# Echo CS-360T



## Cliff R (Feb 27, 2008)

I've been running this saw nearly every day for several weeks. To be perfectly honest, I'm just not overly impressed with it. It is supposed to be Echo's answer to the MS200T, or Husky 338XPT.......I don't think so?

Anyhow, for those thinking of saving a couple hundred dollars and coming up with a rival to those saws, spend the extra money!

Here's what I have found:

This is a very high rpm saw, but pulls down easily in the cut. 

It will barely manage the 14" bar, 12" would be better.

I absolutely HATE the built in rev limiter, it makes the saw difficult, if not near impossible to set the high speed mixture screw.

As you lean it up to improve rpms and power, the rev limiting module makes it start "4 stroking". The module also takes over when you are cutting small limbs/light load, fooling the tuner into thinking you've got enough fuel going to it. 

I guess they tried to run these saws somewhat lean, for EPA reasons, and the rev limiting feature is supposed to save the piston? I can say this for certain, if I had left the factory limiting caps in place, we would have already "toasted" the piston. The leanest setting I can come up with is over one half turn RICHER than the limiting cap would allow!

Anyhow, overall it's OK, decent "grunt" for a piston ported saw, starts easily, and idles perfectly, but really doesn't have any more power than either one of my Pro Mac top handle saws. I actually think my converted to top handle and "modified" PM330 will out cut it.

We really like the other Echo saws that we own, the 510's are among my favorites, but even those saws should be limited to an 18" bar, 16" would be ideal.

The only good thing I can saw about the CS-360T, is that it cuts 3 times faster than the CS-300 and CS-301's we've owned. I could go back in the house an drink a cup of coffee and have a bowl of cereal waiting for the 300/301 to cut thru an 8" limb!........Cliff


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## yophilly (May 5, 2009)

Hey cliff, I'm a newb here.....I just bought a 360T used and It bogs when I hit the throttle....also a little hard to start. I've been searchibg for how to remove the caps on the hi/lo adjustment screws to no avail. Can I just screw a drywall screw in the plastic caps and pop them out? Do they have to go back in after adjustment?

I'm a car guy and understand tuning and engines in general, but new to tuning chainsaws.

Thanks, Dave.


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## Cliff R (May 5, 2009)

Yes, that's how I got them out on ours. You are lucky, mine would barely stay running right out of the box. 

The rev limiter makes it somewhat difficult to set the "H" speed screw. I'd take it pretty rich then slowly bring it in making cuts after each adjustment. It will go on the rev limiter just about the same time that you find the most ideal high speed setting, so be careful not to continue to lean it out.

I've logged quite a few hours on ours, and it still runs flawlessly, PLENTY of power, and no "death rattle" as of yet!......Cliff


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## yophilly (May 5, 2009)

Will the screws stay in adjustment like a normal carb. or do the caps have to go back on to prevent them from backing off?

Also, I assume that loosening (counter-clockwise) the screw richens the mixture?

Thanks again.


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## kruege84 (May 5, 2009)

Hey yophilly, welcome to the site!! 

Thanks for the review Cliff. I've been looking into top handles recently and was looking at that model as a potential option. As I wouldn't be using is day in and day out, I'm a bit hesitant to drop $600 on a 200T. How do you think it would stand up to one of the less expensive Stihl or Husky models? Your talk about the rev limiter and carb being too lean from the factory has me thinking I should stick with Sithl.


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## Cliff R (May 5, 2009)

The 200T is the "Cadillac" of small top handle saws, always has been. No one else has managed to pack that much saw into such a little square shape to date.

The Echo has excellent power, although I've never time cut it against a 200T, it ain't that far behind it. Runs up near 14,000rpm's, plenty of "grunt" as well. I've tasked it with some pretty big jobs to date, and have ran it long enough to know it's going to hold up just fine. It is considerably bulkier and probably a bit heavier than a 200T or 338 Husqvarna, but for less than half the price, it fits my line-up quite well as I don't use a top handle saw nearly as much as the smaller rear handle saws......Cliff


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## Brian S (May 5, 2009)

Cliff, I don't get it.

First you were not impressed with the saw and said it was down on power and could barely pull 14" bar.

Now it has "excellent" power.

What gives?


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## Fish (May 5, 2009)

There is a gap of a year or so from his first post.
Another thread he went into detail on how he re-engineered it a bit, you might
do a search on posts by him to read the details.


