# If you've read "The Golden Spruce"...



## madhatte (Apr 8, 2015)

There's a sort-of movie adaptation coming out this spring.

(Uggh, he's holding the clinometer upside-down and in the wrong hand)


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## Westboastfaller (Apr 9, 2015)

Strange and sad event, it was the only one know like that I believe. (Sitka spruce)
I remember It like yesterday.
In the Queen Charlotte Islands,and now goes by the Haida native name; Haida Gwaii
He dissappeared... not so strange. Id say that was a death sentence.

Haven't read the book, its well known history here


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## Whitespider (Apr 17, 2015)

I've read The Goose That Laid The Golden Egg.

*I'VE MOVED HERE*


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## Dog_River (Oct 10, 2015)

I have read the book. The guy was a rock star logger and flipped his lid and went the other direction believing logging has destroyed the wilderness. He cut the golden spruce down to make a statement. It sure did. The last he was scene was leaving Prince Rupert in a kayak headed for court on Haida Gwaii never to be seen again.

I have heard there had been sightings of the guy in Siberia but nothing has been confirmed as far as I know. He was an extreme swimmer and would swim in sub freezing weather in the winter time. He spent some time in Whitehorse in the winter so he could go for his daily winter swim in the Yukon River. He was quit a guy and I believe he lived in Liloett, BC. I worked with a bunch of guy's from Prince Rupert for a few years and the local belief is the natives got him for cutting down the secret tree. 

Its worth the read,

Dog_River


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## Haywire (Oct 14, 2015)

Interesting. Will have to order up a copy.


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## Gologit (Oct 15, 2015)

Haywire said:


> Interesting. Will have to order up a copy.



It's an interesting read. The author's anti-logging bias is pretty clear but if you can put up with that there's a lot of good information. Lots of unanswered questions too.


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## rbtree (Jul 3, 2016)

I have a copy of the new movie, Hadwin's Revenge, but haven't watched it yet, wanting to watch it with some of my tree working buds.. but we've all been busy. Looking forward to it! I'd say any anti-logging bias is good, as far as the abhorrent rate at which they are still logging old growth on Vancouver Island and in BC
. The Ancient Forest Alliance is doing what they can to stem the tide, and at least protect what can be saved. Google "Big Lonely Doug" for a video of some of my BC Arb friends climbing the tree


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## bitzer (Jul 3, 2016)

rbtree said:


> I have a copy of the new movie, Hadwin's Revenge, but haven't watched it yet, wanting to watch it with some of my tree working buds.. but we've all been busy. Looking forward to it! I'd say any anti-logging bias is good, as far as the abhorrent rate at which they are still logging old growth on Vancouver Island and in BC
> . The Ancient Forest Alliance is doing what they can to stem the tide, and at least protect what can be saved. Google "Big Lonely Doug" for a video of some of my BC Arb friends climbing the tree


You're in the wrong place with that hippy nonsense talk.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 3, 2016)

rbtree said:


> I have a copy of the new movie, Hadwin's Revenge, but haven't watched it yet, wanting to watch it with some of my tree working buds.. but we've all been busy. Looking forward to it! I'd say any anti-logging bias is good, as far as the abhorrent rate at which they are still logging old growth on Vancouver Island and in BC
> . The Ancient Forest Alliance is doing what they can to stem the tide, and at least protect what can be saved. Google "Big Lonely Doug" for a video of some of my BC Arb friends climbing the tree



can I come over to your house and remove all timber related items?


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## bigbarf48 (Jul 4, 2016)

rbtree said:


> I have a copy of the new movie, Hadwin's Revenge, but haven't watched it yet, wanting to watch it with some of my tree working buds.. but we've all been busy. Looking forward to it! I'd say any anti-logging bias is good, as far as the abhorrent rate at which they are still logging old growth on Vancouver Island and in BC
> . The Ancient Forest Alliance is doing what they can to stem the tide, and at least protect what can be saved. Google "Big Lonely Doug" for a video of some of my BC Arb friends climbing the tree



You sir, are a fool


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## madhatte (Jul 5, 2016)

"Abhorrent" is pretty strong language. So is "Old-Growth".


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2016)

I see this site is now populated with a lot of narrow minded types who don't seem to understand the value of old growth forests.

It IS abhorrent what is being done in BC, and has been done in the past by US logging practices, and may still be going on in the Tongass, I'm not sure.

