# How to choke a tree



## turnkey4099 (Aug 25, 2009)

Sorry for the poor pictures - ran out of battery and couldn't tell what they were like.







Found this while falling an old locust. The 'clamp' is madeof two bars of 3/8" x 1 1/2" iron held together by two 3/8" bolts. The stem almost survived as the 'collar' growing over the iron and bolts almost buried them.






The clamp is the dark bar just above the cut off branch. I can't figure out what they were attempting to do. Possibly cure a split before the other stems sprouted?

Harry K


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## TreEmergencyB (Aug 26, 2009)

wow almost 2 whole days and no one said anything about the ladder wheres mr. safety at on this one????


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## BarkBuster20 (Aug 26, 2009)

wow, that ladder in the tree, is just so unsafe. :computer2:


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## TreEmergencyB (Aug 26, 2009)

and note all the chainsaw size ladder height cuts?????:jawdrop:

and no rope into the tree


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## BarkBuster20 (Aug 26, 2009)

surprised no one died


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## treemandan (Aug 26, 2009)

I agree. How anyone could come out of that alive beats me. The cuts look bad as well.
I hope the guy is OK, haven't heard anything from him in a few days.


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## TreEmergencyB (Aug 26, 2009)

right? i hope he didnt go for them dead ones a lil higher up still using that ladder maybe he got out his gas powerd pole saw and maybe get a lil more reach out that ladder.............


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## treemandan (Aug 26, 2009)

Nah, he is still among the living. He has that locust split up and stacked.


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## TreEmergencyB (Aug 26, 2009)

probally but i though mr. osha saftey guy from the other thread im not gonna say names but you know who woulda been all over this


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## treemandan (Aug 26, 2009)

TreEmergencyB said:


> probally but i though mr. osha saftey guy from the other thread im not gonna say names but you know who woulda been all over this



yeah ME ! I dunno but I am not to sure about turnkey ( the firwood wrangler) posting pics like that in arborist 101 and I say now it look likes dumb ass 101.
Sure a guy can do what he wants, its his business but he just made it mine didn't he.
Just to clarify: Iam not attacking turnkey, nor his family, nor his dog. I am just saying. Its like if he was about to put his penis in an electric pencil sharpener, I just feel I should say something ... like STOP!


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 27, 2009)

Wow! two days. I expected that barrage the first day. .

Actually, the ladder was only used to get up one step for that big cut off. Only needed to get a bit higher than I could reach.

Believe it or not, a ladder can be safer than working from the ground. In this case it was as on the ground I would have been standing pretty much under that. I was only a stub about 12" long.

Ladders are not "instant death". I suppose you would have objected to my use of the 24' ladder to get my cable attached about 14' up there to pull it in the right direction also.

What, no "call a professional" for a simple job?

Harry K


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## treeseer (Aug 27, 2009)

When you finish cutting, could you try to get the clamp off and cut a lengthwise piece, to show the tree's growth around the clamp?

No idea why that thing was put on the tree.

Also no idea wtf is wrong with ladders; i use one every day.


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## outofmytree (Aug 27, 2009)

turnkey4099 said:


> Wow! two days. I expected that barrage the first day. .
> 
> Actually, the ladder was only used to get up one step for that big cut off. Only needed to get a bit higher than I could reach.
> 
> ...




Hi turnkey. Get ready. You will need a flak jacket.

Ladders are officially rated as the worlds most dangerous hand tool and chainsaws are number 2. So if you really feel the need to hurt yourself why not combine both???

Don't call professionals for simple jobs. Just do em yourself and decrease CO2 pollution by the output of 1 human...........

Why not use a polesaw from both sides? 

If you are going to post in a public forum, don't be suprised when the public responds.

I take it you removed the "choked" leader?


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## outofmytree (Aug 27, 2009)

treeseer said:


> Also no idea wtf is wrong with ladders; i use one every day.



And I see by your sig that you don't use chainsaws either. Its the two together that makes for a quick trip to the ER.


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## treemandan (Aug 27, 2009)

Clinical studies that prolonged use of ladders in tree work leads to homosexuality. Now that is a fact you just can't argue with.

But seriously, what did you cut it with turnkey? Looks like you cut right through the notches.


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 27, 2009)

treeseer said:


> When you finish cutting, could you try to get the clamp off and cut a lengthwise piece, to show the tree's growth around the clamp?
> 
> No idea why that thing was put on the tree.
> 
> Also no idea wtf is wrong with ladders; i use one every day.



