# Game of Logging



## woodchipper95 (Oct 21, 2015)

Is anyone on here certified in Game of logging?


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## slowp (Oct 21, 2015)

Ruh roh.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 22, 2015)

Logging shouldn't be a game...

Anyway good luck on that, game of logging is kind of a joke in these parts, wait no its a complete joke that isn't very funny in these parts.

But its a good course for those that don't know what they are doing, it just shouldn't have the word logging in it.


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## madhatte (Oct 22, 2015)

Huh. Haven't had one of these threads in awhile. I guess it's probably worth a few comments. 

GOL techniques are solid enough, but they are most often taught as though they are the only way to do things, which is simply not the case. Their insistence on open faces and tripping a trigger behind a bored backcut have the cutter working harder than necessary and spending way more time under the tree than necessary, and the combination of the two leave no opportunity to steer the tree in any way once it starts to tip. There's nothing wrong with the method, fundamentally, but it should not be taken as the final answer to all tree problems.


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 22, 2015)

{*Op's second forum posting^^^^^}

No but you're smart enough to get a degree so you should get smart enough to download the new standards and if you are going to challenge a falling exam you should have all this studied before hand??? BC Fallers have flip books that we are required to have close by for referal. It won't be as easy as you think,You are not going to walk in there and ace it. Illprepared and practiced, You won't even pass.
Falling the tree is just a little part.
Site overviews,falling plans,sidebinds,(compression wood,tention wood) heavy leaner, small diameter against the lean, barracades, signage, ribboning, Hydration, stretching, MSI awareness & prevention, conditioning, rest,concentration, mental stability, ATTATUDE, HUMILITY, openness to learn, knowing your limits,alternative methods, measuring rainfall,monitoring wind,Maturity, hypo/hyperthermia training (controlling your environment)brushing of standing timber,degression,safety trails, use of stight lines, checking corners,use of dogs, use of chain brakes,looks up,( watches canopy) proper use of wedges to name a few off my head.

That takes care of about 6 or 7 pages prehaps out of 24 ...Yeah ...maybe a few pages are about falling cuts including percentages, the "when and when not to's".
30% of your mark here is ; The going about falling of the tree and 15% is for falling the tree.

I think you are starting to get the hint.
This makes you neither certified, qualified or bonified to pack my gas.
What's a matter with you,you posted in another forum for entertainment? You think you are going to go out there and bust a falling exam through a few posts on the internet.
You come across as pretty insulting on that other post.
"want to o win a saw" We do it for the passion of it. We have a saying and that is "If you do it for the money you are going to get hurt or killed.
I'm glad you think the most dangerous Industry in NA (logging) and the most dangerous job in NA is somewhat of a joke to you " I want to win a saw" I would put both my falling saws on the line that you couldn't get 90% based on you not having a glue as to what's expected and any kind of practice with it. I just are not going to help a guy under false pretenses with motivation or otherwise. I give my time to serious people only so go back and have your joke thread where you started and welcome back if you show serious intent and growth in the future but you are no where near ready IMHO

I cant speak for everyone but I don't personally know any Fallers that wouldn't have this reaction. Most wouldn't have given you this much time.


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## KenJax Tree (Oct 22, 2015)

Certification mean nothing really, all it says is that you passed a test. Taking it from the book and applying it in the real world is what really matters.

I know some guys that have all the certs possible and shouldn't even be allowed to use a hand saw let alone a chain saw.


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 22, 2015)

Quote slowp: "Ruh roh"

Yiiikes..you can say that again scoob


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## dhskier2 (Oct 23, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> {*Op's second forum posting^^^^^}
> 
> No but you're smart enough to get a degree so you should get smart enough to download the new standards and if you are going to challenge a falling exam you should have all this studied before hand??? BC Fallers have flip books that we are required to have...



In case I missed the sarcasm in your rhetoric- The OP's referencing a chainsaw safety training and operating course called Game Of Logging (as Northman said, terrible name).... not the general profession being a game of certification standards


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## RandyMac (Oct 24, 2015)

flipbook fallers...LMAO!!!


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## SliverPicker (Oct 25, 2015)

What is a "flip book". (Serious question.)


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 25, 2015)

I think it was a "flip book Faller"LMAO , AKA "The Metric Generation & The Flip Book Fallers" 
A flip book in this case is the size of a reg piece of paper and made out of heavy paper it unfolds length ways and all cutting procedures are over laped like a folder in a sense with the label visible on the bottom of each procedure. The pages ( approx 4" X 4" ) flip up not to the side.
I don't know if someone here is stretching the imagination and has visions of fallers referring to the flip books to make a fall , hence; flipbookfaller. It is a funny image with the name to boot...lol
Now referring to blasting tree procedures may be different for Fallers.


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## SliverPicker (Oct 25, 2015)

Thanks. I guess I was thinking wrong. I couldn't figure out what you where talking about. Its a literal book. 

I was dropped (repeatedly) as a child.


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## woodchipper95 (Oct 29, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> {*Op's second forum posting^^^^^}
> 
> No but you're smart enough to get a degree so you should get smart enough to download the new standards and if you are going to challenge a falling exam you should have all this studied before hand??? BC Fallers have flip books that we are required to have close by for referal. It won't be as easy as you think,You are not going to walk in there and ace it. Illprepared and practiced, You won't even pass.
> Falling the tree is just a little part.
> ...


Well, this Saturday we'll find out if I can pass. I know I will. I will post my certification just for you and more score if given to me. I have practiced and I posted it in here as well simply because another member suggest that I do so.


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 29, 2015)

Its not the fact that you posted it here that contributed to the way I felt. It came across as a bit off a cocky mockery to one that has given Blood sweat and tears to a profession.
Considering you just asked a question in this fourn I was the one that didn't stick to the format and regret not posting to your Original OP on the other forum.
As well, previously in my time here I had never heard anything negative about GOL
and that led me to believe they were 
respected and practiced methods and a much improved teaching to counter the source of extremely high compensation rates you guys face. I have personally googled GOL once as I was trying to bridge the gap and don't recall anything drastic that stood out as conflicting to my teachings in the "New Word Order" at a quick glance anyhow. And I learnt what GOL stands for.
I suppose I'll need to revisit before I can forum an opinion.
Good luck with thing
Stay safe


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## treeslayer2003 (Oct 29, 2015)

boaster, just curios, but i thought out your way every one face and back cut? as in traditional directional falling?


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 29, 2015)

I'm gathering that GOL is bore cutting they use when not necessary? As I said; I admit to being ignorant, I said I looked up GOL and "at a glance there was nothing unusual but would no longer have an opinion until I understood more. I was looking at the technique I'm sure,, and not about when to use it. If they think it should be used all the time then that's Phucked. 
We use beavertails and straps, diamond cuts and Falling off the lean for YOUR usual and then we have what can be our usual. There are other ways that will kill you quick as a barberchair in some ground like going down with a giant rootmat, tree and all. In big Cedar country on hills/rock you can't manipulate or stall certain trees. Even if there was no such thing as barberchairing' or uprooting you still need to finish at a top high/safe corner on big wood.
That means boring one side to where you want to be out of the way and then bore the other to meet the high corner. I came from a background of spacing (thinning) Forestry would have us fall the snags and spiketop cedars with generally no training and little bars. I'd love to go back and look at those stumps...lol. I know it was Scarry at times on a hill because you could here them crack and I'd be down the hill cutting towards the holding wood. You are pretty much underneath it. Scarry stuff.
I'm glad for all my training now but I can't say the same for all my experiences but lucky to be here. I was not broken in to production Falling untill '97 ...8 years of trying to figure it out by myself before hand.
Pain is unfortunately the quickest way to learn and you won't **** on your suspenders twice..figuratively speaking.