Clear cutting clearly has its place, but the way it was done historically effectively destroyed the ecosystem. Given today's knowledge, forest managers should show more respect for the forest by clear cutting smaller swaths, and being sure to respect the watersheds...AND show more respect for the areas where the best old growth remains.... 

http://www.cathedralgrove.eu/text/01-Cathedral-Grove-3.htm

It's all about the money...


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2016)

bitzer said:


> You're in the wrong place with that hippy nonsense talk.


 And, as a damn near charter member here, I think I'll stick around



bigbarf48 said:


> You sir, are a fool



Thank you.......

..barf


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## madhatte (Jul 5, 2016)

I, uh, am a forester. Protecting the vertical and horizontal complexity of late-succesional forest stands is one of my top priorities. I also spend a lot of my energy accelerating the development of these desirable traits in forest stands through silvicultural applications. TL;DR -- I'm more concerned about "Old-Growth" than you are, because I do it for a living.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 5, 2016)

rbtree said:


> I see this site is now populated with a lot of narrow minded types who don't seem to understand the value of old growth forests.
> 
> It IS abhorrent what is being done in BC, and has been done in the past by US logging practices, and may still be going on in the Tongass, I'm not sure.
> 
> ...



Yer comment of "any anti-logging bias is good" is what ticks me off.

Sure the old growth truly wild areas should be preserved, and they are here in the states, its also why 9 out of 10 mills have closed here since the 90's. The little town I spent my teens and 20's in is just about a ghost town, because folks like you want to protect the native growth, well there isn't much native growth around there, but its mostly Forest Service ground and now thanks to a bunch of whining city ****s there isn't a whole lot of logging on Forest Service ground. What is done is just thinning in an attempt to control the fire danger... and its really not enough. So there aren't any timber jobs out of the ole home town, anyone logging near there is from farther north, much farther north, where there is more DNR land and more reliable logging.

So you know a big thanks is in order for a whole generation of loggers and loggers kids that have nothing to do or look forward to besides boeing or drugs.


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## bitzer (Jul 5, 2016)

Yep the anti Logging crap ticked me off to. Maybe I should go to your forum and talk about how trimming trees is unnatural and abhorrent. The trees have a right to grow that way. It's the way God intended. What about lichen, or tree frogs, or ants that make their homes in those urban trees? Birds, bugs whatever? Just silly hippy talk. Clearcuts grow back. Old growth or virgin timber are pretty questionable terms. Old growth to who? To us that only live 80 years? So what? We are just a speck in the existence of life. Should we mow down every big tree we come across? No. But how much preserved land is enough? Who decides where to stop? Save a little near the major highways so the hippies can smile and let the rest be cut and grow back where only the loggers tred. Who else is going to supply this planet with the wood we need?

Honestly its selfish of us to preserve old trees that are taking up space for future trees to be harvested by future generations. Around here mature trees get cut. Over mature trees become wild life trees until they fall over. Releasing younger generations of trees is what keeps the supply going.


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## madhatte (Jul 5, 2016)

We grow 'em pretty well out here in the PNW. Of course, if you want to talk about tragic deforestation, let's talk about clearing the east coast/midwest hardwood forests for farming 1700-1900. That was about triple the area cut on the west coast since 1900... and virtually none of it was ever reforested. What's forested there now is largely fallow lands reclaimed by nature. Naw, I think it's fair to say that we've learned a few things in the last 300 years, and we're doing pretty OK both by the market and by the land. Now, if we could only stop exporting raw materials and bring the mills and their jobs back home.


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## bigbarf48 (Jul 5, 2016)

rbtree said:


> I see this site is now populated with a lot of narrow minded types who don't seem to understand the value of old growth forests.
> 
> It IS abhorrent what is being done in BC, and has been done in the past by US logging practices, and may still be going on in the Tongass, I'm not sure.
> 
> ...



You seem quite sure of yourself on this subject. You should be aware then that more trees are regenerated yearly than are harvested? That we have more forest cover now than in a long time? Forests now are managed economically. That is, to provide return on shareholder investments while maintaining the ability to continue doing so for the foreseeable future. You anti-logging types who seem to foolishly believe that a cut tree is never replaced just cant grasp the fact that we have an un-fathomable amount of timber in this country alone, and that active management, silviculture, and harvest is good for our forests. 

