# Power lines



## Eagle1 (Dec 28, 2003)

Stupid question, but honest.

If you are in a tree removing branches, and you happen to make contact with the power line with the branch you are tring to throw down or drop do you get zapped? No metal contact. 

Rope lanyard, but wearing spikes. 

I ask this question because I have a story after the reply. It is a good one.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 28, 2003)

i think spurs biting into the watery layers of tree will conduct better you to the ground; not good!

So if there is any chance of any such thing, i call for a free safety trim from the utility; and not just cuz the price is right. On private lines the free line drop is affordable and recomended too!

The more resistors, the higher up, further apart (the lines) the more power; all those add ons cost more, and are required as the power raises and so budgeted in, but someone pays for it, so is not done out of boredumb or excess materials.


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## Guy Meilleur (Dec 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eagle1 _
> * you happen to make contact with the power line with the branch you are tring to throw down or drop do you get zapped? *


In my brief utility career I got zapped twice in the scenario you describe. One was a tip-heavy green ash branch that I misjudged; I was seeing some bright stars for quite awhile (which may explain a lot). It was not a really high-voltage line, never mind spurs or none or how much water's in the tree; avoid contact at all costs!


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## ORclimber (Dec 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eagle1 _
> *.If you are in a tree removing branches, and you happen to make contact with the power line with the branch you are tring to throw down or drop do you get zapped? *



It is best to assume you will. There are many variables involved.

Electricity follows the easiest path to ground. If going through the branch and climber is the easiest path to ground....zap! 

I have made indirect contact with branch to 7.2kv lines several times accidentally. Sometimes I got zapped, sometimes not. 

Have also seen many branches hanging on primaries and making contact with neutral. If current was flowing through the branch it should spark, smoke, or blow the fuse. Sometimes they don't.


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## NeTree (Dec 28, 2003)

You may or may not, depending on the condition of the branch. Too many variables, and there's a reason only line clearance certified arborists are supposed to work near power lines.


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## Eagle1 (Dec 28, 2003)

All good answers. All true.

we rigged a mid size pine branch. Started lowering the branch down and it got cought on a small stub tha I failed to flush cut on the way up. Anyway, I grabbed the rope and started to yank and pull to free the limb. Well, with all that the branch shifted to the other side of the tree and handed on a power line. I was still holding the bull rope and so was my groundie. Nothing....nothing happened. I pulled it back up and down making alot of contact with the wire. After a while we lowered the branch and wondered why no sparks, nothing!!

This was a power line.
??????

Lucky? 
Any guesses?


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 28, 2003)

There are all sorts of rules and tricks when working around energized lines. I'm lucky I wasn't killed many times when I was an untrained newbie trimming for the city.

There are different types of lines; Basically, the little ones and the big ones. Personally, I preferred working with the big one cause they don't have the tendency to 'grab on and you'. The big ones knock you away(usually).

Rocky gave you a good answer. I would just add that, in reference to the 'grounded' part, electricity is gonna take the EASIEST PATH TO THE GROUND.

Key word - easiest. The trick is to not let yourself be the easiest path. I've been the easiest path several times, ranging to mild discomfort to having to take off a week cause my right arm and shoulder were stoved up from being zapped. This was all back in 'the day'.

Something else. All two phase lines have a ground wire that is not energized. We've all seen it. The line that isn't burning even when its all wrapped up in tree. You can even look at the transformer and follow it all the way to the ground. I always liked to know which was which when I was working in close proximity with them.

The ground wire ain't gonna do diddly to you unless it has somehow become energized. Its that hot one thats looking for a nice, easy path to the ground. But your supposed to treat both of them as if they were hot. This is part of the 'may or may not' Erik was talking about. Like he said, many variables involved.

Heck, when in doubt do as TreeSpyder suggested and get the utility trim. I do it ALL the time. I know all the guys, their doing what I was doing back in the 70's. I can usually get 'em to do a little extra!  

