# looking for my first saddle...



## azilla (Sep 29, 2012)

Im a groundsman and im getting ready to buy my first saddle. I like the comfort of the batten seat and tried on a cougar today. I was wondering if anyone had any advice. Is this a decent saddle to start off in?


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## sgreanbeans (Sep 29, 2012)

Pretty good, what I use. I added a couple caritools, one on each side.


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## azilla (Sep 29, 2012)

sgreanbeans said:


> Pretty good, what I use. I added a couple caritools, one on each side.



my only concern is the rope bridge. How long do they actually last.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 29, 2012)

My first saddle was a 'bowline on a bight'.
Jeff :msp_smile:


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## smokey01 (Sep 29, 2012)

azilla said:


> Im a groundsman and im getting ready to buy my first saddle. I like the comfort of the batten seat and tried on a cougar today. I was wondering if anyone had any advice. Is this a decent saddle to start off in?



Below is info for your local Vermeer dealer. The dealer here shares with Sherill Tree and they have many saddles you can actually try on. They have an anchor in the ceiling and carabiner that you can attach to and get the real feel. Or you can do like the attached picture. Good luck. Be careful, I can tell you how easy it is to buy much more than you need. (Fun though) 

Vermeer Sales Southwest, Inc.
436 S Hamilton Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85233
Phone: 480-785-4800 or 800-577-4640
Web: Swanson Russell







View attachment 254887


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 29, 2012)

Smokey, you are weird!:msp_tongue:
Jeff


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## smokey01 (Sep 30, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Smokey, you are weird!:msp_tongue:
> Jeff



WELL DAHHHHH...........I climb trees and enjoy it..........I certainly hope it's not because I actually spent a few minutes looking up information and made a suggestion to a newbie looking for some help, any other earth shattering tips for us on the 101 side?


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## 2treeornot2tree (Sep 30, 2012)

smokey01 said:


> View attachment 254887



This field harness was designed for a rescue application. I would think it would move around on you alot and I would stay clear of it for anything but a emergency.


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## sgreanbeans (Sep 30, 2012)

Smokie, are you not a newbie? Are you not the same guy asking about knots.......... Newbs should not give other newbs advice. Its a safety thing.

Azilla, the bridge is fine. Like I said, I use a micro on it, so it doesn't see a bunch of friction. I have had it for 2 years and the bridge is still in good shape. The original version had some issues with the bridge but hey have corrected it. There are many saddles out there, all just as good as the next. Don't get visually stimulated and buy a big dollar one at first, unless u can try it on first. Once you use it, its yours, no taking it back. Make sure that u can get the thing super tight, if ya cant, it will start to slide around on ya when ya get sweaty, and believe me, that sucks. Most of the new stuff coming out is all pretty damn good. So as long as it fits properly, ya cant hardly go wrong with any of them. Most of the new one are easily modified to your liking, and that comes with experience only.

MDS, still cant find any cool kids saddles! Still looking tho!


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## smokey01 (Sep 30, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> This field harness was designed for a rescue application. I would think it would move around on you alot and I would stay clear of it for anything but a emergency.



Yes, or when you are out in a "field" and don't really have anything to climb. (that is why they call it a "field harness") 
I just thought that it was really cool you could make one of those with just 12-15 feet of webbing. Probably 15' in my case for the big ass I have as I'm pretty well convinced from this forum that I am a "big ass". But a big ass with a little scene of humor. That was a joke there.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Sep 30, 2012)

Find a store that has lots of different saddles in stock that you can hang in. Dont try on anything higher then what your willing to spend also. When i bought my last saddle, I hung in it at the store off and on for about a hour. But on the other hand it was a Buckingham Ergavation saddle and they are around $500. Maybe i needed to really feel how comfy it was to justify spending that much coin. I tried a couple other saddles at the store also, but they just didnt seem as comfortable.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Sep 30, 2012)

smokey01 said:


> Yes, or when you are out in a "field" and don't really have anything to climb. (that is why they call it a "field harness")
> I just thought that it was really cool you could make one of those with just 12-15 feet of webbing. Probably 15' in my case for the big ass I have as I'm pretty well convinced from this forum that I am a "big ass". But a big ass with a little scene of humor. That was a joke there.



When i was taught how to make that harness in high angle rescue class, we used 25' of webbing.


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## smokey01 (Sep 30, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> When i was taught how to make that harness in high angle rescue class, we used 25' of webbing.



DAMN!!!!!!! How big is your ass???????????? Sounds like a sky Sikorsky S-64 Skycrane helicopter rescue to me.


