# Problem with Harv's Sales in Detroit MI



## gr8scott72

I've been trolling around on here for awhile and finally decided to post. It's kind of a negative post but hope it provides a warning to some and maybe someone can offer some help.

I sell used cars for a living and love it but I want to do something on my own. I would love to have my own car lot but the amount of money I would need would put that many more years down the road. I have often thought about starting my own stump grinding business and finally decided to do so. I think I have read everything on the internet that there is about grinding and have talked extensively to a local grinder to whom I sold a truck to. He has been very helpful.

I believe in paying for every piece of equipment with cash and was really wanting a Carlton 7015 but didn't quite have that much money. I decided it would be better to just go ahead and get something smaller and get started now instead of waiting til I could afford the larger machine.

I have scoured all the equipement classifieds and finally settled on a 2005 Rayco 1625 with the 25 horse Kohler. It was being sold by Harv's Sales (Harv's Tree Service) and showed under 100 hours and the description was "like new". I thought the price was a little high at $9,800 but was willing to pay it for an under 100 hour machine. We worked a deal out and ended up paying $9,500 for the machine and $800 for shipping.

It took a week longer to get the machine than he told me. When the machine finally got here, even before it was off the truck I could notice that the whole machine had been repainted and poorly at that. There was overspray on everything and later I would find out that the grease fittings had also been painted over and at least two of them would not accept and grease. The next thing I noticed before it was even off the machine was that it didn't have Greenteeth on it like Harv said it did. Finally got it off the truck and the wiring harness for the trailer had the connector just snipped off with just bare wires hanging out the front. These few thing in and by themselves didn't really bother me that much and I was excited to get it.

I got it home and got it cranked up and backed it off the trailer. That's when I noticed the blade will spin when the engine is at low revs and the clutch is disengaged.

All the hydrolics seemed to work good and I started driving it around the house to the back yard. I got to the first little stump that I wanted to try it out on, backed it up to the stump, and right then the engine started sputtering and died. I never even got to try it.

I finally got it back on the trailer with a little help from my dad's Kubota tractor. I took it to one shop but didn't have a real good feeling about them and picked it up before they even touched it.

I took it home and started piddling with it a little. I pulled the valve cover off one cylinder and actually found a leaf inside the valve cover. I also saw that several of the parts actually had rust on them. I pulled the other valve cover off and found that one of the rockers was actually completely off the spring that goes to the cam. It was so far over that it had already scored the side of the valve cover. I undid it and put it back on directly over the spring, put everything back together and then tried starting it. It cranked right up.

The next morning I went out to try to use it. Same thing, I got it all the way around to the back yard, backed up to the stump, and it quit again. Took forever to get it back loaded on the trailer.

Next day I took it to a different shop. Two days later, they had it running. I went to pick it up and they told me that someone had been in the engine and not put it back together very well. They had to replace the choke plate as it was bent a full 90 degrees. They said they had to re-tap several bolt holes and that there was dirt all inside the engine. They told me that there was no way that that engine only had 100 hours on it and that all I paid for was a paint job. They showed me how it puffs a cloud of smoke every time you idle it to full.

So far Harv was nice every time I called him, saying to get it fixed and let him know what it was. He kept saying that they looked it over when they got it and everything was fine.

After I heard what my mechanic said, I don’t really feel all that great about keeping the machine as a new engine is about $1,800 plus labor to put it on and the mechanics said there was no way to know how long that engine would last.

I called Harv and expressed my concern and the fact that it was not in the condition that he advertised it to be. He kept saying that it worked for them and to the best of his knowledge it was “like new”. I kept telling him that even the stuff on the outside is not how he described it; no Greenteeth, blade spinning when clutch disengaged, grease fittings not working, guard over blade missing, welds holding the bolts holding bumper on were broken, the trailer had to be completely rewired, and engine puffing oil every time you rev it up.

I told him that I just wanted to give the machine back and get my money back. I even told him that I am willing to pay for shipping BOTH ways and he just give me the $9,500 back and not even bother with the fact that I put new lights on the trailer and rewired it and had the engine fixed. I would pay all the shipping and he would be getting a machine back that is in better shape than when he sold it. He says he doesn’t take machines back and he sells everything as is. I said “That’s fine but you also sold it in “like new” condition and nothing on here is like new.”