Eagle1, either that was a well insulated wire, or you slapped the ground wire. Next time, trace it out to the pole and the transformer if your still curious.




And yea, Spidey, I HAVE felt that 'lil tingle in my gaffs!


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## treehugger01 (Dec 28, 2003)

I did a tree that 3 other climbers came out of. Once I got to where they got up to I saw why. Climbing past the line my attached saw swung and almost touched the lines. It was close and it was dead no problem a tree close by to rope it to. Things went great. A limb did break out and land on the feeds a small fingerling and sizzled the entire time I did the tree. I've seen power companies come and take 1/2 a day to do one limb. Then I finish the entire tree before they can get away.I told them Im glad my boss called you to do that limb I couldnt have done the tree without you. Power lines=no chances to me


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## Eagle1 (Dec 28, 2003)

Thank you all.
Next time I will call for the power comp. to trim it up for me.
I don,t want my luck to run out.


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## ORclimber (Dec 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eagle1 _
> *This was a power line.
> ?????? *



Did you ID the lines before beginning work on the tree? That's important. The EHAP manual, or an Asplundh formans manual contain good info on line ID. Also spending some time with a local utility forester could help with that. The utility foresters here are good about educating tree companies if they call.


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## Eagle1 (Dec 28, 2003)

Rock, love the new flying squirl thing. Hey, havent I seen you running on top of powerlines? with the greatest ease!!


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## treehugger01 (Dec 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eagle1 _
> *Thank you all.
> Next time I will call for the power comp. to trim it up for me.
> I don,t want my luck to run out. *



The power companies have limits too
Thats when they call us dude. Cranes Jobs Etc.

Yes rocky I consider all lines charged.Even doing rental property thats unoccupied say a small service drop. I think squirrles eat the protective covering on them service drops I dont take any chances around powerlines..


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## Ax-man (Dec 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> Heck, when in doubt do as TreeSpyder suggested and get the utility trim. I do it ALL the time. I know all the guys, their doing what I was doing back in the 70's. I can usually get 'em to do a little extra!
> : [/B]



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That is the kind of relationship that used to exist here with the line clearance guys. But all that has changed in the last ten years and not for the better.

Too many private tree companies have taken advantage of the utilities " free of charge, to clear wires, in the interest of safety".If a phase wire was any near a tree, they would have the line clearance guys come out and virtually do most of the work, pro bono of course, then turn around and charge customers full prices for the tree work. It wasn't long before the utilities wised up and put a stop to it, now they just do the minumim.

When ComEd merged with Peco, Peco brought Asplundh with them to do the line clearing. Now if you need a trim done, you have to call in a job or work order so to speak, they send out someone to access the job, they make up some kind of estimate and the contractor requesting the work done is charged for said work, which gets done when it is convenient for them to schedule.

I don't how it is in other parts of the country, but I would say this is just a preview of things to come, if it already hasn't happened in other parts of the country.

I have had a few other rubs over the last few years with the utilities. Getting them in the act when it comes to doing tree work is a last resort. What used to be a pleasant experience has now turned into something that you would rather avoid like getting the flu.


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 28, 2003)

Hey, they can come out and clear their lines, or they can set new ones!


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## treehugger01 (Dec 28, 2003)

I had to many angery faces in my post to post.
Big money power utility contracting companys Suck!


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## ORclimber (Dec 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by treehugger01 _
> *I had to many angery faces in my post to post.
> Big money power utility contracting companys Suck!
> *



Maybe. But, not knowing the difference between energized and non-energized lines swallows.


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## treehugger01 (Dec 28, 2003)

They hoard all that money and dont train their men
Ive seen um fall 3 feet from me. 
Soon I'll be qualified Arborist. I'll have quiet simular qualification as a regional supervison over thousands of miles of line for say Asplundh. Id sooner help these big money hoarding companies out than id rather tinker with unexploded carpet bombs. I got zero respect for these big companies. None the works however do it all with just about nothing. Close to getting zapped. Honestly I'm surprised the tree workers even know that the powerlines have e l e c t r i c v o l t a g e in the silver wire.
Their training is that of kindergarden.  
Ill say again Asplundh sucks!


