# Who uses a Pantin?



## tree md (Jun 2, 2009)

I'm looking into getting a tree frog system and I'm trying to decide if it's for me or not. I guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and buy one to satisfy my own curiosity. I have to admit I am not big on mechanical devices and do not have a lot of experience with them. I bought hand and foot ascenders a couple of years ago and have played with them a little but have yet to use them in a work situation. 

Anyway, I have been reading about the Pantin that is incorporated into the tree frog system and it occurred to me that it would probably be reasonable to use it in ddrt as well as srt. I have read a lot about guys using one in srt setups but haven't read anything about someone using it ddrt, although the illustration in the Sherrill catalog shows the guy climbing ddrt with one. I have also read that they can be a little difficult to master. The vids I have watched of them being used in srt makes it looks effortless. When compared to watching someone footlock on ddrt it looks so much more effecient. I would feel a lot better about ponying up the bucks for the frog system if I thought I could use some of the stuff in applications other than srt.

Also, how do you pronounce it?

Comments?


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## Tree Pig (Jun 2, 2009)

I was debating trying a pantin, drt I do a lot of hand over hand and I was thinking the pantin may work for tending the slack instead of having to stop and pull it out but I am not sure if will work with just the weight of the rope Srt the tale end is secure so it will run through the pantin.


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## canopyboy (Jun 2, 2009)

I use a pantin with a drt split tail and VT setup. I never got that good at the secured footlock, and the pantin was easy and smooth. The first 5 feet or so you have to work the rope through a bit. After that the weight of the line starts to pull it through. With a micro pulley it tends slack wonderfully.


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## treemandan (Jun 2, 2009)

A nice peice they are and NO, no one knows how to pronounce any of the stuff Petzl has, I don't think you are supposed to.


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## Tree Pig (Jun 2, 2009)

canopyboy said:


> I use a pantin with a drt split tail and VT setup. I never got that good at the secured footlock, and the pantin was easy and smooth. The first 5 feet or so you have to work the rope through a bit. After that the weight of the line starts to pull it through. With a micro pulley it tends slack wonderfully.



awesome thats exactly what I wanted to know, looks like I am stopping at arbor supply this afternoon


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## canopyboy (Jun 2, 2009)

treemandan said:


> and NO, no one knows how to pronounce any of the stuff Petzl has, I don't think you are supposed to.



:agree2: +1


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## tree md (Jun 2, 2009)

Man do I feel like a moron. 

I got my old CMI ascender out and started checking it out. I figured out that you can attach it midline which I didn't think you could. When I first got it I was working with another climber who told me you could not attach it midline (after I had already bought the thing). I had him with me when I tried it out and he showed me how to put it on the rope. Since he claimed to know what he was doing I never questioned what he said. Since I really didn't know what I was doing and didn't trust mechanicals very much I put it away. Goes to show you how much I know about ascenders.

Anyway, I got it out and it was a little rusted where it had gotten wet sometime in storage. I cleaned it with some gun oil and wiped it down real good and it works like a champ. Only thing is it is a left foot ascender. I have bigger muscles in my right leg but I can still get up the rope on it relatively well. It's easier than footlocking for me. I have an old foot injury where I fractured my heel and footlocking makes my foot hurt. It beats the heck out of hip thrusting. 

To tell the truth, most of my prunes around here consist of deadwooding and most of the trees around here have a low canopy. Sure there are the large Pecans and Oaks but for your average tree around here it is no problem to get to the first limb and take off from there. I am just kind of playing with the ascenders right now but I do have some large Oaks to deadwood in the future and I'm going to have to ascend around 60' without spurs. It is a biotch to get that high hip thrusting and foot locking hurts for me so I am checking out new (to me) approaches.

I just ordered On Rope and plan to study that before I incorporate my hand ascender. I want to make sure I back it up properly before I put myself out there with it. I climbed with it (low and slow) a couple of times before and backed it up with a prussic but I'm not sure that it was correct. For right now I am just ascending with the foot ascender and advancing my VT (Ddrt). I only saw a climber climb on ascenders one time before and there's only so much you can learn on the web. Anyway, I got the new school bug. I'm still thinking about ordering a tree frog setup.


