# tractor vs skidder



## Barnie (Aug 6, 2008)

I'm going to open a firewood sales business and I'm a trying to decide on what machine to buy a tractor or skidder, both have there advantages and disadvantages. the tractor can be used in both the yard moving logs etc and be used in forest skidding with a skidding winch attachment but a skidder can haul a lot more logs out but has little use at the business site but behind the business location there is a fairly large stand of maple and yellow birch. If you opted for the tractor what would be a good HP size and make to get. 
unsure of what to buy , I know I can't afford both that's for sure.


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## redlaker (Aug 7, 2008)

I think another big consideration would be transportation of the machine.. 

if you get a tractor you could probably haul it on a carhauler trailer behind a pickup, but a skidder you would need a float or a heavy tandem and a dually 1ton at the least. 
tractors are pretty versatile, but skidders are pretty much single purpose, though with the state of the forest industry, there are some deals to be had

there was a thread in the chainsaw forum that had alot of pictures and discussion on using tractors for skidding, and lots of them had the skid winch attachments. I think it was called "tractors in the woodlot" or something like that, probably alot of usefull info there


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## Wolfking42084 (Aug 7, 2008)

Very good debate. IMO though for a firewood lot, you would be better off with the tractor. Like you said, you can pick up logs and skid them from the rear. My experience with firewood is you get a wide variety of material. Size, species, and unique pieces of wood all will be brought in. With my tree business, brush is put in a huge pile and collected until I need to bring in a tub grinder. All material over about 4" goes to my dad and his firewood side business. With the loader attachment, you can re-sell the saw logs that you will constantly have with new loads and even sell the unique pices to local furniture makers. We have a New Holland TN-75ss. It is a great size, with plenty of power and very dependable. good luck in the decision


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## woodfarmer (Aug 7, 2008)

first question would be what is your terrain like, if its hilly farm tractors can be tippy. i use a case ih 5230 90hp with a farmi 501 winch(may need 601) and i've logged some very large beech and maple


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## Stihl051master (Aug 7, 2008)

One other point to consider is a skidder is kind of a single purpose machine. A good tractor with a loader has so many uses that it would be impossible to list them all. Every guy (and good woman) needs at least one tractor.


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## Farmall Guy (Aug 7, 2008)

Another option thats worth consideration is an older crawler loader. You've got a bucket on the front, the flotation of a dozer and if you're luckey you can find one with a winch on the back. Granted ther're a little hard on the ground but stability wise (with the bucket low to the ground of corse) they're alot more stable than a tractor. The bigest expense on any crawler tractor will be tracks and undercairage but if you can find one in decent shape it should last a long time. 

I've got a 440 John Deere that I use for fire wood and I've taken it into places that I wouldnt be able to get a wheeld tractor safely with out getting stuck. I dont have a winch but I still find it to be a very usefull machine.


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## Bushler (Aug 7, 2008)

+1 on the track machine if you're not crossing asphalt or driveways. I have a 941 Cat bucket machine that works nice for a lot of things around the mill yard. 

I have a four way bucket and ripper teeth. With practice you can dress up roads, spread rock, clean ditches, load firewood, grub brush, etc. etc.

Track machines actually are easier on the the ground than tires if you use 3 bar cleats.


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## Barnie (Aug 7, 2008)

woodfarmer said:


> first question would be what is your terrain like, if its hilly farm tractors can be tippy. i use a case ih 5230 90hp with a farmi 501 winch(may need 601) and i've logged some very large beech and maple



how many logs can you pull with that tractor say the size of the ones in the lower picture that you posted?? or is it maxed out with those logs.


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## PA Plumber (Aug 7, 2008)

I do have a 391 C (For sale by the way) track loader I have used to log out about 15 acres and for getting firewood. Works decent most of the time, but horrible in snowy, frozen conditions.

It does make a light footprint and is nice for cleaning up/putting in roads.

For pulling logs often, I would look pretty hard at a skidder or 4 wheel drive tractor with a winch and bucket. I was thinking about 50 horse for what I want to do.

I will say, the 4-in-1 bucket on the loader is excellent for stacking logs and moving stumps.


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## Barnie (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm kinda leaning towards a skidder because of the amount of wood you can bring out in one shot but the thing is loading the firewood processor or the dump trailer this is where the tractor would be very usefull .


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## ms310 (Aug 7, 2008)

*Tractor!*

We use a tractor you can haul as much wood out as you want! Simply take the bucket push the trees into a pile throw the choker on it and pull them out. Take to the stageing area to cut into chunks, and while you are doing that have the kids pull all the branches off to the side. When you are done split the wood and let it fall to the ground. Then take the bucket and scoop it all up and dump it into your dump trailer and haul it home! I dont think it get much easier. Alot of the wood you will never touch! Once at home dump in a big pile for sale. When a customer comes over scoop into the pile and dump it into his trailer...... Simple and saves alot of time and best of all the hardest part of the job is running the chainsaw,,,,,, or should i say the funest!!


