# such a waste



## Addison (Jan 31, 2007)

ive notice time an time again all the wood that is wasted locally and on AS!! such as maple, cherry, birch, walnut,oak Even fir, cedar, spruce, alder ext.. on the firewood and heating forum, i always read about how members are using these woods in excess of 30'' diameter bucking and splitting them into firewood!!!!!! or when im just driving around town where im always too late to find these trees felled and bucked laying on the side of the road..now i love fire! who doesn't? but i use the crown of the tree or use smaller logs. now i can see maybe if you heating your house but i still cant see using hardwood logs that are soo large and fit for milling. its too bad there wasn't like some sort of recovery team that could trade or buy these logs an put them to good use! and even trade the owner firewood or money! just my humble opinion! :biggrinbounce2:


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## woodshop (Jan 31, 2007)

You are not alone in your distaste for seeing 30 inch cherry saw logs worth potentially several thousand bucks cut up into btu wood. But... its simple supply and demand economics. With few exceptions, its still not worth it for lumber yards to be driving all over town picking up a stray tree or two. In this case, the ends don't always justify the means, unfortunately.


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## Woodsrover (Jan 31, 2007)

Not that I have that much really large wood on my property, but there has been a time or two where I've bucked up some really nice stuff while I grit my teeth. The latest was a beautiful, clear red oak that I wacked up last weekend (see picture). I did save and slab up a large cherry burl a month ago that's drying as we speak, but for the most part, the rest gets turned into firewood.

I was talking to a logger that was at the shop just last week and she (yes, she) said that oak was in the crapper right now anyway and worth more as firewood than lumber unless it was a very nice piece for veneer.

Still, a day will come when I own a CSM and a 90cc saw and save some of this stuff. I don't even make things from wood but still, sometimes I think it's a shame to burn some of this stuff.

Jim


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## Adkpk (Jan 31, 2007)

I hear ya.


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## wdchuck (Jan 31, 2007)

Two years ago I bucked up a 32" cherry, straight bark and everything, thought about how nice that wood would look as something made. 
Then I made the first cut, ants/punk/rot/hollow/ second cut, etc, yep, looked good on the outside, was crap in the middle, hardly made good firewood. OR inability to get the log out for cheap, big logs often have many defects(twists, large knots, poor growth pattern), yard trees often discarded due to the quantity of hazards in the log that will cause costly damage to the equipment. 
Many of us think about the other uses other than a pile of ashes, but heating the house is not a frivolous activity. Cut a tree down to heat the house, plant a new one as you go, it'll be there for the grandkids to cut down and burn. 

Why burn trunk wood? well, put in an arm load of 3" limbwood for the night and see how bloody cold the house is in the morning, and that you have to gather that much more wood because it burns in a shorter cycle. Trunk(stem) wood once split and seasoned well, gives much longer burn cycles, cleaner burns, and less work all around. 

Now that I have a CSM and am learning how to utilize it, more good wood will live on in something built, and if I get one of those big knarly trees that don't split nice and easy, it doesn't get discarded, that's what a saw is for , it gets reduced to burnable cants that fit in the wood furnace, very little goes to waste here. 

Visit a commercial sawyer and ask the grader some questions, we wood burners save a lot of trees that are taken down from going into a landfill, they can't even complete the carbon cycle when buried in garbage. 

What kind of solutions have you acted upon?


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## Husky137 (Jan 31, 2007)

I guess you guys have never seen a whole tree chipper in action. 24" trees filling up 53' chip vans. Waste is a relative term. Economics has to play a central role in a business. 

Firewood is better than the landfill.


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## CaseyForrest (Jan 31, 2007)

Husky137 said:


> I guess you guys have never seen a whole tree chipper in action. 24" trees filling up 53' chip vans. Waste is a relative term. Economics has to play a central role in a business.
> 
> Firewood is better than the landfill.



Yardwaste doesnt go into a landfill. If you see it happening, call your local Enviormental Quality office and report it as any yard waste entering a Subtitle D Sanitary Landfill is illegal.

The old addage "its better than ending up in a landfill" is about as wornout and ineffective as "Global Warming."


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## wdchuck (Jan 31, 2007)

CaseyForrest said:


> Yardwaste doesnt go into a landfill. If you see it happening, call your local Enviormental Quality office and report it as any yard waste entering a Subtitle D Sanitary Landfill is illegal.



Was not aware, thanks.


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## Husky137 (Jan 31, 2007)

splitting hairs..... it ends up in big waste piles at the landfill, not in the cells with the MSW.


