# Anyone ever milled lap siding at home?



## Jesse snowden (Aug 8, 2016)

Hello again ya'll 

So I'm happy to share more details of the project as it comes about, but I wanted to see if anyone has tried it with a chainsaw mill! The goal is 6" wide lap siding that is 1/2 inch thick on one side and 1/8 inch on the other. Out of a combination of western hemlock, douglas fir and whatever spruce/pine/fir I can get. I'm in the seattle area and windfalls in winter time are what I'm hoping to use to get started.

Here is the plan:
1. Mill 6"thick slabs @ 10-12 feet
2. Cut slabs into 6×7 beams with a prazi beam cutter
3. Send beams through bandsaw for 1" boards
4. Stack and dry 1" until I have enough to do the job
5. Send the boards through the bandsaw again at an angle to give me the 1/8th-1/2 bevel

Any tips/suggestions/alterations/additions to the plan gentlemen?


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## Cease232 (Aug 8, 2016)

What kind of bandsaw do you have? Resawing is hard work and hard on a bandsaw especially if it's underpowered. 


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## ChoppyChoppy (Aug 8, 2016)

We make a fair amount, have a jig that goes on the Woodmizer.


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## Jesse snowden (Aug 8, 2016)

Cease232 said:


> What kind of bandsaw do you have? Resawing is hard work and hard on a bandsaw especially if it's underpowered.



Haven't bought it yet. I move into the house at the end of September and I'm waiting until then to buy a bandsaw. Thinking I'll get one from grizzly. They have a 17" with a 2hp motor for under 1,000 bucks.


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## Cease232 (Aug 8, 2016)

You might be better off hiring someone with a band mill. As with all projects like this it boils down to how much is your time worth. I've never seen it done on a shop bandsaw only a band mill but may well be feasible. I would probably saw the lumber in such a way that if you tilted the bandsaw table and sawed at your desired bevel you end up with two equal opposite pieces. Less waste. 


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## Blisters (Aug 8, 2016)

I was getting ready for just what u are talking about. When hot weather hit. I cut a few pieces of pine and planning to use on a privacy fence, with live edge exposed on the face. They are going to be vertical and not horizontal like on a house.

Waiting on Jesus


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## Jesse snowden (Aug 8, 2016)

Cease232 said:


> You might be better off hiring someone with a band mill. As with all projects like this it boils down to how much is your time worth. I've never seen it done on a shop bandsaw only a band mill but may well be feasible. I would probably saw the lumber in such a way that if you tilted the bandsaw table and sawed at your desired bevel you end up with two equal opposite pieces. Less waste.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup that was the plan! If I start with a 1"board, tilt the table and use a tall rip fence I should end up with roughly 1/2-5/8 on the big side and 1/8-1/4 on the other. Close enough  and it gives me an excuse with my lady to buy a 240 volt bandsaw.


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## Cease232 (Aug 8, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> Yup that was the plan! If I start with a 1"board, tilt the table and use a tall rip fence I should end up with roughly 1/2-5/8 on the big side and 1/8-1/4 on the other. Close enough  and it gives me an excuse with my lady to buy a 240 volt bandsaw.



Yes!! That's how I get all my new tools. "Honey of you want $xxx piece of furniture in gonna need $xxxx piece of equipment to make it happen." Works every time. . . . Well sometimes. . . . Ok, almost never [emoji854]


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## kjudd (Aug 8, 2016)

Could just shim the chain saw mill where it touches the wood to cut on an angle? You could do it after you square the log up the the 6 inches wide. Then you could just slab off your siding. And if I'm think right you could just keep switching ends you started from to keep every other cut level.


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## kimosawboy (Aug 8, 2016)

There is no doubt that a bandsaw will work for making lap siding but like another said ..what is your time worth..
Your 10'-12'- 6"x7" are going to be heavy and a PIA to flop around.
You will need at least a 7' infeed and another at the other end of the same length.. Plus a place to sticker and stack your lumber when cut.. 
The jig should be fairly straight forward, just make sure its stout enough.
If your shop is not large enough you might want to set up your bandsaw outside for the max room.
Two people would really help to ease things..

I want to see pics when you are doing this..

G Vavra
PS; for me I would just get my neighborhood woodmizer guy to do it..


