# Englander Add-On Wood Furnace - Thoughts?



## Young_Buck (Jan 19, 2013)

Hi all,

This is my first post, as I have been looking through the forums for quite some time. My question is whether anyone on here has experience with the Englander add-on wood furnance (28-3500)? I currently have a old pre-EPA non-cat wood stove in the basement of our 1250 sq ft ranch home. The wood stove is old and not efficient and I've been considering replacing it with a newer EPA stove; probably either the Drolet HT2000 or a Englander NC30. However, I came across these add-on furnaces this morning and they seem to make a lot of sense. They can hook right up to your existing furnace duck work and pump the heat upstairs via a 850cm blower. Anyone have any history they can share on using them?

Thanks for your help! Look forward to learning from you all.

-YB


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## mizzou (Jan 19, 2013)

Young_Buck said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This is my first post, as I have been looking through the forums for quite some time. My question is whether anyone on here has experience with the Englander add-on wood furnance (28-3500)? I currently have a old pre-EPA non-cat wood stove in the basement of our 1250 sq ft ranch home. The wood stove is old and not efficient and I've been considering replacing it with a newer EPA stove; probably either the Drolet HT2000 or a Englander NC30. However, I came across these add-on furnaces this morning and they seem to make a lot of sense. They can hook right up to your existing furnace duck work and pump the heat upstairs via a 850cm blower. Anyone have any history they can share on using them?
> 
> ...



That is a lot of furnace for 1250 sq. ft. home. Might look at the mini caddy by psg.


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## Fyrebug (Jan 19, 2013)

From user reviews on the Internet it seems like a decent furnace. The main issues is the blower fan noise and no filters available or cold air return. 

If you wanna wait, we are introducing a Drolet furnace this summer. Full EPA certified which means wood consumption reduce by 1/3rd and no creosote.

Mini-Caddy might do the job as well but will be more expensive than the Englander.


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## Whitespider (Jan 19, 2013)

The Englander is at the total opposite end of the add-on furnace spectrum from the PSG Mini Caddy. I’m sure the Mini Caddy is an extremely nice unit… at over twice the price (with shipping) of the Englander 28-3500, which can be had at Lowes, Home Depot and such (under the brand name Summers Heat). The PSG has electronically controlled forced air draft/damper systems, whereas the 28-3500 is all manual control… and the overall dimensions of 28-3500 makes it smaller than the PSG. From what I’ve read I believe the Englander to be well made of heavy construction… even though it’s smaller it weighs over 160-pounds more than the Mini Caddy. The 28-3500 has a firebox large enough to accept 25-inch logs, PSG states just a bit over 18-inches. I believe PSG claims _up to_ 85% efficiency, the 28-3500 claims 60%; I doubt either claim is actually what you’d get in the “real world”… but I have really hard time believing 85% (real world), and would bet the 28-3500 would be a lot closer to the 60% then the PSG would be to the 85% (but that’s just a guess). One really interesting thing about the Englander is, rather than cast iron, it uses a firebrick grate instead.

Anyway… I’m thinkin’ real hard of an Englander… but I ain’t gone and actually touched one yet.


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## laynes69 (Jan 19, 2013)

My supervisor has a englander in her 1200 sqft ranch. It heats her home, but too well. She has a hard time keeping heat down and therefore it builds massive amounts of creosote. I would steer clear if your house isn't too big. Either a nice EPA stove, or the smaller caddy would be a much better option.


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## Fyrebug (Jan 19, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> The Englander is at the total opposite end of the add-on furnace spectrum from the PSG Mini Caddy. I’m sure the Mini Caddy is an extremely nice unit… at over twice the price (with shipping) of the Englander 28-3500, which can be had at Lowes, Home Depot and such (under the brand name Summers Heat). The PSG has electronically controlled forced air draft/damper systems, whereas the 28-3500 is all manual control… and the overall dimensions of 28-3500 makes it smaller than the PSG. From what I’ve read I believe the Englander to be well made of heavy construction… even though it’s smaller it weighs over 160-pounds more than the Mini Caddy. The 28-3500 has a firebox large enough to accept 25-inch logs, PSG states just a bit over 18-inches. I believe PSG claims _up to_ 85% efficiency, the 28-3500 claims 60%; I doubt either claim is actually what you’d get in the “real world”… but I have really hard time believing 85% (real world), and would bet the 28-3500 would be a lot closer to the 60% then the PSG would be to the 85% (but that’s just a guess). One really interesting thing about the Englander is, rather than cast iron, it uses a firebrick grate instead.
> 
> Anyway… I’m thinkin’ real hard of an Englander… but I ain’t gone and actually touched one yet.



