# First use of 60" BIL mill



## BobL (Dec 7, 2008)

I took the 60" bar version of the BIL mill out for a run today on the 42" diameter Lemon Scented gum.

The first slabs I cut with the 42" bar and the original short (54") mill rails.






On the third slab using the 42" bar I ran across a problem using the I have not seen before and that is on big logs the bottom part of the mill hits the log preventing milling. Never mind, it just means switching to the 60" bar earlier.

Here is what it looks like on the log rails. Being able to start such a big (73 lbs fully fueled and oiled) mill on the rails makes it a lot easier and safer than starting it off the rails and lifting it up while running





Close up - here you can see the magnetic bar leveling gizmo on the RHS which BTW worked really well - I can now fully recommend this method. I was using regular full comp chain ( I buy rolls of regular full comp chain and file the top plate angle back to 10º over several successive sharpenings) which vibrates the mill a lot more than usual, especially when starting when the bar bounces up-n-down like a yoyo while it established the kerf. Despite this the magnetic bar leveling held on and didn't even look like coming off.





A tank and a half of mix later, slab is cut and here it is idling and cooling off on the log rails.









The 076 didn't seem to have any problem making this cut in this very hard wood. Perhaps not unexpectedly, using such a long chain, chain tension and stretch seems a lot more critical that when using the shorter bar, with the chain coming of the roller nose towards the end of the first cut. No damage to the chain, just a few scratches on the ally nose clamp. In the future I will be stopping a lot more and retensioning the chain during the first use of a new chain. 

The vibrations from the comp chain meant I lost a couple of bolts in the sawdust but I now carry lots of spares so it didn't stop me milling. One thing I did notice was that while the bar started cutting straight, over the length of the slab the bar sag seems to have kicked back in and that the outboard end of the slab was 20% thicker than the start. Apart from wasting wood it's not a problem if the mill is being used to break up a big log bit it is definitely a problem for slabs. Hopefully this will be less of a problem when I file the top plates to a full 10º. 

More picks of the slabs in the next post.


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## stipes (Dec 7, 2008)

*Nice setup!!!*

Thats some pretty wood too Bob...Wow,,do I have alot to learn...


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## BobL (Dec 7, 2008)

Pair of 42" slabs.





Close up.





After taking off 5 slabs the loader/forklift was finally able to lift one end of the log up (this wood is 72 lbs per cubic ft) so I could generate a slope.





Mill wouldn't go down by itself - wood too hard and too wide a cut - but effort needed to get mill to bite was minimal.

I have a lot more pics but that's enough for now.


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## AndyR (Dec 7, 2008)

BobL said:


> Pair of 42" slabs.
> 
> 
> I have a lot more pics but that's enough for now.



Enough pics for you! 

That really is some gorgeous lumber. Thanks for sharing.


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## BobL (Dec 7, 2008)

stipes said:


> Thats some pretty wood too Bob...Wow,,do I have alot to learn...



Cheers Stipes, 

Re having a lot to learn; you know the old saying, "the more you know, the more you realize you don't know", sometimes I feel like I'm still starting as well!


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## dustytools (Dec 7, 2008)

Nice pics Bob, thanks for sharing!


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## olyman (Dec 7, 2008)

bob--heres a question--on the outer end of the bar--right around the aux oiler area--could a person build a tensioning piece--out of a bolt or such--to maintain enough tension to keep the bar straight??--i know--its a 60 in bar---but just a thought--would push down on the outer end--to take the bow out of the bar--


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## BobL (Dec 7, 2008)

olyman said:


> bob--heres a question--on the outer end of the bar--right around the aux oiler area--could a person build a tensioning piece--out of a bolt or such--to maintain enough tension to keep the bar straight??--i know--its a 60 in bar---but just a thought--would push down on the outer end--to take the bow out of the bar--



Yep this is a good idea but I do not think my mill [which only has a single 1" diam x 1/8" wall thickness outboard leg] could take the tension needed to get the bar straight enough. I worked out I will need a couple of hundred pounds of tension to halve the (0.09") gap. One possibility is to rebuild the outboard clamp to use two verticals and then add a tensioning device, but before doing that I will try a couple of other things first.


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## glennschumann (Dec 8, 2008)

Very nice presentation Bob. And those slabs certainly are something to cause envy! Thanks for sharing!!!

Just a thought... since you will probably not be milling 60" often, could you make a bar hanger, like your magnetic one, but bolted, that is about 50" from the powerhead to hang the bar from to keep it level? So long as it leaves enough width for the log to pass through, it could help the bar sag. Maybe you have support holes drilled at 40, 45, 50, and 55 inches to accommodate various width logs. With two supports at the far end of the bar, the bar might act like a multiple span beam, with much less sag. It sounds like you are thinking that way with your comment about reworking the tip end support.

