# One Man Crew?



## sledge&wedge (May 31, 2016)

Hey all,

Just had some questions due to genuine curiosity in the logging industry and figured I would use it as a chance to make my first (and probably only) thread on the logging board. My neighbor is having an 85 acre patch selectively cut for lumber and veneer and I noticed they started cutting late last week. I have full permission to do what I want when I want over there, so I took a walk yesterday afternoon to look around and see how things are coming along. I eventually stumbled across the crew having dinner in the woods. One dude. Just one. He is probably 70% done with the patch already and he is working completely alone. Is that normal or is this guy a real manly man? I guess I expected at least 3-4 guys based on the 2 massive 40' x 16' x 12' piles of logs he already had stacked and ready to ship out in only 4 days of working. Like I said, just curious. I realize 85 acres isn't a huge job compared to big time operations, but I am still impressed that he's going it alone and appears to be making great time.

Thanks and happy cutting.


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## Gypo Logger (May 31, 2016)

Lumberjack dude working alone sounds like a real Paul Bunyan because 85 acres soulds like at least 400 trees or 175,000 ft. So this lone logger is making real good time being in there only 4 days.
Did you notice what saw he is using?


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## chucker (May 31, 2016)

? no mention of equipment, so he must be a "manly-man" to move all that material in 4 day's alone within 85 acres. ? what species of logging is he selectively cutting, diameter at knee high & breast for more info...


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## sledge&wedge (May 31, 2016)

Timber Tool said:


> Lumberjack dude working alone sounds like a real Paul Bunyan because 85 acres soulds like at least 400 trees or 175,000 ft. So this lone logger is making real good time being in there only 4 days.
> Did you notice what saw he is using?



It was a Stihl saw but honestly didn't look close enough to see which model. I would guess it was around a 70cc saw and a 36" bar roughly. He had a smaller saw he was using to top and limb the tree out with, also of the orange variety. He did mention he was working sunrise to sunset, so I'm sure that helps quite a bit. I can verify the length of his work day; last night at 8:30 I heard him still dropping trees, and at 6:15 this morning I heard the skidder moving around.



chucker said:


> ? no mention of equipment, so he must be a "manly-man" to move all that material in 4 day's alone within 85 acres. ? what species of logging is he selectively cutting, diameter at knee high & breast for more info...



Best I could tell he had two skidders there. One appeared to be his go-to machine, and was about the same size I see at every smaller operation around here. The other was quite a bit larger, but didn't look nearly as well used as the smaller one. He had another machine there, don't know the common name for it. Big sled with racks on one end, a boom arm with grapple, and a powered saw to cut logs to length. Probably 30' long total. It's all flat ground so that may be helping his time. He also has access from 3 sides of the wood lot. I should clarify by "70% done" I meant he is 70% done with bringing logs to the landing. He had a hell of a pile of tree length logs laying there yet to be cut to size, probably 30-40 logs. It doesn't appear to be species specific cutting. Some red oak, some white oak, beech, shagbark hickory, walnut, poplar and a few random ash trees in the pile. All of them looked to be in the 24-30" range from what I could tell, definintely a few monster trees here and there maybe pushing 4' diameter. I was just impressed overall. I don't see logging first hand very often so I am new to the full process.


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## Marshy (May 31, 2016)

No logger on the east coast would use a 70cc power head and a 30"+ bar. Most loggers I know use a 24" bar max on 70cc saws. Most jump to a 390XP or 394Xp and use a 24-30" bar. I don't know anyone stupid enough to cut 100% by themselves. They at least have 1 other guy in the field with them, maybe running the skidder or at the landing.


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## sledge&wedge (May 31, 2016)

Marshy said:


> No logger on the east coast would use a 70cc power head and a 30"+ bar. Most loggers I know use a 24" bar max on 70cc saws. Most jump to a 390XP or 394Xp and use a 24-30" bar. I don't know anyone stupid enough to cut 100% by themselves. They at least have 1 other guy in the field with them, maybe running the skidder or at the landing.



