# 70 ton wood splitter



## TONYRB (Oct 1, 2018)

Hi thought id try upload some pics of our 70ton wood splitter.. still early days.. 

Got the 500mm by 500mm push plate welded up. Sitiing on a 250by90 h beam 17 mm flange. Waiting on 2nd ram to have 1inch ports fitted as factory ports were to small, hopfully this week will get time to fit the some 8mm teflon like product under the push plate bolt it alk up and weld in the rear ram brackets at the matching height at the rear.. will keep this up dated


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## MontanaResident (Oct 1, 2018)

Yikes! I am looking forward to the demo.


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## TONYRB (Oct 2, 2018)

Stript the paint back and seald it up. Still needs top coat but will wait got a ton of welding to go


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 2, 2018)

Dunno what the converts to American, but I have an 18" 1" thick H beam that'd made a nice splitter!.


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## TONYRB (Oct 2, 2018)

Nice. Once complete ill have something like, 2x 100by100by10mm angle iron at the top. With a smaller h beam at the back supporting it, so the rams are in a cage set up... i love plasma cutters... i still need to cut threw the other side and drop it threw, box the rear bracket to the web it n weld her up..


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## TONYRB (Oct 6, 2018)

2nd ram fitted


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## MontanaResident (Oct 6, 2018)

Looking great. What on earth needs a 70 ton splitter? Or better question, what can you load on to it that can come close to utilizing the power of this monster?


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## TONYRB (Oct 6, 2018)

MontanaResident said:


> Looking great. What on earth needs a 70 ton splitter? Or better question, what can you load on to it that can come close to utilizing the power of this monster?



70 ton is at 4000 psi, we can scale it down to 53 ton at 3000 psi which we may have to do to test it, and go up from there if we need to.
The cutting box will be 1m by 1m, 8 way cutter (39" cutting box) but that may change as im liking MUDDSTOPPERS 12 way box cutter, the stroke of the rams is 1100 mm (43") so our plan is to be able to load 3x rings into it and split 3 rings in 1 go. The size of the rings we will just have to wait and see what it can achieve, im aiming for 800mm (31") size rings, may be higher on clean straight wood ? but max is 1m (39") if it can do it and hold together :/ 

I pick up a lot of my wood pre rung up or logs from friends in the arb industry localy, so our plan is to ring up what we need to, load up the skid steer and load the machine. This week im hoping to gusset the back ram bracket and box the H beam. I should of plated the top flange as my top flange is only 17mm thick, once I refit the ram together ill check the gap between the bottom of the ram and the top of the H beam to see if i have clearance to plate. - the rams will be in a cage set up so im hoping that will also take stress away from the H beam ? im no engineer, just not bad on the welder and trying to make it as strong as i can...

As we do, iv watched months and months of youtube videos, reading forums on how im going to build this. Quite keen to see a front pick of how Muddstopper fitted his --- muddstopper I need ur help..., the rear ram bracket will be strong but with the H beam finishing where the cutting box starts so it can ajust for the size of the rings is what im trying to engineer in my head currently. It will have an axle at the cutting box end, I was going to fit it under the end of the H beam but I would rather have it half way along the rear table out the back so me skid steer has more room to get in and unload the rings.
iv got 80 to 90% of it planned in my head and then the plan changes and then I get to the shed and make it the best plan and re change if i need or want to 

Open to ideas and opinions. Tony


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## TONYRB (Oct 6, 2018)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> Dunno what the converts to American, but I have an 18" 1" thick H beam that'd made a nice splitter!.


18" 1" H Beam just the the conversion to mm - thats a decent size H Beam have you got a pic of the splitter.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 6, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> 18" 1" H Beam just the the conversion to mm - thats a decent size H Beam have you got a pic of the splitter.



I bought it with a auction lot of beams, tube, pipe, etc. The beam was the first to go on my truck and the forklift guy about flipped the truck over when he dropped it on the edge of the bed! I think we figured it later it weighed around 3500lbs.

Hauled it all out on an F450, 18ft 12k trailer and a C30... all overloaded... a little haha


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## TONYRB (Oct 10, 2018)

Havent done much welding the last few days. Waiting on steel to turn up. Hopfully tomorrow we will clean up the H Beam get it ready to gusset the back ram bracket and box it up. Iv got the front supported sorted on how im going to make it strong enuff to connect on the ajustable cutting box. Iv got the final cutting box designed. Wel do a 12 way and a 4 way in a 1m by 1.3m long box. Hopfully in afew days the cutter box will be complete also


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## KiwiBro (Oct 10, 2018)

G'Day Tony.

Am not sure if they are still going since some bastard stole their prototypes a while back but have you looked into what Andy at Holman Enterprises was doing? Might get a few ideas. 

Not a set and forget option but this one is not a bad idea either:


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## TONYRB (Oct 10, 2018)

KiwiBro said:


> G'Day Tony.
> 
> Am not sure if they are still going since some bastard stole their prototypes a while back but have you looked into what Andy at Holman Enterprises was doing? Might get a few ideas.
> 
> Not a set and forget option but this one is not a bad idea either:




Hey KiwiBro.

