# Arming Maine Forest Rangers



## Flat47 (Jan 23, 2014)

I can't believe this is even being debated. Law enforcment officers not allowed to carry guns:

http://bangordailynews.com/2014/01/...committee-approval-despite-uncertain-funding/

These are the men and women protecting Maine woodlands from fire, theft and vandalism. I e-mailed my local rep and the Gov.


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## slowp (Jan 23, 2014)

I never felt the urge to pack a gun. It would have just been additional weight and bulk to pack around, and I might have shot some loggers. Instead of throwing rocks at trees and stuff to kill time waiting for somebody to show up, I might have been tempted to shoot trees for fun. Nope, never felt like I needed a gun in the woods.


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## hanniedog (Jan 23, 2014)

Did you have the option of carrying a side arm?


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## lmbrman (Jan 23, 2014)

hanniedog said:


> Did you have the option of carrying a side arm?


 
I don't think Patti and guns mix well-



slowp said:


> I might have been tempted to shoot trees for fun.


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## slowp (Jan 24, 2014)

hanniedog said:


> Did you have the option of carrying a side arm?


 
Nope. It's against the rules. There's really no need. The wildlife takes off. I guess a bad person might do something, but that is so rare. We generally are carrying a lot of stuff so having to carry a gun and ammo? It doesn't make sense. If the job is that dangerous, I wouldn't have been working at it. 

Just an example. Marking timber? You've got at least a gallon of paint to pack, if gone all day think two gallons, plus drinking water, plus radio, plus munchies, plus bandaids, plus jacket, plus spencer tape, plus data recorder, plus whatever you measure heights with, and other necessities. 

Fire fighting? Why? You're packing stuff again. Sometimes a lot of stuff. Our crew had a radio melt a bit one time. I don't think I'd want to have ammo on me. Besides, I think our crew boss might have taken a few shots at one of the helicopters that didn't bring us food and sleeping bags, after he'd run out of cigarettes and snoose. He flipped them off.

Reality TV plus over hype of danger makes things sound worse than they really are.


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## northmanlogging (Jan 24, 2014)

for inforcement around here the FS uses sharrifs or Fed marshalls, its completely pointless for the average FS ranger to be wandering around with weapons. The game wardens on the other hand they have to deal with drunk wanna be hunters... sometimes they have to shoot back.

And for park rangers to start carrying weapons, well that is a line in the sand for someone, regular folks can't so now the park service can?


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## jpj6780 (Jan 24, 2014)

No gub'ment official should have basic rights otherwise denied to citizens. I think anyone should be able to carry. Don't know why you'd walk in the woods without a sidearm of some variety, but if we can't, I don't think they should either. 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


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## GRTimberCO (Jan 24, 2014)

*Maine Forest Ranger Thomas Liba stands in woods near an illegal maple syrup operation in the Katahdin region in March 2013. A bill being debated in legislature aims to provide guns and training to state forest rangers.* 

Article says he's facing the criminals from an illegal maple syrup operation... really? Are Aunt Jemima and Mrs. Butterworth running thug operations these days on the mean streets of Skowhegan?

Our National Forests are drawing criminals growing pot, sometimes cooking meth. I'm not a professional forester but we carry when we wonder around in the woods down here.


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## slowp (Jan 24, 2014)

OK, I'm outta here before this turns into the usual YOU MUST CARRY A GUN BECAUSE IT IS SO DANGEROUS. 

And my 32 YEARS IN THE WOODS AND NEVER NEEDED ONE.

Then you'll say, BUT YOU MIGHT COULD NEED ONE JUST ONCE IS ALL IT TAKES

And I'll remind you THE WOODS ARE SAFE AND THE EXTRA WEIGHT OF SOMETHING I DON'T NEED IS REDICULOUS.

And on it will go except I'm done with this topic.

We head back to town immediately if we run into a meth lab or garden. We don't stay and start a shoot out. We're foresters, not law enforcement. We can choose who to get out and check permits with, or who to leave for the guys with guns. Besides, most folks are aware that should you shoot or threaten a federal employee, you are in a heap of trouble. 

I have had folks yelling in my face. The last was a tea partyer who went into a rant about how they were going to do away with the Forest Service and I'd be out of a job. A very rude man. I said, good. The other time? It was a druggie turned evangelist who started yelling and telling me I was going to hell. I loaded up my stuff, and moved to a whole different area. 