I could be off on my guesses a bit. I didn't get to see him drop any trees or do any cutting of any kind. Just glanced at his saws in the box mounted on the skidder. Could have been a bigger head or a shorter bar (or both), just eyeballing from ~50 yards away. Like I said I am 100% green on cutting timber other than seeing the total carnage left behind by a bad crew/cleanup job on some of the ground I hunt on all across Southern Indiana. I am 100% in agreement with you on being surprised that he was alone. That is exactly what made me write up a post and ask somebody who knows what they are talking about. I expected to see at least one guy cutting and one guy skidding, and maybe another guy at the landing cutting logs to length.


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## chucker (May 31, 2016)

one man doing the work of three! a real "go getter" getting it done...


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## bitzer (May 31, 2016)

I must be pretty stupid then. I work alone. Help can be more trouble then it's worth. Sounds like he's getting a little better than a semi load a day. Maybe load and a half. In that size wood I would do at least that to maybe two loads a day. I typically work 8-10 hour days. Sounds like he's skidding tree length and using a slasher to buck on the landing. I buck all mine in the woods. 90cc saw and 32" bar all the time. The thing about working alone is you go at your own pace. No one to push you but yourself. Contrary to what others are going to post about me after this post, I do this every day. I know many owner/ operators that cut alone for some of the reasons I've stated. The guys I know who have been killed or hurt around here were not working alone. They were on crews that expected production every day.


I just realized you had 4 piles of that size in 4 days. Is this tightly stacked bucked wood? The 40x12x16? Theres no way he's getting that all alone.


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## sledge&wedge (May 31, 2016)

bitzer said:


> I must be pretty stupid then. I work alone. Help can be more trouble then it's worth. Sounds like he's getting a little better than a semi load a day. Maybe load and a half. In that size wood I would do at least that to maybe two loads a day. I typically work 8-10 hour days. Sounds like he's skidding tree length and using a slasher to buck on the landing. I buck all mine in the woods. 90cc saw and 32" bar all the time. The thing about working alone is you go at your own pace. No one to push you but yourself. Contrary to what others are going to post about me after this post, I do this every day. I know many owner/ operators that cut alone for some of the reasons I've stated. The guys I know who have been killed or hurt around here were not working alone. They were on crews that expected production every day.
> 
> 
> I just realized you had 4 piles of that size in 4 days. Is this tightly stacked bucked wood? The 40x12x16? Theres no way he's getting that all alone.



Actually you caught a typo, sorry. 2 piles that size + 30-40 tree length logs yet to be bucked. I edited the original post to reflect that. I don't think he's stupid for doing it alone at all; just surprised one man is handling it. Like I mentioned above I don't see this stuff up close often, and never right outside my back door. I would say the stacks are as tight as practical given he is probably in a hurry and isn't trying to win a beauty contest. Again, guessing the numbers as far as dimensions, but I know about how big an F150 long bed single cab is and his was parked right in front of the pile to give me a reference. He is skidding unbucked for sure. I googled "timber slasher" and the pictures tell me you are correct. However, his has an actual chainsaw style bar, not a circular blade. I saw pics showing both. Thanks for all the info guys I am just a lowly firewood buzzard when it comes to chainsaws and timber.

Edit: Thinking back, not every log in the stacks were 16' long. Looked like the lower portion was longer logs, 12-16' maybe, and the upper portion were all in the 8-12' range. Guessing he needed the longer logs for a sturdy base to stack on, or he has orders for some longer lumber possibly.


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## KiwiBro (May 31, 2016)

Marshy said:


> I don't know anyone stupid enough to cut 100% by themselves


stooped and proud of it.


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## bitzer (May 31, 2016)

That sounds a little more realistic. Probably around 50-60 thousand feet is what he has out. In the right wood with the right set up a guy could do 12000+ board feet per day. I've done 10-12 mbf in soft maple swamps where I bucked everything in the woods and decked it with a forwarder. Big timber. My best week (5 days) was pushing 60 mbf. The funny thing about log piles is they look a lot bigger than they really are. You feel like you really stacked the wood up until the truck starts pulling logs out. A typical 85 acre sale here ( select cut) would yield 90-150 mbf depending on how hard it was being cut, type of timber, etc, etc. I've heard that trees are taller down there on average compared to here though.


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## northmanlogging (May 31, 2016)

Marshy said:


> No logger on the east coast would use a 70cc power head and a 30"+ bar. Most loggers I know use a 24" bar max on 70cc saws. Most jump to a 390XP or 394Xp and use a 24-30" bar. I don't know anyone stupid enough to cut 100% by themselves. They at least have 1 other guy in the field with them, maybe running the skidder or at the landing.