Nice comparisons...

The 85% efficiencies for the Mini Caddy are real measured LHV values. Our users tell us because it is so efficient you can run into problems with the it because of a weaker draft and there is no way you can oversize venting or use too many elbows.


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## Young_Buck (Jan 19, 2013)

Thanks everyone. I kinda figured that the Englander furnace might be too much, but from everything that I've read you should go bigger in your stove purchase rather than buying something that is too small. I will probably end up getting a EPA stove this Spring hopefully on sale. Just looking for some good burn times and something that will throw the heat. As I mentioned, the two in my price range that seem to have good reviews are the HT2000 by Drolet and the NC30 by Englander. The local HD has the Englanders for $899, and the best price I've been able to find locally on the Drolets is $1100 (delivered). 

I just thought the idea of the add on furnace was a good one, but I don't think a newer large EPA will disappoint either.

Thanks again all.

YB


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## Fyrebug (Jan 19, 2013)

Keep in mind a wood stove is a 'zone heater' and you will have to find a way to distribute that heat.

Whereas a furnace distribute heat evenly throughout the house via ducting.

If you were reasonably happy with the old stove and it did much of the heating then an EPA stove should do the trick. 

There are many good deals right now for Drolet stoves. It's been a warm season and many retailers have too much stock. Check out Northern Tools, Menards and others.


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## zogger (Jan 19, 2013)

Fyrebug said:


> Keep in mind a wood stove is a 'zone heater' and you will have to find a way to distribute that heat.
> 
> Whereas a furnace distribute heat evenly throughout the house via ducting.
> 
> ...



Wood burners that absolutely require electricity could be a serious pain during a prolonged power outtage. Just when you might really need it the most..nasty winter ice storm, whatever, poof, now the clock is running, how long can you keep that thing running....Even if someone has a generator, they are always unknowns, they can and do bust whenever they feel like it, as is availability of adequate fuel supply. We saw this in hurricane sandy, people with a fi st full (had to leave the space from the censor sotware...) of benjamins, here ya go, five gallons max, or whatever that was, wait in line three hours, etc. Money sometimes aint enough to solve a problem.

To me, one of the main advantages of a simple woodstove is that they dont require electricity, and very few parts to wear out or replace.

Now a compromise would be a furnace that used a blower, but could function without it, and ALSO adequately analyze the install situation and incorporate regular old passive floor vents and/or transoms over doorways, like houses had in ye olden days to deal with heating and cooling.


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## Fyrebug (Jan 19, 2013)

Amish folks use our Caddy furnaces without the blower of course. Since they never have electricity their entire house is designed for natural air flow with large floor registers. Their furnace plenum is large and looks like an inverted funnel and feeds directly up the floor grate.

Therefore the problem is not necessarily the furnace but how you design the air flow in case of power outage.

We will soon be offering an ECM blower option on the PSG Caddy that will allow you to use a conventional car battery to fire the blower up in case of power outage. This kind of blower uses 80% less electricity than a regular blower and is DC driven.


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## mustangwagz (Jan 20, 2013)