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## slowp (Oct 29, 2015)

Once again, (sigh) I will post my experience with actually going to 2 days of GOL training.

Out of curiosity, I paid the fee and went to their beginning course. I am not, and have not been a faller. My experience level was working on a thinning/cleaning up crew, firewood hack, and officially certified B bucker with the Forest Service. Oh, and working out on logging units checking contract compliance for many years. I did pack a bit of gear for one of our excellent local fallers whilst we identified and he cut hazard trees along a road. That was entertaining.

Our instructor was Ken Some sort of a French sounding last name that somebody on here is familiar with. He was a production faller in the Mideast--from Wisconsin. He dressed up in all the fluorescent gear. Day 1: He covered safety, saw stuff, chain sharpening, basics. It was mostly classroom, with a trip out where he cut down a big hardwood. The latter did not go as planned.
He quickly went to plan B and got the tree down. I can't remember what was the problem, but the bore cut was not going to work which he realized after part way through the thing.

Day 2: We went out into the woods and we did two trees each. We could bore cut them or conventionally cut them. I paired up with a logger. It's hard to work with somebody you don't know, at least it is for me. We also had a third guy with us and he was scary. He started to grab the bar of my saw while it was running. I am a firm believer in the setting of the chain brake, so I automatically was putting that on and the instructor was about to hit the guy's hand with an axe handle, but my braking beat the handle. The instructor pulled me aside and thanked me. The other folks were mainly from the Seattle parks dept. and were pretty new to everything.

This course was not totally about bore cutting. We went over humboldts, coos bay and releasing spring poles. I found out I'd been doing one method of the latter totally backwards. He covered and demonstrated such things like putting in the back cut first, on small trees and the boring through to the face cut so a wedge could fit in.

Unlike the general opinion on here, I did not leave with the assurance that I was now an expert and ready to go out and work as a production faller. That was never ever implied during the course. In fact, we were told we were armed only with the basics, and another course was coming up later. I didn't go to that. 

I tried using the bore cuts when I got back and a friend wanted some trees thinned out. Most were too small for that but it did work on a couple. The problem with working in that stand was that the trees were limb locked and too small to have enough mass to work through. I finally gave up and suggested letting the trees get bigger and hiring a buncher to log them or clearcut the patch.

Since most of the folks don't have the opportunity to learn from pros, it was a good safety course. I felt that the class size was too big. 

I still enjoy cutting the smaller trees, and I still get nervous and sweaty on the bigger small trees. I do not mess with normal or large trees. Them's my rules.

I used to really enjoy thinning in the pole sized lodgepole. They'd usually obey and go where I wanted them to go, weren't too scary, and you could look back and see what havoc you'd wreaked. I'd go home tired and with a peaceful feeling.


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## slowp (Oct 29, 2015)

Here are pictures of the cutting of the big tree. Maybe you fallers can figure out what went wrong. I think it had something to do with more rot in the tree than estimated.


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 29, 2015)

Thanks, I enjoyed that read.
It makes me understand a little more. Sounds like an average entry level course.


What went wrong?
That's the big tree that the instructor tried to bore I believe.
The second to last pic looks like a half of an undercut cut out? I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking at there.
Anyway I can unravel most of the puzzle I'm sure.
First off, that's a maple I do believe and on my pre Falling assessment I see heart rot fungus with a big cat face.
Maple has the tendency to have multi stemps with a lot of extreme extended weight. Obviously this is a candidate to sound test with your axe and maybe bore in the with the fibers where the undercut would go. (In this case with the lean is the only option and would require a strap.

It just seemed he was off the lean a lot in puncky wood and was experiencing side bind in the bore. Meaning; He could feel the downward presure on his bar tip. Even solid wood it wouldn't be uncommon with Maple. Think it was a poor assessment and inexperience in this timber type.
It appears the tree was cut/broke of the side parrel with "The Holding wood" looking at the splinters from the compression on the stump.

OK Slowp
"There's those that teach and those that do"


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 29, 2015)

Maybe that picture was him trying to make a Dutchman with the half under cut. Imagine showing that to a class.


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## slowp (Oct 29, 2015)

Like I said, it didn't go as planned and he had to improvise to get it down.


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 29, 2015)

was he trying to swing the tree to the right leaving that chunk on the face ?


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 29, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> was he trying to swing the tree to the right leaving that chunk on the face ?


Looks like it. Well outside the limitations of possible. Maybe not been his first choice but what a sad sad thing to do in front of a class. Begginers or otherwise.


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## treeslayer2003 (Oct 29, 2015)

what went wrong? just about every thing it looks to me. i must agree with westboaster, dude went about that all wrong and should have felled it with the lean. not much choice with heavy lean hardwood that are soft inside.
i would not however use a strap if that means boring in behind the hinge and cutting out to the back in typical gol style. big open face in the direction of lean and back it up quickly. that soft center would break rather quickly.
like boaster said in his other post and others have said before, it is not a do all cure all.


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## slowp (Oct 29, 2015)

I believe it is one of those laws. When people are watching, the tree will not go as planned. Like new pickups are tractor beams for trees, as are fences and gates.


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## 1270d (Oct 29, 2015)

[QUOTE="Westboastfaller, post: 5594536, member: 122476]. you won't **** on your suspenders twice..figuratively speaking.[/QUOTE]


I've only done it once so guess I'm good shape now. They were my favorite pair too...


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 29, 2015)

I tend to agree with you more than I agree with myself... ERM uh ..this time. If that makes any sense.
Typical Maple cutting can be scetchy
up in the 2.5' - 4' size but like you say with the heartwood rot you'd be good to go in this case. As far as new commers, they should take the precaution until they have more fibre experience.


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 29, 2015)

Looks like the hinge broke and went with the lean anyways ? Did he smash that pretty Dolmar ?


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## madhatte (Oct 29, 2015)

slowp said:


> I believe it is one of those laws. When people are watching, the tree will not go as planned. Like new pickups are tractor beams for trees, as are fences and gates.



Or, y'know, camp grills or picnic tables. Cameras only exacerbate the effect.


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## treeslayer2003 (Oct 29, 2015)

lol, i herd about that. and yes, it will go wrong only when there is a camera about.
Nate did you fix that saw? 064 weren't it?


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## slowp (Oct 29, 2015)

No saws were smashed.


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## bitzer (Oct 30, 2015)

How long was his bar? Looks like the side failed. Once you open the tree up and see that you need to plan accordingly. Of course he had to be from here. I'm surprised he had a full wrap. I know of this guy.


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## SliverPicker (Oct 30, 2015)

The clown suit is embarrassing.

I wouldn't have tried anything with that rotten cull other than go with the lean.


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## slowp (Oct 30, 2015)

Here is the picture I have of the saw. I think he HAS to wear the outfit and use a Dolmar. They are sponsors.


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## SliverPicker (Oct 30, 2015)

That makes sense.

I recently bought a Dolmar myself. Couldn't be happier.

However, I ain't buying the clown suit. It looks like a reject costume for the Great Wizard from Oz. All its missing is a big "SF" across the chest (Super Feller).


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 30, 2015)

Looks like would keep a guy dry in the rain ,and breathe well like mx gear does ,maybe he is on to something ?