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## Addison (Jan 31, 2007)

*to much wood to little time*

wdchuck and others all make good points of course i will burn the stuff, if other wise it would end up in a landfill. and the crap thats knotted and just sucks of course its wicked fire wood. and i wasn't talking about just only burning the crown more soo anything say under 12''. or whatevers too useless to mill. after writing that post i went out in my backyard and bucked some 16'' alder straight grain and just recently some 36'' plus cedar that i thought would make a very wonderful deck but not having the proper tools to do the job made it a wonderful enjoyment fire. but soon when i get the high cc saw and the mill that stuff will no longer be ashes


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## begleytree (Jan 31, 2007)

I haul in logs if it's worth my time, but I would much rather see a nice straight log go to keep a family and children warm, than just sawn into an old flat board. you have to have priorities, ya know? 
-Ralph


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## daemon2525 (Jan 31, 2007)

Addison said:


> ive notice time an time again all the wood that is wasted locally and on AS!! such as maple, cherry, birch, walnut,oak Even fir, cedar, spruce, alder ext.. on the firewood and heating forum, i always read about how members are using these woods in excess of 30'' diameter bucking and splitting them into firewood!!!!!! or when im just driving around town where im always too late to find these trees felled and bucked laying on the side of the road..now i love fire! who doesn't? but i use the crown of the tree or use smaller logs. now i can see maybe if you heating your house but i still cant see using hardwood logs that are soo large and fit for milling. its too bad there wasn't like some sort of recovery team that could trade or buy these logs an put them to good use! and even trade the owner firewood or money! just my humble opinion! :biggrinbounce2:




I have a big Oak tree that you can come and give me money for.
Let me know when you will be here. If you're not coming, then you'll know why I am goin to burn it. :jester: :jester:

I can't even seem to get anyone to come and cut it down for me, and I'll pay them!!! Let alone getting someone to pay me for it.


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## Addison (Jan 31, 2007)

lol..if i only lived close and had the necessary equipment i soooo would! and begleytree only in rare situations i can only see that... but if you think about it you could mill that wood and sell it and buy 4-5x the amount of firewood if the wood you milled was straight and was hardwood


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## Rick Alger (Jan 31, 2007)

*Waste and Whole Tree Harvest*

The whole tree harvest I've worked on doesn't waste anything. Logs and pulp are cut out at the landing. The tops and the rotten trees are chipped. 

Chips bring only around $28 a ton delivered.


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## dingo (Jan 31, 2007)

begleytree said:


> I haul in logs if it's worth my time, but I would much rather see a nice straight log go to keep a family and children warm, than just sawn into an old flat board. you have to have priorities, ya know?
> -Ralph



Yep, that's the secret if it is worth your time. I have had guys that wanted me to cut what looked like good straight logs, but they were wind shaken and and weakened by insect infestation. Much better for fire keeps in a heating stove than what lumber could be taken.


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## sawinredneck (Jan 31, 2007)

daemon2525 said:


> I have a big Oak tree that you can come and give me money for.
> Let me know when you will be here. If you're not coming, then you'll know why I am goin to burn it. :jester: :jester:
> 
> I can't even seem to get anyone to come and cut it down for me, and I'll pay them!!! Let alone getting someone to pay me for it.




Figure the mileage from Wichita KS to you, figure .30 a mile and $600, room and board for a night, and have some way to dispose of it. And I am there!!

edit: I'll bring the trailer and bring the firewood size back, just need to get rid of the brush.


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## hautions11 (Jan 31, 2007)

Where in Indiana????????????????????


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## Husky137 (Feb 1, 2007)

Rick Alger said:


> The whole tree harvest I've worked on doesn't waste anything. Logs and pulp are cut out at the landing. The tops and the rotten trees are chipped.
> 
> Chips bring only around $28 a ton delivered.



I don't think its a waste, but in the eyes of someone who felt firewood was a waste of wood, then chips are the ultimate sin. I think whole tree operations are great as long as the residual stand can be protected from damage.


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## curdy (Feb 1, 2007)

I don't think firewood is a waste, BUT, there are plenty of trees around here that have NO business being bucked and split to be burned. There was recently a guy in NJ that posted free firewood...he was standing next to a 30"+ log of walnut that he had bucked into 14-16" logs. :bang: Geez, I would have been there in a heartbeat to mill that, and I bet others would have been to if they had known. 

