# The MS261 is here!!



## blsnelling

Yup, I went and did it. I had my dealer check with the distributor early this week with no luck. Then Andre and Nik checked with their dealer and got a different story. A couple days later, and good persistence by their dealer pressing the distrubtor, I've finally got a MS261. Just yesterday they still didn't even have a price in the system. These babies are hot off the rack.

Why am I so excited about this model? Despite catching plenty of flack for calling Stihl out where I feel they fall short, I'm still a pretty hard core Stihlhead. Yes, I wear orange goggles, but I don't wear blinders. For the last couple of years, I've probably worn you guys out going on and on about the 346XP. It is my favorite saw, the most impressive saw on the market, once modded. IMHO, a fellow only really needs two saws, 50cc and 70-80cc. So this class of saw is very important to me. I'd love to see Stihl take back the crown of the 50cc class. The MS260 just doesn't have what it takes to keep up with the 346, or even the 5100. I'd love to see this 261 surpass the 346, only because I love Stihls. They're all great saws, but this is fun seeing a new kid on the block with potential.

So, straight from the dealer to the wood lot, we had to test it out. We were all impressed, to say the least. It's super strong in the cut. Very impressive. It's smooth as silk as well. The filter is the best I have ever seen on a saw. It twist locks on and seals with a rubber lip. NO dust should get past this filter. Andre has the video of it's first cuts and should be posting them tomorrow. I'll be putting several tanks of fuel through it tomorrow and should have more pics and vids. 

It's nice to have friends to share with. Both Andre and Nik met me at the dealer. I think they enjoyed it as much as I did. We were all three like kids in a candy store. Thanks guys!

For now, here are the obligatory partial disassembly/inspection shots.


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## Shayne

Nice, can't wait to see the vids!


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## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> For the last couple of years, I've probably worn you guys out going on and on about the 346XP.



Yep......

Im anxious to see and hear your input.


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## blsnelling




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## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


>



Is that the limiter cap???


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## blsnelling




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## blsnelling




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## blsnelling




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## blsnelling




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## tlandrum

nice, i am with wiggs on that limiter thingy,whats the deal


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## wigglesworth

Im also curious if its rev-limited....??


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## blsnelling

Yes, that's the limiter cap on the H needle. There's a better picture of it farther down. It pulled out easily with a long drywall screw. It's indexed on the needle. The OD of the cap has a vertical ridge. The ID of the hold in the carb body also has a vertical ridge. When the two hit, that's it, so a little less than 1 full turn of adjustment. Interestingly enough, the way the cap is indexed on the needle, you can't remove it move the needle richer, and then reinstall the cap to give richer adjustment. The vertical ridge on the OD of the cap has to be ground off to give clearance inside the hold in the carb, such that it won't hit the ridge in the carb body. Yes, I've already made the mod. The saw was a little bit leaner than I wanted for break in, although well within spec.


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## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> Im also curious if its rev-limited....??



I don't think so, but I haven't had it past 14,000. I've got it tuned to 13,500 for the first tank of two. It's nearly all 4 stroke at that RPM. The 4-stroke is very difficult to hear. I think it's a combination of a stock muffler as well as being a strato engine. I also noticed that the L needles to be just off peak RPMs for the best throttle response, leaner than I would normally be. 1/4 turn back from peak RPMs would be too rich and give poor throttle response.


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## blsnelling

The captured bar nuts are slick. No more loosing them in the snow or grass. No fumbling around getting them started. I've got a vid uploading showing how easy they are to work.

The air filter looks to be primo. Time sill tell how well it filters, but it looks like it will filter finer than most, but has much greater media surface are to provide plenty of flow.

The muffler is completely hollow, except for the internal tube leading to the outlet hole. I'm very anxious to open up the muffler and let it breathe!

I did see some very familiar design characteristics Check out the air duct from the flywheel area, the chock/throttle interlock, and the rearward rubber carb mounts.

The master control switch is completely different from the traditional Stihl shaft style. I'm not sure how it compares to the 441 and 362. I haven't seen enough of those to remember.

I love the single barrel carb. Makes it less complicated and more compact than that on the 441 and 362.

The front wall of the carb housing removes with only one screw, giving open access to the intake elbow. No more fishing the boot through the carb housing.

The one thing I was very disappointed to see, is that it does not appear to have a Mahle cylinder. I thought that with it being a new pro model saw, that it would at least start out with a Mahle top end. Evidentally not.


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## wigglesworth

You happen to get a weight on it?


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## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> You happen to get a weight on it?



Not yet. I'm out of town for the weekend. I actually delayed out leaving by several hours just so that I could pick up this saw

BTW, I will be comparing this saw to a new stock 346XP. At most, they will have muffler mods, and a unlimited coil on the 346. I'll then port both and compare again.


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## Phil_C

blsnelling said:


> The master control switch is completely different from the traditional Stihl shaft style. I'm not sure how it compares to the 441 and 362. I haven't seen enough of those to remember.



Similar to the MS362 but entirely different to the MS441.

Can you see who made the cylinder if not Mahle?

Regards

Phil


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## blsnelling

Phil_C said:


> Similar to the MS362 but entirely different to the MS441.
> 
> Can you see who made the cylinder if not Mahle?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Phil



It would be Stihl, like many of the other models are going to as well.


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## Shayne

Great review! Great pictures!:yourock:


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## 2dogs

Great pics. Thanks!

Next time you are at your dealer ask him for on of those display mats. Wouldn't want to scratch that nice table.


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## blsnelling

I'm heading to bed. I've got wood to cut in the morning


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## Andyshine77

Darn I thought I was going to have more fun with this. 

I've got to say the 261 is better than I expected. First it feels plenty light, it also has great throttle response for any new saw, especially for a new strato saw. This may be too early in the game, but I think it does have more power than my 346, and it has great torque for a 50cc saw. Remember my 346 has a MM and non limited coil. Time will prove or disprove my currant opinions. I don't think it handles like the 346, but it's a close call, better than most Stihl's in that respect. 

Anyway here's the full vid of Brad's 261 in the wood.. We were cutting hard dry Oak, and some hard maple.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dYdiJe5X7Fo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dYdiJe5X7Fo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


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## dingeryote

Woohooo!!!!!

First on the Block with the new toy!!!!!!!LOL!!

If I can ask, and before Nikko starts nagging politely, could ya toss the thing on the scales before ya go to hogging around with the burr?

I don't want to hear "Yeah it was 11.7lbs before ya took a pound out of the jug", and ya just know it will come up.LOL!!!

That filter is interesting the way they have it fastened.
I kinda like it. Looks about the same size as a 395xp Filter.:hmm3grin2orange:

Cool points galore on the captured bar nuts!

Little known fact is that 50% of the bar nuts cannot be tamed, and will escape to the wild at first opportunity, especially during Bar nut mating season in december through Mid March when they seek thier mates in deep snow.

The question is, how hard are they to replace when they get boogered?
Thall is gonna have a ball with them things...:biggrinbounce2:

Thanks for doin' a MM but otherwise stock comparo Brad!
Should be interesting to follow all the way through.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Honkie

I aint diggin all the #### on the intake...............


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## MacLaren

lookin good guys....really lookin good! Thats a very impressive saw. I especially enjoyed watching it cut noodles. No clogg at all! My 660 would clogg almost instantly......This could be the new king of the 50cc saws.....


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## MacLaren

gonna make for one awesome showdown betwen the 346 and the 261!
Cant wait!


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## Erick

Sorry guys gotta post and run but ........

Oooooo daddy likes.


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## FATGUY

well I gotta tell you boys I'm just thrilled with the 261. What neither Andre nor Brad will tell you is I was at my dealer first! I go in the back door and as soon as I walked in, there she was on the bench. I walked right into the work area and my dealer says; "Grab a scrench and take the top cover and the bar nuts off" I grab a crench and he comes over and starts; I said "No worries Don, I saw it on youtube, I know how to take the top cover off and I know about the captive nuts". He looks at me and says "it's on youtube already?!?!?!?!" yup and on AS! Anyhow, I LOVE THE 261! IMHO Stihl has recaptured the 50cc saw crown once again! In the late 80's Stihl captured everyones heart with the venerable 026 (one of my own persoonal favorites) with the latest releases from Husky and Dolmar, she fell by the wayside. Not so now! It does weigh slightly more than the 026/260 but it's LIGHTYEARS ahead in technology! I love it. Long live the King!


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## Uldis

The Stihl MS261 really is great! Have about only 5 tanks through mine (got it July 2010 for around 850$) and absolutely love it. Here we don't have many extra large trees, so 50cm3 class saws are most used. Have had MS260 from 2002 and on the first cut the difference in power and speed is very noticable although MS260 was well broken in and MS261 brand new (the RPM on stock saws have increased from 13500 RPM for MS260 to 14000 RPM for MS261). The anti-vibe compared to MS260 is a whole new game. The fatigue I get from vibrations of MS260 is much larger than fatigue from carrying that extra 0,4kg from MS261. The air - filter system is amazing - 5 tanks and I look at it after every tank and I go like: "When is it going to get dirty?!". But the most noticeable part is the fuel consumption. I cut and cut and it just keeps going. I admit - I often stopped just to look in gas tank and feels like it will cut for ages. Great saw! Until 555XP becomes available it definitely has taken the lead in 50cm3 class, despite being more expensive than competitors, but if I had to make the choice again - I would not doubt a second!


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## nmurph

thanks BSn, FG, and Andy!!! OCSM......... it looks like another hard day in the woods!!!!

i am awaiting the MM 346 comparo.

it does look strong, especially when it was noodling....it does look stronger than a 346.


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## BloodOnTheIce

looks like i'll be selling a mess of those saws. looks as strong as MS280 maybe stronger.


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## mdavlee

Looks pretty strong. I might have to run one of those one day.


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## SawTroll

Andyshine77 said:


> Darn I thought I was going to have more fun with this.
> 
> I've got to say the 261 is better than I expected. First it feels plenty light, it also has great throttle response for any new saw, especially for a new strato saw. This may be too early in the game, but I think it does have more power than my 346, and it has great torque for a 50cc saw. Remember my 346 has a MM and non limited coil. Time will prove or disprove my currant opinions. I don't think it handles like the 346, but it's a close call, better than most Stihl's in that respect.
> 
> Anyway here's the full vid of Brad's 261 in the wood.. We were cutting hard dry Oak, and some hard maple.
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dYdiJe5X7Fo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dYdiJe5X7Fo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



Looks like you guys had fun! 

Congrats to Brad!


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## SawTroll

dingeryote said:


> .....
> 
> The question is, how hard are they to replace when they get boogered?
> Thall is gonna have a ball with them things...:biggrinbounce2:
> 
> Thanks for doin' a MM but otherwise stock comparo Brad!
> Should be interesting to follow all the way through.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Another question, how do you take that clutch cover off with those nuts still on the bolts?


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## SawTroll

BloodOnTheIce said:


> looks like i'll be selling a mess of those saws. looks as strong as MS280 maybe stronger.



If it isn't, something is wrong!

...but I don't think there is any reason to worry!


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## stipes

*Sweet!!!*



Andyshine77 said:


> Darn I thought I was going to have more fun with this.
> 
> I've got to say the 261 is better than I expected. First it feels plenty light, it also has great throttle response for any new saw, especially for a new strato saw. This may be too early in the game, but I think it does have more power than my 346, and it has great torque for a 50cc saw. Remember my 346 has a MM and non limited coil. Time will prove or disprove my currant opinions. I don't think it handles like the 346, but it's a close call, better than most Stihl's in that respect.
> 
> Anyway here's the full vid of Brad's 261 in the wood.. We were cutting hard dry Oak, and some hard maple.
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dYdiJe5X7Fo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dYdiJe5X7Fo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



Congrats Brad!!! I like it!


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## spike60

Another good example of why we no longer have to fear the word "strato", huh? Let the good times roll.......:rockn:

Blood: Gonna have one by Thanksgiving?


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## jbighump

my dealer hasn't even heard anything about a 261:bang: guess ill have to drive to cincy to gets me one of those


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## SawTroll

jbighump said:


> my dealer hasn't even heard anything about a 261:bang: guess ill have to drive to cincy to gets me one of those



You need to educate him then!


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## Trigger-Time

Thanks for sharing guys!

Looks like this saw is going to break some hearts.........or piss a few off :hmm3grin2orange:





TT


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## Showme

What's the MSRP? I'm sure that's what my dealer will charge me since I want one!


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## 2000ssm6

She is looking good. I was hoping that hammer wasn't going to bounce back and hurt one of ya'll. Thanks guys.


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## Diesel Pro

blsnelling said:


> Not yet. I'm out of town for the weekend. I actually delayed out leaving by several hours just so that I could pick up this saw
> 
> BTW, I will be comparing this saw to a new stock 346XP. At most, they will have muffler mods, and a unlimited coil on the 346. I'll then port both and compare again.



If you need a fresh 346 candidate...


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## Trigger-Time

My 50th birthday is coming at the end of Nov.
Sure hoping I can get one by then.
May have to wait until Chirstmas.




TT


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## sunfish

Thanks for the info, Brad. I am mildly interested in this saw. We'll see... umpkin2:


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## Greenthorn

dingeryote said:


> Woohooo!!!!!
> 
> First on the Block with the new toy!!!!!!!LOL!!



Not really, STILLTHEDEERE had one 6 months ago....




> Another question, how do you take that clutch cover off with those nuts still on the bolts?



Nuts stay attached to clutch cover.



Pricing...?


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## blsnelling

Honkie said:


> I aint diggin all the #### on the intake...............


Yeah, I'm already thinking about what I can do with that.



Diesel Pro said:


> If you need a fresh 346 candidate...


I got an order for another new 346 last night. Do you already have one?


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## blsnelling

Showme said:


> What's the MSRP? I'm sure that's what my dealer will charge me since I want one!



I was expecting $549, if not slightly more. I got the saw for $519 with a free 2nd chain. So that's actually about $495. I asked what list was, thinking they had discounted it, and they said that was list. I'm gald to see they didn't jack the price way up.


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## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> Anyway here's the full vid of Brad's 261 in the wood.. We were cutting hard dry Oak, and some hard maple.



Thanks for the vid Andre. If I were at home today, I'm sure I'd be modding the muffler already. I just hate leaving HP on the table due to a choked up muffler.


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## FXDL

blsnelling said:


>



Is that a gatlin gun mounted on the carb? :biggrinbounce2:


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## blsnelling

FXDL said:


> Is that a gatlin gun mounted on the carb? :biggrinbounce2:



All I can see is a big restriction


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## BloodOnTheIce

spike60 said:


> Another good example of why we no longer have to fear the word "strato", huh? Let the good times roll.......:rockn:
> 
> Blood: Gonna have one by Thanksgiving?



Yep, bring the 560xp and we'll run 'em

Brad, What bar and chain is that one running?


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## porsche965

On the fourth picture above is that fine dust on the air filter brace/bracket that the filter installs onto? Or is just the finish different on the plastic?


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## BlackOakTreeServ

SWEEEEEET !!!! Looks like a winner :biggrinbounce2:


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## hybridkarpower

Lets see how well it holds up ! I did notice it's not made in Germany.


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## BloodOnTheIce

hybridkarpower said:


> Lets see how well it holds up ! I did notice it's not made in Germany.



Neither was the MS260. The Stihl German factory exports few saws to the US, 
MS200/T, 441, 460, 650/660, 880 the only ones I can think off hand, made in Grrrmany.


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## BlackOakTreeServ

Hey brad, is that .325 chain a 67 link on the 16" bar like the 260 pro??....or did they change it up?


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## brinkwolf

Very Nice, might call my Stihl dealer and see if they have them yet and what they sell them for.


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## banshee67

i love your cutting clothes snelling, at least you look good while doing it


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## super3

blsnelling said:


> If I were at home today, I'm sure I'd be modding the muffler already. I just hate leaving HP on the table due to a choked up muffler.




I know you are chomping at the bit but,


Run it with a bone stock 346 first, no mm's on either.

Then both with mm's.

Then both ported.


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## sunfish

super3 said:


> I know you are chomping at the bit but,
> 
> 
> Run it with a bone stock 346 first, no mm's on either.
> 
> Then both with mm's.
> 
> Then both ported.



:agree2:


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## Andyshine77

FATGUY said:


> well I gotta tell you boys I'm just thrilled with the 261. What neither Andre nor Brad will tell you is I was at my dealer first! I go in the back door and as soon as I walked in, there she was on the bench. I walked right into the work area and my dealer says; "Grab a scrench and take the top cover and the bar nuts off" I grab a crench and he comes over and starts; I said "No worries Don, I saw it on youtube, I know how to take the top cover off and I know about the captive nuts". He looks at me and says "it's on youtube already?!?!?!?!" yup and on AS! Anyhow, I LOVE THE 261! IMHO Stihl has recaptured the 50cc saw crown once again! In the late 80's Stihl captured everyones heart with the venerable 026 (one of my own persoonal favorites) with the latest releases from Husky and Dolmar, she fell by the wayside. Not so now! It does weigh slightly more than the 026/260 but it's LIGHTYEARS ahead in technology! I love it. Long live the King!



Easy there cowboy,:hmm3grin2orange: I think it's a bit premature to call this one case closed, I have my hunch, but at this point that's all the empirical data we have. However I do feel you may indeed be correct.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy

Thanks for the pics and the videos. At first glance, the MS261 holds the potential to become a new classic. Only time will tell.


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## porsche965

I've had an order in for two months now, still no delivery date as of yet. Sure looks good but will remain on the buy list as long as things check out with Brad and his posse of saw evaluators.


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## pgg

Always liked the old 026, they're a real strong workhorse saw, I used one in the bush for a few years as a thinning saw where the 60cc and 70cc saws rule, but the 026 big advantage you could travel light with half the gas and oil to lug around and so much lighter and maneuverable in sh!t terrain, the engine is tough man, working it's ring out on the bigger trees but just keeps on keeping on, end of the day so much more comfortable to be carrying and first thing in the morning a relief to travel with half the weight compared to 60cc and especially 70cc's. Don't quite get what the hyped-up "clinging" bar nuts are all about on this new 261 though, what's the difference? you've still got to remove them to take off the bar dont ya?


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## jeepyfz450

the cool part about the new bar nuts is that they always stay on the clutch cover so you cant drop them and lose them. not sure how they will hold up bet its definately a good idea.


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## porsche965

What I did observe of the video is that lack of any smoke at all...if the richness was increased would that increase power? Of course the EPA mandates "the clean burn" but still, was there any smell/smoke evident? 

Curious. Great video, and evaluations of a new saw. Good job, will await the further results. Thanks!


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## gink595

Nice looking saw, seems like it runs good too. I might have to see if I can run one at the local dealer, not sure I could force myself to throw that kind of money at it though!


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## chopperfreak2k1

super3 said:


> I know you are chomping at the bit but,
> 
> 
> Run it with a bone stock 346 first, no mm's on either.
> 
> Then both with mm's.
> 
> Then both ported.



me too, i wanna see factory vs. factory along with the rest.


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## pastryguyhawaii

Nice looking saw. Thanks for sharing this and I'm looking forward to the comparisons.


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## N-m

blsnelling said:


> Yup, I went and did it. I had my dealer check with the distributor early this week with no luck. Then Andre and Nik checked with their dealer and got a different story. A couple days later, and good persistence by their dealer pressing the distrubtor, I've finally got a MS261. Just yesterday they still didn't even have a price in the system. These babies are hot off the rack.
> 
> Why am I so excited about this model? Despite catching plenty of flack for calling Stihl out where I feel they fall short, I'm still a pretty hard core Stihlhead. Yes, I wear orange goggles, but I don't wear blinders. For the last couple of years, I've probably worn you guys out going on and on about the 346XP. It is my favorite saw, the most impressive saw on the market, once modded. IMHO, a fellow only really needs two saws, 50cc and 70-80cc. So this class of saw is very important to me. I'd love to see Stihl take back the crown of the 50cc class. The MS260 just doesn't have what it takes to keep up with the 346, or even the 5100. I'd love to see this 261 surpass the 346, only because I love Stihls. They're all great saws, but this is fun seeing a new kid on the block with potential.
> 
> So, straight from the dealer to the wood lot, we had to test it out. We were all impressed, to say the least. It's super strong in the cut. Very impressive. It's smooth as silk as well. The filter is the best I have ever seen on a saw. It twist locks on and seals with a rubber lip. NO dust should get past this filter. Andre has the video of it's first cuts and should be posting them tomorrow. I'll be putting several tanks of fuel through it tomorrow and should have more pics and vids.
> 
> It's nice to have friends to share with. Both Andre and Nik met me at the dealer. I think they enjoyed it as much as I did. We were all three like kids in a candy store. Thanks guys!
> 
> For now, here are the obligatory partial disassembly/inspection shots.



Sir,

I know I am not a reg here so my opinion doesn't count for much but my wife just walked by the computer and chewed me out b/c men have not respect for their wive's nice dinner tables. 

Would you mind continuing to post the great pics of the saw...in the shop, yard, I don't care but not the dinner table. Thanks. :bang::biggrinbounce2:


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## chopperfreak2k1

tn rat said:


> sir,
> 
> i know i am not a reg here so my opinion doesn't count for much but my wife just walked by the computer and chewed me out b/c men have not respect for their wive's nice dinner tables.
> 
> Would you mind continuing to post the great pics of the saw...in the shop, yard, i don't care but not the dinner table. Thanks. :bang::biggrinbounce2:



what????


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## brokenbudget

TN RAT said:


> Sir,
> 
> I know I am not a reg here so my opinion doesn't count for much but my wife just walked by the computer and chewed me out b/c men have not respect for their wive's nice dinner tables.
> 
> Would you mind continuing to post the great pics of the saw...in the shop, yard, I don't care but not the dinner table. Thanks. :bang::biggrinbounce2:



:hmm3grin2orange: i know what you mean! if i was to ever toss a saw on the dinner table (or coffee table for that matter) i'd be strung up by the little guy and flayed


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## PasoRoblesJimmy

porsche965 said:


> What I did observe of the video is that lack of any smoke at all...if the richness was increased would that increase power? Of course the EPA mandates "the clean burn" but still, was there any smell/smoke evident?
> 
> Curious. Great video, and evaluations of a new saw. Good job, will await the further results. Thanks!



Once a saw is warmed up, full-synthetic 2-mix does not smoke.
:greenchainsaw:


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## Harzack223

Well, I know what I'll be doing Monday morning, hopefully my dealer can work some magic.


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## chrisoppie

Nice, thanks for all the info. Enjoy


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## blsnelling

banshee67 said:


> i love your cutting clothes snelling, at least you look good while doing it


Lol, cutting wasn't in the plans. But you know how it is when a few saw nuts get together



super3 said:


> I know you are chomping at the bit but, run it with a bone stock 346 first, no mm's on either.
> 
> Then both with mm's.
> 
> Then both ported.


I'll try to do that.



porsche965 said:


> What I did observe of the video is that lack of any smoke at all...if the richness was increased would that increase power? Of course the EPA mandates "the clean burn" but still, was there any smell/smoke evident?


There shouldn't be any smoke once warmed up.



TN RAT said:


> Sir,
> 
> I know I am not a reg here so my opinion doesn't count for much but my wife just walked by the computer and chewed me out b/c men have not respect for their wive's nice dinner tables.
> 
> Would you mind continuing to post the great pics of the saw...in the shop, yard, I don't care but not the dinner table. Thanks. :bang::biggrinbounce2:


Lol, you don't know me. Should I post pics of saw parts in the dishwasher, or freshly painted once curing in the oven 



brokenbudget said:


> :hmm3grin2orange: i know what you mean! if i was to ever toss a saw on the dinner table (or coffee table for that matter) i'd be strung up by the little guy and flayed


The funny thing is, this isn't even my table. It's my wife's parents. I had the saw on news paper for the disassembled pics. Once I had it back together, I took the final complete saw pics without the paper. Nary a scratch was put on the table, even though that Oak did look a little tempting


----------



## blsnelling

The 261 makes a great bucket saw Pretty cool old Farmall H.







The old Willow blew down and needed removed. My BIL Sam and I got it all down this afternoon. I ran 1 1/2 tanks through the 261. Quite a few cuts were with the bar buried. It still continues to impress me for a 50cc stock saw. It's amazing the RPMs it holds in the cut, and when lugged down, just keeps cutting.


----------



## blsnelling

I have quite a few vid clips of it in action, but I'm at the inlaws for the weekend and don't have the software, or computing horsepower to edit the vids. I'll be home tomorrow evening and will get them up.


----------



## porsche965

Thanks for all the pics and vids so far. Great resource for making a determination of what to do.


----------



## adkranger

Nice Farmall bucket-tractor!

Nice posts so far, the 261 looks quite tempting indeed. Bring on the vids.....

Is that fancy new clutch cover with captive nuts interchangeable? If so, it would be a nice upgrade for other Stihl models....


----------



## CORNFEDMIDGET

Andyshine77 said:


> Darn I thought I was going to have more fun with this.
> 
> I've got to say the 261 is better than I expected. First it feels plenty light, it also has great throttle response for any new saw, especially for a new strato saw. This may be too early in the game, but I think it does have more power than my 346, and it has great torque for a 50cc saw. Remember my 346 has a MM and non limited coil. Time will prove or disprove my currant opinions. I don't think it handles like the 346, but it's a close call, better than most Stihl's in that respect.
> 
> Anyway here's the full vid of Brad's 261 in the wood.. We were cutting hard dry Oak, and some hard maple.
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dYdiJe5X7Fo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dYdiJe5X7Fo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



@4:10 PNW softwood?...nice jab fellas. Love the demostrations with the mini-sledge.

looks like a great little saw. Have fun!


----------



## SawTroll

TN RAT said:


> Sir,
> 
> I know I am not a reg here so my opinion doesn't count for much but my wife just walked by the computer and chewed me out b/c men have not respect for their wive's nice dinner tables.
> 
> Would you mind continuing to post the great pics of the saw...in the shop, yard, I don't care but not the dinner table. Thanks. :bang::biggrinbounce2:




I never had that problem with my wife


----------



## Kenskip1

*Stihl 261*

Being a die hard Stihl head I enjoy reading about the 261. The only thing that bothers me is the exposed fuel tank.Not very attractive and also exposes itself to injury.Ken


----------



## SawTroll

Kenskip1 said:


> ..... The only thing that bothers me is the exposed fuel tank.Not very attractive and also exposes itself to injury.Ken


----------



## wooddog

Stihl shows it gained over a pound on their specs. So at 11.6 pounds power head only weight. Does that make the MS261 the heaviest 50 cc chainsaw being sold? That sure seems like it would be closing in on the weight of the MS361 59 cc 12.3 pounds. 

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS261.html


----------



## SawTroll

wooddog said:


> Stihl shows it gained over a pound on their specs. So at 11.6 pounds power head only weight. Does that make the MS261 the heaviest 50 cc chainsaw being sold? That sure seems like it would be closing in on the weight of the MS361 59 cc 12.3 pounds.
> 
> http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS261.html



The 270 and the Dolmar 500/510 are heavier than the 261.

The 5100/5105 and the current 50cc Solo may be heavier as well, for true weights, depending if the 261 weight is true or not.......


----------



## 2000ssm6

wooddog said:


> Stihl shows it gained over a pound on their specs. So at 11.6 pounds power head only weight. Does that make the MS261 the heaviest 50 cc chainsaw being sold? That sure seems like it would be closing in on the weight of the MS361 59 cc 12.3 pounds.
> 
> http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS261.html



Seems to be. Also looks to have close to the same power as the 361.


----------



## adkranger

wooddog said:


> Stihl shows it gained over a pound on their specs. So at 11.6 pounds power head only weight. Does that make the MS261 the heaviest 50 cc chainsaw being sold? That sure seems like it would be closing in on the weight of the MS361 59 cc 12.3 pounds.
> 
> http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS261.html



It's all the dang steel springs they stuffed into the chassis......:monkey::jester:


----------



## 2000ssm6

Brad, how many did you dealer get? All standard versions or some C-Qs?


----------



## FATGUY

they actually drove their truck down to their distributor just to pick the saw up for Brad.


----------



## 2000ssm6

FATGUY said:


> they actually drove their truck down to their distributor just to pick the saw up for Brad.



Ah, so just one saw? Sounds like that dealer bent over backwards for their customer.


----------



## spike60

wooddog said:


> Stihl shows it gained over a pound on their specs. So at 11.6 pounds power head only weight. Does that make the MS261 the heaviest 50 cc chainsaw being sold? That sure seems like it would be closing in on the weight of the MS361 59 cc 12.3 pounds.
> 
> http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS261.html



Over a pound? 11.6 is closing in to the next class. (The new 555 is supposed to be 11.8) I think it's a little harder to "go strato" with the smaller saws and not gain a little weight, especially on a % basis. 

But you have to keep in mind that the perception is slanted by what the saw replaces. The 260 really had best in class weight, so it's hard for Stihl to maintain that. It's easy for the 555/562 to be an improvement because the 357/359 was overweight for it's class.


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> MS361 is 12.1, not 12.3, and it is the true empty PH weight.
> 
> 
> The 270 and the Dolmar 500/510 are heavier than the 261, no others I know of in modern times.



Where did that 12.1 number come from?


----------



## FATGUY

2000ssm6 said:


> Ah, so just one saw? Sounds like that dealer bent over backwards for their customer.



They're a stand up operation for sure. Do you want one?


----------



## 2000ssm6

spike60 said:


> Over a pound? 11.6 is closing in to the next class. (The new 555 is supposed to be 11.8) I think it's a little harder to "go strato" with the smaller saws and not gain a little weight, especially on a % basis.
> 
> But you have to keep in mind that the perception is slanted by what the saw replaces. The 260 really had best in class weight, so it's hard for Stihl to maintain that. It's easy for the 555/562 to be an improvement because the 357/359 was overweight for it's class.



I think you hit it right on the head. With these new stratos, their extra weight is welcomed with extra power. Good thing is, there are plenty of the old school saws out there for use to choose from.


----------



## 2000ssm6

FATGUY said:


> They're a stand up operation for sure. Do you want one?



Naw, my local guy is on the look for one. He isn't going to like hearing about my new(to me) Redmax blower and trimmer though.


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> Seems to be. Also looks to have close to the same power as the 361.




:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::jester:


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> Where did that 12.1 number come from?



Good question!

It is 12.3lbs/5.6kg, always was.


----------



## slipknot

*sure is pretty!!*

Brad...have you ever opened up an efco 952/152 just to see what happens after you did your thing to it? I know efco does fall a lil short when compared to stihl, husky, dolmar....efco air filtration sucks...i know..i admit it. I just like them cuz noone else does....but that thread you did while back about the cheap husky 350 was an inspiration to alot of us. I guess my question is if a stock efco 952 is more stout than a stock husky 350 what would happen if you got ahold of an efco 952 or would you even mess with one....that question has bothered me for quite some time....what could someone that knows what the heck they are doing get extra out of one of those "decent" saws? I ask you because you are not a hack..you apply science and numbers to the mix and then make a well thought out thread that we can all understand. Someone with money and a efco 952 talk this guy into it....please. I have efcos but no spare $$
Keep up the great thread!


----------



## blsnelling

Kenskip1 said:


> Being a die hard Stihl head I enjoy reading about the 261. The only thing that bothers me is the exposed fuel tank.Not very attractive and also exposes itself to injury.Ken


Exposed fuel tank? What saw doesn't?



wooddog said:


> Stihl shows it gained over a pound on their specs. So at 11.6 pounds power head only weight. Does that make the MS261 the heaviest 50 cc chainsaw being sold? That sure seems like it would be closing in on the weight of the MS361 59 cc 12.3 pounds.


I'll be putting the 346, 261, and 026 on postal scales. Both my BIL and myself thought the 346 felt measurable heavier than the 261. Both had 16" B&Cs and were full of fuel and oil. The scale will tell the story.



adkranger said:


> It's all the dang steel springs they stuffed into the chassis......:monkey::jester:


Leave those springs out, and you'll be behind the curve on AV technology. Most all recently designed saws have spring AV.



2000ssm6 said:


> Brad, how many did you dealer get? All standard versions or some C-Qs?


Yup, just the one. As Nik said, they drove to the distributor and picked it up, so as to not have to wait on UPS. Can't beat service like that! I'm sure they can get more. Evidentally, the rumor about only C-Q models until January was wrong.



slipknot said:


> Brad...have you ever opened up an efco 952/152 just to see what happens after you did your thing to it? I know efco does fall a lil short when compared to stihl, husky, dolmar....efco air filtration sucks...i know..i admit it. I just like them cuz noone else does....but that thread you did while back about the cheap husky 350 was an inspiration to alot of us. I guess my question is if a stock efco 952 is more stout than a stock husky 350 what would happen if you got ahold of an efco 952 or would you even mess with one....that question has bothered me for quite some time....what could someone that knows what the heck they are doing get extra out of one of those "decent" saws? I ask you because you are not a hack..you apply science and numbers to the mix and then make a well thought out thread that we can all understand. Someone with money and a efco 952 talk this guy into it....please. I have efcos but no spare $$
> Keep up the great thread!


Hey, I'll give about any saw a try. But no, I've never even run one. I thought I was going to acquire a small Efco here a while back, but that never happened.


----------



## BloodOnTheIce

Brad you Ohio guys get your Stihl out of a distributor than I do, so the January thing is for us dealers covered by Northeast Stihl. And the time frame of them becoming available is based on how many MS260's are left in each one of the 12 region Stihl distributors warehouses.


----------



## blsnelling

BloodOnTheIce said:


> Brad you Ohio guys get your Stihl out of a distributor than I do, so the January thing is for us people covered by Northeast Stihl.



Hopefully that won't turn out to be the case for you guys.
 I was really worried about that. Had it been a C-Q, I wouldn't have bought it. I don't mind the feature, as much as I don't want the added weight.


----------



## jeepyfz450

Maybe its time to upgrade the old 026 pro....... Probably not. Is the 261 a real fuel sipper like its big bro the 441?


----------



## blsnelling

jeepyfz450 said:


> Is the 261 a real fuel sipper like its big bro the 441?



Yes. I ran it all afternoon on 1 1/2 tanks. Those that have had them all summer in Europe, have commented about how long they run on a tank of fuel.


----------



## wooddog

blsnelling said:


> I'll be putting the 346, 261, and 026 on postal scales. Both my BIL and myself thought the 346 felt measurable heavier than the 261. Both had 16" B&Cs and were full of fuel and oil. The scale will tell the story.



MS 261 50.2 cc (3.06 cu in) 2.8 kW (3.75 bhp)

WEIGHT: 5.26 kg (11.6 lbs.)

FUEL TANK CAPACITY:	

500 cc (16.9 oz)

OIL TANK CAPACITY:	

270 cc (9.13 oz)


Specifications for 346 XP®
Cylinder displacement	50.1 cc
Power output	3.7 hp

Weight (excl. cutting equipment)	11 lbs

Fuel tank volume	1.06 US pint

Oil tank volume	0.59 US pint


Also Sir since you have a 026 to compare to the MS261. Do you have a older 346xp to compare to the newer 346xp. From what I have read here and everywhere else the NE 50 cc 346xp gained weight over the old edition 45 cc 346. Also do you have a 5100 to weigh while your at it Sir? Thanks


----------



## Andyshine77

I have an old 353 we could get a weight on.


----------



## blsnelling

wooddog said:


> Also Sir since you have a 026 to compare to the MS261. Do you have a older 346xp to compare to the newer 346xp. From what I have read here and everywhere else the NE 50 cc 346xp gained weight over the old edition 45 cc 346. Also do you have a 5100 to weigh while your at it Sir? Thanks



I do not have a 5100 or a OE 346.


----------



## sunfish

wooddog said:


> Do you have a older 346xp to compare to the newer 346xp. From what I have read here and everywhere else the NE 50 cc 346xp gained weight over the old edition 45 cc 346. Also do you have a 5100 to weigh while your at it Sir? Thanks



OE 346xp is 10.6 lbs, 3.4 hp


----------



## SawTroll

Andyshine77 said:


> I have an old 353 we could get a weight on.


That one should weight the same as the NE346xp, not like the 45cc one.


----------



## Andyshine77

I'm pretty sure my 353 is lighter than the NE 346. Husky says .4lbs but I doubt it's there. We'll see in a week.


----------



## volks-man

blsnelling said:


>



why has nobody pointed out that that nice new filter design looks much like an echo cs-440 filter?
i guess stihl really likes other people's filter and prefilter ideas. :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## porsche965

*Weights*

Since the new MS261 is in these saw catagory of weights I thought this may help. Scale is calibrated to the Post Office Scale. 

The 026 Pro is wearing a 16" 3/8ths RSC chain. 14.70 pounds.

The 5105 is wearing a 18" 3/8ths RSC chain. Note: non-cat muffler, lighter.
16.00 pounds.

The MS361 is wearing a 18" 3/8ths RSC chain. 17.10 pounds.

All fluids were filled to maximum capacity.

Sorry about the pictures if they don't show up, not sure how to upload correctly.


----------



## Andyshine77

volks that's the first thing I thought when I saw the filter. The only thing that concerns me about the filter is the fact the rubber seal in on the inside diameter of the filter, I have reservations about it sealing properly. Time will tell.


----------



## Anthony_Va.

She looks like a real runner. Gonna be interesting keeping up with this thread to see if the crown is retained or passed. WOOHOO! I love this forum!!opcorn:


----------



## MacLaren

Anthony_Va. said:


> She looks like a real runner. Gonna be interesting keeping up with this thread to see if the crown is retained or passed. WOOHOO! I love this forum!!opcorn:



did ya get a buck or two?


----------



## deadtrees

*saw weight*

11.6 lbs would seem like a light saw to me. My old 028 super is 13 lbs 3 oz dry powerhead only.


----------



## blsnelling

The vids are in! I've also go pics of the 261, 346, and 026 on a postal scale. I think the results will be surprising! Before anyone comments, yes, I know the L is tuned lean. Throttle response is much better with the L on the lean side. I richened it up just a tad a little later one.


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WOZTvF2XT4E?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WOZTvF2XT4E?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9PHbEK849MQ?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9PHbEK849MQ?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## FATGUY

blsnelling said:


> The vids are in! I've also go pics of the 261, 346, and 026 on a postal scale. I think the results will be surprising! Before anyone comments, yes, I know the L is tuned lean. Throttle response is much better with the L on the lean side. I richened it up just a tad a little later one.



where are the scale pics?


----------



## SeanC

blsnelling, 


Can't wait to see how the 261 runs ported. Seems pretty strong for a 50cc as it is.

Is there any difference in the way the new strato saws have to be ported vs. the reg 2 strokes?

Great vids.

-Sean


----------



## blsnelling

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sk6jcsQJxT8?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sk6jcsQJxT8?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## blsnelling

Not to hihack my own thread, lol. Here's my MS440 w/460 topend and 066BB in action yesterday.


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kW2YQQ95ovU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kW2YQQ95ovU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## 2000ssm6

Impressive against that ported 346.


----------



## Andyshine77

2000ssm6 said:


> Impressive against that ported 346.



30% that's a long way to go, but it is a new saw.


----------



## blsnelling

I'm catiously optimistic. This is not my typical 346 though. It has a popup piston, ceramic bearings, ceramic coated piston crown, combustion chamber, and exhaust port. I'm ordering another new 346 in the morning for stock comparison.

The 261 already has several things going for it. I love the absense of the outbaord clutch. I don't care what Nikko says about how it improves handling It also appears that the air filtration is better than the 346. However, I do not use a felt filter on my 346. It wears the 44 micron filter. That Willow was dead and dry, yet not a spec of dust made it's way through. The 261 should also be better on fuel economy, for those that care. I realize that many won't.


----------



## 2000ssm6

Andyshine77 said:


> 30% that's a long way to go, but it is a new saw.



Yup, for 1.5 tanks through that 261, impressive. Nothing now but to gain more...


----------



## blsnelling

And for the last vid, here's some more of that cool little Farmall H

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3KMbbcCSB84?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3KMbbcCSB84?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Andyshine77

2000ssm6 said:


> Yup, for 1.5 tanks through that 261, impressive. Nothing now but to gain more...



I agree, but not 30% without some serious work.


----------



## 2000ssm6

Andyshine77 said:


> I agree, but not 30% without some serious work.



Oh naw, not 30% worth. I don't think it will need "serious work" to get to that though.


----------



## Andyshine77

We'll see. Let the fun begin opcorn:


----------



## Andyshine77

BTW great vids Brad! love the old tractor.


----------



## blsnelling

All three saws here are outfitted with factory 16" bars and .325 chain. All are full of fuel and oil. The 261 is 9.6 oz heavier than the NE 346XP.















Now here's the kicker. How many Stihl vs Husky threads have you been in and time after time heard the Stihlheads with blinders talk about how much better the 026 is than the 346 because it's so much lighter, like that's supposed to make up for everything else that's far better on the 346? I say baaah humbug! The proof's in the pooding. We're talking about a measely 2.6 oz here! And the OE 346 is lighter than the NE 346! I'm calling that arguement null and void, lol. 







Now before any of you get your panties in a wad, don't forget what this thread's about, a Stihl. Yes, that's right. I want the Stihl to come out on top. I've always loved Stihls and always will. But I call it like it is. If another brand is better, I'll say so in a heart beat


----------



## parrisw

That's pretty cool stuff brad. I'm hoping that the 346 still comes out on top.


----------



## blsnelling

parrisw said:


> That's pretty cool stuff brad. I'm hoping that the 346 still comes out on top.



That's cool with me. May the best saw win. I'm not going to lie and say I'm unbiased. As much as you all know me to love the 346, I'm rooting for the 261.


----------



## bcorradi

Isn't the difference between the 026 and 346 you weighed 2.4 oz instead of 2.6?

Not that I care really, but just thought I'd put that out in case our buddy in norway is taking notes


----------



## blsnelling

bcorradi said:


> Isn't the difference between the 026 and 346 you weighed 2.4 oz instead of 2.6?



Yup, it sure is


----------



## Arrowhead

Good stuff Brad... great pics, great info.


----------



## Arrowhead

blsnelling said:


> All three saws here are outfitted with factory 16" bars and .325 chain. All are full of fuel and oil. The 261 is 9.6 oz heavier than the NE 346XP.



What are the fuel/bar oil capacities of each?


----------



## Anthony_Va.

so by hyolding them, I would think you would'nt feel the difference in weight with either of the three. 

I am pulling for the 261 also. I like Stihl and can't help it, lol. But it will have it's work cut out for it. I'm waiting to see the stock -vs- stock comparo. 

If that 346 in the vids is maxed out as Brad says, it's looking good for the 261. Heck, a muff mod should give it half of what it needs you would think. 

When it comes down to it though, it's hard to go wrong with either, or even the 026 for that matter. 

Now, will they ever be able to do anything to compete with the 7900?  Wishful thinking I reckon.


----------



## dingeryote

I'm liking that 261 for one reason.

It's gonna light a fire under Husky to do better than the 346ne.

Stock vs Stock, I'm gonna guess that the 261 is darn close to the 346ne, so the power argument is now null and void. What kind of gains to be made will also be interesting, and how the power gains are made will be a huge factor.
50cc Grunt saws are cool, but useless to me.

The weight issue however is a huge dissapointment.
I hope Husky dosn't figure they now have more leeway..

I also am kinda shocked at the weight you got on your 260.
Just picking up a 260 leaves the impression that they are a pound or two lighter, if you are used to the weight and balance of a 346.
Maybe it's the centralization of mass, but it dosn't matter.
The fat lady done sung.

Stihl might have finally entered the modern 50cc saw market!
Good for them!

Thanks for taking the time and suffering all the details!!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## bcorradi

I guess I personally don't know what kind of saw the 261 will be, but I have a feeling it will be a pretty formidable with the 346NE . 

I however don't really get all focused on postage scale weights of saws in it being much of a deciding factor when picking a saw. As it was mentioned in this thread, people felt the 261 to weigh less than the 346 NE, but we find out it does not. Heck the 5100 was written off by some people as being too heavy, but it probably in comparison doesn't weigh much more than the 261, but does it really matter? Overall weight, balance, feel, etc has a lot to do with personal preference. Technology and progression is all that matters and it seems that all of the manufacturers are doing that so we are all benefiting. To conjecture that Brand X is better than Brand Y in the 50cc class because it weighs 6 ounces less, balances better, has better air filtration, cuts faster, has an inboard clutch, etc is like picking straws. Everyone has personal preferences and other deciding factors which help them choose which saws they run and that is all that matters.


----------



## Warroad50

Ive got Farmall H their nice running old tractor mine is a 1944 model. They made a lot of those tractors H and M. Also have a 460 International diesel utility. 




blsnelling said:


> And for the last vid, here's some more of that cool little Farmall H
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3KMbbcCSB84?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3KMbbcCSB84?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## bcorradi

Hey Warroad - 

How warm did it get up there today? It hit like 61 here.


----------



## brncreeper

Love that smooth purrrr sound of the H. I've got a 1946 dual fuel model, it runs on gas or kerosene distilate.

Lol! Road gear is pretty fast on those little H's.


----------



## SawTroll

Andyshine77 said:


> I'm pretty sure my 353 is lighter than the NE 346. Husky says .4lbs but I doubt it's there. We'll see in a week.



Well, Husky and the KWF test lab agrees that they weight the same (but not on how much ) - while the old 346xp was lighter, at 10.6lbs, according to both. Saws with cat mufflers will weight more, regardless of model.

That was of course about new and totally clean empty powerheads, not used ones with an unknown amount of gunk etc in them, and probably without dawgs......

I don't fully trust KWF, because of their cooperation with Dolmar in the past, but there is no reason to believe they would lie regarding those numbers.


----------



## StihlyinEly

Brad, I like that old H at least as much as I like Stihl. Maybe even more. Grew up bailing hay on the Gparents' Wisconsin dairy farm behind an H just like that. Good days!  

Thanks again for going the extra 4,869 miles with this thread!


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> Well, Husky and the KWF test lab agrees that they weight the same (but not on how much ) - while the old 346xp was lighter, at 10.6lbs, according to both. Saws with cat mufflers will weight more, regardless of model.
> 
> That was of course about new and totally clean empty powerheads, not used ones with an unknown amount of gunk etc in them, and probably without dawgs......
> 
> I don't fully trust KWF, because of their cooperation with Dolmar in the past, but there is no reason to believe they would lie regarding those numbers.



Are ya sad about the weights?? You just lost your only gripe about the 261. Less than a beer can of difference between the two.


----------



## Chris J.

blsnelling said:


> ...
> The 261 is 9.6 oz heavier than the NE 346XP.
> ...




Deal killer...












if you live in Norway :hmm3grin2orange:!


----------



## spike60

2000ssm6 said:


> Are ya sad about the weights?? You just lost your only gripe about the 261. Less than a beer can of difference between the two.




The weights are all so close that it's really a moot point. When they are that close, it's more a matter of balance and how the weight is distributed than the difference on a scale. The 260 always felt great to me because the distance between the front and rear handles was a little bit longer than most saws in that class. If the 261 has similar geometry then I doubt anyone will notice any weight difference. (It's certainly not like a 441 or 576 type of weight gain)

All in all it looks like a great saw. (I told ya it would beat the 562 to the shelves ) The 346 now has some company on the lead lap, not that all my Husky brothers will want to admit it. :rockn:


----------



## hori

great vids and review as always 
really looking forward to stock vs stock :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## CentaurG2

Well that saw looks like a real improvement. I like the new intake and filter. Kind of reminds me of the breach end of a competitor rotary pistol. Added weight will make it a less attractive limbing saw but it looks to be right at home in the woodpile. I guess the real deciding factor will be the price point. What is the MSRP on the ms261 going to be set at??


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> Are ya sad about the weights?? You just lost your only gripe about the 261. Less than a beer can of difference between the two.



A full can that is, but not a very large one.....

Jokes aside, if we use the KWF number (the highest one) on the NE346xp, and Stihls spec on the MS261, the difference is .4lbs - and that is not new info.

I didn't really want to mess up this "celebration" thread by posting this, but the way it has turned I do it anyway;

The main reason I am disappointed with the 261 is not the weight itself, but that they did nothing to make a better handling saw than Stihls traditionally have been. The light weight of the 260 partly compensated for that, but that is no longer the case with the 261. The 50cc Dolmars have basically the same "flaw" in the design.


----------



## blsnelling

I've ordered the new 346 for the stock vs stock comparison. I need to mill some 12" Oak cants. I've got the wood, saws, and mill, but I need a mini-mill to square the slabs into cants. Maybe I'll make one


----------



## blsnelling

SawTroll said:


> The main reason I am disappointed with the 261 is not the weight itself, but that they did nothing to make a better handling saw than Stihls traditionally have been. The light weight of the 260 partly compensated for that, but that is no longer the case with the 261. The 50cc Dolmars have basically the same "flaw" in the design.



I would be extremely disappointed if it had an outboard clutch. That is what you just said isn't it?


----------



## Diesel Pro

blsnelling said:


> Yeah, I'm already thinking about what I can do with that.
> 
> 
> I got an order for another new 346 last night. Do you already have one?



Yes I do have a new 346. I have about a half tank of gas through it guesstimating.


----------



## FATGUY

SawTroll said:


> A full can that is, but not a very large one.....
> 
> Jokes aside, if we use the KWF number (the highest one) on the NE346xp, and Stihls spec on the MS261, the difference is .4lbs - and that is not new info.
> 
> I didn't really want to mess up this "celebration" thread by posting this, but the way it has turned I do it anyway;
> 
> *The main reason I am disappointed with the 261 is not the weight itself, but that they did nothing to make a better handling saw than Stihls traditionally have been.* The light weight of the 260 partly compensated for that, but that is no longer the case with the 261. The 50cc Dolmars have basically the same "flaw" in the design.



Nikko, I have the upmost respect for you as a person and as an expert on saws.
I cannot however agree with this. Until you at least hold the saw you really can't make that kind of judgement. I love how the 261 feels in my hands. The handle spacing, angles, control locations are all just outstanding in my opinion.


----------



## porsche965

I am anxious to get a MS261 and run it stock to stock against the Dolmar 5105. Since the Dolmar already has a 18" bar/chain 3/8ths that is what I ordered for the MS261 to keep things fair.

The MS261 is closer in weight to the Dolmar [email protected]#s, than it is to the venerable Husky 346xp. I do enjoy my Snellerized 350!

Mine might be in this week, but they said that last week too... 

Thanks Brad for all your time and expense to bring us a great thread. You could charge admission!


----------



## brages

Any chance you could toss 'em back on the scale for some powerhead-only weights? Just curious, thanks!


----------



## blsnelling

brages said:


> Any chance you could toss 'em back on the scale for some powerhead-only weights? Just curious, thanks!



I will at some point. I just didn't want to mess with draining the fuel and oil last night


----------



## CORNFEDMIDGET

FATGUY said:


> Nikko, I have the upmost respect for you as a person and as an expert on saws.
> I cannot however agree with this. Until you at least hold the saw you really can't make that kind of judgement. I love how the 261 feels in my hands. The handle spacing, angles, control locations are all just outstanding in my opinion.



The question has to be; Has he handled and used the saw (261) enough to make that kind of judgement?

If so? It is still a judgement, an opinion. 

You love the way it handles (in your opinion) and he doesn't like the way it handles (in his opinion). Two conflicting accounts of the same saw. Opinion! 

If he hasn't held or used the saw, he is basing opinion on "specs" and heresay. I never held one, but it looks like a nice little saw.

Have fun fellas.


----------



## Warroad50

bcorradi said:


> Hey Warroad -
> 
> How warm did it get up there today? It hit like 61 here.



Yesterday it was unusually warm for this time of year it was around 60. Monday's and Tuesday looks like more of the same. Wednesday looks like we return to are normal weather snow and rain with some colder temps. To dam warm for deer hunting. Going out today to gather some easy wood before the weather changes.


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> I would be extremely disappointed if it had an outboard clutch. That is what you just said isn't it?



That is part of it, yes!


----------



## blsnelling

SawTroll said:


> That is part of it, yes!



This is one we'll just have to agree to disagree on I'll take whatever penalty may be incurred, just to have the inboard clutch.


----------



## SawTroll

CORNFEDMIDGET said:


> The question has to be; Has he handled and used the saw (261) enough to make that kind of judgement?
> 
> ....




That is not needed - when you know how the the saw is laid out internally, the remaining variables are very small.

For me it was a question of if I wanted to try the saw at all (that mostly means buying one here), and I got disappointed because there seem to be no point in doing so. umpkin2:

I guess the money goes to a 562xp instead, as that one looks a lot more interesting in its class - and then there will be a 550xp at some point.


----------



## ms290

Brad i will trade you a bb 066 for that saw:hmm3grin2orange: all joking aside that is a sweet little bugger. My intentions when i got my 066 was to sell for a 260/026. not now i want a 261 but im not letting anything leave now. DANG CAD! 066 would sleep in the house but the wife said no.


----------



## Edge & Engine

The Dolmar PS-5105 weighs exactly 15lbs dry, with 18" bar and 64DL 3/8" chain.


----------



## parrisw

SawTroll said:


> That is not needed - when you know how the the saw is laid out internally, the remaining variables are very small.
> 
> For me it was a question of if I wanted to try the saw at all (that mostly means buying one here), and I got disappointed because there seem to be no point in doing so. umpkin2:
> 
> I guess the money goes to a 562xp instead, as that one looks a lot more interesting in its class - and then there will be a 550xp at some point.



Ya, Nikko, I'd rather have a 562 as well, but like Brad, I'm a Husky guy, but I do like Stihls, and have owned many. But since I have the legendary 262xp, I don't think I'll be buying a new 60cc saw anytime soon.


----------



## adkranger

brages said:


> Any chance you could toss 'em back on the scale for some powerhead-only weights? Just curious, thanks!



I too would be interested in the dry, PHO weights. Fuel & oil capacities vary, as well as optional B/C weights. PHO is just as important a starting comparison as "operational" weight.

Of course IMHO a few ounces here or there is far less important than an overall package, how it feels, performs and handles. Longevity/durability are very important too for those of us that keep our saws for the long run. Though that will take years to produce any definitive data. If the 346 gains lighweight crown in class, so be it. As long as the other improvements in the 261 shine it will be a winner. Should be a nice competition between the contenders...... look forward to the comparison.



Thankfully it retains the inboard clutch...:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## parrisw

What's the price on the NE346xp, and the 261?


----------



## RTK

Edge & Engine said:


> The Dolmar PS-5105 weighs exactly 15lbs dry, with 18" bar and 64DL 3/8" chain.




If so it is toting a longer bar and different chain than the ones that were weighed previously, it might be closer in weight than most think............


----------



## nmurph

the 5100 that i had on extended loan was 12lbs, PHO, dry. three pounds for 18" B/C sounds about right.


----------



## MacLaren

hey guys, wouldnt the 555 and 562 be considered 50cc saws? I believe unless Im wrong that the 7900 is considered a 70cc saw? I tell ya, 59.8 cc I beleive and 4.7 hp, seems like it would be hard for either the 346 or 261 to compete with that. If this has already been hashed out then please pardon my ignorance.


----------



## THALL10326

SawTroll said:


> A full can that is, but not a very large one.....
> 
> Jokes aside, if we use the KWF number (the highest one) on the NE346xp, and Stihls spec on the MS261, the difference is .4lbs - and that is not new info.
> 
> I didn't really want to mess up this "celebration" thread by posting this, but the way it has turned I do it anyway;
> 
> The main reason I am disappointed with the 261 is not the weight itself, but that they did nothing to make a better handling saw than Stihls traditionally have been. The light weight of the 260 partly compensated for that, but that is no longer the case with the 261. The 50cc Dolmars have basically the same "*flaw*" in the design.



Flaws again, Sawtroll you should know better by now. No one piece of equipment, no matter who made it, will feel the same or handle the same to everyone, you know that. What feels bad in your hands may feel great in someone else's hands. Beings Stihl is the most handled chainsaw in the world today and has been for 4 decades would indicate, in fact prove, people like the way they handle a whole lot more than your letting on here. This nitpicking about handling and weights are nothing more than that, just nitpicking. Doing so just shows the bias. The real flaw is the bias, people aren't blind to the obvious. Remember ole boy I said the 346 is a great handling little chainsaw but I never said it untill I actually used one. You should try the same method when talking about handling, 

I for one think that 261 is kinda cool but looking at the vids Brad put up I doubt seriously it will outcut a 346 or 5100 stock to stock, it will indeed run alot closer than the older 260 but outdo them in the cut any or at all I don't see it in the vids. Runs strong but stronger than the others I just don't see it, as strong, maybe. The one thing it is doing is the same amount of work on a lot less fuel. For a trim saw thats a huge plus, nothing worse than running out of fuel in the thick of limbs. That little saw is going to win where it counts most, at the sales counter. Its has a awful lot of improvements over the older 260 and at around the same price that baby is gonna fly off the shelves, that saw is going to be very easy to sell when all the new features are pointed out, thats not bias talk thats fact. I'm gonna need a bigger granny sack to hold all the money that thing is gonna bring in, can't wait,:biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Stew7

hillbilly22 said:


> hey guys, wouldnt the 555 and 562 be considered 50cc saws? I believe unless Im wrong that the 7900 is considered a 70cc saw? I tell ya, 59.8 cc I beleive and 4.7 hp, seems like it would be hard for either the 346 or 261 to compete with that. If this has already been hashed out then please pardon my ignorance.



The 555 and 562xp are 60 cc saws (59.8cc to be exact).


----------



## MacLaren

Stew7 said:


> The 555 and 562xp are 60 cc saws (59.8cc to be exact).



so let me get this straight, that would make the Dolamr 7900 an 80cc saw?


----------



## MacLaren

Sorry guys I got my info wrong. Not tryin to jack the thread, please excuse me Ill be quiet now...........


----------



## SawTroll

hillbilly22 said:


> hey guys, wouldnt the 555 and 562 be considered 50cc saws? I believe unless Im wrong that the 7900 is considered a 70cc saw? I tell ya, 59.8 cc I beleive and 4.7 hp, seems like it would be hard for either the 346 or 261 to compete with that. If this has already been hashed out then please pardon my ignorance.




Discussing and comparing across any "class borders" is perfectly OK, and is often done - but it is the cc that define what cc class a saw is in!

....then we can discuss which and how many classes that really "exist" - there is no firm answer, and regardless how it is done there will be some saw models that doesn't quite "fit" with how it was defined.


----------



## nmurph

hillbilly22 said:


> so let me get this straight, that would make the Dolamr 7900 an 80cc saw?



price and weight make it a 70cc saw.


----------



## blsnelling

THALL10326 said:


> I for one think that 261 is kinda cool but looking at the vids Brad put up I doubt seriously it will outcut a 346 or 5100 stock to stock, it will indeed run alot closer than the older 260 but outdo them in the cut any or at all I don't see it in the vids. Runs strong but stronger than the others I just don't see it, as strong, maybe.



Don't sell it short now Tom. I'm impressed with it so far. I'll have a NIB 346XP here in a couple days. I'm going to milling some 12" Oak cants for testing


----------



## THALL10326

blsnelling said:


> Don't sell it short now Tom. I'm impressed with it so far. I'll have a NIB 346XP here in a couple days. I'm going to milling some 12" Oak cants for testing



I'm not selling it short at all, its got a ton of features over the saw its replacing, those are my major concerns and in those areas its a winner. Far as in the cut just by viewing those vids I'll give it as much as equal but more so I just can't see it. If by chance its a tad faster great but if not or its just equal its a winner for Stihl and its dealers. We've waited a long long time for that saw to arrive. The 260 just sold so well for so long Stihl had no need to change it, sometimes EPA is a good thing after all,


----------



## blsnelling

I need a cant, and I need it now. I've got the wood, the mill, and the chainsaw. What I don't have is a mini-mill for making the vertical cuts, which cuts the slabs into square cants. I didn't want to spend the $100, and quite frankly, I don't really have the time to wait on it to be shipped. So I've make my own. I had some scrap steel laying around, and this is what I've come up with. I've got to weld the bolts on for the bottom clamp, and then grind off the heads on the back side. I may also add a handle to push on.


----------



## SawTroll

nmurph said:


> price and weight make it a 70cc saw.



No, it doesn't, unless you define a class based on weight and price, or as 70-80cc.

You can of course define saw classes any way you want, but there will always be some models that doesn't seem to "fit". As an exemple, the 6400 and the 365/2165 will always be "misfits", regardless how you define the classes - unless they get their own class.


----------



## nmurph

SawTroll said:


> No, it doesn't, unless you define a class based on weight and price, or as 70-80cc.



thank you, that is my point.


----------



## SawTroll

THALL10326 said:


> ....
> I for one think that 261 is kinda cool but looking at the vids Brad put up I doubt seriously it will outcut a 346 or 5100 stock to stock, it will indeed run alot closer than the older 260 but outdo them in the cut any or at all I don't see it in the vids. ....



I also notised the relatively slow cutting, but considering what he said about the wood, and that it was totally new, I didn't want to comment on it.

Also, I tried to be nice in this thread, because it was sort of a "celebration" of the 261 hitting the market in the US, but had to give up because of posts by others....:censored:

Regardless how it really compares, I am sure it will be a big seller, due to weight of Stihl marketing in the US!


