# Two Years Of Improvements In Meteor Cylinder Kits (Brad's Pics)



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

I really hate being dragged into this but I disagree with this statement.... 



blsnelling said:


> Honestly, I don't see the improvements. The pics speak for themselves.
> 
> I do want to thank WatsonR for sending the kit for review, just as he said he would.



For those who think I have a big stake in this and that I'm selling loads of these kits.......I've sold two......both ported.

Exhaust....












Lowers.....











Uppers....


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

Intake.....











Exhaust outlet.....This one shows little improvement. BTW











Plating quality... 











I see a huge improvement. 

Brad????? Have one had those old eyes checked lately? 

Brad is my friend.....remember that we can disagree without being disagreeable here. 

I would still like to see more improvement....the squish taper being the most needed. The biggest question remains; how do they perform when just bolted on? On my 372 it was a great runner. I tore the saw back down after a dozen tanks and there was no abnormal wear on the piston or rings.....no shiny spots from out of round that I've seen on other aftermarket top ends.


----------



## logging22 (Dec 9, 2012)

Subbing in on this one. Let it fly brother.:msp_tongue:


----------



## Zombiechopper (Dec 9, 2012)

You guys all gotta chill. 

The truth is in the middle somewhere. I saw improvement as well, and I would buy a meteor kit at this point if it weren't for the inverted squish issue. I always check squish at outer edge and if I bought one of these and ran ideal squish like I always do (without machine work) I could have a piston slapper on my hands.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 9, 2012)

Just going to be honest. 

Without porting and machine work. I wouldn't want to bolt that cylinder on as a stock replacement for a customers saw. Just going by those pics in this thread. Sorry I'm not sold.


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Dec 9, 2012)

logging22 said:


> Subbing in on this one. Let it fly brother.:msp_tongue:


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

logging22 said:


> Subbing in on this one. Let it fly brother.:msp_tongue:



No hard feelings here Les. I just see a improvement where Brad does not. 



Zombiechopper said:


> You guys all gotta chill.
> 
> The truth is in the middle somewhere. I saw improvement as well, and I would buy a meteor kit at this point if it weren't for the inverted squish issue. I always check squish at outer edge and if I bought one of these and ran ideal squish like I always do (without machine work) I could have a piston slapper on my hands.



I've checked squish across the squish band and a few thousandths is all the taper I've seen. That comes about because there's a thick coating of plating on the squish band I think. I never run less than .020 squish so that is a non-issue to me.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just going to be honest.
> 
> Without porting and machine work. I wouldn't want to bolt that cylinder on as a stock replacement for a customers saw. Just going by those pics in this thread. Sorry I'm not sold.



I wouldn't either.....never said I would. I improve Mahle cylinders though so.........

Do you see any improvement though K?????? Honestly?


----------



## barneyrb (Dec 9, 2012)

I do see improvements but it still lacks a lot, and as you said, I would have to go through it before I ran it.......with what you are doing with them I think they are a great starting point.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 9, 2012)

Randy I never seen the first ones 2 years ago to compare this one to. Just going by what I have seen posted here lately in threads. 

All of the saws I rebuild now days just need bolt on replacement parts. Just saying the average firewood cutter just wants a saw thats starts, that runs, idles all day and has sharp chain. Thats my customer base around me. 

So I want bolt on stuff myself without extra work involved.


----------



## Jacob J. (Dec 9, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just going to be honest.
> 
> Without porting and machine work. I wouldn't want to bolt that cylinder on as a stock replacement for a customers saw. Just going by those pics in this thread. Sorry I'm not sold.



I agree. The last three big bore kits I've done (NWP) looked better than that out of the box and I still had to clean the ports up. The squish bands were nice and the pistons looked good. I still had to use OEM rings, pins, and clips from other sources. If only Meteor made the big bore pistons...


----------



## Jacob J. (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I wouldn't either.....never said I would. I improve Mahle cylinders though so.........
> 
> Do you see any improvement though K?????? Honestly?



As I've posted in the past, I've seen Mahle cylinders that were just terrible. There was a run of Mahle cylinders on the 046 that made the worst of the Chicom cylinders look great. In fact, they were so bad that Stihl USA was having us take brand new 046s out of the box and swap cylinders under warranty. There was also a run when the 044 first switched over to the 440 and Mahle had shaped the lower transfers incorrectly. So again, we were taking new saws out of the box under warranty and grinding the lower transfers. That sucked.


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

I applaud all those who wish to keep these threads as a civil discussion. This is what grown ups do. It really is ok to disagree.


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

Randy, when you put the pics side by side, yes, this new one is better. Bottom line, they're still not good enough, IMHO. If others feel they are, then they're welcome to their own decision. As I mentioned in my thread, my rationale may be different from others. If I were looking for a cheap alternative to simply get a saw back in the wood, then maybe. But I'm only building saws for a paying customer interested in max performance in a work saw. I don't find it in the best interest of either myself or my customers to start with a sub par cylinder.

I applaud you for not being willing to sell these kits without mods. That in and of itself makes quite a comment on the quality.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I applaud all those who wish to keep these threads as a civil discussion. This is what grown ups do. It really is ok to disagree.



If this gets ugly I'm out. 

I want to see these kits get even better, but to totally discount them and say there's be zero improvement makes me stand up and start typing. 

I think the reason the kits have come as far as they have thus far is because of these threads and discussions. But saying the improvements that have come about aren't there could cause the manufacturer this throw their hands in the air and go into #### it mode. We don't want that.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Randy, when you put the pics side by side, yes, this new one is better. Bottom line, they're still not good enough, IMHO. If others feel they are, then they're welcome to their own decision.



Thank you my friend. 

They need more tweaks. We can get there if we work together.


----------



## Jacob J. (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Randy, when you put the pics side by side, yes, this new one is better. Bottom line, they're still not good enough, IMHO. If others feel they are, then they're welcome to their own decision.



The bottom line is, can John Q. Woodcutter buy one of these kits, take it out of the box, pop it on his saw, and have a decent runner? That's what 99% of the market share these kits are directed at is going to do.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> The bottom line is, can John Q. Woodcutter buy one of these kits, take it out of the box, pop it on his saw, and have a decent runner? That's what 99% of the market share these kits are directed at is going to do.



I did just that with a 372 kit. It ran real well.


----------



## Jacob J. (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I did just that with a 372 kit. It ran real well.



Then that's the answer in my mind. After all, this site is less than one tenth of one percent of saw enthusiasts/wood cutters/industry professionals. Granted, we have some of the best around here but ultimately there's millions of people with *** and they need a plug and play product.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

I use a lot of Meteor pistons. They have improved the clips to the point that I will now use them. All the old style hasn't been sold out yet though and sometimes I still receive the ones with the crappy clips. I saw the clips that came with either Brad's or Wigg's kit were old style and wonder how old that kit was.


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

I editted my last post, and it reflects what I think the differences in opinions here comes from. I would consider these if looking for a cheap way to simply get a saw back up and running. It's for the guy paying $250 for a performance mod, or the builder being paid to deliver said performance, that I don't think they make sense. If I were paying $250 for these mods, I would want the best product possible, not starting with a sub par cylinder. I as the builder, don't want my name on a sub par cylinder. Also, it's going to take a lot more work to make a proper runner out of one of these. I'm can't charge more for all that work, so why would I want to start there, and then hope that it works out?


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 9, 2012)

Randy do they have a 50cc 346 kit? 

I have one woods ported 346 left and I could bolt a stock topend on and take a look at it compared to a 346 50cc oem stock for stock to stock testing. I'm not going to touch anything it needs to be a bolt on and pass my inspection.


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I use a lot of Meteor pistons. They have improved the clips to the point that I will now use them. All the old style hasn't been sold out yet though and sometimes I still receive the ones with the crappy clips. I saw the clips that came with either Brad's or Wigg's kit were old style and wonder how old that kit was.



I love Meteor pistons. It's because of that, that I expected so much more from these kits. I expected them to be a cut above the competition, just like their pistons.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Randy do they have a 50cc 346 kit?
> 
> I have one woods ported 346 left and I could bolt a stock topend on and take a look at it compared to a 346 50cc oem stock for stock to stock testing. I'm not going to touch anything it needs to be a bolt on and pass my inspection.



Yes they do. 

I don't sell the kits stock though. For that see Watsonr. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yes they do.
> 
> I don't sell the kits stock though. For that see Watsonr. :msp_thumbup:



I had a long talk with Henry the other day. I'll check with him. He sales elsewhere now too and setting up.


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I editted my last post, and it reflects what I think the differences in opinions here comes from. I would consider these if looking for a cheap way to simply get a saw back up and running. It's for the guy paying $250 for a performance mod, or the builder being paid to deliver said performance, that I don't think they make sense. If I were paying $250 for these mods, I would want the best product possible, not starting with a sub par cylinder. I as the builder, don't want my name on a sub par cylinder. Also, it's going to take a lot more work to make a proper runner out of one of these. I'm can't charge more for all that work, so why would I want to start there, and then hope that it works out?



How much more work are they? 10 minutes, 1 hour, 4 hours?

If you are cutting the squish band anyway, I don't see that much more time there. Is there a tremendous difference in the time to port one of these versus a OEM cylinder?


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 9, 2012)

i recommend to my customers buying used oem and will not install an after market cylinder on a customer saw. they have improved a lot since they first come out but im still not ready to use what they are producing at the moment. maybe with the next round of improvements they will get the cylinders on par to the point that the average joe can bolt it on and get near factory performance. i am confident that if any aftermarket company can get there product up to snuff with oem it is meteor.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 9, 2012)

website dont show a 346 kit, so a call will be in order. 

Models on Catalogue
HUSQVARNA

HUSQVARNA 55 Diam. 46 MP Ref. CC1660
HUSQVARNA 61 Diam. 48 MP Ref. CC1417
HUSQVARNA 268 Diam. 50 MP Ref. CC1723
HUSQVARNA 288 Diam. 54 MP Ref. CC1735
HUSQVARNA 340 Diam. 40 MP Ref. CC1730
HUSQVARNA 365 Diam. 48 MP Ref. CC1681
HUSQVARNA 372 Diam. 50 MP Ref. CC1725
HUSQVARNA 395 Diam. 56 MP Ref. CC1815


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

I'd like to see a poll, but don't seem to be able to add it to my thread. How many guys, paying $250 for a port job, would choose to save $100-$150 on a lesser quality cylinder.

OK, I figured it out and added a poll to my thread.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> website dont show a 346 kit, so a call will be in order.
> 
> Models on Catalogue
> HUSQVARNA
> ...



They may not then K. 

I know them well huh?


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'd like to see a poll, but don't seem to be able to add it to my thread. How many guys, paying $250 for a port job, would choose to save $100-$150 on a lesser quality cylinder.



I've sold one a week for two weeks.


----------



## mifirewoodguy (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I editted my last post, and it reflects what I think the differences in opinions here comes from. I would consider these if looking for a cheap way to simply get a saw back up and running. It's for the guy paying $250 for a performance mod, or the builder being paid to deliver said performance, that I don't think they make sense. If I were paying $250 for these mods, I would want the best product possible, not starting with a sub par cylinder. I as the builder, don't want my name on a sub par cylinder. Also, it's going to take a lot more work to make a proper runner out of one of these. I'm can't charge more for all that work, so why would I want to start there, and then hope that it works out?



Brad,
I see your point here exactly, for the porting guys that are making money to soup up saws why would you want to start with a sub par part (not saying how much sub par) and have to put more work into massaging it to where you want it or just start with a superior part and have less work to get it to the same level. I think for us guys like JJ and I who fix saws on the cheap for the guys that dont need HP saws just good runners, we're looking for good quality at a good price/ plug and play. Maybe someone can sit down and rate all the p/c kits from best to worst?? but then again who has the time or stock to do such a thing. Even GM,Ford and Chrysler put out inferior products every now and then and their QC is some of the best in the world. That being said I applaud all of you for the passion and diligence put forth to hopefully help make a good product even better....Lee


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

mifirewoodguy said:


> Brad,
> I see your point here exactly, for the porting guys that are making money to soup up saws why would you want to start with a sub par part (not saying how much sub par) and have to put more work into massaging it to where you want it or just start with a superior part and have less work to get it to the same level. I think for us guys like JJ and I who fix saws on the cheap for the guys that dont need HP saws just good runners, we're looking for good quality at a good price/ plug and play. Maybe someone can sit down and rate all the p/c kits from best to worst?? but then again who has the time or stock to do such a thing. Even GM,Ford and Chrysler put out inferior products every now and then and their QC is some of the best in the world. That being said I applaud all of you for the passion and diligence put forth to hopefully help make a good product even better....Lee



Understood. One of the problems I've seen is a lack in consistency in quality with all AM kits. One guy gets a good one, one gets a ring catcher. That makes rating the quality more difficult.


