# Husqvarna 357xp - 359etech comparison



## Mastermind (May 5, 2010)

I'm real new to this saw building stuff and this has probably been done before, I've just not seen it yet. So here goes. I have learned so much since I found this site, and want to learn some more, and my pics have improved as well (same camera). That's my goal here, to understand why the 357 is a sought after saw, but the 359 not so much. And what can be done to even things up.

I don't know crap about this stuff, I'm posting this hoping to be flamed by you guys with experience. I can handle it. Share what you have done with these saws.

The 357 jug is on the left. To my eye the transfers are miles ahead in flow capabilities. Who has port timing numbers on both saws? 







The exhaust ports appear to be the same size and shape.






As are the intake ports. 






Here a better shot of the 357 jug base.






Check out the crappy looking finish here. But with my grinder... And the transfer covers can be removed so it would be a breeze to work on the transfers.


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## Mastermind (May 5, 2010)

Again 357 on the left, I don't know a lot, but I feel like the piston on the right (359) would flow into the transfers better. Tell me how dumb I am, and why.






Both are the same height.






Deck height same.






Here's a shot of the cases, I don't see any difference except the small end of the rod is wider on the 359, which would add to reciprocating weight...right? Not all that great of a thing when you are trying to increase performance.


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## parrisw (May 6, 2010)

Good review so far, the main diff as I understand is just the JUG, and the 357 has crank stuffers.


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## Jacob J. (May 6, 2010)

I believe the later 357s have a rod that's the same width on the small end as the 359? Husky guys confirm this?


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## parrisw (May 6, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> I believe the later 357s have a rod that's the same width on the small end as the 359? Husky guys confirm this?



Not sure, but I know that the 357 went through a couple different piston revisions as well. When I got the piston for mine, there were 2 options, cant remember the difference, might be something to do with pin size?


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## Mastermind (May 6, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Not sure, but I know that the 357 went through a couple different piston revisions as well. When I got the piston for mine, there were 2 options, cant remember the difference, might be something to do with pin size?



I'm looking at pistons for both saws now. There are different pistons, it has to do with the connecting rod width...13mm and 15mm.

This 359 I have must be of a newer vintage, and is sporting the 15mm style rod.


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## blsnelling (May 6, 2010)

According to the IPL, the 357 and 359 are identical with the following exceptions.


Different P&C
Rev limited coil on 357
Crank stuffers in the 357. The crank and case is the same though.

The 359 P&C simply need some port work and it will run right with the 357, and if the 357 isn't ported, will blow it away. As you pointed out, there's lots of work to do with the transfers. The fastest 60cc saw I've built was a 359. IMHO, the 359 is one of the best values out there. It IS a pro saw.


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## SawTroll (May 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> According to the IPL, the 357 and 359 are identical with the following exceptions.
> 
> 
> Different P&C
> ...



Only when the engine has been ported! opcorn:opcorn:


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## blsnelling (May 6, 2010)

SawTroll said:


> Only when the engine has been ported! opcorn:opcorn:



IMHO, it's still a pro saw It's just a great value, especially if you grind your own cylinders.


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## ronT2 (May 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> IMHO, it's still a pro saw It's just a great value, *especially if you grind your own cylinders*.



I just did a little more port work on my 2159, can't wait to fire it up tonight.


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## Jacob J. (May 6, 2010)

Looking at Bailey's info there is older and newer pistons for the 357, which used the narrow connecting rod initially and then switched to the wider style rod.



Baileys said:


> # Husqvarna 357XP (before S/N 020700001)
> # Important Note This piston fits older chainsaws with a 13mm connecting rod. Newer model 357 chainsaws have a 15mm wide connecting rod which is not interchangeable. Be sure to check your serial number before ordering.


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## parrisw (May 6, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> Looking at Bailey's info there is older and newer pistons for the 357, which used the narrow connecting rod initially and then switched to the wider style rod.



Yes, thanks that was it! Been a number of month since I put the saw together.


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## SawTroll (May 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> IMHO, it's still a pro saw It's just a great value, especially* if you grind your own cylinders*.



That sort of was what I tried to say.......

This debate is a never ending story, regarding the 353, 359 and 365 - Huskys marketing has varied with market and time as well, but has mostly indicated non-pro.....


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## thumper440 (May 6, 2010)

Are some of the 359/2159 cylinders MAHLE?


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## blsnelling (May 6, 2010)

thumper440 said:


> Are some of the 359/2159 cylinders MAHLE?



No. Only on the 357.


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## Evan (May 6, 2010)

Troll says the 359 is a homeowner saw and doesnt compare to 357 so what the hekc are you doing wasteing your time. 

very good looking review so far


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## minkota1 (May 6, 2010)

Awesome post man! The comparison pics and all, I've toyed with some porting work on my 359 and getting to see the two jugs together is great! I'm a total newb to porting so I'm hoping to learn a bunch from this thread. I hope the experienced guys will share their insights.


