# Traditions Express Double O/U 50 Cal Muzzleloader.



## Turkeyslayer

Anyone own one, or have shot one? They look real nice and I think it would be the cats ass for my muzzleloader hunt. Heres a link http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=REX-100


----------



## wigglesworth

The last traditions muzzleloader I saw, had the scope threads tapped into the bore.....

Two Words.....Thompson Center 


I will say though, the concept of an over and under Mz is quite intriguing.


----------



## Turkeyslayer

I have had a couple of CVA's with good results (my current gun is a CVA), and have also shot a savage (smokeless powder) and a few T/C's, they are nice guns as well. But dang it I want to have more than 1 shot at a time. I have been fortunate enough in the past to reload quick enough to shoot more than 1 deer from a group. But it still would be nice to know you have the extra shot for back up.


----------



## Turkeyslayer

Are Traditions known for inferior quality?


----------



## indiansprings

I have owned and shot Traditions muzzle loaders, they are ok, middle of the road quality, function as advertised. That one has the look of an EAA import out of Czech or some other former eastern block country.

I own a Thompson Center Encore and wouldn't trade it for two of the Traditions. The T/C quality and accuracy is top shelf. With 150 grains of pyrodex and powerbelt bullets I can ring our gong at 150 yards with no issue, with proper practice I might attempt a 200 yard shot with it. It it were me personally I'd look at T/C's offerings. In todays economy might pick up a really cleaned used one cheap, with the Encore you have the option of buying rifle and shotgun barrels to use on the receiver.


----------



## wigglesworth

Here is my current setup....







And here is a 3 shot group at a 100 yards...





I have about $400 in it, but it's getting a scope upgrade before next season. Not enough eye relief......ouch.


----------



## wigglesworth

indiansprings said:


> proper practice I might attempt a 200 yard shot with it....



I shoot regularly at 200 with it practicing. At 200 yards, its an 8" drop, at 250 yards, its a 24" drop. Big loss of velocity past 200. This is shooting a 250 gr barnes MZ, in a Harvester Crushed rib sabot, with 130 gr of loose 2F and a T7 primer. I have over 4lb's of powder thru her so far.....she is just gettin broke in


----------



## Turkeyslayer

wigglesworth said:


> Here is my current setup....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is a 3 shot group at a 100 yards...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have about $400 in it, but it's getting a scope upgrade before next season. Not enough eye relief......ouch.



Nice gun The only thing I wasnt keen on with the T/C's that I have shot (triumph) is the fact that one must push forward on the hinge release (?) to lock the barrel back in position. I could see that possibly being an issue in the heat of battle with those damn deer


----------



## Turkeyslayer

I have a CVA wolf with a Bushnell red dot scope. I shoot 195gr powerbelt bullets with 150gr of pyrodex (3 pellets). I was shooting 100gr of pyrodex but wasnt using it up fast enough so I switched to 150gr. Most of my hunting is in the bush or small fields so most shots are 100+/- yards or less.


----------



## wigglesworth

Turkeyslayer said:


> Nice gun The only thing I wasnt keen on with the T/C's that I have shot (triumph) is the fact that one must push forward on the hinge release (?) to lock the barrel back in position. I could see that possibly being an issue in the heat of battle with those damn deer



I dont really like the triumph. Too gimicky IMHO. And the "tool less" breach plug is a joke. I have setup 3 TC Omega's and all 3 shot under 1" at 100 yards. Its my favorite by far. Mine will shoot circles around my buddys Stainless Encore.


----------



## Turkeyslayer

wigglesworth said:


> I dont really like the triumph. Too gimicky IMHO. And the "tool less" breach plug is a joke. I have setup 3 TC Omega's and all 3 shot under 1" at 100 yards. Its my favorite by far. Mine will shoot circles around my buddys Stainless Encore.



Good to know, thanks


----------



## Hansenj11

I have a traditions and called to get a warranty issue fixed. The customer service is terrible.


----------



## wigglesworth

Turkeyslayer said:


> I have a CVA wolf with a Bushnell red dot scope. I shoot 195gr powerbelt bullets with 150gr of pyrodex (3 pellets). I was shooting 100gr of pyrodex but wasnt using it up fast enough so I switched to 150gr. Most of my hunting is in the bush or small fields so most shots are 100+/- yards or less.