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## Rftreeman (May 5, 2009)

I love my cs-300 with it's tiny 12" bar but I really love my 200t with it's 16' bar.

All this talk about rev limiters, by the time the EPA gets done we'll be back to cutting with cross saws.........


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## kruege84 (May 5, 2009)

Fish said:


> There is a gap of a year or so from his first post.
> Another thread he went into detail on how he re-engineered it a bit, you might
> do a search on posts by him to read the details.



Nice catch, Fish. I completely missed the date.


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## Cliff R (May 6, 2009)

Correct, my initial observations with the CS-360T were reflected in the first post. If you go on and read other posts we've made about the CS-360T, you will notice that I cut the muffler in half, removed the catalyst, and opened up the internal ports considerably. MIG'd it back together and WOW what a difference! That was a BIG wake up call for the saw. In addition, I figured out how to correctly adjust the high speed screw without being miss-led by the rev limiter coming in.

Finally, the biggest improvement of all was getting a REAL chain for it. The factory chain was horrible, and really not letting the saw show it's potential. 

I've since went on to muffler mod our CS-510, which put it on par with our Husqvarna 55, where it matched it's performance doing some timed cuts. It seems some of the Echo models are pretty restricted in the muffler. Just a few days ago I speed tested our CS-370, Husqvarna 435 and the CS-400 in the same log. The muffler modded 370 outran the stock 400.....Cliff


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## mountainlake (May 6, 2009)

Brian S said:


> Cliff, I don't get it.
> 
> First you were not impressed with the saw and said it was down on power and could barely pull 14" bar.
> 
> ...



Must be practicing for politics. Steve


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## yophilly (May 6, 2009)

So I pulled the plugs out of my saw yesterday and fattened up the mixture. Runs great, no more bog and I think I'm done. Clean the saw, a quick sharpen, and pack it away until sunday.

Now I read this morning about muffler mods! Cliff, you're gonna make me start cutting into this thing aren't you?

This site is great, I would have fumbled forever. Thanks.


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## Cliff R (May 6, 2009)

You'll need a MIG welder to put it back together. I used a really fine hacksaw blade to separate it into two halves. Once apart there is a "can" inside with a catalyst and 4 small exit holes. The can holds a large catalyst material. I removed the catalyst and opened up all 4 holes to 5/16". The exit hole of the muffler was left stock but I did modify the deflector just a tad. 

Noticable difference. Right after I finished the muffler mod and bought a real chain for it, we had a big storm go thru here and take down hundreds of trees. I was hired by a contractor who bid removing a HUGE Beech tree from a nearby property. My job was cutting it up and taking down the remaining part of the trunk, about 20' long and nearly 30" across. He had a dump truck, front loader and two helpers. I cut up almost the entire tree with the CS-360T, and kept everyone busy loading brush and small limbs. I ran the 360 right down to the main trunk of the tree where I finished it up with the larger saws. Even the contractor I was working with commented on how fast the little top handle Echo was. 

I've been running the crap out of it ever since, trying to get it to develope a "death rattle", all it does it exactly what it's supposed to, and hasn't given me any problems in any area......Cliff


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## Urban Forestry (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanx for the info cliff. lookin forward to tryin it out. I've been using my 360t for 3 years now and it still works great! with the mods u gave i bet it will scream. I think the 360's are well worth the money. Ya you do sacrifce a little bit of weight goin with echo but for the 300$'s in savings......

I use the saw everyday and because of how well the small guy ran i went out and bought some larger Echo saws. Does the muffler mod work with pretty much all models? I would like to try it on my cs400. thanx


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## Cliff R (Feb 19, 2010)

So far I've seen gains from modding all of them, except for the older reed valve top handles and the CS-670 and CS-6700's. They don't appear to be too restricted by the stock mufflers, at least in comparison to the smaller saws.

The CS-510 is the sleeper in the Echo line-up. After a minor muffler mod it outran my Shindaiwa 488 by quite a margin, and is equally as fast as my closed port Husqvarna 55.

The CS-370/CS-400's are easy to muffler mod, as the catalyst sits in a big "can" at the entrance to the muffler. I remove it, then open up the exit holes out of the can some. I also open up the muffler exit hole slightly, and modify the deflector.

With muffler mods, it is best to sneak up on things, rather than just making HUGE holes in them and end up with a loud saw that may be slower than when you started dinking with it.

