# Time for a new saddle



## medic2397 (Oct 4, 2011)

I have been climbing on a Buckingham Classic for 4 years now. I am a big supporter of Buckingham as they are made in the US and more so in my hometown. My other climber has me convinced that a bosun seat style harness is the way to go, so I am definately looking for a bosun seat in my next saddle purchase. I basically have it narrowed down to the Buckingham Ergovation or the Petzl Sequoia Swing. The Ergovation is much more expensive especially once you add in the bosun seat attachment, but it seems to be much more versatile. The Sequoia seems very nice and considerably less. I am looking for input on these two saddles, but if anyone can recommend a different saddle, I'll look into that as well. If anyone has used both please give some feedback on which one you liked better and why. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Luke:msp_confused:


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## tree md (Oct 5, 2011)

I have been using the Petzl Mini Boss ,which is similar to the Sequoia Swing, for 2 years or so. It's a nice saddle . Very comfortable and has served me well. I cannot comment on the Ergovation as I have never climbed in one. With most higher end saddles you are not going to have the clips and rope rings that come on most traditional saddles. You will have to customize it yourself. I am a bosun seat guy myself. I never could get comfortable with a leg loop saddle. I have heard good things about the Buckingham Pinnacle which is a bosun seat saddle. I am planning on buying one myself in the future to check out.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Oct 5, 2011)

I bought a ergavation a little while back, and I love it. Very comfortable and you can adjust just about all the parts to fit you right. I really like it because you can replace a piece of the harness if needed without having to get a whole new saddle.


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## Grace Tree (Oct 5, 2011)

I love my Ergovation. It's the only saddle I've ever had that I could adjust the weight distribution between the leg straps and the belt. If you buy one, you might try it without the bosun seat as it's pretty comfy right out of the box when adjusted.
Phil


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 5, 2011)

medic2397 said:


> I have been climbing on a Buckingham Classic for 4 years now. I am a big supporter of Buckingham as they are made in the US and more so in my hometown. My other climber has me convinced that a bosun seat style harness is the way to go, so I am definately looking for a bosun seat in my next saddle purchase. I basically have it narrowed down to the Buckingham Ergovation or the Petzl Sequoia Swing. The Ergovation is much more expensive especially once you add in the bosun seat attachment, but it seems to be much more versatile. The Sequoia seems very nice and considerably less. I am looking for input on these two saddles, but if anyone can recommend a different saddle, I'll look into that as well. If anyone has used both please give some feedback on which one you liked better and why. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Luke:msp_confused:



You still live in Bing?


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## imagineero (Oct 5, 2011)

ergovation is a great saddle no doubt, I bought a treemotion when I should have bought an ergovation. Treemotion comes in a one size fits all package, and I didnt realise until after I mail order purchased it that one size means anyone up to 36". Ergovation is available in 3 sizes. I've climbed in a borrowed one a few times and was very impressed. 

If you're a heavier guy then go ergovation. If you're skinnier then sequoia. Do try without the bosun seat as suggested, I find they crack my nuts for no added comfort. Depends on your climbing style though....

Shaun


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## kdslocum (Oct 5, 2011)

medic2397 said:


> I have been climbing on a Buckingham Classic for 4 years now. I am a big supporter of Buckingham as they are made in the US and more so in my hometown. My other climber has me convinced that a bosun seat style harness is the way to go, so I am definately looking for a bosun seat in my next saddle purchase. I basically have it narrowed down to the Buckingham Ergovation or the Petzl Sequoia Swing. The Ergovation is much more expensive especially once you add in the bosun seat attachment, but it seems to be much more versatile. The Sequoia seems very nice and considerably less. I am looking for input on these two saddles, but if anyone can recommend a different saddle, I'll look into that as well. If anyone has used both please give some feedback on which one you liked better and why. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Luke:msp_confused:


 
Go with the edge! its made by buckingham and they will be a seat coming out for it pretty soon im told by buckingham. my previous saddle was a buck versatile with the seat and i loved it. the seats are great for removals but if you do more pruning you want a saddle with alot of mobility. the edge saddle is the "baby" version of the ergovation and its 200 bucks cheaper.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Oct 5, 2011)

I bought a tree motion first and then I started reading the book and it said its only rated for 100 kg or 220 lbs + - so I had to return that one and got a ergavation.


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## TreeAce (Oct 5, 2011)

I have a sequoia and really like it alot. I have never tried an ergovation but I think it looks like a great saddle. I actually have considered getting one but havent worn out the petzl yet. Truth is, considering the price, I would most likely buy another sequoia.

