# off season business



## defensiblespace (Dec 4, 2011)

I know many of you are lucky enough to not have an off season due to snow. But here in the Sierras we get hammered with snow and it pretty much shuts down the majority of tree work except for storm cleanup. Besides doing snow removal, I was wondering what keeps the money coming in and your employees busy during the off season.


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## mattfr12 (Dec 4, 2011)

Firewood i tell my guys if they wanna split it and sell it have at it. keeps their pockets full and my lot cleaned up so i don't have giant piles of logs laying everywhere. i even went as far as to buy them a splitter their doing pretty good so far this year they sold around 10-15 cords so far and its their first year at it. i was even thinking about going in on half of a cord king with my fore man told him he could use it to sell firewood as long as i can split as much as i want for my house. them things just spit out wood.


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## superjunior (Dec 4, 2011)

un-employment, snowplowing, and a good few weeks of leave me the f##k alone. ..
I save up and look forward to this time of year


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 4, 2011)

We stay out all year, snow or not. I fill up with oak skips every year. On days I cant go out, my wife pimps me out. Plus alot of firewood goes out the door.


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## imagineero (Dec 4, 2011)

We dont get snow in most parts of Aus, but business tends to slow down a bit. Lots of guys do firewood, rubbish removal (big business in aus!) and a bit of demolition work. Chip trucks make great demolition trucks.

Shaun


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## treeman82 (Dec 4, 2011)

I've been trying to get a lot of crane work set off for the winter if it's not extremely important. Makes it easier to close roads, drive on the lawns, kill power, and also I figure so long as the crane can get set up, we're all good.


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## imagineero (Dec 4, 2011)

treeman82 said:


> I've been trying to get a lot of crane work set off for the winter if it's not extremely important. Makes it easier to close roads, drive on the lawns, kill power, and also I figure so long as the crane can get set up, we're all good.



Sounds like a good recipe for losing customers. If I win a job I try to complete it in a timely fashion. Leave it to next winter and the hungry wolves might start barking at the door. Having said that, when I bid on a job and my bid is way too high and the customer doesnt have the money, I let them know that if they can wait until winter they can very likely get a better price from me. I make a note on my quote sheet to call them back, and I go through all those jobs and give them a call come winter. I win quite a bit of work that way, which I wouldnt be interested in doing peak season.

Shaun


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## Toddppm (Dec 4, 2011)

superjunior said:


> un-employment, snowplowing, and a good few weeks of leave me the f##k alone. ..
> I save up and look forward to this time of year



That's what I'm talking about! If it aint snowing leave me alone while I veg out for a while.


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## BlackOakTreeServ (Dec 4, 2011)

defensiblespace said:


> I know many of you are lucky enough to not have an off season due to snow. But here in the Sierras we get hammered with snow and it pretty much shuts down the majority of tree work except for storm cleanup. Besides doing snow removal, I was wondering what keeps the money coming in and your employees busy during the off season.



Hi DS, I've been selling firewood here in placer county when Im not doing removals, good bonus money.

You being in truckee (your about an hour drive from me) I hear oak is selling for $400+ a cord, and a bit more in Tahoe, since it has to be trucked in, Tamarack and cedar good to, but going for less $$$......

other than that, Im still working a bit, and enjoying some time off as well like the others here.


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## BCbound (Dec 4, 2011)

Hey DS,

You might try christmas lights. I have one fulltime employee and I do what I can to keep him happy so he can survive the slow winter. I hate hanging lights and want nothing to do with it. I save $$ for the winter to chill out a bit. I came up with a# for my guy to pay me to use all my climbing gear, truck, ladders, insurance ect. It's a tiny amount of money. Last winer he made a killing. On average he sells it a 1.00/foot.


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## defensiblespace (Dec 5, 2011)

Some good ideas here. Mattfr12 mentioned giving his employees a splitter to sell firewood. I have done the same thing. I bought a nice commercial splitter a couple of years ago thinking I was going to break into firewood. That was when I had more time to do it myself. The problem now is that I have no space to store the wood. This summer I let my main guy use my splitter all summer long. He would return to the jobsites on his own time and collect the wood we cut. He would then split it and sell it on his own. This was a win/win situation for me because I was able to get a lot of bids by not having to charge my clients for disposal of the wood. I wish I could just pay my guys to split the wood and I would sell it, but I pay them pretty well and it would be a break even venture if I did that. As for the Christmas lights, I will be doing my first job like that tomorrow. I don't have a bucket truck, so I will have to see what I can do with a 25' fir tree using a ladder. I love the idea of sitting back and relaxing or trying to ski 100 days this winter, but all of the money I made this summer is in savings for a down payment on a house. I started doing snow removal this year, but the snow hasn't started flying yet. Anyway, I really appreciate the ideas. If anybody has any more, keep em coming. Cheers


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 5, 2011)

Be careful with the Christmas lights, read about a guy who was doing it, had a short or something and burnt down a Xerox office, he went up in flames shortly after. Seemed like a decent outfit too. Was a sub for Christmas Decor and they left him high and dry. It might have been on here that I read it.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 5, 2011)

mattfr12 said:


> Firewood i tell my guys if they wanna split it and sell it have at it. keeps their pockets full and my lot cleaned up so i don't have giant piles of logs laying everywhere. i even went as far as to buy them a splitter their doing pretty good so far this year they sold around 10-15 cords so far and its their first year at it. i was even thinking about going in on half of a cord king with my fore man told him he could use it to sell firewood as long as i can split as much as i want for my house. them things just spit out wood.



This is the first year I've stockpiled wood for splitting. I've got a good bit of Locust, Cherry, and Oak piled up to be split. I don't have a splitter but if this works out OK this Winter I'll probably invest in one. You mentioned "Cord King" what are some other splitters that you can reccomend? 

Like others have mentioned I start booking work for the Winter at reduced rates in some cases, and I shift any major tree reductions to this time of year when the trees go dormant. As it stands now I've got a backlog of this work that will take me into next year. Then in February I'm on an "honor roll" which is a full page ad in the Angie's List Magazine that will hopefully bring in next Season's work early. We'll see how that works, but right now I'm in much better shape for getting through the Winter months than I have ever been.


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## brookpederson (Dec 5, 2011)

Firewood- Splitting, stacking and delivering

Sawmill- milling for customers and milling all the " highly valuable blackwalnut logs" from removals.

Woodworking and signs- all made out of trees from the sawmill.

Making a cabins out of spruce and pine logs cut during the summer.

Taxidermy- european type skull taxidermy.


Our winters are a little longer up here, in the beginning I was trying to find things to fill up the winter months and keep food on the table. Now I have too many irons in the fire:msp_thumbup:


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## treeman75 (Dec 5, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> This is the first year I've stockpiled wood for splitting. I've got a good bit of Locust, Cherry, and Oak piled up to be split. I don't have a splitter but if this works out OK this Winter I'll probably invest in one. You mentioned "Cord King" what are some other splitters that you can reccomend?
> 
> Like others have mentioned I start booking work for the Winter at reduced rates in some cases, and I shift any major tree reductions to this time of year when the trees go dormant. As it stands now I've got a backlog of this work that will take me into next year. Then in February I'm on an "honor roll" which is a full page ad in the Angie's List Magazine that will hopefully bring in next Season's work early. We'll see how that works, but right now I'm in much better shape for getting through the Winter months than I have ever been.



Heres one
Worlds coolest logsplitter - YouTube


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 5, 2011)

treeman75 said:


> Heres one
> Worlds coolest logsplitter - YouTube



Betcha that'll hook right up to the Steiner.


