# MONSTER TREE's removal photos



## Treeinnovator (Jul 5, 2006)

last week the winning bid was $3,700. bids were as high as $12,000. my bid was $7,500. some tree companies showed up and simply walked and passed on the job.

so here's some photos of the removal. i'll try and update this with more photos if i get the chance to pass by the jobsite again. 

all in all, now that the top branches have been removed, it looks like a crane was not needed. it looks like you can just chop it up and pull it off the side of the house with a truck or something.

see post below for the pics...


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 5, 2006)

here they are:


----------



## John464 (Jul 5, 2006)

why did they stop there? keep cutting it off the house


----------



## darkstar (Jul 5, 2006)

*Right*

Treeinvator , man i swear there is something wrong about your job... I dont know you but my gut feeling is you are up to no good . I feel like you are the kind of guy who genearlly screws everything up for most long term tree men. I dont have any evidence of this besides you talking about hiring wal mart help or something like that,but its just how you write and how you portray the job. 
Something smells funky , sorry if im wrong. Dark


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 5, 2006)

spoke to the homeowner today. she said they have been working on it for 4 days now and the tree guy admitted to her that he didn't realize the trunk was as big as it is. LOLOLOLOL ...i guess he's wishing he bid higher right about now. she felt kinda bad and let him do crown reductions on 3 other trees in the yard for an additional $1,200...which is high. i thnk he's trying to recoup some of his money.

so 4 days later, the trunk is still leaning on the house.


----------



## darkstar (Jul 5, 2006)

Treeinnovator said:


> spoke to the homeowner today. she said they have been working on it for 4 days now and the tree guy admitted to her that he didn't realize the trunk was as big as it is. LOLOLOLOL ...i guess he's wishing he bid higher right about now. she felt kinda bad and let him do crown reductions on 3 other trees in the yard for an additional $1,200...which is high. i thnk he's trying to recoup some of his money.
> 
> so 4 days later, the trunk is still leaning on the house.



Ok treeinvator .Im just trying to get this picture rt.. the one part that im not getting is why are you LOLOLOLO at this guys underbidding and his obvious misfortune . Why didnt you just walk when you knew the customer was after the lowest bidder . The stump removal alone looks to be worth over 2000 at min..
Most [pro] tree men i have ever knew generally will walk from any situation that even looks like a low bidder war. I understand your need to make a $ . 

Were you just tryin to sub it out? and make some chi ching?????????


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 5, 2006)

darkstar said:


> Ok treeinvator .Im just trying to get this picture rt.. the one part that im not getting is why are you LOLOLOLO at this guys underbidding and his obvious misfortune . Why didnt you just walk when you knew the customer was after the lowest bidder . The stump removal alone looks to be worth over 2000 at min..
> Most [pro] tree men i have ever knew generally will walk from any situation that even looks like a low bidder war. I understand your need to make a $ .
> 
> Were you just tryin to sub it out? and make some chi ching?????????



i bid $7500 knowing i could sub it out.

it's funny because (a) we've all been there done that...underbid and realized halfway into it (b) and because he probably isn't qualified to do the job correctly, which is why many tree guys passed or bid higher knowing what was needed for the job to get done correctly. this hack bit off more than he could chew.


----------



## darkstar (Jul 5, 2006)

*ok*

:yoyo: OK hope you had fun.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 5, 2006)

darkstar said:


> :yoyo: OK hope you had fun.



at this point, i'm interested in seeing how this is finished. alot of weight is still on the roof. can the hired contractor remove it creatively? some people didn't think a crane/excavator was needed...others did. we'll see if he can pull it off without heavy equipment.


----------



## Sprig (Jul 5, 2006)

John464 said:


> why did they stop there? keep cutting it off the house



I was just wondering the very same thing. Even if there was a worry of it falling off into the side of the house its nothing a few sturdy braces couldn't handle, makes one wonder it does.


----------



## Koa Man (Jul 6, 2006)

Treeinnovator said:


> spoke to the homeowner today. she said they have been working on it for 4 days now and the tree guy admitted to her that he didn't realize the trunk was as big as it is. LOLOLOLOL ...i guess he's wishing he bid higher right about now. she felt kinda bad and let him do crown reductions on 3 other trees in the yard for an additional $1,200...which is high. i thnk he's trying to recoup some of his money.
> 
> so 4 days later, the trunk is still leaning on the house.



That's why on the other thread about this tree my bid was over $14K. I have done many large banyans and know you are in for more work than appears. I still am pretty sure I could have had it done with a large excavator and 4 guys in 2.5 days.


----------



## Ekka (Jul 6, 2006)

Ha ha, I love this thread, home-owner has already upped the anti and is primed with anxiety right now.