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## Evan (May 6, 2010)

ive been looking over the 359 cyclinder trying to figure out who makes it. only marks ive found is a number above the transfer cover and a v2. piston is stamped mahle


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## Mastermind (May 6, 2010)

I will be porting the 359 jug after I get it cleaned up, but the 357 is not my saw and the owner just wants it to run again. 

I'll be adding to this post as I build the two saws, but first I have to order parts.

The 357 will be getting a carb kit, both crank seals, a metal style intake clamp, and new piston & ring. I plan to lower the squish and open up the muffler a bit even though it won't be used for much more than cutting fence posts...

The 359 is my saw and I intend to port it for a work saw, this is when I may be asking a bunch of questions.

It will be getting a piston kit and a metal intake clamp, aside from that it will just be a fun build.

I appreciate all the input guys...AS is a great place and I just want the attempt to give back a little of what I've been shown.


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## minkota1 (May 6, 2010)

SawTroll said:


> Only when the engine has been ported! opcorn:opcorn:



Troll, you're amazing with specs, wish I knew half the stuff you know, but dont you ever get tired of trying to educate us about the 359? Those of us who run them like them just fine!


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## minkota1 (May 6, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> I will be porting the 359 jug after I get it cleaned up, but the 357 is not my saw and the owner just wants it to run again.
> 
> I'll be adding to this post as I build the two saws, but first I have to order parts.
> 
> ...



This is just what I've been waiting for  Thanks for including us!:greenchainsaw:


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## SawTroll (May 6, 2010)

minkota1 said:


> Troll, you're amazing with specs, wish I knew half the stuff you know, but dont you ever get tired of trying to educate us about the 359? Those of us who run them like them just fine!



Far from all that bought them like the way they perform, and most that do probably don't have a 357xp or MS361 to compare it to, or they have a modded one!

A stock e-tech one (with cat muffler) obviously is very unimpressive, several threads here about that - I guess that is *not *what you, or anyone else that talk highly of that saw model are running! :greenchainsaw:

Almost anything can be made into decent runners with proper mods, but most people run their saws stock!


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## Eric Modell (May 6, 2010)

minkota1 said:


> Troll, you're amazing with specs, wish I knew half the stuff you know, but dont you ever get tired of trying to educate us about the 359? Those of us who run them like them just fine!



But when you run the 357 or ported 359 you will like it even better!!!


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## minkota1 (May 6, 2010)

SawTroll said:


> Far from all that bought them like the way they perform, and most that do probably don't have a 357xp or MS361 to compare it to, or they have a modded one!
> 
> A stock e-tech one (with cat muffler) obviously is very unimpressive, several threads here about that - I guess that is *not *what you, or anyone else that talk highly of that saw model are running! :greenchainsaw:
> 
> Almost anything can be made into decent runners with proper mods, but most people run their saws stock!



Hey Troll, not meaning to rile ya! The 359 isn't a racehorse, but for the money it costs here, it is a great value for a general purpose saw with a really good lower end. With just a little normal care it should last the average guy a lifetime, now the problem with that is, most guys around here aren't "normal" chainsaw guys :greenchainsaw:


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## SawTroll (May 6, 2010)

minkota1 said:


> Hey Troll, not meaning to rile ya! The 359 isn't a racehorse, but for the money it costs here, it is a great value for a general purpose saw with a really good lower end. With just a little normal care it should last the average guy a lifeti me, now the problem with that is, most guys around here aren't "normal" chainsaw guys :greenchainsaw:



Who cares about the low end - if that is an issue, the saw is too small for the task! 

Also, the only dyno test I have seen on the 359 indicate that it does *not* have a really good low end, not even close to the MS361, just comparatively better than the top end vs. the 357, but not vs. the 361 (and that was the non-cat version) ......


I wonder why saws that lack good top end power so often get a reputation of having a "good low end", even though they really don't - I can guess the reason has to do with "owners pride", and the fact that the low end isn't in the specs - but I can't prove it.......


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## thumper440 (May 6, 2010)

minkota1 said:


> Hey Troll, not meaning to rile ya! The 359 isn't a racehorse, but for the money it costs here, it is a great value for a general purpose saw with a really good lower end. With just a little normal care it should last the average guy a lifetime, now the problem with that is, most guys around here aren't "normal" chainsaw guys :greenchainsaw:


well said minkota.. these are both great saws! my friend and his dad works near me. one has a 359 and one has a 357xp. they each have the same skidder and end up with the same woodpile (paycheck) at the end of the day.


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## J.Walker (May 6, 2010)

Time to replace my 357xp.
What should I buy, another 357 or a 359?
I like the looks of the 2159 thats in the Trading Post.
If the 2159 is fitted with a intel carb is it different than the 359 carb?


