# Silvey Grinders may be going out of business.



## SierraWoodsman (Jan 24, 2013)

Sorry Guy's I know that many of you that have Silvey grinders may be sad to hear this news, I know I was.
I Recieved and email today from Bailey's concerning a part I had on order with them for one of my Silvey Grinders.
It goes as follows:
"Dear Walter,
We have just been notified by Silvey that they are going out of business and that they have cancelled all orders. You had a gullet grinder assm. on order and it has been cancelled.
Thank YOu,
Diana DiLello 
Asst. Call Center Mgr."

They will be missed. They really built a High Quality, Precision product.:msp_sad:


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## Jacob J. (Jan 24, 2013)

If you saw their shop lately, you wouldn't be surprised. Every time I've gone there in the last two years, there's only like 
two lights on inside and maybe one or two people there.


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## zogger (Jan 24, 2013)

Maybe someone here can buy them out cheap and make a go of it?


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## Bill G (Jan 24, 2013)

Well just awhile back the story was they were just going to stop production of two models


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## ncfarmboy (Jan 24, 2013)

That hurts my heart:msp_crying:. It is a shame when any business goes under. Esp (for us) the maker of the finest grinder out there. I do understand why but it's still a shame.
Shep


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## tallguys (Jan 24, 2013)

This is what happens when shoppers buy the "made in you know where" stuff because it is cheaper. 

No business can stay afloat if the revenue decreases beyond a certain point.


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## TK (Jan 24, 2013)

Well then, I wanted to get out of this foolish 511ax grinder and get a Silvey this year. Looks like I waited too long for that


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## mad murdock (Jan 24, 2013)

That is a sad bit of news indeed! To add insult to injury, on a parallel plane, there has been a lot of US manufacturing capacity bought up by the Peoples Republic of China of late, in my industry (aviation) Continental Motors, and Enstrom Helicopters. The only manufacturing left may well be what we are building in our own shops within a few more years. Silvey not only built grinders, they had a product line that supported many a faller for many years. Their tree jack was the cat's meow!


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## Gologit (Jan 24, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> If you saw their shop lately, you wouldn't be surprised. Every time I've gone there in the last two years, there's only like
> two lights on inside and maybe one or two people there.



There's a good opportunity for you Jake. Re-start the business on a smaller scale, rebuild and refurbish existing products. Maybe build one type of grinder.

I sure hate to see that company name, and the good products that helped us make a living, disappear. I'd like to have the dollar value of all the timber their jacks have helped me save out.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 24, 2013)

Gologit said:


> There's a good opportunity for you Jake. Re-start the business on a smaller scale, rebuild and refurbish existing products. Maybe build one type of grinder.
> 
> I sure hate to see that company name, and the good products that helped us make a living, disappear. I'd like to have the dollar value of all the timber their jacks have helped me save out.



There's a local guy here that's been repairing and selling the jacks for years. He's one of a handful of authorized Silvey jack repairmen. There's a good chance he'll take on keeping the jacks going if Silvey really does go under. I'd be willing to take on the grinder side of it but I don't have the time, money, or motivation for that. We have a member here though, scarr, who would be great at it. He made his own carriage for a RZII grinder that I helped him get.


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## R DeLawter (Jan 24, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> If you saw their shop lately, you wouldn't be surprised. Every time I've gone there in the last two years, there's only like
> two lights on inside and maybe one or two people there.



I have always wanted to get out there and visit their business and it is sad to see them closing.
It is neat that you have been in their operation.
Isn't the owner about retirement age.

Purchased my first Silvey (510) around 1985-86 and it is still going strong. I purchased another 510 around 1989.
Closed the business in January 1993 and just recently dug the 2nd grinder out of the building I had it stored in since that time.


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## watsonr (Jan 24, 2013)

The only problem with the whole thing is that NOBODY makes a square grinder... in or out of the USA. Every manufacturer has folded and they were all USA made... Nielson, Simington and now Silvey.

This does open the door to another country making one. Seeing that demand is what it is (we're not buying them because of price or popularity), the logging industry is not in it's hay-day and cheap products due to manufacturing cost of over-seas stuff... there may never be a square grinder made again.

I believe over-seas manufacturing is not to blame here... it's users of this product. We didn't buy enough of them to keep them busy.

Stihl still makes one don't they? Time to buy all the used and new parts, prices are going up!


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## w8ye (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm glad I got on the band wagon before the cut-off point.

I bought a 32 yrs old Silvey swing arm last fall and resurrected it. It is simple enough that all the normal wear items are available at the hardware store 1/4 mi down the street. The grinding wheels are still available and are the same for the Simington and the Silvey. The only thing special about the motor is that it is ball bearing.


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## granduer (Jan 24, 2013)

*Must be true*

Silvey going out of business must be true cause I called them today and there was a message that stated "you have reached Silvey Grinders and tree jacks, we are not making chain grinders or jacks any longer. If you need parts please call Madsen's". This is true a sad thing cause they have and had the BEST GRINDERS out there.


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## mdavlee (Jan 24, 2013)

Last time I checked simington was still making swing arms. This was a few months ago. Maybe we need to check and see. If not there will be a shortage of parts very soon.


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## Philbert (Jan 24, 2013)

I heard a rumor about this a few months ago. I hope that someone picks up their designs to at least keep unique parts available.

As noted, this leaves a gap in square edge chain grinders. I don't know if a new company can keep producing the Silvey designs, because I don't think that the reversing motors and exposed wheels meet UL type certifications. 

I would hope that someone like Oregon or Tecomec would step in and produce some type of square edge grinder, even if it is a different design. Maybe they could even get the price down into the $500 to $700 range, to make it more accessible for more folks to use.

Could be an opportunity for a new company to also come in and pick up the other gaps left from the Silvey line. I still remember when small, upstart companies like Trek and Mad River Canoe started up in the 'mature' bicycle and canoe industries in the '70s, and went on to expand and dominate those markets.

Philbert


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## mdavlee (Jan 24, 2013)

I hope someone will make the stuff in the US. I would love to see someone pick up the patents and keep making them.


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## Cfaller (Jan 24, 2013)

Glad I bought two of them when i did. :msp_thumbup:


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## watsonr (Jan 24, 2013)

Cfaller said:


> Glad I bought two of them when i did. :msp_thumbup:



Me too!


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## Grande Dog (Jan 24, 2013)

Howdy,
I think all of Ray's patents were expired a while ago. The last thing I remember was the hose clamping tool that used twisted wire. That had to be in the early 90's. 
Regards
Gregg


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## Dennis Cahoon (Jan 24, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> I hope someone will make the stuff in the US. I would love to see someone pick up the patents and keep making them.