He’s still holding to his “I don’t take machines back” and now he’s even being childish by hanging up on me and then not answering my calls.

It’s
Harv’s Tree Service or Harv’s Sales
22230 Harper Ave
St Clair Shores, MI 48080
586-771-4400 office
810-602-5960 cell

I think I’m being more than reasonable and don’t really know what to do. Any suggestions would be great. I know this was long, thanks for reading.

Scott


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## ddhlakebound

gr8scott72 said:


> I've been trolling around on here for awhile and finally decided to post. It's kind of a negative post but hope it provides a warning to some and maybe someone can offer some help.
> 
> I sell used cars for a living and love it but I want to do something on my own. I would love to have my own car lot but the amount of money I would need would put that many more years down the road. I have often thought about starting my own stump grinding business and finally decided to do so. I think I have read everything on the internet that there is about grinding and have talked extensively to a local grinder to whom I sold a truck to. He has been very helpful.
> 
> I believe in paying for every piece of equipment with cash and was really wanting a Carlton 7015 but didn't quite have that much money. I decided it would be better to just go ahead and get something smaller and get started now instead of waiting til I could afford the larger machine.
> 
> I have scoured all the equipement classifieds and finally settled on a 2005 Rayco 1625 with the 25 horse Kohler. It was being sold by Harv's Sales (Harv's Tree Service) and showed under 100 hours and the description was "like new". I thought the price was a little high at $9,800 but was willing to pay it for an under 100 hour machine. We worked a deal out and ended up paying $9,500 for the machine and $800 for shipping.
> 
> It took a week longer to get the machine than he told me. When the machine finally got here, even before it was off the truck I could notice that the whole machine had been repainted and poorly at that. There was overspray on everything and later I would find out that the grease fittings had also been painted over and at least two of them would not accept and grease. The next thing I noticed before it was even off the machine was that it didn't have Greenteeth on it like Harv said it did. Finally got it off the truck and the wiring harness for the trailer had the connector just snipped off with just bare wires hanging out the front. These few thing in and by themselves didn't really bother me that much and I was excited to get it.
> 
> I got it home and got it cranked up and backed it off the trailer. That's when I noticed the blade will spin when the engine is at low revs and the clutch is disengaged.
> 
> All the hydrolics seemed to work good and I started driving it around the house to the back yard. I got to the first little stump that I wanted to try it out on, backed it up to the stump, and right then the engine started sputtering and died. I never even got to try it.
> 
> I finally got it back on the trailer with a little help from my dad's Kubota tractor. I took it to one shop but didn't have a real good feeling about them and picked it up before they even touched it.
> 
> I took it home and started piddling with it a little. I pulled the valve cover off one cylinder and actually found a leaf inside the valve cover. I also saw that several of the parts actually had rust on them. I pulled the other valve cover off and found that one of the rockers was actually completely off the spring that goes to the cam. It was so far over that it had already scored the side of the valve cover. I undid it and put it back on directly over the spring, put everything back together and then tried starting it. It cranked right up.
> 
> The next morning I went out to try to use it. Same thing, I got it all the way around to the back yard, backed up to the stump, and it quit again. Took forever to get it back loaded on the trailer.
> 
> Next day I took it to a different shop. Two days later, they had it running. I went to pick it up and they told me that someone had been in the engine and not put it back together very well. They had to replace the choke plate as it was bent a full 90 degrees. They said they had to re-tap several bolt holes and that there was dirt all inside the engine. They told me that there was no way that that engine only had 100 hours on it and that all I paid for was a paint job. They showed me how it puffs a cloud of smoke every time you idle it to full.
> 
> So far Harv was nice every time I called him, saying to get it fixed and let him know what it was. He kept saying that they looked it over when they got it and everything was fine.
> 
> After I heard what my mechanic said, I don’t really feel all that great about keeping the machine as a new engine is about $1,800 plus labor to put it on and the mechanics said there was no way to know how long that engine would last.
> 
> I called Harv and expressed my concern and the fact that it was not in the condition that he advertised it to be. He kept saying that it worked for them and to the best of his knowledge it was “like new”. I kept telling him that even the stuff on the outside is not how he described it; no Greenteeth, blade spinning when clutch disengaged, grease fittings not working, guard over blade missing, welds holding the bolts holding bumper on were broken, the trailer had to be completely rewired, and engine puffing oil every time you rev it up.
> 
> I told him that I just wanted to give the machine back and get my money back. I even told him that I am willing to pay for shipping BOTH ways and he just give me the $9,500 back and not even bother with the fact that I put new lights on the trailer and rewired it and had the engine fixed. I would pay all the shipping and he would be getting a machine back that is in better shape than when he sold it. He says he doesn’t take machines back and he sells everything as is. I said “That’s fine but you also sold it in “like new” condition and nothing on here is like new.”
> 
> He’s still holding to his “I don’t take machines back” and now he’s even being childish by hanging up on me and then not answering my calls.
> 
> It’s
> Harv’s Tree Service or Harv’s Sales
> 22230 Harper Ave
> St Clair Shores, MI 48080
> 586-771-4400 office
> 810-602-5960 cell
> 
> I think I’m being more than reasonable and don’t really know what to do. Any suggestions would be great. I know this was long, thanks for reading.
> 
> Scott



