# Central Boiler Temperature too high on furance



## LadyToysDream (Feb 2, 2009)

Hi 

Not sure if my title explains my problem or not. 

Furance installed summer 2008, started up Sept 1/08. First 2 months were rough till we fiqured out a wiring problem inside the house. 
Since then things were going along good. Plenty of heat and inside 
thermostat set at 78 most of the time. Far end of house where no 
register is in the new room, is at 70 degrees. 

Well a few days ago, he notices the furnace is staying between 196 and 200, and won't drop down. Makes sure to check everything. Set point is 185 which is a factory setting. Call the dealer and he says make sure door and damper are okay. Yup, they are. Then he thinks it's because we are not using a lot of our heat...it's going back to the furance, still hot, and each time it runs through again, it keeps building more heat. Culmative effect. Tells me to tell him to put less wood in the furnace. Keep the coals down, etc. 
Okay. So after putting no wood in it for a day, he sees the temp drop down. All good. So he puts only a few sticks in the furnace at a time. 
Yesterday he tells me we are at high temps again. This morning, we are at 200 and he tells me to to fill the washer load with hot water only. To draw down some of the heat. 
Just over 1250 sq ft here. Central NY. Cold weather. Two adults in the house. And it appears maybe our furance is too efficent ?
The furnace is set up for a second run for the garage but we don't have that line laid yet. Should we be doing that ? 

Any one else with a smiliar problem ?


----------



## projectsho89 (Feb 2, 2009)

> Then he thinks it's because we are not using a lot of our heat...it's going back to the furance, still hot, and each time it runs through again, it keeps building more heat. Culmative effect.



Impossible. You can't get more heat into the boiler because you didn't extract enough on the load side. Time to wave the BS flag on him. They don't work that way and he was blowing you off either because he didn't want to mess with it or he didn't know how to diagnose the problem. Additional heat only comes from the combustion of additional fuel.

Either you have an air leak that is allowing uncontrolled air to enter the firebox or the temperature controller has failed.

Load up stuff you know will smoke like crazy initially, let if fire a few minutes then shut down the damper and blower (if equipped), and watch the smoke plume. If there is any air getting into the firebox the smoke plume will have noticeable upward velocity. It should just meander out the stack if there is no additional draw.

If that doesn't indicate a problem, then the problem is likely the controller. Perhaps the sensor has become mispositioned. Otherwise, the unit has gone "south" and is not properly regulating the damper relative to the water temp. 

Have you turned the unit down to 175 or so and see ift is gone out of calibration by 10-15 degrees?

This should give a few things to look at.

Steve


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 2, 2009)

He did quiz me quite a bit about the door. 
Tells me it takes 2 hands to close it, especially for a female. 
Well we both can close the door one handed. 
And it appears to be a solid snug fit. 
The damper seems to be working. 

Furnace has a 25 yr warranty. 

Guess I need to be calling the dealer back again.


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 2, 2009)

Might have a couple of things to look at for you. 

I have a Central Boiler as well so at least we have that in common. I had mine ramp up in temps about 3 years ago and that time it ended up being the damper door. It had warped, just slightly and you could see it when taken of and set on a flat piece of steel. When I smashed it flat it still would not close tightly and noticed the attachment holes had "wallered" out. Called the dealer and they replaced it for free. Problem solved.

This year on start up it started acting funny and ramping up in temp again. Difference this time was that the temp went up and down FAST. Faster than I'd ever seen and didn't make any sense as it went down even when no zone valves opened, just sitting idle it did it. Called the dealer and he said it's either a bad board or loose/bad contact wire connection. I shut the furncae down and loosened and tightened every wire on the board on the inside panel(on stove) NONE seemed loose but did them all anyway. Turned it back on and it was fixed. Again, I'd only suspect this IF your temp on the gauge moved up and down fatser than it had in years past. I'm talking a degree every 30 seconds or so. Hope this helps and you can get an "easy" fix.


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Feb 2, 2009)

My problem has been the damper door solenoid...sticks open!..lubricated it well, checked door fit. The solenoid does not want to let loose and release sometimes. I also have a 5036, small house/shop. I've seen mine ramp up high, around 195-200, when it is packed full, low load, like yesterday, with 57 deg. temps. Check the damper door / lip on main door for any creosote or crud buildup.


