# New Skidsteer! Tracks or Tires??



## Bowhunter01 (Mar 29, 2008)

Well, I've decided it's time to trade in the S150 and step up to a bigger machine. I've been using a T300 Bobcat this past week, and man what a difference between the two. I don't think I want a full time track machine, might just use over the tire tracks, but thought I'd get some other opinions before I spend $$$$. 

I've been doing some residential tree work, building some gravel driveways, some landscaping, etc. Here lately, I've gotten some bigger requests. Need to build a right good-sized pond for one guy, and I've gotten some contracts building & maintaining forest access roads and fire lines. I used the T300 and my root grapple to scrape a fire line around a 20 acre clearcut, but I found it doesn't like stumps at all. Had me scared it was gonna throw a track, running over 12" diameter pine stumps. Felt like it was really hard on the machine to drive overtop of stumps, handled slash and brush fine though. Would over the tire type tracks do better in a situation like that? Been thinking about the pro-magnum tracks on a S250 or S300 machine. 

What would be the pros and cons of a tracked machine vs. removable tracks?


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## DFD34 (Mar 29, 2008)

*Skid Steers*

We have used both tired and tracked. We have liked both but tracks just seems to do to much damage to residential lawns. Our business does 95% residential tree work so they way we leave yards is very important to us. So, I am saying go with tires if you do alot of driving on lawns... DFD34


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## gink595 (Mar 29, 2008)

What a tough one! I had that same dilema when I was looking and ended up with a tires. Still not sure if that was a smart move. Like you said you can always out the track overs on if you want to even the weight out and better traction. But tracks sure rip the hell out of things, Hell just get the a300 and tell me how you like it!!


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## badtry (Mar 29, 2008)

I would prefer a tired machine, then buy a set of over the tire rubber tracks. They are a bit pricey but well worth the money. Your local bobcat dealer should sell them


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## tomtrees58 (Mar 29, 2008)

just rember that rudder tracks you get 1000 hrs that about it tom trees


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## ASD (Mar 30, 2008)

We use a t250 and a t300. Our t300 has about 1300 HR. on the tracks and we will change them at about 1600 HR. Our t250 had 670HR. when we put new tracks on it but the tracks went from like new to trashed in 80HR. on a rocky job. Our next bobcat will be an S330 with nu-air tires with metal over tracks for the rocky stuff and http://www.loegering.com/VTS.htm bolt on rubber tracks for low ground presher aps


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## Duffer (Mar 30, 2008)

*s600 Vermeer*

I have a S 600 and very happy with it, When it was time to Buy one I look at the damage the track Mode does and also the Wheel They both do damage but decided with the Wheel mode It;s a little wider but does the job.


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## Curbside (Mar 30, 2008)

I've got a T300 and a T320 as well as a S330. Track life has not been a problem as the T300 has over 1700 hours on it and still the same track and still has a lot of tread left as long as the track doesn't seperate. We use our machines on all surfaces including rock, pavement etc. Track life is totally dependent on the operator. If you push your way through large rock and let the track spin and spin you'll eat up the track in a hurry if you do it properly and stop and reposition just as your about to spin the track they will last a long time. As far as using a wheeled machine on someones turf I would not do it. Only takes a few passes and you now have ruts and if you turn them they will rip the turf. If you use a track machine you do not get the ruts you will get some torn grass if your doing 360s on the turf like a tire machine they will tear up the grass but 3 point turns will go far easier on the turf than a skider. If you do slow lazy turns you do not get turf damage and if you go straight in and back straight out you hardly notice the machine was in there.

The overall power and stability of the track machines are far superour to a wheeled machine even one with throw over steel tracks. We use our S330 mostly in the snow and for hauling material around on long runs expecially on parking lots and other hard packed areas.


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## chainsawaddict (Mar 30, 2008)

Tires dont work well in sand, tracks dont work well on snow, ice. another problem we had is if you drive though mud and dont get the tracks cleaned out and they freeze over night you will have to chip all the frozen stuff out if you want it to move before it thaws out on its own. we had to have tracks though because the tires just wouldnt get anything done in the soft sand out here in the sandhills of nebraska.