Has the tree company asked for some released funding perhaps? Hopefully the owners dont pay now or they'll bolt.

For the arbo's amongst us pic 7681 really tells the story of what's left, the ugly dirt filled basal area, the chain killer and latex flood ... hahaha  

I laugh, I spend too much time on my bids informing and educating clients ... and when they go for the low ball, and this happens, I love it, it's a form of Karma justice.  

For the tree crew boss, bad call, he's now paying for an education is the way I see it.  

Wouldn't be much money in the kitty for machinery now hey guys?

Keep us posted, this is a good one.

$3700 is a joke, but now it's up to $4900 with the extras, will the customer have a bargain or not???


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 6, 2006)

Ekka said:


> Ha ha, I love this thread, home-owner has already upped the anti and is primed with anxiety right now.
> 
> Has the tree company asked for some released funding perhaps? Hopefully the owners dont pay now or they'll bolt.
> 
> ...



careful Ekka, Darkstar sympathizes with the low-ball hack companies. lol

i agree with your whole response. i drive by the jobsite and smile knowing this guy is going to burn through 20 brand new chains trying to saw through all that dirt inside the ficus root system. in Miami, FL we have a ton of illegal immigrant hack companies. i'm almost sure this is one of them. and i bet my stumpgrinder he dumped all that debris illegally in some vacant field or side of the road. i bet he underbids alot of other guys because he doesn't do things legally. these are the guys that make it tough for the rst of us to run a legit operation.

did he ask for anything up front? 
the owner told me the other day that he did not get any deposit money. the owner is a full-time RE investor and not someone that is going to be screwed easily. she did realize he underbid and therefore will give him extra side jobs to help cushion the blow$. 

i'll run down to the jobsite either today or tomorrow and take new photos. keep checking back.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 6, 2006)

Sprig said:


> I was just wondering the very same thing. Even if there was a worry of it falling off into the side of the house its nothing a few sturdy braces couldn't handle, makes one wonder it does.



yep, a few sturdy braces and a few bags of mulch.


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Jul 6, 2006)

Ekka said:


> For the tree crew boss, bad call, he's now paying for an education is the way I see it.
> 
> Wouldn't be much money in the kitty for machinery now hey guys?



This kills a lot of small businesses - not realizing that every job costs wear and tear that must eventually be paid for.


----------



## Xino5544 (Jul 7, 2006)

Why you blame "a ton of illegal immigrants hack companies"?
You said earlier that the tree guy is licensed and insured.....

Did you asked the owner for the name of the tree company doing the work?

Probably you were looking to sub the work and make a ton on money in the process. However, I agree with you about the guy stuck with such a job...

Just remember....there are dozen of "landscaping companies or lawn maintenance companies" that will do anything to get a job that will allow them to make $500 net profit...because is much better than cutting 12 patios at $40.00 ea. These guys are the ones that hire illegals at $80.00 a day, do not pay them insurance or anything else. If somebody gets hurt....well, that's their problem...or drop them at the ER....and...so long baby....you are on your own....I don't know you....At the end of the day the illegal is left with no money, no nothing and hurt (best escenario).....

Where in Miami are you located?

Regards,


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 7, 2006)

Xino5544 said:


> Why you blame "a ton of illegal immigrants hack companies"?
> You said earlier that the tree guy is licensed and insured.....
> 
> Did you asked the owner for the name of the tree company doing the work?
> ...



hi Xino, i'm in Ft. Lauderdale, the tree is in Miami. where abouts are you?

i didn't get the name of the company. i'll ask them later for it. would be nice to have a low-ball sub out handy. 

last illegal immigrant treee outfit i ran into was running through neighborhoods charging $7 for washionian palm trim/cleanings. that's absurd.


----------



## Buzzlightyear (Jul 9, 2006)

Treeinnovator said:


> i agree with your whole response. i drive by the jobsite and smile knowing this guy is going to burn through 20 brand new chains trying to saw through all that dirt inside the ficus root system. in Miami, FL we have a ton of illegal immigrant hack companies. i'm almost sure this is one of them. and i bet my stumpgrinder he dumped all that debris illegally in some vacant field or side of the road. i bet he underbids alot of other guys because he doesn't do things legally. these are the guys that make it tough for the rst of us to run a legit operation.
> 
> did he ask for anything up front?
> the owner told me the other day that he did not get any deposit money. the owner is a full-time RE investor and not someone that is going to be screwed easily. she did realize he underbid and therefore will give him extra side jobs to help cushion the blow$.
> ...



Shoot man, he could have just ben starting out, underbid and cocked up on the price ???? does happen.................Judge them on the final result rather than keep popping back taking the piss because you didn't gt the work..


