# Looking to replant areas of woods



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 5, 2005)

Some of you may have seen my other post, but I recently purchased 16 wooded acres that had been heavily logged 7 or 8 years ago. Many trees have blown over, and there are a few pretty bare spots. I would like to replant some of these areas, but am unsure of what to plant.
One thought was to plant some black walnuts, and possibly cut them down when I retire for a little extra cash (probably in another 30 years or so). However, I'd imagine by that time I wouldn't want to, and would just leave them up.
Any other ideas for something that might have some good value in that time period?


----------



## tomreeve (Jan 5, 2005)

CJ, 
30 years is not a lot of time for your slower growing hardwoods. Sugar maples for example will only grow about 30' in that time frame. Not quite sure about the rate of growth from walnuts, but I don't think that they are mcuh quicker. I would grow nut trees, fruit trees and the like. You could harvest the product. Not much money, but good stuff to eat.
Tom


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 5, 2005)

Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if that would be enough time or not. I'll probably just plant some to fill in the areas, and for the kids/future grandkids to enjoy later.
I see your from Muncie. Is there anything you would recommend in particular to plant (as far as non-fruit/nut bearing trees go)? I'd like to have a nice variety of trees on the property. Right now it is pretty much 100% decidious trees (previous owners planted a screen of evergreens on one edge of the property). I'd like to plant some other evergreens as well, but I'm not sure what type to plant in the woods (where there would be a lot of shade from the other trees).


----------



## tomreeve (Jan 5, 2005)

Not many evergreens really enjoy being under deep cover. Hemlock can stand it, but doesn't do too great in Muncie, other areas I'm not so sure. White pine will often sit in the shade, waitng for a tree to fall so it can take over. If there is an open area (from a cutting or fall down) with ample light (i.e. not covered all day long) then any evergreen will do. Keep in mind that evergreens are not native around here and need a lot of care during the beginning and drought times. I have seen a decline in them because of the drought that we had this summer. 
One important thing to do is kill all the honeysuckle in your woods. THey will shade out seedlings and eventually cause the woods to decline.
Therre is a good tree book for Indiana. 101 Trees of Indiana by Marion T. Jackson. It focuses on native and naturalized trees found in the wild and has great pictures. good luck
tom


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 5, 2005)

I found that book on a search here, and will be ordering it soon. There aren't too many different species of trees on my property (and I don't know what most of them are). But I do have a few walnut trees, and some sycamores. I'll have to get that book to ID the rest.


----------



## Elmore (Jan 5, 2005)

*trees*

cj7jeep81, what USDA plant hardiness zone are you in? 5b? 6a? Grow Ginkgoes. They transplant well. Dig well. Relatively rare for certain cultivars. Grow em' and sell em' or grow em' and enjoy em'. Japanese Maples are easily managed and will bring top dollar. If you want to sell them. A whole lot of asian maples will do well there.


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 5, 2005)

I think Elmore has the ticket. Planting rare cultivars, semi-exotics and inordinately cool trees; things that you can sell for a decent price, AND charge for the transplantation of in a few years. Planting hardwoods for lumbering purposes might possibly benefit your grandchildren. Planting trees of just about any specie is generally a good thing to do, but you're trying to zero-in on a purpose and figure out how and what to do and the best way to get started. I respect your vision.


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 5, 2005)

Thanks for the tips. According to the usda website, I'm in either 5b or 6a (maps too small to see my county). I'll search the web for some info on ginkgoes. Do you guys know of any good places to purchases these trees? The only Japanese maples I see around here are pretty pricey, and I'd rather get some small ones to ofset the costs.


----------



## Newfie (Jan 5, 2005)

How about let nature reclaim the plot and see what she brings you. Enjoy your woods for the peace and tranquility.Thirty years is not long enough for merchantable hardwood trees. From your previous thread most of the "dollar value" has already been raped from your acreage. 

If you want to start a tree farm,buy a field.


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 5, 2005)

Newfie said:


> How about let nature reclaim the plot and see what she brings you. Enjoy your woods for the peace and tranquility.Thirty years is not long enough for merchantable hardwood trees. From your previous thread most of the "dollar value" has already been raped from your acreage.
> 
> If you want to start a tree farm,buy a field.



I thought about letting it go naturally, but would like a little more variety. I definately don't want a tree farm, but was just curious to see if I could get a little extra cash down the road with hardwood lumber, which I now see I really can't.


