# what is the average day for a logger



## vince (Nov 12, 2005)

I am just curious what is your average day like as a logger in the back 40. like do you guys live in a camp or do you go home every night. do you guys just cut the trees or do you opperate the vehicles to move them.


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## John Ellison (Nov 12, 2005)

Vince, I dont know about Canada, but I dont think there are any more logging camps in the lower 48. There are still log camps in southeast Alaska. Most of them are float camps. Built on log floats so they can be moved from job to job with a tug boat. Most of the men stay in bunkhouses and eat in the cookhouse but there are usually a few "home guards" who have their family with them and stay in separate housing. I guess you could say they go home at night.
I stayed in camps a lot when I was single, then after I got married we bought a liveaboard boat and was able to follow the work with our home.
A lot of timber is still cut with chainsaws but more and more is being cut with machines.

John


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## fishhuntcutwood (Nov 12, 2005)

It also depends on how large a scale you work on. If you're a gypo, you wake up, fall timber, buck it, yard it, load it, haul it. Then go home at night to the wife and kids. If you work for a logging company, you'll often have your job that you do, be it falling, bucking/limbing, yarding, etc. Alot of guys can do pretty much anything in a logging operation, so it may depend on what needs done that day. Everyone I know around here does their job and goes home at night.

Jeff


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## Newfie (Nov 13, 2005)

There are still a couple of very small logging camps in Northern New Hampshire & Maine that I know of. Not more than 20 man operations. The guys usually go home on the weekends.

This is probably the wrong place to ask anyway. The loggers here spend more time in mental masturbation ( probably not so mental for some of them) than cutting trees.


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## vince (Nov 13, 2005)

K i guess i focused to much attention on where you guys sleep at night. I was wondering like is it like a regular 9-5 job. You show up in the morning and cut tree. and then do you guys have coffee or do you wait till lunch to stop. Also pardon my ignorance but could you explain the jobs. For instance what is yarding. How do I become a logger. I know i need to move east or west but what qualities do you need to do this job.


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## smokechase II (Nov 13, 2005)

Loggers actually have more of a 5am-9pm job, not 9-5.
This guy down by La Pine just can't quit. Takes his family out on Sundays for a fun relaxing day of laying out strips/units. One day he started cutting next to a subdivision called Wild River at something like 3:30am. Awesome. Those folks with the nice homes on a river in paradise called the county cops who after a second visit figured out that there weren't any construction hour type rules for noise that applied to USFS lands next to homes.
In the old days, you'd get up, go to work at what you thought was a sensible hour and meet the second load of logs coming down the hill. Cheeezz.
We had an incidence of a log truck passing an ambulance that was on a run.
You can call a logger most anything you want, but you can't call em lazy.


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## Billy_Bob (Nov 13, 2005)

Around here you start out as a "choker setter". It takes a lot of time, luck, and being at the right place at the right time to become an "equipment operator". I have a friend who is a "rigging slinger" and another who is a "forwarder" operator.

One of my friends will get up about 4am, then drive to work with the other guys in a "crummy". It takes two hours to get to work, then to get home. Some of these guys will sometimes stop off at my place and play pool on my table after work until their wifes (war department) tracks them down and demands they get home. (I tell them they are already in trouble, so staying longer will not matter!)

In the summer around here, due to fire regulations, loggers can only work until 1pm sometimes. Other times they can't do anything which will cause a spark. Search for "Industrial Fire Precaution Level" (IFPL).

Here are some links to learn a little about logging. Also some of the "words/terms" used. Search google.com for specific terms you are interested in learning about. Use quotes for two or more words when searching. Like...
"rigging slinger".