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## defensiblespace (Dec 5, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> This is the first year I've stockpiled wood for splitting. I've got a good bit of Locust, Cherry, and Oak piled up to be split. I don't have a splitter but if this works out OK this Winter I'll probably invest in one. You mentioned "Cord King" what are some other splitters that you can reccomend?



When I bought my splitter, I had some criteria that were important before I made my purchase. 
1. Must have a Honda engine. They are worth the extra coin. Much quieter and longer lasting than their competition. Start on the first pull every time.
2. A high hydraulic fluid capacity. Hydraulic fluid costs a lot of money, but a higher tank capacity will keep the fluid from overheating if you are splitting for long periods of time.
3. A fast cycle time. Higher production in a shorter amount of time.
4. An optional four way wedge. Higher production in a shorter amount of time once again.
5. Price. I want it all and I don't want to pay a lot for it.
With all of this in mind, I went with an Iron & Oak. Here is a link to the splitter.
Iron & Oak Commercial Log Splitters - PRODUCTS
I've been really happy with it so far. I've only had to replace the the master hydraulic cylinder at a cost of around $124 and that's after close to 50 cords of splitting. I bought it from a website called toolfetch.com and they even shipped it for free. I would definitely purchase it again. Great splitter for light commercial use.


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## mattfr12 (Dec 5, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> This is the first year I've stockpiled wood for splitting. I've got a good bit of Locust, Cherry, and Oak piled up to be split. I don't have a splitter but if this works out OK this Winter I'll probably invest in one. You mentioned "Cord King" what are some other splitters that you can reccomend?
> 
> Splitters like timber wolf are gonna be top of the line but for starting out a lowes or hope depot special might do the trick with a much smaller investment. A cord king can hit the wallet pretty hard I'm not 100% sure what their going for but i think you can invest 15-20 thousand in one in a hurry.


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## superjunior (Dec 6, 2011)

Huskee® 35 Ton Log Splitter - 1083946 | Tractor Supply Company

here's the one I bought about 8 years ago and still running strong. We only do about 40-50 ricks a season and this splitter is bullet proof. Not one breakdown or problem to date and it will split anything. I didn't want to invest a lot at first as I wasn't sure how the firewood end of things would go and I'm glad I picked this up. A great machine for the tree guy just getting into firewood at a low price point


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## the Aerialist (Dec 6, 2011)

*Take the splitter to the job site?*

Matt, my budget is about 10% of that. The Lowe's idea is probably where I'll go unless I can find a used one locally. I like the Husky superjunior, and I think vertical is the way to go. 

I'm thinking of taking it to the job when doing bigger tree removals just to make handling the wood easier from forwarding to loading. If the wood is ultimately going to be split anyways, why not start the process right on the job site? Is anybody doing this already? Seems like it would streamline the process. I'm not talking about splitting it right down to firewood size, but just into chunks one man can throw in the truck.


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## brookpederson (Dec 6, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Matt, my budget is about 10% of that. The Lowe's idea is probably where I'll go unless I can find a used one locally. I like the Husky superjunior, and I think vertical is the way to go.
> 
> I'm thinking of taking it to the job when doing bigger tree removals just to make handling the wood easier from forwarding to loading. If the wood is ultimately going to be split anyways, why not start the process right on the job site? Is anybody doing this already? Seems like it would streamline the process. I'm not talking about splitting it right down to firewood size, but just into chunks one man can throw in the truck.



:hmm3grin2orange: Shure, that way yur stiener could actually pick something up, and the homeowner would get good laugh out of it too.


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## tree MDS (Dec 6, 2011)

brookpederson said:


> :hmm3grin2orange: Shure, that way yur stiener could actually pick something up, and the homeowner would get good laugh out of it too.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 6, 2011)

*For the slower members:*

If the wood is ultimately going to be split anyways, why not start the process right on the job site?


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## tree MDS (Dec 6, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> If the wood is ultimately going to be split anyways, why not start the process right on the job site?



I hear you. Sounds like a solid plan.. now if only you could find a meth house that would take firewood in change, you, johnboy and cousin lee would be in heaven!! lol.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 6, 2011)

*Do not reply*



tree MDS said:


> ... now if only you could find a meth house that would take firewood in change, you, johnboy and cousin lee would be in heaven!! lol.



Do you have any basis for making a comment like that or are you just a retarded internet jackwaggon? It's posters like you that downgrade the conversation here into garbage. Regardless of your business or tree skills you are a loser who has nothing of value to add to this conversation and I'm going to ask you to leave it now. If this forum had moderation in it you would get at least a week off for an ad homonym attack on another poster.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 6, 2011)

*Har Har Har ...*



brookpederson said:


> ,,, and the homeowner would get good laugh out of it too.



I'll sell him his wood back, split and neatly stacked. It will be a new service I offer, and a new profit center for me.


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## Tree Pig (Dec 6, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> If the wood is ultimately going to be split anyways, why not start the process right on the job site?



How about this... Because you are paying your crew and if you are in the tree business the money is in doing tree work. Get the job done get the wood out and move on, repeat as many times as possible. Save the wood splitting for down time when there is no work to do.


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## tree MDS (Dec 6, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Do you have any basis for making a comment like that or are you just a retarded internet jackwaggon? It's posters like you that downgrade the conversation here into garbage. Regardless of your business or tree skills you are a loser who has nothing of value to add to this conversation and I'm going to ask you to leave it now. If this forum had moderation in it you would get at least a week off for an ad homonym attack on another poster.



What's a "homonym", is that the noise johnboy makes while servicing you, or something?


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## Tree Pig (Dec 6, 2011)

mattfr12 said:


> the Aerialist said:
> 
> 
> > This is the first year I've stockpiled wood for splitting. I've got a good bit of Locust, Cherry, and Oak piled up to be split. I don't have a splitter but if this works out OK this Winter I'll probably invest in one. You mentioned "Cord King" what are some other splitters that you can reccomend?
> ...


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## Bomber (Dec 6, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> mattfr12 said:
> 
> 
> > Husky is okay for homeonwer or tight budget. But I honestly would spend the cash on an American CLS or TimberWolfe. I have American with 8hp Honda 16 gpm pump and four way wedge. The machine has a legitimate 10 second cycle time. Between the speed and the four way it is so much fast then a POS mtd or husky splitter.
> ...


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## the Aerialist (Dec 6, 2011)

*Just another service to offer ...*



Stihl-O-Matic said:


> How about this... Because you are paying your crew and if you are in the tree business the money is in doing tree work. Get the job done get the wood out and move on, repeat as many times as possible. Save the wood splitting for down time when there is no work to do.



That is the way I have always operated, but this whole thing is a result of my crew wanting to have more work in the lean months which just happen to be the best time for messing about with firewood. In my operation, which is admittedly small time, I've often had to quarter the big rounds just to be able to manhandle them into the truck. Wouldn't it be easier and more efficient to quarter them with a splitter? I've already got the crew there, and if the wood will eventually be split for resale why not start it right on site? And I'm serious about selling it back to the homeowner, then I don't even have to haul it.


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## tree MDS (Dec 6, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> mattfr12 said:
> 
> 
> > Husky is okay for homeonwer or tight budget. But I honestly would spend the cash on an American CLS or TimberWolfe. I have American with 8hp Honda 16 gpm pump and four way wedge. The machine has a legitimate 10 second cycle time. Between the speed and the four way it is so much fast then a POS mtd or husky splitter.
> ...


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## CNBTreeTrimming (Dec 6, 2011)

Is anyone else finding that when a certain person contributes to a thread it instantly turns laughable? Isn't this area for the real tree guys? Just curious. Don't get me wrong I like to laugh, but EVERY thread...common!


