to deal with. I apologized for wasting his time and suggested he use the other outfit. 

Gawd, is it the economy or what? I read all the pages that I can on this forum regarding stump grinding and pricing beforehand. Of course most of the posts do not take into consideration of the housing market and economy today. Seems tough to make anything greater than $50-$60 hr. at the most on small simple jobs. The mindset seems to average out to the high $30's/hr. or less than $10 stump for several large stumps. I don't see any money in stump grinding. I called every single tree company in the phone book and have not received a single stump yet from those phone calls. I figured that I need to set aside at least $10/hr. average for maintenance and for the stump grinder to pay for itself. $5 hr. in fuel to run the grinder. That equates to $15/hr. just to own and run a stump grinder. Add vehicle wear and fuel cost, insurance, advertising and then subtract 30% outta the profit for taxes. I used to own a machine shop and machine a lot of aftermarket auto parts. I thought manufacturing auto accessories was a poor career choice due to the overhead to income ratio. Was I ever wrong.


----------



## Hddnis

Read your whole post. Judging by our local market you are not charging nearly enough. Most of the jobs you described would go for about twice as much. 

You need to offer exceptional service and don't try to compete on price.



Mr. HE


----------



## joesawer

Never agree to a fixed price over the phone. Always tell them it is a best guess.There are simply too many variables that are too hard to cominicate.
I have never felt like a stump grinder would be a good money maker. It is just something to sell tree jobs, or tinker with part time. 
Mabe a few years ago after a hurricane some one could do good with one for a few months.


----------



## Curbside

It's funny so many people think stump grinding is a simple way to make a buck. People don't realize the cost in machines, trucks, trailers, phones, insurance, teeth and other maintenance. All they see is a guy showing up for 30 mins or an hour and getting between 75-150 dollars and think that is great money. Well I'm surprised more people don't get into appliance repair because they charge more and don't have 1/2 the overhead. 

Your pricing sounds way way low. To drive 30 miles one way for a 100.00 you may as well just buy a 300 dollar lawn more and start mowing lawns for 12-15 dollars in hour.


I know the economy has slowed down in the US but if you are doing nothing but stump grinding and have no specialty over someone else you part of the problem because the only thing you have is low pricing because you desperate. You need to have a machine that no-one else has or you need to supply tree services with your services but the only thing you have to offer at this point is low price and when you have only low price you attract the bottom feeders who will nickel dime you and try to minimize there job and try to grind (pun) you for everything you got and more.


----------



## kaiserkahn

Hddnis, I am not complaining about my not charging enough. What I am gathering from what little work I have done and by price checks over the phone is that people around here or "our local market" simply do not have any money to spend and have likely cut back due to the economy and fuel prices. A lot of them also have no idea of the amount of cost involved and pretty much don't want to hear why you have to jack the prices above what they are willing to pay. I have given several prices that would yield a higher hourly average, but have not yet had the chance to perform a higher paying grinding job. 

Joesawer, I try to give a "ballpark" price and let them know of other variables as they come to mind when talking to them. The home owner with the 19"-20" bradford pear stump talked about how the other stump grinding service seemed to be very knowledgeable about the age, size, and root system of the bradford pear. I don't doubt that a bit as the other stump grinding service has been around for a good 15-20 years that I can remember. The homeowner in this case was given pretty much a guaranteed price by this "knowledgeable" competiter and now he has no reason to believe why the price should be any higher. He was also trying to nitpick whether any sales taxes would be included in or added on top of the $150 price. How can a customer realize your exceptional quality and service when they are willing to haggle over something like sales tax. When I eventually declined to do the job I think his wife got mad at him for trying to be a little bit too cheap.

On my way to my second grinding job I passed a large tree service who is from the next town over. A crew of about 10 Mexicans were clearing out underneath some power lines. I tried to stop and give them one of my business cards in case they ever needed someone to grind stumps for them. Geez, none of them could speak or understand English. Probably had no idea that the thing on the trailer behind me was a stump grinder. Makes you feel real good trying to be a legitimate business and you still can't make it work. Knowing that only 1 in 5 are actually here legally.


----------



## kaiserkahn

Curbside, 

I agree. Too much overhead, cost, and wear and tear for what little there is to be made. I can certainly understand an existing tree service adding stump grinding to their capabilities. I pretty much have decided to quit after today. I only have 2-3 weeks time invested so not a big loss there and I shouldn't have any problem getting my money back out the grinder.


----------



## TDunk

I charge a $100 min. to grind out a stump. It's doesn't matter if it 6" or 36". After the first 40" it's $2.50 an inch after that. (40"x $2.50=$100), clean-ups extra.


----------



## Treeinnovator

read your post...
wow, i have the exact opposite opinion. i've always found stump grinding to be the best part of my business hands down. sometimes i wish that's all i did. i'll explain:

stump grinding is the ultimate set up for maximized profit. 
- you have 1 small machine and 1 person and a 5 gallon tank of gas. 
- it can fit in a garage so you have no storage costs and don't have to get a warehouse bay to operate out of. 
- it sips gas slowly so you aren't really effected by gas prices. 
- it's really easy to move around jobsites and you can work around weather patterns. 
- it's an extremely simple and reliable machine. rarely breaks down and when it does it's very simple to fix.
- it doesn't require a skilled worker where you have to pay them a high hourly rate. it's 3 levers and a bit of common sense. stump grinder workers make the same as brush draggers in my operation.
- there's nothing to take away from the jobsite. you have a little pile of mulch that you level out and you're done. no brush dragging, no dump fees, no debris issues at all. ask anybody on here... clean up and disposal is the most time consuming part of our business and usually the biggest hassle requiring large equipment and dump issues. 
- weekly gas expenses are minimal. you're in a truck with a trailer and that's it. with that set up it's no big deal to take it to a job quotation in case they say "yes". large tree companies can't afford to drag all their equipment to a jobsite 45 miles away hoping they're quote is accepted. at $4/gallon, they'd get buried with fuel costs.
- it's small work and small pay outs. alot of cash and under the table pay without the 30% tax rate. 

if you think you're having issues with customers, competitors, overhead, etc. with stump grinding, than don't go into the tree business on a larger scale. the problems and headaches with customers, workers, and machinery are multiplied tenfold. stump grinding is so easy.

personally i think you're doing excellent. look at all the business you got in a short amount of time without even advertising. the 2nd job you mentioned seemed really low. but if it's just you, your machine, and under the table cash payments... it's not so bad. when you have more work than you can handle, that's when you get fussy about low prices.

one thing to say about those jobs you mention... 
customers ALWAYS say a stump is smaller than it really is over the phone. and sometimes they are speaking of a stump that is cut 2 ft above the ground when cut at ground level it's 2x or 3x as big. never quote over the phone. use an upside down 5 gallon paint bucket as a reference with an attached price to give your customer price quote. bring the bucket to the jobsite and when you compare it they will not argue over the price change (increase).

please tell us... how much did you paid for the grinder? and what year is it...how many hours?


----------



## Treeinnovator

Curbside said:


> It's funny so many people think stump grinding is a simple way to make a buck. People don't realize the cost in machines, trucks, trailers, phones, insurance, teeth and other maintenance. All they see is a guy showing up for 30 mins or an hour and getting between 75-150 dollars and think that is great money. Well I'm surprised more people don't get into appliance repair because they charge more and don't have 1/2 the overhead. .



sometimes i get the feeling people think stump grinders are price gouging. that's when i mention that the smallest model 252 will set you back $12K. and that's the reason our prices are the way they are. it seems to work if they understand that little yellow machine costs more than their car out front. 

i bet appliance repairmen get beat down alot on prices. there's a handyman living on every neighborhood block.


