# Stihl chain grind angles, 60/30/15 (?)



## Plasmech (Jun 13, 2009)

I've been sharpening all my Stihl chains at 60/30/15

60=top plate angle
30=vise angle
+/-15=vise tilt angle (front-back)

is the +/- 15 for the vise tilt angle correct, or should it be zero? For some reason I thought it was +/-15 but now I read somewhere that it's actually zero...any help would be appreciated, thanks! 

(using an Oregon 511a)


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## MCW (Jun 13, 2009)

If it is full chisel chain Stihl specifies 0° whereas others specify 10°. However I've found Stihl chain cuts better if sharpened at 10° (file guide angle/vice tilt angle) although I have limited experience with Stihl full chisel (only used RSC).
I've never sharpened any chains at 15° but am curious to know what chains require those specs - I've never seen any but presume they're out there


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## nmurph (Jun 13, 2009)

i think rs/rsc is 0°. i think the only chisel that is otherwise is Oregon's, and it specifies 10°.


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## huskystihl (Jun 13, 2009)

nmurph said:


> i think rs/rsc is 0°. i think the only chisel that is otherwise is Oregon's, and it specifies 10°.



I think your off on that one. I sharpen semi chisel at zero and full at 10. If i'm wrong than so be it because the rsc cuts great and holds an edge forever at 10


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## huskystihl (Jun 13, 2009)

MCW said:


> If it is full chisel chain Stihl specifies 0° whereas others specify 10°. However I've found Stihl chain cuts better if sharpened at 10° (file guide angle/vice tilt angle) although I have limited experience with Stihl full chisel (only used RSC).
> I've never sharpened any chains at 15° but am curious to know what chains require those specs - I've never seen any but presume they're out there



Our shop stihl grinder only goes to 10. I don't know of any chain that i've used anyway thats required 15


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## Plasmech (Jun 13, 2009)

The chain I'm about to do next is a 33RSC3. I opened up that little piece of paper in the 'ol box that usually takes a highway directly to the trash can and I see that we're looking at:

a: 30
b: 60
c: 90 (or zero)

So it looks like RSC is in fact ground at a 0 degree vise tilt angle. I've been doing it wrong for months! Doh! 

Thanks for the replies.


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## mowoodchopper (Jun 13, 2009)

huskystihl said:


> I think your off on that one. I sharpen semi chisel at zero and full at 10. If i'm wrong than so be it because the rsc cuts great and holds an edge forever at 10



 Cant say about stihl chain exactly but I sharpen all semi chisel at 0 and all full chisel at 10 because it cleans the 90 degree corner out better!


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## Plasmech (Jun 13, 2009)

mowoodchopper said:


> Cant say about stihl chain exactly but I sharpen all semi chisel at 0 and all full chisel at 10 because it cleans the 90 degree corner out better!



Is RSC semi or full chisel?


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## mowoodchopper (Jun 13, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Is RSC semi or full chisel?



RSC is full chisel to my knowledge plasmech, I had trouble with the same ??? on angles when I got my grinder also. The way I have learned to handle this is not by the chain #s its to complicated!
Semi chisel chain the top of the cutter is not squared off , full chisel the top of the cutter is squared off a 90 degree. The semi is rounded, thus semi chisel does not come to a sharp point like the full chisel.
I only use the 10 degree tilt on full chisel as the Angle helps sharpen the very tip of the cutter which on full chisel , rsc included , is crucial!

Hope that helps I am no writer!


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## Plasmech (Jun 14, 2009)

mowoodchopper said:


> RSC is full chisel to my knowledge plasmech, I had trouble with the same ??? on angles when I got my grinder also. The way I have learned to handle this is not by the chain #s its to complicated!
> Semi chisel chain the top of the cutter is not squared off , full chisel the top of the cutter is squared off a 90 degree. The semi is rounded, thus semi chisel does not come to a sharp point like the full chisel.
> I only use the 10 degree tilt on full chisel as the Angle helps sharpen the very tip of the cutter which on full chisel , rsc included , is crucial!
> 
> Hope that helps I am no writer!



