# Starting a stump grinding business. New vs used? If new 25hp or 35hp?



## dontbthatguy (Jul 20, 2013)

Quick background, I am a career firefighter in CT and work part time as a ground guy for a tree co. The tree co is owned by a guy I work with. He subs out his grinding jobs so I figured it is time to start a business of my own and grind away (he told me he would give me the jobs.) 

I figure I can spend time each week lining up jobs, and grind one or two days on my off days from the fire department. 

I have been going to the local dealers (vermeer and rayco/bandit) looking at equipment. I have around $10,000 to invest into the business. 

There isn't much that I can find as far as a used machine goes. They all seem to be out of state and I don't want to take a gamble on a used machine with out seeing it in person. If I go used, I would like to go with a larger at least 35hp machine. Do you guys recommend going used? Or should I go new? And am I missing something, or are there more used machines out there? Any help finding them would be great!

New is pricy obviously. If I go new, I really shouldn't go more than a 25hp machine due to leveraging too much of the business. Will a 25 hp machine be enough to start a decent grinding business? Any tips with buying a new machine? 

Any general insight on the subject would be much appreciated. Thanks guys!

-Anthony


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## kyle goddard (Jul 20, 2013)

I use to rent small grinders. Best one was a 35 hp bandit with green teeth. I also owned. A dosko. Great machine. Untill the engine when, which was my falt. Keep an eye on that oil. 
If you can find a 60+ hp machine you will be better of, and save a hole lot of time and effort. Try looking at some rental places, they sell old equipment to get new.


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## OLD MAN GRINDER (Jul 20, 2013)

Chk out ebay, lots of used grinders on there......i had a vermeer sc252 with a 27 hp kohler and it was adequate until u get into large stumps 30 in or better, takes a while, i assume since u work part time for a tree co u have access to a large chain saw with a long bar, most important tool u will have in your arsenal esp when grinding with a low hp machine, bandit and rayco have used machines on their websites also, i now have a 2550 bandit with 38hp, big difference in cutting ability over lower hp machines, i would go with the most hp u can afford, self propelled over tow behind also, just my opinion, most of the jobs i do could not be done with a tow behind, i wish i could afford both LOL...

Hope this helps..

Bob......


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## Single_Shooter (Jul 20, 2013)

I am in the same boat you are. I was working with a small tree outfit and they had issues with their stump grinder because she would show up with her boyfriend in her truck and they would cruise the neighborhood getting jobs by saying "THEY" were down the street doing work for....(our customer) and the last time they did 3 tree jobs on the same street and a week later the 2 stumps we originally called her for were still not touched. We had someone else do them for us and I bought my grinder the following week.

Now we do more stumps that trees on some weeks. I even have 3 other small tree companies calling me to do their stumps now. Tomorrow is Sunday and I already have 16 stumps scheduled for the day.

I found a used 2006 Vermeer 252 at a local rental shop for $5,800. They didn't do great maintenance so I had every bearing replaced as well as rebuilt the hydraulics and replaced all the pins for the arms and more than I care to remember. $2,300 later it runs great and cuts like a dream.

As far as size....I did an oak stump recently that was just over 6 foot. I had it ground 8 inches deep in an hour and 10 minutes with a new set of green teeth. My 252 with the 27HP Kohler is plenty of grinder for what I encounter on a daily basis. Most of my stumps (90%) are under 40 inches so all I can say is to go by what you know your average stump will be and buy appropriately. You don't need a howitzer to hunt squirrels...just saying.

As said before me - get a good size saw with a long bar. The 660 was an obvious choice for me. (Especially since it was only a month old, looked new and the guy took $750 for it) I got a 25, 30 and 36 inch bars for it now. Nothing else needed.

Good Luck!!! It has paid off well for me so I would recommend this route to anyone wanting a good cash flow small business that they can do on the side.


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## treeman82 (Jul 21, 2013)

I'd suggest going with the biggest, diesel, self propelled machine you can afford. The one thing I would HIGHLY recommend to you, given that I know your general area... get something with an engine mounted on the chassis, NOT on the boom, even if it means having to get a smaller HP machine!


