# Why can you burn ash right away?



## ancy (Dec 7, 2010)

Everything I read says NO GREEN WOOD, so why ash?


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## timberwolf (Dec 7, 2010)

If I had to burn green wood, ash would be one of my first choices due to it's lower moisture content when green.


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## TreePointer (Dec 7, 2010)

You cant.

What I mean is you can't if you want a good burn to get the most heat out of it and safe burn. Yes, green (recently living) ash will burn, but it will hiss and steam a lot. I love ash firewood, but I'd rather burn any seasoned wood over unseasoned ash.


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## jags (Dec 7, 2010)

A living ash tree is one of the lowest moisture content trees in N-America. It would be somewhat typical that a fresh drop would yield about 30-35% MC in a live one, compared to say ~70-80% in a white oak. It will burn, just not very well.

Season all wood for a year (c/s/s)
Season white Oak for two - and you won't have to question the quality of your firewood.


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## wdchuck (Dec 7, 2010)

Here's a chart to add to your info library: 


http://www.mb-soft.com/juca/print/firewood.html


.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 7, 2010)

I have odwf I have burnt green and many times at least put a big green round in the mix to have longer burn time. I know dry wood burns faster and cleaner but burn is burn no?


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## jags (Dec 7, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> ...but burn is burn no?



Well...no. Green (or high moisture wood) consumes much of the heat content stored in that wood to boil the moister out. Wood can't burn until the moister is gone (hence your longer burn). I have seen figures that can go as high as 10-15% of a logs energy can be wasted trying to boil moisture out, just so it can burn.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 7, 2010)

jags said:


> Well...no. Green (or high moisture wood) consumes much of the heat content stored in that wood to boil the moister out. Wood can't burn until the moister is gone (hence your longer burn). I have seen figures that can go as high as 10-15% of a logs energy can be wasted trying to boil moisture out, just so it can burn.



Yeah I know it burns hotter too but many times I burn all green so it goes from mounring til dark when I arrive home and use hackbury,or really whatever fits in the furnace!


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## jags (Dec 7, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Yeah I know it burns hotter too but many times I burn all green so it goes from mounring til dark when I arrive home and use hackbury,or really whatever fits in the furnace!



Well, the one upside to green wood is longevity of a fire. The downsides are many. Creosote producing, smoke emitting, Higher pollution do to incomplete combustion, energy consuming to boil off excess moisture, in epa stoves- it is darn near impossible to burn, glass will blacken in short order (for those able to view the fire). I'm sure I missed a couple.

I ain't telling anybody how to burn, but there are a few on the list above that could sure tick off the neighbor if you have one. Green wood and garbage are the two biggest enemies of the OWB. These two items, along with improper burning techniques have caused more negative press for wood burners than everything else combined. Green wood and garbage is probably the sole responsible components of many of the OWB restrictions that are becoming popular around the country. Just sayin'


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## ropensaddle (Dec 7, 2010)

jags said:


> Well, the one upside to green wood is longevity of a fire. The downsides are many. Creosote producing, smoke emitting, Higher pollution do to incomplete combustion, energy consuming to boil off excess moisture, in epa stoves- it is darn near impossible to burn, glass will blacken in short order (for those able to view the fire). I'm sure I missed a couple.
> 
> I ain't telling anybody how to burn, but there are a few on the list above that could sure tick off the neighbor if you have one. Green wood and garbage are the two biggest enemies of the OWB. These two items, along with improper burning techniques have caused more negative press for wood burners than everything else combined. Green wood and garbage is probably the sole responsible components of many of the OWB restrictions that are becoming popular around the country. Just sayin'



I hear ya bro, the squirrels chatter about it all the time too.


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## deerlakejens (Dec 7, 2010)

If you burn green wood for a longer fire but it burns at a lower temperature, I don't see where the advantage is, especially with an owb. I guess if you need the coals to restart in the morning or something, it might make sense but not from a heating point of view.


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## Cerran (Dec 7, 2010)

Green ash in chunks with a proper setup makes great homemade charcoal.


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## banshee67 (Dec 7, 2010)

you can burn ANY wood right away, green and sopping wet, ever seen a forest fire? 

is it ideal? god no..

i mentioned i had some white ash that has been split for 5-6 months now, still sizzles like hell

one member added the only advantage green ash has over other green woods is that it wont leave as much creosote

the old riddle about cutting down and ash tree and burning it the same day is BS.. unless you want a bunch of sizzling logs boiling water out the ends and hardly burning..


