# Stihl discontinued ms441 c-m?



## Rhyno430 (May 29, 2015)

Hey guys short time lurker here lots of knowledge. Anyways went to order a saw today before I quit my current job. Anyways wanted to get a MS 441 c-m with a wrap handle. Dealer didn't have one in Stock, so he called their distributor and they told him all ms 441 's have been discontinued and that they recommend selling the 461s 

Luckily they had a 441 in Stock just not a wrap handle. 

Anyways this is kind of a question and kind of a warning.


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## weimedog (May 29, 2015)

Is this really true? I liked the one I had time to run. I guess it would make sense as it is different in so many ways than the other Stihl saws.... and its filtration was almost... Jonsered like is function. CAN"T have that! Less need for filter replacement! Maybe 441 fans will be lucky and an pacific rim outfit will buy the rights to (re) produce those!


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## chris zautner (May 29, 2015)

i just called my dealer because my 441 cm was giving me problems and i got it fixed and i wanted to let them know its running great now and i asked him whats going on with the 441cm and he said they ran out of the saws in there warehouse for two months and they are going to start to make them again


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## spindrift7mm (May 29, 2015)

461 is twice the saw with 1/3 less parts and problems as a work saw. Ken


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## Rhyno430 (May 29, 2015)

I wanted something with m tronic, otherwise I would have gotten a 461. And luckily I got 1 of 2 the dealer had.


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## Ron660 (May 29, 2015)

Rhyno430 said:


> I wanted something with m tronic, otherwise I would have gotten a 461. And luckily I got 1 of 2 the dealer had.


 Get the 461 and cut off the inside baffle. You'll thank me later.


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## dolmarkid (May 31, 2015)

or get a 660 or 661 and have it ported


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## Ron660 (Jun 1, 2015)

dolmarkid said:


> or get a 660 or 661 and have it ported


I have a ported 660. Tons of torque but noticeably heavier than a 461.


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## VinceGU05 (Jun 1, 2015)

yeah my dealer said the same. 441cm once sold out thats it. next will be the 381. then release the 462? some time next year. just thinning out their 70cc pro range.


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## wyk (Jun 1, 2015)

spindrift7mm said:


> 461 is twice the saw with 1/3 less parts and problems as a work saw. Ken



And the same weight...


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## VinceGU05 (Jun 1, 2015)

Edit.. Wrong thread.


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## blsnelling (Jun 1, 2015)

There's a known supply issue with the 441. I've heard nothing of it being discontinued.


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## the GOAT (Jun 1, 2015)

I asked my dealer about the 441. He told me I should just get a ported ms362c-m.


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## Cope1024 (Jun 1, 2015)

the GOAT said:


> I asked my dealer about the 441. He told me I should just get a ported ms362c-m.



He's correct, the MS362 C is the most awesome-est saw ever made. Also, it is filled with awesomeness.


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## weimedog (Jun 1, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> There's a known supply issue with the 441. I've heard nothing of it being discontinued.


 
A good thing, 441's have some nice features... The two I ran were really nice & smooth saws .. stock. Actually three, had one at one of our GTG's a few years back when they first came out. The guy who owned it used it to take down a large hedge row ash tree, I had a chance to run it for a bit was impressed with it then as an all around saw. The guy was a college prof and used it for milling to. Don't know have that worked out over time. Lost contact.

I wonder if the ebb and flow of the 441's will hurt it both in future product plans and in after market support down the road...


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## VinceGU05 (Jun 1, 2015)

checked again this morning.. dealer has no 441cm in stock.. the winter flyer has every pro saw but the 441cm.


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## sunfish (Jun 1, 2015)

I've never even seen a 441 around here, Is it an awesome saw or what?


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## gunnusmc03 (Jun 1, 2015)

I like mine


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## SAWMIKAZE (Jun 1, 2015)

sunfish said:


> I've never even seen a 441 around here, Is it an awesome saw or what?



Its no 362 c-m.


