# Kicked Some Ash Today



## hautions11 (Nov 19, 2006)

I got the 084 back, so I decided to attack a little more Ash. I have two logs partially done in the back yard that I wanted to finish. They are now light enough to block-up and get a little help from gravity.







The first board off the larger log is really nice. 24" wide and very clear. Next to this board you can see the start of my stickered pile with 10 boards in it already,






Four more boards pretty much finished off the two logs I have been working on. The longer ones are 8 ' and the other two are 7.5'







I have two more logs staged up but both of them have some issues. The larger of the two has two huge branches that I have cut off. It may generate some spectacular grain patterns. The other one is only about 12" in diameter. If I get enough wood from the balance of the logs, I may leave it for fire wood.






I cut another dead ash down in my neighbors yard and saved the bottom 8' of it for milling. It looks very clean, so that was my next set-up.






This log is sitting 200 feet from the other tree, so I do not have to carry the 084 very far. I will continue the pics in the next thread.


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## hautions11 (Nov 19, 2006)

*Kicked some ash Cont.*

I always love the first cut off of a log. This one yielded some beautifull wood. There were almost no knots or blemishes at all. The widest point in this log is a little over 19". I was able to time some of these cuts and they ranged from 4 to 5 minutes. The set up is the 084, a 32" bar converted from 404 to 3/8 by changing the bar tip and Stihl RM chain with the safety links ground down and the cutters ground to a 10 degree angle.






Here are some action shots through one cut off of this log. Early in the cut.






Nearing the end of the cut throwing a pretty good rooster tail.






And the part of the cut we all love, breaking out on the end of the log, so we can finally stop pushing.







Here is the board that came off of this cut. They are getting nicer and nicer as I go down through the log.







Continued...


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## hautions11 (Nov 19, 2006)

*Cont.*

Here is all that is left at the end. The initial cut still hooked to my 2 X 4 cutting guide and the sliver at the bottom of the log. This log yielded eight really nice boards overall. With a chain sharpening break and a couple of water stops it was less the 2 hours start to finish.






The final score for the day was 14 boards and a little over 150 bd ft. My pile will have about 250 bd ft in it right now. The next step is to open up the log with the two big branches comming out of it. Until I open it up it is hard to say what is in there. Other then that log I only have a 4-5' section of the trunk that is any good. The nice 8' trunk section has a 4' long rotten area caused by a large hole in the side of the tree. Look at the log in the upper right section of this pic and you get a good idea.






A fun day overall.


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## Ekka (Nov 19, 2006)

Nice pics, looks good. Job well done.

Just be aware when embedding a series of pics like that you may drop ya views and comments a lot coz the sum total of all those pics was 1.3 meg to download. I run broadband and noticed it took a while but many others would have just hit the back button.


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## johnb (Nov 19, 2006)

*Love the post!!*

hi love the post and the photo's i got regular old dial up and it took a while but worth it. i have a Woodbug chainsaw mill and been milling for about 4 years off and on. i need to get motivated to make some barn rafter material and I think you may have got me off the couch. thanks keep up the milling. The Hoosier


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## CaseyForrest (Nov 19, 2006)

Nice work there Hautions. 

Do you notice a difference in speed between your 064 and the 084? Can you run the chain on your 084 more agressive than on your 064?

Im still waiting for the free logs you all keep talking about to come my way.


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## hautions11 (Nov 19, 2006)

Thanks John and Ekka. Ekka I knock my pictures down to ~150 KB, so 10 of them should be 1.5 Meg not Gig, unless I am missing something. I can make the pics about 72 kb by limiting them to 5 X 7 image size rather then 8 X 10. Last post, I split the posts up, but I found they quickly were seperated and most people never saw the second post.

John, get off of that couch! If this fat old man can do it, you can too. I have not had dial up in forever, just as a point of reference, how long is a long time to wait for these pics to download? Where are you in Indiana?


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## woodshop (Nov 19, 2006)

Well... at the bottom of your post you say "Just a novice, so never listen to me!"... but from the looks of your posts lately, I'd say you better change that to something that more closely resembles the truth. You seem to have gotten csm milling down pat. I see you on your knees though, and cringe. I used to be able to do that, and sometimes still do, but I pay a price. My knees are banged up from years of doing that fixing cars and whatever else. 

