# Stihl MS 661 having the bog blues



## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

I was out on a tree removal job yesterday, I used my 661 to buck and limb a large pee pine. The saw has about 3 gallons ran through it. The saw has a bog off idle when limbing, but its not like the 562 Husqvarna bog. the 661 bog is intermittent. other than that it runs great. Using stihl ultra at 45:1 with non ethanol 91 oct fuel. I tried switching the carb heater vent to winter but no change. Another thing I noticed was even when the saw was new after a long hard cut it has a lean lope when returned to idle then after a few seconds it clears up and idles normal. WEIRD. Would it be worth the time to reset the metering arm level?


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

As for my other M-tronic saw the 241cm it runs PERFECT, have like 5 gal of fuel ran through that bugger


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## big t double (Mar 28, 2015)

have you tried the reset?


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

Not sure how to reset it yet


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## big t double (Mar 28, 2015)

put it in the "start" postion and let it idle like that for 90 seconds then shut if off. be quick going from "start" to "off". then restart the saw and let it idle in the run position for 60 seconds then make 5 uniform cuts in a log. some will tell you to remove the bar and chain and some will say its not necessary...im in the not necessary camp. see if that helps.


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

ok just did the reset, still bogging. It only bogs at the coming off idle after the trigger has been blipped a few times, like when your limbing. So what is sounds like is when you make a bigger cut then when it idles down it sounds lean, if at that point you hit the throttle before the saw idle has stabilized it will bog briefily then pull out of it just fine. sounds like a lean bog to me, but why does it race a little at idle after a long hard cut?


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## Deets066 (Mar 28, 2015)

Damn technology.....


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## rmh3481 (Mar 28, 2015)

>>why does it race a little at idle after a long hard cut?
Too lean.


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

No, I don't really think the problem is with the m-tronic, I had a 385xp with a tillioson carb on it that acted the same way, replaced the carb with a newer walbro and that saw ran fine. Main nozzle problem????


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

well I know its lean but WHY


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## coltont (Mar 28, 2015)

That's just how the m tronic saws sound.


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

Well my 241 sounds nothing like that when it idles down, it returns to a steady idle instantly kinda like a diesel engine would


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## MustangMike (Mar 28, 2015)

With the reset procedure, I would do 90 seconds at Start, shut it down. Do 90 sec on Run, shut it down. Then start it and put it in some big wood.

That is what seems to have worked with me 362 C. Good Luck with it.


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## Moparmyway (Mar 28, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> With the reset procedure, I would do 90 seconds at Start, shut it down. Do 90 sec on Run, shut it down. Then start it and put it in some big wood.


This is how my STihl dealer does it, and instructed me to do the same. I did the reset right away, I am not having the problems you describe with my 661r.

Did yours start to do this recently after it was running fine, or has it been doing in since you got it ?


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

It did it a little when I first bought it and has been getting progressively worse, I figured the computer just needed to adjust, but after more than 3 gallons and it's not improving, this problem is deeper than the simple m-tronic. I just reset the carb again, it actually was worse the first time I revved it to start the long cut


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## Roll Tide (Mar 28, 2015)

Have you pulled the muffler amd looked at the piston to see if there is any scoring?


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

no scoring, and it has right at 160 psi compression


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

just did another test, it seems to bog more when on its side


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## Moparmyway (Mar 28, 2015)

If mine were doing this, I would look over the hoses and fuel filter, make sure the tank was full - and if everything looks good and the problem didnt go away after the reset I would just tweak the fuel metering lever, especially since it happened since its life began with you.

If - at that point - my saw still had a problem, I would go right back to the dealer and ask them to look at it right now. I would watch them and wait. That might not be possible for you, but I would try to make it happen.

Now, I might just try a vac test before I took it for a trip to the dealer, its easy enough for me to do it. If you have what you need to vac test it, it might be worth it to check. I doubt there is a problem since it doesnt happen all of the time, but just checking wouldnt hurt anything.


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## Roll Tide (Mar 28, 2015)

I'd take it straight back to the dealer !


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## Mastermind (Mar 28, 2015)

Rubber washers in the intake maybe?


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

anyone got a muffler shell they will sell me???? then I can return it to the dealer


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

Hey randy, is mine running goofy because its missing the donuts in the intake?


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## Mastermind (Mar 28, 2015)

Open the carb wide open and shine a light in there. Make sure there ain't no washers in there.


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

I actually already pulled the carb, inside the intake looked clean and no washers to speak of. I double checked the fuel hose and impulse hose, both tight and no kinks. I raised the metering arm level by .005" and did another reset, that didn't help, nor did it change anything


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## redfin (Mar 28, 2015)

Did you clean the carb while you were in there?


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## Mastermind (Mar 28, 2015)

You prolly need a carb solenoid.


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## funky sawman (Mar 28, 2015)

how much do those cost?


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## Mastermind (Mar 28, 2015)

About 25.00


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## Grey (Mar 28, 2015)

My 261CM seems to be doing something similar. Bogs or stalls on the first blip after start up, then runs perfectly. Reset tomorrow...


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## Mastermind (Mar 28, 2015)

Stalling a little on startup is nothing to worry about. I wouldn't reset. It will need to relearn again.


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## Grey (Mar 28, 2015)

Thanks Monkey.


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## Mastermind (Mar 28, 2015)

You are welcome sir.


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## Moparmyway (Mar 29, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> I actually already pulled the carb, inside the intake looked clean and no washers to speak of. I double checked the fuel hose and impulse hose, both tight and no kinks. I raised the metering arm level by .005" and did another reset, that didn't help, nor did it change anything


Thats the extent of what I would do at home ........... if it was mine, the time for a trip back to the dealer has come.

Randys experience trumps all, and the forums have plenty of M-tronic "glitches" being fixxed with them carb solenoids

My dealer would just give me the carb solenoid and let me do the repair on my own (used to work for him as a snot-nosed teenager) since he knows I dont like anyone working on my stuff.


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## the GOAT (Mar 29, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Open the carb wide open and shine a light in there. Make sure there ain't no washers in there.



Maybe it needs them washers.


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## funky sawman (Mar 29, 2015)

So right now my plan is to order a carb solenoid and try that. If that doesn't work then I will have to buy a new muffler and take it into my dealer that pretty much knows jack %#.. about m-tronic saws. I opened up the factory outlet on the muffler is all Ive done to the saw as far as mods.


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## funky sawman (Mar 29, 2015)

Ok just for the sake of learning, what causes any 2 stroke to run lean for a few seconds after a long full load pull. Like Ive said before, a 385 husky did the same thing as the 661 is doing. After carb swap the saw ran fine. What was the carb doing to cause a nice stable idle and be set kinda rich on the top end 12,500 rpm then come back to idle lean for a few seconds, then idle fine again. also With that 385, if is set the idle really low, at 2200 rpm it no longer raced at idle after a full load pull


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## funky sawman (Mar 29, 2015)

Ohh and just so you know the said 385 was a low hour unit, with a tillitson carb with no throttle plate or cross shaft wear


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## sunfish (Mar 29, 2015)

Funky, seems you have more saw trouble than a person should? Hope ya get it runnin right...


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## funky sawman (Mar 29, 2015)

yea, the only saws Ive ever had that run perfect all the time I can count on one hand!! Those saw were the ms241, husky 372, jonnyred 2095, and a stihl ms440. Best runners of all time those saws were, the only one of those I still have is a 241


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## funky sawman (Mar 30, 2015)

ordered the carb solenoid today, costs 18 dollars, the dealer said he was gonna order 10 of them cause the fit all models of M-tronics, that's cool that its a universal part.


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## Mastermind (Mar 30, 2015)

Just for anyone that may need this.....

