# Jony's in the house!



## blsnelling (Sep 21, 2012)

That's right! Mr. Jonsered 2188 arrived at here this evening. I didn't think it was going to show, but Brown Santa finally showed up at almost 7:00 PM this evening. 

I had bought another new 390XP, planning to let it wear the piped and 2-piece head setup. But, before I had a chance to do anything with it, I got to toying with the idea of replacing it with a 2188, just for something different. Lo and behold, someone asked for a new ported 390XP, and the rest is history.

I'll probably never run the topend that's on it. I will be building the bored and replated 56mm topend on this saw, so that I can directly compare it to the stock bored 390XP. When I'm done with that, the plan is to dedicate this saw to the piped setup.


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## Rudolf73 (Sep 21, 2012)

Good looking saw you got there!


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## ELECT6845 (Sep 21, 2012)

Wow very nice. Trade you a nice 395xp for it.


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## ELECT6845 (Sep 21, 2012)

O by the way i saw Dennis browsing this thread so the BS should start at anytime.


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## Rudolf73 (Sep 21, 2012)

ELECT6845 said:


> O by the way i saw Dennis browsing this thread so the BS should start at anytime.


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## woodgrenade (Sep 21, 2012)

Well you posted this 20 minutes ago. Do you have the 56mm topend on it yet?


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## blsnelling (Sep 21, 2012)

woodgrenade said:


> Well you posted this 20 minutes ago. Do you have the 56mm topend on it yet?



Nope. I've got several customer saws to do first.


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## Tzed250 (Sep 21, 2012)

Better looking saw!


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## blsnelling (Sep 21, 2012)

I do prefer the angle of the Husky, but just wanted something different.


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## young (Sep 21, 2012)

time to buy 2171 or 2172 or 2166 or 2165 and 2153. :tongue2:


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## blsnelling (Sep 21, 2012)

young said:


> time to buy 2171 or 2172 or 2166 or 2165 and 2153. :tongue2:



That's crossed my mind, lol. I'll have to see how this handle angle feels.


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## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Sep 21, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> That's crossed my mind, lol. I'll have to see how this handle angle feels.



It will feal fine cause that is one sexy saw. Much nicer than a that other brand you like. I can't even get that even say the name of that orange and white saw. they are only good for trading.


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## WoodChuck'r (Sep 21, 2012)

Santa's Black....??!! :msp_huh:


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## WoodChuck'r (Sep 21, 2012)

Okay. That was inappropriate..... :msp_rolleyes:


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## young (Sep 21, 2012)

WoodChuck'r said:


> Santa's Black....??!! :msp_huh:



quit derailing the thread............

and no, santa is brown, well the truck he drives is. :spam:


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## WoodChuck'r (Sep 21, 2012)

young said:


> quit derailing the thread............




What's that mean.


Please explain. :wink2:


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## the westspartan (Sep 21, 2012)

I wish there was a Jonny version of the 395. I really wish they still made the 2094/2095 saws, but that is still a damn fine looking saw.


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## WoodChuck'r (Sep 21, 2012)

the westspartan said:


> I wish there was a Jonny version of the 395. I really wish they still made the 2094/2095 saws, but that is still a damn fine looking saw.



You whiner!

It's always something isn't it.....You're always complaining!

"My ass is too big." "This water is too dry." "Why is the cat pooping in the sink again?" "I hate it when my clock ends up in the refrigerator!" "There's no Johnny version of the 395." "Who put these chocolate chips in my shoes....!?"


Sheesh d00d you're such a girl!!! Give it up!


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## kwhite1271 (Sep 21, 2012)

Wait, Wait. Oh never mind, thought I saw something special. Turns out it's just a Husky in flashy colors.


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## struggle (Sep 21, 2012)

Is the 2186 any bit near what the 2188 is for performance etc?


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## the westspartan (Sep 22, 2012)

struggle said:


> Is the 2186 any bit near what the 2188 is for performance etc?



It's only two numbers off!!!!!! 


I have never run them side by side and have never owned either model, but I have been told that they are real close. In fact, I have been told that the 86 is actually a little quicker in certain situations (don't remember why or where I heard that, so it may have been imagined, LOL. But I was looking to get a 390xp at one point and seem to remember someone telling me that).


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## Cantdog (Sep 22, 2012)

That's a nice looking saw Brad....I can see why PB has been dying to get his hands on one...

As far as the handle angle is concerned, I have and run saws with both types and truthfully it never enters my mind nor do I take any notice when I pick up a saw or even change from one to another when cutting. Maybe I'm not as precise as some of the experts but I have built right into my left wrist 3-4 degrees of flexibility to allow for such descrepancies....Of course all my first saws were straight handled...Macs, Homlites, Lombard and eventually the Jonsereds...then along came Husky and Stihl with a brand new plan for holding a saw....I think you'll rise to the challenge as long as you have something to hold on to....especially after you zoom that puppy up!!!LOL!!!


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## husqvarnaguy (Sep 22, 2012)

Did you sleep with it?


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## mt.stalker (Sep 22, 2012)

Red is definately very sexy .....


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## dancan (Sep 22, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> That's a nice looking saw Brad....I can see why PB has been dying to get his hands on one...
> 
> As far as the handle angle is concerned, I have and run saws with both types and truthfully it never enters my mind nor do I take any notice when I pick up a saw or even change from one to another when cutting. Maybe I'm not as precise as some of the experts but I have built right into my left wrist 3-4 degrees of flexibility to allow for such descrepancies....Of course all my first saws were straight handled...Macs, Homlites, Lombard and eventually the Jonsereds...then along came Husky and Stihl with a brand new plan for holding a saw....I think you'll rise to the challenge as long as you have something to hold on to....especially after you zoom that puppy up!!!LOL!!!



I'm with Robin on the handle thing , after running a ''few'' gallons of mix through some Huskies , J'reds and Stihl's , I honestly can say that I never noticed or thought about the angle of handle during or at the end of the day .
I suppose that if you were cutting a branch or two and comparing handle vs handle a difference may be noticed but if you're working and thinking about the handle you are concentrating on the wrong thing .


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## dancan (Sep 22, 2012)

BTW , I'll trade you a nice Husky and a buck or two for that J'Red that you wont like :msp_biggrin:


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## hqv (Sep 22, 2012)

I love Jony's, great saw. Santa bring for me too. :rolleyes2:


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## blsnelling (Sep 22, 2012)

Cantdog said:


> That's a nice looking saw Brad....I can see why PB has been dying to get his hands on one...
> 
> As far as the handle angle is concerned, I have and run saws with both types and truthfully it never enters my mind nor do I take any notice when I pick up a saw or even change from one to another when cutting. Maybe I'm not as precise as some of the experts but I have built right into my left wrist 3-4 degrees of flexibility to allow for such descrepancies....Of course all my first saws were straight handled...Macs, Homlites, Lombard and eventually the Jonsereds...then along came Husky and Stihl with a brand new plan for holding a saw....I think you'll rise to the challenge as long as you have something to hold on to....especially after you zoom that puppy up!!!LOL!!!



That might have been me. I've since been able to get the RPMs I want out of the 390.


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## blsnelling (Sep 22, 2012)

struggle said:


> Is the 2186 any bit near what the 2188 is for performance etc?



It's a 385XP. Make sure it's 2005 or newer. Some had bearing issues before that.


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## Fuzly (Sep 22, 2012)

This is going to be interesting and could prompt be to spend money irresponsibly

opcorn:


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## little possum (Sep 22, 2012)

Bout time, I knew I would persuade you to pick one up eventually.. Just like I got SP and Tlandrum runnin Huskys!


