# Building a Circle Mill



## Newfie_1986 (Apr 3, 2006)

Hi All,
I am planning to build a small portable circle mill. I plan to run a 32 inch blade on it. What I need to know is what size engine I need to run it ? I know my atvs engine is only about 12 horse power and it can pull the 4 26 inch very aggressive tires and a trailer of saw logs with ease. Could I run the Mill with a 10 horse power diesel and gear it down to pull the load ? Id like to be able to use this engine because it is light and I plan to haul this mill with my ATV... I believe gear it so I get 5 turns on the engine crank and one on the saw blade (would give me about 800 rpm on the blade)..

Thanks for any input !


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## DDM (Apr 3, 2006)

I doubt you will have the torque. I'd go with like a 300 6 cylinder ford or something inexpensive like that.You can probably find one with a PTO Already on it.


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## Jwoods (Apr 4, 2006)

Hi Newfie_1986

I'm curious as to why a circle mill?

Have you found any Foley's in your area? They made a mill about the size you're intending to build.


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## Newfie_1986 (Apr 4, 2006)

Id just prefer to have a circle mill. As far as finding any used mills in my area, well the only used mills here are home made death traps (pretty much big table saws). I know of one guy who has a home made mill like this and he chopped his thumb, index finger, and middle finger on his right hand off with it last year (hand slipped into the blade as he was pushing the log through).

I was thinking about buying a Hudson band mill for a while but I also think I could build a small circle mill cheaper than buying the Hudson (and have it have a higher production rate)...

The 18 inch Oscar Would cost me about $3800 Canadian to the door (with no trailer).
I think I could build a circle mill for around $1800 Canadian (on a towable trailer).

Thanks


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 4, 2006)

I think by the time your done, you will wish you had the band mill. It takes a lot of motor to run a circle saw that size, and soon the whole thing is going to be very heavy. Then you will have to beef it up again because it's heavy ect....

Then there's the fact that you are makeing a LOT more sawdust with a circle mill, and that means with a bandmill every 5th board is FREE. This adds up over time! In fact on average you gain over 20% more lumber per log with a bandmill... In hardwood, at a buck a bd. ft. that adds up fast!

I'm sorry to say, Hudson is getting a bad name for lack of service and quality lately... Look at the Norwood Industries, and Woodmizer bandmills too. Norwood is in Canada, and they have mills starting out at under $3,000.00 USD.

To be honest, if you want production, it's hard to get anything "light" or "portable", but i do know several guys makeing a liveing with Norwoods Lumbermate 2000.

Rob


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## Jwoods (Apr 4, 2006)

Missing thumbs and other digits? -you'll be lucky to find any circular mill owner who still has all their fingers. Foley Belsaw sold thousands of their small portable mills in the 60's, 70's, and so on. They ran a 30-inch or so blade, and can still be found once in a while for reasonable money today. Most of them were PTO, or flat-belt units, requiring 25-45 hp farm tractors. 
Check within your local farm community to see if any are around.

To mill a 15-foot log, you're going to need over 30 feet of track. That's a fairly long "portable" mill. As well, will you always have a helper? Off-loading from a circular mill is long and exhausting for 1 person, not to mention the safety hazards associated.


Just some thoughts.


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## Newfie_1986 (Apr 4, 2006)

If you seen this guys mill youd understand why he lost his fingers (no log dogs he just holds the logs with his hands). I do understand though that a lot of circle mill owners have lost some parts !

The longest I would probably mill is 10-12 foot.. Im still in debate as to what to do. We just had our first saw mill dealer open here (Hudson dealer 4 hours away from me). And more than likely I will always have help while milling lumber.

I just look at the band mills and see how slow they are and well I want something faster ! The guy who cut his fingers off, his mill can cut 3 times as fast as the Hudson 30 inch band mill (have seen him mill and seen video of the Hudson)...

I may just buy the 18 inch Hudson bandmill and build a circle mill (or find one used) while using the band mill... I will only be milling spruce and Balsam Fir no real hardwoods....

