# Porting a Chinese G621 Clone



## Chris-PA (Mar 1, 2014)

First off, in spite of the homely color scheme, this is not a copy of any Sthil product nor does it have the name Stihl on it. It is a straightforward clone of a 62cc Zenoah/RedMax G621AV.

I picked it up for a couple of reasons: First, I wanted a project saw that was bigger than the 40cc saws I've been playing with lately. Second, I've like the Zenoah G621 for some time, but they don't come up often and they usually go for more than I think they are worth (and more than I can justify). Third, I have read all the fuss about Chinese clones, and wanted to see for myself – my other data point is the Earthquake. Last, the G621 shares bars and chains with my McCinderblock and I have some spares. So that is the justification. It was $210 to my door.

My initial impressions were not too favorable. I figured the castings would be aluminum, that it would have lots of molding flash on the plastic parts, casting flash on the aluminum and probably indifferent assembly quality. I planned to tear it down before even running it. However, it was obvious that something was misaligned in regard to the air filter housing (I forgot to take a picture of it), as the bolt didn't line up with the hole in the cover, and the whole cover was shifted over to the clutch side when installed by almost 1/4”. I tried messing with the A/V bushings, but that was not the problem. There were cracked and bent fins on the top of the jug – not a functional problem but ugly.



Also, the bar was awful, with rivets that were not flattened and the sprocket tip was not aligned with the bar. The “tools” provided would be better termed “litter” if you saw them lying about.




To top it off they didn't even step up to the good TriLink chain, rather some awful looking “DOKIO” stuff. Still, I expected a project and figured I'd make of it what I could. Cutters are not even close to the same length on each side.





One of the first things I did to it was to spend an evening with an X-acto knife cleaning up the plastic parts. Simple and easy work, kind of like building model cars when I was a kid. It looked better after that. Then I took it to work to weigh it on the digital shipping scale, and got 12.4lb (12lb, 6oz.), which was considerably lighter than I expected. So that was a pleasant surprise.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 1, 2014)

On to the tear down: Standard G621 – inboard clutch with rim drive (firsts for me). Muffler has decent outlet area with the 5 gills, and I can see there is an adequate hole size in the next baffle in, as well as the first baffle – I don't intend to modify this muffler for now.








These are not bar nuts! Must have gotten them out of some supply catalog.



My degree wheel made from a CD fits perfectly!


Stock timing duration:
E 162
I 150
T 124 (Blowdown at 19)

Exhaust port width is 54% of bore, intake is 46%. Unfortunately the squish is a 0.050”.

I'm impressed! All I'm going to do is drop and widen the intake and pull the gasket.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 1, 2014)

Some casting defects in the exhaust port floor (removed them):





The ol' HUAYI carb – doesn't look bad actually. Probably a bit small for a 62cc saw, and I may look for a bigger on eventually. There is a bit of a ridge around the venturi that I cleaned off when I was reassembling it.









Chao Jing cylinder. Looks OK actually – a little rough along the edge of the transfer divider and around the ports.







Here's the opened intake port:


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## Chris-PA (Mar 1, 2014)

Final timing numbers:
E 160
I 159
T 122 (Blowdown at 19)

Exhaust port width is 54% of bore, intake is 52%. The squish is a 0.035”, which is bigger than I'd like but I'm not ready to set up a fixture for turning it – maybe another day.

It turned out the alignment problem with the air filter cover was due to the oversized holes in the cylinder (or rather the location accuracy – the oversized holes let me fix it). Once I cleaned out the antisieze from the holes I was able to rotate it so that it was centered properly. Now the carb and filter stud are properly centered, and everything fits nicely:



The bar got the rivets peened and the tip straightened on the hydraulic press. It's still crap but might be serviceable:



And here's the finished product:




I did pry open the gills a bit:



It's an under 12-½lb 62cc saw with decent timing numbers. I barely even “ported” it, as the numbers were about where I would start anyway. The 24” bar makes it fall right on it's nose.

It started and ran, but while I was tuning it it stopped running on the H. So I pulled the carb apart and sprayed it out – then it ran great. It was too late to cut with it – maybe tomorrow I can get it in some wood before we get another foot of snow. It will be humorous to see how long the bar and chain last.


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## zogger (Mar 1, 2014)

Nice write up! Looking forward to the in the wood report.


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## Thommo (Mar 1, 2014)

The starter assembly on the Chinese saws seem to fail quite often and the air cleaners don't seal very well, but apart from that they seem ok. It will be interesting to see how the chain performs. The Chinese copy Carlton chains wear in the rivets so they have to be adjusted twice per tank of fuel.


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## Terry Syd (Mar 1, 2014)

Neat project, too bad about the small carb. From the picture it looks to be a Walbro WA/WT clone. I think the maximum venturi size in that series of carbs is around 13.5mm. If a Walbro HD or Zama C3M could be shoe-horned into it you could get a 17mm venturi, which would be about right for that displacement.

The ports and timing look very good and with a bigger carb could likely be turned into a lightweight little weapon. I note the 19mm bar studs, do you think a Husky small mount bar could be worked onto the powerhead? I mention that because I put a lightweight 20" narrow kerf bar on a Stihl 029 (64cc) and the lighter weight and faster cutting changed the whole persona of the saw.

What's with the coils? It looks like there are two separate coils, one for the ignition and the other for what?


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## Chris-PA (Mar 1, 2014)

Thommo said:


> The starter assembly on the Chinese saws seem to fail quite often and the air cleaners don't seal very well, but apart from that they seem ok. It will be interesting to see how the chain performs. The Chinese copy Carlton chains wear in the rivets so they have to be adjusted twice per tank of fuel.


I forgot to mention the air filter - the two halves don't seal worth a darn, so I will have to glue it together. I'll be getting a real one for it. And the chain is a joke - I will sharpen it properly just to see, but I don't expect anything from it. I have an older loop of TriLink that is a copy of Carlton, and it has been perfectly fine.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 1, 2014)

Terry Syd said:


> Neat project, too bad about the small carb. From the picture it looks to be a Walbro WA/WT clone. I think the maximum venturi size in that series of carbs is around 13.5mm. If a Walbro HD or Zama C3M could be shoe-horned into it you could get a 17mm venturi, which would be about right for that displacement.
> 
> The ports and timing look very good and with a bigger carb could likely be turned into a lightweight little weapon. I note the 19mm bar studs, do you think a Husky small mount bar could be worked onto the powerhead? I mention that because I put a lightweight 20" narrow kerf bar on a Stihl 029 (64cc) and the lighter weight and faster cutting changed the whole persona of the saw.
> 
> What's with the coils? It looks like there are two separate coils, one for the ignition and the other for what?


Ahh, but that's the thing - it's an HDA clone. I looked at the clones of the Zenoah mid-sized saws (based on the the G5000), but decided against them because they used WT carbs originally. One of the guys on the Earthquake thread measured the carb on a 58cc and it was still 13.5mm. So I decided to go with this one even though I thought they were a lot heavier. So anyway, it should be no big deal to fit a bigger HDA eventually.

As for the ignition, I wondered about that too and did a little research. About 2/3 down this page is a good explanation: http://www.outdoorking.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=37014&page=all. Basically, it is a CD ignition and the other coil is just to provide a high voltage power supply:


I'm not sure why they used it.

The bar is a D176 mount, and I have a couple of those. I guess with a rim drive I could switch to 0.325"? I'm a rim drive noob.

EDIT - the carb that is in it is a 15mm venturi


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## Terry Syd (Mar 1, 2014)

Chris, that looks like no CDI system I've ever worked on. I don't see a set of points on the saw, according to the schematic, you would need a set of points with that system. Usually a modern CDI system has a solid state SCR to trigger the capacitor and the SCR is controlled by the voltage from another trigger coil. (Although I did convert a VW engine to a CDI system that used the old points as the trigger for the capacitor.)

Is there a manual for the engine? Perhaps that would have some more information.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 1, 2014)

Terry Syd said:


> Chris, that looks like no CDI system I've ever worked on. I don't see a set of points on the saw, according to the schematic, you would need a set of points with that system. Usually a modern CDI system has a solid state SCR to trigger the capacitor and the SCR is controlled by the voltage from another trigger coil. (Although I did convert a VW engine to a CDI system that used the old points as the trigger for the capacitor.)
> 
> Is there a manual for the engine? Perhaps that would have some more information.


Sorry, I posted the schematic to show what the second coil is used for in general - I realize it is for a points ignition, but the actual "switch" (points, transistor, etc.) is a detail that isn't all that important. The IPL lists it as a "source coil", which I believe is consistant with the type of system shown in the diagram. Again, I don't know why they used it or what advantages it may have.


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## Terry Syd (Mar 1, 2014)

If you get a chance, take a picture of where those wires go. Maybe they go to a capacitor, or maybe to a lighting system for night time work LOL!

A CDI system puts out a strong voltage spike and is a more reliable system for starting. Maybe they wanted to make sure that it never had a fouled plug/hard starting.


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## CR888 (Mar 1, 2014)

lnteresting thread Chris, nice pics and all. You love playing with cheaper saws and l hope it turns out well for you. AS member MCW has a bit of experience with chinese saws and he say its a bit hit and miss as far as getting a good one or not but he did specify that ALL the carbs were crap and failure to change one could lead to premature death of saw. He said changing the carb for a quality one was a must. l think that chain will cut better than you think. Good luck!


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## w8ye (Mar 1, 2014)

I have a Japanese Zenoa 621 model airplane engine whereas the cylinder says Husqvarna all over it, the open port layout is like the one in these pictures and the cylinder wall finish is far superior to this clone.

The carb on my engine is a Walbro HDA-48


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## diggers_dad (Mar 1, 2014)

Terry Syd said:


> Neat project, too bad about the small carb. From the picture it looks to be a Walbro WA/WT clone. I think the maximum venturi size in that series of carbs is around 13.5mm. If a Walbro HD or Zama C3M could be shoe-horned into it you could get a 17mm venturi, which would be about right for that displacement.
> 
> The ports and timing look very good and with a bigger carb could likely be turned into a lightweight little weapon. I note the 19mm bar studs, do you think a Husky small mount bar could be worked onto the powerhead? I mention that because I put a lightweight 20" narrow kerf bar on a Stihl 029 (64cc) and the lighter weight and faster cutting changed the whole persona of the saw.
> 
> What's with the coils? It looks like there are two separate coils, one for the ignition and the other for what?



Shindaiwa used a similar setup on their 488 series saws. What I refer to as the coil they call an "exciter coil" and the second part (the one the spark plug wire attaches to) is called the "ignition coil". 

From what I've seen the coils didn't do too well on the Shinny's . There was enough of a failure rate that the Chinese are making replacements for them.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 1, 2014)

w8ye said:


> I have a Japanese Zenoa 621 model airplane engine whereas the cylinder says Husqvarna all over it, the open port layout is like the one in these pictures and the cylinder wall finish is far superior to this clone.
> 
> The carb on my engine is a Walbro HDA-48


Yeah, the finish isn't that pretty, but it looks to be functional- we'll see! 

The HDA-48 is the same size as this one. It looks like an HDB-8 will be the ticket. It has a 16.66mm venturi and a choke built in, with similar linkages. The needle screw heads are much longer, but that should not be a big deal.


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## diggers_dad (Mar 1, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Wow what a piece of junk.



Depends on perspective. It's a new saw and the build quality isn't so great, but it is serviceable. 62cc's for a touch over $200? Not too bad. 

I have enjoyed Chris's builds on the Quakes and he's a little over critical on some of the fit and finish; he seems to be kind of picky. I don't personally know him, but I'd say he's a little OCD and probably likes things neat and tidy. All that attention to detail results in some good write ups and VERY detailed information. I'll be using a lot of his information when I pick one of these up to experiment with. I'm glad he's sharing what he does as he does it.

Thanks Chris!

dd


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## Chris-PA (Mar 2, 2014)

diggers_dad said:


> I don't personally know him, but I'd say he's a little OCD and probably likes things neat and tidy.


Someday I must pan back a bit so you can see the absolute crap hole that I work in! There is probably a pile of junk from every project I've ever worked on, with half a dozen more on top of it. When I need to get to the table saw it's like an archaeological dig. My desk at work is just the same - they gave up trying to get me to clean it up years ago. 

BUT...

I am a little picky about how things fit together.  This one is not too bad now. If it holds up I may order some small bits - A/V covers and air filter cover screw, etc. - from RedMax just so it looks a little nicer. But the air filter is like $37 (  ) so I'll be making this one work!


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## diggers_dad (Mar 2, 2014)

If I find a junk RedMax with a bad p/c I'll send it your way so you can make your project look nice.

The guys like us with the messiest desks are usually the ones who get the most work done. 

dd


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 2, 2014)

Yes Chris nice job I am not for or against any tool or saw, but if you get enjoyment form what you are doing it's all good. I have said this before but it bears repeating, your stove will not burn any better with wood cut from a $50 dollar saw than it will with a $700 dollar one.
As far as Chris goes, I don't know him either. I will tell you this My son had a pp 255 given to him for me cause it was not running. Chris was a wealth of information for me to get parts for that saw. He told me that not only would 255 parts work but so would parts for about 4 other saws. Who the hell knows this stuff? Well he did and he saved me hours of frustration finding parts for the old girl.
Is it a 4 cubic inch Husky ? no it is a 42 cc carry on the Polaris Ranger trail trimming saw, and fun to run too. Thanks Chris for sharing all the information you have learned,... it helped me and many others I bet ! I hope he always reads my posts because people like him save my bacon quite often, and if you saw me you would understand how much bacon that is ! Jeff


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## Chris-PA (Mar 2, 2014)

Stephen C. said:


> very nice write up. Thanks for sharing.


I'm still trying to figure out if this was made by the same outfit as the Earthquakes. I think it is - I know they make a version of it under the "Topsun" name with different styling (and a decomp valve), but there's no way to be sure.


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## Wagnerwerks (Mar 2, 2014)

diggers_dad said:


> The guys like us with the messiest desks are usually the ones who get the most work done.


I resemble that comment.


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## sachsmo (Mar 2, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> With the money an engineer makes, and the time spent lining up filter covers on this junk, "porting," the junk and sharing the tale he could buy a MS261 with M-Tronic and a broom to get that crap out of the bed of his truck. It takes all kinds and what WHW is doing is interesting. Why chain some Chinese kid to a machine that clones crap when there is wood to cut? We still never saw the ported strato intact saws run of Chris-PA's doing to my knowledge.




So,,

Chris is an Engineer?

No wonder he seems to have a hard on for me, no doubt read some o' me posts dogging his trade eh?

I be in the trades, we deal with Engineers daily, and usually have to 'field fit' their boof-ups.

Either that or scab sumthin together to keep production running while they over *anal*ize the problem. Then they spend a week drawing sumthin up send material out to be water jetted, send it to the machine shop, out to the welder,back to the machine shop, finally back to the plant. Then let some poor SOB 'field fit it'.

YUP, we in the trades have little love for 'Engineers', (only the ones who pilot trains eh?)


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## Chris-PA (Mar 2, 2014)

sachsmo said:


> So,,
> 
> Chris is an Engineer?
> 
> ...


Sounds like you need some better engineers. Our production floor is 20' from my office, and there is no door on my office. There are folks on that floor I've worked with for 25 years, and we were out drinking together back before families and responsibilities and stuff. If it doesn't work they know where to find me and they aren't shy either. 

Besides, I know our stuff goes together properly because I built the first ones myself, and designed the manufacturing tools and fixtures. If it doesn't work then something has changed or someone is doing something wrong. The biggest PITA is when some genius keeps struggling with something that obviously isn't working right and/or tries to re-engineer it themselves. That usually leads to recalls.


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## sachsmo (Mar 2, 2014)

Guess we just get the 'posers' (and their drinking buddys)

Actually we only have 2 degreed engineers (out of 7) and one has a degree in 'Process Engineering'

Nice Anology:

Maintenance Man says,
"IF it ain't broke don't fix it"

Engineer says,
"If it ain't broke we haven't added enough improvements"


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## diggers_dad (Mar 2, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> With the money an engineer makes, and the time spent lining up filter covers on this junk, "porting," the junk and sharing the tale he could buy a MS261 with M-Tronic and a broom to get that crap out of the bed of his truck. It takes all kinds and what WHW is doing is interesting. Why chain some Chinese kid to a machine that clones crap when there is wood to cut? We still never saw the ported strato intact saws run of Chris-PA's doing to my knowledge.



Chris,

That's why.

dd


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## anlrolfe (Mar 2, 2014)

Non-compliant chainsaw test


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## Chris-PA (Mar 2, 2014)

diggers_dad said:


> Chris,
> 
> That's why.
> 
> dd


Yup - but there's something else going on with this one. The game doesn't interest me.


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## Franny K (Mar 2, 2014)

Does it have an epa compliance hour rating? How about noise and vibration rating?


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## Chris-PA (Mar 2, 2014)

anlrolfe said:


> Non-compliant chainsaw test



Yeah that bit of marketing fluff has been around a while. The saw they tested is not a copy of any Stihl, it is clearly a RedMax G5000 clone. I suspect the original G5000 would have performed the same. Does that make it a bad saw?

Do the tests represent what you would do with a saw? If those kinds of forces were placed on the saw, what would happen to the operator? Did the added strength needed to pass those tests increase the price or weight, and would you make that tradeoff if it did?


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## Chris-PA (Mar 2, 2014)

Franny K said:


> Does it have an epa compliance hour rating? How about noise and vibration rating?


This thing has no strato or AT technology and has no EPA tag - it's clearly not really permitted. On the other hand, it has quad transfers and if they reduced the volume (increased the velocity), tweaked the port timing, set it lean with special mixture srews and stuffed a cat on it then it would likely pass. This is no different than what is done with many big name saws. 

It has a 110dB label and a CE sticker - as to whether either of those is legit I don't know.


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## rmh3481 (Mar 2, 2014)

Good thread, Chris. Take a look at an HDA-63, standard H/L w/o caps, 16.7mm venturi and an integral choke. 
http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product2.asp?partnum=HDA-63-1&Series=HDA


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Mar 2, 2014)

So are they really 62cc? Did you check bore and stroke? If so what are they?

Reason I ask they have the same looking saw for sale listed as 52cc 58cc 62cc with different bar lengths. 62cc listed $150


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## Chris-PA (Mar 2, 2014)

I dressed the chain today - that was a PITA because they had ground it too deep and that kept pulling the file too low, plus they overheated it and left me a bit of crust to break through. It's not perfect but pretty decent now (the filing anyway). Then I took it up and did some noodling, as some large oak rounds was all that was sticking out of the snow to mess with. I had thought the light saw with the 24" bar would be awkward, but it wasn't while cutting. It rand quite well and I dialed in the tuning. Seemed pretty routine, 4-stroking lightly when I lift. Muffler is pretty loud as-is. 

The chain stretched really fast, and I noticed it had stopped oiling. Plus my shoulder isn't really up to using a saw for long yet, especially after I foolishly tried a drop start, so I came back down to the barn to figure it out. It turned out that the inlet line where it goes into the pump had split. For now I just pulled more line through and cut off the last 1/2", but that line will need replacing. I could get to it with a forceps once I removed the brake cover - it is behind the end of the brake band. It oils fine again. 



Then it turned out the oil fill cap was leaking. The gasket they used was too small a diameter to seal against the case, so I made a new one out of some rubber stock I noticed that that fuel filler cap from my Ryobi will fit the oil fill cap on this perfectly and the gasket will seal.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 2, 2014)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> So are they really 62cc? Did you check bore and stroke? If so what are they?
> 
> Reason I ask they have the same looking saw for sale listed as 52cc 58cc 62cc with different bar lengths. 62cc listed $150


Yes, this matches the stock bore & stroke of the G621. There are also several versions of the "mid-sized" RedMax saw that they sell with bored and stroked engines, including some up to 62cc. These are different engine & saw designs. Usually they are 0.325" chain. As I said up thread, I shied away from those because the carb was small and could not easily be upgraded. 

Actually they sell 72cc versions of this saw in OZ.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 2, 2014)

rmh3481 said:


> Good thread, Chris. Take a look at an HDA-63, standard H/L w/o caps, 16.7mm venturi and an integral choke.
> http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product2.asp?partnum=HDA-63-1&Series=HDA


Cool - thanks!


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## Chris-PA (Mar 2, 2014)

So at this point I think this saw should be thought of as a chainsaw kit. It's based on a good design - the G621 is pretty neat as far as I'm concerned - but the assembly quality is not good enough as-is. I think a pretty complete tear down and proper reassembly should be considered a requirement (but that is what I bought it for). Little stuff needs fixing & correcting - not a problem for someone who knows how to work on it but enough to make it a big mistake for the casual user.

It was really pretty similar to the Earthquake: The castings were not terrible, with the cracked cooling fins on top of the jug being the worst, although that doesn't not really matter. Once the flashing was cleaned up all the plastic parts fit fine. The machining was not pretty but was functional. 

Unlike the Earthquake, which meets emissions regs, the stock porting and muffler are quite nice as-is. The squish is the biggest problem, quite fixable if I felt like turning an insert for it. Then again, while it has a boss cast on the cylinder it has no decomp valve, so maybe keeping it at 0.035" squish is good unless I add one.

It did come with a spike - I only like them for falling, but this saw is light enough for that so I put it on:



Oh yeah - I took the bow out of one half of the air filter by heating it with a heat gun, and then sealed the two halves together with Yamabond. It should be serviceable.


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## Terry Syd (Mar 2, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Dang spill the beans on someone for engineer is like telling them the poor bastard was a lawyer.



Hmm, I was a Barrister (trial attorney) for 20 years. I have also modded a Chinese chainsaw successfully. I don't know, maybe engineers and lawyers like to relax with an intellectual challenge outside of the humdrum work day. It is more fun than playing Chess, and there is a giggle factor when some bloke with a 'name brand' saw gets his azz handed to him from some Chinese POS.


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## Terry Syd (Mar 2, 2014)

The only Chinese saw I've built was a 365 clone. It is now a 77cc work horse I use for bucking. Its done a heap of work, some minor problems with the tank vent and a broken clutch spring, but otherwise very reliable.

I was at a dinner and I got into a discussion about chainsaws with the local mill operator. He has a genuine 365. When I said my Chinese saw would beat his, his reply was "No way!". That led to a race over at his mill. He and his brother ran both the saws and were shocked how the Chinese saw just flat out left the stock Husky way behind.

I felt so bad about their humiliation that I rebuilt their saw to the same specs. Now they have a giggle factor when some bloke shows up with a Stihl.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 3, 2014)

I was drawing out the diagram of the port timing and thought I'd stick it in here:


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## james archibald (Mar 4, 2014)

Congratulations, you have as much money into your chink POS as a knocked around 262 or 272.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2014)

james archibald said:


> Congratulations, you have as much money into your chink POS as a knocked around 262 or 272.


Perhaps a severely knocked around one, for just the saw as a starting point. I didn't want another used saw.


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## naturelover (Mar 4, 2014)

Haven't killed the Quake yet.... 


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


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## Franny K (Mar 4, 2014)

Stephen C. said:


> There is a good chance that the device most of us are using to post here is a chink POS. I don't like it but it is the way it is. World trade agreements are beyond my control and pay grade.



Sorry to take the bait here and derail the thread.

There is free trade and there is fair trade. You can control what you purchace and advise others to purchace. What we have here most likely involves patent infringement and as Chris has stated it doesn't carry the cost of getting epa certified.

I find this thread superior to buying and selling tactics on craig's list and a number of other common themes on here.

I find the pie chart in post 50 informative and will save it to file to try and figure out what other discussiions on here mean. Since this one is not epa certified perhaps it isn't legally improper to modify it.

Fran


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2014)

Franny K said:


> Sorry to take the bait here and derail the thread.
> 
> There is free trade and there is fair trade. You can control what you purchace and advise others to purchace. What we have here most likely involves patent infringement and as Chris has stated it doesn't carry the cost of getting epa certified.
> 
> ...


This particular manufacturer (which I believe is Zhongjian Tools) makes various versions of older Zenoah designs, including the Earthquake which is sold through many large US retailers. I do not know what the relationship, if any, was between the two companies. However, Zenoah did have versions of the GZ400 built in China, so it is quite possible the manufacture of the older designs is legitimate. It is not uncommon for a company to sell the rights to older designs. It seems unlikely that major US companies would sell pirated products as that would be a large liability.

Clearly it is not legit to sell this non-EPA approved product here, although in that regard the end result is no different than a ported saw of any type.


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## spike60 (Mar 4, 2014)

Interesting and informative Chris, and thanks for sharing a closer look. But I really gotta take a couple shots at this saw. (not at you)

Guys are talking about the timing numbers here, but I'm thinking about the financial numbers. $210 to the door is really not that great of a deal for something of such dubious origin. And you've already identified so many flaws in it's brief stay that words like crap and junk are not unjustified. Right on the heals of that $210 are some costs that the typical buyer would quickly face. The hokey bar and chain will not last long, assuming the saw runs long enough to wear them out. Figure another $50 right there. The top cover wouldn't stay on, the air filter won't seal, the saw stopped oiling, the carb is suspect, and the bar and chain are borderline useless. And all for just $210. Call now, operators are standing by! Did someone say junk? Where would Joe Consumer go to get that torn oil line? The average person would not be able, or even inclined to do all the alterations that you did to make this saw somewhat usable. They would feel totally screwed and that's exactly how they should feel. The average yard sale saw wouldn't have that many issues.

All that talk of trying different, (and real), carbs is interesting from hobby/curiosity standpoint, but again, $210 for the "raw materials" for this project seems out of line for what you get. There are so many used saws that could be had for much less money, that would yield much better results.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2014)

spike60 said:


> Interesting and informative Chris, and thanks for sharing a closer look. But I really gotta take a couple shots at this saw. (not at you)
> 
> Guys are talking about the timing numbers here, but I'm thinking about the financial numbers. $210 to the door is really not that great of a deal for something of such dubious origin. And you've already identified so many flaws in it's brief stay that words like crap and junk are not unjustified. Right on the heals of that $210 are some costs that the typical buyer would quickly face. The hokey bar and chain will not last long, assuming the saw runs long enough to wear them out. Figure another $50 right there. The top cover wouldn't stay on, the air filter won't seal, the saw stopped oiling, the carb is suspect, and the bar and chain are borderline useless. And all for just $210. Call now, operators are standing by! Did someone say junk? Where would Joe Consumer go to get that torn oil line? The average person would not be able, or even inclined to do all the alterations that you did to make this saw somewhat usable. They would feel totally screwed and that's exactly how they should feel. The average yard sale saw wouldn't have that many issues.
> 
> All that talk of trying different, (and real), carbs is interesting from hobby/curiosity standpoint, but again, $210 for the "raw materials" for this project seems out of line for what you get. There are so many used saws that could be had for much less money, that would yield much better results.


One of the reasons I did this was to see what the situation really was. I don't disagree with your comments in principal, but you've overplayed it a little bit as the only actual failure was the oil pump line. The carb is fine - I've seen much worse quality with a Walbro name on it, and I am only considering replacing it because it seemed small (but it is the same size as on a 262). The top cover stayed on fine but did not align well, so I didn't need to fix that but it bugged me. 

The bar and chain are junk, and I did do significant repair to the bar, but I'm going to run them to see how they last. I dunno how the bar would have worked as-is. There's a 24" Power Match bar and a loop of square ground hanging in the barn so I don't personally care if the B&C are crap.

The air filter would not have sealed very well as delivered. Ever read any comments bout people having to put grease around the filters of their name brand saws filters to get them to seal? It's a little bit worse than that but was not hard to fix.