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## SliverPicker (Oct 30, 2015)

It looks like it would be like wearing a lawn and garden bag.


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 30, 2015)

SliverPicker said:


> It looks like it would be like wearing a lawn and garden bag.


those will keep you dry in the rain also ,cut a few holes for head and arms ,instant raingear


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## woodchipper95 (Oct 30, 2015)

Being raised by a single mother I taught myself a lot, with the use of youtube and sites like this one. The first tree I ever cut and first time I ever ran a saw was a wind fallen white pine with a DBH of about 16". I got off the school bus and found my paps old saw that was in the shed I was about 10. I had that pine limbed before my mother came home and continued to buck it into firewood rounds. My mom pulled in and asked what I was doing, I replied "saving you money" as she was going to call someone to clean it up. Ever since then I was hooked. My senior year of high school my mother asked what I wanted for graduation, well that was how I got my saw in my avatar a 545. Coming in to my college harvesting class I was by far the most proficient with a saw. I have been providing firewood for my mom and pap since I got my drivers license about 10 cords a year. Im getting certified for three reasons. It is free, something to add on a application, and I get to do something I enjoy. 

It is sad that young people have no credit of worth on sites like these. I am a pretty well accomplished archer both hunting and target. On a archery specific site I had an account and listed my real age, with that age I had zero respect. I made a new account with a different name and age, people loved my advice and asked for my advice in privet messages. I am no where near as good with chainsaws as I am with a bow in my hand but I do know a thing or two. Don't judge a book by its cover.


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## Gologit (Oct 30, 2015)

woodchipper95 said:


> It is sad that young people have no credit of worth on sites like these. I am a pretty well accomplished archer both hunting and target. On a archery specific site I had an account and listed my real age, with that age I had zero respect. I made a new account with a different name and age, people loved my advice and asked for my advice in privet messages. I am no where near as good with chainsaws as I am with a bow in my hand but I do know a thing or two. Don't judge a book by its cover.



Respect is _earned. _It's not an entitlement. Don't _tell_ us what you know and how good you are. _Show_ us instead. Easy, no?


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## treeslayer2003 (Oct 30, 2015)

chipper, when you are older, say 20-30 years older, you will then understand why those folks didn't give you as much respect as you thought you should get. personally i applaud your trying to get good at things like saw handling and archery, but that is not the same thing as what your expecting.


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## 1270d (Oct 30, 2015)

That kind rain gear works pretty good. You guys get a little bit hung up on the color.


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## slowp (Oct 30, 2015)

Everything is true on the internet. Time for humor. HUMOR.

Was the privet pruned so messages could be easily exchanged over it? Sorry, I couldn't resist. This either. Bring me a shrubbery!


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## woodchipper95 (Oct 30, 2015)

Gologit said:


> Respect is _earned. _It's not an entitlement. Don't _tell_ us what you know and how good you are. _Show_ us instead. Easy, no?


Would you like a video?


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## Gologit (Oct 30, 2015)

woodchipper95 said:


> Would you like a video?



Sure. You up for it?


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## svk (Oct 30, 2015)

Gologit said:


> Sure. You up for it?


Don't forget that it was you who invited the young man in here. Go easy on him.


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## Gypo Logger (Oct 31, 2015)

woodchipper95 said:


> Being raised by a single mother I taught myself a lot, with the use of youtube and sites like this one. The first tree I ever cut and first time I ever ran a saw was a wind fallen white pine with a DBH of about 16". I got off the school bus and found my paps old saw that was in the shed I was about 10. I had that pine limbed before my mother came home and continued to buck it into firewood rounds. My mom pulled in and asked what I was doing, I replied "saving you money" as she was going to call someone to clean it up. Ever since then I was hooked. My senior year of high school my mother asked what I wanted for graduation, well that was how I got my saw in my avatar a 545. Coming in to my college harvesting class I was by far the most proficient with a saw. I have been providing firewood for my mom and pap since I got my drivers license about 10 cords a year. Im getting certified for three reasons. It is free, something to add on a application, and I get to do something I enjoy.
> 
> It is sad that young people have no credit of worth on sites like these. I am a pretty well accomplished archer both hunting and target. On a archery specific site I had an account and listed my real age, with that age I had zero respect. I made a new account with a different name and age, people loved my advice and asked for my advice in privet messages. I am no where near as good with chainsaws as I am with a bow in my hand but I do know a thing or two. Don't judge a book by its cover.


Good story, and you had a great introduction to the woods.Sounds like it might be in your blood. Disregard the wannabes screaming from the cheap seats. Lol
John


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 31, 2015)

That's right and follow me on twitter
I thought you were the one tossing off for a living..lol
Who's watching the door here anyway *smiles*

I liked his story and I'm rooting for him.

You guys say that word in Canada?
May take the ferry off the Island and go over to Canada in a couple weeks
Lol

*edit ...I thought you said "wankers


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## Gologit (Oct 31, 2015)

svk said:


> Don't forget that it was you who invited the young man in here. Go easy on him.



Go easy on him? By all means. By the way, is that an order or just a suggestion? If it's an order I'll give it the same consideration I give everything else you have to say. If it's a suggestion I'll think about it.
He wanted to know how people felt about GOL. This is the place to find out.
If he wants to make a video to showcase his skills...and we're talking logging here, not archery...I'm all for it.


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## Rev (Oct 31, 2015)

Gologit said:


> Respect is _earned. _It's not an entitlement.



I stumbled on this as I was signing out. Wrong. Depends on where you were raised, but we are raised to instantly show respect to everyone. As a human being with dignity you are actually entitled to respect. If one has no self-respect or concern for others, they may forfeit that anyhow eventually.

When one puts oneself on a pedestal the obvious lack of balance is clear to his opposition.


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## svk (Oct 31, 2015)

Gologit said:


> Go easy on him? By all means. By the way, is that an order or just a suggestion? If it's an order I'll give it the same consideration I give everything else you have to say. If it's a suggestion I'll think about it.
> He wanted to know how people felt about GOL. This is the place to find out.
> If he wants to make a video to showcase his skills...and we're talking logging here, not archery...I'm all for it.



I see you are playing a grumpy old man for Haloweeen. Oh never mind. 

I'm actually impressed you guys let it go this far without tearing him to shreds.


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 31, 2015)

*Rev
So you are saying we are all born evil and have to be taught " thou shall not kill"

Or this one, I like this one.
Be respectful, invite them and if they don't accept
Declare Jihad

I guess I was wrong..he was invited and I knifed him
Guess thats my parents bad, I guess I'm still that evil baby inside.


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## SliverPicker (Oct 31, 2015)

It starts with cautious optimizm when you become aquanted with someone new. From there that person either gains your respect or they dont. The respect must be earned.


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## svk (Oct 31, 2015)

I give everyone I don't know the same amount of respect. It's up to them to increase or decrease the amount they get going forward.

Edit: Silver we were typing basically the same thing at the same time.


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## SliverPicker (Oct 31, 2015)

Same thing. Different words. Warped minds think alike apparently.


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 31, 2015)

It's a pecking order...its a cult
where I'm from. The Faller has the most dangerous job...makes the most money..ride in thier own crumie
Works shorter days, can shut down a job, is respected for his title alone and no rigger dare do touch a Fallers beer out of a fridge.
Now that's the coast..everywhere else is phucked


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 31, 2015)

I have lived on east and west coast ,out west the people are a lot different than back east ,back east they seemed friendlier than here ,may just been where i ended up here ,but seems like more people like each other on the rh coast than here .