----------



## Zombiechopper (Dec 9, 2012)

mifirewoodguy said:


> Brad,
> I see your point here exactly, for the porting guys that are making money to soup up saws why would you want to start with a sub par part (not saying how much sub par) and have to put more work into massaging it to where you want it or just start with a superior part and have less work to get it to the same level. I think for us guys like JJ and I who fix saws on the cheap for the guys that dont need HP saws just good runners, we're looking for good quality at a good price/ plug and play. Maybe someone can sit down and rate all the p/c kits from best to worst?? but then again who has the time or stock to do such a thing. Even GM,Ford and Chrysler put out inferior products every now and then and their QC is some of the best in the world. That being said I applaud all of you for the passion and diligence put forth to hopefully help make a good product even better....Lee



The problem is, there seems to really be only one or two factories in china making the castings.....all the different brands appear to coming from the same source. Meteor might plate their own, bailey's sprays theirs with black goo....but they all pretty much look the same. 

I want Gillardoni replacement cylinders. Now that would be something worth buying


----------



## Eccentric (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'd like to see a poll, but don't seem to be able to add it to my thread. How many guys, paying $250 for a port job, would choose to save $100-$150 on a lesser quality cylinder.
> 
> OK, I figured it out and added a poll to my thread.



Time are tough for many Brad. That saved $100-$150 might mean putting off the port job for a few months at least.........if not prohibiting it entirely. Also, the difference in cost is almost enough to allow a third port job/rebuild to be paid for by the 'savings' from two port jobs/rebuilds (when using this Meteor kit instead of OEM). 

The flaws you've illustrated in that 'new' cylinder would all be eliminated by the porter/modifier during the course of the porting job. I don't see these cylinders being "lesser quality" in any way other than in those areas. The only person who might be affected by these flaws is the 'bolt on and go' customer. That's not the guy you were talking about in this post however.


----------



## Tree Sling'r (Dec 9, 2012)

Like Terry, I won't do anything other than OEM. I stand behind all my work, even if it is user error. Although, for those who need a cheaper replacement I will install aftermarket, but will not mod and will explain what they are getting. Nothing more than MY own way of doing business.
With that said, I too have had some terrible Mahle kits, mainly the ones one new saws, the kits in a box are normally pretty good.
I have had good luck with the Caber rings, that is a plus.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

mifirewoodguy said:


> Brad,
> I see your point here exactly, for the porting guys that are making money to soup up saws why would you want to start with a sub par part (not saying how much sub par) *and have to put more work into massaging it to where you want it or just start with a superior part and have less work to get it to the same level*. I think for us guys like JJ and I who fix saws on the cheap for the guys that dont need HP saws just good runners, we're looking for good quality at a good price/ plug and play. Maybe someone can sit down and rate all the p/c kits from best to worst?? but then again who has the time or stock to do such a thing. Even GM,Ford and Chrysler put out inferior products every now and then and their QC is some of the best in the world. That being said I applaud all of you for the passion and diligence put forth to hopefully help make a good product even better....Lee



I still don't see where they are more work to port. Could someone please tell me what I'm missing?


----------



## Mad Professor (Dec 9, 2012)

And the reason you guys don't use Tecomec is?


----------



## indiansprings (Dec 9, 2012)

There is definetely a need for the aftermarket kits, since I've become involved with a dealership it has been sad to see so many come in with saws that are toasted, primarily straight gassed, a few with with seal issues or intake boots, but they simply cannot afford to come up with the cash to put on new oem jugs and slugs. Times are extremely tough, the old it's cheaper to rebuild a pro saw argument doesn't hold water anymore imho. We sell used (after a detailed inspection) cylinders and pistons for half the price of new, that makes them more affordable, but we're always short on good pro saw used jugs. 
We can't install aftermarket in Stihl or Echo without getting in trouble, but we've pointed people who simply have no other economic option in the directon of Meotor.
With most pro saw replacement cylinders/pistons running north of 275.00 and then adding a base gasket for 3-4.00 and a upper rod bearing and them adding labor your looking at 450-475.00 for a shop to repair a saw, it is ecomonically not feasible for most people, they will buy a new 290 for under 400.00 and go on and leave there old saw with us.
Randy, kudo's to you and all the others that work with mfgs to improve their product, getting them to understand that people will even pay 20-25.00 more for better quality is the key, still a heck of alot better option to many than oem wallet wise. Mahle replacements have been top notch out of the box as far as I've seen, but for the money they should.


----------



## albert (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Randy, when you put the pics side by side, yes, this new one is better. Bottom line, they're still not good enough, IMHO. If others feel they are, then they're welcome to their own decision. As I mentioned in my thread, my rationale may be different from others. If I were looking for a cheap alternative to simply get a saw back in the wood, then maybe. But I'm only building saws for a paying customer interested in max performance in a work saw. I don't find it in the best interest of either myself or my customers to start with a sub par cylinder.
> 
> I applaud you for not being willing to sell these kits without mods. That in and of itself makes quite a comment on the quality.



Now the new kit is better, before this no improvement. Heck you took the pics, and they weren't even taken from similar angels. You haven't answered why you have a problem porting one. Aside from a bad bore or plating, or ports cast way out of place, porting should be straight forward. What is bad about the cylinder if it is ported? A novice should be able to make one run pretty good. I still say run it stock or send it to someone that will.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

albert said:


> Now the new kit is better, before this no improvement. Heck you took the pics, and they weren't even taken from similar angels. You haven't answered why you have a problem porting one. Aside from a bad bore or plating, or ports cast way out of place, porting should be straight forward. What is bad about the cylinder if it is ported? A novice should be able to make one run pretty good. I still say run it stock or send it to someone that will.



I have a 440 torn down on the bench just waiting for him to send it.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Dec 9, 2012)

I think the difference is obvious. I remember the first one I seen a few years ago was for a 460 and it was ugly...real ugly. I've seen a few lately that were 90% better than they were. OEM for me and I try to push OEM, but the majority of firewood cutters and people that use saws outside of AS doesn't really give a damn what name is on the cylinder under all that grime and filth. They want it to run and cut wood and make money with as little invested as possible. No doubt these topend kits will do that right out of the box. Just my little opinion so it isn't worth much :msp_unsure:.


----------



## Jacob J. (Dec 9, 2012)

Mad Professor said:


> And the reason you guys don't use Tecomec is?



Tecomec's catalog doesn't include many newer models of saws. I've used Tecomec kits for 038 and 026 and they were excellent. 
Tecomec hasn't delved into anything newer than 1996.

TECOMEC


----------



## albert (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Understood. One of the problems I've seen is a lack in consistency in quality with all AM kits. One guy gets a good one, one gets a ring catcher. That makes rating the quality more difficult.



How many stock top ends do you install? Has anyone on here had a ring snag on a stock meteor? The only ring catchers I have seen were from bad port jobs and crappy big bore rings, and some of them had modded cylinders.


----------



## ptjeep (Dec 9, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> the majority of firewood cutters and people that use saws outside of AS doesn't really give a damn what name is on the cylinder under all that grime and filth. They want it to run and cut wood and make money with as little invested as possible. No doubt these topend kits will do that right out of the box. Just my little opinion so it isn't worth much :msp_unsure:.



Dead nuts spot on!


----------



## mifirewoodguy (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I still don't see where they are more work to port. Could someone please tell me what I'm missing?



Randy, Understand Im not taking sides here, just trying to see where Brad is coming from. I use Meteor parts alot and find them just fine for my application.


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 9, 2012)

randy what ever happen to the cylinder you got from jeremy. the one that jeremy cleaned up and still didnt like its performance. i thought you ported it and still were not happy yourself with its performance compared to oem. i know these cylinders can be cleaned up and ported but can they run with an simularly ported oem. thats the reason i wont use them. its not becouse they cant be cleaned up and ported to run. but if the aftermarket isnt up to par performance wise will it be the cylinder manufacturer that suffers or me that suffers. what i see happening is even if these cylinders clean up nicely ,if they dont run as good as oem people will blame the builder for poor port work. i know people do in deed need a cheaper alternative to the high oem prices but at what cost to a saw builders repitation. id love to be able to give folks a low cost alternative to oem but until the cylinders are a straight up bolt on alternative to stock oem i will wait for them improve before i will use them.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> randy what ever happen to the cylinder you got from jeremy. the one that jeremy cleaned up and still didnt like its performance. i thought you ported it and still were not happy yourself with its performance compared to oem. i know these cylinders can be cleaned up and ported but can they run with an simularly ported oem. thats the reason i wont use them. its not becouse they cant be cleaned up and ported to run. but if the aftermarket isnt up to par performance wise will it be the cylinder manufacturer that suffers or me that suffers. what i see happening is even if these cylinders clean up nicely ,if they dont run as good as oem people will blame the builder for poor port work. i know people do in deed need a cheaper alternative to the high oem prices but at what cost to a saw builders repitation. id love to be able to give folks a low cost alternative to oem but until the cylinders are a straight up bolt on alternative to stock oem i will wait for them improve before i will use them.



I gave that saw away....a friend of mine was down to a 028 and was logging...he needed it much worse than I did. It was an early kit, probably like Brad's first one. It's still killing trees.


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 9, 2012)

randy id say it will be running for a long time. kudos for you helping a fella out and theres not doubt that it is a strong saw to boot. but is it oem strong,probably not. if we could make people understand that they are not going to be oem strong without us as the builder being in question of ability fo getting the job done right id use them myself. but we know how that will go. if you send a few out and there not quite as strong as other work youve done are the owners going to own up to using aftermarket over oem? or are they going to keep hushed up and blame the builder? i myself dont want to find out.


----------



## DSS (Dec 9, 2012)

The only real problem I see is the reverse taper in the squish, but that being said, joe homeowner isn't going to be pulling the base gasket to try for 200 psi, and you guys cut the squish band anyway, so.....

I still don't understand why its so much more work to port these. If the exhaust port is out of whack, so what? You grind it all out anyway. Does it really take that much more time to go another eighth of an inch?


----------



## Mad Professor (Dec 9, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> Tecomec's catalog doesn't include many newer models of saws. I've used Tecomec kits for 038 and 026 and they were excellent.
> Tecomec hasn't delved into anything newer than 1996.
> 
> TECOMEC



I agree that limited kits are a problem. But lots of early stihl and husky kits. They have also added separate piston and ring kits recently. 

If you can't afford OEM, and Tecomec is an option, I'd not look at Meteor.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> randy id say it will be running for a long time. kudos for you helping a fella out and theres not doubt that it is a strong saw to boot. but is it oem strong,probably not. if we could make people understand that they are not going to be oem strong without us as the builder being in question of ability fo getting the job done right id use them myself. but we know how that will go. if you send a few out and there not quite as strong as other work youve done are the owners going to own up to using aftermarket over oem? or are they going to keep hushed up and blame the builder? i myself dont want to find out.



I think I could have gotten a bit more out of it but didn't ever go back in. If anything was holding those back it would have been in the transfer tunnels. The newly revised jugs may be a bit better.....I've not seen the newest 460 kit though.


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 9, 2012)

DSS said:


> The only real problem I see is the reverse taper in the squish, but that being said, joe homeowner isn't going to be pulling the base gasket to try for 200 psi, and you guys cut the squish band anyway, so.....
> 
> I still don't understand why its so much more work to port these. If the exhaust port is out of whack, so what? You grind it all out anyway. Does it really take that much more time to go another eighth of an inch?



Sorry, that post was already ignored two pages ago. 



thomas1 said:


> How much more work are they? 10 minutes, 1 hour, 4 hours?
> 
> If you are cutting the squish band anyway, I don't see that much more time there. Is there a tremendous difference in the time to port one of these versus a OEM cylinder?


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> Sorry, that post was already ignored two pages ago.



I did spend a few minutes longer on a Meteor top end. That plating is really tough.....dulled my cutter on the squish cut and had to resharpen.


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I think I could have gotten a bit more out of it but didn't ever go back in. If anything was holding those back it would have been in the transfer tunnels. The newly revised jugs may be a bit better.....I've not seen the newest 460 kit though.



your absolutely right. the transfers are the weakest point. sometimes they are the weak point of a lot of port jobs too. it takes the whole package to make a solid performing saw.


----------



## DSS (Dec 9, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> Sorry, that post was already ignored two pages ago.



I know, but I thought someone might feel sorry for me and answer, due to the fact that I am a simple minded canadian living in an igloo. :msp_unsure:


----------



## BloodOnTheIce (Dec 9, 2012)

I've sold probably 30+ Meteor top end kits and and 100+ pistons to people online and haven't had anyone
come back gripe about them. There's a reason people are buying these and that's because they don't want to shell out
225$+ for OEM, if the quality isn't 100% of OEM, there's a reason for it.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> I've sold probably 30+ Meteor top end kits and and 100+ pistons and haven't had anyone come back gripping.



Well that says a lot. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## BloodOnTheIce (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Well that says a lot. :msp_thumbup:



I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement or they're perfect.
But if the quality was bad enough that there were performance or
reliability issues I would have gotten an ear full by now.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement or they're perfect.
> *But if the quality was bad enough that there were performance or
> reliability issues I would have gotten an ear full by now.*



Exactly.


----------



## logging22 (Dec 9, 2012)

Im not a builder. Never claimed to be. But this thread has some really good info. Thanks fellas.


----------



## DSS (Dec 9, 2012)

logging22 said:


> Im not a builder. Never claimed to be. But this thread has some really good info and quite a bit of BS. Thanks fellas.



fixed.

Hi Les.:byebye:


----------



## logging22 (Dec 9, 2012)

DSS said:


> fixed.
> 
> Hi Les.:byebye:



Thanks Chris. Your a true and dear friend.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

logging22 said:


> Thanks Chris. Your a true and dear friend.:hmm3grin2orange:



And a big teeted bovine......but at least he ain't a cat.


