# Tree Felling Question



## RyanNJ (Jun 10, 2013)

Over the weekend i was felling some trees and a few i needed to fell opposite of the direction of the lean due to the house and other structures. I was able to use some tow straps and ratchets to get them to fall the correct way but if i encounter this in the future what is the best method to get them to fall in the desired direction. 

I will admit that i was not prepared since i did not have wedges but i will be ordering them, what size works the best?

also once the tree is on the ground is there a good method to chunking it so that the log does not pinch back down on the bar?

I am trying to learn from this experience and improve my tree abilities.


----------



## Mike-M (Jun 10, 2013)

I use ropes and truck(s) for that. Wedges will only counter the lean up to a few degrees.


----------



## RyanNJ (Jun 10, 2013)

Mike-M said:


> I use ropes and truck(s) for that. Wedges will only counter the lean up to a few degrees.



is there a good type of rope to use? i ended up using 50' of tow strap and 2 10k ratchets to pull it over the direction that i wanted it to fall


----------



## RandyMac (Jun 10, 2013)

Mike-M said:


> I use ropes and truck(s) for that. Wedges will only counter the lean up to a few degrees.



Bull####!


----------



## Limbrat (Jun 11, 2013)

I will admit that i was not prepared since i did not have wedges but i will be ordering them, what size works the best?

also once the tree is on the ground is there a good method to chunking it so that the log does not pinch back down on the bar?
[/QUOTE]

Those same wedges will keep your bar from pinching on felled wood.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Jun 11, 2013)

If you have to use a truck to rip it over, then your doing it wrong. If you have to use wedges to make it go, your doing it wrong. If you have to use those things to lay something over, then you shouldn't be doing it. Proper notching, reading the wood and understanding what you are looking at is key. Go watch a pro, see how he does it, as every tree is different. They are all conditional. Read up on holding wood. A regular hand line is fine, you shouldn't need anything bigger. If you do it right, you can cut your notch and your back cut all the way to 10%, the tree should stay, unless it is a big leaner or has a huge amount of weight to one side, but if it is close to balanced, it will stay. If it starts to go before you get there, stay there and finish the cut. Lots of guys bail at the first sign of movement, then they leave holding wood thick to one side and the tree turns to that side as its going. Bad things happen then if you don't commit. If ya do it right, then with a tag line, you should be able to pull it over (by hand) with ease. There is much more too it than a saw and a truck. It wouldn't hurt to go stay at a Holiday Inn Express either. I use sticks to keep the cut open when cutting up a log, I don't want to "wedge it" to keep it open, that puts unneeded tension on the wood as you cut it. Just find ya a stick that is the same size a the cut and shove it in, keeps the bar going thru with ease, keeps the cut open so the bar wont pinch and ya wont nick a chain if you have metal wedges. I never try and cut all the way thru a log on the ground, go about 80% then roll it. Keeps that chain clean and sharp.


----------



## Carburetorless (Jun 11, 2013)

We're still waiting for SherrillTree to start selling "Tree Felling Sticks".


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Jun 11, 2013)

sgreanbeans said:


> If you have to use a truck to rip it over, then your doing it wrong. If you have to use wedges to make it go, your doing it wrong. If you have to use those things to lay something over, then you shouldn't be doing it. Proper notching, reading the wood and understanding what you are looking at is key. Go watch a pro, see how he does it, as every tree is different. They are all conditional. Read up on holding wood. A regular hand line is fine, you shouldn't need anything bigger. If you do it right, you can cut your notch and your back cut all the way to 10%, the tree should stay, unless it is a big leaner or has a huge amount of weight to one side, but if it is close to balanced, it will stay. If it starts to go before you get there, stay there and finish the cut. Lots of guys bail at the first sign of movement, then they leave holding wood thick to one side and the tree turns to that side as its going. Bad things happen then if you don't commit. If ya do it right, then with a tag line, you should be able to pull it over (by hand) with ease. There is much more too it than a saw and a truck. It wouldn't hurt to go stay at a Holiday Inn Express either. I use sticks to keep the cut open when cutting up a log, I don't want to "wedge it" to keep it open, that puts unneeded tension on the wood as you cut it. Just find ya a stick that is the same size a the cut and shove it in, keeps the bar going thru with ease, keeps the cut open so the bar wont pinch and ya wont nick a chain if you have metal wedges. I never try and cut all the way thru a log on the ground, go about 80% then roll it. Keeps that chain clean and sharp.