Welcome to AS. You are not in a very enviable position to be in. Sounds to me like he outright lied. You're not the first it's happened to, and you wont be the last. You've been very reasonable, but I have my doubts as to wether you will get anything more from the seller. 

I think your mistake was paying for it and having it delivered without checking it out in person. That's quite a bit of money to trust that someone is being honest and accurate in their description of the equipment. 

When I bought my Carlton 2400 it was described as "ready to go to work, strong motor, does not use oil, good teeth". When we got there to look at it, and see it run, it was kinda close to as described. Motor at least 50% used, burning oil, and thrashed teeth. We got the trailer thrown in for free, and a seemingly rebuildable extra motor, and $500 off the asking price. We'd been looking for a 252/1625/2400 for a month and a half within 200-300 miles, and went ahead and got it. But having the cash in my pocket, and the option to walk away felt much safer. 

I may be able to help with one mechanical issue. The cutter wheel turning while the clutch is disengaged is probably due to improper placement of the small metal angled piece which keeps the belt from grabbing when the clutch is disengaged. Try to adjust it until you find the spot where it doesn't grab at all when clutch is not engaged. I thought mine was too close to the belt because it was rubbing slightly when engaging/disengaging. I moved it out a bit, and it caused my cutter wheel to turn when not engaged. 

Hope this helps, and good luck.


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## arbor pro

*Maybe Harv has a grudge against guys named Scott*

I had a similar experience with Harv's Tree Service and, by the way, my name is also 'Scott'. Harv did the same thing to me on the sale of a 2001 Vermeer 1250 chipper. He told me it was a '9 or 10' in both appearance and mechanical condition and that it had only 500 hours on it. He even sent me pictures which seemed to justify his appearance rating.

Based on Harv's description of the machine, I bought the chipper sight unseen and paid $600 for delivery to another location where I was picking up a bucket truck that I had also purchased.

On a scale of 1 to 10, it was maybe a 6 in appearance and a 5 in mechanical condition. It had a very poor paintover just as the other lister said he got with the Rayco 1625 stump grinder. The poor quality of the paint job couldn't be seen from the pictures Harv sent me (in the photos it looked brand new) but the poor conditon sure was noticeable when I saw the chipper up close. There were dents all over it that weren't noticeable in the photos. The hitch was bent and the lights didn't work. 

When I started the machine, the engine seemed to start and run ok so, I went with Harv's word that the chipper worked great and decided to take it home despite my hesitation.

When I got it home, I took it to my local Vermeer shop to have it serviced just to make sure everything was working right. The Vermeer guys just laughed at me and said that I got totally screwed by Harv. The chipper had wear signs indicative to a machine with around 2000+ hours use. There was dirt in the engine and all kinds of wear problems with the machine that added up to about $3500 in repairs! In other words, the machine that I had purchased for $14,500 and anticipated to be work-ready was really worth no more than $8000 in its present condition and needed numerous repairs if I was going to use it at all!

I called Harv right away and expressed my extreme disappointment in how he represented the machine. He politely told me I should have site-inspected the machine before buying it and that the sale was final. After subsequent conversations with Harv grew increasingly heated, Harv finally agreed to send me $1000 to go toward repairs. Begrudgingly, I agreed to the $1000 and had Vermeer complete the repairs as I didn't have time to do them myself.

