# Stihl 064 with 066BB, along with a complete rebuild of the bottom end



## epicklein22 (Feb 8, 2009)

First off, I would like to thank Lakeside for the great pictures, details in this thread on splitting cases and reassembly, http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=40590&highlight=066+splitting+case. Secondly, I would like to thank Jacob J for the help his has given me so far and in the future on the 064 with a 066 big bore kit. He has done this set up numerous times and has the insight of what is needed to make it work.

While I am not as fast as Brad, I will try to post the same amount of pictures. So this thread will be a little slow and I will update as I go along.

So first off is splitting the 064 case and pressing out the bearings. With the help of the fore mentioned thread and my dad's experience of doing bottom ends on old 2-stroke dirtbikes, My dad and I plunged into the 064.

The reason for the splitting of the case was due to a bad pto bearing. The polymer retainer let go.

Now to the pictures:

PTO side, splitting the case. Went surprisingly easy.
















PTO side bearing shell. The ball bearings are held in by a plastic/polymer retainer and it had let go. The whole thing just fell apart when touching it,





Here is how we knocked the crank out. We set it up on the wood blocks, with the crank free of restriction and gave it about 3 medium taps with a dead blow hammer. Didn't take much at all. Very simple.





The prize:


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## stihlboy (Feb 8, 2009)

the first bb kit i got that was messed up had the same green tint to it the new one is black


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## blsnelling (Feb 8, 2009)

Way to go. You know we like the pics Do you have your BB kit yet? How's the combustion chamber and squish band look?


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## epicklein22 (Feb 8, 2009)

Continued:

Pushing out the flywheel bearing. I didn't care about the seal, so a properly sized socket and the vise and it popped right out.










PTO bearing. Not enough recess for the bearing to push all the way out, so my dad and I cut some wood blocks for extra space.


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## epicklein22 (Feb 8, 2009)

Up next, a lot of cleaning and then I need to grind on the case for the BB piston to fit. I have a bucking spike hole that is broken, so I am gonna fix that too. Then tomorrow, I am gonna pick up a 6mm x 1 tap and redo the case bolt holes.


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## epicklein22 (Feb 8, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Way to go. You know we like the pics Do you have your BB kit yet? How's the combustion chamber and squish band look?



I am gonna go eat and then I will post a few pics of the BB kit.


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## epicklein22 (Feb 8, 2009)

A couple BB pictures I shoot real quick when doing the case:

The exhaust port has tons of casting flash. I plan to knock that down and then polish it up really good.





Squish area. Tell me if it looks bad guys. I don't quite know what to look for.


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## excess650 (Feb 8, 2009)

I dunno if its reflection in the photo or not, but the top edge of the squish band doesn't look quite right. Just to clarify....

Does the shiny, machined surface go all the way to to the cylinder bore?

Does it appear pretty even all the way around?

If yes to both, its good to go!


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## blsnelling (Feb 8, 2009)

Your cylinder has the same casting problems I'm seeing on all recent 066BBs. Look at all the "sand" finish in the combustion chamber. The squish land goes right into the chamber with a sharp edge and not rounded. Also, there's little to no actual land around the outer perimeter. It's nearly flat all the way from the cylinder wall to the dome. Make sure you check your squish before firing it up. The last one I did varied from .016 to .011 *with *a gasket. The line that you see right down the middle of the head is an actual crack. It is not a ridge. Look at the roof of the exhaust port. It is 100% flat. Scary stuff for a 2-stroke engine builder. I really want to like these kits, but there are several serious problems with them right now. Rumor has it that a new smaller combustion chamber and a raised exhaust port floor is in the makes. That can't come soon enough. I'm not here to sling mud, but won't hide the truth either. I'll be the first to praise them when the fixes come.


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## excess650 (Feb 8, 2009)

Brad,
I just took another look at the Mahle cylinder on my dining room table. The squish band doesn't look any different than that in that BB cylinder, provided that the machined part on the BB goes out to the bore(mine does). As for the transition from the squish to the combustion chamber, its almost flat until the edge of the clearly defined dome. The biggest difference that I can see in that part of the cylinder is that the BB definitely has a rougher combustion chamber, and the parting lines are evident.

I did think it odd that despite having a larger bore, the BB cylinder has smaller ports. I would have expected them to be the same size, or slightly larger than OEM.


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## epicklein22 (Feb 8, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Your cylinder has the same casting problems I'm seeing on all recent 066BBs. Look at all the "sand" finish in the combustion chamber. The squish land goes right into the chamber with a sharp edge and not rounded. Also, there's little to no actual land around the outer perimeter. It's nearly flat all the way from the cylinder wall to the dome. Make sure you check your squish before firing it up. The last one I did varied from .016 to .011 *with *a gasket. The line that you see right down the middle of the head is an actual crack. It is not a ridge. Look at the roof of the exhaust port. It is 100% flat. Scary stuff for a 2-stroke engine builder. I really want to like these kits, but there are several serious problems with them right now. Rumor has it that a new smaller combustion chamber and a raised exhaust port floor is in the makes. That can't come soon enough. I'm not here to sling mud, but won't hide the truth either. I'll be the first to praise them when the fixes come.