----------



## Trigger-Time

Brad, am thinking the bolt heads that hold the bar on are going to give problems. If the are going to be riding on the lumber.......maybe not. Flat heads counter sunk, nuts or something (tabs) a little thicker than the nuts.
I think it would take some of the wiggle room out. 
But I may not be looking at the mill the way you are going to use it.

The mill looks good but I would put a push handle on it also.








TT


----------



## blsnelling

blsnelling said:


> I've got to weld the bolts on for the bottom clamp, and then grind off the heads on the back side.





Trigger-Time said:


> Brad, am thinking the bolt heads that hold the bar on are going to give problems. If the are going to be riding on the lumber.......maybe not.



They will be ground off.


----------



## Orange Hill

blsnelling said:


> I need a cant, and I need it now. I've got the wood, the mill, and the chainsaw. What I don't have is a mini-mill for making the vertical cuts, which cuts the slabs into square cants. I didn't want to spend the $100, and quite frankly, I don't really have the time to wait on it to be shipped. So I've make my own. I had some scrap steel laying around, and this is what I've come up with. I've got to weld the bolts on for the bottom clamp, and then grind off the heads on the back side. I may also add a handle to push on.
> 
> 
> Why grind off the heads of the bolts when you can use a Allen hex taper head bolt and simply counter sink it. Even if you still want to weld the bolt you could use a counter sunk bolt and weld that so that you have more surface hold on the bolt. If you have access to a TIG welder there would be no grinding.


----------



## blsnelling

I'm sure I could do that, but don't think it's worth the time and effort. I need to get into operation ASAP, as in this evening


----------



## Edge & Engine

nmurph said:


> the 5100 that i had on extended loan was 12lbs, PHO, dry. three pounds for 18" B/C sounds about right.



And the PS-5105 I weighed has both the CAT muffler and the bigger starter.


----------



## stipes

*Looks great Brad!!!*



blsnelling said:


> I need a cant, and I need it now. I've got the wood, the mill, and the chainsaw. What I don't have is a mini-mill for making the vertical cuts, which cuts the slabs into square cants. I didn't want to spend the $100, and quite frankly, I don't really have the time to wait on it to be shipped. So I've make my own. I had some scrap steel laying around, and this is what I've come up with. I've got to weld the bolts on for the bottom clamp, and then grind off the heads on the back side. I may also add a handle to push on.



Like Trigger,, the thing I see that will give ya a prob. is the bottom bolts..I'd go with flathead screws,,get Nik to give ya a good countersink bit and then they be outta the way...Looks like your settin it up to run on top a 2X4..Looks great Brad...
You ever get your walnut logs cut up for shelves?? I might have missed if you did on here and if you dont care if you got pics. I'd like to see em....
Your gonna have alot of fun outta that...Damn good idea..... I always enjoyed mine....No matter how long the log,,side the straight edge up and keep on millin.... Oh I have to add....
I went to the local Stihl dealer here and no they dont have the 261 in stock here yet...They havet had a chance to at least fondle one themselves...

I love my mini mill!


----------



## SawTroll

THALL10326 said:


> Flaws again, Sawtroll you should know better by now. No one piece of equipment, no matter who made it, will feel the same or handle the same to everyone, you know that. What feels bad in your hands may feel great in someone else's hands. ....



I partly agree, but no flaws on my side - it is just that many that are fans of German saws don't want to know or hear about such inherent differences between saw designs, as it looks like it just is an "accident" when those brands make a well-handling saw.
I am not talking about how the saws feel when blocking firewood or cutting cookies, but about how well they will handle for limbing etc in the woods, with rapid changes in cutting directions and angles + "point of aim".


----------



## belgian

SawTroll said:


> I partly agree, but no flaws on my side - it is just that many that are fans of German saws don't want to know or hear about such inherent differences between saw designs, as it looks like it just is an "accident" when those brands make a well-handling saw.
> I am not talking about how the saws feel when blocking firewood or cutting cookies, but about how well they will handle for limbing etc in the woods, with rapid changes in cutting directions and angles + "point of aim".




Niko, you know we like you but sometimes you sound like my old lady....nag nag, nag....;

that saw did great in that bone hard wood....I think it was difficult to be not impressed. I was even more impressed by that Farmall H tractor though ...that thing is a real beauty.


----------



## Trigger-Time

Don't know about 261 but I like the way the 026/260 feels much
better than 346.

You guys talking about that H, I grew up on a C, H and M Farmall's
Looking at that H makes my butt hurt!! Dad still has the old H he bought
it in 1964. They are nice to look at but sure don't want to go back using one.


----------



## banshee67

its amazing what 1/2 lb can do to someones opinion on something.. some of you guys need to get in shape if 1/2 pound means anything to you


----------



## SawTroll

banshee67 said:


> its amazing what 1/2 lb can do to someones opinion on something.. some of you guys need to get in shape if 1/2 pound means anything to you



The weight isn't the main issue, and never was.


----------



## Trigger-Time

We should all hope the 261 kicks the 346's butt.

It's like anything else, if saw Co. don't have good competition
it is use that loose.

If not for foreign car competition years back we would be driving
junk cars like the US was putting out in the late 70's and early 80's




TT


----------



## SawTroll

hillbilly22 said:


> so let me get this straight, that would make the Dolamr 7900 an 80cc saw?



Sure it is, no doubt about that.


----------



## SawTroll

belgian said:


> Niko, you know we like you but sometimes you sound like my old lady....nag nag, nag....;
> 
> that saw did great in that bone hard wood....I think it was difficult to be not impressed. I was even more impressed by that Farmall H tractor though ...that thing is a real beauty.




Judging a saw based on how it cuts in an unknown log, without anything to compare to, and with unknown chain etc, is pretty hopeless.

I would not have commented on it at all, if others didn't.


----------



## THALL10326

SawTroll said:


> Judging a saw based on how it cuts in an unknown log, without anything to compare to, and with unknown chain etc, is pretty hopeless.
> 
> I would not have commented on it at all, if others didn't.



LOL, kinda like commenting on the handling of a saw without ever handling it, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## SawTroll

THALL10326 said:


> LOL, kinda like commenting on the handling of a saw without ever handling it, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Not needed in this case, just too obvious from the lay-out of the design!


----------



## THALL10326

SawTroll said:


> Not needed in this case, just too obvious from the lay-out of the design!



Awwwwwwwww too funny. Sawtroll I've sold thousands of chainsaws and I've yet to have someone pick up one and say well the lay out and design would tend to show this saw won't handle very well. Thats almost like saying well she doesn't have 38 knockers so its obvious she wouldn't be hot in the sack, yeah rightttttttttttttt,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> Not needed in this case, just too obvious from the lay-out of the design!



I see someone is full of #### in here. Is that record wore out yet Troll?


----------



## J.W Younger

THALL10326 said:


> Awwwwwwwww too funny. Sawtroll I've sold thousands of chainsaws and I've yet to have someone pick up one and say well the lay out and design would tend to show this saw won't handle very well. Thats almost like saying well she doesn't have 38 knockers so its obvious she wouldn't be hot in the sack, yeah rightttttttttttttt,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


Heck, tom give the ole boy a break, hes a husky man and you have to admit that 346 is a hellava saw.One day a saw will come along and knock it off its perch and st won't like or admit it so let him bask till it happens.
we will like it tho,and this may be the one too do it.


----------



## parrisw

2000ssm6 said:


> I see someone is full of #### in here. Is that record wore out yet Troll?



Kinda like how you comment on saws you've never run?

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

2000ssm6 said:


> I see someone is full of #### in here. Is that record wore out yet Troll?



I think he's going for a new AS record


----------



## 2000ssm6

parrisw said:


> Kinda like how you comment on saws you've never run?
> 
> :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:



Which ones would that be? The 346? Ran a few, stock and ported. Not a bad saw just prefer the 260. The 372? Ran a stocker, rather have my 044 or a 440. The 395? A little heavy but nice, rather have my 660.

I think that sums it up......:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326

J.W Younger said:


> Heck, tom give the ole boy a break, hes a husky man and you have to admit that 346 is a hellava saw.One day a saw will come along and knock it off its perch and st won't like or admit it so let him bask till it happens.
> we will like it tho,and this may be the one too do it.



Hey now I have said the 346 is a great handling little saw but I said it after I used it and handled for awhile, not before,LOL

I'm trying to save Sawtroll's credibility by pointing out his "flaws".,haha. I don't mind him yaking about the Stihls, hell the more "flaws' he finds with them the more I sell, I gotta keep him talking,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 2000ssm6

J.W Younger said:


> One day a saw will come along and knock it off its perch and st won't like or admit it so let him bask till it happens.



That day is here, just incase ST missed it.


----------



## parrisw

2000ssm6 said:


> Which ones would that be? The 346? Ran a few, stock and ported. Not a bad saw just prefer the 260. The 372? Ran a stocker, rather have my 044 or a 440. The 395? A little heavy but nice, rather have my 660.
> 
> I think that sums it up......:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Not really actually, but your entitled to your lame opinion.


----------



## jeepyfz450

Good saw reviews so far. I think either saw is gonna be great....


----------



## 2000ssm6

parrisw said:


> Not really actually, but your entitled to your lame opinion.



Lame doesn't buy saws. Send me some red and I will run them. Ahhh, I do have some red. Just bought some Redmax stuff and like 'em. So Stihl and Redmax it is.


----------



## dingeryote

2000ssm6 said:


> That day is here, just incase ST missed it.



The Fat lady hasn't even warmed up yet. LOL!!

Lets see if the thing breaks in and even gets close.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## parrisw

2000ssm6 said:


> Lame doesn't buy saws. Send me some red and I will run them. Ahhh, I do have some red. Just bought some Redmax stuff and like 'em. So Stihl and Redmax it is.



Oh, so I'm supposed to send you some saws to run now. Not likely gona happen.

I meant actually get out and run some saws for a while. Not just a few cuts at a GTG. But whatever you think man. 

I've owned most of the saws you speak of, so that's the difference between you and me.


----------



## CORNFEDMIDGET

SawTroll said:


> That is not needed - when you know how the the saw is laid out internally, *the remaining variables are very small*.
> 
> For me it was a question of if I wanted to try the saw at all (that mostly means buying one here), and I got disappointed because there seem to be no point in doing so. umpkin2:
> 
> I guess the money goes to a 562xp instead, as that one looks a lot more interesting in its class - and then there will be a 550xp at some point.



_Appearances to the mind are of four kinds. Things either are what
they appear to be; or they neither are, nor appear to be; or they
are, and do not appear to be; or they are not, and yet appear to be..._
-- *Epictetus
-- Discourses, Book i, Chap. xxvii *


----------



## 2000ssm6

dingeryote said:


> The Fat lady hasn't even warmed up yet. LOL!!
> 
> Lets see if the thing breaks in and even gets close.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Gets close???


----------



## 2000ssm6

parrisw said:


> Oh, so I'm supposed to send you some saws to run now. Not likely gona happen.
> 
> I meant actually get out and run some saws for a while. Not just a few cuts at a GTG. But whatever you think man.
> 
> I've owned most of the saws you speak of, so that's the difference between you and me.



I think what you mean is since I don't sway towards husky, you don't like my comments or findings? I never said they were junk, just not what I prefer to run.

Ok, maybe I said junk once.....


----------



## StihlyinEly

Hah, the testosterone is a flowin now!  

Durn fun reading.

But more importantly, do you have any more pics of that H, Brad? That was a winner of a Farmall for sure, though I do recall how hard the durn seat was. Everyone who drove it on the farm had their own ass pillow. Pretty soon we're gonna have to hand out ass pillows for this thread. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## parrisw

2000ssm6 said:


> I think what you mean is since I don't sway towards husky, you don't like my comments or findings? I never said they were junk, just not what I prefer to run.
> 
> Ok, maybe I said junk once.....



No that's not what I mean. It doesn't matter to me what your findings are. 

What I meant was, I'm more qualified to make comment is all.


----------



## 2000ssm6

parrisw said:


> No that's not what I mean. It doesn't matter to me what your findings are.
> 
> What I meant was, I'm more qualified to make comment is all.



Suuuuure. I'll be waiting for my new husky saws in the mail, since you feel they are more qualified. You already have my addy.:fart:


----------



## parrisw

2000ssm6 said:


> Suuuuure. I'll be waiting for my new husky saws in the mail, since you feel they are more qualified. You already have my addy.:fart:



Dude? Are you on drugs? I never said that Husky saws are more qualified? STUPID!!


----------



## 2000ssm6

parrisw said:


> Dude? Are you on drugs? I never said that Husky saws are more qualified? STUPID!!



Oh, no new saws in the mail eh?:monkey:

Guess I will continue to run Stihl, bought with my money.


----------



## dingeryote

2000ssm6 said:


> Gets close???



You're right.
It's already heavier and 30% slower than a ported 346. 

Either Brad is a genious and is getting huge gains out of a 50cc saw, or your new morsel is a fat, slow turd, replacing a light slow terd

I was bieng generous with getting close.

On the bright side, the Husky knock off AV and filtration should keep ya happy. LOL!!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> That day is here, just incase ST missed it.



I didn't miss anything - and everyone know you are a desperate brand fanatic, so what you post doesn't really matter. 

The truth is that I really hoped that the MS261 would represent at least a slight change in Stihls design philosophy, as I am not really brand biased at all, but obviously it isn't - and it obviously will handle like a brick in the woods, like the Dolmar 50cc saws....

I am sure that it will work just fine for blocking firewood and cutting cookies though.


----------



## 2000ssm6

dingeryote said:


> You're right.
> It's already heavier and 30% slower than a ported 346.
> 
> Either Brad is a genious and is getting huge gains out of a 50cc saw, or your new morsel is a fat, slow turd, replacing a light slow terd
> 
> I was bieng generous with getting close.
> 
> On the bright side, the Husky knock off AV and filtration should keep ya happy. LOL!!!
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Starting to sound like Troll Yote, not good. Funny though, we can get a laugh or two out of ya'll jokers.


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> - it obviously will handle like a brick in the woods, like the Dolmar 50cc saws....
> 
> I am sure that it will work just fine for blocking firewood and cutting cookies though.



And you are a fool in your own world....


----------



## Zombiechopper

read the tags at the bottom of the thread! funny stuff


----------



## Zombiechopper

261 calls 346 daddy, 
261 is "new" king, 
346 doggy styles 261, 
346 is down and out, 
346 is junk, 
346-still the chump, 
insomnia cure thread, 
ms261 is looking good, 
parrisw is more qualified


----------



## dingeryote

2000ssm6 said:


> Starting to sound like Troll Yote, not good. Funny though, we can get a laugh or two out of ya'll jokers.




Just bieng objective.

The only thing the 260 had going for it was it's weight...sort of.

The 261 is heavier and apparently still well within the margin of "slower than".

Lets see how well the Jim Jones 261 does in real time, when the Fat Lady does sing. 

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## Tzed250

SawTroll said:


> I didn't miss anything - and everyone know you are a desperate brand fanatic, so what you post doesn't really matter.
> 
> The truth is that I really hoped that the MS261 would represent at least a slight change in Stihls design philosophy, as I am not really brand biased at all, but obviously it isn't - and it obviously will handle *like a brick* in the woods, like the Dolmar 50cc saws....
> 
> I am sure that it will work just fine for blocking firewood and cutting cookies though.



Brick's a$$....in case you haven't noticed, most people want an inboard clutch--the handling be damned. You haven't run the saw, so are in no position to comment about the handling. You would read the spec sheet for two motorcycles and pick a winner from them. Doesn't happen like that in the real world. Run the saw, then your bias won't show so much.


----------



## SawTroll

Zombiechopper said:


> 261 calls 346 daddy,
> 261 is "new" king,
> 346 doggy styles 261,
> 346 is down and out,
> 346 is junk,
> 346-still the chump,
> insomnia cure thread,
> ms261 is looking good,
> parrisw is more qualified



Hardly a "new king" - and the 550xp is still in the future, but has been under development for a while. 
It is no big secret that the 346xp will need a replacement at some point, for EPA reasons, and I suspect it will be a good bit better than the MS261.

As usual, time will tell.......


----------



## SawTroll

dingeryote said:


> Just bieng objective.
> 
> The only thing the 260 had going for it was it's weight...sort of.
> 
> The 261 is heavier and apparently still well within the margin of "slower than".
> 
> Lets see how well the Jim Jones 261 does in real time, when the Fat Lady does sing.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



I am a bit more optimistic on behalv of the 261 regarding "the slower" part - but it needs a real good trigger response as well as fast cutting in logs to be really competetive - and then there is the handling issue!

Imo, the handling is *very* important on a 50cc saw - as the saws get larger, it is gradually less of an issue, as handling gets slower anyway.


----------



## dingeryote

SawTroll said:


> I am a bit more optimistic on behalv of the 261 regarding "the slower" part - but it needs a real good trigger response as well as fast cutting in logs to be really competetive - and then there is the handling issue!
> 
> Imo, the handling is *very* important on a 50cc saw - as the saws get larger, it is gradually less of an issue, as handling gets slower anyway.




We see things differently, and likely out of different needs.

The 346 fits the bill because of it's speed/power cutting mid sized stuff and snotty accelleration for limbing combined. Saves me from having to grab something bigger and saving time as well as the back.

A heavier saw with lazy accelleration and similar grunt just ain't what I'm looking for. Handling depends on weight distribution as much as weight, and the morphology of the user..I always liked the handling of the 260, just don't like the fact that it is a Dog.

I gotta disagree on the handling of larger saws bieng less important.
It's one thing to fight a little 12lb saw that dosn't exactly fit, but a 20lb saw that dosn't handle, will absolutely stomp your ass after a bit LOL!!



Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## 2000ssm6

dingeryote said:


> Just bieng objective.
> 
> The only thing the 260 had going for it was it's weight...sort of.
> 
> The 261 is heavier and apparently still well within the margin of "slower than".
> 
> Lets see how well the Jim Jones 261 does in real time, when the Fat Lady does sing.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Fair enough but when it happens, give credit where credit is due.


----------



## dieselram

dingeryote said:


> .
> 
> the Husky knock off AV and filtration should keep ya happy. LOL!!!
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Hey, at least it is the right colors... It would keep me happy. LOL!!!


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> I am a bit more optimistic on behalv of the 261 regarding "the slower" part - but it needs a real good trigger response as well as fast cutting in logs to be really competetive - and then there is the handling issue!
> 
> Imo, the handling is *very* important on a 50cc saw - as the saws get larger, it is gradually less of an issue, as handling gets slower anyway.



So when the 346NE was fatter than the 260, the 346 was stihl the better saw? Even with that sucky outboard clutch? LOL, your comments hold water like a sieve. Get off that high horse 346 and get back into the real world. I can admit when I'm wrong, can you?

btw, my blinders must have broke. I might need to use yours.:hmm3grin2orange: Picked up these two bad boys the other day, I like 'em! Who knew you could get decent *** in the color red.


----------



## THALL10326

SawTroll said:


> I didn't miss anything - and everyone know you are a desperate brand fanatic, so what you post doesn't really matter.
> 
> The truth is that I really hoped that the MS261 would represent at least a slight change in Stihls design philosophy, as I am not really brand biased at all, but obviously it isn't - and it obviously will handle like a brick in the woods, like the Dolmar 50cc saws....
> 
> I am sure that it will work just fine for blocking firewood and cutting cookies though.



Oh my, your killing me Sawtroll. Sawtroll would you change your design philosophy if your design outsold all the others for over 40 years, come now lets not get too foolish here. 

Your not brand bias at all, ha. Thats about as true as me saying the water in the pond went down two feet when I pulled that big bass out, yeah righttttt,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## wigglesworth

I love internet experts, most especially ones who know all there is to know about the MS261, and havent even layed hands on one. The only one here, who is "Qualified" to comment on said saw, is the OP, and the two other folks who have ran it. End of story. Who gives a flying flip about what any "Specs" say. Until you have layed hands on it, put it in wood, I could give a crap about what you have to say about the MS261........Yes, this is a RANT!!!!


----------



## THALL10326

2000ssm6 said:


> So when the 346NE was fatter than the 260, the 346 was stihl the better saw? Even with that sucky outboard clutch? LOL, your comments hold water like a sieve. Get off that high horse 346 and get back into the real world. I can admit when I'm wrong, can you?
> 
> btw, my blinders must have broke. I might need to use yours.:hmm3grin2orange: Picked up these two bad boys the other day, I like 'em! Who knew you could get decent *** in the color red.



I spot flaws on that blower. The fuel lines and throttle cable is exposed to the elements, will surely get ripped or torn off ,LOLOLOLOLOLOL How does it handle, oh hell nevermind, LOL


----------



## dingeryote

2000ssm6 said:


> Fair enough but when it happens, give credit where credit is due.



Your new pet is already behind bieng heavier, the same thing you Koolaid drinkers used to slander the 346 about.

It had better be significantly faster and as responsive, and not just the margin of chain or a knot either way, or it's still the loser.

I was hoping the 261 was going to be setting a new mark, but so far it has failed to even reach the existing one.
 
Somebody has to push Husky and Dolmar to raise the bar.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## blsnelling

The muffler mod results are in. This cant is solid Oak, and measures about 10"x11". The cuts times are indeed faster with the muffler mod, but there's more to it than that. When bone stock, pushing on it resulted in slower cut times. Now that the muffler is modded, it has the torque and actually cuts faster with a heavier load. We have it tuned to 14K both stock and muffler modded, so not a lot of WOT RPMs were found, but it definately picked up torque in the cut, to the tune of 10-12%. Not bad at all!


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gIpiD-jjvuc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gIpiD-jjvuc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## 2000ssm6

THALL10326 said:


> I spot flaws on that blower. The fuel lines and throttle cable is exposed to the elements, will surely get ripped or torn off ,LOLOLOLOLOLOL How does it handle, oh hell nevermind, LOL



I knew you were going to see these sooner or later, LOL. It was a deal I could not pass up. I really wanted a FS250 and BR600 but these were in real good shape for the $$$.

The 8001 is heavy, no doubt. I haven't used a 600 but for 15-20 minutes but their power seems to be somewhat equal. The vibes are felt more on the 8001 and I don't like the throttle control. Other than those grips, I can live with it. Both the 8001 and 600 want to twist your body at WOT, I need to gain some weight I guess.:biggrinbounce2:

The trimmer seems to be fine. It's killed a few saplings so far but will really get used in the summer.


----------



## parrisw

wigglesworth said:


> I love internet experts, most especially ones who know all there is to know about the MS261, and havent even layed hands on one. The only one here, who is "Qualified" to comment on said saw, is the OP, and the two other folks who have ran it. End of story. Who gives a flying flip about what any "Specs" say. Until you have layed hands on it, put it in wood, I could give a crap about what you have to say about the MS261........Yes, this is a RANT!!!!



Agreed. Nuff said.


----------



## 2000ssm6

dingeryote said:


> Your new pet is already behind bieng heavier, the same thing you Koolaid drinkers used to slander the 346 about.
> 
> It had better be significantly faster and as responsive, and not just the margin of chain or a knot either way, or it's still the loser.
> 
> I was hoping the 261 was going to be setting a new mark, but so far it has failed to even reach the existing one.
> 
> Somebody has to push Husky and Dolmar to raise the bar.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



9.6 ounces Yote!! LOL. This is the first 261 to hit the scene and has already left a mark. A mark on the 346 that is. You and Troll keep the FOS comments up. I expected a little more from you but I guess I was worng. Oh well....

Can't wait for my 261!!!!!:chainsawguy:


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> The muffler mod results are in. This cant is solid Oak, and measures about 10"x11". The cuts times are indeed faster with the muffler mod, but there's more to it than that. When bone stock, pushing on it resulted in slower cut times. Now that the muffler is modded, it has the torque and actually cuts faster with a heavier load. We have it tuned to 14K both stock and muffler modded, so not a lot of WOT RPMs were found, but it definately picked up torque in the cut, to the tune of 10-12%. Not bad at all!



Looks good Brad. Man your hardcore, cutting cookies in the night with a flashlight!! LOL


----------



## THALL10326

dingeryote said:


> Your new pet is already behind bieng heavier, the same thing you Koolaid drinkers used to slander the 346 about.
> 
> It had better be significantly faster and as responsive, and not just the margin of chain or a knot either way, or it's still the loser.
> 
> I was hoping the 261 was going to be setting a new mark, but so far it has failed to even reach the existing one.
> 
> Somebody has to push Husky and Dolmar to raise the bar.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Your flapping them jaws awful hard there. Fact is the 261 doesn't have to do much of anything to put a hurtin on the rest where it counts. Remember ole wise one 10 261's will outcut 1 5110 and 2 346's. Sorry to awake you from your dream but your snoring was annoying,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 2000ssm6

blsnelling said:


> The muffler mod results are in. This cant is solid Oak, and measures about 10"x11". The cuts times are indeed faster with the muffler mod, but there's more to it than that. When bone stock, pushing on it resulted in slower cut times. Now that the muffler is modded, it has the torque and actually cuts faster with a heavier load. We have it tuned to 14K both stock and muffler modded, so not a lot of WOT RPMs were found, but it definately picked up torque in the cut, to the tune of 10-12%. Not bad at all!
> 
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gIpiD-jjvuc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gIpiD-jjvuc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



Cutting in the dark. CAD at it's finest.


----------



## THALL10326

2000ssm6 said:


> I knew you were going to see these sooner or later, LOL. It was a deal I could not pass up. I really wanted a FS250 and BR600 but these were in real good shape for the $$$.
> 
> The 8001 is heavy, no doubt. I haven't used a 600 but for 15-20 minutes but their power seems to be somewhat equal. The vibes are felt more on the 8001 and I don't like the throttle control. Other than those grips, I can live with it. Both the 8001 and 600 want to twist your body at WOT, I need to gain some weight I guess.:biggrinbounce2:
> 
> The trimmer seems to be fine. It's killed a few saplings so far but will really get used in the summer.



I forgives ya, I'm not brand bias like Troll. Put a guard on that trimmer and keep the TINY gearbox greased, you may get three years out of it. Not sure if a Stihl gearhead will fit that shaft but when it goes out I'll send you one,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling

A couple engine specs are in. Compression is 161 PSI on it's second tank of fuel. Squish is a HUGE .040"+. It doesn't measure on my solder. That just means more easy gains


----------



## blsnelling

I hadn't planned on it, but I threw the same B&C on this 026 I have here. It's a very good running 026, with none of the carburetion problems that I seem to run into with them. It's 20-22% slower than the new MS261.


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l-WTSkoFBH8?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l-WTSkoFBH8?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## 2000ssm6

THALL10326 said:


> I forgives ya, I'm not brand bias like Troll. Put a guard on that trimmer and keep the TINY gearbox greased, you may get three years out of it. Not sure if a Stihl gearhead will fit that shaft but when it goes out I'll send you one,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



LOL, don't make me sell it and get a FS250.:hmm3grin2orange: I'm going to order the guard soon, just need some time to stop by the dealer.


----------



## dingeryote

THALL10326 said:


> Your flapping them jaws awful hard there. Fact is the 261 doesn't have to do much of anything to put a hurtin on the rest where it counts. Remember ole wise one 10 261's will outcut 1 5110 and 2 346's. Sorry to awake you from your dream but your snoring was annoying,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:




Ah yes. The Stihl happy meal theory.
Sell 50 gazillion soy and worm burgers and declare them better than Moms Roast beef because they sell better.

Problem with that theory is, it only applies to those who sell the things.
The rest of us actually have to use them.

On another note, I only run one saw at a time. 
Your numbers are meaningless to any end user with brain development past Herd instinct.

Ford Escorts racked up a million times more miles than Corvette in the same years.
By your definition, the Escort is the better car.LOL!!!!

Are you trying to say that Stihl is the Ford Escort of saws?
The Bic Mac of the nutrition world?:hmm3grin2orange:

LOL!!!
Ya keep selling those McStihls Tommy.
I'll swing through the drive through when i'm in a hurry and need to make a terd and don't mind the trots.

Are you the Ronald McStihl of sawdom? LOL!!!
All them Fat kids with greasy fingers sitting on your lap, with 2000 dressed up as the sawburgler running around swiping 200T's when you ain't looking? LOL!!!

I hope ya sell truckloads of them. LOL!!
Somebodys gotta.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## 2000ssm6

blsnelling said:


> A couple engine specs are in. Compression is 161 PSI on it's second tank of fuel. Squish is a HUGE .040"+. It doesn't measure on my solder. That just means more easy gains



161psi and .040"+??? Dang


----------



## Cedarkerf

Nice preview Brad.

Wow ounces and fractions of seconds:hmm3grin2orange::crazy1:

50cc saw not normally considerd a production saw.

I have some ideas on handleing for Roush racing that I think would improve their handling Ive seen pics of their cars.:crazy1:

After using 70+cc saws for 90% of cutting any 50cc saw feels light and nimble.opcorn:


----------



## Zombiechopper

dingeryote said:


> Ah yes. The Stihl happy meal theory.
> Sell 50 gazillion soy and worm burgers and declare them better than Moms Roast beef because they sell better.
> 
> Problem with that theory is, it only applies to those who sell the things.
> The rest of us actually have to use them.
> 
> On another note, I only run one saw at a time.
> Your numbers are meaningless to any end user with brain development past Herd instinct.
> 
> Ford Escorts racked up a million times more miles than Corvette in the same years.
> By your definition, the Escort is the better car.LOL!!!!
> 
> Are you trying to say that Stihl is the Ford Escort of saws?
> The Bic Mac of the nutrition world?:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> LOL!!!
> Ya keep selling those McStihls Tommy.
> I'll swing through the drive through when i'm in a hurry and need to make a terd and don't mind the trots.
> 
> Are you the Ronald McStihl of sawdom? LOL!!!
> All them Fat kids with greasy fingers sitting on your lap, with 2000 dressed up as the sawburgler running around swiping 200T's when you ain't looking? LOL!!!
> 
> I hope ya sell truckloads of them. LOL!!
> Somebodys gotta.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



So, that must make Husqvarna the Arby's of chainsaws?


----------



## blsnelling

2000ssm6 said:


> 161psi and .040"+??? Dang



Got to love it Makes for easy gains for the modder.


----------



## SawTroll

dingeryote said:


> *We see things differently*, and likely out of different needs.
> 
> The 346 fits the bill because of it's speed/power cutting mid sized stuff and snotty accelleration for limbing combined. Saves me from having to grab something bigger and saving time as well as the back.
> 
> A heavier saw with lazy accelleration and similar grunt just ain't what I'm looking for. Handling depends on weight distribution as much as weight, and the morphology of the user..I always liked the handling of the 260, just don't like the fact that it is a Dog.
> 
> I gotta disagree on the handling of larger saws bieng less important.
> It's one thing to fight a little 12lb saw that dosn't exactly fit, but a 20lb saw that dosn't handle, will absolutely stomp your ass after a bit LOL!!
> 
> 
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Not too differently - the reason I say handling is less important on larger saws is that it takes a little more time to move them around anyway, so you have more time to adjust for any "mistakes" in the saws design.


----------



## Zombiechopper

2000ssm6 said:


> 161psi and .040"+??? Dang



that is something else.... 

man that means exhaust must be low already. can probably tighten squish, raise exhaust roof and still keep that torque while gaining a ton of revs. Not to mention the snap its going to gain in throttle response


----------



## dingeryote

2000ssm6 said:


> 9.6 ounces Yote!! LOL. This is the first 261 to hit the scene and has already left a mark. A mark on the 346 that is. You and Troll keep the FOS comments up. I expected a little more from you but I guess I was worng. Oh well....
> 
> Can't wait for my 261!!!!!:chainsawguy:



9.6 ounces is more than the difference you were calling significant just a couple weeks ago while defending the 260 LOL!!!

Just pointing out that if the 346 was heavy, the 261 is a boat anchor.
The 260 was the benchmark for weight. The 346 for everything else.

If anything the hypocracy is all yours. 

You keep trying to make this a devisive matter. 
Ya don't have to.

We all know Stihl could slap a sticker on a pointy rock tied to a stick and you would insist that it's a better saw than anything else.

Objective... I reckon it ain't possible with the Creamsickle Koolaid stains on your face. LOL!!

Now grab your McStihl nuggets and sit on Tommy McStihls lap and hush...Brads posting stuff...who knows the 261 might have a pair and we still don't know.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## blsnelling

Zombiechopper said:


> Not to mention the snap its going to gain in throttle response



I'm glad you said that. I failed to mention in the MM post, but throttle response really responed favorably with just the muffler mod. Porting always seems to enhance it even farther.


----------



## Zombiechopper

do you have basic timing numbers yet Brad? Just curious how low that exhasut must be to get that compression with huge squish


----------



## Shayne

blsnelling said:


> A couple engine specs are in. Compression is 161 PSI on it's second tank of fuel. Squish is a HUGE .040"+. It doesn't measure on my solder. That just means more easy gains



Brad, that sounds like real nice compression for .040 plus. Do you have any feel for stock 346 v stock 261? Watching the vids I was noticing that it looks like it has some torque, or is some of that from the new AV system? I have a 362 and it felt really strange for a while and has some of the same nose rearing when holding it out and and goosing it.

As far as the slow cutting I thought the first vid you shot, the day you got it, it looked slow, but when you where cutting against the 346 I thought it picked up considerable speed. That was just my eye and guessing in an unknown log, etc, etc...


Shayne


----------



## blsnelling

Zombiechopper said:


> do you have basic timing numbers yet Brad? Just curious how low that exhasut must be to get that compression with huge squish



I haven't gotten that far yet. I spent most of the evening getting the Oak cants made so that I could get the baseline cut times. Now the fun begins It's already obvious that I'll be running gasketless, but I may have to go even farther to get the squish I want. I'll get the port timing before removing the gasket though.


----------



## Zombiechopper

blsnelling said:


> I'm glad you said that. I failed to mention in the MM post, but throttle response really responed favorably with just the muffler mod. Porting always seems to enhance it even farther.



Some saws seem to gain TONS of response and others not so much. My 460 is the absolute snappiest saw I've ran, but my 361 with a more aggressive port job and tighter squish isn't a whole lot different than it was stock. I'm going to do my 357 soon I';m curious how the stuffers will affect things


----------



## dingeryote

blsnelling said:


> Got to love it Makes for easy gains for the modder.



That's kinda generous to simply be production tolerences no?

Any chance the engineer types intended the matter to offset something else?

Emissions maybe?

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## blsnelling

Shayne said:


> Brad, that sounds like real nice compression for .040 plus. Do you have any feel for stock 346 v stock 261? Watching the vids I was noticing that it looks like it has some torque...



I don't think a 346 has what this saw does, but we'll find out shortly. I should have a brand new one here in a day or two. Yes, this little thing has some serious torque for it's size! Very impressive indeed. I have no doubts it'll handle a 20" B&C quite well.


----------



## blsnelling

dingeryote said:


> That's kinda generous to simply be production tolerences no?
> 
> Any chance the engineer types intended the matter to offset something else?
> 
> Emissions maybe?
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



It's just free candy on the table, ready for easy pickin's


----------



## Anthony_Va.

Man, has everyone gotten at each other's throats!

Even Dinger? I have never seen you go off the edge like this. :biggrinbounce2:

I think the suspense is getting to us all. We will see soon enough who the king is. I know one thing though, the 346 is a badazz. If the 261 ends up being faster, I will have to have one, as I had been debating a 346 already. 

I see Stihlsluts bragging, and Husky hoes whining all through this thread. The truth of the matter is, this saw is going to hold it's own in the 50cc class. The 346 is still going to be the same ole badboy it is now. Why is everybody making an issue over half a pound? We should all be happy that we have two good 50cc saws now, as the 260 really is'nt too much of a saw IMO. 

From the guy to is thought to be a Stihlhead, but is truly just a Sawhead! :hmm3grin2orange:

Zombiechopper: I agree on the tags being funny. That is hilarious! Curb stomps? Rosie O'Donnel? Rue Paul? WTF? :help::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## rbtree

dingeryote said:


> You're right.
> It's already heavier and 30% slower than a ported 346.
> 
> Either Brad is a genious and is getting huge gains out of a 50cc saw, or your new morsel is a fat, slow turd, replacing a light slow terd
> 
> 
> Dingeryote



Ummm...my 346NE, the first one that tree_slinger ported, was, according to him, 54% faster after he ported it......

Two years later, it's still an awesome saw....a bit faster than my ehp 5100, which was the first or second 5100 that was ever ported, I think.


----------



## dingeryote

Anthony_Va. said:


> Man, has everyone gotten at each other's throats!
> 
> Even Dinger? I have never seen you go off the edge like this. :biggrinbounce2:
> 
> I think the suspense is getting to us all. We will see soon enough who the king is. I know one thing though, the 346 is a badazz. If the 261 ends up being faster, I will have to have one, as I had been debating a 346 already.
> 
> I see Stihlsluts bragging, and Husky hoes whining all through this thread. The truth of the matter is, this saw is going to hold it's own in the 50cc class. The 346 is still going to be the same ole badboy it is now. Why is everybody making an issue over half a pound? We should all be happy that we have two good 50cc saws now, as the 260 really is'nt too much of a saw IMO.
> 
> From the guy to is thought to be a Stihlhead, but is truly just a Sawhead! :hmm3grin2orange:



LOL!!!:agree2:

Just firing back. Our little 250 is kinda circling the drain and we will be needing another little saw around here to beat on.

The weight issue is a dissapointment and some thin skinned Koolaid guzzlers took offense to simple objectivity.

LOL!!
I'm hoping the 261 works out so Stihl finally has a decent 50cc saw in thier line up. I like options more than I like any corporation.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## 2000ssm6

dingeryote said:


> The weight issue is a dissapointment



To you and Troll. Read the first few posts where Brad, Andre and Nik said the 261 felt lighter than the 346. Not so much dissapointment now eh? If you can't even tell 9.6 ounces of difference, there isn't an arguement. Is it that hard to accept?

btw, want a replacement for the 250? Try a 211, the 261 will be leaps and bounds over both. You have a 346 for the 50cc class.


----------



## Anthony_Va.

dingeryote said:


> LOL!!!:agree2:
> 
> Just firing back. Our little 250 is kinda circling the drain and we will be needing another little saw around here to beat on.
> 
> The weight issue is a dissapointment and some thin skinned Koolaid guzzlers took offense to simple objectivity.
> 
> LOL!!
> I'm hoping the 261 works out so Stihl finally has a decent 50cc saw in thier line up. I like options more than I like any corporation.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



I feel ya mang!

It's an unusual change from the usual "make me spit the cereal in the keyboard post I see from you. :hmm3grin2orange:

It's all good though. It is a funny thing that people can be blinded to certain brands and not even consider anything else. I do run all Stihl, but I can always appreciate a better saw from another company. 

Even if it is a half ounce heavier or lighter. :notrolls2:


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> So when the 346NE was fatter than the 260, the 346 was stihl the better saw? Even with that sucky outboard clutch? LOL, your comments hold water like a sieve. Get off that high horse 346 and get back into the real world. I can admit when I'm wrong, can you?
> 
> ....



You read everything like you like to read it, and disregard and "forget" anything that you don't like to comment on in your next post. It doesn't help to even tell you simple facts a hundred times - if it doesn't fit with the "picture" you want to create, you just disregard it, and act like you never read it - maybe you didn't care enough to do that? :monkey:

Regardless how bad a Stihl design is, you always will stand up and "defend" it - to most of us that means you are making a fool of yourself - but you surely don't seem to get the point! 

I have said lots of times that Husky has several designs that I don't like - and even have got a lot of "flak" for preferring the MS361 over the 357xp - it is a great pity that Stihl didn't ever make more models like that one, as it was a really good one. They just had too wait too long, and partly over-do it when they finally did. They also are still are introducing new first generation "strato" saws, when others have that stage behind them.

I used to like Stihl as a brand, but I don't like how they have handled things since 2004 or so, it just is a major letdown!


----------



## banshee67

do you realize how crazy this would all look to outsiders?

people have no idea that in some small corner of the internet a war rages on about which 50cc chain saw is better.. i guess it could be worse


----------



## banshee67

SawTroll said:


> You read everything like you like to read it, and disregard and "forget" anything that you don't like to comment on in your next post. It doesn't help to even tell you simple facts a hundred times - if it doesn't fit with the "picture" you want to create, you just disregard it, and act like you never read it - maybe you didn't care enough to do that? :monkey:
> 
> Regardless how bad a Stihl design is, you always will stand up and "defend" it - to most of us that means you are making a fool of yourself - but you surely don't seem to get the point!
> 
> I have said lots of times that Husky has several designs that I don't like - and even have got a lot of "flak" for preferring the MS361 over the 357xp - it is a great pity that Stihl didn't ever make more models like that one, as it was a really good one. They just had too wait too long, and partly over-do it when they finally did. They also are still are introducing new first generation "strato" saws, when others have that stage behind them.
> 
> I used to like Stihl as a brand, but I don't like how they have handled things since 2004 or so, it just is a major letdown!



so what are your thoughts/opinions after finally getting to run the new 261?


----------



## wigglesworth

SawTroll said:


> ......and disregard and "forget" anything that you don't like to comment on in your next post.





banshee67 said:


> so what are your thoughts/opinions after finally getting to run the new 261?



Now Troll....dont disregard the question....


----------



## Anthony_Va.

banshee67 said:


> do you realize how crazy this would all look to outsiders?
> 
> people have no idea that in some small corner of the internet a war rages on about which 50cc chain saw is better.. i guess it could be worse



LoL! No sheit man. Millions of people are all over the web right now doing differentr things, not knowing about the chainsaw war going on here at AS.:hmm3grin2orange:

I hate that it's gotten out of hand. This is a great thread and needs to be toned down a littleIMO. Lets just sit back and watch the chainsaw battle, and drop the brand war, shall we? :notrolls2:


----------



## litefoot

I don't like the 261...it starts fights.:sword: So which saw would you pick in a sword fight...or in this case, a chain-saber fight?


----------



## SawTroll

wigglesworth said:


> Now Troll....dont disregard the question....




I have answered that at least 3 times in this thread, and the answer still is the same - go back and read!

Actually, I find it a bit amusing that so many doesn't seem to be able to figure out how a saw will handle by the way it is built - in many cases I guess that is more about will than ability......


----------



## CORNFEDMIDGET

in-board, out-board clutches, 6.3893908 oz. differences, xj5000 spring mounted titanium guides. None of that matters. The fact is, this guy is out at midnight, cutting cookies with the help of a headlamp, just shows his excitement. I think it is great. I saw the video, and had a chuckle. Have fun with the new saw.


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gIpiD-jjvuc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gIpiD-jjvuc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/QUOTE]


----------



## wigglesworth

SawTroll said:


> I have answered that at least 3 times in this thread, and the answer still is the same - go back and read!



I cant read....:help:

Seriously though, all you folks bickering, stating "facts", arguing bout a freakin saw, sound like a bunch of kids debating on who's daddy can beat up who's daddy. This thread had great potential, now its just a big waste of bandwidth.....


----------



## parrisw

dingeryote said:


> Ah yes. The Stihl happy meal theory.
> Sell 50 gazillion soy and worm burgers and declare them better than Moms Roast beef because they sell better.
> 
> Problem with that theory is, it only applies to those who sell the things.
> The rest of us actually have to use them.
> 
> On another note, I only run one saw at a time.
> Your numbers are meaningless to any end user with brain development past Herd instinct.
> 
> Ford Escorts racked up a million times more miles than Corvette in the same years.
> By your definition, the Escort is the better car.LOL!!!!
> 
> Are you trying to say that Stihl is the Ford Escort of saws?
> The Bic Mac of the nutrition world?:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> LOL!!!
> Ya keep selling those McStihls Tommy.
> I'll swing through the drive through when i'm in a hurry and need to make a terd and don't mind the trots.
> 
> Are you the Ronald McStihl of sawdom? LOL!!!
> All them Fat kids with greasy fingers sitting on your lap, with 2000 dressed up as the sawburgler running around swiping 200T's when you ain't looking? LOL!!!
> 
> I hope ya sell truckloads of them. LOL!!
> Somebodys gotta.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote





dingeryote said:


> 9.6 ounces is more than the difference you were calling significant just a couple weeks ago while defending the 260 LOL!!!
> 
> Just pointing out that if the 346 was heavy, the 261 is a boat anchor.
> The 260 was the benchmark for weight. The 346 for everything else.
> 
> If anything the hypocracy is all yours.
> 
> You keep trying to make this a devisive matter.
> Ya don't have to.
> 
> We all know Stihl could slap a sticker on a pointy rock tied to a stick and you would insist that it's a better saw than anything else.
> 
> Objective... I reckon it ain't possible with the Creamsickle Koolaid stains on your face. LOL!!
> 
> Now grab your McStihl nuggets and sit on Tommy McStihls lap and hush...Brads posting stuff...who knows the 261 might have a pair and we still don't know.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Ok, that is freaking hilarious!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## parrisw

rbtree said:


> Ummm...my 346NE, the first one that tree_slinger ported, was, according to him, 54% faster after he ported it......
> 
> Two years later, it's still an awesome saw....a bit faster than my ehp 5100, which was the first or second 5100 that was ever ported, I think.



Yes I agree. Here in-lies the problem. And I'm going to say it before its all said and done, otherwise some people will call me out and just say I'm a cheerleader.

Slinger said he showed over 50% gain with a 346 he did. How much did Brad get out of his? Not sure. 

I think a stock for stock is a better comparison. Because depending on the builder they outcome could be swayed? What if Brad does these two saws, and the 261 comes out on top? 

Then what if someone else comes along and mods the same 2 saws and the 346 comes out on top? See what I'm saying, there are so many variables to this, when modding saws. 

I personally don't care what saw comes out on top, I like the Husky design better. But that's just my opinion.


----------



## SawTroll

wigglesworth said:


> I cant read....:help:
> 
> Seriously though, all you folks bickering, stating "facts", arguing bout a freakin saw, sound like a bunch of kids debating on who's daddy can beat up who's daddy. This thread had great potential, now its just a big waste of bandwidth.....




I agree with the last sentence - I didn't want to mess the thread up with "brand wars", but some others obviously wanted it to be just that.

That aside, bottom line is that saw will probably perform very well, but not "spank" the other good 50cc saws, and it will far from handle like a 346xp in the woods - and that is not because of weight!

It also is a fact that Stihl seldom or never say _*anything*_ that counts about handling in their marketing, while it is a major point for other brands - and those brands are not just blowing air.


----------



## jrjuday

It's bush &cheney's fault!!!!!!!


----------



## RTK

Thanks for all the work Brad, keep it coming!!


----------



## Anthony_Va.

parrisw said:


> Yes I agree. Here in-lies the problem. And I'm going to say it before its all said and done, otherwise some people will call me out and just say I'm a cheerleader.
> 
> Slinger said he showed over 50% gain with a 346 he did. How much did Brad get out of his? Not sure.
> 
> I think a stock for stock is a better comparison. Because depending on the builder they outcome could be swayed? What if Brad does these two saws, and the 261 comes out on top?
> 
> Then what if someone else comes along and mods the same 2 saws and the 346 comes out on top? See what I'm saying, there are so many variables to this, when modding saws.
> 
> I personally don't care what saw comes out on top, I like the Husky design better. But that's just my opinion.



Two biggest variables would be the builder, and which has the most room for improvement. I'm with you in thinking stock to stock is the best way, but unlike you, I'm pulling for the 261. :hmm3grin2orange: 

But, at the same time, I'm not pulling against anyone. 

I just like the way the 260 handles, more than I do the Husky 346xp. Thats the main reason I hav'ent bought a 346 yet. The 346 I have ran many times, is definetly a killer saw though. I guess the balance of the Stihl is more fit to me. The 346 cuts faster and thats a fact. So if this 261 handles as good as the 260, I will more than likely like it the most. 

Thats why it's so good to have different choices though. It definetly is'nt anything to fight about. Everyone should be happy. 

They should pass out chill pills at the homepage. :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## SawTroll

OK, I give up here, as most just post whatever they feel like posting, without even caring to read the previous posts properly - why put efforts into posts that aren't really read? :monkey:


----------



## Anthony_Va.

SawTroll said:


> OK, I give up here, as most just post whatever they feel like posting, without even caring to read the previous posts properly - why put efforts into posts that aren't really read? :monkey:



It's getting rough in here ole bud!

I see your point, at least 90% of the time anyways. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 8433jeff

I've read every thread in the last half hour. Kids, go to your rooms. If I read one more sentence about how it (261) handles from someone who hasn't had the damn thing in their hands, I'm coming over there. Same goes for Mr. Can't wait to sell them, I'm sure you can't, but sell the others first, or discount them. Lord knows if your Daddy was still alive you'd both be cutting switches right now. BTW Brad, I assume you will still do the comparisons; post them where them clowns can't find them, as I still want to know but have read all the #####ing I can stand for a while.


----------



## Anthony_Va.

8433jeff said:


> I've read every thread in the last half hour. Kids, go to your rooms. If I read one more sentence about how it (261) handles from someone who hasn't had the damn thing in their hands, I'm coming over there. Same goes for Mr. Can't wait to sell them, I'm sure you can't, but sell the others first, or discount them. Lord knows if your Daddy was still alive you'd both be cutting switches right now. BTW Brad, I assume you will still do the comparisons; post them where them clowns can't find them, as I still want to know but have read all the #####ing I can stand for a while.



Eh, come on now. You know it's been a good read so far. :hmm3grin2orange:

Brad, How does the internals of the muffler look? Are they like the 362 muffs?

How did you mod the muffler?


----------



## SawTroll

Anthony_Va. said:


> It's getting rough in here ole bud!
> 
> I see your point, at least 90% of the time anyways. :hmm3grin2orange:



OK, I have been into much worse, so I will answer;

The problem is that too many don't care to even read anything like that 90% number, they just see one sentence, and start commenting on that single little shread of what I posted.

Also, I am astonished that so many don't understand that it is easy to predict how a saw will handle, if you know how it is laid out in the design. There also are a lot more info on the details of the 261 design availiable, than what has been posted on here.

Stating that I can't predict about how a saw will handle, based on the details of the design, is just stupid - and is showing lack of knowledge on the posters side - or simply indifference.


----------



## dingeryote

All good fun and poop slingin' aside.

Stihl has apparently gotten better with the Strato design, as it's more difficult to get meaningfull gains at lower displacement.

Yeah, the weight thing is there, but it wasn't "Added" as the 261 is not a rehashed 260. It's it's own thing and likely to be improved upon later as the engineer types get thier heads wrapped around and tinker with the Strato concept with feedback from several years worth of field use.

There is no doubt, room for unleashing the animal a bit as I am sure any company will take a conservative approach on a first effort. 

The 346 comparison is just paint wars. The 346 is just as dead and gone as the 260 except as a referrence points.

Stock and MM comparisons seem to make the most sense, as that is what the majority of users will be running.

IMO... Ported comparisons is a matter of sawtweakers skill, and at a certain point, users priority of reliability/service life over power.
All the same, it's fun as hell to see what kind of sick and twisted can be squeezed outta the things. LOL!!

I am really interested in seeing what kind of gains can be had from opening up the 261's intake and straightening it out some.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## Andyshine77

I'll start by saying let's try and not make any of this personal, as this is all really just for fun. And to those who haven't ran the saw in question, you have no leg to stand on. 

I Know what you're saying with design ST, but they're things about the 261 that I believe make it handle better. For instance the recoil on the 261 is plastic and that side of the saw feels light. At this point I feel the 261 handles very well AKA it rotates with less effort than the 260 and especially 5100. I love the way Ferrari's are designed, but who's to say if I'm ever fortunate enough to drive one I wouldn't hate it, the possibility is there.

2K I know you love Stihl and that is more than fine with me. However anyone that thinks Stihl is better than all other makes, hasn't ran, worked on, or ported any saws himself. For the most part they all make great products.

So guys pull your heads out of the sand, the weather is nice out here.

Now on to real facts as I know them. I don't see the 346 as having more torque than the 261, and with a MM the throttle response is excellent. I can't say the same about the other stock strato saws I've ran. If I had to guess and this is a long shot of a guess, the 261 will indeed out cut the 346. Remember this is coming from a big 346 fan.


----------



## Anthony_Va.

Yea, I'm interested in seeing the gains he gets with that stock squish and still pulling 160.

It seems there is alot to be improved on, but who knows what the inside of the cylinder looks like. I'm sure we'll find out soon though. I wonder how well ole Brad is sleeping these days. With all the saws dancin around in his head.

Speaking of which, it's bedtime here for me so I'm out for now. Have to go in tomorrow extra early to feed cattle. Prolly from 5:30 till around 1. After which it's building cattle pens for a local man until around 5:30 evening. Crappy 12 hour days on 4 hours sleep. Most sleep I ever get these days is 4-5 hours. Can't be good. I can't beat myself off of the computer, lol. :hmm3grin2orange:

'night buds.


----------



## SawTroll

dingeryote said:


> ....
> The 346 comparison is just paint wars. The 346 is just as dead and gone as the 260 except as a referrence points. ....



It will be with us for at least one more year, it is by no means dead! 

The replacement has been in the works for some time, the rumors about intro vary from 2012 to 2014 in Sweden, from what I have seen.....:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## SawTroll

Andyshine77 said:


> .....
> I Know what you're saying with design ST, but they're things about the 261 that I believe make it handle better. For instance the recoil on the 261 is plastic and that side of the saw feels light. At this point I feel the 261 handles very well AKA it rotates with less effort than the 260 and especially 5100. I love the way Ferrari's are designed, but who's to say if I'm ever fortunate enough to drive one I wouldn't hate it, the possibility is there .....



Well, finally some real info, that I didn't know before - I am sure the plastic recoil cover (as on the Husky) will make a slight difference, but there still is a long way to go before it can compensate for the outboard clutch and the heavy Mag clutch cover of the 346xp + the slimmer case of that one.


----------



## dingeryote

SawTroll said:


> It will be with us for at least one more year, it is by no means dead!
> 
> The replacement has been in the works for some time, the rumors about intro vary from 2012 to 2014 in Sweden, from what I have seen.....:biggrinbounce2:



Yeah, it's dead.Meaning it is not a Strato, nor will it see any changes in it's remaining production cycle. The end of the non Strato Era etc..done.
Even if it remains ahead of the new 261, it dosn't matter because it will soon be in the same boat as the 262. 

I thought it was due out in 2011...
Well, that ain't a bad thing.
The second mouse almost always gets the cheese anyhow.:hmm3grin2orange:

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## bcorradi

Hey rbtree - nice to see you posting again. I suppose your getting excited for skiing. Make sure to share some of your amazing photography when you get a chance.


----------



## SawTroll

dingeryote said:


> Yeah, it's dead.Meaning it is not a Strato, nor will it see any changes in it's remaining production cycle. The end of the non Strato Era etc..done.
> Even if it remains ahead of the new 261, it dosn't matter because it will soon be in the same boat as the 262.
> 
> I thought it was due out in 2011...
> Well, that ain't a bad thing.
> The second mouse almost always gets the cheese anyhow.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



My post was about rumors about the 5*5*0xp, and 2012 - nothing to do with the 60cc saws, that surely will arrive much earlier, at least in the US.


----------



## bcorradi

SawTroll said:


> Well, finally some real info, that I didn't know before - I am sure the plastic recoil cover (as on the Husky) will make a slight difference, but there still is a long way to go before it can compensate for the outboard clutch and the heavy Mag clutch cover of the 346xp + the slimmer case of that one.



The 024/026/260 had a plastic recoil cover too. Just how much more does the mag cover on the 346 weigh more than the mag cover on a 260? Also, how much slimmer is the case on a 346 vs the 260 or 261? How many more ounces per square inch is there on a 346 as you progressively move towards the bar vs a 260? I've read a lot of IPLS, but never could gleam the knowledge that you can just by looking at the IPL. I think you may suffer from DCBUYA syndrome instead of actual facts.


----------



## Wildman1024

The next saw I buy will have a plastic recoil housing FO SHO! That much less weight on the flywheel side outta make it handle that much better :monkey:


----------



## SWE#Kipp

I have run them both and the 261 runs very nice but for the limbing technique i use the 346 handles better but that's just me and maybe if had the chance to run it some more i might get a better feel for it !?
But the real "shootout" is to be seen when the 550xp arrives (sometime at the end of next year i think) 

"550xp" .vs 261 will be a good one for sure 

Well keep on the good ole bashing now !!!

Looking forward to see the modding gains Brad


----------



## SawTroll

bcorradi said:


> The 024/026/260 had a plastic recoil cover too. Just how much more does the mag cover on the 346 weigh more than the mag cover on a 260? Also, how much slimmer is the case on a 346 vs the 260 or 261? How many more ounces per square inch is there on a 346 as you progressively move towards the bar vs a 260? I've read a lot of IPLS, but never could gleam the knowledge that you can just by looking at the IPL. I think you may suffer from DCBUYA syndrome instead of actual facts.



I never used the IPLs as a reference on the 261, only pics that has been availiable on the Internet, mostly Stihls German web-site.

Have you ever held a 346xp (or similar) clutch cover in your hand, and compared it to a Stihl one? There is a huge weight difference! 

If you want measurements, make them yourself - that part of your post is just BS, and nothing else! :monkey:


----------



## tdi-rick

This has to be the funniest thread in a long time, Dinger's been on _fire_ 





As a few have already said, comparing after being modded is pretty meaningless, it's how they compare box stock for box stock to be meaningful for 99.99% of users.

Of course _then_ seeing how far you can improve one without burning it up in commercial use is all fun, and even more fun when someone does a removable head, nitro, pipe......


----------



## SawTroll

tdi-rick said:


> This has to be the funniest thread in a long time, Dinger's been on _fire_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a few have already said, comparing after being modded is pretty meaningless, it's how they compare box stock for box stock to be meaningful for 99.99% of users.
> 
> Of course _then_ seeing how far you can improve one without burning it up in commercial use is all fun, and even more fun when someone does a removable head, nitro, pipe......



First it was nice, then it got ugly, and by now it is just fun! :yoyo::yoyo:

....but there may be a couple of members that don't want to understand that.....


----------



## 2000ssm6

Andyshine77 said:


> 2K I know you love Stihl and that is more than fine with me. However anyone that thinks Stihl is better than all other makes, hasn't ran, worked on, or ported any saws himself. For the most part they all make great products.


Yup, love 'em. I know the others make good stuff, one of the reasons I just bought that Redmax trimmer and blower. I can think outside the box, just prefer Stihl most of the time. They have never let me down so I will continue to support them.



Andyshine77 said:


> Now on to real facts as I know them. I don't see the 346 as having more torque than the 261, and with a MM the throttle response is excellent. I can't say the same about the other stock strato saws I've ran. If I had to guess and this is a long shot of a guess, the 261 will indeed out cut the 346. Remember this is coming from a big 346 fan.



Well........We could have saved 20 pages. I know a few guys didn't want to hear that post but it speaks for miles. Now lets see if they can accept it.


----------



## Trigger-Time

Brad,

I know it would be a little more work for you, but I vote for a new thread. Copy your post and videos and start over.

Then some of you need to start a couple of threads.

"I Hate Stihl and the people that use them"


"I Hate Husky and the people that use them"


Maybe it doesn't bother Brad all this BS but IMO it's has taken
a very good thread down the drain. I'm all for knocking husky
in good fun from time to time but some of this has went overboard.



TT


----------



## spike60

I guess that last night was a good night for the weather to knock out my internet. 
:biggrinbounce2: I mean, you just knew that this topic would have to go critical mass here. It'll probably stay that way through Christmas too. 

Best line in all 20 pages was Tommy's "water in the pond went down two feet when I pulled out the bass."


----------



## SawTroll

I actually tried to let the celebration of the 261 carry on in peace, until the thread "exploded" in my face.....:bang::bang:

That was not fun at all at the moment, but it gradually got more fun!


----------



## THALL10326

dingeryote said:


> Ah yes. The Stihl happy meal theory.
> Sell 50 gazillion soy and worm burgers and declare them better than Moms Roast beef because they sell better.
> 
> Problem with that theory is, it only applies to those who sell the things.
> The rest of us actually have to use them.
> 
> On another note, I only run one saw at a time.
> Your numbers are meaningless to any end user with brain development past Herd instinct.
> 
> Ford Escorts racked up a million times more miles than Corvette in the same years.
> By your definition, the Escort is the better car.LOL!!!!
> 
> Are you trying to say that Stihl is the Ford Escort of saws?
> The Bic Mac of the nutrition world?:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> LOL!!!
> Ya keep selling those McStihls Tommy.
> I'll swing through the drive through when i'm in a hurry and need to make a terd and don't mind the trots.
> 
> Are you the Ronald McStihl of sawdom? LOL!!!
> All them Fat kids with greasy fingers sitting on your lap, with 2000 dressed up as the sawburgler running around swiping 200T's when you ain't looking? LOL!!!
> 
> I hope ya sell truckloads of them. LOL!!
> Somebodys gotta.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Dayummm Ding I didn't figure you would write a book over Stihl kicking the rest in the gonads. Yes we know, it hurts. You say the problem with us is we sell them but yaw have to use them, well it seems yaw are the ones buying them, gulltin for your own punishment, is that what your trying to say? haha, I love it. I prefer to think those that buy all those Stihls like a real hamburger, not a soybean one, :biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2:


----------



## THALL10326

SawTroll said:


> I never used the IPLs as a reference on the 261, *only pics* that has been availiable on the Internet, mostly Stihls German web-site.
> 
> Have you ever held a 346xp (or similar) clutch cover in your hand, and compared it to a Stihl one? There is a huge weight difference!
> 
> If you want measurements, make them yourself - that part of your post is just BS, and nothing else! :monkey:



So thats how you get your ideas, well kiss my hiny. How do those pics handle ole boy, are they heavy with lots of color,


----------



## hori

thanks again Brad for going out of his way to show everyone this new saw. Alot of people *talk the talk* on here since but Brad backs up his findings with *videos* and not just talk out of his A$$ like alot of the internet trolls on here,

I laugh when people who haven`t used a particular saw being tested or even worse held one but be damned they know everything about that saw as google is there best friend..