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## canopyboy (Jun 2, 2009)

I seem to remember Treeclimber's Companion having some stuff with ascenders too, I assume you have a copy of that? Most of my climbing until recently was some sort of a combination that included ascenders (hand and foot), a DRT loop (not DdRT), and a Blake's (eventually switching to VT) with a micropulley.

I would stand up on the foot ascender, which would also cause the hitch to tend on the pulley. The hand ascender was above the hitch. I would reach up with the hand ascender, hold my weight, and raise my foot. Repeat. You're not really trusting the ascenders if your hitch is working. In fact, I would just rest on the hitch by sliding it up and letting go of the hand ascender. Kick off the foot ascender, unclip the hand one, and attach a figure 8 to descend.

As for buying the Frog system, you already have two of the ascenders, why not just buy the chest ascender seperately? The rest is just some straps/line.


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## tree md (Jun 2, 2009)

canopyboy said:


> I seem to remember Treeclimber's Companion having some stuff with ascenders too, I assume you have a copy of that? Most of my climbing until recently was some sort of a combination that included ascenders (hand and foot), a DRT loop (not DdRT), and a Blake's (eventually switching to VT) with a micropulley.
> 
> I would stand up on the foot ascender, which would also cause the hitch to tend on the pulley. The hand ascender was above the hitch. I would reach up with the hand ascender, hold my weight, and raise my foot. Repeat. You're not really trusting the ascenders if your hitch is working. In fact, I would just rest on the hitch by sliding it up and letting go of the hand ascender. Kick off the foot ascender, unclip the hand one, and attach a figure 8 to descend.
> 
> As for buying the Frog system, you already have two of the ascenders, why not just buy the chest ascender seperately? The rest is just some straps/line.



That is pretty much how I was ascending with the hand ascender but my hitch was above the hand ascender. I'm not sure which is right but after reading about that climber falling onto that iron fence I figured I would read a little bit of what the experts have to say before I go jack legging on my own. I really don't see how you could fall as long as your tied in with a prussic though.

As far as the frog goes, I need to do a little more studying there too. From what I have gathered, you need a left handed ascender to work in conjunction with the croll. The diagram I have shows the Pantin on the right foot, used in conjunction with the croll and a left handed ascender. From what I can see, it looks like you need a left handed ascender to work properly with a croll. Maybe someone can jump in and clarify that.


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## canopyboy (Jun 2, 2009)

tree md said:


> From what I can see, it looks like you need a left handed ascender to work properly with a croll. Maybe someone can jump in and clarify that.



You got me there. I'd like to know now too.


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## tree md (Jun 2, 2009)

OK, I tried the hand ascender backing it up with my VT. I took all the excess out of my prussic and retied my scaffold knots. Still to short to get a good stroke. I put a loop runner on my bridge. Too long. I doubled the loop runner. Still too long. Got stranded about 4 feet off the ground for a minute, lol. I need a longer prussic to get a good stroke. I think I'm just going to get a good length of cord so I can start making my own prussics. I need to get some more stuff to really be efficient but it is definitely easier than what I have been doing.

Edit:

I do have a copy of the TCC CB. It is old and decrepit but still halfway ledgable. I checked it out and it advised to tie your hitch above the ascender.

Got to go look at 6 Elms to prune this afternoon so hopefully I'll be able to use my ascenders for the money on that.


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## VA-Sawyer (Jun 2, 2009)

I started climbing at the age of 50. My second order from Vermeer included a TreeFrog system. Best money I spent on any of my climbing gear was the TreeFrog.

When I started I didn't have much upper body strength and had to rely on the Pantin and the footloop on the ascender to get up the rope. Now I'm in better shape, and I can hand over hand for short ascents, mainly using the Pantin just to tail slack through my knot/micropulley. 

A few safety notes about the TreeFrog system as it comes from Sherrill. They have a line hanging from the bottom of the hand ascender to attach to your saddle. I suggest that you NOT attach it to the same attachment as you use for the Croll. My Croll is attached to the rope bridge of my saddle so the safety line from the ascender is attached to a side ring. This provides a second independent safety in case the primary support point should fail. I also found that the knots on the safety line wanted to work loose every couple of climbs. I fixed that by retying with enough tail to tape. 
You can use the TreeFrog on Doubled rope but I find that the biner on the second end of the climbing line interfers with the Croll on my setup. 

