# Crossbow in stump moves / problems.



## M.D. Vaden (Jan 3, 2005)

I got an email today from someone with a tree problem. [EDIT - just noticed the pesticide forum...anyway. There's only one thread in there. Maybe it's a good forum merge - END OF EDIT)

They hired a tree service or arborist to remove an aspen. The tree was removed, and a while later other trees died. The homeowner asked if chemical was put in the drilled holes and the service said no.

The homeowner hire a consulting arborist and soil samples were taken showing chemicals were on the property and the Dept. of Ag guys got involved and said alll point to pesticides. The tree service fessed up when told about the reports.

The homeowner, I believe, is contacting me to reaffirm the consulting arborist position, but also provide figures and ideas on the cost of repairing the landscape situation.

There's tons of proof on this so I hear.

What I was interested in - have any of you ran across this kind of damage in your areas?

Apparently this homeowner gave no okay for pesticide use on the property. They said the tree service was stating the hole drilling and pouring method was like an "industry staple" for methods. I am familiar with it, but don't think it's quite that common. Even if the label allows it, the label is not going to allow spread.

What do you folks think of this practice? To be avoided? 

It was done by employees not under supervision. And I don't know if the tree service owner or boss is a licensed applicator or operator.

I was impressed by the documentation the homeowner came at me with before asking for landscape remedies. Most homeowers I hear from are in step zero or step one - just getting a grasp on the basics.


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## Matt Follett (Jan 3, 2005)

_Populus tremuloides_ or Quaking Aspen, often multiply prolificaly (sp?) by root shoots... if the other trees affected in the area were same spieces bets are they were part of same tree, or at least involved with some underground closeness (root grafting)... Any application of a herbicide (particluarly glysophate such as Round-Up) to the destroyed tree, would be translocated through roots to neigbouring trees.... could very well kill in significant concentration! _Populus grandidentata_ Big tooth aspen.. me thinks it is similar in characteristics, though not so certain about colonization effects like _P. tremuloides_ 

Anyway, wouldn't be suprised about the damage if that was the case.... any word from the Tree Co. what the herbicide was?

Edit Doh... just saw the "crossbow" end edit


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## FBX1986 (Jan 3, 2005)

let me get this straight chemical stump removal?


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## M.D. Vaden (Jan 3, 2005)

It was a regular removal with a chainsaw, workers and chipper.

They drilled the stump around it's edge and poured crossbow or a mix of it with water in the holes.

I know aspen can root graft, but the chemical analysis verifies the crossbow moved into the soil in the back yard - not from stump to remaining trees.

It seems if they filled the holes, that rainwater could have flooded it out and moved it around with runoff water.


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## Matt Follett (Jan 3, 2005)

Just read the MSDS, and product lables on that stuff... (unfamilar)... man that's some scary herbicide! remains active in soil... affects alot of plants...


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## SteveBullman (Jan 3, 2005)

just realized crossbow was a herbicide, title of this thread had me a little confused


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## NickfromWI (Jan 3, 2005)

I was at a job for an Aspen removal once where this technique was used to prevent the stump (which wasn't being grinded) from sprouting/suckering back up.

So did they do it for that, or did they do it so they'd get called back to remove all the other dead trees that "somehow" died?

love
nick


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## che (Jan 3, 2005)

Here's some light reading about Triclopyr (one ingredient in Crossbow, the other is 2,4-D.) It's a pdf file, you'll need Acrobat to read it.


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## che (Jan 3, 2005)

*Easier reading......*



> Triclopyr is not strongly bound by soil particles, thus it could potentially leach into groundwater or run off into surface waters. However, it has rarely been detected in groundwater monitoring surveys. Triclopyr has residual herbicidal activity in soils (half-life approximately 6 weeks). *Desirable plants can be injured by spray drift, or if their roots are exposed to triclopyr in the soil. *Triclopyr has low to moderate toxicity to humans and wildlife.



from:
http://www.hort.uconn.edu/cipwg/art_pubs/GUIDE/consideration.htm


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## alanarbor (Jan 5, 2005)

sounds like an over application issue. I usually use Garlon (Triclopyr) as a stump killer, but the actual amount used is ususally less than 1-2 oz. Just enough to spray the cut surface. "Pouring" sounds a bit excessive


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## OutOnaLimb (Jan 5, 2005)

I prefer to use Arsenol. It becomes inert after 24hrs.

Kenn


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## treeman45246 (Jan 5, 2005)

From what I understand, aspen don't just root graft, but come up in groves from a shared root system. Genetic samples come up identical over groves which are acres in size. This argument has been used to declare groves of aspens among the largest living organisms on earth. Hope the link works...

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0601.htm#aspen


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