----------



## Ryan Gossen (Jul 14, 2006)

*comeuppance*

I felt pity for the owner; by the looks of the house I was suprised they could come up with 3k out of pocket. But hearing its a RE investor removes any qualms I had about seeing this as an occasion to laugh out loud. I once thought this would be a good market for me, and cultivated some connections with some rehabbers and construction folks. I was mistaken. There is no profit motivation to spend money ensuring the health of something that will live for hundreds of years when your plan is to sell and be out in a month. Smash the root zone, head back latterals with a circular saw, change the grade around the trunk; the person financing the project will be long gone when these things take thier toll. Its a rare occasion when the RE investor gets bit for lowballing tree work. 

I think the worker should stop, revise his estimate to include the cost of the necessary work and equipment, and bolt with what he has if they dont go for it. 

Please send pictures of progress on the stump, you know that's going to be the best part.


----------



## jmack (Jul 15, 2006)

Buzzlightyear said:


> Shoot man, he could have just ben starting out, underbid and cocked up on the price ???? does happen.................Judge them on the final result rather than keep popping back taking the piss because you didn't gt the work..


why dont you reach out to the dude and see if you can help him out uh cause its nice to have freinds in this biz


----------



## Koa Man (Jul 15, 2006)

Is the job completed? I would like to see the area after the tree is removed.


----------



## Ryan Gossen (Jul 15, 2006)

jmack said:


> why dont you reach out to the dude and see if you can help him out uh cause its nice to have freinds in this biz



Now there's a good idea Treeminator/innovator. And having read your other posts, I think its possible that you could use the karma. Dont get me wrong; I apreciate this post, and Id be lying if I said it didnt give me some satisfaction to see underbidders getting thier just deserts. But if you are going through all the trouble to make a photo documentary and post it online, would it be so much harder to give the guy a few pointers? 

Then again, there is a good chance he will blow you off, or maybe he dosnt speak English. Still, maybe you are in a possition to improve the industry in your area. Anyway, all Im saying is consider where you are directing your energies. But thanks for the interesting post.


----------



## 1CallLandscape (Jul 15, 2006)

Ryan Gossen said:


> Now there's a good idea Treeminator/innovator. And having read your other posts, I think its possible that you could use the karma. Dont get me wrong; I apreciate this post, and Id be lying if I said it didnt give me some satisfaction to see underbidders getting thier just deserts. But if you are going through all the trouble to make a photo documentary and post it online, would it be so much harder to give the guy a few pointers?
> 
> Then again, there is a good chance he will blow you off, or maybe he dosnt speak English. Still, maybe you are in a possition to improve the industry in your area. Anyway, all Im saying is consider where you are directing your energies. But thanks for the interesting post.



I agree, friends are always good to have and alot better than enemies. if i saw some guy driving buy a job of mine taking pictures every day without talking to me i might be wondering wht he is doing. Also as others have pointed out that the company could have been a newer one in the business and bid low to get the work and his name out there, unfortunately the job was alot more intensive than expected. We ALL have been there at some time. now, like my self , we can pick and choose our jobs so we dont have to underbid. why wouldnt you go and lend some friendly advice to the poor guy . maybe he has a skill or pointer to offer you in return??? 

-mike


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 16, 2006)

1CallLandscape said:


> I agree, friends are always good to have and alot better than enemies. if i saw some guy driving buy a job of mine taking pictures every day without talking to me i might be wondering wht he is doing. Also as others have pointed out that the company could have been a newer one in the business and bid low to get the work and his name out there, unfortunately the job was alot more intensive than expected. We ALL have been there at some time. now, like my self , we can pick and choose our jobs so we dont have to underbid. why wouldnt you go and lend some friendly advice to the poor guy . maybe he has a skill or pointer to offer you in return???
> 
> -mike



i do give out my advice... then i get flamed and banned. yeah i suppose i could show him how to successfully displace the weight of the trunk with mulch bags....etc.

chance are though, he'd react the same way you all do.


----------



## Treeman67 (Jul 16, 2006)

this is interesting threads, when i see those photos, it alike no way my company can to do it alone weather it $3700 to $12,000.I humble myself as treeman, i would have sub-out major operation of removal and clean-up at least 2 contractors which is top excavators company and 2 more tree service company depend on size their companies,also it make take more than just a 2 1/2 day of completion. i was wonder if this is insurance will be billed or property owner had to paid full bill.To rest my case , i don't care if i get this job if this bid high, i rather walk way than put up major headache of unforeseeable situations.. 
treeman67


----------



## Jim1NZ (Jul 16, 2006)

It is great to have friends in the same area of business but nonprofessionals who can under bid on a job by more than 50% need some advice alright, get some industry training or allot more experience before pricing jobs or starting a business.

People that drag the industry down by doing what this contractor has done will not be friends to many.

