# price per hour felling



## Dirtscooter5 (Apr 9, 2015)

I have been felling trees for a guy along the Missouri river to open up a guys view. I am not very good at bidding so I think working by the hour maybe best. I am not a pro but own several saws and know my way around the woods decent. What is a good price per hour for felling trees. he is paying me 30 an hour right now.


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## SliverPicker (Apr 9, 2015)

You are more than 10X as likely to die felling trees than you are being a cop in the USA. Price yourself accordingly.

Whether or not you can do the necessary rate of production also needs to be considered.


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## bnmc98 (Apr 9, 2015)

are you an independent contractor?
Who gets the wood?
Is it going to the mill? 
How long of a job is it, how big of a job?
Your equipment and transportation?

these questions might help with figuring it out.


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## catbuster (Apr 9, 2015)

Is it thirty dollars per hour and you're charging him back his running costs? USFS pays Class C fallers 31-38 dollars per hour and supplies gear. 

Charge in the fifties, make a nice profit. You're the business. You set the price. The consumer chooses to pay it or not. If not, there are plenty of consumers who will.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm guessing your not insured, bonded, licensed or well much of anything yes?

In that case 30 is more then ample.

You start paying insurance, get a bond, biz licence, and opt to pay your own L+I then your going to want to thinking on doubling that.

Don't forget fuel, parts, etc.


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## bnmc98 (Apr 9, 2015)

catbuster said:


> Is it thirty dollars per hour and you're charging him back his running costs? USFS pays Class C fallers 31-38 dollars per hour and supplies gear.
> 
> Charge in the fifties, make a nice profit. You're the business. You set the price. The consumer chooses to pay it or not. If not, there are plenty of consumers who will.



Really? You would pay someone who is not a pro faller (who knows the experience he has, he didn't say) over $50 an hour to cut your wood?

What if he gets his saw stuck, and then the other in the first tree, or has 25 hang ups? Time is ticking.... besides, getting the tree cut is only part of the game, getting them cut so they can get them out, speed and efficiency, log quality.

nothing sucks worse than a game of pick up sticks at the end of a day.

And, C fallers are gov paid if I am not mistaken. That's not real world IMO. 

I'm not trying to bash your answer... just saying there is a lot more to take in consideration here.


Honestly, $30 per hr is real good for being green IMO.


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 10, 2015)

SliverPicker said:


> You are more than 10X as likely to die felling trees than you are being a cop in the USA. Price yourself accordingly.
> 
> Whether or not you can do the necessary rate of production also needs to be considered.


really? hmmm....really never think about that.


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## catbuster (Apr 10, 2015)

bnmc98 said:


> Really? You would pay someone who is not a pro faller (who knows the experience he has, he didn't say) over $50 an hour to cut your wood?
> 
> What if he gets his saw stuck, and then the other in the first tree, or has 25 hang ups? Time is ticking.... besides, getting the tree cut is only part of the game, getting them cut so they can get them out, speed and efficiency, log quality.
> 
> ...



As a former USFS faller and current red carded contractor, I can say that toting an MS440 with 28" bar and another 50 lbs of gear on a fireline is real world, and harder than any timber operation where no one is fighting smoke, heat and burning, hazard trees.

And money is money. And if the guy charges 30 per hour, by time he pays for equipment and fuel he's looking at half that. Which is 15 bucks and hour. Can anybody really live off that? The answer is no. Add another 15 to that and all of a sudden you're looking at a decent paycheck. 

If the guy is totally green why would you hire him? And if he messed up, I would send the guy packing and hire a person to fix the problem. Picking up the sticks isn't a faller's problem. If said faller does a poor job the stick pickers won't hire the faller back. Business licensing and insurance are cheap, and all of a sudden your costs are mostly people and equipment in business. I don't think 45 is too much, at all. Chainsaws are expensive tools to maintain and repair.

This just what I think as a mid-sized contractor who has hired many subcontractor timber cutters and has been through all this before.


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## SliverPicker (Apr 10, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> really? hmmm....really never think about that.



In 2014 cops died at a rate of 1.56 per 100,000. Loggers died at a rate of 104 per 100,000. Most cops die in traffic accidents. Almost half of those traffic deaths are from not wearing a seatbelt.


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## Dirtscooter5 (Apr 10, 2015)

It is just purely for making his view of the river better. fell them. buck them up a little and call it good. most of them are junk trees anyway. we may cut some fire wood out of them on our own time but that's it. Like I said I am no expert but have some knowledge. I am a full time farmer, mow grass on the side and pick up some tree cutting jobs for people. Sounds like 30 an hour is pretty close then. I am not insured for tree cutting but am insured for mowing. If I do much more felling I may think about getting insured.


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## Dirtscooter5 (Apr 10, 2015)

catbuster I like your opinion. I can charge a dollar a min for mowing grass and that is a lot less dangerous then tree work. we were cutting between the county road and the katy trail not much room for error. had about 40 mile an hour wind gusts. everything fell well except one tree got hung. used my lewis winch to pull it the rest of the way down.


