# help me fix my twuck



## treemandan (Nov 18, 2009)

my twuck, my twuck, its bwoke !

lets see if I can pick the fine minds here with what's done brewed:

A month ago the bendix drive of the starter kinda was hanging up in the ring gear on the flex-plate. I put another one in and now I have the same problem.
When I put the new starter in I looked at the ring gear, it had some wear but I popped in the 50 dollar starter and it sounded good. 
So I took a good look at the ring gear today, there are some areas that are a little hammered . Burred and peaned over but not really beat up. I am think the bendix gear is not releasing fast enough because of the burrs and the little bendix drive is being spun by the engine and its kicking its little bendix drive's ass.
the usually fix is to replace the flex-plate and ring gear and starter and that is fine if that is what it is BUT...
What is I deburred the ring gear while it is still on the truck? The ring gear is not completly wasted. the amount of burring is about the same as a 44 with a really bad bar. It won't work with a dam but you just clean up the bar and you are good to go. I was thinking some light duty die grinder action or Dremel would clean up the burrs and such, i am not looking to be carving into the ring gear at all and was thinking of using stone or plastic whizzers.
I was just wondering what you all thought. I have seen really bad ring gears but this one don't look to bad.


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## logging22 (Nov 18, 2009)

U got enough room for that kind of operation? If so, who knows it just might work. Have never heard of that, but ya never no. Keep posted.


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## GlennG (Nov 18, 2009)

TMDAN 

What kinda truck/transmission. How many miles? Average trip length? FOrd Diesel? Sounds like your truck needs a ring gear.


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## KodiakKen (Nov 18, 2009)

*yeah no kidding need more info*

I had a ford truck once..well I have always had fords...now own a chevy..bad call..but we won't relive that..fords have a one wire started from what was explained to me..the bendix runs off the starter and sometimes develops a burr in the bendix that does not let it retract all the way and sometimes , on rare occassion, keeps the starter engaged. I had this on one truck. If and only IF you are still under warranty..drive it to the dealer while the condition exists..they will fix it. I blew up 2 starters and one flywheel doing this..If you have a chevy or are out of warranty..i can't help you..buy a newer vehicle and get rid of that headache while you can. keep us posted.


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## treemandan (Nov 18, 2009)

KodiakKen said:


> I had a ford truck once..well I have always had fords...now own a chevy..bad call..but we won't relive that..fords have a one wire started from what was explained to me..the bendix runs off the starter and sometimes develops a burr in the bendix that does not let it retract all the way and sometimes , on rare occassion, keeps the starter engaged. I had this on one truck. If and only IF you are still under warranty..drive it to the dealer while the condition exists..they will fix it. I blew up 2 starters and one flywheel doing this..If you have a chevy or are out of warranty..i can't help you..buy a newer vehicle and get rid of that headache while you can. keep us posted.



Like I said, its a TWUCK, there is no warranty on them. #### FIX MY TWUCK!

91 F150 302 aod. 4x4. the warranty on these is you fix it yoself and I can and will but this burring might just be the only thing here. 
Of course I am using an Excel unit from Napa so the problem might be there and its a coindence the same thing that happened to my very old and used starter happen to the "quality rebuilds" of chain stores. I used to have this kind of stuff rebulit by a good guy but he is no longer. He would tell me to stop being and idiot and put a flex-plate in the truck probably.


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## magna19 (Nov 18, 2009)

which starter do you have in it,the direct drive or the gear reduction type?

ive had a problem with the direct drive sticking in when the bendix return tangs break off and just lets the bendix flop around in the housing.they should only have power to them when you turn the key to start.

now the gear reduction ones are a diffrent story.they have power to them,and they run a start wire to it.so the solenoid might stick on them sometimes.never had one do it.

if the flexplate is that bad to take out the bendix,then replacing the flexplate would be a good thing to do.


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## Blazin (Nov 18, 2009)

First problem....Napa starters blow!! Bout everyone I've tried to use gives the ole dreaded ZIIIIIIIIIIIINNNGG after a real short period of time....like in days! I put two on my dump truck in a week recently, Finally got one from Advance and problem solved. You can clean up the ring gear with a dremel for some minor dings, but if it's severely peened over it be lookin like you'll be puttin one in.


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## toddstreeservic (Nov 18, 2009)

let off the key when starting :monkey:


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## TDunk (Nov 18, 2009)

Blazin said:


> First problem....Napa starters blow!! Bout everyone I've tried to use gives the ole dreaded ZIIIIIIIIIIIINNNGG after a real short period of time....like in days! I put two on my dump truck in a week recently, Finally got one from Advance and problem solved. You can clean up the ring gear with a dremel for some minor dings, but if it's severely peened over it be lookin like you'll be puttin one in.



I've had very few problems with NAPA's electrical stuff, and that's pretty much all we buy. Now AZ stuff blows. But i'd prolly plan on putting in a flex plate though.


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## tree MDS (Nov 18, 2009)

I'm thinking your issue may be more of the "emblematic" nature dano.

