# Crane removal techniques



## treeclimber165 (Aug 17, 2002)

Saw a discussion on another board about using cranes, and realized that we don't discuss cranes very often here. I've used cranes for removals probably over 150 times and learned my methods from an experienced crane removal climber. But before I go into detail, I wanted to see what you guys thought and what are your methods when approaching a removal from the standpoint of using a crane.

Climber tie-in methods (tied into the tree or to the crane?)
Attaching leads to the crane hook (tip heavy, butt heavy, balanced; how and why?)
Special cutting techniques used for crane jobs as opposed to regular rigging
Communication with crane operator
Anything else that you do different when using a crane for removals

I've found that most who don't use cranes say that they cannot justify the cost. I've found that with the proper techniques and setup, renting a crane will turn a 2 day job into a 5-6 hour job, easily paying the crane rental and then some.


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## Jumper (Aug 17, 2002)

*Jumper*

I have assisted in the sum total of one crane removal-which involved two very large maple trees that were planted right next to a house. This turned a three day job into a less than one day job, as there was no way to lower the trucks without a great degree of difficulty.

The climber was in the tree, and the larger pieces were lowered heavy end down, and placed on the front lawn for bucking and limbing.

You spoke of communications- the crane operator could not see or hear the climber, so I ended up being a relay with less than satisfactory "reception" by both parties. My duties and some basic hand signals both understood should have been explained beforehand to avoid


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## kf_tree (Aug 17, 2002)

i've only been involved in about a dozen or so crane removals. the guy i use comes out of new jersey. he only does tree work with the crane. they have their own tree svc but do crane rentals also but only for tree work. if the tree is accessable with a bucket and crane he would bring both trucks. then we would tie in to the ball for the high cuts. if the tree was unaccessable with a bucket we would tie in on the ball and be placed in the tree. i just listened to their there game plan before i went up and did as told. since all they do was crane removals day in and day out. i figured they knew best. every thing always went smooth and i never had problem them. some times i would price 2 big removals a little cheap and bring him in and bang them both out in a day. if i had a really big tree to do i would just split the job with him. for the bucket and the crane for the day it cost me about 1700.00 for the day. so i had to get good money for tree to warrent a crane.


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## coydog (Aug 17, 2002)

climber tie-in:
i've heard riding the block up is not exactly up to safety standards, but thats how i always did it.
if the attachment point is more or less vertical to where i'll make the cut i'll ride the block up to the attachment point, attach the branch then drop down, tie in with lanyard, unclip rope, pull it free from block and cut, repeat. 
if attachment point is more horizontal, such that there would be a danger of swinging into the crane
(or ground, wires, house, etc.)
I'll set a second rope in tree, and repeat above procedure except that i'll be double crotched into block and tree when traversing to the point where i'll make my cut.
it's always preferable if the crane operator can raise branch up perfectly vertical to cut so that upon release there is no swing or bucking action at all.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 17, 2002)

There are rules about using a crane for personal support. I have yet to find a crane operator that would let me tie into the crane. If something happened, he'd be screwed, glued, and tattooed. Manbasket only, around here.

I've heard of guys tieing into the same crane that's lifting and I first think to myself, "death or injury", then I think to myself, "Lawsuit".

Done properly, I would think the piece is tied off, supporting pressure is applied, a snap cut is made, the climber evacuates, then the peice is broken off and moved. If the tree can't be climbed, then it's two cranes, one with a manbasket, one for lifting.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 17, 2002)

MM is write on several points-...........

O noooooooo, i can't say that!!!

But seriously, i ain't done me no 150 crane jobs, in fact rig when others say i need or require crane!

i think the cut, evacuate, let crane take by flexing snap or narrow hinge (that contrary to all the felling stuff, shears early). Unless, there is such structurall weakness that it wouldn't take a snap. i also taake my loop runners with me to hitch off dead wood that might injure people or property by coming off during crane handling! Also, one of my first concerns at every stop is to open up window between myself and operator.