Anyone know how many BF can be cut an hour with the 18 inch Hudson? I dont guess a lot ?

Thanks for all the advice guys !


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## Newfie (Apr 4, 2006)

BF per hour is a pretty arbitrary figure. Too many factors.

Cutting 4/4 lumber out of small diameter,short logs will yield the lowest numbers. Sawing for grade will make that number smaller.

Sawing beams or 2 x 12's out of larger diameter,longer length logs would make those numbers jump up by 4 or 5 times.


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## Newfie_1986 (Apr 4, 2006)

After looking at all of this I don't know what to do. I would like something that is portable and can put out some lumber fast. As far as the log handleing and lumber handleing goes well that wont be much of an issue. I just need a mill that can cut the lumber fast. The biggest logs I will be dealing with are about 22 inches in diameter.

Lets say I built a band mill like Hudsons 18 inch and instead of using a 5.5 horse engine I used a 13 horse power gas engine or a 20 HP Diesel would that make much difference in cutting speed compared to the 5.5 hp engine ? or would I be better off going with an 8 horse engine and having a higher blade speed ?

I am just trying to figure out what makes band mills cut faster higher torque or blade speed ?

Anyone know where I could get some free bandmill plans to look at ? I would like to see how the mill head moves up and down.

I am trying to keep this as cheap as possible thats why I am thinking about building it myself.

Thanks and sorry for all the questions !


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 4, 2006)

You can "over speed" a bandsaw band just like you can over speed a circle saw blade. They both have to be run at a certain speed.

Torque is what does the work! More is better.

For speed with a band, the 13 hp is a lot faster than anything less! And my 23 hp is a lot faster than the 13 hp i had on my last mill.

Very few people build a mill and then say it was better to build, than buy a near new or new mill.. I see this all the time..

Rob


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## rmihalek (Apr 5, 2006)

I'd guess that the thinner kerf of a band mill is one reason it would cut quicker (with less horsepower) than a circle mill.


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## coveredinsap (Apr 5, 2006)

A chainsaw powered band saw is another option. At about $1600 (sans powerhead) you get the best of both worlds, extreme mobility and the ease of cutting with a bandsaw. I like.

http://www.ripsaw.com/

Combine one of these badboys with a chainsaw mill and you've got a recipe for fun fun fun.


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## Newfie_1986 (Apr 5, 2006)

Thanks again guys.

Coveredinsap, as far as the chainsaw driven bandsaw goes well for that price and by the time I bought a big enough saw to run it (My 55 Rancher wouldnt cut it) I could buy an 18 inch Hudson mill. Or even build a circle mill or Band mill. I need portability and production. I think to start out I may build a 24 inch band mill with an 11 hp engine. And then go on to build a small portable circle mill. 

Sawyer Rob the reason I want to build a mill versus buy one is because I can build one a lot cheaper than to buy one. An LT 10 wood Mizer is $3999 USD !!! An Oscar 18 is $2499 USD (cheapest mill I have seen !).. I feel I can build a better mill than the Oscar 18 and do it for a cheaper price. I have heard that the Hudson mills have problems with the track flexing...

Sawyer Rob who knows I may be back and tell you you were right (nah even if you were I still wouldnt admit to it hahaha)...

Thanks for the advice and any tips on building a bandmill would be appreciated. Maybe if some of you have pics of your bandmills you could send them to me ?


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## DMessin (Apr 5, 2006)

You can snag decent deals on large circular mills if you keep your eyes open. Family runs a small farm and woodlot in upstate NY and we recently upgraded our 36" Belsaw that ran off flat belt or pto drive. Picked up an Ireland 6 and a Ford Commander 6000 (75 hp diesel tractor) to run it for $1200. Mounted on a bus frame for some portability. Power receders make life easy to run, but you'd better have a tail sawyer or you're going to be running all over the place trying to keep up with it! We sawed up a 20'x20' cabin and a 20'x40' shop in no time - pruning some hemlock out of the woodlot. A nice new band mill would be more efficent though. Having a maple syrup evaporator makes burning the slab wood a good conservation of lumber.

