# Borate treating of boards



## Barthaigh (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi, I have been cutting allot of boards this year and they are presently air drying. I am concerned about powder post beetles and other insects. I was wondering if anyone is pre-treating fresh sawn lumber with Timbor borate solution to keep down insects and control of some fungus. If you have used this product when do you put it on the wood, fresh cut or let it dry for a period of time then apply it so it soaks in better. Anyone with any thoughts on this or tips on using it? thanks, bart


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## Trever (Feb 28, 2012)

*Timbor*

Can't wait to hear some input; been thinking about treating some lumber myself. Thanks Bart for the thread.

Trever


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## Talltom (Feb 28, 2012)

I have a lot of problems with borers and use Timbor quite a bit. I usually plane the boards first and wait a couple days for the surface to dry before applying the Timbor (2 applications). Timbor will not penetrate deeply into the wood - it's more of a surface treatment. Boracare is borate with glycol and will penetrate deeper but is much more expensive. Borates kill the borers as they eat the treated lumber so they do more for preventing reinfestation than quickly killing current infestation. Only relaible way to kill existing borers is heat (kiln drying). Existence of holes does not mean you have an active infestation. Some types infest only high MC wood and die as the wood dries. Lack of holes doesn't mean you don't have an infestation. Check for piles of sawdust from tiny holes and treat the wood if you see them. Lots of info on borers and borates on the web. Check out Do Your Own Pest Control.


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## Barthaigh (Feb 28, 2012)

Thanks Talltom for the info. I wonder if adding glycol to Timbor might make it work better. I have accessability to chemicals due to my work as a protein scientist. I will have to check into the MSDS info for Boracare. I like your idea about letting it dry some but I was surprised by the two treatment method. Do you think it is necessary to do the two treatments as opposed to one heavy treatment? thanks for the info, Bart


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## Talltom (Feb 28, 2012)

You can mix the Timbor to a higher concentration for a single application but it won't stay in solution so you have to use it all. Even with the lower solution you tend to get some borates precipitating out of solution, especially if dust gets in the mix. I usually spray with garden sprayer & backbrush to minimize contamination. Don't know what is involved with creating the glycol solution, but I assume it isn't that easy since it is so much more expensive, both for Boracare and competing products.


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## MCW (Feb 29, 2012)

Another suggestion would be Bifenthrin (a relatively safe synthetic pyrethroid) mixed with oil. However this will only give you about 15 years so may not be what you're after. Bifenthrin knocks the crap out of any Coleoptera species (Beetles and Weevils).


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## logbob (Mar 3, 2012)

I have used both Timbor and Boracare - I have mixed both myself since in Europe they are not available.
I was much happier with Boracare for the reason that it penetrates the wood deeper and faster than Timbor, and because the finish is better. Without glycol after some months you will have the tiny salt crystals resurface on the wood, and they are visible under the clear topcoat. Not that nice.

You can make your own borate soution following the instructions at this link.
Chemotherapy for Rot
It will be MUCH cheaper than buying the stuff.
If you use ethilene for a glycol do not breath the fumes as you boil the mixture.
I DO NOT recommend using antifreeze for glycols. Antifreeze contains antioxidants that will retard the absorption of the mixture and take MANY days to dry.
If you work with chemicals you can get pure Ethilene Glycol or Polietilene Glycol or Propilene Glycol for cheap. 
I do not work in chemicals but still have no problems buying the stuff in 1 gallon pails, at the same chemical wholesaler where I buy the Borax and Boric Acid.

Ethilene glycol is not that bad as you will read on the internet UNLESS YOU EAT IT OR DRINK IT. The other two - Propilene and Polietilene - they are used also in the food industry, so they are safe. However since ethilene is a boicide it will add to the borates to control the pests, be it insects or molds and mildews.
So if you don't have problems with pets or kids gnawing at your cants ethilene is the more effective glycol to use on INFESTED wood. But for prevention it is not really needed, so just be on the safe side and go with one of the other two.

