# Received the Englander 28-3500 wood furnace yesterday



## aaronmach1 (Jan 10, 2014)

Finally got the englander 28-3500 yesterday off the the truck. Looks very nice and damn its heavy. Seems to be very well built. Opened everything up when i got home from work and found some where during shipping the top plate fell down and some brick bounced around, and it now has 3 broken firebrick. That sucks. Also on the top outer jacket where they had strapped it to the pallet for painting at the factory, the strap made a nice 3 inch dent. Not happy about that.
Started a fire in it outside my garage last night to burn off the oils etc to keep the bad smell out of the house. I think im going to like this design versus my old one. Ill know more this weekend if i can get this heavy beast down the basement stairs!
Im going to try and call Englander and see if they will do anything about the broken bricks and dented top.
Anyone know what the handle is for in my 3rd pic? Inside the heat outlet in the top.
See the pics below:


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 10, 2014)




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## aaronmach1 (Jan 10, 2014)

heres the dent on the left



And this is what it looked like first opened and the broken bricks.


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## Streblerm (Jan 10, 2014)

I hope it works out well for you. I am extremely happy with my Englander stove. It seems simple and well constructed.


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## alleyyooper (Jan 10, 2014)

I think the handle inside the heat duct is some thing England used to move the stove around. I have a hand truck that handles up to 800 pounds and the walk out basement made it easy to move the thing into the furnace room. My old wood burner was heavier though. If I had to take it down stairs I would rent an appliance dolly. that plate is shipped laying in the fire box you have to install it. The down turn part goes to the front.
I am really impressed with ours after those last very very cold days we have had this week with negative 45 wind chills and negative 30 regular temps.

Be prepared to wait for customer service help. I think it took over 20 minutes for me to get a human to talk to.

 Al


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 10, 2014)

thanks guys.
Alleyyooper, thanks for the info im getting alot of it from you on this burner and i appreciate it from a fellow owner of the same model. I even saw your review on home depots website. Great job! Also helped out knowing to burn it outside first, that was stinky!


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## brenndatomu (Jan 10, 2014)

Al is correct, that handle is a lifting lug. There is probably a second one toward the back too, likely tucked under the sheet metal now though.
Looks like it would be real easy to take the top sheet metal off and knock that dent out.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 10, 2014)

WOW!!!! very good customer service. After a 20 minute phone call (15 mins on hold) im receiving 3 new bricks, a new top panel and a new piece of glass because mine had a scratch on it. Now ill have a spare top and spare glass free of charge. I didnt expect anymore than the 3 bricks but the guy really hooked me up.


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## reaperman (Jan 10, 2014)

Being a wood furnace is insulated, its not a good idea to light a fire without the plenum fan operating. The furnace retains way too much heat without a method of dispersal. The side panels should always be taken off first. I hope you didnt warp the furnace


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 10, 2014)

reaperman said:


> Being a wood furnace is insulated, its not a good idea to light a fire without the plenum fan operating. The furnace retains way too much heat without a method of dispersal. The side panels should always be taken off first. I hope you didnt warp the furnace


i understand this, the fire was so small it didnt make much heat at all, i realize the function of the blower and took it into the consideration of the fire size i built. It was just enough to burn some chemical smell off, i do suspect i will still have some residue smell when i make a real fire in it. I garantee no harm done to it last night.
Was only 1 split of ash 16" long 3 inch wide by 2 inch thick and a small 16 inch stick 1.5 inch diameter and small scrap pine board for kindling, the blower never would have kicked on.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 10, 2014)

Also the peice of silver duct in the photo, i assume it goes on the heat oulet. How do i install it. Maybe i missed it in the manual, but i didnt see nothing. Slide it in and let it rest and bend all the tabs in?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 10, 2014)

aaronmach1 said:


> Slide it in and let it rest and bend all the tabs in?


Yup


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## CWME (Jan 10, 2014)

Take the broken fire bricks and swap them out for whole bricks that are laying on the floor of the firebox. Put the whole bricks on the side, problem solved. Put the plenum into the whole in the jacket and bend the tabs over to hold it in place.
Hope you have a lot of wood. Mine chews through a bunch rather quickly. When I was running it in the house I would let the bottom fill with ashes and contol the burn with the slide lever and a flue damper. That way I would have some coals in the ashes to get the fire going again in the mornings or when I got home in the afternoons. I would run two loads on a 10-15 degree day and 3 full loads on a colder day. I didn't need the capacity of the stove to heat my ranch running it this way.

When running it in my shop now I need everything it has to heat the place and it takes a load of wood every 4 hours when really cold out. That is with keeping the ashes to a min to get as much air in as I can.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 10, 2014)

what size is your shop? tall ceilings?


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## A.S.Woodchucker (Jan 10, 2014)

you get tired of the ol' JES 7900? or was it giving you more problems. Looks like a nice furnace. What does something like that run? $2K?


