# HELP! Novice With Another Question



## daddy11ac (Dec 12, 2007)

Hi guys...need some help and am pretty sure you guys can help me figure this out. Probably a two second answer for you guys, but I will put as many details as possible.

OK, I got through one log pretty good and have made about 10 cuts, so I'm pretty familiar with the saw, setup, etc. I'm now hitting a problem in log 2 where I am getting about 12-18 inches into the log, and the chain seems to be taking a nose dive down a little bit.....the cutters don't hit anything and it's like I hit a wall in the log. I went down the other end, started from that side.....same thing. Adjusted the mill, went down another inch, got through some and same thing.

Now, the chain is definitely sharp. It is cutting like butter on the wood it does hit. I have checked and the bar does not seem like it is bending or bent. I loosened the mill and tightened it again just to be sure, and same problem.

So, what would cause my chain to seem to dig down and take the cut off line? Is this simply a chain tensioning issue? The chain seems like it's tensioned OK. It is not hanging off the bar when cool, but I can still expose the links pretty easily. I can move the chain very easily with my hand. Should I be trying to tighten it some more? I have the tension nob turned as far as I can get it.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!

Anthony


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## BobL (Dec 12, 2007)

daddy11ac said:


> OK, I got through one log pretty good and have made about 10 cuts, so I'm pretty familiar with the saw, setup, etc. I'm now hitting a problem in log 2 where I am getting about 12-18 inches into the log, and the chain seems to be taking a nose dive down a little bit.....the cutters don't hit anything and it's like I hit a wall in the log. I went down the other end, started from that side.....same thing. Adjusted the mill, went down another inch, got through some and same thing.
> 
> Now, the chain is definitely sharp. It is cutting like butter on the wood it does hit. I have checked and the bar does not seem like it is bending or bent. I loosened the mill and tightened it again just to be sure, and same problem.
> 
> So, what would cause my chain to seem to dig down and take the cut off line? Is this simply a chain tensioning issue? The chain seems like it's tensioned OK. It is not hanging off the bar when cool, but I can still expose the links pretty easily. I can move the chain very easily with my hand. Should I be trying to tighten it some more? I have the tension nob turned as far as I can get it.



My guess is your bar groove and drive links are worn and/or the chain is unevenly sharpened cutting more on one side than the other. The chain can be sharp and seem like it does cut but if it cuts more on one side than another it will bend the cut, slowly at first but after a while it will take a dive and stop forward progress.


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## woodshop (Dec 12, 2007)

Couple things can cause the saw to dive... worn bar (chain can move from side to side in the worn groove too easy) and also if your chain is sharper on one side than the other it will dive like that. Do you sharpen it yourself? Before I got my chainsaw sharpener, I had a habit of taking a little more off of the left teeth than the right ones due to the way I held the file. After several sharpening on a chain, the saw had a slight tendency to wander to the left as I crosscut through a log. Ripping exacerbates this even more partly because the tooth is designed to crosscut, not rip. So, the chain was sharp and it did cut fast, but would wander as I went down through a large log. 

Those are the two things that come to mind first.


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## woodshop (Dec 12, 2007)

HEY... great minds think alike? Looks like as I was typing away this post BOBL was thinking and saying the same thing and beat me by a nose.


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## daddy11ac (Dec 12, 2007)

Thanks guys. I appreciate the help. I will swap the chain first thing and put another one on, see how that affects it.

If I have erred in sharpening the chain (I have one of those guides that clamp onto the bar), is the chain basically no good now or can I attempt to re-sharpen correctly? 

Also, btw, where can I buy a 36" loop ripping chain? I haven't really been able to find it, but haven't looked that hard. Any places I can order online?

Thanks
Anthony


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## oldsaw (Dec 12, 2007)

daddy11ac said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate the help. I will swap the chain first thing and put another one on, see how that affects it.
> 
> If I have erred in sharpening the chain (I have one of those guides that clamp onto the bar), is the chain basically no good now or can I attempt to re-sharpen correctly?
> 
> ...



Baileys, hit the link at the top of the page. Their Woodsman Pro rip chain is very affordable and works well.

Take the chain to a chainsaw shop and have them resharpen it with a top angle between 5 and 10 degrees. Mine are 5-7.

