# A reality check for a wannabe CS miller please.



## KiwiBro (Jun 19, 2012)

What will it cost a novice (to milling, not to chainsaws) to get set-up to mill his first log please and what sort of mill and accessories should I be considering? Also, how much wood and time am I likely to devour before I'm likely to be producing slabs someone is willing to pay for?

Logs I've got lined up are about 40" wide and many are just shy of 20' long, but there hopefully will be wider ones in the future and perhaps not so long. I have no saw but am eyeing up a 100cc powerhead. I have no bar.

What I'm hoping to do is work out whether this first lot of logs could come close to at least paying for the gear needed (excluding the powerhead) so my payback period is reasonably short, and I'd have my time only invested as a way to pay the milling gear off.

Can anyone help take this novice through the in's and outs and what I need and what it will cost please?

If I were to take a stab at what I need:
Alaskan MK-III C2 Mill 48" kit (but does it really have to be .404" pitch chain?)
Rail extensions
A few loops or a roll of what chain?
'bout time I bought a grinder anyway
what sorts of spares would be useful to have on hand?


Have I missed anything?
What sort of bars do those kits come with and are there better alternatives (I'm a Tsumura devotee but CSM is a different ball game)?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## BobL (Jun 19, 2012)

Cost recovery with CS milling is highly problematic - if this is your main driver for milling I'd suggest getting a bandsaw or swing mill. While the initial cost is higher, the payback time will be quicker and far less effort

Have you got a firm buyer for the timber or are you just hoping to be able to sell it once it is milled. If so, unless it is a very exotic log be prepared for butter (NZ spelling  ) disappointment.

On a more general perspective I would not recommend starting to learn with 40" diam log, 20" would be much better


----------



## StephenA (Jun 19, 2012)

I think you are going to have a tough road ahead if you choose a CS mill. 
Just to give a perspective, I've been CS milling for 2 years now, just for my own cabin. CS milling is not a fast option. nowhere close to fast. I've just upgraded to a Sthil MS660 so I don't work one of the smaller saws to death. That has made a huge difference in time. 
It excels at hard to reach lumber, where you can't bring a mill to it, or you don't have the equipment to move it. It works great to weird shaped trees. I have a lot of forked top trees (They make interesting chairs) that I've milled that a hobby sized band-saw would never handle.
I don't think I could ever make money back from this investment if I was doing it for profit. I spend to much time fiddling with the system to make it work profitably. Then again, I'm not trying to. 
But (there is always a but...) a CS mill would be handy for cutting those logs in half so you could load them onto a sawmill. 

There are others on the board that know Sawmills, so I will let them comment on that topic. I'm just an Expert (ex is a 'has been' and a spurt is a drip under pressure) on CS milling. As I posted on another thread, get the book 'Chainsaw Lumber Making' by Will Malloff. I have a softcopy that I downloaded from Scribd

Maybe someone here has experience on the Ripsaw CS band-saw mill? I've only seen pictures. I think its called a Ripsaw. please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Doss (Jun 19, 2012)

I have some experience with exactly what you're thinking about. I have a 66" bar on an MS880 cutting 30-50" wide by 8-16' long logs. Here are some thoughts:

1. Chainsaw mills on logs of this size are slow. How slow? It can take me 30 minutes plus to make one pass.
2. The lumber you're going to make is going to need some work unless your buyer doesn't mind rough cuts.
3. You're going to need a lot of time (remember when I said it was slow?).
4. You're going to waste a lot of wood. If you're trying to get maximum yield, chainsaw mills are not the way to go.
5. I hope you're strong and reasonably fit. Big logs take a good bit of muscle to work on. The slabs are heavy if you're cutting 2-4" thick and just passing the saw through the cut can be a workout sometimes.
6. You're going to get covered in saw dust. Lots of saw dust (read #4 again).
7. You're going to get to a time very quickly (if you have a lot of logs to cut) that you're going to be mad at yourself for not buying a large bandsaw mill or paying someone else to cut it. Don't get me wrong. I like cutting wood. But it sure is a hassle when all I really want to do is build furniture.

