# Using Diesel Fuel Mix w/ Chain Oil for High Sap Trees



## AlfA01 (Mar 3, 2017)

Hello Everyone!

Relatively new to the site. I'm living abroad in Greece, but was raised in Mississippi and later moved to Wyoming. I joined the US Air Force and traveled all over the globe, finally hanging my hat in Greece. 

Anyway, since 2010, I've been cutting various trees of many types and stages of dryness here in Greece. I job share with a guy that is part of the Forestry Service for our area. Here everyone recommends using a few CC's of diesel fuel with the chain oil when cutting pine and other highly resinous species of trees. Anyone have input or experience? I guess the thought process is to combat the gumming up caused by the resin. 

Cheers,
Dan


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## beastmaster (Mar 6, 2017)

Im not going to offer a opinion cuz I don't know, but a few guys I know use transmission fluid mix with bar oil for the same reason and to thin out the bar oil in cold weather.


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## grizz55chev (Mar 6, 2017)

Diesel would be ok, don't think I would use any gas mix as it may react with rubber parts of the oiler system.


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## Naylor649 (Mar 6, 2017)

Hmmm interesting.


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## beastmaster (Mar 6, 2017)

You know what does work is using a putty knife and run it down the slot in the bar after work each day.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Mar 6, 2017)

I put in a few cups of diesel in the jug of bar oil to thin it. Been doing it for several years.
No real measurement, just a second or two squeeze of the pump handle into the jug.


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## Rockjock (Mar 7, 2017)

A few CC's will not do much against the sap. I have cut many trees in the Kalamata area over the years and never had issues with sappy wood. Try adding some dish soap perhaps.


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## AlfA01 (Mar 8, 2017)

beastmaster said:


> Im not going to offer a opinion cuz I don't know, but a few guys I know use transmission fluid mix with bar oil for the same reason and to thin out the bar oil in cold weather.


A friend of mine uses old motor oil after his oil changes. Certainly don't get any cheaper than that. Locally, Oregon bar/chain oil is 4 Euros per liter. 



grizz55chev said:


> Diesel would be ok, don't think I would use any gas mix as it may react with rubber parts of the oiler system.


Definitely not a gas mix. I think gas would almost counteract the lubing properties of the oil, being that is a fairly good solvent. 



beastmaster said:


> You know what does work is using a putty knife and run it down the slot in the bar after work each day.


Good advice. I usually clean my saws up pretty good after each use. The wife LOVES it when I bring the chainsaws in the house and work on them....NOT! 



Rockjock said:


> A few CC's will not do much against the sap. I have cut many trees in the Kalamata area over the years and never had issues with sappy wood. Try adding some dish soap perhaps.


A few CC's isn't much but I don't know exactly what they are recommending as a ration of diesel to oil. Dish soap? No foaming activity from it? I know it is an awesome lubricant, but everything you put it on seems to rust rapidly.


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## anlrolfe (Mar 8, 2017)

AlfA01 said:


> A friend of mine uses old motor oil after his oil changes.



This could be a whole new thread and a slippery slope


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## Rockjock (Mar 8, 2017)

We have a lot of pine here in Canada and in Germany and after cutting the bars and chains are soaked in a solvent as well as the saw being cleaned up really well. Motor oil is a huge no no IMO. Not only are you flinging it everywhere and breathing it in it has no Tackifiers so it does not " stick " to the bar all that well. Between cuts you can always splash the bar with ouzo or τσίπουρο, ρακή just keep it clear of the muffler!


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## Raymond Eade (Jun 27, 2017)

anlrolfe said:


> This could be a whole new thread and a slippery slope


My boss / Old Boss dose the same with the oil from hes trucks and chipper only thing I would make sure to do is to at least filter it so it doesn't clog up the oiler. My dad said that the guys he worked around used to throw some kerosine on their bars to help remove the sap. me personally I havent had to worry about it so much yet so I dont know what my plan will be.


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## Modern Marvel (Jul 1, 2017)

AlfA01 said:


> Hello Everyone!
> 
> Relatively new to the site. I'm living abroad in Greece, but was raised in Mississippi and later moved to Wyoming. I joined the US Air Force and traveled all over the globe, finally hanging my hat in Greece.
> 
> ...



