# steering trees while felling



## Johny Utah (Jun 7, 2012)

I use a conventional notch but I would like somebody to explain to me how to direct a tree in a certain direction using this or another type of notch. Thnx:msp_smile:


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## mga (Jun 8, 2012)

doesn't cutting more on one side or the other of the "hinge" direct the tree to where you want it to fall?


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## Oldtimer (Jun 8, 2012)

mga said:


> doesn't cutting more on one side or the other of the "hinge" direct the tree to where you want it to fall?



That's the basic premise, yes.

The ability to direct the tree with the cut is a learned thing..hard to teach over the web.
Some species wok better than others too; A red maple can be directed more than a white pine for example.

My best advice is this: study the tree from several angles, and several varied distances. Be sure of where the tree wants to go naturally. If the direction you want it to go is no more than, say, 45* away from the natural fall line, place the notch and then..

And this is the most important part....

back-cut the tree Ssssssssssssslllllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Be looking UP as you do. Watch the tree's top. You can see it move an inch, but that little bit of movement at the top won't be seen at the base. Adjust the back-cut as you need, going on the movement at the top.

Now, by cutting sloooooooooooooooooooooowly you give gravity the time it needs to effect the fall. Cut too fast, and gravity will work against you. When the tree is well on it's way, finish the cut and get moving out of the way.

Of course, a wedge never hurts in these dicey cuts.
Make sense?


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## madhatte (Jun 8, 2012)

This is one of those wide-open questions that's difficult and possibly even dangerous to answer. OP, could you please ask your question in a more specific fashion so that we understand better what it is that you want to learn?


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## Gologit (Jun 8, 2012)

Oldtimer said:


> And this is the most important part....
> 
> back-cut the tree Ssssssssssssslllllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
> 
> ...




No, not really. As a matter of fact, cutting "slooooooooooooowly" when you're backing one up is probably the worst piece of advice I've ever heard. The more time you spend in the back cut the greater the chance that the tree will barber chair on you, either from wind or natural lean. If you're quite a ways into the cut and sawing slowly the tree can slab out or go sideways on you. You don't want to race through every tree like a maniac speed demon but cutting too slow in the back cut is a recipe for disaster.

And how does gravity "work against you" if you cut too fast? I really need an explanation on that one.

The rest of your post wasn't too bad, though.


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## Oldtimer (Jun 8, 2012)

First, ya need to know enough about chopping to know when the potential is there for a barberchair. That's someting only time and trial will provide.

Second, cutting slow allows the tree the time it needs to start in the right direction. If you cut it too fast, then the natural lean will take it before it goes past the point of no return in the direction you want it to go.

I was given this advice by a man who's cut more wood in Maine and NH than any three other men you care to name. And damned if he didn't show me he could do what I thought was impossible with a tree. Old cutter had to drag the saw behind him, he was too frail to carry it. But he dumped enough to keep the skidder busy.

This is turning into another classic steep slope vs east coast thing, and I want to avoid that.


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## floyd (Jun 8, 2012)

Much safer if one takes the time before cutting to insure the tree will fall where one wants it. 

Easy to get stuck on driving it onto the ground.

You know what? Sometimes trees bounce when they hit. Better to be somewhere on your escape route before the tree hits. This may sound flippant, it is not meant to be.


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## rwoods (Jun 8, 2012)

OT, 

I for one tire easily on regional upmanship, excepting of course sparring in good fun. But I would wager that an experienced WC logger and an experienced EC logger (or for that matter, steep vs flat, hardwood vs softwood) would come to terms and respect each others methods and discover much more in common than in difference if they were to meet face to face, chainsaws in hand on their respective turfs. With that statement, I don't think the reaction you are getting is driven by a WC/EC rivalry. 