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## Eagle1 (Dec 29, 2003)

The power companies have limits too
Thats when they call us dude. Cranes Jobs Etc.
posted by "Treehugger01"

What? I don't understand that.
Do you work for a bucket based tree company? I was wondering because of all your "The Fly" posts.
If the power companies have limits than it's the contracted tree companies that you hate so much that would be called in.


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## NeTree (Dec 29, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *Hey, they can come out and clear their lines, or they can set new ones!  *




B-I-N-G-O


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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 29, 2003)

Rocky wrote:

A clean, dry rope is not conductive.

__________________
RockyJ
aka Brian

You'll never get a rope manufacturer to vouch for that. 

Over the years of helping at EHAP training I've asked every journeyman lineman if he would ever use a rope or throwline to move a wire. They have all looked at me with "What-are-you-stupid?" eyes. None of them would ever do it so I won't either. 

LIke you said, too man variables.

Tom


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## NeTree (Dec 29, 2003)

Probably (well, definitely...) off-topic, but in regards to line clearance, anyone know why Echo stopped exporting the PPFD-2400 (the yellow dialectric) power-pruner to the US?

I have one here I use when I need to clear the lines, but the parts are getting scarce too.


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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 29, 2003)

Yeah, aluminum 

Ok, got the context...but...the same issues. Clean, dry rope is highly di-electric but it can still conduct electricity.

Tom


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## njarbor (Dec 29, 2003)

a few weeks ago a guy was working the tree next to me . he dropped a branch on a primary and it made contact with my tree, leaving me to get tingled for about 10 minutes until they got the branch off. you can just use your handsaw. best bet is to keep a wooden or fiberglass polesaw or clipwithin reach if you are near any primarys


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## UNBforester (Dec 29, 2003)

Eagle1:

Sounds like you got pretty lucky on that one by making indirect contact with a neutral wire. Got any pictures of the tree and wires you were working close to? 

I just you to ponder something here. One, you do not know what line you touched therefore you are not trained to work anywhere close to the lines. Secondly, if you did get a serious enough current flowing through you and became immoblized or worse, could your groundie bring you down or is there someone close that can? And finally, once you hit the ground is there someone there that can provide CPR or the necessary first aid. Because otherwise you're dead.

Better consider all these things and more because you only live once. Get some EHAP training, just might save you hide one day


Later
Dave


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 29, 2003)

The guy didn't want me to take pictures for here, but 6 mos. or so back, i saw a climber being driven around, that had the meat burnt off to the bone under a forefinger on palm, also next to his eye/ temple right along that protruding bone leading down to cheek. Said he'd been out of it for 3 daze, was just going back to doc. A week later it looked real nasty...........

i'll specialize in what i can, and stay clear of that 'lectric; let someone else make that their thing, Thank-you!

Made a beleiver outta that fella too; he had less place there around electric than i!

:alien:


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 29, 2003)

I actually kinda enjoy working around energized wires, in a twisted sorta way. It all kinda boils down to the 'rush' we all feel just doing our crazy-ass job.

Hot wires put me into a state of readiness that no other aspect of treework can do. I get off on that feeling - that 'rush'. I enjoy defeating the Demon Beast that is trying to KILL YOU!

But, thats just me...


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## NeTree (Dec 29, 2003)

ANY line of work can be dangerous; it's all about what YOU do to protect yourself- education, training, and applying it all.