Keep in mind here, that most of us are working these saws, and only want to make them efficient, not so darned loud you can't hear anything for days after using one of them!.....Cliff


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## gman916 (Nov 23, 2011)

Hate to rekindle an old post but...

I recently picked up a CS-360T, in the aftermath of our pre-Halloween snow storm in southern New England. I wanted a Husky but, they were all out of stock and this was really my only option. I've mostly lived with large saws all my life and have always wanted to add a top handle to my fleet...and the work left by this storm more than justified the purchase.

And now to the point of my post...

Since owning and running the saw almost daily in the past few weeks, I've brought it back to the dealer twice for carb adjustments. The first adjustment was the most needed...the saw was way too lean...bumped the rev limiter constantly...and you had to really work the throttle to get it to accelerate cleanly off idle. After this first adjustment, the saw operated much better but, not perfect. The high rpm seemed spot on but, the low idle was too high and would cause the chain to free wheel intermittently. I again returned to the dealer and asked them to correct the problem, which they did at no charge and the saw seems to operate ok (but haven't had a chance to test it yet...just had it re-tuned today). I've resisted adjusting the saw myself because, I wanted to give the dealer an opportunity to get it running decent, as this is a new saw. Although the dealer is great, I'm done screwing around and will take tuning into my own hands.

BTW...I ran the snot out of the factory chain, mainly because I hate throwing away money on something that isn't broke. After wearing the chain down, I didn't even attempt to sharpen and threw it out. Installed an Oregon chain and that made a huge difference in cutting!!!

Now back to the point....hoping Cliff can chime in here...

I understand how to remove the limiter caps but, do you have to reinstall them after adjustment? Do the caps, help hold the adjustment screws in place or are they only there to restrict the amount of adjustment? Seems some reinstall them and some don't...

I've searched several of Cliff's posts but, can't seem to find his secret to tuning the high rpm around the rev limiter. Can anyone offer any suggestions?

Muffler mod will be done soon but, want to make sure I've competently tuned this saw before, getting too crazy.

Thanks in advance and hope everyone has a Happy Turkey day!!!


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## Cliff R (Nov 23, 2011)

Remove the limiter caps, they are not needed. I'd save them just in case you would have to return it for warranty work which is unlikely. 

They are easily removed by engaging them with a sheet metal or drywall screw, and pulling them off the mixture screws.

With the engine fully warmed up, set the idle speed slow enough so the chain isn't turning.

Turn the "L" screw clockwise (lean) until the engine idles smooth and maximum rpms. If you go further than this it should idle down and start loosing rpm's/stalling out.

Back up the "L" screw from the highest/smoothest rpm point until the engine just slows down every so slightly. 

Back out the "H" screw and do a few full throttle tests for a second or two, adjust until the engine slows down and looses power. 

Here's the tricky part with a saw having a rev limiter. Start leaning it up (clockwise) and after each adjustment do a quick full throttle no-load test. It should be missing (four-stroking) heavily. Continue leaning it up until the engine sees pretty good rpm's but still four strokes. 

Make a test cut. With each test cut, remove the load in the cut for a brief moment and the saw should immediately "four stroke".

Here's where the problem lies with the CS-360T. The rev limiter creates the same condition as a well tuned "H" speed screw. 

The best advice I can give here, is to er slightly rich, and sneak up on the ideal setting for the "H" screw. You are looking for best power in the cut, not maximum rpm's at no load speed.

There is a cross-over point between the ideal "H" speed screw setting and when the rev limiter comes in with that particular saw. The way I find the best setting is to start out really rich, make some cuts, and continue to lean it up till it runs the best in the cut. If I think it's hitting the rev limiter instead of four stroking from the correct "H" speed setting, I'll turn the "H" speed screw slightly rich, to see if it looses power. 

In any and all cases, set the saw for best power in the cut, at the richest setting. Keep in mind that oil is carried to the internals with the fuel, more fuel means more lubricant. Lean settings also create higher EGT's, high rpm's, and between lack of lubrication, high piston speeds, and high EGT's, it's pretty easy to "smear" some aluminum over the ring(s) on the exhaust side, a common problem we see here with saws which are ran to lean for whatever reason.

A muffler mod is a big wake up call for that particular saw, plan on setting the carb all over again after the cat is removed and the muffler opened up some.......Cliff


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## gman916 (Nov 23, 2011)

Cliff,

Thank you very much!!!!

When I get home tonight, the limiter caps will come off for good...and will begin learing to tune this saw.