Nothing wrong with wedges, or using a truck for that matter. Whatever method is used, the goal is the same: to change the balance of the tree to allow gravity to work for you rather than against you. The most important thing to learn is what exactly is happening at the cut. Aiming your notch, matching your cuts, and understanding how the hinge functions is key to felling accurately and safely.

Understanding that all wood is either in a state of compression or tension will help you both with felling ajd bucking and limbing. Just remember that a lot of times a tree is at its most dangerous once it's on the ground. Limbs are under tension, the trunk can roll if the wrong limb is cut, etc. There is always a temptation to uust wade in and start whacking away at it. Read the tree, take your time, and keep your footing clear! I don't know how many times I've seen a noobie stumbling and tripping around, trying to limb the whole tree at once. Cut a few, clear a few.
Good luck and stay safe, Jeff


----------



## RyanNJ (Jun 11, 2013)

the tree was top heavy in the direction opposite direction of the intended fall direction


----------



## Limbrat (Jun 12, 2013)

RyanNJ said:


> the tree was top heavy in the direction opposite direction of the intended fall direction



You got my head spinning on that one!


----------



## woodchuck357 (Jun 12, 2013)

*Seems a clear description to me*



RyanNJ said:


> the tree was top heavy in the direction opposite direction of the intended fall direction



Depending on the size and kind of the tree and the amount of lean, I use a rope or cable. Often ran thru a snatch block fixed to an anchor point to keep the pulling vehicle on the ground. Rope is usually one inch nylon, cable may be as small as 3/8 or as large as 3/4 but most often 1/2 inch.

On little stuff hand pulling may work and sometimes a come-a-long will provide enough pull. Always use a heavier pull vehicle than you need. 

An open notch(90 degrees) is needed with extreme leaners to keep the tree in control all the way down. Check this out backleaners - YouTube


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Jun 12, 2013)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is pull height, or how high the rope is set. 2/3 of tree height is what I consider bare minimum, and higher is better, depending on the situation. Is the tree alive or dead? What species? How much lean? How big? It's an equation with about twenty variables. I have pulled over trees guys said couldn't be done, but that was the end result of thousands of drops. It's kind of one of those things that there is no substitute for experience. Knowing what you can and can't do is unfortunately sometimes a painful process.


----------



## woodchuck357 (Jun 12, 2013)

Higher is better, if the tie in point is strong enough to hold the weight of the tree. Communication with puller is also necessary, I like hands free two way ear muff type radios. Some times puller is out of sight of cutter.


----------



## ariley (Jun 12, 2013)

If you want to learn more about tree falling, you should pick up the bible..."PROFESSIONAL TIMBER FALLING A Procedural Approach" by D. Douglas Dent.


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Jun 12, 2013)

Callin that spam, not that it isn't a good book.


----------



## B Harrison (Jun 12, 2013)

I am so surprised at how gentle this is, op didn't have the right equipment and doesn't know where to just go pick it up. He didn't know to drop a 5" wedge into a cut to keep it from binding, and also was using this lack of experience to cut trees near a house. And no one had torn him one? You guys are getting soft.


OP good luck and to answer your question a couple 5" wedges and a double taper 10" will be a good starting point, put a 5 in your back pocket and keep it there when cutting, you might need it at any time and then its there. A 2-5 pound hammer or ax is what you will drive them with when using as felling wedges or just to prevent a back lean. 