But as I said, if someone bought this to use as-is with no skills they would have made a mistake, I have no doubt about that. For one of us it's a fun saw kit and putting it together right only took a couple of hours of easy and enjoyable work. It's exactly the winter project I was looking for to distract from cabin fever. Given my experience with the Earthquake and looking at the mechanical construction I am really not much concerned about it grenading. I still have not spent any more than $210 and I now have quite a nice saw, as it is a copy of a very nice (if a bit obscure) RedMax. It is not a saw to show off to one's friends and make one feel good about their position in life, but it is a decently light and powerful 62cc chainsaw and I expect it will cut some wood. I intend to do just that with it and will see how it holds up. 

I think that the "better results" you mention are mostly social and emotional things. How is it really any different than starting with a used saw that you know will need new parts?

EDIT: One of the other things to take away from this is that they only need to spend a little more time on assembly, and perhaps some better plastic molds, to make an acceptable product. They could change the porting a little and stick a cat muffler on and be legal, just as they did with the Earthquakes and as other name brands do.


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## motorman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

I've really enjoyed this thread. So glad it was someone else's money used for a change. Really makes one have to wonder how Stihl can put out a serviceable saw for around $179 (170) that doesn't have any of the mentioned issues present on the Chicom saw. I'm hoping he'll purchase a Yugo, or Daiwoo next. LOL.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2014)

motorman1 said:


> I've really enjoyed this thread. So glad it was someone else's money used for a change. Really makes one have to wonder how Stihl can put out a serviceable saw for around $179 (170) that doesn't have any of the mentioned issues present on the Chicom saw. I'm hoping he'll purchase a Yugo, or Daiwoo next. LOL.


Simple - a 170 is a really cheaply made plastic clamshell, and chainsaws don't really cost that much to make which means that they can sell the low end ones cheap if they want to. They'll make their money on the expensive ones. And a 170 isn't a 62cc saw either.

Then again a 50cc strato engined Poulan Pro will cost you about the same as that 170 - how come that Stihl costs so much?

I bought a Hyundai Accent in 1999, cheapest car available at the time. Leather wheel and shifter, dead peddle, sunroof, alloys, fog lights, A/C, great adjustable seat. Best car I ever owned, dead solid reliable, easy to service, fun to drive and never gets less then 30mpg. Still drive it every day.

Oh, and you do know that Daewoo designs all of GM's small cars don't you?


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## motorman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Fit and finish on the toy Stihls have always been superb, requiring nothing be done for them to perform like they should. Not knocking the little Poulans at all, just mentioned the Stihl because I've dealt with lots of them. Mostly simple tune ups. Bars are top quality, as are the chains. Just saying everything fits and works as it should on them without requiring owner craftsmanship and engineering skills. I'm with the guy who thinks you're going to end up with a shop floor ornament sooner than you think, probably on your second or third tank. LOL

Had no idea Daewoo designed GM's small cars. Doesn't say much for GM's small cars, does it? Not suggesting you dissect a Hyundai, just the Yugo and Daewoo (both no longer produced), so we can all see how you'd address their poor design, fit and finish. Worst built cars I've ever seen in my life. The Pinto, while a disaster, at least worked and didn't dismantle itself while you were driving down the road, or rolling up the window, or simply shutting the door.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2014)

motorman1 said:


> I'm with the guy who thinks you're going to end up with a shop floor ornament sooner than you think, probably on your second or third tank.


What if it doesn't?

I'm certainly not saying this was an example of high quality manufacturing - it's not. But most of what was wrong with it was easy to fix and involved only a bit of simple clean up and some attention during reassembly. I haven't seen any problems with the basic mechanical assembly yet. So while it would be wrong to say it is a high quality product, I would not count on it blowing up anytime soon either. I've run quite a few tanks through my ported Earthquake (RedMax G3800 clone) and it will start and run on the third pull every time, and it cuts very well. I fully expect them both to last for a long time. If I had to take a guess at the weakest part of this saw it would be the starter, and I may put a decomp valve on it to take the load off of it - but then I really don't have any evidence of that either. 

Just trying to tell it realistically, not look at it through rose colored glasses or to make it out as worse than it is. It's a 62cc alloy case saw that weighs 12.4lbs, makes decent power, has an inboard clutch and rim drive, and adjustable oiler with a knob on the top cover. The assembly was sloppy, but the design is faithful to the original. 

And the Daewoo _is_ still produced and sold here - they just wear Chevy badges now. The Cruze is considered a pretty good car - guess what it is?


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## motorman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

A piece of **** is a piece of ****. I believe the Pinto's gas tank was unprotected behind the rear bumper, but was an easy fix, otherwise the car was mechanically sound for a fuel miser of the 70's. 

As far as the saw goes, if such poor attention was given to its assembly, fit and finish, what makes you think anymore care went into the casting, metallurgy and electronics???? That you defend such an obvious piece of **** astounds me. I don't condone making excuses for companies that produce obviously inferior products, no matter the price point. Use your previous Poulan 50cc analogy as an example, even though they come with a shitty bar and chain. 

I'm a firm believer, after many DECADES of being disappointed, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. I'm also willing to bet a Stihl MS170, Echo, Husky, or Poulan will probably out-cut, and certainly outlast, that Chi-com 62cc saw. The quality just isn't there, and that;s just from reading your postings / findings. The bar's ****, the chain's **** etc... Hell. I'm certain I could spend a few hundred dollars and have one of the saw porters on this site "massage" it to make it "acceptable" as a 62cc saw, but that would be galactically stupid, IMHO.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2014)

motorman1 said:


> A piece of **** is a piece of ****. I believe the Pinto's gas tank was unprotected behind the rear bumper, but was an easy fix, otherwise the car was mechanically sound for a fuel miser of the 70's.
> 
> As far as the saw goes, if such poor attention was given to its assembly, fit and finish, what makes you think anymore care went into the casting, metallurgy and electronics???? That you defend such an obvious piece of **** astounds me. I don't condone making excuses for companies that produce obviously inferior products, no matter the price point. Use your previous Poulan 50cc analogy as an example, even though they come with a shitty bar and chain.
> 
> I'm a firm believer, after many DECADES of being disappointed, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. I'm also willing to bet a Stihl MS170, Echo, Husky, or Poulan will probably out-cut, and certainly outlast, that Chi-com 62cc saw. The quality just isn't there, and that;s just from reading your postings / findings. The bar's ****, the chain's **** etc... Hell. I'm certain I could spend a few hundred dollars and have one of the saw porters on this site "massage" it to make it "acceptable" as a 62cc saw, but that would be galactically stupid, IMHO.


Then I would suggest you not get one. I'd also suggest there are plenty of things in life you can get stressed about, some of them actually important. This isn't one.


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## motorman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Then I would suggest you not get one. I'd also suggest there are plenty of things in life you can get stressed about, some of them actually important. This isn't one.




Never for minute did I think it was important, just entertaining. I'd never buy such a saw, but have always wondered what drove others to spend money to find out about them. I both salute and thank you. Posts like yours are valuable, so people can confirm what they've mostly known and you've proven, with your money, time and saw knowledge. I know I've looked at more than a few Chicom Stihl 090 knock-offs and wondered, hmmmmm. No offense meant, really.


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## motorman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

I kind of like that he is wasting his money evaluating saws I would have balked at and not given any further attention, confirms my thoughts and re-affirms my belief in spending on quality over price. I'm grateful he has the disposable cash to spend on such saw. As I said earlier, I've been very interested in the AM Stihl 137cc class saws. Huge difference in price between OEM and AM. Next, perhaps he can post a Chicom AM build thread of a complete Stihl 090?

PS.: If he can cut one cord of hardwood with that saw, IMHO, he didn't break even. I can get a "seasoned" cord of hardwood delivered for $225


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2014)

motorman1 said:


> I'm grateful he has the disposable cash to spend on such saw. As I said earlier, I've been very interested in the AM Stihl 137cc class saws. Huge difference in price between OEM and AM. Next, perhaps he can post a Chicom AM build thread of a complete Stihl 090?


If you are considering buying a 090, either real or copy, then you obviously have no problem disposing of cash - they are almost totally pointless as useful tools for cutting wood, rather they are toys to be played with. I am curious what other saws you have?


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## motorman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> If you are considering buying a 090, either real or copy, then you obviously have no problem disposing of cash - they are almost totally pointless as useful tools for cutting wood, rather they are toys to be played with. I am curious what other saws you have?




Pretty close to every Stihl made now, and since 1990
Several Husky's L series through 372 and 288
Couple of Poulan Pro's 3700-5200
Some really old Maxs
Some reallt old Homelites
Some really old Pioneers
Some really old Partners
Some really old Prtners
Some really old Dolmars

Just curious, which newer saw would you suggest to flush cut a 60"+ cedar? Lots of them now thanks to the 400,000+ acre "rimfire" in California.


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## bubmiller (Mar 4, 2014)

Wow, I cant believe the hate towards this project. Why don't we cheer the guy on instead of tearing him down. If he didn't spend your money what is it to you. He did everyone a favor since we now know who could buy one of these (someone with shop skills) and who should completely avoid them. I'm not sure anyone is even promoting these saws, but someone has given us the good, the bad, and the ugly; without costing us a dime! 

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk


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## motorman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Strongly suggest you read it again. I praised him for spending his money and educating us on such a saw, even saluted him. You not understand ENGLISH?


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2014)

motorman1 said:


> Pretty close to every Stihl made now, and since 1990
> Several Husky's L series through 372 and 288
> Couple of Poulan Pro's 3700-5200
> Some really old Maxs
> ...


If you've got 60" cedars then you'd be one of the few that could use an 090 for the purpose it was intended. 

That's quite an investment. Even with this big $210 expenditure of disposable cash which you so obviously disapprove of (note that I do not need your approval), my saws in total are worth a tiny fraction of what you've spent. Seems quite curious to be chastised by some guy who's spent what you have. Every one of my saws is considered junk, all but 2 were used and broken. Every one runs perfectly. We heat exclusively with wood, and the house is warm and cozy, and next year some of that wood will be cut by this saw. There is really no need to feel threatened by my cheap saw, it's not going to devalue your collection. 



motorman1 said:


> Strongly suggest you read it again. I praised him for spending his money and educating us on such a saw, even saluted him. You not understand ENGLISH?


Oh, I can read. You've made your point quite clear and are nowhere near as subtle as you believe.


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## weedkilla (Mar 4, 2014)

Like many others, this saw wouldn't be my choice, but I can't see the difference between this and a rebuilt name brand saw with an AM top end, carby, etcetera. 
Read a thread on a BB kitted dolmar and then this one and the consensus of opinion is markedly different.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2014)

bubmiller said:


> Wow, I cant believe the hate towards this project. Why don't we cheer the guy on instead of tearing him down. If he didn't spend your money what is it to you. He did everyone a favor since we now know who could buy one of these (someone with shop skills) and who should completely avoid them. I'm not sure anyone is even promoting these saws, but someone has given us the good, the bad, and the ugly; without costing us a dime!
> 
> Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk


Thank you, and welcome. Lots of guys buy saws because they enjoy using them, working on them, modifying them and talking about them. They can be new or old, cheap or expensive, there is something of common interest to discuss. 

Some guys buy expensive saws (and other things too) as a way to increase their social cred, and a thread about something that is inexpensive makes them feel threatened because they think their investment is devalued by equating their expensive toys to cheap ones. So then they get upset.

So just for the record, this cheap Chinese saw is not as good as an expensive Husky or Stihl, and no one ever implied it is. So relax.


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## motorman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Done many rebuilt saws with AM cylinders and pistons. For starters they don't need any "massaging", other than maybe de-burring the new cylinder / or piston. The rest of the saws are good to go. 

FWIW, my saw expenditures are over many decades and every one of them has been used for years, not hours. Again, I value what you've spent on the Chicom saw. I don't own any saw dealership, but have used and repaired many different brands of saws. You want to see what a saw can do in the worst condition? See what a saw looks like after cutting burned forrest wood, most over 35", all day and into the night. That's right, the forest surrounding Yosemite has been logged for the past 3 months. It's not been logged for at least 75+ years, or so. Big / huge wood coming out of there! 

Been around the business awhile and have seen a few things, believe it, or not.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2014)

motorman1 said:


> Done many rebuilt saws with AM cylinders and pistons. For starters they don't need any "massaging", other than maybe de-burring the new cylinder / or piston. The rest of the saws are good to go.


All I did to this cylinder was a little de-burring along the edge of the transfers, plus remove a tiny bit of junk on the floor of the exhaust port that wouldn't have mattered in the least (i.e. cosmetic). I also modified the intake port, but that was not due to any defect, rather it was the porting part of the thread. So it sounds like this piece of junk is equivalent to the AM cylinders you've used. I'm astounded you would use such a piece of ****.



motorman1 said:


> You want to see what a saw can do in the worst condition? See what a saw looks like after cutting burned forrest wood, most over 35", all day and into the night. That's right, the forest surrounding Yosemite has been logged for the past 3 months. It's not been logged for at least 75+ years, or so. Big / huge wood coming out of there!


Now what idiot would attempt to run a $200 62cc Chinese saw all day and into the night in the worst conditions (burned) cutting big/huge wood that hasn't been logged for at least 75+ years? And where in this thread do you find that I suggested that would be an appropriate use for this saw? Honestly, are you just out to prove you have the biggest bar?


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## Terry Syd (Mar 4, 2014)

Chris, you mentioned that they sold a 72cc version of this saw in Oz. Is this the saw you were referring to - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/72CC-24-...41?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item20c5078129

They list the weight as 7 kilos, so it may be built on a different chassis. It does appear to have the same CDI system.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 4, 2014)

Terry Syd said:


> Chris, you mentioned that they sold a 72cc version of this saw in Oz. Is this the saw you were referring to - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/72CC-24-...41?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item20c5078129
> 
> They list the weight as 7 kilos, so it may be built on a different chassis. It does appear to have the same CDI system.


Yeah Terry, that's definitely the same saw but with a different styled starter. I had seen it some time ago an could not remember the name. Even the "tool kit" is identical, and the bar and chain look to be as well. The 62cc is sold as a Topsun saw with different plastics/covers, but I think it is the same basic saw too. 

I did not know what to expect of the weight given the various specs out there, including the ones for the RedMax and Green Machine saws on Acres. I certainly never expected it to be as light as it is, especially as I figure those are probably not mag castings.


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## james archibald (Mar 5, 2014)

Pass the Swede/Crout saws and hold the BS. I'll put my hard earned money into non-chink ****.


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## Terry Syd (Mar 5, 2014)

Too bad I already have a bucking saw, for that price (US$170) I'd buy one and fix it up. If it was a 12.5 lbs powerhead, it'd probably be a bit easier on my back.


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## motorman1 (Mar 5, 2014)

I get the purpose of this thread and again, I thank you. I guess I just can't wrap my head around why anyone would want to spend $200 on a 62cc saw, which has to be torn down and worked on before they're even run. You believe the saw you described, with the questionable bar and chain and poor fitting plastics and factory defective filter is really worth $200? If you didn't have the money and were in dire need of a 60cc saw, you could do a whole lot better with a used saw. And no, I don't need to actually hold or run that Chi-com POS to know that. Now, if you could get that same saw for around $40, and get someone to throw in a real bar and chain, that might be different. 

My guess is if the thing is still running after it's first tank, and if the chain hasn't come apart and injured someone, you'll be spending at least another $60-$65 on a GOOD bar and chain. Making your initial investment around $275 for a tool, that according to your postings, doesn't seem very capable, unless of course, you only intended to start it up a couple of times in the garage. Again, If it was only $40, or so, different story. 

BTW, the AM parts I have had to clean up were being put on "dead" saws, not new ones like yours.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 5, 2014)

motorman1 said:


> I get the purpose of this thread and again, I thank you. I guess I just can't wrap my head around why anyone would want to spend $200 on a 62cc saw, which has to be torn down and worked on before they're even run. You believe the saw you described, with the questionable bar and chain and poor fitting plastics and factory defective filter is really worth $200? If you didn't have the money and were in dire need of a 60cc saw, you could do a whole lot better with a used saw. And no, I don't need to actually hold or run that Chi-com POS to know that. Now, if you could get that same saw for around $40, and get someone to throw in a real bar and chain, that might be different.
> 
> My guess is if the thing is still running after it's first tank, and if the chain hasn't come apart and injured someone, you'll be spending at least another $60-$65 on a GOOD bar and chain. Making your initial investment around $275 for a tool, that according to your postings, doesn't seem very capable, unless of course, you only intended to start it up a couple of times in the garage. Again, If it was only $40, or so, different story.
> 
> BTW, the AM parts I have had to clean up were being put on "dead" saws, not new ones like yours.


As documented, the "torn apart and worked on" part took an evening and part of a day doing work I enjoy (helping to stave off cabin fever) - TOTAL. And that included optional work like cleaning things up for cosmetic reasons, measuring timing, taking pictures and grinding the intake port. As stated, B&C never mattered much to me at all and I never expected much of them. I've got other bars and chains hanging in the barn that will fit, which was part of the decision to buy it. My cost will *not* be $275. 

The saw is a faithful copy of a G621AV, which is a saw I've liked for some time. So it has all the characteristics of that saw - are you familiar with that design? What other $210 62cc saw could I get that would not need to be torn down, with as least as much time invested, plus probably new parts?

If it doesn't fail, and I doubt it will given past experience with the Earthquakes and my own mechanical judgment, then why do you think I got ripped off? Especially since I had a good understanding of exactly what I was getting?

The saw runs, and runs quite well. You are SURE it will fail, and in just a few tanks too. If it doesn't, would your opinion of it be changed?

The AM parts you bought and used were of similar source and quality to this saw. Why didn't you buy OEM?


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## spike60 (Mar 5, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> One of the reasons I did this was to see what the situation really was. I don't disagree with your comments in principal, but you've overplayed it a little bit as the only actual failure was the oil pump line.
> 
> But as I said, if someone bought this to use as-is with no skills they would have made a mistake, I have no doubt about that. For one of us it's a fun saw kit and putting it together right only took a couple of hours of easy and enjoyable work. It's exactly the winter project I was looking for to distract from cabin fever. Given my experience with the Earthquake and looking at the mechanical construction I am really not much concerned about it grenading. I still have not spent any more than $210 and I now have quite a nice saw, as it is a copy of a very nice (if a bit obscure) RedMax. It is not a saw to show off to one's friends and make one feel good about their position in life, but it is a decently light and powerful 62cc chainsaw and I expect it will cut some wood. I intend to do just that with it and will see how it holds up.
> 
> I think that the "better results" you mention are mostly social and emotional things. How is it really any different than starting with a used saw that you know will need new parts




You make some fair points Cris. We certainly seem to agree that this isn't a saw that Joe Average could just take out of the box as is and go to the woods without being seriously disappointed. And that was really my main point. Being a dealer, if I sold something with that many issues, new or used, I'd have one unhappy customer on my hands. That was primarily the perspective from which I was posting. No matter what people pay for something, they expect that it will work. And out of the box, this thing falls short of that expectation. And for $210 there are saws out there that will actually work out of the box. And the other thing that will be in that box is a warranty statement. 

But as a fun project/fight the cabin fever, why not? In that sense, it's not that different from resurecting a dead saw that's been in a barn for 30 years. And you don't have any crud to clean off. And with your interest in the EQ's, taking a look at one of these 62cc saws is a logical step. I'm also a Red Max dealer and not unfamiliar with the 621 that they are basing these things on. If they would use better materials, the design is at least sound. 

Where I mentioned that better results could be realized with a quality used saw, it was not based on social/emotional reasons. It was on the basis that in most cases you would be working with a better foundation and the end result would therefore be a better saw. For example a guy finds a 257 Husky or 038 Stihl in need of a piston and some TLC. He'd end up with a good saw and have continued parts support available as well. 

Gotta add here for everybody that on a site like this, whether you like the saw or not, or it's origin, this thread is informative and it let's all of us take a close look at something most of have never seen. So it's cool that Chris is sharing the whole thing with us.


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## roncoinc (Mar 5, 2014)

Hey Chris,,,good on ya for this one.

Seems a couple of the hard hitters with less than three weeks here seem to have it all figured out,even after never owning a chinee saw 

Not enough time for me or enough post's to have established any credability,,,so opionoins worthless ,i would even respond to them 

You should discuss it with people you know have something worthwhile to listen too.


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## LegDeLimber (Mar 5, 2014)

Mercy Sakes, Is that actually one of those elusive Carburetor Adjusting Tools in the kit !??!
UUUNN-like the other brands mentioned. 
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDgwMA==/z/yvQAAOxy3NBSm86q/$_57.JPG 

Well throw another saw on the barby mates.
Soon as I can finish stripping some more of my copper wire
I'm gonna buy me a ticket on the next refugee boat to 'Roo-land!


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## Chris-PA (Mar 5, 2014)

LegDeLimber said:


> Mercy Sakes, Is that actually one of those elusive Carburetor Adjusting Tools in the kit !??!


Nah, it's got straight slot screws. Normally I don't like them, but this has a nice nylon fitting that aligns the screwdriver perfectly. 



Terry Syd said:


> Is this the saw you were referring to - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/72CC-24-...41?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item20c5078129


I was just looking at the pictures there, and I noticed something - there is an inner bar plate there, and mine does not have it.


Apparently they just left it off. So I went to RedMax and ordered the inner bar plate and a bunch of small parts - air filter cover screw, A/V mount caps, a throttle rod, etc. The total was $29 with shipping. So now my total investment is $239. The bar plate was only like $2.


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## LegDeLimber (Mar 5, 2014)

Might be "old school" but it's still a carb tool [? just ask the EPA]
and nonetheless now verboten for us yanks. ( insert smiley here)
edit: and Yeah I wish we'd have had the spline head screws 30 years ago too.
way easier to use the tool for 'em!!


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## VINIFIREWOOD (Mar 5, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> As documented, the "torn apart and worked on" part took an evening and part of a day doing work I enjoy (helping to stave off cabin fever) - TOTAL. And that included optional work like cleaning things up for cosmetic reasons, measuring timing, taking pictures and grinding the intake port. As stated, B&C never mattered much to me at all and I never expected much of them. I've got other bars and chains hanging in the barn that will fit, which was part of the decision to buy it. My cost will *not* be $275.
> 
> The saw is a faithful copy of a G621AV, which is a saw I've liked for some time. So it has all the characteristics of that saw - are you familiar with that design? What other $210 62cc saw could I get that would not need to be torn down, with as least as much time invested, plus probably new parts?
> 
> ...




No need to explain yourself Chris. Its your money, do with it what you like. Who are any of us to tell you what to do with it. And a big thumbs up for sharing it all with us.

When you are finished "massaging" this thing I could see it running along side other "Homeowner/Landowner" class saws for a lot less money.

I think a lot of people have a hard on for chinese anything because it doesn't fit their "made in america" attitude. Really what is made in america anymore? I own a GMC pickup that was assembled in Canada and who knows where the rest of it was actually made. I know the engine was made by Isuzu (duramax). I also own a Toyota that was assembled right here in the US. So really how does one define "Made in America" these days. We surely don't have an option anymore when it comes to chainsaws.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 5, 2014)

Stephen C. said:


> that is some funny stuff. My 52cc chicom saw from Canada came with that same tool kit. The quality of those tools make the saw itself look like a extremely high caliber piece of work. The screwdriver/wrench is made of some kind of metal that is slightly softer than lead or pewter. For giggles I tried to remove the spark plug with it. The handle bent 90 degrees just before the wrench completely rounded and turned back into the lead pipe it was stamped from. There must be some Chinese factory owner just laughing his ass off with every shipment. I can't imagine what it would be like as a factory worker producing tools that are completely worthless. It would make one aspire to get a job in a chain saw factory.


I actually removed the plug and removed/installed the bar with the scrench that came with mine. OK, now I can say I did it and put that thing off to the side where it belongs! Did you have enough guts to put fuel in that fuel bottle? Funny thing is, that semi-metallic screwdriver doesn't actually fit anything on this saw, and will not fit in the holes to adjust the carb!


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## Jlhotstick3 (Mar 5, 2014)

I kinda wanna see this thing run...... Nice write up!


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## redfin (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks for the thread Chris.


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## motorman1 (Mar 5, 2014)

My apologies If I got a little testy on this thread. I really, truly enjoyed it. Great job and thanks for sharing. Please make a few videos and give your opinion as to whether or not the saw performs as well as a 62cc saw should. I'm curious to find out if it makes the power. I've read the 090/070 Chicom clones run fine, but don't produce nearly the power of the real ones.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 5, 2014)

I had to take today off for other reasons and it turned out to be pretty warm, so I decided to drop this ash that has been leaning into a yard area for a couple of years now. That's a strap fence to the left and I undid the top brackets as I figured the upper branches would just get it. 






It hardly required a 24" bar it was an excuse to run the saw. I thought the saw seemed a little sluggish, and I noticed it was cutting some rather interesting curves. So back to the barn.

I decided to give it a bit of spark advance which I had not touched before. I ended up being conservative and just added 3deg. The flywheel is a nice casting with a steel center insert and a real key. There is a magnet in the middle on each side, but one side has two additional. I really must figure out how this ignition works someday:




That definitely made it feel snappier -throttle response is improved. I may try going a bit further and see what 6deg will do. I have a bag of keys I got from McMaster-Carr. 

Now for the curving cuts - the chain is actually not that bad in spite of how it looks, and it was advertised as 0.058" which it appears to be. But the bar groove is consistently 0.075", which seems way too wide. The chain is just flopping over in there. It _might_ be acceptable for 0.063" chain but not for this loop. I tried a couple of things out but then put on the Power Match bar and a loop of square ground. What a difference! It's lighter too, and cuts nice and straight. Some of the sluggish feeling was the bar binding in the curving cuts. With a bit of spark advance and good chain it feels quite nice, and even bucking and limbing that little thing with a 24" bar did not feel clunky. 

I'm not about to buy a bar to fit that chain, but I might get a loop of 0.063" to fit the bar someday, unless that's too wide even for 0.063"? Anyway, it doesn't matter as I have the 24" and an Oregon 20" to fit it.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 5, 2014)

motorman1 said:


> My apologies If I got a little testy on this thread. I really, truly enjoyed it. Great job and thanks for sharing. Please make a few videos and give your opinion as to whether or not the saw performs as well as a 62cc saw should. I'm curious to find out if it makes the power. I've read the 090/070 Chicom clones run fine, but don't produce nearly the power of the real ones.


It's cool - sorry if I got too indignant. It's all for fun, and I can laugh at the thing too. I really must post a close up of the "file" that came with it - you couldn't file your nails with it.


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## Terry Syd (Mar 5, 2014)

A flywheel with a replaceable Woodruff key, I wish my Huskys and Stihl had that, it would make changing the ignition timing a bit easier. - Weird they cut costs on the plastic, but increased costs on the casting and extra machining for the flywheel insert and the addition of the key. I suppose they were following the original design.


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## griffonks (Mar 5, 2014)

I don't have any Chinese saws, but I was interested by this youtube video comparing Joe Average's experience with a Poulan Pro and a Chinese saw after Hurricane Sandy.


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## clemsonfor (Mar 5, 2014)

Post so I can find this later.

Sent from my N9810 using Tapatalk


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## Chris-PA (Mar 5, 2014)

griffonks said:


> I don't have any Chinese saws, but I was interested by this youtube video comparing Joe Average's experience with a Poulan Pro and a Chinese saw after Hurricane Sandy.



Average? That guy isn't remotely bright enough to be average, but at least he's an ass. While the saw worked for him I still don't believe that the Chinese saws you can buy on eBay and the like are appropriate for the novice homeowner. Maybe something like the Earthquakes where there are large retailers and the possibility of returns and/or replacement. The saw he got is a clone of a Zenoah/RedMax G5000 saw bored and stroked to 60cc. Same basic saw as the 45cc Earthquakes. A perfectly good design, quite possibly made by the same outfit that made this one. If the end of the oiler hose had split on his saw, would he have been able to fix it?