M-Tronic fuel solenoid 0000 120 5110


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## funky sawman (Mar 30, 2015)

The shop tech was standing there when I ordered the solenoid, he asked why I need on of those, I just told him that I wanted a spare..... I just don't trust the mechanics around here, so warranty or not, I still do my own work.


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## big t double (Mar 30, 2015)

Here's some destructions if you want em...and can read em.


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## funky sawman (Apr 6, 2015)

darn part must be backordered from stihl, stihl waiting LOL


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## funky sawman (Apr 17, 2015)

Finally got the carb solenoid valve. It was very simple to install, like 10 minutes total. I really like the design and simplicity of this saw... tomorrow I have a load of firewood to cut and I will report back my findings.


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## chris zautner (Apr 17, 2015)

big t double said:


> Here's some destructions if you want em...and can read em.
> View attachment 415843
> 
> View attachment 415844
> ...


what website is that on?


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## big t double (Apr 17, 2015)

chris zautner said:


> what website is this on?


Arboristsite.com


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## treesmith (Apr 17, 2015)

My 661cxb doesnt bog at all but it does hunt at idle for a few seconds after a cut then a beautiful steady idle, its not an issue as it revs instantly and has never cut out


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## funky sawman (Apr 17, 2015)

Hey treesmith, now when its "hunting at idle" try blipping the trigger as fast as you can a few times, this is when mine boggs. I guess if I wasn't a throttle blipper the saw would show no problems whatsoever.


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## Knobby57 (Apr 18, 2015)

I've found a grabby chain can throw them off a bit . Maybe it's something with the rpm variation . Easy enough to try a fresh chain 


Sent from my phone when I should be working


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## funky sawman (Apr 18, 2015)

ok, went out an bucked a 1/2 a cord with it, even after resetting the m-tronic, it still is bogging. I am finding that as the outside temp gets hotter the saw boggs more. this morning when it was 55 degrees it ran fairly well, then it got up to 70 degrees and it was bogging a lot.


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## chris zautner (Apr 18, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> ok, went out an bucked a 1/2 a cord with it, even after resetting the m-tronic, it still is bogging. I am finding that as the outside temp gets hotter the saw boggs more. this morning when it was 55 degrees it ran fairly well, then it got up to 70 degrees and it was bogging a lot.


my 441 cm does the same exact thing


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## Deets066 (Apr 18, 2015)




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## MustangMike (Apr 18, 2015)

My 362 C ran great all day today .... Sorry! Hope you get it worked out what ever it is.


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## funky sawman (Apr 18, 2015)

If I didn't need a big saw, I sure would like to have a ms362cm


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## funky sawman (Apr 18, 2015)

I am suspect of a bad discharge nozzle in carb......... BUT I have never been successful in changing one of those out without damaging the carb housing ARGGG


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## Locust Cutter (Apr 18, 2015)

Subbed...


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## chris zautner (Apr 18, 2015)

i took my saw back to the dealer and they plugged into the computer and it said there was nothing wrong so they adjusted some things and reset the mtronic and it work fine for a half tank and now its got the god damn bog blues now. ive got about ten tank in her now i'm thinking about taking her to a different dealer that really knows about mtronic and have them fix it.


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## treesmith (Apr 18, 2015)

Solenoid?


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## chris zautner (Apr 18, 2015)

i hope so


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## CR888 (Apr 18, 2015)

Sounds like the op 661 needs a 1/4 turn of the L and a re-adjust of the H.......mmm what does one do in this insance with Mtronic?? l would be using that expensive oncost to the msrp called warranty. You paid for it now its time to use it. Completely unacceptable to have such a low hour latest tech saw do this to you and you decided to buy the best you could afford as you make a living with saws. You need to make it Stihls problem whether they know how to fix it or not. lf they cannot, one should expect a new saw. Time to be firm...let them know this is costing you and it needs to be resolved pronto!


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## MustangMike (Apr 18, 2015)

Sawman, I gave the 362 a good workout today, but I was glad to have the ported 046 for the bigger stuff, and that 661 should be the next level yet when you get it worked out. I also would take it back and good luck with it.

FYI (or anyone else) with all my saws today (M-Tronic or not), it was so warm that after I initially started them on (Start/Choke), respectively, the rest of the day I started them on Run/Idle/or Fast Idle. Did not have to use either Choke or Start position the rest of the day, even if the sat for over 1/2 hr.


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## funky sawman (Apr 18, 2015)

looks like I have to order a new muffler at this point. I will try it for a day with a stock muffler to see if the larger outlet of the modded muffler caused it to be to lean on the idle transition circuit. If that don't fix it, then in to the dealer it goes....


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## funky sawman (Apr 18, 2015)

CR888 said:


> Sounds like the op 661 needs a 1/4 turn of the L and a re-adjust of the H.......mmm what does one do in this insance with Mtronic?? l would be using that expensive oncost to the msrp called warranty. You paid for it now its time to use it. Completely unacceptable to have such a low hour latest tech saw do this to you and you decided to buy the best you could afford as you make a living with saws. You need to make it Stihls problem whether they know how to fix it or not. lf they cannot, one should expect a new saw. Time to be firm...let them know this is costing you and it needs to be resolved pronto!


Yea, I fully agree CR888, if only I could fatten up the idle circuit a few jet sizes LOL


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## CR888 (Apr 18, 2015)

l have a M/Mind MS660 and while a solid saw, it is essentially a 30year old design and things have come a long way since. The AV on a 660 is not in the same league as the later generation spring setups not even on the same page. l intend to get a 661 but l am not in a rush. l hoped that the 661 would be a 90cc ms261/ms362cm with auto style hd2 filter, Mtronics, spring av, strato tech to solve the fuel guzzling nature of the 660 and the 661 has all these features but issues keep arising with this model. lt may be my perception however the new saw does not seem to have the dependibility that the 660 does. You always know your 660 will take more than you can throw at it, day in day out. The 661 needs to have a few minor bugs removed before l pull the trigger which l am sure stihl will fix. They have too, its their flagship saw. l know guys out there are running them without any issues what so ever but l as said it may just be my perception or gutt feel but l am not completely sold on a 661 just yet. l hope that will change as l want the latest, lightest 90cc saw on the market... stihl moto sagen 661.


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## CR888 (Apr 18, 2015)

l hope you g


funky sawman said:


> Yea, I fully agree CR888, if only I could fatten up the idle circuit a few jet sizes LOL


l hope you get it sorted without to much heartache. Stihl's flagship saw should be a strong solid reliable runner right out of the box. Persistance will overcome Stihls resistance to help. Unfortunately you have to play the game with them that you never wanted to play. Someone who runs a saw all day knows when its not performing as it should irrespective of what computer say. l have been a big supporter of A/T /Mtronic's going as far as stating that its the biggest sole improvement to the gas chainsaw in three odd decades. However these systems are giving grief to what apperars an increasing percentage of owners. Bring on FI!!


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## CR888 (Apr 18, 2015)

I would be interested to see how your saw ran with a known good carb. Not easy l know to get your hands on one. This is all really Stihls problem while the saw remains under warranty. The Mtronic system usually deals with a muff modd fine by retuning itself, but l still think the carb is not functioning as intended.


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## treesmith (Apr 18, 2015)

CR888 said:


> Bring on FI!!



Fuel Injection would be cool

Forced Induction  now that would really be something 

661cxb is my favourite saw I've ever used, good weight and fantastic power, smooth, well balanced, it's a great saw


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## Locust Cutter (Apr 19, 2015)

After all of the crap I got for having a 562xp (and it's previous issues) and how I should have bought a Stihl... LMAO. In all seriousness, I hope the OP can get this resolved quickly as having something your making money with, malfunctioning is infuriating especially when you're essentially told to "I have a potty mouth"... I like the looks of this saw and would still like to try one to see if I like it's torque near as much as my 9010 or a 395xp.