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## Constrictor (Dec 7, 2010)

Because we live in America you can burn green ash. while burning green ashis a little better than burning other green wood, it is not advisable if you can help it,


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## olyman (Dec 7, 2010)

Cerran said:


> Green ash in chunks with a proper setup makes great homemade charcoal.



so youngun--tell us how to do it--serious--


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## jimbojango (Dec 7, 2010)

I disagree about not being able to burn it the same day as cutting it. Do it about once a week. Go out monday afternoon and cut about half a pickup load of wood and throw most of it out back for the splitter "sometime" when i have time and burn about 1/3 of it. Also throw in green hedge. Never seems to make much difference and i have more than ample heat. I've burned seasoned wood and had more problems getting 2 year old walnut and oak to light than ash that was cut yesterday. 

You guys might be right on less heat, no idea, but I have an endless supply of wood and GRASS grows where I live AND I farm so I feed the people whining about pollution even though my grass carbon offsets it.


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## treeguyinoh (Dec 7, 2010)

For charcoal making you need a steel drum with a removable lid. Basically, you load the drum with scrap wood while sealing out any new air, and heat the heck out of it. My setup uses a drum with a piece of 2" steel pipe that srews into the bung and goes across the top of the barrell and all the way down the length of it. I built a cradle so that it lays flat on its side with room for a fire underneath, along with the length of pipe from the vent(bung). The vent should have a cap at the end and a series of holes drilled along it so that escaping gasses from the vent will be directed up and to the sides of the barrell.light a fire under the barrell, and let her get hot. The gasses that escape from the holes in the vent will ignite, keeping the fire on the drum. After a few hours of heat, the escaping gas should no longer burn. Stop adding wood at this point, and wait til morning. Open her up and you have a pile of charcoal.
Dennis


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## 04ultra (Dec 7, 2010)

Ash being unloaded today...........Damn he's putting it on the wrong pile ..........Suppost to keep the Ash by it self...LOL





Should make nice firewood..
.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 7, 2010)

04ultra said:


> Ash being unloaded today...........Damn he's putting it on the wrong pile ..........Suppost to keep the Ash by it self...LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dang is dat da ultra stove pipe in back ground wow


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## 04ultra (Dec 7, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Dang is dat da ultra stove pipe in back ground wow



Yup..........................20x70...................LOL






.


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## Dalmatian90 (Dec 7, 2010)

> Well...no. Green (or high moisture wood) consumes much of the heat content stored in that wood to boil the moister out. Wood can't burn until the moister is gone (hence your longer burn). I have seen figures that can go as high as 10-15% of a logs energy can be wasted trying to boil moisture out,



The 10% IMHO is not significant.

That to burn it "best" you need an old fashion Boxwood or other stove from the era before the mid-70s airtight stoves is significant. They run about 30% efficiency. Good news is they burn just about anything, shoving enough heat up the chimney that the water and smoke doesn't have much time to condense to form creosote.

Fisher and copy cat airtight stoves from the 70s run about 60% efficiency. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that there was a surge in chimney fires that corresponded with the heyday of the airtights.

The modern EPA stoves demand seasoned firewood, but burn at 80% efficiency. Secondary burns reduce the amount of fuel that was sent up the chimney to potentially form creosote. Not so many chimney fires anymore.

Being able to go from a Boxwood burning green at 30% efficiency to an EPA at 80% is a gain of 50% BTUs from the same (but seasoned) wood. The 10% lost to boiling off water isn't that much compared to the 40-50% you can gain if you're able to use an EPA stove.

Dry wood in a Boxwood will heat faster because it releases more BTUs/hour. Wet wood may only cost you 10% of the BTUs, but I'm guesstimating based on my boxwood it takes 25 -- 30% longer to deliver the BTUs it does due to the longer time it takes to burn.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

Dalmatian90 said:


> The 10% IMHO is not significant.
> 
> That to burn it "best" you need an old fashion Boxwood or other stove from the era before the mid-70s airtight stoves is significant. They run about 30% efficiency. Good news is they burn just about anything, shoving enough heat up the chimney that the water and smoke doesn't have much time to condense to form creosote.
> 
> ...



My old basement furnace I converted to odwf burn anything pine,gum does not matter want it to get hot open the ash door lol. Flue I have tied to a piece of scrap top rail concreted in I was burning some pine knot to get hot when we dipped down in the single digits and open the door wide open flames shot out the flue ten foot as the build up burnt but tin roof who cares it ain't goin no where!


I have been needing to build a metal shed around it to keep the cold off the plenum then I could damper it all the way back and the trailer house stay nice and comfy!


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## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

I have a question anyone using one of those eden pures for back up?