I've been running plastic Poulans for years. I'm never sure if the US made Poulans are hated more here on AS than the Chinese made saws - it's close. It's what cut most of my wood until I started using RedMax GZ4000 saws. I think they're great saws, and I believe that the quality and price combination of the Poulans, combined with the emissions rules, is what keeps Chinese saws out. I still have several and they still get a lot of use. A PP5020 was the other saw I was considering for a project - a fine saw and I like the design, but I wanted something bigger for a change of pace.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 5, 2014)

Stephen C. said:


> that is just so funny, you must type a lot faster than me....I resisted the 5020 but when it dropped to $109 I caved.


How do you melt a recoil? Maybe he thought it was a wind up saw?

A man walks into a hardware store and asks for a chain saw that will cut 6 trees in one hour. 
The salesman recommends the top of the line model. 
The man is suitably impressed, and buys it. 
The next day he brings it back and says, "This chainsaw is defective. It would only cut down one tree and it took ALL DAY!" 
The salesman takes the chain saw, starts it up to see what's wrong, and the man asks, "What's that noise?


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## Big_Wood (Mar 6, 2014)

man, what a PITA. some people just have some hardcore issues. it's one thing to argue about fuel mix and cylinder clean up methods etc............ but chris is doing what he likes to do. it's entirely up to him and does not affect anyone else. if a guy doesn't like it then stay the **** out of the thread. i thought the thread was enjoyable even though i didn't post in it. the last few pages were pathetic. even though this is the internet and you can hide behind your computer. the usernames of certain individuals are already known to have trolls posting with them. good thread chris. it was enjoyable to most i'd say.


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## Terry Syd (Mar 6, 2014)

Yeah, a lot of the old guys left the forum because of this type of crap. I don't remember guys like Timberwolf ever working on a Chinese saw, but he still took the same kind of ignorant BS whether he was working on a Stihl or Husky. I can understand why he and others left. - A bloke takes the time and effort to try to expand the information base, and then you get morons with 'adequacy issues' that try and down grade it with pathetic snipes from their keyboard.

Thanks Chris for your contribution to the forum, it makes up for some of the others that are incapable of contributing.


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## naturelover (Mar 6, 2014)

You know, from a reliability standpoint, I doubt my 38cc Quake is that far behind a comparable Stihl or Husky homeowner saw. It'd probably put the same amount of wood in the stove over its lifetime as those name brand saws. 

Apparently that bothers some on here, cause their $200 chainsaw ain't much better than my $35 chainsaw.

I've done nothing to it except sharpen the chain, and it gets way less special treatment than my other saws, it's even drinking year old stale outboard mix now, all without a hiccup. It'll soon get a new test of how well canola oil is at lubing a b/c.

Think of that too, how much care does a cheap Chinese saw receive compared to a more expensive name brand from the average homeowner? 

One could argue that the cheap saws are even more reliable considering the abuse they receive. 

Chris's flywheel picture reminded me of something too. 

Take the starter cover off a $1000 441C and compare the starter paws to a $35 Quake.

I say all this coming in with the same disposition as others, that a Chinese chainsaw ain't worth it.

My Quake is putting up a strong argument however... 


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


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## o8f150 (Mar 6, 2014)

I am putting my 2 cents in on this and believe me I am not happy at all,,,,1st) hats off to the OP on making this thread,, I almost bought one of these saws just to dissect just like the thread I did on the earth quakes,, hope this thread goes that far,,,,, 2nd) there is several of you that need to be kick in the azz,,, the man wanted to share the dissection of this saw and there are several of you started bashing saying its stupid,, waste of money,, why buy a POS like that,, ect,,ect,,ect,,,, knock it off people,,, since I did the earthquake thread look how many people bought one,,, did the mods,, ran them and really liked them and I believe most all of them are still running to this day after being beat to death,, mine would still be running but due to needing a few bucks I sold the ones I had months ago,,,, what I am saying,,,,,, stop the BS bullying and yes I used the word bullying because I feel this is what it is,,,, ok,, I am vented,,, again,,,HATS OFF TO THE OP!!!!!!!!!


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## BDM53ENT (Mar 6, 2014)

Chris, thank you sharing the info. If you enjoy buying a cheep saw and modifying it then you are doing what you enjoy. For the members giving you grief maybe they should find a thread that interest them instead of harping on yours. They will keep showing their rear ends, as they are like roaches and will never go away, but keep on doing what YOU enjoy! Thats all that matters.


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## redfin (Mar 6, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Now for the curving cuts - the chain is actually not that bad in spite of how it looks, and it was advertised as 0.058" which it appears to be. But the bar groove is consistently 0.075", which seems way too wide. The chain is just flopping over in there. It _might_ be acceptable for 0.063" chain but not for this loop. I tried a couple of things out but then put on the Power Match bar and a loop of square ground. What a difference! It's lighter too, and cuts nice and straight. Some of the sluggish feeling was the bar binding in the curving cuts. With a bit of spark advance and good chain it feels quite nice, and even bucking and limbing that little thing with a 24" bar did not feel clunky.
> 
> I'm not about to buy a bar to fit that chain, but I might get a loop of 0.063" to fit the bar someday, unless that's too wide even for 0.063"? Anyway, it doesn't matter as I have the 24" and an Oregon 20" to fit it.


Just for reference. I have a bunch of 91 Oregon chains that measured .043" driver width. I have a few bars that were worn. The bars came in at .060" in the groove. They all cut crooked and bound up in the cut.

I used a .050" sawsal blade and closed the groove on one of the bars. This one cuts as it should now.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 6, 2014)

redfin said:


> Just for reference. I have a bunch of 91 Oregon chains that measured .043" driver width. I have a few bars that were worn. The bars came in at .060" in the groove. They all cut crooked and bound up in the cut.
> 
> I used a .050" sawsal blade and closed the groove on one of the bars. This one cuts as it should now.


This thing has a 0.017" gap too with a 0.058" chain. The gap would go down to 0.012" with an 0.063", which is still a bit sloppy. I've considered closing the rails a bit, but on first glance they do not appear flanged or tapered internally, although I'll have to take the time to measure more carefully. I think if I had an 0.063" loop it might be worth closing them a bit, but I'm not sure I want to close them all the way down to fit this chain. 

On the other hand, they'll probably just hang there if I don't, so what the heck?!


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## Thommo (Mar 7, 2014)

It must be pretty common for the chinese to mis match bars and chains. i bought a 45cc saw that had a 50 gauge chain and 63 gauge bar. I sent the seller an email to explain what was wrong and they sent me another 50 gauge chain. i ended up buying a 63 gauge oregon chain and straightened the bar and it cuts good now. I have had the saw for three years and it is still going strong apart from two broken starter assemblies and broken plastic starter pawls. i made some new starter pawls out of steel and keep a spare starter assembly with it now. Its the main saw i use for firewood cutting.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 7, 2014)

Thommo said:


> It must be pretty common for the chinese to mis match bars and chains. i bought a 45cc saw that had a 50 gauge chain and 63 gauge bar. I sent the seller an email to explain what was wrong and they sent me another 50 gauge chain. i ended up buying a 63 gauge oregon chain and straightened the bar and it cuts good now. I have had the saw for three years and it is still going strong apart from two broken starter assemblies and broken plastic starter pawls. i made some new starter pawls out of steel and keep a spare starter assembly with it now. Its the main saw i use for firewood cutting.


I've decided that is what I will do with mine too; just get an 0.063" chain for it. I'll see what the local hardware store/Stihl dealer has on the shelf but I'm in no rush. T

his chain seemed to fit in there OK until all the paint wore out of the bar groove and the burrs wore off of the drive links. I suspect they cannot get the 0.063" chain in the groove originally.


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## angelo c (Mar 7, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Someday I must pan back a bit so you can see the absolute crap hole that I work in! There is probably a pile of junk from every project I've ever worked on, with half a dozen more on top of it. When I need to get to the table saw it's like an archaeological dig. My desk at work is just the same - they gave up trying to get me to clean it up years ago.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> I am a little picky about how things fit together.  This one is not too bad now. If it holds up I may order some small bits - A/V covers and air filter cover screw, etc. - from RedMax just so it looks a little nicer. But the air filter is like $37 (  ) so I'll be making this one work!



Chris, its common knowledge to keep the value high on these saws you need to keep all the parts original. The Asian knockoff market is very fickle...i wouldnt be replacing those OEM asian knockoff parts with any valuable real parts... 
Nice thread though. Sorry im so late to it.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 7, 2014)

rogue60 said:


> Dont get me wrong Chris-PA like many I like your threads but in all in all honesty you need to get a pro Husky or Stihl in your hands, myself care less bout this Chinese saw im not bagging it and Im not here to bag you about it I say good on ya for putting it out there the good the bad and the chinese! haha .. ..Yes I like my little poulan 42cc but only as a play and cut a (little) firewood on the weekend thing here and there...If I was to take it to work and put it to work Id get maybe 3days out of it and be behind 13 days work and no Im not saying that to be an ass...The old mag pro poulan saws are a thing of the past back then they where a pro saw something a man could make a living with ,the toys they have now days well if ya dont get it ya dont get it.....Your an engineer is it not about a well engineered tool?.....Like I said dont get me wrong I am all for this thread its a great read but tell the day you get a pro saw in your hands? only then would you see Stihl/husky steal nothing from throwaway cheap saw's....Man if ya was over here Id send you a 660 for fee to tinker with just so you could see the other side what is well engineered....Like I said im not trying to be an ass just pointing out there is way more to this chainsaw thing than meets the eye in some cases they are a tool a man hang's off day in day out to feed their family and try to get ahead in life with pure gut busting hard work!......Just saying and all and only IMHO.....


A couple of points:

First, I'm not a pro, I'm a firewood hack. I'm not sure why the issue of using this thing all day as a pro keeps coming up - that would seem to be foolish thing to do, but then it cost $210 delivered. I personally cannot rationalize spending any more for a saw as it would not provide me one single additional capability that I need. In truth I didn't really need this one, but it did reduce the weight I'll have to carry when I need a 24" bar. I have tools I work with every day that blow away the stuff a guy might use at home - but it would be pointless for someone to spend that much since they would get no benefit out of it. 

Second, there is no Chinese engineering in this saw. The design is pure Zenoah G621AV, and faithfully reproduced even when they clearly could have reduced the cost. As I said, I like the design of the saw, even recognizing that it is getting old. Is it a pro design? That's a marketing term, but what does this design lack compared to other older pro 60cc designs? Compared to newer designs it lacks strato and AT, which would be absolute minimum requirements to me if I were to buy a newer pro saw, but then there are still new pro saws out there that lack both. Looking at the weight thread, I'm not seeing much that comes in as light as this one - it's less than a pound heavier than my 42cc Poulan!

Last, the issue of a well engineered tool: It takes as much good engineering, sometimes more, to design a low end tool as it does to design a high end tool. It's just a different set of requirements and compromises. It's not easy to come up with solutions with the added burden of reduced costs and specific manufacturing constraints. When I look at the design of something like a PP5020, I am quite impressed with the design. For example they took a simple and inexpensive open transfer casting and added some plastic spacers, producing what is effectively a closed transfer cylinder at much lower cost. Some guys pull those apart and think "what cheap junk", but to me that was a clever and effective design. Conversely, I see guys spend a lot of money on saws that have not got any better engineering, technology or features than they could have bought 20 years ago. I think what you're really after is a well made saw, which something like the 660 is - and it should be at that price.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 7, 2014)

Stephen C. said:


> beats me. I should have preceeded it with "in my
> 
> 
> Your post reminds me of the first time I used a professional grade circular saw. I had gone through many years thinking I just didn't have the hand eye coordination to use a hand held circular saw. I could never keep the blade on the line. One day I needed to cut a counter top in half and I was far from home so a friend let me use his old pro grade Porter Cable. That thing cut like it had eyes, zero vibration and I could split a pencil line and cut laser straight. I had only used super cheap homeowner saws in the past. The next thing I knew, I had a collection of pro grade circular saws. I had Makita, Black & Decker, DeWalt, Hitachi, Skil HD's, Milwaukee's and a pile of Craftsman worm drives and probably some others I have forgot. A pro quality tool is certainly a joy to use. My favorite is my Skil Mag 77. Porter cable no longer markets those pro grade saws here in the U.S.
> ...


The whole issue of pro grade tools seems irrelevant to me in this thread. Is an actual Zenoah G621AV a pro 60cc saw? It's another topic, and not at all what this was about.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 7, 2014)

rogue60 said:


> LOL dont be getting down on me was just saying what came to my mind after reading this and its nothing to do with the saw , more the ya mad to pay good money for a chainsaw ya only paying for the name lol....Sadly it's not that black and white me thinks but thats just my 2c....And Stephen C man ya not telling fibs about the circular saw's how many do you own! I count over 20!....


Hey, I'm not down on you at all. This thing is just something I'm playing with for my own interest and entertainment. I do expect that I will be able to turn it into a decent tool for my uses, in fact I believe I already have - but I'm implying nothing about it's suitability for anyone else or for pro use, nor comparing it to high end Huskies or Stihls. 

We each have to make our own decisions about what is worth spending our money on.


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## heyduke (Mar 7, 2014)

i like the old school choke/throttle controls, throttle lock on the side of the handle and simple (and separate) choke linkage. every time i pick up a stihl i have to stop, put on my reading glasses, and figure out which generation of controls i'm using and the new husky controls don't really enhance my operating experience either. also they tend to be bothersome when your servicing the saw. simple is better.. it would be nice if this saw had 70cc's and closed transfers.


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## Gologit (Mar 7, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Hey, I'm not down on you at all. This thing is just something I'm playing with for my own interest and entertainment. I do expect that I will be able to turn it into a decent tool for my uses, in fact I believe I already have - but I'm implying nothing about it's suitability for anyone else or for pro use, nor comparing it to high end Huskies or Stihls.
> 
> We each have to make our own decisions about what is worth spending our money on.


 

 Hang in there Chris. You've said basically the same thing in half a dozen different posts. Do you think that eventually some of these guys will get the point?
It's your money, your saw, and your decision on how you proceed. If you're having fun and you're learning something in the process I don't see where anybody has the right to run their mouth about something that doesn't really concern them.
Screw the ankle biters...play with your saw, enjoy yourself.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 7, 2014)

I contacted the seller and they are sending the inner bar plate out. So the $29 in bits I bought from RedMax will just be spares.


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 7, 2014)

spike60 said:


> You make some fair points Cris. We certainly seem to agree that this isn't a saw that Joe Average could just take out of the box as is and go to the woods without being seriously disappointed. And that was really my main point. Being a dealer, if I sold something with that many issues, new or used, I'd have one unhappy customer on my hands. That was primarily the perspective from which I was posting. No matter what people pay for something, they expect that it will work. And out of the box, this thing falls short of that expectation. And for $210 there are saws out there that will actually work out of the box. And the other thing that will be in that box is a warranty statement.
> 
> But as a fun project/fight the cabin fever, why not? In that sense, it's not that different from resurecting a dead saw that's been in a barn for 30 years. And you don't have any crud to clean off. And with your interest in the EQ's, taking a look at one of these 62cc saws is a logical step. I'm also a Red Max dealer and not unfamiliar with the 621 that they are basing these things on. If they would use better materials, the design is at least sound.
> 
> ...


And Chris aint hurting a soul have fun !


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 7, 2014)

roncoinc said:


> Hey Chris,,,good on ya for this one.
> 
> Seems a couple of the hard hitters with less than three weeks here seem to have it all figured out,even after never owning a chinee saw
> 
> ...


Well said


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## Chris-PA (Mar 7, 2014)

heyduke said:


> i like the old school choke/throttle controls, throttle lock on the side of the handle and simple (and separate) choke linkage. every time i pick up a stihl i have to stop, put on my reading glasses, and figure out which generation of controls i'm using and the new husky controls don't really enhance my operating experience either. also they tend to be bothersome when your servicing the saw. simple is better.. it would be nice if this saw had 70cc's and closed transfers.


It is a really simple design, with the carb bolted rigidly to the cylinder without any flexible couplings, etc. I assume that the simplicity contributes to the low weight. The choke & throttle are very simple, where you must take the choke off manually and the high-idle is a separate control. So far the thing starts quite easily and I have not even used the high-idle prop. A couple of pulls until it hits and away it goes - I usually can shut off the choke after it fires before it stalls. 

Closed transfers would be nice, but I was not even sure it has quad transfers when I got it. I think the transfer volume is a little high, but typical for the period it was designed. I wish they had continued development and made a strato version of it.


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## heyduke (Mar 8, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> It is a really simple design, with the carb bolted rigidly to the cylinder without any flexible couplings, etc. I assume that the simplicity contributes to the low weight. The choke & throttle are very simple, where you must take the choke off manually and the high-idle is a separate control. So far the thing starts quite easily and I have not even used the high-idle prop. A couple of pulls until it hits and away it goes - I usually can shut off the choke after it fires before it stalls.
> 
> Closed transfers would be nice, but I was not even sure it has quad transfers when I got it. I think the transfer volume is a little high, but typical for the period it was designed. I wish they had continued development and made a strato version of it.



yes, when you said it was a redmax clone, i thought it might be a strato. i have a husky 575 that is a great saw, kind of funny that it sounds and feels really tame but throws chips like it has an extra 10cc's. burns gas like it had 20cc's less.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 8, 2014)

heyduke said:


> yes, when you said it was a redmax clone, i thought it might be a strato. i have a husky 575 that is a great saw, kind of funny that it sounds and feels really tame but throws chips like it has an extra 10cc's. burns gas like it had 20cc's less.


I'm a big fan of strato so this thing is a bit of an aberration for me, but a 60cc strato saw is out of my range. Once I'm done playing it will be used for bigger jobs and probably felling, but the majority of my saw time will be with the GZ4000 saws. They're still my favorite and can do the vast majority of the cutting I need for firewood.

I ran it a bit today and I'm impressed with how quickly it starts, 1 or 2 pulls hot or cold usually. It feels good and has nice throttle response, and no trouble pulling the 24" bar with square ground chain. I want to try it with the 20" bar next.


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## heyduke (Mar 8, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I'm a big fan of strato so this thing is a bit of an aberration for me, but a 60cc strato saw is out of my range. Once I'm done playing it will be used for bigger jobs and probably felling, but the majority of my saw time will be with the GZ4000 saws. They're still my favorite and can do the vast majority of the cutting I need for firewood.
> 
> I ran it a bit today and I'm impressed with how quickly it starts, 1 or 2 pulls hot or cold usually. It feels good and has nice throttle response, and no trouble pulling the 24" bar with square ground chain. I want to try it with the 20" bar next.



i use two types of saws 99% of the time, a 35cc top handle and a 70cc for bigger stuff, like a husky 272 or 575. or i use bigger saws when needed. we have big cottonwoods here that occasionally call for mr. diggler, my stihl 084. i have a few saws in between the 70cc and the little climbing saws but they almost never get used. still, the redmax clone interests me. it looks like 1980s technology, which is attractive to me. did you remove the cylinder base gasket? .035" is really excessive for a squish band, but common in asian aftermarket parts. the gasket is usually .020". that would give you .015". have you managed to fit it with bucking spikes? can you tell me the distance between the inboard mounting points for spikes? they look close to a stihl 038.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 8, 2014)

The squish was originally 0.050"(!), and the gasket was only 0.017", leaving me with 0.033". I'd like it to be lower and I have access to a decent lathe at work, but it would take a fair amount of time to make the center support and cut it. I'd have to add a decomp then too - there is a boss. I'll see what I think of it over time.

It came with a spike of sorts:


In theory they are available from RedMax, as is a different clutch cover set up for an external spike for $30. I probably won't bother with that.


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## angelo c (Mar 8, 2014)

Boy this thread sounds eerily similar to about 10 thousand posts about "my cheap Chinese chainsaw chain sharpener"

Nice job keeping your cool , Chris.


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## heyduke (Mar 8, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> The squish was originally 0.050"(!), and the gasket was only 0.017", leaving me with 0.033". I'd like it to be lower and I have access to a decent lathe at work, but it would take a fair amount of time to make the center support and cut it. I'd have to add a decomp then too - there is a boss. I'll see what I think of it over time.
> 
> It came with a spike of sorts:
> View attachment 338263
> ...



that spike looks fine for a 60cc saw. 

whoa! that's a lot of squish. maybe you could find one of the botique saw builders on this site who would take another .020" off for you. however, it seems like a big change in port timing. also it's got an odd bore if i recall. was it 47.5mm? don't know if anyone would have a mandrel on the shelf. i've seen other saws run with squish bands like that. if it ain't broke...


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## Chris-PA (Mar 8, 2014)

angelo c said:


> Nice job keeping your cool , Chris.


Thanks!


heyduke said:


> whoa! that's a lot of squish. maybe you could find one of the botique saw builders on this site who would take another .020" off for you. however, it seems like a big change in port timing. also it's got an odd bore if i recall. was it 47.5mm? don't know if anyone would have a mandrel on the shelf. i've seen other saws run with squish bands like that. if it ain't broke...


Yeah, it is 47.5mm. Turning a one-time use mandrel would not be that big a deal if I want to pull it down and do it, nor would drilling and tapping it for a de-comp valve. I have trouble with raising transfers, but I could raise the exhaust on this one to account for the couple of degrees I'd lose without bothering the transfers, as it has a 19deg blowdown as it is.

But I'm going to work with it for a while first and see if I think it needs it. I don't have much to compare it with, but I'm actually quite happy with how it runs so far, and having trouble justifying all the work it would take to reduce the squish to 0.020".


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## Terry Syd (Mar 8, 2014)

As far as the transfers go, on the 029 I built with the 390 jug, I'm just going to nip a bit off the edge of the piston next to the transfer ports. I've got 25 degrees of blowdown, so I can play around a bit before I would have to look at raising the exhaust.

I've got a TS-400 piston (its slightly taller) to go into the engine, so I'm going to tweak the stock piston to see how much extra transfer timing the engine would like (if any). Then install the new piston with the best timing figures from the experiment.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 9, 2014)

rogue60 said:


> What I was trying to say was not to stop doing as you do ,but to try something out like a 359 or 261? then you would have something better to gage quality on? to say your no better off spending more on a saw because on paper this saw has AV/ a chain and even a bar and separate oil and fuel tanks ect ect on paper means nothing?..just saying and all ....Get something like said above saw's then go back and say how good the features of this saw are with opened eyes....True story even if Mr google dont think so lol....Like I said Chris PA Im not nocking any of this just saying it can be seen in a different light if one is open to it....Cheers and good luck with it all.....


Yeah, I understood - a saw like that would be neat, but it's just not in the budget. This is the most I've spent on a saw, and it likely won't happen again as I simply don't need any more saws.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 9, 2014)

Hey, this saw is not slow! I took off a low hanging 16" walnut branch that I've been wanting to get rid of for several years now, but I never seem to get it done before it leafs out and then there is more mess to clean up. I figured with the snow cover it would help keep the yard from getting so trashed too. I had to cut at a pretty high height and my shoulder is not quite recovered enough to do it with this saw, so I removed it with the ported GZ4000 clone. Then I switched to the 62cc clone with a 20" bar and some semi-chisel chain to buck it up (and the chain was probably slow as I mistakenly sharpened it at 25deg rather than 35deg). 

It really rips along nicely, it revs better than I expected (I had read that the G621 was a low rev saw) and throttle response is good. It is not peaky and has good torque. So I'm quite happy with the performance, especially as it's only had about 3 tanks through it and the rings are probably not well seated. I'd like more compression, but the port timing is good and I doubt I will mess with it further. 

Now I'm going to go fix that chain...


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## heyduke (Mar 10, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Hey, this saw is not slow! I took off a low hanging 16" walnut branch that I've been wanting to get rid of for several years now, but I never seem to get it done before it leafs out and then there is more mess to clean up. I figured with the snow cover it would help keep the yard from getting so trashed too. I had to cut at a pretty high height and my shoulder is not quite recovered enough to do it with this saw, so I removed it with the ported GZ4000 clone. Then I switched to the 62cc clone with a 20" bar and some semi-chisel chain to buck it up (and the chain was probably slow as I mistakenly sharpened it at 25deg rather than 35deg).
> 
> It really rips along nicely, it revs better than I expected (I had read that the G621 was a low rev saw) and throttle response is good. It is not peaky and has good torque. So I'm quite happy with the performance, especially as it's only had about 3 tanks through it and the rings are probably not well seated. I'd like more compression, but the port timing is good and I doubt I will mess with it further.
> 
> Now I'm going to go fix that chain...




nothing wrong with 25 degree chain. it cuts fast and stays sharp longer than 30 degree. i think the reason oregon has gone to 35 degree is to reduce the chance of kickback.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 10, 2014)

Well, I re-did it at 35deg anyway, and I saw it needed sharpening once I looked at it properly.

The seller made good on the inner bar plate, and shipped it fast too. That should reduce the bit of oil that was dripping down inside - there is certainly plenty for the bar though! The thing really oils, even when turned down to low.


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## weimedog (Mar 10, 2014)

How close are you to the Central New York area? Might be fun to have your saws at one of our GTG's


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## Chris-PA (Mar 10, 2014)

weimedog said:


> How close are you to the Central New York area? Might be fun to have your saws at one of our GTG's


I'm south of Allentown on the Eastern end of the state. My saws are entertaining for me, but they're pretty dull compared to some of the new high tech equipment out there now!


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## weimedog (Mar 10, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I'm south of Allentown on the Eastern end of the state. My saws are entertaining for me, but they're pretty dull compared to some of the new high tech equipment out there now!


 
Same here. Saws are my replacement for dirt bikes.....can split them apart on a table! (We are 2.5 hrs maybe 3 due north) Nothing hi tech about what I've been building! Scrambled together a 372 style saw out of Chinese aftermarket parts!


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## milkman (Mar 19, 2014)

Had to dig way back to find this again, any update on this monster, how's it doing? How bout a video? I've also lost the thread on the 45cc to 58cc Earthquake.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 19, 2014)

milkman said:


> Had to dig way back to find this again, any update on this monster, how's it doing? How bout a video? I've also lost the thread on the 45cc to 58cc Earthquake.


It's running great, but thanks to the weather I have not had much opportunity to cut recently. I'm hoping to take off Friday and get some time to use it - I've only run maybe 3 tanks through it. It starts quickly - 2 or 3 pulls from cold. I have a 20' bar on it at the moment with freshly sharpened loop of semi-chisel. 

I have never taken or posted a chainsaw video, nor do I have any online picture/video accounts - we'll see.


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## DexterDay (Mar 19, 2014)

I have the converted 58 cc quake. I am waiting a on a 16" .325 bar and chain set up. 

Just search Earthquake in the search box and you should find it. 


BTW-Great thread here Chris.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 23, 2014)

It was time to make the saw work today - I needed to drop this mess:


This was the tree I hung the kids swing in when we moved in, but the ash yellows have got to it and it's constantly dropping branches, some of them quite large. It's gonna trash a vehicle eventually. I took off some of those branches that I could, so as to shift the weight to the downhill side. Then I took this left one just to reduce the mass, as I could not be sure if there were vertical cracks between any of those different sections.


It came down where I wanted it to:


What a mes to clean up! I got to spend time with the 62cc clone on the bigger end:


Not going to win any races but I'm more than happy with it. This was round ground chisel as I had just dropped my square ground loop into the dirt on the cut before.