It'd be a loser IMO!......the economy has started a downward roll on many a business like this.


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## Philbert (Jan 24, 2013)

Or, maybe a company like Bailey's . . . . ?

Philbert


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## Jacob J. (Jan 24, 2013)

The Chinese right now are the only ones with cheap enough labor and decent enough technology to mass produce a reasonably-priced square grinder. Like Dennis said, things have been steadily headed downward in the timber/forestry industry for many years. The last time I stopped by Silvey's shop, they said they were only selling a handful of the jacks per year anymore, definitely not enough to keep the doors open. Some of the grinder business had been decent but declining and most of that was the 510 and RZII. 

Like Bob said though, there may be a cottage business in refurbishing old grinders. We put that old Nielsen pond and deck grinder back in service when I went to work at the shop in 2001 and it had been sitting for 15 years. It's still in service today.


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## 056 kid (Jan 24, 2013)

####...


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## procarbine2k1 (Jan 24, 2013)

I really hate to hear that. I only have experience with their round grinders, and for sure they are worth every penny. Its too bad they couldnt make a grinder to hit a lower price point, I know the expense is hard for a lot of guys to swallow regardless of their superb build quality.


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## mdavlee (Jan 24, 2013)

056 kid said:


> ####...



Did you ever call Simington? I tried today and got a message about them out of the office and to leave a message.


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## Bob Wright (Jan 24, 2013)

Other than the rights and patents if any they wouldn't be hard to reproduce. Anyone with a nice shop could easily build one or more...Bob


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## Arbonaut (Jan 24, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Could be an opportunity for a new company to also come in and pick up the other gaps left from the Silvey line. I still remember when small, upstart companies like Trek and Mad River Canoe started up in the 'mature' bicycle and canoe industries in the '70s, and went on to expand and dominate those markets.
> 
> Philbert



Those guys started out building it in their garage, so did Bill Ruger and probably Silvey. That's how it is always done, but you have to have the _spirit_. Where did it go?


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## Philbert (Jan 24, 2013)

Stroker Ace said:


> Those guys started out building it in their garage, . . .



So did Henry Ford, Bill Hewlett and David Packard, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, Earl Bakken (founded Medtronic), and a bunch of bands!

Philbert


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## srcarr52 (Jan 24, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> There's a local guy here that's been repairing and selling the jacks for years. He's one of a handful of authorized Silvey jack repairmen. There's a good chance he'll take on keeping the jacks going if Silvey really does go under. I'd be willing to take on the grinder side of it but I don't have the time, money, or motivation for that. We have a member here though, scarr, who would be great at it. He made his own carriage for a RZII grinder that I helped him get.



I have some ideas for a better square grinder. I guess it's time to put them on paper and start working out the details.


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## Bob Wright (Jan 24, 2013)

I started a swing arm grinder 3 years ago. Spent some money on a new motor and adapted it to my frame, which i changed my mind on at least 3 times. So now it sits waiting for me. I have a complete machine and weld fab shop to work from just lost intrest. I do have another business that i have been running for the last 13 years but it just sits too. But its all paid for ....Bob


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## w8ye (Jan 24, 2013)

There's nothing like the Silvey Pro Sharp and SDM4 versions for maintaining the corner on the grinding wheel. Whereas the Swing Arm and Razur Sharp II versions do the majority of the grinding with the wheel's corner.


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## srcarr52 (Jan 24, 2013)

w8ye said:


> There's nothing like the Silvey Pro Sharp and SDM4 versions for maintaining the corner on the grinding wheel. Whereas the Swing Arm and Razur Sharp II versions do the majority of the grinding with the wheel's corner.



I like the horizontal grinding of the RSII but your right about wheel life. I have an idea that should be the best of all designs.


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## tlandrum (Jan 24, 2013)

ive got a cherry razr ll that i may just sell


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## SierraWoodsman (Jan 25, 2013)

To go along with my RSII, I just scored An HDG-6 Raker Grinder this week.
So far I Absolutely Love the design of it! It was in pristine condition. 
The guy Bought it new from Madsens some years back, said he only put through 25 or so chains through it.
I would Like to Get the Silvey 510 Round then call my collection good.


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## SierraWoodsman (Jan 25, 2013)

Do you guys think pacific abrasives will keep maunfacturing the wheels for these grinders?


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## Bill G (Jan 25, 2013)

w8ye said:


> I'm glad I got on the band wagon before the cut-off point.
> 
> I bought a 32 yrs old Silvey swing arm last fall and resurrected it. It is simple enough that all the normal wear items are available at the hardware store 1/4 mi down the street. The grinding wheels are still available and are the same for the Simington and the Silvey. The only thing special about the motor is that it is ball bearing.
> 
> ...



Boy that ole girl looks familar:msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin:

Glad to see it found a good home


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## Bill G (Jan 25, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> I have some ideas for a better square grinder. I guess it's time to put them on paper and start working out the details.



Well get with it Shaun.:msp_biggrin: I bet ole Terry might sport you some cash to get a Iowa upstart company going. Iowa is a capitalist state AS IT SHOULD BE Unlike Illinois THE WELFARE STATE


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## 056 kid (Jan 25, 2013)

The old timers just used a bench grinder to grind square chisel bits..


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## 056 kid (Jan 25, 2013)

SierraWoodsman said:


> To go along with my RSII, I just scored An HDG-6 Raker Grinder this week.
> So far I Absolutely Love the design of it! It was in pristine condition.
> The guy Bought it new from Madsens some years back, said he only put through 25 or so chains through it.
> I would Like to Get the Silvey 510 Round then call my collection good.



To Hell with your collection.

I am about fed up with all you men hoarding and driving up prices on valuable tools that a working man desires.

Why do I assume your a weekend warrior? Cause you have all your badass saws listed in each post! 
Definitely a pro.......


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## RandyMac (Jan 25, 2013)

056 kid said:


> To Hell with your collection.
> 
> I am about fed up with all you men hoarding and driving up prices on valuable tools that a working man desires.
> 
> ...



"awesome"


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## wigglesworth (Jan 25, 2013)

056 kid said:


> To Hell with your collection.
> 
> I am about fed up with all you men hoarding and driving up prices on valuable tools that a working man desires.
> 
> ...




So because one only heats their home, and enjoys using good Grinders and saws, he is doing you, a "working man", an injustice by buying them? 