----------



## mckeetree

I hate stump grinding. I was talking with another owner the other day and stump grinding came up. When I said there hasn't been any money in stump grinding in 25 years he laughed and said he didn't know there was ever any money in it. Firewood is another deal people get in thinking they are going to make a living. You could do pretty good with firewood 30 years ago but except for a few little micro markets nobody wants to pay what it is worth.


----------



## ropensaddle

mckeetree said:


> I hate stump grinding. I was talking with another owner the other day and stump grinding came up. When I said there hasn't been any money in stump grinding in 25 years he laughed and said he didn't know there was ever any money in it. Firewood is another deal people get in thinking they are going to make a living. You could do pretty good with firewood 30 years ago but except for a few little micro markets nobody wants to pay what it is worth.



I mostly agree stumpin stinks because too many get into it
thinking they can do ok by charging less than the tree guys.
I sold my little grinder and bought a large tow behind for the
only jobs I am interested in are big one, a hundred or more at
a time! I have ticked off price shoppers calling and asking How
much, I only have one 10 inch stump cut low etc. When I say
125.00 minimum they go to back peddling and acting like I am
trying to skin them and I say, teeth cost me 400. per set 5 dollar
per gallon diesel and you think I am high, my price is now 300.00


----------



## Treeinnovator

ropensaddle said:


> I mostly agree stumpin stinks because too many get into it
> thinking they can do ok by charging less than the tree guys.
> I sold my little grinder and bought a large tow behind for the
> only jobs I am interested in are big one, a hundred or more at
> a time! I have ticked off price shoppers calling and asking How
> much, I only have one 10 inch stump cut low etc. When I say
> 125.00 minimum they go to back peddling and acting like I am
> trying to skin them and I say, teeth cost me 400. per set 5 dollar
> per gallon diesel and you think I am high, my price is now 300.00



maybe stump grinding only makes sense on the smaller 252 grinders which are easy to pull around w/ a small pick up. the big grinders would set you back 3x to 5x the money plus you need a 4x4 gas guzzler to tow it. of course in some areas of the country you'll ge laughed out of town with a 252.
those big ones sure do pay off in a disaster area.


----------



## ropensaddle

Treeinnovator said:


> maybe stump grinding only makes sense on the smaller 252 grinders which are easy to pull around w/ a small pick up. the big grinders would set you back 3x to 5x the money plus you need a 4x4 gas guzzler to tow it. of course in some areas of the country you'll ge laughed out of town with a 252.
> those big ones sure do pay off in a disaster area.



I guessed you missed the part where I sold the little grinder 252.
I will never go back, time is money and if I am spending too much
of it at the stump it costs me lots of dollars in tree work. I now
grind a stump in five minutes that would take the 252 two hours
get the Idea?


----------



## Curbside

Treeinnovator said:


> read your post...
> wow, i have the exact opposite opinion. i've always found stump grinding to be the best part of my business hands down. sometimes i wish that's all i did. i'll explain:
> 
> stump grinding is the ultimate set up for maximized profit.
> - you have 1 small machine and 1 person and a 5 gallon tank of gas.
> - it can fit in a garage so you have no storage costs and don't have to get a warehouse bay to operate out of.
> - it sips gas slowly so you aren't really effected by gas prices.
> - it's really easy to move around jobsites and you can work around weather patterns.
> - it's an extremely simple and reliable machine. rarely breaks down and when it does it's very simple to fix.
> - it doesn't require a skilled worker where you have to pay them a high hourly rate. it's 3 levers and a bit of common sense. stump grinder workers make the same as brush draggers in my operation.
> - there's nothing to take away from the jobsite. you have a little pile of mulch that you level out and you're done. no brush dragging, no dump fees, no debris issues at all. ask anybody on here... clean up and disposal is the most time consuming part of our business and usually the biggest hassle requiring large equipment and dump issues.
> - weekly gas expenses are minimal. you're in a truck with a trailer and that's it. with that set up it's no big deal to take it to a job quotation in case they say "yes". large tree companies can't afford to drag all their equipment to a jobsite 45 miles away hoping they're quote is accepted. at $4/gallon, they'd get buried with fuel costs.
> - it's small work and small pay outs. alot of cash and under the table pay without the 30% tax rate.
> 
> if you think you're having issues with customers, competitors, overhead, etc. with stump grinding, than don't go into the tree business on a larger scale. the problems and headaches with customers, workers, and machinery are multiplied tenfold. stump grinding is so easy.
> 
> personally i think you're doing excellent. look at all the business you got in a short amount of time without even advertising. the 2nd job you mentioned seemed really low. but if it's just you, your machine, and under the table cash payments... it's not so bad. when you have more work than you can handle, that's when you get fussy about low prices.
> 
> one thing to say about those jobs you mention...
> customers ALWAYS say a stump is smaller than it really is over the phone. and sometimes they are speaking of a stump that is cut 2 ft above the ground when cut at ground level it's 2x or 3x as big. never quote over the phone. use an upside down 5 gallon paint bucket as a reference with an attached price to give your customer price quote. bring the bucket to the jobsite and when you compare it they will not argue over the price change (increase).
> 
> please tell us... how much did you paid for the grinder? and what year is it...how many hours?




Tree Inovator I agree that Stump Grinding can be profitable but not for everyone or everywhere. To just go buy a small grinder and hope you can make a living is just a pipe dream. You have to offer something different then all the others. Example being specialty machines for your area. Maybe a large self propelled unit if noone else has one. Also you may want to add stump grinding to list of several other things that you do for example running a bobcat or some other kind of work that will keep you busy as you break into the market.

If you think Kaiser Khan is doing good run the figures. By his own figues he's done three jobs for a total of $1055.00 To do those three jobs he spent 25.5 hours of working time so he made 42.00 per hour. But he does not factor in his travel time and his other jobs that did not end up going at the last minute when he was already there or almost there.

Now if he pays himself a wage of 15.00 per hour that will cost him 20.00 after labor fees (taxes compensation etc) that leaves him 22.00 per hour. Out of that he needs to pay for fuel say 5.00 dollars per hour that leaves 17.00 per hour then you have the routine matenance of the machine like grease, oil, repairs, belts teeth probaly works out to about 5.00 per hour. that brings you down to 12 dollars per hour. So with that 12 dollars per hour left you need to pay for your truck and fuel. Your vehicle insurance and business liability insurance, your trailer, your machine, your cell phone and advertising. Personally I think he's in a lost position just on the working hours now if you factor his estimating and travel expenses that aren't included in the 25.5 hours he's way under.

It sounds like that area is not a good stump grinding area maybe just to many people in that area.

Tree Inovator if you are doing stump grinding for a living I think if you run your figures you are making more than 42.00 per hour if its your sole business. Unless you are happy taking all the risks for 15.00 per hour.


----------



## Cbrexdogg

The company I work for has set minimum rates. We never give quotes over the phone and very rarely give our rates over the phone, because we will adjust rates based on difficulty/danger etc. We always try to actually look at a job before we send someone to do it. If the job is too far away,(30 miles or whatever) I'll usually tell the customer plan on spending x amount of dollars just to get us there. If they balk at that then you know it's a waste of time. 

Kaiser it kinda sounds like you are just doing these jobs to work. That is just bad buisness. You should set down and figure out what you need to make to make a profit and stick to those rates. Strive to do the best job, not the cheapest.