----------



## edisto (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'd like to see a poll, but don't seem to be able to add it to my thread. How many guys, paying $250 for a port job, would choose to save $100-$150 on a lesser quality cylinder.



That's where I get a little confused...

If the squish band is cut, and the ports hogged out, what are the remaining issues with the cylinder?


----------



## srcarr52 (Dec 9, 2012)

It looks like you'll end up cutting out all those horrible port bevels and be able to clean it up nice. The squish can be fixed quickly. So it all comes down to:

Is the plating of decent quality?
Is the bore straight and has the correct clearance?
Are the ports any bigger in any locations than what you'd want?
Will the casting hold its shape once heat cycled?
Will the extra time spent to fix the issues overcome the cost savings of the AM kit?


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

Terry, you nailed it on the head, saying it better than I could. I *will not *put my name on an AM cylinder, period. That's all there is to it. Most all of our builders here have weighed in, and all but one agrees with me. I ported my early 460 Meteor kit. It didn't have close to the power that the final OEM kit did. Even though that was a raffle saw being given away, I wasn't going to have my reputation on that cylinder. Could I have found what was limiting it? Sure. But why polish a turd and spend the time figuring out what's missing that shouldn't be.

I learned a long time ago, that the guy that speaks out gets all the flack. That's OK though. It is what it is. Good or bad, I'll speak the truth.

I've spoken my mind, and given my opinion. If your opinion differs from mine, fine. You're entitled to that. Just don't resort to childish games like stickying old threads


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Terry, you nailed it on the head, saying it better than I could. I *will not *put my name on an AM cylinder, period. That's all there is to it. Most all of our builders here have weighed in, and all but one agrees with me. I ported my early 460 Meteor kit. It didn't have close to the power that the final OEM kit did. Even though that was a raffle saw being given away, I wasn't going to have my reputation on that cylinder. Could I have found what was limiting it? Sure. But why polish a turd and spend the time figuring out what's missing that shouldn't be.
> 
> I learned a long time ago, that the guy that speaks out gets all the flack. That's OK though. It is what it is. Good or bad, I'll speak the truth.
> 
> I've spoken my mind, and given my opinion. If your opinion differs from mine, fine. You're entitled to that. Just don't resort to childish games like stickying old threads



Send me that 460 kit then.


----------



## roger m (Dec 9, 2012)

i have built several performance v8 engines over the last 26 years and the best performance and consistency has came from cnc ported cylinder heads,you would think that a big company like meteor or tecomec could afford a 5 axis cnc machine charge an extra $40 bucks and be 99% consistent and be second to none?just one of my crazy questions i ask myself


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

A few of Brad's threads.......

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/138006.htm

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/111699.htm

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/108918.htm

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/107414.htm

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/98537.htm

Why the double standard all at once?


----------



## edisto (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Terry, you nailed it on the head, saying it better than I could. I *will not *put my name on an AM cylinder, period. That's all there is to it.



A serious question: are there models of saws you won't work on because you had a crappy OEM jug?


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 9, 2012)

edisto said:


> A serious question: are there models of saws you won't work on because you had a crappy OEM jug?



Ms180.


Oops, that was the connecting rod.:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## albert (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Terry, you nailed it on the head, saying it better than I could. I *will not *put my name on an AM cylinder, period. That's all there is to it. Most all of our builders here have weighed in, and all but one agrees with me. I ported my early 460 Meteor kit. It didn't have close to the power that the final OEM kit did. Even though that was a raffle saw being given away, I wasn't going to have my reputation on that cylinder. Could I have found what was limiting it? Sure. But why polish a turd and spend the time figuring out what's missing that shouldn't be.
> 
> I learned a long time ago, that the guy that speaks out gets all the flack. That's OK though. It is what it is. Good or bad, I'll speak the truth.
> 
> I've spoken my mind, and given my opinion. If your opinion differs from mine, fine. You're entitled to that. Just don't resort to childish games like stickying old threads



Why did you start this thread if your not putting your name on AM cylinders? Sound like your mind was already made up. If you "speak the truth" then you show pics of old and new and said no improvement, then said different. Who's name is on all the ported bb bores and aftermarket cylinders you ported?


----------



## fastLeo151 (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Send me that 460 kit then.



Me thinks thats a great idea. Or just post some pictures and numbers of your finished jug.


----------



## albert (Dec 9, 2012)

Seems to me you need to run something for awhile as received, before calling it junk or trying to port it. That's just basic logic to evaluate something honestly. Someone did a evaluation on, I think, a bb ms361 kit a few years ago that seemed to like it despite of an out of round cylinder.


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> A few of Brad's threads.......
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/138006.htm
> 
> ...



Please tell me that you're not the one that stickied those threads. 

There's no double standard at all. Behind the scenes, I've given constructive criticism on AM kits for years. Meteor putting their name on this crap, and then seeing then pushed on the unsuspecting, was the straw that broke the camels back. You seem to think that I "have an agenda" or have "ulterior motives". What are you talking about?


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 9, 2012)

i won't port or work on any saw with a questionable cylinder no matter brand or model. i log for a living using a saw several hrs a day. i don't make a living messing with porting saws so i can afford to say no when it comes to working on a saw i don't want to work on. i have told many, many, many people to call other saw builders to port there saw becouse i will not work on a particular model. every saw that i port for others i have used and owned for myself at some time. i buy a saw and experiment on it till i find what i think is the best recipe for my style of porting. doesnt matter how many cylinders i ruin ,i keep on trying to find that just right combo.i will not offer my services to anyone for any saw that i dont have a firm grasp on what needs to be done. so i will not work on a cylinder that is not in my opinion up to par. whether it be oem or aftermarket. my rules of operation is by no means the rules other builders should go by. everyone has there line in the sand. mines just a little further up front than some others is. now i if or when i start working on saws for a living i will start to expand what i will and wont work on just becouse thats what a full time saw builder does. i work on old saws and homeowner saws all the time for friends and family so and am not a stranger to any model. i have been at this for nore than a few yrs. ive been logging since i was 12 or 13 and been fixing my own saws from the word go. so back to the question at hand yes i will tell someone the cylinder needs to be replaced before i will continue my work.


----------



## DSS (Dec 9, 2012)

There are currently 25 users browsing this thread. (24 members and 1 guests)

Now we cookin'.:msp_wink:


----------



## H 2 H (Dec 9, 2012)

opcorn:

:computer2:


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Please tell me that you're not the one that stickied those threads.
> 
> There's no double standard at all. Behind the scenes, I've given constructive criticism on AM kits. Meteor putting their name on this crap, and then seeing then pushed on the unsuspecting, was the straw that broke the camels back. You seem to think that I "have an agenda" or have "ulterior motives". What are you talking about?



Here's what I see. You posted two year old pics of a kit....made a blanket statement that they were all junk because of those pics (which I would bet were the worst you had in your files). 

Then you were sent a new kit to look at after you said you would give it a fair evaluation. When you received the kit you overly enlarged the pics to exaggerate the "defects" and then stated that this was no improvement at all. Which is a load of bull####. 

You also said you wouldn't waste your time installing this sorry kit.....but looking back through your posts shows you've installed must worse and crowed about how great it was. 

You've dropped a bunch in my eyes over this #### Brad.


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Dec 9, 2012)

WTF

izza:.....I'm having pizza for supper.....no...REALLY I am


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Dec 9, 2012)

Adirondackstihl said:


> WTF
> 
> izza:.....I'm having pizza for supper.....no...REALLY I am



I had pizza for supper too. Home made....by my mamma!


----------



## lone wolf (Dec 9, 2012)

Adirondackstihl said:


> WTF
> 
> izza:.....I'm having pizza for supper.....no...REALLY I am


From the pizza place or home made?


----------



## albert (Dec 9, 2012)

Who stickied this thread and put up a childish poll on it? To add insult, how can you expect and honest poll showing pics of old and new from different views, and enlargements, not degreeing or runnig the kit, flip flopping on improvements ect.


----------



## naturelover (Dec 9, 2012)

I had pizza for supper too!!!!! :msp_w00t:


----------



## lwn9186 (Dec 9, 2012)

I just got home from picking up a pizza also!


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Here's what I see. You posted two year old pics of a kit....made a blanket statement that they were all junk because of those pics (which I would bet were the worst you had in your files).
> 
> Then you were sent a new kit to look at after you said you would give it a fair evaluation. When you received the kit you overly enlarged the pics to exaggerate the "defects" and then stated that this was no improvement at all. Which is a load of bull####.
> 
> ...



I gave it the same review I gave the first ones. If they can't pass a visual inspection, why bother going any farther. I'm simply not interested in working with parts of this quality.

I've seen some great AM kits over the years and I've seen a lot of crap ones. The bottom line, is that you can't trust the quality in a AM cylinder. How many reports have you seen of failed AM topends, for any number of reasons. These cylinders come from the same source!!!

I'm REALLY sorry that you have chosen to make this personal. This had NOTHING to do with you or ANYONE or ANYTHING else, believe what you may.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 9, 2012)

Just wondering WHY this thread hasnt been sticked yet.


----------



## DSS (Dec 9, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just wondering WHY this thread hasnt been sticked yet.



Yo ass fell off.:msp_sad:


----------



## DSS (Dec 9, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just wondering WHY this thread hasnt been sticked yet.





DSS said:


> Yo ass fell off.:msp_sad:



Musta been aftermarket.:msp_sad:


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Please tell me that you're not the one that stickied those threads.
> 
> There's no double standard at all. Behind the scenes, I've given constructive criticism on AM kits for years. Meteor putting their name on this crap, and then seeing then pushed on the unsuspecting, was the straw that broke the camels back. You seem to think that I "have an agenda" or have "ulterior motives". What are you talking about?



So "behind the scenes" you told someone how bad they were, but in your public threads you said they were great? 

Seems kinda shady, dontcha think?


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Here's what I see. You posted two year old pics of a kit....made a blanket statement that they were all junk because of those pics (which I would bet were the worst you had in your files).
> 
> Then you were sent a new kit to look at after you said you would give it a fair evaluation. When you received the kit you overly enlarged the pics to exaggerate the "defects" and then stated that this was no improvement at all. Which is a load of bull####.
> 
> ...



Look at this post again and address it. Really.



blsnelling said:


> I gave it the same review I gave the first ones. If they can't pass a visual inspection, why bother going any farther. I'm simply not interested in working with parts of this quality.



The BB kit you installed from Baileys looked much worse and you said it was easily fixed? 



blsnelling said:


> I've seen some great AM kits over the years and I've seen a lot of crap ones. The bottom line, is that you can't trust the quality in a AM cylinder. How many reports have you seen of failed AM topends, for any number of reasons. These cylinders come from the same source!!!



Most fail because of the piston. I'm sure you know this as well as I do. 



blsnelling said:


> I'm REALLY sorry that you have chosen to make this personal. This had NOTHING to do with you or ANYONE or ANYTHING else, believe what you may.



I think it is personal. You are making that clear. 

When you said you saw no improvement in the two year old kit and the current one I knew without a doubt that you were not being honest. I don't know why you are doing this, but I'm stunned.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Dec 9, 2012)

I learned something from this thread...

We all a bunch of pizza eating mofos.


----------



## DSS (Dec 9, 2012)

Did I mention I'm having a great time here????

:haha:


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I think it is personal. You are making that clear.
> 
> When you said you saw no improvement in the two year old kit and the current one I knew without a doubt that you were not being honest. I don't know why you are doing this, but I'm stunned.



I already adressed that, Randy. Once you posted the pics side by side, there is an improvement. The bottom line is, they're still crap, IMHO.

Why does this have to be personal? I pointed out flaws in a product. I cam after no one. Now you're coming after me in a personal way. That's what I'm very upset about. Why do you think this is personal?


----------



## CATDIESEL (Dec 9, 2012)

could it be, someone here is not the person everyone here thought he was??????? now.......try to figure that one out. pizza on a sunday night is a great thing.


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

Randy, please turn on your phone. We need to talk. No cylinder kit is worth throwing a friendship away over!


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

CATDIESEL said:


> could it be someone here is not the person everyone here thought he was??????? now.......try to figure that one out.



Spill it.


----------



## russhd1997 (Dec 9, 2012)

In before lock. opcorn:


----------



## roncoinc (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I gave it the same review I gave the first ones. If they can't pass a visual inspection, why bother going any farther. I'm simply not interested in working with parts of this quality.
> 
> I've seen some great AM kits over the years and I've seen a lot of crap ones. The bottom line, is that you can't trust the quality in a AM cylinder. How many reports have you seen of failed AM topends, for any number of reasons. These cylinders come from the same source!!!
> 
> I'm REALLY sorry that you have chosen to make this personal. This had NOTHING to do with you or ANYONE or ANYTHING else, believe what you may.



Seems to me,,the only reason to choose an AM kit is to replace a failed OEM top end !! 

lets all go buy $300 top ends to put on a $200 saw !! yeh !! sounds like a good idea to me !!
then pay somebody $250 to port it ! yeh !! lets put $$550 into a $200 saw !! yeh !! good idea !!

I aint seen a saw yet worth paying somebody to install an OEM top end kit.. when you can buy a running saw for the same price and have a parts saw to boot !!


