# 511A Grinder - Improvements / Tweaks?



## Philbert (Mar 25, 2012)

I read some of the threads on tweaking the Northern Tool grinders, and thought that we ought to have one for the venerable Oregon 511A (and related Italian grinders). This model does not have the same quality issues as the knock-offs, and I know that it has been replaced by the 511AX, but there still have to be a few million (?) of these things in use.

Please add things you have done, or issues that need to be resolved.

*Castings*
When I received mine new, the vise casting did not rotate as smoothly as it should. I polished the rough spots on it and the base with fine emory paper and a ScotchBrite wheel. I don't use any grease because the the grit and dust would stick to it.

*Angle Scales*
There are 2 head-tilt angle scales on the grinder. They did not agree. I removed the scale on the top and elongated the holes with a Dremel tool so that I could shift it over a bit, and remounted it with the screws and double-stick tape. The scales still do not agree over the entire range of movement, but they do at 60 degrees, where I use it the most.

I checked the vise rotation scale, after centering the vise per the instructions, with a factory ground, new out of the box chain, and it seemed to line up at +/- 30 degrees - again the settings I am most likely to use, so I assume that it would be consistent with other settings as well.

*Mounting*
My grinder is not permanently mounted - it is bolted to a board so that I can clamp it to a table when needed, then put away. I like to grind outdoors when I can to keep the grit and sparks out of my basement.

*Grit*
I clean the grit off after each grinding session with a brush or compressed air. But some grit 'sticks' the the front of the upper casting. I covered this area with aluminum tape, which can be removed and replaced if this build up gets to be a problem. For some reason, the grit does not stick as tenaciously to the aluminum tape.

*Head Travel*
Someone noted that the grinding head on their NT grinder travels a large distance to reach the cutters, so he 'de-tuned' his spring to keep it from rising up so much. I did not want to do that. So I threaded a piece of heavy boot lace through the existing holes (for the accessory foot pedal) to limit head travel, but the spring is so strong that it pulled the cord right through the spring-loaded cord lock I used.

After trying a few things, I used a larger cord lock, one that allows me to pass the cord though a second time, and this works. It is infinitely adjustable, allows me to fully raise the head for any reason, and did not require any permanent modifications to the grinder. It definitely saves time when grinding.




Philbert


----------



## Eccentric (Mar 25, 2012)

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


----------



## Nato (Mar 25, 2012)

*oregon grinder*

this is what i did to mine. i built my work table xtra tall (i'm 6'3") so when the grinder "sub frame" clamps in the vice, the grinder chain rails are about 8 inches below my eye sight line (when i'm standing). this makes it very comfortable, and quick to get setup to grind a chain. i welded 1/2 inch round stock to either side of the "sub frame" to hang my chains. left side for the chains that need ground,and right side for finished chains. i used to screw my grinder to my saw horse, but i grew tired of that. it was flimsy at best. this thing is rock solid now and portable. it makes grinding quick and easy.... in my book that =fun. my next improvement to the grinder is going to be a better placed ,brighter light so i can see what i'm doing,or maybe just glasses?


----------



## galde (Mar 25, 2012)

I have an old Tecomec with reversing motor. I wouldn't have one without reversing capability.
Some of my tweaks:
1) I taped tygon fuel line lengths to the top casting to hold the allen wrenches for the shield and grinding wheel so they are always handy.
2) The head tilt is always either at true vertical or at 30 deg from vertical so I clamped stops at these angles so I don't have to strain my neck to read the scale on the back side every time.
3) By calibrating the depth adjustment (my grinding wheel moves 0.005" for each groove on the knob) and attaching a pointer on the lower friction-adjusting knob, I can uniformly grind all of the depth gauges to within a couple thousandths of the desired depth. I locate zero by running the adjusting knob upward to permit the wheel (stopped, of course) to rest on the top edge of the reference tooth (after sharpening ) and then run the adjuster down until the wheel just picks up and clears the tooth while applying the same downward pressure applied when finishing the actual grind.
4) I attached a flexible gooseneck lamp with a 100-watt brightness CF bulb for illumination. The built in lamp in the newer models is worthless since it is on only while the motor is on.
5) After wearing nearly through the vise rail with the cam clamp, I added a replacable wear plate held in place by the Allen head bolts holding the vise together.
6) To avoid having to readjust the tooth pawl when changing tooth sides, I use a short length of 1/4" fuel hose with a slit in the side to move the pawl back and forth. The slit hose is alternately pushing the pawl rearward or parked on the open side of the pawl bolt.
7) When grinding I use a tool to further stabilize the tooth against moving. The chain vise grips the drive links only, and with well-worn chains there can be wiggle room for the tooth. The tool is like an awl with a slight curl at the tip. I use it to bottom the drive links firmly while clamping, and I hold the tool tip firmly on the tooth while grinding.
8) I made a radial reference mark on the arbor where the wheels mount. I made radial reference marks on all the wheels, with matching marks on both sides of each wheel. When I mount a wheel, I align the marks pointing upward while pulling downward on the wheel while tightening the clamping bolt. This reduces the vibration caused by variations in wheel balance and slop in the arbor hole. If a wheel is smooth running when removed, it can be remounted and it will still run smooth.
8) I have experimented with forced air cooling, but I still don't have the right flexible nozzle rigged up.
9) The wheels I use are vitrified (mole-mab), Stihl diamond, and CBN. Each type has its fit.
10) The grinder is mounted on a length of lumber that can be clamped anywhere as needed.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 25, 2012)

galde said:


> I have an old Tecomec with reversing motor. I wouldn't have one without reversing capability.
> Some of my tweaks



Great ideas. Love to see some photos!

A few years back someone posted instructions for making the motor reversible - anybody got it? 

Somebody suggested that if they increased the range of motion for the head tilt and vise, you could grind both Left and Right cutters the 'right way' without a reversing motor, and the guarding problems associated with that.

Philbert


----------



## galde (Mar 25, 2012)

The reversibility feature was killed to secure U.L. listing since the U.L. "experts" deemed it unsafe for the grinder to throw sparks toward the operator. Some of the resulting grinders still had reversible motors but the new switches (double pole-single throw?) would not permit reversible wiring. The old reversing switches (double pole-double throw?)could still be used to make the units reversible. I don't know if the current models can be made reversible with the right switch.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 25, 2012)

galde said:


> The reversibility feature was killed to secure U.L. listing since the U.L. "experts" deemed it unsafe for the grinder to throw sparks toward the operator.



OSHA too. It's not just the sparks, it's for those rare, but real, occasions when the wheels explode.

Philbert


----------



## galde (Mar 26, 2012)

The wheel explosion likelihood was increased when the motors were no longer reversible. The unwary operator who fails to solidly grip the tooth is likely to burst the wheel after changing from the left teeth to the right teeth. Any play in the right-hand tooth lets the tooth lean into the wheel with violent results.


----------



## J.Walker (Mar 26, 2012)

Install thin washers between the vice half's to grip the chain better.

Check the run-out of the arbor. Mine was so far out it caused the grinding wheel woble.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 26, 2012)

J.Walker said:


> Check the run-out of the arbor. Mine was so far out it caused the grinding wheel woble.



Were you able to fix/compensate for this, or were you able to return it to OREGON as defective?

Philbert


----------



## J.Walker (Mar 26, 2012)

I took the motor with the arbor on it to a machine shop and they trued it up.
Now my cutters have a mirror finish after grinding.


----------



## Granite Stater (Mar 26, 2012)

J.Walker said:


> Now my cutters have a mirror finish after grinding.



What type of wheel are you using?


----------



## J.Walker (Mar 26, 2012)

Granite Stater said:


> What type of wheel are you using?




It's just a pink Oregon wheel.
Dressing the wheel is a very inportain for a smooth finish.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 26, 2012)

J.Walker said:


> Dressing the wheel is a very inportain for a smooth finish.



Made in Italy - I hope you are using Italian dressing!

Philbert


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 26, 2012)

J.Walker said:


> I took the motor with the arbor on it to a machine shop and they trued it up.
> Now my cutters have a mirror finish after grinding.



Was it bent or machined out of true?


----------



## J.Walker (Mar 26, 2012)

Machined the arbor is just pressed onto the shaft.


----------



## J.Walker (Mar 28, 2012)

Here is the grinder mounted on a board that is bolted to the workbench.
There is a swing arm lamp attached to the back of the board. More light the better for grinding.
The shock cord is attached to a nail at the bottom of the board.












.


----------



## J.Walker (Mar 28, 2012)

In the stock form you can see how high the grinder head is. The shock cord really helps.















.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 28, 2012)

J.Walker said:


> In the stock form you can see how high the grinder head is. The shock cord really helps.



The manufacturer actually sells a foot pedal option for the grinder. There is a cable that runs up through the hole in the base, and through the holes that I used to thread the boot lace. It seemed like an interesting idea, and could speed things up, but I don't think that I could get the same feel and finesse that I can by hand. Might try it sometime with cord, just to see.

Anyone try the foot pedal?

The self-clamping (hydraulic) vise also seems like a good idea. Some A.S. members seem to really like it. Others said that they had leaks and trouble getting parts. This might be something that a handy guy could rig up using a foot pedal and some hydraulic mountain bike brake parts, or maybe a small pneumatic cylinder?

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Mar 28, 2012)

*Hey Oregon (if you are listening)*

Here is an improvement I would like them to make: replace the large knobs with 'T'-handles. I have small hands and sometimes find them hard to grip, loosen, and tighten.

I can try and find some that are the right thread for my grinder, but it would be nice if they came that way - would be easier to use and would not cost them any more.

Philbert


----------



## timmcat (Mar 28, 2012)

The second gen hydraulic clamp is the way to go, all of the leakge issues have supposedly been solved. Unfortunately the 511ax hydraulic is way overpriced, You can get the tecomec for $399 and its a quality setup. My old 511a and my newer one both have the same weak vises, one of them has been upgraded to the stihl cam setup but it wears out fast when your doing 30-100 chains a week. Best thing I ever did was set up 1 grinder with the 1/8 wheel and another with the 3/16 wheel and a third in the middle for doing rakers. The raker grinder is an old foley unit but it works great for rakers. I've heard from other shops that the hydraulic vise will save you 20-30% of your time.

Foot pedal is very akward to use and doesn't give good feedback.


----------



## J.Walker (Mar 28, 2012)

I like having hand controll when grinding, just taking small ticks when cutting the tooth.

Marking the first tooth with a red marker helps show where your cutting.















.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 28, 2012)

J.Walker said:


> Marking the first tooth with a red marker helps show where your cutting.



I try to keep a marker or lumber crayon with my grinding wheels to mark the first cutter. Sometimes I just place a twist tie around one of the tie straps to mark it - it passes thought without too much trouble, and is hard to miss.

Philbert


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 28, 2012)

Philbert said:


> The manufacturer actually sells a foot pedal option for the grinder. There is a cable that runs up through the hole in the base, and through the holes that I used to thread the boot lace. It seemed like an interesting idea, and could speed things up, but I don't think that I could get the same feel and finesse that I can by hand. Might try it sometime with cord, just to see.
> 
> Anyone try the foot pedal?
> 
> ...



I have often thought of building something like this.... anyone have pics of a their setup? 

Thanks!

Dan


----------



## Stihlman441 (Mar 29, 2012)

I have been using a Cyclone CBN coated wheel,works well.


----------



## ncfarmboy (Mar 29, 2012)

I have an old Foley 308 with the foot pedal. I took it off. Didn't work for me. For the 308 guys: buy your wheels from Foley they are cheaper there than anywhere I have found.
Shep


----------



## Philbert (Apr 3, 2012)

I guess that we ought to list a better user's manual as an improvement that many would like to see!

That has been a common comment on several grinders.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (May 16, 2012)

*Technique Tip*

This is a technique tip provided by Galde in another thread, that bears re-posting here.

I mentioned that I would like the vise on this grinder to hold the cutters tighter, so that they moved and chattered less while being ground. He noted that he uses an improvised tool to press each cutter down tight against the vise, before locking it in place. Tried it today (with my finger) and it worked surprisingly well. Held the cutters rock solid.

Pulling the chain tight against the chain positioning dog, I realized that the dog tends to lift up the back of each cutter, and I was locking it in this lifted position. Pressing down on the rear of each cutter just before locking made a big difference. Your improvised tool could just be a short dowel rod if you don't want to use your finger. Should get a smoother and more consistent grind. Note that your top plate angles may be a a degree or two different, due to the changed angle of each cutter.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (May 18, 2012)

*Video*

Here's a YouTube video on using an Oregon grinder, posted by an Australian saw shop:


How to Sharpen Chain Saw Chains, Oregon Chainsaw Sharpening Guide - YouTube



A few things are different than the manual: 

- This video indicates to take the grinding wheel down to the bottom of the gullet, while the printed manual says to only take it down until the radius of the shaped wheel curve passes the top edge of the cutter (about as far as a file would go).

- This video also says to shape the wide wheel to match the curve of the depth gauges, which again, is slightly different than the manual.

But a clear video, which would be good for someone new to these grinders. It often helps to see someone do something first.

Philbert


----------



## Patrick62 (May 19, 2012)

Philbert said:


> Great ideas. Love to see some photos!
> 
> A few years back someone posted instructions for making the motor reversible - anybody got it?
> 
> ...



That would have been me. It is not complicated, and makes a bunch of difference. PM me, and I can find the info around here somewhere.


----------



## J.Walker (May 19, 2012)

Philbert said:


> This is a technique tip provided by Galde in another thread, that bears re-posting here.
> 
> I mentioned that I would like the vise on this grinder to hold the cutters tighter, so that they moved and chattered less while being ground. He noted that he uses an improvised tool to press each cutter down tight against the vise, before locking it in place. Tried it today (with my finger) and it worked surprisingly well. Held the cutters rock solid.
> 
> ...




I had that problem with the vice not holding the cutters tight. I replaced the spacers between the vice halfs with thinner washers, now the vice grips the cutters tight.