Guess I'm dumb too.

Sounds like hes got 4-6 loads, which is shittin and gettin out here solo, but I have a lot more limbs to deal with then the east coast guys, tends to slow a guys production down. Dude is also using a slasher to process, less work for him, and higher production. So it sounds about right.

I've done a couple cotton timber jobs where I could have easily gotten 2 loads a day, if there wasn't targets to avoid etc... So yeah having 85 acres of open ground, nothing to avoid hitting, and a machine to do the hard work, easy money.

I'm going to avoid the whole long bar short bar ****...

Sometimes I'm the only human within 6 miles of where I'm cutting, and sometimes I don't even have cell service. A guy just has to slow down and plan out every move, every escape route, watch every top, and be ready to run when needed. Its not safe, and I know it, but it needs done and hiring someone is out of the question, largely because L+I has become simply too expensive. To sum up, I don't usually get a load a day purely because I'm cautious. I work alone, and I know my limits, I have nothing to prove to anyone but me and the wifey/war dept. 

If this job was safe I'm fairly sure half of us would find some other occupation, like deep sea fishing, shaft mining, lineman, bullet proof armor testing, test pilot, astronaut... actually astronaut does sound kinda bad ass...


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## chucker (Jun 1, 2016)

northy! I like your clear head on taking care of #1 ! plain, simple get it done on your terms... 8 cord a day makes for a fair easy living to wake tomorrow.


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## sledge&wedge (Jun 1, 2016)

Thanks for all the info guys. I heard him again this morning at 6:15AM already dragging a tree back to the landing. I'll be surprised if he isn't done dropping trees soon. When I took my walk to look around Monday evening I didn't see very many blue dots left.

The biggest surprise I've heard so far is that more than one of you guys consider Southern IN the East Coast . Thanks for all the info and happy cutting. I'll back over to my normal home and stop bothering you now.


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## Gologit (Jun 1, 2016)

Marshy said:


> I don't know anyone stupid enough to cut 100% by themselves.



Oh come on now Marshy, I'll bet you do.


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## bitzer (Jun 1, 2016)

East coast is anything east of the Rocky's. I'm in Wisconsin and would consider my type of Logging east coast. All hardwood timber pretty much. I run a west coast saw with west coast style though!


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## northmanlogging (Jun 1, 2016)

I grew up in Wyoming, so anything east of the mississippi or missouri, anything in between the dakota mtns and the mississippi, and south of the platte is just corn and doesn't count.


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## SliverPicker (Jun 3, 2016)

I work entirely alone too. 90% of the time I have no cell service. I often don't see or even hear anyone else for five or more days at a time. On one job two years ago I once went a month without seeing a single person.

blah blah blah


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## northmanlogging (Jun 3, 2016)

I might be able to get used to not seeing people for a month or 2, well self loader jockey every other day or so...

Spent most of today either on the road to/from parts stores or hiding from the sun behind a hemlock yacking on the phone with various other parts/boots/loggers/mills/and a few calls I don't honestly remember...


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## bitzer (Jun 3, 2016)

SliverPicker said:


> I work entirely alone too. 90% of the time I have no cell service. I often don't see or even hear anyone else for five or more days at a time. On one job two years ago I once went a month without seeing a single person.
> 
> blah blah blah


That sounds like me except I usually have cell service. Well, i will see the truckers on the landing occasionally and the forester might stop out once every 4-8 weeks.


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## bitzer (Jun 3, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> I might be able to get used to not seeing people for a month or 2, well self loader jockey every other day or so...
> 
> Spent most of today either on the road to/from parts stores or hiding from the sun behind a hemlock yacking on the phone with various other parts/boots/loggers/mills/and a few calls I don't honestly remember...


That sounds like me too. Trade the hemlock for an oak though.


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## Skeans (Jun 4, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> Guess I'm dumb too.
> 
> Sounds like hes got 4-6 loads, which is shittin and gettin out here solo, but I have a lot more limbs to deal with then the east coast guys, tends to slow a guys production down. Dude is also using a slasher to process, less work for him, and higher production. So it sounds about right.
> 
> ...