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## ronT2 (May 6, 2010)

Here’s a little more info from AZLOGGER on the 357/359 interchange. Eric might remember this. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=84117&highlight=357



AZLOGGER said:


> *Eric:*
> This information is for Eric and any others that plan on exchanging the 359 cylinder to a 357 cylinder. Husqvarna changed the width of the small end of the con-rod on the 357 from 13mm to 15mm beginning with ser.#02-0700001. The 359 con-rod was always 15mm, so if you are converting a 359 to 357 you will need the following parts to eliminate any fitment problems.
> 
> In order to further improve reliability, and improve the compatibility of other components with model
> ...


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## minkota1 (May 6, 2010)

Troll you and I are gonna have to agree to disagree.


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## pioneerguy600 (May 6, 2010)

The 359 I rebuilt did not stay around long enough for me to get to porting it, I don`t keep many Huskies around for my own use and I was offered way too much for it so it found a happy new owner. I will watch this thread with interest and maybe I can learn a thing or two. 
Pioneerguy600


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## minkota1 (May 6, 2010)

QUOTE=blsnelling;2213447]IMHO, it's still a pro saw It's just a great value, especially if you grind your own cylinders.[/QUOTE]

:agree2:


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## Woodman 460 (May 6, 2010)

Having all three of the saws in question the ms361 turns out to be my favorite. All of my saws are stock.The 359 was a poor running saw from the start,the 357xp was better,but not a reliable saw either. The ms361 has proven to be the best in all categories for me. I'm not biased to any brand,I only appreciate relaible professional saws. I agree with sawtroll on the 359 being a NON-Pro saw. Here in my area the 357xp is ony $80-$100 more,not a huge difference or value to someone who leaves it stock.


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## nmurph (May 6, 2010)

i have all three, also, and :agree2:


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## minkota1 (May 6, 2010)

I thought this was about mastermind porting his 359. Lets leave all this whizzing match behind and just enjoy the build. :greenchainsaw:


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## Woodman 460 (May 6, 2010)

True enough, :agree2:
Sorry for any disruption here.


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## ronT2 (May 6, 2010)

J.Walker said:


> Time to replace my 357xp.
> What should I buy, another 357 or a 359?
> I like the looks of the 2159 thats in the Trading Post.
> If the 2159 is fitted with a intel carb is it different than the 359 carb?



Hey Jack, my 2159 is a very early 2008 saw and has the plagued (faulty accelerator pump) HDA 199 carb. So far it's been fine, I don't think it's an intel carb. Don't know if that helps any.


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## Mastermind (May 6, 2010)

SawTroll said:


> Who cares about the low end - if that is an issue, the saw is too small for the task!
> 
> Also, the only dyno test I have seen on the 359 indicate that it does *not* have a really good low end, not even close to the MS361, just comparatively better than the top end vs. the 357, but not vs. the 361 (and that was the non-cat version) ......
> 
> ...




I'm thinking when he said "a good lower end" he must have been referring to the crankcase instead of the low end torque...but I could just as well be wrong.


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## Mastermind (May 6, 2010)

Who has port timing numbers on both of these saws? 

If nobody does I'll make my first attempt at checking port timing. I'm pretty sure of the process. I'll see if I can work up some port maps too. 

Now I'm trying to learn something here, the crank stuffers are used take up volume in the crankcase. Does this add to the upper rpm power, add low end torque, or spread out the range of usable power?

If I only learned one thing drag racing it's that everything is a trade off. Torque for horsepower...or vice-versa


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## outdoortype (May 6, 2010)

ronT2 said:


> Hey Jack, my 2159 is a very early 2008 saw and has the plagued (faulty accelerator pump) HDA 199 carb. So far it's been fine, I don't think it's an intel carb. Don't know if that helps any.


I know it's rude to butt in.........
Buy the Zama C3 and the carb flange anyway! My 04 didn't start acting up until after my '06-and has way more hours on it. I thought that it was just the newer HDA's . But for like $60 its worth it to have on hand just in case. 
And I also remember reading a Jonsered advertisement that described a compensating carb but strangely, have never read any threads about it.


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## minkota1 (May 6, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> I'm thinking when he said "a good lower end" he must have been referring to the crankcase instead of the low end torque...but I could just as well be wrong.



I was referring to the crankcase:greenchainsaw:


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## ronT2 (May 6, 2010)

outdoortype said:


> I know it's rude to butt in.........
> Buy the Zama C3 and the carb flange anyway! My 04 didn't start acting up until after my '06-and has way more hours on it. I thought that it was just the newer HDA's . But for like $60 its worth it to have on hand just in case.
> And I also remember reading a Jonsered advertisement that described a compensating carb but strangely, have never read any threads about it.