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## 67L36Driver (Jun 1, 2015)

sunfish said:


> I've never even seen a 441 around here, Is it an awesome saw or what?



You could have one (used some, LOL) delivered to your door.

Personally, I can't see why all the fuss as I have both a MS440 and a MS441. The 441 seems heavier and the handle cover/presence lever tends to fly off unannounced.

But, I don't cut wood, burn wood, just rebuild old saws................................


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## MustangMike (Jun 1, 2015)

Don, the 441 C has M-Tronic, Spring AV, and the tech to keep the filter clean longer. The 461 lacks those features, but is the same wt and stronger (more ccs).

Many like the traditional features of the 461, others like the smoothness of the 441 (I think it is one of Randy's favorite saws).

The 441 also added some girth over the 440, which drew a lot of critics.

My non M-Tronic 441 cut just like my 044 (when it was bone stock). The M-Tronic versions are generally considered to run a little stronger.

The 441 is more like a Caddy, the 461 is more like a Vette, like everything else, depends on what you want from your equipment.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Jun 2, 2015)

If you tune your saws well i personally think mtrons have really no advantage other than they keep guys who dont know what their doin from cookin their saws.

Guys ive met that are shocked of how well their mtronic saw runs are the same guys who had no clue how to tune their saw to run to its potential , prior their saws were too lean or pig rich so naturally they were impressed with how mtrons ran.

I like the updates on some models but wish their were standard carbys on em'.

I never get what i want .. not even new teef


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## brockhaskins (Jun 2, 2015)

I love my 461. I did cut with a 441 once and it was smooth but I like 461 better. I'm not convinced m-tronic is the greatest thing either but I've never ran one. I just feel comfortable be able to tune my stuff my self


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## MustangMike (Jun 2, 2015)

Ryan, if I'm not mistakin, you were one of the ones who posted the M-Tronic 441 was a little stronger than the non M-Tronic one. Perhaps that changes if you remove the limiters, etc.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Jun 2, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Ryan, if I'm not mistakin, you were one of the ones who posted the M-Tronic 441 was a little stronger than the non M-Tronic one. Perhaps that changes if you remove the limiters, etc.



No wasnt me ..or what i said wasnt interpreted correctly , mtrons have their advantages no doubt but i dont see any power difference from a saw thats tuned correctly...AS blows some things out of proportion , ive spent the last few years learnin from guys with 30+ years under their belt in the game and when i make mention of what i read on here with certain things ..they laugh , i dont care what people like or use..im not the one usin it.


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## MustangMike (Jun 2, 2015)

Memory is the 2nd thing to go: Wasn't me, didn't say it ...

From 4/20/14:

"The m tronic runs better..but its not quite as big as some make it..but then again 2 seconds is huge to some people..to me its not..i like the new technology for other reasons than speed of cut , such as leak detection."


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## SAWMIKAZE (Jun 2, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Memory is the 2nd thing to go: Wasn't me, didn't say it ...
> 
> From 4/20/14:
> 
> "The m tronic runs better..but its not quite as big as some make it..but then again 2 seconds is huge to some people..to me its not..i like the new technology for other reasons than speed of cut , such as leak detection."



Like i said mike a second or 2 , and yes on a saw out of the box it absolutely does run better , but not if you know how to tune them .. i had a 361 that had the limiters on it still and the screws had never been touched..it was pitiful


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## MustangMike (Jun 2, 2015)

Ryan, my non M-Tronic saws run just fine, I know how to tune them.

But I don't believe that you, or anyone else can start cutting in the morning at say 42 degrees, in soft poplar, and continue into the afternoon at over 80 degrees, in some hard Shag Bark Hickory, and keep the saw perfectly tuned for the conditions all day long. Likely, the tune you settle on is a bit of a compromise.