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## smokey01 (Sep 30, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Find a store that has lots of different saddles in stock that you can hang in......



Tell him about the Vermeer Sherrill Tree store in his area located at... 
Vermeer Sales Southwest, Inc.
436 S Hamilton Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85233

I would, but I can't give advice.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Sep 30, 2012)

smokey01 said:


> Tell him about the Vermeer Sherrill Tree store in his area located at...
> Vermeer Sales Southwest, Inc.
> 436 S Hamilton Ct
> Gilbert, AZ 85233
> ...



First off, I dont like the vermeer stores. I have one about 30 mins from my house, but dont go there. I drive a hour and 20 mins to a great arborist store that knows alot and has stuff in stock. My local vemeer store dont have much in stock, nor any place to hang in a saddle at.


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## deevo (Sep 30, 2012)

Get the Edge from sherrill, awesome saddle, and has everything you need, very comfortable as well! Myself and my other climber have one, we worked (subbed out work) for another company and they all have them now! Few of them tried on ours that day (that's as far as they got!lol) They all love theirs as well! Priced good as well, will last you a long time


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## 2treeornot2tree (Sep 30, 2012)

smokey01 said:


> DAMN!!!!!!! How big is your ass???????????? Sounds like a sky Sikorsky S-64 Skycrane helicopter rescue to me.



In a rescue situation, you adjust the legth of the sling to the victums size. Its better to have more webbing then not enough. Plus, most rescue crews carry 25' webbing in there kits for anchors and other stuff. Its a pretty standard length.


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## smokey01 (Sep 30, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> In a rescue situation, you adjust the legth of the sling to the victums size. Its better to have more webbing then not enough. Plus, most rescue crews carry 25' webbing in there kits for anchors and other stuff. Its a pretty standard length.



So how do you do that? Do you just double it in a case like this and tie a water knot or do you tie it off and leave the tail to do something else?


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## 2treeornot2tree (Sep 30, 2012)

water knot


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## smokey01 (Sep 30, 2012)

azilla said:


> Im a groundsman and im getting ready to buy my first saddle. I like the comfort of the batten seat and tried on a cougar today. I was wondering if anyone had any advice. Is this a decent saddle to start off in?



Make sure you get one that jingles a lot. Sorry azilla, that probably does not make sense but I just had to put that in there for some of the others to hear. 

Jingle bell, jingle bell, jingle bell rock
Jingle bells swing and jingle bells ring
Snowin' and blowin' up bushels of fun
Now the jingle *hop * has begun....(frog technique).................................so up the tree I go.


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## KermitTheFrog (Sep 30, 2012)

Hey man, Im a newbie also. I just bought two saddles after making a hasty decision at the store. Tried on weaver 1010 and basic buckingham, also the wideback versions, batten seat, cougar, weaver 1038, glide, all sorts. I bought the wideback basic, took it home and got in the trees, hated it. Crushed my hips beyond belief. Took it back and got the weaver 1038, floating double dee's and padded leather leg loops. Much more comfortable. If I had the money Id go with the cougar or maybe the treemotion, but for $170 the 1038 is pretty good. Its my first saddle, and already I can see plenty of room for gear, and Im comfortable either hanging or moving around. Good luck in your search, remember haste makes waste. I neglected my own wisdom there and paid for it lol


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## azilla (Oct 3, 2012)

*thx...*

Thanks for the advice. We have a local dealer called artistic arborist here in Phoenix. I hung off the cougar for about an hour. I will definitely use it off a micro. Thanks again.


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## KermitTheFrog (Oct 3, 2012)

good choice! have fun man


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## tramp bushler (Oct 6, 2012)

I got a Weaver Cougar and I really like it. As near as I can tell it's about the same as the Buckingham Viking or Puma. I got the Cougar because its 46" around my waist. I primarily do traditional style West Coast tower Loggin style climbing but have started using a climbing line. I need to do ALOT more rope climbing for fun to build my abs up to where I would say sitting in a saddle on a rope was comfortable. . Worst AB workout I've done since boot camp.

For me the Cougar is very comfortable . I'm going to add a chest harness and I think that will make things funner, mainly because it won't be so arduous.


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## KermitTheFrog (Oct 6, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> I got a Weaver Cougar and I really like it. As near as I can tell it's about the same as the Buckingham Viking or Puma. I got the Cougar because its 46" around my waist. I primarily do traditional style West Coast tower Loggin style climbing but have started using a climbing line. I need to do ALOT more rope climbing for fun to build my abs up to where I would say sitting in a saddle on a rope was comfortable. . Worst AB workout I've done since boot camp.
> 
> For me the Cougar is very comfortable . I'm going to add a chest harness and I think that will make things funner, mainly because it won't be so arduous.



dude you are NOT kidding. The ab workout is extreme.