Mark


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## daddy11ac (Dec 12, 2007)

thanks guys.....again first time for everything , and this is a first for me.....without counting, is there a way to know the number of drive links I need for a 36" inch bar? Bar is spec'd as .404 pitch - .058 gauge. 

Which brings up another question I have. My bar specs are .404 - .058, but the chain that it came with is the Oregon R73, which is .375 pitch and .058 gauge. Can someone educate me on why this chain might be on my bar....is it OK or should the chain have matched the specs on the bar?

Thanks for the help guys.

Anthony


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## oldsaw (Dec 12, 2007)

daddy11ac said:


> thanks guys.....again first time for everything , and this is a first for me.....without counting, is there a way to know the number of drive links I need for a 36" inch bar? Bar is spec'd as .404 pitch - .058 gauge.
> 
> Which brings up another question I have. My bar specs are .404 - .058, but the chain that it came with is the Oregon R73, which is .375 pitch and .058 gauge. Can someone educate me on why this chain might be on my bar....is it OK or should the chain have matched the specs on the bar?
> 
> ...



Unless the tip has been changed, you may have just figured out your diving issue...and are pretty lucky you haven't thrown a chain and hurt yourself or the saw. Check that tip and make sure it's a 3/8 tip or you had best put the setup away until you can get the right chain. They are not interchangable. It's possible the tip was changed by the prior owner, which is okay, or he was a complete idiot, which is not.

The drive link spacing on a 3/8 and a .404 chain is different, which means that the chain won't ride in the nose right. It will ride in the bar fine, since both are .058. But you need to get this checked out. If you can't figure it out, take it to the nearest dealer...real dealer, not a dealer that sells saws as an "accessory".

Mark


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## daddy11ac (Dec 12, 2007)

Ahh, thanks Mark. That helps a ton. I'll report back first thing in the morning when I head out to the garage. It's too damn cold to run out there right now. LOL. Appreciate it. 

Anthony


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## BobL (Dec 13, 2007)

0.058" chain in an 0.063 groove will do exactly what you describe. I had a chainsaw given to me that was also hitting a wall. On closer inspection I found it had been fitted with an 0.05" chain in a 0.063" groove bar. It never got beyond about 6" of cut before "hitting a wall" !


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## daddy11ac (Dec 13, 2007)

*OK, heres what i found...*

hi, i took everything off and took a good look at the bar. one side of the bar (the side that was currently facing away from the cut) had one edge that had worn (ie the depth of the slot on one side was less than the other side of the groove), seemingly making it easy for the chain to "tilt" in the groove. Would this cause my problem? Again, it was on the side opposite the cut. 

Let me know if i didnt explain this very well.

and oh, the bar tip was .375, not 404, so i guess i am ok with the chain.

thanks

anthony


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## oldsaw (Dec 13, 2007)

daddy11ac said:


> hi, i took everything off and took a good look at the bar. one side of the bar (the side that was currently facing away from the cut) had one edge that had worn (ie the depth of the slot on one side was less than the other side of the groove), seemingly making it easy for the chain to "tilt" in the groove. Would this cause my problem? Again, it was on the side opposite the cut.
> 
> Let me know if i didnt explain this very well.
> 
> ...



Yep, that's it. You will also want to check your chain for asymmetrical sharpening. A quick way to do it is to use an adjustable wrench to check the tooth length between the right hand and left handed cutters, then use a gauge to check the raker height on each. The bar wore down to to side forces being greater on one side and the bar probably not being flipped often enough.

Mark


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## daddy11ac (Dec 13, 2007)

oldsaw said:


> Yep, that's it. You will also want to check your chain for asymmetrical sharpening. A quick way to do it is to use an adjustable wrench to check the tooth length between the right hand and left handed cutters, then use a gauge to check the raker height on each. The bar wore down to to side forces being greater on one side and the bar probably not being flipped often enough.
> 
> Mark



thanks mark. so, anyone want to recommend a bar i should get. Husky 395XP.

Thanks guys

Anthony


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## oldsaw (Dec 13, 2007)

daddy11ac said:


> thanks mark. so, anyone want to recommend a bar i should get. Husky 395XP.
> 
> Thanks guys
> 
> Anthony



I've been using an Oregon PowerMatch bar from Bailey's. It has held up very well and was about $75 for the 42" which is the size you need for a 36" mill.