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## SliverPicker (Oct 31, 2015)

The pay here ain't so wonderful. I did shut the last job down on three occasions due to wind. The foreman was none too happy about it. He later saw the light. Hehe.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 31, 2015)

Chipper, Show the video, but as Gologit implied be ready for whatever criticism comes your way, accept it, learn from it and move on. Some folks can't seem to figure out that part, and just get pissed and start calling loggers dirty names.

As far as respect goes, its earned period.

I meet you somewheres here or in real life, we are equals, your actions decide your fate. By equals I mean I'm not going to be kissing your ass and I don't expect you to kiss mine.

For being young don't worry about it, just learn to pay attention to the folks that have been doing it awhile, despite whatever field be it archery, logging, pimping or pushing pencils. Learn from them, but be able to tell the difference between good and bad practices. (a little hint... the folks that whine a lot about not getting paid enough to do the job they've been doing for decades are getting exactly what they deserve)


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## svk (Oct 31, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> back east they seemed friendlier than here


Seriously? That really surprises me.


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## Gologit (Oct 31, 2015)

svk said:


> Seriously? That really surprises me.



Spend much time on the Left Coast?


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 31, 2015)

svk said:


> Seriously? That really surprises me.


Don't get me wrong ,lot of real great people out west ,but living back east ,felt more family with the neighbors vs just neighbors


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 31, 2015)

SliverPicker said:


> The pay here ain't so wonderful. I did shut the last job down on three occasions due to wind. The foreman was none too happy about it. He later saw the light. Hehe.


I would clasify that as a "standdown' standing down. As they say now,It's no longer : " You have the right to refuse unsafe work" but now worded "obligated" The BCFSC (BC Forest Saftey Counsel) Is in believe that "every accident is preventable" so its designed to leave fault on the worker that is as long as supervisor and employers have done all those due diligence. As we have a bill C45 that makes **** run up hill. It's so tightly constructed that you are to blame. Makes for a lot of paperwork and training.

I was referring to shutting down the job collectively.
Supervisor "call it" on day shut downs or crew stand downs. I am not certified or Qualified as its $1,5.00 to qualifiy and 3 day cource... Lol and CertifIed can be done an the job with a QST from BCFSC 1 in 5 has to be a supervisor. I can control my environment with out question only. But reserve the right to write anyone anything up


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## SliverPicker (Oct 31, 2015)

Northy hits it on the head (again).

"(a little hint... the folks that whine a lot about not getting paid enough to do the job they've been doing for decades are getting exactly what they deserve)"

Especially that part.


PS There's no sarcasm in this post.


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## SliverPicker (Oct 31, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> I would clasify that as a "standdown' standing down. As they say now,It's no longer : " You have the right to refuse unsafe work" but now worded "obligated" The BCFSC (BC Forest Saftey Counsel) Is in believe that "every accident is preventable" so its designed to leave fault on the worker that is as long as supervisor and employers have done all those due diligence. As we have a bill C45 that makes **** run up hill. It's so tightly constructed that you are to blame. Makes for a lot of paperwork and training.
> 
> I was referring to shutting down the job collectively
> supervisor which I am not certified or Qualified as its $1,5.00 to qualifiy and 3 day cource... Lol and CertifIed can be done an the job with a QST from BCFSC 1 in 5 has to be a supervisor. I can control my environment with out question.



In this case the first time that I walked off when the wind got too bad for my comfort I was cutting out a landing and a green pine snapped its hinge off due to wind and went 180º the wrong way and landed 100% in the haul road. That was enough for me. The other four younger cutters walked out of the woods when they say me throw the saw on my shoulder and walk to the truck. We had a meeting on the landing. The other guys thought they where obligated to cut until the end of the day regardless of wind etc. I told them to listen to that "little voice" and if someone else doesn't like it just ignore them.

I almost always work alone. In this case I was just a "mercenery" cutter for a new outfit from the city. They were skidding with a Bobcat with a grapple and when we got to 6" inches of snow they shut the job down until spring. The Bobcat was completely useless after about 3" of snow. Blah, blah, blah.


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## slowp (Oct 31, 2015)

How about respect for Subaru drivers? (Based on a post by SVK in the firewood forum.) Or for people with different beliefs? Or ...

Don't know about Minniesoda, but out here one garners "respect" by how one actually performs on the ground. There are a zillion people who claim to be "experts" in getting trees on the ground. Just watch Youtube, or heck, read the boasts on this site. I am not and will never be a faller but I kept a mental list of the local guys who were and who was safe to be around and who was not. That, I can tell. The same goes for logging crews. When you have to be around some crews, you want to be coffeed up and jumpy and keeping tabs on big stumps to dive behind, and places to run to. Actually, you probably should do that anyway. But there are some crews that are crazy and just rig up bad settings. Or give the go ahead before everybody is out of the way. I'd call it more of a trust, and I want to see how people work before I trust them enough to work with them in the woods. They probably feel the same. You can't learn that in forestry school, and I'm certainly not going to trust somebody who happens to post on internet forums. 

Now, back to the game of logging, a question for the OP. I am of the understanding that you have to have gone through their not cheap courses in order to enter one of their competitions. Is this correct?


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## northmanlogging (Oct 31, 2015)

SliverPicker said:


> Northy hits it on the head (again).
> 
> "(a little hint... the folks that whine a lot about not getting paid enough to do the job they've been doing for decades are getting exactly what they deserve)"
> 
> ...



Seems like the guys that have been doing the same thing, and I mean the exact same thing for 5 or more years ***** the most and work the least, or is it just me?


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## svk (Oct 31, 2015)

slowp said:


> How about respect for Subaru drivers? (Based on a post by SVK in the firewood forum.) Or for people with different beliefs? Or ...
> 
> Don't know about Minniesoda, but out here one garners "respect" by how one actually performs on the ground. There are a zillion people who claim to be "experts" in getting trees on the ground. Just watch Youtube, or heck, read the boasts on this site. I am not and will never be a faller but I kept a mental list of the local guys who were and who was safe to be around and who was not. That, I can tell. The same goes for logging crews. When you have to be around some crews, you want to be coffeed up and jumpy and keeping tabs on big stumps to dive behind, and places to run to. Actually, you probably should do that anyway. But there are some crews that are crazy and just rig up bad settings. Or give the go ahead before everybody is out of the way. I'd call it more of a trust, and I want to see how people work before I trust them enough to work with them in the woods. They probably feel the same. You can't learn that in forestry school, and I'm certainly not going to trust somebody who happens to post on internet forums.
> 
> Now, back to the game of logging, a question for the OP. I am of the understanding that you have to have gone through their not cheap courses in order to enter one of their competitions. Is this correct?


Keep trolling.


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## Rev (Oct 31, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> *Rev
> So you are saying we are all born evil and have to be taught " thou shall not kill"
> 
> Or this one, I like this one.
> ...



Yup Whatever????

Changing my avatar because you declared jihad.


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## Gypo Logger (Oct 31, 2015)

svk said:


> Keep trolling.


It's not trolling, it's called free-farting. Lol
Passing gas with blatant disregard for one's surroundings, environment or company. Free-farting is so natural that often the subject isn't even aware of doing so.


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## 2dogs (Oct 31, 2015)

Hey! You guys need to go easy on SVK! He doesn't like Gologit or slowp. But he is fair with everyone else including me. (Though in my opinion Northbear and myself are in his sights). So just let the warnings go.


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## bitzer (Oct 31, 2015)

I can usually tell right away, although I'm too nice to say it. I just nod and go back to my buisness as long as their bs doesn't effect me.


