# cold hydraulics



## treevet (Dec 10, 2009)

Any advice for speeding up the warming up of hydraulics during a real cold day. Someone told me if you leave the outriggers down and leave the boom up a little (bucket or crane truck) that the withdrawing of the rigs and/or the stowing of the boom gets the hyd. moving and expedites warming up of the unit.


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## Deets066 (Dec 10, 2009)

Time, the only thing i found to warm them up is run time, but if you can do something that is easy for the machine to do that is easier on them.


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## treevet (Dec 10, 2009)

Deets066 said:


> Time, the only thing i found to warm them up is run time, but if you can do something that is easy for the machine to do that is easier on them.



That is why it seemed to make sense that to withdraw the out riggers and lower the boom would be easy but not sold on that it will aid the more difficult movements when cold and sluggish.


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## Frank Boyer (Dec 10, 2009)

Doing something that creates pressure generates heat. Going up and down with the stabilizers is simple and safe.


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## treevet (Dec 10, 2009)

gonna give it a go tomorrow then. Just having them sit there on a real cold day with the pto engaged just doesn't get it until you start moving around.

My biggest bucket (75') was a snail today on the lower boom movement. Took forever to get improvement.


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## kingston (Dec 10, 2009)

A simple heat exhanger could be added to the hyd. oil tank, heat tape and a insulating jacket seems simpler, plug it in over night when you plug in your block heater.


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

All good ideas and thanks, but alas, I have no electric at my equipment storage. This is soon to be changed.

Maybe an electric blanket on a port. generator over the hyd. tank?


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## dingeryote (Dec 11, 2009)

treevet said:


> All good ideas and thanks, but alas, I have no electric at my equipment storage. This is soon to be changed.
> 
> Maybe an electric blanket on a port. generator over the hyd. tank?




Park it warm, insulated with a blanket and a tarp, and if ya get to it early enough you will be surpised how much of a difference it makes.
I like the electric Bankie under a tarp idea. I might have to use that.

If you can, park the rig outta the wind, as the exposed lines and cylinders will draw heat out and dump it into the moving air.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## tanker (Dec 11, 2009)

What are the max. rpm's for your pump?On my semi tractor,the max. is 1500 rpm.,a lot of times when it is real cold,I'll kick the pto. on 3-4 miles away from my delivery point and just keep geared down so that I don't exeed the max. and the system will be warmed up good by when I arrive. Scott


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> I like the electric Bankie under a tarp idea. I might have to use that.



Maybe a binkie in the rad. cap and a little snuggly bear under the fender


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

tanker said:


> What are the max. rpm's for your pump?On my semi tractor,the max. is 1500 rpm.,a lot of times when it is real cold,I'll kick the pto. on 3-4 miles away from my delivery point and just keep geared down so that I don't exeed the max. and the system will be warmed up good by when I arrive. Scott



another good idea to look into


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## dingeryote (Dec 11, 2009)

treevet said:


> Maybe a binkie in the rad. cap and a little snuggly bear under the fender





Can't hurt, but your 'Ol Lady might think ya popped a cork.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> Can't hurt, but your 'Ol Lady might think ya popped a cork.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



She's known that since highschool. No news there.

See yall tomorrow.


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## Richard C (Dec 11, 2009)

Greetings, Tell you what I did. I flushed the system using diesel. I drained the hydraulic. fluid filled with diesel, ran the hydraulic until warm than drained the system. Checked the screen and filled with fresh fluid. This was for my front end loader and 3 point. Lots of muck came out. 32 is the weight I have in it now. I live in the mountains between California and Nevada, it gets very cold here. The hydraulics work right away. Richard


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## gwiley (Dec 11, 2009)

My theory is that ensuring the cylinders are in a position to drive fluid out of attachments into the central system may help it warm up faster - the idea is that the hyd oil will not circulate out to the extremities as much but will stay closer to a heat source (on my bobcat the hyd pump and reservoir is tucked close to the engine).


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

That would conform with the opinion that the first movement should be an easier one.

Tried the Frank Boyer trick with putting up and down the riggers without hitting the ground while on the job and it seemed to work real good.

This was the smaller bucket (55') but i have had this one sluggish many times before and it worked right off the bat.


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## Rookie1 (Dec 11, 2009)

I was going to ask what the condition of the oil was and last time of filter replacement. I think in the end though your going to have slow moving hydraulics in the cold.


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

Rookie1 said:


> I was going to ask what the condition of the oil was and last time of filter replacement. I think in the end though your going to have slow moving hydraulics in the cold.



Both my units have clean filters in the fall and one has totally new fluid as we blew a pump last summer.

My crane truck is even slower than the buckets and you can go out for breakfast once you engage the pto and come back later.


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## Bigstumps (Dec 12, 2009)

Running any function over relief will warm the hydraulics quickest. Depending on how the system is designed there may be different reliefs for different functions or there may just be one overall system relief. The higher the relief setting that you are running over the more heat you will put in the system. You could run the outriggers up and hold the lever there once they come all the way in - the fluid will run over the relief as long as you hold the lever.


