# 40:1, 50:1 does it matter?



## scranner (Jan 11, 2008)

Hi, just bought my first saw (although used them in the past with more experienced mates) and have been reading stuff avidly for the last few days. The saw's a Husky 142 (I know, almost a toy!) but my question is why do they state using a 40:1 mix and almost everywhere else I look 50:1 seems standard practice? Would using the leaner mix hurt the Husky (not that I intend to). It just seems wierd that Husqvarna bucks (ha!) the trend...


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## Canyonbc (Jan 12, 2008)

scranner said:


> Hi, just bought my first saw (although used them in the past with more experienced mates) and have been reading stuff avidly for the last few days. The saw's a Husky 142 (I know, almost a toy!) but my question is why do they state using a 40:1 mix and almost everywhere else I look 50:1 seems standard practice? Would using the leaner mix hurt the Husky (not that I intend to). It just seems wierd that Husqvarna bucks (ha!) the trend...



Thats weird. 

I had a Husky 142, and i always ran 50:1 through it...always. Never a problem, sold it to a friend and it runs good for him. 

87octane gasoline, 1 gallon. 2.6 oz oil. 

I am not sure...it weird that it says...is there a number to call for Husky, or have you tried online.


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## windthrown (Jan 12, 2008)

Hey, another oil thread! We never get enough of a chance on AS to talk about oil! But the gas... 87 octane? Regular gas???? 

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... I can hear the engine ping from here! 

No saws mnfg. that I know recommend 87. Most all recommend 89 or more. I run supreme... (pisses the GF off, but I insist on better gas for the saws).


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## ckliff (Jan 12, 2008)

Just to keep the latest oil thread going:biggrinbounce2: ...

What difference/harm in running 40:1 in my ms200t instead of the recommended 50:1 ?


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## reachtreeservi (Jan 12, 2008)

I believe this is a question for our resident oil mix expert   Mr. Nice Guy, GASoline71 .

Where ya at man ?


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## joecool85 (Jan 12, 2008)

windthrown said:


> No saws mnfg. that I know recommend 87.



Poulan does, 87 octane at 40:1
http://www.ordertree.com/cms/Poulan+Chainsaw+FAQ/242.html


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## Canyonbc (Jan 12, 2008)

windthrown said:


> Hey, another oil thread! We never get enough of a chance on AS to talk about oil! But the gas... 87 octane? Regular gas????
> 
> Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... I can hear the engine ping from here!
> 
> No saws mnfg. that I know recommend 87. Most all recommend 89 or more. I run supreme... (pisses the GF off, but I insist on better gas for the saws).



I am sorry i didnt clairify....here. 

With my Stihl's, i run one of two gas's 

Shell - Premium 
Chevron - Premium 

The 142 Husky that was given to me....ran great, but it was saw that i would train people who had never used a saw...saw i just didnt care about to much. 

I ran the cheaper gas through it....

I ended up selling it to a friend and it still runs good too this day.


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## ckliff (Jan 13, 2008)

ckliff said:


> Just to keep the latest oil thread going:biggrinbounce2: ...
> 
> What difference/harm in running 40:1 in my ms200t instead of the recommended 50:1 ?




Stihl no answer to my question...


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## reachtreeservi (Jan 13, 2008)

40:1, 50:1 does it matter? Yes. 

And I can't believe you would put anything but the manufacturer specified mix in your 200t. C'mon man. Not in your 200t.


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## Canyonbc (Jan 13, 2008)

ckliff said:


> Stihl no answer to my question...



Well here is the way i see it...especially with that nice of a saw. 

There has to be a reason that Stihl would say use 50:1. 

The other is think...what 40:1 and 50: 1 is. 

40:1 - 40 parts gas to 1 part oil 

50:1 - 50 parts gas to 1 part oil 

50:1 is gonna run hotter and faster. The 200T, has been designed to run at 50:1, and that is what we should run at.  It would seem to me that you would be bogging down your machine and running to much oil through it. 

Again, JMO...

Finally...if Stihl wanted 40:1 ran through it they would stamp use 40:1 mix. 

Canyon


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## hornett22 (Jan 13, 2008)

*it makes no difference whatsoever.*

50:1 is just a marketing gimmick the manufacturers came up with to sell less oil.


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## Canyonbc (Jan 13, 2008)

hornett22 said:


> 50:1 is just a marketing gimmick the manufacturers came up with to sell less oil.



That doesnt make sense to me. 

When manufactures, like Stihl, Echo and others...who make Chain Saws, Weed Whackers. Blowers and more...and who make oil...

WHy would they say 50:1, so they lose money and dont sell as much oil. 

I am not saying i am right your wrong, but by common sense your logic or statement doesnt make sense. 

Canyon


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## Freakingstang (Jan 13, 2008)

Has nothing to do with the oil industry.

It has to do with the EPA, trying to lean the saws out as much as possible.

It has been proven that harder working saws such as the 066/084, etc have burnt up running the recommended 50:1 on milling saws and heavy use. 

I run 40:1 in everything. That is what husky and others used to run before the epa got their hands in the mix.


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## zr900 (Jan 13, 2008)

My local Husky/Dolmar/Echo dealer only sells the husky pre-mix oil. Every saw he sells leaves the shop with a full tank of 32:1 93 octane. He then tells everyone that buys a saw that he recommends 40:1 and premium gas for the rest of the saws life. 

I have ran 40:1 in my old homelites that call for 16:1 and have not had any problems with any of them.

Just use good fresh gas

Just Say NO to ethanol in 2-strokes


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 13, 2008)

Just run straight gas........screw the oil!!!:jawdrop:


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## Canyonbc (Jan 13, 2008)

Freakingstang said:


> Has nothing to do with the oil industry.
> 
> It has to do with the EPA, trying to lean the saws out as much as possible.
> 
> ...



Really. 

That is quite interesting. 

I am a young guy, and wasn't around before the EPA got a hold of everything. 

What your saying, though i can def. see as true...as i have some older saws and blowers and they run 40:1, and 32:1...now i am considering of changing and running it a little richer. 

Love learning new things. 

Thanks for the info. 

Canyon


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## hornett22 (Jan 16, 2008)

*it shouldn't make sense.*



Canyonbc said:


> That doesnt make sense to me.
> 
> When manufactures, like Stihl, Echo and others...who make Chain Saws, Weed Whackers. Blowers and more...and who make oil...
> 
> ...



mostly for the simple fact that it was a joke.


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## undercut (Jan 17, 2008)

*my vote*

not that it matters but my vote is for a little rich on the mix. I run mid or high octane versus 87 and my mix a little rich. Always run sthil or husky oil. my saws don't smoke, run strong, never foul-up and have seen some days. I like the extra peace of mind i guess. I use the super-tech bar oil from walmart. It is really cheap and seems to work just fine. I will never skimp on my mix oil though, only name brand. My local shop informed me there is stabilizer in the name brand 2 stroke mix i found that comforting.


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## wally 12 (Jan 17, 2008)

Canyonbc said:


> Well here is the way i see it...especially with that nice of a saw.
> 
> There has to be a reason that Stihl would say use 50:1.
> 
> ...




What would be the difference in volume of gas if 50:1 = 2.6 oz.oil to 1 gal.gas
how much gas will you use to make 40:1 with 2.6 oz oil?