----------



## glens (Jan 5, 2005)

I'd put out a bunch of black locust and use/sell it for firewood.&nbsp; 30 years is just right.

Glen


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 5, 2005)

glens said:


> I'd put out a bunch of black locust and use/sell it for firewood.&nbsp; 30 years is just right.
> 
> Glen



We have a lot of locust at our house now (not the land). I'm not sure if it is black locust or not. I'm hesitant to use it mostly because of the thorns (if I did, I'd want to plant it out of the way to keep it away from the kids), but what we have spreads like crazy. An empty lot next to our house had a few growing, and I just cut down a whole stand of them a couple months ago (probably 30 or 40 1-2" in diamter).


----------



## Elmore (Jan 5, 2005)

*Worthy Trees*

A bunch of these would be nice.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Elmore/Ginkgo/ginkchichi1resized.jpg">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Elmore/Acer%20palmatum%20dissectum%20Edgewoods%20Golden/EdgewoodsGoldenandOisame11-20-2004.jpg">


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 5, 2005)

Elmore, what kind of tree is that first one? Going by the picture name, is that a ginkgoe? The second is a Japanese maple, correct? Any idea where a good place would be to get the top one?


----------



## glens (Jan 6, 2005)

ginkgos are separately male/female trees and I doubt you want a female near the place since their foul-smelling fruit are nasty.

I've already made my suggestion for something you can put to great use in your own lifetime.&nbsp; Yes, the twigs have few thorns like those on a rose bush, but the wood is phenomenal for fuel and the scent of the flowers is almost orgasmic.

Check out http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/data_results_with_common.cfm?state=IN, where some of the links have quite verbose and informative links to USDA forest service data.

Glen


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 6, 2005)

glens said:


> ginkgos are separately male/female trees and I doubt you want a female near the place since their foul-smelling fruit are nasty.
> 
> I've already made my suggestion for something you can put to great use in your own lifetime.&nbsp; Yes, the twigs have few thorns like those on a rose bush, but the wood is phenomenal for fuel and the scent of the flowers is almost orgasmic.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that link, there is a lot of good information in there. I might plant some locust trees, but after looking at that fact sheet I'm not sure where. It looks like they don't like shade much, and I don't have too many open areas. I might just dig up a few from the house, and see what happens.


----------



## Elmore (Jan 6, 2005)

*Tree ID*

The Ginkgo in the top picture is Ginkgo biloba 'Chi Chi'. The other picture shows two separate Japanese Maple cultivars of two separate species. I placed them together for the color effect when making the photo. The broad leaved, yellow plant is Acer japonicum 'O isame' and the laceleaf in front is Acer palmatum 'Edgewood's Golden'


----------



## Elmore (Jan 6, 2005)

*Female Ginkgoes*

Yes, Ginkgoes are dioecious. Pronunciation:, dI'eeshus. Meaning that some trees are female, pistillate (sometimes referred as ovulate) and others are male, staminate. Producing male, fruitless trees, is one of the reasons that people graft this species. Another reason is for obtaining characteristics other than simply male vs. female, dwarf, variegation, columnar, unusual leaf or even, as shown in the picture that I previously posted, a nice set of tits. Unless you are sure of the source I would be skeptical of any trees purchased as male rooted or grafted. Seek out a reputable grafter. On young grafted trees, a graft union is usually still visible.
A few people want a female tree. Those too, should be grafted or rooted. I believe that overall most trees that can be found in garden centers across America are likely seedlings, un-grafted or un-sexed. It generally takes between 15-30 years for a straight seedling to show it's sex, to flower. Unless you get an asexually produced male tree, you risk ending up with a fruit bearing specimen and yes some think that the fruit really smells like a "specimen". You can eat the seed (cooked and in moderation) and benefit, both physically and mentally from it. A female is worthwhile and is a beautiful tree. I would not want one planted real close to the house or a picnic area but you have 16 acres, I'm sure it would not hurt to have a few on your property. 

Here is a pretty little female bearing a nice crop of fruit.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Elmore/Ginkgo/Huntsvillefemale9-16-04.jpg">

Ginkgo info: http://www.hcs.ohio-state.edu/hcs/TMI/Plantlist/gi_iloba.html


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 6, 2005)

Those are really neat looking trees. Is the fruit good for wildlife? I wouldn't mind having a couple on my property.


