# Ford Super Duty with the 5.4L



## KMB (Dec 1, 2009)

Anybody use a Ford Super Duty with the 5.4L engine to haul firewood or pull a trailer for firewood? How does it do?

Kevin


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## wdchuck (Dec 1, 2009)

We acquired a 2001 with 211,000 miles on it. 

F250 SC(for the kids) short box, 4x4, automatic, 4.10 gears. 

With a set of trailer brakes, it's pretty capable to bring home alot of wood.

I'm considering a flat bed that dumps for this truck, even though its a single rear wheel, it gets into tighter places than the 1-ton, and fits the kids/gear, and 2/3cord of firewood.

Then get rid of this one ton, and wait for a 4x4 f450 supercab with 10' flatbed dump.


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## injun joe (Dec 1, 2009)

i would say with a 5.4l a little small but then again we have been using a little white chevy to haul wood.


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## KMB (Dec 1, 2009)

wdchuck said:


> We acquired a 2001 with 211,000 miles on it.
> 
> F250 SC(for the kids) short box, 4x4, automatic, 4.10 gears.
> 
> With a set of trailer brakes, it's pretty capable to bring home alot of wood.



Thanks. That's the info I like to see (gears, box size, transmission and so on). I've been browsing Autotrader online and doing some research on what my next truck will be after I sell my current truck and finish paying for the family wagon.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 1, 2009)

injun joe said:


> i would say with a 5.4l a little small but then again we have been using a little white chevy to haul wood.



I would think gearing would play a big part. I just want my next truck to be the right truck to pull a cord of green Oak minimum (with some in the box) properly.

Kevin


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## wdchuck (Dec 1, 2009)

If you go later.....2002 I think......the 5.4 was more powerful.

2001 though, the seat belt dinger, just push the red release on the receiver while the dinger is going off, and its quiet from then on.


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## slipknot91 (Dec 1, 2009)

I have a 2002 F 150 with the 5.4. Same motor that is in the Superduty. Only thing you need to watch out for is the spark plugs blowing out of the heads. Pre 2003 models only have two valve heads and only 2 1/2 to 3 threads holding the plugs in. Get the motor under alot of load and start to detonate from bad fuel then you will be in trouble.

I pulled a heavy ass Mustang GT home on a 24ft car hauler 500 miles at speeds over 65 with no problems. 135K miles on it at the time and never had any issues with the truck the 3 years I have owned it. I have the towing package on mine with a big tranny cooler and brake controller. I lack the 4.10 gearing though. Mine is 3.55. After all, it is just a super cab lariat.


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## wdchuck (Dec 1, 2009)

KMB said:


> I would think gearing would play a big part. I just want my next truck to be the right truck to pull a cord of green Oak minimum (with some in the box) properly.
> 
> Kevin










Okay, so it isn't oak, but the dump trailer was 6-1/2 x 12' with 24" metal sides, and the truck was loaded tight also. 

Yes, there were 3"wide straps holding the load in multiple places, and the ride home was pretty smooth.


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## slinger (Dec 1, 2009)

Mines an 05 F250 w/ 5speed Torqshift auto trans. Pull 12,500# Backhoe and trailer. 

Does OK for a 330 cubic inch engine LOL. If you want to pass a Camaro Going up hill get an oil burner...

If you're going to occasionally haul big loads does OK. I only get 9-10 MPG empty or loaded.

Brakes and a good brake controller are essential. I got the integrated TOW Command system and it works good.

I think I ordered 3:73's with limited slip.... truck weighs 6600# empty 

The tranny makes the difference.

Oh yeah - This thing rides like a hay-rack rough!!!


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## KMB (Dec 1, 2009)

wdchuck said:


> Okay, so it isn't oak, but the dump trailer was 6-1/2 x 12' with 24" metal sides, and the truck was loaded tight also.
> 
> Yes, there were 3"wide straps holding the load in multiple places, and the ride home was pretty smooth.



I can't really tell from the pic, but does the hind end squat very much with the trailer loaded?

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 1, 2009)

slinger said:


> Mines an 05 F250 w/ 5speed Torqshift auto trans. Pull 12,500# Backhoe and trailer.
> 
> Does OK for a 330 cubic inch engine LOL. If you want to pass a Camaro Going up hill get an oil burner...
> 
> ...



Good info, thanks. I might have to change my future line of thought. 

Kevin


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## Streblerm (Dec 1, 2009)

I have had 3 different 3/4 ton 4WD Super Dutys for work over the years. Unfortunately I am being downsized to a Fusion Each SD had a 5.4. I used to haul an 8000# trailer with no brakes 

:jawdrop::jawdrop::jawdrop: 

Scary, I know. I had 3.73 and 4.11s. Currently I have the six speed auto with 3.73s, but I have had both 4 and 5 spd autos. Each one of them pulled and stopped the trailer with no drama. I had one 5.4L f-150 that pulled it just fine but stopping was another issue.

Power is fine with that load, and I would assume for more than you could safely or legally pull.

1 cord of soaking wet red oak in the bed doesn't even put it on both ends of the helpers, and power wise you can't tell its there. I am forbidden from pulling a personal trailer with the company vehicle, but if I wasn't you can bet I would pull a trailer loaded with the bed loaded too. I think the 5.4 is really an under rated engine. 

I get around 15 MPG unloaded and more like 9-10 fully loaded. You won't win any races with a heavy load, but it will get you where you need to go.


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## KMB (Dec 1, 2009)

From some specs I found on 2002 Super Duty's from Ford.

Max. trailer weights, auto transmission:

5.4L, F250 4x4, SC, 3.73 gears - 7100 lbs (same for the F350, SC, SRW)
5.4L, F250 4x4, SC, 4.10 gears - 8600 lbs (same for the F350, SC, SRW)

5.4L, F250 4x4, CC, 3.73 gears - 6900 lbs (same for the F350, CC, SRW)
5.4L, F250 4x4, CC, 4.10 gears - 8400 lbs (same for the F350, CC, SRW)

6.8L, F250 4x4, SC, 3.73 gears - 10500 lbs (same for the F350, SC, SRW)
6.8L, F250 4x4, SC, 4.30 gears - 12500 lbs (same for the F350, SC, SRW)

6.8L, F250 4x4, CC, 3.73 gears - 10300 lbs (same for the F350, CC, SRW)
6.8L, F250 4x4, CC, 4.30 gears - 12500 lbs (same for the F350, CC, SRW)

Payload:

F250, 4x4, SC, long bed, 2585 lbs
F250, 4x4, CC, long bed, 2390 lbs

F350, 4x4, SRW, SC, long bed, 3690 lbs
F350, 4x4, SRW, CC, long bed, 3495 lbs

I have thought that a Super Duty 6.8L, F350, 4x4, SRW, CC, 3.73, long bed would be a good replacement for my 1997 4.6L, F150, 4x4, SC, 3.55, short bed for proper firewood duties and other truck duties. BUT, from what I'm reading here a Super Duty 5.4L, F250, 4.10 (long bed, 4x4, CC) might be all that I need...not want . I want to make the right choice when the time comes cause the next truck will have to last me for a long time. And I want to be a little 'over gunned' in case the need arises.

Kevin


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## slinger (Dec 1, 2009)

Don't get me wrong this truck handles heavy loads OK. If you are going to use it as a regular load hauler. Get a oil burner or big gasser and a F350 or 450 suspension. :greenchainsaw:

Mines fine for occasional hauling.

Stopping and handling the load more important to me. Brakes on both trailer axles and keeping the GVW under the max on the trailer make stopping it no problem.

I'm usually a little heavy on the overall GVW w Illinois D tags but I try not to get too crazy LOL!

2005 was the furst ear for the 3 valve Triton 5.4. They are a liitle more snappy than earlier 5.4's.


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## wdchuck (Dec 1, 2009)

That photo doesn't really show the grade of the land, the rig is pointed uphill. The only time it squats, is when there is 2/3cord of split wood in the bed and #10K on the 20' trailer. Even then, load it smartly and it isn't an issue. The stock brakes are surprisingly capable, but electric trailer brakes are the only way to roll. 

The hitch insert configuration, raising the ball height when you have a heavy bed load and a trailer, can help with keeping things more level, just remember to pull it out before you drop the tailgate. 

12.5 -13.0 mpg city/errands
17 highway to gtg's. 

A neighbor has the V10, standard cab, long bed, and 8mpg loaded or empty is a serious drag in my opinion. His gearing is 4:10. 

A supercab, with longbed is the ideal in my opinion, just get ready for lots of room for turning. 

One other thing to look for, and it could take some doing, make sure you verify it has limited slip. Many of the 4x4 trucks do not have it, and if you go on the FORD Truck website and poke around the forum, you'll find plenty of information to help you find just what you are looking for. 

You should see what gooseneck trailers allow you haul.......


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## stihlcrazy20 (Dec 1, 2009)

my dad has a 99 F350 long bed extended cab with the v10. it will pull anything and it has 260,000 miles on it. only thing is ford heads on a v10 suck. we blew plugs out left and right until we bought aftermarket cast aluminum heads runs like a dream. constantly pulls a bobcat 763 with forks, bucket, and sweeper attachments. but then i also have a custom made triple axle 18' car trailer.


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## KMB (Dec 1, 2009)

wdchuck said:


> That photo doesn't really show the grade of the land, the rig is pointed uphill. The only time it squats, is when there is 2/3cord of split wood in the bed and #10K on the 20' trailer. Even then, load it smartly and it isn't an issue. The stock brakes are surprisingly capable, but electric trailer brakes are the only way to roll.
> 
> The hitch insert configuration, raising the ball height when you have a heavy bed load and a trailer, can help with keeping things more level, just remember to pull it out before you drop the tailgate.
> 
> ...



The 8 mpg for the 6.8L V10 would be rough. Your gas mileage for your 5.4L with 4.10 gears would work for me. Realistically, my hauling and pulling is 'occasional'. I would want decent gas mileage for running into town when my wife is using the other vehicle, camping trips, into town with the family to get an appliance or material and so on.

Hind end squatting could be handled with Timbren springs.

I like space, so I think a crewcab (long bed) would suit me better...but it makes for a looonngg truck.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 1, 2009)

stihlcrazy20 said:


> my dad has a 99 F350 long bed extended cab with the v10. it will pull anything and it has 260,000 miles on it. only thing is ford heads on a v10 suck. we blew plugs out left and right until we bought aftermarket cast aluminum heads runs like a dream. constantly pulls a bobcat 763 with forks, bucket, and sweeper attachments. but then i also have a custom made triple axle 18' car trailer.