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## MustangMike (Apr 20, 2015)

In reading other threads I think I understand why I needed to do the "Reset" procedure on my 362 after getting it back from Randy. He uses a different oil than I do, and a different ratio. I believe this is what threw things off.

Glad Locust Cutter got his issue resolved, and I hope you do also.


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## treesmith (Apr 20, 2015)

Hmmm, good point, I've not reset since changing ratio either


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## Moparmyway (Apr 20, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> ok, went out an bucked a 1/2 a cord with it, even after resetting the m-tronic, it still is bogging. I am finding that as the outside temp gets hotter the saw boggs more. this morning when it was 55 degrees it ran fairly well, then it got up to 70 degrees and it was bogging a lot.


I tried blippin mine right after a cut, for a few cuts, and you know what ................ that bog shows up once in a while in mine.
I am not really a throttle blipper, but if I were, I bet that bog would annoy me.

Went back to normal cutting (for me) and didnt see or hear that bog or hesitation for the rest of the day


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## treesmith (Apr 20, 2015)

Never noticed a bog on mine, just been using it, all it does is hunt for a second or two after a cut, otherwise perfect


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## redbull660 (Apr 20, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> looks like I have to order a new muffler at this point. I will try it for a day with a stock muffler to see if the larger outlet of the modded muffler caused it to be to lean on the idle transition circuit. If that don't fix it, then in to the dealer it goes....



I've got an extra 661 bone stock muffler I can probably loan ya. got it for my muff mod test, which I can't really do at the moment so... pm sent


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## CR888 (Apr 20, 2015)

treesmith said:


> Fuel Injection would be cool
> 
> Forced Induction  now that would really be something
> 
> 661cxb is my favourite saw I've ever used, good weight and fantastic power, smooth, well balanced, it's a great saw


l really want a 661 and thought l'd definately have one by now, as l wanted one l probably looked at too many threads with peoples issues and my logic got skewed. l also have had a steady flow of incoming saws and been restoring a few old partners for the shelf. I know on any given day a NIBor low hour 661R will hit the trading post and l'll wanna give it a plane ride. lts also gonna stay stock for a while untill we know each other. l also want to see if any parts can be added to my 660 from a 661 like springs, dawgs, clutch cover with captive nuts and stuff. I like it when l hear your 661 is your favorite saw to run, your opinion is rated.


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## Moparmyway (Apr 20, 2015)

CR888 said:


> . l also want to see if any parts can be added to my 660 from a 661 like springs, dawgs, clutch cover with captive nuts and stuff.


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## Moparmyway (Apr 20, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> I've got an extra 661 bone stock muffler I can probably loan ya. got it for my muff mod test, which I can't really do at the moment so... pm sent


When he is done with it, if you want, I will give that muffler an opening just like mine, and I will put in my screen, then send it to you so you can see if your 661 is the same, better, or worse compared with the one I modify for you to install.

I wont even need any video confirmation, nor will I care if you run any used chains, just the seat of your pants response will be fine for me (after a reset of course ).


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## funky sawman (Apr 20, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> I tried blippin mine right after a cut, for a few cuts, and you know what ................ that bog shows up once in a while in mine.
> I am not really a throttle blipper, but if I were, I bet that bog would annoy me.
> 
> Went back to normal cutting (for me) and didnt see or hear that bog or hesitation for the rest of the day


Same here, yesterday I bucked a cord of large doug fir rounds and only pulled the trigger for cutting the rounds, I did not have any limbs to cut so the bog did not show up. Mine will bog for instance after you make a long cut then start limbing right away.


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## Moparmyway (Apr 20, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Same here, yesterday I bucked a cord of large doug fir rounds and only pulled the trigger for cutting the rounds, I did not have any limbs to cut so the bog did not show up. Mine will bog for instance after you make a long cut then start limbing right away.


I will have to check that on mine next time I run her.
Its interesting how it seems this might be a common issue


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## funky sawman (Apr 21, 2015)

Here we go with an update today. I was doing a thinning and pruning job today and I needed the longer length of the 32" 661 to reach some large grand fir limbs. When the saw is running full throttle while the bar is pointed to the sky it runs really rich, four stroken like crazy, then when bar is horizontal it revs a lot higher. Still sounds like a carb issue to me.


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## Derrick Sawyer (Apr 21, 2015)

Sorry I can't help with Mtronic since I sold all the ones I briefly had (too new for me), but my 044 was having a similar issue as I think your 385 where after a long cut, the idle would drop too low and die, dropping to 2200 rpm, versus normal idle around 2600-2800, so if I set idle at 3000, it will still stay running when it drops idle but still very annoying, and once in while the idle would drop on its own. Tried to clean out the C3M carb and new carb kit but didn't fix, so swapped in another carb and that fixed it. Probably is the carb in your case, but just curious if the same intake adaptors work to do pressure/vac testing on the new saws as the with the older ones, and if a seal leak on a regular saw can appear as in increase in WOT RPM with saw tilted to one side, would an Mtronic try to adjust for this and then run like crap but not run too lean (thinking like the opposite of intellicarb, that would lean mix due to clogged air filter)


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## MustangMike (Apr 21, 2015)

Almost sounds like an air leak problem. There is no other reason I can think of that the saw would run different when pointed up, unless something is wrong with your fuel delivery.

Did you change fuel filter, fuel line & plug just to rule the simple stuff out? If so, I think I would vac test it next.


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## Locust Cutter (Apr 21, 2015)

This partially sounds like a kinked fuel line, similar to some recent Huskys... BUT, changing position sounds very much like a crankcase leak...


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## Moparmyway (Apr 22, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Here we go with an update today. I was doing a thinning and pruning job today and I needed the longer length of the 32" 661 to reach some large grand fir limbs. When the saw is running full throttle while the bar is pointed to the sky it runs really rich, four stroken like crazy, then when bar is horizontal it revs a lot higher. Still sounds like a carb issue to me.


I will try this with mine.
I should be firing her up this weekend and will report back to you asap


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## the GOAT (Apr 22, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> My 362 C ran great all day today .....



Awesome!!!


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## Robin Wood (Apr 22, 2015)

Locust Cutter said:


> This partially sounds like a kinked fuel line, similar to some recent Huskys... BUT, changing position sounds very much like a crankcase leak...



thought the same since OP's 1st few posts, gotta suck if its crankcase leak
even if it does hope he gets away with bad crank seals


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## redbull660 (Apr 22, 2015)

muffler on it's way! hope they fix your saw fast man.


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## funky sawman (Apr 25, 2015)

Thanks to redbull660 my saw is now at the dealer getting warranty work. Lets see what happens...


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## CR888 (Apr 25, 2015)

Redbull a good guy. l think he is Stihls biggest single customer. lf he decided to run husky, they'd be in trouble for sure. lts interesting how the op says after a long cut if he switches to limbing the throttle response falls on its face, it sorta seems like its stihl tuned rich from the long cut and is not recalibrating itself quick enough. Redbull will get it sorted for ya, otherwise he'll have Andreas on the phone.


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## funky sawman (Apr 25, 2015)

I hope my dealer can figure it out, he told me they did not have the diagnostic software to plug the saw into cause it costs like 800 dollars.


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## funky sawman (Apr 25, 2015)

meanwhile my little 241cm is running like a dream, even trying to cut the big stuff that I would be normally using the 661 on


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## funky sawman (Apr 25, 2015)

I will say this, if the 362cm is anything like the 241, it would be one heck of a saw....realy starting to have early buyers remorse, but then again I gotta give the dealer a chance to figure this saw out before I give up on it.


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## AKDoug (Apr 26, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> I hope my dealer can figure it out, he told me they did not have the diagnostic software to plug the saw into cause it costs like 800 dollars.