----------



## ropensaddle

We are both from the same state and the competition is friggin
fierce and cheapskates many so I understand his plight. 
Factor in it is all friggin rock and then you have it, high 
maintenance low ballers etc. You will not compete with
a small machine you need to be able to grind 70 large
stumps per day to come out. My best day was 127 mixed
some 50 inch some five but that was 1270.00 and 100.00
in fuel 1/2 set of teeth= 200.00 and you start to understand
my thinking.


----------



## Husky137

Why do people put so much thought into a business venture AFTER the fact as opposed to before? Seems more time was spent doing the paperwork to buy the grinder than anything else.

The only stump guys I have seen that are profitable, are so because it is offered as an additional service as part of a tree service or they do it on the side and don't need to deal with competing with the lowballing hacks.

Giving any type of quote without seeing the job is just bad business technique.


----------



## kaiserkahn

My original thinking was to find a small piece of equipment that I could run by myself without having to have employees and also not to have to work for someone else right off hand. Truck, trailer, and grinder. Thats it, sounded simple. I just recently closed up a machine shop where at one point I had 6 employees working 2 shifts and 5-6 CNC machines. Lots of headache and overhead. What was nice though about machining parts was that the jobs were larger and could last for several weeks at a time and keep several people busy. Grinding a stump for an hour or two and then off to find a new customer just to make gas money with sux. At least when removing a tree the job itself is larger and more $$ is made with the same customer in the same location. 

I originally thought about trying to get hooked up with a couple of tree services. That just has not happened. I also considered all the tornado damage that has happened in the last several months in our state. I guess times are tough and everyone is doing all their own work. I have a rough idea on how much I have to make per hour average to cover all cost. When I gave some of the prices that I did to customers, I did so knowing a little bit about their personal situation and feeling them out a little bit for what kind of price they already had in mind. In each case if I quoted a higher price then I probably wouldn't have ground any stumps at all. My original plan was to stick with X amount of dollars per hour average to cover all cost and profit. Quote jobs as such and simply do not do any of them if they go below the hourly rate. When you are starting out and have nothing at all to do then it is difficult to turn down work. 

Curbside pretty much stated the same conclusion that I have come to after doing only a few jobs. I am better off to work for someone else than to stay in a losing position on my own. I just about quit shortly after starting my 2nd grinding job for all the rocks. The payment for the job would go to cover wear and tear on the teeth. This customer ended up knowing some of my family so I stuck to it and finished what I had started. I don't like to keep people hanging. My 3rd and 4th jobs were located within 5 minutes of my house so I continued on hoping things would improve. I never intended to get into stump grinding with the line of thought of under cutting everyone else. I have worked too cheap in the past on other things and it is not worth it. 

I'm inclined to agree with Ropensaddle that this state is full of cheapskates.


----------



## ropensaddle

kaiserkahn said:


> My original thinking was to find a small piece of equipment that I could run by myself without having to have employees and also not to have to work for someone else right off hand. Truck, trailer, and grinder. Thats it, sounded simple. I just recently closed up a machine shop where at one point I had 6 employees working 2 shifts and 5-6 CNC machines. Lots of headache and overhead. What was nice though about machining parts was that the jobs were larger and could last for several weeks at a time and keep several people busy. Grinding a stump for an hour or two and then off to find a new customer just to make gas money with sux. At least when removing a tree the job itself is larger and more $$ is made with the same customer in the same location.
> 
> I originally thought about trying to get hooked up with a couple of tree services. That just has not happened. I also considered all the tornado damage that has happened in the last several months in our state. I guess times are tough and everyone is doing all their own work. I have a rough idea on how much I have to make per hour average to cover all cost. When I gave some of the prices that I did to customers, I did so knowing a little bit about their personal situation and feeling them out a little bit for what kind of price they already had in mind. In each case if I quoted a higher price then I probably wouldn't have ground any stumps at all. My original plan was to stick with X amount of dollars per hour average to cover all cost and profit. Quote jobs as such and simply do not do any of them if they go below the hourly rate. When you are starting out and have nothing at all to do then it is difficult to turn down work.
> 
> Curbside pretty much stated the same conclusion that I have come to after doing only a few jobs. I am better off to work for someone else than to stay in a losing position on my own. I just about quit shortly after starting my 2nd grinding job for all the rocks. The payment for the job would go to cover wear and tear on the teeth. This customer ended up knowing some of my family so I stuck to it and finished what I had started. I don't like to keep people hanging. My 3rd and 4th jobs were located within 5 minutes of my house so I continued on hoping things would improve. I never intended to get into stump grinding with the line of thought of under cutting everyone else. I have worked too cheap in the past on other things and it is not worth it.
> 
> I'm inclined to agree with Ropensaddle that this state is full of cheapskates.



I should have clarified many cheapskates it takes much time to weed out
the selfish customers from the good I am on year five and still weeding
but the pasture is getting greener I would not consider a stump only
biz in our state you would definately not profit unless you had big contracts.


----------



## kaiserkahn

> I should have clarified many cheapskates it takes much time to weed out
> the selfish customers from the good I am on year five and still weeding
> but the pasture is getting greener I would not consider a stump only
> biz in our state you would definately not profit unless you had big contracts.



When I started out 7 years ago doing machine work I quickly realized that I could not make it while doing work for other companies. I soon came up with my own product line that was automotive related which expanded to 35-40 items over 3-4 years. All parts were similar in features which greatly helped on production. I sold to a handful of wholesalers and retailers. My largest customer quite often ordered enough parts to keep us busy for 2-3 weeks at a time. A couple times that would be 2 months of work piled on top of everybody else. Without having a few nice contracts and small orders to fill in the cracks I would have never made it as far as I had. Some customers weren't worth the time of stuffing a UPS box so I would direct them to order from one of my larger wholesalers. They didn't like that, but the small orders just didn't generate profit. Basically like grinding one stump for some cheapskate. We did a project with our largest customer. I basically lost 300 hours of prototype and machine time as the project got canceled. Also played games with their accounts payable a few times. This was 1 year ago and the sign of the end for me. Being automotive related I also predicted gas going up a good $.75 would kill my market. It sure did.


----------



## ropensaddle

kaiserkahn said:


> When I started out 7 years ago doing machine work I quickly realized that I could not make it while doing work for other companies. I soon came up with my own product line that was automotive related which expanded to 35-40 items over 3-4 years. All parts were similar in features which greatly helped on production. I sold to a handful of wholesalers and retailers. My largest customer quite often ordered enough parts to keep us busy for 2-3 weeks at a time. A couple times that would be 2 months of work piled on top of everybody else. Without having a few nice contracts and small orders to fill in the cracks I would have never made it as far as I had. Some customers weren't worth the time of stuffing a UPS box so I would direct them to order from one of my larger wholesalers. They didn't like that, but the small orders just didn't generate profit. Basically like grinding one stump for some cheapskate. We did a project with our largest customer. I basically lost 300 hours of prototype and machine time as the project got canceled. Also played games with their accounts payable a few times. This was 1 year ago and the sign of the end for me. Being automotive related I also predicted gas going up a good $.75 would kill my market. It sure did.



This is not the best time for small biz for sure I have not profited greatly
and may be wasting my time but am in too deep to quit and pay for
the rest of my life. I must make it work and even if it means working 
and not profiting much I still call the shots and don't have to put up
with some privileged young corporate punk calling the shots.


----------



## masterarbor

Startin' out is always hard. Hang in there and try to learn your lessons once. When you get a feel for how much stuff costs, you'll feel more confident getting what they're worth. Find a tree service that doesn't do stumps and try to get their account. Rope n' saddle is right though, big machines are what you're bidding against and it's hard to be competitive when it takes you 1 1/2 hours to do a 15" pear stump. Good luck!