What you're going to need:

1. A big saw: MS660 or MS880 if you're going with a Stihl.
2. An Alaskan mill kit (mill, bar, chain)
3. Time
4. Something straight and level like a ladder or 2 2x6's built like a ladder (to pass the mill on for the first cut).
5. Lots of chain oil. I have about 4 or 5 gallons of it with me normally... but that's for several hours of cutting and I usually have a LOT left over.
6. Lots of fuel. I can burn about 4 to 5 gallons of this on a long day.
7. Extra chain. Plan on having at least 1 chain for every hour or so you plan on cutting. If you plan on doing this, it might be better to buy a 100' reel and a breaker/press).
8. Chain files. Learn to use them effectively.
9. Pry bars, hammers, and other things for moving/working on slabs and logs.
10. Tow Chain/straps and a truck... just in case.
11. Ratchet set
12. Good ear and eye protection. Just the sound can wear you out .
13. Good gloves (hopefully something will reduce the vibration of the saw).
14. Time
15. Lots of fluids to consume
16. Wedges... lots and lots of wedges
17. A quality dust mask. Something like a 3M 7000-series. You don't want to breathe in that dust.
18. A portable work table for changing your bar, chain, etc.
19. A spare air filter, chain tensioner (don't ask me how I figured this out), and bar.
20. A small secondary chainsaw. That comes in handy like you wouldn't believe.
21. Time
22. Extra hands (friends... not literally extra hands). Spare arms would be awesome though... like Dr. Octopus... focus Doss... you're getting off topic
23. A spare saw if possible
24. A good 2' or longer level. I trust my Stabilas.
25. Tape measure
26. Broom and/or blower to clean the work area. Lots of dust and chips accumulate.
27. Zip ties in all lengths
28. Tubing for your auxiliary oiler. You will damage the factory one eventually.
29. Duct and electrical tape. You will use it... trust me.
30. Nails, screws, various hardware.... you never know when you'll need it.


That's probably not everything, but it gives you an idea. If you plan on actually offering more finished lumber, get ready to incur even more expenses. Planers, jointers, large vertical bandsaws, etc. are not cheap.


----------



## StephenA (Jun 19, 2012)

Doss,
That was well said. thank you.


----------



## Doss (Jun 19, 2012)

No problem *Stephen*. Thanks for the recognition.

Some other things to think about. I don't know if that 48" kit will be enough. Remember that the 48" kit only cuts about 46" (if you're lucky). The powerheads to run these big bars are expensive. Keep that in mind. This is not some $1000 investment. Realistically, if you're starting with nothing, minimum you should expect to spend is probably about $2200 on start up. That's not counting extra powerheads, saws, etc.

Also, I forgot a few items that I know I use all the time (and is probably why I forgot them). I edited my list above.


----------



## KiwiBro (Jun 19, 2012)

Thank you for the reality check.

Just what the Dr ordered.


----------



## Doss (Jun 19, 2012)

KiwiBro said:


> Thank you for the reality check.
> 
> Just what the Dr ordered.



That's what we're here for. I'll tell you this right now, had I known all this going in, I would've bought a small DIY bandsaw mill (like a 36") instead. I wanted to use all of the slab so I went with a chainsaw mill.

I probably have more money tied up in chainsaws and associated stuff than that bandsaw mill would've cost.

There are reasons to get a chainsaw mill though. 

1. You're not cutting much wood. If this involves more than 10 large logs, start evaluating other options even if they seem more expensive.
2. You're not cutting wide wood. Once you pass 24-30" wide, the bandsaw mill options get expensive. You really need to figure out if you're going to use wood this wide or wider though. Don't think it's easy to turn a slab into a table though. Drying wood will drive you crazy.
3. Portability... especially to sites that are, for the most part, inaccessible to automobiles.
4. You have a lot of time.
5. You want the lowest cost set up for small projects. If all you want to do is cut up 3 or 4 20" trees, get a chainsaw mill. If you want to cut up 10-20+ 20" trees, get a bandsaw mill or call a sawyer.


Hope that helps. It was not meant to discourage you, just shine a light on things you might not know or see coming into this. It's that low cost of entry that tricks most of us.

Also, moving logs is no fun at all if you don't have heavy equipment or at least a really strong truck. I drag a lot of logs with my F250 diesel and it's still not easy.


