# Resume, Applicant, New Employee Pet Peeves



## becomethesky (Mar 14, 2014)

Hello! 

I am about to begin applying for work on the ground eventually working towards ISA climber cert. 
To potentially avoid pitfalls may I ask...

What are some common mistakes regarding applications and what makes certain individuals stand out? 

What are the most annoying mistakes or attitudes new hires do/have?

What different challenges do women face that are different than men when applying if any?


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 14, 2014)

I don't want this to sound sexist, but it might anyways......
If you are a female then you might have a hard time keeping up with some big husky guy when it comes to dragging brush. On the other hand, if you are a lightweight, then that could be a real advantage when working in a tree. Especially on some prune jobs.

You asked about mistakes or attitude......
Listen when someone is giving instructions. Don't assume! If you don't understand ask for clarification. Show up to the interview wearing good work boots. Learn how to tie knots the proper way without having to think about it.
One more thing....... don't take any crap from the crew. Good luck.


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## Pelorus (Mar 14, 2014)

Learn your knots & tree ID. 
Get a copy of Jepson's "Tree Climber's Companion" and "Knots at Work" if you don't already have them.
Attitude IS everything. Showing up to work actually wanting and willing to learn stuff will be a mega plus in your favour.
Most of the ground workers I have run into (some I wanted to run over) are only playing this gig for the $$$. They could not care less about learning anything about anything tree-related. 
Good luck.


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## treecutterjr (Mar 14, 2014)

I'll third that. Listening and wanting to learn are key. I've also run into alot of people That know it all and want to do everything their way. If I say make two cuts make 2. ALSO the more you learn the more you earn. You don't have to worry about beating another guy at dragging brush and loading logs if you gain the knowledge and skills necessary to be a good climber/ bucket operator etc.
Brush draggers area dime a dozen. People with brains?? Not as common. 

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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 14, 2014)

To the OP... just realized it was your first post. Welcome to AS!


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 15, 2014)

My #1 pet peeve...............

Being in the tree and seeing someone on the ground talking on their phone. All I can say is they better be calling 911, cause somebody is going to need medical assistance!


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 15, 2014)

1. Don't lie about your experience. Ur a gurl, you will stand out

2. Look up, always keep a eye in the sky, that is where the biznass is. Walking into the LZ when someone is aloft and not yelling "under". 
Watch the brush as it goes thru the chipper from the side, behind the feed tray. Don't stand right there in front and get pissed when it rolls and smacks you in the face. 

3. Good louuurd, ur purty! Why in the hell do you wanna be a climber? 
Challenges for women.......its more like challenges of the boss keeping the guys focused. When in Socal in early 2000's, My boss hired a chick, she had great work ethic and a good attitude, she was very pretty and wore clothes that showed her figure very nicely. We had to tell her to step it down as it was going to cause a accident! Major distraction, so, he told her to dress like a man. Another thing that I have observed with girls in the field, they often feel that they need to prove something to the guys, ya don't, just hold your own and you will be fine. Trying to out do the guys often leads to mistakes. Show that you are willing to do what it takes and they will be teaching you all they know and will become surrogate brothers. Don't date the crew, nothing worse for a boss, than a screamin spat on a jobsite.


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## becomethesky (Mar 15, 2014)

Valuable advice.


I shall take it all to heart, read a lot and listen well on site. I am highly encouraged by this thread. Thank you all!



PS... Since you asked...


“Why in the hell do you wanna be a climber? “



I'd never even heard of tree climbing as a profession before last September when I met a climbing arborist for the first time on a solo backpacking trip to the redwood forest to climb a bit and zip line. After researching and asking around, taking a short course with Arbor Canada, I realized I'm kinda made for it and its absolutely what I am meant to do. I grew up helping out on the farm and doing outside work a lot. I work hard and I don't complain. I have worked about 11 years in the service industry in management almost exclusively. I call it a good day's work when I get to use my brain and my muscles all day. I am happy to hear it established that someone who really wants to learn is an asset. The intellectual component of this career is one of the things that drew me to it. Between learning about climbing techniques and gear, equipment maintenance and repair, rope uses and history, physics and efficiency of movement, tree identification, botany and taxonomy there is a lifetime of study ahead.


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## zapblam (Mar 15, 2014)

I work for a female arborist. You wanna talk about trees, she is the master of horticulture. Master chainsaw operator. Extremely valuable coworker both in the tree and on the ground. 

Sent from Galaxy Tab 8


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 15, 2014)

Would your boss be Fraxius?


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## zapblam (Mar 15, 2014)

One of three certified arborist in our crew. Dont allow anyone tell you a girl will not make a good arborist. Work with the ground crew while absorbing everything horticulture. Practice knots. Learn a little latin for good measure. Just like anyone else trying to put themselves a step above. Thats what I am doing myself. 

Sent from Galaxy Tab 8


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## pro94lt (Mar 15, 2014)

Flip flops = no job from me


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## ATH (Mar 15, 2014)

First, you asked:


becomethesky said:


> ... what makes certain individuals stand out?....


In your next post, you said:


becomethesky said:


> ....I'd never even heard of tree climbing as a profession before last September when I met a climbing arborist for the first time.....After researching and asking around, taking a short course with Arbor Canada, I realized I'm kinda made for it and its absolutely what I am meant to do........I call it a good day's work when I get to use my brain and my muscles all day.......The intellectual component of this career is one of the things that drew me to it. Between learning about climbing techniques and gear, equipment maintenance and repair, rope uses and history, physics and efficiency of movement, tree identification, botany and taxonomy there is a lifetime of study ahead.