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## alleyyooper (Jan 11, 2014)

Doesn't even run 15K at either Lowe's 50.00 cheaper than HD (summer heat name) or at Home Depot even with shipping cost added in. If your a card holding Veteran you will get a 10% veterans discount also (if you ask) except at the Cadillac Michigan HD store it seems unless you are disabled. We rarely use the blower unless it is super cold and we want lots of heat up stairs *NOW.* Sure didn't appear to have any insulation around the furnace that I could see when inspection it. In fact I would feel it a dumb thing to do with the little puny 850 CFM fan any way, and the tiny 10 inch heat duct. My old add on had a 12 inch duct with a 1050 CFM fan and it was as bare as a new born bottom at birth inside. I just sat the starter in the hole and bent a few tabs as it isn't likely to jump in the air for any reason and hooked up the rest of the duct to my heating ducts.
I load mine with seasoned ash and adjust the slide and the draft at the bottom on the ash door at 8:00 AM it burns all day when we have our normal temps for this time of year nearly fully shut down and keeps the house at about 75-80F range. I fill it a second time at about 6:30 PM and it will burn all night where I set the slide and the draft for normal night time temps in this area. During our resent well below zero temps and even colder wind chills I ran the slide half open and the draft full open at the 6PM fill and got the house really warm clolest to 90F inside then filled the furnace again at 10:30 PM and shut the slide fully and just cracked the draft.

I am Happily impressed with the furnace and feel it was money well spent in these days when buying some thing usually leaves a sour taste in the mouth.
Another good thing about this furnace is how completely the wood burns. I now can use the drop spreader to spread ashes on Icy paths to the barn and honey house along with the driveway. So many bit unburnt coals with my old one you couldn't do that.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 11, 2014)

A.S.Woodchucker said:


> you get tired of the ol' JES 7900? or was it giving you more problems. Looks like a nice furnace. What does something like that run? $2K?


no i like my little johnson 7900 alot still. I actually wanted to keep it for my barn but insurance isnt working out with my current company, so i might have to sell it, but i hate to its in great shape.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 11, 2014)

Got the englander installed today guys. Other than the smell im lovin it. The chemical fumes about made me pass out so i vacated the house for a while and now its just lingering but it will pass.
Major question on my mind about the exhaust flue connection. see pic. WHY does the 6" black pipe fit "inside" the collar on the stove???? Seems it should have to go around the outside so no exhaust leaked out......My uncles norseman 2500 is the same exact way. guess its how they build em now???



Like i said shes all connected up and burning and throwing some serious heat. Far end of the house is getting alot more heat than it did with my old furnace even though it had a bigger blower. Must have something to do with only one heat supply on the englander and air moves faster i dont know but it works great.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 11, 2014)

Forgot to mention cold air return is not hooked back up yet but will come this week along with a fan box etc.


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## dustytools (Jan 11, 2014)

All of your flue pipes should be installed with the male end down. Keeps creosote from dripping out.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 11, 2014)

dustytools said:


> All of your flue pipes should be installed with the male end down. Keeps creosote from dripping out.


SO thats why they build them so the pipe fits inside? Must not have to worry about any exhaust gasses escaping.
I have never had creosote dripping down or anything dripping for that matter.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 11, 2014)

Wow this bugger puts out some heat! Its even making my gas furnace blower kick on every so often. Must be a trigger in the gas furnace that senses the temp and turn blower on once the duct plenum gets a certain temp or more.


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## zogger (Jan 11, 2014)

aaronmach1 said:


> Wow this bugger puts out some heat! Its even making my gas furnace blower kick on every so often. Must be a trigger in the gas furnace that senses the temp and turn blower on once the duct plenum gets a certain temp or more.



Good for you man, glad your new heater is working so well. Nice warm house is where it is at!


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## zogger (Jan 11, 2014)

aaronmach1 said:


> Wow this bugger puts out some heat! Its even making my gas furnace blower kick on every so often. Must be a trigger in the gas furnace that senses the temp and turn blower on once the duct plenum gets a certain temp or more.



Good for you man, glad your new heater is working so well. Nice warm house is where it is at!


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## brenndatomu (Jan 11, 2014)

aaronmach1 said:


> no i like my little johnson, i might have to sell it, but i hate to its in great shape.


 fixed it for ya...
Yup, flue pipe on most all wood burners are male pipe into female connector, creosote running down the outside of a hot pipe inside your house...not good.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 11, 2014)

Cant wait to try this thing when it gets cold out again. Problem today its 9:20pm and its still 32 degrees out. 
Hey *Alleyyooper*, do you have any problems getting the flue temps up? I have the magnetic temp gauge on the pipe and best i have got it was up to 300 degrees. I hate the thought of making creosote do to cool pipe. Just had to change into shorts and t-shirt getting warm in here.


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## NSMaple1 (Jan 11, 2014)

Mag guages read way low.

Like 100c low.


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## johnnylabguy (Jan 11, 2014)

Nice furnace! I wish my HotBlast 1557 had that viewing window! Best of luck with it!


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## flotek (Jan 11, 2014)

They are well made but do eat a good amount of firewood and will require manual adjustments through the burn cycle


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 11, 2014)

If i put my hand by the exhaust flue collar right where it comes out of the stove, and i can feel a breeze coming out. Shut off the blower and breeze is gone. Must be some air blowing by the collar ring that fastens around the flue collar and it gets out when the blower is running. Carbon monoxide detector hasnt went off so must all be clean air.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 11, 2014)

I will say i have no idea what im doing for settings but the little bits of wood im putting in are throwing heat and burning longer than my old furnace did. have 3 settings to figure out dial draft on ash pan, slide draft above the door and the flue draft i put in the exhaust pipe.


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## Woodchucker Ron (Jan 11, 2014)

The main trunk of my duct work has a baffle in it to prevent the heat from the wood furnace to back flow into the gas furnace.


