# drying the milled wood



## darkstar (Apr 23, 2006)

Ok i got 4 inch by 12 inch by 14 foot long cut oak logs from a totaly dead white oak ,we cut the other day . My friend sawed them up using a chainsaw powered bandsaw . Now im wondering how im gonna keep these babies from spliting as they dry.Any ideas ???


----------



## oldsaw (Apr 23, 2006)

If you want to do it the "real" way, get some Anchorseal and cover the ends with it. If you aren't where any is available at the moment, paint them with some latex paint.

Mark


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Apr 23, 2006)

I'm understanding your lumber is 4" thick. In that case it will be hard to completely keep them from checking. Seal the ends ASAP. If you have enough to make a good stack, make sure your stickers start about an inch or two from the ends, less than 2' on center in between and aligned vertically throughout the stack. Weight the top of the stack (you can't put too much), especially the ends.


----------



## Finnbear (Apr 24, 2006)

What kind of chainsaw powered bandsaw? Is it a RipSaw or some other brand or a homebrew unit?
Finnbear



darkstar said:


> Ok i got 4 inch by 12 inch by 14 foot long cut oak logs from a totaly dead white oak ,we cut the other day . My friend sawed them up using a chainsaw powered bandsaw . Now im wondering how im gonna keep these babies from spliting as they dry.Any ideas ???


----------



## coveredinsap (Apr 25, 2006)

My experience over the course of many years as a carpenter is that painting the ends is somewhat overrated, as is 'stickers' between lumber initially (other than to keep it up off of the ground). It appears that the biggest mistake that many people make is to let the lumber dry too quickly in loosely stickered stacks, resulting in split, bowed and twisted lumber.
The most important thing from what I've seen over the years is to keep the lumber in a large, heavy,tight stack whereby it is prevented from moving by its neighboring lumber in the stack, thereby keeping it straight as it sits, (particularly for standing dead lumber where there is not so much of a need to dry it...such as what you appear to have) and prevented from drying out too fast. While you may lose a few top and/or side boards in the stack, the majority of the stack should remain in good condition, and above all....don't stack lumber to dry in the sun.

If you want to sticker it, then sticker it in a nice shady spot in a big wide stack with only horizontal airspace between boards, not loosely stacked so that the boards can move side-to-side. You may also wish to keep it covered with a tarp to help protect it from drying out too fast.

A little mold on lumber is much preferable to a stack of split, bowed and twisted boards with no mold, in my opinion.


----------



## Finnbear (Apr 25, 2006)

Properly stacking and stickering lumber is the MOST important step (after sawing) in producing quality lumber. While moldy boards may be acceptable for construction lumber it is not acceptable for finish lumber since the mold will stain the boards and ruin the lumber for finish uses (unless it will be painted). End sealant should be applied as soon as the log is cut to length since they will develop end splits inside of 24 hours without it. Dried and milled Cherry fetches nearly $10/board foot so losing 6" off each end of a single 1x6 can cost you $5. At that rate it only takes a dozen boards to pay for a 5 gallon bucket of wax based end sealant. Split, bowed, and twisted lumber comes from not stacking and stickering and weighting the pile properly. Lumber should be stacked on a nearly perfectly flat pallet with stickers across the width of the board spaced every 16 inches along its length. Stickers should be 4/4 material, uniform thickness, straight, and dry. Green stickers often stain boards with black stripes that are deep enough that they do not come off completely when the boards are planed. There should be about one inch spacing between each board. The stack should be no more than 4 feet in width to ensure the middle boards receive adequate airflow. The stickers in each layer should be directly above the stickers in the previous layer so the boards do not get waves in them. The stack can be as long as the boards you are drying and as tall as you can comfortably stack them (usually about 6ft). The top layer needs to be stickered and then covered with a layer of plywood or roof tin or some other suitable material to keep the weather off with some overhang of the roof material being a good idea. The top of the stack should then be weighted over each column of stickers length with cement blocks or something heavy to keep the upper layers flat. The entire stack should be positioned somewhere that receives decent airflow and is not in direct sunlight or it should be under roof in an open air shed. I use an open-sided drying shed which will hold 6 stacks of lumber with 800-1000 bf per stack. Lumber dried in this manner tends to be very stable when finish dried. If the finish lumber will be used indoors then it should be brought indoors and re-stacked and stickered for about a month before use. This will allow it to further dry and acclimate itself to the temp and humidity it will experience in its finished state. I use a rack in my shop that holds about 1000 board feet and keep adding wood from the outdoor shed as I use what is in the rack. There are some good publications on lumber drying and if you look around enough you can find many of them for little or no cost.
Finnbear


----------



## Newfie (Apr 25, 2006)

Way to stick to the facts Finnbear. Excellent info, no doubt based on much experience doing it the right way.