A toyota and all gmc here.


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## treemandan (Nov 18, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I'm thinking your issue may be more of the "emblematic" nature dano.
> 
> A toyota and all gmc here.



I would say piss on them all, just get it fixed right and get ready for the next thing. 
I had it in the shop for some easy "adjustments" on the life and the front steel brake lines were shot. I could have rolled around on the ground flairing and getting dripped up with brake fluid but I shelled out the three hundred and was glad caus eI really don't like flairing brake lines. Even Steve ( wrencher) said its a pain and I know. I always break the flair tool bit and have even lost my good set of tools for that and if you don't flair with the good stuff its just not gonna work. If you really take your time and get evrything perfect before you flair it can be done but I stick to unions and new line only.
But I will pull this trans and do the flex-plate here at my place on the ground. Its around a thousand to have it done. Aside from time lost getting off the floor and keeping neat it should be do able. Aside from the 150 for the trans jack adapter parts come to around 300 or so. Flex-plate, rear seal, solenoid, starter. I should at least get a core back from the old new starter and I will pop the solenoid in first to make sure its not energizing the starter for to long but it doesn't sound like that. You don't hear the starter cranking if it was energized still while the engine was running. Just the spin of the bendix getting held up for a second after the engine starts. It is getting worse.
I haven't looked but I would figure the labor time guide book would allow at least 6 hours for the work and when Steve called me with the price I was right on. He did say 810 which is what the labor rate 510 plus average price cost 300 but he said he would give me break of about 50 bucks. I'll get it done in my spare time. Should be cleaning up the shop right now.

One of the time I saw this was on a chevy 3500 dump. The actually bendix was loose sliding freely and at certain rpm it would contact the flywheel. for 260 we got fat ass ol crabby harry hallco to do it up. One thing was for certain about him and that was he was never wrong. HE could tell you why it won't crank over the phone its just that you really wouldn't want him to. Didn't know if he was going help ya or start curseing your mother for having had ya.


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## tree MDS (Nov 19, 2009)

I hear ya on the brakelines dano. I've got that truck I'm working on in the shop, frame blasted and painted/POR 15'd (where my lazy azzed sandblaster guy slacked off), the cab is in too (on its back getting cleaned up painted and caulked). The next step (soon hopefully) is all the brakelines and fuel lines, (plus new tanks and brackets) then I can put the cab back on- what a pita that crap is! I just want to get to the part where I start slapping on shiny new parts.  

I can do some mechanic work, but I preffer welding and some light bodywork. Let someone else handle that other crap is what I do mostly.


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## brisawyer (Nov 19, 2009)

Check the end play on the crank. Sometimes the thrust bearing gets worn lets the crank slide back and forth and causes starter engagement issues.


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## Garden Of Eden (Nov 19, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Like I said, its a TWUCK, there is no warranty on them. #### FIX MY TWUCK!
> 
> 91 F150 302 aod. 4x4. the warranty on these is you fix it yoself and I can and will but this burring might just be the only thing here.
> Of course I am using an Excel unit from Napa so the problem might be there and its a coindence the same thing that happened to my very old and used starter happen to the "quality rebuilds" of chain stores. I used to have this kind of stuff rebulit by a good guy but he is no longer. He would tell me to stop being and idiot and put a flex-plate in the truck probably.



Hey,

Talked to my grandfather today. Millwright for 40+ yrs. He says de-burr, and try and salvage the flex-plate, as the new ones aren't the same quality steel. Also, I've gone through MANY NAPA starters, I ended up getting a salvaged one. He said try getting a salvaged Flex-plate too. Older metal is better.

Sorry it don't work man. Good luck, and thanks for buying American.

God Bless,

Jeff


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## streeter (Nov 21, 2009)

treemandan said:


> He would tell me to stop being and idiot and put a flex-plate in the truck probably.



Yep, broke or just plain fatiged.


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## JohnL (Nov 30, 2009)

Don't know about Fords but the older chevys needed to be shimmed to get the right starter to flexplate mesh. Too close is bad, too much seperation is bad.


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## crewchief264 (Jan 2, 2010)

*Fix your Twuck*



treemandan said:


> Like I said, its a TWUCK, there is no warranty on them. #### FIX MY TWUCK!
> 
> 91 F150 302 aod. 4x4. the warranty on these is you fix it yoself and I can and will but this burring might just be the only thing here.
> Of course I am using an Excel unit from Napa so the problem might be there and its a coindence the same thing that happened to my very old and used starter happen to the "quality rebuilds" of chain stores. I used to have this kind of stuff rebulit by a good guy but he is no longer. He would tell me to stop being and idiot and put a flex-plate in the truck probably.



Not sure if this will help ya. I have a 1983 k5 blazer replaced the 305 motor with a 350. I saved my 305 flexplate and starter. Any how the motor went boom and I made the mistake of taking it to someone. Anyhow the new 350 was 1976 motor, and they used my 1983 305 starter. everything was fine for a coupl emonth then the starter went bad. So I get another one. same problem you were having. ended up I needed a 1976 starter since the flex plate was a 1976 it took some research but problem solved. 