That's all I can remember. Most folks don't venture much off the road. Bears are hunted and so are very shy of people. We don't have grizzlies, or moose. I've only seen a couple of cougars. When I walked back to the pickup one time I saw cougar tracks in my tracks in the snow. That was a little creepy, but I got over it. Our woods are different than those of the southeast. They may be more like Maine's in that we have very large areas with no roads or any settlements. The majority of people won't work that hard to go in and shoot a forester. 

There have been two National Park rangers shot and killed. They were law enforcement rangers with guns. The one guy set out to kill a law enforcement officer, the other guy shot an LEO who chased him when he ran a roadblock. Both never made it to trial. I think the first killed himself, the second was killed by Mt. Rainier--hypothermia. They weren't out to kill a forester.

You do what you want. I will maintain that we don't need to pack guns out here. That's another reason why I choose to live here.


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## northmanlogging (Jan 24, 2014)

I'm a thinking this may belong in the off topic or political forum.

I've stated my views and I'll leave it at that.


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## lmbrman (Jan 24, 2014)

jpj6780 said:


> No gub'ment official should have basic rights otherwise denied to citizens. I think anyone should be able to carry. Don't know why you'd walk in the woods without a sidearm of some variety, but if we can't, I don't think they should either.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


 I thought that if a person was allowed carry in the state they were in, they were allowed to carry in any national forest or park within that state? Is it possible workers have fewer rights than visitors? I am not sure on this, but curious now as we were planning a trip this summer. 

I think the original US legislation was to allow each state jurisdiction over the gun laws and prevent federal decision within separate states. Law might have changed five times since that happened a few years ago. I could be and have been wrong other times.

Here in WI there are very few places you cannot open carry as a resident, or carry concealed if you pass a basic background check, have basic gun safety knowledge and pay $40 for the 5 year permit. A common practice here is a single sign that says no weapons on a business, building or 'area'. This is often done to satisfy those who are scared of guns. The signs do not legally prevent guns in the area or building if you have to look for the signage here in WI.


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## madhatte (Jan 24, 2014)

I carried a pistol briefly in the 90's in Oregon, but gave up the idea after just a few days when I realized that I was carrying an extra pound around for no good reason.


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## Flat47 (Jan 24, 2014)

I started this thread because I thought it was important to the industry, not to debate gun control. If these folks aren't able to protect landowners and contractors from thieves and vandals - who will? If they're armed it sounds like status-quo. If not, sounds like we won't have rangers anymore. Lots more if you search them on the web.

I hope I didn't alienate any of my new-found friends here on AS. 

Admins - feel free to move, lock, or do what you want with this thread.


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## Double_Diamond (Jan 24, 2014)

I am not sure if anyone actually read the article. I quote _"The bill, supported by the state’s forest rangers, seeks to arm and train those rangers, who are already considered law enforcement officers_." The bill is to arm *law enforcement officers*, not foresters, maintenance workers or private citizens. I am a bit surprised that they are not already armed. The state forest rangers in California are armed. From what I understand a good portion of their time is spent doing law enforcement activities. If you are going to ask someone to do a job then you should give them the proper tools to do the job.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 24, 2014)

there is a big difference between a forester like I work with and a forest ranger.......I am assuming this, I don't think we have rangers here.


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## Big_Al (Jan 24, 2014)

The park rangers don't carry here but there are agencies that patrol the national forest that are. Dept of agriculture/forest service has law enforcement officers that are well armed. See them more often than rangers. Also another dept that is armed that patrols the wildlife refuge areas. The game wardens are all armed. Been checked by all of them & never had an issue. If I had their jobs I would want to armed.


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## northmanlogging (Jan 24, 2014)

Flat47 said:


> I started this thread because I thought it was important to the industry, not to debate gun control. If these folks aren't able to protect landowners and contractors from thieves and vandals - who will? If they're armed it sounds like status-quo. If not, sounds like we won't have rangers anymore. Lots more if you search them on the web.
> 
> I hope I didn't alienate any of my new-found friends here on AS.
> 
> Admins - feel free to move, lock, or do what you want with this thread.



Meh nobody listens to me so don't worry. Problem is anytime you bring up fire arms in friendly conversation it becomes political in a short time, whatever your own veiws may be. Law enforcement should already have side arms, if they don't, then chances are they probably don't need them, as far as park rangers carrying weapons, its just one more reason for me not to enjoy this country's national parks, damn shame really some of them are quite nice.

And law enforcement in my experience does nothing to protect anybody from thieves or vandals, they just make a vague attempt to capture the perp (read "we'll file a report but there really isn't much we can do we're underfunded you know" Anymore the only reason to call the police is to report a crime so your insurance can cover the cleanup or so they can call the coroner to clean up the mess.