.


----------



## Philbert (May 19, 2012)

J.Walker said:


> I replaced the spacers between the vice halfs with thinner washers, now the vice grips the cutters tight.



That's a mod worth looking into. Did you see improvements on all gauges of chain, or more noticeable on the thinner stuff?

Anyone using the 511AX (different vise) have issues with how tight the drive links are held?

One of the things that struck me with pressing down the rear of each cutter before locking the vise, is that you probably end up with more consistent angles as well. Might not be enough to make a noticeable difference in cutting, but enough to get the attention of those guys using a DAF (digital angle finder) to set their rakers!

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jul 1, 2012)

*Ladder Mount*

I posted a more complete description of my portable, adjustable height stepladder mount in Post #8 of this thread:

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/202969.htm

But wanted to put a link to it in this thread, as it seemed related.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Feb 1, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Here is an improvement I would like them to make: replace the large knobs with 'T'-handles. I have small hands and sometimes find them hard to grip, loosen, and tighten.



FYI - I spent some time searching for these, and they have been surprisingly hard to find.

The threads on these bolts are metric: one is 10mm x 1.5 pitch, and one is 10mm x 1.00 pitch. I can get nuts this size from the little drawers in my local hardware store, but could not find 'T' handles with these threads, after rooting around for some time on the Internet. Might have to improvise with the hardware store nuts.

The newer 511AX model appears to use a quick release lever in the back (head tilt) instead of a star knob.

Philbert


----------



## willowrun23 (Feb 1, 2013)

*Fl136*



galde said:


> I have an old Tecomec with reversing motor. I wouldn't have one without reversing capability.
> Some of my tweaks:
> 1) I taped tygon fuel line lengths to the top casting to hold the allen wrenches for the shield and grinding wheel so they are always handy.
> 2) The head tilt is always either at true vertical or at 30 deg from vertical so I clamped stops at these angles so I don't have to strain my neck to read the scale on the back side every time.
> ...



I have never found that much use for the reverse function,but I use a brason wheel , which is well worth the money.


----------



## Philbert (Feb 2, 2013)

*Reverse Grind 'Trick'*

Found this by A.S. Member mweba on YouTube.

(Posted without endorsement):

Oregon chain grinder trick to reverse the wheel chainsaw - YouTube



Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Feb 2, 2013)

Thought I had posted these tips before: Might have been in another, related thread.

Good lighting is important for seeing the edges. I found that a small cosmetic style mirror is really helpful for looking at the other side of the cutters.




I found a Rubbermaid container that was just the right size to hold all of my wheels (separated by thin sheets of closed cell foam) and small tools I use when grinding (marker, twist ties, wheel gauge, hex wrenches, etc.). Unfortunately, they changed the size of these sandwich containers and the new ones are too small for the wheels! But you get the idea.




Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Mar 15, 2014)

*UPDATE* - I have tried to replace some of the photos that were lost, and also wanted to give this thread a Bump.

Here is a wheel selection guide from Tecomec - hard to find the non-standard wheels, but they could be a 'tweak' as well (aside from CBN wheels):




Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Mar 16, 2014)

Some other, related links:

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-511a-chain-grinder-expert-help-please.190145/

http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...uy-an-oregon-511-or-something-similar.248403/

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511ax-vise.228345/

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/depth-gauges-on-a-grinder.200410/

Here is a link to the Northern Tool grinder thread that inspired this one. Since the NT is a 511A 'copy', some of those tweaks may apply to a 511A as well:

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/northern-hyd-grinder-making-it-work-pics.40844/




Philbert


----------



## Homelite410 (Mar 16, 2014)

Very nice work on the thread Philbert.


----------



## Moparmyway (Mar 17, 2014)

View attachment 339846
View attachment 339847


Philbert said:


> Great ideas. Love to see some photos!
> 
> *A few years back someone posted instructions for making the motor reversible - anybody got it?*
> 
> ...


You need 2 switches. You can keep the origional to energize and de-energize the hot leg. Then use a DPDT switch to switch* EITHOR* the start winding or the run winding. On mine, the start winding was the red and blue leads from the motor-with the red to the capacitor. The black and green leads are from the run winding. The "start winding" is really the split part of the split pole motor, and not really a "start winding" as it never drops out, but shifts the phase to bring in an additional winding which aids in starting and helps the motor run stronger. Anyway ........ I kept the cap circuit wired in straight and I decided to switch the run winding, so I set the switch up to swap the run wires with the hot and neutral wires. Works like a champ !!

I made a plate for both switches and the wires are tucked away nicely .........


----------



## Philbert (Mar 17, 2014)

Thanks for the photos.

What's it like when the wheel is spinning towards you? Do you get a lot of dust or sparks in your face?

Philbert


----------



## Moparmyway (Mar 17, 2014)

I just stand off to the side a little, enough to be out of the way and still see what the wheel is doing. Never had anything hit me yet.
There is a good enough difference in the finish of the cutter for me to suggest that anyone with a 511a grinder should make it reversable !!!


----------



## Junkfxr (Mar 17, 2014)

Moparmyway said:


> I just stand off to the side a little, enough to be out of the way and still see what the wheel is doing. Never had anything hit me yet.
> There is a good enough difference in the finish of the cutter for me to suggest that anyone with a 511a grinder should make it reversable !!!


I have a 511AX and put the two switches on it after the first week of owning it and have never looked back. That was about 4 years ago. Like was said, just stand off to the side a little and never had a problem.


----------



## weedkilla (Mar 18, 2014)

Philbert said:


> FYI - I spent some time searching for these, and they have been surprisingly hard to find.
> 
> The threads on these bolts are metric: one is 10mm x 1.5 pitch, and one is 10mm x 1.00 pitch. I can get nuts this size from the little drawers in my local hardware store, but could not find 'T' handles with these threads, after rooting around for some time on the Internet. Might have to improvise with the hardware store nuts.
> 
> ...


You may have found a solution to this by now, but an easy fix is to weld a piece of tube on top of the nut (parallel) and then a piece of rod (perpendicular) to the top of the tube. 
The tube extends the depth the nut can be screwed down, and the rod provides the handle. A squirt of paint and the job is done.


----------



## w8ye (Mar 18, 2014)

I was all interested in the reversing and felt that I just had to do it. After getting the early 511A grinder and using it some without the reversing function, and then checking the cutters, I don't think I will bother with setting up the two switches for the reversing function.

I still enjoyed reading this recounter of setting up the reverse function. I had saved pictures from the earlier threads on reversing the Oregon/Tecomec grinders.

I also have a Silvey swing arm square grinder that reverses and I use it as intended by Silvey by always grinding from the outside - in.


----------



## Moparmyway (Mar 18, 2014)

I never thought I would do it eithor, but it was a rainy day, I had several projects on my bench waiting for parts with no more space to start a new project, so I just wanted to look at the wiring to see how easy or how hard it would be to make my 511a spin in reverse. When I saw how much room was there for 2 switches, and then saw the DPDT switch in one of my draws .............. the soldering iron came out. I was done in 1/2 hour and I took a chain from a project, sharpened it up and compared it to a chain that was done before the 511a could go in reverse ................... when you see the quality of your own work improove by investing 1/2 hour in a rather simple project, it becomes something more than "a nice feature" to talk about. A few customers have made mention that they dont tend to drift to the right in the cut anymore eithor ............... maybe thats true, maybe not, but they perceive it and I have gotten a few more chains to sharpen and machines to work on from their "word of mouth" ................... plus - nobody else around here has a reversable grinder, just me !!!!!!!!!! WooHooooooo !!!!!


----------



## Philbert (Apr 10, 2014)

Another method for limiting grinder head travel - courtesy of C5Rulz.

Easy to remove for wheel changes, etc. 

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jun 30, 2014)

*Wing Bolt*

This was a minor annoyance. I still need to use a hex ('Allen') wrench to change the grinding wheel, but it annoyed me to use a different sized wrench to loosen the cover first, and to tighten it after. Hard to find a 5mm threaded knob at my local hardware store, so I got a slightly longer 5mm bolt, a wing nut, jam nut, and washer, and made this up.

I would use a nicer knob for OEM, but this is pretty simple and it works (original bolt and wing nut/bolt side-by-side). I see this part of the guard left off on many grinders, so it may be a common annoyance.






Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jul 7, 2014)

*Boss Mod*

There are many small variations between different models of these grinders, and some changes through the years. On my 511A, there is a mounting boss for some accessory (?) on the back of the chain holding vise. The shape of this raised area has always made it hard to grip the locking nut on the vise centering screw.




I knew that if I cut/ground it completely off, I would suddenly find out what it was for. So I finally decided to just open up more clearance for a wrench. I used a Dremel tool, without disassembling the vise. The metal used in this Oregon version is very hard, and it was slow going with an abrasive stone. The stones also filled up very quickly. I had much better success using a reinforced cut off wheel (although, I first had to wear it down to an appropriate size).









Picked up a cheap 10mm wrench at a garage sale, and I keep that with the grinder, wheels, hex keys, etc.

Philbert


----------



## Wood Doctor (Jul 7, 2014)

I kept losing the hex wrenches for changing the wheel and removing the guard. Not any more:





Two slots that I cut with my table saw underneath the hardwood block match the size of the hex wrenches. The wing nut locks them to the grinder base.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 7, 2014)

I used a short piece of rubber hose to hold the 2 hex wrenches together (harder to lose) and keep them in the small box with the other things (lumber crayon, twist ties, dressing brick, wheel gauge, etc.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jul 8, 2014)

J.Walker said:


> Install thin washers between the vice half's to grip the chain better.





J.Walker said:


> I had that problem with the vice not holding the cutters tight. I replaced the spacers between the vice halfs with thinner washers, now the vice grips the cutters tight.


J.Walker posted this 2 years ago. Took me a while to get around to it!

My grinder had been holding the chain OK - at least I did not notice any movement. Over time, it started to feel a little sloppy. I measured the space between the rails with stacked feeler gauges and came up with approximately 0.095 inches - much more than any 0.063 gauge chain I might sharpen!

Disassembled the clamping rails (2 screws) and found some wear, where it meets the cam, that could be responsible for some of the change.




Measured the ring spacers, which came out pretty close to 0.10 inches.




These are low risk parts to modify - easy to replace. I drilled shallow holes in a block of wood to hold the spacers and filed them down to about 0.080*** inches.




This vise still only clamps a single drive link, but it seemed to hold it rock steady once again.

The vise rails actually have 2 sets of mounting holes, can be interchanged, etc., giving a user several wear spots for the locking cam. I mounted them in the original position just to see what effect the thinner spacers had by themselves. It's also pretty easy to loosen up the mounting bolts, or to replace the spacers, in case you need to grind some chain with thicker drive links than the standard .043, .050, .058, .063 chain.

Thanks J. Walker!

Philbert

_*** Note: see follow up post, below. _


----------



## Philbert (Jul 8, 2014)

Running some .063 chain today, the vice clamped the drive links very securely. But I am getting some hang up at the lower ends of the vise rails (?).

These only serve to guide the drive links into and out of the vice, so they do not need a precision gap. I will double check to make sure that these bars are straight, and bevel the inside edges of these with a file and ScotchBrite abrasive wheel.

If you do not want to do this, perhaps only file the spacers down to .090 inches to start.

Philbert


----------



## srcarr52 (Jul 9, 2014)

I made a thread on reversing the NT grinder, it's named wrong with HF. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/reversing-a-hf-grinder-3-wire-ac-motor.181620/


----------



## Wood Doctor (Jul 9, 2014)

Here's my bench mount caddie that I use to hold the sharpener to my workbench bench with its vise. I made it with quartersawn white oak:


----------



## w8ye (Jul 9, 2014)

That wood is plain sawn.

Not that it actually makes any difference in this application.

http://www.hardwooddistributors.org...quarter-sawn-rift-sawn-and-plain-sawn-lumber/

http://www.hardwooddistributors.org/blog/postings/what-is-quarter-sawn-wood/


----------



## Wood Doctor (Jul 10, 2014)

w8ye said:


> That wood is plain sawn.
> 
> Not that it actually makes any difference in this application.
> 
> ...


The 5/4 sections are quartersawn. The 4/4 long back is plain sawn. Good catch but I got you on the 5/4. I used that to build by outdoor deck flooring and bought about 600 bd ft of it. This caddie was made with leftover cutoffs. And, yes, it makes no difference here. Any good hardwood would work.

Perhaps the best overall feature is that you can remove the bracket from the bench with the grinder attached and free up the vise and bench for another project or repair. The grinder and its bracket then become one integrated unit.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 8, 2014)

Here is a link to a thread on improving centering on the Oregon 511AX and Hydraulic (# 551462) chain grinders:

http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...462-centering-adjustment-is-there-one.260861/

Figured that it is close enough related to be of interest.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Oct 12, 2014)

I noted in an earlier post that I like to keep my grinding wheels (and all the little things that go with them: hex wrenches, dressing stone, etc.) together in a Rubbermaid/Tupperware style container with the grinder, since I don't always set it up in the same place. It also protects the wheels from damage.

I guess I got lucky the first time. Rubbermaid changed the shape of their containers - if the wheels fit in the top, they don't fit in the bottom. And if they fit in the bottom, the tops are huge! Anyway, I traced a new wheel onto some cardboard, cut it out, and kept it in my car for checking at garage sales, thrift stores, etc. Finally 'scored' this weekend at an estate sale.




Philbert

(P.S. The larger, 8 inch wheels for a Silvey grinder fit nicely into a tortilla container from a Mexican restaurant!)


----------



## Wood Doctor (Oct 12, 2014)

I decided to post this, even though it may not be an enhancement or tweak. A logger brought me a 91-link loop of Oregon 60 chain. Now, I know that most of you are unfamiliar with this chain, so perhaps I should describe the loop.