----------



## BobL (Jun 19, 2012)

If you want to save money and you or a friend can weld you can very quickly weld up a basic mill and set of rails for much less than the retail cost of a CS mill. This way you can at least try it out. My first CS mill cost me the price of a few welding rods, about $10 worth of scrap metal SHS and about $5 worth of tensile nuts and bolts. If you don't have welding access you can also make it out of wood.


----------



## KiwiBro (Jun 20, 2012)

Whilst I don't like seeing good wood not being used, I may have to forget about it until I can afford a portable sawmill, although I'll keep an eye out for any local used deals.


----------



## Doss (Jun 20, 2012)

If you have a small saw already, you can still use the wood for something. Even cutting it roughly it in half (diameter) or into more manageable sizes like 6, 8, and 10 feet and storing them somewhere (out of the sun, off the ground, and under cover). Sure, the wood will be harder to cut, but at least it won't go to waste.


----------



## boatman (Jun 20, 2012)

As stated above, chainsaw milling is slow and cumbersome. But, it all fit's in the back of my Saturn. I then drive 5 hours North to where a friend is building a cabin, transfer the milling stuff to his truck, and we drive 3 miles up a unimproved two track, across a home made bridge and up a steep hill using stumps for traction. That's where we are building his cabin. We just have a winch to move the logs so it is real nice to mill them in place.

Some times I drive an hour away to a friends 400 acres where he has a big old Cherry tree in the way. Or a local tree service has a nasty old yard walnut that nobody wants.

I find set up to take up most of my time, cutting seems fast in comparison. Sharpening is a nice break. I just don't measure progress in board feet. I prefer to end the day having finished all the joists, or have a nice stack of 2x4 for the new milk room.


----------



## StephenA (Jun 20, 2012)

Boatman, Those reasons you listed are why I bought my CS mill. Its not to make money. 

The CS mill really takes Doss' points 3, 14, and 21 to really make it work. Exactly what you don't have when you are trying to make a profit.

-on a side note, My dyslexia has me typing backwards. Don't be surprised if you see me typing SC Mill instead of CS mill or other nonsense. Next thing I know, I'll be building the house backwards...:redface:


----------



## BobL (Jun 20, 2012)

Doss said:


> 5. Lots of chain oil. I have about 4 or 5 gallons of it with me normally... but that's for several hours of cutting and I usually have a LOT left over.
> 6. Lots of fuel. I can burn about 4 to 5 gallons of this on a long day.



Crikey, I have never used half this much oil and fuel in one long day.


----------



## Hillbilly3995 (Jun 20, 2012)

BobL said:


> Crikey, I have never used half this much oil and fuel in one long day.



Yeah Bob me either. To the original poster these guys are telling it like it is and let me assure you
BobL Wrote the exam to get a PhD in chain milling.

That said I guess you guys would freak out the way I do it, but I guess I'll need to make a video.
I NEVER use wedges. My last day out I milled 150-180 Bft on near two gallons of gas. in about 
6 hours. I use a slabbing saw that follows a 2X6 rail to cut a flat on the log,or cut into a square cant, then use an alaskan to cut lumber. Theres a long learning curve and do not expect to make money, not that it cant happen, but its the exception not the rule.


----------



## Doss (Jun 21, 2012)

BobL said:


> Crikey, I have never used half this much oil and fuel in one long day.



HA! I said I had some left over. Usually by all day, I mean I'm out there for about 8-12 hours running 2 saws almost around the clock (2 hands = 2 saws... wait, that's wrong. 2 people = 2 saws and a blower :msp_tongue. So *Hillbilly3995*, your usage works out to roughly the same as mine.

I just wanted him to be prepared for fuel and oil. I'm sure most people only use about a gallon of each at the most, but they're probably using smaller saws on smaller logs. I run the MS880 wet (soaked in bar oil) as much as possible with the auxiliary oiler. Is that wrong? Maybe. 

I'm not arguing with you pros, I'm just talking from my own experiences.

About wedges, I don't know how you guys keeps the slabs from pinching down on the bar. I don't have a big problem with it in the red oak I cut, but the water oak tends to clamp down on the bar a little bit (not much, but it's noticeable). That's just physics. Also, it's a lot easier to get a big slab moving (3-4" thick) if you have it on wedges as opposed to being flat on the log. If you have a log that's 40-50" across and 10-16' long, eventually it's going to pinch a little bit on the bar. If I don't wedge it, I end up cutting the bottom of the slab again with the see-sawing I do and getting out of the cut will not be fun.


