# How long after logging does the land look natural again?



## JOE.G (May 23, 2012)

Hi, I had about 30 Acers of my land Logged, Due to the weather this year ( Real Mild ground wasn't frozen for long ) I didn't get as much wood as I had wanted out but still got a some. The area I had logged had a lot of Hemlock on it ( I have Cherry,ash Maple and other hard woods in different areas ) and I have a mill that takes that kind of wood not far from me. Now I know that Hemlock has a ton of Branchs and what not and I also know it depends on the kind of job the logger did. But I am wondering how long till the tops and the branchs start to rot? In ten years can you still tell it's been touched?


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## Oldtimer (May 23, 2012)

Hemlock slash will last a little longer than hardwood, so will pine. But in 10 years all you'll see out there is the stumps. Hemlock and pine stumps can last for 50 years in the right conditions.
Hardwood slash will be gone in 3 years, and the stumps will either rot away in 10 or sprout new growth.


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## JOE.G (May 23, 2012)

How long does Hemlock Slash last 5 years? It's in Piles not spread out all over, There are some Bigger sections that he left behind, Id like for someone to come and take for free for fire wood.


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## 2dogs (May 23, 2012)

Can you burn the slash piles?


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## Oldtimer (May 23, 2012)

Piles will take longer than if it's spead out low where moisture can help it decay. Nobody will want it for the wood, even for free. Too much work for low quality wood.
Spread it out, or if you can do it legally and safely...burn it.

Is this logged section to be used for other purposes besides growing wood?


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## ShaneLogs (May 23, 2012)

JOE.G said:


> How long does Hemlock Slash last 5 years? It's in Piles not spread out all over, There are some Bigger sections that he left behind, Id like for someone to come and take for free for fire wood.



I have found out that in my experience, Hemlock slash lasts about 5 years if it spread out. Maybe even a little quicker in a pile because all the bottom of the pile will rot down first. Maybe some herbicide will take care of your problem ? Or take the slash and have a bon fire ? LOL


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## ShaneLogs (May 23, 2012)

Or just bulldoze all the stumps out and all the slash and pile them up way in the woods somewhere and forget about it.


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## JOE.G (May 23, 2012)

Al ot of people have out door stoves here, The Slash wouldn't be good for that but there are some big log's in there, Also there are a lot of people that sell camp fire wood around here also.

The woods is used for four wheeling, hunting and hiking. I could burn it in certain spots and I have thought about that, We had made some clearing made while logging. Now that the ferns are growing up it does look better, All the logging trails are still real muddy everytime it rains.


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## Oldtimer (May 23, 2012)

IMO, forget trying to landscape the woods. Do what can be seen from your immediate yard, and let nature take care of the rest. It's erosion control, and food for the next crop of trees.


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## madhatte (May 23, 2012)

Less disturbance is generally better. Most soils have a limited tolerance for machinery. If the slash is already on the ground and spread out, leave it. If it's already piled, leave it. Burning is OK if you can do it, but check with your local FD first. Air quality is a political time bomb these days, and you may not be able to get approval for burning slash piles. Replant in accordance with local laws.


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## JOE.G (May 23, 2012)

I bought my current place about two years ago, after gutting the house to the studs and re doing everything I have now moved on to the yard, I have added Chicken coop and some smaller sheds, I am going to add a larger out building this year I hope. I have about three acers that I mow and I have cleared out the wood line near my Lawn and home to make it look clean, Took out trees and lower Branchs and really opened it up so you can see a ways from the porch. The pole Saw I bought has been a real helpful tool. I have a cherry tree that dies in the yard and Ill be dropping that tom. I enjoy a nice clean looking property, Even though many people don't go walking all over my property I enjoy a nice neat woods when I go for my hikes or camping fishing or hunting with my kids.


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## Oldtimer (May 23, 2012)

Neat and clean does not in any way mean healthy as far as forest goes.

But to each his own. More power to ya.

I know a guy who spent the best part of 20 years making his 90 acres look like a city park...no limbs, no rotting wood, looked like it was a campground almost.

He "finished" in the fall of 1997....and the ice-storm of january (?) '98 completely destroyed his 90 acres.

It's a battle mother nature always wins.


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## JOE.G (May 23, 2012)

Oh I am not going to clean up the all of the property, But I do want to be able to walk almost anywhere with out having to climb though a ton of brush. I don't mind wood laying on the floor feeding the other plant life and I don't want to open it up so much that it gets destroyed if there was a wind storm.

When I had it logged we went though and chose trees and laid it out so we could keep it healthy and safe from storm damage.


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## Oldtimer (May 23, 2012)

JOE.G said:


> Oh I am not going to clean up the all of the property, But I do want to be able to walk almost anywhere with out having to climb though a ton of brush. I don't mind wood laying on the floor feeding the other plant life and I don't want to open it up so much that it gets destroyed if there was a wind storm.
> 
> When I had it logged we went though and chose trees and laid it out so we could keep it healthy and safe from storm damage.