Communicate THAT when you apply, and you *will* stand out. Most people who show up "just looking" for a job assume tree work is simple dumbman's labor. They think this is a job where they can show up drunk or stoned, not put too much effort into it and get a decent pay. Probably people who didn't make it in the factory (because they pee test for drugs). They have run a saw their whole life so they _clearly_ know what they are doing  If I thought I could find enough hours to be fair to the applicant, I'd always give somebody who communicates passion an opportunity.

Others above have said: don't think you have to prove yourself because you are a woman. I agree. If you are with a crew where you do need to...you may never be able to even if you out work all of them - they have already made up their mind and you waste a lot of physical and emotional energy fighting that. If you excel and are a great climber, spend time learning, etc. and move up they will say you were treated differently, you had it easy, etc. When you are looking for a place to work, interview them as much as they are interviewing you. There are enough quality employers who will stand behind any good worker. To me, I am less interested anybody who thinks they need to "prove" themselves. That is when people start to take unnecessary chances and do stupid things...plus they can be annoying!

It is not specific to tree work...but I read a great book called 48 Days to the Work You Love. The 1st half is about finding your passion...what you are "supposed" to be doing. The second half has very practical career search advise which is why I mention it here. I'd recommend that (and you can certainly get through it in less than 48 days!)


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## Knobby57 (Mar 15, 2014)

Neck tattoos are high on my list of you must be worthless, I know it is not always true, and i should not think that way.I'm sure there are lots of clean cut hard workers out there that also have a brain and know how to use it wi a tattoo that said madman on there neck . It just never instilled that warm feeling that I may have to trust this guy with my life . 75 pieces of metal hanging out of your face is a close second.


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## imagineero (Mar 16, 2014)

Are you single? I might as well ask, everyone you ever work with is gonna.

You've not got any real experience, so there's little point in making up a resume. It's only going to be full of your lack of experience and end up sounding like a motivational speech full of ridiculous statements like "I'm a team player and love to challenge myself". We run only a small crew of 4-6 guys but went through over 150 staff last year, I kid you not. Each time I advertised I generally got a couple hundred applicants. Empty resumes get binned immediately. The best you can hope for is a start. If you're any good, that's all you need. No resume will get you hired, but good work will keep you in a job, learning and earning. Call around, talk to the boss and not the receptionist. Hit a home run each time with a statement like "This is the only job for me. Give me a start tomorrow and let me show you what I'm made of. If you don't like me at the end of the day I won't bother you again". Half a dozen phone calls like that will get you a start, 100 resumes posted out will not. 

If you do get the job then go suck eggs for a month, grounding is miserable. You probably won't want to do the job after a month of grounding. Either way, if you're single I'd love to ask you out.


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## B Harrison (Mar 16, 2014)

becomethesky said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am about to begin applying for work on the ground eventually working towards ISA climber cert.
> To potentially avoid pitfalls may I ask...
> ...


look like your ready to work, i once interviewed a guy that packed lunch, he wanted to start work NOW. we hired him.


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## Brian B. (Mar 16, 2014)

I hope your looks don't keep eyes off the work. Not trying to be cute either- be aware of that, I have seen it in my line of work in the electrical industry... It can be an issue. Be aware and mindful of it.


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## capetrees (Mar 16, 2014)

Show upo to the interview looking to be a member of the crew, not a woman looking for a job. On the job, don't come in all dolled up. Look like a member of the crew. Don't be afraid to realize or admit you probably won't be able to lift or out labor the guys, (some you may) but make it apoint to the interviewer you look for ways to fit in. You'll be the one to do the jobs the others don't llike to do or can't do and you'll make every effort to do what they do too. You'll earn your stripes quickly. And ignore the morons that try to hit on you all day (like some of the posts in here). Move on and do your job and run circles around them.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Mar 16, 2014)

I think one of the bigger pitfalls a person in your position might stumble into would be taking a job at a company who said they were good and might even look it but after a couple days you realize this was not the case. So don't be afraid to ask the same questions you are being asked, don't assume its a good place to work just because they have nice trucks and a secretary.

Also don't go trying to impress people with your knowledge by running yer mouth when its time to heave ho but you probably already know that.

And of course you might want to button up yer shirt. You'll fill up with wood chips and sawdust and if you tuck your shirt in then yer underpants fill up just the same.


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 17, 2014)

Dang it Shaun, you went and scared her off!


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## Marshy (Mar 17, 2014)

B Harrison said:


> look like your ready to work, i once interviewed a guy that packed lunch, he wanted to start work NOW. we hired him.


Thats good advice in my opinion, not only that but be ready to work. 

Also, have a good "elevator speach" ready. Likely, most owners wont do sit down interviews and if they do it will be short. I dont see why a resume would hurt but focus on highlighting the skills you do have that will help you in the position you are applying for and point them out and speak to them. If its a smaller company and you get face time with the owner let him know your ready to work that day and be dressed and ready to do so. If he likes your interview and first impression he might ask you to start right in, insist on it if you like. Committment to work goes a long ways and therefore you have to be willing to prove it, not just say it. All that being said, it might make good sense to set up your interview for early morning or at lunch time that way you can get half a day in or so.


