# Is this safe to climb on?



## Nailsbeats (Mar 10, 2008)

Here is the new bridge I put on my Butterfly. I am not sure what the knot is, I freestyled it. I have climbed on it once already and it held fine. I think it might be just a square knot. I taped the tails back so the knot is low profile and the bridge has plenty of room to float on. Not sure of the safety factor, but it has worked in 3 trees already. Let me know what you all think.


----------



## frodo (Mar 10, 2008)

are you serious?


----------



## Slvrmple72 (Mar 10, 2008)

Looks good. Did you locktite the clevis pins? They look like the weakest link in your setup and merit the most concern. I think that if you regularly inspect your setup like the rest of your gear you should be fine. The next step would be to splice eyes in both ends of your bridge to connect to the pins.


----------



## Canyonbc (Mar 10, 2008)

frodo said:


> are you serious?




Well if he is..

and i have no experince with home made bridge like that...

but is a buntline specialized for these situations...

I would use a Bowline before what ever you have there. 

http://www.wtsherrill.com/treetips/treetips.asp?idAtype=rec

As an example of the Buntline...if you click on it. 

Mike..

Hey this is my 1,000 post....


----------



## frodo (Mar 10, 2008)

i would not trust my life to a knot i made up, what if you fall and shock load your climbing line and the knot fails?


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 10, 2008)

frodo said:


> are you serious?



Yes I am.


----------



## frodo (Mar 10, 2008)

that is simply an over hand knot tied around your clevis. danger!!!


----------



## fireman (Mar 10, 2008)

nailsbeats have you tried a prusik with triple fisherman it may be safer if you shock load your system you can also have room for different adjustment for distance and height on your rig.


----------



## kennertree (Mar 10, 2008)

I wouldn't use that, it can come loose. Looks like a figure 8, or just an overhand knot. Use a termination knot like a double fishermans or something.


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 10, 2008)

I wouldn't use that knot.

Try a Buntline, Anchor hitch or a Double Fisherman's loop (one half of a Double Fisherman tied around the standing end).

All of these are in your Tree Climber's Companion.


----------



## Magnum783 (Mar 10, 2008)

I built a bridge for my Master Deluxe, used the same BFII clevis that you did I used little smaller cord(3/8" ultra tech smaller and stronger) which made for a smaller knot and then used a Double fisherman. Worked great and the smaller cord kept the weight down and made for a smaller knot. I trust the double fisherman's knot very much I use that for a termination knot of my climbing line every time. Easy to tie and never come un done it is also a very small knot. Just my opinion.

Jared


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 10, 2008)

The pins had locktight on them which I will redo when I figure this out. Shock load is what I am concerned about. I was gonna name this the Nailsknot, turns out it may be an overhand knot? I think the buntline is what I might want. I will cut a new bridge and give it a try. The dog can have this bridge and this guy :spam:.


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 10, 2008)

Magnum783 said:


> I built a bridge for my Master Deluxe, used the same BFII clevis that you did I used little smaller cord(3/8" ultra tech smaller and stronger) which made for a smaller knot and then used a Double fisherman. Worked great and the smaller cord kept the weight down and made for a smaller knot. I trust the double fisherman's knot very much I use that for a termination knot of my climbing line every time. Easy to tie and never come un done it is also a very small knot. Just my opinion.
> 
> Jared



I will definitely look into the 3/8 line. That's gotta be the ticket. Thank you.


----------



## oldirty (Mar 10, 2008)

hey bud. me again.

your knot looks to be an 8 onto your clevis's. ummm i wouldnt. 

you might want to go with a couple double fishermans instead. or even a scaffold knot (triple fisherman). i have alot of faith in the fisherman knots. feel free to use em. everyone is doing it!


i use the 8 to terminate the end of my line so it doesnt slip through my hitch not to hang on it. lol


stay safe man.


----------



## Magnum783 (Mar 10, 2008)

Ultra tech is expensive mind you 1.29 for 1' of 5/16" or 1.63 for 1' of 3/8" both are super strong and hold their shape perfectly. I also don't use a ring I just use what ever biner I tie into with the Arm'd one's or the OX ones work the best as far as staying loaded correctly.
Jared


----------



## oldirty (Mar 10, 2008)

dont forget to loctite the sh1t out of those clevis too once you get set into how you want to run that saddle.


----------



## oldirty (Mar 10, 2008)

nothing wrong with using some extra climbing line too as your bridge. then you wont need to buy extra ropes. i got 1/2in trueblue as my bridge. just a couple feet of the end of your climbing line.


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 11, 2008)

Nails, Have you thought about using an eye to eye for a bridge. 
It'd be the cleanest , most streamlined and strongest bridge possible.
It would be pricey , but worth it.

What's the length of the bridge you are using ?


----------



## eljefe (Mar 11, 2008)

*Re what knot*

Hi, If you pull the clevis out of the knot it is easy to see it is a figure of 8 knot. I would not trust the knot. Shock loads could start it to roll toward the bitter end and the knot would roll off the end of the rope. I would, as others have already suggested, use a double fishermans knot, or a double figure of 8. The double figure of 8, I understand, is the knot that looses the least strength- the strongest knot. In both of these knots the bitter end comes out along side the working end. I tend to whip these together. I quick glance at the whip will tell you if there has been any slippage--mostly though it looks nicer. A bowline would work but I have understood a bowline can roll down a rope under shock loads and you should always tie a stopper knot in the end- a figure of 8 or a fishermans knot.


----------



## 2FatGuys (Mar 11, 2008)

*Figure Eights?*

Nope... 

As Frodo said earlier, those are simply overhand knots. To be figure eights, there would need to be a wrap taken around the standing end of the line prior to going through the loop.

I like the idea of the loop-to-loop, but I've only seen them in lengths too long for bridge use.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Mar 11, 2008)

Yeah, they look like overhand knots to me, I wouldn't trust them. Even though I don't use a bridge ( like to just clove hitch my D rings together every time ) if I did I would probably just use a Bowline but only because I know it. I've never used a fisherman but I will now look into it. Next stop, google.


----------



## masterarbor (Mar 11, 2008)

just in case one more opinion is what it is going to take to get you to NOT climb on the overhand knots, here it is. I use bundt line hitches on all my terminations. i've used it for years and never had a problem. good luck!


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 11, 2008)

fecrousejr said:


> Nope...
> 
> As Frodo said earlier, those are simply overhand knots. To be figure eights, there would need to be a wrap taken around the standing end of the line prior to going through the loop.
> 
> I like the idea of the loop-to-loop, but I've only seen them in lengths too long for bridge use.



