# No more Permatex Motoseal for me.



## jughead500 (Jan 14, 2013)

I sealed the cylinder on my uncles 266xp a while back.figured i would try bumping up the compression without using the base gasket.i used moto seal but didn't like how runny it was.i bought it to seal the clamshells on my 025's with originally.well i had to take the cylinder back off to fiddle with the carb.when i lifted the cylinder it wasnt stuck.i figured i would have to scrape all of the motoseal back off.Well there wasn't any to scrape.every single ounce of it squished out into the bottom end,up around the cylinder bolts and on top of the outside of the case.i even let everything set for 5 minutes before assembly.


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## Zombiechopper (Jan 14, 2013)

you used way too much. Nothing wrong with motoseal


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## excess650 (Jan 14, 2013)

jughead500 said:


> I sealed the cylinder on my uncles 266xp a while back.figured i would try bumping up the compression without using the base gasket.i used moto seal but didn't like how runny it was.i bought it to seal the clamshells on my 025's with originally.well i had to take the cylinder back off to fiddle with the carb.when i lifted the cylinder it wasnt stuck.i figured i would have to scrape all of the motoseal back off.Well there wasn't any to scrape.every single ounce of it squished out into the bottom end,up around the cylinder bolts and on top of the outside of the case.i even let everything set for 5 minutes before assembly.



Try Yamabond if you're close to a Yamaha dealer, Hondabond if close to a Honda dealer, or Threebond 1184. If you can't find it locally, one or more of the site sponsors carries Threebond 1184, and you can always try the 'net.

My tube of Yamabond is "in a safe place":msp_confused: so I ordered Threebond 1184 from one of the site sponsors. It seems a bit more runny than the Yamabond that I bought about 10 years ago, but works well.


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## blsnelling (Jan 14, 2013)

MotoSeal works great for me, almost like glue. I have to knock the cylinder loose.


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## huskydude (Jan 14, 2013)

I bought a tube of motoseal since the local auto parts store had it. I've never used a gasket since. I seal all my saws with it after I check the squish. No problems so far.
A tube lasts forever too.


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## jughead500 (Jan 14, 2013)

I used it more or less to the directions.didnt over do the amount just a thin coat on both surfaces.with this tube its not much more than 30 weight oil.maybe all the good stuff settled to the bottom of the tube?


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## jerrycmorrow (Jan 14, 2013)

could be. mine is always sticky. maybe should take it back and get a new one.


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## barneyrb (Jan 14, 2013)

Sounds to like a prep problem. Nothing will stick to oily parts. I always clean all surfaces with rubbing alcohol and a new paper towel.

Motoseal will not leave thick residue. It is made to seal voids and will be a thin layers measured in mils.


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## blsnelling (Jan 14, 2013)

It is on the runny side, but no issues. I've never seen it separate in the tube. Sounds to me like oily parts too, or leaving it to dry before assembly was a bad idea.


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## Zombiechopper (Jan 14, 2013)

I degrease the case and cylinder then wipe on a thin amount on both surfaces. The mating surfaces are both flat - all the sealant does is fill the imperfections. You only need a tiny bit. Regardless if the product used is runny or thick it is going to squeeze out so don't use too much. When I have pulled jugs off done with motoseal they are stuck on like cement put there is only a tiny residue on the sealing surfaces. I actually like that it is runny because it keeps me from gobbing it on.


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## Fish (Jan 14, 2013)

Zombiechopper said:


> I degrease the case and cylinder then wipe on a thin amount on both surfaces. The mating surfaces are both flat - all the sealant does is fill the imperfections. You only need a tiny bit. Regardless if the product used is runny or thick it is going to squeeze out so don't use too much. When I have pulled jugs off done with motoseal they are stuck on like cement put there is only a tiny residue on the sealing surfaces. I actually like that it is runny because it keeps me from gobbing it on.



You sound like a fun date!!!!!


I just dab on some Indian Head Gasket Shellac.......


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## naturelover (Jan 14, 2013)

I scraped forever trying to get that stuff off when replacing a water pump one time. 


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


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## Simonizer (Jan 14, 2013)

Permatex Ultra-Grey. I have modded a few saws.


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## barneyrb (Jan 14, 2013)

Fish said:


> You sound like a fun date!!!!!
> 
> 
> I just dab on some Indian Head Gasket Shellac.......



That stuff is for when you NEVER want the jug to come back off. I think you could let Indian Head set up and then remove the cylinder bolts and never know the difference.


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## Fish (Jan 14, 2013)

Yeah, that is backup insurance for most of the "techs" here.........