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## flotek (Jan 11, 2014)

The Englander is s box with baffle it doesn't have a heat exchanger the jacket is sround tthe flue so no need for alarm if you a feel a draft around theflue collar just run a bead of furnace cement around that edge


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

Del_ said:


> Is your new furnace blowing heat into the duct work that is going down into the gas furnace and heating up it's heat exchanger? If so that may be what is kicking on the gas furnace fan. Will you be using the gas furnace? If not you may want to consider turning it off for the season and blocking it's chimney. Draft air pulled up the furnace chimney is heated room air plus it's pulling heat from the gas furnace heat exchanger and up the chimney. Can be a significant heat loss. Put a not on the gas furnace valve stating that the chimney is closed or better yet lock off the gas furnace valve.
> 
> Very nice looking set up!


yes its connecting into the ductwork plenum above the gas furnace. the gas furnace fan kicks on when the plenum gets too hot i guess. If im loosing any heat through the gas furnace flue then im ok with it, its never been an issue in the last few years burning wood. 
I havnt fired the gas furnace up in probably 2 years and the propane tanks has been empty that long. I dont mind the gas furnace blower kicking on, I guess it keeps my ductwork from over heating where it enters the duct plenum and runs right into its one side then disperses.


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## Woodchucker Ron (Jan 12, 2014)

Might want to look into heat entering back into your gas furnace and burning out your heat exchanger or other components on your gas furnace. Did your fan in your gas furnace kick on with your last set up?


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## laynes69 (Jan 12, 2014)

I highly doubt the heat exchanger on the central furnace will get burned out from the wood furnace. The heat exchanger on a gas furnace operates at a much higher temperature. The reason why your central furnace is turning on, is due to the lack of a backdraft damper. Your tripping your fan control on the central furnace because it's back feeding. You need a damper in the system to prevent this.


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## alleyyooper (Jan 12, 2014)

I called England when hooking up the furnace about installing an elbow inside my huge duct from the electric furnace to direct the heat away from the electric parts. Was told not to worry about it.* I asked at that time about a draft in the stove pipe and was told it wasn't needed to just use the top slide draft and the bottom ash door damper.* Also my stove pipe goes straight up to with in 20 inches of the ceiling joist 90 degrees into a T and 90degrees up. The T is the clean out I set a steel bucket under and pull the plug and go on the roof to run the brush down to clean it. No need to climb on the roof with this furnace as it is burning so clean I keep wondering what was wrong with my old wood furnace, AH !! The damper in the stove pipe is gone. Will take a bit to learn just where to set the slide and damper to get the heat you want but before long yopu will look at the out side tempo and the inside temp and say OK slide 1/4 open and a turn open on the draft. I open the slide fully to fill with wood then pretty much close it and use the damper to control the burn.
Been a lot of ice here this winter so far, those baking floor fine ashes sure are nice to making walking the walks safe. I keep two kettles of water on the furnace to help with the low winter moisture content in the house too.
I think you will earn you are not crazy about the sash pan set up either. Pan is to small to catch all that falls they collecting on the sides. when you try to scrap them out into the pan you get bad dust. I haven't tried a ash shovel yet but think the same dust will raise when you dump the shovel in a pain. I'm going to try the shop vac with a couple inches of water in the bottom to cool the hot coals to see if that will work with a extra fine dust filter.
I didn't really see how much dust I get till I took a picture the other day.

 Al


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## NSMaple1 (Jan 12, 2014)

aaronmach1 said:


> I will say i have no idea what im doing for settings but the little bits of wood im putting in are throwing heat and burning longer than my old furnace did. have 3 settings to figure out dial draft on ash pan, slide draft above the door and the flue draft i put in the exhaust pipe.


 
If you want to eliminate the guess work & tune it in with some confidence & real data - get a Dwyer Mark II Model 25 manometer, and maybe an IR thermo gun. They don't cost that much, you could likely get both for less than $100. You can set your chimney draft to what its supposed to be, and get your ductwork static pressure to where it's supposed to be, and get everything balanced. Number 1 cause of heat loss would likely be too much draft, the Dwyer will tell you what you've got with no guessing. Looks like a key damper in your flue pipe? A barometric damper will give much better & more consistent draft control. For example, if it's windy or real cold out, your chimney will pull much more draft - you might be able to damp that down with the key damper, but if a gust of wind moves it around some (and it can, from experience) it might close it up some, or conditions might change, & you might get smoke & CO back into your house in both cases.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

thanks guys lots of great info that i can reread through this morning. Very interesting about no flue pipe damper alleyyooper. Ill try mine full open and see how it does. thats going to be weird not using that!
First night last night not knowing what i was doing and it thew heat for *9.5 hours* before i checked it! Blower was running and the log was still about 4 inches wide and 8 inches long chunk burning red with red coals around it! I only put one log in it last night before bed.(elm 10 inch wide by 18 inch long). Bottom dial out one turn slider 3/4 closed and flue pipe damper 60% closed. Im super happy i never had 9.5 hour burn before!
Im just not sure why the stove pipe temp stays so cool. chimeny is smoking and it shouldnt be if its burning clean. Its a struggle to get the temp to 300. And i always like to burn 300 or little more to prevent creosote. No problem getting the firebox hot, limit fan switch is usually sitting at the 150 to 160 mark while fan running constant. And now im running the stove pipe damper full open too.


