# just finished 20 ft csm on wheels



## greasefittn (May 23, 2012)

will post pict on the mill . Took about 6 weeks to make 42 inch bar 18 hp 2cyl briggs 2inch sq tubing main frame . complete mill weighs 1100lbs made fenders from 55gal barrel hubs from 98 mitsu car rear hubs ford wheels. hardest part was making carrage slide up and down freeley.


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## discounthunter (May 23, 2012)

sounds awesome, lets get to picture taken!


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## redheadwoodshed (May 24, 2012)

I can't wait to see the pics.Sounds like we have some ideas in common.


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## redheadwoodshed (May 31, 2012)

opcorn:


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## SDB777 (Jun 2, 2012)

Did you drop the film off at WalMart for developing yet?




Scott (needin' CSM purn pics) B


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## greasefittn (Aug 10, 2012)

*pictures*

I hope these came out Im pushing buttons hopin this works


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## greasefittn (Aug 10, 2012)

*20 ft csm pictures*

I hope these come out


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 10, 2012)

That's nice! How's it cut?You had some good ideas there.


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## PhilB (Aug 10, 2012)

Looks plenty strong with all your diagonnal bracing.

Phil


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## BobL (Aug 10, 2012)

Very good!

Some pics of it in action would be even better!


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## greasefittn (Aug 10, 2012)

*csm update*

been milling beach some 25 -30 inch 12 foot logs cuts realy good. this beach wood is beautyful to work with. just built a 28 ft handycap ramp with hemlock and ash posts, with beach deck and handrail. owner wanted just thompsons water seal on it ..just hope it stays pretty. now that I know how to use this site I will post a vid of the mill running.


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## mikeb1079 (Aug 13, 2012)

looks a little light duty to me 

kidding of course. that's some fine looking bracing. and mill :msp_biggrin:


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## Sawyer Rob (Aug 13, 2012)

greasefittn said:


> been milling beach some 25 -30 inch 12 foot logs cuts realy good. this beach wood is beautyful to work with. just built a 28 ft handycap ramp with hemlock and ash posts, with beach deck and handrail. owner wanted just thompsons water seal on it ..just hope it stays pretty. now that I know how to use this site I will post a vid of the mill running.



Ash post? They wouldn't last more than a couple years near the ground here...

SR


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## scor440 (Aug 13, 2012)

Nice mill.What i dont understand is why use a jackshaft?Why cant you run the saw clutch and sprocket off the engine shaft?This company in Russia did i think.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geQold6y2qI&feature=related


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## greasefittn (Aug 13, 2012)

*mill drive system*

the electric clutch on engine is 5 inch pully, the pully on the jack shaft is 3 inch (the smallest one that is made for a 1 inch shaft taper lock) . i turned down the shaft end to .498 and used a large stihl clutch drum end that i turned off the drum with a wizzer and pressed it on to the shaftend, used a replaceable 8 pin gear and held that on with a snap ring in a grove in the end of the end of the shaft. any way, the ahaft runs at 5500 rpms or so , the only problem is that it has a hard problem getting all 18 hp through one b belt when cutting 25 inch and larger hard wood , oak hickory and larger ash and beach.I have been playing with raker angles and top plate angles trying to get rid of vibration and have kinda decided that faster chain speed will help. The only good thing about running the chain speed slow is the bar getts a break . Most chain saws run at 9500+ rpms. the reason that i chose the speed that i did is that i started milling with a homelite 1050 that when tuned way rich only runs at 6000 +- so I designed the mill to the same speed. If any one has a way to get rid of vibration, im all ears. It almost seems like hrymonics . I knew there would be some vibration, thats why i used a belt instead of chain for the drive.


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## greasefittn (Aug 13, 2012)

*ash post*

I know that it should be locust or pressure treated for posts but my buddy said just make the ramp out of what you got because its gonna last longer than i got left. so ,


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## mad murdock (Aug 14, 2012)

Building that truss structure must have taken some time,
Great looking build!


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## greasefittn (Aug 14, 2012)

*more mill pictures*

here are some more pictures , havent ran mill in over a week ,its been raining cats and dogs every day


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## mad murdock (Aug 14, 2012)

What kind of speed are you seeing with that mill set up like you have in the pics (Feet per minute)?