I put the Pantin on my ankle for almost every climb ( except the ones with spikes) and will slip the rope in and out of it as best suits my need for the moment. I will use the Croll for major upward moves because of its low friction on the rope and less "lost motion" during the climb. I add the hand ascender and footloop for climbs over 40' just to keep things easy on the arms.


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## tree md (Jun 2, 2009)

VA-Sawyer said:


> I started climbing at the age of 50. My second order from Vermeer included a TreeFrog system. Best money I spent on any of my climbing gear was the TreeFrog.
> 
> When I started I didn't have much upper body strength and had to rely on the Pantin and the footloop on the ascender to get up the rope. Now I'm in better shape, and I can hand over hand for short ascents, mainly using the Pantin just to tail slack through my knot/micropulley.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. I'm looking for all the input I can get. I am 40 now and have been at this for awhile but never really had anyone to teach me new techniques. I read about all the new stuff on here and other sites and yearn to try some of it out. Hard to do when your busy but I have been painfully slow this year. The main thing is I don't want to get hurt. That's why I put a lot of research in the stuff before I buy and test it low and at my own pace before I incorporate it into my actual work.

I had always thought that a frog system was a sit and stand method, like the cavers use until I recently saw a vid of an arbo rope walking with the tree frog. He made it look so efficient that I am just dieing to try it out. I pretty much had the tree frog system in mind when I bought my latest saddle which is a Petzl that has an independent croll attachment. The manual comes with instructions on how to attach and use the croll. I read about folks having troubles getting them in the proper position with other saddles and kept that in mind when purchasing mine. Looking forward to doing a little more advance rope work and thank you for your advice.


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## Tree Pig (Jun 2, 2009)

I had posted about this system before and have debated trying it, little more money the the frog but very similar in idea.

Mitchell walker system


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## treemandan (Jun 2, 2009)

tree md said:


> Man do I feel like a moron.
> 
> I got my old CMI ascender out and started checking it out. I figured out that you can attach it midline which I didn't think you could. When I first got it I was working with another climber who told me you could not attach it midline (after I had already bought the thing). I had him with me when I tried it out and he showed me how to put it on the rope. Since he claimed to know what he was doing I never questioned what he said. Since I really didn't know what I was doing and didn't trust mechanicals very much I put it away. Goes to show you how much I know about ascenders.
> 
> ...





Hold up. what rust? Rust? where rust? lets see the rust? really? rust?

Is it on the cam's center pin? What else could rust on that?


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## tree md (Jun 2, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Hold up. what rust? Rust? where rust? lets see the rust? really? rust?
> 
> Is it on the cam's center pin? What else could rust on that?



Yeah, I hear ya Dano. I cleaned it up good and inspected it thoroughly. Just a little surface rust. Seems to be in good working order. If I were using it for life support I would probably be more concerned but that is not the case.

Didn't you know that rust never sleeps???


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## canopyboy (Jun 2, 2009)

tree md said:


> Yeah, I hear ya Dano. I cleaned it up good and inspected it thoroughly. Just a little surface rust. Seems to be in good working order. If I were using it for life support I would probably be more concerned but that is not the case.
> 
> Didn't you know that rust never sleeps???



I think he means where is the steel to rust? My pantin is aluminum with a plated cam of some sort. Maybe the spring and hinge pin is steel, but that would be tough rust to clean.


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## tree md (Jun 2, 2009)

canopyboy said:


> I think he means where is the steel to rust? My pantin is aluminum with a plated cam of some sort. Maybe the spring and hinge pin is steel, but that would be tough rust to clean.



A little surface rust on the cam. No biggie. I hear ya though, I like my gear to be tip top and spic and span. It cleaned up well and no problems that I can see. Like I said, not using it for life support either but might be a good excuse to buy another right foot ascender???


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## treemandan (Jun 2, 2009)

canopyboy said:


> I think he means where is the steel to rust? My pantin is aluminum with a plated cam of some sort. Maybe the spring and hinge pin is steel, but that would be tough rust to clean.



OH no, TreeMD knew what I meant. I think sometimes when its real cold that cam set up gonna explode with to much on it. I suppose not but there is not a whole lot of material there to get even a little wore out. Just a little rivet and the light wieght cam. 

