# Wood stove research... which one?



## Haywire Haywood (May 23, 2008)

I asked this question some time ago, and Rspike (among others) had good responses. I never did get a stove and am again looking at options. I forgot this thread and found it on a search. Thought it might be interesting to dredge up again.

http://arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=502477&postcount=26


----------



## wkpoor (May 23, 2008)

HH, I've been burning a stove for 7 yrs now 24/7 from early Nov-late March. My stove was made in a dumpster fabrication shop and is little more than a metal box lined with fire brick and a hole in the top. It has served us well and heated the house good too. But just this week I decided to step up (kinda) and bought a new to me stove. Its a Nashua and even though its still almost 30yrs old its looks very well made and heavily constructed (500lbs).
The most important factor to me is a stove that can burn all night long and still have a good coal base in the morning to restoke from. My old unit will do that but probably because the firebox is so large rather than efficiency.
Something to keep in mind. I've heard for yrs about the new EPA stoves but this past winter I delivered a load of firewood to someone. He invited us in to the house. He has a very nice Vermont Castings stove. Beautiful thing to look at with all kinds of whistles and bells all porcelain even the pipe was too. I'm looking at this thing of beauty and then I realized something......it was putting maybe a tenth the amount of heat my old ugly does! So just keep in mind what a stove needs to do, heat! All the whistles and bells and efficiency ratings won't mean a thing if it doesn't put out much heat. I cut my own firewood and never have a shortage issue so a few more sticks a day ain't no big deal to me and some of them old stoves can really put off the heat. Before I would drop 1,000.00-2,000.00 dollars I would make sure of how well it can heat. Old stoves are a dime a dozen and can be bought cheap so If you buy one you don't like you won't have much in it. If you spend 1,500.00 you might be forced to live with a dud.


----------



## Crofter (May 23, 2008)

The old stoves will get a lot hotter and burn greener and junky wood a lot better than the EPA stoves. The new stoves are safer in that the draft is limited so they will not get away on you. If you have to have an insurance inspection you might not get aproval for anything over 10 years old or anything that is not UL listed. The new ones are an obscene price compared to one you can put together for yourself. I just ordered a Kitchen Queen 380 wood cookstove http://www.woodstoves.net/aboutus.htm that will do for spring and fall and heat my hot water as well as a fair bit of the cooking but time I get it here and install another chimney it will cost me three grand. Take a long time to pay for itself but it will keep me entertained so I guess that is better than other ways to spend it.


----------



## Richard_ (May 25, 2008)

check out http://www.pacificenergy.net , I installed the Pacific Insert , it's rated to heat 2000 sq. ft , and it works well to heat 1200 sq. ft. home in the cold and damp Oregon winters , very well made and reasonably priced , every bit as good as the higher end inserts , just doesn't have the fancy finish , and it comes with a blower , where other ones charge you for it


----------



## Locoweed (May 25, 2008)

Clearance distance to walls and furniture etc. is something else you need to consider. I have been using a Regency for 10 years. The clearance, heat output & being a non-cat stove were the deciding issues for me. I suggest you buy the next larger size than recommended. That way you can use larger logs and get longer burn times without throttling down the air.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (May 25, 2008)

I recall that when I went to the local distributor, they recommended that I watch out for getting one too big. They said that if you get one too big and constantly have to keep it throttled down to keep your area from being a sauna, you'll have problems with creosote. Better a little smaller stove burning at capacity than a large one choked down. I have 1800 sq ft of decently insulated house and have been looking at stoves rated for 12-1500sq ft. I'm looking at supplemental heat rather than 24/7. I figure I'll run it in the evening and through the night but let it burn out during the day. Rspike said in that post above that you never really get what they say it will put out, so I've also been looking at the 2000 sq ft stoves. I kinda like the modern looking stoves like the Pacific Energy Fusion. Looks like a big stainless microwave oven on a pedestal.

Ian


----------



## Hugenpoet (May 25, 2008)

Locoweed said:


> Clearance distance to walls and furniture etc. is something else you need to consider. I have been using a Regency for 10 years. The clearance, heat output & being a non-cat stove were the deciding issues for me. I suggest you buy the next larger size than recommended. That way you can use larger logs and get longer burn times without throttling down the air.



+1 Absolutely correct. Unless you want to keep the stove running full bore and stand next to it throwing logs into the firebox as fast as the stove consumes the wood, get the next bigger size and run it throttled down a tad. Much easier on the stove operator.


