# PowerSharp!!!!



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

A week or two ago, PowerSharp Engineer sent me a couple of his new
PowerSharp chain/bar systems, on the provision I use them to cut my 
winter's firewood with them, and document the results, honestly.

Brutally, as is my way........

He didn't want me to run out and cut a few slabs and then get bored and lay it into some concrete real quick to test out the sharpening feature.


----------



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

He contacted me via the p.m. feature, with his proposal. He was planning to send me one for a Poulan 18" mount,
the other for a smaller 021-025 Stihl mount in an 18 lo pro as well.

I thought "great", I have plenty Stihl carcasses about, I will get one of them up and running.

It turns out, I got 2 18" Poulan mounts, with the 62 d.l. lo pro mounts.

Which is why it took me a week or two to scramble to fin a decent saw for
the test.


----------



## ale (Sep 15, 2010)

looks pretty nice to me...


----------



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

Luckily I came upon a PP295, so I grabbed it. I am concerned that the saw
may be too big, and skew the results somehow, as it came with a .325
originally, had to get the parts to fix, and a 3/8 lo/pro sprocket.


----------



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

So in the next week or two, I will take it out to cut some wood, and take 
some silly pics. May bring it to a local gtg if there are any close, so guys can
take a movie clip or two.

We must commend Oregon, however, for their desire to find out real
input from customers, as I am not known for "sucking up".

Every year I go to the "EXPO", and one thing is common, those people do not want any input from customers, dealers, or distributors, so Oregon's
openness is refreshing, and an oppertunity for all of us to discuss.
So everyone's input is wanted and sought, so speak up guys


----------



## JustinM (Sep 15, 2010)

Cool.

I saw these at the local canadian tire the other day & while I cant see myself ever using one, i do think there's a real niche if the thing works properly. My dad, bless his heart, cant sharpen a chain to save his life. I secretly sneak down to his garage to sharpen his when Im over for a visit  Thankfully he doesnt cut a lot of wood


----------



## brokenbudget (Sep 15, 2010)

the only person who should be speaking up is you, fish. i think you're the only one with that set-up at the moment i can't give you any real opinion on them but if they are like the last few attempts it won't be long until we hear about the stone flying across the yard or how many teeth it chewed off the chain.
this does look like a better system though. at least it isn't a part of the saw thats going to be replaced by a rubber plug.


----------



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

Here is the saw I plan to use, the bar adjust system was stripped out, and the replacement cost was high, so I just ground out some plastic, got a
bar adjustment screw, and put in another bar nut.







So I think it will be a decent test saw.

My first questions that came up were:

That seems like a lot of stone, how many chains can it sharpen????

The chisel looks small, how will it last, longevitywise????

The instructions say, one chain, one stone...

The other question, we will see........


----------



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

brokenbudget said:


> the only person who should be speaking up is you, fish. i think you're the only one with that set-up at the moment i can't give you any real opinion on them but if they are like the last few attempts it won't be long until we hear about the stone flying across the yard or how many teeth it chewed off the chain.
> this does look like a better system though. at least it isn't a part of the saw thats going to be replaced by a rubber plug.



The sharpening stone is real solid, and likely the most expensive part of the system, looks designed well in that area.

I am sure that it has been examined hard "liabilitywise".


----------



## JustinM (Sep 15, 2010)

Fish said:


> The sharpening stone is real solid, and likely the most expensive part of the system, looks designed well in that area.
> 
> I am sure that it has been examined hard "liabilitywise".



UP here (at canadian tire at least) it looks like they sell the stone with a chain (cant buy them separately?) for $36 canadian. A bar (with the mount sharpener) is $42. 

So about $80 to get set up & then $36 each time for chain/stone. Not too bad I guess.


----------



## CGC4200 (Sep 15, 2010)

*How much of an expensive PITA will this system be?*

It will probably have to be modified, like the AVX system.
Poulan tried it once upon a time, most have been removed for filing.
I like the KISS solution, keep it simple stupid.


----------



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

Looks like they have kept it "very" simple..


----------



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

A chain with a built in sharpening system is an attractive feature to someone
that buys a chain for $20, and pays 6-10$ per sharpening, so I can see the
math making sense for a large cross-section of the customers involved.

You saw-nuts are in a minority/thank GOD!!!!!

Or else the world would end sooner than expected!!!!!


----------



## barneyrb (Sep 15, 2010)

Fish, do ya a muff mod on that 295 and that'll wake it up quite a bit.


----------



## WetGunPowder (Sep 15, 2010)

Sent one out the other day on a DOLMAR 420. Looks to be a decent set-up for the average homeowner who is not handy with a file. Sold it to an above average guy who should have a good report on it (good or bad) Will keep you posted.


----------



## discounthunter (Sep 15, 2010)

JustinM said:


> UP here (at canadian tire at least) it looks like they sell the stone with a chain (cant buy them separately?) for $36 canadian. A bar (with the mount sharpener) is $42.
> 
> So about $80 to get set up & then $36 each time for chain/stone. Not too bad I guess.



for under $36 dolars you can buy 2 regular chains. just switch them out when they get dull. 

my concern is it doesnt look like a lot of meat on those teeth.


----------



## BobL (Sep 15, 2010)

The sharpening action on this setup doesn't look right to me. It will work for a while but eventually no amount of sharpening is gonna prevent that design making more and more dust.

On this system the raker depth is created by the neat trick of using a curved sharpening stone but as the cutter wears what this effectively generates a relatively higher raker depth whereas what is needed is a relatively lower raker depth. 
WHY?
As the cutter wears, the distance between the cutter tip and the raker gets longer which means the cutting angle ( angle described by raker top, cutter tip and wood) will decrease so as the cutter wears it will reduce the bite it can make and generate increasingly finer shavings so the cutting speed will drop and chain will go blunter faster. This will lead to the user sharpening more often, (and sure it will cut again for ever decreasing amounts of time) until they give up and go buy another chain. 

Eventually the stone will also wear generating a larger radius sharpening surface which compounds the problem and also means it will be less effective on a new chain, the consumer then has to then buy a new stone.

In addition it sharpens by reducing cutter height (versus cutter length) which means it reduces gullet depth so the gullet cannot carry as much wood chip. This means the gullet will fill up quickly further reducing cutting speeds.

I could be completely wrong but it sounds like yet again an all round perfect product for the manufacturer.

Fish, when you test this out it would be interesting to know how far down the cutters can be sharpened before you give up on it. Also don't just sharpen and cut for a few minutes. Sharpen and then cut for at least a tankful or, to simulate the average woodcutter, 5 tankfuls. Once the cutter has worn some I reckon you will be seriously frustrated before you get to the second tank.

Also, if the engineer wants it tested in some real wood tell him to send some to an Aussie woodcutter.


----------



## CGC4200 (Sep 15, 2010)

*Fish, how did the chicken thing work out?*

I saw a sign for free roosters last week; I made one of my old buds aware,
looked like they would make chicken & dumplings in a pot or fit in a grill.


----------



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

barneyrb said:


> Fish, do ya a muff mod on that 295 and that'll wake it up quite a bit.



Wake it up????

It already thinks it is a Pee-yellow Husqvarna!!!!!!


----------



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

BobL said:


> The sharpening action on this setup doesn't look right to me. It will work for a while but eventually no amount of sharpening is gonna prevent that design cutting more and more dust.
> 
> On this system the raker depth is created by the neat trick of using a curved sharpening stone but as the cutter wears what this effectively generate a relatively lower raker depth whereas what is needed is a relatively higher raker depth.
> WHY?
> ...



On another thread I remember he discussed the physics of the raker dressing.

It says explicitly that one chain, one stone, which explains the expense....

I will cut with it and bump this thread a lot!!!!!


----------



## Rounder (Sep 15, 2010)

Fish said:


> On another thread I remember he discussed the physics of the raker dressing.
> 
> It says explicitly that one chain, one stone, which explains the expense....
> 
> I will cut with it and bump this thread a lot!!!!!



Thanks fish, I was thinking about mentioning this doohickey to my dad, if it works, it'd be perfect for folks like him that rarely use a saw, but can't keep it out of the dirt when they do - Sam


----------



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

Oregon's target group is definitely not us, but the group of folks that are
sick of paying 10$ plus to sharpen a 16-20$ Chain, so a fair evaluation of the
system is needed.

Which, as all of you all should know, the Powersharp system will get......


----------



## Woodcutteranon (Sep 15, 2010)

I was at a seminar today held by a Game Of Logging safety instructor and he was showing us how this thing worked. He had his set up on a Dolmar 420 and he ran the chain in the dirt until it wouldn't cut. He slapped on the sharpener, threw some sparks, and put the saw back into the wood. It cut like a new chain. I would think a homeowner would find utility in it. I think the price was around $70 for the bar, one chain, and the sharpener.


----------



## BobL (Sep 15, 2010)

Fish said:


> On another thread I remember he discussed the physics of the raker dressing. It says explicitly that one chain, one stone, which explains the expense....


Wow!



Fish said:


> Oregon's target group is definitely not us, but the group of folks that are sick of paying 10$ plus to sharpen a 16-20$ Chain, so a fair evaluation of the system is needed.


Ok that makes sense. 
Although I have a bit of concern that once 90% of chain sold is either safety or powersharp, or something similar regular chain could become more expensive. 



> Which, as all of you all should know, the Powersharp system will get......


Onya fish!


----------



## Fish (Sep 15, 2010)

I bought on to this cruise as an outsider as well, so we will check it out fresh.

Any posts here will be welcomed, I am just a fat mechanic, who wants my
winter wood supply as easy/cheap as I can get...

So my use of this bar/chain system will be on the beginner level, even though
I know of all of the variables.

But I pledge to be fair....

Luckily he sent an 18 inch system, as I am to fat to bend over........

Seriously, I will be brutally honest, as I expect all of you guys to be as well.....


----------



## alderman (Sep 15, 2010)

It appears to be very simple to operate according to their video. 
Like mentioned before, cost prohibitive to anyone capable of doing their own sharpening.

My concern is all the sparks created. I can see these being banned by Smokey the bear.


By the way, I've no rep left but this is a product I've been wondering about. Good thread Fish.


----------



## rmh3481 (Sep 16, 2010)

Fish,
Is there some kind of link in the chain that re-adjusts the stone as it wears? Thanks,
Bob


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 16, 2010)

Looks like a bad idea that went wrong to me, but I have no evidense....


----------



## Fish (Sep 16, 2010)

rmh3481 said:


> Fish,
> Is there some kind of link in the chain that re-adjusts the stone as it wears? Thanks,
> Bob



No, the stone is fixed, and can go on only one way. No adjusting, but one stone, one chain.


----------



## Diesel Pro (Sep 16, 2010)

Fish said:


> Oregon's target group is definitely not us, but the group of folks that are
> sick of paying 10$ plus to sharpen a 16-20$ Chain, so a fair evaluation of the
> system is needed.
> 
> Which, as all of you all should know, the Powersharp system will get......





One suggestion that I would have is that you find a friend/neighbor/relative who fits the target consumer profile and under your watchful eye have him/her operate the equipment.


----------



## Fish (Sep 16, 2010)

Actually, I would fit the target fairly well. I only cut what I need for firewood
for myself, and otherwise rarely use a saw. 
I do fix them and sharpen them, but my use of one would mimic the average
consumer.

Actually, the thought of not having to remove the chain, take it down
and leave it at the local lawnmower shop, and hope they sharpen it correctly
sometime in the next week or so, is quite appealing.
Even more so if their charges approach the $10 range.

Just snapping on the old yellow sharpening thingamajig, and sharpening
the chain while you are still out in the field, well, I can see the appeal.


----------



## Diesel Pro (Sep 16, 2010)

I'm anxious to see how this works. I can do my own, but my Brother has no clue. Truth of the matter is what I should probably do is buy a new Husqy 435 and powersharp setup and keep it at the cabin then pass on Dad's old saws to someone with more time/patience than money. That way there would always be a running saw at the cabin if I did not have mine along. Add to that-easily sharpened...

I'll also be curious to hear how cut times compare to a properly sharpened "regular" chain to see what if any penalty there is.


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Sep 16, 2010)

Here's another thread about POWERSHARP.

It answers a lot of the questions being asked on this thread.


----------



## Fish (Sep 16, 2010)

manyhobies said:


> Here's another thread about POWERSHARP.
> 
> It answers a lot of the questions being asked on this thread.



I realize the topic has been hashed some before, but I chose to start a seperate one, for the reasons I noted in the first few posts.

If the powers that be wish to merge them, that is OK as well.

I was going to go out and cut with it tonight, but Favio died sudddenly,
and I had to make arrangements..........

He was one famous rooster, everyone for miles around knew his name......


----------



## MacLaren (Sep 17, 2010)

Fish said:


> I realize the topic has been hashed some before, but I chose to start a seperate one, for the reasons I noted in the first few posts.
> 
> If the powers that be wish to merge them, that is OK as well.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about your rooster. But, shoot yeah bro just keep truckin.your doin a great job man. I dont care if theres another thread or not. ive been very interested since you started this thread, as I know you will have a very unbiased honest opinion/report. **and thats NOT to say the other data/thread/posts/whatever werent. Heck, its just good interesting fun reading.. Press on my good man!:computer:


----------



## heimannm (Sep 17, 2010)

I will mention one item I saw in another thread (hope I remember this correctly)...the new power sharp system features a carbide tip cutter every so often that keeps the stone true and square.

Did I get that right?

Mark


----------



## WetGunPowder (Sep 17, 2010)

heimannm said:


> I will mention one item I saw in another thread (hope I remember this correctly)...the new power sharp system features a carbide tip cutter every so often that keeps the stone true and square.
> 
> Did I get that right?
> 
> Mark



There is one link on the chain with carbide on it the dresses the stone. YOU ARE CORRECT SIR!!!


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Sep 17, 2010)

manyhobies said:


> Here's another thread about POWERSHARP.
> 
> It answers a lot of the questions being asked on this thread.





Fish said:


> I realize the topic has been hashed some before, but I chose to start a seperate one, for the reasons I noted in the first few posts.
> 
> If the powers that be wish to merge them, that is OK as well.
> 
> ...



Fish

I thought that I'd link the other thread so the others that haven't read it can get up to speed. No way am I saying that there shouldn't be another thread.

I like what you're doing with the PS!

PS engineer......I'd be willing to test PS too.


----------



## Jaberwky (Sep 18, 2010)

Fish said:


> Actually, I would fit the target fairly well. I only cut what I need for firewood
> for myself, and otherwise rarely use a saw.
> I do fix them and sharpen them, but my use of one would mimic the average
> consumer.
> ...



I'm not sure if I technically fit the demographic but I only cut once a year. I used to be the guy who kept three chains in rotation and dropped them off to be sharpened. Once I figured out the advantage of hand sharpening I have done so. Now I enjoy sharpening and can't imagine using a tool like this and not having that hands on relationship with the chain. It may sound odd but I feel like it's a craft. I'd hate to trade that for a curvy stone.


----------



## Zombiechopper (Sep 18, 2010)

What happens when Bubba and Joey-one-tooth decide they ain't gonna spend no money on the special chain and they stick in a loop of regular dagular chain?
Will it be sparkly? Will it be high velocity shrapnel? I must know this....

only one way Fish. 


Sorry to hear about your rooster. I hope he wasn't too tough after doin all that hard work. Was he the foreman? I can't remember.


----------



## Modifiedmark (Sep 18, 2010)

Fish said:


> Oregon's target group is definitely not us, but the group of folks that are
> sick of paying 10$ plus to sharpen a 16-20$ Chain, so a fair evaluation of the
> system is needed.
> 
> Which, as all of you all should know, the Powersharp system will get......



I agree that alot of folks here won't understand the need for something like this, but I think it's a great idea and hope it works out well. 

The price is not really a concern. When people have to take a chain in to be sharpend, they have already rounded a chain cutter halfway back so how much of that chain do you think will be left when it is put on the machine to sharpen it? 

Do you think that most shops will take the time to dress a raker down when they sharpen a whole pile of chains laying there? 

Even if that chain only cuts 3/4's as good as a regular chain, if it cuts the same all the time, ,they will much better off then running there regular chain so dull they cant cut anyway. 

Why do you think you see so many inexpensive saws burnt up and laying in the junk now?


----------



## Edge & Engine (Sep 18, 2010)

heimannm said:


> I will mention one item I saw in another thread (hope I remember this correctly)...the new power sharp system features a carbide tip cutter every so often that keeps the stone true and square.
> 
> Did I get that right?
> 
> Mark



It's actually a Diamond tipped cutter dressing link.


----------



## Gypo Logger (Sep 18, 2010)

Looks like a good cutter and design, however, I think it will fail as it's designed for Harry the Home Owner.
What happens when the bar groove becomes worn and the chain is flopping around in the bar like a wet dish rag? It's doesn't look ID10T proof to me. Lol
John


----------



## Fish (Sep 18, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> Looks like a good cutter and design, however, I think it will fail as it's designed for Harry the Home Owner.
> What happens when the bar groove becomes worn and the chain is flopping around in the bar like a wet dish rag? It's doesn't look ID10T proof to me. Lol
> John



Well, here is a pic or two of the dressing link, it should dress squarely/
relatively, the worn bar/floppy scenario could be applied to a lot of
possible long term problems.


----------



## Fish (Sep 19, 2010)

Still been real busy, but took Powersharp over to the field. Had to use my Echo trimmer to find the old wood, and I have to admit. Out of the box, that
chain did some serious rippin'.