Not that you don't know, but it bears stating that without a shared real world context, words often leave the wrong impression. That is one of the major problems/dangers of seeking and giving falling advice via written posts. Now what was that old proverb about pictures and words? The same can be said about hands on demonstration and pictures. I don't know for sure how slow you meant but I took it to mean slow enough to read the fall and make necessary adjustments. Watching many falling videos where the faller seems to be doing a lot of saw/stop/look has prompted me as a firewood hack to be much more cautious taking time to judge what the tree is doing rather than simply putting it on the ground as quick as possible. I don't know if the saw/stop/look approach is cutting "slowly" but I believe it is done for many of the same reasons you suggested for cutting slowly. Unfortunately, we can't assume that everyone reading this thread will have enough experience to judge the appropriate speed a cut should take. There are probably many novices that follow instructional posts and not knowing any better will misunderstand well intended advice and get hurt. 

Ron


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## Oldtimer (Jun 8, 2012)

rwoods said:


> OT,
> 
> I for one tire easily on regional upmanship, excepting of course sparring in good fun. But I would wager that an experienced WC logger and an experienced EC logger (or for that matter, steep vs flat, hardwood vs softwood) would come to terms and respect each others methods and discover much more in common than in difference if they were to meet face to face, chainsaws in hand on their respective turfs. With that statement, I don't think the reaction you are getting is driven by a WC/EC rivalry.
> 
> ...



You are right, and you got the idea I wanted to convey.


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## OlympicYJ (Jun 8, 2012)

Oldtimer said:


> I was given this advice by a man who's cut more wood in Maine and NH than any three other men you care to name. And damned if he didn't show me he could do what I thought was impossible with a tree. Old cutter had to drag the saw behind him, he was too frail to carry it. But he dumped enough to keep the skidder busy.
> 
> This is turning into another classic steep slope vs east coast thing, and I want to avoid that.



Oltimer I'm not criticizing your advice and I'm not advocating it either. I'm remaining completely neutral on that part. Nor am I saying West Coast is better than East Coast. 

It seems to me by making the statement that you were given the advice "by a man who's cut more wood in Maine and NH than any three other men you care to name" you are contradicting your stated desire to avoid the West Coast-East Coast weiner shakin match. You're trying to put Gologit in the shade. Hes a Pro and You are a supposed to be a Pro... Statements like this start the East Vs West thing.

There are competent fallers on the E. Coast and there are competent ones on the W. Coast. Just say a competant faller told you this and leave it at that.


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## mga (Jun 8, 2012)

Oldtimer said:


> That's the basic premise, yes.
> 
> The ability to direct the tree with the cut is a learned thing..hard to teach over the web.
> Some species wok better than others too; A red maple can be directed more than a white pine for example.
> ...



i was going to add that as well, but deleted it from my post because the OP didn't offer much information. a tall pine, for example is much easier to control, than a tree that has many branches hanging out.

i agree 100% that studying the tree is a must before dropping it. i've gone up and removed heavy limbs just to "balance" it out before dropping it to ensure it will at least fall in the general direction i want it to.

if the OP'ster is thinking of dropping a tree near a house or other structure, i would recommend dropping as many limbs as possible first. i've seen a few disasters because people thought they could just cut it and let it fall.

but, yea, more info is needed and i hope people understand that every tree is different.


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## Gologit (Jun 8, 2012)

Oldtimer said:


> First, ya need to know enough about chopping to know when the potential is there for a barberchair. That's someting only time and trial will provide.
> 
> Second, cutting slow allows the tree the time it needs to start in the right direction. If you cut it too fast, then the natural lean will take it before it goes past the point of no return in the direction you want it to go.
> 
> ...



Yup, let's avoid the same old argument we've been having for a couple of years now. I don't know about you but I'm tired of it.

People tend to use their own experience as a yard stick for what to do or not to do. If I dawdled through the back cut in a big fir or cedar the results would probably be ugly...in fact I can just about guarantee it. My reply to your post was based on my kind of timber and my kind of experience with it. It was an accurate response but maybe it wasn't entirely fair.