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## Big_Al (Jan 25, 2014)

Not sure why you couldn't enjoy national parks/forests if rangers were armed? Wouldn't make a bit of difference to me.


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## northmanlogging (Jan 25, 2014)

cause you stick a gun and a badge on someone they suddenly get the urge to feel authority, and then go out looking for trouble where there isn't any. And since I have enough problems with law enforcement trying to arrest me for stuff I don't do, I don't need that while I'm trying to go camping.


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## slowp (Jan 25, 2014)

I didn't read the whole article because I refuse to "answer a few questions" in order to do so. But we foresters also run into music wood thefts, firewood theft, timber theft and can write tickets if we keep the training up. 

Firewood cutters are the worst. Bunch of whining anarchists!


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## northmanlogging (Jan 25, 2014)

When I was a kid we used to go cut firewood all the time on DNR and FS land, never had a problem only cut what was down and in a marked firewood area, occasionally the DNR dude would show up and check our permits but it was never a big deal.

The last time I got a DNR wood permit its was like the ****ing circus was let loose... wild eyed yokels everywhere, and if it wasn't already on the ground they didn't have any problems with falling 4-5 for themselves, needless to say I didn't actually get any wood, there was nowhere to park where I felt even remotely safe, and they shut the whole thing down the next day.


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## AKDoug (Jan 25, 2014)

I guess grow operations and meth labs aren't part of SlowP and northman's forestry world. I wouldn't take a Forest Ranger job in many parts of this country without being allowed to be armed.


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## Big_Al (Jan 25, 2014)

Don't forest rangers already have badges? I think they can write tickets even tho they aren't armed. Maybe they have different categories of rangers. Been my experience that if you're mostly legal, not obnoxious or a smart azx they aren't going to bother you. I say mostly legal cause I was missing a bucket once & a little off on cutting distance to a creek. The le didn't get too excited.


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## slowp (Jan 25, 2014)

AKDoug said:


> I guess grow operations and meth labs aren't part of SlowP and northman's forestry world. I wouldn't take a Forest Ranger job in many parts of this country without being allowed to be armed.


 
Grow operations are mainly indoors now. Plus, it is semi-legal here. The rules just haven't been worked out yet. According to our guy who does carry a gun, and this might be outdated, but since it is now required to show ID and a record is kept of who buys allergy and etc. pills with ephedrin, meth labs in our county have virtually disappeared. It is easier to import the finished product here from Mexico. 

Those are non-issues that are kept alive by TV shows in this part of the woods. Now there are the anarchist woodcutters who don't want to follow the rules that the majority of folks follow. If caught, they contribute their firewood to be auctioned off for the good of the treasury. Haven't ever heard of any gunfire during that. One local bad guy, who always has a warrant out on him, did a TV stunt of weaving back and forth so firewood chunks would fall out and deter the LEO during a low speed chase. 

Most busted firewood thieves are on the sheepish and embarrassed side. 

The guy who got in my face and predicted the end of my job after the 2008 election, was mad because I would not mark a blowdown for him to cut in an area that was off limits. Guess he thought he was special?


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## northmanlogging (Jan 25, 2014)

miss P is correct, grow opps are indoors or in backyards now, and the meth labs have pretty much dried up, or well burnt up. We still get plenty of tweekers, but they tend to stay in populated areas. And as far as being messed with by the police (read harassed) grow your hair out and get lots of tattoos and ride around in a beat up ole pick up, or buzz around on a loud as Hel copper, then come tell me police don't mess with people doing nothing wrong, Or better yet work night shift while living in a small town. 

I've had more guns pulled on me by police then civilians, and lots of civilians have pulled guns on me (tweekers). I've never been arrested, but I have had the pleasure of fighting ******** tickets in the court system, and I guarantee the police report never matches what really happend. And the last time I had to draw my pistol was on... a ****ing cop. The only reason I didn't shoot the bastard is because he was a cop, and the only reason I learned that is I noticed the badge on his shoulder as he was throwing me against my house, no lights, no sirens, just you your under arrest for reckless driving. I didn't find out his name until I talked to the public defender. Oh yeah he got fired a short time after this.

Keep in mind folks this little town I live in has gone through 3 police chiefs and countless officers in the last 3 years: 1 indicted on fraud charges (ripping off a retirement home) 2 entangled in a drug ring (through a church no less) the third wouldn't play ball with the latest crooked mayor, so as of March 1st we get to have the sheriffs take over, at least they are accountable for their actions.

