# Trim to bid, or bid to trim?



## jefflovstrom (Sep 21, 2006)

Hi people, I am back after a brief leave and noticed ISA forum shut down. Anyway, I have asked this question before and never got a good answer. Do you trim to the bid or do you bid to trim. 
I know the answer but never got one in a forum.
Jeff Lovstrom-WE7624A


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## rebelman (Sep 21, 2006)

Bid to Trim. Try to figure out what the tree needs ahead of time, and bid that job. If you find hidden damage, or change your mind mid climb, then trim to the bid.


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## squisher (Sep 23, 2006)

I usually bid before I trim but maybe I didn't understand the question.


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## jefflovstrom (May 29, 2009)

Seems like a simple question. You know the answer.
Jeff
(tangled?)


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## TreEmergencyB (May 30, 2009)

rebelman said:


> Bid to Trim. Try to figure out what the tree needs ahead of time, and bid that job. If you find hidden damage, or change your mind mid climb, then trim to the bid.



:agree2:


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## tree md (May 30, 2009)

I go to great lengths to make sure there is no confusion on a prune job. I usually go so far as to itemize the actual limbs to be pruned. So I bid to trim I guess. If all I am going to do is deadwood then I will get a count of how many dead limbs I'm going to prune, go over it with the client, have them sign off on the work order then do it. If they want more taken out I usually ask them why because it is usually unnecessary but if they have a valid point and I add something on it is added to the bill.


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## jefflovstrom (May 30, 2009)

What if you are op's and did not sell the job?


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## treemandan (May 30, 2009)

I dole it out depending on what the customer feels like spending on trimming the trees. I do what they pay for.


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## treemandan (May 30, 2009)

jefflovstrom said:


> What if you are op's and did not sell the job?



I don't understand. op's?


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## tree md (May 30, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I don't understand. op's?



Operations.

If I have someone else doing one of my jobs I usually meet them on site and tell them exactly what is to be done. If not, My work orders are usually descriptive enough and I kind of count on whoever is running the job to have enough common sense to know what needs to be done. I do hear you on that though. A lot can be lost in communication between sales and operations. Sometimes it can be challenging at best. HO's know this and will try to exploit it. I am speaking mostly from the experience of the operations side when I say that.


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## ozzy42 (May 30, 2009)

tree md said:


> Operations.
> Sometimes it can be challenging at best. HO's know this and will try to exploit it. I am speaking mostly from the experience of the operations side when I say that.


:agree2:
I have had HOs try to tell me what the sales guy promised them, not realizing I WAS the one who bid the job.
Usually goes fairly smooth after that is settled.


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## treemandan (May 30, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> :agree2:
> I have had HOs try to tell me what the sales guy promised them, not realizing I WAS the one who bid the job.
> Usually goes fairly smooth after that is settled.



Ha, I was just about to start in myself on the topic but it could get outta control but yeah I gottcha.


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## treemandan (May 30, 2009)

tree md said:


> Operations.
> 
> If I have someone else doing one of my jobs I usually meet them on site and tell them exactly what is to be done. If not, My work orders are usually descriptive enough and I kind of count on whoever is running the job to have enough common sense to know what needs to be done. I do hear you on that though. A lot can be lost in communication between sales and operations. Sometimes it can be challenging at best. HO's know this and will try to exploit it. I am speaking mostly from the experience of the operations side when I say that.



I love to get a work order that just says "prune the tree". Some advice I got from a guy: " yer an idiot if you send guys out to do this work and you don't go with them, it is certain to be your downfall "


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## Legit_Arborist (Mar 23, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> What if you are op's and did not sell the job?