----------



## darkstar (Apr 26, 2006)

*Thanx*

WOW that really helps. I did seal the lumber imm. after milling and have stacked and stickered it in a cool space under a huge oak tree . I covered it with pressure treated plywood and weighted the ply with about 6 concrete blocks . My stickers are about 1.5 inches wide by 3/4 inch . Im hoping they were dry enough to prevent staining . The tree i cut this wood from had been dead for about 3 years . I was hoping some drying had already occured .This is our first attempt to began using wood that we get regularly from our tree service in some other fashion than fire wood . I checked eveything with a level and the plie is spot on. The stickers are about one foot apart . 
Thanx very much for the info .I ordered a book or two on drying lumber .We got alot to learn .... Dark


----------



## Finnbear (Apr 26, 2006)

Sounds like you're on the right track. I got into milling and timber salvage the same way. My first pile of logs came from some cherry trees that came down in a storm at a neighbor of my parents. I was helping clear away the damage and couldn't bring myself to cut some of the nice straight stuff into firewood so I bucked it into 8-1/2 foot logs and loaded it on my trailer. I found a guy with a WoodMizer and he cut up my first pile of boards. He didn't do the greatest job of sawing them but it was still very much $$ worth my while. Then a tornado came through and took out almost twenty big tall oak and hickory trees at my wife's grandparents house. I got a boom truck in to load all that and had it sawed also. The hickory kitchen cabinets in my parents house all came from that load. Since then I scrounge any and every log I can get my hands on and I keep buying and building better tools to handle the logs and lumber with the money I make. 

Tell me more about the chainsaw powered bandsaw you mentioned earlier. I have seen one available commercially called a RipSaw but never ran into anyone who used one yet. Is that what you used? How well does it work? Any shortcomings? If not a RipSaw then who makes it? I'm thinking about adding a portable bandsaw to my toolbox and the chainsaw powered bandsaw style looks interesting. PM me if you wish.
Thanks - Finnbear


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Apr 26, 2006)

Finnbear said:


> Properly stacking and stickering lumber is the MOST important step (after sawing) in producing quality lumber. While moldy boards may be acceptable for construction lumber it is not acceptable for finish lumber since the mold will stain the boards and ruin the lumber for finish uses (unless it will be painted). End sealant should be applied as soon as the log is cut to length since they will develop end splits inside of 24 hours without it. Dried and milled Cherry fetches nearly $10/board foot so losing 6" off each end of a single 1x6 can cost you $5. At that rate it only takes a dozen boards to pay for a 5 gallon bucket of wax based end sealant. Split, bowed, and twisted lumber comes from not stacking and stickering and weighting the pile properly. Lumber should be stacked on a nearly perfectly flat pallet with stickers across the width of the board spaced every 16 inches along its length. Stickers should be 4/4 material, uniform thickness, straight, and dry. Green stickers often stain boards with black stripes that are deep enough that they do not come off completely when the boards are planed. There should be about one inch spacing between each board. The stack should be no more than 4 feet in width to ensure the middle boards receive adequate airflow. The stickers in each layer should be directly above the stickers in the previous layer so the boards do not get waves in them. The stack can be as long as the boards you are drying and as tall as you can comfortably stack them (usually about 6ft). The top layer needs to be stickered and then covered with a layer of plywood or roof tin or some other suitable material to keep the weather off with some overhang of the roof material being a good idea. The top of the stack should then be weighted over each column of stickers length with cement blocks or something heavy to keep the upper layers flat. The entire stack should be positioned somewhere that receives decent airflow and is not in direct sunlight or it should be under roof in an open air shed. I use an open-sided drying shed which will hold 6 stacks of lumber with 800-1000 bf per stack. Lumber dried in this manner tends to be very stable when finish dried. If the finish lumber will be used indoors then it should be brought indoors and re-stacked and stickered for about a month before use. This will allow it to further dry and acclimate itself to the temp and humidity it will experience in its finished state. I use a rack in my shop that holds about 1000 board feet and keep adding wood from the outdoor shed as I use what is in the rack. There are some good publications on lumber drying and if you look around enough you can find many of them for little or no cost.
> Finnbear




THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!!!! 