Nothing like big long sticks out here with no limbs in sight till 125 feet up that's a way to make loads up fast as long as everything is the same sort.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Skeans (Jun 4, 2016)

bitzer said:


> That sounds like me too. Trade the hemlock for an oak though.


I noticed since we went back to company work we don't see the forester for thinning hardly ever but we sure have to check when we hit the job, at noon, and leave the job.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## nk14zp (Jun 4, 2016)

Lots of one man crews here.


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## SliverPicker (Jun 4, 2016)

Trucks are few and far between. I don't see those guys much even. I have loads still in the woods from last season due to a lack of truckers.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 4, 2016)

didya ever get yer own truck?


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## old CB (Jun 5, 2016)

I'm a sawyer not a logger. (Ran skidder for a one-man show in 1973.) But most of my time in the woods since the '70s, I've worked alone. Now I have a guy working for me to keep me on the saw and make me more efficient. (I do my own payroll, and the admin is a total pain in the a$$.)

Since living here in Colorado I encounter folks whose intro to saw work is thru fire service training (S-212 course, etc.), based on the late Douglas Dent's methods. Much of the way I operate is shocking to them. Working alone with a saw is forbidden of course.

The growth we have on the front range in CO is some of the most uncomplicated trees you'll find, and it's comical to see 212-trained guys approaching a 15" Ponderosa as if it were the same animal the PNW guys deal with. Also funny to see them carrying monster saws w/ 28--32" bars in our small timber. My biggest saw, Dolmar 7900 w/ 24" bar, sees little use. I want the smallest, lightest saw I can use efficiently, since I lug it all day. My everyday users are a 372/20" and a 550xp/18" for limbing or in lodgepole pine and similar small stuff.

Even a small tree can cause you grief, so I'm not saying smaller is safer. In fact small stuff--vines, brushy growth, hidden fence wire--can be big trouble if you don't pay attention. Everyone tends to be super-aware on the big stuff, but then might let down their guard on the little.

Working alone is so much simpler. Don't have to concern yourself with what he's doing over there, and what do I need to line up for him next--did he just run that bar in the dirt? The key to working alone is this: if you phuk up you're screwed, so you learn early to spot and understand risk and minimize it. This kind of work favors those of us with a methodical approach.

Working in the woods can be risky--I don't claim otherwise. But most accidents are preventable. Fatigue, lack of experience, hurrying with a saw, distracted attention, etc.--usually it's something that a careful, experienced operator would avoid. And even with a crew nearby you can get crushed or bleed out before anyone can help.

Friday afternoon I finished the day with two hours of climbing and limbing a Pondo (remove limbs within 10' of house roof to satisfy insurance co.) Didn't have my guy along on Friday, so there I was alone. Completely frowned on. (I carry a whistle around my neck whenever climbing.) But moving carefully through the tree, tied in twice for cutting, paying attention to my climb-line, test your footing/balance before committing the saw, thinking thru each limb-cut and its rigging beforehand--it's all doable with the right mindset.

Just like some people use a table saw or skilsaw for decades and keep all their fingers, you can work in the woods on your own if you do it right.

Oh, and I always turn my pickup around when I arrive at work for a quick escape if necessary.


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## rwoods (Jun 5, 2016)

If I had known ya'll were so stupid over here, I would have never started trespassing!!!

Can only draw limited analogies between the pro logger and a firewood hack, but as a hack that prefers solo I can identify to some extent - I can concentrate so much better on what I am doing and going to try to do if certain contingencies develop while working alone than I can while trying to keep up with others and all that they might do. And like others, if I am going to accidentally injure or kill someone, I would rather it be me than somone else.

Not saying that I wouldn't love to have some competent help from time to time, but that isn't easy to come by these days - paid or volunteer. As is often said, "It is hard to play second fiddle well." It also seems extraordinarily hard to find one of these type of folks as most competent folk yearn for first chair.

Ron


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## Gypo Logger (Jun 8, 2016)

bitzer said:


> East coast is anything east of the Rocky's. I'm in Wisconsin and would consider my type of Logging east coast. All hardwood timber pretty much. I run a west coast saw with west coast style though!