If you are ops and didn't sell the job...then it is your responsibility to teach your sales rep to bid appropriately. You run the risk of losing customers by doing simple raising cuts or only low visible cuts to make the bid work. Does you sales rep know anything about tree trimming or is he just a numbers guy? A good ops manager helps establish the quality of work a company dishes out. If the ops manager is a shady character...then the trees will always be full and pruning cuts will always be made just in the first few visible feet. Happens all the time and it's unethical.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 23, 2010)

Legit_Arborist said:


> If you are ops and didn't sell the job...then it is your responsibility to teach your sales rep to bid appropriately. You run the risk of losing customers by doing simple raising cuts or only low visible cuts to make the bid work. Does you sales rep know anything about tree trimming or is he just a numbers guy? A good ops manager helps establish the quality of work a company dishes out. If the ops manager is a shady character...then the trees will always be full and pruning cuts will always be made just in the first few visible feet. Happens all the time and it's unethical.



You obviously have been searching the site, but , don't think you can preach to me. Search more and maybe search where I work. Taking a post out of content is jumping to enhance your ego.
Jeff Lovstrom
urbantreecarecare.com


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## ozarktreeman (Mar 28, 2010)

opcorn: This should be good.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 28, 2010)

ozarktreeman said:


> opcorn: This should be good.



Yeah, If the troll comes back, should be good.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 28, 2010)

It is kinda cool going back thru the archives,tho.
Jeff


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## Legit_Arborist (Mar 29, 2010)

*Wow*

Wow...I thought this was a serious question. I didn't know you would be so offended by my opinion. Are you ops or sales? Based on your reply I'd imagine that if you are either...then something about my reply must have struck a chord with you. If ops...do you skimp to make the job come in good? If sales...do you lack the necessary knowledge to bid correctly? What's your problem?

I saw your website and am familiar with your company. I'm sure you don't top trees like most hacks...but in my circle of influence...your company is not spoken of respectfully. Hence your reply I suppose. Want to see a real company website? check this one out...these guys are serious in not only San Diego but in California in general. www.arborwell.com 

You would do well to take after this company. I know the owner and have a great deal of respect for him. Do you know who Peter Sortwell is?


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

Arborwell hires the guys I won't. Yeah, I know Butch! They were Stay Green and they still are even tho Arborwell bought them. Arborwell! Ha!
Jeff


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## DK_stihl (Mar 29, 2010)

*Bid*

Trim to bid! If people want to be extra picky, that should be reflected in the price they pay. After all, trees are nice but they don't pay us, people do!


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## Legit_Arborist (Mar 29, 2010)

Oh...so Urban Tree Care is where all the illegals must go then. Because I know that Arborwell is a TCIA Accredited company and that's a very respectable acknowledgement. I imagine the employees he hires must be too expensive for you...is that why you won't hire them?

By the way...who are you anyway? I just looked at your website and unless you're Tim, Jacob or Rick...you don't seem to matter much to the company...why isn't your face on the website? I'd imagine someone in the position to hire and or fire would be recognized on a company webpage...as you just admitted you have the ability to hire.

You're a real winner. You sound like just another cocky tree cowboy to me with something to prove. The people I respect in the industry come across as professional and courteous. You come across as drunk and foolish...let's face it...you most likely are.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

Legit_Arborist said:


> Wow...I thought this was a serious question. I didn't know you would be so offended by my opinion. Are you ops or sales? Based on your reply I'd imagine that if you are either...then something about my reply must have struck a chord with you. If ops...do you skimp to make the job come in good? If sales...do you lack the necessary knowledge to bid correctly? What's your problem?
> 
> I saw your website and am familiar with your company. I'm sure you don't top trees like most hacks...but in my circle of influence...your company is not spoken of respectfully. Hence your reply I suppose. Want to see a real company website? check this one out...these guys are serious in not only San Diego but in California in general. www.arborwell.com
> 
> You would do well to take after this company. I know the owner and have a great deal of respect for him. Do you know who Peter Sortwell is?



I am up-front who I am, un-like you! Is this you Butch? Your profile is arcane. You would do well by tending you biz and put on a tough skin! You may think you know me, but sales has to listen to me and I them, after 30 plus years, I think I know what I am doing, and I am ugly , so that is not what I am paid for. Arborwell is basically turning into a franchise and buying up hacks! I see your work. I know your guy's!
Jeff
See ya around.