Choker Setter...
http://stepfour.com/jobs/921687014.htm

Rigging Slinger...
http://www.careerplanner.com/DOT-Job-Descriptions/RIGGING-SLINGER.cfm

Associated Oregon Loggers...
http://www.oregonloggers.org

Logger Terms ...
http://www.arts.wa.gov/progFA/woodworks/faWoodworks7.html

TIMBER HARVESTING...
http://www.olympicpeninsulafishing.com/htdocs/timber_harvesting.htm

Article...
http://www.forestnet.com/timberwest/archives/May_01/lucky.htm

Article...
http://www.panelworldmag.com/vserve...4&IssueKey=389&SectionKey=152&ArticleKey=4723

Industrial Fire Precaution Levels...
http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/willamette/partnersites/eicc/ifpl.html

Current Industrial Fire Precaution Level for my area...
http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/willamette/partnersites/eicc/


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## fishhuntcutwood (Nov 13, 2005)

Yarding is basically hauling the logs out of the property and onto the deck or the landing where they're prepared to be loaded.

As far as becoming a logger, call a logging company and start at the beginning, like Billy Bob said, likely as a choke setter. A friend of mine was a heavy equip. mechanic, which is where he started. He worked on the shovels and skidders and went from there.

Jeff


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## JimL (Nov 13, 2005)

when I worked in the woods, we had 1 guy skidding and 2 fallers, one guy at the landing bucking and loading trucks. We usually worked from the crack of dawn 5am till 6-7pm, some days were shorter, if it was real hot we would cut our 10-12K bdf and go home. that was usually a goal to hit 10k every day as a faller. 

depended on the ground we were on also. some ruff ground would only net us 6-8k bdf a day.


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## Billy_Bob (Nov 13, 2005)

My logger friend came over to play pool and I asked him to say what a typical day for him is, here is what he said...

Hi;

I'm a rigging slinger. I get up at 3:30 am every morning, then leave my house at 4:15 am. Then pick up two other guys in the crummy (old van). Then get to the job around 6:30 am.

Then I put my calks (boots) on, grab my bugs (Talkie Tooter), hard hat, and gloves. Usually start work around 7:00 am.

Then we pull 20 ft. chokers around, set them on logs, then pull the hook over, then put eyes of choker on hook. Then I activate the carriage with the bugs. Then you blow three to the yarder which is a go ahead whistle. Then the turn is pulled up to the carriage. We release the carriage. Then I blow two to the yarder (which is a hup ho [makes it go really fast]) and the turn goes to the landing. Then chaser unbales chokers, then they send us the carriage back and we do it all over again for 8 hours.

This is just a quick overview. There is a lot more stuff which goes on. So far as lunch, we eat on the fly - one guy will sit out while the other is working. No breaks, 8 hours straight except for lunch. (I don't typically get a lunch - I'll snack, but don't have time to sit down and eat.) Typically you would start out as a choker setter as I did. Most people want experienced choker setters, but sometimes you can get lucky and find someone who is willing to train a guy. 

Well I got to go kick Billy Bob's you know what at pool. Stay out of the Bite! (All loggers say this to each other - It means to stay away from the moving line.)


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## vince (Nov 13, 2005)

sounds like a lot of no sleep and not eating. I would have a tough time with both of those aspects. but what about fallers or is timber knocked down solely by machines now


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## fishhuntcutwood (Nov 13, 2005)

Here where I'm at it's still mostly done by hand. The terrain and diameter dictate it so. Back East, I understand it's common.

My buddy Pat used to work timber, and he always says, "Well, at least every day you get a picnic...rain or shine."

Jeff


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## Sizzle-Chest (Nov 13, 2005)

vince said:


> sounds like a lot of no sleep and not eating. I would have a tough time with both of those aspects. but what about fallers or is timber knocked down solely by machines now



as far as I know, fallers dont like to be called loggers. fallers come in and cut a strip and go on to the next. then loggers come in to haul out the logs. and unless you got flat land and small diameter trees (which is pretty much never the case over here in oregon), fallers do all the cutting


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## Gypo Logger (Nov 13, 2005)

I had a job in the great North Woods, working as a cook for a spell.
I never did like it all that much and one day the axe just fell.
So I drifted down to New Orleans where sometimes I was employed, working for awhile on a fishing boat just out side of Delacroix.
BD


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## Sizzle-Chest (Nov 13, 2005)

Gypo Logger said:


> I had a job in the great North Woods, working as a cook for a spell.
> I never did like it all that much and one day the axe just fell.
> So I drifted down to New Orleans where sometimes I was employed, working for awhile on a fishing boat just out side of Delacroix.
> DD



She was workin' in a topless place
And I stopped in for a beer,
I just kept lookin' at the "side of her face"
In the spotlight so clear.