After the repairs were completed, Harv quickly backed out of our agreement and said that he wasn't sending any money - repeating that I took his word for the condition of the machine and that I should have site inspected it. He offered that, if I still wanted to return the machine at my expense, he would now take it back. Mind you, I just spent $3500 in repairs on it - none of which he would be reimbursing me for. 

I contacted the Michigan Better Business Bureau and sent Harv's a letter threatening to take him to court. Something in my letters or phone calls must have done the trick because Harv soon called back all nicey-nice and told me that the $1000 check was 'in the mail' and that he was sorry for any inconvenience.

Be weary when buying from Harv's Tree Service. Don't buy without an on-site inspection and take along a knowledgeable mechanic if you're not one yourself. Buyer beware!!!


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## arbor pro

*contact the wisconsin bbb*

gr8Scott72,

You should contact the MI Better Business Bureau and get a complaint on record with them. Between my complaint and yours and any others that may be looming out there, maybe we can get some oversight on this guy's business practices and help prevent someone else from following suit...

The other scott


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## Tree Slayer

It seems to me that you being a used car dealer you should have none better. This really sucks to hear both these stories,I hope alot of people read this and stay away from that a hole. One time I flew to Wisconson to buy a chipper truck that was suppose to be like new. I was gonna just drive it home instead of having it delivered got there looked at the truck and said take me back to the airport.I was so mad at how great these guys said this truck was only to find out it was a huge POS.


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## clearance

On a much less serious note, I once went to look at a pickup for my g/f, on the phone the guy assured me the truck was nice, no rust, blah, blah, blah. After I drove though heavy traffic after work, found the truck, got parked and started walkng towards it my cell rang, it was my g/f "did you look at the truck" "yes, i'm just walikng up to it and boy is it ever a p.o.s." Like who are these assclowns, where do they get off?


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## jonseredbred

what happened to my post??


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## clearance

jonseredbred said:


> what happened to my post??



Double post, its still there.


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## gr8scott72

Tree Slayer said:


> It seems to me that you being a used car dealer you should have none better. This really sucks to hear both these stories,I hope alot of people read this and stay away from that a hole. One time I flew to Wisconson to buy a chipper truck that was suppose to be like new. I was gonna just drive it home instead of having it delivered got there looked at the truck and said take me back to the airport.I was so mad at how great these guys said this truck was only to find out it was a huge POS.




Yes, I should know better. Being a car salesman, maybe that's why I'm too trusting in a situation like this. I have sold several cars over long distances and have always described every little problem that I could possibly think of before someone drives all day to come get it.

I just took his word on the description and obviously hot air is worth more than his word.


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## jonseredbred

clearance said:


> Double post, its still there.



Ahh, OK


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## gr8scott72

Here's an update:

I went ahead and put it on a stump. I did a small 12" pine and yes, the teeth are VERY dull. I then started on another stump and when I loaded it up it started sputtering just like it has before. Dead again.

Oh, before it died, I found yet another piece that was missing. The pin that connects the opposite side wheel to the drive shaft is gone so it's basically one wheel drive. It gets stuck everywhere.

I have now loaded this thing back on the trailer more with my own power than I have under its power and let me tell you, it's not fun.

Next day I drop it back off at the mechanic's. Later in the day I decide to just bite the bullet and get a new engine. Got a brand new Kohler Command 27 hp including shipping for $1871 complete with muffler and everything.

Also bought a full Greenteeth set-up with 18 teeth and 18 spare teeth.

I call the mechanic back this morning and he says it's ready. The rocker arm came off the spring on the intake side cylider just like it was on the opposite cylider. He said all the screws holding them in were stripped and that's why it didn't hold. This whole engine has been reworked (even though it is only supposed to have 100 hours on it.) He found a newer looking hydrualic lifter off a different engine that through a rod. I think that is the most ironic thing, a machine that had complete engine failure had parts on it that are in better shape than my "like new" under 100 hour engine.

Anyway, $66 later, it runs again. For how long? That's anyones guess. I bought a couple oil filters and some synthetic oil (found some Valvoline full synthetic Advance Auto was trying to get rid of for $9.95 a gallon.) to try to get as much use out of this engine before it completely craps out and I have to put the new one on there.

I also ordered from the local Rayco dealership the pin that connects the wheel to the drive hub, the guard that goes over the front of the cutting wheel, and the dual wheel option kit so I don't get stuck so much.