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## Legit_Arborist (Mar 29, 2010)

I didn't ask if you knew who Butch was...can't you read you illiterate fool. Peter Sortwell doesn't spell Butch!


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

OMG! Did I strike a cord?
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

Then again, you could be the little angry punk named Adam who is soooo madd!!!
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

Legit_Arborist said:


> I didn't ask if you knew who Butch was...can't you read you illiterate fool. Peter Sortwell doesn't spell Butch!



Nope, He hires Butch! That makes him--well.
Jeff


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## Legit_Arborist (Mar 29, 2010)

Adam, Butch..you can call me Sally if it makes you happy. The bottom line is...I'll be sure to direct those on my campus to your posts and allow them to see the quality of character respresented by your company. You should mind yourself when you don't know who you are speaking with. I'm glad my friend told me to look at this site. This is very interesting.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

Keep it coming and after 30 plus years here, I will figure out who you are since you want to hide! Jealous and stupid and greedy.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

Legit_Arborist said:


> Oh...so Urban Tree Care is where all the illegals must go then. Because I know that Arborwell is a TCIA Accredited company and that's a very respectable acknowledgement. I imagine the employees he hires must be too expensive for you...is that why you won't hire them?
> 
> By the way...who are you anyway? I just looked at your website and unless you're Tim, Jacob or Rick...you don't seem to matter much to the company...why isn't your face on the website? I'd imagine someone in the position to hire and or fire would be recognized on a company webpage...as you just admitted you have the ability to hire.
> 
> You're a real winner. You sound like just another cocky tree cowboy to me with something to prove. The people I respect in the industry come across as professional and courteous. You come across as drunk and foolish...let's face it...you most likely are.



OK Dumbo, You are lying about the wesite- since anyone can go to "urbantreecare.com" and see. Also,Because there is someone in the franchise in Northern California with a TCIA accredidation doesn't make the branches acreddited. Seems like you are the angry drunk and jealous!
Also, I don't hire without e-verify and a drivers license. How many guys will now go to the web-site and see if you are lying?
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

I feel sorry for you!
Jeff


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## Legit_Arborist (Mar 29, 2010)

I take pleasure in your assumption that I am in the same line of business as you. I have a life outside of the web. Goodnight. Read a book.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

Your name could be Adam, or Butch. Or,well, you hide and I don't, that says alot!
Jeff


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## ropensaddle (Mar 29, 2010)

I bid to trim but don't get them the landscapers and illegals get that workopcorn:


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## Legit_Arborist (Mar 29, 2010)

*My mistake.*

You are right. I did not look at the "meet the staff portion." My apologies. You are right about another thing...you ARE ugly. Don't hold your breath before a photo...try to smile...it will bring out your beautiful eyes.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

Why are you hiding who you are?
Jeff


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## TreeeWizzz (Mar 29, 2010)

FYI - this was posted on TCIAs web site. looks like Arborwell San Diego is accredited. wasn't hard to look it either. 


Arborwell Hayward CA (888) 969-8733 03/07/2006 
Arborwell San Marcos CA (888) 969-8733 07/16/2009 

https://secure.tcia.org/Consumer/MemberSearch.aspx?Accredited=1&State=CA


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## ozarktreeman (Mar 29, 2010)

San Diego must be smaller than we think?


