# Full Chisel vs Semi Chisel?



## eriklane (Aug 12, 2011)

Husky 394 and I cut 5-8 cords a year of any type wood. I'd blindly gone out and gotten all full chisel chains, now wondering if I should get semi-chisel also and then use the full chisel only on softer or green woods, and save the semi chisel for the dead or frozen stuff(not that I cut much frozen).???


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## sunfish (Aug 12, 2011)

I cut around 15 cords of dead oak a year. Semi-chisel works MUCH better for me! 

I do use full chisel a bit, but only in clean, green wood.


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## gallegosmike (Aug 12, 2011)

My cutting per year is all over the place for firewood. I do use semi-chisel for all most of my cutting. On the "rare" occasion that the dirty little trees that I cut for firewood get a nice monsoon "bath". I switch over to full chisel chain and have at it! LOL

Dirty wood = semi-chisel chain

Clean wood = full-chisel chain

My .02

Mike
I


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## Streblerm (Aug 12, 2011)

Chisel is fine if the wood is clean, as a matter of fact it is great. If the wood is dirty that is where the semi will shine. Use what you have and maybe try a loop of semi next time and see what you like better. Much of the wood I get has been skidded with a skid steer. Chisel chain only cuts better for a few cuts and then it is pretty much the same as semi in dirty wood. I usually will sharpen chisel every tank or two of fuel. I usually get 3-4 tanks out of semi chisel before it needs touched up.

This could be my imagination, but i think semi chisel might be easier to sharpen. I'm not sure if it is a function of the chain design or if the working corner just doesn't get beat quite as hard.


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## Hedgerow (Aug 12, 2011)

eriklane said:


> Husky 394 and I cut 5-8 cords a year of any type wood. I'd blindly gone out and gotten all full chisel chains, now wondering if I should get semi-chisel also and then use the full chisel only on softer or green woods, and save the semi chisel for the dead or frozen stuff(not that I cut much frozen).???


 
Using a 394? Maybe a 24" bar??? I'll go out on a limb and say "use whatever you got on hand"... Take the rakers down to ~.030 and fear no wood!!!


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## sunfish (Aug 12, 2011)

Streblerm said:


> This could be my imagination, but i think semi chisel might be easier to sharpen. I'm not sure if it is a function of the chain design or if the working corner just doesn't get beat quite as hard.


 
Not your imagination. Semi-chisel was designed to be easier to sharpen and stay sharp longer.

When the sharp corner of a chisel cutter gets roached, the cutter much be sharpened back until the corner is sharp again. Sometimes ya got to file it back a good ways to do this.


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## Hedgerow (Aug 12, 2011)

sunfish said:


> Not your imagination. Semi-chisel was designed to be easier to sharpen and stay sharp longer.
> 
> When the sharp corner of a chisel cutter gets roached, the cutter much be sharpened back until the corner is sharp again. Sometimes ya got to file it back a good ways to do this.


 
This is true... I hit a floor jack with 3 of my right side cutters the other day and has been 2 sharpenings now and still not completely gone... And no Don... You can't ask how I hit the floor jack with just 3 cutters...:msp_rolleyes:


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## WoodChuck'r (Aug 12, 2011)

eriklane said:


> Husky 394 and I cut 5-8 cords a year of any type wood. I'd blindly gone out and gotten all full chisel chains, now wondering if I should get semi-chisel also and then use the full chisel only on softer or green woods, and save the semi chisel for the dead or frozen stuff(not that I cut much frozen).???


 
Are you asking if you should?? Or are you suggesting that you will but you still want everyone to give their opinion......??

Either way it seems you want a response. I guess I don't know how to respond as you haven't really asked a solid question (at least that's how I'm reading it).

Mind you I'm paraphrasing here, but this is what I'm getting out of your post - "I use full chisel all the time, it's all I've used but I don't really have any issues or problems with using it. Should I use full chisel on green wood, and semi chisel for harder wood??"


It seems that you're hoping to gain something here. But if there's no problem with what you have been doing (or so it seems to me), what's the reason / purpose in changing what you're doing??? What are you looking to get out of asking....???


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## eriklane (Aug 12, 2011)

*full chisel vs semi*

I got what I wanted-I'm just learning this now, and yes, I did buy all full chisels in the last 2 yrs, going for speed without realizing the trade off.

I will buy a semi for dead/dry solid wood (not the punky crap) that's very rough on a full chisel chain, and then use full chisel only on the clean, green wood.

