# Echo cs-590 chain options



## Jameson (Nov 17, 2014)

I am a little confused with the link count numbers.

I have a stock 20" bar with the 70 link chain
Also a sugihara 16" hardnose

Both .050 gauge. 

How many links for the sugi bar?

Also, I am looking to switch out the spur to a rim sprocket, I can't locate the proper size or pin count. Please help.

Last thing, many 3/8 pitch saws have 72 dl 20" chains. Would it be beneficial for me to get a bar which can handle that... and will it fit with existing spur sprocket and/or the replacement rim sprocket? 

Thanks in advance for your help.
Jc


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## GrassGuerilla (Nov 17, 2014)

Ditch the timber wolf bar and slap a proper 72dl 3/8 bar on instead. You'll have an easier time finding chain off the shelf. And be able to share it with other saws. Jon 1212 has some bars that will work. The 20" Shindaiwa are ideal. He's a pleasure to deal with too.

I'd run the stock spur till its worn, then upgrade to the rim set up for a cs600. Member WSE is an Echo dealer that will ship to the lower 48.

I'm liking my cs590 more each time I use it.


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## Jameson (Nov 17, 2014)

I have run two tanks of fuel so far. I did remove the limiter caps and tuned it on its first run, tweaking as I went.

Muff modded it last night and sharpened the chain. This saw cuts insanely well.


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## Jameson (Nov 17, 2014)

For the $282 including tax brand new, I think I got a good value


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## GrassGuerilla (Nov 17, 2014)

Brand new saw for less than 20 year old Stihl 036 money. Tough to beat. Hope it serves you well. I've had great luck with my Echo equipment.


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## jughead500 (Nov 17, 2014)

How much did you open the muffler?


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## MrGiggles (Nov 17, 2014)

A 16" 3/8 should be around 56dl, but they can vary.

My local dealer often has to make a loop for the 25" on my 066.. He has Carlton chain by the roll and doesn't charge me any extra to do it.. You'll have some trouble getting Stihl chain for that bar, but many dealers buy Oregon/Carlton by the roll and won't have a problem spinning up a couple loops for you. It's a lot easier than buying a new bar, IMO.

You can swap the bar and keep your current sprocket. 72dl is a lot more common and will be easier to find in pre-made loops.


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## Jameson (Nov 17, 2014)

I drilled a hole opposite the existing tube, and cut out the section below the louvre. Then removed the back plate from the louvre, I plan on running it with no screen, as my other 2 cycle equipment


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## jughead500 (Nov 17, 2014)

Ok I'm planning on cutting the top out of my can before long.All I have right now is a 1/2" hole.it woke the saw up but I think a little more will still help more.


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## o8f150 (Nov 17, 2014)

on huskie a 16 inch takes 60 drivers,,,, this is just my opinion but I personally think 20" bar is a bit much for that saw,, its pushing the limits,,, I run a 20 on my ported 372xp


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## GrassGuerilla (Nov 17, 2014)

The OEM bar at 70 drivers is both odd and apparently prone to failure. The nose sprocket being a weak point. So buying a handful of 70 dl chains is probably not a great idea anyway. More standard bars will be either 68dl 18" or 72dl 20". The Sugi is another odd duck, in that it may not be an "off the shelf chain" sort of deal. Either the 68dl or the 72 should be widely available. Take your a sugi to a local shop and see if you can walk out with a decent chain. Local availability is a worthwhile cinsideration.


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## Jameson (Nov 17, 2014)

What sort of bar do you suggest?

I was looking at the carlton speed tips. I would prefer a replaceable tip. However the woodland pro timbermax at half the price and A THIRD THE WEIGHT on a 20" bar is attractive as well. Would this reduced weight mess up the balance of the saw?

I want to go hardnose, but I don't have the need to. I like less stuff to break. 

That's why my f350 pickup has manual windows ☺

As far as 18" bars go, I already run an 18 and 16 on my cs-400, and a 14" on my cs-352. All with 91vxl chain. I bought the cs-590 for a job working on a 22" oak when my 400 just was taking too long. I really only need it for bigger stuff around 16-18 inches plus, and im rarely in a hurry. The little 40cc cs-400 cuts surprisingly well after I gutted the cat, drilled direct through the baffle and removed 60% of the louvre.

As for the muffler mod on the 590, there isnt much going on in there. Stock it is setup to move the air through some sort of baffle system (no cat) and out a 3/4" or so tube to the screen and louvre. I bypassed the stock system leaving it in place and removed the final "bend" in the system by taking off a plate under the louvre top. The flow will still deflect in the direction it would as stock, but at a much higher flow.


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## MrGiggles (Nov 18, 2014)

A sprocket tip is more efficient, and you'll rarely have issues with one cutting firewood. A hard nose excels in abrasive conditions (stump cutting, railroad ties, etc.)

20" is just fine on a 60cc saw... It could probably pull up to a 24" with a skip chain if you needed it to.. I'm sure you bought it for bigger wood so there's no sense throwing a tiny bar on it.. I'd run with a 72dl 20".. Not sure where you're located but that covers 90% of the timber here.


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## Jameson (Nov 22, 2014)

Update:

Saw running well.

However, the muffler mod has made the saw UNBEARABLE to work with UNLESS I wear ear plugs. It is honestly the loudest saw I have ever heard, AT IDLE. It is blatting and bleeting and popping. At full throttle in wood Im getting the sounds and occasional blurps im looking for, and it sounds really smooth. 

Trigger response and acceleration are insane, INSTANT. It has a little more torque it feels, I have broken it in with aboutfour tanks and a 22" oak. Two tanks after the muff mod.