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## Knobby57 (Mar 17, 2014)

imagineero said:


> Are you single? I might as well ask, everyone you ever work with is gonna.
> 
> You've not got any real experience, so there's little point in making up a resume. It's only going to be full of your lack of experience and end up sounding like a motivational speech full of ridiculous statements like "I'm a team player and love to challenge myself". We run only a small crew of 4-6 guys but went through over 150 staff last year, I kid you not. Each time I advertised I generally got a couple hundred applicants. Empty resumes get binned immediately. The best you can hope for is a start. If you're any good, that's all you need. No resume will get you hired, but good work will keep you in a job, learning and earning. Call around, talk to the boss and not the receptionist. Hit a home run each time with a statement like "This is the only job for me. Give me a start tomorrow and let me show you what I'm made of. If you don't like me at the end of the day I won't bother you again". Half a dozen phone calls like that will get you a start, 100 resumes posted out will not.
> 
> If you do get the job then go suck eggs for a month, grounding is miserable. You probably won't want to do the job after a month of grounding. Either way, if you're single I'd love to ask you out.




Oddly enough my resumes looks almost identical to the list of things I never want to do again ... 


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## capetrees (Mar 17, 2014)

Resumes can't hurt but focus on those jobs or your education that will be put to use with the job. You can list that you operate a loader or Bobcat but show how it would relate to the tree industry. And don't overlook other small jobs you've had that don't relate to the industry like working in a book store or driving a cab. At least it shows you have a desire to work. Big gaps between jobs isn't good. What were you doing if not working? Red flag.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 17, 2014)

VA-Sawyer said:


> Dang it Shaun, you went and scared her off!



Yeah, but she will probably need thick skin,, I am sure Shaun did not mean to be mean,,That s my job!,,
She should come back and hang and give it right back,,
Jeff


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## Pelorus (Mar 17, 2014)

I occasionally get unsolicited resumes. (nb. they are always unsolicited, unwanted, and nothing marks their passing)
A resume isn't something an individual should screw up with easily avoided spelling mistakes, so I find it especially disconcerting to so frequently spot them. You gotta pour your heart and soul into a resume. Carefully structure every word and sentence in it. So don't muck it up.


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm just giving Shaun a hard time.


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## becomethesky (Mar 17, 2014)

Pelorus said:


> I occasionally get unsolicited resumes. (nb. they are always unsolicited, unwanted, and nothing marks their passing)
> A resume isn't something an individual should screw up with easily avoided spelling mistakes, so I find it especially disconcerting to so frequently spot them. You gotta pour your heart and soul into a resume. Carefully structure every word and sentence in it. So don't muck it up.



A shared sentiment indeed. Comically, resumes with recurrent spelling mistakes all too often contain the phrase, "excellent written and oral communication skills". 



Marshy said:


> I dont see why a resume would hurt but focus on highlighting the skills you do have that will help you in the position you are applying for and point them out and speak to them. If its a smaller company and you get face time with the owner let him know your ready to work that day and be dressed and ready to do so. If he likes your interview and first impression he might ask you to start right in, insist on it if you like. Committment to work goes a long ways and therefore you have to be willing to prove it, not just say it. All that being said, it might make good sense to set up your interview for early morning or at lunch time that way you can get half a day in or so.




Great stuff.

Accurate to say that keeping answers clear, efficient and sharp is a solid plan?


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## Marshy (Mar 18, 2014)

becomethesky said:


> ...
> Great stuff.
> Accurate to say that keeping answers clear, efficient and sharp is a solid plan?


 
Yes, use your judgement and provide only enough detail to keep them interested but not too much to flood them with rambling talk. Read their body language and shorten the details if they are becoming bored or act like you are taking up too much of their time. 

Often I find in my profession, everyone being interviewed for the position has similar education and qualifications that I have and so what really makes you stand out and rise to the top is your character and personal aspirations outside of work and how they relate to the position. Sharing a personal experience or desire like you told us about climbing (rock?) is a home run. Share a short climbing experience with them in which you were challenged and how you resolved it and how you think you would benefit from that experience on the job and with your background. That will go a lot farther then talking about your last job a "X".


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## Zale (Mar 20, 2014)

Where are you currently looking? I would suggest applying with the larger national companies. There will be more opportunities for you rather than a family run operation. Tree work is hard and it is going to take time for you to get in "work" shape. Eat right, don't smoke and get plenty of sleep. If you are hired you will be watched more closely, stared at and probably told you don't belong. Welcome to the tree world.

My wife was in production for 13 years and went through it all. In the end she was the Production Manager for her office running 4 crews, competed in 5 ITCCs and could out climb and out work most men. I firmly believe a woman can do this work, don't let people tell you you can't. If you are willing to relocate, you will have a wider range of options. Good luck.

P.S. I am currently looking for an assistant arborist.


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## Single_Shooter (Mar 28, 2014)

Make yourself valuable is the best advice I can give you. Learn something new every chance you get. Be a sponge and soak up all the info you can. I wish I had just one guy who would actually just TRY to learn something to be a better worker!!! Nope....just there for a paycheck. That's why two have come and gone in the past week....and the season really isn't in full swing here yet with the long days and the miserable heat.

I have tried and tried to find a female climber since last year with no luck. Can't seem to find a woman who wants to hang out in the top of trees all day. My guy is 6'-3" and 200 pounds so there are a lot of those little limbs he just can't walk out on to do a righteous trim on some smaller trees.

If you learn everything you can - be a sponge for knowledge - you can succeed in this business. Just invest in yourself and try to learn something new every day....and practice it often.


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## GroundSquirrel (Apr 22, 2014)

Hello all-- I'm GroundSquirrel, from Texas, and I'm another lady in the business. I'm a ground 'guy' and I've been doing this for a couple of years. Doesn't make me any kind of an expert by any means, but I did want to share my 2 cents for other women who are giving thought to this line of work.