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## smokechase II (Nov 13, 2005)

Fallers are also sometimes are referred to as cutters.
The other guys cutting in the woods are referred to as knot bumpers up at the landing.
They're new guys who get jokes played on them.
Loggers are approaching the worst people in the world for messing with their buddy.
My experience is that fellers don't mind being called loggers. Just don't call them late for dinner. They are proud of being fellers, but they only look a little ways down on their fellow woods workers.
I actually liked the movie, "Sometimes a Great Notion - (Never give a inch)".
Yea Kesey's book was better, but Fonda, Newman, et al did a fine job of capturing that time. Sorry if I made anyone mad. Please don't ban me for liking a logging movie.


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## Sizzle-Chest (Nov 13, 2005)

smokechase II said:


> Fallers are also sometimes are referred to as cutters.
> The other guys cutting in the woods are referred to as knot bumpers up at the landing.
> They're new guys who get jokes played on them.
> Loggers are approaching the worst people in the world for messing with their buddy.
> ...



My friends dad did the cutting for that movie. Had to make that one tree barber chair! He was also in that beach football scene. My favorite part is when that blond guy is trapped under the log with the rising tide and newman has to give him mouth to mouth underwater, but the blonde guy starts laughing cuz he thinks its like kissing another guy and dies. Sad, but funny.


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## Gypo Logger (Nov 13, 2005)

Sizzle-Chest said:


> She was workin' in a topless place
> And I stopped in for a beer,
> I just kept lookin' at the "side of her face"
> In the spotlight so clear.



Then you think of the stake that you squandered,
And the plans that you congured before,
So you make them again in the very same way,
You'll head into town with your hard earned pay,
But you know in your heart you'll be King for a day,
Then come back to the woods once more.
Robert E. Swanson 1943


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## vince (Nov 13, 2005)

never heard of that movie how old is it. would it make a good movie for out at the cabin. And also will my girlfriend never let me go cutting if she see's the movie


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## vince (Nov 13, 2005)

what kind of training do you need to become a feller


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## Gypo Logger (Nov 13, 2005)

I think it just evolves. You either are a victim of circumstance or you simply fall into it. If it runs in the family it's an easier thing if your so inclined.
Since most of the good timber is gone and logging has become very mechanical, fallers are becoming more and more scarce.
John


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## Sizzle-Chest (Nov 13, 2005)

Gypo Logger said:


> Then you think of the stake that you squandered,
> And the plans that you congured before,
> So you make them again in the very same way,
> You'll head into town with your hard earned pay,
> ...



"Wishful thinkin and wiskey drinkin is gonna be the death of me yet, 
Just how much further in the hole can one poor ol gypo get
If it weren't Monday, I'd swear it was, ain't nothn gone right since we started
We've been fightin hang ups all day long, and the haulback: she just parted"
Michael J Barker


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## Billy_Bob (Nov 13, 2005)

Some of what my friend said above might be regional terminology. So for those from other areas, I'll "translate" as best I can. Correct me if I am wrong or add to this as needed...

Bug or Talkie Tooter - A remote control device worn on your belt which causes a horn on the yarder to "toot" and operates the yarder.
http://www.talkietooter.ca

Choker - http://www.vannattabros.com/iron39.html

Blow three to the yarder - Three "Toots".

Turn - Logs

Blow two to the yarder - Two "Toots".