As far as riding the ball up, ............um your not supposed to, but i have tied in with a round turn on the hook with lanyard; backed up by choked lifeline redirect sling, with lifeline loop on top. That is 3x tied in, lifted by a device with a SWL of 30-100 tons. i have 'em place me high center, tie lifeline in (break tail apart ie. seperate tail) leaving 2 connections to the hook. Then change over to tree support. Not recommending breaking code, just being honest! As long as ya don't get slapped around, against tree by wind or opertator, i think that is fairly positive. then i might slacken life line and have hook deliver me to high vertical, choke off top and repel down. Sometimes, have a seperate 40' line, for tying into choke point, and coming down it, rather than being pulled towards my main tie in.

Mostly i try to hitch off limbs with positive bottom weight (choking high) on verticals, letting it invert and other trix can impact that high leverage of the crane with awesome force!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i think cranes are mainly for lifting and moving controlled, steady loads. So i take serious second guessing before triying to much swivelling, dropping into the hook etc. Also, the cable has less buffering than a line, so any impacting is even more dangerous, especially with the heavy loads that require a crane.

Nice hinge control and scheduling coydawgy! Another thing we might do if front is clear (or other open box) is swivel limb (if necessary) let heavy head down in box (now green is heavy so you don't have to go to the extreme point to set it); then cut off (ground is supporting head), nad have crane pick up limb from this position; once again butt is light here so it comes up. Once again all lifting action by crane, no shock.

Get the crane as close as possible, extend the boom as much as posssible, use gib when reasonable. These all put the boom at less of an angle (more vertical-strongest position), so is more positive lifting. Even if let down zone is a lil farther away, than tree; it is probably easier to see; and it is easier (IMAO) for the crane to lift the weight close, then throw the load away smoothly to clear zone, than to lift at slighter disadvantage do to angle of support. A crane is rated by how much support at what angle; just like you could hold a bucket of sand up longer (arm extended) at 1:00 than 2:00 or 3:00 etc.


P.S>jsut posted as Spike was too, i try always to dawg in at an imperfetion with choker, or make my own, if in doubt i've given choker a round turn before threading eye.


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## kf_tree (Aug 17, 2002)

when taking out the stick do you guys use lifting tongs or slings? i've used both. and kind of prefer the tongs over slings unless you set up 2 slings to keep the piece straight. the guys i know once had a piece slip out of a sling. now if they use a sling they cut a notch or 2 in the stick so the sling can't slip.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 18, 2002)

I don't think tongs are allowed in that type of work??? Suprised trhe crane company would do it. You need smoe type of choking device be it chain, cable or fabric.

I think using 2 slings is best for any type of pick. lends more stability while in motion.

But then all the picks I've done are GRCS type operations, not ones where multiple tons of load are being moved.


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## murphy4trees (Aug 18, 2002)

I heard a story some years back that tongs were used to move logs directly over a house... Sounds PDR (pretty ???? risky) to me.
God Bles,
Daniel


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 18, 2002)

Cranes


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 18, 2002)

There is a great article in the May 2002 issue of TCI on cranes. To renew my ins. this year I have to fill out a Crane Supplemental App. ,.... more money I quess,but I do 2-3 crane removals per week so it is for the best.


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## FBerkel (Aug 18, 2002)

The crane company I use comes with their own heavy cable chokers-no chance of sliding off the spar, they bite in.


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## treeclimber165 (Aug 18, 2002)

*monkeypuzzle*

I'd be interested in hearing more about what methods work best for you. I've heard about people tying into the crane, having two climbers- one to rig and one cutting. Seems like a total waste of manpower to me. As for tying into the crane, it wasn't allowed for a long time. Then the laws changed, as long as you were double tied with all rated rigging (lifeline, harness, etc.). I've ridden the hook to get into the top of trees many times, but once in the tree I don't re-tie to the crane. As in regular rigging, you try to keep your lifeline well away from your rigging point.