----------



## Elmore (Jan 6, 2005)

*Wildlife value*

I know of no significant value for wildlife other than cover and nesting. Something gets into my plastic bags of fruit that I leave out. I do see some nuts broken open as if eaten. Probably squirrels. Most likely a curiosity more than a desire for food. Ants seem to like them a bit.


----------



## tomreeve (Jan 7, 2005)

The fruits are often eaten by carrion eaters because they smell like rotten meat. I have heard it put forward that this is the reason why ginkos have been around for the pas 160 million years.. Elmore is that cultivar (chi chi) known for producing the chi chis? You can cut those off and they will grow when you put them in soil. Many people in China make instant bonsai with the chi chis and sell them.
tom


----------



## Elmore (Jan 7, 2005)

*More "Chi Chi' info*

Perhaps dormant buds, lignotubers or "aerial" lignotubers. Some say some function of reproduction. Some trees, usually older Ginkgoes are said to form basil lignotubers-"Chi Chi" and with age, many may form aerial growths. Often attributed to some form of stress or damage incurred by the individual tree. Have also heard that if you gird a limb or branch with a wire, that chi chi's will form above the girding. As far as I know, the trees that I graft as 'Chi Chi' come from the Ginkgo cultivar, 'Chi Chi'. I am assuming that they exhibit these growths primarily in the aerial form. Time may tell. My small trees, that have not yet started showing Chi Chi, came from wood acquired from a 75 year old bonsai being offered by Brussell Bonsai. Their specimen was about 20" tall, full of chi chi's and they wanted $5,800.00 for it. Also received some 'Chi Chi' wood from a source in NY. I keep them separate as I know that the wood that I got from Brussell definitely came from a small tree showing aerial chichi. Often 'Chi Chi' is sold as a rooted cutting. Sometimes grafted. I have read, on the internet, that by air layering you get a plant that forms chi chi sooner. I have read before that it typically takes about ten years for a small tree to begin forming these growths. Below is some info from a man from Harvard who is considered an expert on Ginkgoes. 

Peter Del Tredici
Abstract: "This study describes the origin and early development of a distinct organ of clonal regeneration in Ginkgo biloba, the basal chichi. These aggregates of suppressed shoot buds originate from superficial meristems located in the cotyledonary axils of all Ginkgo seedlings as part of their normal ontogeny. Within 6 wk of germination these buds become embedded in the cortex of the stem, and their subsequent growth and development occurs below the surface of the bark. When stimulated by some traumatic event that damages the seedling axis, one of these embedded cotyledonary buds usually grows down from the trunk to form a woody, rhizomelike basal chichi which, under appropriate conditions, is capable of generating both aerial shoots and adventitious roots. Vegetative regeneration by means of basal chichi has not only contributed to the long-term persistence of G. biloba in the forests of China, but may also have played a role in the remarkable survival of the genus since the Cretaceous."

Hey Tom, will your public garden/natural area have a collection of Ginkgoes? Or will it be restricted to natives only. You know the Ginkgo used to be native here in North America.


----------



## glens (Jan 7, 2005)

Hey Elmore, what're the chances for viable fruit from an evidently solitary female gingko?&nbsp; There's a big one behind the public library and in a conversation with my gingko-loving mom, I mentioned the mass of foul litter.&nbsp; She wants me to send her some.&nbsp; Assuming viability, do they require any special process?

Glen


----------



## Elmore (Jan 8, 2005)

*Ginkgo Seed*



glens said:


> Hey Elmore, what're the chances for viable fruit from an evidently solitary female gingko?&nbsp; There's a big one behind the public library and in a conversation with my gingko-loving mom, I mentioned the mass of foul litter.&nbsp; She wants me to send her some.&nbsp; Assuming viability, do they require any special process?
> 
> Glen


Ginkgo seed? Chances are excellent. It must have been polinated somehow or it wouldn't have fruit. Or so I think. Crack a nut...from the tree, not yours. Any meat inside? Clean the fruit off of the seeds and rinse them off. Get a flat or other shallow yet well drained container, put an inch or so of sand in the bottom, then a layer of seed. Cover with a layer of sand and then another layer of seed if you have them. Finish with a layer of sand, place in a sheltered location and moisten if needed. Most likely, you will have a full flat of Ginkgo seedlings in a few months.


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 8, 2005)

Elmore, thanks for spilling us those drops out of your ocean of knowledge.