First-- it's already been said, but I want to acknowledge that as a woman, it's NOT necessary to 'prove' yourself to anyone as long as you have a good work ethic. You don't need to hump huge mounds of brush to make a point. If you are on a good crew, like mine (praise God!)-- what you do will be appreciated so long as you just do your job to the very best of your ability, and make the effort to expand your ability. By that, you ask questions. You ask to learn things. You set your sights a little higher every day and make an honest effort to reach a little higher. You keep your head on a swivel, watch what's happening, keep looking UP, literally, because that's where the action is. Dress for hard, hot and dirty work; there's plenty of time to doll up later. Keep your eyes and your ears open and ALWAYS be mindful of your climber(s). NEVER show up to a job drunk or high, and NEVER 'indulge' on the job-- that's why we have this time called 'after work'. Tree work is dangerous; tree work while messed up is a death wish.

I am a petite woman, and there's no disguising that fact. My crew members and my boss know that. They're also smart enough to know that a 'half ton truck' can't carry as much as a 'one ton', but also wise enough to realize that both 'trucks' are capable of doing useful work so long as they are running right, if you know what I mean. Heck, I'm not even really a 'truck'-- a 'bicycle' is more like it!  But even a bicycle can do things and go places where a truck just won't go. Thus, another poster's point about the 200 pounder on a small limb, versus the smaller and lighter climber. Heck, I'm so light (just over 100 pounds... yes, I said I was little!) that I can't always mash down a stack of brush on the trailer... but I can slip into those tight little places where piles of brush always seem to gather and get the things that are in places too small for our burly men to fit. But despite my size, I can rope down trees and big cuts like the best of them. I do not climb because I have horrible knees (due for replacement in the too-near future). But I can work a chainsaw, stack brush and firewood, haul a wheelbarrow, feed a chipper, tie knots and basically do all the 'boring' little ground things that are so essential. 

Why do I say this? Because, everyone admires the climber. That guy, to many observers, is the 'coolest' person on the crew. But in the end, when you pack up the tools and prepare to leave and get that check from the client-- the ground person is the one who ultimately does the clean up work. People might not immediately notice the 'missed' hanger or 'deader' up in the canopy... but they WILL notice the huge mess in their yard. And, they will NOT be pleased! In a sense, then, the ground person is the one who really puts the bows and ribbons on the job. It doesn't matter how professionally the tree is cut-- if the grounds look like C.R.A.P. (can I say that here?) when you leave, you won't get another call from that client-- and word will spread. The ground person is the one who sees that the climber has what is needed to do the job, and gets it when asked. The ground person is the one who sees to it that brush piles are safe and won't blow off a trailer if it's being hauled away. 

So starting off as a ground person is nothing to be ashamed of, not at all. For most, it's a fine place to begin to learn the trade... and for 'older' and more 'beat up' folks like me, it's a noble and necessary function. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I'm proud to be a 'GroundSquirrel'. And NEVER let any buck tell you that women have no business in this business! My boss has hired several women to help out. Some couldn't cut it (ha, get it? ). But a few actually climbed the ropes (ha, I'm on a roll today!) and went on to form their own companies. You definitely need a tough skin to put up with the junk that SOME guys will dish out. My boss actually FIRED another ground guy over sexist remarks, from a guy who actually could not keep up with ME. But do not count on that. Be strong, keep your head up, do your job, show a willingness to work and learn and improve, be part of the team by dressing like one of them and pitching in, learn the basics and learn about SAFETY... and be prepared for hard work. But be prepared for a real satisfying feeling of an honest day's labor in the fresh air.

Sorry for sprawling out like the canopy of an ancient oak... but this was a very pertinent thread to me. Thanks for reading!

_*~GroundSquirrel*_


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## Zale (Apr 23, 2014)

Well said.


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 23, 2014)

Welcome to the site,
Jeff


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## KenJax Tree (Apr 23, 2014)

One of our best crane ops is a woman. She can put the sling right in my hands....no reaching for it


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## derwoodii (Apr 24, 2014)

welcome to AS you'll get a job no worries the trade tree skills & schooling up will come easy if you enjoy your work & consider the larger company's as they have better avenues for keen newbies 

for your resume,,, if you got one then great if not go get your truck licence this helps so much when hiring staff for crews


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## shelby78 (May 5, 2014)

There seems to be a lot of guys saying you'll have no problem but I see it different. I run a service and here's my opinion on the hard truth. We run a very small crew but have all the toys also. Other than our wifes not wanting us to hire a girl we just wouldn't as a general rule anyway. Think of it this way... The guys that have put in there time hire people to make there job easier. Yes its hard to find smart people but the sad truth is after a guy climbs a big tree or even a technical cut and swing tree he doesn't want to drag brush or throw wood on the dump truck. We have a crane on our dump truck but the low man has to rig it too and that entails rolling and strapping wood.

Strength is a huge part of our own system and helps us to make money. We have had very smart people but without the strength they didn't offset enuff to make us keep them. This is only my personal views but be ready to encounter this when applying. We also do all the in air stuff ourselves so only hire groundies.


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## BC WetCoast (May 7, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> There seems to be a lot of guys saying you'll have no problem but I see it different. I run a service and here's my opinion on the hard truth. We run a very small crew but have all the toys also. Other than our wifes not wanting us to hire a girl we just wouldn't as a general rule anyway. Think of it this way... The guys that have put in there time hire people to make there job easier. Yes its hard to find smart people but the sad truth is after a guy climbs a big tree or even a technical cut and swing tree he doesn't want to drag brush or throw wood on the dump truck. We have a crane on our dump truck but the low man has to rig it too and that entails rolling and strapping wood.
> 
> Strength is a huge part of our own system and helps us to make money. We have had very smart people but without the strength they didn't offset enuff to make us keep them. This is only my personal views but be ready to encounter this when applying. We also do all the in air stuff ourselves so only hire groundies.