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## flotek (Jan 12, 2014)

When I had one I found that Englander doesn't like customers using a flue in line damper . I added one
about a foot up off the collar anyways onnly closed it at 45 degrees ( only after it was going good and hot. ) and burned only well seasoned wood and swept chimney 3 times per winter ...for some I'd agree with England on not using one but drafts and wood quality and peoples settings vary a lot and for me This inline damper mod added about 1-2 hrs of burn time on average over just using the slide and lower ash spin knob like they swear by. Englander is a good company and honors they stuff you won't find a company more helpful to their customers on warranty issues and they are regular hard working guys right in Virginia that walk you through any issues


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

37 degrees out today, had to quit burning. house is 77 degrees. Ill have to experiment more with the stove pipe damper allways open. I have a good bit of draft, i can see ashes blowing around through the glass. and if i open the ash pan door some ash blows around down there. But even with all the dampers open i havnt been able to get over 300 degrees. 
I went up and looked down the chimney and it looks pretty good for now. Wish i could figure the cold flue temp issue out though. Thats my issue right now, other than that this thing is making me very happy.


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## NSMaple1 (Jan 12, 2014)

How are you measuring flue temps? If with a magnetic guage see post #28.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

NSMaple1 said:


> How are you measuring flue temps? If with a magnetic guage see post #28.


yes magnetic on the stove pipe. My old furnace easily got it up to 400 stack temps. Thats what im going by. Never had creosote issues with the old one buring in the 300-400 temp range. Cleaned the chimeny once a year with minimal creosote dust. Just trying to follow the same path with this one.
Heck i cant even barely burn off the new black stove pipe. The price scan tags are still stuck on it barely turned light tan.
Im also AMAZED at how long this thing makes heat enough to run the blower even after the wood is gone. Must have somthing to do with the firebrick lining the inside alot more than the old one. Seems like the blower is always on fire going or not hahaha. Hopefully the blower dont burn up from constant use.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 12, 2014)

400* on the outside equals roughly 800* inside, way more than you need to keep the flue clean. Just FYI, I run 8-900* internal temps briefly when I'm on high fire after a fresh load of wood, my pipe hasn't "burnt off" it's still the same satin black as when I bought it. (unless you are just referring to curing the paint/burning off the oil)(I know they get more of a flat black after overfire)
Installing a key damper, or even better, a barometric damper, can't hurt, can only help, especially a properly set baro, helps make running a wood furnace a pleasure! I went on fleabay, found a Dwyer Mark II manometer for under $20 to my door (twice now) and I have it mounted on the wall next to my furnace, hooked up all the time, it just eliminates one more large variable, for me, that's worth $20!


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

well i just cant get a "good" fire going in it now. Only second time starting one in it. To start i tried their instructions but they dont work.
I have to start a fire with the ash door open and all dampers open. As soon as i shut the ash door the flame dies down. And if i do like they say and have the ash door shut, ash door dial closed and the slide open the fire will die out.
The flame is always what i call a dark flame unless i have the ash door open. ill post some pics soon


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

here its burning with ash door open. A good bright flame:



one minute later,
here it is when i shut the ash door and ash door dial closed. slide open.



When this happened yesterday (the first time i lit it after setup) I just added more wood and it took right off. Tonight i just wanted a small 3 split fire till right before bed. Cant do small fires with this furnace? Have to load it up full every loading?


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## brenndatomu (Jan 12, 2014)

Hmmm, do you have any pallet wood or small kiln dried stuff layin around that you could throw in, see if that will stay burning? Surely don't have a plugged up chimney or cap already, you think?


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> Hmmm, do you have any pallet wood or small kiln dried stuff layin around that you could throw in, see if that will stay burning? Surely don't have a plugged up chimney or cap already, you think?


i was just looking down chimney today. Wide open no issues. With the ash door open, ashes get sucked right up the flue. and actually with it closed i can see ashes moving around from the breeze. This wood is 2.5 year split stacked ash that was dead.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

and here it is after 10 mins after closing ash door but leaving slide open fully and ash door dial open all way.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 12, 2014)

Gotta be the wood...
Edit: just seen your recent post. Maybe a case of too much fuel for the fire. If I open the ash door (happens very rarely) to get things going good, then shut it quickly, with the fire not being able to breath from under the fire, the fire dies down quickly, but will usually slowly recover at some point.
1. You are suddenly changing the airflow through the fire...
2. You are overwhelming the fire with raw fuel and not enough air to support combustion. Kinda like slapping the choke shut on a warm engine, just gonna stall...
I'd leave the ash drawer air control open a good bit 'til fire is established


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> Gotta be the wood...


ok ill go down and throw a peice of bone dry elm in and see whats happens. be right back.