----------



## tomreeve (Jan 8, 2005)

Elmore,
Ginkos are my favorite tree. I have been hooked ever since i heard Peter del Tredeci speak at cornell last year. The nursery that I worked at this past year in Muncie had one that was about 75 yrs old.
tom


----------



## Chucky (Jan 8, 2005)

Jeep,

Planting ornamentals isn't a bad idea, but Glen is on to something with his suggestion of planting Black Locust. This extremely versatile tree has both utility and ornamental value. 

The tree is often disdained in the sanitary suburban landscape because of its thorns and its tendency to spread by suckering off the roots. But its true value far exceeds its perceived liabilities.

In the landscape, the blue-green pinnate leaves cast a pleasant filtered shade; it has beautiful showy white flowers, that as Glen said, are deliciously fragrant; and in its winter nakedness, especially at night, the sight of its gnarly branching habit is reminiscent of the Adams Family house on a stormy night. The only tree I know of that rivals it for the ghoulish "stormy night" effect is the Catalpa, especially against the backdrop of an 1840's Victorian-Gothic house. 

Its utilitarian uses are many. It's adaptable to environmental extremes such as drought, air pollutants, and high light intensities. The wood is very strong and hard, with extremely high durability, yet it grows fast and dense, and its N2-fixing ability makes it ideal for colonizing degraded sites. It can be used for external purposes -- like cedar -- without toxic preservatives. And it provides excellent honey nectar.

The beautiful light to dark brown wood is used to make paneling, siding, flooring, furniture, boat building (substitute for teak), decking, vineyard or nursery props, fruit boxes, and pallets. It is also a preferred wood for pulp production. And, again as Glen notes, it can be used for firewood.

As far as worrying about its thorns -- actually they are spines (modified leaves or stipules, as opposed to thorns (modified branches, as in the Honeylocust) -- once your kids get pricked by them once, they'll quickly learn to avoid them. Hey, they're kids exploring the outdoors, you don't want 'em to live in a bubble, do you?

Consider the beautiful, often disdained, and underappreciated Black Locust. You can't go wrong.

[End of commercial]


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 10, 2005)

Thanks for the info Chucky. I'll probably find a spot somewhere to plant a couple (I'll just dig them out of my yard), and see how they do.


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 11, 2005)

CJ, 

Little saplings can be ordered for very, very inexpensive. A few years ago I was amazed to find Sequoia and Coastal Redwood for a buck a piece, 6" saplings in soil tubes from Bailey's.

Even cheaper are 1 and two year-old hardwood seedlings. Think about it, if you can find various species for 60 cents a piece, heck, order 40 or 50. With a couple hundred bucks you can plant a lot of trees, and have an extensive variety. Get this party started! 

Group your choices, first, based on their hardiness in your zone. From that pool, choose what you want to plant this Winter / Spring. Plant to do it again next year, with twice the number of trees, and new species. You could work in various exotics over the course of time. That should about do ya. 

What a fun project. I am honestly jealous.


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 11, 2005)

Thanks for the tips. I've found a few places on-line (as well as receieved a couple mail order catalogs), that sell that cheap. I've thought of doing that as well. My main thinking now is to mostly just plant a variety of trees, and enjoy what I get (and not necessarily make any money doing so).



Tree Machine said:


> CJ,
> 
> Little saplings can be ordered for very, very inexpensive. A few years ago I was amazed to find Sequoia and Coastal Redwood for a buck a piece, 6" saplings in soil tubes from Bailey's.
> 
> ...


----------



## DadF (Jan 11, 2005)

CJ-check out woodywarehouse.com they grow their own seedlings from locally collected seed. They have a variety of different trees from shade to nut trees. Even though they are a wholesale company they do have a "once-a-year' sale open to the public. Just a another option


----------



## Elmore (Jan 11, 2005)

*A suggestion*

My advice is to decide on what species you would want incorporated into your landscape. Decide, then seek out appropriate species rather than look for bargain basement prices for what is easily available. I would rather pay a premium for a superior species than get a "deal" on a bunch of inferior species. I'll bet you can find some good deals on Ash these days. 
I just checked out the woodywarehouse and figured out how they got that name. They want to give you the "Woody"  
Check out the price on 1g Viburnum dentatum:
Viburnum dentatum - Arrowwood Viburnum - 1 gal - 3-Pack 1 Gallon 18 lbs 24 - 52" $69.96 (I can get these, br, for about $0.75 ea.)

