# Ms 291 oiler???



## Slacker4 (Mar 10, 2014)

I bought a ms 291 a month ago and the saw tums great but the bar oil is only half empty. Chain seems dry. My local stihl dealer said that they have turned this oiler way down and it just doesn't use the oil like the old saws. Has anyone else ran into this problem and if so is this normal??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Slacker4 (Mar 10, 2014)

Sorry about my message. Meant to say saw runs great but the oil is only half empty after a tank of gas is gone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## griffonks (Mar 10, 2014)

Is there an adjustable oiler access on the bottom of the saw like the MS290? 

If there is an adjustable oiler is it cranked up all the way?

Sent from my SCH-R530C using Tapatalk


----------



## juttree (Mar 11, 2014)

We have two of the 291's on our trucks and there is no adjustable oilers on them. They always seem like they aren't getting enough oil. What length bar are you using? We use 18" and even that seems too much for the delivery rate. They run fine and all but their definitely not my first choice in saw to pull out of the truck, mainly because the bars always seem so damn dry. Its possible there is a better oil pump for that saw but I'm really not sure. Maybe someone will come along and answer that question. Sorry I couldn't be more help


----------



## juttree (Mar 11, 2014)

Also, make sure to keep the oil holes and the bar rail clean.


----------



## AKDoug (Mar 11, 2014)

No adjustable oiler, no optional oiler either.


----------



## Terry Syd (Mar 11, 2014)

I don't know how the 291 oil pump is constructed, but I upgraded a 029 pump from .4mm of stroke to .88mm of stroke.
Perhaps there is a piston from another pump (390/391) that would fit. Anyone with some information about such a swap?


----------



## Slacker4 (Mar 11, 2014)

I run an 18" bar as well. It doesn't seem that it hinders the saws performance to me at all but I have never had a saw that the bar and chain look that dry. Love the saw and to me this is the downfall of it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## windthrown (Mar 11, 2014)

The 029 pump has an adjustable oiler, with a piston and control bolt. The 291 does not... so there is nothing to upgrade or swap out in it.


----------



## jdhacker (Mar 11, 2014)

I have a 291 and have wore two rs chains back to the marks, and im on the 3rd now. My bar is in great shape and I hardly ever need to adjust chain tension. Im usually 3/4 empty on oil with a tank of gas.


----------



## ash man (Mar 11, 2014)

My old 029 Super would oil a 20" bar easily. Think we can chalk this one up to the epa to???


----------



## lowbudget (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm glad someone else noticed this. I got a 291 and was a little worried about it. dealer said it was fine but I wasn't so sure...


----------



## AKDoug (Mar 11, 2014)

windthrown said:


> The 029 pump has an adjustable oiler, with a piston and control bolt. The 291 does not... so there is nothing to upgrade or swap out in it.


Have you pulled one apart? I'll take a look today, but they sure don't look interchangeable.


----------



## lowbudget (Mar 11, 2014)

jdhacker said:


> I have a 291 and have wore two rs chains back to the marks, and im on the 3rd now. My bar is in great shape and I hardly ever need to adjust chain tension. Im usually 3/4 empty on oil with a tank of gas.



so I think you're saying you think it's getting enough oil, right?..


----------



## jdhacker (Mar 11, 2014)

Unless you have a problem I would say your saw is fine. Some people get use to seeing way to much oil on a chain, and think thats how it need to look. That is just not so.


----------



## windthrown (Mar 11, 2014)

AKDoug said:


> Have you pulled one apart? I'll take a look today, but they sure don't look interchangeable.


 
I did not say that they were. I have pulled 310 oil pumps (same as 290 and 390 saws) and they have control bolts and pump pistons like pro saws do. The 290 has a smaller pump piston than the 310/390, and they can be swapped/upgraded. I have never worked on a 291 (or their siblings, the 271 and 251). They are obviously not interchangeable with the 1127 oil pumps. From the IPL they look like a completely new design pump with nothing there to swap out or upgrade. It looks like they are crank driven like the 026 non-pro, and run all the time.


----------



## Slacker4 (Mar 11, 2014)

Thanks for the input guys. jdhacker I am just used to seeing oil on the chain with my Husky but you are right it does cut fine. I have only ran three tanks of gas through this saw so far as well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mopar3 (Mar 11, 2014)

How thick is your oil? If its cold and your oil is real thick it will not pump very well.


----------



## Slacker4 (Mar 11, 2014)

It was cold and I am using winter grade stihl bar oil. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mopar3 (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm running the Stihl winter blend as well. I was using some Husky bar oil and when cold it wouldn't pour out of the bottle. I have Echo saws and some Stihls. The Echos oil all the time and you can see the oil all around the bar they put out a lot. The Stihls don't oil at idle and they seem to be pretty dry. If you pull the drive links out of the bar you should find a film of oil on them.


----------



## Slacker4 (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks for the info guys. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## windthrown (Mar 12, 2014)

Slacker4 said:


> It was cold and I am using winter grade stihl bar oil.


 
That is 10wt oil, so it should be plenty thin.


----------



## windthrown (Mar 12, 2014)

mopar3 said:


> I'm running the Stihl winter blend as well. I was using some Husky bar oil and when cold it wouldn't pour out of the bottle. I have Echo saws and some Stihls. The Echos oil all the time and you can see the oil all around the bar they put out a lot. The Stihls don't oil at idle and they seem to be pretty dry. If you pull the drive links out of the bar you should find a film of oil on them.


 
Updated:

Stihl adjustable oiler saws do not oil at idle because they run off of a notch in the clutch drum. However, a lot of the Stihl non-pro saws used to have non-adjustable oilers that run off the crank. They oil all the time, even when idle. These new 291 saws have oilers that do not run off the crank, so they will not puddle at idle. Or they should. Seems that the oil output is set pretty low. Look for bar burning/bluing on the bars. That happens when they do not get enough oil.