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## fubar2

I would, as mentioned, get in touch with the BBB. Then I would get in touch with your state and his state Attorney Generals Office. I got into a mess a bit like yours one time. BBB doesnt actually carry much weight, but they usually "snap too" when they hear from the Attorney General. Saved me 3500.00 bucks.


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## neighborstree

personally i would of never bought it without seeing it in person, i would of had it delivered and handed the delivery person a certified check or cash, or mailed the funds once i seen and operated the piece of junk. . its ashame that you got skreweed. i buy new or off other tree guys, never a dealer. dealers and used car sales men are the dirtyest people on earth, lol no offence scott


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## Mitchell

*name change*

If anyone notices this dirt bag changing his business handle be sure to post it. Hopefully he will pull a similar stunt with the wrong guy.


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## Oly's Stump

I use to buy used equipment and had some nightmare stories. Now I only buy new with a good dealer. I learned my lesson. Good luck!


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## gr8scott72

Well, it lasted exactly one hour and then crapped out again. This time for good I think. I went ahead and took the engine off getting ready for the new one. The engine's main bearing has alot of play and was probably what caused the last failure. When I got the engine off, I saw that the output shaft of the engine and the hydaulic pulley had all kinds of marks on them where they had been beat on with a hammer.

The muffler was actually cracked where it bolts onto on of the cylinders. The muffler was attached to one cylinder using one gasket but the other side was attached using two gaskets. I guess if one is good two is better? 

Anyways, I got everything off and soaked the grinder down with some Simple Green and then pressure washed everything. The new engine should be here Friday as should the dual rear wheels and blade guard. I guess I'll be good to go this weekend.:greenchainsaw: 

I already have 10-15 people waiting for me to get it going. It's time to stop spending money and actually MAKE some. Geez.


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## arbor pro

*business must be booming for Harv*

I see Harv's Sales now has a full-page spread in the Tree Trader magazine. Business must be booming for 'ole Harv! (I wonder at who's cost...?)

Since a new AboristSite member has inquired about good/bad equipment dealers in an Commercial Tree Care forum thread ($50k to spend on equipment), I felt it was appropriate to revisit this thread about Harv's. Any readers can take the information given within this post for what you will. I'm not telling anyone not to buy from this guy - I'm just strongly advising you to inspect very closely in person what you are buying. Don't buy anything sight unseen or from photos as your opinion of equipment in 'good' condition and Harv's opinion of the same may differ significantly...


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## gr8scott72

I actually found out that my machine was originally sold to a rental place in florida. I called them and the last contract they had on it had the machine at 1041 hours. (Harv sold it to me "like new, under 100 hours) It was then sold at auction this february for $6,000. Not a bad deal huh? Buy it for $6,000, paint it, and then sell it for $10,000?

So far I'm up to about $2,700 ABOVE the cost of the machine and I still need to replace a few bearings.

I filled a complaint with the MI state AG office. We'll see what that does. If I still don't have any results, I will be taking this to my lawyer.

I do have the grinder up and running and have actually made a couple grand in the last few weeks. Not bad for 1 day a week.


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## gr8scott72

arbor pro said:


> I'm not telling anyone not to buy from this guy



Well, I am. DON'T BUY FROM THIS GUY!!!!



arbor pro said:


> I'm just strongly advising you to inspect very closely in person what you are buying. Don't buy anything sight unseen or from photos as your opinion of equipment in 'good' condition and Harv's opinion of the same may differ significantly...



Opinion is one thing, but lying about the hours is another thing.


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## arbor pro

*I feel the same*



gr8scott72 said:


> Well, I am. DON'T BUY FROM THIS GUY!!!!
> 
> Opinion is one thing, but lying about the hours is another thing.



I'm just trying to prevent 'ole Harv from having any grounds whatsoever for a liable suit. Given the chance, who knows, he might try to make a claim in court that revealing the truth about his business practices is costing him sales! I just want to give folks the facts and let them make up their minds whether or not they should give Harv their money...

Personally, not a chance in .... he'll ever get another nickel of my money!