You can test everything without the software. On the flip side, I own the software and have never needed it yet


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## Wood Doctor (Apr 26, 2015)

Rather interesting that I have rebuilt three MS660 saws and one 066 that were all down one way or the other from either accidents or abuse, but all of them now run fine today. Not one displays the symptoms described in this thread and the 066 has to be 15 years old. I have to be hesitant about the MS661.


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## redbull660 (Apr 26, 2015)

Wood Doctor said:


> Rather interesting that I have rebuilt three MS660 saws and one 066 that were all down one way or the other from either accidents or abuse, but all of them now run fine today. Not one displays the symptoms described in this thread and the 066 has to be 15 years old. I have to be hesitant about the MS661.



I'll sell you my mint 660R i used for some of my tests.


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## nk14zp (Apr 26, 2015)

A 395xp will cure all your bogging troubles.


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## MustangMike (Apr 26, 2015)

I ran a 661 at GTG today, very impressed.


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## Wood Doctor (Apr 27, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> I'll sell you my mint 660R i used for some of my tests.


That would indeed be interesting provided any one of the four decides to conk out. Trouble is, these saws love to run and the loggers using them have good experience with them. So, they rarely fail. Occasionally a big log gets loose and rolls over one of them. They have even survived that with a new tank housing and chain brake handle.

Right now these saws are all keepers and three of them are pulling 36" bars for big cottonwoods. Regardless, RedBull, I'll file your offer away and holler as needed. I'm going to be heading north to Danbury, WI early next month. How far are you away from that path? Might be worth a PM.


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## Moparmyway (Apr 27, 2015)

How much are you sellin it for ?


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## Wood Doctor (Apr 27, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> probably 1050 pho your choice of muffler. 3x port, 2x port, 2x port no baffle.


I think we will live with our Weber wrap handles that I mounted in March on two of our big saws. They work. I do appreciate your offer.


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## funky sawman (Apr 28, 2015)

A saw with about 10 gallons run threw it, is it possible to trade it in on another if the dealer cant figure it out in a timily manner? The 661 was bought in febuary


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## Cope1024 (Apr 28, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> A saw with about 10 gallons run threw it, is it possible to trade it in on another if the dealer cant figure it out in a timily manner? The 661 was bought in febuary


I would think Stihl can do whatever they want to, and I'm sure you will be OK in the end. Only thing I'd do different is not put any money into troubleshooting. That said, at least you have a spare part.


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## MustangMike (Apr 28, 2015)

They can take care of you however they want when you are under warranty. I think I would ask for another 661 though, most users seem very happy with them.


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## treesmith (Apr 28, 2015)

Tried the throttle blips after a long cut and no bog at all, did you try another solenoid?


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## funky sawman (Apr 28, 2015)

yes solenoid was replaced.


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## funky sawman (Apr 28, 2015)

talked to a stihl rep today above and beyond the dealer. The guy was real nice, he is going to inform the shop that they must get the diagnostic tools


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## MustangMike (Apr 28, 2015)

Better yet, have them give U a new one and send this one back to Germany for analysis! Don't they get into doing that? I don't think that anyone that had a prototype 661 got to keep it.


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## funky sawman (Apr 29, 2015)

Well I should have posted that the dealer could not find an issue with the saw, so he returned it to me to try it. He pressure and vac tested, checked impulse, checked intake boot, checked welch plugs in carb and fuel hose for kinks. No problems found. I retested the saw and still same issues. he also used canned stihl fuel premix with no change in running.


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## Moparmyway (Apr 29, 2015)

I run VP, and have that bog more often if I try piss revving ............... if I leave it for a second (after any cut), I don't get it. Still have to try the overhead thing


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## big t double (Apr 29, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Well I should have posted that the dealer could not find an issue with the saw, so he returned it to me to try it. He pressure and vac tested, checked impulse, checked intake boot, checked welch plugs in carb and fuel hose for kinks. No problems found. I retested the saw and still same issues. he also used canned stihl fuel premix with no change in running.


Was he able to reproduce the problem in his shop? That sucks man....I'd be interested in seeing a video of the bog.


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## Robin Wood (Apr 29, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Well I should have posted that the dealer could not find an issue with the saw, so he returned it to me to try it. He pressure and vac tested, checked impulse, checked intake boot, checked welch plugs in carb and fuel hose for kinks. No problems found. I retested the saw and still same issues. he also used canned stihl fuel premix with no change in running.



You said rev changed when saw was lifted up in the air and when on sideways, does it still happen ?


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## funky sawman (Apr 29, 2015)

Saw runs to same as before, still has rev change when tip of bar is up


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## Roll Tide (Apr 29, 2015)

I'd return it and demand a new saw. If they are no help contact your rep again, he should be able to take care of it.


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## pro94lt (Apr 29, 2015)

Blame it on the 562xp!!!


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 29, 2015)

Maybe you found the elusive 661 recall defect from when they came out ,and no one would tell what it was ,or maybe not ,who knows .


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## sunfish (Apr 29, 2015)

pro94lt said:


> Blame it on the 562xp!!!


That is definitely the problem!!!


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## Locust Cutter (Apr 29, 2015)

So Don does this Husky bashing mean that I can buy one of your ported 357XPs or at least have the right of first refusal???


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## sunfish (Apr 29, 2015)

Locust Cutter said:


> So Don does this Husky bashing mean that I can buy one of your ported 357XPs or at least have the right of first refusal???


Yeah Bryan, I'll trade you a XP of a MS...


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## Locust Cutter (Apr 29, 2015)

But Don... I'd have to trade you 2x MS's...


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## the GOAT (Apr 30, 2015)

Just trade it on a ms362cm. Awesome!!!


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## redbull660 (Apr 30, 2015)

the GOAT said:


> Just trade it on a ms362cm. Awesome!!!




IMO - 461R with 28" light will do almost anything u need it to small or BIG. 362 is half the saw a 461 is power wise and it saves you only 1.7lbs whoopie. 362 only good up to 20". 461 with 28" not as much bending over or reaching.

And I would bet money that if we put a blind fold on ya. and put a 461R with 28" light in your hands and then a 362R 20" std bar. You would like the 461 setup better.


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## sunfish (Apr 30, 2015)

Locust Cutter said:


> But Don... I'd have to trade you 2x MS's...


That would be cool Bryan... Two MS's might make me a better person an stuff...


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## the GOAT (Apr 30, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> IMO - 461R with 28" light will do almost anything u need it to small or BIG. 362 is half the saw a 461 is power wise and it saves you only 1.7lbs whoopie. 362 only good up to 20". 461 with 28" not as much bending over or reaching.
> 
> And I would bet money that if we put a blind fold on ya. and put a 461R with 28" light in your hands and then a 362R 20" std bar. You would like the 461 setup better.



Inability to detect sarcasm may be an early sign of dementia


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## funky sawman (Apr 30, 2015)

I ran a 362cm yesterday with a 28 light bar, it did great, gotta remember that where im at the forest is 99.9 percent softwood, heck I ran my 562 with a 30" for a full year logging. The trees are only getting smaller round here and my back is getting older. the 461 to me feels about the same weight as the 661. once you get over 14 pound powerhead any saw just feels heavy.


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 30, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> IMO - 461R with 28" light will do almost anything u need it to small or BIG. 362 is half the saw a 461 is power wise and it saves you only 1.7lbs whoopie. 362 only good up to 20". 461 with 28" not as much bending over or reaching.
> 
> And I would bet money that if we put a blind fold on ya. and put a 461R with 28" light in your hands and then a 362R 20" std bar. You would like the 461 setup better.


Don't argue with the GOAT ,because the 362 is AWESOME


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 30, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> 361 is better!


361 may be better ,but it is still not AWESOME like the 362 !!