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## Cease232 (Aug 8, 2016)

I was thinking the same thing. Manhandling those beams on and off the bandsaw is gonna be real back breaking labor. Ideally you could set up industrial rollers as indeed and outfeed tables. The kind used for unloading trucks. They can sometimes be found on Craigslist for pretty cheap. 


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## stikine (Aug 8, 2016)




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## Jesse snowden (Aug 8, 2016)

That is a good point! I didn't really think about feeding the beams through the saw. Luckily the garage I have is 2 car long in line. So it's something like 35 feet long and 12 feet wide. So will definitely have to build benches at table height for both sides. Good suggestions.


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## Jesse snowden (Aug 8, 2016)

stikine said:


> View attachment 518476
> View attachment 518477



Right as I was typing how I thought milling the bevel with the CSM would be wasteful, boom, you prove me wrong. Do you think it's a better use of time to cut it in one go? Or better use of material using a bandsaw with a thinner kerf? If you had the choice which would you do?


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## stikine (Aug 8, 2016)

I did this some time ago (pre kids) when I had more time on my hands! I made a jig for the mill that you can see in the first picture, it's basically a piece of beveled siding with blocks screwed on to hold it between the mill rails. It actually works pretty slick and you can flip it around as you alternate passes down the cant. It doesn't show in these pictures but I rabbeted a grove on the thick side so I could overlap the siding and get a tight seal. It also gave me some adjustment range to compensate for slightly different board widths.

Definitely not very efficient because you produce as much sawdust as you do siding. I used it on a garden shed so I didn't need to make too much of it. I'll see if I can dig up some pictures of the siding installed. It's western redcedar.


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## stikine (Aug 8, 2016)

The bandsaw would certainly be more efficient from a material waste standpoint...I didn't have one available or the covered area to set one up. The large cants could get tough to manhandle through the bandsaw without a good infeed and outfeed set up.

Sorta depends on how much siding you need I guess.


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## Jesse snowden (Aug 8, 2016)

The house is a pretty basic square shape, built in the 40's. I'm estimating about 1,600 square feet of wall need to be covered. Rough number. And I think the usual ratio is if I have 6" wide boards it will have a 4" reveal. So add another 33% and I come up with over 2,000 square feet of siding to mill... probably more like 2,500 with waste and scraps. 

I'll probably be wishing I paid a guy with a bandsaw mill to come by once I'm done. But making something out of nothing is my absolute favorite thing to do. And siding/roofing a house for the cost of the tools is too good of an opportunity to pass up!


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## Cease232 (Aug 8, 2016)

If you have access to material definitely bypass the bandsaw. There are a lot more fulfilling things to make than siding BTW haha. 


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## Sawyer Rob (Aug 9, 2016)

I've made siding on my BSM too, I wouldn't even want to have to pay for enough gas and oil to CSM out that much siding, let alone waste that much wood using a CSM, with it's huge kerf...

As far as re-sawing it on a home band saw, I've seen it done, and I've also done plenty of re-sawing boards on my home band saw, to know it's a really slooow time consuming process to re-saw very much on a home BS...

SR


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## Cease232 (Aug 9, 2016)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I've made siding on my BSM too, I wouldn't even want to have to pay for enough gas and oil to CSM out that much siding, let alone waste that much wood using a CSM, with it's huge kerf...
> 
> As far as re-sawing it on a home band saw, I've seen it done, and I've also done plenty of re-sawing boards on my home band saw, to know it's a really slooow time consuming process to re-saw very much on a home BS...
> 
> SR



I'd have to say resawing is probably one of my least favorite tasks in the shop. 


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## IyaMan (Aug 9, 2016)

In Japan, lap siding is commonly done with no bevel. The boards are all equal thickness and a lap joint is cut into the top and bottom edge of each board. I think this is called shiplap. This allows for all the boards to lay flat on the wall with a tighter seal. The cuts can simply be done into the boards with a tablesaw.





Vertical runners are also put in to prevent warping.





They also burn the boards instead of using stain/chemicals to prevent bugs and rot. 





