# Spikeless palm climbing



## Koa Man (Jan 31, 2010)

The photos below show how I now climb palms without using spikes if the trunk is pristine. On old palms that have been spiked dozens or hundreds of times, I still use spikes, since it is the fastest means of getting to the top if you don't have a lift.

I use the tree climbing stands that hunters use. I have a Summitt and an Amacker. The Amacker is shown in the photo and is the one I use the most since it is adjustable on the tree. Big help as the trunk usually gets smaller toward the top. On trunks with lights or other stuff on it, we pull up the strap on tree ladders. I have a total of 8 ladder sections, enough to cover 36 ft. 

Of course, the spider lift is my favorite way to climb palms.


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## 046 (Jan 31, 2010)

interesting that a climbing deer stand is a solution...


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## EdenT (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks Koa Man, couple of questions for you:

1. How does the climb rate with a hunting stand compare to spikes'n'belt?
2. Do the gripping teeth damage the 'bark' of the palms? 
3. What brand is your spider lift?

Normally to clean a Queen Palm it takes me 25 minutes being:5-10 minutes to suit up. 15-20 to climb, clean and descend. Ususally we do a whole bunch, not just 1 or 2. It looks like that deer stand takes a bit of time to set up and then you have to suit up as well. Please break down the times for each component as I have considered a deer stand before but considered even if the ascent time was the same, the setup time on each palm would kill your profit margin.


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## tree md (Feb 1, 2010)

I have 3 climbing tree stands and 4 sections of 4' ladder sticks I use for a fixed, hang-on tree stand. I use all of mine for hunting but I did use one on one of my father's trees onetime when I wanted to do a spikeless prune. It was after I had a pretty serious climbing accident and sold off most of my gear. All I had was an old saddle and lanyard. It worked out pretty well. I even have a pic of the job somewhere around here. I use all of my tree stands for hunting now as I am an avid archer and bowhunter.

The climbing stands set up relatively quickly. I have an old original Summit that I bought back in like 88, a newer Summit Viper and an API climbing stand. I can have all of them set up, hung on the tree and ready to climb in about 3 minutes.

The stands will rub and damage the bark if used repeatedly on the same tree but doesn't cause any long term damage. I have some trees that I have hunted annually for 6 consecutive years and they will show some damage after a full season of climbing but they are good as new come the following year. For a single climb any slight damage would be hard to detect.

It is a good solution for some trees but would not be very practical for most tree work as there is no way to bypass limbs with one. In other words, they will only work on the spar. Would be OK for Palms I imagine but most of my work involves having to bypass limbs where a rope and saddle is the only practical solution other than using a lift or bucket.


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## Koa Man (Feb 1, 2010)

The climbing stand is a lot slower than spiking. I would say spiking is about 10 times faster (climbing speed only) when you take into consideration setting up and dismantling the stand. With 2 guys, it only takes about a minute to attach and detach the stand, but in one minute I could be about 30 ft. up a palm by spiking. We hardly have any Queen palms around here. Most of our palm trimming is coconut. It takes about 3-5 minutes to trim a coconut palm, about 2 minutes to climb 60 ft. and we descend with a rope which takes about 30 sec. to set up and rappel to the ground. Total time per coconut averages about 7 to 10 minutes per palm. We usually pace ourselves so we don't get burned out as climbing palms is very exhausting work. With the frequent breaks, I average about 4 per hour by spiking. Using the climbing stand I would say I can do about 2.5 to 3 per hour.

Trimming time itself is about 25% faster on spikes compared to rotating the stand around the palm.

All the palms I trim that require spikeless trimming are under 35 ft. as they are the new plantings.

The stand makes no noticeable marks on the palm trunk.


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## outofmytree (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks for posting Koaman. Always looking for ways to improve. 

The standards here require spurless pruning for all trees but there is a gaping hole in techniques and gear for palms like Queens/Cocos. Most of the conventional spurless climbing techniques are either unsafe or so drastically slow as to be unviable. We need something that is safe and at least close to the speed of spurs.

Perhaps I need to invent it myself!


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## treesandsurf (Feb 1, 2010)

Is that a modified deer stand? I've been throwing lines over the heads of royal palms and securing one end and then srt technique up to prune them. Prefer this method over using the swiss bicycles. 

jp


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## outofmytree (Feb 1, 2010)

Missed this part first time around.



> 4 per hour by spiking. Using the climbing stand I would say I can do about 2.5 to 3 per hour.



See thats pretty reasonable. Drop 25% productivity per hour but have no spike/spur damage. You can easily sell that to a client. Some will pay and some won't but you will also pick up other clientele simply because you have a spurless option that other tree companies don't.