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## Barnie (Aug 7, 2008)

With a tractor is it the bigger the better for hauling logs 70-80 plus hp be suitable for this job.


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## Zackman1801 (Aug 7, 2008)

you can really do some work with a tractor, dont underestimate their power and workability. we used to use one with a farmi winch on the back. It only had 4 places for chokers but we would double choker the logs so we could get 6-8 logs out tree length at about 12-20" at the but. not big trees but sure enough for firewood. we had no problems with them and we were only using a 35 or 40hp tractor (wasnt mine so i didnt pay much attention to the HP of it) plus when i got out to the landing with it it was really easy to just unhook and drive the logs up into the pile with the bucket, its not as easy to do with a skidder because of the limited hight the skidder blade can go and the length of the blade. Plus the tractor is good when snow flies you can push back the bankings after the snow plow has filled your landing, its hard to do with a skidder because of the small blade. For your situation i would buy a good sized tractor, a winch, and a bucket. that way you can multi task. the only reason you would need a skidder is if you work on really hilly or in really thick terrain. If its too muddy to get in with a big tractor you probably shouldent be where you are. Plus if you need to you can attach other things to it later on down the road like a mower or brush cutters. tractor is you best bet unless you can find a good skidder for cheaper than the tractor.


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## Ohiowoodguy (Aug 7, 2008)

Been there, done that. I've agonized over the same question for the past 10 years, for the same reasons. I settled on a small 30hp Kubota because of its versatility, nimbleness in the woods, price, and small footprint. It has
industrial tires and a grapple on the 3-point and bucket out front mostly for counter-balance. Its alot slower and weaker than a fowarder, but the landowners love the lack of ruts; and it goes where a big fowarder couldn't. It also rides easily on my log trailer.
Theres a guy in Cleveland building a tracked fowarder/loader with a boom-grapple from used Fecon units. $80K+ and it has no outriggers.
A company in Canada is starting to build a mini-fowarder (Awassos) that looks ideal for us pecker-pole firewood guys, but it starts at $85K


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## abohac (Aug 7, 2008)

Barnie said:


> I'm going to open a firewood sales business and I'm a trying to decide on what machine to buy a tractor or skidder, both have there advantages and disadvantages. the tractor can be used in both the yard moving logs etc and be used in forest skidding with a skidding winch attachment but a skidder can haul a lot more logs out but has little use at the business site but behind the business location there is a fairly large stand of maple and yellow birch. If you opted for the tractor what would be a good HP size and make to get.
> unsure of what to buy , I know I can't afford both that's for sure.


I bought a Farmi 501. I have it on a 5320 JD (about 60HP). Hauls a suprisingly large load with weights up fron (a must). A bigger tractor would be a detriment in the woods. As long as you have a good skidding road you can do alot of work with the little thing. I also might add that I am a farmer so the tractor was already here, all I needed was the winch.


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## Barnie (Aug 7, 2008)

What about the make of the tractor, I know that most guy's have there fav's 
but is there any that I should steer clear of ???
I've been asking questions to one dealer who has a used 2002 Kioti tractor with loader its 65 hp and I think it has 2,500 hrs on it, another one I like is called a universal 530 it's a 1992 and has 3,800 hrs on it all 4 tires on this one are the same size and what about skid plates under the machine .I'll try to post it with this reply.


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## woodfarmer (Aug 8, 2008)

i usually haul four full 20'-30' logs out as i only carry four chokers, i'm sure it would haul six. around here, dealers want as much for a 30hp compact as a good used 90hp, so why bother, i can also pull my log trailer down the road with no problems, yes at time i can be a little big in some areas, but as you know it gets pretty cold up here in the winter its nice to have a heated cab


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## jwarren2165 (Aug 8, 2008)

Try to get a tractor without a cab. In the woods the cab can get in the way. Next thing you know you are shattering a window. With a tractor their is oppurtunity. If you get slow you can buy a bush hog and clean areas and such. The oppurtunity is endless and attatchments. You can get a 80-100 horse tractor for 5000-8000 used. If you buy a case. Make sure if you do buy one the tires are loaded. This will add more weight for traction. Also get your weights in the front end filled to the max to keep your front end on the ground. Pennsylvania has the best prices on tractors Dont just check local dealers. lancasterfarming.com


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## Barnie (Aug 8, 2008)

This is the other tractor I'm asking question on its called a Kioti and its 65 horse power it almost looks like a Kubota, very nice machine. I also see Where a cab could be a problem but it does get pretty cold up here.


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## wmthrower (Aug 8, 2008)

Just like saws, make sure you have a dealer nearby who can get you parts and/or do the service work. Some of the foreign brands are more affordable but parts can be a nightmare to get. 
If you work machinery for any amount of time, it will break. Keep that in mind.


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## woodfarmer (Aug 8, 2008)

i must be some kind of p---sy, but i would never run a tractor in the winter without a cab, drive ten miles down a frozen road in january then get back to me, 8 years with tractor in the bush never scratched a window(knock on wood), that kioti is the perfect tractor i've never heard anything bad about them, what model # is it, 50-60 hp?