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## Tree Pig (Dec 6, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> That is the way I have always operated, but this whole thing is a result of my crew wanting to have more work in the lean months which just happen to be the best time for messing about with firewood. In my operation, which is admittedly small time, I've often had to quarter the big rounds just to be able to manhandle them into the truck. Wouldn't it be easier and more efficient to quarter them with a splitter? I've already got the crew there, and if the wood will eventually be split for resale why not start it right on site? And I'm serious about selling it back to the homeowner, then I don't even have to haul it.



That entire theory makes no sense to me, for what you are going to be paying your crew for being on the job site the extra time you going to loose money, not make money. No one is going to pay you good money to buy their wood back from you. The truth be known there is not a ton of money in firewood unless you do a ton of firewood. Clean up cuts in to the profits enough as it is why make it worse by losing more money with a slow HO splitter paying your guys to run it.


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## CNBTreeTrimming (Dec 6, 2011)

If it's during winter down time why not build one. Easy to build and you can make your own specs instead of having to compromise between money and features.


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## Tree Pig (Dec 6, 2011)

CNBTreeTrimming said:


> Is anyone else finding that when a certain person contributes to a thread it instantly turns laughable? Isn't this area for the real tree guys? Just curious. Don't get me wrong I like to laugh, but EVERY thread...common!



I pointed it out a few threads ago when that certain person complained about people bashing him. Every time he makes one of his fact-less nonsensical statements its spins out of control then he points at everyone else.


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## superjunior (Dec 6, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> mattfr12 said:
> 
> 
> > Husky is okay for homeonwer or tight budget. But I honestly would spend the cash on an American CLS or TimberWolfe.
> ...


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## superjunior (Dec 6, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> That entire theory makes no sense to me, for what you are going to be paying your crew for being on the job site the extra time you going to loose money, not make money. No one is going to pay you good money to buy their wood back from you. The truth be known there is not a ton of money in firewood unless you do a ton of firewood. Clean up cuts in to the profits enough as it is why make it worse by losing more money with a slow HO splitter paying your guys to run it.



:agree2:
There's not a whole lot of profit in firewood unless your doing it in very large scale. When you consider how many times it gets handled with bringing it back to the shop, splitting, stacking ( yes - we stack to save on space and pre measure in ricks) season, load up and deliver, the wood has already been handled multiple times. And every time its worth less.

Aerialist, you would lose your tail every time if you were to attempt busting up logs on the job, trust me.. I remember way back when I had no way of moving heavy logs. We used to 2 man wood up onto a trailer with a ball cart. We'd have a tree down in a couple hours and spend the rest of the day ####in around with heavy trunk sections. A lot of slicing and dicing up big wood..What a PIA!! Your best investment would be some way of moving heavy wood, a loader, tractor with loader bucket, a little crane or whatever.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 6, 2011)

*I'm glad you asked ...*



superjunior said:


> :agree2:.. Your best investment would be some way of moving heavy wood, a loader, tractor with loader bucket, a little crane or whatever.



Well I do have this: (in case you missed it)

[video=youtube;Ngj_06h5LCI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngj_06h5LCI&feature=g-upl[/video]

That was this Summer and I still have all that Cherry wood to split. A lot of the usuals have ragged me for the Steiner but I'd like to know what skid steer could have handled that particular job, as well as many others where tearing up the turf is not an option.


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 6, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Well I do have this: (in case you missed it)
> 
> [video=youtube;Ngj_06h5LCI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngj_06h5LCI&feature=g-upl[/video]
> 
> That was this Summer and I still have all that Cherry wood to split. A lot of the usuals have ragged me for the Steiner but I'd like to know what skid steer could have handled that particular job, as well as many others where tearing up the turf is not an option.



The nicest piece of equipment in that front yard was the camera tripod .. maybe you should be a wedding photographer give your trash man back his shirt and seek another trade ...


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 6, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Matt, my budget is about 10% of that. The Lowe's idea is probably where I'll go unless I can find a used one locally. I like the Husky superjunior, and I think vertical is the way to go.
> 
> I'm thinking of taking it to the job when doing bigger tree removals just to make handling the wood easier from forwarding to loading. If the wood is ultimately going to be split anyways, why not start the process right on the job site? Is anybody doing this already? Seems like it would streamline the process. I'm not talking about splitting it right down to firewood size, but just into chunks one man can throw in the truck.



Because it makes a huge mess , I mean what were you before a cutting edge "arborist" a nail tech or maybe your qualified because you have stayed at a HOLIDAY INN recently , and I am sure your customers want that tree gone ASAP especially after buyers regret of hiring 2/3 of the 3 stooges ....


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 6, 2011)

CNBTreeTrimming said:


> Is anyone else finding that when a certain person contributes to a thread it instantly turns laughable? Isn't this area for the real tree guys? Just curious. Don't get me wrong I like to laugh, but EVERY thread...common!



Would you rather it be you ???


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## the Aerialist (Dec 6, 2011)

*YOU are the Stooge Lardo ...*



treeclimber101 said:


> ... after buyers regret of hiring 2/3 of the 3 stooges ....



I've gotten 55 reviews of my work from my Angie's List customers and they are all straight "A"s with the exception of two that gave me a "B" rating for pricing. That is out of 330 possible A through F grades on all elements of my work. Following the letter grades ALL my customers have followed up with very positive review in their own words, and they ALL have indicated that they would hire me again.

So regardless of what lardo thinks, the people that count, my customers, are very happy with the work I have done for them.


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## superjunior (Dec 6, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Well I do have this: (in case you missed it)



yeah I did miss that. Looks like a nice little machine that would come in real handy for those backyard and low impact gigs


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 6, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> I've gotten 55 reviews of my work from my Angie's List customers and they are all straight "A"s with the exception of two that gave me a "B" rating for pricing. That is out of 330 possible A through F grades on all elements of my work. Following the letter grades ALL my customers have followed up with very positive review in their own words, and they ALL have indicated that they would hire me again.
> 
> So regardless of what lardo thinks, the people that count, my customers, are very happy with the work I have done for them.



" Let your haters be your motivators"


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## Bomber (Dec 6, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Well I do have this: (in case you missed it)
> 
> Was that a chuck and duck chipper on the road. I would have edited that out of the video if your showing off your equipment. That Steiner is pretty nice I think I saw Bill Murray using one on Caddy Shack to chase gophers.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 6, 2011)

*What goes around comes around ...*



treeclimber101 said:


> " Let your haters be your motivators"



Nice quote treeclimber, and that does work for me here, and keeps me coming back when so many would like to chase me off, but in my business my motivation is to keep my phenomenal success with my customers going. On Angie's List you're only as good as your last review so now, with so many excellent reviews behind me, I am very keen on keeping that going. I work hard at making every customer a satisfied customer and so far they have been. My customers are my motivators, not the losers posting here.

What is posted here has very little to do with my success or my happiness. I'm my own man, self made, and I don't need anything from the particular group of haters here I have named the "#### clique". I rather enjoy giving out the ##### slaps to the #### clique when they jump in with their retarded comments. As long as the personal attacks continue I will ignore most but single out some for a well deserved thrashing.

Wouldn't this be a great forum if we could discuss tree work like adults?


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## oscar4883 (Dec 6, 2011)

Not for nuthin but that Steiner video was pretty cool IMO. Be nicer if it had a grapple, but pretty cool nevertheless. I would have dropped yam on step number 4 while trying to get a wheelbarrow of chunks uphill.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 6, 2011)

oscar4883 said:


> Not for nuthin but that Steiner video was pretty cool IMO. Be nicer if it had a grapple, but pretty cool nevertheless. I would have dropped yam on step number 4 while trying to get a wheelbarrow of chunks uphill.