I am no pro at felling and I can work out almost a 10% lean off vertical with wedges on a well balanced tree.
To clarify that would be a 81 degree tree, I still would have a rope in the tree and some kind of assisted pulling device, never just a truck maybe a come along or block......you get the point.

I suppose if a tree was leaning more than 5% or unbalanced (first issue to deal with) and close to a house (inside of 5') I might also think about taking it down in chunks from the top. Dropping a stem isn't as cool sounding as the whole tree, but when a home or important structure is involved its the safe way. Also taking a tree down from the top is easier clean up than just dropping that sucka and then sawing it up on the ground. The property owners yard doesn't suffer near as much damage.


----------



## RyanNJ (Jun 12, 2013)

B Harrison said:


> I am so surprised at how gentle this is, op didn't have the right equipment and doesn't know where to just go pick it up. He didn't know to drop a 5" wedge into a cut to keep it from binding, and also was using this lack of experience to cut trees near a house. And no one had torn him one? You guys are getting soft.
> 
> 
> OP good luck and to answer your question a couple 5" wedges and a double taper 10" will be a good starting point, put a 5 in your back pocket and keep it there when cutting, you might need it at any time and then its there. A 2-5 pound hammer or ax is what you will drive them with when using as felling wedges or just to prevent a back lean.
> ...



The tree was top heavy in the direction opposite of the fall direction. I am going to look into getting a snatch block. I know that i was unprepared and i want to use this as a learning experience


----------



## miko0618 (Jun 12, 2013)

I use plastic felling wedges for anything that has a saw in it. as for bucking the logs, I will cut from the top center and roll the bar til its just past vertical. basically cut one side. this will cut out the bottom. then go back to the top and cut down through. if you see the cut closing in any direction, put a wedge in. felling leaning trees by pulling them over is best with multiple guy lines. one at a side angle to keep the tree from falling sideways towards a structure should the hinge fail. and to say any tree can be felled in any direction without wedges or being pulled is bullsh#t! I've got some trees for this magical feller to fall.


----------



## StrataTree (Jun 12, 2013)

Hey RyanNJ

It must be your luck, these guys have gone easy on you. I've seen these piranhas just tear the meat from bone from some of these posters!!! Pay attention to what they're tellin ya! Do your homework! It ain't as easy as people think, that's for sure! You've done yourself a favor by posting your question here, you can learn a lot from the experience of others. We drop a lot of trees in tight situations and every time it doesn't go exactly as planned we talk about it right away, what happened?, why?, what can we take away from this...? Communication between cutter and rope/winch guy is crucial! We use hand signals and it helps when you are used to working with certain people...if cutter is out of sight we relay signals with a third guy and just slow down a bit. Blocks, arborist rigging ropes, winches, wedges, push sticks, throw bags, etc., all important tools in a day in the life of a tree guy...learn your knots!!!


----------



## woodchuck357 (Jun 13, 2013)

*It isn't that he is beeing handled gently*

it's that, for the most part, the responders-(so far)-want to help, not ridicule. Give 'em time those that do will show up!


----------



## BC WetCoast (Jun 13, 2013)

This is a link to a publication put out by WorkSafe BC on timber falling. Although it is designed for professional fallers working primarily in coniferous stands in a logging setting, the principles are very useful for newbies. 

In BC, all professionals falling trees greater than 8" in diameter (including arborists) must be tested and certified. This is the manual that the certification is based on. If a tree has a line in it, then the cutter doesn't have to be certified. There is a bit of a jurisdictional battle between logger/fallers and arborists.

http://www.worksafebc.com/publicati.../assets/pdf/bc_faller_training_standard_1.pdf
http://www.worksafebc.com/publicati.../assets/pdf/bc_faller_training_standard_2.pdf


----------



## woodchuck357 (Jun 13, 2013)

*Nope, you just pick up the nearest crush proof stick the precise size needed*



Carburetorless said:


> We're still waiting for SherrillTree to start selling "Tree Felling Sticks".


 and poke it in the exact spot needed to keep from exerting to much pressure on a trunk that just hit the ground. I suggest sticking a slide rule and micrometer in your hip pocket instead of a wedge.


