# How long should I drag brush?



## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

I'm new to the commercial tree world and I'm wondering how long I should drag brush. My climber is more than willing to teach me to climb but I know I don't deserve that yet, I still need some more work on the ground. I'm not trying to jump to the top, I want to take my time and earn it, but at the same time, I don't want to drag brush for a career. Is there an average number of seasons before I should step into the spurs for the first time?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

There's no set time, if you feel you're ready and he'll ease you into it go for it.


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## HuskStihl (Jul 18, 2015)

I'd drag it until you reach the chipper


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> There's no set time, if you feel you're ready and he'll ease you into it go for it.


Awesome, thank you. I have alot of knot work first, which he helps with and I'll go from there.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

It's amazing how many groundies haven't mastered that.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Where are you in AK? I just got back from there.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Where are you in AK? I just got back from there.


Wasilla, our crew covers eagle river to about willow.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

I was in Fairbanks for a year.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I was in Fairbanks for a year.


Awesome, I haven't been up that far, I'm about 5 hours south.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Nah, it pretty much sucked, but I got through it.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Nah, it pretty much sucked, but I got through it.


We're you doing tree work? I iimagine alot of spruce up there.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Spruce, birch, cottonwood, and one shitty aspen, lol.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/it-was-a-hell-of-a-ride.261576/


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Spruce, birch, cottonwood, and one shitty aspen, lol.
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/it-was-a-hell-of-a-ride.261576/


Yep, that's Alaska.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Hopefully you have a good mentor, just remember he's only as good as he was trained. Stay safe and pester us with questions.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

From what I see he is pretty good for his experience. He's only been climbing for about 3 years, did 3 years of forestry before that. He is safe too, which is important.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

I prefer to have new groundies drag it 4 miles to see if they can cut the mustard


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

On a serious note if you plan to progress get you the tree climbers companion. It will help you as the climber trains you and might keep you safe.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

Will get that on order, thanks. Maybe it will be here by time I'm done with the 4 miles.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

ropensaddle said:


> I prefer to have new groundies drag it 4 miles to see if they can cut the mustard




That used to work back in the day, these days if they can go 15 minutes without checking their ophone I'm happy.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> That used to work back in the day, these days if they can go 15 minutes without checking their ophone I'm happy.


My phone stays in the truck.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

You might just have a future in this business... it's not too late to back out, once you put the spurs on, you're screwed.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

And Rope, looks like I'm retired. Gonna move over to cell towers. They don't fall.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

The shoulder's better, but it's never gonna be the same.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> You might just have a future in this business... it's not too late to back out, once you put the spurs on, you're screwed.


True story, I worked one week chipping the guys kept riving me about climbing trying to scare me etc  One day the top climber ask if i thought i could climb I said sure. He said see that 100 foot pine ? Me yup, he said see that big limb overhanging that tree phaze? Me yup, he said if i tell you how to cut it you think you could? Me yup if you think I get a dollar more per hour lol. He grinned said deal handed me spurs 1982, I climbed up and cut that sob and came down. Everyone on crew but me thought I would freeze lol, was climber that day on. My very first climb was overhang, btw i don't recommend that, just how it happened for me!


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

I'm 29, I love working with trees and I'm tired of starting over, I'm not going anywhere by choice. Good luck on your transition and thanks for all the advice.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> The shoulder's better, but it's never gonna be the same.


Mine hurts bro i just deal with it! It locks up sometimes which is a bad day lucky for me i can say aww fk it and go home lol


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

ropensaddle said:


> True story, I worked one week chipping the guys kept riving me about climbing trying to scare me etc  One day the top climber ask if i thought i could climb I said sure. He said see that 100 foot pine ? Me yup, he said see that big limb overhanging that tree phaze? Me yup, he said if i tell you how to cut it you think you could? Me yup if you think I get a dollar more per hour lol. He grinned said deal handed me spurs 1982, I climbed up and cut that sob and came down. Everyone on crew but me thought I would freeze lol was climber that day on. My very first climb was overhang btw i don't recommend that just how it happened for me!