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## grandpatractor (Mar 30, 2008)

Here is some pics of what I use. 





The steel tracks cost me 2500 and I think I have around 500 Hours on them.
They are from Deere. I think they are the same as Grouser. 
It takes about a half hour to put them on and 5 minutes to take them off. 
I have used the track set up for digging ponds and heavy digging and also for logging firewood. If you look close you can see the "studs" that I tried this winter. I just put in some carriage bolts with lock nuts and it made a big difference on the ice and hard packed snow when we were doing firewood.
It just depends on what you want to get out of them. 
I don't think the rubber tracks would hold up well with oak branches getting ground up inside them. So they are not for me. But they may work well for you depending on how you take care of them.
Just my thoughts:monkey:


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## chainsawaddict (Mar 30, 2008)

grandpatractor said:


> Here is some pics of what I use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those look mean, I have heard they have problems slipping, is that true. (the tire inside the track)


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## grandpatractor (Mar 30, 2008)

chainsawaddict said:


> Those look mean, I have heard they have problems slipping, is that true. (the tire inside the track)



If the tracks are getting loose or if in alot of sugary snow they will slip under high torque loads. 
I actually just put in half of the "studs" that I could have. There is four holes in each of the pads.


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## Bowhunter01 (Mar 30, 2008)

Thanks for the info yall. Too many decisions! There's a local T190 for about $18 K with fairly low hours, but it isn't high flow. I'm wanting to be able to run a stump grinder and an ammbusher mower. I might have to go with a new machine from the local dealer, they've got pretty good financing right now. I'll have to price a new 250 and a 300. 

I'm kind of leaning towards a tire machine, with 15" float tires and a set of tracks for deep sand and logging sites. I might end up ordering one, to make sure it has what I want and not a bunch of extras. Wish bobcat had a build-your-own-machine type website, so you could see how much the different options cost. 

This is exciting. I love shopping for new toys.


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## Bowhunter01 (Mar 31, 2008)

I think I've decided on a new S250. Gonna order it decked out with the A91 package, high flow, and superfloats. Can't wait to try out the 2 speed rear. I'll probably get a set of steel tracks for forestry jobs and deep sand. I had them price a T190, it was 5K more. Ouch! 

I think for overall versatility, I'll end up happier with the bigger wheel machine and a set of steel tracks. I appreciate the input from everyone, its kind of a tough decision to make.


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## Craftybigdog (Mar 31, 2008)

I have the Bobcat A300 and I love it, with the turf tires its great.


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## skidsteer.ca (Jun 30, 2009)

chainsawaddict said:


> Those look mean, I have heard they have problems slipping, is that true. (the tire inside the track)



They do slip but its not really a problem. If your working in greasy mud run them on the tight side.
As for tearing up the gound i do find the Grouser or McLaren Bar style tracks much harder on turf then the one from Tracksplus. They have a larger shoe and don't punch into the turf near as much.
Ken


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## super3 (Jul 2, 2009)

gink595 said:


> But tracks sure rip the hell out of things,




Not trying to piss anyone off but,smoothness and not ripping the hell out of things is in the hands (and feet) of the operator. Same with a dozer,excavator or any other piece of equipment.


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## Curbside (Jul 3, 2009)

Super 3 

You are 100% correct on that.


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## skidsteer.ca (Jul 3, 2009)

super3 said:


> Not trying to piss anyone off but,smoothness and not ripping the hell out of things is in the hands (and feet) of the operator. Same with a dozer,excavator or any other piece of equipment.



I concur. If you insist on making tight turns you will have a hell of a mess no matter what. Gradual turns, or drive in back out and avoiding wheel or track slip are the key. I was just saying that the tracks with the smoother wider shoe make shallower impressions on the ground. Operator care is still required, a greenhorn in a skid can do more damage than good.
Ken


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## ropensaddle (Jul 3, 2009)

I just now got a skid steer it is a m600 bobcat I like it small gets in anywhere and seems to get done what I need. I had to put a new motor conversion vangaurd 35 hp but for a 70s model it kicks. Anyone ever use one, it is bob tach and I was wondering if new attachments fit?