For the record, what gears is he running, and is it 4x4 or 2wd. Also what kind of gas mileage does he get.

Kevin


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## stihlcrazy20 (Dec 1, 2009)

i dont know off hand what gears he is running but empty i can get about 15mpg hwy and about 12mpg fully loaded down. it is a 4wd but if you need to pull something it will do it, its also the single rear wheel not dually. and has the 4 door with 8' bed. rides so smooth we call it the caddy


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## DavesDD2500HD (Dec 1, 2009)

I had a 2004 F250 Superduty crew cab, short bed 4x4 with the V10. I got 12-13 mpg on the highway when empty. I had the 3.73 differential gears. 

It was a good pulling truck, but did like the gas stations. Traded it for a 2004 Chevy 2500HD CC, SB 4x4 with the Duramax. Way more power and got 17-18 mpg on the highway. Loved that truck. I have a 2005 2500HD CC SB 4x4 6.0 gasser now and it gets 13-14 mpg on the highway.

I haven't driven a 5.4L Superduty to know how they pull. I bet it will do a fine job for the occasional heavy tow.


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## Slick (Dec 1, 2009)

I just went through this, upgraded from a ranger that I pulled way to much stuff with so when I hear people saying a 250 with a 5.4 won't pull some stuff I laugh  I ended up with a 250 with a V10...I don't know how guys are getting 8mpg loaded or empty but most guys get 12-14 empty and 10-12 loaded but could be less depending what your hauling. If anyone is getting under 10mpg all the time I'd suggest having your brakes checked especially the rear they are known to stick and drag....I looked at a 350 with a v10, took it to a buddies garage before I bought and he found that both rear brakes were dragging and almost red hot from a 15 minute drive to the shop...that's not good for mpg  He said something gets rusted and doesn't slide....

Look around on the ford forums, most guys say a 250 with a 5.4 will tow whatever you want, I only got the v10 because it's what I happened to find used. I wanted a 5.4 in either a 250 or 150 but if your really hauling the rear springs in the 250 are a huge jump up from a 150.


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## KMB (Dec 1, 2009)

Good info fella's. Thanks.

Kevin


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## OnlyHomelites (Dec 1, 2009)

Since I'm a Chevy guy I may be a bit biased, but my 2001 Extened cab long bed 1500 w/the 5.3L is a far stronger rig than the 2002 F-350 Regular cab with the 5.4L that I use at work. The 5.4l might be reliable enough, but it's gutless with a load on it. I towed a 3000Lb trailer with the F-350 and it was all it could do to hold highway speed on a moderate grade.


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 1, 2009)

KMB said:


> The 8 mpg for the 6.8L V10 would be rough. Your gas mileage for your 5.4L with 4.10 gears would work for me. Realistically, my hauling and pulling is 'occasional'. I would want decent gas mileage for running into town when my wife is using the other vehicle, camping trips, into town with the family to get an appliance or material and so on.
> 
> Hind end squatting could be handled with Timbren springs.
> 
> ...



I'm in a Super Duty but it's not a truck. It's an Excursion. 4x4, V10, 4.30:1 gears. Pulls like a champ. 7.5 - 8.5 mpg pulling up to 14k lbs, about 9 mpg pulling 7,000 - 8,000 lbs, 11-12 empty in town, and about 13 hwy empty.

It will pull anything you want to put behind it. I had it on the scale at the saw mill at 32,620 lbs!

All in all, I think I'd rather have the V10 instead of the 5.4 and I'd get as much gear as you can find. 4.10:1 or 4.30:1 for any amount of towing.

Here's you some pictures:


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## John D (Dec 2, 2009)

KMB, do some research on fuel economy,as the numbers being posted here for the 5.4 are accurate,however,I have several friends with the V10 Ford triton,and it is actually better on fuel than the 5.4 triton in 75% of the driving conditions.The only place a 5.4 gets better mpg than a V10 is stop and go driving,empty.As soon as your towing or hauling heavy in the bed,or running highway the V10 does better on fuel.The 5.4 will haul anything you want,but if your towing over 7000lbs or any full height enclosed trailer,the V10 is going to be much moire enjoyable to drive,as the 5.4 does not have a lot of torque for the size truck it is in,the super duty is a heavy truck,with a big frontal area,in a 4x4 supercab,it almost needs a v10 .
I am also reading the tow capacity chart with interest,as my 2001 GMC 2500HD has a noticeably higher tow rating than the super dutys with the v8 or v10.I have the 8.1 allison w 3.73 and im pretty sure my tow rating is 12,600lbs or higher,and the trucks w 4.10 have a 15,000 lb tow rating....youd think the Super duty v10 truck would be rated very close to with the GM.


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## wood4heat (Dec 2, 2009)

What ford truck forum are all of you looking at? 

KMB, are you only interested in Ford? If I were in the market for a gasser I'd be looking for a GMC (Chevy if you must) 2500/3500 with the 6.0. GREAT motor and the tow/haul mode on the trans is awsome! If you're set on Ford would you be interested in diesel? The '95-'97 era F350's are great trucks if you can find a clean one. That's what I was looking for when I came across a sweet deal on a '03 and fell in love.


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 2, 2009)

wood4heat said:


> What ford truck forum are all of you looking at?
> 
> KMB, are you only interested in Ford? If I were in the market for a gasser I'd be looking for a GMC (Chevy if you must) 2500/3500 with the 6.0. GREAT motor and the tow/haul mode on the trans is awsome! If you're set on Ford would you be interested in diesel? The '95-'97 era F350's are great trucks if you can find a clean one. That's what I was looking for when I came across a sweet deal on a '03 and fell in love.



This is where I spend some of my time when I'm not on AS:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php


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## davec (Dec 2, 2009)

This question gets kicked around a TON on a SuperDuty forum I watch. I have an '05 5.4 automatic, Supercab Long box 4wd w /3.73. A lot of people who have the 5.4 are fine with them, as am I. You won't win races up mountains towing or anything, but you'll get there just fine as long as you aren't afraid to rev the engine. The SD gas engines are fairly high revvers for truck engines.

The year makes a big difference. Starting in '05 they went to the 3V gas engines and the newer front end that uses coil springs instead of leafs. This helps turning radius a lot, I'm told, but I haven't experienced the leaf version. The 3V engine was a big power boost over the earlier 2V version. The new 3V is almost as powerful as the old V10 was (2V). '05 also gets you the much raved about Torqshift 5spd automatic tranny. Head and shoulders better than the previous 4spd is the consensus there too. Early '05's had a design flaw in the tranny that caused cracked cases from a snap ring shifting around, but they fixed it and most of them were repaired under warranty. You'll want to check that if you get an 05 but don't worry 06+.

If I were you I would look for either a V10 or a V8 in the '05+ lines. People who tow or haul a lot say the V10 doesn't seem to be much worse on gas as it gets worked a bit less hard. Everyone who has the V10 raves about it bigtime. The V8 will work fine, but I wouldn't turn away a good truck with the V10. The other reason is that some 70%+ of SD's came with the diesel, so finding gas engines can be tough - take it when you find a good one. The higher gears 4.10 will help the 5.4 a lot, but probably aren't as important with the V10 .

If you are going to tow a lot, get one with the integrated trailer brake controller (another reason to go '05+)

One final point - there is almost ZERO difference between a 250 and 350. Everything on the trucks are the same with the exception that they put a 4" spacer block under the rear leafs on the 350 and a 2" on the 250, so the 350 can use a bit more of the springs. Other than that there is supposedly a different spline count on a drive shaft and then the all important door sticker GVWR as the only other differences. This is also a frequent topic on that forum...

And yes they ride like hay wagons. Especially empty.

HTH
-Dave


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 2, 2009)

davec said:


> This question gets kicked around a TON on a SuperDuty forum I watch. I have an '05 5.4 automatic, Supercab Long box 4wd w /3.73. A lot of people who have the 5.4 are fine with them, as am I. You won't win races up mountains towing or anything, but you'll get there just fine as long as you aren't afraid to rev the engine. The SD gas engines are fairly high revvers for truck engines.
> 
> The year makes a big difference. Starting in '05 they went to the 3V gas engines and the newer front end that uses coil springs instead of leafs. This helps turning radius a lot, I'm told, but I haven't experienced the leaf version. The 3V engine was a big power boost over the earlier 2V version. The new 3V is almost as powerful as the old V10 was (2V). '05 also gets you the much raved about Torqshift 5spd automatic tranny. Head and shoulders better than the previous 4spd is the consensus there too. Early '05's had a design flaw in the tranny that caused cracked cases from a snap ring shifting around, but they fixed it and most of them were repaired under warranty. You'll want to check that if you get an 05 but don't worry 06+.
> 
> ...



Most that I've read say that 4.30:1 (or the 4.10:1) gears should be had even with the V10 for towing over about 8k - 9k lbs or a tall travel trailer.

The poor Excursion never got any of those updates in 05. Ford already knew it was killing it and just kept using the 4R100 tranny and the 2V V10 and the leaf springs in front. They did give it the newer front grill in 05.

I also don't think the integrated brake controller is that big of a deal. Sure, it's nice but a Tekonsha Prodigy works great and can be found for about $50. (That's excatly what I just paid for one off ebay including shipping.)


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## builder1101 (Dec 2, 2009)

wdchuck said:


> You should see what gooseneck trailers allow you haul.......




mmmm 5th wheels....
just they eat up bed space...but they handle like a dream since the weight is on top of the axle instead of 5ft behind it....and alllows for a pup trailer since the 1st trailers hitch doesn't counter-sway the truck's turning direction....


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## gwiley (Dec 2, 2009)

When my little Ford Ranger got run over by a road grader I picked up a used state work truck, 1995 F350 4x4 crew cab with 90K miles for $3,000. This is one of the most awesome vehicles I have had the pleasure to use. Without adding panels to the sides I couldn't get enough wood in it to make it feel like it was working 

The key is to watch for state/municipal auctions - their work trucks tend to get retired long before they need to (just look it over carefully before bidding).

My next truck is something like this:

http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySection/6x6 Trucks/31.html

For some reason my wife just doesn't see the beauty in it as much as I do.


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## Alan Smith (Dec 2, 2009)

*wife*

For some reason my wife just don't see the beauty in it as much as I do. 
__________________
i understand what you say Alan


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## KMB (Dec 2, 2009)

wood4heat said:


> What ford truck forum are all of you looking at?
> 
> KMB, are you only interested in Ford? If I were in the market for a gasser I'd be looking for a GMC (Chevy if you must) 2500/3500 with the 6.0. GREAT motor and the tow/haul mode on the trans is awsome! If you're set on Ford would you be interested in diesel? The '95-'97 era F350's are great trucks if you can find a clean one. That's what I was looking for when I came across a sweet deal on a '03 and fell in love.