I'm sorry for the rant. Peeps that respect police confuse me, or they have never seen the bad side of law enforcement, Granted I've met and am friends with very many officers that are usually pretty good folks, but there are an awful lot that a shinny brass badge and a uniform makes them think they can do no wrong.


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## Flat47 (Jan 25, 2014)

Ok, a little more on this: 
- here in Maine, Forest Rangers are State Law Enforcement, they're not feds and not parks
- they have full powers of arrest and state-wide jurisdiction
- they are the ones who do the law enforcement for all kinds of wood theft, fuel theft, equipment and gate vandalism, christmas tree and bough theft, arson and on and on
- they write tickets for criminal and civil violations
- they aren't foresters; Maine has those, too and they aren't LEOs
- yes, they fight/manage wildland fires, too

*This is the heart of the issue:*
I think this is important to Maine's entire timber industry because Forest Rangers keep the skidders and harvesters from being messed with. They get victimized landowners the money they deserve for their timber.
The issue of arming them leads to the issue: who will protect Maine's biggest industry if Forest Rangers don't? State legislators have realized that they have a work force in harms way and now have a duty to act to protect the employees. The options are to train and equip them like every other LEO in the state, or remove them from their workplace.

I didn't realize readers had to answer some questions just to read the article. Google them. I did. There's lots of stuff on them including a Facebook page with some great pictures and good insight into their jobs. Cool air ops stuff, too.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 25, 2014)

sounds like things are handled differently there than else where.
flat, tell us some about yourself.......what do ya do?


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## AKDoug (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm sorry. I forgot that the forests of Oregon and NCal represented all of the U.S. My bad.


Sent from my iPhone on tapatalk


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## k5alive (Jan 26, 2014)

My little .38 derringer stays ready in the woods, However in the last 5 years i've only needed it once.
The question is, Does the need outweigh the want?


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## SliverPicker (Jan 26, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> cause you stick a gun and a badge on someone they suddenly get the urge to feel authority, and then go out looking for trouble where there isn't any. And since I have enough problems with law enforcement trying to arrest me for stuff I don't do, I don't need that while I'm trying to go camping.


I refuse to step foot in a Colorado State Park for this exact reason. CSP rangers are downright scary. The culture of the SPs creates/attracts a certain type of person. No thanks.


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## sarge3604 (Jan 26, 2014)

i live in maine and theres no reason for a forest ranger to have a gun if they run into a problem they can just call a warden most of maine is just woods that there will be an occational hunter on which they don't even deal with i honestly don't think ive seen a forest ranger more than a handful of times.


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## OlympicYJ (Jan 26, 2014)

So, for a private industry perspective. It varies by company whether you can carry a handgun or even a rifle. Some will let you have a rifle but no handgun. Some will let you carry a handgun. Last company I worked for let me carry both. I didn't cause I was working with another guy all the time. I know a couple guys that carry a handgun at work. Neither was allowed to and one actually was the head of security. There are guys out there that do and do feel a need to. The rifle is for your hunting pleasure by the way.

Patty, Northman; we still find grows out here every now and then. They have actually developed plants to grow in shaded areas like RMZs; mostly cartel activity. 

WA DNR actually has law enforcement officers that carry guns. Same with the Forest Service and the Park Service. I don't have a problem with us foresters carrying. I don't think we have to be armed tho. There may be days I choose to and days I don't. A day I would carry would be if I were working next to a place that looked like it had a bunch of tweakers. But for the weight issue every ounce counts so wouldn't carry so much. I will say I've carried before while dong inventory. Luckily I didn't have to carry everything under the sun so it didn't bother me. Was a couple seconds slow on shooting a yote with it too lol


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## jimmycrackcorn (Jan 26, 2014)

I don't know how it is elsewhere but everytime I've run into a official in the woods they have had a firearm. I know someone mentioned "most wildlife runs off" but I do know I wouldn't be able to outrun a aggravated bear, mountain lion, moose, or whatever if the situation arose. In Maine, chances are you'll run into one eventually, especially if your in the woods everyday. I would think it would be mandatory.