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

I think the whole thing is really kind of simple. The OEM are by and large better, period. The AM are by and large cheaper. Do you want the best available, or do you want the more cost effective?


----------



## Farmertim (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I think the whole thing is really kind of simple. The OEM are by and large better, period. The AM are by and large cheaper. Do you want the best available, or do you want the more cost effective?



nuff said!


----------



## Tzed250 (Dec 9, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> I learned something from this thread...
> 
> We all a bunch of pizza eating mofos.



It was homemade fried chicken for me tonight! Num num num...


----------



## GBD (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Here's what I see. You posted two year old pics of a kit....made a blanket statement that they were all junk because of those pics (which I would bet were the worst you had in your files).
> 
> Then you were sent a new kit to look at after you said you would give it a fair evaluation. When you received the kit you overly enlarged the pics to exaggerate the "defects" and then stated that this was no improvement at all. Which is a load of bull####.
> 
> ...



No bombshell!


----------



## Tzed250 (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I think the whole thing is really kind of simple. The OEM are by and large better, period. The AM are by and large cheaper. Do you want the best available, or do you want the more cost effective?



Pretty much the bottom line.


----------



## bucknfeller (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I think the whole thing is really kind of simple. The OEM are by and large better, period. The AM are by and large cheaper. Do you want the best available, or do you want the more cost effective?



That is NOT always the case. I bought an OEM cylinder for an 026 that looked like garbage, almost as bad as the one in Brad's 2 year old pics.
I just put a NWP kit on a 290 and it looked great. I really couldn't believe it didn't have any problems whatsoever. Not saying every one will be as nice, but you also can't say that every OEM kit you buy will be flawless.


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I think the whole thing is really kind of simple. The OEM are by and large better, period. The AM are by and large cheaper. Do you want the best available, or do you want the more cost effective?



That's all there is to it Nik. Why more is being made of this is beyond me!


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Dec 9, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> From the pizza place or home made?



Schwans.......still pretty good though


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Dec 9, 2012)




----------



## lone wolf (Dec 9, 2012)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Schwans.......still pretty good though



Good stuff huh?


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I already adressed that, Randy. Once you posted the pics side by side, there is an improvement. The bottom line is, they're still crap, IMHO.



But why did I have to drag that statement out of you by posting you own pics side by side? 



blsnelling said:


> Why does this have to be personal? I pointed out flaws in a product. I cam after no one. Now you're coming after me in a personal way. That's what I'm very upset about. Why do you think this is personal?



Well, let's just say you've pissed me off. Not an easy task. 

A true friend thinks before posting. I've done a lot of that today. 



blsnelling said:


> That's all there is to it Nik. Why more is being made of this is beyond me!



You were the one that started this ####storm. 



blsnelling said:


> I'm seeing more and more mention of the Meteor cylinder kits. I received a couple samples early on, and to be honest with you, I cringed everytime I see them mentioned. One was for a MS440 and the other for a MS460. Both were inferior, but one in particular was absolutely horrible. The port shapes are *very *irregular, as well as the beveling. I ported the better of these two, and it still didn't make power. I used the same numbers that make an OEM cylinder run very well. Unless drastic changes have been made, then I say buyer beware.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

There seems to be an idea floating around that there is some hidden agenda, or some kind of ulterial motive with my thread on these kits. Where that is coming from, I have no idea. I have asked, and been given no answer. I will give you a little history to help you understand me frustrations.

For several years now, I have been asked to review AM cylinder kits. I have been happy to do so. Some have been bad, some have been good. I have given constructive criticism and recommendations for improvement. *Over time*, I have become more and more frustrated with them. I would say that the 066BB has come the farthest. Yet we still read reports of kits getting out with free porting and the piston hitting the head:bang: 

So why did I single out Meteor to take the heat? I've always felt that I could trust Meteor pistons. Their reputation is excellent and the product as good as OEM. I expected far more from them, than for them to put their name on the same cylinders being used in the other AM kits. 

It's been said that I didn't give the new Meteor kit a fair evaluation, and that I did so on purpose. Perhaps it was not fair, but it certainly wasn't on purpose. I said that I saw no improvement. When put side by side, the imiprovement is obvious. However, the bottom line is that I still wouldn't use one. They're just not there. Thus, I overstated when I said that I saw no improvement.

I'm very surprised by the stance that so many of you have taken. I really thought that we as chainsaw enthusiast demanded more from out vendors. I guess I read that one wrong.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> There seems to be an idea floating around that there is some hidden agenda, or some kind of ulterial motive with my thread on these kits. Where that is coming from, I have no idea. I have asked, and been given no answer. I will give you a little history to help you understand me frustrations.
> 
> For several years now, I have been asked to review AM cylinder kits. I have been happy to do so. Some have been bad, some have been good. I have given constructive criticism and recommendations for improvement. *Over time*, I have become more and more frustrated with them. I would say that the 066BB has come the farthest. Yet we still read reports of kits getting out with free porting and the piston hitting the head:bang:
> 
> ...



It's your attitude Brad. You need a PR guy to edit your post and stuff.


----------



## indiansprings (Dec 9, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> Ms180.
> 
> 
> Oops, that was the connecting rod.:msp_rolleyes:



There is nothing wrong with the stamped rod used on the 170/180/211/231 etc, they are designed to withstand a lot more dynamic forces than the little engines will put out, never seen one damaged myself all you have to do is use the method that Stihl ask that you use on these saws, don't go hammering on them with an impact or use the rope trick, use a piston stop and you'll be just fine. Do the job taking short cuts and you can damage any of them.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 9, 2012)

Time for a build off!.......Brad if you can't re-work one of these cylinders and make them run decent......you need to get out of the business!......Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## GBD (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> There seems to be an idea floating around that there is some hidden agenda, or some kind of ulterial motive with my thread on these kits. Where that is coming from, I have no idea. I have asked, and been given no answer. I will give you a little history to help you understand me frustrations.
> 
> For several years now, I have been asked to review AM cylinder kits. I have been happy to do so. Some have been bad, some have been good. I have given constructive criticism and recommendations for improvement. *Over time*, I have become more and more frustrated with them. I would say that the 066BB has come the farthest. Yet we still read reports of kits getting out with free porting and the piston hitting the head:bang:
> 
> ...


IMO your modus operandi sticks your neck out, but you can`t see that, can you?


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

it was steak night here at the Tesla household. My lovely daughter, wife and my fat self enjoyed rib eye steaks while Andre elected to go with a t-bone. I used to like Andre, I'm not so sure now. While I was taking a crap, he was outside fondling my grill. I didn't like the way he put the grates on too early. I wondered why he would do that. Then it became very clear. He was intent on sabotaging my steaks. As long as Andyshine77 and I have been friends, we've debated cuts of steak. I prefer the clearly superior and manly rib-eye, Andre the girly tenderloin. Now the only thing I can think of is that he knew he lost the great steak debate (even though his t-bone actually had nicer marbling) and was intent on ruining all of our fun. That bastard.

btw, no cows related to DSS were consumed for this post


----------



## DSS (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> it was steak night here at the Tesla household. My lovely daughter, wife and my fat self enjoyed rib eye steaks while Andre elected to go with a t-bone. I used to like Andre, I'm not so sure now. While I was taking a crap, he was outside fondling my grill. I didn't like the way he put the grates on too early. I wondered why he would do that. Then it became very clear. He was intent on sabotaging my steaks. As long as Andyshine77 and I have been friends, we've debated cuts of steak. I prefer the clearly superior and manly rib-eye, Andre the girly tenderloin. Now the only thing I can think of is that he knew he lost the great steak debate (even though his t-bone actually had nicer marbling) and was intent on ruining all of our fun. That bastard.



plus bacon.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

I said earlier in this thread that I would bow out if it got ugly.......

Thanks Nik......I'm staying now. LMAO


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I said earlier in this thread that I would bow out if it got ugly.......
> 
> Thanks Nik......I'm staying now. LMAO



you can always count on me to pretty up a situation....:msp_wub:


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

DSS said:


> plus bacon.



beer and tits too.


----------



## Tzed250 (Dec 9, 2012)

Ribeye huh? I'll take mine heavily marbled, thick cut, and just passing into the medium rare zone. Cooked over a charcoal fire. Jeez Nik, now I'm hungry again!


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> you can always count on me to pretty up a situation....:msp_wub:



I'm craving a thick steak now. Porterhouse though.......girly tenderloin and ribeye all in one.


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Ribeye huh? I'll take mine heavily marbled, thick cut, and just passing into the medium rare zone. Cooked over a charcoal fire. Jeez Nik, now I'm hungry again!



that's how I like 'em (only I prefer them to be rare+)


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I really thought that we as chainsaw enthusiast demanded more from out vendors. I guess I read that one wrong.



We demand more from the builders, also. Looks like you were a bit off on that one, as well.


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm craving a thick steak now. Porterhouse though.......girly tenderloin and *strip* all in one.



fixed it for ya:wink2:


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> fixed it for ya:wink2:



Errr......yep you're right. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Errr......yep you're right. :msp_biggrin:



this isn't just a screen name you know :msp_biggrin:


----------



## DSS (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> it was steak night here at the Tesla household. My lovely daughter, wife and my fat self enjoyed rib eye steaks while Andre elected to go with a t-bone. I used to like Andre, I'm not so sure now. While I was taking a crap, he was outside fondling my grill. I didn't like the way he put the grates on too early. I wondered why he would do that. Then it became very clear. He was intent on sabotaging my steaks. As long as Andyshine77 and I have been friends, we've debated cuts of steak. I prefer the clearly superior and manly rib-eye, Andre the girly tenderloin. Now the only thing I can think of is that he knew he lost the great steak debate (even though his t-bone actually had nicer marbling) and was intent on ruining all of our fun. That bastard.
> 
> btw, no cows related to DSS were consumed for this post



So if I read this right, the moral of the story is never let Andre mess with your meat while you're taking a dump.



FATGUY said:


> beer and tits too.



We have a winner.


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

DSS said:


> So if I read this right, the moral of the story is never let Andre mess with your meat while you're taking a dump.
> 
> 
> 
> We have a winner.



truer (and sadder) words have never been spoken here, well played good Sir.


----------



## srcarr52 (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> that's how I like 'em (only I prefer them to be rare+)



I agree. I like my bovine warm but still bleeding on my plate.


----------



## hoeyrd2110 (Dec 9, 2012)

i think downing these kits is a step backwards IMHO, stating obvious applications and flaws and presenting as positive critizism is much better. remember a time when we had NO CHOICE but to buy OEM kits... alot of saws saw the scrap pile cause it just wasnt worth it most of the time. personally from the saws i've got my hands inside of. the best machined line(as a whole is dolmar, followed closely by jonsered). I for one am glad this chicom stuff exists. first off it gets guys with little$$ back up and going, or cheap parts for the tinkerer/modder. Second it shows which OEM saws are made with love and care and which arent. some AM kits are steps above the OEM's. My MS260 i pulled it apart today(will have pics in a new thread shortly) i was shocked at the total POS cylinder on the saw and it said STIHL on it, i honestly think an AM kit would be an upgrade for the saw if i wasn't gonna throw my hand in it at porting it.

Brad let me give you and example. As a SBC guy...and i;ve built more than my fair share. it's the same deal. should you buy the eagle balanced rotating kit from china for $650 and pop it in and go it'll handle 450hp and unless you put it in a torture chamber at a OEM place you wouldn't see the difference. Or go and buy the super light weight gun drilled knife edged hardened crank like i would(same feelings as you towards low quality stuff). or go and buy ProComp canadian heads at half the price and port em and still only flow 280cfm or buy the RHS heads and flow 312cfm out of the box but the castings alone are $1200.

My point is i admire your attention to detail, but i would walk alittle more softly...you can explain and express your opinion of things but you really can't try and make us all think like you do. not an insult towards you at all...just alittle insight of why some of us may be alittle put off ya know


----------



## cpr (Dec 9, 2012)

Yadda, yadda. Less than 2 week old venison burger as a pretext for tacos.

Wash with PBR.

Later, the plumbing might need porting, but for now, I is happy.

BTW, I like my tacos Meat-y-or else....

Cheers.


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Dec 9, 2012)

We just had 6 steaks tonight personally delivered from Hedgerow & his family this weekend. I WIN!!!! Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Tzed250 (Dec 9, 2012)

I've come to the conclusion that many folks on this site are bent. I include myself...


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Dec 9, 2012)

I like my Ribeye cooked Medium. No blood for me, just pink in the center. 

So, are aftermarket steaks getting better these days? I'm all about certified angus myself.


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 9, 2012)

cow,i like mine warm. oh,,,and i like pie too


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> I've come to the conclusion that many folks on this site are bent. I include myself...



Many are bent, some need to get bent.


----------



## edisto (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> that's how I like 'em (only I prefer them to be rare+)



Wipe its ass and walk it past an open flame.


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 9, 2012)

no hooves horns or tongue either,then slap it on a plate


----------



## edisto (Dec 9, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> no hooves horns or tongue either,then slap it on a plate



That's what she said...