I always spray the logs or cants (or whatever wood has to be stocked for long periods) with Boracare. 
Boracare is just as good (or possibly even better) sprayed on green wood, because borates love water and therefore will spread into the wood faster and more evenly when the wood has high moisture content. Wetting dry wood before applying boracare is not recommended.
Any wood treated with borates will either have to be stored in a dry place or coated with a film forming finish to prevent borates from being washed away by the rain.

As to pyrethroids. They are very effective at killing the pests, but they are more dangerous to mammals (lethal to cats), so I would not recommend the use of phiretroids unless you are in need to remove the pest more than preventing reinfestation. Also phyretroids are not as good as borates at preventing reinfestation.
I have once added permethrin to an ETHILENE glycol borate solution to treat a log staircase that was BADLY infested with wood borers. That mixture did an EXCELLENT job.
So it can be done and it works, but it's not what you need unless you have a really bad case.


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## MCW (Mar 5, 2012)

logbob said:


> As to pyrethroids. They are very effective at killing the pests, but they are more dangerous to mammals (lethal to cats), so I would not recommend the use of phiretroids unless you are in need to remove the pest more than preventing reinfestation. Also phyretroids are not as good as borates at preventing reinfestation.
> I have once added permethrin to an ETHILENE glycol borate solution to treat a log staircase that was BADLY infested with wood borers. That mixture did an EXCELLENT job.
> So it can be done and it works, but it's not what you need unless you have a really bad case.



Actually synthetic pyrethroids are quite toxic to mammals (far more than people realise) but only when ingested. The LD50 is quite high on ingestion with Bifenthrin.
Once dry it is VERY safe for mammals and in horticultural use only has a one day withold period on most fruit and vegetables. I work and advise on the use of insecticides every day including Bifenthrin, Permethrin, and Deltamethrin.
Although I'm not exactly sure on the toxicity of the borate solution you're using I'm sure it is very effective and your mixture sounds good


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## StinkyBunny (Mar 11, 2012)

I use a dead sea salt, kosher salt and borax for long term storage of red oak. I don't know if it would be suitable in this application, but it keeps toothy critters off my firewood. I have it on a few of the logs I'm going to mill this fall.
2 lb kosher salt
1 lb dead sea salt
1 box 20 Mule Team Borax
5 gallons of water

Spray on the wood liberally.

You can get the dead sea salts from Mountain Rose Herbs, Bulk organic herbs, spices & essential oils from Mountain Rose Herbs . I've been thinking about trying Epsom salts instead of the dead sea salts.


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## scallywag (Mar 23, 2018)

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## earlthegoat2 (Mar 23, 2018)

I have used Timbor for my air drying lumber. We have really bad termites here so I get paranoid about them. In addition to the Timbor treatment I trench and treat every building on my property with Termidor. I spray for general bugs (mainly roaches, ants, and that such) once a month with either Bifen, Permethrin, Suspend, or a Lambda Cy type product. My point is, don't just treat your lumber if you are concerned about bugs. Treat everything you legally can.


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## koza (Aug 10, 2019)

logbob said:


> I have used both Timbor and Boracare - I have mixed both myself since in Europe they are not available."



Hello, I am also in Europe and can not find Boracare. When you say you have mixed it yourself, do you mean the mixture you describe below - borate plus glycol?


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## devonhubb (Aug 10, 2019)

I have had good luck with just 20 mule team borax mixed with water. My slabs are stacked under a shed, so are somewhat protected from rain. Untreated slabs look like swiss cheese. Borax treated slabs are not infested. This is with white oak slabs.


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## csmillingnoob (Aug 19, 2019)

devonhubb said:


> I have had good luck with just 20 mule team borax mixed with water. My slabs are stacked under a shed, so are somewhat protected from rain. Untreated slabs look like swiss cheese. Borax treated slabs are not infested. This is with white oak slabs.



I am using 20 Mule Team Borax on a pecan stack that is also "somewhat" protected from rain. So far so good but I'm only down to about 23% MC. I have heard (but do not know it to be true) that beetles don't really like pecan until it gets down to around this level. Watching close and hoping. If iany beetles show up, I guess I'll pickup some straight boric acid or timbor


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