Maine FR's have full authority? If that's true, I believe if you have authority to arrest, write summons, tickets, etc, like most PPL in uniform I've encountered in the woods have, you should have some sort of protection. We all know how some PPL react to authority. These rangers who have law enforcing authority shouldn't have to wait on a warden (who's probably hours away) when they are in a jam, no matter what the situation. 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## 2dogs (Jan 26, 2014)

Cal Fire rangers and State Parks rangers are all armed and for good reason around here. The big grows have not moved indoors and are run by the Mexican cartels. The grows are guarded and gunfire exchanges between guards and cops are not uncommon at all. Theses are not little grows for personal use but huge polluting industries where those working have family held hostage in Mexico. They produce or family members die. Weed is not always the way it is portrayed by the advocates. It is mean and nasty. Arm the Rangers.

The State Parks are Meccas for bikers. Nothing but trouble. Worse than gang bangers. Arm the rangers.


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## lmbrman (Jan 27, 2014)

I don't feel the need to carry in the woods on account of wildlife, although I think there is some risk. Few years back we had a sick fox that kept bothering us in a pine job, thing would sneak up and do a little attack on you, stalking all the time, tearing pants even with the saw running and sometimes swung at fox. Finally Arthur put a hookeroon thru his skull. We knew the fox was not normal. There are more concerning things out there certainly and encounters can and do go bad. I had a restraining order against some methheads for a while, one of them threatened me in open court. I was concerned they would find me alone in the woods. I carried then, especially after the DA said it would be wise "they will look for you" is what the DA and LE told me. Funny how light the plastic gun felt with those words in my head.

Found a 'grow' on a job once years back. Stupid me, I had no clue what all the plastic was, walked up to it and had shouting and guns pointed at me. Lucky for me it was LE. I had no problem convincing them I was ignorant. I walked into a sting I guess. It was the size of an average garden around here. I was disappointed there were no peppers.

If I were expected to deal with the general public, which includes a special segment of the population and be in any position of authority I would want equal rights with the public.


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## OlympicYJ (Jan 27, 2014)

Wildlife in general around here don't bother me but we have some really high cougar populations in my specific area. Lots of guys getting stalked and cats getting close. Had one 15 feet from me hunting one time. coming into a T intersection he was on the left hand part of the T. We both got there at the same time. Ran out in the road and thought I'd get a Texas heart shot on him but right as I let fly he bailed into the reprod. No blood. The old man went back the next day cuz I had classes in the morning and afternoon in town and cut his track and then heard him jump after he tossed a bottle he'd found. Two cougar were killed this year also due to depredation. One ran right past the neighbor after killing one of his goats the other killed another neighbors Llama. Dad put one of our game cams on the carcass, it was 40 to 50ft off the county road. It came in 15mins before he checked the camera and game dept came out and nailed it a couple hours later. Another neighbors dog had a big cat treed right by the house. All of this activity is within a 3mile stretch of valley. I'm not scared of cougars, just leery of running into one that sees me as the main course.


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## lmbrman (Jan 27, 2014)

Those cougar scare me a little, only seen one, but some of them showing up locally, prolly not as many here as out there. Seen their tracks on top of mine several times, never saw the critter. Reason they make me nervous is we have a couple of somewhat domestic cats around here, they are like 12lbs, and they enjoy jumping out of trees in the dark, landing on a person and biting and scratching, they think it is a game. When I think of the size of a cougar, it makes me think twice as the darn 12lb cat stalks me and pretends to kill me.

WI DNR put out a statement a while back something to the effect 'there is no reason to fear a cougar in the wild, however if you do see one never under any circumstances turn your back on it or run'. That amused me a little.

I am more scared of malls schools and movie theaters than the woods overall. My sister was in the movie theater in Aurora CO a day before the event out there.

be safe- dave


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## OlympicYJ (Jan 27, 2014)

Holy crap! Lucky. Anyways off that can of worms and back to the discussion. If cats (Cougar) have enough prey not much of a problem. But the population is high enough to create allot of competition and know of a few people that were attacked and did and didn't survive. Couple of boys hunting with their dad had separated. Boys went one direction dad went another. The older boy got a funny feeling and turned around and shot a cat that was closing in on them. Lots of depredation is by young cats that have been kicked out and the only unoccupied territory is near population. Plus without hound hunting the population has really increased. Years ago you didn't hear about people seeing cats, they tried to avoid humans as much as possible. And best advice is make yourself seem bigger than the cat if you ever have one stalking you. If you run it triggers their predatory instinct. Cat playing with a mouse anyone?


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## northmanlogging (Jan 27, 2014)

lived out here for 20 some odd years and I've never seen a cat. bear, elk, moose, deer, raccoons, possums, few goats, coyotes, wolfies, no cats... kinda wanna see a cat though.


