# Question about Woods Porting?



## Shrug (Aug 17, 2010)

Hey guys, I am new to this site. Anyway, I recently bought a Husqvarna 390XP and I am very interested in getting it woods ported. Until I discovered this site I did not even know that such a thing existed, but now knowing that it does, I really wanna get some work done to my saw. 

My main question is this. Who do you guys recommend I have do the work to my saw? I figured this would be the best place to ask about this kind of thing. I have seen a few names thrown around regarding this topic on this site in other posts, that is how I found out about porting in the first place. 

My 390XP is currently my only saw, and I would really love to get it running to the best of its potential so that I can achieve a higher rate of production with it. That, and I am also going to a 36" bar very soon and I would like to have the extra power so that it does not get bogged down ever.

I also read that if done correctly not only is the power and production increased, but so is the life of the saw due to things such as heat reduction. That is definitely something I wanna experience. 

Anyway, I hope you guys can help me out here. I look forward to hearing from you on this subject.


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## mdavlee (Aug 17, 2010)

Treeslingr and Brad are two that are site sponsors. There is enough knowledge on here to do it yourself it you want to. You could do a simple muffler mod yourself and see if that's enough for you.


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## Shrug (Aug 17, 2010)

Thanks, I sent Tree Sling'r a PM. Also, I would be very interested in learning how to do this kind of work myself. I wonder what may be the best way to go about becoming good at this type of modding. Would just doing some basic research on here and then practicing on saws be about the best way to go do you think? I am sure that learning from someone with experience would be the best way when it comes right down to it, however I do not have the luxury of that available to me. What would be the next best plan of attack?


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 17, 2010)

Doing the actual work is not a difficult thing.

As to what to do, plenty here can guide you along the way. Plenty of port jobs have been successfully done like this.

First up you need a rotary tool and bits/burs etc and make yourself a degree wheel.

Your biggest tool is that search function though.


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## pops21 (Aug 17, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Doing the actual work is not a difficult thing.
> 
> As to what to do, plenty here can guide you along the way. Plenty of port jobs have been successfully done like this.
> 
> ...



I thought woods porting was just widening up the exhaust and intake?


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## nmurph (Aug 17, 2010)

there are degrees of woods porting and anytime you adjust squish, part of most woods ports, you change the timing. sometimes not enough to matter, sometimes it does.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 17, 2010)

pops21 said:


> I thought woods porting was just widening up the exhaust and intake?



There has been a thread on this before.

You can do what ever you like but basically if it's completely usable as a woods saw.

If you are going to go to the trouble to remove the barrel and grind, you might as well degree it for such a simple procedure and get your timing right.

Sure you can do just widening, but for those that take the effort to go that little further, can be rewarded.


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## mdavlee (Aug 17, 2010)

I just widen the intake and exhaust, open up the transfers a little and widen the upper part towards the intake, then do a mufler mod. I've never degreed a saw yet. I probably won't unless I'm trying for a racesaw or cookie cutter.


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## pops21 (Aug 17, 2010)

How in the heck do you get tools up in the transfers. The intake and exhaust are easy but I can't see a good way to reach the upper transfers.


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## mdavlee (Aug 17, 2010)

I use a little stone that's 3/32" thick and about 3/4" across on a dremel flexshaft. You can use a little cutoff wheel but they will dig in a little easier if you're not real light handed. If you want I'll take pictures for you. A 288 cylinder has 2 port transfers instead of four like the later huskys right?


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## pops21 (Aug 17, 2010)

Yep 2 port transfers. I would love to see some posted 288 pics. I started mine last night. I'll post some pics in my 288 thread tonight of the progress.


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## mdavlee (Aug 17, 2010)

I don't have a 288 cylinder but I do have a 390 cylinder setting here. I can take some pictures of the tooling for you. I split the cases on the extra 390 bottom end I've got last night. Cleaned it up today in some purple power and then dawn. It got most of the grime off it. I've still not decided if I'll rebuild it or just keep the extra parts for the other one.


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## pops21 (Aug 17, 2010)

I know exactly what your talking about with the cutting wheel. I never thought of that. I know I can reach the lower transfer. I've just been scratching my head about the upper part. Thanks for the tip.


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## mdavlee (Aug 17, 2010)

On the 4 port transfers I like the dremel bit that looks like a drill bit almost. It works real good to get all the way down into the transfers where it turns into the cylinder.


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## nate cutter (Aug 17, 2010)

Being your only saw I would by a cheapo garage sale saw. Tune and time it then port and open up the exhaust. Then re-time the saw using same wood same chain. good luck


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## pops21 (Aug 17, 2010)

mdavlee said:


> On the 4 port transfers I like the dremel bit that looks like a drill bit almost. It works real good to get all the way down into the transfers where it turns into the cylinder.



Thats actually the bit I was using last night to widen the ex. and in.


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## mdavlee (Aug 17, 2010)

I've been using 1/4" carbide cutters in dewalt end grinder for most of the widening.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 17, 2010)

mdavlee said:


> I just widen the intake and exhaust, open up the transfers a little and widen the upper part towards the intake, then do a mufler mod. I've never degreed a saw yet. I probably won't unless I'm trying for a racesaw or cookie cutter.



Using a degree wheel in a woods ported saw is no less a tool than with a racesaw.

You not having used a degree wheel doesn't mean it's not worth the little effort. If you haven't used one, how would you know of it's benefits?



pops21 said:


> How in the heck do you get tools up in the transfers. The intake and exhaust are easy but I can't see a good way to reach the upper transfers.



Don't grind up in the transfers. It's not only not necessary but you could hurt flow if you haven't had considerable experience. Just match your lower transfers to the bottom end. Don't worry about your uppers at this stage.

Do yourself a favor and search and read on the degreeing. If you decide to do this we can help along the way. If you decide not go this route, leave it till next time.


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## pops21 (Aug 17, 2010)

On my 288 the transfers start up in the cylinder. :monkey:


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 17, 2010)

pops21 said:


> On my 288 the transfers start up in the cylinder. :monkey:



Yep, different setup.

With the 390 go wide at the exhaust and don't change the duration. The inlet can do with some increased duration to better match your now better breathing exhaust plus a little widening. With your lowers use your base gasket as a template. Place it on your bottom end and you can see that it's a pretty good fit. Now place it on the cyl base and notice the mismatch. This is what you need to blend in so it matches the bottom end. Don't take it too far up into the transfers. You don't want to hurt velocity or flow. With the base gasket removed and a muffler mod you will be pleasantly surprised.


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## mdavlee (Aug 17, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Using a degree wheel in a woods ported saw is no less a tool than with a racesaw.
> 
> You not having used a degree wheel doesn't mean it's not worth the little effort. If you haven't used one, how would you know of it's benefits?



I'm not saying it won't help. I'm not trying to get every bit out of a woods port either. If someone would show me in a video comparison woods port and then change timing after that and it gained 5% or more I might do it. I'm happy with 15-30% without changing timing.

Here's the tools I've been using lately.


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## troutfisher (Aug 17, 2010)

Shrug said:


> Hey guys, I am new to this site. Anyway, I recently bought a Husqvarna 390XP and I am very interested in getting it woods ported. Until I discovered this site I did not even know that such a thing existed, but now knowing that it does, I really wanna get some work done to my saw.



I would contact someone who knows how to build a competitive race saw. Building a saw that will run on pump gas all day is a piece of cake for a real builder, and it will make power.


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## pops21 (Aug 17, 2010)

What about on my 288? Only time I will ever own a 390 will be in my dreams.


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## mdavlee (Aug 17, 2010)

A 288 can be a real runner from what some have told me. I've never had the pleasure to run one. I think if you get yours done by next tuesday or wednesday and make it to hillbilly's I might get to. You'll be able to run a 390 too.


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## dk27 (Aug 17, 2010)

Al
What was that thread of Yours,when you did the 371 BB w/pics? 
That was very good on the lowwer transfers and matching the case.


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## parrisw (Aug 17, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Using a degree wheel in a woods ported saw is no less a tool than with a racesaw.
> 
> You not having used a degree wheel doesn't mean it's not worth the little effort. If you haven't used one, how would you know of it's benefits?
> 
> ...



I agree with Al here. Degree a saw isn't that hard with a little practice of reading the wheel and getting repeatable results.



mdavlee said:


> I'm not saying it won't help. I'm not trying to get every bit out of a woods port either. If someone would show me in a video comparison woods port and then change timing after that and it gained 5% or more I might do it. I'm happy with 15-30% without changing timing.



I did a 371 basic job once, just widen and take out gasket, then I got the saw back a year later, then I went in for more after I learned some more, degreed the saw, made the port shapes better, and was really surprised that it gained a whole lot more then from the first time.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 17, 2010)

dk27 said:


> Al
> What was that thread of Yours,when you did the 371 BB w/pics?
> That was very good on the lowwer transfers and matching the case.








This is a 372bb barrel but the 390 is similar.

Yes the 288 is a good candidate for some work.


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## mdavlee (Aug 17, 2010)

If I decide to put the other 390 together I might degree it and see what happens.


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## parrisw (Aug 17, 2010)

Here is a poor comparison, but its something. In these vids you can hear the difference, well, I can at least.

First vid is of the first port job, just widen and no gasket, no spark screen. This wood is soft pine.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xI1A7qG1FHE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xI1A7qG1FHE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

second vid, better port shapes, better timing numbers and worked over the upper transfers and lower transfer really well. Also machined cylinder and pop-up piston.

This wood is also much much harder. This one holds is rpm much better.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fqVqk8GLuDY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fqVqk8GLuDY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 17, 2010)

The 365BB

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/C2gqY5hZUGY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/C2gqY5hZUGY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

371BB

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TYHuEmZWxo4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TYHuEmZWxo4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


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## Mastermind (Aug 17, 2010)

I have to agree with the use of the degree wheel. I've found that some saws have way too little intake timing. Increasing intake duration on these really bought them to life. On others the exhaust and intake duration are nearly the same so I spend more time on port shape and width. I also have found big gains in the upper transfers. I like to try different things so I'm always looking for inexpensive saws to go under the knife.


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## pwoller (Aug 17, 2010)

Send that saw to D and D in Southern Indiana, tell them to soup it up. I had them do my 390xp and it runs like a raped ape.


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## Shrug (Aug 17, 2010)

Wow guys, thanks for all the info so far. It is a lot to take in. I am super pumped to get my 390 all beefed up and running to it's potential. I mean it is a great saw now, so I can only imagine how good it will be once I get it souped up. 

Does D and D in Southern Indiana have a website. If not could you give me their contact info. I would like to at least look into what they have to offer before I make a decision of which way I am going with my 390.


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## pops21 (Aug 18, 2010)

May someone will chime in on pricing. I've never heard how much a port job is.


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## pwoller (Aug 18, 2010)

D & D Enterprises
4361 W Hill Farm Road
Salem, IN 47167-8587

No website but thats why they are porting saws for 90 bucks.


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## parrisw (Aug 18, 2010)

pwoller said:


> D & D Enterprises
> 4361 W Hill Farm Road
> Salem, IN 47167-8587
> 
> No website but thats why they are porting saws for 90 bucks.



90 bucks????????????? something aint right there? How much can they possibly do for 90 bucks.


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## pwoller (Aug 18, 2010)

parrisw said:


> 90 bucks????????????? something aint right there? How much can they possibly do for 90 bucks.



They break down your saw and go through it completly. Port it and advance the timing. 120 max depending upon what you want done.


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## pops21 (Aug 18, 2010)

That sounds too good to be true. I was thinking more like $200 and more.


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## tdi-rick (Aug 18, 2010)

pwoller said:


> D & D Enterprises
> 4361 W Hill Farm Road
> Salem, IN 47167-8587
> 
> No website but thats why they are porting saws for 90 bucks.





parrisw said:


> 90 bucks????????????? something aint right there? How much can they possibly do for 90 bucks.



I bethca ya gets what ya pays for :monkey:


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 18, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Send that saw to D and D in Southern Indiana, tell them to soup it up. I had them do my 390xp and it runs like a raped ape.



Mate no dis, but what would $90 buy you over there, an hour and a half in labour?

Not much can be achieved in $90 worth of time.


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## mdavlee (Aug 18, 2010)

If you don't degree in a saw, and just pull it apart you can get a lot done in a hour or two. I probably don't have much over 2 hours in the porting and muffler mod on the 576. which it's 2 port transfers and the intake and exhaust can't be widened much at all. It takes about as long for the cylinder and muffler to dry out after I wash them out than it does for me to port the cylinder. I know of a shop that will port saws for $200.


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## Shrug (Aug 18, 2010)

I ordered a 36" Oregon power match bar for my 390 last night as well as a set of over-sized felling dogs. As soon as I get some more money saved up I am going to be getting the soup-up job taken care of. 

Thanks for the info on D and D, but I am along the same lines of thinking as the other guys. I would be very apprehensive sending away my only saw to be beefed up and only having to pay $90, sounds to good to be true. I am not saying that they don't do good work or anything like that, I am just way to paranoid to risk it.


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## blsnelling (Aug 18, 2010)

I can guarantee you that you're not getting a full woods port for $90. At least not one with any careful attention paid to it. Most modders charge in the ball park of $250 for a port job.


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## nmurph (Aug 18, 2010)

Brad, have you ever used one of the right-angle attachments for the dremels? i think i may pick one up at a lunch and try it on the upper tranfers. i can use a cut-off wheel on the foredom, but you are limited on how much you can do with them. i have looked at the right-angle handpeices for the foredom, but besides the price, there are a limited number of bits available for them since they use a special type.


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## nmurph (Aug 18, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I can guarantee you that you're not getting a full woods port for $90. At least not one with any careful attention paid to it. Most modders charge in the ball park of $250 for a port job.



they probably hog out the I/E and call it a port job: no transfer work, case matching, squish setting, or timing check and adjustment.


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## Mastermind (Aug 18, 2010)

I consider my work to be inexpensive and I wouldn't do a woods port for less than 150 bucks.


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## blsnelling (Aug 18, 2010)

nmurph said:


> Brad, have you ever used one of the right-angle attachments for the dremels? i think i may pick one up at a lunch and try it on the upper tranfers. i can use a cut-off wheel on the foredom, but you are limited on how much you can do with them. i have looked at the right-angle handpeices for the foredom, but besides the price, there are a limited number of bits available for them since they use a special type.



I have not. Let me know how that goes.


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## blsnelling (Aug 18, 2010)

nmurph said:


> they probably hog out the I/E and call it a port job: no transfer work, case matching, squish setting, or timing check and adjustment.



It couldn't be very careful work at that either.


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## jockeydeuce (Aug 18, 2010)

nmurph said:


> they probably hog out the I/E and call it a port job: no transfer work, case matching, squish setting, or timing check and adjustment.



:agree2:

I'm no pro yet, but after the ones I've done now, $250 would be the minimum I'd charge someone to do a proper woods port.......Some would disagree, but my time is worth money (as everyones is). It would be impossible or $90 to get you much of anything done.


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## pwoller (Aug 18, 2010)

nmurph said:


> they probably hog out the I/E and call it a port job: no transfer work, case matching, squish setting, or timing check and adjustment.



Last time I had them port a saw they spent 3 hours on it and my bill was 120 bucks. I know they did the intake and exaust, advanced timing, muff mod and tested adjusted the carb. I cant promise that they did anything to the transfers. 

I can bring it to the next gtg if you want to tear it apart and investigate. I thought the bill was going to be over 200 for the work they did but it was 120.


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## pwoller (Aug 18, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> It couldn't be very careful work at that either.



Pretty big assumption dont you think. 

I just wanted to give the guy another option and since I had it done to 2 saws and both of them run great what differance does it make that they charge less then your average port job. I dont know how you can take price alone and judge their work.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 18, 2010)

nmurph said:


> Brad, have you ever used one of the right-angle attachments for the dremels? i think i may pick one up at a lunch and try it on the upper tranfers. i can use a cut-off wheel on the foredom, but you are limited on how much you can do with them. i have looked at the right-angle handpeices for the foredom, but besides the price, there are a limited number of bits available for them since they use a special type.



