# Choosing Rope For Climbing



## Marky Mark (Jun 24, 2002)

I purchased a "Macrograb W/Bolt/Scrw Lnk 12Mm" assender, since I am new to tree climbing I wanted to know what size rope would someone reccomned to use this with this unit. I would like to use 5/8ths Rope, I do not climb professionally nor do I want to start i went to school and have always wanted to do climb and rig trees, now I can afford to buy the gear but this rope thing for me anyway is hard to pick out. 

If some one could also tell me the lowest prices on the web for Rope I would love for that to be posted also. Thank You


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## treeclimber165 (Jun 24, 2002)

If you bought a 12mm ascender, you will need 12mm (or 1/2") rope. Virtually all tree climbing rope is 1/2". Check out the climbing ropes available at Sherrill (this web site's main sponsor). 
Everything available through Sherrill is also available at any Vermeer dealership. I'd probably hit the nearest dealer so I could see and feel the different ropes. Also, most dealers will only stock the most popular ropes so you can benefit from other's experience in that regard.

The other benefit of going to Vermeer is that you might run into some tree guys and you can get some free advice.
(I use 'Safety Blue' for my lifeline. Excellent feel, 7,700 lbs rating, and decent price.)


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## Kevin (Jun 24, 2002)

Brian,
Do you think safety blue is a good rope to be using with a mechanical ascender?


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## treeclimber165 (Jun 24, 2002)

I've never used ascenders, but I can tell you that the Safety Blue doesn't 'fray' as badly as a lot of other ropes I've seen. I use my old lifelines for handlines, and put them through a lot of abuse. They still LOOK good enough to climb on, but I never would after stressing them with the loads I've put on them. 

I got a new lanyard made with 'Blue Streak' a couple months ago, and it is starting to fuzz up more than my 6 month old lifeline already.


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## Kevin (Jun 24, 2002)

I`ve been using safety blue also and I`m afraid it might get chewed up with a mechanical ascender so I`m looking at kernmantle or something similar just for ascending.


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## treeclimber165 (Jun 24, 2002)

I was just reading the Sherrill catalog (pages 3-5) and the kernmantle line they have is recommended for speedline use, with a note about how it should NOT be used for climbing line.  

If you use Safety Blue anyway, try the ascender on it for a while and see how it holds up. Since your starting point is 7,700 lbs rating, it would have to get pretty chewed up before safety was a factor.


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## Tom Dunlap (Jun 24, 2002)

12mm does NOT equal half inch, it equals 0.48". Half inch equals 12.7mm. Your pruning standards may not call for any closer accuracy but rope tool manufacturers have engineered their tools more accurately.

Retiring climbing ropes to lowering ropes make no sense. You're telling me that you don't feel comfortable using a rope with a two hundred pound static load but you're OK using the same rope for unknown [and probably heavier than 200#] dynamic loads? Stop and think about that logic. Climbing loads are more often that not less than climbing loads.

Cammed ascenders are much more gentle on ropes than toothed ascenders. The Micro/Macro grab family and the Gibbs products are much nicer to ropes. Besides, they are much stronger than handled ascenders. I'll post an article from another website about ascenders.

Tom


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## Greg (Jun 24, 2002)

MM what ever you do don't cheap out and get some crap off of a reel at home depot. If you want to keep the cost down, the cheapest it will get is arborplex1/2 x120" for about $60. Not the best rope in the world but for your use I doubt you will have any complaints, and it will be safe.
For Rec climbing check out treeclimbing.com. 
Greg


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## treeclimber165 (Jun 24, 2002)

Tom,
I appreciate your concern about my practice of using old lifelines for handlines. But I can tell you that my lifelines get retired because they get nasty dirty, and when my friction hitch doesn't slide well from embedded sap, etc. If one of my ropes EVER gets nicked where a complete strand (of the 16 strands) is cut, I walk to the truck and pull out my knife and lighter, cut the rope and dress the ends. When my handline get stiff spots in it (from overloading), I retire it and buy a new lifeline, then rotate my old lifeline down to a new handline. This way I am forced to replace my lifeline LOOOONG before safety is ever an issue, plus I get the benefit (and comfort) of never having a lifeline older than 4-6 months old!

As for rope sizing, I think Safety Blue is one of the 'smaller' 1/2" ropes available. Hold a piece of it next to a hank of True Blue 1/2" and tell me that they are EXACTLY the same size! I guarantee there is more than .02" difference between them.


