# Husqvarna 550xp vs echo cs490



## chevyforlife21 (Oct 19, 2015)

The husky cost 550 the echo cost $350. What is the echo I noticed it looks different is it actually a shindawia? I'm an occasional user I know probably bother are overkill for the half a cord I cut a year. My other saw is a ms170


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## rburg (Oct 19, 2015)

Echo and Shindaiwa merged. I don't know if this model is more E or S. The 490 is nice and light. The only one I have seen had a price of $416.


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## Big Block (Oct 19, 2015)

Is this ST bait ?


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## sunfish (Oct 19, 2015)

Forget these two & get a Poulan for 1/2 cord a year.


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## porsche965 (Oct 19, 2015)

I had the CS500. Very nice pro saw and the CS490 has an even better price. 5 year warranty too at a good Dealer. 

But....if you will keep this saw for a long time and maybe help out friends etc. with more cutting the 550xp is a real cutting machine. The CS490 will be slower but very dependable and sturdy.


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## Termite (Oct 19, 2015)

sunfish said:


> Forget these two & get a Poulan for 1/2 cord a year.


I disagree buy what will make you happy.
I  my wws-550.


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## chevyforlife21 (Oct 19, 2015)

I'm seeing two model of the 550xp one with flippy caps and one with normal caps. What's the difference are the flippy ones newer? My local one has the regular caps. Any other differences?


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## porsche965 (Oct 19, 2015)

Get the newer flippy cap model. Newer software.


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## chevyforlife21 (Oct 19, 2015)

porsche965 said:


> Get the newer flippy cap model. Newer software.



Really? It said 2015 on it it's about 100 bucks cheaper then other dealers including tax.


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## middleagemutant (Oct 19, 2015)

I have the Jonsered 2253 version of the Husky 550XP with a 16" Total bar and Baileys full chisel chain and it flat out rips very nimble and spunky check out Spike60 for a good price did not get mine from him but wish I did.


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## porsche965 (Oct 19, 2015)

chevyforlife21 said:


> Really? It said 2015 on it it's about 100 bucks cheaper then other dealers including tax.


 
2015 without Flippy Caps? I haven't seen that. As long as it is truely a 2015 you should be fine. By the Husky oil for the 4 year warranty. It does work with a good Dealer. Spike60 is a jam up guy, that's where I bought mine.


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## chevyforlife21 (Oct 19, 2015)

porsche965 said:


> 2015 without Flippy Caps? I haven't seen that. As long as it is truely a 2015 you should be fine. By the Husky oil for the 4 year warranty. It does work with a good Dealer. Spike60 is a jam up guy, that's where I bought mine.


What year did they stop? That scares me as this dealer has only been open a few years but it's way cheaper then the other dealers who want $650 with tax 


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## KenJax Tree (Oct 19, 2015)

They didn't stop...the new ones have flippy caps, mine is a 2013 and has flippy caps.


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## porsche965 (Oct 19, 2015)

My first one was one of the first Spike60 sold and was ported. Unbelievable saw. Standard caps. Not sure of the date... 

Second 550xp this spring was flippy caps, which I happen to like, and is still stock. Bought it with a second 562R. Great Auto Tune saws.


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## sunfish (Oct 19, 2015)

Termite said:


> I disagree buy what will make you happy.
> I  my wws-550.


Yes, I'd get the 550xp myself.


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## Ironworker (Oct 19, 2015)

For a 1/2 cord you probably don't need much, but if you don't mind spending, then by all means get the 550.


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## CoreyB (Oct 19, 2015)

For only a half cord a year I would go the most cost effective route. You will have more problems with proper long term storage and maintenance then anything else. Make sure you always drain al the gas and then start and run it dry.


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## chevyforlife21 (Oct 19, 2015)

The echo looks to be the same as the shindy 491s which makes me not want it. Just cause I love echo products for reliability I knew something didn't feel echoish 


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## chevyforlife21 (Oct 20, 2015)

Anybody get the current husky promotion of 3 cans of fuel hat and 4 year warranty? All my dealers are acting like it doesn't exist


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## chevyforlife21 (Oct 20, 2015)

25 dollar difference from new to old model 550xp 


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## GrassGuerilla (Oct 20, 2015)

chevyforlife21 said:


> The echo looks to be the same as the shindy 491s which makes me not want it. Just cause I love echo products for reliability I knew something didn't feel echoish
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That may be a first? Shinsaws are solid as they get. Getting a Shindaiwa at an Echo price and warranty is a win win. 

I'll say this, the Echo is a stone simple 2-stroke. No Strato, no auto-tune, no proprietary unobtainable BS whatsoever. If I needed an occasional use saw, that'd be on my short list of desirables. Simple is good. 

Think about it like this: for the tiny amount of cutting your talking about, the saw will mostly sit unused. Right? When you forget to drain it, and it gets gummed up. What will it cost? How much is a new carb for instance? I'd wager that echo will be much cheaper to "keep it in the race".


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## chevyforlife21 (Oct 22, 2015)

GrassGuerilla said:


> That may be a first? Shinsaws are solid as they get. Getting a Shindaiwa at an Echo price and warranty is a win win.
> 
> I'll say this, the Echo is a stone simple 2-stroke. No Strato, no auto-tune, no proprietary unobtainable BS whatsoever. If I needed an occasional use saw, that'd be on my short list of desirables. Simple is good.
> 
> Think about it like this: for the tiny amount of cutting your talking about, the saw will mostly sit unused. Right? When you forget to drain it, and it gets gummed up. What will it cost? How much is a new carb for instance? I'd wager that echo will be much cheaper to "keep it in the race".



The new echo is strato I believe


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## mountainlake (Oct 22, 2015)

chevyforlife21 said:


> The new echo is strato I believe




You believe wrong, the only strato saw Echo made was the CS550p, no love for the CS500p here down on power quite a bit from the pure Echo CS510, 520 or 530 saws, the CS500p is light. Steve


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## Chris J. (Oct 22, 2015)

chevyforlife21 said:


> The husky cost 550 the echo cost $350. What is the echo I noticed it looks different is it actually a shindawia? I'm an occasional user I know probably bother are overkill for the half a cord I cut a year. My other saw is a ms170
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



One-half a cord a year, and you already have a limbing saw. Track down one of the deals for a refurbished Poulan Pro PP5020AV (or the 4818 which has the same engine) for around $120.00.

Or get either saw you mentioned. The Echo should you serve you well, but the Husky is more of a pro saw.


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## fordf150 (Oct 22, 2015)

Cant believe it hasnt been mentioned but for the amount of cutting your going to do i think the 550 is a bit overkill. what about the 545? same saw but less power and a lower price tag. 

Just my opinion but for the amount your going to cut the 490 would be my choice from the 2 you are looking at. Simply because of the limited amount of use it will see I couldnt justify the extra money for a 545/550. 1/2 cord isnt even enough to dull out one chain and split that between 2 saws. 

490 appears to be a 500 cheapened up a bit but still has lots of pro features...roller catch, mag cases, rim drive drum. they are a very nice light weight saw at a great price. I believe they are a Shinny design. Have yet to make time to check part numbers and see just how many parts they did reuse on the new 490 from the 500P


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## WSE (Oct 22, 2015)

550xp is definitely the better saw but as mentioned it's way more saw than you need. I would actually encourage you to look at either a cs-400 or 450p. With a little tuning either would walk away from the 490 in performance. Based on customer review and my own experience I just don't have that much love for the Shindaiwa 50cc design. They certainly hit a home run on their 60cc saws but I wish Echo would have stuck with their own 530 for a 50cc saw. The 490 is certainly a solid, reliable saw for a great price, and I continue to sell quite a few. But it's performance leaves much to be desired.


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## WSE (Oct 22, 2015)

491s is identical


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## fordf150 (Oct 22, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Which Shindaiwa is the 490 most similar to?


490 = Echo 500P=Shinny 490??? i will think of it eventually


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## fordf150 (Oct 22, 2015)

WSE said:


> 491s is identical


Have you been into them and compared the 490 to the 500p? they look the same but i have not compared ipl's


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## mountainlake (Oct 22, 2015)

The 4000 4500 Echo is a older saw with nothing in common with the newer CS510 520 530 or the CS500p or 490. WSE is right I'd be getting a CS400 which is another home run for Echo, I'd much rather use a muff modded and tuned CS400 than the Shinny designed CS500p which s also muff modded. Cs400 saws come with me to the mill, the CS500p sits in the truck. Steve


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## rburg (Oct 22, 2015)

Are you talking Redmax instead of Shindaiwa?


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## ashy larry (Oct 22, 2015)

Lotta 500 hate here. I will add that i really like mine, and it seemed to really gain power after 10 or so tanks. Its my main firewood saw, cranks easy and handles well. Your mileage may vary but i would buy another Echo. But id also buy another Husky.


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## blsnelling (Oct 22, 2015)

rburg said:


> Are you talking Redmax instead of Shindaiwa?


Oh my, I've had a terrible brain cramp, lol. Pretend I was never here!!!


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## mountainlake (Oct 22, 2015)

ashy larry said:


> Lotta 500 hate here. I will add that i really like mine, and it seemed to really gain power after 10 or so tanks. Its my main firewood saw, cranks easy and handles well. Your mileage may vary but i would buy another Echo. But id also buy another Husky.



May there's hope for mine as I only have 5 tanks or so run through it. Steve


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## chevyforlife21 (Oct 22, 2015)

Well I'll tell you the cs400 I love I've had 3 of them always just get sold when I need money never had a single problem with any of the 20 probably echos I've owned they are pretty weak saws though had a ms251 easy start thing was a bit to heavy for me I love the ms250s hoping to buy a new one while they still around they seem to stop being made last year then came back for this 299 deal love how light they are the echos it's like a Toyota Corolla your probably not gonna break it but it's very boring 


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## ashy larry (Oct 22, 2015)

I. Will. Disagree.

Muffler mod and removing limiter tabs goes a long way on those. You cant beat the weight.


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## MillerModSaws (Oct 22, 2015)

I can't put my 2 cents in yet but I will. Lol. I received this from a customer. I see a lot of potential in this little light weight saw. Enough that I went and bought another one to do a build thread on when I get some time. Op I know you didn't ask about these but you may look into a 421 or 5105 dolmar as well. Good luck with whatever you choose.


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## ashy larry (Oct 22, 2015)

Miller i may have mine done by you pending a postive outcome. Rough price range?


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## MillerModSaws (Oct 22, 2015)

ashy larry said:


> Miller i may have mine done by you pending a postive outcome. Rough price range?


Pm me and we'll talk.


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## noshow74 (Oct 23, 2015)

MillerModSaws said:


> I can't put my 2 cents in yet but I will. Lol. I received this from a customer. I see a lot of potential in this little light weight saw. Enough that I went and bought another one to do a build thread on when I get some time. Op I know you didn't ask about these but you may look into a 421 or 5105 dolmar as well. Good luck with whatever you choose.


What model is it? I've been thinking about grabbing a 490.

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## MillerModSaws (Oct 23, 2015)

noshow74 said:


> What model is it? I've been thinking about grabbing a 490.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


Cs-500p. From what I've been told the 500 and 490 are the same saw. The handle bar and clutch bell is the only difference.


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## grack (Oct 23, 2015)

Haven't run a 550 but my 490 after muffler mod and limiter removal isn't to far behind my first gen stock stihl 261 quite a bit lighter too.


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## 7sleeper (Oct 23, 2015)

I see the Dolmar 421 as one of the ideal recomendations sofar for this amount of wood! Built like a pro saw, made for the homeowner. For me this ~40cc class is about the best a homeowner can get!