Then sanded or planed for nice results. Cedar works best for this. The process is called "yakisugi"


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## Jesse snowden (Aug 9, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> In Japan, lap siding is commonly done with no bevel. The boards are all equal thickness and a lap joint is cut into the top and bottom edge of each board. I think this is called shiplap. This allows for all the boards to lay flat on the wall with a tighter seal. The cuts can simply be done into the boards with a tablesaw.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have completely read my mind! I've spent the day looking at different ways to do the shou sugi ban finish. And was thinking ship lap siding would save me a pass through the band saw, lower the total amount of logs needed to mill, and also look really nice. There is a thread on here started by "John neeman tool"s carpenter building his home from scratch. He uses this method, but with board and batton style siding. I've found a few companies here in the USA that sell shou sugi ban/yakisugi siding in a variety of species, cypress, cedar, Douglas fir, yellow pine etc. Which makes me think the species doesn't matter too much. I'd finish it with linseed oil as he did if I went this route. So many options!!

In the photo above about the vertical runners, that is underneath the siding correct? I was planning on doing that no matter which style was used, but just wanted to clarify. Never seen it on the outside before  thanks for the info!


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## hseII (Aug 9, 2016)

The extension on this mill in the background has the Woodmizer table that is made for doing what you are talking about.

Surely there is someone in your area that also has this set up.

The time it takes to do this would justify hiring someone else to do it for me: and there is a LT40 Hyd under the shed here.


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## IyaMan (Aug 9, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> In the photo above about the vertical runners, that is underneath the siding correct?



Sorry, not quite sure what you mean there. The vertical runners are on the exterior, exposed to the outside.

Actually though, I think the runner photo shows full overlapping bevel siding (also done in Japan) with the runners. But in that case, the runners are notched to allow for the bevel (nice look, but time consuming and tricky). For the full overlap bevel with notched runner, it might be better seen in these photos.




















But again, this is pretty intricate and tough to do without full-scale machine production.

But I think you understood that I meant to do a non-bevel, and overlap with a shiplap on the edges, not a full overlap, therefore the runners don't need to be notched and the boards lay flat at the same thickness on the wall, like this:










As far as wood choice, for one thing, cedar is ridiculously plentiful in Japan which is probably the main reason they use it, but in my experience, it also allows for the burning much better than other forms of evergreen and pine (also, Japanese cedar is a bit different than US species). Cedar has less oil and the wide soft grain lets the scorching happen quick. I just use a small hand-held canister gas torch.




For some photos on the yakisugi (which translates as "burned cedar"), you can do an image search with this 焼き杉 or for the yakisugi siding, you can search with this 焼き杉 サイディング


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## Cease232 (Aug 9, 2016)

Those notched runners are pretty sweet. Looks super time consuming though. 


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## kimosawboy (Aug 10, 2016)

If you want to do "yakisugi" (not sure if thats the correct terminology) to bevel siding that your making yourself as well as adding the vertical notched runners.....you will take a looooong, looong time.. No if ands or butts...
I have done some smaller yakisugi projects to red cedar and its really time consuming to get a nice finish... Boards need to be planed/ or finished just a tad better than a bandsaw. Torch away getting a even burn over board, sand with s.s.wool or similar, possible burn more, Sswool again , apply oil finish not once or twice but three times at least for a nice sheen (if thats what your after)...Now do this again for your other 415 -12' boards...
Dont even get me started about vertical notched runners.......lol
Have at it!

G Vavra


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## Jesse snowden (Aug 10, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> Sorry, not quite sure what you mean there. The vertical runners are on the exterior, exposed to the outside.
> 
> Actually though, I think the runner photo shows full overlapping bevel siding (also done in Japan) with the runners. But in that case, the runners are notched to allow for the bevel (nice look, but time consuming and tricky). For the full overlap bevel with notched runner, it might be better seen in these photos.
> 
> ...




Those notched straps really showcase some amazing craftsmanship, and you are also correct that I will probably not be doing that. Haha at least not on the bulk of the house, maybe on a special spot in the back patio area. You are very knowledgeable in this technique! I do have a question about it: is there a large difference in the protective value depending on HOW charred the wood is? Some do a heavy burning and then brush off most of the black carbon before coating with oil. While the classic japanese homes I've seen are completely charred and carbonized without any brushing or scraping. Are you aware of one being better than the other? I do like being able to see the wood grain, but if it takes away much of the protective value I may use stain instead of linseed oil to gain back some durability in the installation. Thanks again for your input


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## IyaMan (Aug 10, 2016)

The protective value of charring probably depends on tree species and external conditions (rain, temp, humidity, bugs, etc). As mentioned, Japanese cedar is a bit different than US cedar, mainly in that its faster growing, absorbs more water, and is softer. But then again, Japan is generally wetter and more humid than the US. I've tried charring other woods, and while the results vary, they all don't have the same effect as cedar (though some do look nice, but in a different way). I prefer just hitting it with a torch for a couple seconds (while keeping it in constant motion), where the grain becomes immediately pronounced. It may take a few boards till you get the hang of it (variables include speed of movement, flame temp, distance of flame to wood, and tightness of grain).

