# Hardest Tree Type



## Bills Oak (Oct 22, 2004)

I was out cutting red oaks last night & was asked a question that I was sure how to answer so here goes. Man asked me what the hardest/toughest tree to cut was & I am not sure--maybe Hickory? I told him I would ask the experts & get him an answer. Any help is appreciated..Thanks, Bill Irvine


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## treeman45246 (Oct 22, 2004)

I'd go with Osage Orange around here - the deader, the harder.


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## DirtTroll (Oct 22, 2004)

Black locust.


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## Gypo Logger (Oct 22, 2004)

The hardness of any wood is also related to it's moisture content.
Here in the Great lakes District, Ironwood would be first on the list and then Rock Maple. Locust and Shagbark Hickory may we just as hard as Maple, but I always leave these two species where I find them as they aren't worth much. Oak when green, cuts relatively easy since it is ring porous.
John


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## NYCHA FORESTER (Oct 22, 2004)

Platanus, Carpinus, to name a couple...sycamore is used to make butcher blocks


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 22, 2004)

Bodock!


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## NickfromWI (Oct 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by NYCHA FORESTER _
> *...sycamore is used to make butcher blocks *



Wow, I didn't know that. It's funny, because to me, when you cut into a thick piece of sycamore, it looks a lot like a slab of raw meat! Same color, you know.

love
nick


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## SteveBullman (Oct 22, 2004)

dead elm's about the hardest we get here i'd say


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## Base (Oct 22, 2004)

i would agree on the dead elm though i did a evergreen oak and that was pretty dense wood


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## Reed (Oct 22, 2004)

We have an ebony here called Persimmon. Like black locust it just about sparks when sawed.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Oct 22, 2004)

fagus sylvatica 'common beech' can be hard on a saw esspecialy big beech..heart wood like iron at times...though must agree with stephenbullman dead elm is the hardest..false acacia is very hard also


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## pmuscato (Oct 22, 2004)

Crape Myrtle small tree but very hard


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## chris_girard (Oct 22, 2004)

Around here in NH I would say Hard Rock Maple.


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## Guy Meilleur (Oct 22, 2004)

Hickory here, tho I don't cut a lot of anything anymore; it is the hardest common wood.

Butch what in the world is Bodock?


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## jkrueger (Oct 22, 2004)

Not in my area, and when I worked on the NYC water front servicing the dock builders, there was a special pile wood that came from south america, called green heart. It would dull bits and chain where they would have to be resharpened 3-4 times to get through. They would last for ever and more structualy sound than any other material. Besides that if you threw a piece into the water it was so heavy it would sink.

Now in the arbor world I sure wouldn't want to prune or take down one of them.

I don't know the latin name for it, sorry.

Jack


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## ROLLACOSTA (Oct 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by jkrueger _
> *Not in my area, and when I worked on the NYC water front servicing the dock builders, there was a special pile wood that came from south america, called green heart. It would dull bits and chain where they would have to be resharpened 3-4 times to get through. They would last for ever and more structualy sound than any other material. Besides that if you threw a piece into the water it was so heavy it would sink.
> 
> Now in the arbor world I sure wouldn't want to prune or take down one of them.
> ...



i have cut 200 year old green heart at a dock here in Ipswich my home town ..it was burried 20 feet deep in mud ..anyway long story short a tunneling gang[laying massive new sewige system] came accross a timber frame with there tunneling machine it got stuck and would'nt budge this structure so called me in as have a chainsaw ticket to help save the day..but yes its very hard


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## BigJohn (Oct 22, 2004)

Here I would say osage orange number 1 then locust, hop horn bean, dog wood. Its funny I find sycamore to be soft in a sense as it is easy to cut but very dense and it sinks.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Oct 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BigJohn _
> *Here I would say osage orange number 1 then locust, hop horn bean, dog wood. Its funny I find sycamore to be soft in a sense as it is easy to cut but very dense and it sinks. *




sycamore when will you yanks call it by its 500+ year old proper english name 'PLANE' london plan ,oriental plane etc etc  ..real sycamore is 'acer psuedoplatanus'..and has been for a thousand plus years


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## Burnham (Oct 22, 2004)

Pacific yew...tough stuff.


