# what mill to get?



## junglesteader (Jul 12, 2013)

just got my first saw. a stihl 291 16 and 20 inch bar, about 55cc. now i wanna get my first milling setup
way i understand it theres horizantil mounted and vertical mounted types. theres also bar mounted and rail mounted.
any particular pros or cons to either style?

the main one im looking at is granberg small log mill. 
and i was thinking to go with it some kinda vertical setup for edging logs . such as the beam machine, haddon lumber maker or most $$$ is the granberg mini mill, wich also seems the best.

i wanna make 2x4, 4x4, all the way up to 4x10, also milling slabs and siding.
im pretty decided on the small log mill, what i dont know is do i need one of the others as well? is there a need or benifit of having one of the vertical millers to? 
the beam machine is so small and cheap it seems just handy to have .for 2x4 and 4x4 making. whereas the G-berg mini mill is a bit more investment and bulck. 
should i get one just for making beams and 2x4s and the small log mill for slabbing and siding?
or is there one that does it all realy well?
great forum , glad to get any advice, thank you.


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## Trx250r180 (Jul 12, 2013)

that saw is kind of small for most milling of beams ,it should make the 2x4 sized ,but may be overworked and overheat on if you try bigger stuff


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## ancy (Jul 12, 2013)

Can you make lumber out of palm trees?.....JK! My guess is that you will be finding you need a bigger saw for milling. I just got my set-up together and it's a Granberg Alaskan with a Stihl 066 strapped to it.


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## junglesteader (Jul 12, 2013)

as far as bigger can ya gimme an idea , displacment wise. palm no maybe i cut one at some point and see whats in there but weve got alot of med hard fruit trees out here wild and invasive , free for the cutting..
i thought 55cc was enough for up to 18 inch logs


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## Trx250r180 (Jul 12, 2013)

junglesteader said:


> as far as bigger can ya gimme an idea , displacment wise. palm no maybe i cut one at some point and see whats in there but weve got alot of med hard fruit trees out here wild and invasive , free for the cutting..
> i thought 55cc was enough for up to 18 inch logs



75-95 cc with dual port muffler to let some of the heat out of the engine better


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## pastryguyhawaii (Jul 13, 2013)

Hey junglesteader, what island are you on?


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## flashhole (Jul 13, 2013)

You need a bigger saw.


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## junglesteader (Jul 13, 2013)

im on molokai . ive got alot of java plum to play with here seems like prety nice wood i just freehand chainsawed a cutting board and attempted a 4x4 the other day just to get a feel for the wood see how it seasons and and see how the saw ripps. not bad , i guess i will just have to burn this one out before i can justify to the wifey i need a bigger saw. i needed a GP med saw for a medium budget to start with. 
those BIG pro stihls are over a thousand, def not in my near future, maybe in a few years.

can any body explain the difference between the vertical and horizantal mills, pros, cons, ? mainly the G-bergs small log log mill and their mini mill.
also any advice how to season my lumber so borers dont start eating it ? i was thinking a borax or salt water bath?


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## BobL (Jul 13, 2013)

junglesteader said:


> can any body explain the difference between the vertical and horizantal mills, pros, cons, ? mainly the G-bergs small log log mill and their mini mill.
> also any advice how to season my lumber so borers dont start eating it ? i was thinking a borax or salt water bath?



Vertical mills
- usually single ended (attached to saw at inboard end) - exposed bar has greater potential for injury around the area of the operators feet.
- powerhead closer to operator than horizontal mill so more exhaust and dust closer to operators head - can be reduced using a remote throttle and push bar. There are also varieties that allow the back of the bar to be used for the cutting which throws most of the sawdust on the ground instead of onto the operator but none are available commercially.
- log or cant needs to be lifted off ground otherwise bar nose contacts ground
- guide board needed for ALL cuts, can be fiddly to get right
- cut limited to about 20"
- Cut wood can fall on operator - in one case an operator was splitting a large log and the cut half rolled onto his boots trapping him there for many hours - luck the ground was soft and he was not injured
- cannot use Auxilliary bar and chain oiler
- much lighter and smaller than most alaskans
- can more easily remove the saw and mill from log mid-cut

