# When do I get rid of these?



## roberthathaway7 (Jun 21, 2012)

I run a lawn and landscape business and do a little basic tree cutting. I ran into a whole lotta these at a large cemetary and have few other houses with the same and I thought to myself hmm... alright those really need to be gone, and I bet if I played my cards right I could get a sweet Stihl HT 131 paid for, which I've really been wanting for around the farm not to mention to make some money with. And I don't mix latters with chainsaws so it would be a nice addition. Anyways, when do I cut these suckers off? The trees (red oaks) put them on because a storm came through and knocked some branches off. I would think it wouldn't hurt to remove them by any means, but is there a time of the year that is more effective in keeping them from just putting on more suckers? I'm all about job security but I'm more about doing quality work so I want these things gone and gone if possible to keep that rep up. And what would you all charge/hour for this type of thing? I usually just charge 30/ man hour for all of my 2/stroke work (no chipper or booms or anything, I keep it simple. If I can't, I leave it to the experts). As far as disposal I just have to haul it to a brush pile in the back of the cemetary so I'm just lookin at flat hourly rate.View attachment 242485


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## treeslayer (Jun 21, 2012)

hire a real arborist/climber to do it. 
Bid $100 an hour. give him half the money. you labor for him and haul the brush. (and google oak wilt, BTW....... you live in Illinois.)


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## treemandan (Jun 21, 2012)

roberthathaway7 said:


> I run a lawn and landscape business and do a little basic tree cutting. I ran into a whole lotta these at a large cemetary and have few other houses with the same and I thought to myself hmm... alright those really need to be gone, and I bet if I played my cards right I could get a sweet Stihl HT 131 paid for, which I've really been wanting for around the farm not to mention to make some money with. And I don't mix latters with chainsaws so it would be a nice addition. Anyways, when do I cut these suckers off? The trees (red oaks) put them on because a storm came through and knocked some branches off. I would think it wouldn't hurt to remove them by any means, but is there a time of the year that is more effective in keeping them from just putting on more suckers? I'm all about job security but I'm more about doing quality work so I want these things gone and gone if possible to keep that rep up. And what would you all charge/hour for this type of thing? I usually just charge 30/ man hour for all of my 2/stroke work (no chipper or booms or anything, I keep it simple. If I can't, I leave it to the experts). As far as disposal I just have to haul it to a brush pile in the back of the cemetary so I'm just lookin at flat hourly rate.View attachment 242485



I am not the brightest bulb in the sack of patatoes I know so someone is gonna have to tell me what this guy is talking about?


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## no tree to big (Jun 21, 2012)

ok lets see here first you are not supposed to trim oaks in the spring summer or fall, that leaves winter only  second why do you need anything gas powered? a simple pole saw is more then enough to handle that and well lets see if you charge 30/hr that would work out to about $2.50 and if you charge 100/hr that's about $8.33


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## roberthathaway7 (Jun 24, 2012)

I'll do it myself with a gas pole saw, because I've got the time, and I'll take all the money rather than split it, and as much as I like to do work there are way too many trees with these things to be wearin my shoulder cuff out on a regular pole saw. Those branches are just like 15 feet off the ground, so hiring a climber seems a bit like overkill. Although I do believe in consulting an arborist, but I don't know any around here off hand so I'm checking with you guys. I just want to know how to do a simple job right, thanks for the info on the timing though, I figured winter was the best just making sure. And I will google oak wilt. We had a handful of white oaks die on our farm randomly, that could have something to do with them too. What are you saying with your figures NoTreeTooBig? I couldn't follow. I'm charging 30/hour per man hour. I would charge more but I'm not as experienced and skilled/equipped like others so each job may take me longer than someone who charges 100. The way I look at it, a guy charging 100/hour may get the job done in 1/3 the time, but we still both charge $100 to accomplish the same task (lukcy for me i have less overhead). If it's beyond my skills to do the job RIGHT and effectively though, I just won't take the job. I don't do anything unless I can do it right. Thus my questions on when to cut these branches. If you all have any other info on how I should go about this let me know. It seems simple enough but like I said I want to make sure I do it right and put the tree and customer first.