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## harrygrey382 (Sep 22, 2012)

Yep Jony's a sexy saws. I can't BELIEVE they've stopped distributing them in this country... I love my Stihls but I'd seriously consider a Jred. Just seen there aren't even any on ebay right now :msp_scared:


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## dancan (Sep 22, 2012)

harrygrey382 said:


> Yep Jony's a sexy saws. I can't BELIEVE they've stopped distributing them in this country... I love my Stihls but I'd seriously consider a Jred. Just seen there aren't even any on ebay right now :msp_scared:



???

http://www.jonsered.com/us/east/chainsaws/cs-2188/


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## dancan (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry harrygrey382 , I didn't see that you were posting from down there .


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## Cantdog (Sep 22, 2012)

dancan said:


> Sorry harrygrey382 , I didn't see that you were posting from down there .



Yeah so watch it......overposter!!! LOL!!!!!


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## blsnelling (Sep 26, 2012)

Today I removed the original topend before ever running it. It will likely be sold. I then had to do a LOT of clearancing to the crankcase and bottom sides of the 2100 piston. Not only is the 2100 piston 1mm larger in diameter, but it's also a full circle piston. I had to clearance all the way around, including lowering the area under the transfer intakes. I also raised the bottom sides of the piston in this area as well. I had to remove .070" all the way around the piston skirts to match the length of the original piston.

The cylinder started out with a 54mm bore from a 385XP. I cut .040" from the squish band and then sent it to US Chrome to be bored out to 56mm, which is 1mm larger than the 2188/390XP topend. I'm using a 2100XP thin ring piston. I had to cut .035" from the crown of the piston. I only made a .005" cleanup pass on the base of the cylinder. With a gasket, squish is .020 and it's making 205 PSI compression. That's likely to come down a little after I go back in to port it and raise the exhaust back up where it would have been stock. I've not yet put a timing wheel on it though. If it doesn't, I'll probably take another .005" off the crown of the piston.

It'll be intereting to see how this one compares to my 390XP that's built to the same way, only using the original 55mm piston and cylinder.

[video=youtube_share;ygjLBdaWKY4]http://youtu.be/ygjLBdaWKY4[/video]

I love the Tsumara bar on it.


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## Arrowhead (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm not crazy about the bar, but that's a darn fine looking saw. :msp_thumbsup:


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## madhatte (Sep 26, 2012)

I wanna run it next!


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## blsnelling (Sep 26, 2012)

madhatte said:


> I wanna run it next!



Honestly, something like this is nerve wrecking. This is the first cylinder I've ever had bored out and replated. I'm running a piston not designed for this saw, requiring lots of mods to make it work. There's no reason there should be a problem, but you never know. I'll be glad after it has a tank of fuel through it!


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## mdavlee (Sep 26, 2012)

That looks good with that bar on there. Hurry up and get some videos with a 42" full comp and 9 pins so you know which one is the strongest.


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## 7hpjim (Sep 26, 2012)

Jonsered 2100 Turbo Super XPX.....YEA BABY!!!!!!:msp_thumbup:


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## blsnelling (Sep 26, 2012)

Jonsered 2193 Lite


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## Anthony_Va. (Sep 26, 2012)

That bar looks like it was made for that saw.Looks awesome.

What length is the bar? My Tsumura is a 32".


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## blsnelling (Sep 26, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> That bar looks like it was made for that saw.Looks awesome.
> 
> What length is the bar? My Tsumura is a 32".



It's a 32", .063, Stihl mount, with a Bailey's adapter.


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## Anthony_Va. (Sep 26, 2012)

Thats what mine is. I'd love to have one in a 28" but all I've seen is the Husky mount .058.


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## Mastermind (Sep 27, 2012)

I've got a new 2188 and a new 390xp here to build. The 2188 is a damn fine looking saw.


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## Chris J. (Sep 27, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Honestly, something like this is nerve wrecking. This is the first cylinder I've ever had bored out and replated. I'm running a piston not designed for this saw, requiring lots of mods to make it work. There's no reason there should be a problem, but you never know. I'll be glad after it has a tank of fuel through it!




You'll do fine, Brad. If you run into problems, you can always ask Dennis Cahoon for help . 
Seriously, I've heard that DC is more than willing to help folks if he likes them.


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## Mastermind (Sep 27, 2012)

Chris J. said:


> You'll do fine, Brad. If you run into problems, you can always ask Dennis Cahoon for help .
> Seriously, *I've heard that DC is more than willing to help folks if he likes them*.



He's a good friend to me.


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## Cbird14 (Sep 27, 2012)

That's a sexy saw. Almost as sexy as the 2171 I'm pickin up this weekend. Along with a 630 super.


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## SawTroll (Sep 27, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Jonsered 2193 Lite



More like 2192? :msp_biggrin:


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## mdavlee (Sep 27, 2012)

The more I look at that saw it will be a shame to put a pipe setup on it and only run it at gtgs. I would buy a $250 ebay beater to put the pipe on and use that puppy every time I cut wood.:msp_thumbsup:

That bar looks brand new still. You use it any yet?


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## 350jeepcj5 (Sep 27, 2012)

*GASP* It's not orange!

Very sexy looking saw still! Cant wait to see the end product!


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## blsnelling (Sep 27, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> The more I look at that saw it will be a shame to put a pipe setup on it and only run it at gtgs. I would buy a $250 ebay beater to put the pipe on and use that puppy every time I cut wood.:msp_thumbsup:
> 
> That bar looks brand new still. You use it any yet?



That could very well happen. With all the clearancing I had to do to install this topend on this saw, it'll probably stay there. I've not used the bar much. I did clean it good before the pic though.


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## tree monkey (Sep 27, 2012)

i'm so very lost here trying to keep track of what you are doing to what.


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## blsnelling (Sep 27, 2012)

You're lost? I know you feel:jester:


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## Cbird14 (Sep 27, 2012)

I'd like to retract my previous statement. I can't stop looking (drooling) at that machine. I want one!!!! Wonder what the wife would do.... Hmmm


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## blsnelling (Sep 27, 2012)

If you buy and sell enough saws, she'll give up trying to keep track, lol.


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## Jim Timber (Sep 27, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> If you buy and sell enough saws, she'll give up trying to keep track, lol.



That's what I did with guns - then she wondered why I needed such a big safe. :msp_scared:

It's not really a safe though, it's more like transient housing.


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## Mastermind (Sep 27, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> If you buy and sell enough saws, she'll give up trying to keep track, lol.



My wife only cares about whether or not the bills are paid.......she very seldom asks what or why. I feel so lucky.


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## parrisw (Sep 28, 2012)

What's the delay Brad.


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## tree monkey (Sep 28, 2012)

parrisw said:


> What's the delay Brad.



i think he's looking at my thread:hmm3grin2orange:


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## parrisw (Sep 28, 2012)

tree monkey said:


> i think he's looking at my thread:hmm3grin2orange:



LOL, ya, trying to figure some things out.


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## Cbird14 (Sep 28, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> If you buy and sell enough saws, she'll give up trying to keep track, lol.



Haha yeah. My safe is already stuffed. And as I'm learning the same goes for saws. Lol u can never have enough!!


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## blsnelling (Sep 28, 2012)

Lol. I'm trying to figure or how to get everything done that needs done around here. I put brakes on my car Wednesday, and sprayed the calipers with black paint. I covered the whole car with overspray I had to clay bar and re-seal every square inch of the car! I told Lisa that I hope my car is NEVER this clean again, lol. It is nice and shiney though


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## Mastermind (Sep 28, 2012)

tree monkey said:


> i think he's looking at my thread:hmm3grin2orange:



I have been. You have a lot of good ideas Scott. It's good to be able to see other ways of doing things. Like the way you use the wooden plugs. I always cut a strip of card stock to gauge the height of my ports.......simple and easy tricks but they both work very well.

Again......thanks for sharing.


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## HEAVY FUEL (Sep 29, 2012)




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## komatsuvarna (Oct 6, 2012)

You gonna have this baby ported before Jeremy's GTG Brad?