The homeowners for the most part just want the trees gone. However, I may even be so bold to say that most of them would be happier knowing a nice log was going to be milled rather than used for firewood.

Truly, I feel it is a matter of knowledge and awareness that there are options out there to give the log away or have someone come over and mill it there. I am getting ready to get a csm and milling saw and you better believe that I'm going to network with everyone I know that has anything to do with removing trees (tree service, construction, etc.) and have them notify me when certain size and species are being taken down. At least then, I have a shot at using it...if I don't want it, or don't want to take the time to mill it, than I'm not too upset with whatever they do with it.

Its up to us to get the word out that offering the logs to be milled is an option. Let people know!


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## Sawyer Rob (Feb 1, 2007)

"Waste" is in the eye of the beholder, as many folks feel it's a waste to saw "quality" cherry, oak, walnut ect. logs with a circle or CSM. When those same logs could have yielded more lumber useing a band mill, instead of turning every fith board into sawdust.

Rob


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## Dan Dill (Feb 1, 2007)

Addison said:


> ive notice time an time again all the wood that is wasted locally and on AS!! such as maple, cherry, birch, walnut,oak Even fir, cedar, spruce, alder ext.. on the firewood and heating forum, i always read about how members are using these woods in excess of 30'' diameter bucking and splitting them into firewood!!!!!! or when im just driving around town where im always too late to find these trees felled and bucked laying on the side of the road..now i love fire! who doesn't? but i use the crown of the tree or use smaller logs. now i can see maybe if you heating your house but i still cant see using hardwood logs that are soo large and fit for milling. its too bad there wasn't like some sort of recovery team that could trade or buy these logs an put them to good use! and even trade the owner firewood or money! just my humble opinion! :biggrinbounce2:




I cannot stand this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Recently I saw a Bastogne walnut cut into firewood. It was 5 feet Dbh and had a clear 16 foot log to the crotch............................I admired that tree for years and had mentioned to the owner that I would buy it from him if he ever removed it. He told me his contractor said it was too much trouble so he paid a tree service to fall it and make it into firewood. Piss poor planning.


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## olyman (Feb 1, 2007)

dan dill--makes you want to thump his head!!!!! guy did the same thing here--had a ash-40 in base--going 14 ft up--at 36 in top--he knocked it down--and turned it to firewood----damn----id a hauled firewwod equal to what he ruined---sheesh---


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## aquan8tor (Feb 1, 2007)

olyman said:


> dan dill--makes you want to thump his head!!!!! guy did the same thing here--had a ash-40 in base--going 14 ft up--at 36 in top--he knocked it down--and turned it to firewood----damn----id a hauled firewwod equal to what he ruined---sheesh---



NO KIDDING!!! I'd go out and buy firewood and deliver it to people, so that I could have some trees to mill like that!!!!!! 

I helped my sister and brother in-law move recently; a neighbor of theirs had felled a 40"++ white oak clear and sound all the way through--no holes for about 16 feet. Apparently, the homeowner did it themselves, with a 20" bar, because the remaining trunk had been hacked up so that they could get the bar to cut the whole thing. Apparently the round was too large to move, so it just sat there in their yard, with a bunch of cuts a little less than halfway through the log. They ruined the whole damn thing, and it had obviously been sitting there for months. Not only did they waste a potentially valuable log for milling, they didn't even have the saw to cut the dam* thing up to use as firewood. They just hacked it up and left it. STUPID PEOPLE.


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## begleytree (Feb 1, 2007)

jeez, where's all these people wanting logs to mill when I need to get rid of them? In my case a dozen guys want logs to mill, but when I have one comming down, they are too busy to be bothered with it.
I end up chunking them up and dumping them over the hill. I can't leave them lay there for weeks on end until someone decides to get up the gumption to come get them. then I get " you should have called me" to which I reply " I did, you were too busy, remember?" the bad part is that I know and let them know at least a week in advance when one is comming down. So much for hating to see mill logs cut up.
-Ralph


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## Andy Harden (Feb 1, 2007)

begleytree said:


> jeez, where's all these people wanting logs to mill when I need to get rid of them? In my case a dozen guys want logs to mill, but when I have one comming down, they are too busy to be bothered with it.
> I end up chunking them up and dumping them over the hill. I can't leave them lay there for weeks on end until someone decides to get up the gumption to come get them. then I get " you should have called me" to which I reply " I did, you were too busy, remember?" the bad part is that I know and let them know at least a week in advance when one is comming down. So much for hating to see mill logs cut up.
> -Ralph



I wish you were closer! I have 15 acres to fill with logs.