Maybe on the stuff you cut you can get away with a technique like you describe. I hope so. The thing we both need to remember is that newbies read our posts and, not knowing any better, take what we say as gospel. That's flattering...but it's also a real bad idea. You and I both know that every tree is different, the wind is different, the ground is different, and every faller has his own bag of tricks to deal with working in an environment that can change by the minute. A newbie usually wants some kind of iron clad guarantee that "if I do _this_ the tree will do exactly what I want it to do." _We_ know better than that. We can give some basic tips and a few of the techniques but when it comes right down to it I don't think we can teach anybody how to be a good faller by using a computer. I don't think I'd want to try.

I've packed out two falling partners. Neither one lived long enough to tell us what happened.
I've taught guys to fall and the only ones that got killed were in car wrecks or bar room scrapes. I'd like to keep it that way. I'm not dragging my saw along behind me yet, like your friend, but some days it seems mighty inviting.


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## slowp (Jun 8, 2012)

To steer a tree in a proper direction, park a brand new pickup or car in the direction you want the tree to go. Make sure it is where the tree can hit it. There is a tractor beam that works on trees when this is done. Sometimes a building or fence will also do. Such things seem to have magnetic properties.


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## madhatte (Jun 8, 2012)

Gologit said:


> The thing we both need to remember is that newbies read our posts and, not knowing any better, take what we say as gospel. That's flattering...but it's also a real bad idea.



That's exactly what I was getting at. I don't want to offer well-intentioned but dangerous advice if I can avoid it. If I can concisely answer a specific question, I will, but I'm not gonna offer up a two-paragraph primer on how to beat gravity in three easy steps. No such thing exists.


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## Gologit (Jun 8, 2012)

slowp said:


> To steer a tree in a proper direction, park a brand new pickup or car in the direction you want the tree to go. Make sure it is where the tree can hit it. There is a tractor beam that works on trees when this is done. Sometimes a building or fence will also do. Such things seem to have magnetic properties.



Yup. When you go to the woods, park where the fallers park. If they move their rig....move yours too.  A faller _never_ drops one on his own pickup. The boss's pickup, yes. The new crummy, sure. The water truck, always. A forester's pickup, prime target. But _his own?_ Never.


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## paccity (Jun 8, 2012)

i think there's to much falling advice given on the internets . hands on instruction should be the only way in my book. you can explain something to some one a hundred times and they won't get it. show them a few times then the lite goes on. then again maybe not. thats when you steer them to do something else. and the wc / ec thing ' bring it on. it's fun.


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## Rounder (Jun 8, 2012)

Given that the OP is on my ignore list, I'm not sure of the nature of this whole deal, but given the nature of the OP's previous posts and the responses garnered from this one.......just looks like another pot stir from the puke.


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## Johny Utah (Jun 8, 2012)

madhatte said:


> This is one of those wide-open questions that's difficult and possibly even dangerous to answer. OP, could you please ask your question in a more specific fashion so that we understand better what it is that you want to learn?



Say I want the tree to fall more left then right, how do I use my back cut to do this. If I leave a thicker hinge on one side which way does that allow the tree to fall first. Does it fall in the direction of the thicker hinge area or does it fall towards the thinner area of the hinge. (pretending this is a tree with no lean just for illustration purposes) Most trees I cut are not thick enough to wedge so I have to influence it to fall hopefully the right way with proper cutting technique. Hope this is a better description for you guys to help me out. Thanks everybody much appreciated.:msp_thumbup:


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## paccity (Jun 8, 2012)

i should go out and nail a set bike handlebars to a tree to show him how to steer a tree.


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## lmbrman (Jun 8, 2012)

pull the tree with/to the thicker side of the hinge

we call it a swing


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## Johny Utah (Jun 8, 2012)

rwoods said:


> OT,
> 
> I for one tire easily on regional upmanship, excepting of course sparring in good fun. But I would wager that an experienced WC logger and an experienced EC logger (or for that matter, steep vs flat, hardwood vs softwood) would come to terms and respect each others methods and discover much more in common than in difference if they were to meet face to face, chainsaws in hand on their respective turfs. With that statement, I don't think the reaction you are getting is driven by a WC/EC rivalry.
> 
> ...