----------



## Treeinnovator

when you approached the other tree businesses, did you offer them a % for each customer referral. sometimes that will make them more motivated to refer you instead of telling the customer to goto the yellow pages.


----------



## OLD CHIPMONK

I agree with Rope , when your buried , you half to work or starve! You mentioned stump teeth as an expense ! Let's look at bearings, belts, hydraulic hoses, gearboxes, bent cutter wheels, pockets, allen bolts, tires, batteries, fuel, oil filters, hydraulic filters, hydraulic oil ,anti-freeze & don't forget about engine breakdowns or repairs ! Also clutch assemblies. I agree with everyone ! Prices are just too low !!! The OLD CHIP spoke up . Oh, don't forget about a good truck to get that stumper from job to job !!! Along with liability insurance & workers comp. ! Old School thinking is still out there !


----------



## juststumps

Fourth job was a 15" bradford pear. This house was 2 miles from where I lived. It took about 1.5 hour total time and I received $70. 

why did it take you 1.5 hours to grind out a 15" stump,, with a 352?????
a 15" pear stump, usually will take me longer to get the thing out of the trailer , than the grinding time.....

$100 minimum , if they don't bite ,, WALK !!!! the crap about "SO and SO " , doing it for less ,, my response is ,, WELL CALL THEM ,, YOU GOT YOURSELF A BARGIN !!!! JMHO


----------



## Treeinnovator

juststumps said:


> Fourth job was a 15" bradford pear. This house was 2 miles from where I lived. It took about 1.5 hour total time and I received $70.
> 
> why did it take you 1.5 hours to grind out a 15" stump,, with a 352?????
> a 15" pear stump, usually will take me longer to get the thing out of the trailer , than the grinding time.....
> 
> $100 minimum , if they don't bite ,, WALK !!!! the crap about "SO and SO " , doing it for less ,, my response is ,, WELL CALL THEM ,, YOU GOT YOURSELF A BARGIN !!!! JMHO



das right. tell them to call those other tree hacks. i've done that and called their bluff. they usually lie to try and get a lower price.


----------



## a_lopa

The tow vehicle,and trailer costs are rarely factored as well.Think of the time in digging and hauling rather than what the next guy will do them for.


----------



## davidshumaker

If you see a market for your service, stick with it. The first year or two you will make mistakes in pricing and learn as you go. Learn from you mistakes. Customers don't know your costs and don't really seem to care. I'm in lawn care and when I first started out, I more or less had to take what I could get. After a couple years when you build your business, you can weed out the people that want work done below your costs. In any start up business, it's necessary to have working capital and living expenses saved for your first years.


----------



## echoman8

*Stump Sheeesh!*

For what it is worth:

I live in west Texas near Odessa/Midland. The rental for a stump grinder is $100 per day. Local arborists charge $5 per inch diameter (30" stump = $150) plus the rental fee. With this in mind, I price my quotes near but less than my competition.

I have my own grinder (knowing my competition has to rent) and this allows me to bid at a rate that helps my customer and maximizes my return.

Have you checked out your competition very well? How about the rental companies. Have you checked the rate of rental? If you have viable competition, how reliable is he/she/them? 

Seems like a minimum per stump (small ones) and $6 per inch diameter (or more) on the larger stumps should allow a good return.

Just some thoughts. Hope they help.

de


----------



## BC WetCoast

ropensaddle said:


> We are both from the same state and the competition is friggin
> fierce and cheapskates many so I understand his plight.
> Factor in it is all friggin rock and then you have it, high
> maintenance low ballers etc. You will not compete with
> a small machine you need to be able to grind 70 large
> stumps per day to come out. My best day was 127 mixed
> some 50 inch some five but that was 1270.00 and 100.00
> in fuel 1/2 set of teeth= 200.00 and you start to understand
> my thinking.



Just curious, what kind of properties would have 70 stumps on them? I work in a large metro area, where the largest stump clusters would be the golf courses and even there I get 20 max.


----------



## gr8scott72

BC WetCoast said:


> Just curious, what kind of properties would have 70 stumps on them? I work in a large metro area, where the largest stump clusters would be the golf courses and even there I get 20 max.



Around here, that many stumps comes from a home owner that had some land cleared. I ground for 7 straight hours for one such home owner. He had stumps spread ALL over his property.

I'm working on two other bids right now, one is about 100 stumps and the other is 60-70. Both are big, private properties kind of on the outskirts of town.

I just did a job today in a small residential place and it was over 30 stumps. In all, that job took about 4 hours.


----------



## BC WetCoast

juststumps said:


> Fourth job was a 15" bradford pear. This house was 2 miles from where I lived. It took about 1.5 hour total time and I received $70.
> 
> why did it take you 1.5 hours to grind out a 15" stump,, with a 352?????
> a 15" pear stump, usually will take me longer to get the thing out of the trailer , than the grinding time.....
> 
> $100 minimum , if they don't bite ,, WALK !!!! the crap about "SO and SO " , doing it for less ,, my response is ,, WELL CALL THEM ,, YOU GOT YOURSELF A BARGIN !!!! JMHO



I agree, 1.5 hrs to grind a 15" stump with a 352??? A 352 isn't as powerful as Rope's machine, but still should only take 5-10 min of actual grinding. Sounds like he needs to learn how to grind (and sharpen teeth). 

Assuming it's easy access, 1/2 hour from the time pull up to the curb, to the time I leave. Including raking it neat, blowing the grass and talking to the customer. Of course, the price had already been agreed to by the sales rep. As an employee, all I do is grind.


----------



## ropensaddle

BC WetCoast said:


> Just curious, what kind of properties would have 70 stumps on them? I work in a large metro area, where the largest stump clusters would be the golf courses and even there I get 20 max.



Yes Golf courses I grind for 8 of them and they usually 
have fifty each minimum. I also grind in rural areas where loggers
have cut in peoples yards one such customer had 95 and another 57!
I am working on getting a contract with power and water treatment and
municipalities to do theirs! The bids are competitive to say the least and
I would not recommend bidding unless you have 60+ hp.


----------



## OLD CHIPMONK

Rope- Old Buddy, it looks like you've found a new niche ! Sell the tree equipment & branch out with the Stump Grinder. Looks as though you need to buy a 2 nd. machine & let your wife run it. You two would make a good grinding team. The sky would be the limit on potential earnings. Just a thought!


----------



## ropensaddle

OLD CHIPMONK said:


> Rope- Old Buddy, it looks like you've found a new niche ! Sell the tree equipment & branch out with the Stump Grinder. Looks as though you need to buy a 2 nd. machine & let your wife run it. You two would make a good grinding team. The sky would be the limit on potential earnings. Just a thought!



Nah, hell I like misery, I would be lost if I did not have some impossible
nasty tree to do every now and then
Even though stumpin is easy it gets old after a few days straight and
I need a break and fresh air without dust flying but then again I am
done with these contracts got thirty to do soon time to go sell some mo!


----------



## gr8scott72

I ended up doing 5 jobs today for a total of $740! (Started the day with only 2 jobs lined up.) I was gone for 10 hours but that included the hour long stop at the tire store for them to put high pressure valve stems on the trailer tires I just bought from them. One was already flat. (Had to change it this morning too.)

I actually only put 3 hours exactly on "Babe" so that averages out to over $246 per machine hour.