Most eye to eyes come in 28 in. lengths, or you could double it and secure both ends on one clevis. Though that would probably be too long or short.

But, sherrrilltree will splice any cord you buy from them to any length.
You just draw out what you want with measurements and fax or email it to them.

Also , what about ordering a B2 replacement bridge from sherrilltree.
they come in 2 sizes (9.84 in. and 11.81 in.) for 23.00

Or you could order a replacement bridge for one of the new Sequoia's from Petzl.

I'm a big fan of the knot less termination. For the lack of bulk and the increased strength. If you decide to go with a splice , you have a lot of options.


----------



## eljefe (Mar 11, 2008)

*Re Knot*

Weelll. Hmmm. I tied the knot as I looked at it in the pictures, pulled out the rod I used in place of the clevis pin and I had a figure of eight. I tried it again and same same. Then I tied an overhand knot and tried to make it look the same as the upper picture, and I can do that too. Without seeing the backside I can make the front look the same with either. But....we diverge...all agree the knot shown is not safe to climb with. And there are a number of real good, safe, options to use that all agree are safe to climb with which many of us have come back with.
eljefe


----------



## Mikecutstrees (Mar 11, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> But, sherrrilltree will splice any cord you buy from them to any length.
> You just draw out what you want with measurements and fax or email it to them.
> 
> Also , what about ordering a B2 replacement bridge from sherrilltree.
> ...



X2 more streamilined, lighter and safer.....


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 11, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> Most eye to eyes come in 28 in. lengths, or you could double it and secure both ends on one clevis. Though that would probably be too long or short.
> 
> But, sherrrilltree will splice any cord you buy from them to any length.
> You just draw out what you want with measurements and fax or email it to them.
> ...




Is the replacement bridge the same as the stock bridge? I took off the stock one not because of wear, but because it looked so weak and many people on here said to get rid of it. Will the replacement be stronger? I looked on Sherill, but they didn't have a picture. My custom bridge is the same length as the stock Butterfly bridge, I will have to go home to get the measurement.


----------



## oldirty (Mar 11, 2008)

yah i hear you about that bridge. it was the only thing i would look at when i was hang'n off the ball. i hate that bridge, just doesnt look all that appealing when your hanging all you got on it.



"double figure of 8" 

it has a nice ring to it. just rolls off the tongue.


----------



## impetus (Mar 11, 2008)

I would just simply take a short piece of rope and splice an eye in each end ,DONE.


----------



## oldirty (Mar 11, 2008)

well isnt that just simply awesome.


----------



## impetus (Mar 11, 2008)

I sure think so.


----------



## frodo (Mar 11, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> The pins had locktight on them which I will redo when I figure this out. Shock load is what I am concerned about. I was gonna name this the Nailsknot, turns out it may be an overhand knot? I think the buntline is what I might want. I will cut a new bridge and give it a try. The dog can have this bridge and this guy :spam:.



i thought of useing old strands of rope for the dog to chew on... then i thought what if that little turd devlops a taste for fine rope and chews a big hunk out of some of my gear. hes just gonna have to stick to rawhide


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 11, 2008)

The problem with that rope is that the bury would not be long enough for an eye & eye splice to be to spec.

Maybe a Tenex double end eye splices.

I would use a fishermans on each end, 2-3 turns. I have some 3/8 inch stablebraid that would work good if you want some, you pay for shipping, or come down and get it.

It looks like you have an overhand knot there, which is a single turn fishemans knot, one could say after reading Mahk Adams article a month or so ago. The creep too much to be safe.


----------



## DonnyO (Mar 11, 2008)

The bridge can be spliced out of tenex then covered with a jacket and whipped into place, they sell them for the treeflex I don't see why it wouldn't work just as well for the bfly. 

I use 1/2'' with double fishermans on each end, but not around the clevis. It's just too damn big to pull through.

oh and to answer your question NO


----------



## tomtrees58 (Mar 11, 2008)

*climb*

no are you nuts there is arborist here not just Joe homeowner's i have Ben one for 33 years tom trees :monkey:


----------



## DonnyO (Mar 11, 2008)

a pic is worth a thousand words


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 11, 2008)

Why would'nt you just purchase the corect saddle for what you are trying to achive in the first place?? What is all this need to "personalize" your saddle beyond safety? Think it makes you a pro ? I would just go with a buckingham versatile and maybe a HDP roller if it were my plan to impress- I wouldnt bother trying to create things that don't exist for no reason, JMHO. Personally I still use a dinousaur saddle with no leg straps, and a few all important modern add-ons.


----------



## DonnyO (Mar 11, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> I wouldnt bother trying to create things that don't exist for no reason, JMHO. :



are we all the same? there is no need for change?? 

if everyone agreed with the brilliant statement that I quoted above we'd all be climbing on manilla rope in bowlin'on bightes.........


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 11, 2008)

DonnyO said:


> are we all the same? there is no need for change??
> 
> if everyone agreed with the brilliant statement that I quoted above we'd all be climbing on manilla rope in bowlin'on bightes.........



I'm sorry, I meant to say "why bother trying to re-invent things that allready exist at the risk of our own peril" ?


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 11, 2008)

DonnyO said:


> are we all the same? there is no need for change??
> 
> if everyone agreed with the brilliant statement that I quoted above we'd all be climbing on manilla rope in bowlin'on bightes.........



There might even be less room for error due to shear mastery...


----------



## DonnyO (Mar 11, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> I'm sorry, I meant to say "why bother trying to re-invent things that allready exist at the risk of our own peril" ?



So, the perfect saddle has already been invented?? Where can I get one?


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 11, 2008)

DonnyO said:


> a pic is worth a thousand words



Thanks for the picture man. I will try that too, I am open to all suggestions, there have been many mentioned here.

Tree MDS, what makes me a pro is the fact that I make money taking down trees. All it takes to buy gear is money, you can't buy experience. Agreed, gear does not make you a professional. Impress? I don't give 2 sh1ts about impressing anyone, it's about learning and helping others to learn.


----------



## impetus (Mar 11, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Here is the new bridge I put on my Butterfly. I am not sure what the knot is, I freestyled it. I have climbed on it once already and it held fine. I think it might be just a square knot. I taped the tails back so the knot is low profile and the bridge has plenty of room to float on. Not sure of the safety factor, but it has worked in 3 trees already. Let me know what you all think.



If you would even consider climbing with this setup then you don't belong in that saddle and you need to get a few years of ground experience under your belt.(yes I see the pun )


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 11, 2008)

oldirty said:


> yah i hear you about that bridge. it was the only thing i would look at when i was hang'n off the ball. i hate that bridge, just doesnt look all that appealing when your hanging all you got on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey oldirty, do you have a picture of your bridge you could show me or direct me to. I would like to have a look. I happen to have a hank of that true blue you speak of. Thanks


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 11, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> The problem with that rope is that the bury would not be long enough for an eye & eye splice to be to spec.