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## gmax (Mar 23, 2014)

The video is not working... "This video is private" message


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## Chris-PA (Mar 23, 2014)

gmax said:


> The video is not working... "This video is private" message


Thanks - let me see what's happening and try to fix it.

EDIT: I think it is fixed now. YouTube was not happy about my script blocker plugin and some of the settings didn't take.


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## heyduke (Mar 23, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> It was time to make the saw work today - I needed to drop this mess:
> View attachment 340763
> 
> This was the tree I hung the kids swing in when we moved in, but the ash yellows have got to it and it's constantly dropping branches, some of them quite large. It's gonna trash a vehicle eventually. I took off some of those branches that I could, so as to shift the weight to the downhill side. Then I took this left one just to reduce the mass, as I could not be sure if there were vertical cracks between any of those different sections.
> ...




looks like you lost the richmond bar and replaced it with a carlton. is it a husky pattern of mculloch? it looks like a 24" bar. what kind of chain? it's cutting very well.

ash loves to drop stuff. fire in the hole!


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## Chris-PA (Mar 24, 2014)

heyduke said:


> looks like you lost the richmond bar and replaced it with a carlton. is it a husky pattern of mculloch? it looks like a 24" bar. what kind of chain? it's cutting very well.
> 
> ash loves to drop stuff. fire in the hole!


That's a 24" Oregon Power Match bar with LGX. I still have the "Richmond" bar but have not gotten a loop to fit it yet. I will at some point as that bar is 84DL vs the 81DL on the Oregon bar, and it is about an inch longer. It's a D176 mount, which is the same as the my McCulloch SE3420 (PM065).

The ash yellows kills off the upper branches - the bottom of it looked healthy enough but parts of the top of it just exploded when it hit. I'm just going to make a fire down there or it will be hell to clean up.


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## 7sleeper (Mar 24, 2014)

Very nice!!! Thanks for the vid Chris-PA!

I have been following this thread and am truely bewildered by the arrogance of some members trying to dictate what may be accepted as a saw and what not...

7


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## heyduke (Mar 24, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> That's a 24" Oregon Power Match bar with LGX. I still have the "Richmond" bar but have not gotten a loop to fit it yet. I will at some point as that bar is 84DL vs the 81DL on the Oregon bar, and it is about an inch longer. It's a D176 mount, which is the same as the my McCulloch SE3420 (PM065).
> 
> The ash yellows kills off the upper branches - the bottom of it looked healthy enough but parts of the top of it just exploded when it hit. I'm just going to make a fire down there or it will be hell to clean up.



the bar is a major gripe i have with this saw. a twenty inch oregon bar uses a 70 dl chain instead of the usual 72. that means if you use the saw on a job you need to have an extra loop in your tool box. 

i've never heard of yellow ash, but have known ash trees to drop branches from high in the tree. we wrecked a dead monterey pine once where we had to cover the windows of the client's home with ply wood. the cones and wood went ballistic when they hit the ground.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 24, 2014)

heyduke said:


> the bar is a major gripe i have with this saw. a twenty inch oregon bar uses a 70 dl chain instead of the usual 72. that means if you use the saw on a job you need to have an extra loop in your tool box.
> 
> i've never heard of yellow ash, but have known ash trees to drop branches from high in the tree. we wrecked a dead monterey pine once where we had to cover the windows of the client's home with ply wood. the cones and wood went ballistic when they hit the ground.


Well the 70DL 20" version is standard with the older McCulloch PM6xx family and I have one of those, so for me it was OK. The major grip I had with this saw is that they sent a 0.063" bar (and loose at that) with an 0.058" chain! That's useless. 

The tree was a white ash but had ash yellows disease, which is prevalent here: http://extension.umass.edu/landscape/fact-sheets/ash-yellows . It kills the upper canopy which falls all over, and this tree was right next to the driveway where we park.


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 24, 2014)

Chris i could not seem to get any volume but she cuts really nice. Jeff


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## heyduke (Mar 24, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Well the 70DL 20" version is standard with the older McCulloch PM6xx family and I have one of those, so for me it was OK. The major grip I had with this saw is that they sent a 0.063" bar (and loose at that) with an 0.058" chain!




agreed. i measured one with my $.36 chain gauge. the chain was interesting too in that it was ground to a 5/32" radius, cut ok though.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 24, 2014)

heyduke said:


> agreed. i measured one with my $.36 chain gauge. the chain was interesting too in that it was ground to a 5/32" radius, cut ok though.
> 
> View attachment 340898


Were you able to run the chain in that bar? For me it worked OK for a few minutes, but the bar oil got very dirty as the paint wore out of the groove. After that the chain just flopped over in the groove and cut nasty arcs. I have not tried it since.

I tried to get a loop of 0.063" chain at the local Stihl dealer, but they are just a hardware store and only have what is boxed up. I will likely order a loop of chain eventually - I want semi-chisel for it.


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## heyduke (Mar 24, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Were you able to run the chain in that bar? For me it worked OK for a few minutes, but the bar oil got very dirty as the paint wore out of the groove. After that the chain just flopped over in the groove and cut nasty arcs. I have not tried it since.
> 
> I tried to get a loop of 0.063" chain at the local Stihl dealer, but they are just a hardware store and only have what is boxed up. I will likely order a loop of chain eventually - I want semi-chisel for it.



i micked th drive links. they measured about .060. so maybe i got a compatible chain. i'll have a vid up soon. i keep my chain inventory restricted to 3/8 .050, 3/8 .050 lopro and .404 .063.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 24, 2014)

heyduke said:


> i micked th drive links. they measured about .060. so maybe i got a compatible chain. i'll have a vid up soon. i keep my chain inventory restricted to 3/8 .050, 3/8 .050 lopro and .404 .063.


Hmm. I used a calipers, but the chain was right on 0.058" and the bar groove was 0.075". I do have a micrometer so I'll have to measure the drive links more accurately.


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 24, 2014)

Well I got home and on this puter I have sound and your saw sound good to me ! How many cc?


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## Chris-PA (Mar 24, 2014)

Jeff Lary said:


> Well I got home and on this puter I have sound and your saw sound good to me ! How many cc?


Oh good - I thought it was working. The saw is 62cc.


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 24, 2014)

Yea it act's like it good job !


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## Chris-PA (Mar 24, 2014)

It sounds like it is lean in the video, but it didn't when I tuned it shortly before. Of course it is pulling a 24" bar in pretty hard wood so the load was never very light. A shot with a 20" bar later:


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## BDM53ENT (Mar 25, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I'm just going to make a fire down there or it will be hell to clean up.



LOL! I guess thats one way of cleaning it up in a hurry. Good to see shes alive and kicking!


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## Chris-PA (Mar 29, 2014)

Well I got to trim up the stump and then the rain started, so I retreated to the barn to go over some chains. I took another look at the bar and chain that came with it - it's been bugging me because while the fit is sloppy, I have other worn bars that don't cut circles. I looked more closely and the chain and saw that I had clearly hit something with the side plate. I'm surprised I did not see it before. I had trouble getting a good shot:


That ring around the gullet is actually deformed inward. So this is why it cut in circles, or at least I'm betting it is. I got out the cheap grinder and cut them back, and then finished with a file and set the depth gauges. No I have to wait to see how it works. I will still buy a loop of 0.063" for it but hope to be able to use this one.


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## heyduke (Mar 29, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Well I got to trim up the stump and then the rain started, so I retreated to the barn to go over some chains. I took another look at the bar and chain that came with it - it's been bugging me because while the fit is sloppy, I have other worn bars that don't cut circles. I looked more closely and the chain and saw that I had clearly hit something with the side plate. I'm surprised I did not see it before. I had trouble getting a good shot:
> View attachment 341840
> 
> That ring around the gullet is actually deformed inward. So this is why it cut in circles, or at least I'm betting it is. I got out the cheap grinder and cut them back, and then finished with a file and set the depth gauges. No I have to wait to see how it works. I will still buy a loop of 0.063" for it but hope to be able to use this one.




the chain sent with mine was .058 while the bar was .063. the chain was ground with a 5/32 inch radius which made it self feed nicely but cut slowly. it threw a mix of fat chips and corn meal that got all over everything. i found a suitable oregon d157 24" bar in my pile of stuff and made up an 82 dl chain out of carlton. it works much better.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 30, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Not bad. The MS4018PAV sounds healthier.


They are quite different - the MS4018 likes to rev, but then it is not pulling a mostly buried full kerf 24" bar either, and has the benefit of much more advanced porting and a large air intake. 

I had read that the G621's did not like to rev much, so I was happy that it did not seem sluggish. I may still look for a bigger carb for it.


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## weimedog (Mar 30, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Someday I must pan back a bit so you can see the absolute crap hole that I work in! There is probably a pile of junk from every project I've ever worked on, with half a dozen more on top of it. When I need to get to the table saw it's like an archaeological dig. My desk at work is just the same - they gave up trying to get me to clean it up years ago.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> I am a little picky about how things fit together.  This one is not too bad now. If it holds up I may order some small bits - A/V covers and air filter cover screw, etc. - from RedMax just so it looks a little nicer. But the air filter is like $37 (  ) so I'll be making this one work!


 

"Creative Minds Are Seldom Tidy" - My mothers saying.....and gave a little sign to my OCD wife with that on it


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## weimedog (Mar 30, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Yeah that bit of marketing fluff has been around a while. The saw they tested is not a copy of any Stihl, it is clearly a RedMax G5000 clone. I suspect the original G5000 would have performed the same. Does that make it a bad saw?
> 
> Do the tests represent what you would do with a saw? If those kinds of forces were placed on the saw, what would happen to the operator? Did the added strength needed to pass those tests increase the price or weight, and would you make that tradeoff if it did?


 

As an engineer, you know design & production is slave to marketing and sales! That's a marketing and sales generated flick...


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## weimedog (Mar 30, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I was drawing out the diagram of the port timing and thought I'd stick it in here:
> View attachment 337264


 Not bad numbers! Certainly better than my Huztl! That might be a fun comparison....you 62cc Chinese saw and my Huztl Chinese build, which BTW cuts quite well.


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## weimedog (Mar 30, 2014)

spike60 said:


> Interesting and informative Chris, and thanks for sharing a closer look. But I really gotta take a couple shots at this saw. (not at you)
> 
> Guys are talking about the timing numbers here, but I'm thinking about the financial numbers. $210 to the door is really not that great of a deal for something of such dubious origin. And you've already identified so many flaws in it's brief stay that words like crap and junk are not unjustified. Right on the heals of that $210 are some costs that the typical buyer would quickly face. The hokey bar and chain will not last long, assuming the saw runs long enough to wear them out. Figure another $50 right there. The top cover wouldn't stay on, the air filter won't seal, the saw stopped oiling, the carb is suspect, and the bar and chain are borderline useless. And all for just $210. Call now, operators are standing by! Did someone say junk? Where would Joe Consumer go to get that torn oil line? The average person would not be able, or even inclined to do all the alterations that you did to make this saw somewhat usable. They would feel totally screwed and that's exactly how they should feel. The average yard sale saw wouldn't have that many issues.
> 
> All that talk of trying different, (and real), carbs is interesting from hobby/curiosity standpoint, but again, $210 for the "raw materials" for this project seems out of line for what you get. There are so many used saws that could be had for much less money, that would yield much better results.


 

Yep...he....... LOL spoken like a reputable dealer.... BUT the 543 has been shipped!


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## weimedog (Mar 30, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Simple - a 170 is a really cheaply made plastic clamshell, and chainsaws don't really cost that much to make which means that they can sell the low end ones cheap if they want to. They'll make their money on the expensive ones. And a 170 isn't a 62cc saw either.
> 
> Then again a 50cc strato engined Poulan Pro will cost you about the same as that 170 - how come that Stihl costs so much?
> 
> ...


 

Now your beginning to sound like someone who works at Mack Truck...


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## weimedog (Mar 30, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> If you've got 60" cedars then you'd be one of the few that could use an 090 for the purpose it was intended.
> 
> That's quite an investment. Even with this big $210 expenditure of disposable cash which you so obviously disapprove of (note that I do not need your approval), my saws in total are worth a tiny fraction of what you've spent. Seems quite curious to be chastised by some guy who's spent what you have. Every one of my saws is considered junk, all but 2 were used and broken. Every one runs perfectly. We heat exclusively with wood, and the house is warm and cozy, and next year some of that wood will be cut by this saw. There is really no need to feel threatened by my cheap saw, it's not going to devalue your collection.
> 
> ...


 

To those haters....bring it on! I put $250 into that Chinese Huztl build I did this winter. Bet you can't find a $400 dollar new saw option in the same league in terms of power and capability! And have to say from the pictures so far, the Huztl quality seems better than what your pics are showing. Point being not all Chi-Com stuff is junk, and as time goes on expect it to get better. We really need a Mini GTG to pick through this stuff....could be fun.

Can do a youTube video and really fire up the doubters, with the bars in full 24in engagement on hard maple with a rooster tail of chips!


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## weimedog (Mar 30, 2014)

motorman1 said:


> I get the purpose of this thread and again, I thank you. I guess I just can't wrap my head around why anyone would want to spend $200 on a 62cc saw, which has to be torn down and worked on before they're even run. You believe the saw you described, with the questionable bar and chain and poor fitting plastics and factory defective filter is really worth $200? If you didn't have the money and were in dire need of a 60cc saw, you could do a whole lot better with a used saw. And no, I don't need to actually hold or run that Chi-com POS to know that. Now, if you could get that same saw for around $40, and get someone to throw in a real bar and chain, that might be different.
> 
> My guess is if the thing is still running after it's first tank, and if the chain hasn't come apart and injured someone, you'll be spending at least another $60-$65 on a GOOD bar and chain. Making your initial investment around $275 for a tool, that according to your postings, doesn't seem very capable, unless of course, you only intended to start it up a couple of times in the garage. Again, If it was only $40, or so, different story.
> 
> BTW, the AM parts I have had to clean up were being put on "dead" saws, not new ones like yours.


 

I get the point....saw puzzles. Mechanical puzzles. Some folks do things like RC cars, other restore old motorcycles, the more well heeled; airplanes! I my case "saw puzzles" save me around $4000 a year in oil! My wife finally gets it. PLUS especially for an engineer, after a while the SOSDD syndrome hits, and there have to be other ways to channel that creative urge..... back to the mechanical hobby's.

(SOSDD= Same Old Chit Different Day)


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## weimedog (Mar 30, 2014)

Terry Syd said:


> Yeah, a lot of the old guys left the forum because of this type of crap. I don't remember guys like Timberwolf ever working on a Chinese saw, but he still took the same kind of ignorant BS whether he was working on a Stihl or Husky. I can understand why he and others left. - A bloke takes the time and effort to try to expand the information base, and then you get morons with 'adequacy issues' that try and down grade it with pathetic snipes from their keyboard.
> 
> Thanks Chris for your contribution to the forum, it makes up for some of the others that are incapable of contributing.


 
Bingo and well said.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 30, 2014)

weimedog said:


> I get the point....saw puzzles. Mechanical puzzles. Some folks do things like RC cars, other restore old motorcycles, the more well heeled; airplanes! I my case "saw puzzles" save me around $4000 a year in oil! My wife finally gets it. PLUS especially for an engineer, after a while the SOSDD syndrome hits, and there have to be other ways to channel that creative urge..... back to the mechanical hobby's.
> 
> (SOSDD= Same Old Chit Different Day)


Yup, you gotta do something different sometimes!


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## Chris-PA (Mar 30, 2014)

So there was a brief break in the torrential rains this morning, enough for me to go out and try a cut with the repaired chain. It cut straight and true, so I was happy. Then I looked at the side plates of the cutters and found the damage was back! I had not hit anything, and it was only one cut. The damage is on the cutters on the inside, so I was suspicious it was hitting something. The wear pattern here is a clue:


You can see how the cutters have been dragging on the drive sprocket. The question was why? Ultimately I decided it was due to three things:

The sloppy bar groove/driver fit allowed the cutters to move around too much.
There was not enough clearance to the face of the drive sprocket
It turned out the left hand threaded nut that holds the sprocket on was threaded at an angle, so that when it was tightened down the inner surface was at an angle. That allowed the washer to sit at an angle, and the drive rim too.
So I made a shim out of 0.032" fiberglass to try spacing out the drive rim:


I will look for a way to make one out of better material, but it should hold up for a bit. There is still more than 0.040" clearance. Then I filed the inner surface of the nut to reduce the angle (I don't have any other left hand nuts at the moment). With all of that it appears to have good clearance between the inner cutters and the drive sprocket now:



Of course I had to work over the chain again. It is possible that the downpours have stopped for a bit, so I may go try it out.

EDIT: That seems to have fixed it. The chain cut quite nicely actually. Before I order a 0.063" chain I want to see how this one works. I'm trying to decide whether to get skip or full comp, and this is full comp semi chisel on a 25" bar.


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## heyduke (Mar 31, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> So there was a brief break in the torrential rains this morning, enough for me to go out and try a cut with the repaired chain. It cut straight and true, so I was happy. Then I looked at the side plates of the cutters and found the damage was back! I had not hit anything, and it was only one cut. The damage is on the cutters on the inside, so I was suspicious it was hitting something. The wear pattern here is a clue:
> View attachment 342030
> 
> You can see how the cutters have been dragging on the drive sprocket. The question was why? Ultimately I decided it was due to three things:
> ...



i wonder how hard it would be to fine a new nut. would that solve the problem?


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## Chris-PA (Mar 31, 2014)

heyduke said:


> i wonder how hard it would be to fine a new nut. would that solve the problem?


Not hard at all - I ordered a couple. The one I tweaked seems to work fine now though, so I will save it for the next time I do maintenance. I'm looking forward to running it more now with this bar and chain combination, as I liked how it cut for the short amount of time I got to put on it yesterday.


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## HarveyCat (Apr 11, 2014)

Thanks for this thread -- and for this great website! Ok, so I ordered one of these 24" Clones for $209 delivered -- it works great -- my only real problem is that when cutting with this chainsaw on its one side (with a half tank of gas) it just dies straight away -- but the funny thing is -- it is fine when turned on its other side. I have a lot to cut this weekend (still some Sandy trees) -- and advice would really help -- I am going to try it with a full tank of gas in the morning and see if that works. Oh and by the way -- this thing does use a lot of gas -- I never ran a 62cc is that normal? Runs great though!

I saw this thread -- with some good things to test for...
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/chainsaw-stalls-when-turned-sideways.123933/


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## zogger (Apr 11, 2014)

HarveyCat said:


> Thanks for this thread -- and for this great website! Ok, so I ordered one of these 24" Clones for $209 delivered -- it works great -- my only real problem is that when cutting with this chainsaw on its one side (with a half tank of gas) it just dies straight away -- but the funny thing is -- it is fine when turned on its other side. I have a lot to cut this weekend (still some Sandy trees) -- and advice would really help -- I am going to try it with a full tank of gas in the morning and see if that works. Oh and by the way -- this thing does use a lot of gas -- I never ran a 62cc is that normal? Runs great though!
> 
> I saw this thread -- with some good things to test for...
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/chainsaw-stalls-when-turned-sideways.123933/



Did you check the fuel line and filter when it was empty? Does it fall and go to the bottom easily whichever way you hold the saw?


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## HarveyCat (Apr 11, 2014)

Thanks for the advice! I didn't check to see if the fuel line & filter moved freely in both directions (without fuel) -- but I will check it first thing in the morning -- it does run great when it is either straight up -- or on one of its two sides.... just not the other side. If I do find that it only falls one of the 2 ways -- what is the fix? I did get a new universal fuel line (see link) - but not really sure it will work for this saw.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Power-Care-1-ft-Universal-Fuel-Line-Kit-490-240-H010/203381015


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## Chris-PA (Apr 11, 2014)

Zogger's guess sounds like the best explanation. Sometimes the fuel line is actually too long and the filter is held up in the wrong position. Just take a peak in the tank and see where it is - what to do about it will depend on what is happening. 

I have not found mine to use too much fuel - it certainly uses more than my strato 40cc, but that is to be expected. That is a 25" bar on it.


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## HarveyCat (Apr 12, 2014)

Thanks for this thread -- it got me take a chance on getting one of these -- I have a lot of smaller saws that really just weren't up to some of these bigger old trees that died with Sandy. Thanks also Zogger for the advice! Ok -- so if the fuel line is too long (or too short) what can I do to adjust it -- change it? Do I need to take it apart? Do I need needle-nose pliers to get into the tank to make it longer? Any tips or advice -- or links to a thread on here would be very helpful.


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## 7sleeper (Apr 12, 2014)

Too short => refill more often or replace with a new fuel line
Too long => cut shorter

7


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## Chris-PA (Apr 12, 2014)

HarveyCat said:


> Thanks for this thread -- it got me take a chance on getting one of these -- I have a lot of smaller saws that really just weren't up to some of these bigger old trees that died with Sandy. Thanks also Zogger for the advice! Ok -- so if the fuel line is too long (or too short) what can I do to adjust it -- change it? Do I need to take it apart? Do I need needle-nose pliers to get into the tank to make it longer? Any tips or advice -- or links to a thread on here would be very helpful.


I hope it works well for you - there may be various issues you'll need to deal with on it. For fuel line a pair of forceps is very useful, but you should be able to get to the line with needle nose pliers or even a wire with a hook bent onto the end.


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## heyduke (Apr 12, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Zogger's guess sounds like the best explanation. Sometimes the fuel line is actually too long and the filter is held up in the wrong position. Just take a peak in the tank and see where it is - what to do about it will depend on what is happening.
> 
> I have not found mine to use too much fuel - it certainly uses more than my strato 40cc, but that is to be expected. That is a 25" bar on it.



if the saw is using too much fuel, it may be due to a leaky cap. the plastic in theses saws is of marginal quality.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 12, 2014)

Something to be aware of - In addition to clearly being an 0.063" bar, the bar that comes with these also appears to be a D009 mount instead of the D176 required. They are very similar, the main difference being the 9mm slot vs. a 8mm slot in the D176. This makes it fit imprecisely in terms of vertical location and angle. I made up a quick spring steel spacer, which I'll probably make a port about, and it fits nicely now. Still, the bar & chain are the worst part of this deal.


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## heyduke (Apr 12, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Something to be aware of - In addition to clearly being an 0.063" bar, the bar that comes with these also appears to be a D009 mount instead of the D176 required. They are very similar, the main difference being the 9mm slot vs. a 8mm slot in the D176. This makes it fit imprecisely in terms of vertical location and angle. I made up a quick spring steel spacer, which I'll probably make a port about, and it fits nicely now. Still, the bar & chain are the worst part of this deal.



chris-

i' tries mounting my richmond bar on a husky but the slot is too small. i measured it with vernier calipers and it was a sloppy 8mm if my memory is correct. i did try running a husky 009 mount on the richmond but it wouldn't oil correctly. i'm thinking of making an adapter that would let me mount an 025 stihl bar. it would be easier to cook up than an adapter with .5mm shims. and there are some inexpensive 025 bars on the market.

question, have you solved the problem with the air cleaner? mine sucks fine saw dust from below the "silencer" plate right into the intake stack. i've thought about removing the silencer plate so that the filter and stack would have a deeper interface but i think the filter would have to be cleaned frequently with no barrier to block loose debris from the filter area. this afternoon i just gave up and sealed the silencer plate to the stack and the filter to both with silicone compound. i'll run it in wood tomorrow to see if it solved the problem.

regarding high fuel usage, i'm sure it's a leaky cap. i've had trouble with both mix and oil. the plastic has a lot of imperfections . some can be cleaned up by careful use of a sharp utility knife but the gaskets are crap. today i found that the fuel cap from a husky 575 is a good fit and will seat with adequate torque.

one other thing, throw out the tach when tuning. use the po' man's dyno, an 18" > round. start too rich and lean until you have good power. mine likes to run close to 12k rpm, not the 11k found in redmax specs.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 12, 2014)

heyduke said:


> chris-
> 
> i' tries mounting my richmond bar on a husky but the slot is too small. i measured it with vernier calipers and it was a sloppy 8mm if my memory is correct. i did try running a husky 009 mount on the richmond but it wouldn't oil correctly. i'm thinking of making an adapter that would let me mount an 025 stihl bar. it would be easier to cook up than an adapter with .5mm shims. and there are some inexpensive 025 bars on the market.
> 
> ...


Well, I was actually guessing that it was a D009, but mine did measure a good 9mm on the slot. I made an adapter using the strip of stainless steel out of an old windshield wiper (yes, I always save those, they've been very useful). I heated it with a propane torch and bent it around a bolt:


I would have made an S shape but the bar plate retaining bolt was in the way:


It was just a little too thick so I thinned it with a flat file. It worked nicely:


I was happy with it, and the chain cut great. Then I rocked it. Bad. The cutters are shorter now!

I'm getting some fines in around the filter mounting surface too. I made an aluminum tube to fit around the cover stud and inside the filter hole to serve as a positive stop, thinking the filter may have been getting distorted, and that helped a little (it is slightly sorter than the filter to keep pressure on the bottom seal). I tried smearing Yamabond on the surface, but that was not tough enough. I may just use grease next. It's not really bad actually, but I want to stop it. 

I put a 20" bar on it today with a fresh loop of non-safety chisel, and the thing really rips. It revs much better than I thought it would. I do not have a tach, so I always tune by ear - my saw does have modified intake timing, so stock rpm numbers would not really be valid anyway.

I made my own seal for the oil tank out of some rubber stock I have around as the stock one was too small diameter to seal, and it works OK. I also found that a Ryobi 10532 gas cap would fit this oil tank. Luckily my fuel cap is sealing well.


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## HarveyCat (Apr 13, 2014)

7sleeper said:


> Too short => refill more often or replace with a new fuel line
> Too long => cut shorter
> 
> 7


Sure that sounds very simple -- but I am no expert -- the fuel line was in fact too long -- I pulled it out through fill hole --snipped it back as far as I could and then replaced the fuel filter -- but it is still too long -- and it does not flip back and forth freely -- so I ended up with it placed in the middle. I had a crew of really expert tree climbers and cutters yesterday and they had husqvarna saws (even a 24" one -- but they wanted to try this saw out -- sadly after just a few moments it died -- their take was that too much oil was getting to the muffler (whatever that means) -- and I think they really just wanted to use their $800 saws -- but at lunchtime they tinkered again with it -- couldn't stay away -- I am worried they might have flooded it -- but they are the pros -- at the end of they day I gave it a last try and it almost started...

Next weekend I might be on my own -- so any advice about how to adjust this from this point on -- and the best way to replace -- or to shorten the fuel line would be great. I must say that the workers saws were all far nicer -- the plastic was really top grade -- not my Richmond's flimsy type -- but they are full time pros and the best climbers I have ever seen. We took down 3 large old Maples and much of an Oak tree -- and would have been great to have had this saw was up and running too. Thanks for all the help.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 13, 2014)

I would not shorten the line any more until you can get it running and see how it works. I'll try to check mine and let you know where the H and L screws are set at - that should at least be a good starting point. Unfortunately, guys who use saws for a living are not necessarily knowledgeable about how to tune a saw, and they will not know this saw or probably the G621 it is based on. "Too much oil getting to the muffler" probably just means it is too rich. 

I'm sure you will get it running and it will be useful for you, but I did try to be clear that these saws should be considered as a "kit", and may need disassembly, clean up and careful reassembly.


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## HarveyCat (Apr 13, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I would not shorten the line any more until you can get it running and see how it works. I'll try to check mine and let you know where the H and L screws are set at - that should at least be a good starting point. Unfortunately, guys who use saws for a living are not necessarily knowledgeable about how to tune a saw, and they will not know this saw or probably the G621 it is based on. "Too much oil getting to the muffler" probably just means it is too rich.
> 
> I'm sure you will get it running and it will be useful for you, but I did try to be clear that these saws should be considered as a "kit", and may need disassembly, clean up and careful reassembly.