I look forward to seeing these saws tested stock, meaning stock muffler on both no mods. If husky sells that saw with crappy muffler then so be it lets see it STOCK like 2 average Joe`s buying them and testing them out. That be an eye opener I bet.

Modded is different and leave that to Brad as he knows what he is doing.

Good job :greenchainsaw:


----------



## Trigger-Time

I forgot, Brad looks as if the homemade mill worked good.

Nice looking cant!




TT


----------



## StihlyinEly

SawTroll said:


> *Well, finally some real info, that I didn't know before* - I am sure the plastic recoil cover (as on the Husky) will make a slight difference, but there still is a long way to go before it can compensate for the outboard clutch and the heavy Mag clutch cover of the 346xp + the slimmer case of that one.



I quoted the whole thing so Trolly wouldn't think I was taking anything out of context, but bolded what caught my attention.

So Troll, with respect to you, that tidbit of info about the plastic recoil cover must not have been on your spec sheet. New information for you that only came from someone who handled the saw.

Now, you acknowledge it will make a slight difference. I wonder if you also acknowledge the possibility that there may be _further_ slight differences that can't be gleaned from published specs. If you are as logical and objective as you present yourself, you must agree the possibility exists.

Clearly, in the above quote, you already have acknowledged that not everything of value about a saw's handling can be gleaned from specs.

So from now on you will just look silly when you attempt to make definitive statements about a saw's handling characteristics without having run it. 

Onward!

I'll be really interested in how the stock 346 times compare with the stock 261 times when Brad gets that 346 in the door. It's fun to see how they stack up against each other. 

But it's not very important.


----------



## BloodOnTheIce

You ladies done squawking?


----------



## PLMCRZY

BloodOnTheIce said:


> You ladies done squawking?



:hmm3grin2orange: I was just thinking the same thing.....


----------



## THALL10326

BloodOnTheIce said:


> You ladies done squawking?



Blood I'm looking at that saw and thinking hmmmmmmmm, nice, why, here's why,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

I'm big Dan T, those other two, guess who they are,LOLOL



<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZDd_ryixqyA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZDd_ryixqyA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## sunfish

Very entertaining, Gents! :biggrinbounce2:

I would sure hope the new Stihl beats the 346xp, which came out in 1999.


----------



## FATGUY

parrisw said:


> Yes I agree. Here in-lies the problem. And I'm going to say it before its all said and done, otherwise some people will call me out and just say I'm a cheerleader.
> 
> Slinger said he showed over 50% gain with a 346 he did. How much did Brad get out of his? Not sure.
> 
> I think a stock for stock is a better comparison. Because depending on the builder they outcome could be swayed? What if Brad does these two saws, and the 261 comes out on top?
> 
> Then what if someone else comes along and mods the same 2 saws and the 346 comes out on top? See what I'm saying, there are so many variables to this, when modding saws.
> 
> I personally don't care what saw comes out on top, I like the Husky design better. But that's just my opinion.



Just so you all know, Brad's 346 kicked the snot out of a Slingr ported 346 last year at WKPoors winter GTG.....


----------



## blsnelling

FATGUY said:


> Just so you all know, Brad's 346 kicked the snot out of a Slingr ported 346 last year at WKPoors winter GTG.....



Please. The last thing I want to do is turn this into a builders war. But on the other hand, I don't want the results of this 261/346 competition to be tainted by perceived perfomance of the mods. Take the saws for what they are. Both are being modded by the same modder, so are reflective of how each saw responds to similiar treatment.


----------



## blsnelling

Another thing, this new 346 I have coming won't be getting the level of treatment my personal 346 has. It will be getting basic woods porting, just like the 261 will be.


----------



## bookerdog

FATGUY said:


> Just so you all know, Brad's 346 kicked the snot out of a Slingr ported 346 last year at WKPoors winter GTG.....



It really depends on how far slinger ported the saw your talking about. Slinger can be mild with a port and also take one much farther.


----------



## bookerdog

Ran a 261 yesterday nice saw.


----------



## blsnelling

bookerdog said:


> It really depends on how far slinger ported the saw your talking about. Slinger can be mild with a port and also take one much farther.



I understand that entirely. Let's please not turn this into a builder competition. That's not what this thread is about, and will only serve to destroy it:cheers"


----------



## FATGUY

blsnelling said:


> Please. The last thing I want to do is turn this into a builders war. But on the other hand, I don't want the results of this 261/346 competition to be tainted by perceived perfomance of the mods. Take the saws for what they are. Both are being modded by the same modder, so are reflective of how each saw responds to similiar treatment.



I wasn't dogging Slingr the least bit. Fact of the matter is, I've never run a Slingr ported saw and from what I hear, they're awesome. I was just stating a fact, and that fact is your 346 is an excellent bench mark to be tested against.


----------



## FATGUY

bookerdog said:


> It really depends on how far slinger ported the saw your talking about. Slinger can be mild with a port and also take one much farther.






bookerdog said:


> Ran a 261 yesterday nice saw.



:agree2::agree2:


----------



## bookerdog

blsnelling said:


> I understand that entirely. Let's please not turn this into a builder competition. That's not what this thread is about, and will only serve to destroy it:cheers"



Not where I was going. People need to understand there are degree's to which a saw is ported.


----------



## blsnelling

bookerdog said:


> Not where I was going. People need to understand there are degree's to which a saw is ported.



I understand. I just know how some can grab stuff like this and run away with it. It's all good


----------



## blsnelling

Something I failed to mention about the muffler mod... This stainless muffler is hard. There was no way I could get it to take a sheet metal screw. I ended up having to tap it and use a machine screw. That's some hard metal!


----------



## litefoot

8433jeff said:


> Lord knows if your Daddy was still alive you'd both be cutting switches right now. .



I still shudder everytime I remember back to hearing those words. On a serious note, Brad, I've been away for a bit (substituting reloading into the time I spent with saws) but it looks like you're still doing great and informative stuff here. Thanks...I guess...now I'm going to have to look real hard at a new 261.


----------



## blsnelling

litefoot said:


> I still shudder everytime I remember back to hearing those words.



"Don't make me take my belt off, son!"


----------



## bookerdog

Brad I havn't been on in awhile are builders starting to get more then 20 to 30 percent out of strat saws now.


----------



## logbutcher

Wood you ladies stop garter pulling.....pullleeezze ?

cAN WE HAVE A SHOOTOUT APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON BETWEEN THE 346XP AND THIS MS261 ---OUT OF THE BOX ? NOW,for the great unwashed listening in with baited breath.


----------



## blsnelling

logbutcher said:


> Wood you ladies stop garter pulling.....pullleeezze ?
> 
> cAN WE HAVE A SHOOTOUT APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON BETWEEN THE 346XP AND THIS MS261 ---OUT OF THE BOX ? NOW,for the great unwashed listening in with baited breath.



It's coming, it's coming, lol! You've already got the baseline cuts for the 261. The new 346 will be here tomorrow or the next day. I will make cuts with it bone stock. The muffler mod will also include an unlimited coil. I'll then port both saws and compare them again.


----------



## blsnelling

bookerdog said:


> Brad I havn't been on in awhile are builders starting to get more then 20 to 30 percent out of strat saws now.



That seems to be the typical results for any port job, strato or not. I've had good results with the stratos. They're just more work, meaning there are more ports to work on.


----------



## timistall

Brad...did you use a Husky deflector on the MM? Would it have been better to weld? I have them welded on my 372 & 361.


----------



## blsnelling

timistall said:


> Brad...did you use a Husky deflector on the MM? Would it have been better to weld? I have them welded on my 372 & 361.



Yes, I used a Husky deflector. I'll get some pics of it up for you guys.


----------



## bookerdog

If you ever want to do a 576 to 441 comparison let me know. I have a new 576 that can be used.


----------



## blsnelling

bookerdog said:


> If you ever want to do a 576 to 441 comparison let me know. I have a new 576 that can be used.



That would be fun, except the 441 I did is in NY It responded tremendously. I was very pleased with it.


----------



## blsnelling

The Husky deflector was too big to fit, so I ground the front and back flanges off. The only bad part is that there's nothing to hold the screen down in the front now.








I also opened up the factory port and left the screen out. The screen is TINY.


----------



## blsnelling

Here's the saw coming apart for measuring the port timing.


----------



## blsnelling

Very interesting bottom front AV mount. It should prove very interesting getting the handle back on.







The upper spring does not look to be replaceable. It does have an internal cable that limits its travel.


----------



## the westspartan

blsnelling said:


> That would be fun, except the 441 I did is in NY It responded tremendously. I was very pleased with it.



You can send that 576 to me I'll run it for ya against that 441.


----------



## blsnelling

That bump in the corner of the intake port is to hold the bottom ring end in.


----------



## blsnelling




----------



## blsnelling

Port timing is as follows.

Exhaust 103° ATDC
Transfers 121° ATDC
Intake 73° BTDC
Blowdown 18°

Squish without gasket .020" on three sides, .018" on the intake side.

Porting timing without gasket.

Exhaust 105° ATDC
Transfers 123° ATDC
Intake 76° BTDC

One interest point...the transfers are sloped much more than normal. They start opening at 121° ATDC on the intake side and angles to 136° on the exhaust side.


----------



## PasoRoblesJimmy

I'm thankful that we have a brand new toy to tinker with.

I'm thankful that we still have a Free Enterprise marketplace that facilitates creativity and competition and the freedom to shop around and choose whatever product we want to buy. 

When the fat lady sings, the only colors that really count are red, white and blue, not orange nor popsicle.

God Bless America By Kate Smith
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r26_CSzk3Xw


----------



## Trigger-Time

That piston is wild looking!




TT


----------



## blsnelling

Trigger-Time said:


> That piston is wild looking!



Standard fare for a strato saw. They are strange indeed.


----------



## blsnelling

Thankfully, I had no plans to do a popup on this saw. The crown is ony about .110" thick above the top ring.


----------



## wendell

blsnelling said:


>



Nice to see the Germans are getting a sense of humor! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling

wendell said:


> Nice to see the Germans are getting a sense of humor! :hmm3grin2orange:



:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## porsche965

Pretty darn exciting if you ask me. Dealers don't even have these on their shelves and here is one in Ohio being disected! 

Don't get more cutting edge than this!

Thanks Brad.


----------



## blsnelling

porsche965 said:


> Pretty darn exciting if you ask me. Dealers don't even have these on their shelves and here is one in Ohio being disected!
> 
> Don't get more cutting edge than this!
> 
> Thanks Brad.



Who needs a stinkin' warranty!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling

In this pic you can see how progressive the transfers are front to rear. I think I understand what they're doing here. By opening the intake side first, the pressure is higher on initial opening, and all of that pressure is directed to the back of the cylinder, and then progressively moves forward. I'm thinking this is an attempt to more positively purge the exhaust from the cylinder. Instead of opening the transfers all at once and "blasting" the exhaust out, it's being pushed out from the back forward. Make sense?


----------



## blsnelling

Here you can see where I've marked the skirt edge, and then where I intend to make the port. I'm only leaving 1-1 1/2 mm of coverage.







This is a better shot to show you the bulge in the intake that holds the lower ring end in.


----------



## Tzed250

blsnelling said:


> In this pic you can see how progressive the transfers are front to rear. I think I understand what they're doing here. By opening the intake side first, the pressure is higher on initial opening, and all of that pressure is directed to the back of the cylinder, and then progressively moves forward. I'm thinking this is an attempt to more positively purge the exhaust from the cylinder. Instead of opening the transfers all at once and "blasting" the exhaust out, it's being pushed out from the back forward. Make sense?



That is standard two-stroke scavenging. That is why they are called loop scavenged. Up the back, over the top, and down the front.


.


----------



## blsnelling

Tzed250 said:


> That is standard two-stroke scavenging. That is why they are called loop scavenged. Up the back, over the top, and down the front.
> 
> 
> .



I've just not seen it near this accentuated this much.


----------



## porsche965

blsnelling said:


> Who needs a stinkin' warranty!:hmm3grin2orange:



You aren't right! But that is what makes the best "The Best" 

That comment goes for all the Out of the Box Guys of AS.


----------



## Erick

I was kinda looking forward to running that thing in factory form on Saturday, but somehow I knew it wouldn't make it more than a couple day's without being molested.


----------



## blsnelling

Erick said:


> I was kinda looking forward to running that thing in factory form on Saturday, but somehow I knew it wouldn't make it more than a couple day's without being molested.



Too late now:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Erick

Should respond well, in true Stihl fashion it looks like a scaled down 441.


----------



## blsnelling

Erick said:


> Should respond well, in true Stihl fashion it looks like a scaled down 441.



The intake side of the saw is easier to work on


----------



## sjp

Great job!!!! Great info!!!!!! Keep it comeing


----------



## logbutcher

blsnelling said:


> It's coming, it's coming, lol! You've already got the baseline cuts for the 261. The new 346 will be here tomorrow or the next day. I will make cuts with it bone stock. The muffler mod will also include an unlimited coil. I'll then port both saws and compare them again.



Oh Thank you Oh Orange Guru.:chainsawguy:

We who are not worthy salute you.


----------



## Tzed250

blsnelling said:


> I've just not seen it near this accentuated this much.



They are trying to get the flow to emulate the flow from this:









.


----------



## 2000ssm6

Brad, what do you think of the p&c's quality?


----------



## StihlyinEly

2000ssm6 said:


> Brad, what do you think of the p&c's quality?



I was curious about this as well. So much is made of the Mahle that I wondered how the Stihl stacks up.


----------



## blsnelling

The P&C look very nice. Ports are very nice, as well as the beveling. The only minor nit pick is sand casting roughness on the sides of the exhaust port. That's all been ground away though.


----------



## blsnelling

I've always tried to be very up front and honest, giving you guys both the good and the bad. Well...my first go around at the porting was a huge disappointment. I litterally only got a 2% gain At least it didn't go backwards, lol. I've got it back apart and am making some pretty radical changes. I'll be back soon:chainsawguy:


----------



## blsnelling

Killed the thread did I, lol? 

The first time in I raised the exhaust to 102° in an effort to get a couple more degrees of blowdown. I lowered the intake to 80°. I widened the transfers towards the intake, and widened the intake and exhaust to skirt max. I also widened the strato "transfers" forward. This is what only have a gain of 2%.

So, I went back in. I was originally shooting for 100° on the exhaust, so raised that a couple more degrees. That gives me blowdown of 22°. The big change was that I leveled the transfer ports, such that they all open at 122°. I'm now up to a measely 4.5% improvement. 

Somewhere in this saw is a bottle neck. I removed the filter, and that made no change at all. I'm thinking it's those tiny transfer ducts, or the carb itself.

I do have one more idea to try.

BTW, I'm still running the original 7-pin rim. This saw has pleny of grunt to pull an 8-pin, but I'm trying to keep it a level playing field at this point.


----------



## 2000ssm6

blsnelling said:


> Killed the thread did I, lol?
> 
> The first time in I raised the exhaust to 102° in an effort to get a couple more degrees of blowdown. I lowered the intake to 80°. I widened the transfers towards the intake, and widened the intake and exhaust to skirt max. I also widened the strato "transfers" forward. This is what only have a gain of 2%.
> 
> So, I went back in. I was originally shooting for 100° on the exhaust, so raised that a couple more degrees. That gives me blowdown of 22°. The big change was that I leveled the transfer ports, such that they all open at 122°. I'm now up to a measely 4.5% improvement.
> 
> Somewhere in this saw is a bottle neck. I removed the filter, and that made no change at all. I'm thinking it's those tiny transfer ducts, or the carb itself.
> 
> I do have one more idea to try.
> 
> BTW, I'm still running the original 7-pin rim. This saw has pleny of grunt to pull an 8-pin, but I'm trying to keep it a level playing field at this point.



No thread killer. Most don't know how to take you tearing apart a new saw. They will get used to it. 

I'm following, I'm going to put a few more tanks through mine before it gets shipped off though.:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## 2000ssm6

I don't understand the need for the split from the intake into the cylinder. I could if the carb was a 2 barrel like other strats. Have I missed something in the pictures?


----------



## 2000ssm6

blsnelling said:


> Somewhere in this saw is a bottle neck. I removed the filter, and that made no change at all. I'm thinking it's those tiny transfer ducts, *or the carb itself*.



That would suck if it needed a different carb to run right when ported. I can live with a muff mod though.


----------



## Zombiechopper

remove the partition and let all the ports get fuel?


----------



## 2000ssm6

Zombiechopper said:


> remove the partition and let all the ports get fuel?



I like this idea but that split has to serve an important purpose. Maybe that is part of an EPA feature to enable it to run cleaner?


----------



## sunfish

> Killed the thread did I, lol?



No, you just scared everybody with the *2%*, lol.


----------



## wendell

sunfish said:


> No, you just scared everybody with the *2%*, lol.



Or at least made 2K start drinking heavily. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## RTK

2000ssm6 said:


> I like this idea but that split has to serve an important purpose. Maybe that is part of an EPA feature to enable it to run cleaner?



It is for pollution control. Basically it splits air fuel mixture and air mixture to different ports for scavenging leading to a cleaner running engine. 
I still prefer the non-strato engines, but this is the wave of the future due to mandates by the EPA


----------



## 2000ssm6

wendell said:


> Or at least made 2K start drinking heavily. :hmm3grin2orange:



LOL, better save that for the weekend.


----------



## sunfish

wendell said:


> Or at least made 2K start drinking heavily. :hmm3grin2orange:



:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 2000ssm6

RTK said:


> It is for pollution control. Basically it splits air fuel mixture and air mixture to different ports for scavenging leading to a cleaner running engine.
> I still prefer the non-strato engines, but this is the wave of the future due to mandates by the EPA



So, in other words, IT MUST COME OUT?


----------



## Erick

opcorn:


----------



## dingeryote

Erick said:


> opcorn:



Yep!!


----------



## Zombiechopper

didn't mweba remove the partition on his 372x torque or should I put the bong down?


----------



## Zombiechopper

dingeryote said:


> Yep!!



get that smirk off yer face


----------



## bookerdog

Erick said:


> opcorn:



Hey erick get any bird hunting in this year yet? The chukar pop is up in oregon again. Good bird numbers. Its been great


----------



## dingeryote

Zombiechopper said:


> get that smirk off yer face



No smirk.
There's gotta be more in that saw. 

Figuring it out now will pay off later when everything is Strato.

I'm just hoping Brad didn't inadvertantly go to far somewhere and upset some sorta flow balance voodoo.

On the bright side, the thing IS getting lighter with all the grinding going on.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## StihlyinEly

dingeryote said:


> No smirk.
> There's gotta be more in that saw.
> 
> Figuring it out now will pay off later when everything is Strato.
> 
> I'm just hoping Brad didn't inadvertantly go to far somewhere and upset some sorta flow balance voodoo.
> 
> On the bright side, the thing IS getting lighter with all the grinding going on.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Don't feed the yotes. They run in packs, and once they sense blood they don't listen to reason. Well, as if they ever did. Stupid Lions fans. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Erick

bookerdog said:


> Hey erick get any bird hunting in this year yet? The chukar pop is up in oregon again. Good bird numbers. Its been great



No hunting so far this year book, heck I barely have time to get on here and make nice with you kiddies. 

Heck I'm at work now typing on the phone.


----------



## 2000ssm6

dingeryote said:


> On the bright side, the thing IS getting lighter with all the grinding going on.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Haha, so after that it might handle better then you and Troll would spread the love?


----------



## Anthony_Va.

Not looking good for the home team. :biggrinbounce2:


I hate to see it go out like that too. Hopefully B-dawg will get it all figured out. The split intake boggles me, though thats easy to do. Don't take much to get my mind boggled.

There must be a trick to it somewhere. I'm glad it's not up to me to figure it out. The Stihlheads will have to punt for now. Husky heads first and 10 at the 33yd line!


----------



## StihlyinEly

Anthony_Va. said:


> Not looking good for the home team. :biggrinbounce2:
> 
> 
> I hate to see it go out like that too. Hopefully B-dawg will get it all figured out. The split intake boggles me, though thats easy to do. Don't take much to get my mind boggled.
> 
> There must be a trick to it somewhere. I'm glad it's not up to me to figure it out. The Stihlheads will have to punt for now. Husky heads first and 10 at the 33yd line!



Chill, A.V. Brad just needs to swallow another smart pill. Film at 11!


----------



## wigglesworth

Doesnt the partition in the intake, actually only allow half of the carb venturi diameter to gather air/fuel mix, and the other half only air? If I had to guess, and its only a guess, there is your bottleneck....opcorn:


----------



## 8433jeff

:agree2:

That makes sense, unlike most of the chatter here yesterday. You don't have to finish tonight, Brad.


----------



## blsnelling

Well, it is what it is. The last thing I tried was pulling this little divider out of the nose of the carb. There is no divider in the carb venturi.








Unfortunately, it actually slowed the saw down. The idea was to get a little fuel into the strato ports.

NOW........................before all the Husky heads go and claim victory, we're still waiting on the stock and muffler modded 346 times. I think this 261 will beat it there. And I think that's what most actually care about. I'm hoping the 346 shows up tomorrow.

In the mean time, here's the best times with the ported 261. It's no slouch.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/28mfeVlj_og?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/28mfeVlj_og?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Tzed250

.

About 6 flat for the first(best) cut. Not too shabby...


.


----------



## wigglesworth

So after the saw was ported, it only gained 4.5%????


----------



## RTK

wigglesworth said:


> Doesnt the partition in the intake, actually only allow half of the carb venturi diameter to gather air/fuel mix, and the other half only air? If I had to guess, and its only a guess, there is your bottleneck....opcorn:



Basically yes, but not a 100% separation as brad has mentioned. A different manufacturer draws their air from a different location that has no possibility of fuel being in it. I think Stihls idea is actually better and simpler (KISS) less parts to fail/break, but I have been known to be wrong.............


----------



## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> So after the saw was ported, it only gained 4.5%????



That's right. And it lost some of that with the divider removed from the nose of the carb. Basically, it's turning no more RPMs than when stock. It has simply gained more torque, but most of that came from the muffler mod.

My biggest concerns are with the transfer ducts. They are *tiny*! I don't have the tools to open them up. I'm really not interested in going there anyway.


----------



## wigglesworth

How many tanks are thru this saw thus far?


----------



## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> How many tanks are thru this saw thus far?



2 now.


----------



## bookerdog

wigglesworth said:


> So after the saw was ported, it only gained 4.5%????



4.5 from stock or 4,5 on top of the muff mod


----------



## Zombiechopper

finger ports?


----------



## blsnelling

bookerdog said:


> 4.5 from stock or 4,5 on top of the muff mod



4.5% over the muffler mod. I'm at about 17% over stock.


----------



## Zombiechopper

what kind of compression do you have now with no base gasket and raised roof?


----------



## blsnelling

Zombiechopper said:


> finger ports?



That's a possibility, and crossed my mind, but I'm not intested in going there. I'm only interested in what traditional woods porting will do for it.


----------



## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> 2 now.



So basicly the saw isnt even broken in yet?


----------



## blsnelling

Zombiechopper said:


> what kind of compression do you have now with no base gasket and raised roof?



BRB, headed to the garage


----------



## bookerdog

blsnelling said:


> 4.5% over the muffler mod. I'm at about 17% over stock.



thats good though for the first run through with that saw. 17% I think the first time I did a 576 we only got 22 percent.


----------



## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> So basicly the saw isnt even broken in yet?



And neither are many of the saws I port. That is not the problem here.


----------



## Tzed250

.


With The EPA and the EU cracking down, the engineers have to get their pencils sharp. In the future it will be harder to find the power that was left on the shop floor (CAD station) than it has been in the past. The real deal will be to compare the 261 against the 346's strat replacement. That will be apples to apples.


.


----------



## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> And neither are many of the saws I port. That is not the problem here.



One cant argue the fact that a saw will gain a bunch during the break in process, no? 

I have personally seen a 20psi gain in compression from new to "broke in".


----------



## blsnelling

Compression is now at 185 PSI. Thank you Stihl for that nice huge squish and smallish combustion chamber I checked it twice on my Snap On guage. 182 and 185.


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> I've always tried to be very up front and honest, giving you guys both the good and the bad. Well...my first go around at the porting was a huge disappointment. I litterally only got a 2% gain At least it didn't go backwards, lol. I've got it back apart and am making some pretty radical changes. I'll be back soon:chainsawguy:



OOOOOOOOO OUCH, that's gona leave a mark!!




ON 2K's ego.


----------



## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> One cant argue the fact that a saw will gain a bunch during the break in process, no?
> 
> I have personally seen a 20psi gain in compression from new to "broke in".



Honestly, I've never experienced anything like that. Reguardless, the saw was equally broken in before the porting as it was afterwards. The porting did not wake it up, period. I can take a brand new 346XP out of the box, run it for a few seconds to make sure it starts, runs, and oils OK. I shut it off and tear it apart. When it goes back together it's turning 15,000+ RPMs, no breakin at all. And those RPMs are all across the powerband.


----------



## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> Honestly, I've never experienced anything like that. Reguardless, the saw was equally broken in before the porting as it was afterwards. The porting did not wake it up, period. I can take a brand new 346XP out of the box, run it for a few seconds to make sure it starts, runs, and oils OK. I shut it off and tear it apart. When it goes back together it's turning 15,000+ RPMs, no breakin at all. And those RPMs are all across the powerband.



Im up 15lbs on a new Meteor piston in my 044 from where it was when I first installed it. Was at 170psi, now at 185psi. The machining marks are just now becoming harder to see on the ring surface. They will gain comp as they break in. I have experienced it on several occasions. 

However, I agree with you on the RPM's. They are what they are, but what matters is what they turn in the wood. Seems the 261 holds them good in the wood. This saw just made a spot on my short list.


----------



## blsnelling

Don't get me wrong Jeremy, it's a strong, great running saw. I'm sure it would pull a 20" B&C just fine. But it plain and simply did not respond to the port work. That has nothing to do with break-in. No one's more disappointed than me. Where as many are more interested in the stock or MM comparison, I'm most interested in how they run ported.


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> Well, it is what it is. The last thing I tried was pulling this little divider out of the nose of the carb. There is no divider in the carb venturi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, it actually slowed the saw down. The idea was to get a little fuel into the strato ports.
> 
> NOW........................before all the Husky heads go and claim victory, we're still waiting on the stock and muffler modded 346 times. I think this 261 will beat it there. And I think that's what most actually care about. I'm hoping the 346 shows up tomorrow.
> 
> In the mean time, here's the best times with the ported 261. It's no slouch



Man Brad I was hoping for some real gains without the divider, ho well like you said she is what she is.

I do agree the 261 does seem to have more torque than the 346, but than again I thought the 261 would gain more when ported.


----------



## brncreeper

Looks like a ported 346 is Stihl the king, the sickle heads are running for cover.oke:


----------



## dingeryote

brncreeper said:


> Looks like a ported 346 is Stihl the king, the sickle heads are running for cover.oke:



Hold on though.
Brad went for a working woods port, without going nuts using dental grinders and finger ports, and a host of other things that likely would add some torque and possibly allow an 8 pin.

He also is probably racking his brain thinking things over a bit further, and might just have a further inspiration.
First attempts are usually not as well understood as later attempts.

There HAS to be more in that thing.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## peter399

So, to sum up:

- the 346 has a slight weight advantage, not by much and no surprise. 
- the 261 has heavily improved the a/v and filtration which was also expected since they managed it for the 441 and 362.
- it would surprise me if the 261 does not have a little power advantage stock, should be easily done with some tweaking before releasing the saw.
Anything else would be stupid from Stihl when they have the 346 available 
as benchmark. Just as small advantage as the 346 has on the weight 
to even it all out. 
- that the non strato 346 will come out on top ported is also no surprise.
- Despite the lack of comparisons in the woods, the 346 _should_ handle better. I was tossing both saws around at my local dealer and if you look at both side by side, the 346 has a much more slim saw body. 
- The 261 has the inboard clutch, good for chain and rim swapping.
Everyone to decide what they value the most, limbing performance or easy 
change of rims/chain/bar.

It seems like picking out the best of the two is almost impossible. 
346 for the modders and the 261 for the environmentalists? For everyone
else it's a draw.


----------



## MCW

wendell said:


> Nice to see the Germans are getting a sense of humor! :hmm3grin2orange:



If I'm not mistaken one of the MS261 pictures at the start said "Made in the USA"?


I'm keen to see if one of these things and their new fancy filter will keep dead Redgum dust at bay 

I doubt it...

Brad? Brad? Availablity please


----------



## SawTroll

MCW said:


> If I'm not mistaken one of the MS261 pictures at the start said "Made in the USA"?
> 
> .....




It still is a German design, and show every sign of that.... 

Also, I guess that a lot of the parts come from Germany prior to assambly in the US, as with many other smaller models - nothing wrong with that.


----------



## 2000ssm6

Brad, you going to try a 8 pin? 6 seconds through that cant is impressive, even though it didn't respond well to porting. Again, looking forward to getting mine.


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> It still is a German design, and show every sign of that....
> 
> Also, I guess that a lot of the parts come from Germany prior to assambly in the US, as with many other smaller models - nothing wrong with that.



I would think it is made in the VA plant. Hope so anyway.


----------



## MCW

SawTroll said:


> It still is a German design, and show every sign of that....
> 
> Also, I guess that a lot of the parts come from Germany prior to assambly in the US, as with many other smaller models - nothing wrong with that.



Yeah. The 070 and 066 that I'm importing from China are also of German Stihl design 

It has been mentioned a few times in this very long thread that the MS261 is a "German Made" saw. That's not the case at all judging by the saw label at the start of this thread but does not detract from the saw at all - I WANT ONE!!!


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> I would think it is made in the VA plant. Hope so anyway.



The US sold ones sure are, to a degree, and the Oz sold ones will probably be as well, if they follow earlier practise. The rest of the world will probably get saws made in Germany, again if they follow earlier practise.

This doesn't really matter at all, as long as they use the same parts (which they didn't with all other models).

So far, I regard this as a non-issue! 

The model has been sold in Germany and other parts of Europe for quite some time now.


----------



## Adam_MA

I just wanted to take a second and say thank you to Brad for your efforts thus far! You have given us all a nice look into this saw!

Looking forward to seeing the 346 as well!

Thank you
Adam


----------



## brages

blsnelling said:


> When it goes back together it's turning 15,000+ RPMs, no breakin at all. *And those RPMs are all across the powerband.*



 I don't understand this last statement...


----------



## MCW

brages said:


> I don't understand this last statement...



Yeah true


----------



## blsnelling

brages said:


> I don't understand this last statement...



I guess I didn't word that right. The improvments aren't just in WOT RPMS, but the increase in *power *is all across the powerband.


----------



## blsnelling

MCW said:


> I'm keen to see if one of these things and their new fancy filter will keep dead Redgum dust at bay
> 
> I doubt it...
> 
> Brad? Brad? Availablity please



Matt, I think you'll find this filter as good or better than the 7900 GD filter. That Willow I took down was dead, dry, and punky. Did you see the dust flying with the 440 and 066? Not a spec of dust got past this filter.


----------



## Tzed250

peter399 said:


> So, to sum up:
> 
> - the 346 has a slight weight advantage, not by much and no surprise.
> - the 261 has heavily improved the a/v and filtration which was also expected since they managed it for the 441 and 362.
> - it would surprise me if the 261 does not have a little power advantage stock, should be easily done with some tweaking before releasing the saw.
> Anything else would be stupid from Stihl when they have the 346 available
> as benchmark. Just as small advantage as the 346 has on the weight
> to even it all out.
> - that the non strato 346 will come out on top ported is also no surprise.
> - Despite the lack of comparisons in the woods, the 346 _should_ handle better. I was tossing both saws around at my local dealer and if you look at both side by side, the 346 has a much more slim saw body.
> - The 261 has the inboard clutch, good for chain and rim swapping.
> Everyone to decide what they value the most, limbing performance or easy
> change of rims/chain/bar.
> 
> It seems like picking out the best of the two is almost impossible.
> 346 for the modders and the 261 for the environmentalists? For everyone
> else it's a draw.



Where is Peter.....and what have you done with him???...


.


----------



## brages

blsnelling said:


> I guess I didn't word that right. The improvments aren't just in WOT RPMS, but the increase in *power *is all across the powerband.



Gotcha... probably sleep deprivation from all that late-night cookie-cutting and porting... 

I'm really enjoying this thread. Great photos and info.


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> I guess I didn't word that right. The improvments aren't just in WOT RPMS, but the increase in *power *is all across the powerband.



That makes a lot more sense!


----------



## porsche965

What was the size of the exhaust port you added on the 261? 
I've looked back but can't seem to find where you mentioned it. Thanks!


----------



## CentaurG2

Oh the drama. Is this going to be the death knell for the ms261?? Stihl like to know what the msrp is going to be on that saw.


----------



## blsnelling

CentaurG2 said:


> Oh the drama. Is this going to be the death knell for the ms261?? Stihl like to know what the msrp is going to be on that saw.



No way!!! This is a super strong saw, right out of the box. Just because it hasn't responded to porting, doesn't make it not a great saw. More are interested in it stock and muffler modded anyway. That where this saw shines.


----------



## Trigger-Time

blsnelling said:


> No way!!! This is a super strong saw, right out of the box. Just because it hasn't responded to porting, doesn't make it not a great saw. More are interested in it stock and muffler modded anyway. That where this saw shines.



:agree2:


I would say way less than 1% of saws are ever ported.

Like me I have well over 20 running saws and not one has been ported or BB'ed.




TT


----------



## blsnelling

Of course I'm disappointed with the ported results. But I can't find fault with the saw. I can guarantee you that Stihl isn't building saws so that they will port well. This saw was built to be sold and run as is. It's an awesome saw right out of the box, 22% faster than the 026. And I suspect faster than a 346 NIB. We'll soon find out.

What does this mean to someone like me, a power junkie? It simply means my 346 is going no where. Honestly, I like the 261 better, but I just can't give up the ported power If I ran stock or MMd saws only, the 346 would be sold.


----------



## bookerdog

blsnelling said:


> Of course I'm disappointed with the ported results. But I can't find fault with the saw. I can guarantee you that Stihl isn't building saws so that they will port well. This saw was built to be sold and run as is. It's an awesome saw right out of the box, 22% faster than the 026. And I suspect faster than a 346 NIB. We'll soon find out.
> 
> What does this mean to someone like me, a power junkie? It simply means my 346 is going no where. Honestly, I like the 261 better, but I just can't give up the ported power If I ran stock or MMd saws only, the 346 would be sold.



The dang power is just addictive.


----------



## blsnelling

I did find another 1000 RPMs in the saw, but I had to resort to measures I don't normally take. I advanced the ignition timing about 10*, by removing 1/2 the width of the key. I'm disappointed to see that the key is molded into the flywheel. Anyway, the saw will now turn 15,000 RPMs.

On another note, I'm very frustrated with this wood. This Oak is super inconsistent and I'm having a very hard time even duplicating results. From one cut to the next can be a significant difference in cut times. There are just too many knots in it. Today I can't even duplicate the cut times from last night.

With that in mind, here is a vid from today with the timing advanced, then a 8-pin rim installed, and then the timing retarded back to stock, leaving the 8-pin rim installed.


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GVfzmqtL7t8?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GVfzmqtL7t8?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Tzed250

blsnelling said:


> I was expecting $549, if not slightly more. I got the saw for $519 with a free 2nd chain. So that's actually about $495. I asked what list was, thinking they had discounted it, and they said that was list. I'm gald to see they didn't jack the price way up.





CentaurG2 said:


> Oh the drama. Is this going to be the death knell for the ms261?? Stihl like to know what the msrp is going to be on that saw.



Here you go.


I was going to post a link to hooked-on-phonics, but I thought that might be a little over the top.


----------



## RTK

blsnelling said:


> I did find another 1000 RPMs in the saw, but I had to resort to measures I don't normally take. I advanced the ignition timing about 10*, by removing 1/2 the width of the key. I'm disappointed to see that the key is molded into the flywheel. Anyway, the saw will now turn 15,000 RPMs.
> 
> On another note, I'm very frustrated with this wood. This Oak is super inconsistent and I'm having a very hard time even duplicating results. From one cut to the next can be a significant difference in cut times. There are just too many knots in it. Today I can't even duplicate the cut times from last night.
> 
> With that in mind, here is a vid from today with the timing advanced, then a 8-pin rim installed, and then the timing retarded back to stock, leaving the 8-pin rim installed.
> 
> >



With the 10* advancement where did you end up on timing??
In other NON saw 2 cycle applications going much past 28-30*s you just end up with more heat and more chance of detonation


----------



## blsnelling

RTK said:


> With the 10* advancement where did you end up on timing??
> In other NON saw 2 cycle applications going much past 28-30*s you just end up with more heat and more chance of detonation



I have no idea where the timing actually is. In the past, I've tuned the ignition timing by determining where it made the most RPMs. That's where it seemd to cut the best. If the engine speeds up, then I know it liked the timing. If it slows down, I know I went too far and it's fighting itself. I tuned the carb accordingly after the ignition change. I've had no problems with heat or detonation the few times I've done this.


----------



## striperswaper

does anyone know if Stihl Germany follows this site?
it would very interesting to read their comments about this thread


----------



## blsnelling

striperswaper said:


> does anyone know if Stihl Germany follows this site?
> it would very interesting to read their comments about this thread



They'd probably laugh at us! Some Joe buys a brand new saw, tears it apart, voids his warranty, and thinks he can make it faster than they can:greenchainsaw:


----------



## porsche965

Voiding warranties isn't a big deal. Making a saw more like it can be minus the EPA is a big deal, least to me.


----------



## CentaurG2

Tzed250 said:


> Here you go.
> 
> 
> I was going to post a link to hooked-on-phonics, but I thought that might be a little over the top.



That is stilh not the real MSRP on an ms261 from a real stihl dealer. Hooked on phonics is good but books on tape are better. They do have some great books poetry. Send not to know for whom the bell tolls… etc. You seem smart enough to figure out the rest. I do thank you for your efforts and I am stihl waiting on an answer to my glove query.


----------



## SawTroll

One piece of info that I haven't seen here yet is what chain is on the saw?


----------



## StihlyinEly

blsnelling said:


> They'd probably laugh at us! Some Joe buys a brand new saw, tears it apart, voids his warranty, *and thinks he can make it faster than they can*:greenchainsaw:



And you did, by nearly 20 percent. Just not using the methods that have done well before. Nice to see the MM can deliver that increase in performance.


----------



## bcorradi

CentaurG2 said:


> That is stilh not the real MSRP on an ms261 from a real stihl dealer. Hooked on phonics is good but books on tape are better. They do have some great books poetry. Send not to know for whom the bell tolls… etc. You seem smart enough to figure out the rest. I do thank you for your efforts and I am stihl waiting on an answer to my glove query.


Go to the StihlUSA site and you'll find the information your looking for.


----------



## SawTroll

bcorradi said:


> Go to the StihlUSA site and you'll find the information your looking for.




Good point, my impression is that a lot of people don't care to look at the brands website - they may assume it is easier to ask here....:bang::bang:


----------



## MCW

blsnelling said:


> Matt, I think you'll find this filter as good or better than the 7900 GD filter. That Willow I took down was dead, dry, and punky. Did you see the dust flying with the 440 and 066? Not a spec of dust got past this filter.



We'll have to see Brad if it holds up as well against the Dolmar HD filter 
I can't see how it will be better but even if it's just as good then that is GOOD 
If it's better then I'd like to say "I'll eat my hat" but all I have left are polyester ones and they're hard to chew..


----------



## blsnelling

SawTroll said:


> One piece of info that I haven't seen here yet is what chain is on the saw?



.325 .063 Stihl RSC.


----------



## MCW

blsnelling said:


> .325 .063 Stihl RSC.



Sorry if I missed it but is it a rim sprocket?


----------



## blsnelling

MCW said:


> Sorry if I missed it but is it a rim sprocket?



Yes, that's what it came with.


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> .325 .063 Stihl RSC.



No surprice there then, thanks!


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

blsnelling said:


> .325 .063 Stihl RSC.



Is it 67 links on the 16" bar? like the 260.


----------



## CentaurG2

bcorradi said:


> Go to the StihlUSA site and you'll find the information your looking for.



You must be a stihl dealer that is stupid enough to actually think that I did not already try that option. All I get is pricing on the POS 260 for $519-529 and the aforementioned 261QC version at $649-669. So once again genius, what is the MSRP price on an ms261 with no stihl BS??


----------



## bcorradi

No I'm not a dealer. 

I just went there before I sent my last message and it worked fine for me. Its not overly complicated. If you'd like step and step instructions please let me know and I can provide those.

I'll start you off...go HERE and follow the directions.


----------



## CentaurG2

bcorradi said:


> No I'm not a dealer.
> 
> I just went there before I sent my last message and it worked fine for me. Its not overly complicated. If you'd like step and step instructions please let me know and I can provide those.
> 
> I'll start you off...go HERE and follow the directions.



Fair enough and step by step instructions are not needed as they might not work in all areas. All I asked was what is the MSRP price of the standard ms261. So what is the msrp price dude??


----------



## blsnelling

Brad, it's not showing up here yet either.


----------



## bigredd

CentaurG2 said:


> Fair enough and step by step instructions are not needed as they might not work in all areas. All I asked was what is the MSRP price of the standard ms261. So what is the msrp price dude??



That just dumps you to local dealers for pricing and none around here have the 261 on their site. It would be hard to justify $600 OTD for a $50cc saw.


----------



## bcorradi

CentaurG2 said:


> Fair enough and step by step instructions are not needed as they might not work in all areas. All I asked was what is the MSRP price of the standard ms261. So what is the msrp price dude??


Appears to be $549.95 in my area.


----------



## bcorradi

Type in zipcode 58102 (with the check products and reserve online checked) then hit the "Find Dealer" button. After it directs you to the next page click on "$" arrow button under Acme Tools and you should see the prices.


----------



## CentaurG2

bcorradi said:


> Appears to be $549.95 in my area.



So is that the actual MSRP price out of an honest to goodness stihl dealer or is you just guessin’??


----------



## bcorradi

That is Midwest Stihl's distributor's MSRP. I have no idea if other stihl distributions have different prices.


----------



## Trigger-Time

My dealer just looked less than 30 min ago at his Stihl dealer on-line account.
He knows the 261's are coming in the future but when he tried to look up
the 261 it's like their is no such thing. His Rep. should be here Friday
and the plain is to try to get one released by my 50th birthday.
But am not holding my breath.




TT


----------



## Trigger-Time

woodsman44 said:


> Is it 67 links on the 16" bar? like the 260.




Am 99.9% sure it would, I do not think Stihl would mess with that at all.

Stihl has 3 diff bar mounts

one for the smaller saws 180 up to like 250

one for 260 up to 660

one for the big saw 880 and the older 075/076, 090 and a few others.

In each bar mount such as the 3003 mount for 260-660 the bars
and chains will interchange. So a bar and chain that fits 260 will fit any
saw up to 660. Only thing that may change the link count is drum and bar
tip sprocket.


TT


----------



## SawTroll

Trigger-Time said:


> My dealer just looked less than 30 min ago at his Stihl dealer on-line account.
> He knows the 261's are coming in the future but when he tried to look up
> the 261 it's like their is no such thing. His Rep. should be here Friday
> and the plain is to try to get one released by my 50th birthday.
> But am not holding my breath.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TT




How about a gift card, in case it doesn't turn up soon enough in your area?


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

Trigger-Time said:


> Am 99.9% sure it would, I do not think Stihl would mess with that at all.
> 
> Stihl has 3 diff bar mounts
> 
> one for the smaller saws 180 up to like 250
> 
> one for 260 up to 660
> 
> one for the big saw 880 and the older 075/076, 090 and a few others.
> 
> In each bar mount such as the 3003 mount for 260-660 the bars
> and chains will interchange. So a bar and chain that fits 260 will fit any
> saw up to 660. Only thing that may change the link count is drum and bar
> tip sprocket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TT



T T, thanks, I have alot of chains for the 260pro and was just wondering if I could switch em out on the 261 when I get one, so I dont have to buy different chains for the big bore 261....


----------



## blsnelling

woodsman44 said:


> T T, thanks, I have alot of chains for the 260pro and was just wondering if I could switch em out on the 261 when I get one, so I dont have to buy different chains for the big bore 261....



3003 bar mount and 67DL for a 16" .325.


----------



## blsnelling

If this doesn't excite the CAD in you, then I don't know what will! Any time a 50cc saw can pull a 20" B&C nearly buried in hardwood...!!! It is wearing the 7-pin rim again. It has no trouble at all with this setup.


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HxMPgN_2Mvs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HxMPgN_2Mvs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


It balances perfectly with a laminated .325 B&C.


----------



## StihlyinEly

blsnelling said:


> If this doesn't excite the CAD in you, then I don't know what will! Any time a 50cc saw can pull a 20" B&C nearly buried in hardwood...!!! It is wearing the 7-pin rim again. It has no trouble at all with this setup.
> 
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HxMPgN_2Mvs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HxMPgN_2Mvs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
> 
> 
> It balances perfectly with a laminated .325 B&C.



OK, I'm sold. You are holding what's probably the perfect firewood saw setup. Drool has officially dripped onto my keyboard.


----------



## blsnelling

StihlyinEly said:


> You are holding what's probably the perfect firewood saw setup.



That's what I'm thinking. Extra reach with the 20" for limbing, and plenty of power for bucking and felling. The more I run this saw, the more I like it. BTW, I checked compression again this morning on a completely cooled saw and it was an amazing 195 PSI!


----------



## 2000ssm6

That should shut the skeptics and haters up, LOL.:rockn: Do you have a 361 or 360 to run against that 261?


----------



## blsnelling

2000ssm6 said:


> That should shut the skeptics and haters up, LOL.:rockn: Do you have a 361 or 360 to run against that 261?



I do not. With 50cc saws like this, there's no place in my lineup for 60cc saws


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> ......
> It balances perfectly with a laminated .325 B&C.



Yes it does, judging by the picture - as do a lot of other 50cc saws. 
Usually it also is faster than 3/8" set-ups, at least on stock saws. 

Great thread from your side, btw!


----------



## blsnelling

SawTroll said:


> Yes it does, judging by the picture - as do a lot of other 50cc saws.
> 
> Usually it also is faster than 3/8" set-ups, at least on stock saws.
> 
> Great thread from your side, btw!



A new 20" B&C just arrived this evening for my 346 as well. As you hinted, it also balances perfectly.


----------



## Tzed250

CentaurG2 said:


> That is stilh not the real MSRP on an ms261 from a real stihl dealer. Hooked on phonics is good but books on tape are better. T*hey do have some great books poetry*. Send not to know for whom the bell tolls… etc. You seem smart enough to figure out the rest. I do thank you for your efforts and I am stihl waiting on an answer to my glove query.



I eagerly await your announcement that you will be teaching English 098 in the near future as you are obviously the man!!!


.


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

blsnelling said:


> 3003 bar mount and 67DL for a 16" .325.



Very cool, thanks Brad!!!!


----------



## StihlyinEly

blsnelling said:


> That's what I'm thinking. Extra reach with the 20" for limbing, and plenty of power for bucking and felling. The more I run this saw, the more I like it. BTW, I checked compression again this morning on a completely cooled saw and it was an amazing 195 PSI!



One of the things that impresses me most is that almost all the power gains came from the simple muff mod, which most anyone who is not all thumbs can do in not a lot of time.

I'd have no trouble at all selling my 026 and 034AVS to fund the purchase of the 261 with a 20-inch B&C. It easily will replace them both. Not that I'm eager to sell ANY saws these days, but a guy's gotta do what he's gotta do. 

Sounds like a New Year's resolution to me. Maybe some of that Christmas money will find its way into my Stihl dealer's hands.


----------



## HARRY BARKER

why not try some hardwood thats not dry rotted?


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

blsnelling said:


> If this doesn't excite the CAD in you, then I don't know what will! Any time a 50cc saw can pull a 20" B&C nearly buried in hardwood...!!! It is wearing the 7-pin rim again. It has no trouble at all with this setup.
> 
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HxMPgN_2Mvs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HxMPgN_2Mvs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
> 
> Sweet!!!!, thats what Im talking about...
> 
> 
> It balances perfectly with a laminated .325 B&C.


Sweet!!!!, thats what Im talking about...BIG BORE 261 throwing chips......ONE SAW TO RULE THEM ALL...my precious


----------



## RTK

blsnelling said:


> That's what I'm thinking. Extra reach with the 20" for limbing, and plenty of power for bucking and felling. The more I run this saw, the more I like it. BTW, I checked compression again this morning on a completely cooled saw and it was an amazing 195 PSI!



Is that with the gasket removed or not??


----------



## StihlyinEly

woodsman44 said:


> ONE SAW TO RULE THEM ALL...my precious



Uh-oh. Someone's been eating a little too much lembas and sipping too much miruvor.   

But you have to use the whole incantation. 

_*One Saw to rule them all,
One Saw to find them,
One Saw to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them to Stihl!*_ :rockn:


----------



## FATGUY

2000ssm6 said:


> That should shut the skeptics and haters up, LOL.:rockn: Do you have a *361* or 360 to run against that 261?



pick me! pick me! I do! I do!


----------



## FATGUY

HARRY BARKER said:


> why not try some hardwood thats not dry rotted?



:notrolls2::notrolls2::notrolls2:


----------



## Trigger-Time

Is their a pic or vid I can't see, I see the one of Brad holding the saw
by couple fingers, looks to be 2nd pic. It's the first one I can't see 



TT


----------



## Anthony_Va.

HARRY BARKER said:


> why not try some hardwood thats not dry rotted?



:monkey::stupid:

How bout a big tall glass of $TFU! 

I'm officially sold on that saw now. I have to sell my 260 first but that should be easy enough. 

If that was'nt hardwood, you must live down under too, HB.


----------



## tjbier

Dang that saw is fast!
Sounds great too, I know my 026 can't pull a 20" b&c like that!
Thanks for the great read Brad!

Did I see Santa mowing his lawn next door?


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> A new 20" B&C just arrived this evening for my 346 as well. As you hinted, it also balances perfectly.



I hope it is a laminated "original" Husky one (made in Norway), and not a rebranded Oregon Pro-Lite one - it makes quite a difference regarding bar weight, even if the Oregon one also is laminated!

Actually, I tend to doubt it is, with a 20" bar.....


The difference is easy to see, on the bar nose and the looks of the info on the bar. There are other clues, like type of paint, but they are harder to describe.

As the 346xp is lighter, it won't balance the same bar & chain weight.

Also, Rollomatic E is a very nice and light bar, because of the cutouts in the mid laminate! I simply love that bar model, and whish there was a way to fit them to the small mount Huskys!


----------



## jeepyfz450

tjbier said:


> Dang that saw is fast!
> Sounds great too, I know my 026 can't pull a 20" b&c like that!
> Thanks for the great read Brad!
> 
> Did I see Santa mowing his lawn next door?



lol i was thinking the same thing...... i thought brad lived in Ohio not in the North Pole. I bet if i lived next to santa i would have a new saw too lol


----------



## CentaurG2

Tzed250 said:


> I eagerly await your announcement that you will be teaching English 098 in the near future as you are obviously the man!!!
> 
> 
> .



Best you can come up with is a missing verb?? Oh come on. For 5000+ posts, I expected a little more from the proverbial “tin woodsman” No heart or brain or both, I forget. Doesn’t really matter, you got an MSRP on the 261 or not tin boy?? Also, I am stihl eagerly awaiting some info on them gloves. I just gots to know about them.


----------



## 2000ssm6

Trigger-Time said:


> Is their a pic or vid I can't see, I see the one of Brad holding the saw
> by couple fingers, looks to be 2nd pic. It's the first one I can't see
> 
> 
> 
> TT



Yup, there is a vid above the pic. He is running the 20" b&c.


----------



## 2000ssm6

CentaurG2 said:


> Best you can come up with is a missing verb?? Oh come on. For 5000+ posts, I expected a little more from the proverbial “tin woodsman” No heart or brain or both, I forget. Doesn’t really matter, you got an MSRP on the 261 or not tin boy?? Also, I am stihl eagerly awaiting some info on them gloves. I just gots to know about them.



Cent, $529 looks to be the number. Give or take $10-20. How are them cigars???


----------



## jeepyfz450

looks like it cuts pretty well. I had a 20''B/C on my old 026 when i got it and it was way to much bar. I think if you have the power to pull it would be a nice limbing/firewood saw. I always liked my 036 with a 20'' bc for a all around firewood saw but im sure that 261 would cut with or better than my old girl.


----------



## Andyshine77

You need to run your 346 in that Oak Brad.oke: That saw sure looks/sounds strong.


----------



## blsnelling

HARRY BARKER said:


> why not try some hardwood thats not dry rotted?



Come again? You call this dry rotted? Same log.


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8wumEnPDi3Y?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8wumEnPDi3Y?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Tzed250

CentaurG2 said:


> Best you can come up with is a missing verb?? Oh come on. For 5000+ posts, I expected a little more from the proverbial “tin woodsman” No heart or brain or both, I forget. Doesn’t really matter, you got an MSRP on the 261 or not tin boy?? Also, I am stihl eagerly awaiting some info on them gloves. I just gots to know about them.




A genius like you should be able to come up with an MSRP easily. Surprising to find you so completely incapacitated. 

The gloves are MSR off-road racing gloves. If you don't know who the MS is then the most power you have ever had between your legs came from the adult toy store. 

As for the "verb"(the term you are actually looking for is preposition ), since you were the author it should be easier for you to include it than for me to find it's absence. 

Good day sir. 


.


----------



## blsnelling

tjbier said:


> Did I see Santa mowing his lawn next door?



I was waiting on that comment, lol


----------



## blsnelling

Come on guys. At least try to keep this thread some what on topic.


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> Come on guys. At least try to keep this thread some what on topic.



Good point - around 50cc, or about the same weight as the MS261 should be the limit!


----------



## CentaurG2

Tzed250 said:


> A genius like you should be able to come up with an MSRP easily. Surprising to find you so completely incapacitated.
> 
> The gloves are MSR off-road racing gloves. If you don't know who the MS is then the most power you have ever had between your legs came from the adult toy store.
> 
> As for the "verb"(the term you are actually looking for is preposition ), since you were the author it should be easier for you to include it than for me to find it's absence.
> 
> Good day sir.
> 
> 
> .



Such venom over a few simple queries?? What gives?? This is a forum. Open exchange of ideas and such no matter who makes them, genius or not?? No matter. I can wait for a genuine MSRP on the ms261. The gloves.. well, I think they can speak for themselves. See ya on the B side little tin dude.


----------



## StihlyinEly

Tzed250 said:


> A genius like you should be able to come up with an MSRP easily. Surprising to find you so completely incapacitated.
> 
> The gloves are MSR off-road racing gloves. If you don't know who the MS is then the most power you have ever had between your legs came from the adult toy store.
> 
> As for the "verb"(the term you are actually looking for is preposition ), since you were the author it should be easier for you to include it than for me to find it's absence.
> 
> Good day sir.



Wow. Is it ego or is it booze? Or . . . . who gives a #### one way or another whether a person is a prescriptive or a transformational grammarian/linguist? 

Onward! Skol MS261!


----------



## Tzed250

CentaurG2 said:


> Such venom over a few simple queries?? What gives?? This is a forum. Open exchange of ideas and such no matter who makes them, genius or not?? No matter. I can wait for a genuine MSRP on the ms261. The gloves.. well, I think they can speak for themselves. See ya on the B side little tin dude.



Venom's a$$. You started this little discourse with your poison tongue. You are a typical Internet shyt talker who starts a fight then cries poor pitiful me whe someone stands up to you. Now, we can be done with this, or we can keep on going. The ball is in you court.

John T. Given


.


----------



## blsnelling

Puuuulease. Let it go. We are all adults here aren't we?


----------



## StihlyinEly

blsnelling said:


> We are all adults here aren't we?



Um, sure. 

We'll see who the real adult is between these two. He'll be the one who walks away without another word. 

Meanwhile, that darn 261 is eating away at my brain! It's so much saw that I find myself regressing. Pretty soon I'll be nothing but a child in an aging man's body!


----------



## Trigger-Time

I'm ticked, I still can't see the Vids! :bang:





TT


----------



## StihlyinEly

Trigger-Time said:


> I'm ticked, I still can't see the Vids! :bang:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TT



Brad, could you take the time to post direct links to YouTube so folks like TT can get their fix?


----------



## Tzed250

Brad, did you post pics of the port work?


----------



## StihlyinEly

TT, try this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxMPgN_2Mvs&feature=player_embedded


----------



## SawTroll

Tzed250 said:


> Brad, did you post pics of the port work?



You can't seriously expect him to do that, can you?


----------



## blsnelling

Tzed250 said:


> Brad, did you post pics of the port work?



I didn't take any John. The layout pics were all I took.


----------



## blsnelling

SawTroll said:


> You can't seriously expect him to do that, can you?



I have no problem showing what I do. I've done so plenty of times before. The layout pics pretty much show everything I had planned. If someone wants to copy it, or hopefully even do better, I have no problem with that. I learned the same way.


----------



## StihlyinEly

blsnelling said:


> I have no problem showing what I do. I've done so plenty of times before. The layout pics pretty much show everything I had planned. If someone wants to copy it, or hopefully even do better, I have no problem with that. I learned the same way.



That right there would be a repable post.


----------



## Tzed250

SawTroll said:


> You can't seriously expect him to do that, can you?



I can seriously expect almost anything. Brad has openly admitted that he feels what he did was not working. Now, sometimes what doesn't work may be just as valuable as what does. Brad had the option to say I took photos, but prefer not to post them. I would have accepted that. 


.


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> I have no problem showing what I do. I've done so plenty of times before. The layout pics pretty much show everything I had planned. If someone wants to copy it, or hopefully even do better, I have no problem with that. I learned the same way.



Hmmm - "porting numbers" used to be a big secret between saw modders, but I may live in the past, in my brain......


----------



## blsnelling

Tzed250 said:


> I can seriously expect almost anything. Brad has openly admitted that he feels what he did was not working. Now, sometimes what doesn't work may be just as valuable as what does. Brad had the option to say I took photos, but prefer not to post them. I would have accepted that.
> 
> 
> .



I ported this 261 almost identically to the 441 I did that responded so well. The little Ryobi/Redmax 400 I did was a strato and turned out to be the strongest little saw I've ever ported. Why it didn't work on this 261 is beyond me. Hopefully someone will figure it out. And when they do, hopefully they're be gracious enough to share it.


----------



## blsnelling

SawTroll said:


> Hmmm - "porting numbers" used to be a big secret between saw modders, but I may live in the past, in my brain......



My openess has not always been accepted well. I figure, what's to hide? Not everyone has any desire to do this kind of stuff. If you do, and have the tools and skill, go for it. That's what makes all this fun for me.


----------



## Tzed250

blsnelling said:


> I ported this 261 almost identically to the 441 I did that responded so well. The little Ryobi/Redmax 400 I did was a strato and turned out to be the strongest little saw I've ever ported. Why it didn't work on this 261 is beyond me. Hopefully someone will figure it out. And when they do, hopefully they're be gracious enough to share it.



Don't quit. Be the first on your block to order a new MS261 top end..


.


----------



## StihlyinEly

blsnelling said:


> I ported this 261 almost identically to the 441 I did that responded so well. The little Ryobi/Redmax 400 I did was a strato and turned out to be the strongest little saw I've ever ported. Why it didn't work on this 261 is beyond me. Hopefully someone will figure it out. And when they do, hopefully they're be gracious enough to share it.



Brad, I wish you still had that 441 so you could tear both of them down and really compare. If memory serves, you ported the 441 for a customer and it went down the road.

What are the possibilities you can pick up the other pro Stihl strato saws new to go with the 261? 

Yeah, jing, jing, jing goes the credit card. 

But are you not at all lured by the opportunity of being the guy who is not a Stihl engineer but figured out how to make strato porting of all Stihl models really tick? 

C'mon now. Really.


----------



## blsnelling

Tzed250 said:


> Don't quit. Be the first on your block to order a new MS261 top end..
> 
> 
> .



I pretty much threw caution to the wind when I raised the most rearward end of the transfers 14°! It didn't buy what I hoped it would, but it did move forward, rather than backwards. The way I see it right now, one or a combination of three things is holding this saw back.


The transfer ducts are just too small to flow any more air. I don't have the tools to open them up.
The intake is too small. Nothing I can do about this.
The carb is too small. I'm not interested in replacing the carb either.


----------



## 2000ssm6

Yup, back to the drawing board. You can have the title as "the first". Even if it doesn't port well, I can always grab my 026. I don't think it will come to that though.