7


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## Edge & Engine (Oct 23, 2015)

Some misinformation in this thread needs to be cleared up, the current Echo CS-490 and CS-500P were based off the Shindaiwa 446s which came out pre-merger back around 2007. It was a 46cc that was like all Shindaiwa saws were, rock solid, lightweight and quality built, but not exactly a screamer. I owned a 446s that I ported myself, turned it into a downright impressive machine. A 50cc Shindaiwa version called a 452s was in the works but never got released in the US before the 2009 merge with Echo. At the time, Shindaiwa had a chainsaw model 490, which was an updated version of their 488 and had nothing in common with the 446s or the current Echo CS-500P/CS-490. There was a couple years gap before Echo reintroduced the series as the 50cc CS-500P in 2011 and now the reduced cost CS-490. With the recent re-introduction of Shindaiwa branded chainsaws, the Echo CS-490 can be found (colored red and branded for Shindaiwa) in the Shindaiwa lineup as a CS-491.
Regarding the CS-490 vs CS-500P, I haven't gone over the IPL's in detail but other than the obvious and previously mentioned differences (handle, stock bar/chain), they do share the same piston & cylinder. They come with a very restrictive (but very quiet) muffler, so considerable gains can be had with a simple muffler mod.


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## woodbutcher56 (Oct 25, 2015)

Grack
Whats your assessment of that 490 ? I'm looking real hard at one. I intend to use it for limbing and 12" and under bucking.I intend to run it with a 16" bar.
I was also considering a dolmar ps421 and echo cs 400 .I realize they're not the same cc but I'm tryinv to keep the weight down


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## woodbutcher56 (Oct 25, 2015)

Local dealer also told me I needed a Jonsered 2152$$$$ he then recomended an efco mt 4400 I've not seen anything about efco on this site .


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## Franny K (Oct 25, 2015)

Edge & Engine said:


> but never got released in the US before the 2009 merge with Echo.


I note you choose the word merger while if I recall correctly purchased or bought seems more common around here. Echo is really the name of the product in this area but does merger mean company a gets stock in company b? Where sell/bought means they get money and have to pay capital gains taxes if they made a profit? Of course there is a combination possibility and secrecy if they are not publicly traded.


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## grack (Oct 25, 2015)

I switched mine over to 3/8 18 inch bar it comes with .325 it had a 20 inch bar on it and it cut fine I cut mostly 14 inch and larger hardwood and just wanted my bar and pitch the same with my other saws it's very quiet stock and plugged up once I pulled the limiters and the tube in the muffler and cut the deflector back and retuned it really woke up I use this saw the most after my neighbor tried it he bought one need to weigh it but its light for a 50cc that I've used.


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## mountainlake (Oct 25, 2015)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Grack
> Whats your assessment of that 490 ? I'm looking real hard at one. I intend to use it for limbing and 12" and under bucking.I intend to run it with a 16" bar.
> I was also considering a dolmar ps421 and echo cs 400 .I realize they're not the same cc but I'm tryinv to keep the weight down



Owning both saw I'd get the CS400 muff modd and tune it, with the lopro chain it cuts real close to the CS500 I have and the CS400 is going to be the lightest, ready to cut they weigh 13# even, the CS500p weighs 14 1/2# and I haven't weighed the Dolmar 421 but have heard they are heavy. Steve


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## fordf150 (Oct 25, 2015)

MillerModSaws said:


> Cs-500p. From what I've been told the 500 and 490 are the same saw. The handle bar and clutch bell is the only difference.


The 490's I have looked over have rim drive Drums just like the 500.


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## Milkman31 (Oct 25, 2015)

Here is my cs400 with 14in bar.


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## woodbutcher56 (Oct 25, 2015)

Thanks for the advice mountainlake!!!
Is the 400 in the video stock or modded?


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## Milkman31 (Oct 26, 2015)

Is the 400 in the video stock or modded?[/QUOTE]. I added a muffler mod,carb adjustment and replaced the 18in bar with a 14in I had laying around.


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## chevyforlife21 (Oct 27, 2015)

Anyone know what chain comes stock on the 550xp? As in home owner or pro chain?


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## CoreyB (Oct 27, 2015)

Sometimes that depends on the dealer. Some will just equip it with what the customer wants.
At least that's how my dealer does it.


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## fordf150 (Oct 27, 2015)

Not sure how husky is but the jred equivalent(2253) comes PHO set up for .325 so bar and chain is up to the customer/dealer


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## woodbutcher56 (Oct 30, 2015)

D


grack said:


> I switched mine over to 3/8 18 inch bar it comes with .325 it had a 20 inch bar on it and it cut fine I cut mostly 14 inch and larger hardwood and just wanted my bar and pitch the same with my other saws it's very quiet stock and plugged up once I pulled the limiters and the tube in the muffler and cut the deflector back and retuned it really woke up I use this saw the most after my neighbor tried it he bought one need to weigh it but its light for a 50cc that I've used.


id you use echo parts for that conversion??


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## grack (Oct 30, 2015)

woodbutcher56 said:


> D
> 
> id you use echo parts for that conversion??


I used a small spline 3/8 stihl rim from my stihl dealer and a small mount husky total bar oils great I don't know which stihl saw maybe someone here knows.


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## chevyforlife21 (Nov 7, 2015)

Would you buy both eventually?


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## Fishnuts2 (Nov 7, 2015)

mountainlake said:


> Owning both saw I'd get the CS400 muff modd and tune it, with the lopro chain it cuts real close to the CS500 I have and the CS400 is going to be the lightest, ready to cut they weigh 13# even, the CS500p weighs 14 1/2# and I haven't weighed the Dolmar 421 but have heard they are heavy. Steve


I have a MM'ed CS400 and a 421. The 421 will send a 400 home and probably take its bigger brother along too. I really like my Echo's, but they're not in the same playground as the little Dolmar. The Dolmar is listed as 11 oz. heavier than the CS-400 by the way. 


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## mountainlake (Nov 8, 2015)

How much does a Dolmar 421 weigh ready to cut on a good scale, the way it sounds they must cut real close to a good 50cc saw, might have to get one just to see. Steve


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## woodbutcher56 (Nov 9, 2015)

Had a birthday Friday wife and kids bought me a Dolmar ps421!!! I cut up a 30' ash with it today. Wow!! Pretth darn nice saw!! Trunk was around 12" or so and the saw with a 16" bar and carlton chain went through it with no effort at all.


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## woodbutcher56 (Nov 9, 2015)

The 421 is effortless to start excelent throttle response and I didn't think it felt heavy at all. IMO if you try one you won't be dissapointed.


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## 7sleeper (Nov 9, 2015)

I am not quite sure but it sounds like you like it...




Congratulation to your birthday and a fantastic present!!!

7


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## Fishnuts2 (Nov 9, 2015)

woodbutcher56 said:


> Had a birthday Friday wife and kids bought me a Dolmar ps421!!! I cut up a 30' ash with it today. Wow!! Pretth darn nice saw!! Trunk was around 12" or so and the saw with a 16" bar and carlton chain went through it with no effort at all.


I'd trade you the card and cake that I got for my Birthday for a saw like that! Good on you!!


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## woodbutcher56 (Nov 18, 2015)

Cut up 4 cord of ash this week. 5 tanks through the little dolmar 421 still liking it alot!!! No mods yet the saw really runs pretty good as is ! I'll run it a while stock to make sure there are no warranty issues. If the MM and tune will make it better I'll be really impressed!!


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## CoreyB (Nov 18, 2015)

I have been pleasantly pleases by Dolmar. I am very glad we have a good local dealer.


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## SawTroll (Nov 19, 2015)

Big Block said:


> Is this ST bait ?



Well, the Shindaiwa 490 is rated at only 2.28 kW/3.1 hp vs. the 2.8 kW/3.8 hp of the 550xp - so the saws simply aren't comparable at all.

I assume the Echo 490 is the same saw as the Shindaiwa 490 internally.

*Edit*; Found the specs on the Echo 490: 2.14 kW/2.91 hp.

http://www.yamabiko-corp.co.jp/echo...?contents_type=26&compareItems=3599,3600,8303


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## rburg (Nov 19, 2015)

The price difference of $200-250 dollars would matter to those who are just using the saw for 2-3 cords per year.


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## tallguys (Nov 19, 2015)

rburg said:


> The price difference of $200-250 dollars would matter to those who are just using the saw for 2-3 cords per year.



All the more so in Canada. Echo CS-490 on sale at $399 while the 550xp sets you back $799. Huge difference for a firewood hack.


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## SawTroll (Nov 20, 2015)

tallguys said:


> All the more so in Canada. Echo CS-490 on sale at $399 while the 550xp sets you back $799. Huge difference for a firewood hack.



I fail to see the point with a 50cc saw that has lower rated power output than the modern breed of 42/43cc saws though.

Actually I believe it is the lowest specs ever, on a non-Chinese 50cc saw made after 1970...


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## mountainlake (Nov 20, 2015)

Rated HP is bs, A Echo CS490 cuts way better than 2.91 hp. I'd bet it cuts faster that a 3.8 hp MS290 Stihl in real life. Steve


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## airframefixer (Nov 20, 2015)

This new echo/shindaiwa model based on the same platform looks like it may compete with some of the better 50cc saws, like the 545, 2252, 353 etc, but not quite there in power to 5105, 550, 261. A step in the right direction, and I like what appears to be a non spring assist starter. Should be slimmer. 

http://www.yamabiko-corp.co.jp/echo_global/products/category_detail/id=8303


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## SawTroll (Nov 20, 2015)

mountainlake said:


> Rated HP is bs, A Echo CS490 cuts way better than 2.91 hp. .....



Why do they state such a low number then, if it isn't true?


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## chevyforlife21 (Nov 20, 2015)

Sense when does echo ever state hp ratings? Anyone been able to find one of these at Home Depot reconditioned ?


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## airframefixer (Nov 20, 2015)

They don't in north america other than the 355t campaign. They do on the yamabiko site, and all non road spark ignition engines have listed specs on the EPA website. I have found some descrepancies. My 369cc Ariens snowblower engine, is listed as a 414cc, and shows the same power ouput as the 414. So I have some doubts of accuracy.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 20, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Why do they state such a low number then, if it isn't true?


I have no idea what what here, but most *** HP numbers likely have pretty big BS factor.[emoji6]


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Nov 20, 2015)

Put'em in the cut. Tells you all you need to know. Paper specs mean BS to me. 

I'd take a 490 for a spin just to see.


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## SawTroll (Nov 20, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> I have no idea what what here, but most *** HP numbers likely have pretty big BS factor.



Well, some Echo saws surely sets a record in low power specs, and others do not; http://www.yamabiko-corp.co.jp/echo_global/products/category/contents_type=26


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## SawTroll (Nov 20, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> I have no idea what what here, but most *** HP numbers likely have pretty big BS factor.[emoji6]



2.9 hp on a 50cc saw is as sub-standard as it gets anyway, unless it is a China saw....


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## Deleted member 83629 (Nov 20, 2015)

MillerModSaws said:


> Cs-500p. From what I've been told the 500 and 490 are the same saw. The handle bar and clutch bell is the only difference.


the cs-490 uses a K216 bar mount and the cs-500 uses a D176 mount.


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## SawTroll (Nov 21, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> I have no idea what what here, but most *** HP numbers likely have pretty big BS factor.[emoji6]




Well - there is an obvious reason that Echo doesn't state them in the US - but they have to do it elsewhere. 