Also, I am on the bigger side for a climber (260 lbs) and have no problem at all with a standard sequoia.


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## CNBTreeTrimming (Oct 5, 2011)

I use a glide II. I have been looking at getting a new one with a lil more comfortable fit and padding. I'm interested in the same saddle. Anyone have anything good to say about them? Not worried about brand, just want the most comfortable. A nice suspender system would be nice too. Can't keep my saddle tight. Always works loose and hangs low. Not comfortable at all.


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## medic2397 (Oct 5, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> You still live in Bing?


 
No, I'm not in Bingo anymore. Moved to Rochester after I graduated college. Thanks everyone for the input. I might be even more confused now though. Anyone know of a vendor our there that lets you "test drive" a saddle for a little while before buying? BTW, I am probably on the average size for climbers, 5'10" 185lbs if that helps at all too. Thanks again


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## 2treeornot2tree (Oct 6, 2011)

American arborist in west chester, pa has a place in the store that you can hang from a harness. I hung in the ergavation for about 40 mins before spending the money on a harness. I know they are going to the expo, and there prices are really fair.


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## treeoperations (Oct 6, 2011)

ive climbed in a few different saddles im 190cm tall an 100kgs, and love my tree austria, found the buckinghams cut in to my legs or when in the seat my package was crushed.


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## mcfly (Oct 6, 2011)

kdslocum said:


> Go with the edge! its made by buckingham and they will be a seat coming out for it pretty soon im told by buckingham. my previous saddle was a buck versatile with the seat and i loved it. the seats are great for removals but if you do more pruning you want a saddle with alot of mobility. the edge saddle is the "baby" version of the ergovation and its 200 bucks cheaper.


 
I just got an edge last week and I'd recommend it too. It has lots of adjustability, it's light, and it's much more comfortable than my old buckingham pinnacle 4D seat. There's minimal nut crush from the leg loops which was a concern for me coming from a seat.


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## kdslocum (Oct 6, 2011)

mcfly said:


> I just got an edge last week and I'd recommend it too. It has lots of adjustability, it's light, and it's much more comfortable than my old buckingham pinnacle 4D seat. There's minimal nut crush from the leg loops which was a concern for me coming from a seat.


 
:agree2:


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## tree md (Oct 6, 2011)

Del_Corbin said:


> Is this the saddle you are considering?
> 
> Buckingham Deluxe Pinnacle Saddle


 
Yeah, that's the one. I used to climb with the floating D version of that saddle. It was nice and comfy but I am not crazy about a step through saddle (like I have now).


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## oldirty (Oct 6, 2011)

tree md said:


> Yeah, that's the one. I used to climb with the floating D version of that saddle. It was nice and comfy but I am not crazy about a step through saddle (like I have now).


 
very first saddle i owned, buddy. still got it too. it is very similar to the miniboss we got and speaking of the floppy rings on the miniboss did you ever end up using a spreader snap with it? i went from rope bridge to the spreader and reeeaaallly liked the result. i too am now looking into another saddle as the miniboss is starting to get beat up.

i maaay have a good look at the pinnacle again (my first one is too small) but really want to take a hard look at the ergovation with the suspenders and obviously a seat too but problem is that with them 2 options the saddle becomes like 700bones..... lotta scratch for a rig but i gotta question the ergo's durability at that number. you know the buckingham will last but them floppy rings might be too long compared to the miniboss......

what else you thinking of, larry? ever hear of the bry-dan saddle? if that thing came with a seat i'd be all over it.


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## beastmaster (Oct 6, 2011)

I've had my EDGE for maybe 6 months now, and I really like it. It's light weight, yet well padded. So far its holding up well with no signs of ware. For the money, it's a lot of belt. It does what it suppose to and I hardly know I have it on, even at the end of the day. Very conferable.


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## TreeAce (Oct 6, 2011)

I thought the gear loops looked all caddie wompuss on the edge. Seemed like the loops along the top were out of place. I dont doubt its comfy though.