Do you tune by ear?...or use an RPM meter to assist? I've mainly tuned by ear but, have an RPM meter and usually use it to see how close I am on my other saws. Just wondering how handy this might be on this saw, taking the rev limiter into consideration.

jon


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## Cliff R (Nov 23, 2011)

No tach is really needed. We're after best power in the cut, without going to lean with the high speed fuel delivery. I've been working on small power equipment since the late 1970's, never had a single problem nailing down the tune on any 2 cycle engine. Rev limiters throw a slight curve at you, but if you start out noticably rich and down on power some, then sneak up on the best setting by leaning it up and making cuts, the rev limiter really isn't a problem......Cliff


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## s219 (Nov 23, 2011)

As far as I know, the stock Echo chains are made by Oregon. Not the best, but still worth sharpening.

If in doubt about the need for limiter caps -- because in some cases they provide the friction to hold the screws in place when there are no springs -- you can cut a little short piece of fuel line and slide it over the threads of the screws before turning them in. It will compress and should be just enough friction to keep the screws in place. I used this trick on my weed-whacker carb recently.


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## gman916 (Nov 23, 2011)

Perfect...thanks again, Cliff!!!

Have a happy T-day!

jon


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## gman916 (Nov 23, 2011)

s219 said:


> As far as I know, the stock Echo chains are made by Oregon. Not the best, but still worth sharpening.
> 
> If in doubt about the need for limiter caps -- because in some cases they provide the friction to hold the screws in place when there are no springs -- you can cut a little short piece of fuel line and slide it over the threads of the screws before turning them in. It will compress and should be just enough friction to keep the screws in place. I used this trick on my weed-whacker carb recently.



Thanks for the tip...

Yes, the OEM Echo chain was made by Oregon....but it is a anti-kick back safety style chain. Apparently, at least in CT, dealers either have to sell saws with the anti-kick back chain installed or the bar tip anti-kick back device installed......one or the other, the saw must leave the store with some anti-kick back device. When I bought the saw, it had the anti-kick chain installed and they gave me the tip guard (which I threw out as soon as I arrived home). I guess I would have caused less confusion, if I was more specific...

Happy T-day!


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## miking (Nov 23, 2011)

I have had those screws vibrate a little out of tune when I left those caps off, so I trim the tabs off and put them back in. Problem solved.


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## Lawn Goat (Jan 9, 2012)

*Cliff, what about pulling the can*

Hi Cliff, What do you think about pulling the can on the 360t muffler. I pulled the rev lim caps and have the muffler in half. Bent back the end of the can and gutted it. From reading your posts I expected to see a few holes on the side of this can and it looks different from what I expected. I was going to put a few holes in it, but I'm wondering what will happen if I just pull it period. Any feedback from you would be appreciated. Thanks, sean


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## Cliff R (Jan 9, 2012)

I didn't remove the "can" on mine, but I did open up the holes in it, and remove all the material in the can. I'm pretty sure I made the holes 5/16", and open up the exit hole some as well, but retained the deflector.....Cliff


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## Lawn Goat (Jan 10, 2012)

I decided to drill in two 3/16" holes on the can and keep it in there. Will get this thing back together and see what happens... also replacing chain with a more aggressive one. Sean


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## Lawn Goat (Jan 29, 2012)

I made the holes 5/16 instead of 3/16, welded the muffler back together and roughly tuned the saw... a lot of power now. I did not replace the chain, but did sharpen her up real good and made a few cuts... I'm impressed. It should run nice after a better tuning. I plan to clear some fallen trees behind my property tomorrow and will put the saw to the test. 

So far I have to say that the mods are a definite way to bring this saw to life. I do have to add that sawing/ welding mufflers is not easy for the novice... Im not skilled enough and ended up having my buddy weld it back together. He had a bit of trouble welding it without melting it and he is an x-ray weld certified steamfitter. So to those who do not weld well... this gutting the muffler may not be a good thing to attempt. In the future I will probably just drill some holes through the muffler and see if that works... alot easier if it does work.

Any way... it has better pull than than a 192 and after a better tuning, will probably keep up with the 200t. I will have to see how it does after some long term use and from what Cliff has posted, feel this saw should be okay for the long haul.


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## Cliff R (Jan 29, 2012)

I haven't been able to kill mine, and have really been trying to since PGG told me it would quickly develope a "death rattle". Since we have ran the crap out of it now for several seasons, and it continues to run flawlessly, I'm wondering how a guy could smoke the P/C on one?

