# Smoking Chainsaw



## orlimar105 (Jun 18, 2007)

Bought a new Stihl 290 the other day. Followed instructions to prep the machine (though the dealer pretty much had it ready to go off the bat) and started it up okay. However, when cutting some small logs I noticed a lot of white smoke and the wood turning black from heat. Is it a problem with lubricant flow? Is this a common problem and what is the solution? Thanks.


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## BostonBull (Jun 18, 2007)

orlimar105 said:


> Bought a new Stihl 290 the other day. Followed instructions to prep the machine (though the dealer pretty much had it ready to go off the bat) and started it up okay. However, when cutting some small logs I noticed a lot of white smoke and the wood turning black from heat. Is it a problem with lubricant flow? Is this a common problem and what is the solution? Thanks.



Sounds like your chain is VERY dull!!!

Post some pictures. It could be an oiler problem but right out of the box it is VERY doubtful..........unless you never put oil in the oil tank??.......


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## GASoline71 (Jun 18, 2007)

Is the chain on backwards?

Gary


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## orlimar105 (Jun 18, 2007)

For a while the saw was working well, cutting through the wood smoothly. Then I topped up the gas (checking the lubricant as well) and it was after that when the problems started. I did use the Stihl gas additive. Chain does feel dull, but how can that be with less than 20 mins of real-time use?


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## PA Plumber (Jun 18, 2007)

GASoline71 said:


> Is the chain on backwards?
> 
> Gary



+ 1

It's the new homeowner safety chain. Just chain, safety straps, and depth gauges.  Once you cut two or three trees up with that, the dealer will give you one with teeth.:chainsawguy:


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## PA Plumber (Jun 18, 2007)

orlimar105 said:


> For a while the saw was working well, cutting through the wood smoothly. Then I topped up the gas (checking the lubricant as well) and it was after that when the problems started. I did use the Stihl gas additive. Chain does feel dull, but how can that be with less than 20 mins of real-time use?




What are you cutting? Was the tree in a creek/flood plain or live standing?


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## orlimar105 (Jun 18, 2007)

Are you serious? He did not mention anything about that... Is that standard with selling a Stihl to an obvious novice?


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## orlimar105 (Jun 18, 2007)

Chainsaw had 18" bar. I was cutting a trunk that had already fallen about 6 months ago. Only 8" in diameter at most.


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## PA Plumber (Jun 18, 2007)

orlimar105 said:


> Are you serious? He did not mention anything about that... Is that standard with selling a Stihl to an obvious novice?



I'm sorry. That post was in fun about the "new homeowner safety chain."


By the way, welcome to the site.


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## PA Plumber (Jun 18, 2007)

orlimar105 said:


> Chainsaw had 18" bar. I was cutting a trunk that had already fallen about 6 months ago. Only 8" in diameter at most.



Is it possible you have gotten the tip of the bar into the dirt a few times?? An 18" bar on an 8" tree is a lot of bar sticking out the other side. Also, When you are at the bottom of the cut are you rolling the log over or just cutting on through until the chain catches a little dirt?


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## orlimar105 (Jun 18, 2007)

Don't think dirt contamination is an issue. Chain feels like its sliding on top of the wood, rather than actually cutting it. Could it be chain tension?


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## PA Plumber (Jun 18, 2007)

orlimar105 said:


> Don't think dirt contamination is an issue. Chain feels like its sliding on top of the wood, rather than actually cutting it. Could it be chain tension?



Is this log in a flood plain or creek bottom? Wood type?


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## MrGriz (Jun 18, 2007)

Sure sounds like it's very dull. The big question is how did it get that way.

From experience I can tell you that a sharp chain will turn dull in a hurry if you even think about hitting the dirt with it. It's just amazing how a little ground can dull a chain faster than concrete.

I would also check to make sure that the oiler is working properly. Excess heat can also work a number on a good chain in a short time. Hold the tip of the saw a couple of inches away from a clean piece of wood and open her up. Look to see if the saw is throwing oil (this should only take a few seconds at WOT to see).