& Bald Cypress:
Taxodium distichum - Bald Cypress - Pint Pint 3 lbs 12 - 24" $12.95 

No deals here. These prices look like what would be paid in the Hamptons. Maybe when they are dumping this material they will have more reasonable prices. 
"Nothin' but the best, later for the rest."


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 11, 2005)

You're teasing us, Elmore. Dump the beans. Share a couple more links with us. Introduce CJ and us to some farms / grower-raisers.

My feeling is that if CJ could talk direct to the grower, arrange for CJ to go pick the trees up, mebbe with a trailer, and get <i>large</i>r trees to start. They may have trees that are out-growing their pots and would just like to get them out of the nursery.

You'll both speak a common language from a common passion. You should do fine.

Elmore, isn't there someone in Louisville? Thats just a couple hours drive from CJ's.


----------



## tomreeve (Jan 11, 2005)

The nursery that I used to work at here in Muncie has the strongest trees around, cause they are grown in a field with no help whatsoever. If you want big trees Smith's Nursery is its name. The owner won't give you deals, but her trees never die of transplant shock. I know that where I used to live in central NY you could get tons of tree seedlings for next to nothing from the dept of natural resources. Does Indiana do this? Could be a cheap way to fill in an area quick. 
Kill that honeysuckle
tom


----------



## DadF (Jan 12, 2005)

Elmore-My point was that the seed stock woody uses is from Locally grown trees and therefore should survive better than some of the tree stock that we get in from who-knows-where(I really think that red clay is not a typical Indiana soil). Plus until you can check out their quality don't knock their prices. They may not have the best deals around but what I've purchased from them so far has been top notch. At least I have yet to get a tree in a pot that hasn't been grown at the proper level in the pot and that's more than I can say for probably 90% of the potted stuff I've seen for many years (let's just say more than 25 years and leave it at that). Plus they also have some species that you would have difficulty getting anywhere else locally. Now if you're starting to wonder if I have any "connections" with them don't even think about it because I don't. I'm just not ashamed to pass on info on a quality product when I know of it. I'm sure that there are many other "bargain places" to purchase plant material and some of them might even have some decent stuff- all I was trying to do was offer a choice just as you are offering a choice. The only difference is that I won't knock your sources because I haven't seen and planted their material.


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 12, 2005)

How bout listing some more sources?


----------



## treedoc1 (Jan 15, 2005)

*Wholesale sources*

You need to make the $ minimums.
You might be able to tag along early spring when they ship their normal clients.
Availability might be limited, most orders are placed and confirmed in the fall.

Leo Gentry Gresham Oregon
Colson's Nursery Bonners Ferry Idaho
J Frank Schmidt Boring Oregon
Forest Keeling Nursery Elsberry MO
Musser Forests Indiana PA
Morningstar Nursery Rives TN
Phytotektor Huntland TN
Bailey Nurseries St Paul MN

All have different specialties. All have bare root offerings along with finished product. All have been in business for decades supplying nurserymen across the country.

Good Luck


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 15, 2005)

You are so cool, Doc! Thanks a bunch. It makes me wish I had 40 acres to plant.

Hey Doc, I see there that this is your very first posting at arboristsite. Your first time writing ANYTHING here, and you come through with a veritable <i>nugget</i> of information. Great leads, thank you for your contribution. This is one of the ways in which you change the world for the better.

OK, everybody else, give the noob a big warm welcome!


----------



## Elmore (Jan 16, 2005)

treedoc1 said:


> You need to make the $ minimums.
> You might be able to tag along early spring when they ship their normal clients.
> Availability might be limited, most orders are placed and confirmed in the fall.
> 
> ...


As stated, these are wholesale and therefore may not sell to small landowners. Some like Leo Gentry specialize in larger finished product, like large Laceleaf Japanese Maples that are quite expensive. J Frank Schmidt sells large volumes of bare root trees in larger (whips) sizes and are also getting into containers. Forest Keeling is more mid-western and may be easier to deal with. Along with Forest Keeling, Heartland in MO may be worth calling and produces a lot of Ginkgo etc.. Phytotector is mass quantities of smaller liners. Perhaps a similar operation is LAC, located just east of Louisville, KY. Bailey's is a huge operation and may not work with a small, actually retail customer. Here is a link to some Indiana locals: http://www.state.in.us/dnr/entomolo/pdfs/2003nur.pdf
Decide on species then make some calls and/or do an internet search.