Thanks! Yes, that you did say! ...but I really needed a 24" saw and I am on a 18" budget -- I will not use it often -- I wanted to rent one and there are none for rent in the NYC area (that I could find) almost bought a 22" from Home Depot (special order) -- I do think this will work out -- I have an acre and a half with lots of trees -- and this should (if it gets going) serve me well -- I might even listen to you and open it up at some point -- but that might be a while.


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## heyduke (Apr 13, 2014)

if your saw quit working on the job, i'd recommend that you inspect the air intake/filter system. mine is piss-poor. below is a picture taken after running about a third of a tank. bear in mind that this is after i calked the "silencer" plate below the filter and calked the filter to the silencer plate. i saw no evidence of my calked joints leaking. so, i'm thinking the the filter itself is passing debris thru its "clamshell" joints. there is actually significantly more debris inside the intake stack that there is on the outside of the filter. that means that little air is passing thru the filter medium but is entering thru leaky joints. this is a brand new filter. the saw arrived with a damaged filter assembly, due to misalignment of the filter cover to the carb. i have calked the clam shell together with more silicone compound and will do the silencer plate again and reassemble. its a pain.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 13, 2014)

HarveyCat said:


> Thanks! Yes, that you did say! ...but I really needed a 24" saw and I am on a 18" budget -- I will not use it often -- I wanted to rent one and there are none for rent in the NYC area (that I could find) almost bought a 22" from Home Depot (special order) -- I do think this will work out -- I have an acre and a half with lots of trees -- and this should (if it gets going) serve me well -- I might even listen to you and open it up at some point -- but that might be a while.


Ok, mine is set with the H at exactly 2T and the L at 1 T


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## Chris-PA (Apr 13, 2014)

heyduke said:


> if your saw quit working on the job, i'd recommend that you inspect the air intake/filter system. mine is piss-poor. below is a picture taken after running about a third of a tank. bear in mind that this is after i calked the "silencer" plate below the filter and calked the filter to the silencer plate. i saw no evidence of my calked joints leaking. so, i'm thinking the the filter itself is passing debris thru its "clamshell" joints. there is actually significantly more debris inside the intake stack that there is on the outside of the filter. that means that little air is passing thru the filter medium but is entering thru leaky joints. this is a brand new filter. the saw arrived with a damaged filter assembly, due to misalignment of the filter cover to the carb. i have calked the clam shell together with more silicone compound and will do the silencer plate again and reassemble. its a pain.
> 
> 
> View attachment 344261


Eww! Mine is nowhere near that bad. I cleaned up the filter plastic with an X-acto and sealed the filter halves with Yamabond early on though. I've had other saws that let in as many fines as mine does.


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## HarveyCat (Apr 13, 2014)

heyduke said:


> if your saw quit working on the job, i'd recommend that you inspect the air intake/filter system. mine is piss-poor. below is a picture taken after running about a third of a tank. bear in mind that this is after i calked the "silencer" plate below the filter and calked the filter to the silencer plate. i saw no evidence of my calked joints leaking. so, i'm thinking the the filter itself is passing debris thru its "clamshell" joints. there is actually significantly more debris inside the intake stack that there is on the outside of the filter. that means that little air is passing thru the filter medium but is entering thru leaky joints. this is a brand new filter. the saw arrived with a damaged filter assembly, due to misalignment of the filter cover to the carb. i have calked the clam shell together with more silicone compound and will do the silencer plate again and reassemble. its a pain.
> 
> 
> View attachment 344261



Surprisingly my G621 Richmond/Poormond clone's air filter has yet to be letting any saw dust get through into the carb -- but I have only cut one 18" piece of maple with it (the only cut ever) -- and the saw dust all ended up in one little place on the filter (but on the correct side of the air filter) -- it was all in a round circle about the size of a quarter -- is that normal? The rest of the filter looked very clean. If I get it going I will keep an eye -- but it all seems fairly tight from the factory -- and as is obvious it is the least of my current troubles..


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## HarveyCat (Apr 13, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Ok, mine is set with the H at exactly 2T and the L at 1 T



*Thanks very much Chris! (and everyone else too) Chris -- hate to ask -- but I don't know what 2T and 1T really mean -- any chance I can get a picture -- or just some "Chainsaw for Dummies" description? Again -- I don't have my chainsaw here it is down on that property still. Also any threads that you can recommend on how to fine tune this carb?

To add insult to injury -- here is a link to the RedMax G621 manual online (click below)*

http://www.redmax.com/ddoc/RMXO/RMXO2007_USen/RMXO2007_USen_G621AVS_.pdf







*=========================*
*ALSO*

*In this manual is a picture of a hook removing the fuel filter -- my fuel line is not much longer than that... but it is stuck in the middle so maybe a hair more needs to be taken -- or perhaps the line is too hard and inflexible...*
*=========================*


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## Chris-PA (Apr 13, 2014)

HarveyCat said:


> Thanks very much Chris! (and everyone else too) Chris -- hate to ask -- but any chance I can get a picture? Also any threads that you can recommend on how to fine tune this carb?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The first thing to do is set the L (the H doesn't do anything at idle, but set it at 1-1/2 turns). But to do the you will need to get it to fire. There are no limiters on these. I'd set the L at maybe 1-1/4 turns from gently seated, maybe clean the plug and try to get it to fire. 

Once it fires then you want the L set just on the rich side of max idle speed ( rich is counter clockwise).

If you get it to idle then you want the H set so you can just hear a misfire when you lift, but but smooths out under load.


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## HarveyCat (Apr 13, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> The first thing to do is set the L (the H doesn't do anything at idle, but set it at 1-1/2 turns). But to do the you will need to get it to fire. There are no limiters on these. I'd set the L at maybe 1-1/4 turns from gently seated, maybe clean the plug and try to get it to fire.
> 
> Once it fires then you want the L set just on the rich side of max idle speed ( rich is counter clockwise).
> 
> If you get it to idle then you want the H set so you can just hear a misfire when you lift, but but smooths out under load.



*Very kind of you Chris -- Cheers! OK...one last question -- is the fuel line used in these clones any stiffer / less flexible than in most other branded saws? Will it soften up with fuel -- or is it likely just that mine is still a little too long -- it stays stuck in the middle when placed there.*


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## Chris-PA (Apr 13, 2014)

HarveyCat said:


> *Very kind of you Chris -- Cheers! OK...one last question -- is the fuel line used in these clones any stiffer / less flexible than in most other branded saws? Will it soften up with fuel -- or is it likely just that mine is still a little too long -- it stays stuck in the middle when placed there.*


I have not noticed that it is appreciably different from other line I've worked with. With fuel in there and the saw moving around it may not be as stuck as it seems.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 13, 2014)

BTW - I looked at the line in my tank, and the filter is sitting towards the fill cap. I have not had any issues running it, but then I seldom hold it starter side down either (I find it uncomfortable).


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## heyduke (Apr 16, 2014)

The fun never stops. I was looking over the Richmond, wishing it would oil just a little better. I noticed that the fat part of the arrow pointed to MIN and the skinny end pointed at MAX, odd. I looked in the Redmax User manual and found that the control is indeed labled backasswards, what a hoot.


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## heyduke (Apr 16, 2014)

heyduke said:


> The fun never stops. I was looking over the Richmond, wishing it would oil just a little better. I noticed that the fat part of the arrow pointed to MIN and the skinny end pointed at MAX, odd. I looked in the Redmax User manual and found that the control is indeed labled backasswards, what a hoot.
> 
> 
> here's the illustration from the owners manual


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## Chris-PA (Apr 16, 2014)

heyduke said:


> The fun never stops. I was looking over the Richmond, wishing it would oil just a little better. I noticed that the fat part of the arrow pointed to MIN and the skinny end pointed at MAX, odd. I looked in the Redmax User manual and found that the control is indeed labled backasswards, what a hoot.
> 
> 
> View attachment 344703


OK, that is by far the funniest thing on this saw yet! I didn't notice, but then I have it set right in the middle. I guess I'll remember that the symbol is right and the text is wrong, since the people who did it could not read the text! Then again, it's a Japanese designed saw and _they_ got it right.......


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## heyduke (Apr 16, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> OK, that is by far the funniest thing on this saw yet! I didn't notice, but then I have it set right in the middle. I guess I'll remember that the symbol is right and the text is wrong, since the people who did it could not read the text! Then again, it's a Japanese designed saw and _they_ got it right.......



yeah, when i get time, i'll check to see if that knob is really connected to anything...


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## Chris-PA (Apr 16, 2014)

heyduke said:


> yeah, when i get time, i'll check to see if that knob is really connected to anything...


Oh, it is - I've had it apart down to that level when I had the jug off. I do like having the knob on top - especially now that I know which way to turn it!


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## heyduke (Apr 16, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Oh, it is - I've had it apart down to that level when I had the jug off. I do like having the knob on top - especially now that I know which way to turn it!



i've had the clutch off but didn't remove the cover over the oil pump. 

when i got the saw i turned the knob to wfo since i like plenty of oil but ever since then i've been stressing, thinking that the pump was failing.


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## HarveyCat (Apr 18, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> BTW - I looked at the line in my tank, and the filter is sitting towards the fill cap. I have not had any issues running it, but then I seldom hold it starter side down either (I find it uncomfortable).



If the fuel filter is always up towards the fill cap -- and you never turn it with the fuel cap towards the ground -- do you find you need to keep it topped off when cutting on it's side (fuel cap upwards) -- or am I reading you wrong about which way is up? 

Gonna give it another go tomorrow -- funny about the oiler!


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## Chris-PA (Apr 18, 2014)

HarveyCat said:


> If the fuel filter is always up towards the fill cap -- and you never turn it with the fuel cap towards the ground -- do you find you need to keep it topped off when cutting on it's side (fuel cap upwards) -- or am I reading you wrong about which way is up?
> 
> Gonna give it another go tomorrow -- funny about the oiler!


Lol. No you're not confused, but clearly I am! 

I will look inside again and see where the line sits or if it seems to flop around. I have not had problems with it cutting out while on its side, but maybe I never ran it long enough in that orientation.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 18, 2014)

So I looked in the tank and the filter sat near the opening. You'd think that would cause a problem but I didn't notice anything. I pushed it down to the bottom, reinstalled the cap and turned all around and shook it good - the filter stayed at the bottom. I probably should remove an inch or so of line.


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## HarveyCat (Apr 18, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> So I looked in the tank and the filter sat near the opening. You'd think that would cause a problem but I didn't notice anything. I pushed it down to the bottom, reinstalled the cap and turned all around and shook it good - the filter stayed at the bottom. I probably should remove an inch or so of line.


Thanks! I did remove an inch -- it is like brain surgery through the fill opening. I used needlenose pliers and pulled it pretty hard then clipped it off and replaced fuel filter -- I hope this didn't cause my problem with getting it running -- I hope the line isn't kinked where it goes into the tank somehow. Even after I shortened it an inch -- it still just stays right wherever I place it -- it is still a tad long -- but at the moment this is the least of my problems --but after I get it going I will play with trying to free this also.


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## HarveyCat (Apr 19, 2014)

Ok another failed day -- first the gas tank cap gasket failed -- I ended up replacing it with a plumbing gasket -- and I was able to get it goin -- babying it with the trigger -- but after a minute whitish smoke started to come out of the engine -- not out of the muffler -- and this part (see above) turned Blue and multi colors -- and would burn your finger if you touched it! So what gives?


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## heyduke (Apr 20, 2014)

HarveyCat said:


> Ok another failed day -- first the gas tank cap gasket failed -- I ended up replacing it with a plumbing gasket -- and I was able to get it goin -- babying it with the trigger -- but after a minute whitish smoke started to come out of the engine -- not out of the muffler -- and this part (see above) turned Blue and multi colors -- and would burn your finger if you touched it! So what gives?



You've got a problem with the clutch. you need to remove the clutch drum, needle bearing and clutch rotor to analyze the problem. You're most of the way there but you need to first remove the starter assembly so you don't damage it while reassembling the clutch. Then use a piston stop (an old piece of starter rope works well, just stuff it into the spark plug hole.) Then. remove the clutch nut on the end of the crankshaft. It has left hand threads so you must turn it clockwise to loosen it. Pull the clutch drum and sprocket rim off the crank shaft. and then the clutch rotor. You should be able to find the problem. When you replace the clutch bearing lubricate it with grease. They probably failed to do that at the factory.Take pictures. 

Regarding the fuel cap, husqvarna has some caps that will work. I like the fuel cap from a 575. The stock caps and gaskets are sketchy. Replace them and you'll find you use less fuel.


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## LegDeLimber (Apr 20, 2014)

??Funny how it only got hot enough to tint blue on one side of the drum.
Is the drum somehow not not centered over the shoes and spider or was something able to pull that much heat away from the un-blued side?
Is one shoe dragging and hot then it sat there and dumped all of its heat into the drum after the saw was stopped?
Was it run with the brake on and the clutch spring is sagged now
and letting one shoe hang a bit wide?


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## heyduke (Apr 20, 2014)

LegDeLimber said:


> ??Funny how it only got hot enough to tint blue on one side of the drum.
> Is the drum somehow not not centered over the shoes and spider or was something able to pull that much heat away from the un-blued side?
> Is one shoe dragging and hot then it sat there and dumped all of its heat into the drum after the saw was stopped?
> Was it run with the brake on and the clutch spring is sagged now
> and letting one shoe hang a bit wide?



i suspect a clutch needle bearing failure, but i can't troubleshoot remotely. he needs to get it apart and use his eyes and brain. it uses a "garter" style spring so its unlikey that one shoe would be dragging and even so, that wouldn't cause the weird discoloration. my guess is that the needle bearing failed and the clutch drum is jambed at an angle to the crankshaft causing the rotor to rub on one part of the drum, just a guess.


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## LegDeLimber (Apr 20, 2014)

Yeah the shell does lose the hot spot where it curves away from the shoe area.
I can imagine a bearing problem could let the drum sit crooked.
But yet that wildthing that i grabbed off of C'list did have a pretty puckered garter spring 
(was run w/brake on, to meltdown of plastics)
Hopefully we'll get to see some sharp pics.

Can ya tell that I'm thumb twiddling while waiting on diagnostics to run on a second hand laptop
with undetermined power issues ?
So I'm looking at anything and may just be thinking too much.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 20, 2014)

heyduke said:


> You've got a problem with the clutch. you need to remove the clutch drum, needle bearing and clutch rotor to analyze the problem. You're most of the way there but you need to first remove the starter assembly so you don't damage it while reassembling the clutch. Then use a piston stop (an old piece of starter rope works well, just stuff it into the spark plug hole.) Then. remove the clutch nut on the end of the crankshaft. It has left hand threads so you must turn it clockwise to loosen it. Pull the clutch drum and sprocket rim off the crank shaft. and then the clutch rotor. You should be able to find the problem. When you replace the clutch bearing lubricate it with grease. They probably failed to do that at the factory.Take pictures.
> 
> Regarding the fuel cap, husqvarna has some caps that will work. I like the fuel cap from a 575. The stock caps and gaskets are sketchy. Replace them and you'll find you use less fuel.


I think that's good advice. I did have the drive sprocket off mine, and there wasn't much grease (I won't say none as I'm not sure, but it seemed pretty dry).

Also, how high is the idle? Maybe if the idle was just high enough to start the clutch to engage, but the chain could not move (brake on, bar groove packed up with junk, etc.), the shoes were hitting on a high spot on the drum. That would heat it unevenly.


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## HarveyCat (Apr 20, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I think that's good advice. I did have the drive sprocket off mine, and there wasn't much grease (I won't say none as I'm not sure, but it seemed pretty dry).
> 
> Also, how high is the idle? Maybe if the idle was just high enough to start the clutch to engage, but the chain could not move (brake on, bar groove packed up with junk, etc.), the shoes were hitting on a high spot on the drum. That would heat it unevenly.



Thanks all -- I will look into the idle setting -- when I get the saw back in my hands -- that will be a few days but I will report back. It has been a bear -- we still could not get it running on it's own without triggering it ---- the seller has been pretty helpful so far -- though now he thinks the brake was on because of the photo I have shown here --- but keep in mind that the photo was taken after it smoked up, got real hot and changed colors -- to shut it down the the brake was used and kill switch turned off -- but it could well be that the idle adjustments are still way off -- I will get back here with news & photos next week...


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## HarveyCat (Apr 22, 2014)

Chris (or any fellow owners) -- any advice about setting the (T) idle control would be great! Which way would you turn it now -- how much at a time? This time we will keep an eye on the chain wheel -- no cover!


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## Chris-PA (Apr 22, 2014)

The idle setting is just a throttle stop, nothing magic about it. Once you have the L mixture set pretty close, you just set the T so that the chain does not move at idle. You turn it in (CW) to raise the idle, an out (CCW) to lower it.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 22, 2014)

I had to take today off to remove a counter top, but once I got that done I was free to play and I took the Chinasaw out. It ran great, but after a bit I noticed that there was just a hint of damage to the side plate of two cutters on the inside. This was with a 20" 0.050" bar and proper chain, not the B&C that came with it. With all my messing with shims and whatnot it was still brushing the cutters on the clutch drum. So I removed the cover and attached the bar with some big nuts so I could look at the alignment. It turned out that entire clutch drum and spur was sitting way too far outboard.

I pulled the drum to figure out what positioned it out so far, and it clearly is positioned by the clutch behind it. So I stared at it for a while, looked at the IPL - and then it finally dawned on me. *THE CLUTCH WAS ON BACKWARDS!*

Like this:


Rather than like this:


DOH! I'm not used to this saw design or I might have noticed it before. Or not. It is not symmetrical, and this was forcing the drum outboard and causing the whole problem. 

So that meant I needed a clutch tool, which I had not got around to ordering, so I needed to make one. Take one old Poulan drive sprocket, remove the flange, drill some holes, add some bolts:




It all fits properly now, and that should finally fix the issue for real. Of course, I've lost most of the cutter length on the chain that came with it (OK, I did hit a rock bad once too).


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## HarveyCat (Apr 23, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> ...I pulled the drum to figure out what positioned it out so far, and it clearly is positioned by the clutch behind it. So I stared at it for a while, looked at the IPL - and then it finally dawned on me. *THE CLUTCH WAS ON BACKWARDS!*


 Nice work Chris -- should I check mine? Is there an easy way to tell?


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## Chris-PA (Apr 23, 2014)

HarveyCat said:


> Nice work Chris -- should I check mine? Is there an easy way to tell?


Just bolt the bar on with no chain or clutch cover (use some large nuts as spacers). Then sight down the bar groove and see if the rim is properly aligned with the groove. If it is you are probably OK.

Mine had a missing inner bar plate and a clutch on backwards - must have been the end of the shift or maybe the first day on the job.


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## HarveyCat (Apr 23, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Just bolt the bar on with no chain or clutch cover (use some large nuts as spacers). Then sight down the bar groove and see if the rim is properly aligned with the groove. If it is you are probably OK.
> 
> Mine had a missing inner bar plate and a clutch on backwards - must have been the end of the shift or maybe the first day on the job.



...or sadly -- the child putting these together needed a nap. Thanks again for the help!


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## milkman (Apr 23, 2014)

HarveyCat said:


> ...or sadly -- the child putting these together needed a nap. Thanks again for the help!



I guess Husky fired the child that put my saw together and he went to work at Earthquake. I bought a new 346XP, I think it was '09 and the first time I had the side cover off, I saw that the clutch was on backward, glad Husky got rid of that loser.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 26, 2014)

I got to run the saw for a bit today, and there is no more issue with the cutters rubbing the clutch drum now with the clutch properly installed.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 27, 2014)

The end of the Diokio chain. Both ends, actually:


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## Chris-PA (Apr 27, 2014)

By the way - I do appreciate whoever cleaned up the thread.


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## HarveyCat (May 4, 2014)

Thanks -- I have mine up and running -- seemed to run fine with the chain and bar on. Started right up adjusted the carb a bit. Will finally cut some trees this coming week. haha 

BTW would an aftermarket gas cap be a bad idea? Here are some cheap -- there are a few models -- any advice -- mine seems leak free now -- I used a plumbing washer to seal it -- but would like backup -- click link below for caps

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171151089345


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## Chris-PA (May 4, 2014)

HarveyCat said:


> Thanks -- I have mine up and running -- seemed to run fine with the chain and bar on. Started right up adjusted the carb a bit. Will finally cut some trees this coming week. haha
> 
> BTW would an aftermarket gas cap be a bad idea? Here are some cheap -- there are a few models -- any advice -- mine seems leak free now -- I used a plumbing washer to seal it -- but would like backup -- click link below for caps
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/171151089345


Cool! I hope it works well for you. Now that I have mine sorted out I'm quite happy with it. It's no fuss to start and use, and it pulls a 24" bar quite well. With a 20" it really goes! Everything is working as it should, including the oiler and air filter. It certainly has no problem oiling a 24" bar, and I'm keeping it set at about 1/2. It's nice having the knob on the top cover. 

I can't tell if that cap would fit or not. I've been looking at a pack of caps sold at HD for about $7 that look pretty close. I'm sure they are for a Homelite or something, but I may take a risk on them.


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## zogger (May 4, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Cool! I hope it works well for you. Now that I have mine sorted out I'm quite happy with it. It's no fuss to start and use, and it pulls a 24" bar quite well. With a 20" it really goes! Everything is working as it should, including the oiler and air filter. It certainly has no problem oiling a 24" bar, and I'm keeping it set at about 1/2. It's nice having the knob on the top cover.
> 
> I can't tell if that cap would fit or not. I've been looking at a pack of caps sold at HD for about $7 that look pretty close. I'm sure they are for a Homelite or something, but I may take a risk on them.




Just tote the saw in empty and ask the stock dude in that department if you could (he could) carefully open the package and try one. If it fits, buy it, if it doesn't, they can tape or staple the package back up.


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## HarveyCat (May 4, 2014)

And if all else fails -- you can get one of these rubber toilet flappers -- the round adapter that can be removed with a knife from between the two rubber arms -- fits right on your leaking Richmond Chainsaw's leaking cap-- and no more leaks! Most Home Depots only sell these in 3 packs -- single ones can be found for $1 some places. By the way -- the flapper without this round adapter still fits most toilets -- and changing your flaps every few years saves water... haha


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## Chris-PA (May 4, 2014)

HarveyCat said:


> And if all else fails -- you can get one of these rubber toilet flappers -- the round adapter that can be removed with a knife from between the two rubber arms -- fits right on your leaking Richmond Chainsaw's leaking cap-- and no more leaks! Most Home Depots only sell these in 3 packs -- single ones can be found for $1 some places. By the way -- the flapper without this round adapter still fits most toilets -- and changing your flaps every few years saves water... haha


LOL - Now just what are you implying here? Toilet parts for the Richmond chainsaw?


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## HarveyCat (May 5, 2014)

Honestly -- I went into Home Depot looking for a washer or big o-ring that would fit my cap (cheap OEM washer had failed)-- and Home Depot had nothing big enough to fit -- but since I had the cap with me -- I tried this on for size -- it fit well and I ended up buying it ( my local Home Depot only had the 3-pack $8) -- anyway so I just cut this ring off the flapper -- and fit it onto the cap -- I've had no leaks since! ...and I left it filled for over a week and it was still full. I am still going to get a nice cap.

...but if you ever find yours leaking and need a fast fix to finish working -- take the cap with you -- Home Depot & Lowes have these -- and as I said -- the flap is still good to use missing this ring -- will still fit most toilets -- the o-ring rubber adapter is rarely ever needed -- and is most times cut out and discarded anyway. LOL

http://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-Black-Rubber-Universal-Toilet-Flapper-9DD041039X/202305791


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## heyduke (May 7, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> The end of the Diokio chain. Both ends, actually:
> View attachment 347069



Was there anything identifiable factor that caused this failure or did it happen during "normal" duty? Do you have an Oregon tie strap that you could try to insert in one of the drive links? I'd like to know it I could shorten the Doikio chain and use it on a shorter bar but I'm afraid that if I break it I won't have a suitable tie strap.

By the way, I'm hoping to get a post together regarding the air filter problems. I pulled the cylinder off and found light damage to the piston skirts, intake and exhaust. I also had to clean out the crankcase which had quite a bit of sawdust in it. It's baffling me because there is hardly anything on the outside of the filter. I'd expect at least as much material on the outside as i see in my intakes track but it's pristine.


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## Chris-PA (May 7, 2014)

heyduke said:


> Was there anything identifiable factor that caused this failure or did it happen during "normal" duty? Do you have an Oregon tie strap that you could try to insert in one of the drive links? I'd like to know it I could shorten the Doikio chain and use it on a shorter bar but I'm afraid that if I break it I won't have a suitable tie strap.
> 
> By the way, I'm hoping to get a post together regarding the air filter problems. I pulled the cylinder off and found light damage to the piston skirts, intake and exhaust. I also had to clean out the crankcase which had quite a bit of sawdust in it. It's baffling me because there is hardly anything on the outside of the filter. I'd expect at least as much material on the outside as i see in my intakes track but it's pristine.


I had been noodling a hickory log, and then before I shut it off I decided to cut off a large brier near where I was working. So it wasn't a heavy load but more snagging and grabbing as is typical when cutting brush. 

There are extenuating circumstances though - remember that with the clutch on backwards and the drive clutch forced outboard, this chain was forced to go through a large S curve between the drive sprocket/rim and the bar groove. That would have created a continual flexing back and forth on the drive pins, which is what broke. I will look again at the broken pin to see if there is any of the characteristics of a fatigue failure there. 

Anyway, I cannot blame the chain given that it was subject to irregular forces.

I don't have any parts/equipment for chain repair/mods - yet. 

I'm wondering where the dust is getting in if it isn't building up on the filter mesh? Must have a rather large air entrance that bypasses it. The fit is sloppy around the retaining bolt, which is why I put a spacer in there. It may be drawing in around that. 

Mine is filtering better than that now. The filter halves are sealed together with Yamabond4, and clamped until it set. I don't really like the G621 filter/air box design - too many seams under the filter and in the cover assembly. I've been thinking about adapting one of those pleated filters Bailey's sells, but the filter now works just well enough to keep me from bothering.


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## heyduke (May 7, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I had been noodling a hickory log, and then before I shut it off I decided to cut off a large brier near where I was working. So it wasn't a heavy load but more snagging and grabbing as is typical when cutting brush.
> 
> There are extenuating circumstances though - remember that with the clutch on backwards and the drive clutch forced outboard, this chain was forced to go through a large S curve between the drive sprocket/rim and the bar groove. That would have created a continual flexing back and forth on the drive pins, which is what broke. I will look again at the broken pin to see if there is any of the characteristics of a fatigue failure there.
> 
> ...



Regarding the air filter problems, I use a lot of sealer on both the clamshells and the base and the plate underneath. A lot of crap is coming thru at the back of the joint between the air intake and filter/plate even though it looks pretty tight and i seal it, like i said, baffling. I've made a gasket that seals the top better. The redmax has one made of thin springy steel. I have a few experiments to run and then hopefully I can do more than guess. I have a new cover at the post office this morning, but haven't picked it up yet. At present, the saw, though it runs well, is not usable. It wouldn't make it thru a days work without seizing.


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## Chris-PA (May 7, 2014)

heyduke said:


> Regarding the air filter problems, I use a lot of sealer on both the clamshells and the base and the plate underneath. A lot of crap is coming thru at the back of the joint between the air intake and filter/plate even though it looks pretty tight and i seal it, like i said, baffling. I've made a gasket that seals the top better. The redmax has one made of thin springy steel. I have a few experiments to run and then hopefully I can do more than guess. I have a new cover at the post office this morning, but haven't picked it up yet. At present, the saw, though it runs well, is not usable. It wouldn't make it thru a days work without seizing.