I like Treeco's advice " watch out for twigs". Will do Danno, thanks for the warning. I have met one or two guys who wished they put a bypass rope around them things.


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## treemandan (Jun 2, 2009)

Even in the user's book from Petzel it depicts just being tied into the lower hole of the ascender and nothing else. I don't trust them one bit. I look at it for what it is , an ascender, not life support.
But to be honest the thing hasn't ever broke... yet. I like to go with more than just that though.

Petzl has a real cool cataloge.


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## treemandan (Jun 2, 2009)

Didn't you know that rust never sleeps???[/QUOTE]


Well, actually I do.


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## tree md (Jun 2, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Didn't you know that rust never sleeps???




Well, actually I do.





[/QUOTE]

LOL, good one Dano. 

Hey, what was that book you took a pic of with the rigging info a month or so back? Been meaning to ask you about dat one...


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## treemandan (Jun 2, 2009)

Hey thanks for paying attention, it was the Petzl cat. Just walk into any high priced yuppy outdoor outfitter down at the strip mall and ask for one... then walk the hell out and go to your local saw shop to buy it.
Or you could just go to the website?


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## treemandan (Jun 2, 2009)

A lot of what is in the cataloge ( the diagrams) shows things pretty much backed up with separate cordage, the rope acsender is not. I find that rather odd. 
There is a set-up of a frog type deal but that stuff is really getting gear intensive. The way to remain in an upright position throughout a climb is with a chest ascender. It can be done a number of ways and can be impractical as all get out when all you need to do is scoot up 65 feet through the tree.

With a simple srt system ( one hand ascnder, one foot acsender) you should be able to hit TIP from the ground. TIP would be the highest and center-most point right? That is usually straight up the trunk. 
So you can cut while you head up, your foot can find purchase on the rope for support while you cut your way up and in one side. The hand ascender, properly back -up, is going nowhere; you can even flip it so you can come down to position and move around. 
Up to TIP watch out, don't go through the crotch ( you would have to be stupid and weak), so now your just below the place where your srt runs through the high crotch, install your lanyard and slack off the srt enough to move a hair, you should be able to grab one last bite ( a foot or two) with the foot ascender and climb above that point to a TIP above the srt crotch.
Lots of way these rope grabs help out but don'r going betting your life on them.
GOD GAVE US ROPE WITH WHICH TO LIVE...and locking beeners to connect that rope.


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## tree md (Jun 3, 2009)

treemandan said:


> A lot of what is in the cataloge ( the diagrams) shows things pretty much backed up with separate cordage, the rope acsender is not. I find that rather odd.
> There is a set-up of a frog type deal but that stuff is really getting gear intensive. The way to remain in an upright position throughout a climb is with a chest ascender. It can be done a number of ways and can be impractical as all get out when all you need to do is scoot up 65 feet through the tree.
> 
> With a simple srt system ( one hand ascnder, one foot acsender) you should be able to hit TIP from the ground. TIP would be the highest and center-most point right? That is usually straight up the trunk.
> ...



You know I hear a lot about people not being able to stay upright but I had no problems today with just a foot and hand ascender... And believe me I'm top heavy...

Thanks for the tip on the book. I'll check it out.


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## treemandan (Jun 3, 2009)

Maybe I should post this back in the Awakenings forum with that post involving a fence:

The other day I am headed upa katalpa- It was a big one I had worked before and that day I was taking two limbs off the bottom. 2 Limbs 6" and 10" dia over the fence.
Of course I am back there alone and shot a line high enough to be able to swing out to get em. My TIP was allready set for overhead support while cutting.
I put the figure 8 in below the acsender to come down, I can install it while hanging on the rope. I use this to move around a tree I just want to hack a few limbs of the bottom and hit the ground real quick. 
So I was on the 8 coming down, the acender was unlocked and moving slow doesn't let the friction hitch grab. I had just come through some twigs that were being obnoxoious and set the cam back on the acsender so it would lock and started to let off the 8. Well, the end of the story is it didn't grab where I thought it would cause some twigs got in there but what was grabbing when started to let of the 8 was the bypass friction hitch. 
It was easy to lean on the bypass to clean out the acender and from how I see them being used not backing up your ascender is the cause of the accidents I know to have happened. It's dam scary being 120 foot up poplar with just a little rusty rivet.