I turned a $100 stump into $250 by grinding the wrong stump. lol I was given directions that weren't so clear and I was more than half way done with an almost 40 inch diameter oak stump when the customer comes out and says that is not his stump. I ended up finishing that stump and then did the one I was supposed to do. Then I asked the owner of the stump, humbly, for some money and even offered to do one other that was out there for even less ($100) than I had quoted the original stump ($150). She said that if I'd do the other stump she'd go ahead and give me the $150. The stump I was supposed to do wasn't as big and I got $100 from the original customer.

I've been VERY busy this week with a good pile of cash to show for it. Have one job lined up for tomorrow and will try to turn it into several jobs. Got this job from one of those signs that treemandan hates so much.

Now if I could just do something about my truck drinking up all my profit. It drained one whole 20 gal tank TODAY!! 7.5 MPG stinks. Anyone want to buy a F-250 with the 460 V8?


----------



## OLD CHIPMONK

Thanks for your honesty Rope ! It just seemed like that was the direction you were headin. I personally would like to be totally retired but my investments took a nosedive. The economy is crazy . Just keep on working for the time being.


----------



## ropensaddle

OLD CHIPMONK said:


> Thanks for your honesty Rope ! It just seemed like that was the direction you were headin. I personally would like to be totally retired but my investments took a nosedive. The economy is crazy . Just keep on working for the time being.


I can only hope for a retirement, the economy has really made me grateful 
to have work as, sometimes I don't! Feast or famine if ya know what I mean?


----------



## Treemann

*Stump Biz*

I have had really good time with my Stump biz. I have been doing it for 15 years and doing fine. You need a good diesel 50 horse self propelled and you can bid over the phone. Have a minimum $85 for the first stump and then charge 15 to 50 for the next ones. I spend more time driving to the job than running the machine. I average about 1000 per week on the books. I keep my teeth sharp and I don't sweat it when I charge too little. The longer you stay in business, the more the people and companies come to you. You can't judge the biz in the first year or two. Just do a good job and the client list will grow.


----------



## TimberMcPherson

You mainly need only 1 thing to make good money from stump grinding (or treework or anything for that matter)

The right quality and quantity of clients


You can have a super slick set up with all the gear and do a wonderful job but if the clients arent wanting to pay for it, your toast.

I think some guys on this site dont relise how good they have it where they are, and some are struggling to make it worth while, and some are just struggling to make it at all.

Im fortunate where I am, but I need to get a high % of quotes to keep busy, and dispite this I manage to do quite well........so far.


----------



## tree MDS

How much for the 352 Kahn? I dont have a grinder yet and I pay a friend to do mine with his 352, then I cleanup with the tractor and topsoil and seed. I just did one of my full service jobs, complete with replacement planting (18' Sugar Maple) a few weeks back - I like playing in the dirt from time to time. Its been my expierience that the actual tree service that takes down the tree can charge a little more for the stumps - and then double that for cleanup+ topsoil and seed, wich aint so bad if I already have the tractor there to load wood etc. Sure makes a nice job I gotta say. I can see where I could pay for a good used 352 in a few years possibly. Stump grinding is like firewood, ya aint gonna get rich off it for sure. And if yer offering stump grinding as your only service there are probably alot of morons that do it at night after thier day job. Another thought: my friend takes his grinder with him to the estimate alot of times and does the stump right then if the people agree to it, wich they usually do sinse they get all worked up seeing the machine right there. They might be less inclined to keep looking for quotes and just have it done that way too.


----------



## Treemann

*Your are right*

Yes, that's the way it works. Do a good job, don't complain, keep your equipment up, and don't haggle with the clients. I used to haggle and I found myself being angry with my customers. I have a really good machine and sometimes I'll give them a free stump if there are a lot of them. It make them feel better and it only takes a min. to do. I think if you have a low powered machine is when you get frustrated. I used to have a 24 horse machine and had to do big maple stumps. It would take forever and I felt like crying at the end of the day!! I had a friend work for me awhile and he actually broke down and cryed when he came in!! I re-tip my own teeth and that saves so much money and keeps me sharp all the time. If you know anybody that needs their teeth re-tipped let me know. This business requires patience too. If you are in a hurry to make that buck, you can make yourself unhappy. I like it because "it's almost like stealing" The overhead is really low compared to doing trees. I can keep about 75% of the money compared to trees, which is only around 25%. I have a small radio in my head phones and I relax and do my job. Speaking of that I gotta go to work. Keep the Faith!!


TimberMcPherson said:


> You mainly need only 1 thing to make good money from stump grinding (or treework or anything for that matter)
> 
> The right quality and quantity of clients
> 
> 
> You can have a super slick set up with all the gear and do a wonderful job but if the clients arent wanting to pay for it, your toast.
> 
> I think some guys on this site dont relise how good they have it where they are, and some are struggling to make it worth while, and some are just struggling to make it at all.
> 
> Im fortunate where I am, but I need to get a high % of quotes to keep busy, and dispite this I manage to do quite well........so far.


----------



## treemandan

Man does not live on stump grinding alone.


----------



## echoman8

*Shangrila or something like it*



treemandan said:


> Man does not live on stump grinding alone.



Hi,

I picked up on this thread and saw that it came from many parts of the world.

I know that when I finish a stump with my little grinder, I feel accomplishment.

Thanks for your posts and hope every highway has a stump in it (ha!)

echoman


----------



## a_lopa

Sometimes there too big to grind!!!


----------



## Jlarnard

(screech........)
I believe a stump grinding business can work. But selling a stump grinding machine with a man running it, is not going to make much money.
You need at least 2 stumpers, one for easy to get to work, and a backyard type. Backyard stump jobs pay higher than something you can just back up to. You'll learn how to bid jobs better with time.
One thing I noticed is a lack of communication between the company to customer. What I always used was grid paper, now the grid is built right into my contract. I would take the time to draw a rough diagram of the work to be performed, and unless you are an artist the grid helps a lot.

If a customer tells me "a guy said he'd grind it for $xx.) I look them in the eye and say, "why is it still there then?" As I point in the direction of job.
Best wishes for your new business,


----------



## arhillbilly

neighbor has tree service/ stump grinding bussiness advertises 1.00 a inch i can't see much money in that he has a large veemer grinder


----------



## Treemann

*Dollar an Inch?*

Wow, I wish he were here in Denver. I would let him do all my stumps and collect the profit!!! I can't for the life of me understand a "per inch" price. I tried that a long time ago and could never figure out where you start the measure. It caused a lot of misunderstanding between my clients and me. If the inch thing worked then I would be charging eight to fifteen dollars per inch. My rate system is based on value. My stump grinder is too fast to base it on time. I have a trip rate of 85 then it goes up depending on the quanity of stumps and size. How long would it take a guy to dig it out? A weekend? Then it's worth 250 to 300. People are glad to pay


----------



## arhillbilly

i know how much it cost to run my ford 1 ton diesil, so i haven't figured out how he makes any money at it oh well, not my problem, but it's like the firewood bus. theres always someone waaay cheaper than me