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## blsnelling (Oct 7, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> You gonna have this baby ported before Jeremy's GTG Brad?



Yes I am. Matter of fact, I ported it yesterday. It won't be back together and running until tomorrow night though.

Couldn't make them look like this without the CC Specialties right-angle handpiece


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## blsnelling (Oct 7, 2012)

Rather than drop the exhaust port another .100", I took it off the piston. There's still a lot of coverage at the bottom of the exhaust port at TDC. This also sheds some more weight from the piston.






The sides had to be raised in order to clear the case with this full-circle piston.


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## komatsuvarna (Oct 7, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Yes I am. Matter of fact, I ported it yesterday. It won't be back together and running until tomorrow night though.
> 
> Couldn't make them look like this without the CC Specialties right-angle handpiece



Yeah the right angle is the only way to do uppers IMO. I need to get some more burrs for mine thinking of that....

Did the port timing work out good doing the piston swap? I know I've done some measuring before wanting to try a piston swap on other models, sometimes it works out, sometimes one port ends up way out of wack.


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## blsnelling (Oct 7, 2012)

As you might recall, I cut .040" from the squish band, and matched the skirt length to the 390 piston. Here's how it measured before any porting.

Exhaust - 103°
Transfers - 125°
Intake - 75°

I don't have it back together yet to remeasure, but I'm shooting for the following.
Exhaust - 98°
Transfers - 118°
Intake - 85°

Yes, that's a lot of intake duration. However, I found that bought me the RPMs that were missing. I don't care about fuel comsumption. It takes what it takes. I'm after both max RPMs and torque.

Anyone played with ignition timing on a 390? I've not messed with that on either one of mine.


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## parrisw (Oct 7, 2012)

Nice work. 

Wish I had the CC right angle hand piece. However my dental contra will have to do for now. Just can't swing it right now. If I were porting saws for $$$ then ya I'd have one right away.


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Anyone played with ignition timing on a 390? I've not messed with that on either one of mine.



Bump.


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## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Bump.



Yeppers. I have. 

[video=youtube;mop_JLELyp4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mop_JLELyp4&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g&index=3&feature=plcp[/video]

This one is advanced 6*, still starts great.


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## tlandrum (Oct 8, 2012)

its almost a must to advance the timing on the 385/390 if your looking for max gains.


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> Yeppers. I have.
> This one is advanced 6*, still starts great.





tlandrum said:


> its almost a must to advance the timing on the 385/390 if your looking for max gains.


I had heard that comment, but hadn't validated it or tried it myself on that model. Thanks for the replies!


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

I can't wait to get home this evening and get this thing back together. I think I'll leave the ignition alone to start with, just so that I can see what it does when I do advance it.


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## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I can't wait to get home this evening and get this thing back together. I think I'll leave the ignition alone to start with, just so that I can see what it does when I do advance it.



I hope it does better than I think it will with those numbers. :msp_sneaky:


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> I hope it does better than I think it will with those numbers. :msp_sneaky:



Those numbers are actually lower than what's in my 390, and with the same long intake duration. It's a fantastic runner, even without any timing advance. If it doesn't run well, it won't be those numbers. I know of one other person that did this same build, only they used a 395 piston. It was strong, but couldn't get the RPMs out of it he wanted.

BTW, which numbers were you referring too, specifically? Intake?


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## komatsuvarna (Oct 8, 2012)

What kind of RPMs you looking for Brad?


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## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Those numbers are actually lower than what's in my 390, and with the same long intake duration. It's a fantastic runner, even without any timing advance. If it doesn't run well, it won't be those numbers. I know of one other person that did this same build, only they used a 395 piston. It was strong, but couldn't get the RPMs out of it he wanted.
> 
> BTW, which numbers were you referring too, specifically? Intake?



The numbers I was looking at the most were the transfers. The intake won't really hurt anything my being a little too long but if the transfers are too high on a quad port saw like the 390 they start going backward in power *IMHO*.

This 2188 I just finished is at 99, 122, 78. With 6 degrees of advance and 205psi. Torque out the ass.


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

I have staggered transfer ports on my 390, and they're at 18° & 20° of blowdown. It has RPMs and fantastic torque. It's exhaust is higher, at 96°. Compression isn't quite as high on it either. I forget exactly what it is, but I'm thinking maybe 190. I appreciate the feedback.

[video=youtube;iPwhrWGAYOc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPwhrWGAYOc&feature=share&list=UUozS9yJ1nl6HXekd0tV3tRg[/video]


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

These numbers are the result of not being happy with RPMs of the 390. These numbers will give you torque and RPMs in a 390. I'm anxious to see how much more some timing advance will buy me.


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## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> These numbers are the result of not being happy with RPMs of the 390. These numbers will give you torque and RPMs in a 390. I'm anxious to see how much more some timing advance will buy me.



I remember a builder telling me he "over ported" a 390 looking for that rpm. Then figured out the timing advance is what was needed.


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

That's what excites me about this. I'm already getting the RPMs I'm after, without timing advance. That should just be more icing on the cake.


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 8, 2012)

sounds like it pulls pretty good :msp_thumbup:

who got to drop that tree ?


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> sounds like it pulls pretty good :msp_thumbup:



And that's with a buried 36" full-comp RSC chain with aggressive rakers.


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> who got to drop that tree ?


That was one of 7 that I dropped a week ago last Saturday. There was an Oak that was quite a bit bigger.

[video=youtube;CTI8v5qHpik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTI8v5qHpik&feature=share&list=UUozS9yJ1nl6HXekd0tV3tRg[/video]


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 8, 2012)

seems like dropping the bigguns never gets old does it ,big cedars here with lot of branches make a lot of wind coming down


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## mdavlee (Oct 8, 2012)

What kind of rpm are you planning on tuning it to? I've replaced a crank in one that was used around 13.8k and was limbing with it when it came apart.


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

That sounds like a defective crank or bearings to me. My 084 turns more than that, but not in use. I hope to see at least 14K @ WOT, and hopefully 12K in the cut.


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## mdavlee (Oct 8, 2012)

It was used for a month falling timber when it let go. So it had a decent amount of run time on it. Seems there's quite a few of the 385/390s that end up needing cranks if you watch the part saws on ebay sell all the time. I would probably try to run it under 13.5k wot and build for torque.


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## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> That sounds like a defective crank or bearings to me. My 084 turns more than that, but not in use. I hope to see at least 14K @ WOT, and hopefully 12K in the cut.



The one I just built Spike60 easily will hit 14,500 but there's now way in hell I would tune it that fast.


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> It was used for a month falling timber when it let go. So it had a decent amount of run time on it. Seems there's quite a few of the 385/390s that end up needing cranks if you watch the part saws on ebay sell all the time. I would probably try to run it under 13.5k wot and build for torque.


They have known crank bearing issues prior to 2005.


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## parrisw (Oct 8, 2012)

I tune mine to 16k for limbing, are you guys saying thats bad?


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

What kind of compression was that saw running?


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## mdavlee (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> What kind of compression was that saw running?



The one I put a crank in or randys?

The one I put the crank in just had the squish tightened up. Probably 170 at the most.


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## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> The one I put a crank in or randys?
> 
> The one I put the crank in just had the squish tightened up. Probably 170 at the most.



I was referring to the one you put a crank in.


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## mdavlee (Oct 8, 2012)

It was a 2009 or 2010 saw.


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## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

That's one thing I like about the 395XP and most Stihl saws........they don't puke the crank out the exhaust. 

These last two I built are more toys than actual work for a living saws......but I'll still ask the owners to keep them tuned to 13,200.....


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## mdavlee (Oct 8, 2012)

I was just bringing that up for a little information on them. I've heard of more of them losing cranks early like that out west when they get ran 5-6 days a week and 2.5-3 gallons a day. I know the best running one I've ever ran was only turning 13k.