Arboriculture is a very large field with many different jobs and duties. Humping heavy wood during a removal is only one facet. One of our competitors has had a 3 year street tree pruning contract, nothing cut has been too big for anyone to move and the cutting requires knowledge and skill rather than brute strength. 

Plant health care and stump grinding are other facets of the biz that don't require brute strength. 

Too bad your wife can't trust you to hire a woman. Good thing you don't work in an office.


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## shelby78 (May 7, 2014)

BC WetCoast said:


> Arboriculture is a very large field with many different jobs and duties. Humping heavy wood during a removal is only one facet. One of our competitors has had a 3 year street tree pruning contract, nothing cut has been too big for anyone to move and the cutting requires knowledge and skill rather than brute strength.
> 
> Plant health care and stump grinding are other facets of the biz that don't require brute strength.
> 
> Too bad your wife can't trust you to hire a woman. Good thing you don't work in an office.




Yes it CAN be a very large field to work in but NOT in our area! We have probly 10 different tree services and they are all men. There is a reason they are all men. 85 percent of our work is removal. Holding heavy limbs while swinging over houses, spurring with the 660 and a 32 inch bar cutting wood down... You name it, its all strength in OUR area.

Stumping isn't strength? Yesterday we almost filled our dumptruck forking and shoveling willow stump grindings on.

My wife (and every other guys wife) is smart enuff to know you don't hire a girl to do OUR job. If I did she would know something is up because they (lets say 95 percent as there are strong tough women but very few) can't handle OUR routine. If I worked in a office women would be common place and not a issue.


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## Zale (May 7, 2014)

I've been waiting for a knuckle dragger to post. If I have heavy limbs over a house, I use a rope.


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## shelby78 (May 8, 2014)

Zale said:


> I've been waiting for a knuckle dragger to post. If I have heavy limbs over a house, I use a rope.



While your playing with your rope i'll be on the next job.... Where exactly are you roping to? Are you going to rope them onto the roof when you could easily cut and swing? Are you going to have a guy running the rope and a guy on the roof when they could be chipping? Who's gonna drag that big limb to the chipper and feed it thru when it hits the ground?

Some of you guys must work at a snails pace from the sound of things.


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## no tree to big (May 8, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> While your playing with your rope i'll be on the next job.... Where exactly are you roping to? Are you going to rope them onto the roof when you could easily cut and swing? Are you going to have a guy running the rope and a guy on the roof when they could be chipping? Who's gonna drag that big limb to the chipper and feed it thru when it hits the ground?
> 
> Some of you guys must work at a snails pace from the sound of things.


Sorry maybe Im missing something but we don't trim trees to the ground.... Your telling me u can make 5 or more cuts on the end plus grab logs of a limb your standing on faster then tying a knot and make one cut? Or do you only do pines?

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## chief116 (May 8, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> While your playing with your rope i'll be on the next job.... Where exactly are you roping to? Are you going to rope them onto the roof when you could easily cut and swing? Are you going to have a guy running the rope and a guy on the roof when they could be chipping? Who's gonna drag that big limb to the chipper and feed it thru when it hits the ground?
> 
> Some of you guys must work at a snails pace from the sound of things.



Not every person is a perfect fit for every company. But there is a reason for tools to have been invented. Chipper winches, wheelbarrows, log dollies, mechanical advantage set-ups, mechanical ascenders, these were created to make the hard work easier. Bruisers are a dime a dozen, hard workers with common sense aren't. I actually don't have any problem with you not wanting a woman at your company because its YOUR company, but at the end of the day, it seems quite absurd to write off half the population immediately.


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## Zale (May 8, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> While your playing with your rope i'll be on the next job.... Where exactly are you roping to? Are you going to rope them onto the roof when you could easily cut and swing? Are you going to have a guy running the rope and a guy on the roof when they could be chipping? Who's gonna drag that big limb to the chipper and feed it thru when it hits the ground?
> 
> Some of you guys must work at a snails pace from the sound of things.



You are too funny. You go get'em King Kong. Also, if you only carry a 660 on your belt with a 32" bar, sounds like you're not running with the big boys yet. I prefer a 3120 for my climbing saw.


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## jefflovstrom (May 9, 2014)

Male or female, an asset is an asset. 
Jeff


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## KenJax Tree (May 9, 2014)

One of our best groundies is a woman.....shes also one of the best crane ops. Shes not bad looking and is married with 2 kids and shes also a breast cancer survivor.....winner in my book.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CanopyGorilla (May 11, 2014)

GroundSquirrel said:


> Hello all-- I'm GroundSquirrel, from Texas, and I'm another lady in the business. I'm a ground 'guy' and I've been doing this for a couple of years. Doesn't make me any kind of an expert by any means, but I did want to share my 2 cents for other women who are giving thought to this line of work.
> 
> First-- it's already been said, but I want to acknowledge that as a woman, it's NOT necessary to 'prove' yourself to anyone as long as you have a good work ethic. You don't need to hump huge mounds of brush to make a point. If you are on a good crew, like mine (praise God!)-- what you do will be appreciated so long as you just do your job to the very best of your ability, and make the effort to expand your ability. By that, you ask questions. You ask to learn things. You set your sights a little higher every day and make an honest effort to reach a little higher. You keep your head on a swivel, watch what's happening, keep looking UP, literally, because that's where the action is. Dress for hard, hot and dirty work; there's plenty of time to doll up later. Keep your eyes and your ears open and ALWAYS be mindful of your climber(s). NEVER show up to a job drunk or high, and NEVER 'indulge' on the job-- that's why we have this time called 'after work'. Tree work is dangerous; tree work while messed up is a death wish.
> 
> ...