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## jags (Dec 8, 2010)

A. I never said it wouldn't burn fresh off the stump
B. If 10% increase in efficiency is insignificant to you - that is a personal decision. Me - I like to get the most out of my hard work.
C. If chimney fires are your thing - go for it - The thought of it scares the hell out of ME.

This is a free country - you can burn whatever ya want in an old OWB - then wonder why somebody is trying to shut you down. You can burn green wood, smoldering along in an old boxwood and have chimney fires, your call. I just don't seem to sign up to the Russian Roulette game. And I SURE as heck wouldn't want a newby stumbling on this site thinking that such practice is the "best" way. Just one dudes opinion.

I am not slamming anyones actions - again, free country, but I do have a mantra that I go by, and that is to try and do everything that I do - better.


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## jimbojango (Dec 8, 2010)

I guess my view is somewhat skewed because my chimney is only about 9 feet of 8" straight up pipe and i can get on my roof and clean it in about 5 minutes. Never have got much out of it but once last year i burned some green hedge and then tossed some seasoned on top (on purpose) and had flames about 5 feet out the top to burn the cresote out.

I can cut wood about anytime, close to home, and split most by hand just for excersise so i guess if you're limited on time seasoning is probably the way to go. My viewpoint is that i have acres of tree's covering my pasture's and the edges of my fields and i'd rather get 1/10th the heat out of them than just bonfire wood. Might not be the best practice, but i DO live in the country and my closest neighbor is half a mile or a little better away and like i said before my pasture grass will carbon offset me.


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## goof008 (Dec 8, 2010)

The ash around here (Ground zero for the EAB) is good to burn as soon as it's cut...it's been dead for up to 3 years. You won't find a live ash anywhere near here.

It's always best to let it season...but if you run out of wood in Feb. and need something right away to last the season, ash is the best one to burn green.


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## Bricks (Dec 8, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> My viewpoint is that i have acres of tree's covering my pasture's and the edges of my fields and i'd rather get 1/10th the heat out of them than just bonfire wood. Might not be the best practice, but i DO live in the country and my closest neighbor is half a mile or a little better away and like i said before my pasture grass will carbon offset me.



We farm and our neighbor which is 1/4 mile away put in a OWB, evidently he burns green wood some days the inside of our house smells like smoke from his stove. Can`t hardly stand to go outside especially on some cold days when the air starts inversion. We have a gasiffication boiler and our neighbors that walk by every morning never even new we had switched to wood heat until one day he asked me what the chimney on the milk house was for..

To me your idea is bogus burning green wood in the country dosen`t effect anyone else. Maybe not in your instance but are you absolutely sure.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

Bricks said:


> We farm and our neighbor which is 1/4 mile away put in a OWB, evidently he burns green wood some days the inside of our house smells like smoke from his stove. Can`t hardly stand to go outside especially on some cold days when the air starts inversion. We have a gasiffication boiler and our neighbors that walk by every morning never even new we had switched to wood heat until one day he asked me what the chimney on the milk house was for..
> 
> To me your idea is bogus burning green wood in the country dosen`t effect anyone else. Maybe not in your instance but are you absolutely sure.



First off I think if your stack goes through roof green would be a little more of an issue. I have asked my neighbors they said they hoped thiers did not cause me fits lol. You must understand country people don't call enforcement for your dog crapping in their yard. They ain't out to sue you everytime something happens different breed than most city slickers. I now burn mostly cured wood but will burn green from time to time to save my seasoned. Now the one saying he wants all he can get outta his wood , the green I am burning is usually rounds or hackbury split just small enough to get into the door 11 by 11 inch minimal splittage. I am merely getting rid of the lesser valued wood during less cold months.
I then start using knots and cookies that I also save including notches. I burn all my junk first I thought everyone did:monkey:

PS: my flue never goes though any roof but it goes 20 foot up for draft and that disperses smoke further into the air prolly settles in New Jersey:monkey:


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## rwbinbc (Dec 8, 2010)

last year i burnt green white oak, i thought i stove pipe would be a mess but it wasn't that bad. i have a century stove and 5' single wall and about 24' of thriple wall stainless i believe, and maybe a half a gallon of crap. I sold off alot of our wood last year so by jan. we was running short. but this year i have about 6 cords of wood thats been stacked since spring. plus we have alot of old tops out back and some standing dead. some of the tops are starting to get punky thou. after last year i will have no reason to burn green wood. i wish people would get there heads on right, they call me when there is three feet of snow crying that they need wood. get it earlier in the year. then they stop by and see the wood next to the house, well what about all that?, buy wood before the damn snow sets into deep. i know i ranting now gotta go seeya


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## jimbojango (Dec 8, 2010)

In kansas the wind hauls the smoke off. you'd never smell it from my neighbors cause i asked him. I just still can't see why you wouldn't want to burn green wood at times during the winter, lasts all night and leaves off a lot of heat.