A 395 might strip every bolt on it but the crank will hold up and the oiler will sling oil like nothing else.


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## Boleclimber (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> That was one of 7 that I dropped a week ago last Saturday. There was an Oak that was quite a bit bigger.
> 
> [video=youtube;CTI8v5qHpik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTI8v5qHpik&feature=share&list=UUozS9yJ1nl6HXekd0tV3tRg[/video]



This was the most dangerous video of tree felling that I have watched in a long time. I may have to forward the link to the local high school vocational forestry program for what not to do.


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## parrisw (Oct 8, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> I was just bringing that up for a little information on them. I've heard of more of them losing cranks early like that out west when they get ran 5-6 days a week and 2.5-3 gallons a day. I know the best running one I've ever ran was only turning 13k.
> 
> A 395 might strip every bolt on it but the crank will hold up and the oiler will sling oil like nothing else.



I think allot depends on how it's tuned and ran, I've had fallers out here personally tell me that you can lean husky's out as much as you want. So if you got it tuned to the ragged edge, and got the throttle pinned limbing, I don't blame the crank giving up.


----------



## KUBOTA OWNER (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> If you buy and sell enough saws, she'll give up trying to keep track, lol.



"MAN" I just figured it out,--- "You buy and sell saws" I only buy..---Now I have my cad figured!!:hmm3grin2orange:
Now i have to work on selling some saws, I do give some away but only the poulan's --- love that saw, If I owned it my 10 acres
would be a parking lot.


----------



## bryanr2 (Oct 8, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> The numbers I was looking at the most were the transfers. The intake won't really hurt anything my being a little too long but if the transfers are too high on a quad port saw like the 390 they start going backward in power *IMHO*.
> 
> This 2188 I just finished is at 99, 122, 78. With 6 degrees of advance and 205psi. Torque out the ass.



pictures or it idnt happen........ on second thought- since it's you....... video or it didnt happen


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

She's back together and running great. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no wood here to run it in. After warming it up good, it would hit 14,100, but would be best tuned to 13,600-13,800. I then advanced the ignition 6°. That bought me another 300 RPMs. I saw it hit 14,400. It 4-strokes nicely at 14,000. I'll have to see where it ends up once I get it in some big wood.

Compression is now 198 after raising the exhaust, which ended up at 100° exactly. The transfers are staggered at about 119-121. The intake is at exactly 85.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

bryanr2 said:


> pictures or it idnt happen........ on second thought- since it's you....... video or it didnt happen



I'll be doing a thread on it...... :msp_thumbup:


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

Boleclimber said:


> This was the most dangerous video of tree felling that I have watched in a long time. I may have to forward the link to the local high school vocational forestry program for what not to do.



Criticism without valuable input is just that, criticism. Care to share what was done wrong and how it should have been done? I appreciate constructive criticism.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> She's back together and running great. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no wood here to run it in. After warming it up good, it would hit 14,100, but would be best tuned to 13,600-13,800. I then advanced the ignition 6°. That bought me another 300 RPMs. I saw it hit 14,400. It 4-strokes nicely at 14,000. I'll have to see where it ends up once I get it in some big wood.
> 
> Compression is now 198 after raising the exhaust, which ended up at 100° exactly. The transfers are staggered at about 119-121. The intake is at exactly 85.



That's gonna be a runner.


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

It very well may end up well below 14K for a work tune. When building a saw, I like to see how I might tune it for cutting 10" Poplar cants (read, leaner tune), and thena significantly richer tune for work. When using as saw for straigth up work, I want it rich enough that I don't have to worry about it. The 390 was tuned nicely in the vids I did a couple weeks ago, but I don't even know what it was tuned to. All I cared about was that it always had a little 4-stroke when I let up in the cut. 

I value everyones input, even when I might go a little different direction. It helps build a set of checks and balances and helps you think it out better.


----------



## madhatte (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Criticism without valuable input is just that, criticism. Care to share what was done wrong and how it should have been done? I appreciate constructive criticism.



Just watched the vid with an eye toward the same. I can offer these bits of advice. First -- I know you've heard this from me before -- LOOK UP! I know you know where the tree's gonna go, but you don't always know what's gonna bonk you from above. Good on ya for wearing a helmet but dammit, LOOK UP! You need that 3-D knowledge. Second -- as soon as you are more than bar width in, slap two wedges in. Snug one up against setback, and let the other hang loose as a bobber. It'll tell you plenty. I learned that trick from one of the best (you know who you are). Third -- I like that walk-back-around trick to score a line for reference. I've always done it from where I want to finish to where I want to start; seeing you do it in the reverse order tells me that I can save a trip around the stump. A line is just a line. Thanks for that. 

As far as "dangerous"? This is a very controlled and well-planned fall. I could easily find dozens of examples of bad falling on YouTube. This isn't one of them. Good work, Brad.


----------



## albert (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> And that's with a buried 36" full-comp RSC chain with aggressive rakers.



What do you call aggresive rakers?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> It very well may end up well below 14K for a work tune. When building a saw, I like to see how I might tune it for cutting 10" Poplar cants (read, leaner tune), and thena significantly richer tune for work. When using as saw for straigth up work, I want it rich enough that I don't have to worry about it. The 390 was tuned nicely in the vids I did a couple weeks ago, but I don't even know what it was tuned to. All I cared about was that it always had a little 4-stroke when I let up in the cut.
> 
> *I value everyones input, even when I might go a little different direction. It helps build a set of checks and balances and helps you think it out better.*



I feel the same way Brad. A lot of guys on here might take our back and forth as something other than what it is........two guys sharing info gained from our experiences. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 8, 2012)

I'll definately be advancing the ignition on my 390XP now. I advance most Stihls, but just hadn't gotten around to messing with the 390 yet.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'll definately be advancing the ignition on my 390XP now. I advance most Stihls, but just hadn't gotten around to messing with the 390 yet.



Stihl's need all the advancing they can get, to keep up with them Husky's.


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 9, 2012)

I'll be bringing both of these saws to the Poulan Lovers GTG this weekend. They probably won't see wood until then.


----------



## wigglesworth (Oct 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I hope to see at least 14K @ WOT, and hopefully 12K in the cut.



I'm following ya on the 12k in wood, but u lost me at 14K out of wood...??

If it turns 12K out of wood, and 12k in wood, that's more of an achievement to me than 2k lost...:dunno:

I'm anxious to see it run though.


----------



## wigglesworth (Oct 9, 2012)

Man, I killed this thread....

Wheres the vid brad??


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Man, I killed this thread....
> 
> Wheres the vid brad??



2188......mild, not wild. 

[video=youtube;EegcJ8ePXaY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EegcJ8ePXaY&feature=plcp[/video]


----------



## mdavlee (Oct 9, 2012)

Very nice randy. That's got to be the best looking 90 cc saw out there.


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 9, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Man, I killed this thread....
> 
> Wheres the vid brad??



I have no wood here, and no where convenient to cut right now. It probably won't see wood until the GTG on Saturday.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> 2188......mild, not wild.



Good to see you wearing pants Randy! :hmm3grin2orange:

What kind of wood is that? Balsa wood?


----------



## bryanr2 (Oct 9, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> Very nice randy. That's *is* the best looking 90 cc saw out there.




fixed it for ya


----------



## bryanr2 (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> 2188......mild, not wild.
> 
> [video=youtube;EegcJ8ePXaY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EegcJ8ePXaY&feature=plcp[/video]


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Good to see you wearing pants Randy! :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> What kind of wood is that? Balsa wood?



That's poplar.......a semi hard wood.


----------



## Joe Kidd (Oct 9, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Good to see you wearing pants Randy! :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> What kind of wood is that? Balsa wood?



Cork.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

Joe Kidd said:


> Cork.



:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## wigglesworth (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> That's poplar.......a semi hard wood.