An attitude like this will get you a job. Fine words!


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## CanopyGorilla (May 11, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> While your playing with your rope i'll be on the next job.... Where exactly are you roping to? Are you going to rope them onto the roof when you could easily cut and swing? Are you going to have a guy running the rope and a guy on the roof when they could be chipping? Who's gonna drag that big limb to the chipper and feed it thru when it hits the ground?
> 
> Some of you guys must work at a snails pace from the sound of things.


An attitude like this will also get you a job, mostly just carrying furniture though.


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## Brendon Phillips (May 11, 2014)

Not sure you'd want to work for someone like Shelby. The fact that you're on here asking questions shows a lot. I'm constantly going through meatheads cause their brains are to small. If you were in my area Id hire you in a second. You wouldn't catch any flack from my guys either. And I'm not hitting on you, I'm married with kids. I don't care how strong someone is. That's what dollies, winches, loaders and port a wraps are for. I care about attitude and work ethic. Meatheads are everywhere, and they're the ones that get people hurt, break equipment and start personnel problems. I'm sure Shelby will be done climbing in a few years from a blown out shoulder and knees from trying to grab branches and swing them over. I'd like to see his repair bills on roofs and fences too. I'd much rather have a 100 lb woman that thinks and loves her job. Hell, I'd put her in charge of the gorillas in a couple weeks and so I could focus on climbing and making sure everyone goes home. Brains are that important.


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## Hoowasat (May 11, 2014)

Brendon Phillips said:


> Brains are that important.


Glad to hear that, and I like your attitude. Tree work is one of the few professions where working smarter versus working harder really pays off. I may be in contact if I ever need to find a new job.


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## shelby78 (May 12, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> An attitude like this will also get you a job, mostly just carrying furniture though.




Says the guy with a avatar pic pushing a big block off. My 105 lb wife would never even be able to rock it back and forth a bit let alone push that block off. What happens when the dead weight sits on your bar when you fininsh that cut? Is a 100 lb girl or guy gonna pull a 660 out with one hand as they pushs the block with another? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black..


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## shelby78 (May 12, 2014)

Brendon Phillips said:


> Not sure you'd want to work for someone like Shelby. The fact that you're on here asking questions shows a lot. I'm constantly going through meatheads cause their brains are to small. If you were in my area Id hire you in a second. You wouldn't catch any flack from my guys either. And I'm not hitting on you, I'm married with kids. I don't care how strong someone is. That's what dollies, winches, loaders and port a wraps are for. I care about attitude and work ethic. Meatheads are everywhere, and they're the ones that get people hurt, break equipment and start personnel problems. I'm sure Shelby will be done climbing in a few years from a blown out shoulder and knees from trying to grab branches and swing them over. I'd like to see his repair bills on roofs and fences too. I'd much rather have a 100 lb woman that thinks and loves her job. Hell, I'd put her in charge of the gorillas in a couple weeks and so I could focus on climbing and making sure everyone goes home. Brains are that important.




No one would have to worry about working for me as I have a great crew. That's the beauty of being the boss, I can hire who I want. I've been doing tree work professionally since 1999 and bought the business from my boss after years of working for him. We have the best name in the business and are the only tree service that is busy all the time. In the 15 years I have done it we have damaged one metal garden shed and it was from a bounce. All it did was make a small dent.

Just because I'm strong and like to take care of myself doesn't mean I'm stupid. How many of your bosses bought you guys new trucks because you were such a great worker? I don't mean a company truck, I mean a brand new keep for yourself truck. I got a new truck every 3 years and my last one before I bought the company was my 2013 ram 2500 diesel. $60000 truck because I bust my ass everyday and he rewarded me for it. I do the same with my guys. They work hard and they deserve good pay and benefits.

Riddle me this.... If women are such great tree cutters why don't they have the majority of tree jobs?

I would love to see some of the crews working that claim strength doesn't matter.

I could see a girl being a climber IF you never did big tree's. If you want to learn and start at the bottom to get in you need to be able to do the hard work. Kinda a catch 22 and that's the biggest point I was making.


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## Zale (May 12, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> Says the guy with a avatar pic pushing a big block off. My 105 lb wife would never even be able to rock it back and forth a bit let alone push that block off. What happens when the dead weight sits on your bar when you fininsh that cut? Is a 100 lb girl or guy gonna pull a 660 out with one hand as they pushs the block with another? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black..




A small wedge takes care of that problem but I forget you don't like using tools that slow down the job.


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## Zale (May 12, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> No one would have to worry about working for me as I have a great crew. That's the beauty of being the boss, I can hire who I want. I've been doing tree work professionally since 1999 and bought the business from my boss after years of working for him. We have the best name in the business and are the only tree service that is busy all the time. In the 15 years I have done it we have damaged one metal garden shed and it was from a bounce. All it did was make a small dent.
> 
> Just because I'm strong and like to take care of myself doesn't mean I'm stupid. How many of your bosses bought you guys new trucks because you were such a great worker? I don't mean a company truck, I mean a brand new keep for yourself truck. I got a new truck every 3 years and my last one before I bought the company was my 2013 ram 2500 diesel. $60000 truck because I bust my ass everyday and he rewarded me for it. I do the same with my guys. They work hard and they deserve good pay and benefits.
> 
> ...




A new truck every 3 years? You are awesome.


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## Brendon Phillips (May 12, 2014)

Well then keep doin whatcher doin. Obviously you're the best. Except maybe don't be such an a$$ and you won't catch any flak.


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## shelby78 (May 12, 2014)

Zale said:


> A small wedge takes care of that problem but I forget you don't like using tools that slow down the job.