Mass Electric has an EHAP program:

Contact: 
Guy H. Shepard, Senior Arborist
Massachusetts Electric Company
1101 Turnpike St
North Andover, MA 01845 
Phone: (978) 725-1000


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## Dobber (Dec 30, 2003)

*trimming near power lines*

There are procedures in place to trimming near energized conductors, If you are not familiar with them then you should not be in the tee. Luck will only take you so far. everyone made some good points (well mostly everyone) but nobody said that this person was untrained and should stay away from the tree alltogether.


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## Eagle1 (Dec 31, 2003)

Are you implying that I should stay away from trees?


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## NeTree (Dec 31, 2003)

Nah, just the ones next to power lines. 

Actually, ANSI states that only qualified line-clearance arborists (or their trainees) may work within 10 feet of an energized conductor.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 31, 2003)

i heard him say that i should stay away from trees with high energized conductors if that is something i'm not specifically trained in cuz'even in this field; that is a specialty.

i've heard those words in different forms before and recognize them well. i believe in them and follow them. i take on enough risk, and shave those few times with the most risk in that particular depatment (and a few others); like a strategic plan to drop risk for whole year in a very few (non)steps.

And we got guys, that come in and do it for the customer for free, or take down private line; same price. So i lose no face or anything, customer $aves some in the goodwill and good sense package; that i confidentally, fairly present with full disclosure. If they think that is wussing out, they can get up thar! We all done stared the devil in the face enough times walking a thin line of safety, ta have anything to prove or rush at. IMLHO.


"There are olde climbers,
and there are bold climbers;
But thar t'aint no old/bold climbers!"

Cuz that herd gets thinned!


Oooooor something like that!
:alien:


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## Dobber (Dec 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Eagle1 _
> *Are you implying that I should stay away from trees? *


No I am saying stay away from yhe trees that are near powerlines untill you have a better understanding of the risks involved and get some training. power lines can be very unforgiving, just for an Idea look up Electrical accidents It might give you a clearer picture of what could happen.


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## Climber2 (Jan 1, 2004)

I would like to know more about how conductive a rope can be. We do a lot of bad overhand in back lots where the rigging line comes in contact with the hot wire. Usually when rigging from across the right-of-way. Never been shocked that way but only do trees that bad on dry days. Our company policy is that the only piece of equipment we have to remove a burning hanger is our hydraulic pole saw. Our fibergl??? poles are batch tested and not to be used.

Mike


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## Eagle1 (Jan 1, 2004)

Rocky,
What is less conductive. Wood or Fibragl????


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## NeTree (Jan 1, 2004)

Strictly speaking, fibergla$$.

Wood tends to wick moisture, and it's the moisture that can conduct electricity.

Ropes should NEVER be relied upon to insulate you from electricty. NEVER NEVER NEVER!

Dealing with power lines requires special tools, and specialized techniques and training to do it safelt. It is a task best left to those qualified to do it. PERIOD.

It only takes one hundredth of an ampere at less that one volt to stop your heart. Keeping that in mind, remember that materials such as wood and rope aren't necessarily INSULATORS, but more usually RESISTORS... cutting the flow of electricity down, but not eliminating it. 

I can't stress enough how important the right tools and training are required to work around power lines.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 1, 2004)

Well said, Erik of the North.

Luv yur avatar!


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## NeTree (Jan 1, 2004)

Thanks Butch!

You wouldn't believe what I had to do to make it!


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## ORclimber (Jan 1, 2004)

Asplundh supplies wooden poles to their crews here, because they are cheaper than fiberglass. The wooden poles pull many branches off the primaries, but they don't inspire much confidence working in the rain. Wet dirty ropes are definately more conductive. I've been shocked through wet climb lines that made contact with the primary and seen others do the same thing. Also, the cords on pole pruners become conductive when wet. A lot of guys will lube the pruners with bar oil and accidentally spill on the cord making it attract dirt and become more conductive. Even with an insulator on the pull cord sometimes a branch tip will sneak to the uninsulated part of the cord.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 1, 2004)

i've read this from Tom a few times over the years:



> _Originally posted by Tom Dunlap _
> *
> 
> ->A clean, dry rope is not conductive.<-
> ...




i've asked a few myself, and imagine Tom has been hitting them all along. i think anything porous or dirty is ruled out automatically for hot sticks as a material period, and though some might get by; i don't think it should get blanket endorsement, and maybe should start the rumor that the rumor is an olde wives tail about rropes being good for this, until really proven totally true in all cases on wires under 50' with ropes in all conditions, absolutely recomendable to any newbie/ passerby- hey we got this great stuff- go grab it..... If you say clean, how clean is clean percieved to be needed to be in an emergency, by who (even if a perfect, virgin, dry rope theoretically might....)



All the more reason ta'leave lines alone, to me!


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## NeTree (Jan 1, 2004)

We had the same cheap wooden poles, but we only used them for clipping around secondaries, never for removing hangers from primaries or the like.


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## NeTree (Jan 1, 2004)

I just think it's far safer to treat anything not specifically marked as being dialectric as a possible conductor.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 1, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *I just think it's far safer to treat anything not specifically marked as being dialectric as a possible conductor. *




Well said, AGAIN!


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## topnotchtree (Jan 2, 2004)

I have witnessed an arching demonstration put on by the utility co and the union where the guy drew current through a kite string. He also stuck his hand in a rubber glove and rubbed it all over a conductor, then removed his hand and shoved a raw hot dog in a finger of the glove. Then he poked a hole in the glove finger with a sewing needle. Then touched the conductor with the glove. The hot dog was burnt to a crisp. The voltage was 4800. Line clearance guys do some crazy things, but most of us know what we can get away with safely. First of all we know how to ID the lines and get a pretty good idea of the voltage we are working with. I read somewhere in this thread where someone suggested using a handsaw to remove a hanger from a wire. Although the wood handle on the saw may not conduct, the screws on the handle that hold the blade in will get ya.


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## Climber2 (Jan 2, 2004)

Maybe I wasn't clear. The only piece of equipment we have that we are allowed to pull a hanger with is our hydraulic pole saw which is dialectrically tested every year not a hand saw. We don't carry one around with us when climbing but we can't use fiberglass poles because ours are batch tested.

Mike


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 2, 2004)

In high school, the next town over had a bad storm, a power line got knocked down, down the drive from this mobile home. After the storm, this family came out to of their house 1 by 1 onto the wooden front porch.

There was so much whatever power, invisible from down at the pole, that it made this arched dome or something around it's area. Each person as they stepped out, dropped dead without warning, maybe the 2nd or 3 rd went to see what happened to the 1st etc. till it wiped out the family of 8; emptied the full house. The kids didn't get a free walk either. Fairly indiscriminate.

It was said to be some strange phenomenon, that gave them no sign, they weren't real close etc. The next year, a guy down at the local factory got between 2 linking RR cars; caught in those big C Latches somewhere in the gut region. They could do nothing for him or his pain, real small town; his wife was brought down to say good bye before the cars were unhooked, allowing the hemmoraging. i said, that doesn't have to happen to me, or fella standing next to; i knew to look both ways before tracing close to/thru a flow of power.

Electricity is awesome force, a seething monster -just trying to get you; just waiting for ya to get to close to it's reach; counting/cussing the minutes it waits without seeming to care. ilet the snake handlers, with the snake gloves take care of it. We should respect it and other awesome forces. With trees, we should have a front row seat, of what awesome forces can do in one small way, we see it all the time in trees, saws, lines, vehichles etc. And thereby know how easily one can be overconfident and just not really see what they are dancing with; till it shows 'em; or every tenth one like them; becasue there was one lil trick/observation that they didn't know, so put them in the red. The differance between death and success can be degrees and feet.

i've also been in the tree, and seen swaying wires arcing sparks on neighboring green, watery branch tips. i know for sure one time i reported it, and nothing was done; 2 weeks later they might have been taller or wetter; but they all burnt down!