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## TreeeWizzz (Mar 29, 2010)

San Marcos is in northern San Diego


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## ozarktreeman (Mar 29, 2010)

TreeeWizzz said:


> San Marcos is in northern San Diego



That explains thing's.Jeff is obviously from the southern part.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

Nah, I am in the northern part. Just because a company buys another company, doesn't mean they are the same caliber. Arborwel bought Stay-Green and because Arborwell is accredited, doesn't mean much if it is just a paper transfer. I go for my CTSP in on April 27 and 28th. But we did it on our own and not by a company buying us out and posing it's credits on to us. Tough times brings out some angry losers that have a couple years of book learning and wondering why they are not as successful as they think they should be. We have 6 ISA Cert. Arborists on staff and Arborwell does not in our neck of the woods, they don't. In another month we will be accredited, then what? Like I said, I have been here a long time and sometimes that can make for enemies that are jealous and young and in it for the money rather than the care of the clients and their trees.
Jeff


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## ozarktreeman (Mar 29, 2010)

Dam! all the scraping you do on here I was sure you were from southern San Diego.Find out your just a Cali, Yankee!lol


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

Man of the Ozarks!
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 29, 2010)

Actually, all over San Diego and Riverside and Los Angeles and etc...
Jeff


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## Legit_Arborist (Mar 29, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Nah, I am in the northern part. Just because a company buys another company, doesn't mean they are the same caliber. Arborwel bought Stay-Green and because Arborwell is accredited, doesn't mean much if it is just a paper transfer. I go for my CTSP in on April 27 and 28th. But we did it on our own and not by a company buying us out and posing it's credits on to us. Tough times brings out some angry losers that have a couple years of book learning and wondering why they are not as successful as they think they should be. We have 6 ISA Cert. Arborists on staff and Arborwell does not in our neck of the woods, they don't. In another month we will be accredited, then what? Like I said, I have been here a long time and sometimes that can make for enemies that are jealous and young and in it for the money rather than the care of the clients and their trees.
> Jeff



I wonder how the people you are making these comments about would respond if you said this to them. I'll bet, JeffLovstrom, that you are not as "by the book" as you lead on to be. I'm going to ask around about you some more and dig up some dirt on your company. Let's see if you are as legitimate at you claim to be. I'll actually start off by emailing these posts to Butch. I see his email is available on Arborwell's website. Let's see how your slander comes across. And maybe he'll know who this Adam person is you referred to. I'll send your comments about him his way as well. I'll keep you posted.

Is everyone on this site as undisciplined and out of control as JeffLovstrom? If so...this site is not as reputable as my friend had led me to believe.


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## ozarktreeman (Mar 30, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Actually, all over San Diego and Riverside and Los Angeles and etc...
> Jeff



Just Don't come to the Ozarks have to put a whoopin on your azz!
We are not certified here we are certifiable.LOL:crazy1:


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## treemandan (Mar 30, 2010)

Legit_Arborist said:


> I wonder how the people you are making these comments about would respond if you said this to them. I'll bet, JeffLovstrom, that you are not as "by the book" as you lead on to be. I'm going to ask around about you some more and dig up some dirt on your company. Let's see if you are as legitimate at you claim to be. I'll actually start off by emailing these posts to Butch. I see his email is available on Arborwell's website. Let's see how your slander comes across. And maybe he'll know who this Adam person is you referred to. I'll send your comments about him his way as well. I'll keep you posted.
> 
> Is everyone on this site as undisciplined and out of control as JeffLovstrom? If so...this site is not as reputable as my friend had led me to believe.



I can't say for everybody but I am.

Hey, you got a picture of Jeff? Hell, I lost his web address, let me have it. I gotta see this.


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## tree md (Mar 30, 2010)

treemandan said:


> *I can't say for everybody but I am.
> *
> Hey, you got a picture of Jeff? Hell, I lost his web address, let me have it. I gotta see this.



:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## newsawtooth (Mar 30, 2010)

What's a Legit_Arborist?


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## Legit_Arborist (Mar 30, 2010)

Legit_Arborist is a catchy name...just like your name and many others in here. Legit = Legitimate.

go to www.urbantreecare.com and you'll find the pic you're looking for. You'll need to search the site for it. Happy trails.:monkey:


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## treemandan (Mar 30, 2010)

I fount Jeff's Site!