Thats not poplar, this is poplar (in my best crocidile dundee voice...)

[video=youtube;AbGxtlQQ2bk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbGxtlQQ2bk&list=UUvEG38T8e7zTVuj5qqvYPQQ&index=2&feature=plcp[/video]


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> That's poplar.......a semi hard wood.



LOL, who you trying to fool, Poplar aint semi hard wood. That chit will rot standing.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Thats not poplar, this is poplar (in my best crocidile dundee voice...)
> 
> [video=youtube;AbGxtlQQ2bk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbGxtlQQ2bk&list=UUvEG38T8e7zTVuj5qqvYPQQ&index=2&feature=plcp[/video]



That's a bad ass 365.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Thats not poplar, this is poplar (in my best crocidile dundee voice...)
> 
> [video=youtube;AbGxtlQQ2bk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbGxtlQQ2bk&list=UUvEG38T8e7zTVuj5qqvYPQQ&index=2&feature=plcp[/video]



No, that's not Poplar, that was a loaf of Stale Bread.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

parrisw said:


> LOL, who you trying to fool, Poplar aint semi hard wood. That chit will rot standing.



Well it ain't as soft as that ####ing fir y'all got up there in Canduckistan. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Joe Kidd (Oct 9, 2012)

parrisw said:


> LOL, who you trying to fool, Poplar aint semi hard wood. That chit will rot standing.



LOL, Maybe he's describing a personal problem. Just sayin'. :msp_ohmy:


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> Well it ain't as soft as that ####ing fir y'all got up there in Canduckistan. :hmm3grin2orange:



Hey now. "I have a potty mouth", I dare you to come out here and try to cut it with you're pretend saws.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

Joe Kidd said:


> LOL, Maybe he's describing a personal problem. Just sayin'. :msp_ohmy:



That thought crossed my mind, however I did not go there. Semi hard? I call that a fatty fatty side pipe.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> Well it ain't as soft as that ####ing fir y'all got up there in Canduckistan. :hmm3grin2orange:



Oh, BTW, you ####ing spelled it wrong, Canuckistan.


----------



## madhatte (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> Well it ain't as soft as that ####ing fir y'all got up there in Canduckistan. :hmm3grin2orange:



True Firs are, true, pretty soft. Douglas-Fir, on the other hand, is neither a true fir nor soft. I've cut some that was hard enough to throw sparks, and some that, even clean, leaves chains wanting touched up every hour or so. The further inland you go, the harder the wood, though even coastal DF is a fair piece harder than popple.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Hey now. "I have a potty mouth", I dare you to come out here and try to cut it with you're pretend saws.



You used You're wrong there Will. If you're gonna give me #### you gotta get YOUR #### together first.

"Pretend" saws. 







:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

madhatte said:


> True Firs are, true, pretty soft. Douglas-Fir, on the other hand, is neither a true fir nor soft. I've cut some that was hard enough to throw sparks, and some that, even clean, leaves chains wanting touched up every hour or so. The further inland you go, the harder the wood, though even coastal DF is a fair piece harder than popple.



You ain't making this easy ya know. :msp_mad:


----------



## wigglesworth (Oct 9, 2012)

parrisw said:


> No, that's not Poplar, that was a loaf of Stale Bread.



At least it was Wheat.....EH??


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

madhatte said:


> True Firs are, true, pretty soft. Douglas-Fir, on the other hand, is neither a true fir nor soft. I've cut some that was hard enough to throw sparks, and some that, even clean, leaves chains wanting touched up every hour or so. The further inland you go, the harder the wood, though even coastal DF is a fair piece harder than popple.



Yup, not many people understand. Coastal Doug Fir is tough Chit, the very strong wind storms we get here, make the trees harder then a Mfer.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> At least it was Wheat.....EH??



Ya, them rolled oats are some hard stuff.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

mastermind © said:


> you used you're wrong there will. If you're gonna give me #### you gotta get your #### together first.
> 
> "pretend" saws.
> 
> ...



lol, pui.


----------



## wigglesworth (Oct 9, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Ya, them rolled oats are some hard stuff.



Quaker oats, dangit....

Wilfred says get it right, or pay the price, silly canuck.... :mad2:


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Quaker oats, dangit....
> 
> Wilfred says get it right, or pay the price, silly canuck.... :mad2:



LOL. Yep, I'm silly, them Oats are serious business.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

See what happens Brad when you don't post vids of ported bored out saws. Dont' make this mistake again.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

[video=youtube;v8014Ywm9YQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8014Ywm9YQ[/video]


----------



## Tzed250 (Oct 9, 2012)

Wilford is the shizzle!

[video=youtube;DLDxWH0meJM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLDxWH0meJM&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]


----------



## madhatte (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> You ain't making this easy ya know. :msp_mad:



Just sayin'!

winkwinkwink


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

madhatte said:


> Just sayin'!
> 
> winkwinkwink



Repped!!!!


----------



## cowroy (Oct 9, 2012)

I just thought I wanted one of the new Stihl MS461 saws until I was in the good dealer I have close by the other day and a brand new Husky 390xp can be had for $50 more than the Stihl. They might even wiggle a little bit on the Husky I'm not real sure.


----------



## bryanr2 (Oct 10, 2012)

what's a 461?otstir: 390 all the way!


----------



## mdavlee (Oct 10, 2012)

390>461 :screwy:


----------



## StihlKiwi (Oct 10, 2012)

Boleclimber said:


> This was the most dangerous video of tree felling that I have watched in a long time. I may have to forward the link to the local high school vocational forestry program for what not to do.



Care to elaborate? Brad didn't appear to watch the top much and they guy in the yellow shirt wandered around a bit but to me it looked pretty good.

If you want to see dangerous falling, try Youtube - theres a few dodgy fallers on there


----------



## Officer's Match (Oct 10, 2012)

cowroy said:


> I just thought I wanted one of the new Stihl MS461 saws until I was in the good dealer I have close by the other day and a brand new Husky 390xp can be had for $50 more than the Stihl. They might even wiggle a little bit on the Husky I'm not real sure.



I think that 390XP's can be bought significantly cheaper than 461's (currently).


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 10, 2012)

Officer's Match said:


> I think that 390XP's can be bought significantly cheaper than 461's (currently).



Yes, like $875 PHO.


----------



## ChipMonger (Oct 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Yes, like $875 PHO.




Substantial savings right there. I wonder how Stihl is coming up with and justifying that price...Maybe because they like to "Stihl from you blind" lol


----------



## young (Oct 10, 2012)

ChipMonger said:


> Substantial savings right there. I wonder how Stihl is coming up with and justifying that price...Maybe because they like to "Stihl from you blind" lol



well thats a great price thats not list price from a great dealer not trying to make all their money on one saw.

list vs list, its about the same price.


----------



## Officer's Match (Oct 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Yes, like $875 PHO.



Anxiously awaiting a Stihl-to-Husky bar adaptor so I can try my new baby out.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Yes, like $875 PHO.



i paid $914 for my wrap 461 not a huge difference


----------



## ChipMonger (Oct 10, 2012)

young said:


> well thats a great price thats not list price from a great dealer not trying to make all their money on one saw.
> 
> list vs list, its about the same price.



Understood. I couldnt find the 461 on Stihls website, only the 460, so, that being said, personally i wouldnt pay more or close to the price of a 390 for a saw with 11.4cc's less displacement. Now, maybe thats splitting hairs, but i have a problem with paying more for less. Just my .02.


----------



## Officer's Match (Oct 10, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> i paid $914 for my wrap 461 not a huge difference



That sounds like a good price given the MSRP, but the 390 _is_ more saw.