The Dremel right angle is too fat for port work. You won't get one in there with a bit fitted

Your right though, your restricted if you need to raise the uppers. Then you need to be able to work your way back in, keeping your roof square to the bore.

I use a dentist's contra angle for this work.

Wish I could port a cyl in 1 1/2. Takes me 3-4 hours!


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## nmurph (Aug 18, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> The Dremel right angle is too fat for port work. You won't get one in there with a bit fitted
> 
> Your right though, your restricted if you need to raise the uppers. Then you need to be able to work your way back in, keeping your roof square to the bore.
> 
> ...



jeezzz, now you tell me it's too big. i just got back to work from buying one!!!!!

i guess if your going to do a port job for $90 you better be able to get in and get out in a hurry. it all about volume!!!

this is what i like for the uppers. it cuts a wider swath and i don't have the fine grooves to smooth out like i do with a cut-off wheel.

http://www.dremel.com/en-us/AttachmentsAndAccessories/Pages/AttachmentsDetail.aspx?pid=199


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 18, 2010)

nmurph said:


> jeezzz, now you tell me it's too big. i just got back to work from buying one!!!!!
> 
> i guess if your going to do a port job for $90 you better be able to get in and get out in a hurry. it all about volume!!!
> 
> ...



Sorry mate, I had only just spotted your post.

I looked into them back a bit and the Dremel right angle was something like 50mm or there about's and that's without a bit fitted.


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## Terry Syd (Aug 18, 2010)

If you don't have the tools/expertise to raise the transfers, you can always try bumping the primary compression a bit and get the stock transfers to flow a bit more at the higher revs.

From some of the butcher jobs I've seen on transfer ports, that would be a better option to try in many cases - and the mod can be reversed, unlike a carved up jug.


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Pretty big assumption dont you think.
> 
> I just wanted to give the guy another option and since I had it done to 2 saws and both of them run great what differance does it make that they charge less then your average port job. I dont know how you can take price alone and judge their work.



Sorry but I agree with Brad here, not trying to chit all over you, but there can be much detail work at $90, that's not even an hour's labour where I work. I spend a long time on a saw making as good as I can, paying attention to port shapes, port finish, port timing, machine work, ect, then going through the rest of the saw to make sure its all right and working 100%, then come the testing and tuning. I probably spend about a week of evenings alone on the port work. The average job is $250, I wouldn't do what I do for $250, just not worth the time investment.


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## pwoller (Aug 19, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Sorry but I agree with Brad here, not trying to chit all over you, but there can be much detail work at $90, that's not even an hour's labour where I work. I spend a long time on a saw making as good as I can, paying attention to port shapes, port finish, port timing, machine work, ect, then going through the rest of the saw to make sure its all right and working 100%, then come the testing and tuning. I probably spend about a week of evenings alone on the port work. The average job is $250, I wouldn't do what I do for $250, just not worth the time investment.



You guys are rediculous. This is a 2nd generation saw shop that does good work. Maybe you internet porters are charging too much, you ever consider that? Go ahead and chit on your self after I cut circles around your ported saw. This will be the last time I try and help anyone out when it comes to porting.


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

pwoller said:


> You guys are rediculous. This is a 2nd generation saw shop that does good work. Maybe you internet porters are charging too much, you ever consider that? Go ahead and chit on your self after I cut circles around your ported saw.



Sorry man, just trying to be realistic.

ha ha, internet porters eh? I don't do any port work for anybody but myself. Why don't you post some pictures of the work to shut us up? The whole point is, you just cant get much of anything these days for $90, except maybe a cheap whore, and I think you know what that will get ya.


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## pwoller (Aug 19, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Sorry man, just trying to be realistic.
> 
> ha ha, internet porters eh? I don't do any port work for anybody but myself. Why don't you post some pictures of the work to shut us up? The whole point is, you just cant get much of anything these days for $90, except maybe a cheap whore, and I think you know what that will get ya.



Are you serious? Pull your head out of your Arse, I offered to let anyone look it over at a gtg. I'm not going to break down my saw to prove chit. If you think you cant get good work done for 30 bucks an hour then your stupid.


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Are you serious? Pull your head out of your Arse, I offered to let anyone look it over at a gtg. I'm not going to break down my saw to prove chit. If you think you cant get good work done for 30 bucks an hour then your stupid.



ha ha, i guess I'm stupid then. WTF do I know.


How the hell can a shop make any money charging out $30 per hour


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## pwoller (Aug 19, 2010)

parrisw said:


> ha ha, i guess I'm stupid then. WTF do I know.
> 
> 
> How the hell can a shop make any money charging out $30 per hour



You said it. 

Not my problem how they make money. 

This is the last time I'm saying it. Porting aint rocket science. Maybe look for a shop thats been around for 40 years, I'm sure that they do good work or they'd been shut down. If you think I got ripped off when I paid 120 bucks for a woods port then come take a look. When I was looking for someone to port I thought that the internet porters at 300 bucks was rediculous.


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## Mastermind (Aug 19, 2010)

parrisw said:


> ha ha, i guess I'm stupid then. WTF do I know.
> 
> 
> How the hell can a shop make any money charging out $30 per hour



I work in a small shop at my house, I have no employees, and not much in the way of overhead. I still try to make enough to pay my light bill. If I did a saw for 150.00 (and I've done several for that price) it takes me at least 8 hrs. Like Parrisw said, I do more than just pull the jug and start cutting. Hell, I even clean the saw because I hate working on nasty saws. I also can't see a shop charging such a small amount for port work. Sometimes after the saw is ported the carb will not compensate without pulling the limiting caps, adjusting the carb and replacing them, that takes time, testing takes time. Adding an extra port to the muffler and making it look good takes time as well. 

I guess I'll add myself to the dumbass list too!


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 19, 2010)

maybe it's a backwoods, mom and pop kinda place and the only way to drum up business is to do it cheap? i know of a dirt bike shop around here that is very cheap but still does good work. i'm just sayin that it is possible, and the guy did offer to let us check out his saw at a gtg. usually cheap= crap i agree, but it doesn't mean it's ALWAYS crap, right?


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## Mastermind (Aug 19, 2010)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> maybe it's a backwoods, mom and pop kinda place and the only way to drum up business is to do it cheap? i know of a dirt bike shop around here that is very cheap but still does good work. i'm just sayin that it is possible, and the guy did offer to let us check out his saw at a gtg. usually cheap= crap i agree, but it doesn't mean it's ALWAYS crap, right?



I ain't saying it ain't true. I'm saying a high level of detail would be hard to achieve if a person did it in only three hours.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 19, 2010)

i'm not arguing that or anything else for that matter. i don't know crap about porting, YET. i have the highest respect for some of you guys on here, you included, i just meant it's possible is all.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 19, 2010)

oh now i get it, he said they worked on it for 3 hours and you guys put significantly more time into it. gotcha!


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

For the record, I never said he didn't get a port job for $90. I said you can't get much for that. And that's the truth!!


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 19, 2010)

yeah, yeah you probably made him cry ya big meanie!

for the record, if i was him, i would not have said my $90 port job saw would cut circles around you guys!!!


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## Banshee (Aug 19, 2010)

I haven't posted in awhile. But I had to step in here. I'm the one who recommended the shop in question to Pwoller.
I've recommended the shop to several people on here and else where. I have yet to see a disppointed person I've sent there. 

They are a very good shop and I'd take all my stuff there. Alot of you guys on here have ran my saws and everyone agrees it's well worth the money I spent to have them ported. 

Yeah there's alot faster saws here. But my saws are not built to win races they are built to give you gains over stock. They will honor the warrenty out of they own pocket for these saws if you buy it there. 

They don't just do mods. I had an 066 I brought from a Stihl dealer in town. He told me He didn't have time to work on it and all he could tell from the little time he did worked on it that it may have an air leak and would run over 300 dollars to fix, so the orginal owner just traded it in. 

I brought the saw from the Stihl dealer for 100 dollars and brought it to D and D. D and D found a blow cylinder gasket. They replaced it, put new rings on it (they said it didn't need it but since they already had it apart and had after market rings for 6 bucks each. I figure what the heck), They cleaned the cylinder, put a new diaphiam in the carb, replaced the clutch springs, put a new rope and handle on it for me. They also muffler modded and advanced the time for me. They charged me 75 dollars. 

The saw still runs great to this day. They do all the work right in front of you as you wait. So there's no question they are doing what they are charging you for. 

There's also a another saw shop down the road from them that do the same work for 150 dollars. They are also a very good saw shop. In fact one of the members here happens to work at this shop and his saws will run with the best of them. 

Around here the shops that do the work just don't charge alot for it, but they more than make up for it with volume. Not just in mod work, but in sales volume.


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## pwoller (Aug 19, 2010)

parrisw said:


> For the record, I never said he didn't get a port job for $90. I said you can't get much for that. And that's the truth!!



I dont know how to explain this to you guys. They spent at least 3 hours going through my saw. Replacing this and that. Then porting, muff modding and advancing the timing. This is a saw shop has been around longer then I've been alive. I hardly think they do subpar work and are still around. Maybe since they know how to mod husky saws and have been doing it so long it doesnt take them as long as the internet porters then they can do it faster. Again if you want to see their work then I'll bring my saw to a gtg and you can investigate. 

The saws they have ported for me run great. I'm just trying to give the original poster an option that is more reasonable then some of the guys on here. I'm not saying they do better work but they do great work for way less.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 19, 2010)

Sure this crowd can do quality work and probably have low rates.

I did a friends 394 recently and all I did was opened the exhaust, left out the base gasket and made a square hole in the muffler for for the future fitment of a shroud. Now this can be done for say a hundred odd bucks.

He is so happy he reckons it is now a different saw and flies through the wood.

Now if this is in a business scenario, there is nothing wrong with this, but it has to be realized this is not what you would be considered to the level of a $250 -$300 port job where exhaust, inlet, upper and lower transfers and durations are done.

Pwoller and Banshee I think people aren't knocking this D & D, just saying that you don't get the "works" for the money.


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## pwoller (Aug 19, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Sure this crowd can do quality work and probably have low rates.
> 
> I did a friends 394 recently and all I did was opened the exhaust, left out the base gasket and made a square hole in the muffler for for the future fitment of a shroud. Now this can be done for say a hundred odd bucks.
> 
> ...



I could care less if they use D and D. But its an option.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 19, 2010)

pwoller said:


> I could care less if they use D and D. But its an option.



I don't think you get what we are trying to say to you.

It's not about whether you care less or not!


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 19, 2010)

yeah whats being said to you is some of these guys spend 8 to 12+ hours on a proper port job. so we THINK your not getting the "full monty" so to speak. is that about right AUSSIE1?


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## Banshee (Aug 19, 2010)

I just want to add, before I go to bed. That this shop has been around for 40 some years. They don't advertist. They only use word of mouth. 
If you go there on a rainy day, when all the loggers aren't cutting, it's nothing to have to wait for hours to get your saws worked on. And that is with 4 guys working on saws.
They don't like you to leave your saws, if you do it will be months if not a year before you see it again. They only work on saws that are left in their spare time. 
So I never go there unless I have a half day or more to spare.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 19, 2010)

it sounds like a really cool shop, honest it does. i'd love to check it out if it weren't so far away. but you know as with most things if it's real cheap there is usually a reason. i'm not saying they don't do good work, i'm saying the price makes me leary.


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## Banshee (Aug 19, 2010)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> yeah whats being said to you is some of these guys spend 8 to 12+ hours on a proper port job. so we THINK your not getting the "full monty" so to speak. is that about right AUSSIE1?



I've seen guys spend months on porting. It really depends on what you want with your saw. 
Are you wanting to cut cookies in record time and be on the edge of over heating at the end of the cut or are you wanting a work saw with more power than stock that can cut all day. 

It's really not a fair comparison. I've ran my saws against some of the guys on here and had my azz handed to me. But some of their saws were on the edge of a full melt down. Where as mind could keep on cutting it need be.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 19, 2010)

i see what your sayin and it makes sense. maybe one of you guys could make it to a GTG and show off a D&D saw. then we would know what you know, ya know?


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## timberwolf (Aug 19, 2010)

> I've seen guys spend months on porting. It really depends on what you want with your saw.
> Are you wanting to cut cookies in record time and be on the edge of over heating at the end of the cut or are you wanting a work saw with more power than stock that can cut all day.



True but I think there is a catch.

A tail gate port job no doubt can give some gains over a stock saw. But A good mild port job can accomplish the same thing with fewer down side effects. 

Example, one saw ported by opening the muffler, raising the exhaust 1.5mm and advancing the timing 3 degrees to make up for the lost compression. Quite realistic to expect it might cut an 8x8 30% quicker. The second saw has no significant changes to port timing, exhaust is opened and all gains are made by improving port shapes and flows along with tightening the squish a smidge. Again cutting an 8x8 30% faster would be a reasonable expectation. The difference though will be seen in how the saws pulls with a long bar, how it starts on a cold morning or hot afternoon, how it idles, throttle response, how long it lasts and how much fuel it burns for work done. Without doubt the saw ported to improve flow will be the overall winner, no doubt it will take more time and effort to port a saw like that.

IMHO watch claims of advancing the timing, needing to mess with ignition timing to get a ported work saw to run well is a red flag.


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## Shrug (Aug 19, 2010)

WOW, we have quite the little discussion going on now don't we. With all that has been said it is hard for a new guy like myself to keep it all straight and actually try to absorb the information. 

I started this post with the hopes of gaining the input necessary to learn what needed to be done to my 390 to turn it into one bad mother of a work saw. I want to get the most out of it that I can while still keeping it reliable and able to pull the 36" bar I will be running on it and cut wood all day long. Obviously being new to this sort of thing I don't plan on doing this kind of job myself to my only saw, however I have got many suggestions as to where I could get the work done and I greatly appreciate each one of them. You can never have to many options in my opinion. 

Needless to say, you guys have been very helpful so far and I really appreciate all the input you guys have offered up. This is a fantastic internet board in my opinion and everyone seems much more willing to lend a helping hand than on many other internet communities that I have experienced in the past. 

Now let the discussion continue, we got a good one going here!


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## rguim007 (Aug 19, 2010)

First I would recommend that before you knock this place, at least go and take a look at the work they do. As stated before this place has been around for more than 40 years. Originally started by their father, who fixed/serviced saws for the local logging industry. The business currently serves more than 5 states. Loggers drive up from Kentucky to get their stuff fixed. Why? Because it is a full service shop that can fix any saw, port any saw while you wait. They charge a reasonable price, because their clientel are reasonable hardworking people. When logging is what puts food on your table, and your saw is the tool that gets it there, you go to someone you can trust. The majority of the clientel aren't weekend warrior cookie cutters. If you are questioning the quality of the work they do, I'd ask one of the loggers that have had their saw running solid since the day they bought it, and even better after it was modded. They are running work saws, not gtg who can cut the most and quickest cookie saws!!
Lastly, as stated before.....they do enough volume to make up for the prices they charge. I've been there on a saturday morning when the gravel parking lot was full and 15 people were inside dropping off weedeaters, saws, back pack blowers, generators, you name it. Their financials can be found online if you type in their name. They do around 1.2 million dollars a year. Pretty damn good for a little shop in the woods.


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## Banshee (Aug 19, 2010)

1.2 isn't bad when you consider they have a very low over head. They a have 1 full time and 1 part time employee. The 3 brothers all are part owners. They own the building and about 200 plus acres around it. 

They also sell tractors and heavy used logging equipment. They also do alot of logging. 

These guys grew up around chainsaws. There's been times I've been in there and watched as one of them was teaching his son why this part does what it does. 
I'm sure their sons will take over much like they did when their father retired. 

Every saw I've had done by them has more power, runs better and is super relieble. 