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## maulhead (Apr 30, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> IMO - 461R with 28" light will do almost anything u need it to small or BIG. 362 is half the saw a 461 is power wise and it saves you only 1.7lbs whoopie. 362 only good up to 20". 461 with 28" not as much bending over or reaching.
> 
> And I would *bet money* that if we put a blind fold on ya. and put a 461R with 28" light in your hands and then a 362R 20" std bar. You would like the 461 setup better.



I dont know if I would want you, hedging bets for me  remember last week your 661 running 50;1 was going to beat my ported 661 running 32:1,,,, LOL  just saying... I dont think I would want you betting my money


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## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 30, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Don't argue with the GOAT ,because the 362 is AWESOME



It automatically puts you in the highly skilled bracket on stihls website..or so ive heard...faster than a unicorn for sure.


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## the GOAT (Apr 30, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Don't argue with the GOAT ,because the 362 is AWESOME





SAWMIKAZE said:


> It automatically puts you in the highly skilled bracket on stihls website..or so ive heard...faster than a unicorn for sure.



I know it, now you know it.


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## MustangMike (Apr 30, 2015)

You guys must be really bored, the dead horse beating just never stops.

Ryan, Got to run a 661 at GTG, very, very nice, smooth and powerful. But, those Smittybilt 064 and 660s will spank it!


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## funky sawman (Apr 30, 2015)

Well I have to say Im getting really tired of getting the run around and getting yelled at by the tech at the dealership. I called stihl rep northwest and told him my problem, then he told the mechanic that I called him, then all hell broke loose. Never been treated so rude in my entire life. I asked if I could get a new saw cause you cant figure this one out, he said "not a chance in hell". He then told me he ordered a new intake boot that isn't on any production saws yet. It has been reported that the fuel is puddling in the intake.
Anyways the whole situation is screwed and will never ever buy anything from this dealer again. ohh then the stihl rep said that the dealer should have the diagnostic tool, but the tech told me it wont do any good without a wind tunnel to run the saw in WTF


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## funky sawman (Apr 30, 2015)

now I have to wait another week for the new intake boot to come in. The next nearest dealer cant even look at the saw for 2 weeks cause they are behind, WTF happened to taking care of the pro guys?


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## maulhead (Apr 30, 2015)

Sorry to hear of the problems your having. my 661 has been flawless! 

I kind of got lost in your post, did the rep, or was it the tech that treated you rude, and said not a chance in hell?


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## funky sawman (Apr 30, 2015)

It was the stihl tech at the dealership. The rep was a real nice guy


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## maulhead (Apr 30, 2015)

that is eniff to piss a guy off! Did you ask the tech about a buy back deal? Or better dealer to take it to?


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## funky sawman (Apr 30, 2015)

I asked the tech about the buyback. The rep I asked about a different dealer with the diagnostic software


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## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 30, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> You guys must be really bored, the dead horse beating just never stops.
> 
> Ryan, Got to run a 661 at GTG, very, very nice, smooth and powerful. But, those Smittybilt 064 and 660s will spank it!



Awesome.


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## funky sawman (Apr 30, 2015)

I get were the tech is coping up an attitude, as I myself have been a Husqvarna tech, and I have been yelled at by the area rep for not getting customers projects that where under warranty fixed in a timely manner. But did I get an attitude with the customer???? NEVER did I treat a customer like that.


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## funky sawman (Apr 30, 2015)

This intake boot thing is getting interesting.... first the standard booty then the booty with donuts and now a whole new booty. Mabie that's what I need for my worn out body is a new booty


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## maulhead (Apr 30, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> This intake boot thing is getting interesting.... first the standard booty then the booty with donuts and now a whole new booty. Mabie that's what I need for my worn out body is a new booty



get pics of the new booty, for us please. 

and NO not your booty


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## funky sawman (Apr 30, 2015)

The booty with donuts will for sure have to go on a diet haaaa


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## MustangMike (Apr 30, 2015)

Ask for a loaner saw till they get it fixed, if not a 661 a 461 will do!


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## funky sawman (May 1, 2015)

they have no loaners


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## AKDoug (May 1, 2015)

J.D. at Stihl NW is a great guy. It's inexcusable that your dealer tech treated you poorly.


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## coltont (May 1, 2015)

I had the solenoid replaced on mine. It just plain wouldn't get any spark. My dealer took it off a saw on the shelf. Had it plugged into the software re calibrated and threw an 8 tooth on it and it's a whole new animal. That was about 60 tanks ago. Runs like it's got a fire under its ass.


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## Deets066 (May 1, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> they have no loaners


Your dealer Sucks!........ But you already know that


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## CR888 (May 1, 2015)

Sucks that the op has not been treated well, after all what separates an online internet sale compared to a walk in shop purchase is the fact your buying from a servicing dealer that should be able to keep you going so long as your saw is under warranty. The op has a fairly solid case, keep the pressure on and don't be deterred by their rudeness.


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## MustangMike (May 1, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> they have no loaners



I would complain to the Stihl rep that U R a professional and you do not have use of a tool that U purchased. I'll bet he can arrange for a loaner for you (request it). Best of Luck!


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## pro94lt (May 1, 2015)

Have you talked to the owner? Not the tech?


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## funky sawman (May 1, 2015)

I have not yet talked to the owner


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## Spectre468 (May 2, 2015)

I sure hope this works out well for you, and quickly.


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## funky sawman (May 2, 2015)

I talked to another dealer today and he is puzzled about another intake boot. he said that they already put the new style boot on production saws made after july 2014. So now I feel like Im really getting the runaround now, time to bang my head into the wall


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## rmh3481 (May 2, 2015)

Your battle looks to have become old school vs new. 

Your servicing dealer has stated that he had no modern equipment to check the operation of the fuel, ignition or emission equipment. So he runs a case pressure test and as long as it passes that is all he can do. Maybe he can check the fuel solenoid with an ohm meter if there is a test for it. Same with the ignition module. 

This is the same thing Husky customers went through with the early auto tune systems. ALot of the dealers would not stock or sell the AT units or purchase the diagnostic equipment/send their guys for training. When one came in for service they did what they could, but didnt have the ability to do much more than swap out parts. I believe Husky set up centers that you could mail an AT unit to for service, maybe Stihl will do the same? Until you find a modern dealer who can service the newer product your between a rock and a hard place. Maybe send it back to Virginia Beach?


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## Deets066 (May 2, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> I talked to another dealer today and he is puzzled about another intake boot. he said that they already put the new style boot on production saws made after july 2014. So now I feel like Im really getting the runaround now, time to bang my head into the wall


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## MustangMike (May 2, 2015)

I think I would complain to the Stihl Rep again, and see if he can do anything. Tell him you paid for it, you need it, and working properly.

I would also tell him that you are on a chainsaw website, and the people from around the world know what is going on here! Tell him they should do more to protect their reputation.


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## Deets066 (May 3, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> J Lo booty is next?


That might be considered a worn out booty also


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## treesmith (May 3, 2015)

Overported


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## Locust Cutter (May 3, 2015)

Definitely a shelf queen...


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## the GOAT (May 3, 2015)




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## funky sawman (May 3, 2015)

Definitely some puddling going on there lol


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## funky sawman (May 3, 2015)

Hummm should have bought an echo i guess. In all honesty i really like the feel of the 661, gobs of power but what does any of this do if the saw is sitting in the shop all the time. If the new intake doesnt work i will call stihl northwest again and never return to my local dealer for not even free stihl candy.


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## Cope1024 (May 3, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Hummm should have bought an echo i guess. In all honesty i really like the feel of the 661, gobs of power but what does any of this do if the saw is sitting in the shop all the time. If the new intake doesnt work i will call stihl northwest again and never return to my local dealer for not even free stihl candy.


You made a good choice, just got a bad apple. Once the issue is resolved you'll be a happy camper.