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## greasefittn (Aug 14, 2012)

*cutting speed*

with hemlock or red cedar it rips right along as fast as you can wind the winch but with oak or sugar maple it is quite slow . under 25 inch or so logs its ok 25 in up it slows down more than 50% The problem that i have is one b belt lasts about 50 hrs or so ,but the engine has enough power to smoke the belt in 1 or 2 hard wood cuts if you push it. the engine has enough power, but you cant get through 1 belt. winter project is to change the system to 2 belts


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## mad murdock (Aug 15, 2012)

Tha ks for the reply on the feed speed. What B/C are you using? .404 pitch? 3/8" pitch? I have had plans to build either a CSM or a Band mill head. CSM is less $$ initially, but probably a little slower than a Band of similar size to your 42" bar.


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## kpantherpro (Aug 16, 2012)

nice job on that build looks good, making a 4-stroker as well, is the vibration intermittant or is it constant, does it change or deminish when you change your belt out? might also want to make sure any pulley's are aligned and tight if there's any misalignment or wobble in those it will carry through. you may just have to find a way to dampen it, say rubber motor mounts, or some type of dampening sleeve at your engine or pullies a combination of the both may have that runnning smooth as silk. try the motor mounts first, i think you'll be surprised. i made my motor mounts out of some scrap 1/2" rubber i had, but even an old tire might work, just take an appropriate sized hole saw and make one for each mounting point of the engine to frame.


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## greasefittn (Aug 16, 2012)

*vibration*

the vibration seems to be coming from the chain its 3/8 063 173 links . the best cuts believe it or not are from 30 degree full chisel chain . I have found that the quality control of any chain is between 30 or so thousands either way of . 400 thousands top plate length . I took a new chain and found the shortest cutter .385, and shortened all to that length and for the most part it was smooth as glass . I have tryed 2 loops of granberg rip chain and i dont like the finish they leave.Its weavy but it cuts ok right out of the box. the most important part is to keep the 5 or 6 degree angle on the cutter to raker. after you cut all the cutters the same length, you have to check all the raker angles or it will chatter like crazy on hardwood, but cut ok on hemlock or pine . For a guy like me that got tired paying for wood for projects,the mill cuts fine ,but after using it this summer the winter project is a band carrage to fit the same base


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## greasefittn (Aug 16, 2012)

*direct drive saw*

I watched the vid of the direct drive saw and im sure that it will work, it looks like a 5 or 6 hp engne. however, the chain speed will be slow even with a 10 pin sprocket, as a 4 cycle makes its peak tq below its rated 3600 run speed. it might have a hidden jack shaft to speed things up a tad to a shaft speed of 8-10 k. id like to see one closer as it looks light in weight to move.


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 17, 2012)

greasefittn said:


> the vibration seems to be coming from the chain its 3/8 063 173 links . the best cuts believe it or not are from 30 degree full chisel chain . I have found that the quality control of any chain is between 30 or so thousands either way of . 400 thousands top plate length . I took a new chain and found the shortest cutter .385, and shortened all to that length and for the most part it was smooth as glass . I have tryed 2 loops of granberg rip chain and i dont like the finish they leave.Its weavy but it cuts ok right out of the box. the most important part is to keep the 5 or 6 degree angle on the cutter to raker. after you cut all the cutters the same length, you have to check all the raker angles or it will chatter like crazy on hardwood, but cut ok on hemlock or pine . For a guy like me that got tired paying for wood for projects,the mill cuts fine ,but after using it this summer the winter project is a band carrage to fit the same base



If I may ask, why are you switching to a band mill? Speed or quality? Are you going to get a horizontal shaft engine or have you got a gearbox or something to turn your drive horizontal. The reason I ask is because I can get those larger vertical shaft engines way cheaper than a horizontal of the same H.P. I want to build a mill but haven't decided yet.What do you think about a rear differential out of a small car hooked to a vertical shaft engine to turn the drive horizontal.You'd have to turn the input on the diff, straight up and they may cause a lubricating problem on the bearings there, but maybe a grease fitting could be added.Just some thoughts I've been having.
I suppose you could use the rearend off a lawn mower, but the axles don't seem stout enough for a bandsaw.


