# white oak dropped acorns too early



## abaction (Jul 6, 2010)

I have a white oak about 50 years old. It has produced acorns for at least the last 13 years. It has had a bracket fungus forming in one spot at the very base for many years. I keep breaking it off every few years. Aside from a moderate amount of dead wood, the tree looks otherwise very healthy.

Just recently (here we are in early July), I found thousands of immature acorns on the ground. They were about the size of a pea or smaller and they were mostly brown, not green. I can recall seeing a few of these in years past, but never this many. It did seem as if it produced fewer acorns last season.

Is this normal or is it a sign of a problem?

Any input appreciated.


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 6, 2010)

post some pics


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## S Mc (Jul 7, 2010)

Abaction, please post pictures. And hopefully this oak is not in an area with a target if it fails.

Include in your pictures the bracket fungus. There are wood decay organisms that will cause root rot or basal decay that can result in structural failure without the tree showing excessive signs in the crown. Removing the fruiting body does not stop the internal decay of the organism.

Sylvia


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## abaction (Jul 7, 2010)

*update - photos*

Oaky doke. Here's some photos. You will see that one side of the tree was butchered by the utility company a few years ago. There is one example of the sucker growth as a result. I pulled the mulch away to expose the fungus and you'll see that I found alot of ants. The mulch was just put there 4 days ago. I also included the last chunk of fungus I had broken off last fall. (No, it's not sitting in my living room. That's just a piece of carpet)


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## buzz sawyer (Jul 7, 2010)

I believe you're correct TreeCo. A Northern Red Oak by my driveway dropped a lot of immature acorns over the last couple days. We did have a very wet Spring and now it's really hot.


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## treeseer (Jul 7, 2010)

Conk looks like Inonotus which is a bad actor/rootrotter so best to keep an eye on it. Only in that one crevice do you see the conks? Call an arborist--Ohio has bunches of good ones.

Yes remove and bury them (the conks not the aerborists); it may not (or may) slow the rot, but it certainly will remove millions if not billions of spores from infecting other trees.

May be time to reduce the crown a bit for stability. the utility pruning is heightening the imbalance toward your abode.


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## abaction (Jul 8, 2010)

Yeah, the fungus is only found in the one spot, but it has been there since I bought the house in 1996. At that time, I broke off a large "conk" roughly 8"x12". 

I had not considered that the weight distribution does lean toward my house, but fortunately, it is far enough away that only the very top might reach it.

It looks like a couple of you are saying that the immature acorn drop is probably normal. It was a dry, but warm early spring, a very wet and very warm late spring, and now it is very hot and dry. However, this happened when the heat and lack of rain was only beginning.

I recently had a tree crew trim another tree in my yard. They looked at the oak and recommended trimming out the dead wood in the fall, but regarding the fungus they didn't know what it was and said the tree looked healthy.


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## S Mc (Jul 8, 2010)

Abaction, perhaps a change in tree services would be in order. 

Whereas removal of the conk does remove spores that may cause infection elsewhere, it does not slow the disease within the tree (Luley).

I agree with Treeseer, at the very least, put this tree on a "watch" and get it reduced to ensure it can't hit any targets. Many sources say that the first sign of root rot or basal decay can be the tree failing. It may look "perfectly healthy" otherwise. You have noted that it has had "moderate amounts" of deadwood.

Sylvia


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## abaction (Jul 8, 2010)

Many thanks for the feedback. I wasn't too confident in the opinion of the tree service guys. They just happened to be removing a tree next door (where they broke a window and made my neighbor unhappy) and I asked for a price to trim one of my trees while they were cleaning up the broken glass. I know that accidents happen. They were friendly enough and did an adequate job, but they didn't come across as "experts".

I will watch it very carefully and maybe try to find an arborist. I have no idea where to find one, but a google search should point me in the right direction. 

Sylvia - it sounds like you are recommending that I "top" the tree. You only said "reduce", but I'm thinking that in this case, it might be reasonable to do that. I've been told that "topping" is a bad idea, but if it helps to limit this tree's target zone... well?