And I also just learned that a skip tooth chain is best for my 33" bar, and will also get that in a semi. It's rare that I'm cutting huge live trees. I've got a massive hickory now that I need to take apart and that'll do it for me.

So, the gain I'd wondered about is clear-on clean/green wood, the full chisel is fast and will hold up. On less clean or hard/dry wood, the semi will hold up longer and even last longer while cutting, thus, giving me less fits.

It's all coming clear now...


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## sunfish (Aug 12, 2011)

Hedgerow said:


> This is true... I hit a floor jack with 3 of my right side cutters the other day and has been 2 sharpenings now and still not completely gone... And no Don... You can't ask how I hit the floor jack with just 3 cutters...:msp_rolleyes:


 
Well that was goin to be my first question, but you can tell me in person some day. :msp_biggrin:


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## J.W Younger (Aug 12, 2011)

Hedgerow said:


> This is true... I hit a floor jack with 3 of my right side cutters the other day and has been 2 sharpenings now and still not completely gone... And no Don... You can't ask how I hit the floor jack with just 3 cutters...:msp_rolleyes:


 
I bet it was sumthin similar to how i knocked 3 or more off my splitter saw chain.


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## mdavlee (Aug 12, 2011)

I run all full chisel and full comp up to 32" bars. I have semi skip for the 36" bar and its all square ground. I don't have any semi chisel so I can't compare it to chisel staying sharp.


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## J.W Younger (Aug 12, 2011)

I used to run a lot of carlton semi-chisel because thats what the guy next to the liquor store had. He retired.
I noticed something cutting mostly clean wood with sc that I never seen happen with chisel, the top plate going concave from the chips honing away the softer metal underneath. The chisel may do the same thing but the point goes away and you file it before it gos that far.


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## Hedgerow (Aug 12, 2011)

J.W Younger said:


> I bet it was sumthin similar to how i knocked 3 or more off my splitter saw chain.


 
No comment... (-:


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## WoodChuck'r (Aug 12, 2011)

eriklane said:


> I got what I wanted-I'm just learning this now, and yes, I did buy all full chisels in the last 2 yrs, going for speed without realizing the trade off.
> 
> I will buy a semi for dead/dry solid wood (not the punky crap) that's very rough on a full chisel chain, and then use full chisel only on the clean, green wood.
> 
> ...


 

10-4


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## Slamm (Aug 13, 2011)

You will cookie cut faster with Chisel Chain, you will cut more wood faster with Semi-chisel as you don't/won't have to stop nearly as often to sharpen and it stays sharper longer, although it is slower/duller to begin with when compared to Chisel.

Think of Semi Chisel as a big round wave on a line graph with lower peaks and higher valleys. Where as, chisel is more peaky with higher highs and lower lows.

Or another way is semi-chisel is a man and chisel is a woman, it has its points, but its emotional, with associated highs and lows. The semi is just steady, always trying to work without the drama, headache and fuss.

Or chisel is faster and slower, Semi-chisel is in the middle always working.

Sam


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## 056 kid (Aug 13, 2011)

Lol


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## slowp (Aug 13, 2011)

Slamm said:


> You will cookie cut faster with Chisel Chain, you will cut more wood faster with Semi-chisel as you don't/won't have to stop nearly as often to sharpen and it stays sharper longer, although it is slower/duller to begin with when compared to Chisel.
> 
> Think of Semi Chisel as a big round wave on a line graph with lower peaks and higher valleys. Where as, chisel is more peaky with higher highs and lower lows.
> 
> ...



Well, seems like your body should be suffering now. 

So the semi-chisel must stand around farting, bragging, and spitting whilst the chisel is out working and getting things done? 

Let me think, emotionally and I do have a headache...coffee hasn't kicked in yet...hmmm. Don't the real PRO FALLERS use the square file chisel girly chain then? In fact, that chain is so like women that it is more efficient and gets the cut done in less time...


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## Bob Wright (Aug 13, 2011)

I too am a semi chisel fan. 30 years ago i found when the tip of the chisel got rounded a little the saw wouldn't cut good so i switched to semi. I still use some chisel i just watch what i cut with it. Now if i did cutting like the chainsaw racers do with clean pretty wood on a rack it would be chisel all the way...Bob


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## SawTroll (Aug 13, 2011)

I mostly use chisel, as most of my wood is clean and green, and seldom is skidded. :msp_smile:


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## 2dogs (Aug 13, 2011)

slowp said:


> So the semi-chisel must stand around farting, bragging, and spitting whilst the chisel is out making me a sandwhich.