----------



## StrataTree (Jun 13, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> it's that, for the most part, the responders-(so far)-want to help, not ridicule. Give 'em time those that do will show up!



Same dif:agree2:


----------



## ropensaddle (Jun 13, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> Higher is better, if the tie in point is strong enough to hold the weight of the tree. Communication with puller is also necessary, I like hands free two way ear muff type radios. Some times puller is out of sight of cutter.



Not in my case, 20 to 25 feet is optimal for my 20 ton pto bucket winch, the lower attachment makes taking up slack a breeze. However if pulling by hand or with a pickup etc. your correct. No one size fits all though, when it comes to dangerous felling "I dig my winch"!


----------



## woodchuck357 (Jun 14, 2013)

*Winch is great sometimes, but*

they are often to slow to keep a tree from going sideways when pulling a tree opposite the lean.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jun 14, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> they are often to slow to keep a tree from going sideways when pulling a tree opposite the lean.



Well not my pto its two speed gear but then 3 speed when u gas it! At 25 foot if your not familiar with braden tulsa gear winches you will uproot the tree if not careful :monkey:


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Jun 14, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> they are often to slow to keep a tree from going sideways when pulling a tree opposite the lean.



Tree goes sideways, you've already screwed up, and a fast winch won't save ya.


----------



## bustedup (Jun 14, 2013)

Falling leaners be they back, side, or head ya really can't learn by reading. You can get the techniques explained but that way diff from actually putting them into practice. That comes from experience and facing the situations. 


Doing a chainsaw course is well advised but it only a start and not a ticket to go an take on difficult sticks. 


Rigging and pulling trees there a wee bit more to it than just rope em up and pull. Other things gotta be taken into account......like face.....hinge......how it rigged etc etc etc.


Wrecking a stick down is an option certainly ......however doing so kinda requires ya to be able to climb and handle a saw whilst up there .......ya screw up at height then ya in trouble.


I ain't being rude or negative at all to anyone esp the OP but learn to use a saw and if ya can find a course and someone that can teach ya in person ......be patient tackle things that are not gonna cause ya grief at first. Crawl before ya walk and walk before ya run lol


----------



## rjb (Jun 14, 2013)

carry at least 3 weges as a minamal plastic not metal but the plastic with the aluminum but are nice if you do a lot of wedging for me size of wedge depends on tree di.


----------



## StrataTree (Jun 14, 2013)

Just a little surprised by all the photos posted on AS of guys not wearing PPE...no chaps, no lid, no nothin! 

Oh and once the tree hits the ground the first thing WE do is get the ropes out of the way!?!

:msp_mellow:

But, to each their own...


----------



## bustedup (Jun 14, 2013)

StrataTree said:


> Just a little surprised by all the photos posted on AS of guys not wearing PPE...no chaps, no lid, no nothin!
> 
> Oh and once the tree hits the ground the first thing we do is get the ropes out of the way!?!
> 
> :msp_mellow:



that cause folks don't think saws etc are dangerous lol......and looking cool seems to be more important too lol


----------



## StrataTree (Jun 14, 2013)

Busted up

You are a very busy poster aren't ya?:Eye:


----------



## bustedup (Jun 14, 2013)

and all is total rubbish lol but hey ho


----------



## StrataTree (Jun 14, 2013)

I think I look cooler than#+%£¥ in my climbing lid, muffs, and chaps!... I look like a pro, not some weekend warrior, runnin a saw for the first time! 

My best friends dad in fifth grade(many years ago) had a scar that ran from the top of his forehead down to the bottom of his neck. Saws will eff you up. In 9th grade a classmates dad died bucking logs on a wood pile, his partner went to the store to get lunch, was only gone fifteen minutes, when he got back, homie had already bled out! Lets have a little respect for these tools, shall we!?!?