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## kpantherpro (Aug 17, 2012)

redheadwoodshed said:


> If I may ask, why are you switching to a band mill? Speed or quality? Are you going to get a horizontal shaft engine or have you got a gearbox or something to turn your drive horizontal. The reason I ask is because I can get those larger vertical shaft engines way cheaper than a horizontal of the same H.P. I want to build a mill but haven't decided yet.What do you think about a rear differential out of a small car hooked to a vertical shaft engine to turn the drive horizontal.You'd have to turn the input on the diff, straight up and they may cause a lubricating problem on the bearings there, but maybe a grease fitting could be added.Just some thoughts I've been having.
> I suppose you could use the rearend off a lawn mower, but the axles don't seem stout enough for a bandsaw.



problem with a rear dif is most often they are limited slip, and what that means to you is the axle that has the path of least resistance will be the one that spins, for iinstance you jack one wheel up off the ground on your car, the one in the air will be the one spinning while the one on the ground won't. you would have to modify it in some way, or add a locker, then there's gear ratio, i think the gearing would be way off to make it an effective mill, ideally from what i'm seeing you want a 2or3-1 ratio, for a bandmill i think you would be better off just going with a horizontal shaft, less engineering and less moving parts is usually a better design/better reliability.
hey Grease, how old is that bar? what kinda shape is it in? is it possible the tensioner has some flex in it, or you have the wrong sprocket, are you using auxillary oilers to keep everything nice and slickory? i know these are the simplest things but i find 9 out of 10, this is usually where a problems at, another thing i'm wondering is you mentioned your belt is slipping, i'm wondering if your getting a surging effect, where your chain isn't maintaing a constant speed, this would definately affect your cut quality as well vibration, on a csm your cut quality should be excellant, also maybe the chain your using is just too aggressive for the mill as it's set up now, might have to add that other belt and see if that works for you, i know you can order pullies already set up for double or triple belts, might be the way to go... another thought maybe a deeper sheave type pully that will grab the sides of the belt more. just some thoughts


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## Sawyer Rob (Aug 17, 2012)

kpantherpro said:


> problem with a rear dif is most often they are limited slip, and what that means to you is the axle that has the path of least resistance will be the one that spins, for iinstance you jack one wheel up off the ground on your car, the one in the air will be the one spinning while the one on the ground won't.



Actually, you mean the problem is most are NOT limited slip... You NEED limited slip to drive both wheels. (you can weld up the spiders though)

Adding to the thread: The REAL problem is, folks trying to save money with a vertical engine. In the process, it complicates the whole build! Also, everything added, like a rear end just robs more HP.

As for switching to a bandsaw mill: run both, a CSM and a BSM and look at how much faster, easier to push and how much more lumber you get out of a log compareing compareing a BSM over a CSM, it will then answer all your questions as to why switch to a BSM!

SR


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## kpantherpro (Aug 17, 2012)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Actually, you mean the problem is most are NOT limited slip... You NEED limited slip to drive both wheels. (you can weld up the spiders though)
> 
> Adding to the thread: The REAL problem is, folks trying to save money with a vertical engine. In the process, it complicates the whole build! Also, everything added, like a rear end just robs more HP.
> 
> ...



im sorry i have to disgree with you on the limited slip, limited slip was developed for tighter turning radius, and more control especailly where traction was needed but to be applied evenly so less loss of control would be experienced, it is considerd a safer drive system and most if not all of today's vehicle's use it, now posi- traction or welding the spiders up, or a locker, will force both wheels to spin at the same rate continually, and is desired in alot of applications where more power transfeered is ideally mainly as far as car related hot rods and four wheel drives.
as far as bsm and csm they both have thier places, it really depends on what you are doing and what your trying to achieve...


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## kpantherpro (Aug 17, 2012)

kpantherpro said:


> im sorry i have to disgree with you on the limited slip, limited slip was developed for tighter turning radius, and more control especailly where traction was needed but to be applied evenly so less loss of control would be experienced, it is considerd a safer drive system and most if not all of today's vehicle's use it, now posi- traction or welding the spiders up, or a locker, will force both wheels to spin at the same rate continually, and is desired in alot of applications where more power transfeered is ideally mainly as far as car related hot rods and four wheel drives.
> as far as bsm and csm they both have thier places, it really depends on what you are doing and what your trying to achieve...



oh adding to the hot rod and four wheel drives, most people seeking posi-traction in thier hot rods will swap out the limited slip dif for a posi-traction one. and the reason while most stock 4x4's get stuck is because they are limited slip, while this is excellant for snow and ice it's not good for sand and mud, that's why serious 4x enthusiasts add locker's so it still streetable but when off-roading available to them, ever seen a truck stuck one tire that's on solid ground isn't spinning but yet the one that's dug down in the mud is spinning away...limited slip

but i do agree with adding too much to try n save money, which in the long run will only end up costing you more labor, power, and eventually more money


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## Sawyer Rob (Aug 17, 2012)

You can disagree if you like, but any place i've ever been, seen or heard, the term limited slip has been used to descripe every kind of clutch pack possy ever devised, sometimes even used to describe the Detroit lockers...