I put my .375 pitch 33RSC3 in the grinder today and noted that the factory did NOT sharpen to 60 degrees. Looks more like 75. Is this normal? It's definitely not 60, yet the little paper with the fine print says 60. Weird.


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## mowoodchopper (Jun 14, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> I put my .375 pitch 33RSC3 in the grinder today and noted that the factory did NOT sharpen to 60 degrees. Looks more like 75. Is this normal? It's definitely not 60, yet the little paper with the fine print says 60. Weird.



RSC3 is a little diff than plain rsc, rsc3 has single hump drive links mfor reduced kickback, also has diff tie straps, I cant say on the angles for sure just do your best to match them !


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## huskystihl (Jun 14, 2009)

Griffbm3 said:


> I agree on that point, it definately cleans it out better... But, I have gone back to 0 degrees for one reason only. I got REALLY tired once, and ended up with the opposite angle on 30 CHAINS. I tilted the wrong way without even thinking about it for 30 chains. It was a rainy day, and that was about a full 1/2 of my 72 link RSC at the time... Man that was a pain in the butt to fix.
> 
> Jason



U should have tried one to see how it cut?


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## HuskyPete (Jun 15, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> I put my .375 pitch 33RSC3 in the grinder today and noted that the factory did NOT sharpen to 60 degrees. Looks more like 75. Is this normal? It's definitely not 60, yet the little paper with the fine print says 60. Weird.


Stihl grinds their cutters before the chain is assembled and it is impossible to duplicate their grind angles without running into the tie strap. That is the reason why a lot of people have trouble duplicating the original cutting performance of the chain. I think Stihl has the best stock chains available. Of course those who have experience can exceed the performance of the stock chain because they know through experience what works best. Most of us are trying to learn these skills.:chainsawguy:


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## huskystihl (Jun 15, 2009)

HuskyPete said:


> Stihl grinds their cutters before the chain is assembled and it is impossible to duplicate their grind angles without running into the tie strap. That is the reason why a lot of people have trouble duplicating the original cutting performance of the chain. I think Stihl has the best stock chains available. Of course those who have experience can exceed the performance of the stock chain because they know through experience what works best. Most of us are trying to learn these skills.:chainsawguy:



Rsc or rsc3 I go 60 31 and 10 degree and can hit pretty close to the factory edge and it will hold up just as long assuming nobody hammered in a nail ten years ago or the tree isn't full of hollow rot. I don't know what kind of grinder the OP is using but I actually found that my $100 oregon knockoff with oregon grinding wheels does a better job than the overpriced stihl we have at the shop. I've stated before that i'm pretty good freehanding but put the chains on the grinder once a week to square em up and hit the rakers at 30 thous and always have factory fresh chains.


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## Plasmech (Jun 15, 2009)

huskystihl said:


> Rsc or rsc3 I go 60 31 and 10 degree and can hit pretty close to the factory edge and it will hold up just as long assuming nobody hammered in a nail ten years ago or the tree isn't full of hollow rot. I don't know what kind of grinder the OP is using but I actually found that my $100 oregon knockoff with oregon grinding wheels does a better job than the overpriced stihl we have at the shop. I've stated before that i'm pretty good freehanding but put the chains on the grinder once a week to square em up and hit the rakers at 30 thous and always have factory fresh chains.



31 huh?


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## nmurph (Jun 15, 2009)

> Stihl grinds their cutters before the chain is assembled and it is impossible to duplicate their grind angles without running into the tie strap. That is the reason why a lot of people have trouble duplicating the original cutting performance of the chain.






> I've stated before that i'm pretty good freehanding but put the chains on the grinder once a week to square em up and hit the rakers at 30 thous and always have factory fresh chains.




you seem to contradict yourself.


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## blsnelling (Jun 15, 2009)

I grind all chisel at 10*. It puts a sharper angle on the top plate.