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## ray benson (Jan 17, 2008)

wally 12 said:


> What would be the difference in volume of gas if 50:1 = 2.6 oz.oil to 1 gal.gas
> how much gas will you use to make 40:1 with 2.6 oz oil?



40/50 or .8 gal.


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## 2FatGuys (Jan 17, 2008)

I prefer to mix using the 6.4oz containers of mix. 50:1 is with 2.5 gallons of gas and 40:1 is with 2 gallons of gas. Those are EASY numbers to remember.



wally 12 said:


> What would be the difference in volume of gas if 50:1 = 2.6 oz.oil to 1 gal.gas
> how much gas will you use to make 40:1 with 2.6 oz oil?


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## Kogafortwo (Jan 17, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> I believe this is a question for our resident oil mix expert   Mr. Nice Guy, GASoline71 .
> 
> Where ya at man ?



Yeah, where's Gary when you need him???


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## squad143 (Jan 17, 2008)

I could be wrong, but I think you guys are missing the boat. It is not necessary what the manual says, but on what type/brand oil you are using. 

Yes, Stihl recommends a mix at 50:1, but using their oil.

Not all 2 stroke oils are created the same. I've seen differences from 20:1 to 100:1.

If Sthil says 50:1 using their oil, then use 50:1 with their oil.

If in doubt, always go richer. Sure the saw will smoke and carbon could be an issue (over the long term), but too lean and she'll seize rather quicker with expen$ive results.


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## ApexTreeService (Feb 16, 2008)

What about Amsoil's 100:1 Saber?


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## lxt (Mar 25, 2008)

ApexTreeService said:


> What about Amsoil's 100:1 Saber?





Thats what I use!! To answer the thread topic question.....It doesnt matter what mix ratio you use, 40:1, 50:1, or 100:1.

this question always cracks me up......mix is mix!! I live close to an Ashland fuel refinery/storage facility, a buddy of mine works the R&D dept. I have talked to him about this & even had him check out the different mix ratios!!

Guess what........No difference!!! there are only a hand full of mix Manufacturers, MTD-makes(supplies) for about 50% or better of power equip., husky, echo, stihl, etc.... all use the same Mfg but have their name put on the bottle!! 

The ratio is just a mathmatical unit of measure providing the user with information on the amount of mix to be introduced to the product......thats it!! you will use more 40:1 than 100:1 but will get the same results in the end...... ohh. the wonderful green, blue & other colors are Mfg tinting dies & dont mean anything!!

Im sure some will chime in & try to make this seem very technical, but if a Lab tech tells me theres no difference in the amsoil mix as opposed to echos power blend as compared to husky/stihls mix after being tested.....whats that tell you!! more $$$$$$ for a name!!!


LXT..............


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## masterarbor (Mar 25, 2008)

hornett22 said:


> 50:1 is just a marketing gimmick the manufacturers came up with to sell less oil.


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 25, 2008)

One good point: As an old time 2 stroke mechanic, make sure you buy 2 stroke oil formulated for AIR-COOLED ENGINES . You realize, 2 stroke oil, is made for outboard motors. They are WATER-COOLED ENGINES.If you buy the wrong oil, your piston/cylinder & rings are trash. Always read your owners manual for proper oil/gas ratios. Octane ratings are not the big problem. Some ethanol additives can cause failures, depending on ratio. Above 10% may cause issues. Check the signs around those pumps before purchase.Happy stroking!!!!:greenchainsaw:


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## Saw Bones (Mar 25, 2008)

Keep it simple. Run 3 oz to the gallon and go to work.


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## dumbhunter (Apr 3, 2008)

2 stroke oil?? my old boss i trimmed trees for never used the stuff. he would buy a non detergent 30w oil and mix till the gas just turned color and looked right in his eyes. saws ran like a champ, never burned one up or fouled them out. he taught me how to do this but i eventualy converted to the mix. he saved money doing this and been doing it along time. now in a pinch i do this as i run that oil for my bar in cold weather as regular bar oil turns to thick when its cold. im just wondering if anyone else out there has done this?


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## N1ST (Apr 3, 2008)

Ok, I gotta ask. My old Partner (s50) says to run 50:1 of partner oil or twice as much (25:1) of any other type. Sound strange?


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## Magnum783 (Apr 3, 2008)

dumbhunter said:


> 2 stroke oil?? my old boss i trimmed trees for never used the stuff. he would buy a non detergent 30w oil and mix till the gas just turned color and looked right in his eyes. saws ran like a champ, never burned one up or fouled them out. he taught me how to do this but i eventualy converted to the mix. he saved money doing this and been doing it along time. now in a pinch i do this as i run that oil for my bar in cold weather as regular bar oil turns to thick when its cold. im just wondering if anyone else out there has done this?



My old man runs 30w for bar oil all the time. He say if his Old Farmall M can run on 30w oil for over fifty years now so can his chain. He cut 15 cords a year.
Jared


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## jefferyc22 (Apr 8, 2008)

Freakingstang said:


> Has nothing to do with the oil industry.
> 
> It has to do with the EPA, trying to lean the saws out as much as possible.
> 
> ...



That is EXACTLY my feeling on this couldn't agree more...........
Nothing more than Stihl and Huskajunk making the saws spew less crap out the exhaust.
Yes oil is better now but 40-1 is still better(my fav 020T still tachs 14,000) on your saw than 50-1......
50-1 = higher tach/chain speed,less torque, higher temps, more bearing wear
40-1 = lower tach/chain speed,more torque,lower temps, less bearing wear

The "shops" standard answer is "its made to run like that" and it is .......but they also know it wears out sooner and you are alot closer to burn out. 

CHECK THIS OUT:
-You run your 020T/MS200T(piss on husky) at 50-1 and adjust the high jet to run around 15K unloaded.
-You are up a tree with a full tank limbing your way up.....little do you know that your tank vent is clogged(the increasing vacuum in the tank starts to lean out your high end).
-You probably would never notice the lean issue on the way up a conifer(fast short limb cuts)
-You burn up about half a tank on a large D fir or Pondo just on the way up.
-Your at the top, you make your face to top the tree(ambient saw temp just went way up)
-If your like me you tach the saw to max on the back cut lest the saw gag,stop,stutter,hang etc. while making the most critical cut.......In the heat of the moment(at this point I dont care how hard I'm being on the saw I just don't want my saw to quite in the back cut while my groundy is pulling the top)
-Recipe for seizure: Your saw tachs way to high due to the vac in the tank, the 50-1 mix, the already lean jet and the prolonged heavy load (back cut or blocking)
-The heat is REALLY high in a 020T doing a back cut in 14" wood.

NO THANKS I'll keep running 40-1


FYI: The unused gas/oil going out the exhaust actually helps pull heat out of the saw.


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## FSTS (Apr 8, 2008)

So even if your saw mfg recommends 50:1 you are still better off running 40:1 correct? It makes sense to me.


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## jefferyc22 (Apr 8, 2008)

FSTS said:


> So even if your saw mfg recommends 50:1 you are still better off running 40:1 correct? It makes sense to me.



40:1 in the "modern" high end stuff anyway...........
Are their really any saws besides Stihl and husky?


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## lxt (Apr 8, 2008)

jefferyc22 said:


> That is EXACTLY my feeling on this couldn't agree more...........
> Nothing more than Stihl and Huskajunk making the saws spew less crap out the exhaust.
> Yes oil is better now but 40-1 is still better(my fav 020T still tachs 14,000) on your saw than 50-1......
> 50-1 = higher tach/chain speed,less torque, higher temps, more bearing wear
> ...