Eaton, Govloc and all the others were and still are called "limited slips". Even my new truck has a "limited slip" axle, and it's a posatrack.

BTW, i have Detroit Lockers too...

I'm not sure what terms you use where you live, but in the car/truck/tractor world, limited slip means both wheels turn at the same time when power is applied.

SR

Hera ya go, Limited Slip Differential


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## kpantherpro (Aug 17, 2012)

ok yes you have a posi-track system, but if you go outside right now, and with out putting it in 4 wheel drive or locking the lockers or traction control and jack one wheel off the ground, the tire off the ground will spin and the other will stay stationary, this is your limited slip dif at work, and is how it should function so that if you are in ice or snow you won't slide all over the place,or lose control,it also provides more precise traction when cornering, so if he were to do this with a car dif for a bandsaw, and if he hooked one end up and left the other capped or to hang, the capped end or hanging end would be the end spinning, now if he bolted that end down or welded the end closed so it could not move the other end would start to spin, that is the way a limited slip dif works, please reread what you just posted in the description the first line pretty much says what i'm trying to get at...i'm not trying to argue with you but i've been around enough cars and worked on enough cars that this is just how it is, i can go out and do this to my f-150, my jeep or spyder and they all do it, my 63 nova ss also did it until i swapped the limited slip dif for a posi-traction one(wish i still had that car), it's also why on most cars when you do burnouts not that i would ever do anything like that.... you see one strip of rubber and the other tire doesn't leave a mark, now some more modern difs have electronic controls stock from the factory that if one tire is spinning too much will adjust the torque to the other wheel. but i doubt he'll be pulling a dif and controls from a newer car to do this...


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## Sawyer Rob (Aug 17, 2012)

kpantherpro said:


> ok yes you have a posi-track system, but if you go outside right now, and with out putting it in 4 wheel drive or locking the lockers or traction control and jack one wheel off the ground, the tire off the ground will spin and the other will stay stationary, this is your limited slip dif at work, and is how it should function so that if you are in ice or snow you won't slide all over the place,or lose control,it also provides more precise traction when cornering, so if he were to do this with a car dif for a bandsaw, and if he hooked one end up and left the other capped or to hang, the capped end or hanging end would be the end spinning, now if he bolted that end down or welded the end closed so it could not move the other end would start to spin, that is the way a limited slip dif works, please reread what you just posted in the description the first line pretty much says what i'm trying to get at...i'm not trying to argue with you but i've been around enough cars and worked on enough cars that this is just how it is, i can go out and do this to my f-150, my jeep or spyder and they all do it, my 63 nova ss also did it until i swapped the limited slip dif for a posi-traction one(wish i still had that car), it's also why on most cars when you do burnouts not that i would ever do anything like that.... you see one strip of rubber and the other tire doesn't leave a mark, now some more modern difs have electronic controls stock from the factory that if one tire is spinning too much will adjust the torque to the other wheel. but i doubt he'll be pulling a dif and controls from a newer car to do this...



First of all, my pu WILL drive off a jack with one wheel off the ground. I've already had that happen going through a ravine.

As for burnouts... Back in the day, i drag raced a bit. I had a 63 Impala SS, a 66 Impala SS and a few more. All had limited slip, possy rear ends (call them what ever you want) and all would burn out with both wheels spinning. I also had a 72 Chevy pu, that i spl. ordered with possy in both ends, so i'm telling you i do know from experience what i'm talking about.

I think you are confuseing a "soft" locking possy, thinking it won't lock up at all. It will and does, you just have to get one wheel spinning to get the positive lockup. Centrifugal force is needed to get complete lock up, one wheel spinning gives exactly that! 

BTW, i also now own 2 chevy pu's with Detroit Lockers in the rear and gear drive Gleasen Torsens in the front.

If you read the link i provided, it says it all, the limited slip WILL lock up and provide power to both wheels. The only time any one i've ever had wouldn't lock up completely, is one that had high milage and the clutch plates were worn OR the proper lube wasn't used in them..