Also, even their "best" saws feels like the plastic is very fragile, with sharp edges that is prone to break (it happens).


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## 7sleeper (Nov 21, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Well - there is an obvious reason that Echo doesn't state them in the US - but they have to do it elsewhere.
> 
> Also, even their "best" saws feels like the plastic is very fragile, with sharp edges that is prone to break (it happens).


Well all this number worshiping kind of reminds me that the exhaust numbers from VW are also impeccable...


JeremiahJohnson said:


> Put'em in the cut. Tells you all you need to know. Paper specs mean BS to me.


I see it the same!

7


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## Fishnuts2 (Nov 21, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> I have no idea what what here, but most *** HP numbers likely have pretty big BS factor.[emoji6]


And some are much worse than others! 
Try a Dolmar PS-421 and a Stihl MS250, both rated at 2.9 hp, and see the difference in wood, not paper.


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## lasmacgod (Nov 21, 2015)

jakewells said:


> the cs-490 uses a K216 bar mount and the cs-500 uses a D176 mount.



The old CS-500 may have used the D176 mount, but both the CS-490 and current production CS-500 use the K216 mount. For a broader selection of bars, the K041 mount works perfectly well. The difference is that on the K216 mount, there is a dedicated oiler hole in the bar, which doesn't line up up all that great, in addition to oiling through the hole for the bar adjuster. The K041 is the same bar mount, minus the dedicated oiler hole. Just take a look at the illustrations for the two bar mounts in the Oregon catalog and you'll see what I am most likely failing to explain. 

In short, on the CS-490 and the current iteration of the CS-500, both the K041 and K216 bar mounts work with no modification.


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## lasmacgod (Nov 21, 2015)

I got curious and just went over the IPLs for the CS-490 and CS-500 published on echo's website. There are many different part numbers between the two, enough so that I didn't get too detailed on the comparison. In short, the starter assembly, air filter cover, crankcase, clutch cover, front handle, oiler, rear handle, stock bar, and muffler all had different part numbers. 

Piston, cylinder, air filter, clutch, clutch drum, and carb were all the same if I recall correctly. 

As to specific differences, I didn't get too detailed. I would guess that the assemblies are all interchangeable in their entirety, but the individual parts within an assembly may not be. 

It amazed me how many parts were different. It seems to me that it would make the parts supply chain unnecessarily complex.


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## Idahonative (Nov 21, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> I have no idea what what here, but most *** HP numbers likely have pretty big BS factor.[emoji6]



I agree HP numbers don't mean much. Everyone focuses on HP numbers because that is what manufacturers use to convince people (who don't know any better), which saw they should buy based on "power". This concept is misleading at best (are you listening @SawTroll?).

I have watched your vid comparing your 590 and your ported 361 many times. Although I don't want to inject that vid here as a matter of arguing what saw is this or that, I do want to bring it into this conversation as we are talking about the "power" of a saw. You know far more about saws than I ever will but IMO, talk of "power" should be more about torque than HP and there is no better example of this than your 590 vs. 361 vid.

It is surprising to me as many times as that vid has been posted, re-posted, and posted again on this forum, not a single person has mentioned the difference in the way those two saws cut. Overall, they aren't that far apart in "cut times" which is obviously amazing considering the 590 is a homeowner saw. But even more amazing (IMO) is the "cut rate" of the two saws. The 361 being very fast at first, then slowing, and the 590 being totally consistent throughout the cut. The 361 benefits from the momentum of the higher rpm's but only until the chain slows and torque takes over.

Listen and watch the 361 cut. It clearly revs higher and for about the first 1/4-1/3 of the wood, launches at a noticeably faster rate than the 590. But after that, it slows to a "cut rate" that is the same or slower than the 590. Watch the 590 and you will see the "cut rate" is very uniform from start to finish. Not so with the 361. Why? I believe it has everything to do with torque. Although the 590 has less HP and lower rpm's, it cuts very close (overall) to that ported 361 because of it's high torque.



Another good example would be the 600p that Brad ported. Watch how consistent it is throughout the cut:



People like SawTroll love to talk about HP and how saws like Echo's are crap because the HP is low and Echo doesn't like to publish numbers. It is without a doubt, complete BS. No better example of this than a homeowner saw giving a ported pro saw all it can handle.


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## Idahonative (Nov 21, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Well, the Shindaiwa 490 is rated at only 2.28 kW/3.1 hp vs. the 2.8 kW/3.8 hp of the 550xp - so the saws simply aren't comparable at all.
> 
> I assume the Echo 490 is the same saw as the Shindaiwa 490 internally.
> 
> ...



You need to educate yourself on the differences of HP and Torque. This may come as a surprise to you but torque is what gets the work done and that applies to a lot of things around the world, not just chainsaws. My 400 hp Dodge Cummins will pull a 20,000 lb. trailer but a 400 hp gas engine struggles with 1/3 that weight. Why? My 400 hp Cummins puts out 800 ft/lbs. of torque...the 400 hp gas engine puts out half that. Get it?


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## Idahonative (Nov 21, 2015)

TORQUE, moving an 8,000 lb. truck:


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## Idahonative (Nov 21, 2015)

Did I mention TORQUE gets the work done?

BTW: What the heck is HP?


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## SawTroll (Nov 21, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> You need to educate yourself on the differences of HP and Torque. This may come as a surprise to you but torque is what gets the work done and that applies to a lot of things around the world, not just chainsaws. My 400 hp Dodge Cummins will pull a 20,000 lb. trailer but a 400 hp gas engine struggles with 1/3 that weight. Why? My 400 hp Cummins puts out 800 ft/lbs. of torque...the gas engine puts out half that. Get it?



Power is a function of torque and rpm, there isn't any "magic" going on. When a saw has less hp at a given rpm, that is a direct result of it having less torque at that rpm.

Low end torque isn't very interesting on a chainsaw, unless you are using a too small saw for the task. Cutting will be slow anyway.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 22, 2015)

Without HP torque means nothing. 10,000 pounds of torque at one rpn wont get you anywhere fast. You can't simply say torque is where it's at, if you do you lack the basic fundamentals. torque + rpm = HP.


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> Without HP torque means nothing. 10,000 pounds of torque at one rpn wont get you anywhere fast. You can't simply say torque is where it's at, if you do you lack the basic fundamentals. torque + rpm = HP.



HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Power is a function of torque and rpm, there isn't any "magic" going on. When a saw has less hp at a given rpm, that is a direct result of it having less torque at that rpm.
> 
> Low end torque isn't very interesting on a chainsaw, unless you are using a too small saw for the task. Cutting will be slow anyway.



You remind me of someone who used to be a member here. Did your previous username use to be peter399?


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 22, 2015)

Correct you have to have both. HP is the amount of work an engine can preform. Torque is the amount of force on a rotating axis. Again you can't separate the two.


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> Correct you have to have both. HP is the amount of work an engine can preform. Torque is the amount of force on a rotating axis. Again you can't separate the two.



Agree.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 22, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> Agree.



Remember without RPM's all the torque in the world still won't preform a task.


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> Remember without RPM's all the torque in the world still won't preform a task.



Andre, I agree with you. I didn't mean literally that ONLY torque mattered. I was being a bit obnoxious with the use of the word (and my posts) because everyone on this site is obsessed with stated HP numbers. My goal was to bring attention to the word, not that it was the one and only thing the mattered when discussing power.

EDIT: BTW, I would love to see you do the same comparison (590 vs. 361) in bigger wood. I don't believe there would have been much difference between those two saws because of the 590's higher torque.


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## SawTroll (Nov 22, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> You remind me of someone who used to be a member here. Did your previous username use to be peter399?



No - I don't have a former user name, but I remember Peter.


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## SawTroll (Nov 22, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> ....
> 
> EDIT: BTW, I would love to see you do the same comparison (590 vs. 361) in bigger wood. I don't believe there would have been much difference between those two saws because of the 590's higher torque.



Again, the 590 will have less torque at the rpm that is interesting, as reflected in the hp numbers.


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Again, the 590 will have less torque at the rpm that is interesting, as reflected in the hp numbers.



If you would pull your nose out of those papers you're reading long enough to watch the vid, you would see that what you are saying is wrong. Who cares what "rpm is interesting". What we care about in the "real world" is how the saw cuts. It's hard for you to admit but Echo is doing it right...focusing more on torque than HP. Guys that actually get out of their house and cut wood know what puts the wood on the ground.

I realize you are a puppet for Husqvarna but I've got to give credit where credit is due. You have probably helped to sell more Echo's than any other single person on this site. When you spew the same old crap, over and over, it gets people fired up...and it keeps Echo's name at the top of the page.


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## Tifford (Nov 22, 2015)

Some out of date info for what it's worth.

I have a Shindawa 488 that runs like a scalded ape. Shin and Echo merged many years ago and if Echo has any of Shins DNA in their engines, I would not hesitate to buy one. That 488 cuts like a light saber.

I also have a Poulan Pro (made by husky) which gets a bad rap but my particular one has given me years of reliable service.

People will hem and haw about cc, hp, weight, power to weight ratio, dollar to cc ratio, etc etc. Pick a saw that feels good and treat it right.


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

Tifford said:


> Some out of date info for what it's worth.
> 
> I have a Shindawa 488 that runs like a scalded ape. Shin and Echo merged many years ago and if Echo has any of Shins DNA in their engines, I would not hesitate to buy one. That 488 cuts like a light saber.
> 
> ...



SawTroll will be along very shortly to point out your flawed thinking. I think he only kind of hated Shindaiwa. But since the merger, he's a full on hater of both.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 22, 2015)

The Echo's cheerleader team should really calm down


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## mountainlake (Nov 22, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Again, the 590 will have less torque at the rpm that is interesting, as reflected in the hp numbers.




The fact is that high RPM saws give up lower RPM torque to get that extra RPM and end up with a narrow power band and fall on there face fast soon as . the RPM get just a little lower than peak HP rpm. Steve


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## MarcS (Nov 22, 2015)

The only way I'd pay attention to specs on paper is if they printed a graph showing rpm, hp, torque. Without all three I don't think you can draw many conclusions.


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> The Echo's cheerleader team should really calm down



Cheerleader from France:



Cheerleader from the USA:


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 22, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> Cheerleader from France:
> View attachment 463231
> 
> 
> ...


I read "Croatia"...


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> I read "Croatia"...



Is there a difference? Both are Socialist.


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## Deleted member 83629 (Nov 22, 2015)

@Marshy


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 22, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> Is there a difference? Both are Socialist.


And...?


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

jakewells said:


> @Marshy



Don't be a tattle-tale Jake.


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## SawTroll (Nov 22, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> The Echo's cheerleader team should really calm down



I suspect it isn't a coincidence that "team" became active on several chainsaw forums at pretty much the same time - and the argumentation always seem to be the same lame one...

It really is both tragic and funny!


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## SawTroll (Nov 22, 2015)

MarcS said:


> The only way I'd pay attention to specs on paper is if they printed a graph showing rpm, hp, torque. Without all three I don't think you can draw many conclusions.



True - the max numbers is just a "snapshot" of one point of the "power band".


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> I suspect it isn't a coincidence that "team" became active on several chainsaw forums at pretty much the same time - and the argumentation always seem to be the same lame one...
> 
> It really is both tragic and funny!



Keep up the good work Troll. You're the frontrunner for Echo Salesman of The Year.