I've use dish soap before and I was first taught about using it when my old boss I used to work for told me about it it didn't work as well as I had expected but it does work fairly well I never had any problems with any kind of rusting issues because I always thoroughly clean and lubricate everything from the inside of the cover and bar chain clutch Etc. And it doesn't really foam up that much the bar oil with it's sticking properties seem to hold it together and not allow it to foam. But that is the only thing I have ever personally used to combat sap.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 1, 2017)

I would KILL you if you put diesel in my saw. Stupidest thing I think I ever heard besides using it to treat poison ivy!

I'll use the Ouzo though, sure its flammable but it don't stink to bad.


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## Modern Marvel (Jul 1, 2017)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> I would KILL you if you put diesel in my saw. Stupidest thing I think I ever heard besides using it to treat poison ivy!
> 
> I'll use the Ouzo though, sure its flammable but it don't stink to bad.



I as well have never heard of putting diesel fuel in bar oil they're just are better things out there to use


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## JeffGu (Jul 1, 2017)

It's actually a common practice. Deisel fuel has a low enough flash point that catching the saw on fire in unlikely... unlike using a bit of your premix. That can be rather disastrous. Another option that's a lot more environmentally sound is to just run vegetable oil instead of bar oil. I usually use whatever is the cheapest, generally canola oil. You'll have to readjust your oiler flow for it, as it doesn't have the additives to make it stick to the chain better. Adjust it to where it keeps the chain wet, but doesn't splatter everything in a two block radius. You'll go through it faster than bar oil, but it's dirt cheap and nontoxic. It tends to clog up the saw a lot less on those sappy trees.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 1, 2017)

JeffGu said:


> It's actually a common practice. Deisel fuel has a low enough flash point that catching the saw on fire in unlikely... unlike using a bit of your premix. That can be rather disastrous. Another option that's a lot more environmentally sound is to just run vegetable oil instead of bar oil. I usually use whatever is the cheapest, generally canola oil. You'll have to readjust your oiler flow for it, as it doesn't have the additives to make it stick to the chain better. Adjust it to where it keeps the chain wet, but doesn't splatter everything in a two block radius. You'll go through it faster than bar oil, but it's dirt cheap and nontoxic. It tends to clog up the saw a lot less on those sappy trees.




I wouldn't like the smell and it would get on everything and everywhere and it all would smell like diesel. But if you like the smell of diesel then its fine.


I still would rather the Ouzo.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 1, 2017)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> I would KILL you if you put diesel in my saw. Stupidest thing I think I ever heard besides using it to treat poison ivy!
> 
> I'll use the Ouzo though, sure its flammable but it don't stink to bad.



What makes you say that? 

We use it to make winter grade bar oil. Just a few cups mixed in a gallon. It just thins it down, kind of the same as thinning paint with acetone.


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## JeffGu (Jul 1, 2017)

Or watering down whiskey with some soda pop crap...


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## Modern Marvel (Jul 2, 2017)

JeffGu said:


> It's actually a common practice. Deisel fuel has a low enough flash point that catching the saw on fire in unlikely... unlike using a bit of your premix. That can be rather disastrous. Another option that's a lot more environmentally sound is to just run vegetable oil instead of bar oil. I usually use whatever is the cheapest, generally canola oil. You'll have to readjust your oiler flow for it, as it doesn't have the additives to make it stick to the chain better. Adjust it to where it keeps the chain wet, but doesn't splatter everything in a two block radius. You'll go through it faster than bar oil, but it's dirt cheap and nontoxic. It tends to clog up the saw a lot less on those sappy trees.