The pitch is about an inch. The gauge is about 0.125". The chain loop weighed at least 25 pounds. He was using it on a large hydraulic buck saw and wanted it sharpened because it seemed a bit dull. He said that it was throwing chips only about 20 feet and it was taking about 20 seconds to get through a 36" dia. Eastern cottonwood log. He wondered if I could touch it up on my Oregon 511a sharpener to improve operation.

Well, all I had was a 1/4" thick grinding wheel, and I figured it really needed a 5/16" thick wheel. However, he had to get back out to the field and Bailey's was out of stock on the 5/16" wheel. So, I said, "Andy, I think I can make do and I'll see if I can modify my 511a to handle the job. "

I went to work. The stop had to be removed and the depth adjusting screw had to be cut way back. Then I widened the drive link squeeze press to handle 1/8" thick drive links (twice the thickness on 063). Luckily, my bench vise and special hand-made mount for the grinder could handle the chain loop's enormous weight. I had to sight the location of each link before dropping the grinding wheel and adjust it several times by hand for each grind. Then I checked the sharpness of each cutter with a magnifying glass and my thumb before moving on. When finished, I found a strong box to drop the chain loop into and carried it back to Andy the next day.

He mounted the sharpened chain onto his hydraulic buck cutter and cut a big log. It now took only ten seconds per pass and chips flew for over 30 feet. Also, he could tell that less pressure was required for each cut. Mission accomplished. BTW, I do not think that any popular grind sharpener with hydraulic assist could have been modified to sharpen this huge chain because of the thick gauge and mass involved.


----------



## Philbert (Oct 12, 2014)

This probably belongs more in the 'Challenge Chain' thread!

Quite a testament to you and the tool. I know that the 511A had an optional vise for 3/4 pitch harvester chain, but I have never seen or used it. 

Philbert


----------



## Wood Doctor (Oct 13, 2014)

Philbert said:


> This probably belongs more in the 'Challenge Chain' thread!
> 
> Quite a testament to you and the tool. I know that the 511A had an optional vise for 3/4 pitch harvester chain, but I have never seen or used it.
> 
> Philbert


I noticed that option also, but we elected to try to live without it. This chain may have to be sharpened only a few times a year. A big hydraulic motor drives it. Surprisingly, it can be removed rather easily for servicing. The stop mechanism on the 511a was also easy for me to remove, and widening the vise slot for the cam to squeeze on was rather easy as well.

Handling a chain this size was the real challenge. I made a mark on the vise with a Sharpie to approximate the cutter location as I went from one to the next. Then I zeroed in on the placement, trial and error, slowly creeping up on the final placement. Gloves were a must and the cutters would get hot, of course. I was able to do it all without shutting down the motor, but I had to be careful.

You really have to see a bucking saw like this in action in order to appreciate what it can do. I don't have any pics, unfortunately. But, try to imagine chips flying 30 feet or more out from the chain and cutting through a 3' dia. log in 10 seconds. The chain runs opposite the direction of a typical chain saw. The machine's operator can also pick the log up between cuts and drop it onto a flatbed for hauling to the sawmill. Logging efficiency is practically doubled.

My 5/16" thick grinding wheel finally arrived, ready to be dressed for the next occasion. We may actually see a performance improvement with that wheel and now that I have the hang of it.


----------



## Philbert (Oct 13, 2014)

Wood Doctor said:


> Handling a chain this size was the real challenge. I made a mark on the vise with a Sharpie to approximate the cutter location as I went from one to the next. Then I zeroed in on the placement, trial and error, slowly creeping up on the final placement.



Expect photos next time!

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (May 2, 2015)

*Time to Bump this Thread!*

Cleaned up some saws, sorted some chains, and, put together a pile of about 15 chains to sharpen. Still not happy with the way the vise on my 511A is gripping drive links, especially smaller chains. Assume that it has to do with the wear on the plate from the locking cam (see also photo in Post# 53):






Shifted the plate over one set of holes (both photos are 'After'):



Really helped. I assume that shifting the plates, and exchanging them front to back, gives me 4 wear positions. If I grind off those 2 alignment nubs, or drill a few extra sets of mounting holes, I can get another dozen or so positions?

Philbert


----------



## Wood Doctor (May 3, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *Time to Bump this Thread!*
> 
> Cleaned up some saws, sorted some chains, and, put together a pile of about 15 chains to sharpen. Still not happy with the way the vise on my 511A is gripping drive links, especially smaller chains. Assume that it has to do with the wear on the plate from the locking cam (see also photo in Post# 53):
> 
> ...


Well you are more energetic than most on these things. I haven't run into this problem with my 511a and the adjustments are rather flexible for chain gauge and tooth size. Exchanging the plates front to back never occurred to me, but I'll keep that in mind. You might also want to check that the plates are dead flat. I think they should be. Over time they could bend ever so slightly.

One simple thing I do is put some tension on the chain with my left hand before locking or lowering the stone. That seems to add sharpening consistency.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (May 3, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *Wing Bolt*
> 
> This was a minor annoyance. I still need to use a hex ('Allen') wrench to change the grinding wheel, but it annoyed me to use a different sized wrench to loosen the cover first, and to tighten it after. Hard to find a 5mm threaded knob at my local hardware store, so I got a slightly longer 5mm bolt, a wing nut, jam nut, and washer, and made this up.
> 
> ...



Just throw that cover out, it has no real function.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (May 3, 2015)

We have 3 of them at the shop, one has run enough chains that the center post has about worn though the cam on the lock lever.
As far as I've noticed the actual vise is still fine. It sharpens about as well as the other 2 and one is brand new... well circa 2000, but was NOS and put together 2 weeks ago.




Wood Doctor said:


> Well you are more energetic than most on these things. I haven't run into this problem with my 511a and the adjustments are rather flexible for chain gauge and tooth size. Exchanging the plates front to back never occurred to me, but I'll keep that in mind. You might also want to check that the plates are dead flat. I think they should be. Over time they could bend ever so slightly.
> 
> One simple thing I do is put some tension on the chain with my left hand before locking or lowering the stone. That seems to add sharpening consistency.


----------



## Philbert (May 3, 2015)

I have not kept track, but have run at least a couple hundred chains through mine. Some stuff is bound to wear. 

Good news is that that repair parts are available for the Oregon and Tecomec models. And there are so many of these grinders out there, that they still have value 'for parts', even if worn, damaged, or broken. 

Philbert


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (May 3, 2015)

Philbert said:


> I have not kept track, but have run at least a couple hundred chains through mine. Some stuff is bound to wear.
> 
> Good news is that that repair parts are available for the Oregon and Tecomec models. And there are so many of these grinders out there, that they still have value 'for parts', even if worn, damaged, or broken.
> 
> Philbert



If I would guess, that grinder is about 15-20 years old and it has done a lot of grinding. I've never counted, but we do probably 15-20 loops a week on average. For a while some years back the mechanic said he spent at least a day, sometimes two a week just doing chains as that's how many came in each week.

Point being it will last a long time with normal use. They are good machines.


----------



## CR888 (May 3, 2015)

The oregon 511ax grinder is such a clever idea l kinda feel bad for owning a copy. l was given a copy over two years ago and it has ground many chains for commercial saw work. lts now getting a little sloppy but the only thing l have replaced is the light globe that blew. l am on the hunt for a ridgy didge Oregon/Tecomech now as l think the design patent owner deserves my money for what is such a clever well designed tool. lt may cost a little more but l believe the quality is worth it and for the future of grinder development its important to me. l have my grinder mounted on the top of a alluminum A frame style step ladder using QuickGrip clamps so l can stand and get my head close to the action and dismantle easily if l need the step ladder. It also means its very portable as long as you have an extension power cord.


----------



## Philbert (May 4, 2015)

CR888 said:


> l have my grinder mounted on the top of a alluminum A frame style step ladder using QuickGrip clamps so l can stand and get my head close to the action and dismantle easily if l need the step ladder.



Can you post a few photos?

I have mine set up to mount on the steps of a step ladder for portability (height adjustment was a bonus!) - photos above (Page 2).

New models this year: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/new-oregon-grinders-2015.270287/

Philbert


----------



## Wood Doctor (May 5, 2015)

Say, has anyone ever driven a 511a using a DC to AC converter that can be connected to a truck's battery?

I thought about doing this for my logger friends to reduce their hand-sharpening time. I have a portable work bench with a vise for clamping the grinder to it. The idea is to use it out in the woods when we are miles from AC current. It only needs about 500 watts. Any thoughts?


----------



## Philbert (May 5, 2015)

Wood Doctor said:


> Say, has anyone ever driven a 511a using a DC to AC converter that can be connected to a truck's battery?


Oregon made a few models of 'mini-grinders' that ran off 12 volts, and used a smaller, 4-1/8" diameter wheel. These were recently discontinued, but should still be available.

Northern Tool sells a 'Roughneck' model 12 volt grinder that mounts on the guide bar. I am sure that there are other versions of these available. There are also several versions of the rotary grinders (STIHL, Oregon, Granberg, etc.) that run directly off 12V.

Never used any of these personally, but would be tempted to try one before a large inverter.

I have set up a small generator, doing storm clean up work, and run 511A type grinders in the field. That inspired my step ladder mount!

Philbert


----------



## Moparmyway (May 6, 2015)

Wood Doctor said:


> Say, has anyone ever driven a 511a using a DC to AC converter that can be connected to a truck's battery?
> 
> I thought about doing this for my logger friends to reduce their hand-sharpening time. I have a portable work bench with a vise for clamping the grinder to it. The idea is to use it out in the woods when we are miles from AC current. It only needs about 500 watts. Any thoughts?


http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...uous-1500-watt-peak-power-inverter-66817.html


----------



## Wood Doctor (May 6, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/automo...uous-1500-watt-peak-power-inverter-66817.html


I saw that one and several others. It looks like it might be worth the $45 gamble to try it. My shop-made, knock-down portable bench is also height adjustable, so I can bring the mounted grinder right up to 42" above ground.

A few loggers are very good at hand sharpening, but several are not nearly as skilled and need help with long chains. One kwh should not drag the truck battery down that much and I think I could do three to five long chains within one kwh. Seem reasonable?


----------



## Moparmyway (May 6, 2015)

Wood Doctor said:


> I saw that one and several others. It looks like it might be worth the $45 gamble to try it. My shop-made, knock-down portable bench is also height adjustable, so I can bring the mounted grinder right up to 42" above ground.
> 
> A few loggers are very good at hand sharpening, but several are not nearly as skilled and need help with long chains. One kwh should not drag the truck battery down that much and I think I could do three to five long chains within one kwh. Seem reasonable?


Depends on chain condition ............ I would just run the vehicle for the first 3 (worst) chains, then off the battery for the last one or two ............. if 5 chains were the demand.

One long chain ends up taking a long time if it got rocked or grabbed a spike in the cut


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (May 6, 2015)

That big chain you did, 11bc60 chain is .75 .122 chain. Lot of bigger harvesters use it. I've got a couple bars and chains at the shop.
Here is some against 3/8 chainsaw chain.


----------



## Wood Doctor (May 6, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> That big chain you did, 11bc60 chain is .75 .122 chain. Lot of bigger harvesters use it. I've got a couple bars and chains at the shop.
> Here is some against 3/8 chainsaw chain.
> 
> View attachment 423033


That looks very similar. This chain loop about wore my arms out moving it from cutter to cutter. The pitch was so big that I had to remove the stop and "sneak up" on the next grind position. Adjusting the vice clamps for the thick gauge was the hardest part of the setup. I believe the 5' loop had to weigh close to 25 pounds. When the cutters get dull, it will still cut through soft trees and throw chips 30 feet, so it often suffers from sharpening neglect. But, the ends of the logs start looking very rough.

The nice thing about the equipment (Prentice, in this case) is that all the logs come out within 4" of each other in length. If all were straight and true, the accuracy would be even better. And, we were able to use the Prentice as a loader to the bunk trailer as well as a bucking cutter. So, it gave our truck picker a break in the action.


----------



## Philbert (May 8, 2015)

*Switch Placement*

Another '_Oregon-if-you-are-listening_' type suggestion: I would like to see the On/Off switch relocated so that it is easier to see. I usually do this by feel when grinding. Would be nice to have it up front, or on the side, where I could clearly see it, even with the grinder head in the full up position.

Philbert


----------



## Wood Doctor (May 8, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *Switch Placement*
> 
> Another '_Oregon-if-you-are-listening_' type suggestion: I would like to see the On/Off switch relocated so that it is easier to see. I usually do this by feel when grinding. Would be nice to have it up front, or on the side, where I could clearly see it, even with the grinder head in the full up position.
> 
> Philbert


Good point. I suppose we could mount a mirror somewhere. It becomes second nature after awhile, but that does not help a new buyer. Cost and wire routing may have something to do with it.

Still contemplating the DC-AC inverter idea. The chief sawyer says he wants his men to learn how to file sharpen cutters in the field at the work site the same way he does. He says they are all too lazy to learn and it drives him bonkers. And, he fears that they will then not be careful and hit the ground more often while bucking logs.


----------



## Junkfxr (May 13, 2015)

Wood Doctor said:


> Say, has anyone ever driven a 511a using a DC to AC converter that can be connected to a truck's battery?
> 
> I thought about doing this for my logger friends to reduce their hand-sharpening time. I have a portable work bench with a vise for clamping the grinder to it. The idea is to use it out in the woods when we are miles from AC current. It only needs about 500 watts. Any thoughts?



I do it all of the time. I have a 3000 watt modified sine wave inverter mounted in the tool box on the truck with an auxiliary battery that's charged through a battery isolator. I also have a vice that mounts in the receiver hitch that the grinder gets clamped in. The grinder doesn't need any where near that big of an inverter but it gets used for a lot more than grinding chains.


----------



## Philbert (May 13, 2015)

Junkfxr said:


> I have a 3000 watt modified sine wave inverter mounted in the tool box on the truck with an auxiliary battery that's charged through a battery isolator.



