# Why do peple use dozers over track loaders?



## catbuster

I seriously don't get why people only run dozers isntead of track loaders. Dozers with angle blades suck for clearing because of all the pins and bushings and cylinders getting worn when you try to pop a stump. With a loader you can get under the stump,and pry it up,and you can push it out like with a dozer. Once you've ran an angle dozer,using the loader is easy. Just a tranny with some aux. controls. It's also got tracks,so the pushing charecteristics are similar (I know the difference between double and single bar grousers.) With a track loader and 4-n-1 you can pile logs too. Think about PA Plumber's work,doing it all with a 931C. He was on the TL and he had a guy falling/bucking/limbing. A 953C/D (only because they have lower hors with less chance to break down,minus the electronic crap) with sweeps and a winch is my personal dream logging machine. So much you can do with them. I wish the 943 was back. That was the perfect size.


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## 056 kid

I am far from an expert, but I dont think you can cut roads through mountains with a track loader and that is the main purpose for a logger owning a dozer i believe. . .


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## tlandrum

i have a 955l and cutting roads with it is easy,i can cut roads on about anything with it you just have to go about it differently than with a dozer. i think building roads is easier with 6-way but the track loader has so many more uses. really i wish i had both but you use what works best in most situations


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## Frank Boyer

I've cut a lot of roads with my 125 International crawler/loader/backhoe/drill/sheepsfoot. A six way angle dozer does some things well, but a crawler loader is much more versatile.


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## joesawer

A loader is built and balanced for carrying loads a dozier is built and balanced for pushing. A modern track skidder has the center of gravity moved forward to help with pulling.
A loader normally does not have any articulation on the front idlers while a dozier does. A dozier also usually has a lower COG. Both of which help keep the dozier on the ground better than a loader. A loader will never follow a dozier on steep rough ground. 
A simple tilt blade will let you cut in a road much quicker and easier than any loader once you know how to use it. It will also let cut in a place for your tracks to run much easier.
A loader will out load a dozier all day and out turn it on good ground. With its high lift and fast forward and reverse it is a great clearing machine. But with its weight in the back it will never out push an equivalent dozier and certainly never pull with it unless you back up. 
About the best single clearing machine I have ever seen was a 963 with a rake and grapple and single grouser tracks. But it wont go where a D-6 H will.


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## 056 kid

Thats pretty much what I was thinking. I have witnessed my boss negotiate some very serious terrain on his d5h. I am talking steep steep terrain. I think a track loader would go over backwards on the same ground, if it didnt, it would likely flop over on the turn around..


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## komatsuvarna

joesawer said:


> A loader is built and balanced for carrying loads a dozier is built and balanced for pushing. A modern track skidder has the center of gravity moved forward to help with pulling.
> A loader normally does not have any articulation on the front idlers while a dozier does. A dozier also usually has a lower COG. Both of which help keep the dozier on the ground better than a loader. A loader will never follow a dozier on steep rough ground.
> A simple tilt blade will let you cut in a road much quicker and easier than any loader once you know how to use it. It will also let cut in a place for your tracks to run much easier.
> A loader will out load a dozier all day and out turn it on good ground. With its high lift and fast forward and reverse it is a great clearing machine. But with its weight in the back it will never out push an equivalent dozier and certainly never pull with it unless you back up.
> About the best single clearing machine I have ever seen was a 963 with a rake and grapple and single grouser tracks. But it wont go where a D-6 H will.



:agree2: 100% A dozer also has wider track pads with less ground pressure. Also, If you pry on enough stumps with that loader your gonna have a warped up cutting edge on that bucket. Seen it to many times. Ever body wants to pry on stumps right in the center of the bucket. Even seen a few with the whole bottom tore out. As said before, A loader will never follow a dozer.... vertical or Horizontal.


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## hammerlogging

if you need a stump out why cut it first? Leverage. then buck off root wad. standard road building proceedure.


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## komatsuvarna

hammerlogging said:


> if you need a stump out why cut it first? Leverage. then buck off root wad. standard road building proceedure.



:agree2: Just answering Catbusters question about pushing out stumps.


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## slowp

Around here both are used.







Right of way trees are felled then the hoe comes in and decks, pulls the stumps, and starts pioneering. We don't like sidecast. A hoe can compact the soil. The cat comes in and finishes the job. Steep doesn't matter. The road show above had some pretty hard ground to cover.


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## komatsuvarna

I agree. A hoe is definitely easier than a loader or dozer. But you aint going to get much compaction out of a hoe. They have atleast a 24 inch pad and less ground pressure than a dozer.


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## hammerlogging

komatsuvarna said:


> :agree2: Just answering Catbusters question about pushing out stumps.



10/4

we try not to bring our hoe out, buts its there for the tough spots. Then again, we probably get to build our roads with a bit less oversight than slowP's territory.

Guess who's running a bunch of loggerPC profiles on this wet day? Got some yarding units coming up. Bye bye bird!