The only thing I'll add is if the stack is outdoor it should be positioned such that the prevailing winds blow through the side of the stack, not the end. This will help prevent checking.


----------



## coveredinsap (Apr 26, 2006)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!!!!
> .



LOL! That's a good one!

I especially liked the part about moving the wood indoors and letting it sit for a month to 'acclimate'.
Hahahahahahahaha! That's a Time-Life book wannabe trick.

The truth is, that unless the environment inside your house is radically different in temperature and humidity than the outside....and I mean radically different....then you're wasting your time.
(A good example of 'radically different' would be South Florida in the summertime...hot and damp outside, air conditioned and dehumidified inside.)

No matter. Do whatever you like. I could care less.


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Apr 26, 2006)

> The truth is, that unless the environment inside your house is radically different in temperature and humidity than the outside....and I mean radically different....then you're wasting your time.



Sap,

Are you saying you don't heat your house in the winter???? You don't cool your house in the summer???

The "bring it in and let it acclimate" only works for "normal" people! I guess it doesn't work for a cave dweller like you....






Rob


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Apr 26, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> I especially liked the part about moving the wood indoors and letting it sit for a month to 'acclimate'.
> Hahahahahahahaha! That's a Time-Life book wannabe trick.



So let me get this straight. You're saying that information published by distinguished research firms and industry renowned experts on this subject is incorrect? I guess I need to update my library.


----------



## Finnbear (Apr 26, 2006)

Do you own a GOOD moisture meter? Have you ever monitored the relative humidity inside and outside of your house simultaneously over a period of time? Outdoor humidity levels will vary greatly depending on the weather. Indoor levels vary somewhat but remain much more constant than outdoors. The average humidity inside will normally be lower than the average humidity outside and this will dry the wood even further especially in newer "tighter" energy efficient homes. These homes are typically air conditioned/dehumidified which amplifies the effect. With a good moisture meter you can measure a difference in MC after wood is stored inside for a couple months. If you use air dried wood immediately after bringing it indoors you will notice that miters and close fitted joints will open up after a few months indoors. This is due to a reduction in MC caused by lower humidity indoors. Wet lumber will continue to dry until it reaches an equilibrium with its environment which will be dryer inside than out. I don't need to make any of this up - it is well established fact and easily observed by anyone who cares to.
Finnbear



coveredinsap said:


> LOL! That's a good one!
> 
> I especially liked the part about moving the wood indoors and letting it sit for a month to 'acclimate'.
> Hahahahahahahaha! That's a Time-Life book wannabe trick.
> ...


----------



## flht01 (Apr 27, 2006)

*RipSaw*



Finnbear said:


> ...
> 
> Tell me more about the chainsaw powered bandsaw you mentioned earlier. I have seen one available commercially called a RipSaw but never ran into anyone who used one yet. Is that what you used? How well does it work? Any shortcomings? If not a RipSaw then who makes it? I'm thinking about adding a portable bandsaw to my toolbox and the chainsaw powered bandsaw style looks interesting. PM me if you wish.
> Thanks - Finnbear



Finnbear, enjoyed reading your post's. I've got a ripsaw and will be glad to answer any questions you might have. I have to admit I'm still in the honeymoon stages with it but have a few links to folks that have had time to put it through the paces. Maybe a new thread would drag some of the ripsaw users out of the closet  

Kevin


----------



## coveredinsap (Apr 27, 2006)

Finnbear said:


> Do you own a GOOD moisture meter? Have you ever monitored the relative humidity inside and outside of your house simultaneously over a period of time? Outdoor humidity levels will vary greatly depending on the weather. Indoor levels vary somewhat but remain much more constant than outdoors. The average humidity inside will normally be lower than the average humidity outside and this will dry the wood even further especially in newer "tighter" energy efficient homes. These homes are typically air conditioned/dehumidified which amplifies the effect. With a good moisture meter you can measure a difference in MC after wood is stored inside for a couple months. If you use air dried wood immediately after bringing it indoors you will notice that miters and close fitted joints will open up after a few months indoors. This is due to a reduction in MC caused by lower humidity indoors. Wet lumber will continue to dry until it reaches an equilibrium with its environment which will be dryer inside than out. I don't need to make any of this up - it is well established fact and easily observed by anyone who cares to.
> Finnbear




LOL! Dude, you're being way too anal about wood. It reminds me of wannabes who read a bunch of books and buy all the latest gadgets and doodads to try and understand something that is, in actuality, relatively simple.
So here it is:
Wood moves. It is never a constant. That is what makes it such an excellent building material.

Attempting to monitor moisture to the nth degree...letting wood 'acclimatize' for weeks or months on end in order to achieve some fractional moisture content difference is...anal.

Newsflash: If the wood has been sitting inside at Home Depot, it is good to go in your home...immediately. No need to wait. Again, the acclimazation 'waiting period' is for radically different environment/temperature changes, not normal ones.

But whatever. Never let it be said that I interfered with the conniptions of those with obsessive/compulsive disorder. Hell....follow the manufacturers instructions, let the wood sit a year...ten years...whatever. As I said, I could care less.


----------



## Newfie (Apr 27, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> LOL! Dude, you're being way too anal about wood. It reminds me of wannabes who read a bunch of books and buy all the latest gadgets and doodads to try and understand something that is, in actuality, relatively simple.
> So here it is:
> Wood moves. It is never a constant. That is what makes it such an excellent building material.
> 
> ...



You are awfully verbose for someone who could care less.

The real truth is that you couldn't know less about the subject.

We are not talking about kiln dried lumber from home depot. We are talking about air dried lumber cut on our own mills whether it is from a bandmill or a csm. Air dried lumber will only achieve a MC of 20 -25% outside. Kiln dried lumber is dried to a MC of 6-8% in order to be stable (only minor shrink and expansion) in an interior environment. That is a huge difference in MC. Go and try and use air dried lumber inside without restacking and drying inside and whatever you build will develop problems with poorly fitting joints and cracking and warping. We aren't talking about "fractional differences".

I'm really surprised you haven't googled the subject to death yet.


----------



## Finnbear (Apr 27, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> LOL! Dude, you're being way too anal about wood. It reminds me of wannabes who read a bunch of books and buy all the latest gadgets and doodads to try and understand something that is, in actuality, relatively simple.
> So here it is:
> Wood moves. It is never a constant. That is what makes it such an excellent building material.
> 
> ...



We are talking about AIR-dried wood which is very different than KILN-dried wood in its MC. It does dry considerably (and shrink) once moved indoors. The lumber you get from Home Depot is kiln dried and has a lower (closer to equilibrium with indoor humidity) MC to begin with. 
Finnbear


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Apr 27, 2006)

Sap is a cave dweller, 25% moisture is probable just about as dry as it gets in there...  

Rob


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Apr 27, 2006)

I looked up some of the wanabes 'sap referred to. Here's just a few.

R. Bruce Hoadley "The target in drying is to get the wood moisture content down to the equilibrium level of dryness consistent with the atmosphere in which the finished product will be used."

William W. Rice "...suggests controlling temperature and humidity, if possible, indoors."

Lee Grindinger "He describes the shrinkage you can expect, what to tell the mill operator, how to end-coat the log, choose stickers, build a solid stack, how to watch it, and when to stop."

I found these excerpts in less than 5 minutes. If I had time to waste, I could give you hundreds.

It's one thing to be a renagade. It's another to be ignorant.


----------



## Newfie (Apr 28, 2006)

Come on aggie, we all know that those guys are wannabe hacks who know diddly about drying wood.:hmm3grin2orange: 


I guess if sap's approach to carpentry is anything like his approach to drying lumber then no wonder he has been idle for going on 2 months. Rain never stopped the crew I worked on, unless we were framing the roof. Besides a little rain ain't gonna hurt the MC of the lumber from Home depot, right?:deadhorse:


----------



## Full Skip (Apr 28, 2006)

Well, it looks like the know-it-all got spanked again by you guys.

:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Apr 28, 2006)

I may be making a mistake, but I have to admit there is _some_ validity to _some_ of 'sap's arguments. There are many individuals that waste a lot of time and money following the book to the Nth degree. This is usually a result of inexperience and ignorance but, hey, we all got to start some where.

The project the material is intended for dictates the reasonable degree of care one should give it. Once again, experience is the best way to learn this.

Per his personal profile, Sap is a self proclaimed "carpenter extrordinaire" which explains a lot to me. Carpenters and Woodworkers are NOT the same animal. I was raised by a carpenter, worked as a frame carpenter, trim carpenter, cabinet builder and presently, a construction manager by trade and Woodworker by profession. When I started getting in to fine woodworking I realized I had A LOT to learn to even come close to the title of Woodworker. I am by no means an expert, master woodworker but one of my goals in life is to get there.

That said, in MY experience, I have learned the unavoidable, basic truth of wood movement due to MC loss. For example, I built a farm style dining table of post oak that my Father sawed and air dried for three years. The top was 40" x 120" x 2" and was glued up from 4 individual boards. When the finished table was moved to it's present location, our cabin, it shrunk by 3/8" in width but I allowed for movement so all is well. Mind you this is NOT conditioned space yet the difference in ambient MC still had an effect. Also, the logs the cabin were built from were air dried for anywhere from six to eighteen months prior to being moved and re-stacked at the ranch. They were then allowed to acclimate for several more months before going up on the wall. Once the wall reached full height and the roof was installed, the wall shrank at least 2" over the next year due to the logs losing moisture. Again, we allowed for it so all is well.

Sap, please share with us your experiences supporting your arguments.


----------



## coveredinsap (Apr 28, 2006)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> I may be making a mistake, but I have to admit there is _some_ validity to _some_ of 'sap's arguments. There are many individuals that waste a lot of time and money following the book to the Nth degree. This is usually a result of inexperience and ignorance but, hey, we all got to start some where.
> 
> The project the material is intended for dictates the reasonable degree of care one should give it. Once again, experience is the best way to learn this.
> 
> ...




That is the closest thing I've seen to a reasonably accurate summary of the moisture content/drying subject in quite a while.

Building custom furniture is one thing when it comes to drying. Most other uses of lumber are another thing entirely different.
All wood moves, no matter what you do or how dry it is or isn't. That is the nature of the beast. You always make allowances for movement, and go on from there.

The only way to truly 'stabilize' wood is to soak it in a polymer resin under vacuum, so that the air pockets in the wood are displaced by the polymer. Then you have stabilized wood ....and even that moves sometimes 

For example, painting the ends of boards and stickering it is a waste of time if you are just going to stack it in the sun to dry. You'd be better off stacking it in a solid stack in the shade, letting it dry slowly, and planing off any mold or discoloration after it has dried (for cabinetmaking). At least you're left with some straight, unsplit lumber in the end.

Oh, and the same thing can be said for getting lumber down to too low of a moisture content. All it takes then is a little moisture in the air or environment, and the wood swells as it absorbs the moisture. The key is finding the right balance.


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Apr 28, 2006)

> You'd be better off stacking it in a solid stack in the shade, letting it dry slowly, and planing off any mold or discoloration after it has dried (for cabinetmaking).



"If" you actually knew anything about this, you'd know that the mould and staining goes so deep that you can't get it out. It will leave a ghost image right through the finish, even if you plane off a half inch!! That is, if the bugs don't ruin the whole pile first!

Sadly, someone here may actually listen to you and try it, ruining there prized lumber!!

Rob


----------



## coveredinsap (Apr 28, 2006)

Sawyer Rob said:


> "If" you actually knew anything about this, you'd know that the mould and staining goes so deep that you can't get it out. It will leave a ghost image right through the finish, even if you plane off a half inch!! That is, if the bugs don't ruin the whole pile first!
> 
> Sadly, someone here may actually listen to you and try it, ruining there prized lumber!!
> 
> Rob



You've got to use your brain. Nobody said to leave it that way long-term.