There are a lot of cheap inverters out there, that don't hold up, or don't put out what they say. So it's good to have some 'overcapacity'. 

Sounds like you have yours set up right: not just running out of a cigarette lighter adaptor!

Philbert


----------



## Wood Doctor (May 14, 2015)

Junkfxr said:


> I do it all of the time. I have a 3000 watt modified sine wave inverter mounted in the tool box on the truck with an auxiliary battery that's charged through a battery isolator. I also have a vice that mounts in the receiver hitch that the grinder gets clamped in. The grinder doesn't need any where near that big of an inverter but it gets used for a lot more than grinding chains.


Just got back from a logger's equipment auction in northern Wisconsin. While there, I talked to several other saw service people who have put together a similar setup but smaller scale like I was planning. In their book, it works. They also tote around a separate battery rather than wear down the truck's battery. Usually, they can get several hours of grinder operation on a full charge. Then they trickle charge it back up overnight in the garage. One guy's battery has lasted two years and still holds a charge.

Number one warning is: "Don't use the grinder or the power supply out in the rain. Keep it dry."


----------



## Junkfxr (May 14, 2015)

Wood Doctor said:


> Just got back from a logger's equipment auction in northern Wisconsin. While there, I talked to several other saw service people who have put together a similar setup but smaller scale like I was planning. In their book, it works. They also tote around a separate battery rather than wear down the truck's battery. Usually, they can get several hours of grinder operation on a full charge. Then they trickle charge it back up overnight in the garage. One guy's battery has lasted two years and still holds a charge.
> 
> Number one warning is: "Don't use the grinder or the power supply out in the rain. Keep it dry."



That's the reason for using a battery isolator. I can run the extra battery dead if need be and not affect the starting battery. I don't have an actual battery isolator, I'm using a 500 amp relay wired to the ignition switch. Whenever the switch is on, the extra battery is connected to the main truck battery through the relay and gets charged while driving. Helps starting the truck on cold mornings also. I've used this type of set up for at least 25 years on various trucks and equipment and have put the same set up in countless other peoples equipment and never had a problem. Sure beats trying to file a rocked chain on a 36" bar in the woods.


----------



## Wood Doctor (May 17, 2015)

This thread gets better with time. I found an old Sears 3248 Die Hard in the garage that a friend left me after he moved away over five years ago. Never used, I decided to try and rejuvenate it. I've trickle charged it at 750 ma for about 60 hours and slowly added about a cup of water in total to the cells. I still don't have a flashing green on the charger indicator, but I decided this morning to see what it could do. 

I hooked up the DC/AC inverter, plugged in my 511a, and threw the switch. The light came on and the motor ran! Battery terminal voltage now measures 12.41 under load and 12.48 under no load. The charger delivers 13.2 v. After a few minutes, I switched off the grinder and hooked the charger back up.

I also found an old B&D Workmate vise that I seldom use. I'm going to mount that to my adjustable saw horse and clamp the 511a to it. Soon as that's done, I'll post Pics of my new completed contraption, soon to be known as a portable saw chain sharpening station.


----------



## Philbert (May 17, 2015)

I'm thinking of the foot treadle on an old sewing machine stand . . . save all of the adaptors. 

Philbert


----------



## MontanaResident (May 17, 2015)

I just had to use mine this morning. Probably the 10th time I've used it in the last year. It's a cheap knock off, and has its quirks, but it is fast and for a rough chain is a great thing to have.

The problem I have is the indexing of the chain. It does not have much precision, so the grind is to much or to little from link to link. The machine is sloppy enough that I can just ease the arm into or away as necessary to grind only just enough to put the edge back on the cutter.


----------



## Wood Doctor (May 17, 2015)

Philbert said:


> I'm thinking of the foot treadle on an old sewing machine stand . . . save all of the adaptors.
> 
> Philbert


Actually, I erred above on the model number of the DieHard. It's actually a 31248 and the age is much older than I first thought. Time flies. The original owner moved out in the spring of 2005. He could have had it for a number of months, so I suspect this unused battery is over 10 years old. I cannot find a date stamped anywhere on it, so if I ever get it fully charged, it may be a small miracle. Others have told me that trickle charging is the only way to go with an old relic and to have patience. I tend to agree.

I've also thought of another hook-up to the power station--a box fan that I can run while splitting and stacking wood. It gets hot in the summer and where I split logs (near a creek bed) there is very little breeze.


----------



## Junkfxr (May 17, 2015)

Wood Doctor said:


> Actually, I erred above on the model number of the DieHard. It's actually a 31248 and the age is much older than I first thought. Time flies. The original owner moved out in the spring of 2005. He could have had it for a number of months, so I suspect this unused battery is over 10 years old. I cannot find a date stamped anywhere on it, so if I ever get it fully charged, it may be a small miracle. Others have told me that trickle charging is the only way to go with an old relic and to have patience. I tend to agree.
> 
> I've also thought of another hook-up to the power station--a box fan that I can run while splitting and stacking wood. It gets hot in the summer and where I split logs (near a creek bed) there is very little breeze.



If you'll bring that battery up to 15.0-15.5 volts very slowly then hold it there for about an hour then slowly bring it back down to to about 13.5 and hold it there, there's a good chance that it may come back to life. You need to boil it to 1) remix the acid and water that has separated (stratified) from sitting so long and 2) break up the deposits that have formed on the faces of the plates. That is assuming that you have a battery with liquid acid in it and not gel or absorbed in glass mat.


----------



## Wood Doctor (Jun 7, 2015)

Junkfxr said:


> If you'll bring that battery up to 15.0-15.5 volts very slowly then hold it there for about an hour then slowly bring it back down to to about 13.5 and hold it there, there's a good chance that it may come back to life. You need to boil it to 1) remix the acid and water that has separated (stratified) from sitting so long and 2) break up the deposits that have formed on the faces of the plates. That is assuming that you have a battery with liquid acid in it and not gel or absorbed in glass mat.


Yes, it has liquid acid and it did boil. I ran the sharpener for 15 minutes yesterday. I'm going to give it a try this week in the field to see how long it can run the sharpener. If nothing else, I'll run a fan to cool off the operator while he splits campfire wood in 90-degree heat. The fan motor only pulls 1.5 amp at 120 volts or 180 v-a. If my calculations are correct, I may get 2 hours or so of forced air breeze and one truckload of split logs before the battery quits.


----------



## redoakneck (Aug 21, 2015)

So.... when you grind with a reversable grinder, do grind outside to inside, or opposite???

On the 511a I do the the right cutters with the stock direction (sparks into back of grinder), and the left cutters with the reverse direction??


----------



## Philbert (Aug 21, 2015)

redoakneck said:


> So.... when you grind with a reversable grinder, do grind outside to inside, or opposite?


'Outside-in' if you don't want a burr.

Philbert


----------



## redoakneck (Aug 21, 2015)

Thanks Philbert!!!! U r awesome!!!


----------



## redoakneck (Aug 21, 2015)

What is the best wheel for doing stihl rs/rm chain????


I have the molemab pinkies now. Seem to work OK, I haven't had a lot of cut time on my ground chain, not as good as hand filed w fg2, but much, much quicker to sharpen.

Those picco cutters seem to heat up too much when I grind them, prolly too impatient.


----------



## lambs (Aug 21, 2015)

redoakneck said:


> What is the best wheel for doing stihl rs/rm chain????
> 
> 
> I have the molemab pinkies now. Seem to work OK, I haven't had a lot of cut time on my ground chain, not as good as hand filed w fg2, but much, much quicker to sharpen.
> ...




If you really want to keep the heat down, you need a CBN wheel with cutouts in it through to the edge. Mine has 8 or 9 of them. They create a good breeze and since the edge of the wheel has breaks in it, it breaks contact with the cutter as it grinds. 

Having said that, Molemab is fine, just keep it dressed properly and tap gently on the cutters…...


----------



## Philbert (Aug 21, 2015)

lambs said:


> Molemab is fine, just keep it dressed properly and tap gently on the cutters…...



+1

Patience, light taps, and frequent dressing.



lambs said:


> If you really want to keep the heat down, you need a CBN wheel with cutouts in it through to the edge.


Or these:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/resinoid-grinder-wheels.256733/

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Aug 21, 2015)

redoakneck said:


> I have the molemab pinkies now. Seem to work OK, . . .



I was just on the Bailey's site looking at the Molemab wheels (on sale now!). They say that the Molemab wheels are 80 grit and the Oregon wheels are 60 grit, so there is a difference. Here's a comment from Grande Dog comparing the two when he worked there:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/molemab-grinding-wheels.179582/

Philbert


----------



## redoakneck (Aug 22, 2015)

Just ordered the retinoid black wheels!!! Thanks again


----------



## Philbert (Aug 22, 2015)

redoakneck said:


> Just ordered the retinoid black wheels!!! Thanks again


Great! Please post your comments, impressions, etc., good or bad, in that thread, after you have had a chance to use them for a while.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/resinoid-grinder-wheels.256733/

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Aug 22, 2015)

*Chain Positioning Stop
*
I started a thread on cheap, Harbor Freight grinders: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/hf-chain-grinder-thread.268303/
and one on a similar looking Oregon mini-grinder: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-310-mini-grinder.283691/
where I noticed that the chain positioning stop ('dog', 'pawl', etc.) on the 310 grinder was positioned much higher than the others. This resulted in the cutter being forced down into the chain holding vise, in addition to keeping it from sliding back. My only concern on that grinder was clearance for the motor.

Then I started thinking about my 511A (back to this thread), and wondered if the stop could be raised to hold the cutters down better on this grinder. There is certainly enough clearance for the motor. Both the 'chain stop' and its support post ('chain stop holder') are pretty simple, and could be fabricated out of either flat steel, or some 'U'-shaped channel. 

I took some approximate measurements on my 511A, and a Tecomec Speed Sharp grinder (similar to a 511AX) and found the stop length about 1-7/8 inches long; the support post height about 2-1/4 inches tall, and about 1 inch wide on both of these models. On a Tecomec Super Jolly (similar to Oregon 109179 hydraulic grinder) the stop is about 3/8 of an inch longer; the support post about 3/4 of an inch taller; but slightly narrower (about 3/4 of an inch).






Not sure why they are different, but I'm thinking that if I can swap in the longer/taller stops it should hold the cutters better on my 511AX. If it works, replacement parts from the manufacturer would be easier than making them.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Aug 24, 2015)

Tecomec Super Jolly vise for comparison. Taller support post and steeper angle of chain stop is apparent. Approximate dimensions in post above.



Philbert


----------



## brian99574 (Aug 24, 2015)

I have the tecomec jolly hydraulic grinder. It replaced a Oregon 511A. The hydraulic model is definitely faster. Other wise the clamp is better on the jolly but everything is about the same. Done 100's of sharpening on the Oregon and just wanted to try another grinder. I recommend either one.


----------



## redoakneck (Aug 24, 2015)

Looks like shortening the cutter stop on the 511 may help prevent the cutter from raising up in the back??? Might try cutting a 1/2 inch off the end and see if pulling on the left side of the chain pulls the cutter down and tighter while clamping.

Easier for me to pull down on the left side of the hanging chain, than to use a dowel to push the cutter down and clamp at the same time.


----------



## lambs (Aug 24, 2015)

redoakneck said:


> Looks like shortening the cutter stop on the 511 may help prevent the cutter from raising up in the back??? Might try cutting a 1/2 inch off the end and see if pulling on the left side of the chain pulls the cutter down and tighter while clamping.
> 
> Easier for me to pull down on the left side of the hanging chain, than to use a dowel to push the cutter down and clamp at the same time.



I push the cutter down and back with my right hand while I start to tighten the cam with my left hand.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 25, 2015)

*Twins!


*
(Just like that Arnold Schwarzenegger / Danny DeVito movie).

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Aug 25, 2015)

*Frankengrinder!




*
Pretty direct swap. Had to bush out the mounting bolt slightly, due to the narrower width of the taller support post (bolts were same length - vises are different thickness).

Philbert


----------



## rd35 (Aug 25, 2015)

lambs said:


> I push the cutter down and back with my right hand while I start to tighten the cam with my left hand.


 
Me too!


----------



## Philbert (Aug 25, 2015)

*I Have the Clearance, Clarence!


*
Taller support post and longer stop mounted on 511A. Also tried it with the grinding wheel completely removed. Could be an issue when the wheel is completely run down?

We'll see!

Philbert


----------



## Nine6Teen (Aug 25, 2015)

Hi ... newb here ... go easy on me.
Can someone explain how and why it is necessary to slightly adjust the chain stop length when you switch over from the right side cutters to the left side cutters ? and what is the definition of right side versus left side cutters, and does it matter if you do either side first ? thanks


----------



## Philbert (Aug 25, 2015)

*Initial Results/Impressions . . .*



lambs said:


> I push the cutter down and back with my right hand while I start to tighten the cam with my left hand.





rd35 said:


> Me too!



This has been mentioned a few times in this thread. Trying to avoid having to do that.

I tried it with a test chain: STIHL, .325, .063, 62 DL bumper drive links, very similar to those I have been sharpening lately. Ground Left and Right cutters, chased gullets on both sides, adjusted the depth gauges (L and R separately): all the things I would normally do on a grinder. Very positive results. The taller post/longer stop seems to be hold the cutters more securely down. This has especially been an issue grinding depth gauges, because they are at the front of the cutter, and the chain vise essentially _holds the drive link in front of the cutte_r being sharpened, not the cutter itself. So if the cutter's heel was going to tilt up, that would be the time.

I am going to check with my dealer about buying replacement parts for the taller post/longer stop and will post any part numbers and prices here that I can find. Some guys might want to make these parts on their own.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Aug 25, 2015)

Nine6Teen said:


> Can someone explain how and why it is necessary to slightly adjust the chain stop length when you switch over from the right side cutters to the left side cutters ?