You may be selling it, but I'm not buying it. Some people may prefer not to have it, but M-Tronic and Auto Tune have their advantages. I'd be happy not to have to carry the little screw driver around.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Jun 2, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Ryan, my non M-Tronic saws run just fine, I know how to tune them.
> 
> But I don't believe that you, or anyone else can start cutting in the morning at say 42 degrees, in soft poplar, and continue into the afternoon at over 80 degrees, in some hard Shag Bark Hickory, and keep the saw perfectly tuned for the conditions all day long. Likely, the tune you settle on is a bit of a compromise.
> 
> You may be selling it, but I'm not buying it. Some people may prefer not to have it, but M-Tronic and Auto Tune have their advantages. I'd be happy not to have to carry the little screw driver around.



Im not selling anything mike i dont care what you like , saws are a hobby for you , i like the way they run but its not a necessity to me , my coil **** itself on my 362 and my 241 started actin retarded last monday , reliability wins when you have to make money with them..im not a good saw mechanic by any means im average on my best day.. i want them to start and run , thats it ..


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## MustangMike (Jun 2, 2015)

Sorry you are having troubles with them, hope it works out, but I don't think a bad coil has anything to do with it being M-Tronic.

Had to do the re set procedure on my 362 after I got it back from being ported, I think because Randy runs 32 to 1 and I run 40 to 1.

Anyway, it ran flawlessly before that, and has been flawless since then, an I run it more than the others.

I'll agree that reliability is an important factor. When you want to use them, you want to use them! Best of luck resolving your issues.


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## Scott Kelly (Jun 2, 2015)

67L36Driver said:


> You could have one (used some, LOL) delivered to your door.
> 
> Personally, I can't see why all the fuss as I have both a MS440 and a MS441. The 441 seems heavier and the handle cover/presence lever tends to fly off unannounced.
> 
> But, I don't cut wood, burn wood, just rebuild old saws................................


You better not be selling my 441...


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## 67L36Driver (Jun 2, 2015)

Scott Kelly said:


> You better not be selling my 441...



First peckerwood with cash in fist on my doorstep gets it!


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## mdavlee (Jun 2, 2015)

I'm happy with the little screw drivers. The mtronic don't run rich enough to me for milling some. A 661 non mtronic would be sweet.


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## Hayden (Dec 16, 2015)

Stihl Australia stopped importing / stocking MS441 saws in March 2015 with the normal procedure of not telling anyone so the model can be cleared from retailers.
Why? The MS461 has an excellent reputation, more power, same weight and was almost the same price, so simply hardly anyone brought the MS441's in Australia. Stihl AU has kept the old Brizilan made MS381 model in it's product line to fill the MS441 gap.
I've noticed that the MS441 has disappeared from the major Stihl dealer websites in the USA and you just would not do that if the saw is just out of stock. 
Personally I'm expecting a completely new model to replace MS381/MS441 and possibly MS461 at the start of next year, there is a picture of it on another forum.


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## MustangMike (Dec 16, 2015)

In another thread, there are new 261 & 362 models, lighter & more power. I can not imagine they reworked them and not the 441.

US dealers were just told there was a "production delay" with the 441. When I heard that, I thought something was up.

The new 261 & 362s are being made in the US, but I thing 441 production is still in Germany.


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## cary911 (Dec 16, 2015)




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## RLfailuer (Jun 1, 2016)

441 is not showing up on the stihl webpage.


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## Stihlman441 (Jun 1, 2016)

One of my most used saw the 441CM R


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## Rockjock (Jun 1, 2016)

The MS441 is in stock here in Ontario. Much like the 661 gents I can facilitate getting you the saw if you wish.  stock shows 100+ in pretty much all bar lengths.


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## nitehawk55 (Jun 1, 2016)

I talked to my contact in the Tech Dept. a few weeks ago and no issues getting the 441 and no changes or a replacement on the radar either but there is supposed to be a 462 CM in the works .


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## SawTroll (Jun 1, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> There's a known supply issue with the 441. I've heard nothing of it being discontinued.



It was missing on the Stihl website in the US the last time I checked up on this rumor. It was still listed on every other market I looked up though, so I assume there just is a temporary shortage in the US.