Also, there are NO "electronic controls" in any common newer car controling the dif... They way they work is, they apply the brake to the spinning wheel. Brake the spinning wheel with an "open" dif, and the opposite wheel will start turning! 

I guess i've explained it the best i can here, even provideing a good link, so you have the floor and can believe what ever you want... lol

SR


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## greasefittn (Aug 17, 2012)

*band minn carrage*

I should have said resaw carrrage as i have a 3 car garage full of cants that i did before i built the mill. The 'mill' before was a homelite 1050 and a homemade 2X6 guide to make cants just to get the wood home I have lots of projects and although the csm works just fine it makes lotsa saw dust . the bsm carrage will fit right on the same base . I have 2 of the b&s 18 hp vertical shaft engines . Im trying to keep all of the 'running gear' as close to the same that i can


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 17, 2012)

Wow,I wonder how some of you guys get anything done the way yall can come up with reasons why you can't do something.I already knew that I would have too stop one axle from turning to put all the power into the other. I have the engines rearends and some other parts already, I also have chainsaw bars and chains, which I can maintain and sharpen.I can't do that with a band blade. If I wanted to set down and start ordering parts new, it wouldn't even be a question, I'd go with the bandmill.The problem with that is, is that that requires money.I would accept donations for a bandmill project, however.


Thanks greasefittn for sharing your mill.I like it!


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## kpantherpro (Aug 17, 2012)

i apologize for getting off tangent, wasn't planning on getting derailed like that, i'm just gonna let it go...obviously you are free to try whatever you like, i was trying to prepare you for what you may be in for so if you had to you could plan ahead, and as a builder of chainsaw mills i 've played around with my own bsm designs. i have a few bigger vertical shaft motors as well laying around, but i've just learned the simpler the better, before you know it you'll be modifying this to assemble that then modding this to fix that etc. etc. etc. anyway you decide i wish you the best on getting it done, and when you do let us know how it works.
Good luck


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 18, 2012)

kpantherpro said:


> i apologize for getting off tangent, wasn't planning on getting derailed like that, i'm just gonna let it go...obviously you are free to try whatever you like, i was trying to prepare you for what you may be in for so if you had to you could plan ahead, and as a builder of chainsaw mills i 've played around with my own bsm designs. i have a few bigger vertical shaft motors as well laying around, but i've just learned the simpler the better, before you know it you'll be modifying this to assemble that then modding this to fix that etc. etc. etc. anyway you decide i wish you the best on getting it done, and when you do let us know how it works.
> Good luck



I appreciate all the information I get here, that's why I come, there are guys here who have already done what I'd like to do, like you.Thanks. I've been off on a tangent or 2 myself.:msp_biggrin:


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## bigjohn1895 (Aug 24, 2012)

any chance on getting more info on your jack shaft pully system what size pulleys and where they are 
im in the planning stage of building a 4 cycle csm myself but im not sure what size pulleys i need and where


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## greasefittn (Aug 27, 2012)

*pully size*

the electric clutch on the engine is 5 inch. the pully on the 1 inch jack shaft is 3 inch. the 3 inch is the smallest pulley that is made for the taper lock. system. the bottom end of the 1 inch shaft is turned down to .502 thousands and a stihl large mount clutch drum is pressed on with a 8or 9 pin drive sproket for 3/8 163 chain i will post pictupes of the set up. the clutch needs a larger than 5 inch pully could use a6 or 8 inch but i havent seen one in the junk yard so i made one.


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## greasefittn (Aug 27, 2012)

*mill drive*

i booboed on the shaft size it is .498 the stihl clutch drum is .502 . heat up drum and press it on


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## bigjohn1895 (Aug 29, 2012)

thanks for the help looks like mine isnt goin g to get built till winter just got a wave of orders and ya gotta make hay wile the sun shines 

no pictures necessary i got the idea now just need to run with it 
could you let me in on what problems you had with the mill sliding up and down on the verticals were 
hopefully i can avoid the problems on mine 
i think the big difference is im not going as long as you 10 ft
also i think im going to make mine for a 3-4 foot wide cut as i dont need long slabs but short and wide i do alot


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## Jim Timber (Aug 29, 2012)

An OPEN differential was developed for tighter cornering, and less binding in the axle which causes bucking and scrubbing on pavement and some hardpack dirt.