If my research is right, 2001 was the first year for the GM 6.0L and it does have some good trailer towing specs with the standard 4.10 gears.



davec said:


> This question gets kicked around a TON on a SuperDuty forum I watch. I have an '05 5.4 automatic, Supercab Long box 4wd w /3.73. A lot of people who have the 5.4 are fine with them, as am I. You won't win races up mountains towing or anything, but you'll get there just fine as long as you aren't afraid to rev the engine. The SD gas engines are fairly high revvers for truck engines.
> 
> The year makes a big difference. Starting in '05 they went to the 3V gas engines and the newer front end that uses coil springs instead of leafs. This helps turning radius a lot, I'm told, but I haven't experienced the leaf version. The 3V engine was a big power boost over the earlier 2V version. The new 3V is almost as powerful as the old V10 was (2V). '05 also gets you the much raved about Torqshift 5spd automatic tranny. Head and shoulders better than the previous 4spd is the consensus there too. Early '05's had a design flaw in the tranny that caused cracked cases from a snap ring shifting around, but they fixed it and most of them were repaired under warranty. You'll want to check that if you get an 05 but don't worry 06+.
> 
> ...



Again, if my research is right, with the increased hp and torque of the 5.4L in 2005, Ford also increased the trailer towing specs.

Kevin


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## DavesDD2500HD (Dec 2, 2009)

For GM, the 6.0 gas came out in the 1999 model year on the GMT-800 platform (1999- early 2007 model years). The 1999 and 2000 with the 6.0 were the 2500 (not the 2500HD). The 2500 is has a GVW of 8600lbs.

In 2001 model year, the HD series came out so you could get a 1500HD, 2500HD or 3500 with the 6.0. The 2500 was still around as well (I had a 2002). The 2500HD upped the GVW to 9200 lbs.

In the 2500HD and 3500 series trucks, you can also get a 8.1L gas with the Allison tranny (auto) or ZF6 (6 speed manual). There is also the Duramax Diesel with the Allison or ZF6.

Rear gears for the above trucks are 3.73 or 4.10s.

The current body style started in the middle of the 2007 model year under the GMT-900 platform. There is no 1500HD or 2500. The 2500HD and 3500 only have the 6.0 gas or 6.6 Duramax for engines. 

Hope this helps. I'm a GM man and have owned a decent variety of the GMT-800 trucks. I don't know much about Dodge, but I'm sure there are some on this site that can help with info there if you are interested.


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## KMB (Dec 2, 2009)

DavesDD2500HD said:


> For GM, the 6.0 gas came out in the 1999 model year on the GTM-800 platform (1999- early 2007 model years). The 1999 and 2000 with the 6.0 were the 2500 (not the 2500HD). The 2500 is has a GVW of 8600lbs.
> 
> In 2001 model year, the HD series came out so you could get a 1500HD, 2500HD or 3500 with the 6.0. The 2500 was still around as well (I had a 2002). The 2500HD upped the GVW to 9200 lbs.
> 
> ...



Thanks for clearing it up for me and correcting my post about when the 6.0L came out.

Kevin


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## STANG302 (Dec 2, 2009)

I have a cousin that has well over 200K miles on his 03 F250. And has never had a problem pulling anything he hooked up to. The only problem that I know of with them. Is on the early 4.6, 5.4, v10 heads had issues with spitting out spark plugs. On later models I don't think its an issue. 

My opinion on Heavy duty trucks is to buy the bigest you can afford. I personaly would never by a 3/4 ton. Cause most likely you will try towing the same loads as a one ton and be on the edge of being legal. So just find a 1-ton and be done with it. If your looking for used trucks there are tons of used deisels out there. I'd sugest finding a 96-03 F350 7.3l powerstroke. There try'd and true and you can't go wrong with them. 6.0's have a bad wrap but for the most part they are an exclent engine. And more people have not had any problems with them than those who did. Mines an 04 w/160K miles and am just starting to have my first issue, bad injectors. Normal problem for any deisel.


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 2, 2009)

STANG302 said:


> I have a cousin that has well over 200K miles on his 03 F250. And has never had a problem pulling anything he hooked up to. The only problem that I know of with them. Is on the early 4.6, 5.4, v10 heads had issues with spitting out spark plugs. On later models I don't think its an issue.
> 
> My opinion on Heavy duty trucks is to buy the bigest you can afford. I personaly would never by a 3/4 ton. Cause most likely you will try towing the same loads as a one ton and be on the edge of being legal. So just find a 1-ton and be done with it. If your looking for used trucks there are tons of used deisels out there. I'd sugest finding a 96-03 F350 7.3l powerstroke. There try'd (They're tried) and true and you can't go wrong with them. 6.0's have a bad wrap but for the most part they are an exclent engine. And more people have not had any problems with them than those who did. Mines an 04 w/160K miles and am just starting to have my first issue, bad injectors. Normal problem for any deisel.



Well, I would hope there are more without problems than with. :monkey:

The fact is that there are MANY, MANY 6 leakers, er I mean 6 litres that have problems. Many more so than any other super duty engine. The dealerships love that engine. It keeps their diesel mechs employed. lol


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## KMB (Dec 2, 2009)

DavesDD2500HD said:


> For GM, the 6.0 gas came out in the 1999 model year on the GMT-800 platform (1999- early 2007 model years). The 1999 and 2000 with the 6.0 were the 2500 (not the 2500HD). The 2500 is has a GVW of 8600lbs.
> 
> In 2001 model year, the HD series came out so you could get a 1500HD, 2500HD or 3500 with the 6.0. The 2500 was still around as well (I had a 2002). The 2500HD upped the GVW to 9200 lbs.
> 
> ...



Do you have an online source for the GM trailer towing and payload specs for the different models and configurations of the HD trucks from 2001 and up? I've found the info I am looking for on the Fords and Dodges, but have very little specific info on the GM's.

Kevin


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## jerryw66 (Dec 2, 2009)

I've got an 03 superduty with the 5.4 and 6 speed, I wouldn't mind alittle more power, but it's not bad, my previous pickup was an 88 f150 with 5.0 and the new one blows it away. It's all about what you expect your truck to be able to do. I love speed and power, but that is what mustangs are for, but they don't haul much wood.


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## KMB (Dec 2, 2009)

jerryw66 said:


> I've got an 03 superduty with the 5.4 and 6 speed, I wouldn't mind alittle more power, but it's not bad, my previous pickup was an 88 f150 with 5.0 and the new one blows it away. It's all about what you expect your truck to be able to do. I love speed and power, but that is what mustangs are for, but they don't haul much wood.



I'm assuming you have the F250. What gears? 4x4 or 2wd? Regular cab, sc or cc? What do you pull with it? Sorry for all the questions...I'm an information junky when I'm doing research .

Kevin


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## DavesDD2500HD (Dec 2, 2009)

KMB said:


> Do you have an online source for the GM trailer towing and payload specs for the different models and configurations of the HD trucks from 2001 and up? I've found the info I am looking for on the Fords and Dodges, but have very little specific info on the GM's.
> 
> Kevin



Kevin,

I did look to see if I still had one of my old pamphlets from the dealership, but I don't. I did find this for the new GMT-900 platform. That is the 2007.5+ trucks with the 6.0L gas or 6.6L diesel in a 2500HD. 

http://www.gmc.com/sierra/2500HD/specsCapabilities.jsp

_You may have to hit the plus sign to expand some of the information._

Here is something for the 2004 trucks. This would generally apply to all the GMT-800 trucks (1999-2007). Towing and payload are near the bottom.

http://www.new-cars.com/2004/chevrolet/chevy-silverado-hd-specs.html


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## injun joe (Dec 2, 2009)

KMB said:


> I would think gearing would play a big part. I just want my next truck to be the right truck to pull a cord of green Oak minimum (with some in the box) properly.
> 
> Kevin



true wow your gunna a hell of a truck but i dont know anything about oak but ill assume its not much heavier wet than cottonwood wet. yeah you'll definitely want something with some good leaf springs and maybe the 1 ton axle.


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## jerryw66 (Dec 2, 2009)

KMB said:


> I'm assuming you have the F250. What gears? 4x4 or 2wd? Regular cab, sc or cc? What do you pull with it? Sorry for all the questions...I'm an information junky when I'm doing research .
> 
> Kevin



sorry, I got interrupted, f250, details, Dark green color, captains seats, sc, 4.10s 4wd, pull lots of different heavy trailers, camper, big vermeer stump cutter, occasionally 13k lb chipper, I run 285 16s, true trac in the rear, 66k miles, never a problem yet. Pulling I usually get 9 ta 10 mpg, 15 empty. The camper is a 25ft travel trailer, it drops the mileage to 8 or slightly less. I wouldn't mind a diesel, love that 6 gear.


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## jerryw66 (Dec 2, 2009)

Kevin, I see you asked about truck forums? I look on the Ford truck enthusiasts forum sometimes to answer questions on all ages of ford trucks, it's the forum for me, when it comes to trucks.


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## davec (Dec 2, 2009)

Lot s of info on tow ratings here:
http://www.trailerlife.com/

-Dave


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## olyman (Dec 2, 2009)

2005 was the furst ear for the 3 valve Triton 5.4. They are a liitle more snappy than earlier 5.4's.[/QUOTE]
me thinks from the experience with them--lots!! more snappy--


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## KMB (Dec 3, 2009)

DavesDD2500HD said:


> Kevin,
> 
> I did look to see if I still had one of my old pamphlets from the dealership, but I don't. I did find this for the new GMT-900 platform. That is the 2007.5+ trucks with the 6.0L gas or 6.6L diesel in a 2500HD.
> 
> ...



Those will do just fine...thank ya! Got'em bookmarked.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 3, 2009)

injun joe said:


> true wow your gunna a hell of a truck but i dont know anything about oak but ill assume its not much heavier wet than cottonwood wet. yeah you'll definitely want something with some good leaf springs and maybe the 1 ton axle.



Depending on the Oak species, a green cord is between 5000 to 6000 lbs.

The trailer I have access to is rated at 7000 lbs. The trailer weighs 1960 lbs. so that leaves me 5040 lbs. for a load. Depending on what truck I eventually get will determine what trailer I might have to buy in the future...if I loose access to the current trailer.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 3, 2009)

jerryw66 said:


> sorry, I got interrupted, f250, details, Dark green color, captains seats, sc, 4.10s 4wd, pull lots of different heavy trailers, camper, big vermeer stump cutter, occasionally 13k lb chipper, I run 285 16s, true trac in the rear, 66k miles, never a problem yet. Pulling I usually get 9 ta 10 mpg, 15 empty. The camper is a 25ft travel trailer, it drops the mileage to 8 or slightly less. I wouldn't mind a diesel, love that 6 gear.