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## treemandan (Mar 30, 2010)

Really wasn't that hard to do, just went to his profile and there it was. Anyway I have a feeling Slayer really did call Jeff a few time didn't you Slayer you sick bastard. :greenchainsaw:


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## treemandan (Mar 30, 2010)

Don't worry Jeff, its not that bad, they can fix ugly now anyway, espcially out there.

Nice site too. I saw what they said about you. What kind of money would you pay me?


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## newsawtooth (Mar 30, 2010)

*Ooohhh,*



Legit_Arborist said:


> Legit_Arborist is a catchy name...just like your name and many others in here. Legit = Legitimate.
> 
> go to www.urbantreecare.com and you'll find the pic you're looking for. You'll need to search the site for it. Happy trails.:monkey:



.....legitimate? It's a good thing you came by because we argue about this all the time. How do you know when you're legitimate? ISA, TCIA, OHSA, ANSI, UAA, BBB, SMA, accreditation? How 'bout just a chainsaw and insurance? You gotta fill us in.


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## treemandan (Mar 30, 2010)

newsawtooth said:


> .....legitimate? It's a good thing you came by because we argue about this all the time. How do you know when you're legitimate? ISA, TCIA, OHSA, ANSI, UAA, BBB, SMA, accreditation? How 'bout just a chainsaw and insurance? You gotta fill us in.



All of that plus the rectal implant.

hey, what is the matter with you anyway? This is America, ligitamacy went out the window a long time ago.


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## newsawtooth (Mar 30, 2010)

treemandan said:


> All of that plus the rectal implant.
> 
> hey, what is the matter with you anyway? This is America, ligitamacy went out the window a long time ago.



This rectal implant, does it require a lot of paper work? Is there a multiple choice test?


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## tree md (Mar 30, 2010)

I have to admit that I set back and giggle myself silly when all the banter about who is more legit gets going around here.

I find it highly entertaining... :hmm3grin2orange:


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## ropensaddle (Mar 30, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Don't worry Jeff, its not that bad, they can fix ugly now anyway, espcially out there.
> 
> Nice site too. I saw what they said about you. What kind of money would you pay me?



Yeah I saw him too lol it seems he has a face that looks ticked they like those in management. I once knew a guy that was hired for that look but he was merely a teddy bear in disguise. To be honest if they have the Hollywood look I would feel they had not been aloft. I have seen some in these big companies imo that never climbed enough or at all Don't worry Jeff you ain't have as ugly as I and ozark :hmm3grin2orange:


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## TreeTarget (Mar 30, 2010)

ozarktreeman said:


> Just Don't come to the Ozarks have to put a whoopin on your azz!
> We are not certified here we are certifiable.LOL:crazy1:



...not so much about the "whoopin" part unless there is a need, but we _are_ certifiable...pieces of paper on a wall or info in an inflated database doesn't mean much to a multitude of 'good 'ol boys' when they hear word of mouth...The legal battles being set up like chess tournaments on this thread would seem to lend credence to simplicity...
The meek just need wait for the greedy to litigate themselves into oblivion, then we shall inherit the earth, fashioning jokes about what seemed so important just yesterday...


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 30, 2010)

TreeTarget said:


> ...not so much about the "whoopin" part unless there is a need, but we _are_ certifiable...pieces of paper on a wall or info in an inflated database doesn't mean much to a multitude of 'good 'ol boys' when they hear word of mouth...The legal battles being set up like chess tournaments on this thread would seem to lend credence to simplicity...
> The meek just need wait for the greedy to litigate themselves into oblivion, then we shall inherit the earth, fashioning jokes about what seemed so important just yesterday...



I grew up in the swamps of Florida and I took "The man of the Ozarks" to be quite witty and all in jest. I have no idea what you are saying.
Jeff


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## ozarktreeman (Mar 30, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Yeah I saw him too lol it seems he has a face that looks ticked they like those in management. I once knew a guy that was hired for that look but he was merely a teddy bear in disguise. To be honest if they have the Hollywood look I would feel they had not been aloft. I have seen some in these big companies imo that never climbed enough or at all Don't worry Jeff you ain't have as ugly as I and ozark :hmm3grin2orange:



Easy big fella I have a face for HOGGYWOOD!