I'm sure you'll get better advice soon, but I would start there.


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## 911crash (Jun 18, 2007)

does the chain have a green link or yellow link. green is for novice less kickback. my dealer makes fun of me and tries to sneak me a green one/


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## BostonBull (Jun 18, 2007)

orlimar105 said:


> Don't think dirt contamination is an issue. Chain feels like its sliding on top of the wood, rather than actually cutting it. Could it be chain tension?



So your cutting the wood the right way then right? Halfway through be ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE to keep the WHOLE bar and chain out of the ground/dirt. Then you flipped the log over and finished your cuts. You never hit a rock, dirt...of any kind even sand, or metal right?

Post some pictures of your chain and we'll saolve this REAL quick!


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## Wismer (Jun 18, 2007)

orlimar105 said:


> Then I topped up the gas (checking the lubricant as well) and it was after that when the problems started. I did use the Stihl gas additive. Chain does feel dull, but how can that be with less than 20 mins of real-time use?



Welcome to the site bud, sorry to harp on this but you haven't made it crystal clear... to me at least. There is TWO resevoirs on your chainsaw. One is for a mix of gasoline and two stroke oil, the other is for chain/bar oil. You should have to fill the chain/bar oil resevoir every time you fill up with gas mix. Failure to do so results in your chain overheating and your saw running hot. This can cause a flurry of problems such as chain stretch, dulling quick, etc etc.

Best of luck


Craig Wismer


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## orlimar105 (Jun 19, 2007)

Thanks for your advice. I did check chain/bar oil after filling up the gasoline tank, and it was close to full. Will take some pics when I return to the house and post them.


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## turnkey4099 (Jun 19, 2007)

orlimar105 said:


> Thanks for your advice. I did check chain/bar oil after filling up the gasoline tank, and it was close to full. Will take some pics when I return to the house and post them.



Above you said you "topped up" the fuel. If the fuel tank was down enough to need topping up but the oil tank was near full you aren't getting anywhere near enough oil to the bar. There should be an oiler adjustment on the saw. I set all mine to max which will run almost a full tank of oil per full tank gas.

My guess for the problem is that you hit something other than wood complicated by not enough oil. Chain is definitely dull. My first suspicion was that the chain was on backward but since you had done some cutting with it that doesn't apply.

Harry K


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## DGG (Jun 19, 2007)

If it were me I'd make a little trip over to the dealer with the saw, a piece of the wood you were cutting, and a box of Drunken Donuts in hand and lay this problem in his lap.

With a smile on your face, nicely tell him the saw he sold you is a "dog" and you want all your money back.

Then sit back and calmly wait for his comments.

I'm sure they will be educational.


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## Wismer (Jun 19, 2007)

orlimar105 said:


> I did check chain/bar oil after filling up the gasoline tank, and it was close to full.



That's not right. It should run through bar oil approximately the same amount as your has mix. As some one stated before, I also run my saws at max bar oil output. 



orlimar105 said:


> Will take some pics when I return to the house and post them.



Sounds good


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## SilentElk (Jun 20, 2007)

Typically the gas and chain oil will go about the same speed. Actually, there should always be a little bit of oil left when you run out of gas but never more than half and likely closer to 20% of full.

Still sounds dull to me. It really hardly takes much dirt to mess up a good chain. It wouldnt feel gritty at all either. Also a single nail or piece of wire fence in a piece of tree could do it to. Basically, if you hit a piece it bends the tip of the edge under. Then when try and cut more the wood pressing against the bent edge pushes it further until its just so bad you dont get anywhere. 

Dont worry, the free safety chain is junk in my opinion and I usually toss them after they go dull once. Not worth the effort to resharpen in my opinion.


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## joesawer (Jun 20, 2007)

Hey guys, Don't discurage this guy from using ANSI low kick back chain.


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## PA Plumber (Jun 20, 2007)

joesawer said:


> Hey guys, Don't discurage this guy from using ANSI low kick back chain.




