# Looking for kevlar arm chaps



## treecare (Aug 18, 2011)

Hello,

I have been looking every place I can think of. Running a 200-t all day you need them.

Anyone where them and where did you get them?

Treecare


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## 046 (Aug 18, 2011)

call up labonville ... they custom make all competition chaps anyways. 
would be real surprised if they turned you down... I'd like set too

I've got a Stihl shirt that's got coverage for arms and chest


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## Slvrmple72 (Aug 19, 2011)

Still waitin on my custom Kevlar Speedo.....You can never be too safe!:msp_scared::taped::tongue2:


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## imagineero (Aug 20, 2011)

I'd be curious to see the specs on arm injuries for T handle users. I've been using one for years every day as a forestry pruner and then a tree worker. Have met lots and lots of guys in the industry, lots with injuries and stories to tell but have only heard one arm injury. Handholding a branch with arm over the top of the saw and the saw kicked up, made a mess of the underside of his wrist. 

I'd think if you kept both hands on the saw (which we all do, right? ) there'd be almost zero chance of injuring your arms.

Shaun


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## flushcut (Aug 20, 2011)

treecare said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have been looking every place I can think of. Running a 200-t all day you need them.
> 
> ...


 
Have you looked into industrial safety catalogues such as Lab Safety or Grangers. I have never seen kevlar arm "chaps" but I know they make sleeves out of kevlar for material handling.


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## 046 (Aug 20, 2011)

this chart shows where injuries are most likely to occur







Facts and Figures about Chainsaw Injuries

According to the U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission there were over 28,500 chain saw injuries in 1999. More than 36% were injuries to the legs and knees.

The average chainsaw injury requires 110 stitches and the average medical cost was $ 5,600.00 in 1989. Data according to The Davis Garvin Agency, an insurance underwriter specializing in loggers insurance. In year 2000 corresponding costs can be estimated to be over $12,000.00.

Medical costs for chainsaw injuries based on these facts amount to about 350 million dollars per year.

Workman's compensation costs, based on the assumption that four weeks recovery is required, can be estimated at 125 million dollars annually.

Loss of production as well as loss of quality of life for the injured can not be adequately quantified, but may in fact represent the single largest cost.

There are 69,000 professional loggers in the U.S.. The cost of equipping all of them with one pair of chainsaw chaps at approximately $75.00 each would result in a total annual expense of five million dollars.

There are few situations where safety has a more immediate payback than in the logging industry.


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## xdmp22 (Aug 20, 2011)

Ansell makes sleeves made from a product called dyneema. We sell them to metal fab companies for sheet metal work and custom glass shops.

I have one sample sleeve laying around, I may try and sleeve it onto a 4 x 4 and hit it with my saw.....not sure if it would work well, but would be better than a cotton shirt.

Kevlar sleeves are good for knife cut resistant, but I doubt they would work well for chainsaw.....

There is another product but I don't know who makes it. It is black grey and silver and has silver hexagon pcs on it for armour against cuts.

I may have one of those too I will look


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## beowulf343 (Aug 20, 2011)

The human brain, the most overlooked piece of safety equipment available.

These threads always make me laugh, kevlar can only do so much, and if you are in the air and can't keep from cutting your arms and hands, what's going to keep you from cutting your climbing line or lanyard.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 20, 2011)

beowulf343 said:


> The human brain, the most overlooked piece of safety equipment available.
> 
> These threads always make me laugh, kevlar can only do so much, and if you are in the air and can't keep from cutting your arms and hands, what's going to keep you from cutting your climbing line or lanyard.


 
LoL, Maybe he should get a Kevlar neck guard, Vest, gloves, or a whole Kevlar body-suit!
Jeff :msp_tongue:


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## flushcut (Aug 20, 2011)

beowulf343 said:


> what's going to keep you from cutting your climbing line or lanyard.