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## SawTroll (Nov 22, 2015)

mountainlake said:


> The fact is that high RPM saws give up lower RPM torque to get that extra RPM and end up with a narrow power band and fall on there face fast soon as . the RPM get just a little lower than peak HP rpm. Steve



That no doubt is the case some times, more often with ported saws than with stock ones - _to a degree_ it is a tradeoff.

However, I see no point with a saw that doesn't have a decent top end - and that is possible without creating a really narrow power band.


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## SawTroll (Nov 22, 2015)




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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> However, I see no point with a saw that doesn't have a decent top end - and that is possible without creating a really narrow power band.



Fair enough...I'm all for allowing everyone their opinions even if I don't agree with them. But, for years, you have went out of your way to trash talk pretty much everything but your pet brand. Is it that hard to admit that Stihl, Husky, Dolmar, and Echo (and others) make some really fine PRO equipment?

In all honesty Troll, you have some good input on this site but it is oftentimes overshadowed by your obsession with downing all brands except your own. To the point where it appears you have some sort of personal connection with Husqvarna.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 22, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> Fair enough...I'm all for allowing everyone their opinions even if I don't agree with them. But, for years, you have went out of your way to trash talk pretty much everything but your pet brand. Is it that hard to admit that Stihl, Husky, Dolmar, and Echo (and others) make some really fine PRO equipment?
> 
> In all honesty Troll, you have some good input on this site but it is oftentimes overshadowed by your obsession with downing all brands except your own. To the point where it appears you have some sort of personal connection with Husqvarna.



You're wrong, ST said good things about many Dolmar saws, and a few Stihl's over the years. He actually own a 361 and his "beloved witchy" was a Dolly 5100 I think (or a 5105?)


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> You're wrong, ST said good things about many Dolmar saws, and a few Stihl's over the years. He actually own a 361 and his "beloved witchy" was a Dolly 5100 I think (or a 5105?)



What a surprise...I'm wrong. And another surprise...only your opinion matters. Must be a leftist thing.


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## SawTroll (Nov 22, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> You're wrong, ST said good things about many Dolmar saws, and a few Stihl's over the years. He actually own a 361 and his "beloved witchy" was a Dolly 5100 I think (or a 5105?)



5100SH, and it was my wife that wanted that saw - so I keep it even though it doesn't compare favorably to a 346xpg.

My 361W was stolen a few years ago, along with a 372xpg (old story by now).

Btw, I don't "hate" any chainsaws that isn't Chinese knock-offs/fakes.

All brands make saws that I don't like, including Husky. I surely would take an Echo 590 over a Husky 455, and have said so several times - but I don't want any of them.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 22, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> What a surprise...I'm wrong.



No, that's absolutely not a surprise.


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## SawTroll (Nov 22, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> ......
> 
> In all honesty Troll, you have some good input on this site but it is oftentimes overshadowed by your obsession with downing all brands except your own. To the point where it appears you have some sort of personal connection with Husqvarna.



I don't have any "own brand", and no connection to any brand. It just looks that way at the moment, as Husky has been doing a much better job than other brands in the 50 and 60cc classes for a while. 

Also, I buy chainsaws relatively seldom, so I don't care much about price differences.

If I *had too *buy a 50cc Echo, it would be the 501SX, that likely is the same saw that is called 500P in the US - but I wouldn't really want to....


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## Marshy (Nov 22, 2015)




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## Deleted member 83629 (Nov 22, 2015)

you to fighting over a saw is pathetic grown men acting like you are 5 yrs old.
doesn't matter what each of us think IT IS CALLED A OPINION and everyone is entitled to one so then just get over yourselves.
this is like randy fighting it out with brad. a bunch of foolishness.


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## jughead500 (Nov 22, 2015)

so whos gonna be in the jib jab bromance vids this year?


----------



## KenJax Tree (Nov 22, 2015)

jughead500 said:


> so whos gonna be in the jib jab bromance vids this year?


 Bwalker and Redbull


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## Deleted member 83629 (Nov 22, 2015)

jughead500 said:


> so whos gonna be in the jib jab bromance vids this year?


you first hon.


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## jughead500 (Nov 22, 2015)

jakewells said:


> you first hon.


don't think that would go over too well with me chewin on ginseng roots right now.


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## Deleted member 83629 (Nov 22, 2015)

sassafras root is better.


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## jughead500 (Nov 22, 2015)

jakewells said:


> sassafras root is better.


sassafras tastes good but dont have a "secondary" kick to it. may try to mix some and see what happens though.may be more powerful than horney goat weed.


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## Deleted member 83629 (Nov 22, 2015)

try hydrocodone mixed with beer.


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

jakewells said:


> you to fighting over a saw is pathetic grown men acting like you are 5 yrs old.
> doesn't matter what each of us think IT IS CALLED A OPINION and everyone is entitled to one so then just get over yourselves.
> this is like randy fighting it out with brad. a bunch of foolishness.


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## brent denny (Nov 22, 2015)

Just thought I'd chime in and try to clear up a few differences between the 490 and 500p. Most of the parts with different numbers will interchange. The top cover is black on the 500 and orange on the 490. Fit is the same so interchangeable. Same with the mufflers 490 is stainless and 500 is painted black. Crankcase and clutch cover differences can be attributed to the chain tensioner setup. Front mounted tensioner on the 500 (tensioner screw hole in the front of the crankcase near the bumper spike) and clutch cover mounted tensioner on the 490. Aluminum front handle on the 500 and plastic on the 490. I don't believe these will interchange and they also mount slightly different to the rear handle so different part number there also. The starters assemblies are the same. There was a change in production dependent on serial numbers and the upgraded parts are the same. The 500 comes with a power match bar and the 490 is a laminated prolite/double guard. Carb, clutch, sprocket, and all engine/internals should be the same. They are pretty much the same saw.


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## Deleted member 83629 (Nov 22, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> View attachment 463441


blocked


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## Idahonative (Nov 22, 2015)

jakewells said:


> blocked



Looks like Jake has been recruited by the entitlement crowd. The only opinions that matter are theirs and you don't dare say anything that can remotely be construed as negative (or tell a joke). Come on Jake, grow a pair. I was having a little fun and you block me? Seriously? Real men don't ignore and block.


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## weedkilla (Nov 22, 2015)

I really don't get this echo vs husky/stihl thing. It's not all that complicated to me, double the price is never going to get you twice the saw. That extra bit of performance, or slightly lower weight or whatever means a lot to some, and not much to others.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 23, 2015)

weedkilla said:


> I really don't get this echo vs husky/stihl thing. It's not all that complicated to me, double the price is never going to get you twice the saw. That extra bit of performance, or slightly lower weight or whatever means a lot to some, and not much to others.



I agree. There are just a few guys who need to reassure themselves by claiming their saws are the strongest even when they cost half the price.


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## SawTroll (Nov 23, 2015)

jakewells said:


> you to fighting over a saw is pathetic grown men acting like you are 5 yrs old.
> doesn't matter what each of us think *IT IS CALLED A OPINION* and everyone is entitled to one so then just get over yourselves.
> this is like randy fighting it out with brad. a bunch of foolishness.



A*n* opinion - but the real problem is ignorance regarding facts. Some people don't like facts, when they don't fit with their opinions.

The Echo marketing in the US is based on confusing the public by lack of facts, but a lot of hype.

Also, even the more expensive Echo saws feels and looks like the plastic is cheap and brittle, and there are some evidence that it is.


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## SawTroll (Nov 23, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> I agree. There are just a few guys who need to reassure themselves by claiming their saws are the strongest even when they cost half the price.



That's the main issue with threads that is about "cheap" saws being "just as good" as more expensive ones - it seldom is true, but some people always will try to convince others that it is the case, to feel better about their "deal".

Mostly you get what you pay for though, and there always are some disadvantages with those "good deals".


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## SawTroll (Nov 23, 2015)

weedkilla said:


> I really don't get this echo vs husky/stihl thing. It's not all that complicated to me, double the price is never going to get you twice the saw. That extra bit of performance, or slightly lower weight or whatever means a lot to some, and not much to others.



True enough - but the difference between 2.9 and 3.8 hp hardly is "a bit" - it is another world (back to topic).


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## SawTroll (Nov 23, 2015)

mountainlake said:


> Rated HP is bs, A Echo CS490 cuts way better than 2.91 hp. I'd bet it cuts faster that a 3.8 hp MS290 Stihl in real life. Steve



There is no point in comparing any saw to the MS290, as the power-band is so bad that it isn't fun at all. It has no power over or under the max hp point. It is a very badly ported saw, which Echo also is "infamous" for.

Rated hp isn't BS, but it is only part of the story - torque over and just under the max hp rpm is very important, but not torque at 6 or 7,000 rpm - that's totally redundant, unless you have messed up badly in the first place.


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## mountainlake (Nov 23, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> There is no point in comparing any saw to the MS290, as the power-band is so bad that it isn't fun at all. It has no power over or under the max hp point. It is a very badly ported saw, which Echo also is "infamous" for.
> 
> Rated hp isn't BS, but it is only part of the story - torque over and just under the max hp rpm is very important, but not torque at 6 or 7,000 rpm - that's totally redundant, unless you have messed up badly in the first place.




And the MS290 is Stihls number one selling saw due to those inflated HP numbers. Steve


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## mountainlake (Nov 23, 2015)

Output (kW / ps)
2.57 / 3.50
Dry weight (kg)
4.7
Fuel tank capacity (L)
0.50
Fuel consumption at maximum engine power (L/h)
1.54
Chain oil tank capacity (L)
0.28
Priming pump
No
Ignition system
CDI
Start assist system
Decomp
Chain brake
Inertia
Choke w/ automatic fast idle release
Yes
Chain tensioner
Side
Saw chain pitch (inch)
0.325
Guide bar gauge (inch)
0.058



Troll 2.57 kw = about 3.46hp , where did you come up with that 2.91 hp. Not that hp numbers mean anything but I could believe 3.46 hp with a clogged up muff. Steve


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## Marshy (Nov 23, 2015)

You can buy an escort with a cobra 351 in it but its still an escort at the end of the day.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 23, 2015)

Yeah, and with a simple muffler mod, you gain at least 4hp, like on all the Echo's.


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## BGE541 (Nov 23, 2015)

GrassGuerilla said:


> That may be a first? Shinsaws are solid as they get. Getting a Shindaiwa at an Echo price and warranty is a win win.
> 
> I'll say this, the Echo is a stone simple 2-stroke. No Strato, no auto-tune, no proprietary unobtainable BS whatsoever. If I needed an occasional use saw, that'd be on my short list of desirables. Simple is good.
> 
> Think about it like this: for the tiny amount of cutting your talking about, the saw will mostly sit unused. Right? When you forget to drain it, and it gets gummed up. What will it cost? How much is a new carb for instance? I'd wager that echo will be much cheaper to "keep it in the race".



THIS^^^ I have been looking for ANY Husky dealer around here that can relash my 562XP.... NO ONE. Out of 7 shops that say they are husky dealers not one can/will do it. I called Husky and they said they would send word out to the dealers and find someone... That was 6 months ago, but hey, I was supposed to get a call back in 3 days, still waiting. I would not buy an AT saw again (from Husky). I really like there saws but the dealers suck and my Echo's always run.


----------



## BGE541 (Nov 23, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> Yeah, and with a simple muffler mod, you gain at least 4hp, like on all the Echo's.



Or just pay good money and have your Husky "ported" with some thing that looks like it was done with 400 grit emery cloth


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 23, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> Or just pay good money and have your Husky "ported" with some thing that looks like it was done with 400 grit emery cloth


Yeah, or you could have it ported by a great builder for a really good price and have one of the best saw I ever used!