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

hoeyrd2110 said:


> i think downing these kits is a step backwards IMHO, stating obvious applications and flaws and presenting as positive critizism is much better. remember a time when we had NO CHOICE but to buy OEM kits... alot of saws saw the scrap pile cause it just wasnt worth it most of the time. personally from the saws i've got my hands inside of. the best machined line(as a whole is dolmar, followed closely by jonsered). I for one am glad this chicom stuff exists. first off it gets guys with little$$ back up and going, or cheap parts for the tinkerer/modder. Second it shows which OEM saws are made with love and care and which arent. some AM kits are steps above the OEM's. My MS260 i pulled it apart today(will have pics in a new thread shortly) i was shocked at the total POS cylinder on the saw and it said STIHL on it, i honestly think an AM kit would be an upgrade for the saw if i wasn't gonna throw my hand in it at porting it.
> 
> Brad let me give you and example. As a SBC guy...and i;ve built more than my fair share. it's the same deal. should you buy the eagle balanced rotating kit from china for $650 and pop it in and go it'll handle 450hp and unless you put it in a torture chamber at a OEM place you wouldn't see the difference. Or go and buy the super light weight gun drilled knife edged hardened crank like i would(same feelings as you towards low quality stuff). or go and buy ProComp canadian heads at half the price and port em and still only flow 280cfm or buy the RHS heads and flow 312cfm out of the box but the castings alone are $1200.
> 
> *My point is i admire your attention to detail, but i would walk alittle more softly...you can explain and express your opinion of things but you really can't try and make us all think like you do. not an insult towards you at all...just alittle insight of why some of us may be alittle put off ya know*



That was an excellent post. Your last part was spot on and well taken I will try to heed that advice.


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 9, 2012)

tmi


----------



## DSS (Dec 9, 2012)

:too_sad:


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 9, 2012)

Now we're talkin'! Make mine a New York Strip, medium.


----------



## Wild Knight (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> it was steak night here at the Tesla household. My lovely daughter, wife and my fat self enjoyed rib eye steaks while Andre elected to go with a t-bone. I used to like Andre, I'm not so sure now. While I was taking a crap, he was outside fondling my grill. I didn't like the way he put the grates on too early. I wondered why he would do that. Then it became very clear. He was intent on sabotaging my steaks. As long as Andyshine77 and I have been friends, we've debated cuts of steak. I prefer the clearly superior and manly rib-eye, Andre the girly tenderloin. Now the only thing I can think of is that he knew he lost the great steak debate (even though his t-bone actually had nicer marbling) and was intent on ruining all of our fun. That bastard.
> 
> btw, no cows related to DSS were consumed for this post



Nik, you still don't get it. Why would you pay premium beef prices for steak that is half fat and grisel? There is no cut better than the filet, though a T-bone is the happiest medium. Listen to Andre; he knows a thing or two about meat....


----------



## Andyshine77 (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> it was steak night here at the Tesla household. My lovely daughter, wife and my fat self enjoyed rib eye steaks while Andre elected to go with a t-bone. I used to like Andre, I'm not so sure now. While I was taking a crap, he was outside fondling my grill. I didn't like the way he put the grates on too early. I wondered why he would do that. Then it became very clear. He was intent on sabotaging my steaks. As long as Andyshine77 and I have been friends, we've debated cuts of steak. I prefer the clearly superior and manly rib-eye, Andre the girly tenderloin. Now the only thing I can think of is that he knew he lost the great steak debate (even though his t-bone actually had nicer marbling) and was intent on ruining all of our fun. That bastard.
> 
> btw, no cows related to DSS were consumed for this post




Nik you no good fat bastard!! I saw you watching me the whole time, I was playing head games with you, and your meat all at the same time.:msp_scared: Poor Nik was going crazy watching me out there, it was like I was hitting on his wife or something, never come between a fat man and his food.:msp_wink:


----------



## barneyrb (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> you can always count on *me* to *pretty* up a situation....:msp_wub:




Man, there's two words I never thought I'd see in the same sentence.......Especially from Nik....come to think of it, may be a downright scary thought. I ain't laughing at ya but with ya....


:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

I feel both violated and traumatized...


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

Wild Knight said:


> Nik, you still don't get it. *Why would you pay premium beef prices for steak that is half fat and grisel? * There is no cut better than the filet, though a T-bone is the happiest medium. Listen to Andre; he knows a thing or two about meat....



because, unlike you and the so called meat expert, I'm not a little girl.


----------



## Wild Knight (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> because, unlike you and the so called meat expert, I'm not a little girl.



Look. I'll give you that you know a lot about pork, but you clearly don't understand beef.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm with Nik on the steak subject. Ain't no Filet gonna taste like a good Ribeye or T-bone cooked right. The Marbling and fat is where the flavor comes from. Thats why they wrap bacon around a filet; to give it some artificial flavor. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 9, 2012)

Wild Knight said:


> Look. I'll give you that you know a lot about pork, but you clearly don't understand beef.



I shudder to think of how many times you must have used that line....


----------



## Tzed250 (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I feel both violated and traumatized...



Several beers may alleviate that situation.



Anthony_Va. said:


> I'm with Nik on the steak subject. Ain't no Filet gonna taste like a good Ribeye or T-bone cooked right. The Marbling and fat is where the flavor comes from. Thats why they wrap bacon around a filet; to give it some artificial flavor. :msp_biggrin:




What you did there, I see it!


----------



## Wild Knight (Dec 9, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I shudder to think of how many times you must have used that line....



Come on now, you are the one who doles out advice about meat...


----------



## lmbrman (Dec 9, 2012)

read this whole thread and I must say, I want a steak


----------



## srcarr52 (Dec 9, 2012)

I want a nice fatty ribeye, where there are so many fat lines in it you can pull it apart with a fork. Mmmm! I'm salivating thinking about it.


----------



## gcdible1 (Dec 9, 2012)

*What I have learned...*

From life in general and this thread I have come to see different perspectives. There are a ton of great guys and gals here on AS, and I honestly havent met one member that wouldnt offer help or advice to a fellow member. That being said, opinions do differ, as well as approaches to life and porting saws. Well 4 some of you guys life IS porting saws.:msp_smile:

I always try to find the value in everything. What do I get for what I spend? That drives most of my decisions, cause I just aint made of money. Some things I skimp on to allow more for others. One thing I dont skimp on is getting my dollars worth. I dont want to pay for a pound of burger and only get 3/4 pound. Trust me, I have been jipped a time or two and it stings. If I could afford it I may choose to eat only certified angus beef. Since I cant, I resort to what my inlaws give us or we can afford at the store.

Some of us can afford and choose to pay for top of the line parts and service. Some cannot and go other directions. Its all about what is important to each of us. That happy medium between value and top notch items is a line most of us have to walk.

I really cant speak to the cost of some of these OEM and aftermarket kits. I dont know what they all cost, or what a repaired saw will be worth after putting one on. I cant justify even spending 100 plus dollars for an aftermarket engine on an 029 Stihl. If the saw was FREE -with labor added, most days of the week you will be lucky to get your money back out of the saw in the local market.

I am glad there are aftermarket options available for the local woodcutter who wants a saw running again for less than the cost of a new one. I DO NOT want to have to pay for it twice. Im guessing 99% of us would want a new OEM if they were similar in price. It is a more trusted and proven name brand part. If we are talking about a 066 or a 395 husky then it may be worth it to put more expensive parts on it- the saw new is over 1000 bucks.

I think what the general public wants is a lower cost option that is CONSISTENTLY WELL BUILT, RELIABLE, and lower priced enough that its worth SAVING money on. About the only way we will see this happen is if we TEST, offer input to these companies, and educate the saw owners on what flaws may exist in any product. Because flaws exist in every batch of product made.

Everyday people spend too much money on things they cant recoup the cost of. Most of the used ported saws for sale here people never get their port money back on when they sell them. Its a fact of life on anything you modify.

Both Brad and Randy are super fellas. They both have their reasons why they offer certain options to their customers. They are both experts in my opinion when it comes to saws and i would trust both of them to steer me in the right direction if they had my saw. Lets support these aftermarket companies, communicate with them on problems we may find, and most of all Support our Site Sponsors. Cause if we didnt have our friends on AS, we would be sitting at home #####in' to ourselves.


----------



## bryanr2 (Dec 9, 2012)

Man. I've read every post in both these threads. There's a lot to be gleaned from these threads and it doesn't necessarily have anythng to do with saws. Sure can learn a lot if you stay out of the debate and just read. I see the dollar value in the aftermarket kits for the average firewood hack. If one was going to be used in my saws, my money would be on Randy. He has never steered me wrong, if he says it- you can take it to the bank and cash it. I think Randy could get just as much if not more out of it than anyone else here. I am very confident in Randy's work and his R/D- enough that I have no need to try other builders even though that was recently suggested. You cant put a price on peace of mind, trust, or friendship.


And I like Ribeyes and Pecan Pie and Runny Eggs!


----------



## srcarr52 (Dec 9, 2012)

bryanr2 said:


> And I like Ribeyes and Pecan Pie and Runny Eggs!



Now there is a breakfast.


----------



## bryanr2 (Dec 9, 2012)

srcarr52 said:


> Now there is a breakfast.



that's a meal any time of day my friend!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Now we're talkin'! Make mine a New York Strip, medium.



Take that NY strip, butterfly it,hit it on the grill for 30 seconds, fill with fried oysters and blue cheese, tie it closed, grill just enough to melt the cheese, rest 10 minutes, cover with Hollendais and brown sauce. 

Serve with COLD beer and Syracuse Salt Potatoes.

You will need a cesarean to take a dump but well worth it. 

Read the whole thread. 

Turned out well enough. I'll buy Brad and Randy both a steak in February.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Dec 10, 2012)

I've been craving a steak for hours. I'm gonna have to go out and eat tomorrow evening.


----------



## watsonr (Dec 10, 2012)

2:45pm in Japan and I'm really hungry after all this talk of steak!! Dinner tonight.......Rib-eye, bone-in!! Squash with a little brown sugar. 





Breakfast, Jimmy Dean sausage with about 6 runny eggs and ice cold milk!





A cool refreshment before, during and after dinner!






While I read the rest of these threads I've missed!


----------



## bryanr2 (Dec 10, 2012)

bump


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 10, 2012)

bryanr2 said:


> bump



This should be a sticky.


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 10, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> This should be a sticky.



Imo, "locked" is a better idea!


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm gonna be stepping back from this mess.


----------



## H 2 H (Dec 10, 2012)

I miss all those "sticky" threads last night

Went out and had dinner and when I got home they were all gone :msp_angry:


----------



## bryanr2 (Dec 10, 2012)

why? it's no different than the other thread other than who the original poster was. i'd rather hang out in a Mastermind thread. no need for a captain america or any other super hero for the general populous of AS.otstir: we're all grown men, earn our money and can spend it how it best serves us. if i need an opinion on saws.... it comes to Randy thru pms. I respect what he says and place great value on our friendship.:msp_wink:


----------



## gcdible1 (Dec 10, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm gonna be stepping back from this mess.



It makes me LOL


----------



## bryanr2 (Dec 10, 2012)

There's a lot of life left in this thread yet. Of course it says something that the facts were presented, the case made, and we even had a little time for steak in this thread. There was no defending, restating, redirecting, or deflection needed here. Hell, couple pages back I even got a recipe for a steak dinner. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 10, 2012)

chainsaw


----------



## barneyrb (Dec 10, 2012)

Pie........either sweet tater or pecan as nothing is finer.....


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 10, 2012)

look over there is that wardrobe malfunction ,i see a boobie


----------



## spike60 (Dec 10, 2012)

How much do these Meteor kits actually sell for? Kind of wondering how much is really saved over OEM pricing. Compared to list, maybe a lot. Compared to some more reasonable pricing, there may not be enough savings to bother with the AM kits. I sell a 372XPW or 346NE kit for $200, so why mess with AM at that price. I do understand what Indiansprings and some guys are saying regarding giving customers an alternative besides an expensive rebuild and a brand new saw. I have done a few jobs where I've cleaned up a jug and used an aftermarket piston to keep the cost down and get someone going. And I've had much better luck cleaning a used jug than using a complete aftermarket kit. 

I think you need to look at the savings as a percentage of the complete project cost. A do it yourself guy can save a lot percentage wise. But add in the rebuild labor at a shop like mine, or the port work of any of you builders, plus shipping, and the percentage saved decreases; along with the liitle more risk that everything could be for nothing. Put another way, if you're going to have several hundred $ invested in the project, does it make sense to shave $100 by going with an aftermarket kit? 

I don't see anyone being right or wrong here. We all have a comfort level based on our own personal experiences. If you've had good luck with them, there's no reason not to continue to use them. If they haven't held up, you shy away.

In my personal experience using Forester and Mako kits, (likely the same thing), consistancy just wasn't there. In fact, it sucked. (The Meteor stuff may well be better.) Some are still going, and some went kaboom right away. So, I came to the conclusion that I don't want to mess with them anymore. I'm the one that has to stand behind them, and no matter what you tell the customer before hand, you still get the "you did it" look if something goes wrong. Plus, I don't like uncertainty, so why add it to the equation if it doesn't need to be there?