4-5 min/8ft comes to around 3 sec/inch. Nice... I can get that on 12 inch hardwood with my 395xp, but wider stuff takes longer, more like 4-5 seconds per inch. With your bigger saw, you are obviously faster on the wide slices. Proving again what has been said over and over here, that with a csm there is simply no substitute for raw power. That little extra power of the 084 over the 395xp shines through.

Only thing I would do differently from what I see in the pics, is trim off that bark before stickering, as that's where the majority of the bugs and their eggs are. Sure would hate to see that nice pile riddled with beetles next summer. 

Where is your help this time... everybody conveniently had homework to do?opcorn: 
Nice post, thanks.


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## dustytools (Nov 19, 2006)

No way I was gonna hit the back button. Those are some beautiful pics Hautions, As always. Question about your guide rails, How do you adjust the length on them? Or do you try to cut the log to fit? Just curious. Great job.


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## hautions11 (Nov 19, 2006)

Casey.

The speed difference is amazing. If I have a 4 minute cut with the 084, the 064 would be almost 8. The chains are the same 10 degree grind. The 064 actually uses Bailey's and the 084 has Stihl RM with my 10 degree grind on it. The drop in speed while in the cut is different. The 084 maintains chain speed even when pushing pretty hard. The 064 you often have to hold back a little to keep chain speed up. When you get down to 10-12 inches the 064 runs pretty quick and feels like the 084 at 20-22. I still have not played with chain grinds much. I remember somebody trying to make the special grind by removing the top of the cutters, but got rough cuts. I really need to get this ash drying so I can use it, so I have not been experimenting too much with these logs.

Free logs, I definately hve more then I can cut. The bigs oak at the lake still has 15-20 boards wrth left. A neighbor down there wants me to take 2 cherry's. Keep your eyes peeled and they will show up.


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## hautions11 (Nov 19, 2006)

WS my help was out buying, buying ,buying,....dresses for the winter snow ball!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sure she would have rather been eating sawdust while milling. (Yea right)

I do see a big difference between 064-084. It is the torque of the big saw that gets the fast cuts. I have had 2 knee surgeries, but I don't mind kneeling if the ground is soft.

I did coax Max out to take the action shots.


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## CaseyForrest (Nov 19, 2006)

Good deal Im pondering either a ripsaw or an 880 when taxes come back. Still unsure which way to go.

That was me that played with those chains buy cutting some tops off. Dont let my experience discourage you from trying the same. The chain I modified did cut quite a bit faster, and Im sure if everything had been equal between all the cutters, the cut would have been allot smoother. Ill dig up the thread.


Here ya go...

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=36369&highlight=power+dremel

That is granberg style, and I know if I had spent more time on the chain, it would cut just fine.


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## hautions11 (Nov 19, 2006)

*Guide rails*

Dusty, I can not adjust my guide rails. The hteory is you put multiple counter bored holes at various lengths and move the brackets to suit the log. I have not gotten around to that yet. and my boards are too short. If you look at the pic, one end is 8" short of the end of the log. I lag that end down with wood screws. I need 10' boards and holes every 3-4 inches to make them work correctly. Right now when i get to the end of my rails, I sweep one side of the bar to the end of the log and then sweep the other side out using no rails and guide it by hand. the cut is a little rougher but it works OK. too busy milling to work on the equipment.


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## computeruser (Nov 19, 2006)

Great pics, as always! Keep on sharing them, they're really quite motivational - as much as I like cutting up firewood, the idea of getting lumber and building something useful and beautiful is quite tempting.

Maybe santa will bring me a mill this year, considering I've already got the saws for it.


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## hautions11 (Nov 19, 2006)

Casey, I tought you did the chain. This winter when there is more time in the shop, I definately want to try that. I have guy at work with a pro grinder that will do my chains for $4. I showed him the sketch and he said he would like to try it. I should give him one next week.

I really don't know about the ripsaw vs big saw debate. I love the WS set-up and it seems to cut real fast and uses a small saw. A lot more prep, but a lot less wasted wood. I am by nature a real cheap a$$ and I have $395 in my saw and $100 in my mill, both ebay items. I saw a ripsaw for $700 a few months ago on ebay, but they don't come up very often. I do this to suport projects, so after the ash I will be in the shop making stuff rather then milling, but I like the ability to be able to do it.

Computeruser, I thought Casey would have converted you to the darkside already. As you can see in the first pic, I cut a little firewood too. That is where the rest of the ash and oak ended up. I always hated cutting the 10-20' of straight trunk in to firewood.