Hmm, not what I want to hear, but I need to hear it. I will take a good look at it and see if it is acceptable before grinding on it. While the nikisil looks good, the rest is less than desirable, but what can you ask for a third of the price of OEM? While I don't know squat about ports, the exhaust sure does look really squarish. I have a 066 slug and jug if need be........


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## epicklein22 (Feb 8, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> The line that you see right down the middle of the head is an actual crack. .



How is that a crack? Wouldn't that make this kit junk?


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## stihlboy (Feb 8, 2009)

epicklein22 said:


> How is that a crack? Wouldn't that make this kit junk?



well you said it not me!!! i understand these cylinders can't be perfect, but i'd like to see a little improvement. BTW baileys customer service is second to none they have a customer for life!


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## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2009)

Just make sure to check the squish on all four corners. The one I put on Stihlboys 066 was .016 on three sides but only .011 on the other. That renders that cylinder unuseable. Baileys did replace it, but the new one doesn't look much better. We'll just have to bolt it up and see.


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## Lakeside53 (Feb 9, 2009)

stihlboy said:


> well you said it not me!!! i understand these cylinders can't be perfect, but i'd like to see a little improvement. BTW baileys customer service is second to none they have a customer for life!


 
I disagree. They can be "perfect"... at least in the sense of "fit for function", but it's just easier to hand another to the guys that complain than to fix the problems. This latest issue with squish is QA 101... Obviously nobody in China checks, or if they do have a very slack spec. Selling junk and smoothing the waters with "customer service" is the wrong approach - why..that's just like Harbor Fright....opcorn:


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## BobL (Feb 9, 2009)

epicklein22, your jug




looks like it has the exact same comb chamber marks as my first kit





Brad, back in your 066 BB thread you called the chamber marks a casting line - are you now claiming it's a crack?

I finally got my free replacement BB kit from Baileys last week (I had another part on backorder that held up the order - decided to wait cos shipping costs to Oz are not cheap). New kit looks different, firstly cosmetic changes, cylinder and part of lower inner piston are black and there are significantly fewer comb chamber marks - I'm at work right now - will post a pic when I get home if anyone is interested 

I've made a pressure testing rig using bits and pieces from the lab but haven't had time to do anything with it because I'm distracted by mucking about with the 880.


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## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2009)

Crack was probably not the best choice of words. It is the line from what appears to be halves of a mold, but that line is actually a "crevice" in the combustion chamber.


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## Tzed250 (Feb 9, 2009)

Looks to me like the de-comp fitting is way to far into the cylinder. Lake is right, if this is an example of the QA at that plant it says a lot to the fact that this stuff is not ready for prime time. Casting flaws, slack machining tolerances, rings that hang in the ports, heavy wristpins, sketchy circlips, etc. The squish thing is poor. It is bone simple to hold .005" in a machining operatation. Set the spec at .025 +.003/-.002, not that hard. I could see maybe trying to make one these things work on a beater that is on its last legs, but there is no way on this green earth that I would install this stuff on my 660, especially as a "hop-up"!


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## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2009)

Tzed250 said:


> Looks to me like the de-comp fitting is way to far into the cylinder.



The plug I put in Stihlkid's stuck through like that too. Perhaps the head isn't as thick as stock.


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## Tzed250 (Feb 9, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> The plug I put in Stihlkid's stuck through like that too. Perhaps the head isn't as thick as stock.



Do you have a Mahle and a Baileys you can measure?


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## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2009)

Tzed250 said:


> Do you have a Mahle and a Baileys you can measure?



Not off of the saw.


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## epicklein22 (Feb 9, 2009)

That decomp plug is the one I pulled off my 088, but I believe they are the same as the 066.

I have a mahle 066 cylinder.......I am gonna go over the BB kit with a fine toothed comb and see what I want to do before grinding on it.


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## Tzed250 (Feb 9, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Not off of the saw.



I was thinking "eye-crometer" with a small scale or depth rod on calipers...


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## BobL (Feb 9, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> The plug I put in Stihlkid's stuck through like that too. Perhaps the head isn't as thick as stock.



Just ducked home to pick up a doc so did a quick and dirty check of the thickness of the head. Both BB Kits are 6 spark plug threads thick, Mahle is 5 threads thick. Also I withdraw what I said about the new kit having "significantly fewer comb chamber marks". That's come about because my eyes are crap - using a head mounted magnified it looks like the old and new comb chamb marks are the same - sorry - no time for phots.


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## stihlboy (Feb 9, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Not off of the saw.



i do lol


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## epicklein22 (Feb 9, 2009)

Ok, a little boring update. I will post some pictures of it tomorrow when my dad and I go about putting in the new bearings and seals.

I grinded on the case to fit the BB piston skirts. I used a base gasket as my template.

Tapped the bolt holes out to 6mm x 1, now the 066 cylinder bolts fit. Brad mentioned in his thread that some of the bolt holes were blind. On my case, I didn't find any blind holes and was able to tap them all the way through and didn't have to cut off the cutter part on the tap. All bolts go down far enough.

Fixed the bolt hole near the serial number. It was chipped out and I put in a metal shim and then fitted some JB weld and fiberglass to secure it up. 

Took a look at the BB kit again. Can't see anything obviously wrong. So I am gonna give it a go and hope for the best. If everything goes together smooth, I should have all together in the next few days and out with a tree crew next week for real field testing. 