What about using olive oil


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## bikemike (Jul 2, 2017)

Turn up your oiler or look up the oiler modd. If sticky icky sap is the issue then clean ur saw out daily bar, cooling system carb and filters. I clean my personal saws every day with a air hose and brake clean. A clean n cool running saw is a happy saw


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## Modern Marvel (Jul 2, 2017)

bikemike said:


> Turn up your oiler or look up the oiler modd. If sticky icky sap is the issue then clean ur saw out daily bar, cooling system carb and filters. I clean my personal saws every day with a air hose and brake clean. A clean n cool running saw is a happy saw



I hear that. I clean mine very thoroughly after each use and if I've use mine the whole day I take the whole thing apart to clean it of course I'm not talking about me taking apart the engine just separating the engine from the body and cleaning it even if I'm not cutting sappy trees


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## jomoco (Jul 2, 2017)

Diesel's a great tree sap solvent, and quite a few PNW old school loggers I've met and worked for store their long chains that have been sappified in 25 gallon buckets of diesel fuel to desappify them before sharpening on a Silvey chain grinder.

Never heard of actually cuttin bar oil viscosity down with it, but it obviously works well.

My problem runnin long bars n chains in bone dry dead wood's the oiler not keepin up!

Why Stihl did away with manual oilers on their big saws is a mystery.

I'll take an 084 over an 088 all day long thank you very much!

Jomoco


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## Modern Marvel (Jul 2, 2017)

jomoco said:


> Diesel's a great tree sap solvent, and quite a few PNW old school loggers I've met and worked for store their long chains that have been sappified in 25 gallon buckets of diesel fuel to desappify them before sharpening on a Silvey chain grinder.
> 
> Never heard of actually cuttin bar oil viscosity down with it, but it obviously works well.
> 
> ...



I just picked up a Johnny red 2094 with a 24 inch bar on it doesn't look like it's getting much oil like it should I haven't had a chance to do much research on it yet but are those automated Oilers or manual Oilers


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## jomoco (Jul 2, 2017)

Sorry MM, I've never ran a Jonsereds, so I don't know.

I miss my 084's manual oiler somethin fierce though!

I've been reduced to just dumpin oil onto the bar n chain on long dead euc a few times runnin my 880 with a six foot bar.

It ain't right, and Stihl shoulda known better!

Jomoco


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## Modern Marvel (Jul 2, 2017)

jomoco said:


> Sorry MM, I've never ran a Jonsereds, so I don't know.
> 
> I miss my 084's manual oiler somethin fierce though!
> 
> ...


Yeah they should have known better when it came to string trimmers to and not have put that garbage 4 stroked hybrid line out. I've never run an 84 before I have ran the 88 I did like it but I was cutting Greenwood so I didn't notice much difference as far as the oiling goes. I have a 48 inch bar for the Johnny red but I don't have a chain for it but quite a few other of my saws I have had to dump oil down the cut or on the bar and chain
In dry wood myself so I understand your aggravation


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## jomoco (Jul 2, 2017)

A new oil pump n drive gear's never a bad idea on older saws that ain't puttin out IME.

Gotta have a piston stop to do it, and remember the clutch is reverse threaded.

Good luck mate.

Jomoco


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 3, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> What makes you say that?
> 
> We use it to make winter grade bar oil. Just a few cups mixed in a gallon. It just thins it down, kind of the same as thinning paint with acetone.



I don't like the smell of diesel is all.

Years ago they filled up one of my saws with used diesel motor oil, when I got hot so did it and the smell was choking me. The next morning I took a dump and it smelled like old nasty diesel motor oil.


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## grizz55chev (Jul 3, 2017)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> I don't like the smell of diesel is all.
> 
> Years ago they filled up one of my saws with used diesel motor oil, when I got hot so did it and the smell was choking me. The next morning I took a dump and it smelled like old nasty diesel motor oil.


TMI!


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 3, 2017)

grizz55chev said:


> TMI!




Not really, you should know what is happening to all the stuff we come in contact with.

A nice gentle mist of raw diesel oil? MMMMMM GOOD!



But I do understand you might need something to cut the resin in a big saw on log after log.

I really start to feel woozy when I am working hard and breathing in a lot of nasty stuff but many of my friends have WD 40 air fresheners.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 3, 2017)

I would use low odor mineral spirits, trans fluid or something that don't add to much more to the stinks coming off the saw. 

