# How to I chainsaw this fallen tree?



## Henk (Jul 21, 2015)

A tree came down on my farm and crushed the fence. I want to remove the tree and repair the fence. But the tree is heavy and dangerous. Where do I make the first cut? How do i go about this? I have no experience.







http://www.providentliving.org.nz/how-do-i-chainsaw-this-tree/
I have added numbers so you can use them as reference points.
I'd appreciate experienced help.


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## Matt J Leppek (Jul 22, 2015)

What is the diameter of the tree? If it's anything over 16 inches I would highly recommend calling a local tree service. Heavy, dangerous, and no experience can be bad news quick. With the tree on uneven ground, it's imperative to know the forces acting on it, otherwise you could wind up underneath it. 

If you do decide to call someone, I would ask them if they would mind showing you where the forces are acting on the tree in that situation and how they would go about removing it. If they don't want to explain it or tell you they are going to wing it or something along those lines, hire someone else. 

When they come to do the work, watch how they do it. It wouldn't hurt to take a video of them working either, great reference later on if you want a refresher. I've learned lots of great stuff by watching videos online (and a lot of not so great stuff). 

Good luck and stay safe!


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

Thanks Matt. I am still hoping someone can tell me the forces acting upon the tree in the sketch.


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## Matt J Leppek (Jul 22, 2015)

The forces are on 1 and 14. 

How steep is the hill?


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## Gypo Logger (Jul 22, 2015)

Start at the crown and work towards the stump limbing as you go, cuting it into stove lengths if you need the wood. Hard to give good advice when Im not there. Generaly, its pretty cut and dried, but its a dangerous game and lots can happen.


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## Trx250r180 (Jul 22, 2015)

How big is your tractor,all farmers have tractors dont they ? Drag it to flat ground and cut it up, maybe use a farmboss 290 stihl,great firewood saw


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## BC WetCoast (Jul 22, 2015)

What I would do is cut 14 first and get the overhanging crown out of the way. 

How solid is the connection at the stump? That would affect the decision. Depending on the width of the bench (flat area) and connection at the stump, I would either cut at 1 next and let the piece slide or undercut at 12. If the bench is short and the tree is steep, then cut 1, if the bench is wide then cut 12,

All the wood beyond 14 has tension on the top and compression on the bottom. Between 1 and 14, it's opposite, the tension is on the bottom and compression on the top. That's why you would undercut (cut up from bottom) if you were to cut at 12. 

If the log is lying at anyway cross hill (even a little) then make sure you stand on the uphill side of the log when you cut. If it were to roll, then it would roll away from you.


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

Matt J Leppek said:


> The forces are on 1 and 14.
> 
> How steep is the hill?


Not sure how to answer that. As a ratio?


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> How big is your tractor,all farmers have tractors dont they ? Drag it to flat ground and cut it up, maybe use a farmboss 290 stihl,great firewood saw


No tractor. Just a bicycle.


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> What I would do is cut 14 first and get the overhanging crown out of the way.
> 
> How solid is the connection at the stump? That would affect the decision. Depending on the width of the bench (flat area) and connection at the stump, I would either cut at 1 next and let the piece slide or undercut at 12. If the bench is short and the tree is steep, then cut 1, if the bench is wide then cut 12,
> 
> ...



Good connection at the stump. It probably will not slide.
The bench is wide enough to drive a digger through. Or a tractor. I have neither.
So if I am sure the tree will not slide, undercutting at 12 might be an OK option, as the pressure is from above, right?
I'll make sure it does not roll onto me if I do this. There is no sideways slope.


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

Matt J Leppek said:


> The forces are on 1 and 14.
> 
> How steep is the hill?


Too steep to stand on and use a chainsaw.


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

I'll need to climb up and check the roots again to see how secure the root is and be sure it will not break away.


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

Would a photo help? It's night in New Zealand and 13 hours till sunlight as it is winter. So I'll take a photo in the morning if needed.


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## Creeker (Jul 22, 2015)

If you haven't got a tractor or something to tow the tree then you don't need to make the flat area under the tree navigable by vehicles.

On the premise that repairing the fence is the priority, 1/Cut from the top at "14". don't touch the wires, cut if necessary, pull out of way and strain up
later (gripples work well for later tightening)
2/ Cut another 12 or 15" off, say round "12 or 13" on diagram - 1st part of this cut from the top, not > say 1/4 of the way through, then finish by cutting upwards from under the log, don't let it roll on you (as per previous post.)

If this seems overly hard then get someone who knows what they are doing, no point in getting hurt for a bit of fence work.

My antennae are up for this thread 

Matt said in his first sentence....."What is the diameter of the tree?"

You replied..................................."Thanks Matt. I am still hoping someone can tell me the forces acting upon the tree in the sketch."

Thereby not answering his question which was very obviously an important factor, and your reference to ratios..........come on mate, fair suck of the sav ?


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 22, 2015)

I believe you guys are being trolled....a farmer without a tractor??, dodging questions, it reeks of brush ape


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## Spellfeller (Jul 22, 2015)

I'll bite. 

