# Contract Climber



## Climb020 (Oct 8, 2006)

I am hoping to break off and do my own thing come spring of 07 but just need to find out exactually what I need to be a contract climber. I am talking with business associates of mine about how much work they will have for me to make sure I will be able to work full time. One of them would like to go partners but I would rather just be contracted in for tax reasons.

What types of insurance should I buy? I don't plan on getting work for any really big jobs but nothing is definite. As well I was planning to keep the books legal and legit so what should I keep close attection to? What taxes are required to file? I plan of meeting with an accountant to find out all the detail but would imagine that the guys here could at least get me started and thinking in the right direction.

Anyone from Jersey exspecially feel free to respond to let me know of any laws or guidelines that I might not be aware of. All of your advice is greatly appreciated.


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 10, 2006)

Contract climbing.

Im no expert on the legal and accounting side of things but i have been contracting for a while.

As a contract climber, obviously you do have to find your own work. The chances of starting your own business as a contractor and having unlimited work is not very high - While starting out anyway. You may find you need some "bread and butter work" - possibly as an employee its work that is assured. This gives you something to fall back on if the contract climbing work becomes scarce at times. Leave this as a last resort though and dont do it for more than one company.

I would warn against a business with partner's. I have never been a partner but the stories i have heard are not promising - you are liable for your partner's debts and friendships can be stretched.

As a contract climber, you are supposed to be the cream of the climbing crop so expect all the big and nasty jobs. You will get the jobs other people cant do, or dont want to do. This is why you charge what your worth. You may find you cant just pick and choose jobs.

Get some decent insurance! If you are going to go all out then bite the bullet and folk the money out. Talk to the insurance brokers and insurance company's, you might learn something worth while.

TAX - Good on you for keeping things legitimate because if you dont you will most critically get stung hard in the long run. Talk to your accountant thats what you are paying them for and dont be afraid to ask questions! 

Do what you do and do it well. Let the accountants do their job - just make sure you are in the loop!

Good luck, let us know how you get on mate


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## OTG BOSTON (Oct 10, 2006)

*Stay Small*

I can appreciate the interest in being the guy everyone calls for the big hairy jobs, but do you really want to earn a living only doing other peoples crap?? Plus the fact that they are going to add to the bill so they can profit off of your skills?

I would get into a small truck and chipper and a good billing/tracking software. You could still hire yourself out to other companies but also pick and choose your own jobs. Would you rather make $300 for risking your life or be able to make twice that for fine pruning ornamentals?

Just my thoughts, good luck 

G


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## Climb020 (Oct 10, 2006)

Jim1NZ said:


> Contract climbing.
> As a contract climber, you are supposed to be the cream of the climbing crop so expect all the big and nasty jobs. You will get the jobs other people cant do, or dont want to do. This is why you charge what your worth. You may find you cant just pick and choose jobs.



I find this quite funny. Cause this is the jobs that I really enjoy doing. I will get to the job and everyone is like of this job is so f***ed up. And I'm just standing there smiling ear to ear cause I can't wait to get started. Big, dangerous, and with lots of obsticles in tight spaces are my favorite trees to do. Anything under 40' anymore I don't even want to mess around with. 

I have a good relationship with most of the tree services in my area. So lucky if things get tight I can always get work. But just in the past 2 days I have totalled 5 companies that could use me where 2 need me multiple days a week. Lucky for me there are lots of companies in the area with very few good workers out there.


Thanks for the advice though. Can't wait for spring.


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 10, 2006)

Hey OTG, your talking about two completely different things. Owning a business with your own equipment - truck and chipper is a lot different to sub contract climbing.

With your own business you are completely on your own, you must find all your own work. You deal with customers, pricing, maintenance of equipment, running around to little jobs everywhere. As a contract climber, once you have established yourself as a highly skilled contractor other business will ring you. You deal with the boss, you have your own climbing and rigging equipment and thats it.

I believe as a contact climber you must expect the big jobs because others simply cant do them thus you charge - or your hourly rate is set accordingly.