But simply put, Japan cedar is actually a pretty crummy wood, and the inventiveness of charring it is to be able to utilize it, since its so common (and I mean mono-culture common. Its _everywhere._). By charring it, it can resist bugs, rot, and moisture better. Mainly, when you char the wood, the softer white grains take more effect from the flame, while the red tannin parts take less. Since the tannin in a tree is what is most bug, fire, and rot resistant, the soft white non-tannin part would be the first to succumb to the elements, but charring offsets this. To thoroughly blacken helps more I suppose, but it's probably unnecessary in cedar unless it's getting heavy moisture exposure, like if it's in constant shade, on the windward side of a house in a rainy place, etc. But I'll admit that I don't know much about thorough blackening and its comparably protective effects. And again, Japan is quite wet, but if you're in the PNW, its probably similar.


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## stikine (Aug 10, 2016)

Here are a few pictures of the siding installed and with the rabbet cut out.


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## IyaMan (Aug 10, 2016)

@stikine it seems like a lot of those boards have nice quartersaw grain, which is most effective in being long lasting. Looks pretty nice!

Here's a video of a DIY quartersawn clapboard mill.


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## IyaMan (Aug 10, 2016)

@stikine Whats up with the roof? Wood shingles? How are they cut and how do they last?


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## stikine (Aug 10, 2016)

Certainly faster than a CSM!


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## stikine (Aug 10, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> @stikine Whats up with the roof? Wood shingles? How are they cut and how do they last?


Those are hand split red cedar shakes. I split log rounds into 24" bolts and then split the shakes out with a froe. The shakes are all quarter grain so they last a long time.

There are a bunch of hemlock needles on the roof at the moment which gives it that red fuzzy look.


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## IyaMan (Aug 10, 2016)

stikine said:


> Those are hand split red cedar shakes. I split log rounds into 24" bolts and then split the shakes out with a froe.



Good on you! Looks sweet. Must have been a heck of a workout! 

I have a friend here who did the same thing about 13 years ago on his garage, also with cedar. Took him weeks to split and went through three home-made froes. Most people thought he was nuts due to all the rain we get, but its still holding up.


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## stikine (Aug 10, 2016)

I packed the shake bolts out of the woods and brought them home so I could split the shakes whenever I had some spare time in the evenings. It was fun splitting them and figuring out how to get the best yield. I didn't brake any froes and I found that old bowling pins make great froe mallets.


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## Jesse snowden (Aug 11, 2016)

stikine said:


> I packed the shake bolts out of the woods and brought them home so I could split the shakes whenever I had some spare time in the evenings. It was fun splitting them and figuring out how to get the best yield. I didn't brake any froes and I found that old bowling pins make great froe mallets.



I've been telling everyone that what you did is what I want to do and they all think I'm nuts! Haha the few and the proud I suppose. Question: how clear does red cedar need to be to split for shingles? Of course any retailer will say "only the finest old growth straight grain will do for our customers" but in reality, what height and diameter of tree will start to produce good shingle bolts?


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## Sawyer Rob (Aug 11, 2016)

LOT'S of shingles were made from white oak too... along with some other species...

SR


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## Jesse snowden (Aug 11, 2016)

So after doing a lot more reading about the yakisugi method I may actually switch gears and mill board and batten siding! Almost all the old japanese buildings I've seen with that siding the boards are mounted vertically to some respect. Plus it would be a much simpler job cutting all square boards. I'll attach pictures of the house I'm buying and a house I think has a good look for reference.


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## IyaMan (Aug 11, 2016)

Jesse snowden said:


> I may actually switch gears and mill board and batten siding!



Yeah, I was thinking of suggesting that too. Could look pretty nice. 