I've brought saws from them that were modded when new ran for a 1 or 2 years in the logging business and then traded in and brought by me and these saws still run great for me. That to me says a lot about their saws.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 19, 2010)

rguim007 said:


> First I would recommend that before you knock this place, at least go and take a look at the work they do. As stated before this place has been around for more than 40 years. Originally started by their father, who fixed/serviced saws for the local logging industry. The business currently serves more than 5 states. Loggers drive up from Kentucky to get their stuff fixed. Why? Because it is a full service shop that can fix any saw, port any saw while you wait. They charge a reasonable price, because their clientel are reasonable hardworking people. When logging is what puts food on your table, and your saw is the tool that gets it there, you go to someone you can trust. The majority of the clientel aren't weekend warrior cookie cutters. If you are questioning the quality of the work they do, I'd ask one of the loggers that have had their saw running solid since the day they bought it, and even better after it was modded. They are running work saws, not gtg who can cut the most and quickest cookie saws!!
> Lastly, as stated before.....they do enough volume to make up for the prices they charge. I've been there on a saturday morning when the gravel parking lot was full and 15 people were inside dropping off weedeaters, saws, back pack blowers, generators, you name it. Their financials can be found online if you type in their name. They do around 1.2 million dollars a year. Pretty damn good for a little shop in the woods.



It doesn't matter what we say, some of you guy's aren't getting it.

It's not questioning their quality of work, but what can be achieved in a certain amount of time or for a particular dollar!

"The majority of the clientele aren't weekend warrior cookie cutters" 

So where does this sentence fit in, lol. Majority of the GTG saws are "working" saws BTW. There are alot of quick firewood saws out there cutting "cookies". But going by your post, you just haven't worked that out yet!

Ok we haven't seen the work provided by this company but altering the ignition timing does bring up a question mark.


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## pwoller (Aug 19, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> It doesn't matter what we say, some of you guy's aren't getting it.
> 
> It's not questioning their quality of work, but what can be achieved in a certain amount of time or for a particular dollar!
> 
> ...



Maybe they can get more done in the time then most because they aren't checking the forums every 15 minutes...


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 19, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Maybe they can get more done in the time then most because they aren't checking the forums every 15 minutes...



You fit their perfect customer requirements!


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## rguim007 (Aug 19, 2010)

Vegemite1,

I've got it worked out, no problem. Is a "working saw" in your mind, one that runs and is owned by a IT support specialist, or computer programmer? Sounds like it. I was describing a saw that is run for 8 hours a day felling trees 365 days a year. Cutting up firewood would require a "working saw", but how can you have time to do that and work on the computer 8 hours a day? 
As far as the timing goes, that would require another post for explaination and pictures. Do a search...as everyone likes to say.

I'm done, goin to work. I just got on this thread because buddy told me that they were bashing D + D. This forum arguing is worthless......I'm outta here....


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## Shrug (Aug 19, 2010)

The more I read about all the mods that can be done, I am thinking that less might be more in my case. For example, I am now thinking that all I may require is a simple muffler mod followed by the proper carb adjustment. This would in fact give my saw more power and help it run more efficiently and cooler would it not? Anyway, all the other expensive tweaking might not be necessary is what I am thinking. Plus, I am not crazy about shipping my saw across the freaking country and then having it shipped all the way back. If there was a local shop in my area that did this kind of work I would not even hesitate. But I don't really wanna trust UPS or Fed Ex, etc, etc, etc with the care of such an expensive saw when I am not exactly the richest guy in the world. Plus, the money I save on just doing the simple muffler mod and carb adjustment I figure I can put it towards another BIGGER saw and then do the same thing to it. Am I making sense here guys?


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 19, 2010)

rguim007 said:


> Vegemite1,
> 
> I've got it worked out, no problem. Is a "working saw" in your mind, one that runs and is owned by a IT support specialist, or computer programmer? Sounds like it. I was describing a saw that is run for 8 hours a day felling trees 365 days a year. Cutting up firewood would require a "working saw", but how can you have time to do that and work on the computer 8 hours a day?
> As far as the timing goes, that would require another post for explaination and pictures. Do a search...as everyone likes to say.
> ...



The problem is you think people are bashing D & D because you just don't get it. They do little work, charge little money your happy. Nothing wrong with that. What people are saying is you are not getting the full deal otherwise you would be charged more.

Ok, list everything performed in what they call a woods port and what they charge over how much time and at what hourly rate.

BTW, no point lowering yourself with the attempt at name calling as it doesn't work!


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## Shrug (Aug 19, 2010)

Guys, I think this is becoming a little counter productive! There is no sense in arguing as it will not solve anything. I can see both sides in this. On one hand there are several guys defending a old time honored shop that has a good reputation for providing good service and good quality work to hard working loggers. So what if they do not charge a lot of money for the work they do. Does that make it bad quality work, certainly not. At least not without any kind of proof saying otherwise, and judging from the amount of people that have jumped to the defense of this particular shop, they must be doing something right. 

Now with that being said. Does all of that mean that they do as extensive of a job modifying saws as other individuals and shops do? Do they spend the same amount of hours? Seems to me that the answer is NO, because the jobs being described that are taking hour upon hour upon hour seem to entail a more complicated job with MORE total work being done.

Does price decide the quality of the job being done? Not always. 

Are people going to be cautious of a low advertised price for work that they typically think should cost more? Usually Yes.

LESS WORK DONE = LESS MONEY CHARGED

MORE WORK DONE = MORE MONEY CHARGED

That is a constant no matter who you are dealing with. 

This D + D shop sounds like a really cool place. In fact the guys defending it have made a really good case for it and have made me very curious as to the work they do. I am not the richest guy in the world and if they in fact do turn out GOOD QUALITY work I would be very tempted to have a saw done there and see how it turned out. 

As I have said, I need a ROCK SOLID work saw. So if they can provide a gain in performance while maintaining or improving the working life of my saw then that would be fine with me. 

I am new here and I really want to learn all that I can. And I want to do my research well before I choose the shop that I will have the work on my saw done by. Will that shop be D + D maybe. Will it be another shop altogether, maybe. Will it be an individual from this board, maybe. But lets please stop arguing and just exchange knowledge so that we can get the topic of discussion back to a useful learning tool for inexperienced guys such as myself please. And who knows, even the experienced guys might pick up a thing or two that they did not know before.


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## mdavlee (Aug 19, 2010)

I would try a muffler mod first and see if that makes you happy. If that does then you won't have to ship your saw anywhere or anything like that.


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## timberwolf (Aug 19, 2010)

Yep a nice muffler mod often gives a saw a nice wake up and kept reasonable it will run smooth as stock but better.

Never seen a saw screwed up by too little "porting" but seen a good few fubared by too much "porting".

Only trouble with the muffler mod only plan is to know that as much as the saw gained by the muffler work alone can be had again by matching up some good port work.

Porting is a diminishing return, the second 10% is going to take more to achieve than the first 10%, the third 10% more yet and so on... The price to pay in fuel, usability, parts and lifespan will also be incrimentally higher the furth down the mod road you go.


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## Shrug (Aug 19, 2010)

Yeah, I see your point. Keeping that in mind I will not do anything more to my 390 than order a modded muffler for it and then tune the carb myself. I found an individual who makes modded mufflers for pretty much any saw you can imagine. I mean, I would do the muffler mod myself but I do not have a welder of any kind and on top of that I do not have any welding experience. And I would like the finished product to look like it was intended to be that way. Tuning the carb on the other hand will be a piece of cake. 

The money I save by not getting the other more expensive mods done to my 390 I am going to put towards a Stihl MS880.


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## mdavlee (Aug 19, 2010)

If you do a bolt on deflector from the 288xp you don't have to weld anything. It will cost you about $15 in parts. If you have a drill and dremel then it's a piece of cake. that picture is on a 390. Those are the 2 different deflectors that are made by husky. The larger one is around $13 and the smaller $9.


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## nmurph (Aug 19, 2010)

save your money from thieves selling MM on the internet. there is a MM that can be done for about $15 and requires no welding. i have done it on several saws and lots of members have as well. you need a deflector for a 281/288 and the firescreen. you can attach it with sheetmetal screws and it will stay. baileys or your husky dealer can hook you up.


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## nmurph (Aug 19, 2010)

good mike......i got interrupted and it took a minute to finish.......shrugs, you get the point.


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## gink595 (Aug 19, 2010)

nmurph said:


> save your money from thieves selling MM on the internet. there is a MM that can be done for about $15 and requires no welding. i have done it on several saws and lots of members have as well. you need a deflector for a 281/288 and the firescreen. you can attach it with sheetmetal screws and it will stay. baileys or your husky dealer can hook you up.



Please don't use sheetmetal screws, nothing screams Hack more than sheetmetal screws, Ask Maldeney


BTW Use quality rivets, they won't viberate out and they look like it was made that way, not a afterthought


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## gink595 (Aug 19, 2010)

Shrug said:


> The money I save by not getting the other more expensive mods done to my 390 I am going to put towards a Stihl MS880.



Save your money for something else, the 880 is a pig. I'd rather have a 3120.


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## nmurph (Aug 19, 2010)

gink595 said:


> Please don't use sheetmetal screws, nothing screams Hack more than sheetmetal screws, Ask Maldeney
> 
> 
> BTW Use quality rivets, they won't viberate out and they look like it was made that way, not a afterthought



sorry, but they work, don't back out and i can take them out in a few seconds to tweak the MM. i think i got the idea from brad.....so, scream at him while your at it!!!!!


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## mdavlee (Aug 19, 2010)

I used sheet metal screws on the first ones I did. I added a lock washer and locktite after one of them came off and no more problems. If you rivet it on you can't clean the screen if you run one.


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## nmurph (Aug 19, 2010)

yes, but it looks like a hack did it!!!!


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## blsnelling (Aug 19, 2010)

I've done a ton of muffler mods using the deflector with sheetmetal screws. I've yet to have a problem with them coming out. If they are, I'm not hearing it back from my customers.


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## gink595 (Aug 19, 2010)

nmurph said:


> yes, but it looks like a hack did it!!!!



It does, it really does


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## Tzed250 (Aug 19, 2010)

.


Here we go....


.


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## timberwolf (Aug 19, 2010)

> 880 is a pig. I'd rather have a 3120.



LOL yes 880 is a pig but the 3120 is just a pig covered in orange lipstick.

A properly ported 660 will eat up an 880 in anything but the largest wood and even paying top dolar for the port work a ported 660 will be less than the sticker shock of an 880. Same could be said for a ported 395 vs a stock 3120.


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## pops21 (Aug 19, 2010)

opcorn:


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## gink595 (Aug 19, 2010)

timberwolf said:


> LOL yes 880 is a pig but the 3120 is just a pig covered in orange lipstick.
> 
> A properly ported 660 will eat up an 880 in anything but the largest wood and even paying top dolar for the port work a ported 660 will be less than the sticker shock of an 880. Same could be said for a ported 395 vs a stock 3120.



I have both and I will say that is spot on, My 066 has a stock cylinder and it is much more pleasant to run, I think I perfer it for milling too over the 880, at this point I'm not really sure what to do with the 880.... Maybe Hotsaw it, at least it would get used


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## pops21 (Aug 19, 2010)

Ok so I'm stumped on how wide you can open the exhaust and intake. I've heard no more then 30% of the bore. So my 288 is 54mm in diameter. 

54mm x 3.14(PI) = 196.56mm diameter

196.56 x .30 (30% of bore) = 50.86mm

So I can't go no wider then the width of the piston skirt minus 2mm on each side or 50.86mm since its 30% of the bore. Which ever has the smallest length is the one I should go with?

Is this correct?


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## mdavlee (Aug 19, 2010)

70% of bore or around 36mm or whatever that converts to in inches. Or whatever the piston skirt will cover up. How wide is the piston skirt?


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## pops21 (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm heading home for supper so I will let ya know in 30 min. How did you come up with 36mm.:monkey: Math was my worst school subject.


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## mdavlee (Aug 19, 2010)

54x.7=37.8 36 was real closse. I did that in my head as thats 2/3 or 66.6%


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 19, 2010)

If you go wide and especially increase the inlet duration, bring the port floor up a bit at the sides. If you look at the skirt on those pistons at the bottom there is like little cutouts either side. If you go wide without bring the sides up a little, those cutouts will open before the centre lower portion of the skirt. If you set the inlet floor for a particular duration and that area either side opens early, you have effectively increased the duration beyond what you were aiming for.


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## pops21 (Aug 19, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> If you go wide and especially increase the inlet duration, bring the port floor up a bit at the sides. If you look at the skirt on those pistons at the bottom there is like little cutouts either side. If you go wide without bring the sides up a little, those cutouts will open before the centre lower portion of the skirt. If you set the inlet floor for a particular duration and that area either side opens early, you have effectively increased the duration beyond what you were aiming for.



So your saying keep the oval shape of the port. That if I put more of a square shape on the port that the sides of the piston will open before the bottom does? I'm trying to picture what your saying. Oh and I measured the piston skirt on both IN and EX. Intake was 38.34mm and EX was 38.22mm. On the bottom of the transfers the is a abrutp ledge from the cylinder wall into the transfer. Can I knock the ledge down and make it a smooth transition into the transfer?


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 19, 2010)

pops21 said:


> So your saying keep the oval shape of the port. That if I put more of a square shape on the port that the sides of the piston will open before the bottom does? I'm trying to picture what your saying. Oh and I measured the piston skirt on both IN and EX. Intake was 38.34mm and EX was 38.22mm. On the bottom of the transfers the is a abrutp ledge from the cylinder wall into the transfer. Can I knock the ledge down and make it a smooth transition into the transfer?



Sorry mate, what saw is this on?


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## pops21 (Aug 19, 2010)

288xp


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 19, 2010)

pops21 said:


> 288xp



Sorry I was thinking 385/390.

They have the full circle piston. Well yeah just go wide mate.


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## pops21 (Aug 19, 2010)

Both the piston that was in the 288 and the meteor that I just got brand new are not a full circle piston. They have cut-outs.:monkey: Maybe you were talking about the 385/390 having a full circle piston. What about the bottom of the transfer? Can I grind that off to make a smooth transfer. I know the top of the transfer has to do with timing but not sure about the bottom.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 19, 2010)

pops21 said:


> Both the piston that was in the 288 and the meteor that I just got brand new are not a full circle piston. They have cut-outs.:monkey: What about the bottom of the transfer? Can I grind that off to make a smooth transfer. I know the top of the transfer has to do with timing but not sure about the bottom.



Yeah right. I fitted a 288 kit to the 181 but can't remember the piston type.
I had a look a the 181 piston and it's a full circle. I just had a look at the kits on Bailey's site. 

Yeah you can open up the lower transfer taking that lip away also. The bottom doesn't have anything to do with timing.

A bit of reading for you.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=129152


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

Holy chit, I can't believe my one little comment started all of this!!!





rguim007 said:


> Vegemite1,
> 
> I've got it worked out, no problem. Is a "working saw" in your mind, one that runs and is owned by a IT support specialist, or computer programmer? Sounds like it. I was describing a saw that is run for 8 hours a day felling trees 365 days a year. Cutting up firewood would require a "working saw", but how can you have time to do that and work on the computer 8 hours a day?
> As far as the timing goes, that would require another post for explaination and pictures. Do a search...as everyone likes to say.
> ...



I never bashed Double D from the start and don't believe anybody else did.

All I did was say your not getting much for $90?? Is that so freakin hard to understand without getting your panties all wadded up???




Shrug said:


> The more I read about all the mods that can be done, I am thinking that less might be more in my case. For example, I am now thinking that all I may require is a simple muffler mod followed by the proper carb adjustment. This would in fact give my saw more power and help it run more efficiently and cooler would it not? Anyway, all the other expensive tweaking might not be necessary is what I am thinking. Plus, I am not crazy about shipping my saw across the freaking country and then having it shipped all the way back. If there was a local shop in my area that did this kind of work I would not even hesitate. But I don't really wanna trust UPS or Fed Ex, etc, etc, etc with the care of such an expensive saw when I am not exactly the richest guy in the world. Plus, the money I save on just doing the simple muffler mod and carb adjustment I figure I can put it towards another BIGGER saw and then do the same thing to it. Am I making sense here guys?



sounds like you don't need a modded saw at all. Most of the people here don't, they just do it for fun.