Not rude at all…just more good info. I finally found the C3-EL42 on the Zama website tonight. They have the venturi diam. listed at 17mm. I couldn’t find a C3-EL carb with over a 15mm venturi until now. The HDA- 199 is listed at 16.66mm. With the mods that I’ve done to the saw I really didn’t want to go any smaller. 

Mastermind, here’s what I got for timing #s.

Stock 2159 timing.
Measurements without base gasket.
Squish: .021"
Intake: 78° BTDC=156°
Exhaust: 104°ATDC=152°
Transfers: 120°ATDC


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## Mastermind (May 6, 2010)

ronT2 said:


> Not rude at all…just more good info.
> 
> Mastermind, here’s what I got for timing #s.
> 
> ...



Too cool...thanks.

Now we need the timing #s for the 357 to compare. 

If I'm understanding all I think I know about this, lol. 

We have only got 16 degrees of blowdown on the 359...not a lot of time when you stick a restrictive muffler in the equation. 

Am I right in my thinking guys?


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## Zombiechopper (May 7, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> Who has port timing numbers on both of these saws?
> 
> If nobody does I'll make my first attempt at checking port timing. I'm pretty sure of the process. I'll see if I can work up some port maps too.
> 
> ...



I have tried to get an answer on the stuffers too on here. I do know my 357 spools up FAST and loves to hold the high rpm's. I don't think it lacks tourque as a trade off though as it cuts right with my 361 all day. I think the stuffers push the charge up faster so the fuel hits ignition point moving at a higher velocity and getting swirled around the combustion chamber for better burn....or maybe my arse is making that idea up. Dunno for sure


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## parrisw (May 7, 2010)

Zombiechopper said:


> I have tried to get an answer on the stuffers too on here. I do know my 357 spools up FAST and loves to hold the high rpm's. I don't think it lacks tourque as a trade off though as it cuts right with my 361 all day. I think the stuffers push the charge up faster so the fuel hits ignition point moving at a higher velocity and getting swirled around the combustion chamber for better burn....or maybe my arse is making that idea up. Dunno for sure



The stuffers reduce crankcase volume, and I think that helps create better top end, though I'm not 100% on that.


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## ronT2 (May 7, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> Too cool...thanks.
> 
> Now we need the timing #s for the 357 to compare.
> 
> ...




Now that you mention it I wonder if I made a typo in my notes. That blowdown # does seem short hopefully someone will be able to verify it.


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## Mastermind (May 9, 2010)

ronT2 said:


> Now that you mention it I wonder if I made a typo in my notes. That blowdown # does seem short hopefully someone will be able to verify it.



These are the numbers I got on the 359 without a base gasket. I also thought the blowdown should be higher but 17 degrees is what I found after checking it three times. This is the first time I've done a port timing workup, so this is probably way off. Help me out here. Does this sound right?

Exhaust 110* Duration 140*
Intake 75* Duration 150*
Transfers 127* Duration 106*
Blowdown 17*

This is my piston stop made from an old spark plug. After I knocked out the insulator, I used a 3/8 tap to thread it for a bolt.







This is what I came up with to attach the degree wheel (printed on thick paper after resizing). I removed the flywheel nut so I had some threads, then I put a short piece of rubber hose on the end of the crank.






Here the disc and paper wheel attached to a bolt ready to thread into the rubber hose.






Finally the degree wheel mounted on the saw, I just made a pointer from some stiff wire. Easy as pie. 






I checked my findings several times as I was sure I was doing something wrong.  After checking to be sure I got the same numbers before and after TDC I was fairly sure I was in the ballpark.  

Help me out guys, does this look right? Do these numbers sound correct? 

I'll do the 357 tomorrow to see how much different they are. My piston kits are on the way, so I need to get these cylinders cleaned up!


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## SawTroll (May 9, 2010)

minkota1 said:


> I was referring to the crankcase:greenchainsaw:



OK, then I agree!


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## SawTroll (May 9, 2010)

ronT2 said:


> Not rude at all…just more good info. I finally found the C3-EL42 on the Zama website tonight. They have the venturi diam. listed at 17mm. I couldn’t find a C3-EL carb with over a 15mm venturi until now. The HDA- 199 is listed at 16.66mm. With the mods that I’ve done to the saw I really didn’t want to go any smaller. .....



Afaik, it is normal that Zama rounds the venturi up to the closest mm when making a "substitute" for a given Walbro carb.


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## huskystihl (May 9, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> According to the IPL, the 357 and 359 are identical with the following exceptions.
> 
> 
> Different P&C
> ...



Well said and I agree. Maybe the 357 is quicker but i've comapared the 359 vs 361 and not enough cutting speed to make up for the price. I know i've ran the 357 but for the life if me can't remember it. My local husky shop will let a 359 gor for $500 and imo you can't beat the saw for that price. And weight is at all of no concern so anyone who argues that is wasting time.