Not to be cruel....But this is the biggest bunch of :censored: crap Ive ever heard!!! I have an 020 & have ran just about every ratio on gods earth & that Tach reading is the same no matter what!!

ratio`s do not matter!!!! read my earlier post regarding Ashland oil`s R&D dept testing the various mix ratios.......They all tested the SAME!!!!


LXT..............


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## jefferyc22 (Apr 8, 2008)

lxt said:


> Thats what I use!! To answer the thread topic question.....It doesnt matter what mix ratio you use, 40:1, 50:1, or 100:1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If that is true than go ahead and mix your saw gas at 100:1 and tell us how it goes!...........jack%^$!


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## cjk (Apr 8, 2008)

*Amsoil 100:1*

A friend at work swears by this stuff. Amsoil 100:1 in any and all 2 stroke engine. He claims to have called Amsoil and talked to an engineer. 

He used to race snowmobiles and claims with less oil he gets more gas(richer, cooler). 
More gas= more power. 
After every season he would tear down the engine and everything looks good as new. 

I have no reason to doubt him as he is quite a motorhead, but my stuff gets 50:1. I dont want to prove him right or wrong with my engines.


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## lxt (Apr 9, 2008)

jefferyc22 said:


> If that is true than go ahead and mix your saw gas at 100:1 and tell us how it goes!...........jack%^$!




I do every day!! Amsoil 100:1 & have been doing so for the better part of my tree career.............guess what? NO PROBLEMS!!! Jack%^$!  

I guess you have tested & know better than those who have? ...what a meat whistle!!


LXT...........


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## ray benson (Apr 9, 2008)

I have used amsoil in 3 saws at about 70/1. They didn't like it. I wouldn't run amsoil again if it was given to me. Give Mobil 2t oil a try, 3 oz./gal.


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## Slvrmple72 (Apr 9, 2008)

hornett22 said:


> 50:1 is just a marketing gimmick the manufacturers came up with to sell less oil.



LMAO!!!


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## czeigler (Apr 10, 2008)

lxt said:


> Jack%^$!
> 
> ...what a meat whistle!!
> 
> ...



opcorn: :sword: opcorn:


This is getting too funny!


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## Ole Farmerbuck (Apr 10, 2008)

The owners manual that came with my super xl says to use a good quality SAE-30 motor oil. Preferably Homelite Motor Oil. I think i'll use 2 stroke though.


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## ShockaSPY (Apr 11, 2008)

100:1?
I let someone borrow one of my 310's and when I got it back it had crap compression. Took a sample of the gas to ABC(Local Performance Shop) and the mixture was 85:1. 100:1 sounds like nothing but problems. I should have let that person borrow a junk echo... if I had an echo....


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## cjk (Apr 11, 2008)

From what I understand, the 100:1 Amsoil is a special synthetic oil designed for 100:1 mix. I wouldnt try mixing just any oil at 100:1. 

If I was after the most power out of an engine(racing), I may try it. It should, theoretically allow more gas to get burned and produce more energy. Gas has more energy than oil. So more gas and less oil should give more power. But there must be a fine line there somewhere......

I do not use 100:1. I figure the extra cost of the "special" oil evens out any $$ savings and Im not racing anyone. 

I would love to see a test with 2 identical saws, 1 running the 100:1 and one the factory recommended mix. Maybe even another saw running extra oil. Tear them down after an equal amount of hours/work and see what they look like. It would be tough to control all the conditions in the experiment. 

Any volunteers? I think this is why we dont see a lot of DATA on this type of issue.


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## Saw Bones (Apr 12, 2008)

scranner said:


> Hi, just bought my first saw (although used them in the past with more experienced mates) and have been reading stuff avidly for the last few days. The saw's a Husky 142 (I know, almost a toy!) but my question is why do they state using a 40:1 mix and almost everywhere else I look 50:1 seems standard practice? Would using the leaner mix hurt the Husky (not that I intend to). It just seems wierd that Husqvarna bucks (ha!) the trend...




this topic has been beat to death. Do a Search and you will find hours and hours of reading on it.:deadhorse:


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## BC WetCoast (Apr 13, 2008)

We had a training session last week with the Stihl tech manager. I will try and tell some of the things we were told, but unfortunately, my old brain can't remember some of the technical reasonings. Some of you may not agree with the reasons, but I'm only the messenger here.

Also most of this relates to the new saws that are designed to meet the emission standards of California Air Quality Board and the European Union which also has strict air emission standards. To meet their requirements, the operating heat range has a tight range.

Octane ratings - use only 89 or higher. Apparently, the octane changes the burn rate within the combustion chamber and the higher octane gives a more even controlled burn. Therefore, the lower octane fuel causes the saw to run too hot.

The new saws have redesigned carbs that self adjust their richness, so we were told that the high/low speed jets should never be adjusted in the field. And no adjustment should be done without using a tach as a change in 1000 rpms from optimum can cause problems.

If you run the gas/oil mix too rich, you are just as liable to burn up the saw as if you were to run it too lean. I believe the explanation for this is because the fuel in the crankcase being vapourized provides most of the engine cooling. A richer mix vapourizes at a hotter temperature, causing the engine to run hotter.

The new double barreled carbs now have check valves in them that will be damaged if you blow out the carb with compressed air.

The old cylinders were ported in such as way that as much as 25% the gas was wasted going through the exhaust port. The new cylinder ports are designed to only lose 3 %.

The 2 cycle oil used has to be blended for use in an AIR cooled engine. Because water cooled 2 cycles (ie outboard motors) run cooler, the operating characteristics of the oil is different. It was recommended to use high quality 2 cycle oil designed for air cooled engines. We don't use Stihl oil, but the oil we used passed muster.

People have a right to be skeptical given the source of information, but he was very good at showing (using demo saws with portions removed) the differences between the new model and older model saws. If anyone has a chance to talk to one of the factory tech service reps (the guys who train the dealer service techs) its worth the time.

BTW, I don't work for Stihl. I'm sure the Husky rep would have been just as informative.


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## Marquis (Apr 16, 2008)

I run 50:1 in all my saws, including my weed wacker for my home lawn. No problems here.......


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## Nate Surveyor (May 1, 2008)

*Just a comment*

IF you run richer mix, then the mixed fuel is THICKER, and runs SLOWER through the saw, and thus it runs LEANER, on the air fuel ratio. 

If you can run around 35:1, AND rejet it, to run rich enough, then the thing will dribble oil out the exhaust, and power will be good, and it will last a long time. 

Running too much oil can foul a plug. 

So, we have a 3 way ratio. 

GAS/OIL/AIR.

don't forget about the air!

Nate:greenchainsaw:


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## retired redneck (May 1, 2008)

Mobil 1 r 2t at 32/1 adjust carb to run on this mix,i have used this mix for ever ,never a bad piston or jug no carbon probs.............


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## Dennis_Peacock (May 1, 2008)

I've ran Amsoil 100:1 two cycle oil in all my saws, weedeaters, blowers, and trimmers since 1986. Never had any problem with any of them. My last weedeater lasted me 20 years and I would still have it today if I could have found some replacement parts for the thang that just plain wore out. I've used it for over 20 years and I'll keep using it. Works great and I get better power than using the Stihl premium 2SO.