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## SawTroll (Jun 1, 2016)

nitehawk55 said:


> I talked to my contact in the Tech Dept. a few weeks ago and no issues getting the 441 and no changes or a replacement on the radar either but there is supposed to be a 462 CM in the works .



I have read rumors of a 462 elsewhere as well.


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## MRT (Jun 1, 2016)

It's on the stihl site, but not in the current products: http://www.stihlusa.com/products/ms-441-discontinued/


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## anymanusa (Feb 4, 2017)

I absolutely love my 441cm. I've only had it for about 6 years if I had to guess, but it's perfect for me. A 362cm would suffice for my needs, but I err to the strong side.

I hope this model isn't discontinued.


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## NHLogger151 (Apr 20, 2017)

Rhyno430 said:


> Hey guys short time lurker here lots of knowledge. Anyways went to order a saw today before I quit my current job. Anyways wanted to get a MS 441 c-m with a wrap handle. Dealer didn't have one in Stock, so he called their distributor and they told him all ms 441 's have been discontinued and that they recommend selling the 461s
> 
> Luckily they had a 441 in Stock just not a wrap handle.
> 
> Anyways this is kind of a question and kind of a warning.



Just an update here from a new member, local Stihl dealer told me that yes the MS441 has been discontinued all together. Apparently there was an electrical issue that they could not figure out so they decided to pull the saw off the market all together. Not sure of what will replace it and when but i cant imagine Stihl not 
having a 70cc saw for too long. So glad I decided to opt down to the 362 instead.


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## Stihlman441 (Apr 20, 2017)

That's a shame
I have spent many many hrs using the 441 and will continue to do so


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## Rockjock (Apr 20, 2017)

NHLogger151 said:


> Just an update here from a new member, local Stihl dealer told me that yes the MS441 has been discontinued all together. Apparently there was an electrical issue that they could not figure out so they decided to pull the saw off the market all together. Not sure of what will replace it and when but i cant imagine Stihl not
> having a 70cc saw for too long. So glad I decided to opt down to the 362 instead.




I Think you need to find a new dealer. Not only is this saw still current, and still for sale.. there are over 2,000 of said saws in inventory. ( In Canada at least ) and no such electrical issue exists. I am sure my US cousins can confirm this...


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## MustangMike (Apr 20, 2017)

To my knowledge the 441 is no longer available in the US, and the rumored replacement is the 462, which is featured in the current calendar but is not yet available. I do not have information regarding what led to the demise of the 441. Local shops have been told they can discount 461 pricing to make up for the fact that the 441 is not in the line up.

Sources say the 462 will be 73 cc (mid way between the 441 & 461), will have 6 Hp (same as a 461) but will weight less than 14 lbs (not only is that less than the 441 & 461, but also less than a 440). We will see if it materializes.


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## ktoom (Apr 21, 2017)

My local dealer also said that the 441 is no longer offered.... he also mentioned that he has thrown quite a few 441's in the dumpster . Whats wrong with him??? Doesnt he know that I would take them???


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## GCJenks204 (Apr 21, 2017)

Available in Canada but not the USA. What's different? Can you say EPA...


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## Rockjock (Apr 21, 2017)

GCJenks204 said:


> Available in Canada but not the USA. What's different? Can you say EPA...



Same saws my friend. Looking at the IPL you can see they are one and the same. We went through this a while back, then the US dealers got stock again. When a dealer says they are not available because of electrical issues and that can not be verified that in itself casts doubts on the dealers credibility. Then when a dealer says they are no more to be had and they just tossed many in the bin.. well creditability shot again. During the last time we were told the 441 was no longer I had about a dozen friends from across the border visit me for this saw. Oddly after the miraculous resurrection of the 441 ( I believe I had posted a pic of a date of manufacture of this saw as well) I was no longer asked for this saw. Contacting a dealer in Troy I was assured that there was stock in the warehouse. Now it would be more believable if one was to say the 441 is being replaced by another saw. This saw has yet to be " put out there " So if anyone needs a 441...