I've gotten a lot of flack for that tractor here but it has worked out well in my business. My crew loves it and it is a blast to drive. It's like a super wheelbarrow and can go anywhere. I have a one ton cart that can pull an amazing amount of brush out of locations that would be impossible for other machines. That video was just one example. Here's another:

[video=youtube;gkdze25oxU8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkdze25oxU8[/video]


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 6, 2011)

OMG!!! 

DUDE, GET A CLUE MAN!!!!! 

self made.............please

:deadhorse:


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 6, 2011)

Thats it, I 'm getting my cousin Bobby


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## Zale (Dec 6, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Nice quote treeclimber, and that does work for me here, and keeps me coming back when so many would like to chase me off, but in my business my motivation is to keep my phenomenal success with my customers going. On Angie's List you're only as good as your last review so now, with so many excellent reviews behind me, I am very keen on keeping that going. I work hard at making every customer a satisfied customer and so far they have been. My customers are my motivators, not the losers posting here.
> 
> What is posted here has very little to do with my success or my happiness. I'm my own man, self made, and I don't need anything from the particular group of haters here I have named the "#### clique". I rather enjoy giving out the ##### slaps to the #### clique when they jump in with their retarded comments. As long as the personal attacks continue I will ignore most but single out some for a well deserved thrashing.
> 
> Wouldn't this be a great forum if we could discuss tree work like adults?



Aerial Mason- as one adult to another, all I can say is do it your way and tell us what your gross margin is at the end of the day. If all you want to do is reduce the size of the wood so as to get on your trailer, I have a tool I've been using for many years and has never let me down. I call it a "chainsaw". I hope you ignore everyone's advice and try it you way. We can only learn from our mistakes.


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 6, 2011)

Zale said:


> Aerial Mason- We can only learn from our mistakes.


OR
Aerial Mason- we can only learn from your mistakes
:hmm3grin2orange:


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## the Aerialist (Dec 7, 2011)

*We are all self made men ...*

Each of us are self made. Those of you lucky enough to have been born into a Family with Money and Values have, or most likely will, inherit some of both. But even that is not a sure thing. I know of many people who had it all at birth, born with a silver spoon as is often said, and they, feeling they had it made, never made anything of themselves. I suspect that there are many in that category posting here now. If your Father started a tree service and did all the hard start-up work, then handed it to you on a silver platter you got quite a head start compared to someone (_like your Father_) who had to put it all together on their own. This isn't a bad thing as long as you also acquired some values as well. The true measure of a man is how he treats others, especially those in a subordinate position. If you treat others like bums then you are a bum. I consider many of you losers because of this simple measure. The way the chatter goes on this site shows me that many of you are losers and bums regardless of your business or tree work skills. So flame me all you like because in doing so you are revealing your true nature. Real men are polite to others, washed up wanna-be's lash out and attack others because it makes them feel superior. You are not superior if this is your modus operendi, you are a lamer with nothing of value to add to any discussion.

I started out getting back into climbing by getting a job with a tree service here in Pittsburgh as a groundie for a year and a half. It was a Family owned business for over 60 years and the current owner (Mr. "B") was 74 years old. His Son, a 50 something drunk, was the "bucket queen" and couldn't have held a job anywhere else. Unlike many of you however he was a pretty nice guy, and never abused anyone. The hired climber (_my Mentor_) ran the show. Although it was a multi-million dollar operation it was totally old school. They didn't have a loader of any kind, not a BobCat or even a backhoe, the business relied on the backs of their laborers to load the trucks. The Old Man could have bought the best there is out of his pocket, but he didn't.

One job in particular was a huge Oak, easily 4~5' in diameter for 30 or 40' of trunk and the rounds were just too big to load by hand. The climber brought his splitter (which could lay right down horizontally on the ground) and we rolled the big rounds up on it and split them into manageable pieces. This was far faster than cutting them up across the grain with chainsaws. We were able to dolly them up a ramp into the truck. It was this experience that led me to think that a splitter might be a good addition to my gear. Especially since now, as in this thread, I am considering selling firewood as an off season business. Sure it would be great just to buy a nice grapple truck and forget about woodchucking firewood to make it through the Winter but that is not where I am at right now so I've got to figure a way to stay alive over the slow season and selling firewood might be it.


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## tree MDS (Dec 7, 2011)

A "multi million dollar" operation without a loader?? Come on old man, you fibbing just a little bit again? it's okay man, you can talk about it, we realize you have a problem.. I am putting out the virtual tissue box for you here, please share..


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## tomtrees58 (Dec 7, 2011)

i sell fire wood over 100 cords a year have had many splitters over the last 37 years i like the iron&oak fast cycle other then that winter pruning and snow with skid steers i do the local stop&shop it takes 10 hrs with 3 skid steers rest


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## Toddppm (Dec 7, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Each of us are self made. Those of you lucky enough to have been born into a Family with Money and Values have, or most likely will, inherit some of both. But even that is not a sure thing. I know of many people who had it all at birth, born with a silver spoon as is often said, and they, feeling they had it made, never made anything of themselves. I suspect that there are many in that category posting here now. If your Father started a tree service and did all the hard start-up work, then handed it to you on a silver platter you got quite a head start compared to someone (_like your Father_) who had to put it all together on their own. This isn't a bad thing as long as you also acquired some values as well. The true measure of a man is how he treats others, especially those in a subordinate position. If you treat others like bums then you are a bum. I consider many of you losers because of this simple measure. The way the chatter goes on this site shows me that many of you are losers and bums regardless of your business or tree work skills. So flame me all you like because in doing so you are revealing your true nature. Real men are polite to others, washed up wanna-be's lash out and attack others because it makes them feel superior. You are not superior if this is your modus operendi, you are a lamer with nothing of value to add to any discussion.
> 
> I started out getting back into climbing by getting a job with a tree service here in Pittsburgh as a groundie for a year and a half. It was a Family owned business for over 60 years and the current owner (Mr. "B") was 74 years old. His Son, a 50 something drunk, was the "bucket queen" and couldn't have held a job anywhere else. Unlike many of you however he was a pretty nice guy, and never abused anyone. The hired climber (_my Mentor_) ran the show. Although it was a multi-million dollar operation it was totally old school. They didn't have a loader of any kind, not a BobCat or even a backhoe, the business relied on the backs of their laborers to load the trucks. The Old Man could have bought the best there is out of his pocket, but he didn't.
> 
> One job in particular was a huge Oak, easily 4~5' in diameter for 30 or 40' of trunk and the rounds were just too big to load by hand. The climber brought his splitter (which could lay right down horizontally on the ground) and we rolled the big rounds up on it and split them into manageable pieces. This was far faster than cutting them up across the grain with chainsaws. We were able to dolly them up a ramp into the truck. It was this experience that led me to think that a splitter might be a good addition to my gear. Especially since now, as in this thread, I am considering selling firewood as an off season business. Sure it would be great just to buy a nice grapple truck and forget about woodchucking firewood to make it through the Winter but that is not where I am at right now so I've got to figure a way to stay alive over the slow season and selling firewood might be it.





This rediculous babbling bull#### only proves you aren't paying attention and think you have it all figured out. You are unteacheable and came on here claiming you were going to teach ALL of us! GTFOOH.


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 7, 2011)

Toddppm said:


> This rediculous babbling bull#### only proves you aren't paying attention and think you have it all figured out. You are unteacheable and came on here claiming you were going to teach ALL of us! GTFOOH.



can ya tell me what GTFOOH means so I can laugh .....


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## defensiblespace (Dec 7, 2011)

treeclimber101 said:


> can ya tell me what GTFOOH means so I can laugh .....



My guess would be "get the f### out of here"


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 7, 2011)

defensiblespace said:


> my guess would be "get the f### out of here"



ohhh.....