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## Moparmyway (May 4, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Hummm should have bought an echo i guess. In all honesty i really like the feel of the 661, gobs of power but what does any of this do if the saw is sitting in the shop all the time. If the new intake doesnt work i will call stihl northwest again and never return to my local dealer for not even free stihl candy.


I forgot if you said or not, but what oil ratio are you using in the 661 ?


**EDIT**
I see ............ 45:1 Stihl Ultra


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## the GOAT (May 4, 2015)

Cope1024 said:


> You made a good choice, just got a bad apple..




-or-

All 661's are prone to have the same issue. Which is why stihl has decided to update the intake booty.


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## funky sawman (May 4, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> I forgot if you said or not, but what oil ratio are you using in the 661 ?
> 
> 
> **EDIT**
> I see ............ 45:1 Stihl Ultra


yes 45:1 ratio. but the last day I ran it using stihl can premix fuel to rule out any possible fuel quality problems. That same day it was very hard to start after the saw sat in direct sunlight for several hrs, something like 30 pulls to get it running. I still think its a carb problem


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## MustangMike (May 4, 2015)

Not sure what "mode" you were in, but on warm days, after the initial start, I always just start my 362 C in the "Run" position, I don't use "Start". I can leave it sit for an hour and it will still start in one or two pulls in the Run setting. If it does not start by the second pull, then I'll go to "Start" position. I believe this contradicts some of the Stihl literature.


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## funky sawman (May 4, 2015)

well the 661 would start but instantly die. sounded like it was running out of fuel. It did this start and die thing for like 30 times then it stayed running with the choke on. it took quite a while before I could touch the trigger otherwise it would die if I tried throttling up


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## MustangMike (May 4, 2015)

Something ain't right! Hope they resolve it soon, those are nice saws.


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## funky sawman (May 6, 2015)

Still waiting on the intake boot, I was told today that it is being dropped shipped from the factory and going right to the mechanic, its not even getting checked in like the rest of parts inventory is.


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## MustangMike (May 7, 2015)

I hope it solves your problem, but I'm skeptical. If it does not solve the problem, I would demand a replacement, they have played long enough.


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## redbull660 (May 7, 2015)

at this point, I'd be calling that stihl rep daily. This is absurd.


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## blsnelling (May 7, 2015)

New coil and or carb.


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## funky sawman (May 7, 2015)

I bought a new 088 stihl from the same dealer back in 2002 that would not run right no matter what was done to it, new carb, coil, seals, tank vent, finally they just gave me another saw. That saw was sent back to the stihl and they found excess casting flash in the intake and transfers causing the fuel to puddle up.


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## dwraisor (May 7, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> I bought a new 088 stihl from the same dealer back in 2002 that would not run right no matter what was done to it, new carb, coil, seals, tank vent, finally they just gave me another saw. That saw was sent back to the stihl and they found excess casting flash in the intake and transfers causing the fuel to puddle up.




Things like that happen, it is a manufacturing process, and there are allowable defect amounts... Every tree produces a few bad apples, it is how they stand behind it that matters.... and looks like on the 088 they did you right. 

They need to step up on the 661. With the lackluster start it had in the states, release recalled release then taking forever to hit shelves, they need to ensure they have no one spreading the bad juju vibes.


dw


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## funky sawman (May 8, 2015)

New intake boot installed but still has bog WTF WTF, Im done with this crap


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## Cope1024 (May 8, 2015)

Time to escalate higher up with Stihl.


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## funky sawman (May 8, 2015)

The dealer that the saw is at doesn't even have a test log, so how can he correctly diagnose the saw


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## nitehawk55 (May 8, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> The dealer that the saw is at doesn't even have a test log, so how can he correctly diagnose the saw



As someone else said this dealer is old school and shouldn't even be selling M-tronic saws or trying to repair them under warranty . Find a good dealer that knows what they are doing and have the proper testing equipment .


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## Chris-PA (May 8, 2015)

There's a difference between someone who understands how to diagnose a piece of equipment and a parts changer who's just guessing.


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## Spectre468 (May 9, 2015)

I'd demand a new saw.


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## hseII (May 9, 2015)

I would already have been on another machine were this my saw.

1. Your Dealer is not taking care of their Customer.
2. Professional Techs don't conduct themselves in such a manner.

Stihl has no choice but to correct this: enough is enough. 

It's time for them to step up and give you a new saw.


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## catbuster (May 9, 2015)

Yeah, that's BS. You're a professional and you more than likely do a ton of business with them, not a once a year type deal for a hundred bucks, but you probably spent several thousand dollars there. The least they can do is get on the phone with Stihl HQ and see what they can do, and from my dealings with Stihl they pretty much always take care of their customer.


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## hseII (May 9, 2015)

Let me put this way, I've never had to call Stihl because I couldn't get thru an issue with my Dealer.


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## treesmith (May 9, 2015)

Needs to be fixed, replaced or refunded


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## hseII (May 9, 2015)

treesmith said:


> Needs to be fixed, replaced or refunded


It's too new in my mind to need to be "fixed".

3 times is enough with a vehicle: he didn't do it and it's under warranty.


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## treesmith (May 9, 2015)

Fair point


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## hseII (May 9, 2015)

treesmith said:


> Fair point


I still want to get muh grimy paws on a 661xB.

If the stock 661 is so far ahead of the stock 660, and the 661xb is so much more than my Monkeyed with 660, a 661 must be on the cusp of becoming legendary. 

Cause my MMMS660 is a bad motha ******!!


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## treesmith (May 9, 2015)

Best saw ever, I'm running 25" 36RM with depth gauges set to softwood, it cut like crazy, then a groundie sharpened it and dropped the depth gauges further and it still cuts like crazy, a little grabby but it just digs deep and pulls through and slings chips, and remember this is in aussie hardwood, green but solid, I love it, you'd love it!


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## treesmith (May 9, 2015)

Between a 660xb, 390xb and 661xb I know which one I'd keep. The balance, weight and power is just harmony


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## stihlaficionado (May 9, 2015)

hseII said:


> I still want to get muh grimy paws on a 661xB.
> 
> If the stock 661 is so far ahead of the stock 660, and the 661xb is so much more than my Monkeyed with 660, a 661 must be on the cusp of becoming legendary.
> 
> Cause my MMMS660 is a bad motha ******!!




XB ?


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## treesmith (May 9, 2015)

Xtra Bananas from the Monkeymind of TN


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## Chris-PA (May 9, 2015)

stihlaficionado said:


> XB ?


Xtra Bog


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## .404 (May 9, 2015)

Chris-PA said:


> 愚蠢的失敗者



OK???


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## funky sawman (May 10, 2015)

I took the saw back to the dealer AGAIN...... I said give me a good running new saw with a more proven platform. The tech suggested the ms362. So the saw that I got was a ms362RCM 24" as a loaner/ demo saw until they figure out the problem with the 661. I ran the 362 all day today and all is well with it, amazing to have a saw other than my 241cm that doesn't bog. Another local report came in that a customer has a hesitation complaint with the 661 but doesn't want to return the saw, he just wants to run it as is..


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## funky sawman (May 10, 2015)

Hmmmmmm, Maybe a fuel program problem, or just the carb issue like the Husqvarna 562 and its infamous multiple carbs to fix an issue


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## funky sawman (May 10, 2015)

The new intake booty they installed was indeed different than any I've seen, totally smooth inside and no bellow, no donuts.


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## the GOAT (May 10, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> I took the saw back to the dealer AGAIN...... I said give me a good running new saw with a more proven platform. The tech suggested the ms362.


Awesome, but they were out of 461's?


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## redoakman (May 10, 2015)

There has been some reports up here and Canada that the wiring from the carb to the coil is all messed up and throwing all the fireing time off . my dealer said new carb and coil solved the issue .