Maybe you should had bought a new one from silvey when u had the chance.....

I love my RSII, BTW.


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## Justsaws (Jan 25, 2013)

Apparently all those collectors did not drive of the price enough to keep Silvey in business, nor did the supposed working man.

Best wishes to business owners, tough call to make. Hope they do well after.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 25, 2013)

SierraWoodsman said:


> Do you guys think pacific abrasives will keep maunfacturing the wheels for these grinders?



Pacific Abrasive makes a wide range of products and is a big, big company. I think we're good on that end for a long time. 



Justsaws said:


> Apparently all those collectors did not drive of the price enough to keep Silvey in business, nor did the supposed working man.
> 
> Best wishes to business owners, tough call to make. Hope they do well after.



It was the son mostly running the business along with some other family members. They're a smart bunch and will be fine, whatever happens. The son is a real go-getter.


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## zogger (Jan 25, 2013)

So...did anyone actually call them up and ask what they would take for the name, tooling and existing stock?


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## w8ye (Jan 25, 2013)

It would take a revelation of the current owner's contact information? All you get is a recording with no response.


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## mdavlee (Jan 25, 2013)

Yeah there's been a recording on there since before Christmas. 

Ted there's one listed in the trading post right now. There's probably still some out west at the big shops if I was guessing.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 25, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> Yeah there's been a recording on there since before Christmas.
> 
> Ted there's one listed in the trading post right now. There's probably still some out west at the big shops if I was guessing.



There's lots of grinders out here in circulation. During the heyday, Silvey was churning those things out as fast as they could make them. 

As I've posted on the jacks before, one real good way to find cheap grinders is to hit the mills. Many of the mills here have equipment in 
storage that they'd gladly get rid of. All you have to do is ask around. There's also many retiring or retired log cutters that have equipment 
to sell. Post a wanted ad on Craigslist and you'll get 20-30 calls for grinders in the span of 2/3/4/5 days. 

It doesn't take much in the way of smarts to find this stuff and people who complain about it simply aren't trying (because they're too busy complaining.)


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## Philbert (Jan 25, 2013)

056 kid said:


> The old timers just used a bench grinder to grind square chisel bits.



I'd like to see that. Did they profile the wheel similar to the way that the Silvey wheels are?

Philbert


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## paccity (Jan 25, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> There's lots of grinders out here in circulation. During the heyday, Silvey was churning those things out as fast as they could make them.
> 
> As I've posted on the jacks before, one real good way to find cheap grinders is to hit the mills. Many of the mills here have equipment in
> storage that they'd gladly get rid of. All you have to do is ask around. There's also many retiring or retired log cutters that have equipment
> ...



mine came out of the old crown z shop in tillimook. works just fine. like jj said they are everywhere. know where there are a dozen of diff makes with in a 10 -15 mile radius.


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## w8ye (Jan 25, 2013)

It will not be long before we are sharpening our chains with a right angle disk grinder and shaping the wheel on big rock

[video=youtube;aVPyV336Fnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVPyV336Fnc[/video]


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## MCW (Jan 26, 2013)

tallguys said:


> I believe over-seas manufacturing is not to blame here... it's users of this product. We didn't buy enough of them to keep them busy.



I agree. If the Chinese made square grinders I'd agree but in this case they can hardly be blamed. Maybe it was that ATOP square filing jig thingy that put them out of business?


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## 056 kid (Jan 26, 2013)

They pay for themselves, but they are too expensive. Way to expensive, and I would say that has something to do with lack of sales.


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## 056 kid (Jan 26, 2013)

Philbert said:


> I'd like to see that. Did they profile the wheel similar to the way that the Silvey wheels are?
> 
> Philbert



That was told to me by a 3rd gen faller. He said his dad would use a bench grinder to sharpen bits. Apparently just a regular wheel with a flat surface with a 90 degree angle so I guess not. Seems like it would be hard to hold on to the bit while sharpening it though.


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## bootboy (Jan 26, 2013)

It's a small niche market and demand doesn't have to fall much before things dry up. What could have saved a company like this is diversity in their product line. They made more than half a dozen products that did the same thing, and not much else. If they offered more products that had low manufacturing costs that people needs in perpetuity, they'd have had a constant of repeat business.
Another unfortunate thing is that the quality of the products was also part of their demise, which is too bad. How many guys here have a silvey older than 10 years? 20? 30? You buy this machine and it lasts indefinitely if taken care of, and it's sad that quality can contribute to your demise... That said, Id still like to get my hands on one.


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## devonhubb (Jan 26, 2013)

The Silvey swingarm was a copy of the Simington.

Imitation is the best form of flattery.

Simington Chain Grinder | GRIND CHAIN!


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## mdavlee (Jan 26, 2013)

It seems like simington is doing work still. I didn't know they had a website now. At least there is another option now for new grinders.


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## sachsmo (Jan 26, 2013)

Always wondered how guys like Treeslingr put that crazy "beak" in the side plate?

Seems you would need to run it threw twice, of is it all in the wheel dressing?


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## mdavlee (Jan 26, 2013)

If you're getting a beak on some chains you're a little low with the corner. A beak low is better than being too high in the top plate.


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## Philbert (Jan 26, 2013)

056 kid said:


> That was told to me by a 3rd gen faller. He said his dad would use a bench grinder to sharpen bits. Apparently just a regular wheel with a flat surface with a 90 degree angle so I guess not. Seems like it would be hard to hold on to the bit while sharpening it though.



People do amazing things. Like that video where the guy in the Philippines free-hand slabs really flat boards with a STIHL 090; guys who built furniture with hand tools that I can't replicate with all types of machines; etc. Today we have kids that can't make popcorn without a microwave.

I was thinking that with a properly dressed wheel, and quite a bit of skill and experience, a guy might get an acceptably performing chain hand holding it against a bench grinder, even if not technically 'perfect'. Hmmmmm . . . might lead to a new grinder design?

Philbert


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## blsnelling (Jan 26, 2013)

Maybe it's time to sell my RSII. I haven't used it in a few years now.


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## Philbert (Jan 26, 2013)

devonhubb said:


> The Silvey swingarm was a copy of the Simington.



I have never used any of the square grinders, and the different Silvey models made things somewhat confusing. How each grinder works was _a little_ clearer when I at least got to see/touch them at Madsen's. 

People seem to have opinions on the different models of Silvey so I assume that there are some comparing the Simington vs Silvey? The Simington videos makes using that machine a little clearer. Advantages? Disadvantages?