Thanks for the details. Wherever I've read lately, seems like 4.10 gears are the way to go if the 5.4L is in a Super Duty (or with the 6.0L in the GM 2500HD's or with the 5.7L Hemi's in the Dodge 2500's).

Kevin


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 3, 2009)

KMB said:


> Depending on the Oak species, a green cord is between 5000 to 6000 lbs.
> 
> The trailer I have access to is rated at 7000 lbs. The trailer weighs 1960 lbs. so that leaves me 5040 lbs. for a load. Depending on what truck I eventually get will determine what trailer I might have to buy in the future...if I loose access to the current trailer.
> 
> Kevin



If that's all you are going to be pulling, you really don't need much truck. Really, any 1/2 ton would get the job done just fine.


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## KMB (Dec 3, 2009)

jerryw66 said:


> Kevin, I see you asked about truck forums? I look on the Ford truck enthusiasts forum sometimes to answer questions on all ages of ford trucks, it's the forum for me, when it comes to trucks.



Yep, I've been there, and to f150online,fordf150 and ford-trucks.

Kevin


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## wood4heat (Dec 3, 2009)

gr8scott72 said:


> If that's all you are going to be pulling, you really don't need much truck. Really, any 1/2 ton would get the job done just fine.



If you plan on towing anywhere near that much with a 1/2 ton I'd recommend air bags in the rear to keep it from pushing you around. They made a huge difference on my Tahoe.

I'd also like to add it managed to pull around 6,000lb's worth of enclosed trailer but at 104,000 miles the tranny was beginning to slip in third. I never pulled in overdrive. If you're looking primarily for a trailer hauler I'd stick with a 3/4 ton at minimum.


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 3, 2009)

wood4heat said:


> If you plan on towing anywhere near that much with a 1/2 ton I'd recommend air bags in the rear to keep it from pushing you around. They made a huge difference on my Tahoe.



Another great product is Roadmaster Active Suspension. Don't have to change them for different load weights. I'm very happy with them on my Excursion.


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## KMB (Dec 3, 2009)

gr8scott72 said:


> If that's all you are going to be pulling, you really don't need much truck. Really, any 1/2 ton would get the job done just fine.



Right now my truck is a 1997 F150, 4.6L, 3.55, SC, shortbox, 4x4. I have upgraded to heavier duty shocks in the rear and Timbren springs. With a cord of dry Oak on the trailer I mentioned, the back end is sitting very firmly on the Timbrens. The truck is rated to 6600 lbs. of trailer weight...maybe with a weight distribution hitch system to keep the hind end up. I get by with the 4.6L, but the 5.4L would be better I know. 

I want 'more' truck because in the future, if I have to go a distance to get wood, I want to haul more of it in one trip...which also means getting a higher rated trailer (8K or 10K) or use the trailer I mentioned and put a good load in the bed. If I sell a couple cords of firewood, it would be nice to deliver both at one time. 

Then there's trips like I took last Fall where I pulled a trailer with 2 4wheelers, a bed load of camping gear, ice chests, some firewood, and 2 of my buddies and the son of one buddy. We got into some pretty good sized hills in the Quachita Mountains and the 4.6L was struggling a little. And yes, I was out of overdrive. My tires are 2 sizes bigger than stock, so that doesn't help either.

I also would want a crew cab and long box. I haven't looked at 1/2 ton specs. I thought I would have to go at least with a 3/4 ton to get all that I would want.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 3, 2009)

davec said:


> Lot s of info on tow ratings here:
> http://www.trailerlife.com/
> 
> -Dave



Thanks for the link.

Kevin


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## wood4heat (Dec 3, 2009)

My Tahoe and trailer. It's a '99 with the 5.7L, 4" lift with 285/75 16's. I added a B&M tranny cooler, slotted rotors with Bear twin piston calipers and rear airbags. This was taken before the airbags and you can see it squatted a little. It could use more power but actually pulled pretty well in third. I'm sure the tranny could have been made to handle it and I could have got more power out of it but by the time you do all that you've spent more than if you had just bought the right truck to start with. And it's still only a 1/2 ton. It's a great truck for what it is though.


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## John D (Dec 3, 2009)

KMB said:


> Depending on the Oak species, a green cord is between 5000 to 6000 lbs.
> 
> The trailer I have access to is rated at 7000 lbs. The trailer weighs 1960 lbs. so that leaves me 5040 lbs. for a load. Depending on what truck I eventually get will determine what trailer I might have to buy in the future...if I loose access to the current trailer.
> 
> Kevin



The 7K trailer is a good start,but you'll want a beefier trailer down the road.I have a 9900GVWR 18ft flatbed trailer,and a 7x14 14K dump,I easily load both to the limit with oak,and could fit more,esp log length loads.1 5000load is 2 logs 18ft long oak rounds for me when hauling loads.I haul as many as i can safely get on until the tires start to mushroom with 90psi in them.Im sure you know wood is very heavy,and if you have an f250/350 you can easily carry way more.
im looking myself for a 14k flatbed trailer,about 20-24' long to replace my 9900.


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## KMB (Dec 3, 2009)

wood4heat said:


> *And it's still only a 1/2 ton.* It's a great truck for what it is though.



My point also for my 1/2 ton. I forgot to add that I added a tranny cooler about 7 years ago before I made the 2200+ mile trip from 'home' to where I am now in the south. I pulled a loaded 16' tandem axle U-Haul trailer (4400 lbs. if I remember correctly) from Edmonton, AB, Canada to Tuscon, AZ (to be part of a good friends wedding). From there it was across to Arkansas. Of course I stayed out of OD, and kept the RPM's to about 2200, resulting in speeds of 50-55 mph...I know, it was a long trip. But it was the only vehicle I owned, and didn't want to kill it, and money was (and still is ) tight.

BTW, nice looking Tahoe.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 3, 2009)

John D said:


> The 7K trailer is a good start,but you'll want a beefier trailer down the road.I have a 9900GVWR 18ft flatbed trailer,and a 7x14 14K dump,I easily load both to the limit with oak,and could fit more,esp log length loads.1 5000load is 2 logs 18ft long oak rounds for me when hauling loads.I haul as many as i can safely get on until the tires start to mushroom with 90psi in them.Im sure you know wood is very heavy,and if you have an f250/350 you can easily carry way more.
> im looking myself for a 14k flatbed trailer,about 20-24' long to replace my 9900.



Thanks for another good reason why I at least want a 3/4 ton. When I can get into 'more' truck, I think a 10K trailer would be realistic for me and what I plan to use it for in regards to my firewood duties. I wouldn't need the 10K rating all the time, but when the need arrived, I would have the capability. I'm sure that after I get my 'ideal' truck and trailer combo, there will be something to haul that I would want even 'more' truck and trailer...and on it goes .

Kevin


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## headleyj (Dec 3, 2009)

davec said:


> This question gets kicked around a TON on a SuperDuty forum I watch. I have an '05 5.4 automatic, Supercab Long box 4wd w /3.73. A lot of people who have the 5.4 are fine with them, as am I. You won't win races up mountains towing or anything, but you'll get there just fine as long as you aren't afraid to rev the engine. The SD gas engines are fairly high revvers for truck engines.
> 
> The year makes a big difference. Starting in '05 they went to the 3V gas engines and the newer front end that uses coil springs instead of leafs. This helps turning radius a lot, I'm told, but I haven't experienced the leaf version. The 3V engine was a big power boost over the earlier 2V version. The new 3V is almost as powerful as the old V10 was (2V). '05 also gets you the much raved about Torqshift 5spd automatic tranny. Head and shoulders better than the previous 4spd is the consensus there too. Early '05's had a design flaw in the tranny that caused cracked cases from a snap ring shifting around, but they fixed it and most of them were repaired under warranty. You'll want to check that if you get an 05 but don't worry 06+.
> 
> ...




nailed it.


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## jerryw66 (Dec 3, 2009)

KMB said:


> Thanks for the details. Wherever I've read lately, seems like 4.10 gears are the way to go if the 5.4L is in a Super Duty (or with the 6.0L in the GM 2500HD's or with the 5.7L Hemi's in the Dodge 2500's).
> 
> Kevin



Kev, there's a huge dif between sd 250 and a 150, get a sd and you'll know every bump in the road, but I enjoy every one. Mines got air bags too, I had forgotten about them, they've been maintenance free for me, and I recommend them. Have a 150, and a sd 250, recommend a sd, maybe even 4.30s, I've got blue blood.


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## KMB (Dec 3, 2009)

jerryw66 said:


> Kev, there's a huge dif between sd 250 and a 150, get a sd and you'll know every bump in the road, but I enjoy every one. Mines got air bags too, I had forgotten about them, they've been maintenance free for me, and I recommend them. Have a 150, and a sd 250, recommend a sd, maybe even 4.30s, I've got blue blood.



Yep, I KNOW I'll enjoy at least a 3/4 ton...and I won't care how it rides! 

My reasoning might be off/wrong, but from looking at a bunch of truck specs online, I think I will want a truck that has trailer weight tow rating of at least 10,000lbs. Like I've mentioned in other posts, I want to do my next truck right and be 'over-gunned' if I can afford it (depending on what I will get for my current truck). The next truck will have to last me a long time.

A CC, LB, 4x4 is what I want to get into eventually. So for a Ford, before 2005, a F250 with the 6.8L V10, 3.73 fits the tow rating I would like. 2005 and newer, the 5.4l 3V, 4.10 fits. In the Dodge, 2003 and newer would be what I'm after in the 2500 with the 5.7L HEMI, 4.10. In the Chevy/GMC, from 2001 to 2007, the 2500HD with the 6.0L, 4.10 specs to 9,700lbs. traier wt. and the 8.1L, 3.73 specs to 13,400lbs. trailer wt. From 2007.5, in the 2500HD, the updated 6.0L, 3.73 or 4.10(?) specs to 12,100lbs. trailer wt. (DavesDD2500HD is a GM man...he can clear up any wrong info).

For my 'big' money purchases, I like to research and plan way in advance. So I'll see what happens in the next little while. Thanks for the comments, opinions, suggestions so far...like I have already said before, I'm a info junky, so whatever 'food for thought' is welcome.

Kevin


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## wood4heat (Dec 4, 2009)

KMB said:


> Yep, I KNOW I'll enjoy at least a 3/4 ton...and I won't care how it rides!



