# Just wondering



## Lonnie (Jan 12, 2007)

I seen this tree that was done by the city . Im wondering would u leave this tree like this?I know I wouldn't..... It is a white pine not a good tree to be leaving like this ... Least thats what I think...I think the city figgered out how to be the hackers and yes i know I said hackers but this is a hack job in my books.


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## Treeman67 (Jan 12, 2007)

Lonnie said:


> I seen this tree that was done by the city . Im wondering would u leave this tree like this?I know I wouldn't..... It is a white pine not a good tree to be leaving like this ... Least thats what I think...I think the city figgered out how to be the hackers and yes i know I said hackers but this is a hack job in my books.



that is hack job, i can't believe what they done this tree, now it hazardous tree, the topped can broken off any day of wind storn come through..

Treeman67


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2007)

Treeman67 said:


> that is hack job, i can't believe what they done this tree, now it hazardous tree, the topped can broken off any day of wind storn come through..
> 
> Treeman67



look at those stubs:jawdrop: screw the world save some money trash the trees. what a shame. that is a crime any1 can cut a tree y would i hire a certified reputable tree company when i can pay 50 bucks to a cutter company 2 do the same thing. maby its lack of knowledge but i think its to save money. im not sure but its a real shame. what about the environment & safety? people just dont give a chit. i think the federal government should step in and make some strict law with major fines and jail time 4 unnecessary destruction of mother nature. i think it should be a mandatory license to trim permit to remove. with the cost of proper tree care/work there should be some kind of federal funding 2 qualified people like welfare. we can call it treefare


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## EngineerDude (Jan 13, 2007)

(WLL) said:


> i think the federal government should step in and make some strict law with major fines and jail time 4 unnecessary destruction of mother nature. i think it should be a mandatory license to trim permit to remove. with the cost of proper tree care/work there should be some kind of federal funding 2 qualified people like welfare. we can call it treefare



Hack job - Yes. "What a shame" - Yes

But let's be real careful wishing for more federal laws, programs, etc. (Falls into the category of be careful what you wish for, you might get it!)

I, for one, feel that we have more than enough federal interference in our lives. Do we really want a law to address this, crafted by Congressmen and Senators who: #1 probably don't really give a rat's you-know-what for the issue anyway, and #2 are so far removed from the real world that whatever they'd craft would be flawed and unworkable anyway? Ooh, and another federal assistance program crafted and administered by bureaucrats; it sends shivers up my spine!

Not sure what the answer is, but my vote is that this ain't it. Here's a thought. Maybe organize a grassroots educational campaign aimed at local governments, with education provided by certified arbos. Education would include details of how to do it right, and the consequences of doing it wrong.


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## Lonnie (Jan 13, 2007)

I thinks the person who was cutting this tree got scared ....Im not sure if it can be seen but the rest of the tree is over 34.5' power lines m but still one should say they can not do a tree if they feel they caan not do a tree..,I myself knows when to call off the dogs before i go in one... I would have told the people I could not do it if thats all i could was 1/2 of it ...I know where some more that was done even worst then thos tree..I have seen a big sliver maple that was in a yard...The hackers cut off all the easy limbs on the back side of the house..Leaving the one bigger one leaning over the house.They cut the limbs i would have used to cut the limbs they left..So yeah hackers are every where ...


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## The Climber (Jan 13, 2007)

If that pine was crowded in a natural stand of pines mother nature herself would have trimmed it much the same because the bottom 2/3rd's would have been shaded out, but it sure looks like hell out in the open like that. It is a terrible advertisment for whoever did it.


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## Sprig (Jan 13, 2007)

The Climber said:


> If that pine was crowded in a natural stand of pines mother nature herself would have trimmed it much the same because the bottom 2/3rd's would have been shaded out, but it sure looks like hell out in the open like that. It is a terrible advertisment for whoever did it.


Yup, looks pretty much like the pines around here only without the dead branches. I'm guessing they removed the dead branches so they don't be falling on cars, people, the powerlines etc. etc.. Barring high winds it'll survive for a while I think, tis rather lonely lookin' though


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## Lonnie (Jan 13, 2007)

NOpe all the limbs was in great shape.... Im not sure why they did it.. I know i would not have done it like dat at all.


