# Black walnut? If so best way to mill please..



## cjk (Dec 8, 2011)

I have this tree that was dead/dying the last few years and finally took it down today. Is this black walnut? I do not have a wood shop yet, so I am just milling it to use sometime in the future or giving to woodworkers that I know. So what is the best way to mill this tree? I am guessing 5/4 lumber as wide as I can get? Start milling with my Alaskan and just keep making boards or split the log in half with the alaskan and use my minimill to make boards out of the half log? The tree is about 24" at the base, 12' straight then branches out all over. Might be some cool looking wood in there, but I have never really milled a nice tree so I don't want to screw it up. 

The tree is down and I coated the end with a heavy coat of latex paint. Hope it dries with the cold weather. I should have it milled up and in the shed in a week or so. 

Any other tips are welcome.


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## mikeb1079 (Dec 8, 2011)

that's not black walnut. doesn't really look like butternut either, although i don't have as much experience with that. my first thought was some type of oak...


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## bigjohn1895 (Dec 8, 2011)

looks like white oak but the rings are allot farther apart then i usually see it i may be wrong but if it smells like pickles it is white oak 
if it is white oak the dark will disaper as it dries dont let that dicurage you mill it any way nice wood


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## Sawmill_Bill (Dec 9, 2011)

I would say it is Burr Oak, a member of the White Oak clan. The dark spot (blueish black) means that there is iron close by. It might be up or down the trunk from that spot. Use a metal detector to find the rest of the metal in the log.


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## Talltom (Dec 9, 2011)

Bark looks like chestnut oak (quercus prinus) but it's not listed as native to Wisconsin. More likely burr oak, which is native to Wisconsin and has similar, very rough bark. Definitely not white oak (quercus alba), but the lumber of chestnut and burr oak are in the white oak family. If it smells like buttered popcorn when cut, its in the white oak family.


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## Talltom (Dec 9, 2011)

Fresh oak is VERY reactive with metal. The stain could be from contact with a metal wedge or even your chain, if it was in contact for a little while. I get staining from my planer when running fresh oak through it, and the contact time is minimal. Still, better safe than sorry.

Consider quarter sawing that log if you have the capability. You'll get some really nice ray fleck from the center boards and riftsawn further out. 5/4 is good for unknown future use. Riftsawn is better at 8/4, since it's usually used for legs or other pieces where 2 faces are seen.


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## smokinj (Dec 9, 2011)

That could be walnut.....There is a lot of brown out there.


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## Dave Boyt (Dec 9, 2011)

*Check the inner bark*

Cut into the bark with a knife. If the inner bark is chocolate brown, then you've got walnut. Walnut also has chambered pith in the center, if you have any twigs. Do you have honey locust up your way? If it is walnut, quartersawing won't give you the kind of figured grain that sycamore and oak have. Sawing slabs would be a good option for walnut. I often do that with my band mill, then reassemble the log with stickers for air drying (European method). This keeps the boards in sequence for bookmatching. If you can find someone with a band mill, it will save you time & sawdust. The crotch wood might have some really pretty grain in it. Turn the "Y" of the crotch horizontal for milling. View attachment 210618


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## mikeb1079 (Dec 9, 2011)

you guys are missing the most obvious smell of burr/white oak: whiskey!

if you cut it and it smells like whiskey it's in the white oak family, after all that's what gives whiskey is taste and smell.


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## smokinj (Dec 9, 2011)

mikeb1079 said:


> you guys are missing the most obvious smell of burr/white oak: whiskey!
> 
> if you cut it and it smells like whiskey it's in the white oak family, after all that's what gives whiskey is taste and smell.



Pretty sure your right.....But I would be holding out for walnut too! lol


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## cjk (Dec 9, 2011)

Do other wood species react to metal by staining like oak does? If not then we know it is in the oak family.


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## Talltom (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm sure that some other woods react with metal but not sure about walnut. It's the tannic acid that reacts with iron and oak has plenty. I've gotten minor burns on my forearms from carrying fresh oak boards without shirtsleeves. They used to make ink by mixing metal and oak shavings in water. Is that a split in the end of the log or just a ridge? The stain seems to be at the start of that.

Definitely wouldn't want to quartersaw walnut. You will want to cut the crotch through & through regardless of the species, so do this first & it will make identification easier. Whiskey smells like oak because it's aged in new oak barrels. Same with some wines. Best way to tell what this is is to buy a good bottle of California chardonnay that has been barrel fermented, take a sip of the wine, then smell the wood. Repeat as necessary. By the end of the bottle you will either know if its oak or won't care.