First of all, you have some nice digital sketching skills! Second, if you're this "Brush Ape" trollish guy, that would be unfortunate. I'll assume you are the two-wheeled, tractor-less Kiwi farmer you say you are.

Almost all the danger of this situation is in the tree's position. That's why folks are telling you to move it if at all possible. 

To that end, IMHO, this kit (200' version)--or the NZ equivalent--is one of the best possible purchases the amateur tree worker can buy. Drag the tree down the hill, drag it ACROSS the bench, just try to get it so the whole log--and not just the two ends--is supported. If the tree weighs more than 1500# (the capacity of the rope puller), follow BCWetCoast's advice and cut at 14, letting the top drop down the hill.

I know you're probably in a hurry to get the fence repaired but probably NOT in a hurry to get to the ER. Educating yourself beyond the opinions on an Interwebz forum would be wise. (Not that folks here aren't well-meaning and experienced!) A good understanding of tension and compression is critical, if you can't get the log moved. This book is the best place to start. It covers both getting the tree safely on the ground and then cutting it up (bucking).

Good luck! Take it slow, and if it feels wrong, go back to the drawing board!


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 22, 2015)

,


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## Trx250r180 (Jul 22, 2015)

Have you tried the sloping back cut before ? Aka farmer cut ? You see a sloped cut at the stump will help it slide off and shoot down the hill to flat ground.if your bicycle has a low gear you can use it to skid the log to safe ground also, you have ropes right ?


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 22, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> you have ropes right ?


I'm guessing only 6# test fishing line...will that work?


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## Brushpile (Jul 22, 2015)

No professional here, but, I'd cut from 14 (the fence) down, then undercut at 12, fix my fence and to hell with the rest of it.


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## kz1000 (Jul 22, 2015)

What Brushpile said.


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## Matt J Leppek (Jul 22, 2015)

Give this video a watch. A bit monotone, but very good information. It explains tension points and gives good illustration, along with some cutting techniques.


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> I believe you guys are being trolled....a farmer without a tractor??, dodging questions, it reeks of brush ape


Troll? I don't know what that is. Or why people would do it. I have a small farm with some livestock in the paddock. I am not a troll. I am a good guy.


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

Spellfeller said:


> I'll bite.
> To that end, IMHO, this kit (200' version)--or the NZ equivalent--is one of the best possible purchases the amateur tree worker can buy. Drag the tree down the hill, drag it ACROSS the bench, just try to get it so the whole log--and not just the two ends--is supported. If the tree weighs more than 1500# (the capacity of the rope puller), follow BCWetCoast's advice and cut at 14, letting the top drop down the hill.



I do have a set of two truck straps - winch ratchets that have a lot of pull power. I could cut the crown of at 13, then at 12 (the dangerous part) then winch the tree to the side.


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Have you tried the sloping back cut before ? Aka farmer cut ? You see a sloped cut at the stump will help it slide off and shoot down the hill to flat ground.if your bicycle has a low gear you can use it to skid the log to safe ground also, you have ropes right ?


Yes I have excellent tree ropes. Long and strong. Two winches (HD truck straps) and a block and tackle (which I only use for hoisting animals for butchering).


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

Matt J Leppek said:


> Give this video a watch. A bit monotone, but very good information. It explains tension points and gives good illustration, along with some cutting techniques.



Yes. I watched it all. Good training. Thanks.


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

I measured the diameter at 15 inches near the fence. It appears secure by the roots still. But that could change when I start cutting as the sliding trunck will be unsupported at the fence.






I think this has top bind. And a sideways force. I have truck strap ratchet winches. Any further counsel or ideas are welcome as I don't want to get injured?


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## Spellfeller (Jul 22, 2015)

Henk said:


> I measured the diameter at 15 inches near the fence. It appears secure by the roots still. But that could change when I start cutting as the sliding trunck will be unsupported at the fence.
> 
> I think this has top bind. And a sideways force. I have truck strap ratchet winches. Any further counsel or ideas are welcome as I don't want to get injured?



The picture helps a little, Henk. You are right that the wood on the top is being compressed, causing a top bind. It's harder to tell about sideways forces without pictures from multiple angles. 

If you don't have time to get the Jepson book, here's another video. Mother Nature has already done the falling, so you can skip to the "limbing and bucking" part that begins around 28:13.


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## Matt J Leppek (Jul 22, 2015)

Make a face notch on top of 14 about 1/4 of the way through, and slowly do and undercut. This will give you time to react as the face notch closes on itself, bringing the log to the ground at 14. Continue along towards the trunk of the tree making the same cut every 2-3 feet. Make sure you are standing on the high side of the log and take it slow. 

Be sure to chain break after every cut when you are walking to the next cut, and when carrying a saw point the blade behind you with the handle facing in front of you. If you fall forward, you won't land on the chain.

Safe cutting!


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## Jed1124 (Jul 22, 2015)

I would under cut that right at the fence and be ready to get the hell out of the way. By the looks of it it might hold up at the stump and support the spar off the ground. Then you could just buck the pieces up the spar. That being said, if you have no experience, you have no business cutting this tree. To many variables and ways you can get killed. Call someone in who knows what they are doing. I am not trying to be offensive, just don't want to see you get hurt.