----------



## jg55056

Stump grinding is great........ if you have a big grinder. I started with a super jr (25hp) and sold it with-in a month of purchasing it. The time it takes to grind a stump just wasn't worth it. I then purchased an RG50 which was able to make relatively good money; I still wasn't satisfied with the productivity though. I kept that machine for 2 years and this spring I traded it off and bought an new RG90 and yes I love it. It has cut my labor down tremendously. Stumps are all about efficiency and quite frankly you'll never be able to grind big stumps and process big jobs efficiently with a grinder of that size. I ground a cottonwood the other day; roots measuring 10ft x 10ft, the wood measured 72". I was in and out in 1.5 hrs. I charged $300.00 (cheap). That same stump would have took over twice as long probably 4 hrs with the RG50 and probably a day, at least, with a little grinder. 
With a large grinder, 70hp and up, dull teeth don't devastate you as they do on a smaller machine. I grind in rocky soil quite a bit and prefer slightly dull teeth because they don't shatter as easy when you hit something. Having said all this; it is going to take time and patience to build a reputation for your grinding business. The 352 isn't a bad grinder but I don't think I would rely on it as your sole source of income. Small grinders just aren't very productive. They'll do the job but that's about it. Also have your clients sign a contract with a damage clause in it. I have a clause that states an additional $20-$150 may be charged if hidden hazards; rocks, concrete, etc. are encountered. Put that in small print of course


----------



## TimberMcPherson

jg55056 said:


> Stump grinding is great........ if you have a big grinder. I started with a super jr (25hp) and sold it with-in a month of purchasing it. The time it takes to grind a stump just wasn't worth it. I then purchased an RG50 which was able to make relatively good money; I still wasn't satisfied with the productivity though. I kept that machine for 2 years and this spring I traded it off and bought an new RG90 and yes I love it. It has cut my labor down tremendously. Stumps are all about efficiency and quite frankly you'll never be able to grind big stumps and process big jobs efficiently with a grinder of that size. I ground a cottonwood the other day; roots measuring 10ft x 10ft, the wood measured 72". I was in and out in 1.5 hrs. I charged $300.00 (cheap). That same stump would have took over twice as long probably 4 hrs with the RG50 and probably a day, at least, with a little grinder.
> With a large grinder, 70hp and up, dull teeth don't devastate you as they do on a smaller machine. I grind in rocky soil quite a bit and prefer slightly dull teeth because they don't shatter as easy when you hit something. Having said all this; it is going to take time and patience to build a reputation for your grinding business. The 352 isn't a bad grinder but I don't think I would rely on it as your sole source of income. Small grinders just aren't very productive. They'll do the job but that's about it. Also have your clients sign a contract with a damage clause in it. I have a clause that states an additional $20-$150 may be charged if hidden hazards; rocks, concrete, etc. are encountered. Put that in small print of course





Its all contextual, where you are a big grinder works, for some others it would be a noose.
The last stump job I did on monday involved over 50 stairs and about 30 yards of narrow garden path and the stumps were on steep ground. Client was happy to pay by the hour (which is how I do 95% of my stumps) and I still have the mark from carrying it on my shoulder.
Youd just laugh at the fact my stumpmaster only has a chainsaw engine is carried on the drawbar of my 6 inch chipper. But I can think of only a few stumps in the last 3 years that would have been reachable by your awesome machine. It took me 40 stumps to pay off my little toy. But in the context of my work set up and working environment, its an ideal toy.

Horses for courses.


----------



## Treemann

*dull teeth*



TimberMcPherson said:


> Its all contextual, where you are a big grinder works, for some others it would be a noose.
> The last stump job I did on monday involved over 50 stairs and about 30 yards of narrow garden path and the stumps were on steep ground. Client was happy to pay by the hour (which is how I do 95% of my stumps) and I still have the mark from carrying it on my shoulder.
> Youd just laugh at the fact my stumpmaster only has a chainsaw engine is carried on the drawbar of my 6 inch chipper. But I can think of only a few stumps in the last 3 years that would have been reachable by your awesome machine. It took me 40 stumps to pay off my little toy. But in the context of my work set up and working environment, its an ideal toy.
> 
> Horses for courses.


 Yes, all machine sizes have their place. I used to have an original Kan-Du machine that was 24 hp and I could adjust it to go through your front door. Dull teeth on any machine put a lot of side stress on the bearings and they cost 250 to 300 each on good big machines. That's for the parts. I've see those chain saw grinders pretty cool in the right situation.


----------



## BC WetCoast

jg55056 said:


> Stump grinding is great........ if you have a big grinder. I started with a super jr (25hp) and sold it with-in a month of purchasing it. The time it takes to grind a stump just wasn't worth it. I then purchased an RG50 which was able to make relatively good money; I still wasn't satisfied with the productivity though. I kept that machine for 2 years and this spring I traded it off and bought an new RG90 and yes I love it. It has cut my labor down tremendously. Stumps are all about efficiency and quite frankly you'll never be able to grind big stumps and process big jobs efficiently with a grinder of that size. I ground a cottonwood the other day; roots measuring 10ft x 10ft, the wood measured 72". I was in and out in 1.5 hrs. I charged $300.00 (cheap). That same stump would have took over twice as long probably 4 hrs with the RG50 and probably a day, at least, with a little grinder.
> With a large grinder, 70hp and up, dull teeth don't devastate you as they do on a smaller machine. I grind in rocky soil quite a bit and prefer slightly dull teeth because they don't shatter as easy when you hit something. Having said all this; it is going to take time and patience to build a reputation for your grinding business. The 352 isn't a bad grinder but I don't think I would rely on it as your sole source of income. Small grinders just aren't very productive. They'll do the job but that's about it. Also have your clients sign a contract with a damage clause in it. I have a clause that states an additional $20-$150 may be charged if hidden hazards; rocks, concrete, etc. are encountered. Put that in small print of course



I'm glad it works for you, however in my situation I would go broke. I have to be able to go through a 36" gate and maneuver around tight spots. The number of very large stumps I get like that are small, maybe 10% and jobs are only one or two stumps in a yard. So more time is spent driving and cleaning up than actually grinding. Judging by the time you spent on the cottonwood, you don't do cleanup. 

Like any business you need to do some market research to see what size machine will optimize your earning potential. I only know my market, but except in hurricane areas, I haven't read on this site about areas where grinders are fully booked weeks at a time. So if your machine plows through a stump in half the time, it just means you will be sitting waiting for the next job sooner (not that that's a bad thing). Just a question on whether you need that size and productivity in the long run.


----------



## jg55056

BC WetCoast said:


> I'm glad it works for you, however in my situation I would go broke. I have to be able to go through a 36" gate and maneuver around tight spots.



You do realize that an RG 90 fits through a 36" gate, and that the overall size is only a bit larger than that of a 352. Saving time=making more money. Grinding all your stumps in one day leaves you more time to process other jobs. Think about it, with a large grinder you can take 3 days of stumps (with a small machine) and have them done in 1/3 of the time......I do admit that the push-around type and others are very handy for certain sites. (correct, no clean up on the cottonwood)


----------



## ropensaddle

jg55056 said:


> You do realize that an RG 90 fits through a 36" gate, and that the overall size is only a bit larger than that of a 352. Saving time=making more money. Grinding all your stumps in one day leaves you more time to process other jobs. Think about it, with a large grinder you can take 3 days of stumps (with a small machine) and have them done in 1/3 of the time......I do admit that the push-around type and others are very handy for certain sites. (correct, no clean up on the cottonwood)



+1 I can't stand wimpy machines I got a tow behind and it is much better than the 252 I had before. It is only 60 turbo horse power but it gets it done fast. I do a lot of golf courses and the tow behind smokes a walk behind in multi stump spread out my best day was 128 stumps 10"to 45"diameter, of coarse that was fourteen hours of skit it


----------



## juststumps

jg55056 said:


> You do realize that an RG 90 fits through a 36" gate, and that the overall size is only a bit larger than that of a 352. Saving time=making more money. Grinding all your stumps in one day leaves you more time to process other jobs. Think about it, with a large grinder you can take 3 days of stumps (with a small machine) and have them done in 1/3 of the time......I do admit that the push-around type and others are very handy for certain sites. (correct, no clean up on the cottonwood)



i was wondering , for the extra 20K dollars, how did RAYCO get the RG90 thru a gate in 1/3 of the time ???