Maybe sloping the clamping pads on the tip end support will add a bit of camber (or rather, undo what gravity does).

Just my random, unsophisticated, and slightly jealous thoughts that may be worth nothing more than 2 cents...

Again, nice work and thanks for sharing!


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## BobL (Dec 8, 2008)

glennschumann said:


> Very nice presentation Bob. And those slabs certainly are something to cause envy! Thanks for sharing!!!


Thanks and cheers.



> Just a thought... since you will probably not be milling 60" often, could you make a bar hanger, like your magnetic one, but bolted, that is about 50" from the powerhead to hang the bar from to keep it level? So long as it leaves enough width for the log to pass through, it could help the bar sag. Maybe you have support holes drilled at 40, 45, 50, and 55 inches to accommodate various width logs. With two supports at the far end of the bar, the bar might act like a multiple span beam, with much less sag. It sounds like you are thinking that way with your comment about reworking the tip end support.


I have briefly though of this and seeing it in writing has cemented that thought. It helps that the max sag is actually about 20" from the outboard clamp where 5.5 lbs of force is needed to straighten the bar. So, a bar support 10" from the nose clamp should only need 11 lbs of upward tension to hold the bar level. As the magnet can hold 35+lb of weight I could even move the anti-sag device to within 5" of the nose clamp and apply 22 lb of lift at that point. Definitely worth a try since this method places the least stress on the mill.



> Maybe sloping the clamping pads on the tip end support will add a bit of camber (or rather, undo what gravity does).


This is also what others have done and I was planning to go there first but it's not so easy on the outboard clamp because of the single bolt nose grip - come to think of it that is maybe part of the problem? I could however implement this fairly easily on the inboard clamp - also worth a try.

Thanks for the tips and cheers


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## Rockfarmer (Dec 8, 2008)

Wow,..  Thats some beautiful stuff,... Very impressive


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## irishcountry (Dec 8, 2008)

As always and again great work and wood!! Professional!! Thanks for the pics


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## BobL (Dec 13, 2008)

BobL said:


> . . . . One thing I did notice was that while the bar started cutting straight, over the length of the slab the bar sag seems to have kicked back in and that the outboard end of the slab was 20% thicker than the start. Apart from wasting wood it's not a problem if the mill is being used to break up a big log bit it is definitely a problem for slabs. Hopefully this will be less of a problem when I file the top plates to a full 10º.



Problem was solved by filing the top plates to a full 10º - all good!

Had a bit of excitement today when a nearby (200 yards!) angry and very drunk homeowner came to complain about the milling noise. The complainant didn't have a leg to stand on because the yard is on industrial land and we were operating within acceptable times. If he had been half reasonable we would have tried to accommodate his request but he was abusive and threatening and yard owner Jeff and the lads (mostly rugby players) "assisted him from the property". Then he stood outside the fence yelling abuse and threatening to burn the yard down. When he finally left a couple of the lads quietly followed him back to his place to find out where he lived and knocked on his door and introduced themselves just to let him know they knew where he lived. The yard owner also reported the threat to the police who were very happy to pay the complainant a visit. Meanwhile I kept milling. After the police had paid their visit they called the yard owner back. The yard owner said I had just finished milling for the day and apparently the policeman said, "so soon? too bad, couldn't we keep it up for a little longer?"


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## Burnsy (Dec 13, 2008)

BobL said:


> Had a bit of excitement today when a nearby (200 yards!) angry and very drunk homeowner came to complain about the milling noise. The complainant didn't have a leg to stand on because the yard is on industrial land and we were operating within acceptable times. If he had been half reasonable we would have tried to accommodate his request but he was abusive and threatening and yard owner Jeff and the lads (mostly rugby players) "assisted him from the property". Then he stood outside the fence yelling abuse and threatening to burn the yard down. When he finally left a couple of the lads quietly followed him back to his place to find out where he lived and knocked on his door and introduced themselves just to let him know they knew where he lived. The yard owner also reported the threat to the police who were very happy to pay the complainant a visit. Meanwhile I kept milling. After the police had paid their visit they called the yard owner back. The yard owner said I had just finished milling for the day and apparently the policeman said, "so soon? too bad, couldn't we keep it up for a little longer?"



He was probably just celebrating his government bonus by spending it as the Prime Minister said he should. I see the price of a carton of beer has hit $170 up around the Kimberley.