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## woodshop (Nov 19, 2006)

hautions11 said:


> I really don't know about the ripsaw vs big saw debate. I love the WS set-up and it seems to cut real fast and uses a small saw. A lot more prep, but a lot less wasted wood.


Well... as I use both the csm AND Ripsaw together, as I think they compliment each other extremely well, I can say the hautions is pretty much on target. That being, it eventually comes down to how much $$$ you want to lay out, and what return you want to get back from that. If you do it hautions way, used big saw, you will definitely have a mill that is WAY cheaper than a Ripsaw. If you go out and buy an 084 or equivalent and a csm brand new, then the up front money not that far apart. But from my perspective, it's kindof apples and oranges comparing a csm and Ripsaw. Each has it's niche, just as the Logosol equipment does. Having a Ripsaw, I wouldn't slice up the whole log with just my csm, as the Ripsaw cuts much faster, gives me smoother cuts, and I get a extra board for every 5 my csm alone would give me. On the other hand, squaring up that log into a cant so all my Ripsaw cut boards are trimmed and ready to sticker is MUCH easier to do with a csm. Think of a Ripsaw as a band mill that you can bring to the log. Not as powerful as a big bandmill, slower cutting, but still having some of the advantages of a bandmill (4-500 bd ft in 6 hours cutting when everything is dialed in, smoother faster cuts...) However, unless you plan on milling thousands of bd ft, as I have and plan on continuing to do, you might not want to dish out that cash any more than you would consider buying a larger bandmill on tracks. Example... for around $500 hautions is milling lumber.


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## oldsaw (Nov 19, 2006)

You're kind of telling my story, but you got in just a bit cheaper than I did...maybe. I paid $425 for my 066 to my door, and $130 for the Alaskan (new), but got two "free" 36" bars, one of which was a Stihl .404, the other a 3/8" Oregon. The 36" Oregon was worn when I got it, but still has a little life left as my "little" milling bar. 

Instead of the rails, I use a 2x8x8' and limit my log length to 7.5 ft, coincidentally, the amount of space I had available in my old garage for the wood rack. I want to do the Uni-Strut thing like Casey, but just can't part with the $80 right now...too cheap, and too many other things needing money. Although I might change his design a bit and buy only two rails.

Again, nice work. One thing that I do, on bigger logs especially, is to put a couple of wedges in the kerf 2-3 feet before the end of the cut. Keeps the board from falling on the bar at the end of the cut, so you get cleaner end cuts. Tuck them in your back pocket while you saw. I agree with Woodshop, you have earned your chops. You are a "no nothing" no more.

Mark


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## 046 (Nov 19, 2006)

thanks for sharing... just missed an low hours 084.
MS880 is way out of my budget. 

what model chaw saw mill are you using? 
nice results! what percentage is correct equipment VS operator skills?


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## hautions11 (Nov 19, 2006)

046 my o84 is about 14 yrs old. It was a tree service saw that was still owned by the original buyer. It was used only occasionally and had a new Stihl piston rings and bearing installed recently. Operator skill is not a huge percentage of the equation. A good first cut is importantant, but it is not that hard. I do like the 084 as it is relatively inexpensive, has the manual oiler, and is pretty available in the market place.
My long bar came from Dean at Wash hot saws($20 + ship) and I found a bunch (12) RM 32" chains on ebay for around $100.(brand new) A local guy puts the 5-10 degree grind on them and I am milling.


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## woodshop (Nov 19, 2006)

046 said:


> what percentage is correct equipment VS operator skills?


I'll take a stab at that one... my experience has been that once you get the equipment dialed in and get past that initial learning curve, 
those first few runs down the log where you are clueless and don't know what to expect, which with the help of people on AS is shortened greatly, then the rest comes with common sense. This stuff is relatively easy from a skills perspective. So... I'd say 80/20, maybe even 90/10.


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## hautions11 (Nov 19, 2006)

Oldsaw, I tell your story a lot! We both sound inherantly cheap. I think the investment needs to match the return, just like in business. I do not do this for a living, but what can I get to minimize my investment and minimize my time. I believe you have made the time limitation comment a few times in the past. 


I usually have a wedge at the end of the log, it does not show up in most of my pics.