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## treevet (Dec 12, 2009)

I am all ears on all these posts bigstumps. Thanks, I am trying that next time. I think the coldest air is gone for a while.


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## treevet (Dec 12, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I'm not so sure his advice about running parts of the system to 'pop off' pressures is that wise when everything is real cold. I'm sure it does cause a faster warm up but how about damage to parts of the hyd system? Doesn't pass the sniff test with me.



I sure wouldn't do it on the boom like when bleeding the movements. There you have a bleeder valve open for safety(and to purge air from the fluid). But shouldn't like was mentioned, there be a bypass on overload on the end of the outrigger movements?


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## Bigstumps (Dec 12, 2009)

The main thing I would worry about with cold, thick, hydraulic fluid is cavitating (or starving) the hydraulic pump for oil. They won't handle that. It all depends where the pump is in relation to the tank and how large the suction hose from the tank to the pump is.

With a PTO pump it is usually well below the tank so it has good head pressure which helps. If you are running a Poney motor sometimes the pump is above the tank and the pump must pull the fluid up into it.

Once the pump starts it doesn't matter if a function is engaged or not, it will suck fluid from the tank. This is why you don't want to rev up the pump with cold/thick fluid.

I've never seen a truck that doesn't have reliefs on the downriggers - if it didn't something would explode when they got to the end of their stroke.

Reliefs are made to open and close - doesn't hurt a thing. Depending on where the reliefs are set and the flow of the system this will calculate to the required horsepower to make the relief open. You can hear a small poney motor change pitch under this load. This power that it takes to go over the relief puts the heat into the system.


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## treevet (Dec 13, 2009)

That makes sense.


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## arbor pro (Dec 15, 2009)

I use a magnetic heater on hydraulic reservoirs and oil pans. Leave plugged in overnight and the oil is ready to go when you are in the morning. If you don't have electricity at your lot, consider buying a small portable gas-powered generator. Fire up the generator when you get to your lot and by the time you get to the jobsite, your oil is warmer. Portable generator may come in handy for more than just running the magnetic heater - can use for electric tools, lights, etc.

I used to use this trick on truck and trailer hoists that would take FOREVER to lower back down via gravity when the temp was really cold out.


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## treevet (Dec 15, 2009)

I just got a real good price on a Honda ER 3000 yesterday and think I am going to get it.


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## ozarktreeman (Jan 2, 2010)

I would check the specs on your particular rig before doing this.But I have had the same problem in winter months.Talk to a guy for some parts last winter on my outriggers and ask him BTW unit running real slow when cold may need new controls unit.He ask me what type fluid I was running told him and he said NO!Change to ATF 2 parts kerosene.questioned him and he said do It.So I did and worked great,no problems no leaks sped the boom up.So now I change it out in cold months. But that is a skyworker unit. Worked for me. BTW does ATF fluid burn.LOL


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## HorseShoeInFork (Jan 3, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> I'm not so sure his advice about running parts of the system to 'pop off' pressures is that wise when everything is real cold. I'm sure it does cause a faster warm up but how about damage to parts of the hyd system? Doesn't pass the sniff test with me.


Believe it or not that is how a Case equipment manual tells you how to do it. It says to crowd the bucket and rev the engine. It doesn't work that great, but I understand the concept. I don't do it because it does sound bad and it is faster to just get on the machine and get to moving it. If there was an auxiliary hookup you could plumb back to the tank it might be better. Just an open unrestricted pipe to provide circulation. It would still take forever.


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## sefh3 (Jan 3, 2010)

Try one of thesehttp://www.jcwhitney.com/OIL_PAN_HEATER_KITS?ID=12;0;1101001648;0;100001;ProductName;4;0;0;0;2005253;0;0. 

Put it on your tank and you should be good to go.


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## treevet (Jan 3, 2010)

Yesterday it was 10 degrees when we started. The Hi Ranger warmed up in the hydraulics fairly quickly but the Dingo (almost new) didn't want to start. We finally got it to reluctantly start with a jump but it was real sluggish until it kicked. I guess my main cold weather problem is my big Teco bucket hydraulics.

Sefh3, we don't have any electric in our equipment yard. If I left a generator on it during the evening it would be bye bye by morning.


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## gulity1 (Jan 3, 2010)

I deal with this problem every day in the cold. I work on car haulers they have roughly a 30 gallon hyd tank and are always in the cold. We run from Texas to Alaska east to west and everywhere in the middle there are several options you have all have some kind of draw backs are listed next to 

Thin out the fluid with diesel about %5 for me its about 2 gallons to 30 gallon in tank-- possiable fire 
Change fluid to straight ATF -- expensive
Run PTO until fluid warms up-- Costs fuel

I have worked on all sides of this problem these are the only options that even seem close to being a long term "fix" although I have drained to two systems that had fluid I could set on fire--Scarey


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## Industry (Jan 24, 2010)

Do you have a set of quick disconnects for a hydraulic tool up next to the bucket? we use a short length of hydraulic hose and just let it circulate to warm up the system.


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