Its personal preference, if you are good enough you can anything.


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 10, 2006)

Climb020 said:


> I find this quite funny. Cause this is the jobs that I really enjoy doing. I will get to the job and everyone is like of this job is so f***ed up. And I'm just standing there smiling ear to ear cause I can't wait to get started. Big, dangerous, and with lots of obsticles in tight spaces are my favorite trees to do.



Thats good you like a challenge, good on ya.

Just make sure you charge at least double what you earn as an employee because thats what is going to cost you in operating expenses.

And if there are not many good climbers around your area, even better because you can specialize toward the stuff others cant do. Remember if others cant do it there is no one to do it but you so dont get ripped off in the process charge lots! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## OTG BOSTON (Oct 13, 2006)

Yeah I guess I just don't get it. It has been my experience that most of the good climbers around here work for good companies. 

I'm having a tough time understanding what type of tree co. wouldn't have a great climber on the payroll. Are there really enough companies like that out there to keep you busy?


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## Climb020 (Oct 13, 2006)

Most of the guys I know are from a larger company. They are all one man shows that need good help. You have to start somewhere and positive references are great to have. But I was given names of two other bigger companies that use contract climbers.

But yeah most companies have at least one good climber that can do about anything. But me personally I see I big difference between good and great climbers. Good climbers to me have there way of doing it and they pretty much stick to it all the time. And it works good for them so fine. But a great climber to me is constantly adding tricks to their bag so that there are always options when performing a job and you get to see a bigger picture.

As well as the other plus is equipment wise. I keep all my stuff in like new condition. Also I tend to buy a lot of "gadgets" for rigging and the like. Most of the guys I have worked with never seen some of the stuff I have or know how to use it. Though a job can get done without the fancy stuff it sure makes my job easier as a climber.
I am not try to say I am great. I am just trying to offer the best service possible for the companies I work for. I have started gaining a reputation of being a good innovative climber and hope to keep it going.


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## l2edneck (Oct 13, 2006)

Gear and insurance.

Then mass mail companies in yer area and hope it takes.

Make sure yer a hired gun and get what you want($) to do each job.
Not a i'll meet you and you pay me this much a day.

Contract or "free lance" is what i was doin for many years and it worked well.Then i just decided to grab my own equipment and get er dun.Now i make way more for less work but it isn't always there.

Plus free lancin you dont have the overhead.Or the nightly probs unless the companies u work for are no good.


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## OTG BOSTON (Oct 16, 2006)

Good luck 020, I admire your enthusiasim.


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## vctree (Oct 16, 2006)

if you can get to the TCIA in Nov, you may be able to get some great info on insurance requirements there. also, there are a ton of seminars that might be in your best interest too attend. remember, everything peoplr tell you is their advise, it is up to you to apply it to you own business.


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## Climb020 (Oct 16, 2006)

Thanks vc for reminding me. I already have a full truck going to the expo being it is so close. The last expo I went to had a lot of info on insurance but it don't concern me at the time to gather any info. I have a feeling I will be able to get a lot of my questions answered there.


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## jomoco (Oct 16, 2006)

Hey there Climb020,

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned anything about a State Contractors License.

I am a contract climber here in California, and I had to pass the State Contractors License Exam to get a State Contractors License number, then get bonded, then get contractors liability insurance.

If things are different in your state, please ignore my reply.

It was not terribly difficult to get legal, though it was a might expensive, and I charge accordingly.

Work Safe

jomoco


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## jomoco (Oct 16, 2006)

BTW,

Best deal on liability insurance I found is offered by N.A.C.U.A.A.

North American Chemical Users and Applicators, Salt Lake City, Utah

I know it sounds like a bunch of druggies, but they're a very reputable company, backed by Loyds of London.

jomoco


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## Climb020 (Oct 16, 2006)

Jomoco I checked the laws on NJ but I probally need clarification here.