*Love it!!*

Not sure about the caddy, but they are perdy! lol I've owned the englander add-on for 4 years now. I have nothing to say except good things and a few bad things. Lets start with the bad.. The blower motor is Loud, but its a blower..cmon. Mine is in my main living room. It blows freely into the house and heats it extremely well. I have a 1500 Sq-ft house, thats insulated about the same as an indians "TP" would be insulated. Its an old school house, built in early 1900's and then converted into a house in the 50's Its horrible for retaining heat. Old windows, old everything, and when it snows...my roof is always clean. lol I dont plastic the windows either, as i have no use for it. The Englander does heat it to above 85 on pretty much every day and night. WHen its 0 degree's outside, im sittin pretty and sweatin at about 90 degrees. We have window fans in our bedrooms. lol Another problem is the noisy thermostat...This is because its placed in a high turbulance area. I have done away with the honeywell and went with a snap disc thermostat. i also wired up a "manual" switch to kick it on when i want it on..This was a great retro-fitting to cut down on noise. As stated, the englander has no filter box or cold air return...but anyone who's good at fabricating can fix this. i did. I built my own filter box and it works like the cats meow! The filter box cuts down on the noise tremendously! With the snap disc and blower box, its VERY quiet now!! much so that i cant blame it for not hearing the ole-lady anymore...(Dang!!) The draft is all manual and with this, it keeps ppl from being lazy and shows and helps ppl understand the importance of operating your stove efficiently, and properly. A Stove pipe thermometer will help in aiding, along with "watching the glass" on the door. Confused? ill explain. Wet wood/green wood will make creosote. Burning to low of temps will make creosote as well. The first signs you will see of improper burning will show up on you glass door. It will make dark spots on your glass. "brown" areas to be exact, or black spots if its really bad. I put my stove pipe thermometer 18" above furnace, and run it at NO LESS than 300 degree's and my creosote is usually very minimal. Getting the hang of the manual draft is usually tricky, but once achieved, its a good thing. Different woods burn at different temps, so a little adjustment is needed from time to time but fine tuning can be done as needed with the top draft slide. Oil your blower motor too, forgot to mention that while talking about blower. Mine crapped out after 3 years, but i never oiled it...i learned my less one morning at about 2 am... It locked up! mine went about an hour without blowing. I quickly ran to garage and grabbed another blower from an old furnace..pretty lucky to have an extra one laying around. Luckily the temp replacement worked good till i got a new blower. That was the only time i had to spend any type of big money on the furnace. Burn times are about 5-6 on typical wood. Ive gotten 12 hours outta mine before, but that was with massive pieces of elm that burned hot and slow. 

I know my post was all rambled together, but it does tell a good bit about my personal opinions and experiences with the furnace. This summer i intend on adding secondary burn tubes to increase its efficiency. Ive read alot about them and seen a few ppl add them to the furnace..and i feel i can make it work a bit better, and look a bit prettier. All in all, i wouldnt spend any more than i did on any other stove for burning wood. coal is another story, kinda wish this one would let ya burn coal but thats just how life works. (when i bought the ole girl, i never planned on working for a coal company...lol) If all else fails, sell it. There's a ton of ppl out there that would like one of these furnaces. I run in to ppl at home depot or lowes that are thinking about them and i tell them my story. For the price, it Cannot be beat by any means. for the amt of heat these things pipe out, they are inexpensive! Customer service, (should you need it) is great and quick too. 

Quick suggestions: If you buy one, buy a little generator too if ya got the cash..it'll save your butt on days the power goes out. The stove does throw a heck of a pile of heat without the blwoer running, but not sure how good it is for the stove. Also, buy a few tons of sand and some palm tree's and some decorations you'd see at the beach...cuz if your house is like mine...it'll feel like florida in the winter months! (it'll also deter unwanted visitors from showing up cuz they cannot take the heat that your house is pumping out! lol...it works all the time!)


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## Whitespider (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks *mustangwagz*,
That's exactly the final testimony I needed to cement the decision my mind... there will be one in place of that POS EPA thing I have now. Manual controls and creosote don't concern me; non-EPA and manual control is all I've ever used... no doubt I'll "catch-on" to it in short order.

If you don't mind answering... how do you like the "firebrick grate" and ash removal systems? Any problems?


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## mustangwagz (Jan 20, 2013)

Here's another thread about this stove Whitespider. Read it and see what others have to say. You'll see me posting near the end of it and lending some "burning" advice to someone who just purchased one. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/82179.htm

As for my opinions on firebrick grate and Ash pan...Love em both man. These were 2 of the top things i liked about this stove when i seen it in the store. Lets start with firebrick bottom.... Ive never seen one before, i was kinda puzzled about it myself. Would it work? Does it help hold heat? Will it last? Answers from me and my 4 years of usage and testing...Yes it works great!! It holds heat, and holds up to the wood. Brick lasts pretty long..none of mine are broke yet or even cracked. 2 of my outter wall brick are cracked but not falling apart yet so i aint pissin with em. The bottom is unscathed so far. Keep the slots clean and you'll be fine. I run mine with a bottom and top draft. The bottom draft keeps the big damp pieces burning and will allow for a complete burnup of all coals and charred logs. When re loading, Fill the hog up, take your poker (i suggest a poker thats got a 90 degree bend on it) and then run it from side to side in the slots...do so from the ash pan door..this will open your slots and allow air to rush in causing the fire to take off like crazy..(my kid on mountain dew is the same way..) So the firebrick grate, neat and holds the heat allowing longer and more heat supply. 