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## Tom Dunlap (Jun 24, 2002)

*Ascender article page 1*

TCI Magazine - June 2002 Articles Ascender Use for Personal Support By Tim Walsh
The inspiration for this article came from a number of ascender-related accidents. (This is actually the third in a series that 
discusses the proper use of ascenders in tree climbing. (See The TreeWorker, January and February 2002.) One such accident 
was brought to my attention a few months ago and my research uncovered a number of similar ones. Most of the problems 
stem from improper selection of ascenders or improper use. This article is meant to provide some basic information on the 
general types of ascenders and their proper application to arboricultural use. This is not a gear promotion article, but it will 
focus on some of the ascenders that are commonly in use. There is a lot of information out there pertaining to ascenders-and 
there seems to be some differences on ratings-so I will try to focus on strength ratings as listed by the manufacturers.

The best place to begin an article about equipment or techniques in arboricultural operations is with the current safety standard, 
the ANSI Z133.1- 2000, (The Z). If you don't have your own copy, get one and read it. It may just keep you alive. The Z 
gives is a starting point for this discussion by defining some related terms.

Ascenders are defined in Annex A simply as "A mechanical device used for climbing rope." It is cross-referenced to Section 
3.29 in the definition of "Secured." One example of being secured is 3.29 (4): "When ascending the arborist climbing line using 
the footlock technique while utilizing a Prusik loop or ascenders." About the only other sections that relate to parts of a 
personal support or climbing system are Sections 8.7.5, 8.7.6, and 3.13. 

Sections 8.7.5 and 8.7.6 discuss carabiners and rope snaps, respectively. Minimum tensile strength for both is 5,000 pounds 
and both are to be of the "self-closing and locking [positive-locking for carabiners] type." The other related Section, 3.13 false 
crotch, states as part of the definition, "Each component of the system shall have a minimum tensile strength of 5,000 pounds."

Ascenders were first used in mountaineering, caving and rock climbing. The arboriculture profession has borrowed ideas from 
several disciplines and now many tree climbers are also rock and ice climbers. Mechanical ascenders were designed for the 
static load of one person, and are not meant for shock loading. They were also meant for kernmantle cord, where the main 
strength of the rope is in a core that is covered by a tightly woven, wear-resistant cover. In contrast, the main, if not all, of the 
strength of arborist ropes is in the cover. The cover of kernmantle rope is also smoother than arborist rope allowing for a 
greater surface area for the ascender cam to contact.

Now let's take a look at the general types of ascenders. There are two main kinds of ascenders - toothed or cammed. Toothed 
ascenders are what many people think of when they think of mechanical ascent devices. They may be with or without handles, 
or be foot ascenders and come in a variety of colors produced by a variety of manufacturers. They often come in color-coded 
pairs designed for either left- or right-handed use. This type is also referred to as an eccentric cam, or Jumar (actually a trade 
name but used in a generic sense like Kleenex for tissue. This term is used as a noun and a verb).

Toothed ascenders have the load attached to the body (handle) of the ascender, and the toothed cam pivots inside the body to 
wedge the rope. The teeth on the cam are relatively sharp and are slanted to bite into the rope and assure a firm grip on clean 
rope. These ascenders were designed to be attached and removed with one hand. Each has a safety or locking mechanism to 
reduce the chance of the rope coming out accidentally. When overloaded or shock loaded, these types of ascenders usually 
damage (or even sever) the rope. This usually happens at loads well below the tensile strength of the ascender, so great care 
must be taken to not shock load or overload this type of ascender. The locking mechanism can be opened inadvertently if it
contacts anything, such as tree branches. This equipment was not designed to be used where it would often come into contact 
with anything but the rope and the climber. If your hand slips and contacts the cam or locking mechanism, you can cause the 
cam to open - even while under a load. The toothed design also will not work as effectively if the ascenders become clogged 
with ice and mud. 

The other main type of ascender, the cammed ascender, is also called a lever-cam, shell, or ridged cam. Cammed ascenders 
were meant to work in dirty and cold conditions without slipping. This type avoids the clogging problem by altering the way the 
load is attached to the ascender and by altering the surface of the cam. The load is attached directly to the cam, which is 
enclosed in a shell. There is often a spring on the cam that helps keep the ascender in place on the rope when not loaded. The 
spring does not change the ascenders' holding power. 

These ascenders function by squeezing the rope between the cam and the back of the shell. The cams will often have ridges or 
grooves that are perpendicular to the direction of rope travel. Some designs have a groove in the part of the shell where the 
rope is pressed to increase the surface area that the cam presses against. The cammed ascenders are a little more difficult to put 
on a rope, but are less likely to come off of the rope once attached. When these ascenders are overloaded, or shock loaded, 
they tend to slip on the rope. But, they can crush or cut the rope under severe loading.