ETA: CM beat me to it.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 10, 2012)

Officer's Match said:


> That sounds like a good price given the MSRP, but the 390 _is_ more saw.
> 
> ETA: CM beat me to it.



my price was for powerhead only ,im not sure if all shops will sell without bar and chain


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 10, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> my price was for powerhead only ,im not sure if all shops will sell without bar and chain



My Stihl dealer will not.


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Oct 10, 2012)

I was at a rather small "box" store yesterday, far from what I call a knowledgeable dealer. 

Jred 2188 w/ 20in b/c $920
Stihl ms440 w/20in b/c $1039
Stihl ms461- A what???

The 2188 & 440 were on the shelfs with the price tags on them.


----------



## Officer's Match (Oct 10, 2012)

HEAVY FUEL said:


> I was at a rather small "box" store yesterday, far from what I call a knowledgeable dealer.
> 
> Jred 2188 w/ 20in b/c $920
> Stihl ms440 w/20in b/c $1039
> ...



Wow! That's just nutz.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 10, 2012)

HEAVY FUEL said:


> I was at a rather small "box" store yesterday, far from what I call a knowledgeable dealer.
> 
> Jred 2188 w/ 20in b/c $920
> Stihl ms440 w/20in b/c $1039
> Stihl ms461- A what???



a few weeks ago my dealer didnt know they were availible till i asked them to order me one ,werent in the system yet ,they called west coast stihl and were availible ,seems like arborsite gets info before the dealers do , i live in a town that revolves around logging ,so they move a lot of saws ,am sure real soon the 461 saws will be out in the woods here replacing the 460 saws as they wear out


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Oct 10, 2012)

Officer's Match said:


> Wow! That's just nutz.



Yeah!!! That was my first thought too! Who puts a 20 inch bar on a 2188??? Lol..


----------



## mdavlee (Oct 10, 2012)

I would buy a 2188 with a 20" for that price easily before a 440 for over a grand. Stihl marketing at its best there. Buy it because it says stihl:thumbdown:


----------



## Boleclimber (Oct 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Criticism without valuable input is just that, criticism. Care to share what was done wrong and how it should have been done? I appreciate constructive criticism.



The use of a ladder to climb into a tree is a large no no for tree work. People are injured or killed in the United States every year using ladders to climb trees. The gentleman carrying the wedges is running around the work area with no apparent direction. The same man then decides to walk in the direction the tree is to fall. Where he goes is not clear but he clearly enter the drop zone as the back cut was executed. The sawyer is so intent on felling the tree he appears to be unknowing this mans presence. 

The trees large diameter and slight breeze that day add to the complexity of the issue. Had you misread the weight of that crown, or soundness of the hinge, you could have easily lost the power lines and perimeter buildings. A single rope would not have held the tree from turning left or right. 

Edit: What should have been done- An experienced climber to remove top weight in a controlled fashion and a ground man to keep the area clear of on lookers. 

I am not shooting form the hip on this; I am writing form tree removal experience. 

Drop enough trees and you will understand what I am saying. If you would like to test my analysis, put the video in the arborist section and ask for critique.


----------



## Boleclimber (Oct 10, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> Care to elaborate? Brad didn't appear to watch the top much and they guy in the yellow shirt wandered around a bit but to me it looked pretty good.
> 
> If you want to see dangerous falling, try Youtube - theres a few dodgy fallers on there



I have watched many youtube videos that make me cringe. I will be adding this one to the mix. I will say the saw was adequately sized and the feller was wearing proper safety gear. This is where the positives end.


----------



## Joe Kidd (Oct 10, 2012)

Boleclimber said:


> I have watched many youtube videos that make me cringe. I will be adding this one to the mix. I will say the saw was adequately sized and the feller was wearing proper safety gear. This is where the positives end.



I think we get your point....:taped:


----------



## Andyshine77 (Oct 10, 2012)

Boleclimber said:


> The trees large diameter and slight breeze that day add to the complexity of the issue. Had you misread the weight of that crown, or soundness of the hinge, you could have easily lost the power lines and perimeter buildings. A single rope would not have held the tree from turning left or right.



So what are you really trying to say here? felling is never an option? Sorry I've heard this before from climbers, felling doesn't bring in the same $$$ as climbing a tree and removing the top does.

There is nothing wrong with climbing a ladder and setting a rope. Sure ladders are dangerous, but I'd like to see you paint your house from a harness. The dangers were known, the rope was there only to help pull the tree over nothing else.


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 10, 2012)

This work was all done for free for my church conference's campgrounds. I *safely *saved them many thousands of dollars. The only thing a climber would have done, would have been to make a lot of money. There was plenty of lean to drop that Oak without a rope. It was only used for added insurance. I'm not saying that we did everything perfectly, but it certainly wasn't as you're trying to make it out to be. There ARE jobs were a climber is the ONLY way. This was not one of those.


----------



## Boleclimber (Oct 10, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> So what are you really trying to say here? felling is never an option? Sorry I've heard this before from climbers, felling doesn't bring in the same $$$ as climbing a tree and removing the top does.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with climbing a ladder and setting a rope. Sure ladders are dangerous, but I'd like to see you paint your house from a harness. The dangers were known, the rope was there only to help pull the tree over nothing else.



Felling is always an option. I certainly didn't say felling was not an option. There is a time and a place for felling. Every faller knows trees do not always fall the intended place. There are hidden tension, weakness and weight to be accounted for. 

Houses have flat walls and do not move from wind action. When painting a house with significant heights, width extenders can added to ladders making them safer. 

Arguing over the appropriate risk of taking the tree down is really mute. He did successfully drop the tree in the intended drop zone with no injury or property destruction. I once drove a motorcycle at 135 MPH on a public highway and lived to tell. Because I did not crash does not mean my decisions were wise or warranted. Point being that tree is a high risk tree. Dropping it successfully doesn't mean it was the best or worst decision.


----------



## Boleclimber (Oct 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> This work was all done for free for my church conference's campgrounds. I *safely *saved them many thousands of dollars. The only thing a climber would have done, would have been to make a lot of money. There was plenty of lean to drop that Oak without a rope. It was only used for added insurance. I'm not saying that we did everything perfectly, but it certainly wasn't as you're trying to make it out to be. There ARE jobs were a climber is the ONLY way. This was not one of those.



I suggest buying some climbing gear and learning to use it. The adrenaline rush and workout you will receive is like no other. You can still save family, friends and churches money.


----------



## Boleclimber (Oct 10, 2012)

Lets get back to chainsaws. That is enough tree talk for today.


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 10, 2012)

Boleclimber said:


> I suggest buying some climbing gear and learning to use it. The adrenaline rush and workout you will receive is like no other. You can still save family, friends and churches money.



Thanks for the cordial replies. I feared that this might turn south in a hurry. To be quite honest, I'm not at all fond of heights. You didn't see me up that ladder did you, lol. I'd probably love it once I got used to it, but I'll leave that to you guys that are good at what you do.


----------



## FATGUY (Oct 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks for the cordial replies. I feared that this might turn south in a hurry. To be quite honest, I'm not at all fond of heights. You didn't see me up that ladder did you, lol. I'd probably love it once I got used to it, but I'll leave that to you guys that are good at what you do.



I'll do your climbing for ya Brad:msp_biggrin:


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 10, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I'll do your climbing for ya Brad:msp_biggrin:



And I'd PAY to see that:biggrin:


----------



## Andyshine77 (Oct 10, 2012)

Boleclimber said:


> I suggest buying some climbing gear and learning to use it. The adrenaline rush and workout you will receive is like no other. You can still save family, friends and churches money.



Wouldn't that be even more dangerous without years of proper hands on training? Sorry even with all the appropriate training, climbing a tree, bouncing around from limb to limb with a chainsaw can't be any safer. Branches can be rotten, equipment can fail and so on. Tree work has it's inherent risks you can't get around that fact.


----------



## FATGUY (Oct 10, 2012)

tree better not be hollow.....