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## BGE541 (Nov 23, 2015)

Im glad to see that transpired from the whole deal. 

We dont have anyone here that knows what AutoTune is let alone how to work on it or I may grab another...


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## sunfish (Nov 23, 2015)

I prefer the pre-AT saws, but the 562xp I do have has been flawless...

and I sure would not trade it for a Echo!!!


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## ash man (Nov 23, 2015)

Captain not to open up a new can of worms, but out of those 346's you have which one's the go to?


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## BGE541 (Nov 23, 2015)

Oh I wasn't talking 346 but 562


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 23, 2015)

ash man said:


> Captain not to open up a new can of worms, but out of those 346's you have which one's the go to?



I'll not answer to this question on the main forum, If you really want to know, send me a pm!


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## ash man (Nov 23, 2015)

Gotcha. I'd say you've got some of the most talented guys in the business massaging your saws.


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## SawTroll (Nov 23, 2015)

brent denny said:


> Just thought I'd chime in and try to clear up a few differences between the 490 and 500p. Most of the parts with different numbers will interchange. The top cover is black on the 500 and orange on the 490. Fit is the same so interchangeable. Same with the mufflers 490 is stainless and 500 is painted black. Crankcase and clutch cover differences can be attributed to the chain tensioner setup. Front mounted tensioner on the 500 (tensioner screw hole in the front of the crankcase near the bumper spike) and clutch cover mounted tensioner on the 490. Aluminum front handle on the 500 and plastic on the 490. I don't believe these will interchange and they also mount slightly different to the rear handle so different part number there also. The starters assemblies are the same. There was a change in production dependent on serial numbers and the upgraded parts are the same. The 500 comes with a power match bar and the 490 is a laminated prolite/double guard. Carb, clutch, sprocket, and all engine/internals should be the same. They are pretty much the same saw.



The 500 you described there sounds like the one that is called 500ES over here, and share the 2.1 kW/2.9 hp specs with the 490.



http://www.yamabiko-corp.co.jp/echo...?contents_type=26&compareItems=3599,3600,8303


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## SawTroll (Nov 23, 2015)

mountainlake said:


> Output (kW / ps)
> 2.57 / 3.50
> Dry weight (kg)
> 4.7
> ...



*The 2.57 kW/3.5 hp specs are for the 501SX, not the 490 or 500ES.* Those both are rated at 2.14 kW/2.91 hp


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## CoreyB (Nov 23, 2015)

Some of you guys make me laugh. Most guy's who heat with wood are budget minded and cost is a real factor and important. 
Two things , The way some of you talk about hp is silly. if you go to a drag racing track and just start listening to the conversations you will quickly find out there is a lot more to going down the track fast then just hp. They will be talking or even arguing over traction, suspension, gear ratios, ect..... 
If you have a your saw built by a saw builder they can adjust the build some to meet your needs, what kind of wood, what size of wood, what size of bar.
Terms like huskies "light touch" or "leaning on it" are here for a reason. They apply to your saws characteristics and power delivery. 
To discuss specs without putting the saws side by side in the intended wood you plan to cut is almost a complete waist of time. 
If you find a good dealer they will let you run the saws and if you want to get even more particular you can take some wood that you intend to be cutting. 
Some Saw manufacturer try and build saws that are best for their intended use. Some saws are built to tailor a bit more to the logger, some to the firewood guys and some to the home owner that may use his saw 6 times a year.
Some people say hay this is an arborist saw so it must be great for me. However a top handle say is not really a great choice for a first time saw owner that realistically would be better served with a small home owner rear handle saw. 
Have fun with your argument I find it funny and entertaining but anyone looking for help should really just ignore half of you.


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## chipper1 (Nov 23, 2015)

Chevyforlife, I think you should find either a GTG in your area or find a couple members on here in your area to go out cutting with. I agree with what CoreyB said above and think it's hard to assess your needs/wants and that it's a joke all the back and forth. Guys your popularity ratings are not directly proportionate to the amount of post you have made. Even though you are all correct in many areas pride in the particular areas you are good in or have much knowledge in clouds your thinking in other areas(I'm guilty also and thus qualified to make this assessment please insert the guy poking the other one in the eye here Luke 6:41-42). 
I've looked at some of your past post, and it sounds like you would benefit greatly from getting together with some other guys and learning some technics. A sharp chain on your ms170 or the echo you previously sold will have no problem with cutting the wood you are cutting(better than a 550xp with a dull chain). CoreyB gave you some great advice in regards to your 170 and getting it going as well. If you just want to upgrade to have a new toy most everyone on here can relate as the 3-5 saw plan is commonly recommended on AS.
I think a used Husky 450 for 150-200 or cheaper would exceed your needs, as it looks like you get around on craigslist and have basic knowledge of how to get a good deal. In comparison to what you have it will rip at 3.2 (advertised hp who knows what the torque specs are but it pulls nice in wood under 12" lol). With a 16" bar in the hands of someone who does not operate a saw on a normal basis they wouldn't even notice if I switched it out with a 346xp or a 353. It looks the same, feels very similar and with a sharp chain will cut very close for an occasional user. Lets be real here and not flame me for saying this guys. I have owned a 346ne and loved it, and now have the 550xp, 353, and a 450. I fill them all up before I go out and cut firewood and they all get used.
The 550 kicks butt, but I hate to scratch it up when the others cut pretty much the same and don't loose a bit of value unless I burn one of them up. At the end of a day of cutting I wouldn't save more than 15min in all the cutting and when you look at the amount of cutting you do that would be more time saved than you would probably save in 5yrs. A $150-200 saw seems to be the right one. Low initial cost and it will cost nothing to own until you feel the "need" to upgrade(these saws take a big hit once used and then keep there value for a long time). If you just want a little screamer(or like stihls better) then get a deal like the ms261c Brad just posted for 400+ shipping.
If you can't control the CAD and just "need" a bigger saw I have a nice ms441c-m, just pm me. Can't believe I'm the first one in 8 pages to mention a 70cc+ saw.
Hope this is helpful and also respectful to all the arguing parties who have more knowledge and experience in a small portion of their brain than I have in my whole body/ all my yrs.


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## Idahonative (Nov 23, 2015)

I find it funny how, anytime someone says a good word about Echo, the elitist saw snobs show up to discredit such talk. If you do a lot of reading on this site and others, you will see this pattern. It's almost like Echo's price vs. performance is a threat to the big boys. Even @Andyshine77 (590 vs. 361 vid) was skeptical of the 590/600/620 by reading some of his past posts (here & other sites) before he bought his 590. His opinion sure changed afterwords.

It's also funny how guys who own Echo's are quick to say good things about not only their Echo's, but other saws as well. Not so the other way around. Kind of reminds me of the way our Country works right now. A certain crowd preaches tolerance yet they are the most intolerant.


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## BGE541 (Nov 23, 2015)

Just gonna leave this here...


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## chipper1 (Nov 23, 2015)

Yes, I agree to a point and not just in regards to the echos, but homeowner/ranch saws and other saws unknow by the majority.
I also like that sawtroll does a great job of gathering info, the truth if it's reported properly. I have learned so much about different models and options throughout the yrs from him and he probably has not ran most of them. Specs are a great "indicator" of what the company or some "independent studies" that are done by a company usually to reflect the desired #'s the parent company(many times they own the company who does the independent study, example; pesticide companies own the research facilities that are studying why the honey bees are dying we already know why) wants to hit the market. We know in the last few yrs they have changed the ratings on many pieces of power equipment to cc's rather than hp. We also know that the good companies have typically underrated there products. A great example is logsplitters: a 22ton huskee splitter will do me just fine, but a timberwolf with the same rating will smoke it, because one is a more quality company and is going after long term sales not pleasing the masses with inflated #'s or the investors also with inflated #'s. I personally can't justify the cost per the amount of use, unless someone has a nice t-5 for 2k. 
The other side of the coin are the real life experiences of the guys who have used them. This is where I typically go to get advice on my purchases(after looking at the specs) and I don't buy the "beta version" because I can not get any real longer term experience advice about them. Thats why I have the 2014 husky 550xp, I want to reduce the possibility of buying a bad new version. 
I have a 575xp I can sell, but would you want that knowing the history many have had(perfect example because many have had great experiences with them and the newer 575xp. Knowing what I know and looking at the spec sheets which would I buy a 365 or a 575.
Experience makes a spec sheet look awful many times. We really need both to make a great decision because people have a hard time being non partial in most every situation. If they have a great experience they could care less if you had a bad one, it was your own fault and not the product lol. The other side says it's a piece of crap you must have gotten the only good one ever produced. 
I try to wade through all these opinions/specs, and make the best possible decision I can. I feel a little due diligence goes a long way. I have google searched so many saws and found out I should not buy them, not because they were a bad saw, but why buy an ms290 that is the smallest of that family of saws when I could get a 310 or 390 used for the same price. The funny thing is the ms290 would have been just fine, but I am from Michigan and have tim taylor ittis (TTI). It's in the same family of illness as CAD, it's just the fully blown version that effects all aspects of life and not just the common (to AS members) desire to buy chainsaws.
Thanks to everyone who has helped in my many saw buying decisions over the yrs and lets all be open minded as companies change and new companies will be up and coming through the many yrs of our lives. 
I will continue to do what I personally can to add to the beneficial side of this forum and be as unbiased as a person can.


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## chipper1 (Nov 23, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> Just gonna leave this here...
> 
> View attachment 463598


Lol, common sense just ain't so common these days.
Plenty of sheeple just following the masses.


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## rmotoman (Nov 23, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> I find it funny how, anytime someone says a good word about Echo, the elitist saw snobs show up to discredit such talk. If you do a lot of reading on this site and others, you will see this pattern. It's almost like Echo's price vs. performance is a threat to the big boys. Even Andyshine77 (590 vs. 361 vid) was skeptical of the 590/600/620 by reading some of his posts (here & other sites) before he bought his 590. His opinion sure changed afterwords.
> 
> It's also funny how guys who own Echo's are quick to say good things about not only their Echo's, but other saws as well. Not so the other way around. Kind of reminds me of the way our Country works right now. A certain crowd preaches tolerance yet they are the most intolerant.


You should have been here back when I joined in 2009. The echo bashing was 10 times worse. It was down right nasty. ST is really the only consistent basher left and he has never even seen an echo saw.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 23, 2015)

rmotoman said:


> You should have been here back when I joined in 2009. The echo bashing was 10 times worse. It was down right nasty. ST is really the only consistent basher left and he has never even seen an echo saw.


That's another problem, there's a lot of Echo fanboys who refuse any critic. 

If I say "Echo's are junk", I agree that's bashing. 

But if I say "Echo's are good and reliable saws, but they aren't the best saws on the market", there's a few fanboys who will call this "bashing" too.


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## mountainlake (Nov 23, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> The 500 you described there sounds like the one that is called 500ES over here, and share the 2.1 kW/2.9 hp specs with the 490.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.yamabiko-corp.co.jp/echo_global/products/compare/?contents_type=26&compareItems=3599,3600,8303




There's a vid on you tube with a CS500es cutting dead even with a Stihl MS261, that Echo must have big HP if we are to believe published HP numbers. Steve


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## ash man (Nov 23, 2015)

Of course an echo would keep up with a 261. That's not exactly a blazing fast saw. Now put it up against my 550xp and we'll see a different outcome.


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## mountainlake (Nov 23, 2015)

ash man said:


> Of course an echo would keep up with a 261. That's not exactly a blazing fast saw. Now put it up against my 550xp and we'll see a different outcome.