----------



## blsnelling

StihlyinEly said:


> Brad, I wish you still had that 441 so you could tear both of them down and really compare. If memory serves, you ported the 441 for a customer and it went down the road.



I have the port timing from that saw. That was my guide in what I did to this saw.


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> My openess has not always been accepted well. I figure, what's to hide? Not everyone has any desire to do this kind of stuff. If you do, and have the tools and skill, go for it. That's what makes all this fun for me.



You sure are a lot more "open" than any other saw modder I have seen posting on the internet - but of course it takes more than just the numbers to get the result right! :yourock:


----------



## wigglesworth

blsnelling said:


> BTW, I checked compression again this morning on a completely cooled saw and it was an amazing 195 PSI!



told ya so.....



SawTroll said:


> Yes it does, judging by the picture - as do a lot of other 50cc saws.
> Usually it also is faster than 3/8" set-ups, at least on stock saws.
> 
> Great thread from your side, btw!



Id like to see it with a 3/8" setup.


----------



## Tzed250

blsnelling said:


> I pretty much threw caution to the wind when I raised the most rearward end of the transfers 14°! It didn't buy what I hoped it would, but it did move forward, rather than backwards. The way I see it right now, one or a combination of three things is holding this saw back.
> 
> 
> The transfer ducts are just too small to flow any more air. I don't have the tools to open them up.
> The intake is too small. Nothing I can do about this.
> The carb is too small. I'm not interested in replacing the carb either.



It goes back to what I said about there being less left on the shop floor. The clean air standards have forced the OEMs to milk every cc. In the 70s when the Japanese brought out the big inline four motorcycles tuners quickly found 80-100% increases from the 80 or so horsepower. With todays litrebikes making 160-180hp, gains of 15-20% are huge. The 261 really needs to be judged against other strat saws. When the market settles down in a couple of years we will know.


.


----------



## SawTroll

wigglesworth said:


> .....
> 
> Id like to see it with a 3/8" setup.



Sure, but I highly doubt it would be an improvement!


----------



## blsnelling

wigglesworth said:


> told ya so.....



:rockn:


----------



## 2000ssm6

wigglesworth said:


> Id like to see it with a 3/8" setup.



Yup, mine will wear a 3/8. Not sure if it will be a 16" or 20" now.:rockn:


----------



## StihlyinEly

SawTroll said:


> Sure, but I highly doubt it would be an improvement!



Well, stay tuned. 

AS: Where real people run real saws before they comment on said saws' capabilities. :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> Yup, mine will wear a 3/8. Not sure if it will be a 16" or 20" now.:rockn:



Well, that is your problem! :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> I ported this 261 almost identically to the 441 I did that responded so well. The little Ryobi/Redmax 400 I did was a strato and turned out to be the strongest little saw I've ever ported. Why it didn't work on this 261 is beyond me. Hopefully someone will figure it out. And when they do, hopefully they're be gracious enough to share it.





blsnelling said:


> My openess has not always been accepted well. I figure, what's to hide? Not everyone has any desire to do this kind of stuff. If you do, and have the tools and skill, go for it. That's what makes all this fun for me.



Awesome Brad, I feel the same way, and have also shared anything I've ever known about saws, I learned the same way you did.

If there is anymore left in that saw Brad, its just got to be a bottleneck somewhere. 

Or you can look at it this way, that saw looks to be performing very nicely, and what more can you ask for from a 50cc saw? 

Anyone ever tried a tuned pipe on a strato saw? Come on Brad you know you want to be the first!!


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> Well, that is your problem! :biggrinbounce2:



The .325 is a problem for me, no bars or chains. Real men run 3/8.


----------



## blsnelling

parrisw said:


> Awesome Brad, I feel the same way, and have also shared anything I've ever known about saws, I learned the same way you did.
> 
> If there is anymore left in that saw Brad, its just got to be a bottleneck somewhere.
> 
> Or you can look at it this way, that saw looks to be performing very nicely, and what more can you ask for from a 50cc saw?
> 
> Anyone ever tried a tuned pipe on a strato saw? Come on Brad you know you want to be the first!!



I hear ya man, but there are limits to the lengths I'll go to to make it run. Part of those limits are dictated by my lack of metal working equipment and experience. I don't have the tools or skills to make a pipe. No doubt it would work well. Like you said, the saw runs awesome as is. It is what it is.


----------



## blsnelling

2000ssm6 said:


> The .325 is a problem for me, no bars or chains. Real men run 3/8.



Real men are content to run what works best, rather than trying to compensate with bigger "chains", lol:greenchainsaw:


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> Real men are content to run what works best, rather than trying to compensate with bigger "chains", lol:greenchainsaw:



ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. 

2K suffers from what I call Peanut syndrome.

He's just a little guy trying to act tough. 

His new nickname is peanut.


----------



## 8433jeff

2000ssm6 said:


> The .325 is a problem for me, no bars or chains. Real men run 3/8.



As do their children and grandkids.


----------



## blsnelling

Easy now. We don't need another chest thumping competition, lol.


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> Real men are content to run what works best, rather than trying to compensate with bigger "chains", lol:greenchainsaw:



Exactly, 3/8" chain on a 50cc saw never was a great idea - regardless if they "will pull" it, of course they will! :agree2:


----------



## dingeryote

parrisw said:


> Awesome Brad, I feel the same way, and have also shared anything I've ever known about saws, I learned the same way you did.
> 
> If there is anymore left in that saw Brad, its just got to be a bottleneck somewhere.
> 
> Or you can look at it this way, that saw looks to be performing very nicely, and what more can you ask for from a 50cc saw?
> 
> Anyone ever tried a tuned pipe on a strato saw? Come on Brad you know you want to be the first!!




:agree2:

There's more in there. Has to be.

The 441 dropped in scale theory would work, if everything on the 261 was to scale and obviously something isn't.

Less volume changes velocitys and such, carb, something.

The light bulb will click on shortly...

The only question is, how fast Stihl can ship another Jug afterwards.

Here's to hanging it into the wind on a first effort and learning..

Quite a few guys woulda been too meek of spirit, to chance such efforts in plain view.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> The .325 is a problem for me, no bars or chains. Real men run 3/8.



Just a too stupid post, even by your standards! :fart:


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> Easy now. We don't need another chest thumping competition, lol.



Ya sorry Brad. Like you need another 15 pages of crap!


Hey, you ever thought of checking base volume? Curious to what it is as compared to the 441? Just a thought. Since the 441 responded so well. Wondering if there is some rule to a certain cc size it should x amount of base cc's.?


----------



## Shayne

Well I picked up mine today! Brad you are right it has really impressive, responsive torque, it maintains speed in the cut and can actually gain when buried! :chainsawguy:

I cut some juniper first.






Really Impressed so far.


----------



## 8433jeff

SawTroll said:


> Exactly, 3/8" chain on a 50cc saw never was a great idea - regardless if they "will pull" it, of course they will! :agree2:



.325 was made to make 40-50cc saws feel like grownups. I detest the stuff. 

Brad, nice thread, sorry you found a hangup so quickly, but thats Stihl a sweeeet saw, friend. And I have to ask-where'd you find that shirt, a garage sale of Kelso's from That 70's Show? And don't be embarrassed, you were working, and I don't wear clothes for church or bar into the shop either, I just kept thinking Santa should treat his neighbors better than that. (Was that a Husky mower?) If they had saws like that in the seventy's, the rain forest would be a memory by now.


----------



## parrisw

.325 is excellent stuff, anybody that says otherwise don't know chit.

I thought your shirt was pretty sweet too Brad!!


----------



## blsnelling

To do the work I have done to this saw, and have it refuse to rev any higher, tells me there's a bottle neck that refuses to flow more air/charge. You really need to see these transfer ducts to appreciate how tiny they are. They are much smaller than the actual transfer ports at the cylinder wall. But as tiny and deep as they are, would make opening them up very difficult.


----------



## blsnelling

Shayne said:


> Well I picked up mine today! Brad you are right it has really impressive, responsive torque, it maintains speed in the cut and can actually gain when buried! :chainsawguy:
> 
> Really Impressed so far.



Sweet. Glad you like it. Hard not to though ehh


----------



## blsnelling

Check out how much wider the transfer ducts are on this 441 jug.


----------



## Tzed250

blsnelling said:


> To do the work I have done to this saw, and have it refuse to rev any higher, tells me there's a bottle neck that refuses to flow more air/charge. You really need to see these transfer ducts to appreciate how tiny they are. They are much smaller than the actual transfer ports at the cylinder wall. But as tiny and deep as they are, would *make opening them up very difficult*.



http://www.extrudehone.com/auto/auto-performance.php


.


----------



## blsnelling

Tzed250 said:


> http://www.extrudehone.com/auto/auto-performance.php
> 
> 
> .



I certainly can't see doing this by hand with a carbide burr. As small as they are, all it would do it chatter and make a mess.

If I knew it was the size of these ducts, that would be great. But I'm really only guessing. I suppose I could open the venturi of the carb 1mm or so and see if that has any benfits. If it's the intake that's too small, well, there's not much you can do about that. The piston just won't allow it to be any wider. And it's not like you can take a piston from another saw and make it work with these strato saws. But I don't think it's the size of the intake. I have wondered about completely removing the divider in the intake. I only removed the little divider that pushes into the end of the carb. The problem with that, is that air is not going to flow well when it hits the flat wall of the intake flange.


----------



## 8433jeff

Yeah, I tend to agree with the transfers theory. I don't think its a case of "they'll never be able to port these (long evil laugh)" its the size of the saw. The divider thing I don't see as that big of a restriction, more of a limiter as to where the charge can flow. The bottom end theory to me isn't the problem, as you should have more than enough air/fuel there for charging. And it is what it is. One hell of a nice saw from the looks of it. Do you think they will carry as many strato versions as they do now, I mean I can't see a 271, 281 or a 311 but time will tell.


----------



## parrisw

Could you use the small diamond burrs Brad?


----------



## blsnelling

The problems I forsee are chatter in the small passage, and also how deep they are.


----------



## Shayne

Ok here's the pic I meant to attach earlier. See if it works.


----------



## blsnelling

Shayne said:


> Ok here's the pic I meant to attach earlier. See if it works.



Very nice Shayne. What B&C did you get with it? Any plans to adjust the squish or mod the muffler?


----------



## Shayne

Noodling cedar!


----------



## Shayne

blsnelling said:


> Very nice Shayne. What B&C did you get with it? Any plans to adjust the squish or mod the muffler?



I got the 18 inch b/c. That was the hardest part of my decision! I was thinking the 16 inch but thought seriously about the 20, so I went in between. Glad b/c decisions aren't forever! No on the moding, at least for now, though those are the first two things I would do. That's the reason I was asking about your thoughts on a stock 346 v stock 261. I'm impressed... at least for now. You did a fantastic job on this thread btw, tons of info, really appreciated!


----------



## Andyshine77

I find 18" on a 50cc saw perfect. Best of luck with the 261 they're nice saws.


----------



## Shayne

Brad, I can't remember if you mentioned the AV on this thing but that is something that really struck me as a huge improvement!


----------



## Andyshine77

Very very smooth, all the new Stihl's are very smooth, the old models feel like jackhammers.


----------



## Shayne

Andyshine77 said:


> Very very smooth, all the new Stihl's are very smooth, the old models feel like jackhammers.



:agree2:
That's for sure. Of course the best comparison size-wise in my stable is a 025 which basically has no AV.


----------



## Zombiechopper

Brad, have you thought about totally removing all the dividers in the carb and intake system? You could round the partition in the intake to make a smooth transition. fuel charge would hit both port systems. It would become a filthy polluting thing but I kind of like the idea. I'm not sure if the carb can feed enough fuel to all the ports?


----------



## bcorradi

Andyshine77 said:


> Very very smooth, all the new Stihl's are very smooth, the old models feel like jackhammers.


Which models are you referring to? 026/034/036/044/046/MS260/MS360/MS440/MS460 line?


----------



## MCW

SawTroll said:


> Sure, but I highly doubt it would be an improvement!





SawTroll said:


> Exactly, 3/8" chain on a 50cc saw never was a great idea - regardless if they "will pull" it, of course they will! :agree2:



Says who? You know I have the utmost respect for you Sawtroll but having used both 3/8" and .325" on my 5100-S there is no way that .325" comes even close. In speed it gets whipped and in wear, well, no comparison.
As I've said before, horses for courses - I know you love your .325" and thats fair enough, but there are many situations where 3/8" is far superior. In your situation obviously .325" works for you but to put the blinders on and say .325" is the only chain to use on a 50cc saw, well...


----------



## johnzski

I run 3/8 on my 5100 and a ne346 with no loss of performance I think. These saws are pushing 4 hp, should be no problem.


----------



## SawTroll

johnzski said:


> I run 3/8 on my 5100 and a ne346 with no loss of performance I think. These saws are pushing 4 hp, should be no problem.



It isn't anywhere close to a *problem*, nobody said it is!

Picking the right kind of chain often is more important than the pitch anyway.


----------



## gmax

MCW said:


> Says who? You know I have the utmost respect for you Sawtroll but having used both 3/8" and .325" on my 5100-S there is no way that .325" comes even close. In speed it gets whipped and in wear, well, no comparison.
> As I've said before, horses for courses - I know you love your .325" and thats fair enough, but there are many situations where 3/8" is far superior. In your situation obviously .325" works for you but to put the blinders on and say .325" is the only chain to use on a 50cc saw, well...



+1, I have 4 saws around 50cc that all run 3/8", they defiantly cut faster than
.325"


----------



## porsche965

My MS261 will be in next week. Ordered it with 18" bar/chain 3/8ths. Planning on comparing stock to stock Dolmar 5105 to the MS261, both wearing the same bar/chain set ups. New Stihl RSC chain and then new Stihl RM chain. The Dolmar has about 4 tanks through it so I'll try to get the Stihl caught up before the comparision, which I think should be close. Just performance, not talking about all the AV, Filtration, etc. 

For what it's worth on a good running 026 Pro the fastest 16" bar/chain I found was the Stihl RM chain over the RSC and also the .325 set up. But I'm not near as scientific as the rest on AS site but it works for me. I just like 3/8 better.
:greenchainsaw:


----------



## Diesel Pro

Shayne said:


> Noodling cedar!




I can smell it from here! That would make nice bedding for a dog house or other pet bed. We actually clad our sun porch with cedar as it's the one room in the house that teh dogs can come into.


----------



## MS460WOODCHUCK

Have we done the stock261 vs stock 346 yet? I'm interested in the out come of it but don't really want to read all the pages to find out


----------



## blsnelling

ms460woodchuck said:


> Have we done the stock261 vs stock 346 yet? I'm interested in the out come of it but don't really want to read all the pages to find out



The new 346 didn't show up yesterday. Maybe today.


----------



## 8433jeff

Sawtroll put a hold on them, sos he won't be embarrassed. lol


----------



## MacLaren

8433jeff said:


> Sawtroll put a hold on them, sos he won't be embarrassed. lol



Oh, is that what happened? I hope its not too embarrassing.....


----------



## SawTroll

8433jeff said:


> Sawtroll put a hold on them, sos he won't be embarrassed. lol


----------



## the westspartan

I am kinda torn on how I want this this whole 346 vs 261 thing to turn out. I am more of a Stihl fan than a Husky fan. However, I love my 346 and that 261 is an ugly saw as far as looks go (not that they matter much).

On a separate note, the 261 seems to be a scaled down version of the 441 EXCEPT FOR ONE KEY POINT.......the single barrel carb. The 441 has a 2 barrel setup, as many of you know. It is much more simple to have a single barrel, but is this a case of sacrificing power potential for simplicity?


----------



## MacLaren

From what you say, it seem to be.


----------



## blsnelling

8433jeff said:


> Sawtroll put a hold on them, sos he won't be embarrassed. lol


Lol. Good one



the westspartan said:


> On a separate note, the 261 seems to be a scaled down version of the 441 EXCEPT FOR ONE KEY POINT.......the single barrel carb. The 441 has a 2 barrel setup, as many of you know. It is much more simple to have a single barrel, but is this a case of sacrificing power potential for simplicity?


That very well could be.


----------



## Zombiechopper

I used to think the 441 double intake was awkward and I really was encouraged by the new single split intake on the 372XT, 261, 560XP....

But I'm starting to think that that split intake is rather important to making a strato saw be able to be ported as well as a conventional cylinder. 

Like Tzed keeps sayin, they have these babies engineered all out from the factory. I was just warming up to the strato idea and now I'm getting cold feet again. But then I fall into the category of users that only want ported saws....


----------



## chopperfreak2k1

the westspartan said:


> I am kinda torn on how I want this this whole 346 vs 261 thing to turn out. I am more of a Stihl fan than a Husky fan. However, I love my 346 and that 261 is an ugly saw as far as looks go (not that they matter much).
> 
> On a separate note, the 261 seems to be a scaled down version of the 441 EXCEPT FOR ONE KEY POINT.......the single barrel carb. The 441 has a 2 barrel setup, as many of you know. It is much more simple to have a single barrel, but is this a case of sacrificing power potential for simplicity?



yep, i agree. probably to keep costs down.



so who's gonna figure the new 2 barrel design out?


----------



## the westspartan

Zombiechopper said:


> I used to think the 441 double intake was awkward and I really was encouraged by the new single split intake on the 372XT, 261, 560XP....
> 
> But I'm starting to think that that split intake is rather important to making a strato saw be able to be ported as well as a conventional cylinder.
> 
> Like Tzed keeps sayin, they have these babies engineered all out from the factory. I was just warming up to the strato idea and now I'm getting cold feet again. But then I fall into the category of users that only want ported saws....



That is what I am thinking exactly!


----------



## Philbert

Great thread, except that it grows faster than I can read it. Must be a record for any thread that does not contain photos of naked people.

Brad, great photos showing the innards. Can you post a summary paragraph for the performance results - hard to follow through 40 pages. Your perspective of course.

Thanks.

Philbert


----------



## blsnelling

I couldn't stand it any longer. I may be in the market for a new 261 topend soon, lol. The divider is coming out of the intake boot, the intake flange of the cylinder is being significantly modified in a way that can't be reverse, and the carb is being opened up about 1mm. I also found another internal divider in the carb that does actually split the venturi in half. I had not noticed it before. It's a small plastic piece that fits in a slot. Thos slots will be removed, so I may need a new carb soon too


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> I couldn't stand it any longer. I may be in the market for a new 261 topend soon, lol. The divider is coming out of the intake boot, the intake flange of the cylinder is being significantly modified in a way that can't be reverse, and the carb is being opened up about 1mm. I also found another internal divider in the carb that does actually split the venturi in half. I had not noticed it before. It's a small plastic piece that fits in a slot. Thos slots will be removed, so I may need a new carb soon too



ha ha ha. Man you are NUTZ!!!! Carving up a brand new saw.


----------



## Tiger Rag

Philbert said:


> Great thread, except that it grows faster than I can read it. Must be a record for any thread that does not contain photos of naked people.
> 
> Brad, great photos showing the innards. Can you post a summary paragraph for the performance results - hard to follow through 40 pages. Your perspective of course.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Philbert



Exactly the same thing I was thinking....lol. I've stayed 10 pages down for 3 days, finally about the hit the last page.


----------



## Tiger Rag

blsnelling said:


> I couldn't stand it any longer. I may be in the market for a new 261 topend soon, lol. The divider is coming out of the intake boot, the intake flange of the cylinder is being significantly modified in a way that can't be reverse, and the carb is being opened up about 1mm. I also found another internal divider in the carb that does actually split the venturi in half. I had not noticed it before. It's a small plastic piece that fits in a slot. Thos slots will be removed, so I may need a new carb soon too



 LOL, how do you walk around with balls that big! :rockn:

Great thread though. Thanks for walking us through with you Brad!


----------



## Zombiechopper

blsnelling said:


> I couldn't stand it any longer. I may be in the market for a new 261 topend soon, lol. The divider is coming out of the intake boot, the intake flange of the cylinder is being significantly modified in a way that can't be reverse, and the carb is being opened up about 1mm. I also found another internal divider in the carb that does actually split the venturi in half. I had not noticed it before. It's a small plastic piece that fits in a slot. Thos slots will be removed, so I may need a new carb soon too



Do it Brad!

You might end up with some kind of super saw! Fuel fed through both port systems! Better fuel-air atomization and delivered to four different areas for more even dispersal. You might get something very special. Gotta try to know for sure though!


----------



## blsnelling

I think this 261 will now weigh less than a 026:rockn:


----------



## RTK

blsnelling said:


> I couldn't stand it any longer. I may be in the market for a new 261 topend soon, lol. The divider is coming out of the intake boot, the intake flange of the cylinder is being significantly modified in a way that can't be reverse, and the carb is being opened up about 1mm. I also found another internal divider in the carb that does actually split the venturi in half. I had not noticed it before. It's a small plastic piece that fits in a slot. Thos slots will be removed, so I may need a new carb soon too



That's the spirit, no pain no gain. It would be nice if you did one mod at a time, that way you would know for sure which one really woke it up.


----------



## sunfish

This is just too good, Brad! Enjoying it much! :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## blsnelling

Well, it's making *insane *RPMs now, but it won't even try to idle. I may have screwed up the carb I don't think it's getting fuel on the low side. I should have done the carb seperately. I'm not giving up yet. It's making so many RPMs that I found it actually has a rev limiter somewhere north of 15K. The tach goes silly and it starts breaking up. I'm guessing it'd be north of 16K without the limiter BTW, it's no longer a strato, lol. It just simply has extra transfer ports.


----------



## MCW

Why don't you just hang a nitrous kit and a supercharger off the side and be done with it


----------



## blsnelling

MCW said:


> Why don't you just hang a nitrous kit and a supercharger off the side and be done with it



NO2 is for the weak that can't make *real *power


----------



## MCW

blsnelling said:


> NO2 is for the weak that can't make *real *power



So you'll go down the supercharger route then?


----------



## 056 kid

North of 20,000 views, allmost 600 posts, all in a few days, and all over a 50cc chainsaw.


 #### me that is insane!


----------



## CentaurG2

I cant believe you eviscerated the poor little thing. Oh well this was a good thread… rest in peace (or pieces) little ms261. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kjh9lQXLWk


----------



## nmurph

i want to see what he can do with a 562, which starts off with 1hp and 3/4lb more.


----------



## bookerdog

nmurph said:


> i want to see what he can do with a 562, which starts off with 1hp and 3/4lb more.



From what I have heard the 562 is going to be autotune. I have heard the one 576 autotune saw done didn't turn out well. A MM doesn't seem to hurt the autotune but extensive port work does.


----------



## nmurph

bookerdog said:


> From what I have heard the 562 is going to be autotune. I have heard the one 576 autotune saw done didn't turn out well. A MM doesn't seem to hurt the autotune but extensive port work does.



i was thinking i had seen where someone had ported one and it turned out well. heck, even a MM 562 would probably be pushing 5hp in a light package.

BTW, like the new avatar!


----------



## blsnelling

All is not lost. It was the carb. I've grafted a larger carb on for the time being, but will order another new carb for the saw. The saw idles fine now, but has no choke. I'd rather loose a little power and retain full functionality, so a new carb it is.

Meanwhile, it's holding 12,500-12,700 with the 20" B&C!!! Vid coming soon.


----------



## bookerdog

nmurph said:


> i was thinking i had seen where someone had ported one and it turned out well. heck, even a MM 562 would probably be pushing 5hp in a light package.
> 
> BTW, like the new avatar!



Really looking forward to that saw getting here. If you find out who did the good job with the 576 let me know. thanks


----------



## blsnelling

Would you call me a liar if I told you it's an additional 20% faster than it was last night?!!!!!


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kyh-CU13Woc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kyh-CU13Woc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## blsnelling

The first of the two clips in this vid is from last night, and the second from tonight. It just makes it easier to see and hear the difference.


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TLJVAR6GmkE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TLJVAR6GmkE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## 8433jeff

WOW! I thinks its a little better


----------



## Philbert

blsnelling said:


> The first of the two clips in this vid is from last night, and the second from tonight. It just makes it easier to see and hear the difference.



WOW! It even makes your day brighter!

Philbert


----------



## Anthony_Va.

Whoa! Now you got the ticket brotha. 

So you did not completely remove the divider, just modified it? Sucker is running good now for sure. So how close is it to your all out 346? 

Now how long will it be before you grind the whole divider out?


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

Philbert said:


> WOW! It even makes your day brighter!
> 
> Philbert



Brad is so bright, his dad calls him son...LOL...


----------



## dieselram

WOW!!! That little thing RIPS now!!!


----------



## brokenbudget

how much of these gains are from the saw breaking in?


----------



## dieselram

blsnelling said:


> Would you call me a liar if I told you it's an additional 20% faster than it was last night?!!!!!
> 
> Last night it was 17% faster than stock. So it is now 37% faster than stock?????


----------



## Tiger Rag

blsnelling said:


> The first of the two clips in this vid is from last night, and the second from tonight. It just makes it easier to see and hear the difference.
> 
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TLJVAR6GmkE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TLJVAR6GmkE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



So is this comparison with the modified original carb that no longer idles well or with the grafted larger carb?


----------



## blsnelling

Anthony_Va. said:


> So you did not completely remove the divider, just modified it? Sucker is running good now for sure. So how close is it to your all out 346?
> 
> Now how long will it be before you grind the whole divider out?


There is no divider at all. The 261 is no longer a strato, lol. It just has an extra set of transfer



Tiger Rag said:


> So is this comparison with the modified original carb that no longer idles well or with the grafted larger carb?


This is with the larger carb. Honestly, I think I'll retain most all of the gains with another stock carb and the divider removed. The only reason I put this carb on there is because it was unusable with the original. It would only run at WOT.


----------



## Tiger Rag

blsnelling said:


> This is with the larger carb. Honestly, I think I'll retain most all of the gains with another stock carb and the divider removed. The only reason I put this carb on there is because it was unusable with the original. It would only run at WOT.



It is pretty doggone impressive with this carb. If you can get the stock carb to run like that, I think you're in business!


----------



## Shayne

blsnelling said:


> Well, it's making *insane *RPMs now, but it won't even try to idle. I may have screwed up the carb I don't think it's getting fuel on the low side. I should have done the carb seperately. I'm not giving up yet. It's making so many RPMs that I found it actually has a rev limiter somewhere north of 15K. The tach goes silly and it starts breaking up. I'm guessing it'd be north of 16K without the limiter BTW, it's no longer a strato, lol. It just simply has extra transfer ports.



Brad, can you post some pics of the modified carb? I would like to see what all you removed.


----------



## scottbeckerle

I just went and picked up my ms261 tonight from the local shop in town. He told me they still had around 211 ms260's left in the warehouse but he got them to sneak a couple 261's out to him. He saved me one of them and I can not wait to get out and use it.


----------



## MCW

blsnelling said:


> All is not lost. It was the carb. I've grafted a larger carb on for the time being, but will order another new carb for the saw.



I can sense global warming and polar icecaps melting...



Not...


----------



## bigredd

How did you destroy the carb?


----------



## Shayne

Tiger Rag said:


> It is pretty doggone impressive with this carb. If you can get the stock carb to run like that, I think you're in business!



:agree2:
Or if you can even get it close!


----------



## Anthony_Va.

I think that's the cherry he was milling before. Contrary to what Hairy Barfer said about it being rotted or whatever, I cut dry Cherry like that all the time, and I would have to hack at a piece that size for at least half a minute with my 260. Dried Cherry is some tough, hard wood. 

Brads got that saw screaming now, and has my wallet screaming OUCH! at the same time.  Thanks alot mang! :bang: Now my ole lady is gonna kill me for having to have another saw. 

Run her against that souped up 346! Lets get it on! Just see if it's anywhere close. C-mon ole buddy, you know ya want to. 

At least put it against a few stock saws of different sizes to see how it hangs. I'm dyin here!


----------



## blsnelling

Sorry to mislead you guys, but Andre tells me this is Black Walnut.


----------



## GoRving

Nice saw, Brad! Any saw that looks good as the centerpiece on the dining room table is ok in my book!


----------



## blsnelling

Back in the Oak cant with the 261, and gains are 28% over stock. I'm very happy with that.

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----------



## FATGUY

:biggrinbounce2:*LONG LIVE THE NEW KING OF 50CC SAWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## the westspartan

blsnelling said:


> Sorry to mislead you guys, but Andre tells me this is Black Walnut.



I wasn't going to say anything! LOL. Walnut is not as hard as cherry, but it is a legitimate hardwood especially if it is as dry as that appears to be. It also rules out any possibility of "dry rot" as black walnut is quite rot resistant.


----------



## Anthony_Va.

Black walnut is just about as hard as Cherry really. Especially when it's dry. Looks to be ripping through the Oak too.

28%, thats very good gains out of it really. I knew the trick would eventually be found. I hope to send mine straight atcha before the rope is ever pulled.  That is, whenever we get them here. May be awhile with the dealers we have.


----------



## blsnelling

I'm not sure what to think about the stock vs muffler modded 346 times. I cut a 10.02, 9.81, and 8.97. Then Andre cut a 8.09 and a 8.00. Yet both of our cut times were identical with the 261. I think this wood is just that inconsistent. So I went with Andre's time of 8.00 for stock. After muffler modding and installing the unlimited coil, I couldn't best that time. However, it is turning 15,300. Throttle respones is in insane. Those two feature are part of what make the 346 such a great limbing saw. So take the MM vid for what it's worth. If you listen closely, you can hear that it's turning about the same RPMs in the wood.

Using the stock and MM times of 8.00, *the MS261 is about 11% faster stock and 21% faster muffler modded than the 346XP*. With the last cut time of the 261 being 28% faster than stock, it should be right on the heals of my 346. I will be making that comparison, so hold your horses


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----------



## FATGUY

blsnelling said:


> Back in the Oak cant with the 261, and gains are 28% over stock. I'm very happy with that.


7.1/5.15= 1.38
so that's 38%, not 28%


----------



## bookerdog

FATGUY said:


> :biggrinbounce2:*LONG LIVE THE NEW KING OF 50CC SAWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*:hmm3grin2orange:



Sorry the 346 was 30 percent better then this saw stock so 346 by 2 percent.:biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2:


----------



## FATGUY

bookerdog said:


> Sorry the 346 was 30 percent better then this saw stock so 346 by 2 percent.:biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2:



no, you misunderstood. The 261 cut the cant in 7.1 sec, the 346 in 8.0 sec......:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## blsnelling

fatguy said:


> 7.1/5.15= 1.38
> so that's 38%, not 28%



7.14-5.14 = 2.00
2.00/7.14*100 = 28.01%


----------



## bookerdog

FATGUY said:


> no, you misunderstood. The 261 cut the cant in 7.1 sec, the 346 in 8.0 sec......:biggrinbounce2:



With the last cut time of the 261 being 28% faster than stock, it should be right on the heals of my 346. I did


----------



## FATGUY

that his personal 346, not the one in tonights video. The one in the video arrived today and Andre put a tank of fuel through it before the testing. Brads 346 has had quite a bit of work done to it


----------



## FATGUY

blsnelling said:


> 7.14-5.14 = 2.00
> 2.00/7.14*100 = 28.01%



well your way may be more accurate but my way yeilded better gains!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## parrisw

FATGUY said:


> Brads 346 has had quite a bit of work done to it



And this 261 doesn't?


----------



## Anthony_Va.

FATGUY said:


> well your way may be more accurate but my way yeilded better gains!:hmm3grin2orange:



Either way, I'm with you Fatguy. Where's da crown! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling

My 346 has a popup piston, ceramic bearings, and ceramic coated piston crown, combustion chamber, and exhaust port. It also has a 357XP carb. None of those are mods I do as part of a woods port.


----------



## blsnelling

parrisw said:


> And this 261 doesn't?



The replacement carb is the only thing that wouldn't be found in any of my woods ports. I'll be replacing it with another new one.


----------



## FATGUY

I meant to say the 261 stock is faster than the 346 stock.


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> My 346 has a popup piston, ceramic bearings, and ceramic coated piston crown, combustion chamber, and exhaust port. It also has a 357XP carb. None of those are mods I do as part of a woods port.



What's the compression on both saws? Didn't you say the 261 was about 195?

Do you think that the ceramic coating helps performance? I was let to believe it just helps keep the heat out of the piston? I have it done on a 395, and don't really think it helped performance.


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> The replacement carb is the only thing that wouldn't be found in any of my woods ports. I'll be replacing it with another new one.



I see. Like to know how it runs with the new carb.


----------



## blsnelling

parrisw said:


> What's the compression on both saws? Didn't you say the 261 was about 195?
> 
> Do you think that the ceramic coating helps performance? I was let to believe it just helps keep the heat out of the piston? I have it done on a 395, and don't really think it helped performance.



Honestly, I did not notice a difference. But the popuup and larger carb would not be typically found on my woods ports.

I have not checked any specs on this new 346.


----------



## blsnelling

parrisw said:


> I see. Like to know how it runs with the new carb.



I'll try to order a new on in the morning. I'm hoping they're available. Not only was I the first to buy a 261, I'm the first to be replacing parts on one:bang: Honestly, I'm very pleased not to be ordering a new cylinder and intake as well!


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> Honestly, I did not notice a difference. But the popuup and larger carb would not be typically found on my woods ports.
> 
> I have not checked any specs on this new 346.



For sure. Was just wondering what the compression is on your 346 compared to the 261?


----------



## blsnelling

parrisw said:


> For sure. Was just wondering what the compression is on your 346 compared to the 261?



It's no where near 195! I'd have to check, don't remember what it is.


----------



## Trigger-Time

Take 5.14 then add 39% = 7.1446

But if you take 7.14 and minus 28% = 5.1408


When doing % it makes all the diff in the world if you are adding or subtracting.



7.14-5.14 = 2.00


----------



## Anthony_Va.

So, are you finished porting it now? I figured you were but was'nt sure. Is it safe to say that it's maxed for a woods port now or no?


----------



## MS460WOODCHUCK

So am I understanding correctly that the 261 is stronger than the 346 both being in stock form and with both having a MM?


----------



## 8433jeff

I wonder what made the bigger thump over in Ohio today, that smokestack that fell in the opposite direction than intended, or the 346 when it came down off its pedestal. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange: 

Competition is good for everybody and I'm sure the Husky people are already devising a worthy successor, but they seem to be a step behind for the moment.


----------



## parrisw

8433jeff said:


> I wonder what made the bigger thump over in Ohio today, that smokestack that fell in the opposite direction than intended, or the 346 when it came down off its pedestal. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Competition is good for everybody and I'm sure the Husky people are already devising a worthy successor, but they seem to be a step behind for the moment.



A step behind? Dam how long has it taken now for them to compete with the 346? Hmmmm


----------



## blsnelling

Yes, I am done porting the 261. 

Here's what I started with.








Here are pics of what I did to it today. Now I'm not trying to enter this into a beauty contest, so I'm not worried about how "pretty" the porting is. It works. That's all I care about at this point.


----------



## blsnelling

ms460woodchuck said:


> So am I understanding correctly that the 261 is stronger than the 346 both being in stock form and with both having a MM?



That is correct, and by a significant margin.


----------



## wigglesworth

Holy crap.....:O

So no more strato for this one huh?

How big is the bore on the 261?


----------



## dingeryote

LOL!!!

I knew it wouldn't take too long before the itch got to Brad!:hmm3grin2orange:

Outstanding!!

Just for giggles though, I'd like to see the weight of the post modded 261.
I'm willing to bet Brad left close to 9oz on the shop floor LOL!!!!!!!!!

Looks like Stihl finally made a 50cc Pro saw that can compete.

Thanks for the extra innings and efforts Brad!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## mike1273

Brad, what carb did you graft on the 261 to replace the fubar'd stock one?


----------



## wendell

MCW said:


> So you'll go down the supercharger route then?



Anything to make a Stihl saw fastest at something! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Andyshine77

FATGUY said:


> I meant to say the 261 stock is faster than the 346 stock.



With the inconsistent times I would not even come close to calling it case closed. We need better test wood, and the same exact piece of wood. As soon as we switched cants the base line time for the 261 becomes less meaningful, but it's still a pretty good base line as the cant was made from the same tree. However I simply do not feel the stock 261 is anywhere close 28% faster than a stock 346. That would mean Brads ported 346 is close to 60% stronger than stock, this is unlikely. Time will tell. Both saws also need some real run time on them, 20 tanks or more IMHO for a real test, as my 346 was a total dog until I had some hard time on it. Sorry I just don't think the 28% will hold up in the long run IMHO.

I love the 261, it's an awesome saw. However after running both tonight I think I've come to the conclusion I like the 346 better, as the 261 does feel like a bigger saw, but it also runs like a bigger saw. I realized this after running both saws back to back. 

Is the 261 the new king? Maybe, time will tell. I'm simply not one to jump to any conclusions this early in the game. So as of now long live the king aka 346xp.

If I'm wrong I'll sell all my Husky's.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:oke:opcorn:


----------



## brncreeper

Andyshine77 said:


> With the inconsistent times I would not even come close to calling it case closed. We need better test wood! most hard wood has too many old branches and knots. I don't feel the stock 261 is really 28% faster than a stock 346, but time will tell. Both saws also need some real run time on them, 20 tanks or more IMHO for a real test, as my 346 was a total dog until I had some hard time on it.
> 
> I love the 261, it's an awesome saw. However after running both tonight I think I've come to the conclusion I like the 346 better, as the 261 does feel more like a bigger saw, but it also runs like a bigger saw. I realized this after running both saws back to back.
> 
> Is the 261 the new king? Maybe, time will tell. I'm simply not one to jump to any conclusions this early in the game. So as of now long live the king.


How is the 261 compared to the 260 PRO? From what I've read I don't like the fragile carb, fixed keyway, extra weight and bulk of the 261.


----------



## Andyshine77

brncreeper said:


> fragile carb



I'm not sure what you mean here. Brad did mod the stock carb on the 261 and it didn't take, it didn't break or anything like that.

The 261 blows away the 260! The overall weight of the 261 is fine, and all in all it's not that much bulkier than the 346 but it is noticeable when you handle both saws.


----------



## brncreeper

Andyshine77 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean here. Brad did mod the stock carb on the 261 and it didn't take, it didn't break or anything like that.
> 
> The 261 blows away the 260! The overall weight of the 261 is fine, and all in all it's not that much bulkier than the 346 but it is noticeable when you handle both saws.


Thanks, just curious. I didn't get the whole story on the carb.


----------



## porsche965

Sometimes I wonder if anybody goes to the gym anymore or does any actual manual labor or hard work. It is amazing how 1/2 a pound makes a huge difference in opinion. 

I get the feeling that those complaining about small weight differences should instead of buying another saw go buy a membership to a gym or buy a set of dumbells, instead of hiding behind their computer screens. 

It's as if a saw has to be a certain weight or it makes it bad. What the heck do you do when you pick up the next size saw that weighs 2 pounds more? Cry to your wife, "Honey come help me run this saw, it is heavy!"

Can't wait to meet the 1/2 pound complainers at a GTG. Got the feeling it will feel like a powder puff derby.

Grow some muscle.:bang:


----------



## sbhooper

Yep!


----------



## Andyshine77

porsche965 said:


> Sometimes I wonder if anybody goes to the gym anymore or does any actual manual labor or hard work. It is amazing how 1/2 a pound makes a huge difference in opinion.
> 
> I get the feeling that those complaining about small weight differences should instead of buying another saw go buy a membership to a gym or buy a set of dumbells, instead of hiding behind their computer screens.
> 
> It's as if a saw has to be a certain weight or it makes it bad. What the heck do you do when you pick up the next size saw that weighs 2 pounds more? Cry to your wife, "Honey come help me run this saw, it is heavy!"
> 
> Can't wait to meet the 1/2 pound complainers at a GTG. Got the feeling it will feel like a powder puff derby.
> 
> Grow some muscle.:bang:



You do know I own a 084.


----------



## Andyshine77

The 28% is just not adding up, the 260 was only 20 to 22% slower than the stock 261. That just doesn't add up as we know for a fact the 346 is stronger than the 260 by quite a bit. They're simply too many variables here, the wood, chain and break in time. 

Sorry I'm not trying to discredit the results, I simply don't think the results are definitive yet.

With that said the way Brad ported that 261 made it run like a stock 70cc saw, and I'm not joking.


----------



## SawTroll

bigredd said:


> How did you destroy the carb?



Experimentation - he talked about it here before he did it!


----------



## MCW

Andyshine77 said:


> You do know I own a 084.



Rumour has it Andy that you run one in each hand?


----------



## Andyshine77

MCW said:


> Rumour has it Andy that you run one in each hand?



Well my ex GF said I could probably run three.:blush:


----------



## MCW

Andyshine77 said:


> Well my ex GF said I could probably run three.:blush:



She told me two 084's and an MS170?


----------



## Andyshine77

She also said I had the biggest one in the whole neighborhood, now what does that mean?


----------



## MCW

Andyshine77 said:


> She also said I had the biggest one in the whole neighborhood, now what does that mean?



Always concerning when you hear that. Better than "well it's bigger than your brothers" though...


----------



## blsnelling

Andre, you're just going to have to face it. The 261 is considerably stronger than the 346 both stock a MMd. It'll be ok now, it'll be ok Also, the 261 was wearing a 20" B&C while the 346 had a 16" B&C when you got those impressions. Now just hand me those blinders, lol. As far as the percentages go, you can't just add and subtract. They don't work like that.


----------



## CentaurG2

porsche965 said:


> Sometimes I wonder if anybody goes to the gym anymore or does any actual manual labor or hard work. It is amazing how 1/2 a pound makes a huge difference in opinion.
> 
> I get the feeling that those complaining about small weight differences should instead of buying another saw go buy a membership to a gym or buy a set of dumbells, instead of hiding behind their computer screens.
> 
> It's as if a saw has to be a certain weight or it makes it bad. What the heck do you do when you pick up the next size saw that weighs 2 pounds more? Cry to your wife, "Honey come help me run this saw, it is heavy!"
> 
> Can't wait to meet the 1/2 pound complainers at a GTG. Got the feeling it will feel like a powder puff derby.
> 
> Grow some muscle.:bang:



I have a stihl ts510. You run a couple of tanks through it and you begin to understand why piddly little things like weight and antivibe begin to matter a great deal.


----------



## FATGUY

MCW said:


> Always concerning when you hear that. Better than "well it's bigger than your brothers" though...



ummmm, his brother lives next door.....:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## BloodOnTheIce

Thanks guys had a guy chew me out why I didn't have a MS261 sitting on the shelf the other day. "Well I saw this guy in Ohio had one on a chainsaw website, why the hell don't you have one?"


----------



## Stihl-Pioneer

BloodOnTheIce said:


> Thanks guys had a guy chew me out why I didn't have a MS261 sitting on the shelf the other day. "Well I saw this guy in Ohio had one on a chainsaw website, why the hell don't you have one?"



Ain't the internet just great!!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Trigger-Time

BloodOnTheIce said:


> Thanks guys had a guy chew me out why I didn't have a MS261 sitting on the shelf the other day. "Well I saw this guy in Ohio had one on a chainsaw website, why the hell don't you have one?"



Well why don't you, 2 or 3 others guys in U.S. have said in this thread
they picked one up. :hmm3grin2orange:



Bet a dollar Stihl will have some dealers calling and wanting
to know what the hell is going on.



TT


----------



## SawTroll

Andyshine77 said:


> ....
> I love the 261, it's an awesome saw. However after running both tonight I think I've come to the conclusion I like the 346 better, as the 261 does feel like a bigger saw, but it also runs like a bigger saw. I realized this after running both saws back to back.
> 
> ......




No surprices there, and a saw that feels bigger is exactly what I don't want!


----------



## blsnelling

SawTroll said:


> No surprices there, and a saw that feels bigger is exactly what I don't want!



Of course it felt bigger. It had a 20" B&C on it.


----------



## 2000ssm6

Andyshine77 said:


> If I'm wrong I'll sell all my Husky's.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:oke:opcorn:



So you have a lot of huskies for sale???:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## wendell

Andyshine77 said:


> Well my ex GF said I could probably run three.:blush:



Is that why they call you "The Beast"? :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> I'm not sure what to think about the stock vs muffler modded 346 times. I cut a 10.02, 9.81, and 8.97. Then Andre cut a 8.09 and a 8.00. Yet both of our cut times were identical with the 261. I think this wood is just that inconsistent.
> 
> Using the stock and MM times of 8.00, *the MS261 is about 11% faster stock and 21% faster muffler modded than the 346XP*. With the last cut time of the 261 being 28% faster than stock, it should be right on the heals of my 346. I will be making that comparison, so hold your horses






ms460woodchuck said:


> So am I understanding correctly that the 261 is stronger than the 346 both being in stock form and with both having a MM?
> 
> 
> blsnelling said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is correct, and by a significant margin.
Click to expand...


I'm afraid this is just handwaving at this point. When you get a range of times that is more than 2 seconds for a single saw in a single session, it doesn't make sense to say that .9 seconds or 1.68 seconds is any kind of meaningful difference.

We could look at the raw numbers and make a comparison that takes the variation in times into account, but this only would really be valid if you alternated cuts with each saw to collect those data (or flipped a coin to determine which saw made the next cut). Based on the existing variation, you'd want at least 10 cuts from each.

At this point, the best you can say is that it is a push...the numbers don't add anything to the discussion.


----------



## brages

porsche965 said:


> Sometimes I wonder if anybody goes to the gym anymore or does any actual manual labor or hard work. It is amazing how 1/2 a pound makes a huge difference in opinion.



When you get 50cc saws up in the high 11-pound range, it's pretty easy to start comparing them to the best lightweight 60cc saws. (12.3 lbs ms361; 12.3 & 11.8 lbs for the Husky 555, 562xp)


----------



## CentaurG2

A good scientist is objective and unbiased and good data is repeatable and confirmable by others. Not seeing a lot of that here but what do you expect for nothing. Give the saw some time to get out into the real market. Folks that make a living with a saw will let you know if it’s a runner or a doorstop.


----------



## blsnelling

Come on guys. This is not scientific testing. You'd have to have a dyno to do that. I don't have the time or the resources to do that kind of testing, and am doing the best with what I have. What I've done here *does *give you a real world idea of what can be expected. There is absolutely no question that the MS261 is stronger both stock and muffler modded. Anyone that wants to argue that is just putting blinders on and ignoring the truth.


----------



## THALL10326

CentaurG2 said:


> A good scientist is objective and unbiased and *good data is repeatable and confirmable by others*. Not seeing a lot of that here but what do you expect for nothing. Give the saw some time to get out into the real market. Folks that make a living with a saw will let you know if it’s a runner or a doorstop.




Cent I gotta thank you man, what you said that I highlighted will be used by yours truely over and over at the sales rack. Man I should send you a commission. You know exactly how I'm going to use that,LOL

This thread is a doosy for sure. I was hoping Brad would wait and run the 261 pure stock out the box with a pure stock 346 out the box. The need for speed got the best of him but lust for ulitmate power is hard to tame I guess. Lucky me I need to get my oiler striaghtened out on my pure stock 346 and await the arrival of the 261 here. Then its apples to apples. I got a feeling they will be within a hair of each other. Course the 346 will do it lighter while the 261 does it on less fuel, take ya choice I say,


----------



## CentaurG2

blsnelling said:


> Come on guys. This is not scientific testing. You'd have to have a dyno to do that. I don't have the time or the resources to do that kind of testing, and am doing the best with what I have. What I've done here *does *give you a real world idea of what can be expected. There is absolutely no question that the MS261 is stronger both stock and muffler modded. Anyone that wants to argue that is just putting blinders on and ignoring the truth.



Not trying to fault you or your testing. Personally, I think you went above and beyond the call and you did durn good for what you had but one data point does not make or break a case. Give it some time and let other have some input on the 261 performance before we all stick the proverbial fork into the 346xp and declare it done. Otherwise, this is just going to turn into a numbers bickering party.


----------



## blsnelling

THALL10326 said:


> I was hoping Brad would wait and run the 261 pure stock out the box with a pure stock 346 out the box. The need for speed got the best of him but lust for ulitmate power is hard to tame I guess.



They were both run stock for stock in cants from the same tree, side by side out of the heart of the log. Doesn't get much more comparable than that. This only issue is that the wood is inconsistent from cut to cut. That's why I make multiple cuts per test.


----------



## THALL10326

blsnelling said:


> They were both run stock for stock in cants from the same tree, side by side out of the heart of the log. Doesn't get much more comparable than that.



I thought you opened the muffler on the 261, 346 muffler was opened too?, maybe I missed that. If thats the case then looking at the vids the 261 gave that 346 a spanking, pure and simple. Course it doesn't matter much to me as to which is fastest, I fancy the 346 for its a nice little saw. The 261 looks great and yes it looks very powerfull when compared to one of the so called hot 50cc saws, the 346, need to get a 5100 in the mix and crown one of the three.

What you showed confirmed what I been hearing from my buddies at Stihl, its a hot little saw. Should sell great considering all the improvements over the 260, thats where my interest is. You put in a awful lot of effort with those saws, more so than most would, good job!!!!!!!!


----------



## blsnelling

THALL10326 said:


> I thought you opened the muffler on the 261, 346 muffler was opened too?, maybe I missed that. If thats the case then looking at the vids the 261 gave that 346 a spanking, pure and simple. Course it doesn't matter much to me as to which is fastest, I fancy the 346 for its a nice little saw. The 261 looks great and yes it looks very powerfull when compared to one of the so called hot 50cc saws, the 346, need to get a 5100 in the mix and crown one of the three.
> 
> What you showed confirmed what I been hearing from my buddies at Stihl, its a hot little saw. Should sell great considering all the improvements over the 260, thats where my interest is. You put in a awful lot of effort with those saws, more so than most would, good job!!!!!!!!



Both the 261 and 346 were run bone stock after 1-1 1/2 tanks of fuel through them. They were then both muffler modded and tested again. The 346 already bested the 5100, both stock and ported.


----------



## CentaurG2

THALL10326 said:


> Cent I gotta thank you man, what you said that I highlighted will be used by yours truely over and over at the sales rack. Man I should send you a commission. You know exactly how I'm going to use that,LOL
> 
> This thread is a doosy for sure. I was hoping Brad would wait and run the 261 pure stock out the box with a pure stock 346 out the box. The need for speed got the best of him but lust for ulitmate power is hard to tame I guess. Lucky me I need to get my oiler striaghtened out on my pure stock 346 and await the arrival of the 261 here. Then its apples to apples. I got a feeling they will be within a hair of each other. Course the 346 will do it lighter while the 261 does it on less fuel, take ya choice I say,



De nada.


----------



## THALL10326

blsnelling said:


> Both the 261 and 346 were run bone stock after 1-1 1/2 tanks of fuel through them. They were then both muffler modded and tested again. The 346 already bested the 5100, both stock and ported.



Great. I've had a hard time keeping up with this thread, its been growning pages by the minute. So power wise the 261 has gonads, cool beans. My only questions left is did it take a crane to lift the 261 to the cant? Did it take two sets of hands to handle the 261? Point I'm making is no matter whether the 261 is a winner or not some Husky guys will find fault with it and the Stihl guys will defend it. Course now they are running out of options with the 261 considering all the vast improvements. That saw will be much harder to knock than the 260 even though the 260 did what, yes outsold them all. I'm looking forward selling the 261, its gonna be too easy, hard part is ever getting the dayumm thing here,grrrrrrr.


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> Come on guys. This is not scientific testing. You'd have to have a dyno to do that.



You don't need a dyno, just follow the procedure I outlined. Data collected in that manner will account for inconsistency in the wood when a proper comparison is made. 

The only point I'm trying to make is that I agree with you. As conducted, the comparison was not scientific...so don't toss out percentages and pretend that they have any meaning.

You had both saws in your hand, and you say the 261 is more powerful. I believe you. You just aren't able to generate conclusive numbers that back that up. I don't think you need to, but I'd be glad to explain how it could be done if having meaningful numbers is your goal.


----------



## edisto

THALL10326 said:


> That saw will be much harder to knock than the 260 even though the 260 did what, yes outsold them all. I'm looking forward selling the 261, its gonna be too easy, hard part is ever getting the dayumm thing here,grrrrrrr.



Is your next video going to be titled "Fist Full of Dollars"?


----------



## THALL10326

edisto said:


> Is your next video going to be titled "Fist Full of Dollars"?



Hey sounds good to me,LOL 

That little saw will sell good. It just has so many selling points over the 260 and the 260 sold very well. I can only imagine how that thing is gonna move, we doggie, two fists full of dollars,haha


----------



## banshee67

blsnelling said:


> Yes, I am done porting the 261.
> 
> Here's what I started with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are pics of what I did to it today. Now I'm not trying to enter this into a beauty contest, so I'm not worried about how "pretty" the porting is. It works. That's all I care about at this point.




i hope you didnt void the warranty !

that thing really screams, i think you have changed a lot of peoples opinions on stihls new gas friendly replacements with this thread, nice work


----------



## blsnelling

banshee67 said:


> i hope you didnt void the warranty !
> 
> that thing really screams, i think you have changed a lot of peoples opinions on stihls new gas friendly replacements with this thread, nice work



Doubt this one's gas friendly anymore, lol. It's really no longer a strato. All air going into the cylinder is mixed with fuel now.


----------



## Chris J.

I want to thank Brad for his efforts.

I'll leave the percentages & whatever discussion to the guys with plenty of saw experience.


----------



## sjp

great stuff!!!! show that cylinder no mercy


----------



## timistall

Trigger-Time said:


> Well why don't you, 2 or 3 others guys in U.S. have said in this thread
> they picked one up. :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> 
> Bet a dollar Stihl will have some dealers calling and wanting
> to know what the hell is going on.
> 
> 
> 
> TT



Called all my dealers, FL will not see any 261s till Jan. of 2011.


----------



## nmurph

brad, i may have missed it, but was the muff you modded a non-cat? it really doesn't matter, the 261 should be faster. 

as i see it from my chair-
261----faster, heavier, more fuel efficient and 20% more expensive.
346--- more nimble and zippier, and 20 cheaper.


----------



## BloodOnTheIce

Trigger-Time said:


> Well why don't you, 2 or 3 others guys in U.S. have said in this thread
> they picked one up. :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> 
> Bet a dollar Stihl will have some dealers calling and wanting
> to know what the hell is going on.
> 
> 
> 
> TT



My Stihl distributor doesn't have any available yet, trust me I've asked, begged, pleaded. They won't ship any unit the 260's are gone, and eta is still January, I asked yesterday. 

Driving to my distributor and picking one up isn't an option, it's between 8-10 hours each way to their place in CT.


----------



## blsnelling

nmurph said:


> brad, i may have missed it, but was the muff you modded a non-cat? it really doesn't matter, the 261 should be faster.
> 
> as i see it from my chair-
> 261----faster, heavier, more fuel efficient and 20% more expensive.
> 346--- more nimble and zippier, and 20 cheaper.



No, it does not have a cat. I've yet to see a strato saw with a cat.

I doubt the 261 is more fuel efficient with this porting, since it's no longer a strato. But I think you summed it up quite accurately. They're both awesome saws

BTW, the bigger carb isn't going anywhere. I got it idled down by peening the bleeder on the throttle valve and fitting it to the bore of the carb. It takes VERY little air for a small saw like this to idle. I was also able to modify the linkages such that I now have choke, high speed idle, and idle adjustment. It now operates as good as the stock carb, only I have a bigger venturi


----------



## chopperfreak2k1

Brad, i either forget or i missed it, but what carb was the 261 wearing for the tests?


----------



## CentaurG2

BloodOnTheIce said:


> My Stihl distributor doesn't have any available yet, trust me I've asked, begged, pleaded. They won't ship any unit the 260's are gone, and eta is still January, I asked yesterday.
> 
> Driving to my distributor and picking one up isn't an option, it's between 8-10 hours each way to their place in CT.



I wonder if that means that Stihl dealers in this corner of the world are a little behind the curve or potential 50cc class saw buyers around here are a little ahead of the curve??


----------



## blsnelling

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> Brad, i either forget or i missed it, but what carb was the 261 wearing for the tests?



Zama C3M, intended for a 044. It's the same model I used on my MS361 and MS260. It has worked great on all of these saws. Unlike the MS260, I was able to retain all functionality with choke etc. I had to use the throttle shafts and linkage from the original carb, and then modify some of the linkages. I loves me welder It's certainly not just a bolt on mod.


----------



## D&B Mack

Just came back from my dealer. Called his distributor. As previously stated, won't release until all 260 pros are sold. Two weeks ago they had 830, now they have 658. However, they don't expect to be sold down until (earliest) end of January to (latest) end of February. Says this is for all the northeast. However, my dealer has seen one. A tree company got one in as a demo/testing model. Said it is very nice, the guys running it love it over the 260.


----------



## blsnelling

D&B Mack said:


> the guys running it love it over the 260.



Hard not to when it's 20% stronger and uses less fuel. That's really too bad you guys are having trouble getting one My dealer ordered one and have it in stock, so they are definately available to the general public now in this area.


----------



## CentaurG2

Oh the death of a titan! A week ago the ms260 was one of the best saws on the market, now everyone hits it over the head like a baby harp seal. Sad really but I don’t remember this problem when the market transitioned from the OE346xp to the NE346xp. I wonder why??


----------



## blsnelling

CentaurG2 said:


> Oh the death of a titan! A week ago the ms260 was one of the best saws on the market, now everyone hits it over the head like a baby harp seal. *Sad really but I don’t remember this problem when the market transitioned from the OE346xp to the NE346xp. I wonder why?*?



That's because the OE 346 is was still the second fastest 50cc saw, even against the 5100.


----------



## chopperfreak2k1

blsnelling said:


> Zama C3M, intended for a 044. It's the same model I used on my MS361 and MS260. It has worked great on all of these saws. Unlike the MS260, I was able to retain all functionality with choke etc. I had to use the throttle shafts and linkage from the original carb, and then modify some of the linkages. I loves me welder It's certainly not just a bolt on mod.



thanks very much


----------



## blsnelling

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> thanks very much



Now you guys know *all *my secrets, lol Wait....I don't have any


----------



## CentaurG2

blsnelling said:


> That's because the OE 346 is was still the second fastest 50cc saw, even against the 5100.



No contest in that race. In the real world, my 5100 is faster than either my oe or ne346xp and statistically on par with my now stock ms361. Too bad the 5100 handles like ruger gold label and the 346xp handles like a A.H Fox. So how long do you figure it will be before stihl can poop out another entry into the pro 50cc market?? One maybe two decades??


----------



## litefoot

This thread has been VERY interesting and I applaud Brad for his willingness to give us a preview of the 261, but I wanted to give a little prespective from a cheap firewood cutters point of view.

I know this will sound like heresy, but to me, if a saw has "enough" power for its class, then that's good enough for me. So if two saws are somewhat equal in power, then the choice gets down to dealer support, handling and trigger response...in that order. That's why I loved the 026/260 saws. They certainly have the handling and dealer support, but they obviously lack the zip of the 346 NE. But...the 026 is good enough for me. Call me a tightwad or whatever, but the saw has served me well and I have now intentions of getting rid of it.

Now if any of you want to cast off your newly-dethroned 346 NE's, then I gladly accept them into my orphan home for disgraced saws.


----------



## SawTroll

CentaurG2 said:


> No contest in that race. In the real world, my 5100 is faster than either my oe or ne346xp and statistically on par with my now stock ms361. .....



Statements like that always made me wonder about the motive of the poster, as it has been known to go both ways in real trials (I don't consider it tests).

Mostly, no care was taken to use the exact same bar and chain on both, but when I timed mine, I did. My 346xp was faster than my 5100S with all the options I tried - but not enough to really matter. 

What keeps my 5100SH out of the woods, and in the yard, is how clumcy it handles for limbing etc, not how it cuts.

I was sure that the MS261 would be about the same story before this thread, and it has served to confirm just that!


----------



## blsnelling

litefoot said:


> This thread has been VERY interesting and I applaud Brad for his willingness to give us a preview of the 261, but I wanted to give a little prespective from a cheap firewood cutters point of view.
> 
> I know this will sound like heresy, but to me, if a saw has "enough" power for its class, then that's good enough for me. So if two saws are somewhat equal in power, then the choice gets down to dealer support, handling and trigger response...in that order. That's why I loved the 026/260 saws. They certainly have the handling and dealer support, but they obviously lack the zip of the 346 NE. But...the 026 is good enough for me. Call me a tightwad or whatever, but the saw has served me well and I have now intentions of getting rid of it.
> 
> Now if any of you want to cast off your newly-dethroned 346 NE's, then I gladly accept them into my orphan home for disgraced saws.



I totally understand your take on this


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> Andre, you're just going to have to face it. The 261 is considerably stronger than the 346 both stock a MMd. It'll be ok now, it'll be ok Also, the 261 was wearing a 20" B&C while the 346 had a 16" B&C when you got those impressions. Now just hand me those blinders, lol. As far as the percentages go, you can't just add and subtract. They don't work like that.