----------



## hoeyrd2110 (Dec 10, 2012)

Here is one for you guys. When these kits catch up or pass the OEM ones will you still refuse?. Problem with a lot of gruff towards the aftermarket kits starts wither the OEM's themselves putting a hurting on dealers who use them then it makes dealers tell customers they are junk so they can still make.even more money and make thier suppliers happier by using there parts. If they didn't charge a ridiculous amount and have an obscene markup on kits from them the aftermarket kits wouldn't exist. What about a "ported" as cast unit it won't be as good as a hand.ported one but a noticable difference to the regular user without having to send it out to be ported.


----------



## wyk (Dec 10, 2012)

My cat's name is 'mittens'.


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 10, 2012)

can you see the pretty mittens on the kittens


----------



## jus2fat (Dec 10, 2012)

I don't do very many piston/cylinder jobs - But when I do it's it's gonna be new or used Mahle 
or the customer takes the saw to another shop. I just won't do anything else. But that's just me.

I won't charge a customer $40 an hour to "clean-up" a crappy cylinder period.

I can get them used on eBay or chainsawr...sponsor here.
You might have to wait for a good one to come up..but so be it.

I just do neighborhood work soo..it's very important to me that what I service works well..
If you have a good reputation and something goes wrong...you probably still have a good reputation
If you get a bad reputation (and bad news travels fast) you gotta do a whole lotta good to get back..!!

Mahle is quality..and you pay for it..so be it - the exhaust on the Mahle is perfect..on the Meteor..well...

Meteor really could rule the aftermarket..just make consistent cylinders like they do their pistons.
Up the price if need be..it would still pay-off BIG and they would get more sales...

Meteor could absolutely OWN the aftermarket if they would just somehow match Mahle quality.
But they choose not to..??

J2F


----------



## dozerdan (Dec 10, 2012)

I like sprinkles on my ice cream


----------



## edisto (Dec 10, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> Meteor really could rule the aftermarket..just make consistent cylinders like they do their pistons.
> Up the price if need be..it would still pay-off BIG and they would get more sales...
> 
> Meteor could absolutely OWN the aftermarket if they would just somehow match Mahle quality.
> But they choose not to..??



They might own the AS market, but they'd lose the other 99.99% of their customers to the cheaper guys.

My guess is that they have accountants who have figured out that they can keep their price point competitive by producing "acceptable" cylinders, and that the costs of producing Mahle-like cylinders would put them into a competition with OEM that they won't win.

I could be wrong though...you should call and see if they are hiring.


----------



## edisto (Dec 10, 2012)

dozerdan said:


> I like sprinkles on my ice cream



I used to be able to sprinkle on my ice cream. Now I'm old...I'd have to put it on the floor and wait an unacceptably long period of time.


----------



## Scooterbum (Dec 10, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> I don't do very many piston/cylinder jobs - But when I do it's it's gonna be new or used Mahle
> or the customer takes the saw to another shop. I just won't do anything else. But that's just me.
> 
> I won't charge a customer $40 an hour to "clean-up" a crappy cylinder period.
> ...


*
My feelings are Meteor is getting their feet wet. If the market is there then they will get the R&D guys busy.
Producing top quality cylinders like that takes quite a bit of resources.*


----------



## Zombiechopper (Dec 10, 2012)

edisto said:


> I used to be able to sprinkle on my ice cream. Now I'm old...I'd have to put it on the floor and wait an unacceptably long period of time.



I'll give you my doctor's number. He even trims his finger nails first.


----------



## Justsaws (Dec 10, 2012)

spike60 said:


> How much do these Meteor kits actually sell for? Kind of wondering how much is really saved over OEM pricing. Compared to list, maybe a lot. Compared to some more reasonable pricing, there may not be enough savings to bother with the AM kits. I sell a 372XPW or 346NE kit for $200, so why mess with AM at that price. I do understand what Indiansprings and some guys are saying regarding giving customers an alternative besides an expensive rebuild and a brand new saw. I have done a few jobs where I've cleaned up a jug and used an aftermarket piston to keep the cost down and get someone going. And I've had much better luck cleaning a used jug than using a complete aftermarket kit.
> 
> I think you need to look at the savings as a percentage of the complete project cost. A do it yourself guy can save a lot percentage wise. But add in the rebuild labor at a shop like mine, or the port work of any of you builders, plus shipping, and the percentage saved decreases; along with the liitle more risk that everything could be for nothing. Put another way, if you're going to have several hundred $ invested in the project, does it make sense to shave $100 by going with an aftermarket kit?
> 
> ...



The last OEM P/C that I priced local were $250.00-400.00, 357, 372, 395 and a 3120. If people have dealers that will discount parts then that is great, most that I am aware of locally do not and will not in general. Not saying that it does not happen but if some customer walks in the door with a desire to purchase a 372 P/C it will be MSRP plus any shipping charges and tax. 

For some the Meteor kit is a better deal if they get all worried about the non meteor pistons. I do not. Most folks do not need to replace a P/C because it wore out but because they broke the saw, at that point a 100% difference maybe worth the effort, certainly in a sub $600.00 saw. How many of these aftermarket kits are going to end up in a saw that burns 20 gals of fuel a year?


----------



## Justsaws (Dec 10, 2012)

Scooterbum said:


> *
> My feelings are Meteor is getting their feet wet. If the market is there then they will get the R&D guys busy.
> Producing top quality cylinders like that takes quite a bit of resources.*



I would rather suspect that a distributor got tried of replacing kits from iffy pistons, rings and clips and sourced Meteor as a new line of kits since they could dump the main problems and still sell the more profitable cylinders while producing happy smiles for everyone involved.


----------



## edisto (Dec 10, 2012)

Zombiechopper said:


> I'll give you my doctor's number. He even trims his finger nails first.



That's because you're in Canada. Down here you need the expensive insurance plan to get that kind of treatment.


----------



## jus2fat (Dec 10, 2012)

edisto said:


> They might own the AS market, but they'd lose the other 99.99% of their customers to the cheaper guys.
> 
> My guess is that they have accountants who have figured out that they can keep their price point competitive by producing "acceptable" cylinders, and that the costs of producing Mahle-like cylinders would put them into a competition with OEM that they won't win.
> 
> *I could be wrong though...you should call and see if they are hiring.*


I guess I could be available as CEO for a few years..if the salary was right..!!..:msp_wink:

J2F


----------



## edisto (Dec 10, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> I guess I could be available as CEO for a few years..if the salary was right..!!..:msp_wink:
> 
> J2F



It always is...and it seems to go up if you tank the company, so stick with it long enough to get us some primo cylinders for next to nothing, and then pull the rip chord on your golden parachute.


----------



## Arbonaut (Dec 10, 2012)

Zombiechopper said:


> I want Gillardoni replacement cylinders. Now that would be something worth buying




I want Bugatti.


----------



## jus2fat (Dec 10, 2012)

edisto said:


> It always is...and it seems to go up if you tank the company, so stick with it long enough to get us some primo cylinders for next to nothing, and then pull the rip chord on your golden parachute.


Damn right on the "golden parachute"..!!!! - I wanna go out like Ken Lewis did at Bank of America..!!
You're very astute..!!!

J2F


----------



## Arbonaut (Dec 10, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> I'm with Nik on the steak subject. Ain't no Filet gonna taste like a good *Ribeye or T-bone cooked right.* The Marbling and fat is where the flavor comes from. Thats why they wrap bacon around a filet; to give it some artificial flavor. :msp_biggrin:



I didn't know you was suppose to cook it.


----------



## edisto (Dec 10, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> Damn right on the "golden parachute"..!!!! - I wanna go out like Ken Lewis did at Bank of America..!!
> You're very astute..!!!
> 
> J2F



Most people leave the "tute" part off...


----------



## Zombiechopper (Dec 10, 2012)

ribeye is the way to go. Fat is flavour. 

Now I'm hungry. Dangit.


----------



## huskydude (Dec 10, 2012)

I didnt read this whole thread as I couldnt do it after reading the other one. I am not a porter, but I take pride in what I do. I fix saws because I enjoy it and it keeps me busy during the crappy winter months.

My opinion is that if you need a top end, it is too easy to search around and find a good used factory cylinder. That is what I do, I look for a good oem jug and buy a meteor piston. I would rather spend 100 bux on a nice factory used jug (I'm certain I would find one cheaper though) and 35 on a new meteor piston. 

I just rebuilt a 350 husky and traded some parts for an OEM jug and slug and put a new caber ring in it. I felt good about the saw when I sold it knowing it was OEM.

If it is not possible to find a good OEM cylinder, than I can see buying a meteor one. But they still need a lot more work to be right based on what I have seen in these pictures.


----------



## indiansprings (Dec 10, 2012)

You might be able to find a cheap used cylinder for a cheap saw like the 350, but try finding a cheap used oem one for a 70cc+ pro saw, in our area we can't keep them on the shelf at half the price of a new oem. Most are 290.00 and up, I have to look them up for folks every week. Last week we sold a used 034 Super Mahle jug and slug for 170.00 and the buyer didn't even hesitate. He also carried out a new MS 362 to replace the 034. He straight gassed his late father's 034 Super, we quoted 450.00 to rebuild it with a new jug/slug base gasket and upper rod bearing. Since he bought the saw, and the used top end, he can come in and use one of our benches and I'll walk him through the process of repairing the saw at no charge. I'm sure it will mean more to him that "he" fixed his dad's saw, and I'll have a customer for life. You just gotta use old Tommy's tatics every once in a while, although we play country and bluegrass instead of Elvis and 80's Rock on Saturdays.lol


----------



## jus2fat (Dec 10, 2012)

Indiansprings....Just too cool..!

You let the customer..use your bench.. to repair his saw..and with instructions..

You're working at a "first class" dealership..for sure..!!

Tom is just..'da cheese"..all Stihl dealers should be like him..but most aren't..

J2F


----------



## dozerdan (Dec 11, 2012)

edisto said:


> I used to be able to sprinkle on my ice cream. Now I'm old...I'd have to put it on the floor and wait an unacceptably long period of time.



They have pills now that temporarily help that condition. It is my understanding that they now have those pills in AM but I have heard that the AM pills have a flow problem. It had something to do with small ports and not enough transfer.

Later
Dan


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

dozerdan said:


> They have pills now that temporarily help that condition. It is my understanding that they now have those pills in AM but I have heard that the AM pills have a flow problem. It had something to do with small ports and not enough transfer.
> 
> Later
> Dan


----------



## edisto (Dec 11, 2012)

dozerdan said:


> They have pills now that temporarily help that condition. It is my understanding that they now have those pills in AM but I have heard that the AM pills have a flow problem. It had something to do with small ports and not enough transfer.
> 
> Later
> Dan



They are just a little rough around the edges. Nothing you can't fix with a points file.


----------



## Outlaw5.0 (Dec 11, 2012)

Looks a a good budget cylinder kit after being inspected and possibly "fixed". With OEM 460 jug kits going for $400.00 and up at Stihl Dealerships, the market is there for sure.


----------



## mifirewoodguy (Dec 11, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> I don't do very many piston/cylinder jobs - But when I do it's it's gonna be new or used Mahle
> or the customer takes the saw to another shop. I just won't do anything else. But that's just me.
> 
> I won't charge a customer $40 an hour to "clean-up" a crappy cylinder period.
> ...



$40.00 bucks an hour????? damm Im workin way to cheap on these saws!


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

mifirewoodguy said:


> $40.00 bucks an hour????? damm Im workin way to cheap on these saws!



We don't even think about an hourly rate. No one can afford to pay me by the hour.......I'm just too damn slow. :msp_mellow:


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> We don't even think about an hourly rate. No one can afford to pay me by the hour.......I'm just too damn slow. :msp_mellow:



That's why raisin pie was invented.......


----------



## LowVolt (Dec 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> We don't even think about an hourly rate. No one can afford to pay me by the hour.......I'm just too damn slow. :msp_mellow:



Quality, not quantity is one of my favorite motto's.


----------



## DSS (Dec 11, 2012)




----------



## hoeyrd2110 (Dec 11, 2012)

+1 to flat rate. you win some you lose some, after a while you tend to win em. plus flat rate is just easier to explain to a customer vs time and materials when it comes to equip.


----------



## LowVolt (Dec 11, 2012)

:jawdrop:


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Dec 11, 2012)

DSS said:


>



Nope that sums it up. :jawdrop::sweat3:


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

DSS said:


>



Yeah.....stick that in yer aftermarket pipe and suck on it.


----------



## LowVolt (Dec 11, 2012)

Yeah, then what about this?!!!!!!!!


----------



## hoeyrd2110 (Dec 11, 2012)

LowVolt said:


> Yeah, then what about this?!!!!!!!!





2 against 1 that ain't fair....unless it's those two against me being the one...nope now that i think about it it's totally fair!:msp_thumbsup:


----------



## LowVolt (Dec 11, 2012)

Thumbs up to Randy, his pic! :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

LowVolt said:


> Thumbs up to Randy, his pic! :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## CR500 (Dec 11, 2012)

DSS said:


>



What is this thread about..... I like Italian jugs.


----------



## russhd1997 (Dec 12, 2012)

DSS said:


>



They look OEM to me! :msp_w00t:


----------



## stihl sawing (Dec 12, 2012)

Them Italian jugs are nice but there gonna cost you a whole lot more than the metal ones.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 12, 2012)

I wanna be breast fed now........is that wrong? :msp_mellow:


----------



## DSS (Dec 12, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I wanna be breast fed now........is that wrong? :msp_mellow:








hurry up before I change my mind...