Regardless how fast your 550xp (3.75 hp) might cut, Stihl has the MS261 rated a 4 hp and the Echo CS500es is rated at 2.91 hp and yet they cut dead even. So much for published HP numbers Steve


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## chipper1 (Nov 23, 2015)

Mines better, no mine is, no mine is.
Really 


chevyforlife21 said:


> I'm an occasional user I know probably bother are overkill for the half a cord I cut a year.
> LOL
> You guys are really "helping".
> Hope everyone has there big boy Internet pants on.
> ...


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## sunfish (Nov 23, 2015)

I wonder if the OP got a saw?


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## chipper1 (Nov 23, 2015)

sunfish said:


> I wonder if the OP got a saw?


I'm sure he got more than he bargained for, but he's been around long enough to have heard it all before. To be honest it's one of the reasons I held out for yrs before joining. Then I found a sale on another site and bought a bunch of big boy pants. I just wear the til they get dirty and throw them out.


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## SawTroll (Nov 23, 2015)

mountainlake said:


> Regardless how fast your 550xp (3.75 hp) might cut, Stihl has the MS261 rated a 4 hp and the Echo CS500es is rated at 2.91 hp and yet they cut dead even. So much for published HP numbers Steve



There are so many other factor involved that a random video comparison doesn't really tell anything. You can basically "prove" whatever you want with such a video.


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## mountainlake (Nov 23, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> There are so many other factor involved that a random video comparison doesn't really tell anything. You can basically "prove" whatever you want with such a video.




And published HP numbers mean nothing. Steve


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## SawTroll (Nov 23, 2015)

mountainlake said:


> And published HP numbers mean nothing. Steve



Not true - but they don't tell the full story.


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## BGE541 (Nov 23, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> There are so many other factor involved that a random video comparison doesn't really tell anything. You can basically "prove" whatever you want with such a video.



SawTroll please watch this video and them lets talk about applicability of HP #s...



In all seriousness I know you are knowledgeable but I think it just depends what you want at what price point... at the end of the day we all cut wood. (Oh wait, this in AS where most saws sit on shelves til death) :shrug:


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## chipper1 (Nov 23, 2015)

Is it really an xp saw?


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## BGE541 (Nov 23, 2015)

chipper1 said:


> Is it really an xp saw?


 Yes 555XP with 562xp cyl and transfer covers and flash.

Muffler mod as well.


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## chipper1 (Nov 23, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> Yes 555XP with 562xp cyl and transfer covers and flash.
> 
> Muffler mod as well.


I thought it was just a 555, when did it pick up the xp designation.


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## BGE541 (Nov 23, 2015)

chipper1 said:


> I thought it was just a 555, when did it pick up the xp designation.



You know what I think you are right... I guess I call it that with the 562 XP stuff on it but as you stated it IS NOT an XP, just missing the crank stuffer to be a 560XP... in other lands. Good call chipper1.


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## chipper1 (Nov 23, 2015)

Ok, wouldn't be the first time I missed something new on the market. I haven't been in a saw shop in a couple months, and I like it that way.
Just applying some sawtroll specs/info to the situation. They call me a troll also because we live "under the Mackinac bridge" in the lower peninsula.
Nice video also, though that thing was ripping pretty hard for a 555 lol. Seems to have a lot of grunt (torque).


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## BGE541 (Nov 23, 2015)

chipper1 said:


> Ok, wouldn't be the first time I missed something new on the market. I haven't been in a saw shop in a couple months, and I like it that way.
> Just applying some sawtroll specs/info to the situation. They call me a troll also because we live "under the Mackinac bridge" in the lower peninsula.
> Nice video also, though that thing was ripping pretty hard for a 555 lol. Seems to have a lot of grunt (torque).



The 555 was ok but for 5cc more the Echo hauls the mail. I don't feel much "in the hand" weight and has a way better powerband (kinda the point of my consistent liking of Echo for the $)... also the Echo does great with a 27" bar, the performance drop on the 562XP was notable going from 20" to 24" so I couldn't see it getting beeter with a 27'28" bar. Again, all just my person thoughts/observations etc.


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## KenJax Tree (Nov 23, 2015)

How bout a 36" on a real 562xp


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## BGE541 (Nov 23, 2015)

Isn't that Mitch's? Nice!


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## Idahonative (Nov 23, 2015)

mountainlake said:


> Regardless how fast your 550xp (3.75 hp) might cut, Stihl has the MS261 rated a 4 hp and the Echo CS500es is rated at 2.91 hp and yet they cut dead even. So much for published HP numbers Steve



A great example of what you've been saying for quite some time now...published HP numbers don't mean chit, contrary to the crap that SawTurd and Haddick would have us believe.


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## KenJax Tree (Nov 23, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> Isn't that Mitch's? Nice!


Yup that was Mitch Weber


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## Deleted member 83629 (Nov 23, 2015)

rather have the 365 lol


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## chipper1 (Nov 23, 2015)

jakewells said:


> rather have the 365 lol


Thats what I'm talking about lol.
Like the signature,.


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## backhoelover (Nov 23, 2015)

only bad thing about 550 is you cant replace carb and coil unless you have the autotune program


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 23, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> A great example of what you've been saying for quite some time now...published HP numbers don't mean chit, contrary to the crap that SawTurd and Haddick would have us believe.


These SawTurd and Haddick seems to be really mean! I hope they didn't make you cry too much!


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## CoreyB (Nov 24, 2015)

Wait hold the presses!


SawTroll said:


> Not true - but they don't tell the full story.


Then why do you base so much of your agenda on hp rating and weight specs if they can not tell the full story. Then your drum has no head to beat.
Again if so many variables make it a mute point then no reason to disregard any other saw for someone else's uses.


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## ash man (Nov 24, 2015)

Husky, Stihl, Dolmar and yes Echo make great saws. I personally think Husky and Dolmar fit my personal needs best, so that's what I choose to own. If echo fits the bill for some, more power to ya, but the only one I see throwing out opinion over facts and mixing in some un called for slurs are the echo fan boys. Oh yea just in case I offended anybody else I better add Shinis, macs, poulans, efco, etc to the list of great saws.


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## mountainlake (Nov 24, 2015)

Seems to me the Stihl and Husky fan boys are the ones that get bent out of shape every time another good saw comes along. . So bad they have to make excuses when Echo saws cut right with Stihl and Husky best saws on quite a few vids. Steve


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## SawTroll (Nov 24, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> The 555 was ok but for 5cc more the Echo hauls the mail. .



The cc is the same, 59.8cc for both.


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## SawTroll (Nov 24, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> A great example of what you've been saying for quite some time now...published HP numbers don't mean chit, contrary to the crap that SawTurd and Haddick would have us believe.



Enjoy life in your fantasy world!


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## mountainlake (Nov 24, 2015)

Troll, you are the one with the fantasy world.. I'll believe my eyes on what I see in vids plus what I experience in real life ACTUALLY running different makes of saws. Steve


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 24, 2015)

mountainlake said:


> Troll, you are the one with the fantasy world.. I'll believe my eyes on what I see in vids plus what I experience in real life ACTUALLY running different makes of saws. Steve



Wait...you have experience in real life??


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## beaglebriar (Nov 24, 2015)

jakewells said:


> try hydrocodone mixed with beer.


Oooohh....sleepy time!


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## mountainlake (Nov 24, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> Wait...you have experience in real life??




No, I never ran a chainsaw in my life, any more stupid questions?? Steve


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 24, 2015)

mountainlake said:


> No, I never ran a chainsaw in my life



That was my guess after reading a few of your posts.


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## mountainlake (Nov 24, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> That was my guess after reading a few of your posts.


 One stupid post after another from you, Husky boy. Steve


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## ash man (Nov 24, 2015)

Actually Captain sig says he has a Stihl and a Dolmar. Seems like he spreads it around. How about u?


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## mountainlake (Nov 24, 2015)

I own and run most brands over here,, Stihl, Kusky, Dolmar, Echo, Efco, Redmax, Ryobi, Solo , Mac, and maybe some I forgot. Steve


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## GrassGuerilla (Nov 24, 2015)

Well this certainly derailed into a "you have poopy pants". "No, you do", kind of thread... 

Wonder if the op bought a saw or decided to just swing an axe for half a cord a year? Lol. 

Seriously, how much 'better' of a saw does one need to get that done? Personally I don't think he needs 'the best', but rather focus on something reliable, and serviceable. Saws that sit a lot are prone to fuel system issues. That's the primary reason I recommended an Echo. Easy enough to get a new carb and fuel line etc most anywhere via the Internet. Any potential speed advantage of the auto tune saws goes away fast if you need to have the carb serviced.


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## chipper1 (Nov 24, 2015)

I'll try any of them just bring them to me full of fuel. I'll run it til its empty and hand it back if I don't like it, but I will try it. I haven't owned them all, but prefer the pro models. When I'm done with them they will sell quicker also and I am always thinking about the overall cost if I can afford the cost up front. This is why I normally by Husky and Stihl, but would give any saw a try if the price was right and I thought I could make a buck on it down the rd. I usually by a pro model used in the same price range as a new home owner model (in the 50-60cc class gets harder to do with 70+cc saws). Even a used pro saw is more fun, kinda like sawtroll says they interest me more (not that that means its best for the OP or that its the better saw. It's a what type of exercise is the right one for me sort thing, the one you will do. I mowed a buddy of mines yard this summer and he thought he wanted a mower like mine, then I told him the price. I told him he would be more likely to mow his yard if he enjoyed it. But when you put cost effectiveness into the package a Craftsman rider will work just fine and most people are not willing to spend an extra 5-6k on a mower up front. I just enjoy my Exmark, now we can start arguing about mowers too; no the standup models are better, no the sit-down version is what you need, but a walk behind would be more productive for the small yards you do and cheaper to haul, but what about when you want to expand you should just buy a 60" Exmark lazer z with air ride seat thats what we use the most and we have over 20 mowers. Same story different forum.
You may not have realized this, but I thought it was funny and some echo head might want to put this in their signature.


ash man said:


> If echo fits the bill for some, more power to ya,


I like the "more power to you" with the echo, thats classic. Just remember I could care less what brand as long as it gets my wood cut and its fun for me to run.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 24, 2015)

mountainlake said:


> One stupid post after another from you, Husky boy. Steve



You call me Husky boy? I don't know what to say...maybe "thank you"?

Edit:

On a more serious note, I have absolutely nothing against Echo or any Brand of saws, but I am pissed of by the "Echo team" who can't support a single critic.
When someone say "this Echo has less hp than a ****** (replace ***** by every brand you want)", the Echo team come and say "stop bashing our brand, hp specs mean nothing".
When someone like Fordf150 or me post a comparative video where an Echo is outcut by a 6100 or a 560xp, the Echo team come and say "stop bashing Echo's, these vids mean nothing, I bet the the Echo has more torque, put a longer bar", or "with a simple muffler mod, the Echo will cut circles aroud the ******"

So please, be a little serious and stop whining each time someone say something you don't like about an Echo.


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## chipper1 (Nov 24, 2015)

H


CapitaineHaddoc said:


> You call me Husky boy? I don't know what to say...maybe "thank you"?[/QUOTE
> Hey Husky Boy( it's a title we should capitalize it going forward, it's just what's right).
> What does you shirt say in the picture and what type of saw are you holding lol.
> You probably cut more trees in a day than many on here cut in a month or a year including me, I'm listening.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 24, 2015)

chipper1 said:


> H



Yeah, I really like this pic with my old 064, my 1st chainsaw!