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## NSMaple1 (Jan 12, 2014)

Re-split into smaller pieces.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 12, 2014)

See my edit on post #52. You put up #51 while I was typing I guess.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

ok i threw a small peice of bone dry elm in and a small slice of very dry walnut as u can see. i now have alot of flame. still what i call dark flame but i have more flame now. with same settings dial all way open and slide all way open.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> Gotta be the wood...
> Edit: just seen your recent post. Maybe a case of too much fuel for the fire. If I open the ash door (happens very rarely) to get things going good, then shut it quickly, with the fire not being able to breath from under the fire, the fire dies down quickly, but will usually slowly recover at some point.
> 1. You are suddenly changing the airflow through the fire...
> 2. You are overwhelming the fire with raw fuel and not enough air to support combustion. Kinda like slapping the choke shut on a warm engine, just gonna stall...
> I'd leave the ash drawer air control open a good bit 'til fire is established


i understand what your saying and your probably right. This may be part of the problem, as they do say in the manual 15 mins of the door open after starting kindling then add splits with door open 1/2 inch 15 mins then add wood with door 1/2 inch open for 15 mins then close door


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

been about ten minutes. have good amount of flame but still dark flame. Fan blower running thermo disc at 150 and outside flue temp is 280.
Slide all way open and dial on ash door all way open also.


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## brenndatomu (Jan 12, 2014)

Can a fire be built without opening the ash door, just open the ash door air control? 
Just FYI, if ya gonna open the door to establish, get a manual wind up kitchen timer to put by the furnace, set for 5, 10, 15, mins, whatever, just so you don't forget. Life happens, phone rings, doorbell, kid falls down the stairs, It'd suck to come back from the ER to find toasted house, think, OH CRAP! I left the ash door open! 
I'm surprised they endorse that in the manual, both of my manuals say to NEVER do that!


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 12, 2014)

they say in manual never open ash door while burning. I can start a fire with ash door closed but its real slow burning dark flame cold fire.
Well guys i definalty have to relearn how to burn with this new furnace i guess. I really apreciate so much for you you guys helping out with this. Getn up at the alarm clock at 4am so im headed to bed. Please keep posting any info that may help. You guys are really helping me learn this new burner!


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## flotek (Jan 12, 2014)

Watch leaving that ash door openit turbo chargers the load by introducing air from underneath the fire it can be really dangerous if you go upstairs to get a cuppa coffee and forget about it and have a full load of wood you can overfire still pretty quick this way and it's dangerous I warped their heavy steel baffle in less than 10 minutes this way the phone rang I was upstairs talking to my buddy and I smelled that burning paint burning dust smell .. I raced downstairs and I was like oh crap. !


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## flotek (Jan 12, 2014)

These furnaces like air like any furnace you can't damper it down and close the door till she's good and ready and expect the fire to be worth a darn . It almost requires " sacrificial wood " to get the firebox hot enough to do normal burning procedure . In the dead of winter where it's always going it's not such a big deal but in shoulder seasons it can be wasting wood ..This is one of the reasons why I prefer my new one over the Englander. I found This stove isn't really what idcall a wood hog compared to some of its similar box store cousins but it will burn through a cord pretty quick once you get a real cold spell for a week or two . I'd go through around 6 full cords a year with mine but it did heat the house good and to its credit it's safe and made well


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 13, 2014)

Things im wondering about. I forgot yesterday i closed my make up air vent that brings fresh air into the basment through a 5 inch pipe. Maybe thats causing problems due to not having my blower hooked up to cold air return yet.
Also with temps in the mid to high 30s yesterday and last night that also may be adding to the difficulties.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 13, 2014)

this company is unbelievable! I just called them and said my blower is viberating the thermo dial and making some noise. Is there anything i can do to make it a little quieter? The guy said ok i will have a new blower shipping out to you today. is there anything else i can do for you? WOW i cant beleive how well they have been taking care of me.


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## naturelover (Jan 13, 2014)

Though I haven't had to use it, have read that Englanders customer service is top notch. 


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


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## reaperman (Jan 13, 2014)

I bought a englander 13ncl a few years ago from home depot on sale. I use it in one of my out buildings during cold snaps, it was my first epa stove. In my house I run a firechief wood furnace. My prior stove was a smoke dragon, but she threw out heat. With that said, when I first started using the 13, it took forever to get a fire going. And what seemed like eternity to get it to put out any heat. Especially compared to my old dragon that threw out heat as soon as the match was lit. My findings were, without a bed of coals my fire was useless. The stove is double walled so it took heat longer to penetrate to the outer surface. The biggest factor was I needed at least 2" of ashes on the bottom of the stove for best results. The combustion air doesnt come "under" the fire like a non epa stove. It's not like opening a ash pan in your previous wood furnace, or a older woodstove to get a fire roaring in no time. The combustion air comes over the top of a fire, which is harder to get a fire started. I know your new furnace is designed different than a wood stove but the principle is the same. By leaving ashes build up a bit, it helps to get some air under the fire in my 13, thus getting it going quicker. I think once you start burning constantly and have a good coal bed built up, things will run more smoothly. Not to mention the learning curve that comes with a new toy.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 13, 2014)

wow its going alot better tonight. learning more now and i think i was throwing wood in and closing the door /dampers to quickly. Lot better results tonight and opening up my fresh air supply also probably helped. Still the flue temps like to only run 150 to 200 degrees on the magnetic thermometer on the stove pipe. But im ok with that if its burning clean and it is. Very little smoke out of the chimney once its going. *Wonder how often you other owners clean your glass*. I find myself doing it everyday so far, i really like a clear veiw of my fire!
Definatly cant "man handle it" and damp it down like i did with the old one. Takes a little more finess but the longer cleaner burns a worth it. Really liking the englander more and more. Give me some cold weather!


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 16, 2014)

Got the cold air system hooked up and a filter box after a little modification last night. Working great! heres some pictures for anyone interested.