Wannabe! Lol.
Working alone is fine, but it's a learning curve and a good one. You have to be a self starter, independent, resourceful, stupid and ready to tramp whenever.


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## Big_Wood (Jun 8, 2016)

Timber Tool said:


> Wannabe! Lol.
> Working alone is fine, but it's a learning curve and a good one. You have to be a self starter, independent, resourceful, stupid and ready to tramp whenever.



Bitzer don't know what west coast style is lol not saying he couldn't do west coast style but an east coast guy saying he runs his west coast saw west coast style doesn't exist until he works on the coast. unless he's talking about doing humbolt undercuts with is west coast saw. i don't mind ya at all Bitz  even if we had our run ins. ya wanna see a joke east coast cull, coltont on another site is the definition of it.


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## Gypo Logger (Jun 8, 2016)

westcoaster90 said:


> Bitzer don't know what west coast style is lol not saying he couldn't do west coast style but an east coast guy saying he runs his west coast saw west coast style doesn't exist until he works on the coast. unless he's talking about doing humbolt undercuts with is west coast saw. i don't mind ya at all Bitz  even if we had our run ins. ya wanna see a joke east coast cull, coltont on another site is the definition of it.


No need to extrapolate Shane, Bitzter swims both ways and seems to be just another run of the mill woodtick, but Bitzer always comes back with something funny, so maybe he's just another limp wristed bushler, just like you, Bob, Brushape, Rocky J Squirrel, Bullwinkle and myself. Lol


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## Big_Wood (Jun 8, 2016)

John, not even you know what the coast is but at least you don't really pretend too lol.


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## Gypo Logger (Jun 8, 2016)

Correct, i got my start on Van Isle., never cut big wood there, but I was the Wayne Gretzy of tree spacing on or about 1981. Like an Idiot, I haven't put a saw down since then.


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## Big_Wood (Jun 8, 2016)

Timber Tool said:


> Correct, i got my start on Van Isle., never cut big wood there, but I was the Wayne Gretzy of tree spacing on or about 1981. Like an Idiot, I haven't put a saw down since then.



i don't call that being an idiot. i call that blood born. i can't work with the public or in the public. i literally hate people lol so i like cutting timber. i'd do a cord of firewood a day for $100 before i worked at a gas station for $25 an hour.


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## chucker (Jun 8, 2016)

westcoaster90 said:


> i don't call that being an idiot. i call that blood born. i can't work with the public or in the public. i literally hate people lol so i like cutting timber. i'd do a cord of firewood a day for $100 before i worked at a gas station for $25 an hour.


! bad enough dealing with public, idiot's buying firewood that don't know an inch from a foot .......


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## rwoods (Jun 8, 2016)

chucker said:


> ! bad enough dealing with public, idiot's buying firewood that don't know an inch from a foot .......



Let's not be too hard on the average Joe.  It seems even folks on AS can't agree on firewood measurement. Nor how much a saw weighs. Ron


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## hseII (Jun 8, 2016)

rwoods said:


> Let's not be too hard on the average Joe.  It seems even folks on AS can't agree on firewood measurement. Nor how much a saw weighs. Ron


Ain't that the Truth.


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## Ted Jenkins (Jun 8, 2016)

I am so thankful to discover how stooped I am. A majority of my work has been alone. My hotel room is a single and only sleeps one. With the exception of my vicious guard dog who thinks that the bottom of my room is just for him. A local young fellow who worked for a competitor was killed recently. He was accustomed to working with a six person crew, but made a fatal error in judgement. I have trouble being safe with people around asking all kind of questions or not asking any questions. As I get older I take more time to plan every move that I am going to make plus never have to discuss what is it going to be for dinner. Just my penny's worth. My hotel room does have its problems, there is no room service. Thanks


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## bitzer (Jun 9, 2016)

Took you bastards long enough to take the bait....


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## Gypo Logger (Jun 9, 2016)

westcoaster90 said:


> i don't call that being an idiot. i call that blood born. i can't work with the public or in the public. i literally hate people lol so i like cutting timber. i'd do a cord of firewood a day for $100 before i worked at a gas station for $25 an hour.