I've found it most efficient to have 2-3 slings (I prefer the Yellow Tuflex slings, next rating higher than the green) so I can be rigging the next cut while the crane is moving the previous one. I was taught to 'notch for the sky', hooking the limb butt-heavy. I make my notch aiming towards the crane's line of lift, get some tension on the cable, and under(back) cut an inch or two out past my notch so I leave a step. Once my back cut is deep enough, I put my saw away and move clear. Then I signal for the crane operator to lift, the lead raises and breaks away without any stress or jerking on the crane. 
I've had crane operators try to 'help' me by jerking on the limb while I'm cutting. I've dang near come out of a tree to wring their neck for jerking on a 2000lb lead while I'm cutting on it!


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 18, 2002)

My father places all the slings for me while I just sit and wait to make the cut.It takes no time at all to place a sling or even two if you need to balance the load.He stays tied in at all times to the ball,an if he needs to move over a few few feet to place another balance sling the crane opeator just moves the ball to where he feels it should be placed. Every cut is different as every tree is different. Now when the tops are off Iplace the slings myself,since it would be a waste of manpower,and then the crane can just wrap the sling around the pole for you.


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## treeclimber165 (Aug 18, 2002)

So what do you do between cuts?


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 18, 2002)

I feel that the crane operator her in Tally is about the best in N.Fla. use to use another company but they killed a guy buy sticking him into hot wires,and this wasn't even tree work they were doing.I don't know the facts but we don't call on them anymore,and they started using that silly basket thing,and I WAS NOT going to eat the cost or learning how to use the darn thing. 


A qualified arborist may be hoisted into position usng a crane,provided that he/she is TIED in with a arborist climbing line and arborist saddle and secured to a designated anchor point on the boom or line.(Z133 6.7.6)


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## treeclimber165 (Aug 18, 2002)

Here's the guy I like to use here in Orlando. I've done probably over 100 jobs with him.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 18, 2002)

Monk,
Could you clarify? Your dad rides the ball to attach the sling, then what, he rides along while the peice is being moved?


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 18, 2002)

How long have you been doing tree ......... he he, just funnin,, I just hang and keep a birds eye view of the ground work,and yes I do have to move about from time to time.What should I be doing? 

Now keep in mind that we are talking about a 60 year old man here, Mike, the old fellow comes to the ground off the ball which he never comes untied from. I must say he will make his rope smoke.


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 18, 2002)

I do believe that under VERY specific circumstances it is OK to remain attached to the load while it is under load.


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## Toddppm (Aug 19, 2002)

Seein as how I never done a crane job as the climber I've got a couple questions for you guys. What is the jib /gib ??? Monkeypuzzle Are you saying your dad leaves his rope tied into the hook while it's taking a piece to wherever it's going ?? How long are your ropes???


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## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 19, 2002)

Jib is extra extension nose for some cranes, allowing longer boom, allowing steeper angle on boom to hit same spot, allowing more weight to be handled more positively and with less shake during movement. The angle of the boom determines changing support capacity every time, next would be outrigger setting i would think, assuming proper strength/power in all else.

We use braided steel chokers provided by crane company and screw shackles. i tighten screw all they way and back off an 1/8th turn to prevent jamming. Good idea for groundy to have piece of rebar or something for tapping/vibrating stuck pin screw on shackle anyway. Pliers are a lil better, in case need to grip pin with leverage, but usually tapping is all that we need from time to time.

i wouldn't recommend riding with load on crane, too much can happen as it is taken, moved, swinging etc. especially pieces big enough you need seperate man to set connections. i'd imagine you have favorite company and operator that allows such things (trying hard to be nice!!).


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## rbtree (Aug 19, 2002)

The jib is a lattice structured section that can be attached at the end of the hydraulicly operated boom sections. It reduces the load carrying capacity quite a bit, but certainly extends the reach.

Most of my craning is of 20-60 foot conifer trunk sections. Some crane operators dont allow riding the load line, even if I show them the Ansi guidelines. After choking the section, usually with steel, I rap down off the hook. I have the guys put my saw on the lifeline, which comes up to me, or close. Then, I start my cut directly below ( imagine a plumb bob) where the log is choked, and usually just make one cut straight through. As the operator lifts, the kerf automatically opens up. If this method is not practical, I will make two cuts, just barely mismatched, and overlapping.