Not a bad set up, adjustable knife height first time iv seen that in that setup, yup that machine would make a pile of wood fast


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## TONYRB (Oct 11, 2018)

Iv cut threw the web and flange of the smaller H beam, and cut some slots for the push plate to slide on threw, Iv placed the smaller H beam on to the main H beam, Next Job is to clean it up and tack it all square with adding the 200mm by 100mm by 9mm RHS supports, once its all welded I will box both H beams.
With this set up, we will be able to slide the cutter box lower than the main H beam, so we can split smaller rings
With all this work iv decided to clean back all the surfaces metal prep it and will seal up the inside of the boxed areas also, its gotta help make it last...


Will load up pics as I go.


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## TONYRB (Oct 11, 2018)




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## TONYRB (Oct 13, 2018)

Few more pics


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## TONYRB (Oct 17, 2018)

Still got a days worth of boxing to do around the RHS support on the main beam and some on the smaller H beam. Hopfully mid next week will start the cutter box


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## TONYRB (Oct 17, 2018)

Pic.


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## muddstopper (Oct 20, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> 70 ton is at 4000 psi, we can scale it down to 53 ton at 3000 psi which we may have to do to test it, and go up from there if we need to.
> The cutting box will be 1m by 1m, 8 way cutter (39" cutting box) but that may change as im liking MUDDSTOPPERS 12 way box cutter, the stroke of the rams is 1100 mm (43") so our plan is to be able to load 3x rings into it and split 3 rings in 1 go. The size of the rings we will just have to wait and see what it can achieve, im aiming for 800mm (31") size rings, may be higher on clean straight wood ? but max is 1m (39") if it can do it and hold together :/
> 
> I pick up a lot of my wood pre rung up or logs from friends in the arb industry localy, so our plan is to ring up what we need to, load up the skid steer and load the machine. This week im hoping to gusset the back ram bracket and box the H beam. I should of plated the top flange as my top flange is only 17mm thick, once I refit the ram together ill check the gap between the bottom of the ram and the top of the H beam to see if i have clearance to plate. - the rams will be in a cage set up so im hoping that will also take stress away from the H beam ? im no engineer, just not bad on the welder and trying to make it as strong as i can...
> ...


not sure what picture you need to see. Ill post a few and maybe have what you want.



I thought I had some pic's of the wedge end, but guess I dont. I havent got back to working on it since these pic's where taken. Anyways, the wedge is made out of 3/4 t1 plate. the slide box is made out of a forklift hoist. It is 1/2in thick channel. I made the wedge just deep enough to slde inside the channel. Off the top of my head, I forget how wide the blade material is, 8inches I believe, each layer of wedges are set back 3 inches from the one in front so that the wood isnt striking all the wedges at one time. The slide box is setting on top of 1in thick plate that is welded to the bottom of the Hbeam. It will need additional braceing at the top to prevent the cyl from just pushing it off the beam. I figured on adding the additional braceing as I build the rest of the processor. I dont know if you can tell from the pic's, but my hbeam is capped and the sides plated with more 1/2in plate. The sides metal is actually welded in from flange to flange to form a box instead of just welded to the web of the beam. At the cyl mount base, I also welded in some gussets on each side to help hold the cyl mounts. Now that gardening is over with for the year, I might get a chance to start back on my build. I have most of what I need to finish it, just havent had the time or any real need to get it finished.


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## TONYRB (Oct 21, 2018)

Cheers Muddstopper, 
I found your build forum on yours and have read it 4 of 5 times- very helpfull info. I have a bit more boxing to do to the h beam and ill be on to setting up the cutter box. As you mentioned this build also has a heep of strengthening supports to be welded in im currently trying to find the right size H beam to run the box cutter in. The blades we are using is 20mm thick by 200mm wide Single beveled boron steel. Will update mid next week ofthe cutter box- hopefully


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Oct 31, 2018)

Cool. I'm about 1/2 way done my build. Shooting for a 50 ton fairly fast splitter. It's on a w67 beam (1" flanges) using a 7" ram with 5" rod for real fast retract. 40 gpm flow valve with a 40 gpm pump


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Oct 31, 2018)

Majority of the push plate and cylinder backing plate is made from 1-1/2 plate


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Oct 31, 2018)

Some pics


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## TONYRB (Nov 8, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Majority of the push plate and cylinder backing plate is made from 1-1/2 plate


shes prity solid Pirate


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## milkie62 (Nov 9, 2018)

SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Cool. I'm about 1/2 way done my build. Shooting for a 50 ton fairly fast splitter. It's on a w67 beam (1" flanges) using a 7" ram with 5" rod for real fast retract. 40 gpm flow valve with a 40 gpm pump


What are you using for an engine on that ?


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## TONYRB (Nov 10, 2018)

milkie62 said:


> What are you using for an engine on that ?


 Iv found a 3 cylinder 60 hp air cooled industrial Hatz engine, its got a permco p197 pump on the back of it, iv been told it can pump 137 lpm which is 36 gallons per minute in trump terms... - im getting help with the hydraulic side as in know very little about hydraulics and calculations ...


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## Huskybill (Nov 10, 2018)

I used a 5” bore x 24” stroke cylinder on my last log splitter I built. What refused to split she cut through it. I used a 10” H beam. I’d like to build another one.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 10, 2018)

If it's a Permco 197, that's a fairly small pump series, I believe the largest pump section for it is around 15gpm.

Even a 40gpm pump, 60hp is way overkill.

Something to consider, a 5" rod means the retract stroke will be high flow. On 40gpm extend, It'd be about 85gpm.