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## huskykid141 (May 2, 2008)

Running a richer fuel mix it best because it the oil is used to lubricate the piston and cylinder because the two stroke dosen't have motor oil in the crankcase like a four stroke. Also running a richer fuel mixture will never burn out a saw. The saw will bog down and it will fowl plugs but your better off running a two stroke or any engine richer. If you run it too lean you will burn out the engine and then your talking big bucks. The most that will happen running a engine too rich is you fowl a plug or have some carbon build up. I was always told your better running rich than too lean.


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## retired redneck (May 2, 2008)

huskykid141 said:


> Running a richer fuel mix it best because it the oil is used to lubricate the piston and cylinder because the two stroke dosen't have motor oil in the crankcase like a four stroke. Also running a richer fuel mixture will never burn out a saw. The saw will bog down and it will fowl plugs but your better off running a two stroke or any engine richer. If you run it too lean you will burn out the engine and then your talking big bucks. The most that will happen running a engine too rich is you fowl a plug or have some carbon build up. I was always told your better running rich than too lean.



+ 1


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## ApexTreeService (Oct 2, 2009)

Well I've been running Amsoil Saber 100:1 for about a year now with no problems. I like it because you only have to buy $ half as much, so it saves me $ there. I really like how little the saws smoke. Used to smoke ya out when cutting off a stump burning 50:1. With 100:1 there isn't that haze near the ground where your kneeling. The Amsoil has a blue die in it. I also ran it in my two stroke dirt bikes all summer. I trust Amsoil products, I think it is a quality product.


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## blewgrass (Oct 2, 2009)

Now here's something that hasn't been said here, or as far as I know anywhere else either. I don't think that I've ever completely emptied my gas jugs. They might get down to the point where there is one tank full and then I fill them. In topping the tank off and then adding a full container of oil I always have a richer ratio because there is already some mix (50+:1) plus a complete bottle of oil. Does that make sense? Did I blow anyone's mind?


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## scotclayshooter (Oct 2, 2009)

Timberwolf says ure 40:1 so thats good enough for me!


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## huskystihl (Oct 2, 2009)

ApexTreeService said:


> Well I've been running Amsoil Saber 100:1 for about a year now with no problems. I like it because you only have to buy $ half as much, so it saves me $ there. I really like how little the saws smoke. Used to smoke ya out when cutting off a stump burning 50:1. With 100:1 there isn't that haze near the ground where your kneeling. The Amsoil has a blue die in it. I also ran it in my two stroke dirt bikes all summer. I trust Amsoil products, I think it is a quality product.



I agree! I run it now over stihl because of price. I run it at around 75:1 though. No problems in day to use.


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## hwrdpromac7900 (Oct 2, 2009)

Anyone ever try running rc fuel in a chain saw? I mean come on, 30% nitro it's gotta run for at least 3 seconds.:chainsawguy:


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## crmyers (Oct 2, 2009)

hwrdpromac800 said:


> Anyone ever try running rc fuel in a chain saw? I mean come on, 30% nitro it's gotta run for at least 3 seconds.:chainsawguy:



I tried it in a weed whacker once. That thing would scream but the alcohol eat up the fuel lines and the carb diaphragm. The exhaust was murder to.


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## hwrdpromac7900 (Oct 2, 2009)

Sweet!


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## Terry Syd (Oct 2, 2009)

*Synthetics vs petroleum*

I wrote an article on motorcycle oils a couple of decades ago. There were two different wear tests that the oils were subjected to. The oil that came out the least amount of wear was castor oil, followed by various synthetics and carrying up the rear was petroleum based.

The synthetics have improved since then and you don't have to worry about gumming up the rings like with castor oil.

As for keeping a two-stroke engine running; I remember a desert race where the leader ran out of fuel four miles from the finish. He pushed over to a motorhome and got some fuel, splashed in some ATF and ran the guts out of the engine to the finish and won the race.

I remember another fellow that seized his engine at an enduro because he forgot to add his oil to the fuel. Stuck beside the trail, he emptied a small spray can of chain oil into his tank, sloshed it around, and then went on to finish the enduro.

A two-stroke can take all sorts of oil to keep it running, however long term wear is another matter.

Take a look at your rings. If you see small brown or blue spots on the surface of the rings then the oil film is breaking down and you are getting metal to metal contact.

Now here's a point that nobody addresses - air filtration. The layer of oil on the surfaces in side the cylinder are extremely small, however dust is many more times larger than that layer. That is what gives your piston the nice clean looking piston skirt - dust. If your piston skirt has a layer of baked on carbon, then you are running clean air.

Most, if not all, two-stroke oils that are on the market can do the job. However, if you can't be bothered to keep the dust out of the engine, you might as well run the cheapest oil available.


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## stihlboy (Oct 2, 2009)

This thread was old........


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## Jacob J. (Oct 2, 2009)

stihlboy said:


> This thread was old........



Well since it's been dredged up: I found this can the other day in the ditch near the head of my driveway. It still has the factory seal on it so I'm thinking the label is correct. Should I make saw gas out of this?


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## Slamm (Oct 2, 2009)

For about one week now I have been running 80:1-100:1 ratio of Amsoil Saber in my 260, 361, 441 and a 660 and 084. All have been ported and muffler modded and all seem to run just fine. The 260, 361 and 441 have eaten the most of this ratio and no problems.

For gas I use AV 100 Low Lead.

I have been somewhat scared to run this 100:1 ratio oil, but at 50:1 the Amsoil has so much oil coating the piston, you could see that half of that amount would still be plenty.

We'll see if the saws last over a month, LOL.

Sam


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## kevlar (Oct 3, 2009)

Here is my take on this subject,my experiance comes from 2 stroke motorcycles,the ski-doo shop/chainsaw dealer where i have worked for the last 7 years as a Stihl tech.

- just keep doing whatever it is you are doing if it is working for you. I like 50:1.

- pick your oil and stick with it!! (see more sleds go down from what seems like switching oil at every different place they ride)

-a 2 stroke running 32:1 or 40:1 that is improperly tuned will make lots of carbon! 50:1 will make carbon too but not as badly.

-to me 91 octane is the minimum I run in my saws. The higher the rating the less chance there is ethanol in the blend. Leaded fuel Rocks, thats why the old saws lasted so long.


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## huskystihl (Oct 4, 2009)

Slamm said:


> For about one week now I have been running 80:1-100:1 ratio of Amsoil Saber in my 260, 361, 441 and a 660 and 084. All have been ported and muffler modded and all seem to run just fine. The 260, 361 and 441 have eaten the most of this ratio and no problems.
> 
> For gas I use AV 100 Low Lead.
> 
> ...



Don't worry your safe. I had the same fears when I started running it and even went 50:1 which was way to rich for my saws. I use 4oz at 2 gallons which is about 75 or 80:1. Just got done takin down over 200 ash trees, victims of the ash borer in 90 deg heat and not once did a saw fail. The only time they got a break was for refueling and we ran about 25 gallons through them so I think that was a pretty good test. This was a job where we dropped em topped em and what didn't go to the mill was made into firewood so we used every saw you can think of from 192's 200's up to 660's for stumping including 372's and 441's and they never missed a beat. I'm confident in amsoil to say the least now.


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## 16gauge (Oct 4, 2009)

Saw Bones said:


> Keep it simple. Run 3 oz to the gallon and go to work.



