# Before and After



## ROKFISHIN (Jan 2, 2009)

These pics were taken by the homeowner. Some small trees were removed and the rest were raised and cleaned. There are no pics of the back yard work, just the curb appeal. The job took me 2 days with 2 ground guys.


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## WVwoodsman (Jan 2, 2009)

Nice job! You can definitely see that nice big brick house that the trees were hiding.


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## WOODSMAN416 (Jan 14, 2009)

I think it looked better before.LOL


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## JeffL (Jan 14, 2009)

Whos idea was it to upbranch them so high? I think they just look really skinned out now, mighta looked a touch nicer to leave the foliage maybe 5-10 feet lower? Its too uniform.


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## Ed Roland (Jan 14, 2009)

Great Odon's Hammer! By removing so much in one season you have set these tree's long term health back. 

oh well, you can sell them your IPM, now.


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## limbwalker54 (Jan 14, 2009)

I see what you were trying to accomplish however, as was stated, I believe the elevation was a bit extreme. Visibility could have been improved without the complete stripping of the lower limbs. You might find a lot of shoots that will come out in response to that drastic of an elevation. That is your sign of overpruning. In this case, over elevation.


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## Rftreeman (Jan 14, 2009)

looks fine to me if that's what the customer wanted.


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 14, 2009)

Wow, you rocked them baby's hard! I should know, I've done it before, lol.


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## D Mc (Jan 15, 2009)

Someone spent a considerable amount of time preparing that landscape with tree islands with woody plants getting good separation between trees and lawn. This showed a good understanding and care for what trees require. 

I know you probably feel pretty proud of the work you accomplished but as the years go by you may look back with a different view point.

Dave


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## Toddppm (Jan 15, 2009)

Those people probably paid a lot of good money for that house, they want everybody to see it! Screw the trees!:greenchainsaw:


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## S Mc (Jan 15, 2009)

It's always difficult to have a client who dictates how a job must be accomplished. What we like to do is ask them what their goals are and then explain to them how we would go about accomplishing it. That is our job as professionals. This is also why understanding the biology of trees, their environments and requirements is so important.

If their goal was to make their house more visible to the street (many people would prefer the privacy, but maybe you are in a high crime area?), then selecting "windows" to create the discrete glimpse or line of sight would have been preferable IMHO.

I agree with the above comments that you took off too much. 

Sylvia


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## tree MDS (Jan 15, 2009)

It reminds me of the way the rookie cops like to get thier hair cut - high and tight, the old "screamin' eagle", craw, craw.

In other word perhaps a little extream. You could have achieved a similar result while allowing the trees to retain some dignity. Could have been a little more artistic in your approach.

That said, homeowners can be a PITA sometimes, so its your job to sell them a better job than what they can envision through thier narrow perception.

I have to confess that just this summer I "lollypopped" an entire mountain of trees working this sub job. The arborist advised the HO otherwise but he had his own vision, turns out he was like the worlds most famous architect and this was major $$ so everone just went along. Sort of sad really.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 15, 2009)

Too too much really health wise more than clearance for mowing is too much. The biggest problem is this method repeats itself even more than topping.nIf we could only get trees to grow that way lol. Homeowners like the raised limbs for views and turf however a median needs to be achieved about half of what you stripped would have been better. I will admit they look nice raised but balance, taper not acclimated to winds and likely failure will be a result.


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## tomtrees58 (Jan 15, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> It reminds me of the way the rookie cops like to get thier hair cut - high and tight, the old "screamin' eagle", craw, craw.
> 
> In other word perhaps a little extream. You could have achieved a similar result while allowing the trees to retain some dignity. Could have been a little more artistic in your approach.:agree2:
> tom trees


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## Booshcat (Jan 15, 2009)

The trees are still in the way...I cant see every brick:censored:


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## tree MDS (Jan 15, 2009)

Booshcat said:


> The trees are still in the way...I cant see every brick:censored:



Hey, telephone poles need hugs too!


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## treemandan (Jan 15, 2009)

Toddppm said:


> Those people probably paid a lot of good money for that house, they want everybody to see it! Screw the trees!:greenchainsaw:



I paid a lot of money for a tatto of Elvis on my schlong, I do want everybody to see that. Place looks like clowns live there.


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## treemandan (Jan 15, 2009)

I probaly should delete that last statement but every time I hear the "They payed a lot of money and want people to see it" speal I whip out Elvis.
No , but I want to ask" Why, so they can rob it?" 
Hell, I woould have stayed behind the trees under cover, staying low, if the doorbell rang I would go for the Glock.