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## BigJohn (Oct 22, 2004)

The sycamore and london plane are two different trees.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Oct 22, 2004)

i was told that in the states planes platanus x hispanica [london plane] and platanus orientalis [oriental plane] where often reffered to as sycamore


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## ptar (Oct 22, 2004)

*Sycamore*

Big John, ROLLACOSTA,

Around here, Platanus x acerifolia 'Yarwood'
is called 'Yarwood Sycamore' of 'Yarwood
London Plane'. I hear 'Sycamore' a lot
more than 'London Plane'.
The same goes for 'Bloodgood' , 'Liberty' 
and 'Columbia'. 

In the UK, a Sycamore is an Acer pseudoplatanus.


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## Ax-man (Oct 22, 2004)

Other than the already mentioned trees, I'll cast my vote for a tree that has a rotten center that has all that punky, decayed, water soaked good stuff still inside of it. 

I don't why, but just about every time we cut one of these rotten trees takes the edge right off a saw especially Red Oak with a tie between Cottonwood and Soft Maple. Stump cuts seem to be the worst, it almost like cutting through dirt, sometimes.

I would much rather cut on the hardest wood in our area, dead or alive, than cut on some rotten snag.

Larry


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## DDM (Oct 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ROLLACOSTA _
> *in as have a chainsaw ticket to help save the day..but yes its very hard *



What the Hell is a chainsaw ticket?


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## Stumper (Oct 23, 2004)

Re: the Butcher's blocks-The reason Hackberry is called HACKberry is because of its historic usage as butcers blocks. That said-Neither density nor resistance to splitting or splintering have much to do with ease or difficulty of cutting.(Hackberry saws nicely)
Many people are surprised when informed that some woods that saw easily are relativley hard to grind the stumps thereof. 
Among North American trees-Palms are soft but very difficult to cut with a chainsaw. Linden is soft and easily cut but has some of the palm's tendency to tighten the kerf with severed fiber ends when you get into large diameters. Big DEAD lilac can be TOUGH (green it cuts easy). Several have mentioned Osage/ beaud'arc and it is both very dense and hard to cut. (Also hard to stumpgrind) There is an acacia found in southern Africa that is called Hardecol(=Hard as coal) It is frightfully hard stuff- about 20 minutes cutting on a dead one WITHOUT touching dirt and you need to resharpen a chain.


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## che (Oct 23, 2004)

That's one thing nice about cutting osage orange....anything I cut afterwards is so easy.....kinda like taking a break.

I took some pictures at the farm today, the two on the far right are both what I've always called 'sycamore'...I don't know if it's obvious from the picture, but are they? 

These two trees are growing within a hundred feet of each other, but they look so different from the leaf color and bark color. Strange.

today's fall images


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## Nickrosis (Oct 23, 2004)

Fantastic pictures as always. Great use of focal length.


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## Gord (Oct 23, 2004)

it seems a bit strange that on an arborist site there is so much confusion about common names vs scientific. i've heard all of the planes as well as acer pseudoplatanus commonly called 'sycamores.' none is more of a 'sycamore' than the other...it's just local vernacular

on another note dead arbutus is one of the hardest to cut around here...not so bad when it's live tho it is very hard and dense.

i find the hardest wood to cut is the stuff covered in dirt


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## techdave (Oct 23, 2004)

*Sycamores*

Hi RollaCosta, the Sycamore of Californnia is Platanus racemosa. The arizona Sycamore is Platanus wrightii. Most definitely not the imported plane tree of urban and suburban settings.


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## Gypo Logger (Oct 23, 2004)

Here's a vid of a 385 modified worksaw cutting a green Elm. I called it Rock Elm, but it could be Grey or Pith Elm. On second thought dry Elm is pretty hard as are most hardwoods when their MC is at its lowest.
John


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## Gypo Logger (Oct 23, 2004)

Here's a vid of a 385 modified worksaw cutting a green Elm. I called it Rock Elm, but it could be Grey or Pith Elm. On second thought dry Elm is pretty hard as are most hardwoods when their MC is at its lowest.
John


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## Nickrosis (Oct 23, 2004)

What did you say? What did you say? The first video is just a blurb....the second post has the whole video.