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## Scrat (Oct 6, 2011)

medic2397 said:


> I have been climbing on a Buckingham Classic for 4 years now. I am a big supporter of Buckingham as they are made in the US and more so in my hometown. My other climber has me convinced that a bosun seat style harness is the way to go, so I am definately looking for a bosun seat in my next saddle purchase. I basically have it narrowed down to the Buckingham Ergovation or the Petzl Sequoia Swing. The Ergovation is much more expensive especially once you add in the bosun seat attachment, but it seems to be much more versatile. The Sequoia seems very nice and considerably less. I am looking for input on these two saddles, but if anyone can recommend a different saddle, I'll look into that as well. If anyone has used both please give some feedback on which one you liked better and why. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Luke:msp_confused:


 
Luke
I have both the Ergovation and the Sequoia so first let me say they are both great saddles and both floating bridge, after that they are very different. The Ergo is 6lbs. and bulky where the Sequoia is 3 lbs. and fits close like a pair of favorite climbing pants. Both can do any job but I prefer the Ergo for long day removals because it has a lot of padding, great back support and you can load up with tons of gear including the kitchen sink and an MS460 so your not wasting time waiting for groundies to send things up onsey twoseys. I have had a dozen or more aluminum biners with loop runners when speed lining, half a dozen steel rigging biners and loopie on one side with half a dozen life safety biners a few loops and pulleys for redirects, my Ibuki, a 20' positioning lanyard or steel core flip line and a saw 200T-MS460. Bulky and heavy yes, but on spurs using your largest muscle group,legs, and removing whatever branches that are in the way makes manuvering easy. Versatile yes- two different fall restraint options, about 8 bridge configuration as well as 3 different leg strap styles and bosun seat, dont forget unlimited adjustability in every way fron size to balance point.
The Sequoia is amazing in its own respect that it is very comfortable, super streamlined, weighs nothing and is pretty adjustable in its own respect. It gives good back support, cooler in the summer and really shines when deadwooding or working in a tight canopy when you are working and manuvering through tight crotches and structure. I go minimal gear on it, leave the kitchen sink and excess stuff behind.

Since I have switched to these saddles pinch points, hip squeeze and the infamous and very uncomfortable crushing of the old twig and berries is a thing of the past!

I dont think you could go wrong with either and both is best! But if you can try them out first like at the Expo that would be best.
Too bad your so far west, I would be glad to let you try mine.
Scrat


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## oldirty (Oct 6, 2011)

good post, scrat. thanks.

so you saying that the ergo, all dialed in, is a devastating takedown rig, eh? sweet. did you go with the seat or loops and would you get the suspenders?


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## beastmaster (Oct 6, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> I thought the gear loops looked all caddie wompuss on the edge. Seemed like the loops along the top were out of place. I dont doubt its comfy though.



Yeah, whats up with all those gear loops on top? I still haven't figured them out. I"m going to buy a chest croll ascender harness made for a sequoia saddle and use one of them loops to fix it to my Edge. The edge is a good SRT belt also, if your into that.
Beastmaster


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## troythetreeman (Oct 6, 2011)

the benches are comfortable but you cant sit on a limb with them, like a teeter totter


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## tree md (Oct 7, 2011)

Good post Scrat. I'm going to give the ergo a second look after that. I agree about the Petzl. They are very light and very comfy.

Justin, I have been looking at all of them. My Mini Boss is getting a little beat up but it's still functional. I am wanting to get something with a little more padding and will handle the load of a 440 or 660 better in the tree. If I had it to do over again I would probably have bought the full Boss saddle with the suspenders.


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## Scrat (Oct 7, 2011)

Old dirty
I went with the leg loops and I am very happy with them. You can get the 'Y' or 'H' harness and although I think I would prefer the 'H' for comfort around the neck I am impressed that the 'Y' looks to be better suited for using a chest croll for SRT, it is a fall restraint with I believe both Dorsal and Sternum attachment points, and looks like it has more lateral movement flexability. But to really be able give a fair evaluation I would have use it a while, until then it is just my assumptions.
Scrat


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## Scrat (Oct 7, 2011)

Just to put it out there, on one of the other boards an individual was complaining that on his Ergo the velcro on the leg straps was geting dirty and loaded up with sawdust and not sticking well in only a few months. He said he tried cleaning and washing without much luck. I have been using mine a year without issue and told him I blow off the straps with high pressure shop air regularly.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Oct 7, 2011)

Scrat said:


> Just to put it out there, on one of the other boards an individual was complaining that on his Ergo the velcro on the leg straps was geting dirty and loaded up with sawdust and not sticking well in only a few months. He said he tried cleaning and washing without much luck. I have been using mine a year without issue and told him I blow off the straps with high pressure shop air regularly.


 
It also looked like he was missing a retaining snap on his harness too.


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## sgreanbeans (Oct 7, 2011)

I was looking at the Treemotion, but only goes to a 30" waist. Im a 28" at the start of the day, must be a 27" at the end. I pull mine to the last point, but after working, still gets loose. Wish they made them down to a 26, to account for them loosening up as ya work.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Oct 7, 2011)

I wear a size 40" pants and the tree motion fit me.