Yes, a small wedge can solve the bar pinch problem but a strong cutter pulls the wood with one hand cutting with the other and eliminating the wedge.. So we determined a lightweight can get a saw out with a wedge but still have to push that big block off. I don't see a rope in your pic. Would it of been faster if you had a 100 lb lightweight in the bucket and had to tie a rope to have a groundie pull it for them? Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it?


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## shelby78 (May 12, 2014)

Brendon Phillips said:


> Well then keep doin whatcher doin. Obviously you're the best. Except maybe don't be such an a$$ and you won't catch any flak.





I never said I was the best and I don't claim to be. I said we have the best name. There is a big difference.


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## chief116 (May 12, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> Yes, a small wedge can solve the bar pinch problem but a strong cutter pulls the wood with one hand cutting with the other and eliminating the wedge.. So we determined a lightweight can get a saw out with a wedge but still have to push that big block off. I don't see a rope in your pic. Would it of been faster if you had a 100 lb lightweight in the bucket and had to tie a rope to have a groundie pull it for them? Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it?



Advocating unsafe saw handling isn't going to win you many friends. Even though that's how I'd do it.

The 101 forum is for helping new people. Not telling them find a new career cuz they won't be hired due to their sex and physical stature. Commercial tree care is for chest thumping and biggest **** contests.

Theres tons of oppurtunities out there for a woman or a midget. From running log trucks and cranes to PHC to stump grinding to climbing. Why do you choose to focus on one of maybe 5 activities that being a 6 foot tall 200 pounder is an advantage?


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## Brendon Phillips (May 12, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> I never said I was the best and I don't claim to be. I said we have the best name. There is a big difference.



Chill out man. Were here to help each other and bounce ideas off each other. It's not a contest. I'm a big dude too. 6'2" 220 lbs. built like a brick shithouse. I can easily push those logs off with one hand. Every once in a while when I don't really have much of a choice, I will. But it is kinda dumb. That's how you get cut, dragged down by the saw catching in the wood, and caught up in ropes. Not to mention how hard it is on your body. I do my best to keep myself without permanent injury, and I already have back problems from stuff like that. I prefer to cut logs a lot bigger with a big open face cut and have my ground guys pull it with a rope I it's not leaning the right way. Takes 30 sec to pull a rope back up and reset. And I always have a rope with a descender or a double rope with a Blake's hitch ready to get me down if I get hurt. You gonna give me crap for that too? It's a dangerous game we play, and I like to keep the odds in my favor. If you don't act like a meathead you won't get treated like one. Id like to think you're a good guy since you have a dedicated crew, but so far you're kind of a douche.


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## Zale (May 12, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> Yes, a small wedge can solve the bar pinch problem but a strong cutter pulls the wood with one hand cutting with the other and eliminating the wedge.. So we determined a lightweight can get a saw out with a wedge but still have to push that big block off. I don't see a rope in your pic. Would it of been faster if you had a 100 lb lightweight in the bucket and had to tie a rope to have a groundie pull it for them? Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it?



I try to keep two hands on the saw. Won't say I haven't done it your way before but as time goes on, I prefer the safer method. You keep going Godzilla, stay safe.


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## Brendon Phillips (May 12, 2014)

chief116 said:


> Advocating unsafe saw handling isn't going to win you many friends. Even though that's how I'd do it.
> 
> The 101 forum is for helping new people. Not telling them find a new career cuz they won't be hired due to their sex and physical stature. Commercial tree care is for chest thumping and biggest **** contests.
> 
> Theres tons of oppurtunities out there for a woman or a midget. From running log trucks and cranes to PHC to stump grinding to climbing. Why do you choose to focus on one of maybe 5 activities that being a 6 foot tall 200 pounder is an advantage?




There's a woman that grinds stumps around here that comes out in short cutoff jeans, tank top and boots. I hear she's pretty good lookin too. Never used her, but apparently she's pretty good with that machine and the guys enjoy the show.


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## Brendon Phillips (May 12, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> Says the guy with a avatar pic pushing a big block off. My 105 lb wife would never even be able to rock it back and forth a bit let alone push that block off. What happens when the dead weight sits on your bar when you fininsh that cut? Is a 100 lb girl or guy gonna pull a 660 out with one hand as they pushs the block with another? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black..



If you look a little closer, it looks like he made the cuts then moved to the top of the log and gave it a push. Is that how it went Gorilla? If so, that's much safer than cutting with one hand and pushing with another.


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## shelby78 (May 12, 2014)

chief116 said:


> Advocating unsafe saw handling isn't going to win you many friends. Even though that's how I'd do it.
> 
> The 101 forum is for helping new people. Not telling them find a new career cuz they won't be hired due to their sex and physical stature. Commercial tree care is for chest thumping and biggest **** contests.
> 
> Theres tons of oppurtunities out there for a woman or a midget. From running log trucks and cranes to PHC to stump grinding to climbing. Why do you choose to focus on one of maybe 5 activities that being a 6 foot tall 200 pounder is an advantage?



You and I both know "unsafe" is a lot of the time the only way it can be done. Who actually keeps both hands on a 200t all the time, or even once  I'm not here to make friends. I was only trying to provide a realistic image of what a woman can and will encounter in the tree world.

We run a 3 man crew and that's all we need. There's no climber only guy, there's no stumper only guy. Everyone does everything with the exception of air work or crane work. I usually do most of the hardest work as I don't ask anymore from my guys that I put out myself. If the brush isn't done when I get down I start chipping, then load wood, then stump.

This is basically how most services run around here. Maybe you guys have stumper only guys and contract climbers but it doesn't work like that around here.


