# Crooked cut due to teeth length or rakers height?



## jdind (Dec 7, 2015)

Hi everyone,
I've read on a few different websites that the reason a chain will cut crooked is because either the left or right set of teeth is longer than the other (see http://www.madsens1.com/bnc_cut_pull.htm). But what if the rakers have been filed to the proper height for each set of teeth?
From what I understand, having different rakers 'depths' would mean that one set of teeth takes a thicker chip out of the wood on each pass, leading to a crooked cut. Conversely, proper rakers height would ensure a straight cut no matter what the length of the teeth.
What do you all think? Is it the length of the teeth, or the rakers height that's important for a straight cut?


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## Whitty21 (Dec 7, 2015)

It's likely a bit of both. It is important if you are hand filing to learn your strength and pressure on each side of the bar so you can aim to keep the teeth as level as possible. As you sharpen a chain further back, the teeth become progressively shorter, hence why your depth gauges need filed down. Rakers is an old terminology for similar chain construction, however their main focus was clearing sawdust, acting as a rake. 

In short you just need some time with a file and a few chains, I don't hesitate to throw new chains on saws if it starts getting a bit out of hand. I have had chains that look perfectly level and depth gauges set correctly that just insist on cutting circles, so I am no real expert either


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## Zale (Dec 7, 2015)

Neither, your bar is bent.


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 7, 2015)

Your bar groove may also be worn 8 thou or more beyond drive link width. Try the next gauge up.


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## Whitty21 (Dec 7, 2015)

Too much cutting on crooked chains can also cause your bar to wear more on one side than the other, letting the chain rock over to one side


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## Oldmaple (Dec 7, 2015)

Probably the teeth. I've had chains start cutting crooked and put a new chain on and it will cut true again so it wasn't the bar. I have a hard time getting through a whole chain, sharpening by hand and have it keep cutting straight (I might get halfway through). I blame it on the eyes getting old. I'll just true it up on a grinder and cut away.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 7, 2015)

Everything is relevant,,,
Jeff


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## BC WetCoast (Dec 7, 2015)

There are lots of things that can cause the saw to cut crooked
- uneven filed cutters - either the angle or the length of the cutter
- uneven depth guages
- unsquare bar - the shoulders of the groove are at different heights
- bent bar
- bar groove worn too wide

From what I've been told, you can compensate for uneven cutters by filing the depth guages. I try to make sure each tooth is the same size as the one infront and behind, so that when those teeth are in the cut they will cut straight.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 7, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> There are lots of things that can cause the saw to cut crooked
> - uneven filed cutters - either the angle or the length of the cutter
> - uneven depth guages
> - unsquare bar - the shoulders of the groove are at different heights
> ...



That is just what I said,, it is all relevant,,
Jeff


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## Sagetown (Dec 7, 2015)

If it just started after U've sharpened the teeth, and U know the teeth looked good. Check your Rakers first. If you've been abusing your saw, or have loaned it out to a friend, you may have a problem that would fit the previous posters statements.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 7, 2015)

omg,,,,
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 7, 2015)

A guy thinking he knows how to sharpen a chain is very common,,except they don't,
If they are right handed, that side may be ok, but if he uses he right hand to do the other side also,
he may not have the same angle and pressure.
If they are left handed, just reverse what side I said.
Guys need to know that with each stroke, they are loosing size and angle.
But a guy that has been sharping by hand for 38 years is 'priceless',,
Yup
Jeff


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## chipper1 (Dec 7, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> A guy thinking he knows how to sharpen a chain is very common,,except they don't, Thats probably me.
> But a guy that has been sharping by hand for 38 years is 'priceless',, I can't afford priceless, anyone with only 30yrs help a guy out.
> Yup
> Jeff


I've also noticed that hand placement on the saw has a lot to do with it. I always cut crooked with a stihl LOL.


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## Sagetown (Dec 8, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> A guy thinking he knows how to sharpen a chain is very common,,except they don't,
> If they are right handed, that side may be ok, but if he uses he right hand to do the other side also,
> he may not have the same angle and pressure.
> If they are left handed, just reverse what side I said.
> ...


I've been at it much longer than 38 years, but I still like to set up a guide occasionally to keep my bad habits in check.


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## BC WetCoast (Dec 8, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> That is just what I said,, it is all relevant,,
> Jeff



I was just a little more verbose.