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 26, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Maybe it's time to sell my RSII. I haven't used it in a few years now.



Fifty bucks, plus another $25 for shipping . . . .?

(See, I want one now, because of this thread, and I don't even have any square ground chain!)

Philbert


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## mdavlee (Jan 26, 2013)

The swing arm is the simplest to use. The wheel will need dressing more than a SDM 4 or pro sharp since the chain feeds across the corner. The higher end ones feed in on an angle and keep the corner longer.


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## blsnelling (Jan 26, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Fifty bucks, plus another $25 for shipping . . . .?
> 
> (See, I want one now, because of this thread, and I don't even have any square ground chain!)
> 
> Philbert



Add another zero to the end of that fifty, and it's yours.


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## Philbert (Jan 26, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Add another zero to the end of that fifty, and it's yours.



That would still be a good deal for someone!

Philbert


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## Tree Sling'r (Jan 26, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> Always wondered how guys like Treeslingr put that crazy "beak" in the side plate?
> 
> Seems you would need to run it threw twice, of is it all in the wheel dressing?



Where have you seen a chain of mine with a crazy "beak"?


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## sachsmo (Jan 26, 2013)

Tree Sling'r said:


> Where have you seen a chain of mine with a crazy "beak"?



On that 50" Cannon.

How did you do that chain?


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## sachsmo (Jan 26, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> If you're getting a beak on some chains you're a little low with the corner. A beak low is better than being too high in the top plate.



No,

this chain had a beak where the side plate meets the top plate.

AND it had another in the middle of the side plate. two beaks!


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## sachsmo (Jan 26, 2013)

Tree Sling'r said:


> Where have you seen a chain of mine with a crazy "beak"?



Me thinks you told me you had it on a ported 880 with a 10 pin?

It was several years back, but I remember I had to shorten it for my 153 with an 8 pin.

It was .375 semi skip .063.


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## mdavlee (Jan 26, 2013)

Gullet maybe?


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## sachsmo (Jan 26, 2013)

It's a work of art no mater who or how it was done.

It's been a couple years since I've had it off the saw, I am just assuming it's .063 since it is a 50" bar.

I do remember it was a Stihl semi skip.


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## Dennis Cahoon (Jan 26, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Maybe it's time to sell my RSII. I haven't used it in a few years now.



Better keep it Brad!......I've seen your hand filing and it's nothing to speak of.:msp_scared:


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## Dennis Cahoon (Jan 26, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> No,
> 
> this chain had a beak where the side plate meets the top plate.
> 
> AND it had another in the middle of the side plate. two beaks!





2 beaks......1 on top and 1 in the middle....... Yikes!

Remember this sachsmo.......a smooth cutting chain is a fast cutting chain!


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## devonhubb (Jan 26, 2013)

Philbert said:


> I have never used any of the square grinders, and the different Silvey models made things somewhat confusing. How each grinder works was _a little_ clearer when I at least got to see/touch them at Madsen's.
> 
> People seem to have opinions on the different models of Silvey so I assume that there are some comparing the Simington vs Silvey? The Simington videos makes using that machine a little clearer. Advantages? Disadvantages?
> 
> Philbert



I have used and owned both Silvey & Simington swingarm grinders. The later model Simingtons (451 b&c) have superior adjustments. I sold the Silvey. Still have two Simington's.


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## Tree Sling'r (Jan 26, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> On that 50" Cannon.
> 
> How did you do that chain?



I never ground that 50" chain because I never used it. It must have been factory. On the 880 I used a 9 pin with a 36" bar. The only time that Cannon was on saws of mine was for a picture.
I am pretty anal about my chains, no beaks or half moons for me.


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## Braintree (Jan 26, 2013)

devonhubb said:


> I have used and owned both Silvey & Simington swingarm grinders. The later model Simingtons (451 b&c) have superior adjustments. I sold the Silvey. Still have two Simington's.



devonhubb,I took a look at the simington web site.Looks like Kelly the guy building the grinder is a one man band.Can you grind the rakers with this grinder?It's to bad Silvey is going out of business,but there is simington still making a USA made grinder.Hope they can hold on.I will place a order with them in a mouth or so.I just like that it made here in America,buy Americans


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## paccity (Jan 26, 2013)

Tree Sling'r said:


> I never ground that 50" chain because I never used it. It must have been factory. On the 880 I used a 9 pin with a 36" bar. The only time that Cannon was on saws of mine was for a picture.
> I am pretty anal about my chains, no beaks or half moons for me.



if it was new i think i know what he is looking at. depending on the brand i've seen where you look at the side plate from the out side the side plate looks like they ground a little side beak and there is a little beak down toward the gullet on the side plate. if that makes sense. i've only seen it on some oregon and husky branded chain. almost look's like a notch in the sideplate. these are of stihl and oregon. which don't have that like i've seen.




. the chains with that factory grind cut good but don't last long.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 26, 2013)

paccity said:


> if it was new i think i know what he is looking at. depending on the brand i've seen where you look at the side plate from the out side the side plate looks like they ground a little side beak and there is a little beak down toward the gullet on the side plate. if that makes sense. i've only seen it on some oregon and husky branded chain. almost look's like a notch in the sideplate. these are of stihl and oregon. which don't have that like i've seen. the chains with that factory grind cut good but don't last long.



That "side beak" is more pronounced on new Oregon chain I think. It comes from when they initially grind the cutter square. I've never found new out-of-the box chain to be all that sharp, but the old-school Carlton (manufactured up until around 1997) was the sharpest out of the box. These days it's Stihl. I grind all new chain I use for log cutting.


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## paccity (Jan 26, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> That "side beak" is more pronounced on new Oregon chain I think. It comes from when they initially grind the cutter square. I've never found new out-of-the box chain to be all that sharp, but the old-school Carlton (manufactured up until around 1997) was the sharpest out of the box. These days it's Stihl. I grind all new chain I use for log cutting.



your rite on that , i had to root around for the untouched stuff for the pic.


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## Philbert (Jan 26, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Maybe it's time to sell my RSII. I haven't used it in a few years now.





Philbert said:


> I have never used any of the square grinders, . . .





Philbert said:


> (See, I want one now, because of this thread, and I don't even have any square ground chain!)



OK, now it looks like another trip back to this thread!

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/191921.htm

Philbert


----------



## sachsmo (Jan 26, 2013)

Tree Sling'r said:


> I never ground that 50" chain because I never used it. It must have been factory. On the 880 I used a 9 pin with a 36" bar. The only time that Cannon was on saws of mine was for a picture.
> I am pretty anal about my chains, no beaks or half moons for me.



well that's the only square grind I have ever seen.