No I don't have to face it! it simply doesn't add up. If we go by the timed cuts the 260 is stronger than the 346, and we both know that isn't so. That's all I'm saying, you can't make 3 6 10 cuts with different chains, bars, wood and say the ballgame is over. Sorry but you have to admit something off here.oke::rant:


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> No I don't have to face it! it simply doesn't add up. If we go by the timed cuts the 260 is stronger than the 346, and we both know that isn't so. That's all I'm saying, you can't make 3 6 10 cuts with different chains, bars, wood and say the ballgame is over. Sorry but you have to admit something off here.oke::rant:



It's about time you showed up to defend yourself, lol. The only thing off is that you can't stand seeing another saw beat your precious 346:greenchainsaw: Make sure you bring it tomorrow


----------



## Andyshine77

SawTroll said:


> Statements like that always made me wonder about the motive of the poster, as it has been known to go both ways in real trials (I don't consider it tests).
> 
> Mostly, no care was taken to use the exact same bar and chain on both, but when I timed mine, I did. My 346xp was faster than my 5100S with all the options I tried - but not enough to really matter.
> 
> What keeps my 5100SH out of the woods, and in the yard, is how clumcy it handles for limbing etc, not how it cuts.
> 
> I was sure that the MS261 would be about the same story before this thread, and it has served to confirm just that!



The 261 is in between the 5100 and 346 when it comes to overall feel, weight and handling, but overall it's a much better engineered saw than the 5100.


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> The 261 is in between the 5100 and 346 when it comes to overall feel, weight and handling, but overall it's a much better engineered saw than the 5100.



Andre, it will make you feel better if you go ahead and say it to the masses. Repeat after me. "The Stihl MS261 is a significantly stronger saw, both stock and MMd, than a 346XP." See there, it wasn't that hard!:greenchainsaw:


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> It's about time you showed up to defend yourself, lol. The only thing off is that you can't stand seeing another saw beat your precious 346:greenchainsaw: Make sure you bring it tomorrow



Another saw??? The only stock 50cc saw that we know may be stronger is the 261.

So do you think the 260 is stronger than the 346? that what this test says. Answer my Damn question.:rant::rant::rant:

Getting madder much madder.


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> So do you think the 260 is stronger than the 346? that what this test says. Answer my Damn question.:rant::rant::rant:
> 
> Getting madder much madder.



Yap, yap, yap, yap, yap. Where are you getting that I said the 026 is stronger?


----------



## CentaurG2

blsnelling said:


> Andre, it will make you feel better if you go ahead and say it to the masses. Repeat after me. "The Stihl MS261 is a significantly stronger saw, both stock and MMd, than a 346XP." See there, it wasn't that hard!:greenchainsaw:



Sorry Bradly, but your “tests” cannot allow you to make that conclusion. Why belittle yourself ? Self admitted, you aint no scientist and you see in orange and white. The show was over before it even began. Just let it go. You cant make chicken soup, out of chicken crap. Let it go and the free market will decide the winner.


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> Yap, yap, yap, yap, yap. Where are you getting that I said the 026 is stronger?



Post #249 in this thread the 026 was 20-22% slower than the 261, the 346 was 28% slower yet we know the 346 is much stronger than the 026.


----------



## blsnelling

CentaurG2 said:


> Sorry Bradly, but your “tests” cannot allow you to make that conclusion. Why belittle yourself ? Self admitted, you aint no scientist and you see in orange and white. The show was over before it even began. Just let it go. You cant make chicken soup, out of chicken crap. Let it go and the free market will decide the winner.



Sounds like you're the one that needs to let it go:greenchainsaw: Even with a significant margin of error, my tests show that the 261 is considerably stronger than the 346 both stock a MMd.


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> Post #249 in this thread the 026 was 20-22% slower than the 261, the 346 was 28% slower yet we know the 346 is much stronger than the 026.


Were are you getting that 346 number?

Stock cut times were as follows.

026 - 9.13
346XP - 8.00
MS261 - 7.14

That makes the MS261 22% faster than the 026 and 11% faster than the 346XP.


----------



## Andyshine77

brages said:


> Do we? :monkey:
> 
> *Stihl 026* -- "most powerful sub-11 lb saw"
> 
> :yoyo:



Yes that's never been in question, many many test over the last few years have proven this.


----------



## blsnelling

Once MMd, the times were:

MS261 - 6.29
346XP - 8.02

Here the MS261 is 22% faster than the 346XP.


----------



## brages

Andyshine77 said:


> Yes that's never been in question, many many test over the last few years have proven this.



I deleted that post because it was garbage -- this is too good of a thread to be clowning around in...


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> Were are you getting that 346 number?
> 
> Stock cut times were as follows.
> 
> 026 - 9.13
> 346XP - 8.00
> MS261 - 7.14
> 
> That makes the MS261 22% faster than the 026 and 11% faster than the 346XP.



post 633

11% is more like it, that I will not argue with.


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> Yes that's never been in question, many many test over the last few years have proven this.



By what, 2.6 oz? I don't have a weight on a OE 346, but it's lighter than the NE 346. As far as I'm concerned, that nullifies the claim to fame of the 026 being so much lighter.


----------



## blsnelling

blsnelling said:


> 7.14-5.14 = 2.00
> 2.00/7.14*100 = 28.01%





Andyshine77 said:


> post 633



That's where I said the MS261 is now 28% faster than it was stock. That had nothing to do with the 346. Get your facts straight *"Husky lover"!*:greenchainsaw:


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> Sounds like you're the one that needs to let it go:greenchainsaw: Even with a significant margin of error, my tests show that the 261 is considerably stronger than the 346 both stock a MMd.



You're still missing the point Brad. The margin of error is determined by the variation among cuts from a single saw. That variation is MUCH larger than the difference between the 2 saws.

There was too much variation for there to be a detectable difference from the numbers. You might have detected it by feel, but the numbers don't bear it out.

Did Andyshine run both saws?


----------



## blsnelling

edisto said:


> You're still missing the point Brad. The margin of error is determined by the variation among cuts from a single saw. That variation is MUCH larger than the difference between the 2 saws.
> 
> There was too much variation for there to be a detectable difference from the numbers. You might have detected it by feel, but the numbers don't bear it out.
> 
> Did Andyshine run both saws?



I understand your point. What your missing is that all who have ran the 261 will tell you that it is indeed measurably stronger than the 346. Yes, Andre has run the 261. He's the one that commented that it runs like a 70cc saw now.


----------



## blsnelling

I'm having so much fun here, that I'm letting you guys keep me from putting the new ported 346 back together. I'm outa here for a while


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> I understand your point. What your missing is that all who have ran the 261 will tell you that it is indeed measurably stronger than the 346.



I'm not missing that at all. I've said that in all my posts. I also said I trust their opinions. 

That's also why I asked if Andyshine had run both.

I have no problem with you saying it's stronger. You've run both, and I have run neither. Just quit pretending you have meaningful numbers when you say it.


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> That's where I said the MS261 is now 28% faster than it was stock. That had nothing to do with the 346. Get your facts straight *"Husky lover"!*:greenchainsaw:



OK I was mistaken. 

11% seems like a very accurate number. The 261 definitely has a bit more torque, most strato saws do.


----------



## CentaurG2

blsnelling said:


> Sounds like you're the one that needs to let it go:greenchainsaw: Even with a significant margin of error, my tests show that the 261 is considerably stronger than the 346 both stock a MMd.



Sigh… you are so far out of your element you don’t even realize it but I will try one more time. Scientific principles and the scientific method have been in place long before any member of the stihl family crapped in a diaper. If you want your data to be meaningful, you need to follow basic scientific principles. Otherwise it is just what you have shown us: chicken crap. One more time: You cant make chicken crap into chicken soup! End of story. Do not pass go and do not collect $200 dollars. Savy??


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> Were are you getting that 346 number?
> 
> Stock cut times were as follows.
> 
> 026 - 9.13
> 346XP - 8.00
> MS261 - 7.14
> 
> That makes the MS261 22% faster than the 026 and 11% faster than the 346XP.



I understand the wood was inconsistant, from earlier posts in this thread?


----------



## Andyshine77

SawTroll said:


> I understand the wood was inconsistant, from earlier posts in this thread?



Yes but not 11 or 28% so, that's why I couldn't believe the 261 stock was 28% stronger than the 346, but I had my numbers mixed up, it's only 11% stronger, that seem accurate. The 261 is definitely stronger, just not 28% stronger.


----------



## bookerdog

You all know I like my husky saws. I ran a demo 261 saw about 4 months ago. I have put a ton of time in with a 346. I have 4 of the NE and 2 of the OE. The 261 is a stronger saw out of the box stock. Its a nice saw. It doesn't seem to handle as well with its bullfrog shape. The trigger response is not as nice as the 346 as well. This 261 was well broke in to. 
This saw is going to make a great firewood saw IMO. Im sure when both are fully ported they will be really close to one another.


----------



## SawTroll

Andyshine77 said:


> Yes but not 1i or 28% so, that's why I couldn't believe the 261 stock was 28% stronger than the 346, but I had my numbers mixed up, it's only 11% stronger, that seem accurate. The 261 is definitely stronger, just not 28% stronger.



If "stronger" really means faster, it doesn't take much power difference to do that, so that is plausible! 

The word *stronger* doesn't really fit in here at all, as that is not what was "tested".

Other differences may also play a part, and I wonder if the chain was the exact same, or just the same model.....


----------



## edisto

SawTroll said:


> I understand the wood was inconsistant, from earlier posts in this thread?
> 
> 
> Andyshine77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes but not 1i or 28% so, that's why I couldn't believe the 261 stock was 28% stronger than the 346, but I had my numbers mixed up, it's only 11% stronger, that seem accurate. The 261 is definitely stronger, just not 28% stronger.
Click to expand...



According to the numbers Brad gave, the 346 was 10.5% "stronger" on his third cut than on his first cut, and on your fastest cut, the saw was 20.2% "stronger" than it was on Brad's first cut.

That illustrates 2 things...a fair amount of variation, and why translating the times into percentages can be very misleading.


----------



## SawTroll

bookerdog said:


> You all know I like my husky saws. I ran a demo 261 saw about 4 months ago. I have put a ton of time in with a 346. I have 4 of the NE and 2 of the OE. *The 261 is a stronger saw out of the box stock. Its a nice saw. It doesn't seem to handle as well with its bullfrog shape. The trigger response is not as nice as the 346 as well. * This 261 was well broke in to.
> This saw is going to make a great firewood saw IMO. Im sure when both are fully ported they will be really close to one another.



That is exactly how I thought it would be - again, no surprices!


----------



## THALL10326

bookerdog said:


> You all know I like my husky saws. I ran a demo 261 saw about 4 months ago. I have put a ton of time in with a 346. I have 4 of the NE and 2 of the OE. The 261 is a stronger saw out of the box stock. Its a nice saw. It doesn't seem to handle as well with its bullfrog shape. The trigger response is not as nice as the 346 as well. This 261 was well broke in to.
> This saw is going to make a great firewood saw IMO. Im sure when both are fully ported they will be really close to one another.



Booker the court would like to know why you withheld that information all this time. Wait, I see you sig, nevermind, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326

*Psssssssssst Booker*

Like your sig man, hows mine,hahahaha


----------



## jeepyfz450

I cant quite fully understand the handling element arguement. I understand that each saw handles differently. Are we talking limbing, blocking firewood or dropping trees. Are people making mountains out of molehills? I can limb like a mofo with my 026 and cut smaller firewood aswell. Do the 026s 260s and the 261 handle so bad that you cant run them? I mean would you be able to run the husky so much faster because of its handling? 

If you think it handles better thats great but how much better are we talking?


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> If "stronger" really means faster, it doesn't take much power difference to do that, so that is plausible!
> 
> The word *stronger* doesn't really fit in here at all, as that is not what was "tested".
> 
> Other differences may also play a part, and I wonder if the chain was the exact same, or just the same model.....



Stronger and faster. What matters is the 261 is the better saw.

Now where is the new husky competitor???


----------



## bookerdog

THALL10326 said:


> Like your sig man, hows mine,hahahaha



Was told couldn't talk about the demo saw. Big hush hush thing. Anyway my sig is true is yours


----------



## THALL10326

CentaurG2 said:


> Sigh… you are so far out of your element you don’t even realize it but I will try one more time. Scientific principles and the scientific method have been in place long before any member of the stihl family crapped in a diaper. If you want your data to be meaningful, you need to follow basic scientific principles. Otherwise it is just what you have shown us: chicken crap. One more time: You cant make chicken crap into chicken soup! End of story. Do not pass go and do not collect $200 dollars. Savy??



Cent you should play nicer. In that post you sound like you got a load in your diaper, not surprizing though, I've known you to be full of schit 99.9% of the time,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 2000ssm6

jeepyfz450 said:


> I cant quite fully understand the handling element arguement. I understand that each saw handles differently. Are we talking limbing, blocking firewood or dropping trees. Are people making mountains out of molehills? I can limb like a mofo with my 026 and cut smaller firewood aswell. Do the 026s 260s and the 261 handle so bad that you cant run them? I mean would you be able to run the husky so much faster because of its handling?
> 
> If you think it handles better thats great but how much better are we talking?



Basically you have one guy, I won't call any names like "Troll", that is trying to defend the he## out of his beloved 346. He can't find anything else to bring up other than some handling BS. The 026 always handled best IMO while the 346 felt like a nice bucking saw. Now the 261 is here and 2 346 lovers have already stated the weight is of no concearn, which I didn't think was anyway.

It boils down to 6 one way, half dozen the other. Both are great saws.


----------



## 2000ssm6

THALL10326 said:


> Cent you should play nicer. In that post you sound like you got a load in your diaper, not surprizing though, I've known you to be full of schit 99.9% of the time,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



I think he wants another cigar.


----------



## THALL10326

bookerdog said:


> Was told couldn't talk about the demo saw. Big hush hush thing. Anyway my sig is true is yours



Ya dayummm right mine is true, 40 years running baby, be 50 years at the rate we're going this year.

So they told you the samething they tell us, keep quite till it hits the market. I've never understood that. Hell seems to me a company would want fanfare before it hits the market so the product can hit the ground running. Remind me to give em a call bout that.

How ya feeling Booker, you over those health issues you had, I hope so, I'm looking for someone to spar with, ya game now. Now if your not up to it just yet you let me know, otherwsie bring it on baby, show daddy whatcha got, make my day, bring it. Lets see, what else can I say to getcha fired up, oh I got it, man that 261 is beauty isn't, power, speed, smooth, great filtration, gas miser, the whole package and no dayumm ugly grey sprocket cover,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## SawTroll

jeepyfz450 said:


> I cant quite fully understand the handling element arguement. I understand that each saw handles differently. Are we talking limbing, blocking firewood or dropping trees. Are people making mountains out of molehills? I can limb like a mofo with my 026 and cut smaller firewood aswell. Do the 026s 260s and the 261 handle so bad that you cant run them? I mean would you be able to run the husky so much faster because of its handling?
> 
> If you think it handles better thats great but how much better are we talking?



If you can't detect the difference, that is your problem - the MS260 is partly "saved" by its light weight, but the 50cc Dolmars and apparently the MS261 aren't! 
Then, if you are used to much larger saws, and not to 50cc ones, they all will feel like a big improvement regarding handling - so you may not feel the difference between them as easily.


----------



## THALL10326

2000ssm6 said:


> I think he wants another cigar.



Remove the diaper, he'll find it,LOLOL


----------



## jeepyfz450

SawTroll said:


> If you can't detect the difference, that is your problem - the MS260 is partly "saved" by its light weight, but the 50cc Dolmars and apparently the MS261 aren't!
> Then, if you are used to much larger saws, and not to 50cc ones, they all will feel like a big improvement regarding handling - so you may not feel the difference between them as easily.



i never said i couldnt detect a difference....... they all handle much differently i just have a hard time believing it is that big of a deal. I think i could adapt my cutting style to just about any newer saw and make it work. 

not trying to offend anyone but i think some people just pickup saws and run them to get wood cut. other people run saws worrying about the small things that most dont even notice.


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> If you can't detect the difference, that is your problem



The only one with a problem here is you. Your problem is you can't accept the 261 handles just as good, if not better than the 346.

Go to the first page and read Brad's, Andre's, and Nic's comments.


----------



## bookerdog

THALL10326 said:


> Ya dayummm right mine is true, 40 years running baby, be 50 years at the rate we're going this year.
> 
> So they told you the samething they tell us, keep quite till it hits the market. I've never understood that. Hell seems to me a company would want fanfare before it hits the market so the product can hit the ground running. Remind me to give em a call bout that.
> 
> How ya feeling Booker, you over those health issues you had, I hope so, I'm looking for someone to spar with, ya game now. Now if your not up to it just yet you let me know, otherwsie bring it on baby, show daddy whatcha got, make my day, bring it. Lets see, what else can I say to getcha fired up, oh I got it, man that 261 is beauty isn't, power, speed, smooth, great filtration, gas miser, the whole package and no dayumm ugly grey sprocket cover,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



The 261 is great if you like bullfrogs. They sure like them big butts over at steal. Wal mart is going to catch ya tommie boy. You steal guys are just like Micky Ds. Soon you can drive through and pick up a good case of the runs like micky Ds.


----------



## bookerdog

THALL10326 said:


> So they told you the samething they tell us, keep quite till it hits the market. I've never understood that. Hell seems to me a company would want fanfare before it hits the market so the product can hit the ground running. Remind me to give em a call bout that.
> 
> :



I really don't get it to tell you the truth. They could of had the steal heads lathered up to buy one as soon as they hit the shelves.


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> Basically you have one guy, I won't call any names like "Troll", that is trying to defend the he## out of his beloved 346. ......



Pure BS - what is the case is that my predictions on the MS261 has been proven true - no more, no less! 

Looks like it is exactly what I predicted it would be, based on pics and specs only - a strong 50cc saw, with a weakness regarding bulk and handling!


----------



## 2000ssm6

bookerdog said:


> The 261 is great if you like bullfrogs. They sure like them big butts over at steal. Wal mart is going to catch ya tommie boy. You steal guys are just like Micky Ds. Soon you can drive through and pick up a good case of the runs like micky Ds.



I take is you didn't like the sig, LOLOLOL. Stihl sells enough through their 8000 dealers, no Micky Ds, Blowes, Home crapo or Wally world needed.


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> Pure BS - what is the case is that my predictions on the MS261 has been proven true - no more, no less!
> 
> Looks like it is exactly what I predicted it would be, based on pics and specs only - a strong 50cc saw, with a weakness regarding bulk and handling!



Right.......the only weakness seems to be the 346. _Maybe_ the 346's replacement will be better.


----------



## FATGUY

Did I mention the 261 is the new king of 50cc saws?


----------



## bookerdog

2000ssm6 said:


> I take is you didn't like the sig, LOLOLOL. Stihl sells enough through their 8000 dealers, no Micky Ds, Blowes, Home crapo or Wally world needed.



You guys are right there with micky ds and wal mart. Number 1 in crap food Number 1 in crap retail and number one in crap power equi sales. Good for you.


----------



## bookerdog

FATGUY said:


> Did I mention the 261 is the new king of 50cc saws?



The 261 hasn't proved it can beat brads ported 346.


----------



## 2000ssm6

bookerdog said:


> You guys are right there with micky ds and wal mart. Number 1 in crap food Number 1 in crap retail and number one in crap power equi sales. Good for you.



LOL, who needs the big box stores and stihl can't compete?


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> The only one with a problem here is you. Your problem is you can't accept the 261 handles just as good, if not better than the 346.
> 
> Go to the first page and read Brad's, Andre's, and Nic's comments.



Another pure BS post, those statements just were part of the initial exitement, and are forgotten by all but you by now! :greenchainsaw:


----------



## 2000ssm6

bookerdog said:


> The 261 hasn't proved it can beat brads ported 346.



Doesn't need to, it already proved to have more power stock. Saws at the dealer aren't sold ported ya know....


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> Another pure BS post, those statements just were part of the initial exitement, and are forgotten by all but you by now! :greenchainsaw:



, I bet the sky isn't blue either right? You read what you like but don't leave out the facts.


----------



## FATGUY

bookerdog said:


> The 261 hasn't proved it can beat brads ported 346.



very true, and beating that particular 346 is a tall order for any non-full race ported 50cc saw. taht being said, more people will run them stock or with a mm than with them being ported.


----------



## chopperfreak2k1

CentaurG2 said:


> No contest in that race. In the real world, my 5100 is faster than either my oe or ne346xp and statistically on par with my now stock ms361. Too bad the 5100 handles like ruger gold label and the 346xp handles like a A.H Fox. So how long do you figure it will be before stihl can poop out another entry into the pro 50cc market?? One maybe two decades??



when they sell as well as they do, why spend all the money to R&D a new saw?


----------



## bookerdog

2000ssm6 said:


> Doesn't need to, it already proved to have more power stock. Saws at the dealer aren't sold ported ya know....



Tell that to the guy that spent big money trying to get his 026 to compete with a 346. LMAO


----------



## SawTroll

FATGUY said:


> Did I mention the 261 is the new king of 50cc saws?



How can it be, without handling really well in the woods - if that wasn't the main issue, I see no point with a 50cc pro saw in the first place!


----------



## FATGUY

SawTroll said:


> How can it be, without handling really well in the woods - if that wasn't the main issue, I see no point with a 50cc pro saw in the first place!



Niko my friend, you have not even held the saw in your hands? How can you possibly have an opinion?


----------



## jeepyfz450

SawTroll said:


> How can it be, without handling really well in the woods - if that wasn't the main issue, I see no point with a 50cc pro saw in the first place!



how would you define handling really well in the woods? side by side limbing race? 
are you saying it doesnt handle well for reaching over the tree stem or reaching out far what ecactly are you talking about?

saying it doesnt handle well is just your opinion. Others might say it handles perfect.


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> , I bet the sky isn't blue either right? You read what you like but don't leave out the facts.




Looks like you "forgot" to read some of the posts here......:monkey:


----------



## hori

blsnelling said:


> Once MMd, the times were:
> 
> MS261 - 6.29
> 346XP - 8.02
> 
> Here the MS261 is 22% faster than the 346XP.



thank you Brad for your time doing this and also your insight. Even better is the sh*t storm that will follow from team husky..lmao .

you have helped alot of people on the fence for a new firewood saw. That what its all about


----------



## SawTroll

FATGUY said:


> Niko my friend, you have not even held the saw in your hands? How can you possibly have an opinion?



It is easy to see from how the innards of the saw is laid out - it just can't balance right sideways, and the bar is too far from the weight axis.

Actually it is simple, but I can post it a hundred times, and those that don't want to understand it (or to admit it) never will.


----------



## Andyshine77

2000ssm6 said:


> The only one with a problem here is you. Your problem is you can't accept the 261 handles just as good, if not better than the 346.
> 
> Go to the first page and read Brad's, Andre's, and Nic's comments.



That's not what I said, I said it was good, better than other Stihl's.


----------



## 2000ssm6

SawTroll said:


> Looks like you "forgot" to read some of the posts here......:monkey:



And you forgot how they commented on how the saw "handled", LOL. Here is to hoping the new 50cc husky will be as good!


----------



## Andyshine77

FATGUY said:


> Niko my friend, you have not even held the saw in your hands? How can you possibly have an opinion?



Because he has more knowledge about saw in his little finger than you do in your whole body!:check:


----------



## jeepyfz450

i guess i understand now. You CANT run the saw. I can for sure with no problems. 

Its like a disability and it makes sense now everyone can see why you dislike stihls. I would hate a saw i couldnt run too.


----------



## 2000ssm6

bookerdog said:


> Tell that to the guy that spent big money trying to get his 026 to compete with a 346. LMAO



You got to pay to play. It would take mighty stout 346 to run with mine. 

I almost want to send my 261 off as soon as it gets here just to see what can be had. I must run it in stock form first though....


----------



## 2000ssm6

jeepyfz450 said:


> You CANT run the saw.



If he did, the 346 would be sold the next day. Being a blind husky man, he can't have that!


----------



## Trigger-Time

BloodOnTheIce said:


> My Stihl distributor doesn't have any available yet, trust me I've asked, begged, pleaded. They won't ship any unit the 260's are gone, and eta is still January, I asked yesterday.
> 
> Driving to my distributor and picking one up isn't an option, it's between 8-10 hours each way to their place in CT.



Same as my dealer, but was told a tid-bit today and I will wait till after
Jan 1 before I buy anything Stihl. 



TT


----------



## THALL10326

bookerdog said:


> The 261 is great if you like bullfrogs. They sure like them big butts over at steal. Wal mart is going to catch ya tommie boy. You steal guys are just like Micky Ds. Soon you can drive through and pick up a good case of the runs like micky Ds.



I think what your referring to there Booker is already done by the worlds largest producer. I was at the mall the other day and they actually got a Mc-a-dee's in there. Bought me a sundie and went to Sears, its in there too but no Stihls on their shelves, only saws from the worlds largest producer,hahaha


----------



## SawTroll

2000ssm6 said:


> And you forgot how they commented on how the saw "handled", LOL. Here is to hoping the new 50cc husky will be as good!



Well, looks like you prefere the "first impression" posts, made without comparing it to anything, to the more matured later ones....:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## CentaurG2

THALL10326 said:


> Cent you should play nicer. In that post you sound like you got a load in your diaper, not surprizing though, I've known you to be full of schit 99.9% of the time,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Thomas! It is amazing the number of little worms that are attracted to this compost pile. Let me guess, you ran out of guitar strings. 

I did not make up the hypothesis, scientific principle or scientific method of testing but if Bradley wants to start quoting “statistically significant numbers” that a rational human will believe, he does need to, at least, attempt to follow the basic scientific method of testing. 

Now Bradley has a choice, he can man up and do what it takes to do the proper experiments to compare an ms261 to a 346xp or he can let it go. Right now it looks like Bradley has an orange and white bias and he had already predetermined that the ms261 would beat the 346xp before he even started testing. Sup to him. This is his war, not mine or yours or anyone else’s. He is the one that seems to have something to prove here. 

So tell me, in your opinion,as a stihl dealer who has dealt with dyed in the wool stihl customers, what do you think he will do??


----------



## chopperfreak2k1

THALL10326 said:


> I think what your referring to there Booker is already done by the worlds largest producer. I was at the mall the other day and they actually got a Mc-a-dee's in there. Bought me a sundie and went to Sears, its in there too but no Stihls on their shelves, only saws from the worlds largest producer,hahaha



this is the best burn i have read in a long time!


----------



## Tzed250

.


You guys get off of Niko's back. He wants a saw that is great for limbing. The 346 is great for that with mass centralization second to none. 

The problem is that for Niko limbing is knocking toothpics off of a broomhandle. 

Different conditions call for different setups. That is why PNW saws got full wraps, Eastern saws got short bars with big engines, and Southeastern saws got bow guides. 

Limbing in West Virginia means cutting the tops off of the stems using your falling saw, most likely a MS460 or 660. Never seen anyone carry a "limbing" saw. 

For me, choosing the slower saw because you can juggle it is a move I would find hard to make. 


.


----------



## Trigger-Time

You guys talking % again

If you have 5 sec. add 40% that = 7 sec.

Take 7 sec. then subtract 28.57% that = 5.0001 sec.

So it really matters if you add or subtract.




TT


----------



## SawTroll

THALL10326 said:


> I think what your referring to there Booker is already done by the . I was at the mall the other day and they actually got a Mc-a-dee's in there. Bought me a sundie and went to Sears, its in there too but no Stihls on their shelves, only saws from the worlds largest producer,hahaha



The "problem" with that is two-fold; Most important, Stihl seem to have "stiffened" in a pattern regarding how they make their "strato" saws, just making the same basic design in different sizes, without improving much - just details. Husky is moving forward a lot more rapidly.

Second, it is easy to dispute the "worlds largest producer" statement, as it depends on how you define it - it is easy to find a different answer!


----------



## SawTroll

Tzed250 said:


> .....
> 
> The problem is that for Niko limbing is knocking toothpics off of a broomhandle. ......



Not really, but it isn't large oaks with two foot "limbs" either!


----------



## Trigger-Time

Yes Husky is moving forward, I was at my Stihl/Husky dealer today.
Man wanted a bigger Husky saw, dealer said I can't get any now
as Huskys has used up all of their EPA credits this year. It will be next
year before we can get any bigger husky saws.



TT


----------



## THALL10326

CentaurG2 said:


> Thomas! It is amazing the number of little worms that are attracted to this compost pile. Let me guess, you ran out of guitar strings.
> 
> I did not make up the hypothesis, scientific principle or scientific method of testing but if Bradley wants to start quoting “statistically significant numbers” that a rational human will believe, he does need to, at least, attempt to follow the basic scientific method of testing.
> 
> Now Bradley has a choice, he can man up and do what it takes to do the proper experiments to compare an ms261 to a 346xp or he can let it go. Right now it looks like Bradley has an orange and white bias and he had already predetermined that the ms261 would beat the 346xp before he even started testing. Sup to him. This is his war, not mine or yours or anyone else’s. He is the one that seems to have something to prove here.
> 
> So tell me, in your opinion,as a stihl dealer who has dealt with dyed in the wool stihl customers, what do you think he will do??



Cent your being a ole sour puss. Booker has even said it is abit faster out the box than the 346. Good enuff for me considering ole Booker is a Husky man through and through. Me, I like the 346, I own one. If the 261 is abit faster in the cut so be it, I will still like the 346. However at the rack yes I will push the 261, remember I don't sell Husky. This testing your referring to, the scientific approach, lay it on us. Get some saws and start a thread, I'm all eyes and ears. You can't condemn what you won't do yourself. Asking someone to do something you won't do yourself isn't right so hop to it.


----------



## blsnelling

2000ssm6 said:


> the 261 handles just as good, if not better than the 346.


No way on that. That honor definately goes to the 346.


----------



## blsnelling

Jn


CentaurG2 said:


> Thomas! It is amazing the number of little worms that are attracted to this compost pile. Let me guess, you ran out of guitar strings.
> 
> I did not make up the hypothesis, scientific principle or scientific method of testing but if Bradley wants to start quoting “statistically significant numbers” that a rational human will believe, he does need to, at least, attempt to follow the basic scientific method of testing.
> 
> Now Bradley has a choice, he can man up and do what it takes to do the proper experiments to compare an ms261 to a 346xp or he can let it go. Right now it looks like Bradley has an orange and white bias and he had already predetermined that the ms261 would beat the 346xp before he even started testing. Sup to him. This is his war, not mine or yours or anyone else’s. He is the one that seems to have something to prove here.
> 
> So tell me, in your opinion,as a stihl dealer who has dealt with dyed in the wool stihl customers, what do you think he will do??


You know, it must be real miserable living in your skin. I'd hate to think I felt so ugly all the time. The fact of the matter is that I've done exactly what I set out to do. If you don't like it, then don't let the door hit you in the back. And as far as me being Stihl biased and letting that influence my testing, then I guess you don't follow the forum very closely. NO ONE has been a bigger proponent of the 346 than me. I LOVE my 346! 

Now go take your ugly self somewhere else where you can enjoy yourself.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

$50 says this thread reaches more posts than the 5 Word Thread by the end of the year.


----------



## dingeryote

Trigger-Time said:


> Yes Husky is moving forward, I was at my Stihl/Husky dealer today.
> Man wanted a bigger Husky saw, dealer said I can't get any now
> as Huskys has used up all of their EPA credits this year. It will be next
> year before we can get any bigger husky saws.
> 
> 
> 
> TT



What?

"Used up all thier EPA credits"?

Sounds more like a dealer trying to force the sale of something with a higher margin, and lying his ass off.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## dingeryote

WoodChucker81 said:


> $50 says this thread reaches more posts than the 5 Word Thread by the end of the year.



Geeee do ya think so, I mean that would take a lot of posts...

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## Tzed250

blsnelling said:


> Jn
> You know, it must be real miserable living in your skin. I'd hate to think I felt so ugly all the time. The fact of the matter is that I've done exactly what I set out to do. If you don't like it, then don't let the door hit you in the back. And as far as me being Stihl biased and letting that influence my testing, then I guess you don't follow the forum very closely. NO ONE has been a bigger proponent of the 346 than me. I LOVE my 346!
> 
> Now go take your ugly self somewhere else where you can enjoy yourself.





Brad....


Tell us how you really feel...


.


----------



## blsnelling

Tzed250 said:


> Brad....
> 
> 
> Tell us how you really feel...
> 
> 
> .


Lol


----------



## WoodChuck'r

dingeryote said:


> Geeee do ya think so, I mean that would take a lot of posts...
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Feels like we're more than halfway there.....


----------



## Trigger-Time

dingeryote said:


> What?
> 
> "Used up all thier EPA credits"?
> 
> Sounds more like a dealer trying to force the sale of something with a higher margin, and lying his ass off.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



It happens with Husky about every year, that why the 372 was on and off again in US for years.

Another thing Dingeryote I have been dealing with this man for 12 years
and have never known him to lie bout anything.


TT


----------



## SawTroll

Tzed250 said:


> Brad....
> 
> 
> Tell us how you really feel...
> 
> 
> .




He did a great job, despite the wood was inconsistant!


----------



## CentaurG2

THALL10326 said:


> Cent your being a ole sour puss. Booker has even said it is abit faster out the box than the 346. Good enuff for me considering ole Booker is a Husky man through and through. Me, I like the 346, I own one. If the 261 is abit faster in the cut so be it, I will still like the 346. However at the rack yes I will push the 261, remember I don't sell Husky. This testing your referring to, the scientific approach, lay it on us. Get some saws and start a thread, I'm all eyes and ears. You can't condemn what you won't do yourself. Asking someone to do something you won't do yourself isn't right so hop to it.



Thomas, your cover fire for a fellow stihl O file is admirable but you are so far out of your league on this subject, you don’t even know what you are aiming at. Go home before you get hurt.


----------



## SawTroll

Trigger-Time said:


> It happens with Husky about every year, that why the 372 was on and off again in US for years. ....



That mostly happened a few years ago, as far as I know!


----------



## CentaurG2

blsnelling said:


> Jn
> You know, it must be real miserable living in your skin. I'd hate to think I felt so ugly all the time. The fact of the matter is that I've done exactly what I set out to do. If you don't like it, then don't let the door hit you in the back. And as far as me being Stihl biased and letting that influence my testing, then I guess you don't follow the forum very closely. NO ONE has been a bigger proponent of the 346 than me. I LOVE my 346!
> 
> Now go take your ugly self somewhere else where you can enjoy yourself.



Brad, to quote “significant numbers” you need to do real testing. To remove the variables from testing and do real science is very hard. The cut times you showed between all of the saws, from the ms260, the 346xp and the ms261 would probably show “no significant difference” under a statistical analysis program and a bell curve. 

Seems to me, based on previous posts, you had predetermined that the ms261 would be the best thing since slice bread even if you had to gut it and put a carb on it. If I am wrong, I will apologize in advance. 

Not my business to question how or why you choose to modify saws but I will question you posting 10 or 200% difference from saw to saw on such flimsy data. I felt it was stronger or I felt it was faster is fine. Subjective. Subjective is good and hard to argue with. Numbers get you into trouble before you even get started. Again I think overall you did a great job and personally I don’t care a whiff what saw does this or that. All I care about is which one makes me the most money. I like my skin and dont change my spots. Hard, but that is what it takes to be a real man.


----------



## dingeryote

Trigger-Time said:


> It happens with Husky about every year, that why the 372 was on and off again in US for years.
> 
> Another thing Dingeryote I have been dealing with this man for 12 years
> and have never known him to lie bout anything.
> 
> 
> TT



I'll take your word he ain't lying, but that is an awfull fishy story, seeing as how others aren't having issues getting saws.
Maybe it's a distributor issue in the end..who knows.

The whole Idea makes me want to mix up some 20:1 and run the 395 REALLY rich though. LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## Trigger-Time

dingeryote said:


> I'll take your word he ain't lying, but that is an awfull fishy story, seeing as how others aren't having issues getting saws.
> Maybe it's a distributor issue in the end..who knows.
> 
> The whole Idea makes me want to mix up some 20:1 and run the 395 REALLY rich though. LOL!!
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



From what I understand the EPA credits is why we see 346 E-tech
and the non E-tech 346's. When Husky is running low on EPA credits
they ship E-tech to U.S.



TT


----------



## Philbert

*Spoke to Darin . . .*

Starting Monday, this website will officially be known as "The MS261 is here!! Site". 'Arborist Site' will just be one of the sub-forums.

Philbert


----------



## SawTroll

Trigger-Time said:


> From what I understand the EPA credits is why we see 346 E-tech
> and the non E-tech 346's. When Husky is running low on EPA credits
> they ship E-tech to U.S.
> 
> 
> 
> TT



That is true, as far as I know!


----------



## Trigger-Time

SawTroll said:


> That is true, as far as I know!



And I would say most people don't know the diff between the E and non E.

IMO the people that end up with the E 346's are getting cheated.



TT


----------



## brncreeper

Almost as bad as cheating people with low quality cylinders and not telling them.


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

Philbert said:


> Starting Monday, this website will officially be known as "The MS261 is here!! Site". 'Arborist Site' will just be one of the sub-forums.
> 
> Philbert



Very funny post man!!!!!!.....


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> Were are you getting that 346 number?
> 
> Stock cut times were as follows.
> 
> 026 - 9.13
> 346XP - 8.00
> MS261 - 7.14
> 
> That makes the MS261 22% faster than the 026 and 11% faster than the 346XP.





blsnelling said:


> Once MMd, the times were:
> 
> MS261 - 6.29
> 346XP - 8.02
> 
> Here the MS261 is 22% faster than the 346XP.



Hmmm, don't look right to me? So what your saying Brad is when you Muffler modded the 346 it got slower? Your numbers really arn't adding up. See what everybody is saying. 

It ain't over till the fat lady sings!! And Brad ain't FAT, and I don't think he can sing. 

That wood is way to inconsistent to make any claims on any saw being faster or slower.


----------



## Trigger-Time

brncreeper said:


> Almost as bad as cheating people with low quality cylinders and not telling them.



Yep, that why Stihl's on avg will have more PSI than huskys.
But husky is starting to use 2 rings on some of their saws.

Be it Stihl or husky I would not buy a saw that I had to go buy a new muffler
and most times a coil to get it to run right. 



TT


----------



## FATGUY

Andyshine77 said:


> Because he has more knowledge about saw in his little finger than you do in your whole body!:check:



I agree, Sawtroll may be the greatest asset on AS,Hell, his opinion weighs a ton for me. However, he's still never run one.....


----------



## FATGUY

parrisw said:


> Hmmm, don't look right to me? So what your saying Brad is when you Muffler modded the 346 it got slower? Your numbers really arn't adding up. See what everybody is saying.
> 
> It ain't over till the fat lady sings!! *And Brad ain't FAT*, and I don't think he can sing.
> 
> That wood is way to inconsistent to make any claims on any saw being faster or slower.



I am!:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## wendell

FATGUY said:


> I am!:biggrinbounce2:



+1


----------



## nmurph

blsnelling said:


> By what, 2.6 oz? I don't have a weight on a OE 346, but it's lighter than the NE 346. As far as I'm concerned, that nullifies the claim to fame of the 026 being so much lighter.



i got two OE's the other day. i have pulled the cylinders, but i can toss the parts on a scale in a heap!!!!


in my earlier post i was asking if the MM 346 was a cat. i am assuming it was.


----------



## parrisw

FATGUY said:


> I am!:biggrinbounce2:



Are you a lady? And can you sing?


----------



## Andyshine77

So what oil ratio do you guys run?:hmm3grin2orange::jester::angel::computer:


----------



## Andyshine77

parrisw said:


> Are you a lady? And can you sing?



Yes and yes, he can hit some pretty high notes.


----------



## parrisw

Andyshine77 said:


> Yes and yes, he can hit some pretty high notes.



ha ha. 

What do you think of the times that I quoted above? How does that work?


----------



## fearofpavement

Well, I have never read a forum post on any website that had so much bs on it. Dozens of experts about the MS261 that have not only never cut with it, they have never even seen one (other than a digital image). I have not had one in my hands so I won't comment on its handling. I have never made a cut with it so I won't comment on its speed. I also won't disparage the opinions or data provided by those that have cut with it since I have absolutely nothing except opinion to counter their data and observations. So my take on this whole situation is if you are anticipating getting one of these, comment on that. Or say stuff like it may not be as great as they advertised or whatever but please don't speak in a factual way about something you have no direct experience with. ie, if you haven't cut with the saw, shut up already.


----------



## Andyshine77

Not really sure, I'm not a numbers guy. 

At the end of the day it looks like the 261 is a little faster stock, and with the mods Brad did to the 261 it's likely faster than most modded 346's as well. This really isn't surprising as most strato saws seem to run strong for their displacement.


----------



## nmurph

blsnelling said:


> No way on that. That honor definately goes to the 346.



ouch..........from an avowed stihl guy. thanks for the honesty brad.


----------



## nmurph

dingeryote said:


> What?
> 
> "Used up all thier EPA credits"?
> 
> Sounds more like a dealer trying to force the sale of something with a higher margin, and lying his ass off.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



agreed! or something he had in stock vs having to order something, and chancing that the buyer might get cold-feet and back out.


----------



## parrisw

Andyshine77 said:


> Not really sure, I'm not a numbers guy.
> 
> At the end of the day it looks like the 261 is a little faster stock, and with the mods Brad did to the 261 it's likely faster than most modded 346's as well. This really isn't surprising as most strato saws seem to run strong for their displacement.



Naa, maybe you missed the point. I'm not a numbers guy either. 

He had stock 346 at 8.00 and MM346 at 8.02, so it got slower with a MM. As to the 261 gained almost a full second with a MM.


----------



## blsnelling

nmurph said:


> ouch..........from an avowed stihl guy. thanks for the honesty brad.



I've pushed the 346 just about as hard as anyone. It's an awesome saw!


----------



## Andyshine77

parrisw said:


> Naa, maybe you missed the point. I'm not a numbers guy either.
> 
> He had stock 346 at 8.00 and MM346 at 8.02, so it got slower with a MM. As to the 261 gained almost a full second with a MM.



I did miss it. Yes .2 is nothing and yes the wood was hard to get reliable times in.


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> I've pushed the 346 just about as hard as anyone. It's an awesome saw!



How awesome is it?:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## FATGUY

Andyshine77 said:


> How awesome is it?:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



just a litttle less awesome than the 261, #####....


----------



## Andyshine77

FATGUY said:


> just a litttle less awesome than the 261, #####....



Now there you go again jumping the gun.:notrolls2:


----------



## dingeryote

Andyshine77 said:


> So what oil ratio do you guys run?:hmm3grin2orange::jester::angel::computer:



OHHELLNO you didn't!!!!!

We got eveything but who the #### shot Kennedy goin' on here, and you pull that? 


GAAAAAAARRRRYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## FATGUY

Andyshine77 said:


> Now there you go again jumping the gun.:notrolls2:



yeah well, my wife says I jump the gun quicker than anyone in our neighborhood.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Andyshine77

:hmm3grin2orange: All I know is I run 32:1


----------



## Andyshine77

FATGUY said:


> yeah well, my wife says I jump the gun quicker than anyone in our neighborhood.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



I live in your neighborhood, and I know your wife.


----------



## FATGUY

Andyshine77 said:


> :hmm3grin2orange: All I know is I run 32:1



:biggrinbounce2::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## dingeryote

Just curious, and fully intending to be a complete pain in the ass, but
has anyone run the power to weight ratio numbers on the 261vs346ne?

Stock of course, not after hogging 3lb's of useless strato out of things, and in english. Not them fuzzy foreign kilowatts. Illicit drugs are measured in Kilos and lightbulbs in Watts, neither of which apply to saws.:hmm3grin2orange:

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## dingeryote

Andyshine77 said:


> :hmm3grin2orange: All I know is I run 32:1



Sure, plead the 5th...I would too.:hmm3grin2orange:

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## Andyshine77

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x0e3SWEet60?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x0e3SWEet60?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## FATGUY

Andyshine77 said:


> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x0e3SWEet60?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x0e3SWEet60?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>



no, it's Gin.... I don't wanna sit down....


----------



## Andyshine77

Nik could we derail this poor thread anymore?:computer:


----------



## wendell

Andyshine77 said:


> Nik could we derail this poor thread anymore?:computer:



Probably but please stop now. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## TreePointer

Anybody have a link for the Bailey's 261 BB kit?


----------



## dingeryote

TreePointer said:


> Anybody have a link for the Bailey's 261 BB kit?




No kidding.
The Chineese knock off artists should have a 261 Clone on alibabba any time now.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## jeepyfz450

this thread is so great...... the funny part is that at the end of the day the stihl guys are gonna keep running stihls and the husky guys are gonna keep running huskys. its all about the "Title" KING OF THE 50CC CLASS.......

Once the true king is determined the owners of said saw should get a plaque and a certificate of authenticity. they can put it on the mantle and beat off to it every night. lol


----------



## RandyMac

jeepyfz450 said:


> this thread is so great...... the funny part is that at the end of the day the stihl guys are gonna keep running stihls and the husky guys are gonna keep running huskys. its all about the "Title" KING OF THE 50CC CLASS.......
> 
> Once the true king is determined the owners of said saw should get a plaque and a certificate of authenticity. they can put it on the mantle and beat off to it every night. lol



*LMAO!!!!!!*

Much ado about nothing.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

Figured I'd bump this thread to the top justincase someone missed it. 

I'd hate for all of the terribly important info in this amazing priceless thread go to waste.


----------



## RandyMac

WoodChucker81 said:


> Figured I'd bump this thread to the top justincase someone missed it.
> 
> I'd hate for all of the terribly important info in this amazing priceless thread go to waste.



Thank you, may your days be full of favorable rep.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

Look at how many people are at the bottom lurking and watching this ridiculous thread.

Don't you inept people have wood to cut and chainsaws to run??


----------



## WoodChuck'r

RandyMac said:


> Thank you, may your days be full of favorable rep.



Why thanks RM!! 

Just tryin' to help everyone out!


----------



## RandyMac

They are waiting for that certificate and a clean hankie.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

This thread is insane. 

It somehow reminds me of the broken fins thread - there's a bunch of little girls watching at the bottom who are too afraid to post.


----------



## RandyMac

BaaaaBaaaa


----------



## WoodChuck'r

I think it's safe to say that there are more people interested in this thread than there were people at the midnight launches last Monday night for Call of Duty Black Ops.


----------



## RandyMac

It only became interesting when jeepyfz450 posted.


----------



## MCW

WoodChucker81 said:


> Don't you inept people have wood to cut and chainsaws to run??



I'm not inept, it's midnight in Australia 



I can't believe how many people have posted on this thread though, it's insane to the point of me unsubscribing. I honestly can't read fast enough...


----------



## RandyMac

MCW said:


> I'm not inept, it's midnight in Australia
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe how many people have posted on this thread though, it's insane to the point of me unsubscribing. I honestly can't read fast enough...



Get out the candles man!


----------



## robfromaz1977

Trigger-Time said:


> Yep, that why Stihl's on avg will have more PSI than huskys.
> But husky is starting to use 2 rings on some of their saws.
> 
> 
> 
> TT



What do you consider starting when you say that? My 11 year old 371 has 2 rings. My old mans 480 thats almost older than me has 2 rings.


----------



## MCW

RandyMac said:


> Get out the candles man!



Yeah well Brad seems to have been doing a lot of midnight cutting by torchlight lately


----------



## WoodChuck'r

Speaking of which......


I was at the midnight launch at a local GameStop. I frikkin' stood in line for over 4hrs fo dat ####. It was worth it.


I wonder how many awesome members from this site are camping out at their Stihl dealer now waiting for the first shipment of 261's to show up.


----------



## RandyMac

WoodChucker81 said:


> Speaking of which......
> 
> 
> I was at the midnight launch at a local GameStop. I frikkin' stood in line for over 4hrs fo dat ####. It was worth it.
> 
> 
> I wonder how many awesome members from this site are camping out at their Stihl dealer now waiting for the first shipment of 261's to show up.



Gosh, are they going to have searchlights and live music?


----------



## Trigger-Time

robfromaz1977 said:


> What do you consider starting when you say that? My 11 year old 371 has 2 rings. My old mans 480 thats almost older than me has 2 rings.



Older huskys had 2 rings, then alot of their saws went too 1 ring
and now some have went back too 2 rings. This was from me tearing down
a boatload of husky saws and selling them for parts.




TT


----------



## WoodChuck'r

RandyMac said:


> Gosh, are they going to have searchlights and live music?



Like DUH!!

It's the 261 dude like totally everyone is gonna be there. I paid $3600 for two tickets. The unveiling/release of the MS261 is bigger than the MTV VMA's. It's gonna hosted by Shia LaBeouf. I think there's gonna be an appearance from Kanye West, Rihanna, and Eminem. Lady GaGa is gonna be there too.

It's on tonight at 8:00pm and EVERYONE is gonna watch it - this is the MS261, it's bigger than American Idol. 

Will I see you there? Or didn't you get tickets..... I heard Ticket Master sold out of 80,000+ tickets in under two minutes.


----------



## THALL10326

CentaurG2 said:


> Thomas, your cover fire for a fellow stihl O file is admirable but you are so far out of your league on this subject, you don’t even know what you are aiming at. Go home before you get hurt.



Funny. Cent it do appear your having a tuff time accepting the 261 runs pretty good. You also spoke of bias earlier, that's funny too. You can't hardly make a post without a little slur or ding againist Stihl, its a habit of yours, your very predictable. That explains your thoughts on the 261 more so than the testing approach you insist should be done. What your aiming at is the same ole BS you always aim at and nothing more. Me tant going home or getting hurt because I'm smarter than the average tree hack, remember Cent I make my living off guys like you. I'm used to alot of BS artists like yourself, hot air is cheap Cent, takes money to ride the train. You getting on or blowing smoke, lets see your testing method, spare me the hot air,


----------



## cpr




----------



## THALL10326

cpr said:


>




 Will I get beat up, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## rbtree

bcorradi said:


> Hey rbtree - nice to see you posting again. I suppose your getting excited for skiing. Make sure to share some of your amazing photography when you get a chance.




Thanks Brad. I will surely try. I have a full pass to two of the very best and gnarliest ski areas around this year.....got minor surgery to repair a work damaged knee and the other knee has its problem gone away...so I'll be turning and burning this season for sure beats the 4 total days I skiied the last two years!!..now if La nina would kick in and pile us up some white stuff!!


And two new pro Canon SLR's!!!


----------



## WoodChuck'r

So who else bought their tickets to the show??


----------



## litefoot

jeepyfz450 said:


> this thread is so great...... the funny part is that at the end of the day the stihl guys are gonna keep running stihls and the husky guys are gonna keep running huskys



I think that is mostly true, but every so often, a saw comes along that isn't your "brand" that you just can't ignore, and you are forced to admit is light years better than the home team. I'm thinking of the Dolmar 7900, Stihl 660and Husky 262 (in its day) and lately (or should I say, the late) 346NE. Everyone likes to see the home team beat down the visitor. Unfortunately for the Husky crowd, the 346NE won't dominate anymore, but it's still a dang good unit.


----------



## blsnelling

The verdict is in. Vids uploading now


----------



## blsnelling

I know these numbers are far from perfectly accurate, but it's the only thing I have to compare. So take it or leave it. The MS261 is 14% faster than this new 346XP. I also found that a 7-pin rim is significatnly faster in this hard Oak with this chain.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cyOPbMZEDlE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cyOPbMZEDlE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



Here is my personal 346XP against the MS261. They're dead even.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/M4J3254FU_I?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/M4J3254FU_I?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


Here all three are with 7-pin rims. My personal 346XP was <2% faster than the MS261. Again, virtually identical, especially considering the inconsistency of this wood.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/21sHdlNzdNk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/21sHdlNzdNk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


While power goes to the MS261, handling and throttle response go to the 346XP. Throttle response and handling are good on the MS261, but just not quite up to the standard that the 346XP sets. Out of the box, or with a muffler mod, there is a significant power difference with the MS261. That power difference is maintained after porting both as well. These are both awesome saws. That's all there is to it. There will always be brand wars, and most all of us will have our favorites, but the bottom line is, you can't go wrong with either one of these saws.

That's it. I'm done with this testing. I get into these things and start wondering why I put myself through all this work, lol. It's been fun, but I'm glad it's done!


----------



## cpr

Props to you Brad. I love seeing the results, but showing us how you did it is even better.


----------



## HARRY BARKER




----------



## porsche965

As good as it can get in a back yard not being Scientific.

Good job Brad. :greenchainsaw:


----------



## jeepyfz450

great thread i appreciate the testing very much. If more people put time in like this we would all have a better idea about how each saw compares to others. I am a stihl guy for sure but i also agree that the 346 is a great saw.


----------



## robfromaz1977

So Brad, is your 346XP going to be sold and replaced by the MS261? Just curious. And thanks for all the time you put into this.


----------



## edisto

First off, thanks Brad for taking the time to make the comparison. I think we can get around all of the "not scientific" arguments by putting the results in perspective.

Here's my take on the first 2 videos:







The error bars are 95% confidence limits, meaning that, based on the data, we are 95% confident that the true average cut time for each saw falls within those boundaries.

I used all 4 cuts for the MS261, and the reason the 95% confidence limit is so high (even though the sample size is larger), is because there was more than 0.6 seconds difference between the average in the first video, and the average of the second video. Or, as Brad might put it, the saw in the first video was more than 8.5% "stronger" than the saw in the second video. Brad concludes "dead even" for his 346 and the 261 in the second video, but the 261 in the first video was 10% "stronger" than his 346, which was only 5% "stronger" than the woods ported 346.

So...to cut through the confusion caused by percentages, what can legitimately be said about the final comparison, is that the 261 had the fastest cut times of all 3 saws, outcutting Brad's 346 by roughly the same margin as Brad's 346 outcut the new one. 

A rough analysis suggests no significant difference between Brad's 346 and the woods-ported 346, and also no significant difference between Brad's 346 and the MS261, but the MS261 was significantly faster than the woods-ported 346.


----------



## edisto

porsche965 said:


> As good as it can get in a back yard not being Scientific.



Almost. Alternating cuts, and a larger number of cuts (at least 5) is the best way to collect the data to compare 2 saws in this fashion.


----------



## HARRY BARKER

WOOOOHOOOO  Thank You


----------



## Rudedog

I'm going to sell a couple of my 028 Supers and get a 261.


----------



## Freehand

Good stuff Ed......rep ya when it lets me.....


----------



## WoodChuck'r

I'm pretty disappointed guys. I was looking forward to at least 1000 posts by 5:00.

Why the sudden lack of posting?? 


C'mon everyone I know you all have it in you.


----------



## RandyMac

WoodChucker81 said:


> I'm pretty disappointed guys. I was looking forward to at least 1000 posts by 5:00.
> 
> Why the sudden lack of posting??
> 
> 
> C'mon everyone I know you all have it in you.



They couldn't miss nap time with their blankies.


----------



## HARRY BARKER

WHOWOOOOOOO!!!
im really excited about this,at least brad is honest.....no broken fins "this time"


----------



## brncreeper

RandyMac said:


> They couldn't miss nap time with their blankies.




Probably a sugar withdrawal...not enough coolaid.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

RandyMac said:


> They couldn't miss nap time with their blankies.



Buncha weenies I tell ya RM. Buncha weenies.


----------



## RandyMac

BaaaaBaaaaa


----------



## THALL10326

WoodChucker81 said:


> Buncha weenies I tell ya RM. Buncha weenies.



Hehehehe, oh what awaits is gold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## THALL10326

*The little saw that could*

Welp all is quiet and now, its come to pass,
We found out the new saw is pretty fast.
The bias naysayers sit back in their chair and frown
Their little darling no longer wears the speed crown.

They say oh but the handling, oh but the wieght,
The tests aren't scienitific, they are of a fools fate.
The little saw brought out the brand bias for all to see,
The results are bogus, there is no way it can be.

Just the picture of it made some turn away, 
The layout of it is wrong they would say.
Had they touch it yet why that did not matter,
Making such talk pointless and just more chatter.

When they were the winners all was good,
Untill came along the little saw that could.
The agony of defeat brings out the worst in men,
While the winners rejoice, talk smack and grin.

We knew it was coming, the little saw that could,
Time to quit bickering and go cut some wood.
The trees won't care what saw you decide to use,
How quickly we forget we are the ones that choose.



(Spike can you put that in guitar tabs and send it to me, I feel a star is about to be born, you play em I'll write em, deal?,LOL)


----------



## RandyMac

THALL10326
This message is hidden because THALL10326 is on your ignore list.

sure is quiet in here.


----------



## THALL10326

RandyMac said:


> THALL10326
> This message is hidden because THALL10326 is on your ignore list.
> 
> sure is quiet in here.



I'm on your ignore list, I'm hurt, well ok, not really,LOL


----------



## parrisw

Looking good Brad. 

But only one thing. In the first vid you could hear the 346 slow significantly in its 2 cuts due to a knot in the bottom of the cant, the 261 had no knots by the looks of it.

But I still don't care which is faster.


----------



## Trigger-Time

THALL10326 said:


> Welp all is quiet and now, its come to pass,
> We found out the new saw is pretty fast.
> The bias naysayers sit back in their chair and frown
> Their little darling no longer wears the speed crown.
> 
> They say oh but the handling, oh but the wieght,
> The tests aren't scienitific, they are of a fools fate.
> The little saw brought out the brand bias for all to see,
> The results are bogus, there is no way it can be.
> 
> Just the picture of it made some turn away,
> The layout of it is wrong they would say.
> Had they touch it yet why that did not matter,
> Making such talk pointless and just more chatter.
> 
> When they were the winners all was good,
> Untill came along the little saw that could.
> The agony of defeat brings out the worst in men,
> While the winners rejoice, talk smack and grin.
> 
> We knew it was coming, the little saw that could,
> Time to quit bickering and go cut some wood.
> The trees won't care what saw you decide to use,
> How quickly we forget we are the ones that choose.
> 
> 
> 
> (Spike can you put that in guitar tabs and send it to me, I feel a star is about to be born, you play em I'll write em, deal?,LOL)





That is Gold!



TT


----------



## THALL10326

Trigger-Time said:


> That is Gold!
> 
> 
> 
> TT



Thankya, thankya very much,


----------



## THALL10326

parrisw said:


> Looking good Brad.
> 
> But only one thing. In the first vid you could hear the 346 slow significantly in its 2 cuts due to a knot in the bottom of the cant, the 261 had no knots by the looks of it.
> 
> *But I still don't care which is faster*.



The trees won't care either,


----------



## jeepyfz450

That was sweet thall. I should have you write something like that about my wife..... i will tell her i wrote it and reap the benefits lol.......


----------



## THALL10326

jeepyfz450 said:


> That was sweet thall. I should have you write something like that about my wife..... i will tell her i wrote it and reap the benefits lol.......



Oh my time I get done with one for your wifey you will wish I hadn't but you will die happy,LOLOL


----------



## jeepyfz450

THALL10326 said:


> Oh my time I get done with one your wifey you will wish I hadn't but you will die happy,LOLOL


lol sounds good to me. the best part is that she is sitting on the couch next to me and has no idea lol


----------



## parrisw

THALL10326 said:


> The trees won't care either,



Yup exactly. Just run WTF you want to run.


----------



## parrisw

jeepyfz450 said:


> lol sounds good to me. the best part is that she is sitting on the couch next to me and has no idea lol



Most women say that after they were with Tom. They never knew.

The most common 2 thing Tom ever hears is. 

Are you in yet? 

Who is that going to please?


----------



## StihlyinEly

parrisw said:


> Most women say that after they were with Tom. They never knew.
> 
> The most common 2 thing Tom ever hears is.
> 
> Are you in yet?
> 
> Who is that going to please?



Sponsor wars! Now that the 261 testing is done, let's get a cage fight between the Canadian Eiffel Tower and the Southern Boy Elvis Ho. Should keep the yawns from taking over.


----------



## THALL10326

parrisw said:


> Most women say that after they were with Tom. They never knew.
> 
> The most common 2 thing Tom ever hears is.
> 
> Are you in yet?
> 
> Who is that going to please?



Pfffffffffffft , for your info you ole sour puss I had a cute little blonde come in today with a handheld blower, broken pull rope. She was in her late 30's , early 40's and looking quite yummy to ole daddy. I go now how did you do that, shames on ya. She laffs and said I'm sorry. I go you should be but I forgives ya and proceed to repair her blower on the spot while she watched. Somehow during the conversation she blurts out are you married. Being Mr.Cool I replied are you crazy. She died laffing. Then I came back with well are you married, she says no, thank goodness for divorce. I go is better than murder isn't it, she's rolling. Took me over 45 minutes to fix a rope that usually takes me less than 10 minutes. Anyway being slick I made the knot so it will slip out in a few days, why, you betcha, she'll have to bring it back,hahaha. Me wants me some of that and me is gonna gets me some of that. Who am I aiming to please, ME, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## StihlyinEly

THALL10326 said:


> I had a cute little blonde come in today with *a handheld blower*



Forum policy prevents my reply, lest I be Trimmmed. Tommy, you have a much more subtle command of the English language than most folks in your parts.


----------



## THALL10326

jeepyfz450 said:


> lol sounds good to me. the best part is that she is sitting on the couch next to me and has no idea lol



You tell her that you know what honey, you look better today than the day I married you, you just get better everyday. She'll just smile. Then go you know I like to see if I'm as good as I was when I married you, whatcha say baby. 

Now when you get done with your few hours of pleasure of da flesh you write me that dayummm check ya hear,hahahaha


----------



## THALL10326

StihlyinEly said:


> Forum policy prevents my reply, lest I be Trimmmed. Tommy, you have a much more subtle command of the English language than most folks in your parts.