Limited slip has some form of clutch mechanism to LIMIT the amount of differentiation between the two sides of the spider gears. Lockers are another class entirely (I also run a Detroit locker in my truck).

Most cars do not have limited slip differentials, as they have negative effects when traction is compromised.

Rather than welding the spider gears in an OPEN differential, all you need to do is brake the opposite wheel you don't want spinning. This could be used to replace your centrifugal clutch entirely. Drive the differential via the pinion gear (where the driveshaft would go), and then use the brakes on either side to control the saw. So you'd have a brake on the saw side, and a brake on the unused side - to run the saw, the saw side brake would be off and the unused side brake would be on. Then when you wanted to stop the saw, but still idle the engine, you'd brake the saw side and unbrake the unused side.

Rather than using a whole axle, you'd just want the third member (pumpkin) from a vehicle with an independent rear suspension - such as a honda crv or similar. Mount brake rotors right to the stub shafts and go to town. I'd use a drum brake on the unused side, for the simple fact that it's self energizing and would require less force to hold on. To brake the saw, it would only need a simple friction band on a sheeve to overcome the resistance of the spider gears - power would freely flow to the unused side.


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 29, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> An OPEN differential was developed for tighter cornering, and less binding in the axle which causes bucking and scrubbing on pavement and some hardpack dirt.
> 
> Limited slip has some form of clutch mechanism to LIMIT the amount of differentiation between the two sides of the spider gears. Lockers are another class entirely (I also run a Detroit locker in my truck).
> 
> ...


I got what you are saying, we used basically the same set up for a pto winch on our pulpwood truck.My main concern was turning the pinion gear straight up and attaching it to a vertical engine via pulleys.Isn't there a bearing right there and wouldn't it be out of the gear oil and not get lubrication?The rear diffs I have on hand are out of an 86 nissan maxima and an 84 ford fairmont.Neither are huge and I was planning on cutting them down, but just welding one axle, making the other side turn.Your brake idea is good, even though I've used it myself, I hadn't thought of it for this application.Thanks.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 29, 2012)

It would really depend on what the driven speed was. If you were using the pinion as your input, then you'd run the problem of a (for the sake of discussion we'll call it a 3:1 diff) 3:1 gear reduction from an already low revving engine to begin with. But, if you drove the diff from one of the stub shafts, then you'd have a 3:1 overdrive. Holding the diff with the axle stubs vertically, you'd need to fill it about half way to keep the pinion oiled. I'd then mount it such that the top stub was your idler/undriven shaft and then the lack of lube wouldn't matter. Splash would handle the top carrier bearing without issue.

I'd source out another diff to do this with. I wouldn't want the weight of a cast iron housing weighing on my saw carriage if I could avoid it.

You also might get lucky and find a used/surplus right angle gear drive. There's a place in Ohio called HGR, I bet they'd have what you're after. Otherwise, local surplus or fleabay would be options as well. Surplus Center.com would be another place to check. I've ordered some heavy stuff from them in the past and shipping was quite reasonable.


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 29, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> It would really depend on what the driven speed was. If you were using the pinion as your input, then you'd run the problem of a (for the sake of discussion we'll call it a 3:1 diff) 3:1 gear reduction from an already low revving engine to begin with. But, if you drove the diff from one of the stub shafts, then you'd have a 3:1 overdrive. Holding the diff with the axle stubs vertically, you'd need to fill it about half way to keep the pinion oiled. I'd then mount it such that the top stub was your idler/undriven shaft and then the lack of lube wouldn't matter. Splash would handle the top carrier bearing without issue.
> 
> I'd source out another diff to do this with. I wouldn't want the weight of a cast iron housing weighing on my saw carriage if I could avoid it.
> 
> You also might get lucky and find a used/surplus right angle gear drive. There's a place in Ohio called HGR, I bet they'd have what you're after. Otherwise, local surplus or fleabay would be options as well. Surplus Center.com would be another place to check. I've ordered some heavy stuff from them in the past and shipping was quite reasonable.



I looked at Surplus Center, they didn't have anything in this years catalog that looked like it would fill the bill.I'll check out HGR.There are plenty of you pull it junk yards nearby and I will try them, too.I like your ideas and thanks for the help.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 29, 2012)

Surplus Center's printed catalog only has their most plentiful items in it. The website has more of their small lot type stuff. I'd check the site, but that would still be new components.