----------



## Dave Boyt (Jun 22, 2012)

Not too many band saws handle 40" diameter logs. Even if you get a band mill (and I go along with this recommendation), you may still need to slab them down with a chain saw mill just to get them to a size the band mill can handle. For wide slab table tops, I quarter the big logs with the chain saw mill, mill the quarters with the band mill, carefully keeping the boards in sequence so that I can glue the halves back together after the slabs are dry. This reduces drying defects, and makes the pieces easier to handle.


----------



## sachsmo (Jun 26, 2012)

Just do it,

The first time you open up *any* log, you will see why so many get hooked.

It aint about money or time, it's that high you get from making something you can't buy.

CS millin' *is* work, but the benefits are "priceless"


----------



## pete_86 (Aug 6, 2014)

sachsmo said:


> Just do it,
> 
> The first time you open up *any* log, you will see why so many get hooked.
> 
> ...



I know this is an old thread, but I just found it by searching and I gotta say I hate how long and how much work it can be, but it keeps me busy, gives me a reason to run my saw, and if you keep at it you'll be surprised at the piles of lumber you'll get. Mill a bit here and there and you'll have lots of lumber. I just started about a yr ago and have a small barn full. I like having the lumber for building or woodworking. If I spend about $60 on boards at Lowes or I spend an hr or two milling I figure I've paid myself $30 to $60 an hr plus whatever time it takes to get logs and stack the wood to dry.

Wish I had a band mill though, it's a lot of work, but right now I'd never be able to afford one and for 1/4 of the price I have acess to rough cut lumber. I keep reminding myself that because just about every time something breaks on saw or I never get enough work done I'll swear I'm buying a mill and tossing the CS mill, but than sticker shock sets in. Haha, hope everyone is milling boards and havin fun. Old thread but fig some newbies may find interesting.


----------



## pete_86 (Aug 6, 2014)

Also just built a cabinet for canned goods, my gf loves it! I told her I was done milling after I spent a day heaving logs around and came home dead tired. should've seen her jaw drop in disappointment. She loves what I make around the house for near free. I recommend everyone get some proper equipment. I only have small trailer and hand winch and have a hard time with large 5' logs getting them loaded if it's on a hillside. My goal for now is to keep a band mill in the future but work on getting a better trailer setup.


----------



## Dave Boyt (Aug 6, 2014)

You're right. This is a good thread and worth keeping current. Whatever mill a person uses, it is a thrill to open a log and find out what's inside. I started out with a chain saw mill, and have had three band mill since then. Once you get your second wind, you'll be back to milling, and figure out easier, more efficient ways to do it. Keep us posted.


----------



## BigOakAdot (Aug 6, 2014)

After reading that massive list that doss made, I gotta say I'm a little discouraged. I bought a cs mill because I already had saws for firewood and figured wtf. 

I milled a cherry blossom tree from my parents front yard where I grew up and it was amazing. My sister was there and kept yelling "that is EFFFING awesome dude!" She was even more hyped than I was lol. 

You guys are right that nothing compares to opening up a log and seeing the natural beauty inside. Sure beats bucking it and torching it every winter. Now that I milled my first log I realized I was very unprepared. Didn't even take a second to think about drying out the wood. I have the boards in my garage just leaning against the wall. The pieces definitely twisted a little bit, but I'm pretty sure they're still salvageable. At least I had the sense to paint the ends . 

Bottom line you guys are right, time is the biggest thing. We're talking easily 2 years of drying before I can even think of selling slabs or making furniture. That's a long time to see no return on your original investment. Maybe in 5 years I'll be digging up this post and telling you the killing I made on natural edge tables and countertops but until then I'll be missing that money. Happy milling everyone.


----------



## pete_86 (Aug 7, 2014)

BigOakAdot said:


> After reading that massive list that doss made, I gotta say I'm a little discouraged. I bought a cs mill because I already had saws for firewood and figured wtf.
> 
> I milled a cherry blossom tree from my parents front yard where I grew up and it was amazing. My sister was there and kept yelling "that is EFFFING awesome dude!" She was even more hyped than I was lol.
> 
> ...