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## Shrug (Aug 19, 2010)

Hey guys, I stopped at a Stihl dealership today and started asking some questions. It was not long before I realized that with the little knowledge that I had before I joined this site, plus the new knowledge that I have picked up from you guys already, that I knew way more than the salesman that was trying to sell me a saw. It was pretty amusing actually, I was asking questions about after market parts and talking about porting and what not, and the dude looked super confused. It is the only Stihl dealership near my house, and I will be buying a saw there in the near future, but they don't seem to know much. I am gonna have to order my saw because they don't carry anything big. I think I am gonna tell them to just leave it the way it comes and not even bother assembling it, I am kinda afraid that they will screw it up, haha.


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## gink595 (Aug 19, 2010)

parrisw said:


> All I did was say your not getting much for $90?? Is that so freakin hard to understand without getting your panties all wadded up???




It's hard to say unless you can see what they do, I don't see how people pay 250+ for some of the port jobs they get. I'd like to know what a guy really gets for his 250+, plus shipping. If I sent a saw out and got it back and it yields 15-20% I'd feel like I was farked really hard. I won't buy on that just because these fella's in Southern Indiana charging 90.00 aren't giving the same thing some of the "pro's" on the net are doing, anyone can grind ports wider, and drill holes in the muffler, it takes someone with some knowledge to start changing timing and making them go.


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

gink595 said:


> It's hard to say unless you can see what they do, I don't see how people pay 250+ for some of the port jobs they get. I'd like to know what a guy really gets for his 250+, plus shipping. If I sent a saw out and got it back and it yields 15-20% I'd feel like I was farked really hard. I won't buy on that just because these fella's in Southern Indiana charging 90.00 aren't giving the same thing some of the "pro's" on the net are doing, anyone can grind ports wider, and drill holes in the muffler, it takes someone with some knowledge to start changing timing and making them go.



Yes very true. But I can't see them doing much for $90, they are trying to run a business, and if I'm not mistaken your in business to make MONEY! not give it away.

Yes its easy to grind a little bit and make the ports wider and punch a extra hole in the muffler.


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## gink595 (Aug 19, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Yes very true. But I can't see them doing much for $90, they are trying to run a business, and if I'm not mistaken your in business to make MONEY! not give it away.
> 
> Yes its easy to grind a little bit and make the ports wider and punch a extra hole in the muffler.



I don't know maybe the are making money doing it, I doubt it is a high volume shop. I'm sure there is something else they do unless it is a hobby shop. But lets break it down for fun, so say the average woods port take 3 hours to take apart grind the intake and exhaust and redrill the muffler larger put back together and retune. I think if a guy was ambitious like Brad it could be done faster. I know I can get a 066 cylinder off and one in about 15 minutes talking to the kids. S0 30.00/hr isn't a bad profit, so lets see what a guy that charges 250.00 for 3 hours work in netting 83.33 an hour, alot of these guys do this work from home so not much overhead. I think 90.00 is more in line for a woods port.


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

gink595 said:


> I don't know maybe the are making money doing it, I doubt it is a high volume shop. I'm sure there is something else they do unless it is a hobby shop. But lets break it down for fun, so say the average woods port take 3 hours to take apart grind the intake and exhaust and redrill the muffler larger put back together and retune. I think if a guy was ambitious like Brad it could be done faster. I know I can get a 066 cylinder off and one in about 15 minutes talking to the kids. S0 30.00/hr isn't a bad profit, so lets see what a guy that charges 250.00 for 3 hours work in netting 83.33 an hour, alot of these guys do this work from home so not much overhead. I think 90.00 is more in line for a woods port.



Maybe I guess. I'm just comparing to what I do, and I spend much more time. 

Ok then, say your running a Saw shop, who is doing the work? An employee? Let keep it as having a shop as this Double D shop does. You must pay the employee and hourly wage, unless he is working for free? What's and average wage to make at a saw shop, lets say its $15 per hour, and I wouldn't do it for that but that's me. So that leaves $15 per hour for the business, out of that $15 how much goes to overhead, after all it cost's money to run a shop weather you own the land and building or not, there is tools to buy, bills to pay. Say out of that $5 goes to overhead and bills, tools. That's $10 profit for 3hrs work. Pretty sad if you ask me.


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## gink595 (Aug 19, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Maybe I guess. I'm just comparing to what I do, and I spend much more time.
> 
> Ok then, say your running a Saw shop, who is doing the work? An employee? Let keep it as having a shop as this Double D shop does. You must pay the employee and hourly wage, unless he is working for free? What's and average wage to make at a saw shop, lets say its $15 per hour, and I wouldn't do it for that but that's me. So that leaves $15 per hour for the business, out of that $15 how much goes to overhead, after all it cost's money to run a shop weather you own the land and building or not, there is tools to buy, bills to pay. Say out of that $5 goes to overhead and bills, tools. That's $10 profit for 3hrs work. Pretty sad if you ask me.



I don't doubt it might take you long but how long does it take you to do a woods port and what all is involved with what YOU do. I know differnt people do different things, do you have alot of overhead for porting saws?

Equipment is pretty minmal for such a shop, I would say a good saw porter should have a lathe and maybe a mill, tig welder and a good hand piece to grind with, though I think a lot of guys use a 50.00 dremel. So I could see 3-4 thousand in decent equipment, for the most part if you have a garage or a good work space you can port saws. It's not like a shop for semi's. I seriously doubt this D&D just ports saws if it is a full fledge saw shop I would bet they are into *** selling and servicing with doing some porting on the side. I don't see anyone opening a shop to just port saws, especially with the EPA frowning on such a thing. If someone know what the shop does for sure, chime in. If they do by chance just port saws I bet they don't have a shop in town and it is out of the pole building tyoe buisness, I have a guy near me that does this exact thing, he owns a tree service by day and a saw reapir shop at night for a hobby. Nothing fancy just a nice setup out of his pole barn he already has had.


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

gink595 said:


> I don't doubt it might take you long but how long does it take you to do a woods port and what all is involved with what YOU do. I know differnt people do different things, do you have alot of overhead for porting saws?
> 
> Equipment is pretty minmal for such a shop, I would say a good saw porter should have a lathe and maybe a mill, tig welder and a good hand piece to grind with, though I think a lot of guys use a 50.00 dremel. So I could see 3-4 thousand in decent equipment, for the most part if you have a garage or a good work space you can port saws. It's not like a shop for semi's. I seriously doubt this D&D just ports saws if it is a full fledge saw shop I would bet they are into *** selling and servicing with doing some porting on the side. I don't see anyone opening a shop to just port saws, especially with the EPA frowning on such a thing. If someone know what the shop does for sure, chime in. If they do by chance just port saws I bet they don't have a shop in town and it is out of the pole building tyoe buisness, I have a guy near me that does this exact thing, he owns a tree service by day and a saw reapir shop at night for a hobby. Nothing fancy just a nice setup out of his pole barn he already has had.



This D&D shop does allot more then porting. I have allot of tools, including a lathe, and I do machine work on all my port jobs. But I don't port other people saws, just my own. 

This place has a big shop by the sounds of it. So lets keep it about this shop and not what other people do. 

And my math was off, $90 for 3 hours. Labour to pay your employee is say $45 for that 3hrs, and that's cheap. That's $45 left for the shop, that's $15 per hour profit for the shop, now take say $5 for overhead per hour, then that leaves $10 per hour profit. You can't make a living at that. IMHO you can't even pay the bills.


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## gink595 (Aug 19, 2010)

parrisw said:


> This D&D shop does allot more then porting. I have allot of tools, including a lathe, and I do machine work on all my port jobs. But I don't port other people saws, just my own.
> 
> This place has a big shop by the sounds of it. So lets keep it about this shop and not what other people do.
> 
> And my math was off, $90 for 3 hours. Labour to pay your employee is say $45 for that 3hrs, and that's cheap. That's $45 left for the shop, that's $15 per hour profit for the shop, now take say $5 for overhead per hour, then that leaves $10 per hour profit. You can't make a living at that. IMHO you can't even pay the bills.



Well there you go, they do more than port work, thats how they keep their doors open.

I think 90.00 dollars is a fair price for a typical woods port saw. But to say you aren't getting much for 90.00 isn't a fair statement, you might get more than you bargained for. Just becasue people on the net are charging big dollars to port and people pay doesn't mean you are getting the best for your money. I've seen some instances first hand where a guy has paid good money to have his saw ported to find out it wasn't what he thought when compared to others. As far as keeping the topic about this shop is a little bogus too, the whole debate was wether this shop's work compared to higher priced porters


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## pwoller (Aug 19, 2010)

They are a husky dealer. They sell all types of equipment, and as far as I noticed they service pretty much anything. One of the owners does the mods, and he doesnt share the secrets with the other employees. While he worked over my saw about 30 people came and went having other things fixed or buying something. They were all taken care of by the other brother or the workers. It is a small shop that seems to do a great ammount of business. The guys are super friendly and knowlegable. In my few visits they have taught me all types of stuff about saws, if you havent been there make the trip.


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## pwoller (Aug 19, 2010)

gink595 said:


> Well there you go, they do more than port work, thats how they keep their doors open.
> 
> I think 90.00 dollars is a fair price for a typical woods port saw. But to say you aren't getting much for 90.00 isn't a fair statement, you might get more than you bargained for. Just becasue people on the net are charging big dollars to port and people pay doesn't mean you are getting the best for your money. I've seen some instances first hand where a guy has paid good money to have his saw ported to find out it wasn't what he thought when compared to others. As far as keeping the topic about this shop is a little bogus too, the whole debate was wether this shop's work compared to higher priced porters



I agree, beating a dead horse. I only recommended them as another option to the internet porters. I and many others have had good results using them and they are above reasonable. The OP can decide if he wants to use them or not. Everyone else just jumped in to say that for that price they cant be doing complete and good work, in my opinion that is a very big assumption from people that have never used them.

:deadhorse:


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## Tzed250 (Aug 19, 2010)

.


Because of the diminishing returns on porting I'll bet that the % of power gained/dollar ratio is way better on the $90 port job. 


.


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## whitedogone (Aug 19, 2010)

A guy who I went to college with in carbondale still lives down there. He runs a tree service. He has had 6 or 7 saws done by them. Those things run real good. He told me the guys name that does the work a while back. But, I can't remember the guys name.


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

gink595 said:


> Well there you go, they do more than port work, thats how they keep their doors open.
> 
> I think 90.00 dollars is a fair price for a typical woods port saw. But to say you aren't getting much for 90.00 isn't a fair statement, you might get more than you bargained for. Just becasue people on the net are charging big dollars to port and people pay doesn't mean you are getting the best for your money. I've seen some instances first hand where a guy has paid good money to have his saw ported to find out it wasn't what he thought when compared to others. As far as keeping the topic about this shop is a little bogus too, the whole debate was wether this shop's work compared to higher priced porters



Yep, I understand. 

I don't think $250 is big dollars, its no cheap but not big. Myself, I would not do it for $250, and I'm no pro. My time is just worth more then that to me. What if you farked something up? Do you just give the guy back a $1000 saw that is now worthless? Or do you spot him a new $1000 saw? 

What did you pay copesy to do that 7900? Now I know its a kick ass saw, that is one fast bugger? But lets bring things into perspective here! Maybe he gave you a deal? Maybe not? 

So when are you sending one of your saws out for a $90 port job?


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

whitedogone said:


> A guy who I went to college with in carbondale still lives down there. He runs a tree service. He has had 6 or 7 saws done by them. Those things run real good. He told me the guys name that does the work a while back. But, I can't remember the guys name.



Stock saws run good too.


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## nmurph (Aug 19, 2010)

i agree with that. pop the cylinder, measure the piston and widen the E/I, bevel the edges of the ports, knock a hole in the muffler and call it good. the customer gets a noticible gain and doesn't lose much in durability. they are happy bc they only spent a ben on it and ignorance is bliss bc they don't know how much gain is left on the table with this minimalist port job.


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## pwoller (Aug 19, 2010)

nmurph said:


> i agree with that. pop the cylinder, measure the piston and widen the E/I, bevel the edges of the ports, knock a hole in the muffler and call it good. the customer gets a noticible gain and doesn't lose much in durability. they are happy bc they only spent a ben on it and ignorance is bliss bc they don't know how much gain is left on the table with this minimalist port job.



So do you internet porter experts honor the husky warrenty after you do your work? They do.


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

nmurph said:


> i agree with that. pop the cylinder, measure the piston and widen the E/I, bevel the edges of the ports, knock a hole in the muffler and call it good. the customer gets a noticible gain and doesn't lose much in durability. they are happy bc they only spent a ben on it and ignorance is bliss bc they don't know how much gain is left on the table with this minimalist port job.



So true, until they run one faster.


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

pwoller said:


> So do you internet porter experts honor the husky warrenty after you do your work?



Why would they? Husky wont? They know the risk of modding saws. Does Double D offer a warranty on modded saws?


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## nmurph (Aug 19, 2010)

pwoller said:


> So do you internet porter experts honor the husky warrenty after you do your work? They do.



yep, i fix anything on any saw that i own, am running, and that i have ported.


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## nmurph (Aug 19, 2010)

pwoller said:


> So do you internet porter experts honor the husky warrenty after you do your work? They do.



why do you insist on being so defensive? many of us admit they may do an ok basic port job and that lots of the gains of a full port job can be gotten from the $90 job.


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## whitedogone (Aug 19, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Stock saws run good too.



Not like his they don't. The last time I was down there we ran a few of them against a couple of his stockers....big difference. I'm not muck of a husky guy but I thinks they were 372's and 390's or 95's


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## tlandrum (Aug 19, 2010)

saw shop rates around here are 60 an hr. so it would be really hard to get much for 90 bucks. figure disassembly and reassembly you get an hour worth of porting work. just the 288 exhaust hood and screen would cost 20bucks wouldnt it? im betting its a muffler modd and setting squish with no grinding done. that would be better than stock , should be a noticeable difference in power. that would fit the 90 dollar bill around here. if they do good work and the saws run good and folks are happy with them,good for them. thats why they have been in bussiness for so long. but you sure cant get a good woods port around here for that kind of money.. nuff said


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

tlandrum2002 said:


> saw shop rates around here are 60 an hr. so it would be really hard to get much for 90 bucks. figure disassembly and reassembly you get an hour worth of porting work. just the 288 exhaust hood and screen would cost 20bucks wouldnt it? im betting its a muffler modd and setting squish with no grinding done. that would be better than stock , should be a noticeable difference in power. that would fit the 90 dollar bill around here. if they do good work and the saws run good and folks are happy with them,good for them. thats why they have been in bussiness for so long. but you sure cant get a good woods port around here for that kind of money.. nuff said



Ya, that's why they can offer a warranty, cause they don't alter anything! LOL, no grinding done, so its easy to send it back to husky for warranty. I'm dying to see inside a Double D saw!


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## tlandrum (Aug 19, 2010)

id bet a dz jelly donuts that they dont grind the cylinder for that price.


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## parrisw (Aug 19, 2010)

tlandrum2002 said:


> id bet a dz jelly donuts that they dont grind the cylinder for that price.



Yep, but if the customer is happy and doesn't know any better that's ok too.


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## Shrug (Aug 20, 2010)

These posts have been so back and forth wishy washy that I am starting to think that I should leave well enough alone and just leave my saws stock. I mean stock saws run great and will do the job just as well as a modified saw. It may take a little longer, but would you really notice a difference if you are working all day? In the end, the work is done. I will just keep them in tip top stalk form and keep the chains super sharp and they should cut just fine and run a long time. 

When I buy a Stihl I will get the aftermarket parts that are available such as the double port muffler etc, etc, etc. Other than that this port, don't port, do a ton of work, keep it simple, geeeeeeez it is enough to drive you crazy before it is all said and done. 

On top of that, as I said before. I am not exactly crazy about sending my saws away across the freaking country anyway.