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## treemandan (Jun 3, 2009)

tree md said:


> You know I hear a lot about people not being able to stay upright but I had no problems today with just a foot and hand ascender... And believe me I'm top heavy...
> 
> Thanks for the tip on the book. I'll check it out.



staying upright while froggin it. Basically what you are doing is footlocking but you have a leg free( if you want) or you can use both and chug.
I n order to frog it you need your weight held from the chest area rather than the hip.


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## tree md (Jun 3, 2009)

treemandan said:


> staying upright while froggin it. Basically what you are doing is footlocking but you have a leg free( if you want) or you can use both and chug.
> I n order to frog it you need your weight held from the chest area rather than the hip.



Gotcha. 

On the previous post. I am with you on that. The frog system employs three ascenders but from what I see you have a hitch to back you up no? I don't know if I'm ready to trust it all to mechanicals...

Not to get too buzzy but did you see the footage of the F8 revolver over there? Pretty slick system. I can see why they're saying the future is SRT. I want to get my head start now...


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## treemandan (Jun 3, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I'll do a little cutting on the way up with my Zubat hand saw but usually on srt I've got a running bowline tied to my tip and my my 200t hanging on the end of my srt line a couple of feet up to put some weight on the rope. Another reason I don't use the chainsaw on the way up is in case I were to be injured I don't want to have to change over to a figure eight or a traditional climbing system to get back down.



I hear you, but knowing the cuts ( and its just a few prime ones) it ain't so bad.

I usually tend just to get a rope through a crotch and head up without trying to isolate a limb. I just feel lucky ( and relieved) to have the throw line and bag back in one piece.
If no one is on the ground I bring another line to climb on if I have to.


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## treemandan (Jun 3, 2009)

tree md said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> On the previous post. I am with you on that. The frog system employs three ascenders but from what I see you have a hitch to back you up no? I don't know if I'm ready to trust it all to mechanicals...
> 
> Not to get too buzzy but did you see the footage of the F8 revolver over there? Pretty slick system. I can see why they're saying the future is SRT. I want to get my head start now...



Does that young man in the video think he is going to be running some sort of saw up there at any given time? 

SO his way to get around the force that which the friction hitch bites on the srt is lessened by the 8. Nice move but maybe to grand a scale.


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## tree md (Jun 3, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Does that young man in the video think he is going to be running some sort of saw up there at any given time?
> 
> SO his way to get around the force that which the friction hitch bites on the srt is lessened by the 8. Nice move but maybe to grand a scale.



Lol, not to mention if he gets hurt up there how the hell are they going to unwrap him???

Still looked pretty cool though.


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## tree md (Jun 3, 2009)

Got another question on the Pantin. 

I have read that it can be kind of hard to keep it on the line, that if you don't advance with your foot just so it will come out of the ascender. Anyone have any problems with that happening? I think I am going to go ahead and order what I need to frog it up after I do my next job this week. I have pretty much decided to go ahead and buy another foot ascender and I'm trying to figure out if I want to go with a Pantin or a CMI.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jun 3, 2009)

I have used a CMI foot ascender for years. No problems, ever. Just remember to close it once you take it off your rope or it may catch your rope when you do not want it to. I found this out the hard way as I limb-walked out at fifty feet with a ftp about twenty feet above me. It was kind of "interesting" as I took a step and found my leg frozen to the limb as the rope grabbed the ascender which then grabbed my foot. One thing: The old ones had this webbing strap that got fuzzy very quickly and would not easily pass through the clip. CMI was very cool about sending me a set of the new Kevlar straps. They work better.


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## tree md (Jun 3, 2009)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I have used a CMI foot ascender for years. No problems, ever. Just remember to close it once you take it off your rope or it may catch your rope when you do not want it to. I found this out the hard way as I limb-walked out at fifty feet with a ftp about twenty feet above me. It was kind of "interesting" as I took a step and found my leg frozen to the limb as the rope grabbed the ascender which then grabbed my foot. One thing: The old ones had this webbing strap that got fuzzy very quickly and would not easily pass through the clip. CMI was very cool about sending me a set of the new Kevlar straps. They work better.