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## Henk (Jul 22, 2015)

Jed1124 said:


> I would under cut that right at the fence and be ready to get the hell out of the way. By the looks of it it might hold up at the stump and support the spar off the ground.



It looks unsupported to me. Only at the ends. Thanks for your ideas.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 22, 2015)

Henk said:


> I measured the diameter at 15 inches near the fence. It appears secure by the roots still. But that could change when I start cutting as the sliding trunck will be unsupported at the fence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cut at the butt and drag it out,,
Jeff


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## Creeker (Jul 23, 2015)

Henk said:


> No tractor. Just a bicycle.


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## Spellfeller (Jul 23, 2015)

Matt J Leppek said:


> Make a face notch on top of 14 about 1/4 of the way through, and slowly do and undercut. This will give you time to react as the face notch closes on itself, bringing the log to the ground at 14. Continue along towards the trunk of the tree making the same cut every 2-3 feet. Make sure you are standing on the high side of the log and take it slow.





jefflovstrom said:


> Cut at the butt and drag it out,,



Both of these are good advice, though as far as #2 is concerned and judging from your photo, I'm not sure you can actually access the butt of the tree given the lay of the land and how the tree fell.

The only thing left out of #1 is the question of the supporting limbs. They are under a lot of compression/tension forces too. The Husky video covers this in part, where the instructor essentially "shaves" the limb a little bit at a time. 

Ultimately, like Jed, no one wants this to go badly for you. Given your inexperience and understandable uncertainty, is there someone with more experience who could come and advise/help?



Jed1124 said:


> That being said, if you have no experience, you have no business cutting this tree. To many variables and ways you can get killed. Call someone in who knows what they are doing. I am not trying to be offensive, just don't want to see you get hurt.


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## genestar (Jul 23, 2015)

Matt J Leppek said:


> Make a face notch on top of 14 about 1/4 of the way through, and slowly do and undercut. This will give you time to react as the face notch closes on itself, bringing the log to the ground at 14. Continue along towards the trunk of the tree making the same cut every 2-3 feet. Make sure you are standing on the high side of the log and take it slow.
> 
> Be sure to chain break after every cut when you are walking to the next cut, and when carrying a saw point the blade behind you with the handle facing in front of you. If you fall forward, you won't land on the chain.
> 
> Safe cutting!


I've removed more than a few widow maker snags thay rookies made on public land using this same technique. 
I recommend going a 12" at a time instead of 24"-36".

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## genestar (Jul 23, 2015)

Also would recommend securing the base on the uphill side with enough rope, chain or steel cable to a solid anchor so that if it looses root support, it doesn't come down on top of you.

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## Henk (Jul 23, 2015)

genestar said:


> Also would recommend securing the base on the uphill side with enough rope, chain or steel cable to a solid anchor so that if it looses root support, it doesn't come down on top of you.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk



Yes. I can strap that back using my winches to prevent sliding.


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## BGE541 (Jul 23, 2015)

I would walk the tree, and if safe, limb it and clear out the limbs/brush, them re-assess the area and see it their are direction forces you may have missed or not been able to see before, remember a tree rarely drops straight down and you don't want to be in its path. This tree looks like it still should have some good mass on the "other" side of the fence... did the top break off in the fall, still attached? Flat land on other side or continuing slope?


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## Trx250r180 (Jul 23, 2015)

Hey Hank, if i was closer i would chop it up for you,but in all seriousness ,if you have to ask how to do this on an internet forum, maybe someone else should cut it for you. Things can go wrong fast if you dont read the tree right.


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## Gypo Logger (Jul 23, 2015)

It's a piece of cake. Limb it and block it.
John


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## Henk (Jul 24, 2015)

BGE541 said:


> I would walk the tree, and if safe, limb it and clear out the limbs/brush, them re-assess the area and see it their are direction forces you may have missed or not been able to see before,



I have cleared around it. Made escape routes. Removed limbs which were not under stress.
It looks like a giant Rat Trap.


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## BGE541 (Jul 24, 2015)

Good... whats next? How tall is it to the center of the log? (Middle) off the ground if you were standing?


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## genestar (Jul 30, 2015)

No reply. ....could be he's stuck under the log?

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## Vizionary (Jul 31, 2015)

genestar said:


> No reply. ....could be he's stuck under the log?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


Or he is still trying to chainsaw the tree  

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## genestar (Jul 31, 2015)

Vizionary said:


> Or he is still trying to chainsaw the tree
> 
> Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk


Maybe using a wire saw with a split ring on each end from a survival kit?

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## Vizionary (Jul 31, 2015)

genestar said:


> Maybe using a wire saw with a split ring on each end from a survival kit?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


He called a truck company to order a few trailers of dirt to fill up the hole [emoji2].
No more tension on that tree 

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## genestar (Jul 31, 2015)

Vizionary said:


> He called a truck company to order a few trailers of dirt to fill up the hole [emoji2].
> No more tension on that tree
> 
> Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk


If he put enough dirt under it....maybe 4000 loads..... he could have it leaning uphill instead of down hill!

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## Vizionary (Aug 10, 2015)

Still chainsawin' that tree? 

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