Forests which are not intensively managed and harvested succumb to mortality, fire, etc. USFS lands are largely in terrible shape because of people like you who vehemently oppose logging and forestry without actually having a clue as to what it is you are opposing.


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## rbtree (Jul 6, 2016)

Ummm, where in hell did I say I'm anti-logging? Perhaps you should quit being so sensitive. What I don't like is what went on in the past and what is going on in Canada...clearcuts too large.... the best forest is not one with stands of even aged second growth, but a diverse one... and that can be maintained better if less logging is done...and, where possible and practical, more standing trees left.. maybe some even thinned or crown reduced to reduce windthrow chances while the new forest grows around them. I'm well aware of how fast a woods can regenerate, especially redwood and spruce, even Doug-fir, and know clearcuts, in general, are best for regeneration of a sun loving tree like fir.... 
As well, the ecosystem is very important, and is always going to be more diverse and healthy in a diverse forest.


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## Rio95 (Jul 6, 2016)

rbtree said:


> I'd say any anti-logging bias is good


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## northmanlogging (Jul 6, 2016)

rbtree said:


> I have a copy of the new movie, Hadwin's Revenge, but haven't watched it yet, wanting to watch it with some of my tree working buds.. but we've all been busy. Looking forward to it! I'd say any anti-logging bias is good, as far as the abhorrent rate at which they are still logging old growth on Vancouver Island and in BC
> . The Ancient Forest Alliance is doing what they can to stem the tide, and at least protect what can be saved. Google "Big Lonely Doug" for a video of some of my BC Arb friends climbing the tree



About halfway through the first paragraph



rbtree said:


> Ummm, where in hell did I say I'm anti-logging? Perhaps you should quit being so sensitive. What I don't like is what went on in the past and what is going on in Canada...clearcuts too large.... the best forest is not one with stands of even aged second growth, but a diverse one... and that can be maintained better if less logging is done...and, where possible and practical, more standing trees left.. maybe some even thinned or crown reduced to reduce windthrow chances while the new forest grows around them. I'm well aware of how fast a woods can regenerate, especially redwood and spruce, even Doug-fir, and know clearcuts, in general, are best for regeneration of a sun loving tree like fir....
> As well, the ecosystem is very important, and is always going to be more diverse and healthy in a diverse forest.



There is a lot wrong with this second quote, not the least of which crown reduction on a stand of timber is about the stupidest and pointless thing I can think of, these ain't japanese maples in someones back yard, and no one in their right mind is going to suggest hiring a bunch of overpaid tree climbers to trim the branches on a tree in the middle of nowhere. Simply not cost effective.

As far as clear cuts vs thinning, every forest needs is own treetment, sometimes its better to just start over, on a grand scale.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 6, 2016)

Also if you live in seattle, where did you get all this experience with redwoods and spruce, not a whole lot of either growing in big stands around here, and redwoods aren't even native. Douglas Fir in a forest environment grows fairly slowly, because its not in someones fertilized yard getting watered weekly. 

Seriously though, do a cost analysis on crown reducing 5 trees per acre on an 80 acre site, each one approaching 150' tall and no where near a road, 5 being the current norm to be left per acre. More if we go with your plan. 

Or we could just replant and call it good for 50-80 years.


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## slowp (Jul 6, 2016)

I urge preservation minded people to start at home. You might want to join my group, Friends of Seattle (actually the whole Pungent Sound Area). We advocate the restoration of the greater Seattle area. We recommend tearing up pavement, moving earth to restore the original hills, and requiring home owners to plant native trees and species which will help the reintroduction of grizzlies, black bear, cougar, gophers, owls, etc. We will assist in creek restoration--tearing out culverts, restoring the creek beds to their original meandering routes, reforestation, etc. 

Since the NW Forest Plan has worked so well in our National Forests, we shall implement the same program in Seattle. You will not use motorized equipment and vehicles from March 1 to July 1 as this is Northern Owl breeding and nesting season. If an active nest is located, that time will be extended to September 15. From July to Sept, you will be restricted from the same--no noise or operating of vehicles and equipment until one hour after sunrise and the shutting down of equipment and vehicles one hour before sunset. This is because the Seattle Area is in potential Marbled Murrelet habitat. You will not run vehicles and equipment from Dec. 1 to April 1 because the Seattle area is deer and elk winter habitat. You may drive around in the remaining months until we restore the roads and parking lots by subsoiling, restoring the natural contours and planting back the native species that will grow into an old growth forest. 