Mark


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## daddy11ac (Dec 13, 2007)

oldsaw said:


> I've been using an Oregon PowerMatch bar from Bailey's. It has held up very well and was about $75 for the 42" which is the size you need for a 36" mill.
> 
> Mark



hi, the bar I had was an oregon and it said 378xxxD009 on the bar (.404/.058). It measures roughly 40.5" inches from the tip of the bar with the nose in it to the other end. Is this a 42" bar? there is 109 links of .375 chain.
Anthony


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## BobL (Dec 13, 2007)

daddy11ac said:


> hi, the bar I had was an oregon and it said 378xxxD009 on the bar (.404/.058). It measures roughly 40.5" inches from the tip of the bar with the nose in it to the other end. Is this a 42" bar? there is 109 links of .375 chain.
> Anthony



a 42" bar with .375 chain should have about 136? links


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## daddy11ac (Dec 13, 2007)

BobL said:


> a 42" bar with .375 chain should have about 136? links



yes, thanks bob. I have a 36inch bar. i googled and learned that the listed bar length is from the tip to the housing. im learning so much, lol.

I'm going to get the oregon powermatch bar and get .375 pitch and .063 gauge. so in essence, the chains I already have will not be good because they are .058. But I don't see that bar available to handle .058 gauge chain. any other bars I should look at, or should I just make the move and put the old chains away and start from scratch? what is the pluses/minuses of chain gauge differences?

edited - i just bought the 36 inch powermatch bar with 2 loops of WP 33RP ripping chain - .375 and .063 gauge from bailey's. Did I screw up? LOL


thanks
anthony


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## BobL (Dec 13, 2007)

daddy11ac said:


> edited - i just bought the 36 inch powermatch bar with 2 loops of WP 33RP ripping chain - .375 and .063 gauge from bailey's. Did I screw up? LOL



No


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## dustytools (Dec 13, 2007)

BobL said:


> No



Double no.


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## daddy11ac (Dec 13, 2007)

dustytools said:


> Double no.



A "Double Thank You" to you both.

(I hate waiting for stuff to ship....urgh). LOL

Anthony


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## dustytools (Dec 13, 2007)

daddy11ac said:


> A "Double Thank You" to you both.
> 
> (I hate waiting for stuff to ship....urgh). LOL
> 
> Anthony



If you ordered it from Baileys you wont be waiting long.


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## woodshop (Dec 13, 2007)

daddy11ac said:


> ... i just bought the 36 inch powermatch bar with 2 loops of WP 33RP ripping chain - .375 and .063 gauge from bailey's. Did I screw up?



I think ya done good  

As long as you matched the drive links with the bar you're good to go. I have two 36 inch bars, both for Husky, both 3/8, .063, but my Windsor Speed Tip takes 119 drive links, and the 36 inch Husqvarna bar that came with the 395 only takes 115 links. That husky 36 inch bar is indeed physically a little shorter than the Speed Tip. There seems to be enough slack in the tightening mechanism to where an extra link over or under can be taken up, but there is a limit. My 115 link chains will not fit on my 119 link bar, so 4 links less puts a fly in the soup. 

Keep us informed on how things go when you get that Christmas package and start playing with your stuff.


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## daddy11ac (Dec 14, 2007)

woodshop said:


> I think ya done good
> 
> As long as you matched the drive links with the bar you're good to go. I have two 36 inch bars, both for Husky, both 3/8, .063, but my Windsor Speed Tip takes 119 drive links, and the 36 inch Husqvarna bar that came with the 395 only takes 115 links. That husky 36 inch bar is indeed physically a little shorter than the Speed Tip. There seems to be enough slack in the tightening mechanism to where an extra link over or under can be taken up, but there is a limit. My 115 link chains will not fit on my 119 link bar, so 4 links less puts a fly in the soup.
> 
> Keep us informed on how things go when you get that Christmas package and start playing with your stuff.



Yes, I ordered the loop to match the specs that bailey's gave for the bar I bought....it said it was 115 links of .375 .063 , so I ordered 2 loops of that. 
Anthony


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## oldsaw (Dec 14, 2007)

daddy11ac said:


> Yes, I ordered the loop to match the specs that bailey's gave for the bar I bought....it said it was 115 links of .375 .063 , so I ordered 2 loops of that.
> Anthony



You should be fine. I only had a catch when I ordered my 42" bar and came up one link short (Oregon said 135 and I needed 136 IIRC). But the 36" worked out fine at 115.

You done good.

Mark


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