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## TONYRB (Nov 11, 2018)

The permco 197 series pump on the back of the Hatz engine is a multiple unit. Going by permco spex thats 72 lpm per port = 144 lpm or 38 gallons per minute, that's based on a 46 hp engine at 2400 rpm, yes 60 hp will be plenty of power but we can run it at lower revs, & up the revs if we need to. Better to have your engine on low revs ticking along than your engine revving high all day. This engine is for 2 rams huskey with 4" rod its not the engine for smelly pirates splitter


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 11, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> The permco 197 series pump on the back of the Hatz engine is a multiple unit. Going by permco spex thats 72 lpm per port = 144 lpm or 38 gallons per minute, that's based on a 46 hp engine at 2400 rpm, yes 60 hp will be plenty of power but we can run it at lower revs, & up the revs if we need to. Better to have your engine on low revs ticking along than your engine revving high all day. This engine is for 2 rams huskey with 4" rod its not the engine for smelly pirates splitter



The pump won't make as much flow at lower revs.
Better to have the engine running at the governed speed actually.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 14, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> shes prity solid Pirate


Thank you


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 14, 2018)

milkie62 said:


> What are you using for an engine on that ?


One of my other projects is a 52 Dodge flatbed. Its got a running 252 flat head six in it that is coming out for an 8v53 upgrade. I love the little six so its getting used for something, so this is it. Thinking of the fuel usage of a vtwin 23 hp Kohler i figured an old six cylinder farm workhorse running at 1k rpm wouldnt be far off. My only issue is i cant find a Dyno sheet on the engine, I know it makes 120 hp at 3200. Im guessing it will pull over 55 hp at 1k but its a guess. If it cant tow the line I have a 2 to 1 marine gear box I will adapt to run the engine at 2K rpm which will surely be enough power and then some. FYI my pump is a 40 gpm PTO style pump with a 2750 psi max output.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 14, 2018)

The other thought is if i dont like the PTO pump setup (even with such a strong motor) ill go tandem gear pumps. One small and one very large with and unloader valve in the mix so it will work like a 2 stage pump. If i go this direction the splitter will be way stronger, which is why im over building it. And of course if this happens ill change motors and run something much smaller like maybe a compact tractor diesel.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 15, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> 2nd ram fitted


This looks like a really cool setup. Is there a way to balance the pressure on the cylinders or will the push plate have to take the burden of uneven load?


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 15, 2018)

muddstopper said:


> not sure what picture you need to see. Ill post a few and maybe have what you want.View attachment 680782
> View attachment 680783
> View attachment 680784
> View attachment 680785
> I thought I had some pic's of the wedge end, but guess I dont. I havent got back to working on it since these pic's where taken. Anyways, the wedge is made out of 3/4 t1 plate. the slide box is made out of a forklift hoist. It is 1/2in thick channel. I made the wedge just deep enough to slde inside the channel. Off the top of my head, I forget how wide the blade material is, 8inches I believe, each layer of wedges are set back 3 inches from the one in front so that the wood isnt striking all the wedges at one time. The slide box is setting on top of 1in thick plate that is welded to the bottom of the Hbeam. It will need additional braceing at the top to prevent the cyl from just pushing it off the beam. I figured on adding the additional braceing as I build the rest of the processor. I dont know if you can tell from the pic's, but my hbeam is capped and the sides plated with more 1/2in plate. The sides metal is actually welded in from flange to flange to form a box instead of just welded to the web of the beam. At the cyl mount base, I also welded in some gussets on each side to help hold the cyl mounts. Now that gardening is over with for the year, I might get a chance to start back on my build. I have most of what I need to finish it, just havent had the time or any real need to get it finished.


Wow that's substantial. I'll ask you the same question, is there a way to balance the load between the two cylinders or does the push plate have to deal with it? I thought about a twin cylinder setup but passed up on it because of the above. Smaller diameter cylinders are so much easier to deal with by far.


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## VirginiaIron (Nov 18, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> ... i love plasma cutters.....



That is on my short list of equipment to purchase.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 18, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> That is on my short list of equipment to purchase.



I bought one 6 or 7 years ago, used it a few times, it **** the bed, got a warranty replacement, never bothered to even wire the plug on it. Been sitting in a corner for a couple years.

I prefer using the metal cutting skill saw or a whizz wheel and grinder. Or torch.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Nov 19, 2018)

Agreed. Even with the thick steel I'm using on this build I still prefer a cutting wheel rather then a torch or plasma cutter. I just like those clean edges. I actually have a 9"x18" Johnson horizontal bandsaw that I haven't used in years. I had it in a shop and it's a 480 Volt machine, but the motor swap is easy. Definitely a more practical way to cut thick steel.


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## TONYRB (Dec 1, 2018)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> I bought one 6 or 7 years ago, used it a few times, it **** the bed, got a warranty replacement, never bothered to even wire the plug on it. Been sitting in a corner for a couple years.
> 
> I prefer using the metal cutting skill saw or a whizz wheel and grinder. Or





SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Agreed. Even with the thick steel I'm using on this build I still prefer a cutting wheel rather then a torch or plasma cutter. I just like those clean edges. I actually have a 9"x18" Johnson horizontal bandsaw that I haven't used in years. I had it in a shop and it's a 480 Volt machine, but the motor swap is easy. Definitely a more practical way to cut thick steel.