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## mcfly (Oct 7, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> I thought the gear loops looked all caddie wompuss on the edge. Seemed like the loops along the top were out of place. I dont doubt its comfy though.



I thought they were weird too. I keep my f8 on a biner on them and other stuff that I don't use much. Having stuff like that on loops higher ups keeps it up behind the back padding and out from under your ass if you have a seat. I'm not sure if that's why they did it but I did end up liking it.


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## jsk (Oct 7, 2011)

buckingham ergovation pro.
Tree Stuff - Buckingham Ergovation Pro Saddle
i have the ergovation and love it it is the best saddle ever amd i can honestly say my weaver cougar with a bosun seat is my second favorite and i havent had a single prob with it. I just have a failsafe rope bridge installed with the stock bridge. the ergovation is still much better.
jason


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## Iustinian (Nov 4, 2011)

*I love my sequioa*

My buddy up in Ames at Dan's has an ergovation and he loves his as well.

For me, lighter is usually better, so that's why I haven't bothered to try the Ergo; anything I get from here on out's gotta be as light as the one I have now. I will say though, that if you read all the reviews, people have said that the stitching comes out of the ERgo, in like less than a year. But my buddy said he's not had that problem with his, so you'll have to read the reviews and see the updates.

One thing to point out with the sequioa is that the rings are removable, so its VERY VERY easy to swap out rope bridges, straps, or any configuration on that thing. I use a petzl ring on the bridge they provide with the saddle, which keeps my carabiners from spreading apart from each other, depending on what system I'm using. The only one thing I haven't liked about it is sometimes that ring will catch on their bridge if I'm stretched out all the way so the ring can get slightly caught one end of the bridge. other than that, its my favorite. that issue could be easily solved if I get a new or different bridge though.

I have another friend who's got the glide lite, and its very comfortable as well. I think they just clearanced a bunch of those on sherills website recently. 

I'd say, if you want lightweight and more mobility, go with the sequioa, but if you're going to be doing a lot of sitting up there, go with the ergo.

I don't think you'll be disappointed by either one.


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## B_Turner (Dec 10, 2012)

I know this is an old thread but it's a timeless subject.....

I am going to visit my brother tomorrow and will hang in his TreeMotion and his Ergo back to back to help me decide on my next saddle. I tend to go for comfort over weight these days.

One thing I don't understand is why the ergo and other B saddles don't have a bigger ring at the terminations of the rope bridge (plates). The holes are all rope or biner sizes while the TM has connect holes almost as big as a regular D. I really like that.

My primary lanyards have snaps on the working end, and don't look to fit on a Ergo lower connect point. My snaps need a min of about 1 inch opening :msp_sad:


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## B_Turner (Dec 13, 2012)

Spent a little time with the ergo and tm yesterday. I brought one of my brother's TM saddles home with me to try for a couple weeks to get a better idea of what I think.

So far I think the Ergo is slightly more comfortable for someone a touch wimpy and soft (5'10 and currently 185) esp with lots of gear, saw, etc.

Tm seems maybe only less comfortable for me (so far) and obviously lighter and more nimble.

For me one of my hangups on buying an ergo is how the lower connecting plates won't accept a alum rope snap and in fact really don't quite fully accept my captive eye biner I have on one of my lanyards. 

The TM has huge rings on the lower connections (almost bigger than necessary). I really like that aspect. I have a little extra in the belly these days (sad but true) and one thing that bothers me about the TM is how narrow the waist strap is as compared to any other saddle. I dont' know what they were thinking. In fact the Ergo not only has a wide strap, they have that velcro belly pad for us Americans who are packing an extra 10 lbs....

My next step will be to climb in the TM for a while and then maybe borrow his Ergo.

Funny as it sounds, if the Ergo had a bigger extra connection point on the saddle/rope bridge I would be very close to just buying one or if the TM had a wider waist strap I might just try one of those.....Both seem like great saddles.

To be fair, one of the things my brother likes better about the ergo (although these days he usually works in one of his TMs) is that the multiple small holes in the buckingham plates make it easier when he runs an adjustable rope bridge. Although if sleeping in a tree hammock he says the TM is a no brainer.

I also borrowed his Uni and some other stuff including 350ft of a really low stretch rope for playing with long ascents using mechanical ascenders. Never tried a uni yet....

And I stopped by Wesspur and picked up some more HRC to put on my HH. IMO it works much better than the beeline the HH came with.....