Cheers and happy sawing,
-Dave


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## Marco (Jun 11, 2006)

Since this thread was already started, I was wondering who here runs a circular mill? My father and I run one that is capable of running a 48" blade, most of the time we run a 42" Simonds insert tooth. Arbor speed is about 450rpm by way of a flat belt drive off of a Minneapolis Moline 336 power unit. The feed is what I believe is refered to as a Jacobs style feed with 2 belts that have idlers alternately press against one or the other for forward or reverse that runs a drum that pulls the carriage back and forth with a cable. Sawdust is removed with the remains of a cob elevator off of an old corn shredder.
I came across a Sachs 133 and tried chainsaw milling for short, odd, valuable pieces. After 2 logs I have shelved the idea and let Minne do the talking. Seems like alot of fuel and time for what you get done with a chainsaw, compared to even a primitave circular setup. 
And the only injury we've sustained is my father dropped an old solid tooth blade on his pinky toe many years ago.


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## redprospector (Jun 12, 2006)

I agree that a band mill makes more sence in a small portable opperation.
I built my own, and as stated earlier wish I had bought one. It is not cheap to build a quality mill, and when you're finished you still have to work out the bugs.
One of the things I did that I really like is to not use a small engine. I used a 1600cc Volkswagon engine, it doesn't weigh much, if you eat your Wheaties you can pick up the complete engine and place it on the mill yourself. Plenty of torque, and hp. easy to work on, and lots of things you can do to add a little umph if you think you need it.
I don't remember the hp. rating but it is plenty to run a small circle, or band mill along with a hydraulic pump.

Andy


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## Newfie_1986 (Aug 29, 2006)

Well I built a bandmill. it has been great. My brothers friend has a hudson 18 inch oscar and he says our mill cuts straighter than his (track flexes on the Hudson). My mill can cut about an 18 inch log. Im running a 6.5 hp honda clone engine ! Runs great, I plan to upgrade to an 11 hp engine very soon. the mill cuts perfectly straight lumber no matter how hard I shove the mill head through the log, I can almost stall the engine and still have a good straight cut ! The mill is the straightest cutting mill I have seen here locally !

Everything for the mill was purchased at princess auto well everything except the steel !

im still going to look into building a small circle mill though !


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Aug 29, 2006)

Newfie_1986 said:


> Well I built a bandmill. it has been great. My brothers friend has a hudson 18 inch oscar and he says our mill cuts straighter than his (track flexes on the Hudson). My mill can cut about an 18 inch log. Im running a 6.5 hp honda clone engine ! Runs great, I plan to upgrade to an 11 hp engine very soon. the mill cuts perfectly straight lumber no matter how hard I shove the mill head through the log, I can almost stall the engine and still have a good straight cut ! The mill is the straightest cutting mill I have seen here locally !
> 
> Everything for the mill was purchased at princess auto well everything except the steel !
> 
> im still going to look into building a small circle mill though !



Well... let's see it!!!


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## poleframer (Aug 30, 2006)

My tractor is run by a one banger Yanmar LA100 10hp diesel engine. Not at all like a gas engine, lots more torque when pushed hard. Very simple, electric starter,but will pull start as well. Often used for sailboat aux. engines. The fuel economy is awesome (I can work for a day on a gallon of diesel). If I build a bandmill I'd use one. Lombardi is another I've heard of.


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## Sawyer Rob (Aug 30, 2006)

> My tractor is run by a one banger Yanmar LA100 10hp diesel engine. Not at all like a gas engine, lots more torque when pushed hard. Very simple, electric starter,but will pull start as well. Often used for sailboat aux. engines. The fuel economy is awesome (I can work for a day on a gallon of diesel). If I build a bandmill I'd use one. Lombardi is another I've heard of.