Hey man, your sis sounds cool. That's pretty funny. Get her to help you mill.  I built my cabinet with pine I prob milled 10 mo ago, tree maybe sat 2 mo or so. So about a yr for 1" thickness like they say. I too wanted to build right than and there, but the time flies by. Have fun millin, make big piles of lumber like more than what you think you need, than by the time you figure out what you want to do with it you always have it and it's plenty dry. Kinda like firewood, sucks for those that have to get started from ground up.

I don't plan on selling, I have so many projects and I just keep reminding my sweety how much money we saved each time something is built. I've been doing planter boxes for container garden, cat scratching post, a lamp holder for a venus fly trap, and the cabinet. Plus I'm going to throw some green shelves up in my barn to store tools on. Yeah it'll dry and be just fine, tools won't mind slightly damp wood. 

Today I went out and milled for 6 hrs, I saved myself about $123 comparing to 1x6x4 project boards at HD for $3 a pop. I'll prob use most of them at 1x12 or so. Prices much higher there, plans to build a bookcase. 

Oh and setup a kiln, sounds crazy but I need to look into that. I've thought of building a room in my barn maybe 4x9 just enough to get a stack into. Throw a dehumidifier or old furnace in. For me I don't have gas available, prob stick to dehumidifier or elec heater. IMO that's extreme but it works.


----------



## pete_86 (Aug 7, 2014)

Dave Boyt said:


> You're right. This is a good thread and worth keeping current. Whatever mill a person uses, it is a thrill to open a log and find out what's inside. I started out with a chain saw mill, and have had three band mill since then. Once you get your second wind, you'll be back to milling, and figure out easier, more efficient ways to do it. Keep us posted.



Just milled today, saw broke yesterday and had to replace tensioner slide arm only $6 part and a hardware store down the road is also a stihl dealer thank goodness. I was more worried about having to wait few days for shipping. I milled two 5' x 28" pine logs and a small prob 8" cherry log just to practice a new milling jig I built, rough cut 2x6 with angle iron on sides. I felt a bit let down that it took me nearly 6 hrs, but it's what I've got to work with and I'm happy. 

What I learned today was, research your saw and see what common maintenance items or known failures. I've lost a bar nut and a tensioner slide so far after piles of lumber milled and firewood cutting, so not too bad. I'm stocking up in the future on a few tensioner arms, rim sprockets, and will get another chain loop or two. I already stocked up on bar nuts.

My saw broke two slabs into a 30" pine, was not happy as I had to get the log back onto trailer and pack everything up. Such is life and learning though. I bring bar nuts with me, the tensioner is an occasional maintenance item but point I'm making is buy replacement parts and if you're a real nut even consider dragging a spare saw out. This I never plan on doing, just stock piling common parts. 

Also, I almost went with a 395xp, but not too many dealers around here. Most places carry Stihl so 660 for me and it was nice yesterday to need a part and have it local!


----------



## Yellowbeard (Aug 8, 2014)

First, as a newish CS miller I have to first say a big thumb's up to what Doss said. That was very well put as many have mentioned.

Second, take everything that BobL says with a grain of salt. It's like trying to take advice from Hercules on whether or not things are heavy. It's like asking Michelangelo if painting is a tough gig. He can't really understand the problems we mortals face, so lots of things he thinks of as just another day in the park we find daunting. That said, LISTEN TO EVERY WORD THE MAN SAYS. I have not yet seen him give what I considered bad advice and he's at least as nice as every other Aussie I've ever met.

How much of a hurry are you in? I bought a used saw (and then sold it and bought another one) and that saved a lot of money. Look around on this site and post what you want. People around here tend to have reputations they want to protect and I have yet to be screwed (rather the reverse) on any deal I've made on this site.

I watched ebay for a while and finally picked up an Alaskan for a decent price. Get the smallest one you need for your first log. There are ways to fudge up longer rails that are a lot cheaper than what Granberg sells them for. (Or, anyway, I think I have that figured out - I'll post what I am going to try soon).

I would advise getting the largest powerhead you can. There is a big difference in the amount of time it will take with more grunt.