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## pwoller (Aug 20, 2010)

nmurph said:


> why do you insist on being so defensive? many of us admit they may do an ok basic port job and that lots of the gains of a full port job can be gotten from the $90 job.



I've had enough of this chit. I put them out there as a source and everyone jumped me for it cause they are too cheap. You internet porters that charge 300 bucks for your work are obviously threatened. Go cut some cookies and burn them in your Chiminaya, stop beating a dead horse. Your rates are rediculous and your skills are subpar.


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## pwoller (Aug 20, 2010)

Shrug said:


> These posts have been so back and forth wishy washy that I am starting to think that I should leave well enough alone and just leave my saws stock. I mean stock saws run great and will do the job just as well as a modified saw. It may take a little longer, but would you really notice a difference if you are working all day? In the end, the work is done. I will just keep them in tip top stalk form and keep the chains super sharp and they should cut just fine and run a long time.
> 
> When I buy a Stihl I will get the aftermarket parts that are available such as the double port muffler etc, etc, etc. Other than that this port, don't port, do a ton of work, keep it simple, geeeeeeez it is enough to drive you crazy before it is all said and done.
> 
> On top of that, as I said before. I am not exactly crazy about sending my saws away across the freaking country anyway.



Thats not a bad idea, just dont send 300 bucks to anyone.


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## tlandrum (Aug 20, 2010)

pwoller said:


> I've had enough of this chit. I put them out there as a source and everyone jumped me for it cause they are too cheap. You internet porters that charge 300 bucks for your work are obviously threatened. Go cut some cookies and burn them in your Chiminaya, stop beating a dead horse. Your rates are rediculous and your skills are subpar.


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## pwoller (Aug 20, 2010)

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:


tlandrum2002 said:


>


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## Banshee (Aug 20, 2010)

tlandrum2002 said:


> id bet a dz jelly donuts that they dont grind the cylinder for that price.



Your going to lose some jelly donuts. They do it right there in front of you. They have a machine shop on the side. They'll let you stand over their shoulder while they do the work if wanted. 

I'm getting ready to have my 084 done by them soon. I'll have to start a thread with before and after cut times and include pix of the cylinder to show that they port the cylinders. If you guys like.


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## pwoller (Aug 20, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Ya, that's why they can offer a warranty, cause they don't alter anything! LOL, no grinding done, so its easy to send it back to husky for warranty. I'm dying to see inside a Double D saw!



They grind I've seen it, and your officially stupid again. And its D and D, get it right stupid!


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## nmurph (Aug 20, 2010)

pwoller said:


> I've had enough of this chit. I put them out there as a source and everyone jumped me for it cause they are too cheap. You internet porters that charge 300 bucks for your work are obviously threatened. Go cut some cookies and burn them in your Chiminaya, stop beating a dead horse. Your rates are rediculous and your skills are subpar.



ease up..........i'm trying to help understand what you might get for a $90 and why people are so happy to have them done at the double d. i always get suspicious of people who get so defensive.

shrub, stop trying to be the rodney king of this arguement. you sound more like rodney dangerfield. you're new, this is just a family squabble.


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## pwoller (Aug 20, 2010)

nmurph said:


> ease up..........i'm trying to help understand what you might get for a $90 and why people are so happy to have them done at the double d. i always get suspicious of people who get so defensive.
> 
> shrub, stop trying to be the rodney king of this arguement. you sound more like rodney dangerfield. you're new, this is just a family squabble.



You know what #### it, dont go to d and d for your mods. At least the line will be shorter for me.


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## tlandrum (Aug 20, 2010)

id be very anxious to see those port pics. to see what kind of detail they go into. dont most of your good woods port jobs include milling jug for squish, milling piston pop up,grinding ports,cleaning up piston windows,blending transfers, adding port to muffler, not to mention the time spent to map the port timing and resetting it after the jug is lowered. so they do all that while you look over there shoulder. yep take lots of pics and timed cut videos. i gotta see this to believe it.


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## pwoller (Aug 20, 2010)

tlandrum2002 said:


> id be very anxious to see those port pics. to see what kind of detail they go into. dont most of your good woods port jobs include milling jug for squish, milling piston pop up,grinding ports,cleaning up piston windows,blending transfers, adding port to muffler, not to mention the time spent to map the port timing and restting it after the jug is lowered. so they do all that while you look over there shoulder. yep take lots of pics and timed cut videos. i gotta see this to believe it.



Trade sercrets, why would they let us video their work?


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## tlandrum (Aug 20, 2010)

its not the colonels secret recipe ,its a port job for cry it out loud. you pay for it you can take all the pics of it you want.its yours isnt it??


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## parrisw (Aug 20, 2010)

Banshee said:


> Your going to lose some jelly donuts. They do it right there in front of you. They have a machine shop on the side. They'll let you stand over their shoulder while they do the work if wanted.
> 
> I'm getting ready to have my 084 done by them soon. I'll have to start a thread with before and after cut times and include pix of the cylinder to show that they port the cylinders. If you guys like.



Ok, so you can watch them do their work? Yet Pwoller says the guy doing the porting doesn't share any of his porting secrets to his employees? WTF?? 



pwoller said:


> They grind I've seen it, and your officially stupid again. And its D and D, get it right stupid!



ha ha ha ha ha OK whatever you say DOUBLE D!



pwoller said:


> I've had enough of this chit. I put them out there as a source and everyone jumped me for it cause they are too cheap. You internet porters that charge 300 bucks for your work are obviously threatened. Go cut some cookies and burn them in your Chiminaya, stop beating a dead horse. Your rates are rediculous and your skills are subpar.




ha ha again, It was me that started with the first comment, and I'm not an internet porter?? And where is the $300 price from? Last time it was $250 now its $300? 

ha ha, now this is getting good! LOL


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## parrisw (Aug 20, 2010)

pwoller said:


> They are a husky dealer. They sell all types of equipment, and as far as I noticed they service pretty much anything. One of the owners does the mods, and he doesnt share the secrets with the other employees. While he worked over my saw about 30 people came and went having other things fixed or buying something. They were all taken care of by the other brother or the workers. It is a small shop that seems to do a great ammount of business. The guys are super friendly and knowlegable. In my few visits they have taught me all types of stuff about saws, if you havent been there make the trip.



So he doesn't share their super special $90 secret port jobs with their employee's, but yet you can stand there and watch everything that he does!! LOL, geeze this gets good. I'm sure Husky would love to know they are still offering a warranty on their modded huskies.


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## pwoller (Aug 20, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Ok, so you can watch them do their work? Yet Pwoller says the guy doing the porting doesn't share any of his porting secrets to his employees? WTF??
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its ok simple people are people non the less. I still respect you. 250- 300 what differance does it make? Your still over priced cookie cutting internet porters. Hows it feel to have people bashing you? Only the family knows how they port, pretty reasonable to me.


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## tlandrum (Aug 20, 2010)

L I K E I S A I D. you pay for it its your saw to take pics of. if you want to copy there work you can ,ITS YOUR NOW YOU PAID FOR IT.


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## parrisw (Aug 20, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Its ok simple people are people non the less. I still respect you. 250- 300 what differance does it make? Your still over priced cookie cutting internet porters. Hows it feel to have people bashing you? Only the family knows how they port, pretty reasonable to me.



Ok, you must be the stupid one, you keep saying I'm an internet porter and that I'm over priced?? I've said it like a few times now, I DON'T PORT SAWS FOR PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET IT??? Who's bashing me?


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## parrisw (Aug 20, 2010)

tlandrum2002 said:


> L I K E I S A I D. you pay for it its your saw to take pics of. if you want to copy there work you can ,ITS YOUR NOW YOU PAID FOR IT.



Ya, he said he'd bring it to a GTG and let whomever look it over and run it. I all ask is that you just pull the muffler off and take a pic of the EX port.


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## tlandrum (Aug 20, 2010)

shhhh, he cant its a trade secret


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## parrisw (Aug 20, 2010)

tlandrum2002 said:


> shhhh, he cant its a trade secret



ha ha. I don't think he could organize a [email protected]$K up in a whore house.


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## ta2guy (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm new here and don't want to step on any toes.But the guy that used to work on my saws was the cheapest around and did the best work.He was an Amish guy with low overhead like this d&d place.Stayed wicked busy.All the local loggers used him.My logger buddies turned me on to him.He sold Husky,Jred &Olympyk(efco) and worked on anything with a small engine.
He did "cookie cutter" port and polish & muf mod cheap.He would also build a full blown race saw but you paid for it.That being said most guys that wanted a mod went cheap because there was a noticeable gain for not a lot of $.
When I was doing alot of clearing for new construction at the end of the day the modded saws were worth it.More work done in less time = more profit.Now with herniated and ruptured discs,more power,less weight is worth it.
I've been in business for myself for 17 years.In construction a 33% net profit would be great.With all the insurance etc. an $18/hr guy cost me about $26/hr.In the tattoo business I'm in now it's all subcontract/piecework.


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## ta2guy (Aug 20, 2010)

Wow leave me out. this went way further in the last half hour.I had to stop my post and feed kittens.When I came back........:jawdrop:


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## pwoller (Aug 20, 2010)

parrisw said:


> ha ha. I don't think he could organize a [email protected]$K up in a whore house.



Really? Thats just rediculous.


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## pwoller (Aug 20, 2010)

parrisw said:


> So he doesn't share their super special $90 secret port jobs with their employee's, but yet you can stand there and watch everything that he does!! LOL, geeze this gets good. I'm sure Husky would love to know they are still offering a warranty on their modded huskies.



Yes you simple MFer. Is it that hard for you to under stand? Its hard enough to get tools into the cylinder so you cant see much.


----------



## timberwolf (Aug 20, 2010)

> I mean stock saws run great and will do the job just as well as a modified saw.



I think you should run a good ported saw and see if you still feel the same way. Excelent point on keeping a sharp chain, but a sharp chain just compounds the gains of a ported saw.

I have showed up at a few wood cutting days with what I would call strong ported work saws and square ground work chain and been cutting easily 3 to 4 times faster than equal cc saws that were bone stock with hand filed round chain, the look on a guys face when even his 90 or 100 cc monster saw gets out cut bad by a little 50-60 cc ported saw is priceless.

It is easy for someone to have $10,000 plus tied up in tools to port saws, just a simple lathe, mill, decent welder, grinder and hand tools and unless they are just copycat or guess porting some design software. 

At $90 a saw it would take over a 100 saws just to pay the tools not to mention any wage, hydro, taxes, consumables, repair or upgrades for the tools.

Sure it's possible to give a saw a little port work in a couple hours and get some decent gains, thats fine if a guy drops of a good running saw and comes back to pick it up later. 

In the real world what goes into a good ported saw? 

first off it gets shipped most times requiring trips to pick things up, time to unpack, refuel. A good 50% of the time saws have issues to start and work and adjustment just to get them running right in the first place. SOme times pistons, rings, carb kits or other parts need replacing.

Then there is the design, for basic work to get modest gains with a bit of experience yes there are things that can be done to get gains but to get the most out of each saw I don't see much option but to use some computer modeling. I guess the option is the try and see method and there have been many dust ups here on the net about it... a builder sends one good saw then one dog, why? because the builder is mostly guessing and trying different things on peoples saws. To model a saw it takes a couple hours work to do the measuring and a few more working out the design. Over time a data base of desings can be put together and it becomes easier to develop porting designs for simmilar saw models. 

Then there is the work, grinders don't last forever and cutters, sanding drums and polishing wheels far less all costing money to replace. Making dozens of jigs for holding all sorts of pistons and cylinders takes time and lacking those jigs truing parts on a lathe takes more time yet.

I know many guys don't touch carbs in port jobs, but if the fuel and flow demmands of the engine are modified then the carb will not provide the ideal mixture. Plain and simple gains are had by doing work to the carb and intake tract. Add another hour or so to the job. 

If some caluclations and computer work are done final compression can be worked out pretty close, if not most times the saw needs to go together and come back apart a few times to get the compression and squish in range.

Once it is all together then it needs to be set back up and to do a good job likely ran for a tank of fuel or two to settle the rings and make sure everything is right.

Drain it all out, purge the gas tank, clean the saw, pack it back up many times finding a new box to replace the original shipping box and a trip to the post office/shipper.

The time involved will easily eat up a full day plus. $20-$25 an hour for skilled labour in a shop is cheap, likely too cheap.

The menu is there for everybody to pick from, you can order a hamburger or a steak. Hamburgers are good sometimes, steaks are better but cost more... Just don't try to sell me a "hamburger" as "steak on a bun" at twice the price.


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## Shrug (Aug 20, 2010)

nmurph said:


> ease up..........i'm trying to help understand what you might get for a $90 and why people are so happy to have them done at the double d. i always get suspicious of people who get so defensive.
> 
> shrub, stop trying to be the rodney king of this arguement. you sound more like rodney dangerfield. you're new, this is just a family squabble.



Oh nmurph, listen up. I was simply trying to ease the tension because you immature morons are going at it like a couple of elementary students fighting over a cupcake. But don't you EVER freaking compare me to rodney king, ever. And telling me I sound more like rodney dangerfield, is that supposed to mean that I sound stupid? Or is that supposed to mean that I am amusing you because I am trying to ease things up or what? I think the best course of action would be for me to avoid this childish argument altogether. But I will tell ya one thing buttercup, comparing me to people when you don't have the slightest clue of who I am or what I am like in real life just shows what a moron you really are. Making those kinds of assumptions about me in real life would not end well for whatever ignorant fool made that mistake.


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## ChrisF (Aug 20, 2010)

Welcome to AS! :hmm3grin2orange:


Bwahahahaha


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## Cantdog (Aug 20, 2010)

ChrisF said:


> Welcome to AS! :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> Bwahahahaha




ReallyLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!

This is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick!!!!!!!!!


$90.00 Port Job:chainsawguy:


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## parrisw (Aug 20, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Really? Thats just rediculous.



ha ha ha, it was a joke, obviously you have no sense of humor.


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## parrisw (Aug 20, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Yes you simple MFer. Is it that hard for you to under stand? Its hard enough to get tools into the cylinder so you cant see much.



ooo, someone's getting mad, I'm still laughing that's ok, I still don't hate you yet. Any more names to call me.


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## Mastermind (Aug 20, 2010)

Wow. This thread has gotten some panties twisted. 

This all started by someone stating a fact, you get what you pay for, and that is a fact.

What Timberwolf can do to a saw can't be done while someone watches over his shoulder. The man can build a hell of a fast saw, for work or play.

Us getting all worked up over this is crazy guys. I came to this site and others hoping to learn some of the tricks that the "internet porters" have learned over the years of hard work and study.

Do I do a saw like Timberwolf or some of these other guys that have all the right equipment to blueprint a saw? Hell no. And the point of this thread that some of you guys are missing is that a three hour port job can't match that level of detail either. There is just no way. Is it possible to increase the performance of a saw in that amount of time? Of course it is.

Is this saw shop in Indiana ripping people off? Hell no, I'm sure they wouldn't have been in business for forty years if they were. I'm sure that the saws they modd show an increase in power over a stock saw. But will one of their three hour port jobs cut as well as one of Timberwolf's modded saws? Of course not. Because you get what you pay for. 

You guys can pile on me if you want to, hell I won't even get mad about it. If you can't see the difference in this comparison I've made watch this video.


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 20, 2010)

*I see the can of fake whoop ass got bent over*

Try some finger porting. Helps the motor maintain rpm's in the cut and spools super quicklike. Above all else, keep them symmetrical and make them look good:yoyo:






Here's Frank aka gink running my 5100 motor with finger porting. And when you want a go fast toy, build a pipe

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ieKTORoXXqY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ieKTORoXXqY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ABz12YPnixw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ABz12YPnixw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 20, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> *Wow. This thread has gotten some camel toe panties twisted. *
> 
> I fixed it:hmm3grin2orange:


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## ta2guy (Aug 20, 2010)

Chevytown I have a ? Is that the jug off the 5100? If so were are the ring ends? The reason I'm asking is I was worried I pulled my transfers too close on my second port job too far.I can't get them that far without ring ends going in them.Ithought I was being conservative and I guess I am.lol.I'm brand new to modding. Thanks to you "internet porters" I've learned alot I wanted to know for years.