Lol awesome. I think I'll start a little smaller, stick to the wood line for a bit.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Got an offer I can't refuse, and I'm tired of hurtin. I'll just keep it on the side.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

How are your saw and felling skills Scott? I do have some connections on that natural gas pipeline to Fairbanks if you get jammed.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

ScottinAK said:


> Lol awesome. I think I'll start a little smaller, stick to the wood line for a bit.


Well in them days I was cockstrong and hard headed chest beating mofo lol. Wise to go the easier route, its a wonder I survived first 5 years but never a serious injury in 30 years! Few close calls yes!


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> How are your saw and felling skills Scott? I do have some connections on that natural gas pipeline to Fairbanks if you get jammed.


Pretty good, not professional though. I think I doubt my ability to be on the safe side but it's something I'm trying to get over.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

By no means am I afraid to use a saw, I'm very comfortable with one. It's trees close to structures that make me doubt.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Weren't we all back then. Cowboys with chainsaws. I never really expected to make it this long. You ever chase a hurricane, Rope? Now that's a hoot!


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

ScottinAK said:


> Pretty good, not professional though. I think I doubt my ability to be on the safe side but it's something I'm trying to get over.


Can you fall this ?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Scott, still have my ear to the ground. If and when that project pops, I'll give you a shout. Good money, good per diem.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Weren't we all back then. Cowboys with chainsaws. I never really expected to make it this long. You ever chase a hurricane, Rope? Now that's a hoot!


No but i had one chase me


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

ropensaddle said:


> Can you fall this ?


Ha, probably not, that looks like all sorts of trouble. One day my friend, one day.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Scott, still have my ear to the ground. If and when that project pops, I'll give you a shout. Good money, good per diem.


I'm always here and I get better everyday, that would be awesome!


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

ScottinAK said:


> Ha, probably not, that looks like all sorts of trouble. One day my friend, one day.


Scott remember this, a good winch covers up a few mistakes with the saw, not all mind you but will cover some!


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

see


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

Not all trees can be felled though


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

ropensaddle said:


> see


With the rot on the face, would you winch and just do a back cut? There's obviously no real face cut or hinge wood there.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

ScottinAK said:


> With the rot on the face, would you winch and just do a back cut? There's obviously no real face cut or hinge wood there.


I made a small face not much just opened that right side then put a binder around the butt too prevent chair pulled the winch until the top shook a tad and cut! I stopped cutting when i had four inch hollow hinge and had my helper winch it on over!


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

That's gnarly.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

The rope u see was additional safety measure the winch cable harder to see was a 20 ton braden!


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

ScottinAK said:


> That's gnarly.


Most of the services in the area turned it down, it was tough but I have done worse!


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

ropensaddle said:


> Most on the services in the area turned it down it was tough but I have done worse!


Had to be done though right? That puts you above everyone else for that customer and I'm sure will bring more business. Nice work.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2015)

ScottinAK said:


> Had to be done though right? That puts you above everyone else for that customer and I'm sure will bring more business. Nice work.


Yes your going to do fine know your limitations plenty of time to learn and no shame in turning down something your not prepared for!


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

ropensaddle said:


> Yes your going to do fine know your limitations plenty of time to learn and no shame in turning down something your not prepared for!


Thanks man, to you and the jollylogger, thanks for the advice and support.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Ya gotta put em where ya want em


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> View attachment 436530
> View attachment 436530
> Ya gotta put em where ya want em


I can dig it, nice work. Looking forward to the challenges Monday will bring.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Just remember every question you ever thought to ask has probably been answered 20 times on AS. Use the search function, never cut faster than you can think, get religion as far as PPE goes, and you're already ahead of half the guys in this business.