I just outfitted mine with a new Oregon 14" bar and chain, had some Lowe's gift cards to use up. I has plenty of power for the 14" bar, put a couple of tanks thru it the last few days on a new job we started, cleaning up 60 acres worth of tops from a recent logging operation.

I did find out the hard way that it hasn't been cold enough here in Ohio to venture into the woods. We BARELY got back to the road, it's nothing but a mud hole everywhere. Got to be the wettest/warmest Winter in my 52 years of living here....Cliff


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## Lawn Goat (Jan 29, 2012)

I tuned this saw up and put it work today. I have to admit it buries the 192t... It does not sound as pretty as a 200t, but performance-wise, I also have to admit... it kept up with it.

All in all, the 360t with mods is a completely different saw from stock 360t. I feel the saw is a good choice if you can do the mods, if you can not do the mods, Stihl may be a better choice.

I was seriously suprised and impressed.

Thanks for the help Cliff.

This weather is strange. They say it will be like Florida up here in a hundred years and I believe it. I was just in the back of my house and it was a mudpit... Could not imagine trying to go into the woods.


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## Cliff R (Jan 29, 2012)

Glad that I could be of assistance. If we have Florida like weather up here in 100 years, there woln't be any need to burn firewood, so my wood cutting days would be over with. I certainly hope I'm around to see it!.....Cliff


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## NORMZILLA44 (Jan 29, 2012)

200t is outstanding, but if I was going to buy a top saw I think it would be the echo cs 341 or 340 forget exact model. But We got one for my buddy who is strictly a Stihl man, and he wont run another top handle other than that Echo. Built like the old school top saws. Nimble powerfull, and runs like a bastard.


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## GlynnC (Jan 29, 2012)

CliffR, I have an Echo CS-370 (bought new) and an Echo CS-346 (recently bought off CL for $15--bar oil was in gas tank--wouldn't run this way). Will removing the cat. converter and opening the deflector a little significantly increase muffler noise level? I ask this question on another thread and the response was "if a muff mod is done correctly, it shouldn't change the noise level much". I'm new in this area--a pretty good weed trimmer mechanic, but no experience changing mufflers. It appears the cat is somewhat easy to remove with screwdriver and needle nose pliers. I'm reading this will help saw performance, but how about the sound level?? Any info will be appreciated. Thanks


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## NORMZILLA44 (Jan 29, 2012)

Every dp muffler I have put on, ads noise, Makes sense to me with a extra exhaust port, or unchoking one.


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## mountainlake (Jan 30, 2012)

Lawn Goat said:


> I tuned this saw up and put it work today. I have to admit it buries the 192t... It does not sound as pretty as a 200t, but performance-wise, I also have to admit... it kept up with it.
> 
> All in all, the 360t with mods is a completely different saw from stock 360t. I feel the saw is a good choice if you can do the mods, if you can not do the mods, Stihl may be a better choice.
> 
> ...



When you go from 192t performance to 200t performance thats a LOT of gain with a muff modd, 
same thing with the CS370 and CS400 saws. What do you think 2fat? Steve


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## mountainlake (Jan 30, 2012)

GlynnC said:


> CliffR, I have an Echo CS-370 (bought new) and an Echo CS-346 (recently bought off CL for $15--bar oil was in gas tank--wouldn't run this way). Will removing the cat. converter and opening the deflector a little significantly increase muffler noise level? I ask this question on another thread and the response was "if a muff mod is done correctly, it shouldn't change the noise level much". I'm new in this area--a pretty good weed trimmer mechanic, but no experience changing mufflers. It appears the cat is somewhat easy to remove with screwdriver and needle nose pliers. I'm reading this will help saw performance, but how about the sound level?? Any info will be appreciated. Thanks



If you gut the cat and drill a couple extra holes out the front it will get loud, if you just enlarge the stock outlet hole with the deflector in place it wont be too bad. Steve


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## GlynnC (Jan 30, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> If you gut the cat and drill a couple extra holes out the front it will get loud, if you just enlarge the stock outlet hole with the deflector in place it wont be too bad. Steve



Thanks mountainlake--I think I'll start with just enlarging the outlet hole and go from there. I really don't want these saws to get to loud. I have a couple of Mac 10-10's that will wake the dead. These days I mostly use my saws for storm cleanup, and often am working close to others. I wear hearing protection but many times my working buddies don't.