I rely and respect you guys and your advice because I am not very knowledgeable with this stuff, most of my learning is from here or just get out there and try it and hope for the best.:msp_thumbup:


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## Johny Utah (Jun 8, 2012)

Rounder said:


> Given that the OP is on my ignore list, I'm not sure of the nature of this whole deal, but given the nature of the OP's previous posts and the responses garnered from this one.......just looks like another pot stir from the puke.



Actually buddy contrary to what you may think, I ask people with more experience to help me out because I don't know the proper way to do things that a lot of these guys do everyday as their occupation. As for being a smart ass, well all I can say is I'm just giving it right back to the source. When people want to talk seriously about relevant topics I am a very grounded person. I don't hold grudges and don't believe in first impressions. Get to know a person overtime and then judge is the way I see interacting with people. But that's fine if you think I'm a puke, I don't value your comments as beneficial to any conversation I may have with you.


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## Johny Utah (Jun 8, 2012)

paccity said:


> i should go out and nail a set bike handlebars to a tree to show him how to steer a tree.



If only it were that easy.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## slowp (Jun 9, 2012)

Bailey's - Professional Timber Falling by Douglas Dent


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## Cedarkerf (Jun 9, 2012)

Heres a stearing cut also known as a sisweel, can realy make a tree move having been shown in person I dont think it could be taught on the internet


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## paccity (Jun 9, 2012)

a variant on the sisweel.




you can't teach all the diff cuts on the net.


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## Johny Utah (Jun 9, 2012)

Now I am starting to see how these cuts work, never seen pics like those before. Wow you guys sure have big trees around. Definitely on the job experience with these techniques would be essential for trees that big.:msp_thumbup:


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## paccity (Jun 9, 2012)

just makin a traffic cone fall were i wanted.


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## dancan (Jun 10, 2012)

Cedarkerf said:


> Heres a stearing cut also known as a sisweel, can realy make a tree move having been shown in person I dont think it could be taught on the internet



Thanks for the pics but a stumpshot showing the lay of the tree would have been nice .
A short vid of you dropping a tree with a sisweel like that would sure go a long way in understanding the setup and the results would even be better .


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## 2dogs (Jun 11, 2012)

I am a fan of the sloping back cut.:msp_tongue:


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## beastmaster (Jun 11, 2012)

After seeing the ultra soft dutchmen on you tube, Ive been trying to do it. I am getting to the point that some times it works some times it don't. I like to think I am a decent faller, but seeing what a real faller does on a day in day out basics, is both impressive and humbling. Do any of you use compression cuts to turn trees?


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## LumberjkChamp (Jun 11, 2012)

2dogs said:


> I am a fan of the sloping back cut.:msp_tongue:



Oh man! Don't start that #### again.


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## oscar4883 (Jun 11, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> I like to think I am a decent faller, but seeing what a real faller does on a day in day out basics, is both impressive and humbling. Do any of you use compression cuts to turn trees?



I hear ya. I am a tree guy and not a faller. I also like to think that I am a good faller. I don't fall enough whole trees to get really good practice with these specific cuts. If I have to steer a tree I am using rigging. Or if in doubt about a fall, climbing. IMO these cuts are best left to pro fallers. If a homeowner wants to try some of this stuff it is fine by me if there are not things to damage. Even then I would't want to lose a saw because I was playing with some fancy cut. I think 99% of us can get by with a regular face cut. Overhand, humboldt, whatever. Just concentrate on making your cuts line up perfectly and forget about these other cuts. BTW beastmaster this was not directed at you, more towards the OP bud.