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## gink595 (Jul 3, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> I just now got a skid steer it is a m600 bobcat I like it small gets in anywhere and seems to get done what I need. I had to put a new motor conversion vangaurd 35 hp but for a 70s model it kicks. Anyone ever use one, it is bob tach and I was wondering if new attachments fit?



I'm thinking the older stuff is different, If you want to take measurements I check and see what mine are I have a 2001, but I believe they are different until somewhere in the late 80's early nintys. Most manufactures use the same quick attach now, I have ran many different brands of attachments.


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## gink595 (Jul 3, 2009)

super3 said:


> Not trying to piss anyone off but,smoothness and not ripping the hell out of things is in the hands (and feet) of the operator. Same with a dozer,excavator or any other piece of equipment.



Oh I see, quote me and then say your not trying to piss me off, LOL.

No I agree, you learn real fast when to go like hell and when to back way off and drive like your in a tractor. You can make a lot of extra work for yourselff real quick.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 3, 2009)

gink595 said:


> I'm thinking the older stuff is different, If you want to take measurements I check and see what mine are I have a 2001, but I believe they are different until somewhere in the late 80's early nintys. Most manufactures use the same quick attach now, I have ran many different brands of attachments.



That would be my luck it has the auxiliary kit lines plugged but there so was going to put a grapple of some sort on it. I may just use the bucket that is on it and build my own grapple if the attachments wont fit.


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## super3 (Jul 3, 2009)

skidsteer.ca said:


> I concur. If you insist on making tight turns you will have a hell of a mess no matter what. Gradual turns, or drive in back out and avoiding wheel or track slip are the key. I was just saying that the tracks with the smoother wider shoe make shallower impressions on the ground. Operator care is still required, a greenhorn in a skid can do more damage than good.
> Ken



That says it all,

We demoed one from every manufacturer when we were in the market for our first track machine,all but New Holland which were not available yet, there is a lot of differance in the 2 styles of tracks as far as how easy it was to tear up the ground or grass as well as differances in in opperation of 2 machines from the same manufacturer of larger or smaller size.
The style tracks on Cat or ASV were the ones everyone (on my crew) liked the best as well as the smoothness of pilot controls.The suspention was sweet too.We only tested models in 60,70 and 80 HP range. Visability out the back was a big concern also.


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## super3 (Jul 3, 2009)

gink595 said:


> Oh I see, quote me and then say your not trying to piss me off, LOL.
> 
> No I agree, you learn real fast when to go like hell and when to back way off and drive like your in a tractor. You can make a lot of extra work for yourselff real quick.




Sorry buddy:hmm3grin2orange:

A lot of times it just doesn't matter if things get all tore up. If it's all getting reshaped anyway,what's the diff.


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## redprospector (Jul 3, 2009)

super3 said:


> That says it all,
> 
> We demoed one from every manufacturer when we were in the market for our first track machine,all but New Holland which were not available yet, there is a lot of differance in the 2 styles of tracks as far as how easy it was to tear up the ground or grass as well as differances in in opperation of 2 machines from the same manufacturer of larger or smaller size.
> The style tracks on Cat or ASV were the ones everyone (on my crew) liked the best as well as the smoothness of pilot controls.The suspention was sweet too.We only tested models in 60,70 and 80 HP range. Visability out the back was a big concern also.



My old ASV 4810 is real hard to see out the back of, so I put a "back up camera" in it. The screen has a button for "mirror image" on it, so it's just like backing up a truck using the mirrors. 
My neck and shoulders feel a lot better since I installed this, and I'll never have another skidsteer without one.

Andy


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## gink595 (Jul 3, 2009)

redprospector said:


> My old ASV 4810 is real hard to see out the back of, so I put a "back up camera" in it. The screen has a button for "mirror image" on it, so it's just like backing up a truck using the mirrors.
> My neck and shoulders feel a lot better since I installed this, and I'll never have another skidsteer without one.
> 
> Andy



I've been looking at doing someting like that also, a buddy has them on his combine and grain wagon tractor so you can see all angles, works really slick. The Bobcats are terrible for rear visibility I was in a New Holland recently and was really impressed with the side and rear view it had, kinda made me jealous!!