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## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

Curious?? Is that the recommended size for the return air??
The reason I'm asking is the "rule-of-thumb" is to have at least the same size return as the outlet... usually a bit larger is even better to allow for elbows and such.
I'm also curious if the gas furnace blower is still starting up now that the return is connected. If it is, you really should install some sort of backdraft damper. In most gas furnaces the heat sensor that turns on the blower is located in the heat exchanger... and if it's getting hot enough to start the blower you have warm air traveling backwards in the ducts. That can cause a "loop" where the return is pulling warm air from the duct, backwards through the gas furnace, and back into the wood furnace. Over time the velocity and volume of reverse air can steadily increase until it adversely effects the heating ability... and could possibly overheat the wood furnace (not sure how likely that would be, but it is possible). If you don't use the gas furnace there's actually a very simple and easy way to install a backdraft damper... just replace the gas furnace filter with something solid like a piece of sheet metal, plywood, or even stiff cardboard. Ya' just haf'ta remember to remove the damper if ya' ever do use the gas furnace.
*


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 16, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Curious?? Is that the recommended size for the return air??
> The reason I'm asking is the "rule-of-thumb" is to have at least the same size return as the outlet... usually a bit larger is even better to allow for elbows and such.
> I'm also curious if the gas furnace blower is still starting up now that the return is connected. If it is, you really should install some sort of backdraft damper. In most gas furnaces the heat sensor that turns on the blower is located in the heat exchanger... and if it's getting hot enough to start the blower you have warm air traveling backwards in the ducts. That can cause a "loop" where the return is pulling warm air from the duct, backwards through the gas furnace, and back into the wood furnace. Over time the velocity and volume of reverse air can steadily increase until it adversely effects the heating ability... and could possibly overheat the wood furnace (not sure how likely that would be, but it is possible). If you don't use the gas furnace there's actually a very simple and easy way to install a backdraft damper... just replace the gas furnace filter with something solid like a piece of sheet metal, plywood, or even stiff cardboard. Ya' just haf'ta remember to remove the damper if ya' ever do use the gas furnace.
> *


I have and 8 inch heat supply going out and an 8 inch cold air coming in to the filter box. Also couple small vents for extra air in addition to the 8 in supply line.They dont mention anything on cold air returns in the manual for this wood burner.
When the gas furnace runs its only for a minute or 2 when the plenum gets hot enough to trip it. 98% of the time the wood burner is burning the gas furnace blower never runs.( only runs when im cranking some serious heat)
Also the cold air return runs 20 feet away from the gas furnace then taps into the cold air system so as to not pull heat through the furnace. seems to work well.( i cant test the flow direction tonight with some candle smoke.)
I have heard the cardboard stopper before to replace the gas furnace filter, i just think its handy having the gas blower runs when the plenum reaches the real hot point just for a safety feature kinda.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 16, 2014)

I should be good right? 
Also i forgot to mention adding the filter box on made the blower sound almost silent. Very nice.


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## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

I see... in the pic the return pipe looked smaller than the outlet pipe to me.

If the gas furnace blower starts, even for a minute or only occasionally, it means you have a backdraft problem... warm air is being pulled and/or forced *down* into the heat exchanger of the gas furnace, and there's enough of it to trip the heat switch (that means a considerable amount). It doesn't matter how far your return is from the gas furnace, when the wood furnace blower is running you have (relative) low pressure in all of the the return ducting, and (relative) high pressure in all of the the heat ducting. Air will flow from a high pressure zone to a low pressure zone... that's just the nature of things.

Hey, I ain't sayin' you're gonna' die, or the world will end... but what's happening ain't right. Don't believe me?? Go talk to a HVAC man; see if he don't tell ya' to correct it ASAP... or sooner.
Besides, if you get backdraft from the wood furnace blower when the gas furnace blower ain't running... the vice versa is also likely.
Think about that... durning reversed air flow (from either blower) you're actually suckin' or blowin' the dirt off your filter(s) and introducing it back into the ducting.
*


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 16, 2014)

thanks for bringing this up, i sent an email to tech support and seeing what they suggest for their furnace setup /cold air return, since they mention nothing in the manual.
I see what you mean about the back draft damper in the gas furnace. I remember a post i read last week of *alleyyoopers*. He has same englander 28-3500, and englanders tech line told him dont worry about a damper in the gas furnace its not needed. I appreciate your help ,ill be checking into this setup. thanks whitespider!


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## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

No... *alleyyooper* was talking about a flue damper in the chimney pipe to the wood furnace... better read that again.
*


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 16, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> No... *alleyyooper* was talking about a flue damper in the chimney pipe to the wood furnace... better read that again.
> *


Yes he said that also, not sure if it was the same post or not. But he also asked about a back draft damper to protect the a coil and such inside his gas furnace and they said no back draft damper is needed. Im waiting for their reply to me on this.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 16, 2014)

so far this is what they have told me today, #3 is reffering to a magnetic thermometer on the stove pipe.

1. 8 inch is enough for the blower.
2. i would not use the one on the ash door except at start up. we do not recommend a damper in the pipe, i could hinder draw. however, since it is there you could try slowing down more with it. this leads to number 3.
3. i would keep the temp above 300 or more, the flue gases need to maintain from top to bottom abour 220 degrees.