Pictures tomorrow!!!


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## blsnelling (Feb 9, 2009)

Sounds good. Keep us updated.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 10, 2009)

Tzed250 said:


> Looks to me like the de-comp fitting is way to far into the cylinder. Lake is right, if this is an example of the QA at that plant it says a lot to the fact that this stuff is not ready for prime time. Casting flaws, slack machining tolerances, rings that hang in the ports, heavy wristpins, sketchy circlips, etc. The squish thing is poor. It is bone simple to hold .005" in a machining operatation. Set the spec at .025 +.003/-.002, not that hard. I could see maybe trying to make one these things work on a beater that is on its last legs, but there is no way on this green earth that I would install this stuff on my 660, especially as a "hop-up"!



If you think this QA is bad, you should have seen the run of late '97/early '98 Mahle 046 cylinders. Those were hands down the worst cylinders I've ever seen anywhere. Misaligned castings, irregular/asymmetrical ports, spark plug hole distortions- the whole nine yards. And these were Mahle cylinders on brand new units. There was also a run of Mahle cylinders on the early 440 that had a lip cast in the bottom of the lower transfers that puddled fuel and caused the saw to die after idling for a bit. Stihl had us pull all the cylinders off and grind that lip off by hand. Stihl only reimbursed us an hour labor on each unit we did. :censored:


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## mtngun (Feb 10, 2009)

Tzed250 said:


> Looks to me like the de-comp fitting is way to far into the cylinder. Lake is right, if this is an example of the QA at that plant it says a lot to the fact that this stuff is not ready for prime time. Casting flaws, slack machining tolerances, rings that hang in the ports, heavy wristpins, sketchy circlips, etc. The squish thing is poor. It is bone simple to hold .005" in a machining operatation. Set the spec at .025 +.003/-.002, not that hard. I could see maybe trying to make one these things work on a beater that is on its last legs, but there is no way on this green earth that I would install this stuff on my 660, especially as a "hop-up"!



Easy, Tzed..... the only known serious problem at the moment is with rings hanging in the ports, and only on a recent batch that had unconventional rings.

Unless the de-comp is hitting the piston, it's not a deal breaker. Have we heard a single report of a piston being damaged by a protruding de-comp valve on a BB kit ?

The circlips that came with my BB kit were conventional Stihl type, no complaints there.

Squish depends not only on the cylinder but also the case, the crank, the piston, and if the piston rocks in the bore. Squish on my BB kit/064 setup was fine, as I posted on a previous thread. A few thou difference could be due to measurement error, and even if it is real, it wouldn't be a huge issue if installed with a conventional 0.025" squish. Did anyone measure the the supposedly bad squish band with a precision depth gage, measuring between the base of the cylinder and the squish band ?

On my BB kit, casting quality was far superior to some of the Golf pistons I have seen. Casting quality inside the ports was identical to the 064's OEM cylinder -- no better or worse. So there's a faint part line on the casting -- big deal. 

Does a BMW have better QC than a Hyundai ? Probably, but I can't afford a BMW. I can't even afford a Hyundai.

Thanks for the detailed report, epicklein22. Keep it coming.


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## stihl only (Feb 10, 2009)

mtngun said:


> Does a BMW have better QC than a Hyundai ?



Hyundai isn't made in China, and I bet the QC is way closer on the Hyundai to BMW that you think!

Bottom line, there IS no QC on this after market stuff!


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## epicklein22 (Feb 10, 2009)

Alright, update time. Today didn't quite go as well as the other, but the deed is done and the case is buttoned back up.

First some pictures of what I grinded on yesterday, so the BB piston will fit. Look closely and you can see where the crank was rubbing before when the bearing was letting go.













Here is the clutch side bearing. My dad and I froze the bearings and then heated the steel insert with a propane torch. I know, I know, maybe not the proper way but it went in well. A little spit test showed that the steel insert was hot enough and a socket pushed it inward toward the case. Then I installed the oiler and pushed it back out to that.

]





Flywheel side went the same way, except no oiler part. Just push till it seats on the innards.


Now to putting in the crank and assembling the case. Now I tried to follow the instructions of Lakeside about the clutch spider and a tube, but it wasn't working for me. It kept spinning the crank, not bringing it through the crank. Tried some other methods and nothing was working. So a little tapping gave me enough movement so I could start the bolts. Then I slowly tightened everything up using the bolts. I highly recommend buying some longer bolts and use those to put the cases back together. It went together so smooth once the bolts started and I didn't have to worry about messing up the bearings. A small tap to center the crank and everything was turning super buttery.











Then the fun started. Flywheel side seal went in well. Then the clutch side. A tap on the socket showed we needed a little more and it was good to go. A couple taps and it is in too far!!! ####!! So we had to rip out the stihl seal and put in the Baileys seal. I think a good idea to put in the clutch seal would be to use the oiler to press it in. That is what I did with the Baileys seal and it seemed to work well. The case is fully ready to go. Not as easily turning as I would like, but I contribute that to the new seals. Nothing is touching or rubbing. If this isn't normal, tell me now. 












Started to put a little bit of it together and found out my oiler is junk. It will not loosen up and the pump looks to be bad. So now I need a oiler before it hits wood.