We shall get laws passed restricting the use of lawn fertilizers, outlaw sewage disposal--no pottying allowed, no herbicides, no pesticides, no drugs of any kind as those substances affect salmon in detrimental ways. The formula for locating houses near water will be 1.5 times the height of the tallest tree for that site condition. And so forth. 

Anybody want to join?


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## Gologit (Jul 6, 2016)

slowp said:


> I urge preservation minded people to start at home. You might want to join my group, Friends of Seattle (actually the whole Pungent Sound Area). We advocate the restoration of the greater Seattle area. We recommend tearing up pavement, moving earth to restore the original hills, and requiring home owners to plant native trees and species which will help the reintroduction of grizzlies, black bear, cougar, gophers, owls, etc. We will assist in creek restoration--tearing out culverts, restoring the creek beds to their original meandering routes, reforestation, etc.
> 
> Since the NW Forest Plan has worked so well in our National Forests, we shall implement the same program in Seattle. You will not use motorized equipment and vehicles from March 1 to July 1 as this is Northern Owl breeding and nesting season. If an active nest is located, that time will be extended to September 15. From July to Sept, you will be restricted from the same--no noise or operating of vehicles and equipment until one hour after sunrise and the shutting down of equipment and vehicles one hour before sunset. This is because the Seattle Area is in potential Marbled Murrelet habitat. You will not run vehicles and equipment from Dec. 1 to April 1 because the Seattle area is deer and elk winter habitat. You may drive around in the remaining months until we restore the roads and parking lots by subsoiling, restoring the natural contours and planting back the native species that will grow into an old growth forest.
> 
> ...



Bad idea. Bad, bad, bad. If this happens the Seatellites will just move away. Some of them will want to move back to California. We don't want them.
Some of them will want to move to other areas of your state...like Omak. That sounds better to me.


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## Scablands (Jul 6, 2016)

Gologit said:


> Bad idea. Bad, bad, bad. If this happens the Seatellites will just move away. Some of them will want to move back to California. We don't want them.
> Some of them will want to move to other areas of your state...like Omak. That sounds better to me.


Dear God, no! Keep them on the west side. We're particular about who we associate with around these parts.


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## madhatte (Jul 6, 2016)

slowp said:


> Since the NW Forest Plan has worked so well in our National Forest



Even though I know you're joking, the words alone make my hands quake in frustration and rage. Gonna have to drink some overpriced artisan-brewed beeramajig to calm my shaky nerves.


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## slowp (Jul 6, 2016)

Scablands said:


> Dear God, no! Keep them on the west side. We're particular about who we associate with around these parts.



I understand. I have been a "we" and may become such again. I am bisidual or bi slopal--can live on either side of the Cascades. In fact, the original Friends of Seattle organization was formed years ago in the Methow Valley. I think it needs to be resurrected. Or something. Not that it did the Methow any good. 

Madhatte: Beer? It just so happens that there will be a beer garden at this weekend's Winlock Pickerfest, held in Minoqua or something like that park near Winlock. I hope ****'s Brewery is featured, but I do not know. Consider this a shameless plug for said festival. The organizer has put out a plea for canopies.


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## madhatte (Jul 6, 2016)

Hrmm. Perhaps I'll go visit the giant egg, then.


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## slowp (Jul 6, 2016)

If the giant egg was in front of the community hall, it was not there for their Egg Fest. I fear that it is off being renovated, kind of like the giant Yardbird.
My group played there during Egg Fest.


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## slowp (Jul 6, 2016)

Nevermind. I think I was on the wrong side of the tracks. 
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/4033


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## madhatte (Jul 6, 2016)

Winlock without the Egg would be like Disneyland without the overpricing!


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## northmanlogging (Jul 6, 2016)

madhatte said:


> Winlock without the Egg would be like Disneyland without the overpricing!



You mean even more crowded and more sketchy? Full of even dumber people from farther away?


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## northmanlogging (Jul 6, 2016)

Dinnee land not winlock... Winlock is nice... with or without the egg.


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## madhatte (Jul 6, 2016)

P'raps I mangled my malapropism; does "overrated" work better?


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## northmanlogging (Jul 6, 2016)

Dinnee lann is all fine and good if yer like say under 12... but the rides are a little on the tame side, and there are way to many people there... Hel there's too many people in Winlock fer me anymore.