I agree with you JPS. The length wouldn't be enough for a normal splice.
But he could use a Grizzly splice from Sherriltree. And it would be stronger than a regular splice, although not as trim.


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 11, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> Nails, Have you thought about using an eye to eye for a bridge.
> It'd be the cleanest , most streamlined and strongest bridge possible.
> It would be pricey , but worth it.
> 
> What's the length of the bridge you are using ?



Just measured it, the length of actual usuable bridge is 12"


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 11, 2008)

impetus said:


> If you would even consider climbing with this setup then you don't belong in that saddle and you need to get a few years of ground experience under your belt.(yes I see the pun )



Just curious, where do I belong if I climbed in it already?


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 11, 2008)

Originally Posted by Nailsbeats : "Just measured it, the length of actual usable bridge is 12"

Nails, you could get a Grizzly sliced eye to eye that would have the same usable length.

You'd have to add a little bit to the overall length to get the same usable length.


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 11, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> Nails, you could get a Grizzly sliced eye to eye that would be the same.



Where do I get one of those? Is that the bridge in Sherill?


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 11, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> The problem with that rope is that the bury would not be long enough for an eye & eye splice to be to spec.
> 
> Maybe a Tenex double end eye splices.
> 
> ...



JPS, thanks for the offer. I might take you up on it, I will need a little time to play though. As I progress more to new school climbing I might have to come down and visit you. I actually met a local guy the other day when I bought my 200t that said you and Tom Dunlap taught him more in 4 hours than he could have ever learned on his own. That's good to hear.


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 11, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Where do I get one of those? Is that the bridge in Sherill?



No, it's a differant product.

Hold a few minutes , I'll post a pic.
I measured the splice length, it's about 2 5/8 in 

Sherrill will custom splice any rope product they sell in any length you want with this grizzly splice.


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 11, 2008)

Nails, Here's a pic:


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 11, 2008)

Here's a close up :


----------



## Magnum783 (Mar 11, 2008)

Reach do you like those splices well enough. Do they seem to hold up? Do they resist wear ok. I have thought about them just haven't found too many people that like them but if you like them I would be curious to hear your outake.
Jared


----------



## impetus (Mar 11, 2008)

that's exactly what you need. Have one made to the size you need and your loggin'


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 12, 2008)

Magnum783 said:


> Reach do you like those splices well enough. Do they seem to hold up? Do they resist wear ok. I have thought about them just haven't found too many people that like them but if you like them I would be curious to hear your outake.
> Jared



Yeah, I love the Grizzly eye to eyes. It's supposed to be stronger than a regular splice.
I have a bunch of them in the ICE and TENEX. 
I use the ICE for my climbing hitch (Vt or Distel) and the TENEX for my lanyard adjuster(Distel).
Although the ICE would work well for ether one.

The cordage will wear out long before the splice shows any wear. The plastic covering really helps with abrasion. 
And the tight eye prevents most carabiner rolling and slipping.

I wouldn't go back to hand tied prussics after using the Grizzly eye to eyes.
The only drawback is the cost, they're crazy expensive. But all equipment can be wrote off on your taxes anyway. 
I'd rather put it in equipment than give it to Uncle Sam. 

Plus they're just so streamlined and worry free. 

I haven't used a Grizzly eye to eye for a bridge yet, but I'm sure it would work great. You would just have to get the right rope or cordage and sizing.

But for your climbing hitch, I know they're the best way to go.
Ditto if you use a prussic for your lanyard adjuster.`

Add a coil of tight eye spliced Poison Ivey hi Vis rope and you've got a high speed low drag climbing system !


----------



## safeT1st (Mar 12, 2008)

*Got me wondering ?*

This thread has me wondering : Why is someone with that gear unable to identify the knot he put his life on the line with ? Seems to me any individual whether he be pro or recreational should know his knots inside out and blindfolded. Personally , I never left the ground before I knew my knots . Unless I have missed something (if I have please forgive me ) this is a no brainer . Put your feet firmly on the ground , decide which of the PROVEN knots you choose to use , learn them front to back and then climb . I personally would never trust a shackle with a loctited pin ! If you must use a shackle lockwire it ! To present an overhand knot ( looks to me to be one) tied to a pin and ask this forum to identify it and then approve it is insulting . Judging by the quality of the rope and your apparent familiarity with it's purpose you should know better .


----------



## safeT1st (Mar 12, 2008)

*Most Suprising of All*

Most suprising thing here to me is that our well versed members are offering all these complex knot solutions to an individual that can't identify the one he climbed with . After all , a knot is either recognized and proven or it is not . The example given appears to be recognizable as an overhand and if it is then it is not proven climb worthy .


----------



## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 12, 2008)

Kind of like playing " Russian Roulette ". You'll never know.


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 12, 2008)

safeT1st said:


> This thread has me wondering : Why is someone with that gear unable to identify the knot he put his life on the line with ? Seems to me any individual whether he be pro or recreational should know his knots inside out and blindfolded. Personally , I never left the ground before I knew my knots . Unless I have missed something (if I have please forgive me ) this is a no brainer . Put your feet firmly on the ground , decide which of the PROVEN knots you choose to use , learn them front to back and then climb . I personally would never trust a shackle with a loctited pin ! If you must use a shackle lockwire it ! To present an overhand knot ( looks to me to be one) tied to a pin and ask this forum to identify it and then approve it is insulting . Judging by the quality of the rope and your apparent familiarity with it's purpose you should know better .



Good post. When I was 18 or so I was learning to climb down in FL and we used to make our own lanyards out of old climbing line, one day I was up on a freshly tied one with two overhands connecting it to the d ring on my left, I went to lean back and felt the overhands "unraveling", luckilly I was able to grab the trunk and save myself from falling 25' onto the Ficus leader below me, about right in the middle of my back-then I would have fallen onto a chain link fence. That night even as young as I was I knew I was lucky and learned some respect for safety. After that I switched to stationary bowline.


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 12, 2008)

safeT1st said:


> I personally would never trust a shackle with a loctited pin ! If you must use a shackle lockwire it !
> 
> To present an overhand knot ( looks to me to be one) tied to a pin and ask this forum to identify it and then approve it is insulting .





First off, the shackle and loctited pin came stock from the store I bought the saddle at. Second, I never asked anyone to identify the knot, and I never ever approved it. If I did I wouldn't be asking about it, just wondering what other's opinions were. You seem to have a good view from your high horse. Hope this clears things up.