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## CalTreeEquip

*Lesson to be learned.*

Never buy sight-unseen. 
I never like to sell sight-unseen and when it's the only way for the buyer to do it then I make sure he understands the negatives to the machine, I even list then on the invoice and describe the extent to which it has or has not been tested.
And even then it makes me nervous because this is used equipment and you never now when an engine or bearing is going to fail. All you can say for sure is "these are the stats at this time".
If your going to buy sight-unseen have the dealer provide you with detailed close-up pictures of the wear points, and lists the service that he has done including a compression and oil pressure test.
If the seller doesn't know what you mean by wear points or doesn't have a digital camera then don't do business with him.
And remember, it takes two to screw.


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## DDM

If you mailed him a check did he mail you a BOS? I remember reading somewhere you could claim it as mail fraud.


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## jonseredbred

RANDY

I hope you don't buy from this clown.


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## GlenWimpy

WOW , I was going to buy a 98 Morbark chipper from him , 13500 , 1600 hours! Guess I'd better rethink it!:monkey:


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## gr8scott72

GlenWimpy said:


> WOW , I was going to buy a 98 Morbark chipper from him , 13500 , 1600 hours! Guess I'd better rethink it!:monkey:



Probably has 6600 hours on it. :monkey:


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## Mowingman

Old Harv's business must be down a bunch. I noticed he is not advertising in the Tree and Landscape Trader anymore. Gee, I hope it was not due to anything that might have been revealed about his junk on this site?:hmm3grin2orange:


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## GlenWimpy

His web site is gone?


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## arbor pro

GlenWimpy said:


> Guess I'd better rethink it!:monkey:



Just run the other way. Does anyone else notice that Harv is always selling what appears to be 'Like New' condition equipment for thousands of $ less than the competition? To a buyer who hasn't already dealt with him, it might seem too good to be true. Guess what - it is.

You get what you pay for. If he's advertising a chipper for thousands less than other comparable ones are selling for, you had better believe that you're not comparing apples to apples. Something isn't being represented accurately.


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## gr8scott72

arbor pro said:


> Something isn't being represented accurately.



Yup, the actual hours and anything else that a cheap coat of paint will hide.


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## chemist

GlenWimpy said:


> His web site is gone?





Mowingman said:


> Old Harv's business must be down a bunch. I noticed he is not advertising in the Tree and Landscape Trader anymore. Gee, I hope it was not due to anything that might have been revealed about his junk on this site?:hmm3grin2orange:



hopefully he didn't just change the name of his business to operate under a clean slate?


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## CalTreeEquip

*Still around.*

He's still there.
August Tree Trader page 90.
There are lots of guys like this out there. I have to compete against them all the time at auctions. They pay to much for crap, don't know anything about servicing or even using the equipment, change the oil, slap some paint on there and a decal set and thats it.
That is why one should always inspect before buying.

WWW.CALIFORNIATREEEQUIPMENT.COM


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## Mowingman

I had missed that ad. I hope someone sues the heck out of him for false advertising some day, and wins.
Jeff


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## Harv's Sales

jonseredbred said:


> RANDY
> 
> I hope you don't buy from this clown.



Why would you make this statement you never bought any thing from Harv's Sales You don't have anything better to do with your time!!!!


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## Harv's Sales

Mowingman said:


> I had missed that ad. I hope someone sues the heck out of him for false advertising some day, and wins.
> Jeff



We don't give false information We have hundreds of satisfied customers One guy gets on here and you all want to jump on the wagon You have never had any dealings with Harv' Sales


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## Harv's Sales

chemist said:


> hopefully he didn't just change the name of his business to operate under a clean slate?



We have been advertising in the tree & landscaping magazine for over 8 years we have hundreds of satisfied customers one guy gets on here and complains and all of you say things you know nothing about I try and treat everybody fair But you have to know that you are not going to satisfy everbody!!!!!!


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## jsk

*harvs*

He is nothing but a big fat lying piece of crap to put it nicely. Everything that comesd out of his mouth is B.S. All of the equipment that her sells is junk that is in like new condition.I live about 2 hrs from his location and wanted to blast him in the face before I left . Told me all kinds of good stuff on the phone and when you see in person" junk". He paints everything to look what he calls like new. Im furious to hear about this. I wish I could take him to court myself and sue the pant off him for misrepresentation. Sorry to ramble I cant stand the guy.


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## gr8scott72

Harv's Sales said:


> We have been advertising in the tree & landscaping magazine for over 8 years we have hundreds of satisfied customers one guy gets on here and complains and all of you say things you know nothing about I try and treat everybody fair But you have to know that you are not going to satisfy everbody!!!!!!