Horizontal Mill - usual name "Alaskan Mill"
- Structure of mill protects operator and nose guard can be fitted making alaskans one of the safest forms of chains mill.
- Once first board is milled no guide board required - although if high accuracy required I'd recommend using log rails every time
- Log can be sloped for easier downhill cutting
- Easier to use a winch to pull mill along
- Log can be milled on the ground although I recommend at least lifting one end to create a downhill cutting slope 
- Cut width limited only by bar length
- Several slabs can be left in place and bar lowered to make subsequent cuts - I don't know anyone else who does this as most CSM'ers want to look at the cut right away. I do it occasionally when I have the forklift available as this allows movement 2 or 3 slabs at the same time.
- Can refuel most saws while mill is in the middle of a cut
- Can easily use auxiliary B&C oiler
- PITA to remove mill from the log in the middle of a cut

There are probably more but I can't think of them right now. Maybe others can pitch in.

Looking at this list the vertical mills look pretty lame but they have their place especially to break up large boards cut by an alaskan.


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## gsp828 (Jul 13, 2013)

I am just getting started cs milling myself, but this has been my experience. I have an ms361 and an Alaskan mill. I went this route because I am most interested in making slabs. I chose the Alaskan mkIII mainly because I found it online on sale. The added bonus of this model is that you can buy replacement rails and change your mill size if you get a larger saw with a larger bar somewhere down the road. The downside is that you do lose a few inches of cutting with the second clamp. I didn't really consider a vertical mill, but I will probably get one somewhere down the road to help me make dimensional lumber. You may find that one will suit your needs while you are getting started.
My saw just like yours is a little underpowered for milling, but I just take it slow and I can't emphasize enough the importance of a sharp chain. A ripping chain will be a good investment. 
Good luck getting started


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## jrhannum (Jul 14, 2013)

*if yer handy, make yer own mill*

yer where I was 3 yrs ago and I din't wanna spend $300 for a Granberg; check out 9 pages back to Jan 7, 2013 for a home-made rig with only chicken-poop welding. I use it today


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## mad murdock (Jul 14, 2013)

To the OP- if you are interested in mostly dimensional milling, I would suggest Logosol's Timberjig. I have both an Alaskan MK IIi, and a Timberjig, and the Timberjig is much easier and faster to render a log to boards than any of the several different methods I have used with the Alaskan. Saw size for milling is reccomended at least 70cc. You can do better with picco (63PMX) chain and appropriate bar/drive sprocket setup than with 3/8" chain as smaller kerf requires less hp to pull through the wood, and has the added benefit of less waste and faster feed rate (cutting speed). I like both the Granberg and the Logosol, just that the Timberjig is more oriented to faster setups, easier changing thickness of cut and also ease of use. Both can yield crappy results, or excellent results, depending on the attention to detail one gives to the process:msp_thumbsup: (I have experienced both ends of the spectrum learning all along the way). One thing is the more you mill the better you will get at it, and the better your product will be. Get yourself a good filing guide(Pferd and Granberg have very good ones, that will help the seasoned user or the novice beginner to keep the chain in tip top cutting shape). Get some good files, some wedges either plastic or make your own of wood, to assist in the milling process. Check out vids on YouTube search chainsaw mill, Alaskan mill, Timberjig, and you will see firsthand some of the ways to do it, as well as a good perusing through chainsaw milling 101 on this forum. Have fun, you will soon be infected but in a good way!