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## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

(shrug) Like I said, the sky ain't gonna' fall... it's your call.
*


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 16, 2014)

They replied. "yes you will need the back draft damper". 
is there a recommended one? I have never seen one for in the furnace. Must be big.


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## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

As far as I know you can't buy a back draft damper because every system is different... it needs to be fabricated, on site, to fit your system.
I made my own, but any HVAC guy should be able to fix ya' up... or, like I said, just block off the filter when you're not using the gas furnace.
It don't matter a whole lot where it's located as long as it effectively stops the reverse flow of air... although, if it automatically opens and closes (usually by static pressure), it is best if it's located just above the heat exchanger.
*


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 16, 2014)

thanks! for tonight ill shut the power off to the gas furnace and shove a blocker into the filter slot.
I assume i cant over heat the metal duct without the gas furnace blower to cool the plenum down right? The ductwork is from 1985 so it should be heavy duty.


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## reaperman (Jan 16, 2014)

What the hvac guy did that installed my Lp furnace and wood furnace (new home construction) was install a louver directly above my LP furnace. When the LP furnace or air conditioner kick in, it blows the louver open then falls closed when the blower stops. This prevents backdrafting from the wood furnace into the LP unit.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 16, 2014)

reaperman said:


> What the hvac guy did that installed my Lp furnace and wood furnace (new home construction) was install a louver directly above my LP furnace. When the LP furnace or air conditioner kick in, it blows the louver open then falls closed when the blower stops. This prevents backdrafting from the wood furnace into the LP unit.


ok, im picturing what you are saying. Do you have an "a coil"? i have an "a" coill for the central ac in the plenum of my gas furnace. Its above the gas furnace and a "couple inches maybe" below where the wood furnace heat comes into the plenum. Im thinking i may not have room for a damper or louver damper in there.


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## Whitespider (Jan 16, 2014)

aaronmach1 said:


> *I assume i cant over heat the metal duct without the gas furnace blower to cool the plenum down right? The ductwork is from 1985 so it should be heavy duty.*



Your ducting should be fine (should be)... unless you over fire or overheat the wood furnace.
I believe (if I'm remembering correctly) a minimum rating of 200° is "standard"... the metal will handle much more than that, it's more about clearances to combustibles I think.
*


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 16, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Your ducting should be fine (should be)... unless you over fire or overheat the wood furnace.
> I believe (if I'm remembering correctly) a minimum rating of 200° is "standard"... the metal will handle much more than that, it's more about clearances to combustibles I think.
> *


thanks, i thought ive read 200 degrees on here before but i couldnt remember for sure.


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## flotek (Jan 16, 2014)

A lot of people cheat Recommended clearances on ducting because they think it doesn't get hot enough to cause any fire issue and for the most part that's true but those recommendations are there for a reason they are listed for extreme circumstances in an over heat situation like if the power goes and you have a hundred pounds of red oak blazing away in your furnace with no blower operation. ..not normal operation


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## OnTheRoad (Jan 24, 2014)

Glad to see you having good luck with your new Englander. In my predicament, an add-on furnace is probably the best option, and the Englander seems like a solid unit at a great price. Have you seen the youtube videos where people have added secondary burn circuits to these stoves? It looks like a significant improvement.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 24, 2014)

yes, this furnace is working out very good now!!! 40 mile an hour winds at below zero and im easily at 76f in here. Dont even have to crank it up to maintain a steady 76f all day. Very good overnight burns way better than my old unit. Finally learning the unit and how to work it the best.
Ya, i have seen the secondary burn you tube videos but im not buying into it. Also not going to hack up my new furnace. Anyway im already seeing a secondary burn of sort above the normal fire. Watching mine through the window looks like the same effect the guys has in the videos with the tubes. So are his modifications working? Maybe for him but for me mine is working great as is.


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## OnTheRoad (Jan 25, 2014)

That's interesting re; the secondary burn in your unit. As with just about every other piece of equipment, one user loves his and the next loathes it. Some Englander owners complain about short burn times but others, like you, have no problem running it over night. That's a primary concern here, as I am away from the house all day during the week.

Does anybody have the firebox dimensions?


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## mopar969 (Feb 14, 2014)

In the description part is the firebox dimensions here:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Englande...Add-On-Furnace-28-3500/100185844?N=5yc1vZc4ky

I have the englander 30 and it has been junk for me from the get go. Needless to say I am looking at buying the englander furnace. 
I should have done this form the beginning but I was convinced that the epa stove would save me on wood no its not.

Anyone want to trade their englander furnace for my 30?


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## mopar969 (Feb 14, 2014)

Also, 
*aaronmach1* what is your chimney setup? bends height lined masonry etc...

It is good to hear you are getting easy burn times I think your draft setting then is ideal also you still running it with the flue pipe damper?


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## flotek (Feb 14, 2014)

The nc 30 Is great .. It's known for its ability to throw heat and get 10 hour burns however it requires really dry wood .. One thing I miss about my old Englander furnace is that it was not picky on wood seasoning much you can get good results with half seasoned wood if you give her a little more air . An EPA furnace just plain sucks with half seasoned wood if it will even stay going. My new one burns longer but the Englander oughta get 8 hrs if packed up with the good stuff . The People complaining are usually newbies to wood heat or they are too dumb to understand how the air control works and run it wide open and just torch their wood off in a couple hours. The Englander can get a little secondary action if it's burning really hot and the top slide is open to half it isn't true secondary burning like if you had dedicated air coming into burn tubes


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## mopar969 (Feb 14, 2014)

Thats part of my problem with 21 22% wood the 30 will not even get past like 300 for me I think that is crazy but then again my chimney does not have a strong draft too so it has to go.