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## WadePatton (Dec 9, 2011)

mikeb1079 said:


> you guys are missing the most obvious smell of burr/white oak: whiskey!
> 
> if you cut it and it smells like whiskey it's in the white oak family, after all that's what gives whiskey is taste and smell.



and walnut smells like...gunstocks! (the old fashioned ones.)


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## betterbuilt (Dec 9, 2011)

cjk said:


> Do other wood species react to metal by staining like oak does? If not then we know it is in the oak family.



I have Walnut out in the shop that has nails in it and it reacts just like oak. I'll get some pictures if I get a chance.


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## cjk (Dec 13, 2011)

Milled it up this weekend. 





P1020045 by toycowfarm, on Flickr


P1020046 by toycowfarm, on Flickr


P1020047 by toycowfarm, on Flickr

More pics here.Flickr: toycowfarm's Photostream


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## redoakneck (Dec 13, 2011)

Looks Nice. Man that does look like a light version of black walnut but could be oak.


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## betterbuilt (Dec 13, 2011)

That tree is a hard one for sure. The log looks like butternut or walnut. The wood sure looks like Oak, With a hint of Butternut. The wood doesn't look like Walnut at all. 

What does it smell like? 

here's a butternut I milled







Your tree has to be Oak. The more I look at the grain.


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## buzz sawyer (Dec 13, 2011)

Talltom said:


> I'm sure that some other woods react with metal but not sure about walnut. It's the tannic acid that reacts with iron and oak has plenty. I've gotten minor burns on my forearms from carrying fresh oak boards without shirtsleeves. They used to make ink by mixing metal and oak shavings in water. Is that a split in the end of the log or just a ridge? The stain seems to be at the start of that.
> 
> Definitely wouldn't want to quartersaw walnut. You will want to cut the crotch through & through regardless of the species, so do this first & it will make identification easier. Whiskey smells like oak because it's aged in new oak barrels. Same with some wines. Best way to tell what this is is to buy a good bottle of California chardonnay that has been barrel fermented, take a sip of the wine, then smell the wood. Repeat as necessary. By the end of the bottle you will either know if its oak or won't care.



Walnut reacts as does cherry, oak is probably the worst. That's one reason it makes good cutting boards. The acids kill bacterial naturally. Never lay fresh cut boards on your table saw for very long. 

Those milled shots look like Butternut or walnut to me. Can we get a good close up of the face and endgrain?


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## cjk (Dec 13, 2011)

I can't say exactly about the smell, it smells good, hard to describe. Here are some end views of the rounds on the firewood pile. Some of the sap wood is punky so the colors are not all the same. 



P1020056 by toycowfarm, on Flickr



P1020055 by toycowfarm, on Flickr



P1020054 by toycowfarm, on Flickr



P1020052 by toycowfarm, on Flickr


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## WadePatton (Dec 13, 2011)

walnut.

the dead give-a-way for me is the black staining from between the inner and outer bark.


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## betterbuilt (Dec 13, 2011)

That's gotta be the slowest growing walnut. Seriously I would be saying Oak after those end grain pics. The bark however is still unlike any oak I've ever seen. The inner bark looks just like White oak would have. 

Do you have any pictures of a quarter sawn board?


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## buzz sawyer (Dec 13, 2011)

betterbuilt said:


> That's gotta be the slowest growing walnut. Seriously I would be saying Oak after those end grain pics. The bark however is still unlike any oak I've ever seen. The inner bark looks just like White oak would have.
> 
> Do you have any pictures of a quarter sawn board?



I agree after seeing the endgrain. Never seen rays like that in walnut.


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## Dave Boyt (Dec 13, 2011)

*I think I've got it*

You say it smells good... sort of remind you of root beer? Real light weight wood? Fairly soft? Anybody get where I'm headed with this?


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## bigjohn1895 (Dec 13, 2011)

well after seeing the boards and some much needed sleep im going to say that is definetly not white oak 
but i will give you guys the list of woods that react to metal that i know of 
oak 
maple slowly and only some kinds 
cherry 
mulberry hard to see 
apple light color change 
i was once told that any hard wood will but i know some of them dont for sure 
i know there are more and if you know of them let me know


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## BuzzKut (Dec 13, 2011)

Do you have any leaves or branches with buds from the tree, even just check around the area for dead leaves on the ground? For me thats the only way to for sure id a tree.


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## Wagnerwerks (Dec 13, 2011)

Sure looks like a dead rock oak to me. I have cut literally hundreds of them for firewood. They darken like that as they "age" when they die. I live in Pa and our property is covered in them.


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## trimmmed (Dec 14, 2011)

betterbuilt said:


> That's gotta be the slowest growing walnut. Seriously I would be saying Oak after those end grain pics. The bark however is still unlike any oak I've ever seen. The inner bark looks just like White oak would have.
> 
> Do you have any pictures of a quarter sawn board?