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## funky sawman (May 10, 2015)

I don't have time to be a test mule with unknowen saws. Ive never run a 461 and don't intend to because it don't have spring antivibe. Ive run a few 362's and they seem to be a good saw, and almost no vibration, something that I am very sensitive to.


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## MustangMike (May 10, 2015)

The 362 is very smooth, and has good power for it's size, but is just a long way away from being a 661. Enjoy the 362, I really like mine, but it is my small saw. Hope they figure out (or replace) your 661. A shame they are having problems even after the recall, and I'm also disappointed that they have not done more to resolve it on a timely basis.

I presume the 441 C was also not available. I have heard there is a production problem.


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## Deets066 (May 10, 2015)

Hope all turns out well with your 661, I've been reading along throughout this whole thread. It's starting to irritate me that they can't figure your saw out


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## CR888 (May 11, 2015)

treesmith said:


> Between a 660xb, 390xb and 661xb I know which one I'd keep. The balance, weight and power is just harmony


Stop saying stuff like this....its costly...it's hard to deny, the 661 ticks all the boxes!


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## treesmith (May 11, 2015)

CR888 said:


> Stop saying stuff like this....its costly...it's hard to deny, the 661 ticks all the boxes!


Yeah, it really does.
Talk to Randy, he'll fix you up with a hell of a saw and cheaper than you can buy a stock one here


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## dwraisor (May 11, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> 441 then! heh



Kinda my thoughts. 441 is much closer to the 661 than a 362. The mtronic 441 has been around longer as well i believe. 

dw


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## funky sawman (May 11, 2015)

Well today not so much luck. the new 362 has a rich bog when blipping the trigger and dies randomly. Can a guy get a new saw anymore that runs right?? Its really noticeable when feathering the throttle while trimming the holding wood felling trees. blip it 3 times real quick then hit the throttle hard and she stumbles and throws out a bunch of smoke..... Seems like the opposite problem that the 661 had, it was too lean of accelerator pump and the 362 is pumping too much. Definatly a carb problem


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## funky sawman (May 11, 2015)

Ohh and why in gods green earth does stihl put an accelerator pump in their carbs??


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## redoakman (May 11, 2015)

Funky sounds like saws don't like ya .  . time to retire yet lol.


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## funky sawman (May 11, 2015)

well my 241cm is still flawless, except the bar that I already wore out. What is the standard compression of a 362cm??? the one I got is at 140# with about 1 gallon of fuel. That seems low to me for a stihl. That 661 out of the box had 175# and my 241cm when it was new had 160# now its got 165#


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## MustangMike (May 12, 2015)

Almost sounds like to try to get them to F U???

Don't know what compression my 362 had or has, but it runs flawlessly for me (it did need a reset once). It is my favorite saw for anything 16" or less. Very smooth, very fast.


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## Deets066 (May 12, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Well today not so much luck. the new 362 has a rich bog when blipping the trigger and dies randomly. Can a guy get a new saw anymore that runs right?? Its really noticeable when feathering the throttle while trimming the holding wood felling trees. blip it 3 times real quick then hit the throttle hard and she stumbles and throws out a bunch of smoke..... Seems like the opposite problem that the 661 had, it was too lean of accelerator pump and the 362 is pumping too much. Definatly a carb problem


This is reinforcement why I like the older stihls.


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## nitehawk55 (May 12, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Well today not so much luck. the new 362 has a rich bog when blipping the trigger and dies randomly. Can a guy get a new saw anymore that runs right?? Its really noticeable when feathering the throttle while trimming the holding wood felling trees. blip it 3 times real quick then hit the throttle hard and she stumbles and throws out a bunch of smoke..... Seems like the opposite problem that the 661 had, it was too lean of accelerator pump and the 362 is pumping too much. Definatly a carb problem




Why the need to "blip" the throttle ? Perhaps you are messing up the M-tronic setting doing that .


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## Moparmyway (May 12, 2015)

Blipping can be usefull ................ after a long cut, its easy to get some needed oil to the chain quickly by blipping 

Blipping is also usefull if you have close neighbors and you really want to annoy them


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## Chris-PA (May 12, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Ohh and why in gods green earth does stihl put an accelerator pump in their carbs??


Extra fuel is required for acceleration - either you set the idle and idle transition rich all the time or you provide the extra fuel with a pump and set the mixture correct.


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## Moparmyway (May 12, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Here we go with an update today. I was doing a thinning and pruning job today and I needed the longer length of the 32" 661 to reach some large grand fir limbs. When the saw is running full throttle while the bar is pointed to the sky it runs really rich, four stroken like crazy, then when bar is horizontal it revs a lot higher. Still sounds like a carb issue to me.


Mine does not bog when the bar is vertical, it just has a very slight hesitation when throttle blipping after the second or third blip when coming off of a cut.

After the muffler mod and air filter was added to mine, it stumbled (4 stroking) in the cut alot, then it cleared up by the end of the second tank.

Also, I am running a MaxFlow air filter with my muffler mod, so the slight bog could be due to the modifications


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## MustangMike (May 12, 2015)

My 362 has been flawless since I did the re set procedure. I would not hesitate to get another M-Tronic saw, and it gives me piece of mind to know that it will adjust for changing conditions on it's own.


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## Trx250r180 (May 12, 2015)

A saw should be able to have crisp throttle response limbing and bucking ,a bog is bs ,my 461 was a pain in the a$$ to limb with when i got it ,kept bouncing off the rev limiter limbing ,the 460 coil fixed that saw though ,seems like over the years you have had bad luck with saws ,mostly auto tunes by the looks of it ,am sure you are not the only one out there though ,the others are just not speaking up about it .


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## SAWMIKAZE (May 12, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> A saw should be able to have crisp throttle response limbing and bucking ,a bog is bs ,my 461 was a pain in the a$$ to limb with when i got it ,kept bouncing off the rev limiter limbing ,the 460 coil fixed that saw though ,seems like over the years you have had bad luck with saws ,mostly auto tunes by the looks of it ,am sure you are not the only one out there though ,the others are just not speaking up about it .



Spoken , .. my 362 needs a coil 

But i get it thursday..so no big deal.


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## the GOAT (May 12, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> A saw should be able to have crisp throttle response limbing and bucking ,a bog is bs ,my 461 was a pain in the a$$ to limb with when i got it ,kept bouncing off the rev limiter limbing ,the 460 coil fixed that saw though ,seems like over the years you have had bad luck with saws ,mostly auto tunes by the looks of it ,am sure you are not the only one out there though ,the others are just not speaking up about it .


Blasphemy, the ms362cm is awesome!!!!


SAWMIKAZE said:


> Spoken , .. my 362 needs a coil
> 
> But i get it thursday..so no big deal.



Ignored.


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## funky sawman (May 12, 2015)

Blasphemy........ you shall stone me......off with his head


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## funky sawman (May 13, 2015)

So the stihl rep got my 661 and is taking it to a timberfest somewere in the northwest to test it with other 661's. Wish I could be there


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## funky sawman (May 13, 2015)

and the 362is back at the shop. I checked the spark plug and it was BLACK


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## catbuster (May 13, 2015)

Holy ****. Are you kidding? Is that saw M-Tronic too? It may be that you're not breaking the saw in and allowing the carburetor to calibrate itself properly. Limbing is not a good way to calibrate it.


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## coltont (May 13, 2015)

I took my 661 to work for its first day and ran it like I do any of my other saws and it did great and still does. No fancy break in procedure.


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## MustangMike (May 13, 2015)

You are not having good luck there Funky, I hope they can resolve your issues.


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## coltont (May 13, 2015)

That was in January and it's probably got 100 gallons easy through it by now. It's a hammer. You can lean on it more than a 660.