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## pbtree (Jan 14, 2007)

Wowsers - not sure what else to say... Hackmo from the work go...


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## Bermie (Jan 14, 2007)

The Climber said:


> If that pine was crowded in a natural stand of pines mother nature herself would have trimmed it much the same because the bottom 2/3rd's would have been shaded out, but it sure looks like hell out in the open like that. It is a terrible advertisment for whoever did it.





Sprig said:


> Yup, looks pretty much like the pines around here only without the dead branches. I'm guessing they removed the dead branches so they don't be falling on cars, people, the powerlines etc. etc.. Barring high winds it'll survive for a while I think, tis rather lonely lookin' though



Fair enough if the tree had developed in a natural crowded location BUT this one is way out in the open on its own.
The lower branches would have helped to absorb and distribute wind loading all along the stem, the tree would have developed reaction wood to deal with its location.
By removing all those lower limbs they have drastically altered the sway dynamics and loading of that tree. It is now dangerous as any wind will catch the top of it creating a 'hard point' just below whats left. Mild wind might be ok but I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it in anything over 20knots!
Like someone said, maybe they crapped out, regardless that thing need to come down now!


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## treeseer (Jan 14, 2007)

Giraffe Pruning.

Raising Cain--Be your Branches' Keepers!

How to Turn an Asset into a Liability.

Looks like some of the work our county crews do. They get lots of power toys/tools to play with, but refuse to get trained in the ways of tree care.
The results are a rela horro show.


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## Lonnie (Jan 14, 2007)

Yeah Im seeing the same thing here.... They are putting in a new dsl line round the hugh way here and they hacked the heck out of lots of trees alone side of the road.I can't see why they would do it...They are working out of a bucket truck and would be easier to do thing right with one those, I would think. Im seeing tree with no tops in them at all just left to die.Some i know will make it but would take years for them to look right, some i dout will make it just cut to hard...I think if some one cutting back tree's they need to cut them back 3/1( take a three inch limb cut it back to 1 inch) same with yard trees.Doesn't take as long to look good a agin.


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## fishhuntcutwood (Jan 14, 2007)

Am I the only one here who sees this as a typical ROW clearance and not a hack job? I just scanned down through this thread, but I didn't see where anyone addressed that, though treeseer touched on it. Most ROW jobs are done by regular city/county/state employees. Not that they're idiots, but they're not arborists. They cut trees for powerline clearance, not for aesthetics or longevity. It's the same way they have those helicopter saws that just thrash everything in their path. They're just cutting trees down away from powerlines. It doesn't make it any prettier, but that's just a fact of life, and you can't fault them for it. They aren't doing hack jobs, they're just doing their jobs. They probably went and filled in some pot holes after they were done with this tree. 

Now if this was done by a professional arbo, well then yeah, it looks pretty crappy.

Jeff


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## Lonnie (Jan 14, 2007)

I trimmed trees for powerlines and side balling a tree is not the same as what they did with the pine in the pic . I always tried even on the power line to cut them back 3/1 instead of cutting the hole limb out.I know they are doing thier job and i do under stand with what you are saying.The trees they are cutting the tops out of and ever limb on them and leaving stand beside the road thats just not right ...Im wondering why they would even cut them that way blow the dsl line and leaving the trunk bare like it is..I mean it is just one more cut what not even 5 mins? Just shows me that some co or cities or even state doesn't not care what they do but when home owners does it.. Real bugs me but yeah you are right I guess.When the tree breaks and i bet it does they will be paying more for the lines, cables, and what ever it takes when it goes....It almost make me wanna go finsh it myself lol I have to drive by the dang thing everytime i go to work.


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## fishhuntcutwood (Jan 15, 2007)

Well like I said, they probably also filled in some potholes, painted some guardrails and fixed a street light in the same day. They gave a guy a saw and told him to do it. It was work order #38, and they had to get it done before COB that day. I know it sucks, but until the city contracts to pros, it's the way it'll be.