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## MarquisTree (Dec 7, 2011)

After reading all of mr. Asinine's posts about Angie's list I looked up a bunch of companies in my area...very discourageing, there are tons of companies with "A" ratings, who are barely qualified to rake leaves let alone do do tree work. One in particular has an awful reputation, been investigated several times for targeting the elderly and has had many serious accidents . If you go by Angie's list he sounds like a great choice. We used to be proud of our ratings on Angies, now it seems everyone can get "A"s on it.


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 7, 2011)

MarquisTree said:


> After reading all of mr. Asinine's posts about Angie's list I look up a bunch of companies in my area...very discourageing, there are tons of companies with "A" ratings, who are barely qualified to rake leaves let alone do do tree work. One in particular has an awful reputation, been investigated several times for targeting the elderly and has had many serious accidents . If you go by Angie's list he sounds like a great choice. We used to be proud of our ratings on Angies, now it seems everyone can get "A"s on it.



Not to mention the 10 emails that I get from them daily , basically begging me to join if its a site worth its salt then they wouldn't have to beg me, I would be begging them ....Its all a gimmick and he's a prime example ... But were also talking about his upgrade from CL to angies list


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## the Aerialist (Dec 7, 2011)

*Balderdash!*



MarquisTree said:


> ... We used to be proud of our ratings on Angies, now it seems everyone can get "A"s on it.



The only way you can get an "A" on any of the six categories where a letter grade is assigned (_there are no "A" contractors_) is if a customer gives you one. Why you would spend any time at all making things up about how Angie's List operates is beyond me. Is it that important to you to try to discredit me?


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## the Aerialist (Dec 7, 2011)

*Thank you, I try hard to be ...*



tree MDS said:


> ... Seriously though, you're really good at being annoying... I mean is that like your strong suit in life or something? I'm not kidding, I really wanna know??



Being very annoying is a skill I developed as a counter to being annoyed. I've always been a great counter puncher because I've learned to let my opponent make the first move. Liability issues can come into play, especially if hospitalization is required. I'm so cheap that if I trash you I'll make you pay for the ambulance ride.

To really know how annoying I can be you'd have to meet me face to face. I'm really a sweet old gentleman to most who meet me, you can ask those who have. Of course I'm not very tolerant of those who disrespect me, I never really have been, and I don't suffer fools lightly in real life either, but I'm gracious enough to just walk away when I can. 

This forum I have chosen not to walk away from, free speech and all that.


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## lxt (Dec 7, 2011)

AA, not to be cruel.........But you can rent a self propelled wheel barrow for jobs like that, a large one too. the rental place locally has a "muck truck" I think thats what its called, used it many times to move Versa Lok in just such tight areas as you have there, rents for a little over $150.00 for the day.

Im thinking as often as you would use one it would be better to rent? NO? its a nice unit! Hell even the toro Dingo track machine would of gotten in there! theres alot of options for stuff like that!



LXT................


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## Zale (Dec 7, 2011)

Aerial Mason- fire wood is hard dollar to make for a part-timer. The Winters in your area are not that bad. With your sales ability and sterling reputation, you should be able to sell plenty of work to keep you busy. Just because its cold doesn't mean you can't climb.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 7, 2011)

*Is my tractor a problem for you?*



lxt said:


> ... you can rent a self propelled wheel barrow for jobs like that... rents for a little over $150.00 for the day. I'm thinking as often as you would use one it would be better to rent? NO? ...



If I rented something like that once a week it would be $600 a month. I use the Steiner more than once a week, some weeks every day. Besides _I like it_, and it's fun to drive. I bought an airplane once because I liked it. It didn't make me_ any _money and it cost me more than $600 a month to keep it hangered and maintained. It was fun to drive too. What's the problem here?


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## Mikemehak (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm new. But I can't hope to notice that every thread turns into aerialist attention city. If everyone hates him so much, why all the attention? 

This thread was about off season business and is now about what kind of tractor some guy has. Who cares if he says his company is worth 10 billion and he rides to work on a unicorn that ####s rainbows. 

If you don't like the guy, want him to leave, ignore the guy. You can't run around saying you hate drama- you're just perpetuating drama. 


I'm new to the arborist deal, but have done quite well in other endevours. I didn't do well giving a #### about what others claimed they could do, or spent their money on. In fact, if they did ridiculous things I was just thankful and moved on. I certainly do not try to convince them other wise - that's not only a waste of time but bad business. 

Sorry to vent, but I can't imagine I'm the only one here to learn without sifting through 3 pages of bickering about some guys Steiner. (btw. Had one for snow removal and the thing was a beast and had some cool implements, way cheaper than a trackless)


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## the Aerialist (Dec 7, 2011)

*Aerial Mason ~ I like it, maybe I'll join the Masonic Lodge ...*



Zale said:


> Aerial Mason- fire wood is hard dollar to make for a part-timer. The Winters in your area are not that bad. With your sales ability and sterling reputation, you should be able to sell plenty of work to keep you busy. Just because its cold doesn't mean you can't climb.



You know you may be right. I'm booked up right now with work that will take me through January and I just got two more inquiries today. I'm going to be in a full page color ad, the "Honor Roll" of top rated contractors, in the February A-List print magazine that goes out to 30,000 Pittsburgh members in February. Then there's always the chance of a damaging Winter storm to pump the business. With any luck that will come in the first week of February, just as my print ad hits. I shouldn't worry about this, but I've got tons of Locust, Cherry and Oak, all big rounds that I need to get rid of and men who want to split it for me. What would you suggest?


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## Zale (Dec 7, 2011)

If you have people who want to split it, let them have it. Take a small percentage and get rid of it.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 7, 2011)

*Welcome to Tree Wars!*



Mikemehak said:


> I'm new. But I can't hope to notice that every thread turns into aerialist attention city. If everyone hates him so much, why all the attention? ... If you don't like the guy, want him to leave, ignore the guy. You can't run around saying you hate drama- you're just perpetuating drama... Sorry to vent, but I can't imagine I'm the only one here to learn without sifting through 3 pages of bickering about some guys Steiner. (btw. Had one for snow removal and the thing was a beast and had some cool implements, way cheaper than a trackless)



I've requested that people here put me on "ignore" if they don't like my posts. I don't even like my posts (when responding to the d i c k clique) but I refuse to be squelched by the lamers that inhabit this forum. I try to ignore them myself and most times do but I do on occasion pick one out to abuse in a like fashion. If this forum had a moderator the people that post such rubbish would get banned, but alas we must deal with them ourselves. If more posters like you complained about it maybe the d i c k clique would change their ways, but I doubt it. It will take someone with the power to hand out vacations to offenders before this forum will ever be cleaned up.

You ought to check out "Treepedo" he is up near Toronto and an excellent Arborist and tree man. He doesn't post much, I'm sure because of the same complaints you have about the trash talking that pollutes these threads. I should probably just get a snow blower for my Steiner and forget about splitting wood.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 7, 2011)

*Small percentage?*



Zale said:


> If you have people who want to split it, let them have it. Take a small percentage and get rid of it.



Well my percentage is half, but I have to use my equipment to deliver it, and I'm the guy with all the wood.


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## Mikemehak (Dec 7, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> It's okay if you are a gay too, there are more and more of them "coming out" of the closet these days!
> 
> And if you are having a problem digesting our #### talking, maybe you should stick to the sheep.. and you are going to have to be a lot tougher to make it in the trees! just saying, man!



I don't have a problem digesting it. It just seems like a waste arguing on the Internet. It also makes it hard to find useful information on the board. Your use of the word gay amuses me. It's a good indicative of your intellect and language skills. 