Most of my shot's are short as well. To date, the longest kill I have is at 250 yards. Have you shot the powerbelts on the bench? I havent found a powerbelt that would shoot under 4" at 100 yards. Terrible accuracy in the several guns I've tried. Accuracy will greatly improve with a good bullet and sabot and loose powder. They are no where near as convenient, but way more accurate.


----------



## dingeryote

Traditions dosn't have the best reputation out there.

Lotsa roughly machined parts, sloppy castings etc. that end up bieng problematic.

They have improved quite a bit over the years, but no golden ring yet on the fit and finish. Unfortunately it's the small details that add up on any rifle, that seperates the poor from the Good, and good from the great.

Any double rifle is a PITA and time consuming to regulate when both barrels are of excellent quality. That's why the fine doubles from Hollands and Kreighoff are so damned expensive, and STILL not perfectly regulated with every loading, but darn close with one load, and close enough with several.

Traditions regulating the thing even somewhat close, with any load, would be surprising. Every barrel is a rule unto themselves LOL!!!

How close they are regulated, and your expectations are the question.

Don't sell the old smokepole before you are completely happy with the new double would be my advice.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## indiansprings

In my Encore I can get just over an inch groups with the Power Belts.
However, I don't think there is a better bullet on the market than Barnes for big game. I've shot alot of larger animals with centerfire using Barnes X and have had perfect performance. Tough animals like Nilgai antelope and bull elk where penetration is key, Barnes is first choice.


----------



## Turkeyslayer

wigglesworth said:


> Most of my shot's are short as well. To date, the longest kill I have is at 250 yards. Have you shot the powerbelts on the bench? I havent found a powerbelt that would shoot under 4" at 100 yards. Terrible accuracy in the several guns I've tried. Accuracy will greatly improve with a good bullet and sabot and loose powder. They are no where near as convenient, but way more accurate.



I have used sandbags on my picnic table to bench the gun. I will shot a 4 shot group not counting the first shot, swab and repeat. I can shoot 3"-4" groups at 100 yards fairly consistently with the odd flyer. The thing for me about shooting sabots and loose powder is the speed of reloading. With the combo I shoot I may lose a little accuracy but I gain a bunch in speed of reloading. I'm not to the trophy hunting stage of my life yet, even though I have shot a bunch of fairly nice bucks. It's all about putting meat in the freezer. If its brown its down, and the more the merrier

Edit: I would like to hammer multiple deer when they come in in herds/groups, hence the need for speed (or a double barrel)


----------



## Turkeyslayer

In my area I only have one week to hunt with a gun and its muzzleloaders only. I would prefer rifles with shotguns a close second, but no such luck


----------



## Turkeyslayer

I have a couple of guys in my hunting party that use the savage smokeless guns and they seem very accurate


----------



## wigglesworth

3" to 4" is way out of my tolerance. If a gun wont shoot 1" or less on a good rest, Im looking for a problem, or the gun is on its way out the door. I agree, powerbelts and pellets are far faster to load, but id rather know where my shot was going, rather than how fast I can load. Some people claim real good accuracy with pellets, but in my testing, my groups went from 1/2" to 1.5" at 100 yards, just by switching to pellets. Remember, accuracy is what puts meat in the freezer.....


----------



## craddock

I too have an encore and I have tried both the pellets and the loose powders. I found that using the loose powder and a 250 grain shockwave bullet that it was far more accurate. My groups stay around 1 inch at a hundred yards and I have taken several out to two hundred yards. If you don't hit what you aiming at then speed is no good. Using speed loaders really help the speed thing. I have found that few double rifles ever shoot accurate with both barrels.


----------



## DANOAM

I don't remember hearing anything negative about Traditions but I have no experience with them. Some time ago I was told that CVA guns were of poor quality, but I know people who shoot them with no problems and good results. I have a couple T/C's, a Hawken and a Renegade, both in .50 cal. I built them from kits and they both shoot great.