----------



## ropensaddle

juststumps said:


> i was wondering , for the extra 20K dollars, how did RAYCO get the RG90 thru a gate in 1/3 of the time ???



He means done with the stumps in one third the time a small unit will.
It all boils down to time and if you have plenty of it go small if your
finding two to three hours on a big stump is costing you tree work
then you will get a bigger unit.


----------



## Treemann

*Nothing beats horsepower*

Horsepower, size and weight yep, that's the answer. I hate grinding itself so I spend very little time acually grinding. Get it over with and go to the next job. What kind of diesel does the 90 have? I have a 50 and it is a beautifiul machine. How did they upgrade the engine?


----------



## jg55056

Check it out. http://www.raycomfg.com/rg90solo.htm 

The outside wheels come off and go back on it under 10min. You simply lift the machine up with the cutter wheel to take them off.


----------



## ropensaddle

jg55056 said:


> Check it out. http://www.raycomfg.com/rg90solo.htm
> 
> The outside wheels come off and go back on it under 10min. You simply lift the machine up with the cutter wheel to take them off.



I will be on the tenth stump by the time you take them off!


----------



## arborworks1

Not in a backyard you will not. I'm liking the carlton tracks. FLip a button and I'm through the gate and flip it the other way and I'm ready to grind. I think the best feature the tracks allow is instant positioning for side roots out of swing width.


----------



## ropensaddle

arborworks1 said:


> Not in a backyard you will not. I'm liking the carlton tracks. FLip a button and I'm through the gate and flip it the other way and I'm ready to grind. I think the best feature the tracks allow is instant positioning for side roots out of swing width.



The backyards I do I will we have big gates here and if not I don't want them anyway


----------



## arborworks1

That is where the money is chief. YOu tow behind guys are a dime a dozen.


----------



## ropensaddle

arborworks1 said:


> That is where the money is chief. YOu tow behind guys are a dime a dozen.



You keep telling yourself that pilgrim but remember I went from that
to where I am now. I grind a hundred at a time feller so no walkbehind
is going to touch my work and thats fact.


----------



## arborworks1

I woould beg to differ, I think my self propelled, grinder will out grind your towbehind. Total time on a hundred stumps. I don't have to get in my truck and move the grinder around. I've got 60hp!


----------



## ropensaddle

arborworks1 said:


> I woould beg to differ, I think my self propelled, grinder will out grind your towbehind. Total time on a hundred stumps. I don't have to get in my truck and move the grinder around. I've got 60hp!



Tell you what then feller you take your walk along and I will
do my tow behind on one of my golf course contracts and we will
see who gets done faster!


----------



## arborworks1

First off I can't believe they let you drive trucks on the course anywhere. How close are the stumps together? If you have a dozen at a time close together I win hands down takes to much time to reposition the truck. I will load on trailer and tow to next spot by the time you have repostioned on 
10th stump.

I accept your challenge, where do I show up at. What are the terms?


----------



## ropensaddle

arborworks1 said:


> First off I can't believe they let you drive trucks on the course anywhere. How close are the stumps together? If you have a dozen at a time close together I win hands down takes to much time to reposition the truck. I will load on trailer and tow to next spot by the time you have repostioned on
> 10th stump.
> 
> I accept your challenge, where do I show up at. What are the terms?



They are fairly scattered out your trailer is not going to do it won't make the turns through the many bridges on this pga course. So you will walk along roughly ten miles on 27 holes. They have been ground for this year as we do them in summer so the truck is no issue. I will keep your challenge in mind and the terms we would have to arrange something. By the way unless
you can grind at ten dollars per stump you won't make it here!
Oh almost forgot it depends on who is driving the truck weather
your right or wrong on the dozen close together but that would
be your only strong suit.


----------



## arborworks1

You are telling me that yout truck makes it on those bridges with stumper in tow? If that is the case then I'll just load up on my landscape truck and whip it to the next spot of stumps. And grind those #####s from the comfort of my truck cab in the ac. 10 a stump a hundred at a time, no problem. Easy 6/7 hours of work.


----------



## arborworks1

You have a driver and someone running the machine?


----------



## ropensaddle

arborworks1 said:


> You are telling me that yout truck makes it on those bridges with stumper in tow? If that is the case then I'll just load up on my landscape truck and whip it to the next spot of stumps. And grind those #####s from the comfort of my truck cab in the ac. 10 a stump a hundred at a time, no problem. Easy 6/7 hours of work.



Sounds like ya got a good setup then. We are both 60 hp


----------



## ropensaddle

arborworks1 said:


> You have a driver and someone running the machine?



Yes my wife!


----------



## arborworks1

That is ok then. I see all the guys around here, paying help to drive the trucks around half of their drivers suck and backing up. It takes them for ever to get into position and actually do the work. I have people working for me that cleanup if its needed. I'm usually done grinding when they finish cleaning the first stump up. I like golf course though they are great money makers.


----------



## Treemann

*Hey ropensaddle*

Is Arkansas pretty busy now as far as tree work goes? This stinking economy is really slowing down the phone calls, worse than 9-11. Where in the country is the best place to keep on working through the winter? I like my heavy duty equipment as much as the next guy, but the thing I want most is paying customers. I am even willing to move to an area and buy a business if I thought the work was happening. Know of any place? Thanks, Treemann


----------



## ropensaddle

Treemann said:


> Is Arkansas pretty busy now as far as tree work goes? This stinking economy is really slowing down the phone calls, worse than 9-11. Where in the country is the best place to keep on working through the winter? I like my heavy duty equipment as much as the next guy, but the thing I want most is paying customers. I am even willing to move to an area and buy a business if I thought the work was happening. Know of any place? Thanks, Treemann



Well it was going good but has slowed some I thought I might 
actually see profit then the slow down Their is work but
many price shoppers probably not too much different from where your at.


----------



## gr8scott72

ropensaddle said:


> I will be on the tenth stump by the time you take them off!



But you can't get to any stumps that he can if he has to take the wheels off.


Now, I, on the otherhand, WILL be on the 10th backyard stump by the time you get those wheels off and back on. (I wouldn't want to grind with that heavy machine on only 2 wheels.)


----------



## corndogg

Treemann said:


> Is Arkansas pretty busy now as far as tree work goes? This stinking economy is really slowing down the phone calls, worse than 9-11. Where in the country is the best place to keep on working through the winter? I like my heavy duty equipment as much as the next guy, but the thing I want most is paying customers. I am even willing to move to an area and buy a business if I thought the work was happening. Know of any place? Thanks, Treemann



I had always heard Denver was one of the strongest markets for everything. I had expected to keep workiing in Minneapolis through Thanksgiving but it died off a few weeks ago. Phone is silent, no e-mails. I haate winter.

I've got an RG50 with 1200 hrs on it(a little tired) and I think it's great. I used to run an SC1102 and I don't think it's much faster than my RG. I love the RG chassis, I've never run one but an RG90 has got to be king. There have been a few times on very wet ground where the RG would spin (single wheels, two wheel drive). TRacks could be better but you gotta turn and they can rip things up too.


----------



## ropensaddle

gr8scott72 said:


> But you can't get to any stumps that he can if he has to take the wheels off.
> 
> 
> Now, I, on the otherhand, WILL be on the 10th backyard stump by the time you get those wheels off and back on. (I wouldn't want to grind with that heavy machine on only 2 wheels.)


 you have those back yard gigs they don't pay me enough
ps clean your machine before you take pictures lol so does it have
much hp?