At least no leaks there!!!!!!

But if anyone has a failure, they can always look back and find a culprit!!!!!!

BTW, I am a new National Indian Head supplier, they are for sale in the lobby!!!!!!!


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## pioneerguy600 (Jan 14, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> MotoSeal works great for me, almost like glue. I have to knock the cylinder loose.



You evidently degrease the two surfaces before applying the Motoseal.


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## Fish (Jan 14, 2013)

Indian Head, you putthies....


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## jughead500 (Jan 14, 2013)

hmm maybe this tube is alright??? i tore one of the ms250 assemblies apart that i put together before the 266xp/268 of my uncles.i had to pry the clam shell of and the crank too where i glued the seals in.lol i made sure that i degreased the 266 before i smeared everything down with the motoseal.dont get me wrong i've used suzuki bond for close to 20 years on my old suzuki two strokes but it never seemed this runny.oh well.mybe ill try some of this versa chem lion gasket shellac.lol


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## ford832 (Jan 14, 2013)

jughead500 said:


> I used it more or less to the directions.


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## gmax (Jan 14, 2013)

Simonizer said:


> Permatex Ultra-Grey. I have modded a few saws.



Is Ultra Gray gas resistant?


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## Zombiechopper (Jan 14, 2013)

Fish said:


> Indian Head, you putthies....



idot!!

permatex aviation gasket maker is the real deal. We used to call it the 'black ####'. Got some on my finger once. Now I just say it's an ugly mole cuz it's easier to explain


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## bucknfeller (Jan 14, 2013)

Simonizer said:


> Permatex Ultra-Grey. I have modded a few saws.



This was copied right off the instructions for Ultra Grey:
*NOTE: Not recommended for use on head gaskets or parts in contact with gasoline.*


Threebond 1194 for me.


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## IthacaMan (Jan 14, 2013)

Not sayin its the best ,but this is what I use.


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## Zombiechopper (Jan 14, 2013)

IthacaMan said:


> Not sayin its the best ,but this is what I use.



that's the stuff I was talking about. Smells yummy.


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## bucknfeller (Jan 14, 2013)

IthacaMan said:


> Not sayin its the best ,but this is what I use.



I use that Aviation Forma Gasket alot on big equipment, but it's just too darn nasty for me on saws! I only like using it in places that I can clean up with a polishing disc on a 90* die grinder! It will work though.


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## wkeev (Jan 14, 2013)

Dirko . IMHO


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## dflippin08 (Jan 14, 2013)

Use Dirko


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## PogoInTheWoods (Jan 14, 2013)

Dirko.


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## Miles86 (Jan 15, 2013)

I like Hylomar Universal (racing formula), or Loctite or Permatex anaerobic gasket maker, especially for machined flanges with precise uniform gap.


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## Vintage Engine Repairs (Mar 2, 2021)

Dirko


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## J D (Mar 2, 2021)

Could running a high ethanol fuel have made any difference?


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## sean donato (Mar 2, 2021)

Nope, when we raced unlimited offshore dad used motoseal on that, alcohol, nitromethane. Never was an issue.


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## farmguywithasaw (Mar 2, 2021)

Dirko or pactan equivalent you get from stihl. Or loctight 515 I think would work as well


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## Jasent (Mar 2, 2021)

With moto seal you do not want it to skin up before assembly. Dosent stick as well. Apply and assemble right away. It cures up fast. 5 min is too long ime


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## Yotaismygame (Mar 2, 2021)

farmguywithasaw said:


> Dirko or pactan equivalent you get from stihl. Or loctight 515 I think would work as well


515 or 510 work just fine.


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## PogoInTheWoods (Mar 2, 2021)

MotoSeal Ultra Grey certainly has its place and can be used many ways. Applied to both surfaces and smoothed to set for 1 minute prior to assembly it dries in 20 minutes. Good stuff, but needs to be used correctly. Solvent based. I rely on it it for certain applications -- McCulloch 10 series fuel tank seams immediately come to mind. LOL.

Many people think DirkoHT Red is a Stihl product and reject it out of hand as Stihl haters. It is actually made by another European company called Elring and has been used in the Euro auto industry for years. Exceptionally suited to high temp fuel resistant saw applications. Much more forgiving than MotoSeal during application and disassembly. Superior to most of the other similar products in my opinion. Silicon based. My preference.

Three Bond 1184 is essentially the main (insert whatever **** Bond here) product of this family of sealant/gasket makers. Fine, high quality product used by many. Also solvent based. It's my Dirko backup for base gasket deletes and sealing clamshells. Application can be a little sloppy, but the end result is a dependable seal.