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## beastmaster (Jun 11, 2012)

oscar4883 said:


> I hear ya. I am a tree guy and not a faller. I also like to think that I am a good faller. I don't fall enough whole trees to get really good practice with these specific cuts. If I have to steer a tree I am using rigging. Or if in doubt about a fall, climbing. IMO these cuts are best left to pro fallers. If a homeowner wants to try some of this stuff it is fine by me if there are not things to damage. Even then I would't want to lose a saw because I was playing with some fancy cut. I think 99% of us can get by with a regular face cut. Overhand, humboldt, whatever. Just concentrate on making your cuts line up perfectly and forget about these other cuts. BTW beastmaster this was not directed at you, more towards the OP bud.



I agree a 100% . I get by with pretty basic cuts. I am impressed with some of those logging falling cuts, they take knowledge and skill.
I would never use a exotic cut to turn a tree. Can't take that chance. I put a rope in almost every thing I fall around property. A good face cut and carefull with the holding wood your good to go.
But hey, I like that jumping sideways cut I saw on you tube also. Where it jumps off the stump and flys off to the side. Cool


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## Gologit (Jun 11, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> I agree a 100% . I get by with pretty basic cuts. I am impressed with some of those logging falling cuts, they take knowledge and skill.
> I would never use a exotic cut to turn a tree. Can't take that chance. I put a rope in almost every thing I fall around property. A good face cut and carefull with the holding wood your good to go.
> But hey, I like that jumping sideways cut I saw on you tube also. Where it jumps off the stump and flys off to the side. Cool



It's cool when it works. Sometimes it _doesn't_ work. Funny how nobody ever posts videos of a professional faller when things go sideways on him. 

The one I'd like to see is the "wedge beating video"...you know, where things went a little wrong and the faller gets to spend the next 15 minutes or half an hour wailing the heck out of his wedges...in between catching his breath and cussing.  Or maybe the "calling for your partner to cut you out of a hangup" video. The "forgetting where you put your tramp bag and nosebag until you drop a tree right on top of them" video would also be a welcome change.

I can understand why you guys rig stuff whenever you can. What little falling I've done around houses and powerlines and such made me wish I was back in the woods. If I have one that crosses the lead all I usually get is a grumpy skidder operator. And they're usually grumpy anyway.


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## hammerlogging (Jun 11, 2012)

Yeah, if I have one bust off the hinge while its falling, mess up my pattern, other than the lingering memory, which does nag me, it takes me about 30 seconds to say, "####, well, #### it."

Lets see, today, 1/4 tank left to the day, bucking off a 34.5 footer, butt hanging in the air, bored through the stem about 2/3 of the way down to power down and circle up and back down to buck it off, it sat on me just before I cleared the cut through the bottom. Yep, about 20 minutes later, I got my saw, bar and chain out, finished the cut, adn headed to the truck. 20 minutes later than necessary


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## Johny Utah (Jun 11, 2012)

oscar4883 said:


> I hear ya. I am a tree guy and not a faller. I also like to think that I am a good faller. I don't fall enough whole trees to get really good practice with these specific cuts. If I have to steer a tree I am using rigging. Or if in doubt about a fall, climbing. IMO these cuts are best left to pro fallers. If a homeowner wants to try some of this stuff it is fine by me if there are not things to damage. Even then I would't want to lose a saw because I was playing with some fancy cut. I think 99% of us can get by with a regular face cut. Overhand, humboldt, whatever. Just concentrate on making your cuts line up perfectly and forget about these other cuts. BTW beastmaster this was not directed at you, more towards the OP bud.



