# Market research for chainsaw safety



## joe23232 (Jan 11, 2022)

Hi,

I am carrying out some research into chainsaw safety as part of my University degree. As part of the research I need to find out some data regarding chainsaw injuries. If you have a minute could you please have a go at the quick question Poll attached, it would be a great help! Feel free to discuss about the accident in the replies or what your thoughts are on how a chainsaw could be made safer.
NOTE: No names or any personal data will be used in the data received

Thanks for your time!


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## farmer steve (Jan 11, 2022)

Really no way to make a chainsaw safer Joe. Unless you don't start it. That said 25 years ago my dad was almost killed while dropping a dead hickory tree. He is experienced in this type of work. 1 small limb less than wrist size hit another tree on the way down. It snapped off and became a missile and hit him on the head. He was not wearing any safety gear. He recovered after part of his brain was removed and skull repaired and continued to cut trees. He is 91 years old now. 1 question for you. What type of degree are you pursuing? Good luck with it.


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## joe23232 (Jan 11, 2022)

farmer steve said:


> Really no way to make a chainsaw safer Joe. Unless you don't start it. That said 25 years ago my dad was almost killed while dropping a dead hickory tree. He is experienced in this type of work. 1 small limb less than wrist size hit another tree on the way down. It snapped off and became a missile and hit him on the head. He was not wearing any safety gear. He recovered after part of his brain was removed and skull repaired and continued to cut trees. He is 91 years old now. 1 question for you. What type of degree are you pursuing? Good luck with it.


Thanks for your help and response Steve, much appreciated. I am studying Electrical Engineering. We are possibly looking for ways to stop kickback for amateur users who are not trained as well as professionals and as part of this we need injury data.


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## farmguywithasaw (Jan 11, 2022)

I know a few people injured. No cuts I’m thankful. You may find that the majority of injury’s involved being hit with something. My dad had a close call once and got his chaps but only barely my grandfather the same. Knock on wood I have yet to even graze them. I personally got hit in the head with a small, brush size poplar. It hit my hard hat and was enough to knock me over. If I didn’t have the hat I think it would have been worse


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 12, 2022)

joe23232 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am carrying out some research into chainsaw safety as part of my University degree. As part of the research I need to find out some data regarding chainsaw injuries. If you have a minute could you please have a go at the quick question Poll attached, it would be a great help! Feel free to discuss about the accident in the replies or what your thoughts are on how a chainsaw could be made safer.
> NOTE: No names or any personal data will be used in the data received
> ...


Seems like we get a post like this every few months... must be a standard exercise in some textbook.


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## computeruser (Jan 13, 2022)

Pretty much. 

The surveys are sometimes more comprehensive but none show any meaningful familiarity with saws or saw use, which leaves you to wonder how useful the findings will be in designing a better mousetrap.


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## DutchWoodPecker (Jan 14, 2022)

No, but I know a guy who last half of his thumb in a splitter. Does that count?


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## CacaoBoy (Jan 14, 2022)

I suspect everyone who has used a chainsaw more than a few times has had some injury, if only cuts, scratches, and bruises from contact with cut and broken branches.

While I have never had an injury that required medical attention, I retain a vivid recollection from my youth -- I did a ride along on an ambulance to pick up a young farmer who tore up a leg pretty badly. The sight of his injury impressed on me how dangerous are chainsaws, and not just the machines themselves but the risks posed by trees and branches with lots of weight and tension, and debris surrounding trees that may trip a person trying to move clear of a falling tree. I consider my saws to be more dangerous than my firearms and always wear my PPE. 

I know someone who tells of having a kickback that came within an inch of opening her skull. I do not know the details of the saw nor how it happened. 

As you are "studying Electrical Engineering. We are possibly looking for ways to stop kickback" I suspect you are considering a senor to detect the sudden movement of kickback and instantly brake the chain. If your objective is to eliminate kickbacks, I think that is impossible without impairing functionality of the saw, the best you could achieve would be to mitigate, not eliminate, injuries. The problem I see would be translating the electronic signal to a mechanical brake capable of stopping the chain quickly enough to make a difference, and to do that without adding unacceptable weight and cost, and to do that without normal vibrations being mistaken for kickback. Good luck. Have you measured how long it would take a saw tip to travel from the point of a detectable kickback to impact with a body part?


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## KarlP (Jan 14, 2022)

farmer steve said:


> Really no way to make a chainsaw safer Joe. Unless you don't start it.


I've only ever hurt myself with a chainsaw when slipping and slicing my finger while sharpening or burning my hand on a hot muffler, never while one was running.


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## Philbert (Jan 14, 2022)

Why is this ‘Market Research?