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## ropensaddle (Mar 30, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I grew up in the swamps of Florida
> Jeff



Hmmmmmmmm so that musta been rough lmao did you fight gators over breakfast?:monkey:


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## ropensaddle (Mar 30, 2010)

ozarktreeman said:


> Easy big fella I have a face for HOGGYWOOD!



Yeah I am a bit less photogenic


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 30, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Hmmmmmmmm so that musta been rough lmao did you fight gators over breakfast?:monkey:



Nah, they left you alone if you left them alone-lol- good one Rope!
Jeff


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## ropensaddle (Mar 30, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> good one Rope!
> Jeff



Premature senior moment


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## TreeTarget (Mar 30, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I grew up in the swamps of Florida and I took "The man of the Ozarks" to be quite witty and all in jest. I have no idea what you are saying.
> Jeff



...so neg repping is your answer to misunderstanding what I wrote? Maybe a visit to the Ozarks might in fact, teach some lessons in manners the swamp seems to have forgotten...
Disagreement should breed interaction and conversation, resulting in the evolution of the human intellect, it should not degenerate into the penalizing of those whom you claim to not comprehend.

...You misrepresent yourself when you claim a point and disregard all others...treemen above all, should know that bending, not giving, is far more understandable, forgiving and respectable than is breaking...which is what you do when you penalize their views on a subject...

Don't like what was said?

C'est la vie...but be better than stooping to giving out neg rep, due only to your lack of insight.


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## Legit_Arborist (Mar 31, 2010)

newsawtooth said:


> .....legitimate? It's a good thing you came by because we argue about this all the time. How do you know when you're legitimate? ISA, TCIA, OHSA, ANSI, UAA, BBB, SMA, accreditation? How 'bout just a chainsaw and insurance? You gotta fill us in.



That is a great question. I think a legitimate arborist is one who actually knows something about trees as opposed to simply being able to study. I do not believe that a reputable arborist must have first worked in trees...but that is a bonus if they have. They must have a good reputation both in the face of their peers and with those they are close with. Character is important.

Arborists come in all shapes and sizes. There are arborists for commercial tree trimming outfits, professors, facilities managers etc. For the sake of this forum, I am under the impression that many of you are commercial tree trimmers. So I think that a legitimate outfit is minimally not breaking the law or and ANSI or OSHA standards. They are honest regarding pay and do not pay cash under the table to avoid comp and taxes or use faulty comp classifications (such as classifying their workers as landscapers...which is a rampant problem as was addressed at the TCIA Winter Management Conference by some of the younger members.) 

I believe a legitimate arborist is also honest when it comes to work and stands for the principles of quality in this industry and do not make compromises for the sake of fast cash or laziness.

That should suffice for now.


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## Legit_Arborist (Mar 31, 2010)

newsawtooth said:


> This rectal implant, does it require a lot of paper work? Is there a multiple choice test?



The rectal implant is for "LIBERAL" arborists...but we were talking about "LEGITIMATE" arborists.


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## treemandan (Mar 31, 2010)

Legit_Arborist said:


> The rectal implant is for "LIBERAL" arborists...but we were talking about "LEGITIMATE" arborists.



Howzat armchair treatin ya? Do they give you a big pick up truck too?