99% of the time I use a conventional notch, and everything I cut is in the bush or a shelter belt so if something does go wrong the worst is I hangem in the canopy. I never attempt something I think I can't safely do on my own. I've walked away from a lot of trees that I don't have the skills for. If any of you guys want some free help just pay for my plane ticket and I'll work for free just to learn from pros. I live in the sticks so there isn't anybody out here that could mentor me about how to do things proper. Lot's of firewood hacks like myself out here though. Everything I've learned about cutting wood I've learned here from you guys and I thank everybody for their help and patience with my newb questions.:msp_biggrin:


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## madhatte (Jun 11, 2012)

Gologit said:


> The one I'd like to see is the "wedge beating video"...you know, where things went a little wrong and the faller gets to spend the next 15 minutes or half an hour wailing the heck out of his wedges...in between catching his breath and cussing.



I didn't know you were watching!


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## Gologit (Jun 12, 2012)

madhatte said:


> I didn't know you were watching!



I wasn't watching....I was doing. And not doing too well either.

One of the TV stations came out to get some footage of us doing some selective work on a re-gen area. You know, the typical feel good fluff stuff they do. I was falling a good sized white fir that just flat defied everything I tried to make it do. I was wedged up pretty good, doubled up, and I beat on that damn tree, and beat on it and beat on it and beat on it some more. I think it fell over because it was beginning to feel sorry for me.
When it finally went I looked at where the TV crew had been, way up the hill and safe...and they were gone. Packed up and gone. I guess all the @#$$#@@!!!%%$#%&**&&!!!! that I was calling that tree must not have been exactly the kind of footage they had in mind.


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## madhatte (Jun 12, 2012)

Gologit said:


> must not have been exactly the kind of footage they had in mind.



"Ax Men" ain't for free!


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## Joe46 (Jun 12, 2012)

Gologit said:


> I wasn't watching....I was doing. And not doing too well either.
> 
> One of the TV stations came out to get some footage of us doing some selective work on a re-gen area. You know, the typical feel good fluff stuff they do. I was falling a good sized white fir that just flat defied everything I tried to make it do. I was wedged up pretty good, doubled up, and I beat on that damn tree, and beat on it and beat on it and beat on it some more. I think it fell over because it was beginning to feel sorry for me.
> When it finally went I looked at where the TV crew had been, way up the hill and safe...and they were gone. Packed up and gone. I guess all the @#$$#@@!!!%%$#%&**&&!!!! that I was calling that tree must not have been exactly the kind of footage they had in mind.


Got a good chuckle outa that one. Every once in a while you can just cuss em over:bang:


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## Wolfcsm (Jun 12, 2012)

slowp said:


> Bailey's - Professional Timber Falling by Douglas Dent



Great book. But a $14 book that costs over $11 to ship is an issue. Direct from the author is less than $20 to Texas.

Hal


Sorry, can't type.


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## 2dogs (Jun 12, 2012)

Wolfcsm said:


> Great book. But a $14 book that costs over $11 to ship is an issue. Direct from the author is less than $29 to Texas.
> 
> Hal



Direct from Hell is only $29.00? Great deal there. But still, isn't $25.00 less than $29.00? Just buy some more stuff from Bailey's and dilute the shipping.


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## slowp (Jun 12, 2012)

$11.00 vs smashed saw, smashed body, smashed house etc.

You be the decider.


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## slowp (Jun 12, 2012)

Joe46 said:


> Got a good chuckle outa that one. Every once in a while you can just cuss em over:bang:



Don't forget the rock throwing too!


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## Gologit (Jun 12, 2012)

slowp said:


> Don't forget the rock throwing too!



The rock throwing is just for Gummint employees. The civilians have to cuss...they're not carded for rock throwing.


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## slowp (Jun 12, 2012)

Gologit said:


> The rock throwing is just for Gummint employees. The civilians have to cuss...they're not carded for rock throwing.



Good point. Gummint employees have to careful about who they cuss around. Cuss around the wrong people and off to "special" training they go and they may also get a special letter in "their file" although I'm not sure who ever looks at a "file". :msp_ohmy:

Rocks don't offend people, although I'm sure there is an exception.