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## no tree to big (Jun 24, 2012)

my dollar figures are based on that being a 5 min job also being as I never heard of or used a gas pole saw for fine pruning you may make some ugly cuts or tear up the trunk if your not careful, its easy enough to leave a little chain rash when using a top handle chainsaw let alone a chainsaw on a stick( way less control)


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 24, 2012)

I am going to respectfully disagree with NTTB on this one. Taking those water sprouts off this time of year on otherwise healthy trees presents very little oak wilt risk, and a power pruner can def. get the job done faster, and make plenty clean cuts, IMO. Our standard is to only paint cuts 2" or over, and we trim oaks year round. We do try and postpone large oak trims march and april here, when they are most active, though. just make sure your chain is sharp, and you will tear through em. Jeff


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## husabud (Jun 24, 2012)

Did you just say paint cuts? Leave the hardwoods for winter. Get a Silky pole saw and go make an extra hundred during the week when you really need it.


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## no tree to big (Jun 24, 2012)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I am going to respectfully disagree with NTTB on this one. Taking those water sprouts off this time of year on otherwise healthy trees presents very little oak wilt risk, and a power pruner can def. get the job done faster, and make plenty clean cuts, IMO. Our standard is to only paint cuts 2" or over, and we trim oaks year round. We do try and postpone large oak trims march and april here, when they are most active, though. just make sure your chain is sharp, and you will tear through em. Jeff



trimming is trimming in my area none of the real co's will touch an oak or elm unless its a matter of life or death no matter how little the task


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 24, 2012)

We have a lot of oak blight down here, and the current standard from TX Forestry dept is to paint all cuts with just regular black spray paint, within 5 minutes of the cut. The theory is the solvents in the paint will keep the bugs away until the sap stops running. What can i say, we just follow their guidelines.


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## mckeetree (Jun 24, 2012)

TheJollyLogger said:


> We have a lot of oak blight down here, and the current standard from TX Forestry dept is to paint all cuts with just regular black spray paint, within 5 minutes of the cut. The theory is the solvents in the paint will keep the bugs away until the sap stops running. What can i say, we just follow their guidelines.



"Oak blight???" Are you talking about hypoxylon canker? Black spray paint?


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## limbwalker54 (Jun 25, 2012)

In this area the "OAK BLIGHT" that the guys who haven't a clue but throw names at shiznit....is usually Bacterial Leaf Scorch (_Xyella fastidiosa_

I love made up diseases....they make me feel so much smarter!


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## sgreanbeans (Jun 25, 2012)

Wait until winter, small, yes, but still will attract bugs. No gas pole saw on those, you WILL tear instead of cut. Jameson pole with a saw or pruner head or the like. No painting needed when done in winter. Think spray paint is way off course. There is a sealer made specifically for oaks, guy is a site sponsor on here. By the times the bugs emerge in the late spring, the tree has had time to compartmentalize the wounds.


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## roberthathaway7 (Jun 25, 2012)

ahh ok I got ya, it's not a 5 minute job because there are prob 20 of the trees like the one in the picture I posted, and besides I charge a minimum of 50 dollars to show up for any small job even if it does take 5 minutes. Those are the sweet ones. Although since my mowing is more streamlined and routine I charge a minimum of $30... I timed one of my small yards yesterday mowing by myself and it took me 15 minutes in and out =$120/direct man hour  Now if I could just get a big line of those down one street..

Thanks for the info guys, looks like the consensus is wait til winter. So you al saw wait for hardwoods.. does that mean that softwoods are ok to trim in the summer because their sap runs a little quicker to seal it up and keep disease out? I'll prob grab some of that oak sealer and jump on a ladder to paint it on. If I can do it this summer at all I prob will because this drought has literally brought my business down to 20% volume so I'm barely covering costs as it is

I have a lineman friend who has told me about silky's. I may look into that, up my margin and skip on the toys for now. It's got to be better than this stupid craftsman extendable job I've got.


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## husabud (Jun 25, 2012)

I worked for a small Landscape co after college. We were slammed for two months or so in the spring when dead for two or three as all the grass burned off. We decided to offer all the customers irrigation for the price of the parts. We worked for free installing it, except our 10% markup on parts. The following year there wasn't a slow month or even week for that matter. Think outside of the box. Silky all the way unless around wires then no way!


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## Carburetorless (Jun 25, 2012)

If you're talking about the sucker growth on the trunk, use a pruning pole with a lopper on it. I can reach up to about 20ft with my 16 footer, those you could prolly get with a shorter one.

Looks like there are quite a few trees in that cemetery. I would make them an offer for doing all of them, and take out the dead wood too, not just the suckers on the trunks.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 25, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> my dollar figures are based on that being a 5 min job also being as I never heard of or used a gas pole saw for fine pruning you may make some ugly cuts or tear up the trunk if your not careful, its easy enough to leave a little chain rash when using a top handle chainsaw let alone a chainsaw on a stick( way less control)




I wouldn't even bother showing up for $8.25 even if it only took 2 minutes.