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## Ekka (Jan 15, 2007)

treeseer said:


> Giraffe Pruning.
> Looks like some of the work our county crews do. They get lots of power toys/tools to play with, but refuse to get trained in the ways of tree care.
> The results are a rela horro show.



CRIKEY!

Pics please.

Lonnie, more pics please, and please post the details of the town, street county etc .... time to raise the stakes some. Talk is cheap you know. Blood is better.


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## antigrassguy (Jan 15, 2007)

Looks like they ran outta bucket. The tree looks to be on a burm of sorts and higher than the road. They cut every branch they could reach and still had 30' plus above 'em so they called it a day. Cant get the truck to it and no climbers, soo.......


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## Lonnie (Jan 15, 2007)

I will get more pics of the tree asap... the pine wasn't done with a bucket. the other i have seen was....They cut the others down below the power line and left the leeds of the tree stand


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## asiegler04 (Jan 23, 2007)

If there was ever a hack job example this would be the one. SHAME SHAME SHAME on that city. Top heavy is a bad thing just wait for the next gust of wind they will find out.


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## treevet (Jan 23, 2007)

Tree looks like it would be an easy slammer into that parking lot after moving some cars, shooting a bean bag into the top and sending a rope up. That s all it is good for now Lonnie. Prob contact the town and get the inside track on that job.


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## OTG BOSTON (Jan 24, 2007)

*so many experts.................*

Threads like this really crack me up. I find it amusing when people think that they know everything about a subject when in reality they know very little. Everybody wants to jump on the trash-the-municipality bandwagon. Point fingers, assign blame, and stand on a soapbox condemning all tree work done by the Cities and towns that we live in. 

In my experience it is actually power companies who are doing this type of work, not municipalities. These are for profit companies that get paid to keep the power on, therefore trees have to go. Simple.

Its easy to sit at a keyboard and spout off about how you think the world should be, Its a totally different thing to actually do something to make a difference.

Don't get me wrong, its cool to ask the questions, its just not cool to point fingers untill you have the full story.


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## asiegler04 (Jan 24, 2007)

I usally don't blame power companies b/c most of the are ceterified.


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## OTG BOSTON (Jan 24, 2007)

*??????????????*



asiegler04 said:


> I usally don't blame power companies b/c most of the are ceterified.



Are you saying that the guys in your area who work for the power companies are certified arboroists???


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## Lonnie (Jan 24, 2007)

OTG BOSTON said:


> Threads like this really crack me up. I find it amusing when people think that they know everything about a subject when in reality they know very little. Everybody wants to jump on the trash-the-municipality bandwagon. Point fingers, assign blame, and stand on a soapbox condemning all tree work done by the Cities and towns that we live in.
> 
> In my experience it is actually power companies who are doing this type of work, not municipalities. These are for profit companies that get paid to keep the power on, therefore trees have to go. Simple.
> 
> ...


 The city that has the tree owns the power co.....I am was trained by a power co and i never ever had to cut a tree like this one...Im not sure what the plan was with it but im telling u this one will not work...A top heavy white pine out in the middle of no where is goin gto come down....Just a matter of time...WE all know the limbs they took off the tree will never come back and the top is going to be getting bigger and bigger.....I admitt IM not as good as most the guys on here nore do i clam to be.....I do how ever know some things and this one for me is a no noooooo......


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## derbyguy_78 (Jan 24, 2007)

*definite hack job*

what the? geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez


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## OTG BOSTON (Jan 25, 2007)

*agreed*



Lonnie said:


> The city that has the tree owns the power co.....I am was trained by a power co and i never ever had to cut a tree like this one...Im not sure what the plan was with it but im telling u this one will not work...A top heavy white pine out in the middle of no where is goin gto come down....Just a matter of time...WE all know the limbs they took off the tree will never come back and the top is going to be getting bigger and bigger.....I admitt IM not as good as most the guys on here nore do i clam to be.....I do how ever know some things and this one for me is a no noooooo......



I agree that it is a hack job, no question. And now you're giving us more of the story. So who can answer your question as to why????