 
Kevlar climb line, duh!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 20, 2011)

xdmp22 said:


> Ansell makes sleeves made from a product called dyneema. We sell them to metal fab companies for sheet metal work and custom glass shops.
> 
> I have one sample sleeve laying around, I may try and sleeve it onto a 4 x 4 and hit it with my saw.....not sure if it would work well, but would be better than a cotton shirt.
> 
> ...


 
The ballistic property of Kevlar works in saws by jamming up the the sprocket, so there needs to be enough matting in the PPE to carry it in. 

My experience follows the .gov diagram, I've know a number of people who got caught one-handing a top-handle and injured hand or wrist. Several of them in the meat of the palm. 

Seems to me keeping two hands on the saw, most of the time, would be more productive. With the forearm being a major heat-exchange are of the body, we are talking of increasing the risk of heat stroke to protect against a accident caused by improper usage.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 20, 2011)

flushcut said:


> Kevlar climb line, duh!


 
Have I mentioned lately how much I hate sliced climbing lines? It never fails that I will cut it 10-20 feet below the splice while making a finish cut in a messy canopy. Yesterday it was a nice shiny 150 hank of HiVee Poison Ivy I got last month.  I was up in some bean-pole ash that are declining from over irrigation, seems a loop was caught in the chain catcher......


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## flushcut (Aug 20, 2011)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Have I mentioned lately how much I hate sliced climbing lines? It never fails that I will cut it 10-20 feet below the splice while making a finish cut in a messy canopy. Yesterday it was a nice shiny 150 hank of HiVee Poison Ivy I got last month.  I was up in some bean-pole ash that are declining from over irrigation, seems a loop was caught in the chain catcher......


 
I did that with mine last year with a hand saw. It wasn't bad but I cut it out and now I have a split tail with a spliced eye. I think saws are attracted to a spliced line for some reason :bang:


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## husabud (Aug 20, 2011)

I just tipped my new Lava from Sherrill. No biggie, Lost 55 feet of 120. I #### hundred dollar bills so I'll just get more. It seems some days it just doesn't pay to go to work. As careful as one can be and check everything twice or thrice, #### happens. Be safe!


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## 046 (Aug 20, 2011)

laugh all you want... fact is safety gear is ALWAYS better than no safety gear. 

in Tulsa... almost no one uses chaps, just hardhat if anything at all. 
Labonsville makes a set of heavy chaps called competition chaps that stops the chain completely without damage to your leg underneath. 

go to Madsens site, they've got a video posted with cut tests using whole hams under jeans and chaps. Labonville comp chaps came out on top with no damage to skin. 

don't get me wrong ... you cannot eliminate stupidity. but safety gear increases margin of error. 
sooner or later... we ALL will make a mistake. 




beowulf343 said:


> The human brain, the most overlooked piece of safety equipment available.
> 
> These threads always make me laugh, kevlar can only do so much, and if you are in the air and can't keep from cutting your arms and hands, what's going to keep you from cutting your climbing line or lanyard.


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## beowulf343 (Aug 20, 2011)

046, I have no problems with chaps, or glasses, or hardhats, or earmuffs, or gloves, or etc. Years ago the safety inspector would show us the benefits of chaps by strapping them to a phone pole and running a full throttle saw into them. Hell, my grandpa lost his hand to a saw before they started making them with chain brakes that would have prevented that accident. Safety features are good. My problem is with the safety nazi's. Jeff may be laughing about the full body kevlar suit, but i wouldn't be surprised to see something like that before i retire. "Safety" is getting stupider and stupider. I picked up a couple new saws last week, and have never read the manual that comes with them, so while the dealer was making some adjustments, i flipped through it-have you read the dumb crap in these things? After reading it, it appears the safest way to run a saw is with no gas (extremely flammable), no oil (dangerous to the enviroment), and no chain (the teeth are sharp.) It looks like the best way is to just place the bar without a chain on top of the log and start pulling it back and forth really fast (of course then you'd have to worry about friction starting a fire.) 
I mean come on, if you need a diagram to show you that putting your hand on a spinning chain is a bad idea, lack of safety gear isn't your biggest concern.