----------



## wkpoor (May 25, 2008)

I view the firebox like the gas tank on your car. The bigger the tank the farther you will go. I stoke up my 30x36 inch box plumb full and regulate it to 500 degrees surface temp. It will go for hours that way. I usually stoke 3xs a day as I burn 24/7 for about 5 months of the year.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (May 25, 2008)

Interesting all the "go big" opinions.. are you sure we aren't discussing chainsaws? Oh well, since I'm the one that's never run a wood stove, I will take the advice of the ones that do. I'll skip the smaller ones and stick to the 2000 sq ft models.

My wife has nixed the modern look... says she prefers the classic stove look. Actually, she would rather have a fireplace w/ insert but since we have no fireplace, that would really drive the price through the roof.

Ian


----------



## iowawoodcutter (May 25, 2008)

Hey, I have a Hampton H300 and love it. I heat a house with 1000 ft2 basement and 1250 ft2 main floor. The stove is in the basement and will heat the whole house, although the basement will get a tad toasty to get the upstairs to 72. It is also an extremely attractive stove. The only drawback is it only will take 18" firewood, that is kind of a bummer. Take a look...

http://www.hampton-fire.com/Wood/Stoves/H300/index.php

C


----------



## Saucydog (May 25, 2008)

I love my Regency F2400 stove.It's not the fanciest unit out there, but it's easy to use,very efficient, and long-burning.Build-quality is high...right up there with Pacific-Energy.You can't go wrong with either brand IMO.


----------



## Saucydog (May 25, 2008)

*Regency secondary-burn*

No visible smoke from chimney at this stage of burn.


----------



## eric_271 (May 26, 2008)

Check out Hearthstone stoves if ya want. My folks have had theirs for 28 years. I have had mine since 94 or 95. Heavy cast frame with 1'' 1/2 soap stone on the sides and top. Beautiful stoves but a little pricey. They been around since late 1700's early 1800's.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (May 26, 2008)

Hey Saucy.. I see you have your pipe turned 90 deg right off the stove. Ever have any problems getting draft? The installer I talked to wanted 3-4' of vertical pipe before turning. He said it was better for draft that way.

Ya know, thinking back, it might have been a rear exhaust stove and we were asking if it could go straight out the wall and eliminate any pipe in the room. Yea, that sounds right. He wanted to come out the back and turn 90 for 3 or 4 ft of vertical before going outside.

Ian


----------



## woodbooga (May 26, 2008)

Haywire Haywood said:


> My wife has nixed the modern look... says she prefers the classic stove look. Actually, she would rather have a fireplace w/ insert but since we have no fireplace, that would really drive the price through the roof.



I can't speak for anyone else, but we burn with a 100-year old Century Crawford cookstove. We like it because we use it for baking and stovetop cooking, and it throws off a lot of heat. In making this choice, we defered to my wife's preference since she had one growing up and learned to cook on one.

The drawback is the small firebox - about 20" deep and about 10" wide. Needless to say, she's not an all nighter. If I load it tight at midnight, I'm down to embers by 3:30am and we need to restart each morning.

Very rarely is there any visible smoke coming from our chimney. An advantage of a cookstove is that we can burn everything from junkwood and real little stuff, up to a good sized stick of wood. On the occasion where we light it up for a small late May fire to take the chill off or to boil some noodles, I'm burning mostly the woodchips from the barn floor produced over a wonter's worth of splitting kindling.


----------



## Vermonster (May 26, 2008)

A VT Castings WinterWarm Fireplace Insert and a Jotul 602N help stave off the the oil delivery business in this house. Our wood burning season can last from the end of August to mid May. The summer gardening season is pretty brief this far North.


----------



## Locoweed (May 26, 2008)

*My 2 cents worth*



Haywire Haywood said:


> Hey Saucy.. I see you have your pipe turned 90 deg right off the stove. Ever have any problems getting draft? The installer I talked to wanted 3-4' of vertical pipe before turning. He said it was better for draft that way.
> 
> Ya know, thinking back, it might have been a rear exhaust stove and we were asking if it could go straight out the wall and eliminate any pipe in the room. Yea, that sounds right. He wanted to come out the back and turn 90 for 3 or 4 ft of vertical before going outside.
> 
> Ian



I feel I get a lot of extra heat from the stove pipe. Look closely at my double wall pipe and you will see slots at the top and bottom for air flow. Getting more heat out of your stove is like heat for free.


----------



## iowawoodcutter (May 27, 2008)

Or you can just run single wall pipe up to the cieling, that is what I did. Get a ton of heat from that. Just be sure you dont run single wall through the ceiling or walls!


----------



## Locoweed (May 27, 2008)

Mine is too close to the wall for single wall pipe. Another thing you have to take into consideration.


----------



## Saucydog (May 27, 2008)

Haywire, you're right about the elbow,it doesn't help with the draft but the 16' of straight chimney above that make it useable.Ideally, a straight run of double wall pipe would be best, but I'm limited by the previous owners' install of the wall thimble into the brick chimney.....