So is this actually Harv or just one of his flunkies? Either way, might ballsy to say what you just did if you even read this thread let alone were actually the one dealing with these customers.

"Like new" and worn-out rental unit with new paint are not the same thing. If you've sold so many units you should be able to tell the difference. Apperently you can't.


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## gr8scott72

Harv's Sales said:


> We don't give false information We have hundreds of satisfied customers One guy gets on here and you all want to jump on the wagon You have never had any dealings with Harv' Sales



You do give false info. Every thing about what you told me about the grinder I bought from you was false I don't care how many "satisfied customer" you have in your mind.

I'm not speculating or guessing. I have first hand knowledge of your business practices and so do others on here.

You are a lie and a cheat.


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## Plyscamp

OK guys there is a nice site for guys like this, its called www.rippoff.com I use it allot when people don't want to pay me. I have one guy who filed bankruptcy owing everybody money and started a new business under a different name. I posted on both business and he was unable to get the new business off the ground. Every time someone typed in either name Ripp Off. Com comes up and gives them the low down on this crook. Check It Out.


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## Plyscamp

Make that www.ripoffreport.com Sorry about that


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## gr8scott72

Plyscamp said:


> Make that www.rippoffreport.com Sorry about that



Try one more time:

www.ripoffreport.com


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## arbor pro

Harv's Sales said:


> We have been advertising in the tree & landscaping magazine for over 8 years we have hundreds of satisfied customers one guy gets on here and complains and all of you say things you know nothing about I try and treat everybody fair But you have to know that you are not going to satisfy everbody!!!!!!



There are at least three of us on this site who have dealt with Harv's Sales directly and can certainly attest that he is NOT going to satisfy everybody! As a matter of fact, he is going to downright p**s off anyone who makes the mistake of taking his word on the condition of a piece of equipment!


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## Bigstumps

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## matt9923

If someone ripped me off 10k id go find them and make it right, plane and simple. 
He's obviously a low life piece of :censored:.


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## gr8scott72

arbor pro said:


> There are at least three of us on this site who have dealt with Harv's Sales directly and can certainly attest that he is NOT going to satisfy everybody! As a matter of fact, he is going to downright p**s off anyone who makes the mistake of taking his word on the condition of a piece of equipment!



Yep. I even offered to personally return the grinder myself so there wouldn't be any shipping charges and he flat out said no. Don't think that is even trying to satisfy me as an upset customer.


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## gr8scott72

Maybe the poster "Harv's Sales" works for Harv or is related to him and just really doesn't know the real Harv and can't believe the things that we are saying about him.

(Sorry to tell you, they are all true.)


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## boise firewood

*thanks guys*

Wow, well I've herd enough. I was gonna drive from Idaho to buy a chipper $25500 from him.I decided to google harv's sales before I contact them and this forum came up.I red every post and you guys saved me a long trip.


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## gr8scott72

boise firewood said:


> Wow, well I've herd enough. I was gonna drive from Idaho to buy a chipper $25500 from him.I decided to google harv's sales before I contact them and this forum came up.I red every post and you guys saved me a long trip.



Knowing that I stopped even just one person from going thru what I did just made my day.


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## arbor pro

gr8scott72 said:


> Knowing that I stopped even just one person from going thru what I did just made my day.



3,855 view to this thread at the time of this post. Pretty easy to assume that more than one person has taken note of how Harv treats his customers. Harv has slit his own throat by misrepresenting the equipment he sells. He has no one to blame but himself for any lost customers or revenue. Word will only continue to spread about his unethical practices and he will be his own demise eventually.


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## ChippersTreeSvc

I see tree equipment for sale at Tree Trader Home Page all the time by these guys. Equipment looks nice at good prices but now I see why people shouldn't buy from them.


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## kjw58

*low life equipment dealers*

Thanks for the heads up on Harv's. I live in s.e. mich and will not do business with them for sure. You guys need to file a complaint with the BBB. Most insurance companies check with the BBB before insuring businesses, complaints on record will hurt there ability to buy insurance.


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## arbor pro

I'm just happy to see this thread revived so folks remember what a rippoff artist Harv is. When it comes to his way of doing business, the old adage comes to mind; "if it seem too good to be true..." Beware, beware, beware.

AP


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## gr8scott72

Bump this one up for a new round of people to see!


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