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 12, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> Here's a close up :



Thanks Reach, now I have so many options I can't make a decision. lol


----------



## jomoco (Mar 12, 2008)

This whole thread strikes me as dangerous for folks who make a living with razor sharp cutting tools. 

I'm a firm believer in old school minimalist techniques and procedures, and they've served me very well for almost 35 years now.

The only venue in which any of these topics makes any sense to me would be in recreational climbing where sharp cutting tools are only used in an emergency.

That's why steel wire core lanyards were developed and are now widely used by chainsaw wielding treemen who value their lives and the well being of their family.

I hope that the topics being bandied about in this thread are recognized as dangerous by newbies that want to live a long productive life in this business.

These are just the opinions of a veteran climber happily suffering the ravages of old climbers disease.

Anyone using the systems being promoted in this thread better have perfect control of their cutting tools 100 percent of the time if they want to live very long in the tree biz IMHO.

Work safe!

jomoco


----------



## safeT1st (Mar 12, 2008)

*Semantics*



Nailsbeats said:


> safeT1st said:
> 
> 
> > I personally would never trust a shackle with a loctited pin ! If you must use a shackle lockwire it !
> ...


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 12, 2008)

jomoco said:


> This whole thread strikes me as dangerous for folks who make a living with razor sharp cutting tools.
> 
> I'm a firm believer in old school minimalist techniques and procedures, and they've served me very well for almost 35 years now.
> 
> ...




I think that ether you don't understand what you are talking about, or you're full of crap.

The subject being discussed is rope bridges for saddles and ways to attach them. Which is totally different from the subject of wire core fliplines.

No one said anything against wirecores. I use one every time I climb.
And the only system I've read described is a spliced end for your climbing rope and a spliced eye to eye prussic tied in a Distel as a climbing hitch , and using a micro mouse pulley as a slack tender. 
As in Overhead tie in point , connected to your middle dee or bridge.

Please enlighten the board in detail and explain what part of this system is unsafe.

Also discussed was using a tenex spliced eye to eye prussic tied in a Distel as a lanyard adjuster. For your wirecore.

Please explain why you find this objectionable. 

And as far as using rope for a bridge materiel, this is the practice on the Butterfly 2, the dragonfly 2, the Glide , and the Tree Motion .
In short, it's almost an industry wide practice concerning advanced saddles.
About the only advanced saddle that doesn't use rope materiel for the bridge, use webbing materiel. Which cuts about as easily.
Using an eye to eye spliced rope as a bridge , only makes it safer trhan a knotted rope bridge.

Please give us your honest opinions as to why using advanced saddles, advanced eye to eye prussics and advanced hitches on your overhead TIP and lanyard are unsafe. 

And lastly, Anyone using any system better have perfect control of their cutting tools 100 percent of the time if they want to live very long in the tree biz . 
Does your old school system allow someone to have less than perfect control of their cutting tools a percentage of the time ?


----------



## beowulf343 (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm not a huge fan of bridge saddles and thus have never used them much. But i do have a couple questions from this thread.

Donny-kind of surprised to see you not tied into the clevis but pulled through and tied. Basically a stopper knot. Is this normal for you bridge users. Just curious as to why you did it this way. (maybe answered by my second question.)

Seeing grizzly spliced being mentioned as a bridge. Now how much does your ring slide around the bridge? Twelve inch bridge, couple inches both ends doubled up, will your ring slide over that bump even on tension or are you going to lose 4 inches of bridge?


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 12, 2008)

A grizzly splice is about 2 5/8 in long. If you want 12 in. of travel, then order the bridge length about 17 in. long. 
Or you might try positioning the bump side of the splice to the front or outside on the clevis. When you load the ring , it should slide from clevis to clevis.

It'd take a little experimenting, but it's do able.


----------



## masterarbor (Mar 12, 2008)

i think jomoco meant for his posting to be in the free climb thread, where it wouldn't be so non-sequiter.:monkey:


----------



## masterarbor (Mar 12, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> I think that ether you don't understand what you are talking about, or you're full of crap.
> 
> The subject being discussed is rope bridges for saddles and ways to attach them. Which is totally different from the subject of wire core fliplines.
> 
> ...



it's true about the innovations- and i don't buy anything i can make.
ie prussiks, lanyards, ascenders etc. strong rope and good knots!
like manilla line and a tautline hitch for example.:jawdrop:


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 12, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> You belong in a line to buy a lottery ticket! LOL.



That's good material right there!


----------



## 046 (Mar 12, 2008)

sure hope you dump that bridge rope where is belongs... in the trash. 

keep on using that and odds will catch up sometime. don't want to read about you getting killed!!!


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 12, 2008)

046 said:


> sure hope you dump that bridge rope where is belongs... in the trash.
> 
> keep on using that and odds will catch up sometime. don't want to read about you getting killed!!!



Yeah, I already took it off. I am woking on a new one with a buntline.


----------



## jomoco (Mar 12, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> I think that ether you don't understand what you are talking about, or you're full of crap.
> 
> The subject being discussed is rope bridges for saddles and ways to attach them. Which is totally different from the subject of wire core fliplines.
> 
> ...



I'm sure you're right on both counts, I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm full of crap for thinking that bridge saddles suck and are inherantly dangerous by design.

It's a wonder that I'm still alive being so dumb and all.

Good luck with your high tech rock climbing saddles guys, I'm sure those bridges on them are real tough stuff, just like I'm sure none of us ever make mistakes or cut stuff we're not supposed to.

Yeah you guys are way smarter than dumb old school buzzards like me.

Carry on with your high tech education thread here, don't mind me at all, I've been full of crap for over three decades now, anybody got any good laxatives?

jomoco


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 12, 2008)

jomoco said:


> I'm sure you're right on both counts, I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm full of crap for thinking that bridge saddles suck and are inherantly dangerous by design.
> 
> It's a wonder that I'm still alive being so dumb and all.
> 
> ...



Jomoco, As usual , you are incorrect on almost everything. 
No one on this thread has been discussing rock climbing saddles.
Do you even read the post you are commenting on ?

You have to be tied to something, with something. And all those somethings can be cut with a chainsaw or a silky.
With varying degrees of difficulty depending on the somethings.

Old school, new school doesn't matter. You still need to avoid cutting yourself, your rigging and your equipment. 

So what was your point?

Oh, but I totally agree with the rest of your post.


----------



## treemandan (Mar 12, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Just curious, where do I belong if I climbed in it already?



Out of 9 lives you spent 10. There is no doubt in my mind God has a plan for you and that is why you are still here with us today. If you don't think this is true then why are you still alive?
Personally, I don't believe you climbed in that at all as it seems impossible. I think you posted it to get a rise.