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## TreEmergencyB (Oct 7, 2012)

My first saddle was 150 dollar weaver with the wide back padded leg loops and a sliding D. Great first saddle doesnt break the bank if you start climbing and cant 'hang' or dont like it. Used it for about 5 years till i upgraded to the Edge this summer. If my boss didnt buy my new saddle i would still be flying the weav....

Worry about your rope bridge as much as you worry about your climb line. Inspect and trust your gear replace when worn....
Have someone else inspect your gear to once in a while. Some wear could seem natural to you cause it happened slow in front of you but someone might notice it worse.


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## azilla (Oct 7, 2012)

*one more question...*

Im in Arizona and it seems like the wages are pushed down because we have an abundance of illegals who work for less. Do you guys see the same problem in your respective states? Im thinking of getting a few years under my belt then moving up to Oregon to do tree work. Any advice from some of you guys who've been in the industry for a while would be greatly appreciated. Thx.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 7, 2012)

azilla said:


> Im in Arizona and it seems like the wages are pushed down because we have an abundance of illegals who work for less. Do you guys see the same problem in your respective states? Im thinking of getting a few years under my belt then moving up to Oregon to do tree work. Any advice from some of you guys who've been in the industry for a while would be greatly appreciated. Thx.



Wages are only pushed down in the hack market. Go to work for a real company.
Jeff


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## KermitTheFrog (Oct 7, 2012)

Im a newbie here, how can you tell who is a real company or not? in my area there are a few larger names, and of course the bunch of landscapers with "tree work" stickers on their trailers. Is there a real way to figure this out? Im looking to get into climbing as a career but I have no professional experience. Dont wanna get bamboozled.


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## azilla (Oct 7, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Wages are only pushed down in the hack market. Go to work for a real company.
> Jeff



I work for one of the better companies in the valley. Its just that a few years ago the largest company got new management and they started to drastically drop prices while uping their advertising. It crapped on the market out here. Im making $11/hr right now but im a newbie...is that a fair wage?


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## tramp bushler (Oct 8, 2012)

Depends on how much a newbie you are? ?
Are you a self starter on tasks that you are able to do? Do u show up on time? Do u have your own climbing gear to learn with? 

I couldn't work for 11$ an HR. And wouldn't. But I've been making stumps since 73 .


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## simpleiowaguy (Jan 12, 2013)

I climb almost everyday for work and I use the buckingham puma. It's kind of like the cougar but the padding is breathable. I'm usually only in a tree for up to a couple hours but it is always comfortable the whole time.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 13, 2013)

I haven't been in a tree since September. Winter came in October and our first 40 below was right around Halloween. 
I used my Cougar a fair amount this past season and so far I like most everything about it.


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## MackenzieTree (Jan 13, 2013)

gotta have the edge saddle love that thing its the spikes i gotta replace to ones that arent killing me after 6-7 hrs


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## Incomplete (Jan 14, 2013)

I Ligered my Cougar, using the CT rigging plates. I can't imagine being without those two extra attachment points. I also replaced the stock bridge with a length of XTC Fire and two SMC rings. No more pinched hips. BUT keep in mind any alteration voids warranty and liability.

Like what was said, I put two small caritools on it. But, my only complaint, there isn't enough room for equipment. Real-estate is at a premium; it can get pretty cluttered real fast with rigging loops, utility loops, bull line, block and loopie/whoopies, not to mention 2-in-1 lanyard and then add into that your climbing line crossing everything. Of course it comes to me now that maybe the small ditty bag at the back might be eating up some of that real-estate. But I couldn't imaging not having some place for my tunes and water, not to mention blood stop and fox 40 whistle.

I think the OP said something about a bosun's seat. If that was so, imagine trying to sit a branch while balanced on a board. Who ever says "you don't climb the tree&hellip;" is a sad, confused son.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 14, 2013)

MackenzieTree said:


> gotta have the edge saddle love that thing its the spikes i gotta replace to ones that arent killing me after 6-7 hrs




By "spikes " are you talking about "spurs" or climbing gaffs, 
my feet are getting pretty tired and sore after 6 hours in mine. But I figure that's because I'm old and fat. My Klien's are the most comfortable spurs I've ever had. But I don't have to drive my spurs in. I just step up and they go in real good.