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 16, 2005)

*You guys ARE great minds*

 YOW !!!!

You two just threw down, big. Those two posts pretty much covered the spectrum on where to source material.


----------



## treedoc1 (Jan 17, 2005)

*cj7jeep81*

saw some nice 5 gallon containers...$10-$15 each, maples, oaks and others. Easy ship to Indiana.

What is your budget?

www.jfschmidt.com just had current availability...many good 2 gallon vigor liners

email or pm if you need more info


----------



## Elmore (Jan 17, 2005)

*Magnolias*

An assortment of Magnolias would look good on this property.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Elmore/Magnolias/Magnolia3.jpg">


----------



## Elmore (Jan 17, 2005)

*A message from J. Frank Schmidt*



treedoc1 said:


> saw some nice 5 gallon containers...$10-$15 each, maples, oaks and others. Easy ship to Indiana.
> 
> What is your budget?
> 
> ...



"Requirements for ordering
Due to the wholesale-only nature of our business, a $2,500 minimum order is required. Our sales are limited to the landscape and nursery trades and to companies with valid state nursery dealer licenses. Those who meet this requirement are invited to contact us via telephone or e-mail for a copy of our current wholesale price catalog and stock availability."
Yeah, that's their stated policy. It still wouldn't hurt to contact them, though. Unless your one of them "sensitive" types.


----------



## treedoc1 (Jan 17, 2005)

*Sorry Elmore*

Sorry to intrude on your little empire
I bought and sold over a thousand trailers a year for quite a few years as a rewholesaler.
Can't compare with your knowledge though.
I'm out of here


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 17, 2005)

These sensitive types.... (and my being one of them) we're our own worst enemies.

Treedoc, get your butt back here.

Without defending Elmore, all Elmore did was quote the written policy, which to me says "We don't want to dink with small-timers, non-dealers, etc."

Elmore do you have some empire you're not tellin us about? Mebbe Doc is exaggerating. If he's a hypersensitive over-exaggerator, heck, I'm married to one of those. I feel like Doc and I are old friends.

Doc, get back here. We're just throwing down information, not getting in snits. Or is there something I'm missing here?


----------



## Elmore (Jan 17, 2005)

*Physician heal thyself*



treedoc1 said:


> Sorry to intrude on your little empire
> I bought and sold over a thousand trailers a year for quite a few years as a rewholesaler.
> Can't compare with your knowledge though.
> I'm out of here


No need for sorrow and your not intruding on anyone's empire...are you paranoid or something? I'm just playing the devil's advocate when it comes to purchasing material from large wholesalers. Actually more a realist. Some will fill smaller orders. I just don't think Baileys or J Frank Schmidt will. They might. Try. Give em' a call. It doesn't hurt to inquire. I may be proven wrong. Many wholesalers will sell to most anyone although it is undermining their base. In the long run it is the almighty green that makes the decision. A nursery such as Heritage Seedlings or Rennerwood Tree Farm might be more obliging than the big boys. Where you gonna go and what ya gonna do? By the way, what does trailer sales have to do with the green industry? I used to work for Safeway but I don't think that makes a difference. I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express, once.


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 17, 2005)

I think 'rewholesaler' was the key word in there. What does that mean?


----------



## Elmore (Jan 18, 2005)

Tree Machine said:


> I think 'rewholesaler' was the key word in there. What does that mean?


It's like wholesale at near retail price.


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 18, 2005)

Thanks for all the links and advice. As far as budget, I really don't have anything set. Can't afford to spend too much at once, but would like to get some planting done this coming spring. Magnolia's would like nice, as would a lot of the other recommendations. 
I was out at the property cutting firewood over the weekend (a tree had blown over across the main path). It's much more depressing in the winter, its a lot easier to see all the downed trees. But, not too many as a percentage of all trees. Just a lot easier to see with snow on the ground and no vegetation. But, I did finally get a chance to take a bunch more pictures.


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 18, 2005)

cj7jeep81 said:


> I did finally get a chance to take a bunch more pictures.


...that you will be sharing with us....?


----------



## cj7jeep81 (Jan 19, 2005)

Tree Machine said:


> ...that you will be sharing with us....?


Sure, I haven't had a chance to re-size them yet, but I should later today.