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## treemandan (Jan 15, 2009)

I am sorry, I keep going on and on BUT this is it AND I have to say it ( the martinis told me to)

THE BEFORE PIC LOOKS NICER THE THE AFTER.
You could have gotten the same results without such a an extreme skinning. The place looks so unnatural I would think the owners had plastic surgery too. They would try to show that off too, I would be sick. 
FENG SCHWAY , I thinks its called, you missed it by a mile. Its also true more harm than good was done. Also true it don't really matter... I guess, I do it when told to. When I am doing stuff like that I always think of Treeco standing over me saying " You are nothing but a cheap peice of crap hack"

before, that's way better.


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## tree MDS (Jan 15, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I am sorry, I keep going on and on BUT this is it AND I have to say it ( the martinis told me to)
> 
> THE BEFORE PIC LOOKS NICER THE THE AFTER.
> You could have gotten the same results without such a an extreme skinning. The place looks so unnatural I would think the owners had plastic surgery too. They would try to show that off too, I would be sick.
> ...



Good stuff, rock on "the dan"! lol.


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## Ed Roland (Jan 15, 2009)

Kim D. Coder said it this way:

"Pruning Control Pathways
There are many growing points on every twig and branch. To assist in considering pruning effects, here only the primary quality of the individual twig or branch pathway will be determined. Remember that each twig or branch may have a number of different pathways presenting over the year and with changing tissue vigor and overall tree health. The four primary types of growth control pathways, and so, the four greenwood twig or branch pruning forms in a tree are: primary, active, marginal, and dormant. Dormant growing points are not specifically pruned and will not be further discussed here. Descriptions of the first three types of tissues listed above to be pruned are: 
Primary (1°): The primary pathways (stem or branches) are the single or multiple terminal growing points or buds controlling the entire tree. These branches correlate supply and demand throughout the tree, generate the majority of the food along their axis, and use a majority of the soil-gathered resources. 
Active: The active pathways are associated with productive twigs and branches generating major amounts of food for the rest of the tree. Significant amounts of food along these pathways are stored if there is excess. 

Marginal: Marginal pathways (branches and twigs) may have been active at one time but because of shading, damage, or position effects, are barely generating a positive food flow along the pathway.

Example - Marginal Branch
The pruning of a marginal branch in a tree creates a wound, severs tissue connections and disrupts the growth control pathway. The remaining control field near the wound releases dormant growing points if there are carbohydrates available. If the branch was marginal and had been barely hanging on for several seasons, then local storage in the rays would have been depleted. What growth control pathway is present, with associated poor connections to the remaining tree, could be taken over by an active shoot above this path. This realignment to other growth control pathways will cause little disruption in the tree. 
Examples - Active Branch
Pruning an active growth control pathway will disrupts many growth control processes. The local control field at the wound will release dormant growing points, initiate adventitious buds, and demand food supplies. The large growth control pathway will be partially taken over by other active and primary pathways arising from further above the wound. If the active pathway was from a small diameter branch, then the released sprouts should quickly recover the active growth control pathway that ends in the roots. 
If the branch was active and large in diameter, as sprouts become self-sufficient, the growth control pathway will be reestablished from the wound downward. There will be some areas taken over by adjacent pathways, and some tissue in the stem and roots may be compartmentalized off. Large branch (heartwood exposure) wounds are periods of weak control for tree defenses and so provide pest attack opportunities. Finally, after several seasons of adjustments, new pathways are efficiently established and new connections made. 

Example - Primary Branch / Stem
Pruning of primary pathways is topping and should be avoided. The whole tree disruption occurring after primary path pruning is immense and damages the tree for the rest of its life. Root shoot growth, resource allocations, and tree effectiveness to respond to environmental changes are compromised. 
Pruning Impacts
Given the mechanisms of how trees adjust internally to the functional balance of shoot / root, and how the tree correlates growth processes, greenwood pruning impacts can include: 
failure of the tree to generate food. 
failure of the tree to generate fuel for nitrogen (and other materials like phosphorus) uptake. 
loss of significant volumes of storage space and initiation of storage connectivity problems. 
use of significant amounts of stored food reserves in reallocation processes. 
major disruption and modifications of control fields and pathways (connection between shoot and root), similar to the reallocation or initialization of the system during Spring start-up - a period of confused control messages, resource allocations, and defenses. 
control field signals are generated for immediate shoot initiation and release. 
growth control pathway, in the short run, initially request the growth of any primary or active pathway roots where carbohydrate is available following these priorities: 
healthy primary pathways stimulate many new growing points. 
healthy active pathways stimulate a few growing points. 
marginal and unhealthy pathways stimulate no growing points. 
under warm temperatures, food supplied in the transport pathway from the pruned branch will be used before the slow moving growth control field changes - a lack of switch and food synchrony. 
growth control pathway, over the long run as shoots are rapidly expanding and generating food, requests minimal root growth. 
new expanding sprouts generate stronger and stronger growth control pathways, disrupting primary and active pathways already functioning. 
Conclusions
The summary result is the whole tree is stunted by pruning of living tissues. The stunting effect is developed by (regardless of control field effects on a few released sprouts): less shoots, less roots, less carbohydrate supply, less storage, and less nitrogen uptake. Shoot and root impacts are proportional to the amount and strength of the growth control path destroyed. Pruning should concentrate only on a few active and all marginal pathways as the primary paths will be maintained (sometimes strengthened). Timing of pruning for minimizing whole tree impacts would be dormant season and mid-summer, if pests can be minimized."