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## mcfly (Dec 13, 2012)

The big lower D's on the TM are very nice. I got a TM finally after Thanksgiving and am extremely happy with it. My saddle when I first posted in this thread was an edge from sherrill, which is basically and ergo lite.

I did the liger mod to the edge and considered that a big improvement. I was clipping into the largest hole on the rigging plates with my lanyard for a while. Eventually I decided that every small mod I made to the saddle was just making it closer to how a TM functions.

I'd have no problem recommending an edge/ergo lite but those big lower D's on the TM are very nice.

I had also heard about guys saying they had to spend a long time dialing in their TM. I think I spent about 10 minutes hanging in it and adjusting the bridge length and straps to get it to sit comfortably. Not a big deal at all.

HRC is nice on the HH. Give some armor prus a shot too. It works very well with my imori.


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## B_Turner (Dec 13, 2012)

mcfly said:


> The big lower D's on the TM are very nice. I got a TM finally after Thanksgiving and am extremely happy with it. My saddle when I first posted in this thread was an edge from sherrill, which is basically and ergo lite.
> 
> I did the liger mod to the edge and considered that a big improvement. I was clipping into the largest hole on the rigging plates with my lanyard for a while. Eventually I decided that every small mod I made to the saddle was just making it closer to how a TM functions.
> 
> ...



I spent a couple hours in the TM today and liked it. I didn't adjust it that much from my brother's setting, except waist and legs. (He's about my size but much trimmer.) Felt light and comfortable. My brother runs his leg loops much looser than I am used to but I tried that and sort of liked it much more than I expected.

Still think the waist belt should be wider. But I LOVED the lower D's and no longer can imagine being without them. Hopefully tomorrow I can spend some more time getting used to it.

I have never climbed with a rope bridge ring before, and was surprised how much more easily it slid side to side than a biner. But not quite as free as a roller on a pulley. Liked it.

I still plan to hang in an ergo back to back with the TM, but got to say I am liking the TM a lot so far.

In the meantime I have obtained both CT and RE mini plates to consider a liger mod on my current saddle. Like some things about each plate as a candidate. But like you say, each step is simply making it closer to a "real" saddle.


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## zackpace (Dec 25, 2012)

checkout bucks new ergolite spartan. (same as the edge basically) its lighter than the ergo but with more padding than the seqouiah. has the same awesome rope bridge setup as its big brother. wesspur is the only place ive seen em. i think im getting one soon


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## Incomplete (Dec 25, 2012)

I can't imagine being without that lower lanyard attachment point. When I got my Cougar in the spring I tried it on and felt bound across the hips. I did the Liger upgrade with CT rigging plates, big hole out, and a three foot section of my new climbing line with two rings, before I even climbed in it. All permanent ropes are in the small holes. Took a little adjusting on the bridge length, but no bound hips, and free running attachments. That lower secondary lanyard attachment is AWESOME, no doubled up rope clips, NO confusion as to which rope clip to undo/don't touch. 

That being said, the Cougar doesn't have enough utility space. It's been a good entry level saddle, but I am so saving up for the TM.


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## B_Turner (Dec 26, 2012)

Incomplete said:


> I can't imagine being without that lower lanyard attachment point. When I got my Cougar in the spring I tried it on and felt bound across the hips. I did the Liger upgrade with CT rigging plates, big hole out, and a three foot section of my new climbing line with two rings, before I even climbed in it. All permanent ropes are in the small holes. Took a little adjusting on the bridge length, but no bound hips, and free running attachments. That lower secondary lanyard attachment is AWESOME, no doubled up rope clips, NO confusion as to which rope clip to undo/don't touch.
> 
> That being said, the Cougar doesn't have enough utility space. It's been a good entry level saddle, but I am so saving up for the TM.



I ligered my cougar with the RE plates and some short webbing between my leg loops and plate and it is so much an improvement. I now hang perfectly. Can't imagine now having a non adjustable bridge without floating rings and a place to clip in at the plate. Could absolutely never climb on a stock cougar again. For extra storage I hooked a Kong paddle biner on each side where there is a place made for it. Really helps. Stole the idea from one of my brothers saddles.

But I had one of his TM's borrowed for a while and now one of his ergos so I am spoiled enough I will eventually buy one of those two for myself.

But I have to say with some mods my cougar was absolutely transformed in terms of comfort and usability. Only finally got around to it after trying better saddles and realizing what I was missing. Main complaint now is the side d as too far back for me and not adjustable.


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