----------



## November Wolf (Feb 2, 2009)

Its has got to be either:

1.Bad door seal
2.Damper not shutting all the way
3.Solenoid
4.Bad temp controller


----------



## blakey (Feb 2, 2009)

mtfallsmikey said:


> My problem has been the damper door solenoid...sticks open!..lubricated it well, checked door fit. The solenoid does not want to let loose and release sometimes. I also have a 5036, small house/shop. I've seen mine ramp up high, around 195-200, when it is packed full, low load, like yesterday, with 57 deg. temps. Check the damper door / lip on main door for any creosote or crud buildup.



What did you lubricate it with? Central Boiler calls for using WD40, I actually don't lubricate mine at all and it seems to work fine. I did have to replace my solenoid after about 5 yrs but that was because it wouldn't open and was blowing the fuse. Never had it stick open.


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Feb 2, 2009)

Started with WD-40, ended up using 3-in-one


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 5, 2009)

Update, 
Well hubby did what the dealer suggested. 
He put less wood in, took out the coals, let the furnace calm down. 
Furnace worked okay. Then again, it started steaming. 
Calmed down. Yesterday he tells me it's acting really good. 
Whew, I say. This morning, he comes home from work to get his 
breakfast, and tells me the furnace has been steaming since 3 am 
when he got up to get ready for work. 
So I get on the phone and am waiting for the dealer to call me back. 
This is getting real old. We don't think it is the door, but anything is 
possible. We think it might be the controller for the heat. 
He did take the hot coals out before he went back to work. He was 
not happy.


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 5, 2009)

So can I use the information from this thread ? 

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=78593


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 5, 2009)

Okay, I just got off the phone with a factory tech. 
He tells me it's either the selenoid gone bad which they replace for free, but we have to pay the dealer labor because it's something the homeowner can do himself. But first time doing something, it does take a few minutes to fiqure it out and find where things are, etc. 
Other problem it can be he tells me is that the temp controller has gone bad. That they will replace for free if under 2 yrs old, and labor will not cost us anything. There is a probe behind that if it is not in correct position he tells me will give a error reading. 
So yes it's under a year old. I think the dealer should come here and fiqure it out for us. I don't want to void our warranty if hubby accidently does something wrong. 
Very frustrating waiting on the dealer to call back. A father and son operation and one of them needs to at least call me back real soon. 
This is getting so old, so fast. 
My hubby is very good with electric stuff, but he should not have to in this situation. 
Yes we have a propane furnace we can use for back up, but I so don't want to go there. I want to downsize them next month, and get them gone. Buy our own tank/s instead.


----------



## Scootermsp (Feb 5, 2009)

*cleanout?*

Did you check the round chimney cleanout on the back of the unit to be sure it's on tight? If it's loose or missing it could allow excessive air into the firebox.


----------



## John D (Feb 6, 2009)

Your hubby is goingto have to take some time,and diagnose the problem,sit by the furnace,and watch the damper door,as it hits shut off temp,is it shutting? If so is it sealing off. There is no way the boiler is going to overheat if it isnt getting air! You have an air leak somewhere.Dont feel bad,it could be worse,you could have Shaver like me,I wish I only had your problem with mine.I spent the better part of the first 2 weeks babysitting this OWB,and working on it,even though it was brand new.


----------



## Zodiac45 (Feb 6, 2009)

LadyToysDream said:


> Hi
> 
> Central Boiler Temperature too high on furance
> 
> Not sure if my title explains my problem or not.



:monkey: Well.....Blaming it on France is.....er.....not the problem. Then again...if "furance" is a new "OWB designer drug" cleverly blended into your fuel supply, then you may have too send your boiler too rehab. At rehab, I'm guessing that you'll have (as most the others have stated) an air leak problem of the gasket or damper (controller, solenoid, etc).. type. I think Kevin in O is right on the money. Let us know when it's fixed what the deal was. Good Luck and here's hoping it's a cheap and easy fix.


----------



## Marklambert61 (Feb 6, 2009)

*Find a new dealer*

You have an air leak....

After the first call you dealer should have been out to solve your problem not just giving you lip service on the phone.

Mark


----------



## pipe76 (Feb 6, 2009)

Are you sure your pumps are circulating all the time, and not just when the house is calling for heat? If you don't circulate the pumps all the time, the temp will get to 196 to 200 when sitting idle(heat builds up , water's not moving, and when the house calls for heat, the temp will drop down to below 175, and solinoid will kick open and give it more air to burn. the solinoid will shut off at 185, and the temp will rise again.