Maybe you just got the wrong replacment starter. My teeth would engage about the first 1/3 of the flexplate teeth. I dunno why car manufactures have to make stupid changes like this. 

Hope that helps


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## Walt41 (Jan 2, 2010)

I personally hate rebuilt starters. Go to the boneyard and get one, clean up the flywheel with a dremel and rock on!


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## treemandan (Jan 2, 2010)

Walt41 said:


> I personally hate rebuilt starters. Go to the boneyard and get one, clean up the flywheel with a dremel and rock on!



Yeah. I am on my second Napa starter for my other truck in less than a year.

I ended up pulling the transmission and replacing the flex-plate. I told the guy at Napa " flex-plate" and he gets me a flywheel. The old flex-plate had some teeth that were rather beat up.
After that I pulled the front differential to replace an axle seal. I had driven it around for awhile and it was fine. I put the plow on it and it wouldn't shift outta first and the CES light came on with a bunch of codes. I have it at my buddies shop which has been closed for the hoildays. I am headed up there on Mon, I think I have a bad ground.


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## crewchief264 (Jan 2, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Yeah. I am on my second Napa starter for my other truck in less than a year.
> 
> I ended up pulling the transmission and replacing the flex-plate. I told the guy at Napa " flex-plate" and he gets me a flywheel. The old flex-plate had some teeth that were rather beat up.
> After that I pulled the front differential to replace an axle seal. I had driven it around for awhile and it was fine. I put the plow on it and it wouldn't shift outta first and the CES light came on with a bunch of codes. I have it at my buddies shop which has been closed for the hoildays. I am headed up there on Mon, I think I have a bad ground.



Based on your thread. I think your truck is ready for a frame off restoration. You can only repair so much, and the snow belt is hard on equipment. Sounds like you fixed the starter issue though


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## treemandan (Jan 2, 2010)

crewchief264 said:


> Based on your thread. I think your truck is ready for a frame off restoration. You can only repair so much, and the snow belt is hard on equipment. Sounds like you fixed the starter issue though



Its not as bad as it sounds. Its only had a plow for 1 season. Body panels show no rust, its a 91. Frame and suspension is in good shape. Interior isn't to bad but its a work truck. I don't drive it for anything else. I put 3 -4 k on it a year. It don't look that bad either.


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## Walt41 (Jan 2, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Its not as bad as it sounds. Its only had a plow for 1 season. Body panels show no rust, its a 91. Frame and suspension is in good shape. Interior isn't to bad but its a work truck. I don't drive it for anything else. I put 3 -4 k on it a year. It don't look that bad either.



look at it this way, Ford makes a heck of a truck and soon they are announcing the comeback of the 302, at least in the mustangs. You are ahead of the market!


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## treemandan (Jan 2, 2010)

Walt41 said:


> look at it this way, Ford makes a heck of a truck and soon they are announcing the comeback of the 302, at least in the mustangs. You are ahead of the market!



That's why I have it. I like a small block pushrod engine made from iron.


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## Positrack (Jan 17, 2010)

JohnL said:


> Don't know about Fords but the older chevys needed to be shimmed to get the right starter to flexplate mesh. Too close is bad, too much seperation is bad.




What he said. That'd be the first thing I'd check anyway, before taking any other drastic measures. If it's whining loudly when you crank it or the outside portion of the RG teeth are peened/shiny, it needs shimmed out.


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## loadthestove (Jan 17, 2010)

Walt41 said:


> I personally hate rebuilt starters. Go to the boneyard and get one, clean up the flywheel with a dremel and rock on!



Don't understand your logic with this comment.I own a starter/alternator rebuild shop and have so for 22 years.you talk of buying used units.do you have any idea how much life is left in them????

Also a lot of the chain stores are getting their units from overseas or some cut rate re-builder who uses the cheapest quality parts to rebuild with.

For the OP,,your model truck uses a fender mount solenoid that makes the starter engage, try replacing this first.As for the flywheel ,,leave it alone.In my experience I have never seen a bad flywheel that prevented a started from disengaging,it is usually just the opposite they will not engage.Also something else you might want to consider.on ford truck the starter bolts to the bell housing ,not on the motor like a GM product.check and see if you bell housing has move a little.If it has you bendix clearance could be to tight preventing starter from disengaging.

Another thing I have noticed on several vehicles,,ford/gm/toyota//..the teeth on the ring gear is wore down this prevents a proper engagement of the bendix to the flywheel.if possible compare the length of you flywheel teeth to a new one.You may be surprised.

Also the only time a ford stater needs shimmed is if the thrust bearing is worn out in the engine allowing the crank to move front to back.generally the only engine with this problem was the 300 ci 6 cyl


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## deer slayer (Jan 17, 2010)

My advice.... pull the wheels off, push that p.o.s. outa the way, and park a chevy in its place & put your wheels back on..LOL (just bustin balls they all have their problems I dont care what you buy)


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