----------



## DonnyO (Mar 12, 2008)

beowulf343 said:


> Donny-kind of surprised to see you not tied into the clevis but pulled through and tied. Basically a stopper knot. Is this normal for you bridge users. Just curious as to why you did it this way. (maybe answered by my second question.)




Dude, believe you've read me for long enough to know I'm for real. I use it because it works. if you can give me a reason not to,,,, I'll stop...............


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 12, 2008)

Here is an update on the Bridge. I cut a new (longer) rope and made one with double fisherman knots on both ends. I removed the shackles and tied right to the nylon loops in the saddle. 

I have received advice to go with the double fishermans so that's what I tried on this one. Also, removing the shackles removes a potential point of failure in my mind, because of the screws. I would prefer to hear from those with experience in this type of thing, but of course I can't control who chimes in even if they have never seen this type of saddle.

I am wondering if some of you think that giving me advice on a bridge somehow makes you liable? If we are out of line here I would like to here from the moderators. I appreciate what I have learned from this site and don't want to be out of line. That being said, if you have a gripe with me that is fine, I am just shooting straight and will continue until told otherwise.


----------



## impetus (Mar 12, 2008)

I see how you guys would like the bridge setup I guess for turning from side to side but I myself think a saddle ,2 carabiners, a life line with a eye in one end and a persik are all one needs. And for all you continuity cops out there ,A flip line and all safety gear required. Oh ya if you want the bridge setup then why didn't you get a saddle with a floating D ?


----------



## treemandan (Mar 12, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Here is an update on the Bridge. I cut a new (longer) rope and made one with double fisherman knots on both ends. I removed the shackles and tied right to the nylon loops in the saddle.
> 
> I have received advice to go with the double fishermans so that's what I tried on this one. Also, removing the shackles removes a potential point of failure in my mind, because of the screws. I would prefer to hear from those with experience in this type of thing, but of course I can't control who chimes in even if they have never seen this type of saddle.
> 
> I am wondering if some of you think that giving me advice on a bridge somehow makes you liable? If we are out of line here I would like to here from the moderators. I appreciate what I have learned from this site and don't want to be out of line. That being said, if you have a gripe with me that is fine, I am just shooting straight and will continue until told otherwise.



Whew! That looks better. You have a point about the liability. Did you really climb on the original set-up you posted because it seems the knots would just come undone immediately? I don't like those shackles, good for me to see them gone. Notice I didn't tell you what to do either- liabilty.


----------



## Jim1NZ (Mar 12, 2008)

Yea much better. You wouldnt use an overhand knot as your climbing knot would ya so same goes for your bridge.

Watch the rope on rope wear though, im not sure if it will damage your bridge/harness or not but something to keep an eye on.


----------



## 046 (Mar 12, 2008)

not really... nothing to do with liability. just don't want to be responsible for someone getting killed over something that's posted here. 

loads of newbies cruise AS. combine this with loads of jokers on AS who think nothing of posting something really dangerous just for grins. 

take ALL information found on AS with buckets of salt. track down poster's past posts to determine quality. it's not that hard to do really..

if you are green enough to tie a single overhead for a life knot. You need to find a local pro to watch. also need a copy of Jeff Jebson's Tree Climbers Companion. Baileys has em. 

and yes double fishman is a proper termination knot for a lifeline. triple fisherman is better yet. 

here's a pic of a triple fisherman tied properly. note binding is for neatness only, although it does add strength. 









Nailsbeats said:


> I am wondering if some of you think that giving me advice on a bridge somehow makes you liable?


----------



## impetus (Mar 12, 2008)

Watch the rope on rope wear though, im not sure if it will damage your bridge/harness or not but something to keep an eye on.

I used to tie in streight to my belt for years before I started using carabiners and never had a problem.


----------



## (WLL) (Mar 12, 2008)

i keep the shackles on. im glad you asked before something happend. iv been using mine this way for a few yrs, and it works fine. you cant beat the price.


----------



## oldirty (Mar 12, 2008)

jomoco said:


> Yeah you guys are way smarter than dumb old school buzzards like me.
> 
> 
> jomoco





YES!!!!


----------



## oldirty (Mar 13, 2008)

Jim1NZ said:


> Watch the rope on rope wear though,





this is the most important part of this post. the very most.


nails i think you should reconsider the lack of clevis or shackle.

all your weight and constant friction is going to wear on those key points of that saddle. it'll lead to early retirement for an expensive saddle. never mind void of warranty. IE no manufacturer fault if your mod screwed things up.


took me a hot minute to get that saddle to my liking and i am not still there with it but i do believe you want them on.


keep plugging at it though. 


tie that double fisherman's on the other side of the clevis once you reinstall them. that way when your biners are on that ring and run'n along your bridge they will never touch the knots. much like donnyo's. IE. the same. 


stay safe


----------



## impetus (Mar 13, 2008)

You guys are crazy..... I would much rather buy a new belt than trust my life to a shackle, which I have seen come open(yes it was lock tight-ed).Anyway like I said before I have used this dreaded rope on saddle scenario for years and the result was no noticeable wear over years so .......


----------



## minny (Mar 13, 2008)

*I wouldn't trust it.*

I always have used the bowline. It is considered the "king of knots". I would never use a figure8. The bowline has a 60% fail rating. If you use 5000# test rope, well, you're good for 2800#.


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 13, 2008)

jomoco said:


> I'm sure you're right on both counts, I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm full of crap for thinking that bridge saddles suck and are inherantly dangerous by design.
> 
> It's a wonder that I'm still alive being so dumb and all.
> 
> ...


----------



## 046 (Mar 13, 2008)

totally agree... would never trust a shackle for a life line attachment point. which could come undone, locktite or not. if shackle was safety wired, I'd think different. 

you need a failsafe option like a rated device or go rope to rope. New Tribe Tengu Saddle uses a fabric attachment point, instead of side D's. 









impetus said:


> You guys are crazy..... I would much rather buy a new belt than trust my life to a shackle, which I have seen come open(yes it was lock tight-ed).Anyway like I said before I have used this dreaded rope on saddle scenario for years and the result was no noticeable wear over years so .......


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 13, 2008)

046 said:


> totally agree... would never trust a shackle for a life line attachment point. which could come undone, locktite or not. if shackle was safety wired, I'd think different.
> 
> you need a failsafe option like a rated device or go rope to rope. New Tribe Tengu Saddle uses a fabric attachment point, instead of side D's.



That thing looks like a superduty bra, lol.