I also made a paper gasket that goes between the carb and the filter support.


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## heyduke (May 7, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I also made a paper gasket that goes between the carb and the filter support.



Well, I made it to the PO and picked up my "new" cover. It must have come off a returned saw because the previous owner had modified it slightly to line up to the mounting screw. Anyway, now the knob falls out of the hole, so you know that will disappear the first time I have to clean the filter on the work site. the saw it came from probably seized the first time out.

I had glued everything together about a week ago and left the saw on the shelf until the cover arrived so I put the cover on and cut six or seven cookies, 20" diameter.

you can see that it lines up with the air intake better now.




because of this, a 3.7 mm spacer I inserted between the carb and isolator. it isn't finished here, had to be cleaned up and two holes for the impulse line drilled. It seems to me that either the isolator is too short or the cylinder is machined incorrectly, causing the misalignment.




here is the filter top gasket




after cutting the cookies:




still a mess, you can see where it's entering:




I'm about to give up and either run over this thing with my truck or buy a complete air intake system for a redmax. don't know which would be dumber.


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## Chris-PA (May 7, 2014)

heyduke said:


> Well, I made it to the PO and picked up my "new" cover. It must have come off a returned saw because the previous owner had modified it slightly to line up to the mounting screw. Anyway, now the knob falls out of the hole, so you know that will disappear the first time I have to clean the filter on the work site. the saw it came from probably seized the first time out.
> 
> I had glued everything together about a week ago and left the saw on the shelf until the cover arrived so I put the cover on and cut six or seven cookies, 20" diameter.
> 
> ...


That stinks, and mine is nowhere near that bad. I can't actually tell where it is entering, but it does not appear to be around the bottom. There is a general haze of dust all over the filter in that area and of course the adapter throat. Is that top gasket sealed to the filter? My filter has quite a curve there and it would be tough to seal it there in that manner. That is why I added the tube in the middle, so that the cover nut will seal the top hole. It kind of looks like it's coming in from above where the bolt goes through.


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## heyduke (May 7, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> That stinks, and mine is nowhere near that bad. I can't actually tell where it is entering, but it does not appear to be around the bottom. There is a general haze of dust all over the filter in that area and of course the adapter throat. Is that top gasket sealed to the filter? My filter has quite a curve there and it would be tough to seal it there in that manner. That is why I added the tube in the middle, so that the cover nut will seal the top hole. It kind of looks like it's coming in from above where the bolt goes through.



actually it's clearly evident that it's entering under the bottom of the filter, especially in the back. I'm wondering if the filter gets cocked when the knob is tightened, creating a gap. you can see from the indentations left by the knob and filter that the paper gasket is sealing well. the shape is just to keep it from spinning when the knob is tightened. I guess I'll have to take it down again and see if I can find a cause. It's interesting that you're not having the same problem.

It's too bad because the saw really does run well and with its light weight, it's a pleasure to operate.


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## Chris-PA (May 7, 2014)

heyduke said:


> actually it's clearly evident that it's entering under the bottom of the filter, especially in the back. I'm wondering if the filter gets cocked when the knob is tightened, creating a gap. you can see from the indentations left by the knob and filter that the paper gasket is sealing well. the shape is just to keep it from spinning when the knob is tightened. I guess I'll have to take it down again and see if I can find a cause. It's interesting that you're not having the same problem.
> 
> It's too bad because the saw really does run well and with its light weight, it's a pleasure to operate.


Oh, OK - I guess I can see what you mean. I'd still recommend trying a stop tube as I made - that would limit how much force the knob can put on the filter, and perhaps keep it from tipping? Once the knob is push on the filter hard enough to seal it, pushing it down further will only distort something. I made mine just shorter than the top of the filter.


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## heyduke (May 8, 2014)

Stephen C. said:


> have you tried a little thick grease on the ill fitting parts? Used to do well on dirt bike intake systems. Not pretty but kept the big chunks out.


yes


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## Chris-PA (May 8, 2014)

heyduke said:


> yes


I was off today and had a change to run the saw a bit. Here is the filter situation after 1-1/2 tanks:









This saw is a joy to run with a 20" bar.


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## heyduke (May 8, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I was off today and had a change to run the saw a bit. Here is the filter situation after 1-1/2 tanks:
> 
> This saw is a joy to run with a 20" bar.



Thanks for the fotos. i guess there is some major defect with my filter/air intake. the fotos i posted earlier were after running it maybe five minutes. it sucks in sawdust like a vacuum cleaner.

I finally looked at a g621 for comparison. it has a far superior design. while the richmond has a simple slip over air filter the redmax has a stepped flange/filter joint. that means any debris has to go thru a tight 90 degree angle. so, i'm thinking i will just order a redmax filter ($45) and air intake horn ($7.50). i'm thinking that the asian companies got their hands on some old and/or defective injection molds. i also noticed that redmax upgraded their air filter at least once, so perhaps this was a problem for them at some time.


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## Chris-PA (May 9, 2014)

heyduke said:


> Thanks for the fotos. i guess there is some major defect with my filter/air intake. the fotos i posted earlier were after running it maybe five minutes. it sucks in sawdust like a vacuum cleaner.
> 
> I finally looked at a g621 for comparison. it has a far superior design. while the richmond has a simple slip over air filter the redmax has a stepped flange/filter joint. that means any debris has to go thru a tight 90 degree angle. so, i'm thinking i will just order a redmax filter ($45) and air intake horn ($7.50). i'm thinking that the asian companies got their hands on some old and/or defective injection molds. i also noticed that redmax upgraded their air filter at least once, so perhaps this was a problem for them at some time.


I'll be interested to see some pictures of that if you buy one - I have no G621 available to look at.


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## heyduke (May 9, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I'll be interested to see some pictures of that if you buy one - I have no G621 available to look at.



Well, I looked again today and decided I must have been hallucinating. I see no step. The Redmax does seal though.

redmax filter bottom




Redmax filter top, note that this is quite different from the Richmond:




Here's what I call the air horn. I think Zenoah misnames it a manifold. If the plastic wasn't black you could see how clean it is inside.




Here's a foto of the richmond, showing the gross misalignment of the filter cover to the tank/handle. In fact it won't even close to the cylinder cover on the left hand side, leaves a gap of about 2 or three mm:




I agree regarding the benefits of a 20" bar. I have a spare d176 but its 24". I think I'll go with a 20 Rollomatic if I ever get this thing operational. I suppose that If this was your only saw and intended to be used after the hurricane, a 24" bar would make sense, but I have bigger saws for big wood. And a 20" bar would balance much better. I rankles me when I set the saw down and the tip buries itself in the dirt, the trip-on-your-own-duck syndrome.


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## Chris-PA (May 9, 2014)

heyduke said:


> Well, I looked again today and decided I must have been hallucinating. I see no step. The Redmax does seal though.
> 
> redmax filter bottom
> 
> ...


Thanks for the pictures. I dealt with the misalignment shown in the last picture by rotating the cylinder on reassembly, and it all lines up properly now.

I actually bought the stick-on seal shown here:





but the top of the Chinese filter is dished in this area, not flat like the Zenoah filter, so I did not put it on yet. I may give it a try, as the top cover is chafing the top of the filter. The Zenoah filter is pretty clearly a different shape - I'm surprised as I don't see any good reason for them having changed it, unless as you say it is a copy of an earlier version or some such.


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## HarveyCat (May 9, 2014)

heyduke said:


> Regarding the fuel cap, husqvarna has some caps that will work. I like the fuel cap from a 575. The stock caps and gaskets are sketchy. Replace them and you'll find you use less fuel.



My cap with a Home Depot quick fix still works -- but I bought a backup -- I hope that Husqvarna 575 cap has worked out well for you -- I just ordered one on ebay for $5.95
http://www.ebay.com/dsc/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=1&_nkw=537215202&_sop=15

This site says it fits a lot
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/tank-cap-p-615169.html


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## Chris-PA (May 10, 2014)

Well, things have been falling off my Chinasaw lately - the felling dog and the carb bolts came lose, but a couple of exhaust problems were more serious. I've been adding lock washers to things like the dog, and Loctite fixed the carb bolts. The other day the muffler support bracket fatigue failed and cracked off where the case bolt goes through. It was not that hard to fix - I made a little L shaped piece and silver soldered it on:


So today I gave it a test run after I got some other work done, and right before the skies opened up. While I was running back to the barn I heard a nasty rattle, and eventually determined it was coming from inside the muffler. I had not planned on doing a muffler mod, but this one decided to self mod. Here is what's inside:


There's plenty of large holes in the main baffle, and the outlet box is decent. Unfortunately it was no longer attached, as the brazing broke:


I decided to put it back together with the main baffle. I silver soldered it back - it's not too pretty a job, but it's functional. No holes:


Painted:


Reinstalled:


I guess if I keep fixing stuff that breaks or was not installed right I'll get past it! It does still run like a top.


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## heyduke (May 11, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Well, things have been falling off my Chinasaw lately - the felling dog and the carb bolts came lose, but a couple of exhaust problems were more serious. I've been adding lock washers to things like the dog, and Loctite fixed the carb bolts. The other day the muffler support bracket fatigue failed and cracked off where the case bolt goes through. It was not that hard to fix - I made a little L shaped piece and silver soldered it on:
> [
> So today I gave it a test run after I got some other work done, and right before the skies opened up. While I was running back to the barn I heard a nasty rattle, and eventually determined it was coming from inside the muffler. I had not planned on doing a muffler mod, but this one decided to self mod. Here is what's inside:
> 
> ...




nice job on the muffler. if you don't need to fill wide gaps silver solder can be stronger than bronze.

i suffered a major setback yesterday.. the saw quit burbling at wfo and i knew it was running lean. the cylinder cover was hot to the touch.when i tried to enrich the carb, turning the H screw had no effect, even backed out 4 or 5 turns. i have an air leak somewhere. i pulled off the carb and isolator. the mounting bolts were tight and when disassembled everything looked fine. cylinder bolts were tight. I just put new sealer under the cylinder, used the permatex equivalent of yamabond. i don't think there's a problem there. i don't like to jump to conclusions, but i suspect the pto side crankshaft seal, don't know if i will bother to pressure test it. i'm about to give up on this project and officially designate it a POS. your report on the muffler failure reinforces my gut. no complaints, this was an experiment but i think it may be time to wrap it up. my saws are all work saws and dependability is a requirement.


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## Chris-PA (May 11, 2014)

heyduke said:


> nice job on the muffler. if you don't need to fill wide gaps silver solder can be stronger than bronze.
> 
> i suffered a major setback yesterday.. the saw quit burbling at wfo and i knew it was running lean. the cylinder cover was hot to the touch.when i tried to enrich the carb, turning the H screw had no effect, even backed out 4 or 5 turns. i have an air leak somewhere. i pulled off the carb and isolator. the mounting bolts were tight and when disassembled everything looked fine. cylinder bolts were tight. I just put new sealer under the cylinder, used the permatex equivalent of yamabond. i don't think there's a problem there. i don't like to jump to conclusions, but i suspect the pto side crankshaft seal, don't know if i will bother to pressure test it. i'm about to give up on this project and officially designate it a POS. your report on the muffler failure reinforces my gut. no complaints, this was an experiment but i think it may be time to wrap it up. my saws are all work saws and dependability is a requirement.


Well, that's too bad. It's a pretty simple intake setup, so if it's not leaking there or at the cylinder base it does not leave many other options.


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## Chris-PA (May 12, 2014)

heyduke said:


> nice job on the muffler. if you don't need to fill wide gaps silver solder can be stronger than bronze.
> 
> i suffered a major setback yesterday.. the saw quit burbling at wfo and i knew it was running lean. the cylinder cover was hot to the touch.when i tried to enrich the carb, turning the H screw had no effect, even backed out 4 or 5 turns. i have an air leak somewhere. i pulled off the carb and isolator. the mounting bolts were tight and when disassembled everything looked fine. cylinder bolts were tight. I just put new sealer under the cylinder, used the permatex equivalent of yamabond. i don't think there's a problem there. i don't like to jump to conclusions, but i suspect the pto side crankshaft seal, don't know if i will bother to pressure test it. i'm about to give up on this project and officially designate it a POS. your report on the muffler failure reinforces my gut. no complaints, this was an experiment but i think it may be time to wrap it up. my saws are all work saws and dependability is a requirement.


Maybe it's not an air leak - if something is limiting fuel flow either to the carb or in the carb you might not be able to feed more fuel by opening the H screw.


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## heyduke (May 12, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Maybe it's not an air leak - if something is limiting fuel flow either to the carb or in the carb you might not be able to feed more fuel by opening the H screw.



It certainly wouldn't surprise me to find that the carb is defective too but it's not the filter or a bad fuel line. it doesn't act anything like that. it acts like a saw that is running too lean due to an air leak. actually i've been worried about it since the first day i had it because i could never get the idle low enuff to kill it. the lowest it would run is 2700rpm with the adjustment screw off the throttle lever. now it won't idle slowly enuff to fully disengage the clutch. anyway, i'm in the process of pressure checking it now. i have to make up the two plates, one with a hose barb. i really don't know why i'm bothering. my gut is telling me to leave it in the bed with the tailgate open in the walmart parking lot. but my chucking furiosity is driving me in another direction. as i said previously i don't think that this is a good work saw. i don't think it would be likely to make it thru a job without breaking something. anyone reading this, it's a waste of time and money.

anyway, looking at your excellent clutch tool, i decided if i made a tool with three dogs, like yours, only two dogs would be doing all the work. so, i came up with this. th dogs are 10mm allen screws. the handle is 3/16" thick, part of a hinge for a large gate. it has more the 12" of moment so getting the clutch loose was easy. (it was on backwards)





here's the pto-side seal. it looks like it may have been jammed in crooked. the rubber is tore up on one side, around 8:00 o:clock


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## Chris-PA (May 12, 2014)

heyduke said:


> It certainly wouldn't surprise me to find that the carb is defective too but it's not the filter or a bad fuel line. it doesn't act anything like that. it acts like a saw that is running too lean due to an air leak. actually i've been worried about it since the first day i had it because i could never get the idle low enuff to kill it. the lowest it would run is 2700rpm with the adjustment screw off the throttle lever. now it won't idle slowly enuff to fully disengage the clutch. anyway, i'm in the process of pressure checking it now. i have to make up the two plates, one with a hose barb. i really don't know why i'm bothering. my gut is telling me to leave it in the bed with the tailgate open in the walmart parking lot. but my chucking furiosity is driving me in another direction. as i said previously i don't think that this is a good work saw. i don't think it would be likely to make it thru a job without breaking something. anyone reading this, it's a waste of time and money.
> 
> anyway, looking at your excellent clutch tool, i decided if i made a tool with three dogs, like yours, only two dogs would be doing all the work. so, i came up with this. th dogs are 10mm allen screws. the handle is 3/16" thick, part of a hinge for a large gate. it has more the 12" of moment so getting the clutch loose was easy. (it was on backwards)
> 
> ...


Your clutch was backwards too? Wow. 

I think you are on the right track with the air leak, as mine has never had an issue with idling down. It will putter along at quite a low rpm. 

You know, it's a shame as they only need to pay a modest amount of attention at assembly for these to be fine. But then that is one reason why they are priced as they are. More evidence that these are chainsaw kits - though it would actually be better to just get a box full of parts.

Oh, and I like your clutch tool - I made a similar one for my Poulans.


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## Chris-PA (May 14, 2014)

I was splitting some oak last evening and I brought the saw along for noodling some crotches and bucking up some smaller stuff. It is light enough to use for limbing and such - I'd prefer one of my smaller saws for that but it's nice when you've only brought one saw. The saw started and ran flawlessly, and I feel like I've got the bugs worked out of it now. I cannot tell any difference with the additional unplanned muffer mod, either in power or noise. 

So I ordered a chain for the 25" bar that came with it - Oregon 75DP as I wanted semi chisel. 

At this point the only thing I need to tweak is the length of the fuel and oil lines, so the pick-ups will sit in the bottom of the tank properly. They are sometimes getting stuck up by the caps.


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## heyduke (May 16, 2014)

chris-

i pressure-tested my richmond saw today. i expected to see a problem with the pto side but it was on the flywheel side. it was leaking badly. i'm not posting fotos or vid yet. want to put it together in a coherent way. the seal was easy to remove, a loose fit in the bore. there was a significant amount of sawdust behind where is was failing. on the pto side there is work to do too. the seal is misaligned, sticking up perhaps .5mm on one side and down an equal amount 180 degrees opposite. i'll try to fix that. i recommend that you inspect both seals. i'm ordering a new seal and woodruff from partstree. either the woodruff was never installed or it transdimensionalized into an adjacent universe while i was moving the flywheel into the container for larger assemblies. i never saw it.


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## Chris-PA (May 16, 2014)

heyduke said:


> chris-
> 
> i pressure-tested my richmond saw today. i expected to see a problem with the pto side but it was on the flywheel side. it was leaking badly. i'm not posting fotos or vid yet. want to put it together in a coherent way. the seal was easy to remove, a loose fit in the bore. there was a significant amount of sawdust behind where is was failing. on the pto side there is work to do too. the seal is misaligned, sticking up perhaps .5mm on one side and down an equal amount 180 degrees opposite. i'll try to fix that. i recommend that you inspect both seals. i'm ordering a new seal and woodruff from partstree. either the woodruff was never installed or it transdimensionalized into an adjacent universe while i was moving the flywheel into the container for larger assemblies. i never saw it.


Thanks for the head's up. This is cropped from the only image I took with the flywheel off, but I really can't tell much from it:


It's working nice and I don't really want to take it apart now, but I will have to make it a point to inspect it soon. The assembly errors seem to be fairly systematic. On the other hand, mine shows no symptoms of an air leak at all - yet.


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## Thommo (May 17, 2014)

The baffle falling off inside the muffler must be a common problem. I have got the 72cc version and that baffle came loose after the 3rd tank of fuel. i drilled an extra hole in mine before i welded it back in with my mig. The only other problem i had with my saw was with the recoil starter that broke and the rivets in the chain wore quickly. It is pretty thirsty on fuel. I could only cut through a 40 inch gum tree 3 times and it was out of fuel.


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## Chris-PA (May 17, 2014)

Thommo said:


> The baffle falling off inside the muffler must be a common problem. I have got the 72cc version and that baffle came loose after the 3rd tank of fuel. i drilled an extra hole in mine before i welded it back in with my mig. The only other problem i had with my saw was with the recoil starter that broke and the rivets in the chain wore quickly. It is pretty thirsty on fuel. I could only cut through a 40 inch gum tree 3 times and it was out of fuel.


How does the 72cc run? I would not think the weight would be much different, so that should be a very light 72cc saw.

I didn't think it really needed that outlet baffle as the main baffle is still there to separate the can into two chambers. I really didn't notice any difference without it, either in noise or performance.

I've noticed my 62cc is pretty thirsty too, but I have mostly smaller saws with narrow kerf bars so I don't really have much to compare it to. It didn't seem awful in that regard, but once the bugs are worked out (hopefully now) and the novelty is gone I'll be back to using the smaller saws unless I need it.


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## heyduke (May 17, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Thanks for the head's up. This is cropped from the only image I took with the flywheel off, but I really can't tell much from it:
> View attachment 350646
> 
> It's working nice and I don't really want to take it apart now, but I will have to make it a point to inspect it soon. The assembly errors seem to be fairly systematic. On the other hand, mine shows no symptoms of an air leak at all - yet.



yes, if it's working, don't mess with it. you'll know right away if you develop a leak. this one s leaking around the bore, not the shaft. i'm hoping that a new seal will be a tighter fit. but it could be that the 20mm bore was just cut to large.


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## Hus12 (May 17, 2014)

Chris I think you have a great project.
I only started playing with saws when I started servicing a friends saws which led to a hole garage full .
I have been in the middle of the stihl husqvarna argument many times in the garage which led me to buy a cheap 62cc clone saw . Long story short Also add a milling machine and a lathe in the mix I'll put my clone up against any husky or stihl any day of the week .


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## Chris-PA (May 17, 2014)

Hus12 said:


> Chris I think you have a great project.
> I only started playing with saws when I started servicing a friends saws which led to a hole garage full .
> I have been in the middle of the stihl husqvarna argument many times in the garage which led me to buy a cheap 62cc clone saw . Long story short Also add a milling machine and a lathe in the mix I'll put my clone up against any husky or stihl any day of the week .


The clones sure have their share of assembly errors, but they are pretty faithful to the original design. In modding mine I only really lowered and widened the intake a bit, ditched the base gasket and advanced the timing. The muffler was good enough.

I'm surprise the original G621 was not more popular, considering the weight and performance. The engines apparently have a following in the RC world:


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## Hus12 (May 17, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> The clones sure have their share of assembly errors, but they are pretty faithful to the original design. In modding mine I only really lowered and widened the intake a bit, ditched the base gasket and advanced the timing. The muffler was good enough.
> 
> I'm surprise the original G621 was not more popular, considering the weight and performance. The engines apparently have a following in the RC world:
> View attachment 350774


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## Hus12 (May 17, 2014)

I have one with a mate running weeks on hard ball at his farm , for under $200 to my door how can you complain .

Thinking of adapting a husky 372 head on a 72cc baumr


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## Terry Syd (May 17, 2014)

Just to clarify, is the 72cc saw the same chassis as the 62cc saw? In other words, the same weight?


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## Chris-PA (May 17, 2014)

Terry Syd said:


> Just to clarify, is the 72cc saw the same chassis as the 62cc saw? In other words, the same weight?


Terry, from all the pictures I've seen they are the same, and I cannot imagine the displacement increase would change the weight much. Hopefully Thommo will reply.


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## heyduke (May 18, 2014)

Hus12 said:


> I have one with a mate running weeks on hard ball at his farm , for under $200 to my door how can you complain .
> 
> Thinking of adapting a husky 372 head on a 72cc baumr



can you translate to english? thanks.


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## Thommo (May 18, 2014)

Terry Syd said:


> Just to clarify, is the 72cc saw the same chassis as the 62cc saw? In other words, the same weight?


My 72cc Baumr ag chainsaw looks identical and has a dry weight of 9Kg I just weighed it with my bathroom scales and it weighed 7Kg with a 20"bar and chain so the weight shown in the manual is not correct.


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## Hus12 (May 18, 2014)

heyduke said:


> can you translate to english? thanks.


I have a friend who is clearing a lot he has purchased . I've given him a baumr 72cc chainsaw to use and basically told him to brake it . 
It has been a year and a bit and the saw is working and performing perfectly.
I purchased the saw from eBay for under $200 added that it was broken down and rebuilt correctly.


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## Terry Syd (May 18, 2014)

Thommo said:


> My 72cc Baumr ag chainsaw looks identical and has a dry weight of 9Kg



Is that powerhead only? I noticed that there is also a 66cc model that looks similar, but I don't know the weight.


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## Thommo (May 18, 2014)

Terry Syd said:


> Is that powerhead only? I noticed that there is also a 66cc model that looks similar, but I don't know the weight.


I might have to weigh it myself tomorrow to find the exact weight. The manual that came with the saw just says 9KG dry. I have put a 20 inch bar on mine because it was a bit nose heavy with the 24 inch bar and i rarely cut anything that big now.


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## Hus12 (May 18, 2014)

I also found the 24 inch bar nose heavy and to big for what I need , a 20 inch would suit me .


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## Chris-PA (May 18, 2014)

I had trouble finding an accurate weight for the Zenoah G621, and the numbers on the clones did not seem reasonable. That's why I was surprised when mine weighed in under 12.5lb (5.7kg). 

It is nose heavy with a 24", and the bar that came with mine is actually 25" and even heavier than the Oregon 24" I have. 

My dad told me he has a big oak log to buck up, so I'm taking the saw with a 24" bar over today.


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## heyduke (May 18, 2014)

Hus12 said:


> I have a friend who is clearing a lot he has purchased . I've given him a baumr 72cc chainsaw to use and basically told him to brake it .
> It has been a year and a bit and the saw is working and performing perfectly.
> I purchased the saw from eBay for under $200 added that it was broken down and rebuilt correctly.



thanks for the translation from ozish. i haven't found anything bigger than 62cc, which is a bit small for what i do. i don't think redmax ever built anything bigger than that. could yours be a husky clone? also, it looks like quality varies wildly. my saw would never have lasted for even one day, non-functional air filter that sucks in chips better than my shop vac, , very poor piston rings, bad crankshaft seals, unpredictable chain brake, bad throttle linkage, generally poor plastic. i agree with you on the 20 inch bar, maybe even an 18, just for balance.


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## Chris-PA (May 18, 2014)

heyduke said:


> thanks for the translation from ozish. i haven't found anything bigger than 62cc, which is a bit small for what i do. i don't think redmax ever built anything bigger than that. could yours be a husky clone? also, it looks like quality varies wildly. my saw would never have lasted for even one day, non-functional air filter that sucks in chips better than my shop vac, , very poor piston rings, bad crankshaft seals, unpredictable chain brake, bad throttle linkage, generally poor plastic. i agree with you on the 20 inch bar, maybe even an 18, just for balance.


One of the modifications the Chinese manufacturer (I think it is Zhongjian Tools Manufacture Co.) does seem to do is displacement increases. The Earthquakes are available in a 41cc version of the G3800, which Zenoah never made. This is the Baumr-AG 72cc, which you can see is basically the same (although I like the modified filter cover design better).






http://www.agrmachinery.com.au/buy/24-72cc-pro-chainsaw-with-e-start/CHNSAW-BAUM-72SX

Sometimes they make more significant changes to the plastic covers:


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## Hus12 (May 18, 2014)

Quality does vary .......
There are bigger ones on eBay under baumr there is also a 80cc version for under $300 .
I soon as I receive a good quality copy saw I'll let every body in on it till then I agree with you on the pistons right down to the air intake . My personal saws have been completely rebuilt from the ground up , having a cnc machine is handy .
I'm only messing around with them because of the husky and stihl debate . My mates are in the tree business not me . They continually go on and on about husky or stihl that's when I stepped in.


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## heyduke (May 18, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> One of the modifications the Chinese manufacturer (I think it is Zhongjian Tools Manufacture Co.) does seem to do is displacement increases. The Earthquakes are available in a 41cc version of the G3800, which Zenoah never made. This is the Baumr-AG 72cc, which you can see is basically the same (although I like the modified filter cover design better).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



right, i got on ebay-au and found the baumr-ag saws. there's an 82cc model too. unles they increased fuel tank capacity, you'd spend a lot of time filling them.


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## heyduke (May 18, 2014)

Hus12 said:


> Quality does vary .......
> There are bigger ones on eBay under baumr there is also a 80cc version for under $300 .
> I soon as I receive a good quality copy saw I'll let every body in on it till then I agree with you on the pistons right down to the air intake . My personal saws have been completely rebuilt from the ground up , having a cnc machine is handy .
> I'm only messing around with them because of the husky and stihl debate . My mates are in the tree business not me . They continually go on and on about husky or stihl that's when I stepped in.



yeah- my saws are tools, not a religion. and the only "new" epa approved saw that i care for at all is the husky 575. that's not because it's all orange but because of its wide power band and abundant torque.

regarding your practice of blue-printing your saws before they are deployed, it sounds like a good idea but there are a couple of things that would be hard to catch if you didn't have the hard experience of dealing with them, the muffler failures, the air filters that don't, and who would expect a flywheel-side crank seal to fail after a couple of hours. tt's like the saw was trying to find a new way to suck in more saw dust!