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 14, 2013)

If you have a 'man-suit', you can try a bowline on a bight,, mmmmmmmmmm!
Jeff


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## woodchuck357 (Jan 15, 2013)

*When I started*

working as a groundie, the going rate was three bucks an hour. When I started climbing I got seven. I don't remember what minimum wage was then but I was making more than the guys working in factories, as a groundie. You work for what they pay, get experience, watch what goes on, you can learn the best ways of working from the folks that do things wrong as well as the ones that do them right.

A better job with a better outfit will come along if you keep looking and improving.

I used a leather belt with D rings, my climbing rope went thru the left ring, around my butt, thru the right, and got tied with a bowlin. After a few days I added a heavy leather strap butt sling with three small rings to run the rope thru so it would stay centered on the sling. Often I was swinging at the end of the rope with the boss holding my life in his hands, I did the same for him, and we never had a problem, but one day another groundie was lowering me to a limb, and something caused him to drop the rope. I didn't land to hard because the rope was dragging thru several crotches. After that I left a long tail off of my bowlin and used it to tie a taunt line hitch around my down end of the climbing rope. I kept experimenting with different tie ins and in '67 started using what is now called a blake's hitch.

I kept using that rig until six years ago, when a friend had a heart attack up a tower. After we got him down, my lady and daughter ganged up on me and insisted on a full harness. I'm retired, but still do about 20 take downs a year that require climbing, and I'm still asking questions and still learning. 

I now have three different harness sets and still feel better in my old rig--but don't tell the ladys. 

I have a shoe repair shop cut the soles of my boots partly off, take out the piddly piece of steel they are made with and replace it with a longer, wider piece glued and sewen in place. Makes standing on spurs a lot more comfortable.


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## joezilla11 (Feb 15, 2013)

For you guys with the cougar- just curious why you chose that over the Viking/puma


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 15, 2013)

joezilla11 said:


> For you guys with the cougar- just curious why you chose that over the Viking/puma



Cougar's are more pretty than a Viking.
Jeff


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## tramp bushler (Feb 16, 2013)

Because the Cougar comes in a big enough size. They are basically the same saddle.


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## joezilla11 (Feb 17, 2013)

I noticed tree stuff has a buckingham rebellion which is the viking with the liger mod but I don't hear anyone talking about it


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## tramp bushler (Feb 17, 2013)

No idea about that saddle. I've found my Couger to be a great saddle. I will probably do that mod to mine this year.


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## mckeetree (Feb 17, 2013)

I'm mixed up with a cougar from down the road here. She thought I was a heavy hitter now she knows my wife controls all the money. She is sorta trying to blackmail me.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 17, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> I'm mixed up with a cougar from down the road here. She thought I was a heavy hitter now she knows my wife controls all the money. She is sorta trying to blackmail me.



You should not cheat on your wife!
Jeff :msp_wink:


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## Guran (Feb 18, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> I have a shoe repair shop cut the soles of my boots partly off, take out the piddly piece of steel they are made with and replace it with a longer, wider piece glued and sewen in place. Makes standing on spurs a lot more comfortable.



Pictures. Please! I've been thinking about exactly the same thing but I'm not sure how I would do it.


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## joezilla11 (Feb 19, 2013)

I noticed the dee to dee measurement on the cougar is smaller than the same approximate size in the Viking. Weaver says to go by the dee measurements for a good fit but if I do that then the waist size is too large according to their chart. Any tips on proper fit?


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 19, 2013)

joezilla11 said:


> I noticed the dee to dee measurement on the cougar is smaller than the same approximate size in the Viking. Weaver says to go by the dee measurements for a good fit but if I do that then the waist size is too large according to their chart. Any tips on proper fit?



Well, you could try it on.
Jeff


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## lumberjack333 (Feb 19, 2013)

azilla said:


> Thanks for the advice. We have a local dealer called artistic arborist here in Phoenix. I hung off the cougar for about an hour. I will definitely use it off a micro. Thanks again.



I started with a cougar and it got me through 4 years, one rope bridge replacement. Switched to the glide rope bridge... the only reason I replaced it was because of minor fray started by a few 1000 draws and sheathings of a silky sugoi lol. Switched out to the Sherrill Edge now, fairly similar but lighter and alot more comfortable on the lower back.


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## joezilla11 (Feb 19, 2013)

I would prefer that but I'd like to avoid 6 hour drives and waiting for exchanges


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 19, 2013)

joezilla11 said:


> I would prefer that but I'd like to avoid 6 hour drives and waiting for exchanges



Oh,, sorry!
Jeff


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