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 31, 2010)

Sometimes, there are guys that have no idea what to do in life but they know they are book smart and also they believe the world should listen to them because they feel they are owed respect when they really don't know how to climb a tree or what knots are and they by-pass that with big words and book learning combined with a big ego and then get very angry when the cards don't fall in their favor. I know a couple of guys like that. Clients see right thru these type of people. When reality hits these guys, they go off the deep end and look for ways to diminish their competitors. It is really sad and self-destructive. Just my opinion.
Jeff


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## TreeTarget (Mar 31, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Sometimes, there are guys that have no idea what to do in life but they know they are book smart and also they believe the world should listen to them because they feel they are owed respect when they really don't know how to climb a tree or what knots are and they by-pass that with big words and book learning combined with a big ego and then get very angry when the cards don't fall in their favor. I know a couple of guys like that. Clients see right thru these type of people. When reality hits these guys, they go off the deep end and look for ways to diminish their competitors. It is really sad and self-destructive. Just my opinion.
> Jeff



Lucky for everyone, I am just a groundie...so don't have to deal with clients whilst waging pitched battle with my ego...no, I do not own a thesaurus...but know how to climb a tree...just don't want to...

Ask the boss, TreeTarget no play poker, as his brother has scalped me many times in the past...so I do not gamble...especially with the one in charge of what's above me, and about to fall...

My book lernin's only git into the campfire talk after the wirk is dun...them fancy ribons and papers only fill a box in the root cellar, next to the taters.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 31, 2010)

TreeTarget said:


> Lucky for everyone, I am just a groundie...so don't have to deal with clients whilst waging pitched battle with my ego...no, I do not own a thesaurus...but know how to climb a tree...just don't want to...
> 
> Ask the boss, TreeTarget no play poker, as his brother has scalped me many times in the past...so I do not gamble...especially with the one in charge of what's above me, and about to fall...
> 
> My book lernin's only git into the campfire talk after the wirk is dun...them fancy ribons and papers only fill a box in the root cellar, next to the taters.



Ease up- this was not directed at you, although you probably have a thicker skin than those it was directed to! 
Jeff


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## TreeTarget (Apr 1, 2010)

...just saying...never know someone 'til the eulogy is spoken...but then, that isn't always right, either...


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## outofmytree (Apr 1, 2010)

Prepare for Armeggedon sinners...... Well its got to be the end of the world because I am about to agree with JeffLovstrom about something....

Anyone who cares to look knows that I often disagree with Jeff on just about anything. But there is one thing I will give credit for and that is that he is visible and speaks his mind. Albeit that I often think his mind is AWOL.

Legitarborist. So far all I have seen from you in this and other threads is baiting and provocation. You remind me of Ekka without skills (and for those regulars who have seen some of my disagreements with Ekka that is a big statement.) If you want to be taken seriously you need to post some bonafides. How about telling us all who you are perhaps with a photo or two of your work or even a video. After all, this is *arborist*site. Not "I once read a book about trees" site.


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 1, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Prepare for Armeggedon sinners...... Well its got to be the end of the world because I am about to agree with JeffLovstrom about something....
> 
> Anyone who cares to look knows that I often disagree with Jeff on just about anything. But there is one thing I will give credit for and that is that he is visible and speaks his mind. Albeit that I often think his mind is AWOL.
> 
> Legitarborist. So far all I have seen from you in this and other threads is baiting and provocation. You remind me of Ekka without skills (and for those regulars who have seen some of my disagreements with Ekka that is a big statement.) If you want to be taken seriously you need to post some bonafides. How about telling us all who you are perhaps with a photo or two of your work or even a video. After all, this is *arborist*site. Not "I once read a book about trees" site.



Gracias OOMT, I am not afraid of taking my whipping when I desrve it. Anyway, I know who this guy is and confirmed this afternoon. I won't out him because I am bigger than that and you are right. He has never done tree work but can read and test well. Ask him how he broke his hand and we will all get a good laugh. He has a big ego and ADHD . very short and looks gay. Thinks the world should listen to him and tempermental. If he is reading this, he knows I know. If he thinks I am guessing, a white Toyota Tacoma is what he drives. 15 years my ass, try 5 years learning books.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 1, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Arborwell hires the guys I won't. Yeah, I know Butch! They were Stay Green and they still are even tho Arborwell bought them. Arborwell! Ha!
> Jeff



I now must apologize to Arborwell, they now are accredited. I will take my whipping now. 
Jeff