----------



## D Mc (Mar 13, 2008)

This has turned into a real unusual thread. At first I too thought it was a joke because of the overhand knots. When I (and everyone else) realized it wasn't, it certainly brought out the opinions and advice. I am not going to offer either, but I will tell you what I do. 

I am currently using the Glide saddle that has a rope bridge that when it (the bridge) wore out, instead of replacing it with a new "store bought bridge", I cut the aluminum rings off and tied a new rope bridge into the leg and waste band loops exactly like Nails did in his last pictures (with the double fisherman's). The only thing I did different was to add a thimble to reduce the rope on fabric wear. 

I also use a pulley instead of a sliding ring. So far I really like this set up. It enables me to quickly (and affordably) change bridges when necessary. You do need to watch the double fisherman's knot when they are freshly tied as it takes awhile for them to set. You need to keep an eye on the tails and make sure they set properly. 

Okay, one bit of advice (and this is from another old timer, 55 years old, climbing for almost 40 years) I use a lot of high tec gear but it is backed up with my years of experience. Tree climbing is very unforgiving. When I was training climbers it would take at least 5 years of day in, day out climbing with a coach for them to gain the skills to safely work in all given situations. That's a lot of training. Without having someone to help you, you may make decisions that could put yourself at risk without your realizing it. This is a great profession and can be a long time career, if done correctly. Good luck.

D Mc


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 13, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> jomoco said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure you're right on both counts, I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm full of crap for thinking that bridge saddles suck and are inherantly dangerous by design.
> ...


----------



## treemandan (Mar 13, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> That thing looks like a superduty bra, lol.



AHHHH!


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 13, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> tree MDS said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for giving us your 2 cents TREE MDS
> ...


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 13, 2008)

> So ?? Whats your point at least I'm honest- oh and thanks for taking my comments and breaking them up out of context  I allready addmitted smoking pot- so what? I suppose thats supposed to make me a bad treeguy ? I'll take my 17 years climbing exp. over your 4 lonely years jingle jangl'in about anyday.





The point is you are a drug addict. 
Who admitting to climbing while on drugs.
Your opinion on climbing systems is worthless.


Judging by your post you are stuck in the past in your personel life and in your work methods.


Here's some good advice , TREE MDS

1) Get some help for your drug problem
2) Grow up
3) Adapt
4) Evolve

Someone who is still making the same mistakes after 20 years isn't doing any of the above.


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 13, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> > So ?? Whats your point at least I'm honest- oh and thanks for taking my comments and breaking them up out of context  I allready addmitted smoking pot- so what? I suppose thats supposed to make me a bad treeguy ? I'll take my 17 years climbing exp. over your 4 lonely years jingle jangl'in about anyday.[/UNQUOTE]
> >
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 13, 2008)

Speaking of experience, my dad is my tree trainer and mentor, he has been at it for 35 years, and has run his own crew commercially, now we have a family gig. You know what his advice was, "run a bowline".
He is oldschool and hardcore. Get it done, bottom line. Well I am trying to experience with some more current stuff, still getting the job done though, that comes first. Take the good and leave the bad, but never think you know it all.
He told me about the worthless drug addicts on the commercial scene, well I guess the truth is out.

Funny thing about my dad though, the older I get the smarter he gets. I tell him about the forum all the time and he just laughs.


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 13, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Speaking of experience, my dad is my tree trainer and mentor, he has been at it for 35 years, and has run his own crew commercially, now we have a family gig. You know what his advice was, "run a bowline".
> He is oldschool and hardcore. Get it done, bottom line. Well I am trying to experience with some more current stuff, still getting the job done though, that comes first. Take the good and leave the bad, but never think you know it all.
> He told me about the worthless drug addicts on the commercial scene, well I guess the truth is out.



Nails, if you consider someone a "worthless drug addict" because they smoke a joint on occaision, then so be it, I cant change your opinion. Good luck with your new bridge friend, maybe you can try it out with reach on some rec climb or something.  As for me I'll save the term drug addict for the crackheads, junkies and meth heads.


----------



## reachtreeservi (Mar 13, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> reachtreeservi said:
> 
> 
> > *
> ...


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 13, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> tree MDS said:
> 
> 
> > Years of experience are no quantifier of quality.
> ...


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 13, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> tree MDS said:
> 
> 
> > Years of experience are no quantifier of quality.
> ...


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 13, 2008)

Treemandan, I have to post something just to hit 100 replies on this thread so I will address you about asking me if I really climbed on it. I will answer you in the words of Clearance "everything I have said here is true". I don't blow smoke to get a rise. When I used it I watched it contantly, never shockloaded it, and was tied in twice most of the time. Also, the heights were not extreme. Knots have to be invented and tested somewhere. This may not satisfy you but it's still the truth.


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 13, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Treemandan, I have to post something just to hit 100 replies on this thread so I will address you about asking me if I really climbed on it. I will answer you in the words of Clearance "everything I have said here is true". I don't blow smoke to get a rise. When I used it I watched it contantly, never shockloaded it, and was tied in twice most of the time. Also, the heights were not extreme. Knots have to be invented and tested somewhere. This may not satisfy you but it's still the truth.



You didnt invent it, its a single overhand- or in your're application probably better deemed "the widowmaker".


----------



## safeT1st (Mar 13, 2008)

*Down the Tube*



reachtreeservi said:


> > So ?? Whats your point at least I'm honest- oh and thanks for taking my comments and breaking them up out of context  I allready addmitted smoking pot- so what? I suppose thats supposed to make me a bad treeguy ? I'll take my 17 years climbing exp. over your 4 lonely years jingle jangl'in about anyday.[/UNQUOTE]
> >
> >
> >
> ...


----------



## treemandan (Mar 13, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Treemandan, I have to post something just to hit 100 replies on this thread so I will address you about asking me if I really climbed on it. I will answer you in the words of Clearance "everything I have said here is true". I don't blow smoke to get a rise. When I used it I watched it contantly, never shockloaded it, and was tied in twice most of the time. Also, the heights were not extreme. Knots have to be invented and tested somewhere. This may not satisfy you but it's still the truth.



Oh, here I thought you said you went climbing in it. Of course I took that to mean " you went climbing in it". If you said " I was putzing around with this" I would not have been so surprised, scared actually.
Man did they go nuts on this. I don't even know what is being talked about here. Anyway, nice pictures, bad knot, don't die seeya. 
Why do you feel you have to post something, what happened at 100?


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 13, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> I actually met a local guy the other day when I bought my 200t that said you and Tom Dunlap taught him more in 4 hours than he could have ever learned on his own.