Good post Joe. I have quite a few lengths of low kickback chain. For what I'm doing, I just take the rakers down an extra couple of thousands and it cuts very well.


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## orlimar105 (Jun 20, 2007)

One question: does it matter whether one uses 89 or 91 grade gasoline in a Stihl chainsaw? At the back of my mind, I'm thinking I may have possibly filled it up with 89 grade, notwithstanding the manual says 91. Maybe that would explain the white smoke...


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## SilentElk (Jun 20, 2007)

orlimar105 said:


> One question: does it matter whether one uses 89 or 91 grade gasoline in a Stihl chainsaw? At the back of my mind, I'm thinking I may have possibly filled it up with 89 grade, notwithstanding the manual says 91. Maybe that would explain the white smoke...



Should not matter that much really. I ran chainsaws on 87 plenty of times. 

The white smoke is coming from the exhaust? If so thats bad news for sure.


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## Wismer (Jun 20, 2007)

Good point SilentElk, Where exactly is the white smoke coming from orlimar?


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## Sprig (Jun 20, 2007)

Wismer said:


> Good point SilentElk, Where exactly is the white smoke coming from orlimar?



A-yup. If there be white smoke coming outta the exhaust I'd be dumpin that gas mix into a jar real quick to have a look-see in a day or so. I pity the poor fools on this rock who've run their tools on regular gas (not so great in some cars too). Last time I dealt with this was my poor little ol' Stihl, still have a jar of it sitting in my shed I think, about 1/2" of water in a 500ml container, nice, real nice; hm, saw wouldn't even run tho but having a car or three blow head gaskets..............white smoke............gotta hate it.........
It does sound like the gents oiler isn't doing its job, I was thinking maybe plugged/painted over oiler holes in the bar, especially if he were trying to cut with a dulled chain to start with, easy enough to check out, and run a bar-groove cleaner along the length while you're at it as well as some wire through the oiler holes. Oil use/gas use comments are right on, the newer saw use a little less oil but it should still be at least 3/4:1 for oil and gas mix usage imho.
Just my inane 0.02$ worth for the lazy morning.

 & let us know wassup eh!

Serge


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## ropensaddle (Jun 20, 2007)

I once was asked the same question from a new feller
got to lookin at his saw and he was running it with chain
brake engaged. I asked him and he said the chain was stuck
at first so he throttled her up and hit the bar on the log until it
started spinning.I showed him the brake function and told him 
he needed to get a new band and sprocket and needle bearings 
and disengage brake when running the saw. I was surprised
his dealer did not tell him but probably thought he would know.
Your situation sounds like oiler adjust and dull chain it actually
can get dull in one second so twenty minutes is not unbelievable
if you did not hit dirt something embedded in wood and even
dirty wood can dull a saw fast.


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## cleaverp (Sep 23, 2011)

*Mr P*

My Stihl 211 is only 8 days old and the chain is already smoking, so you should feel pleased yours lasted so long! It now barely cuts through a 2" log and a 3" log is hard going with smoke and burn marks. I'll be sharpening it this evening to see if that changes anything.


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## russhd1997 (Sep 23, 2011)

On the MS290 there ia small hole in the handle framework under the saw to adjust the oil pump. It also has small + and - symbols stamped into the handle frame so that you know which way to turn it. I set all of my saws on max. It sure sounds like your chain is dull too.


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## Youngbuck20 (Sep 23, 2011)

he said it feels like the chain is sliding through the wood and not cutting it. sounds like the bar could be bent. try cutting and when it starts "sliding" on the wood tilt the saw one way or the other and see if it starts cutting.


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## Toddppm (Sep 23, 2011)

No way opcorn:


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## PA Plumber (Sep 23, 2011)

Toddppm said:


> No way opcorn:


 
Yuhhuh, I had a friend, who had a buddy, who had a brother, who had a cousin with a bar that might be like this once.

The other day I did have a chain "sliding" instead of cutting. I laughed out loud, walked back to the truck and didn't even look at the chain until the bar clutch cover was off. Flipped over the chain and we were good to go.