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## redprospector (Jun 12, 2012)

Gologit said:


> It's cool when it works. Sometimes it _doesn't_ work. Funny how nobody ever posts videos of a professional faller when things go sideways on him.
> 
> The one I'd like to see is the "wedge beating video"...you know, where things went a little wrong and the faller gets to spend the next 15 minutes or half an hour wailing the heck out of his wedges...in between catching his breath and cussing.  Or maybe the "calling for your partner to cut you out of a hangup" video. The "forgetting where you put your tramp bag and nosebag until you drop a tree right on top of them" video would also be a welcome change.



Hahaha. Video??? I wouldn't even let them take still pictures of the aftermath. 
It was a brand new Husky 288, 3 day's old if memory serves correctly. It was one of those times when it doesn't. 36" Doug Fir started in a way I didn't want it to and pinched my bar. I backed off, holding the starter cord at arms length, hoping to pull it free when the second came. That didn't happen. I abandond my place when the tree spun off the stump (with a death grip on my bar). It sat down right on top of the power head, and for good measure made a 180* turn before falling down the hill exactly where it wanted to go in the first place. On the bright side, the saw shop was able to salvage 2 AV mounts, and the little rubber "mud flap" at the back of the clutch cover. 

Let's see, it was a 5' Sugar Pine that I used all 4 of my wedges on, ran down to the truck and got 2 more, the guy in the next strip came and loaned me a couple, then the saw boss came over and said; "Son, just cut the damn thing loose". I told him "Nope, I faced the SOB to go there, and by grab that's where it's gonna go". Half hour, and much verbal abuse later it did.
There is nothing that will attract unwanted attention like constant, non-stop wedge pounding.

I'm not going to get into the flat samiches I've had to eat. Or the busted gas jugs I had to hike back to the truck to replace.

Well, they're not video's but maybe your mind's eye can picture it happening. Best I can do for now.

Andy


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## Gologit (Jun 12, 2012)

redprospector said:


> There is nothing that will attract unwanted attention like constant, non-stop wedge pounding.
> 
> 
> 
> Andy



Yup, unwanted attention and a few unnecessary comments. Like, after the third time you stop to catch your breath, sombody _always_ yells "You hung up?" The correct answer is "Hell no, I'm over here cracking walnuts."


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## madhatte (Jun 12, 2012)

redprospector said:


> There is nothing that will attract unwanted attention like constant, non-stop wedge pounding.



Ain't that the truth. 'Specially on a fire, when the dozer is on the way... "Just wait for the dozer!" No way, it's hanging on four wedges, that's stupid. Smoke all rolling out of the back-cut, am I gonna be able to salvage the wedges? Finally goes over with a wind change, just to spite me...


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## hammerlogging (Jun 12, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Yup, unwanted attention and a few unnecessary comments. Like, after the third time you stop to catch your breath, sombody _always_ yells "You hung up?" The correct answer is "Hell no, I'm over here cracking walnuts."



I thought it was "you building a house over there?"


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## Gologit (Jun 12, 2012)

hammerlogging said:


> I thought it was "you building a house over there?"



That's one of them too. Of course, if a guy is _really_ in trouble you just go over and help and don't say much. Until later, anyway. Sometimes later is a couple of days.


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## Johny Utah (Jun 12, 2012)

Wolfcsm said:


> Great book. But a $14 book that costs over $11 to ship is an issue. Direct from the author is less than $20 to Texas.
> 
> Hal
> 
> ...



I hear ya, for me to get it up here in Canada it is about $30 just in shipping.:bang:


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## redprospector (Jun 13, 2012)

Gologit said:


> That's one of them too. Of course, if a guy is _really_ in trouble you just go over and help and don't say much. Until later, anyway. Sometimes later is a couple of days.



Couple of days? Heck, I'll save em for years.
One of the guy's I used to work with is a cop now. He was going on about his "fallin days" a while back. At an oppertune moment I chimed in with; "Yeah I remember that time you was beating wedges for 20 minutes before I came over and helped you get her down". I think I'd been saving that one since 1991. 