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 10, 2012)

Just about everything related to tree work is a calculated risk:msp_scared:


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 10, 2012)

Nik, I'm LOLing down here in the basement by myself


----------



## FATGUY (Oct 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Nik, I'm LOLing down here in the basement by myself



is that what you call that?


----------



## Andyshine77 (Oct 10, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> tree better not be hollow.....



So you're saying it better be HARD WOOD before you climb on.


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## FATGUY (Oct 10, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> So you're saying it better be HARD WOOD before you climb on.



that's right baby!:yoyo:


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## Boleclimber (Oct 10, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> Wouldn't that be even more dangerous without years of proper hands on training? Sorry even with all the appropriate training, climbing a tree, bouncing around from limb to limb with a chainsaw can't be any safer. Branches can be rotten, equipment can fail and so on. Tree work has it's inherent risks you can't get around that fact.



There are books he can read. Something tells me he wouldn't make a good student. Comes across a little hard headed and all knowing.


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## blsnelling (Oct 10, 2012)

Boleclimber said:


> Comes across a little hard headed and all knowing.



Hey, I resemble that remark! If I didn't have a hard head, I might be more than branded with an "H" in my scalp, lol.


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 10, 2012)

Boleclimber said:


> There are books he can read. Something tells me he wouldn't make a good student. Comes across a little hard headed and all knowing.



LOL. 

With that said reading and applying what you've read are two separate things. One improperly tied knot and it's all over. Are you really a climber? I don't know of any climber that would suggest what you did.


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## Officer's Match (Oct 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Hey, I resemble that remark! If I didn't have a hard head, I might be more than branded with an "H" in my scalp, lol.



Ah HAH! You admitted it! :msp_sneaky:


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## Boleclimber (Oct 10, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> LOL.
> 
> With that said reading and applying what you've read are two separate things. One improperly tied knot and it's all over. Are you really a climber? I don't know of any climber that would suggest what you did.



I learned basic climbing in vocational school and learned more advanced techniques from reading. Historically I climbed more than I now do. Climbing isn't rocket science and neither are the knots. 

There are many users of this site capable of educating themselves on how to use climbing gear from reading books. They surely aren't going to be topping trees on their first time out. Over time they will become comfortable and capable with the equipment.


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## KenJax Tree (Oct 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks for the cordial replies. I feared that this might turn south in a hurry. To be quite honest, I'm not at all fond of heights. You didn't see me up that ladder did you, lol. I'd probably love it once I got used to it, but I'll leave that to you guys that are good at what you do.



Im not afraid of heights at all and you wouldn't have saw me up that ladder lol


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## parrisw (Oct 10, 2012)

I've used a ladder many times to get into a tree, I really fail to see how that is dangerous, however doing tree work from a ladder is very dangerous, I once fell off a ladder putting Christmas lights up, well, the ladder slid off the roof with me on it, so I didn't really fall from the ladder just rode it all the way down from 20' up, ya, I crapped myself, that was the only damage.


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## Mastermind (Oct 10, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> Im not afraid of heights at all and you wouldn't have saw me up that ladder lol



I built big tall houses most of my life......not at all scared of heights. I am scared of ladders though.


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## Boleclimber (Oct 10, 2012)

There is a way around climbing it is called a big shot. I own one and use it often. 

Bailey's - Big Shot Throw Weight Launcher


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## Tzed250 (Oct 11, 2012)

Brad did OK, he is learning. Sometimes Brad has to learn the hard way though . I tought myself how to climb and in some situations it is the only way. The tree in my back yard was a good example: #




bt4 by zweitakt250, on Flickr




bt5 by zweitakt250, on Flickr

But many trees don't need to be climbed. I figured this out early when I owned my tree service. I took the GOL classes to learn precision falling and then had an advantage over the other tree services in my area. I have dropped trees right next to $300K houses and never put a mark on them. To this day, knock on wood, the worst injury I've had from running saws was a pea sized nick in my calf from carrying a saw while wearing shorts.#


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## dozerdan (Oct 12, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> its almost a must to advance the timing on the 385/390 if your looking for max gains.



I think a birdy called you and told you that. LOL

Later
Dan


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## madhatte (Oct 12, 2012)

Boleclimber said:


> What should have been done- An experienced climber to remove top weight in a controlled fashion and a ground man to keep the area clear of on lookers.



Ah, Arborists. Always doing things the hard way. That is, ALWAYS doing things the hard way, even when it's not necessary.


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## KenJax Tree (Oct 12, 2012)

madhatte said:


> Ah, Arborists. Always doing things the hard way. That is, ALWAYS doing things the hard way, even when it's not necessary.



Not me if i have a good landing zone im not climbing anything. I would've dropped just like Brad did, time is money.


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## komatsuvarna (Oct 14, 2012)

Any vids of this thing yet?!?!?


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## blsnelling (Oct 14, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> Any vids of this thing yet?!?!?



Right here

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/183566-58.htm#post3889795


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## mdavlee (Oct 15, 2012)

They both look good. You think it was worth all you did to the 2188 to be just ahead of the 390? I think the 2188 sounds better in that big log pulling the longer bar.


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## parrisw (Oct 15, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> They both look good. You think it was worth all you did to the 2188 to be just ahead of the 390? I think the 2188 sounds better in that big log pulling the longer bar.



IMHO, the money invested wasn't worth the fractions of gains that it MIGHT have. I still think the 390 looked better, but vids can be deceiving with how they sound and all.


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

I only have about $200 in this build. I can likely sell the never startedtopend that came off of it for that much. As long as it makes as much power as the 390, I'm calling it successful. It was a fun project. Would I recommend this to someone just wanting a strong 390? No. The OEM topend is just as capable.


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## parrisw (Oct 15, 2012)

I'd like to see a 385 go head to head with those saws.


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## Officer's Match (Oct 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I only have about $200 in this build. I can likely sell the never startedtopend that came off of it for that much. As long as it makes as much power as the 390, I'm calling it successful. It was a fun project. Would I recommend this to someone just wanting a strong 390? No. The OEM topend is just as capable.



I for one love that you're R&Ding for us all Brad.  This benefits us all. I may have missed it, but what did the Jonny end up blowing (compression)?


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## mdavlee (Oct 15, 2012)

I knew the money wasn't high but the sending the cylinder out for boring and plating and grinding on the case to get it to work was a longer process than a woods port.


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

officer's match said:


> i may have missed it, but what did the jonny end up blowing (compression)?



198 psi


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> I knew the money wasn't high but the sending the cylinder out for boring and plating and grinding on the case to get it to work was a longer process than a woods port.



You're absolutely right. There's little to no return on investment from that viewpoint. I would never offer this as a viable option to a paying customer.


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## jropo (Oct 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> You're absolutely right. There's little to no return on investment from that viewpoint. I would never offer this as a viable option to a paying customer.



Yeah but it made an interesting read.
Something that has not been done to a saw before.
It was worth a shot, and you never know unless you try.
It shows me and others that you enjoy this sort of thing and always tring to innovate.

You just need to punch it out some more!


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

I can't take credit for originally. I know that at least one was done with a 395 piston, who also suggested (and donated) the 2100 piston.


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## Officer's Match (Oct 15, 2012)

Might be fun to see what (if any) effect if you swapped carbs with the (1mm larger) 390.


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## Rokon (Oct 15, 2012)

Boleclimber said:


> The use of a ladder to climb into a tree is a large no no for tree work. People are injured or killed in the United States every year using ladders to climb trees. The gentleman carrying the wedges is running around the work area with no apparent direction. The same man then decides to walk in the direction the tree is to fall. Where he goes is not clear but he clearly enter the drop zone as the back cut was executed. The sawyer is so intent on felling the tree he appears to be unknowing this mans presence.
> 
> The trees large diameter and slight breeze that day add to the complexity of the issue. Had you misread the weight of that crown, or soundness of the hinge, you could have easily lost the power lines and perimeter buildings. A single rope would not have held the tree from turning left or right.
> 
> ...