----------



## gr8scott72

ropensaddle said:


> you have those back yard gigs they don't pay me enough
> ps clean your machine before you take pictures lol so does it have
> much hp?



Those backyard gigs paid over $9k in 11 days in houston/beaumont.

That one job took about 45 minutes total and was $350.

I was in TX and didn't have time to clean my machine. Besides, my machine makes as much dirty as it does clean.

That's a 60 hp grinder.


----------



## arborworks1

Same grinder I have. That was good money, where you following a company or just beating down doors?


----------



## gr8scott72

arborworks1 said:


> Same grinder I have. That was good money, where you following a company or just beating down doors?



Followed a company for a while and was bored out of my mind and not making enuf. Drove to Houston from Beaumont and hooked up with a guy that had a smaller grinder that couldn't do the large blow-overs and we beat doors for 4 days and I made over $7k in those 4 days.


----------



## ctrees4$

dude.. you should stop letting people set your price. Get a figure in your head and stick with it. Word of mouth works both ways..( I just gewed this stump guy down 50 bucks and he worked his @ss off!! get him he is cheap) That will be the next setence after your name is spoken.Never give a price until you see the stump.Offer 2 prices if they want to save some cash.. 1 price is grind only.. 2nd price is grind,backfill, and haul away debree.Most important is do a great job. When that word gets out you can set your price high and still get work.Let someone else break even or loose money on the stumps you don't get.There is no point in working unless you are making money..and yes i hate grinding stumps!!! But is easier money than splitting firewood.


----------



## ropensaddle

gr8scott72 said:


> Those backyard gigs paid over $9k in 11 days in houston/beaumont.
> 
> That one job took about 45 minutes total and was $350.
> 
> I was in TX and didn't have time to clean my machine. Besides, my machine makes as much dirty as it does clean.
> 
> That's a 60 hp grinder.



Whoa easy there skin so soft just messing around
It is good you made money and with the 60hp I understand how
You could still clean the machine though:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## gr8scott72

ropensaddle said:


> Whoa easy there skin so soft just messing around
> It is good you made money and with the 60hp I understand how
> You could still clean the machine though:hmm3grin2orange:



Only time I take the time to clean it is when it is time to change the teeth. Then I will pressure wash it and it makes that job so much easier.

It still has TX dirt on it right now.


----------



## Treemann

*Way two much!*

Your just two much Scott!


----------



## arborworks1

I'm getting all my ducks in a row to chase with the grinder next year. Not texas, but if we have one close on the east coast. Just need to get some gang boxes and a few spare sets of teeth. I don't want any gear to be visible, except the grinder.


----------



## ropensaddle

arborworks1 said:


> I'm getting all my ducks in a row to chase with the grinder next year. Not texas, but if we have one close on the east coast. Just need to get some gang boxes and a few spare sets of teeth. I don't want any gear to be visible, except the grinder.



So what you do is drive there and park with a sign or what?


----------



## gr8scott72

arborworks1 said:


> I'm getting all my ducks in a row to chase with the grinder next year. Not texas, but if we have one close on the east coast. Just need to get some gang boxes and a few spare sets of teeth. I don't want any gear to be visible, except the grinder.



Check out my thread in the heavy equipment section. It has a lot of photos of how my trailer is set up:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=69653


----------



## arborworks1

I have seen It Scott. I just prefer to keep everything out of eyesight. I carry 100 gallons of diesel and a couple of saws, blower,spare filters, teeth grease and gas and oil. Food tent and about a week and a half of clothes. 

I might take my climbing gear and light rigging just in case.


----------



## gr8scott72

arborworks1 said:


> I have seen It Scott. I just prefer to keep everything out of eyesight. I carry 100 gallons of diesel and a couple of saws, blower,spare filters, teeth grease and gas and oil. Food tent and about a week and a half of clothes.
> 
> I might take my climbing gear and light rigging just in case.



I had all of the above and the only thing not locked was my water cooler and the extra gas tanks I took when I went to TX. The 3, 5 gallon tanks I have are locked.

And now I have an Ecxursion instead of just my Durango so I can throw even more inside and still have it locked and out of sight.


----------



## gr8scott72

arborworks1 said:


> and light rigging just in case.



Mine's built in now!!!


----------



## arborworks1

Did you get a diesel? Seems Like those blowovers would dull out teeth pretty quick grinding all that dirt.


----------



## arborworks1

Yeah, I was talking about rigging gear for easy tree trimming. Not going to get into any big takedowns on the road. But I might run across a broken limb or an easy trim that the td crews didn't want to faulk with.


----------



## gr8scott72

arborworks1 said:


> Did you get a diesel? Seems Like those blowovers would dull out teeth pretty quick grinding all that dirt.



I went through about $150 worth of teeth sharpening in the $9,000 that I made. (Basically one full set and a few broken ones.)


----------



## gr8scott72

arborworks1 said:


> Did you get a diesel? Seems Like those blowovers would dull out teeth pretty quick grinding all that dirt.



No, it's the V10, but it was basically given to me by my father-in-law. So I can't complain. And it is still PLENTY strong.


----------



## arborworks1

I have a guy here sharpening mine for 1.50 per tooth. I figured taking 2 full sets plus and two sets of fronts on top of that. I need to get 2 screens made up. 

Are you heading to any ice storms?


----------



## Treemann

*Teeth*

Don't sharpen, it ruins the tooth body. Send them to me for re-tipping with good hard carbide. Cheap


----------



## arborworks1

I can get two good sharpens out before getting into the body. I'll keep it in mind though.


----------



## gr8scott72

Treemann said:


> Don't sharpen, it ruins the tooth body. Send them to me for re-tipping with good hard carbide. Cheap



How much to retip Sandvic teeth?

i really doubt it's cheaper to retip than it is to sharpen them. I can sharpen them up to 4 times at least. (Haven't had them long enuf to need more.) My next door neighbor sharpens, sand blasts, and runs them through a die if the threads are buggered for $3 each.

None of my broken teeth can really be retipped because I didn't catch them right when they broke and the carbide bed was compromised.


----------



## LumberJackNW

gr8scott72 said:


> I went through about $150 worth of teeth sharpening in the $9,000 that I made. (Basically one full set and a few broken ones.)


What grinding wheel are you using? I have a Carlton and just switched out the wheel and teeth for an Rhino Wheel with only 4 teeth instead of the 24 on my old one that were EXPENSIVE to replace. Have to say the wheel is everything I was told it was and more. Only 4 teeth to replace, easy to take on and off, cuts so smooth, less resistance on machine, and faster.


----------



## indianajack

LumberJackNW said:


> What grinding wheel are you using? I have a Carlton and just switched out the wheel and teeth for an Rhino Wheel with only 4 teeth instead of the 24 on my old one that were EXPENSIVE to replace. Have to say the wheel is everything I was told it was and more. Only 4 teeth to replace, easy to take on and off, cuts so smooth, less resistance on machine, and faster.


Be interesting to see if you get a reply on a 10 year old thread!


----------



## Hddnis

Look at that! He got two!

Now if he gets his question answered that will really be something.


----------



## Tyrel

I sharpen my own pin teeth with I diamond wheel side grinder on machine. Been doing it for about four years now and honestly I don’t understand why people still talking about sending them somewhere to get sharpened or retipped. Or using a green wheel . Since I discovered how to sharpen on machine I’m putting on old teeth with fat carbide left and re sharping. Unless teeth are totally trashed, I can have s sharp edge back on all of them in about 35 minutes.


----------