Anyway, looks like there are more than just one tree in there, so it's probably at least a day; How much would you charge for a day, $57.35? :cool2:


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## no tree to big (Jun 25, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> I wouldn't even bother showing up for $8.25 even if it only took 2 minutes.
> 
> Anyway, looks like there are more than just one tree in there, so it's probably at least a day; How much would you charge for a day, $57.35? :cool2:



he was talking about paying for a pole pruner like he was going to get rich off trimming suckers off a few trees and said he charges 30/hr, and that is a one two three job... yes I know you need to have a minimum charge bla bla bla but if there were 20 of those trees on one property I'd charge like 300 bucks and be in and out in an hour and a half by myself on a saturday afternoon


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## mckeetree (Jun 25, 2012)

limbwalker54 said:


> In this area the "OAK BLIGHT" that the guys who haven't a clue but throw names at shiznit....is usually Bacterial Leaf Scorch (_Xyella fastidiosa_
> 
> I love made up diseases....they make me feel so much smarter!



I did a consultation today behind some jackass that had told the client the aphid problem on her crape myrtles was "Oklahoma sticky leaf" and the post oak near the patio had "oak blight." I couldn't find anything wrong with post oak. Another tree he inspected, a large red oak, actually had hypoxylon canker. He had pronounced that tree in fine condition without any problems. Where do people find these morons?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 25, 2012)

mckeetree said:


> "Oak blight???" Are you talking about hypoxylon canker? Black spray paint?



I meant Oak wilt. and yes, spray paint. I don't know if it does any good, but it's the standard paractice in the Austin/ San Antonio area. They even sell paint can holsters for saddles, and can attachments for pole pruners.

Pruning Guidelines for Prevention of Oak Wilt in Texas

Hypoxylon is a whole other issue, Bastrop county has it bad

Texas Forest Service


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## sgreanbeans (Jun 26, 2012)

roberthathaway7 said:


> So you al saw wait for hardwoods.. does that mean that softwoods are ok to trim in the summer because their sap runs a little quicker to seal it up and keep disease out? I'll prob grab some of that oak sealer and jump on a ladder to paint it on.



Oaks in winter, all others- it is easier to explain when not too. The time you don't want to prune any tree is during bud break and leaf drop (spring and fall) trees are using their reserves during this time and u can easily stress the tree.

This topic can get real deep real quick. You need to get some edumacation on it. Best pruning standards and a book on Arboriculture will do ya wonders for a start. If you are going to be doing this stuff, it is important that you learn the way of the Jedi


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## Treewound (Jun 26, 2012)

Won't comment on the different opinions as to what type of saw to use, but the concerns about Oak Wilt and other diseases are valid. If given the choice, pruning should always wait until late fall/winter. All wounds, large or small can attract insects that spread Oak Wilt, so ALL wounds should be treated with a quality Tree Wound Dressing right away. Don't know about paint, but Treekote Tree Wound dressing has been PROVEN (Studies on Pruning Cuts and Wound Dressings for Oak Wilt Control, Arboriculture and Urban Forestry, Volume 33, Number 2, March 2007) to be effective at controlling the spread of Oak Wilt.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 26, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> he was talking about paying for a pole pruner like he was going to get rich off trimming suckers off a few trees and said he charges 30/hr, and that is a one two three job... yes I know you need to have a minimum charge bla bla bla but if there were 20 of those trees on one property I'd charge like 300 bucks and be in and out in an hour and a half by myself on a saturday afternoon



I doubt you'd make your way to 20 trees spread out like that, prune the suckers, remove the dead wood from the canopies, and clean up the mess in 90 minutes.

$300 sounds like a low-ball bid for all the work that *should* be done. 

Then you're suggesting $200 an hour for light pruning from the ground. A cup of coffee where you live must be like $7.50.


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## roberthathaway7 (Jun 26, 2012)

husabud said:


> I worked for a small Landscape co after college. We were slammed for two months or so in the spring when dead for two or three as all the grass burned off. We decided to offer all the customers irrigation for the price of the parts. We worked for free installing it, except our 10% markup on parts. The following year there wasn't a slow month or even week for that matter. Think outside of the box. Silky all the way unless around wires then no way!



I've actually been tossing around that exact idea. Before this crazy drought, people around here (low SES town) would have laughed at me if I offered that service at full cost, and nobody would have cared enough for their lawn to have it done even at the cost, BUT I'm hoping the extreme burn that everyone is getting this year may make them look at it a little differently.


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## no tree to big (Jun 26, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Then you're suggesting $200 an hour for light pruning from the ground. A cup of coffee where you live must be like $7.50.



