# Falling Tall Ash Trees Uphill



## secureland (Jun 30, 2010)

Hello,

I have been clearing a steep slope. I have 3 tall 18" dbh ash trees left to cut. I can't cut with the natural lean because the house is in the way. I need them to go uphill, opposite of their natural lean.
Is there a good way to do this? Should I try a come-along setup? 

Thanks for any replies, 
Bill


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## bitzer (Jul 1, 2010)

How close is the house? How much room do you have? Side hill may be easier if you've got the room.


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## Tree Pig (Jul 1, 2010)

where in the NE are you?


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## forestryworks (Jul 1, 2010)

Be careful falling up hill. Inspect your lay for any swales, humps, rocks, etc. that may cause the tree to bounce and roll. Also watch for it scooting back down hill. It can do it in a hurry! And don't cut too low of a stump either.


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## 2dogs (Jul 3, 2010)

Today we dropped a 190' fir uphill to avoid a river we can't touch. The bull line was set about 150' up and was tensioned by a back hoe. The tree was leaning toward the river. I also set two wedges all the way in. We were sucessful but it could not have been done without the serious pull from the backhoe.


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## floyd (Jul 3, 2010)

Sometimes if you don't hold them they go back downhill...in a hurry.

I second herring boning it. Can you catch a few stumps somewhere to slow it down as it settles onto the ground?


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## bitzer (Jul 3, 2010)

2dogs said:


> Today we dropped a 190' fir uphill to avoid a river we can't touch. The bull line was set about 150' up and was tensioned by a back hoe. The tree was leaning toward the river. I also set two wedges all the way in. We were sucessful but it could not have been done without the serious pull from the backhoe.



I've never had to deal with anything that tall, but I know what you mean by serious tension. Fighting the lean and going uphill can be a real mother and with added tension there is a high added amount of danger, especially if the wood is questionable. I know you know what you are doing 2dogs and its good to let the OP know what he may be in for.

I'm guessing his Ash trees are between 60 to 75' tall and depending on the canopy, could be sticks or could be umbrellas. There could be a lot of weight up top or not much. Hard to say without pics.


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## catbuster (Jul 3, 2010)

You have a tractor, truck, hi-lift, excavator or other piece of equipment? I'd tie a line to it, put a big face in the front, cut the back, leave 3-4" of holding wood and yank it over. But be damn sure it wont go downhill, because if it does, and you have a small hoe, tractor, truck or samll dozer you'll go with it.


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## Metals406 (Jul 3, 2010)

secureland said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have been clearing a steep slope. I have 3 tall 18" dbh ash trees left to cut. I can't cut with the natural lean because the house is in the way. I need them to go uphill, opposite of their natural lean.
> Is there a good way to do this? Should I try a come-along setup?
> ...



Howdy Bill,

You might have asked _"How do I operate on this here brain without killing this guy?"_

Asking this type of tree advice online, quite frankly, will put you in a pickle faster than a fat chick can down a Twinkie. We can give you sound advice (kinda), but correctly implementing said advice -- is a whole different ball of wax.

We don't see the trees themselves, the grade, the soundness of the trees, the wind, the lean, etc. . . There are a whole lot of variables that can only truly be tackled on-site.

Depending on your tree felling experience, and your knowledge base is the only factor which will determine the safety and completion of the task. We can't/shouldn't blindly give advice and hope for the best.

I can tell you this. . . If you had to ask -- you aren't ready to do it by yourself. Find a member here that lives within a couple hours of you, and see if some beer and BBQ is enough to lure them over.

There is no substitute for experience. . . Hopefully it's a good experience.

<object width="853" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qpJTJ5OA4HU&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qpJTJ5OA4HU&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="853" height="505"></embed></object>


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## forestryworks (Jul 3, 2010)

catbuster said:


> leave 3-4" of holding wood



On an 18" DBH tree that is way too much holding wood.


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## Gologit (Jul 3, 2010)

Metals406 said:


> Howdy Bill,
> 
> You might have asked _"How do I operate on this here brain without killing this guy?"_
> 
> ...



Your post is the best advice yet. I very seldom reply to "how do I fall this tree" threads, even the ones with pictures, for the very reasons you mentioned. If I'm not there I can't really get a good idea of all the variables and I can't assess the situation, which can change rapidly. If you're not experienced enough to be aware of all the hazards involved you have two strikes against you to start with.

Most of all, I can't be there to make sure the guy damn well does exactly as I tell him.

Most of the time the OP is looking for a group validation for something he's already decided to do anyway. And most of the time they get away with it...kinda like the guy in the video you posted. He just lost _part_ of his house.


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## redprospector (Jul 3, 2010)

Yep, Metals made the best post in this thread. 