1 Rep...KISS = keep it simple stup...works every time it is tried unless your saw has other "issues"


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## stihlboy (Oct 4, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> Well since it's been dredged up: I found this can the other day in the ditch near the head of my driveway. It still has the factory seal on it so I'm thinking the label is correct. Should I make saw gas out of this?



how did you know i deal with vp? you could but it is leaded your best bet is the 100 octane unleaded


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## porsche965 (Nov 11, 2009)

Husky/Stihl,

I agree with the Amsoil. I run 50:1 for a few tanks on break-in then bring it up to your 4 ounces to 2 gallons which is 64:1, not 75-80:1. I also use Marine fuel 89 octane, no ethanol and add sta-bil even though non-ethanol fuel stores way longer than pump gas. 

At 64:1 with Amsoil if I get a splash over in fuel to the can it still has a wide safety margin not to be on the edge like 80-100:1 is. Or if too much oil remains in the mixing cup. 

Use the tach and the screwdriver to make it perfect! Over time one's ear can hit rpms within 200-300 to factory settings and fourstroking with practice. 

No matter what Synthetic Oil anyone uses, it is superb stuff.


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## dragrcr (Nov 11, 2009)

you guys are all WRONG, my homelite C-51 says right on the fuel cap to run16:1 SAE 30w motor oil. I run that in all my says and the run..ish


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## bullittman281 (Nov 11, 2009)

Hell.
Just a few thoughts here. If your saw smokes, carbons up, slobbers or burns up your carb is probably not adjusted. I've run leaf blower on oil silly oil ratios and never had a problem with carbon or fouled plugs or smoke. I normally run Bel-Ray cause that's what I already have mixed up for the dirt bike. Per Bel-Ray MC1 cannot be mixed heavier than 50:1 or it will gum the rings up. I believe than Bel-Ray suggest it can be mixed between 50 and 80:1. I mix as heavy as it allows. The mix ratio you use depends on the oil used, not what the manufacture said. That only applies to their oil. If the oil allows to mix heavier than 50:1 I would. Adjust the carb for the mix and days cutting conditions and you'll be good to go. My go-to saw is a PP295. I have to have well over 100Hrs on it cutting fire wood. Still on the factory plug. I have some TC rated scooter oil I'm trying to get rid of and I've been mixing heavy just to burn it off. No smoke. No fouled plug. Clean muffler. I think it is a false economy to skimp on oil. Follow the oil's recommendations or mix heavier than 50:1 and you would have any problems. Just run some oil!!

Bullittman


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## oldsaw (Nov 11, 2009)

ckliff said:


> Stihl no answer to my question...



Nothing. 40:1, 50:1, whatever floats your boat. Just contact Gary on what oil to use, he's the resident oil expert. Ask him about bar oil too.

BTW, I've got to call the guy I got the 261 from and ask him what bar oil he was using, this stuff will make 6" strings, it's insane


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## porsche965 (Nov 11, 2009)

Old Saw,

When you find out what bar oil that is let us know! I haven't seen that kind of results in years. Thanks.


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## weimedog (Nov 11, 2009)

bullittman281 said:


> Hell.
> I normally run Bel-Ray cause that's what I already have mixed up for the dirt bike. Per Bel-Ray MC1 cannot be mixed heavier than 50:1 or it will gum the rings up. I believe than Bel-Ray suggest it can be mixed between 50 and 80:1. I mix as heavy as it allows. The mix ratio you use depends on the oil used, not what the manufacture said. That only applies to their oil. If the oil allows to mix heavier than 50:1 I would. Bullittman




MC1 was their early product release for motorcycles way back in the pre-historic days. H1R is a later generation product & can be mixed at heavier ratio's. I use it at 32:1 and all my stuff runs clean. RM250, KTM 420 (1979 Oldiie), Husqvarna 430XC and all my saws (listed below) & trimmers.


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## stihlboy (Nov 11, 2009)

somebody get Erick, we were able to look at a saw that had been run on amsoil at 100:1 and there was no damage. not sure who owned the 441 though


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## gallegosmike (Nov 11, 2009)

I am using 42 to 1 in all my ***. It is 3.0 oz of oil per gallon of gas. I mix 1/2 gallon at a time to cut down on waste. It is pretty easy to remember 3.0 oz per gallon or 1.5 oz per half gallon. :monkey:


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## zoulas (Nov 11, 2009)

My Stihl dealer told me their chainsaws will overheat with 40:1. No kidding!


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## GASoline71 (Nov 11, 2009)

Your dealer is a retard...

Gary


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## pioneerguy600 (Nov 11, 2009)

zoulas said:


> My Stihl dealer told me their chainsaws will overheat with 40:1. No kidding!



What is that dealer smokin?
Pioneerguy600


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## Jtheo (Nov 11, 2009)

The books are in the shop, but either Dolmar or Stihl says use 50:1.

BUT if you use another brand of oil, use 40:1.

Figure that one out.

I started off with a Sachs Dolmar112 and run 25:1 for years, which was recommended for that saw. 

Anyway it's kind of hard for me to run 50:1 even though I do most of the time. 

Sometimes I revert though, and run 40:1 and crank out the H screw a tad.

Works good too, if there are any gnats around they leave.


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## Jtheo (Nov 11, 2009)

zoulas said:


> My Stihl dealer told me their chainsaws will overheat with 40:1. No kidding!



If the saw is tuned for 50:1 and is run on 40:1 that will lean it out a tad, but enough to over heat, I'm not sure that is right.

To compensate for the 40:1 richen up the carb a tad.

If that is not right, someone set me straight.


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## nate cutter (Nov 11, 2009)

would a change in spark plug heat index (7 to a 6) help with running extra oil?


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## logging22 (Nov 11, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> Your dealer is a retard...
> 
> Gary



:jawdrop: LMAO


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## Termite (Nov 11, 2009)

Jacob J., I posted on the problem I had that I think came from 110octane racing fuel. I think the fuel or the additives in it caused a black gummy substance to build in the combustion chamber. The piston ring was stuck so tight I had to use heat to get it to release. 
The saw only saw 110octane with Woodland Pro synthetic oil at 40 to 1. Not many responded to my thread but a few private messages agreed it was due to the racing gas.
I cleaned things up and the saw runs fine now.


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## Ulster Bob (Feb 22, 2015)

Jtheo said:


> If the saw is tuned for 50:1 and is run on 40:1 that will lean it out a tad, but enough to over heat, I'm not sure that is right.
> 
> To compensate for the 40:1 richen up the carb a tad.
> 
> If that is not right, someone set me straight.


i have an old 112 which i have run on 33 to 1 for years with no problems until recently it seems to bog out could this be the fuel


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## bikemike (Feb 22, 2015)

Termite said:


> Jacob J., I posted on the problem I had that I think came from 110octane racing fuel. I think the fuel or the additives in it caused a black gummy substance to build in the combustion chamber. The piston ring was stuck so tight I had to use heat to get it to release.
> The saw only saw 110octane with Woodland Pro synthetic oil at 40 to 1. Not many responded to my thread but a few private messages agreed it was due to the racing gas.
> I cleaned things up and the saw runs fine now.


110 will always leave a grey ash and for a 2 cycle mix it will be more black not so much goo but yeah thats the way high octane race fuel is. Not a big deal it cleans up easy


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## bikemike (Feb 22, 2015)

Termite said:


> Jacob J., I posted on the problem I had that I think came from 110octane racing fuel. I think the fuel or the additives in it caused a black gummy substance to build in the combustion chamber. The piston ring was stuck so tight I had to use heat to get it to release.
> The saw only saw 110octane with Woodland Pro synthetic oil at 40 to 1. Not many responded to my thread but a few private messages agreed it was due to the racing gas.
> I cleaned things up and the saw runs fine now.