For our American friends who don't know, the Aust government handed out $1000 for every child this week to eligible families (this is most families) and (I think) $1400 to penioners and told them to go and spend it to help ward off a recession.


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## woodshop (Dec 13, 2008)

Very interesting as usual Bob, you are continuing to fine tune this to a real science. I'm enjoying this. In all seriousness, have you thought of putting all this together in a pamphlet or small book? 



BobL said:


> Re having a lot to learn; you know the old saying, "the more you know, the more you realize you don't know", sometimes I feel like I'm still starting as well!


Pride does indeed go before a fall, and for sure, the more things I get into in my woodshop/milling that often shows its ugly head. Like many of us, I was pretty cocky in my 20's, had just gotten out of the military, and thought I had the world by the tail. But it's so true, the older I get and the more I learn, the more I learn just how much I don't know. It's both sobering and humbling, but consoling. 

The guy complaining about you milling even though you were zoned industrial... at least there you seem to have cops with common sense. As an aside, this reminds me of something similar years ago. Back then I maintained electronic stream gage monitoring equipment which depended on accurate river water levels from which we ascertained how much water was flowing in the river. At one point beavers had built a dam right below one of my gages, messing up the data. Although it is illegal in that state (NJ) to disturb a beaver dam, this data was used in a flood warning network. I put my waders on and started to disassemble their handy-work. One of the locals who wanted to see beaver dams in his river, even after I explained the situation, called the ranger to stop me from doing this. After I explained the situation again, but to the ranger, the ranger reprimanded the guy for calling him, put on his boots and helped me finish tearing apart that beaver dam!!


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## BobL (Dec 13, 2008)

woodshop said:


> Very interesting as usual Bob, you are continuing to fine tune this to a real science. I'm enjoying this. In all seriousness, have you thought of putting all this together in a pamphlet or small book?



I have thought about writing is all down and although I have messed about with chain saws since I was about 6 years old I have only been milling for about 2 years and only in a methodical and systematic manner for about 18 months. Putting my scientific hat on I don't think this is really enough experience to warrant writing about about, especially when there are other really good books out there. Give me another few years to think about it? What would be useful would be a way of condensing everything someone has already written on this site - now that would make interesting reading!

BTW I enjoyed the story about the Beaver Dam.

Cheers


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## woodshop (Dec 14, 2008)

BobL said:


> ...I have only been milling for about 2 years and only in a methodical and systematic manner for about 18 months. Putting my scientific hat on I don't think this is really enough experience to warrant writing about about, especially when there are other really good books out there...


Spoken with the experience/humility needed... good point, I'll bug you few years from now!


BobL said:


> ...What would be useful would be a way of condensing everything someone has already written on this site - now that would make interesting reading!...


Interesting indeed... I wonder what the legal ramifications would be along those lines. Not to derail your thread, but can you publish things others put out into a public forum like this? There should be a seperate thread started to discuss this... I guess there probably already is somewhere in AS.


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## DRB (Dec 15, 2008)

BobL said:


> Pair of 42" slabs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## BobL (Dec 16, 2008)

DRB said:


> I am not trying to be critical of your work because always look forward to reading your posts. But if you were to cut your slabs parallel to the main split in the log you may have a better chance at getting a split free slab. I have been cutting posts a beams and have noticed that if I cut around the main split and try to keep them free of heart then they are less likely to split, although I am not cutting wood quit as big you. I think it would be nice to see one of those beauty slabs dry with out splits. Sure would make a nice live edged table.


Hey - no problem with the criticism - I'm still learning heaps myself. Yep I agree with your suggestion. It's often a trade off between getting the widest slabs and wondering how far in the main cracks go. In this case I was going for the biggest slabs. Something else than turned up 3/4 of the way though that log was a 3ft long x 3" wide bark inclusion - pity because the wood was sooo pretty 



> I have attached a picture of a 12x12 that had a split in it that seemed to run the same direction on both ends. As I started to cut down from the top I cut a 5/4 board then a 16/4 beam then boxed out the heart with a 6/4 board then cut a 16/4 beam & was left with a 5/4 on the mill deck. This way I ended up with 2 nice 4x12 beams that I am quite sure will not split. If I had cut the beams across the main crack they would have split for sure.


Yep - I get it - it makes sense. Apart from one guy who wants the biggest slab - he doesn't mind the cracks, the rest of the cracked slabs will probably end up as 2" x 6" beams.



> Hope this helps Sure would like to see a nice live edge slab table or bar top when those are dried enough to useopcorn: opcorn:


mee too!


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## BIG JAKE (Dec 16, 2008)

DRB said:


> BobL said:
> 
> 
> > Pair of 42" slabs.
> ...