My biggest complaint is how loud it is, without earplugs honestly you can't stand within 50 feet of it at idle without your ears hurting.

Now when you hit the gas, it instantly revs, I tuned it a little fat on the H and the Idle screw either creeps or when it gets nice and hot I need to open that a little to prevent the chain from moving at idle. Im assuming this is normal break in, or it is vibrating a little and turning itself. More power? I dunno, it certainly feels that way. This thing pulls with a full chisel and a fresh filing job, serious pullage. Im amazed at the throttle response. Either I NAILED the tune or? Maybe the electronics?

JC


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## RedFir Down (Nov 22, 2014)

I feel your pain about how the 590 sounds with the way you opened the muffler up... Really poppy at idle and extremely raspy at WOT in the cut. Plain obnoxious really!! 

I think the reason they sound so piercing doing it this way is because the angle and aligned of the added port in the muffler to the exhaust port on the cylinder is a "straight shot" and the muffler is not doing what its suppose to do, which is muffle the sound. (if that make sense) 

This is how you done yours right?




I have done several of these since and found that you have to cut out a large part of the tube to get the exhaust tone to mellow out.... It's still louder than stock but sounds good.
Here is how I open them up now. (sorry, the pictures not the best. This was just drilled out, I still needed to deburr and clean it before I put it back on)


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 22, 2014)

The 590 does have a nice pop to it with a good mm, but it's not really that bad, especially if you're use to running ported saws.[emoji6] 

The 590 with a mm will easily pull a 20" bar, even a 24" bar would be fine IMHO.


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## jughead500 (Nov 22, 2014)

Yeah I'm sure it will pull a 24" they do have enough torque.Semi Skip would probably help if it slows it down too much.I would say Green wood would be fine but seasoned hardwood would be a bit much.


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## Jameson (Nov 23, 2014)

Redfir, 

Yes, i did the mod in your top photo.

Maybe I should go farther as you show.


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## RedFir Down (Nov 23, 2014)

Jameson said:


> Maybe I should go farther as you show.


I would definitely recommend pulling the muffler back off and removing tube. It will sure make the exhaust tone easier on the ears.
The first one I opened up with just removing the material in front of the tube sure was annoying... to the point I did like to run it. It was so raspy at WOT in the cut it was hard to hear when it was 4-stroking.


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## Jameson (Nov 24, 2014)

Looks like Im going to have to go that route red fir. Im going to take before and after pics.

Anyone else looking for a larger or thicker rubber gasket for the BAR OIL CAP? Mine seems to want to let me screw it all the way down until It locks against the metal casing and it just seems like it is going to come loose sooner or later. Anyone else experience this? A minor complaint since it doesn't leak but I would like to feel more secure.

JC


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## Jameson (Nov 24, 2014)

I really appreciate the advice everyone. I would never have even thought of taking more out to fix the problem. 

The power on this cs-590, for someone who has only run 40cc class saws, can be scary at times. Of course, safety first with all power tools, especially saws. Ones with this much power make you even that much more careful and aware.

JC


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## Jameson (Nov 26, 2014)

RedFir Down said:


> I feel your pain about how the 590 sounds with the way you opened the muffler up... Really poppy at idle and extremely raspy at WOT in the cut. Plain obnoxious really!!
> 
> I think the reason they sound so piercing doing it this way is because the angle and aligned of the added port in the muffler to the exhaust port on the cylinder is a "straight shot" and the muffler is not doing what its suppose to do, which is muffle the sound. (if that make sense)
> 
> ...


Here is how far I went. Pretty extreme, hope the sound improves.


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## Chris-PA (Nov 26, 2014)

I always wear ear protection. My hearing isn't what it once was and is clearly getting worse - too much abuse when I was younger. I do what I can to take care of it.


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## cedarshark (Nov 26, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I always wear ear protection. My hearing isn't what it once was and is clearly getting worse - too much abuse when I was younger. I do what I can to take care of it.



I like my Timberwolf and it pulls a 20" fine, although the quality of the bar/chain is not good. If I need a 24", I get my 441 with a stock muffler. To me,tolerating those decibels to gain 4" of bar length just doesnt make sense. Most folks dont know what effect hearing loss has until its too late.


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## Jameson (Nov 26, 2014)

I wont use this 590 without earbplugs


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## GrassGuerilla (Nov 26, 2014)

Not to sound like danger dude, but its possible to make them so loud that pugs alone won't bring it down to a safe db level. Sometimes you need plugs and covers. Or an active system. Protect your hearing, only get one shot.


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## cedarshark (Nov 26, 2014)

Ear plugs are cheaper than TV Ears....but TV Ears save your marriage.


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## Jameson (Dec 2, 2014)




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## Jameson (Dec 2, 2014)

Her are a few before and afters, if you are telling me this vast opening up with the modified louvre or deflector (I took out the first plate not the top plate so it still appears stock from outside - no screen) is going to quiet it down, then I really appreciate the help. I am probably running it tomorrow. It was loud before the first mod but not unbearable without plugs.

On the flip side my friends stock husqvarna 460 rancher is quite subdued in sound compared to this cs-590 (before the mod I mean) - both at around 60cc's too?

Having my hands on his rancher for a few weeks, I would certainly choose the echo just based on feel and construction alone given the two. I haven't cut with the rancher as I just began a cleaning and tuning of it and I don't want to burn it up being an idiot, I made a post asking for help adjusting the H screw or removing the limiters. Having them both apart most of the way, the echo seems built more to last. Though I do like the husqvarna filter, stock chain and bar better, and it seems to work without greasing the sealing parts.


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