As for money: I am getting ready to do my first job for "pay." I put "pay" in quotes here because it is going to require a 60" bar and new chains that I don't have. I've told the guy that I'll do the work in exchange for the new equipment I have to buy. Just ordered a 60" GB titanium earlier tonight. But it means I get to use the bar and chains from now on.

Just realized how old this thread actually is so I am going to stop here and leave it as advice for others with the same type of questions.


----------



## BobL (Aug 9, 2014)

Yellowbeard said:


> . . . Second, take everything that BobL says with a grain of salt. It's like trying to take advice from Hercules on whether or not things are heavy. It's like asking Michelangelo if painting is a tough gig. He can't really understand the problems we mortals face, so lots of things he thinks of as just another day in the park we find daunting. That said, LISTEN TO EVERY WORD THE MAN SAYS. I have not yet seen him give what I considered bad advice and he's at least as nice as every other Aussie I've ever met. .



Jees YB my head got so big after reading this I had to stay in the same room for a while cos my head wouldn't fit through the door. 



BigOakAdot said:


> After reading that massive list that doss made, I gotta say I'm a little discouraged. I bought a cs mill because I already had saws for firewood and figured wtf..



BOA, don't be discouraged, I started with a 50 cc MAC10 with a 16" bar that belonged to my BIL that dropped its little end after a couple of small logs. That power head was probably on its last legs anyway as I had used it for several years to grub out stumps. 

Two short pieces of 4x2, some bolts and some half inch ply is enough to make a very basic alaskan mill. The rest just makes it easier.


----------



## Yellowbeard (Aug 9, 2014)

BobL said:


> Jees YB my head got so big after reading this I had to stay in the same room for a while cos my head wouldn't fit through the door.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I just call 'em like I see 'em.


----------



## Dave Boyt (Aug 9, 2014)

BigOak, sure, there is a lot of learning, but that's part of the fun. Sharing your experiences with other like-minded folks helps. Pretty soon, you'll be dishing out advice. The 660 with a slabbing chain should be a great foundation for the mill. By the way, I sell a lot of wood fresh off the mill. As long as the customers know they're getting green wood, and understand how to dry/use it, they're fine (though the price is lower than with air dry or kiln dry wood. There are a lot of tricks the old-time woodworkers used to build with green wood that allow for it shrinking as it dries (like trestle tables). Keep us posted.


----------



## KiwiBro (Aug 9, 2014)

Dave Boyt said:


> There are a lot of tricks the old-time woodworkers used to build with green wood that allow for it shrinking as it dries (like trestle tables).


 Which so many people, myself included, wouldn't have a clue about or how to do. I only wish I could visit an experienced wood guy for a week or so and hope some of that wisdom and experience rubs off. The way they could make joins that only tigtened when the wood dried, relying on the different drying rates of wood with differently orientated grain, etc. On my bucket list is to learn how to make furniture without any glues or screws. Currently finishing off a bookcase that has heaps of glue joints, no metal, and I'm sure there must be a way of making it without glue.

But the types of native wood I like to make stuff from is all demolition wood, not native and not green, so I'm thinking I'll have to make more mortice and tenon joins and use little wedges made from harder wood to kep the joints tight but then I worry about introducing a split that works it's way along the timber over time.

So much to learn, so little time.

But back on topic, I have a slabbing attachment coming for a little 16HP portable mill I bought recently. Cant wait for it to get here and to play and learn , and screw it up and learn, and learn. 

Has anyone tried the Oregon ripping chain that skips about 5 links then has a pair of cutters then skips another 5 and so on? This is on a bar with about a 60" cut. Meant to be great for keeping the kerf clear and at least trying to reduce the heat build-up.


----------



## BobL (Aug 9, 2014)

KiwiBro said:


> Which so many people, myself included, wouldn't have a clue about or how to do. I only wish I could visit an experienced wood guy for a week or so and hope some of that wisdom and experience rubs off. The way they could make joins that only tigtened when the wood dried, relying on the different drying rates of wood with differently orientated grain, etc. On my bucket list is to learn how to make furniture without any glues or screws. Currently finishing off a bookcase that has heaps of glue joints, no metal, and I'm sure there must be a way of making it without glue.