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## parrisw (May 9, 2010)

huskystihl said:


> Well said and I agree. Maybe the 357 is quicker but i've comapared the 359 vs 361 and not enough cutting speed to make up for the price. I know i've ran the 357 but for the life if me can't remember it. My local husky shop will let a 359 gor for $500 and imo you can't beat the saw for that price. And weight is at all of no concern so anyone who argues that is wasting time.



I'd love to run the legendary MS361, but I don't think its worth its price. 357's aren't cheap either. Good thing some dumb arse straight gassed his new 357 then sold it to me for $80, put in a new OEM piston, and good to go! It sure is a real runner stock, I think anyway, finally runs like its supposed to with the new Zama carb.


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## ronT2 (May 9, 2010)

parrisw said:


> I'd love to run the legendary MS361, but I don't think its worth its price. 357's aren't cheap either. Good thing some dumb arse straight gassed his new 357 then sold it to me for $80, put in a new OEM piston, and good to go! It sure is a real runner stock, I think anyway, finally runs like its supposed to with the new Zama carb.



I'd love to find on of those deals. 


Mastermind....
We have some variation in numbers but at least our blowdown numbers agree. I used the old flashlight (torch) through the port while looking down the spark plug hole method to get my #s. It’ kind of tough to get your timing numbers @ .050 lift on a two stroke.  



ronT2 said:


> Mastermind, here’s what I got for timing #s.
> 
> Stock 2159 timing.
> Measurements without base gasket.
> ...





mastermind7864 said:


> These are the numbers I got on the 359 without a base gasket.
> 
> Exhaust 110* Duration 140*
> Intake 75* Duration 150*
> ...


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## parrisw (May 9, 2010)

ronT2 said:


> I'd love to find on of those deals.



Yup, I wouldn't mind a few more!! But they don't come around too often!


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## huskystihl (May 9, 2010)

parrisw said:


> I'd love to run the legendary MS361, but I don't think its worth its price. 357's aren't cheap either. Good thing some dumb arse straight gassed his new 357 then sold it to me for $80, put in a new OEM piston, and good to go! It sure is a real runner stock, I think anyway, finally runs like its supposed to with the new Zama carb.



I had a 361 for a short time and sold it while I could still get my money out of it. It really is a good saw just not one I have any use for. I do have a 359 on the shelf though that my dealer called and said hey I got a great deal for you on. Turns out the owner bought it on a thursday and saturday morning he straight gassed it, knowing it was entirely his fault he went back to the dealer bought another and told the shop to keep it and resell it out of anger at himself. The dealer tried telling him for a reasonable fee he could fix it but the guy refused, long story short he put a new piston and rings "no jug damage" and $300 I have a a brand new husky that i'm saving for my son for a later date.


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## Mastermind (May 9, 2010)

ronT2 said:


> I'd love to find on of those deals.
> 
> 
> Mastermind....
> We have some variation in numbers but at least our blowdown numbers agree. I used the old flashlight (torch) through the port while looking down the spark plug hole method to get my #s. It’ kind of tough to get your timing numbers @ .050 lift on a two stroke.



Our numbers aren't too far away from being the same, and yes we both find a short blowdown period. I look through the ex. port to see the transfers plus I made a flattened wire to stop the piston through the plug hole...works good, may or may not be very accurate. 

Later today I will check and post my findings on the 357. Maybe some guys that know what these numbers mean will chime in.


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## parrisw (May 9, 2010)

huskystihl said:


> I had a 361 for a short time and sold it while I could still get my money out of it. It really is a good saw just not one I have any use for. I do have a 359 on the shelf though that my dealer called and said hey I got a great deal for you on. Turns out the owner bought it on a thursday and saturday morning he straight gassed it, knowing it was entirely his fault he went back to the dealer bought another and told the shop to keep it and resell it out of anger at himself. The dealer tried telling him for a reasonable fee he could fix it but the guy refused, long story short he put a new piston and rings "no jug damage" and $300 I have a a brand new husky that i'm saving for my son for a later date.





mastermind7864 said:


> Our numbers aren't too far away from being the same, and yes we both find a short blowdown period. I look through the ex. port to see the transfers plus I made a flattened wire to stop the piston through the plug hole...works good, may or may not be very accurate.
> 
> Later today I will check and post my findings on the 357. Maybe some guys that know what these numbers mean will chime in.



I think a shorter blowdown is ok on saws with open transfers, just my guess, hopefully someone that knows more will chime in here.


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## SawTroll (May 9, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> Our numbers aren't too far away from being the same, and yes we both find a short blowdown period. I look through the ex. port to see the transfers plus I made a flattened wire to stop the piston through the plug hole...works good, may or may not be very accurate.
> 
> Later today I will check and post my findings on the 357. Maybe some guys that know what these numbers mean will chime in.



Remember that the 359 is designed to *not* perform too closely to the 357xp - just like the MS341 is designed to not perform like the MS361, and the 353 to not perform like the 346xp etc.......