In 5 years it'll be no trouble walking...except for the re-gen that should sprout thick.
Good luck, and be safe.


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## OlympicYJ (May 23, 2012)

What is your management goal in the logged area? Are you replanting or leaving it open. Piled slash doesn't help many seedlings grow as the nutrients are concentrated to a very small radius around the pile. Slash piles furthermore limit available planting space if in deed you are planting. Burn the slash if you can. And if you can't I guess your only option is to leave them as I wouldn't go back in and move them, too much cost and you are creating more compaction and erosion problems.

Maybe you could include a picture of the slash piles so there is better understanding of what you've got and better advice can be given.

As everyone said around 5 years scattered slash should be pretty well gone. Piled slash takes more than 5 years to fully decompose. I wouldn't be suprised if it took around 10 years, all dependant upon the pile size.


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## ShaneLogs (May 23, 2012)

Yes pictures would be appreciated  I try to keep my wood lot kinda clean looking. It is a ever going battle though. If I was you and I really wanted to get the slash out of my sight I would take my skid steer with the brush grabber on it and take chunks out of the slash pile and dump it over some ledge or some rocks to smooth out your trail some. A flat trail is a happy trail


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## JOE.G (May 23, 2012)

Ill take a walk one of these days and take pic's, Some areas the stuff is piled and other it is spread out most of it is cut real low so you don't see it unless you look down or walk though it.

I Did take some of the stuff in fill in some water damaged areas and ravines that don't flow much anymore or at all.

My plan is to have a usable happy healthy wood lot.


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## slowp (May 23, 2012)

madhatte said:


> Less disturbance is generally better. Most soils have a limited tolerance for machinery. If the slash is already on the ground and spread out, leave it. If it's already piled, leave it. Burning is OK if you can do it, but check with your local FD first. Air quality is a political time bomb these days, and you may not be able to get approval for burning slash piles. Replant in accordance with local laws.



:msp_thumbup:

I guess I should pack my camera around the valley and take some pictures of what old, unburned slash piles/stump piles look like. They make good trellises for Himalayan Blackberries. The Forest Service leaves a few unburned for rat habitat, too. 

Unless you plan on turning all your acreage into a mud bog four wheeling mecca, I'd leave the slash as is.
It is possible to plant trees through it, we did that here. We don't see much 6 foot deep slash anymore. It is just harder for the tree planters, of which I was one, to plant in the slash. Slash provides nutrients and helps with erosion control, as Oldtimer says. 

This is NOT me.





View attachment 239205


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## H 2 H (May 23, 2012)

I was on the Skagit Watershed Group and Stillaguamish Watershed Group for way to many years

Part of my job was getting in planes and fly over logged off areas up in the upper watershed; between 15 years 25 years we notices alot more slides in the hill here in Washington State specialy on the Stilly

But I'm talking about a bigger area than your talking about thu and on hill sides


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## 2dogs (May 23, 2012)

Joe do you realy want the land to look natural or do you already have a preconceived idea of what natural is? Most people I have dealt with have a snapshot in their mind of what the area in question should look like. You will probably need a county ologist to tell you what plants, trees, animals, etc are actually native the your land and how they are "arranged". At what point of sucession do you want your woods to be? What will be next as the forest evolves? Maybe your forest in its natural state could not be seen through or walked through. Maybe a creek ran through it but does not anymore.

Burning slash piles will kill most of the seeds and micro-organisms if the fire is very hot. You will need to make small piles, lots of work, or reseed after a large fire. Burning hemlock may create a hydrophobic layer in the soil, one that water can't penetrate, soil some soil work may be neccesary at the fire site. If you remove or grind the stumps then you may have to lay down "bug logs". Blasting stumps works great but is hardly practical. 

Post logging sites are rarely ever natural again. Live with that thought and just decide what works best for you. Also, research and try to grasp the concept of biodiversity vs tree farm. Best of luck.


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## 2dogs (May 23, 2012)

slowp said:


> :msp_thumbup:
> 
> I guess I should pack my camera around the valley and take some pictures of what old, unburned slash piles/stump piles look like. They make good trellises for Himalayan Blackberries. The Forest Service leaves a few unburned for rat habitat, too.
> 
> ...



Joe listen to slowp. She knows of what she speaks.

Incidentally the last job I worked on we had to work around the rats and rats' nests. They were protected.


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## JOE.G (May 23, 2012)

I just want it to be usable for the hunting,fishing hiking camping and 4 wheeling I don't want it park like I want the animals to live there and live well, Just would like some of the logging mess to to cleaned up a bit. The ideas and thought have been great so far.


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## slowp (May 23, 2012)

What we did, and I do mean we, is we prepped the logged over area by packing our saws in and lopping up the slash concentrations. She then had the logger walk his loader around and scatter it. But the equipment was still on the property. It was 5 acres and it took us 3 AARP qualified people a day to do, with us straggling in at various times of day, and the same for quitting. One worked most of the day and we other two part timed it. 