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Apr 28, 2006)

> You've got to use your brain. Nobody said to leave it that way long-term.



hey mr. genius,

In hot weather with fresh sawn lumber it can happen in a matter of days!!!

Like i said, your spreading chit, and you know "nothing" about properly drying cabinet lumber!

From what i can see, on this entire site "everyone" has you figured out, so why do you keep on makeing yourself look even "stupider" by continuing to post??

You sound like you live in the town of "Bedrock"!!! Say "hi" to Barney for me...






Rob


----------



## coveredinsap (Apr 29, 2006)

It wouldn't surprise me a bit, 'sawyer rob'...if you sit at a desk all day. Or maybe a salesman.


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Apr 29, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> That is the closest thing I've seen to a reasonably accurate summary of the moisture content/drying subject in quite a while.



Just to clarify, your solid stack idea is garbage in any application. I wish I had pictures of the cases of deep mildew stain I've delt with.

But, IF you can show us where the solid stack has worked for you (something other than grape stakes), PLEASE share it with us. I would hate to be wasting my time when I didn't have to.


----------



## chowdozer (Apr 29, 2006)

Newfie said:


> Come on aggie, we all know that those guys are wannabe hacks who know diddly about drying wood.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> I guess if sap's approach to carpentry is anything like his approach to drying lumber then no wonder he has been idle for going on 2 months. Rain never stopped the crew I worked on, unless we were framing the roof. Besides a little rain ain't gonna hurt the MC of the lumber from Home depot, right?:deadhorse:



Sap IS a carpenter in Florida. Twisted and checked lumber or poor fitting joints aren't so important when your work blows down every couple years.


----------



## chowdozer (Apr 29, 2006)

Finnbear, thanks for your input on drying. 
A question for you. I have some maples that I'm going to cut down next winter and I'd like to mill them. For drying, can I stack them in my spare bedroom? I heat with a woodstove and I can keep the door partially closed to regulate temp. Would it be better to stack the wood outside?

Thanks
Greg


----------



## Finnbear (Apr 29, 2006)

Air drying in a spare bedroom - now that is something I have no experience with but I don't think I'd try it. First thing that comes to mind is that indoor humidity in winter is very low and might cause the wood dry too fast on the outside and surface check similar to what happens when placed in direct sunlight. You also don't have wind/airflow inside to carry the moisture away. Air drying is a slow process that requires careful initial preparation and then lots of patience. I also don't think you'll want all that sawdust mess inside your house. I'd look for a good place outside where you can stack/sticker and keep the weather off the pile.
Finnbear


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Apr 30, 2006)

Finnbear is correct. Inside your house is not the place you want to air dry green lumber, at least initially. Not only is your house too dry, the lumber is too wet. You would probably be surprised how much water is released during the drying process. Green (sugar) maple contains approximately 70% water by weight. Let's say you mill 1000 BF of lumber. That stack at should weigh approximately 4957 lbs. at 70% and only 3547 lbs. at 10%. This equates to 1410 lbs. or 170 gallons of lost water. Unless you have a bada$$ HVAC system or a DH unit you will have moisture damage in the room in which it is stored.

Anyone (with a brain) is free to check my figures and correct me if I'm wrong but this info is readily available. I have one book I consult regularly, Understanding Wood, A Craftsman's Guide to Wood Technology by R. Bruce Hoadley. I highly recommend it.


----------



## woodshop (May 1, 2006)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> You would probably be surprised how much water is released during the drying process. Anyone (with a brain) is free to check my figures and correct me if I'm wrong but this info is readily available. I have one book I consult regularly, Understanding Wood, A Craftsman's Guide to Wood Technology by R. Bruce Hoadley. I highly recommend it.