This is one way
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...milled-wood-merged.47084/page-42#post-4230957


----------



## KiwiBro (Aug 9, 2014)

Thanks Bob. I had forgotten about that thread. Some wonderful work in there.


----------



## BigOakAdot (Aug 10, 2014)

BobL said:


> This is one way
> http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...milled-wood-merged.47084/page-42#post-4230957


Bob L that's an awesome thread. I just looked at that one page and it blew my mind. Does anyone on here know why I'm unable to view pics that are set up as links? I always get an error message when I try to open them. 

BOA


----------



## TheLazyBFarm (Aug 10, 2014)

Hopefully not a hijack.

I want to start CS milling some of my wood on my little 38 acres of heaven in SW Lincoln county, TN. Specifically, I want to mill down some cedar trees that I have cut down.

I have a MM'd Stihl MS 440 Magnum with a 25" bar. Can I use this with a CS mill, realistically? If so, what CS mill should I start out with? I have a welder and can make almost anything needed as discussed above. 

I know, I know, basic questions; again hopefully not a hijack!

Thanks,


----------



## BobL (Aug 10, 2014)

How big are the cedars? A 25" bar has a max cut width of about 19" using a conventional alaskan. Using an alaskan design that bolts the mill to the bar bolts and thru the bar nose will get you another 3" of cut.
Some details about this are in post #25 in the CS Milling 101 sticky (http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...nts-tips-and-tricks.93458/page-2#post-1507640)


----------



## bower4311 (Aug 12, 2014)

I'll chime in since my first board was milled Sunday. Milled a 3" thick board for the bar at my wedding. Had a Stihl 441, Panther Pro Mill, a couple wedges, actually used a chain that I had for the 28" bar that came with the saw (hand sharpened), and a tape measure. It did not take long for us to mill the board, and with a hand plane you can get these boards worked up pretty quickly. You will never make money with boards doing this. But you could make some money if you were interested in your own wood-working projects. A 3" thick bar could demand a pretty penny if you had the right buyer. Maybe you can make a bench, or a mantle, or a table top counter. Making stuff for yourself means you don't have to spend on something that costs thousands. Make your own table. It will look 10x as nice as a store-bought for much less money, and it's fun. If you have a saw, buy a mill if you have access to some logs. My brother and I get many for free so it works out well. The Panther Mill is a little heavier, but not too bad for my brother and I who are young. Easy to use, it needs some measurement marks sometime, but not a huge priority at the moment. We can take a saw and this mill anywhere to mill a board. It really didn't cost us too much to start up with the saw. Sure we can't mill HUGE logs, but as long as it fits the application, it's good enough for us.

Picture of Cherry Bar


----------



## TheLazyBFarm (Aug 12, 2014)

BobL said:


> How big are the cedars? A 25" bar has a max cut width of about 19" using a conventional alaskan. Using an alaskan design that bolts the mill to the bar bolts and thru the bar nose will get you another 3" of cut.
> Some details about this are in post #25 in the CS Milling 101 sticky (http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...nts-tips-and-tricks.93458/page-2#post-1507640)



Bob, I saw that thread and your post while researching CS mills the other day; good information even if I didn't understand half of it.

I like option #5 and/or #8: How do I get them? And by "alaskan", I *assume* you're referring to the Grandberg Alaskan Mk III type CS mill?

*Currently* the largest cedar I have down right now is around 18" at the fat end (just a guestimate, I haven't measured it). It was the cedar that tried to kill me last fall.

Thanks, and again, if this is hijacking, I can start another thread.

Thanks,


----------



## BobL (Aug 13, 2014)

TheLazyBFarm said:


> Bob, I saw that thread and your post while researching CS mills the other day; good information even if I didn't understand half of it.


That's OK I can barely understand it myself 



> I like option #5 and/or #8: How do I get them?


You have to roll your own on these designs



> And by "alaskan", I *assume* you're referring to the Grandberg Alaskan Mk III type CS mill?


My definition of an "Alaskan mill" is any portable CSM where the bar is held at each end. Granberg is just one of a number of alaskan variants around.



> *Currently* the largest cedar I have down right now is around 18" at the fat end (just a guestimate, I haven't measured it). It was the cedar that tried to kill me last fall.