I like to feel the road under my truck! Before I lifted that Tahoe it drove like a marshmallow. Just got an F350 and while it's definitely got a firm ride it's far from uncomfortable. Just make sure you find something with a comfortable seat, that will mean far more after a few hours on the road.


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 4, 2009)

KMB said:


> So for a Ford, before 2005, a F250 with the 6.8L V10, 3.73 fits the tow rating I would like.



It might fit the tow rating you are looking for but I really recomend the 4.10:1 or 4.30:1 gears with that truck/motor.


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## KMB (Dec 4, 2009)

gr8scott72 said:


> It might fit the tow rating you are looking for but I really recomend the 4.10:1 or 4.30:1 gears with that truck/motor.



From some 2002 specs I found for the F250, CC, LB, 4x4, V10. 12,500 lbs. trailer wt. with 4.30 and 10,300 lbs. trailer wt. with 3.73 (with these specs, and for specs I've mentioned in other posts have been based on a auto tranny). I don't think I'd ever be pulling 12,500 lbs. of trailer wt., and even though gas mileage is bad period with either axle ratio, 4.30 might be that much more worse over 3.73...I don't know.

Kevin


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## DavesDD2500HD (Dec 4, 2009)

KMB said:


> In the Chevy/GMC, from 2001 to 2007, the 2500HD with the 6.0L, 4.10 specs to 9,700lbs. traier wt. and the 8.1L, 3.73 specs to 13,400lbs. trailer wt. From 2007.5, in the 2500HD, the updated 6.0L, 3.73 or 4.10(?) specs to 12,100lbs. trailer wt. (DavesDD2500HD is a GM man...he can clear up any wrong info).



Kevin,

For the 01-07 2500HD, the trailer tow rating is up to 10,600 for the 6.0 and 12,000 for the 8.1 and Duramax. I didn't see anything specifically about which rear end ratio though. Will keep searching.

Dave


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## KMB (Dec 4, 2009)

wood4heat said:


> *I like to feel the road under my truck!* Before I lifted that Tahoe it drove like a marshmallow. Just got an F350 and while it's definitely got a firm ride it's far from uncomfortable. Just make sure you find something with a comfortable seat, that will mean far more after a few hours on the road.



Yep, but not bone jarring . Good point on a comfortable seat. I've only driven one vehicle so far that to me truly had an uncomfortable seat. It was Jeep Grand Cherokee (2007? model) that I rented one time.

I also like to hear what a engine is doing...but not obnoxiously loud...especially if it's a manual tranny. I also like a tach in a vehicle.

BTW, what are the specs on your F350? What year model?

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 4, 2009)

DavesDD2500HD said:


> Kevin,
> 
> For the 01-07 2500HD, the trailer tow rating is up to 10,600 for the 6.0 and 12,000 for the 8.1 and Duramax. I didn't see anything specifically about which rear end ratio though. Will keep searching.
> 
> Dave



Thanks for that. I got some of my trailer tow rating specs from: http://www.trailerlife.com/ (courtesy of davec), but they do say that their numbers are not always exact and to contact the dealer.

Kevin


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## wood4heat (Dec 4, 2009)

KMB said:


> BTW, what are the specs on your F350? What year model?
> 
> Kevin



It is a 2003 powerstroke. I've only had it for a couple weeks but drove it home from Missoula Mt to Camas WA. (Just outside Portland Or) It was a great truck to drive that distance in, probably better than my wife's Subaru! I've hauled one small load of wood with it and you wouldn't have known it was back there if you didn't look.


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## KMB (Dec 4, 2009)

wood4heat said:


> It is a 2003 powerstroke. I've only had it for a couple weeks but drove it home from Missoula Mt to Camas WA. (Just outside Portland Or) It was a great truck to drive that distance in, probably better than my wife's Subaru! I've hauled one small load of wood with it and you wouldn't have known it was back there if you didn't look.



Nice truck. I'd pester you for details on the truck, but it's a diesel (I like them) and I think a gasser is gonna work out better for me and my wallet.

Kevin


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## wood4heat (Dec 4, 2009)

KMB said:


> Nice truck. I'd pester you for details on the truck, but it's a diesel (I like them) and I think a gasser is gonna work out better for me and my wallet.
> 
> Kevin



Thanks. I'd tell you all I know but I don't have much experience with it yet. It really wasn't what I was looking for but it was a good enough deal I went for it. So far I'm glad I did!


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## clinchscavalry (Dec 4, 2009)

It's about gearing, transmission and suspension; which are all much more important than how powerful the engine is. 

I have a 2004 F-150 4x4 with 5.4 three valve, and the standard 3.55 rear end. The truck has an electric brake controller which, IMHO, is absolutely necessary if you're pulling anything more than an ATV.

Here is a problem I recently had while towing way over the recommended limit. At the time, I didn't have anything heavier duty to tow my JD 2355 with. I have a 5 ton, 18 ft. trailer, and the tractor will fit on it just barely if I take one fender off the trailer. The trailer weighs about 2500 lbs. empty and the tractor and mower weigh close to 10,000 lbs. That's over 12,000 gross, and it's much more than the truck was intended to pull. However, beggers can't be choosers, so I very slowly and carefully moved my tractor several times. The truck pulled it and stopped without issue but I avoided fast starts and stops. However, the last time I moved the rig I noticed the tranny seemed to be slipping. I checked the fluid and, sure enough, it was burned and smelled bad I have, so far, had the fluid changed twice, but on the new Fords you just can't get all the old trans fluid out, so it still looks dark and smells bad. I will keep doing this until it clears up, but it's obvious the drivetrain just can't take that kind of load.

The good news is that the truck is performing perfectly now with no apparent damage to the tranny. I won't pull anything that heavy again, and I just recently got a F-550 with 4.88 rear end, 7.3 powerstroke and auto trans. It has 192,000 miles on it and a tool body/bucket to haul around as well, but it will pull most anything.

My advice is to avoid any "half ton" truck if you are going to haul over 5000 lbs on a regular basis, and, if you get a 3/4 ton be very careful of what rear end ratio it has. I noticed , with horror, that some of the brand new, so-called HD trucks have 3.55 rear ends ! NO GOOD ! Get at least a 3.73 and better yet a 4.10 for pulling. Your truck will perform much better and will last much longer even at the expense of poorer fuel economy.

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## KMB (Dec 4, 2009)

clinchscavalry, good post and advice.

Kevin


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 4, 2009)

KMB said:


> clinchscavalry, good post and advice.
> 
> Kevin



Basically, the same thing I was trying to say. If you're towing and don't have a diesel, get the lowest gearing availabe. Before I got my Excursion, I had my 2000 Dodge Durango beefed up to be able to pull my stump grinder (7,000 lbs with trailer and tools.) I have a rebuilt tranny with shift kit and LARGE cooler, 4.56:1 gears, new tires, Hawk SuperDuty brake pads (THE best for towing.), bilstein shocks, and added leaf spring. That Durango can pull the snot out of that 7,000 lbs. Most of it's ability is from the 4.56:1 gears. It was night and day difference from the stock gears (3.55:1) and only lost about 2 mpg highway when empty. It actually got better while towing. City mileage empty was the same.



gr8scott72 said:


> It might fit the tow rating you are looking for but I really recomend the 4.10:1 or 4.30:1 gears with that truck/motor.


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## davec (Dec 4, 2009)

The point about gears seems to be a common one on the SD forums. The penalty to higher numeric gears (4.10 or 4.30) is minor when unloaded, and not even there when towing. If you can find it, it makes more sense in the long run. With the V10 and your occasional use, I doubt you will care too much. It would be more important with the V8. 

But more important, IMHO is the overal condition of the truck. These are work trucks, and are often abused as such. If you find a nice 3.73, I wouldn't hesistate. You can always upgrade the gears for a couple thou$, if you find it to be an issue.

-Dave


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## KMB (Dec 4, 2009)

gr8scott72 said:


> Basically, the same thing I was trying to say. If you're towing and don't have a diesel, get the lowest gearing availabe. Before I got my Excursion, I had my 2000 Dodge Durango beefed up to be able to pull my stump grinder (7,000 lbs with trailer and tools.) I have a rebuilt tranny with shift kit and LARGE cooler, 4.56:1 gears, new tires, Hawk SuperDuty brake pads (THE best for towing.), bilstein shocks, and added leaf spring. That Durango can pull the snot out of that 7,000 lbs. Most of it's ability is from the 4.56:1 gears. It was night and day difference from the stock gears (3.55:1) *and only lost about 2 mpg highway when empty. It actually got better while towing. City mileage empty was the same.*



That's also some info I was wondering about. Thank ya.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 4, 2009)

davec said:


> The point about gears seems to be a common one on the SD forums. The penalty to higher numeric gears (4.10 or 4.30) is minor when unloaded, and not even there when towing. If you can find it, it makes more sense in the long run. With the V10 and your *occasional use*, I doubt you will care too much. It would be more important with the V8.
> 
> But more important, IMHO is the overal condition of the truck. These are work trucks, and are often abused as such. If you find a nice 3.73, I wouldn't hesistate. You can always upgrade the gears for a couple thou$, if you find it to be an issue.
> 
> -Dave



That is key in my situation. 

Isn't there a saying "Three's the/a charm?"  You're the third member that has emphasized the importance of the right gears. Got it and thanks .

Actually the V10 with 4.30 gears rated to 12,500 lbs. would possibly benefit me for my future plans/dreams. I did some figuring earlier today, and with a certain 12,000 lb. rated trailer, I could have 1 cord plus 2/3 cord on the trailer and 1/3 cord on the truck...delivering/hauling 2 cords at a time. This was figured approx. using Oak at 5500 lbs./cord and the trailer being 18' long and weighing 2560 lbs. empty. I know, I know...I plan/dream big for a small time firewood cutter .

Kevin


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## Lugnutz (Dec 4, 2009)

Ok I know it aint new!! and it aint a SC, but man this thing is a worker..and since we are talkin trucks and showin off our rides I figured I'd share. I've had this beauty since 2001 and got it at a steal for $1800. 

88 f250 5.8L 4x4 with 5spd manual ( granny low and overdrive ). The ac works..roll the windows down ( maually! ) and the heat works..all the time and the fan is rewired to a lighted toggle for high speed only. The radio has been in 3 different vehicles and still goin strong.
The best thing, I don't worry about scratchin it up in the brush!
Modifications include custom paint job and bucket seats with fold down center console from a 94, complete with lumbar adjustment ( I've had this set up for at least 3 years, some day I'll hook up the lumbar part ).