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## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2009)

Looking good. If the crank was nice and easy to turn before the seals went in, you're good to go. It is surprising how much resistance the seals create, relatively speaking. I assume you lubed the seals and bearings?


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## epicklein22 (Feb 10, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Looking good. If the crank was nice and easy to turn before the seals went in, you're good to go. It is surprising how much resistance the seals create, relatively speaking. I assume you lubed the seals and bearings?



Good deal. I greased the seals and oiled the bearings.

Tomorrow, I will slot the cylinder. Brad, how much did you bring each hole inward?


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## blsnelling (Feb 10, 2009)

epicklein22 said:


> Tomorrow, I will slot the cylinder. Brad, how much did you bring each hole inward?



It doesn't take much at all. Left to right is the same. Just have to bring the top and bottom towards each other.

This pic makes it look worse than it is. Split the diffence between the two holes and it doesn't take much.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 10, 2009)

You might be able to get your oiler working simply by taking it apart and cleaning it with aerosol carb cleaner followed by some PB blaster or equivalent. I've saved many an oiler that was 'froze up'. 

The only way to keep from pushing those PTO side seals in too far is to just be very careful. I've only ruined one in about the 700 cases or so I've assembled. All it takes is one. 

Looking good so far. Remember that the holes on the Bailey's cylinder aren't necessarily the same as an OEM cylinder so your slotting operation will have to be touch and go.


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## epicklein22 (Feb 10, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> You might be able to get your oiler working simply by taking it apart and cleaning it with aerosol carb cleaner followed by some PB blaster or equivalent. I've saved many an oiler that was 'froze up'.
> 
> The only way to keep from pushing those PTO side seals in too far is to just be very careful. I've only ruined one in about the 700 cases or so I've assembled. All it takes is one.
> 
> Looking good so far. Remember that the holes on the Bailey's cylinder aren't necessarily the same as an OEM cylinder so your slotting operation will have to be touch and go.



The oiler is junk. I already took it apart and tired to clean it up. I put the rod back in and still too hard. I assume the actual pump part is frozen.

Ya, it sucked fitting that seal in too far. Dad just got a little too cared away when he tapped on it. I did the Baileys one and tried to be super cautious. I hope that Baileys seal holds up. Quality sucks compared to the stihl one.

Ya, I will be going slow on the cylinder holes. You think a chainsaw file will get the job done?

Also, I plan on polishing up the exhaust. I know some say that polishing does little for performance, but it can't hurt and people have been doing it for years on all engines. No true port work, just knocking the casting flash off and then polishing it up real nice. Will I have to rebevel the port lips to the cylinder?


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## Jacob J. (Feb 10, 2009)

No beveling will be required unless there wasn't enough to begin with. Were you able to get the adjustment screw and pump plunger out of the oiler housing? It's a pretty simple pump really and rarely ever wears out (unless it was pumping used automotive motor oil its whole life.)

A chainsaw file will work fine but it will be slow. I use a 1/4" carbide deburring bit in my Makita cordless for slotting mounts. 

The polishing will help with carbon build-up, that's the gain there.


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## epicklein22 (Feb 11, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> No beveling will be required unless there wasn't enough to begin with. Were you able to get the adjustment screw and pump plunger out of the oiler housing? It's a pretty simple pump really and rarely ever wears out (unless it was pumping used automotive motor oil its whole life.)
> 
> A chainsaw file will work fine but it will be slow. I use a 1/4" carbide deburring bit in my Makita cordless for slotting mounts.
> 
> The polishing will help with carbon build-up, that's the gain there.



Good info, the beveling from the factory looks good.

The oiler is toast. This oiler came off my 066 parts saw. The entire saw has seen a lot of corrosion while sitting. I don't know what was used for oil either, but I don't think it was bar oil. Seems like ATF. I will either have to find one locally, on ebay or here. I am gonna put the saw together anyways and sees how it runs, just no cutting yet.


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## excess650 (Feb 11, 2009)

Nice work so far! Since you were less than thrilled with Bailey's seal and you need a pump anyway, why not get another Stihl seal? Do it right the first time and you won't be doubting it later.

Chain files work pretty quickly on aluminum, but clog up quickly as well.

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## Lakeside53 (Feb 11, 2009)

While on oils seals.. the FW side of the 064 needs special attention. There are two different noses on the FW - one protrudes deeper than the other and can press into the seal. If set wrong, you won't notice as the "long nose" FW actualy pushes the seal in deeper, but it continues to rub, and fails in a short time. if you set the seal too deep, it will rub on the bearing.


There's a tech note on this - I'll try to dig it up.


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## excess650 (Feb 11, 2009)

Lakeside53 said:


> While on oils seals.. the FW side of the 064 needs special attention. There are two different noses on the FW - one protrudes deeper than the other and can press into the seal. If set wrong, you won't notice as the "long nose" FW actualy pushes the seal in deeper, but it continues to rub, and fails in a short time. if you set the seal too deep, it will rub on the bearing.
> 
> 
> There's a tech note on this - I'll try to dig it up.



I tried to rep ya again Andy, but I'm out.


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## epicklein22 (Feb 11, 2009)

Lakeside53 said:


> While on oils seals.. the FW side of the 064 needs special attention. There are two different noses on the FW - one protrudes deeper than the other and can press into the seal. If set wrong, you won't notice as the "long nose" FW actualy pushes the seal in deeper, but it continues to rub, and fails in a short time. if you set the seal too deep, it will rub on the bearing.
> 
> 
> There's a tech note on this - I'll try to dig it up.