Since I'm more experienced in the "weedeater" area, I may have to try a mod on one of my trimmers. I'm sure i have over 30 2-stroke pieces of equip--this could get interesting. Glynn


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## GlynnC (Jan 30, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> If you gut the cat and drill a couple extra holes out the front it will get loud, if you just enlarge the stock outlet hole with the deflector in place it wont be too bad. Steve



Echo cs-346----I enlarged the outlet hole in the plate between deflector and muffler to the size of the outlet hole in the muffler, screen still in place--and gave it a try. Not too loud yet!

I then drilled 4 3/16" holes through the cat until I hit free space (I don't know if the bit bottomed out on a baffle or the outside of the muffler--didn't drill through it). Tried again, still not too loud.

Have I accomplished anything yet? Sorry to keep at this, but I'm trying to learn here and appreciate help. Thanks! Glynn


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## GlynnC (Jan 31, 2012)

GlynnC said:


> Echo cs-346----I enlarged the outlet hole in the plate between deflector and muffler to the size of the outlet hole in the muffler, screen still in place--and gave it a try. Not too loud yet!
> 
> I then drilled 4 3/16" holes through the cat until I hit free space (I don't know if the bit bottomed out on a baffle or the outside of the muffler--didn't drill through it). Tried again, still not too loud.
> 
> Have I accomplished anything yet? Sorry to keep at this, but I'm trying to learn here and appreciate help. Thanks! Glynn



Step by step, and testing several times, I've removed the cat, opened the muff outlet about 1/4" in length, opened the plate between muffler and deflector to match outlet in muffler. I've had it out in the woods this morning, the saw runs great and the sound is still very acceptable so I'm stopping here. The pulled the sparkplug--color is good, will check after a couple more tanks. After I get a few hours on this saw, I may do the same thing to my Echo CS-370.

Thanks to those who helped out, and to the wealth of info. on AS. Glynn


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## jus2fat (Jan 31, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> When you go from 192t performance to 200t performance thats a LOT of gain with a muff modd,
> same thing with the CS370 and CS400 saws. *What do you think 2fat?* Steve


I would certainly agree..steve..!!

There's a BIG difference between a 192T and a 200T..

And just as with the Echos..a simple MM will add more power than most would think..!!

Thanks for asking..!!..

J2F


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## mountainlake (Jan 31, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> I would certainly agree..steve..!!
> 
> There's a BIG difference between a 192T and a 200T..
> 
> ...



I think the 200t comes with a opened up muff a will not have much gain, the 192 t should gain some but it's a 30cc open port motor. Steve


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## Cliff R (Feb 1, 2012)

Removing the cat and opening up the "can" and the exit hole for the CS-360T increases noise level some. I left the deflector in place on mine, and the "can" inside the muffler that held the catalyst material, hoping the mods would increase airflow and still diffuse the noise level some. It's noticable louder than before the mods, but not obxiously loud. At first I left the exit hole stock, then gently opened it up a tad a couple of times to see if it helped some, which it did. I still was very conservative with that deal. I'm not big into making a bunch of noise with any of my saws. They are work saws, most are stone stock, aside from the later model ones that used restrictive mufflers or CAT's to start with.

I still remember the day on the farm back in the late 1970's when my brother showed up with HUGE Mac he bought new. Pretty sure it was a PM800 or 850. In any case, it was a big yellow BEAST, heavy, no anti-vibe, and the loudest saw I've ever ran. My ears are still ringinng over 30 years later!

Cutting firewood and clearing trees is something that I thoroughly enjoy these days. To keep it an enjoyable experience I dump all the poor running or "junk" saws that I aquire, and certainly don't want any of them so loud you cringe when you have to use them!......Cliff


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## heyduke (Oct 28, 2012)

Interesting thread regarding top handled saws and muffler mods. I've owned and used 338xp's and several models of echos, 3400, 341, 330t and 360t. I've also used the stihls from the old all metal models (their most powerful) to the 200t's. Of all these saws, the echo cs330's and 360's are my favorites. I've been using the pair i have now for over 5 years and i've never had a problem. The powerful husky's have a front mounted carb which moves the handle back two inches and wrecks the balance. They are more hazardous because when you saw thru a limb, one handed, the weight of the bar makes it impossible to release the throttle. They also tire the wrist because of the awkward balance. My experience with the stihls has been a lack of longevity. I've had problems with the mufflers coming loose, but what do you expect for $600?