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## oldsaw (Nov 19, 2006)

hautions11 said:


> Oldsaw, I tell your story a lot! We both sound inherantly cheap. I think the investment needs to match the return, just like in business. I do not do this for a living, but what can I get to minimize my investment and minimize my time. I believe you have made the time limitation comment a few times in the past.
> 
> 
> I usually have a wedge at the end of the log, it does not show up in most of my pics.



And I could stick to the story until I bought the 3120. But, still, my cost per bft is less than $1 for equipment, and shrinking as often as I can get it to. My "cheapness" claim can remain intact. You, my friend, can take the cheapness crown...but that's a good thing.

I put one on each side to support the whole board. Your way seems to work fine.

Mark


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## Ekka (Nov 19, 2006)

Correct, 1.3mb, my bad, fixed now.


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## computeruser (Nov 19, 2006)

hautions11 said:


> Computeruser, I thought Casey would have converted you to the darkside already. As you can see in the first pic, I cut a little firewood too. That is where the rest of the ash and oak ended up. I always hated cutting the 10-20' of straight trunk in to firewood.



Oh, I've been converted. Just haven't taken the plunge yet since I don't have enough time to do the things I'm already into, to say nothing for taking on a new hobby! I should have something set up by the spring, though.


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## t_andersen (Nov 19, 2006)

Hi Hautions,

Nice work that you've done. I don't want to be negative, I'm mostly asking this question to learn from fellow millers:

It looks to me like the wood is very irregular, so that it is likely to warp during the drying process when sawn like this? Shouldn't it have been quarter sawn?

Again, I am not suggesting that you have done it wrong, I just want to learn from any replies to the question...

Regards
Tom


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## hautions11 (Nov 19, 2006)

No ofense taken Tom. I am always looking for input. Befor I cut these trees down I actually asked the same question. Is ash tough to dry, does it tend to warp etc. The concensous was it tends to lay pretty flat and dry reasonably well. I would have guessed that from the dry ash I have seen, but wasn't sure. I am planning on stickering and weighing down the pile of ash. Do you have some experience that ash is a problem to dry??? Thanks.

Larry


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## woodshop (Nov 19, 2006)

Ash is one of the easier woods that I have dried after milling. As for quartersawing for stability, as was said before, you have to have a pretty good sized log to quartersaw without either wasting a LOT of lumber or at best ending up with a lot of smaller width boards. I generally don't quartersaw unless it's over 20 inches, which gives you 8-9 inch wide quartersawn boards to start, and they get thinner from there. Quartersawing involves a lot more setting up. On small mills like ours it's almost twice the work because you are flipping the cant (or quarter log) every slice or two. With me, it's often just a case of not having enough time to do that, so I compromise, and cut through and through, which gives you SOME quartersawn and riftsawn anyway.


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## oldsaw (Nov 19, 2006)

t_andersen said:


> Hi Hautions,
> 
> Nice work that you've done. I don't want to be negative, I'm mostly asking this question to learn from fellow millers:
> 
> ...



Tom, ash is very stable, as has been mentioned, but it also makes some very dramatic cathedral grain patterns, that can be very beautiful. Dad has milled hundreds of feet of ash, not handled it like he should while drying, but still comes out with wonderful boards that are very straight. Ash is one of those woods that I wouldn't quartersaw.

Questions are never a bad thing, it's how we all learn.

Mark


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 20, 2006)

Good looking lumber. I finally got out and did some serious cutting with my 084 this weekend. She should be good and broken in now. 

Next project... milling the 20+ logs I've accumulated. Stand by for PICS!!!:biggrinbounce2:


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 20, 2006)

woodshop said:


> I'll take a stab at that one... my experience has been that once you get the equipment dialed in and get past that initial learning curve,
> those first few runs down the log where you are clueless and don't know what to expect, which with the help of people on AS is shortened greatly, then the rest comes with common sense. This stuff is relatively easy from a skills perspective. So... I'd say 80/20, maybe even 90/10.



Ditto. Learning curve can be greatly reduced by reading posts here.


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## Adkpk (Nov 20, 2006)

I agree with ash as a stable wood. I've been throwing around a board I dried correctly, but not for a real long time, now for months. It's been out in the rain a number of times and it's still straight as the first day I took it off the stickered pile. I haven't found a use for it because I used it as my v rail board for my mini mill for a while and couldn't get the screws out of it when I was done with it. I had to drill them out and leave the broken off screws in the hard hard wood. It's tough to cut it for firewood knowing this but man, it makes for a real good firewood too. 

Real nice grain on that ash, hautions. Mine was all blond no variation like you got there.