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## 4492011 (Jun 15, 2009)

*Stihl angles*

As I have said before Stihl corp needs to update their information on their chain angles. The information that comes with chains tells you to file everything without a 10 degree hook angle yet the angle chart for their USG grinder tells you to put a 15 degree hook angle on all chains excluding ripping carbide and square ground no matter full chisel or semi chisel most of the common grinders only offer a 10 degree tilt angle except the MAXX grinder and the Stihl USG. Attached is the Stihl USG chart. I can not find the chart that comes with chains on the Stihl website.


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## nmurph (Jun 15, 2009)

that USG chart information is particular to the stihl grinder. you can not use those numbers on other grinders. i sent an email to stihl and received a call from a techy who eplained that to me. the information in the box is correct and the angle is 0° for both chisel and semi.


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## Plasmech (Jun 15, 2009)

nmurph said:


> that USG chart information is particular to the stihl grinder. you can not use those numbers on other grinders. i sent an email to stihl and received a call from a techy who eplained that to me. the information in the box is correct and the angle is 0° for both chisel and semi.



Yea the .pdf chart is showing 40 deg for the wheel angle. That can't be right on the 511a Oregon.

So zero on the vise tilt it is?


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## HuskyPete (Jun 15, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I grind all chisel at 10*. It puts a sharper angle on the top plate.



It may put a sharper angle on part of the top plate, but I'm guessing that the reason that Stihl advocates 0* is that the blunter angle will actually last longer. I also have a sharpening business for knives and chisels for local businesses and there is a big difference between the life of a chisel at 25* and one at 30*. The 30* is no where near as fragile and the same with chef knives at 20 versus 25. I'm not saying that the way you file your chains is wrong because it isn't. The point is that the "normal" person wants longevity as a major goal not speed. As you know race chains are not sharpened to factory specs because they aren't interested in maximum cutting life.


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## huskystihl (Jun 15, 2009)

nmurph said:


> you seem to contradict yourself.



Two different post from different members. I said I have factory fresh chains while someone else said that it's impossible to duplicate. I'll get a pic up here in a bit of one I just did and it's pretty close.


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## huskystihl (Jun 15, 2009)

HuskyPete said:


> It may put a sharper angle on part of the top plate, but I'm guessing that the reason that Stihl advocates 0* is that the blunter angle will actually last longer. I also have a sharpening business for knives and chisels for local businesses and there is a big difference between the life of a chisel at 25* and one at 30*. The 30* is no where near as fragile and the same with chef knives at 20 versus 25. I'm not saying that the way you file your chains is wrong because it isn't. The point is that the "normal" person wants longevity as a major goal not speed. As you know race chains are not sharpened to factory specs because they aren't interested in maximum cutting life.



Stihl recomends 10 deg on the rsc. I stopped to get a blower filter and checked just to be sure. Not that I care because it works but 60,30,10 is right for full chisel, and yes it makes a big diff from degrees of the angle.


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## nmurph (Jun 15, 2009)

huskystihl said:


> Two different post from different members. I said I have factory fresh chains while someone else said that it's impossible to duplicate. I'll get a pic up here in a bit of one I just did and it's pretty close.



i apologize, too many huskies in this thread.


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## mowoodchopper (Jun 15, 2009)

huskystihl said:


> Stihl recomends 10 deg on the rsc. I stopped to get a blower filter and checked just to be sure. Not that I care because it works but 60,30,10 is right for full chisel, and yes it makes a big diff from degrees of the angle.



Same Here!!


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## lumberjackmoe (May 3, 2012)

*So what is it ????*

I just found this information at this time be a logger who is giving me all of the cut off's before the go to the mill uses all 33 RSC 84 chains. Is it best to go 60/30/10 ? Thank you guys for helping me with this, because one sure can't find any help on a Stihl site.