Orrrrr something like that!
:alien:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 4, 2004)

I was going through the picture archive and came across this pic of electrical contact.

He lived at least,


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## Eagle1 (Jan 4, 2004)

Oh my God sweet Jesus!!

I think I have turned a new leaf near power lines. 
Now THAT is a usefull post/pic.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 4, 2004)

Heck Eagle, ya outta see the DEAD ones!  

You can't be scared of the lines. But they demand respect, and proper training.


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## Eagle1 (Jan 4, 2004)

MB I can only imagine the dead ones. Only diff is that the poor bas**** that is dead dosn't see his desicrated body.

Put it this way. I have a new founded respect for lines since this post and pics.

That arm looks like an over cooked chicken wing, and I am having wings and beer right now!!


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## MidwestTree (Jan 4, 2004)

Many of you understand electricity and I am not passing judgement but advice. If you have any questions about powerlines it is useful to attend a class. The power companies give these all the time. Alot to local (volunteer) fire depts. They usually are good programs and you might learn just one thing that could save your life. Even guys that work around them all the time should step back and rethink what they are doing. I know that it is human nature to become "comfortable" dealing with dangerous things and that comfort can lead to the small mistake that gets you.

Always lean toward the side of safety.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 4, 2004)

Allways tie in so you will swing away...

To reenfocre a point from John Ball's lecture on injuries and fatalities. Many that had electrical contact had a rescue of the initial victim, and recovery of the crew member who atempted rescue..


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## topnotchtree (Jan 5, 2004)

We were shown pictures in our apprentice classes. The thing I was really amazed at is the fact that electric burns happen from the inside out. A pic right after an electrical contact showed a redness to the skin at first. A day later the skin turned brown, then black as the skin cells were dying off. It got worse as the days progressed. We are shown stuff like this every couple of years or so just to keep our minds sharp on what we are doing. I think it does help.


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## Dobber (Jan 9, 2004)

This a pic of an untrained worker after an accident. Look his name up if you like, there is lots to see if you feel like reading. his name was Lewis Wheelan, just started a summer job with a friend of his fathers who owns the contracted company. Took a hit from a fallen conductor, lost his right arm and part of both legs, due to all the scar tissue his body couldnt keep it self cool without air conditioning. When the 2003 black out happened he lost the air conditioning, causing him to slowly overheat untill he passed out and never woke up.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 9, 2004)

Thats a crying shame, man.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 9, 2004)

i think that story deserves a place in "Injuries & Fatalities"; so that it will be recorded in an easy to find place when messages and numbers about such things are assembled/reviewed. Surely a high impact picture and story; that might make a life saving differance/impression on 1 or more people.


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## Crofter (Jan 9, 2004)

I posted this a while back regarding the same incident.

Liability for ensuring Sub Contractors Work Safely 

A local utility company was fined $250,000. for failing to ensure that a subcontractor was providing adequate training and following safe work practices. An 18 year old on his second day on the summer job was electocuted when a tree was felled across power lines bringing them down on him. He lost both legs, one arm plus fingers from the remaining hand. He died a year later. The person running the saw for the Neat Site brushing company is on trial for unsafe cutting practices. Tree lean or wind bound the saw and he called two co-workers to push the tree. (no ropes and cutting within 6 feet of other persons) As they pushed he cut some more and I suppose cut the hinge completely off and the tree came over backward taking the lines down on top of the brush dragger. The company was originally hired just to brush but were later given the nod to take down hazard trees.
So I guess just making sure that your sub. has insurance doesn't get you off the hook if $hit hits the fan.