----------



## Slick (Feb 6, 2009)

That's a good point about the pumps....the one steaming incident I had with my CB 5036 was after leaving for xmas this year, being a new OWB user (it had been running for like a week) I loaded it full and turn off all the heat exchangers other than one and that room is really insulated.... the system coudln't get rid of the heat fast enough and it got to 200 and was steaming when got back 3 days later..luckily not enough water was gone to hurt anything...I turned on the furnaces and water temp came right down but that's a good point...you either have an air leak so your making lots of heat or you just not getting enough heat out of the water and it's overshooting the set temp...


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 7, 2009)

I don't seem to be saying the right words to the dealer to get him out here to help us with this problem. He seems to think we can fiqure it out by ourselves. 
The guy who helped hubby with the inside the house, part of this installation called and talked to hubby this morning. He seems to think now, the furnace is too big for our house. We should have gotten the size smaller than this one. Which is what I questioned when we bought this furnace. 
We did mention that we might want to heat the garage when we bought the furnace and the furnace does have the right parts on it so when and if we run the second line, all we need is some pex pipe, and the heater to hang in the garage. 
Only thing we have come up with , was hubby finally dropped the temperature this morning, to 175 instead of the factory setting of 185. The last few days the furnace is behaving again. 
I don't think it's the door, because as I mentioned to the husband, if it was the door, it would seem the problem would be getting worse. 
I am thinking it might be that controller. My understanding is that the probe behind it if not seated in place correctly, might be giving a error reading to the temp controller. 
Since Sept the furnace has boiled over once, and has had a episode of steaming at least once and now this past week, had been acting up again.

The run for the pex pipe is only 26' before it goes into the heat exchanger on the hot water heater, and then into the exchanger for the inside furnace and then back out to the outside furnace 26', so a very short run.

I fiqure when I get mad again, the dealer will be getting a call from the factory about our problem. The factory told me, we should be dealing with the dealer. But if the dealer is too busy to fit us into his schedule, then maybe the factory can light a fire under him. 

Thanks for all the replies


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 7, 2009)

LadyToysDream said:


> I don't seem to be saying the right words to the dealer to get him out here to help us with this problem. He seems to think we can fiqure it out by ourselves.
> The guy who helped hubby with the inside the house, part of this installation called and talked to hubby this morning. He seems to think now, the furnace is too big for our house. We should have gotten the size smaller than this one. Which is what I questioned when we bought this furnace.
> We did mention that we might want to heat the garage when we bought the furnace and the furnace does have the right parts on it so when and if we run the second line, all we need is some pex pipe, and the heater to hang in the garage.
> Only thing we have come up with , was hubby finally dropped the temperature this morning, to 175 instead of the factory setting of 185. The last few days the furnace is behaving again.
> ...



Sounds like you found yourself a BAGA dealer, Buy And Go Away. Got his payday and he's done with the sale. I'm glad my dealer isn't like that as he's smart enough to know his buyers are HIS best salesmen he'll get. 

Yes, you need to show him the above paragraph.

Your furnace being too big is NOT the problem. The only thing bad about a bigger unit if you didn't need it is the added price. It Should NOT go up in temp even if you have it loaded completely with wood. It chokes air off to not allow it. 

My boiler can have a raging fire and it fill shut down and at MOST go up one degree. It will NOT go up if sealed up. Sounds like you ruled that out but setting the temp lower is not a solution. I'd still shut it down and loosen and retighten wires on control. If a wire isn't making good contact it can give a bad/intermitant reading that can cause things to act wierd at different times, just as you describe. You do have a good ground for the unit don't you? That can make electrics do odd things too.


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 7, 2009)

When the furnace was set up, hubby grounded it yes. 
One of the things he was extra fussy about. 

The dealer has been doing this for quite a few years. Burns wood himself, and knows this stuff backwards and forward. 
He just is taking the lazy route this time because he thinks we are going to fiqure it out ourselves, and save him from making a trip here. 
I would be setting out there myself and tracking the furnace, but the cold air really bothers me. I have arthuritis and some days it really hurts a lot. 
I also have sleep apnea so the smoke bothers my breathing a lot. 
The big reason we went with a OWB was to keep the smoke and any other smells outside. 
If and when we ever get this problem solved, I will bring this thread back to page 1 with our solution. 
The other thing I keep telling the hubby is to put less wood in it. 
He can put the wood in, more than 2x in a 24 hour period. 