A friend was with me and he even had a good chuckle. It might've smoked, but I didn't try to cut long enough to find out.


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## Youngbuck20 (Sep 23, 2011)

Sounds like you need someone more qualified to put your chain on for you.


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## PA Plumber (Sep 23, 2011)

Yeeeuuuup. I think that's the third time that's happened to me now.

At least the scrench was only about 30 feet away. Used to not carry much on me in the woods when felling, to try to stay light. A hundred and some odd yard walk back to the truck cured me of that real fast.


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## Youngbuck20 (Sep 23, 2011)

They fit just about perfectly in your back pocket. That is if your not climbing.


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## PA Plumber (Sep 23, 2011)

Picked up a wedge pouch. 3 wedges, a file, a scrench, and the belt was a good spot to tuck a wedge axe when moving.

I'm not a logger, but found this worked for me. I'm just a regular firewood getter, but have logged off a few acres of decent Eastern Hemlock. 


Back to topic, I still wonder if the second poster doesn't have a dull chain. Especially if the chain brake is not on, the oiler is working correctly, and the saw has plenty of bar oil.

Post a pic of the chain?


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## Tree Pig (Sep 23, 2011)

someone asked earlier if you had hit the dirt with it once or twice and you replied that you dont think its dirt contamination. I dont think you get the point of his question, its not a contamination issue but one or two times into the dirt with a running saw and you can bet your ass you are going to have to sharpen it. Also I do agree with who ever mentioned, find your bar oil adjustment and turn it all the way up you should be using at least 3/4 tank of bar oil for every tank of gas. learn now how to clean your bar properly too. feel the edge of your bar now right on the side of were the chain rides if you feel a ridge you are already doing damage to the bar.


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## troythetreeman (Sep 23, 2011)

sounds a lot like you hit the dirt to me, or maybe a nail or rock, its possible to only dull one side, in which case your saw will cut in circles
if it was cutting fine, and then it wasnt, and you didnt bend the bar, which btw isnt easy, then your chain is dull
dont cut with a dull chain, its dangerous, its hard on your saw and its hard on you


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## Streblerm (Sep 24, 2011)

orlimar105 said:


> For a while the saw was working well, cutting through the wood smoothly. Then I topped up the gas (checking the lubricant as well) and it was after that when the problems started. I did use the Stihl gas additive. Chain does feel dull, but how can that be with less than 20 mins of real-time use?


 
20 minutes of use is more than enough time to dull a chain. I generally sharpen my chain after each tank or two of gas depending on what I am cutting. As others have said, if you even touch the ground for an instant with a chain that is spinning, that chain will be dulled instantly. Chain sharpening is a regular part of chainsaw use. If it feels dull, it probably is very dull.


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## littlejoetqt (Sep 24, 2011)

Dull is likely your answer. If this is your first adventure in using a chainsaw, you are soon to learn that sharpening is part of life with a saw. I've gone entire (8-10 hour) days without sharpening, and sharpened 10 times in a day. A lot depends on the wood you're cutting, some on the time of year, and some on little mistakes every one of us makes. I have to cut my stumps ground level at work, so on occasion I'll miss a rock laid up on the side of a tree. Once in a blue moon, I'll run my saw in the dirt, though I am very careful to avoid it. Sometimes bark is muddy cutting deadfalls and bucking logs, and that can dull a saw surprisingly fast. Some trees are just dirty, and some species dull a saw quickly by nature(read: hickory, sugar maple, locust, etc.)

If you've been running this saw like this for very long, it's likely you've trashed your bar. I have seen bars overheated and warped, and with that, you're not going to cut anything bigger than 1/4 your bar's length without binding up the saw. knife edging happens quickly when you run it dull or without oil, too. Knife edging can cause your saw to perform poorly, as well. However, if while you're just starting in the cut, and the saw isn't pulling out of your hand a little(a lot if you run your rakers like I do), then your chain needs attention.