Andy


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## 2dogs (Jul 3, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> I've never had to deal with anything that tall, but I know what you mean by serious tension. Fighting the lean and going uphill can be a real mother and with added tension there is a high added amount of danger, especially if the wood is questionable. I know you know what you are doing 2dogs and its good to let the OP know what he may be in for.
> 
> I'm guessing his Ash trees are between 60 to 75' tall and depending on the canopy, could be sticks or could be umbrellas. There could be a lot of weight up top or not much. Hard to say without pics.



I will also say I was driving the wedges and watching the tip of the bar for the faller on this one. Even though we cussed and dicussed the rigging set up we still both ran like hell for cover when the tree committed to the fall.

BTW I have some pics of this tree but my desktop computer is down and I can't figure out how to send them to my daughter's laptop. The pics show a goose pen 10' diameter redwood that needs to come down this winter.


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## catbuster (Jul 4, 2010)

forestryworks said:


> On an 18" DBH tree that is way too much holding wood.



Not if you are going to yank it over. You want to be sure that it doesn't go over before you want it too. And walking the distance to hwere the machine that's gonna pull it can take a while, and if you have anything with any power, pulling over 3-4" of holing wood shouldn't be a problem.


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## 2dogs (Jul 4, 2010)

catbuster said:


> Not if you are going to yank it over. You want to be sure that it doesn't go over before you want it too. And walking the distance to hwere the machine that's gonna pull it can take a while, and if you have anything with any power, pulling over 3-4" of holing wood shouldn't be a problem.



I don't leave the hinge any beefier on a treee I am going to pull over vs just straight falling it. If the hinge is too thick, like 4", it will cause the tree to not fall but can break the hinge. If that happens you can lose directional control ove the tree. Bad news for the house.

How tall is a tall ash tree? Is the line going to be set high in the tree? What will you use for your bull line and what is going to pull on it? How will you determine how much tension to apply?


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## forestryworks (Jul 4, 2010)

catbuster said:


> Not if you are going to yank it over. You want to be sure that it doesn't go over before you want it too.* And walking the distance to hwere the machine that's gonna pull it can take a while*, and if you have anything with any power, pulling over 3-4" of holing wood shouldn't be a problem.



If you're in a pull tree situation that should never be a one man job. Foolish.


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## secureland (Jul 4, 2010)

Hey,

I admit, that was a dumb question! The trouble with this tree is that the only piece of equipment we could get above it is a bulldozer because of the steep pitch. And I'm not sure if we'll have one on the driveway job. I have cut the rest of the area, but this is a 70' tall 16-18" ash with no branches for the first 45-50' (it's a pole). It's leaning toward the house. If we don't get a dozer on the job, I'll be calling someone else to do the work or to walk me through it on site.

Thanks for the reality check, :agree2:
Bill


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## 2dogs (Jul 5, 2010)

forestryworks said:


> If you're in a pull tree situation that should never be a one man job. Foolish.



Yep! Tension on the bull rope has to be constant. An even greater concern is walking away from a faced and backcut tree of any type! Traffic control is vital too. 

A dozer can't move fast enough to maintain tension so you will have to put a good strong pull to begin with, that is as the tree is backcut.


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## catbuster (Jul 5, 2010)

forestryworks said:


> If you're in a pull tree situation that should never be a one man job. Foolish.



Yes, it is. But I've done it a lot. The proper way is one person on the saw, and one person on the Cat. You're in radio cantact the entire time, and working together.

Frankly, my luck could run out one day, but at this point, I'm alive, and I'm to the point where I feel I can do it safely.

Beats the crap out of pushing the tree over with the hi-lift.


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## secureland (Jul 7, 2010)

*Thanks for Stering Me Clear*

The tree was cut today, and I thought I'd share videos. The ground was quite steep. 

Upper Leader Removed (co-dominant leaders in tree)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cESi9lRfIg

Descent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8kYOco-K4


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## Metals406 (Jul 7, 2010)

secureland said:


> The tree was cut today, and I thought I'd share videos. The ground was quite steep.
> 
> Upper Leader Removed (co-dominant leaders in tree)
> 
> ...



Looks like a good route to me! Glad everything went smoothly and safely.


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## redsquirel (Jul 7, 2010)

*without a skidder*

A good electric winch chained to a tree with the bull line as high as you can get has served me well in the past. Just another idea for you, good luck.


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## MCW (Jul 8, 2010)

Another tip when pulling/winching trees over is to cut your backcut LOWER than the face (basically a reverse Humbolt). Stops the trunk potentially pulling off the stump. I had this happen once when trying to tow over a big heavy leaner then read this trick in an Australian New South Wales Forestry Manual - I'm surprised how many people have never heard of it and don't do it.


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