A 25" bar and a standard alaskan with the bar held in bar clamps at each end will will handle that but what about other trees on your property?[/QUOTE]


----------



## TheLazyBFarm (Aug 13, 2014)

OK, so when you say "roll your own", you're referring to modding the CSM when you get it, right?

Reading the Bailey's site on CS mills, they state that you can use a smaller bar on a larger mill but not the other way around. Hence, I could use 25" bar on a 36" mill (for example) and then, if needed, upgrade to a longer bar and chain later.

I think the biggest tree I have on my property is about 6' in diameter at the trunk. I'll have to take a pic of it sometime.

Thanks,


----------



## Yellowbeard (Aug 13, 2014)

TheLazyBFarm said:


> OK, so when you say "roll your own", you're referring to modding the CSM when you get it, right?
> 
> Reading the Bailey's site on CS mills, they state that you can use a smaller bar on a larger mill but not the other way around. Hence, I could use 25" bar on a 36" mill (for example) and then, if needed, upgrade to a longer bar and chain later.
> 
> ...



I /think/ what BobL means by "roll your own" is to make your own mill from scratch. I take that as his meaning from context and from the fact that I know he has made several Alaskan type (and maybe other?) mills from scratch. "Roll your own," generally, refers to rolling one's own cigarettes, which the Brits and Aussies are more prone to do than Americans. They end up using the phrase to mean any type of "make your own thing when there's a mass-produced version of that thing available but for probably a higher price." Sorry if this explanation seems patronizing - I don't mean it to me. I just thought I sensed a mis-communication happening. 

If you look at several pictures of Granberg or other Alaskan mills and are fairly handy, have time, can weld, etc. then it's probably not a big deal to make something similar more cheaply from commonly available stock. And just like with cigarettes, if you know what you are doing and use quality components, there's a pretty good chance that you can make something as good or possibly quite a bit better for less money. 

Again, my sincerest apologies if I have misunderstood the above situation but I lived in England for a year and found that the small differences in the way the language gets used can cause major mis-communications. For a quick example of how things can go terribly wrong, look up the subtly (but very important) difference in how Brits use the word "horny" as compared to Yanks.


----------



## comptche1224 (Aug 14, 2014)

waiting on a granberg 36" jig to show up in the mail. got loads of buckskins all around. cant wait to cut into old growth vertical grain, or some curly for that matter. let ya'll know how it goes. ms660 should be sufficient for that size mill right?


----------



## BobL (Aug 14, 2014)

YB has "hit the nail on the head" so to speak, but it does include modification as well.

It's pity that most of the photos have gone on this site as there were some excellent mods shown from time to time.


----------



## TheLazyBFarm (Aug 14, 2014)

Yellowbeard said:


> I /think/ what BobL means by "roll your own" is to make your own mill from scratch. I take that as his meaning from context and from the fact that I know he has made several Alaskan type (and maybe other?) mills from scratch. "Roll your own," generally, refers to rolling one's own cigarettes, which the Brits and Aussies are more prone to do than Americans. They end up using the phrase to mean any type of "make your own thing when there's a mass-produced version of that thing available but for probably a higher price." Sorry if this explanation seems patronizing - I don't mean it to me. I just thought I sensed a mis-communication happening.
> 
> If you look at several pictures of Granberg or other Alaskan mills and are fairly handy, have time, can weld, etc. then it's probably not a big deal to make something similar more cheaply from commonly available stock. And just like with cigarettes, if you know what you are doing and use quality components, there's a pretty good chance that you can make something as good or possibly quite a bit better for less money.
> 
> Again, my sincerest apologies if I have misunderstood the above situation but I lived in England for a year and found that the small differences in the way the language gets used can cause major mis-communications. For a quick example of how things can go terribly wrong, look up the subtly (but very important) difference in how Brits use the word "horny" as compared to Yanks.



Yea, I pretty much meant that although the mods I was asking about was just the nose bar mods (#5 7 #8) vs. making a CS mill from scratch. 

Per Bailey's online, it would appear that one of those AK III CS mills would be around $225 or so with a pretty decent length bar guide. I'm going to see if I can find one off of CL or fleabay.

Thanks,


----------