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## CoreyB (Nov 24, 2015)

You know guys if any brand of chainsaw invited us for a weekend trip gave us each a chainsaw, a fishing pole , a cooler full of red meat and a cooler full of cold beer I doubt anyone would be sitting around the huge fire we build bashing the saw!
Also how many time do you actually see someone selling a saw they "hate" a few at best.


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## KenJax Tree (Nov 24, 2015)

There would be no arguing at all. Everyone would be busy. All the Echo guys would be busy hauling the wood the Husky guys were cutting at record pace.[emoji23]


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 24, 2015)

The old logger who teach me my job told me when I was a kid: "The most important part is not the brand of the saw, what counts is to take care of your saw, and use a sharp chain". He used JRed saw for all this career, and now he use a Husky 560, cause he's pretty old and a bit tired, now.


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## BGE541 (Nov 24, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> You call me Husky boy? I don't know what to say...maybe "thank you"?
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...



So your videos prove that Echo's can be outcut, but others videos don't prove squat? People can bash Echo's all they want, I don't care, I just think a lot of people are put of by a solid brand because "die hard ***** brand lovers" say they are better. I have more Huskies then Echo's, I just think its ridiculous how saw brands get people SO bent out of shape. 

The biggest (and main) issue I have with husky is poor CS, communication and autotune service. I would gladly run any saw in you sig, my sig and most peoples sig, a fun cutting saw is a fun cutting saw. I think that each brand has pros/cons that can effect the end user in a greater manner then just HP/torque/etc... My favorite saw to run is my 371/385 that rattler ported. Just plain mean and can cut, cut cut but sometimes I want a better handling saw. Regardless of #s (published) the 620 is better handling then the 562 (for me) and I like the in board clutch. Also, no Autotune is a plus for me. I don't personally care if others like Echo, I just want to share information with those looking at new saws. 

It seems as if we forget here (AS) that sometimes people come with zero cutting experience. They may not have the funds, desire or self proclaimed need for a "Pro" saw with a lesser warranty. They man not need "Pro" power or will sacrifice power for weight. For me its not this vs. that but rather sharing observations for others to learn from, view and assist others in making an informed decision. 

You don't know what you don't know, you know?


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## BGE541 (Nov 24, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> There would be no arguing at all. Everyone would be busy. All the Echo guys would be busy hauling the wood the Husky guys were cutting at record pace.[emoji1]



I hauled wood and fell maples all weekend, but with a 385  im confused LMAO


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## chipper1 (Nov 24, 2015)

That old loggers attitude is how more people need to be. The problem is many grew up being taught that there is only one brand.
Nice 064, and Stihl shirt. I'm not as proud of my first saw, but I learned on my own and have made many mistakes along the way.
Here's a picture of my first saw. I would like to challenge everyone to put up a picture of their first saw and to have a good laugh instead of bashing one another.

I still have it. I may get it going for my boy or buy him and echo cs310 lol.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 24, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> So your videos prove that Echo's can be outcut, but others videos don't prove squat? People can bash Echo's all they want, I don't care, I just think a lot of people are put of by a solid brand because "die hard ***** brand lovers" say they are better. I have more Huskies then Echo's, I just think its ridiculous how saw brands get people SO bent out of shape.
> 
> The biggest (and main) issue I have with husky is poor CS, communication and autotune service. I would gladly run any saw in you sig, my sig and most peoples sig, a fun cutting saw is a fun cutting saw. I think that each brand has pros/cons that can effect the end user in a greater manner then just HP/torque/etc... My favorite saw to run is my 371/385 that rattler ported. Just plain mean and can cut, cut cut but sometimes I want a better handling saw. Regardless of #s (published) the 620 is better handling then the 562 (for me) and I like the in board clutch. Also, no Autotune is a plus for me. I don't personally care if others like Echo, I just want to share information with those looking at new saws.
> 
> ...



I don't include you in the "Echo cheerleader team", you know. I really enjoyed your videos, and you seems to know what you're talking about, not like some other Echo guys. I had the chance to run a 620, and I never said it wasn't a good saw. You just miss one point, if most of AS members are from USA, many guys live in Europe or Australia. And I can assure you, in many European countries, Echo's will be the last choice because of their crazy high prices.

For the exemple, I'll never say to someone here to buy a 590 or a 490, their prices are too close from good pro models from Dolmar and Husky.

I liked the Echo 510, I had the chance to use one, and it was a great runner, but when you can buy a 550 or even a 261 for less money, you'll never buy the Echo.

Same thing for the 620, why would someone buy one at €930 when the Dolly 6100 is available at €619 until the end of january?


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## CoreyB (Nov 24, 2015)

What a good saw the Jred 2051 is. Served me very well for a lot of firewood. Just sold her.


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## BGE541 (Nov 24, 2015)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> I don't include you in the "Echo cheerleader team", you know. I really enjoyed your videos, and you seems to know what you're talking about, not like some other Echo guys. I had the chance to run a 620, and I never said it wasn't a good saw. You just miss one point, if most of AS members are from USA, many guys live in Europe or Australia. And I can assure you, in many European countries, Echo's will be the last choice because of their crazy high prices.
> 
> For the exemple, I'll never say to someone here to buy a 590 or a 490, their prices are too close from good pro models from Dolmar and Husky.
> 
> ...



Thank you for that. I do not consider geographical disposition in regards to cost, I guess I should (even though I am not experienced with current international prices or exchange rates.) I am surprised that they would be more expensive (comparatively) elsewhere then in the US... Is the Dolmar/Makita the same mount as a Husky? I think someday I would like to try a bigger Dol/Makita that's ported. I think I may email @MillerModSaws or something to that names effect and see what he can do. 

Is your PS7900 ported?

On another note, my first saw was a old (when I got it) craftsman 42cc saw, started using it when I was 8... my dad would give me it and I would have to limb all the pine tree's. It blew up and is still in pieces as its not really worth the $ in parts. :/


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## Thornton (Nov 24, 2015)

chevyforlife21 said:


> The husky cost 550 the echo cost $350. What is the echo I noticed it looks different is it actually a shindawia? I'm an occasional user I know probably bother are overkill for the half a cord I cut a year. My other saw is a ms170
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If your still reading post and havn't purchased a saw yet. You might look at something in the middle of those 2 prices like Husky 545 or Jonsered 2252


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MillerModSaws (Nov 24, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> Thank you for that. I do not consider geographical disposition in regards to cost, I guess I should (even though I am not experienced with current international prices or exchange rates.) I am surprised that they would be more expensive (comparatively) elsewhere then in the US... Is the Dolmar/Makita the same mount as a Husky? I think someday I would like to try a bigger Dol/Makita that's ported. I think I may email @MillerModSaws or something to that names effect and see what he can do.
> 
> Is your PS7900 ported?
> 
> On another note, my first saw was a old (when I got it) craftsman 42cc saw, started using it when I was 8... my dad would give me it and I would have to limb all the pine tree's. It blew up and is still in pieces as its not really worth the $ in parts. :/


I'd be more than happy to help you in any way I can on a new dolmar of your choice!


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## SawTroll (Nov 24, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> .... Is the Dolmar/Makita the same mount as a Husky? ....



A lot of them currently share the bar mount patterns with the Huskys (small/K095 on 50 and 60cc, large/D009 on the larger saws) - but the 421 and smaller use the K041/A041.


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## SawTroll (Nov 24, 2015)

airframefixer said:


> This new echo/shindaiwa model based on the same platform looks like it may compete with some of the better 50cc saws, like the 545, 2252, 353 etc, but not quite there in power to 5105, 550, 261. A step in the right direction, and I like what appears to be a non spring assist starter. Should be slimmer.
> 
> http://www.yamabiko-corp.co.jp/echo_global/products/category_detail/id=8303



Yes, the 501SX looks like it is a step closer than the 490 and 500ES. I have posted about it here a few times already.

What I don't know is if the saw called 500P in the US is the 500ES or the 501SX - or a third variant....


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## lasmacgod (Nov 24, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Yes, the 501SX looks like it is a step closer than the 490 and 500ES. I have posted about it here a few times already.
> 
> What I don't know is if the saw called 500P in the US is the 500ES or the 501SX - or a third variant....


 
What I have seen from the IPL's is that the only difference between the 500P and 500ES is the lack of limiters on the carb adjustment screws on the 500ES. I have not looked at an IPL for the 501SX to know what the differences are there.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Nov 24, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> Thank you for that. I do not consider geographical disposition in regards to cost, I guess I should (even though I am not experienced with current international prices or exchange rates.) I am surprised that they would be more expensive (comparatively) elsewhere then in the US... Is the Dolmar/Makita the same mount as a Husky? I think someday I would like to try a bigger Dol/Makita that's ported. I think I may email @MillerModSaws or something to that names effect and see what he can do.
> 
> Is your PS7900 ported?
> 
> On another note, my first saw was a old (when I got it) craftsman 42cc saw, started using it when I was 8... my dad would give me it and I would have to limb all the pine tree's. It blew up and is still in pieces as its not really worth the $ in parts. :/


No, my 7900 is not ported unfortunately. 
Carl, will you agree to port the cylinder only if I send it to you? I can take care of the muffler and advance the timing if needed.


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## Sam_choq (Nov 30, 2015)

Hello i post it for future buyer , a cs 490 with shindaiwa 502 head . The head fit right there with no modification , it run much better less capricious . I see on a internet site new 502 cylinder fo 141us$


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## rburg (Nov 30, 2015)

Looks like a good runner. Has the muffler been opened up any?


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## Sam_choq (Nov 30, 2015)

rburg said:


> Looks like a good runner. Has the muffler been opened up any?


Simply remove the tube


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## Chris J. (Dec 1, 2015)

I really miss the beating-a-dead-horse emoticon.


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## chevyforlife21 (Dec 1, 2015)

Mmm friend chicken


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## Idahonative (Dec 29, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> SawTroll please watch this video and them lets talk about applicability of HP #s...
> 
> 
> 
> In all seriousness I know you are knowledgeable but I think it just depends what you want at what price point... at the end of the day we all cut wood. (Oh wait, this in AS where most saws sit on shelves til death) :shrug:




I was busy working when you posted this. I knew your MM'd 620p cut faster than your MM'd 555 (with 562xp top end and flash) but I didn't realize it was 36% faster (11 vs. 17 seconds). Says a lot about the 620p. Really good vid and, as usual, unbiased info from you. I'd really like to see an apples to apples comparison between the 620p and the 562xp. I think it would be a lot closer than most think.


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## huskyboy (Jan 14, 2016)

A while back I decided to give a cs590 a try. I ran it against my 545 with a muffler mod in 14" bone dry hard ash both brand new chains. I was a little disappointed that it cut noticably slower. The 545 held much higher rpms in the cut, while the echo you could lean on it a bit harder but still didn't cut as fast. I threw out the base gasket and did a muffler mod to the cs590, and it it made a huge difference, it cut about the same as the 545 now but (keep but in mind small wood) now I could put all my body weight on the sucker, talk about torque.... I can only imagine with being broken in a little more, it definately made me open my eyes a little to echo. I am a fan of huskies because I like lightning throttle response for limbing, the echo's just don't seem to have that, I sold the echo eventually, now that should say something. Now in that video, I do have to say the 555 looks to have a rather dull chain. Heres the 562 vs 620...


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## BGE541 (Jan 14, 2016)

FWIW this video has been dissected many times and unequal factors make it a less then fair comparison.