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## gink595 (Jul 3, 2009)

super3 said:


> Sorry buddy:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> A lot of times it just doesn't matter if things get all tore up. If it's all getting reshaped anyway,what's the diff.



Yup for what I do it never matters how bad I tear it up, the only time I give a chat is when I'm doing something for someone in there grass area, but normally it's fence row clearing and moving logs.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 3, 2009)

*Ice*

One more consideration: ICE! Rubber tires or rubber tracks don't work on ICE! So, if you have to deal with ice get chains for your tires or steel tracks. Don't know which is better on ice, chains or tracks.

Here's mine with tires and 3/8 chains (on the back):
View attachment 102996


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## redprospector (Jul 4, 2009)

It's hard to beat chain's on ice, but anything that's good on ice will tear up pavement with a skidsteer.
I had a set of the chain type track's on my 863 first, and they weren't too bad on ice. But like most track's you didn't want to get sidehill. I replaced them with a set of real over the tire track's, but they had a real smooth, wide pad and were terrible on ice. I blew holes in the pad's and installed 3/8" bolt's in the holes, and then it was great on ice, but they reaked havoc on asphalt. 

Andy


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## skidsteer.ca (Jul 6, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> I just now got a skid steer it is a m600 bobcat I like it small gets in anywhere and seems to get done what I need. I had to put a new motor conversion vangaurd 35 hp but for a 70s model it kicks. Anyone ever use one, it is bob tach and I was wondering if new attachments fit?



http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=26410
There you go.
I think the quick attach is the same on all but the smallest bobcats , they had a style change up. But to my knowledge the bigger one bobcat pioneered and only the other manufacturers changed over to bobcats style.
ken


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## ropensaddle (Jul 6, 2009)

skidsteer.ca said:


> http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=26410
> There you go.
> I think the quick attach is the same on all but the smallest bobcats , they had a style change up. But to my knowledge the bigger one bobcat pioneered and only the other manufacturers changed over to bobcats style.
> ken



Thanks I thought they may fit I have got to build up my pins with weld and grind them they are wore out and the bucket comes loose when back dragging sometimes. I shot some paint on it and have been using it some but got to get a grapple. It has the auxiliary package lines capped I was wondering if I need a control valve or if the foot pedal would work the grapple?
I will likely make the grapple as the price for them is taller than the trees I trim.


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## skidsteer.ca (Jul 6, 2009)

Trace the aux hyd hoses back they are either hooked to "the" valve or hanging in the wind.
No idea how bobcat did the aux hyd back then. But you could ask at the skidsteer forum. lots of 600 series owner there.
Ken


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## redprospector (Jul 6, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Thanks I thought they may fit I have got to build up my pins with weld and grind them they are wore out and the bucket comes loose when back dragging sometimes. I shot some paint on it and have been using it some but got to get a grapple. It has the auxiliary package lines capped I was wondering if I need a control valve or if the foot pedal would work the grapple?
> I will likely make the grapple as the price for them is taller than the trees I trim.



I had a 600, & a 610 back in the day. If there is a 3rd (center) pedel then you should have an auxillary valve. You'll still need to trace the lines to make sure they're hooked up. I can't picture it having the lines, and not the valve. Unless someone took it out.

Andy


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## ropensaddle (Jul 6, 2009)

redprospector said:


> I had a 600, & a 610 back in the day. If there is a 3rd (center) pedel then you should have an auxillary valve. You'll still need to trace the lines to make sure they're hooked up. I can't picture it having the lines, and not the valve. Unless someone took it out.
> 
> Andy



The valve is there and hooked up so it should operate a double acting cylinder for a grapple thumb right? I just finisked making the variable speed work a few minutes ago and now it scoots lol! Also they are open center systems right?


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## skidsteer.ca (Jul 6, 2009)

Yes, open center.
I'm sure it is a double acting valve and would run a grapple cylinder.
ken


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