I bought mine about 3 years ago and I'm not sure if I've got the old style straps or the new ones. Mine are black and red and the ones pictured in the catalog now are yellow and black. What color are your new ones SG? 

I'm going to price stuff out and see where I can buy the best value. I would stick with the CMI and Black Ice hand ascender I have now but in the frog demo that Sherrill puts on the guy says you need to use a left hand ascender to work properly with the croll. In the configuration on their diagram it shows a R foot ascender and a L hand ascender. Not sure if I will go with Sherrill. They seem a little high on the complete system at $293. I have seen some go as cheap as $160 without the croll or foot ascender. I'm just going to have to figure out what route I want to take. I have 6 Maples to prune this week and plan to use my existing ascenders on that job. Perfect job to use my ascenders on. Tallest tree is probably 45-50'. Anyway, I will do a little more studying before I buy.


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## treemandan (Jun 3, 2009)

tree md said:


> Got another question on the Pantin.
> 
> I have read that it can be kind of hard to keep it on the line, that if you don't advance with your foot just so it will come out of the ascender. Anyone have any problems with that happening? I think I am going to go ahead and order what I need to frog it up after I do my next job this week. I have pretty much decided to go ahead and buy another foot ascender and I'm trying to figure out if I want to go with a Pantin or a CMI.



It can be a pain and if you mess it you might rip your rope unlike footlocking.

You are not going to want two foot jobbies no. One would rip the other out of the groove each time and that would be fun.
A frog system consists of a foot jobby, a chest jobby and a hand jobby which has a strap to go to the foot that doesn't have the jobby on it. That should do it. And you get used to letting your foot " trail" the line through the jobby ya got there. Five feet is enough weight to keep it running through nice but everybody will come over and yank it out and say" do you want me to hold this?". That is not required as it runs good.


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## tree md (Jun 3, 2009)

treemandan said:


> It can be a pain and if you mess it you might rip your rope unlike footlocking.
> 
> You are not going to want two foot jobbies no. One would rip the other out of the groove each time and that would be fun.
> A frog system consists of a foot jobby, a chest jobby and a *hand jobby* which has a strap to go to the foot that doesn't have the jobby on it. That should do it. And you get used to letting your foot " trail" the line through the jobby ya got there. Five feet is enough weight to keep it running through nice but everybody will come over and yank it out and say" do you want me to hold this?". That is not required as it runs good.



Yeah, I gotcha on the foot ascender. Wasn't planing to use two. I am thinking I will put the other one up for a backup since I let it sit so long and rust. It works fine but I am thinking I would like a right foot ascender anyway. Thanks for the info Dan, I think you just helped me make up my mind.

Edit: forgot to mention that I am a big fan of hand jobbies...


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## Sunrise Guy (Jun 4, 2009)

tree md said:


> I bought mine about 3 years ago and I'm not sure if I've got the old style straps or the new ones. Mine are black and red and the ones pictured in the catalog now are yellow and black. What color are your new ones SG?
> (snip)



You have the old ones. Just call CMI and they'll send you the new straps, no charge. I'm surprised that your black straps are still OK, after three years. Mine fuzzed up after about two weeks, although I climb almost every gig, so they were seeing fairly heavy use.


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## tree md (Jun 4, 2009)

Sunrise Guy said:


> You have the old ones. Just call CMI and they'll send you the new straps, no charge. I'm surprised that your black straps are still OK, after three years. Mine fuzzed up after about two weeks, although I climb almost every gig, so they were seeing fairly heavy use.



Thanks for the tip. I'll call CMI and upgrade before there is a problem. I have barely used mine so there is no wear on them. I'm slow to come around to ascenders. Old dog trying to learn new tricks.


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## TackleTree (Aug 23, 2009)

Does anyone have the petzl foot pantin? 

I am having problems with the adjustment strap creeping through the buckle. The strap that is below the cam. Any thoughts or Ideas on how to prevent this or am I doing something wrong? 