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## bitzer (Oct 31, 2015)

2dogs said:


> Hey! You guys need to go easy on SVK! He doesn't like Gologit or slowp. But he is fair with everyone else including me. (Though in my opinion Northbear and myself are in his sights). So just let the warnings go.


I'm walking that tightrope too.


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## Gypo Logger (Oct 31, 2015)

I flunked GOL. Do I care?


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 31, 2015)

Aaaahhhaaahaaaa ..that's AWESOME


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## svk (Oct 31, 2015)

bitzer said:


> I'm walking that tightrope too.


You've helped (or attempted) to help a lot of folks with felling tips and techniques on here. You're a good man in my book.


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## svk (Oct 31, 2015)

2dogs said:


> Hey! You guys need to go easy on SVK! He doesn't like Gologit or slowp. But he is fair with everyone else including me. (Though in my opinion Northbear and myself are in his sights). So just let the warnings go.


Who is northbear?

The only member on the mods radar right now is the guy who showed up in chainsaw a few days ago acting like BA.


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## woodchipper95 (Oct 31, 2015)

Well to anyone who cares, or those who clearly didn't want me to, I passed.... with a 98% I had a two point to deduction for taking one of my hands off the saw without the chain break activated. I was one of two students out of seventeen to fell their tree on the pin. I didn't get a free saw BUT I did get a new hard hat, chaps, and a dolmar felling/safety jacket. 

What did I learn? The dolmar 5105 is HEAVY for a 50cc saw, but has balls to justify it's weight. The 7910 isn't bad and is a modest performer. The star tron is a JOKE compared to ethanol shield.


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## woodchipper95 (Oct 31, 2015)

Her is my stump.


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 31, 2015)

svk said:


> Who is northbear?
> 
> The only member on the mods radar right now is the guy who showed up in chainsaw a few days ago acting like BA.


That guy shared a lot of good information ,when is his parole hearing to let him back ?


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## woodchipper95 (Oct 31, 2015)




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## woodchipper95 (Oct 31, 2015)




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## Gypo Logger (Oct 31, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> That guy shared a lot of good information ,when is his parole hearing to let him back ?


Brian, is Butch mentoring you now? Lol


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 31, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> Brian, is Butch mentoring you now? Lol


Was talking about Brush Ape sir ,not Butch ,i never got to see the end of his chain sharpening stand he crafted up ,it was a pretty slick setup ,he actually had a lot of good information,was pretty good making stuff out of his milled wood also ,but the haters ran him off .

Have not seen Butch for a while now ,my log in does not work on his site anymore ,so hard to talk to him at all .


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## bnmc98 (Oct 31, 2015)

woodchipper95 said:


> Well to anyone who cares, or those who clearly didn't want me to, I passed.... with a 98% I had a two point to deduction for taking one of my hands off the saw without the chain break activated. View attachment 457471



All I can say is WOW WOW. Don't sweat two points for that. I remember when the FS taught me saw safety. You put the brake on every time you move. When I first got started in production falling I would do that. Until the logger that was training me said "if you keep doing that I will go crazy, knock that FS crap off" I stopped and have never worried about it since. Time waster. Not any safer either. Fear based. The saws have trigger safety's. and its not going to kick back while you are walking unless you hold it out in front of you while you are walking and are pulling the throttle and shove it into something. Maybe someone does that, but not me. 

Insurance and liability dictate a lot of safety procedures in my opinion (not safety).

Nice stump btw. I get one that looks like that maybe 1 time a year


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## svk (Oct 31, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> That guy shared a lot of good information ,when is his parole hearing to let him back ?


BA isn't coming back unless he goes directly to Darin and somehow convinces him to get a 100th second chance.

You guys didn't see the bad stuff he put up because it was cleaned up before very many saw it.


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 31, 2015)

I got an Arbutus I need to remove thats cranked over my budies shead on a hill.I cleaned up around it the other day and its about last to go.
I just arrived and will deal with it.
There is a few ways to handle it that I can be 100% damage free.
It's very heavy wood and grows on angles naturally. They are now just protected on the Island as there is a thin vein of them on east coast of South end of the island.
Just came to mind??

Thinking I'll take a pic for our scentless apprentice and see what he can come up with...without climbing gear its actually an interesting one.
Lots of variables as you will see
If it was about any other species I could be 100% that the top at least would stay sidehill above another tree but they start to fall and gravity sucks them hard. I'm sure with a "Johnny hold me tight" and to place the cut ...You know we're...(not to help the apprentice at this time) but I can't be sure 100%. Dam sure but that's not good enough. I did just finish a month contract Falling for properties in Victoria and it did have this bendy Arbutus all through the fir
and cedar. I tried to keep in lay so I didn't have to go down rocky drops to buck and limb for 20' containers. I didn't waist time walking up and dropping them in 30 sec. (Cuts like butter) Ican always process a few bitcky ones when the hoe puts 'em aside as I have a saw down there to limb out my forth side and such a few times a day. Obviously it isn't a spesies I have tested with anything but three precise cuts. Inexperienced basically with that timber type. Payed enough tention only to not try and do a straight fall.
I will write more on the particulars
with a pic In a bit. I set a shity springboard in it the other day so I could reach up and get some wait of of it. They fork out and don't get very big. This is probably medium to what I have ever seen here.
180° off the lean is a fence about 30' high side. See what all you guys think when all info is in and after young guns has a shot before we haze him more...lol

Congratulations young guns..looks like you got some skills...now of course is is the painfull part. This is where I crush you like a bug and point grade your work on what you have shared thus far through BC Fallers Training standards.
Do you have a pic of the wedge? did they mesure it? I'll grade your stump to see if it meets standards. I can scale it of the pic
You got skills...great job
..now the 'hard part.
Please help out with the tree problem and I'll post pic in a minute


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## northmanlogging (Oct 31, 2015)

svk said:


> Who is northbear?
> 
> The only member on the mods radar right now is the guy who showed up in chainsaw a few days ago acting like BA.



Its an inside joke... something about a bar fight and rubbish bins... 



woodchipper95 said:


> Well to anyone who cares, or those who clearly didn't want me to, I passed.... with a 98% I had a two point to deduction for taking one of my hands off the saw without the chain break activated. I was one of two students out of seventeen to fell their tree on the pin. I didn't get a free saw BUT I did get a new hard hat, chaps, and a dolmar felling/safety jacket.
> 
> What did I learn? The dolmar 5105 is HEAVY for a 50cc saw, but has balls to justify it's weight. The 7910 isn't bad and is a modest performer. The star tron is a JOKE compared to ethanol shield. View attachment 457471



Chain brakes are a little overrated for safety... if the idle is set right, you learn to keep yer hands off the throttle and always remember where that bar is nothing to worry about. The brake is a life safer when it comes to kick back though... and if you ever find yourself climbing a tree and limbing as you go, then the chain brake is kinda nice... or any awkward postion, or handing a saw off to another guy... or whatever...

Personally I hardly ever use em... mostly they get set when the saw lands heavy on some thing and irritates me, or when someone else has been using my saws... which is rare, they like to set the brake when its not running? (though chances are they are just messing with me)


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## treeslayer2003 (Oct 31, 2015)

svk, i thought you was MFM untill the last post lol.
all BS aside, the young man is doing well and i take nothing from him.........but, what he don't realize is that he is no farther along than most of us at his age. and he dosen't get the respect of a man 3 times his age yet. not that he gets disrespect either.
also chipper, since you seem to want to learn, GOL is not the only way to fall a tree, nor is it always best. i don't want you to think that since you took this course that you now know whats up and can't get hurt.