An industrial right angle drive rated for 10hp is probably going to cost more than a new 10hp horizontal shaft engine would. As such, there might be something to be said for finding a lawnmower shop and seeing if they have a big snowthrower with an engine to trade you.


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 30, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> Surplus Center's printed catalog only has their most plentiful items in it. The website has more of their small lot type stuff. I'd check the site, but that would still be new components.
> 
> An industrial right angle drive rated for 10hp is probably going to cost more than a new 10hp horizontal shaft engine would. As such, there might be something to be said for finding a lawnmower shop and seeing if they have a big snowthrower with an engine to trade you.



I can get a 13hp horz. shaft for less than a gear box, I'm just trying to use what I have on hand.I'm afraid if I asked about a snowthrower at my local shop, I would get some strange looks.:msp_biggrin:


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## Jim Timber (Aug 30, 2012)

Yeah, well there's only one joint in town that sells gator up here. I think we're even. 

I'm really wishing you guys had won the civil war right now though. States rights should trump the feds.


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## scor440 (Aug 30, 2012)

I have the Harbor Freight 11hp Predator Honda clone engine.WORKS GREAT.Cant beat the warranty.Cost 299.00 349.00 for 13 hp.


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## greasefittn (Aug 31, 2012)

*engine size*

13 hp aint enough smoke for a 36 inch or larger csm. just remember when you run through a gearbox, you lose some power. my 18 hp twin b&s pulls hard at times you want the largest engine that you can find. also the lightest.for a portiable mill


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 31, 2012)

greasefittn said:


> 13 hp aint enough smoke for a 36 inch or larger csm. just remember when you run through a gearbox, you lose some power. my 18 hp twin b&s pulls hard at times you want the largest engine that you can find. also the lightest.for a portiable mill



I was planning on using a 17hp Kohler if I build a CSM, that's the engine I have.The reason I brought up the gearbox is I was also kicking around the idea of building a bandmill with the same engine and using the rear diff. on it.
Also, I don't want my mill to be portable, I'm building it on a 23' long schoolbus frame that I will weld either flatbar or maybe angleiron to for tracks and some overhead trolly wheels for the wheels.It is important to me that I build it as much as possible out of what I have laying around or can scrounge for free or cheap.That's my criteria, may take a little longer, but I'll get there.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 31, 2012)

Ok, you want some out there engineering ideas? 

Take the bus, use the engine to power a line shaft (some of those "little" allison tranny's have PTO ports on them), run the bandsaw off that shaft and also drive the head with it. Keep the bus functional and now you have a self propelled portable mill. I bet you could also rig some hydraulics to run off your line shaft and then you could have a grapple arm to load the logs.

In case you're not familiar with line shaft power transmission - it's how metal lathes deliver power to the carriage for power feeds. This allows your tool to traverse a lot of distance without a lot of extraneous hardware.


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## greasefittn (Sep 1, 2012)

*mill power*

the 13 hp harbor freight engine for a band mill is ok . for a csm its not. the bus frame is a good idea however, you dont want to run the bus engine just for the mill way to big!


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## Leroy in Kansas (Sep 15, 2012)

*Power transmission?*

I've been reading this thread with interest. Got to wondering if it would be possible to use something like a gear box from a tiller perhaps turned with the input shaft up, coupled with a lovejoy to the engine. ?? This may have more problems than it's worth. Just a thought or a what if.


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## greasefittn (Sep 15, 2012)

*transmission*

I dont think the ratio is correct with a tiller transmission . go to a u pull it junk yard and look around at all the zero turn mowers and other things that are there. I think that you will find something that will work remember, you want to keep it simple, easy to fix , when it breaks. and light.


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## Slabbinglayman (Sep 15, 2012)

*Milling logs and ripping set up on chainsaw.*

I have a 55 CC Husqvarna chainsaw w/20" bar. I use a Carlton ripping chain with teeth at 10 degrees. I have been milling 10" in diameter cedars and it does drag sometimes but I'm getting through ok. I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on how to optimize my midrange saw with either a different bar (besides the factory one), different kerf of chain, bigger sprocket, etc. Before anyone mentions it I do keep my chain sharp and serviceable while cutting. Thanks.