Interesting. It is set below the casting currently. I will take the flywheel back off and give it a look. How deep would you suggest it to be set?


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## epicklein22 (Feb 11, 2009)

Cylinder is on and everything clears. I smoothed out the exhaust port and now just need to check squish.

Here are the pictures:







Not the ideal port shape, but it will work. The bevels were good besides the bottom of the exhaust. It was pretty sharp from the factory, so I smoothed that out some. Make sure you check you kit before installing.





Port pictures. I used a chainsaw file, emery cloth and then some 600 grit sand paper. Not perfectly smooth or shiny (It took quite a while to achieve what I did. Now I know why you guys use dermels), but way better than stock.





Here are the holes slotted out. As Brad mentioned in his thread; from left to right, the measurements are the same on the 064 and 066. Front and back they are different. So slot the holes towards each other till it fits comfortably. Make sure there is no major restriction when tightening the bolts, you want a little amount of play. Try to keep the slots even, but it isn't too crucial. The piston will center the cylinder for you. I used an old 404 chainsaw file to slot the holes. Slow work, but hey; I got more time than money. If you look at the bottom of the picture, you can see some of the exhaust port work I did.





Piston fits good. No drag from the gasket either. To slot the cylinder gasket, I used a hole punch and placed it on the flat spot on my vise. If the surface isn't rigid, you will bend the gasket up when slotting it.





Alright guys, tell me if this seal is in too far......it is around 1-2mm deep. Seems alright, but I still think this bottom end might be a little firm when turning over. It might be seal drag though. I have never put in new seals before, so I don't know what they feel like.





Little promo for Wiha tools here. This t27 wrench I picked up from Baileys last year is just a great tool. German quality and 9 bucks. It makes tightening all bolts easier and is especially good for cylinder bolts. I just got the 4mm and it was like 4 or 5 dollars. Very nice for the older stihl saws and huskys. My dad is a pressman for a printing company and the repairman swears by Wiha tools. "I work on Japanese machines all day with german tools"


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## Jacob J. (Feb 11, 2009)

Your flywheel side seal looks good. I set mine on 064s about 2mm below the surface. So which oil pump was it you're needing? 064 or 066?


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## Rookie1 (Feb 11, 2009)

Very nice pics Epic.Nice informative thread too.:greenchainsaw:


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## epicklein22 (Feb 11, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> Your flywheel side seal looks good. I set mine on 064s about 2mm below the surface. So which oil pump was it you're needing? 064 or 066?



064. Are they different that than 066 oilers? I never had the oiler from the 064 and was gonna use the 066 one I have and then found it was junk after taking it apart. I was gonna go lurking around the shop of the tree company I work for....and then hit up a saw shop that has some parts saws.....but anyone has one on here....I am interested.


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## epicklein22 (Feb 11, 2009)

Rookie1 said:


> Very nice pics Epic.*Nice informative thread too*.:greenchainsaw:



That is my goal. To show how to do a bottom end and the 064 with a 066 BB top end.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 11, 2009)

epicklein22 said:


> 064. Are they different that than 066 oilers? I never had the oiler from the 064 and was gonna use the 066 one I have and then found it was junk after taking it apart. I was gonna go lurking around the shop of the tree company I work for....and then hit up a saw shop that has some parts saws.....but anyone has one on here....I am interested.



Yeah the 064 and 066 oilers are completely different and not interchangeable. That's why you confused me because you mentioned 066 oiler but I thought you were building up an 064 case. So you'll need to get an 064 oiler and the the hose kit.


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## Martinm210 (Feb 12, 2009)

Awesome thread. I like the use of the vise, that's a very clever way of pressing all those bearing and such out.

Just did some slotting on my jug tonight, and getting reading to shave the case.

Great pics, very helpful


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## RiverRat2 (Feb 12, 2009)

*Good thread!!!!*

Very nice work!!!!!


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## epicklein22 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> Yeah the 064 and 066 oilers are completely different and not interchangeable. That's why you confused me because you mentioned 066 oiler but I thought you were building up an 064 case. So you'll need to get an 064 oiler and the the hose kit.



Thanks for the information. I will start my search then for an 064 oiler.

So if I snag this and this, will I be good to go? The oiler mentioned 064 and 066.....

http://tinyurl.com/bqgbxk

http://tinyurl.com/cok8so


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## excess650 (Feb 18, 2009)

any progress on the 064/066BB?opcorn:


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## epicklein22 (Feb 18, 2009)

Got an oiler coming my way and some 395 rings on order. I was gonna put the saw together without an oiler and just test run it, but broke a ring when installing the cylinder. Lucky 395 rings are the same, so I went with those over another pair of BB rings from Baileys. So hopefully on Friday night, this puppy will on my garage floor idling away and saturday I can do some work with it.


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## blsnelling (Feb 24, 2009)

Any updates?


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## epicklein22 (Feb 24, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Any updates?



Got the oiler, still waiting on the rings. I can't make it to the dealer to pickup the 395 rings till friday.:censored: I wanted to have this thing done last week, but the order was slowwwww.:censored:


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## blsnelling (Feb 24, 2009)

I hate waiting on parts too, lol.