Hup ho - Yarder reels in cables fast - logs go up the hill fast.

Stay out of the Bite - The yarder cable can be down on the ground but not directly in line with the top and bottom portion of the yarder. So when the cable is reeled in, the cable will move "sideways" at first. If you are standing on the side toward which it will move (the "bite"), the cable could injure you. Thus stay out of that area or "Stay out of the Bite". So this is something they say when finishing a conversation with someone - Like "take care", "have a good day", etc.

And so far as not taking time to eat lunch, he said they would rather snack as they work and get home a half hour early.


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## Billy_Bob (Nov 14, 2005)

For training to become a feller, reading the following book would be a good start...

Book: "Professional Timber Falling" By Douglas Dent
http://onlinestore.forestindustry.com/cgi-bin/baileys/catch.html?product=92

Then the Associated Oregon Loggers web site has a listing of various classes and training for loggers...

http://www.oregonloggers.org/opl-fp_calendar.htm
and...
http://www.oregonloggers.org/opl_calendar.htm

And Oregon OSHA has online training. The training for PPE would probably be a feather in your cap...

Oregon OSHA online PPE Training...
http://www.cbs.state.or.us/external/osha/educate/training/pages/203outline.html
Other online training...
http://www.cbs.state.or.us/external/osha/educate/training/pages/courses.html

You may need to be a member of Associated Oregon Loggers to take some of the above classes. I don't know if you need to be working for a logging company or not. I would think taking some of these classes might be a sneaky way to get a logging job though. You would be taking the classes with other loggers, and these people would probably be the ones doing the hiring since some of these classes have to do with management stuff.


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## Billy_Bob (Nov 14, 2005)

Also the Associated Oregon Loggers web site has an employment listing page here...

http://www.oregonloggers.org/jobs.htm


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## GASoline71 (Nov 14, 2005)

vince, make sure you *really* want to be a logger before you leap into it. I set chokers for 2 summers back in the 80's and it was my first and last time i would do that job. I never was a faller, but I was a bucker for part of one summer. There are still quite a few fallers out here in the Pacific Northwest. Mechanized logging is slowly taking over all aspects of the trade, but it is still almost impossible to get a feller/buncher on an 70-80 degree sidehill. Most feller/bunchers have articulated cabs, but there is a limit to what they can do. 

Gary


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## StIhL MaGnUm (Nov 14, 2005)

My average day starts at about 3:30 am get up make coffee , grab a bite to eat and head to the truck around 4 . Go get another coffee on the way to the woodlot , hang around till about 10 minutes of 6 sharpening saws , fueling up skidder , greasing etc .. Then around 6:30 start pulling wood to the slasher , moving logs on landing , grabbin slash to haul back into the woods , to break up the day fell some oversize timber , top , limb and thats about it .. Eat lunch at 12 and do it all over till 3:30pm and shutdown pack up and head home . Unless it's a big job over 200 acres me and the other skidder operator will go in and start pulling wood around 2 am as long as there are no nearby neighbors to complain ..


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## John Ellison (Nov 15, 2005)

Billy_Bob said:


> Some of what my friend said above might be regional terminology. So for those from other areas, I'll "translate" as best I can. Correct me if I am wrong or add to this as needed...
> 
> Bug or Talkie Tooter - A remote control device worn on your belt which causes a horn on the yarder to "toot" and operates the yarder.
> http://www.talkietooter.ca
> ...


Three toots is a signal to go ahead on the main line, this pulls the turn towards the landing.
Two...go ahead on the haulback, skins the rigging back out into the brush
Four...slack the main line
Two and four...slack the haulback
Three and three ...go ahead easy
Two and two...skin er back easy
Three and one...ahead on haywire
Three and four...slack the haywire
There are lots more and combinations of them. At least one x-rated one.
Ask your friend if they ever get in a bad steep rocky area , and the whistles wont work or skip?