Yes, the rays say it's not walnut. Oak, imo.


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## OhioGregg (Dec 14, 2011)

My guess in this contest would be Walnut.:biggrin: Were there any nuts on the ground? If there were old walnuts or acorns on the ground, would be a give away to the ID of the tree.


Gregg,


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## betterbuilt (Dec 14, 2011)

TraditionalTool said:


> [video=youtube;agcLlKcXp40]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agcLlKcXp40&feature=player_embedded[/video]



Now that's funny. Been there before. I looked at one a few weeks back that the guy thought was worth thousands. I ended up leaving. He'll still have the log next year and the year after. I'll ask again in the spring.


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## 1harlowr (Dec 14, 2011)

Dave Boyt said:


> You say it smells good... sort of remind you of root beer? Real light weight wood? Fairly soft? Anybody get where I'm headed with this?



I was thinking the same thing because of the bark. Sassafras. I don't ever remember cutting into a sassafras so I don't think I have any idea what the inside looks like. I've seen dried boards of sassafras and they aren't as dark as walnut, kinda brown like some hickory. Bark really looks like sassafras though


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## qbilder (Dec 14, 2011)

Oak all the way. The consistency of the growth rate combined with the rays just scream oak. The rays alone almost eliminate anything else except for beech, which this tree is not. Not sure which oak, but certainly an oak.


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## WadePatton (Dec 14, 2011)

Here's what i tell 'em wrt walnut: Yeah, _some_ walnut brings good money,_ yours_ probably won't.

back to the species id test: i don't know rock oak, but as an oak-it should have the smells we've kicked around already. the _un_walnuty thing i see is no checking. those firewood rounds should have nearly split themselves if walnut. 

i withdraw my conclusion until i can smell-test the dust. the nose knows.


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## Dave Boyt (Dec 14, 2011)

qbilder, you've got a point about the rays. I was thinking Sassafras because of the bright orange inner bark. I went out this morning and did a little cutting, and here's what I came up with. Burr Oak (in the white oak family) would be my guess. Great furniture wood. In fact, at one time, only furniture built from the wood of this tree was considered to be worth repairing. Hence the phrase "If it ain't Burr Oak..."
View attachment 211521
View attachment 211522
View attachment 211523


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## smokinj (Dec 14, 2011)

cjk said:


> Milled it up this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very nice!


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## betterbuilt (Dec 14, 2011)

Well here's a picture of the staining in this piece of walnut. 







Here's another picture of the same board. This one has a funny story to go with it. The lady I got the tree from assured me it didn't have any nails or hardware in it. Well I'm sawing the log and she proceeds to tell me stories about this tree. She says her daughter used to have a hammock in it. I said great! Then she assured me she took it out. She no longer walked in the house and I hit the very edge of that Eyebolt. Some how that log was just perfect to bury the eybolt in the 2inch slab. The only reason the log was that way was because I hired a rollback to move the log. Well he thought he could just lift it on the truck with a skidsteer. Well something happened and a weld on the bucket broke and he cut his losses and said he wouldn't move the log. I didn't see the damage to the bucket But, I was told it was pretty good. Anyhow he moved it and that was the only reason I didn't hit that eye bolt dead on. 






There is no staining because of the plating or maybe the sapwood doesn't cause the staining.


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## smokinj (Dec 14, 2011)

betterbuilt said:


> Well here's a picture of the staining in this piece of walnut.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I always find a nail when they say there is none.........That looks like bw to me.


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## brisawyer (Dec 14, 2011)

Its chestnut or burr oak. Look at the rays in the firewood walnut dosent have those rays. Wrong color for sasafrass. I think whats throwing everyone is chestnut oak is very dark as far as white oaks go. Go flip thru your lumber stack look at the boards you sawed near the pith you will have ray fleck in them like the old tiger oak furniture or regular quartersawn oak.


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## brisawyer (Dec 14, 2011)

Sasafrass 
http://www.arboristsite.com/attachm...-burning-equipment/106617d1250622590-log1-jpg


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## betterbuilt (Dec 14, 2011)

Here's your pic






Here's a link to sassafras pictures.
Exotic Wood sassafras

Here's a link to white oak pictures.
Exotic Wood oak, white


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## discounthunter (Dec 14, 2011)

chestnut oak. any way to get some leaves from around the base of the tree?


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## Talltom (Dec 15, 2011)

It bark and grain certainly look like it could be sassafras but that's not native to Wisconsin. Based on the fact that sassafras is an understory tree that seldom gets very large, the odds of finding a large specimen outside it's native range are low. My guess is back to burr oak. Leaves of both burr oak and sassafras are very distinctive and would help i.d. the tree. 