Its the nature of high octane fuel. They ash up super truck and late model race engines too. The big thing about the race fuel is that it is only efficient with high compression engines. If you want a good cleaner fuel then go to ur local air field and buy some plane fuel it does have additives. But it does burn nice and it wont load ur engine up. Aviation standards are very high in every aspect for safety and reliability


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## nk14zp (Feb 22, 2015)

32:1.


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## bikemike (Feb 22, 2015)

Ulster Bob said:


> i have an old 112 which i have run on 33 to 1 for years with no problems until recently it seems to bog out could this be the fuel


Check your carb and clean the carbon out of ur exhaust port


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## bullrider (Feb 22, 2015)

I run sthil (grey bottle)6.4 oz to 2 gal 93 oct shell gas , in my ported saws, my stock saws,weedeaters,leaf blowers,never had any problems ,ever!!


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## pa.hunter (Feb 22, 2015)

nate cutter said:


> would a change in spark plug heat index (7 to a 6) help with running extra oil?


good question ! anyone have answer i an curious as well !


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## bikemike (Feb 22, 2015)

pa.hunter said:


> good question ! anyone have answer i an curious as well !


Not too much difference after its warmed up and cleaned out but a hotter plug takes longer for the porcelain to dry. Ur saw should be just fine at 40:1 with good oil and 32:1 mix youl fin yourself going through a plug and cleaning ur screen more not a big issue those are cheap vs fried engine parts. The lean mix ratios of today is cause of epa standards so manufacturers can have there saws tested passed and sold on the market. Its bull shart but rules are made to be broken


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## 2dogs (Feb 22, 2015)

Hey mod gods, could you please merge all the oil threads into one mega-thread? Just put all the responses into a blender and let them fall into what order they may. It really won't make a difference. I love oil threads.


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## bikemike (Feb 22, 2015)

dragrcr said:


> you guys are all WRONG, my homelite C-51 says right on the fuel cap to run16:1 SAE 30w motor oil. I run that in all my says and the run..ish


Yeah this is a homelite zip and it was a heavy mix of motor oil. Went to a newer oil and a lil less of 32:1 and still clouds out the mosquitoes. But im not having the spark arrestor plug up as often. Good old saw just used it yesterday.


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## bikemike (Feb 22, 2015)

zoulas said:


> My Stihl dealer told me their chainsaws will overheat with 40:1. No kidding!


Yeah what ever. That guy doesn't even know what toilet paper is. If he did he wouldn't be that full of sh!t. Anything can overheat no matter how much or little oil is mixed in. He should fire himself so he doesn't ruin the shops reputation anymore than he already has. Fart fart. Ooppps shart


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## CR888 (Feb 22, 2015)

Ulster Bob said:


> i have an old 112 which i have run on 33 to 1 for years with no problems until recently it seems to bog out could this be the fuel


Maybe needs new rings...a compression test could varify this. Also make sure spark arrester is clean.....a blowtorch burns the carbon off and cleans them best but a wire brush will also work.


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## Termite (Feb 22, 2015)

bikemike said:


> Its the nature of high octane fuel. They ash up super truck and late model race engines too. The big thing about the race fuel is that it is only efficient with high compression engines. If you want a good cleaner fuel then go to ur local air field and buy some plane fuel it does have additives. But it does burn nice and it wont load ur engine up. Aviation standards are very high in every aspect for safety and reliability


Yep, that's what I did or ah! do.


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 22, 2015)

2dogs said:


> Hey mod gods, could you please merge all the oil threads into one mega-thread? Just put all the responses into a blender and let them fall into what order they may. It really won't make a difference. I love oil threads.


Oil is probably the most over thought topic on AS.


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## 1Alpha1 (Feb 22, 2015)

Seems like this oil thread has pretty much run it's course. 

I simply can't wait until another starts up.


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## Deleted member 83629 (Feb 22, 2015)

its your saw run what ever the hell you want in it but does this forum really need a topic over 5 pages that has been discussed for 14 years on this forum?


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## bikemike (Feb 23, 2015)

CR888 said:


> Maybe needs new rings...a compression test could varify this. Also make sure spark arrester is clean.....a blowtorch burns the carbon off and cleans them best but a wire brush will also work.


Yeah i clean screens like that torch em till they ash then wire brush. Better than new after that


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## bikemike (Feb 23, 2015)

jakewells said:


> its your saw run what ever the hell you want in it but does this forum really need a topic over 5 pages that has been discussed for 14 years on this forum?


Yes it does. Find a old thread and you get called names. Lmao


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## Wow (May 16, 2018)

bikemike said:


> Yes it does. Find a old thread and you get called names. Lmao


New members do read OLD threads. The information is NEW to us.

The question I have that so far I've NEVER seen discussed is something mathematical that I've talked to lots of smart people about and either I'm a dummy or an over thinker.
I'd like to post a question based upon the belief that as others join and read these old posts, someone may be able to help me with my math.
Here it is: One US gallon is 128 ounces. Therefore seeking a 40:1 ratio by dividing 128 by 40 we get 3.2 for an answer. On this we all agree. BUT, when we add 128 + 3.2 out net volume increases to 131.2.
How can we have a true 40:1 ratio based upon a net volume of 131.2 when the added oil is 3.2, ?
If 131.2 is divided by 3.2 we get 41 for the answer.
While this is small it's incorrect in my mind. 
Am I doing the math wrong?
When I mix I mix the entire net volume with oil included to equal 128 ounces. I mix 2 gallons at a time. I level my container to be sure the fuel correctly touches the 128 ounce mark precisely.
In my experience my saws seem more predictable and need less tuning when my petrol mix is more precise. 
After reading this OLD post tonight, which I very much appreciate, one post stood out. The idea of using a bottle of 6.4 ounces of oil to 2 gallons of gasoline for a 40:1 ratio seems smart especially since I'm already mixing 2 gallon at a time.
I can do that easy.
Now my original question?
Probably don't make a big difference but if we split hairs, we do need to keep the net content 128 ounces, correct?


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## Little Al (May 16, 2018)

Canyonbc said:


> Well here is the way i see it...especially with that nice of a saw.
> 
> There has to be a reason that Stihl would say use 50:1.
> 
> ...


The only reason Stihl & others state 50/1 mix it to comply with the US emissions with out a saw redesign If you read the literature on obtaining power from a 2 smoke motor you will find as the tuning guru's did/do the more oil in the mix (within reason) the harder /better it will run with correct tuningNot Bull s**t proven by running/performance the logic if you consider it Metal parts running lubed by minute amounts of oil & mostly lubed with almost neat gas & then there's the straight gassing doesn't run for long But each to his own you are paying the repair bills


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## Little Al (May 16, 2018)

Wow said:


> New members do read OLD threads. The information is NEW to us.
> 
> The question I have that so far I've NEVER seen discussed is something mathematical that I've talked to lots of smart people about and either I'm a dummy or an over thinker.
> I'd like to post a question based upon the belief that as others join and read these old posts, someone may be able to help me with my math.
> ...