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## bnmc98 (Apr 10, 2015)

catbuster said:


> As a former USFS faller and current red carded contractor, I can say that toting an MS440 with 28" bar and another 50 lbs of gear on a fireline is real world, and harder than any timber operation where no one is fighting smoke, heat and burning, hazard trees.
> 
> And money is money. And if the guy charges 30 per hour, by time he pays for equipment and fuel he's looking at half that. Which is 15 bucks and hour. Can anybody really live off that? The answer is no. Add another 15 to that and all of a sudden you're looking at a decent paycheck.
> 
> ...



You have some interesting perspectives, and you are entitled to them. I won't get into a spitting match with you. My perspective is different than yours on a number of things. its what I do for a living, and I do not spend half my pay on equipment and fuel. Chainsaws are very cheap to run and purchase compared to other industries and equipment.

Picking up sticks is everything fwiw. You don't plan your lay and you cost the hiring agent $. It is your problem....

Your pay will be what the market will bear or you will not work. end of story.

A land owner that may have some extra cash could be a good deal for someone who is learning. Going to a gypo and saying I have no experience and I will charge you 45 an hour around here will get you some good laughs I think. Maybe not where you are though.

I have personally had USFS training and did falling and saw work and even went on a few fires to cut. Whole different ball game than production logging. I found out I didn't know my butt from a hole in the ground. Got an education real quick. Just my experience, but I was not a C faller, just a class B. I did watch a few C fallers, but back then they were also hiring pro's to come in and do a lot of cutting too. 

But... this does not sound like production logging, so... There may be not much applicable from logging. And its difficult to say what to charge, cause its not the same.

.... I still think 30 an hr is fair for a side job, but the guy might be more generous, never know till you ask. Good for experience, none the less.


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## Dirtscooter5 (Apr 10, 2015)

I def agree I prolly don't know my butt from a hole in the ground either when it comes to felling. I would love to learn more and get better at it. Since I farm full time I guess I figure the only way to learn was to do jobs and learn hands on. Its not my lively hood just fun and makes some extra cash on the side.


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## bnmc98 (Apr 10, 2015)

Sounds like a good deal.. win win.

and, just to clarify because I think catbuster took it the wrong way. I do not think wildland firefighters are not the real deal. I said the* pay* is not real world. I have experienced the whole sitting at base camp collecting hazard pay and overtime along with 200 BIA workers while a handful of smokejumpers fight a few lightning strikes that got a little out of hand in a wilderness area full of rock and marsh, there was so much water there that the smokejumpers had to wear full wool even facemasks because of the mosquitos. The fire name was the mosquito complex, but because it was not contained we all got perks as far as pay. I remember listening to the radio dispatch say they would fly up shrimp cocktail to them in a chopper.... I kid you not. We would throw hundreds of resources away after a fire like that that never got used... straight to the dump.
I am just saying that there is a difference between gov money, trying to spend budget and business money where the owner is trying to keep as much as they can, and not get rid of it. different philosophies, different demands.


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 10, 2015)

this is all fine and dandy banter..........my only concern is that dirtscooter should stay safe. idk what style is popular there in MO, around here every one jumps. no one knows any better. now that i know better, i am afraid for folks that they may get hurt.
it would be nice if scooter could get at least a little training from some one who knows what they are doing. thats a tall order as some places there ain't any body who knows that they are skirting death all day.


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## SliverPicker (Apr 10, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> really? hmmm....really never think about that.



In 2013 11.1 cops per 100,000 died at work. Less than half of those where murdered.

In 2013 127.8 loggers per 100,000 died at work. I wonder how many were murdered?

That's more than 11X the risk of death if you are a logger vs. being a cop.


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## Dirtscooter5 (Apr 10, 2015)

I mean I am 26 years old and have been around and cut wood since I was big enough to run a little homelite. My parents burned wood as their only heat source and now wood heat is all me and my wife have in our house also. while im not a pro logger its not my first day with a chain saw in my hands. What do you mean by everyone jumps tree slayer?


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 10, 2015)

stump jump, slick stump........it means to cut the tree completely off with no face or hinge. study the falling picks here and pay attention to how the face cuts meet exactly with no over kerf either way. make your faces nice and open and your cuts accurate.
i'm not calling you dumb or any thing. i jumped timber for 20 years for a living.......i was fast and lucky for 20 years.


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## Dirtscooter5 (Apr 10, 2015)

I see right on, I notch almost everthing I cut unless its really small. I am sure its far from perfect though, so I will def be looking at more felling pics and ideas on here


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## Dirtscooter5 (Apr 11, 2015)

Mindy this has been brought up already on this thread, I appreciate the info. farming is also a very dangerous career. I saved my bosses life last march as a tillage tool fell on him and he was crushed like a tin can. I realize the danger in everything I do but don't plan to quit because I love farming and tree cutting. Driving a car is also very dangerous but I don't plan to quit that either.


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 11, 2015)

scooter that may be spam


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## Dirtscooter5 (Apr 11, 2015)

o okay


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 11, 2015)

what kind of trees will you be falling?