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## northmanlogging (Jan 27, 2014)

lived out here for 20 some odd years and I've never seen a cat. bear, elk, moose, deer, raccoons, possums, few goats, coyotes, wolfies, no cats... kinda wanna see a cat though.


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## sarge3604 (Jan 27, 2014)

I live in maine where theres supposedly there arent any cougars or wolfes around although i have seen a wolf i was driving on 95 about 5 miles out of millinocket and saw a lone wolf in the middle of the road it was huge it was also at 12:00 at night and have heard enough reliable people say they have seen the big cats that i believe that they are here still the chances of seeing one is unlikely and if you do see one they usually will just go away same with the bears


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## sarge3604 (Jan 27, 2014)

I live in maine where theres supposedly there arent any cougars or wolfes around although i have seen a wolf i was driving on 95 about 5 miles out of millinocket and saw a lone wolf in the middle of the road it was huge it was also at 12:00 at night and have heard enough reliable people say they have seen the big cats that i believe that they are here still the chances of seeing one is unlikely and if you do see one they usually will just go away same with the bears


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## jimmycrackcorn (Jan 28, 2014)

lmbrman said:


> Few years back we had a sick fox that kept bothering us in a pine job, thing would sneak up and do a little attack on you.



That's too funny..




lmbrman said:


> Reason they make me nervous is we have a couple of somewhat domestic cats around here, they are like 12lbs, and they enjoy jumping out of trees in the dark, landing on a person and biting and scratching, they think it is a game.



Even funnier...

Do you walk around every day with twinkies, ho ho's & ding dongs in your pockets? These animals really seem to have an interest in you..LOL

Either that our your a magnet for odd occurances.. Aurora, Meth Labs, Restraining orders, animal attacks.. I'd seek shelter in an electrical storm if I were u.. Id also play the lottery..


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## lmbrman (Jan 28, 2014)

jimmycrackcorn said:


> That's too funny..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No twinkies or junk food, don't play the lottery. Have worked in the woods for almost 30 years thou, seen and learned a few things happen. A handful of animal experiences is not many. Meth heads hit all the garages in my neighborhood looking for stuff to grab. I suspect that happens often across the country. My woodstove is out there, I stumbled on them by accident. Loggers and contractors are a typical target around here for theft, lots of tools and equipment to grab.

S### happens. The rest of my life is pretty boring. Happy for that. My friends are way more odd than I.

If you are ever in WI I would be glad to share the police reports and restraining orders with you. Contact info for my relatives in Denver also. Nice people they are. Of course, thousands were in or near that theatre that week, not really a small town area there. Fox remains are no longer available I suspect.

-dave


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## jimmycrackcorn (Jan 28, 2014)

lmbrman said:


> If you are ever in WI I would be glad to share the police reports and restraining orders with you. Contact info for my relatives in Denver also. Nice people they are. Of course, thousands were in or near that theatre that week, not really a small town area there. Fox remains are no longer available I suspect.



I think you took that the wrong way..

I believe you my friend.. Thought the animal sneak attacks you spoke of were quite comical.. The thought of them brought to mind Scrappy Doo from Scoobie Doo from when I was a youngster. You know, the little dog who thought he was way bigger than he was, always going after the villian. 

So what happened with the meth heads, they ever come looking for you? 



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## slowp (Jan 28, 2014)

Rather than pack a gun, I'd rather have a Used Dog along. He's cheery, when I toppled over backwards, he came and stood on me to help me up I started laughing hard which made him harder and more wiggly to push off,and he helped pack gear. He also came out of the brush--he's never far away, and only had to sit by my feet and look dog like, which encouraged the former tweaker now self proclaimed evangelist to leave. I was able to get back to work at the same place.


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## jimmycrackcorn (Jan 28, 2014)

Is that a Trapper Keeper on the saw..? Do you remember those? They sure had some wild colors back in the 80's.. =)

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## lmbrman (Jan 28, 2014)

jimmycrackcorn said:


> I think you took that the wrong way..
> 
> I believe you my friend.. Thought the animal sneak attacks you spoke of were quite comical.. The thought of them brought to mind Scrappy Doo from Scoobie Doo from when I was a youngster. You know, the little dog who thought he was way bigger than he was, always going after the villian.
> 
> ...


 sorry, I have to be a little defense here in logging and forestry, being not from the west coast, my bar length and all

the guys got another charge since then- bail jumping, which I presume means they missed a court date or condition of the court? I really don't know-

-dave


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