on a job i usually have one top handle for climbing and another by the chipper and often one for limbing on the ground. For all these applications, especially the climbing saw, the most important things are sure starting on the first pull and a sharp chain. If i have limbs larger than eight inches, send up the 272.

anyway, last week i decided to try the muffler mod on the cs 330t. I removed the catalyst honeycomb from the can and opened the outlet port with a 9/32 drill, but didn't open the muffler body since i have no mig welder. I put it back together and tried to get the mixtures, lo and hi, adjusted correctly. The users manual says to adjust the mixtures so that the saw will run between 13,500 and 14,500 rpm. I could get mine up to about 12,500 rpm, but it ran poorly between 8000 and 10,000 rpm, no matter what i did. It seems to me that particular rpm range is the most important since it is the band used when cutting. I took the muffler apart again and realized that i had neglected the plate and gasket beneath the spark arrestor screen. I drilled another 9/32” hole thru those and used a file to smooth them into the existing aperture. after that i was able to get the saw running well from 8000 to 11,500 rpm, cut some cookies off of 6” balsam poplar, fast and easy. These results may be different from others since i live at 6000 feet altitude and 2strokes work differently up here.

Was it worth the trouble? Hard to say. The saw cut well before. It may take some time at the show to tell for sure. A sharp chain seems to be more significant. i didn't notice any change in sound level.


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## bikemike (Dec 28, 2012)

*cs 360T power issues*

I bought the 360 t cause there is no replacement for displacement shure the rule of thumb is the bigger the bore/stroke the less rpm you will get. All people say punch out exhaust well it does help in different operating ranges, but I found most the issue is the cat. Not so much in how big the exhaust outlet is. What I came across might mess with your head, yeah the head on your shoulders lol. The intake end of you saw is the big issue the air filter box has a very narrow passage between the two halves. The outer shell furthest from carb has a air diverter ridge about 3/32 tall that can be cut out with a dremel or hobby knife to reduce restriction on the half that meets up to carb adapter has a thick section of plastic that is raised up about a strong 1/16 inch that can be removed and your filter box is instanly less restrictive allowing more air to get to your carb . The black adaptor that holds the filter to the carb is a issue with your top end power too. Smooth out the inner bore so it does not have its ventricle shape like the inner bore of a carb would have. By doing that will prevent your engine from pulsing near your top end rpm range I have done this to my saw and its not even 2 tanks old it has really came to life from doing that and I'm still running rich on fuel and oil for break inn reasons. Ill post pics after I figure out this forum site


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## stubnail67 (Dec 28, 2012)

*chomp chomp*

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## heyduke (Dec 29, 2012)

bikemike said:


> I bought the 360 t cause there is no replacement for displacement shure the rule of thumb is the bigger the bore/stroke the less rpm you will get. All people say punch out exhaust well it does help in different operating ranges, but I found most the issue is the cat. Not so much in how big the exhaust outlet is. What I came across might mess with your head, yeah the head on your shoulders lol. The intake end of you saw is the big issue the air filter box has a very narrow passage between the two halves. The outer shell furthest from carb has a air diverter ridge about 3/32 tall that can be cut out with a dremel or hobby knife to reduce restriction on the half that meets up to carb adapter has a thick section of plastic that is raised up about a strong 1/16 inch that can be removed and your filter box is instanly less restrictive allowing more air to get to your carb . The black adaptor that holds the filter to the carb is a issue with your top end power too. Smooth out the inner bore so it does not have its ventricle shape like the inner bore of a carb would have. By doing that will prevent your engine from pulsing near your top end rpm range I have done this to my saw and its not even 2 tanks old it has really came to life from doing that and I'm still running rich on fuel and oil for break inn reasons. Ill post pics after I figure out this forum site



Good work, these are good saws out of the box but have ample potential for mods. I'll look at my intake side and see what can be done. I've been using echo top handle saws for many years, 3400's to 360's. You can't break them unless you run over them with the chipper or truck.