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## ThistleIA (Jul 14, 2013)

When I first bought my Alaskan mill in late 1992 I had a new McCulloch PM610 w/24" bar as the powerhead.That 61cc engine had lots of grunt when used for normal crosscutting,but was a bit underpowered when milling hardwoods over 18"-20".April '94 bought new Poulan Pro 475 w/ 36" bar.77cc,was a big improvement.As I got older it was getting hard to start w/o a decomp valve.Sold that Nov. 2011 on ebay to buyer in Sonneborg,Germany.

Since 2011 have been using early-late 1980's Husky 288XPW & 2100CD for the mill.The best setup I've used.88 & 100cc's.Havent tried the SP125 on the mill yet,but it should be a blast to run also.

There is NO replacement for displacement.Took me a few years but finally figured it out.

To really make things go easier on the equipment (and you :msp_wink you really need 80cc minimum to power your mill.


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## pastryguyhawaii (Jul 14, 2013)

We spent a few days on Molokai one year. Very interesting island and extremely laid back. When you're ready for a bigger saw, check the classified here. You can get a good used saw at a decent price. As for mills, the Panther Mill 2 works great for me and was a good value, but I've never used any other brands to compare.


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## junglesteader (Jul 14, 2013)

ok guys , if , or more like when i get seriuos about milling i will get a bigger saw but i gotta make do for now gotta start somewhere. 
so as i understand it what i do to baby my saw , IS: keep sharp , dont push it hard, take brakes and leave it running to cool , ripping chain, any thing else ? oil , do i need some aftermarket oiler kit?
can i adjust oil pump in my stihl? it dont say in manual. 
hey bob thanks for realy brakin it down that was what i was lookin for. i was starting to come to the same understandings, vetical mills ,nose in dirt sawdust in face, not as safe etc.
jigs like the beam maker do seem to be adventagious for making rough cut dimensional lumber though , you guys agree? 
my wood dont need be perfect the chickens and tools that live in the sheds wont mind.


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## Magnumitis (Jul 14, 2013)

mad murdock said:


> To the OP- if you are interested in mostly dimensional milling, I would suggest Logosol's Timberjig. I have both an Alaskan MK IIi, and a Timberjig, and the Timberjig is much easier and faster to render a log to boards than any of the several different methods I have used with the Alaskan. Saw size for milling is reccomended at least 70cc. You can do better with picco (63PMX) chain and appropriate bar/drive sprocket setup than with 3/8" chain as smaller kerf requires less hp to pull through the wood, and has the added benefit of less waste and faster feed rate (cutting speed). I like both the Granberg and the Logosol, just that the Timberjig is more oriented to faster setups, easier changing thickness of cut and also ease of use. Both can yield crappy results, or excellent results, depending on the attention to detail one gives to the process:msp_thumbsup: (I have experienced both ends of the spectrum learning all along the way). One thing is the more you mill the better you will get at it, and the better your product will be. Get yourself a good filing guide(Pferd and Granberg have very good ones, that will help the seasoned user or the novice beginner to keep the chain in tip top cutting shape). Get some good files, some wedges either plastic or make your own of wood, to assist in the milling process. Check out vids on YouTube search chainsaw mill, Alaskan mill, Timberjig, and you will see firsthand some of the ways to do it, as well as a good perusing through chainsaw milling 101 on this forum. Have fun, you will soon be infected but in a good way!



Thank you. Now I know I am going to mill some wood soon.


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## greasefittn (Jul 14, 2013)

*what size saw?*

well the guys are right about displacement, but a sharp chain makes or breaks you. to keep these small or any 2 cycle alive, 16 oz of oil per gallon. I have ran xl12 and 1050 size saws for years on this mix with no trouble. they must be ran way rich. The plug will last all year if the compression is good. my 1050 has never been apart xcept to change to electronic ignition. and it had a hard life on the farm before it started milling duty. Its pretty tired now but still runs well.


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## BobL (Jul 14, 2013)

greasefittn said:


> well the guys are right about displacement, but a sharp chain makes or breaks you. to keep these small or any 2 cycle alive, 16 oz of oil per gallon. I have ran xl12 and 1050 size saws for years on this mix with no trouble. they must be ran way rich.