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## slowp (Oct 31, 2015)

svk said:


> Keep trolling.



Define trolling please. It seems like anything not favorable to you is labeled trolling. Really. A definition is needed. Did you read the rest of my post? It was right on topic although you wouldn't ever agree with it. 

Now, to NORTHMAN. Did you see that when I set the brake on my saw, it saved an idiot from getting his hand cut off when he went to grab my bar on my running saw?
I think that makes my habit of setting it so much worthwhile. It's a habit. I have no idea and don't want to find out, what kind of mess we would have had. Ick. Maybe
the GOL guy would have been quick with his axe handle and prevented the carnage. I'm glad we didn't have to find out.


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## Gypo Logger (Oct 31, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Was talking about Brush Ape sir ,not Butch ,i never got to see the end of his chain sharpening stand he crafted up ,it was a pretty slick setup ,he actually had a lot of good information,was pretty good making stuff out of his milled wood also ,but the haters ran him off .
> 
> Have not seen Butch for a while now ,my log in does not work on his site anymore ,so hard to talk to him at all .


Lol, was meaning your avatar.
I tried to join the treehousers, but Butch wouldn't let me join.
I guess he doesn't want any culls over there. Lol


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 31, 2015)

woodchipper95 said:


> View attachment 457472
> Her is my stump.


K ..I don't see a compression mark in the undercut so generally it would make a mark even if it was adequate. No mark says you got a big mouth...lol. *credited ..a perfect stump is 15 points, 12 is the lowest that is exceptable with WCB of BC standards. I can't tell if back cut is flat..?? Looks like it. If you can roll a pen down it then its no good. We will credit you anyway.
Even holding wood across...good.
Even step....this one is hard to due as it needs to be 1/4 or better from one side to the other...yours looks in there.
For Cottonwood the preferred undercut is a pie or birds mouth. So I point deduction
That's a good step height for a humbult but they want a two inch step on conventional so now it's its a 13/15
Which is good all day long.
No Dutchman...Blind Dutchman???? That's a bypass cut and the flat stop will be an the butt.
Looks like you cleaned the undercut so we will call it three precise cuts.
Under cut depth needs to be 33% and 25% on a wedged tree and UP TO 25% on heavy leaner OR whatever it will take...there is some wiggle room 25% - 43% and
and wedged is 23% to 28%
Even on a wedge tree which its not... you need 23% and your UC is stretching 20% ..unfortunately this one was an automatic failed stump.
Lots of promise man.
You got 98% today
Awesome


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## treeslayer2003 (Oct 31, 2015)

boaster, i'm pretty sure they preach super shallow face in that GOL class.......n they don't back cut, they cut out toward the back.


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## woodchipper95 (Oct 31, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> I got an Arbutus I need to remove thats cranked over my budies shead on a hill.I cleaned up around it the other day and its about last to go.
> I just arrived and will deal with it.
> There is a few ways to handle it that I can be 100% damage free.
> It's very heavy wood and grows on angles naturally. They are now just protected on the Island as there is a thin vein of them on east coast of South end of the island.
> ...


I do not have a picture of my wedge but they call it an "open face" I come down almost parallel with the trunk, then meet that with a slightly upward angle cut. I then plunge about a half inch higher than my wedge. I start my plunge about 2-3 inches back from my final hinge thickness. I then set my hinge and out the back I go. If I use a wedge or have a tree that is to big for a single plunge... I plunge a smidge over half the diameter of the tree place my wedge give it a good few wacks, then plunge the other side meeting my plunge meeting my original and out the back I go...


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## woodchipper95 (Oct 31, 2015)

Correct that is what I did. Its a pretty nice fell... once you get the plunge technique down.

@treeslayer2003


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## woodchipper95 (Oct 31, 2015)

slowp said:


> Define trolling please. It seems like anything not favorable to you is labeled trolling. Really. A definition is needed. Did you read the rest of my post? It was right on topic although you wouldn't ever agree with it.
> 
> Now, to NORTHMAN. Did you see that when I set the brake on my saw, it saved an idiot from getting his hand cut off when he went to grab my bar on my running saw?
> I think that makes my habit of setting it so much worthwhile. It's a habit. I have no idea and don't want to find out, what kind of mess we would have had. Ick. Maybe
> the GOL guy would have been quick with his axe handle and prevented the carnage. I'm glad we didn't have to find out.


Kid you not, my saw was in my plunge, just wanted to verify my hing thickness on the far side and he reached in and put my chain beak on..... "-2"


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 31, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> boaster, i'm pretty sure they preach super shallow face in that GOL class.......n they don't back cut, they cut out toward the back.


ok...98% today, I can't grade him seriously on...BC $hit.
Pictures now


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 31, 2015)




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## Westboastfaller (Oct 31, 2015)

K.....you got a fence20' up on the highside.
You got a bottle jack wedges rope a truck you can pull from over the fence but the tree is 40' long and fence is 20' away you can free fall but the tree top needs to be about a ft higher up the bank than it's stump you see.
The little fir tree is straight up and down so you got a good idea of the lean. The tree is on a edge of a drop above the shead about eight ft away. what you going to do
???call a friend...lol


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## Gologit (Oct 31, 2015)

woodchipper95 said:


> I do not have a picture of my wedge but they call it an "open face" I come down almost parallel with the trunk, then meet that with a slightly upward angle cut. I then plunge about a half inch higher than my wedge. I start my plunge about 2-3 inches back from my final hinge thickness. I then set my hinge and out the back I go. If I use a wedge or have a tree that is to big for a single plunge... I plunge a smidge over half the diameter of the tree place my wedge give it a good few wacks, then plunge the other side meeting my plunge meeting my original and out the back I go...



They had you cut just one tree? Too bad they couldn't have had you cut several.


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## woodchipper95 (Oct 31, 2015)

Gologit said:


> They had you cut just one tree? Too bad they couldn't have had you cut several.


we had 23 people 1 instructor...


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## bitzer (Oct 31, 2015)

woodchipper95 said:


> View attachment 457472
> Her is my stump.


 Whats with the axe marks on the stump? Wedges are what you use to tip the tree over by pounding them in. You face the tree where you want it to go. The thing about that style of cutting is you are not reading what the tree is doing. Its a starting point. Kind of a prologue. If you want to learn to manipulate and control your tree thats a bigger part of the story. Gol is kind of like having yer training wheels on.


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## madhatte (Oct 31, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> lol, i herd about that. and yes, it will go wrong only when there is a camera about.
> Nate did you fix that saw? 064 weren't it?



It's mostly fixed. Turned out I sheared a woodruff key rather than busting a crank. It slips from time to time but it's a 2 minute fix when it happens. I'll get a new one when it occurs to me.


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## SliverPicker (Oct 31, 2015)

Good job Chipper. Keep learning and keep refining your technique. Get tunnel vision and focus on where you want to be not where you are or where you've been. Filter out everything else. Prepare to "replan" when necessary. Focus on a goal.

KEEP AN OPENED MIND. Insight can come from the most unlikely sources.

There's a metric shite ton of knowledge on this site. Take advantage whenever you can. 

Be relentless and believe in yourself.

Nothing worthwhile is easy and nothing worthwhile is free.

OK. I'm off of my soapbox.

Good job so far. 

Get 'er done, son.