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## shelby78 (May 12, 2014)

Brendon Phillips said:


> Chill out man. Were here to help each other and bounce ideas off each other. It's not a contest. I'm a big dude too. 6'2" 220 lbs. built like a brick shithouse. I can easily push those logs off with one hand. Every once in a while when I don't really have much of a choice, I will. But it is kinda dumb. That's how you get cut, dragged down by the saw catching in the wood, and caught up in ropes. Not to mention how hard it is on your body. I do my best to keep myself without permanent injury, and I already have back problems from stuff like that. I prefer to cut logs a lot bigger with a big open face cut and have my ground guys pull it with a rope I it's not leaning the right way. Takes 30 sec to pull a rope back up and reset. And I always have a rope with a descender or a double rope with a Blake's hitch ready to get me down if I get hurt. You gonna give me crap for that too? It's a dangerous game we play, and I like to keep the odds in my favor. If you don't act like a meathead you won't get treated like one. Id like to think you're a good guy since you have a dedicated crew, but so far you're kind of a douche.




You want me to chill out? You have basically called me a ass, meathead, and douche. Have I called you any names?

It's funny how a lot of the guys doing this are big strong guys as that was my main point!


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## KenJax Tree (May 12, 2014)

This thread reeks of arrogance and BS


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hoowasat (May 12, 2014)

The OP hasn't said a peep since mid-March. I bet she's wondering how this can of worms got opened and smeared all over God's creation. That, or she simply gave up on this site after seeing that nothing changes, and boys continue to be boys. Me? I finally decided what I want to be when I get older ... younger!


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## jefflovstrom (May 12, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> I'm not here to make friends. I was only trying to provide a realistic image of what a woman can and will *encounter in the tree world*..



Your tree world., The 'tree world' is bigger than you think. 
Jeff


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## BC WetCoast (May 12, 2014)

Ontario's a big place. Where in Ontario? Obviously not Toronto, the big boys have that sewed up.


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## Zale (May 13, 2014)

I thought Canadians were always thoughtful, kind, friendly and respectful of others. Is that just a stereotype?


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## Brendon Phillips (May 13, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> You want me to chill out? You have basically called me a ass, meathead, and douche. Have I called you any names?
> 
> It's funny how a lot of the guys doing this are big strong guys as that was my main point!



You're right, I shouldn't resort to name calling. I apologize for that. 

My point was just because I'm a big guy doesn't mean I need to use that strength all the time. That whole work smarter not harder thing. But everyone does what works for them. I've seen featherweights that are much faster than I am that don't push logs. I hope the OP found a job with a good company and is working to much to be playing on here. With that being said, I'm done with this post. We should let this die.


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## CanopyGorilla (May 13, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> Says the guy with a avatar pic pushing a big block off. My 105 lb wife would never even be able to rock it back and forth a bit let alone push that block off. What happens when the dead weight sits on your bar when you fininsh that cut? Is a 100 lb girl or guy gonna pull a 660 out with one hand as they pushs the block with another? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black..


Take a look at the position of the bucket. I generally try NOT to pinch my bar. I made a snap cut and went back to the top to push. You must wear out bars pretty quick if you make a habit of pinching them.


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## jefflovstrom (May 13, 2014)

Brendon Phillips said:


> You're right, I shouldn't resort to name calling. I apologize for that.
> 
> My point was just because I'm a big guy doesn't mean I need to use that strength all the time. That whole work smarter not harder thing. But everyone does what works for them. I've seen featherweights that are much faster than I am that don't push logs. I hope the OP found a job with a good company and is working to much to be playing on here. With that being said, I'm done with this post. We should let this die.



Put your 'man-suit' back on Brendon,, Ole Shelby does his thing and don't live in the real world. Just let him spat.
Jeff


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## Brendon Phillips (May 13, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> Put your 'man-suit' back on Brendon,, Ole Shelby does his thing and don't live in the real world. Just let him spat.
> Jeff



Yeah, but name calling usually isn't me. That's the old me. That guys kind of a chit head. I stand by everything else I said. I still got my man pants on.


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## CanopyGorilla (May 13, 2014)

Brendon Phillips said:


> If you look a little closer, it looks like he made the cuts then moved to the top of the log and gave it a push. Is that how it went Gorilla? If so, that's much safer than cutting with one hand and pushing with another.


Yup, takes very little muscle. Funny, I weigh 215 and a lot of other big guys on here are advocates of women and lighter folk, what are you trying to prove Shelby? Little pecker got the best of ya?


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## CanopyGorilla (May 13, 2014)

P.S. I weigh a lot, but I also try not to work harder than I need to sonny.


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## BC WetCoast (May 14, 2014)

shelby78 said:


> You and I both know "unsafe" is a lot of the time the only way it can be done. Who actually keeps both hands on a 200t all the time, or even once  I'm not here to make friends. I was only trying to provide a realistic image of what a woman can and will encounter in the tree world.
> 
> We run a 3 man crew and that's all we need. There's no climber only guy, there's no stumper only guy. Everyone does everything with the exception of air work or crane work. I usually do most of the hardest work as I don't ask anymore from my guys that I put out myself. If the brush isn't done when I get down I start chipping, then load wood, then stump.
> 
> This is basically how most services run around here. Maybe you guys have stumper only guys and contract climbers but it doesn't work like that around here.



I keep both hands on my 201 at all times. 

You should watch Reg Coates' video on blocking down big wood by taking a deeper undercut. Both hands on the saw at all times, doesn't have to put a lot of effort into pushing. 

BTW, we run 6 crews and our 660 gets used about once every 2 weeks. Don't need to be a gorilla if you are a FULL service tree CARE company.


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