Richness is NOT determined by the gas/oil ratio - it is determined by the gas/air ratio.

In fact, switching mixes to a lower gas/oil ratio without tuning does not richen the operating conditions of a saw it actually leans it out

16 oz/gallon is the same as 8:1 - that means that that 1/9th of the mix is oil and only 8/9 (or 89%) of the mix is gas

In a 50:1 mix , 1/51 of the mix is oil and 50/51 (or 98%) of the mix is gas.

Using 8:1 means using 89/98 or only 90% of the gas that a 50:1 mix uses, in other words using less combustible material so if the tuning screws are left untouched the saw will run lean.

BUT I reckon there is a better reason not to run with so much oil in a mix.
In the old days using low gas/oil ratios like 8:1 resulted in a fog of blue smoke which CS operators just lived with.
Some of these old oils used castor or other oils which also burned up more readily than modern oils.
The lube in modern 2 strokes does not burn up as readily so the lubes are loaded with additional chemicals to suppress smoke by binding with the exhaust to prevent visible smoking and this unburnt invisible gunk fills the air around the operator. 

Modern synthetic lubes are in fact so good that modern saws could even get away with using 100:1 but that is very difficult to mix accurately and if it is slightly out it could lead to lube problems which is why the manufacturers don't advise this.

The idea that using more lube in the mix increases richness is another old timers misconception - my dad and his mates had the same ideas.
I always recommend folks use what the cs manual says and tune the saw rich by using carby or jet adjustment.


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## greasefittn (Jul 14, 2013)

*richness*

all of the above is true the xtra oil also lowers the availiable octane and also takes away power. these old design engines were made to run 6-7000 rpms or so make sure they don't go over that speed with richness on the main jet. maby less. than 6ooo but no matter how rich it is it will run clean in the cut. , maby slower than 6-7000 , but you will never hert it


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## BobL (Jul 15, 2013)

This is the sort of saw that my Dad used in the early days




A few specs - look at the RPM and recommended fuel octane

ENGINE DISPLACEMENT: 250cc (15.25 cu. in.)
NUMBER OF CYLINDERS: 1
OPERATOR CONFIGURATION: Two Man operation
STARTER TYPE: Rope wound around pulley on flywheel
OIL PUMP: Manual
OPERATING RPM: 3,000 to 3,600 
FUEL OIL RATIO: 12:1
RECOMMENDED FUEL OCTANE: Regular grade 72 to 83
MIX OIL SPECIFICATION: SAE 40
CHAIN PITCH: 19 mm (0.075 in.)
CHAIN TYPE: Scratcher


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## JakeG (Jul 15, 2013)

Junglesteader.. A few things to think about:

I just sold a good 81cc saw (with great power) for $200. Your MS291 would likely bring a little more money depending on its condition and your local market. Maybe sell it and buy a 70cc+ saw... Or keep it and save your money until funds allow.

I milled a fresh 10-11" diamter, 8'6" long Red Oak log with my Timberjigg and 562xp (60cc pro-saw) with a 16" bar and Oregon LGX chain. Red oak is a very hard wood, that's a fact. It's not "Aussie-Hard", but very hard when compared to pine. I ended up with three 1.5"/6" boards (2x6's). Each cut took about 4 minutes. Unfortunately, the oiler was not up to the task and my bar developed a burn line on the cutting edge. The drive links on my chain are also caked with burnt saw dust. I have since built an auxiliary oiler for the Timberjig for zero dollars but have yet to use it. I have however, tested it thoroughly and can control flow very well.

I've ran the ms290 (same hp as your 291) many many.. Many times. It has considerably less power and oils much less than my 562xp. I can't recommend using your 20" bar for milling.. Even the 16" will be a stretch. BUT, if the fruit wood you plan to mill is softer than red oak, you may be alright 

As luck had it, I found a great 394xp (94cc's) to take up milling duty. Should have it Friday!