I'm a big diesel fan, but the problem with those small aluminum block diesels on band mill, is that they don't hold up well long term. Woodmizer quit putting them on there mills for that reason. They just can't seem take the constant cycle from heating when cutting to cooling when back to idle, constantly back and forth because of the way a bandmill is used. A castiron block fixes that, but they are very heavy.

I have the Vanguard 23hp on my mill, and it's been a perfect combo for me. Another excelent choise on a homeowner mill is the Honda 13, it's probable the best small gas motor Honda has ever made!

Rob


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## B-Edwards (Sep 1, 2006)

I have a local friend that has built two bandmills from scratch and they both worked very well. Of course he did learn from the 1st build what to put in his 2nd build. I would consider as suggested to build a band mill , You wont be sorry doing so.


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## Newfie_1986 (Sep 9, 2006)

Ok guys heres some photos to look at. It isnt a flashy machine, its pretty simple in design, no it isnt painted and I have started using it so the chances of it seeing paint are slim to none lol ! Most people online have told me if you use it before you paint it chances are it will never get paint !

There is also a pic of some small logs and my log hauler (the 2001 350 Honda fourtrax 4x4 atv !).

http://photos.yahoo.com/darryl_86 go to the 2006/09/09 album to see the pics.

Darryl


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## dustytools (Sep 9, 2006)

I agree 100 percent with the comment about the paint.Did you build the mill from a set of plans or did you just go from various other designs and combine them? Good looking job.


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## Newfie_1986 (Sep 9, 2006)

I pretty much built it out of my head I did see a Hudson 18 inch oscar in person prior to building this. I was actually going to buy the Hudson, but am since glad I built a mill ! My brothers neighbour bought a Hudson and had some blade breaking problems with it in the begining and he finds the track flexes a lot too. My mill cost about $1200 Canadian to build whereas the Hudson would have cost me $3500 Canadian.

Originally I was going to buy the plans for the simple saw, but then I looked at it and realized I could make it simpler !

Everything to build the mill besides the steel and the 2 F clamps (for log dogs) was purchased at Priincess Auto even the 6.5 HP engine !

The Mill cuts straight no matter how fast I push the head through the log so I am quite happy. But if I do build another Saw Mill it will be a small portable Circle mill that I can haul with my atv ! Im confident I can build one !


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## dustytools (Sep 9, 2006)

Do you have any close up pics of the log dogs?


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## Newfie_1986 (Sep 9, 2006)

Not at the moment but I can get some for you if you like. Would you like an photos of other specific parts of the mill ?


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## dustytools (Sep 9, 2006)

The more pics the better. Ive got a pile of iron that one day will hopefully be a bandmill. Ive been debating on whether or not to buy a set of plans. Problem is that there are not many bandmills around here or ones that I am aware of. Closest dealer is about two hours away. Thanks.


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## Newfie_1986 (Sep 10, 2006)

dustytools 
if I get a chance tomorrow I will take some more detailed photos of the mill that will give you a better idea of the way it was constructed.


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## olyman (Sep 11, 2006)

newfie--what is the outside dia of the drive wheels???? reason--because from what i understand--if the drive wheeels are under 19 inch dia--youll be breaking the bands--they dont like tight circles---they dont break instantly--but after a while--and with no guards--watch out!!!!!!


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## L Wagner (Sep 11, 2006)

Newfie

Take a look at my bandmill in the post about couple of pics of bandmill. 
This mill was made in Arkansas and cost about $4000.00. Thats trailer and all.
It has a 9HP Honda and cuts 21" logs. They also make one for 24" and 30" for more money.

Larry


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## Newfie_1986 (Sep 11, 2006)

Outside diameter of the wheels are about 19 inches. I have had 2 blades snap without any issues. I ran them while blunt and they developed stress cracks and then snapped. The trailor fenders worked just as I had planned and stopped the band from doing any damage other than making a racket !

L Wagner
Nice looking mill, mine will cut about a 20 inch log. do you have much use on you mill yet? I have only cut about 70 logs with my home made rig !


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