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## KMB (Dec 5, 2009)

Lugnutz said:


> Ok I know it aint new!! and it aint a SC, but man this thing is a worker..and since we are talkin trucks and showin off our rides I figured I'd share. I've had this beauty since 2001 and got it at a steal for $1800.
> 
> 88 f250 5.8L 4x4 with 5spd manual ( granny low and overdrive ). The ac works..roll the windows down ( maually! ) and the heat works..all the time and the fan is rewired to a lighted toggle for high speed only. The radio has been in 3 different vehicles and still goin strong.
> The best thing, I don't worry about scratchin it up in the brush!
> Modifications include custom paint job and bucket seats with fold down center console from a 94, complete with lumbar adjustment ( I've had this set up for at least 3 years, some day I'll hook up the lumbar part ).



That's quite the truck. Built Ford tough! 

Kevin


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## John D (Dec 5, 2009)

KMB,If you plan on hauling a lot of wood,and your actually worried about the actual tow capacity, A 12500 rating is a good start.It really isnt that much,my truck has a 13,100 rating or something around there 8.1/3.73,my Dodge a 13000 rating.with my 14K dump trailer loaded,its about 14000-15000,so im over the rating,and it sure dont look like a lot of wood to me...esp with green oak...The tow rating of my truck with 4.10 gears is 15,100 lbs,so im really not worried about towing a little over for my short trips,and the truck does very well pulling it.IMO,with out of warranty trucks,the tow rating should be thrown out the window for short trips and local roads.The tow rating I use for myself,the practical one, for short trips,and local roads with open trailers esp,I use the highest tow rating offered with the chassis and GVWR of the truck your buying.So in your case even with a 5.4,as long as its in a super duty,Id tow up to the max rating of the diesel,if needed,without concern for safety.It may be sluggish taking off,but IMO,you arent a liability to those around you or yourself.Just go by DOT rules,and you;ll be fine,they dont care about mfg tow ratings.If the 5.4 was in an f150,different story,as now the tow rating is chassis limited,more than power limited.

Youll be working it hard,yes,but just run full synthetic lubricants in the drivetrain,and use common sense,and all will be fine.I use low range to get out of the woods with a 15K load,then switch to high before pulling onto the road.Same for parking in the woods while loading heavy.leave it in low range,its much easier on the park gear in an auto,esp if hte e brakes dont work well.You use your gearing instead of heating the torque convertor for nothing.


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## builder1101 (Dec 5, 2009)

clinchscavalry said:


> It's about gearing, transmission and suspension; which are all much more important than how powerful the engine is.
> 
> I have a 2004 F-150 4x4 with 5.4 three valve, and the standard 3.55 rear end. The truck has an electric brake controller which, IMHO, is absolutely necessary if you're pulling anything more than an ATV.
> 
> ...




manual gear box! i've towed 12k# quite often in overdrive, foot to the floor. Few times 15k#. 373's.... 220k miles later still have yet to find anything on the magnet....

if it's got fluid, your gonna have to be doing some hardcore wild things to tear it up. automatics are so troublesome, and a million things to go wrong...

clutches, pump, 1way bearings, fluid pressures, pistons, check valves, plumbing to the front of the truck for tranny cooling, opens up doors for 'remote' leaks, now thehy're electronic, so now solenoids are in play, digital speedometers, the list continues....

not to mention manual clutches are a fraction of the cost of an automatic rebuild if it's DIY.... I paid less money to buy a clutch then it would cost to have a shop remove an automatic, before repairs! rarely shops will warranty if they rebuild and you remove/install.


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## dustytools (Dec 5, 2009)

Lugnutz said:


> Ok I know it aint new!! and it aint a SC, but man this thing is a worker..and since we are talkin trucks and showin off our rides I figured I'd share. I've had this beauty since 2001 and got it at a steal for $1800.
> 
> 88 f250 5.8L 4x4 with 5spd manual ( granny low and overdrive ). The ac works..roll the windows down ( maually! ) and the heat works..all the time and the fan is rewired to a lighted toggle for high speed only. The radio has been in 3 different vehicles and still goin strong.
> The best thing, I don't worry about scratchin it up in the brush!
> Modifications include custom paint job and bucket seats with fold down center console from a 94, complete with lumbar adjustment ( I've had this set up for at least 3 years, some day I'll hook up the lumbar part ).


Here is a pic of another old work horse. 86 F-150 4X4 with a 300 in front of a 4 speed bulldog tranny. Best $400 I ever spent.View attachment 117039


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## slinger (Dec 5, 2009)

Hauling legal GVW TRUCK + TRAILER LOADS MY '05 SD 5.4 torqshift long bed super cab 2wd limited slip never really lacks for reasonable power. Not a torque monster or an overlly impressive, somethin to brag about truck.

Mine is your basic work truck I bought it new as contractor to work and that's what it really is...a basic work truck.

If I would of had an additional 5400 bucks I would have got the diesel. but what I wound up with is fine.

The GM 3/4 ton trucks I had in the past rode nicer and handled nicer on the road.

This one handles off road better for a 2wd. Stuck alot less than with my Jimmy 2wd.


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## clinchscavalry (Dec 5, 2009)

builder1101 said:


> manual gear box! i've towed 12k# quite often in overdrive, foot to the floor. Few times 15k#. 373's.... 220k miles later still have yet to find anything on the magnet....
> 
> if it's got fluid, your gonna have to be doing some hardcore wild things to tear it up. automatics are so troublesome, and a million things to go wrong...
> 
> ...




 Can't get manual trannys in many new trucks now. My '04 didn't offer one. I agree about the manual transmissions too; that's all I had until they quit making them.

As I said, it's all about the "guts" in a truck. Think about tractors or dozers - relatively little horsepower but everything else is HD. Or muscle cars ? How would a 400 HP Mustang pull a 10,000 trailer ? Not very well I venture


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## John D (Dec 5, 2009)

clinchscavalry said:


> Can't get manual trannys in many new trucks now. My '04 didn't offer one. I agree about the manual transmissions too; that's all I had until they quit making them.
> 
> As I said, it's all about the "guts" in a truck. Think about tractors or dozers - relatively little horsepower but everything else is HD. Or muscle cars ? How would a 400 HP Mustang pull a 10,000 trailer ? Not very well I venture



Yes not many manuals left.The good part is though,the autos today have better gearing,very close ratios with 5 and 6 speed autos,and the transmissions are much heavier duty than those of the past.The reason the manuals aren't offered in part, is the new autos are so strong ,refined,and the gearing spread is equal to or better than the old hand shakers with deep low,so everyone wants the autos,the few who dont dont make it worth offering,as emisisons testing is expensive,and manuals need to be tested separately from auto trucks,which is $$$.


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## KMB (Dec 5, 2009)

builder1101 said:


> manual gear box! i've towed 12k# quite often in overdrive, foot to the floor. Few times 15k#. 373's.... 220k miles later still have yet to find anything on the magnet....
> 
> if it's got fluid, your gonna have to be doing some hardcore wild things to tear it up. automatics are so troublesome, and a million things to go wrong...
> 
> ...





John D said:


> Yes not many manuals left.The good part is though,the autos today have better gearing,very close ratios with 5 and 6 speed autos,and the transmissions are much heavier duty than those of the past.The reason the manuals aren't offered in part, is the new autos are so strong ,refined,and the gearing spread is equal to or better than the old hand shakers with deep low,so everyone wants the autos,the few who dont dont make it worth offering,as emisisons testing is expensive,and manuals need to be tested separately from auto trucks,which is $$$.



A manual tranny would be just fine. In looking online at autotrader.com and cars.com, most of the trucks that interest me are in auto...and tend to be at least a 150 miles away. So when the time comes, I might have to travel a bit to get exactly (or close to) what I want.

Kevin


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## builder1101 (Dec 5, 2009)

clinchscavalry said:


> Can't get manual trannys in many new trucks now. My '04 didn't offer one. I agree about the manual transmissions too; that's all I had until they quit making them.
> 
> As I said, it's all about the "guts" in a truck. Think about tractors or dozers - relatively little horsepower but everything else is HD. Or muscle cars ? How would a 400 HP Mustang pull a 10,000 trailer ? Not very well I venture




few months ago i read somewhere ford is going to discontinue manuals in the 2010 line f150's.... under 1% were ordered in the '09s...i think i have the years correct?

I bet that mustang would show some action before it gave up


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## headleyj (Dec 7, 2009)

most of the general public is lazy....IMO that's why we don't have as many manual trannies as we used to.


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## clinchscavalry (Dec 7, 2009)

What used to be interesting to me when I was shopping for a new truck was that the towing capacities for a half ton pickup were only shown for vehicles equipped with *automatic* transmissions. I remember looking at trucks at far back as '87 and the GMC I bought with four speed, granny gear, manual was not rated for towing at all.

When I questioned the salesman about it, he said the problem was that so many people didn't know how to operate a clutch properly, and when a vehicle took on the extra strain of pulling a trailer the clutch naturally failed with these idiot drivers. Then he went on to say "you should get an automatic if you intend to tow a lot".

I said then what I say now. If an auto is so good at handling heavy loads then whey don't all the 18 wheeler trucks have them ?

It's a warranty issue with the manufacturers, IMHO. They know the normal pickup buyer today can't properly operate a manual tranny, and their number crunchers calculate the extra cost of warranty repairs, so they just offer autos only.

What kills an automatic transmission is starting off with a really heavy load. There's a lot of heat, pressure,slippage and wear, especially if the operator has a lead foot. A word of warning to those of you who put "chips" on these fancy new diesels to get 500 HP. That's fine as long as you don't stress the drive train with jackrabbit starts. All that HP is useless with gears made for considerably less. 

A manual, on the other hand, can be eased off from a standstill with proper technique if a low enough first is available, and there is little wear and tear. Of course, no one needs to get in a big hurry when trailering a heavy load (or no load for that matter). Starting slowly and stopping slowly saves equipment and fuel


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## wood4heat (Dec 7, 2009)

headleyj said:


> most of the general public is lazy....IMO that's why we don't have as many manual trannies as we used to.



It's not about being lazy it's about multitasking, too hard to shift and text at the same time.


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## headleyj (Dec 7, 2009)

clinchscavalry said:


> I said then what I say now. If an auto is so good at handling heavy loads then whey don't all the 18 wheeler trucks have them ?



Exactly. Some new ones are AT's though. driving a stick will be a lost art in a generation or 2 I bet.