These are '_semi-precision_' grinders, so there is some error in them. Depending on the model you have/use, there is a procedure for centering the vise so that the R and L cutters are ground to the same length. This should be in your owner's manual, and is mentioned in several A.S. threads. Even then, it is just good practice to assume that there will be some difference, and to compensate for that with your work methods.

There is also a difference in the depth that the wheel grinds for R and L cutters, because the edge of the wheel touches each at a different part of it's circumference. Again, good work methods compensate for that (see bottom of this reply).



Nine6Teen said:


> what is the definition of right side versus left side cutters . . .


 As the operator is holding the saw with the bar and chain mounted correctly, the cutters on the right side are the right cutters, and the cutters on the left side . . . (well, you get it now).



Nine6Teen said:


> . . .does it matter if you do either side first ?



Up to you. In my experience, with my grinder, the cutters on the L side tend to get ground off a bit shorter. So I do all the L side cutters first, then the right side - because I can always adjust the stop to take off a little more off the R, but hard to put metal back on if they come up shorter!

I grind the L cutters first. Then I do a 'test' cutter on the R side; stop the grinder; hold a sharpened L cutter back-to-back with my test R cutter; and adjust the chain stop to match length. Then I eyeball the depth of grind, and adjust that, if needed (usually 1/4 to 1/2 a turn) to match. Your results may vary.

Philbert


----------



## redoakneck (Aug 25, 2015)

I have been try to find a compact florescent bulb to replace the dim dino bulb, doesn't look like they make one. Back to using a different light source.


----------



## lambs (Aug 27, 2015)

I have adjusted my grinder to get the cutters the same length but it almost doesn't matter. One side or the other is always damaged and needs to be ground away. Then I just sharpen the cutters on the other side and adjust depth gauges on both sides to the cutters.

I use the plastic template to measure cutter length but the Stihl depth gauge tool works well too.


----------



## Moparmyway (Aug 28, 2015)

redoakneck said:


> I have been try to find a compact florescent bulb to replace the dim dino bulb, doesn't look like they make one. Back to using a different light source.


I think LED would give you a better chance at getting something to work ........... dont think there is enough room for a CFL


----------



## Moparmyway (Aug 28, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *Initial Results/Impressions . . .*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So..........
the taller support post (by about 3/4") and longer stop (by about 1/2") are working to secure the chain better while grinding.

I will be making a support post and stop out of some scrap metal I have laying around, and just looking to confirm my rather crude math-e-matics that I gleaned from your pictures.

As usual Philbert, great work and super pictures !!!
Thank You !!


----------



## Philbert (Aug 28, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> So..........
> the taller support post (by about 3/4") and longer stop (by about 1/2") are working to secure the chain better while grinding.


Yeah; seems to push the cutters _down_ as well as _back_. Just make sure that you have clearance with the motor all the way down, and a _worn-to-the-limit_ wheel mounted.

This probably works with a long list of Oregon and clone grinders. If you make a bunch up, you will have lots of friends around the time of the next '_Xmas Giving_' thread!

I checked in with my dealer and am waiting on a price for the entire support post/spring/chain stop assembly. It appears to be Total/Tecomec part number _TMK 00200334 'Chain Hold Kit'. _I was waiting until I received one (assuming the price did not make me gag), and verified the dimensions, before suggesting this to others, but there is the number if anyone else is interested.

Philbert


----------



## lwhaples (Aug 28, 2015)

I have a Efco grinder and after reading this thread,I'd like to Thank Mr Philbert for starting it. Lots of good info being shared.Will be trying some of the tips to get a better cutting chain.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 28, 2015)

lwhaples said:


> I have a Efco grinder . . .


Is it basically the same, aside from cosmetic differences?

Thanks. 

Philbert


----------



## Nine6Teen (Aug 30, 2015)

Philbert said:


> These are '_semi-precision_' grinders, so there is some error in them. Depending on the model you have/use,



I got the Oregon 511AX, which I was thought was the top of the line. paid over $300 ... but sounds like from reading through many of the above posts, that's it's an average machine, that could use some improvements, especially with the vise.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 30, 2015)

Nine6Teen said:


> I got the Oregon 511AX, which I was thought was the top of the line.


Define "top of the line". STIHL grinders go for $500 -$600? Some Silveys were over $1,000. And the Franzen goes for more than I paid for any car.

The Italian made, Oregon 511 types grinders are the standard/reference I use for all saw chain grinders. Probably the most popular style world-wide, if you count all the variations, clones, private labels, etc. Used by individuals and shops. Does not mean that it can't be improved.

Some guys on this site tear apart a $1,600 chain saw as soon as they get it to make 'improvements'.

You got a pretty good grinder at a pretty good price that probably works pretty good out-of-the-box. This thread is about sharing tips and tweaks to get the most out of it, if you want a little bit more.

Philbert


----------



## Moparmyway (Aug 31, 2015)

Philbert said:


> I checked in with my dealer and am waiting on a price for the entire support post/spring/chain stop assembly. It appears to be Total/Tecomec part number _TMK 00200334 'Chain Hold Kit'. _I was waiting until I received one (assuming the price did not make me gag), and verified the dimensions, before suggesting this to others, but there is the number if anyone else is interested.
> 
> Philbert



Chances are that your parts will arrive well before I make up anything.
I am curious about pricing as well !!
Will be watching for your update when you get them ............... thanks Philbert !


----------



## Philbert (Sep 1, 2015)

Philbert said:


> I checked in with my dealer and am waiting on a price for the entire support post/spring/chain stop assembly. It appears to be Total/Tecomec part number _TMK 00200334 'Chain Hold Kit'._





Moparmyway said:


> I am curious about pricing as well !! Will be watching for your update when you get them ...............



Quoted $70 from Total (US distributor for Tecomec)! Would be a simple swap, but . . . .

I have a list of other projects to complete first, and this would be a nice improvement, but is not 'mission critical'. I think that with a piece of 1-inch square tubing from the hardware store I can Dremel/hacksaw/etc. out the pieces without welding. Heck, I can probably made them out of some hardwood scraps. I promise to post photos if I do either/or!

Philbert


----------



## Moparmyway (Sep 2, 2015)

$70 is expensive !


----------



## redoakneck (Sep 2, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> $70 is expensive !


I agree, was hoping for 20 bucks


----------



## Philbert (Oct 20, 2015)

Linked from another thread. Chain stop modification by Grande Dog at Left Coast Supplies:



http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/chain-grinders.287458/page-6 (Post #108 and 116)

Philbert


----------



## redoakneck (Oct 20, 2015)




----------



## srcarr52 (Oct 20, 2015)

That's a silvey 300/500 chain holder setup adapted to some other grinder.


----------



## Skeans (Oct 21, 2015)

srcarr52 said:


> That's a silvey 300/500 chain holder setup adapted to some other grinder.


That's not off a silvey 500 they have an arc.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## srcarr52 (Oct 21, 2015)

Skeans said:


> That's not off a silvey 500 they have an arc.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



The chain stops are.


----------



## Moparmyway (Oct 24, 2015)

Added a CBN wheel and some air cooling.
I have a valve for bringing in just the right amount of air ........ doesnt need too much air to be ice cold


----------



## Philbert (Dec 13, 2015)

*A Couple of Helpful Videos
*
Lots of sharpening videos on YouTube. I thought that these 2 were pretty good. They describe the newer Oregon 520-120 chain grinder (replaces the 511AX grinder, which replaced the 511A), but pretty much apply to any grinder of this type, aside from a few feature differences between models. Both videos by Oregon.

 (Official)
*Set up

 (Official)
*Use


Philbert


----------



## c5rulz (Dec 23, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> $70 is expensive !





redoakneck said:


> I agree, was hoping for 20 bucks



What is the old saying about making a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Spending money to make a good grinder is money well spent in my book.


----------



## Moparmyway (Dec 23, 2015)

c5rulz said:


> Spending money to make a good grinder is money well spent in my book.


Except that the 511 is already a good grinder, without having to spend $70 for an "upgrade" that wont make it grind better.
I still have my stock arm / chain stop on mine and it works fantastically.

I put that $70 towards a CBN wheel, and its way better than the pink wheels that I was using; now thats money well spent in my book


----------



## rd35 (Dec 23, 2015)

Hey Mopar, does that CBN wheel negate the need for a reversible motor?


----------



## Moparmyway (Dec 23, 2015)

rd35 said:


> Hey Mopar, does that CBN wheel negate the need for a reversible motor?


There really isnt any "need" to reverse the motor, but IMHO, it does help to be able to reverse the motor no matter what wheel is on the grinder


----------



## Philbert (Dec 23, 2015)

My understanding is that the Maxx grinder lets you grind both sides the same, without reversing motor direction. It has a larger grinder head tilt range, and users reverse the chain direction to grind cutters on the other side. 

Anybody with experience to confirm or correct this?

Philbert


----------



## c5rulz (Dec 23, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> Except that the 511 is already a good grinder, without having to spend $70 for an "upgrade" that wont make it grind better.
> I still have my stock arm / chain stop on mine and it works fantastically.
> 
> I put that $70 towards a CBN wheel, and its way better than the pink wheels that I was using; now thats money well spent in my book




Saws and grinders are a hobby of mine and firewood sales pay for all of it. $70 is pretty inconsequential compared to other hobbies.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 13, 2016)

Imported from another thread: grinders mounted on cleats that drop into a slot between the bench and a mounted rub rail.


chipper1 said:


> . . . managed to get the new Super Jolly mounted to a 2x4 so I can put it on the bench or take it off in a matter of seconds. Makes it so I can work on the saws on the same bench as I grind on, just throw the grinders underneath the bench.View attachment 491661
> View attachment 491662
> View attachment 491663










chipper1 said:


> I liked this idea for now because I don't need to build another bench, just attached the "rub rail" like on a trailer to the front of the bench.
> It overhangs nicely and will allow me to move them around until I get a setup that works for me.
> As it is it seems to be working well with the raker grinder against the wall and the 3/8" next to it. The .325 is the one I use the least and also right next to the vice so it gets taken off the bench most often for saw work or hand filing in the vice.



Philbert


----------



## rd35 (Mar 14, 2016)

Moparmyway said:


> There really isnt any "need" to reverse the motor, but IMHO, it does help to be able to reverse the motor no matter what wheel is on the grinder


Thanks Mopar, that's what I was thinking too! If the CBN wheel will grind away the chrome plating better than the pink wheels, I might not need to mod my grinder so it can be reversed. But, then again, a reversible grinder will be pretty cool! I already bought the switch, so I guess I will move ahead with the mod.



Philbert said:


> My understanding is that the Maxx grinder lets you grind both sides the same, without reversing motor direction. It has a larger grinder head tilt range, and users reverse the chain direction to grind cutters on the other side.
> Anybody with experience to confirm or correct this?
> Philbert


Yes, although I don't own a Maxx, I did research them and they work just as you described. If you look close at the chain rails they tilt downward on the ends so the grinder motor will clear the chain when tilted left. IMHO its a pretty neat design indeed! Just a little too pricey for my wallet or I would own one! Instead, I will make my NT unit reversible and get me a good face shield!


----------



## Mikeb (Dec 28, 2016)

I watched this video and it works on my 511AX and 520-120.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 28, 2016)

The tiny burr comes off as soon as the chain gets used. I suppose if trying to get "the max" out of a chain like for racing that's no beuno though.

I like that style vice, we have the other style on the 3 grinders. It wears out quickly. One grinder it's so worn it barely clamps.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 28, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> . . . we have the other style on the 3 grinders. It wears out quickly. One grinder it's so worn it barely clamps.


The vise on the 511A, 511AX, 520, or another branded grinder, etc.?

A number of different vise designs have been used. On the 511A, I developed a wear spot in one clamping plate from the cam, but the plate was drilled so that it could be shifted over to a new spot. If you count all of the positioning locations of both vise plates, you have multiple wear locations until the plates have to be replaced. Similar vises used on 510, and other grinders.

On the 511AX there were a few different wear issues:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511ax-vise.228345/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-511ax-vise-update.276361/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511ax-repair-mod-and-similar-units.263497/

The current 520 uses a cam clamp that applies pressure from both sides.
https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/accessories/BenchGrinder_520-120.htm

Philbert


----------



## Wood Doctor (Dec 28, 2016)

Philbert said, "If you count all of the positioning locations of both vise plates, you have multiple wear locations until the plates have to be replaced."
---------------------------
Amen to that. I'm on my second location after sharpening over a thousand chains. One common thing guys forget to do is clean the area where the cam strikes the vise plate. In time, it fails to hold the handle because it's simply dirty and/or greased up.


----------



## Philbert (Nov 27, 2017)

(BUMP)

So, I bought a set of the CBN wheels with some 'birthday money', after reading all of the positive comments on these sites, but I am not all that impressed. Less dust is generated, but the finish does not seem any better, and I can still 'burn' cutters if not careful. My opinion might change, but right now I prefer a well dressed AO ('pink', vitrified, Aluminum Oxide) wheel for general sharpening, assuming that I am starting with a decent quality wheel (Oregon, Tecomec, Total, MoleMab, etc.), versus a set that cost me 80% of what my Oregon grinder did (!!!). 

I also still like the resinoid wheels for hogging off material on really rocked chains (even though they smell funny).

Also sharing (repeating?) a few comments passed on to a member who recently purchased a similar grinder - these apply to all:

1. Yes, these are '_semi-precision_' machines, but you learn to 'work with the slop' and apply a little 'English' now and then to get the desired results.

2. I encourage people to take some scrap chains and 'play' with them: 
- see how much they can hog off with a single pass; 
- intentionally burn a cutter, than back off to see how light they have to touch it to not burn one; 
- grind through a burnt cutter to make a fileable tooth again; 
- try to make a mirror smooth finish on a tooth; 
- play with the angles on both scales to see what kinds of shapes you can make, even if you don't want to cut with those profiles; 
- try to match existing chain angles, then work backwards to 'copy' those angle settings; etc.