I would assume that these stands are made for sitting for long periods of time rather than simply up, rotate 360 degrees and down again as we need to do for palm cleaning. This suggests that there is ample room for modification to lighten the device and to improve the ease of attaching and removing from the tree. 

Koaman do coconut palms have uniform trunk diameter? One of the issues we encounter are petiole bases (we call em husks) still attached to queen palms. Removing them before they are completely dried out opens the tree up far worse than spikes but climbing past them with a device that has a fixed internal diameter sounds quite tricky. 

Any thoughts?


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## outofmytree (Feb 1, 2010)

Briefly off topic.

Koaman on another thread you said it was impossible to throw a line over the head of a palm and pull it through. Was that meant to be just Coconut palms? I ask because I prune Washingtonias using a throwline inserted false crotch system. This is a short vid I made at my sisters place of the technique. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tI35IO9gvE

I saw the photos you posted of what I assume is a coconut palm and althought they look really unfriendly to rope Washies are mean too but if you get the angles right it is a fairly simple job.


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## Koa Man (Feb 1, 2010)

Coconut palms, for the most part, have fairly uniform trunk diameters, except for the first 4 ft. Often times we use one section of the strap on ladders to get up a little before putting on the climbing stands. The main problem with the stands is the range of diameter that you can use it is min. 8" to max. 20".
Many of the coconuts we climb are smaller than 8" dia. Some are as small as 5" in dia. and about 60 ft. high. Those are all old trees and none of the newer ones that require spikeless trimming are that skinny. 

The main reason I bought the Amacker was because it is adjustable on the fly. My Summitt is rather difficult to adjust while using it on the tree.

Yes, I was primarily referring to coconut palms when saying it is impossible to pull a rope through the head by running a throw ball line attached to a climbing line. I am trimming cocos today, so I'll try and get some better photos detailing what I mean. I have never trimmed a Queen, only done four or five Washies in my entire 26 year career, but have trimmed cocos more than 20,000 times. I lost count many years ago.


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## Bermie (Feb 1, 2010)

Hey thanks for posting and for the pictures!
It a great discussion amongst us who do palms...nice to see and hear of the alternatives. Certainly any spikeless climbing (not bucket work) is going to entail more time, but as has been said the sell/upside is no unsightly holes, aesthetics matter to some people and they should be willing to bear the extra cost for a quality result...

Have you seen, or considered the tree bicycle that the Spanish use a lot?

I saw one at College and have a brochure around somewhere for it...anyone got any experience with it?

I had to takedown a 60' dead coconut on Friday, it had been hit by lightning and was starting to ooze little holes all over! I took my time, didn't know how solid it would be, and it had to be spike climbed and rigged down on itself...infrastructure and plants below...no access...it was a few months dead, only just starting to get a little smelly at the top, all went well, small pieces...3.5 hrs arrival to departure, including sweeping up the chips. Slow to some of you I'm sure, but hey...it was a wobbly little sucker!


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## outofmytree (Feb 2, 2010)

Palm work is certainly a different world! 

Bermie I have a strong personal belief that "the labourer is worth his salt". An old English saying you may be familiar with that simply means you should be paid for your work. If it takes a pro 3 1/2 hrs to dismantle a palm that is because it took 3 1/2 hours! Never been up a Coconut palm but to put things in perspective, it generally takes me 30 minutes to dismantle the average Cocos palm. I did one removal a few months back for which I charged 1 1/2 hours and it turned out I was under by 30 minutes! Tiny drop zone, lattice work fence, swimming pool.... you know the drill!

I am keen to play with a tree stand or a clone of one as I believe there is great scope here for medium to large palm pruning where the trunk is uniform in diameter. What a coup it would be to design a machine that would work on trees with variable diameter without significant loss of climbing speed!


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## outofmytree (Feb 2, 2010)

Koa Man said:


> have trimmed cocos more than 20,000 times. I lost count many years ago.



H-o-l-y c-r-a-p. I mean that in the literal sense!


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## Bermie (Feb 2, 2010)

Thanks oomt...other than describing all the specific variables of the job to justify the time, hey that's what it took!

The tree bike is quite some piece of equipment, I wish I could find the brochure, I seem to remember it was adjustable, straps that tighten as you step down on the 'pedal', then loosen as you step up and transfer weight to theother one...its not cheap though, at least $2000 if I recall


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## danbirch (Aug 26, 2012)

Bermie said:


> Thanks oomt...other than describing all the specific variables of the job to justify the time, hey that's what it took!
> 
> The tree bike is quite some piece of equipment, I wish I could find the brochure, I seem to remember it was adjustable, straps that tighten as you step down on the 'pedal', then loosen as you step up and transfer weight to theother one...its not cheap though, at least $2000 if I recall



Is this it?
TREE CLIMBING EQUIPMENT aka TREE BIKE - British Pathé


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