I took one look and thought she will be very uhhhhhhhhhh flexable,LOLOLOL


----------



## wendell

Tommy, does that bubble butt jail bait at Wendy's know you are cheating on her?


----------



## parrisw

THALL10326 said:


> Pfffffffffffft , for your info you ole sour puss I had a cute little blonde come in today with a handheld blower, broken pull rope. She was in her late 30's , early 40's and looking quite yummy to ole daddy. I go now how did you do that, shames on ya. She laffs and said I'm sorry. I go you should be but I forgives ya and proceed to repair her blower on the spot while she watched. Somehow during the conversation she blurts out are you married. Being Mr.Cool I replied are you crazy. She died laffing. Then I came back with well are you married, she says no, thank goodness for divorce. I go is better than murder isn't it, she's rolling. Took me over 45 minutes to fix a rope that usually takes me less than 10 minutes. Anyway being slick I made the knot so it will slip out in a few days, why, you betcha, she'll have to bring it back,hahaha. Me wants me some of that and me is gonna gets me some of that. Who am I aiming to please, ME, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Hmm, I thought you were the one with the handheld blower and the broken pull rope?


----------



## StihlyinEly

parrisw said:


> Hmm, I thought you were the one with the handheld blower and the broken pull rope?



For a man who knows how to perform, uh, _services_, what problem is that?


----------



## THALL10326

wendell said:


> Tommy, does that bubble butt jail bait at Wendy's know you are cheating on her?



I was there today. Ole boy behind the counter and I joke around all the time. I asked him what would happened if I jumped over this counter for a romp in the back with that gal. He goes man I'll have to call the law. I go awwww come on, can't you lock the doors instead,hahaha


----------



## Anthony_Va.

So, when will you be modding a 362 like this 261, Brad? Or is the intake not split on the 362? J/W.


Seems it's safe to say the 261 is competitive with the 346xp. Thats something alot of Stihlheads have been waiting to hear and alot of Huskyheads are still in denial of.

At least there's a great 50cc saw for both sides now. I think handling and weight are all personal preferences. It comes down to which brand you want to cut with. But I think the same ole "346 is superior" crap is old news. 

Now all the Husky guys will be claiming 346 because it's lighter, and all the Stihlheads will be claiming 261 because it's faster. A big 180 from whats been said by both sides before.


----------



## blsnelling

The 362 is setup like the 441. It's not a split single barrel carb, so won't be possible to mod like this 261. But they don't really need it. They respond to porting without such drastic measures.

BTW, I had some more saw enthusiasts handle the 261 and 346 tonight, and again, thought the 261 felt lighter, even though it's not. Both saws balance right down the centerline of the spark plug. The 261 is not a badly balanced saw at all. I've decided that what is I like about the 346 is the angle of the handle, and how small of diameter it is. I have very small hands, and it fits very nicely.


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> I have very small hands, and it fits very nicely.



ha ha ha. Sorry had to do it Brad!! So that's why you love the 346 it doesn't make your hands feel tiny!! That 261 is so huge, it makes your hands feel tiny!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xu_bE7g2wqM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xu_bE7g2wqM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## 8433jeff

THALL10326 said:


> Welp all is quiet and now, its come to pass,
> We found out the new saw is pretty fast.
> The bias naysayers sit back in their chair and frown
> Their little darling no longer wears the speed crown.
> 
> They say oh but the handling, oh but the wieght,
> The tests aren't scienitific, they are of a fools fate.
> The little saw brought out the brand bias for all to see,
> The results are bogus, there is no way it can be.
> 
> Just the picture of it made some turn away,
> The layout of it is wrong they would say.
> Had they touch it yet why that did not matter,
> Making such talk pointless and just more chatter.
> 
> When they were the winners all was good,
> Untill came along the little saw that could.
> The agony of defeat brings out the worst in men,
> While the winners rejoice, talk smack and grin.
> 
> We knew it was coming, the little saw that could,
> Time to quit bickering and go cut some wood.
> The trees won't care what saw you decide to use,
> How quickly we forget we are the ones that choose.
> 
> 
> 
> (Spike can you put that in guitar tabs and send it to me, I feel a star is about to be born, you play em I'll write em, deal?,LOL)



Thall, buddy how you doing, I see yous are ready to print some vinyls, I'm telling ya, the trades are screaming smash, we got hundreds of requests from all the top stations on the coasts, this will be a big hit, top ten no doubter...


----------



## blsnelling

parrisw said:


> ha ha ha. Sorry had to do it Brad!! So that's why you love the 346 it doesn't make your hands feel tiny!! That 261 is so huge, it makes your hands feel tiny!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha



That was hillarious


----------



## blsnelling

Well, it's time to cap this thread off and sum things up. I think this little video we made for you guys pretty much puts it all in a nutshell!


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> That was hillarious



ha haha. Thanks. Glad you saw the humor.


----------



## bcorradi

That was pretty good.


----------



## parrisw

blsnelling said:


> Well, it's time to cap this thread off and sum things up. I think this little video we made for you guys pretty much puts it all in a nutshell!
> 
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



ha haha. Great!

Glad to see you two are still talking!.


----------



## MCW

Classic video fellas. The way Andy was screaming I'd think the neighbours may have thought a bit of midnight rape was on the cards


----------



## Andyshine77

OK that was funny! You guys have no Idea how much fun we had making this video, it was a blast!:help::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling

parrisw said:


> Glad to see you two are still talking!.



Absolutely. We were laughing in PMs while we were at each others throats in the thread That's what friends are for


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> Absolutely. We were laughing in PMs while we were at each others throats in the thread That's what friends are for



It was tongue and cheek the whole time. Me Brad and Nick are pretty good friends, we've had a good time the last week or so, and Brad's done a lot of work to get the saws in question to where they are today. Good work man!!


----------



## parrisw

You guys are all great. Looks like fun was had. Wish I had some friends around here to share my disease with. Everybody just thinks I'm nuts!


----------



## MCW

parrisw said:


> You guys are all great. Looks like fun was had. Wish I had some friends around here to share my disease with. Everybody just thinks I'm nuts!



I agree Will. I'm in the same boat. Wayne (gmax) is about 270km away and he's probably the closest guy I know who's as psychologically unsound about chainsaws as me


----------



## Andyshine77

parrisw said:


> You guys are all great. Looks like fun was had. Wish I had some friends around here to share my disease with. Everybody just thinks I'm nuts!



Don't worry most people we know think we're nut's as well, but you know what? we don't care.


----------



## parrisw

Andyshine77 said:


> Don't worry most people we know think we're nut's as well, but you know what? we don't care.



Ya. Same here. I just wish I had some other nutheads to play with! LOL


----------



## Banacanin

parrisw said:


> Are you a lady? And can you sing?



Oh he is no lady...


----------



## Work Saw Collector

blsnelling said:


> Well, it's time to cap this thread off and sum things up. I think this little video we made for you guys pretty much puts it all in a nutshell!
> 
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



I wish I could have been there for that, looks like you all had fun. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## dieselram

parrisw said:


> You guys are all great. Looks like fun was had. Wish I had some friends around here to share my disease with. Everybody just thinks I'm nuts!



I feel your pain!!! All though I might be nuts.... I don't burn wood or sell it and I have a huge issue with saws!!!!! I love the sound and smells of cutting wood.... YUP, I am NUTS!!!!!


----------



## sunfish

Cool vid, Brad. Thanks for all you put into this thread!

BTW, I pick up my new 346xp tomorrow  

After a MM and a few tanks of mix, I might be sending it to ya!


----------



## J.W Younger

blsnelling said:


> Well, it's time to cap this thread off and sum things up. I think this little video we made for you guys pretty much puts it all in a nutshell!
> 
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


You guys just ani't right in the head.


----------



## blsnelling

J.W Younger said:


> You guys just ani't right in the head.



Like Andre said, we know that...but we don't care


----------



## edisto

Dayumm Tommy! I knew you were a sweet talker, I just didn't know you could rap...

It would be interesting to work through porting a strato saw in a way that doesn't lose the scavenging advantages of the air charge. With an expansion chamber not being a practical option for a saw, it seems possible that one could get a strato to outperform a non-strato with the same displacement.

Seems pretty clear that the rule of thumb approach that works on conventional loop-scavenged 2-strokes doesn't work in this case. Timing will be an even bigger issue for certain.


----------



## PasoRoblesJimmy

*Brand name fanaticism.*

Can you imagine what the internet could be like if this level of brand name fanaticism was applied to products like clothes washers, dryers and refrigerators????

The brand-name fanatics would be saying: 

"This brand of refrigerator is light, well balanced and nimble." 

"This other brand of refrigerator, however, handles like a brick."

LOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOL!!!!!!!

:jawdrop:


----------



## WoodChuck'r

Does anyone know when Stihl is going to release the MS261??


----------



## Trigger-Time

WoodChucker81 said:


> Does anyone know when Stihl is going to release the MS261??



From what I understand, if a dealer gets saws and such from
a independent Stihl distributor the dealer will not receive any 261's until distributor's
have sold all of the 260's. And that why some dealers have 261's and some don't. 
My dealer has to deal with independent Stihl distributor 



TT


----------



## AUSSIE1

THALL10326 said:


> Pfffffffffffft , for your info you ole sour puss I had a cute little blonde come in today with a handheld blower, broken pull rope. She was in her late 30's , early 40's and looking quite yummy to ole daddy. I go now how did you do that, shames on ya. She laffs and said I'm sorry. I go you should be but I forgives ya and proceed to repair her blower on the spot while she watched. Somehow during the conversation she blurts out are you married. Being Mr.Cool I replied are you crazy. She died laffing. Then I came back with well are you married, she says no, thank goodness for divorce. I go is better than murder isn't it, she's rolling. Took me over 45 minutes to fix a rope that usually takes me less than 10 minutes. Anyway being slick I made the knot so it will slip out in a few days, why, you betcha, she'll have to bring it back,hahaha. Me wants me some of that and me is gonna gets me some of that. Who am I aiming to please, ME, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Your slippin Elv....I mean Tom....you didn't score on the first!


----------



## AUSSIE1

Haha...It wasn't long back Husky was being flogged for coming up with the 372XT and here we have a Stihl of similar design with a pat on the back! 

Who cares if this Stihl is quicker, balances better? They all have their time at the top sooner or later. Progression, that's what we all want to see from all parties to keep the next one honest.

As far as ported goes, different porters produce different results with different saws. One could have the 346 with a 2% advantage or even the 261 with a 10% advantage! We've seen it plenty of times previous!


----------



## tdi-rick

edisto said:


> [snip]
> It would be interesting to work through porting a strato saw in a way that doesn't lose the scavenging advantages of the air charge. With an expansion chamber not being a practical option for a saw, it seems possible that one could get a strato to outperform a non-strato with the same displacement.
> 
> Seems pretty clear that the rule of thumb approach that works on conventional loop-scavenged 2-strokes doesn't work in this case. Timing will be an even bigger issue for certain.



If you care to search for TerrySyd's thread and posts on porting a strato Husky you may very well find what you are looking for 

A clear, logical approach to modifying something 'different'.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

Trigger-Time said:


> From what I understand, if a dealer gets saws and such from
> a independent Stihl distributor the dealer will not receive any 261's until distributor's
> have sold all of the 260's. And that why some dealers have 261's and some don't.
> My dealer has to deal with independent Stihl distributor
> 
> 
> 
> TT



Though this may be a truthful, solid, insightful answer - I was being a smart a$$.


----------



## BloodOnTheIce

WoodChucker81 said:


> Though this may be a truthful, solid, insightful answer - I was being a smart a$$.



you know 20 seconds after I get my first one I'll be giving you call. or text you a picture bragging about it.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

^^^^^^

You know I'll be buying one after I own a 460 Arctic and a 441CM.


----------



## Banacanin

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Can you imagine what the internet could be like if this level of brand name fanaticism was applied to products like clothes washers, dryers and refrigerators????
> 
> The brand-name fanatics would be saying:
> 
> "This brand of refrigerator is light, well balanced and nimble."
> 
> "This other brand of refrigerator, however, handles like a brick."
> 
> LOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOL!!!!!!!
> 
> :jawdrop:



I suppose our wives have more sense than we do when it comes to equipment


----------



## litefoot

edisto said:


> Dayumm Tommy! I knew you were a sweet talker, I just didn't know you could rap...
> 
> It would be interesting to work through porting a strato saw in a way that doesn't lose the scavenging advantages of the air charge. With an expansion chamber not being a practical option for a saw, *it seems possible that one could get a strato to outperform a non-strato with the same displacement.*
> Seems pretty clear that the rule of thumb approach that works on conventional loop-scavenged 2-strokes doesn't work in this case. Timing will be an even bigger issue for certain.



Your post reminded me of the all the "EPA is Killing Saws" threads before the first strato designs started hitting the shelves. Now we have a 50cc strato saw that is stronger than the hottest non-strato stocker out there. So in my mind, all of us should be celebrating this engineering victory over the EPA no matter what your brand preference is.


----------



## bigredd

Looks like the 261 is having an impact on 260 sales. Take a look at this new 260 Pro that had NO BIDS on Ebay. Came with 3 chains, case and free shipping. No bids at $400.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ain_0&rt=nc&si=etIk4dwudc2N9rFzvG2Qzq9o1gQ%3D


----------



## edisto

tdi-rick said:


> If you care to search for TerrySyd's thread and posts on porting a strato Husky you may very well find what you are looking for
> 
> A clear, logical approach to modifying something 'different'.



How'd I miss that one? Thanks for the heads-up!



litefoot said:


> Your post reminded me of the all the "EPA is Killing Saws" threads before the first strato designs started hitting the shelves. Now we have a 50cc strato saw that is stronger than the hottest non-strato stocker out there. So in my mind, all of us should be celebrating this engineering victory over the EPA no matter what your brand preference is.



As I said, I think there is a huge advantage in terms of scavenging for strato. I'm pretty sure the only thing that kept that design off of saws is the extra manufacturing expense. Pass that on to the customer with a cheaper option, and no-one would pay for it. Maybe we should thank the EPA...


----------



## StihlyinEly

Great vid, Brad. Excellent comedy. But for the accents and lack of sexual entendre, it might have been a Monty Python skit. WAY better than those cookie cutting vids.


----------



## Rudedog

StihlyinEly said:


> Great vid, Brad. Excellent comedy. But for the accents and lack of sexual entendre, it might have been a Monty Python skit. WAY better than those cookie cutting vids.



As my bratty college children would say, he is maturing as a director.


----------



## blsnelling

Rudedog said:


> As my bratty college children would say, he is maturing as a director.



You didn't just call that video mature did you?!!!!


----------



## StihlyinEly

Rudedog said:


> As my bratty college children would say, he is maturing as a director.



What do bratty college children know about anything? I have three of them myself.  :taped:


----------



## Rudedog

blsnelling said:


> You didn't just call that video mature did you?!!!!



Yes, but not the actress/ Andy in your film. Just your subject matter. Your technique has matured. My college brat kids have it all figured out. You both have convinced me I need a 261.


----------



## blsnelling

Rudedog said:


> You both have convinced me I need a 261.


So do you want that grilled or fried? BTW, I'm going to pick up another one tomorrow.


----------



## StihlyinEly

blsnelling said:


> BTW, I'm going to pick up another one tomorrow.



You suck! :monkey:


----------



## blsnelling

StihlyinEly said:


> You suck! :monkey:


It's for someone else, lol. I only need one.


----------



## StihlyinEly

blsnelling said:


> It's for someone else, lol. I only need one.



You _still_ suck! I mean that in the best possible way!


----------



## blsnelling

StihlyinEly said:


> You _still_ suck! I mean that in the best possible way!



You want one too


----------



## StihlyinEly

blsnelling said:


> You want one too



A hummer, or a 261? I'll leave the hummers to SawTroll.   

Yeah, I want a 261, but it ain't in the budget just yet.


----------



## Wild Knight

FATGUY said:


> :biggrinbounce2:*LONG LIVE THE NEW KING OF 50CC SAWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*



Brad's 261 was only 1 second off the ported 70cc saws in 14-15" hardwoods. Granted, it's no longer a strato, but it's a dang fine saw. Long live the new King.


----------



## Wild Knight

blsnelling said:


> Well, it's time to cap this thread off and sum things up. I think this little video we made for you guys pretty much puts it all in a nutshell!
> 
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



The 346 was just so darn nimble compared to the 261...


----------



## Andyshine77

Rudedog said:


> Yes, but not the actress/ Andy in your film.



Actress who are you calling actress?:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> Actress who are you calling actress?:hmm3grin2orange:



YOU , Sweatfart!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> YOU , Sweatfart!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## blsnelling

So what does this mean for the future of my personal 50cc saws? I can't bring myself to sell either one of these. A couple days ago I was frustrated and ready to sell this 261. My how things changed. It was a blast Saturday watching the guys run this thing and the grins and remarks that resulted. Anytime a 50cc saw out performs 60cc saws, and is right on the heals of ported 70cc saws... And then my 346. I had never compared my 346 after all the additional mods to see how it compared with another more typically modded 346. It performs almost identically as the 261. I've got too much time and passion invested in this saw to let it go. I don't typically duplicate work saws, but I can't part with either one of these little beasts.


----------



## Anthony_Va.

I'll be picking one up myself after the new year. if I can get this 260 moved. 

I might just keep it though, it has sentimental value. But either way I'll have to have a 261. And of course it'll have to be ported. :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## D&B Mack

Don't you Husky guys have your own thread to comment in?

Like this one: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=154079&highlight=346+start:hmm3grin2orange:

Seriously, I am a Stihl guy, but like the 346 as much as the 260. Will be interested how I feel when I pickup the 261...whenever that happens.


----------



## Trigger-Time

WoodChucker81 said:


> Though this may be a truthful, solid, insightful answer - I was being a smart a$$.



I have seen enough of your post to know that was probably the case as you seem to have the gift for it. 

But thought some would be asking the same thing.



TT


----------



## bigredd

Anthony_Va. said:


> I'll be picking one up myself after the new year. if I can get this 260 moved.
> 
> I might just keep it though, it has sentimental value. But either way I'll have to have a 261. And of course it'll have to be ported. :biggrinbounce2:



I sold my 2-yr old 260 on local CList for $350 two weeks ago and had a queue of buyers. Hurry before the 261 becomes available.

Sounds like a simple MM is the ticket for a 261. Why the extra expese of porting and destroying the Strato features for minimal gain beyond a MM?


----------



## blsnelling

bigredd said:


> Sounds like a simple MM is the ticket for a 261. Why the extra expese of porting and destroying the Strato features for minimal gain beyond a MM?



You're right that a MMd 261 is a great saw. However, what I finally ended up with is far more than minimally more than the MM. I nearly tripled the gains I got from just the MM.


----------



## blsnelling

Good stuff Joat


----------



## nmurph

where ya' been hiding jack? i was thinking about you this weekend!


----------



## fearofpavement

One bad, very bad thing about this thread is that it has caused a flare-up of CAD. Mine had been in remission for a while and now it has come back with a vengeance. Thanks for nothing guys!


----------



## nmurph

you sure picked a fine thread to jump into!


----------



## blsnelling

I'm off to pick up a new one with 16" B&C, and ordered another with 18" B&C One of them will be getting modded.


----------



## Diesel Pro

This thread is WTF long to find anything. A spin off thread with test data would be nice.

The strato exorcism looks cool, but what I'd like to see is same saw, same day, same bar, same new chain, consistent cant. Then test stock, then muff mod, then a nice woods port. Set a general time limit. No need to be super precise, just the "bang for the buck" rule of thumb leaving the strato system in place.

My 346 is already muff modded, but I would make it available if need be and would pay for a new stock muffler.

It sounds like the 346 has been bested. CAD is trying to kick me in the ass for moving impulsively on the 346 that I didn't need in the first place and not waiting for the 261, but common sense prevails as Husqvarna is better serviced in my area.


----------



## blsnelling

No more testing on these two models for me. I'm tested out, and learned what I wanted to learn.


----------



## blsnelling

I am curious what the larger carb is contributing, so I'll be checking that out with this next one on the bench.


----------



## THALL10326

joatmon said:


> Never mistake stupidity for bravery.



Or as they say in my neck of the woods a good run is better than a bad stand,LOL

Joat I thought you done said to hell with posting and went off in the hills of ole South Carolina never to be seen again. Good thing you popped up for I been feeding ole blue real good and was letting him sniff those Wendy gift cards you sent me awhile back. He had your scent and I was just about to unleashed the critter to come flush you out. Guess I can put him back on Alpo dog food now, no need to fatten him up anymore on prime raw possum belly and buzzard gizzards. 

So ole Joat whatcha think of the new kid on the block? Seems to run pretty strong. Little ole thang caused quite a stir among the chainsaw brothern. The little saw that could can be summed up with two words, it did,haha

Tant got the Martin yet, but I went to the music shop here in town to get up close view of the mighty D28. She's a beauty for sure. All glossy and shiny, real pretty wood in that thing. It was so shiny I could see my face reflecting in it. Was so much like a mirrow I whipped out my comb and started combing my doo. Then all the sudden I started seeing things. Yup there I was on stage with da King, Porter, Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Bill Monroe and host of others that been long gone. We was pounding out Will the Circle be Unbroken. In a front row seat was the Lord hollering play that Martin baby, play that Martin. I was about to get down on it when that prick behind the counter asked are you interested in that. Broke my con cen tra shun and ruined the whole dayumm show, that low life. One good thing though, you was playing fiddle Joat so maybe it was good that guy snapped me out of it,


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> You're right that a MMd 261 is a great saw. However, what I finally ended up with is far more than minimally more than the MM. I nearly tripled the gains I got from just the MM.



The "tripled the gains" part made me go back to find the MM vids, and in gathering more data, I found i had made an egregious error. The reason there was so much variation in the 261 times was that i had used the 8-pin data instead of the 7-pin. We're already worried about apples to apples, and I compared apples to pie.

You can believe the numbers, just don't trust the dumbasses who put those numbers together. I think I got it right this time though. Hopefully this will make things right, and perhaps give Diesel his summary.

First up, the 261:







For the record, the error bars are 95% confidence limits. Brad was confused by the lack of response of the 346 to a muffler mod, but (based on the videos in post 240), the same thing happened to the 261. Given that we are dealing with virtually no power in terms of the analysis, and pseudoreplication (treating replicate cuts from one saw as replicate saws), the results need to be taken with a few bites off of a salt lick. caveats aside, the ported 261 was significantly faster than the stock or MM 261. Although the muffler modded 261 was slower than stock, it was not significantly slower.

Next, the 346:






No error bars for the stock or MM saws, because each video only showed a single cut (conspiracy theorists start your engines!). No replication means no analysis, so take the comparisons for what they are. It also means no analysis comparing the 346 to the 261 in stock or MM form.

That leaves us with a comparison of the ported saws:






Making up for the implication from the preceding graphs that Brad needs to work on his muffler mods a little, is the result (choke down another piece of salt lick) that there were significant differences among all 3 saws. The ported 261 was significantly faster than the 346, and Brad's special 346 was faster than both of the others.

I apologize for confounding the issue earlier by slowing the 346 and 261 by adding in their 8-pin times.


----------



## edisto

THALL10326 said:


> One good thing though, you was playing fiddle Joat so maybe it was good that guy snapped me out of it,



I thought Joat played the banjo?


----------



## THALL10326

edisto said:


> I thought Joat played the banjo?



No you was, aren't ya glad that guy awoke me from my dream standing there,LOLOL


----------



## Kingsley

Okay Brad you have sold me on the fact that I NEED a 261. 
So I...
Sold my faithful 026
Call my dealer to order it up
Get a call back from my dealer and...
"sorry that isn't being distributed in this area yet. We will get new price pages after January 1st." No fault of the dealer they are good people, but WTF???

I told them I know someone who has had theirs for a week and is going to pick up their 2nd. They simply acted like this baffled them.

What do I do?

Oh yeah, and you ruined my chain inventory too. I am now convinced I should get an 18" bar and chain combo on this saw.

All kidding aside your write-up was great and Stihl should write you a nice big fat commission check.

Marty


----------



## edisto

THALL10326 said:


> No you was, aren't ya glad that guy awoke me from my dream standing there,LOLOL



You should be glad...your mouth is way prettier than Ned Beatty's.


----------



## THALL10326

edisto said:


> You should be glad...your mouth is way prettier than Ned Beatty's.



Haha. Ya know that D28 was so pruty I'm thinking of unloading a few of these saws I don't need and go back up there and get that thing. Hate to dip in my piggie bank 2300 deep for something I merely want but dont really need at all. That thing has some fine wood in it. Hell even if I can't play it yet I can hang it on the wall and use it as a mirror,


----------



## edisto

THALL10326 said:


> Haha. Ya know that D28 was so pruty I'm thinking of unloading a few of these saws I don't need and go back up there and get that thing. Hate to dip in my piggie bank 2300 deep for something I merely want but dont really need at all. That thing has some fine wood in it. Hell even if I can't play it yet I can hang it on the wall and use it as a mirror,



That is steep, but certainly worth it. I'm guessing you'd rather attract the women that get more fluttery when they hear you play the guitar then they do when they hear you run a saw. Might be hard to find in your neck of the woods though.

As long as we're dealing with non-scientific comparisons, here's the competition for your D28:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z302bHUMokA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z302bHUMokA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Kingsley

This thread is long enough with information that benefits those who read it. Why do some of the members here decide to clutter it up with utter BS!

If you want to start a thread about garbage go to another forum and post. Perhaps one that tolerates getting WAY off topic, otherwise lets try and keep this thread on track guys.

Marty


----------



## THALL10326

edisto said:


> That is steep, but certainly worth it. I'm guessing you'd rather attract the women that get more fluttery when they hear you play the guitar then they do when they hear you run a saw. Might be hard to find in your neck of the woods though.
> 
> As long as we're dealing with non-scientific comparisons, here's the competition for your D28:
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z302bHUMokA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z302bHUMokA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>



I already seen that vid. The Hummer sounds great too. Seen one online for 4000.00 It don't sound 2 grand better to me but thats just me mind ya. The thing I don't care much for with the Hummer is how big it is, its wide. Be kinda hard for me to sit in my recliner and attempt to strum that thing. Would like to have one though, Gibson makes some great music makers for sure,


----------



## Kingsley

So just got a call back from another dealer. He was told by his distributor that we won't be able to have a 261 in this area for a month. What is a guy with a serious case of CAD supposed to do? 

Frustrated,
Marty


----------



## THALL10326

Kingsley said:


> This thread is long enough with information that benefits those who read it. Why do some of the members here decide to clutter it up with utter BS!
> 
> If you want to start a thread about garbage go to another forum and post. Perhaps one that tolerates getting WAY off topic, otherwise lets try and keep this thread on track guys.
> 
> Marty



Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww well cuse me sir, didn't know you owned the place. Wait a minute you don't do you, guess you will have to deal with it, I feel your pain. Seems to me maybe you need to find the whiner forum and then you can moan the blues all ya want, oh sorry, blues is pertain to what, not chainsaws. Instead of being a bonehead why not just skip over what you don't want to look at like everyone else does. This post had nothing to do with the 261 did it, yours didn't either, hint hint...

You play guitar by chance, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## robfromaz1977

Kingsley said:


> This thread is long enough with information that benefits those who read it. Why do some of the members here decide to clutter it up with utter BS!
> 
> If you want to start a thread about garbage go to another forum and post. Perhaps one that tolerates getting WAY off topic, otherwise lets try and keep this thread on track guys.
> 
> Marty



Somebody needs to call whine one one and get a whaaambulance! hone:


----------



## blsnelling

So when we run out of anything valuable to talk about, we just start fighting among ourselves


----------



## blsnelling

1000 posts, 67 pages, and 35,319 views in 10 days, lol! Of course, if we editted out all the off topic posts, it'd only be about 10 pages. But what would be the fun in that


----------



## THALL10326

blsnelling said:


> 1000 posts, 67 pages, and 35,319 views in 10 days, lol! Of course, if we editted out all the off topic posts, it'd only be about 10 pages. But what would be the fun in that



Reminds me of Da Jewel thread. We can take this one to a 1000 pages too. I can put of 500 pages of off topic by myself just scrapping with those that don't like it,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## parrisw

THALL10326 said:


> Reminds me of Da Jewel thread. We can take this one to a 1000 pages too. I can put of 500 pages of off topic by myself just scrapping with those that don't like it,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Ya but it'll take ya 10 years to type that much.


----------



## edisto

joatmon said:


> Teaching people to put a file to the chain every tank, a new chain every now and again, and a new sprocket ring every year will mean more to the average homeowner that Ed's charts on which saw is faster.



Truer words were never written...


...until these:



joatmon said:


> ... iffin' ya can't play so well ... at least look good doin' it ... Brylcreem.



For the record, I think the D28 sounds better. I try not to listen though, because I can't afford either.


----------



## Diesel Pro

edisto said:


> You can believe the numbers, just don't trust the dumbasses who put those numbers together. I think I got it right this time though. Hopefully this will make things right, and perhaps give Diesel his summary.



Thank you!

One nit-pick. Can you make the time scaling of the 261 graph the same please?

I've often wondered about teh placebo affect of the muffler mod. Louder is faster right?

Now to clear up one more thing, what was the difference in chains being used? Both .325? Both 3/8" Or as delivered?


----------



## THALL10326

joatmon said:


> Yep, run from 'em 'til you can determine their motives.
> 
> 
> 
> I was in the woods ... I was deep in thought ... I meditated ... I prayed ... I was inspired ... I was moved ... I am back. Send ole blue down to play with ole Max. I stihl use Max the wonderdog to guard the castle and environs. I would give ole blue the best ... Canidae All Stages every sunup and sundown and a Canadie Snap-Biscuit for a treat. That's like a number two, only better.
> 
> 
> 
> Two words ... New Champ. I was yakin' with Steve today and like we agreed ... the 026/260 gets dissed ... but it's a fine, reliable, dependable ... do-all saw for 99% of the chainsaw buying public. People get worked up on these brand wars and forget about what concerns many folk ... dealer support and service. You may need a new chain (don't ever get one sharpened in Leesburg, eh) .. you may leave the old mix in too long ... your young 30's/40s divorced ex may need to take your old (ie. her) trimmer in for a new cord (don't worry ... she'll be back), or you may just forget how to operate it.
> 
> Teaching people to put a file to the chain every tank, a new chain every now and again, and a new sprocket ring every year will mean more to the average homeowner that Ed's charts on which saw is faster.
> 
> Shoot Tommy. I hate to break it to ya, but people don't come to your shop 'cause they like your charm and wit .... it's 'cause you fix their old saws and trimmers.
> 
> 
> 
> Messin' with a gent having a serious pipe dream like that is stihl a hangin' offense here in SC. I expect that from a metal head, not from a fiddle player. Young Duncan and I have been hangin' out at guitar joints finding a new 'lectric for him. The PRSi gang just north of you puts out something Duncan's gonna have.
> 
> That D28 is nice. Ed like Hummingbirds ... good too. Duncan likes his Larrivee dread with rosewood back and sides. Remember ... it's your ears that have to be pleased. Get 'er stringed and setup for you and who knows .... look out Elvis. I fully expect to see Elvis sightings at a little Stihl shop in Virginny here shortly. Oh ... another tip ... iffin' ya can't play so well ... at least look good doin' it ... Brylcreem.



You are spoiling that pooch of yours Joat. Need to put some grit in his gut. Ole blue now, when I slip some gun powder in his buzzard gizzards no man is safe..

I'm with you, the little 261 seems to put out some good power. Even so no selling my ole trusty 026. Its been doing the job for years, no reason to hang it now. May add a 261 to the clan though, looks like a fun saw.

Got the doo glue for I sure as hell can't play very well, not yet!!!

Oh reminder, blue just asked me how come he doesn't get treats, claims he can play bass,LOLOL


----------



## blsnelling

Diesel Pro said:


> Now to clear up one more thing, what was the difference in chains being used? Both .325? Both 3/8" Or as delivered?



Same chain was used on all three saws.


----------



## edisto

Diesel Pro said:


> One nit-pick. Can you make the time scaling of the 261 graph the same please?



The same as what?


----------



## Diesel Pro

0-9 seconds with 1 second increment/resolution marks OR 0-12 second with 2 second increments. Just so all are same.


----------



## edisto

Diesel Pro said:


> 0-9 seconds with 1 second increment/resolution marks OR 0-12 second with 2 second increments. Just so all are same.



Sorry...not worth the trouble. The valid comparisons are within each graph.

Here are the numbers if you like (mean +/-95%CL):

stock 261: 7.21+/-3.00
MM 261: 7.39+/-2.83
ported 261: 6.51+/-0.12

stock 346: 8.02
MM 346: 8.13
ported 346: 7.61+/-0.19

Brad's 346: 6.16+/-0.12


----------



## THALL10326

Good point ole Joat. The out with the old and in with the new will always be the motto at the salescounter. At home the ole faithfull's will remian right where they are.

Yup I been plucking strings while ole blue is at my feet. Sometimes he gets up, goes out on the porch and howels like crazy. I don't know if the guitar is hurting his ears or its my terrible playing, 

Ya know back to the 261. Seems all new strato Stihls run pretty strong. They all seem to put out more power than the model they replaced. Makes me wonder whats in store down the road when they drop the 660 and 460. Thats going to be real interesting for sure!!!


----------



## PasoRoblesJimmy

edisto said:


> That is steep, but certainly worth it. I'm guessing you'd rather attract the women that get more fluttery when they hear you play the guitar then they do when they hear you run a saw. Might be hard to find in your neck of the woods though.
> 
> As long as we're dealing with non-scientific comparisons, here's the competition for your D28:
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z302bHUMokA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z302bHUMokA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>



That video isn't a fair comparison. The guy is picking/playing real guitar music on the D28 while he is only strumming the Gibson. Strumming isn't real music. Strumming is just strumming.

These guys really know how to play guitars:

The Romeros: The Royal Family of the Guitar.
http://www.romeroguitarquartet.com/frameset.html


----------



## robfromaz1977

Kingsley said:


> This thread is long enough with information that benefits those who read it. Why do some of the members here decide to clutter it up with utter BS!
> 
> If you want to start a thread about garbage go to another forum and post. Perhaps one that tolerates getting WAY off topic, otherwise lets try and keep this thread on track guys.
> 
> Marty



So are you going to give negative rep to everyone that goes off topic in this thread? If so you got alot of it to give out. I guess some people cant take a joke.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

This thread needs more posts I don't think enough people have read it yet.


----------



## homelitejim

can't wait to get my hands on a ms261 but have not seen one yet, too many ms260's lying around. BTW Husqvarna is sold in a box store here in Spokane Wa, the chainsaw's are right next to the carhartts and bin of pig ears.


----------



## edisto

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> That video isn't a fair comparison. The guy is picking/playing real guitar music on the D28 while he is only strumming the Gibson. Strumming isn't real music. Strumming is just strumming.
> 
> These guys really know how to play guitars:
> 
> The Romeros: The Royal Family of the Guitar.
> http://www.romeroguitarquartet.com/frameset.html



Not fair if you have the attention span of a gerbil...he plays the same lick followed by the same song on both guitars.

I would like to get a guitar with nylon strings at some point though...


----------



## blsnelling

The 346 that I bought and used for testing in this thread is for sale. It's exactly what anyone gets that buys a 346 from me. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> The 346 that I bought and used for testing in this thread is for sale. It's exactly what anyone gets that buys a 346 from me. PM me if you're interested.



Joat? You looking for a limbing saw?


----------



## dingeryote

WoodChucker81 said:


> This thread needs more posts I don't think enough people have read it yet.



You might be right.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

Just called 2 stihl dealers here in Nor Cal asking if they can get the ms261, and they said what? you mean 362 right?..no ms261, its replacing the 260 pro, oh you mean 361 right? No, ms261....Oh, let me make some calls, will get back to ya......

They own stihl dealership and Im the first one to let them know about the ms261, are you kidding me, really, really.....:bang:


----------



## dingeryote

woodsman44 said:


> Just called 2 stihl dealers here in Nor Cal asking if they can get the ms261, and they said what? you mean 362 right?..no ms261, its replacing the 260 pro, oh you mean 361 right? No, ms261....Oh, let me make some calls, will get back to ya......
> 
> They own stihl dealership and Im the first one to let them know about the ms261, are you kidding me, really, really.....:bang:



Not surprising at all.

It's all just "Inventory" and another "SKU" to most.
Normal folks don't get frothed up over ***, they just put gas in them and use 'em. LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## dieselram

Kingsley said:


> So just got a call back from another dealer. He was told by his distributor that we won't be able to have a 261 in this area for a month. What is a guy with a serious case of CAD supposed to do?
> 
> Frustrated,
> Marty



It sounds like a ROAD trip is in order....


----------



## 2000ssm6

edisto said:


> Joat? You looking for a limbing saw?



Joat has a pretty slick 346, _almost_ made me drool.


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

dieselram said:


> It sounds like a ROAD trip is in order....



Sounds like I will have to buy one out of CA, dealers have "KNOW IDEA" when they can get one, or what they even are...did you say ms261? you mean ms361? right?


----------



## chopperfreak2k1

litefoot said:


> Your post reminded me of the all the "EPA is Killing Saws" threads before the first strato designs started hitting the shelves. Now we have a 50cc strato saw that is stronger than the hottest non-strato stocker out there. So in my mind, all of us should be celebrating this engineering victory over the EPA no matter what your brand preference is.



:agree2: great post!


----------



## wendell

Kingsley said:


> So I...
> Sold my faithful 026
> 
> Marty



Dang, you don't let the grass grow under your feet do you? 

Get your 026 whupped by a 346 and it is out the door! :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Anthony_Va.

wendell said:


> Dang, you don't let the grass grow under your feet do you?
> 
> Get your 026 whupped by a 346 and it is out the door! :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Would that be the same door the 346 will be taking, now that the new king is here?:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Anthony_Va.

Dp


----------



## Anthony_Va.

Sorry Doubled.

Opps, tripled I mean.


----------



## wendell

As this thread winds down (yeah, fat chance of that :hmm3grin2orange: ) the one thing that I have found really humorous is all the people who have staunchly defended the 260 at every possible opportunity, still claiming it was the best 50cc saw out there, have suddenly jumped ship, admitting the 346 was a better saw, now that they can hang their hat on the 261.

I really like the new 261 and want to thank Brad for the time and effort he put into this thread. But, Anthony, there is no door in my 346's future! It is a great saw and I couldn't be happier with it.


----------



## blsnelling

I just finished all the mods on this 2nd 261. It has all of the same mods with the exception of still wearing the stock carb. I haven't had it in wood yet, but it's making the same RPMs as mine. If anything throttle response is even better yet. It also starts a little easier with this carb. I'll be putting it in wood to compare with mine with the bigger carb. It won't have the break-in time in it though that mine does.

BTW, squish on this one ended up at .018" without a gasket. I've not yet checked compression.


----------



## edisto

2000ssm6 said:


> Joat has a pretty slick 346, _almost_ made me drool.



Almost...guess you'll need a bib now that the 261 is crashing the party!


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> I just finished all the mods on this 2nd 261. It has all of the same mods with the exception of still wearing the stock carb. I haven't had it in wood yet, but it's making the same RPMs as mine. If anything throttle response is even better yet. It also starts a little easier with this carb. I'll be putting it in wood to compare with mine with the bigger carb. It won't have the break-in time in it though that mine does.
> 
> BTW, squish on this one ended up at .018" without a gasket. I've not yet checked compression.



Great to hear the stock carb is working well, that makes modding soooo much easier.


----------



## chopperfreak2k1

blsnelling said:


> I just finished all the mods on this 2nd 261. It has all of the same mods with the exception of still wearing the stock carb. I haven't had it in wood yet, but it's making the same RPMs as mine. If anything throttle response is even better yet. It also starts a little easier with this carb. I'll be putting it in wood to compare with mine with the bigger carb. It won't have the break-in time in it though that mine does.
> 
> BTW, squish on this one ended up at .018" without a gasket. I've not yet checked compression.



Brad, do you think the smaller venturi on the smaller carb is causing the snappier throttle response?


----------



## blsnelling

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> Brad, do you think the smaller venturi on the smaller carb is causing the snappier throttle response?



I believe so. Don't get me wrong, it's very good on mine, but excellent on this one. It also starts a little easier. I just fired it up after setting all night and it was running in three pulls, and wasn't cold natured at all after startup. Compression is already 190 PSI and it's never even seen wood yet.


----------



## Tiger Rag

blsnelling said:


> I just finished all the mods on this 2nd 261. It has all of the same mods with the exception of still wearing the stock carb. I haven't had it in wood yet, but it's making the same RPMs as mine. If anything throttle response is even better yet. It also starts a little easier with this carb. I'll be putting it in wood to compare with mine with the bigger carb. It won't have the break-in time in it though that mine does.
> 
> BTW, squish on this one ended up at .018" without a gasket. I've not yet checked compression.



Looking forward to the comparitive results of this new 261 in the same cant vs yours with the larger carb. 

This new 261 will represent the standard of what you will port going forward for a standard woods port?


----------



## Officer's Match

blsnelling said:


> I believe so. Don't get me wrong, it's very good on mine, but excellent on this one. It also starts a little easier. I just fired it up after setting all night and it was running in three pulls, and wasn't cold natured at all after startup. Compression is already 190 PSI and it's never even seen wood yet.



I've really got to find the willpower to stop clicking into this threat before it's too late. BTW Brad, did you get that 346 you mentioned a while ago sold?


----------



## blsnelling

Officer's Match said:


> BTW Brad, did you get that 346 you mentioned a while ago sold?



It's still here. It won't last long though. I sell them pretty regularly. I get the saw for $465, mods are $250, and the unlimited coil is $40. That's $755 shipped to your door. That includes a 16" bar and chisel chain, shipped in the original box.


----------



## blsnelling

Tiger Rag said:


> Looking forward to the comparitive results of this new 261 in the same cant vs yours with the larger carb.
> 
> *This new 261 will represent the standard of what you will port going forward for a standard woods port*?



That is correct.


----------



## nmurph

i still want to see a comparo of a stock 346 vs a stock 261 in consistant wood, about 15 cuts with each saw and the same operator. then MM and repeat. both saws are rated within .05 hp and i happen to believe that the manufacturers ratings are probably pretty close. i am not saying the 261 isn't faster, but there are enough descrepancies to make this celebratory crowning a bit premature. before we throw the 346 into the trash heap and crown a new king, lets get some better data. 
Brad, i'm not pointing any fingers at you. i think you did the best you could. you thought you had a good cant, but you admit that it lacked consistancy. i appreciate your effort to give us a preview of a saw that 99% of us can't lay a finger on. keep up the great work.


----------



## sunfish

nmurph said:


> i still want to see a comparo of a stock 346 vs a stock 261 in consistant wood, about 15 cuts with each saw and the same operator. then MM and repeat. both saws are rated within .05 hp and i happen to believe that the manufacturers ratings are probably pretty close. i am not saying the 261 isn't faster, but there are enough descrepancies to make this celebratory crowning a bit premature. before we throw the 346 into the trash heap and crown a new king, lets get some better data.
> Brad, i'm not pointing any fingers at you. i think you did the best you could. you thought you had a good cant, but you admit that it lacked consistancy. i appreciate your effort to give us a preview of a saw that 99% of us can't lay a finger on. keep up the great work.



I agree,  The 261 looks real good and I'm not a Stilh basher...But?

Also, my new 346 is a dog with only a 1/2 tank run through it, *the old 346 will kick it's ass and eat it's lunch*. But I know this will change. Maybe one saw takes longer, or responds different to break-in period???

Lot of variables.


----------



## Kingsley

The 346 did give my 0ld 026 a serious butt kicking. It reminded me of when I decided that my old faithful 041av had to go. The modern saws cut so much faster. It only takes an experience like last Saturday to make that sink in for me.

I can't say I didn't want to update the saw before to a 260 pro, but with the 261 it is a no brainer.

The only thing that is bugging me Wendall, is that we won't be able to do our own side by side comparison without a big variable. I'm going to put an 18" bar on mine to bridge the gap better between the 261 and my 25" bar on my 460.

Heck even "File" is thinking about selling his 345 and getting the 261.

Marty


----------



## wendell

Or maybe you could both get 2153's?!? :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling

nmurph said:


> i still want to see a comparo of a stock 346 vs a stock 261 in consistant wood, about 15 cuts with each saw and the same operator. then MM and repeat. both saws are rated within .05 hp and i happen to believe that the manufacturers ratings are probably pretty close. i am not saying the 261 isn't faster, but there are enough descrepancies to make this celebratory crowning a bit premature. before we throw the 346 into the trash heap and crown a new king, lets get some better data.
> Brad, i'm not pointing any fingers at you. i think you did the best you could. you thought you had a good cant, but you admit that it lacked consistancy. i appreciate your effort to give us a preview of a saw that 99% of us can't lay a finger on. keep up the great work.



There is absolutely no question which saw is strongest stock. There is a marked difference in them. There can't help but be with the compression difference.


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> There is absolutely no question which saw is strongest stock. There is a marked difference in them. There can't help but be with the compression difference.



:agree2:

That was never really in question, how much stronger was, it's looks like it's 11% faster in the cut. Does this mean it's 11% stronger? I doubt, but it's a noticeable difference. Just because it's a little stronger doesn't mean it's the new king. Hi Nik.


----------



## TRI955

blsnelling said:


> There is absolutely no question which saw is strongest stock. There is a marked difference in them. There can't help but be with the compression difference.



Looks like Brad found his creamsickle goggles again...oke:

I would really like to run the 261 though.


----------



## blsnelling

TRI955 said:


> Looks like Brad found his creamsickle goggles again...oke:



Maybe so, but you'll never catch me with brand colored blinders on


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> :agree2:
> 
> That was never really in question, how much stronger was, it's looks like it's 11% faster in the cut. Does this mean it's 11% stronger? I doubt, but it's a noticeable difference. Just because it's a little stronger doesn't mean it's the new king. Hi Nik.



It takes strength, ie torque/HP, to cut faster, does it not? Give it up, looser:rockn:


----------



## Andyshine77

I've lost nothing!!:angry2:


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> I've lost nothing!!:angry2:



Your saw's the queen now Mine's the king, lol.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

Yeah but it's no where near my 260.


----------



## blsnelling

WoodChucker81 said:


> Yeah but it's no where near my 260.



You're right. It's faster


----------



## BloodOnTheIce

WoodChucker81 said:


> Yeah but it's no where near my 260.



offer still stands 125$:rockn:


----------



## blsnelling

BloodOnTheIce said:


> offer still stands 125$:rockn:



Now that's not even nice, lol.


----------



## 8433jeff

Put some 110 racing gas in her Andyshine and it'll have mo power for sure, and quit trolling the thread, Brad. lol


----------



## blsnelling

8433jeff said:


> Put some 110 racing gas in her Andyshine and it'll have mo power for sure, and quit trolling the thread, Brad. lol



:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## 2000ssm6

nmurph said:


> i still want to see a comparo of a stock 346 vs a stock 261 in consistant wood, about 15 cuts with each saw and the same operator. then MM and repeat. both saws are rated within .05 hp and i happen to believe that the manufacturers ratings are probably pretty close. i am not saying the 261 isn't faster, but there are enough descrepancies to make this celebratory crowning a bit premature. before we throw the 346 into the trash heap and crown a new king, lets get some better data.
> Brad, i'm not pointing any fingers at you. i think you did the best you could. you thought you had a good cant, but you admit that it lacked consistancy. i appreciate your effort to give us a preview of a saw that 99% of us can't lay a finger on. keep up the great work.



The 261 is a hard pill to swallow, for a 346 lover. However, don't throw your 346 in the trash, sent it to me.


----------



## Wild Knight

Andyshine77 said:


> :agree2:
> 
> That was never really in question, how much stronger was, it's looks like it's 11% faster in the cut. Does this mean it's 11% stronger? I doubt, but it's a noticeable difference. Just because it's a little stronger doesn't mean it's the new king. Hi Nik.



The 346 stock isn't 11% faster than the 260, stock. Yet, somehow it got the crown. The 346 is old news now; let it go, man, let it go.


----------



## nmurph

2000ssm6 said:


> The 261 is a hard pill to swallow, for a 346 lover. However, don't throw your 346 in the trash, sent it to me.



not really, not for the unbiased person. but bf i drop the cash, i want to see some accurate numbers and put one in my hand so that i can see how it feels.


----------



## 2000ssm6

nmurph said:


> not really, not for the unbiased person. but bf i drop the cash, i want to see some accurate numbers and put one in my hand so that i can see how it feels.



I don't blame ya.


----------



## 2000ssm6

wendell said:


> As this thread winds down (yeah, fat chance of that :hmm3grin2orange: ) the one thing that I have found really humorous is all the people who have staunchly defended the 260 at every possible opportunity, still claiming it was the best 50cc saw out there, have suddenly jumped ship, admitting the 346 was a better saw, now that they can hang their hat on the 261.
> 
> I really like the new 261 and want to thank Brad for the time and effort he put into this thread. But, Anthony, there is no door in my 346's future! It is a great saw and I couldn't be happier with it.



I'll stand by the 260 as the best IMO. The 346 is a nice 'un, just never felt good to me. No mistake it had more power and I never argued that, some make it sound like 3-4hp difference though. I'm going to buy a 261 but won't be selling my 026s, not one in particular anyway. If the 261 proves not to hold up, I can always fall back on old faithful.


----------



## blsnelling

Wild Knight said:


> The 346 stock isn't 11% faster than the 260, stock. Yet, somehow it got the crown. The 346 is old news now; let it go, man, let it go.



12.4% faster.


----------



## indiansprings

Being a self admitted StihlHead, I bougth a 346xpne last fall, mm'd the saw and was extremely pleased with the saw. It's lightning throttle response and handling characteristics made it the best limb/ homeowner firewood saw I had run. I sung the praises of the saw on here as much as anyone.

Stopped by my Stihl dealer yesterday, had even heard of a 261, lol.
When he does get them in I will definetly give one a try. If the saw lives up to the hype, I'll be the first to trade in the 346. Not for the extra speed, but simply because I can stick a 3/8 18" bar on it and run the same chain set up I do on 80% of my firewood saws. It would be worth the convienence to me.

I do prefer the inboard clutch, the only gripe I have about the 346 is it falls over all the time. If I trade it's definetly not because of the Husky/Stihl branding as the 346 exceeded every expectation I had of the saw. 

People need to take the "brand" glasses off. Competition is what keeps making saws better. What made Stihl create 261 to perform like it does,
prolly the way the 346 performed. Husky will prolly use the 261 as the benchmark to beat when they replace the 346. It's all good for the end user, we get a product that has improved performance and prolly will use less fuel.

Stihl certainly seems to have put the money and engineering in the line of "strato" saws. Hopefully Husky will be as successful. The competition drives innovation.


----------



## chopperfreak2k1

blsnelling said:


> 12.4% faster.



quiet you!!!


----------



## parrisw

What about this 346?

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4a2LxMagYlY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4a2LxMagYlY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## MacLaren

parrisw said:


> What about this 346?
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4a2LxMagYlY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4a2LxMagYlY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>



Jesus!


----------



## blsnelling

parrisw said:


> What about this 346?



More than likely a race chain. A fast chain is worth as much gain as a port job. Is that a stock appearing race saw Brian?


----------



## Philbert

parrisw said:


> What about this 346?



Video looks slightly edited. Is that 'Parris W. Zapruder'?

Philbert


----------



## 2000ssm6

parrisw said:


> What about this 346?
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4a2LxMagYlY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4a2LxMagYlY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>



You should see what he can do with an 026 of you think that is fast.


----------



## wendell

2000ssm6 said:


> I'll stand by the 260 as the best IMO. The 346 is a nice 'un, just never felt good to me. No mistake it had more power and I never argued that, some make it sound like 3-4hp difference though. I'm going to buy a 261 but won't be selling my 026s, not one in particular anyway. If the 261 proves not to hold up, I can always fall back on old faithful.



And that is the point pre-261 and post. I owned a 260 Pro for a week. I hoped to keep it as I need to add a Stihl to my line up but was so unimpressed with it, I just sold it on CL. I can't believe anyone would like a 260 better but I guess that is why it is good we all have choices. Now I have to keep my eye out for a 880!


----------



## wendell

2000ssm6 said:


> You should see what he can do with an 026 of you think that is fast.



What drugs do you take? I think I'd like to try some!


----------



## Anthony_Va.

It's not even a question whether I would swap my 260 out for a 346xp or not. The 346, IMO, is the better saw all around. And the weight difference in most any two saws, including these two, is something I just can't ever feel. 

Now I can't wait to try out the 261. I have kept my 260 all this time because I just did'nt feel like selling it, but the 261 might end up taking it's place if it's as awesome as it looks so far.


----------



## caotropheus

Anthony_Va. said:


> Now I can't wait to try out the 261. I have kept my 260 all this time because I just did'nt feel like selling it, but the 261 might end up taking it's place if it's as awesome as it looks so far.



Somehow I am in the same sort of dilemma. I have a 270 that beats for sure in bulk and weight the trustworthy 260 and 346. So the question is, should I wait for the promising 261 to replace the 270? Experts, I am open to suggestions.


----------



## Anthony_Va.

caotropheus said:


> Somehow I am in the same sort of dilemma. I have a 270 that beats for sure in bulk and weight the trustworthy 260 and 346. So the question is, should I wait for the promising 261 to replace the 270? Experts, I am open to suggestions.



I'd say if you are looking for a good 50cc saw, then it may well be wise to give the 261 a try first. It's looking up for that saw for sure.

I would never buy a saw sight unseen. Just have to run them first.


----------



## sbhooper

Wendell,
There IS a difference between a 260 and the pro. The pro does not have an adjustable high end on the carb. The 260 can be adjusted and so doing a muffler mod on it is easy. It will run far better than a stock 260 pro.


----------



## Andyshine77

8433jeff said:


> Put some 110 racing gas in her Andyshine and it'll have mo power for sure, and quit trolling the thread, Brad. lol



I do have pink stuff that doesn't like the sun very much.


----------



## blsnelling

"We four kings of chainsaws are..."


----------



## 2000ssm6

blsnelling said:


> "We four kings of chainsaws are..."



Like 'em that much eh??:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling

2000ssm6 said:


> Like 'em that much eh??:hmm3grin2orange:



One for each hand and foot


----------



## 2000ssm6

blsnelling said:


> One for each hand and foot



LOL, all of 'em sold?


----------



## blsnelling

2000ssm6 said:


> LOL, all of 'em sold?



Yup.


----------



## breymeyerfam

blsnelling said:


> One for each hand and foot



thats cool and all, but i dont want to know what the fifth one is for that you said you are picking up tomorrow...:monkey:


----------



## rms61moparman

All but one!
You can bet there is ONE there that won't be going ANYWHERE anytime soon!!!
I can't say that I blame him either.
I can't wait to see what he can do with the 560xp!


Mike


----------



## blsnelling

breymeyerfam said:


> thats cool and all, but i dont want to know what the fifth one is for that you said you are picking up tomorrow...:monkey:



That one's sold too.


----------



## blsnelling

rms61moparman said:


> All but one!
> *You can bet there is ONE there that won't be going ANYWHERE anytime soon!!!*I can't say that I blame him either.
> I can't wait to see what he can do with the 560xp!
> 
> 
> Mike



You got that right! Mine is the one on the far left with the 20" B&C. Next to it is a 18", and then two with 16".


----------



## Andyshine77

Brad stop posting pics of that saw, you're making me want one of those pos.:welcome:


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> Brad stop posting pics of that saw, you're making me want one of those pos.:welcome:



Come and get one


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> Come and get one



Seriously? do you have an extra one?


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> Seriously? do you have an extra one?



I can always get more One of these is not paid for yet, but should be shortly. If you want it, I'm here. You can come run Mike's saw while you're at it


----------



## D&B Mack

Ran into the Stihl rep at the saw shop today, he confirmed not 261's yet. Earliest end of December. The wait is killing me...opcorn:


----------



## sunfish

D&B Mack said:


> Ran into the Stihl rep at the saw shop today, he confirmed not 261's yet. Earliest end of December. The wait is killing me...opcorn:


They seem to be flowing pretty good in Ohio


----------



## Andyshine77

CAD sucks.


----------



## 2000ssm6

wendell said:


> What drugs do you take? I think I'd like to try some!



Your 346 would pizz bar oil all over itself, trust me.


----------



## porsche965

Picked up a MS261 late today. They have more (in Ohio where I am now) 

Will put it in wood tomorrow and see how it feels. Looks fine so far.


----------



## blsnelling

porsche965 said:


> Picked up a MS261 late today. They have more (in Ohio where I am now)
> 
> Will put it in wood tomorrow and see how it feels. Looks fine so far.



Excellent. Please do report your opinion.


----------



## Wind Walker

blsnelling said:


> I can always get more One of these is not paid for yet, but should be shortly. If you want it, I'm here. You can come run Mike's saw while you're at it



So what is the going rate for one of these new saws? My dealer says it will be awhile yet, and he couldn't even give me a price. Just curious how much they're fetchin'?

The Stihl Demo truck is coming in a few weeks, I would hope they have a 261 on board to try out.

Thanks,
Mike


----------



## Scandy14

indiansprings said:


> Being a self admitted StihlHead, I bougth a 346xpne last fall, mm'd the saw and was extremely pleased with the saw. It's lightning throttle response and handling characteristics made it the best limb/ homeowner firewood saw I had run. I sung the praises of the saw on here as much as anyone.
> 
> Stopped by my Stihl dealer yesterday, had even heard of a 261, lol.
> When he does get them in I will definetly give one a try. If the saw lives up to the hype, I'll be the first to trade in the 346. Not for the extra speed, but simply because I can stick a 3/8 18" bar on it and run the same chain set up I do on 80% of my firewood saws. It would be worth the convienence to me.
> 
> I do prefer the inboard clutch, the only gripe I have about the 346 is it falls over all the time. If I trade it's definetly not because of the Husky/Stihl branding as the 346 exceeded every expectation I had of the saw.
> 
> People need to take the "brand" glasses off. Competition is what keeps making saws better. What made Stihl create 261 to perform like it does,
> prolly the way the 346 performed. Husky will prolly use the 261 as the benchmark to beat when they replace the 346. It's all good for the end user, we get a product that has improved performance and prolly will use less fuel.
> 
> Stihl certainly seems to have put the money and engineering in the line of "strato" saws. Hopefully Husky will be as successful. The competition drives innovation.



Great post!


----------



## Taxmantoo

Kingsley said:


> I told them I know someone who has had theirs for a week and is going to pick up their 2nd. They simply acted like this baffled them.
> 
> What do I do?



Pick up a new Stihl calendar from your dealer, and laugh at Brad because his dealer doesn't have them and never will.


----------



## blsnelling

taxmantoo said:


> Pick up a new Stihl calendar from your dealer, and laugh at Brad because his dealer doesn't have them and never will.



That's OK. I'll keep my saws, you can have the calendars


----------



## Taxmantoo

blsnelling said:


> That's OK. I'll keep my saws, you can have the calendars



Not me. My area is served by the same woman distributor who despises all females that look better than her.


----------



## blsnelling

Here's is the second 261 I've done. It's the same as mine, except wearing the stock carb. However, it's had 0 break-in. These are the very first cuts it has made. While there is a measurable difference, it still makes a screamin' 50cc saw. Both saws are cutting in the 5s in this Oak cant.

Replacing the carb is a considerable amount more work and costs, and is not part of your typical woods port. FYI, I will not be offering the larger carb mod. I don't have the carbs, or the time.

BTW, if you listen closely, right before the last cut I make with my saw, you can hear it hit the limiter. It's not a tuning issue though, because it' properly tuned when just off the limiter by a hair.


The stock carb is first, and then mine.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UWHvrS8cjuA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UWHvrS8cjuA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Tiger Rag

blsnelling said:


> Here's is the second 261 I've done. It's the same as mine, except wearing the stock carb. However, it's had 0 break-in. These are the very first cuts it has made. While there is a measurable difference, it still makes a screamin' 50cc saw. Both saws are cutting in the 5s in this Oak cant.
> 
> Replacing the carb is a considerable amount more work and costs, and is not part of your typical woods port. FYI, I will not be offering the larger carb mod. I don't have the carbs, or the time.
> 
> BTW, if you listen closely, right before the last cut I make with my saw, you can hear it hit the limiter. It's not a tuning issue though, because it' properly tuned when just off the limiter by a hair.



I can see the difference but it does still cut strong. I'm guessing it will improve too as it breaks in. Impressive saws.

.....which leads me to the question......Are you going to keep the larger carb on yours or go ahead and buy a stock carb to put back on it?

I was at my local Stihl dealer today buying a new blower and asked them about the MS261 and they had no clue either. Kinda funny how this is such a secret. The had 2 MS260's on the shelf though....I guess that is why.


----------



## blsnelling

Tiger Rag said:


> Are you going to keep the larger carb on yours or go ahead and buy a stock carb to put back on it?



Yes, I'll definately be keeping the larger carb on mine. I've got all functionality working again, including choke, fast idle, and idle speed adjustment.


----------



## TonyRumore

I have stayed out of this thread as long as possible.........but, crap, for a 50cc saw, that thing is hauling ass through that wood. I thought I had a nice running 026, but it's nothing like that!