I was impressed, much faster than new Oregon 91/Stihl Picco.








Went through it real quick, must have hit some dirt on the last cut......


----------



## Fish (Sep 19, 2010)

OOOOOPPPSSS....


----------



## 7sleeper (Sep 28, 2010)

Hey Fish 

Any updates? Great pics. Can't wait to see your first video cutting. 

7


----------



## thomas72 (Sep 28, 2010)

You are suppose to file the gullets out of the cutters by hand as they wear. You had to do that on the first generation and the chain does not look like it has changed much.


----------



## PLMCRZY (Sep 29, 2010)

Looks like a great system, I do not fell huge trees nor do i use a saw all day. I think this would be great to have.


----------



## DaltonPaull (Oct 8, 2010)

Something like this would actually be pretty cool on an Alaskan mill. You could touch up the chain part way through a long cut without even taking the saw out of the cut.

Not that I see it becoming practical or cost effective for that application, but it would be nice.

When is the .404 version coming out?


----------



## Fish (Oct 31, 2010)

I apologize to the forum and the Oregon guys, due to hard economic times I
have taken employment at other places, and have invested many hours.

I cut some wood with the Powersharp system on my Poulan Pro, and it
cut great until I hit some dirt, and the cutting slowed.

I quickly perused the instructions, and "sharpened" the chain, and went to
cut, and it cut much better, but not as good as new.

I was going to post my results, but I was not sure of my "procedure".

Being October, and the Expo being in October, I thought I would wait, and
talk to the Oregon guys at the Expo,, and I did.

I stopped at the outdoor booth, and quizzed them on sharpening.

The guys convinced me that I was way too mousey on my tecnique, That I
should rev the saw to full rpms, then depress the plunger device, and count a full 4 seconds after seeing sparks. They did this for the crowd, and the chain cut good again, putting out decent chips.

I took some pics of them, as I have no friends to take pix of me.....

Here is a pic of the guy sharpening, right after cutting that groove in the
top of that cinder block.


----------



## Fish (Oct 31, 2010)

Here is a pic of a newish chain beside of a "worn" chain.


----------



## lawnmowertech37 (Oct 31, 2010)

Fish said:


> I apologize to the forum and the Oregon guys, due to hard economic times I
> have taken employment at other places, and have invested many hours.
> 
> I cut some wood with the Powersharp system on my Poulan Pro, and it
> ...



fish when were you at the oregon booth ?


----------



## mtngun (Oct 31, 2010)

Thanks for the update, Fish. We can totally understand about the job situation.


----------



## Fish (Nov 3, 2010)

I was at the Expo on Friday.






Here is a poor pic of a stone that has sharpened out most of the life out of a chain, it was grooved out pretty deep.

I was amazed about how brutal those guys were with the chain, and how durable it was. 

He cut a deep groove in the cinder block, all the way across the top, and 
cut with it, and it was obviously dull. He then put the stone on, and depressed it for a full 4 seconds on full throttle, then went back to cutting, and it cut as fast as new.

I took it out last night and cut a load of wood, but I had to sharpen it first
as i had not done so properly since I used it before. As it was not very
dull, so I did it just 2 seconds, and it cut like new, very fast.

All in all, I like it, and will continue to use it as intended, just as I would
using a normal chain, and cutting my wood this winter.
I am curious if it cuts as fast as the regular 91 chain.


----------



## Trigger-Time (Nov 3, 2010)

I know a couple of guys that really need the one.
I made the mistake of doing the chains they rock a few years ago.
They are better about keeping them out of the dirt but are still hard on chains.
I may put a bug in their wifes ears for Christmas.



Thanks,
TT


----------



## jeepyfz450 (Nov 3, 2010)

I also really think this could take off. curious how many times you can sharpen the chain under normal cutting conditions...


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (Nov 3, 2010)

Fish said:


> I am curious if it cuts as fast as the regular 91 chain.



The 91 PowerSharp and regular 91 chains had the same cutting speed in our comparative testing. 

Thanks for breaking a sweat to test the PowerSharp system and stopping by the OREGON booth at GIE.


----------



## Philbert (Nov 3, 2010)

Zombiechopper said:


> What happens when Bubba and Joey-one-tooth decide they ain't gonna spend no money on the special chain and they stick in a loop of regular dagular chain?



Regular chain will run on the PowerSharp bar as long as it is the correct pitch and gauge, and has the correct number of drive links. You just can't sharpen it with this system - would damage it like hitting concrete.

The only reason you need the 'special' bar is to be sure that it has the right radius tip (to match the stone), and has the mounting holes for the bar end sharpener.

If you buy the 'system' (bar, chain, stone, bar-end-sharpener) and don't like it, you still end up with a bar you can use.

Philbert


----------



## Zombiechopper (Nov 3, 2010)

Philbert said:


> Regular chain will run on the PowerSharp bar as long as it is the correct pitch and gauge, and has the correct number of drive links. You just can't sharpen it with this system - would damage it like hitting concrete.
> 
> The only reason you need the 'special' bar is to be sure that it has the right radius tip (to match the stone), and has the mounting holes for the bar end sharpener.
> 
> ...



Bubba and Joey _will _use the stone on the chain they already have...

if it is possible it is inevitable. I'm just curious if shrapnel would result?


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (Nov 4, 2010)

Zombiechopper said:


> Bubba and Joey _will _use the stone on the chain they already have...
> 
> if it is possible it is inevitable. I'm just curious if shrapnel would result?



Nothing breaks but the 91 VG chain "sharpened" on the bar mounted sharpener will be sharp enough to barely produce bug dust.


The guys like Joey one tooth are the reason the bar mounted sharpener does not come with a stone installed. If he tries to sharpen his 91VG with a new sharpener nothing will happen because there is no stone. The chain and stone are sold together to help Joey not make a mistake, but Joey can get creative and sooner or later will be making bug dust. Joey will call our service department to complain and one of the nice ladies will kindly explain the problem and solution.


----------



## SawTroll (Nov 4, 2010)

Looks like another goofy gimmick, designed to solve a non-existing problem! :censored:


----------



## lawnmowertech37 (Nov 4, 2010)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> The 91 PowerSharp and regular 91 chains had the same cutting speed in our comparative testing.
> 
> Thanks for breaking a sweat to test the PowerSharp system and stopping by the OREGON booth at GIE.



i was there saturday was talking to mcculloch guy from kansas he may be calling me sometime 

if you were there saturday i was the one who sat on the bench stool had to get off my feet from all the walking lol


----------



## Captain Crunch (Dec 7, 2010)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> Nothing breaks but the 91 VG chain "sharpened" on the bar mounted sharpener will be sharp enough to barely produce bug dust.
> 
> 
> The guys like Joey one tooth are the reason the bar mounted sharpener does not come with a stone installed. If he tries to sharpen his 91VG with a new sharpener nothing will happen because there is no stone. The chain and stone are sold together to help Joey not make a mistake, but Joey can get creative and sooner or later will be making bug dust. Joey will call our service department to complain and one of the nice ladies will kindly explain the problem and solution.



Now that's funny, nice sense of humor PS-ENG.


----------



## anymanusa (Dec 7, 2010)

so where is the 'review' part of this thread. I'm tired of reading through chit chat already.

I would've bought one of these at Lowes but they didn't have my size there.


----------



## paccity (Dec 8, 2010)

i think it would work for a arboist saw, guys up a tree, bucket. save time ?


----------



## Captain Crunch (Dec 8, 2010)

paccity said:


> i think it would work for a arboist saw, guys up a tree, bucket. save time ?



Seems to me that there is not much to hit up in the tree to dull a chain. Nails and wire tend to be low in trunk, maybe a few stones in a crotch, easily avoided.


----------



## anymanusa (Dec 8, 2010)

SawTroll said:


> Looks like another goofy gimmick, designed to solve a non-existing problem! :censored:



small minded talk right there.


----------



## Zombiechopper (Dec 8, 2010)

anymanusa said:


> small minded talk right there.



not really. It is a gadget for the lazy and inexperienced. Those unwilling to learn to sharpen. Learning to file a chain is part of owning a chainsaw. Checking your oil and tire pressure is part of owning a vehicle. None of these things are difficult but there are always those who won't. Thats called lazy.


----------



## anymanusa (Dec 10, 2010)

Zombiechopper said:


> not really. It is a gadget for the lazy and inexperienced. Those unwilling to learn to sharpen. Learning to file a chain is part of owning a chainsaw. Checking your oil and tire pressure is part of owning a vehicle. None of these things are difficult but there are always those who won't. Thats called lazy.



by your logic tire pressure sensors and low oil level indication sensors have no place on cars. Just another small minded post in this thread.

Do you call yourself lazy for using a television remote control? Didn't think so. It's all about freeing yourself up to do the things in life you WANT to do, not the little pesky things you HAVE to do. These types of inventions make our lives better. If you can't see that, you are small minded.


----------



## DavesMower&Saw (Dec 10, 2010)

I was skeptical about this system working but I'm a believer, in it after actually using it. 
I was sent a demo one of a 16" to fit a Stihl to fit my MS211. I went out and used it like a typical consumer ran it hard
cutting some red oak logs next to the shop. When it stopped cutting well I put on the sharpener, and it sharpened right up, 
and went back to cutting. I ran it for 45 minutes or better, it still was cutting. 
For consumers, the price has been the main issue not if it works or not, they have a hard time swallowing 65-75$ 
for a system designed for use on 250$ and less saw. Even with the 10$ rebate there is a bit of sticker shock.
Anyone interested I let them demo my MS211 and it helps relieve any fears about the investment in it. 

The setup at the shop












The chain after much use and some abuse.


----------



## Captain Crunch (Dec 10, 2010)

Just another gimick to break, who needs it, my manual oiler works just fine - grandpa naysayer way back when.

I can file a chain, but until someone good showed me, I was clueless. For the target market, this may just be the hot ticket. The twice a year user want to grab his saw, clean up the branches and move on. 4 seconds to tune up a chain that accidently hit the dirt will be appreciated.


----------



## Zombiechopper (Dec 10, 2010)

$75!!?

first I thought it was silly, now I think its terrible.


----------



## striperswaper (Dec 10, 2010)

$75 vs. the cost of two files and a raker height gauge? just crazy, even more so for the guy who runs a saw once or twice a year


----------



## Captain Crunch (Dec 10, 2010)

I agree, too much$ for me. If Harry happy homeowner agrees And does not buy them, Oregon will quit making them, and you guys will have been right.


----------



## PB (Dec 10, 2010)

Look at it from the homeowner point of view. To replace a worn out bar and chain from the dealer it would run about $50 depending on the saw. If you have the shop sharpen the chain at $5-10 each time, the $75 up front doesn't sound too bad.


----------



## oscar4883 (Dec 10, 2010)

:agree2:

Seems like it would be a good thing for a homeowner, casual firewood cutter.


----------



## lawnmowertech37 (Dec 10, 2010)

http://www.cmsmallengines.net/orego...bars-and-chain/oregon-power-sharp-system.html


----------



## Philbert (Dec 10, 2010)

Zombiechopper said:


> $75!!?
> first I thought it was silly, now I think its terrible.





striperswaper said:


> $75 vs. the cost of two files and a raker height gauge? just crazy, even more so for the guy who runs a saw once or twice a year



It is not a cheap system, but you need to be a bit more fair on the math. Two files and a depth gauge tool should be under $10, but that does not include the cost of the bar and chain that are included with the starter kit.

In round numbers: a bar ($25), a chain ($15), plus 4 sharpenings at a local saw shop or hardware store @ $8 ($32) - rounds out somewhere close to $70.

Yeah, you can get better prices on sale, but this system is it is not designed for the guy that knows a lot about saws or sharpens chains by himself. What he gets is the ability and the convenience to keep working, and not having to stop to take his chain in periodically.

Not for everyone, but could be a convenient system for the right type of user.

Philbert


----------



## Fish (Dec 10, 2010)

Plus, not having to take the chain into town, drop it off at a shop, and
hope they sharpen it correctly in a few days wait.

Or you could just sharpen it in the field in under a minute, and keep on cutting!!!

Sounds like simple math to me, well maybe a little Algebra....


----------



## Philbert (Dec 10, 2010)

Fish said:


> Sounds like simple math to me, well maybe a little Algebra....



Actually, they probably sweated the chain geometry quite a bit when they performed their marketing calculus!

Philbert


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 10, 2010)

oscar4883 said:


> :agree2:
> 
> Seems like it would be a good thing for a homeowner, casual firewood cutter.


 
To me it looks like a bad idea that went wrong...

The last time I said something like that I got a message from Oregon, explaining the background for it (no surprice there) - but my opinion is still the same!


----------



## oscar4883 (Dec 10, 2010)

I hear what you are sayin Troll. A lot of folks don't want to deal with sharpening a chain. If they can slam that thing up against a log and put an edge on a chain I say good. Better than burning up there saw. I think that most of the saws I have gotten to rebuild are because of dull chains, and dull operator, overworking a saw. Sure that powersharp deal is a little gimmicky but it does have its place in the market. Not with us, but with a certain set.


----------



## Diesel nut (Dec 13, 2010)

Looks like it would work great to me. I think I might get one if they make one for a Jonsered 2145 and 2050.


----------



## derwoodii (Dec 13, 2010)

<object width="853" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/e-yFaKkkF-U?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/e-yFaKkkF-U?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="853" height="505"></embed></object>


----------



## Jimbeamwhite (Jan 22, 2011)

*Sorry to drag up an old thread, but*

Fish, under "normal" cutting conditions, as in not cutting concrete or hitting steel in the tree and ruining cutters, how many sharpenings do you get out of a chain and stone set, on average? I'm thinking of getting one for my MS200T, saves a load of hassle getting down from the tree and filing (plus, I HATE filing!) then going back up again. Any guesstimate?


----------



## 046 (Jan 22, 2011)

nothing new... powersharp was tried 20 years or so ago.... didn't take. 
got a few new old stock powersharp chains laying in my parts box.


----------



## Jimbeamwhite (Jan 22, 2011)

046 said:


> nothing new... powersharp was tried 20 years or so ago.... didn't take.
> got a few new old stock powersharp chains laying in my parts box.



But this is new technology, not the same as the old stuff. I was just wanting to ask Fish how long the chains last, as he did say it worked welll but never mentioned chain lifespan. I'm one of these people who will buy two chains, leave one in the box, and sharpen the other until it's right back and dead, then put the new one on and buy another - and did I mention that I hate sharpening?


----------



## Philbert (Jan 22, 2011)

Jimbeamwhite said:


> Fish, under "normal" cutting conditions, as in not cutting concrete or hitting steel in the tree and ruining cutters, how many sharpenings do you get out of a chain and stone set, on average? I'm thinking of getting one for my MS200T, saves a load of hassle getting down from the tree and filing (plus, I HATE filing!) then going back up again. Any guesstimate?


 
" A bunch". Seriously. The number of sharpenings depends on how bad a chain gets damaged, and how much you take off when filing or grinding. Same with this system.

I tried one of the systems and was skeptical, but very impressed. That's not to say that they cut as well as a carefully sharpened 'normal' chain, but if you are just doing basic cutting and not too fussy, you may be very happy with it. I gather that you hate filing (?), so it sounds like you might give up a little edge perfection for convenience.

If you are just sharpening when the chain gets dull, and not 'rocked', and if you use a reasonably light touch on the bar-end-sharpener, you should easily get 6 to 8 + sharpenings out of a chain. I must have done that many just playing with the sharpener to try it out.

I will bet that Oregon does not recommend you sharpening with it in the tree.

Philbert


----------



## logbutcher (Jan 22, 2011)

Fight start time:
Can you BORE with this system ?:knife::male-fighter1:

Seriously though: why is it that touching up a chain or filing down a chip is so tough on the job ? Away from the shop or truck, a simple stump vise, any easy hand sharpening rig like *Pherd*, isn't brain surgery. Follow the yellow brick witness line, no ? So why the whine or assumed whine about sharpening ? Really don't get it. Really. Besides, most "dealer" sharpenings screw up the chains, and cost drinks.


----------



## 046 (Jan 22, 2011)

nah... same basic technology

sears craftsman 2.1ps model 358.350871


















Jimbeamwhite said:


> But this is new technology, not the same as the old stuff. I was just wanting to ask Fish how long the chains last, as he did say it worked welll but never mentioned chain lifespan. I'm one of these people who will buy two chains, leave one in the box, and sharpen the other until it's right back and dead, then put the new one on and buy another - and did I mention that I hate sharpening?


----------



## TMFARM 2009 (Jan 22, 2011)

i am interested in it i have two limbing saws it would work great on... i wished they would make a 20" for my other saw.... heres the way i see it... i work 50 hrs a week and when i am off cutting i have little time to spend sharpening chains.. i even have my own grinder but still i am interested... i carry 15 chains with me to the woods when i go... i usually run through half in a day. i change them out when filling up.. still consumes time that i dont have much of anyway...keep in mind that all the wood i drop and cut has to go that day.you cant leave it or it wont be there when you get back.i dont cut wood in places like most so there is wire and who knows what in some of the trees.i see this system as a real time saver to keep production up while cutting and less down time,especially on the 14" and 16" saws that seem to dull out every fifteen to twenty minutes. my question is how does this system fare in hedge and mulberry shag bark hickory?i cut a lot of it and regular chains dont hold an edge long anyway...i dont understand still why they dont make a twenty"...