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 12, 2012)

DSS said:


> hurry up before I change my mind...



:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 12, 2012)

Some people prefer the Big Bore Jugs.....not sure if these are OEM or AF!


----------



## Chris J. (Dec 12, 2012)

DSS said:


>



Careful now, some lonely impotent and frustrated prude might flag your post as inappropriate.


----------



## DSS (Dec 12, 2012)

Oh well. It wouldn't be the first time I've been inappropriate. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## almondgt (Dec 12, 2012)

DSS said:


>



Salivating all over my myself
MMMMMMmm strawberry milkshake YUM YUM
Oh, and I like 2 sexty two Meteor pistons too or two or to I'm all mixed up, that dang picture anyway......


----------



## Rudolf73 (Dec 12, 2012)

I see I checked back in at just the right time. 




Awesome pair of



right there.


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Dec 12, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I wanna be breast fed now........is that wrong? :msp_mellow:



Aren't you a little on the mature side (old):msp_tongue::msp_tongue: for that. Well you may be right. :help::help: they do look inviting.


----------



## wyk (Dec 13, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I wanna be breast fed now........is that wrong? :msp_mellow:



You're the moober! Can't you just breast feed yourself?!


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 13, 2012)

reindeer said:


> You're the moober! Can't you just breast feed yourself?!



As long as we have Italian jugs around I don't wanna breast feed myself. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## wyk (Dec 14, 2012)

I'm not letting this thread die so fast. Here are some images of the latest Husky BB kit I received:

Transfers - the lowers match the chassis fairly well. The rear upper transfers towards the exhaust side are a touch higher than the front pair; whether purposefully or not. The overall timing for most of these ports are a bit more aggressive than stock.






Exhaust:











Intake:


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 14, 2012)

Looks pretty good, other than the flat exhaust port roof. That's been my #1 complaint all along.


----------



## w8ye (Dec 14, 2012)

My complaint about these after market cylinders is . . . 

A couple posts up there a decent AM P&C assembly. 

Where'd it come from?

What brand is it?


----------



## lone wolf (Dec 14, 2012)

And how long do they run? Anyone out there run these on a daily basis at work? How long have they been working for you what results? I am wondering if the metals inside the bore are up to par and if the bore measurements are proper.


----------



## srcarr52 (Dec 14, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Looks pretty good, other than the flat exhaust port roof. That's been my #1 complaint all along.



It's probably not that flat... just the camera angle making it look that way.

My concern is the dark ring on the top of the bore. Can we get a better view of that ring of death?


----------



## Tzed250 (Dec 14, 2012)

srcarr52 said:


> It's probably not that flat... just the camera angle making it look that way.
> 
> My concern is the dark ring on the top of the bore. Can we get a better view of that ring of death?



Looks bad, I wouldn't want a piston ring anywhere near that.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 14, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Looks pretty good, other than the flat exhaust port roof. That's been my #1 complaint all along.





srcarr52 said:


> It's probably not that flat... just the camera angle making it look that way.



I agree. The bevel looks pretty good too.



srcarr52 said:


> My concern is the dark ring on the top of the bore. Can we get a better view of that ring of death?



It just looks like the bore isn't as polished at the very top. I have a 372 big bore here that I'll do a unbiased review of........

I've taken .090 out of the squish band of a Meteor 372 jug to see if there would be any problems.......I ran a tank thru it and it's now going on another member's saw for more testing. He has agreed to give us feedback on it whether it's good or bad.


----------



## wyk (Dec 14, 2012)

w8ye said:


> My complaint about these after market cylinders is . . .
> 
> A couple posts up there a decent AM P&C assembly.
> 
> ...



The one I posted is an aftermarket Chinese manufacture 52mm BB kit. It is not sold as a Meteor. I had it imported and dropped ship to Ireland last week direct from China. There are a couple of other threads on it here on AS posted by Aussie1. 

The exhaust on it is fine. The upper part of the cylinder feels fine. It's just a tad discolored. These kits have a lot of miles on them so far without any issues. They are monsters once ported. I'll just be cleaning it up some and maybe opening up the ports a tad and adding some timing. But it will be very mild. I don't need it to eat too much of our $8/gallon and $16 quart (non synth) fuel and oil.


----------



## Jimmy in NC (Dec 14, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> And how long do they run? Anyone out there run these on a daily basis at work? How long have they been working for you what results? I am wondering if the metals inside the bore are up to par and if the bore measurements are proper.



I run them on Concrete saws. My language barrier employees can't figure out to leave the air filter sealed and just bring it in when it won't run... it's in the Stihl manual that way. I put a Flyway brand plated cylinder on a TS420 this week. I installed it on the tail gate of my truck in just under 2 hours.. yes I've done more than I care to on these saws. They pull a 14" diamond wheel about 10 hrs of run time a week. I used ALL of the parts in the box including rings, wrist pin, etc. When it goes south.. I'll let you know but it starts, runs, pulls good so far. I even went for a gasket kit made in Taiwan. 

The last one went until it was straight gassed. In my case, $100 top ends are much cheaper than OEM that may not make it a week with lousy operators. The other main killer is hung open compression release. They run that way.. for a few minutes. I really should remove them all and install plugs but then they'd whine about hurting there shoulder or something. 

FWIW... I've run Ching Chong top ends on Makita and Stihl saws.


----------



## srcarr52 (Dec 14, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> It just looks like the bore isn't as polished at the very top. I have a 372 big bore here that I'll do a unbiased review of........
> 
> I've taken .090 out of the squish band of a Meteor 372 jug to see if there would be any problems.......I ran a tank thru it and it's now going on another member's saw for more testing. He has agreed to give us feedback on it whether it's good or bad.



Not polished would mean that it didn't get honed? So it's going to be a little tight then. I'm interested in your review, I'll be getting another BB kit soon and I wasn't all too impressed with the NWP kit. It runs well but I had issues with the material and plating.

0.090" wow... I accidentally got the exhaust port of a 288 a little high so I'm taking 0.070" out instead of the 0.040" that I wanted, 167 ex duration was going to be too much. I feel sorry for anyone who pulls that rope without hitting the blue button first.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 14, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Looks pretty good, other than the flat exhaust port roof. That's been my #1 complaint all along.



What the Hell!.....you can't put a sanding roll on the exhaust port????????


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 14, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> What the Hell!.....you can't put a sanding roll on the exhaust port????????



I need to send him an aftermarket sanding roll.


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 14, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> What the Hell!.....you can't put a sanding roll on the exhaust port????????



He could, but that wouldn't achieve his ultimate goal. 

Brad has said many times that he is doing this for the good of the community and that these substandard parts should not be foisted upon the unsuspecting masses. Brad is trying to help the world. Duh.

Anybody got a list of all the other media outlets where he's getting the word out? I go to lots of other sites and didn't see any mention of it? Hadn't seen those completed test results either, anybody got those? Curious, very curious.

Dennis, I wish you would keep your common sense and lack of nonsense out of these threads. They are much better when they are a big ego strokefest.

oop:


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 14, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I need to send him an aftermarket sanding roll.



Brad hasn't sold his soul and doesn't buy Walmart junk. I read it on the internets, it must be true.


----------



## DSS (Dec 14, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> Brad hasn't sold his soul and doesn't buy Walmart junk. I read it on the internets, it must be true.



Pull your skirt down. Your agenda is showing.


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 14, 2012)

Just reporting what I read. Maybe I misread?


----------



## Scooterbum (Dec 14, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> Just reporting what I read. Maybe I misread?



Hell it's gotta be true,I seen it in a "Sticky".:msp_w00t::msp_w00t::msp_w00t:


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 14, 2012)

Scooterbum said:


> Hell it's gotta be true,I seen it in a "Sticky".:msp_w00t::msp_w00t::msp_w00t:



I see what you did there.


----------



## DSS (Dec 14, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> Just reporting what I read. Maybe I misread?



Perhaps. Maybe we should get Genius to come over and explain things to you. Sometimes its hard to read between the lines of these threads, sometimes not so much.:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Andyshine77 (Dec 14, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> Just reporting what I read. Maybe I misread?



No you read what I typed just fine, and I stand behind it just the same, and I haven't been inside a Walmart in several years.


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Dec 14, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> No you read what I typed just fine, and I stand behind it just the same, and I haven't been inside a Walmart in several years.



Then where did you get that Poulan in your avatar! :msp_tongue:


----------



## Andyshine77 (Dec 14, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> Then where did you get that Poulan in your avatar! :msp_tongue:



Hahaha CL for 20 bucks.:msp_tongue:


----------



## MCW (Dec 14, 2012)

The kit that went to Santa's little helper, reindeer, came from me. There are a sh*tload of these kits out there, some in racing, some in professional situations, and many with homeowners. Never had a single problem with any of them. They are good to go straight out of the box although I have always supplied or recommended Caber rings.


----------



## MCW (Dec 14, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> And how long do they run? Anyone out there run these on a daily basis at work? How long have they been working for you what results? I am wondering if the metals inside the bore are up to par and if the bore measurements are proper.



These kits are speccing out fine and lasting. If you ever put them side to side with a standard run of the mill AM kit the difference in quality is apparent immediately.



srcarr52 said:


> My concern is the dark ring on the top of the bore. Can we get a better view of that ring of death?





Tzed250 said:


> Looks bad, I wouldn't want a piston ring anywhere near that.



I think a lot of people make this ring of death out to be a lot more serious than it really is. It is nowhere near the piston rings unless you do some serious machining. I also know of numerous AM kits that have had machining done and it has never caused a problem.


----------



## Jacob J. (Dec 14, 2012)

MCW said:


> I think a lot of people make this ring of death out to be a lot more serious than it really is. It is nowhere near the piston rings unless you do some serious machining. I also know of numerous AM kits that have had machining done and it has never caused a problem.



I have three Stihl-made MS-440 cylinders with the ring of death much worse than anything I've seen in an aftermarket cylinder. 

Just like in motorcycles/dirt bikes back in the 70's, the aftermarket parts are slowly catching up. I still remember when it was a joke to buy anything made in Japan, especially electronics. Now Japanese companies make some of the best electronic devices in the world. A search on ebay for vintage Nakamichi equipment shows a lot of that going for top dollar.


----------



## ZeroJunk (Dec 14, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> I have three Stihl-made MS-440 cylinders with the ring of death much worse than anything I've seen in an aftermarket cylinder.
> 
> Just like in motorcycles/dirt bikes back in the 70's, the aftermarket parts are slowly catching up. I still remember when it was a joke to buy anything made in Japan, especially electronics. Now Japanese companies make some of the best electronic devices in the world. A search on ebay for vintage Nakamichi equipment shows a lot of that going for top dollar.



Priced a Pioneer SX-1980 lately ?


----------



## Jacob J. (Dec 14, 2012)

ZeroJunk said:


> Priced a Pioneer SX-1980 lately ?



I have. A lot of the vintage Pioneer stuff is up there, along with Onkyo.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 15, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> I have three Stihl-made MS-440 cylinders with the ring of death much worse than anything I've seen in an aftermarket cylinder.
> 
> Just like in motorcycles/dirt bikes back in the 70's, the aftermarket parts are slowly catching up. I still remember when it was a joke to buy anything made in Japan, especially electronics. Now Japanese companies make some of the best electronic devices in the world. A search on ebay for vintage Nakamichi equipment shows a lot of that going for top dollar.



Yet topend stuff like MacIntosh that the Japanese buy, must have NO Japanese parts in it when restored.


----------



## Jacob J. (Dec 15, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Yet topend stuff like MacIntosh that the Japanese buy, must have NO Japanese parts in it when restored.



Is that for collectible desirability?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 15, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> Is that for collectible desirability?



Some of it sure. Along with snob factor. Same as anywhere. 

Look at optics. 



Stereo review rated the Bob Carvers Phase Linear 400 above Mac or Yamaha. 

Tuners in the Nachamichi decks were amazing. 

The 1000 was great. For a cassette deck. The Studer reel to reel were matchless.


----------



## ZeroJunk (Dec 15, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Yet topend stuff like MacIntosh that the Japanese buy, must have NO Japanese parts in it when restored.



Who makes parts in the U.S. anymore ?


----------



## casual cutter (Dec 15, 2012)

ZeroJunk said:


> Who makes parts in the U.S. anymore ?


The ones that do, you can probably count them on your right hand, and they're most likely in the process of moving production overseas also...


----------



## Tzed250 (Dec 15, 2012)

ZeroJunk said:


> Priced a Pioneer SX-1980 lately ?





Jacob J. said:


> I have. A lot of the vintage Pioneer stuff is up there, along with Onkyo.



My brother has a Pioneer SX-1980. He bought it brand new from the BX while stationed at Anderson AFB on Guam. He also has the pioneer HPM-1500 loudspeakers that were made at the same time, along with a set of JBL L-150s. The SX-1980 is an engineering masterpiece, and also beautiful to look at. I have never heard audio equipment crank as loud and clean as the setup my brother has.