So yeah overrated works.


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## Scablands (Jul 7, 2016)

slowp said:


> I understand. I have been a "we" and may become such again. I am bisidual or bi slopal--can live on either side of the Cascades.



I lived on the west side for about eight years. I'm fine with most of the folks from the small towns on the west side. As far as Seattle and its 'burbs, every time I'm there and around those people, I just can't get away fast enough. 

And I am all for your old growth restoration plan. That needs to end up as an initiative.


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## slowp (Jul 7, 2016)

I shall look for the egg on my way in. Perhaps it was painted camouflage when last I was there. But I thought I heard a rumor that it was being refurbished.

Yardbirds has some nice hoodies for sale in the grocery store. I almost bought one. They have the 12th bird on them.


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## madhatte (Jul 7, 2016)

If you see the bossman Jason, remind him that he's doing heroic work bringing the mighty Yard Birds back from the ashes. He's a fan of the mythology as much as or more than anybody. Also, my old friend Rob did the documentary. I got my copy of the DVD in exchange for assessing the hazard of some trees on his property in Rochester!


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## Deleted member 110241 (Jul 23, 2016)

rbtree said:


> Ummm, where in hell did I say I'm anti-logging? Perhaps you should quit being so sensitive. What I don't like is what went on in the past and what is going on in Canada...clearcuts too large.... the best forest is not one with stands of even aged second growth, but a diverse one... and that can be maintained better if less logging is done...and, where possible and practical, more standing trees left.. maybe some even thinned or crown reduced to reduce windthrow chances while the new forest grows around them. I'm well aware of how fast a woods can regenerate, especially redwood and spruce, even Doug-fir, and know clearcuts, in general, are best for regeneration of a sun loving tree like fir....
> As well, the ecosystem is very important, and is always going to be more diverse and healthy in a diverse forest.



It's better to start thinking about preserving the old forests while they still exist. Here in Sweden we have cut pretty much everything in the 19th century and have very few, forests that are more than 200 years old now. Most of the older trees are just over 100 years, that's nothing for a fir...
Nowadays we leave old trees and groups of trees on the clear cuts, some of them survive and will be "old growth" one day, others die and becomes important for birds and various bugs. 
I fail to understand how some loggers don't give a **** about anything other than cutting down trees, there's more to logging than that.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 23, 2016)

Markus said:


> It's better to start thinking about preserving the old forests while they still exist. Here in Sweden we have cut pretty much everything in the 19th century and have very few, forests that are more than 200 years old now. Most of the older trees are just over 100 years, that's nothing for a fir...
> Nowadays we leave old trees and groups of trees on the clear cuts, some of them survive and will be "old growth" one day, others die and becomes important for birds and various bugs.
> I fail to understand how some loggers don't give a **** about anything other than cutting down trees, there's more to logging than that.




the difference is that in most of europe, there isn't any true old growth, i.e. virgin forest, its all been cut some time in the last 200 years. Whilst out here there is millions, no bull ****, millions of acres of uncut virgin forest.

Meanwhile the bunny huggers and duck squeezers keep going for more and more "conservation" personally I feel there is a happy medium now, but the granola munchers will never be satisfied as long as the lawyers can get rich of suing the gubernment.


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## slowp (Jul 23, 2016)

But what is the definition of virgin forest? We've had lots of stand replacing fires throughout history and volcanic eruptions. There are stories of fires getting out of hand that were set by the Indians, who managed the forests with fire. 

For old growth, is it size or age? Lots of folks don't know that all big trees are not necessarily old trees, or vice versa.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 24, 2016)

I always figured that "virgin" forest is one that hasn't been logged commercially, or replanted commercially. Fire is natural really, and the natives mostly used nature to their benefit, though on the east coast there is evidence of large scale farming and even some iron production.


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## Deleted member 110241 (Jul 24, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> I always figured that "virgin" forest is one that hasn't been logged commercially, or replanted commercially. Fire is natural really, and the natives mostly used nature to their benefit, though on the east coast there is evidence of large scale farming and even some iron production.



Fire is what the fir hopes for when the undergrowth of spruce is getting too tall and starts to take over  

I didn't know there was such vast areas of old forests over there, seems like I need to add a trip over the pond on my bucket list!