----------



## galde (Jan 22, 2011)

Yukonsawman said:


> Looks like a good cutter and design, however, I think it will fail as it's designed for Harry the Home Owner.
> What happens when the bar groove becomes worn and the chain is flopping around in the bar like a wet dish rag? It's doesn't look ID10T proof to me. Lol
> John


 

































Good point. Also affecting the trueness of the resharpening grind is the effect of wear on the drive links and on the spur in the bar nose. Excess slack in the chain will also affect how the stone hones the teeth. I can see many of the targeted users giving it WOT with a loose chain and jamming the rig hard into the solid object. To get the factory-true grind, it would require a taut chain, a new stone, a roller nose or hard nose bar, and a light but steady touch on the stone.


----------



## Philbert (Jan 23, 2011)

I have used both systems. The 'old' on a 20+ year old Sears (Poulan) electric that I still have, but now use with a conventional chain; and the 'new' on a STIHL 021. They both cut wood. The new system seems to have improved the sharpening system, and they re-designed the chain to go with it.

It's like a lot of things - some guys take elaborate and immaculate care of their cars, others put gas in them and drive them till they stop. Some people use honing steels every time the touch a kitchen knife, some use Ginsu knives for everything, and some don't know that tomatoes are not supposed to smush when cut.

There are a lot of people who don't know that chains can even be sharpened - they just buy a new one or assume that the saw is worn out when it stops cutting. This gives them a way to keep cutting, just like those 'pull through' kitchen knife sharpeners restore some of a knife's ability to cut, even if not to chef's standards.

Other guys, like the OP, may have a specific need it fills. Not for everybody, but from my evaluation, the chains do cut.

Interesting question on the bore cut. Anybody tried that with these?

Philbert


----------



## 046 (Jan 23, 2011)

have to withdraw my comments about the new powersharp being the same technology. 

more accurate is similar technology, with the most important feature of sharpening stone being modular. meaning this new powersharp system can be used with any saw that fits powersharp's proprietary chains. 

that's a pretty significant feature! powersharp's tooth profile are very agressive so no lack of performance due to tooth profile. sharpening stones likely will wear unevenly leading to tooth profile crooked as well. 

still a very useful technology for casual users ... don't think target audience will be chainsaw nuts on AS.


----------



## Philbert (Jan 23, 2011)

046 said:


> meaning this new powersharp system can be used with any saw that fits powersharp's proprietary chains.



The chains work with conventional sprockets, but you have to use them with the PowerSharp bars in order to be sure that the radius of the bar tip matches the profile of the sharpening stone. Since Oregon is targeting smaller saws, they are only making bars to fit certain lower cc saws.



046 said:


> sharpening stones likely will wear unevenly leading to tooth profile crooked as well.



That was my experience with my first PowerSharp chain. Although, to be fair, we intentionally abused it (concrete, etc.) to 'test' it. There is a diamond tipped link on each chain to dress the stone each pass. However, I found build up on my stone and uneven cutters after multiple sharpenings. I was concerned about this, as keeping each cutter uniform is a key principle in sharpening, whether filing or grinding.

That said, the chains kept on cutting.



046 said:


> ... don't think target audience will be chainsaw nuts on AS.


 
Agree.

Philbert


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (Jan 24, 2011)

*Right size saws for PowerSharp chain*



Diesel nut said:


> Looks like it would work great to me. I think I might get one if they make one for a Jonsered 2145 and 2050.


 
Please keep PowerSharp on the saws listed for it. The 2145 and 2150 are 45 cc and 50 cc saws and come with a .325 pitch chain that is designed for higher powered saws.

PowerSharp (91PS) is a 3/8 pitch low profile consumer chain and is designed to be run on saws with a 6 tooth drive sprocket, 42 cc (2.3 HP) and under, and 18" or shorter bars. That is the typical saw setup for the 91 series consumer chains.

Running 91PS on saws like the 2145 and 2150 could result in unsatisfactory life. Among other reasons, the .325 chains are stronger because the material is thicker than 91PS.

For those AS members with saws bigger than 42 cc (like all of you) we have heard the requests for a PowerSharp chain designed for the bigger saws. Please be patient.


----------



## Bob Wright (Jan 24, 2011)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> For those AS members with saws bigger than 42 cc (like all of you) we have heard the requests for a PowerSharp chain designed for the bigger saws. Please be patient.


 
I hope they will have 24" - 32"+ bars that are a reasonable price too...Bob


----------



## Jimbeamwhite (Jan 24, 2011)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> Please keep PowerSharp on the saws listed for it. The 2145 and 2150 are 45 cc and 50 cc saws and come with a .325 pitch chain that is designed for higher powered saws.
> 
> PowerSharp (91PS) is a 3/8 pitch low profile consumer chain and is designed to be run on saws with a 6 tooth drive sprocket, 42 cc (2.3 HP) and under, and 18" or shorter bars. That is the typical saw setup for the 91 series consumer chains.
> 
> ...



Powersharp Eng, maybe you could answer my question. How many sharpenings would you typically allow something like a MS200T with a 14" bar, before a new stone and chain are needed? Fish seemed to like it but no reply from him here.


----------



## Jimbeamwhite (Jan 24, 2011)

No cutting cinder blocks or Aussie wood by the way - just normal use, in normal wood.


----------



## Fish (Jan 24, 2011)

Unfortunately, I am not able yet to follow up on the thread I started.

I am pretty much broke, and have taken up a night job to get through winter,
so I do not have the time or resources to devote to this thread.

The Oregon rep at the Expo, repeatedly sharpened and cut wood, then cut a 
long stretch on the cinder block, sharpened, repeated, etc....

I have used the chain, cut like a new one until I hit dirt, re-sharpened, then resumed cutting like new.

So I have only cut a "rick or so" and my chain looks like a new one, and sharpening it took less than a minute.

Hopefully, in the next day or two, I will cut more and add to this thread.

Thanks.


----------



## Jimbeamwhite (Jan 24, 2011)

Looking forward to it! Cheers Fish and Philbert, appreciate you are busy - but surely AS should take priority?:beer::laughn:
I mean it's not like you NEED to eat or put gas in the car, after all?:eyeroll::handshake:


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (Jan 24, 2011)

Jimbeamwhite said:


> Powersharp Eng, maybe you could answer my question. How many sharpenings would you typically allow something like a MS200T with a 14" bar, before a new stone and chain are needed? Fish seemed to like it but no reply from him here.


 
Several times I've personally seen 10 demonstrations done with one chain. Each demonstration consisted of dulling the chain until the cutting time was 2x to 3x of original and then sharpening until the cutting time was at or close to original. But those demonstrations dulled the chain against a hard surface.

Straight wood cutting would likely get you up to 15 sharpenings.


----------



## jra1100 (Jan 25, 2011)

I just found this thread and find it to be very interesting. I tried to rep Fish, but I gotta spread it first. I cut firewood for nearly 30 years before I found AS, and must admit that I knew little about saws or chains till I joined. If my saw didn't work I took it to O'brien's saw shop and he fixed it. When the chain got dull I took it to O'brien's to be sharpened, well I actually took 2 or 3 or more. I burned wood to save money and for exercise, and Johnny Obrien was a friend and a good place to hang out, and he didn't charge much. Johnny knew that I wanted to keep the price down on saws, so when I needed "new" saws he'd sell me a used one cheap. Once when I came in the shop with some chains he said "hey I just got in this old Montgomery Ward boat anchor, and it needs a big dumb bas***d to be able to run it, I've fixed it up and it runs great, I put $50 on your account, take it". When the big C got him I had to drive 20 miles one way to a saw shop, things were changed. I found AS while looking for some info on a bigger saw, and things really changed then. Back in the day I didn't care about sharpening chains, but the powersharp would have been a help for those times when I couldn't get to Johnny. It is probably like so many other devices like this, if you don't have a chain grinder like I and many other AS members do, or aren't worth a damn at hand sharpening (like me) then it is a good alternative, not the best alternative probably, but a good one. If I only cut a couple of times a year I'd probably have one.

Thanks for all the input and information guys. JR


----------



## zogger (Jan 25, 2011)

*shagbark*



TMFARM 2009 said:


> i am interested in it i have two limbing saws it would work great on... i wished they would make a 20" for my other saw.... heres the way i see it... i work 50 hrs a week and when i am off cutting i have little time to spend sharpening chains.. i even have my own grinder but still i am interested... i carry 15 chains with me to the woods when i go... i usually run through half in a day. i change them out when filling up.. still consumes time that i dont have much of anyway...keep in mind that all the wood i drop and cut has to go that day.you cant leave it or it wont be there when you get back.i dont cut wood in places like most so there is wire and who knows what in some of the trees.i see this system as a real time saver to keep production up while cutting and less down time,especially on the 14" and 16" saws that seem to dull out every fifteen to twenty minutes. my question is how does this system fare in hedge and mulberry shag bark hickory?i cut a lot of it and regular chains dont hold an edge long anyway...i dont understand still why they dont make a twenty"...



On shagbark, once you get to the main trunk that is large..I am thinking it almost might be easier to get a concrete saw, run it down the top, then peel the dang things first before cutting to size. With a...don't know..what is a good peeler method? I've never bought or used any of those various spuds they advertise. I've knocked off what I can with just a general ax, but there's still more on the ones I am working on and it's still dirty there, like 18 layers of dirt mixed with dinosaur scales bark.

Or something like that. For real, only a few cuts max from sharp to too dull to even think about it. Then the fun of splitting starts.... Good wood for heating, most excellent, I have a stout chunk ticking over in the stove right now, not real dry but all I wanted today was a long burning something and that was kicking around, but I think I'd in the future I'd rather just go cut twice as much oak or maple and be done with it. When it dries up I'll be back down in the swamp pastures finishing my two big shagbark blowdowns, but guaranteed I am NOT going out of my way to go cut live shagbark down...nope... the branches weren't *too* bad but those main trunks, sheesh.


----------



## Jimbeamwhite (Jan 25, 2011)

Much appreciated folks for all your input - I think I'll bite the bullet and give the system a go! I need a new bar anyway, and my "working" chain is getting a bit soft, so it seems like the perfect time to try something new.


----------



## Philbert (Jan 25, 2011)

Jimbeamwhite said:


> - I think I'll bite the bullet and give the system a go! I need a new bar anyway,


 

Keep us in the 'loop'! Let us know your comments, impressions, etc. If your expectations were met or where you found it lacking.

Philbert


----------



## Yoopermike (Jan 25, 2011)

OK im still stuck on the fact that ppl PAY 10 bucks for sharpening??? send em to me I will sharpen them for that price .. I usually only charge 4 off the saw and 5 on the saw for sharpening!


----------



## Jimbeamwhite (Jan 27, 2011)

The guy I buy my chains off charges $14 for 18" chains OFF the bar - done fantastically, but I think in the US you can probably buy a new one for that price!


----------



## Jimbeamwhite (Jan 29, 2011)

Bought and on the way. Handy, as I can switch the whole setup between my MS200T and my 020T, they (not surprisingly) take the same kit. Will report back once it's been through some wood!


----------



## brokenbudget (Jan 29, 2011)

Yoopermike said:


> OK im still stuck on the fact that ppl PAY 10 bucks for sharpening??? send em to me I will sharpen them for that price .. I usually only charge 4 off the saw and 5 on the saw for sharpening!


 
up this way i get chains that make me wonder why i'm only charging 10 bucks to put right.
plus when i get a 24" or larger, i charge 15 bucks. if it isn't rocked out. if it is, then i tell 'em to buy another. depending on who it is, the price changes. close friends and family are free, regardless how bad the chain is. some people however, need to be charged more. depends on how much i like the person.


----------



## Jimbeamwhite (Feb 2, 2011)

Well the 16" kit for my MS200t/020t arrived today. Very impressed in the three cuts I made, in the dark, while it was raining, haha. It cuts faster I think than the standard Stihl green chain, and certainly throws out the chips. No need to try the sharpening bit yet, of course. 16" logs were a breeze, no effort at all. And yes, it will do a bore cut just like a standard bar/chain - I tried to take a pic but it was too dark. I will keep this updated - but I'm not going deliberately blunting it on concrete or anything, will wait till I either hit something unpleasant in the wood (a tiger? Elephant?) or it just naturally blunts and needs a touch-up - hopefully at the weekend depending on storms etc.
So far, very pleased indeed. That might change, who knows, but it "feels" great while cutting. Very smooth.


----------



## galde (Feb 3, 2011)

046 said:


> nothing new... powersharp was tried 20 years or so ago.... didn't take.
> got a few new old stock powersharp chains laying in my parts box.


 
I have been experimenting with old "barracuda" chains and the new power-sharp chain. I have my own way of sharpening that equals the factory grind. I would like to find some more of the old barracuda chains -- all pitches and lengths to play with.


----------



## galde (Feb 3, 2011)

Jimbeamwhite said:


> Bought and on the way. Handy, as I can switch the whole setup between my MS200T and my 020T, they (not surprisingly) take the same kit. Will report back once it's been through some wood!


 
Did you get it with the small Stihl bar (A074)? The only powersharp bar I have found is the small Poulan (A041).


----------



## Jimbeamwhite (Feb 4, 2011)

Yep, it's an A074. Works really well - I did another bore cut tonight in the wild wind and dark and hit a stone that was hiding under the log. Blunted the chain pretty badly. About 3 seconds of sharpening, and the chain cuts like brand new, if not better. I hope they release this for the 041 and other bigger saws, it's so handy I really want to have it on all my saws. Expensive yes, but I only fell trees and cut wood to heat 2, sometimes 3 houses, and it's not THAT cold!


----------



## galde (Mar 5, 2011)

I saw the powersharp package with the A074 (Stihl) bar at Home Depot and bought one to try on my 009L. Wal-Mart has only the Poulan mount. Lowes has both the Poulan mount and Stihl mount. Home Depot has both mounts and sells the full package for about $20 less than Lowes and Wal-Mart.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 5, 2011)

galde said:


> Wal-Mart has only the Poulan mount. Lowes has both the Poulan mount and Stihl mount. Home Depot has both mounts and sells the full package for about $20 less than Lowes and Wal-Mart.


 
Saw them this week at Northern Tool & Equipment. Also see them in their on line catalog. Not sure how their pricing compares to the other stores.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Mar 13, 2011)

*Learned A Couple of New Things*

A couple of Oregon Reps came out to Minnesota and to a GTG in Wisconsin yesterday. Learned a few 'finesse' points about the system:

1). *Always mount the bar-end-sharpener/sharpening cassette the same way*. Not obvious, but they said that this develops a consistent wear pattern in the stone. Flipping the stone each time is counter-productive according to the Reps.

2). *Use the same stone with an individual chain.* This is consistent with the instructions - i.e., you get and use a new stone with a new chain. But at the demo we had several saws with the PowerSharp system mounted and we had to keep track of which bar-end-sharpener went with which saw. If you had several saws with the system, you would want to mark each sharpening cassette for a specific saw (unlike files or a grinding wheel that you use on any chain of the same size!).

3) *Push it till it smokes!* The demo videos are not clear on this - they say to push the bar into the sharpener until you see sparks, then hold it for 3 - 5 seconds. The Oregon Reps suggested that I was not being aggressive enough (again, maybe this is because I learned to use a light touch on my 511A grinder!).

4). *Don't flex the bar.* When you push the bar hard against the sharpening cassette, the guide bar tends to flex, which means that one side of the tip may press harder against the stone. The Reps showed me how to press forward with the saw's rear handle, and to use the side handle to keep the bar straight by pulling slightly to the left or right.

5). *If you intentionally dull it on concrete, it takes more effort to bring it back.* It's tempting to try this, and we did with an earlier test unit because 'they told us to'. But when you are just touching up an edge that gets dull from cutting, the cutters are restored much faster. This is how I will be evaluating my current PS chain on an electric saw - no concrete on purpose. Kind of obvious - I would not intentionally run a conventional chain into concrete to see how fast I can restore it with a grinder, but this system, it just begs . . . 

6). *You CAN bore cut with it.* I don't think that it is the best chain for this purpose, but we were able to bore cut through a 14 inch section of oak, just to see if we could.

Philbert


----------



## Bob Wright (Mar 13, 2011)

I will be using it soon at Oregon HQ in Portland...Bob


----------



## Philbert (Mar 14, 2011)

*PS on Electric Saw*

My first electric chainsaw, a Craftsman/Poulan bought 20+ years ago, came equipped with the first generation PowerSharp system. I cut a lot of wood with it, but when it stopped cutting so well, my dealer told me to "_put a real chain on that saw_", and that is how I have run it since.

So I was anxious to try the new PS system on an electric saw - my Makita UC4000 (13 amps). Please see the attached photos - frozen apple wood, up to about 8" diameter. Cut well; lots of chips!

And yes, I did use a GFCI in the snow.

Philbert

_(EDIT - replaced lost photos - should be similar to originals)_


----------



## tbone75 (Apr 6, 2011)

*Thanks for posting*

I have had several people ask me about the PS but didn't know anything.Now I can give them some idea how it works. Thanks!!


----------



## Philbert (Apr 11, 2011)

A neighbor, just across the alley, decided to have a massive Silver Maple removed from his backyard. So, I had to spend part of the day watching how the crew worked, and had to ask for some free firewood, even though I don't have space to store much more.