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## slowp (Apr 11, 2015)

SliverPicker said:


> In 2013 11.1 cops per 100,000 died at work. Less than half of those where murdered.
> 
> In 2013 127.8 loggers per 100,000 died at work. I wonder how many were murdered?
> 
> That's more than 11X the risk of death if you are a logger vs. being a cop.



Those deaths are not just falling, I presume. In the 1980s we had an entire landing crew wiped out on their way to work. A semi driver fell asleep and hit their crummy head on. They were all local guys. When logging picks up, so do accidents-- I can think of two fatalities that happened to guys working in the rigging last year.


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 11, 2015)

oh there is lots of ways to buy it besides while falling. it may sound strange but i am much more comfortable falling than on the road.


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## Dirtscooter5 (Apr 11, 2015)

My fire wood is mostly red and white oak. clearing for this guys view is a hodge poge of stuff. red cedar, hackberry, oak, elm, and ash.


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## Dirtscooter5 (Apr 11, 2015)

same here slayer, hard tellin what some of them other drivers have smoked or snorted and are behind the wheel of a 70 mph bullet. In the woods its the good lord, you and the trees.


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 11, 2015)

you seem to be a descent fellow, i hope you stick around and ask questions. i for one will help you if i can. we like pics


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## Dirtscooter5 (Apr 11, 2015)

thanks same to you, I plan to hang around and try and learn a lot. I will try and get some good pics.


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## Gologit (Apr 11, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> scooter that may be spam


 It's spam.


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## Westboastfaller (Apr 11, 2015)

slowp said:


> Those deaths are not just falling, I presume. In the 1980s we had an entire landing crew wiped out on their way to work. A semi driver fell asleep and hit their crummy head on. They were all local guys. When logging picks up, so do accidents-- I can think of two fatalities that happened to guys working in the rigging last year.



Older stats, all industries have improved some but still puts logging fishing and bush pilots as 1, 2 & 3
Cops died at less than half the rate and are not in the top ten.
It goes on to say. Although 50 cops were murdered that year...so were 205 salespeople. Biggest work place killer is by far driving, then at 23%. Then falls NO. 2 and murder at NO.3
Its also been documented that there was more fatalities in crab fishing vs Fallers?
That may be so as they have a small fleet
And if one boat goes down that would give them an an extremely high fatality rate.
But put a PNW Faller against crab fisherman and that wouldn't hold true at all. 90% of fallers here have not even cut for merch timber.
America’s Most Dangerous Jobs All data for calendar year 2000. *Deaths per 100,000 employed. Sources: Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Labor
*Job* *Number Of Fatalities* *Fatality Rate*
Timber Cutters* 105 -122.1
*Fishermen* 52 -108.3
*Pilots* 230 -100.8
*Structural Metal Workers* 47- 59.5
*Extractive Occupations* 69 -53.9
*Roofers* 65 -30.2
*Construction Workers* 288- 28.3
*Truck Drivers* 852- 27.6
*All Occupations* 5,915 4.3

In 2000, timber cutters had the most dangerous job, suffering 122 deaths per 100,000 employed. These workers toil in the woods accessible by dirt roads, with heavy machinery and amongst falling trees. The second most dangerous occupation is fishing, with fishermen dying at a rate of 108 per 100,000 of those employed. Airplane pilots have the third most dangerous occupation, with a death rate of 101 per 100,000. Nearly all of these deaths resulted from small-plane crashes, not on passenger jets.


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## D man (Apr 12, 2015)

Dirtscooter5 said:


> I have been felling trees for a guy along the Missouri river to open up a guys view. I am not very good at bidding so I think working by the hour maybe best. I am not a pro but own several saws and know my way around the woods decent. What is a good price per hour for felling trees. he is paying me 30 an hour right now.


Hey guy, Your selling yourself way short.. Felling is dangerous and you need to know how to and where... I am in NJ and I get $90 an hour to fell trees... But I am also in the forestry business..


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## Whitespider (Apr 17, 2015)

I charge by the tree... chargin' by the hour will bite ya' in the azz.

*I'VE MOVED HERE*


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## SliverPicker (Apr 17, 2015)

I was offered a job at $98 per hour last year by a heli outfit. 70 acres and I had three months to get it done. Steep, but not rocky. Due to prior commitments I couldn't fit the job into my schedule. I would have needed help as well. I only know two other guys around these parts that hand fall. Both of them have steady day jobs.

I could stand about 20 solid years of that kind of work!


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## Whitespider (Apr 17, 2015)

I charge by the tree... chargin' by the hour will bite ya' in the azz.

*I'VE MOVED HERE*


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## Brushwacker (Apr 17, 2015)

Whitespider said:


> I charge by the tree... chargin' by the hour will bite ya' in the azz.
> 
> *I'VE MOVED HERE*


 I know a tree service man did that and the tree was full of cement way up the trunk, I don't know how many chains it took before he finally hired a wrecker service to pull it over since he couldn't get it down..


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## Whitespider (Apr 17, 2015)

Brushwacker said:


> _*I know a tree service man did that...*_


You're not thinkin' I was serious??
*


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