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## KMB (Dec 7, 2009)

clinchscavalry said:


> Of course, no one needs to get in a big hurry when trailering a heavy load (or no load for that matter). Starting slowly and stopping slowly saves equipment and fuel



:agree2: +10

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 8, 2009)

gr8scott72 said:


> I'm in a Super Duty but it's not a truck. It's an Excursion. 4x4, V10, 4.30:1 gears. Pulls like a champ. 7.5 - 8.5 mpg pulling up to 14k lbs, about 9 mpg pulling 7,000 - 8,000 lbs, 11-12 empty in town, and about 13 hwy empty.
> 
> It will pull anything you want to put behind it. I had it on the scale at the saw mill at 32,620 lbs!
> 
> All in all, I think I'd rather have the V10 instead of the 5.4 and I'd get as much gear as you can find. 4.10:1 or 4.30:1 for any amount of towing.



I was again thinking about your Excursion with the 4.30 gears and wondering about rpm's in regards to the mph. If you do watch rpm's, what does your Excursion do at 60 mph and up to 70-75 mph?

Kevin


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## builder1101 (Dec 8, 2009)

headleyj said:


> Exactly. Some new ones are AT's though. driving a stick will be a lost art in a generation or 2 I bet.





still i don't think some are true automatics...i may be wrong. i vouch anything with a torque converter is an automatic  maybe it's gonna be classed different....

some of the volvos and mercedes, it's still manual, just the computer does the shifting. In detail, you choose when to shift, computer decides what gear to use. youtube has lots of videos of them in action. Weird though, there's still a stick shift, but push of a button then it's 'automatic'....


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 8, 2009)

KMB said:


> I was again thinking about your Excursion with the 4.30 gears and wondering about rpm's in regards to the mph. If you do watch rpm's, what does your Excursion do at 60 mph and up to 70-75 mph?
> 
> Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 8, 2009)

gr8scott72,

Sooo attt abouttt 6555 itsss turninggg abouttt 2300....

My dial-up might be making the pic look blurrier than it really is...and yes I know it would be hard to get a steady pic as you're _driving_ down the road .

Thanks. I think I've narrowed it down to what to look for in my next truck.

Kevin


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 8, 2009)

KMB said:


> gr8scott72,
> 
> Sooo attt abouttt 6555 itsss turninggg abouttt 2300....
> 
> My dial-up might be making the pic look blurrier than it really is...and yes I know it would be hard to get a steady pic as you're _driving_ down the road .




Dial-up? What's that? opcorn:

No, it's a blurry picture but going 65 mph while trying to get a good picture can be a chore plus it was starting to get dark outside which also leads to blurry pictures with my camera unless held perfectly still.

How's this for a speedo shot:







KMB said:


> Thanks. I think I've narrowed it down to what to look for in my next truck.
> 
> Kevin



V8 or V10 with 4.30:1 gears right?


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## KMB (Dec 8, 2009)

gr8scott72 said:


> Dial-up? What's that? opcorn:
> 
> No, it's a blurry picture but going 65 mph while trying to get a good picture can be a chore plus it was starting to get dark outside which also leads to blurry pictures with my camera unless held perfectly still.
> 
> V8 or V10 with 4.30:1 gears right?



Yep, dial-up. I'm out in the sticks. Can't afford satellite. I'll be giving mobile broadband through Verizon when I'm able.

So what vehicle has that speedo?

Yep, so far the Ford V10 with the 4.30's...F250 or F350, it doesn't matter. As far as some specs I found, the F350 has about 1000 lbs. more payload rating which would mean I could possibly put 2/3 cord in the box.

In shooting for an approx. 12,000 lb. trailer rating, the other big gasser that has my interest is the 2001 (and up) GM V8 8.1L HD. I have read that it drinks more fuel than the V10, 6.8L...I'm sure someone will come along to dispel that.... 

In a Dodge, 2003 ('crew cab' Quad Cab) has the V10 8.0L. Then from 2004 it's gone (from what I found/read) in the 2500, 3500.

It will most likely be the Ford because I will be able to go back as far as 1999 for what I would want.

BTW, do you know if your Excursion has a limited-slip rearend? And do you know how to tell the difference...VIN #?

Kevin


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## John D (Dec 8, 2009)

KMB said:


> In shooting for an approx. 12,000 lb. trailer rating, the other big gasser that has my interest is the GM V8 8.1L HD. I have read that it drinks more fuel than the V10, 6.8L...I'm sure someone will come along to dispel that....
> 
> 
> Kevin



I have friends with the Ford V10.I think my 8.1 may use a little more around town,they are very close though.The 8.1 is a bigger engine,and has more torque down low,hands down.It will hold high gear longer,and pull easier in the higher gears. The V10 Ford is a 10 cylinder,but it is still a small block,so it does rev better than the 8.1,and it shows its advantage with RPM,overall they are very close,the Ford wins higher in the RPM band,the GM down low.Id buy either one.One thing the 8.1 has is an Allison auto,big advantage there until 05 with the torqueshift became available on the Ford,even then,the Allison is the more reliable unit.


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## jerryw66 (Dec 8, 2009)

*on ford differentials*

on the data tag inside the door, where ti says axle, if it is just a number, it's an open dif, such as "9", if it were H9 as is my expedition, then it is limited slip, ford has used a system like this for many years, I don't know the gear ratio, in respect to this number, but the ratios are on a tag on the dif itself. H9 is 3.55 at least for an exp. and they only put limited slips in the rear dif. I think on the ford truck enthusiasts forum, you can find all the ratios, and imfo, I believe the ninth digit in the vin code, tells the axle ratio too, not sure though.


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## KMB (Dec 8, 2009)

John D said:


> I have friends with the Ford V10.I think my 8.1 may use a little more around town,they are very close though.The 8.1 is a bigger engine,and has more torque down low,hands down.It will hold high gear longer,and pull easier in the higher gears. The V10 Ford is a 10 cylinder,but it is still a small block,so it does rev better than the 8.1,and it shows its advantage with RPM,overall they are very close,the Ford wins higher in the RPM band,the GM down low.*Id buy either one.*One thing the 8.1 has is an Allison auto,big advantage there until 05 with the torqueshift became available on the Ford,even then,the Allison is the more reliable unit.



Good points, and good presentation of the info...instead of thrashing the other brand. 

I have heard good things about the Allison...

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 8, 2009)

jerryw66 said:


> on the data tag inside the door, where ti says axle, if it is just a number, it's an open dif, such as "9", if it were H9 as is my expedition, then it is limited slip, ford has used a system like this for many years, I don't know the gear ratio, in respect to this number, but the ratios are on a tag on the dif itself. H9 is 3.55 at least for an exp. and they only put limited slips in the rear dif. I think on the ford truck enthusiasts forum, you can find all the ratios, and imfo, I believe the ninth digit in the vin code, tells the axle ratio too, not sure though.



Thanks for that info. Good stuff. Another post for me to print off for future reference...I'm getting quite a pile .

Kevin


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## DavesDD2500HD (Dec 8, 2009)

John D said:


> I have friends with the Ford V10.I think my 8.1 may use a little more around town,they are very close though.The 8.1 is a bigger engine,and has more torque down low,hands down.It will hold high gear longer,and pull easier in the higher gears. The V10 Ford is a 10 cylinder,but it is still a small block,so it does rev better than the 8.1,and it shows its advantage with RPM,overall they are very close,the Ford wins higher in the RPM band,the GM down low.Id buy either one.One thing the 8.1 has is an Allison auto,big advantage there until 05 with the torqueshift became available on the Ford,even then,the Allison is the more reliable unit.



:agree2:

I owned a 2004 F250 with V10 and 3.73 gears. It liked gas. I had a good friend with a 2002 2500HD with the 8.1L and 3.73 gears. It liked gas. My Ford would get around 12-13 on the highway empty/9-10 loaded with a medium weight trailer. My buddy's 8.1L would get around 11-12 on the highway empty/10 loaded with a trailer.

Both trucks are very similar and will do a good job. John says it good with the low down grunt vs. top end pull. 

Now I can vouch for the Allison. I had a 2004 Duramax with the same Allison the 8.1L has. That is a very nice tranny. I definitely wish my current 6.0L gasser could have the Allison. I think the Allison really shines if you live in the hills and tow heavy. I have not been in a truck with the Torqshift to know what it's like.

If you do try a GM with the Allison, you will notice is has a very steep reverse gear. Also has a pretty steep first forward gear too which helps get a heavy load moving. 

Some very good options out there. Would enjoy hearing your thoughts if you drive some of these or end up buying one.


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## DavesDD2500HD (Dec 8, 2009)

Just remembered that the Allison (1000 series) transmissions used in the GM trucks were originally 5 speed from 2001 through early 2005 model years. Then they were 6 speeds from late 2005 model year through early 2007 model year. I know this was true on the diesels, but I believe it was the same on the 8.1L gassers.

The sixth gear was another overdrive. Wish I knew someone with an 8.1L in the later years to verify this. Also would be interesting to see what they get for mileage. I'd suspect it would be slightly better having that extra OD to lower the RPMs. The 8.1L is torquey enough to pull down low.


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## KMB (Dec 8, 2009)

DavesDD2500HD said:


> :agree2:
> 
> I owned a 2004 F250 with V10 and 3.73 gears. It liked gas. I had a good friend with a 2002 2500HD with the 8.1L and 3.73 gears. It liked gas. My Ford would get around 12-13 on the highway empty/9-10 loaded with a medium weight trailer. My buddy's 8.1L would get around 11-12 on the highway empty/10 loaded with a trailer.
> 
> ...





DavesDD2500HD said:


> Just remembered that the Allison (1000 series) transmissions used in the GM trucks were originally 5 speed from 2001 through early 2005 model years. Then they were 6 speeds from late 2005 model year through early 2007 model year. I know this was true on the diesels, but I believe it was the same on the 8.1L gassers.
> 
> The sixth gear was another overdrive. Wish I knew someone with an 8.1L in the later years to verify this. Also would be interesting to see what they get for mileage. I'd suspect it would be slightly better having that extra OD to lower the RPMs. The 8.1L is torquey enough to pull down low.



And...another good post and good info...thanks.

Kevin


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## Lugnutz (Dec 8, 2009)

satelite sucks, its expensive and unreliable..stick with the dial up till you get dsl in your area...I had the sat thing about 5 years ago..horrible! Got dsl a month ago finally!!!! cheaper and better and faster.


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 8, 2009)

jerryw66 said:


> on the data tag inside the door, where ti says axle, if it is just a number, it's an open dif, such as "9", if it were H9 as is my expedition, then it is limited slip, ford has used a system like this for many years, I don't know the gear ratio, in respect to this number, but the ratios are on a tag on the dif itself. H9 is 3.55 at least for an exp. and they only put limited slips in the rear dif. I think on the ford truck enthusiasts forum, you can find all the ratios, and imfo, I believe the ninth digit in the vin code, tells the axle ratio too, not sure though.