I cut up about a face cord of 6 inch to 16 inch diameter limbs (it's a huge tree - we are not even near the big stuff yet) with a new PowerSharp chain on my Makita UC4000 electric saw (16" bar, 13 amps). Did not need to sharpen it yet.

Got very fast cuts and very smooth edges cross cutting/bucking the green maple. I noodled and ripped a few crotch sections, and the chain did OK, but did not seem to do this as well as I remember with the PowerSharp chain on a STIHL 021. Might be the different saws (power, chain speed); might be the different wood (I think that the other was Ash?).

Anyway, so far I like this electric saw/PowerSharp combination, and it seems to fit with the homeowner type user combination.

Philbert

_(EDIT - replaced lost photos - should be similar to originals)_







PS - It noodles really well too!


----------



## Philbert (Apr 12, 2011)

manyhobies posted this in another thread - I am linking it here to help people find related posts.

Philbert

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/167869.htm



> Another PowerSharp thread!
> 
> Well at Grandpatractor's (JD) GTG last weekend philbert had the Orgagon Reps come out. They were looking for guys that had saws below 50cc to try their PowerSharp system on.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (May 18, 2011)

*More experience with the PowerSharp*

Well I've got some more time on the PowerSharp system..

Things I like.....

I got my system free....was asked to share my findings so here I am.

It does sharpen up fast! I do wish I had ran the sharpener on the chain right out of the box! I did find it to cut better after the first sharpen. I don't find myself trying to get through a cut and wait to sharpen. I just shut off the saw, pop on the sharpening unit and have at it. Then it's back to finishing the cut. Not having to spend the 2-10 mts filing is nice!

It's been mentioned to put the sharpening "unit" on the same way every time. I didn't remember what way I put it on the first time so I haven't kepted to this rule. I haven't seen any ill effects. The diamond stone dresser appears to keep the stone groove shaped up.

If having a sharp chain to make a couple of key cuts say like on a construction site....possibly demo work....is important to you and time is more important than money....BUY THIS SYSTEM! IMHO...you'll never look back!

*Things I don't like:*

Longer bar. I'm using the system on my little Pouland 2550. I was using a 12" bar and I don't like the longer 16"....

*Heavy spring in the sharpening unit.* They put a very heavy spring in the sharpening unit almost to the point of over kill. I don't see any reason why this couldn't be lightened up! The spring is strong enough to flex the bar when pushing against something. I really don't see the average "JOE" being careful about not flexing the bar!

*I've broken off one or more cutters* cutting up pallets. I probably hit a nail. I think the cutters could have a bit more material put into them.

*The cost is higher* than buying a regular chain.....Time will tell if I buy a replacement chain/stone when this one is dead. On the plus side, I can run regular chain on this bar.

*The cut is as smooth* as a regular chain (as smooth as a chainsaw can get). With this I'm thinking about someone like my BIL who's in construction. He has built log homes. Here is where a "smooth" cut is important.

If you'd like more info, drop me a PM. I'd be happy to answer your questions. If you live in SW MN and would like to try a system. Drop me a PM.

Regards,

Dan

I'm posting this out of my free will. The only interest I have in PS is that they gave me the system and asked to give feedback.


----------



## Philbert (May 18, 2011)

Thanks for your input Dan,

I have gone through more than a full cord of wood now with this system on a few different saws - gas and electric. I was also surprised at how smooth the finished cut was.

I am assuming that the broken cutters can be replaced the same way as any other cutters, but that most saw shops do not carry these parts or this chain by the loop, so it might not be a practical possiblity, unless you have a couple of damaged chains to piece together. 

Interesting question - how you would grind down a new replacement tooth to match the existing ones on a chain . . . .

I would like to see them offer, and would like to try, a heavier gauge system for larger saws and disaster clean-up, which might also be good for the construction use you mention.

For the record - the only consideration I have received for my input has also been the chance to try the system and to speak with some of their reps in exchange for feedback.

Philbert


----------



## JustinM (May 18, 2011)

manyhobies said:


> *The cut is as smooth* as a regular chain (as smooth as a chainsaw can get).


 
Don, thanks for your 2¢. I presume you meant that the cut ISNT as smooth, right? since you're listing it in the "cons" ?


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (May 30, 2011)

JustinM said:


> Don, thanks for your 2¢. I presume you meant that the cut ISNT as smooth, right? since you're listing it in the "cons" ?


 
Justin

Yes...you are correct! A typo on my part!

I've used the PS system a bit more. I'm getting close to what I believe the end of the life of the chain. I need to count the number of teeth that have broken off. Now it's a "skip" chain. I really did try to be careful not to hit the nails in the pallets! REALLY!


----------



## Philbert (May 30, 2011)

manyhobies said:


> I need to count the number of teeth that have broken off. Now it's a "skip" chain.


 
If the teeth that are left still have life in them, save the chain for me - I'll use it for parts in case I throw a tooth.

Philbert


----------



## Fish (May 30, 2011)

Still on my first chain, cut's good.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 10, 2011)

*Larger size in the works*

Currently, the PowerSharp chain is limited to smaller displacement saws (up to 45 cc?) running 3/8 low profile chain. 
According to their website, Oregon is working on a version for mid sized saws - .325 / .050. This will work on saws such as a STIHL MS 250 and MS 260, and others (50 - 60 cc). 
Based on my experience with the 3/8 LP chain, I would be very interested in trying this for storm clean up work where we work with volunteers and we hit a lot of junk. The current size has been limiting because we only use a few of those smaller saws for this work.

*** They have posted a 'Notify me; link if you would like to be notified when it becomes available. ***

_ATTENTION: PowerSharp® is currently available for 3/8" low profile pitch, .050" gauge saw chain; a .325" pitch saw chain is being developed. If you would like to be notified when it's available, please provide your contact information. Notify me _

Find the PowerSharp® part for your chainsaw.

I have recently seen the 16" 'starter kit' (bar, sharpening cassette, chain, stone) at a local home center for as low as $53, with the replacement kit (chain & stone) going for $29. I still think that this will take off better when it is packaged as an OEM upgrade with new, consumer saws.

Philbert


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Jul 11, 2011)

*Update on my PowerSharp*

Well.....I've used my first PowerSharp chain all most all up. There are a lot of cutters that have broken off. This happened when I used the chain to cut up pallets. I tried to avoid the nails....I guess I hit more than I thought I did. The chain will still cut...however, it doesn't cut like it was new(er). I think a little thicker material could be used for the cutters.

*My conclusion:[/B] This system is great for the guy who uses his chains until they don't cut anymore and then puts on a new one. I probably got around 10-15 sharpenings (just a guess) from this setup.

I probably will not buy a replacement chain/stone.*


----------



## Philbert (Jul 25, 2011)

*OREGON PowerSharp Chainsaw Sharpening System High Speed Video*

On YouTube

_EDIT - original video no longer available? Here is a similar video of the PowerSharp chain on Oregon's 40 V battery chainsaw with the built in sharpener._

OREGON PowerNow CS250 PowerSharp High Speed Video


OREGON PowerSharp - Check out OREGON PowerSharp chain in the high speed video when it is contacting the sharpening stone at full speed. Look for the little white balls the move slowly around with the chain. These are sparks shot at high speed. Some of the seem to even explode in the video. Pretty cool. Obviously, don't try this at home with the cassette open. So check it out.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jul 30, 2011)

Just saw a short promo for PowerSharp on "Ask This Old House" tonight.

Said you could use it on your chain 'sawr' and that it mounts right on the 'bahr'.

Philbert


----------



## wyk (Jul 30, 2011)

Philbert said:


> On YouTube
> 
> ‪OREGON PowerSharp Chainsaw Sharpening System High Speed Video‬&rlm; - YouTube
> 
> ...


 
Are they all 'skip tooth'? That video beats the hell out of this one, tho:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muVGn2bSlfk
_You can't cut no metal with a chainsaw!_


----------



## Philbert (Jul 30, 2011)

wyk said:


> Are they all 'skip tooth'?


 
Mine aren't. The ones in the YouTube video are also full comp. They might look funny as the cutters are very different from conventional chain: the bevel is on the top of the top plate, and each cutter has 2 depth gauges. Each drive link has a low kick-back hump at the front. And there is one dresser link on each chain loop. Hope that helps.

Philbert


----------



## KiwiBro (Jul 30, 2011)

Is there a case for professional use of this chain/system?
Something along the lines of it saves X amount of time at $Y/hr, cuts W x as fast as standard chain, and will cut Z times as much wood per chain/block compared to a conventional chain?

If it stacks up on a cost per unit production (whatever that unit happens to be for the user - cord, tonne, bundles, stumps per day, etc) then let's hear it. If it doesn't stack up for pro use, which is my gut feeling, let's hear that too. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 30, 2011)

KiwiBro said:


> Is there a case for professional use of this chain/system?


 
Depends.

I was skeptical at first. I considered it as a homeowner focused product for casual use. But I was impressed at how well it cut.
If someone is performance oriented, meticulous about sharp chains, knows how to sharpen effectively, etc., then they will not be satisfied with this system. Case closed. It will not cut as fast or as clean as square ground chisel chain. It will not outlast conventional chain (my opinions). It costs more to buy.

But I have seen guys in the tree removal business who didn't have the sharpest chains. Guys who are not production cutters and don't need a super clean cut; they just want to cut through stuff to remove it, make some firewood, do utility work, etc. I do volunteer storm clean up and the Oregon guys pointed out how we tend to hit a lot of debris in the wood, so there is a potential advantage to being able to quickly sharpen and return to cutting. Depending upon the work one does (fence line clearing, etc.), the situation could be similar. Some of your buddies tell me that you guys have tough wood over there - not sure how it would handle that.

Currently, the chain is only available to replace 3/8 Low Profile, which limits it to smaller displacement saws (up to 45 cc?), but could be handy to have up in a tree. Word is that they are in the process of developing a .325 version which will work on 50 - 60+cc saws - more in line with some professional use.

From a cost standpoint, once you have the system (bar, sharpening cassette, chain, sharpening stone - $55 to $75 around here) replacement chain&stone combos go for about 1.5 to 2 times the cost of conventional chain. I don't think that you will cut 1.5 to 2 times as much wood, but you will definitely save time sharpening. Depending upon the skills of your crew, and your wage rate, there might be a payback or break even deal. If you only sharpen at the shop, or have to walk back to the truck, there could be some advantages.

So there can be a case, depending upon your situation. Don't mean to be evasive, but you'd probably have to find a way to demo it to see if it meets your needs.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Aug 22, 2011)

*PowerSharp OEM on Efco*

Looks like Efco is offering PowerSharp as OEM on some saws. I thought I would have seen it first on Craftsman saws, as Sears likes to promote features, like tool-less chain adjustment, in their ads and product descriptions. Also, as an earlier version of PS chain came on the Sears saw I bought 20+ years ago.

Philbert






Chainsaws | efco Power


----------



## Edge & Engine (Sep 15, 2011)

KiwiBro said:


> Is there a case for professional use of this chain/system?
> Something along the lines of it saves X amount of time at $Y/hr, cuts W x as fast as standard chain, and will cut Z times as much wood per chain/block compared to a conventional chain?
> 
> If it stacks up on a cost per unit production (whatever that unit happens to be for the user - cord, tonne, bundles, stumps per day, etc) then let's hear it. If it doesn't stack up for pro use, which is my gut feeling, let's hear that too. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.


 
We have had many requests from arborist/tree service companies for PowerSharp units, but the problem is compatibility, like Philbert mentioned, PowerSharp being currently limited to 3/8" low profile severely limits its application among professional users, who use saws like Stihl MS260, Husqvarna 346XP etc. Word is, around March they will have the .325 version out, adding compatibility for Oregon K095, D025 and D009 bar mounts. (I'm not 100% on the D009 mount, it may have been a typo, I don't know as I've ever seen a saw with a D009 mount that uses .325, although you could always convert it). Also, there's a big price drop on PowerSharp units being rolled out.


----------



## MattCrowe (Sep 16, 2011)

As soon as there is one Available for a Husqvarna 365, 3/8 20", i want one... i will buy it as a gift for the young guy up the road that brings me his 2 chains every bloody Ute load (1.5m3) of wood he cuts for a grind... I think every time the rocks hear him pull up in the bush, they quiver with fear... This system "WILL" serve a purpose regardless of how many negative's some of you have gone out of your way to find.


----------



## BloodOnTheIce (Sep 16, 2011)

Edge & Engine said:


> We have had many requests from arborist/tree service companies for PowerSharp units, but the problem is compatibility, like Philbert mentioned, PowerSharp being currently limited to 3/8" low profile severely limits its application among professional users, who use saws like Stihl MS260, Husqvarna 346XP etc. Word is, around March they will have the .325 version out, adding compatibility for Oregon K095, D025 and D009 bar mounts. (I'm not 100% on the D009 mount, it may have been a typo, I don't know as I've ever seen a saw with a D009 mount that uses .325, although you could always convert it). Also, there's a big price drop on PowerSharp units being rolled out.


 
We've sold over 100 Power Sharp starter kits, and the two biggest complaints have been no .325 chain and the price. It looks like Oregon, and its distributor network are working on addressing both issues. I'll continue to stock them, and sell the hell out of them.


----------



## BlacknTan (Sep 16, 2011)

I'm not knocking the system, but I just wish I could figure out how it works..

In a past life, I was a Tool&Die Maker. 40 years of it, so cutting edges are my baby!
We're all used to sharpening chain from the bottom up, so to speak. This system appears to sharpen from the top down.
The top of a traditional link has clearance toward the back. The top is in a downward angle from the face back. So we sharpen the radius back from the front and under the cutting edge to form a sharp wedge.
The cutters on the Oregon "system" chain seem severely angled on top toward the back, and the stone forms a radius as the chain runs around the nose of the bar against it. This radius, I assume is what forms the top clearance to provide wedging action. But, Is iot a true wedge, or is there a small area that rubs because the radius on the top of the cutter comes up on tangent? Not a 100% _true_ wedging action.
Further, I don't see the "dressing link" as sufficient to dress the stone and keep the top cutting edge of the cutters flat, as the chain and stone wear together. To my way of thinking, the stone should be dressed across the full surface to provide a new cutting (or semi-cutting) edge to the chain. The chain and stone will degrade and deform together with each sharpening.
Now, all this may make little difference to the average user. He is still getting a reasonably sharp chain with a simple system that anyone can use. But, sharp is sharp, and no matter how small an area that just rubs, it's not sharp. 
I may be all wrong in my assumptions about this, but I just can't wrap my head around how this system can provide a true cutting edge by matching radii between stone and cutter.. and even then in the first moments ofv the first sharpening until stone and cutter deform each other.

In any case.. this thread is interesting reading.


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (Sep 16, 2011)

*Past Thread explains some details on Powersharp*

BlackTan

Just like you a lot of AS members had questions on PowerSharp chain when it first came out. There is an old thread that addresses many of the questions about the PowerSharp chain. The explainations begin on page 3.


http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/125402-4.htm


----------



## BlacknTan (Sep 16, 2011)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> BlackTan
> 
> Just like you a lot of AS members had questions on PowerSharp chain when it first came out. There is an old thread that addresses many of the questions about the PowerSharp chain. The explainations begin on page 3.
> 
> ...


 


Thanks!

I'm looking forward to learning more about the system..


----------



## Philbert (Sep 16, 2011)

_EDIT: This is a repaired link to the thread PowerSharp Eng referenced in Post#143, above:_
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-powersharp.125402/



BlacknTan said:


> I'm not knocking the system, but I just wish I could figure out how it works..! . . . We're all used to sharpening chain from the bottom up, so to speak. This system appears to sharpen from the top down. . . .I may be all wrong in my assumptions about this, but I just can't wrap my head around how this system can provide a true cutting edge by matching radii between stone and cutter. . .



I was pretty skeptical at first. Partially, because it violated everything I had learned about chain design, as you note, and partially, because I had an earlier version of the chain (20+ years ago) that only worked 'so-so'.

As for the cutting angle thing, I think about woodworking planes - smooth and block models. One cuts with the plane bevel face up, one with the plane bevel face down. They both cut the wood grain, but at different angles.

Theory aside, Oregon provided me with a sample to test, and it worked. I posted some of the early reviews here on A.S. I would not say that the PowerSharp chain is ideal for every need, but for general cutting it seems to work in a number of situations.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Oct 6, 2011)

*On the Belt, On the Job*

Their slogan is, '_On the Saw, On the Job, In Seconds_'. But you can't sharpen the chain if you don't have the bar-end cassette with you. So, I have been keeping an eye out for a suitable belt pack to carry it.

Found this one at a garage sale, and have seen a similar one at Menard's. Fits pretty well. Looks like it might also work for smaller (8") wedges . Was also going to look at Army surplus stores, but haven't made it to any when they were open.

I think that an OEM version could include some improvements and make the PowerSharp system easier to use:

- make it simpler, without all the extra pockets that are not needed, and which will collect sawdust, etc.;

- put some holes in the bottom to let sawdust out;

- add a strap over the top with a Fastex type buckle to keep the cassette from falling out;

- add a sleeve on each side, with a Velcro flap, to carry a scrench.

Philbert


----------



## s219 (Oct 6, 2011)

You can get those belt pouches at Northern Tool for about $5. I bought one about two weeks ago. I found they can hold 2-3 wedges (8" max length as noted, but a 10 could work if you don't mind it sticking up a bit). There is also a decent place for a scrench in some narrow elastic sleeves inside the largest opening. Finally, a light hatchet hangs from the loop very nicely. The pouch comes with two sizes of belt loops and a metal clip (which I removed). The larger loop fits the belt on my Labonville chaps perfectly.