 
J/K of course. You have to remember I am the man in my house. I wear the pants! I also wash the pants and iron them and repair them.


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## sunfish (Aug 13, 2011)

Actually, they *both* cut wood pretty good. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Philbert (Aug 13, 2011)

J.W Younger said:


> I noticed something cutting mostly clean wood with sc that I never seen happen with chisel, the top plate going concave from the chips honing away the softer metal underneath.



What I think that you are seeing (and you must have good eyes to see it!) is the hollow grind on the underside of the top plate, and on the side plate, from the shaped/profiled grinder wheel.









sunfish said:


> Actually, they *both* cut wood pretty good.



That's the key - keeping them properly sharpened! I most always would prefer having a sharp whatever, to a dull whatever-else.

Philbert


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## J.W Younger (Aug 13, 2011)

Philbert said:


> What I think that you are seeing (and you must have good eyes to see it!) is the hollow grind on the underside of the top plate, and on the side plate, from the shaped/profiled grinder wheel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 No, its not. What I was refering too you can see lookin down not underneath the top plate and this is not in any way to put you down but spend more tIme learning and less time teaching.
As for the hollow grind, you get that from a round file as well as a properly shaped wheel,and it may be that this contributes to the self sharpening lost with square profiles. In other words it may not be that square goes dull faster but that it does not self sharpen as well, in any case when the point is pushed down on chisel it stops cutting, period.


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## Philbert (Aug 13, 2011)

J.W Younger said:


> No, its not. What I was refering too you can see lookin down not underneath the top plate and this is not in any way to put you down but spend more tIme learning and less time teaching.





> the top plate going concave from the chips honing away the softer metal underneath.


.

Take it easy - You need to describe this better. Are you saying that when you look down at a cutter from the top the flat edge becomes concave? I have only seen this when the cutter hits something.

Philbert


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## J.W Younger (Aug 13, 2011)

Philbert said:


> .
> 
> Take it easy - You need to describe this better. Are you saying that when you look down at a cutter from the top the flat edge becomes concave? I have only seen this when the cutter hits something.
> 
> Philbert


I am taking it easy and have no malice towards you , but even tho i'm old there many things i havent seen.


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## gallegosmike (Aug 13, 2011)

I cut dirty little trees for firewood with semi-chisel chain, because filing my chain every fill up is a waste of time. I have to drive a long(140 miles round trip)ways get access to firewood on USFS land. I do not want to spend time sharpening my chain or switching out to another one. That is MY system that work for ME. Heck I would love to cut with square filed chain. But I would last about one good sized tree before all the grit and gunk would dull it out.

I am getting a feeling that this is more of time efficiency discussion then a full chisel vs. semi-chisel. 

If I could go on to and cut the nice big white furs in my back yard in national forest land. The trees get alot more rain and are "cleaner" then pinon pine & juniper that I for firewood. That few more inches of rain, plus different type of dirt. Keeps the nasty crud off the trees that eats square and round chisel chains. Be happy if you live where you get lots of rain to keep your trees nice "clean"! 

My .02

Mike


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## SawTroll (Aug 13, 2011)

No point in making a  science out of this - just try the options yourself, if you are in doubt!


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## mdavlee (Aug 13, 2011)

I do cut mostly clean wood that hasn't been skidded. I do cut some that has been skidded and I don't really notice square getting dull faster than round filed chains. They both seem to go atleast 2 tanks and some have went 6 before it was wood dull.


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## John Ellison (Aug 13, 2011)

SawTroll said:


> No point in making a  science out of this - just try the options yourself, if you are in doubt!


 
Yep, thats the only real answer. There are so many variables in wood, cutting methods, experience and just plain preferences that the best thing is to experiment with the different chains and see what works best for you.


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## wyk (Aug 13, 2011)

I actually enjoy sharpening chain. I stick with full chisel even in dirty conditions. I'll sharpen 3-4 chains per bar at home, take them to work, and swap em out as they dull if they look like they need more than a quick touch up, so very little time is wasted. Oftentimes I will do this even if they haven't gone completely dull if I happen to be on a break or lunch.


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## 056 kid (Aug 13, 2011)

i just cut trees with axes and cross cut saws.



BECAUSE they don't go dull as fast. . .


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 14, 2011)

mdavlee said:


> I do cut mostly clean wood that hasn't been skidded. I do cut some that has been skidded and I don't really notice square getting dull faster than round filed chains. They both seem to go atleast 2 tanks and some have went 6 before it was wood dull.