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## rbtree (Aug 19, 2002)

Another


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## rbtree (Aug 19, 2002)

Takin her away...

This job was in Somerset, about 500 vertical feet above Seattle. That is downtown, Mercer Island, the East Channel Bridge, and the Olympic Mts in the background. Eye Candy, eh?! 

Don't you all decide you want to move out here, now....!!


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## treeclimber165 (Aug 19, 2002)

In response to my question about what he does while someone else rigs for him-


> _Originally posted by monkeypuzzle _
> *I just hang and keep a birds eye view of the ground work,and yes I do have to move about from time to time.What should I be doing?
> *



I just cannot see the efficiency in this method. I would imagine that this would take more crane time for each setup (35 ton prices are $100 per hour here), not to mention wasting one man. 

Every crane removal I have ever done was climbable, never had one I couldn't climb (yet). By keeping an extra sling with me, I can set up the next cut while the crane swings the last to the ground and unhooks. When I get the hook back, I only need to hook it and move back to my cut point. Probably takes me less time than your father rappelling to the ground and clearing his rope. But I should not criticize, as I haven't seen how you do it. And it must work for you, so that is what matters. 


Nice pics, Rog! Is that an 18 ton with 60' of stick? We had one just like that at a local city I worked for, quite handy for most jobs. Only needed to call in a big one a couple times.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 19, 2002)

Only when the responsible person determins there is no other safe way to perform the task.

Will you find a crane company to go along with that?


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## rbtree (Aug 19, 2002)

87 feet of boom, or total reach, I think it is, and only 17 tons. We pick some pretty heavy stuff, for sure. Mike charges 85 per hr, 2 hr min, 35 bucks travel, which is unheard of!! A regular crane co is 3 hr min (or 4), and at least 135 per hr for a 35 tonner.


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## rbtree (Aug 19, 2002)

A close shave....?


....nah


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## rbtree (Aug 19, 2002)

see.....

....I dont shave......

..much


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## Toddppm (Aug 19, 2002)

Very cool pics!!!
Maybe someday I'll run into a job where they'll pay what I want and I can use a crane too, always seems like theres either too many wires or too far to access. Priced a job today to remove 4 Hemlocks + a Maple all only about 60 ft. or so in the backyard. I priced it well , don't know if I got it yet but seems like a pretty easy rigging job, didn't even consider a crane, need to get out of that mindset I guess. 

How do they put the jib on anyway? I've always wondered how they put up those huge cranes like on top of highrises, do they use a smaller crane to assemble the big one? Or does it kind of assemble itself somehow


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## rbtree (Aug 19, 2002)

todd,

60 feet into the backyard is quite a bit, if the crane cant get back there. That would take a pretty big crane. I recently found a 50 tonner with 166 feet of boom, that would work. cost is about $160 per hr. But with hemlock, there is little wood value compared to doug fir, which off sets our crane costs, and then some...

A mobile stick crane, with no hydraulics, only cable, has a fixed boom, and must be assembled with the help of another boom, I think. (Much like a tower crane) So setup/teardown runs minimum $1400. I've never used our local guy, who does trees all the time. They can pick 100 foot plus firs, from the backyard, whole!!! But, with 166 feet of boom, he needs the whole street to set up in, not too practical most of the time, I'd say.


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## kf_tree (Aug 20, 2002)

rb, from your pics it looks like you guys get some great views from the tree tops.


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 20, 2002)

I never said he rides the load(piece of tree) back to the ground...It takes minimal time to place the sling(s) and get to the ground, and clear the rope,and yes that is the fun part for the ole fellow,at least he wants to be part of the action at 60yrs.On pines it is easier with just one climber but with these large H2O and Laurel oaks I find it hard for one climber to beat us.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 20, 2002)

Now that I understand that he rapels down, it seems like an efficiant wat to do the removal. He gets lifted, does his thing, then rappels down before loading, it does sound fun.
I would be concerned if he routinely rode the peice because it opens up so many things that can go wrong.