The way it is done can vary, but the goal is the same.

The differences in production costs probably are much less than the differences in retail price reflects!


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## Mastermind (May 9, 2010)

SawTroll said:


> Remember that the 359 is designed to *not* perform too closely to the 357xp - just like the MS341 is designed to not perform like the MS361, and the 353 to not perform like the 346xp etc.......
> 
> The way it is done can vary, but the goal is the same.
> 
> The differences in production costs probably are much less than the differences in retail price reflects!



Very good points. My aim with this thread is to find and note the differences between the two models just to satisfy my curiosity. And to have some fun.

Thanks for helping out with this endeavor.


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## Woodman 460 (May 9, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> Very good points. My aim with this thread is to find and note the differences between the two models just to satisfy my curiosity. And to have some fun.
> 
> Thanks for helping out with this endeavor.



I agree. Hmmm, isn't Zama related to Stihl somehow? I could have sworn they bought a fair share of Zama! I could be wrong though.


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## Mastermind (May 9, 2010)

I just finished checking the port timing on the 357xp, I was surprised to find the exact same numbers.

Exhaust 110* Duration 140*
Intake 75* Duration 150*
Transfers 127* Duration 106*
Blowdown 17*

So far the only differences are the cylinders, (huge difference in the transfer ports), the crank stuffers, and of course the mufflers.

The 357xp is going back together completely stock, not even a muffler modd.

The 359etech is going under the knife, I hope to see it surpass the xp in every way. 

The parts should be hear in the later part of next week, but I'm going to the NC beach for 4 or 5 days, and the saws will have to wait.


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## parrisw (May 9, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> I just finished checking the port timing on the 357xp, I was surprised to find the exact same numbers.
> 
> Exhaust 110* Duration 140*
> Intake 75* Duration 150*
> ...



Not too hard to make a 359 run.


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## blsnelling (May 9, 2010)

Wow, those are some crazy port timing numbers. I've never seen an exhaust port that low. Close, but not that low.


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## Mastermind (May 10, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Wow, those are some crazy port timing numbers. I've never seen an exhaust port that low. Close, but not that low.



I was hoping you would look at these numbers. Do you think maybe I'm doing it wrong? I've checked several times, and it's the same on both ends of the stroke so I'm pretty sure of them.


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## ronT2 (May 10, 2010)

It’s interesting that the stock timing numbers you got are exactly the same. But they are also very close to the numbers Brad got on a stock NE346

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=118591&highlight=port+timing


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## Mastermind (May 10, 2010)

ronT2 said:


> It’s interesting that the stock timing numbers you got are exactly the same. But they are also very close to the numbers Brad got on a stock NE346
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=118591&highlight=port+timing



I'm glad you dug this up as I have been wondering if I had made a mistake, this is so close that I can be sure I'm at least doing the process correctly.

I've got the 357 cylinder cleaned up and the parts are on the way for both saws. 

I will wait until I have the piston in hand before I make any plans for the porting on the 359.


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## outdoortype (May 10, 2010)

This is kind of off the beatin path but how much increase in RPMs does one typically see with a modded muffler on the 359? I remembering reading a few years back that two fairly experienced saw mechanics opined that 13500 was too fast and they could blow up real easy. Naturally, they were referring to stock saws. But for the same token, I've seen Brad run a 359 on youtube that was turning 14,000 RPM with a 20" bar and many others (Timberwolf for example) even higher. Just wondering if the muffler mod allows enough heat to escape that the saw can tolerate higher RPMs?


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## Mastermind (May 10, 2010)

outdoortype said:


> This is kind of off the beatin path but how much increase in RPMs does one typically see with a modded muffler on the 359? I remembering reading a few years back that two fairly experienced saw mechanics opined that 13500 was too fast and they could blow up real easy. Naturally, they were referring to stock saws. But for the same token, I've seen Brad run a 359 on youtube that was turning 14,000 RPM with a 20" bar and many others (Timberwolf for example) even higher. Just wondering if the muffler mod allows enough heat to escape that the saw can tolerate higher RPMs?




Unloaded RPM increase is kind of a by product of a more powerful engine the way I understand things. Holding a higher RPM in the cut under load is what we are after.


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## J.Walker (May 11, 2010)

Well looks like my replacement for my 357 will be another 357.
Had a long look at the 2159/359.
Sure would like to see a picture of these stuffers that live in the crankcase?


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## Mastermind (May 11, 2010)

J.Walker said:


> Well looks like my replacement for my 357 will be another 357.
> Had a long look at the 2159/359.
> Sure would like to see a picture of these stuffers that live in the crankcase?



I'll try to get some pics of those stuffers posted tomorrow.

From what I've learned here, without porting there is no way a 359 can keep up with the 357. But I believe after a good woods port there will be a big difference in the performance of the 359. I'm going to the beach for a few days, but when I get back I will get these two together and we'll find out.