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## treemendous (Feb 2, 2007)

I hate thinking about how much wood I've bucked up. I have a W.M. at home but I don't have time to C.S.M. on site. So If I cant move the backyard logs due to gates, hills etc, they become firewood. I'd love to trade some logs to a C.S. miller for beer or help. (Anyone in the G.V.R.D.?)


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## windthrown (Feb 2, 2007)

*Burning mill quality wood*

Yah, we burn big alder here, along with maple and oak and madrone. Only 2 mills out here cut madrone thay I know of. It is beautyful hard wood, and we have it in our house for flooring. But in our case, it is not feasible or practicle to haul it to a mill. Not enough to interest the mills to come get it, they want a lot of trees to make it worth the effort. 

I was at a party on New Year's Eve west of Portland and these guys there have these preferct low taper Doug firs, great crowns, best trees I have seen in a while. 20-24" DBH. Maybe 50 acres of them. I asked them why they were not cutting them. They said that the price of Doug fir is so low right now that they are not cutting them for the mills. They are cutting them down five at a time and butchering them into firewood to sell in Portland by the cord instead. Better money that way. You have to go where the market will pay, regardless of quality. They do not like doing it either, but the mill is idle. 

Also... if you want a shameful waste, from a milling or firewood perspective, here in the land of big timber there are slash piles all over. Some 30 ft high and 40 ft across. We have to burn slash here by law. Fire hazard. So they pile up all the cull logs and "trash trees" and burn them in the fall and spring. I have seen perfect huge cull logs, logs that are odd length, or just logs that were left over or did not fill a truck tossed into slash piles. I go through slash piles looking for firewood to salvage, and you would not believe the 'trash' trees that they hack down and burn. Madrone, oak, hemlock, maple, alder... not so much alder now as the price is pretty high for that. But still.. I am burning mill quality wood to heat this place in winter. I have cordwood of different species all racked up. Alder, oak, madrone, fir, ash, sycamore (not great, but it burns), boxelder maple... all slash, or windthrow from this property. 

The mills around here are funny too. They will let you salvage stuff if it is for the garden or to burn. The minute they think that you are salvaging for milling, they will say "NO!" So I cannot really see being able to salvage this kind of slash wood for milling in any way. Its a paradigm out here really. "Trash" trees are any hardwoods like oak, madrone, birch and alders that are in the way of the clear cut of firs. Monoculture is the rule here. Doug fir and more Doug fir. The rest of it? Yawn...


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## dingo (Feb 2, 2007)

*waste*

I understand you guys hate to see logs wasted, so do I, but any old sawyer will let you know real quick what he thinks of yard, park trees and ones that are close to a fence. I let a big ash and walnut go on the same place. I was just a little bothered they had grown in a fenced in yard by an old out building.opcorn:


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## Finnbear (Feb 2, 2007)

I get almost all my logs and firewood either from a tree service who calls me when they need to get rid of some wood or from storm downed trees that I ask to remove/salvage from other people's land. What I can turn into nice boards I do and the rest makes great firewood. For those of you who want to make some boards but lack the necessary equipment or have more logs than you have time to mill, you can do what I do. Find someone with a bandmill who knows how to properly saw lumber and hire them to saw for you. It will cost you .25-.30 per board foot to have your logs sawed but you can end up with some very valuable lumber on the cheap this way. I have done 3 to 5 thousand board feet a year for a while now and more firewood than I have time to process (kids and sports-takes up a lot of time). I have been through four sawyers before I found a really good one. Anyone with a bandmill can cut up logs but not all can actually saw good lumber.
Finnbear


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## Finnbear (Feb 3, 2007)

TreeCo said:


> Arborist are often faced with difficult to remove trees that must be cut up just to get them safely on the ground......or bucked up to get them out of a back yard.



I recently moved some 32" dia hard maple logs out of a back yard with my log arch and a 4-wheeler. I got these from a tree service who took a little extra care taking the tree down so the butt log could come down in two 10ft sections for me to save for milling. I removed all the firewood for them in return for them being extra careful with the butt logs. There are ways to salvage urban timber with low impact forestry tools that keep landowners happy because of the minimal damage to their yards due to removal. Last spring I took a bunch of 20" to 28" cherry logs off a golf course (along a fairway) using my log arch and a Cushman Truckster and once the sawdust was raked up you couldn't even tell I'd been there.
Finnbear


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