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## Zale (Jul 18, 2015)

How long should you drag? Until the job's done. I'm not of the school where the climber doesn't drag brush. Everybody works till the job is done. No prima donnas allowed.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

Zale said:


> How long should you drag? Until the job's done. I'm not of the school where the climber doesn't drag brush. Everybody works till the job is done. No prima donnas allowed.


I understand that, and our climber does drag. I was asking because iI want to be more valuable and versatile. If you were an employer, would you hire a strictly groundsman experienced, or a climber who started from the bottom and is willing to work every aspect of the job from start to finish, maybe even some quotes?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Next thing ya know, you're Gonna be saying climbers should coil their own ropes, gas their own saws, set their own ropes, drive themselves to the jobsite, buy their own breakfast.... shhhh, we're just getting him trained right!!


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> View attachment 436530
> View attachment 436530
> Ya gotta put em where ya want em


Jeff you must've watched Murph's precision tree falling videos to do work like that[emoji1]


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

All kidding aside, I agree with you up to a point, Zale. I've never hesitated to jump in, but there is another side to the story. When I was cleaning up that Bastrop fire, the business owner had a bad habit of swinging by about 4:00 to do "one more job." I learned to hold a little in reserve. I don't mind helping with brush and raking, at my own pace, but by the time I get down I've done my job. Not to mention the groundies had plenty of down time on the clock while I was getting set up.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Murph would have made it a 2 day job. That was tree 14 on that job and I was too Dammed tired to climb it and piece it down.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

And yes, Scott, I was taking a risk there and should have come back the next day and done it the right way. If you look at the stump that rot at faller's left could have cost me a fence section and post. Do as I say, not as I do, lol.

Was a sweet drop, though.....


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

I can see it, I'll keep things like that in mind.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

Just always respect the tree, scott, because they could give a **** about you. I honestly think I got screwed up because I just got tired and maybe lost respect for them. It was another day on the job, and that's a dangerous mindset to get into.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

I understand, don't get complacent, don't take short cuts. Mother nature is a self sufficient killer.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 18, 2015)

To cut to the chase, and get back to the original question, you're ready.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 18, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> To cut to the chase, and get back to the original question, you're ready.


Thanks man, I really appreciate it.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 25, 2015)

Zale said:


> How long should you drag? Until the job's done. I'm not of the school where the climber doesn't drag brush. Everybody works till the job is done. No prima donnas allowed.


My jobs done when i get down and stay away from donna lol shes mineIt however depends on whats going on up in the tree and down on the ground, if the groundie has been working i'll jump in, if he has had it made in the shade time for him to make his keep!


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## derwoodii (Jul 25, 2015)

ScottinAK said:


> I'm new to the commercial tree world and I'm wondering how long I should drag brush. My climber is more than willing to teach me to climb but I know I don't deserve that yet, I still need some more work on the ground. I'm not trying to jump to the top, I want to take my time and earn it, but at the same time, I don't want to drag brush for a career. Is there an average number of seasons before I should step into the spurs for the first time?




i was groundie lacky for about 6 full time months, i did not touch a saw just fueled n fixed them but i was given suitable to trees to climb with hand saws and skill up my climbing striping limbs before one day i was given a 020


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## Warren89 (Jul 25, 2015)

I'm new to this forum but it thought my input might help. I worked for two utility tree companies, not saying any names but they're well known, for a total of about 6 years before going residential and I've always thought that everyone has something to teach you. Even if its what NOT to do. Most importantly, just be observant and always speak up/ask questions. It sucks being new and at times it can be frustrating but, if you have good people around you, they're only looking out for you.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 25, 2015)

Thanks for your input Warren. The only thing frustrating is the bidding. Our bidder was never a tree guy and it constantly makes us kill ourselves trying to stay in our profit margin. Other than that I love everything about it. Oh, and yellow jackets, I hate yellow jackets.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 25, 2015)

I do see a few things that I will do differently as I progress. I really do have a good crew except one groundie but hopefully he won't be there long. I'm not shy to ask questions and my climber and foreman are more than happy to answer them. I just ordered the tree climbers companion and have been working on knots. I get better every day.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 25, 2015)

Lol, ok so now I wanna be a groundie, any pointers?