----------



## Haywire Haywood (May 28, 2008)

Claimed Efficiency numbers. Can you trust them? Is there a standard for determining this number or does every manufacturer make up their own tests?

The best one I've seen so far is a Regency F2400 at 77%.

Ian


----------



## Gatsby174 (May 28, 2008)

I don't know about a standard test, but that recency model is the medium firebox design. If it were me, I'd want the largest they make since I heat my whole house with my stove. The larger one is stated at 71% efficient.
JC


----------



## wkpoor (May 28, 2008)

> Claimed Efficiency numbers


IMO just another meaningless specification for wood stoves. Way too many variables to compare with. Probably looks good on a brochure though. 
What is important about stoves is almost impossible to know beforehand ( how well they heat and how long the fire will last ) unless you know of someone using a specific model to see for your self.

Earl put one in his shop this past year and the results were almost too good. He bought an old stove off craigs list for about $200.00. Nothing pretty just functional. His shop is 26x80. The heat is so intense he wears a light tee shirt out there with the service door open while working. And the stove is seriously throttled back. Most nights he has a good coal base in the morning to continue with. He is very happy with the investment.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (May 28, 2008)

Gatsby174 said:


> I don't know about a standard test, but that Recency model is the medium firebox design. If it were me, I'd want the largest they make since I heat my whole house with my stove. The larger one is stated at 71% efficient.
> JC



Well, in comparing numbers, the Jotul F500 has 70k btu and they say it will heat up to a 2000 sq ft home. Their F600 has 81.5k btu and they say it will heat a 2500 sq ft home. The Regency F2400 claims 75k btu, so in theory, it should do great with my 1800 sq ft and do so with less wood. I don't live in Maine or Minnesota, so I'm not dealing with sub-zero temps either. If it gets down to the single digits, it's a day here and there, not weeks straight. 15 degrees is a cold day here and it doesn't generally stay there long thank goodness. 



wkpoor said:


> IMO just another meaningless specification for wood stoves. Way too many variables to compare with. Probably looks good on a brochure though.



That's kinda what I figured but when you're window shopping, all you have to go on is what they give you on the specs page.  

Ian


----------



## Haywire Haywood (May 30, 2008)

Anyone ever notice that the Avalon and Lopi web sites share exactly the same design? The Avalon Rainier and the Lopi Endeavor stoves have exactly the same specs. I'm beginning to think it's the same stove marketed under different brands.

Ian


----------



## Haywire Haywood (May 30, 2008)

Just confirmed with the dealer that they are indeed the same company, or one owns the other, and those stoves are the same. The Avalon Spokane is $1561 and the Lopi Endeavor is $2025. Go figure.

Ian


----------



## wood4heat (May 30, 2008)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Just confirmed with the dealer that they are indeed the same company, or one owns the other, and those stoves are the same. The Avalon Spokane is $1561 and the Lopi Endeavor is $2025. Go figure.
> 
> Ian



Have him price a Lopi Republic 1750. The Endeavor looks a little nicer IMO, the Spokane and Republic look like the same stoves.


----------



## wood4heat (May 30, 2008)

Mine has the pewter door option but I like the step top design of the Endeavor.

The Lopi site didn't have a good pic so here's mine:







The Lopi Republic:






And the Spokane:






I also noticed the Republic and Spokane don't have the flu bypass lever on the right side like the Endeavor. It may be on the other side but I would ask the dealer about that as well.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (May 30, 2008)

I'm going to have to drive down there and have a look sometime in the next couple weeks.

The stove dealer in Lexington turned me on to a company called "Lexington Forge" which set up here locally in Paris, Kentucky. They make a "Savannah" which he said is a copy of the Regency F2400. He ran one in his showroom this past winter and said he actually liked it better than the F2400. It's made locally too so that is good. They're within about $100 of each other price wise.

About the BTU and efficiency numbers. I called 2 dealers today and asked them if they could be trusted and both of them said it was pure marketing and not much more.

The F2400 claims 75,000 BTUs in the spec sheet and in comparing that number to other manufacturers, it should be a 2000sq ft class stove. The Lexington Forge claims 55,400 BTUs and 2000 sq ft capable and the dealer says they're equivalent stoves.

Ian


----------



## Saucydog (May 30, 2008)

Haywire is the "savannah" an east-west loader or is the firebox deep enough to allow north-south loading?I ask because I saw a Lexington Forge at a local dealerlast fall and it was too shallow for n-s loading(although it seems reasonably well-built)


----------



## Haywire Haywood (May 30, 2008)

It only loads the regular way which means the firebox isn't as large in that dimension. It is slightly wider as it will take a 20" log as opposed the 18 of the 2400. Hmmm... bigger firebox = more heat now or longer burn later eh?