Here is what it says
"Any remodeling, altering, painting, repairing, renovating, restoring, moving, demolishing, or modernizing of a residential structure is considered home improvement work. This includes work on the following:

driveways garages 
sidewalks basements and basement waterproofing 
swimming pools fire protection devices 
terraces security protection devices 
patios central heating and air conditioning equipment 
*landscaping * water softeners 
fences heaters 
porches purifiers 
windows solar heating or water systems 
doors insulation installation 
cabinets aluminum siding 
kitchens wall-to-wall carpeting 
bathrooms attached or inlaid floor coverings 

When concerning insurance I know tree work is much different then landscaping but how about in this manor. I have a feeling that tree work is cover here.

If anyone in NJ can just clarify this for me it would be greatly appreciated.


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## jomoco (Oct 16, 2006)

When I first got my Contractors License here in CA in 92 it was under a tree service section called C61, it has since changed to D49, but is still under a specific section for tree service.

I know zip about the east coast, but am quite confident that the folks at TCIA would be able to answer all your questions.

Good Luck!

jomoco


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## jmcguiretree (Oct 16, 2006)

I just started this year on my own as a part time hobby.I do some climbing/bucket for a small local tree service and some for my self.I found that working for someone works good at times because they are the ones that screen all of the calls so that you don't spend have of your time looking at jobs. Also with the extra money that i have made i picked up a 01' chipper and put a dump insert in my 1-ton(which works great).When work gets slow , I have my truck and chipper to keep me going.Remember , the more the equipment,the more you need to work,the more people you need, etc..etc..
Keep it small and you will do just as good as the big guys!! P.S. DON'T FORGET TREE INSURANCE.


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## (WLL) (Dec 25, 2006)

*lol lol lol lol*



Climb020 said:


> I am hoping to break off and do my own thing come spring of 07 but just need to find out exactually what I need to be a contract climber. I am talking with business associates of mine about how much work they will have for me to make sure I will be able to work full time. One of them would like to go partners but I would rather just be contracted in for tax reasons.
> 
> What types of insurance should I buy? I don't plan on getting work for any really big jobs but nothing is definite. As well I was planning to keep the books legal and legit so what should I keep close attection to? What taxes are required to file? I plan of meeting with an accountant to find out all the detail but would imagine that the guys here could at least get me started and thinking in the right direction.
> 
> Anyone from Jersey exspecially feel free to respond to let me know of any laws or guidelines that I might not be aware of. All of your advice is greatly appreciated.


:monkey: :monkey: :monkey: :monkey: :monkey:


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## CoreyTMorine (Dec 26, 2006)

Things that have worked for me or that I wish I had done;

Buy 3 strand rope on 600’ spools. I can’t believe the things I’ve seen some of these guys do to my lines. And the 3 strand is cheap and easy to splice.

The company owners love to get on your ropes for lowering, and they are mostly horrible at it. Nobody can tie a proper attachment knot for sending things aloft either.

Insist on proper PPE from the get go. If you let them slide just once its all over, they will toss they’re hardhats as soon as ypu are off of the ground. This is my single greatest issue when climbing for another company.

Be honest with your insurance broker. Landscaping doesn’t include trees over 3 stories on my policy, and if you do any work with a crane it costs more. I pay @1300 for 1mil insurance.

Make sure you have A1 health insurance for yourself. This could run from 400 to 1000 per month, depending on your deductible.

Its pretty nice to have 12 months expenses in the bank. This is the first thing I would work on saving for.

I do a lot of pruning, the companies that hire me don’t have a full time climber, landscapers on one end and loggers on the other. There were two outfits in particular feeding me a constant diet of harry-scary. One of them I stopped working for all together, 3 different guys went to the hospital over the course of 3 years. The funny thing is that this company was one of the best regarding PPE. The real warning signs were drugs and criminal activity in the background and constantly underbidding the work. The other owner I made an agreement that I wanted to bid on all the heavy work, this has worked out great. If I think I want to take 10 hours to wreck one tree then that’s the number I give him.

Anyway good luck, I sometimes think that all climbers should be independent.


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