Thanks 

Philbert


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## Maintenance supervisor (Jan 15, 2022)

Im interested in a movie where the main VILLAIN gets killed by the ever threatening "Kick Back!" Of his saw while chopping up teenagers at a summer camp.
This subject has been beaten to death, an inexperienced user should be running their saw with an experienced user who has proper training, we cant idiot proof the world .
Homelite's solution was probably the best option with the little shield bolted to the end of the bar. That allowed inexperienced cutters to get some trigger time in a relative safe way.
Ive seen a chunk of 4x4 sticking out of a shop ceiling where a young man was using a miter saw to cut posts, the common denominator is not the saws we use but rather the knowledge of the user.


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## Bearcreek (Jan 15, 2022)

joe23232 said:


> Feel free to discuss about the accident in the replies or what your thoughts are on how a chainsaw could be made safer.


Chainsaws can't be made safer without making them less useful. 


joe23232 said:


> We are possibly looking for ways to stop kickback for amateur users who are not trained as well as professionals and as part of this we need injury data.


The way to do that is for the amateurs to get training so that they're not amateurs.


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## derwoodii (Jan 19, 2022)

The majority of saw cut injuries are wounds to the left leg and then left hand,
The left leg cause is the positioning of leg into harms way by operator & loss of saw control.

The left hand is by user handling moving timber while operating saw
Top handle saws are primary cause of this injury.

Training and awareness & PPE cut proof saw pants/chaps could help reduce or saws could be fitted with cut out on handle but this would harm sales and soon deactivated ( worked around) by users.


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## swingdjted (Jan 27, 2022)

One of my saws is a somewhat old Stihl 362 CMQ. It has a safety feature that many Stihl dealers around here claim they have never seen. On the top of the rear handle there is a lever bigger than normal, and it not only serves the usual purpose, but also is connected to the chain brake so that when you remove your trigger hand, the chain is locked. This stops the flywheel effect if you let go and keeps the chain braked any time you are holding the saw only by the front handle. This is very handy when limbing because you can brake and unbrake without any extra action like pushing the front standard chain brake, especially when you're repositioning to make new cuts. StihlUSA told me in YouTube comments that they discontinued the feature on all saws, but I actually like that feature and I'll use that saw any time I'm in awkward situations where I have to reposition myself often because of it. I think they called it "Quickstop". Anyone else ever use a saw with that feature?


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## Dave1960_Gorge (Feb 2, 2022)

No poll attached. Once nicked the side of my left thumb with a top handle Stihl 200T because I was holding the wood I was cutting, instead of stepping on it with heavy boots and chaps. Never will do that again. 

I grabbed my thumb to stop the bleeding and was afraid to look at it for several long seconds. Then I looked: all I did was rip off part of the nail and peel the skin off the side down to the knuckle; I was sure that the end of my thumb was gone. It was really painful and took a long time to heal. Still skinnier than my right thumb.


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## Howard Justice (Mar 1, 2022)

Just wondering if this one day evolves into the Tablesaw “SawStop Patent Issue” we see now with Bosch and SawStop fighting legal battles. See videos of hot dog making contact w blade and it’s immediate stopping. Maybe if all saws one day are electric (I hope not) this chain stop technology might be more feasible?


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## Modark (Mar 1, 2022)

I do have a corded electric chainsaw that stops the chain as soon as you let go off the tigger like a chain break has engaged. And on the topic of kickback. I know a, now retired, forester that cut up his face pretty bad due to kickback. He was not wearing a helmet with the wire face shield but lucky for him the chain had stopped by the time it hit him. A nice sharp chain meant he still needed stitches. The saw was a 254xp


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## Philbert (Mar 1, 2022)

Anyone seen the OP?

That’s usually the way these ‘part of a class ‘ threads go. 

Philbert


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## Sawdust Man (Mar 1, 2022)

I've never sawed on myself with any kind of saw, nor do I anyone who has, (and I know plenty of idiots).
If you could install a reasonable amount of common sense into people, that would do more good than all the brakes and guards in the world, but trouble seems to be that universities don't specialize in common sense, just degrees.
If you are successful in developing a "smart brake" for chainsaws, someone will have to get the government make it mandatory because most people that actually work with them won't buy them.

No offense intended, just my observations.

Good luck.


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## Maintenance supervisor (Mar 1, 2022)

That is exactly the University standard, " I can't do your job ,but I'm going to tell you how to do it"
Security is a prison not freedom.


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## BobL (Mar 2, 2022)

This is the only real CS injury I received.
I normally always wear chaps although I'm not really sure if chaps would have helped with the following .