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## Chris-PA (May 18, 2014)

Here's another - the rear clutch side A/V mount partially tore today. I pulled it out when I got home, and I suspect it is because the casting hole has a bit of an edge all round - it's not awful but might be enough to cut the mount after a while. I will smooth it with a sanding drum on the dremel before I put the new one in (I picked up a lot of spare ones off eBay previously, just because they are wear items). 

Other than that the saw cut well. Cold start was 3 pulls, and hot start was one pull every time. The thing cut very well, and I was working it hard. I was cutting up a 30" white oak trunk that the big "A" arborist company left at my dad's place. It was a 120yo healthy tree that was on the opposite side of the road from the power lines, and of no more threat to the lines than the half dozen other trees they left that were growing right over the lines. They took a lot of his wood but left the big trunk, as it it got caught up in a pole support wire, was sitting on rocks and had a 6" poison ivy vine on it. Never even talked to him about it. They wouldn't get away with that crap on my property.

Anyway, I managed to keep the chain out of the rocks, avoid the support cable, and apparently just missed some iron inside the tree (to judge by the black stains). And I got to hang out with dad cutting wood, and mom made a great dinner. That counts as a good day in my book!


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## Thommo (May 18, 2014)

Well i just had a weigh in for my Baumr-ag saws. The Sx72 weighed it at 7Kg or 15 lbs with the 20" bar and 5.5Kg without bar. My SX62 weighed the same and the SX45 was .5Kg lighter. The 62cc saw that we get here is a different design to the 72cc. The 62cc saw needs to have the impulse hose modified so that the saw doesnt lean out when it warms up and the 45cc saw is the same. I just threaded a piece of thin copper pipe inside the impulse hose and bent it to shape to stop it from sucking in an closing off when the motor warms up, and the saws have worked perfectly since.


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## Hus12 (May 19, 2014)

I do a


heyduke said:


> yeah- my saws are tools, not a religion. and the only "new" epa approved saw that i care for at all is the husky 575. that's not because it's all orange but because of its wide power band and abundant torque.
> 
> regarding your practice of blue-printing your saws before they are deployed, it sounds like a good idea but there are a couple of things that would be hard to catch if you didn't have the hard experience of dealing with them, the muffler failures, the air filters that don't, and who would expect a flywheel-side crank seal to fail after a couple of hours. tt's like the saw was trying to find a new way to suck in more saw dust![/QUOTE


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## Hus12 (May 19, 2014)

Have had no problem with the fly wheels after balancing . The crank seals will hold once the crank is balanced and true .
The filtration system is a joke , try a husky filter setup and adapt it to your existing carby .


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## LegDeLimber (May 19, 2014)

If anyone isn't acquainted with the rout-a-burr tool for sharp edges
You're in for a slight treat of more tool acquisition disorder.
It's one more handy tool for spots where the old triangular deburring knife
is a bit hard on the carpal tunnel or You just want the ease with which it can radius 
a hole, slot or edge.

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=1710


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## Hus12 (May 19, 2014)

Do you guys sleeve your saws maybe doweling the cylinder .
Basically has any body been outside the box with there saws . 
Being from a performance world testing the boundaries are a day to day thing at work .


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## Chris-PA (May 19, 2014)

Thommo said:


> Well i just had a weigh in for my Baumr-ag saws. The Sx72 weighed it at 7Kg or 15 lbs with the 20" bar and 5.5Kg without bar. My SX62 weighed the same and the SX45 was .5Kg lighter. TI he 62cc saw that we get here is a different design to the 72cc. The 62cc saw needs to have the impulse hose modified so that the saw doesnt lean out when it warms up and the 45cc saw is the same. I just threaded a piece of thin copper pipe inside the impulse hose and bent it to shape to stop it from sucking in an closing off when the motor warms up, and the saws have worked perfectly since.


I have seen both 62cc saws for sale on eBay here. One is the G621-based saw I have, and the other is based on the G5000 design but bored and stroked. I stayed away from the latter one as the G5000 used a Walbro WT series carb, and it appears the larger displacement clones stayed with a Chinese version of it - and I think that's too small for a 62cc saw. Otherwise those appear to be nice designs, and I think the 52cc must be the most common of all Chinese saws. They have made them with so many variations of color and cover shapes.


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## Chris-PA (May 19, 2014)

BTW, something I noticed on mine is that the date code on the casting shows January of 2008. Now that is just for the raw casting, but still possibly an indication that these saws are actually a few years old. Or maybe that they never move the thingy in the mold!


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## heyduke (May 19, 2014)

Thommo said:


> Well i just had a weigh in for my Baumr-ag saws. The Sx72 weighed it at 7Kg or 15 lbs with the 20" bar and 5.5Kg without bar. My SX62 weighed the same and the SX45 was .5Kg lighter. The 62cc saw that we get here is a different design to the 72cc. The 62cc saw needs to have the impulse hose modified so that the saw doesnt lean out when it warms up and the 45cc saw is the same. I just threaded a piece of thin copper pipe inside the impulse hose and bent it to shape to stop it from sucking in an closing off when the motor warms up, and the saws have worked perfectly since.



it sounds like the baumr saws are significantly different from the richmonds sold over here. they seem to be built a lot better, but our 62cc saws have the impulse line in the carb body, no plastic tube. as long as your gaskets hold up everything is fine. chris, thanks for the heads up. i'll have a look. it might be hard to find a replacement for the av mounts.


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## Chris-PA (May 19, 2014)

heyduke said:


> it sounds like the baumr saws are significantly different from the richmonds sold over here. they seem to be built a lot better, but our 62cc saws have the impulse line in the carb body, no plastic tube. as long as your gaskets hold up everything is fine. chris, thanks for the heads up. i'll have a look. it might be hard to find a replacement for the av mounts.


Search on ebay for "62cc chainsaw". A complete mount kit is about $20.


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## heyduke (May 19, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Search on ebay for "62cc chainsaw". A complete mount kit is about $20.



don't use ebay any more. don't want to provide paypal with any of my financial data.


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## Chris-PA (May 19, 2014)

I replaced the A/V mount, it was not difficult. Here is the bad one (sorry for the focus problem):


You can see it ripped right behind the end flange, which goes up against the edge here:


I ended up using a spherical stone on the Dremel to take that edge off:


I lubed the new one with a bit of canola oil, as that's what's going to get all over it anyway from the bar - it went in no problem. The screw is really tiny and has me a bit concerned. 

My new loop of Oregon 75DP arrived, so I can use the 25" bar that came with it again:


And yes, 0.063" drops right in that bar, fitting much better than 0.058". This is the first loop of Oregon chain that has been well enough ground to use as is - not perfect but good enough that I didn't want to go over that many cutters!


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## Chris-PA (May 31, 2014)

Well, once again the saw ran great but suffered yet another failure/missing part issue. The thing oils quite well, but it started oiling even more enthusiastically - blowing it out around the top cover, and just about everywhere else. It was covered with bar oil. What a mess! At first I thought it was the cap, but soon realized that was not the problem. It was running out behind the coil.

After removing the coil I found a small duckbill valve laying in a recessed well (I should have taken pictures but was running out of time). I popped up the IPL for the real G621 on my iPhone (handy), and found that there should have been a retaining clip and a seal/filter, but those were nowhere to be seen.

The duckbill sits in a small hole at the bottom of a cast well about 0.395" in diameter. Putting it back in the hole was not problem, but I needed something to retain it. I decided to drill a hole in a block of wood with a size "Y" bit, and then cut out a small piece of spare spark screen. I put that over the hole, and pushed it in with the back end of a size "W" bit, forming a cap. Then I trimmed off the excess, and pushed the screen into the well, up against the duckbill valve. It's pretty stiff screen and I think it will hold it in. It sits in there like the filter screen in a carb.

There is a little ramp molded onto the back of the coil that appears to be intended to hold something over the tank vent, so I cut out a piece of old air filter foam and set it over the hole. The coil holds it in nicely. Cleaning the saw up took more time than fixing it, but fortunately it was canola oil.


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## Haywire Haywood (May 31, 2014)

For those interested, "Baum" in german means "tree". Don't know if there's any connection to the name of the saw or not.


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## Tim Burke (Jun 1, 2014)

That was a very interesting and informative 14 page read! Thanks Chris-PA for the thread. I don't think I'll be buying any saws in the near future as I have 5 now but I think I'd seriously consider one of these as a "beater"? I have a new MS391 and a recently rebuilt MS360 so another 60cc class saw isn't something I need but a 70+cc, maybe...


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## heyduke (Jun 1, 2014)

i will report yet another failure. the chain brake detent wore out. its the small steel lever that is attached to the chain brake spring. it got to the point that the chain brake would trip if you looked at it funny. i took out the lever and tried to reshape it with a file several times but couldn't get it quite right. the saw is usable now but there will be no chain brake until a spare part arrives from redmax. i think the part cost $2 and shipping $8. the odd thing is that i never use the chain brake. i don't think it had 10 cycles on it. it failed immediately after i replaced the flywheel side crankshaft seal which only had a few hours on it. it's a pain to remove and replace the chain brake spring. i'll probably devise and fabricate a tool before i do it again. 

good news is that the saw seems to be sucking less chips now. i think that the bad seal was sucking sawdust into the case which was blowing back thru the carb. i'm also having a problem similar to chris's with the chain running thru the clutch area. the chain won't run backwards and it is wearing a groove on the inner chain plate. the chain plate looks like it was intended to fit a stihl rather than redmax. the bar appears to be at some other than 90 degree angle to the crank shaft. i have officially awarded this saw POS status. i cannot recommend it. you will spend less money if you just buy a good used european or japanese saw, echo, stihl or husky. This saw has never run more than an hour without a catastrophic (and expensive) failure. i've spent a lot more time working *on* this saw that *with* it.


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## Chris-PA (Jun 1, 2014)

heyduke said:


> i will report yet another failure. the chain brake detent wore out. its the small steel lever that is attached to the chain brake spring. it got to the point that the chain brake would trip if you looked at it funny. i took out the lever and tried to reshape it with a file several times but couldn't get it quite right. the saw is usable now but there will be no chain brake until a spare part arrives from redmax. i think the part cost $2 and shipping $8. the odd thing is that i never use the chain brake. i don't think it had 10 cycles on it. it failed immediately after i replaced the flywheel side crankshaft seal which only had a few hours on it. it's a pain to remove and replace the chain brake spring. i'll probably devise and fabricate a tool before i do it again.
> 
> good news is that the saw seems to be sucking less chips now. i think that the bad seal was sucking sawdust into the case which was blowing back thru the carb. i'm also having a problem similar to chris's with the chain running thru the clutch area. the chain won't run backwards and it is wearing a groove on the inner chain plate. the chain plate looks like it was intended to fit a stihl rather than redmax. the bar appears to be at some other than 90 degree angle to the crank shaft. i have officially awarded this saw POS status. i cannot recommend it. you will spend less money if you just buy a good used european or japanese saw, echo, stihl or husky. This saw has never run more than an hour without a catastrophic (and expensive) failure. i've spent a lot more time working *on* this saw that *with* it.


My chain brake was getting a little touchy too, but I cleaned up the shape of that piece with a small diameter stone on my Dremel. Basically I gave it just a little more defined pocket. It seems to work nicely now - we'll see if it holds up. 

Since I put the clutch on correctly I have no more issues with the chain. Maybe you just need to bend the lower edge of the inner bar plate in a bit? I've had to do that on some other saws. The 0.058" chain in a 0.063" bar may be contributing. 

The assembly is surely disappointing. I would rather have had a box of parts - but then it would still need to have ALL the parts...


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## heyduke (Jun 1, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> My chain brake was getting a little touchy too, but I cleaned up the shape of that piece with a small diameter stone on my Dremel. Basically I gave it just a little more defined pocket. It seems to work nicely now - we'll see if it holds up.
> 
> Since I put the clutch on correctly I have no more issues with the chain. Maybe you just need to bend the lower edge of the inner bar plate in a bit? I've had to do that on some other saws. The 0.058" chain in a 0.063" bar may be contributing.
> 
> The assembly is surely disappointing. I would rather have had a box of parts - but then it would still need to have ALL the parts...



yeah, i need to go back and reread your posts regarding the clutch. do you know which page it is on? we're at 15 now. that's a lot to go thru. my memory is that you flipped the clutch over but that didn't work for me. the first major problem i had with this saw was a non-functional clutch. the clutch bearing was frozen to the shaft with (perhaps?) thread locking compound.

i got this thing just to have something to experiment with in those late winter months when cabin fever was setting in but it's nearly summer now. maybe i'll remount the POS bar and chain that it came with and use it to make a wind vane for outside my shop..


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## Chris-PA (Jun 1, 2014)

heyduke said:


> yeah, i need to go back and reread your posts regarding the clutch. do you know which page it is on? we're at 15 now. that's a lot to go thru. my memory is that you flipped the clutch over but that didn't work for me. the first major problem i had with this saw was a non-functional clutch. the clutch bearing was frozen to the shaft with (perhaps?) thread locking compound.
> 
> i got this thing just to have something to experiment with in those late winter months when cabin fever was setting in but it's nearly summer now. maybe i'll remount the POS bar and chain that it came with and use it to make a wind vane for outside my shop..


If you used it as a weathervane it would probably point the wrong way.

The backwards clutch issue was here: http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...hinese-g621-clone.253359/page-11#post-4790325 I had some other things I was trying before I discovered the real problem, but those were all erroneous. The problem I was having is that the backwards clutch pushed the drive sprocket out too far, and the face of the clutch drum was outside of the plane of the bar. That made the chain go through a nasty S curve as it came off the tail of the bar, and on the chain that came with it the inner cutters dragged across the drum face.

With the clutch on correctly the drive sprocket is moved inboard. Now the chain holds the rim well centered, and it floats with clearance on both sides. I do believe I added an additional flat washer behind the outer left hand nut, as there seemed to be too much slop to the drive sprocket.

The oil tank vent seems to be working well, and the chain brake is also working nicely - for now. I am concerned that the pawl is improperly heat treated and will wear badly again, so I may go ahead and order the real piece from RedMax.

It ran great and had no problems today. Started right up, ran great, oiled the 25" bar well at about 1/2 setting, and oil went where it was supposed to. The chain brake didn't put itself on every time I blurbed the throttle either. I used it to noodle up some large white ash rounds with knots that have been sitting for 2 years - they were quite hard and about 21" long. It made the saw work that's for sure, but it pulled well until the chain went dull.


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## heyduke (Jun 1, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> If you used it as a weathervane it would probably point the wrong way.
> 
> The backwards clutch issue was here: http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...hinese-g621-clone.253359/page-11#post-4790325 I had some other things I was trying before I discovered the real problem, but those were all erroneous. The problem I was having is that the backwards clutch pushed the drive sprocket out too far, and the face of the clutch drum was outside of the plane of the bar. That made the chain go through a nasty S curve as it came off the tail of the bar, and on the chain that came with it the inner cutters dragged across the drum face.
> 
> ...




Right, i flipped the clutch today. it helped a little but the chain still doesn't make it thru the drive sprocket correctly. it will hang occasionally when i run the chain backwards. i did use the saw today, dropped a good sized russian olive. no debris accumulated behind the air filter so i am fairly certain that my problem with chips after the filter was due to the flywheel side crank seal, bizarre. thanks for the pointer re. your clutch woes. i need to move on and concentrate on trees more than saws.


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## frogdaddy (Jun 2, 2014)

Man you guys much love punishment or something but I think you two have done a great service for the readers of this site. That is unless you are into torture don't buy on of these saws.


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## Chris-PA (Jun 2, 2014)

frogdaddy said:


> Man you guys much love punishment or something but I think you two have done a great service for the readers of this site. That is unless you are into torture don't buy on of these saws.


Given the missing parts and things like the backwards clutch, I wouldn't recommend one. OTOH I've certainly read about people discovering nasty surprises in used saws that cost at least as much. At this point I've got a nice light 62cc saw that runs quite well. 

I'm impressed with the G621 design - with the exception of the air filter, but in fairness the real one probably fits & works better.


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## Chris-PA (Jun 29, 2014)

The Chinasaw finally got a serious workout today. Friday on a clear day with no real wind a large white oak simply fell over, taking out a tulip tree and the power lines. Yesterday I cut and moved the tulip, mostly with my ported GZ4000 McCulloch clone (which ran great) along with the Earthquake. Here's the mess:




Today I bucked the oak. It was 34-36" at the base, and I started with the 25" Chinese bar and the loop of 75DP I bought for it. The saw ran flawlessly, without one hitch or hiccup. It had decent power for a 62cc saw pulling a buried 25" bar. Hot start was usually one pull.






In this picture if you look across the road you can see one that rolled away - oops!. It is a fairly steep hill. The thing started rolling, hit a stone and turned right for the road.


Eventually I touched the 75DP in the dirt and switched to the Oregon Power Match bar and a loop of full chisel. It cut a little faster for a bit but the bar oil hole clogged up like it usually does and I had to pull the bar and clean it. This is really annoying and I have to figure out if I can modify it to stop it. It's a D176 mount and for some reason it just plugs up very easily. The Chinese bar does not have this problem. Still, the saw was great, and I think maybe I'm past the endless tinkering and fixing and can actually use it as a tool. The light weight was a real help since my back is still recovering from a recent injury

Near as I can tell the roots of the oak were pretty rotten, at least on the up hill side, and it just let go. It appeared to be a big healthy tree otherwise. When I severed it from the root mass it did not settle back like they usually do, rather it moved toward the trunk. Partly because it was down hill, and partly I think because the roots were rotten.

I have a lot of work to do quartering those rounds and moving them out of there. I also had to spend a fair amount of time opening a path to get in there with the loader.


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## milkman (Jun 29, 2014)

Good workout for you and the saw, need me some of that fun.


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## Chris-PA (Sep 21, 2014)

The saw is running great, and I believe I'm past the teething pains. It starts on about 4 pulls every time and just works. The biggest problem I have with it is the Oregon D176 mount bars just clog right up and stop oiling if I noodle, but they do that on my McCulloch too. I finaly dropped a dead hickory snag today, and did some cutting with the clone - that stuff is seriously hard and makes it feel like the chain is on backwards on all my saws. I was running a old loop of TriLink semi chisel with the guard links removed:



Here are a couple of videos - the saw was working pretty hard, but kept on pulling. It's really a joy to use, especially given the weight.


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## Chris-PA (Sep 21, 2014)

One last one. I pushed it a bit more, and it's from the fatter end of the log:


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## stihl028 (Sep 21, 2014)

Nice write up ..


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## benmyers (Sep 21, 2014)

Nice thread here. I enjoy seeing your efforts with various clone saws. This one seems to have some grunt actually after you got all the knick-knacks taken care of.

You might remind the nay-sayers that this saw would sit on a shelf and shine just like any other, but would cost a lot less


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## motor head (Mar 29, 2015)

Chris-PA said:


> As documented, the "torn apart and worked on" part took an evening and part of a day doing work I enjoy (helping to stave off cabin fever) - TOTAL. And that included optional work like cleaning things up for cosmetic reasons, measuring timing, taking pictures and grinding the intake port. As stated, B&C never mattered much to me at all and I never expected much of them. I've got other bars and chains hanging in the barn that will fit, which was part of the decision to buy it. My cost will *not* be $275.
> 
> The saw is a faithful copy of a G621AV, which is a saw I've liked for some time. So it has all the characteristics of that saw - are you familiar with that design? What other $210 62cc saw could I get that would not need to be torn down, with as least as much time invested, plus probably new parts?
> 
> ...


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## motor head (Mar 29, 2015)

I know this an old thread,I just wanna say that I enjoy reading your threads,They are are very informative,I learned a lot about porting a strato saw reading your posts,Thanks for being so honest.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 29, 2015)

motor head said:


> I know this an old thread,I just wanna say that I enjoy reading your threads,They are are very informative,I learned a lot about porting a strato saw reading your posts,Thanks for being so honest.


Thanks!


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## Chris-PA (Mar 30, 2015)

I find it interesting that in Japan Zenoah still sells the G621. But they also sell a G6200.

http://www.zenoah.co.jp/int/products/chainsaws/g621/

http://www.zenoah.co.jp/int/products/chainsaws/g6200/

The only difference I see is the weight spec, which is 12.13 lbs for the G621 and 12.35 lbs for the G6200 - and I measured 12.4lbs on my clone. Also, many of these clones use some variant of "G6200" in their model number, just like this one (RD-G6200). My guess is that Zenoah makes the G6200 in China, just as they had a Japanese made GZ4000 and a Chinese made GZ400, and that these may be coming out of that same facility (maybe through the back door).


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## 7sleeper (Mar 30, 2015)

Don't quite agree chris-pa! The chinese clones I have seen sofar are never close to the power or weight ratings of the original!
As far as I see it the copies have a weight increase which would be quite in line with a material change from mag to only aluminum. That would also explain the one of the reasons for the price drop compared to the original.

7


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## Chris-PA (Mar 30, 2015)

7sleeper said:


> Don't quite agree chris-pa! The chinese clones I have seen sofar are never close to the power or weight ratings of the original!
> As far as I see it the copies have a weight increase which would be quite in line with a material change from mag to only aluminum. That would also explain the one of the reasons for the price drop compared to the original.
> 
> 7


Well, the G6200 _is_ heavier than the G621. And identical in weight to my clone.


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## bikemike (Mar 31, 2015)

Chris-PA said:


> View attachment 336713
> 
> View attachment 336711
> 
> ...


I think it needs a pipe from a go ped or ktm 50


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## motor head (Mar 31, 2015)

bikemike said:


> I think it needs a pipe from a go ped or ktm 50


I'd open the exhaust to 62 percent of the bore.If it's not a strato you could open it even further.


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## bikemike (Mar 31, 2015)

Hard to tell from pics. Was it a plated sleeve?


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## Chris-PA (Mar 31, 2015)

bikemike said:


> I think it needs a pipe from a go ped or ktm 50


Nah, just like with my ported Poulan, I use the thing and it would be in the way. Plus the porting was not set up for a pipe.



motor head said:


> I'd open the exhaust to 62 percent of the bore.If it's not a strato you could open it even further.


I'm pretty conservative on port widths, as I don't want the ring popping into the port and causing more wear. I've read you can go 60% or even more but I generally don't go beyond 55%. I have several ported saws that run very well that way - in spite of the fact that this was a "cheap" saw, it was still more than I have ever spent on a saw and I want it to hold up as a work saw. 



bikemike said:


> Hard to tell from pics. Was it a plated sleeve?


Do you mean the cylinder? It's chrome plated.


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## Jimbo209 (May 18, 2015)

Ive done this will run it soon, watya think




sent from a cracked screen


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## Chris-PA (May 18, 2015)

Jimbo209 said:


> Ive done this will run it soon, watya think
> View attachment 425434
> View attachment 425435
> 
> ...


Interesting - is it from one of the G5000 - based saws? What changes have you made to the ports?


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## 7sleeper (May 18, 2015)

Looks like you left a uvula standing... 

Hoping to see it run soon, looks good!

7


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## altair (May 21, 2015)

There's heaps of those saws here, and for the average home owner doing firewood they seem to do just fine. If run on 25:1 they seem to go for ages. They apparently hate synthetic oil, just need the "cheap" 2 stroke stuff. Here a decent quality Stihl or Husky around the 60cc range will cost you $1500 plus, so of course these things are popular, and I've seen a few which have done a LOT of work... Plus most guys only use them a few days a year. 
Great write up, and enjoy yourself with it, I think you will find it will last well.


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## nenicu (Jul 26, 2015)

Hey Chris-Pa. I have a real G621 in work and i looking for inspiration. Have you done anything to the piston of your clone?


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## Chris-PA (Jul 26, 2015)

nenicu said:


> Hey Chris-Pa. I have a real G621 in work and i looking for inspiration. Have you done anything to the piston of your clone?


No, I didn't touch the piston. For some reason I only took one shot of the piston, and none that shows the top. It was domed like most Zenoah pistons if I recall, which I think is a good thing. What is the squish clearance on the Zenoah engine?

All I did to mine was remove the base gasket, increase the intake port width and duration, and mod the muffler. I'm very happy with how it runs and have no real interest in changing it, although I do keep looking at larger carbs. 



I ran this saw quite a bit the last two days and it was flawless. I'm running a 20" McCulloch bar on it that I added some oil holes to, and it's a nice set up.


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## nenicu (Jul 26, 2015)

Thanks for the answer. I did not measure the squish . On the piston i rounded on both sides under the piston pin all that area as wide as the transfer port. This saw is still in pieces,butt i have a clone similar to those aussie clones [Baumr AG]. 72 cc, 50 mm piston. I did the same thing to the piston and it revs very fast. That one has ,like all clones, big squish. Same piston design as the original: domed piston top. I am looking for a bigger carb myself.


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## Chris-PA (Jul 26, 2015)

nenicu said:


> Thanks for the answer. I did not measure the squish . On the piston i rounded on both sides under the piston pin all that area as wide as the transfer port. This saw is still in pieces,butt i have a clone similar to those aussie clones [Baumr AG]. 72 cc, 50 mm piston. I did the same thing to the piston and it revs very fast. That one has ,like all clones, big squish. Same piston design as the original: domed piston top. I am looking for a bigger carb myself.


I'd like to have a 72cc version but I've never seen one on eBay in the US. I'm curious how big the carb on the 72cc is - the Chinese have a habit of making increased displacement versions of the Zenoah saws but keeping the original carb.


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## nenicu (Jul 27, 2015)

I just ended my quest for a bigger carb and i think a Walbro 199 should be just right : HDA 199 -16,66 venturi vs HDA 31c-15,08 venturi. The shafts have to be taken from the original carb.


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## Chris-PA (Jul 27, 2015)

nenicu said:


> I just ended my quest for a bigger carb and i think a Walbro 199 should be just right : HDA 199 -16,66 venturi vs HDA 31c-15,08 venturi. The shafts have to be taken from the original carb.


Does that get the impulse through the intake block, or does it have a separate fitting on the cover? Some of the larger carbs that have the the same shafts/levers have an external fitting which is too large to fit (and there's no place to connect it anyway). I'm fairly confident I could drill the missing passages in the carb and use a cover with no fitting, but I have not been motivated to make the effort yet.


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## nenicu (Jul 27, 2015)

The impulse is through the intake booth. It has the same intake setup like Husqvarna 346,353,350


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## nenicu (Sep 25, 2015)

Here is my clone. On the left side the clone with new impulse port on the case. The case is bigger and you can't swap cilinders: the bolt pattern is diferent and the 72 cc jug is larger .


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## nenicu (Sep 25, 2015)

Next. This clone is 72 cc and the original carb was 15.8 venturi[ hda 31 clone]. I had this new chinese carb for about 1 year: a Husky 365-372 carb and today i made the swap .I had to make another accel linkage and switch the choke , drill a hole for the acceleration rod , make an impulse port on the case. It runs,starts ok but needs more carb work.


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## nenicu (Sep 25, 2015)

For Chris-Pa: for the Zenoah i am lookin' for a Walbro HDA 199 from a Husky 357-359. Has 16,6 6 venturi and same impulse setup like the Zenoah carb. Just swap the shafts and that is it. About the piston: i have seen on Ebay a Partner 65 piston whith the same shape on the transfer sides.It leaves more space for the transfer ports. Edit : the piston with the sides like mine belongs to a Partner 100[100 cc].


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## GerrySM (Aug 17, 2016)

Got to page 6 of this thread and it became TL;DR, but I'd like to thank Chris for the link that brought me here and for dissecting this saw and convincing me that it would not be worth my while to buy a Chinese saw, ever. Thanks muchly.