Gets to be a hassle to readjust it halfway up the tree. I am a big guy so maybe I am too heavy for it. :lifter:


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## treemandan (Aug 23, 2009)

TackleTree said:


> Does anyone have the petzl foot pantin?
> 
> I am having problems with the adjustment strap creeping through the buckle. The strap that is below the cam. Any thoughts or Ideas on how to prevent this or am I doing something wrong?
> 
> Gets to be a hassle to readjust it halfway up the tree. I am a big guy so maybe I am too heavy for it. :lifter:



Yes, you can either stitch it in place which may not be a great idea or just run the end under where it goes through the ascender like a half hitch. I will try to get a pic, its a simple fix


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## treemandan (Aug 23, 2009)

tree md said:


> Got another question on the Pantin.
> 
> I have read that it can be kind of hard to keep it on the line, that if you don't advance with your foot just so it will come out of the ascender. Anyone have any problems with that happening? I think I am going to go ahead and order what I need to frog it up after I do my next job this week. I have pretty much decided to go ahead and buy another foot ascender and I'm trying to figure out if I want to go with a Pantin or a CMI.



Yeah you have to track the rope through.


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## TackleTree (Aug 24, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Yes, you can either stitch it in place which may not be a great idea or just run the end under where it goes through the ascender like a half hitch. I will try to get a pic, its a simple fix



I tried that and it works but it gets in the way of the rope grab. Get me that pick though would like to see how you do it. hard to get the rope out when limb walking and moving about in the tree


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## Panama (Aug 24, 2009)

TackleTree said:


> I tried that and it works but it gets in the way of the rope grab. Get me that pick though would like to see how you do it.


 Looking down at your foot, the strap tightens by pulling to your left.
Run the strap end from forward to aft, around the strap that comes out the top of the ascender, to put a half hitch on it. So as the end of the strap exits the half hitch pointing forward, towards your toes. Any other way seems to get in the way. Hope this helps until you get a pic.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Aug 24, 2009)

*Easier than climbing a ladder*






CMI foot ascenders. Left re-rigged with bungie and chicken strap added.




Right positioned normally.




Left positioned at knee level.




Bungie from left CMI fastened through biner and clipped to standing part.




Running part through both CMI ascenders.




Complete system - just like walking up the rope - THANKS MR. BERANEK!
Used the CMI's because they don't come off the rope accidentally! And, their 'teeth' are easier on the rope.


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## treemandan (Aug 24, 2009)

TackleTree said:


> I tried that and it works but it gets in the way of the rope grab. Get me that pick though would like to see how you do it. hard to get the rope out when limb walking and moving about in the tree








The end goes through the loop that is made when is passes through the unit's body. Seems to hold fast and is pure genius if I may say so myself. :greenchainsaw:


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## TackleTree (Aug 24, 2009)

Well I must admit, you are a fart smeller....I mean a smart feller. LOL thanks man. I was putting the half hitch around it right under the rope grab. Your way....Much better! Ok I need to rep you but dont know how


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## treemandan (Aug 24, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> It's quick on, quick up and quick off. The ascenders back each other up.



Yeah, I have been curious to what you have been using.


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## rahtreelimbs (Aug 24, 2009)

I used the pantin for a while but now it sits. I use a double-handled ascender with a Croll backup and my hitch on top...........SRT style. IMO the trick to setting up a ascender style footlock assembly is to get the tether at the proper length so that when you take another footlock you are actually sitting on the ascenders rather than holding yourself with your arms. If you are coordinated enough to climb a tree and be reasonably good at it then IMO footlocking is not out the realm for anyone!


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## Tree Pig (Aug 24, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> Bungie from left CMI fastened through biner and clipped to standing part.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not using a micro pully to tend? what is the little red ratchet clasp for, just keeping everything together? or is it actually tending your friction hitch?


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## SINGLE-JACK (Aug 25, 2009)

*Rope walking*



Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Not using a micro pully to tend? what is the little red ratchet clasp for, just keeping everything together? or is it actually tending your friction hitch?



It's excellent you noticed that. In fact, it does much better at tending than a micro pulley. There's no 'slop' in the tending - every inch up is maintained. It only cost about a dollar AND easily removed in case I have to slide my anchor hitch (ABOK1843) off the biner to move around an included branch. Of course, "keeping everything together" is cool, too. 