Mum calls me up and wants a small (12ft high maybe 6" wide trunk) tree taken down. I go around there and she's not home. Put on chaps and using a 441 with 25" bar I take down tree. Break it up and leave the wood in one pile and the branches and leave in another. I'm not sure if mum wants a bit of stump left there or not - I go with "yes". Notice chain is really loose and really needs adjusting.

Just then mum turns up and says will I come in for a cup of Joe - Sure. Remove chaps and half an hour later I mention the stump height and mum says - ground level please. I grabbed the saw started it up and the chain comes off - fortunately it's caught by the chain catcher but successful swings around and goes straight between my legs and whacks me fair in the privates.

It was actually not that bad - no blood - chain was not spinning, and far less pain that being kicked in the privates. But later it did hurt and one of the family jewels cam up with a bright purple and yellow bruise. Sheer carelessness and could have been worse.

This is interesting


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## J. Davis (Mar 2, 2022)

I have cut myself through carelessness and inexperience. It was a minor thing on my left wrist (hold a branch while cutting it, and while being up in the tree in an awkward position). But it taught me a good lesson. And I had been running a saw for years before it happened.

I think the issue of kickback is extremely overplayed. Most homeowners don't run saws powerful enough to kick that hard. And in my ~30 years of running a saw, (I started when I was 10) I've never once had a kickback.


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## Philbert (Mar 2, 2022)

J. Davis said:


> I think the issue of kickback is extremely overplayed. Most homeowners don't run saws powerful enough to kick that hard.





Philbert


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## DutchWoodPecker (Mar 2, 2022)

J. Davis said:


> I think the issue of kickback is extremely overplayed. Most homeowners don't run saws powerful enough to kick that hard. And in my ~30 years of running a saw, (I started when I was 10) I've never once had a kickback.


But most home owners will also not wear helmets and face shield, that can take off some of the energy of a kickback.
Just safety goggles if even that which will be neatly cut in twain by a saw.


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## blades (Mar 2, 2022)

sooner or later it will get you, one way or another. first time put knuckle through hand guard- 116si,20" blade, there was a branch hiding somewhat under the off side under some derbis very wide gap-but not quite. Another time was a 30" log that moved due to stress relief blade got pinched at the same time, there was 6" of clearance at the start between it and the one behind it. This was pick-up-stix mess of big long logs. Had to cut the blade out with another saw no way to move anything. I did make a big wedge to prevent that occuring again before digging out the first blade. 7900,32" blade. It was early spring and niether the tractor nor my truck could get enough purchase to move anything.


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## BobL (Mar 2, 2022)

I've 'felt kickback" on several occasions and it fair scared the bejesus outta me. My CS use is 90% in mills where there is far less chance of kickback so I've even removed the chain brake/clutch cover from some of my saws to fit the mills and get more cut width.
BUT 
I have to be super careful that these saws are not used outside mills without putting the chain brake back on. 

When I got my 880 I redesigned my big mill so the chain brake handle could stay on the saw and was still able to use a modded the clutch cover.


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## Maintenance supervisor (Mar 2, 2022)

Cutting after hurricanes and tornadoes is a part of life for me, and you can't walk into a natural disaster zone and see every danger ( copperheads) ,but if you utilize throttle control and a strong grip your going to at least be prepared for kick back 
Lazi'fair grip and not feathering the throttle through a pinch situation is a good way to get into trouble, the fellow in the video also hit a chain link fence. All of his actions leading to injury were preventable, stupidity is not.


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## DutchWoodPecker (Mar 3, 2022)

Maintenance supervisor said:


> Cutting after hurricanes and tornadoes is a part of life for me, and you can't walk into a natural disaster zone and see every danger ( copperheads) ,but if you utilize throttle control and a strong grip your going to at least be prepared for kick back
> Lazi'fair grip and not feathering the throttle through a pinch situation is a good way to get into trouble, the fellow in the video also hit a chain link fence. All of his actions leading to injury were preventable, stupidity is not.


Is that legal in the US? Here that is considered poaching and law enforcement is out in force after storms to make sure enthusiasts do not poach firewood.
Also, very close after a storm folk with trees on their land that they want to get of cut them down, and then say the storm did it, so they do not have to pay the fine.
It is essential to get the hinch ugly and big, and the drop in the direction of the storm, to make it appear natural  .


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## Maintenance supervisor (Mar 3, 2022)

I work for the Park Service, we're clearing roads and such. I'm in one of the guys wearing a uniform .