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## S Mc (Jul 8, 2010)

Both Treeseer and I used the term "reduce" and that is what we mean. The difference between topping and reduction is generally held to be one without any rhyme nor reason to one giving care and consideration to target pruning. Reducing a tree's height is sometimes necessary and acceptable. Often times a proper reduction can be performed without being discernible to the untrained eye, whereas a topping job stands out with inappropriate regrowth, further compromising a tree's wellfare and health and can be an eyesore for a long time as well.

I need Buzz's expertise in photo duplication here, but if you look at your first photo, Abaction, you will see a secondary crown below the existing one. If on site, we would be walking around the tree to see if this is an appropriate level for reduction.

A skilled and experienced aborist onsite will be able to advise on how much and where a reduction can be done. You can go to isa-arbor.com to find an arborist in your community. Perhaps Treeseer has some names of reputable ones in your area as well.

Good luck.

Sylvia


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## buzz sawyer (Jul 8, 2010)

Sylvia, do you mean these?


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## S Mc (Jul 8, 2010)

Treeco, And that is the reason why I advised an onsite arborist, so some informed determination could be made. If there are no targets, the decay is isolated and the homeowner is willing to accept the risk, then perhaps nothing does need to be done at this time. 

Reduction would lessen the leverage factor and so is a viable option to offer. Not a given...just an option. Why on Earth does suggesting reduction make it "snake oil"? Snake oil is a product with no value. It has been proven that reducing the canopy overall reduces the wind sail. 

When someone comes on and asks a question, and in the course of that question mentions something else that should have been a red flag for every knowledgeable arborist out there, we should point it out. That is why I asked for photos about the fungus even though the question was about acorns. 

Very similar to walking onto a property when the client wants you to look at one tree, but you notice another tree has a major issue. Do you walk away without saying anything because they didn't ask about that tree? Or do you point out the potential problem. 

Sylvia


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## S Mc (Jul 8, 2010)

Hey Buzz, yeah. The white arrow on the left is at the level of a "secondary" crown. Well down from the primary crown (white arrow on right).

An onsite arborist would have to make the determination just how much, if any, could be taken off this tree as we are only seeing one side of it. We know the wires are on the far side, and so this tree could already be somewhat two dimensional. 

Other factors to take into consideration are the position of the fungus to determine what root(s) are affected relative to the lean of the tree, prevailing wind direction, etc. The homeowner's house is on this side of the tree and he said it would "just" hit. So a reduction, if warranted, may not have to come all the way down to the secondary crown.

Sylvia.


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## abaction (Jul 8, 2010)

To clarify...

The fungus is on the side of the tree with the wires, which is N-NE. So, if there is root rot going on, it is opposite the heavier side. I don't know what the prevailing winds are, but most of our weather comes from the west. I assume that means the prevailing winds are also from the west. My house is S-SW of the tree.

Anyway, all feedback is appreciated.


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## treeseer (Jul 9, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> But it's not proven that this tree needs wind sail reduction!.


True, but an old Inonotus infection indicates strength loss. If I knew where in ohio i might advise someone to assess it. I agree with Sylvia on the rest.


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## abaction (Jul 9, 2010)

treeseer said:


> If I knew where in ohio i might advise someone to assess it. I agree with Sylvia on the rest.



West Central Ohio. North of Dayton.


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## treeseer (Jul 10, 2010)

no question i agree about the danger in overprescribing reduction. Trees in Europe are being butchered; 10% is prescribed but the climber wants to do an extra good job, or is too fat or lazy or rushed to get to the top and just whacks away.

Power companies around here and in general ignore stuff like this.

abaction, are you near Ava? anyway here are ohioan arborists:

http://www.isa-arbor.com/findarborist/findarborist.aspx

in the meantime, why not take the tire iron out out of your trunk and see how far you can shove it in where that conk is?


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