Anyways. I'm done in this thread. Was just a comment in passing. I'll come back to this thread if it sways back to being relevant to my life.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 7, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> ... and you are going to have to be a lot tougher to make it in the trees! just saying, man!



Oh I'm tough enough to make it in trees, it's how I got here.


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 8, 2011)

My cousin is a logger, he lives here in the QC but out in the boonies, south of the area, he does a insane amount of firewood, has a old dude with a speedco 25 ton like mine, old dude does nothing but split everyday, all day. His pile of wood is huge. He works from Nov to March, delivering wood. Has a client list a mile long. So.......I think if you get a little system figured out, you can do well. Keeping all old clients, adding new every year. He has to do real good, built a new home 2 years ago, and just bought a New F-350 diesel. He is hillbilly tho, real hillbilly! I turned him on too this site. Should be interesting, don't bash him to much, no real education, but he can "get er dun" He quit school in the 8th grade to work a farm after his dad had a stroke, never went back, never needed to. Farm has a bout 1000 acres, 300 acres are woods, he pulls out some real nice timber that he sales to specific buyers for custom woodworking. Also, were he gets his firewood at. I only go down there once a year to pic up some deer sausage, always bring him my broken saws and such, wizard with mechanics. The other thing he does in the winter , that I thought about, he sells wood stoves. He gets them from all over, free or real cheap. Then restores them and will even install them. He will not run the chimney, "ya gots to get yur guy own fur that" He was giving a stove that he restored and resold for 3g's. It was real old and you could use it to cook a full meal, even had a spot off to the side to warm gloves and such, it was really cool, about 100 years old. He don't sell a ton of them but said that he pays for Christmas every year, and he has 5 kids! Don't think he buys them shoes tho! I have never seen them shoes or shirts on, like wild little hillbillys running around in the wood! Every time I go there I hear the dueling banjo's going in my head, I love him tho, he is great to get ya grounded, has this uncanny way of putting serous situations into perspective. "well its better than being hit in the head with a rock"


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## brookpederson (Dec 8, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> My cousin is a logger, he lives here in the QC but out in the boonies, south of the area, he does a insane amount of firewood, has a old dude with a speedco 25 ton like mine, old dude does nothing but split everyday, all day. His pile of wood is huge. He works from Nov to March, delivering wood. Has a client list a mile long. So.......I think if you get a little system figured out, you can do well. Keeping all old clients, adding new every year. He has to do real good, built a new home 2 years ago, and just bought a New F-350 diesel. He is hillbilly tho, real hillbilly! I turned him on too this site. Should be interesting, don't bash him to much, no real education, but he can "get er dun" He quit school in the 8th grade to work a farm after his dad had a stroke, never went back, never needed to. Farm has a bout 1000 acres, 300 acres are woods, he pulls out some real nice timber that he sales to specific buyers for custom woodworking. Also, were he gets his firewood at. I only go down there once a year to pic up some deer sausage, always bring him my broken saws and such, wizard with mechanics. The other thing he does in the winter , that I thought about, he sells wood stoves. He gets them from all over, free or real cheap. Then restores them and will even install them. He will not run the chimney, "ya gots to get yur guy own fur that" He was giving a stove that he restored and resold for 3g's. It was real old and you could use it to cook a full meal, even had a spot off to the side to warm gloves and such, it was really cool, about 100 years old. He don't sell a ton of them but said that he pays for Christmas every year, and he has 5 kids! Don't think he buys them shoes tho! I have never seen them shoes or shirts on, like wild little hillbillys running around in the wood! Every time I go there I hear the dueling banjo's going in my head, I love him tho, he is great to get ya grounded, has this uncanny way of putting serous situations into perspective. "well its better than being hit in the head with a rock"



What kind of logging does he do? It's funny my cousin who lives in the QC , we have some timbered land together on the skunk river. Awesome deer hunting, but we have been thinking about having some logging done. I wish I could haul it all back up to my lot, but that's a pipe dream w/ a 9 hr drive  for me.


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## lxt (Dec 8, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> If I rented something like that once a week it would be $600 a month. I use the Steiner more than once a week, some weeks every day. Besides _I like it_, and it's fun to drive. I bought an airplane once because I liked it. It didn't make me_ any _money and it cost me more than $600 a month to keep it hangered and maintained. It was fun to drive too. What's the problem here?




Actually you could buy it for under 3 grand!! which would calculate to a 17 thousand dollar savings (plus) & then buy a new chipper! there is no problem with what you are doing, you asked what other machine could do what yours did & you got an answer!!

Having something that is fun is one thing......But in business you need something practical, Profitable & ability to show a return! Im just saying if you wanna have fun buy a quad............ Ive rented that Muck Truck & its a pretty awesome machine, will do alot of things.......other than cut grass! AA, you could of bought the Muck Truck, a SC252 (used) & a good used chipper for what that beefed up toro cost ya............Then you would have something!!

But hey if the steiner works.......Good for you! But I think there were much wiser options you had to spend over 20 G`s on!!!

Have you ever did the break down on what the Steiner costs you at each job, i.e. monthly payments, re-coup costs, maint, loading & extra travel time, etc... or do you just view it as fun? & have no idea about the cost breakdown? seriously?


LXT...............


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## lxt (Dec 8, 2011)

Welp heading out..... I have been dabbling with a transition type of Biz & it seems to have picked up @ this time of year, I found that re-graveling drives & spreading the gravel (tailgate/Doze) can be a pretty profitable little sideline in these wet months.

I still have some hit & miss tree work but its slowing down some........however, I am surpirsed how many people want/need their driveways repaired. 



LXT..........


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## Tree Pig (Dec 8, 2011)

Mikemehak said:


> I'm new. But I can't hope to notice that every thread turns into aerialist attention city. If everyone hates him so much, why all the attention?
> 
> This thread was about off season business and is now about what kind of tractor some guy has. Who cares if he says his company is worth 10 billion and he rides to work on a unicorn that ####s rainbows.
> 
> ...



The reason is he is a big bull####ter and when he opens his mouth and gives advice he is usually wrong. What he sometimes says is so wrong that he needs to be corrected or at least the people getting his advice need to be given better info.
Heres just a few... Feel free to add to the list of things I am missing.

*
Spiking Trims (enough said)
Ice Axe in a Tree (really!)
Cementing a cavity (Fred Flenstone Tree Service)
Steiner for a loader/material handler (mini skid maybe?)
Splitting during a takedown and selling back to HO (ROFL)
ETC. ETC. ETC.
*


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## MarquisTree (Dec 8, 2011)

Asinine said:


> The only way you can get an "A" on any of the six categories where a letter grade is assigned (_there are no "A" contractors_) is if a customer gives you one. Why you would spend any time at all making things up about how Angie's List operates is beyond me. Is it that important to you to try to discredit me?



What did I make up? I shared my opinion of Angies. In my area there are several companies on the list who according to their reviews look like great but have awful reputations


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## lxt (Dec 8, 2011)

MarquisTree said:


> What did I make up? I shared my opinion of Angies. In my area there are several companies on the list who according to their reviews look like great but have awful reputations



MT.......he still thinks that Angies list is full proof & all "A" rating contractors are the best, He doesnt get that Any one can be on the A list............Its like the BBB, I know a certain company that has an A rating but when you look up his complaint record there are several............Now how can that be, some are unresolved!!! Its cause that contractor is a paying member....!

I get emails just about every day asking me to join A List, 40% discount even.............IDK...?



LXT..........


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## defensiblespace (Dec 8, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> The reason is he is a big bull####ter and when he opens his mouth and gives advice he is usually wrong. What he sometimes says is so wrong that he needs to be corrected or at least the people getting his advice need to be given better info.
> Heres just a few... Feel free to add to the list of things I am missing.
> 
> *
> ...