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## epicklein22 (Feb 27, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I hate waiting on parts too, lol.



Uhhh, still not there! This is starting to get ridiculous. Over 2 weeks now. I guess the orders got screwed up....

Still a good dealer though. He has good prices and caters to a lot of professionals. So good products are in stock. He gave me a sweet Oregon book with all the products. Looks like I might get all the scored jugs with aluminum transfer too, instead of him throwing them out. That would be a nice hookup....


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## Wet1 (Mar 2, 2009)

epicklein22 said:


> Uhhh, still not there! This is starting to get ridiculous. Over 2 weeks now. I guess the orders got screwed up....
> 
> Still a good dealer though. He has good prices and caters to a lot of professionals. So good products are in stock. He gave me a sweet Oregon book with all the products. Looks like I might get all the scored jugs with aluminum transfer too, instead of him throwing them out. That would be a nice hookup....



Any word when your parts will be in? I'm looking foward to seeing how this will come out...


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## epicklein22 (Mar 2, 2009)

Wet1 said:


> Any word when your parts will be in? I'm looking foward to seeing how this will come out...



I hear ya. I wanted this thing to be done long ago. If you want to do this project; I would dump at least the rings. Most get rid of the circlips and wrist pin too. I will eventually replace those also, but just want to get it running first.

The dealer is gonna email me when they come in. I guess he ordered a 395 p&c with the order and that has caused a back up. I am also waiting on a clutch drum assembly for my partner p500. 

I got a tree buddy that just blew up his 066 (bearing let go) and I want to let him borrow it and get some real time behind it. If he likes it, then I will be very happy.


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## kevin j (Mar 2, 2009)

I am curious about the protruding extra threads on the spark plug. 

I'm not very knowledgeable on saw engines, but in two cycle motorcycle engines, the threads might build up with carbon and take out the head threads when the plug is removed. More often, they heat up and the fine sharp edge can cause preignition then detonation.

How much of an issue is this? apparently not so much concerns on saws? Constant rpm is totally different application I assume....

kcj


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## epicklein22 (Mar 6, 2009)

It is alive!!!! 

Pictures and a little more detail in the next day or so.


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## blsnelling (Mar 7, 2009)

We want them now!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad you got it running


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## epicklein22 (Mar 8, 2009)

Ok, a little recap from where I was three weeks or so ago. I snapped a bailey's ring putting the jug on, so I needed a new ring or rings. Instead of going with the Bailey's rings; I went with some husky 395 rings. Those rings took 3 weeks to come in, but I was able to ride my motorcycle up in the beautiful weather friday and pick them up. Before assembling the saw, I took out the 1mm bailey's base gasket and tried a stihl .5mm base gasket. My dad has some old school caliper reading devices and I got right around .030 squish. That was very surprising to me....with the bailey's gasket it was over .040.....so I went with the Stihl gasket. I also had to go with a newer 066 coil, as the 064 coil was dead.

Friday night I installed everything and fired it up. I was nervous that it might blow, but started up quickly. It vibrated quite a bit for the first minute or so, but soon went away after that. I don't know what the problem was, but it seemed to solve itself. I made sure the saw turned over smooth and without any rubbing or notching before starting. After that, the saw has been running sweet. Just got back inside from cutting on my cherry test log. It cuts well and sounds very, very nice with the DP muffler. Just need a few minor parts and some clutch springs (can't get the chain to stop while idling); then it is off to my tree buddy for some real use. He just had his 066 blow a bearing, so he will appreciate having this one around for a while.

Now for some pictures:
For a under 300 bucks, I have this:


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## epicklein22 (Mar 8, 2009)

For anyone wanting to attempt this project. It is intensive and will take time and money. I guess you could grind on the case without splitting it, but that will be risky. Also, if you can find a good 066 top end for the money of a BB kit, I would go that route. The BB kit is a good bang for the buck and with a few replacement parts, seems to be a good runner, but the 066 top end is a proven design and just needs to be slotted and bolted down. The BB kit needs more attention to get a runner.

Here are some more pictures:
Here is my JB weld fix on the broken dawg mount. I put a metal insert in the old hole, then applied JB around it. Then I put a layer of fiberglass over it and finished with another layer of JB. Seems strong, but only time will tell.






My bet up Muffler cover. Sounds great though. You can see some of the JB weld job too:






Looks like a normal 064.....that how I like it.:


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## excess650 (Mar 8, 2009)

Vibration...did you make sure the piston would clear the base gasket? The .5mm 066 gaskets that I have, some from the Stihl dealer, won't clear my BB piston. The stock 064 base gasket would.

Your bucking spike mount will stand a better chance of surviving if you mount the matching spike on the clutch cover. The roller chain catcher is a recommended upgrade, but only works properly with dual spikes.


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## epicklein22 (Mar 8, 2009)

excess650 said:


> Vibration...did you make sure the piston would clear the base gasket? The .5mm 066 gaskets that I have, some from the Stihl dealer, won't clear my BB piston. The stock 064 base gasket would.
> 
> Your bucking spike mount will stand a better chance of surviving if you mount the matching spike on the clutch cover. The roller chain catcher is a recommended upgrade, but only works properly with dual spikes.



