# Pros/Cons of Swing & Band



## AaronB (Apr 18, 2014)

I not looking for anyone to bash the other type, but in doing research I am having a hard time finding the Pros of a band over a swing? The one I do see is a bandmill handles small logs easier but it is still doable with a swing might just need to secure it a bit more.

Basically I am just looking for Pros/Cons of the either mill you can give, maybe just asking here will get me answers I might not be seeing just doing searches.

It seems that everything "can" be done with both (i.e. quartersawing) the biggest thing is portability and not having a lot of equipment to move logs around, seems easier to build the mill around the log like the swing.

Thanks


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## PhilB (Apr 18, 2014)

One pro for a bandsaw mill is the ability to make wide slabs for table tops and other furniture. If dimensional lumber is all you want a swing mill seems to be a good choice.


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## psgflier (Apr 18, 2014)

I've done quite a bit with a chainsaw mill, a band saw mill, and have been around circle saw mills(mobile dimension) quite a bit.
I helped some guy's set up a Lucas mill a few years ago, and was impressed by it. I guess other swing mills are similar.
Band saw mill generally has a narrower kerf, you can get more lumber out of a log, and has a nicer finish, if it's operating correctly. Even with trailer set ups, or small put-together mills, you have to load the log on the mill. You are also restricted in the size of the logs you mill by the length of the track and the throat.
The swing mills I've seen can be taken to the log by one, preferably two guys, set up over the log, and adjusted to the log for run-out, and for uneven ground. The swing mill is pretty fast at producing dimension lumber, restricted by the size of the blade, but it can break down almost any size log depending on the height and length of the stands. You can make wider boards, but it's kind of a convoluted process. You can get a slabbing bar that works for making wide flitches or cants to be broken down later or used live edge.


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## AaronB (Apr 18, 2014)

I didn't know the finish on the band was smoother than the swing, figured they were about the same.
The finish on a swing has got to be better than a chainsaw mill though, right?

Wide boards bandsaw: can be done with slabber or double cut like you said, plus in woodworking wide boards are not usually needed, and the wide boards I do cut with my chainsaw mill split down the middle anyway.
More wood: I can see where thin kerf wins with the bandsaw but you have to handle the log more to get the same type of cuts you can with a swing.

I know swings are semi made for really big logs and I will only come across those once in a while but it would be nice to just take the mill to the log, seems like a lot less equipment I would need in the end.

Thanks for the info guys, I'll keep digging around.


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 19, 2014)

AaronB said:


> I didn't know the finish on the band was smoother than the swing, figured they were about the same.
> The finish on a swing has got to be better than a chainsaw mill though, right?
> 
> Wide boards bandsaw: can be done with slabber or double cut like you said, plus in woodworking wide boards are not usually needed, and the wide boards I do cut with my chainsaw mill split down the middle anyway.
> ...



You cannot "grade saw" without turning the log, something easy to do on a BSM so it easily turns out "higher quality" lumber! You can not get "true" quarter sawn lumber with out cutting your "quarter's" and then turning them for "true" quarter sawn lumber, how do you do that on a swinger? There's the wider kerf of the swinger and they use quite a bit more fuel. Wide boards can be double cut on a swinger, but how many are you going to get out of a log? And, they are waaaaaay slower to cut out on a swinger. A BSM can cut a wide board every pass, no extra time needed for double cuts or set up's!

I disagree that lumber over 8 or 10" isn't cut often. I mill out 2x12's fairly often, and I get them out fast. Nice wider lumber has a much higher value if you sell it.

Bottom line is, a BSM is a MUCH more versatile mill, the swinger is better for a few things that it does best, but for everyday milling with 99% of the logs a person gets, a BSM wins hands down!

BTW, the bigger slabs that come off a BSM, make much better firewood too! lol

SR


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## AaronB (Apr 19, 2014)

SR, thanks for the info, what you say makes sense and is good info for thought.

Just a couple of questions: Quartersawing on a swing seems to be done by just making cuts parallel to the rings, see below
Lastly lumbering moving equipment: Seems like you need none with a Swing but need things for band, which add cost. Just wanted to get your thoughts on extra equipment needed for a band.


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 19, 2014)

Not all the boards in your diagram are Q. sawn, some are rift sawn. For true Q sawing, you have to turn the quarters, something that's VERY hard to do on a swinger.

As for support equipment, actually both need them for the best ease of use. How are you going to turn out the best lumber without turning the log??

Anything that will drag a log will get it to the BSM, pickups, old cars, tractors of all sizes, even an ATV will get the job done with an arch. Once you have the mill, you will find ways to overcome the other problems...