200/hr light pruning from ground yep why not when I could go pocket 2g's doing a removal instead. ever heard of starbucks? darn close to 7.50 a cup :msp_ohmy: 

this is the Chicago market I'm in we have a completely different price range from a lot of areas I work in a lot of old towns with a lot of money so the market instantly goes up when you cross the line. here are the real estate listings for one of the towns we do a lot of work in Oak Park Real Estate - Oak Park, IL Homes for Sale - Realtor.com® notice listing dont go under 500K until your 9 pages deep and property taxes are 15-30K


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## roberthathaway7 (Jun 26, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> 200/hr light pruning from ground yep why not when I could go pocket 2g's doing a removal instead. ever heard of starbucks? darn close to 7.50 a cup :msp_ohmy:
> 
> this is the Chicago market I'm in we have a completely different price range from a lot of areas I work in a lot of old towns with a lot of money so the market instantly goes up when you cross the line. here are the real estate listings for one of the towns we do a lot of work in Oak Park Real Estate - Oak Park, IL Homes for Sale - Realtor.com® notice listing dont go under 500K until your 9 pages deep and property taxes are 15-30K



Whoooooooooooooooooooo cares. You need to A: get your d*ck out of your hand when you're making your [email protected]$$ posts, and B: work on your math skills and reading comprehension because you're making yourself look like an idiot rather than me. Good luck to you.

Thank you to everyone else. I am going to order The Fundamentals of General Tree Work from Bailey's here in a minute, I hear that Baranek guy is the man. I do have some pruning sealer in a spray can- best of both worlds


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## sgreanbeans (Jun 27, 2012)

roberthathaway7 said:


> Whoooooooooooooooooooo cares. You need to A: get your d*ck out of your hand when you're making your [email protected]$$ posts, and B: work on your math skills and reading comprehension because you're making yourself look like an idiot rather than me. Good luck to you.



Easy now


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## no tree to big (Jun 27, 2012)

roberthathaway7 said:


> Whoooooooooooooooooooo cares. You need to A: get your d*ck out of your hand when you're making your [email protected]$$ posts, and B: work on your math skills and reading comprehension because you're making yourself look like an idiot rather than me. Good luck to you.
> 
> Thank you to everyone else. I am going to order The Fundamentals of General Tree Work from Bailey's here in a minute, I hear that Baranek guy is the man. I do have some pruning sealer in a spray can- best of both worlds



first of all why are your granny panties getting all bunched up? I was responding to carb... not you 
what math? carbie said 200/hr for trimming like it was high so yea instead of working for 30-100/hr I could go POCKET 2K in a day(after expenses) not having to lift a finger while I supervise! or even better I let my guys do the removal while I go cut the suckers off and I'll kill two birds with one stone.

have a nice day, don't over work your mower in this heat:msp_unsure:


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## Carburetorless (Jun 27, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> I could go POCKET 2K in a day(after expenses) not having to lift a finger while I supervise! or even better I let my guys do the removal while I go cut the suckers off and I'll kill two birds with one stone.



You're an inspiration to us all. I'moana start chargin $250 a half, and make the customer help with the clean up.


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## no tree to big (Jun 27, 2012)

sorry I forgot this is 101 the big money is over in commercial:msp_rolleyes: if a tree is a $3K tree its a $3K tree and if it only costs me 1K to get the job done then so be it. if all of the bigger co's would charge that much well so am I in a lot of cases I don't get work because I am priced about the same as the big boyz but a lot of times I get the work because they don't want to wait 1-3 months to have the work done


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## Carburetorless (Jun 28, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> sorry I forgot this is 101 the big money is over in commercial:msp_rolleyes: if a tree is a $3K tree its a $3K tree and if it only costs me 1K to get the job done then so be it. if all of the bigger co's would charge that much well so am I in a lot of cases I don't get work because I am priced about the same as the big boyz but a lot of times I get the work because they don't want to wait 1-3 months to have the work done



I'd rather charge $750 for that tree, and pay $3.50 for a double espresso, as opposed to paying $16.00 like you guys in Chi town do.

When it's all said and done you're not any better off making four times what I do if you have to pay out 5 times what I do for the things you buy.


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## roberthathaway7 (Nov 14, 2012)

wow. I don't take it back, but I do apologize. Guess I was a little cranky last time I was on here.. I did't really get into reading much of what has been posted but I do know that I feel like I would rather feed a starving child in africa for a month with 14.50 and spend 50 cents at home making my own thermos full of coffee that may or may not taste gourmet than buy a 15.00 coffee, let alone a 3.50 coffee haha.


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