Was that Scott? That was fun, we played in a park for a few hours and went through a bunch of knots and gear.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 13, 2008)

safeT1st said:


> This thread has me wondering : Why is someone with that gear unable to identify the knot he put his life on the line with ?



Because he comes from a tree working family that works oldschool and is trying to better himself. 

There is no one in his area who he can ask, so he came on line.

What always amazes me is people jumping on those less educated/informed/whatever when they come here with a concern.  Who is the insulting one here?


----------



## 046 (Mar 13, 2008)

I'm reading this in disbelief :censored: 

your dad is a climbing instructor... and you would use a single overhand knot and clevis pin for a life line? :monkey: 



Nailsbeats said:


> Speaking of experience, my dad is my tree trainer and mentor, he has been at it for 35 years, and has run his own crew commercially, now we have a family gig. You know what his advice was, "run a bowline".
> He is oldschool and hardcore. Get it done, bottom line. Well I am trying to experience with some more current stuff, still getting the job done though, that comes first. Take the good and leave the bad, but never think you know it all.
> He told me about the worthless drug addicts on the commercial scene, well I guess the truth is out.
> 
> Funny thing about my dad though, the older I get the smarter he gets. I tell him about the forum all the time and he just laughs.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 13, 2008)

jomoco said:


> I hope that the topics being bandied about in this thread are recognized as dangerous by newbies that want to live a long productive life in this business.
> 
> These are just the opinions of a veteran climber happily suffering the ravages of old climbers disease.
> 
> Anyone using the systems being promoted in this thread better have perfect control of their cutting tools 100 percent of the time if they want to live very long in the tree biz IMHO.



I do not get into trees as big as you do, but I'm in 60-70 ft oaks and elms quite often, and I've not used wire core for years. I climb on a 5/8 VT hitch on 11mm climbing line, though I don't splice it because I like changing ends regularly.

I use spliced slings more often then rigging knots, and put a carrabiner on the end of the rigging line, I've had a GRCS for around 8 years now and love it.

I may have been working in trees for around half the time you have, but I've never cut through the working ends of my rope (got the running end jammed in my saw twice, but it's been 10 years since that)

I will agree that a new climber should start with a basic system, but this is not rocket science. Some of the stuff they are showing at tradeshows is wierd


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 13, 2008)

I wish I knew someone around here that uses a VT, it actually looks very interesting- I'm just the kind of guy that has to see a thing in person/see it tied etc. I climb old style with 2 on bottom 1 on top taughtline. I dont even use a clip, I just tie two overhands on my d's-interestingly enough the way I started this was years ago when my groundman lost my climbing line one day- I had a 600' spool and just started with no clip, I actually was pi$$ed at first but actually found it easier without a clip because there is no clip to get stuck in a crotch-plus your rope gets more even wear, the no clip thing works well on big prunes where you gotta move your tail often and tie in twice. I tried a clip again and got rid of it quick because when limb walking it seemed like my knot at appropriate span was too far away to reach easilly. This system is a little slow for cranework but I dont really do mush of that anyway, I actually bought a split tail just for that but spiked the first 15' pretty quick-too much jingle jangle anyway, but I'll try another just to stay up to date. At least I learned to footlock about twelve years ago, that has helped alot at times.BTW, yes I know I should use a bowline in case I ever need to rescued, but thats a risk I'll take.


----------



## jomoco (Mar 13, 2008)

Even though I'm an admitted old school minimalist, anyone thinking I don't incorporate any of the newer techniques and equipment would be mistaken.

I love the little purple pulley slack tenders, I have leather cambium savers on every one of my Samson true blue climbing lines, and though I'm a technical removal specialist, I use them religiously to protect my expensive ropes from wear and tear, sap etc. I also love speed lines for those pesky limbs over targets as well as the more advanced haul back lines on them for situations where the whole dang tree is way out over a house or building, and total control of the rate of descent is an absolute must.

But here in So Cal in the dog eat dog world of commercial tree service competition, seeing Palmer, Thompkins, Phillips etc at the tree seminars loaded down with their saddles sagging with all those fancy doodads and gadgets is somewhat of a joke for those of us that have to compete and produce or else. Try hauling all that crap up a 160 foot euc on a class 1 prune and you'll see what I mean. An old school guy like me will set his line and foot lock up with nothing but his razor sharp handsaw in a boot scabbard, prune away in a very methodic manner, and if theres any big crossovers or big limbs too big for a handsaw, I'll already have my 200T tied to the end of my climbing line and ready to go without crying out for a groundman to set it up for me. It's called high quality production tree service, and a minimum amount of gear with a maximum amount of pruning ability and knowledge is required to do it competitively.

I bought one of those sliding dee ring saddles along time ago, used it a couple times, and hated it because I couldn't triangulate with it in a stable manner, this meant that whether I was cutting with a handsaw or chainsaw I couldn't push or pull with it without flopping about sliding back and forth on my lower saddle, it drove me crazy, when I'm cutting I want to be secure enough to be able to push or pull with my cutting tool without any unnecessary movement in my saddle period. It also creaped me out only having one dee ring attachment point on my saddle, if for any reason that bridge were to fail, it's game over and you're screwed. Atleast with my old school saddle I can lose one dee ring or its attachment webbing without taking an express ride to the ground so very far below me.

I know many of you think I'm a cantankerous old school jerk, and in many respects I am, I hate dang near everything about these newfangled climbing saddles out now, there itty bitty dee rings, there single point attachment for a bodyline, all those unnecessary loops going around them to get hung up on something at the worse possible time. Give me a clip and a ring on each side that is secure and doesn't move around at all, that's all I need in terms of tool attachment points. I tried out a friends new Sherril saddle with 4 dee rings, and even though it was very comfortable, I hated it for its tiny dee rings, its lower strap buckles location being too high, and particularly its tool clips being an absolute pain in the butt to disconnect a tool from, whoever designed those clips was an idiot. I would never recommend that saddle to anyone that climbs for a living.

I love my old Sierra Moreno eucman 4 dee ring (large dee ring) saddle, once I riveted the tool clips and rings into place, it's become one of my most trusted best friends. When the leather lower attachment straps and buckles wore out, I just took it to my leatherman and he replaced them with heavier saddle leather that's still going strong to this day. Hats off to Don Blair for selling real old school working saddles that last and perform for decades of hard use.

I encourage all newbies to atleast check out the tried and true old school equipment and methods, then carefully select from the newer high tech stuff that makes this dangerous profession a bit easier and safer. It's great to have a wide variety of tools and equipment to choose from for each job you do, but be picky about the amount the you actually take up the tree with you, in my long career my tool truck has been packed full of all kinds of saws and equipment, but when I go up each tree I take the bare minimum necessary to get the tree done safely and right every time.