 
I agree. I've used both and the only difference I noticed is full chisel cuts faster. I will add that Stihl chain seems to hold an edge longer than any other brand of chain I've used.


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## Gologit (Aug 14, 2011)

John Ellison said:


> Yep, thats the only real answer. There are so many variables in wood, cutting methods, experience and just plain preferences that the best thing is to experiment with the different chains and see what works best for you.


 
Yup. It just takes a minute or two to change a chain.


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## Chris-PA (Aug 14, 2011)

Learning about chain has been my main focus recently, and this thread has been helpful. You notice all my saws are cheap homeowner saws, and It's become clear to me that as long as they are running properly then having the appropriate chain and keeping it sharp are the most important things I can do. 

After reading this thread I looked carefully at the chain on my Poulan 2775. It's got a 20" bar with Oregon 33SL chain, which is full chisel. Now I know it's said that saw has no business with a 20" bar, but in fact it rarely bogs, it just cuts real slow. So I downloaded Oregon's sheet on that chain and sharpened the it as carefully as I could, paying attention to getting the points very clean. It really helped a lot, but it still seems slow and the saw does not sound or feel like it's working very hard. Kinda like me and the saw are bored and just standing there waiting for something to happen. 

So I've decided to change to a different chain type and I'm trying to decide what to try.


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## slowp (Aug 14, 2011)

056 kid said:


> i just cut trees with axes and cross cut saws.
> 
> 
> 
> BECAUSE they don't go dull as fast. . .



That is next weekend.


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## Philbert (Aug 14, 2011)

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Learning about chain has been my main focus recently, and this thread has been helpful. You notice all my saws are cheap homeowner saws, and It's become clear to me that as long as they are running properly then having the appropriate chain and keeping it sharp are the most important things I can do.


 
It sounds simplistic, but I think that you are right on. Having a properly sharpened chain, using whatever method that works for you, is the most fundamental thing in cutting efficiently. 

We get all testosterone poisoned; focusing on more horsepower and longer bars on our *Binford* saws, but a lot of wood gets cut with Craftsman, and Poulan, and WildThing saws using sharp chain.

It reminds me of when I was learning about woodworking, and getting all caught up in bigger table saws and power tools, milling wood into submission, etc. After a while, you start to appreciate those comments your 8th grade shop teacher made about the importance of understanding the wood grain, and keeping your cutting tools sharp.

It's nice to own the nice tools, but it helps to keep those fundamentals in mind.

Philbert


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## eriklane (Aug 14, 2011)

*Skip Tooth chain*

Sounds like you'd benefit from a skip tooth chain. I've just purchased one for my 33" bar on my Husky 394 that simply doesn't pull as good as I believe it should with a regular chain. we'll see...


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## Huntand Fish (Oct 29, 2022)

Slamm said:


> You will cookie cut faster with Chisel Chain, you will cut more wood faster with Semi-chisel as you don't/won't have to stop nearly as often to sharpen and it stays sharper longer, although it is slower/duller to begin with when compared to Chisel.
> 
> Think of Semi Chisel as a big round wave on a line graph with lower peaks and higher valleys. Where as, chisel is more peaky with higher highs and lower lows.
> 
> ...


Damn that was deep. That definitely cleared up my thoughts about how the link actually looks. I’m glad you answered he question. I sharpen by hand and have only used SC to my knowledge. I had read in the past, a chisel was for clean dry hardwood. While SC was for dirty, frozen wet wood or softer wood like pines.


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## The Shooters Apprentice (Oct 29, 2022)

I think semi chisel is more common on small saws as it’s easier to pull as well. 

Full chisel or bust for me. We get a lot of river sit in our trees and I haven’t found it to be a issue. The semi chisel just cuts too rough and slow for my liking.


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## Philbert (Oct 29, 2022)

Old thread. And several other ‘full-chisel vs semi-chisel’ threads. Dug these out of a few:




Sharp corner point of full chisel cutter helps lead it into the wood. But there is little metal there and it is more easily damaged. If bent, it can push the cutter away from the wood. When sharpening, a lot of metal must be removed to restore the point. 



Conceptual drawing of how square corner of full-chisel cutter (NOT square filed!) creates a square, flat bottomed kerf. Whereas the curved corner of a semi-chisel cutter leaves a more rounded profile kerf. 

Not a big difference until you realize that some of those fibers need to be cut twice, which is less efficient. 

Philbert


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## KASH (Nov 6, 2022)

Excellent post Thanks.
Kash


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