SmellyPirateHooker said:


> Agreed. Even with the thick steel I'm using on this build I still prefer a cutting wheel rather then a torch or plasma cutter. I just like those clean edges. I actually have a 9"x18" Johnson horizontal bandsaw that I haven't used in years. I had it in a shop and it's a 480 Volt machine, but the motor swap is easy. Definitely a more practical way to cut thick steel.


Yea a band saw would be awesome


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## TONYRB (Dec 1, 2018)

been a busy few weeks few other projects complete and out of the shed... hopefully ill have a bit time to get this up and running... all tacked together, will zap it up with a 400a flux core mig with co2 gas, my welders getting a bit small for 20mm boron steel


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## TONYRB (Dec 1, 2018)

ill slide the cutting box between the 2 uc. planning on running the h beam up the back of the rams this week and fitting rhs over the top


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 2, 2018)

I've welded plenty of 1/2" and 3/4" with a 175 amp MIG. Just takes beveling, multiple passes and pre-heating helps too.

Not sure I understand the reason for the 4 small splits and then 12 big honking ones.


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## TONYRB (Dec 2, 2018)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> I've welded plenty of 1/2" and 3/4" with a 175 amp MIG. Just takes beveling, multiple passes and pre-heating helps too.
> 
> Not sure I understand the reason for the 4 small splits and then 12 big honking ones.


Google hotasswood.com or 16way wood splitters. Or look at the cord king 16 way splitter. Same design this is just our first cutting box- plenty more options to add more blades or make another box as they just slide in and out. But ill try it with the 16 way first. That be 48 pieces in 1 push- if it works....


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## TONYRB (Dec 2, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> That is on my short list of equipment to purchase.


 Yea i love it, the pic is just cutting free hand, ajusted my hand twice and carry on. Thats 20mm thick boron and 200mm long cut around in 40 seconds. If you want it smoother run the plasma along a straight steel edge. Iv only done all up an hour or 2 of plasma cutting but yea lern how to use the tool and its awesome


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## TONYRB (Dec 2, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> Yea i love it, the pic is just cutting free hand, ajusted my hand twice and carry on. Thats 20mm thick boron and 200mm long cut around in 40 seconds. If you want it smoother run the plasma along a straight steel edge. Iv only done all up an hour or 2 of plasma cutting but yea lern the tool and irs awesome


This is a pic of the free hand piece after 30 seconds of grinding. But yea if you want it cleaner ya just need to clamp an edge to run along. Makes a fast job dont have to worry about how low ya gas bottle is n saves ya cutting discs for when ya dont want to use the plasma.


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## SmellyPirateHooker (Dec 2, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> View attachment 687571
> been a busy few weeks few other projects complete and out of the shed... hopefully ill have a bit time to get this up and running... all tacked together, will zap it up with a 400a flux core mig with co2 gas, my welders getting a bit small for 20mm boron steel


Wow nice! Yeah one advantage I have is one of my welders is a Miller 330 A/BP which (if I remember right) is 100% duty at 330 amps and spikes upwards of 600. I'm not out running it even on 2" plate. I tell you though, if I was to ever go into production using steel as heavy as 1" to 2" I'd surely get a big mig and set it up solely for Flux core. I wouldn't use the machine for anything else, just the thick stuff.


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## TONYRB (Dec 3, 2018)

Started the top and back support today. Just did the 1 support threw the middle with 90mm by 150mm rhs to make it easyer to load up with ring with the bobcat bucket. Will add some morw support


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## TONYRB (Dec 12, 2018)




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## TONYRB (Dec 12, 2018)

few more pics, I'm on my 3rd roll of 15kg wire- lost count of how many gas bottles used... still need to add support to the tipping table weld on some uc column on the back of the cutting area for the axle/conveyor, will connect it up to our skid steer for a test over the next few day - see if the wood pushed threw the cutting knives and if the cutting knives hold together . I have got some half dry gum and camellia in the paddock i need to split to get dry for next season, if it splits that well it will be stage 2- building the conveyor.


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## KiwiBro (Dec 12, 2018)

Nice one Tony. So this is like a primary breakdown splitter, then resplit on another splitter to final size?


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 12, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> Google hotasswood.com or 16way wood splitters. Or look at the cord king 16 way splitter. Same design this is just our first cutting box- plenty more options to add more blades or make another box as they just slide in and out. But ill try it with the 16 way first. That be 48 pieces in 1 push- if it works....



Interesting outfit. I quickly looked though it, looks like a Bells processor.

Seems like it'd end up with alot of tiny wood. I use a 6 way and it's not too often I have to resplit anything.
One of the outfits out this way has the 12 way? wedge on a Cord King (or maybe it is 16). Anyhow, if you want to make a cord of wood and have 3-4 wheelbarrows of splinters, that's the way to do it.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 13, 2018)

Also is there a way you can make the photos larger? They show up like 1" square and I can't hardly tell what is going on.


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## TONYRB (Dec 13, 2018)

KiwiBro said:


> Nice one Tony. So this is like a primary breakdown splitter, then resplit on another splitter to final size?