Loctite 515 is an aerobic sealer and needs to be used the right way for the right application. Surface prep and component conditions often determine the success of the application as it basically remains a liquid until the absence of air -- which then allows it to 'set' as a semi-flexible sealant. May or may not be a long term solution depending on any number of variables. I've read of disappointing results with 515. No reason to chance failure (unless experienced using it or it's all you have) when the other products are readily available and proven to be dependable solutions..., at least IMHO. 

And finally, bear in mind Permatex makes several 'MotoSeal' products. Ultra Grey 29132 is the one to use. Using a different version may not yield the desired results for typical chainsaw applications.


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## Yotaismygame (Mar 2, 2021)

PogoInTheWoods said:


> MotoSeal Ultra Grey certainly has its place and can be used many ways. Applied to both surfaces and smoothed to set for 1 minute prior to assembly it dries in 20 minutes. Good stuff, but needs to be used correctly. Solvent based. I rely on it it for certain applications -- McCulloch 10 series fuel tank seams immediately come to mind. LOL.
> 
> Many people think DirkoHT Red is a Stihl product and reject it out of hand as Stihl haters. It is actually made by another European company called Elring and has been used in the Euro auto industry for years. Exceptionally suited to high temp fuel resistant saw applications. Much more forgiving than MotoSeal during application and disassembly. Superior to most of the other similar products in my opinion. Silicon based. My preference.
> 
> ...


My response is from personal experience. No issues. Plenty of my ported saws out there running just fine.


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## PogoInTheWoods (Mar 2, 2021)

Works for you. Great. Didn't say it doesn't. Just wouldn't be my first choice given equal availability of the other products.


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## Yotaismygame (Mar 2, 2021)

"didn't say it doesn't" oooookay sure you didn't.

Real world experience > speculation. Sorry.


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## PogoInTheWoods (Mar 2, 2021)

Apology accepted. LOL


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## Vintage Engine Repairs (Mar 2, 2021)

I agree with you Pogo, Dirko is incredibly
forgiving when compared to the other options. It’s also got a much longer work time (7 minutes in my experience rather than 1-2 with motoseal / threebond before it skins).

In fact, give the tube to someone who can mess up an anvil and he’ll still get an air tight seal with Dirko.

Worth mentioning Dirko HT red isn’t fuel resistant, but it still works.

I just replaced a seal on my model hit and miss engine and used motoseal for the cylinder sleeve and between the cylinder head and cylinder body to mix things up where I’d normally use Dirko.

It’ll be fine, but putting this model engine together using motoseal reminded me that motoseal isn’t necessarily my preference, though I’ll still use it. I do like how easily it applies, but I don’t like how quick it skins up. I purposely used a liberal amount to see if it still sets up in 24 hours. It’s much warmer here in Oz that many countries and I think the cold causes Motoseal sealing / setting issues too.


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## farmguywithasaw (Mar 2, 2021)

Gaudaost said:


> I agree with you Pogo, Dirko is incredibly
> forgiving when compared to the other options. It’s also got a much longer work time (7 minutes in my experience rather than 1-2 with motoseal / threebond before it skins).
> 
> In fact, give the tube to someone who can mess up an anvil and he’ll still get an air tight seal with Dirko.
> ...


Make it into one of these


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## PogoInTheWoods (Mar 2, 2021)

Gaudaost said:


> Worth mentioning Dirko HT red isn’t fuel resistant, but it still works.


You're actually correct and I stand humbly corrected. Perhaps 'petroleum' or 'oil' resistant is more accurate to better categorize its capability in that regard. And while it does indeed still work in such conditions, MotoSeal Ultra Grey would be my first choice for an actual "fuel resistant" application.

Some cool gadgetry you guys have there.


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## bwalker (Mar 2, 2021)

I wouldnt use anything for a base gasket delete that isnt fuel resistant, which rules out most silicone based products.
I've had 100% success using Loctite 510. It's both chemical and heat resistant.


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## Vintage Engine Repairs (Mar 2, 2021)

bwalker said:


> I wouldnt use anything for a base gasket delete that isnt fuel resistant, which rules out most silicone based products.
> I've had 100% success using Loctite 510. It's both chemical and heat resistant.


Yes, but note that literally every Stihl shop in the world uses Dirko ht red for every crankshaft seal and clamshell engine (not just chainsaws). I have never heard of a single failure of anyone using Dirko due to fuel on here and can’t imagine Stihl would use Dirko ht red in every manual and engine above for decades if there was an issue.


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