If you have a litre measure & add 25 ML 's of oil to each Litre it give 's an accurate 40/1 ratio mix


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## JTM (May 16, 2018)

Wow said:


> New members do read OLD threads. The information is NEW to us.
> 
> The question I have that so far I've NEVER seen discussed is something mathematical that I've talked to lots of smart people about and either I'm a dummy or an over thinker.
> I'd like to post a question based upon the belief that as others join and read these old posts, someone may be able to help me with my math.
> ...


Nope, as long as you mixed the 128 oz of fuel with 3.2 oz of oil you get 131.2 oz of a mixture at the ratio of 40:1.

If you are adding fuel to 3.2 oz of oil for a final volume of 128 oz then your ratio is (128 - 3.2)/3.2 = 39, so 39:1


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## JTM (May 16, 2018)

If you want a 40:1 ratio at a final volume of 128 oz then:

40x + x = 128 oz 
41x = 128 oz
x = 128/41
x = 3.12 oz (rounded)


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## tdiguy (May 16, 2018)

Here we go again.............!


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## Franny K (May 16, 2018)

Wow said:


> Now my original question?
> Probably don't make a big difference but if we split hairs, we do need to keep the net content 128 ounces, correct?


I deo not see a need to have the final volume matter. If you want to go down that road(splitting hairs) one needs to know if the end volume is really the sum of the two, often the final volume is less than the sum for liquids, like alcohol and water. A pail of sand and a pail of stone does not end up as two pails of mix.

A pound cake is a pound of various ingredients not the cake is a pound after it comes out of the oven.


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## Ash_403 (May 16, 2018)

Exactly. It's a ratio. Who cares how much the end volume is, as long as it fits in your mix can or is enough for the job.


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## Bobby Kirbos (May 16, 2018)

tdiguy said:


> Here we go again.............!


Yeah, with a necro-thread - bonus!!


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## Deleted member 117362 (May 16, 2018)

It really only matters, if you want to argue!


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## Ted Jenkins (May 16, 2018)

I have more run time with 2 smoke motors than most. Here is what I have found with many hours on many motors. 50:1 is a little lean for certain conditions, but that does not mean that a motor will seize after five minutes of operation. My personal preference is 34:1 with good oil. It is very rare that a modern engine wears out from an enormous amount of hours run. Seals wearing out from being dry get more engines down than other issues. So the mix that one chooses to run does not matter much. Whatever the mix used is it needs to be consistent along with carburetor adjustment for changing conditions. Most people use a honest mix ratio. They put a certain amount of gasoline into a container and then add oil. So as an example when I mixed 5 gallons I put close to five gallons in a container and then added a measured 18 ounces into the can thus overfilling the container slightly. There are many many other methods. And they do not matter. Come up with a consistent plan and go cutting. If you end up with 38.54:1 or 40.98:1 it does not matter as long as it is close to the same each time then you are good to go. Choose a ratio that seems the best for you and make the chips fly. Thanks


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## Wow (May 16, 2018)

Duce said:


> It really only matters, if you want to argue!


I never want to argue but I'm a very curious mind. When I was in Electronics School we took our equations to Nano, 9 zeros or Pico, 12 zeros.
However, after reading this post my conclusion is that I still don't trust 50:1 do trust 40:1 but can accept a small variation of a point either way.
I will continue to strive for consistency. I'm running 1 old Poulan and
3 old Sthils that call for 40:1 and 3 relatively new Echo's that call for 50:1, I'm going to be happy with 39:1 or 41:1 or as near to 40:1 as I can manage.
The OTHER question in my mind is how more oil effects the performance of the engine.

Once I (old and forgetful) mixed fuel and forgot I'd already added oil. I accidentally doubled the oil. Realized my mistake and tested the mix in a cheap string trimmer. The motor would not wind up. The trimmer ran thought but seemed to be running rich. Oil actually came out the exhaust.
Put fresh 40:1 ?ish in and it runs great.

Consistency in mix may be more important.
Thanks for the help


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## Overkill338 (May 16, 2018)

Has anyone ran the M-Tronic Stihls on 40:1 ? I'm all for extending my saws life. I've just always used whatever the manual said to use, which in this case is 50:1.


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## Wow (May 16, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> Has anyone ran the M-Tronic Stihls on 40:1 ? I'm all for extending my saws life. I've just always used whatever the manual said to use, which in this case is 50:1.


I've bought 4 new Echo saws In the last 3 years. When I buy I have the dealer set my saws for 40:1 and a tad rich. After a saw is broken in I've tuned the carb within the limiters. So far so good.


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## pferdfiler (May 16, 2018)

The best mix is 50/50 30wt bar n chain oil n 87 e10 cheap gas....Works best in summer like temps iffin you were your hat backwards n chew Copenhagen stuffs!!!!!!Also remove all paint from your blade in order to reduce heat!


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## Cody (May 16, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> Has anyone ran the M-Tronic Stihls on 40:1 ? I'm all for extending my saws life. I've just always used whatever the manual said to use, which in this case is 50:1.



Plenty of people have, there's a guy who ran some tests as well. If it's a stock saw, 40:1 is just fine, if they're ported, those guys like to run a few drops more oil.


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## Stihl 041S (May 16, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> Has anyone ran the M-Tronic Stihls on 40:1 ? I'm all for extending my saws life. I've just always used whatever the manual said to use, which in this case is 50:1.


Yup. No Problem


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## Stihl 041S (May 16, 2018)

Wow said:


> New members do read OLD threads. The information is NEW to us.
> 
> The question I have that so far I've NEVER seen discussed is something mathematical that I've talked to lots of smart people about and either I'm a dummy or an over thinker.
> I'd like to post a question based upon the belief that as others join and read these old posts, someone may be able to help me with my math.
> ...


The gas doesn’t dissolve the oil.
It mixes with it.
One gallon plus so many ounces of oil equals......well......one gallon and however many ounces you added.
You don’t end up with a gallon....... oh yeah.....it doesn’t matter


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## Little Al (May 17, 2018)

N1ST said:


> Ok, I gotta ask. My old Partner (s50) says to run 50:1 of partner oil or twice as much (25:1) of any other type. Sound strange?


Nope Manufacturers Bull s**tto get you to by their branded oil been going on since the beginning more or less of saws


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## Stihl 041S (May 17, 2018)

Was it Husky said to use more oil in the Australia market when killing? 
Thought I heard that


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## Little Al (May 17, 2018)

cjk said:


> From what I understand, the 100:1 Amsoil is a special synthetic oil designed for 100:1 mix. I wouldnt try mixing just any oil at 100:1.
> 
> If I was after the most power out of an engine(racing), I may try it. It should, theoretically allow more gas to get burned and produce more energy. Gas has more energy than oil. So more gas and less oil should give more power. But there must be a fine line there somewhere......
> 
> ...


In any 2 smoke motor (tuned correctly) more oil within reason =more power the longer the throttle is WO the more oil is better, read the tuning guru's books info etc. the modern trend of minute quantities of oil in the mix is purely an emissions thing & saved a saw redesign to comply, & of course if the saw "croaks" so long as it's out of warranty the manufacturer is rubbing his/her hands sale of new saw/replacement parts paid for by the owner we did a strip check on two saws used for money making logging both more or less equal hours 1 running the stated mix & 1 running 32/1 the 32/1 saw had a much better looking bottom end less wear on cyl, piston.ring etc & was the preferred saw of the 3 fallers we employ personally I would never fire up a saw with a mix north of 40/1 but prefer 32/1 But each to his own as you will get folk swearing by 50 & north to 1mix as being the way to go


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## MG porting (May 17, 2018)

Canyonbc said:


> That doesnt make sense to me.
> 
> When manufactures, like Stihl, Echo and others...who make Chain Saws, Weed Whackers. Blowers and more...and who make oil...
> 
> ...