I realize this i would have been an extremely hard job to put a price on, maby it would have been one to leave to one with more experience.

I agree with Ekka and Treeinnovater on this 1. Unprofessional tree men like this WONT last long in the industry they will literally sell them self out of business and out of the industry.

I think this contractor could do with more than a bit of advice, especially with the most difficult and expensive part of the job still come.


----------



## Ekka (Jul 16, 2006)

Buzzlightyear said:


> Judge them on the final result rather than keep popping back taking the piss because you didn't gt the work..



He's not popping back taking the piss coz he didn't get the work.

He's keeping us informed and observing what idiots do in this business .... a scientific study of human moronic behaviour.

Indeed, "taking the piss", how down right assumptive and instigating. By the way, are you a low baller or work for some?


----------



## a_lopa (Jul 16, 2006)

Treeinnovator said:


> i suppose i could show him how to successfully displace the weight of the trunk with mulch bags....etc.
> 
> please tell.


----------



## vharrison2 (Jul 16, 2006)

John464 said:


> why did they stop there? keep cutting it off the house



That is all you get for $ 3,700.00:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## TheGrasshopper (Jul 16, 2006)

First post for me here. With that I will give a disclaimer: I am quite new to tree work, and I am an employee, rather than an employer at this point in my tree career.
With that said, I think this thread is good, because it shows what happens when a person/company low balls the competition to get the work, and gets theirs. We live in a wal-mart society where most people are ill-informed, and will almost always take the option with the lowest bottom line. In a service industry like tree work, the two bit hacks that do poor work and charge little do a community service for both the tree work community, and the community surrounding the homeowner; sometimes misfortune is the best teacher of all. So I definitely give my props to the creator of this thread for broadcasting this learning experience to a greater audience than the immediate surrounding area of this particular job. Nice work


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 16, 2006)

TheGrasshopper said:


> So I definitely give my props to the creator of this thread for broadcasting this learning experience to a greater audience than the immediate surrounding area of this particular job. Nice work



listen up everyone, this might possibly be the smartest guy on the AS message board.


----------



## Koa Man (Jul 17, 2006)

Treeman67 said:


> ,also it make take more than just a 2 1/2 day of completion.
> treeman67



2.5 days tops if you have a big ex with a grab. Most of the limbs in that photo could be just grabbed and broken off with the ex. No need to climb and use a saw. I saw a banyan at least that big being removed several years ago by a tree company with a bucket truck and a big ex. By the end of 2 days the tree was gone, including the roots and backfilled with dirt. The ex was pulling apart the trunk like nobody's business. Benjamina banyan trunks are made up of a lot of small trunks and when you start cutting into it or ripping it with heavy equipment, they usually start to come apart in sections.


----------



## a_lopa (Jul 17, 2006)

a_lopa said:


> Treeinnovator said:
> 
> 
> > i suppose i could show him how to successfully displace the weight of the trunk with mulch bags....etc.
> ...


----------



## a_lopa (Jul 17, 2006)

I do a few excavator jobs this one is no more than a day.

i would have bid around 3,800-4,800 depending on float costs and made 2k for organising it


----------



## Treeinnovator (Aug 26, 2006)

here's the final result... with new pics.
i e-mailed the owner this week and asked them how everything went with their removal. here was her response:

_Hi *****…the tree removal went well. It took them 5 days. The trunk was the hardest part. They just kept cutting away at it until it was down almost to the ground and then they used a stump grinder to take it down all the way. I then had a pile of mulch about 10 inches deep so we had to hire a guy with a little bobcat to level the ground. Part of the trunk was actually growing into the roof. The roofer tied a rope to it and pulled it out with his truck. The roof is done and the city has lifted the “unsafe structure” violation. All is going slow but well. I attached a before and some after picture that you can share with your tree buddies. _

appearently they never used a crane or any large equipment. so what do you all think?.... was it worth the $3,500 that they bid ???

(new photos attached)


----------



## Ekka (Aug 26, 2006)

Here's the 3 pics resized and a lot smaller files to download for dial uppers to have a gander.


----------



## Ekka (Aug 26, 2006)

I think pics 2 and 3 show the enormity of the task of cutting through that aerial root system.

Layers of roots impregnated with dirt, a did a close up for you. That would have been a chain destroyer.

I cant see how they made money on that job.


----------



## nitwit dolt (Aug 26, 2006)

*I guess?*

I guess my screen name says it all, but I don't see any thing being done in the pics.:jester:


----------



## Groundie30 (Aug 29, 2006)

Yeah, those dirt filled roots look like alot of chain sharpening. Its cool when other trees grow out of those dirt pockets.. Glad I didn't go. 

P.S. Thanks for re-sizing those pics.


----------