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## bikemike (Dec 29, 2012)

*echo cs 360t intake*

i have made a couple minor changes to the intake end of my saw and it has worked for the better. :msp_thumbup: I have boared out the airfilter adaptor to a smooth bore and to close match the casting bore of the carb resulting in smoother more direct air flow to feed the carb. this made a big difference in how this ran in the upper operating rpm range under load. the air box im not fond of being it has a narrow air passage that i was able to open up a little bit by removing the material that is highlighted in blue. my saw exhaust is is not drilled out, it has had the cat removed and spacer plate cut to match the exhaust diverter


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## PainAndMurphy (Feb 10, 2013)

bikemike said:


> i have made a couple minor changes to the intake end of my saw and it has worked for the better. :msp_thumbup: I have boared out the airfilter adaptor to a smooth bore and to close match the casting bore of the carb resulting in smoother more direct air flow to feed the carb. this made a big difference in how this ran in the upper operating rpm range under load. the air box im not fond of being it has a narrow air passage that i was able to open up a little bit by removing the material that is highlighted in blue. my saw exhaust is is not drilled out, it has had the cat removed and spacer plate cut to match the exhaust diverter




Just to let you know, I think that the material you ground down inside the (white) air filter is there to encourage the air to 'come' from all around the filter span so it won't suck most of the air from just around the hole, get me? I checked flow of the filter as is, and I don't know if it needs any mod.. MHO. 

I have did a Cat mod + Carb limiters removal.. fair enough. It accels pretty quick, and revs as high as my other 020T/200T's.. I sti(H)l prefer the throttle response of the STIHLs, but I love the 360T's quieter nature for certain works. 



BTW - I'd make a custom chainsaw of an ECHO SRM-4000 if I could.. the quietest engine ever!!


Jo.


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## greagin (May 23, 2015)

Can you run a regular size 3/8" .050 chain on a 360t or does it have to be a low profile chain?


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## Cliff R (May 23, 2015)

Not sure, but the 3/8" LP is a very good set-up for these smaller saws, IMHO.

I can get an Oregon two pack of them just about anyplace for under $25, and they are very fast cutting chains and stay sharp in dirty material. Do NOT get the chains with the safety feature, they don't cut as well and it's not needed.

I'm still running my CS-360T, and it hasn't developed a "death rattle" yet, for those that are taking notes.

I am getting close to retirement and will be moving to a warmer climate, so in the near future will be down-sizing and selling off most of my collection. I'll run them in the Trading Post before any attempts to Ebay them........Cliff


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## bikemike (May 23, 2015)

Cliff R said:


> Not sure, but the 3/8" LP is a very good set-up for these smaller saws, IMHO.
> 
> I can get an Oregon two pack of them just about anyplace for under $25, and they are very fast cutting chains and stay sharp in dirty material. Do NOT get the chains with the safety feature, they don't cut as well and it's not needed.
> 
> ...


Thats what i been using on my saw cheep and they work thats rhe ssme chain in the vid too


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## bikemike (May 23, 2015)

Cliff R said:


> Not sure, but the 3/8" LP is a very good set-up for these smaller saws, IMHO.
> 
> I can get an Oregon two pack of them just about anyplace for under $25, and they are very fast cutting chains and stay sharp in dirty material. Do NOT get the chains with the safety feature, they don't cut as well and it's not needed.
> 
> ...


Cant blame you one bit for moving to a warmer climate. What you asking for the echo360t without the rattle of death


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## bikemike (May 23, 2015)

Cliff R said:


> Not sure, but the 3/8" LP is a very good set-up for these smaller saws, IMHO.
> 
> I can get an Oregon two pack of them just about anyplace for under $25, and they are very fast cutting chains and stay sharp in dirty material. Do NOT get the chains with the safety feature, they don't cut as well and it's not needed.
> 
> ...


Yeah a while back it was you posting about the echo 360 thinking it was a turd and gunna blow up soon?


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## greagin (May 23, 2015)

Just wondering as I think I ran a regular chain the other day on mine and wanted to make sure I didn't mess anything up! Sprocket, bar tip, etc


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## bikemike (May 23, 2015)

greagin said:


> Just wondering as I think I ran a regular chain the other day on mine and wanted to make sure I didn't mess anything up! Sprocket, bar tip, etc


I have not tried a more aggressive larger chain on mine id like to get a pico stihl chain one day cause the full chisle low pro does cut very nice. But yeah the dirty wood is better off with a semi chiz chain.


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## KenJax Tree (May 23, 2015)

Regular 3/8 won't work...the sprocket in the bars are different. The rim and sprockets are also different but they will work but the bar sprocket will not.


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## bikemike (May 23, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> Regular 3/8 won't work...the sprocket in the bars are different. The rim and sprockets are also different but they will work but the bar sprocket will not.


Makes sence il stick with low pro on my saw.


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