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## nmurph (Aug 20, 2010)

Shrug said:


> Oh nmurph, listen up. I was simply trying to ease the tension because you immature morons are going at it like a couple of elementary students fighting over a cupcake. But don't you EVER freaking compare me to rodney king, ever. And telling me I sound more like rodney dangerfield, is that supposed to mean that I sound stupid? Or is that supposed to mean that I am amusing you because I am trying to ease things up or what? I think the best course of action would be for me to avoid this childish argument altogether. But I will tell ya one thing buttercup, comparing me to people when you don't have the slightest clue of who I am or what I am like in real life just shows what a moron you really are. Making those kinds of assumptions about me in real life would not end well for whatever ignorant fool made that mistake.



i'm sorry, calling you rodney king was giving you too much credit. sugar buns, if you get this worked up about such things, the best thing for you to do is to delete you browser history, empty your cookies and forget that you ever ventured here. you need to stop, grab your big girl panties and give'em a tug. i guess it's ok for you to call someone a moron, but you can't take it when someone pokes at you. i bet your a lot of fun in a card game. there are other forums for those that only play nice, around here we like to have a little fun.


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## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2010)

Is it show off 50cc saw time, lol?

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/presprLbfpU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/presprLbfpU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


Super had Pin Oak.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vMr7stjdR7c?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vMr7stjdR7c?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


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## Shrug (Aug 20, 2010)

Dude, I can take a joke as well as anyone. But not from a complete stranger. Someone I have known a while, sure. A friend or family member, sure. We rip on each other and crack jokes with the best of em! But from some guy I don't know from Adam, that does not fly with me. Maybe you don't understand that method of thinking, hell I don't know. But I was brought up to treat others the way I would expect to be treated and to be respectful until I am disrespected. I was simply following my moral compass here man. That is why I was not the one who resorted to comparisons and name calling in the first place. I never would have called you a moron if you had not made the comment that you did.


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## pwoller (Aug 20, 2010)

timberwolf said:


> I think you should run a good ported saw and see if you still feel the same way. Excelent point on keeping a sharp chain, but a sharp chain just compounds the gains of a ported saw.
> 
> I have showed up at a few wood cutting days with what I would call strong ported work saws and square ground work chain and been cutting easily 3 to 4 times faster than equal cc saws that were bone stock with hand filed round chain, the look on a guys face when even his 90 or 100 cc monster saw gets out cut bad by a little 50-60 cc ported saw is priceless.
> 
> ...



Great post that about sums it up.


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 20, 2010)

ta2guy said:


> Chevytown I have a ? Is that the jug off the 5100? If so were are the ring ends? The reason I'm asking is I was worried I pulled my transfers too close on my second port job too far.I can't get them that far without ring ends going in them.Ithought I was being conservative and I guess I am.lol.I'm brand new to modding. Thanks to you "internet porters" I've learned alot I wanted to know for years.



Yeah brother tatt, it's a jug off the 5100. I went very wide, so you're probably good to go. The pin is in the middle on the intake side. This saw has been run very hard and I've never had a problem.

Show a picture of your transfers if you can.


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## Mastermind (Aug 20, 2010)

Where did all the naysayers go???


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## Cantdog (Aug 20, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> Where did all the naysayers go???



I guess they finally got tired of:deadhorse: LOLOLOL!!!


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 21, 2010)

i think Timberwolf shut us all up!!


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## ta2guy (Aug 21, 2010)

Chevytown.
Can't post pics right now camera on one side of county(work) saws on other(home).I don't want to highjack thread either.Saw is on back burner.It's an 026.After I fired it up ran and it a bit,Iwent to do a couple test cuts and it wouldn't tune.It would four stroke real nice then lean scream.Long story short :bad crank bearing on clutch side.Learning experience.I shoulda checked it better.There was a reason it's been in the basement for 8-10 years just couldn't remember what it was.
My transfers are a little sloppy.I dinged the exhaust side on one so I had to smooth it out and match the other side to it.On the intake side they are very conservative.Just smoothed out a little compared to yours.Didn't do anything to the lowers.I really just wanted to see if I could hop one up a little but I think I'm getting hooked.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 21, 2010)

i can't wait till i know enough to start messin with my saws!


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 21, 2010)

*aka timberpup*



chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i think Timberwolf shut us all up!!



Tell that to Tom and Dennis:greenchainsaw:


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 21, 2010)

ta2guy said:


> Chevytown.
> Can't post pics right now camera on one side of county(work) saws on other(home).I don't want to highjack thread either.Saw is on back burner.It's an 026.After I fired it up ran and it a bit,Iwent to do a couple test cuts and it wouldn't tune.It would four stroke real nice then lean scream.Long story short :bad crank bearing on clutch side.Learning experience.I shoulda checked it better.There was a reason it's been in the basement for 8-10 years just couldn't remember what it was.
> My transfers are a little sloppy.I dinged the exhaust side on one so I had to smooth it out and match the other side to it.On the intake side they are very conservative.Just smoothed out a little compared to yours.Didn't do anything to the lowers.I really just wanted to see if I could hop one up a little but I think I'm getting hooked.



I've only gotten to know Dolmar and Husq. I've never seen inside a stihl other than Bounty's 660 exhaust cylinder port. I think the 260 has two rings, but there are others more qualified to answer your 260 questions

That CAD you got is going to get *FULL BLOWN*.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 21, 2010)

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> Tell that to Tom and Dennis:greenchainsaw:



i'm but a lowly newb, i don't get it. i reckon if i read enough i will eh?


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## blsnelling (Aug 21, 2010)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i think Timberwolf shut us all up!!





CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> Tell that to Tom and Dennis:greenchainsaw:



Never seen their work. We've all seen Brian's, and know it's top notch. He sets the bar mighty high.


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## Mastermind (Aug 21, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Never seen their work. We've all seen Brian's, and know it's top notch. He sets the bar mighty high.



There's a lot of guys who do good work around here. I've learned sooo much from all of you "internet porters". lol


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 21, 2010)

*Remember those days you spent at RS*



blsnelling said:


> Never seen their work.



I don't think it matters in your case:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 21, 2010)

I've never seen inside any of D&D's work, but I've ran a few saws from them, and I wouldn't call them ported. They did run fine, but I wouldn't say they were stronger than a muffler modded saw IMHO. I'm not trying to down them but $90.00 sounds about right for what they do. I don't see how you could port a saw in a few minutes as somewone looked over your shoulder, it takes longer than that to degree a saw, at least it takes me longer lol.


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## pwoller (Aug 21, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> I've never seen inside any of D&D's work, but I've ran a few saws from them, and I wouldn't call them ported. They did run fine, but I wouldn't say they were stronger than a muffler modded saw IMHO. I'm not trying to down them but $90.00 sounds about right for what they do. I don't see how you could port a saw in a few minutes as somewone looked over your shoulder, it takes longer than that to degree a saw, at least it takes me longer lol.



I'll play along for the good of the debate. So that we have some hard evidence of the work D and D does, I will be willing to send my saw to you or anyone else with equal modding skills. You can test it, inspect it, and report back. If you think you can improve the woods port they did, do it and retest it. That will pretty much end this discussion dont you think? Oh and I'll need my saw back before October.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 21, 2010)

pwoller said:


> I'll play along for the good of the debate. So that we have some hard evidence of the work D and D does, I will be willing to send my saw to you or anyone else with equal modding skills. You can test it, inspect it, and report back. If you think you can improve the woods port they did, do it and retest it. That will pretty much end this discussion dont you think? Oh and I'll need my saw back before October.



i think that is a hell of an idea!! any takers? 

oh and i'm sure the port work that may be performed won't be free?


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 21, 2010)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i think that is a hell of an idea!! any takers?
> 
> oh and i'm sure the port work that may be performed won't be free?



Why should it be free?

Just pop the cyl and take photo's of the cyl and muffler and note of how they are sealing the base if you feel the need.


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 22, 2010)

pwoller said:


> I'll play along for the good of the debate. So that we have some hard evidence of the work D and D does, I will be willing to send my saw to you or anyone else with equal modding skills. You can test it, inspect it, and report back. If you think you can improve the woods port they did, do it and retest it. That will pretty much end this discussion dont you think? Oh and I'll need my saw back before October.



I'll run the saw and compare it to the modded saws I have "with video" but I won't do any work to the saw.

Like Al said a few pics would save everyone a lot of hassle. What say you?


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## blsnelling (Aug 22, 2010)

What saw are we discussing here?


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 22, 2010)

LOL, thats a good question!!


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## Tree Sling'r (Aug 22, 2010)

I love these threads...


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## mdavlee (Aug 22, 2010)

Yeah this went a lot longer than I thought it would. I think everyone needs to send a ported 390 to someone and let them run them all and report back.oke: Maybe that would end the whining.:sword:

Probably not but it would be fun to watch anyway.


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## pwoller (Aug 22, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> What saw are we discussing here?



I was refering to my 390xp.


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## pwoller (Aug 22, 2010)

mdavlee said:


> Yeah this went a lot longer than I thought it would. I think everyone needs to send a ported 390 to someone and let them run them all and report back.oke: Maybe that would end the whining.:sword:
> 
> Probably not but it would be fun to watch anyway.






Whining? We're just starting to get somewhere with this thread.


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## mdavlee (Aug 22, 2010)

Well it has gotten better than it was. I would like to see in wood comparison or pictures on the cylinder on your saw.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 23, 2010)

pwoller said:


> I was refering to my 390xp.



theres that indiana GTG oct. 2nd you could take your saw and let the guys run it. don't know if you can make it or not though?


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## husq2100 (Aug 27, 2010)

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> Tell that to Tom and Dennis:greenchainsaw:



still got butt hurt mate........


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 27, 2010)

So what's the latest? Has the saw been shipped to Andy as planned?


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 27, 2010)

*I see u still have a problem with Tom*



husq2100 said:


> still got butt hurt mate........



Then use a plug and shut that loose hole of yours


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## husq2100 (Aug 27, 2010)

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> Then use a plug and shut that loose hole of yours



i guess its easy to feel tough when running in the shadows of others...ps take some of your own advice


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 27, 2010)

husq2100 said:


> i guess its easy to feel tough when running in the shadows of others...ps take some of your own advice



I know where I stand against stout sawyers like Tom. It sounds like you don't know your place.

I had the sack to send one of my saws to gink to be run against other saws that were fast. Breymeyerfarm had the balls too.

What have you done that pertains to the forum other than flap your lower gums?

I've posted builds, have you?


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2010)




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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Aug 27, 2010)

blsnelling said:


>



Are you rolling your eyes for your "tractor saw" porting that you're going to sell to some sucker for $200:jawdrop:

Why don't you try fixing those choppy transfers before you even attempt to sell that junk to some poor fool...


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2010)




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## husq2100 (Aug 27, 2010)

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> I know where I stand against stout sawyers like Tom. It sounds like you don't know your place.
> 
> I had the sack to send one of my saws to gink to be run against other saws that were fast. Breymeyerfarm had the balls too.
> 
> ...



I see Tom has trained you well :monkey:.....so should I send one of my saws half way around the world to be "tested" to see if I can hang with cool and the gang 

hmmm you talk tough about TW all because you didnt like what he had to say regarding advice givin to you....so you ran and latched onto the first person that agreed with you that you felt had credit....make no mistake Tom can sharpen a chain and build a damn good work or race saw.....but he cant get his pea brain around the idea of there is another way of doing things.....tell me this ....if you were raised in a surrroundings of logging and logging competeions etc (his father being one of the best loggers and competetiors) youd have a bit of knowledge also....he grew up around it and it was intrenched in his life....he was bound to pic a thing or 3 up...

as far as builds ive done....is this the #### measuring part that has nothing to do with fact or this agruement....ive posted a few builds. mostly stock even a concrete saw, some carb rebuilds, helped out with part numbes and a bit of that....think about this: a person could build 50 modded saws and be doing it wrong, an other could build 3 and be getting it right.....does the guy with 50 builds have more "street cred".....

so you know where you stand against "Stout" sawers like Tom....where do you stand against TW???


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## parrisw (Aug 27, 2010)

husq2100 said:


> I see Tom has trained you well :monkey:.....so should I send one of my saws half way around the world to be "tested" to see if I can hang with cool and the gang
> 
> hmmm you talk tough about TW all because you didnt like what he had to say regarding advice givin to you....so you ran and latched onto the first person that agreed with you that you felt had credit....make no mistake Tom can sharpen a chain and build a damn good work or race saw.....but he cant get his pea brain around the idea of there is another way of doing things.....tell me this ....if you were raised in a surrroundings of logging and logging competeions etc (his father being one of the best loggers and competetiors) youd have a bit of knowledge also....he grew up around it and it was intrenched in his life....he was bound to pic a thing or 3 up...
> 
> ...



Good post. I don't respond to Chevyclown anymore, waste of time. But I believe he stands beneath everybody. I love it how every vid he posts he says the chain is not sharp! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, which really means my saw sucks.


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## pwoller (Aug 27, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> So what's the latest? Has the saw been shipped to Andy as planned?



No.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 27, 2010)

pwoller said:


> No.



Sooooooo......still going to happen or is there a change of plan?


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## pwoller (Aug 27, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Sooooooo......still going to happen or is there a change of plan?





I was thinking of testing it then breaking it down and seeing what I could improve.


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## nmurph (Aug 27, 2010)

no.....we want to see a $90 port job......


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## tlandrum (Aug 27, 2010)

maybe after all the discussion he has finally decided 90 bucks would be better left in his pocket than to have the super secret recipe" 90 DOLLAR PORT JOB"


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 27, 2010)

nmurph said:


> no.....we want to see a $90 port job......



i want to see it too. i'm not trying to put the guy down or the shop that did it, i'm just interested in seeing just how much a$$ 90 bucks will get ya. maybe we'll all be surprised?


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## pwoller (Aug 27, 2010)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i want to see it too. i'm not trying to put the guy down or the shop that did it, i'm just interested in seeing just how much a$$ 90 bucks will get ya. maybe we'll all be surprised?



Then go pay them to do it and you'll be able to see and feel the results.


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## nmurph (Aug 28, 2010)

pwoller said:


> I'll play along for the good of the debate. So that we have some hard evidence of the work D and D does, I will be willing to send my saw to you or anyone else with equal modding skills. You can test it, inspect it, and report back. If you think you can improve the woods port they did, do it and retest it. That will pretty much end this discussion dont you think? Oh and I'll need my saw back before October.



you are fast losing cred in this thread.


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## tlandrum (Aug 28, 2010)

yep,i think he forgot about that statement. .....how covenient ,huh?


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## pwoller (Aug 28, 2010)

tlandrum2002 said:


> yep,i think he forgot about that statement. .....how covenient ,huh?



No onew agreed to the "statement", so I figured I'djust bring it to a GTG.


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## parrisw (Aug 28, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Last time I had them port a saw they spent 3 hours on it and my bill was 120 bucks. I know they did the intake and exaust, advanced timing, muff mod and tested adjusted the carb. I cant promise that they did anything to the transfers.
> 
> I can bring it to the next gtg if you want to tear it apart and investigate. I thought the bill was going to be over 200 for the work they did but it was 120.



There ya go, he said someone could tear it apart if they want to, so bring some tools to the GTG guys and a camera.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 28, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Then go pay them to do it and you'll be able to see and feel the results.



yup he lost my support with that wise a$$ comment. 

alot of tough talk in the beginning and now....


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 28, 2010)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> theres that indiana GTG oct. 2nd you could take your saw and let the guys run it. don't know if you can make it or not though?





pwoller said:


> No onew agreed to the "statement", so I figured I'djust bring it to a GTG.



i don't remember you responding about this GTG. can you make it?


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## pwoller (Aug 28, 2010)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i don't remember you responding about this GTG. can you make it?



Maybe. 