A ladder is a tool. As with all tools, misuse can hurt. I use them but not stupidly. The crowd in here gets their panties in a knot at the first sight of a ladder no matter what it is used for.

I can just see any one of them pulling up to that job, suiting up, putting a rope in the tree, climbing up 12" and dropping that stub. Uhuh!. I'll also bet that near every one of them has a ladder on the truck to be used in just such situations.

I'll give a shot at trying to remove the clamp. Serious doubt about being able todo it. I cut a 6' chunk out of the leader and tossed the thing in the bush.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 27, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Hi turnkey. Get ready. You will need a flak jacket.
> 
> Ladders are officially rated as the worlds most dangerous hand tool and chainsaws are number 2. So if you really feel the need to hurt yourself why not combine both???
> 
> ...



A polesaw? For something that size? I'll call you for the next one.

Yes the I took the leader off _after_ the tree was on the ground. Making a wild assumption as most of the posters did were you?

There is a big difference between constructive criticism and outright a&&holishness. Most of the posts in here are the latter.

"Don't call professionals for simple jobs. Just do em yourself and decrease CO2 pollution by the output of 1 human..........." 

Being a professional is no gaurantee either. Just refer to the accidents and fatalities forum. BTW, just how many "ladder" problems have you seen in there?

The usual cry. A professional is someone who probably has a lot less experience than I do. Been at it over 30 years. How about you?

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 27, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Clinical studies that prolonged use of ladders in tree work leads to homosexuality. Now that is a fact you just can't argue with.
> 
> But seriously, what did you cut it with turnkey? Looks like you cut right through the notches.



???. I did a shallow "v" notch on the underside and a fellign cut from the top - yes from a step or two up the (shudder, faint) ladder. Yes, the two cuts pretty well matched up. As I said, it was a short stub taken off to get it out of the way of the (panic) 24" ladder. Finesse not needed.

Harry K


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## treemandan (Aug 27, 2009)

turnkey4099 said:


> ???. I did a shallow "v" notch on the underside and a fellign cut from the top - yes from a step or two up the (shudder, faint) ladder. Yes, the two cuts pretty well matched up. As I said, it was a short stub taken off to get it out of the way of the (panic) 24" ladder. Finesse not needed.
> 
> Harry K



Yeah we are just busting on you and you have to admit to the trained eye ( mine) it looks hairy.
You must be pretty tall.


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## outofmytree (Aug 27, 2009)

turnkey4099 said:


> A polesaw? For something that size? I'll call you for the next one.
> 
> Yes the I took the leader off _after_ the tree was on the ground. Making a wild assumption as most of the posters did were you?
> 
> ...



The average ladder is 300mm wide. The limb in the picture is 1 1/2 times wider than the ladder. My stihl ht75 has 250mm of usable bar length. So as I said, cut it from either side and pop, off it comes.

I can cut that branch off with a polesaw just as fast as you can set up your ladder. 

I have no objection to the proper use of a ladder its doing stupid things like running a rear handle saw from one that arcs me up. 

One more observation. Given the distance from the ladder to the cut, either you one hand your saw or you lean out from the ladder.


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## treemandan (Aug 27, 2009)

Nothing personal Turnkey, I would say the same BS to anyone who posted pics like that.


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## treeseer (Aug 27, 2009)

Clinical studies * that prolonged use of ladders in tree work leads to homosexuality. Now that is a fact you just can't argue with."

You left out a verb, so it is not an accurate statement. :jester:
And my wife is not a man; not close!

O and I'd've topped that bush out with the hayauche in about 3 minutes. :jawdrop:

O and outof, just because chainsaws are overrated does not mean I don't use them; they are there as a last resort. Using from ladders? very rarely and very cautiously and of course always tied in twice, right turnkey? :greenchainsaw:


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## Ed Roland (Aug 27, 2009)

So what about the clamp? Why would anyone take the time and considerable effort to install it?


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## treemandan (Aug 27, 2009)

woodweasel said:


> So what about the clamp? Why would anyone take the time and considerable effort to install it?



For a swing, guy line, zip line, flag or whatever.


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## treemandan (Aug 27, 2009)

treeseer said:


> Clinical studies * that prolonged use of ladders in tree work leads to homosexuality. Now that is a fact you just can't argue with."
> 
> You left out a verb, so it is not an accurate statement. :jester:
> And my wife is not a man; not close!
> ...



Sorry bout that typo but that is right out of the manual. 


Does anyone here really think you could cut that with a pole saw?