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## huskyboy (Jan 14, 2016)

BGE541 said:


> FWIW this video has been dissected many times and unequal factors make it a less then fair comparison.


How? The 620 has a smaller bar. So the 562 was at a disadvantage, and even a blind man at night can see the 562 cuts faster in the video.


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## BGE541 (Jan 14, 2016)

huskyboy said:


> How? The 620 has a smaller bar. So the 562 was at a disadvantage, and even a blind man at night can see the 562 cuts faster in the video.



Look at the tapering log size and the fact that the echo is brand new and the husky is broken in... I have many videos of the 555XP (upgraded to 560XP specs) 620s and 562... I have owned them all and can saw that in a small bar war they could be close, in a longer bar cut the 620 has a much wider powerband. This has been argued to many times on here... not saying im here to argue, just people seem to dislike facts other then their own thoughts (even thought rarely based on extensive experience.


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## Sam_choq (Jan 14, 2016)

hey guys it's write 550 vs 490. I think i own this 2 saw . What want to know , a cookie race?


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## rburg (Jan 14, 2016)

A cookie race would be fun to watch.


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## Sam_choq (Jan 14, 2016)

I can't realy do that because my 490 have a shindaiwa 502 head but it's write in specs the 490 is 2.9hp and the 502 3.0hp (3.7hp for the 550xp) Will try make video tomorow


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## bikemike (Jan 14, 2016)

chevyforlife21 said:


> Mmm friend chicken


I like food


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## huskyboy (Jan 14, 2016)

The crank stuffers make a big difference between the 562 and 555. They increase rpm and torque in cut.


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## BGE541 (Jan 14, 2016)

For throttle response... I know, I've owned both...


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## huskyboy (Jan 15, 2016)

I would buy a 365xt at the same price as the echo 620p if I needed to put longer than a 24" on a 60cc, 28" bar does not belong on a 60cc saw. That's 70cc-80cc territory IMO.


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## Sam_choq (Jan 15, 2016)

25cent rebuilt 550xp and 25cent rebuilt 490 with 502 head , no mod same chain-bar-sprocket-gaz oil motul800
It's was -25 degres this morning 

550 is 10sec faster for cookies .
If you look at the advantage you can take a coffe brake in cut with the 490
If i ship me some where with only one saw and no acces , i will choose the echo
But for turn around and play choose 550xp


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## rburg (Jan 15, 2016)

Thanks for the video. It looks cold there for sure.


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## BGE541 (Jan 15, 2016)

To the normal consumer that price difference and warrenty is making the echo look pretty good


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## Sam_choq (Jan 15, 2016)

haha yep but for normal consumer i think the best place to buy a saw no think about the make ,
it's where the dealer have more knowledge about what he sell


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## bikemike (Jan 15, 2016)

Sam_choq said:


> 25cent rebuilt 550xp and 25cent rebuilt 490 with 502 head , no mod same chain-bar-sprocket-gaz oil motul800
> It's was -25 degres this morning
> 
> 550 is 10sec faster for cookies .
> ...



Frozen wood is tough to cut. Not like summer time


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## Sam_choq (Jan 15, 2016)

yes and i have a good knowledge about this sometime here its -30 degrees one day next day 0 degrees make big difference in cut


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## bikemike (Jan 15, 2016)

Sam_choq said:


> yes and i have a good knowledge about this sometime here its -30 degrees one day next day 0 degrees make big difference in cut


Yeah I se a taste of what you deal with in Minnesota this weekend is all 10 below actual temp


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## mountainlake (Jan 16, 2016)

No sign of 4 stroking on the Echo, set way lean and boggy, stock with the clogged up muff? That's how they cut with no work done to them. Steve


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## Sam_choq (Jan 16, 2016)

mountainlake said:


> No sign of 4 stroking on the Echo, set way lean and boggy, stock with the clogged up muff? That's how they cut with no work done to them. Steve


Have you try the 490?


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## noshow74 (Jan 16, 2016)

mountainlake said:


> No sign of 4 stroking on the Echo, set way lean and boggy, stock with the clogged up muff? That's how they cut with no work done to them. Steve


You can tune that echo and the 550 will still stomp it. I own a 550 I know how they cut. Not bashing echo as I own a couple and really like them. Still thinking of grabbing a 490 to mess around with but my 550 will still be king.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## Jet47 (Jan 16, 2016)

Thanks for the video. 
I own a 550xp and am not surprised at the outcome.
From what I hear, Echo makes a very reliable product. But I can attest that Husqvarna does as well, they also do the job quicker.
Sam_choq if you haven't already, cut a tree or two with a 562xp or Jonsered 2260.


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## mountainlake (Jan 16, 2016)

Sam_choq said:


> Have you try the 490?




Yes I own a 500p and 490, not as much snort as the older 510, 520 or 530 saws which I'd run against any 50cc saw when both are muff modded. I agree the new 50cc Echos are down on power but not as bad as your vid as I've seen vids of them cutting right with a 261 Stihl. and other good saws. Steve


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## Sam_choq (Jan 16, 2016)

mountainlake said:


> Yes I own a 500p and 490, not as much snort as the older 510, 520 or 530 saws which I'd run against any 50cc saw when both are muff modded. I agree the new 50cc Echos are down on power but not as bad as your vid as I've seen vids of them cutting right with a 261 Stihl. and other good saws. Steve


Have you make video of your 500 or 490 in hard wood ?


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## 009L (Jul 9, 2016)

Tag


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## Wow (Mar 20, 2018)

grack said:


> I switched mine over to 3/8 18 inch bar it comes with .325 it had a 20 inch bar on it and it cut fine I cut mostly 14 inch and larger hardwood and just wanted my bar and pitch the same with my other saws it's very quiet stock and plugged up once I pulled the limiters and the tube in the muffler and cut the deflector back and retuned it really woke up I use this saw the most after my neighbor tried it he bought one need to weigh it but its light for a 50cc that I've used.


I called my dealer and plan to buy a Echo 490. I already own a 590 with a 24 inch bar. Because I have a new 3/8 drive bar and chain taken off the 590 my question is will the 590 bar fit the 490 saw? Thanks in advance.


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## mountainlake (Mar 20, 2018)

Wow The best thing you could do to a CS490 is a good muff modd, even more than just pulling the tube out, tune it good and put on a 3/8 lp setup off a Cs400, then you wont want to put it down .. I think a regular 3/8 7 tooth is too much chain for a 490 unless you have it ported. My CS500p after being broke in good with a good muff modd is pulling real good and I'd run it against any muff modded 50cc saw, it might not win BUT it will be real close one way or another. Quite a few vids on youtube with the Echo 50 cc running right with the best 50cc Stihl and Husky saws. Steve


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## Wow (Mar 20, 2018)

mountainlake said:


> Wow The best thing you could do to a CS490 is a good muff modd, even more than just pulling the tube out, tune it good and put on a 3/8 lp setup off a Cs400, then you wont want to put it down .. I think a regular 3/8 7 tooth is too much chain for a 490 unless you have it ported. My CS500p after being broke in good with a good muff modd is pulling real good and I'd run it against any muff modded 50cc saw, it might not win BUT it will be real close one way or another. Quite a few vids on youtube with the Echo 50 cc running right with the best 50cc Stihl and Husky saws. Steve


Thanks. Had no idea a Echo 400 ran 3/8 chain. Not a fan of. .325. I may try a Rim drive already on hand. Does the 400 have a 7 tooth spur or a rim?


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## stubnail67 (Mar 20, 2018)

Pretty sure the cs 400 is 3/8s Lo pro.....I would like to know what rim will fit 490... my 490 has a .325 Nk bar and chain and its not bad... i bet it would really cut with the lopro.... some one has done this set up think he had to have the rim made special.... James miller i think.....my cs 400 is a spur 3/8s lo pro...490 is a rim on mine the 590 spur full 3/8s


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## James Miller (Mar 20, 2018)

I use a Stihl rim modded by Homelite410. It was $12 with shipping. There is no 3/8lp rim for the echo small spline setup that I could find.


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## Wow (Mar 20, 2018)

James Miller said:


> View attachment 640864
> I use a Stihl rim modded by Homelite410. It was $12 with shipping. There is no 3/8lp rim for the echo small spline setup that I could find.


Maybe an Echo part that fits another model Echo would fit the 490?


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## Colt Marlington (Nov 21, 2019)

This is quite an old thread. But.... I read through the whole thing.

Been contemplating my overabundance of saws in the 42 to 50cc category. And after reading all this, nothing has changed. It all comes down to what I have that feels best in my hands and what I can sell and come out farthest ahead financially. They'll all cut and get there eventually, and faster than my most used 35cc saw.

I had the 490 that I bought a year ago from a pawn shop that had a half dozen new in the box and were dying to sell one when I walked in the door. They practically forced it on me, and I didn't have a good 50cc saw at the time. I used this saw half a dozen or so times. Probably filled it six or seven times also. Mild muffler mod and pulled the caps to fatten it a bit. Sounded good and it cut good enough. And pulled the 20" chain that came on it adequately. Not a speed demon but torquey enough to bury the bar if you let it work at it's own pace.
Then bought the used 421 at another pawn shop. Then the 491s at another.
And then the beautiful 545.
After buying the 545, I sold the 490 for a small profit.

I really love the look of the 545 and the idea of the new looking semi-pro Husky. But the angled bar doesn't feel right to me. And I don't want to scratch it. And the saw feels long in my hands. Also came with a 20" 3/8 b&c that I'd want to change if I kept it. But seems like a waste of money when someone else would be happy with it like it is.
And the 491 has the handlebar angle that fits me better and the 18" .325 b&c that I prefer(for balance), along with an extra brand new chain.

And there's not as much profit in selling the Shindaiwa that nobody's ever heard of. Same goes for the Dolmar 421. So I practically have to keep them.
Plus I can mod and abuse them without any guilt.
So in this case, the red Echo, and the Dolmar, are the saws of choice for me.

Might try and make an aluminum handlebar for the 491s. Cause I'm cheap like that. Or just buy one maybe. I really do think this would improve the saw a lot, even if just in my mind.
Muffler mod for sure. Because I like the way it sounds.
Some blue or black paint here or there might increase it's status.
And maybe an SS center cap sticker trimmed on one edge.

If someone wants to race, I'll just have to grab a bigger saw.


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## buttercup (Nov 22, 2019)

Shouldn't the question be Husqvarna 550xp or Echo cs-501 ?


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## Colt Marlington (Nov 22, 2019)

buttercup said:


> Shouldn't the question be Husqvarna 550xp or Echo cs-501 ?


I don't think there was a 501P when this question was asked.


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## buttercup (Nov 22, 2019)

Ahh... but there is now right?


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## buttercup (Nov 22, 2019)

You want a 4,7kg saw... whats your options? Or you want a 3kw saw, whats your options?


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## Colt Marlington (Nov 22, 2019)

buttercup said:


> You want a 4,7kg saw... whats your options? Or you want a 3kw saw, whats your options?


Or.... Do I want to spend $650 on one brand new pro saw....or $300 for TWO used semi-pro saws? 
I chose the latter with the German bench built 421 and the 491s.

If I had someone to help me use them, then my two old semi-pro saws would smoke the brand new pro saw. Or if for some reason one saw was put out of service, then you shut down for however long with the one pro saw or keep motoring along with my second semi-pro saw and three fitty in my pocket still.

Of course everyone doesn't have the time or opportunity to find two good saws for that deal. But there's usually some other options available for most.
And I can certainly understand buying either a brand new or lightly used pro saw if that's what you want or need.


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