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## BobL (Dec 16, 2008)

BIG JAKE said:


> Nice pics/wood/mill Bob-keep them coming! I noticed that split too but I'm a newb compared to some of you guys and it's a good way for me to learn. Bob assuming you want to use the big slabs for table/bar tops, etc, what would you fill cracks with for strength that is sandable and affords strength?



Cheers Jake. Although the cracks run a long way none run right through the slabs and they are still relatively strong. For example, I dropped one off the fork from a height of about 4 ft and nothing happened. Because these logs are partially dry before milling they should move considerably less than if they were milled when first cut down so hopefully they won't crack too much more during the remainder of their drying. I'm still learning on all this stuff so I will hopefully report back in a year or two about how well they are holding together. The guy who wants to buy the biggest slab says he will fill the cracks with a mix of epoxy and sawdust.


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## BlueRider (Dec 16, 2008)

I rarely use large slabs in my work but I do occasionally end up using a board with a crack. I guarantee all the joinery in my work for life, but if a client wants me to fill a crack with epoxy I will not guarantee the work. I prefer to use butterflies across the crack. On those boards Bob posted pics of I would put a butterfly about 6"-8" from each end and about a 1/3 of the way down from one end provided the slab dries similar to the way it looks now. 

Between now and when that crack would get filled with epoxy it will get filled with dirt and dust and a fair amount of sawdust during the planing/sanding process. It is very difficult to get a good bond with epoxy with all that surface contamination even after blowing it out with an air hose. the biggest problems though is that once that slab is finished and placed in a home it will still continue to expand and contract with the changes in seasonal moisture. It will only have the same moisture content 2x each year. The rest of the time it will either be gaining or loosing moisture (Expanding or decreasing in size) the epoxy on the other hand will stay the same and eventually it will fail on one side of the crack. Epoxy resins are extremely susceptible to UV degradation causing yellowing and weakening unless painted over with an opaque paint. While UV should not be a big problem in the average home the epoxy will still yellow over time.

I have two benches currently in galleries both with cracks. The crack is always seen as a positive focal point and I have only had one request to ever fill a crack. The attached pic is of one of the benches. The wood is macrocarpa, or Monterey Cypress for those on this side of the world, the butterfly is claro walnut. The bench has a hand carved texture on the seat.


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## Jkebxjunke (Dec 16, 2008)

BobL said:


> Pair of 42" slabs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that is some nice looking lumber there... looks like all it needs is a clear finish on it...


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Dec 21, 2008)

Nice Slabs!


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## Dai Sensei (Dec 22, 2008)

Or if you are like me and no good with bow-tie joints, you can use some brass (coloured) bolts in resin and make a feature out of it like I did on this Camphor Laurel table.


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## woodshop (Dec 22, 2008)

Dai Sensei said:


>


Beautiful table... I like that brass bolt idea, I might borrow that one.


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## BobL (Dec 23, 2008)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Nice Slabs!



Cheers Aggie, have you been able to get back to any milling lately?

Hey DaiSensei, how do you do up those bolts?


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Dec 23, 2008)

BobL said:


> Cheers Aggie, have you been able to get back to any milling lately?
> 
> Hey DaiSensei, how do you do up those bolts?



Unfortunately no. I still have to build a new barn after the one I was storing my slabs in was partially destroyed in the last hurricane. That should happen this coming month then some more milling might be possible.

I am working on a slab desk though.


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## BobL (Dec 23, 2008)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Unfortunately no. I still have to build a new barn after the one I was storing my slabs in was partially destroyed in the last hurricane. That should happen this coming month then some more milling might be possible.
> 
> I am working on a slab desk though.



Cheers AWB, good luck with the barn, and the desk. BobL


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## Dai Sensei (Dec 24, 2008)

BobL said:


> Hey DaiSensei, how do you do up those bolts?



I just tightened them enough to fit snuggly so the nut is against the washer. The joint is not prestressed, it only provides tensile strength, the resin fills any gaps and ensures you have a compression surface.

They make great conversation pieces


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## woodshop (Dec 24, 2008)

Dai Sensei said:


> I just tightened them enough to fit snuggly so the nut is against the washer. The joint is not prestressed, it only provides tensile strength, the resin fills any gaps and ensures you have a compression surface.
> 
> They make great conversation pieces



I think they would also... I'm going to look into doing that. It doesn't seem all that difficult to do. Do you coat or shellac that brass bolt before you pour in the resin or does the resin keep it from oxidizing over time? I'm going to try and use the CNC with a 1/8th bit to make a perfect "D" for the ends to set into as long as the piece will fit on my table.


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