Andy


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## 056 kid (Jun 26, 2012)

Open up the face and try not to give a tree any room to sit back. In my young opinion, a lot can be accomplished with a straight face and opening up the pull side some. block faces, dutchmans, backcut elevation, and number of other things are all good but don't worry about them, that straight face will likely work.
Also, the string never lies..


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## 2dogs (Jun 26, 2012)

056 kid said:


> Open up the face and try not to give a tree any room to sit back. In my young opinion, a lot can be accomplished with a straight face and opening up the pull side some. block faces, dutchmans, backcut elevation, and number of other things are all good but don't worry about them, that straight face will likely work.
> Also, the string never lies..



I agree here. Simple is almost always better. 
For me... a gunning cut, a Humboldt, a backcut snugged up with a wedge is almost I will ever need. Almost. Then there are those dang Cedars that are nearly wrapped around a White Fir and the dead fir needs to be pulled because doubled up wedges won't free the limb lock. And if I get lazy and don't pull the fir then I break the hinge and have a cut off fir hanging vertically. Now walk back to the truck and get the throw bag and a bull rope. I don't cuss or swear much in real life but I sure do to myself at those times.


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## Humptulips (Jun 26, 2012)

Everybody talking about the embarrasment of beating on wedges for an hour.
How about being ready to pound a wedge in and realizing you leaned the axe against the far side of the tree you have been sawing on and your axe now has a 12" long handle.
Yep, I did that.


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## FSburt (Jul 4, 2012)

Half hour thats not bad I have watch our C faller candidates beat for over a hour on a tree which they put a shallow 1/4 undercut and just beat themselves into the ground. Its so hard to teach these kids to use a deeper undercut that 1/3 is just so beat into them they think the world with end if they go any deeper. I learned early on in my career by talking and watchin cutters who where throwin down 5 and 6 footers without breakin a sweat and usually with just wedge put in case a wind came up or such. 





redprospector said:


> Hahaha. Video??? I wouldn't even let them take still pictures of the aftermath.
> It was a brand new Husky 288, 3 day's old if memory serves correctly. It was one of those times when it doesn't. 36" Doug Fir started in a way I didn't want it to and pinched my bar. I backed off, holding the starter cord at arms length, hoping to pull it free when the second came. That didn't happen. I abandond my place when the tree spun off the stump (with a death grip on my bar). It sat down right on top of the power head, and for good measure made a 180* turn before falling down the hill exactly where it wanted to go in the first place. On the bright side, the saw shop was able to salvage 2 AV mounts, and the little rubber "mud flap" at the back of the clutch cover.
> 
> Let's see, it was a 5' Sugar Pine that I used all 4 of my wedges on, ran down to the truck and got 2 more, the guy in the next strip came and loaned me a couple, then the saw boss came over and said; "Son, just cut the damn thing loose". I told him "Nope, I faced the SOB to go there, and by grab that's where it's gonna go". Half hour, and much verbal abuse later it did.There is nothing that will attract unwanted attention like constant, non-stop wedge pounding.
> ...


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 4, 2012)

Thinking about the question at hand, I've come up with 3 ways that I use. Tapered hinge, dutchman, cutting the hinge off of one side. All of these techniques are more effective early during the fall when the tree is more vertical (when it can still sit down on your saw) before the tree is fully directionally commited and beyond the point of no return.

Tapered hinge: I watch the top and hold one side while the tree walks, then I square it up to the face and finish the back cut.

Dutchman: Angle a second face cut so the tree essentially turns or tilts when the face closes and the tree realigns itself with the second face.

Cutting the hinge: I'll walk the tree to the face then zip the hinge on one side to let head weight or side lean take over the fall.

I would think these things would constitute stearing a tree and are used quite a bit during select cutting.


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## singinwoodwackr (Jul 4, 2012)

slowp said:


> Bailey's - Professional Timber Falling by Douglas Dent



ditto! get the book, read it twice and then start practicing!!


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