The thing is I never had a problem with anyone's statements but to assume something is not done right because it is cheap is pretty rediculous. I just honestly dont care about this thread anymore or what you think about me. I offered a the original poster an option, thats all.


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## Mastermind (Aug 28, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Maybe.
> 
> The thing is I never had a problem with anyone's statements but to assume something is not done right because it is cheap is pretty rediculous. I just honestly dont care about this thread anymore or what you think about me. I offered a the original poster an option, thats all.



You continue to ignore the statements that have been made concerning not the quality of the work but the quantity. Many here have simply said that in three hours only so much can be done. Again I'm sure that D&D will do a great job on anything they do, after all they have been in business for many years. Surely you can understand what I'm saying.


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## pwoller (Aug 28, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> You continue to ignore the statements that have been made concerning not the quality of the work but the quantity. Many here have simply said that in three hours only so much can be done. Again I'm sure that D&D will do a great job on anything they do, after all they have been in business for many years. Surely you can understand what I'm saying.



Work they did looks good, saw runs good. Did they take it as far as some? No. Am I going to look to make it faster? Yeah. There you have it. D and D did a good, mild, 3 hour woods port. End of story.


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## gink595 (Aug 28, 2010)

I wonder how these guys can stay in buisness?

http://www.2-stroke-porting.com/Port_Work_Pricing.html


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 28, 2010)

Their work looks to be very different to saw work. Motorcycle engines I would tend to think would'nt need the extensive amount of port work needed in a chainsaw. Matching of cyl to base, muffler mod, lower transfers, etc.


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## MacLaren (Aug 28, 2010)

I believe you fellers have gotten the best of ol pwoller or whatever his name is. AND RIGHTFULLY SO. From what I have researched a good port job is $250-$300. So, if you all want, just let ol pwoller limp off this thread. He's had the lick fellers.


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## pwoller (Aug 28, 2010)

hillbilly22 said:


> I believe you fellers have gotten the best of ol pwoller or whatever his name is. AND RIGHTFULLY SO. From what I have researched a good port job is $250-$300. So, if you all want, just let ol pwoller limp off this thread. He's had the lick fellers.





Its annoying more then anything, nothing like getting jumped for trying to give some helpful advise. At this point I'm reconsidering letting anyone on this forum touch the saw no matter how it runs or what it looks like it wont be good enough. So Hillbilly and all you other haters.....piss off.


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## gink595 (Aug 28, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Their work looks to be very different to saw work. Motorcycle engines I would tend to think would'nt need the extensive amount of port work needed in a chainsaw. Matching of cyl to base, muffler mod, lower transfers, etc.



Motorcycles engines??? You must not have looked through the pics very much....Jet Skis and Snowmobiles.... A 2 stroke is a two stroke, those motors have more ports, triple exhaust ports boost ports, extra transfers. Take a look at their pics and then come back and tell me a Chainsaw is more extensive work, especially what these thread was about... A woods Port. No boost ports no triple exhaust ports. I would think a chainsaw is on the easier side of the spectrum.


Here is some pics found on their site.


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## blsnelling (Aug 28, 2010)

Why is thread still going on? Pwoller, you have the evidence to end this discussion. You know what you've got, but you're acting like you don't. It is what it is. I appreciate you not wanting to smear someones name on the board, but please don't act like we're all wrong in our original assumptions, when you know otherwise.


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## pwoller (Aug 28, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Why is thread still going on? Pwoller, you have the evidence to end this discussion. You know what you've got, but you're acting like you don't. It is what it is. I appreciate you not wanting to smear someones name on the board, but please don't act like we're all wrong in our original assumptions, when you know otherwise.



Even if it is a strong running saw that they ported, and I put pictures up of the work it will be criticized for not being enough. To me that doesnt seem fair to them.


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## blsnelling (Aug 28, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Even if it is a strong running saw that they ported, and I put pictures up of the work it will be criticized for not being enough. To me that doesnt seem fair to them.



I'm not necessarily asking that you post pictures of their work. Like I said, I appreciate you not trying to come on here and smear their name. But you and I both know the saw is virtually unmodded. At this point in this discussion, I think some facts are in order. The intake is untouched. I couldn't tell for sure, but the exhaust didn't look widened at all either. It looked like, perhaps, they raised the exhaust. That would be a bad move on a saw that is already compression challenged. Again, I'm not sure they touched the exhaust at all. The transfers were untouched as well. The only thing I could confirm was that they sharpened the transfer divider. It is not at all what I would call a ported saw. Therefore, our original assertations that you can't get a woods port for $90, is correct.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Aug 28, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I'm not necessarily asking that you post pictures of their work. Like I said, I appreciate you not trying to come on here and smear their name. But you and I both know the saw is virtually unmodded. At this point in this discussion, I think some facts are in order. The intake is untouched. I couldn't tell for sure, but the exhaust didn't look widened at all either. It looked like, perhaps, they raised the exhaust. That would be a bad move on a saw that is already compression challenged. Again, I'm not sure they touched the exhaust at all. The transfers were untouched as well. The only thing I could confirm was that they sharpened the transfer divider. It is not at all what I would call a ported saw. Therefore, our original assertations that you can't get a woods port for $90, is correct.



did you get to look at it Brad?


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## parrisw (Aug 28, 2010)

gink595 said:


> Motorcycles engines??? You must not have looked through the pics very much....Jet Skis and Snowmobiles.... A 2 stroke is a two stroke, those motors have more ports, triple exhaust ports boost ports, extra transfers. Take a look at their pics and then come back and tell me a Chainsaw is more extensive work, especially what these thread was about... A woods Port. No boost ports no triple exhaust ports. I would think a chainsaw is on the easier side of the spectrum.
> 
> 
> Here is some pics found on their site.




If you read what they did for the $120 it did not seem like much. Just said they matched the intake and exhaust.


So Frank what did you pay copesy to do that 7900 of yours?


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## parrisw (Aug 28, 2010)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> did you get to look at it Brad?



Sounds like he did? We want to know.


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## Metals406 (Aug 28, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Sounds like he did? We want to know.



We do?


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## Mastermind (Aug 28, 2010)

Metals406 said:


> We do?



Well I do.


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## Metals406 (Aug 28, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> Well I do.



Seems to me, whether or not these D&D guys port saws or not, doesn't really effect anyone here at all.

I can say I port saws with sharpened rabbit turds and it's of no consequence to anyone. . . Everyone will still be able to go to work, breath air, play with their kids, drive their cars.

This thread is a mountain-mole-hill thing no?

I say more power to D&D! In these tough economic times, why would I begrudge anyone a living? 

Nothing good ever comes from threads that make these turns. . . There have already been bannings.

Best thing that could happen here is a locked thread, that will slip into the deep vaults of AS.


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## mdavlee (Aug 28, 2010)

This has been about as bad as the 660 vs 390 thread from last year.


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## Mastermind (Aug 28, 2010)

Metals406 said:


> Seems to me, whether or not these D&D guys port saws or not, doesn't really effect anyone here at all.
> 
> I can say I port saws with sharpened rabbit turds and it's of no consequence to anyone. . . Everyone will still be able to go to work, breath air, play with their kids, drive their cars.
> 
> ...



I have to admit you are dead right!!! I'm out of this thread for good.


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## blsnelling (Aug 28, 2010)

He sent me pictures of his cylinder. I chose not to work on it. The way I see it, nothing good can come of this.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 28, 2010)

gink595 said:


> Motorcycles engines??? You must not have looked through the pics very much....Jet Skis and Snowmobiles.... A 2 stroke is a two stroke, those motors have more ports, triple exhaust ports boost ports, extra transfers. Take a look at their pics and then come back and tell me a Chainsaw is more extensive work, especially what these thread was about... A woods Port. No boost ports no triple exhaust ports. I would think a chainsaw is on the easier side of the spectrum.



I'm fully aware of what a 2 stroke motorcycle looks like internally with their extensive porting. Using a 2 stroke motorcrosser for example, even though there is the possability for improvement they are close to the mark from the factory, way more so than a chainsaw. Well I've come back to tell you that a chainsaw needs more extensive work to get to the level of your jet ski's motorcycles etc.

Now, you try and tell me those pictures are of a $160 port job? Yeah right!


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## gink595 (Aug 28, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> I'm fully aware of what a 2 stroke motorcycle looks like internally with their extensive porting. Using a 2 stroke motorcrosser for example, even though there is the possability for improvement they are close to the mark from the factory, way more so than a chainsaw. Well I've come back to tell you that a chainsaw needs more extensive work to get to the level of your jet ski's motorcycles etc.
> 
> Now, you try and tell me those pictures are of a $160 port job? Yeah right!



Awesome Dude, I really don't care either way. I will pay 250.00 for a port job I have no problems with that. But it better run a chit ton better than a stock saw. I'd feel better about a 90.00 port job with 15% gains than a 250.00 port job with 20% gains


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 28, 2010)

gink595 said:


> Awesome Dude, I really don't care either way. I will pay 250.00 for a port job I have no problems with that. But it better run a chit ton better than a stock saw. I'd feel better about a 90.00 port job with 15% gains than a 250.00 port job with 20% gains



Yeah for sure, I agree and not high expectations.


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## roncoinc (Aug 28, 2010)

gink595 said:


> Awesome Dude, I really don't care either way. I will pay 250.00 for a port job I have no problems with that. But it better run a chit ton better than a stock saw. I'd feel better about a 90.00 port job with 15% gains than a 250.00 port job with 20% gains



OK,,how about TWO $90 port jobs for %30 gain for $180 ??


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 28, 2010)

roncoinc said:


> OK,,how about TWO $90 port jobs for %30 gain for $180 ??



Your a cheeky bugger Ron!


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## teatersroad (Aug 28, 2010)

Since when does what you pay have to do with the quality of the work? In any situation? It might relate to what you expect, but it does not excuse you from being prudent.


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## roncoinc (Aug 28, 2010)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Your a cheeky bugger Ron!



LOL !! just trying to add a little levity to the situation.. 

some personal expectations and opinions are being put forth on this subject.
a lot of them , on either side are well founded in principle also..

I think an interesting thread....................... over all.............
all things considered........................... your milage may vary...........
the opinion posted may not necessarily be that of the poster..
disclaimer follows...










opps,,not here.


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## pwoller (Aug 29, 2010)

teatersroad said:


> Since when does what you pay have to do with the quality of the work? In any situation? It might relate to what you expect, but it does not excuse you from being prudent.



I think they are saying the ammount spent is in direct coralation to the ammount received. In most cases that is.


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## AUSSIE1 (Aug 29, 2010)

There is nothing wrong to ask what work is provided for $90, or the need to get defensive about it. If there is an issue, so be it.


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## gink595 (Aug 29, 2010)

parrisw said:


> if you read what they did for the $120 it did not seem like much. Just said they matched the intake and exhaust.
> 
> 
> So frank what did you pay copesy to do that 7900 of yours?



80.00, it would have ben 120.00 but the a clutch shoe broke when testing and took out the oiler and he wouldn't let me pay to repair it.


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## parrisw (Aug 29, 2010)

Metals406 said:


> Seems to me, whether or not these D&D guys port saws or not, doesn't really effect anyone here at all.
> 
> I can say I port saws with sharpened rabbit turds and it's of no consequence to anyone. . . Everyone will still be able to go to work, breath air, play with their kids, drive their cars.
> 
> ...



Well, you can't blame the bannings on this thread, they can however be blamed on the person himself. You have to take responsibility for oneself.



gink595 said:


> 80.00, it would have ben 120.00 but the a clutch shoe broke when testing and took out the oiler and he wouldn't let me pay to repair it.



$80?? Seriously? I almost find that hard to believe, unless your good at favors.:monkey:


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## gink595 (Aug 29, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Well, you can't blame the bannings on this thread, they can however be blamed on the person himself. You have to take responsibility for oneself.
> 
> 
> 
> $80?? Seriously? I almost find that hard to believe, unless your good at favors.:monkey:



You asked, I told you. No favors to offer either, Nothing I can do that he can't. It is what it is. I told you guys a long time ago he isn't in the buisness to port saws, and that is exactly what he told me


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## parrisw (Aug 29, 2010)

gink595 said:


> You asked, I told you. No favors to offer either, Nothing I can do that he can't. It is what it is. I told you guys a long time ago he isn't in the buisness to port saws, and that is exactly what he told me



Oh, I know that he is not in business for that. Well if ya paid $80 that's a smokin deal.


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## pwoller (Aug 29, 2010)

Someone got band because of this thread?


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## parrisw (Aug 29, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Someone got band because of this thread?



Yes, but it had nothing really to do with this thread. The guy was talking chit about another member.


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## pwoller (Aug 29, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Yes, but it had nothing really to do with this thread. The guy was talking chit about another member.



Must of missed that post.


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## parrisw (Aug 29, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Must of missed that post.



Ya, the guy is a bit of a bonehead, don't worry you didn't miss much.


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## Jacob J. (Aug 30, 2010)

pwoller said:


> I dont know how to explain this to you guys. They spent at least 3 hours going through my saw. Replacing this and that. Then porting, muff modding and advancing the timing. This is a saw shop has been around longer then I've been alive. I hardly think they do subpar work and are still around. Maybe since they know how to mod husky saws and have been doing it so long it doesnt take them as long as the internet porters then they can do it faster. Again if you want to see their work then I'll bring my saw to a gtg and you can investigate.
> 
> The saws they have ported for me run great. I'm just trying to give the original poster an option that is more reasonable then some of the guys on here. I'm not saying they do better work but they do great work for way less.





Banshee said:


> I just want to add, before I go to bed. That this shop has been around for 40 some years. They don't advertist. They only use word of mouth.
> If you go there on a rainy day, when all the loggers aren't cutting, it's nothing to have to wait for hours to get your saws worked on. And that is with 4 guys working on saws.
> They don't like you to leave your saws, if you do it will be months if not a year before you see it again. They only work on saws that are left in their spare time.
> So I never go there unless I have a half day or more to spare.



Is this the shop you guys mentioned in the past that wanted you to run 100 octane or higher gas in the saws they built?


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## Jacob J. (Aug 30, 2010)

gink595 said:


> I wonder how these guys can stay in buisness?
> 
> http://www.2-stroke-porting.com/Port_Work_Pricing.html



Removable head engines are a lot easier to port and map...


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## parrisw (Aug 30, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> Is this the shop you guys mentioned in the past that wanted you to run 100 octane or higher gas in the saws they built?



I'm not 100% sure JJ, but I think I've heard that as well.


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## Jacob J. (Aug 30, 2010)

parrisw said:


> I'm not 100% sure JJ, but I think I've heard that as well.



I have a definite problem with any dealer telling a customer that a "woods ported" saw has to be run on 100 octane or higher gas. That's ridiculous.


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## blsnelling (Aug 30, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> I have a definite problem with any dealer telling a customer that a "woods ported" saw has to be run on 100 octane or higher gas. That's ridiculous.



Jacob, this saw isn't even woods ported. I saw pictures of the cylinder and reported my findings earlier in this thread. Also, nothing has been done to alter compression.


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## gink595 (Aug 30, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> Removable head engines are a lot easier to port and map...



Sure I'll buy that, but we are just talking about woods porting too, not full out race saws with every added extra port there is room for.


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## Jacob J. (Aug 30, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Jacob, this saw isn't even woods ported. I saw pictures of the cylinder and reported my findings earlier in this thread. Also, nothing has been done to alter compression.



Ok, well I wasn't sure if it was the same shop or not. I remember someone bragging about a saw shop in Indiana doing low-cost hotrod woods builds and then telling their customers the saws had to be run on ultra high octane fuel. 



gink595 said:


> Sure I'll buy that, but we are just talking about woods porting too, not full out race saws with every added extra port there is room for.



I know what you mean, but you're comparing apples to oranges.

I won't bicker about what a good woods porting costs, that's completely up to the buyer. As with anything, they should be smart enough to gather intel and shop around. I've seen people clip a 40-cent coupon for a loaf of bread and then turn right around and pay $8-10k in interest to drive a new pickup for two years.