Wow. Protect me from myself. I get tired of "Safety Nazi's" that must apply their vast knowledge when NOT asked. 

Use more ropes, don't use a ladder, ground man keep area clear, blah, blah, blah. At this rate it would take two weeks to drop a fern. Personally I hate the 'arborist section' when it turns into a competion on who's method is best. Or who is not being 100% safe, by today's standards.

When the chainsaws come out, put away the skirts and high heels, your on your own. Including any onlookers who have no common sense or like to stare at the sun out of boredom. Get hit with a branch or a tree tell a friend. Maybe your friend will learn from your experience. People should care for their own safety or they deserve to be consumed. The animal kingdom gets it. Safety is important, but when do we start work???

Can we get back to making noise and throwing chips? I thought this was the chainsaw forum :msp_sneaky:


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## Mastermind (Oct 15, 2012)

Well Brad, I for one think this has been a damn cool build. I enjoy thinking "outside the norm". 


I do think it would be better with less intake though.


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## mdavlee (Oct 15, 2012)

It was interesting to see. Wonder how it stacks up against a 395?


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

Officer's Match said:


> Might be fun to see what (if any) effect if you swapped carbs with the (1mm larger) 390.



It's getting a bored out HS-296A this week I also have a HS-298A I might try.


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> It was interesting to see. Wonder how it stacks up against a 395?



Hopefully there'll be one at Wiggs.


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## komatsuvarna (Oct 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Hopefully there'll be one at Wiggs.



One for sure, and Rolltides should be stronger than mine......so probably 2 :msp_biggrin:.

Im interested to see myself honestly, either way.


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## mtrees (Oct 15, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> One for sure, and Rolltides should be stronger than mine......so probably 2 :msp_biggrin:.
> 
> Im interested to see myself honestly, either way.



I can bring mine also any thoughts on how my 395 would stack?? Being that you built and ran them both


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm ready to go down swinging, lol:biggrin:


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## komatsuvarna (Oct 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'm ready to go down swinging, lol:biggrin:



LOL, I'd say wood size will play a big factor. That 390 sounds like its turning at least 1000-1500 more RPMs. We shall see :sword:


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> LOL, I'd say wood size will play a big factor. That 390 sounds like its turning at least 1000-1500 more RPMs. We shall see :sword:



There's nothing better than friendly competition, even when I loose Winning is just a bonus.


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## komatsuvarna (Oct 15, 2012)

mtrees said:


> I can bring mine also any thoughts on how my 395 would stack?? * Being that you built and ran them both:-*)



Well I just built mine, Rolltide's is Mastermind 395. Actually I think mine is the only ported 395 I've ever ran that I can think of...


My saws are trained to loose, so I doubt you have anything to worry about here Brad .


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## mtrees (Oct 15, 2012)

Brad just did my 395 I am interested to see where he thinks it stacks compared to his 2?? I'm probably gonna get a 390 this week when I get back from Erie (Steelhead).


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

I've got a carb bored, jet drilled, and ready to bolt on. Pretty cool putting the lathe to good use again.


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## parrisw (Oct 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I've got a carb bored, jet drilled, and ready to bolt on. Pretty cool putting the lathe to good use again.



Why don't you show what you did? I'd like to see, I've never bored a carb before. Are you just boring the venturi? And leaving everything else alone?


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

I was too busy working, lol. Yes, I only opened up the venturi. One carb is 19.0mm and the other 18.8mm.


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## parrisw (Oct 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I was too busy working, lol. Yes, I only opened up the venturi. One carb is 19.0mm and the other 18.8mm.



Do you press the main jet out first? It stick into the bore allot, or do you just bore up to it.


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

Oh no. The entire carb gets taken apart. The main nozzle is tapped out, into the bore. Both the throttle and choke shafts come out.


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## Mastermind (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm working on some craziness.......

A Walbro WB on a boost ported 181.


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## parrisw (Oct 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Oh no. The entire carb gets taken apart. The main nozzle is tapped out, into the bore. Both the throttle and choke shafts come out.



I figured the shafts came out, would be interesting trying to get a boring bar through with the shafts still in place. If you tap the nozzel into the bore, I assume the installation is not the reverse?


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## parrisw (Oct 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm working on some craziness.......
> 
> A Walbro WB on a boost ported 181.



You know the rules. I thought Brad did, but apparently not.


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## blsnelling (Oct 15, 2012)

I like to show everything I can. However, not everything I do is original, and until the person that came up with it cares to share it, I don't feel like I can.


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## Mastermind (Oct 15, 2012)

parrisw said:


> You know the rules. I thought Brad did, but apparently not.



I'll post some pics of the 181.......it's nowhere near done.


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## parrisw (Oct 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I like to show everything I can. However, not everything I do is original, and until the person that came up with it cares to share it, I don't feel like I can.



I do agree with that, but boring a carb is hardly one persons idea's. If that were the case no one would ever show anything, everyone here, don't care who ya are learned lots from other people.


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## AUSSIE1 (Oct 16, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I do agree with that, but boring a carb is hardly one persons idea's. If that were the case no one would ever show anything, everyone here, don't care who ya are learned lots from other people.


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## parrisw (Oct 16, 2012)

AUSSIE1 said:


>



So what exactly are we looking at here.


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## AUSSIE1 (Oct 16, 2012)

parrisw said:


> So what exactly are we looking at here.



:bang:


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## parrisw (Oct 16, 2012)

AUSSIE1 said:


> :bang:



Well besides two carbs. LOL What's done, I see that the bottom one looks like its bored out and you modded the butterfly?


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## AUSSIE1 (Oct 16, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Well besides two carbs. LOL What's done, I see that the bottom one looks like its bored out and you modded the butterfly?



Yeah mate, just a response to what you were saying earlier.

Bored both sides, venturi etc.


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## parrisw (Oct 16, 2012)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Yeah mate, just a response to what you were saying earlier.
> 
> Bored both sides, venturi etc.



Right, now that I think of it, I think we may have talked about that once before.


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## Mastermind (Oct 16, 2012)

Carbs are something I've had trouble getting good solid info on as well. I have a big box of carbs here so if I ruin one it ain't no biggie.........learning this stuff is trail and error.


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## GBD (Oct 16, 2012)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Yeah mate, just a response to what you were saying earlier.
> 
> Bored both sides, venturi etc.



You didn`t bore the HD venturi round did you?


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## GBD (Oct 16, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Why don't you show what you did? I'd like to see, I've never bored a carb before. Are you just boring the venturi? And leaving everything else alone?



IMHO the best way to enlarge carb venturies is to use your brain and a sharp(new) small diameter carbide bit, in that order. Not all carbs like the venturi to be enlarged concentric.


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## blsnelling (Jun 6, 2014)

I might actually sell this saw. Time for something new. Any interest out there? I've used the saw some, but it's still in like new condition. I do not have a price yet, just gauging interest.

As a short synopsis, this saw had the cylinder bored out to 56mm, same as the 395. The squish was cut. It was sent out to US Chrome where it was bored and re-plated. The piston is from a Husky 2100 thin ring. It was ported. The carb is bored. Ignition timing was advanced. 

The saw starts and runs perfectly. It's a very torquey saw with good RPMs. It doesn't make quite the RPMs that my 390 does, but has a little more torque. This would make a fantastic long bar saw for someone, or a very cool toy to add to the collection.


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## jackjcc (Jun 6, 2014)

Is the thread of it running still good? There was a link a few pages back, but it's 404.


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## blsnelling (Jun 6, 2014)

jackjcc said:


> Is the thread of it running still good? There was a link a few pages back, but it's 404.


I'm sure it is, but I don't know how find it. http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/183566-58.htm#post3889795


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