Shane, my experience has been the opposite, I much prefer to buy my wood from the public sector, but the governent is ok to deal with if you run out of wood, which is not too likely.
The stuff is growing faster than we can cut it down.
Trees:99
Woodticks: 1


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 13, 2016)

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum. Not trying to hijack a thread here so I can make my own but this thread is really what I want to know. How do you setup one man logging work? Can you guys that have done work solo describe your setup?


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## Big_Wood (Jun 13, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> Hey guys, I'm new to the forum. Not trying to hijack a thread here so I can make my own but this thread is really what I want to know. How do you setup one man logging work? Can you guys that have done work solo describe your setup?



i do a few jobs a year alone but those are jobs for a hack on private land really. around here no one would be able to get away with doing an industry job alone. maybe 2 on conventional but never alone. with heli they map the blocks to maximize the cut and get a crew in there to get it down fast so the next phase can come in and then onto the next job for the fallers. no time to let one guy go at it and take forever. it's really quite organized. i'm not sure how it is in the states but they don't need certification so anyone can cut really. i hear it's about making your way up the latter or knowing somebody if you want to fall down there. if you have no experience i doubt anyone with 1/16 of a brain would contract to you but you could probably score the odd jobs on private land. if you wanna do it full time your best bet is likely just find somebody already doing it and try get on with them but again, i'm not 100% sure how they roll state side. in the yukon they all work alone, use smoke signals for emergency calls, and a big red 3 wheeler as their medical evacuation vehicle lol


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 13, 2016)

westcoaster90 said:


> i do a few jobs a year alone but those are jobs for a hack on private land really. around here no one would be able to get away with doing an industry job alone. maybe 2 on conventional but never alone. with heli they map the blocks to maximize the cut and get a crew in there to get it down fast so the next phase can come in and then onto the next job for the fallers. no time to let one guy go at it and take forever. it's really quite organized. i'm not sure how it is in the states but they don't need certification so anyone can cut really. i hear it's about making your way up the latter or knowing somebody if you want to fall down there. if you have no experience i doubt anyone with 1/16 of a brain would contract to you but you could probably score the odd jobs on private land. if you wanna do it full time your best bet is likely just find somebody already doing it and try get on with them but again, i'm not 100% sure how they roll state side. in the yukon they all work alone, use smoke signals for emergency calls, and a big red 3 wheeler as their medical evacuation vehicle lol



I meant for myself. I'm buying a big lot of land with lots of trees. I intend to use the big douglas fir and hemlock for my home. I can take as long as I need. Not interested in waiting around for 2 years to save money to pay someone else to log and mill my land. I could likely get it done myself in 2 years. That's why I'm asking


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## Big_Wood (Jun 13, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> I meant for myself. I'm buying a big lot of land with lots of trees. I intend to use the big douglas fir and hemlock for my home. I canctake as long as I need, just don't have much interest in sitting around for 2 years to save money to pay someone else to log and mill my land. I could likely get it done myself in 2 years. That's why I'm asking



How much land? That's gonna be a sweet setup for yourself but I couldn't tell ya which way to go about it. I thought you were talking more about logging on licensee TFL's. Heck I would just call a logging company and sell them logs. Usually if you have enough they'll come pick them up. We did 6 loads out of a lot my grandfather owned a few years ago and the local licensee was stoked to come pick them up.


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 13, 2016)

Not interested in selling the timber. The plot I'm looking at right now is 23 acres. All trees. I have a couple alaskan mills, and plan to buy a bandsaw mill from a local builder once I have land. The trees will provide the timbers for my shop and eventually my home


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## Bwildered (Jun 13, 2016)

If you're going to work alone falling, it's just common sense to plan for the worst & hope for the best, I mostly work alone falling, have a 2 way radio & make contact before & after each tree I drop, if I don't make contact for the after sched that's the trigger to come & check on me quickly, help is a few minutes away, the worst case is I've been wiped out & there's no chance or I've been knocked out by a falling limb & my airway is blocked & I've got 3 minutes for someone to roll me into the recovery position. I've had some close calls, some with injuries & some without & I wouldn't recommend anybody doing it totally alone, unless nobody will miss you if you're not around anymore.
Thansk


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## northmanlogging (Jun 13, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> Hey guys, I'm new to the forum. Not trying to hijack a thread here so I can make my own but this thread is really what I want to know. How do you setup one man logging work? Can you guys that have done work solo describe your setup?