----------



## StrataTree (Jun 14, 2013)

bustedup said:


> and all is total rubbish lol but hey ho



LOL:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## woodchuck357 (Jun 14, 2013)

*Often cutting has to come before rope can be pulled out*



StrataTree said:


> Just a little surprised by all the photos posted on AS of guys not wearing PPE...no chaps, no lid, no nothin!
> 
> Oh and once the tree hits the ground the first thing WE do is get the ropes out of the way!?!
> 
> ...



Injuries I have witnessed were all caused by stupidity and the PPE didn't help a bit! I don't wear any thing in a tree but ear plugs and eye protection. On the ground chaps and a lid, but the best protection you can have is between your ears.


----------



## StrataTree (Jun 14, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> Injuries I have witnessed were all caused by stupidity and the PPE didn't help a bit! I don't wear any thing in a tree but ear plugs and eye protection. On the ground chaps and a lid, but the best protection you can have is between your ears.



I don't exactly follow your logic... So no eye or ear pro while on the ground? And only eye and ear in the tree...

Maybe I misunderstood but, hey, at least your wearing chaps, which is more than I can say for a lot of posters here, props! 

Not really tryin to be the safety police, but.....

I learned recently that 30 people a year get chipped and its not the newbies... The age group most likely to be chipped is 40-55... Owners and veterans getting complacent! Keep your eyes open folks!


----------



## woodchuck357 (Jun 15, 2013)

*Yeah, I wear ear plugs and eye protection on the ground also. Socks, boots, shirt,*

pants, and I sometimes have a handkerchief in my hip pocket. Oh, black briefs!



StrataTree said:


> I don't exactly follow your logic... So no eye or ear pro while on the ground? And only eye and ear in the tree...
> 
> Maybe I misunderstood but, hey, at least your wearing chaps, which is more than I can say for a lot of posters here, props!
> 
> ...



I forgot some folks have to have stuff spelled out.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jun 15, 2013)

StrataTree said:


> Just a little surprised by all the photos posted on AS of guys not wearing PPE...no chaps, no lid, no nothin!
> 
> Oh and once the tree hits the ground the first thing WE do is get the ropes out of the way!?!
> 
> ...



Ahhh me thinks you might be thinking that hat on me head was a cowboy hat, lol it was I assure you anzi issue :monkey: However chaps yep not wearing them and the rope was pinned to the ground and out of my way as well as the cable that actually pulled the tree over.


----------



## ropensaddle (Jun 15, 2013)

StrataTree said:


> I think I look cooler than#+%£¥ in my climbing lid, muffs, and chaps!... I look like a pro, not some weekend warrior, runnin a saw for the first time!
> 
> My best friends dad in fifth grade(many years ago) had a scar that ran from the top of his forehead down to the bottom of his neck. Saws will eff you up. In 9th grade a classmates dad died bucking logs on a wood pile, his partner went to the store to get lunch, was only gone fifteen minutes, when he got back, homie had already bled out! Lets have a little respect for these tools, shall we!?!?



No amount of ppe can fix stupid. I started this business before chaps so training covered proper handling of a chainsaw and kickback prevention. I have a pair and if its cool out I usually wear them but if it's hot I don't. I however have witnessed many ppe preaching dip ####s over the years that would need chaps if they used a dull pocket knife cleaning their finger nails.


----------



## StrataTree (Jun 15, 2013)

ropensaddle said:


> No amount of ppe can fix stupid. I started this business before chaps so training covered proper handling of a chainsaw and kickback prevention. I have a pair and if its cool out I usually wear them but if it's hot I don't. I however have witnessed many ppe preaching dip ####s over the years that would need chaps if they used a dull pocket knife cleaning their finger nails.



:hmm3grin2orange: 

You got that right!!! 

I got nothin else to add!