Perhaps my terminology was wrong.

I surely didn't mean to insult you.

Have seen a few videos of you cutting trees, it is obvious you know how to sharpen a chain.


I'l go to the corner now


----------



## Tree Sling'r (Jan 26, 2013)

sachsmo said:


> well that's the only square grind I have ever seen.
> 
> Perhaps my terminology was wrong.
> 
> ...



Haha, your good bud, no worries.


----------



## SierraWoodsman (Jan 26, 2013)

devonhubb said:


> I have used and owned both Silvey & Simington swingarm grinders. The later model Simingtons (451 b&c) have superior adjustments. I sold the Silvey. Still have two Simington's.



I must say that I prefer the Silvey R2 over my Simington. I Find the accuracy Is better with the R2. I have the very early model Simington swing-arm(450), It doesn't have the adjustment on the arm like the later Simington's 451-A/B/C. Also Mine may have been knocked out of adjustment, as the arm height in relationship to the wheel is higher on one side than the other. I have'nt figured out how to correct this yet. Don't get me wrong, the Simington will put just as keen of an edge. Just prefer the R2 so far.


----------



## paccity (Jan 26, 2013)

SierraWoodsman said:


> I must say that I prefer the Silvey R2 over my Simington. I Find the accuracy Is better with the R2. I have the very early model Simington swing-arm(450), It doesn't have the adjustment on the arm like the later Simington's 451-A/B/C. Also Mine may have been knocked out of adjustment, as the arm height in relationship to the wheel is higher on one side than the other. I have'nt figured out how to correct this yet. Don't get me wrong, the Simington will put just as keen of an edge. Just prefer the R2 so far.


shim the motor true.


----------



## Jacob J. (Jan 27, 2013)

paccity said:


> shim the motor true.



That and the bearings in the swing arm of the Simington get sloppy, so you either have to replace them or do some work to the arm to get it more stable.


----------



## w8ye (Jan 27, 2013)

I bought new swing arm bearings for my Silvey swing arm at Grainger's.

The Silvey swing arms are adjustable for tilt with set screws but you can disarm this feature with a 5/8" Oilite bushing from the hardware store.


----------



## MCW (Jan 27, 2013)

Hey just a quick one guys but after looking at a few close up pictures of square grinder wheels it doesn't look like the wheel has to be perfect to produce a good cutting edge (photo below is from the Simington site listed in a previous post). To me the edge looks like a Beaver has been chewing on it...







Has anybody run the ABN/CBN wheels on the square grinders? I'd think they'd be well worthwhile as they have a tight edge and don't need dressing.


----------



## w8ye (Jan 27, 2013)

If you notice that little brown tinge on the top surface of the corner? It is an indication of the stone being dull right at that point.

To finish the chain, you need to dress off that brown tinge and make another light pass around the cutter teeth.


----------



## w8ye (Jan 27, 2013)

MCW said:


> Hey just a quick one guys but after looking at a few close up pictures of square grinder wheels it doesn't look like the wheel has to be perfect to produce a good cutting edge (photo below is from the Simington site listed in a previous post). To me the edge looks like a Beaver has been chewing on it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The blue stones last longer


----------



## belgian (Jan 27, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> . These days it's Stihl. I grind all new chain I use for log cutting.



Dang Jacob, you are making me look real bad now.....If I can sharpen a chain that cuts like a new one, I am a real happy camper already .:msp_thumbup:


----------



## devonhubb (Jan 27, 2013)

Braintree said:


> devonhubb,I took a look at the simington web site.Looks like Kelly the guy building the grinder is a one man band.Can you grind the rakers with this grinder?It's to bad Silvey is going out of business,but there is simington still making a USA made grinder.Hope they can hold on.I will place a order with them in a mouth or so.I just like that it made here in America,buy Americans



Braintree, Simington sells an add on gizmo for grinding rakers. It replaces the chain holder. It is pretty slick.


----------



## Philbert (Feb 1, 2013)

*Who Says Christmas is in December?*



blsnelling said:


> Maybe it's time to sell my RSII. I haven't used it in a few years now.





Philbert said:


> (See, I want one now, because of this thread, and I don't even have any square ground chain!)




Because of this thread . . . I took Brad up on his offer and this arrived today!








I will probably have to wait until warmer weather to get it set up and get familiar with it. I want to 'play' with square grinds on smaller (.325, 3/8 low profile) chains. If I find anything interesting, I will start a thread on it.

(_P.S. - if anyone is planning on going to the Iowa GTG and passes by Brad's house in Ohio, please let me know - there is still a stand that was too heavy to ship!_)

Philbert


----------



## paccity (Feb 1, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Because of this thread . . . I took Brad up on his offer and this arrived today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


have fun , looks good . on the 3/8 low pro i have tried squareing them up , cuts good but i need to play with the angles a little.


----------



## srcarr52 (Feb 1, 2013)

Philbert said:


> (_P.S. - if anyone is planning on going to the Iowa GTG and passes by Brad's house in Ohio, please let me know - there is still a stand that was too heavy to ship!_)
> 
> Philbert



I have a friend/colleague that will be driving here from Columbus, OH around the 22nd of this month. I'll attend the Spring Iowa GTG. If Brads isn't too far off from his route I could get him to pick it up.


----------



## Philbert (Feb 1, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> I have a friend/colleague that will be driving here from Columbus, OH around the 22nd of this month. I'll attend the Spring Iowa GTG. If Brads isn't too far off from his route I could get him to pick it up.



That would be great if it works out! Let's get in contact when things get closer!

Philbert


----------



## willowrun23 (Feb 1, 2013)

*Silvey grinders*



mdavlee said:


> Last time I checked simington was still making swing arms. This was a few months ago. Maybe we need to check and see. If not there will be a shortage of parts very soon.



Too bad I was going to buy one, it is harder and harder to buy quality tools anymore, if you can buy a older tool in good condition it is far better than most the crap they sell now,and will most likely out live whatever you can now buy. Heck you can't hardly buy a water hose nozzle now that works, they are all china crap!


----------



## SierraWoodsman (Feb 2, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Because of this thread . . . I took Brad up on his offer and this arrived today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Congrats on the R2, Looks like new almost, Brad sure took real good care of it.
I really like .325" square Chisel, it's Great performer.


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 2, 2013)

How you liking the simington so far?