Unless it's a 2000 model. Then, sometimes, they didn't put the code on the sticker in the door jam. That's why I took that picture. I was told if it was over 2k rpms at 60 mpg then it's a 4.30:1 and if it's under 2k at 60 then it's the 3.73:1.

I don't know if mine is limited slip or not. It is 4x4, and to me, it is amazing what it will go through even with highway tires.


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 8, 2009)

KMB said:


> So what vehicle has that speedo?



It's a 1994 Infiniti J30t that I bought for $1,000. Runs great, looks beautiful. It is actually related to this thread in that I traded my FIL that car for the Excursion. I think I got the better end of that deal but he didn't really have any need for the Excursion.


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## clinchscavalry (Dec 8, 2009)

> I don't know if mine is limited slip or not. It is 4x4, and to me, it is amazing what it will go through even with highway tires.




Easy way to find out for sure. Just jack up either rear wheel. If it pulls off the jack, it's limited slip. If the raised wheel just spins, the differential is open.


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## KMB (Dec 8, 2009)

John D said:


> KMB,If you plan on hauling a lot of wood,and your actually worried about the actual tow capacity, A 12500 rating is a good start.It really isnt that much,my truck has a 13,100 rating or something around there 8.1/3.73,my Dodge a 13000 rating.with my 14K dump trailer loaded,its about 14000-15000,so im over the rating,and it sure dont look like a lot of wood to me...esp with green oak...The tow rating of my truck with 4.10 gears is 15,100 lbs,so im really not worried about towing a little over for my short trips,and the truck does very well pulling it.IMO,with out of warranty trucks,the tow rating should be thrown out the window for short trips and local roads.The tow rating I use for myself,the practical one, for short trips,and local roads with open trailers esp,I use the highest tow rating offered with the chassis and GVWR of the truck your buying.So in your case even with a 5.4,as long as its in a super duty,Id tow up to the max rating of the diesel,if needed,without concern for safety.It may be sluggish taking off,but IMO,you arent a liability to those around you or yourself.Just go by DOT rules,and you;ll be fine,they dont care about mfg tow ratings.If the 5.4 was in an f150,different story,as now the tow rating is chassis limited,more than power limited.
> 
> Youll be working it hard,yes,but just run full synthetic lubricants in the drivetrain,and use common sense,and all will be fine.I use low range to get out of the woods with a 15K load,then switch to high before pulling onto the road.Same for parking in the woods while loading heavy.leave it in low range,its much easier on the park gear in an auto,esp if hte e brakes dont work well.You use your gearing instead of heating the torque convertor for nothing.



I was re-reading a few posts here and came across this one. I went to some 2001 trailer towing specs and was looking up the Ford specs and looked at the GM specs again. The numbers were different from what John D had posted...until I looked at the Fifth wheel towing specs and saw that they matched. So then it dawned on me that I should have mentioned in my posts (when I mention towing specs) that I have been looking at the _Conventional towing_ specs for max. trailer weight because right now I don't see a goose neck trailer in my future. BUT, I should probably take that into consideration for the _possibility_ of pulling a goose neck later on.

John D, I wasn't doubting the numbers you posted, I was comparing them to some online specs (from trailerlife.com) and they had made disclaimers that the reader should check with the dealers because the specs that trailerlife get are sometimes preliminary to what gets officially released later.

Kevin


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## John D (Dec 8, 2009)

KMB;1876519The numbers were different from what John D had posted...until I looked at the Fifth wheel towing specs and saw that they matched. So then it dawned on me that I should have mentioned in my posts (when I mention towing specs) that I have been looking at the [I said:


> Conventional towing[/I] specs for max. trailer weight because right now I don't see a goose neck trailer in my future. BUT, I should probably take that into consideration for the _possibility_ of pulling a goose neck later on.
> 
> John D, I wasn't doubting the numbers you posted, I was comparing them to some online specs (from trailerlife.com) and they had made disclaimers that the reader should check with the dealers because the specs that trailerlife get are sometimes preliminary to what gets officially released later.
> 
> Kevin



Kevin, the factory hitch is only rated to 12,000,so they stop the tow ratings there.All you need to do is swap out the factory receiver hitch for a Putnam XDR or Reese Titan V,and you will then have the ability to tow up to the 15000-16000 the hitch is rated for,so long as you use a rated coupler,trailer,and ball/pintle.At 15000,the hard part with a single wheel is keeping tongue weight managable,which is the point where a dually would be nice,even for short trips,dont ask me how I know this....


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## KMB (Dec 8, 2009)

John D said:


> Kevin, GM quoted those numbers for conventional towing.The hitch is only rated to 12,000,so they stop the tow ratings there.All you need to do is swap out the factory receiver hitch for a Putnam XDR or Reese Titan V,and you will then have the ability to tow up to the 15000-16000 the hitch is rated for,so long as you use a rated coupler,trailer,and ball/pintle.At 15000,the hard part with a single wheel is keeping tongue weight managable,which is the point where a dually would be nice,even for short trips,*dont ask me how I know this....*



So...how do you know this?... .

Ah-ha...I understand the 12,000 hitch rating. I Learned something new...again . As for the heavier duty hitches, I had looked them up at the Reese site last night after looking at some older Ford brochures I have.

Kevin


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## DavesDD2500HD (Dec 8, 2009)

John gives more good info about watching the hitch weight ratings. Some people don't regard the factory GM hitches very well for heavy loads. I've never had a problem with any of mine but then I've not pulled more than about 7-8k lbs. 

My buddy who had the 2002 8.1L bent his factory hitch on his 2005 Duramax. He pulled a 32' stacker triple axle we used for racing. He ended up having another friend of mine make a custom hitch that was fully welded to the truck frame.

The Putnam XDR is a very good hitch and well priced. I heard they have gone out of busines... so it may be tough to find one new. The Reese Titan V is another very good hitch. I think it is also known as the "tow beast" hitch. I believe it has the 2.5" receiver opening instead of the standard 2".

If you get to pulling 14-16k, a pintle is probably a good idea. A dually is also a good idea due to the tongue weight and the lever effect of a bumper pull vs a goose or fifth. Still need a strong hitch like the Putnam or Reese for bumper pull.


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## KMB (Dec 8, 2009)

DavesDD2500HD said:


> John gives more good info about watching the hitch weight ratings. Some people don't regard the factory GM hitches very well for heavy loads. I've never had a problem with any of mine but then I've not pulled more than about 7-8k lbs.
> 
> My buddy who had the 2002 8.1L bent his factory hitch on his 2005 Duramax. He pulled a 32' stacker triple axle we used for racing. He ended up having another friend of mine make a custom hitch that was fully welded to the truck frame.
> 
> ...



More good hitch info.

This from the Resse website. The Reese Class V Ultra Frame has a 2" opening and is rated to 12,000 lbs for weight carrying and 15,000 lbs for weight distributing. The Reese Class V Titan Frame has a 2.5" opening and is rated to 13,000 lbs for weight carrying and 17,000 lbs for weight distributing.

Edit: Looking through some of the individual ratings on the Reese Titan and some are up to 18,000 lbs. on the weight carrying and weight distributing.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 9, 2009)

clinchscavalry said:


> Easy way to find out for sure. Just jack up either rear wheel. If it pulls off the jack, it's limited slip. If the raised wheel just spins, the differential is open.



I could do that if I owned it. If the owner doesn't know what it has, I'm not sure they would want me doing that when I'm truck shopping, even if the wheel is jacked up to just clear the ground. I'm sure a call to the local dealer with the VIN # would work. I'm going to find out if there is a sure way to find out what gears a truck (I know each brand will be different) has and if it has limited-slip.

Kevin


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## DavesDD2500HD (Dec 9, 2009)

Kevin,

Pardon me if this has been stated before...don't quite recall during the 7+ pages now. For GM HD trucks, the following codes on the sticker inside the glove box door will tell you the gear ratio and if it has a positraction differential.

GT4 = 3.73 gear ratio
GT5 = 4.10 gear ratio

G80 = Posi rear axle


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## KMB (Dec 9, 2009)

DavesDD2500HD said:


> Kevin,
> 
> Pardon me if this has been stated before...don't quite recall during the 7+ pages now. For GM HD trucks, the following codes on the sticker inside the glove box door will tell you the gear ratio and if it has a positraction differential.
> 
> ...



I don't think it has been mentioned. Thank ya.

Kevin


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 9, 2009)

DavesDD2500HD said:


> Kevin,
> 
> Pardon me if this has been stated before...don't quite recall during the 7+ pages now. For GM HD trucks, the following codes on the sticker inside the glove box door will tell you the gear ratio and if it has a positraction differential.
> 
> ...



And from FTE, here's the Ford axle codes:
(Driver's door jam sticker)

Axle Type 
31 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-250/Excursion 
C1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-250/Excursion 
32 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-250 
C2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-250/Excursion 
33 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-250 
C3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-250/Excursion 
36 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-250 
C6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-250 
41 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels) 
D1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels) 
42 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels) 
D2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels) 
43 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels) 
D3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels) 
46 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels) 
D6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels) 
61 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels) 
F1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels) 
62 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels) 
F2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels) 
63 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels) 
F3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
66 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels) 
F6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels) 
81 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels) 
E1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels) 
82 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels) 
E2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels) 
83 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels) 
E3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels) 
86 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels) 
E6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels) 
88 — 4.88 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels) 
EW — 4.88 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels) 
G3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab 
73 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab 
78 — 4.88 non-limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab 
G8 — 4.88 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab 
75 — 5.38 non-limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab 
G5 — 5.38 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab 
GW — 4.10 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab 
98 — 4.88 non-limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab 
K8 — 4.88 limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab 
95 — 5.38 non-limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab 
K5 — 5.38 limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab 
KW — 4.10 limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab


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## KMB (Dec 9, 2009)

Scott, you da man!  Thank ya.

Kevin


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## merlynr (Dec 9, 2009)

May be old news, but the V10 is the same engine as the 5.4 except has 2 more cylinders.


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## wood4heat (Dec 9, 2009)

KMB said:


> Scott, you da man!  Thank ya.
> 
> Kevin



:agree2:



merlynr said:


> May be old news, but the V10 is the same engine as the 5.4 except has 2 more cylinders.



I've heard the same about GM's 4.3 & 5.7.


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## gr8scott72 (Dec 9, 2009)

wood4heat said:


> :agree2:
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard the same about GM's 4.3 & 5.7.



Except the 5.7 came first then they chopped 2 off to make the 4.3


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