I don't want to hi-jack this thread, though. This is just my answer to the "Pantin" question. Not sure it's adaptable to SRT but I believe Jerry Beranek's rope walking idea beats the "Tree Frog" any day, especially since it's about 1/3 the cost. I'm very happy with how efficient the system is working. I get topside faster with much less effort.


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## rahtreelimbs (Aug 25, 2009)

Little crowded........dont' ya think???.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Aug 25, 2009)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Little crowded........dont' ya think???.
> 
> NO!


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## rahtreelimbs (Aug 25, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> It's excellent you noticed that. In fact, it does much better at tending than a micro pulley. There's no 'slop' in the tending - every inch up is maintained. It only cost about a dollar AND easily removed in case I have to slide my anchor hitch (ABOK1843) off the biner to move around an included branch. Of course, "keeping everything together" is cool, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Too messy!!!


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## SINGLE-JACK (Aug 25, 2009)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Too messy!!!



Well, that's articulate. I knew I would get some crap on this forum but I expected a little higher quality than "Too messy!!!". How about some constructive advice? Now would be a good time to post a pic (or link) of your 'neat' system.

BTW, this is too messy:


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## rahtreelimbs (Aug 25, 2009)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Too messy!!!





SINGLE-JACK said:


> Well, that's articulate. I knew I would get some crap on this forum but I expected a little higher quality than "Too messy!!!". How about some constructive advice? Now would be a good time to post a pic (or link) of your 'neat' system.
> 
> BTW, this is too messy:





That is constructive criticism. You put a pic up here be ready. I've had schit pulled apart here too......welcome to the club. Gimme a closed loop hitch and a pulley anytime!!!


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## treemandan (Aug 25, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> It's excellent you noticed that. In fact, it does much better at tending than a micro pulley. There's no 'slop' in the tending - every inch up is maintained. It only cost about a dollar AND easily removed in case I have to slide my anchor hitch (ABOK1843) off the biner to move around an included branch. Of course, "keeping everything together" is cool, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah what is the red thingy?


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## rahtreelimbs (Aug 25, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Yeah what is the red thingy?




Almost looks like a tooth clamp for rubber hoses! I hope you leave that tied all the time!


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## SINGLE-JACK (Aug 26, 2009)

tree md said:


> I'm looking into getting a tree frog system and I'm trying to decide if it's for me or not. I guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and buy one to satisfy my own curiosity. I have to admit I am not big on mechanical devices and do not have a lot of experience with them. I bought hand and foot ascenders a couple of years ago and have played with them a little but have yet to use them in a work situation.
> 
> Anyway, I have been reading about the Pantin that is incorporated into the tree frog system and it occurred to me that it would probably be reasonable to use it in ddrt as well as srt. I have read a lot about guys using one in srt setups but haven't read anything about someone using it ddrt, although the illustration in the Sherrill catalog shows the guy climbing ddrt with one. I have also read that they can be a little difficult to master. The vids I have watched of them being used in srt makes it looks effortless. When compared to watching someone footlock on ddrt it looks so much more effecient. I would feel a lot better about ponying up the bucks for the frog system if I thought I could use some of the stuff in applications other than srt.
> 
> ...



"Point of order." This is *tree md*'s thread about *"Who uses a Pantin?"* My post shows an implementation of Jerry Beranek's "Double Line Rope Walker" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-_GUggGMmM). It fits the topic of the thread and I thought *tree md* would find it easier and cheaper than the tree frog system. The foot ascenders are the salient features of my post and are on topic. I will reply to post about rigging them. 

However, how well I tend my hitch is NOT the topic of his thread. I'll reiterate, "I don't want to hi-jack this thread." This forum has appropriate tools for posing off topic questions. 

Anyway, *Stihl-O-Matic* apparently gets it:



Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Not using a micro pully to tend? what is the little red ratchet clasp for, just keeping everything together? or is it actually tending your friction hitch?



If others don't get it - I can live with that. If anyone really wants more info on "the red thingy" (lol), send me a message. I might be willing to do a separate thread.

Appologies to *tree md* for awakening sleeping giants and diverting attention from his question: *"Who uses a Pantin?"* .


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## FanOFatherNash (Aug 28, 2012)

ATRAES MicroFrog system

ATRAES MicroFrog SRT System - YouTube


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