One of the main themes that kept coming up during the research for this article was that all manufacturers, wholesalers, 
distributors, and most users warned that these devices were not meant for shock loading or excessive loads. Most were 
intended for the weight of a single climber. One other important point is that these were designed for specific situations and 
environments, and not for use in trees and on arborist rope. I am not by any means saying that we should not be using 
ascenders, but we do need to make sure that we use the right equipment in the right application.

Now that we have a sense for the basic kinds of ascenders (toothed and cammed), let's take a look at some recommendations 
for safe usage before we take a closer look at some of the specific devices. (Adapted in part from Arborist Equipment by Don 
Blair.)
* At the risk of repeating myself, I'll restate that ascenders were not designed for shock or excessive loading. 
* They were designed for single-person loads on an overhead, static system.
* Ascenders were designed for use on kernmantle rope, which has a tougher outer shell. Use on arborist rope requires more 
frequent inspection (than on kernmantle rope) and retirement if the rope is damaged.
* Toothed ascenders can slip off of the line or open enough to allow uncontrolled rope slippage if:
1. They are pulled away from the rope or twisted.
2. Branches or other debris contact the cam or the locking mechanism while loaded.
* Ascenders were not intended to be used as a single point of attachment, and should be backed up, where and how 
appropriate.
* When used for personal support, cammed ascenders should have a locking mechanism that is not likely to come undone 
unintentionally. This means that you should not hang your life from a cammed ascender that has only a quick-release pin. Some cammed ascenders come with a bolt and locking nut or a spring-loaded locking mechanism that takes two motions to remove the pin.
· Climb smoothly and avoid bouncing on the rope.

Let's take a closer look at some of the specific arborist applications of ascenders. Again, this article is not endorsing or denouncing any specific brand or type of ascender, but is trying to address the safe use of the types most commonly seen in arboriculture. We will first look at proper use of some of the cammed type ascenders. The most common way these are used for personal support in arboriculture is as lanyard adjusters. 

The most common types are the Gibbs ascender and the Petzl Micro and Macro-cenders. The Gibbs comes in aluminum (cast or forged) or steel shell, with cast or forged cams, in two sizes. The small accepts 3/8-inch to ½-inch rope and the large will accept 9/16-inch to ¾-inch rope. The smaller cast aluminum cams are rated at 2550 pounds (11.1 kN). The Gibbs is sold with 
the quick-release pin attached to the shell. It is most often sold with the bolt and locking nut. If it is to be used for personal support, it is best to use the bolt and locking nut.

The two sizes/styles of the Petzl cammed ascenders are similar in function to the Gibbs but have some modifications. Rock Exotica originally produced these ascenders but was bought out by Petzl, thus you may see the Rescue, Micro- and Macrocenders (also called Microjuster and Macrojuster) listed under the brand names of Petzl or Rock Exotica. These three ascenders all have a two-stage spring loaded pin that locks the cams in place.


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## Tom Dunlap (Jun 24, 2002)

*Ascener article page 2*

The Microcender is intended for use on ropes 7/16 inch to ½ inch and is rated at 3,500 pounds (15.57 kN) minimum breaking strength. Rope slippage begins at about 900 pounds. The Rescucender works on 7/16-inch to ½-inch ropes but has a breaking strength of 6,000 pounds. The Macrocender is designed for ropes between 5/8 inch and ¾ inch and is rated at 6,000 pounds. It also begins to slip at approximately 900 pounds. 

Another type of ascender is the CMI Ropewalker. The Ropewalker has made some changes on the original Gibbs design, such as creating gaps in the shell to allow dirt and debris to fall out of the ascender, so that it does not compromise the ascenders' holding power. The Ropewalker is rated at 7,500 pounds but rope damage (sheath failure) occurs at just over 3,000 pounds.

There are some ascenders designed to work on two strands of rope. The Rock Exotica Footlocker was specifically designed 
to be used when ascending a doubled rope while footlocking. There are two separate cams within one shell and each cam has 
its own channel for one strand of rope. The Footlocker has a two-stage, spring-loaded pin that locks the cams in place. The 
tensile strength is in excess of 6,000 pounds, but when shock loaded in a drop test, it slipped at around 3,800 pounds.