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## beelsr (May 3, 2012)

you're getting diff. opinions because the absolute values, in and of themselves - are kind of unimportant. Different chains, different wood, different saws... all cut differently. If you're running full-chisel in hardwood, you'll sharpen differently than semi-chisel in softwood or whatever.

I've standardized on 60/30 for everything so I don't have to think when I sharpen. I used to sharpen full chisel at 10% - even stihl chain - because the corner isn't flat, as brad says above. it cuts better but I sometimes forget and end up hand filing it at 0. 0 is easier to duplicate when handfiling for me - I can't estimate 10* very well, I guess. It used to bother me that I knew I wasn't getting perfecting the tooth's geometry but I've found that standardizing things as much as possible makes me faster overall: So I lose a tenth of a second per cut. I gain minutes in not having to repeat something because I forgot one variable in my setup. 

it's kind of like finding what particular ammo runs best in a specific gun - you just need to try out some different combos and see what works for you. and then stick with it.


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## H 2 H (May 3, 2012)

I'll have to put a degree wheel on my file tomorrow to see what angles im using


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## Trx250r180 (May 3, 2012)

i do mostly square grinding ,but on my oregon round one on the 10 degree part ,when you do the other side of the chain do you have to loosten the allen bolts up and use the 10 degree on other side of the zero for the other side ? or just set at one 10 degree to left of the zero for both sides of the chain ?be easier if i had a pic to explain


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## lumberjackmoe (May 3, 2012)

*Type of chain and wood*

Beelsr, The chain is a Stihl 33 RSC 84 and the wood is mostly white oak and other hard woods. Another # for the chain is 3623 005 0084 Oilomatic.


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## beelsr (May 3, 2012)

if all you have is RSC and you're cutting clean wood, 60/30/10 is a great place to start.


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## madhatte (May 3, 2012)

huskystihl said:


> Our shop stihl grinder only goes to 10.



Mine goes ALL THE WAY TO ELEVEN!


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## beelsr (May 4, 2012)

madhatte said:


> Mine goes ALL THE WAY TO ELEVEN!


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## tjcoogan (Jun 11, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> i do mostly square grinding ,but on my oregon round one on the 10 degree part ,when you do the other side of the chain do you have to loosten the allen bolts up and use the 10 degree on other side of the zero for the other side ? or just set at one 10 degree to left of the zero for both sides of the chain ?be easier if i had a pic to explain



The way I read it in the Oregon manual is when setting the down angle for the LH cutter loosen the knob under the vise plate then swing the vise to the right and tilt the base plate away from you or inwards toward the machine until the reference mark on the RH side of the vise arm matches the rear mark. Then match the "Down 10" marker on the RHS of the front angle plate to the desired cutting angle i.e. 30*. 

When you do the RH cutter loosen the knob under the vise plate then swing the vise to the left and tilt the base plate towards you you or outwards from the machine until the reference mark on the RH side of the vise arm matches the front mark. Then match the "Down 10" marker on the LHS of the front angle plate to the desired cutting angle i.e. 30*

The top sharpening angle i.e. 60* must also be adjusted to match the position of the "Down 10" reference mark on the underside of the arm motor unit. 

The Oregon manual is not all that clear so I hope this helps.


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## Grande Dog (Jun 12, 2013)

Howdy,
Here's something to knaw on. When you tilt the vise at any top plate angle above 0, you'll net a narrower kerf. The greater the top plate angle, the bigger the difference is in kerf from tilting the vise. So if you were to measure the net top plate angle after tilting the vise, it would be less. So in a perfect world, you set your vise to 30, 0 tilt, your chain top plate angle should be close to 30 degrees. With the same grinder, leaving the vise at 30, but now changing the tilt to 10, you're going to net a top plate angle of 25 degrees, or less.
I know I've said this before but, whether you're talking semi-chisel, or chisel, getting the top plate of the tooth completely on to the side of the grinding wheel will do a lot in your chains cutting performance. Doing this will leave a much more efficient straight edge rather than a rounded edge on the top plate.
Regards
Gregg


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