They say 50:1 so that way the saw wears out sooner and you have to go buy a new one every year and they make a good chunk of money from you.


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## MG porting (May 17, 2018)

Little Al said:


> In any 2 smoke motor (tuned correctly) more oil within reason =more power the longer the throttle is WO the more oil is better, read the tuning guru's books info etc. the modern trend of minute quantities of oil in the mix is purely an emissions thing & saved a saw redesign to comply, & of course if the saw "croaks" so long as it's out of warranty the manufacturer is rubbing his/her hands sale of new saw/replacement parts paid for by the owner we did a strip check on two saws used for money making logging both more or less equal hours 1 running the stated mix & 1 running 32/1 the 32/1 saw had a much better looking bottom end less wear on cyl, piston.ring etc & was the preferred saw of the 3 fallers we employ personally I would never fire up a saw with a mix north of 40/1 but prefer 32/1 But each to his own as you will get folk swearing by 50 & north to 1mix as being the way to go


I like you're logic that's how I feel although I do run 40:1 most of the time but if I know my saw will be worked hard all day they both will be ran at 32:1.............


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## JTM (May 18, 2018)

I wonder about the accuracy of pumps sometimes at some stations. One I go to near my house gives me about 4.5 gallons non-E when the meter says 5.00. I’ve compared this tank at other stations and when the meter says 5 it’s right there at 5 gallons mark. I imagine however the pump is calibrated it would be biased in favor of the station. So I am not anal about it from the rip-off station and go ahead mix 40:1 based on what the meter showed.


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## Little Al (May 18, 2018)

JTM said:


> I wonder about the accuracy of pumps sometimes at some stations. One I go to near my house gives me about 4.5 gallons non-E when the meter says 5.00. I’ve compared this tank at other stations and when the meter says 5 it’s right there at 5 gallons mark. I imagine however the pump is calibrated it would be biased in favor of the station. So I am not anal about it from the rip-off station and go ahead mix 40:1 based on what the meter showed.


I would assume the US is the same as in France the Gov dept checks the amount of fuel delivered to the buyers is correct to the pump reading I'm not sure the calibrated difference allowed between readout & quantity but know it's minute & the general set up is 1gallon on the readout =1gallon delivered & if the pumps are not checked every set time period then that pump is taken out of service until calibrated & certified


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## Canyon Angler (May 18, 2018)

JTM said:


> I wonder about the accuracy of pumps sometimes at some stations. One I go to near my house gives me about 4.5 gallons non-E when the meter says 5.00.



Huh, that's interesting. FWIW, I've heard that you should buy gasoline in 5-gallon increments (exactly 5 or 10 or 15 or 20 gallons) because the Weights and Measures officials do their checks based on 5 gallons, and although the pump might be off when claiming to dispense 3.8 gallons or 16.1 gallons, it shouldn't be off with multiples of five. But, your experience suggests that this isn't true!


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## SeMoTony (May 18, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> Has anyone ran the M-Tronic Stihls on 40:1 ? I'm all for extending my saws life. I've just always used whatever the manual said to use, which in this case is 50:1.


I run 40:1 to 32:1 in my 661 which is used for milling only. That automatic adjuster keeps the saw putting out the same range of power as close as I can tell with my limited experience/sense. The oil seems to not burn thereby modifying the air to fuel ratio as seen by m-tronic sensors. Mine has a ported cylinder and muf-modded which adds another variable that is not standard from the factory as directed by the EPA. The only trouble I have is first start after ten or more days tied with a change in weather conditions that the sensers seem to need a few pulls to readjust to the new conditions. After drop start with the end of the mill on the log, restarts occur with the mill on the ladder support, generally first pull.


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## Overkill338 (May 18, 2018)

I have a question now. I just mixed up a fresh gallon of 89 no ethanol. I used one of the small bottles of Stihl Ultra to 1 gallon for 50:1. How much more oil do I need to add for 40:1? I'd rather run my saws on the safe side if you guys are sure it won't effect the M-Tronics.

Edit:I think I have it.

2.6 oz in 128oz is 50:1
3.2 oz is 40:1

I added 17 ml more, 30ml per oz.


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## MG porting (May 18, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> I have a question now. I just mixed up a fresh gallon of 89 no ethanol. I used one of the small bottles of Stihl Ultra to 1 gallon for 50:1. How much more oil do I need to add for 40:1? I'd rather run my saws on the safe side if you guys are sure it won't effect the M-Tronics.
> 
> Edit:I think I have it.
> 
> ...


Another 1/4 of a bottle or just a tad over a 1/4 of a bottle will get you close.


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## Stihl 041S (May 18, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> I have a question now. I just mixed up a fresh gallon of 89 no ethanol. I used one of the small bottles of Stihl Ultra to 1 gallon for 50:1. How much more oil do I need to add for 40:1? I'd rather run my saws on the safe side if you guys are sure it won't effect the M-Tronics.
> 
> Edit:I think I have it.
> 
> ...


It’s easier to get .8 gallon for the bottle.....


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## Overkill338 (May 18, 2018)

MG porting said:


> Another 1/4 of a bottle or just a tad over a 1/4 of a bottle will get you close.



I'm close with it. I'm probably closer to 39:1 . Should I be expecting a lot of smoke?


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## Overkill338 (May 18, 2018)

Stihl 041S said:


> It’s easier to get .8 gallon for the bottle.....



From now on I will. I'm all for preserving the life of my saws, especially my new 241 and the 461 I'm about to buy. The MS360 needs tore down anyway, but that doesn't mean I want to destroy it. Thanks to whoever started this topic originally. I would have never know 40:1 was safe.


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## Stihl 041S (May 18, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> From now on I will. I'm all for preserving the life of my saws, especially my new 241 and the 461 I'm about to buy. The MS360 needs tore down anyway, but that doesn't mean I want to destroy it. Thanks to whoever started this topic originally. I would have never know 40:1 was safe.



With all the “5gallon” container of oil just get 4 gallons.
If you buy oil by the quart......1/2 the bottle to 5 gallons.
All 40:1 and no eyeballing ounces


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## Overkill338 (May 18, 2018)

Stihl 041S said:


> With all the “5gallon” container of oil just get 4 gallons.
> If you buy oil by the quart......1/2 the bottle to 5 gallons.



Thanks man!


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## MG porting (May 18, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> I'm close with it. I'm probably closer to 39:1 . Should I be expecting a lot of smoke?


Not much more smoke.


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## Little Al (May 19, 2018)

Overkill338 said:


> I'm close with it. I'm probably closer to 39:1 . Should I be expecting a lot of smoke?


Maybe but more like a puff on first cold start up & none/very small amount when warm & on rev up more than likely you'll not notice


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## JTM (May 19, 2018)

Just curious, how much residual fuel is involved for the first few seconds after cold start? Could the lighter components of fuel be driven off after previous shutdown leaving a more concentrated heavy fraction of the mixture? I ask this because smoking at cold startup has always been there to some degree with my equipment even when ran 50:1.

I know these questions beg one to ask if I might have something better to do with my life, but I feel like crap and is all I can muster for the distraction.


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