Another cammed ascender that works on two strands of rope is the Petzl Shunt. The Shunt is designed for either one or two 
strands of rope, but was designed for ropes that are smaller than ½ inch (11mm maximum). The attachment point breaks at 
4,496 pounds (20 kN) and the device may begin to slip with only a few hundred pounds (1-8 kN).

There is a greater diversity of the toothed type of ascender, but they have more limitations than the cammed. The toothed types 
are used for ascent on a single or doubled rope. The Jumar, by Blue Water, is a commonly used ascender in other disciplines. 
It will accept rope sizes from 6 mm to 14 mm (.236 - .551 inches), but its breaking strength is 1,600 pounds. Some are 
stamped at 1,100 pounds.

CMI makes a few different types of toothed ascenders that have found their way into some tree climbers' gear bags. The 
largest, the Expedition, is rated at 4,000 pounds. The Large Ultrascenders are rated at 4,600 pounds and the Small 
Ultrascenders are rated at 3,500 pounds. Under test conditions, the ascenders caused the ropes to fail at significantly lower 
loads than the minimum breaking strength of the ascender itself. When the rope failed, the sheath on the kernmantle cord 
ruptured at between 1,000 and 2,000 pounds. These tests were run on kernmantle rope, where the majority of the strength is in 
the core. We do not have data on how they would react if tested on arborist rope.

The use of Kong equipment has become more prevalent in the past few years. Kong has a variety of devices that can be 
adapted for use in arboriculture, and they have neat colors, too. Kong has a toothed, double ascender that has combined a left- 
and right-handed cam and one handle with places for both hands. This is used to ascend a doubled rope like that used for 
footlocking. It has been designed to take ropes between 7/16 inch and 1/2 inch. As with other toothed cams of this style, it is 
designed to be used for vertical ascent, and the rope can slip out if used to traverse or if it is pulled to the side. They are tested 
to hold a load of 1,124 pounds (5 kN) without damaging rope. The top eye is rated 4,271 pounds (19 kN) and the bottom is
3,372 pounds (15 kN).

Petzl has a number of toothed ascenders, but the most commonly encountered are the Ascension ascenders. The right- and 
left-hand ascenders are color coded - blue: right, yellow: left - and feature a large opening for easy access with a gloved hand. 
They will accept ropes between 8 mm and 13 mm (.314 - .511 inches). There are three attachment points in the body of the 
ascender: the upper point is rated at 18kN; the large lower point is rated at 20kN; and the smaller is rated at 15kN. The 
ascender will cause the rope (kernmantle) to fail between 4 kN and 6.5 kN.

The Petzl Pantin is somewhat similar to the Ascension, but it looks like it is missing the handle. The Pantin is designed as a foot 
ascender and comes with a trap designed to hook to the foot. It will take 7/16-inch to ½-inch rope. This device was not 
intended for personal support so it has not been tested and rated.

As technology advances, we sometimes struggle to keep up. It seems as if there are new gear choices and techniques every 
time you go to TCI EXPO or the annual ISA meeting, or read the latest magazine. There is a newer classification of ascender, 
called a "swing sided self-jamming pulley." There are currently two of these products being used by arborists: the Mini Traxion 
and Pro Traxion by Petzl. Tensile strengths are reported as 20 kN for the Mini and 22 kN for the Pro Traxion.

So, to wrap things up, we need to ask, "Are ascenders good or bad?" By now, most of you know the answer to that 
question… yes. Ascenders offer us a wide range of ways to make our jobs safer, easier, and often times more efficient, too. 
Caveat emptor though. Many of these devices were designed to be used on kernmantle rope and in very different situations 
than we use them while climbing in trees. The manufacturers repeatedly stress that they are not meant for shock loading. They 
are almost always used as one part of an ascent system, with backups where and how appropriate.

Based on my experience and this research, I think cammed ascenders are well adapted to be used for personal support as 
lanyard adjusters. Put a bolt and locking nut in or buy one that has a locking system that minimizes the chance of the cam falling 
away from the shell.

The toothed ascenders do not seem to be as well adapted to our profession, especially when you keep the current Z133.1 
standard in mind. Many of them are below 5,000 pounds minimum tensile strength. In testing, many cause severe damage to the 
ropes at loads much less than the tensile strength of the device. Keep in mind that these tests were done on kernmantle rope, 
which they designed them for. We do not know what the test results will be when arborist climbing lines are used.

Single Rope Technique can allow for convenient, safe backup for toothed ascenders, but doubled rope ascension systems are 
much more difficult to back up without installing a separate belay line. (See The TreeWorker, February 2002, for more on 
backing up these systems.)