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## ChillyB (Mar 7, 2022)

DutchWoodPecker said:


> Is that legal in the US? Here that is considered poaching and law enforcement is out in force after storms to make sure enthusiasts do not poach firewood.
> Also, very close after a storm folk with trees on their land that they want to get of cut them down, and then say the storm did it, so they do not have to pay the fine.
> It is essential to get the hinch ugly and big, and the drop in the direction of the storm, to make it appear natural  .


Sometimes its a simple post that makes me extremely grateful to be an American living in a fairly free state out in the country.


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## camel2019 (Mar 7, 2022)

joe23232 said:


> Thanks for your help and response Steve, much appreciated. I am studying Electrical Engineering. We are possibly looking for ways to stop kickback for amateur users who are not trained as well as professionals and as part of this we need injury data.


There’s already measures for kickback reduction atleast in home owner grade saws both chain brakes and low profile chains as well as those guards that go over the bar tip. dont think you can reduce it much more.


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## DutchWoodPecker (Mar 10, 2022)

ChillyB said:


> Sometimes its a simple post that makes me extremely grateful to be an American living in a fairly free state out in the country.


We both have our good things and our bad things, and there is remarkably little overlap.


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## SteveInOregon (Apr 10, 2022)

joe23232 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am carrying out some research into chainsaw safety as part of my University degree. As part of the research I need to find out some data regarding chainsaw injuries. If you have a minute could you please have a go at the quick question Poll attached, it would be a great help! Feel free to discuss about the accident in the replies or what your thoughts are on how a chainsaw could be made safer.
> NOTE: No names or any personal data will be used in the data received
> ...


CHAPS/ PPE: If you look at my first pair of chainsaw chaps you will see a bunch of rip -cuts- slices in the knee / lower thigh. Why because I would be limbing felled trees with about an 18" bar and right after I two hands on the saw, cut off a limb . Well I would sometimes need to reach out and grab the cut off limb to get it out of my way in order to continue to walking the log to keep limbing the danger was / is when I let one hand ( NOT the trigger / throttle hand ) off the saw the saw chain although not under gas, not being given feul, just decelerating but still spinning pretty fast would fall down towards my legs as I am simultaneously concentrating on moving the free / cut limb out of my face and thus the now heavy saw would fall down and bounce off my thigh .

This would happen when I am sweaty and tired and now the not so heavy saw is becoming heavy. 

After cutting my chaps a couple times on each knee / thigh I knew I was in borrowed time.

I got a longer bar 22" for my main limbing - bucking saw , and I also got another much smaller saw so when I am not walking the log and I am walking on the side of the log I would use the very small lightweight saw.
I also would take a break, drink some water, dry my sweaty forehead , regroup and start over when I'm tired.
To me the danger is letting go of a live saw even when it's NOT triggered / throttled under power.

The only other time I've come close to cutting myself is walking up and down hills and tripping / stumbling and instantly having to let go of the saw and make dam sure I kind of help myself fall away from the saw lol. ( It's kinda weird, you have to be there )

Strategic Falling us what I learned when scrambling down to that awesome river fishing spot, tripping and having to chuck my expensive fishing rod away from my fall line while simultaniously stumbling lol.


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## CIAmike11 (Apr 10, 2022)

In my opinion most of these research studies I’ve seen have one major issue. They are just generalized as “chainsaw incidents or accidents” They fail to differentiate between professional users and “home owners” or people that just run chainsaws for firewood ( not firewood processing business),cleaning up their property, helping neighbors etc. accidents happen with chainsaws, it’s part of the game we play. But for sake of research studies and somewhat accurate statistics… I believe the injuries category needs to be separated into professional job-site injuries and injuries not on job sites I.e home and residential users.


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## Philbert (Apr 10, 2022)

Give it up guys. Another ‘student / class research troll’. OP has not been on here since first day. 

These threads come up periodically. 

Philbert


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## Old-Feller (Aug 25, 2022)

Yes he has been on several other forums too, He has ghosted all of them I will give him the same answer I gave him on the other forums:

"Don't Let Soy-boys With Man-buns Run Chainsaws"

I'm sure he is doing this research for the benefit of insurance companies.


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## Cheap40v (Aug 30, 2022)

My neighbor took a 36 inch bar to the face on some kind of husqvarna saw in a kickback incident.


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## user 185711 (Nov 13, 2022)

Nobody wants someone in another industry telling them how to do their tree work, but people in tree work love to tell everyone else how to do their work. I hope you all at least realize you are no different from these people.


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## TheJollyLogger (Nov 14, 2022)

Worker3000 said:


> Nobody wants someone in another industry telling them how to do their tree work, but people in tree work love to tell everyone else how to do their work. I hope you all at least realize you are no different from these people.


That doesn't even make sense.


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