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## northmanlogging (Jul 24, 2016)

problem is that most of the old growth is dificult to get to, greenues shut us down before we could build the roads that deep...

but there still is plenty a person can drive right up to and go for a stroll if you where so inclined.

if yer ok with long hikes in remote areas with no chance of rescue... there is even more to see...

most of the "virgin" forests here in the states are either designated wilderness or nstional parks

having said all that... theres still a bunch in my area that is merely across a river from a major scenic highway... not that most of the morons driving by it to hike the mountains can tell the difference


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 24, 2016)

Markus said:


> I fail to understand how some loggers don't give a **** about anything other than cutting down trees, there's more to logging than that.


A Logger dosen't bid on a timber sale and then take the government to court to change the gov logging practices
We don't manage the forests, we work in them.
WTF?

That's a public misconception of loggers my friend. I have met people from Europe that were under the impression that there isn't a tree left on Van Isl. Well as I so often drive the 6 hour length I can contest that. There is at least 7 trees. We don't have a choice to leave big tree's that will not make the grade for merchable timber yet still hold a good ecosystem and they are safe from activities posing no hazards.
On a gov timber sale every little sapling is cut right to the ribbon line. 

http://www.againsttheleandocfilm.com/filmsummary.html


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## madhatte (Jul 24, 2016)

slowp said:


> But what is the definition of virgin forest? We've had lots of stand replacing fires throughout history and volcanic eruptions. There are stories of fires getting out of hand that were set by the Indians, who managed the forests with fire.
> 
> For old growth, is it size or age? Lots of folks don't know that all big trees are not necessarily old trees, or vice versa.



Quite right. I once drilled a 14" Hemlock that was 225 years old and only 50 ft tall, and I know of a stand of alders that top out at 150 ft and 20 years. Yes, I know that's off the scale for site index, and yes, I've already contacted the author of the curves, and no, we don't know why they're so tall. A mile from those alders I measured a Douglas-fir that was 84" DBH, 185 ft tall... and 75 years old. 



northmanlogging said:


> I always figured that "virgin" forest is one that hasn't been logged commercially, or replanted commercially. Fire is natural really, and the natives mostly used nature to their benefit, though on the east coast there is evidence of large scale farming and even some iron production.



Here, of course, fire was used to keep the prairies clear for blue camas, a staple food crop. Family plots were maintained for generations. The forest margin was where the hazels and berries were found, as well as medicinal plants like princes-pine. These fire-dependent ecologies collapsed quickly with the cessation of fire, but they are quite resilient -- the spring after reintroducing fire, the camas is always back. By seed or by dormant bulb I don't know but it's always ready for that opportunity.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 25, 2016)

Boulder falls trial, near Darrington WA

about 1 mile or so after the parking lot, you enter wilderness Boulder Basin Wilderness, several thousand acres of mostly unmolested forest, and its a small chunk. 

The trees there don't look like much, they are big by most standards like 30-40" dbh but not huge, but the growth rings are smaller then 1/16" (2mm) more on the lines of 1/32 (1mm). Its just rocky ground on a north slope in the lea of the rain, so not much sun, no minerals and not as much rain as surounding areas (cause you know 120" a year is totally a desert and stuff or 3.05 meters of water dumped everywhere yearly) the boulder basin probably gets like 1/4 of that rain compared to the rest of the valley.


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## rbtree (Sep 23, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> problem is that most of the old growth is dificult to get to, greenues shut us down before we could build the roads that deep...
> 
> but there still is plenty a person can drive right up to and go for a stroll if you where so inclined.
> 
> ...



On southern Vancouver Is, less than 6% of the high productivity lowland forest old growth remains..... https://www.ancientforestalliance.org/old-growth-maps.php


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## rbtree (Sep 23, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> Boulder falls trial, near Darrington WA
> 
> about 1 mile or so after the parking lot, you enter wilderness Boulder Basin Wilderness, several thousand acres of mostly unmolested forest, and its a small chunk.
> 
> The trees there don't look like much, they are big by most standards like 30-40" dbh but not huge, but the growth rings are smaller then 1/16" (2mm) more on the lines of 1/32 (1mm). Its just rocky ground on a north slope in the lea of the rain, so not much sun, no minerals and not as much rain as surounding areas (cause you know 120" a year is totally a desert and stuff or 3.05 meters of water dumped everywhere yearly) the boulder basin probably gets like 1/4 of that rain compared to the rest of the valley.



Thanks for the beta. Wll be sure to visit sometime.... love seeing old but slow growing trees...


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