# spur climbing set up for redwood questions



## norcalshoot (Mar 16, 2011)

I am new to climbing and buying my first set up. I will be mostly limbing up and removing redwoods. My questions are

1: How are climb right spurs for redwood? are 2 3/4" long enough or do I need something longer such as buckingham 3 1/2 fixed spurs?

2: I have decided I like the weaver extra wide back saddles, but dont have any experience in them. I don't know which one to get, Split legs or butt strap, Split suspension or sliding dees or double sliding dees

3: I want a steel core flip line. What are the advantages / disadvantages of 5/8 and 1/2" flip lines?
Thanks in advance for any help. I would greatly appreciate any advice or suggestions


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## Gologit (Mar 17, 2011)

How big are the redwoods? We talking OG here or smaller stuff?


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 17, 2011)

norcalshoot said:


> I am new to climbing and buying my first set up. I will be mostly limbing up and removing redwoods. My questions are
> 
> 1: How are climb right spurs for redwood? are 2 3/4" long enough or do I need something longer such as buckingham 3 1/2 fixed spurs?
> 
> ...



Wow! Who hired you and do they know you don't know much? 
Jeff :msp_ohmy:


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## Gologit (Mar 17, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Wow! Who hired you and do they know you don't know much?
> Jeff :msp_ohmy:


 
I read his profile. 23 years old, total greenhorn, currently unemployed. 

But look out! He's gonna get himself some climbing gear, as soon as somebody tells him which gear to get and how to use it, and he's gonna climb himself some REDWOOD TREES. Wow.

Cut him a little slack Jeff...we might have a future Jerry Beranek here. Kinda doubt it, though. :msp_biggrin:


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## TreeAce (Mar 17, 2011)

Gologit said:


> I read his profile. 23 years old, total greenhorn, currently unemployed.
> 
> But look out! He's gonna get himself some climbing gear, as soon as somebody tells him which gear to get and how to use it, and he's gonna climb himself some REDWOOD TREES. Wow.
> 
> Cut him a little slack Jeff...we might have a future Jerry Beranek here. Kinda doubt it, though. :msp_biggrin:


 
YA...but think of it this way for a minute....atleast he took the initiative to ask about somthing that most 23 year olds are far to lazy to even think of, let alone inquire about. Asking questions like his are much better than playing video games.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 17, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> YA...but think of it this way for a minute....atleast he took the initiative to ask about somthing that most 23 year olds are far to lazy to even think of, let alone inquire about. Asking questions like his are much better than playing video games.



All valid point's. But who is the guy that is gonna pay him? Sound's sketchy to me unless he is doing it on his own. Not trying to be mean, but I would not hire a guy without experience unless I plan on training him.
Jeff :msp_smile:


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## TreeAce (Mar 17, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> All valid point's. But who is the guy that is gonna pay him? Sound's sketchy to me unless he is doing it on his own. Not trying to be mean, but I would not hire a guy without experience unless I plan on training him.
> Jeff :msp_smile:


 
I dont think you were being mean at all. Who knows, it does seem wierd though. If he had work with someone worth while then THAT person should be telling him what he needs. And if he doesnt have someone to teach him then thats just no good at all. 

How about some more info norcalshoot?


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## norcalshoot (Mar 17, 2011)

ouch you guys don't give much slack around here. Nobody is hiring me. I am not looking to steal peoples money while I am leaning to climb. I have 20 acres of second growth redwood to practice on. I like the forest when it is limbed up and we had a great view of the ocean, but their are alot of tree tops in the way now. I have someone who is going to teach me who seems to know what he is doing but is not the god of climbing and has only used the gear he owns. I guess what I am looking for is some opinions on the gear to see what is working for others in redwoods. our largest trees are probably 4-5 feet with the average 2-3 feet diameter in the butt and those will be getting the lower branches cut to clean up the trees. Their are alot of over crowded small trees from the last logging that need to be thinned. And for anyone who might think I am going to damage these beautiful redWEEDs with spurs, I doubt it. If you cut a redwood down at the ground, at the end of the year you have about 40 suckers growing from the stump that are at least 3 feet tall.


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## RandyMac (Mar 17, 2011)

Really, sprout right outta the Stump?


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## norcalshoot (Mar 18, 2011)

no joke. REDWEEDS. honestly I hate them they are like a nightmare, The more I cut the suckers down the stronger and faster they grow back.


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## RandyMac (Mar 18, 2011)

are Redwoods as big as they say they are?


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## norcalshoot (Mar 18, 2011)

They can get big. Don't you have redwoods in the upper left hand corner of California?


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## RandyMac (Mar 18, 2011)

I was waitin' on that.:msp_biggrin:

Welcome to AS.
Do you drink beer?


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## norcalshoot (Mar 18, 2011)

Yeah I drink beer. Is that allowed on AS?