Work safe guys

jomoco


----------



## Nailsbeats (Mar 13, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Was that Scott? That was fun, we played in a park for a few hours and went through a bunch of knots and gear.



I didn't get his first name, I think I know his last, slim dark haired guy. He had my 200t set up when I got their, I believe he is the son of the saw shop owners. We started talking and of course climbing came up, then he mention you and Dunlap. Buy the end of the conversation he offered to port my 460 and let me try his. Really nice guy, I will probably get a hold of him in the future to show me some jazz. He is the only guy I have ever met in my life that talked about climbing besides my family. I litterally don't know anybody else that climbs trees. 

Everybody around here is a logger or farmer, no body cares if you are a certified arborist. It just isn't here yet. I hope to get certified some day and offer that service if I can find a demand for it. I am trying my best to get educated, for example I don't like to top if I don't have to anymore and pruning with my spikes on has me sweating. Most people are in the same boat, what is proper vs. what I get paid to go.


----------



## masterarbor (Mar 13, 2008)

jomoco said:


> Even though I'm an admitted old school minimalist, anyone thinking I don't incorporate any of the newer techniques and equipment would be mistaken.
> 
> I love the little purple pulley slack tenders, I have leather cambium savers on every one of my Samson true blue climbing lines, and though I'm a technical removal specialist, I use them religiously to protect my expensive ropes from wear and tear, sap etc. I also love speed lines for those pesky limbs over targets as well as the more advanced haul back lines on them for situations where the whole dang tree is way out over a house or building, and total control of the rate of descent is an absolute must.
> 
> ...



well said jomoco, if you've tried it all and found what you like- then yur high tech as far as i'm concerned. i'd like to climb on of those 160' eucs. 100' is sky high around here.
kevin


----------



## pdqdl (Mar 13, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> You belong in a line to buy a lottery ticket! LOL.



Clever ! I did laugh out loud.


----------



## beowulf343 (Mar 13, 2008)

beowulf343 said:


> Donny-kind of surprised to see you not tied into the clevis but pulled through and tied. Basically a stopper knot. Is this normal for you bridge users. Just curious as to why you did it this way.





DonnyO said:


> Dude, believe you've read me for long enough to know I'm for real. I use it because it works. if you can give me a reason not to,,,, I'll stop...............



Jeez, donny, if you can get your head out of your ass long enough, reread my post. I said flat out i have next to no experience on a bridge saddle. Around here, i've only seen the bridges tied directly onto the clevis's like WLL's picture. I had an idea why you do it the way you do but since I DON'T HAVE ALOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH A BRIDGE, thought i'd ask. You have seemed to know your stuff so i figured you had a good reason for running the bridge like you do. Just asking a simple question, looking for a simple answer. I had absolutely no intention of slighting your ability as a climber or calling into question your judgement. I don't care how you set up your saddle, i just like hearing why a pro sets up his saddle the way he does. 



oldirty said:


> tie that double fisherman's on the other side of the clevis once you reinstall them. that way when your biners are on that ring and run'n along your bridge they will never touch the knots. much like donnyo's. IE. the same.



Thanks's oldirty-that's what i thought and was wondering why i haven't seen it more often.


----------



## pdqdl (Mar 13, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> ... I cut a new (longer) rope and made one with double fisherman knots on both ends. I removed the shackles and tied right to the nylon loops in the saddle. ...



As I tuned into this thread this evening, I was showing one of my climbers your photo. We were wondering why you were using the clevises, and we concluded that although not as secure as just tying on (as you seem to have settled on), the clevis might provide good protection against wear on the loops of the saddle. 

Any thoughts on that ?


----------



## pdqdl (Mar 13, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> LOL!
> ...
> I noticed in another thread that Nails has said he often free climbs wearing spikes into tree tops without being tied in. It's hard to miss the developing pattern.



Your comment reminded me of another company/climber I saw recently. All the safety minded folks should get a real good "pucker" feeling from this: the climber was touted by all the ground men as being "the best around", while working about 50 feet up in the tree. 

Safety equipment: spikes. No lanyard, no belt, no climbing line. Crawling way out on branches, cutting large limbs off while catching them with a normal lowering rope arrangement tended by the ground men.

If the limb shook a little too much, I guess he just planned on tightening his grip ! The ground men all stated that he had 15 years experience. I don't see how.


----------



## oldirty (Mar 14, 2008)

beowulf343 said:


> Jeez, donny, if you can get your head out of your ass long enough, reread my post. I said flat out i have next to no experience on a bridge saddle. Around here, i've only seen the bridges tied directly onto the clevis's like WLL's picture. I had an idea why you do it the way you do but since I DON'T HAVE ALOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH A BRIDGE, thought i'd ask. You have seemed to know your stuff so i figured you had a good reason for running the bridge like you do. Just asking a simple question, looking for a simple answer. I had absolutely no intention of slighting your ability as a climber or calling into question your judgement. I don't care how you set up your saddle, i just like hearing why a pro sets up his saddle the way he does.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks's oldirty-that's what i thought and was wondering why i haven't seen it more often.





its funny you two having a little back and forth. 

i was just telling someone the other day that if they had any questions about how they might want to do something tree related you two guys were the ones to chat with.

and now this. lol





anyway yup. if i hadnt switched out those clevis for bigger screw lock d rings, donnyo's rope bridge would be on my saddle. i switched to the bigger 
ring to help lengthen the saddle out. i cant do my bridge like his with my setup.


----------



## tree MDS (Mar 14, 2008)

YAARRrr...


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 15, 2008)

oldirty said:


> i switched to the bigger
> ring to help lengthen the saddle out. i cant do my bridge like his with my setup.




I like the delta link, or ovals. I have several delta links on my Master


----------



## 046 (Mar 15, 2008)

just put my money where my mouth is... in post above. stated New Tribe Tengu saddle had fabric D rings and was OK to use rope to rope. 

just ordered a Tengu saddle direct from New Tribe customized with proper leg sizing to belt and stainless pear link. currently using blakes, but if I chose to use VT, two binners will fit fine. 



John Paul Sanborn said:


> I like the delta link, or ovals. I have several delta links on my Master


----------



## southsoundtree (Mar 15, 2008)

looks like you're trying to re-invent the wheel. 

that looks like it will work loose. 

There are much better termination knots to choose from. 

feel lucky that your tests didn't kill you. 

good luck. Be safe. use conventional wisdom when your life depends on it. My friend is famous for saying, "Well, I can't figure out why it should be done that way." Same friend that has been to the hospital enough that they probably know him by name, and that's with him having his own suture kit, lidocane and hypodermic needles.


----------