----------



## CATDIESEL (Dec 15, 2012)

ZeroJunk said:


> Who makes parts in the U.S. anymore ?


meteor top-end kits??????:msp_w00t:


----------



## ZeroJunk (Dec 15, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> My brother has a Pioneer SX-1980. He bought it brand new from the BX while stationed at Anderson AFB on Guam. He also has the pioneer HPM-1500 loudspeakers that were made at the same time, along with a set of JBL L-150s. The SX-1980 is an engineering masterpiece, and also beautiful to look at. I have never heard audio equipment crank as loud and clean as the setup my brother has.



WOW ! If he ever has any problem with it send him to the AudioKarma website. There are a couple of guys over there on the Pioneer forum who know those inside and out as well as other models. I wouldn't take it to the local Joe's electronics and barbecue for anything.


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Dec 15, 2012)

CATDIESEL said:


> meteor top-end kits??????:msp_w00t:



well you tryed to get back on topic.


----------



## Tzed250 (Dec 15, 2012)

ZeroJunk said:


> WOW ! If he ever has any problem with it send him to the AudioKarma website. There are a couple of guys over there on the Pioneer forum who know those inside and out as well as other models. I wouldn't take it to the local Joe's electronics and barbecue for anything.



He has had to have a couple of issues resolved with it, but nothing major. I would love to know what a receiver with the specs and build quality of the 1980 would cost today.


----------



## ZeroJunk (Dec 15, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> He has had to have a couple of issues resolved with it, but nothing major. I would love to know what a receiver with the specs and build quality of the 1980 would cost today.



I have read some speculation about that. The whole package with detail in wood and metal. I doubt it will ever happen again.


----------



## Scooterbum (Dec 15, 2012)

To think I actually tossed an old SX1280.
Old Onkyo's were the shat!!
Would like to find a pair of JBL 4311's

And all the worthless tube equipment and tubes that were tossed................

I do still have a pair of Mac 2105's though.


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 15, 2012)

Bump.....

Chainsaw.


----------



## DSS (Dec 15, 2012)

:spam::spam:


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 15, 2012)

Yeah you win......


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 15, 2012)

boobie


----------



## LowVolt (Dec 15, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> boobie



Italian?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 15, 2012)

Scooterbum said:


> To think I actually tossed an old SX1280.
> Old Onkyo's were the shat!!
> Would like to find a pair of JBL 4311's
> 
> ...



Jeez Scoot. I had Bob Carvers Phase Linear 700B feeding into 4311s. 

PX in Germany. Wonderful sound.

Couldn't afford the Macs. 

The Dead used all tube amps.


----------



## edisto (Dec 15, 2012)

Scooterbum said:


> To think I actually tossed an old SX1280.
> Old Onkyo's were the shat!!
> Would like to find a pair of JBL 4311's
> 
> ...



The physics department at a place I used to work at threw out all of their old tube Heath stuff. I kept most of the tubes for myself, but I put 6 used Mullard tubes on eBay and they sold for $250.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Bump.....
> 
> Chainsaw.




I used to bridge the output to the Phase Linear 700B to make it Mono so I could arc weld with it........1400watts. ;-))


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah you win......



Yep agreed he got me with the pie. :msp_wink:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Dec 15, 2012)

DSS said:


> :spam::spam:



if you have any left ,id love a slice :msp_biggrin:


----------



## ZeroJunk (Dec 15, 2012)

Scooterbum said:


> To think I actually tossed an old SX1280.
> Old Onkyo's were the shat!!
> Would like to find a pair of JBL 4311's
> 
> ...



Not quite a 1280, but I bought a SX-1010 for $20 , spent another $15 rebuilding the power supply board and replacing the protection circuit driver and it sounds wonderful.

I listen to it working on chainsaws so it is on topic.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## barneyrb (Dec 15, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> boobie





LowVolt said:


> Italian?



You two know the rules, pics or it never happened.......

:extreme_sexy_girl::extreme_sexy_girl:


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 15, 2012)




----------



## DSS (Dec 15, 2012)

Only three letters in my name and you spelled it wrong dumbass.:rolleyes2:


----------



## DSS (Dec 22, 2012)

Randy killed this thread. Vile.:msp_mad:


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 22, 2012)

DSS said:


> Randy killed this thread. Vile.:msp_mad:



Yep!.....Randy's gettin a little weird.....but Brad is really getting strange!


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 22, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Yep!.....Randy's gettin a little weird.....but Brad is really getting strange!



Where did you get that picture of muh kin folks? :msp_mellow:


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

[video=youtube;QTAOgMqNYuE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTAOgMqNYuE[/video]


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 22, 2012)

not everybody likes us, but we drive some folks wild


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 22, 2012)

[video=youtube_share;wz5USGT0WRs]http://youtu.be/wz5USGT0WRs[/video]


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 22, 2012)

Hi Matt, Andre, Nate!


----------



## Andyshine77 (Dec 22, 2012)

Hi Nik.:alien2:


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

Apple pie and III 

[video=youtube;mfgLw617EXc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfgLw617EXc[/video]


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 22, 2012)

T-bones and New York Strips!!!


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 22, 2012)

I'd rep you if I could Kevin, I love Hank III. I make Andre listen to him every time we go on a roadtrip. (It's the Dubliners if we're in the shop)


----------



## Andyshine77 (Dec 22, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> T-bones and New York Strips!!!



Yes sir!!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 22, 2012)

Country music sucks worse than aftermarket hookers. :msp_sneaky:


----------



## Andyshine77 (Dec 22, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I'd rep you if I could Kevin, I love Hank III. I make Andre listen to it over and over and over on road trips. (It's the Dubliners if we're in the shop)



Fixed it for you.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## tlandrum (Dec 22, 2012)

rock on dude


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 22, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Country music sucks worse than aftermarket hookers. :msp_sneaky:



well, now, you see Randy, there's only two kinds of bj's, good and great....


----------



## Andyshine77 (Dec 22, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Country music sucks worse than aftermarket hookers. :msp_sneaky:



How do you know??:jawdrop:


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 22, 2012)

Hey Andre. 
Hey Nik, bar on the way. 
Hey Randy. 
Hey Brad, looking for an 041G bar. 

Out of work for 3 dam weeks. Kwap!!!


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 22, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Hey Andre.
> Hey Nik, bar on the way.
> Hey Randy.
> Hey Brad, looking for an 041G bar.
> ...



Hi Rob, thanks man, will be sending you a 72 dl back next week. I'm off till the 2nd


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

Just got to be in the right mind at the right time. 

[video=youtube;_rP2rofuqPE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rP2rofuqPE[/video]


----------



## Mastermind (Dec 22, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Hey Andre.
> Hey Nik, bar on the way.
> Hey Randy.
> Hey Brad, looking for an 041G bar.
> ...



Hi Rob.......you are taking it easy......Right???


----------



## DSS (Dec 22, 2012)

plus tits and beer


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 22, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Hi Rob.......you are taking it easy......Right???



No, he's not


----------



## Andyshine77 (Dec 22, 2012)

DSS said:


> plus tits and beer



Boobies and beer, yummy.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Metals406 (Dec 22, 2012)

*Hi Nik!!!*


This thread is weird. . .




Like this kind of weird.





.







.






.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

Hint in here how to get your mind right. 

[video=youtube;2IumNz3-8FU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IumNz3-8FU[/video]


----------



## Metals406 (Dec 22, 2012)

Ooops!! Sorry, I meant THIS kind of weird.







.







.






.





.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

Live and if you dont like it you all can just kiss my ( ! ) :jester: Just having fun all enjoying 5 days off for Christmas. 

[video=youtube;HEYzZU1Mf-k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEYzZU1Mf-k[/video]


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 22, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> Hi Rob, thanks man, will be sending you a 72 dl back next week. I'm off till the 2nd



No hurry Kahuna. The Total was the only new one I had. 

Any other ya need???

"Called Us Names!"


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 22, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> No hurry Kahuna. The Total was the only new one I had.
> 
> Any other ya need???
> 
> "Called Us Names!"



tryin' to listen to the f#*ken song!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 22, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Hi Rob.......you are taking it easy......Right???



Hey Randy. Can't do much. Walk like Quasimoto.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 22, 2012)

Too many Steaks, Burgers, Beers, for this guy!


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> tryin' to listen to the f#*ken song!



 LMAO I'm only 15mins into the live concert and half a jar of apple pie.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

Dennis dang you


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 22, 2012)

that photo was meant for your eyes only Cahoon. I thought what happens in Dennis stays in Dennis....


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 22, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Dennis dang you



Screw those steaks Kevin!......Whiskey in a dirty glass for me!


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Screw those steaks Kevin!......Whiskey in a dirty glass for me!



Not really whiskey but would this do  I'm impressed when I spell something right without spell check right now.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 22, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Too many Steaks, Burgers, Beers, for this guy!



This guy's pet name for Dennis is "Bunk Muffin"


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 22, 2012)

I wasn't gonna kiss and tell but he brought it out of me ( a few times, actually)


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 22, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Some people prefer the Big Bore Jugs.....not sure if these are OEM or AF!



I'm not a fan of "big-bore", when it means fake....:bang::bang:


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> I'm not a fan of "big-bore", when it means fake....:bang::bang:



Didnt see that in this thread heck nothing wrong with a big bore and stroked IMO.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 22, 2012)

fatguy said:


> i wasn't gonna kiss and tell but he brought it out of me ( a few times, actually)



yikes!


----------



## Andyshine77 (Dec 22, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> yikes!



Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 22, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> I'm not a fan of "big-bore", when it means fake....:bang::bang:



Nothing fake about this stuff Trolly!......Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

So Dennis how did the hotsaws do this year? I know the carbon fiber one was doing good from the get go.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

46mins in concert and he says I'm getting ready to get loud. HeII I might not make it


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 22, 2012)

Still winning!......here's a saw going out Monday to some lucky STS guy from WV.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

Wonder what ole John is doing up in the Yukon


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 22, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Wonder what ole John is doing up in the Yukon



I'm sure he's drunker than 10,000 Indians right now!......Hahahahahahahaha!


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Still winning!......here's a saw going out Monday to some lucky STS guy from WV.



I just could NOT imagine trying to operate one of those.  to you as builder and to those that operate them


----------



## jughead500 (Dec 22, 2012)

OK lets get back on track Here.
JJ you missed my favorite one. I Usually can't get through a full Hank III CD without gettin' Blistered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA97-ecJj8A


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 22, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> I'm sure he's drunk than 10,000 Indians right now!......Hahahahahahahaha!



He was hitting on the hotdog lady in Chardon  Lot of fun.


----------



## Guido Salvage (Dec 22, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Wonder what ole John is doing up in the Yukon



Freezing...


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 22, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Wonder what ole John is doing up in the Yukon



Hopefully not having another large branch hit his scull!


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 23, 2012)

Guido Salvage said:


> Freezing...



For some reason I doubt that!


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 23, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Nothing fake about this stuff Trolly!......Hahahahahahaha!



No, why should there be?


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 23, 2012)

20mins to go.  Need to stop  got 2 football games to watch tomorrow. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 23, 2012)

*here's one more for ya*

[video=youtube_share;dRKgZWm8hBg]http://youtu.be/dRKgZWm8hBg[/video]


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 23, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> 20mins to go.  Need to stop  got 2 football games to watch tomorrow. :hmm3grin2orange:



Night Cap!.......Hahahahahahahaha!


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 23, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Night Cap!.......Hahahahahahahaha!




Sipping most of the day  Copper Moonshine Stills & Moonshine Still Kits


----------



## edisto (Dec 23, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> tryin' to listen to the f#*ken song!



Please tell me that was a Hanson brother!


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 23, 2012)

edisto said:


> Please tell me that was a Hanson brother!



puttin' on the foil coach!


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 23, 2012)

[video=youtube_share;5i_D6oQO6b8]http://youtu.be/5i_D6oQO6b8[/video]


----------



## Yukon Stihl (Dec 23, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Wonder what ole John is doing up in the Yukon



Hi Guys
Seen John a few days ago,his truck was froze up,- 40 here.Last time i seen his new cabin he was about 5 rounds high.He just keeps sawing and plugging away.
Thomas


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 23, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> [video=youtube_share;5i_D6oQO6b8]http://youtu.be/5i_D6oQO6b8[/video]



Never tire of that movie.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 23, 2012)

Yukon Stihl said:


> Hi Guys
> Seen John a few days ago,his truck was froze up,- 40 here.Last time i seen his new cabin he was about 5 rounds high.He just keeps sawing and plugging away.
> Thomas



Thanks for the update.


----------



## Tzed250 (Dec 23, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> [video=youtube_share;5i_D6oQO6b8]http://youtu.be/5i_D6oQO6b8[/video]



They brought their #%$~ing toys with them!!!!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Dec 23, 2012)

"Called us Names!!!!!"


----------



## naturelover (Dec 23, 2012)

I wish the lockout would end....


----------



## thomas1 (Jan 12, 2013)

Update. Taken from here: http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/221513.htm




blsnelling said:


> I finally got a chance to make this topend comparison that I promised a few weeks ago. The test mule was my Dad's early 1st month production 046. It's always been a fantastic runner. The saw is all original and stock, with the exception of a MM mod. The DP muffler cover is even original. First of all, the numbers.
> 
> *OEM Mahle*
> Exhaust - 103°
> ...


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 12, 2013)

Please make all additional comments in the new thread, http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/221513.htm.


----------



## Eccentric (Jan 12, 2013)

*I still like pie.*


----------