Then practice, experiment, and build up skill, knowledge, and muscle memory - pretty soon you can listen to the radio at the same time!

Philbert


----------



## Majorpayne (Nov 27, 2017)

Philbert said:


> (BUMP)
> 
> So, I bought a set of the CBN wheels with some 'birthday money', after reading all of the positive comments on these sites, but I am not all that impressed. Less dust is generated, but the finish does not seem any better, and I can still 'burn' cutters if not careful. My opinion might change, but right now I prefer a well dressed AO ('pink', vitrified, Aluminum Oxide) wheel for general sharpening, assuming that I am starting with a decent quality wheel (Oregon, Tecomec, Total, MoleMab, etc.), versus a set that cost me 80% of what my Oregon grinder did (!!!).
> 
> ...


What brand cbn did you buy? I started with Forester and have Diamond Wheel now which I like better because they are lighter and run smoother. I like cbn much better myself.


----------



## Junkfxr (Nov 27, 2017)

Philbert said:


> (BUMP)
> 
> So, I bought a set of the CBN wheels with some 'birthday money', after reading all of the positive comments on these sites, but I am not all that impressed. Less dust is generated, but the finish does not seem any better, and I can still 'burn' cutters if not careful. My opinion might change, but right now I prefer a well dressed AO ('pink', vitrified, Aluminum Oxide) wheel for general sharpening, assuming that I am starting with a decent quality wheel (Oregon, Tecomec, Total, MoleMab, etc.), versus a set that cost me 80% of what my Oregon grinder did (!!!).
> 
> ...


I bought CBN wheels for mine not long after I got it quite a few years ago and have never looked back. I hope that I never have to use a "pink" wheel again. That's just my opinion and opinions are like armpits. It would be a sad world if everybody thought alike.


----------



## Philbert (Nov 27, 2017)

Majorpayne said:


> What brand cbn did you buy? I started with Forester and have Diamond Wheel now which I like better because they are lighter and run smoother. I like cbn much better myself.











Philbert


----------



## Majorpayne (Nov 27, 2017)

Philbert said:


> View attachment 615204
> 
> View attachment 615205
> 
> ...


What angles are you using? My results look better but I am not going out there to take pics.


----------



## Philbert (Nov 27, 2017)

Majorpayne said:


> What angles are you using? My results look better but I am not going out there to take pics.


Not sure in that photo - 30°/55°/0° is my 'default'.

Couple of things: 
1. I am often re-shaping / evening out other people's chains, which may be damaged, and which may be different than 'touch up sharpening'.

2. My opinion may change with more use. I will keep playing with these wheels and comparing them side-by-side. but I was 'expecting' more.

Philbert


----------



## Majorpayne (Nov 27, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Not sure in that photo - 30°/55°/0° is my 'default'.
> 
> Couple of things:
> 1. I am often re-shaping / evening out other people's chains, which may be damaged, and which may be different than 'touch up sharpening'.
> ...


You surely will like them better. No way would I go back to pink wheels.


----------



## Skeans (Nov 27, 2017)

Still some of the best wheels I've used so far not so soft you can't take a decent amount of material but soft enough the finish is clean. The CBN aren't made for the larger grinders but I'm not seeing the big difference for the extra price.






Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Philbert (Nov 27, 2017)

Skeans said:


> Still some of the best wheels I've used so far not so soft you can't take a decent amount of material but soft enough the finish is clean.


Tecomec sells different wheels for the 5-3/4" grinders - some of which may be similar to those sold for the larger Silvey grinders. But it has been hard to get them in the US. I did get to try one of the 'brown' wheels (photo above), which was not too different from the 'pink' wheels (all artificially colored to distinguish grits, etc.).


You can get a CBN wheel made for the larger grinders (couple of threads on that), but hard to get a good corner for square ground chains, and you can't change the angles by dressing the wheel.

Philbert


----------



## Skeans (Nov 27, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Tecomec sells different wheels for the 5-3/4" grinders - some of which may be similar to those sold for the larger Silvey grinders. But it has been hard to get them in the US. I did get to try one of the 'brown' wheels (photo above), which was not too different from the 'pink' wheels (all artificially colored to distinguish grits, etc.).
> View attachment 615221
> 
> You can get a CBN wheel made for the larger grinders (couple of threads on that), but hard to get a good corner for square ground chains, and you can't change the angles by dressing the wheel.
> ...


All Silvey stuff runs the 8" wheel 1" arbor and at 150 a wheel shipped I can have a few different wheels with different angles for the type of wood I'm cutting that day. The wheel that is 100 grit vitrified do you have a bushing for the arbor? If so I have a few worn down wheels I could send out your way if you're interested.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Philbert (Nov 27, 2017)

That would be interesting to try. I will see if I can find a bushing. 

Philbert


----------



## Stihl 041S (Nov 28, 2017)

Philbert said:


> That would be interesting to try. I will see if I can find a bushing.
> 
> Philbert


Send dimensions and an address and I’ll get one in the mail.....

Let me know ID radius/champher allowed. 
Should be a little thinner than the wheel.


----------



## MontanaResident (Nov 28, 2017)

The pink wheels work fine, are very affordable and last a long time. For perfectionist that need to explore every possible solution and with money to burn, CBN wheels are the answer, to a question not asked.


----------



## chipper1 (Nov 28, 2017)

MontanaResident said:


> The pink wheels work fine, are very affordable and last a long time. For perfectionist that need to explore every possible solution and with money to burn, CBN wheels are the answer, to a question not asked.


Maybe not asked by many, but you are in a place with a large number of enthusiasts as well as a large number of guys who cut for a living also people who sharpen for others(some for a living), and the question has been asked by folks here. As far as for a guy cutting a few cords a yr in clean wood out of the back lot to heat his home, learn to file with a cheap guide and buy a few chains, then when they get all out if sorts and won't cut straight bring them to one of us to get them straightened out. You can also buy semi chisel chains and spend even less time/money on sharpening, it just may take a little more time in the cut depending on the situation .


----------



## Majorpayne (Nov 28, 2017)

MontanaResident said:


> The pink wheels work fine, are very affordable and last a long time. For perfectionist that need to explore every possible solution and with money to burn, CBN wheels are the answer, to a question not asked.


A file works fine too. How many chains do you sharpen?

Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk


----------



## MontanaResident (Nov 28, 2017)

Majorpayne said:


> A file works fine too. How many chains do you sharpen?
> 
> Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk



Are you asking how many or how often, and what condition are the chains?


----------



## old guy (Nov 28, 2017)

I never stay on one cutter as long as he did in the video, just one quick touch then move on to the next one, if it needs more I go around again, this avoids hardening the cutters and keeps them all the same length.


----------



## Majorpayne (Nov 28, 2017)

MontanaResident said:


> Are you asking how many or how often, and what condition are the chains?


Do you sharpen for other people or just your own?


----------



## MontanaResident (Nov 28, 2017)

Others even more then my own. And some are in awful condition, abused and barely cut. I've had to pass abused chains thru the grinder 10 times or more. I'm not doing that anymore. For now on, a chain in such condition I will refuse to restore.



Majorpayne said:


> Do you sharpen for other people or just your own?


----------



## Majorpayne (Nov 28, 2017)

MontanaResident said:


> Others even more then my own. And some are in awful condition, abused and barely cut. I've had to pass abused chains thru the grinder 10 times or more. I'm not doing that anymore. For now on, a chain in such condition I will refuse to restore.


You don't have to do that with cbn wheels.


----------



## MontanaResident (Nov 28, 2017)

Do what?



Majorpayne said:


> You don't have to do that with cbn wheels.


----------



## Majorpayne (Nov 28, 2017)

MontanaResident said:


> Do what?


Make 10 passes.

Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk


----------



## Philbert (Nov 28, 2017)

Stihl 041S said:


> Send dimensions and an address and I’ll get one in the mail.....
> Let me know ID radius/champher allowed. Should be a little thinner than the wheel.



That is very generous of you - sending PM with address, etc.

I am not a machinist, and may be a bit clumsy with my dial caliper, but I checked a bunch of wheels (CBN, vitrified, and resinoid) and a few grinders, and this is what I got (maybe some other guys can verify?)

5-3/4 inch Oregon / Tecomec grinder wheels: *0.872" - 0.873" ID* (7/8" nominal, * one was 0.878)

Oregon / Tecomec grinder shafts: *0.8705" OD
*
3/16 inch (nominal) wheel *thickness*: *0.187" - 0.202"*, plus thickness of 2 paper wheel blotters, Note that wheel flanges on grinders are also bell-shaped, so bushing does not have to fit flush with wheel. (FYI - CBN plate was 0.167, but bushing would not be used with this wheel)

8 inch Silvey grinder wheels: *1.005" - 1.013" ID* (1" nominal, *surprised to see this much variance!)

Silvery RazurSharp II grinder shaft: *1.00" OD*

So, I am guessing that a bushing with the following would fit?
*0.872" ID
1.00" OD
0.200" width / thickness*

Philbert


----------



## Stihl 041S (Nov 28, 2017)

I’ll make a couple, tighter and looser, Incase something isnt round.

Your dimensions all make sense.


----------



## Vtrombly (Dec 6, 2017)

If we really want to get fussy maybe repeat the wheel measurements with a micrometer. Calipers are ok for rough measurements but often are not good to within .005 they are decent for checking overall lengths such as cutter lengths. For best accuracy for thickness a micrometer verified with master gauge blocks would get you a very accurate measurement.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 6, 2017)

I could do the grinder shaft OD with a micrometer, but don't know how to measure the ID of the grinder wheels with one. 

Philbert


----------



## old guy (Dec 6, 2017)

I have A couple of different sets of I D mics but is all this necessary, you can't hold that close when you pull the lever.
I did buy another 511a today.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 6, 2017)

Philbert said:


> The vise on the 511A, 511AX, 520, or another branded grinder, etc.?
> 
> A number of different vise designs have been used. On the 511A, I developed a wear spot in one clamping plate from the cam, but the plate was drilled so that it could be shifted over to a new spot. If you count all of the positioning locations of both vise plates, you have multiple wear locations until the plates have to be replaced. Similar vises used on 510, and other grinders.
> 
> ...



The cam wears out. Plate is still fine.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 6, 2017)

old guy said:


> I did buy another 511a today.


Building a fleet?

Philbert


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 7, 2017)

old guy said:


> I have A couple of different sets of I D mics but is all this necessary, you can't hold that close when you pull the lever.
> I did buy another 511a today.


Nice to have a grinder for each size isn’t it. Lol


----------



## chipper1 (Dec 7, 2017)

Stihl 041S said:


> Nice to have a grinder for each size isn’t it. Lol


And one for the rakers .


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 7, 2017)

chipper1 said:


> And one for the rakers .


Lookin for a Silvey for that.......me and everyone else. Lol


----------



## chipper1 (Dec 7, 2017)

Stihl 041S said:


> Lookin for a Silvey for that.......me and everyone else. Lol


You didn't find one yet.
I need to borrow one and just make a bunch of them.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 7, 2017)

chipper1 said:


> You didn't find one yet.
> I need to borrow one and just make a bunch of them.


I may make one out of an angle grinder. A tight fit and good stops......I’ve made specialty saws out of them before.......thanks for the push. I just don’t build things sometime. I’ve built lots of things from HT ovens to tensile testers. Dam.....


----------



## chipper1 (Dec 7, 2017)

Stihl 041S said:


> I may make one out of an angle grinder. A tight fit and good stops......I’ve made specialty saws out of them before.......thanks for the push. I just don’t build things sometime. I’ve built lots of things from HT ovens to tensile testers. Dam.....


Seems to me it would be easy enough, can't imagine someone hasn't done it yet.
A good lower speed Dremel such device would be light weight enough. The other thing I've thought about is using a stop beside the we on one of these grinders that would be adjustable. You would still have to manually move the chain just as when you are sharpening, and you could adjust how much you want to take off. 
Is it really hard to do, if I had a nice shop I think I would have done it already .


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 7, 2017)

chipper1 said:


> Seems to me it would be easy enough, can't imagine someone hasn't done it yet.
> A good lower speed Dremel such device would be light weight enough. The other thing I've thought about is using a stop beside the we on one of these grinders that would be adjustable. You would still have to manually move the chain just as when you are sharpening, and you could adjust how much you want to take off.
> Is it really hard to do, if I had a nice shop I think I would have done it already .


When I did the saw it was to cut subflooring to help my brother. Used a carbide tipped blade ad ground them to neutral and it ate flooring nails. Set it just above the joist. Cut almost to the wall. 
With a grinder it could be a wider for strength. Adjustable speed and set the speed with a clip and have a switch for on/off. Slow so it doesn’t burn.....a fine pitch for adjustment. 
PM an email or phone number and in a day or so I’ll send a sketch and you can post it and let folks tear it apart for faults. 
Do that a couple of times and then build one. 
We’ve been real busy at work. I still owe Philbert his shim. I’ve been doing big stuff but there is some smaller stuff coming up tomorrow so I’ll get it done.


----------



## Skeans (Dec 7, 2017)

Stihl 041S said:


> Lookin for a Silvey for that.......me and everyone else. Lol


The Silvey one takes a while to setup in the time it takes to setup I can have an Oregon set and burnt half way through a 115 driver semi skip. We have an Oregon all it does it rakers and honestly about all it's good for since it'll do 3/8, 404 or 3/4 all with the same unit. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 7, 2017)

Skeans said:


> The Silvey one takes a while to setup in the time it takes to setup I can have an Oregon set and burnt half way through a 115 driver semi skip. We have an Oregon all it does it rakers and honestly about all it's good for since it'll do 3/8, 404 or 3/4 all with the same unit.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Just a regular Oregon. I’d love it.