John


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## vince (Nov 15, 2005)

GASoline71 said:


> vince, make sure you *really* want to be a logger before you leap into it. I set chokers for 2 summers back in the 80's and it was my first and last time i would do that job. I never was a faller, but I was a bucker for part of one summer. There are still quite a few fallers out here in the Pacific Northwest. Mechanized logging is slowly taking over all aspects of the trade, but it is still almost impossible to get a feller/buncher on an 70-80 degree sidehill. Most feller/bunchers have articulated cabs, but there is a limit to what they can do.
> 
> Gary



I am not sure i want to be a logger but i might like being a feller. I don't know i do know that i like to run around the bush with my chainsaw and cut up trees. That industry sounds like long days and a lot of hard work. I like electrical trade, its been good to me. but i do wish that i could be out in the bush away from the city life and running a big saw through big timber


I guess i gotta win the lottery.


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## Billy_Bob (Nov 15, 2005)

John Ellison said:


> ...
> Three and four...slack the haywire
> There are lots more and combinations of them. At least one x-rated one.
> 
> Ask your friend if they ever get in a bad steep rocky area , and the whistles wont work or skip?



So far as the tooter remote not working, my friend says it is common for it to not work in areas with rocks. He says; "Yea that happens a lot where there's rocks." (And of course lots of hills around here...)

He also said something about "One short and One long toot" any idea what that could be?


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## fishhuntcutwood (Nov 16, 2005)

vince said:


> ...but i might like being a feller. I don't know i do know that i like to run around the bush with my chainsaw and cut up trees.



Be careful what you wish for. As soon as your hobby becomes a job, it isn't so much fun anymore. I flyfish and tie flies as a hobby of mine. I love it. But I have guided clients, and I have tied professionally as well. It's a whole different ball game. It's different when you have to do these things, and can't simply just do it because you want to.

I wish you luck in what you want to do, but remember running around with a chainsaw in the bush on your own time is a lot more fun than being made to cut and work in the rain on a 12 hour day for a boss you don't like while you've got blisters on both feet and your back hurts. Just a thought.

Jeff


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## Ryan Willock (Nov 16, 2005)

Vince, going push push in the bush is a whole lot different than reacreational cutting. There are trees every day that I don't want to cut for various reasons but that I MUST cut! Yesterday I cut a 20'' maple and the top whiped out of it as is was going over and cameback at me and almost got me. I had already gotten as far away from it as possible but I was at the bottom of a gully in the mountian side so there was nowhere for me to go!  My day starts at 5am I leave the house at 5:30 stop for breakfast, pickup one of the guys (his house is on the way to where we are working) meet the rest of the guys at the landing at 6:30 and start warming up equipment, I'm packing my saw and falling equipment into the woods and I start cutting timber to get ahead of the skidder. Lunch is at 12, I go back to the landing get another 1 1/2 gallons of saw gas and bar oil eat lunch and head back to the cut and continue droping limbing and topping trees for the skidder. All of my guys (4 of us total) can do any of the jobs on a logging job but I do almost all of the cutting. I also do most of the road building with the dozer. We switch out jobs every so often so that everyone stays up on the cross training and to prevent getting burned out doing one thing. This is a pic of a 3'dbh poplar that I had to climb 40' into and put a cable in it to pull it away from the loader as it had back lean and back weight plus it was a little windy but we were moving the landing the next day so it had to be cut. I put a 5/8ths steel cable in it (mainline off the skidder) with a 9/16ths choker. Oh, by the way that mainline weighs a pound per foot as it is 3/4 inch swaged down to 5/8ths! Here's also a pic of a big red oak that I cut the same day, we got 2 clear 14's out of it and two tens!