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## Chris-PA (Aug 17, 2016)

GerrySM said:


> Got to page 6 of this thread and it became TL;DR, but I'd like to thank Chris for the link that brought me here and for dissecting this saw and convincing me that it would not be worth my while to buy a Chinese saw, ever. Thanks muchly.


LOL. They're surely not for everyone.


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## ken morgan (Aug 25, 2016)

good write up Chris. 

Living in japan I see a lot of clones floating about (cue in Weird Al's "I think I'm a clone now") and surprisingly at least 90% of the small japanese engines (.5 to 12 hp) are made in china now, including all of the big names like honda, yamaha, kawasaki, yanmar, and robin. 

The difference is that the japanese have an engineer, QC specialist, and a manger working at the plants to train, oversea and supervise. Yamaha and honda go as far as to have a supervisor at every plant that feeds the main factory parts to ensure that all parts and raw materials are to spec. 

I know this because my japanese brother in law works for a trade company and regularly travels there.

So you basically have the same item with minor changes, and looser QC on the line.


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## Chris-PA (Aug 25, 2016)

ken morgan said:


> good write up Chris.
> 
> Living in japan I see a lot of clones floating about (cue in Weird Al's "I think I'm a clone now") and surprisingly at least 90% of the small japanese engines (.5 to 12 hp) are made in china now, including all of the big names like honda, yamaha, kawasaki, yanmar, and robin.
> 
> ...


If you look at this Zenoah site: http://www.zenoah.co.jp/int/products/chainsaws/ you'll see they have both a G621 and G6200, with almost identical specs but for a little different weight. "G6200" is the model number used on many of the clones, and they usually have an aluminum case rather than more magnesium, so the weight difference would make sense. Several other of the saws on that page are ones that are more commonly sold as clones than as Zenoah, such as the G5200. Also, Zenoah sold both the GZ4000 and the GZ400, which was the same basic design but the GZ400 was assembled in China. So I suspect this all stems from a production agreement Zenoah had in the days before Husqvarna bought them, and I don't know how much of that still exists. 

Mine just keeps cranking along - this was all bucked with a 25" bar, with no fuss.


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## ken morgan (Aug 25, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> So I suspect this all stems from a production agreement Zenoah had in the days before Husqvarna bought them, and I don't know how much of that still exists.
> 
> Mine just keeps cranking along - this was all bucked with a 25" bar, with no fuss.
> View attachment 521517




You are probably correct. nothing wrong if it keeps going. I currently have two saws one is a poulan pp4218 from 2012 and one is a 372xp that was rebuilt sold on fleabay. the only reason I bought the 372 is for larger logs and trees that I have been running into lately. the poulan contrary to the online reviews is a great little saw 2 years in and 14 cords of wood prior to the purchase of the 372 and it still starts on the first pull every time.


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## GerrySM (Mar 29, 2017)

GerrySM said:


> Got to page 6 of this thread and it became TL;DR, but I'd like to thank Chris for the link that brought me here and for dissecting this saw and convincing me that it would not be worth my while to buy a Chinese saw, ever. Thanks muchly.



Oh the irony! I ended up buying one of these Chinese things, could not resist at the price (US$66 delivered from eBay. comes with TWO chains). Don't have it yet, still in the mail.


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## Big_Wood (Mar 29, 2017)

Chris-PA said:


> If you look at this Zenoah site: http://www.zenoah.co.jp/int/products/chainsaws/ you'll see they have both a G621 and G6200, with almost identical specs but for a little different weight. "G6200" is the model number used on many of the clones, and they usually have an aluminum case rather than more magnesium, so the weight difference would make sense. Several other of the saws on that page are ones that are more commonly sold as clones than as Zenoah, such as the G5200. Also, Zenoah sold both the GZ4000 and the GZ400, which was the same basic design but the GZ400 was assembled in China. So I suspect this all stems from a production agreement Zenoah had in the days before Husqvarna bought them, and I don't know how much of that still exists.
> 
> Mine just keeps cranking along - this was all bucked with a 25" bar, with no fuss.
> View attachment 521517



how many times did you have to rering the top end to get that job done?


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## Chris-PA (Mar 29, 2017)

GerrySM said:


> Oh the irony! I ended up buying one of these Chinese things, could not resist at the price (US$66 delivered from eBay. comes with TWO chains). Don't have it yet, still in the mail.
> 
> View attachment 568940


LOL - looks rather nice, especially the air filter arrangement. That's based on a different Zenoah model though, the G5000 instead of the G621. I've been tempted to try one of that series, but I just haven't had the motivation. I suspect with a little conventional squish, port and muffler work it will run quite well. The carb might be a bit on the small side though.



westcoaster90 said:


> how many times did you have to rering the top end to get that job done?


It wasn't bad at all! I got 2 or 3 rounds per ring, I buy them by the dozen and I can change them pretty fast in the woods. I find if just loosen the cylinder bolts at idle and give the throttle blurb it'll pop the jug right off. Pop on a new ring, slop a little bar oil on it and slam the jug back on, and you're back up and running in minutes!


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## TBS (Mar 29, 2017)

I thought you bought them by the pound? I buy by the suitcase full, just yank the top, rubber band the cylinder back on, and I'm on to the next cut. Nice write up chris. How has this saw held up?


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## Chris-PA (Mar 30, 2017)

Nathan lassley said:


> I thought you bought them by the pound? I buy by the suitcase full, just yank the top, rubber band the cylinder back on, and I'm on to the next cut. Nice write up chris. How has this saw held up?


Saw is dead solid reliable. The only thing that doesn't work properly is the high idle throttle lock. I've never bothered to make it work because the saw starts in a couple of pulls hot or cold, goes right to a nice idle and never stalls.


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## Big_Wood (Mar 30, 2017)

you should post a pic of the carb Chris? i got a bin i'll peak through to see if i have anything larger with minimal match up work. do you think it's a walbro or zama copy? i got a zama c3m from an 044 that might be a good candidate.


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## nenicu (Mar 30, 2017)

Chinese air injection


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## CristiRo (Mar 30, 2017)

Just some intake work in my Chinese 4500 chainsaw.
Advacend the timing by 1/3rd of the key. Runs great, but the transfers don't match exactly with the crankcase.

Here is how I improved my cooling on my Chinese chainsaw.
It is way better now!

And I added a dual port muffler.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 1, 2017)

westcoaster90 said:


> you should post a pic of the carb Chris? i got a bin i'll peak through to see if i have anything larger with minimal match up work. do you think it's a walbro or zama copy? i got a zama c3m from an 044 that might be a good candidate.


I believe the original G621 carb was an HDA31, and the clone is definitely an HDA-based design:



Other than the impulse port an HDA-137 or HDA-164 would almost be a bolt on with a larger venturi. I had planned on trying something like that at one point, but the saw works so well I've decided to leave it alone and use it. 

I know there is more power there if I cut the jug and drop the squish down to 0.020" and add a larger carb, but sometimes it's better not to mess with success.


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## Big_Wood (Apr 1, 2017)

what's the stock venturi on that thing? and when ABDC does the intake open?


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## Chris-PA (Apr 1, 2017)

westcoaster90 said:


> what's the stock venturi on that thing? and when ABDC does the intake open?


It's a 15mm venturi. The intake opens at 79.5deg (159deg duration). The HDA-137 & 164 are 16.7mm, which would be more appropriate. I could also bore one out.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 1, 2017)

CristiRo said:


> Just some intake work in my Chinese 4500 chainsaw.
> Advacend the timing by 1/3rd of the key. Runs great, but the transfers don't match exactly with the crankcase.
> 
> Here is how I improved my cooling on my Chinese chainsaw.
> ...


Nice! Did you do any work on the exhaust port?


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## Big_Wood (Apr 2, 2017)

Chris-PA said:


> It's a 15mm venturi. The intake opens at 79.5deg (159deg duration). The HDA-137 & 164 are 16.7mm, which would be more appropriate. I could also bore one out.



i bet it would respond well to a bigger carb with that duration. that thing was 62cc? rig an HD12 to it lol


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## CristiRo (Apr 2, 2017)

Chris-PA said:


> Nice! Did you do any work on the exhaust port?



No!
But i have in plan lowering the cylinder to set the squish.
After I took that lip of the intake and polished somehow, for better flow, it seems to run richer now.
I have the timing advanced by 1/3rd of the key.
Running the stock carb like this: L: 1 and 1/4 out and H: 3/4 and still 4-strokes in the cut sometimes.
I attached a picture with the base gasket. The grey one is cut after the case, and the green one is the stock.
I tried to measure the timing, but don't know how accurate the readings are: Intake 80, Exhaust: 103, Transfers: 123, with the gasket.
I would like to try a bigger cylinder on it, a 5200 cylinder kit. And than port that jug. I don't have specialty tools so don't mess with the transfer timing. Just intake and exhaust.
The exhaust it smallll!!!!

P.S.: I tried a friends Chinese Craft-Tec chainsaw. Man...that saw had huge compression. Brand new!
Anybody measured the stock squish on these Chinese saws?


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## Chris-PA (Apr 2, 2017)

CristiRo said:


> No!
> But i have in plan lowering the cylinder to set the squish.
> After I took that lip of the intake and polished somehow, for better flow, it seems to run richer now.
> I have the timing advanced by 1/3rd of the key.
> ...


The timing numbers are decent though, so maybe widen the exhaust?


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## CristiRo (Apr 2, 2017)

Chris-PA said:


> so maybe widen the exhaust?



Maybe! I'll have to measure width of the piston to see how far can I go.

I would try to lower the cylinder by eliminating the gasket, but i'm afraid that I could have leaks...


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## Chris-PA (Apr 2, 2017)

CristiRo said:


> Maybe! I'll have to measure width of the piston to see how far can I go.
> 
> I would try to lower the cylinder by eliminating the gasket, but i'm afraid that I could have leaks...


It's not a problem if you have access to any of the case sealants discussed here. Motorcycle shops should well something equivalent. Many of my saws are clamshells, but I think all of the ones that are not have had their gaskets removed.


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## GerrySM (Apr 3, 2017)

Just received the new chinese clone saw, assembled it (with some difficulty because the combination brake-cover fits badly), new fuel, new oil, starts easily, but in my first big cut, with warm engine, it just dies when full throttle is applied. Have to use choke again for a single pull then then choke off and it restarts in a puff of smoke, only to die again. Cannot complete a decent sized cut. Any suggestions?


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## TBS (Apr 3, 2017)

Increase the high speed adjustment a 1/4 turn and report back, also make sure everything is tight and all the lines are good. All of my saws have done that at some point.


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## GerrySM (Apr 3, 2017)

Yes, I was hoping it's just a carby adjustment. My instinct is that it's running too rich, just needed that confirmed. Thanks


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## GerrySM (Apr 3, 2017)

Hmm, adjusted clockwise ¼ turn, ran better (definitely) started cut well but after 5-10 seconds sounded choked up under full throttle in cut, then stalled. Had to use choke with one or two pulls to get the carb clear, then choke off and it started again with a couple of pulls. Advanced H a little more, problem still there. Should I just keep on turning H clockwise?

Brand new saw. Wonder if I should just turn L and H to their extremes and work back?

Note: running at 20:1, as advised by manual during the first 20 hours, before moving to 25:1 after 20 hours. Wonder if that is making everything too rich?


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## TBS (Apr 3, 2017)

You wont have any problems running 40-1, that mix is recommended because of lower quality oils in China. Turn both screws all the way in (count the turns) then back each one out a turn. The more oil in the gas the richer the carb setting needs to be.


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## 7sleeper (Apr 4, 2017)

I would use1:50 fuel mix. There is absolut no reason to do anything ealse with modern 2 stroke oils. Futher I would fully adjust the carb and not only one part.

7


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## TBS (Apr 4, 2017)

Bogging after 5-10 seconds could be a fuel pickup issue, needle valve may need adjustment or there is a restriction in the line.


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## GerrySM (Apr 4, 2017)

Nathan lassley said:


> Bogging after 5-10 seconds could be a fuel pickup issue, needle valve may need adjustment or there is a restriction in the line.



Does not stall out unless I get into a full throttle in cut situation. Will do little cuts all day no problem.

If I ease off on throttle in a big cut, comes back to life (aborts stall) and I can continue.


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## TBS (Apr 4, 2017)

It's not pulling enough fuel to the carburetor at wide open throttle under heavy load.


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## GerrySM (Apr 4, 2017)

Maybe, but then why would the adjustment to the carb help, as it did? Definitely better after the adjustment, took longer to stall


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## TBS (Apr 4, 2017)

Nathan lassley said:


> Turn both screws all the way in (count the turns) then back each one out a turn. The more oil in the gas the richer the carb setting needs to be.



Start from zero, even back the idle speed screw out.


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## CristiRo (Apr 4, 2017)

Close both needles and try like this:
L -1 and 1/4
H - 1
Mine works fine like this 
I use Husqvarna LS+ in my chinese saw 33:1. 
It is very much like the manual said, 20:1 then 25:1.


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## GerrySM (Apr 4, 2017)

Thanks Cristi, will try that.

What does Chris-PA think?


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## CristiRo (Apr 4, 2017)

Also, I had a new Chinese saw, that even with the carb readjusted when at full throttle it would die down after 1-2 seconds. It ended up being a bad carb...


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## GerrySM (Apr 4, 2017)

Okay, adjusted as advised, not able to go into paddock and test high speed, but idle was moving the chain after L and H was adjusted, so turned T back - fixed. Attempt to gun the engine showed the engine was reluctant, when cold, to accelerate. Tried to bog on acceleration (blade not in a cut). Got slightly better as engine warmed up. I presume L needs to be tweaked. That's all the testing I could do here, getting dark.

Interesting what the filter looks like; I've asked for a replacement. Also, I had to ream out the hole in the air filter cover so the twist screw that holds it down could meet the female part at the right angle.


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## Thommo (Apr 4, 2017)

If it still gives trouble after adjusting the carb i would look at replacing the impulse hose next. I have struck a few of that model saw that have an impulse hose that is too thin in the wall and will suck in when the saw warms up, causing it to run lean because the fuel pump will not pump when the saw is warm. I have had one that melted the plastic impulse nipple on the crankcase that caused it to run lean too.


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## Chris-PA (Apr 4, 2017)

The first thing I would try is to get the tuning right, but I cannot tell if it's rich or lean. It's an entirely conventional carb so tuning should be just like with anything else. Although I would not run it at 20:1! Mine is fine at 40:1.

If it can't be fixed by tuning then I'd be looking for some sort of fuel flow restriction.

Did the cover do that to the filter, or was the filter messed up to begin with? Often these things need plastic flashing cleaned up as they skip that step - just like Stihl did on my Dad's MS250.


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## CristiRo (Apr 4, 2017)

Anybody tried to swapt that plastic nipple impulse from the crankcase with a metal one? 
I hade my case apart but I coudn't unscrew that nipple so I lefted like that.


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## GerrySM (Apr 4, 2017)

Thommo said:


> If it still gives trouble after adjusting the carb i would look at replacing the impulse hose next.



Thanks Thommo, that will be my next step if the tuning fails.



Chris-PA said:


> Although I would not run it at 20:1! Mine is fine at 40:1



Just following the manual.






Chris-PA said:


> Did the cover do that to the filter, or was the filter messed up to begin with?



The damaged side was facing down, to the chassis. The seating area looks free of malformation problems, so ... just a bum filter.


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## Thommo (Apr 4, 2017)

CristiRo said:


> Anybody tried to swapt that plastic nipple impulse from the crankcase with a metal one?
> I hade my case apart but I coudn't unscrew that nipple so I lefted like that.


The nipple is a press fit. The bottom part that is pressed into the crankcase is brass with plastic molded onto it. i just pulled it straight out with a pair of pliers. I made a new nipple by breaking the plastic off the original one and making a new top half out of brass and then silver soldering the two pieces together.


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## GerrySM (Apr 4, 2017)

Okay, I pulled L out another half turn and it guns easily and quickly. Needed to be slightly richer.

Raining now, so cannot go out and test H in wood cuts. But I turned it back another ½ turn (richer) because I believe it's better to be a little too rich than lean on that end. We'll see. It's still much less rich than it was.

I see from the other thread on chinese saws that one of the most common complaints is that they come set waaaaay too rich from factory.


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## GerrySM (Apr 7, 2017)

It's running well now. L is out about 1.75 turns, H is out 1.5 turns. 

Manual states L should be 1.25 (much too lean, won't accelerate) and H should be 1.4, which is about right (but much leaner than they sent it from factory).

Cut some big timber, drained the bar oil, drained fuel, ran the carb dry at idle, and into storage it goes as a backup in case any more big trees fall here. Meanwhile, for all the small chainsaw work, I'll keep using my little battery-driven Makita chainsaw with olive oil as bar oil. 

Oh, and BTW the eBay seller of the Chinese saw (Giantz brand) is sending me a new air filter, gratis.


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## Leafy (May 2, 2018)

Let's keep this long ass thread going. Looks like these are now being sold in the states under the x-bull brand now for 150. I put in an offer on ebay to for 135, see if they take it. Chris is yours still going strong? Also what size offset keys for the crank does this use I want to throw some in my next mcmaster order.


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## Schipp (May 19, 2019)

Very interesting!! Thank you Chris!


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## B-man (May 15, 2020)

This is probably necroing an old thread but see its replied to off and on.
I have bought a few Baumr-ag saws from ebay in Australia. I bloody love them.
Once you understand its not in the same range as a stihl or husky your good to go.
Ive used a mates stihl and its definitely better but for me to cut 10 ton of wood a year for heating I couldnt justify the price.
I started off with the 66cc and then got a 62cc (knowing they probably werent that size) i think they combine the barrel and head cc's to get that rating....
Used them both for a few years then got a 75cc purely because of the better looking air filter. Then won a 92cc from a competition with the distributor edisons ebay store. So sold off the 62cc and 66cc ones.
All i done on them was tune the carbies up. I ended up selling them for more than I paid as they cost more to buy new by that stage. Both only done about 8 hours.
I run castrol power1 oil at 20:1 i have pulled the plugs out and the piston still looks new. I could probably run them at 40 or 50:1 but for the little bit of extra oil its worth it IMO.
The 75cc started and adjusted the carb and off i went.
The 92cc that I won looks like it was a return that they sent as it had some marks was missing packaging and when i started it it was having issues. I couldnt adjust the carb enough to get it to run.
Worked out it must be sucking air so 10 minutes later had the carb off and removed a metal ring that was in the rubber mount holding the carb to barrel. Figured that was causing the rubber mount not to seal properly. Bolted it back together and worked perfectly. 
the chain adjuster broke on it but think that was when I had the missus adjusting the chain and she didnt loosen the nuts off...
All in all running 2 saws for under $400 (price of 72cc was $125 and 92cc was $250) when i got them a yr n half ago. I couldnt get anything close in stihl or husky and if i break 1 I still have the other one and can swap parts between. And just buy another.
Pity the price has gone up quite a bit lately and now they are also charging shipping so would re evaluate if they ever break.


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## jimbojonesau (May 15, 2020)

I'm new here, but yeah,I agree with what you said.

There certainly seems to be quite a bit of difference in quality between the different brands available.
I'm also in Australia and have had a baumr-ag (62cc mk3) for a while, I recently realized I've had it 4 years, hasn't missed a beat, only issue is of course the air filter setup, I've modified it but will be fitting up a proper pleated one shortly.
I honestly think it is similar in performance to my 034 stihl, which I think is impressive, considering it was originally $159 AU delivered.
I think they are now pushing nearly $300.
I've just bought another 62 cc saw, is much the same, but is one of the earlier 62cc saws available standard in aus with the better air filter, double post chain brake handle, auto lock/release choke and just generally better build quality. It's a perla barb brand, time will tell what it holds up like but it seems good.
Cheers
James


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## Leafy (May 15, 2020)

That new one you bought sounds like a husky 365 copy.


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## jimbojonesau (May 15, 2020)

My


Leafy said:


> That new one you bought sounds like a husky 365 copy.


me?
I think it is another rework on a zenoah, but if you think it's worth investigating,I shall!


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## Leafy (May 15, 2020)

I don't think any of the zenoah clones had double post chain brakes. If the local aus prices have gone up so much you might as well just order direct from aliexpress or huztl.


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## B-man (May 15, 2020)

Shipping has gone up from there too. Im trying to get some still parts for my other project but they want $50us for freight! 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## Leafy (May 15, 2020)

B-man said:


> Shipping has gone up from there too. Im trying to get some still parts for my other project but they want $50us for freight!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Idk about to Australia but huztl seems to always offer free shipping on assembled saws.


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## jimbojonesau (May 15, 2020)

I haven't got a photo of it, but it has an outboard clutch, So here are a couple pics I do have:


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## Leafy (May 15, 2020)

Yeah that's a zenoah clone. Why world they make a new upper plastic and new brake flag? Those don't break, it's the thin tube wrap handles that break when you treat it like a $100 saw.


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## jimbojonesau (May 16, 2020)

I'm guessing they had to redesign the top cover for the filter anyway, maybe the "stronger" brake setup tricks unsuspecting lads (me) and ladies into buying it as it stands out from the crowd a bit.
To be fair, the handle does seem more robust than the other cheapies I've got here, but time will tell.
I only bought it as it was powerhead only -I have a few spare bars and make my own chains, and only about $150 au delivered, and had the much better filter, I've only done a bit with it, but there was dust in the filter and all around the carb, but spotless inside the intake as it should be.


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## B-man (May 16, 2020)

This is my 92cc clone of something


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## B-man (May 16, 2020)

And my 75cc clone


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## jimbojonesau (May 16, 2020)

I think the 92 is a husky, the 75 looks like anther zenoah clone, how old is it?
I'd be really suss that it is 75cc.
Does it go better than the 62 I think you said you had?


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## B-man (May 16, 2020)

jimbojonesau said:


> I'd be really suss that it is 75cc.
> Does it go better than the 62 I think you said you had?


Oh im 100% sure its not actual 75cc and the 62cc probably wasnt 62cc.

In regards to porting these saws what are people changing on them?


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## jimbojonesau (May 16, 2020)

I think that maybe the 62cc saws are actually pretty much that - 61.5cc or there about, someone else will correct that!
I believe on the smaller zenoah clones, checking squish, and then upgrading the intake,and changing the carb to a husky 365 / 372 type seems to give the best performance upgrade, then maybe porting after that.
I'd love to see the specs on the carby in the 75cc , that saw really looks like a v1 baumr 62cc, but with a filter upgrade, I see they are advertised everywhere as 75 though with the "dual filtration" setup.
Does it have the easy pull start setup? Or is it direct pull?


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## B-man (May 16, 2020)

jimbojonesau said:


> I think that maybe the 62cc saws are actually pretty much that - 61.5cc or there about, someone else will correct that!
> I believe on the smaller zenoah clones, checking squish, and then upgrading the intake,and changing the carb to a husky 365 / 372 type seems to give the best performance upgrade, then maybe porting after that.
> I'd love to see the specs on the carby in the 75cc , that saw really looks like a v1 baumr 62cc, but with a filter upgrade, I see they are advertised everywhere as 75 though with the "dual filtration" setup.
> Does it have the easy pull start setup? Or is it direct pull?


Its advertised as the easy pull start. And it is easy to start.
Ill get some more pics tomorrow. What else were you after?


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## jimbojonesau (May 16, 2020)

I'm good, I would be interested in the carby size, but that's too hard!


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## Leafy (May 16, 2020)

Yeah for the 5200 style ones, be they 45, 52, or 58cc the best power with the least effort is to make sure it's a quad port cylinder, these have little fins on the very top of the cylinder like pointing up, then put a bigger diameter intake on it and a 372 carb. To do the 372 carb you just have to put the choke lever from the stock carb on 372 choke shaft and drill a hole on the throttle lever in the same spot as the stock carb. And make sure your squish is around 40thou some are right there out of the box, some are head tappers and some are not even close to hitting. In my experience the stock timing is pretty damn decent. Oh and if you have a 2 port muffler add a 3rd port the same size as the other two and if you have a 1 port muffler add a 2nd port the same size as the other. If you have a 3 port muffler get a 1 port and mod it, the 3 ports actually have the worse flow of the stock mufflers because the ports are tiny.


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## TBS (May 16, 2020)

B-man said:


> Oh im 100% sure its not actual 75cc and the 62cc probably wasnt 62cc.
> 
> In regards to porting these saws what are people changing on them?



One way to tell the size of the cylinder is to look for a number or brand cast on the base. Xbull saws advertised as 62cc say 52cc on the cylinder base.


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## Thommo (May 16, 2020)

The SX92 is a copy of a Husky 372 XP. It has a 50mm bore and 37MM stroke so is only 72cc. I have got one too and pulled it down to check bore and stroke. I have only altered the lower transfer ports and put a second outlet on the muffler which helped t a fair bit. I have got a 52mm cylinder to try on it one day when i get time. The SX 62 are very close to 62cc and the later quad transfer port cylinders are a lot better because the transfer ports are higher. I have ported earlier 62cc cylinders and ended up grinding through the casting trying to get the transfer ports high enough.


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## B-man (May 16, 2020)

The sx75 says yinba on the carb
Looks like it has fins on top so its the quad port?
It has 5900 on the bottom side of the barrel so what cc is it?
And the 2 port exhaust
As for easy start how do you tell that?









Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## jimbojonesau (May 16, 2020)

Thanks Thommo for that info,

B-man, I think that'd mean 59cc.
I have seriously had so little issue with the sx62 that I have never had the starter off, or the top cover or anything.

I will go and do it now though, just for info, from what I've seen though, the easy pull start on the bigger saws has an unusual shape starter cover, similar to that perla barb one I put up, the baumr definitely has an easier starter than the perla, but the perla is easier than the other Chinese saws I have.
I'd be a bit annoyed if I bought a 75cc saw that was clearly much smaller, but I guess it gets back to if you are happy with the price and performance, what's the loss?


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## jimbojonesau (May 16, 2020)

Just to add that I'll probably now discover my 62 is actually 52... ! But as I said, I bought the saw to do a job, and it does, so I'm happy.


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## B-man (May 16, 2020)

It has bigger bar and chain than the 62cc i had. Sound and cuts better, better air filter whick is the reason i got it and only cost me $125 and sold the 62cc for the same price So thats either saying the 62cc i had wasnt 62cc or this one is a better port and exhaust design. Either way im happy im not fussed about the cc if it does the job.


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## jimbojonesau (May 16, 2020)

Agreed


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## jimbojonesau (May 16, 2020)

So I quickly went and checked, the 45 cc saw has 45f stamped on the cylinder base, the 52 has LW, and the 62 had nothing.
The baumr starter has a 2 piece setup where the inner piece is connected to the cord drum via a spring.
Here's a pic:

I'm not that fat!
So baumr on the left ,standard Chinese right,
The Flywheels are also different.


Whilst doing this I realised I have never even pulled the plug before! Still running the Chinese original.
And here's the different shaped starter cover:


I think I only have the standard cylinder


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## Leafy (May 17, 2020)

For the muffler ports in taking about the outlets.


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## B-man (May 17, 2020)

Leafy said:


> For the muffler ports in taking about the outlets.


Do you grind a hole and add another tube or not worry about it


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## Leafy (May 17, 2020)

B-man said:


> Do you grind a hole and add another tube or not worry about it


I drilled a hole and added welded in another tube, for looks. You can probably just drill another hole and be fine


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## jimbojonesau (Jun 1, 2020)

More pics of the perla barb,for anyone that's interested... so quite a few little changes,nothing major, top cover has heat shield on it and removable air duct of some sort.
Chain brake setup is somewhat different, and the molding for the alloy housing has been altered as well.
It's not pictured but the tank caps are also of better quality than some others I have, and it also has the double spring recoil setup.
Cheers


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