Most of you probably saw the crane accident we had here in Milwaukee, while building the stadium. One crane failed, due to wind loads, and hit the second crane, with the manbasket. 
Even with the best operators and the best equipment, things can go wrong.


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 20, 2002)

35 ton @ 100$ per hr. 3hr. min. here. There is a break when you pay cash,.....so if I use him for about 2hrs. it will cost me about 250-275$ plus his tip.


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## Treeman14 (Aug 20, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rbtree _
> *The jib is a lattice structured section that can be attached at the end of the hydraulicly operated boom sections. It reduces the load carrying capacity quite a bit, but certainly extends the reach.
> 
> *



Au contrare, mon frere. The jib actually INCREASES lift capacity since the boom is at a higher angle.

Also, I didn't see any mention of a technique we routinely use for attaching the chokers to the cable. We shackle the choker above the ball so that after the piece is choked, the climber can be lowered on the ball to the cutting position. With a long choker, you've got almost 20 feet of lateral movement and infinite vertical movement. After the climber is unhooked from the ball, the cable is brought up and snugged.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 20, 2002)

Yo Mr. Tree Man;

i was about to post that i had been corrected; for i called 3 crane places that see it RB's way!!

i questioned pretty good on'em too! i directly asked if the jib let the boom be 10 degrees higher (and reach over same spot) wouldn't that capacity be better than lower boom without. Actually, i thought that it was going to come out that wee were both right, and that nearer horizontal, RB was write and that nearer vertical i was right; but all 3 said across the board that RB was. 

They said it just put boom higher with loss of capacity, so i asked then why if you had enough boom would you put on jib? ; they said so it would be higher (Oh, that part slipped by me!!!). Then when there was enough clearance why did the operator insist on stopping and putting on jib? To make it higher..........

After getting off phone and trying to draw this in head, i can only imagine this would be for better stability of load from higher point of support or something. Now this is for hydralic cranes, putting lattice nose on solid boom, not cranes constructed on sight from 3 semi loads that are all laticed construction in the boom.

But, otherwise than this issue of lattice jib being so much lesser capacity than solid steel arm, the more vertical the boom the higher capacity the boom angle position, and the less leverage on outriggers anchoring the whole show too. So be as close as ya can and put the boom up, proper craning would also be to be over your load always i think. So if ya try an 18T rental (U operate) please, don't just put the boom up but not over load cuz some dum-me was talking about it on the freakin' inter-net!!!! Especially someone with screw loose calling'em self a tree spider and can't sp'ill write!

Brett (or anyone else) if ya have any sources on all this i think we would all like to know more. 

Enquiring minds need to know!


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## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 21, 2002)

This doesn't address the gib question, but very good at expressing the imperative of proper boom angle to load:

"The Boom Angle, Radius, Weight Factor

Any crane under load has some critical operating factors that have to be considered to ensure the whole outfit doesn't become unbalanced and tip over. These factors are boom angle, boom radius, and the weight of the intended load. If the weight of the load is a constant, then the only possible variables are the boom's angle and radius. However, changing any one of these two variables will not only affect the other, but could also cause the weight of a properly calculated safe load to change to an extremely unsafe load.

For instance, if the boom angle is decreased and the boom's radius increased, the maximum weight of the load has to be reduced. If the load weight is not reduced, a tipover is very likely. So, naturally, it's imperative the crane operator pay keen attention to this "weight/angle/radius" formula before the operation is started and especially during an actual lifting operation.

In this particular tipover incident, the mishap load was over 2,200 pounds more than the crane's boom angle and boom radius allowed by tech data. The difference in what the tech data called for and the mishap crane's actual boom angles and boom radii at the time of the mishap were 19° and 9 feet, respectively. Big differences, eh?