Hubby likes burning wood.....he likes cutting wood. We just bought a tri axle, load of logs tuesday, for next winter supply's, and he has most of it cut already and is splitting with a ax. Today his parents come for a visit, and Dad decides he wants a load of logs delivered here. Hubby will cut it up for him, and then truck it to his house somehow. Hubby also bought a second sthl saw, this week. A used one so it would fit our budget plans. He needs a splitter but probably will end up borrowing one this year. Maybe next year we can get one


----------



## ktm rider (Feb 7, 2009)

Marklambert61 said:


> You have an air leak....
> 
> After the first call you dealer should have been out to solve your problem not just giving you lip service on the phone.
> 
> Mark



I agree, You have to have an air leak somewhere. I would say either the gasket around the door or ash pan door ( if that particular OWB has one) 
OR, the solenoid is NOT working properly. Either way you are getting unwanted air in there somewhere. 

Why not just trun down your aquastat a bit and see what happens? I would say 165 or so should still easily heat the house but make it a bit tougher for the water to boil...


----------



## JAL (Feb 8, 2009)

I had the same symptoms as you do with my CB. The OWB was overheating and steaming. The problems I found were that the circulator pump on the boiler was shutting down on thermo overload off and on and the damper flapper was not sealing properly on the door draft opening. I replaced the pump which helped somewhat. I replaced the metal damper flapper and that fixed the problems that I was having.
The damper flapper needs to be properly adjusted to seat against the door draft opening. There are two screws that mount the damper flapper to the door and elongated holes on the damper flapper mounting bracket so that there is a little "Wiggle room" in order to get a good air tight seal of the damper flapper. I adjusted mine at night by opening the door and shining a flashlight on the outside of the door and looking from the inside for air gaps.
I also had to take a file and level out the door draft opening so that the damper flapper would seal better.

On a side note: my dealer is also a :censored::censored: and a :censored:when it comes to after sales service. 
CB needs to do something about these dealers.


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 8, 2009)

This is the extra spring we found out.


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 8, 2009)

Well the dealer just left. 

No parts needed. 
He adjusted the door but only a little. So now it does take 2 hands to close it. Said he thought there was a small piece of creosote caught in the damper. 
One of those things that was easier to show someone than try to explain it over the phone. 

And had hubby let the wire loose, that holds the vent cap in place. 
It was steaming away while he was here. Had me turn heat up in the house. Went from 78 to 82 on the thermostat to draw off some heat. 
It's still up there in temperature but should come back down on it's own. 
Hopefully our problem is solved. 
Set the temperature to 180 instead of the 185.

I think he is selling the business after doing it about 14 yrs, so he can retire.
I think it has got a bit too big for him to handle. And his son who helps him, does not seem to want the responsibility of all of it on his own. So someone else must be trying to buy it now.

Hubby asked what we owed and he said no charge.
Thank goodness.


----------



## November Wolf (Feb 8, 2009)

Did you find out what the deal is with that spring? 

Hopefully you have the problem solved. Good luck.


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 8, 2009)

The spring is supposed to be a spare one. That's where the factory hung it. There is also a spare fuse tucked in that area. 
It sure looked odd when hubby opened that outside part of the damper.

Also the dealer mentioned that we might be getting a bit of a back draft through the chimney. We had a wicked cold wind this morning out of the north. It would not happen all the time but every once in awhile. 

And to pull the wood real close to the door. REAL CLOSE he says.

( The furnace was steaming this morning again. I waited till 9 am to call the dealer. And he said to give him a hour and he would be here. It was at 209 when he got here, so he got to see it misbehaving )


----------



## November Wolf (Feb 8, 2009)

I Just took mine apart for the fun of it and mine did not have that spare spring on it. But I can see that having an extra spring would come in handy. I think I am going to get me some spare parts for mine just in case I may need something down the road.

Let us know how your OWB is working after a few days.


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Feb 9, 2009)

Don't have a spring on mine at all...does the IPL show one? I replaced my solenoid ($35 from local hdwe./elec. supply) yesterday...been having intermittent problems with it sticking open, scraped some creo. from the damper and door.A real strong fire, even when door is closed, can "overpower" and ramp the temp. too high, especially with a light load. Weather is going to be warm here most of the week, don't need 185 deg. water..backing down to 170.