----------



## Vtrombly (Dec 7, 2017)

Philbert said:


> I could do the grinder shaft OD with a micrometer, but don't know how to measure the ID of the grinder wheels with one.
> 
> Philbert


The id of the wheel requires a telescoping gauge you lock it a little oversize pull it into the hole and then measure the telescoping gauge with the micrometer.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 7, 2017)

Or intermic, mic bridge, calipeters. Lol


----------



## Vtrombly (Dec 7, 2017)

Stihl 041S said:


> Or intermic, mic bridge, calipeters. Lol


Micrometer bridge is known as a telescoping gauge which is what it would be called when you order it from production tool. A caliper will not accuracy measure the id good enough to build a bushing accurately. You would have to make sure you are just in the right spot and will only be withen .005 which is not good enough when you're talking about making a bushing to take out the slop of the wheel.


----------



## chipper1 (Dec 7, 2017)

Stihl 041S said:


> When I did the saw it was to cut subflooring to help my brother. Used a carbide tipped blade ad ground them to neutral and it ate flooring nails. Set it just above the joist. Cut almost to the wall.
> With a grinder it could be a wider for strength. Adjustable speed and set the speed with a clip and have a switch for on/off. Slow so it doesn’t burn.....a fine pitch for adjustment.
> PM an email or phone number and in a day or so I’ll send a sketch and you can post it and let folks tear it apart for faults.
> Do that a couple of times and then build one.
> We’ve been real busy at work. I still owe Philbert his shim. I’ve been doing big stuff but there is some smaller stuff coming up tomorrow so I’ll get it done.


I can look and offer suggestions, but without a shop I can do little .


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 7, 2017)

Vtrombly said:


> Micrometer bridge is known as a telescoping gauge which is what it would be called when you order it from production tool. A caliper will not accuracy measure the id good enough to build a bushing accurately. You would have to make sure you are just in the right spot and will only be withen .005 which is not good enough when you're talking about making a bushing to take out the slop of the wheel.



I said Bridge Mic......not telescoping Gauge
There are also indicating calipers......to.tenths..
If you can't measure to .002 with dial calipers when half drunk. Something wrong with your calipers. 
We measure to ..002 with vernier all day long. With those and Pi tapes we got rid of our 6' mic set. 

PAX


----------



## Philbert (Dec 7, 2017)

Getting off topic a bit. I would appreciate if we can keep this thread on the 511A type grinders. 

Thanks!

Philbert


----------



## old guy (Jan 22, 2018)

Philbert said:


> Building a fleet?
> 
> Philbert


Whoops! another one followed me home today, the green clone one with the 10* tilt, used once, got it fer half price.
This will likely my DEPTH GAUGE grinder.


----------



## Philbert (Jan 22, 2018)

old guy said:


> Whoops! another one followed me home today . . .


You are going to be one sharp guy!

Philbert


----------



## old guy (Jan 23, 2018)

Dang guy said it was used once, he musta used it for a paperweight cuz it ain't ever been bolted down, no sign of use on the wheels, all incidentals in the bag.


----------



## ken morgan (Jan 26, 2018)

Philbert, got any links for the forum to mods or improvements for the techomecs ? I wanted a Oregon but being poor I ended up ordering a techomec from flea bay. the photo looked like the 511 with the cam style chain holder.


----------



## Philbert (Jan 26, 2018)

ken morgan said:


> Philbert, got any links for the forum to mods or improvements for the techomecs ?


Should be identical in most cases, with minor variations. Most of the comments in this thread should also apply to the 'clone' grinders. 

Philbert


----------



## tdiguy (Jan 29, 2018)

Just touched up a 94 dl loop of .404 micro chisel, decided to not do the 10 degree vise tilt on my 511a. Did a very nice job, barely took anything off, top plate was even, not like i was at 32 or 28 degrees, changing from left to right cutters required next to no adjustment. Now to see if it cuts...


----------



## Philbert (Sep 16, 2018)

*Grinder Arbors*

With some smaller grinders, I have had problems with wheels that did not fit: 'English / inch' measurements did not line up exactly with 'metric-almost-equivalents'. In other words, 7/8" did not equal 7/8".

Measured the arbor O.D. on a number of _what-should-be-identical_, 511A type grinders.




Surprise!

1) Arbors not all the same (see measurements* below).
2) Most arbors were not perfectly round!
* I am not a machinist, and only had a a HF digital caliper, but I made several measurements of each, so they should be close, if not exact.

Oregon 511A_______ 0.868 - 0.8695"
Speed Sharp Star____0.8695- 0.870"
Tecomec Super Jolly_ 0.8715 - 0.872"
Oregon 520-120____ 0.871 0.8735"

This is not an issue if you are not having problems with your grinder and wheels. I was trying to have a bushing made to let me mount wheels with larger I.D. holes. Six thouandths variation seems like a lot to me; might be a little less if I knock down a few high spots with some emery cloth and a stick.?

Philbert


----------



## Wood Doctor (Sep 16, 2018)

I have occasionally run into grinding wheels with holes a hair too small for my 511A. Usually, I can just clamp the wheel in a Woodworkeer's vise, then take a 1/4' round file and carefully enlarge the hole until it fits the arbor snugly. Only a few "swing arounds" are needed. Rather amazing, Philbert, that there was that much difference between the four brands for what is supposed to be a standard diameter.


----------



## Philbert (Sep 16, 2018)

Wood Doctor said:


> Rather amazing, Philbert, that there was that much difference between the four brands for what is supposed to be a standard diameter.


Yeah; if some had been different brands, or 'clones', I would have been less surprised. But all should have been made to Tecomec tolerances, even if manufactured several years apart.

Philbert


----------



## Skeans (Sep 16, 2018)

Philbert said:


> Yeah; if some had been different brands, or 'clones', I would have been less surprised. But all should have been made to Tecomec tolerances, even if manufactured several years apart.
> 
> Philbert



Is the bushing heat treated?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Philbert (Sep 16, 2018)

Skeans said:


> Is the bushing heat treated?


 I don't think that any of these arbors are heat treated.

I don't think that the bushing I have is either. 

Philbert


----------



## HarleyT (Sep 16, 2018)

Come on...

All arbors are all the same....

And all are "perfect" in their own way!!!


----------



## HarleyT (Sep 16, 2018)

They all get a "participation trophy"!!!


----------



## ken morgan (Sep 16, 2018)

HarleyT said:


> They all get a "participation trophy"!!!



Ha ha ha ha ha!


----------



## Philbert (Sep 16, 2018)

HarleyT said:


> All arbors are all the same....And all are "perfect" in their own way!!!


Suddenly, you are an 'arbor'ist?


----------



## Philbert (Sep 16, 2018)

Skeans said:


> Is the bushing heat treated?


 Not sure if you were suggesting this, but you put an idea in my head: slice through the bushing so that it is a split ring, adaptable to slightly different arbor diameters. 

I will give you the credit for inspiring this . 

Philbert


----------



## Skeans (Sep 16, 2018)

Philbert said:


> Not sure if you were suggesting this, but you put an idea in my head: slice through the bushing so that it is a split ring, adaptable to slightly different arbor diameters.
> 
> I will give you the credit for inspiring this .
> 
> Philbert



Just was thinking the heat treating process could allow for the tolerance differences if they pre machine then heat treat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mountainlake (Sep 17, 2018)

I just some chains in to sharpen today, no wonder they wouldn't cut, no hook angle on the side plate maybe a 10 degree reverse angle and the rakers too high. Those chains didn't have a chance of cutting even if sharp without using huge force. Steve


----------



## mountainlake (Sep 17, 2018)

I just some chains in to sharpen today, no wonder they wouldn't cut, no hook angle on the side plate maybe a 10 degree reverse angle and the rakers too high. Those chains didn't have a chance of cutting even if sharp without using huge force. Steve


----------



## Philbert (Mar 19, 2020)

*Bump!*

Saw this in a video: interesting mounting option. This guy used the wall mount holes to bolt the grinder to a board, then clamps the board in a bench vise. This provides additional height (and maybe some height adjustment), versus just mounting a cleat to the bottom of the grinder. (happens to be a clone grinder, but same principle would work with a 511A).

Philbert


----------



## Jakers (Mar 20, 2020)

Philbert said:


> *Bump!*
> 
> Saw this in a video: interesting mounting option. This guy used the wall mount holes to bolt the grinder to a board, then clamps the board in a bench vise. This provides additional height (and maybe some height adjustment), versus just mounting a cleat to the bottom of the grinder. (happens to be a clone grinder, but same principle would work with a 511A).
> 
> ...


I did something similar with mine too. I lag bolted a 2x2 to the bottom mounting holes and clamp it in the bench vise


----------



## CR888 (Mar 20, 2020)

I wonder why he has multimeter leads/clips hooked up too the grinder? Any ideas...this is in the video Phil posted.


----------



## chipper1 (Mar 20, 2020)

CR888 said:


> I wonder why he has multimeter leads/clips hooked up too the grinder? Any ideas...this is in the video Phil posted.


I was wondering that too. Pretty sure I've seen that guys vids, I think he's in Europe and does a good bit of milling.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Mar 20, 2020)

And why is the grinder setup soCLEAN!!!!????


----------



## Philbert (Mar 20, 2020)

CR888 said:


> I wonder why he has multimeter leads/clips hooked up too the grinder? Any ideas...this is in the video Phil posted.


No idea. Just visible for a few seconds.
Someone posted that video somewhere (?) and I just scanned it quickly. The way he mounted the grinder was the most interesting part to me.
Due to the interest, I searched YouTube and found the original if folks want to view it (12:46 minutes); at least half is focused mostly on milling. He also discusses modifying a clone grinder and using a CBN wheel, but some things may be of interest.
.



Stihl 041S said:


> And why is the grinder setup soCLEAN!!!!????


Maybe he cleaned it for the video?
Maybe he is related to @heimannm ?

Philbert


----------



## CR888 (Mar 23, 2020)

Stihl 041S said:


> And why is the grinder setup soCLEAN!!!!????


I too had the exact same thought, brand new CBN wheel, brand new grinder without any evidence of actual use, its not exactly wisdom from experience here or 'look after grinding a few thousand chains'...I'll show you a few things I've learnt about these grinders. Its 'follow me on YouTube, I have a new grinder, $100 wheel & a GoPro'. Whether its filing vids or grinding vids, I've yet to view any really good ones that I can learn from. Most of the time in my head I'm just pointing out all the things they are flat out doing WRONG!


----------



## Wood Doctor (Mar 23, 2020)

Here's a couple of my Pics without the Photobucket screening that wrecks them on my earlier post:




I make one of these vise brackets for each grinder that I own.


----------



## Deleted member 150358 (Mar 23, 2020)

I like seeing how everyone mounts their grinders. Its not hard but plan on the supplied bolts being too short or counter sinking.


----------



## Philbert (Nov 6, 2020)

Keeping the Wrenches Together

This might fall into the _only-matters-to-me_ type stuff, but a while back I mentioned keeping the Allen / hex keys for these grinders together so that they don't get lost I have done this on a bunch of grinders now, mostly using scraps of whatever tubing I could find. Rubber stuff is nice, 'cause it stretches to hold both the 4MM and 5MM. But hardware stores usually have the clear, vinyl stuff. Tried heating the tubing for the larger key, wrapping the smaller key in tape, etc., and even hot-melt glue (which mostly pushed to the center of the tubing - see bottom photo). 



Finally found something that works good: the same sealant / adhesive I use for repairing chaps. Basically a '_Shoe-Goo_' type material that spreads nice, fills in the gaps, and holds pretty well (middle photo) to the metal wrench and the vinyl tube.




Philbert


----------



## chipper1 (Nov 7, 2020)

Philbert said:


> Keeping the Wrenches Together
> 
> This might fall into the _only-matters-to-me_ type stuff, but a while back I mentioned keeping the Allen / hex keys for these grinders together so that they don't get lost I have done this on a bunch of grinders now, mostly using scraps of whatever tubing I could find. Rubber stuff is nice, 'cause it stretches to hold both the 4MM and 5MM. But hardware stores usually have the clear, vinyl stuff. Tried heating the tubing for the larger key, wrapping the smaller key in tape, etc., and even hot-melt glue (which mostly pushed to the center of the tubing - see bottom photo).
> 
> ...


Cool idea.
A small piece of wire twisted on the hose around the smaller one would work well too.


----------



## Philbert (Nov 12, 2020)

*Northern Tool / Northern Hydraulic Grinder Reference*

At the start of this thread I mentioned the NT / NH grinder tip threads. It was one of the first, popular clone grinders, which copied the Oregon / Tecomec style at a fraction of the price (and quality). Since then, I have occasionally had trouble finding the 'BIG' thread on those grinders (even though I posted in it), so I am adding it here for reference. Interesting to note that Northern Tool has cycled through several different versions of these 'clone' grinders since we first started seeing them 14 years ago! Some of the same issues, and tips may still apply to the current offerings.






FYI - Northern Chainsaw Sharpener


On super sale. Look Here! Looks like it might be the Tecomec 136/Oregon 511A unit, in which case $100 is a freakin' steal.




www.arboristsite.com










Northern Hyd grinder, making it work (pics)


When I pick up a tool (or anything else) made in China I expect that I will need to do some finish work that really should have been done at the factory. The Northern chain grinder is no exception but was better than most of my other chinatool experiences and I believe it will do the job. In...




www.arboristsite.com





https://www.arboristsite.com/community/attachments/tuning_chinese_chainsaw_sharpener-pdf.566900/

Philbert


----------



## sean donato (Nov 12, 2020)

Just curious if anyone has tried to make the oregon auto sharpener wheels fit on the 511 grinders?


----------



## chipper1 (Nov 13, 2020)

sean donato said:


> Just curious if anyone has tried to make the oregon auto sharpener wheels fit on the 511 grinders?


Pretty sure they are a good bit larger, as long as the arbor size was the same( or an adapter was made), and they have abrasives all the way thru them I see no reason why you couldn't. Why would you want to when the correct wheels are readily available.