----------



## SierraWoodsman (Feb 2, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> How you liking the simington so far?



The Simington is a well made grinder. The moter is more robust than the Silvey IMHO.
Mine is a very early model 450. I put a Salmon wheel on it and got some good results.
It does have a mis-alignment as the arm is a different height in relationship to the wheel from one side to 
the other (about 1/4-inch). I went to the Simington site posted in this thread, and it goes over shimming the moter true in a video.
I have have yet to have the oportunity to try to fix this yet. I also want to get a hold of the main guy there @ Simington to 
see if the arm of the 451-C will bolt up to the 450. This would make the grinder much more precise and versitile.
I may just sell it for what I have into it and keep the R2.


----------



## w8ye (Feb 2, 2013)

There is almost no difference between the Simington 450 and the original Silvey swing arm. They even had the same Dayton motor.

The main difference was how the knob was made that held the chain holder on.

Simington 450






Silvey early style swing arm that belongs to me.


----------



## Tiewire (Feb 2, 2013)

opcorn:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 2, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Because of this thread . . . I took Brad up on his offer and this arrived today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How's that work with two stones on it at the same time?


----------



## willowrun23 (Feb 4, 2013)

*Sinington Grinders*

Yes they still are in buisness, asked them if they made a regular round chisel or semi- chisel chain grinder. which they don't. You just don't see square chisel chain in my area.


----------



## Philbert (Feb 5, 2013)

*Good News!*

I had written Silvey a letter asking about parts for my _new-to-me grinder_ and got a call today from 'Jim'.

He said that parts are still available through Madsens.

He also said that it was not certain that they would be going out of business. They are not producing grinders right now, which takes a lot of start up time, but they are not selling off the equipment or the business, and nothing is final.

So, if you really want a new Silvey grinder, or really want to see them stay in business, this might be a good time to send them a letter telling them which models you like, which ones you would want to buy, and why they need to keep going!

Philbert


----------



## willowrun23 (Feb 5, 2013)

*Silveys or not!*



Philbert said:


> I had written Silvey a letter asking about parts for my _new-to-me grinder_ and got a call today from 'Jim'.
> 
> He said that parts are still available through Madsens.
> 
> ...



Sounds good, but I wish they could make one unit that does Square&Round chains!


----------



## w8ye (Feb 5, 2013)

I gather from these threads that Silvey used up all their castings and due to low volume have not ordered anymore.

They have to order the castings in a large enough lot that it would take more than a year to sell off the grinders.

This would explain the long lead time for for start up as all the materials will have to be ordered in to make the grinders.

Meanwhile Madsens or possibly Bailey's should be able to handle your needs?


----------



## Philbert (Feb 6, 2013)

Could be. But the good news is that maybe they will stay in business, even if they offer fewer models.

Philbert


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## devonhubb (Feb 6, 2013)

willowrun23 said:


> Sounds good, but I wish they could make one unit that does Square&Round chains!



Any of the swing arm grinders will grind both square and round. You just have to dress the wheel for whatever shape you want. Two wheels are best, keep one dressed for round and the other for square. Swap as needed.


----------



## 046 (Feb 18, 2013)

devonhubb said:


> Any of the swing arm grinders will grind both square and round. You just have to dress the wheel for whatever shape you want. Two wheels are best, keep one dressed for round and the other for square. Swap as needed.



hmmm .. did not know that ... will have to try that sometime with my Simington 450 swingarm. but each wheel change needs dressing to true back up. does not sound like a casual swap ... besides, got a Silvey grinder for round chains 

good to hear Silvey may be staying in business and/or someone purchased the rights and are continuing that direction. that's just what happens when original owners and/or relatives gets too old to continue and cannot find someone to take over business.


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## Philbert (Nov 23, 2015)

_*"The Silvey Chaingrinder site is closing permanently on Dec 1 2015.*

*If you own or use any Silvey products, you may want to download and save the user manuals and diagrams below.*

*We regret any inconvenience and thank our customers for their loyalty and support over the years."*_

Philbert


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## Bill G (Nov 23, 2015)

Philbert said:


> _*"The Silvey Chaingrinder site is closing permanently on Dec 1 2015.*
> 
> *If you own or use any Silvey products, you may want to download and save the user manuals and diagrams below.*
> 
> ...




I saw that last week when I tried to see if there had been any activity

The next question is who stocks the Simington


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## Philbert (Nov 23, 2015)

Bill G said:


> The next question is who stocks the Simington


My 'next question' is why is nobody buying the rights to the Silvey name, designs, patents (if any are still enforceable), parts inventory, support business, etc., and re-establishing the company?

Bailey's? Madsens? Blount? etc.?

Seems to be a market - maybe product liability concerns on reversible grinder designs?

Philbert


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## Majorpayne (Nov 23, 2015)

Bill G said:


> I saw that last week when I tried to see if there had been any activity
> 
> The next question is who stocks the Simington


I think Madsens.


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## nstueve (Nov 23, 2015)

This just makes the used ones out there more valuable to those that own them.


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## mdavlee (Nov 23, 2015)

Madsens got the parts over a year ago. 

I was told they would rather go out of business than go overseas for manufacturing. Said they couldn't compete price wise and make them here


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## Bill G (Nov 23, 2015)

nstueve said:


> This just makes the used ones out there more valuable to those that own them.



Well that is a matter of perspective


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## Skeans (Nov 23, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> Madsens got the parts over a year ago.
> 
> I was told they would rather go out of business than go overseas for manufacturing. Said they couldn't compete price wise and make them here


When I was down at Silvey almost two years ago the owner told me he was ready to retire was the main thing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## srcarr52 (Nov 23, 2015)

I bought a used RSII that needed some work so I've tooled up to make most of the consumable parts like chain holders, and chain stops.


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## Philbert (Nov 23, 2015)

About 32MB to download all of the manuals and exploded diagrams on their website, if you care to archive them.

(Although, somehow, '_exploded_ view' does not sound right with grinding wheels and hydraulic pumps . . . . )

Philbert


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## Skeans (Nov 23, 2015)

I've got the fix for the pro sharps that break the pawl cables if anyone needs pictures.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Clint C. (Dec 29, 2015)

devonhubb said:


> I have used and owned both Silvey & Simington swingarm grinders. The later model Simingtons (451 b&c) have superior adjustments. I sold the Silvey. Still have two Simington's.


You may be on to something because I just talked with a guy yesterday who owns a tree company and he was selling an older Silvey Razur Sharp II. He told me he was selling it because he never uses it because he has an older Simington swingarm that he has had for like 20-years and he likes it better. I am hoping to pick up a used (the guy said he used it two times) Simington 451 C grinder for $825 today or tomorrow. I can not wait to start playing around with it.