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Jun 15, 2013)

Chaps and kevlar boots qnd all that are fine and dandy, but no substitute for proper saw skills. Every saw cut I've ever seen had one thing in common: they put a body part in the arc of the bar. I may be wearing a bulletproof vest, but I still don't want you to point a gun at me. Chaps may or may not prevent an injury, but not putting body parts where the saw can hit em always does.


----------



## forestryworks (Jun 15, 2013)

The undercut, that first level cut you make before the face is complete, sets the standard for under cutting a tree's center of gravity. Everything else tips, swings, or gives it room to fall.

Might be why they call it an undercut? :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Limbrat (Jun 16, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> Injuries I have witnessed were all caused by stupidity and the PPE didn't help a bit! I don't wear any thing in a tree but ear plugs and eye protection. On the ground chaps and a lid, but the best protection you can have is between your ears.




No doubt your best protection is inside your skull, but some skulls are thicker than others and sometimes stuff happens that even the best CANNOT foresee. That's what PPE is for!


----------



## Carburetorless (Jun 18, 2013)

I've had to pull a few trees over to get them to go where they needed to go. Placing the rope as high as possible(high as you can get it without risking breaking the top out) is a must. I use a bore cut, and let the pull guy put pressure on it, so it's started in the right direction before releasing the back strap. It's a good idea to have another saw ready to go, because they can sit down on your bar while you're making your bore cut. If that happens have the pull guy start pulling it on over while you release the back strap with the other saw.


----------



## Carburetorless (Jun 18, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> and poke it in the exact spot needed to keep from exerting to much pressure on a trunk that just hit the ground. I suggest sticking a slide rule and micrometer in your hip pocket instead of a wedge.



Let me make sure I've got this straight; First I use a feeler gauge to gauge width of the gap at the top of the log, then I use the micrometer to find a stick the right thickness to stop the gap from closing?

O.K. good to go.


----------



## JeffandTamara (Apr 20, 2014)

I hope the 3 pictures I attached make it.... I have 2 trees on the side of a small ditch I would like to take down for firewood. As can be seen from the pictures, the trees are hung up and leaning. 
Can someone walk me through their thought process when trying to do something like this. I won't be considering to attempt this until next fall, The Tic's will carry you off!!, So I have some time.

I have a small backhoe that I can use to assist.


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Apr 22, 2014)

Bring them both down towards the camera at the same time. Tie in as high as you are comfortable on the upright tree. Face cut both towards the camera. Back cut the upright tree first. Back cut the leaning tree and pull with the tractor.


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Apr 22, 2014)

You can aim them left if the tops look like they will slide (the leaning tree will help push them both down). If the tops look like they will not slide aim them slightly right so they will fall without the tops sliding.


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Apr 22, 2014)

If the leaning tree is really brittle you might save the upright tree for last. leave some extra holding wood so they don't fall on you.


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Apr 22, 2014)

Make sure both face cuts are level with the ground so they don't pull against each other on the way to the ground.


----------



## woodchuck357 (Apr 23, 2014)

Put a rope high in the leaners, cut chunks off the bottom until they are near vertical then pull them over away from the trees they are leaning against. When cutting chunks off make the first cut from the top and finish from the bottom to reduce the chance of binding the bar.
You might try two ropes, one to have a helper use to hold the top of the leaner tight against the support tree as you are cutting chunks off so as to keep the tree you are cutting on from coming loose before you are ready to pull it over.


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Apr 23, 2014)

If you have a backhoe just push them over.


----------



## Saddle Mander (Apr 30, 2014)

Where in NJ are you?


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (May 1, 2014)

If you try woodchucks method watch Daniel Murphy's plunge cut. Search "Daniel Murphy big ash leaner". I don't have the guts to try it on something that big.