So please think about what you are using, its strengths and its limitations. Keep climbing safely.

Tim Walsh is a staff arborist for the National Arborist Association.


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## Stumper (Jun 25, 2002)

My experience with mechanical ascenders is ...0..... I have climbed on Safety Blue (both braid and 3 strand) and Arborplex. I have felt safe on all three. Because of their tendency to hockle 3 strands are a pain. I prefer Safety Blue braid- It is among the strongest of 1/2 inch lines and handling is superb. My arborplex was a "fat" 1/2 inch and seemed to be slicker and more prone to creeping in the friction hitch than safety blue when new. Please note that I still found it to be fine, safe rope and a real bargain.


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## kf_tree (Jun 25, 2002)

tom you definitly know your stuff. there is alot of rock and ice gear coming into the tree market theses days. i started ice climbing and i've been introducing some of the gear to my fellow tree climbers. 
the big thing about rock and ice gear every thing is about the weight. when i buy mountainaineering gear i look at the weight of every thing. i coun't every ounce, because it has to get carried over a long distance.
but with tree gear weight is not realy an issue. rock and ice gear has very specific working limits. when used inproperly, the strength is reduced dramaticly. what about tri loading a biner? do tree men know what a bad thing that is? 
tree men who are using rock and ice gear should realy learn to use the gear correctly and know its limits.


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## rbtree (Jun 25, 2002)

To all:

Some observations, personal experiences etc.

Safety Blue and Blue Streak are about the same size, Arborplex smaller, Yale 16 strand smaller still (But woven tightly), and 
True Blue more like a 9/16. 

Since I don't have a true static line yet, I ascend on my climb lines, currently SB Hi-V and Blue streak, as well as an old American Ropes line (Monkey Line, orange w/greentracer, a nice line, but it milked pretty badly when new) which is now mostly retired. Never used ascenders on it, but it wore less than any other rope!!

I use rather sharply toothed Petzl Ascension's for ascending and find the Blue streak wears quite well. It is a slightly tighter weave than SB, hence I find it frays a bit slower, and I like it better. We're getting 600 feet of the new Gold streak ASAP- and Dan Kraus is going to help us learn the splicing. The non handled ascenders are mostly used as lanyard adjusters in the tree trade, as they are harder to ascend with for long distances. But they have nice rounded cams, so are easier on the rope.

As far as using old lifelines for light rigging, I do it all the time. I have NEVER had a line break doing overhead rigging, but have broken old beater lines when pulling grounded logs. (These are ones with obviously bad frays, such as 12-15 yr old arborplex. We are careful to manage shock loading, and do no havy rigging on old lines.

But I would like to do dyno tests on my old climb lines, esp an old HI-Vee that has no obviously bad weak spots. I would test it in the middle, near the end, and the splice itself, which looks way weaker than the rest. If a new line failed at close to its rated capacity, I'd venture a guess that our old ones would fail at 50-75%. A tree lifeline is subjected to much less abuse than a mt climb line used for leading, which is drug over sharp corners, and repeated fallen on, usually full factor 2 falls. Collateral abuse such as minor nicks, dirt, UV degradation, being stepped on, are relativley minor. Anyhow, safety is all important, but in the past, I have used a climnb line for 2-4 years, longer than many of us. But it doens't get used every day, and I usually have three of them. 

In my new "Tree Guy.....er" thread, the speedlines are downgraded Blue Streak and that SB. We are putting no dynamic load of over 2000 lb on them, so I am not worried. Likely nothing over 800 lb. My figures are just guesses, based on heaviest branch being 200-300 lb, and lifting onto the speedline, no slam dunking. The anchors will carry more load than the line, and based on old excellent threads and Pete donzelli's fabulous writing, we could have experienced up to seven times the load at the anchors. 

I didn't have my friend's 36000 lb 1/2 inch plasma line. But it is way overkill anyhow. It is nice as the stretch is zilch. (One reason why it is not recommended for any use but pulling.)

Rog


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## Nickrosis (Jun 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rbtree _
> But I would like to do dyno tests on my old climb lines, esp an old HI-Vee that has no obviously bad weak spots. I would test it in the middle, near the end, and the splice itself, which looks way weaker than the rest. If a new line failed at close to its rated capacity, I'd venture a guess that our old ones would fail at 50-75%.



Roger,

If you send a rope manufacturer a used rope that you purchased from them, they will glady test it and mail you a report showing elongation per unit force, max elongation, and breaking point. At least, that's what Yale sent to me. Included was a letter with comments from the engineer.