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## ScottinAK (Jul 25, 2015)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol, ok so now I wanna be a groundie, any pointers?


Lol was that toward me?


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## treebilly (Jul 25, 2015)

Scott if you've got guys willing to teach, take advantage of it and learn all you can. Also there's no shame in backing away from something you don't feel ready for. 
I've been told that The Fundamentals of General Treework is another good book. Somebody correct me if I got the title wrong. It's by Gerald Baranek. 

Sorry to hear your shoulder is causing so many issues Jollylogger. Hope the tower thing works out for you.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 25, 2015)

treebilly said:


> Scott if you've got guys willing to teach, take advantage of it and learn all you can. Also there's no shame in backing away from something you don't feel ready for.
> I've been told that The Fundamentals of General Treework is another good book. Somebody correct me if I got the title wrong. It's by Gerald Baranek.
> 
> Sorry to hear your shoulder is causing so many issues Jollylogger. Hope the tower thing works out for you.


Thanks, that's another book I'm going to get, Jerry has a few books that are supposed to be awesome.


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## Gypo Logger (Jul 26, 2015)

If your climber is calling you a brush humper, than you have probably dragged brush too long.
Climbing is not only stupid, it's dangerous.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 26, 2015)

Gypo Logger said:


> If your climber is calling you a brush humper, than you have probably dragged brush too long.
> Climbing is not only stupid, it's dangerous.


Lol he doesn't call me that. I know it's dangerous but that's what I want to do.


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## Warren89 (Jul 26, 2015)

I like climbing personally. It gives you a unique perspective on tree work as a whole. I wouldn't recommend climbing for eveyone but I wouldn't call it "stupid".


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## ScottinAK (Jul 26, 2015)

I understand that completely. We both have our own job to do. I try my best to keep the brush clear. As soon as my climber hangs his saw I'm down there and out.


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## Warren89 (Jul 26, 2015)

This is the view from about 105" up in a 115" White Pine. I was installing a line so my groundmen could pull the top over as I cut. As any climber can tell you, there's nothing like the feeling of dropping 30" of top out of a tree like that.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 26, 2015)

Gypo's just trolling again.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 26, 2015)

Warren89 said:


> View attachment 437964
> View attachment 437962
> This is the view from about 105" up in a 115" White Pine. I was installing a line so my groundmen could pull the top over as I cut. As any climber can tell you, there's nothing like the feeling of dropping 30" of top out of a tree like that.


I'm ready man. My climber comes back from vacation Monday, hopefully I get in a tree this week.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 27, 2015)

ScottinAK said:


> Lol was that toward me?


Sure mate any pointers?I mean I know I need eyes in the top of my head and stuff but like half wrap or full, when to get two? Do I constantly ask the climber which rope to send stuff up? Am I in control of the homeowner and general public getting near the lz? Do I pull too much slack out of the lowering rope so that it falls out on its own? Do I rig a 5 to 1 when the climber needs a top pulled over? Do I just snug a speedline or get it tight as a banjo string? Do I move the climbers rope when he is going to bomb brush and logs or is it bad mojo to touch his rope and should I yank it first? I'm a newbie so any help would be enlightening


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## Zale (Jul 28, 2015)

Warren89 said:


> View attachment 437964
> View attachment 437962
> This is the view from about 105" up in a 115" White Pine. I was installing a line so my groundmen could pull the top over as I cut. As any climber can tell you, there's nothing like the feeling of dropping 30" of top out of a tree like that.



Do you really need a rope to pull a 30" top? Seems you could just push it over.


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## ScottinAK (Jul 28, 2015)

Spurred my first tree today, it was only to get a dead hung up branch, but still.


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## Warren89 (Jul 28, 2015)

I'd rather have a rope in a top and not need it then not have it and need it. Besides it did lean back and behind me was distribution line.