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## Lonnie (Jan 25, 2007)

OTG BOSTON said:


> I agree that it is a hack job, no question. And now you're giving us more of the story. So who can answer your question as to why????



IM not sure who is the mayor there now but im going to fine out...Then Im going to warn him about the tree....I think they sub contract to a tree co. out of town...Not sure but i will fine out and warn them bout the tree..IT will cost them more money then it would to fix the power line tranformers phone line tv line...lest goes on and on lol That part of the town has the most houses in it as well...Maybe with some luck I will get to finish what that started ....Lol only good thing bout them starting the stopping is half the word is done..LOL


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## Davey Dog (Jan 25, 2007)

Yeah it does look like a typical row clearance.... It doesnt make it right and I agree it is a typical utility HACK JOB.... I will see if I can snap some pics of the local trees around here... Same type of work.... It makes me sick.
Big notches cut out of the canopies and what not... This is a licensed company too.... I think people that do this type of work should be fined.
I dont care who they are or who they work for... It makes us all look like DONKEYS...... 

*****I am sorry if I have affended anyone, but My Opinion is My Opinion and it wont likely change........


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## Davey Dog (Jan 25, 2007)

OTG BOSTON said:


> Are you saying that the guys in your area who work for the power companies are certified arboroists???



Yeah I am saying that Davey has certified arborists who list the trees that need to be HACKED up for PG&E..... Those are our local companies, But I would bet dollars to Doughnuts that it is the same way elsewhere......


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## OTG BOSTON (Jan 26, 2007)

*not the same*



Davey Dog said:


> Yeah I am saying that Davey has certified arborists who list the trees that need to be HACKED up for PG&E..... Those are our local companies, But I would bet dollars to Doughnuts that it is the same way elsewhere......




Maybe the work is reccommended or scheduled by CA's but probably done by less skilled individuals (obviously less skilled in this case). I am sure that there are specifications for proper pruning procedures, whether or not they are followed is an entirely diferent subject.................

I recently attended a lecture/panel discussion with our local power companies. I found it very informative and kind of interesting. We all want our power to stay on but many people get upset when lines are cleared to help keep the power on. Truth of the matter is trees should not be planted anywhere near power lines, but people do anyway. Trimming is a compromise to removing all of the treees that should be removed to keep the power on.

A figure that stands out in my head from the lecture I went to. If the power companies were to remove all of the trees deemed hazardous near there lines in Mass. they would be looking at spending ove 74 million dollars . Now thats a contract I'd like to get!


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## Davey Dog (Jan 27, 2007)

OTG BOSTON said:


> Maybe the work is reccommended or scheduled by CA's but probably done by less skilled individuals (obviously less skilled in this case). I am sure that there are specifications for proper pruning procedures, whether or not they are followed is an entirely diferent subject.................
> 
> I recently attended a lecture/panel discussion with our local power companies. I found it very informative and kind of interesting. We all want our power to stay on but many people get upset when lines are cleared to help keep the power on. Truth of the matter is trees should not be planted anywhere near power lines, but people do anyway. Trimming is a compromise to removing all of the treees that should be removed to keep the power on.
> 
> A figure that stands out in my head from the lecture I went to. If the power companies were to remove all of the trees deemed hazardous near there lines in Mass. they would be looking at spending ove 74 million dollars . Now thats a contract I'd like to get!



I do agree entirely with you on this. I am working utilities right now and go through this everyday.


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## asiegler04 (Jan 29, 2007)

The main electric company that we have down here is ameren and they hire sub contractors such as shade tree service out of Fenton Mo and they all are certified in the areas of arborculture.


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## trimwizard (Feb 10, 2007)

It looks like a removal that got stopped to me. I've seen land owners insist on some very stupid things. Around hear it seems the Utility Co. will back down to vocal homeowners pretty quickly. Then wait till a power outage is caused on the vocal persons property, pull a permit, and clear a nice clean path to the ground the entire width of the ROW and spray to keep things down in the future. Always wish there could have been a compromise earlier when I get called on those jobs.


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