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## RandyMac (Mar 18, 2011)

sure enough.
We are also friends with Jim and Jack.


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## imagineero (Mar 18, 2011)

norcalshoot said:


> 1: How are climb right spurs for redwood? are 2 3/4" long enough or do I need something longer such as buckingham 3 1/2 fixed spurs?
> 
> 2: I have decided I like the weaver extra wide back saddles, but dont have any experience in them. I don't know which one to get, Split legs or butt strap, Split suspension or sliding dees or double sliding dees
> 
> ...


 
1: I cant really comment on redwoods since we dont have them where I live. We do have some very thick barked trees though. The consensus among most climbers (myself included) is climb on the shortest spikes you can. There are a few who go the other way though. With longer spikes the angle of the spike seems to come much more into play. Those with offsets seem pretty popular. I'm climbing on steel bashlins with pole spurs, I love them and rarely find myself underspiked.

2: very much a personal call. I'm climbing on a treemotion and love it more than my own family. If you're a fat bastard then you'll appreciate the buttstrap, especially if you are going to spend a lot of time hanging. If you are skinny or will be doing a lot of technical work (limb walking etc) then leg straps are more the go - less comfort but more freedom of movement. The floating bridge vs fixed D's is much the same scenario; floating bridge gives more freedom of movement. The floating bridge comes into its own on technical removals in tight spaces. You can have 2 adjustable tie in points rigged to independent parts of the tree (or even different trees) and tie this into the bridge and be rock solid, still with your pole strap as a 3rd point. While solid 3D location, you can spin around to face any direction, 180 degrees with lots of freedom.

3: i've climbed on both but prefer 1/2" because all of my hardware is 1/2". If you get the thicker flipline you'll need a grab that will fit it and you miss out on some grab options. I use the microcender as my flipline adjuster, but they do make a bigger version of it. I think some adjusters only come in 1/2". There's no real strength benefit from the bigger line. Some might find the thicker line to be easier to handle I guess, but the 1/2" is just fine for me. Be sure to get one with a swivel on the snap, and have a think about whether you want a single snap or one at each end. If you want a single then 12'~15' should be fin even on fairly large redwoods, I use a 10' and that goes fine for me. If you want a double ended then you will want to tie into it with a unidirectional grab, or a prussik and you'll want a longer line.

Shaun


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## Gologit (Mar 18, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> sure enough.
> We are also friends with Jim and Jack.


 
There you go Randy...you can go down and help that guy thin his second growth. Exercise those yellow saws a little.


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## RandyMac (Mar 18, 2011)

Gologit said:


> There you go Randy...you can go down and help that guy thin his second growth. Exercise those yellow saws a little.


 
Limby poles in the rain, been there. 
I think a beer or two at the Vance maybe.:msp_biggrin:
It would be a good work out for the PM850.

Might have a line on something for you.


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## norcalshoot (Mar 18, 2011)

imagineero, Thanks thats what I was looking for. Reading around this forum I see a lot of people say butt straps are the way to go and much more comfortable but the guy helping me out says he hates them and leg straps are the way to go. 
Does anyone have experience with the new climb right climbers? the gaffs look rounded at the point but haven't seen them in person.


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## Gologit (Mar 18, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> Limby poles in the rain, been there.
> I think a beer or two at the Vance maybe.:msp_biggrin:
> It would be a good work out for the PM850.
> 
> Might have a line on something for you.


 
Beats doing dog hair in the snow.

Beer at the Vance? How 'bout straight shots at the Ivanhoe?

Let me know on the saw...no rush...I can wait for something good.


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## beastmaster (Mar 19, 2011)

Theres a certain knack it takes to get up a 5 ft tree or even 3 ft one on spurs. You have to develop a whipping motion with your lanyard so it climbs up the opposite side of where your gaffed in at. Just learning that and making it up 40 ft makes or breaks lots of new climber on big conifers.
If they had had big shots and I knew SRT, 20 something years ago I probably never would have learned how to gaff up a tree. I'm old and lazy but I would learn how to use a bigshot and climb a single rope to get in them trees. Hey how tall are them redwoods on your property? beastmaster


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## norcalshoot (Mar 20, 2011)

I will look into the srt. they guy teaching me is a spur guy only. our redwoods are normal height for a 2-3 foot redwood. I don't know exact height. our few bigger ones that would be tall have all had the tops blown out at one time so they are not as tall as they could be. You could definably fined higher redwoods if you are just looking for a big tree to climb


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## Fireaxman (Mar 22, 2011)

Probably lotsa folks be glad to trade you some SRT experience for some hang time in one of your "Redweeds". Me for one. I'm planning to be in your neighborhood in August. Be glad to stop by with a couple hundred feet of Snakebite and various ascenders and descenders. 

Also planning a climb in a 240+ foot Doug Fir with Rob and Jason of Pacific Tree Climbing Institute near Eugene, Oregon in August. Good experience if you are interested.