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## Barnie (Aug 8, 2008)

woodfarmer said:


> i must be some kind of p---sy, but i would never run a tractor in the winter without a cab, drive ten miles down a frozen road in january then get back to me, 8 years with tractor in the bush never scratched a window(knock on wood), that kioti is the perfect tractor i've never heard anything bad about them, what model # is it, 50-60 hp?



its a dk65 65 horse power I believe and it comes with new set of agricultural tires that are not pictured and it also has air. does your tractor have skid plates on its underside, what about hydraulic hoses do you ever break any by getting them hooked on branchs or whatever.


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## FLCM (Aug 8, 2008)

I've got a Kioti LK3054 with 1300 hrs and have nothing but good things to say about it. What trans does the dk65 have?


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## mimilkman1 (Aug 8, 2008)

Barnie said:


> its a dk65 65 horse power I believe and it comes with new set of agricultural tires that are not pictured and it also has air. does your tractor have skid plates on its underside, what about hydraulic hoses do you ever break any by getting them hooked on branchs or whatever.



Iwould put the agricultural tires on it before doing much in the woods with it. The woods I cut in can get pretty mucky and those turf tires would "load up" with snow or mud pretty quickly. I have traveled in the woods quite a bit with a International utility tractor that is pretty short to the ground and have never had a problem with hitting the oil pan. As far as the hydraulic hoses go, if they did stick out a little you could use zip ties and draw them in closer to the frame if need be. I would worry about valve stems more than skid plates, I haven't had a problem personally, but the loggers that we had in last year had the valve stems covered with a piece of 1 inch pipe welded to the rim and a cap over the end. A cheap preventive measure to have, tires can be expensive to fix esp if you have chloride in them. Not to mention the down time involved in fixing it if you have a good day to cut.

Kyle


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## woodfarmer (Aug 8, 2008)

no skid plates, i try to stay on the trail, funny you mention hoses, this spring i picked up a maple top 20' long and it swung around and caught the loader hoses, jammed in tight against the front wheel, had a heck of a time freeing it, no damage luckily


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## hickslawns (Aug 8, 2008)

I too have a Kioti 3054 and while I haven't had it long it has impressed me. I thought it might be under powered but so far so good. For logging it might be small, but for my personal firewood I should think it would not be a problem. Definately goes places my Bobcat will not due to half the weight. That Kioti DK65 would be a monster.


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## 056 kid (Aug 10, 2008)

Unless Yoy Are In Production, Get The Tractor!!


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## Barnie (Aug 10, 2008)

FLCM said:


> I've got a Kioti LK3054 with 1300 hrs and have nothing but good things to say about it. What trans does the dk65 have?



unsure of trans type, why is there one better than the other??


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## Barnie (Aug 10, 2008)

What type of winch would anybody recommend for logging with a tractor, the only one I ever seen was a Farmi.


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## Barnie (Aug 10, 2008)

056 kid said:


> Unless Yoy Are In Production, Get The Tractor!!


I'm not producing any wood yet but very soon I marked out my lot last week for the town surveyor to do his job. I like the tractor to I'm going to ask if the price includes delivery , its about 2.5 hrs from where I'm at.


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## mysawmyrules (Aug 10, 2008)

The nice thing about an 100 hp +/- ag tractor is that you can always find skidder tires and chains if it does get a little rough going. We have a 9030 Ford / New Holland and the older 276 Versatile that have skidder tires and chains for both and with no fenders on them they will go anywhere. Have seen them done up with duels all the way around as well. And that size of tractor can still be hauled on a smaller truck and trailer combo.
Jon W


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## Barnie (Aug 10, 2008)

If I can only find one that size for the budget I have, something about 65hp to 100hp would be nice for sure.


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## woodfarmer (Aug 10, 2008)

have you looked at the "farm tractor in the woodlot" thread in chainsaw, some great pictures


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## Zodiac45 (Aug 11, 2008)

woodfarmer said:


> have you looked at the "farm tractor in the woodlot" thread in chainsaw, some great pictures



+1 an excellent thread that covers this very subject complete with loads of pix. Use the search function and check it out. 
For a firewood bizz I would defo go for the tractor. It's way more versatile and can work in much tighter conditions than a skidder. You don't harvest huge logs for firewood either so a tractor just makes more sense.


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## FLCM (Aug 11, 2008)

Barnie said:


> unsure of trans type, why is there one better than the other??



It's all operator preference. Both are good transmissions but some find the manual shuttle shift to be an annoyance. The HST is supposed to be faster when shifting from forward to reverse so it would make loader work easier. I have the shuttle shift manual and once you get used to it you can run almost as fast as the hydro trans.


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## A. Stanton (Aug 11, 2008)

I decided on the tractor in my situation.


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## Barnie (Aug 11, 2008)

woodfarmer said:


> have you looked at the "farm tractor in the woodlot" thread in chainsaw, some great pictures



Awesome thread for sure, lots of info.


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