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## SliverPicker (Oct 31, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Seems like the guys that have been doing the same thing, and I mean the exact same thing for 5 or more years ***** the most and work the least, or is it just me?



No, its not just you.

I hope I never fall into that trap, but I tend to refine may ways in tiny steps so from the outside it may seem that I am stuck in my ways a bit too much.


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## woodchipper95 (Oct 31, 2015)

bitzer said:


> Whats with the axe marks on the stump? Wedges are what you use to tip the tree over by pounding them in. You face the tree where you want it to go. The thing about that style of cutting is you are not reading what the tree is doing. Its a starting point. Kind of a prologue. If you want to learn to manipulate and control your tree thats a bigger part of the story. Gol is kind of like having yer training wheels on.


My stump was the first so people stuck their axe in it a few times haha. I know how to use wedges..................... none were used on this tree..............


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 31, 2015)

So you missed your chain brake while checking your corner...that sucks..close
Do they make you go around the back ?
The tree is dead, I did it tonight. do you want to suggest how you would have approached it?? Or let these guys comment on it?..its all good either way??????


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## madhatte (Oct 31, 2015)

One more time for the folks in the class not paying attention: GOL training is a very solid basic introduction to how to put a tree down safely. It is neither a production method, nor the only way to cut trees, and should be regarded as only one of the many tools in the box for all of the many kinds of problems and situations that come up while cutting. Woodchipper95: good on you for making a nice stump. Keep doing that. Learn from your mistakes, and also from the rest of our mistakes as we post them here and talk about them. I very seldom screw something up without posting it here for critique and analysis, and I never fail to learn something from the effort. I also pass this learning on to my crews every year in the form of "Well, here's how I screwed this thing up the last time I tried it, don't do what I did".


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## woodchipper95 (Nov 1, 2015)

Hard to tell from the pictures, looks pretty screwy thats for sure... I couldn't even begin to tell you how I would cut it, without being there in person. 


Westboastfaller said:


> So you missed your chain brake while checking your corner...that sucks..close
> Do they make you go around the back ?
> The tree is dead, I did it tonight. do you want to suggest how you would have approached it?? Or let these guys comment on it?..its all good either way??????


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## Gypo Logger (Nov 1, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> I got an Arbutus I need to remove thats cranked over my budies shead on a hill.I cleaned up around it the other day and its about last to go.
> I just arrived and will deal with it.
> There is a few ways to handle it that I can be 100% damage free.
> It's very heavy wood and grows on angles naturally. They are now just protected on the Island as there is a thin vein of them on east coast of South end of the island.
> ...


Yes! Arbutus, a real sexy tree. The natives called it Naked Lady. Arbutus is the only broad leaf evergreen, that not only sheds it's bark, but also flowers in the spring. It is a protected species in some parts and is also known as Texas Madrone.
Like alder, it corkscrews to the sky, and is a thing of beauty when seen in a pure stand.


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 1, 2015)

Madrone...that's right. It died. They are protected here but they all needed to die because its will need to get subdivide one day.


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## slowp (Nov 1, 2015)

woodchipper95 said:


> we had 23 people 1 instructor...



Yup, too large of a class size. They really need to shrink it down and go for quality instead of quantity.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 1, 2015)

madhatte said:


> It's mostly fixed. Turned out I sheared a woodruff key rather than busting a crank. It slips from time to time but it's a 2 minute fix when it happens. I'll get a new one when it occurs to me.


Nate i had one do that. the fix is simple, valve lapping compound. put some in the fly wheel socket and rock it back n forth a bit until it feels smooth, then clean it off with carb cleaner. use a new key and snug it up good.
see the key only indexes the wheel to the shaft, its the friction that locks it there. your wheel wore a little bit when it happened and now don't quite fit exact. the compound fix only takes a few minutes.


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 1, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> Nate i had one do that. the fix is simple, valve lapping compound. put some in the fly wheel socket and rock it back n forth a bit until it feels smooth, then clean it off with carb cleaner. use a new key and snug it up good.
> see the key only indexes the wheel to the shaft, its the friction that locks it there. your wheel wore a little bit when it happened and now don't quite fit exact. the compound fix only takes a few minutes.




K...Slayerman

What do you think you might do to get the Arbutus down with out climing gear.With the info I provided in post before and after the pics?
I realize you are not there but plausable possibilitys? It can only land in one direction but its a few feet swing up hill to clear the cedar to lock in the top.The butt can still spring off the bank and destroy the shed. I will say it didn't go to plan last night. and will share more.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 1, 2015)

so hard to say with out being there......and i don't know that wood. with out knowing, probably would block out the holding side for more flex and snipe the top to hold to the stump longer. looked like alot of lean........
i try like hell to not be foolin around with yard trees. i guess ideally, if i had to.......long 3/4 cable and a skidder, cripple it up and break it off with the skidder  you did ask how i would bro lol.
my typical falling, if i do mess up and the stick don't follow lay, worst i have to do is clean up sticks from an smz or alter my skid trail.



sure hope you ain't gonna be workin on a shed next week.........


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 1, 2015)

curious, you boys on the other side, how do you deal with splity wood that leans hard? compression wood elimination by gutting or very deep face is normally my way.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 1, 2015)

Alders is our splitty wood... like beech I guess?

for falling with the lean, make as deep a face as you can, which isn't much, then coos em, would be my preffered

For side lean, I'll face em normal, maybe put in a swiz, depending on how hard of a lean, then usually just pound through the back side, A good sharp chain on a medium alder its almost too easy... 

For back leaners, yer pretty much looking at rigging and pulling, alders lean hard regardless of which way, its rare to find one with less then 5 deg of lean, normally you'de be looking at 10-20 deg of lean.

Generally speaking though, a triangle coos gets it done.


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## SliverPicker (Nov 1, 2015)

Not much splintery here unless its green and really leaning hard. I almost always just gut 'em out. If they are about 8" or smaller I usually put in a normal face and then cut fast from the back.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 1, 2015)

Yup... little dancing bear for ya


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## SliverPicker (Nov 1, 2015)

Northy, I am betting you are tempted most of the time to just cut one handed, aren't you?


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 1, 2015)

i have tried a few different ways......including gol, won't try that again lol...........the best for me here is to gut it. and im speaking of large hardwood, 40 degrees or more and some times partially uprooted.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 1, 2015)

the alder dies before it gets real big, but our maples can get massive, they do what they are told most of the time though, just have really brittle branches...

And while I can run the 461's one handed... its not something I would advice or choose to do often


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## madhatte (Nov 1, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> Nate i had one do that. the fix is simple, valve lapping compound. put some in the fly wheel socket and rock it back n forth a bit until it feels smooth, then clean it off with carb cleaner. use a new key and snug it up good.
> see the key only indexes the wheel to the shaft, its the friction that locks it there. your wheel wore a little bit when it happened and now don't quite fit exact. the compound fix only takes a few minutes.



Solid advice. I might just have a thing of Clover lapping compound still from the last time I did a set of heads.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 1, 2015)

last winter i cut a big tulip like my avatar, 40"+ partial uproot, hard lean. i knew i wouldn't get much face so i thought i would try to gol it. the tension wood started to split vertically in front of my nose way before i could saw out the back. of course it was rocking in the root ball at the same time. i lost about 4' of wood.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 1, 2015)

madhatte said:


> Solid advice. I might just have a thing of Clover lapping compound still from the last time I did a set of heads.


i can't take credit, terrmitebuffet came up with it.


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## SliverPicker (Nov 1, 2015)

I rarely see anything leaning more than about 25 degrees. By the time they are tilted more than that they are on the ground without my help.