Jesse snowden said:


> I meant for myself. I'm buying a big lot of land with lots of trees. I intend to use the big douglas fir and hemlock for my home. I can take as long as I need. Not interested in waiting around for 2 years to save money to pay someone else to log and mill my land. I could likely get it done myself in 2 years. That's why I'm asking



Well, honestly there isn't much to it. Get a saw big enough to fall with, 70cc or bigger, preferably 2. And some sort of machine to move the logs, a large 60+ hp tractor will do on flat ground, otherwise look into a dozer or skidder. For what it sounds like you wanna do a dozer is dual purpose, drag logs, and level ground.

As far as building a house, you can use whole logs and thats ok but here in Snohomish county, you can not mill your own lumber, every board has to have a grade stamp on it. The inspectors will not sign off on it and will not "allow" you to occupy. Yes its ****, but thats what ya get when the 2 biggest industrys here are timber and airplanes.

While I'm at it, do you have a basic understanding of timber cutting? Cause that is going to be the biggest issue, once they are on the ground its just physics, getting them on the ground takes a good eye for lean, and a good hand on the saw, along with a few tricks and what not on the way.

Also I'm out of Granite Falls, just a hop and a skip from Ever-rot, and I'm totally ok with checking out yer timber and giving a few pionters. 

And one last thing, the permit process out here is a pain in the ass... next job it took them nearly a year to get permited, and we're now on the mandatory 60 day wait peroid so the neighbors can call and ***** about it... It also takes considerable amount of money, at least for a clearing and grading permit, if you get a standard forestry permit from DNR its only $100 and a fairly easy process, but its only good for cutting and replanting timber, with minimal road work for access, anything more than that and its all county all the time... Also a DNR permit comes with a moratorium for building, and once you do start to build then you need a septic design and permit, and a building design and permit... etc etc etc. But don't worry King county is worse.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 13, 2016)

And another thing... 

Shouldn't take 2 years for someone else to log it, there are a number of outfits around here with only a 6 month wait, good guys too. But there are a couple that can start cutting tomorrow... they may or may not be good guys... (I don't like em cause they keep taking my work... but thats business)


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 13, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> Well, honestly there isn't much to it. Get a saw big enough to fall with, 70cc or bigger, preferably 2. And some sort of machine to move the logs, a large 60+ hp tractor will do on flat ground, otherwise look into a dozer or skidder. For what it sounds like you wanna do a dozer is dual purpose, drag logs, and level ground.
> 
> As far as building a house, you can use whole logs and thats ok but here in Snohomish county, you can not mill your own lumber, every board has to have a grade stamp on it. The inspectors will not sign off on it and will not "allow" you to occupy. Yes its ****, but thats what ya get when the 2 biggest industrys here are timber and airplanes.
> 
> ...


Now that is useful information! I say seattle because it's a land mark, but I'm in snohomish/lake stevens area. I was under the impression we COULD have a grader to come out to stamp the timber after its cut. Guess I'll have to check up on that in this county, or maybe move my search up to skagit county if the rules permit it. 

If it's a possibility, I'd like to do all the work myself. If it's not, I guess I'll have to sell the timber I clear, just to turn around and buy the same stuff from a mill. They really got me by the balls!


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## Big_Wood (Jun 13, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> Well, honestly there isn't much to it. Get a saw big enough to fall with, 70cc or bigger, preferably 2. And some sort of machine to move the logs, a large 60+ hp tractor will do on flat ground, otherwise look into a dozer or skidder. For what it sounds like you wanna do a dozer is dual purpose, drag logs, and level ground.
> 
> As far as building a house, you can use whole logs and thats ok but here in Snohomish county, you can not mill your own lumber, every board has to have a grade stamp on it. The inspectors will not sign off on it and will not "allow" you to occupy. Yes its ****, but thats what ya get when the 2 biggest industrys here are timber and airplanes.
> 
> ...




Man, that seems like a lot of hoops for a guy who just wants to clear his own land and use his own wood. I mean dang if he has to sell it he has to sell it but for him to need permits just to cut that seems crazy. Around here a guy could level his land and no one would care lol unless it has some old growth the hippies were protecting on it or a wild life tree patch but then why would a guy want that land anyways. we have the stamped timber thing too but if building off grid no stamp or building permit is needed.