Ash Pan System: Now lets talk about an ashpan..this aint no little ashpan like the woodchucks and hot blasts got. This was one of the BIGGEST reasons i wanted this stove.. We all hate fiddling with ash's. They're dusty, dirty, hot, and work great in the driveway and garden. But who wants to empty their ashpan everyday or every couple? "F-THAT!" heres my opinion and views. I love it dood. its huge!! (or could say "HOOOOOOGGGGEEEE") in comparison to most of the other leading brands of stoves. I empty mine maybe every week? Once a week if that. This thing holds a pile of ashes. i then save my ashes for when the driveway gets bad and the ole-lady cant make it up the driveway. I have no prblems, but she does....we wont discuss that. lol ANYHOW, it works great however there are 2 little quirks i have come to work around. First is the handles on front and back of the pan. SOMETIMES they come in contact with the bottom spin draft bolt...Solution, SMACK them in the center with a hammer. This will push them back and fold them in a little bit allowing the door bolt to NEVER come in contact with it ever again. Problem solved. Another Thing ive noticed is, sometimes your ashes will fall beside the pan OR if pan fills up, they'll spew over the sides, down beside the ash pan...Solution?...Build yourself a small metal garden hoe (or similar...) This will make clean out easier!! give it a long handle so ya aint gotta stick your arm in the damn thing, cuz this girl gets hot! Lol I took a piece of flat stock, and a pice of angle iron and made a "garden hoe" looking device to rake out all the ashes. it works great for me and i made my neighbor one too he loves it for cleaning his. Said i need to patent it. lol Yeahh...ok!! But thats my opinions and thoughts about the bottom end of this furnace and the grate system. 

Metal grates eventually fall apart and thin-out. Im sure something similar will happen to this one, but till then i love it! Hope this helps!


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## Whitespider (Jan 20, 2013)

Yep, thanks man, that helps a bunch.
I was a bit concerned about the durability of the "fire brick" grate system... not so much after your post. Cleaning/clearing the holes or slots in any sort of grate is just part of the reload process... doesn't matter what type of appliance. That's the nice thing about "shaker" grates... but manually clearing them with some sort of tool ain't a big deal. Heck man, I have all sorts of "hoes", "rakes" and "pokers" that I've made over the years... some with short handles, others with long handles, I'm set to go.
And... Oh Yeah! A huge ash pan is a must... especially on a furnace. I cleaned the ash from my old smoke dragon every 10-days or so, and I really miss not having to mess with ashes every day.


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## ajr (Jan 20, 2013)

Try checking out the Daka 521 cast iron grate awseome ash pan dayton blower very easy controls.I use one to heat a 2400 sq ft 2 story farm house on the open praire in central Il.17 degrees out now 75 inside love it very easy to use.


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## Overmann55 (Jan 10, 2014)

laynes69 said:


> My supervisor has a englander in her 1200 sqft ranch. It heats her home, but too well. She has a hard time keeping heat down and therefore it builds massive amounts of creosote. I would steer clear if your house isn't too big. Either a nice EPA stove, or the smaller caddy would be a much better option.



Here is an option if you have creosote issues... i am not sure about"Keeping the heat down" it still throws a ton of heat... but I can turn it almost off on both air feeds and it always burs flawlessly with little or no creosote. I added secondary burn tubes and it is super easy to run. average burn times are longer. I have a how-to posted on Youtube. 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1ip37bke8MviPj6_JM1KA
It is like like a different stove... I can't say enough about it... if you have a 28-3500... and you are frustrated like I was - it makes a HUGE difference.


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## mustangwagz (Jan 14, 2014)

I have often thought about pulling the smoke shelf forward, allowing flames to rise up the flue and keep it hotter, while burning lower and producing less heat. i have yet to try this. Going on like 5 years with the Good ole englander. I removed the Honeywell Thermostat and replaced it with a snap disc. this cut down on the noise by TONS!


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 15, 2014)

mustangwagz said:


> I have often thought about pulling the smoke shelf forward, allowing flames to rise up the flue and keep it hotter, while burning lower and producing less heat. i have yet to try this. Going on like 5 years with the Good ole englander. I removed the Honeywell Thermostat and replaced it with a snap disc. this cut down on the noise by TONS!


got a part number or link to the snap disc you used?


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## ziggo_2 (Jan 15, 2014)

looks like a better furnace than the others at the same price level. i could get used to a glass door.


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## aaronmach1 (Jan 16, 2014)

ziggo_2 said:


> looks like a better furnace than the others at the same price level. i could get used to a glass door.


just got one last week and its working great now. Burns a little different than my old one so theres a short learning curve but its working great now!


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