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## Bwildered (Nov 2, 2015)

slowp said:


> Here are pictures of the cutting of the big tree. Maybe you fallers can figure out what went wrong. I think it had something to do with more rot in the tree than estimated.
> View attachment 456962
> View attachment 456963
> View attachment 456965
> View attachment 456966


the backcut seems to be way too high in relation to the scarf, maybe thats the norm over there? our training techniques in a rotten or hollow tree would have had a lower backcut with the deepest permissible scarf, a leaner would be bored from the hinge to the rear.
fangst


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 2, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> so hard to say with out being there......and i don't know that wood. with out knowing, probably would block out the holding side for more flex and snipe the top to hold to the stump longer. looked like alot of lean........
> i try like hell to not be foolin around with yard trees. i guess ideally, if i had to.......long 3/4 cable and a skidder, cripple it up and break it off with the skidder  you did ask how i would bro lol.
> my typical falling, if i do mess up and the stick don't follow lay, worst i have to do is clean up sticks from an smz or alter my skid trail.
> 
> ...


Haha .. For sure..you guys are not here so..there really isn't any wrong answer. We can't break the shead over the internet. It's for entertainment value anyways.
OK and the odd bad answer dosen't tip the scale..not even close. I change my answer to agree with you on this thread. You were sharper than I that day...all good. I'm like most Fallers, that we can test fibres to the max on our wood because we don't have obstruction in our way. Some guys only have worked live wire or residential ( res) work and will never learn the capabilities of the lower fibers. This tree had one part of the upper stem offset 5' from the top of base to the low side.
I guess you do what you can to make it 100% or don't do it at all I have learnt. So there would be a place to put your skidder and run a line in the one direction open. You would need a block or you would only pull the tree into the cedar & hemlock.
Don't know how you are getting your line up the tree? Could put the line low but dosen't control it. Also the butt needs to be tied highside '90°' off the direction of fall to the butt so it doesn't spring over the bank and into the shead.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 2, 2015)

stand on the arch and hook high as i can reach..........like ya say thats sketchy lol. done it in woods on boundary and smz........not like cutting around buildings.

so...........how did you make out with it? bad deal?


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 2, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> I have lived on east and west coast ,out west the people are a lot different than back east ,back east they seemed friendlier than here ,may just been where i ended up here ,but seems like more people like each other on the rh coast than here .


i can't say i agree with ya bro. granted, you live there but the folks i'v met on here seem as friendly as any where. i have to say, about half the population here are truly A holes. don't seem to matter if they are implants or from old family's
seems to be more of a generation thing around here.
besides......you are there, and friendly lol.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 2, 2015)

Folks out here are mostly just paranoid.

Once you get to know em its not so bad... the lack of sunlight or just being rained on makes everyone feel like your in a really bad horror film with a poor budget and no plot, just plodding. Everyday plodding to work, plodding through work, plodding home, plodding to the crapper, plodding to the bank... plodding through puddles.

Then some wise ass from NEW YORK CITY! comes along bitching about how nice a day it is... kinda makes you wanna punch em in the fun parts.


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## bnmc98 (Nov 2, 2015)

I once walked the Seattle waterfont and decided to do a little test. I said "hi" to ten people. ONE said hi back to me. Most wouldn't even look at me.

I think they thought I was some wierdo


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 3, 2015)

Not bad ...but a few mistakes and ended up getting dark by the time it was down. My plan was to pull it off the lean 180° with a jack or use my truck from over the fence by hanging
a rope by tying a block and throwing it through the high crotch then pull it plumb then set wedges to hold and redirect to fall in the hole. I went with the bottle jack with the same concept and put a low undercut in. Sounds good right??


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 3, 2015)




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## Trx250r180 (Nov 3, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 458127


If using that small automotive jack,i would weld a metal foot or plate to the top so it does not sink in the tree when jacking ,i have one similar to that but bigger made for semi trucks ,that is closest i have found if a silvey not availible


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## bitzer (Nov 3, 2015)

I'll bet I could get 9 out if 10 to sat hi here if not 10 for 10.


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## treeslayer2003 (Nov 3, 2015)

shoot its much smaller than i thought. i hate small sticks, not got much to work with.


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## slowp (Nov 3, 2015)

bnmc98 said:


> I once walked the Seattle waterfont and decided to do a little test. I said "hi" to ten people. ONE said hi back to me. Most wouldn't even look at me.
> 
> I think they thought I was some wierdo



70% of the people in this state are not from here. That may be higher in Seattle. But whatever it is, don't move here, too many people are. Chances are they have earbuds going with tunes and didn't hear you. 

I am not particularly "friendly". Introverts are not usually going to be slobbering all over you right off. Many of us are of Scandihoovian ancestory, and were taught to keep out of other people's business--leave folks be.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 3, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 458127


Have you got an estimate on how much the roof repair is going to be ?


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 3, 2015)

Right Brian, good thing to do but this was not mine,
So..big mistake when you commit to a plan with untested equipment. The jack was dry so I tried to put so fluid in but didn't work and it was getting dark.
Because I took it 180° of the lean it was now the wrong angle to pull from over the fence with my truck as it would break the holding wood. I did end up removing the jack and was able to wedge out sideways from the middle burrying the 12" then throwing a rope up, tied back to a stump on the high side and made a poor mans come-a-long "poor mans") with a boulin on the bite. That's done pushing on the rope sideway with three people in this case.
I wasn't sure a would be able to wedge it but normally I would have backcut first with a small U/C then gone higher and repeated then higher with a redirect. (No rope or jack needed.) I didn't plan for back up plans and used untested equipment.
So mistakes for sure.
BTW ...what kind of fluid would that jack take...Beer???no...

The saga continues....


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## Rev (Nov 3, 2015)

slowp said:


> Define trolling please. It seems like anything not favorable to you is labeled trolling. Really. A definition is needed. Did you read the rest of my post? It was right on topic although you wouldn't ever agree with it.



He was making the present perfect verb clause, "To Troll," synonymous with the compound noun, "Passive-Aggression;" what you were actually attempting to employ. Verbs sometimes don't predicate to subjects as readily in English as in some of the other Germanic branches.

Passive-aggressive tendencies are borne straight outta the troll's toolbox. lol Honest mistake...


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 3, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> Right Brian, good thing to do but this was not mine,
> So..big mistake when you commit to a plan with untested equipment. The jack was dry so I tried to put so fluid in but didn't work and it was getting dark.
> Because I took it 180° of the lean it was now the wrong angle to pull from over the fence with my truck as it would break the holding wood. I did end up removing the jack and was able to wedge out sideways from the middle burrying the 12" then throwing a rope up, tied back to a stump on the high side and made a poor mans come-a-long "poor mans") with a boulin on the bite. That's done pushing on the rope sideway with three people in this case.
> I wasn't sure a would be able to wedge it but normally I would have backcut first with a small U/C then gone higher and repeated then higher with a redirect. (No rope or jack needed.) I didn't plan for back up plans and used untested equipment.
> ...


beer is hydraulic and will work for a fluid in a pinch ,auto trans fluid is same viscosity so good choice if have some ,your bar oil would work in a pinch but a little thick ,you do what you gotta do when you have to sometimes ,i am lazy so i do not try to flip trees leaning that bad 180 with wedges ,i know it can be done ,but i do not like to sweat if can avoid it ,i would rather tie my pickup to another point and use the winch or a cable and a block or 2 and pull it over


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