I don't need another saw, but I'm getting one of those just for the hell of it.

Tony


----------



## D&B Mack

TonyRumore said:


> I don't need another saw, but I'm getting one of those just for the hell of it.
> 
> Tony



Spoken like a true CADer.


----------



## blsnelling

TonyRumore said:


> I don't need another saw, but I'm getting one of those just for the hell of it.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

blsnelling said:


> Now that's not even nice, lol.



Yeah he's a real jerk ain't he??


----------



## blsnelling

WoodChucker81 said:


> Yeah he's a real jerk ain't he??



Who needs enemies when you have friends like that


----------



## Taxmantoo

If the stock saw with the modified muffler is slower than the stock saw, how fast is the ported saw with stock muffler and carburetor?


----------



## blsnelling

taxmantoo said:


> If the stock saw with the modified muffler is slower than the stock saw, how fast is the ported saw with stock muffler and carburetor?



What?


----------



## brncreeper

:newbie:


----------



## Andyshine77

taxmantoo said:


> If the stock saw with the modified muffler is slower than the stock saw, how fast is the ported saw with stock muffler and carburetor?



<img src="http://www.myemoticons.com/avatars/images/bad-boys/burp.jpg" border="0" alt="Burp" title="Burp" />


----------



## CHEVYTOWN13

brncreeper said:


> :newbie:



Where you been creepin' bro


----------



## Outlaw5.0

What is the fuel usage like on the ported 261's?.


----------



## Andyshine77

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> Where you been creepin' bro



LOL English people English.


----------



## blsnelling

Outlaw5.0 said:


> What is the fuel usage like on the ported 261's?.



I haven't had it back out for regular work since the porting.


----------



## dieselram

Brad, have you ran any of those 261's against any other saws??? I mean like a MS361, MS440, 372... How would it fair against them??? Just out of curiosity...


----------



## blsnelling

dieselram said:


> Brad, have you ran any of those 261's against any other saws??? I mean like a MS361, MS440, 372... How would it fair against them??? Just out of curiosity...



It was faster than Nik's ported MS361 and on the heals of Andre's ported 372XP. That was in perhaps 16" Basswood.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1qBkn0QQTOE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1qBkn0QQTOE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Anthony_Va.

SO it's hanging with ported 372's and beating ported 361's? 

It's a bad mutha shut yo mouth! 

I just want one more and more every day. After the new year I'm gonna start my journey to a new ported 261. Brad I hope you don't get too busy. I'll be buggin you in a few months.


----------



## 2000ssm6

Andyshine77 said:


> LOL English people English.



Thats jibberish for "I want a 261"


----------



## blsnelling

2000ssm6 said:


> Thats jibberish for "I want a 261"



Gangsta rap comes to mind.


----------



## dieselram

Awesome video!!! Those 346's sound like pissed off mosquitoes... The MS261 even sounds like it has more power... and it has a longer bar too boot... I got to get me one of those... MS261!!!!!


----------



## blsnelling

dieselram said:


> Awesome video!!! Those 346's sound like pissed off mosquitoes... The MS261 even sounds like it has more power... and it has a longer bar too boot... I got to get me one of those... MS261!!!!!



I have a brand new 20" B&C for the 346. I really need to make that comparison. I think the 261 will show it's real colors.


----------



## 2000ssm6

blsnelling said:


> I think the 261 will show it's real colors.



And the 346 lovers will also.


----------



## Andyshine77

dieselram said:


> Awesome video!!! Those 346's sound like pissed off mosquitoes... The MS261 even sounds like it has more power... and it has a longer bar too boot... I got to get me one of those... MS261!!!!!



The longer bar actually helps, anytime the tip of the bar does any cutting it slows you down. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the strato saws have a lot potential, and the 261 is proof of that. How long will a 50cc that likely puts out 5.5hp or better last? who knows, but as of now what's not to like.


----------



## CHEVYTOWN13

2000ssm6 said:


> Thats jibberish for "I want a 261"



That jibberish actually translates to..."2k, you can shove that 261 deep into uranus:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 2000ssm6

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> That jibberish actually translates to..."2k, you can shove that 261 deep into uranus:hmm3grin2orange:



Awe, you know you want one.


----------



## blsnelling

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> That jibberish actually translates to..."2k, you can shove that 261 deep into uranus:hmm3grin2orange:



And that we could have done without


----------



## wendell

2000ssm6 said:


> And the 346 lovers will also.



In other words, act like you have in defending the 260?


----------



## sunfish

wendell said:


> In other words, act like you have in defending the 260?


Don't it get very old after awhile?


----------



## 2000ssm6

wendell said:


> In other words, act like you have in defending the 260?



, no need to defend the 260. It has been a great saw and just like the 440, it's RIP has come. Will this 261 be a good replacement for the tried and true 260? Looks like it..


----------



## 2000ssm6

sunfish said:


> Don't it get very old after awhile?



The pot calling the kettle black???


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> taxmantoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the stock saw with the modified muffler is slower than the stock saw, how fast is the ported saw with stock muffler and carburetor?
> 
> 
> 
> What?
Click to expand...


Fair question actually...both saws ran more slowly with a muffler mod, so maybe stock mufflers will be the latest hot power trick.


----------



## blsnelling

edisto said:


> Fair question actually...both saws ran more slowly with a muffler mod, so maybe stock mufflers will be the latest hot power trick.



What in the world are you talking about? The 261 picked up more than 10%.


----------



## sunfish

2000ssm6 said:


> The pot calling the kettle black???



Naw, I don't have enough posts


----------



## 2000ssm6

sunfish said:


> Naw, I don't have enough posts



Slowly but surely. Troll would be proud!:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## sunfish

2000ssm6 said:


> Slowly but surely. Troll would be proud!:biggrinbounce2:



No worries, I'll never catch ya.

We did just agree in another thread though.


----------



## 2000ssm6

sunfish said:


> No worries, I'll never catch ya.
> 
> We did just agree in another thread though.



Don't worry about catching me, I don't drink the 346 kool aid. Troll however, has 30,000 posts. 15,000 are hating on the 026/260 and 15,000 are preaching about the 346.

I can agree when needed. My new Redmax *** has really gotten the Stihl Gods pee-ed off. I need to buy a 261 to offset the wrath.


----------



## sunfish

2000ssm6 said:


> Don't worry about catching me, I don't drink the 346 kool aid. Troll however, has 30,000 posts. 15,000 are hating on the 026/260 and 15,000 are preaching about the 346.
> 
> I can agree when needed. My new Redmax *** has really gotten the Stihl Gods pee-ed off. I need to buy a 261 to offset the wrath.



I'm not Troll and I don't bash Stihl, but he's OK.

I also don't drink the kool aid, I go by experience. 

I have a Stihl FS110 BTW umpkin2:


----------



## atvguns

Stihl FS110, just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber you totally redeam youself :yourock::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> What in the world are you talking about? The 261 picked up more than 10%.



Post #983 compares the times based on the videos you posted.


----------



## Andyshine77

Ed I think maybe you have some of the vids mixed up, the day we did the stock vs mm test the 261 cut times were 10-12% faster with a mm.


----------



## blsnelling

edisto said:


> Post #983 compares the times based on the videos you posted.



I don't know what you put in your graphs, but I certainly never posted that the 261 was slower with a muffler mod.


----------



## edisto

Andyshine77 said:


> Ed I think maybe you have some of the vids mixed up, the day we did the stock vs mm test the 261 cut times were 10-12% faster with a mm.





blsnelling said:


> I don't know what you put in your graphs, but I certainly never posted that the 261 was slower with a muffler mod.



As I said when I posted the graphs, what is in the graphs are average of times based on the videos you posted. I timed each cut 4 times, and used the average as the cut time for that saw, then averaged across the number of cuts for each saw.

If you search Google for "stopwatch", you get a page with a stopwatch. I just reduce the windows with the video and the stopwatch and time as I watch.

My understanding was that the first 2 cuts shown on post 240 was the stock MS241. I got 7.448 sec for the first cut and 6.976 sec for the second, for an average of 7.212 sec. According to the video, the last 2 cuts were with the muffler mod. For those I got times of 7.167 sec and 7.613 sec for an average of 7.390 sec.

7.39 > 7.212.


----------



## blsnelling

edisto said:


> As I said when I posted the graphs, what is in the graphs are average of times based on the videos you posted. I timed each cut 4 times, and used the average as the cut time for that saw, then averaged across the number of cuts for each saw.
> 
> If you search Google for "stopwatch", you get a page with a stopwatch. I just reduce the windows with the video and the stopwatch and time as I watch.
> 
> My understanding was that the first 2 cuts shown on post 240 was the stock MS241. I got 7.448 sec for the first cut and 6.976 sec for the second, for an average of 7.212 sec. According to the video, the last 2 cuts were with the muffler mod. For those I got times of 7.167 sec and 7.613 sec for an average of 7.390 sec.
> 
> 7.39 > 7.212.



Like I said, I don't know what you put in your graphs, but the 261 was decidedly 10-12% faster with the MM.


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> Like I said, I don't know what you put in your graphs, but the 261 was decidedly 10-12% faster with the MM.



I told you what went into the graphs.

The video you posted in post 240 shows 4 cuts with the MS261.

That's where I got the numbers. From your video.

The average of the first 2 cuts is faster than the average of the second 2 cuts.

If the first 2 cuts are, as labeled, the stock 261, and the second 2 cuts are, as labeled, the muffler modded 261, then the average of what you showed has to be interpreted as a loss.

You could take the fastest of the 2 MM times, and compare it to the slowest of the stock times and show a 4% gain, but if you do the reverse, it shows an 8.5% increase using the stock muffler.

So...what I am saying is that you keep saying "10% increase", but what you showed was a loss.

When I posted the results, I expected you to tell me the videos are mixed up, or not representative, i.e., you have data from a lot of cuts. 

In other words, I wasn't calling BS, I thought I was pointing out an anomaly. 

It is quite possible I don't explain myself well, and that the fact that I was comparing the times from the videos on post 240 was unclear in all 3 of my attempts to explain it.

Your stubborn insistence that you have no idea where I got the numbers was OK once, but twice? It's starting to sound more like denial.

So do you use averages when you calculate your gains? If so, how many cuts do you average for each saw?


----------



## blsnelling

It's not denial, it's that I didn't even look at the graphs. I know that how the saw performed and what my findings were matched. Why don't you go buy a 261 and do your own testing? I'm tired of you crapping on my thread. I totally understand your point that there is significant variance in my findings. But I found out exactly what I wanted to find out, and believe most AS members appreciate seeing it.


----------



## blsnelling

Another problem with what you've done with the data is that not all cuts shown were for optimal cut times. Some of them were lugged down simply to show the torque of the saw. That makes your graphs completely unrepresentative of the actual results.


----------



## sunfish

atvguns said:


> Stihl FS110, just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber you totally redeam youself :yourock::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



:hmm3grin2orange: 

Hey man, I like both brands. Just like one a little better than the other umpkin2:


----------



## Officer's Match

blsnelling said:


> Another problem with what you've done with the data is that not all cuts shown were for optimal cut times. Some of them were lugged down simply to show the torque of the saw. That makes your graphs completely unrepresentative of the actual results.



Brad, I'm sure I speak for many when I say thank you for taking the time and effort to expose us to this very interesting new saw. It would appear that it can really push the envelope for a 50cc chainsaw.

This has been a long and sometimes winding thread. I've been thru it's entirety, but will admit that a definitive summary from the source (you) would be helpful. I'm not so much talking numbers, but more so subjective findings your hands have revealed. A few ideas (rehashed in many instances)

1. Stock
2. Modded muffler
3. Ported
4. "big carbed"
5. stratofied vs de-strated

These can be as compared to the benchmark yardstick 346, but don't necessarily need to be. I think we pretty much know we have a winner of a saw, but it never hurts to know more. Again, it's more your subjective feel I'm thinking would be beneficial here, as well as your take on effective mods.


----------



## blsnelling

Officer's Match said:


> 1. Stock
> 2. Modded muffler
> 3. Ported
> 4. "big carbed"
> 5. stratofied vs de-strated



1. The strongest 50cc saw I've ever ran. Great torque and speed right out of the box.
2. MM made significant gains. WOT RPM was no higher, but added to the already impressive torque of the saw, allowing it to hold more RPMs in the wood.
3. The final porting made a big difference. Combined with advancing the ignition timing, speed is greatly improved. The saw does not become peaky in the least. It's still super torquey, all across the powerband.
4. Without a stopwatch, the big carb can not really be notice. However, it does make a significant difference in timed cuts. It's just not really felt when simply working the saw.
5. De-stratofying the saw was a must to get the power in the saw. I wouldn't waste my time porting one without this.
6. How does it compare to the 346? Chain speed is obviously very similiar, since cuts times are so close. But the 261 feels stronger. It's less peaky with more bottom end grunt. I have not had a 20" B&C on the 346 yet, but believe the 261 will start to walk away from it.


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> It's not denial, it's that I didn't even look at the graphs. I know that how the saw performed and what my findings were matched. Why don't you go buy a 261 and do your own testing? I'm tired of you crapping on my thread. I totally understand your point that there is significant variance in my findings. But I found out exactly what I wanted to find out, and believe most AS members appreciate seeing it.



The last line is pretty funny actually, but I can see you have lost your sense of humor.

At what point was I crapping on your thread? I have offered advice on how to perform such a comparison properly, and I have asked about how the data were collected and what data were used. I did so because the answers to those questions are critical in terms of how the data are interpreted.

I design experiments, analyze data, and review other peoples experimental design and analysis for a living. There's always a big difference between what you know and what you can show, and a lack of agreement between the 2 often is simply the result of a flaw in the experiment. 

You bemoaned the fact that you couldn't even get repeatable numbers from the same saw because of inconsistencies in the cant. I suggested the means by which you could make valid comparisons under these circumstances. I do not view this as "crapping" on your thread any more than you posting that someone's saw sounds lean when they post a video of what they have done.



blsnelling said:


> Another problem with what you've done with the data is that not all cuts shown were for optimal cut times. Some of them were lugged down simply to show the torque of the saw. That makes your graphs completely unrepresentative of the actual results.



That makes your videos unrepresentative of the actual results. Fair enough. Maybe there's a lesson there.

The graphs that you didn't look at, but say aren't representative, actually agreed with your narrative once I realized I had to dump the 8-pin data. The only exception was the muffler mod on the 261.

If you are interested in learning how to improve your comparisons, and how to analyse the results, I'll be glad to help. I can't think of a good reason why someone would not want to improve their methodology.

Just realize that if you play the persecution card when someone asks for clarification of your results, it tends to raise suspicions rather than alleviate them. I have no problem with your interpretation of what you did, but I cannot understand your reluctance to address the data.


----------



## Officer's Match

blsnelling said:


> 1. The strongest 50cc saw I've ever ran. Great torque and speed right out of the box.
> 2. MM made significant gains. WOT RPM was no higher, but added to the already impressive torque of the saw, allowing it to hold more RPMs in the wood.
> 3. The final porting made a big difference. Combined with advancing the ignition timing, speed is greatly improved. The saw does not become peaky in the least. It's still super torquey, all across the powerband.
> 4. Without a stopwatch, the big carb can not really be notice. However, it does make a significant difference in timed cuts. It's just not really felt when simply working the saw.
> 5. De-stratofying the saw was a must to get the power in the saw. I wouldn't waste my time porting one without this.
> 6. How does it compare to the 346? Chain speed is obviously very similiar, since cuts times are so close. But the 261 feels stronger. It's less peaky with more bottom end grunt. I have not had a 20" B&C on the 346 yet, but believe the 261 will start to walk away from it.



Thank you sir, you answered my request above and beyond.


----------



## blsnelling

Edisto, I'm realize you're a very intelligent man, and have offered some good testing advice. I appreciate that. Reading your background, it's understandable that my "experimenting" methods, or lack there of, bother you. This is what you do, you know how to do it well, and it bugs you to see someone screw it up. I understand that, I really do. However, I don't have the time, wood, or ambition to do testing to the level you're talking about. I only set out to get a good idea how the saw would perform at different levels of modification and compare that to a 346. In my own mind, I satisfied that. From your vantage point, my finding are completely dismisable, because they don't stand up to the rigor of a well designed scientific and repeatable test. But they told me what I wanted to know.

You stated that my videos are unrepresentative of the actual results. The problem here is that I did not create the videos to be used as you did. Not only did I want to show the fastest cut times the saw was capable of, but I wanted to show how the saw ran under varying loads. Therefore you cannot use all cut times shown as the best cut times the saw is capable of. Again, they met my goals, but not yours as scientific test data.

Yes, I have lost my sense of humor. I understand your view point, but you have come across as simply trying to discredit everything I've shown here. While not perfect testing, I put a LOT of effert into this, and accomplished what I set out to do.

Thank you for your cordial reply. We're just on different pages here


----------



## blsnelling

Officer's Match said:


> Thank you sir, you answered my request above and beyond.



I don't mind answering specific questions, such as you posed, but I don't have the time or energy to go back through 75 pages of posts and re-state all my findings for convenience sake, as some have asked. I realize it's a lot to sort through, but it's all here, and I already posted it once. When you get into the middle of a big experiment like this, it starts to turn to work after a while. I'm out of energy on this one to go back and rewrite it all again. I'm not trying to be snippy, but saying it from my vantage point.


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> Edisto, I'm realize you're a very intelligent man, and have offered some good testing advice. I appreciate that. Reading your background, it's understandable that my "experimenting" methods, or lack there of, bother you. This is what you do, you know how to do it well, and it bugs you to see someone screw it up. I understand that, I really do.



Doesn't bother me, and I didn't say you screwed it up. Everyone operates under constraints, and those constraints do not necessarily mean that an experiment cannot be done. It just means the results have to be interpreted with care, and that one should be extremely cautious about throwing numbers around.



blsnelling said:


> However, I don't have the time, wood, or ambition to do testing to the level you're talking about. I only set out to get a good idea how the saw would perform at different levels of modification and compare that to a 346. In my own mind, I satisfied that.



I think you misunderstood my recommendations. You do have the resources. One simple change will add a lot to the comparability of future results. Instead of making X number of cuts with saw 1 followed by X number of cuts with saw 2, make the same number of cuts, but alternate the saws. That should reduce the variation due to inconsistency of the cant.

Then, to make the comparison, you can compare the averages.

To compare pre- and post mod, where you cannot alternate the cuts, you would need more cuts because you cannot alternate. In this case, you might not have enough wood to do enough cuts, especially if the wood is inconsistent. The more inconsistent the wood is, the larger the number of cuts you would have to make with each saw.




blsnelling said:


> From your vantage point, my finding are completely dismisable, because they don't stand up to the rigor of a well designed scientific and repeatable test. But they told me what I wanted to know.



I never said that your findings are dismissable...I'm just saying you cannot give them too much weight. You had a lot of variability in the cant, but even accounting for that, the 261 is faster in the cut. That's a reasonable conclusion. It is not, however, reasonable to say that it is X% faster/stronger/whatever. Does that make sense? Estimates are meaningless without quantification of the error of that estimate. Quantifying the error requires a larger sample size.

It's all about putting the findings in the right context. Even if you had a lot of replication and remarkably consistent wood, or even if you had used a dyno to show the difference, it still is one 346 vs 1 261. You put a lot of effort into getting a single data point, and now we have to wait and see what the trend will be as other data points come to light.

Thus far, of all the comparisons made, the 261 came out on top.



blsnelling said:


> You stated that my videos are unrepresentative of the actual results. The problem here is that I did not create the videos to be used as you did. Not only did I want to show the fastest cut times the saw was capable of, but I wanted to show how the saw ran under varying loads. Therefore you cannot use all cut times shown as the best cut times the saw is capable of. Again, they met my goals, but not yours as scientific test data.



Actually, you stated the videos were not representative, I just reiterated it. Just remember, comparisons should not be based on the fastest times, but on the average of all times that reflect a certain set of conditions.



blsnelling said:


> Yes, I have lost my sense of humor. I understand your view point, but you have come across as simply trying to discredit everything I've shown here. While not perfect testing, I put a LOT of effert into this, and accomplished what I set out to do.



It is quite possible that I came across this way, but I took pains to not come across this way. Might be a combination of my own social retardation, and your persecution complex. You get ragged on a lot, I understand that, but don't use it as an excuse to ignore criticisms that you could learn from.



blsnelling said:


> Thank you for your cordial reply. We're just on different pages here



There really is only one valid page, but no-one can force you to read it.


----------



## blsnelling

edisto said:


> I never said that your findings are dismissable...I'm just saying you cannot give them too much weight. You had a lot of variability in the cant, but even accounting for that, the 261 is faster in the cut. That's a reasonable conclusion. *It is not, however, reasonable to say that it is X% faster/stronger/whatever.* Does that make sense? Estimates are meaningless without quantification of the error of that estimate. Quantifying the error requires a larger sample size.



I believe right there sums what you have issue with. I understand that. However, putting a percentage on it was the only means I know to put in context at all. Are the numbers exact? No way. But they are representative or how the saws perform and give a visually tangible way to understand the difference for those that don't have the opportunity to run the saws.


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> I believe right there sums what you have issue with. I understand that. However, putting a percentage on it was the only means I know to put in context at all. Are the numbers exact? No way. But they are representative or how the saws perform and give a visually tangible way to understand the difference for those that don't have the opportunity to run the saws.



Percentages can be misleading even with the best of data sets. I think it would be much more informative to report the average times and, if possible, the standard deviation or standard error of those means. If the latter 2 are too much work, then just report the range.


----------



## Taxmantoo

blsnelling said:


> What?



Try timing a ported saw w/o the muffler mod. Is there enough power difference to make the noise worth it?


----------



## Officer's Match

blsnelling said:


> I don't mind answering specific questions, such as you posed, but I don't have the time or energy to go back through 75 pages of posts and re-state all my findings for convenience sake, as some have asked. I realize it's a lot to sort through, but it's all here, and I already posted it once. When you get into the middle of a big experiment like this, it starts to turn to work after a while. I'm out of energy on this one to go back and rewrite it all again. I'm not trying to be snippy, but saying it from my vantage point.



So, for a guy that wants to progressively mod/improve a 261 (which sounds as though it'd be wholly satisfying stock for most), what would be your recommended progression?


----------



## jeepyfz450

Edisto do you believe the 346 is a stronger saw than the 261? Would you be willing to buy a 261 and a 346 and do the proper tests for us? Its a lot of work that not many people on here are able or even willing to do......


----------



## blsnelling

taxmantoo said:


> Try timing a ported saw w/o the muffler mod. Is there enough power difference to make the noise worth it?



That would certainly be interesting. I have never port a saw without doing a muffler mod. To your point, my BIL is one guy that wants a stock muffler, but likes the power. So he'd rather keep his stock than ported. I should find out if the port work is worth the gains with using a stock muffler for him. Good idea. No doubt it will hurt performance, but the question is, how much.


----------



## blsnelling

jeepyfz450 said:


> Edisto do you believe the 346 is a stronger saw than the 261? Would you be willing to buy a 261 and a 346 and do the proper tests for us? Its a lot of work that not many people on here are able or even willing to do......



To that end, his end findings will be no different than mine. He'll simply have better data to support it. IMHO, it's simply not worth the effort for a chainsaw. That's all. There's a reason that there are only a very few others on AS is going to the trouble to make these kinds of tests. It take a lot of time and passion. There's a limit to that, even with me


----------



## jeepyfz450

blsnelling said:


> To that end, his end findings will be no different than mine. He'll simply have better data to support it. IMHO, it's simply not worth the effort for a chainsaw. That's all.



I agree..... i guess my point is that no matter how "flawed" some people think your testing methods or data is the 261 is still the better saw. I am going to call Myth busters and see if the can test the myth that the 346 was dethroned.......


----------



## blsnelling

jeepyfz450 said:


> I agree..... i guess my point is that no matter how "flawed" some people think your testing methods or data is the 261 is still the better saw. I am going to call Myth busters and see if the can test the myth that the 346 was dethroned.......



Now THAT would be cool


----------



## jeepyfz450

Lol yeah but they would need somebody that could safely run a saw so i would have to volunteer my time...... we could tackle a few more chainsaw myths aswell.


----------



## blsnelling

jeepyfz450 said:


> Lol yeah but they would need somebody that could safely run a saw so i would have to volunteer my time...... we could tackle a few more chainsaw myths aswell.



There ya go


----------



## gtsawyer

(not directed at a particular poster, btw)

I am fascinated about all the questions and finally pizzing and moaning about "he didn't do this" or "he didn't do that" or whatever minor criticisms and observations of non-perfection can be leveled at someone who has done an fantastic job of sharing very cool testing results on a new piece of equipment most of us haven't even seen in person. (my English teacher would be proud of this too-long sentence)

If, for example, I don't like the testing that's been done so far, then maybe I should get my own set of stock and modded saws and test them myself.

If, for example, I don't like the testing methodology and results, then maybe I should get my own dyno too.

Asking someone else to live out your testing fantasies seems to be symptomatic of some unhealthy mental process.

just sayin'


.
.
.

And yes (for the observant), I am now whining about the whiners.


----------



## CentaurG2

edisto said:


> Percentages can be misleading even with the best of data sets. I think it would be much more informative to report the average times and, if possible, the standard deviation or standard error of those means. If the latter 2 are too much work, then just report the range.



Karma Police, arrest this man, he speaks in maths…..
What a fantastic thread!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZHoci2Wjs0


----------



## edisto

jeepyfz450 said:


> Edisto do you believe the 346 is a stronger saw than the 261? Would you be willing to buy a 261 and a 346 and do the proper tests for us? Its a lot of work that not many people on here are able or even willing to do......



You missed the point by a mile jeepy. Go back and read what I wrote.

Here...I'll save you the trip:



edisto said:


> Doesn't bother me, and I didn't say you screwed it up. Everyone operates under constraints, and those constraints do not necessarily mean that an experiment cannot be done. It just means the results have to be interpreted with care, and that one should be extremely cautious about throwing numbers around.



All I'm talking about what can be said from what was done, and how to best report the results from what was done. I also suggested an improvement to the testing procedure that requires no additional work and can be used for future efforts.

It's all about putting things in perspective.


----------



## blsnelling

It all boils down to the following, as stated earlier. 


The MS261 is the strongest stock 50cc saw I've ever ran. Great torque and speed right out of the box.
A MM made significant gains. WOT RPM was no higher, but added to the already impressive torque of the saw, allowing it to hold more RPMs in the wood.
Advancing the ignition timing is an important piece of the puzzle to getting the most out of the saw.
The final porting made a big difference. The saw does not become peaky in the least. It's still super torquey, all across the powerband.
Without a stopwatch, the big carb can not really be notice. However, it does make a significant difference in timed cuts. It's just not really felt when simply working the saw.
De-stratofying the saw was a must to get the power in the saw. I wouldn't waste my time porting one without this.
How does it compare to the 346? Chain speed is obviously very similiar, since cuts times are so close. But the 261 feels stronger. It's less peaky with more bottom end grunt. I have not had a 20" B&C on the 346 yet, but believe the 261 will start to walk away from it.
The 261 has much higher compression potential than the 346. This is likely what gives it that extra "grunt", and allows it to pull a longer than normal bar for a 50cc saw.
Althought throttle response is excellent on the 261, the 346 still seems better. It's just unreal on a 346.
I'm sure there's more to add here. This is just what comes to mind.


----------



## 8433jeff

End this thread now. That sums it up. Delete my post and lock it. Long live the new king, the 261.


----------



## CentaurG2

I am sure it is just an anomaly.


----------



## AUSSIE1

One advantage of the strato is decreased fuel consumption with some willing to loose this for increased performance.

A reasonable level of porting with no muffler mod will increase the heat potential.

Brad is entitled to thread his findings regardless of what some of us may make of it just as Edisto is entitled to his input.

Lock it? why?  Last thing we need is overmoderating!


----------



## JJuday

8433jeff said:


> End this thread now. That sums it up. Delete my post and lock it. Long live the new king, the 261.



The "King" is what ever saw fits your budget and fulfills it's role to YOUR greatest potential because as limbing goes the user is the bottleneck, not the saw. I can only cut so much before I have to set it down and move brush and small rounds. 

The most important thing here is that the 261 is NOT a re-hashed version of the 260, but a real attempt of Stihl's to bring their 50cc pro saw into the 21st century. 

Thank you Brad for taking the time, spending the money and more than likely pissing off the neighbors at all hours of the night just to bring us the latest and greatest. No matter what anyone's conclusions of Brad's testing/results may be HE is the only one who has taken the time and spent the money to do it. If you have not ordered your own 261 and do not have any intentions of doing so to do your own evaluations and tests then kindly S.T.F.U.

I personally can wait for Husqvarna's response to this saw and I hope it's soon as it keeps things interesting around here. JJuday


----------



## edisto

AUSSIE1 said:


> Lock it? why?  Last thing we need is overmoderating!



Everything in moderation. Including moderating.








And moderation.


----------



## RTK

AUSSIE1 said:


> One advantage of the strato is decreased fuel consumption with some willing to loose this for increased performance.
> 
> !



Agreed,
Even though strato saws are the wave of the future it doesn't necessarily mean they are better, just that they satisfy EPA pollution requirements. Otherwise I see no advantage to them.


----------



## Trigger-Time

I havn't follwed this thread for couple of days........WOW!



Bad MS261 news on my end, Dealer talked to Stihl Rep.
Rep said it may be Feb 2011 before he gets any in.
Dealer tried to get just one released for me, he even
told Rep the guy that wants one (me). Has bought
17 new units from him and that I would get someone
in another state to get one and he would loose a sale.
The Stihl distributor for our area doesn't even have any yet!

Anyone from Missouri know of any 261's in the state?


TT


----------



## Slamm

Western Kentucky can't get them yet either. I want one.

Sam


----------



## atvguns

Anyone from Missouri know of any 261's in the state?


TT[/QUOTE]

I havent found any yet:bang::bang: . I guess we can send a truck out to get some Kinda a black market thing:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Trigger-Time

atvguns said:


> Anyone from Missouri know of any 261's in the state?
> 
> 
> TT



I havent found any yet:bang::bang: . I guess we can send a truck out to get some Kinda a black market thing:hmm3grin2orange:[/QUOTE]

Well maybe a road trip is in order!

Some good soul did make a offer a week or so back.
I cleaned up my pm's yesterday and I have CRS!


TT


----------



## wigglesworth

Slamm said:


> Western Kentucky can't get them yet either. I want one.
> 
> Sam



Hutson's dont have any?


----------



## Slamm

wigglesworth said:


> Hutson's dont have any?



No, and I told him that the Ohio guys were getting them and he can't understand, because that is where his "supplier" is located. He can't even get a price yet, so as to get me a price, cause I want one for a skidder saw. Bert takes the modded 260 on the ATV for a backup saw, and I have to use the 361, which is fine, but I liked that little saw, LOL.

Sam


----------



## blsnelling

I'm not doing anything special to get them from my dealer. Our distributor is Ryan equipment. I've bought 5 of them now. They show up the day after I order them, since we're super close to the distributor.


----------



## Slamm

blsnelling said:


> I'm not doing anything special to get them from my dealer. Our distributor is Ryan equipment. I've bought 5 of them now. They show up the day after I order them, since we're super close to the distributor.



I'm telling my guy this and going to see whats up, its also is going to take until early December to get me 2 441 fuel tanks.

Later,

Sam


----------



## Trigger-Time

It all depends on your area distributor.



TT


----------



## Slamm

Trigger-Time said:


> It all depends on your area distributor.
> 
> 
> 
> TT



The area distributor is in Ohio, but maybe it's not the same one as Brad's?!?!

Dunno,

Sam


----------



## indiansprings

Brad, thank you for spending the time, energy, effort and money on the MS261 saw review. I haven't bothered reviewing your times and data, mainly because imho a guy with as much trigger time as you have, that one can inherently tell which saw is stronger in the cut and usually unless really close faster in the cut. It's kind of like hooking up two different tractors to the same plow on the same piece of ground, you almost immediately know which one is the strongest of the two.

Overall, a great thread showing how one of the most anticipated saws to come out in a while is constructed and performs. It's refreshing to see Stihl address a model that was good but was long in the tooth. To me it doesn't make a hoot in hell if it was a review about a Stihl or a Husky. The info is good enough to make me want to go try one myself. I didn't see anywhere in the thread where you state throw the 346 away and run down and buy one, that's for each individual to decide after demoing one themselves.

I'll keep using my mm 346 until they get them here in Missouri and then make my mind up after actually using one. 

One can only be expected to go so far when doing such a test for "sharing the knowledge". All saw testing is somewhat subjective as no two cuts are the same, wood density and grain vary in the same piece of wood, unless they come up with some type of synthetic medium that is exactly the same to do comparative testing it'll never be the same. Then you'll have to devise some type of device that holds the saw and puts the exact same pressure in the cut. Bottom line is that you did the best any normal guy could expect.

Once again, thanks for sharing the information. I have a feeling we'll see alot more threads about the 261.


----------



## blsnelling

indiansprings said:


> I didn't see anywhere in the thread where you state throw the 346 away and run down and buy one, that's for each individual to decide after demoing one themselves.



No way man. I love my 346! It's a great saw, always has been, always will be.


----------



## wigglesworth

Slamm said:


> I'm telling my guy this and going to see whats up, its also is going to take until early December to get me 2 441 fuel tanks.
> 
> Later,
> 
> Sam



I ordered a MS460 tank from them just last week. Got it in two days. Hutsons right?


----------



## Andyshine77

Ed there is no way to gain repeatable results, and it's obvious you've never done any testing like this whatsoever. They're simply too many variables, even if you use an autonomous robot making the test cuts. The wood, engine temp, fuel, tuning, barometric pressure, chain and so on and so on, all come into play. 

What you want is a 100% scientific test, sorry that's never going to happen, even with a lot of money and a bunch smart guys like yourself. So what you're saying is for the most part pointless, and It amounts to nothing more than pouting about the 346 getting it's butt kicked. My arguing with Brad earlier was in this thread was in jest, as I knew the out come first hand, I even made some of the timed cuts.

I'm all for better testing! however it's simply not feasible, and all saw porters preform their testing in the same manner as Brad. 

Ed I think you're a great guy and very smart as well, but I was good friends with a guy like you, and I can tell from many of your posts your wheels spin too fast sometime. You seem to loose track of what's obvious, and does not need to be over complicated. Sometimes you just need to jump in an go.

Have a good one Andre.


----------



## Slamm

wigglesworth said:


> I ordered a MS460 tank from them just last week. Got it in two days. Hutsons right?



Yeah, Hutsons, I have got a lot of stuff from them in the last month. The head parts guy is good. I'm back to having a dealer and parts man that I like, and I will only buy from them regardless of where (what state) we are working.

Just wish I could get my 441 tank quicker, LOL. They have a 260 non-PRO for $379 there. I'll wait and get the 261, I like strato's and any other Stihl "new ideas".

Sam


----------



## Anthony_Va.

Andyshine77 said:


> Ed there is no way to gain repeatable results, and it's obvious you've never done any testing like this whatsoever. They're simply too many variables, even if you use an autonomous robot making the test cuts. The wood, engine temp, fuel, tuning, barometric pressure, chain and so on and so on, all come into play.
> 
> What you want is a 100% scientific test, sorry that's never going to happen, even with a lot of money and a bunch smart guys like yourself. So what you're saying is for the most part pointless, and It amounts to nothing more than pouting about the 346 getting it's butt kicked. My arguing with Brad earlier was in this thread was in jest, as I knew the out come first hand, I even made some of the timed cuts.
> 
> I'm all for better testing! however it's simply not feasible, and all saw porters preform their testing in the same manner as Brad.
> 
> Ed I think you're a great guy and very smart as well, but I was good friends with a guy like you, and I can tell from many of your posts your wheels spin too fast sometime. You seem to loose track of what's obvious, and does not need to be over complicated. Sometimes you just need to jump in an go.
> 
> Have a good one Andre.



Thats a good one buddy.  I'm with ya on that.


----------



## Motorsen

*We need dyno pulls!*

Following this thread has been very interesting. Especially Brads porting job. Saving the thing almost over the edge. It´s quite obvious that there is some fumbling in the dark with this new engine layout. No doubt that strato is here to stay. And from what I have heard from other users and this thread there is no downside. More power! Better on fuel! Less pollution!
Now that this testing thing on which is better than the other and how I think that there maybe is a demand for more accurate testing. In other word cool facts. Not that wood timing is bad because that is how we are going to use the thing. In real life. But if one could get access to a small engine dyno now that would cast another light. The gocart guys have them. Post graphs on torque and hp! MuffModded, MM and ported etc etc. Not that the work and testing of it isn't`t appreciated because it´s actually been huge and entusiastic. Brad fabricating a sawmill testlog just to test a saw. Testing with a flashlight in the darkness of night! Thumbs up!!!Brad
Someone know an engine tuner with a small dyno. Hooked up on a pc with the software? 
Just a humble thought I wanted to share. Maybe an idea?

Cheers


Motorsen:chainsawguy:


----------



## Officer's Match

Motorsen said:


> Following this thread has been very interesting. Especially Brads porting job. Saving the thing almost over the edge. It´s quite obvious that there is some fumbling in the dark with this new engine layout. No doubt that strato is here to stay. And from what I have heard from other users and this thread there is no downside. More power! Better on fuel! Less pollution!
> Now that this testing thing on which is better than the other and how I think that there maybe is a demand for more accurate testing. In other word cool facts. Not that wood timing is bad because that is how we are going to use the thing. In real life. But if one could get access to a small engine dyno now that would cast another light. The gocart guys have them. Post graphs on torque and hp! MuffModded, MM and ported etc etc. Not that the work and testing of it isn't`t appreciated because it´s actually been huge and entusiastic. Brad fabricating a sawmill testlog just to test a saw. Testing with a flashlight in the darkness of night! Thumbs up!!!Brad
> Someone know an engine tuner with a small dyno. Hooked up on a pc with the software?
> Just a humble thought I wanted to share. Maybe an idea?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> Motorsen:chainsawguy:



I agree. Rep coming.


----------



## edisto

Andyshine77 said:


> Ed there is no way to gain repeatable results, and it's obvious you've never done any testing like this whatsoever. They're simply too many variables, even if you use an autonomous robot making the test cuts. The wood, engine temp, fuel, tuning, barometric pressure, chain and so on and so on, all come into play.
> 
> What you want is a 100% scientific test, sorry that's never going to happen, even with a lot of money and a bunch smart guys like yourself. So what you're saying is for the most part pointless, and It amounts to nothing more than pouting about the 346 getting it's butt kicked. My arguing with Brad earlier was in this thread was in jest, as I knew the out come first hand, I even made some of the timed cuts.
> 
> I'm all for better testing! however it's simply not feasible, and all saw porters preform their testing in the same manner as Brad.
> Have a good one Andre.



OK...is it my writing or your reading comprehension? What the hell are you talking about? Am I using words that are too big?

Oh wait...it's because Brad is involved. The only pouting going on is by those with Brad blinders on.

I'm going to say this one last time. Don't think it will help.

Try to keep up this time.

What I did? I timed the cuts Brad showed. The results AGREED WITH HIS CONCLUSIONS with 2 exceptions.

The exceptions were:

1. His special 346 was SIGNIFICANTLY faster than the ported 261. He thought it was a push. No-one complained about that result.

2. The cuts shown for both muffler modded saws were, on average, slower than the stock saws. I assumed the cuts shown were not representative of the cuts used to calculate the difference. Took a lot of pouty posts to confirm that.

Now. Here are my "overly scientific", unrealistic, impossible to do suggestions.

1. When comparing 2 saws, make 1 cut with saw A then another cut with saw B, then repeat instead of doing a series with each. Then compare the averages.

2. When comparing mods to the same saw, use the average of 5-10 cuts from each saw to get the averages to make the comparison. I'd suggest more, but the farther you move into a cant the more likely you are to get into different wood.

Why do this? Because there is variation in "wood, engine temp, fuel, tuning, barometric pressure, chain and so on and so on". You can't get rid of that variation, so you have to make sure it gets incorporated into the 2 sets of data you are comparing. You do what you can to cut down on variation (like not having 2 people do the timed cuts), but it's going to be there, so you have to account for it.

Now...tell me what is so impossible about that? What is pointless about it?

Your response amounts to nothing more than pouting because I made a suggestion to Brad. 

Don't tell you want to improve testing when you completely ignore suggestions that would improve it.

Next time READ what I wrote. Your objection ain't about Stihl or Husky, it is about Brad.

Now go back and READ IT AGAIN!

I don't mind repeating myself when people want to learn something, but I hate doing it just because some damned fanboy refuses to read it in the first place.

:bang:


----------



## blsnelling

edisto said:


> The only pouting going on is by those with Brad blinders on.


It's comments like this why I have issues with some your posts. You're not 100% amiable here, as you're trying to make out to be.



> 1. His special 346 was SIGNIFICANTLY faster than the ported 261. He thought it was a push. No-one complained about that result.


Simply not true. You have misinterpretted or twisted the data in a way it was not meant to be used.



> 2. The cuts shown for both muffler modded saws were, on average, slower than the stock saws. I assumed the cuts shown were not representative of the cuts used to calculate the difference. Took a lot of pouty posts to confirm that.


Again, not even remotely close to true. The 261 made huge gains with the muffler mod. You need to let this one go because your spreading misconceptions about the saw that is simply not true.


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> It's comments like this why I have issues with some your posts. You're not 100% amiable here, as you're trying to make out to be.



I didn't make the comment until I posted the same information for the 3rd time, and still continue to have people take issue with things *I didn't say*.




blsnelling said:


> Simply not true. You have misinterpretted or twisted the data in a way it was not meant to be used.



You can do exactly what I did and get the same result...anyone on the forum can. The cut times shown in the video are significantly faster for your 346 when an appropriate analysis is used. No misinterpretation or twisting, just an incomplete data set. 

I outlined my methodology so that others could check my results, and you accuse me of lying. What you could do is post the numbers you used for your comparisons. You tell me the videos you posted do not provide accurate data, that pretty much has to be true. You could respond to that by providing the right numbers, but instead you accuse me of lying. 

You have not outlined what numbers you used and why, but I haven't accused you of manipulating the numbers. Not too many people have experience with data analysis, so I figured I'd relate how to do it appropriately to get the most objective answer from the data you generated.

There is no way a reasonable person could consider reporting the average of all available data as twisting or manipulating. Selecting a subset of numbers from those available *is* considered twisting or manipulating the data. 

Get stopwatch and watch the videos that were posted. Then call me a liar.



blsnelling said:


> Again, not even remotely close to true. The 261 made huge gains with the muffler mod. You need to let this one go because your spreading misconceptions about the saw that is simply not true.



Once again, anyone that is paying attention would know that all I am talking about is the cut times shown in the video. You said they aren't representative, and I believe you.

It hasn't occurred to you to provide the actual numbers, because you think I have ulterior motives, and would misrepresent the data. You are entitled to your suspicions, but that is not my intent. I just want an objective look.

What could I possibly have to gain by lying about the numbers? I'm not selling anything.


----------



## Officer's Match

A lotta' flap about a relevant question - what effect from a muffler mod on an otherwise stock saw. Perhaps if someone would allow a modded muffler to be installed on a otherwise stock saw (not mod _their_ muffler). Then a set of cuts made both ways, same wood/day/temp/etc. Would seem to be easier than rehashing what old tries. Run stock, swap muffler and retune, run MM. I just wish I had a 261 myself to volunteer.


----------



## edisto

Officer's Match said:


> A lotta' flap about a relevant question - what effect from a muffler mod on an otherwise stock saw. Perhaps if someone would allow a modded muffler to be installed on a otherwise stock saw (not mod _their_ muffler). Then a set of cuts made both ways, same wood/day/temp/etc. Would seem to be easier than rehashing what old tries. Run stock, swap muffler and retune, run MM. I just wish I had a 261 myself to volunteer.



Using the existing numbers should work too...it just depends on whether the number of cuts is enough to account for the variation in the data set.

Brad has the numbers...if he used averages to determine the difference, then we already have the answer.


----------



## blsnelling

Officer's Match said:


> A lotta' flap about a relevant question - what effect from a muffler mod on an otherwise stock saw. Perhaps if someone would allow a modded muffler to be installed on a otherwise stock saw (not mod _their_ muffler). Then a set of cuts made both ways, same wood/day/temp/etc. Would seem to be easier than rehashing what old tries. Run stock, swap muffler and retune, run MM. I just wish I had a 261 myself to volunteer.



I already did exactly that and posted the results. What Edisto can't seem to grasp is that *not all cuts that were shown were made for the fastest cut times*. Some are to simply show the torque of the saw. To do that I lug the saw, and cut times suffer. *Edisto, your graphs are simply wrong and misleading!*

You say I'm calling you a liar? Then let me remind you one more time. *The 261 is considerably faster with a muffler mod. My 261 and my 346 are virtually identical in cut times.*


----------



## blsnelling

You know Edisto, if this troubles you so much and you're so interested, why don't you go buy your own saw and do your own testing?


----------



## Officer's Match

Just tryin' to help get past this impasse, you guys both seem like good fella's.


----------



## rms61moparman

You guys are killing me!!!
I've never seen so much useless jaw jacking over NOTHING in my life!
The facts were reported as they were.

1) The 261 is an awesome saw.
2) It responded and improved with a muffler mod.
3) It was then ported and responded well to that too!
4) It was then taken WAY over the top and responded in an UNBELIVEABLE manner, but only the shell of the saw is still a 261.
5) If you are so ANAL that you require more "scientific" data than what was given (and verified by at least 4 other members) DO IT YOURSELF!!!
That way the data can be presented EXACTLY like you wish!


You don't seem to realize how many minutes of video footage Brad has to sort through to provide us with a 2 minute video, or how many test cuts go into comparing 2 or more saws.

Don't try to tell Brad how to do what he does, if you don't like the way he does it......DO IT YOURSELF!

Most of us take Brads videos for what they are and don't require (or even want) a lot of egghead charts and graphs to tell us the simple answer to a simple question;

Us: Is the 261 faster?
Brad: Yep!
Us: O.K. cool!


Mike


----------



## CHEVYTOWN13

*Over and Out on this subject.*



edisto said:


> Get stopwatch and watch the videos that were posted. Then call me a liar.



I did just that, and the hometown is telling the truth. I think the op's Telling Stories™.

Maybe it's the op's gangster rap that's blinding him...


----------



## Andyshine77

edisto said:


> OK...is it my writing or your reading comprehension? What the hell are you talking about? Am I using words that are too big?
> 
> Oh wait...it's because Brad is involved. The only pouting going on is by those with Brad blinders on.
> 
> I'm going to say this one last time. Don't think it will help.
> 
> Try to keep up this time.
> 
> What I did? I timed the cuts Brad showed. The results AGREED WITH HIS CONCLUSIONS with 2 exceptions.
> 
> The exceptions were:
> 
> 1. His special 346 was SIGNIFICANTLY faster than the ported 261. He thought it was a push. No-one complained about that result.
> 
> 2. The cuts shown for both muffler modded saws were, on average, slower than the stock saws. I assumed the cuts shown were not representative of the cuts used to calculate the difference. Took a lot of pouty posts to confirm that.
> 
> Now. Here are my "overly scientific", unrealistic, impossible to do suggestions.
> 
> 1. When comparing 2 saws, make 1 cut with saw A then another cut with saw B, then repeat instead of doing a series with each. Then compare the averages.
> 
> 2. When comparing mods to the same saw, use the average of 5-10 cuts from each saw to get the averages to make the comparison. I'd suggest more, but the farther you move into a cant the more likely you are to get into different wood.
> 
> Why do this? Because there is variation in "wood, engine temp, fuel, tuning, barometric pressure, chain and so on and so on". You can't get rid of that variation, so you have to make sure it gets incorporated into the 2 sets of data you are comparing. You do what you can to cut down on variation (like not having 2 people do the timed cuts), but it's going to be there, so you have to account for it.
> 
> Now...tell me what is so impossible about that? What is pointless about it?
> 
> Your response amounts to nothing more than pouting because I made a suggestion to Brad.
> 
> Don't tell you want to improve testing when you completely ignore suggestions that would improve it.
> 
> Next time READ what I wrote. Your objection ain't about Stihl or Husky, it is about Brad.
> 
> Now go back and READ IT AGAIN!
> 
> I don't mind repeating myself when people want to learn something, but I hate doing it just because some damned fanboy refuses to read it in the first place.
> 
> :bang:



My reading comprehension is just fine. I find it comical that just because I disagree with you I must be stupid, as that's essentially what you said. I think you're mad because I hit a nerve, and your response was immature at best. 

The problem here is the fact you're making numinous assumptions, as we made many many cuts, not just what you see in the video. Were you there? I know I was. 

Apparently your intellect so great it's given you the right to question others cognitive ability, that means one thing. You're arrogant! You think your way is the best way and the only way. Like I said I know your kind, and it's pointless to debate with you, you're right and that's all there is two it.

Ed if you can do the test so much better, why don't you put up or shut up, like Brad did. Buy two $500.00 saws, make a mill, mill a cant, and compared the saws stock, mm, than ported. When was the last time you did this? I'm thinking never.


----------



## Freehand

Boy,this turned into a WORLD CLASS pissing match.I just want to thank Brad for taking the time to do this comparison,man's got a thicker flame suit than mine


----------



## Andyshine77

freehandslabber said:


> Boy,this turned into a WORLD CLASS pissing match.I just want to thank Brad for taking the time to do this comparison,man's got a thicker flame suit than mine



It did and for no reason I can see.


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> I already did exactly that and posted the results. What Edisto can't seem to grasp is that *not all cuts that were shown were made for the fastest cut times*. Some are to simply show the torque of the saw. To do that I lug the saw, and cut times suffer. *Edisto, your graphs are simply wrong and misleading!*
> 
> You say I'm calling you a liar? Then let me remind you one more time. *The 261 is considerably faster with a muffler mod. My 261 and my 346 are virtually identical in cut times.*





Andyshine77 said:


> My reading comprehension is just fine. I find it comical that just because I disagree with you I must be stupid, as that's essentially what you said. I think you're mad because I hit a nerve, and your response was immature at best.
> 
> The problem here is the fact you're making numinous assumptions, as we made many many cuts, not just what you see in the video. Were you there? I know I was.



Your reading comprehension clearly isn't fine.

I keep saying the graphs aren't representative because it is an incomplete data set. I was just explaining how I got the graphs. 

I'm not saying the stock saw was faster...just that it was faster on the videos.

I'm not saying that the data collected were invalid. I did point out an improved methodology for future comparisons, i.e., alternating cuts, but the data that were collected will provide a valid comparison.

Arrogant? No. Frustrated? Yes. Not sure how many times I have to say the same thing before you guys catch on.

The experiment was fine for what it was. The results are valid as long as a valid comparison is done. So...how were the data compared? I assume you compared averages, but you have been so busy reacting to things that I didn't say that you haven't addressed the question.

It really is all semantics, but I love semantics.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

This thread is still here??

I kinda forgot about it I haven't seen it for quite a while since no has been posting in it for a long time now.....


----------



## Andyshine77

edisto said:


> Your reading comprehension clearly isn't fine.
> 
> Arrogant? No. Frustrated? Yes. Not sure how many times I have to say the same thing before you guys catch on.
> .



Both of these statements are as arrogant as they come.


----------



## D&B Mack

2...6...11...13...21...25...32...49...73...99...121...

What's this?

The number of trees being saved by this thread. Now damn it, put down those keyboards and kill a tree!:chainsawguy:


----------



## Andyshine77

Wish I felt well enough to do some cutting, sinuous infections suck.


----------



## jeepyfz450

Tell me about it andy its the first day of deer season here and i am sick as hell. Damn this sucks


----------



## Banacanin

My wife is in bed, sick as a puppy, drinking powerade and eating half a handful of gold fish crackers


----------



## Andyshine77

Marko! Hello my friend. Man I wish I had some gold fish crackers.


----------



## Banacanin

Andyshine77 said:


> Marko! Hello my friend. Man I wish I had some gold fish crackers.



I just got off the phone with Nik, had I known I would have sent him over there with some.


----------



## Andyshine77

Hahaha that's OK I'll live lol.


----------



## rms61moparman

Andyshine77 said:


> Marko! Hello my friend. Man I wish I had some gold fish crackers.






I'd bring you some but I'm up to my elbows in deer blood! 


Mike


----------



## Banacanin

rms61moparman said:


> I'd bring you some but I'm up to my elbows in deer blood!
> 
> 
> Mike



I might drive down there tonight if you can promise me a steak with some eggs when I get there tomorrow morning!


----------



## rms61moparman

Banacanin said:


> I might drive down there tonight if you can promise me a steak with some eggs when I get there tomorrow morning!






Haven't you left yet???
How handy are you with a boning knife?


Mike


----------



## blsnelling

rms61moparman said:


> ...but only the shell of the saw is still a 261.



Mike you only got one thing wrong there. This saw is still very much a 261. Every part on it is factory original, with the exception of the carb. And I've shown that replacing the carb is not required. This is really no different than porting any saw. Your 9010 is no different, nor your little 401.


----------



## blsnelling

freehandslabber said:


> Boy,this turned into a WORLD CLASS pissing match.I just want to thank Brad for taking the time to do this comparison,man's got a thicker flame suit than mine



Hey, you're very welcome. I did this for my own understanding first and foremost. I knew most of you would enjoy and appreciate it, and you have said as much. Thank you. I've learned to expect criticism. It's just par for the course. Some of it makes you better, some of goes in one ear and out the other, and some of it does get under my skin. My skin has gotten a little thicker from hanging around here. It has had to. Bottom line, you can't please everyone. And on top of that, it doesn't matter what or how you do it, someone will always be there to complain. I was also very aware that I had made myself very vulnerable at the outstart of this experiment. I had no way of knowing if I would succeed or not. At first, I did not. You guys pushed me, and we conquered this bad boy. Had I not, I wouldn't be selling ported 261s. I have to prove it on mine before I can sell it. So all is not lost, this thread has been mostly fun, and I accomplished more than I hoped to through the course of this thread.


----------



## rms61moparman

blsnelling said:


> Mike you only got one thing wrong there. This saw is still very much a 261. Every part on it is factory original, with the exception of the carb. And I've shown that replacing the carb is not required. This is really no different than porting any saw. Your 9010 is no different, nor your little 401.






A non-strato 261 isn't a 261 anymore!
What you have is a SCREAMING non strato 50cc saw that Stihl designed and built the parts for.
It's kinda like the model cars and airplanes we used to get as a kid.
You could use and number of combinations of body, engine, etc that were available, or you could go strictly by the "kit".
When you go the extent you did with this great little saw that isn't a "woods port" anymore it is a TOTALLY re-designed saw now.
Kudos to you for doing it!
It gives us "strato haters" a light at the end of the tunnel!


Mike


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> However, I don't have the time, wood, or ambition to do testing to the level you're talking about. I only set out to get a good idea how the saw would perform at different levels of modification and compare that to a 346. In my own mind, I satisfied that. From your vantage point, my finding are completely dismisable, because they don't stand up to the rigor of a well designed scientific and repeatable test. But they told me what I wanted to know.





edisto said:


> I think you misunderstood my recommendations. You do have the resources. One simple change will add a lot to the comparability of future results. Instead of making X number of cuts with saw 1 followed by X number of cuts with saw 2, make the same number of cuts, but alternate the saws. That should reduce the variation due to inconsistency of the cant.
> 
> Then, to make the comparison, you can compare the averages.
> 
> To compare pre- and post mod, where you cannot alternate the cuts, you would need more cuts because you cannot alternate. In this case, you might not have enough wood to do enough cuts, especially if the wood is inconsistent. The more inconsistent the wood is, the larger the number of cuts you would have to make with each saw.





Andyshine77 said:


> Ed there is no way to gain repeatable results, and it's obvious you've never done any testing like this whatsoever. They're simply too many variables, even if you use an autonomous robot making the test cuts. The wood, engine temp, fuel, tuning, barometric pressure, chain and so on and so on, all come into play.
> 
> What you want is a 100% scientific test, sorry that's never going to happen, even with a lot of money and a bunch smart guys like yourself. So what you're saying is for the most part pointless, and It amounts to nothing more than pouting about the 346 getting it's butt kicked.





Andyshine77 said:


> Both of these statements are as arrogant as they come.



You think my pointing out your unwillingness to read posts before responding is arrogant. I think responding to posts without reading them is arrogant. Guess we can agree to disagree.

Here's the hangup. I think the data should be looked at properly because I think all data should be looked at properly. I don't think it will change the conclusions, it will just make the conclusions sound. Does it make a difference? A JB Weld fix might hold forever, but a proper weld is the way to go because not all JB Weld fixes will hold forever. You can reach the right conclusion with sloppy analyses, but that doesn't mean sloppy analyses are the way to go.

The constraints of such testing are clear, and the suggestion I made was a minor one. I'm not discounting the conclusions because I think the data that were generated are not usable. I think they are usable.

Numbers such as these are meaningless if there is no measure of the error of the estimate. Some people are OK with meaningless numbers, but I like to see the error. Just a matter of curiosity actually.

So...if you want me to run some cursory analyses, just send the data or post them. From the sounds of it, I'm guessing you suspect I'll try to do something evil with them. Believe it or not, it is easier to mislead without an analysis. Even if you are not suspicious, I'd see nothing suspicious about you not providing the data. They are, after all, your data.

As I said before, I appreciate the effort that went into doing the comparison.


----------



## Andyshine77

edisto said:


> So...if you want me to run some cursory analysis, just send the data or post them. From the sounds of it, I'm guessing you suspect I'll try to do something evil with them. Believe it or not, it is easier to mislead without an analysis. Even if you are not suspicious, I'd see nothing suspicious about you not providing the data. They are, after all, your data.
> 
> As I said before, I appreciate the effort that went into doing the comparison.



Ed I don't think you're a liar, I would trust your findings. However I highly doubt you'll go out and buy two new saws, than port and test them. Can you port saws at all? If you can port saw and do buy a new 346/261 than test them, more power to you.

I've read every post in this thread BTW, and your arrogant thoughts and assumptions persists. Your error was not minor! it was quite large, and you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing. Anyone that's ever tested a saw know you have to put the saw under different loads, sometimes the saw will cut faster sometimes slower. 

Anyway I'm done, as it's pointless to debate with a brick wall.


----------



## banshee67

82 pages.. who would have guessed
hope the name calling and physical threats are kept to a minimum :chainsawguy:


----------



## edisto

Andyshine77 said:


> Ed I don't think you're a liar, I would trust your findings. However I highly doubt you'll go out and buy two new saws, than port and test them. Can you port saws at all? If you can port saw and do buy a new 346/261 than test them, more power to you.
> 
> I've read every post in this thread BTW, and your arrogant thoughts and assumptions persists. Your error was not minor! it was quite large, and you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing. Anyone that's ever tested a saw know you have to put the saw under different loads, sometimes the saw will cut faster sometimes slower.
> 
> Anyway I'm done, as it's pointless to debate with a brick wall.



What error? The first comparison was a cockup, but I caught that, and it had nothing to do with the muffler mods. It's the second set of graphs Brad was complaining about, not the first.

More importantly, I never claimed they were anything more than times from the videos. I didn't post the videos, I only timed what was offered. I received assurances that the mm saw shown was one of the slow runs. Fine.

Different loads are fine, varying conditions are fine. I know how much variation there is, which is why a number like "10%" doesn't mean squat without an error term.

Given all the confounding factors you described because you were certain I didn't understand them, do you really think a 2% difference like Brad reported after the first 261 mod is even measurable?

That's the point I'm trying to make. Saying "it's not scientific" and then tossing out percentages is having your cake and eating it too.

261 is stronger? I'm sure it is. If you want to toss out numbers though, there are steps you can take to make those numbers meaningful

Like I said, I'll be glad to run them.


----------



## blsnelling

edisto said:


> So...if you want me to run some cursory analyses, just send the data or post them. *From the sounds of it, I'm guessing you suspect I'll try to do something evil with them.* Believe it or not, it is easier to mislead without an analysis. Even if you are not suspicious, I'd see nothing suspicious about you not providing the data. They are, after all, your data.



Not at all, Ed. It's just that I simply don't care to take it to that level, just like most don't care enough about a 50cc saw to do what I have here. I don't think most of us saw nuts care about scientific data analysis in a saw comparison. You do, that's fine. All I cared about was finding out what was in the 261, what I could get out of it, and how it compares to a 346. I did exactly that. That's all I care about.

The problem with all of this, is that the assumptions were wrong that you made to prove how inaccurate the data is. You assumed that all cuts shown were to demonstrate the fastest cuts the saw is capable of. That simply wasn't the case. Therefore your proof that the testing is wrong, was built on a bad foundation.


----------



## blsnelling

edisto said:


> Given all the confounding factors you described because you were certain I didn't understand them, do you really think a 2% difference like Brad reported after the first 261 mod is even measurable?
> 
> That's the point I'm trying to make. Saying "it's not scientific" and then tossing out percentages is having your cake and eating it too.
> 
> 261 is stronger? I'm sure it is. If you want to toss out numbers though, there are steps you can take to make those numbers meaningful
> 
> Like I said, I'll be glad to run them.