----------



## indiansprings

Do any of you blackpowder shooters find that your rifle shoots better with a fouled bore vs. a clean bore? The reason I ask is that my Encore will not shoot nearly as accurate with a shiny clean bore vs. a fouled bore. Before I hunt I always fire a round into the ground at the house and then reload.
With a clean bore it might shoot within 3" of point of aim at 100. With a fouled bore it will shoot within an 1 to 1.25 of impact.


----------



## craddock

In all my expeince every muzzleloader that I ever shot always shot better after the barrel was fouled except my encore and the pocedure that I have to follow is when sighting it in I have to clean it between every shot or I can't get it to group at all. If I don't clean between every shot it will group around 4" at a hundred. Even when hunting I will run a dry patch through it between shots if I have the time.


----------



## DANOAM

Mine like it dirty. All a clean bore does for me is make the gun easy to load. If I am shooting a lot I will clean the nipple out from time to time.


----------



## wigglesworth

indiansprings said:


> Do any of you blackpowder shooters find that your rifle shoots better with a fouled bore vs. a clean bore? The reason I ask is that my Encore will not shoot nearly as accurate with a shiny clean bore vs. a fouled bore. Before I hunt I always fire a round into the ground at the house and then reload.
> With a clean bore it might shoot within 3" of point of aim at 100. With a fouled bore it will shoot within an 1 to 1.25 of impact.



Mine absolutely needs a clean bore. The accuracy game is all about repeatability. Once the bore starts "fouling" the inside dimensions of the barrel will change, the amount of pressure you need to exert to seat the round to the same depth, the "chamber" volume changes among a whole host of other things. 1 wet patch, and 2 dry for me between shots, and yes that's even in the woods.


----------



## Turkeyslayer

wigglesworth said:


> 3" to 4" is way out of my tolerance. If a gun wont shoot 1" or less on a good rest, Im looking for a problem, or the gun is on its way out the door. I agree, powerbelts and pellets are far faster to load, but id rather know where my shot was going, rather than how fast I can load. Some people claim real good accuracy with pellets, but in my testing, my groups went from 1/2" to 1.5" at 100 yards, just by switching to pellets. Remember, accuracy is what puts meat in the freezer.....



I think a 3" group ( outside to outside of aim point) at 100 yards isnt that terrible. I havent missed very many deer and 90% of the deer I have killed have been double lung shots. It might just be the quality of the gun (cva) because they are cheap to buy, or my ammo combo. If I was shooting 150+ yards I would be more concerned. 





craddock said:


> I too have an encore and I have tried both the pellets and the loose powders. I found that using the loose powder and a 250 grain shockwave bullet that it was far more accurate. My groups stay around 1 inch at a hundred yards and I have taken several out to two hundred yards. If you don't hit what you aiming at then speed is no good. Using speed loaders really help the speed thing. I have found that few double rifles ever shoot accurate with both barrels.



I think maybe I am not being clear about my groupings. I have always concidered a 3" group was the distance from outside to outside of the farthest shots from aim point. If this is correct for measuring grouping 1" at 100 yards with a muzzle loader is phenomenal. Basically I figure if the shot is within a couple of inches in any direction of aim point, its a dead deer



DANOAM said:


> I don't remember hearing anything negative about Traditions but I have no experience with them. Some time ago I was told that CVA guns were of poor quality, but I know people who shoot them with no problems and good results. I have a couple T/C's, a Hawken and a Renegade, both in .50 cal. I built them from kits and they both shoot great.



My first CVA was an Eclipse with a 28" barrel and I think it had a bit better accuracy than my CVA Wolf with 24" barrel.



indiansprings said:


> Do any of you blackpowder shooters find that your rifle shoots better with a fouled bore vs. a clean bore? The reason I ask is that my Encore will not shoot nearly as accurate with a shiny clean bore vs. a fouled bore. Before I hunt I always fire a round into the ground at the house and then reload.
> With a clean bore it might shoot within 3" of point of aim at 100. With a fouled bore it will shoot within an 1 to 1.25 of impact.



Yep I always foul the bore before hunting as well.


----------



## ryan_marine

I have seen 1 double 50 in my life. And loved it. It was owned by a Marine in Albany Ga. That rifle shot as good as it looked. But it had 2 scopes on it. The way it was fires is top barrel, half cock, flip the barrels and go to full cock to fire. It was awsome on wild hogs and deer. 

Ray


----------