I forgot to mention I did open up the stihl 066 gasket I used to match the Bailey's one. I paid close attention to how it turned over. Everything was normal.

I will be getting another spike. Just need to do some digging in a friend's 066 parts saws.


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## Rookie1 (Mar 8, 2009)

Nice job Epic. That was one big job you did there.I like it.Nice pics and very informative.:greenchainsaw:


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## epicklein22 (Mar 8, 2009)

Rookie1 said:


> Nice job Epic. That was one big job you did there.I like it.Nice pics and very informative.:greenchainsaw:



Thanks Ross, I will let you get some time behind it someday.


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## excess650 (Mar 8, 2009)

Did you tach tune it?

It won't idle quite right until you get the clutch sorted out.


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## epicklein22 (Mar 8, 2009)

excess650 said:


> Did you tach tune it?
> 
> It won't idle quite right until you get the clutch sorted out.



No taching yet. I usually just go by ear anyways. I usually tune to 4-stroking and then a tad richer. It is a little rich on the H right now, gonna adjust it next time out.

It idles fine, just the chain keeps moving. I will get some clutch springs some time this week.


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## blsnelling (Mar 8, 2009)

I would guess that the initial rough idling was due to assembly lube burning off. Glad you finally got it running and hope it does good for you. Godd job.


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## RiverRat2 (Mar 8, 2009)

Good deal!!!!!


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## Martinm210 (Mar 9, 2009)

Awesome!

Glad it's up and running, looks great!

Just something about the sound of an 066. While I like the light/small package of my 044>046BB converted saw, my 066 just feels mean when it idles...it must be that extra long 40mm stroke..:greenchainsaw:

Look out wood!!!


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## epicklein22 (Mar 10, 2009)

Picked up some clutch springs and now have no chain creeping. Idles perfect too. Just need to rob a tank breather and the metal shim that goes in the chain brake on the starter side off my buddies parts saws and I am good to go.


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## BluCllrSchlr (Mar 10, 2009)

Nice job. Thanks for taking all the time to share the pics, it's a beauty.


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## Andyshine77 (Mar 11, 2009)

Looking good.


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## blsnelling (Mar 13, 2009)

Hows that saw runnin'? I got mine out today to replace the clutch springs. While I had it out I put a tach on it and it's turning 14,400. Any word on the Bing 49 carb kits?


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## epicklein22 (Mar 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Hows that saw runnin'? I got mine out today to replace the clutch springs. While I had it out I put a tach on it and it's turning 14,400. Any word on the Bing 49 carb kits?



I put a tank through it today. Ran well and cut nice. Obviously still breaking in though, just doesn't quite have that torque yet. Sucks fuel pretty good though. Soon, I want to do a little testing with my 064, 064 with 066BB, and the stock 660 at work. Should be a fun comparison.

Carb kits are a no go. I must have been smoking something thinking that I ordered one before, because the Bing isn't even listed in his set of IPL's.

I also put a tank through a 361 that I just fixed up and my new to me Partner P500. Both of those ran well. 361 was very smooth and ripped pretty good. The P500 was a little fat on the topend, so I leaned it up and that thing was cutting pretty damn good. It just crowded my 50cc class up some more.


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## blsnelling (Apr 29, 2009)

How's the 064 runnin'?


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## epicklein22 (Apr 30, 2009)

Good. I still barely have any time on it, a little more than a tank of fuel. So it definitely isn't broken in yet. I ran it at the GTG. Ran a decent time, considering I suck at cutting cants. It was also running a 24" bar, so I lost some time there. I plan on getting some more time on it come summertime.


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## blsnelling (Apr 30, 2009)

I assume your cutting partner didn't borrow it for a while then?


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## epicklein22 (Apr 30, 2009)

Naw, he ended up borrowing one from a guy he does sidework for. Both of the saws had problems, so he made one good one, which worked out for both of them. 

I am gonna take it with me to work every once in a while just for fun. The crane crew gets into some big trees....


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## Bowtie (Apr 30, 2009)

Great info in this thread! I have a complete 064 with a spare case on the way for a project saw. I have been trying to decide whether to use the stock 064 cylinder I have, or the MS660 cylinder I have. Im now leaning towards the OEM 660 cylinder with a Meteor piston.

I will know more about what I have when it gets here, but the pics show its gonna need cleanup at least. Plastic is faded, needs paint work done, etc. Im not big on making saws pretty, but might do that on this one since its going to be a drawn out project possibly anyway. It will be fun to have the stock rebuilt 064 I have now and compare it to the 064 with the 660 top end on it.


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## blsnelling (Apr 30, 2009)

Bowtie said:


> Great info in this thread! I have a complete 064 with a spare case on the way for a project saw. I have been trying to decide whether to use the stock 064 cylinder I have, or the MS660 cylinder I have. Im now leaning towards the OEM 660 cylinder with a Meteor piston.
> 
> I will know more about what I have when it gets here, but the pics show its gonna need cleanup at least. Plastic is faded, needs paint work done, etc. Im not big on making saws pretty, but might do that on this one since its going to be a drawn out project possibly anyway. It will be fun to have the stock rebuilt 064 I have now and compare it to the 064 with the 660 top end on it.



Swapping on the 066 top end is really easy. Slot the holes a little in the jug and you're good to go. If you want to retap the case for the 6mm jug bolts, that's easy too.