Again, if this is your first adventure with a chainsaw, you need to find someone you know who can teach you how to sharpen a saw in the field. If you can't, you'll need to carry extra chains to get you through your cutting duties, and then take your chains to the stihl shop for sharpening. IMO, the local saw shops around here can't put the edge on a saw that an individual with some skill and a file can do, faster and cheaper. For what it costs to have 2 chains sharpened, you can have a file and a handle. Not sure what the file guides cost, never owned one. However, I had someone who was very good at it to teach me to do it without a guide. I'm just a noob, but hopefully this will help.


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## GASoline71 (Sep 24, 2011)

Someone dredged the waters for this one. 4 year old thread. Imma gonna move it anyways.

Gary


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## Youngbuck20 (Sep 24, 2011)

Holy Christ! 4 years old! Hope he's got that chain situation taken care of, didn't pay attention to the date.


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## cleaverp (Sep 26, 2011)

*Smokin Stihl*

I sharpened it, and then cleared all the sawdust out of the insides, ensuring the oil-feed was clear, and it seems ok now. But really, 8 days old and the chain needs sharpening?


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## PA Plumber (Sep 26, 2011)

cleaverp said:


> I sharpened it, and then cleared all the sawdust out of the insides, ensuring the oil-feed was clear, and it seems ok now. But really, 8 days old and the chain needs sharpening?


 
I would love it if my chains would cut great for 8 days.

I rarely get more than 2 tanks out of a chain before it needs sharpened. Sometimes I go longer, but it's not because the chain doesn't need some attention.


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## Slamm (Sep 26, 2011)

The amount of time you have cutting with the "new" chain doesn't matter if you knowingly or unknowingly hit dirt or a rock or metal, it happens. Could be the first 1" or the last 1", but dull is dull, as a novice sometimes you aren't capable of paying attention to all things all the time and some part of the chain hit something it shouldn't have and you didn't notice it. Put photo up of the chain, put the camera on Macro or the "flower" symbol for close up photos and as stated before, the problem will be solved and solutions will be provided. Otherwise everyone is just guessing.

Sam


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## Fish (Sep 26, 2011)

I had an old dude once bring back a chain I just sharpened, saying I didn't do a good job, he was cutting up some trees that fell in a storm.

I tell all of my customers, that they can play the "Fish sharpened it wrong " card, but only once, for life!!!!....

I touched the chain up again, and told him that he hit something, he said "[email protected]#$%$%^&*( etc"

When he brought back the same chain an hour later, complaining, I said I will do it 1 more time for free, but I am coming with you.....

It was lunchtime anyway, but when he arrived, he had a lot of young guys helping load wood standing around, so I understood his pain.

First cut he made through a log on the ground went 2-3 inches into the dirt below..........


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## troythetreeman (Sep 26, 2011)

PA Plumber said:


> I would love it if my chains would cut great for 8 days.
> 
> I rarely get more than 2 tanks out of a chain before it needs sharpened. Sometimes I go longer, but it's not because the chain doesn't need some attention.


 
wow man, what are you cutting? i rarely need to sharpen a saw that i didnt hit something with, with the exception of my climbers, those get hit with a file weekly or so


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## PA Plumber (Sep 26, 2011)

A few varieties of Oak, Hickory and Maple, some Beech, Cherry and a couple of others. Mostly cut dead standing or deadfalls, often seasoned trees.

Even when cutting some live Eastern Hemlock, I still liked to touch up the chain pretty often.

Maybe I've started to become a sharp chain snob. It drives me crazy when the saw isn't pulling itself through the cut.

A sharp chain and a 441 will give ya a pile of wood ready to load, after a couple of tankfulls of fuel!


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## russhd1997 (Sep 27, 2011)

PA Plumber said:


> A few varieties of Oak, Hickory and Maple, some Beech, Cherry and a couple of others. Mostly cut dead standing or deadfalls, often seasoned trees.
> 
> Even when cutting some live Eastern Hemlock, I still liked to touch up the chain pretty often.
> 
> ...



I like sharp chains too. Much less work for the saw and the operator. Now that I am starting to get a collection of saws it is nice to have a sharp one to grab and keep on cutting.


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