----------



## trimmmed (Jan 22, 2005)

glens said:


> I'd put out a bunch of black locust and use/sell it for firewood.&nbsp; 30 years is just right.
> 
> Glen



Interesting. Is anyone doing this sucessfully? Is there an approximate cordage figure for Locusts at 30 years? I'd be grateful if you have any links that discuss this. Once planted, would these renew themselves after harvest?


----------



## trimmmed (Jan 22, 2005)

I found this link that speaks about the black locust, good info but it does seem to give a thumbs down on a locust plantation.

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/robinia/pseudoacacia.htm


----------



## glens (Jan 22, 2005)

I indirectly mentioned that excellent link in an earlier post with a link to the Virginia Tech. website, which also provides it.

They'll easily get 70' &times; 24" DBH in 30 years, and that will provide at least a cord of arguably the best overall quality firewood.&nbsp; They're beautiful in bloom, and the aroma of the flowers can be appreciated from even a great distance downwind.&nbsp; I love to drive around the countryside with my windows down in late spring.&nbsp; It evokes memories of grandma's house...

Glen


----------



## coffeecraver (Jan 27, 2005)

cj7jeep81 said:


> Some of you may have seen my other post, but I recently purchased 16 wooded acres that had been heavily logged 7 or 8 years ago. Many trees have blown over, and there are a few pretty bare spots. I would like to replant some of these areas, but am unsure of what to plant.
> One thought was to plant some black walnuts, and possibly cut them down when I retire for a little extra cash (probably in another 30 years or so). However, I'd imagine by that time I wouldn't want to, and would just leave them up.
> Any other ideas for something that might have some good value in that time period?



When thing of Black Walnut,keep this in mind.
Implications for Horticulture

Gardens should be located away from black walnut trees to prevent damage to susceptible plants. If proximity to such trees is unavoidable, then raised beds afford a means of protection. However, the bed must be constructed in such a way as to minimize tree root penetration into the raised portion. Care must then be taken to keep the beds free of black walnut leaf litter or nuts. If a garden is separated from a black walnut tree by a rock wall, driveway, or other physical barrier, then root extension growth into the garden area may be limited and juglone toxicity problems minimized.

From observation of native stands of black walnut, decreased toxicity seems to be associated with excellent soil drainage, even among sensitive species. Thus, any steps that can be taken to improve drainage, such as additions of organic matter or replacement of existing soil with a lighter type, should tend to minimize toxicity problems in a garden area.

Leaves, bark, or wood chips of black walnut should not be used to mulch landscape or garden plants. Even after a period of composting, such refuse may release small amounts of juglone.


Plants Sensitive to Juglone
Landscape plants:

black alder (Alnus);* azalea; 
basswood; *white birches;
Hopa crabapple*; hackberry;
Amur honeysuckle; 
Japanese larch;* lespedeza; 
lilac;* saucer magnolia; 
silver maple;* mountain laurel;
loblolly pine; *red pine; 
scotch pine; *white pine;
potentilla;* privet; 
rhododendron;* Norway spruce


Plants Tolerant of Juglone
Landscape plants: 

red cedar;* crabapple;
elm;* winged euonymus;
forsythia;* hawthorn; 
hemlock; *hickories;
black locust;* most maples;
oaks;* autumn olive;
pachysandra;* pawpaw;
persimmon;* wild rose;
sycamore;* most viburnums;
Virginia creeper 

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/hortcult/fruits/blkwalnt.htm


----------



## Tree Machine (Jan 27, 2005)

Thanks, Norm. More excellent material. The problem CJ7 may have is <i>too many</i> choices.


----------



## Elmore (Jan 27, 2005)

*Choices*



Tree Machine said:


> Thanks, Norm. More excellent material. The problem CJ7 may have is <i>too many</i> choices.


You can never have too many choices. You just have to research them and decide which is best or better than the others. As far as availability, there are a lot of different species available throughout the country and probably more than you know of locally. If you are in a hurry and need to install something by a certain time, then you may be subject to immediate availability but in the case of a long term planting plan, I don't suggest rushing out and obtaining junk trees to install. Patience is a virtue and so is persistence.


----------



## Reed (Feb 10, 2005)

_Secrets Of Companion Planting For Successful Gardening
_
by Louise Riotte, Garden Way Books.

Not only a soil/gardening book but a mind stimulator as well.


----------