Though I'd be cautious about the roof shingles. Thats _a lot_ of wood, and not necessarily wise to do a big roof on a primary residence for your first project. There may also be building code and insurance factors too, so look before you leap. 

You may want to use a program like Sketch Up by Google to both make a visual model and to later make any building plans. Its a free program download and pretty easy to use once you figure out all that can be done. You can even put in your own photo and design right on top of it if you want to get an idea of how it'll look. http://www.sketchup.com/


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## tntatro (Jan 7, 2017)

I'm a bit late to this thread but I have found that milling tapered siding is very easy when using a chainsaw mill. I did some 7" wide tapered from about 11/16" to 5/16". Just square the log to put an edge on it, cut beams the thickness depending on what you want the width of siding to be. Put washers between the cross piece on your mill attachment, and experiment a little to get the right dimensions. Switch sides after each cut. Best if you have decent sized logs to work with. Fuel and bar oil are a relatively small expense. Once logs are milled down to beams then it's easy milling light duty work for your chainsaw + nice clean wood = less sharpening.


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## infometric (Jan 17, 2017)

I did my house with poplar, very nice.
HIRE THE WOODMIZER with siding fixture. It's amazing fast!
Start with 1 1/8 boards, so they are robust.
Build a pair of the little tools for hanging siding.
Use stainless ring nails, with heads.
Don't nail through the board underneath.
Nail into studs.
WL


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## Franny K (Jan 18, 2017)

infometric said:


> I did my house with poplar, very nice.
> HIRE THE WOODMIZER with siding fixture. It's amazing fast!
> Start with 1 1/8 boards, so they are robust.
> Build a pair of the little tools for hanging siding.
> ...



I have never seen clabboard siding that did not go through two courses. Nail about half an inch up from the bottom. A 4 inch to the weather is about 5 1/2 inch total. The cedar siding for sale around here is planed and rounded corners and of course dried.

I did buy one of those attachments to make the siding out of cants. I have yet to try it on a manual mill, the hydraulic one was frustrating getting the blade to go down just the right amount. Chances are my cants will move as 40% is turned into lap siding before turning. Then how to dry it. I am going to try the tilted resaw method next which is what I think you mean Woodmizer siding fixture.


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## infometric (Jan 18, 2017)

I got it pretty dry before cutting the siding.
I made 1 1/8 boards, set the fixture and blade to do the split for two equal boards, and ran them through.
The fixture has its own feed wheels and the head stays locked in position and elevation.
It's fast. You can do a house worth in a day, I think. Feed rate is adjustable and is set about like regular cutting, I think.
I used 8" boards, but of course you can adjust to fit your logs. Set exposure as you like.
My sources say don't nail through the top edge, to avoid splitting.
Having the nail through the top edge does nothing for holding.
A headed ring nail can't be pulled out of a stud by warping wood.
My poplar is going on 20 yr old and remains in perfect shape. Pine on other buildings in fine too.
I built a trough out of 2X10s and poured in stain for dunking my siding. It's good to stain both sides and let it soak in.
I nailed some vertical battens to the ends of the tank, so I could stand the siding in them and knock off excess stain with a brush. It moves fairly quickly.
Of course you could stack and sticker green siding, which would dry pretty fast, then stain, but you'd have more warping.
I stacked and stickered for a while after dipping.
I think there were 600 boards, but not sure.
Poplar was the siding of choice for upscale colonial homes, often cut with a pitsaw, believe it or not. You can see it done at Williamsburg.
My siding is far superior to any I've seen in stores. No, not planed, but thicker and heavier.
WL


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## dallasm1 (Jan 19, 2017)

I also am very late for this thread, so this info is just to add to the knowledge base on siding. We used our Rip Saw (440 drive). Nice thing about a rip saw is that there is very little lost in the kerf as there would be with a chainsaw.


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## dallasm1 (Jan 19, 2017)

I should add that the chain saw head is 044, (not 440), and the wood is Yellow Cedar, local wood off our property (Coastal PNW).


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## Southernlogger (Jan 19, 2017)

stikine said:


> View attachment 518476
> View attachment 518477


Nice wood what saw you running there?


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## dallasm1 (Jan 20, 2017)

That's a RipSaw, driven by a Stihl 044 chain saw head. You can search the archives and see lots of info on them. You don't hear about them too much anymore. Very portable, very touchy with the setup and it cuts well when you get the setup right.


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