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## Big Natey (Dec 13, 2015)

it matters not the equivalency of the length of the cutter tooth, nor the height of the depth gauge in relation to one another. What matters is that each tooth is cutting the same amount of wood with each pass.

that being said, if you keep all the teeth the same length and all the gauges the same height the chain will cut straight. Easier said then done after you have sharpened the chain so many times. Hand filing takes years to master, but even the best hand filers will get a chain out of shape after its been hand filed so many times.

I personally hand file my chains until I notice a couple teeth out of whack, then they hit the grinder. More hand filing then the grinder. The cycle repeats until the chain is useless.


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## TRTermite (Dec 13, 2015)

Sagetown said:


> I've been at it much longer than 38 years, but I still like to set up a guide occasionally to keep my bad habits in check.


Using a guide makes hand filing quicker with less guess work (IMO) . Seems to help keep the chain uniform to the end of your chain life. Never used a guide for years . Eyeball (singular) got tired and glasses became mandatory for close up work so I changed my manners. I am very confident with hand filing with or without a guide, but gots to have my glasses. You need to SEE and know what your chain needs before you start stroking your chain with the file.


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## woodcut70 (Dec 24, 2015)

The bar does play a big role. I do notice once the bar is wore down and gets beveled, it doesn't cut straight. You can watch the chain jump side to side. It also makes it hard to cut wedges out. So keep the chains sharp and bars in shape. 
I prefer to hand file for 3 times. Then On the 4th time ill use the machine.


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## Sagetown (Dec 24, 2015)

TRTermite said:


> You need to SEE and know what your chain needs before you start stroking your chain with the file.


Ooie ! U got me there. How often I just start in without going round the chain to see where I should begin. Very good point Termite.


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## Westboastfaller (Dec 24, 2015)

jdind said:


> Hi everyone,
> I've read on a few different websites that the reason a chain will cut crooked is because either the left or right set of teeth is longer than the other (see http://www.madsens1.com/bnc_cut_pull.htm). But what if the rakers have been filed to the proper height for each set of teeth?
> From what I understand, having different rakers 'depths' would mean that one set of teeth takes a thicker chip out of the wood on each pass, leading to a crooked cut. Conversely, proper rakers height would ensure a straight cut no matter what the length of the teeth.
> What do you all think? Is it the length of the teeth, or the rakers height that's important for a straight cut?



What do I think?? I "think" I know my business

It has to balance in order to balance you need all cutters sharp and all depths and angles consistant. IF your cutters are not filed past the rivit when this can be achieved with a proper raker gauge.
Not a two tooth contact gauge but a single tooth contact gauge.
If all your teeth were even and past the rivit then to equal a new chain with a depth of .030 you would have to take you rakers down about .064 I believe was the math.
It's the teetor totter effect.
When the cutters go into attack mode on the new end of the rivit it goes towards the wood. On the power head end of the rivit it hides. So obviously I don't mess with short teeth. I always wear my drivers long before that. It's just a revolution thing.
So if your sprocket is good along with guides, tention, finesse and keeping your revs up aproching brush and limbs and all of a sudden the chain starts to come off a noticeable difference one day from the next then its had its time.

Next is things got to be true
As the chain goes, if its balanced and true it cuts strait and its clean of pitch.
Good quality chain will stay true
I am talking about no bending of teeth or rakers prematurely.
Then the bar has to be true
Best way is to keep it true is all the above^^^^
There, now you know what to do to hand file for big wood. Think you can?


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## machinisttx (Dec 24, 2015)

Tooth length and tooth height are related. The tooth becomes shorter as it's sharpened, and unless the rakers are filed to match, it will remove less wood. This doesn't really matter as long as all the cutters and rakers are about the same. It does matter when one side, for whatever reason, is removing more wood than the other. The bar rails also need to be of even height, or even a perfect chain will cut arcs instead of straight.


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## jdind (Dec 26, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> What do I think?? I "think" I know my business
> 
> It has to balance in order to balance you need all cutters sharp and all depths and angles consistant. IF your cutters are not filed past the rivit when this can be achieved with a proper raker gauge.
> Not a two tooth contact gauge but a single tooth contact gauge.
> ...



Is this some kind of weird computer-generated response?
Either that, or I've got a lot more to learn about saws, because I couldn't make sense of it at all...


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