However, it makes me wonder what the chimney setup is for the OP since he is getting a secondary combustion in firebox which is good.


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## alleyyooper (Feb 15, 2014)

I also have the England 28 3000. I love this furnace compared to my 30 plus year old unit it replaced. My stove pipe goes into the 30 plus year old double wall non insulated chimney use of one 90 degree elbow and with no stove pipe damper per England recommendations when I called and asked since it wasn't in the owners manual. I am burning seasoned Ash and keep the coldest room in the house at 78F even during the 28 below wind chill days with out even turning on the blower. Of course my house is well insulated being built in 79 for electric heat. I get all night burns on those really cold nights but fill it earlier at 6:00 AM instead of at 8:00 AM on our normal winter temps. I get all day burns with it by filling with a big round I can handle then packing smaller stuff around the round. Shut it tight and return 10 hours latter to a nice bed of coals and a warm house.
After 4 month of use I would buy the same unit again just like how ell it works.
I would not mess with it either, happy with the performance as is.

 Al


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## mopar969 (Feb 15, 2014)

Hey, 
*alleyyooper* what is the height of you chimney? Just curios since you are getting great results.


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## alleyyooper (Feb 16, 2014)

It starts at the basement ceiling goes thru the first floor ceiling then about 4 foot of attic and about 3 feet over the roof . I have a roof picture some place I will attempt to find. OH! Did I mention no cresol? None Nada.





I had started to rake the insulation off the roof so I wouldn't get a dumb ice dam from the gutters.

 Al


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## zogger (Feb 16, 2014)

alleyyooper said:


> It starts at the basement ceiling goes thru the first floor ceiling then about 4 foot of attic and about 3 feet over the roof . I have a roof picture some place I will attempt to find. OH! Did I mention no cresol? None Nada.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The broiler houses here have snow doors. These are trap doors that open the ceiling so heat can get directly to the metal roofs and melt the snow and ice off. They started adding them to houses after storm of the century in 93 when so many got damaged from ice buildup.


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## aaronmach1 (Feb 17, 2014)

lovin this englander 28-3500! working great. I did recently clean the chimeny and it had a small amount of creosote which was the most ive had in my 4 yrs of burning. So i quit using the flue damper in the stove pipe problem solved. Awesome burns.
My chimeny is about 18 foot tall id guess. One story house with basement. Wood burner is in basment. Masonary chimeny with 8x12 or so clay liner and then i put a stainless steel 6x8 or so liner in it.
i have around 5ft of stove pipe leading to the chimney in basement. With 2 slight angles and then once into the chimeny there is a 90degree bend and staight up the chimeny it goes.
see page one of this post thread for couple pics of it installed in my basement.


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## ziggo_2 (Feb 17, 2014)

I have a anti-backdraft damper in the ducts for each furnace....i strongly recommend them! The 8'' round ones can be bought the other one is custom made, by a company (cant remember name) but i went through crappie keith from yukon furnaces, just gave him the measurments and sent a check, arrived at my door in a week or 2. excellent quality!....but a good hvac guy should be able to get one made for you. Both the dampers i have open by force of air and close automatically. 

I dont know about your furnace but...the hvac guy that replaced one of those heat sensors told me the reason it went out is because they are not meant to be tripped on a regular basis, they can only be tripped so many times and then they fail. That is why you need a quality damper to block the air flow!

As for your flue temps.....those magnetic temp gauges are *JUNK*! They are *NOT *accurate!


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## aaronmach1 (Feb 17, 2014)

ziggo_2 said:


> I dont know about your furnace but...the hvac guy that replaced one of those heat sensors told me the reason it went out is because they are not meant to be tripped on a regular basis, they can only be tripped so many times and then they fail.


well i must have a good one. This house was setup this way way before i owned it. Was built in 1982 and this is the 3rd wood furnace set up this way in this house with the same lp furnace and ductwork.


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## ziggo_2 (Feb 17, 2014)

aaronmach1 said:


> well i must have a good one. This house was setup this way way before i owned it. Was built in 1982 and this is the 3rd wood furnace set up this way in this house with the same lp furnace and ductwork.


if its an older furnace they handle the heat much better but you will still be more efficient if you had those dampers


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## Woodchucker Ron (Feb 17, 2014)

ziggo_2 said:


> I have a anti-backdraft damper in the ducts for each furnace....i strongly recommend them! The 8'' round ones can be bought the other one is custom made, by a company (cant remember name) but i went through crappie keith from yukon furnaces, just gave him the measurments and sent a check, arrived at my door in a week or 2. excellent quality!....but a good hvac guy should be able to get one made for you. Both the dampers i have open by force of air and close automatically.
> 
> I dont know about your furnace but...the hvac guy that replaced one of those heat sensors told me the reason it went out is because they are not meant to be tripped on a regular basis, they can only be tripped so many times and then they fail. That is why you need a quality damper to block the air flow!
> 
> As for your flue temps.....those magnetic temp gauges are *JUNK*! They are *NOT *accurate!






I tried to tell him that on page 2.


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