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## mgraff (Jul 9, 2009)

Got an basket case, 064 free-bee saw might have to give this a try!!


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## blsnelling (Jul 9, 2009)

mgraff said:


> Got an basket case, 064 free-bee saw might have to give this a try!!



Might as well. It's an easy conversion, at least with the OEM P&C. The BB takes a little more work with clearancing the case.


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## mgraff (Jul 9, 2009)

Never built a saw..hope I can get her figured out. Need to find a gas tank assembly, the handle is trashed. Someone dropped it or something fell on it.

Got a Bridgeport mill so clearancing the case and sloting should be ...pretty easy..LOL


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## GPETER (Jul 28, 2009)

I am looking into doing this same swap and I am wondering how the bottom end designed for 85cc's would stand up to 98cc's? Also whats the concencus on the quality of the new Woodland kits?


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## Quintin k (Aug 15, 2009)

*My 064 Stihl I made into 066BB & new bottom End*

Hey thanks for the info On your threads not to sure how you go about making threads on this sight but time will tell lol . I would like to share my story with others can you give me some in site on how to make threads. I ran 3 tanks of fuel through her today cutting fire wood had to fine tune the carb some from my first setting The new diaframs in the carb must have broke in I guess so I dialed in the low air fuel then set the high just a skrew driver whit past the burbler for the first two tanks of fuel the saw had a nice throaty sound and a steady pull threw the wood. then on the 3 rd tank of fuel I leaned it back to the burble. Man it was Riding a dirt bike hitting the power band So sweet  Thanks again!!!


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## epicklein22 (Aug 15, 2009)

Sweet! Glad to see this thread helped you convert your saw!


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## Scooterbum (Aug 15, 2009)

Man I hate threads like this.

I just aquired an 064 in good shape.Not a thing wrong with it.

Now I keep eyeing that 066 OEM P&C on the shelf.............


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## AKDriveSprocket (Mar 16, 2010)

I bumping this thread so I can find it easier.


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## southbound (Mar 16, 2010)

Do like I did bookmark it


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## Quintin k (Apr 22, 2010)

*How is that 064???*



southbound said:


> Do like I did bookmark it



Hey just wondering how that 064 is holding up with that 064BB on it??? I did the same thing to my 064 man she sure eats up the fuel now!


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## epicklein22 (Apr 22, 2010)

Quintin k said:


> Hey just wondering how that 064 is holding up with that 064BB on it??? I did the same thing to my 064 man she sure eats up the fuel now!



Ya, it likes to drink the fuel. Mine runs very well for stock. However, I'm pretty sure I have a coil mix up as it has ignition troubles. I plan on sorting that out soon and really putting some time behind it this summer.


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## catbuster (Apr 23, 2010)

GPETER said:


> I am looking into doing this same swap and I am wondering how the bottom end designed for 85cc's would stand up to 98cc's? Also whats the concencus on the quality of the new Woodland kits?



It's just a shoter crank 066... I think it would do well.


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## fidiro (Dec 27, 2010)

epicklein22 said:


> For anyone wanting to attempt this project. It is intensive and will take time and money. I guess you could grind on the case without splitting it, but that will be risky. Also, if you can find a good 066 top end for the money of a BB kit, I would go that route. The BB kit is a good bang for the buck and with a few replacement parts, seems to be a good runner, but the 066 top end is a proven design and just needs to be slotted and bolted down. The BB kit needs more attention to get a runner.
> 
> Here are some more pictures:
> Here is my JB weld fix on the broken dawg mount. I put a metal insert in the old hole, then applied JB around it. Then I put a layer of fiberglass over it and finished with another layer of JB. Seems strong, but only time will tell.
> ...



How is that JB weld and fiberglass holding up. I have a 440 with the same broken mount and planned on using JB but always wondered if it will hold. I have recently ordered the set(inside and outside) of bigger dogs to help after JB. 

Did you get the other spike for the bar cover?


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## epicklein22 (Dec 27, 2010)

fidiro said:


> How is that JB weld and fiberglass holding up. I have a 440 with the same broken mount and planned on using JB but always wondered if it will hold. I have recently ordered the set(inside and outside) of bigger dogs to help after JB.
> 
> Did you get the other spike for the bar cover?



It is holding up well, no problems so far. Yes, I have the outer spike mounted now. 

BTW, been using this saw up at my work (tree company) in the wood yard. We have a couple cranes and bring back the logs, this saw has been solid so far cutting some of them up.


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## fidiro (Dec 27, 2010)

epicklein22 said:


> It is holding up well, no problems so far. Yes, I have the outer spike mounted now.
> 
> BTW, been using this saw up at my work (tree company) in the wood yard. We have a couple cranes and bring back the logs, this saw has been solid so far cutting some of them up.



Good to hear, gives me hope that I may have it hold together as well when I get it done. Glad it's been a great runner for you.

BTW, I just came across this thread from a link on another thread and I was actually planning on looking for a couple steel pins that I can drill two holes the size of the pins through the broken piece and slightly into case. I would then fill the holes and crack with JB then push the pins in, finishing all that with a coat of JB. If I see that I can find small enough pins and if the case has room for me to drill I may do that to the addition of a blanket piece of fiber. We'll see when I get into it.


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