Hey kiwibro, na it completes it in the 1 push. We just ran our first ring threw, 500mm in diameter dry gum ring we got 4 triangle center pieces at 210mm by 150mm by 150mm - happy as with the size and 12 out side pieces 120mm long on the sides and 70mm 1 end and 120mm the other. very happy with the sizing from a 500mm ring, 

think i fluked the knife measurements as the center pieces are a quite decent size, outside are medium could be larger or smaller which the rings size will determine. 

at 3000 psi (we pressure checked) the bobcat struggled big time to push it threw , it gave in and started going threw but I hadn't filled in the gap on the inside of the h beam inside the knives so the wood hit the inside of the h beam so we stopt. I new it need to be done i didn't think the ring would split out that wide. 

next job - pull out the knife box, box out the edge that sits in the h beam and grind up some of my welds to help the wood not get hooked up and we will try 3 rings and take a video and load it up 

I need to re try with some wet rings and see how she splits. the gum wasn't knotty but the rings were seasoned drying since july, will try it over the next few months splitting different wood on 3000 psi and see how it goes.

it will need a power pack to run everything so we can up the psi once conveyors complete if need be... now i'm thinking it needs a log table i need to stop thinking cause it can split 3 rings me log table needs 3 hydraulic chain saws. the chain saws do the 3 cuts a ram angles the 3 cut pieces into the chamber pushes threw 48 pieces fall out pulls back 3 more ring fall in.... i don't think we will go that far but i want to....


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## TONYRB (Dec 13, 2018)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> Interesting outfit. I quickly looked though it, looks like a Bells processor.
> 
> Seems like it'd end up with alot of tiny wood. I use a 6 way and it's not too often I have to resplit anything.
> One of the outfits out this way has the 12 way? wedge on a Cord King (or maybe it is 16). Anyhow, if you want to make a cord of wood and have 3-4 wheelbarrows of splinters, that's the way to do it
> ...


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## TONYRB (Dec 13, 2018)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> Also is there a way you can make the photos larger? They show up like 1" square and I can't hardly tell what is going on.





ChoppyChoppy said:


> Also is there a way you can make the photos larger? They show up like 1" square and I can't hardly tell what is going on.



Have you tried clicking on the photo. that works for me on this site ?


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## VirginiaIron (Dec 13, 2018)

Very, very nice. I want one. Are you going to fill in the channels? Seems to me some of the side splits are going to get logged in the channel and cause obstructions.
EDIT: Sorry, I had not read further down to see you already encountered this issue. 3 posts up.


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## VirginiaIron (Dec 13, 2018)

FWIW- Its a lot easier for me to say that it is an easy fix. Modify or replace the channel/ H beam and add two flanges on your box wedge.


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## KiwiBro (Dec 13, 2018)

Wow, you can get away with split sizes that would be too big here. I'd have to put a secondary set of knives behind the first.


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## TONYRB (Dec 13, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> FWIW- Its a lot easier for me to say that it is an easy fix. Modify or replace the channel/ H beam and add two flanges on your box wedge.
> 
> View attachment 689971


Hello virginialron. Yea i new it needed to be done. Had my hydraulic guy come out so i couldnt help my self we had to have a test run. Tbh i didnt think the ring would of split out to the h beam will have a play over the weeknd hopfully


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## TONYRB (Dec 13, 2018)

KiwiBro said:


> Wow, you can get away with split sizes that would be too big here. I'd have to put a secondary set of knives behind the first.


 
Ill take a pics of the sizes kiwi bro and load up for ya.


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## TONYRB (Dec 15, 2018)

Ran out of steel so i boxed out the lower sections and had to have another test. Dry gum is so hard im having trouble splitting 500mm ring into 16 pieces.... i will try some wet woods be for i go back to the drawing board on the box cutter design. Link below to us trying to split dry gum


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## TONYRB (Dec 15, 2018)

Thats 3000psi- 26ton per ram. Im hoping wet pine will slice threw and hopfully mack will to.. ????


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## VirginiaIron (Dec 15, 2018)

It appears the wedge is adjustable up and down. FWIW, is it easier to remove most of the H beam and leave enough lip to carry the edge of the wedge? If you need more H beam support can you could add ramps/deflectors inside the wedge to accommodate the distance of the exposed flange of the H beam.
-1st drawing depicts ramps/deflectors.
- 2nd drawing depicts reduced Flange on H beam.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 15, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> Have you tried clicking on the photo. that works for me on this site ?



I've tried many times, whatever program makes the tiny pics just opens a black screen on my computer with nothing on it. On my phone the several times I've tried it seizes up and I have to pull the battery out and reboot it.

When they are loaded regular I see them fine.


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## VirginiaIron (Dec 15, 2018)

Mine does that sometimes but I think it is due to a slow connection and the router disconnecting and reconnecting.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 15, 2018)

I can see the video. Big machine!

I like building stuff like that, just in the last 5-6 years have shelved most projects to process firewood and log.


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## muddstopper (Dec 15, 2018)

There sounds to be a lot of binding going on with that split. I would throw another round on and just look and see which part of the wedge the wood seems to be binding most. I dont know what kind of gum you are splitting, but I know black gum around here is about the only thing that even slows my splitter down. Its just hard to split, I split mostly oaks, whiteoak is tough and stringy but my splitter will bust it or mush it


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## VirginiaIron (Dec 15, 2018)

muddstopper said:


> There sounds to be a lot of binding going on with that split. I would throw another round on and just look and see which part of the wedge the wood seems to be binding most. I dont know what kind of gum you are splitting, but I know black gum around here is about the only thing that even slows my splitter down. Its just hard to split, I split mostly oaks, whiteoak is tough and stringy but my splitter will bust it or mush it


What I see is the splits turning/rotating outward toward the larger portion of the wedge's opening. Those splits to be concerned about, imo, are the splits closest to the H beam and the rear section that forms a cavity or wall against the split. To me, the chatter-like sound sound is the typical wood on metal friction/splitting/tearing action. The round size compared to the wedge is limited due to the front face of the H beams restricting the opening. It looks like a longer round may work better with the larger wedge openings on the outer edges.