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## fatheadon1 (Jul 29, 2013)

i am in the same boat as you with grinding as a sub. iv used 27 hp gas machines all the way 2 90 hp diesel units. In my experience the best grinders are belt driven with the motor mounted on the head the added weight keeps the machine from bouncing around when grinding. With that said i picked up a bandit 2450 with a 44 hp Kubota and i love everything about it. Plenty of power decent on fuel will run for ever and i paid 30000 brand new with wireless contorls and dozer blade. this machine i feel gives the most bang for the buck as iv put 25 hr on it and have ground well over 100 stumps the machine is small enough to get in normal gates but big enough to take on any stump efficiently. here of some pics of a job i did 11 willow stumps ave was 36-42 inches i ground all the stumps "some were up rooted'' chased the roots and did the clean up with my bobcat in 4 hours 

 

 

 you can see the dozser blade comes in handy to fill the bucket and yes im running the grinder from the cab of the bobcat. for me this has given me the best results. i guess if you are mechanically inclined a 10000 grinder could work but parts are not cheap and time turning the wrench is would be time you are working for free. just food for thought.


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## dontbthatguy (Jul 29, 2013)

I just wanted to thank everyone for the replies. Some awesome advice. As of right now, I am looking to start small and hopefully find a used smaller machine. As the business grows and if demand increases hopefully I will be able to roll some profits into buying a larger diesel in a year or two.


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## s4fitz (Aug 1, 2013)

Look at united rentals, they always are selling stuff. Even if you buy a beat up unit and put some money into it that might be a good start!


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## CalTreeEquip (Aug 2, 2013)

Since you just have $10k to start with get an SC252 and run it for a while. Find one with low hours, check the bearings (I use a laser thermometer to gauge the heat on the bearings while its running), then put Green Teeth on it. Your looking at $6000 to $8000.
When you can afford to spend some more find an old Vermeer 665 or a 630. Those are usually pretty cheap and if you can find a good one will do a great job for you on the bigger stumps. Upgrade when you can to a more modern machines.
I have a few large machines with low hours on them if you want to spend some money right now.
Used Stump Grinders in California

You can also check out these videos:
1992 Vermeer 665B Stump Grinder demo - YouTube
2000Vermeer SC752 stump grinding demo - YouTube

Lot of good advise in the previous post as well.


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## Single_Shooter (Aug 9, 2013)

I have a 2006 SC252 and like I said I have around $8500 into it with everything counted in. 
But it has paid for itself in under 4 months!!! Plus paying for my operating expenses and making me some cash to put in the bank as well as buy me 3 new saws. BUT...I was fortunate to fall in with a guy who already had many local contacts and got me in with them and helped get them to start using my services in the first 2 weeks I owned the grinder. We are now grinding stumps more days than we are cutting trees.

I now have 4 small tree companies calling me EVERY week to do their stumps. (18 stumps last week and 15 this week @ $75-$125 per stump average) I also have several lawn companies who call me nearly every week to get rid of stumps. (lawn guys hate stumps!!!) All I can say is start with what you can EASILY afford and GROW YOUR BUSINESS CONTACTS. We bid a job today that started with a $30 stump across the street from a tree job we did...we ended up doing the tree she had a week after the stump...now her sister called and hired us to drop 2 trees and trim out 3 more. You can never beat happy customers!!!! Even the lawn guy's stumps lead to more stumps and tree work....so every job is a potential residual income gold mine.

I am now looking to buy an SC372 in the next month or two if I can find one used. So far all I have found locally is an SC352 with the 34hp Daihatsu diesel, a blade and greenteeth with 400 hours on it for $10,500. Not certain which way I am going to go yet. If I can get this one for around $8,500 cash I will likely go with it. The deals are out there...you just have to keep looking and keep on top of it. 

BUT....please take into account that I am fortunate in the fact that I have no debt to speak of. I pay cash for my equipment so I don't have the worry about making a payment if it gets real slow. Most guys I have met in this business so far at one time or another have had to sell equipment to make it through the winter and pay their bills. Just be cautious and don't get in too deep too fast is all I can say to anyone.


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## Single_Shooter (Sep 20, 2013)

Well....I bought a 2008 SC352 diesel with 462 hours and the green teeth set-up for $11,500 out the door cash price. It looks and runs great. Cuts through a stump in less than half the time of my 252.

I couldn't resist the bug....I also got a 1998 Freightliner FL-50 Business Class Chipper truck with a 2006 BC1000XL 12 inch chipper with 1480 hours for $17,000 cash. It was a very expensive week!!!!

I am now looking at the Ad Pages to run up the biz in advertising. That will run about $900 a month...not certain that I can afford that yet with winter just around the corner - but going to see what I can do with it. Keep trying til I find what works best in this town and keep repeating it...simple process of elimination.

Hope y'all are having a good year!!!!


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## tidy (Sep 26, 2013)

I was in a nearly identical position to the op a few years ago, I ended up buying a bandit hb20 brand new, Im now looking to buy a sp4012 44hp (yet I wont be able to afford one for around 12 months), its tempting to sell the hb20 to speed up the process but I think its wiser to hang on to it.


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