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## Zale (Jul 28, 2015)

Still, a 30" top isn't that hard to handle.


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## Warren89 (Jul 28, 2015)

ScottinAK said:


> Spurred my first tree today, it was only to get a dead hung up branch, but still.


 Nice. You've got to start somewhere.


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## Warren89 (Jul 28, 2015)

Have you dealt with white pine much? Did you look at the picture? The tree, mostly because of its position on a hill, was 10-20 feet taller then all others near it. White pine breaks hinge easy and with "just" 30ft of top, a breeze could easily push it completely over backwards.


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## Warren89 (Jul 28, 2015)

And your right. It was incredibly easy to put the top exactly where I wanted it..... with the rope.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 28, 2015)

Warren89 said:


> Have you dealt with white pine much? Did you look at the picture? The tree, mostly because of its position on a hill, was 10-20 feet taller then all others near it. White pine breaks hinge easy and with "just" 30ft of top, a breeze could easily push it completely over backwards.


I have done many whites in Michigan regardless of species though I want a rope. I'm just not in the business to take un-necessary chances. I'll do my gamblin at the horse track !! I was thinking in your picture looked more like 65 feet tall to me but good on you for the rope


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## ropensaddle (Jul 28, 2015)

Zale said:


> Still, a 30" top isn't that hard to handle.


It is if its on you


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## treebilly (Jul 28, 2015)

I think Zale was picking at the mismarked 30' top. " denotes inches. 
I'll use a rope to pull when it's necessary.


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## Warren89 (Jul 28, 2015)

He might have been. I thought it odd that he'd argue the point of a rope in that much top. Sorry for the confusion.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 29, 2015)

treebilly said:


> I think Zale was picking at the mismarked 30' top. " denotes inches.
> I'll use a rope to pull when it's necessary.


Well see theres where we had different trains of thought lol I was thinking 30" diameter top


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## Zale (Jul 29, 2015)

treebilly said:


> I think Zale was picking at the mismarked 30' top. " denotes inches.
> I'll use a rope to pull when it's necessary.



Treebilly is the winner! I'm fairly certain there are no white pine 30" diameter at that height.


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## Warren89 (Jul 29, 2015)

For clarification, the top was 30 feet tall and 16-18 inches in diameter. It was nice and full top with lots of green. I have a video looking around from the top of the tree. I'll see if I can upload it on YouTube or something.


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## Zale (Jul 29, 2015)

30 feet tall? Why didn't you say so? I definitely would put a rope in that.


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## Warren89 (Jul 29, 2015)

Lol I'll make it simple and avoid quotations of any kind as I am apparently unable to use them properly


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## Zale (Jul 29, 2015)

Just takes practice.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 29, 2015)

Be careful warren, those spelling and pronunciation police are brutal


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## Warren89 (Jul 30, 2015)

Well I think we've digressed enough lol. Congrats to you Scott on climbing your first tree. The most important thing in tree, at least in my opinion, is positioning. Always think about what's going to happen when you make your next cut and where you should be. Every time I started my saw, when I was new to climbing and after I graduated from a handsaw, my foreman would always ask, "Do you know what happens if you cut your rope. You die." It was a crass way of putting it, but it invoked a thought process that continues today.


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## Del_ (Jul 30, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> I'd drag it until you reach the chipper



Best answer!


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## TreeBoi4Life (Aug 18, 2015)

As regards some tips for dragging brush be sure and check this out...


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## ScottinAK (Aug 18, 2015)

TreeBoi4Life said:


> As regards some tips for dragging brush be sure and check this out...



Already have, I've seen most of your videos regarding tree work, you've helped alot.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 21, 2015)

TreeBoi4Life said:


> As regards some tips for dragging brush be sure and check this out...



Wow I been grabbing it from the bottom with skid steer forks


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## Warren89 (Aug 21, 2015)

I grab it from the bottom because i can.... Just kidding. We have a log truck with a grapple and side boards that grabs most of it


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