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## nmurph (May 12, 2010)

which beach?


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## ronT2 (May 12, 2010)

I don’t know if this will help any but this is what the lower transfers on my 2159 looked like. Since this picture was taken I’ve straightened the sides out a little more and widened the intake. I also widened the upper rear transfers toward the intake.


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## Mastermind (May 12, 2010)

nmurph said:


> which beach?



My mother lives in Cape Carteret, NC. It's about 5 minutes from Emerald Island, and some of the nicest beaches on the east coast, IMHO.




ronT2 said:


> I don’t know if this will help any but this is what the lower transfers on my 2159 looked like. Since this picture was taken I’ve straightened the sides out a little more and widened the intake. I also widened the upper rear transfers toward the intake.



Yes, of course it helps. This is the first pic I've seen of a 359 jug after opening the transfers. I intend to use a 357 base gasket as a template and port match the base of the jug to the cases.

Thanks for helping out with this thread, I have so much to learn and need all the help I can get.

I received my ultrasonic parts cleaner yesterday afternoon...the 357 jug is taking a bath in it right now...


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## ronT2 (May 12, 2010)

Just a word of caution. Use the base gasket as a guide but don’t go too crazy with the grinder or you run the risk of breaking through the corner where the transfer covers meet the cylinder. Also be careful around the lower screw holes.


Here are a couple old threads on porting a 359. Some of the pics are missing but they might be worth a read through.

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=90913&highlight=359+372

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=107191


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## Mastermind (May 12, 2010)

ronT2 said:


> Just a word of caution. Use the base gasket as a guide but don’t go too crazy with the grinder or you run the risk of breaking through the corner where the transfer covers meet the cylinder. Also be careful around the lower screw holes.
> 
> 
> Here are a couple old threads on porting a 359. Some of the pics are missing but they might be worth a read through.
> ...





Wow Ron thanks for the heads up. As you can tell I'm a newbie at the saw building game. I'll be careful and most definitely will take lots of pics and report on my progress.


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## Mastermind (May 31, 2010)

Well this comparison didn't work out too well. The piston for the 359 is still on backorder, and the 357 is already back with it's owner, and running very well. 

I got around to cleaning up the cylinder to this 359 today and under all the aluminum transfer was a deep groove above the exhaust port. 

I'm gonna have to shelf this saw until I can find a cylinder that is within my meager budget.

I've got a 046 I'm rebuilding too and parts add up quick... if anyone has a usable 359 jug they would part with I could sure use one...


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## Woodman 460 (Aug 22, 2010)

Thx for the tips and warning about gringing the base too much. I found this thread helpful and interesting.


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## Mastermind (Aug 22, 2010)

Funny this thread should pop up, I ended up using the jug with a scratch. Ported the snot out of it. It has great compression and runs like a beast.


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## Woodman 460 (Aug 22, 2010)

Neat, i'm glad it worked out for you. I am contemplating doing a Husky 353 and have been reading all kinds of stuff about porting and the like. These threads are really helpful.


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## Jetdeck (Sep 18, 2010)

*357 > 359*

I've been looking around for somebody to do a woods port on a 359. Does anybody know of somebody on the west coast (Northern California/Nevada) who can do a good port?


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## J.Walker (Sep 18, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> Funny this thread should pop up, I ended up using the jug with a scratch. Ported the snot out of it. It has great compression and runs like a beast.




Well back a few months ago I bought a new 357. Then there was a ad on CL. for a 359, so I bought that saw too! This 359 is a great running saw. The 357 is slower but still not broke in all the way. Going to take both saws to a GTG and see what others think.


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## sunfish (Sep 18, 2010)

J.Walker said:


> Well back a few months ago I bought a new 357. Then there was a ad on CL. for a 359, so I bought that saw too! This 359 is a great running saw. The 357 is slower but still not broke in all the way. Going to take both saws to a GTG and see what others think.



Your 357 should rip! Dealers usually set them rich and they need leaned out after break-in.


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## Mastermind (Sep 18, 2010)

J.Walker said:


> Well back a few months ago I bought a new 357. Then there was a ad on CL. for a 359, so I bought that saw too! This 359 is a great running saw. The 357 is slower but still not broke in all the way. Going to take both saws to a GTG and see what others think.



If both saws are bone stock the 357 should be a bit stronger than the 359. The 357 has a less restrictive muffler and better factory porting. The 357 also has crank stuffers that reduce crankcase volume and produce a higher power band.

After a good woods port and a muffler mod the 359 can be made into a really strong running saw. At least that has been my experience.


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## 814hammer (Mar 10, 2012)

[SUP]​[/SUP]


Mastermind said:


> If both saws are bone stock the 357 should be a bit stronger than the 359. The 357 has a less restrictive muffler and better factory porting. The 357 also has crank stuffers that reduce crankcase volume and produce a higher power band.
> 
> After a good woods port and a muffler mod the 359 can be made into a really strong running saw. At least that has been my experience.