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## Bill G (Dec 29, 2015)

Clint C. said:


> You may be on to something because I just talked with a guy yesterday who owns a tree company and he was selling an older Silvey Razur Sharp II. ..........................



So is the Silvey still for sale?


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## Clint C. (Dec 29, 2015)

Bill G said:


> So is the Silvey still for sale?


As of yesterday it was. He wants $600 and won't go lower. I won't spend that on a grinder that is probably 20-years old and is not even made anymore. Realisticly it is probably a $400 grinder.


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## nstueve (Dec 29, 2015)

Clint C. said:


> As of yesterday it was. He wants $600 and won't go lower. I won't spend that on a grinder that is probably 20-years old and is not even made anymore. Realisticly it is probably a $400 grinder.


If they are in good/lightly used shape $600 is a great deal. New simington's are $1200. People worry about parts but most the consumables are just machined steel parts that Shaun makes now. So unless your electric motor fails (unlikely) you'll be in good shape for a long time. I also checked with my local electrical shop and showed them the motor and they said (even being very conservative) $225 is the most it should ever cost to rewind a motor and $150 was more realistic.


----------



## nstueve (Dec 29, 2015)

Bill G said:


> Well that is a matter of perspective



Silvey's have more adjustability without disassembly and I like that about them. If you aren't aligned with a simington you have to shim the motor.

Either way a $600 grinder is cheap for square grind. Especially if you want to use square to do all your cutting.


----------



## Clint C. (Dec 29, 2015)

nstueve said:


> If they are in good/lightly used shape $600 is a great deal. New simington's are $1200. People worry about parts but most the consumables are just machined steel parts that Shaun makes now. So unless your electric motor fails (unlikely) you'll be in good shape for a long time. I also checked with my local electrical shop and showed them the motor and they said (even being very conservative) $225 is the most it should ever cost to rewind a motor and $150 was more realistic.


Good to know.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 30, 2015)

Clint C. said:


> As of yesterday it was. He wants $600 and won't go lower. I won't spend that on a grinder that is probably 20-years old and is not even made anymore. Realisticly it is probably a $400 grinder.




Well if it is still for sale I am interested simply put.....................


----------



## c5rulz (Dec 30, 2015)

I am working on a mod to convert the cheap Tecomec style clones to a Silvey style pawl system. The cheesy cam will go away and a right and left pawl will be installed. The only thing is it will not be reversible.


----------



## Clint C. (Dec 30, 2015)

c5rulz said:


> I am working on a mod to convert the cheap Tecomec style clones to a Silvey style pawl system. The cheesy cam will go away and a right and left pawl will be installed. The only thing is it will not be reversible.



Sounds like a good plan. My understanding is that the square grinders need to grind into the tooth. Using and Oregon 511AX type grinder you can not do that as you stated. I think that the MAXX grinders used to be able to run the wheel both ways. I also remember there were some diagrams out there showing how to make the Oregon type grinders reversible. Good luck.


----------



## Clint C. (Dec 30, 2015)

Bill G said:


> Well if it is still for sale I am interested simply put.....................


It is on Portland, Oregon Craigslist right now with three pictures. Call the guy up and see if he can ship it and if he will take a non in person payment.???? Me personally I am willing to spend another $400 and get a brand new, still in production Simington 451C grinder.


----------



## srcarr52 (Dec 30, 2015)

c5rulz said:


> I am working on a mod to convert the cheap Tecomec style clones to a Silvey style pawl system. The cheesy cam will go away and a right and left pawl will be installed. The only thing is it will not be reversible.



The Silvey chain stop pawl system on the 300/500/510 grinders where really nicely done. Non reversible, that can be fixed.



Clint C. said:


> Sounds like a good plan. My understanding is that the square grinders need to grind into the tooth. Using and Oregon 511AX type grinder you can not do that as you stated. I think that the MAXX grinders used to be able to run the wheel both ways. I also remember there were some diagrams out there showing how to make the Oregon type grinders reversible. Good luck.



I did a thread many years back on making a NT grinder reversing. They are most likely a 3 wire motor so you have to dig into the winding to find where they connected the neutrals together and bring them out separately. This way you can reverse the polarity on the starting winding using a Dual Pole Dual Terminal switch.


----------



## madhatte (Dec 30, 2015)

devonhubb said:


> Simington sells an add on gizmo for grinding rakers. It replaces the chain holder. It is pretty slick.



Does anybody have further information on this device? I don't see anything on their website, nor have I seen pics of one anywhere. I'm specifically wondering if something similar can be adapted to the R2.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 30, 2015)

c5rulz said:


> I am working on a mod to convert the cheap Tecomec style clones to a Silvey style pawl system.



You probably should clarify that this will still be for round ground chains - not for square ground chains. Some guys don't realize that Silvey made both.



Clint C. said:


> I think that the MAXX grinders used to be able to run the wheel both ways.


I don't think that the MAXX motor is reversible, but it has additional head range of motion, that allows you to grind both R and L cutters inside-out or outside-in.

_"The Italian-made MAXX grinder allows bi-directional grinding because it's designed with a head that tilts left and right (90 degrees to 50 degrees) and a table that's fully symmetrical. Unlike other grinders, this unique design allows you to get the same results on both left and right hand cutters"
_
Changeover to other side of chain starts at about 1:26 in this video:
__

Great idea. Mixed reviews from AS members over the years about the quality.

Philbert


----------



## c5rulz (Dec 30, 2015)

Philbert said:


> You probably should clarify that this will still be for round ground chains - not for square ground chains. Some guys don't realize that Silvey made both.Philbert



OK, the mod will try to imitate the pawl system of the Silvey 510. Ya know, this one:


----------



## nstueve (Dec 30, 2015)

c5rulz said:


> OK, the mod will try to imitate the pawl system of the Silvey 510. Ya know, this one:


Can I ask how wide and tall your chain vice is? I might need to have one machined for me...


----------



## madhatte (Dec 30, 2015)

The pawls on a Silvey 510 are great. The angle in the corner grabs the back of the cutter and with a little pressure forces the front of the cutter down. All you have to do is slide the chain forward to the next cutter and pull back. It's ingenious.


----------



## c5rulz (Dec 30, 2015)

madhatte said:


> The pawls on a Silvey 510 are great. The angle in the corner grabs the back of the cutter and with a little pressure forces the front of the cutter down. All you have to do is slide the chain forward to the next cutter and pull back. It's ingenious.