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## cedarhollow (Apr 21, 2017)

where is that dumpster at. I'm on the way there. The dealer I spoke to today told me that when there is a 1 or 2 at the end of a model number it is a revised model to meet EPA rules and I'm better off with a low use older machine. regardless the 044/440 and 361 were two of the best saws ever built weren't they?


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## NHLogger151 (Apr 21, 2017)

cedarhollow said:


> where is that dumpster at. I'm on the way there. The dealer I spoke to today told me that when there is a 1 or 2 at the end of a model number it is a revised model to meet EPA rules and I'm better off with a low use older machine. regardless the 044/440 and 361 were two of the best saws ever built weren't they?


Definetly agree with you on how great the 044 saw is. Love that saw. Purchased a ms362 3 years ago and although its a great saw, i always find myself having to clean out the bar before i even get a full tank of gas through her. The oiler is crap. Turned all the way up and im not even going through half a tank of oil to a full tank of gas.


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## MustangMike (Apr 22, 2017)

Never had that problem with me 362-C. Check that everything is lined up and nothing is obstructed. I also have my oiler turned all the way up.


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## rmh3481 (Apr 22, 2017)

This is what I heard - The problem is with the electronics. We all know that heat effects electronics. As time passes, more of these issues come to light. 

Replacing the parts is straightforward, they are fairly inexpensive. The module system would need to be replaced because the problem is inside. This would require a recall. After all, emissions are involved and the EPA isnt going to look the other way. 

The 441 was not as popular, any where near as popular, as the MS 440. Stihl looked at the marketplace and studied how Husky handled their '562' issue. Stihl wanted to retain the brand loyalty that Husky lost. There are whole demographics that were turned off by the 562. Not just the equipment failure, but the fact that every time there is a problem, the owner is forced to return to the dealer and wait. Return to the dealer and wait... 

Husky dealers will say - this is old news, all those problems have been fixed. We have the best saw. 

I read alot of Echo reviews where new owners say "I was a loyal Husky fan, so was my Dad and my Grand Dad". We went to Echo because of Husky service issues...

Stihl is working very hard to avoid this and they are number one for a reason. Stihl wants to continue their corner store tradition of excellence and this means that they would rather introduce a new model, than putz with the old. Makes sense. Fix the 441 for current owners who like it, but introduce something new, something better.


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## ihookem (Jan 30, 2022)

As for me, I think my 441 is finicky. I have already had problems with it. I think the piston hit the spark plug and the gap in the plug was tight. I am not sure what happened. I loaned it to a guy at work and it came back not working. I took it in and was fived for 73 bucks. It ran real good . Last weekI try to start it and wont start. For the first time ever , I drained all the gas out of the carb cause I knew it would be a while before using it again. I never ever had a problem leaving gas in the tank or carb with any saw, or outboard. I wonder if there was just a bit of gas in the carb that didnt burn and went bad. I have always thought that gas lasts a long time if it does not get air. My Honda generator never runs out of gas and has always started in 17 yrs. even when it sits for months with regular ethonal gas. As for me, I will get a new plug and new non ethanol gas and try it again. I don't know how to tune a carb. I never had to with my 034 and had it 30 yrs next month. It always starts , not finicky and had 1 problem in 30 yrs. I wish I would have just went with the 460 12 yrs. ago for a lousy 40 buck more I could have a 460. When the 441 gets going though it is a good saw. My brother bought a 400 a month ago and it does not seem to be as much as the 441. Tis may come as a surprise that I dont tune my saws. I never had to though. I do almost all my cutting in the cold and never when its hot. Hot weather is for catfishing not cutting wood. It does seem to be running very rich however.


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## MustangMike (Jan 30, 2022)

First, you need to know if your 441 is computer controlled or has an adjustable carb. They made them both ways. Look on your recoil. If it says MS-441 you have an adjustable carb. If it says MS-441C it has a computer, and you should never have to adjust it.