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## thejdman04 (Jan 16, 2009)

I think it looks great the way it was done


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## ROKFISHIN (Jan 16, 2009)

*Ouch!*

Ok guys, I get the message.......but........ 

I should say that this "elevating" was a compromise between me and the home owner. He originally wanted to remove several of the larger white oaks and hickory, but I changed his mind. He also wanted some of the trees closest to the house to be topped, because he has a friend who had his done in the "classic carolina round over" fashion that is so common around here. They just bought the house and wanted it to be seen. He also wants grass.

Also know that some of the "poles" that you are referring to on the right side of the yard were not trimmed, at least not by me. I removed several small gums and elms that really opened it up, along with 2 bradford pears. There were also several trees that were all over the gutters and shingles. They were raised to clear the roof, instead of removing them.

I will admit that a couple of trees were overdone, and I will take this whipping from you guys as a lesson learned, and I will also use this as ammo for the next guy that wants his trees skinned or topped. 

Also know that all work was done without the use of hooks, something that is rare for these parts.

Some of you guys are harsh!!!


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## S Mc (Jan 16, 2009)

Rok,

Good attitude! You will do well in this field. Stay true to yourself and the trees.

Sylvia


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## Ed Roland (Jan 16, 2009)

S Mc said:


> Rok,
> 
> Good attitude! You will do well in this field. Stay true to yourself and the trees.
> 
> Sylvia



:agree2:


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## ropensaddle (Jan 16, 2009)

ROKFISHIN said:


> Ok guys, I get the message.......but........
> 
> I should say that this "elevating" was a compromise between me and the home owner. He originally wanted to remove several of the larger white oaks and hickory, but I changed his mind. He also wanted some of the trees closest to the house to be topped, because he has a friend who had his done in the "classic carolina round over" fashion that is so common around here. They just bought the house and wanted it to be seen. He also wants grass.
> 
> ...



All pros are harsh but a lot can be learned I suggest you buy Arboriculture 
integrated management of landscape trees,shrubs and vines.


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## Toddppm (Jan 17, 2009)

Sounds like you did the best you could under the circumstances. Taking out a few to make room was a good idea. I can see now where you did that and it makes it look like you skinned up the rest more than you did.
Eventually they might change their mind years down the road when they realize it's a losing battle to have grass and sun in the woods, reseeding every year and not having to pay so much for AC might smarten them up.


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Jan 17, 2009)

Me thinks a little overdone but "the customers always right". Wait until they sprout next Spring. Little suckers all over those nice, clean trunks. 

You did what the customer wanted, but ill advised.  You created to much wind-sail. Doomed for failure during higher winds.


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## JeffL (Jan 18, 2009)

OLD CHIPMONK said:


> Me thinks a little overdone but "the customers always right". Wait until they sprout next Spring. Little suckers all over those nice, clean trunks.
> 
> You did what the customer wanted, but ill advised.  You created to much wind-sail. Doomed for failure during higher winds.



Job security. Hopefully he'll be the one they call when they snap and end up on the house. 

:greenchainsaw:


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 18, 2009)

There is still a pretty solid canopy there, I don't think the wind is going to be much of an issue. If the trees were standing alone then I would say yes. 

The suckers will show up, that's where they will have to be maintained if you want to keep them that way.


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## clearance (Jan 18, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> looks fine to me if that's what the customer wanted.



Yep. Good job.


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## ccrider2240 (Jan 24, 2009)

*Took the Panties off 'em*

WoW looks like you took the panties off her.... Ha. Leave a little fuzz down there man, You could easly decked out some some lower cool baranches and acheived the same thing ,,,, but would be way cooler,,,,,, Man if that was what the HO wanted i guess,,,, but I would of steered in another direction. 

Nice cleanup


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## ccrider2240 (Jan 24, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Wow, you rocked them baby's hard! I should know, I've done it before, lol.



Ha me too LMAO


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