----------



## sean donato (Nov 13, 2020)

They are a ceramic wheel, that reportedly cuts much better then the pink stones, but costly less then half what the cbn wheels cost. I'm soon due for a new wheel on my grinder, so I figured I'd ask. The only difference is the arbor hole, I didnt know if someone had a hack to put them on or not.


----------



## chipper1 (Nov 13, 2020)

sean donato said:


> They are a ceramic wheel, that reportedly cuts much better then the pink stones, but costly less then half what the cbn wheels cost. I'm soon due for a new wheel on my grinder, so I figured I'd ask. The only difference is the arbor hole, I didnt know if someone had a hack to put them on or not.


I see. There are aluminum spacers I've seen for going to a different arbor size.
I like the green stones over the pink ones, I think they are like $15. Just ordered a CBN for my Tecomec super-jolly yesterday, 105 delivered.


----------



## Philbert (Nov 13, 2020)

sean donato said:


> They are a ceramic wheel, that reportedly cuts much better then the pink stones, but costly less then half what the cbn wheels cost. I'm soon due for a new wheel on my grinder, so I figured I'd ask. The only difference is the arbor hole, I didnt know if someone had a hack to put them on or not.


They sell ceramic wheels for the 8" Silvey square grinders. There are some guys who have tried to mount these on an Oregon style grinder, when worn down to 5-3/4", using a bushing for the 1" arbor hole.



Philbert


----------



## BradSt (Nov 13, 2020)

chipper1 said:


> I see. There are aluminum spacers I've seen for going to a different arbor size.
> I like the green stones over the pink ones, I think they are like $15. Just ordered a CBN for my Tecomec super-jolly yesterday, 105 delivered.


I just tried a green Tecomec wheel, and find it burns the cutters too easily, even when using a light touch. I don't have that issue with the Oregon pink wheels. I was hoping the green wheel would leave a smoother finish, and it does...but I've switched back. I only have Stihl brand chains, so I'm not sure if this factors in at all. I know they are reportedly harder. Any thoughts? I'd really like to try a CBN wheel, but have a hard time justifying the cost.


----------



## sean donato (Nov 13, 2020)

OR600-316 here's the part number for the wheel I was looking at, the problem is it has a 5/8" arbor. I didnt know if anyone had tried to make an adapter to run it. Thanks for the reply, I may try one of the silvey wheels out. I just dont grind enough chains to justify the cbn wheel. Just do mine when they are really messed up. And chains for a few friends and family. This last pink wheel has lasted me about 5 years, an I expect it will make it through till spring.


----------



## chipper1 (Nov 13, 2020)

sean donato said:


> OR600-316 here's the part number for the wheel I was looking at, the problem is it has a 5/8" arbor. I didnt know if anyone had tried to make an adapter to run it. Thanks for the reply, I may try one of the silvey wheels out. I just dont grind enough chains to justify the cbn wheel. Just do mine when they are really messed up. And chains for a few friends and family. This last pink wheel has lasted me about 5 years, an I expect it will make it through till spring.


I'd just go with the pink wheel if I was using the at that slow of a rate.


BradSt said:


> I just tried a green Tecomec wheel, and find it burns the cutters too easily, even when using a light touch. I don't have that issue with the Oregon pink wheels. I was hoping the green wheel would leave a smoother finish, and it does...but I've switched back. I only have Stihl brand chains, so I'm not sure if this factors in at all. I know they are reportedly harder. Any thoughts? I'd really like to try a CBN wheel, but have a hard time justifying the cost.


It's a give/take, if you're happy with the pink wheels then stick with them. The way I look at it is more long term since I can afford it(I realize that isn't the case for everyone as I've been there) and my time is more valuable currently, so for me the CBN is a good choice, and if I ever need the cash I'm sure I could sell it used and recoup at least a portion of my initial cost. I also like that I can grind more off without over heating the cutters, it saves a lot of time on extremely damaged chains, the other option is to just toss them and buy a new chain when your time is more valuable. If you have more time than money then the pink or green wheels work great and will last most people many yrs at a great overall cost savings vs paying for new chains or paying someone to grind them(especially since they typically trash chains many places).
For me the green wheel works great if I couldn't spend the cash on the CBN, I take multiple passes to avoid blueing cutters, and that has worked well. I have used the pinks as well and had no problems with them either, not sure what the compound is on the USG, it works well though.


----------



## Philbert (Nov 13, 2020)

I tried the CBN wheels. I like the pink wheels better. Matter of preference.

Philbert


----------



## Wood Doctor (Feb 24, 2021)

Here's my latest enhancement to my Oregon 511A -- new lighting. My original bulb burned out after several years and a couple of replacements. This time I decided to try an LED for more light. I finally found one at Menards for under $4, but it was a 1/4" too long. That meant drilling a 1" diameter hole in the clear plastic shield for the bulb to project out a tad. I removed the shield and then used a Forster bit. That worked. Here's the bulb specs and the final product, light off and light on:

You may notice a strip of electrical tape above the white letters to act as a shade. This light is really bright and uses less energy. What a difference! My ancient eyes really appreciate it. There may be other bulbs out there that will not be quite so long. You need 3" or less to avoid drilling the hole, but the T8 size is a must. Thanks for looking.


----------



## Philbert (Feb 24, 2021)

Wood Doctor said:


> Thanks for looking.


Thanks for sharing the details!

Philbert


----------



## Wood Doctor (Feb 24, 2021)

I might add that there are many Tecomec grinders out there that do not use a clear plastic shield but metal mesh instead. So, finding a shorter-length LED bulb is almost a must for them to replace an incandescent.


----------



## Philbert (Feb 24, 2021)

Wood Doctor said:


> I might add that there are many Tecomec grinders out there that do not use a clear plastic shield but metal mesh instead. So, finding a shorter-length LED bulb is almost a must for them to replace an incandescent.


Surprised that you found one that interchanged that closely. I have actually have never had to replace a bulb on a grinder; assumed that the base would be 'push-and-turn', like the 12V bulbs in my taillights. Or that some type of soldering would be required, as in this thread: https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/couple-grinder-questions.349488/

Philbert


----------



## SpaceBus (Jun 15, 2021)

Did anyone figure out how to get the other wheels from the Tecomec graph with the four different wheels? The white and light pink wheels look like they yield a finer finish, unless I totally misunderstood the graphic.


----------



## Wood Doctor (Jun 15, 2021)

Philbert said:


> Surprised that you found one that interchanged that closely. I have actually have never had to replace a bulb on a grinder; assumed that the base would be 'push-and-turn', like the 12V bulbs in my taillights. Or that some type of soldering would be required, as in this thread: https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/couple-grinder-questions.349488/
> 
> Philbert


It was a simple chandelier screw in base. The problem is the length of the bulb. So, I modified the grinder. Eyes that are younger than mine could find it to be too bright. But, nowadays everybody seems in love with LED bulbs. I probably turn the grinder on and off too frequently and that's what wore out the old bulb. Even my ancient drill press has two switches -- one for the motor and the other for the light.


----------



## Philbert (Jun 15, 2021)

SpaceBus said:


> Did anyone figure out how to get the other wheels from the Tecomec graph with the four different wheels? The white and light pink wheels look like they yield a finer finish, unless I totally misunderstood the graphic.


Have to order them in boxes of 20, or something like that. I've tried to get the importer to go for it a few times, but I don't want to become the distributor. The 'pink' wheels seem to work 'good enough', although a shiny cutter might be nice for a show saw or shelf queen!

Philbert


----------



## SpaceBus (Jun 16, 2021)

Philbert said:


> Have to order them in boxes of 20, or something like that. I've tried to get the importer to go for it a few times, but I don't want to become the distributor. The 'pink' wheels seem to work 'good enough', although a shiny cutter might be nice for a show saw or shelf queen!
> 
> Philbert


That shiny cutters work nice when milling, the cut quality is almost finish grade. Like everyone else in this thread I'm looking for more than "good enough"


----------



## heimannm (Aug 7, 2021)

Philbert asked me to post some comments here related to the modifications I made to my no-name 511 type clone. I have this one set up just for adjusting the depth gauges and wanted to be more consistent on the height/depth of the gauges. Since the mechanical stop is so close to the pivot and the spring is fairly strong I found it difficult to know just how hard to pull down when grinding and felt that I needed a better system. I thought about a mechanical stop further from the pivot but never tried to carry out that approach. Instead, I added some weights under the handle to pull it down to the stop. The following is from a post in my Vintage Chainsaw Museum thread.

"I don't really know how much variation there could be due to the flex after you hit the stop, but I am guessing it could be 0.010" or more depending on how hard you push on it. I wanted a way to keep the depth gauges more consistent and the weighted handle seemed like an easy way to do it. I had thought about trying to rig a more substantial stop further from the pivot to reduce the flex in the unit and I still might try something like that but for now, the weights are working as long as I don't accidentally drop it."




Mark


----------



## heimannm (Oct 15, 2021)

The spring in my no-name grinder (yellow looking unit pictured above) broke this week. Does anyone have a "no longer working" grinder laying around with a good spring?

Thanks in advance.

Mark


----------



## SimonHS (Oct 15, 2021)

This one might fit?









Arm Return Spring for Speed Sharp Compact/Jolly Compact Chain Grinders


Arm Return Spring for Speed Sharp Compact/Jolly Compact Chain Grinders Tecomec Part #K00200201 Part #21 on Parts List in Manual This 6 coil spring fits the Speed Sharp Compact Chain Grinder and Jolly Compact Chain grinders by Tecomec. This is a 6 coil spring that is similar to, but not...



www.sharpeningsupplies.com


----------



## Philbert (Oct 15, 2021)

ArcherPlus on eBay also sells Tecomec grinder parts. If you measure yours, they may be able to tell you if the OEM one will fit.

Philbert


----------



## heimannm (Oct 15, 2021)

Thanks Simon, I have one on order.

Mark


----------



## SimonHS (Oct 15, 2021)

heimannm said:


> Thanks Simon, I have one on order.



Great! I hope it fits OK though?


----------



## heimannm (Oct 15, 2021)

The description is accurate for the spring on my grinder.

Mark


----------



## Wood Doctor (Oct 15, 2021)

My emergency "spring" for my 511a:

It works so well that I almost did not replace the spring. Smooth operation supplied by Earth's gravity.


----------



## heimannm (Oct 15, 2021)

I would like to do something like that but space is limited and it is mounted on a table that rotates.










Mark


----------



## JD Guy (Jul 19, 2022)

Just a huge THANKS, to @Philbert and all of you for this thread. It will surely shorten my learning curve with my newly acquired 520-120!


----------



## link (Jul 20, 2022)

JD Guy said:


> Just a huge THANKS, to @Philbert and all of you for this thread. It will surely shorten my learning curve with my newly acquired 520-120!


The learning curve is all fun, make it a long one


----------



## The Shooters Apprentice (Nov 9, 2022)

Philbert said:


> *Reverse Grind 'Trick'*
> 
> Found this by A.S. Member mweba on YouTube.
> 
> ...



I just tried this one two different newer grinders and it did not work on either one of them.


----------



## The Shooters Apprentice (Nov 9, 2022)

Took me a fair bit, but I just finished reading this thread. Lots of good stuff.

I do have one question. I've been using a Oregon 410-120 for a couple years, and just swapped to a 511 copy.

Anyway. I've always used the 10 degree tilt on the bottom of the Oregon and now I'm wondering if I've been doing it wrong. I've always tilted the teeth in towards the center. Is that correct?


----------



## Mike Kunte (Nov 9, 2022)

This post by Cider helped me a lot. I was having the same issue with the cutters "rising" when setting the chain aginst the stop..... put on the higher pawl and boom! Problem gone! Thanks, Cider!

_Hi Colonel428. I initially found that the chain moved slightly as the vice closed, but when I adjusted the vice gap knob to the "0" position I found that removed any slop between the free and clamped position so that problem went away for me.

The pawl issue is a bit tricky to describe. *The 'standard' pawl sits low and therefore more horizontally. I found pulling the chain back against it, even gently, actually caused the tooth to rotate slightly around the tip of the pawl and up and away from the vice by a couple of mm. it doesn't totally make sense, but that's what was happening. The taller pawl contacts the chain more vertically and doesn't lift it at all, I can pull the chain back against it easily and there's no vertical movement.* I really don't understand the need for two versions of this mechanism, but I haven't tried it with anything smaller than 3/8" chain, perhaps the larger pawl is no good with smaller chains?

I'm still not really sure what the fore and aft vice position adjustment achieves, I'm tempted to engineer a way to lock this in as it is too easy to slip out of position when swivelling the vice. It seems to me that the secret to minimal cutter wastage is the precise repeatability of all angles.

It would also be great if there was a way to dial in equal left and right cutter lengths, but I can't see how to do this. Like many others I reckon there's about a quarter turn difference between the two?_


----------



## Philbert (Nov 9, 2022)

The Shooters Apprentice said:


> Took me a fair bit, but I just finished reading this thread. Lots of good stuff.
> 
> I do have one question. I've been using a Oregon 410-120 for a couple years, and just swapped to a 511 copy.
> 
> Anyway. I've always used the 10 degree tilt on the bottom of the Oregon and now I'm wondering if I've been doing it wrong. I've always tilted the teeth in towards the center. Is that correct?


Think about how a file would be positioned for the 10° ‘down angle’, then rotate the file/tooth combination so that the file is level. 

To me that means tilting the cutters ‘away’ from the center, but people use different terms, whether referring to the cutters or the base of the vise.

Philbert


----------



## heimannm (Nov 9, 2022)

Using the drill to spin the motor in the other direction will work but you have to be over the "start speed" for the motor to keep going in the opposite direction.

The other alternative is to add a reversing switch to the motor windings. While this is possible, the start wires are pretty fine and working inside the motor can be a bit close.




I did not create the illustration, but I can confirm that it works as I modified my Carlton and no-name grinders using this method. The reddish rocker switch is the reversing switch.







Mark


----------