You can do the same thing by hand. It's hard work. Cut the slash concentrations up--a foot and a half long is what is put into some of the Forest Service contracts, but you can do whatever is good for you. Then strew it around. Lopped slash will settle down quicker, and be hidden better. It's a good workout too. 

Logging looks messy. The only way to avoid that look would be to helicopter the trees out with limbs attached. That method is a money loser but it would sure be clean. You'd be stuck with a huge slash pile on the landing though.

So, invite your chainsaw crazy buddies over and lop and scatter. If you want your trails clear, you can pile the slash and burn it right in the trail, if your laws are OK for doing that. Handpile. Cut up the pieces to the width you want, make smaller piles--little stuff (fines) on the bottom, bigger diameters on top, let it dry a while, cover it and then burn them when the weather and conditions are safe to do so. A properly covered pile can be burned during the winter. Plastic gets used for the covering here and that isn't very eco-friendly but it does work. 

Depending on how clean of a burn you want, you'll need to walk back through while it burns and chunk the piles. 

Handpiling and burning is done here along the busier roads to make things look nicer. We aren't a very wildfirey place. 

I'm sure other folks have ideas too. Mine are low tech--labor intensive. Do you have children??


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## 2dogs (May 23, 2012)

Joe I think the best plan is to send Patty a round trip ticket for her and TUD. Throw in a six pack of dark beer a bottle of ibuprofen and a bag of dog food and she's good to go. Pay prevailing wage too.

(PS have her make you a Scandahoovian candle while she's there.)


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## slowp (May 23, 2012)

I also need a hot tub and a hot shower and indoor plumbing please. The Used Dog likes tennis balls.


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## tramp bushler (May 24, 2012)

Rent a brush chipper , tow it around with your 4 wheeler and chip the brush . . Whats wrong with burning the hemlock yourself . Trust me almost any wood that is dry burns ALOT better than snowballs . If all you had was white spruce to burn , you would really look forward to burning hemlock .


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## JOE.G (May 24, 2012)

I can Burn it my Self, And I may do that this winter when it is has had a chance to dry and they ground is less likely to spread fire. I may also hop on the quad with some saws and cut the slash a little lower and smaller. ANd Ill give you guys all the food and beer you want to come help and I have plenty of tennis balls.


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## JOE.G (May 28, 2012)

I like the hard wood, trees and that is why I left most of them, I have a lot of Cherry Ash and maple, I do have hickory, ironwood,oak, sicamore, beech, birch and some others, but the first three I mentioned makes up the majority of my Hard wood, I have Hemlock and a few different types of pine also.
I do have a lot of fruit trees also but they are in a different section.

I also opened up some areas to allow lower lying plants to grow, berrie bushes and what not for the animals.


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## ShaneLogs (May 28, 2012)

JOE.G said:


> I can Burn it my Self, And I may do that this winter when it is has had a chance to dry and they ground is less likely to spread fire. I may also hop on the quad with some saws and cut the slash a little lower and smaller. ANd Ill give you guys all the food and beer you want to come help and I have plenty of tennis balls.




Now only if you lived closer! I am in Maine and New York is a haul for me. I would come and help for sure if you were closer! Make sure you take pics of your woodlot if you decided to clean it up a little


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## JOE.G (May 28, 2012)

Yeah I need to get out there and get some pic's, hopefully when I get caught up Ill be able to do that.


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## Customcuts (May 29, 2012)

JOE.G said:


> I bought my current place about two years ago, after gutting the house to the studs and re doing everything I have now moved on to the yard, I have added Chicken coop and some smaller sheds, I am going to add a larger out building this year I hope. I have about three acers that I mow and I have cleared out the wood line near my Lawn and home to make it look clean, Took out trees and lower Branchs and really opened it up so you can see a ways from the porch. The pole Saw I bought has been a real helpful tool. I have a cherry tree that dies in the yard and Ill be dropping that tom. I enjoy a nice clean looking property, Even though many people don't go walking all over my property I enjoy a nice neat woods when I go for my hikes or camping fishing or hunting with my kids.



Sounds like you have a real nice place and a pretty good plan... I'm jealous, my property in a a quarter acre with 4 small trees.....:msp_thumbdn:....lol... Anyhow it sounds like u are on the right track, keep up the good work:msp_thumbup:


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## FSburt (May 29, 2012)

Here is my 2 cents from a fuels officer on the left coast. We usually use a small dozer (D-4 or smaller) with a brush rake and spot pile all the heaviest concentrations of slash for burning. At that point we walk away for the next 20 yrs until the next thinning entry is ready. I agree with one of the other threads though about mother nature always bats last and will not leave this nice and clean look for very long.


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## JOE.G (Jun 6, 2012)

I took a quad ride with my kid's last week, some places look nice others look rough, the log roads are pretty muddy at this time I am guessing with time thatll harden back up.

He took out some pulp wood along with some fire wood, there is still enough wood down to heat a home for the winter I wish I could find someone to come in and get it.


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