Aggie is very correct about freshly sawn lumber loosing LOTS of moisture. Couple weeks ago I milled 300 ft of red oak, stacked it right into back of my van as I sliced it off the log with my Ripsaw. When I got home it was dark and raining, didn't unload right away. In fact, that wood stayed in my closed van for almost 36 hours before I got to it. Mistake. The inside of my van was like a sauna bath, wet beads of moisture covered everything inside. In just a day and a half that 300 ft of wet red oak had released gallons of water. Years ago I did try and dry some freshly milled lumber by stickering and stacking inside my garage which did not get opened every day, thus didn't get much change of air. It did dry eventually, but took twice as long and had lot of stain on it because of the mold that came and went. Lesson learned. I have stickered and air dried several thousand bd ft since then, and do it all under roof, but open to let air through. Since I don't have lots of room in my woodshop to stack and dry lumber, another trick that works for me as far as getting that outside wood (15-20%MC) down to 8-10% is to use the top of my garage. It's somewhat like an attic spring through fall, gets hot, not a whole lot of air exchange. I found quite by accident that much of the year, I can take a 15% MC cherry or oak board from the back shed, stick it up in that hot attic for a week or so, and watch as my moisture meter shows it slowly drop down to 8-10%. Kind of a poor mans quick and dirty kiln of sorts. Of course that doesn't work in the dead of winter here, and in middle of summer here on East coast its humid indoors and out. June through September my moisture meter shows that there isn't a lot of difference between the lumber out in my shed and the stuff down in my shop. Only in the fall does the wood MC start to move down into the single digits indoors while the stuff outside stays in the 15% and above range. The bottom line in all of this is to plan ahead for wood movement in your designs and projects, because no matter what you do or where you are, any experienced woodworker will tell you that the wood will eventually move with the weather. Nature of the beast. I too recommend Hoadly's book Understanding Wood, as well as his other companion book Identifying Wood. Both are very good reading, and I find myself pulling them back out over and over.


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (May 1, 2006)

Thanks, Dave.

As usual, another excellent post.

I have Identifying Wood as well. Great books. Another invaluable book to me is The Wood Book by Hough. This could almost be topic for a new thread.


----------



## Finnbear (May 2, 2006)

*New thread on favorite Wood books*

aggie,
Started a new thread here.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=422708#post422708
Finnbear


----------



## Woodsplitter (May 9, 2006)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Finnbear is correct. Inside your house is not the place you want to air dry green lumber, at least initially. Not only is your house too dry, the lumber is too wet. You would probably be surprised how much water is released during the drying process. Green (sugar) maple contains approximately 70% water by weight. Let's say you mill 1000 BF of lumber. That stack at should weigh approximately 4957 lbs. at 70% and only 3547 lbs. at 10%. This equates to 1410 lbs. or 170 gallons of lost water. Unless you have a bada$$ HVAC system or a DH unit you will have moisture damage in the room in which it is stored.
> 
> Anyone (with a brain) is free to check my figures and correct me if I'm wrong but this info is readily available. I have one book I consult regularly, Understanding Wood, A Craftsman's Guide to Wood Technology by R. Bruce Hoadley. I highly recommend it.



We must have lucked out(my wife and I). We are completely redoing a 100yr old house and I dried all my red oak stacked in my dining room for 6 months and I believe it turned out great. Only a few end cracks and very little mold.....just a little black discoloration on a couple boards and since it was on the ends I didn't have to worry about it. I do wonder if the reason it did so well is because we have radiant heat from old cast iron radiators so the house never really dries out to bad?? We also had no problems with moisture but the house is very large and very open so the air wasn't contained to just one room if I'm making sense? The next time though I have a new garage to dry my wood in..yeah.:rockn:


----------



## woodshop (May 9, 2006)

woosplitter maybe the reason you "lucked out" and were successful indoors in your situation was that you must have had enough air movement in and out of that room. Was the front door you entered and left the house nearby? One that got opened couple times a day at least? Also, 100 year old houses tend to be a bit leaky, they were not designed as air tight as newer construction. I live in a 100+ year old house, I should know. Plus you said it was a dining room, so can I assume at least one or two walls were mostly open to another room, say a living room or foyer? Thus you really had a huge area in which that moisture could dissipate. Also, was that oak wet right off the saw or did it have a week sitting somewhere to lose some of its initial load of water? Curious also how you dealt with the smell. All of my wet red oak has that typical rancid acidic oak smell for the first few months it is drying. All I have to do is walk NEAR the stacks I have stickered in my back yard to smell it. I can only imagine what it would be like if it was stickered inside my house.