----------



## AKDoug (Mar 13, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Stihl adjustable oiler saws do not oil at idle because they run off of a notch in the clutch drum. However, a lot of the Stihl no-pro saws have non-adjustable oilers that run off the crank. They oil all the time, even when idle. These new 291 saws have oilers that run off the crank, so they will puddle at idle. Or they should. Seems that they are set pretty low. Look for bar burning/bluing on the bars. That happens when they do not get enough oil.


Nope. All current Stihl, adjustable and non-adjustable, saws run their oilers off the wire driven worm gear that locks into the notch in the clutch drum. As such, they do not oil until the clutch is engaged.


----------



## motorman1 (Mar 13, 2014)

Sounds to me like its doing its job. Have you lifted the chain out of the bar groove to see if the chain drivers are wet after running the saw a bit? You'd probably be surprised at the amount of oil you don't see, but it's there. That's the only parts you need to worry about.


----------



## Slacker4 (Mar 13, 2014)

I have not done this but I will when I cut my next load of wood. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## windthrown (Mar 13, 2014)

AKDoug said:


> Nope. All current Stihl, adjustable and non-adjustable, saws run their oilers off the wire driven worm gear that locks into the notch in the clutch drum. As such, they do not oil until the clutch is engaged.


 
I stand corrected... I update the post above. It looks like all the non-pro Stihls now have cutch driven oilers. But many do not have adjustable oilers. The 1141 saws, including the 291 have what are called 'variable displacement' oilers, but they are not adjustable. I do not have a service manual for that saw, so I do not have the oil output of those pumps.


----------



## stillhunter (Mar 14, 2014)

My MS 291 seemed to be a little dry when the standard thick bar oil was cold after nights below freezing and sawing on a cold day in the 30's. It seems to flow more oil when it's warmer but always seem to have 1/4 tank or so of oil left when the gas runs out. I think the auto oiler and oil tank capacity are designed to last longer than a tank of fuel to prevent running the oil out and damaging the bar/chain.


----------



## windthrown (Mar 14, 2014)

Looking in the 291 service manual, the oil pump delivery rate is a meager : 8.0(+/2.0) cc /min. at 10,000 RPM. That is really low...

Compare that to a 290 which is adjustable from 8 – 18 cc / min. at 10,000 RPM.


----------



## Jlhotstick3 (Aug 25, 2014)

That really sucks, cuz my work jus got me a 291 for a saw cuz someone dropped my 260 out of the bucket onto black top from bout 45' .... So no options then as far as swapping it out?


----------



## Rockjock (Aug 25, 2014)

Jlhotstick3 said:


> That really sucks, cuz my work jus got me a 291 for a saw cuz someone dropped my 260 out of the bucket onto black top from bout 45' .... So no options then as far as swapping it out?


Run a thinner oil as an experiment. Some people have used Rapeseed ( canola oil ) and it is quite thin with no issues at all. If there is no bluing of the rails then it is doing its job be it just.


----------



## 7sleeper (Aug 25, 2014)

Rockjock said:


> Run a thinner oil as an experiment. Some people have used Rapeseed ( canola oil ) and it is quite thin with no issues at all. If there is no bluing of the rails then it is doing its job be it just.


Just what I wanted to say! Further if your bio bar lube is to thick, you can easily dilute it with canola oil and it will flow freely again!

7


----------



## Jlhotstick3 (Sep 20, 2014)

Boy after running my 291 at work , I'm not a big fan, I have to choke it every time I start it, it Boggs when I'm cutting a cedar pole which is very soft as we all know and it just feels cheap, I miss my 260 pro a lot.....anyone kno how to get more power outta this pos?


----------



## AKDoug (Sep 20, 2014)

It needs to be adjusted if it requires choke to start, sounds like the L is adjusted lean. Lack of power and bogging can also be lean on the H side. The 291 was never meant to replace a pro saw like a 260. It should run circles around a stock 290, which is what it should be compared to.


----------



## Jlhotstick3 (Sep 21, 2014)

AKDoug said:


> It needs to be adjusted if it requires choke to start, sounds like the L is adjusted lean. Lack of power and bogging can also be lean on the H side. The 291 was never meant to replace a pro saw like a 260. It should run circles around a stock 290, which is what it should be compared to.[/QUOTE
> 
> Your right i shouldn't compare it to a pro saw i guess i just miss my 260, i always thought the 290 was a decent saw? This one jus seems real cheap, where the older 290s seemed a lil more rugged, ill try adjusting the carb thanks for the advice


----------



## Jlhotstick3 (Sep 21, 2014)

Whops screwed that up lol


----------



## NorthernBreeze (Oct 25, 2014)

I was just googeling this subject for my ms291 and came up with this thread. My own personal experience, my first time running it, it seemed to use 3/4 tank of oil to one tank of gas. It was a little cooler today but I would have to say I'm at about 2-3 tanks of gas per tank of oil. My bar edges are getting sharp, like the heals of the chain are sharpening it and I saw sparks a few times. I'm hoping that's normal. I'm going to switch to the winter blend and try to clean my saw a little. I thought the 291 had adjustable oilers but it doesn't sound like it


----------



## AKDoug (Oct 25, 2014)

That is one downfall of the plastic cased clamshell saws. You MUST use thinner oil in winter. On a magnesium cased pro saw it will warm up the oil in pretty short order.


----------



## z71mike (Oct 25, 2014)

NorthernBreeze said:


> My bar edges are getting sharp, like the heals of the chain are sharpening it and I saw sparks a few times. I'm hoping that's normal.



That's never normal. 

Make that NOT happen.


----------