----------



## tallfarmboy (Jan 1, 2012)

Thought I would dig this thread out of the cellar... In the Christmas giving thread, Philbert so kindly gifted a "slightly used" 16" Powersharp B&C to me! Thank you very much Philbert... Well, I wanted to share my experience with this cutting system.

First, I am using this bar and chain with an MS170 Stihl... not exactly a powerhouse of a saw... I have used it on 3 different trips cutting firewood and have been pleasantly surprised with the results. 
The chain looks like it would be very aggressive and overly grabby in the wood with a small saw, but it turned out to be a very smooth and predictable chain in the wood. I have used it to limb a lot of hackberry, a lot of dead elm, and a little hedge here in SW MO. The chain loves the Hackberry... very smooth, big chips, and the saw (30cc) handled it very well. The dead elm and hedge were much harder wood and the lack of power in my saw showed it. From a chain hardness standpoint, this chain holds an edge VERY well. I don't know how many cuts I have made with it, but it is still throwing big chips. I did sharpen the chain one time just to see how it was done and, WOW that was easy... Judging by the amount of wear on the sharpening stone, I would guess I could get 12-15 sharpenings out of this chain. 

Realize that the MS170 is nowhere near my "go-to" saw, but with this bar/chain on it, it has moved up in the pecking order a little in my opinion. It is pretty nice to not have to worry about having a file around and it is very easy to keep track of the sharpening tool by keeping it on the tip of your saw.
I think I'm going to MM this saw or maybe even do a little porting to it to utilize this bar/chain a little more.. 

Thanks again Philbert!
TFB


----------



## Fish (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes, the saw I put mine on was a Poulan Pro that ran a .325 chain, and the extra power make the powersharp sing!.


----------



## KiwiBro (Jan 4, 2012)

Edge & Engine said:


> We have had many requests from arborist/tree service companies for PowerSharp units, but the problem is compatibility, like Philbert mentioned, PowerSharp being currently limited to 3/8" low profile severely limits its application among professional users, who use saws like Stihl MS260, Husqvarna 346XP etc. Word is, around March they will have the .325 version out, adding compatibility for Oregon K095, D025 and D009 bar mounts. (I'm not 100% on the D009 mount, it may have been a typo, I don't know as I've ever seen a saw with a D009 mount that uses .325, although you could always convert it). Also, there's a big price drop on PowerSharp units being rolled out.


Thanks.
I can see the case where owners would rather not muck about training or relying on, staff to sharpen properly and keep a sharp edge whenever practical. PowerSharp does subscribe to the KISS mantra in that regard and could very well end up saving enough time/hassle and being relatively productive to be worth it, but I do suspect that might only apply in comparison to the edge maintenance and sharpening work of mostly slack or incompetent staff, or speciality uses where one would otherwise be forever grinding rocked/nailed/metalled chains. This suspicion is obviously from someone who has never used the PowerSharp system, so I wouldn't call it a fully informed/experienced suspicion.

Until I become aware of switched-on people here down under cutting the sorts of woods we have (apart from Pinus Radiata) and raving about their PowerSharp system and the time/money/hassle it saves them, this Luddite will probably stick with his 'never run 'em dull, two-chain plan' (3/8LP .050 on all saws from MS241C down and 3/8 .063 on all others).

Again, as always, I'm happy to be proven wrong.


----------



## dboyd351 (Feb 21, 2012)

*Powersharp combo discounted @ Home Depot*

Just thought I'd pass on a Powersharp update. I was in Home Depot yesterday and walked by the outdoor power equipment section for a look see. The Powersharp kits that include the bar, chain and sharpener were marked down to $25 for the 14 inch size!!! I had just bought a 14" non-Powersharp Oregon brand bar and chain combo (combo #27856) at Lowes for $30. Both units were for small Poulan/Echo/Homelite, etc. applications. The 14" bar Stihl combos were the same price. 

The Powersharp combos had a yellow sticker over the old price tag, which looked like it was indicating a sale price.


----------



## rockandroller (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi all - and THANKS - this thread has been very helpful for me.

Total chainsaw noob here - bought an Echo 370 at HomeDepot, which seemed to come with the dullest, sloppiest OEM chain ever. Read the books, watched manufacturer's videos, set up the thing meticulously, carefully tightened as per instructions, etc etc. Wasted several hours trying to fell a few little birches with it. Cut down a few, but the chain kept stretching and slipping off, broke several drive teeth, smoked the bar a little. 

Time to buy a new chain! 

HomeDepot only offers the $12 chinese cheapo chains (probably what was on the saw originally) and I considered driving to the other side of town and paying $24 to get an Oregon chain instead. But then I realized I needed a sharpening set anyway, and - not wanting to risk putting a new chain on a slightly mangled bar - I decided to try the Powersharp system. (Since it comes with a new bar *and * a "sharpening kit"!)

Off to CanadianTire... and $80 bucks later, got the saw running again, now with Powersharp bar and chain. 

Wow.

Like night and day. Not much stretching, took maybe 20 minutes to break-in the chain so it held tension. *Excellent *cutting performance. (Noticeably faster cutting than the stock chain provided when it was brand spanking new.)

I ran through two tanks of gas today, cut down about two dozen ice-bent birches (3-6 inch trunks) and bucked a couple of them before the second tank of gas ran out. Last cut seemed as clean as the first, lots of big square chips. This chain was tad more "grabby" than the stock chain, but easy enough to get used to for me. I like it a lot.
It will be interesting to see when I'll finally get to try out the sharpener ( maybe tomorrow?).

Incidentally, I have to say I'm liking this ECHO saw a lot. Lightweight, easy starting and it idles nice and smooth.


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 19, 2012)

rockandroller said:


> Hi all - and THANKS - this thread has been very helpful for me.
> 
> Total chainsaw noob here - bought an Echo 370 at HomeDepot, which seemed to come with the dullest, sloppiest OEM chain ever. Read the books, watched manufacturer's videos, set up the thing meticulously, carefully tightened as per instructions, etc etc. Wasted several hours trying to fell a few little birches with it. Cut down a few, but the chain kept stretching and slipping off, broke several drive teeth, smoked the bar a little.
> 
> ...



Welcome to AS!

IMO...you'll like how the chain cuts after a sharpening! I'm using the system on my Pouland 2550. I feel it does a great job!


----------



## Philbert (Nov 19, 2012)

*Light Storm Damage Clean-up*

Helped a friend today cleaning up some trees from a wind event a week or so ago. Used the 40V Oregon saw with the PowerSharp system on wood up to about 6 inches in diameter, and a 16" PowerSharp bar & chain on my electric Makita chainsaw for the bigger stuff.

The chains cut aggressively through the wood. Had to noodle some of the bigger, crotch sections. My friend thinks that the trees were box elder. I really like PowerSharp / electric chainsaw combination for cutting like this.

Philbert

P.S. - so much for not being 'real' saws and chains!

_(EDIT - replaced lost photos - should be similar to originals)








_


----------



## Philbert (Dec 17, 2012)

Had a couple of PowerSharp questions sent to me by PM, so I thought I would post some of the info / tips here for others as well.

1. The PowerSharp chain has chisel cutters that actually bite fairly aggressively. Apparently, some people assume that it is a wimpy homeowner product that can't cut well.

2. The bevels on the cutters are 'upside down', but they are still chromed on the back side. Like the bevels on woodworking planes: block planes and smooth planes are opposite of each other, but each cuts if properly sharpened, and if the depth gauges are properly set.

3. The PowerSharp chain and stone need to be thought of as a matched pair, due to the wear pattern that develops. This may be obvious if you only have it on one saw. But if you have it on multiple saws, or cut with a friend who also uses it, you don't want to switch between different stones/cassettes. I marked the name of each saw on mine with labeling tape to keep them straight. When you replace a chain, replace the stone, and vice-versa.

4. For the same reason, always mount the sharpening cassette the same way on the bar. I always mount it with the lever on the same side as the bar nuts - easy for me to remember.

Philbert


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (Dec 18, 2012)

*Where's the chrome at?*



Philbert said:


> Had a couple of PowerSharp questions sent to me by PM, so I thought I would post some of the info / tips here for others as well.
> ........
> 2. The bevels on the cutters are 'upside down', but they are still chromed on the back side. Like the bevels on woodworking planes: block planes and smooth planes are opposite of each other, but each cuts if properly sharpened, and if the depth gauges are properly set.
> ..........
> Philbert



Thanks Philbert for posting the answers you gave to the PM's. The answers are right on track.

I wanted to add some detail to number 2 for those AS members that are curious about how the chrome layer works on the PowerSharp cutters.

The PowerSharp cutter is chromed on the twisted section that supports the cutting edges as shown in the picture.









The chrome on a PowerSharp cutter experiences forces from the wood that pushes it against the base steel so it does not chip off as fast and stays on longer, as shown in the picture . 









Whereas the chrome on a standard cutter experiences forces from the wood that tends to push the chrome off the base steel in the form of very small flakes, as shown in the picture below.







Getting large pictures is a tricky process.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 18, 2012)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> How do I get the pictures larger???



Just ask!

Philbert

_(EDIT - Hopefully PowerSharpEng can replace these lost illustrations)_


----------



## zogger (Dec 18, 2012)

*@powersharp engineer*

I believe, not sure, but believe, if you try to embed a picture that is too large, it only posts as a thumnail. I think your pics are just too large. Scale them down in half, then repost embedded, see what happens.


----------



## dboyd351 (Dec 18, 2012)

Philbert said:


> Just ask!
> 
> Philbert



Sure seems like that would help the chrome stay on better.


----------



## zogger (Dec 18, 2012)

Hey Philbert, you ever try hand filing one of those yet? I havent, just wondering. I kept my worn out one, I need to look real close at it.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 18, 2012)

zogger said:


> Hey Philbert, you ever try hand filing one of those yet? I havent, just wondering. I kept my worn out one, I need to look real close at it.



Nope. No plans to. I suppose that if I was stuck on the mythical desert island with my saw, dull chain, a file, fresh 2-cycle mix, and no sharpening cassette, I might try.

(PS - don't throw out out your worn one Zog - spin off the diamond links and give them to the missus!)

Philbert


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Dec 18, 2012)

Fish said:


> Yes, the saw I put mine on was a Poulan Pro that *ran a .325 chain*, and the extra power make the powersharp sing!.



Phil

Here's the answer to the question about PowerSharp being only .375 pitch. I didn't think I was loosing it. Yet anyways!  I hadn't pulled mine to check it.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Fish
> Yes, the saw I put mine on was a Poulan Pro that ran a .325 chain, and the extra power make the powersharp sing!.





manyhobies said:


> Phil Here's the answer to the question about PowerSharp being only .375 pitch.



I read that as the good Dr. Fish taking a saw that had previously been set up to run .325 chain and fitted it with a 3/8LP sprocket to test the chain. Fish?

I know that when I got my demo chain the Oregon people were specific about not running it on too large of a saw. Apparently, 3/8 low pro chain, in general, is only recommended for saws up to around 42cc and bars up to 18 inches. 

Philbert


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Jan 28, 2013)

bump for the new guys


----------



## bigblackdodge (Feb 21, 2013)

*My Initial Opinions*

Hey Gang, thanks to a Great AS member, I now have a 16" PS system on my little MS170.
View attachment 280675
View attachment 280677

Now I've already Modded the Muffler on this saw some time back, so despite being only 30cc's, it does run out pretty well for what it is. I mainly use this saw for limbing and cutting up the tops as it's lighter than my MS290 and 038. I finally got the chance to use this setup on a big scaffold branch from a Curly Maple late last month. This scaffold branch, which was 24" at the crotch end, had broken at the crotch over a year ago, but it didn't break free from the trunk and the end limbs, touching the ground, kept the rest of it suspended to season out very nicely.  I ran about 1 1/3 tanks of fuel through the saw with this setup on it. Never rocked it, never touched the sharpening cassette, and was pretty impressed that it performed just like it's advertised to. It seems to me, that it may be a tad bit faster through the cut compared to the picco micro I usually run on this saw. I couldn't get a fair comparison since the only picco micro I've got for this saw looks like this.
View attachment 280678

The chain is very aggressive compared to the Picco Micro chain, and a bit choppy IMHO. It likes to grab if you are cutting something smaller, say a 4" or smaller diameter limb and you aren't using a lot of throttle. You do have to be careful if you're cutting up this type of smaller wood out towards the bar tip and not against the saw body, as this chain will grab it and yank it to the saw body. I should have snapped some pics of the cut surface, but I had limited daylight and it was burning up quickly on me. Although the cutters working face is it's Top Plate, it does leave substantial grooves in the cut surface of the wood. I believe this is due to the point of the cutter being a bit more prominent compared to a standard cutter, and the angle looks to be a bit steeper as well. It does sever the fibers nicely and throws bigger chips than the Picco Micro. 

I used the saw from the tip of the branch, up to about 14" diameter wood. Under normal circumstances I would have switched to the MS290 sooner, but I wanted to really get a good work out with the PS system. I will honestly say, with the experience I've had so far, I am itching to use it again, and I am really looking forward to trying out an 18" .325 setup for the MS290!
View attachment 280679

I thoroughly enjoy hand filing my chains, and I will continue to do so. But this setup will remain in my working collection. I have been cutting firewood all my life. I got my first saw when I was 9 years old, I am now 37. This year my 65 year old father will be retiring, and I will buy him one of these for his new tool-less Homelite saw. He also still heats with wood, and this is the Perfect Setup for a feller like him. Of course you know who, keeps him well stocked with firewood, but he does like to piddle around and cut up dead fall limbs and such.
 
I believe Oregon has figured this thing out. It's not for everyone, but it is for someone. I look forward to putting more time on it and sharing my experience with you all.

A Big Thank You to Philbert!:cool2:


----------



## dboyd351 (Feb 22, 2013)

Bigblackdodge,
Thanks for the report. Good to hear a variety of experiences with it.


----------



## nelson727 (May 29, 2013)

Was excited to get onto threads about the PowerSharp system from something Philbert said elsewhere. Have read through the pages of at least two threads and have a single question remaining. Is this a functional chain for homeowner use from new to dead?

A year ago I was given a complete system with two new chains to try out by one of my favorite saw shops. He didn’t think he was going to stock it and asked if I would give it a try and let him know. I ran it on a 16 in. saw cutting some pier posts that had been pulled out of silt. I made some cuts until I needed to sharpen it three different times and after that it pulled too much to the side to be workable so I put normal chain back on the saw and finished out a truck load with file sharpening and normal chain. I have not been back to it since. I do recall seeing the sharpening ‘stone’ to have a deep sadly misshapen groove.

My hopes for the chain were that it would work satisfactorily and that I could
recommend it to my tree service customers as a workable alternative to risking life and limb pushing down hard on dull chain because they did not want to take their saw in to be sharpened at the saw shop. Also if it was passable to use I would have been happy to carry a set up in the truck for the rare occasions where I choose to cut through roots, sharpen, cut, resharpen etc..

Has anyone found this to be a workable system that would cut roughly similarly from new to chain used up 10+ sharpenings latter?


----------



## Philbert (May 29, 2013)

nelson727 said:


> . . .I made some cuts until I needed to sharpen it three different times and after that it pulled too much to the side to be workable . . .



Any chance you still have the chain? Can you post photos of the cutters and the stone?

One of reps who brought PowerSharp chains to a GTG mentioned the tendency for guide bars to flex when people press their saws into the sharpening cassette. He told us to watch for this and to keep the bar straight. He also told us to be sure to mount the sharpening cassette on the bar the same way each time. I wonder if either of these could have been a factor in the uneven sharpening?

I have run it on several saws, but none down to the nubs (yet). I have sharpened some 6+ times with good results, but there could be some differences in counting between 'touch up' and 'bringing-it-back-from-the-dead' sharpenings. The only chain I had an issue with was the first one, that we intentionally ground into some concrete, just 'to test it'. Those cutters did not look even, but kept cutting; not as good as the PowerSharp chains that I did not abuse, but I did not notice pulling to the side.

Back to your 'single remaining question' - how many sharpenings would an average homeowner get from a conventional chain? 10 sharpenings, or using a chain completely up, sounds more like a somewhat knowledgeable/skilled user. A lot of guys toss chains with life left in them, but factor in the cost of having the chain sharpened by a shop or hardware store ($7 or so?). So at 2 sharpenings the cost between a conventional chain and a PowerSharp chain and stone is probably about the same. Any more and the user is ahead.

But the other issue is convenience. Not having to stop work, not having to swap chains, not having to take the chain in, etc., can be a real advantage for someone without the skill, ability, or desire to sharpen in the field. Just like a file, the sharpening cassette can be used to maintain a sharp edge with very little skill or effort.

Philbert


----------



## nelson727 (May 30, 2013)

Philbert, thank you so much for your well thought out and thoughtful reply. 

I do have the chain and will take pictures of stone as well to post. I may have turned the cassette over between sharpenings and I don’t think so but, may have pushed on bar hard enough to flex. I will put on new chain and stone and try from fresh to see how many sharpenings I can get and how efficiently it cuts on the latter sharpenings using correct technique.