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## redprospector

They each have their place. But a dozer dosen't load very well, and a loader dosen't doze very well.
Several years ago I was on a quest to find the perfect gooseneck trailer. One that would do everything I needed to do well so that I would only have to have one trailer. What I found is that there isn't one. Which is why I have 3 goosenecks, and a couple of bumper pull trailers, and a friend with a self loading log truck that I hire from time to time.
Same thing with the loader vs dozer thing. When you need a loader, you need a loader. When you need a dozer, you need a dozer. Anything less is just getting by. It dosen't hurt to have a friend with a hoe you can hire from time to time either.

Andy


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## catbuster

I was just wondering... I've always used a loader, and plan on continuing that way.But,it's pretty flat here too... Btw,high drive dozers like a 6R have a higher center of gravity than a 53 or 63. I think with single bar grousers you could take a loader anywhere a dozer could go. I've done it. If you tear a bucket off your just plain stupid. You dig under a stump, then push it out.


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## komatsuvarna

L-Enterprises said:


> I think some of you need to define to yourself what each of these peices look like . Because I saw alot of slang .
> 
> 
> Track loader = Crawler Loader
> Loader = Wheel Loader
> Dozer = Crawler Tractor



Most of us know what they look like. Were around them ever day or like me i run one everday. And most of us know ther isnt going to be a rubber tired loader runnin through the woods cuttin in roads. That thing would be on its top fast. Everbody moves dirt different too. Im sure the ground in the PNW is way different than it is here.


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## komatsuvarna

catbuster said:


> If you tear a bucket off your just plain stupid. You dig under a stump, then push it out.



LOL, I agree, but you wouldnt believe the buckets(probably more on rental machines) that ive seen with the whole bottom bowed down or broke out from some egit trying to pry out a stump.


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## slowp

komatsuvarna said:


> Most of us know what they look like. Were around them ever day or like me i run one everday. And most of us know ther isnt going to be a rubber tired loader runnin through the woods cuttin in roads. That thing would be on its top fast. Everbody moves dirt different too. Im sure the ground in the PNW is way different than it is here.



The requirements are too. Some areas they have to haul the excess dirt and pile it. No sidecasting. 
When the road is no longer needed, they have to load that dirt back in and put it back and contour the hillside as best they can. Good thing we have nice timber!


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## catbuster

L-Enterprises said:


> I think some of you need to define to yourself what each of these peices look like . Because I saw alot of slang .
> 
> 
> Track loader = Crawler Loader
> Loader = Wheel Loader
> Dozer = Crawler Tractor



Okay, I'l use my regualar slang

Hil-lift (any way spelled): Crawler Loader- Looks like this:




Loader: Wheel loader-Looks like this:




Dozer/Cat:Bulldozer. Looks like this:


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## catbuster

komatsuvarna said:


> LOL, I agree, but you wouldnt believe the buckets(probably more on rental machines) that ive seen with the whole bottom bowed down or broke out from some egit trying to pry out a stump.



Yes... I can't beleive that they even let people rent hilifts. Then stuff breaks because they out push something too heavy with a light bucket and it shears off.


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## Hddnis

There was a construction company that ran a loader with long wide tracks with the single cleat grouser shoes. It was a specialty machine and supported a pipe laying job. I'm not sure what they did with it after that job was done.



Mr. HE


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## Frank Boyer

komatsuvarna said:


> LOL, I agree, but you wouldnt believe the buckets(probably more on rental machines) that ive seen with the whole bottom bowed down or broke out from some egit trying to pry out a stump.



They make light material buckets. That is a loader bucket that is oversized and used for large volume. Normally light material buckets are made of thinner metal and aren't designed for normal usage.


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## 056 kid

slowp said:


> The requirements are too. Some areas they have to haul the excess dirt and pile it. No sidecasting.
> When the road is no longer needed, they have to load that dirt back in and put it back and contour the hillside as best they can. Good thing we have nice timber!


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## joesawer

catbuster said:


> I was just wondering... I've always used a loader, and plan on continuing that way.But,it's pretty flat here too... Btw,high drive dozers like a 6R have a higher center of gravity than a 53 or 63. I think with single bar grousers you could take a loader anywhere a dozer could go. I've done it. If you tear a bucket off your just plain stupid. You dig under a stump, then push it out.




A 963 going where a D-6R goes? 
Nope aint going to happen.
It will be shiny side up in just a minute if you try to follow me!


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## catbuster

joesawer said:


> A 963 going where a D-6R goes?
> Nope aint going to happen.
> It will be shiny side up in just a minute if you try to follow me!



Depends on the way I run. And how steep it is. And the application. If you try to follow me through a mud hole,then you'll be stuck in be mud where I can push and pull my way out with a bucket. Your stuck with a blade. But, If I try to go up an 1.5:1 slope,youre right, I'm shiny side up. If you abre careful with turns,you could prolly follow a dozer up a 1.5:1 tho. 1:1 just ain't possible. A 6R is wider,and it won't go over as easy tho. I cut for clearing,not logging. if I was to log,the property owners would go insane with all the brush and stumps I would leave behind.


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