You sir have it in a nutshell. A totally opposite approach of all the others trying to clamp from the driver which then moves the cutter. The utter simplicity of this approach is great.


----------



## c5rulz (Dec 30, 2015)

nstueve said:


> Can I ask how wide and tall your chain vice is? I might need to have one machined for me...



PM sent.


----------



## Bill G (Dec 30, 2015)

c5rulz said:


> You sir have it in a nutshell. A totally opposite approach of all the others trying to clamp from the driver which then moves the cutter. The utter simplicity of this approach is great.




Well a round grinder square grinding chain?????????????????? I wish you the best and hats off you


----------



## c5rulz (Dec 31, 2015)

Bill G said:


> Well a round grinder square grinding chain?????????????????? I wish you the best and hats off you



My apologies for the confusion, The Silvey 510 is for grinding round chain. My attempt with the Tecomec is to make the vice similar to the Silvey system for round chain.

I have thought about getting a square grinder but of what I cut is very dirty and chains often don't last a half a tank of fuel. Some say semi chisel for dirty wood but I don't care for it and use chisel.


----------



## devonhubb (Dec 31, 2015)

madhatte said:


> Does anybody have further information on this device? I don't see anything on their website, nor have I seen pics of one anywhere. I'm specifically wondering if something similar can be adapted to the R2.



Here is a poor pic of it.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 31, 2015)

Is that a Silvey product? Grinding on the sides of wheels is usually a 'no-no'. 

Philbert


----------



## madhatte (Dec 31, 2015)

devonhubb said:


> Here is a poor pic of it.




Oh, wow, interesting. I would also be a bit nervous about grinding on the side of a wheel but I can totally see how to rig this up. Gonna have to think on it a bit.


----------



## madhatte (Dec 31, 2015)

I think I may have an idea for how to lash up something like that to use with a bench grinder. Let me cogitate a bit.


----------



## devonhubb (Jan 1, 2016)

Philbert said:


> Is that a Silvey product? Grinding on the sides of wheels is usually a 'no-no'.
> 
> Philbert


I bought it from Simington maybe 4 or 5 years ago. The bottom corner does the grinding. Just like the top corner when you are sharpening a tooth.


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 1, 2016)

Philbert said:


> Is that a Silvey product? Grinding on the sides of wheels is usually a 'no-no'.
> 
> Philbert



We refer to it as side winding(Winding, like winding a watch) where I work. I grind for a living and it's pretty common and safe to do under certain circumstance. Any under .020 stock removal and it is no problem. The wheel in use looks to be pretty closed so I'm guessing at least an 80? We normally run more open grain wheels to avoid the heat aspect. With adjusting rakers the stock removal would be very small. The advantage is the surface area of the wheel means you can run a lot of parts and keep them consistant. If the arm was lower on that one you could use most of the wheel.






I'm currently doing mine with radii to match the factory set ups.


----------



## Philbert (Jan 1, 2016)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> I grind for a living and it's pretty common and safe to do under certain circumstance. Any under .020 stock removal and it is no problem.


I assume that you are referring to incidental use. With a dedicated depth gauge fixture there could be a lot of wear placed on the side of that wheel, if someone was playing 'catch up' or had a lot of chains to do do commercially. So I am surprised that this design was offered.

The dedicated Silvey HDG-6 used a separate wheel, instead of the side of one intended for square grinding chains, for this purpose:



Your design, of course, also uses the edge of the wheel, as it was designed to be used. Similarly, grinding depth gauges with a basic Oregon/Tecomec/clone grinder uses the edge of the wheel, which others have profiled as well to obtain the factory shape.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jan 1, 2016)

Attached is the manual and IPL for the Silvey HDG-6, if anyone is interested in the mechanism.

Philbert


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 1, 2016)

Philbert said:


> I assume that you are referring to incidental use. With a dedicated depth gauge fixture there could be a lot of wear placed on the side of that wheel, if someone was playing 'catch up' or had a lot of chains to do do commercially. So I am surprised that this design was offered.
> 
> The dedicated Silvey HDG-6 used a separate wheel, instead of the side of one intended for square grinding chains, for this purpose:
> View attachment 475223
> ...



We normally run about 3000 -5000 parts on a dress but I assure you there would be more stock and surface than what we are dealing with here. Normally just dress between jobs. There is a whole lot more grinding surface on the side of the wheel than the width, loading of the wheel comes into play here.(burn) All wheels need dressed to cut well and stay cool. That's why a diamond or borazon wheel will last but you get into the heat issues. I guess not a big deal on rakers but it is on the teeth as you well know.

Heck, most of the "dealers" around here don't even mess with adjusting the rakers. There was a little shop that we got several saws cheap because they said the bars were bad because it wouldn't cut, even after they sharpened the chain. We've all seen that.


----------



## Philbert (Jan 1, 2016)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> Normally just dress between jobs. . . . All wheels need dressed to cut well and stay cool.


I can say with confidence, that I am probably one of the '_best dressed'_ guys here on Arboristsite, even though most of my clothes are old and don't usually match. Regular dressing of the wheels to expose fresh abrasive, in addition to maintaining the profile, was one of my biggest lessons learned for sharpening chain.

Thanks for bringing up the '_open grain_' stuff - something I remember from coated abrasives (_a.k.a. 'sandpaper'_), along with abrasive type and grit size. 
There are a variety of wheels available for the 8" Silvey grinders:
http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...ding-Wheels/Chain-Grinding-Wheels-8-Diameter/

But very few offered for the Oregon 5-3/4" _in the US._:
http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...-Wheels/Chain-Grinding-Wheels-5-3-4-Diameter/

Although, more are offered by the manufacturer in Europe:
http://www.tecomec.com/subcategory/accessori_per_motosega_accessori_per_affilatrici/index.htm

It is one of the reasons I experimented with the resionoid wheels:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/resinoid-grinder-wheels.256733/

For commercial grinding applications, you probably have more choices. But putting better quality wheels, even on cheap grinders, and dressing frequently, has worked pretty well for me, even with the limited choices available to me.

Philbert


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## Skeans (Jan 1, 2016)

For the money they charge for a Simington my pro sharp wasn't much more brand new. Simington chain holder isn't as good or as true with holding the tooth and they don't compensate for wheel wear.

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## SierraWoodsman (Jan 1, 2016)

Thanks Philbert for the HDG-6 manuals. It's a great grinder for raker / gullet maintenance just never got the manuals for it. 


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