I would like for this to work and to be able to recommend it to my customers. I cant tell you how many times I have had some rancher/farmer homeowner around and my saw will run out of gas and he will say here try mine, no use mine. I start to make one cut and then feel rude as I walk way back over to my truck to fill up.


----------



## AuerX (May 30, 2013)

Sorry guys for being somewhat noobish but is there a 12" powersharp starter kit for a Stihl 020 AV Super?

Thanks

Eric


----------



## dboyd351 (May 30, 2013)

nelson727 said:


> I ran it on a 16 in. saw cutting some pier posts that had been pulled out of silt. I made some cuts until I needed to sharpen it three different times and after that it pulled too much to the side to be workable Also if it was passable to use I would have been happy to carry a set up in the truck for the rare occasions where I choose to cut through roots, sharpen, cut, resharpen etc..




Nelson727,
I think your experience with the Powersharp system is more due to how you used it than the system itself. I've flush-cut a tree with a normal chain and it wouldn't cut anywhere near straight after I did that. With a file you can selectively sharpen the cutters that need it and bring that chain back to fairly normal cutting. Sounds like from what you described as the look of the Powersharp stone, that it took a "set" and wouldn't sharpen well after that. 

I'd suggest if you want to see how the system works for the average person, you use it for normal cutting, not cutting posts full of silt or roots. Most people I know only use their old, beat-up chains for such things, because they know it will ruin the chain.


----------



## Philbert (May 30, 2013)

Finnman said:


> Sorry guys for being somewhat noobish but is there a 12" powersharp starter kit for a Stihl 020 AV Super?



Eric,

Check the Oregon consumer web site - they have a PowerSharp fit/application list. Some of the retail outlets only stock a limited selection. If you find it on the website you should be able to order one from any Oregon dealer.

Philbert


----------



## nelson727 (Jun 5, 2013)

Philbert here are pictures of stone and chain as per your request in post #168.

View attachment 298766
View attachment 298768
View attachment 298770
View attachment 298771


Have since gone on to test new chain and stone combo and will try to post satisfactory results next.


----------



## nelson727 (Jun 5, 2013)

How many pictures do you/the forum/the thread want put up to show progression of testing a chain from new to nearly used up? I have about 16 that could be of interest.


dboyd351 I now think you are right that it was more the way I used it. Am going to keep that chain and stone combo and try sharpening it again. I highly suspect I just need to clean it up a bit more and then I will be able to get more life out of it.

I like your description about salvaging a chain and only using old beat up (run out) chain when it comes to normally filed chain. One of the reasons I have hoped that the PowerSharp system would work well is that when I have done this in the past I have found the cutters to be work hardened and thus difficult to file back to acceptable sharp. The PS system seems to promise a work around on this for me by using the stone and saw to do the hard work.


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (Jun 5, 2013)

nelson727 said:


> Philbert here are pictures of stone and chain as per your request in post #168.
> 
> View attachment 298766
> 
> ...


----------



## nelson727 (Jun 5, 2013)

PowerSharp Eng, Thank you for addressing my pictures and yes I will get a picture that shows the right hand cutters as you asked. Though I must tell you that I am already looking forward to telling my tree service customers that this is the answer for them. To have a good cutting saw and be able to get back to that easily when they hit the ground as they do occasional clean up and chainsaw use is what most of them would want.

I took Philbert’s thoughts to heart as I tried a new chain and stone combo. So I kept the release latch on the bar nut side and made sure the bar did not flex. That seemed to do the trick and the chain performed admirably through use to dull and ten separate sharpenings/cycles.

Thanks again for the explanation of how things work on this combo. I like to understand the basics of things. When a ‘long timer’ posts and gives me an idea of how many pictures to put up, I will understand if you avert your eyes from the monitor. I did bad things with your beautiful creation.


----------



## dboyd351 (Jun 6, 2013)

nelson727 said:


> I must tell you that I am already looking forward to telling my tree service customers that this is the answer for them. To have a good cutting saw and be able to get back to that easily when they hit the ground as they do occasional clean up and chainsaw use is what most of them would want.



I think you may well be right about this being the answer for the occasional user. It is certainly a big advantage to be able to sharpen a chain so quickly and get back to efficient cutting. Thanks to you and Philbert for doing such an objective job of testing them. I bought one, but have hardly used it so far.

Just so you know, there can be a huge disparity in prices for the setup. I got my chain/bar/sharpener combo for something like $35 (the 14 inch small Craftsman/Poulan/Echo version), but you often see them priced at around $70. I got mine on sale at a big box store. You see them on sale on fleabay, too.


----------



## Philbert (Jun 6, 2013)

I am glad that PSE was able to chime in - I am on an iPhone and can barely see the photos!

Philbert


----------



## nelson727 (Jul 2, 2013)

Wanted to say thanks for the help so generously given by members here and post some results I found.

I put on a new 14 inch Power Sharp chain and installed a new stone in the cassette. My intention was to use the roots/stump on the neighbors property as a way to make cuts and accomplish something while sharp and also dull the chain quickly enough to not spend an excessive amount of time on this test. 

My initial premiss was that if I could dull the chain and sharpen it 10 times and have the chain cut acceptably the whole time I then could feel good about recommending this product to my tree service customers as a solution for their chainsaw occasional use needs.


View attachment 302832


Each time It was dull I scored a mark on a piece of plywood right after sharpening. I kept the latch of the sharpening cassette on the same side of the saw each time I used it and made sure not to push down on the sharpening ‘foot’ hard enough to flex the bar.

View attachment 302833


After having dulled the chain and sharpened the 10th time I cut some small pancakes off a piece of firewood. This chain is still in serviceable condition and will see more use when I have a job some time where I need to cut dirty wood.

View attachment 302834



This chain/sharpener combo performed above my expectations for the abuse I put it through. I will heartily recommend it to those who do not sharpen their own chains. Even though I do all of my own hand sharpening, on the occasions where I must cut roots or dirty wood, this system will be a big time saver for me.

I have already purchased three new chain/stone combos for my 14 inch bar and two new 16 inch bar and chain combos. As someone said above prices vary widely.


----------



## AuerX (Jul 2, 2013)

Thanks for a nice review!

Eric


----------



## Philbert (Jul 2, 2013)

If you look at my original comments when trying the PS chain, my first impulse was to see how it held up to abuse - stuff I would not intentionally do with a 'normal' chain. 

If you run this chain the same way that you run normal chain I think that you will find it performs and holds up very favorably, in addition to the sharpening feature. 

Philbert


----------



## dboyd351 (Jul 2, 2013)

Nelson727,
Thanks for the stump cutting report. Good to know how the system performs under a variety of circumstances. I've only used mine to limb one large Hickory, about 1/2 hour of straight cutting. It did very well on that, including some cuts where the 14 inch bar was buried, using an Echo 310, only a 30cc saw - obviously not pushing it too hard. At that point it was time to break out the bigger saw and the chain wasn't very dull yet. So initial impressions were pretty good, but I haven't gone thru the dull/sharpen cycle to test that. The new chain felt a little grabby, if anything, but cut well.


----------



## Showme (Jul 2, 2013)

Interesting thread. I just bought a Poulan S25CVA that has a PowerSharp bar/chain system on it and was just going to pitch it. Seems that would be a little hasty. Now I'm kinda anxious to try it out.


----------



## KiwiBro (Jul 2, 2013)

Has anyone at least tried milling with this chain yet?


----------



## dboyd351 (Jul 2, 2013)

Showme said:


> Interesting thread. I just bought a Poulan S25CVA that has a PowerSharp bar/chain system on it and was just going to pitch it. Seems that would be a little hasty. Now I'm kinda anxious to try it out.



I know very little about the older Powersharp system, but it is supposed to be very different than the current Powersharp offering. The earlier version was not very well received. Search Powersharp on here and you should find the thread discussing it.

The old Powersharp you have on that S25CVA probably won't cut very well, but may be worth something as a collectors item since most owners threw theirs away long ago and they are now hard to find as a complete system, I believe.


----------



## Showme (Jul 3, 2013)

dboyd351 said:


> I know very little about the older Powersharp system, but it is supposed to be very different than the current Powersharp offering. The earlier version was not very well received. Search Powersharp on here and you should find the thread discussing it.
> 
> The old Powersharp you have on that S25CVA probably won't cut very well, but may be worth something as a collectors item since most owners threw theirs away long ago and they are now hard to find as a complete system, I believe.



It isn't the old PowerSharp on the S25CVA. It's the new bar/chain/cassette version.


----------



## dboyd351 (Jul 3, 2013)

Showme said:


> It isn't the old PowerSharp on the S25CVA. It's the new bar/chain/cassette version.



OK. I assumed it was the old version because I had a micro that came with the original Powersharp. Glad you got the new one - much better, I think.


----------



## bigblackdodge (Jul 3, 2013)

*In regards to Milling with the Power Sharp system.*



KiwiBro said:


> Has anyone at least tried milling with this chain yet?



I don't currently do any milling work, but with my experience with this PS system it will leave a much rougher surface than conventional chain does. It noodles very well! But I've not tried to cut anything in the ripping alignment so I can't comment on how it would do. The rougher surface it leaves on the face of cut wood reminds me a lot of old barn wood.


----------



## rocketnorton (Jul 3, 2013)

Showme said:


> Interesting thread. I just bought a Poulan S25CVA that has a PowerSharp bar/chain system on it and was just going to pitch it. Seems that would be a little hasty. Now I'm kinda anxious to try it out.



+1. mine was a freebie yesterday. is craftsman version...


----------



## rocketnorton (Jul 3, 2013)

got ahead of myself when I read same thought as mine... I have the old system, and was gonna pitch it too, get a "normal" clutch cover & b/c. I may try the Oregon set on this saw now after what ive read here.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 3, 2013)

rocketnorton said:


> got ahead of myself when I read same thought as mine... I have the old system, and was gonna pitch it too, get a "normal" clutch cover & b/c. I may try the Oregon set on this saw now after what ive read here.



Make sure that you only use the new '_bar end sharpening cassette_' with the _new_ chain. As I understand it, the old and new systems are not compatible.

I have a 20+ year old Sears electric that came with the 'old' system. After the first chain wore out I removed the spring loaded stone (was round, like a tube of lipstick) and mounted a conventional chain. When this new system came out, I had to start with the 'starter kit' (bar, chain, stone, cassette) so that everything meets at the right angle, curvature, etc.

If you get the new system, maybe try and post a photo of the old and new chain side by side so that we can see the difference in the teeth?

Philbert


----------



## rocketnorton (Jul 3, 2013)

will do... gives me incentive to keep saw [lookin] original. chains look similar but sure side by side there are diffs... will leave on but not use old set up w/new b/c. may have to take paint job off new ps bar...


----------



## rocketnorton (Jul 3, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Make sure that you only use the new 'bar end sharpening cassette' with the new chain. A I understand it, the old and new systems are not compatible.
> 
> I have a 20+ year old Sears electric that came with the 'old' system. After the first chain wore out I removed the spring loaded stone (was round, like a tube of lipstick) and mounted a conventional chain. When this new system came out, I had to start with the 'starter kit' (bar, chain, stone, cassette) so that everything meets at the right angle, curvature, etc.
> 
> ...



heres pics of saw & chain...View attachment 303046
View attachment 303048
View attachment 303050


----------



## Philbert (Jul 3, 2013)

_EDIT: Here is a sketch of the older PowerSharp chain, (aka 'Barracuda chain') to replace the missing photo:




And a stock photo:


_

That's a classic!

Philbert


----------



## dboyd351 (Jul 4, 2013)

rocketnorton said:


> heres pics of saw & chain...View attachment 303046
> View attachment 303048
> View attachment 303050



WOW! Look at the angle of the cutters on that last photo!


----------



## moparman (Jul 4, 2013)

dboyd351 said:


> I know very little about the older Powersharp system, but it is supposed to be very different than the current Powersharp offering. The earlier version was not very well received. Search Powersharp on here and you should find the thread discussing it.
> 
> The old Powersharp you have on that S25CVA probably won't cut very well, but may be worth something as a collectors item since most owners threw theirs away long ago and they are now hard to find as a complete system, I believe.



The original Oregon powersharp chain designation 91TS (circa 1980) worked fine and sharpened good when used with chainsaws equipped with rotating round sharpening stone system - eg. McCulloch mini-mac series, Poulan Micro series, etc. The problem was with sharpener systems with curved stone shaped like the current Oregon sharpener stone. You had to move the stone lever sideways back and forth to get a consistent sharpen, plus some ham-fisted people thought that if a little stone contact with cutter was good, then a lot of contact would be better and destroyed their chains - also the glued bond between stone and backing lever was not the greatest and the stone or pieces would break off. McCulloch sold a great many powersharp equipped saws at the time. Sears felt that it was such a good feature that virtually all their saws were equipped with powersharp chain - at this time Sears sold a lot of chainsaws.
91TS chain would cut faster than any of Oregon's other mini chains at the time. The *problem* was the *very high kickback* from the 91TS chain - it would not meet the 1985 UL kickback standard for consumer saws (or for that matter wouldn't meet standard for professional saws under 3.8 cu in either). They had no option but to cease selling 91TS chain.
At a later date Oregon introduced 91LX powersharp chain with a very long bumper on drive link. Evidently the only testing done by Oregon was kickback testing. This chain was crap - it didn't cut as good as 91TS, but it's major problem was that after you sharpened the chain , you couldn't cut wood. They screwed up the cutter geometry so that the stone sharpened the cutters and depth gauge to same height.
Needless to say, this chain was not very popular and gave powersharp chain a bad name.
Oregon finally figured out how to correct cutter geometry and made bumper on drive link much smaller so that it did not interfere so much with sharpening; and from photos it appears that the curved stone is offset to bar nose radius so depth gauge is not eliminated during sharpening. Oregon tried to get the saw manufacturers interested in their latest design but wanted to sell the stone and plastic with chain to them at too high a price. No interest so they are selling it to retailers - retail price much more that should be.


----------



## moparman (Jul 4, 2013)

dboyd351 said:


> WOW! Look at the angle of the cutters on that last photo!



That is not the original powersharp 91TS chain used on the Craftsman branded Poulan S25, that is the 91LX chain. Great photo illustrating why 91LX can't be sharpened - the bumper drivelink is in the way of depth gauge preventing depth gauge from being ground down. I realize that photo shows nose of bar, but it is basically same radius as the chain supported by chainsaw drive sprocket when it is being sharpened.


----------



## SawTroll (Jul 4, 2013)

Just forget that thing, if you have the slightest clue about sharpening a chain. It is made for those that don't, and of course to make money at their expence!


----------



## old guy (Jul 4, 2013)

I had one of those Sears-Roper saws back in the 70's with that sharpener built in and the thing I remember the most was that chain would grab small twigs, branches and switches and smack them back in my face, that didn't happen with regular chain, couldn,t wait to replace it.

John


----------



## dboyd351 (Jul 4, 2013)

Moparman,
Thanks for the information.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 15, 2014)

_UPDATE: Went back in and replaced most of my photos which had been lost. Anyone else who posted, please see if there are any you can replace as well._

As a side note: My local Menard's has the PowerSharp starter set (bar, chain, sharpening cassette, and stone) on sale/clearance for under $30 right now.

This is about what you would pay for a conventional Oregon bar and chain of the same quality from Menard's.

The replacement chain/stone kits are under $16.

Good deal for someone interested in trying it.

Philbert


----------



## dboyd351 (Mar 15, 2014)

Philbert said:


> Local Menard's has the PowerSharp starter set (bar, chain, sharpening cassette, and stone) on sale/clearance for under $30.
> 
> This is about what you would pay for a conventional Oregon bar and chain of the same quality from Menard's.
> 
> ...



Yep, that's a good deal. Home Depott has had them at about that price before.
If you try one, make sure you press the bar very straight when you go to sharpen it. I recently used one and when I sharpened it, I pressed it against a crowned road surface (thinking I'd ensure I wasn't throwing sparks in the dry woods). The saw, which cut straight before the sharpening, started pulling to the side after it was sharpened. Only thing I can figure is I accidently sharpened one side more than the other when it pressed against the crowned road.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 15, 2014)

dboyd351 said:


> If you try one, make sure you press the bar very straight when you go to sharpen it.



Check out my summary of pointers in Post #118.

By the way, I have continued to use the PowerSharp chain on a few of my saws and continue to have good results. 

On the first chain we had the irresistible impulse to grind it into concrete and see if we could restore it. I also demonstrated the sharpener to many interested parties. On later loops, I treated it like I would any other chain - i.e. I tried to avoid hitting any rocks, metal, concrete, etc. I sharpened it when I noticed a decrease in cutting efficiency. These loops have lasted much longer!

Philbert


----------



## AuerX (Apr 9, 2014)

Man, No deals like that in my neck of the woods


----------



## AuerX (Apr 25, 2014)

Well I got one for mu Stihl 020 Super.

Will try it out over the weekend.


----------



## XSKIER (Apr 25, 2014)

Sounds great! But I can't see it. Could you please pm it to me?


----------



## AuerX (Apr 25, 2014)

Fixed the image link, Sorry!


----------



## XSKIER (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks. I think it's fantastic!


----------



## dboyd351 (Apr 25, 2014)

Let us know how it does, especially after you re-sharpen it a few times! Looks like the perfect saw for that chain set-up.


----------



## AuerX (Apr 25, 2014)

dboyd351 said:


> Let us know how it does, especially after you re-sharpen it a few times! Looks like the perfect saw for that chain set-up.