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## Ed Roland (Aug 27, 2009)

Ladders can be very useful. Although, this is typical for my area. Not only does he rape this Sabal he does it unsafely. 

DISCLAIMER: This photo SHALL not be sent to OSHA as a weapon to decrease my competition. 







inside joke


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 28, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Yeah we are just busting on you and you have to admit to the trained eye ( mine) it looks hairy.
> You must be pretty tall.



Used to stand 6'. Dunno now as I am shrinking with age. Don't really understand how I am gettingshorter but the ground gets further away every time I bend over to pick up a piece of brush.

I was up a rung or two on that ladder. Was able to do the 'v' notch standing on the ground.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 28, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> The average ladder is 300mm wide. The limb in the picture is 1 1/2 times wider than the ladder. My stihl ht75 has 250mm of usable bar length. So as I said, cut it from either side and pop, off it comes.
> 
> I can cut that branch off with a polesaw just as fast as you can set up your ladder.
> 
> ...



Oh, that kind of pole saw. I was thinking the manual type. Done too many branches with one of those and have a bunch of real thin ones coming up to clean up my black walnut trunks again.

The ladder was in a different position, no leaning needed and no, I do not one'hand saws ever since I almost cut my thumb off 25 years ago.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 28, 2009)

treeseer said:


> Clinical studies * that prolonged use of ladders in tree work leads to homosexuality. Now that is a fact you just can't argue with."
> 
> You left out a verb, so it is not an accurate statement. :jester:
> And my wife is not a man; not close!
> ...



Well...I tie in the top of the ladder if I expect any 'bounce' the very few times I use it that way. Should tie myself in also.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 28, 2009)

woodweasel said:


> Ladders can be very useful. Although, this is typical for my area. Not only does he rape this Sabal he does it unsafely.
> 
> DISCLAIMER: This photo SHALL not be sent to OSHA as a weapon to decrease my competition.
> 
> ...



Now that looks like me back when I was young and very stupid. Still stupid at times but not "very" stupid.

Harry K


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## outofmytree (Aug 28, 2009)

Now that photo is how it should be done. If you are going to cut from a ladder make sure the pesky shirt doesnt get in the way of the ER medics stitching you back together.

Turnkey sometimes I am my own worst enemy. There are far better ways to get a point across than ramming it down someones throat. My apologies for being less than civil.

As to ladders..........

I have 2. I use them regularly. I am going to shut up now.


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## TreEmergencyB (Aug 28, 2009)

i use ladders all the time sometimes quicker then throwin a rope or even if you set your line high wit the throw bag beats pulling ur self up 15 20 feet or so as i climb off the ladder ill saftey in and have the groundies move it then continue to do what i have to get to do

got an old 40' fireman ladder heavy but sturdy too


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## treemandan (Aug 28, 2009)

turnkey4099 said:


> Wow! two days. I expected that barrage the first day. .
> 
> Actually, the ladder was only used to get up one step for that big cut off. Only needed to get a bit higher than I could reach.
> 
> ...




Ok check this out ( a little from the mind of madness if I may?) 

Me, as a climber, whose prime objective is to come out alive, am always re-enacting senerios in my mind. Always, really. A guy like me wants good clarity on many things, its going to come in handy. Sure I poke a little fun.
So anyway, what did you cut it with? Looks like you almost got 18 inch dia on the one. And the cuts look bad. 
One rule of arial cutting is that you don't cut things like that while being under it. It doesn't hold true in every situation but in this case it looks quite like something you shouldn't do.
I looked at the pics and it seems you would have to be pretty tall if you cut from the first or second rung. I can only think a big saw could possible get through the limb fast enough so the butt drops without the weight of the tips ripping it slowly down and directing force towards you as you cut. maybe the limbs where not that long?
I seriously don't know how ya did it.


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## treemandan (Aug 28, 2009)

What I really think is that you went out on a limb and are really happy that what almost happened didn't.


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## m.green (Aug 29, 2009)

turnkey4099 said:


> Wow! two days. I expected that barrage the first day. .
> 
> Actually, the ladder was only used to get up one step for that big cut off. Only needed to get a bit higher than I could reach.
> 
> ...



My very first laddder experience was terrible. It was after an ice storm and my boss sent me up the ladder to cut a limb hanging over a den. I had a rope through a crotch at the top of the tree and a man at the bottom. (I was green (about 6 months green) and my boss told us what to do. so I climb the ladder, get up to the top, signal to the other ground man. And started to make my cut. Here are the mistakes.