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## Gypo Logger (Oct 23, 2004)

Hi Nick, I must have hit submit twice, but don't tell Butch or he'll be up to 10,000 posts in no time. 
Anyway, here's some bone dry Ironwood.
John


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## P_woozel (Oct 23, 2004)

I've cut dead black oak in CA that I thought was the hardest, But the guy I was partnered with was from Nebraska and said hedgeball trees were hard as concrete maybe thats Osage orange? He also said they made longbows out of it too.


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## Stumper (Oct 23, 2004)

Yep, Osage. -But it is quite a bit harder than some concrete.


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## glens (Oct 28, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ROLLACOSTA _
> *i was told that in the states planes platanus x hispanica [london plane] and platanus orientalis [oriental plane] where often reffered to as sycamore  *



Howdy, RC.

Try this: (you'll need your "Back" button after?) <form method="post" action="http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/data_results_with_common.cfm?family=Platanaceae"><input type="submit" name="Search" value="Platanaceae"></form>

Glen


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## Al Smith (Oct 28, 2004)

*Hardest wood*

Hardest when green, Ironwood,Osage Orange.When dry,American elm[rarely seen],Red Oak,Shagbark Hickory,Black Cherry,Black Locust.In the picture,the saw is on a block of bone dry red oak.I keep some of it around,to test my saws after a rebuilt,or tune up.If it will cut this stuff,it will cut anything.


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## highpoint-utd (Oct 28, 2004)

hmmmm much confusion about the syacamore  
the sycamore named in england is as rolla correctly said the common name for over a thousand years however this name was accutally derived from them scotch name for a similar leaved shrub called the sycamorus (this name apparently came from the bible as the shrub resembled the sycamorus named somewhere in the bible? dunno where though ) cant remember where i learned this but i think it was in an old forestry book .


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## ROLLACOSTA (Oct 28, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DDM _
> *What the Hell is a chainsaw ticket? *




its a mandatory certificate/qualifacation required by anyone who uses a chainsaw for work


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## Lumberjack (Oct 29, 2004)

I agree with butch, dried bodock is pretty dang tough. Even a sharp chain throws dust, not chips. Man its tough!

The next toughest? Big (in DBH) hackberry. Why is that? Because around here, people used those as a place to chain their junk too. Never know what you will find in one, metal poles running up the tree, bricks, various plumbing. You name it we have found it. Exvcept for small imports, cuz they werent around then.


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## tophopper (Oct 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ROLLACOSTA _
> *its a mandatory certificate/qualifacation required by anyone who uses a chainsaw for work *



It would be intersting to see a comparison of injury statisics from the US where anyone who can start a saw can use a saw, compared to other countries where certification is required. 
I bet we have WAY more injuries


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## Stumper (Oct 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tophopper _
> *It would be intersting to see a comparison of injury statisics from the US where anyone who can start a saw can use a saw, compared to other countries where certification is required.
> I bet we have WAY more injuries *



Probably, but we retain a bit more of our ever diminishing freedom. I think that it is ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTFUL that anyone can start a saw and run it. If juries would never allow idiots to blame someone else for their autoamputations then the situation would be PERFECT.


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## jamie (Oct 29, 2004)

*tickets*

as with most things the most important bit is using the pink fleshy thing that stops the sawdust flowing from ear to ear.

one of the guys on my course failed as he routinly stood beneth hung up trees, never tightened side casings was generally a bit useless...




jamie


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## Newfie (Oct 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Stumper _
> *Probably, but we retain a bit more of our ever diminishing freedom. I think that it is ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTFUL that anyone can start a saw and run it. If juries would never allow idiots to blame someone else for their autoamputations then the situation would be PERFECT. *




Justin, are you suggesting that people be responsible for their own actions? That's just kooky talk!


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## Stumper (Oct 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Newfie _
> *Justin, are you suggesting that people be responsible for their own actions? That's just kooky talk! *



What can I say? I'm a dreamer.


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