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## flashhole (Jul 21, 2013)

I mill with a 394 Husky. Did a 20" Ash log today that was just short of 16' long. It does really well with a 36" bar and my 30" mill but in the hard wood I have to fill the tank before I get to the end of a long cut. Seems like I average one tank of gas and one reservoir of oil per cut. The oiler works really well. 

My 394 has a couple of quirks. It starts easily on the 3rd or 4th pull when it is cold. Usually will pop on the second pull with the choke out. Push the choke in after it pops, one or two pulls and it is off to the races. If I use the kill switch when it is hot it takes forever to get it started again so I use the choke kill trick. When I shut it down with the choke it will usually start again with one pull, two at the most. I choke it till it dies, then push the choke back in immediately. If it runs out of gas in the cut while hot I have to let it cool down completely before I can start it again.


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## highrisen (Jul 25, 2013)

*How long will these slabs last?*

Im in the same boat as junglesteader - I dont quite have the equipment to go big yet but I'd like to try my hand at it before buying more.

It may be a stupid question but I've always use treated wood outside (and anyone seen the price of plywood lately)... Any idea how long one could expect 1-2" white pine or oak slabs to last if reasonably protected from rain?


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## gsp828 (Jul 25, 2013)

How long untreated lumber will last really depends on how you are using it and how you treat it.
Hirisen, I am sure you could find a barn or shed or even an old house with exposed untreated pine. My father has a shed that has pine slab lap siding that is holding up pretty well to be about 20 years old. If I am remembering correctly he uses a Hudson sprayer to quickly spray on some sealer about every ten years or so(probably should be done more frequently but it is a pretty low priority out building). If you are looking to use it as siding for a shed or some other rustic building my guess would be that you will see a similar if not better lifespan to pressure treated ply. You will have to be a little more careful with it than with pressure treated. You will need some clearance from the ground to avoid termites, other insects, and water (I would still regularly apply pesticide). You have to remember that pressure treating hasn't really been around that long and wood structures have been around for much longer. If you are using it for siding or really any other situation where you would use plywood I would stay away from any 2" thickness. The wood can get heavy in a hurry when it is that thick. 

I am in the same boat as well as far as having an underpowered saw. I don't have much problem with pine, but anytime I get into hardwoods I really wish I could afford a larger saw. On that note if anyone has a good milling saw they are looking to unload for a couple of hundred bucks, send me a message.


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## Chris Holman (Jan 19, 2015)

I hope yall can help me, im just getting started in cutting slabs, I've been freehanding these but I need the cheapest chainsaw mill attachment there is that will accomplish my task, i have logs I want to cut even/flat slices out of, can the granberg mini mill be used this way instead of cutting the log length wise?


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## mad murdock (Jan 19, 2015)

i think you would be best served with an Alaskan Mk III, with at least a 70cc saw and a 28-32" bar on a 28-36" mill. With the saw set up to mill with picco or lo profile chain, you will be happy with the results.


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## arborjockey (Jan 29, 2015)

What molokai? Where's da pics?


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## arborjockey (Jan 29, 2015)

Oh and you oil guys. 
100 : 1 amsoil sabre only way to go


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## Climb-Ax™ (Feb 1, 2015)

We use a Woodmizer LT70 with a Cat Diesel, it works great on hardwood.


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## Haywire Haywood (Feb 1, 2015)

I started out with an Alaskan small log mill and played with that for a bit and then ended up trading for a second one. I bought two 36" pieces of 30x30mm aluminum extrusion off ebay and connected the two together to make a regular Alaskan out of them. Works great. Most of what I milled was eastern red cedar, so soft wood was the rule. I did mill a big maple that went about 28-30 inches through the middle, but that was when I had the 076. Then the tablesaw tried to eat my fingers and my woodworking endeavors came to a screeching halt. I broke it out again last year with the 372 to make some raised beds from milled cedar and that worked out fine. Those cedars were about 12".

Ian


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