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## lostcoastland (Apr 1, 2011)

*Redwood Spikes*

Get the longest spikes you can get and a good handsaw,and a helmet with a chinstrap. get whatever steel core lanyard with a mechanical grab ( no prussik in case you cut that whats the point of having a wirecore, besides the flippyness) Get a weaver saddle with the buttstrap, a rope so you can tie in , and make sure to always be tied in with the wire core when your cutting. and never cut through your hinge when topping trees. Also a folding polesaw such as the longboy aloows you to advance ropes and cut branches all the way to the skinny tops. Make sure your cuts are flush so they dont sprout. Never do anything that doesnt feel right...dont climb out on forks unless you tie them together..it takes along time to be safe and actually be worth money people are paying you ..and remember Lion Tailing or Humboldt Palming trees looks cool and " Makes a big difference" but theres alot to learn about INTERGRITY . You need to formulate your own image by doing good work so you build a lasting impression. Those sprouts come quick and any bad cuts will need to be redone in a few years..for the ocean views ect....and dont spike firs you have to learn to climb them with ropes and deal with the sap ect..unless its a removal..


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 1, 2011)

I sense your need to chime in.
Jeff :msp_sneaky:


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## lostcoastland (Apr 1, 2011)

Yup


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## norcalshoot (Apr 2, 2011)

Lostcoastland thanks for the info. When you say get the longest spurs you can find, Do you think that the climb right tree climbers with 2 5/8" spurs is long enough? A steel core flipline is what i am after. have you had good luck with the 1/2? or is it worth the extra 10 bucks for a 5/8? I barrow a new 3/4 x 18' steel core but I would have to buy a mechanical grab for it, Which cost almost as much as a whole steel core lanyard kit in 1/2". 
Thanks again for the response everyone!


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## Nailsbeats (Apr 2, 2011)

5/8" Wire Core has a much better meat and potatoes feel if you know what I mean. You'll know you got something there when you flip it.

I was just in your neck of the woods in early January, was looking for any chance to climb too. I actually met Jerry Beranek out there in Fort Bragg and picked up some videos from him. I would have climbed with you in a heart beat, granted I've never climbed a standing Redwood, but climbing a different type of tree is no big deal if you know the basics you can feel the rest out.


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## sgreanbeans (Apr 3, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> I was waitin' on that.:msp_biggrin:
> 
> Welcome to AS.
> Do you drink beer?


 
LOL, I was wondering that myself, knowing you were leading him in!
I have pics of my kids in front of General Sherman at Sequoia Kings. 
Amazing


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## lostcoastland (May 8, 2011)

norcalshoot said:


> I barrow a new 3/4 x 18' steel core but I would have to buy a mechanical grab for it, Which cost almost as much as a whole steel core lanyard kit in 1/2".


 
Dude you gotta be a beast to climb with a 3/4 18' flipline..thats complete overkill for 3rd and 4th growth. If you did have a tree that big the old growth climbers would use two flip lines so they could work one while supported by the other. The hardest time ive had climbing was the first 20' of a 6 or 8 foot across RW with bark about 6 inches thick and you end up circling the tree stripping the bark off eating sh*t until you finally are clear enough to flip your line over the more compact upper bark. usually its easiest to spike little rw's and shoot the bigger ones with a big shot...In Beraneks book some guys actually used chokers as fliplines and then rap'd out perhaps thats where they figured out the flippyness of the steel cable. That was a different kind of tree work and thats not really what you'll be getting into these days. Redwoods are a treat to climb like a big teddy bear compared to the rock hard sappy firs, pines, madrones and oaks that lay ahead if you continue to climb in the area...look out for weakly attached suckers that grow off of rotted old stumps....that should be plenty of info to get you into a tree..remember we learn from our mistakes so error on the side of caution:msp_thumbup:


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## beastmaster (May 8, 2011)

I use to cliimb 70 to 80in. dbh Pondarosa pines no problem using home made 1" three strand rope with a 1/4 in cable in it. I preferred the bigger heaver line because you could get a better whipping motion going. You need to learn to whip with both hands on a tree that big. It is a little tiring, but works well so long as there isn't a lot of stubs for your line to get stuck on.
I would have a guy on the ground letting me know what obstacles were in my way on the back side of the tree.
Now that I look back I guess it did kick your butt. You have to have a lot of slack in your lanyard to whip that rope around. That means your arms are holding up a lot of weight most the time. If I had only known about big shots and advance climbing tech. back then, I probably wouldn't hurt so much today. Beastmaster


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## norcalshoot (May 10, 2011)

The 3/4 x 18 is one of those yale maxi lines i think. I havent bought any gear yet I am waiting for tax returns and they seem to be taking their sweet time with giving mine to me. I am going to get a 1/2" kit from wespur when I put the order in i think. thanks for all the info guys it all helps


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