Secondly, if a saw does not run right after you loaned it out, I would not blame the saw.

Third, the 400 is a good saw, but it is not the replacement for the 441. A 462 is the same cc-s and is lighter and will outrun the 441. In addition, you can get the model with the computer (462C) and you will never have to tune it.

460s are good saws, but they all had adjustable carbs.

As they made saws more emissions compliant, the range they would operate w/o adjustment narrowed.


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## ihookem (Jan 30, 2022)

Mustang Mike. I did loan the saw out and it did come back not being able to run. ( Side note) why is that so common when you loan something , it does not come back quite right?) Anyway, when I took the saw back from a friend?? Anyway, the plug had NO gap. I regap , after 5 minutes the plug pulls out, then again, then I take it in andfor 73 bucks they do a Heli coil??. Ran great , out 73 bucks but I got may baby back!! And it rips!!. Now I cant get it started at all today, New gas, non ethanol, new plug and barely a pop. I putting it in the basement to warm up a day . I did put some carb cleaner down the intake. Hope I didnt do more harm than good. I did take the plug out and pull it a bunch of times and could see dropplets flying out . Still dont run and might take it in. It seems it has no spark and cant see any spark , however, sometime I just cant see a spark in the daytime. I will get back here when I get it fixed. . WHo knows, I have the plug out now and it might just be too full of carb cleaner.n I was also tempted today when I saw a Stihl 462 on the shelf. I got less tempted when I saw the price tag of $1,260. Guess I will just get the 441 fixed. Also, I have an old 034. In March it will be 30 yrs old. After 3 months, I gave it 5 pulls and it starts. I dont know why , but i can let that thing sit for 3 or 4 months , never take out the gas , cant remember the last time I even changed a plug but it always starts. WHY? Are the old carbs that much less fussy?


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## ihookem (Jan 31, 2022)

Well , the strangest thing happened with my 441. It has the adjustable carbs so it is not the computerized carb. I was going to take it in to the shop this morning , but thought , what the heck, give it a few pulls. It popped on the first pull and a few more pulls and it ran just like always. At first I was using gas that was 2 1/2 months old. I thought it would be just fine. It did run with it but shut off at idle and was hard to start. It was either I got fresh gas , I sprayed some carb cleaner down the carb and let it sit over night. It had to be one of the two cause now I got my baby back and runs great. Sometimes I think chainsaws are like women, they know when you are looking at other women and was thinking of just getting a 362. They arey are about $852 plus tax here though and the 462 is about $1250+ tax. It did throw out a bunch of black soot too. I never saw that before.


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## anymanusa (Feb 1, 2022)

MustangMike said:


> First, you need to know if your 441 is computer controlled or has an adjustable carb. They made them both ways. Look on your recoil. If it says MS-441 you have an adjustable carb. If it says MS-441C it has a computer, and you should never have to adjust it.
> 
> Secondly, if a saw does not run right after you loaned it out, I would not blame the saw.
> 
> ...


Why do you say the 462 will "outrun" the 441? The comments that I've read say that the 462 has less torque and can't pull a big bar as well as the 441.

That said, my 441 has been an absolute dream of a chainsaw. I bought one of the very first ones ever available in the US. I've seen them not available in this country for a long while too. It's a C.

Here it is just a few days ago running a very long bar through a very old large white oak.


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## ihookem (Feb 1, 2022)

I'm surprised a 441 will outrun a 462. Glad to know if it is true cause I was thinking of getting a 462 to put the long bar on it and use the 441 with a 16 or 20" bar to rip through the smaller logs. I have put the 16" bar on the 441 and it goes like crazy. I think a long bar slows it down a bit.. However, I could also just same some money and put a smaller bar on a new 362. My 034 seems to be tired . Has a lot of compression but I think the clutch is slipping or something. It does stop once in a while if I give it too much. How often, if ever do the clutches go out?


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