The manufacturers are eager to improve their ropes, and even more interested in retaining you as a customer. Be sure take advantage of that. When you send them the rope, lay out a set of instructions for the engineer like you just did.

I'm sure you already know this, but for other's sake.... A new line is rated at 10% of [note the edit] the average of what it ought to break at. (A rope that consistently breaks at 100 lbs. is rated at 10 lbs.) This rating is the working load. The average breaking strength is commonly listed as well. The working load is determined based on what the rope is expected to be used for.

In some industrial uses where the rope may hit the ground, get wet, or see UV rays, the working load may be 5:1 (20%). In our industry, they suggest 10:1 (10%) because of the abrasion, dirt, and loads.

I sent a split tail of XTC Spearmint in to be broken - they couldn't break it. I was so proud.  I didn't even whip it - something I would always do before climbing. When I got the rope back, I was able to pull the eye apart because every buried fiber had broken. It was the "Chinese finger handcuff effect" holding it together. The engineer speculated it would have broken at nearly the breaking strength of the unspliced rope. This proves to me that a properly spliced rope is far better than a knot.

Good luck with your breaks!

Nickrosis


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## FBerkel (Jun 26, 2002)

> (10% less than)



Nick,

You meant 10% of, not 10% less than. Obviously an oversite, not an error, cause you used the figure correctly lower in your post. Too important a subject for that oversite to be not pointed out.

We use retired lifelines for very light lowering under static conditions. We retire them very early, so I'm not too concerned.


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## Stumper (Jun 26, 2002)

I too use retired lifelines for lowering/bull rope applications. Lots of people get wrought up about this practice but I have never retired a climbing rope because of damage. I buy a new rope after a few years ( I don't climb very much) and climb on the new rope downgrading the old one. Actually one of my bullropes is Safety Blue 3 strand which I purchased for that application.( The 3 strand avoids confusion with my climbing line and runs well in 1/2" blocks.)


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 26, 2002)

nick, in making the splice, did you use a marker to measure the taper and tuck?

I'm wondering because of the past threads concerning strength loss due to marking ink.


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## Nickrosis (Jun 27, 2002)

FBerkel:
"Too important a subject for that oversite to be not pointed out."
Absolutely, thank you very much.

JPS:
"in making the splice, did you use a marker to measure the taper and tuck?"
Yes, I did. Personally, I would like to see additional research done on the topic of rope marking. In fact, when I'm done with this post, I'm going to start shaking some people's chains to do that. 

I don't know that marking the rope would be bad because I'm simply marking where I'm going to cut a fiber. The only marks that stay are those indicating where to start the bury (the base of the eye in the finished product). Perhaps those should have a different, harmless mark placed on them. On the other hand, a splice rarely breaks at the eye. Usually, the point of failure is near the tip of the bury, at the end of the taper.

Good question, I'd like to know more about it. If the answer is as simple as using one pen versus another, that would be very convenient to implement.

Nickrosis


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 27, 2002)

If your going to shake a tree or pull a chain, then maybe ask about marking increments on rope with ink and strength loss also.

I mark the bull with a big black band at 40 feet for an indicator where regular stopper knots should go... things like that.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jun 28, 2002)

Wow, lots of hot info there Tom! Thanx Nick i might just send a line in................

How about how these devices are made for solid ropes, and some reflect on using them on hollow (12 strand) lines?

i think that if a device is rated at 12 to 19mm (Petzyl Macro cender/grabber) that a 1/2"line (@12.7+mm) would fit that definition as well as the Micros 9-13mm range. Though i would prefer stuffing that smaller one full!

My experience with buying rope from local dealers is that they favor the cheapest lines mostly. i prefer the stronger and colorful ones. If i was really wanting to explore the static lines i would look to putting the shock absorbency in some other part of the system, such as forgiveness at anchor point or a stitch pack; but don't know how applicable all that would be to actual use here.

Mmmmmm my first accesory ring on my right side carries a whistle and redirect biner/sling to even in that small way place the lifeline stuff first. i downgrade lifelines to pay the same homage; and that downgraded lifeline just becomes a rigging line to keep the wear and tear off my real rigging lines(stable braid, 5/8arborplus and static kern). i also have been experimenting on and off for years with a very tightly bound (New England?) line for boating i believe, anyone know that of which i speak? i keep this pronouncement of freshest line possible for lifelines forward in my own mind and trainees; nothing is too good or careful.......


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