I've been trying to stay out of this, but what the heck, I'm gonna put my 2 cents in. I don't know the Aerialist and I don't know you guys for that matter either, but I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'll give the Aerialist credit for thinking outside of the box. It sounds from one of his posts that he learned from an old school tree guy, which is probably where he gets some of his ideas from. It blows me away how many people are still spiking during a prune job and topping trees. I still see a lot of companies advertising topping on their websites. These where common practices back in the day. Thanks to research from people like Dr Shigo, we now know that these practices and many others like sealing wounds and filling cavities with cement are wrong. Hopefully the people still doing these practices are not too thick headed to be educated with up to date arboriculture practices. Possibly the worst thing about people still doing this kind of work is the fact that they are telling the home owners that this is ok. The home owners are then misinformed and it makes it more difficult to re-educate these people. The fact that the contractors that are doing it right have to bid against people doing these practices is our biggest challenge. My suggestion for these old school tree guys who have not updated their practices is to pick up a copy of the ISA arborist study guide and read through it. This will give you a good foundation for which to go by for the present standards. 
As for the tractor and log splitter idea, if your company is as profitable as you say it is, then I would suggest either a mini loader or an ASV 30 with turf tracks. I used to use an ATV to haul a lot of my slash before I bought a mini. With a tractor or ATV, you still need to handle the material many more times and with more guys than you would if you just had a mini. There would also be no need to split the wood into smaller pieces because the mini would be able to pick up the larger rounds. 
I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but the more I learn, the more I realize I still have a lot to learn. Education combined with knowing how to properly apply what you learn is a good building block to success.


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## Toddppm (Dec 8, 2011)

See there's where you and this donkey differ. 

You realize there's alot left to learn and you're willing to take the time to do so. 

This mentioned donkey comes on here telling us he's a great tree man that was a lead climber for 4 other companies, has 40 years experience can climb like a monkey and owns a very successful premier business in Pittsburgh called Aerial Arborist . 
Come to find out, he's counting getting a kite out of a tree 38 years ago, probably got fired from the other comapnies cause he sucks, hasn't left the comfort of the tree trunk or climbed without spikes. He's so successful he bought a $20,000 wheelbarrow but when his truck broke down it almost put him out of business and now the chipper, uh oh. Talks like he can give anybody advice on climbing techniques but can barely get up a tree and has been working soley off of luck so far.

We just want to make sure everybody takes his advice with a grain or a gallon of salt.


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## Tree Pig (Dec 8, 2011)

defensiblespace said:


> I've been trying to stay out of this, but what the heck, I'm gonna put my 2 cents in. I don't know the Aerialist and I don't know you guys for that matter either, but I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'll give the Aerialist credit for thinking outside of the box. It sounds from one of his posts that he learned from an old school tree guy, which is probably where he gets some of his ideas from. It blows me away how many people are still spiking during a prune job and topping trees. I still see a lot of companies advertising topping on their websites. These where common practices back in the day. Thanks to research from people like Dr Shigo, we now know that these practices and many others like sealing wounds and filling cavities with cement are wrong. Hopefully the people still doing these practices are not too thick headed to be educated with up to date arboriculture practices. Possibly the worst thing about people still doing this kind of work is the fact that they are telling the home owners that this is ok. The home owners are then misinformed and it makes it more difficult to re-educate these people. The fact that the contractors that are doing it right have to bid against people doing these practices is our biggest challenge. My suggestion for these old school tree guys who have not updated their practices is to pick up a copy of the ISA arborist study guide and read through it. This will give you a good foundation for which to go by for the present standards.
> As for the tractor and log splitter idea, if your company is as profitable as you say it is, then I would suggest either a mini loader or an ASV 30 with turf tracks. I used to use an ATV to haul a lot of my slash before I bought a mini. With a tractor or ATV, you still need to handle the material many more times and with more guys than you would if you just had a mini. There would also be no need to split the wood into smaller pieces because the mini would be able to pick up the larger rounds.
> I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but the more I learn, the more I realize I still have a lot to learn. Education combined with knowing how to properly apply what you learn is a good building block to success.




so if I am reading this right your saying "hey Airiest educate yourself get with the times because your wrong"


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## defensiblespace (Dec 8, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> so if I am reading this right your saying "hey Airiest educate yourself get with the times because your wrong"



I've been unaware of the long term history with said member, but yes, in a diplomatic way I am saying he needs to get a clue. Looks like I just dragged myself into this. I think its for a good cause though as these practices need to be eradicated from our field.


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## treemandan (Dec 8, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Stihl-O-Matic said:
> 
> 
> > I was checking out the Super Split machines, those things look pretty cool.. a little dangerous perhaps, but we're only talking about johnboy and cousin lee here, so no biggie.
> ...


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## treemandan (Dec 8, 2011)

defensiblespace said:


> I've been trying to stay out of this, but what the heck, I'm gonna put my 2 cents in. I don't know the Aerialist and I don't know you guys for that matter either, but I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'll give the Aerialist credit for thinking outside of the box. It sounds from one of his posts that he learned from an old school tree guy, which is probably where he gets some of his ideas from. It blows me away how many people are still spiking during a prune job and topping trees. I still see a lot of companies advertising topping on their websites. These where common practices back in the day. Thanks to research from people like Dr Shigo, we now know that these practices and many others like sealing wounds and filling cavities with cement are wrong. Hopefully the people still doing these practices are not too thick headed to be educated with up to date arboriculture practices. Possibly the worst thing about people still doing this kind of work is the fact that they are telling the home owners that this is ok. The home owners are then misinformed and it makes it more difficult to re-educate these people. The fact that the contractors that are doing it right have to bid against people doing these practices is our biggest challenge. My suggestion for these old school tree guys who have not updated their practices is to pick up a copy of the ISA arborist study guide and read through it. This will give you a good foundation for which to go by for the present standards.
> As for the tractor and log splitter idea, if your company is as profitable as you say it is, then I would suggest either a mini loader or an ASV 30 with turf tracks. I used to use an ATV to haul a lot of my slash before I bought a mini. With a tractor or ATV, you still need to handle the material many more times and with more guys than you would if you just had a mini. There would also be no need to split the wood into smaller pieces because the mini would be able to pick up the larger rounds.
> I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but the more I learn, the more I realize I still have a lot to learn. Education combined with knowing how to properly apply what you learn is a good building block to success.



Well he is a nice guy.


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## treemandan (Dec 8, 2011)

lxt said:


> MT.......he still thinks that Angies list is full proof & all "A" rating contractors are the best, He doesnt get that Any one can be on the A list............Its like the BBB, I know a certain company that has an A rating but when you look up his complaint record there are several............Now how can that be, some are unresolved!!! Its cause that contractor is a paying member....!
> 
> I get emails just about every day asking me to join A List, 40% discount even.............IDK...?
> 
> ...



Angies List!? Angies List!!!??? ANGIES LIST !!!! ??? Who the Hell is Angie anyway.


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## treemandan (Dec 8, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> That is the way I have always operated, but this whole thing is a result of my crew wanting to have more work in the lean months which just happen to be the best time for messing about with firewood. In my operation, which is admittedly small time, I've often had to quarter the big rounds just to be able to manhandle them into the truck. Wouldn't it be easier and more efficient to quarter them with a splitter? I've already got the crew there, and if the wood will eventually be split for resale why not start it right on site? And I'm serious about selling it back to the homeowner, then I don't even have to haul it.



Pork what!!??


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## treemandan (Dec 8, 2011)

I, myself, have gotten calls about people wanting me to TD and split it. This is just to much for my little mind. 