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## ropensaddle (Apr 1, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Gracias OOMT, I am not afraid of taking my whipping when I desrve it. Anyway, I know who this guy is and confirmed this afternoon. I won't out him because I am bigger than that and you are right. He has never done tree work but can read and test well. Ask him how he broke his hand and we will all get a good laugh. He has a big ego and ADHD . very short and looks gay. Thinks the world should listen to him and tempermental. If he is reading this, he knows I know. If he thinks I am guessing, a white Toyota Tacoma is what he drives. 15 years my ass, try 5 years learning books.
> Jeff



Brahahahaha bout how I figured. Just so you know legit I think its great you learned the books now try to use that for an asset instead of being a :censored: There is another arborist that used to come in no climbing either but a wealth of knowledge. Try helping in the home owner helper forum is my advise.


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## ClimbinArbor (Apr 2, 2010)

TreeTarget said:


> them fancy ribons and papers only fill a box in the root cellar, next to the taters.



Ive said it before and ill say it again....

Certification means so much urine in a pot....

Ive met many "certified arborist" who didnt know jack about caring for trees....


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 2, 2010)

ClimbinArbor said:


> Ive said it before and ill say it again....
> 
> Certification means so much urine in a pot....
> 
> Ive met many "certified arborist" who didnt know jack about caring for trees....



I would not paint with such a broad brush, you would be surprised.
Jeff


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## outofmytree (Apr 3, 2010)

I believe everyone, especially me, can benefit from further education. The learning itself doesnt make me better or worse its what I do with it. 

I have always liked the old saying that God gave me 2 ears and 1 mouth and I should use them in that proportion.


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## EdenT (Apr 3, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> I have always liked the old saying that God gave me 2 ears and 1 mouth and I should use them in that proportion.



And Bill Gates gave me 1 screen with 101 keys - prepare to read my opinions!


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## TreeTarget (Apr 3, 2010)

That could get scary...


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 3, 2010)

EdenT said:


> And Bill Gates gave me 1 screen with 101 keys - prepare to read my opinions!



You can open lot's of doors with that many keys. 
Jeff


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## TreeTarget (Apr 5, 2010)

Motivation, or lack thereof...anger or frustration...Never know what is behind one "qualified" individual as opposed to another. Have known a few failed lawyers and med students that went into teaching or psychology, and a few were good, but...

...pick someone who went into the field because they WANTED to and LIKE it...not a settler.

Many colleges are publish or perish...and rarely do you ever see the professor in the class; more often than not it is their master's/doctoral candidate teaching the class so that they can go do research and write their books.

Does the job pay enough to live and keep the bad habits? Seen a few hang by thier last threads, supporting habits they know are destructive, but are comfortable with.

I loved teaching and being a guiding force for students, but could not get past the bureaucracy (sp?) and the $2.10 an hour after everything is factored in...Loved pyschology and fathoming the depths of the mind/persona, but was not comfortable in a lab coat or listening to people whine for a fifty minute hour.

I liked Tonka trucks (not the cheapo passes of today, I mean the METAL Tonka Trucks it would take a car run-over to destroy--the ones you could ride in until you were 3 or 4yrs. old) and sneaking off with Dad's tools to make some slip-shod construction the gang called a fort or raft or something...

We all go into what we do, for whatever reasons we are stuck with, or choose to employ, or are brave enough to attempt. There are a few individuals, in my book, that are more "qualified" and informed than alot of the "certified" masses that I have been privileged to meet.

Until proven otherwise, give me the old hand, with the wisdom, an' shucks, sum book lernin' shore wont hurt nun, over the know-it-all right out of the dorm.

Conversation, communication, and just a little bit of time on the part of the professor, lab rat, and way on down to us flunkies hauling the end product...would do alot to further any discipline...

...no job more important than another...just more swollen heads at certain levels.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 5, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> You can open lot's of doors with that many keys.
> Jeff



Some doors are better left closed lol


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