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## VirginiaIron (Dec 15, 2018)

@TONYRB- For the record, your splitter is very nice and I would like to have one, my comments and or suggestions are in no way intended to negatively criticize you, your progress, and or your design. My comments are more like those within a think-tank to help propel you (a fellow craftsman/builder) to greater success. VI


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## KiwiBro (Dec 15, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> Ran out of steel so i boxed out the lower sections and had to have another test. Dry gum is so hard im having trouble splitting 500mm ring into 16 pieces.... i will try some wet woods be for i go back to the drawing board on the box cutter design. Link below to us trying to split dry gum



Dry gum is a tough ask for any splitter, even worse if the grain is also twisted. Can you stagger the knife edges a little bit? There's a point quite early on where the pressure peaks and once the wood is cracked the pressure drops off a cliff (unless it's a stringy bastid or the splits are binding on the walls of the knives). At the point where the pressure drops off, check how far the wood has progressed passed the front edge of the knives and slightly less than that distance is about what sort of stagger is useful. It may mean that you'll have to punch some splits through the knives with the next ring/round that goes through, thus on your last round of the day the splits might stay in the knife unless you whack 'em out with a sledgehammer.

On split sizes, to avoid complaints, here essentially the splits have to be able to fit through a 5x5 hole cut in plywood. Anything bigger than that and someone is going to get their knickers in a twist,


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## VirginiaIron (Dec 15, 2018)

"... On split sizes, to avoid complaints, here essentially the splits have to be able to fit through a 5x5 hole cut in plywood. Anything bigger than that and someone is going to get their knickers in a twist,"
Lol


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## Bwildered (Dec 15, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> Ran out of steel so i boxed out the lower sections and had to have another test. Dry gum is so hard im having trouble splitting 500mm ring into 16 pieces.... i will try some wet woods be for i go back to the drawing board on the box cutter design. Link below to us trying to split dry gum



From the looks of it your outer centre cutter sections have parallel sides front to rear, the split timber is being compressed to fit through the aperture & that is cause of the chattering sound, the cutters need to be splayed outwards from front to back to allow clearance for the centre wood to not bind after being split .
Thanski


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## TONYRB (Dec 15, 2018)

Bwildered said:


> From the looks of it your outer centre cutter sections have parallel sides front to rear, the split timber is being compressed to fit through the aperture & that is cause of the chattering sound, the cutters need to be splayed outwards from front to back to allow clearance for the centre wood to not bind after being split .
> Thanski


Hey every 1 thank you for all the comments I will study them it is all helpfull infomation. I do appreciate comments and ideas. The 4 centre holes get wider as it gose threw. But it only has a 12mm lift at the exit end which i dont think is enuff. I have spent hours cleaning up the welds and need to spend more time grinding down the welds in the inner triangle areas. I will stick to this cutting box for a while but wish now i stagered the blades more... i did plan to but ended up not stagering them as much as i should of. I need to strengthen the 2 front h beams as a flange has moved 2ish mm out. So i will finsih of that end befor push again


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## TONYRB (Dec 15, 2018)

Hmm


VirginiaIron said:


> It appears the wedge is adjustable up and down. FWIW, is it easier to remove most of the H beam and leave enough lip to carry the edge of the wedge? If you need more H beam support can you could add ramps/deflectors inside the wedge to accommodate the distance of the exposed flange of the H beam.
> -1st drawing depicts ramps/deflectors.
> - 2nd drawing depicts reduced Flange on H beam.
> 
> ...





Bwildered said:


> From the looks of it your outer centre cutter sections have parallel sides front to rear, the split timber is being compressed to fit through the aperture & that is cause of the chattering sound, the cutters need to be splayed outwards from front to back to allow clearance for the centre wood to not bind after being split .
> Thanski


Thanks for ideas bwildered, the 4 internal triangle cuts rear rises up 12mm on the rear from yhe front eage.
I do have the internal coner wellds they still are catching on. Need some new dremel burrs and ill tidy them up


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## muddstopper (Dec 15, 2018)

One thing I have noticed on my own splitter builds is how much stagger or set back is really needed on the wedge design. With knife wedges it seems you need more stagger than you do with a spreader type wedge. Without enough stagger, you are basicly trying to mash the wood apart. Without enough stagger, the first wedge has started the split, but the knife s still slicing and then the next set of knifes contact the wood and it puts every thing in a bind. The first split is still trying to spread but cant because the second set of wedges is holding everthing together and the same for the third set of wedges . I kind of found, and this isnt exact, that it takes about 4 inches of stagger or set back to eliminate all the binding. With a wedge with 16 knifes, 8 halves, that would be about 16inches of blade width from the leading edge of the first blade to the leading edge of the last set of knifes. This isnt really practical so I guess one has to rely on a certain amount of brute force to push the wood thru the wedges. I think I ended up with 3 inches of setback per set of knifes on my 6 way. Another thing I kind of observed is the narrower the blades, not the thickness of the blade, the better they work in a box wedge design. If your box wedge is 16in deep, you dont need 16inches of blade depth to reach from the front to the back. The more metal you can take out of the inside of the box the less binding, and the easier the wood will pass thru. Just dont make the knifes so narrow you cant weld them properly.