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## jags (Dec 9, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> I just still can't see why you wouldn't want to burn green wood...



For all the reasons listed above - and more.

At this point there is probably very little that I can say to sway you. So I will digress. Burn on brother.

(just don't go complaining when your county goes after the garbage, oil, tire, green wood burning OWB's and bans them. It is already popular to do so in the Eastern states.)

For anybody that may think I have a chip on my shoulder for OWB's. I don't. I personally was looking into them when I went with a new stove, quite a few years ago. They do have their place. They do have some good features. Some could heat a barn, but they can also be abused. And thats where they get the bad rap.

I'm gonna tuck the soap box back under my desk now. This is not my normal type of post. I'm not big into conflict or speeches are arguing over the interweb. 

So, again...burn on brother.


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## jimbojango (Dec 9, 2010)

Eh, i live in Kansas, I've seen tires burned and almost no one in the little towns around her has OWB's. at most of they have a wood stove (much like i do) most aren't EPA stoves as there doesn't seem to be much incentive to get one if it won't burn green wood and older stoves are a dime a dozen. If i had the market to sell some seasoned wood i probably would do some, but it just can't be real profitable at $200 a cord because there are FEW straight tree's in our area. Not that many BIG tree's with tons of wood either. We cut down about 50 bur oaks out of a creek that a guy with a wood smoking business has bought for $250 a cord split and seasoned. The tree's are still laying in the bottom of the creek til next summer.


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## jags (Dec 9, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> as there doesn't seem to be much incentive to get one if it won't burn green wood



Incentives:
Will burn 1/3 less wood than a smoke dragon. (at least)
Very low particulate emissions compared to old stoves.(less pollution)
Cat stoves and larger non-cat stoves consistently report 8-12 hr burn times.
Less creosote in stack/ less cleaning/ safer (no chimney fires)
More neighbor friendly (for those that have neighbors or care)
If purchasing wood - less wood purchased.
If processing wood - less wood processed.
If hauling wood - less wood hauled.

Just a few random thoughts.
(for the record - I don't have neighbors)


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## ancy (Dec 9, 2010)

jags said:


> Incentives:
> Will burn 1/3 less wood than a smoke dragon. (at least)
> Very low particulate emissions compared to old stoves.(less pollution)
> Cat stoves and larger non-cat stoves consistently report 8-12 hr burn times.
> ...



I run a EPA stove and it likes and burns seasoned wood great. I do live in town and other than starting a fire and getting the stack hot there is no smoke and hardly a smell. Now my neighbor to the NW burns everything and there is nights that I can't go out side or hardly stand it. Then again he doesn't clean his pipe and I'm sure the late night chimney fire call is coming. (I'm on the FD and it is only his shop so no lives at stake). The reason I ask about green ash is that we have a ton around here and it is my first full year burning and I'm not sure on how much wood I'll go through. I am going this week end to cut and split some year old dead that was cut into 6' logs last year. I will stack it in its own pile and try pieces throughout this year to judge when it is ready for full burn. I did cut and split some green this summer and it seems to burn really well.


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## Cerran (Dec 9, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> In kansas the wind hauls the smoke off. you'd never smell it from my neighbors cause i asked him. I just still can't see why you wouldn't want to burn green wood at times during the winter, lasts all night and leaves off a lot of heat.



But a lot less heat than seasoned wood. Every pound of water you have to evaporate is around 1200-1300 lost BTU's that cannot be recovered.


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## Oldtimer (Dec 9, 2010)

I burn fresh cut white ash all the time. Doesn't burn as hot or fast as truly dry wood, but it burns just fine, and heats my place just fine.
The only reason NOT to burn it green IMO is because you have enough DRY wood so you don't have to.


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## jimbojango (Dec 9, 2010)

ok, if you're not out there for your health (which i mostly am) you're right about seasoned wood on ALL counts, no doubt. I'm out to get rid of tree's, i have a hurricane stove from the 70's and can't keep my house cool enough in the winter time even though i won't burn 2 cords total all winter. The heat loss is negligible because i have plenty of time to "waste" and get more than enough heat out of what i have more than enough time to cut. 

If i had an EPA stove i'd probably season wood so you could SEE the fire, but i don't care to see it anyway. Winter time is a time of not a lot happening in my world so i need something to occupy time and the wood really isn't worth much so its not worth stacking and splitting and seasoning and delivering.


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