I intend to keep updating on how the system works. And yes, I thought it would make a nice combo too.


----------



## AuerX (May 11, 2014)

Ok....

Used it for a while today to cut up some Pine (Fir?) and Apple that was on the ground from storms. (Been there for a while)

Straight out of the box the B&C works great, No issues what so ever.

As the chain got less and less sharp from all the dirt, It still threw some nice chips until it just got too tired and needed a sharpening.

Sharpening was stupid easy and real fast. Real fast.

I probably was a little too cautious on the sharpening and could have leaned in to the saw more on that, But it still took a nice edge and felt pretty much like new again.

I will actually cut down a few damaged trees soon and plan on using this combo. Just for fun.

So far so good from a homeowner/Landowner who in no way what so ever is a "Pro" in anything related to chainsaws. 

My WheelHorse 310-8 Pulled a few carts today to the staging area where I keep wood for the outdoor pit.


----------



## Philbert (May 12, 2014)

How long you need to sharpen it depends on how dull you let it get. 

Just keep the bar straight (no bowing) when you press against the tip. And mount the sharpener the same way each time (don't flip it). 

Philbert


----------



## AuerX (May 12, 2014)

Philbert said:


> How long you need to sharpen it depends on how dull you let it get.
> 
> Just keep the bar straight (no bowing) when you press against the tip. And mount the sharpener the same way each time (don't flip it).
> 
> Philbert



Thanks Philbert, I'm trying to do just that.

Really wish they had Power sharps for more models as I find it very handy.


----------



## AuerX (May 19, 2014)

I repeat again, I really wish Oregon would make the Power Sharp system to fit more sizes, It is really handy.


----------



## Philbert (May 19, 2014)

Finnman said:


> I repeat again, I really wish Oregon would make the Power Sharp system to fit more sizes, It is really handy.



Oregon has been promising a .325 pitch version for some time now. I am also waiting for it.

Philbert


----------



## AuerX (May 19, 2014)

Philbert said:


> Oregon has been promising a .325 pitch version for some time now. I am also waiting for it.
> 
> Philbert



I really want one for my Husqvarna 340!


----------



## AuerX (Jun 6, 2014)

Got an Email from Oregon today and as Philbert stated they keep saying there will be a .325 soon...

Makes me wonder if I could make a .325 fit a 455 Rancher, Oregon does sell the Power Mate® Rim Sprocket System to make the saw .325 so why not right?

Just thoughts.


----------



## BugaBoots (Jun 6, 2014)

Recently tried the ps on my cs-400 and was surprised at how well it worked. I shortened the bar down to a 16 and like the handling better. My first chance to use it was to cut down a bar length pine. I have to say it did at least as well as the other chains I have for the saw. I was getting 2" strings. I will be interested to see how it holds up over the long haul though. If it does well I may be recommending this to a few friends that cut less frequently than I do.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk


----------



## Philbert (Jun 6, 2014)

My Echo CS-400 was offered with either an 18" or 16" bar. I am glad that I got the 16" bar - it balances and cuts well with the standard 3/8 low profile chain. I picked up a 14" PS bar and chain for it on closeout, but have not run it yet.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jun 18, 2014)

PowerSharp chain, after 3rd or 4th sharpening, on 40V battery saw, fresh maple. 

Philbert


----------



## zogger (Jun 18, 2014)

Philbert said:


> PowerSharp chain, after 3rd or 4th sharpening, on 40V battery saw, fresh maple.
> 
> Philbert
> 
> ...


----------



## AuerX (Jun 30, 2014)

I have no patience, I want more powersharp options!


----------



## zogger (Jun 30, 2014)

Finnman said:


> I have no patience, I want more powersharp options!



They have a contact on their website, shoot em an email or give em a call, see what is up.


----------



## AuerX (Jun 30, 2014)

zogger said:


> They have a contact on their website, shoot em an email or give em a call, see what is up.



I did a month ago, haha.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/powersharp.148391/page-11#post-4839475

As I said, I have no patience!!


----------



## zogger (Jun 30, 2014)

Finnman said:


> I did a month ago, haha.
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/powersharp.148391/page-11#post-4839475
> 
> As I said, I have no patience!!



The 3/8ths lowprofile won't work for you?

I kinda sorta want the opposite, full size 3/8ths.


----------



## AuerX (Jul 1, 2014)

zogger said:


> The 3/8ths lowprofile won't work for you?
> 
> I kinda sorta want the opposite, full size 3/8ths.



I have not tried. The 340 uses .325 .058 bar and chain, would be nice to convert it to take a Powersharp setup but honestly I do not know enough about that.


----------



## zogger (Jul 1, 2014)

Finnman said:


> I have not tried. The 340 uses .325 .058 bar and chain, would be nice to convert it to take a Powersharp setup but honestly I do not know enough about that.



Well, you would have to find a drive spur sprocket or rim sprocket and clutch drum setup for 3/8ths low pro. One of the sponsors might know, or someone else here. I know some of the poulans are 3/8ths low pro, maybe one of those might fit. Heck, just email oregon and ask them, they make all that stuff, including the powersharp system.


----------



## AuerX (Jul 1, 2014)

E-mailed Oregon.


----------



## BugaBoots (Jul 2, 2014)

Finnman said:


> E-mailed Oregon.


Let us know what you find out.


----------



## AuerX (Jul 2, 2014)

Well I got an answer:

_The PowerSharp system will not work on this saw. We do not offer a 3/8 sprocket and the motor mounts will not match for the bars. _

_Please let me know if you have any questions._

_Thanks,_

_Rebecca Somerville_

_Technical Customer Service _

_OCSD / Blount International_

_phone 503-653-4667/ fax 503-353-3206_

_800-223-5168 / fax 866-352-2346_

_[email protected]_


----------



## zogger (Jul 2, 2014)

Finnman said:


> Well I got an answer:
> 
> _The PowerSharp system will not work on this saw. We do not offer a 3/8 sprocket and the motor mounts will not match for the bars. _
> 
> ...



Well, that sucks. 

The easiest alternative is sell that saw, find another small saw that will fit a powersharp 3/8ths lowpro system. Give ya an excuse for a new thread, "hey, which saw to replace my husky 340, etc" Just find the list of saws they *do* cover with powersharp first. Heck, chances are good someone here will have one used.

edit: product page here/selector guide

http://powersharp.com/lookups/selguide.aspx?busid=pwrshrp&sellreg=namer&langid=eng

Just a few huskies, but you can use a bunch of poulans and echoes. Echo cs400 might be a good alternative to your 340 for a modern designed saw. If you like older saws, they have a system for a poulan s25cva and similar, those are jamup nice cutting small saws, real nice really, and can still be found cheap.

They say there they have a .325 under development, with a contact waiting list.


----------



## AuerX (Jul 2, 2014)

zogger said:


> a contact waiting list.



Where on their site did you find that list?


----------



## AuerX (Jul 2, 2014)

I was always under the impression that the 340/345/350 Husqvarna series sold well in the day so a little surprised Oregon did not come out with a Powersharp for these from the get go.

Would have been cool with a 18" bar and made a decent fast sharpening combo for all around yard/Storm cleaning for residential use I thought.


----------



## zogger (Jul 2, 2014)

Finnman said:


> Where on their site did you find that list?



Right at the link I posted, top of the page, first paragraph. Says they are working on it and a place to notify you when they are out.


Here, direct link

http://powersharp.com/powersharp_325contactus.asp

Ya, a lot of popular husky models don't have a powersharp system precisely because they shipped .325

I am still thinking a poulan 3/8ths low pro setup might be made to fit, then just a matter of making sure the adjuster holes fit, might take some grinding. guys make odd bars fit odd saws all the time around here.

Or like I said, go through a ton of models they have on that first link, pick a saw that they make a powersharp for, there's a lot.


----------



## Philbert (Oct 3, 2014)

*PowerSharp Bump (and opportunity)!*

I like the PowerSharp system. I understand that it is not for everybody, but I think that a lot of folks who would really benefit from having it on their saws are not aware of it or '_don't get it_'. That's a marketing issue for Oregon. Anyway, I have been able to score several PowerSharp starter kits (guide bar/sharpening cassette/chain/stone) and replacement chain/stone kits on clearance for under $20 at several 'big box' retailers. I have seen similar deals on eBay. In Minnesota, we call this '_a heckuva deal_'!

So, if you have been curious about PS, or know someone who would benefit from a low maintenance cutting/sharpening solution, this might be a good thing to look for (even to squirrel away for a holiday gift). As some others have noted, even if you decide after trying it that you prefer conventional chain, you still get a guide bar in the deal!

I'm still waiting for the .325 version to come out . . .

Philbert


----------



## anlrolfe (Oct 3, 2014)

Am I missing something or just a product that you either LOVE or HATE?

I've thought of this as being like Romco products and infomercials pitched by Ron Popeil.


----------



## Philbert (Oct 3, 2014)

anlrolfe said:


> Am I missing something or just a product that you either LOVE or HATE?
> 
> I've thought of this as being like Romco products and infomercials pitched by Ron Popeil.



That was actually the point of these PS threads: People who may have been skeptical, but actually trying/using the chain before making an opinion.

Philbert


----------



## Wagnerwerks (Oct 4, 2014)

Philbert asked me to show you guys some stuff I have so here you go. 
It's kind of pic heavy.


----------



## Wagnerwerks (Oct 4, 2014)

Here's some cool advertising from a few of my catalogs. Most are late 60s to early 70s. There's also a power-sharp conversion / startup kit I have a few of. It's actually in my us cleaner right now, but I have a full roll of the 404 58g chain to go with it all. Kind of a neat set.


----------



## zogger (Oct 4, 2014)

404 powersharp, wow! Had no idea. Used to have an electric craftsman with PS, and I simply don't remember the pitch, but I don't think it was 404..but..dunno. Was not a big saw but cut well and the PS system worked as advertised.


----------



## Wagnerwerks (Oct 4, 2014)

They had 3/8 lp after a while. There was a ps for all sizes at one point or another. I have owned a piece of every size.


----------



## Philbert (Oct 4, 2014)

Thanks for posting those! I had a Sears electric chainsaw that came with the older version of 3/8 low profile PowerSharp chain. And the 'new' (current) version is only available in 3/8 low pro, so I assumed that it only came in that size. .404, wow!

Also interesting to see that ad dated 1966. I bought my Sears saw in the late 80's, so I did not know how far back the PS system went.

The manual filing gauge for the old PS chain is kind of interesting. On one hand, I guess that it offers users the flexibility to sharpen the chain off of the saw. At the same time, I keep thinking of one of the FAQ's on the current PowerSharp website: '_Why would you want to take the time to hand sharpen the chain, when it can sharpen on the saw in seconds_?'




Philbert


----------



## LegDeLimber (Oct 5, 2014)

Wagnerwerks: Thanks for posting those adds. I like that Necklace one, I guess that'd be combined with black nail polish and hair dye nowdays.

That one in the shrinks office, That saw must be a four banger, so I'd say a fellow would need the horn to clear aside the slow-pokes with one or two cyls.
But the tic-tac-toe on the wall and the stick man ??
Anyone here know if that's referencing any sort of, then current, pop-culture item
or just a general way of depicting that some of my fellow nut-cases had passed through?

I'm guessing that the "barracuda" name for the powersharp chain 
was just a Sears/ Craftsman rebadging thing.


----------



## Wagnerwerks (Oct 5, 2014)

You're very welcome. I have a lot of brochures from the 60s-70s and I love the cartoons. I'll try to post more as I find them. Even my wife thinks they're cool!


----------



## Wagnerwerks (Oct 5, 2014)

There's a full roll of .404 58g. And it's price in 1973.


----------



## zogger (Oct 5, 2014)

Wagnerwerks said:


> There's a full roll of .404 58g. And it's price in 1973.



What was minimum rage then, two bucks and change an hour? 70 hours or so for a roll of chain then...of course anyone buying a whole roll was making a lot more than that, just sayin' I like thinking in terms of hours worked for stuff. 

When I first started driving as a teen, five gallons for an hour's pay at my chump change job. Five mickey d's plus fries and a shake for the same hour.


----------



## Wagnerwerks (Oct 5, 2014)

Yeah. I remember my pap telling me about how much a chain cost for his old mall. Then he told me about his cousin borrowing it to cut down a tree that turned out to be hollow and full of concrete. He was devastated. 

He told me the story while I was complaining about paying $10 @ for 20" stihl chains a few years back..lol


----------



## dboyd351 (Oct 6, 2014)

Wagnerwerks said:


> he told me about his cousin borrowing it to cut down a tree that turned out to be hollow and full of concrete



Maybe THAT's why that dead lookin tree just refused to fall down!


----------



## Wagnerwerks (Oct 6, 2014)

If only he had a powersharp


----------



## Philbert (Jan 14, 2015)

*New Pricing on Starter Kit?*

The new (2015) Oregon catalog shows the PowerSharp Starter kit (bar, chain, stone, bar-end cassette) with an MSRP of $49.95. Several vendors are listing these for less. I recall seeing these up to $70 when they were introduced a few years back. Considering the cost of a standard bar and chain, this makes the system pretty affordable.

Philbert


----------



## HarleyT (Jan 19, 2015)

Yeah, they set my uncle up with some samples, system worked pretty good....


----------



## Philbert (Mar 20, 2015)

Sa a press release that Efco is offering free PowerSharp kits on their MT3500, 3750, and 4100 saws. That is, if you can find an Efco dealer . . . .

Philbert


----------



## BugaBoots (Mar 21, 2015)

I have an efco dealer here.


----------



## Philbert (Jan 11, 2016)

Bump.

Been a while since we discussed this.

If anyone wants details, you can find them here:
http://www.google.com/patents/US20140283665

Philbert


----------



## bikemike (Jan 12, 2016)

Only power sharp I felt with is on a Remington mighty might seams to work good cut good and quickly dress a chain up with very light pressure.


----------



## wde_1978 (Jan 12, 2016)

I want a PowerSharp kit for my Sachs-Dolmar 105 & 108!
I have to find a dealer selling them.

I would also like a PowerSharp system for my Dolmar PS-6400 & PS-7900 in 3/8", but Blount claims "it is in the making, still a few years out".


----------



## bikemike (Jan 12, 2016)

wde_1978 said:


> I want a PowerSharp kit for my Sachs-Dolmar 105 & 108!
> I have to find a dealer selling them.
> 
> I would also like a PowerSharp system for my Dolmar PS-6400 & PS-7900 in 3/8", but Blount claims "it is in the making, still a few years out".


Few years ouT. By then something newer and better might come along


----------



## wde_1978 (Jan 12, 2016)

Quote:

Hello and thank you for contacting us here at Blount International, Inc.

Unfortunately, we do not offer the PowerSharp System for larger saws. The PowerSharp chain is based on our 3/8”, .050 gauge, LOW PROFILE chassis chain which is designed for the smaller cc units. With the design of the current chain, when subjected to larger cc’s and more horsepower, the chains strength is compromised. Please rest assured, you aren’t the only one asking for this!!!! We are currently in the design stage for a larger chassis PowerSharp chain, but it still is at least a couple of years out for “proto” type production. Sorry for the bad news….

Regards, 

V** G*****
Sr. Technical Services Technician
Blount, Inc


----------



## HarleyT (Jan 12, 2016)

Oregon Engineer and Powersharp Eng are both members here, but haven't logged on in a couple of years. They might check in if we keep talking about them!!!

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-powersharp.125402/


----------



## Philbert (Apr 2, 2016)

Bump.

I like Powersharp chains. But a lot of folks don't '_get'_ them. Neither do a number of retailers. 

So, occasionally there are some good closeout deals at stores, CL, eBay, etc. Good deal if you like it, or just want to try it.

Saw some starter kits (bar, sharpening cassette, chain, and stone) recently at a local farm store on clearance for $24.

Bought these NOS replacement chain/stone sets today for $10 each off CL.




Philbert


----------



## wde_1978 (Apr 3, 2016)

I envy You on those prices! 

Then again I am glad for You! 

I have yet to try my PowerSharp kit, I am saving it for a "out-of-the-box" comparison with a regular chain - I am even considering to buy a Rapid Duro chain for a triple comparison.

The PowerSharp bars are nothing special, they are a regular narrow nose Oregon with an additional hole, I already converted my 3 regular bars to PowerSharp bars. 
But I sure would like spare "PS52" chain & stone kits for 10$ each - I pay at least twice as much for a regular 52DL chain. 
Even if I were to source a deal like You did it most likely wouldn't pay off purchasing considering the over inflated shipping costs from the US to Europe.

Good deal, YOU SUCK !


----------



## Philbert (Apr 3, 2016)

I also see clearance items on eBay sometimes. Other times, it is not that great of a deal compared to retail. But you might keep your eyes open for them on one of the European eBay sites. Put it on your 'watch' list and you may get notified when stuff gets posted.



wde_1978 said:


> The PowerSharp bars are nothing special, they are a regular narrow nose Oregon with an additional hole, I already converted my 3 regular bars to PowerSharp bars.



The reason that they sell the special bars with the Powersharp starter kit is to make sure that the holes are properly aligned. The whole system is dependent on the exact geometry of the bar nose/radius; the Powersharp cutters; the diamond dressing link; and the grinding stone when they come together. Some people have trouble drilling accurate holes in guide bars, even with a drill press. If the hole is not centered, you could have problems each time you flip your bar. But it you can do it accurately. . . . .