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## redheadwoodshed (Sep 20, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> Ok, you want some out there engineering ideas?
> 
> Take the bus, use the engine to power a line shaft (some of those "little" allison tranny's have PTO ports on them), run the bandsaw off that shaft and also drive the head with it. Keep the bus functional and now you have a self propelled portable mill. I bet you could also rig some hydraulics to run off your line shaft and then you could have a grapple arm to load the logs.
> 
> In case you're not familiar with line shaft power transmission - it's how metal lathes deliver power to the carriage for power feeds. This allows your tool to traverse a lot of distance without a lot of extraneous hardware.


I like the way you are thinking, but...
Alas,I only have the frame.
I have a line on a 16 H.P. 2 cylinder horz. B&S.I just purchase 2 20' sticks of 1"x1/2" flatbar for my tracks to weld to the frame and I have a beam trolly I'm going to use for wheels to run the carriage on.It's coming along.


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## redheadwoodshed (Sep 20, 2012)

greasefittn said:


> I dont think the ratio is correct with a tiller transmission . go to a u pull it junk yard and look around at all the zero turn mowers and other things that are there. I think that you will find something that will work remember, you want to keep it simple, easy to fix , when it breaks. and light.


Agreed, I'm thinking idler pulley for the transmission.


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## greasefittn (Sep 25, 2012)

*idler pully for clutch?*

Its better to use an electric clutch from a riding lawn mower. they are only about 5 bucks at the local u pull it around here. ps the belt needs to be tight so it doesnt slip. I have had problems with one belt with 18 hp.


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## redheadwoodshed (Sep 25, 2012)

greasefittn said:


> Its better to use an electric clutch from a riding lawn mower. they are only about 5 bucks at the local u pull it around here. ps the belt needs to be tight so it doesnt slip. I have had problems with one belt with 18 hp.



I may do that.My thinking with the idler clutch set up was this, I have a big spring and idler set up off a woods finish mower.The spring keeps tension on the idler until you disengage it, I thought that would help reduce slipping.
I've about set my mind on a bandsaw rig now, too, so I may just go ahead with the electric clutch.


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## greasefittn (Nov 25, 2012)

*electric clutch*

the clutch takes 3 to 6 amps to work, depending on the brand of clutch so the [email protected] engine should have a 13 amp alt in the flywheel so you will be fine with it. just remember to keep the belt tight.


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## mad murdock (Nov 28, 2012)

Slabbinglayman said:


> I have a 55 CC Husqvarna chainsaw w/20" bar. I use a Carlton ripping chain with teeth at 10 degrees. I have been milling 10" in diameter cedars and it does drag sometimes but I'm getting through ok. I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on how to optimize my midrange saw with either a different bar (besides the factory one), different kerf of chain, bigger sprocket, etc. Before anyone mentions it I do keep my chain sharp and serviceable while cutting. Thanks.



Buy the stihl ripping chain that Bailey's sells (picco), unless the Carlton chain you are using is already .325 low pro chain, if not, get the picco, you will not be disappointed. If you still are unhappy with cutting speed, you will need to upp your cc to the 70 class, a la 372xp or equivalent.


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## origionalrebel (Jan 17, 2013)

kpantherpro said:


> im sorry i have to disgree with you on the limited slip, limited slip was developed for tighter turning radius, and more control especailly where traction was needed but to be applied evenly so less loss of control would be experienced, it is considerd a safer drive system and most if not all of today's vehicle's use it, now posi- traction or welding the spiders up, or a locker, will force both wheels to spin at the same rate continually, and is desired in alot of applications where more power transfeered is ideally mainly as far as car related hot rods and four wheel drives.
> as far as bsm and csm they both have thier places, it really depends on what you are doing and what your trying to achieve...



what you're describing as a limited slip is actually a plan ole open drive. spider gears that turn freely. a limited slip has some device or mechanism to lock or restrict the motion of the spider gears. most vehicles do not come with limited slip unless you pay extra for it.


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## greasefittn (Jul 12, 2013)

*hemlock beech handicap ramp*

well the ramp lasted longer than my buddy did . His sister just told me that his ailments finally did him in. I went and looked at the ramp and it still is fine that ramp will last for 15-20 years. I told her that I would take it apart, or leave it in for the next people. and she said that she will see if the new owners want it or not.


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## jnl502 (Jul 14, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your friend. I remember this tread. It started good and went to well it just went. I hope your projects have gone well.


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## greasefittn (Jul 14, 2013)

*csm*

well a little update I just got a contact to cut some trees from longwood gardens for their shop products ... they seem not to be able to find anyone to cut these old trees I,ll have some pictures soon of this project.


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