----------



## DangerTree (May 27, 2014)

sgreanbeans said:


> If you have to use a truck to rip it over, then your doing it wrong. If you have to use wedges to make it go, your doing it wrong. If you have to use those things to lay something over, then you shouldn't be doing it. Proper notching, reading the wood and understanding what you are looking at is key. Go watch a pro, see how he does it, as every tree is different. They are all conditional. Read up on holding wood. A regular hand line is fine, you shouldn't need anything bigger. If you do it right, you can cut your notch and your back cut all the way to 10%, the tree should stay, unless it is a big leaner or has a huge amount of weight to one side, but if it is close to balanced, it will stay. If it starts to go before you get there, stay there and finish the cut. Lots of guys bail at the first sign of movement, then they leave holding wood thick to one side and the tree turns to that side as its going. Bad things happen then if you don't commit. If ya do it right, then with a tag line, you should be able to pull it over (by hand) with ease. There is much more too it than a saw and a truck. It wouldn't hurt to go stay at a Holiday Inn Express either. I use sticks to keep the cut open when cutting up a log, I don't want to "wedge it" to keep it open, that puts unneeded tension on the wood as you cut it. Just find ya a stick that is the same size a the cut and shove it in, keeps the bar going thru with ease, keeps the cut open so the bar wont pinch and ya wont nick a chain if you have metal wedges. I never try and cut all the way thru a log on the ground, go about 80% then roll it. Keeps that chain clean and sharp.



Really? I use my 5 ton bucket truck and a 7/8" Samson Bull rope to pull some mighty big trees down with ease! Are you telling me I'm doing it wrong? I've been doing it wrong successfully for years! I make a damn fine living doing it wrong. And sticks instead of wedges? Common man? Really? Are you trying to get someone killed? Dude don't listen to this guy he's only got two things right here and thats dont use metal wedges and roll the log over. Everything else is not acurate! Never stay beside a falling tree you will get pounded eventually. Never use a rope on a tree that can't lift the whole tree! A 7/8" bull rope will have a rated working load of 2000 lbs and a breaking strength of 19000 lbs! All gear in the chain including pulleys, turfers, fasteners, cables, bumpers on trucks should exceed the maximum amount of force that can be applied, should bad things happen. A hand line will not hold a tree of any real size. Also if you intend to use that hand line for climbing purposes after you have stretched the piss out of it DON'T, you may die! Do not pull a huge tree with a pickup truck unless you want to do a burnout and then get dragged down a cliff with the tree, seen it happen, and it was funny. Also NEVER pull a tree with a hand line/ climbing rope attached to a truck! Bad idea! If you do, chop the rope up immediately so no one uses it as a climbing rope. The " tree should stay thing" gets house crushed when gust of wind comes up! Never fall a sky bound tree without a rope attached and a wedge in the back cut if there are houses or other expensive items near by. And finally, if you have to ask how to do it, you probably should call an insured tree care professional. Sgreanbeans, no disrespect intended, but be careful what advice you give to people, some folks are out to save a buck and it can be tragic.


----------



## DangerTree (May 27, 2014)

woodchuck357 said:


> Higher is better, if the tie in point is strong enough to hold the weight of the tree. Communication with puller is also necessary, I like hands free two way ear muff type radios. Some times puller is out of sight of cutter.



Agreed but there is another part to that equation, I know you Know but others might not. If your rope angle is less than 45 degrees you lose advantage on your pull. It is better to be lower on the tree and have good pull angle than higher on the tree with bad angle. To counter lower rope heights you must have slightly beefier hinge wood. Also, if you can go over a strong branch and secure the rope at the base of the tree you will have additional mechanical advantage. Inserting a truckers hitch and pulley in the string will provide another quick 2:1 advantage. One more important tidbit of info, the higher up you go, the more farther the rope must travel to move the tree the same distance. If i can pull a 100 foot tree roped at 10 feet from the ground 1 foot then the top will move 10 feet! if , however, I rope the tree at 50 feet and pull it 1 foot the top will only move 2 feet. So it can clearly be seen that using a static rope attached to a truck will require constant pulling roped at 50 feet or the force will stop being applied as the rope slacks. However, one could use a dynamic rope and get greater range. Problem is most large bull ropes are static. So, with that said if you plan to rope high, it might be a good idea to have greater rope angle and the ability to quickly take up slack. You will need to take up less slack roped closer to the ground. Just be careful not to rip the tree off the stump!