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## TONYRB (Dec 15, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> It appears the wedge is adjustable up and down. FWIW, is it easier to remove most of the H beam and leave enough lip to carry the edge of the wedge? If you need more H beam support can you could add ramps/deflectors inside the wedge to accommodate the distance of the exposed flange of the H beam.
> -1st drawing depicts ramps/deflectors.
> - 2nd drawing depicts reduced Flange on H beam.
> 
> ...





VirginiaIron said:


> It appears the wedge is adjustable up and down. FWIW, is it easier to remove most of the H beam and leave enough lip to carry the edge of the wedge? If you need more H beam support can you could add ramps/deflectors inside the wedge to accommodate the distance of the exposed flange of the H beam.
> -1st drawing depicts ramps/deflectors.
> - 2nd drawing depicts reduced Flange on H beam.
> 
> ...


 Thats a good idea. I spent few hours yesterday boxing out that area in the cutting box to run along the inside edge. But yes the opening area is 800mm wide by 1m deep. With the 500mm ring going threw a bit off centre it was rubbing hard againgst the hbeam in another push i did. Where the cutting bux pushes against on the hbeam its bent it out 2mm ish so im going to fit rsh running across the top and just add strenght. I did see the main h beam flex upwards under the rams when it couldnt push a ring threw. No twist just a slight upwards flex in the center


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## TONYRB (Dec 15, 2018)

muddstopper said:


> One thing I have noticed on my own splitter builds is how much stagger or set back is really needed on the wedge design. With knife wedges it seems you need more stagger than you do with a spreader type wedge. Without enough stagger, you are basicly trying to mash the wood apart. Without enough stagger, the first wedge has started the split, but the knife s still slicing and then the next set of knifes contact the wood and it puts every thing in a bind. The first split is still trying to spread but cant because the second set of wedges is holding everthing together and the same for the third set of wedges . I kind of found, and this isnt exact, that it takes about 4 inches of stagger or set back to eliminate all the binding. With a wedge with 16 knifes, 8 halves, that would be about 16inches of blade width from the leading edge of the first blade to the leading edge of the last set of knifes. This isnt really practical so I guess one has to rely on a certain amount of brute force to push the wood thru the wedges. I think I ended up with 3 inches of setback per set of knifes on my 6 way. Another thing I kind of observed is the narrower the blades, not the thickness of the blade, the better they work in a box wedge design. If your box wedge is 16in deep, you dont need 16inches of blade depth to reach from the front to the back. The more metal you can take out of the inside of the box the less binding, and the easier the wood will pass thru. Just dont make the knifes so narrow you cant weld them properly.


Nice muddstopper. Yea my blades are 20mm thick. I agree with you. If i do have to make another box cutter there will be a bit of design that takes it out the back floating past the hbeam to get more staggered lenght. I planed to have more stagger once i got the cutting blades they were over 150 kgs i thought **** i need to cut the width down to loose weight. I lost some stager to try loose weight on the cutting box and its still over 200kgs... think i should of gone 15mm cutting blades.


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## TONYRB (Dec 15, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> @TONYRB- For the record, your splitter is very nice and I would like to have one, my comments and or suggestions are in no way intended to negatively criticize you, your progress, and or your design. My comments are more like those within a think-tank to help propel you (a fellow craftsman/builder) to greater success. VI


All good Thank you. Yes as we do we google and do our home work for projects ect but i find this site have been very helpfull with ideas so all good love to get the feedback


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## TONYRB (Dec 15, 2018)

muddstopper said:


> There sounds to be a lot of binding going on with that split. I would throw another round on and just look and see which part of the wedge the wood seems to be binding most. I dont know what kind of gum you are splitting, but I know black gum around here is about the only thing that even slows my splitter down. Its just hard to split, I split mostly oaks, whiteoak is tough and stringy but my splitter will bust it or mush it


Cheers muddstopper once iv strenghtend the 2 h beams ill do that and watch cairfully.


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## TONYRB (Dec 15, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> "... On split sizes, to avoid complaints, here essentially the splits have to be able to fit through a 5x5 hole cut in plywood. Anything bigger than that and someone is going to get their knickers in a twist,"
> Lol


I noticed i gota couple big pices over 5x5 on a push. The ring wasnt centre and binded all the way out. The side that binded needed to be split in half. Whitch is all good i can raise the box to use a part of the blade that is 2 way- a quick way on splitting stuff that need re splitting can be done on sale box cutter


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## TONYRB (Dec 15, 2018)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> I can see the video. Big machine!
> 
> I like building stuff like that, just in the last 5-6 years have shelved most projects to process firewood and log.