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## hautions11 (Nov 21, 2006)

The boards I have peaked at in my stickered pile have already gotten a lot lighter then the as cut pieces. I am looking for a nice light wood for my cabinet project, so I believe these will really fit the bill. I have 250 bd ft and my project takes 125, but with waste, cutting out knots etc, I am not sure I have enough. I want to cut at least 100 more bd ft to be safe. The problem with this project is it takes fairly long (68") knot free pieces. If I was making library tables 4' long this would not be nearly as hard. The front doors for my cabinet need to be especially nice. It is kind of fun looking at a board coming of the log thinking, look at that perfect 1 X8 and 1X6 that will make part of my doors. Kind of sick at what I get excited about sometimes.


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## woodshop (Nov 21, 2006)

hautions11 said:


> It is kind of fun looking at a board coming of the log thinking, look at that perfect 1 X8 and 1X6 that will make part of my doors. Kind of sick at what I get excited about sometimes.


Well if you're sick then I'm terminally ill. I not only look at boards coming off the saw thinking what I'll make with them, I sometimes even grab my red lumber crayon and mark that on the boards so I can find them months or even years later.


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## hautions11 (Nov 21, 2006)

WS, I saw red numbers and letters on some of your white oak a few weeks ago. I assumed it was some kind of a secret code only you could understand.


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## woodshop (Nov 21, 2006)

hautions11 said:


> WS, I saw red numbers and letters on some of your white oak a few weeks ago. I assumed it was some kind of a secret code only you could understand.


HA!!! ... yes ...many have tried to crack it, but none have suceeded to date.

naaahhhh... my convention is simple, every board gets two letters and 4 numbers as it comes off the log. Two letters are species, OA for oak, CH for cherry, PO for poplar etc followed my month and year. OA 08-06 would be oak milled August 2006. If I don't do that, it's REAL easy to get piles of lumber and especially single boards that have lost their way, mixed up. Rough milled ash looks a lot like oak at first glance... maple looks like sweetgum etc etc. Only time I deviate from that convention is with white oak. I put a W in front of the OA. (red is more common here, so OA alone is red oak). Also, if milling wood for somebody that wants something made from THAT log, I might put the initials of that person on the board so I can find their exact wood later. Usually though, its just the 2 letters and 4 numbers. Super secret code


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## hautions11 (Dec 30, 2006)

Since I want to use this ash in a project this winter, I decided to get it kiln dried. I dropped off 300 bd ft today and ran in to a real interesting guy to boot. He built his own 3000 Bd ft kiln to go with his nice Woodmizer mill. He lives 20 minutes outside of town and has some acerage in woods and farmland. He buys a lot of his logs, saws and dries them and sells the lumber, retail to woodworkers etc. He had a beautifull 28" cherry log on the mill when I was there. Very clear and he said the log cost him $400. Ouch. At a retail selling price of $4 Bd ft and a 350 bd ft yield, that is $1200+. The guy had a real neat side business and is drying my ash for 25 cents a foot. I don't know the going rate, but that seemed reasonable to me.


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## OZDOG (Dec 30, 2006)

great pics ! the ash looks beautifull , Worth getting on your knees for!


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## hautions11 (Dec 31, 2006)

Here are the last few boards, cut from the ash. These are out of a large trunk section with 2 huge branches coming off of it. I was really unsure of the quality from this section, but it turned out really nice. The first half of the log was great and the second half yielded pieces that were nice in the middle with some defects on the ends. Here is the last 35 Bd Ft.









A little closer shot of some of the interesting grain.








I have 5 more 8 to 9' logs that a tree service brought me. I am debating on what I should do with them.


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## dustytools (Dec 31, 2006)

Some nice looking boards there Hautions. As for the rest of the logs, you could just ship them to me if you are still undecided as to what to do with them.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## hautions11 (Dec 31, 2006)

Dusty,

Your bat blanks are in the kiln next week with the rest of my ash. We'll have to fugure out how to get them south.


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## dustytools (Dec 31, 2006)

I might just have to come pay you a visit sometime when things cool down here a bit.


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## woodshop (Dec 31, 2006)

hautions11 said:


> I have 5 more 8 to 9' logs that a tree service brought me. I am debating on what I should do with them.



Easy... rent a 5 ton flatbed, somehow get those logs up onto that flatbed, and jump on the interstate heading EAST. I'll take it from there.


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