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## parrisw (Aug 30, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> I have a definite problem with any dealer telling a customer that a "woods ported" saw has to be run on 100 octane or higher gas. That's ridiculous.



Ya it sounds a bit funny.



Jacob J. said:


> Ok, well I wasn't sure if it was the same shop or not. I remember someone bragging about a saw shop in Indiana doing low-cost hotrod woods builds and then telling their customers the saws had to be run on ultra high octane fuel.



Ya, I think its the same place, and I think I know who it is, but don't want to name any names, no good can come of it.


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## pwoller (Aug 30, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Ya it sounds a bit funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Ya, I think its the same place, and I think I know who it is, but don't want to name any names, no good can come of it.



Its not D and D. They tune it to whatever you want to run. They did a 372 for me that was tuned to pump gas, the 390 is burning 100LL.


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## pwoller (Aug 30, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Jacob, this saw isn't even woods ported. I saw pictures of the cylinder and reported my findings earlier in this thread. Also, nothing has been done to alter compression.



What is a woods port? Maybe it would help all of those following this thread to define it.


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## tlandrum (Aug 30, 2010)

its evedintly more than what you got.
generally the squish is reduced to give more compression ,either by removing factory gasket and putting in something thinner or by milling the p and c.
the intake and exhaust ports are widened to maximize flow. the timing on the ports may or may not be changed. the transfers could be worked on to flow better .the flywheel timing could be advanced. the carb may get bored. the muffler will be opened up. if i have missed any thing folks feels free to add to this list.


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## blsnelling (Aug 30, 2010)

The bare minimum of a woods port would be to widen the intake and exhaust and set the squish. Additionally, the transfers may be widened, port timing may be altered. The muffler is always modded. Exactly what's done will vary from builder to builder, but the above is the basic recipe. Yes, more may be done, but most anything else would venture outside the realms of a woods port.


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## pwoller (Aug 30, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> The bare minimum of a woods port would be to widen the intake and exhaust and set the squish. Additionally, the transfers may be widened, port timing may be altered. The muffler is always modded. Exactly what's done will vary from builder to builder, but the above is the basic recipe. Yes, more may be done, but most anything else would venture outside the realms of a woods port.



Thanks Brad. But you have to admit there is an awful lot of builder descretion.


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## blsnelling (Aug 30, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Thanks Brad. But you have to admit there is an awful lot of builder descretion.



If the intake and exhaust aren't widened, it's not a woods port, IMHO.


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## pwoller (Aug 30, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> If the intake and exhaust aren't widened, it's not a woods port, IMHO.



I here you, it will be done soon.


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## blsnelling (Aug 30, 2010)

pwoller said:


> I here you, it will be done soon.



Did you resolve you squish questions?


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## pwoller (Aug 30, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Did you resolve you squish questions?



Not yet I'm out of town and am planning on looking into it further on Thursday. Thanks for all the tips so far!


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## parrisw (Aug 31, 2010)

pwoller said:


> I here you, it will be done soon.



Hey, ya know we are here to help. Whatever it is just ask.


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## pwoller (Aug 31, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Hey, ya know we are here to help. Whatever it is just ask.



I appreciate that. And I will.


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## parrisw (Aug 31, 2010)

pwoller said:


> I appreciate that. And I will.



Cool, look forward to seeing your saw.


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## parrisw (Aug 31, 2010)

pwoller said:


> What is a woods port? Maybe it would help all of those following this thread to define it.



A number of us on here do port jobs, not too many actually post builds. I post every one I do, search through the threads I started and you can see what I do for my typical port job. Brad has posted many builds, as well.


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## pwoller (Sep 1, 2010)

Alright guys I have some questions for you. Is a squish of .020 inches too narrow? Are any gains made by smoothing the edges in the crank area where the 2 sides meet?


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## parrisw (Sep 1, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Alright guys I have some questions for you. Is a squish of .020 inches too narrow? Are any gains made by smoothing the edges in the crank area where the 2 sides meet?



.020 is good, that's what I shoot for in all my saws. I wouldn't touch the case's.


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 1, 2010)

20 is prefect, but I've seen closer without issues, and No.


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 1, 2010)

parrisw said:


> .020 is good, that's what I shoot for in all my saws. I wouldn't touch the case's.



Fast on the draw we are lol.


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## pwoller (Sep 1, 2010)

Perfect. Now on the intake there are 2 lines on the top and bottom of the intake. Are they there for a reson or are they casting flaws?


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 1, 2010)

Sounds like casting flaws, I'd clean them up.


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## pwoller (Sep 2, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Sounds like casting flaws, I'd clean them up.



Thats what I thought but they are perfectly spaced 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom.


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2010)

Andyshine77 said:


> Fast on the draw we are lol.



Yup I am LOL.



pwoller said:


> Thats what I thought but they are perfectly spaced 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom.



Yes just a casting line, just clean them up.


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 2, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Thats what I thought but they are perfectly spaced 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom.




That's often what the casting flaws look like.


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## pwoller (Sep 2, 2010)

Alright thanks for all the info so far. On the intake is it good to widen it on the carb side to match the piston side? Or do you go further?


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2010)

pwoller said:


> Alright thanks for all the info so far. On the intake is it good to widen it on the carb side to match the piston side? Or do you go further?



I don't do it since its already well matched to the size of the rubber intake boot.


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## pwoller (Sep 2, 2010)

parrisw said:


> I don't do it since its already well matched to the size of the rubber intake boot.



So just knock off the casting flaws and move on to the exaust port?


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2010)

pwoller said:


> So just knock off the casting flaws and move on to the exaust port?



Yes, but are you going to widen the intake? You widen at the bore, then blend it out. 

I'll give ya another tip. You may want to start another thread on your 390 since this thread is kinda dead. You'll get more help that was as well.


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 2, 2010)

Normally there isn't much room to do on the carb side of the intake. The inside of the cylinder needs to be widened. With most huskys the ring ends are in or near the center of the intake, but some of the newer saws have the ends to the sides of the intake. If this is so you don't want to widen the intake to the point one half of the ring could drop into the port, so take note of the ring end locations. This however is likely not an issue with the 390.


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## pwoller (Sep 2, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Yes, but are you going to widen the intake? You widen at the bore, then blend it out.
> 
> I'll give ya another tip. You may want to start another thread on your 390 since this thread is kinda dead. You'll get more help that was as well.



Good call. I will.


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## little possum (Sep 2, 2010)

Not trying to start stuff, but what was done at the saw shop for the 90$?

And good luck with the porting, I hope to start soon..


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## timberwolf (Sep 2, 2010)

> Normally there isn't much room to do on the carb side of the intake. The inside of the cylinder needs to be widened. With most huskys the ring ends are in or near the center of the intake, but some of the newer saws have the ends to the sides of the intake.



Most of the huskies run the rings above the the intake so the rings don't get to the intake even at BDC. I am not sure on some of the newest huskies, but pretty much all the older ones were like that. 

Ring end pins can be moved, not the sort of thing found on $90 port jobs or even typical $250 jobs. But when performance is measured on a stop watch then it can be worth while.


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2010)

timberwolf said:


> Most of the huskies run the rings above the the intake so the rings don't get to the intake even at BDC. I am not sure on some of the newest huskies, but pretty much all the older ones were like that.
> 
> Ring end pins can be moved, not the sort of thing found on $90 port jobs or even typical $250 jobs. But when performance is measured on a stop watch then it can be worth while.



Yes. I've never had a problem with ring ends on Husky's.


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Yes. I've never had a problem with ring ends on Husky's.



The 372XPG has one ring end toward the center, and one off to the side of the intake like a Stihl. You have to be careful on that one side.


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Sep 2, 2010)

*I'll be answering pm's though, some good folk here.*



parrisw said:


> Well, you can't blame the bannings on this thread, they can however be blamed on the person himself. You have to take responsibility for oneself.
> 
> 
> 
> $80?? Seriously? I almost find that hard to believe, unless your good at favors.:monkey:



 The president of the CAMEL TOE CLUB™ has spokenumpkin2:

You're such a wuss it's not even funny. I'll pose the same question to you that I posed to troutcherry. How about a build off over at RS and the winner keeps the saws? Let's make it interesting. Brand new saws.

As for you, you need the most attention:hmm3grin2orange:

BS'n on a testing jug that has shotty intake work for $200 is a joke, and to top it all off, to complain about a shop's credibility. I could care less if I get banned, I just wanted to be up front. You fools haven't been angels yourselves.

Now I'm part of the EVIL EMPIRE KLOWN™ crew ready to throw a heist on some stock jugs:smoking:

LATER DAYS!


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## Tzed250 (Sep 2, 2010)

.

Where is Michael Buffer when you need him...

.


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2010)

CHEVYTOWN13; said:


> I'll pose the same question to you that I posed to troutcherry. How about a build off over at RS and the winner keeps the saws? Let's make it interesting. Brand new saws.



Ya that one worked out real well for ya didn't it? You only made yourself look like a fool when you challanged troutfisher. 

Let me guess the rules the same as when you challanged him? No machine work cause you can't do it? And no chain cause you can't sharpen a chain worth a chit. A stock saw with a decent chain will beat your ported crap with your crap chains.


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## troutfisher (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks for the kind words Parrisw. 

Hi Chevytown13, since you brought up my username I'll respond. I'm glad your porting is going well and you're proud of your work. I wish you all the best - Aric


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2010)

I'll have to find some better bits for my router before I can enter this competition. Not sure I can compete.:monkey:


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## pwoller (Sep 2, 2010)

The ring pins are inside the port . Offset but still in the port. Widen away?


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2010)

pwoller said:


> The ring pins are inside the port . Offset but still in the port. Widen away?



Ummm? How do you mean inside the port? Any pics?


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## troutfisher (Sep 2, 2010)

If you drop a ring end into the intake port.....K-Boom. I've had rind ends ride over boost ports or finger ports and they run fine, but those ports arn't wide enough to let the ring bulge out into the port. An intake or exhaust port is.


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## mdavlee (Sep 2, 2010)

I think he meant that it won't be on the edge. Here's a picture of a 390 piston showing the ring ends.


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## Mastermind (Sep 2, 2010)

I have to throw out a question, as I don't have all the answers. lol

I'm building a 036 and would like to widen the upper transfers toward the intake some. As most of you cats probably know the second (lower) ring end is in this area. My question is this, what about removing this ring???


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> I have to throw out a question, as I don't have all the answers. lol
> 
> I'm building a 036 and would like to widen the upper transfers toward the intake some. As most of you cats probably know the second (lower) ring end is in this area. My question is this, what about removing this ring???



Yes you can do that, and yes it's been done. I've never done it, so I'm not speaking from experience.


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## Mastermind (Sep 2, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Yes you can do that, and yes it's been done. I've never done it, so I'm not speaking from experience.



I've not done it before either Will, but have seen it done on other's builds. I'm just looking for a discussion on the subject. Thanks for replying.


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## Metals406 (Sep 2, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> I've not done it before either Will, but have seen it done on other's builds. I'm just looking for a discussion on the subject. Thanks for replying.



Can you run the piston backwards? If the ring ends have support (on the cylinder wall) when flipped around, I say do that instead.

I ported a 66 that upper transfer work was catching ring ends. . . Flipping solved it, and I got to keep my fancy transfer work.


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## parrisw (Sep 3, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> I've not done it before either Will, but have seen it done on other's builds. I'm just looking for a discussion on the subject. Thanks for replying.



I don't think its a big deal, lots of saws only have 1 ring. Al does it all the time.


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## Metals406 (Sep 3, 2010)

parrisw said:


> I don't think its a big deal, lots of saws only have 1 ring. Al does it all the time.



:agree2:

Lots of one-ringers out there for sure. . . But I heard JJ say something the other day about two rings having more longevity -- made sense to me.


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## parrisw (Sep 3, 2010)

Metals406 said:


> :agree2:
> 
> Lots of one-ringers out there for sure. . . But I heard JJ say something the other day about two rings having more longevity -- made sense to me.



Yes they do. Better heat transfer for one. So your saw will run cooler. But if your modding your saw anyway, your not concerned about getting a couple thousand hours out of it.


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## Metals406 (Sep 3, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Yes they do. Better heat transfer for one. So your saw will run cooler. But if your modding your saw anyway, you're not concerned about getting a couple thousand hours out of it.



Hell, I sure am!! I'm a cheapo and want all the hours I can get!!!


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Sep 3, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Yes they do. Better heat transfer for one. So your saw will run cooler. But if your modding your saw anyway, your not concerned about getting a couple thousand hours out of it.



i'm new = ignorant but i have read that a well ported "woods port" can last around as long as a stock saw. do you feel this is true? and why or why not?
thanks very much


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## Jacob J. (Sep 3, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Yes they do. Better heat transfer for one. So your saw will run cooler. But if your modding your saw anyway, your not concerned about getting a couple thousand hours out of it.



I've gotten a couple thousand hours out of quite a few modded saws. Saws that were run hard, 6-7 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. 



Metals406 said:


> Hell, I sure am!! I'm a cheapo and want all the hours I can get!!!



Me too. I run both rings on all dual-ring piston engines I have. Those that originally came with one ring, I usually convert to two. I'd rather not have to tear a saw down every 5-600 hours.


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## Metals406 (Sep 3, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> I've gotten a couple thousand hours out of quite a few modded saws. Saws that were run hard, 6-7 hours a day, 6-7 days a week.
> 
> 
> 
> Me too. I run both rings on all dual-ring piston engines I have. Those that originally came with one ring, I usually convert to two. I'd rather not have to tear a saw down every 5-600 hours.


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## parrisw (Sep 3, 2010)

Metals406 said:


> Hell, I sure am!! I'm a cheapo and want all the hours I can get!!!



ha ha ha. 



chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i'm new = ignorant but i have read that a well ported "woods port" can last around as long as a stock saw. do you feel this is true? and why or why not?
> thanks very much



Yes your right, properly taken care of. Use good mix, and clean good filters. Things you must understand though is that producing more power out of the same size package = more strain on things.



Jacob J. said:


> I've gotten a couple thousand hours out of quite a few modded saws. Saws that were run hard, 6-7 hours a day, 6-7 days a week.
> 
> 
> 
> Me too. I run both rings on all dual-ring piston engines I have. Those that originally came with one ring, I usually convert to two. I'd rather not have to tear a saw down every 5-600 hours.



Good to hear JJ, I just don't care as much because it'll take me a long bloody time to put 2 thousand hours on a saw.

I always run 2 rings as well.


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## Tzed250 (Sep 3, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> I've gotten a couple thousand hours out of quite a few modded saws. Saws that were run hard, 6-7 hours a day, 6-7 days a week.
> 
> 
> 
> Me too. I run both rings on all dual-ring piston engines I have. Those that originally came with one ring, I usually convert to two. I'd rather not have to tear a saw down every 5-600 hours.





Competition----1 ring

Production----2 rings


.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Sep 3, 2010)

parrisw said:


> Yes your right, properly taken care of. Use good mix, and clean good filters. Things you must understand though is that producing more power out of the same size package = more strain on things.



gotcha, thanks


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## Mastermind (Sep 3, 2010)

Metals406 said:


> Can you run the piston backwards? If the ring ends have support (on the cylinder wall) when flipped around, I say do that instead.
> 
> I ported a 66 that upper transfer work was catching ring ends. . . Flipping solved it, and I got to keep my fancy transfer work.



I haven' looked at that yet, but the thought has been on my mind as well. I have the saw together for a run in and well pull it down soon. We'll find out then. Thanks for the reply, that is a great idea.


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## AUSSIE1 (Sep 4, 2010)

5-600 hrs? I'll keep running one ring! 

My 371 ran one ring from the factory for eleven years and still looks healthy. That'll do me!


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## Chesterewers (Feb 7, 2011)

parrisw said:


> ha ha, i guess I'm stupid then. WTF do I know.
> 
> 
> How the hell can a shop make any money charging out $30 per hour


 
same way every one does, its easy child labor, thats how we cut costs and build industries that drive this nation.


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