----------



## Woodsplitter (May 9, 2006)

I picked the wood up the same day it was cut. You hit everything else spot on. The room is basically centered in the house and the house has large open rooms. I had no other choice at the time since I had to tear down my old garage as it had a wooden floor and had shifted on the foundation (talk about oak beams). The smell was something we had to get used to but not bad......lol.

I wonder how long the logs themselves sat before he cut them for us? That may be why we lucked out. I never thought of that. It is a small father/son mill maybe it sat for quite awhile.

Anyway, it worked for us. Maybe, we just lucked out. .....lol beginners luck.


----------



## vamtjewboy (Nov 15, 2007)

*compressing drying lumber*

There was some talk about putting cinder blocks on the top of piles. i once saw a few photos of a guy who used all-thread and compressed his drying lumber with a home-made jig. i started using harbor freight ratchet straps to smoosh all the wood together and hopefully keep it straight. can anyone with more experience with this attest to these methods actually reducing bend and twist? thanks


----------



## woodshop (Nov 15, 2007)

vamtjewboy said:


> There was some talk about putting cinder blocks on the top of piles. i once saw a few photos of a guy who used all-thread and compressed his drying lumber with a home-made jig. i started using harbor freight ratchet straps to smoosh all the wood together and hopefully keep it straight. can anyone with more experience with this attest to these methods actually reducing bend and twist? thanks



No way around the fact that wood by it's very nature is going to twist and move around at least a little as it dries, nature of the beast. Some wood twists more than other species. Forcing the boards as flat as you can as they dry helps SOME to keep them from twisting as much as they would if no weight at all. I will hereby "attest" to the fact that this does indeed work to some degree.


----------



## MikeInParadise (Nov 15, 2007)

vamtjewboy said:


> There was some talk about putting cinder blocks on the top of piles. i once saw a few photos of a guy who used all-thread and compressed his drying lumber with a home-made jig. i started using harbor freight ratchet straps to smoosh all the wood together and hopefully keep it straight. can anyone with more experience with this attest to these methods actually reducing bend and twist? thanks



I have done both ways. The one thing you will find with using the rachet straps is that they will become loose fairly quickly at first and you will need to continually check on them and tighten them up. 

I tend to use weights and also I always cut my good wood a little thicker so that I can plane and Joint it back square even with a bit of a twist when I go to use it.

The more weight the better and make sure that you line up your stickers one on top of the other.


----------



## oldsaw (Nov 15, 2007)

When I do it in my garage, I use a box fan and a dehumidifier. Keeps air moving, and the door is opened many times a day.

mark


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 16, 2007)

vamtjewboy said:


> There was some talk about putting cinder blocks on the top of piles. i once saw a few photos of a guy who used all-thread and compressed his drying lumber with a home-made jig. i started using harbor freight ratchet straps to smoosh all the wood together and hopefully keep it straight. can anyone with more experience with this attest to these methods actually reducing bend and twist? thanks



Short answer.... Yes.


----------



## Matildasmate (Nov 16, 2007)

*Ex sawmill worker*

Hi Guy's very interesting thread . I spent a few year's or more working in sawmill's , doing all sort's of job's from the logyard to green mill , drymill , green chain , moulder operator , tallyman , dockerman , timber grader , bla bla bla , you get the drift . Anyway when we stacked timber off of the green chain onto stack's for drying , each layer was stickered with kiln dried 2x1's , stack's were about 6' wide and about 7'-8' high and roughly 20'-21' long , once the stack's were finished , they used to put length's of railway iron on top of the stack's to weigh them down , eventually they got smart and used massive concrete block's to weigh the stack's down , about 2 ton each , there was a vast improvement in timber quality with the concrete blocks , then they were stored in an open shed until ready for kiln drying . I personally got a bit slack a couple of year's back , I stacked some pine in my large fully enclosed shed , in winter , so I had lousy air circ and low temp's , then I used wet sticker's , I also left my log's too long before milling them , so I had blue stain already , anyway long story short , I ended up with some crap wood , blue stained (it was still usable) lot's of mold sticker mark's as well as mold from wet sticker's , at least it was straight . I should have stored the timber in a well ventilated shed , with dry sticker's and plenty of weight on the stack . A bloke should have known better eh . Cheer's MM


----------