1) It was a poplar frozen.
2) had glair ice
3) the groundman at that time didn't have his dose of pills that day and wasn't level headed at all. 
4) my boss put no thought in where the spread from the limb was going to go. 

I cut the limb and about half way through it snapped. the ground man held the limb like he was supposed to but the spread swung down and hit the ladder and sent me flying. Broke my pelvis and my wrist. Was getting paid under the table so workmans comp couldn't give me anything. I was out for weeks with no income


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 29, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Ok check this out ( a little from the mind of madness if I may?)
> 
> Me, as a climber, whose prime objective is to come out alive, am always re-enacting senerios in my mind. Always, really. A guy like me wants good clarity on many things, its going to come in handy. Sure I poke a little fun.
> So anyway, what did you cut it with? Looks like you almost got 18 inch dia on the one. And the cuts look bad.
> ...



It was jusdt a stub sticking out enough to interfere with my tall ladder I needed to get a cable attached.

Cut it with MS310 20". Easy reach from under to cut the shallow v-notch. May have been on 2nd rung, was not a 'level' cut but somewhat of an up angle. Not even close to being under it. Had debated cuttin it from the ground but that would have been under.

Yep, cuts would be bad for arborist work but this is for firewood. Finesse not needed to get rid of an obstruction.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 29, 2009)

m.green said:


> My very first laddder experience was terrible. It was after an ice storm and my boss sent me up the ladder to cut a limb hanging over a den. I had a rope through a crotch at the top of the tree and a man at the bottom. (I was green (about 6 months green) and my boss told us what to do. so I climb the ladder, get up to the top, signal to the other ground man. And started to make my cut. Here are the mistakes.
> 
> 1) It was a poplar frozen.
> 2) had glair ice
> ...



You would have to remind me of my disaster on a ladder. Don't do that anymore. Up a ladder about 6 ft cutting off a branch. Tip swung down, sprung the branch back, butt caught me in the chest and pushed me off the ladder. Other than getting the breath knocked out of me, no damage. Back when I was young and very stupid.

Harry K


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## outofmytree (Aug 29, 2009)

turnkey4099 said:


> It was jusdt a stub sticking out enough to interfere with my tall ladder I needed to get a cable attached.
> 
> *Cut it with MS310 20". *Easy reach from under to cut the shallow v-notch. May have been on 2nd rung, was not a 'level' cut but somewhat of an up angle. Not even close to being under it. Had debated cuttin it from the ground but that would have been under.
> 
> ...



This was my point regarding a polesaw. If it can be cut from the second rung of a ladder with a rear handle saw that has a 20" bar then it can be cut from the ground with a Stihl ht75 or similar product. 

Our rules are simple. When you are using a saw you either have both feet on the ground or you are in a harness.


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## treeseer (Aug 29, 2009)

turnkey4099 said:


> Other than getting the breath knocked out of me, no damage. Back when I was young and very stupid.


OK that was then, this was now--and you are still cutting from a ladder without being secured to the tree.

Last week, back when you were Old and very...

O and now that I've dissed you, any luck with the pic of the clamped wood?


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 30, 2009)

treeseer said:


> OK that was then, this was now--and you are still cutting from a ladder without being secured to the tree.
> 
> Last week, back when you were Old and very...
> 
> O and now that I've dissed you, any luck with the pic of the clamped wood?



So you think it is necessary to be tied to a tree 12" (approximately) off the ground? There is safety and then there is rediculousnous.

Ah!! Thanks for the reminder. I was out today and forgot to look for it. I'll dig it out of there tomorrow.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 30, 2009)

No luck today. I went looking after working on a locust for 4 1/2 hours. Dripping sweat and staggering. I couldn't find it although there is hardly any ground cover under those trees. I'll make another try tomorrow morning when I am fresh.

Harry K


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## Small Job Tim (Aug 30, 2009)

*ladders*

Ladders are a tool.....if you don't know how to use one, don't use it...
However, for people who dont like to waste time throwing lines in the air or humping your way up.....they make alot of sense.
Situational, of course, but why not??
save time...


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 31, 2009)

treeseer said:


> OK that was then, this was now--and you are still cutting from a ladder without being secured to the tree.
> 
> Last week, back when you were Old and very...
> 
> O and now that I've dissed you, any luck with the pic of the clamped wood?



Can't find it. Tried again this morning. Something that size should show up even in tall grass, I even looked where I was sure I _hadn't_ tossed it.

Harry K


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