I hate big stump cuts, man, that exhaust gets spicy and yer face is right there, gotta to learn to breathe in between strokes like a swimmer.


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## JeffGu (Jul 3, 2017)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> ...learn to breathe in between strokes...



Umm... ok... so_ that's_ your secret technique, then!


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## jomoco (Jul 3, 2017)

Come on Doc!

Get a groundie with a blower to feed clean air to yu while yur cuttin!

What a rookie!

Jomoco


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 3, 2017)

Dunno, I don't smell it.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 3, 2017)

jomoco said:


> Come on Doc!
> 
> Get a groundie with a blower to feed clean air to yu while yur cuttin!
> 
> ...




That's protocol when dealing with a hornet's nest.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 3, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Dunno, I don't smell it.



You must be severely nose blind or dead! Quick! Check yer pulse!


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## jomoco (Jul 3, 2017)

Yu ain't gotta bee suit Either Doc?

How long yu been climbin?

Ever watch flowers for algernon?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062794/

Gotta be smarter than the critters around yu mate!

Jomoco


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 3, 2017)

jomoco said:


> Yu ain't gotta bee suit Either Doc?
> 
> How long yu been climbin?
> 
> ...



I live in close proximity to a nuclear reactor and an army navy surplus store so I have more than just a little old bee suit... and evacuation plans.

Mostly just a rain suit and a face net is all that's needed. They go fer the head.

If I get ambushed I will holler to get a blower going post haste for after I get down, or when dealing with a known target its good to have a man on the blower whilst you be feeding the sumbitch into DA CHIPPAH!.


One of the worst smells in the business is a dryer vent, especially in winter. Walking by one of those can floor me after working up a sweat and breathing hard.


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## jomoco (Jul 3, 2017)

So how long yu been at this game Doc?

Do yu consider yurself a journeyman arborist yet?

Took me about 40 years to realize n accept that trees are much better off without us around period!

Keepin a well stocked medkits the mark of a pro too yu know!

Jomoco


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 3, 2017)

jomoco said:


> So how long yu been at this game Doc?
> 
> Do yu consider yurself a journeyman arborist yet?
> 
> ...



Its just been a "hobby" of mine since 1991 so I don't take it very seriously because what it took you 40 years to realize I already knew after my first day!

I just have eye wash and sanitary napkins in the med kit and know where the ER's are. I wouldn't do this **** a whole lot if the weren't a lot of hospitals close by.


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## jomoco (Jul 3, 2017)

No super glue Doc?

No duct tape n percs?

What kinda doc are yu anyways?

Got a doctorate in minimalist philosophy, eh mate?

Jomoco


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 3, 2017)

jomoco said:


> No super glue Doc?
> 
> No duct tape n percs?
> 
> ...



No, I got lots and lots of glues and tape and, uh, such. LOTS!


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 3, 2017)

But nothing beats an air conditioned ER with a diluaded drip and pretty nurse. Hell, after the drip it don't even matter if she's pretty... much less a she.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 3, 2017)

Anyway:

With my experience with gummed up things I would probably buy a 3 dollar bottle of mineral spirits if things got bad enough. ****! Sometimes I can't let go of the saw!

You can do a lot with mineral spirits. You can also do a lot with toluene.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 3, 2017)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> You must be severely nose blind or dead! Quick! Check yer pulse!



Oh I can smell diesel, just not in the bar oil mix.


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## Gologit (Jul 4, 2017)

Diesel works well for thinning bar oil. Just don't use too much. If you don't have any diesel hydraulic oil will work. Again, it doesn't take much.
Don't put used motor oil in anything.


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## Modern Marvel (Jul 5, 2017)

Had 4 lots to clear today and most of the trees that the bobcat couldn't take down were all pine so I had quite a bit of sap cutting to do. At lunch, the Bobcat operator told me about how he uses power steering fluid a little bit in his saw with his normal fill-up of bar oil interesting thought didn't really inquire about it anymore after it got me thinking he's on the Bobcat all day and I'm the one felling the trees maybe I'll give it a shot tomorrow


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Jul 10, 2017)

Echo has a few models with manual oilers.


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