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## mattfr12 (Aug 20, 2011)

I mean come on said:


> Thats for sure i do know a guy that found that out the hard way tho.


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## TreeClimber57 (Aug 20, 2011)

xdmp22 said:


> Kevlar sleeves are good for knife cut resistant, but I doubt they would work well for chainsaw.....


 
Chainsaw pants have Kevlar; half a dozen layers or so. But it is woven into the pants differently than what police would use.. the pants are not designed to stop punctures.. and a knife would go right through them. But they will stop a chainsaw dead in its tracks. It is designed to be used when running at part throttle as per most specs, as most injuries happen on throttle up or throttle down apparently. But I have tried old ones at full throttle with a 372.. and it cut through the pants and into wood about 1/4" or so (less than 1/2") before stopping chain. Pants are only good for one hit.. and a bit of work cleaning out saw.. but they do work. The saw will not cut the Kevlar threads, and they are designed to quickly jam the chain so it will not turn. Depending on bar length and there it hits.. you get the chain travel into saw body before it jams.. so maybe a foot of travel or less in most cases or less if hitting leg area.


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## TreeClimber57 (Aug 20, 2011)

beowulf343 said:


> The human brain, the most overlooked piece of safety equipment available.
> 
> These threads always make me laugh, kevlar can only do so much, and if you are in the air and can't keep from cutting your arms and hands, what's going to keep you from cutting your climbing line or lanyard.


 
Well any safety equipment is designed to protect the well trained professional from an occasional accident. They are NOT designed to protect an idiot from their own doings.. although they just might.. once or twice.. enough accidents and something is going to get you. 

Climb line.. nothing to protect you  Lanyard.. well they do have steel inside (and while we climb with a steel and non-steel.. the steel is supposed to be used by law when cuttng). Now I have heard that a saw will go through a steel one.. but would not be a quick cut and surely you would notice it and stop.. I personally have never tried that as do not want to see what it does to chain.

But you are right.. kevlar can only do so much.


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## xdmp22 (Aug 20, 2011)

TreeClimber57 said:


> Chainsaw pants have Kevlar; half a dozen layers or so. But it is woven into the pants differently than what police would use.. the pants are not designed to stop punctures.. and a knife would go right through them. But they will stop a chainsaw dead in its tracks. It is designed to be used when running at part throttle as per most specs, as most injuries happen on throttle up or throttle down apparently. But I have tried old ones at full throttle with a 372.. and it cut through the pants and into wood about 1/4" or so (less than 1/2") before stopping chain. Pants are only good for one hit.. and a bit of work cleaning out saw.. but they do work. The saw will not cut the Kevlar threads, and they are designed to quickly jam the chain so it will not turn. Depending on bar length and there it hits.. you get the chain travel into saw body before it jams.. so maybe a foot of travel or less in most cases or less if hitting leg area.


 
Thanks for putting details to my post


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 20, 2011)

beowulf343 said:


> 046, My problem is with the safety nazi's. Jeff may be laughing about the full body kevlar suit, but i wouldn't be surprised to see something like that before i retire..



In 1995, I un-clipped my 020 from my belt and reached up to cut, a corymbia citradora , a euc, and it grabbed my saw and flung it up and it came down over my head. Stupid, I know, but the scar goes from my pinkie knuckle to my elbow. I cleaned it and never went to a Doctor, 
Came out OK I think. 
This is a pic of where it hit my hand 16 years ago. I just took this pic.
Jeff :msp_ohmy:


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## flushcut (Aug 20, 2011)

Ouch!


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## Bermie (Aug 21, 2011)

SIP makes arm chaps, sleeves that go from wrist to elbow.
I think its a more European thing, they are available if you search for them.

I have sometimes considered one for my left arm when pruning with the Silky...a long hot day doing all handsaw work has led to plenty of nicks and dings with the Zubat, but then its just a matter of paying attention, but gloves spare the thumb and forefinger so, why not?


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