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 13, 2016)

The area is amazingly beautiful, but apparently a pain to build. Existing structures get grandfathered in for a lot of new rules. But anything related to land development, like wet lands (which there area lot of) timber rights, where you build and what you build, take deep pockets to make it through. The timber grading rule is just one. I've heard you can have an inspector from one of the big mills come out and grade your self cut lumber, but that may be in a different county.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 13, 2016)

Sno Co. is a horrible place to live Don't mover here... 

The county council is a bunch of tree hugging dipshits, led by a knee jerk reactionary assface... and all they care about at the end of the day is money, and a new courthouse to replace one that is only 40 years old and perfectly adaquit... So they pass a bunch of stoopid laws and permit process crap that just slowes down any progress, and puts guys like you out of a dream... anyway getting dangerously political...

What guy can probably get away with here is to buy some decent dirt with some decent timber, but then turn around and log most of it to pay for said dirt, the market is kinda goofey right now... so grain of salt and all.

Otherwise check into building codes, I'm no lawyer or code enforcer, just passing what I've been told by builders and archetects. There are also some goofey ruler regarding pressure treated and kiln dried lumber for studs/beams

But you may be able to con a grader in to comming out and stamping yer boards, if you do, I want names and numbers.


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## Jesse snowden (Jun 13, 2016)

Well here are the names and numbers of an agency that operates in snohomish county! This is my email and their response.

Hello Jesse:

I am responding to your email inquiry regarding getting your sawn lumber graded.


Our website has some information on this which you can find by following this link… http://www.plib.org/services/on-demand-inspection/


Basically there are two things that you will want to do: 

1)Talk with one of our inspectors before you cut your wood. They will be able to provide some advice on how to cut your wood and what sizes to cut it to so that we can grade it and it meets the standards.

2)Set up a mutually agreeable time with our inspector to come to your site and grade the wood. We charge $75 per hour with a two hour minimum (travel time included) so the cost for the grading service will depend on how long it takes. There are several things you can do to minimize your costs with the main thing being to schedule your grading time when our inspector is near your area so that you can minimize the travel time. Most jobs can be done in two to three hours but that will also depend on how much wood you have, how the wood is stacked, the area we have to work in and how much help you can provide. 


Our inspector will grade and stamp your wood with the PLIB grade stamp. Our stamp is recognized by the building code authorities and will be accepted by your code official. One thing you will want to know, however, is whether you have to have a specific grade of lumber (for example, No. 2, No. 1, Select Structural). The type of building, its design and the species of wood might all impact the grade you need, so have this conversation with your building department (or your engineer/architect if you have one) first.


The inspector that works your area is Kelly Clifford. I have copied him on this email. He will be able to provide you with some suggestions on cutting practices and get a schedule worked out. Generally we like as much lead time as possible to schedule this as our schedule can be booked out for several weeks in advance. You will want to let him know what grade of lumber your project requires so that he can have the right stamps available. 


If you would provide a good phone number, I will have Kelly give you a call to discuss this in more detail.


Thanks for contacting us. Please don’t hesitate to let me know if you have any questions.

Sincerely,


Jeff Fantozzi


Pacific Lumber Inspection Bureau

Headquarters Canadian Division

909 S. 336th St. P.O. Box 19118

Suite 203 4th Ave. Postal Outlet

Federal Way, WA 98003 Vancouver, BC V6K 4R8

Tel: (253) 835-3344 Tel/Fax: (604) 732-1782

Fax: (253) 835-3371

www.plib.org



*From:* Jesse Snowden [mailto:[email protected]] 
*Sent:* Monday, June 13, 2016 9:53 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Having self cut timber graded


Hello!

Name is Jesse, I am a land owner in snohomish county. In the machias area, just east of snohomish lake stevens, snohomish address. There are several acres of what I believe to be 2nd growth timber on my property. Mostly douglas fir, with some hemlock and western red cedar as well, 2-3feet diameter at knee height. I have my own bandsaw mill available and want to begin milling large timbers to dry for a timber frame shop and later for my residence. What is the procedure for getting either large 8x8 or smaller dimensional lumber graded for construction in this area?

I've heard snohomish and king county are very strict, any guidence would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Jesse snowden


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