Really, if a client wants me to do something like that or mentions they will rent a splitter I lend them mine. Trust me, I know the ramifications of doing that and its worth it. 


What did that idiot say? Split rounds to load!? Split rounds to load!!?? SPLIT ROUNDS TO LOAD!!! ???


THE N IS NEAR.


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## superjunior (Dec 8, 2011)

treemandan said:


> I, myself, have gotten calls about people wanting me to TD and split it.



I get this every now and then. I tell em flat out - look if you really want it done I'll send a couple guys back here on the weekend and its THIS$ per hour for 2 guys and the splitter. Some people go for it and some figure out that its just cheaper to have us deliver them seasoned wood..


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 9, 2011)

brookpederson said:


> What kind of logging does he do? It's funny my cousin who lives in the QC , we have some timbered land together on the skunk river. Awesome deer hunting, but we have been thinking about having some logging done. I wish I could haul it all back up to my lot, but that's a pipe dream w/ a 9 hr drive  for me.



Not sure the Q Brook, He has buyers call him and ask for this or that type of wood and how many board feet, He jumps on his quad, goes and finds one, then they come, look at it, yes or no, then he lays it over and grabs his BIG MONSTER tractor and drags the whole thing out. He has some real nice stuff out down there. Big monster hickory's and a lot of cherry, walnut and oak. All the cut offs are turned into firewood. He don't have any real logging equipment, all farm stuff, but it does the job. He uses one of those great big tractors that have 8 wheels on it, 2 on each corner. I seen that thing drag a bulldozer that was broke down. Its all pretty old stuff, but he maintains it all like a new born baby! He has a combine that's like 50 years old. Still runs like its new. The buyers are usally furniture makers and builders looking for good trim material for mantels and such.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 9, 2011)

*OMG ~ an on topic post ...*



lxt said:


> ... I have been dabbling with a transition type of Biz & it seems to have picked up @ this time of year, I found that re-graveling drives & spreading the gravel (tailgate/Doze) can be a pretty profitable little sideline in these wet months... I still have some hit & miss tree work but its slowing down some........however, I am surpirsed how many people want/need their driveways repaired...



Now this is a good tip lxt. My neighbor put in a gravel driveway and I helped him by spreading out the gravel with my Steiner after the truck delivered it. Regardless of what you may think about the tractor for tree work, it's ideal for moving and spreading gravel.


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## Tree Pig (Dec 9, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Regardless of what you may think about the tractor for tree work, it's ideal for moving and spreading gravel.



To get back off topic... I found the answer for you. Keep your customers happy split on the job site during OP and still make money.

[video=youtube;UulrxwMrKPU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UulrxwMrKPU[/video]


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## defensiblespace (Dec 9, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> To get back off topic... I found the answer for you. Keep your customers happy split on the job site during OP and still make money.
> 
> [video=youtube;UulrxwMrKPU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UulrxwMrKPU[/video]


What the......? A chuck and duck splitter. Who knew?


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## MarquisTree (Dec 9, 2011)

the Asinine said:


> Regardless of what you may think about the tractor for tree work, it's ideal for moving and spreading gravel.



Ideal? How is a grain scoop with a capacity of 800lbs ideal for gravel work or any other earth work for that matter? That's a statement that might fly in a homeowner forum. 
I am still wondering what u think I made up about Angies .. keep in mind that we are on the list and have a very good set of reports


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 9, 2011)

MarquisTree said:


> Ideal? How is a grain scoop with a capacity of 800lbs ideal for gravel work or any other earth work for that matter? That's a statement that might fly in a homeowner forum.
> I am still wondering what u think I made up about Angies .. keep in mind that we are on the list and have a very good set of reports



You'd be better off going and talking to the tires on your truck , they may have a better understanding of tree work ....


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 9, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> To get back off topic... I found the answer for you. Keep your customers happy split on the job site during OP and still make money.
> 
> [video=youtube;UulrxwMrKPU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UulrxwMrKPU[/video]



I kinda feel bad for the poor soul who needs to stack it on the other side , that thing looks down right scarey ...


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## tree md (Dec 9, 2011)

I have a condo complex account that is a lifesaver during the Winter months. Plus I schedule prunes to do through the Winter. I like to do my Oak prunes in the Winter to avoid risk of Oak Wilt.


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## superjunior (Dec 9, 2011)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> To get back off topic... I found the answer for you. Keep your customers happy split on the job site during OP and still make money.
> 
> [video=youtube;UulrxwMrKPU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UulrxwMrKPU[/video]



awesome - I want one


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 9, 2011)

superjunior said:


> awesome - I want one



Me too! That thing IS scary! Looks fun tho!


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## superjunior (Dec 9, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Me too! That thing IS scary! Looks fun tho!



yeah but like t101 said, who would want to be on the other end of that thing? :msp_ohmy:


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 10, 2011)

Get set up like a base ball catcher! Or you could stand behind it with a ninja sword or a bat. 

Better yet, you could pull up the stiener and shoot them into the bucket, bet it would revolutionize the fire wood industry. 

HEY THERE YA GO AA, hook that thing up to the steiner, then you could be a one stop shop. Remove DANGEROUS TREE, cut it into rounds, qtr them with a tarditional (spelling is correct) splitter, then run them into that thing, load them with the stiener, move them 10ft, then fix the drive by backdraggin the new gravel and I bet you could have your camera man catch the whole op on film for us. I bet you could put in a place that no one else can go, beings its 8 wheel drive and all. How many yards can that bucket hold anyway, 4-5? I bet the firewood trailer would be able to fit in there somewhere, maybe John Boy could pull it and Lee could push


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## Tree Pig (Dec 10, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Get set up like a base ball catcher! Or you could stand behind it with a ninja sword or a bat.
> 
> Better yet, you could pull up the stiener and shoot them into the bucket, bet it would revolutionize the fire wood industry.
> 
> HEY THERE YA GO AA, hook that thing up to the steiner, then you could be a one stop shop. Remove DANGEROUS TREE, cut it into rounds, qtr them with a tarditional (spelling is correct) splitter, then run them into that thing, load them with the stiener, move them 10ft, then fix the drive by backdraggin the new gravel and I bet you could have your camera man catch the whole op on film for us. I bet you could put in a place that no one else can go, beings its 8 wheel drive and all. How many yards can that bucket hold anyway, 4-5? I bet the firewood trailer would be able to fit in there somewhere, maybe John Boy could pull it and Lee could push



Perfect the only thing I would add, he could build one of them shoots contractors use to send debris into a dumpster. Make all of your cuts to firewood length and just send them down the shoot, through the chuck n duck splitter and right in to the Steiner slip scoop.


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## Mikemehak (Dec 10, 2011)

I'm pretty sure this splitter is faster and more dangerous

[video=youtube_share;vmtMv7Cz0HA]http://youtu.be/vmtMv7Cz0HA[/video]

Widow Maker wood splitter - YouTube


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 10, 2011)

Mikemehak said:


> I'm pretty sure this splitter is faster and more dangerous
> 
> [video=youtube_share;vmtMv7Cz0HA]http://youtu.be/vmtMv7Cz0HA[/video]
> 
> Widow Maker wood splitter - YouTube



That is nucking futs. That looks like something you would see from the turn of the century. I wonder how much blood that thing has spilled. Probably oiled with it!


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 11, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> That is nucking futs. That looks like something you would see from the turn of the century. I wonder how much blood that thing has spilled. Probably oiled with it!



Its funny too that they will design complete safe running equipment mundane and tranquil , then you see a youtube video of a farmer taking the basic idea of something , going in there barns and revealing a new version that moves at 10xs faster and can kill ... I mean talk about having too much time on your hands ...


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