Whatever it is, the plain sawn surface looks great, so just keep cutting it that way. If you cut it through and through and get ray fleck on the center boards, it's probably oak.

If you still can't identify the wood and really want to know, the International Wood Collectors Society probably has a member near you.


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## cjk (Dec 15, 2011)

discounthunter said:


> chestnut oak. any way to get some leaves from around the base of the tree?



No, this tree never had any leaves this year. That would help a lot though.


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## WadePatton (Dec 15, 2011)

aroma, smell, odor, nose--whatever you want to call it. i promise you dozens and dozens of folks 'round here can identify the wood with a sniff of fresh dust. i'm one. 

as wondrous as forums and visuals are, there's no substitute for the olfactory sense--even at the limited human level of smell.

imina say it one more time. if it smells like red wine (cabernet-not mogen david) OR TN/KY whiskey then it _is_ Oak. 

surely to hell somebody has a bottle of jack you can sniff/compare. i personally don't care for oaked whiskeys.

Sass is more citrus-like and similar to Black Locust, but less cat-pissy. 

Walnut, well eff that, i'm the only one who ever thought that, and that smell is much harder to describe to someone who hasn't worked known walnut before--like a 1972 Remington 700 stock...Cherry smells like Maybelline, toasted Persimmon smells like vanilla and sugar...

THIS is part of my BBQ making process-- _knowing_ the aroma of the woods i'm cooking with.


cheers and *get to sniffing*--_find something_ that the dust smells like without clogging your sinuses then report that back here.


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## smokinj (Dec 16, 2011)

WadePatton said:


> aroma, smell, odor, nose--whatever you want to call it. i promise you dozens and dozens of folks 'round here can identify the wood with a sniff of fresh dust. i'm one.
> 
> as wondrous as forums and visuals are, there's no substitute for the olfactory sense--even at the limited human level of smell.
> 
> ...



After working with wood for many years I do not smell a thing.......Now people around me will smell a strong oder. Some even love the smoke smell. Cant smell it anymore either.


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2011)

WadePatton said:


> aroma, smell, odor, nose--whatever you want to call it. i promise you dozens and dozens of folks 'round here can identify the wood with a sniff of fresh dust. i'm one.
> 
> as wondrous as forums and visuals are, there's no substitute for the olfactory sense--even at the limited human level of smell.
> 
> ...



Walnut is in the olive family and fresh cut Walnut smells like Olives!Oak smells like aged cheese or Horse poop.And BTW OP that is Chestnut Oak no doubt!


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## WadePatton (Dec 16, 2011)

aged cheese eh?

yeah, thassright he's up _there_(cheeseheadville). ...maybe bourbon whiskey isn't exported that far. 

let's develop an odor-wheel tree identification system.


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## gemniii (Dec 16, 2011)

WadePatton said:


> aged cheese eh?
> 
> yeah, thassright he's up _there_(cheeseheadville). ...maybe bourbon whiskey isn't exported that far.
> 
> let's develop an odor-wheel tree identification system.


All I need is a scratch n' sniff field guide to trees!


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## betterbuilt (Dec 16, 2011)

gemniii said:


> All I need is a scratch n' sniff field guide to trees!



Especially with so many woods smelling like Urine. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## cjk (Dec 16, 2011)

The smell to me reminds me of a load of new pallets. I don't know if any of you have ever built or worked with new pallets, but when we get a new load at work I can smell it as I walk in the place. That may not help much as I don't know what they are made of, some type or hardwood, but I also used to build timber frames and we used oak beams a lot. I didn't notice the smell much until it warmed up some but then the smell reminded my of pallets and timber framing. The smell doesn't seem as strong as when sawing other trees. 

I agree with the posters saying oak. The rays, the grain, the smell. The color is what confused me right away as I haven't seen oak this dark. 

Whatever it is, it is stacked and drying in the shed. Thanks for all the info and opinions guys. Tomorrow I will be dropping a few more smaller trees that I believe are oaks, but different than this one, so I will study and try to ID them before I post pics for you guys.


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## Dave Boyt (Dec 16, 2011)

*Great minds link alike...*

Betterbuilt, thanks for the link to the wood ID. Those will come in handy for me.


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2011)

WadePatton said:


> aged cheese eh?
> 
> yeah, thassright he's up _there_(cheeseheadville). ...maybe bourbon whiskey isn't exported that far.
> 
> let's develop an odor-wheel tree identification system.



Alright yup lets.


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## betterbuilt (Dec 16, 2011)

Dave Boyt said:


> Betterbuilt, thanks for the link to the wood ID. Those will come in handy for me.



No problem.


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