You say the 357 has a les restricted muffler I just did a muff mod on a 359 and just got a 357 and the mufflers are the same the 359 was a 03 middle and the 357 is a 00 model 
Also have a question I don't have calipers or mics to chech the squash so I got this 357 does anyone think it would not be safe to take out the base gasket without checking this is an old thread but new on her and don't know how to start new ones thanks guys and would it do me any good to just polish the tranfer ports will this help also polish the top of piston and exsaust thanks


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## SLorenz (Apr 6, 2012)

Tell me if read this thread right?

In summery:

1)Mufflers are the same and both are in need of a muffler mod

2) timing is the same in both saws

3) squish is the same

4) 357xp has crank case stuffers that increases velocity in favor of volume.

**5**) Open up the easily accessible transfer ports on the 359 and it will run right with a 357xp? Maybe even better with the extra added crank case volume.


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## SLorenz (Apr 6, 2012)

A 2nd look at Husqvarna's site and I see a displacement difference in favor of the 359.

357xp = 56.5cc
359. = 59cc


I'm going to dig into my 359 and I am feeling real good about it if I don't have to widen the intake or exhaust nor machine the jug or make a popup piston to get results.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2012)

Most 359s have a cat muffler......a real ##### to mod.


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## SLorenz (Apr 6, 2012)

My 359 does have the cat muffler.

Though my CS 400 and both I my cs330t had cats as well. I didn't think those were difficult to bore out. It did eat up a good 1" bit after it was all said an done


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2012)

SLorenz said:


> My 359 does have the cat muffler.
> 
> Though my CS 400 and both I my cs330t had cats as well. I didn't think those were difficult to bore out. It did eat up a good 1" bit after it was all said an done



I cut a hole for a 3/4" pipe through the muffler shell and the partition.......braze it in and cut wood...


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## MGoBlue (Dec 4, 2014)

Damn  missing pics!!


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## sunfish (Dec 4, 2014)

MGoBlue said:


> Damn  missing pics!!


Yeah, this was a good thread!


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## cgraham1 (Dec 5, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Most 359s have a cat muffler......a real ##### to mod.





Mastermind said:


> I cut a hole for a 3/4" pipe through the muffler shell and the partition.......braze it in and cut wood...


What about this type of mod?


Mastermind said:


> See below...



I poked a hole in the area behind the divider.







Squared it up a bit.....






Smoothed out the rough edges and flattened the seam.






Added a piece of bicycle frame.











Did a little brazing......






.....and added some paint.


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## JC360 (Dec 5, 2014)

Daaanng that's a good lookin muff!
Might just have to try that.


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## Chris_In_VT (Dec 5, 2014)

On my 359 Etech, I hacked out the pipe that comes from the front half of the muffler, so the exhaust can flow right into the top exhaust port. also added a 2nd port on the side.
Removing the pipe was not easy without splitting the muffler.


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## sunfish (Dec 5, 2014)

Nice mod Clint! But I feel like there is a little more to be gained by removing the baffle and pipe. The aftermarket mufflers are an open can and work well. & just found out there is a oem euro muff that has no baffle.


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## Chris_In_VT (Dec 5, 2014)

sunfish said:


> just found out there is a oem euro muff that has no baffle.



THAT is interesting!


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## sunfish (Dec 5, 2014)

Chris_In_VT said:


> THAT is interesting!


The part # was posted in another thread, but don't remember which one.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Dec 5, 2014)

sunfish said:


> Nice mod Clint! But I feel like there is a little more to be gained by removing the baffle and pipe. The aftermarket mufflers are an open can and work well. & just found out there is a oem euro muff that has no baffle.



I think randy did that ?..i sorta remember the thread


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## sunfish (Dec 5, 2014)

Did we ever figure out if the stuffers in the 357 made much difference???


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## cgraham1 (Dec 5, 2014)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I think randy did that ?..i sorta remember the thread


Yep. It was Randy that did that mod. I had to take it out of the quotes so I could post it full size.


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## EvilRoySlade (Dec 22, 2014)

sunfish said:


> Did we ever figure out if the stuffers in the 357 made much difference???



I'm gonna have to re learn all my 2T stuff. Dirt bikes, stuffers tend to be for crank inertia though they do take up volume also. Do these have a little mass to them or just thin a space filling?


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## Ronaldo (Dec 22, 2014)

Stuffers are just thin space fillers, I believe and They do tend to make a big difference.
I have a 359 w/a 357 cylinder and it made the saw a bit faster, but not a dramatic difference. I have been told that the stuffers would help me to see the real performance between a 357 and a 359.


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## Homelite410 (Dec 22, 2014)

My 359 mufflers.









Ronaldo has the top one!


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