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## vince (Nov 17, 2005)

wow that tree looks like a real beauty. Its a shame that it had to go but i am sure it will make nice hardwood flooring


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## Sizzle-Chest (Nov 17, 2005)

Ryan Willock said:


> Oh, by the way that mainline weighs a pound per foot as it is 3/4 inch swaged down to 5/8ths! Here's also a pic of a big red oak that I cut the same day, we got 2 clear 14's out of it and two tens!



have you read Jerry Beranek's "High Climbers and Timber Fallers", he talks a lot about the weight of the rigging dragging it up 100ft. Seems pretty hardcore, well done man!


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## Ryan Willock (Nov 21, 2005)

Sizzle, yes I have that book. I've set quite a bit of rigging for myself and other loggers here in the mountians. Its not as intensive as what Jerry has done but its tough enough. Vince, only the #1 common and down will wind up as flooring that fas and selects will go to make furniture.


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## Pacific (Nov 24, 2005)

The logging operations here have two divisions the road building crew all they do is build roads into the cut blocks etc. The road building crew usually consists of 2-4 40 ton excavators a rock drilling rig and 2 30 ton Volvo rock trucks to haul material. They usually build couple kilometers of road per cut block they install culverts and bridges. Some places take a month of road building to get into them. 

While the road builders are working the falling crew is dropping trees in the cut block they will fall a supply of wood to keep the production crew busy but this is after the road builders are done in the one area. 

The production crew consists of the hoe chuckers which are log loaders or excavators with high rise cabs and grapples. They walk into the cut blocks with the machines and start moving the wood from the block up to the road side. If the terrain is too steep then the grapple yarder is used

www.rbauction.com/equipment_images/2005231/large/1264861_1.jpg

Here is a hoe chucking machine 
www.rbauction.com/equipment_images/2005231/large/1272216_1.jpg

Feller Bunchers are used if the terrian isn't too steep most wood here is felled by hand a faller with a 066 Magnum and 32" bar.

Once the wood is chucked to the side of the road it gets loaded onto a truck like one of these.
www.rbauction.com/equipment_images/2005231/large/1272201_1.jpg


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## Pacific (Nov 24, 2005)

To add to my other post the wood goes down to a log dump where they throw bundle wire around the logs on the truck to bundle them all together then the logs get pushed off the truck down a set of slides into the water.

In the production crew hoe chucking is the fastest way of getting the wood out of the bush the old cable systems are too slow. After the logs are chucked the limbs and brush is piled up as high as the excavator can reach usually 20' tall piles. Its left to dry then burned after the site has been logged a few months to 6 months later the reforestation crew goes in and replants the area.

Here in Canada the land that is logged is crown land ie its owned by the gov't after its logged it MUST BE reforested. Some of the roads are deactivated so the road builders go in and take out the road they built and put it back to the way it was before or close to it.

As for getting a job as a logger its a tough go especially if you don't have any experience. If you are a green horn usually you start out as the gofer you help out the production crew or you help out the road builders. From there you move up to a machine operator chucking logs or running the skidder.

It all depends on your experience and skill and how fast you learn.

As for the fallers its a familly thing usually if you are a faller your dad was a faller or is a faller and generations before it. Falling is a past down skill its not something you learn in a day it takes years of experience. The faller is one of the most dangerous jobs in logging. 

Most logging operations start at day break work a 10 hour day some places they go around here is a 1 to 2 hour boat ride each way. The loggers around here stop for lunch they also stop for coffee they are not union outfits either.


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## tylermckee (Dec 11, 2005)

I wouldnt mind getting in on the road building portion of that. I'm an equipment operator, do mostly residential housing. digging for foundations, backfills, little bit of clearing, etc. I drive around on highways, places where they plasted and dug a road through a mountain and i always think about how cool it would have been to get in on building it.


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## Scott_S (Dec 13, 2005)

Pacific, I see a lot of cat 330 roadbuilders for sale out your way but not too many 40 tons. What make is prefered? I know that T-Mar has some nice 40 ton roadbuilders. Also don't the roadbuiling crews have any dozers? Around here most roadbuilding is done by a excavator/dozer team. A 20 ton excavator is about the biggest you'll see in the woods here.


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