Cheers choppy im hoping time 1 day will be spent on prossing the wood.. i like projects but the amount of time this thing has taken to build is alot. I can see why prosessors r so expensive


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## muddstopper (Dec 15, 2018)

TONYRB said:


> Nice muddstopper. Yea my blades are 20mm thick. I agree with you. If i do have to make another box cutter there will be a bit of design that takes it out the back floating past the hbeam to get more staggered lenght. I planed to have more stagger once i got the cutting blades they were over 150 kgs i thought **** i need to cut the width down to loose weight. I lost some stager to try loose weight on the cutting box and its still over 200kgs... think i should of gone 15mm cutting blades.


nothing wrong with 20mm thick. I make all my blades out of 3/4 plate. mostly because I had a bunch of it. What I was talking about is the width of the blade, not the thickness. Another thing I dont like about your box is the slide the box goes into. I know you have already addressed the issue of the splits sticking inside the hbeam flanges. I built my slide out of old fork lift booms. The channel was 3/4 thick. I simply used on piece each side on the back edge to push against and used 2x4 box tubing for the front of the slide. I tied it together using 1in plate at the bottom welded under the beam and extending far enough off the beam for the box and slide to set on and tied the top of the slide together with another piece of 1in plate. I will add bracing to keep the cyl from pushing the box off the beam. I am sure my set up is a lot lighter than yours. One thng to consider is if the box is supported well at the bottom and top, which yours looks to be, 70 tons isnt that hard to control. I think in your case, as choppychoppy would say, where you need 1/4 in plate, use 1/2 plate and make it logger tough, yours I think exceeds even choppy's specifications.


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## VirginiaIron (Dec 16, 2018)

I agree on the blade setback. Can you add this depth up front on the center of the wedge? With four of the center blades protruding, most of your split stresses will at least be halved or quartered.


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## TONYRB (Dec 23, 2018)

VirginiaIron said:


> I agree on the blade setback. Can you add this depth up front on the center of the wedge? With four of the center blades protruding, most of your split stresses will at least be halved or quartered.


 Theres no more room to out the front to extend the blade. Iv found some bindng areas. Currently the wood is binding 50mm-2" back from the cutting edge. I will keep grinding it out till im happy and retest. Iv tidyed up alot of the internal welds. We have fitted under a rear axle to see how it sits- im happy with it for now. Axle will come back out now and more welding...


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## TONYRB (Jan 23, 2019)

Hello.. heres a bit of an up date.

I noticed the H beam flange had moved a few mm from the pressure of the knife box pushing against it, - We fixed this issue with the extra gussets on the sides and front of the H beam and boxing the top of the H-beams together.

The main H beam had some flex when under pressure which made the top rhs move under pressure also when a full size dry gum ring wouldn't go threw- I had a piece of heavy channel sitting in the hedge, it fitted perfect over the top rhs and welded it up. I added some extra rhs supports from the top rhs to the 2 H beams the cutting box sits in. - Their is now no flex any where when the dry gum wont push threw. - nothing is flexing or moving when under 3000psi/ 53.7 ton of pressure..

we finished off the tow hitch, and had a re test with some cedar i picked up.

The cedar sliced to pieces but i had to re try the gum. The dry gum binded up on the sides- when its binded up i can easy unblock it by placing a smaller piece where its binded and push that threw..... with our cutter box design the wood on the side don't fall out, the next piece twist them and they jam up :/
The cedar ended up being to dry and against the gum it just crumbled....

After a while the gum where it gets jammed pushed threw the 200 mm by 250 mm by 5mm thick steel plate and wood started to add pressure to the inside of the h beam......not good. it was fully welded around the plate with good
penetration.

I want to redesign the cutting box google "pezzolato genius wedge" all our teething difficulties are coming down to our wedge design, and i recon that the pezzolato genius wedge will fix our issues. I can cut out the pizza on our first box so its just the cross for the first cut for the pezzolato genius wedge, weld that box in place and add an extra box to the outside of the h beams and weld in place. That will fix the sides jamming up and less tonnage with adding the bigger stept gaps between each cut.

I just had elbow surgery so I was trying to get it complete be for the surgery. I could be out of action for quite a while. Iv rang a local engineer to come have see if he can price finishing the knife box. iv spent over 40 hours making and welding and grinding the first 1. but i don't really want to put me arm threw lifting the heavy stuff n stuffing my arm again.. will see his pricing may be ill have to.

 **** video but how it looked before we strengthen it in the above pics. i recon the pezzolato genius wedge will fix it.. But re designed to 6x6=24 pieces

What u guys recon 4" square pieces or 5" square pieces. 4" looks small and 5 looks big may be 4"x5" or any other ideas on designs, pezzolato genius wedge is on the top of the list. All the pizza box cutters I see working, the quarter blades are all cut out so the wood falls NOT JAM UP WHERE OURS IS JAMMING, I just cant cut the strength out of that design iv currently got.


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## VirginiaIron (Jan 23, 2019)

Yes, the splits fall out due to the available space in the secondary wedge once the split is opened by the 4 way. The sled design ensures that all forces have been neutralized, and cleared from the first wedge, essentially resetting the cycle. One can see where the forces build up and the system builds pressure. I wonder how longer rounds might react? That is a nice design.


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## VirginiaIron (Jan 23, 2019)

How much surface area do you have with your wedge? Is 54 tons enough?


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## TONYRB (Jan 25, 2019)

VirginiaIron said:


> How much surface area do you have with your wedge? Is 54 tons enough?


 we are about to put a power pack together and stop using the skid steer, im working on 3500 psi at this stage which will take it up to 62 ton if we need it.. More tonnage isn't going to fix our problem written above but it will help push threw the wood if we need it on the next design cutting box


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