----------



## DangerTree (May 27, 2014)

Oh, just so you know I am a professional tree rigger, I dismantle trees for a living. It is and has been my sole source of income for the last 25 years, and before that I logged old growth cedar for the shake and timber markets. And in that time I have zero injuries and no property damage! None! I work on a contract basis throughout BC in residential areas. I also have a full time tree service in the interior of BC. I enjoy the removal of large urban trees and highly rotten ones. I do NOT do hedges! I don't do Hydro contracts either, they suck! way too monotonous pole sawing limbs away from power lines. Yuk! Just can't do it.
Like any job, you never stop learning but in this business it takes years to really start to get the hang of it. Even today there are still some trees that I walk away from, just not worth the risk. Not that they can't be done but more the reward is not worth the risk. I do this for money and risk costs money, lots of money! Three days from now we will be dismantling a 130' fir tree 36" at the butt that was hit by another large tree and now has a hard lean towards a million dollar log cabin. Access is poor, foot only, drop zone is tight and the root is badly damaged! In fact, a good strong wind over the next couple days might just beat us too it. It will need climbing, hanging the top and chunking down. Remove all material and collect big fat paycheck! So if any of you guys got the nads for that kinda work and need a job, I'm hiring. Experience is a must! will supply all gear and grub. Wages negotiable. No woosies need apply! Will hire hot looking branch babes though, good for business.


----------



## woodchuck357 (May 27, 2014)

.


DangerTree said:


> Agreed but there is another part to that equation, I know you Know but others might not. If your rope angle is less than 45 degrees you lose advantage on your pull. It is better to be lower on the tree and have good pull angle than higher on the tree with bad angle. To counter lower rope heights you must have slightly beefier hinge wood. Also,* if you can go over a strong branch and secure the rope at the base of the tree you will have additional mechanical advantage*. Inserting a truckers hitch and pulley in the string will provide another quick 2:1 advantage. One more important tidbit of info, the higher up you go, the more farther the rope must travel to move the tree the same distance. If i can pull a 100 foot tree roped at 10 feet from the ground 1 foot then the top will move 10 feet! if , however, I rope the tree at 50 feet and pull it 1 foot the top will only move 2 feet. So it can clearly be seen that using a static rope attached to a truck will require constant pulling roped at 50 feet or the force will stop being applied as the rope slacks. However, one could use a dynamic rope and get greater range. Problem is most large bull ropes are static. So, with that said if you plan to rope high, it might be a good idea to have greater rope angle and the ability to quickly take up slack. You will need to take up less slack roped closer to the ground. Just be careful not to rip the tree off the stump!


I can't agree with advantage gained by going over a limb to the base of the tree. Sometimes it is easier but there is no mechanical advantage over being tied in at the same height.


----------



## Greener (May 28, 2014)

The key is the face cut. Make sure it is exactly perpendicular to the direction the bull/pulling line is going. Next the strength of the pulling line/cable is proportionate to the size of the tree/trunk, the canopy mass and the degree of back lean. The more of each, the heavier the rigging gear must be. But the key is, it does not take much to pull a tree to vertical or slight favor to the lay (front lean) when you pull gradually as you do the back cut. Keep a wedge in the back cut after the saw is in and the groundie gradually pulls as you cut. What most guys won't say is, right at the very beginning of when it starts to go, give one last quick tug. Timing and patience is key, especiallly with the back cut. What I have seen is that the cutter usually goes through it too quick, gets "ahead" of the puller and the bull line slacks up just before the tree really goes-this is what you do not want! Last, make sure you cut a fairly beefy hinge (depending on species), couple hinges higher on the back cut from the apex (where the face cut meets in the V). Personally, though, in this business, I'm a "100 percenter." If there is any question, climb it, rig it and chunk it. The homeower would much rather have a hold in the yard than the house, fence, etc.


----------