Frank


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder _
> *i think that story deserves a place in "Injuries & Fatalities"; *



i've been thinking of moving it for a while now. Though it started out as a question of process.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 16, 2004)

i think i have missed recomending the ACRT SAG (Student Activity Guide) for the US labor corps for urban forestry. There is a section or so to Elec. hazard; in the general manual; for background only, not to replace a complete course certainly.

i present this to instill fear/respect; not a fallse confidance that it is all ya gotta know. Perhaps with the pictures of victims and a scan of a participle of the amount of things you need to know for Line Clearance; and how much thought has gone into making it safe as it is; how to read some of the 'signs'; more informed decisions can be made.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 16, 2004)

These are from the same US Dept. of Labor Corp's Urban Foresty Manual, by ACRT.

It shows ANSI/OSHA clearances in feet/meters for trained and untrained personel.

i've seen TV cable people after a storm, facing a bare arm hairs towards a downed cable, saying that is how they were taught to 'read' if the line had become electrified!  Interesting phenomenon proposed; i don't think it is foolpruf or wise on wet ground after a storm; if it all.....

Sapwood and the human body are fair conductors to these voltages/amps. Even on a residentail drop at 220, i consider more risk before the fuse box, than after!


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## NeTree (Jan 16, 2004)

The human body is about 70% salt water. A BEAUTIFUL conductor, indeed!


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## topnotchtree (Jan 16, 2004)

As a general rule, the bigger the insulators the more power. But there are always exceptions. Like doing emergency repairs the lineman will use available hardware on hand, not necessarily the proper stuff.


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## NeTree (Jan 16, 2004)

While I have it in mind, alot of guys are under the impression that the black coating on some primary lines is insulation. 

It's not.

It's only a weatherproofing, and is neither intended as an insulator, or to be relied upon as such.

FWIW!


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 16, 2004)

Amen!

One more pic/collection along the Human Conductor topic; from the same source: US Dept. of Labor Corp's Urban Foresty Manual, by ACRT. When asked before about recomended books; i think we missed this book!


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## Eagle1 (Jan 16, 2004)

Now that is usefull stuff. Thanks


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## Dobber (Jan 16, 2004)

*safety in line clearing*

if any of you are serious about knowing the hazards in working near energized conductors look up eusa safe practice guide and order the line clearing operations book. this is concidered the law in Ontario, you may find it very informative. unfortunatly you cant look up any rules on their web site (I guess safety is only a factor if they can make money off of the sale of books) otherwize PM me and I will look it up for you.


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## highpoint-utd (Jan 16, 2004)

hm always wondered why in the us mains electric cables are overhead and not buried in the deck like here in the uk ?the only tree work carried out near live cable is on national grid pylons and national grid networks .


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## Crofter (Jan 16, 2004)

*Eye Opener*

Something I found interesting at a safety course put on by Ontario Hydro was the fact that electrical lines can move up and down 5 or 10 feet over a short period of time due toad changes on the line. The difference in temperature due to load can change the tension that much. Where you had enough clearance in the morning could put you dangerously close later in the day. Over a certain voltage requires a continuous spotter.

Frank


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## topnotchtree (Jan 16, 2004)

Underground wires are not always the best as most people think. Overhead wires run cooler,and when there is a problem it is usually easy to locate and fix.When underground wires have problems,and they do get their share of them, the faults are hard to find. And then hard to get to to fix! Besides, if all power lines were underground I would not have a job!


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## NeTree (Jan 16, 2004)

That's why lines strung in the summer are deliberately left with some slack, so the line can contract in cold weather without breaking from too much tension.

The electrical resistance of the line converts power into heat. This is why energizing a line is called "heating it up" in linemans' slang.

How much the line will lengthen/shorten with varying load depends on alot of factors, such as length of span, conductor material, conductor diameter, ambient temperature and the actual load applied.

Lines will tend to lengthen with:
Higher ambient temps
Aluminum conductors
High electrical loads
Smaller diameter lines (which have a higher resistance)

...and shorten when the reverse is true.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 16, 2004)

*DOYURDOODIE*

Hey, this is a great thread ya'll.

Lets archive it properly by rating it.

Hmmmmm?


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