Supposedly, the criticality of this weight/angle/radius formula wasn't stressed or emphasized during the crane operator training course. The course lesson plan didn't even have an instructor's note to do so. So is it any wonder the base crane operators might not pay very close attention to this important factor during lifting operations?"

From body of article in:
http://safety.kirtland.af.mil/magazine/htdocs/julmag97/pg28jul.htm


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 18, 2004)

I found this good thread, and I thought I would bump it.

I have allways just cut straight through, as I have stated in previous posts.

But several of you stated the merits of putting a backcut, or even an underbed.

I tried that out today, and I can see where it has its place.

Each cut is different, and requires individual approaches.

Smaller wood, up to 20", you can saw through with no problem.

Bigger, a back-kerf cut worked well for me. Even a shallow underbed. Just hold your hinge til the right moment.

See? I can change!


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## ORclimber (Feb 18, 2004)

Just did my first "real" crane job in about 7 years. It was kind of different dealing with the pull of the crane. Gravity didn't work like normal. Pinched the 200 and 266 a few times popping tops. Narrow holding wood that would easily snap if the tops were being dumped seemed to not break free. Sure beats doing trees the hard way.


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 18, 2004)

*Pinching is to be expected*

Try to make the finishing cut with the tip of the bar.


Ya know how you see some fool sawing with the bar? Back and forth? Like a rookie might do, cutting a log on the ground?

Well, in a crane cut thats how you do it to help from getting the bar pinched in the final cut. And try to do it with the last 8" of the bar.

And keep a tiger eye!


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## ORclimber (Feb 18, 2004)

Will try


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## mmayo (Feb 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Treeman14 _
> Also, I didn't see any mention of a technique we routinely use for attaching the chokers to the cable. We shackle the choker above the ball so that after the piece is choked, the climber can be lowered on the ball to the cutting position. With a long choker, you've got almost 20 feet of lateral movement and infinite vertical movement. After the climber is unhooked from the ball, the cable is brought up and snugged. [/B]



I just worked with this method the other day...very energy efficient. Basically the crane moves you to tie and cut in seconds, it's wonderful. There is definately a place for many different cutting techniques as well. The bottom line other than safety of course is the final bet on what the last trunk pick weighs. Farthest off buys the beer!!


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## xtremetrees (Feb 19, 2004)

THe way Arborist taught me to do cranes.
By the way dude owned it broke his first boom trying to lift his truck out the bog. Suckion caused the boom to bend bad but not break.

1. Loop runner above ball with auto locking biner.
2. Tie into biner with split tial.
3. Strap safety into hook for insurance.
4. Boom to top.
5. Attach safety to top.
6 Attach straps tighten up slightly.
7 Rapell to cut. safety in. Loosen blakes slightly.Untie standing part of rapell line. Pull rapelling/climbing line thru biner on ball, pull all rope thru blakes running smoothly.
8 Retie climbing line below safety.
9 Make your cut.

I only ride the crane on the first inital pick. After that its all climbing.
Murder by numbers.


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## Dadatwins (Feb 19, 2004)

Having just done bunch of crane work after Isabel used method similar to others steel cable with clevis high up to keep limb butt heavy. Choke up on side to be lifted so limb does not spin after cut. Small notch in direction I want limb to go (away from me)
make back cut almost all the way the through. Back away and signal crane. Method works on most wood that pop. Stringy like elm is another story.
Used really good operator with 65 ton and 100 foot boom. Think operator makes all the difference best tree guy in the world with bad operator dangerous combo.


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## MasterBlaster (Feb 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Dadatwins _
> * Think operator makes all the difference best tree guy in the world with bad operator dangerous combo. *



When I have the unfortunate opportunity to work with a less than experienced crane operator I let him know that I expect him to follow my direction and hand signals.

That usually works.

But it is best when the two work together as one. Whoa... big insight!


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## Dadatwins (Feb 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *When I have the unfortunate opportunity to work with a less than experienced crane operator I let him know that I expect him to follow my direction and hand signals.
> *



And when operator screws up some of those hand signals and direction have nothing to do with tree.


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