Philbert


----------



## wde_1978 (Apr 4, 2016)

Philbert said:


> I also see clearance items on eBay sometimes. Other times, it is not that great of a deal compared to retail. But you might keep your eyes open for them on one of the European eBay sites. Put it on your 'watch' list and you may get notified when stuff gets posted.


I'm kinda new to eBay, will have to look into making a watch list - thanks for the tip.



Philbert said:


> The reason that they sell the special bars with the Powersharp starter kit is to make sure that the holes are properly aligned. The whole system is dependent on the geometry of the bar nose/radius; the Powersharp cutters; the diamond dressing link; and the grinding stone when they come together. Some people have drilling accurate holes in guide bars, even with a drill press. If the hole is not centered, you could have problems each time you flip your bar. But it you can do it accurately. . . . .
> 
> Philbert


I got them aligned quite nicely, I bolted the PS bar to a non-PS bar using the existing holes and then drilled the additional hole into the non-PS bar by using the PS bar for centering the drill.

As said, I have yet to give the PS-kit a try and I drilled the non-PS bars just to make them universal beforehand.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 7, 2016)

*Storm Cleanup Bump*

Had some 60 - 80 mph winds blow through here the other day; helping some neighbors clean up trees, large limbs, etc. I like using the battery and electric saws in the city: quieter - more of a stealth cleanup than a noise fest, bouncing off neighbors' houses; easy to stop/start between clearing tasks; etc. Most of my battery and corded electric saws have PowerSharp chain: gotta love those piles of chips!



(Silver maple, PowerSharp chain, 40V saw, crosscutting - _not_ noodling!)

Philbert


----------



## HarleyT (Jul 7, 2016)

Yeah. Powersharp Eng sent me a couple to test out, and I thought they were great! Unfortunately they both were Poulan mounts, so I don't get to use them much....


----------



## Philbert (Jul 7, 2016)

HarleyT said:


> Yeah. Powersharp Eng sent me a couple to test out, and I thought they were great! Unfortunately they both were Poulan mounts, so I don't get to use them much....


Those will fit a number of models, including a number of Craftsman saws, etc. You could list them in the Trading Post, or offer them in one of the Xmas giving threads if you are not really using them.

Philbert


----------



## HarleyT (Jul 7, 2016)

Philbert said:


> Those will fit a number of models, including a number of Craftsman saws, etc. You could list them in the Trading Post, or offer them in one of the Xmas giving threads if you are not really using them.
> 
> Philbert


Yeah, they will work on little Echos, Shindaiwas and many more. I use them when I test out saws that I happen to be working on.


----------



## Wagnerwerks (Jul 7, 2016)

If you need anyone to test one out on a little shinney, just let me know


----------



## HarleyT (Aug 12, 2016)

Just to keep things going, here is a pic of the old Powersharp, from another thread here...


----------



## Philbert (Aug 12, 2016)

HarleyT said:


> . . . here is a pic of the old Powersharp . . .





(illustration from woodmagazine.com "Block Plane Basics")

The close-up photos emphasize how the bevel on PowerSharp chain is on the top of the cutter, instead of the bottom, as on conventional chain. This really confuses some guys.

I try to compare that with different types of wood working planes, that have the bevel facing up or down on their blades ('plane irons'), but still cut due to the resultant cutting angle. Just like with planes, where the bevel orientation has to match the plane that it is used on, the bevel on saw chain has to match the sharpening system that is used - no switching!

Philbert


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (Sep 6, 2016)

Went through some boxes of antique chains and found a unique chain for this thread.

Here is a version of a top sharpening chain on a very large scale. Pictured with the large top sharpened chain is today's Powersharp (the smallest chain pictured) and 11BC chain which is used on timber harvesting machines.

The average hole center to hole center distance of the antique chain .90" (the 11 BC chain is .75").

There was no brand on the large top sharpened chain.







Today's Powersharp cutter pictured just above the antique chain. Gives you a sense of the size of this old chain.


----------



## HarleyT (Sep 6, 2016)

On the middle chain. Why did the put the drive links in different directions?


----------



## HarleyT (Sep 6, 2016)

Or was that one a warranty return?


----------



## Philbert (Sep 6, 2016)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> . . . found a unique chain for this thread.



That is one scary looking chain!



HarleyT said:


> Why did the put the drive links in different directions?



Good observation. Looks like the tie straps have really been run rough on that chain too.

Philbert


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (Sep 6, 2016)

No, it's not a warranty chain.

I took a close look at the way the drive links were stamped out. The drive links were reversed on purpose.

The stamping process creates a problem, it leaves the edge profile larger on one side than on the other side of the drive link. The picture shows how the edge of the drive link is angled. The short red lines are drawn to show the angle of the drive link edges.






The stamping die that made these parts made only one drive link at a time. So the larger edge profile is always on the same side of every drive link.


Running a chain with the larger profile all on the same side of the chain would cause wear on the nose sprocket and drive sprocket to the same angle. The nose sprocket would be pushed to one side of the bar and burn up. An angle worn in on the drive sprocket would cause the chain to walk sideways on the drive sprocket and cause chain throwing and damage the bar groove tail entry point.

So that is why the drive links are alternated.


----------



## HarleyT (Sep 6, 2016)

So they are no longer "stamped out"? Were all chains of that era the same way?

Why don't you put up some pics of the chain making process today?

It would be one of the most looked at threads here.


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (Sep 6, 2016)

Today's chains are stamped out. But an even number of drive links are made with every stroke of the stamping die. Half of the drive links have the larger edge profile on the right side of drive link and half have the larger edge profile on the left side of the drive link. This keeps the wear on the nose sprockets and drive sprockets symmetrical so the nose sprockets are not pushed to one side and the chain does not walk sideways on the drive sprocket.

Look closely at the teeth of a well used nose sprocket. The part of the nose sprocket teeth, in contact with the drive links, have a slight V shape.


----------



## stubnail67 (Oct 4, 2016)

so any one use this on a small top handle 14 inch?like echo? 52 drive link ... how does it fair on palm trees and small limbs? i use vxl right now....


----------



## wde_1978 (Oct 6, 2016)

My PowerSharp setup is 52DL, but I haven't used it yet!
Intended saws are 40cc/1.7kW/2.1HP Sachs-Dolmar 105 & 108.

I am having trouble getting my payed for firewood logs this year.
There was some sort of embezzlement affair with the forestry company.
I don't know the details, but it is 4 months since I played for my firewood logs and they still haven't been delivered.
Uppon requests to get our firewood delivered we get a sugarcoated excuse - this doesn't bode well. 

I want to try my PS setup at home for ease of documentation.


----------



## torch (Mar 19, 2017)

I read this entire thread, worked up an interest, sought out the PowerSharp website and found the product selector. I have an 025 homeowner's saw, an MS 261 Commercial, an MS290 Farm Boss and an MS360 Pro.

Not one them are listed.


----------



## dboyd351 (Mar 19, 2017)

Torch,
As far as I know, the Powersharp system is currently limited to small saws, usually about 40cc or under. I'd think you could probably put one on your Stihl 025 if the bar mount matches any of the Powersharp bars, but that might be about the upper limit of currently available Powersharp options. You would also probably need to make sure your 025 is using a 3/8 lp (picco) sprocket, as I don't think they are made for .325 chain. I've used them and they work pretty well, but I will advise you that if you push on the bar hard enough to flex it or push it against a curved surface when sharpening it, your saw will cut to one side (I inadvertently learned this when I pushed it against a crowned road when sharpening). Also, it seems to me you have to be extra careful of the chain, as it seems to more easily cut things with accidental contact than a regular chain. 
It is VERY easy to sharpen the chain and it cuts very well. Just some different stuff to get used to.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 19, 2017)

Current PowerSharp chain is only available in 3/8 low profile ('Picco') pitch. 

Several years back Oregon said that they were going to release a .325 pitch version, but . . . 

Philbert


----------



## wde_1978 (Mar 19, 2017)

I once asked about a full sized 3/8" PowerSharp setup, Blount replied it is in the works but development is several years out!

I just wonder, what is there to develop - just increase the chain chassis strength to 3/8" specs so that it can withstand the power of larger cc power heads.

I'd love to try PowerSharp on my 64/79cc saws because honestly the chain is too aggressive and bogs down my poor old 40cc.

As @Philbert said, last time I checked the PowerSharp system was available only in 3/8" LowProfile/Picco and only small(er) cc saws are listed in their chain selector.


----------



## dboyd351 (Mar 19, 2017)

wde_1978 said:


> I'd love to try PowerSharp on my 64/79cc saws because honestly the chain is too aggressive and bogs down my poor old 40cc.



I wonder if you could run the 3/8 lo pro on a Dolmar/Makita 521? Might be about right.


----------



## wde_1978 (Mar 22, 2017)

dboyd351 said:


> I wonder if you could run the 3/8 lo pro on a Dolmar/Makita 521? Might be about right.


Gotta set the saw up with a 3/8" LowProfile/Picco sprocket and bar ( or use a bar without a nose sprocket).

I have a rim sprocket that should fit a 3/8" LowProfile chain perfectly, but I don't have a suitable bar to match my 64/79cc saw and the PowerSharp chain I have.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 30, 2018)

Ran across a 1962 patent filing for an early version of this. Assigned to Textron, Inc., which I believe owned Homelite saws at the time (?)

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/2a/e9/bb/a721e46c3d8e18/US3260287.pdf




Philbert


----------



## dboyd351 (Jul 30, 2018)

I like the handle on the saw in that patent. Guess you'll feel right at home if switching over from a handsaw. 
https://screenshots.firefox.com/5fee2iAieh3J9D5f/patentimages.storage.googleapis.com


----------



## wde_1978 (Mar 30, 2019)

Dolmar PS-550, 55.6cc, 3.0kW/4.1HP, running 14" 52DL 3/8" LowProfile Oregon PowerSharp


----------



## Philbert (May 7, 2019)

*Beware PowerSharp Clones!!!!*




Seen recently on eBay. Oregon confirms that it is a clone / copy / counterfeit.

It is OK to not like the PowerSharp system, but do not base your opinion on these knock-offs.

_Caveat Emptor!_

Philbert


----------



## Brent Nowell (May 7, 2019)

Wow that dolmar is hauling ass with the power sharp system. Teeth on that chain are a very strange animal... I have to say I’m impressed with what I’m seeing. You have my interest.


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (May 13, 2019)

Thank you Philbert for bring this topic up!

Ebay, Amazon, and several other web sales companies are now carrying an OREGON® PowerSharp® sharpener knock-off.


The ads are most deceiving because they often show many pictures of the OREGON ® PowerSharp® sharpener, bar, and chain and only one picture of their knock-off sharpener. I’ve included some pictures taken from an Ebay ad. I put a red X through the knock-off sharpener.


The ads are compelling enough that the buyers are assuming it is an OREGON® product. Our customer service people are getting complaints of the stones coming off and hitting the users.


I ordered some “kits” for a better look at what comes in the package. The pictures of the knock-off sharpeners show many bad design features that will instantly dull the chain so the buyers will be very disappointed, if not also injured by the stones coming off. What is most troubling will be the black mark OREGON® will get because of a Chinese knock-off.


----------



## HarleyT (May 13, 2019)

Good to see you back ENG!!!


----------



## AuerX (May 13, 2019)

No surprise there are knockoffs available as the originals are very hard to find and a bit spendy.

I'd love some for my Husqvarna 340, have a big dirty job on my property.
But unfortunately not available for that saw. Or the 455 Rancher.


----------



## HarleyT (May 13, 2019)

Yeah, what is the possibilty of this product coming out in the bigger sizes?


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (May 13, 2019)

HarleyT said:


> Yeah, what is the possibilty of this product coming out in the bigger sizes?



I don't see bigger sizes in the present list of new product introductions. I've got six chains saws and can only use PowerSharp on two of them. So I usually use those two the most, even when I have to double cut to get through the logs. I don't like losing 1/2+ of my life filing chain. I'd like it in a bigger size also!


----------



## HarleyT (May 13, 2019)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> I don't see bigger sizes in the present list of new product introductions. I've got six chains saws and can only use PowerSharp on two of them. So I usually use those two the most, even when I have to double cut to get through the logs. I don't like losing 1/2+ of my life filing chain. I'd like it in a bigger size also!


It's been a while, are there problems in doing them in the bigger sizes?


----------



## AuerX (May 13, 2019)

HarleyT said:


> It's been a while, are there problems in doing them in the bigger sizes?



The problem is probably more related to poor sales of the current lineup.

Not much incentive to expand a slow moving product line.


----------



## Philbert (May 13, 2019)

Finnman said:


> Not much incentive to expand a slow moving product line.


'_Slow moving_?'

Some of my PowerSharp chains move 70-80 feet per second!!!


(I'd love to see a .325 version too, but not my call.)

Philbert


----------



## PowerSharp Eng (May 31, 2019)

The "kit" I ordered came in. No Chain, No Bar, only a very poorly made sharpener from Shenzhen China.

Really fun reading the sellers Facebook page comments. Lots of people are upset because the sharpener dulls the top plate, "sharpens" the wrong side, the stone comes flying out,................... They believed all the false comments about it working great. I left a comment saying their scam was a classic bait and switch scam. Bait the customers in with real OREGON PowerSharp videos and pictures and switch/send them to a very poor sharpener. My comment only lasted a day and then was removed.


If you want to put a comment on the facebook page follow this link and click on the Facebook icon to go to their page.








Let people know that there are fake sharpeners out there.


----------



## AuerX (Sep 14, 2019)

I've been a fan for a while, works great on my Stihl 020AV.
But unfortunately the latest chain I put on lost a tooth cutting pine on it's first outing. I didnt notice until cleaning up later. Inspected all other teeth and no damage whatsoever.

@PowerSharp Eng


----------



## Philbert (Aug 17, 2021)

*PowerSharp End Of Life Condition*

I like the PowerSharp chain system. It works best in softer wood, cutting surprisingly aggressive. The current version was only offered in 3/8 low profile pitch, which fits a limited range of saws. It is very convenient. But, like any chain, each loop reaches an 'end-of-life' condition, where it no longer cuts. I took a closer look at one loop, when it reached that point, to see why.




Looking at the used loop, in front of a new one, it is easy to see the wear on the cutter, but it looks like it still has useful cutting life left. For reference, the gold link at the left in this photo is the diamond dressing link that conditions the sharpening stone.




The wear in the sharpening stone is also clear. Each chain loop is supposed to be matched to a unique sharpening stone to maintain uniform wear patterns. So the stone pictured was used exclusively for the chain shown: they are replaced as a set.




On closer inspection, it becomes clear how much lower the cutters are on the worn chain, compared to the new one (I tried to emphasize this with the lines): a lot of metal has been removed (I did not track the specific amount of use, or compare this chain's life to the life of a conventional chain).

Could I manually file / grind down each set of depth gauges, along with the top of each cutter? Could I somehow shim the sharpening stone down a few thousandths to grind a bit more? Perhaps. But I would likely also have to remove the diamond dresser links. And that is getting to be a lot of work for a system based on convenience!

Philbert


----------



## AuerX (Aug 17, 2021)

I found they cut well, but broke a bunch of cutters in cleaning up fallen trees (dirty).
Shame really as I thought that was the perfect use case for this system.


----------



## Huskybill (Aug 18, 2021)

I tried a craftsman 3.75/18” bar with the power sharp decades ago. Wasn’t impressed.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 18, 2021)

Huskybill said:


> I tried a craftsman 3.75/18” bar with the power sharp decades ago. Wasn’t impressed.


There were 2 iterations of PowerSharp. 'Old' PS ('70s? '80s ?), a.k.a. 'Barracuda chain', covered saw pitches up to .404!


'New' PS debuted around 2010 (start of this thread). Only released for 3/8 Low profile chains.



Philbert


----------



## Huskybill (Aug 18, 2021)

Yes barracuda chain


----------



## Philbert (Aug 18, 2021)

Philbert


----------



## Huskybill (Aug 18, 2021)

Thanks now I feel old,,,.,..,lol she isn’t young anymore nor am I.

Barracuda chain. What’s the gold tooth do on the new chain?


----------



## Philbert (Aug 18, 2021)

Huskybill said:


> What’s the gold tooth do on the new chain?


If you go back through this thread from the start, you will see that they completely redesigned the chain, even though the same concept of sharpening the cutters using the power of the saw (‘PowerSharp’) is the same.

The old and new systems are not compatible or interchangeable.

The geometry of the cutter has been changed. Oregon Also added a diamond embedded, gold, link, to dress the sharpening stone on each house, for more uniform wear and grinding.

Philbert


----------



## Huskybill (Aug 18, 2021)

Is the newer version any good or are they reinventing the wheel? The barracuda didn’t impress me but I was new at cutting.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 18, 2021)

Again, I liked the New version, especially in softer wood. Very convenient. 

I know how to sharpen, but have it on several saws.

EDIT: I also had the Old version on a Craftsman / Poulan corded electric saw that I bought 30+ years ago, but also did not know much about chains at that point. It also worked, until it stopped working. That's when I met my local STIHL dealer, who grumbled something about it under his breath, then sold me a '_real chain'_ (his words)!

Philbert


----------



## Huskybill (Aug 18, 2021)

After all my years of cutting and using full chisel chain my dealer gave me skip semi chisel on my 385/575 with the longer bars. It didn’t appear to be that much slower


----------