Ian

Edit.. looking at materials, the Savannah is supposed to be 5/16" plate all around. I don't see where the regency says. The other stoves I've been looking at say 3/16-5/16".

Do these things ever burn out or is the extra thickness not really important?

Ian


----------



## Saucydog (May 30, 2008)

True,but given the choice I'll take a n-s loader anyday.I have an e-w loader in the basement and I find it won't hold as much wood as a n-s loader....and the FRIGGIN logs like to roll out during a reload!grrrr


----------



## Haywire Haywood (May 30, 2008)

The Savannah specs out a 2 cu ft firebox, no specific dims. How tall is the box on your 2400? I assume that since it takes an 18" log in both directions that it's at least 18.5" wide and long.

Ian


----------



## user 19670 (May 30, 2008)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I don't live in Maine or Minnesota, so I'm not dealing with sub-zero temps either. If it gets down to the single digits, it's a day here and there, not weeks straight. 15 degrees is a cold day here and it doesn't generally stay there long thank goodness. Ian



That would be the deciding factor for me Ian. Our Regency stove is tooooo small for our northern winters. Should have gone one size larger to the biggest one. You can always build a small fire in a big stove but not the other way around. For your weather I would stay conservative in size or you will be living outside when the fire is one


----------



## user 19670 (May 30, 2008)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Do these things ever burn out or is the extra thickness not really important?Ian



Typically they burn (wear) out under the top where the hot air (fire) strikes it as it clears the smoke shelf (baffle). Ask at your woodstove dealer and they can usually show you and tell you about this. Our dealer has old stoves in the back to show off (and scare you into loosening the purse-strings).


----------



## woodguy105 (May 31, 2008)

*Wood stove...*

I've been burning wood only for the last 6 years with a Lopi Answer (Travis industries), great stove. Originally heating about 1,000 sq. ft. of a poorly insulated 1940's house. Now I use it in a much larger (equally drafty) 1930's farm house, along with occasionally stoking up an old Nashua with a blower that cranks. 

The Answer is not that big , I'd look into the Endeavor with cook top and larger box.

Both have very low minimum side and setbacks to walls.

 
Good luck!


----------



## Saucydog (May 31, 2008)

I read somewhere that the F2400 has a 2.5cu.ft. firebox.It is 18.5" wide(brick to brick)10" at center(under middle burn tube)and 19.25" deep.Regency uses 5/16 plate steel,P.E. uses 3/8".....I doubt you could burn out either one as long as all the firebrick are in place.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jun 5, 2008)

Well, my AC died today, second day I had it on this season. That lump of inert copper and wiring on the pad outside my window might be my wood stove.   It's 12 years old. I hope it's just unconscious and not dead. 

Ian


----------



## wkpoor (Jun 5, 2008)

Come on Ian, don't let a little hot weather get between you and a new stove!


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jun 5, 2008)

I can dress warm and deal with the cold. There's no getting away from heat.

Ian


----------



## Dennis_Peacock (Jun 5, 2008)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Well, my AC died today, second day I had it on this season. That lump of inert copper and wiring on the pad outside my window might be my wood stove.   It's 12 years old. I hope it's just unconscious and not dead.
> 
> Ian



I HATE A/C problems. They are expensive to repair.

BTW, we bought a soapstone stove 3 years ago and man do we ever like it.!!!! Great stove, easy on wood, heat is even and strong. It's our only source of heat for the winter as we refuse to fire up the NG central unit and pay almost $400 per month for natural gas!!!! I get firewood for free from trees already down and besides.....I like slingin' a chainsaw and watchin' the chips fly.


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jun 5, 2008)

I just came up with a decent source for firewood only a 3 mile drive down the road too.... LOL... might be selling firewood to offset propane again this year.

Ian


----------



## Haywire Haywood (Jun 10, 2008)

Well, the A/C has put the stove purchase off again. The HVAC guy came over and found one of the wires burned off at the compressor. The contacts were fairly corroded so I figured (hoped) that the corrosion caused the high amps, so we cleaned up the remaining contacts and re-termed the one that was burned. It cranked up and ran fine, pressures were good and it was well within the rated amperage draw. We had about 4 hours of nice cold air and the compressor itself burned up with a poof and a flash. Must have been something intermittent that caused the compressor to overload. 

Oh well.. I guess Haywood's Firewood is still in business this season. I'll be selling firewood to pay for propane instead of sitting in front of a nice warm stove  . At least the price of firewood is going up. That's some consolation. 

Ian


----------