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 9, 2009)

mtfallsmikey, hi , what is a IPL ?
A few posts prior to this, I showed a picture of the damper door from the outside view with the shield off. It sure looked odd with the spare spring hanging there. In a little hole that was drilled out to hang it from. So at first glance looked like it was supposed to be hooked up to something but wasn't. 
Also the dealer said there was a extra fuse there, but I did not see it myself as he was standing in front of the door. I just took note in my head, that yes there was a spare part and where it was to be found if needed. And or maybe he meant the fuse was in the plastic bag that held our bookwork on this furnace. 
Which is where I think I saw it.
Which sometime this morning, I think I will double check that bag. It would be our luck to need the fuse, and I would have a fun time chasing it down.
The dealer did say that the door should be kept clean. If creosote does build it, it should be scraped off. We did have a little creosote run down the outside part of the front because the door had the air leak on the side where the handle is. Now that I think back on this, when his son brought the furnace here, he never checked the door to make sure it was closing correctly. Which in our case, it wasn't. It does take 2 hands to finish the closing of the latch. 
Which we had no way of knowing what was correct or not correct, because this is our first year with this furnace. 
I am trying to think of date of manufacture of this furnace. Probably the factory would tell me from the serial number. When we started looking at furnaces in May of last year, this one was on the dealer's lot. Someone had wanted it, but had not put any money down on it. We ended up with it because the dealer was getting ready to order another load of furnaces and said that guy could have one off the new order. My guess is this furance was made in the spring of 08. Now my curiousity is up and sometime this morning, I think I will call the factory and get the manufacture date if at all possible.

NOVEMBER WOLF, hi, 
I can come back to the thread in a few days and update , yes


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Feb 9, 2009)

Illustrated
Parts 
List


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 9, 2009)

IPL number is 6869 for a CL 4030, CL 5036, or SCL 5036 models. 
Info in our book is located on pg 38-39, section 6, general information in the manual. The part arrow is pointing to the space where the spring is. Not sure if the spring is another number or not. Or if that area is all one part number. 

I am waiting on a call back from the factory to get the date of manufacture on our unit.


----------



## blakey (Feb 9, 2009)

My Central Boiler has the date of manufacture stamped on the tag on the front of the unit.


----------



## Jon E (Feb 9, 2009)

My CB5648 steams off every once in a while, and it's always because the solenoid and damper door has some crud built up on it and causes the damper door to stick open. The first time I figured it out, I had noticed the steam and the temperature at 211/212 degrees, and opened the door. As soon as I pulled the handle, I heard a 'clank' from the door. After it happened the second time, I looked through the damper baffle before I touched the door and I could see right into the firebox. I smacked the door while looking and watched the damper drop off the solenoid and go 'clank'. A bit of cleaning, and a generous amount of lubricant and it has been fine most of the winter.

I also have learned that in warmer weather, it's best to keep the set temperature low. I keep mine at 180 during the dead of winter, but now that we are getting some daytime temeratures in the 40's, I will probably drop it to 172-174 until spring, and then about 165 for the summer. If the temperature set point is too high in warm weather, it will steam off just from residual heat. I burn all year for domestic hot water, so I try to optimize my burn cycles even when it's hot out.


----------



## LadyToysDream (Feb 9, 2009)

blakey, thanks  
Found the date of manufacture on front of furnace. May 2008

Jon E , 
I think the hubby wants the furnace to run year round. He really likes the hot water part of it.....it's nice. I can run load of wash in hot water, do the dishes, and he can still take a bath or shower and all of this within a short period of time. No worrying what the other one is doing with the hot water.


----------



## LadyToysDream (Oct 1, 2012)

Hi  

I found this old thread of mine while doing a search for furnace door problem. 
So bringing the info up to date, and with a new problem. 

Not sure when without looking up dates, but we had to have a guy come out 
and help us with the door awhile back. We did get a new gasket for it.
It worked fine all last winter. 

So we fired up the furnace part way through Steptember and things were 
going along smooth. Till late afternoon today, when he comes in and tells
me the newest problem with the door. The handle is loose. And where 
the screw threads into the door frame, it appears to be stripped. So now the door won't stay latched. I will be calling the factory in the morning to see 
about getting a new door. Supposed to be a 25 year warranty on this unit. 
It better cover a new door. Where the latch attaches to the door, it is part of the door housing. All one piece, so the whole door itself has to be replaced.

So has anyone else had this problem with this brand of furnace and has 
the factory made good on the warranty ? 

Thanks


----------



## xrayman (Oct 1, 2012)

I had to have my door replaced on my CB due to a crack, they sent me a new door with a return ticket for the old one, new door came with all the parts so i took the sylinoid off the old one for a spare.


----------



## LadyToysDream (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks  

How old was your unit when you had the door replaced ? 
Did they need a picture of it first ?


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Oct 2, 2012)

Only thing I've had to replace was the door solenoid, do a search, there is an aftermarket solenoid available. Also, I believe the temp. cpntroller/display module is made/available from Dwyer (??)


----------