Ed, what you don't know is how many cuts were made and how I came to my conclusions. You're making a lot of assumptions without knowing the facts. The bottom line is, I'm not interested in posting all my data and proving to you, or anyone, that my findings are scientifically accurate. You can either take my findings, or leave them. It's a TON of work to do what I did, and I'm simply not interested in proving my findings to anyone. It is what it is, plain and simple. Take it or leave it.


----------



## Banacanin

Would you please help me time this and come up with some meaningful numbers that will help me understand. 







watch him squeeze all the fun out of this


----------



## blsnelling

Banacanin said:


> Would you please help me time this and come up with some meaningful numbers that will help me understand.
> watch him squeeze all the fun out of this



46FFFFFFFFFFFF. How's that?


----------



## Banacanin

blsnelling said:


> 46FFFFFFFFFFFF. How's that?



No I need charts damn it, I am confused. I don't know what is happening.


----------



## Andyshine77

My word Marko I don't know DD x 20 and she's young to.:wave:


----------



## Andyshine77

Is this better Marko?


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> Is this better Marko?



NO! We demand numbers!


----------



## Banacanin

I have been watching for hours, and she just keeps doing it over and over again. She doesn't even get tired. My eyes hurt and I am so sore, I just don't understand.


----------



## Anthony_Va.

You can post all of the numbers, charts, etc. that you want, but there's mothing scientific about my conclusion. And that is, that thems some big ole boobies.


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> Not at all, Ed. It's just that I simply don't care to take it to that level, just like most don't care enough about a 50cc saw to do what I have here. I don't think most of us saw nuts care about scientific data analysis in a saw comparison. You do, that's fine. All I cared about was finding out what was in the 261, what I could get out of it, and how it compares to a 346. I did exactly that. That's all I care about.



All I was interested in was the comparison as well. I just hoped the numbers you worked so hard to collect could be used quantitatively instead of qualitatively.



blsnelling said:


> The problem with all of this, is that the assumptions were wrong that you made to prove how inaccurate the data is. You assumed that all cuts shown were to demonstrate the fastest cuts the saw is capable of. That simply wasn't the case. Therefore your proof that the testing is wrong, was built on a bad foundation.



Lost me here. I wasn't trying to show how inaccurate the data were. Can't do that without accurate numbers. What I showed was not proof of anything, but certainly in no way addressed the testing. It was a comparison of average cut times. The only assumption I made was that you were showing representative cuts. In other words, if you were showing "under heavy load" and "under light load" as demonstrations for one saw, you'd show the same comparisons for both saws. If that were the case, the comparisons would have been valid.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE TESTING. It is about the comparison. The error I'm interested in testing isn't experimental error, it's just math speak for variation from cut to cut due to uncontrollable factors.




blsnelling said:


> Ed, what you don't know is how many cuts were made and how I came to my conclusions. You're making a lot of assumptions without knowing the facts.



I've asked repeatedly how many cuts were made. My not knowing the answe isn't due to a lack of effort on my part. The only assumption I made was that the videos you posted were representative of the saws being shown.



blsnelling said:


> The bottom line is, I'm not interested in posting all my data and proving to you, or anyone, that my findings are scientifically accurate. You can either take my findings, or leave them. It's a TON of work to do what I did, and I'm simply not interested in proving my findings to anyone. It is what it is, plain and simple. Take it or leave it.



Fair enough. Like I said before, they are your data. But for the record, it has nothing to do with scientific accuracy. Just a proper comparison of the numbers you did a ton of work to generate.


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> NO! We demand numbers!



Is this better?:biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2:


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> Is this better?:biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2:



I'm not going to ask you for any more proof than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Andyshine77

Are you sure?


----------



## Banacanin

Andyshine77 said:


> Is this better?:biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2:





blsnelling said:


> I'm not going to ask you for any more proof than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!



totally, unlike the graph my independent tests have shown it drops off suddenly. Also this doesn't show who's is stronger.


----------



## blsnelling

Andyshine77 said:


> Are you sure?



I have nothing esle to say


----------



## Andyshine77

I guess I'll just have to repeat the test then.:crazy1:


----------



## Freehand




----------



## SawTroll

How coiuld a saw that may or may not cut slightly faster, but is much larger and has a bad weight distribution be better?

50cc saws shouldn't be made for bucking wood in the yard, if you buy a 50cc saw for that, you totally miss the point with a 50cc saw!


----------



## blsnelling

You'll get the point when my 261 out cuts your 372


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> You'll get the point when my 261 out cuts your 372



Well, start with my Euro MS361......


----------



## blsnelling

SawTroll said:


> Well, start with my Euro MS361......



Been there done that. Out cut a ported 361 in 16" wood


----------



## edisto

Banacanin said:


> Would you please help me time this and come up with some meaningful numbers that will help me understand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watch him squeeze all the fun out of this



Is this what you meant by 'being rational' in your whiny PMs about how I was being mean to Andre?

Way to take the high road...


----------



## Andyshine77

edisto said:


> Is this what you meant by 'being rational' in your whiny PMs about how I was being mean to Andre?
> 
> Way to take the high road...



OK guys we've had our fun, it's time to go home.


----------



## Tzed250

SawTroll said:


> Well, start with my Euro MS361......



I'm still waiting for an answer about how much you paid, in US dollars, for your Euro 361.......


.


----------



## SawTroll

blsnelling said:


> Been there done that. Out cut a ported 361 in 16" wood



That isn't quite the same, but I don't really care - I am not interested in modded saws anyway.


----------



## blsnelling

SawTroll said:


> That isn't quite the same, but I don't really care - I am not interested in modded saws anyway.



That's quite the statement for the man that is more interested in power vs weight than anyone else.


----------



## Andyshine77

blsnelling said:


> Been there done that. Out cut a ported 361 in 16" wood



And it came close to two great running ported 70cc saws, a 372 and a screaming 441.

I feel the 261 has a nearly perfect balance of power and weight, it's truly an amazing saw.


----------



## 04ultra

Andyshine77 said:


> I feel the 261 has a nearly perfect balance of power and weight, it's truly an amazing saw.



It will never handle as well as the 346.......I can tell by looking at the pictures......





.


----------



## blsnelling

04ultra said:


> It will never handle as well as the 346.......I can tell by looking at the pictures......



We do have documented proof of that too


----------



## Tzed250

04ultra said:


> It will never handle as well as the 346.......I can tell by looking at the pictures......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



LOL....Hi Steve!


.


----------



## 04ultra

blsnelling said:


> We do have documented proof of that too



So what are you saying ???






.


----------



## blsnelling

04ultra said:


> So what are you saying ???



<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## gemniii

Brad - Since you wrote before (post 920):


blsnelling said:


> Well, it's time to cap this thread off and sum things up.


Do you expect to publish any more tests or numbers in this thread? Such as oil consumption, ease of cleaning filter etc.?

Thanks, and again thanks for all the hard work and suffering fools like me.


----------



## 04ultra

blsnelling said:


> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xlp3iYeIl_k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



A 261 cant handle!!!...............




.


----------



## Tzed250

04ultra said:


> A 261 cant handle!!!...............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



It's that bogus clutch...


.


----------



## blsnelling

gemniii said:


> Brad - Since you wrote before (post 920):
> 
> Do you expect to publish any more tests or numbers in this thread? Such as oil consumption, ease of cleaning filter etc.?
> 
> Thanks, and again thanks for all the hard work and suffering fools like me.



I've got my technicians designing the tests now. We're trying to establish baselines. The data collection and analysis is really bogging us down. We'd love to get you the results, but we have to make sure it's properly documented and scientifically proveable


----------



## Banacanin

edisto said:


> Is this what you meant by 'being rational' in your whiny PMs about how I was being mean to Andre?
> 
> Way to take the high road...



I'm sorry we didn't have a professor to help us with all the big words. We can all benefit from your timely analysis and 40 or so re posts of "what you were trying to say" never seemed whiny.


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> I've got my technicians designing the tests now. We're trying to establish baselines. The data collection and analysis is really bogging us down. We'd love to get you the results, but we have to make sure it's properly documented and scientifically proveable



I wouldn't recommend it. You'll sell more saws if you just pick the numbers that you like.


----------



## edisto

Banacanin said:


> I'm sorry we didn't have a professor to help us with all the big words. We can all benefit from your timely analysis and 40 or so re posts of "what you were trying to say" never seemed whiny.



Not what I was trying to say...what I did say.

And you could always buy yourself a dictionary.


----------



## Banacanin

edisto said:


> Not what I was trying to say...what I did say.
> 
> And you could always buy yourself a dictionary.



Now how did that Pink Panther song go - oh yes

Pedant, Pedant, Pedant Pedant Pedant.

Thanks Derrick the dictionary done helped me done find the word I was looking for!


----------



## blsnelling

edisto said:


> I wouldn't recommend it. You'll sell more saws if you just pick the numbers that you like.



I take it this isn't one your posts that you tried so hard not to come across as demeaning?:notrolls2:


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> I take it this isn't one your posts that you tried so hard not to come across as demeaning?:notrolls2:



Just following your lead. 

You shouldn't open the door if you're going to worry about who comes in.


----------



## blsnelling

Whatever. I'm done with this. Go argue with yourself. Maybe he'll understand you.


----------



## Banacanin

Well this train certainly flew of the rails...


----------



## edisto

blsnelling said:


> What? You didn't like that I tore down the assumptions you wrongly made while hugely derailing this thread?



As I said before, the only assumption that I made was that you posted representative videos. 

You said you didn't, and I said fine.

How foolish of me to think you'd post a video of 2 saws that were run under comparable conditions, such as one cut with light pressure, and another bearing down. I assumed the videos were to be informational. You definitely tore down that assumption.

That was the end of those comparisons, so I asked if you'd share the data you did have. You said you wouldn't. Fine.

The only reason the thread got derailed is because you didn't (and apparently still don't) understand what I was/am trying to do, and filled in the blanks with the wrong information.

It's simple. A reasonable estimate of the difference between the 2 saws, and between the same saw with modding, can be made from your data by determining the amount of variation that existed for cuts from a single saw.

You don't want to do it. Fine.

Edit: You deleted your post. Fine.


----------



## Banacanin

edisto said:


> As I said before, the only assumption that I made was that you posted representative videos.
> 
> How foolish of me to think you'd post a video of 2 saws that were run under comparable conditions, such as one cut with light pressure, and another bearing down. I assumed the videos were to be informational. You definitely tore down that assumption.
> 
> You said you didn't, and I said fine.
> 
> That was the end of those comparisons, so I asked if you'd share the data you did have. You said you wouldn't. Fine.
> 
> The only reason the thread got derailed is because you didn't (and apparently still don't) understand what I was/am trying to do, and filled in the blanks with the wrong information.
> 
> It's simple. A reasonable estimate of the difference between the 2 saws, and between the same saw with modding, can be made from your data by determining the amount of variation that existed for cuts from a single saw.
> 
> You don't want to do it. Fine.
> 
> Edit: You deleted your post. Fine.


Thats telling; you derailed the thread because you could not make Brad understand. Brad Shame on you. Look what you made him do in order for you to understand.


----------



## blsnelling

Banacanin said:


> Thats telling; you derailed the thread because you could not make Brad understand. Brad Shame on you. Look what you made him do in order for you to understand.



Here's the thing. I do understand. *I simply don't care.* I've honestly have not even looked at the graphs. I started this thread knowing what I wanted to accomplish. I accomplished that. End of story.


----------



## edisto

Banacanin said:


> Thats telling; you derailed the thread because you could not make Brad understand. Brad Shame on you. Look what you made him do in order for you to understand.



Don't forget the peanut gallery jumping in with nothing to contribute about the saws or data analysis. That really kept things on track.


----------



## blsnelling

edisto said:


> Don't forget the peanut gallery jumping in with nothing to contribute about the saws or data analysis. That really kept things on track.



Talk about calling the kettle black!


----------



## Banacanin

edisto said:


> Don't forget the peanut gallery jumping in with nothing to contribute about the saws or data analysis. That really kept things on track.




"You shouldn't open the door if you're going to worry about who comes in."


----------



## edisto

Banacanin said:


> "You shouldn't open the door if you're going to worry about who comes in."



I'm not the one complaining about derailing.

All things considered though, I didn't expect to spiral the way it did.

I know Brad feels like I'm crapping on what he did, and so he got defensive. But, it has nothing to do with what he did, just a suggestion about what could be done with the data he has.

He's not interested, and that is that.


----------



## rms61moparman

edisto said:


> I'm not the one complaining about derailing.







Seems to be the ONLY thing you aren't complaining about!


Mike


----------



## dieselram

Banacanin said:


> Would you please help me time this and come up with some meaningful numbers that will help me understand.
> 
> 
> watch him squeeze all the fun out of this



What were you guys talking about?????????????????????? hone: BIG what???


----------



## dieselram

edisto said:


> I'm not the one complaining about derailing.
> 
> All things considered though, I didn't expect to spiral the way it did.
> 
> I know Brad feels like I'm crapping on what he did, and so he got defensive. But, it has nothing to do with what he did, just a suggestion about what could be done with the data he has.
> 
> He's not interested, and that is that.



You are getting out of hand here... We aren't keeping you here you don't have to look in this thread anymore if you don't like it... As I said in another thread. Don't go away mad, just go away... :sword: oke:


----------



## MCW

Well I still think I want one of these saws. I'll get my grubby mitts on one and get some comparos up against my stock 5100-S.
If there is nothing in it and the Stihl's filter stops Redgum Dust then bye bye 5100-S 
Now back to the arguing and bickering


----------



## thomas72

From the pictures posted on the first page I would say it is a well built saw. If it is anything like the 441 it will be a good seller for Stihl. I need to find me a light weight saw one of these days. The lightest thing I have been using is a 056 magnum II which gets heavy.


----------



## edisto

rms61moparman said:


> Seems to be the ONLY thing you aren't complaining about!
> 
> 
> Mike



You can dismiss me as a complainer if you want, no skin off my nose. You can dismiss me as a 'Brad-hater' if you want as well. It certainly is easy to do.

I have no issues with what Brad did, because he did what he could given the usual constraints.

What started the complaining was me posting the times shown in the videos Brad made. Brad say he didn't look at them, but has a lot to say about them.

He says the data I used weren't appropriate. I fully expected that. Of course they made more cuts than he showed in the videos.

Seemed logical to ask 2 questions: 

1. How were the data that were collected used to get the numbers that were reported? Average of all cuts? That would be good. Sorting of cut times by load? Also good, but only one difference was reported for each comparison. Comparison of selected cuts? Bad. It might seem logical to compare the fastest cut times for each condition, but that can be quite misleading.

2. What are the data? Again, given the circumstances, a logical question to ask, but also a reasonable to expect a "no" from.

What I got was smoke and mirrors about how my expectation for the testing was unrealistic. 

The testing is what it had to be, and would have to be in most cases. I don't have a problem with variation in a data set, but it does make how you look at the data very important.

I was told I just don't understand the variation. I understand it quite well. I also understand that it makes comparisons difficult. That's why I offered to help with the comparisons.

I wouldn't care about the numbers if Brad hadn't used numbers. I wouldn't still be here, and things wouldn't have gone the way they did if Brad had simply told me HOW he did the calculations for the comparisons. I don't expect him to share his numbers.

There are good ways and bad ways to deal with variable data. In general, people seem interested in knowing what the right way is. That's not the case here.

A lot of it is probably how I come across. Not the first time it has been an issue. I get frustrated when people avoid the issue.

Banacanin even sent me a PM offering to give me lessons on how to make a point without offending others...right before he posted his boobs video.


----------



## jeepyfz450

Ed not trying to sound like a A hole here but you keep posting the same BS about data and testing and nobody cares. are you expecting everyone to read your posts and say OMG i finally understand what he has been saying the last 40,0000000 posts? We get it he did a horrible test and should probably be kicked off the site for a few months to think about what he has done......

After reading my own post i am sure you will think i am an A hole so i am apologizing now cause i wont be around later..


----------



## Slamm

jeepyfz450 said:


> Ed not trying to sound like a A hole here but you keep posting the same BS about data and testing and nobody cares. are you expecting everyone to read your posts and say OMG i finally understand what he has been saying the last 40,0000000 posts? We get it he did a horrible test and should probably be kicked off the site for a few months to think about what he has done......
> 
> After reading my own post i am sure you will think i am an A hole so i am apologizing now cause i wont be around later..



No, I don't think you are an A hole, but you did leave out some commons in your large number and the one you did put in is in the wrong place.

How is that for details, LOL,

Sam


----------



## jeepyfz450

where do the comons go? lol


----------



## edisto

jeepyfz450 said:


> Ed not trying to sound like a A hole here but you keep posting the same BS about data and testing and nobody cares. are you expecting everyone to read your posts and say OMG i finally understand what he has been saying the last 40,0000000 posts? *We get it he did a horrible test* and should probably be kicked off the site for a few months to think about what he has done......



That's why I keep posting the same thing over and over. He didn't do a horrible test. I'm not saying that he did.

A: "This coffee is hot."

B: "Why don't you like coffee?"

A: "I like coffee...it's just that this cup is hot."

B: "But it's good coffee. Why don't you like it?"

A: "I do like it...it's just hot."

B: "I get it. You don't like coffee. Why keep repeating it?"

A: "But I do like coffee...."

You'll have to help me understand the "interested in the comparison but not the data" thing as well.


----------



## dingeryote

edisto said:


> That's why I keep posting the same thing over and over. He didn't do a horrible test. I'm not saying that he did.
> 
> A: "This coffee is hot."
> 
> B: "Why don't you like coffee?"
> 
> A: "I like coffee...it's just that this cup is hot."
> 
> B: "But it's good coffee. Why don't you like it?"
> 
> A: "I do like it...it's just hot."
> 
> B: "I get it. You don't like coffee. Why keep repeating it?"
> 
> A: "But I do like coffee...."
> 
> You'll have to help me understand the "interested in the comparison but not the data" thing as well.




If somebody did a comparative analysis of a BB gun and a Howitzer using flawed methodology and the Howitzer came out on top, who the #### cares if the methodology was slightly erronious, when it is otherwise obvious the result is valid.

In the end, when the chips are flying, footing is uneven, the wood is inconsistent, the chain is filed on a log with a file that has been rolling around in a box full of grit, and the operator is constipated, dehydrated and ticked off because his team lost last Sunday.

Data to quantify what is tangible but difficult to otherwise communicate, would be nice,but unneccessary to the practical minded.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## dingeryote

edisto said:


> That's why I keep posting the same thing over and over. He didn't do a horrible test. I'm not saying that he did.
> 
> A: "This coffee is hot."
> 
> B: "Why don't you like coffee?"
> 
> A: "I like coffee...it's just that this cup is hot."
> 
> B: "But it's good coffee. Why don't you like it?"
> 
> A: "I do like it...it's just hot."
> 
> B: "I get it. You don't like coffee. Why keep repeating it?"
> 
> A: "But I do like coffee...."
> 
> You'll have to help me understand the "interested in the comparison but not the data" thing as well.




If somebody did a comparative analysis of a BB gun and a Howitzer using flawed methodology and the Howitzer came out on top, who the #### cares if the methodology was slightly erronious, when it is otherwise obvious the result is valid.

In the end, when the chips are flying, footing is uneven, the wood is inconsistent, the chain is filed on a log with a file that has been rolling around in a box full of grit, and the operator is constipated, dehydrated and ticked off because his team lost last Sunday, data is lost.

Data to quantify what is tangible but difficult to otherwise communicate, would be nice,but unneccessary to the practical minded.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## Cedarkerf

Simple solution to this comparison / test. If you think the methodolagy and data are flawed dont buy this saw based on this comparison. Why some peoples happiness is reliant on other people liking the saw they like is beyond me. Run what ya like like what ya run.


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

edisto said:


> Just following your lead.
> 
> You shouldn't open the door if you're going to worry about who comes in.



........enough is enough!!


----------



## banshee67

edisto said:


> You can dismiss me as a complainer if you want, no skin off my nose. You can dismiss me as a 'Brad-hater' if you want as well. It certainly is easy to do.
> 
> I have no issues with what Brad did, because he did what he could given the usual constraints.
> 
> What started the complaining was me posting the times shown in the videos Brad made. Brad say he didn't look at them, but has a lot to say about them.
> 
> He says the data I used weren't appropriate. I fully expected that. Of course they made more cuts than he showed in the videos.
> 
> Seemed logical to ask 2 questions:
> 
> 1. How were the data that were collected used to get the numbers that were reported? Average of all cuts? That would be good. Sorting of cut times by load? Also good, but only one difference was reported for each comparison. Comparison of selected cuts? Bad. It might seem logical to compare the fastest cut times for each condition, but that can be quite misleading.
> 
> 2. What are the data? Again, given the circumstances, a logical question to ask, but also a reasonable to expect a "no" from.
> 
> What I got was smoke and mirrors about how my expectation for the testing was unrealistic.
> 
> The testing is what it had to be, and would have to be in most cases. I don't have a problem with variation in a data set, but it does make how you look at the data very important.
> 
> I was told I just don't understand the variation. I understand it quite well. I also understand that it makes comparisons difficult. That's why I offered to help with the comparisons.
> 
> I wouldn't care about the numbers if Brad hadn't used numbers. I wouldn't still be here, and things wouldn't have gone the way they did if Brad had simply told me HOW he did the calculations for the comparisons. I don't expect him to share his numbers.
> 
> There are good ways and bad ways to deal with variable data. In general, people seem interested in knowing what the right way is. That's not the case here.
> 
> A lot of it is probably how I come across. Not the first time it has been an issue. I get frustrated when people avoid the issue.
> 
> Banacanin even sent me a PM offering to give me lessons on how to make a point without offending others...right before he posted his boobs video.




we are still talking about chainsaws here, right?


----------



## jeepyfz450

woodsman44 said:


> Go pound wood chips goof ball........enough is enough!!



lol i like that one a lot. its like saying go **** yourself in a nice way......


----------



## 8433jeff

edisto said:


> Everything in moderation. Including moderating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And moderation.



AND STATISTICS, CHARTS, GRAPHS, ETC.

See? Nothing more will come from this. I said before this post (#1168) that the thread should be preserved, with Brads summation of his findings. I trust, not because I'm in his fan club, or have gotten saws worked on for nothing, but because he went out and did it. And invited others to run the saw. We were able to watch some of that. To complain or infer that the testing was not scientific is your right, but also not relevant. If I wanted talk about the science, I'd ask for the Troll to spout numbers and blueprints and weights. Again, not relevant, because numbers and statistics aren't everything, in saws and life. "Lies, damn lies, and statistics." I want to read from the guys who ran the saw, not some graph from a self proclaimed numbers cruncher. I would think all testing could be improved, but you take (or should take) the numbers knowing for a number of different reasons your results may vary. I missed most of this fiasco yesterday while cutting/splitting firewood. I never seen a chart, graph or blueprint cut anything other than my finger. Add to the thread, try not to subtract from it or your own standing by p#ssing all over it.


----------



## Anthony_Va.

8433jeff said:


> AND STATISTICS, CHARTS, GRAPHS, ETC.
> 
> See? Nothing more will come from this. I said before this post (#1168) that the thread should be preserved, with Brads summation of his findings. I trust, not because I'm in his fan club, or have gotten saws worked on for nothing, but because he went out and did it. And invited others to run the saw. We were able to watch some of that. To complain or infer that the testing was not scientific is your right, but also not relevant. If I wanted talk about the science, I'd ask for the Troll to spout numbers and blueprints and weights. Again, not relevant, because numbers and statistics aren't everything, in saws and life. "Lies, damn lies, and statistics." I want to read from the guys who ran the saw, not some graph from a self proclaimed numbers cruncher. I would think all testing could be improved, but you take (or should take) the numbers knowing for a number of different reasons your results may vary. I missed most of this fiasco yesterday while cutting/splitting firewood. I never seen a chart, graph or blueprint cut anything other than my finger. Add to the thread, try not to subtract from it or your own standing by p#ssing all over it.



YEA!!! What he said! :agree2:

Well put buddy. :yourock:


----------



## Banacanin

Leo (Lev Nikolayevich) Tolstoy was born at Yasnaya Polyana, his family's estate, on August 28, 1828, in Russia's Tula Province, the youngest of four sons. His mother died when he was two years old, whereupon his father's distant cousin Tatyana Ergolsky took charge of the children. In 1837 Tolstoy's father died, and an aunt, Alexandra Osten-Saken, became legal guardian of the children. Her religious dedication was an important early influence on Tolstoy. When she died in 1840, the children were sent to Kazan, Russia, to another sister of their father, Pelageya Yushkov.

Tolstoy was educated at home by German and French tutors. He was not a particularly exceptional student but he was good at games. In 1843 he entered Kazan University. Planning on a diplomatic career, he entered the faculty of Oriental languages. Finding these studies too demanding, he switched two years later to studying law. Tolstoy left the university in 1847 without taking his degree.

Tolstoy returned to Yasnaya Polyana, determined to become a model farmer and a "father" to his serfs (unpaid farmhands). His charity failed because of his foolishness in dealing with the peasants (poor, working class) and because he spent too much time socializing in Tula and Moscow. During this time he first began making amazingly honest diary entries, a practice he maintained until his death. These entries provided much material for his fiction, and in a very real sense the collection is one long autobiography.
Army life and early literary career

Nikolay, Tolstoy's eldest brother, visited him at in 1848 in Yasnaya Polyana while on leave from military service in the Caucasus. Leo greatly loved his brother, and when he asked him to join him in the south, Tolstoy agreed. After a long journey, he reached the mountains of the Caucasus, where he sought to join the army as a Junker, or gentleman-volunteer. Tolstoy's habits on a lonely outpost consisted of hunting, drinking, sleeping, chasing the women, and occasionally fighting. During the long lulls he first began to write. In 1852 he sent the autobiographical sketch Childhood to the leading journal of the day, the Contemporary. Nikolai Nekrasov, its editor, was ecstatic, and when it was published (under Tolstoy's initials), so was all of Russia. Tolstoy then began writing The Cossacks (finished in 1862), an account of his life in the outpost.

From November 1854 to August 1855 Tolstoy served in the battered fortress at Sevastopol in southern Ukraine. He had requested transfer to this area, a sight of one of the bloodiest battles of the Crimean War (1853–1956; when Russia battled England and France over land). As he directed fire from the Fourth Bastion, the hottest area in the conflict for a long while, Tolstoy managed to write Youth, the second part of his autobiographical trilogy. He also wrote the three Sevastopol Tales at this time, revealing the distinctive Tolstoyan vision of war as a place of unparalleled confusion and heroism, a special space where men, viewed from the author's neutral, godlike point of view, were at their best and worst.

When the city fell, Tolstoy was asked to make a study of the artillery action during the final assault and to report with it to the authorities in St. Petersburg, Russia. His reception in the capital was a triumphant success. Because of his name, he was welcomed into the most brilliant society. Because of his stories, he was treated as a celebrity by the cream of literary society.
Golden years

In September 1862, Tolstoy married Sofya Andreyevna Bers (or Behrs), a woman sixteen years younger than himself. Daughter of a prominent Moscow doctor, Bers was beautiful, intelligent, and, as the years would show, strong-willed. The first decade of their marriage brought Tolstoy the greatest happiness; never before or after was his creative life so rich or his personal life so full. In June 1863 his wife had the first of their thirteen children.

The first portion of War and Peace was published in 1865 (in the Russian Messenger ) as "The Year 1805." In 1868 three more chapters appeared, and in 1869 he completed the novel. His new novel created a fantastic out-pouring of popular and critical reaction.

Tolstoy's War and Peace represents a high point in the history of world literature, but it was also the peak of Tolstoy's personal life. His characters represent almost everyone he had ever met, including all of his relations on both sides of his family. Balls and battles, birth and death, all were described in amazing detail. In this book the European realistic novel, with its attention to social structures, exact description, and psychological rendering, found its most complete expression.

From 1873 to 1877 Tolstoy worked on the second of his masterworks, Anna Karenina, which also created a sensation upon its publication. The concluding section of the novel was written during another of Russia's seemingly endless wars with Turkey. The novel was based partly on events that had occurred on a neighboring estate, where a nobleman's rejected mistress had thrown herself under a train. It again contained great chunks of disguised biography, especially in the scenes describing the courtship and marriage of Kitty and Levin. Tolstoy's family continued to grow, and his royalties (money earned from sales) were making him an extremely rich man.
Spiritual crisis

The ethical quest that had begun when Tolstoy was a child and that had tormented him throughout his younger years now drove him to abandon all else in order to seek an ultimate meaning in life. At first he turned to the Russian Orthodox Church, visiting the Optina-Pustyn monastery in 1877. But he found no answer.

In 1883 Tolstoy met V. G. Chertkov, a wealthy guard officer who soon became the moving force behind an attempt to start a movement in Tolstoy's name. In the next few years a new publication was founded (the Mediator ) in order to spread Tolstoy's word in tract (pamphlets) and fiction, as well as to make good reading available to the poor. In six years almost twenty million copies were distributed. Tolstoy had long been watched by the secret police, and in 1884 copies of What I Believe were seized from the printer.

During this time Tolstoy's relations with his family were becoming increasingly strained. The more of a saint he became in the eyes of the world, the more of a devil he seemed to his wife. He wanted to give his wealth away, but she would not hear of it. An unhappy compromise was reached in 1884, when Tolstoy assigned to his wife the copyright to all his works before 1881.

Tolstoy's final years were filled with worldwide acclaim and great unhappiness, as he was caught in the strife between his beliefs, his followers, and his family. The Holy Synod (the church leaders) excommunicated (kicked him out) him in 1901. Unable to endure the quarrels at home he set out on his last pilgrimage (religious journey) in October 1910, accompanied by his youngest daughter, Alexandra, and his doctor. The trip proved too much, and he died in the home of the stationmaster of the small depot at Astapovo, Russia, on November 9, 1910. He was buried at Yasnaya Polyana.
For More Information

Rancour-Laferriere, Daniel. Tolstoy on the Couch: Misogyny, Masochism, and the Absent Mother. New York: New York University Press, 1998.

Troyat, Henri. Tolstoy. Garden City, NY: Doubleday, 1967. Reprint, New York: Grove Press, 2001.

Wilson, A. N. Tolstoy. London: H. Hamilton, 1988.


Read more: Leo Tolstoy Biography - life, family, childhood, children, name, death, history, wife, mother, book, old, information, born, marriage, time, year, sister http://www.notablebiographies.com/St-Tr/Tolstoy-Leo.html#ixzz15wmFIMy9


----------



## chopperfreak2k1

i just wanted to say a couple things. first it has never been mentioned (to my knowledge) that the vids could have been mis-labeled and thats why Edisto says the MM was slower and Brad says not. maybe the MM and stock vids were mixed up accidently, it happens?

my second thought is that i never took what Edisto said as an attack like it seems to have been recieved. i really felt like he was offering some advice on how to improve the next comparrisons we as a site make. however i will say that he came across kinda rough and i can understand how most kinda took it as he was putting down the test that Brad worked so hard on. ha! i said hard on!!

i think what needs to be taken from here is Brad didn't need to make us any vids, or offer up his findings. that was above and beyond in my eyes, thank you Brad. 

Brad's findings are correct and accepted as such.

and finally, Edisto taught us how to do these sorts of tests more precisely in the future with little to no extra work.

please leave all the rest behind, this thread has turned into an embarressment due to all the bickering.


----------



## funky sawman

WTF happened to this great thread. Common guys, act like growen ups, GOSH. this was a great read for the first 50 some pages. Thats enough already.:jawdrop::jawdrop:


----------



## funky sawman

BTW, Brad, thank you much for the review on the 261. thank I'll try one. I never would have put this saw to the test myself without a review on arborist site first.


----------



## blsnelling

funky sawman said:


> BTW, Brad, thank you much for the review on the 261. thank I'll try one. I never would have put this saw to the test myself without a review on arborist site first.



Thanks! BTW, there's some more video footage of it from today in another thread I started tonight.


----------



## forcedintoit

All i know is this..........Brad is going to make me one of these 261's! It's a snellerized Christmas for me!:chainsawguy:


----------



## Harzack223

After putting 2 tanks of fuel through mine I like it a lot. For what I cut this will be my go to saw and may just get ported in the coming months.


----------



## blsnelling

forcedintoit said:


> All i know is this..........Brad is going to make me one of these 261's! It's a snellerized Christmas for me!:chainsawguy:



Did I just hear you singing...

Merry Christmas to me,
Merry Christmas to me....


----------



## forcedintoit

blsnelling said:


> Did I just hear you singing...
> 
> Merry Christmas to me,
> Merry Christmas to me....



Damn Straight i was singing!:rocker:


----------



## wigglesworth

So.........where is the 3/8" test at?


----------



## dieselram

I was wondering when this thread was going to pop up again... I kind of miss it... :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling

Here are some shots of the air filter after several tanks of fuel.


















Compression is right at 180 PSI.


----------



## dieselram

What kind of compression does a stock one have???


----------



## dingeryote

blsnelling said:


> Here are some shots of the air filter after several tanks of fuel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compression is right at 180 PSI.




Looks like the Husky air injection works well!:hmm3grin2orange:
With all that filter surface area, it should be a "Lifetime" component.

Have you considered a velocity stack yet?

I can't look at the 261's intake set up without thinking of a Bonneville 650.
It works, but it's begging to be tinkered with. LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## forcedintoit

Brad, She should be headed your way in a couple days!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZcaDoUbeec&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## Cedarkerf

dingeryote said:


> Looks like the Husky air injection works well!:hmm3grin2orange:
> With all that filter surface area, it should be a "Lifetime" component.
> 
> Have you considered a velocity stack yet?
> 
> I can't look at the 261's intake set up without thinking of a Bonneville 650.
> It works, but it's begging to be tinkered with. LOL!!
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



You talkin about the Atom air injection:jester:


----------



## Banacanin

Is this where we go to post snackey pics?


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

Thanks Brad for giving me the bright idea of photo's on dinning room table......lol

Yep, Brads right, this 261 pulls hard through the oak, much better than my MS260 pro (I still love the 260, very good saw) This is my new "go 2 saw" for my tree service busness.

Here's some pics of the big bore MS261!!! opcorn:


----------



## banshee67

doublepost


----------



## banshee67

nice 261.. how does it compare to the 346? has anyone had a chance to run both yet? opcorn:


----------



## bcorradi

banshee67 said:


> doublepost


I heard it fairs pretty good, but the Norwegian Equilibrium is poor.


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

banshee67 said:


> nice 261.. how does it compare to the 346? has anyone had a chance to run both yet? opcorn:



Whats a 346?...All I see is creamsickles baby!!!!!.....opcorn:


----------



## CentaurG2

forcedintoit said:


> Brad, She should be headed your way in a couple days!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZcaDoUbeec&feature=youtube_gdata_player



Dude, is that chain on backwards or just plain dull from the factory?? From my angle it seems to be to be blowing a lot of dust and if it was going any slower thru that log, it would be in reverse. What gives??


----------



## forcedintoit

CentaurG2 said:


> Dude, is that chain on backwards or just plain dull from the factory?? From my angle it seems to be to be blowing a lot of dust and if it was going any slower thru that log, it would be in reverse. What gives??



I filmed it with my iPhone and the light was in the background, the chips were good size chips, not the safety chain that come with it. Had the dealer swap me chains. It was brand new .325 stihl rsc. Good chips from dead ash! The saw is awesome! Can not wait to get it to Brad and do his magic!


----------



## CentaurG2

That was stihl .325 rsc?? Yea, must be the dry ash and the filming angle.


----------



## Andyshine77

I was going to say it just looks like hard dry ash wood.


----------



## forcedintoit

I got a chance to run my 261 today for a couple hours and all I can say is I am VERY impressed! it runs real strong for a 50cc saw and it is only had 2 tanks of fuel through it! Now it is on its way to see Brad tomorrow to get some steroids injected into it!!!!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## jeepyfz450

very cool to hear and you will probably get the best gift this year.


----------



## SawTroll

I don't really understand why anyone is interested in the MS261 at all, as it surely is outdated before it even fully hits the market?`


----------



## porsche965

I ran three tanks through mine today along with other saws. 18" bar in 36" wood just for long bar buried cuts. Figure the warranty will work if she breaks. Not even a tremble. Still very impressed with this little saw. There are no rough edges that one can find to complain about as with allot of saws. Seems like Stihl has a very nice replacement for the MS260. And today the wood was dusty, wind blowing, everything stirred up and now at 5 plus tanks the filter is barely noticably used. I've never seen such a clean saw. 

Stihl will sell allot of these saws. Competition is good for everyone, now it's Husky's turn for something new and outstanding!


----------



## porsche965

SawTroll said:


> I don't really understand why anyone is interested in the MS261 at all, as it surely is outdated before it even fully hits the market?`



That's why it is good to buy early ST, and sell into strength as the market expands. Then buy the next greatest coming out! Can't beat Capitalism. Even though "O" is implementing Socialism everwhere you look. 

I see that Husky has a saw with the captive bar nuts coming out. Or if it is out I haven't seen it yet... 

The MS261 is a very nice saw in it's class IMO.


----------



## 2000ssm6

porsche965 said:


> Competition is good for everyone, now it's Husky's turn for something new and outstanding!



Hopefully they can raise the "bar".


----------



## 2000ssm6

forcedintoit said:


> I got a chance to run my 261 today for a couple hours and all I can say is I am VERY impressed!



I can't decide if I want to run mine or just send it off right then. Is there such thing as a good problem?


----------



## forcedintoit

2000ssm6 said:


> I can't decide if I want to run mine or just send it off right then. Is there such thing as a good problem?



I just wanted to know how big of a difference the porting will be!


----------



## forcedintoit

this thread is not working!


----------



## FATGUY

2000ssm6 said:


> I can't decide if I want to run mine or just send it off right then. Is there such thing as a good problem?



I'd run it stock for a tank or two (which by the way is quite a bit of cutting) just to get a feel for it. It's a really nice saw.


----------



## edisto

FATGUY said:


> I'd run it stock for a tank or two (which by the way is quite a bit of cutting) just to get a feel for it. It's a really nice saw.



They were built for efficiency.

Any feel on how much change there is to fuel use with the non-strato port job relative to the difference between a stock and ported conventionally aspirated saw?

Not that too many people would mind trading gas for power. I was pretty surprised at how quickly my 076 runs dry, but I'm going to run it every chance I get!


----------



## Andyshine77

I'm going to guess it uses quite a bit more fuel, but it's still a 50cc saw so it still cant be all that bad.

I know my 084 swallows fuel as fast as Fatguy can a beer.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## DavesMower&Saw

Still no regular MS261's, but we will have MS362 and MS460 Arctic saws shortly.


----------



## Philbert

DavesMower&Saw said:


> Still no regular MS261's, but we will have MS362 and MS460 Arctic saws shortly.



Based on the TV weather images, it looks like all of your saws will be 'Arctic' this week!

Philbert


----------



## edisto

Andyshine77 said:


> I'm going to guess it uses quite a bit more fuel, but it's still a 50cc saw so it still cant be all that bad.
> 
> I know my 084 swallows fuel as fast as Fatguy can a beer.:hmm3grin2orange:



It's a Canadian thing.

I was just wondering how the change in fuel consumption compared to the increase with a port job on a non-strato saw.

Maybe a percentage...:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## wendell

I got to run Kingsley's 261 today (Thank you, Marty!!). Very nice saw, smooth as silk, definitely quick cutting and feels really nice in the cut. I was surprised when I picked it up as it did feel heavier than I expected.

But, I don't think it was noticeably faster than my 346 and for what I use a 50 CC saw for, I definitely like the handling of the 346 better.

But, I will not argue with anyone who says they like the 261 better. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Andyshine77

edisto said:


> It's a Canadian thing.
> 
> I was just wondering how the change in fuel consumption compared to the increase with a port job on a non-strato saw.
> 
> Maybe a percentage...:hmm3grin2orange:



lol you would be the one to want a hard number with empirical data to back it up.


----------



## MCW

I know this is about the 4 millionth post but I imported one of the MS261's for a customer interstate. He rang the other day and is obviously extremely happy after it arrived. He has also leant the saw to one of his mates for a few weeks who owns and operates a very large, well known arborist business. His mate is going to give it a good run and give a review back on what he thinks. Should be interesting as the MS261 isn't available in Australia yet


----------



## Andyshine77

Matt I think he'll be happy with it, I really think Stihl did a good job with this saw, it sure has a lot of Husky in it lol.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## MCW

Andyshine77 said:


> Matt I think he'll be happy with it, I really think Stihl did a good job with this saw, it sure has a lot of Husky in it lol.:hmm3grin2orange:



Yeah they look really good Andy. Aren't you meant to be asleep or something? 
The report back from this guy is very important to me as if the 261's filter can keep Redgum dust out without oiling my 5100-S will be sold and replaced with a new 261. The brand new MS260 I received is still sitting on the loungeroom floor awaiting sale and the balance feels really nice. Very tempted to fuel it up and cut something but they are about a $1000 saw out here I think so on eBay she shall go  Should get about $800+ for it. Last one on there sold for AUD$899.


----------



## Andyshine77

MCW said:


> Yeah they look really good Andy. Aren't you meant to be asleep or something?
> The report back from this guy is very important to me as if the 261's filter can keep Redgum dust out without oiling my 5100-S will be sold and replaced with a new 261. The brand new MS260 I received is still sitting on the loungeroom floor awaiting sale and the balance feels really nice. Very tempted to fuel it up and cut something but they are about a $1000 saw out here I think so on eBay she shall go  Should get about $800+ for it. Last one on there sold for AUD$899.



800 for a 260 WOW!

Yup I should be in bed, had a good day, but a long one. Me and Nik took down Moparman aka Mike's Dolmar 9010 that Brad ported, I think he was a happy guy.


----------



## MCW

Andyshine77 said:


> 800 for a 260 WOW!
> 
> Yup I should be in bed, had a good day, but a long one. Me and Nik took down Moparman aka Mike's Dolmar 9010 that Brad ported, I think he was a happy guy.



Cool! I nearly bought a 9010 but was talked out of it by a US Dolmar dealer. How the hell I ended up progressing from a 9010/395XP to a 3120 I'll never know 
But yeah, I absolutely hate having to oil filters like in the 5100-S, 390XP/XPG, and the 3120. Time consuming cleaning them and messy. Thats why the HD kits on the 7900's make those saws my favourites 
If the little 261 holds up then more power to Stihl!!! (well at least a little more...)


----------



## Andyshine77

MCW said:


> Cool! I nearly bought a 9010 but was talked out of it by a US Dolmar dealer. How the hell I ended up progressing from a 9010/395XP to a 3120 I'll never know
> But yeah, I absolutely hate having to oil filters like in the 5100-S, 390XP/XPG, and the 3120. Time consuming cleaning them and messy. Thats why the HD kits on the 7900's make those saws my favourites
> If the little 261 holds up then more power to Stihl!!! (well at least a little more...)



Now that I think of it the 9010 probably isn't the best choice for you, the filter is definitely old school. I'm sure it's fine for the wood and conditions most of us here in the U.S. have however.


----------



## WoodChuck'r

As much as I grew to hate this thread, I still would rather read threads about saws rather than threads that entail all the whining about the awesome new site update.


So how's about that 261 eh? Looks like to be a pretty decent saw.....


----------



## TraditionalTool

WoodChucker81 said:


> As much as I grew to hate this thread, I still would rather read threads about saws rather than threads that entail all the whining about the awesome new site update.


I guess that says something coming from someone that started one of the whining threads...

Hypocrisy runs rabid everywhere...



WoodChucker81 said:


> So how's about that 261 eh? Looks like to be a pretty decent saw.....


Weight wise it still looks heavier than the 346xp, by at least .5 lb, and possible 1 lb.

That weight could be critical for some folks. (i.e., me;-)


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## WoodChuck'r

TraditionalTool said:


> I guess that says something coming from someone that started one of the whining threads...
> 
> Hypocrisy runs rabid everywhere...
> 
> 
> Weight wise it still looks heavier than the 346xp, by at least .5 lb, and possible 1 lb.
> 
> That weight could be critical for some folks. (i.e., me;-)


 

Well I wasn't whining about the site update, I was whining about the whiners! They started it! If you can't beat'em, join'em!!  


And yeah that extra weight on the 261 makes it not as sideways balanced as that 346.


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## TraditionalTool

WoodChucker81 said:


> Well I wasn't whining about the site update, I was whining about the whiners! They started it! If you can't beat'em, join'em!!


Just pokin' at 'ya...oke:

With the new color scheme I'm rather feeling like a gay lumberjack these days! :kilt:



WoodChucker81 said:


> And yeah that extra weight on the 261 makes it not as sideways balanced as that 346.


Hey, that's a feature on the 346! :monkey:

Most of the features look like things that should have been fixed on the 260 a number of years ago...but who am I to say... These newer strato saws from Stihl are kinda like their rice rocket line of saws...:jester:


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## WoodChuck'r

TraditionalTool said:


> Just pokin' at 'ya...oke:
> 
> With the new color scheme I'm rather feeling like a gay lumberjack these days! :kilt:
> 
> 
> Hey, that's a feature on the 346! :monkey:
> 
> Most of the features look like things that should have been fixed on the 260 a number of years ago...but who am I to say... These newer strato saws from Stihl are kinda like their rice rocket line of saws...:jester:


 

Lol I'm down with GLJ's. 

The sideways balance comment was refering to SawTroll's comment about the 261. I was picking on him a little bit.  S'all good ST, I love ya buddy. 

Yeah TT I hear ya there on the delayed update. I haven't run a 261 yet but I'm sure it's badass. I can agree all day though that Stihl just takes too long to update stuff. Once they do though their saws are as good as any other. 

I'm sure both saws have a pro and con here and there for most people anyways. S'not much different from the Ford / Chevy battle really. Speaking of which I'm a Ford guy myself, lol.....


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## TraditionalTool

WoodChucker81 said:


> Yeah TT I hear ya there on the delayed update. I haven't run a 261 yet but I'm sure it's badass. I can agree all day though that Stihl just takes too long to update stuff. Once they do though their saws are as good as any other.
> 
> I'm sure both saws have a pro and con here and there for most people anyways. S'not much different from the Ford / Chevy battle really. Speaking of which I'm a Ford guy myself, lol.....


I agree 'chucker, I'm sure it is a bad arse saw...who knows, maybe I'll get one, or maybe not. I still don't have a 346xp, but use a rebuilt 350 for a bit of work.

It is like Ford/Chevy battles I 'spose. I used to be a Chevy fan when I was younger, but these days I own a Ford.

Bring me your trees, I need WOOD! (8000 lb. payload :hmm3grin2orange: )


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## Blitz

MCW said:


> The brand new MS260 I received is still sitting on the loungeroom floor awaiting sale and the balance feels really nice. Very tempted to fuel it up and cut something but they are about a $1000 saw out here I think so on eBay she shall go  Should get about $800+ for it. Last one on there sold for AUD$899.



Matt, the RRP on the 260 here is $1,249.00:jawdrop::jawdrop::jawdrop: at least it was when I bought mine. Pretty hard to get Stihl dealers to haggle as well


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## MCW

Blitz said:


> Matt, the RRP on the 260 here is *$1,249.00*:jawdrop::jawdrop::jawdrop: at least it was when I bought mine. Pretty hard to get Stihl dealers to haggle as well



MOTHER OF GOD!!! So it's not just the 200T thats a rip off here then... (well actually I knew that we get ripped anyway, just not that much on the 260!)


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## HemiMoparGuy

WOO HOOO, I've reached the end. I literally just spent all day yesterday (had the day off work) and an hour today reading this whole thread just so I can't be griped at for asking a question that may have been answered in the intertwining's of this thread. If I had to estimate I'd say 85 pages of TOTAL HS and prolly 5 pages of useful information; of which every piece of it was quite useful, and I think I have my answer, but not directly...so here goes chancing opening this can of worms (and thread) again...

I am aiming this at Brad, but all others are welcome as long as it is directly related to my question (i.e. no answers like "just get a husky xxxne, oe, e-tech blah blah blah) Oringinally I was set on an 044 with 046bb top, an 066bb, and prolly 026, and def want the feather MS200R...then I was thinking of a 362 and an 066bb before this thread, now I am thinking I want a 261, 441, and then maybe an 066bb, and I still want the 200R just because. So do you think this would be a decent setup (261, 441, and down the road 066bb)??


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## oscar4883

HMG, you are really overthinking this. I respect you trying to find a perfect set-up but it is not that crucial. Here are some combos from myself and a couple other residential tree guys. 200t, 026 or 350, 372 or 460BB, 064 or 660BB. Another one would be 200t, 026, MS362, 066. Or this 200t, 372, MS650. Let it be noted that other than those of us that grind stumps, the 85-90+cc saws are not used anywhere near as much as the others. My point is that there are lots of combinations that will work. 50/70/and if needed 90cc saws are good plans. If I were you I would skip the 200t unless you climb, skip the 200R unless you are really wealthy, and settle on a good 50cc like a 346, a 70cc likes a 372/441/460. If you actually NEED a 90cc saw just get whatever feels best to you.


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## super3

HemiMoparGuy said:


> So do you think this would be a decent setup (261, 441, and down the road 066bb)??




Good combo,and if that's what makes ya happy, that's all that matters.


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## HemiMoparGuy

oscar4883 said:


> HMG, you are really overthinking this. I respect you trying to find a perfect set-up but it is not that crucial. Here are some combos from myself and a couple other residential tree guys. 200t, 026 or 350, 372 or 460BB, 064 or 660BB. Another one would be 200t, 026, MS362, 066. Or this 200t, 372, MS650. Let it be noted that other than those of us that grind stumps, the 85-90+cc saws are not used anywhere near as much as the others. My point is that there are lots of combinations that will work. 50/70/and if needed 90cc saws are good plans. If I were you I would skip the 200t unless you climb, skip the 200R unless you are really wealthy, and settle on a good 50cc like a 346, a 70cc likes a 372/441/460. If you actually NEED a 90cc saw just get whatever feels best to you.



While I am not wealthy (yet) by any means (otherwise I would have ran out and bought up all these saws by now, instead of pestering you guys about advice to decide on the perfect collection) I do want what I want...basically, I am wanting a very diversified and usable "collection" of saws...which is essentially the only reason for a 200R, but def not a new one, looking for a "stihl" on one, maybe rebuildable. The 200T is the absolute last one on my list, and one just to take shelf space basically as my [email protected]$$ won't be climbing unless I HAVE to. And as far as the 066bb, that is to have just in case...never know when you might need it. I realize that a 441 will do just about anything the 066 will just not nearly as fast, but again, I want sort of a collection. I had the setup in my wish list picked out for some time now but then go to thinking a 044/046bb topend is only like 15 cc different than an 066bb (if I recall my math correctly, don't quote exact number) so I started thinking the 036-362 line to be a bit further away from the 066bb...then I found this exciting "rope" (too big to be a thread) and Brad's wonderful findings, thoughts, and opinions on this 261 which he claims can become pretty close to a 362 has me thinking about that A LOT now...close power, less weight (I'm not going to get caught up in which comparable competitor saw may weigh less, but I do like having saws with less weight...like being set on the 200R) Then you say if needed, a 90cc saw...does anyone (individual, not company) really NEED one lol?? But again I want sort of a collection. Good advice though, thanks bunches...just thought I'd try to clear some things up as to why I "need" all this stuff



super3 said:


> Good combo,and if that's what makes ya happy, that's all that matters.


 
I think I am getting in touch with my feminine side over saws, as I keep changing my mind back and forth and back and forth


Also, thought of another question...Brad?? Have you used this 261 enough after the porting to gauge if it is still pretty good on fuel (obviously not like original) but compared to other saws of similar power (not cc, but power that you created)?? BTW thank you for the in depth real world review of this saw...I think...it is making me come up with many more questions on my lineup, so I "hate" you for that, but its all good...


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## porsche965

15 tanks through my MS261 and it has finally leveled off in power. Just a steady gain. Not one complaint, Added a MS361 Spike kit with chainroller. 12 tanks before I shook out some minor dust from the air filter. 

There really isn't much you can't cut with a 50/70 cc saw plan. But it sure is fun collecting saws!


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## HemiMoparGuy

porsche965 said:


> 15 tanks through my MS261 and it has finally leveled off in power. Just a steady gain. Not one complaint, Added a MS361 Spike kit with chainroller. 12 tanks before I shook out some minor dust from the air filter.
> 
> There really isn't much you can't cut with a 50/70 cc saw plan. But it sure is fun collecting saws!


 
I recall you talking about it in the thread, but can't remember details...is yours suped up at all?


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## porsche965

*261*

My 261 is stock. When more HP is needed I just reach for the next size up.


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## GASoline71

Why bump this retarded thread? you will get more hits to your query if you post your own thread in the open forum.

Gary


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## HemiMoparGuy

GASoline71 said:


> Why bump this retarded thread? you will get more hits to your query if you post your own thread in the open forum.
> 
> Gary


 
Yeah, I thought twice about it...but it seems I always get yelled at for starting a new one when one already exists. I don't recall if it was here exactly, but I go to a lot of forums and its hard to keep them straight which ones get aggitated for bumping related threads, and which don't like new similar threads...I do apologize. I kinda figured that since my questions were mostly specifically aimed at Brad and his saw that I would for sure get his attention with this one rather than hoping I'd catch his eye with a new one


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## Andyshine77

PM's are always an option if you have a question for a specific forum member.


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## HemiMoparGuy

Andyshine77 said:


> PM's are always an option if you have a question for a specific forum member.


 
Yeah, I don't really like PM'ing people that I don't really know without an invitation. If I was more known or at least BS'd back and forth in a thread then I'd woulda PM'd but since I hardly know him, I didn't really feel welcome in a sense.


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## GASoline71

Heck I would PM someone without hesitation. Whether I know them or not. 

Gary


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## edisto

GASoline71 said:


> Heck I would PM someone without hesitation. Whether I know them or not.
> 
> Gary


 
PM sent!


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## blsnelling

HemiMoparGuy said:


> I am aiming this at Brad, but all others are welcome as long as it is directly related to my question (i.e. no answers like "just get a husky xxxne, oe, e-tech blah blah blah) Oringinally I was set on an 044 with 046bb top, an 066bb, and prolly 026, and def want the feather MS200R...then I was thinking of a 362 and an 066bb before this thread, now I am thinking I want a 261, 441, and then maybe an 066bb, and I still want the 200R just because. So do you think this would be a decent setup (261, 441, and down the road 066bb)??


 
Skip the 60cc saw. The 261 and 441 make an excellent combo.


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## HemiMoparGuy

blsnelling said:


> Skip the 60cc saw. The 261 and 441 make an excellent combo.


 
Have you used your 261 to know fuel mileage since he major porting? Is it still somewhat of a sipper for a saw of it's power?


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## blsnelling

HemiMoparGuy said:


> Have you used your 261 to know fuel mileage since he major porting? Is it still somewhat of a sipper for a saw of it's power?


 
I haven't had a chance to use it that much. I seriously doubt it's a sipper though. It's got to burn some fuel to make more power than most 70cc saws.


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## THALL10326

edisto said:


> PM sent!



He doesn't want to talk to you,LOLOLOLOL

I finally got in a batch of 261's today, finally. Giving it a good close look over it does appear to be right niffty. Its rather large compare to the 260 it replaced and its a tad heavier but no so much it would bother anyone cept my buddy Sawtroll, he's such a weakling,LOL The saw is really nothing more than a mini 362 by looking at it. 

We got buried in snow this evening so I didn't get a chance to run any of them. Seems many were wondering just how does the 261 stack up againist the 346 and 5100 in the cut. I got all three now and all three are bone stock. Due to my delicate skin I won't bother to make a side by side in the cut in this cold snow, maybe when its warmer, even so I'm betting ahead of time there isn't enuff difference between the three in the cut to be fussing over. In terms of beauty now the 261 is by far the prettiest of the three. Yes looks matter when sales is your biz.

BTW hows my kid doing? You keep that house warm ya hear and make sure she has plenty of blankets on the bed. Tell her pop said hello..


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## blsnelling

THALL10326 said:


> BTW hows my kid doing? You keep that house warm ya hear and make sure she has plenty of blankets on the bed. Tell her pop said hello..


 
I'm taking great care of my beloved 261:hmm3grin2orange:


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## THALL10326

blsnelling said:


> I'm taking great care of my beloved 261:hmm3grin2orange:


 

Ya nut,LOLOL


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## wendell

THALL10326 said:


> Due to my delicate skin I won't bother to make a side by side in the cut in this cold snow, maybe when its warmer, even so I'm betting ahead of time there isn't enuff difference between the three in the cut to be fussing over.


 
To protect your delicate skin, I'll answer your question. You're exactly right, the 261 is a little faster, the 346 is a little more nimble and the 5100 is a fine saw too and there will be fights on here for years to come over which one is better, even though there isn't enough difference to be fussing over.

But, I would say that beauty is in the eye of the creamsicle goggle wearer. :kissing:


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## THALL10326

wendell said:


> To protect your delicate skin, I'll answer your question. You're exactly right, the 261 is a little faster, the 346 is a little more nimble and the 5100 is a fine saw too and there will be fights on here for years to come over which one is better, even though there isn't enough difference to be fussing over.
> 
> But, I would say that beauty is in the eye of the creamsicle goggle wearer. :kissing:



I figured as much. There's only so much power you can squeeze of a 50cc stock saw. Seems all three makers now have got about all they can get out of them, Stihl being the last to join the power houses in the 50cc range. They just couldn't warrant getting rid of the 026/260 because it sold so well for so long. 

I'm glad you came in and cleared all that up. Its been too cold outside for this ole cat to be messing with saws. I realized today just how old I am. I used to love snow, driving home in it today I was cussing every flake of it,grrrrrrrrrr.


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## wendell

Don't you worry, Tommy, I am here for you.


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## DavesMower&Saw

Looks like we're finally getting the 261's next week along with the MS291's, and MS441 CM saws.


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## opinion

I sell the 261 as a pro upgrade from the 290 because it's no longer tiny like the 260 to promote as a limbing saw. The 261 is for bucking and felling small trees in my opinion with much better weight and balance than a 290. It will be interesting to see how the 291 will fit.

BTW, do any of you sell the SE 122 vac's? Do you know which company makes them?


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## edisto

THALL10326 said:


> BTW hows my kid doing? You keep that house warm ya hear and make sure she has plenty of blankets on the bed. Tell her pop said hello..



She's plenty warm...and seems to have your gift of gab. She's conversing all day (even in her sleep), but never says anything that is intelligible. LOL.


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## PLMCRZY

So i read the whole thread last night. All i got from it was weight, and chain pitch arguements. Altho brads posts were nice to read. The rest of you ladies should of taken it else where.


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## THALL10326

edisto said:


> She's plenty warm...and seems to have your gift of gab. She's conversing all day (even in her sleep), but never says anything that is intelligible. LOL.


 
Thats ma girl. She'll grow up to be beautifull, witty and of course charming just like her dad, I can't wait to see her nextime I come down your way. BTW Ed, could you pm me your work sechedule. I need to make sure where you are when I come down to see ma girl, thanks man, I knew you would fully understand,hehehe


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## Jacob J.

GASoline71 said:


> Heck I would PM someone without hesitation. Whether I know them or not.
> 
> Gary


 
Yeah, you're just obnoxious that way.


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## edisto

THALL10326 said:


> Thats ma girl. She'll grow up to be beautifull, witty and of course charming just like her dad, I can't wait to see her nextime I come down your way. BTW Ed, could you pm me your work sechedule. I need to make sure where you are when I come down to see ma girl, thanks man, I knew you would fully understand,hehehe


 
The wife is going to be ticked that you misplaced the schedule she sent. I don't know why she puts up with you.


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## D&B Mack

*Finally!!!*

Finally, distributor to my shop is going to ship. ETA for 261 in my garage... T - 8 Days. :drooln:


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## DavesMower&Saw

D&B Mack said:


> Finally, distributor to my shop is going to ship. ETA for 261 in my garage... T - 8 Days. :drooln:


 
Yep I got the email this morning, they'll be in stock the beginning of the week at the distributor. Only reason for the delay in shipping them was they waited until the MS260's were gone.


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## Terry Syd

Brad, I just took a look at this thread. I peered into that stock carb and wondered what size it was. I tried to make some comparisons with a carb I have and using the mounting hole diameter and comparison with the picture on the screen - I estimated a carb venturi on the MS261 of only 12.5mm.

That can't be correct, what size is the stock carb?


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## Floris

Guys,

Here in Belgium the MS261 comes with a .325" chain. Is it the same in your country's?

And if so, do you guys change to 3/8" or better keep the .325"?


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## The Count

we don`t yet have in Romania the 261 in the shops but the 260 came with .325 RSC
peoples here are conservative and even the 362 is rarely on the shelf. the 361 still makes the demand and they say there is no reason or need for the 362


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## MCW

Floris said:


> Guys,
> 
> Here in Belgium the MS261 comes with a .325" chain. Is it the same in your country's?
> 
> And if so, do you guys change to 3/8" or better keep the .325"?



I ordered my 261 with 3/8" chain because thats my personal preference. Just so happens it has enough torque and power to pull it well too  .325" smoother but doesn't hold up as well as 3/8" in the dirty stuff.


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## Steelz

My MS 261 20" came with .325. Most if not all the wood I'm cutting is clean.


----------