A swinger is too specialized to be a good a good all around sawmill...

SR


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## rwthom279 (Apr 19, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said it well regarding a bandmill. *thumbs up*

Another thing to look at is dealing with stress in the lumber your producing. To deal with internal stresses, the cant *must* be turned... unless you are starting a rocking chair factory. Watch some YouTube videos of the lumber coming off a swing mill. Many times you can literally watch the board curl up and away as it's being cut.  Many times its a combination of both bow and sweep in the lumber. No matter how well you stack and weigh that framing lumber down, it'll never frame up a good wall. JMO All depends on what quality you're looking for.

If you're looking at breaking BIG logs down, then a swinger is the best tool for the job. The EZ Boardwalk 40 is a darn good bandmill that will handle some good size timber and is pretty affordable. Hands down, the best built mill in their class, with more features and constructed from better/heavier materials than any other company IMO.

Below is a link to some good reading on the subject of recovery, blade costs, productivity, etc. The numbers and math explaining it is pretty interesting. It also gives some good arguments for band, swing and circular mills. Since you're in the research stage, this might prove fairly useful.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Sawmill_recovery_rate.html

Good luck in your decision!


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## AaronB (Apr 20, 2014)

rwthom279 said:


> Sawyer Rob said it well regarding a bandmill. *thumbs up*
> 
> Below is a link to some good reading on the subject of recovery, blade costs, productivity, etc. The numbers and math explaining it is pretty interesting. It also gives some good arguments for band, swing and circular mills. Since you're in the research stage, this might prove fairly useful.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link, looks like there are quite of few pluses when it comes the the swing when it comes to blade cost/sharpening and how long they last, looks like you can sharpen on the mill and and go again, also more talk that places don't want boards over 12" wide, but that probably just depends on who you are selling to.

Just going to have to weigh the differences between the two and see what I come up with, seems like there is a counter-argument for every good/bad point on either type of mill.


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 20, 2014)

AaronB said:


> Just going to have to weigh the differences between the two and see what I come up with, seems like there is a counter-argument for every good/bad point on either type of mill.



Unless you are biased toward a swinger, (and it appears you are) I don't see how you can say that???

What's the swingers counter argument to the BSM's "grade sawing", "Q sawing", "using less fuel", in most cases "cost less", "smaller kerf", and better use slabs for firewood and much better use of small logs!

There's more, but that's a good start!

Unless you are milling a lot of BIG logs, I just don't see a swinger even coming close to being near as good "all around use" sawmill...

BTW, my brother touched up his bands on his mill with a dremel...

SR


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## Hddnis (Apr 23, 2014)

Local trim and moulding mill says he prefers to buy wood from guys who run swingers because the wood dimensions are much more consistent.




Mr. HE


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 23, 2014)

Hddnis said:


> Local trim and moulding mill says he prefers to buy wood from guys who run swingers because the wood dimensions are much more consistent.
> Mr. HE



ANY sawmill is only as accurate as the owner! Proof of that is, check out this pict. I took of a swinger in action,







That's FAR from accurate!

But, on the other hand, any decent tuned up BSM will do this,
















SO, like I said, it's all about the owner, not the mill.

SR


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## Hddnis (Apr 24, 2014)

I had a bandmill, I know what they can do, what I was saying was that a guy who buys product from several mills has a preference.


Mr. HE


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## Dave Boyt (Apr 28, 2014)

I think the problem is you are basing your ideas on what you're reading. You need to get out and EXPERIENCE both types of mills. As far as the allowable thickness issue, it probably depends on the buyer and his experience. When I was milling flooring (Norwood band mill), I was told that it was OK to cut boards 1-1/16" instead of 1-1/8" because of the consistent cuts and smooth surface. That's a 6% increase in yield, plus a 14% increase due to the thinner kerf. In other words, I was getting a total of 20% more lumber out of every log with my band mill. Sharp blades, pay attention to keeping it tuned up, and mill for grade. And I cut 1,200 bd ft with less than three gallons of fuel. As far as setting up the mill over the log, you'd need to weigh the time required to set up the mill against the time to move the log. I've had several jobs where I've had to move the band mill from one log to another, and it is never a problem. Are you looking for a specific niche, or cutting dimension lumber? My most profitable milling is specialty cutting, like this walnut crotch. How would you cut this with a swing blade mill?


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## Grande Dog (Apr 28, 2014)

Howdy,
Some swing blades can cut a decent slab. 

Regards
Gregg


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