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## funky sawman (May 13, 2015)

Does any one on here know about an upcoming logging show in Washington??? The stihl rep is taking my saw there, I would really like to go and try another 661 to see if its just mine acting up or what


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## funky sawman (May 13, 2015)

catbuster said:


> Holy ****. Are you kidding? Is that saw M-Tronic too? It may be that you're not breaking the saw in and allowing the carburetor to calibrate itself properly. Limbing is not a good way to calibrate it.


Well the 241cm was perfect out of the box. Yes I do know how to recalibrate the saw, tried that many times


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## funky sawman (May 13, 2015)

I sure wish that I had something to record these saws so others can see and hear on video what I mean. Then you could see me throw a brush fit also LOL


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## _RJ_ (May 13, 2015)

I've been watching this thread from the start. Damn man, I feel for ya. Normally this is the type of stuff that happens to me. Hopefully it gets resolved soon.


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## Cedarkerf (May 13, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Does any one on here know about an upcoming logging show in Washington??? The stihl rep is taking my saw there, I would really like to go and try another 661 to see if its just mine acting up or what


I think Deming is co.ing up next it's up by Bellingham


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## _RJ_ (May 14, 2015)

Did you happen to watch my video of my new 261C? After the cut I blip the throttle. Is that about when your saw bogs?


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## Big_Wood (May 14, 2015)

i don't know what the heck it is about this thread. i sense i'm hearing the truth but not the whole truth for some reason. also, how do you go without your main saw for so long. here, if a professional is needed and don't have a good running saw he is getting a good running saw somehow. simple as that. i sense you are not really a professional but then again, i may just be being an angry judgmental prick LOL i don't know about anyone else but every pro running stihl i know owns 2-3 661's at this point. no professional depends on just one saw.


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## funky sawman (May 14, 2015)

I am my own boss, and without my saw, im without work, that's why im too broke to buy another backup saw


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## funky sawman (May 14, 2015)

And when I got injured felling timber back in oct of 2013 I had to sell all my saws to stay alive, but I really shouldn't have to waist my time telling you that


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## Trx250r180 (May 14, 2015)

westcoaster90 said:


> i don't know what the heck it is about this thread. i sense i'm hearing the truth but not the whole truth for some reason. also, how do you go without your main saw for so long. here, if a professional is needed and don't have a good running saw he is getting a good running saw somehow. simple as that. i sense you are not really a professional but then again, i may just be being an angry judgmental prick LOL i don't know about anyone else but every pro running stihl i know owns 2-3 661's at this point. no professional depends on just one saw.


I know many timber fallers that only have one saw ,what is your point ? because they don't have many they can not do their job ?


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## Big_Wood (May 14, 2015)

I really am a prick. Was in the whiskey last night hence the late post LOL. I can be nice. Forgive my funky saw man. Funky saw man and I have had good conversations many times before. Was just getting riled up and stirring the ****. Didn't even realize it was him til this morning. Not used to that avatar LOL


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## Big_Wood (May 14, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> I know many timber fallers that only have one saw ,what is your point ? because they don't have many they can not do their job ?



States must be different then here. Here you have 2 at least or you ain't looked at seriously enough for an employer to consider you. A dead saw means waiting on the hill all day while your partner finishes up which is why every faller has a spare at the heli pad. There are actual guys where your from that go up the hill with one saw?


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## MustangMike (May 14, 2015)

I'm glad U said it!!!


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## Trx250r180 (May 14, 2015)

westcoaster90 said:


> States must be different then here. Here you have 2 at least or you ain't looked at seriously enough for an employer to consider you. A dead saw means waiting on the hill all day while your partner finishes up which is why every faller has a spare at the heli pad. There are actual guys where your from that go up the hill with one saw?


Yes ,many actually ,but guys some have 2 ,we are not as uptight as the guys in your area ,do not need all that bc type training to get a job either . Maybe with huskies it would be smart to have a backup ,the guys down here run stihls though


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## Big_Wood (May 14, 2015)

Had to like your post just because of you ability to throw a brand stab in there LOL. For the record though. Stihl guys have 2 saws as well up here. I do wish they weren't as strict with the certification here. I believe it's a money grab. The fallers who can't afford the $30,000 certification are the ones that will school the guys that can. We do get paid a lot more to do the same job here though.


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## Big_Wood (May 14, 2015)

You know those Stihl guys to aye. Man o man it never ends. One of the wife's relatives bought 2 new 661's. His boss puts him and his partner in tight right of way and his partner drops a 100' balsam on him with his 660. he lived though.


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## Trx250r180 (May 14, 2015)

westcoaster90 said:


> Had to like your post just because of you ability to throw a brand stab in there LOL. For the record though. Stihl guys have 2 saws as well up here. I do wish they weren't as strict with the certification here. I believe it's a money grab. The fallers who can't afford the $30,000 certification are the ones that will school the guys that can. We do get paid a lot more to do the same job here though.


Here gives them a reason to go home early i guess ,if i was out there ,i would bring 2 saws personally


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## _RJ_ (May 14, 2015)

Let's try to not derail any further. Whether he has one saw or a hundred is irrelevant. It's an interesting issue that other members have noticed too with their M-Tronic saws after the OP started this thread


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## Big_Wood (May 14, 2015)

it would be sweet to see the final outcome of this just to know but somehow i feel like you will just eventually end up with a new saw. out of all the 661's i know of not one as far as i know is having these issues. there is alot of controversy though. some fallers don't want nothing to do with the 661 and have been searching dealers for NOS 660's


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## MustangMike (May 14, 2015)

Old habits are tough to break. I remember when I would not buy a car w/FI. Now, I would not want to buy one w/o it.


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## hseII (May 14, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Yes ,many actually ,but guys some have 2 ,we are not as uptight as the guys in your area ,do not need all that bc type training to get a job either . Maybe with huskies it would be smart to have a backup ,the guys down here run stihls though


QTLA

Quotes FO TROOF for you Canukastanians


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## hseII (May 14, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Old habits are tough to break. I remember when I would not buy a car w/FI. Now, I would not want to buy one w/o it.


If only Stihl sold the Regular 661.... [emoji17][emoji17][emoji17]


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## Trx250r180 (May 14, 2015)

hseII said:


> QTLA
> 
> Quotes FO TROOF for you Canukastanians


Where is muh string trimmah mista


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## hseII (May 14, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Where is muh string trimmah mista


"Yours" is at yo house.

Muh String Trimma is in the connex in Lowell.... And LomgArms ain't "Porting" no 4 mix, so I will have to find other technology.... [emoji13][emoji13][emoji13][emoji13]


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## Trx250r180 (May 14, 2015)

hseII said:


> "Yours" is at yo house.
> 
> Muh String Trimma is in the connex in Lowell.... And LomgArms ain't "Porting" no 4 mix, so I will have to find other technology.... [emoji13][emoji13][emoji13][emoji13]


I gots the old type fs80 2 stoke ,no mixer


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## hseII (May 14, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> I gots the old type fs80 2 stoke ,no mixer


Everybody talks Chit about muh FS130 handlebar, but it hasn't skipped a beat so far, in 3 years of clearing, weed eating, saw blade or heavy string. 

I've been very satisfied with it: if I wasn't, I wouldn't own it.


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## Trx250r180 (May 14, 2015)

131 pole saw is on muh list next i think ,can't choke down an echo yet


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## Locust Cutter (May 14, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Yes ,many actually ,but guys some have 2 ,we are not as uptight as the guys in your area ,do not need all that bc type training to get a job either . Maybe with huskies it would be smart to have a backup ,*the guys down here run stihls though*


At east one of 'em ain't a runner right now... Sorry I couldn't resist.I could lend a 562 or a Dolmar 9010 though... Alright I'm done I promise. I actually love cream-sickles too. I understand being your own boss and being broke but I'd still want a similar sized backup, even if it was long-in-tooth just to cover my rear. Hell I don't got firewooding without 2-3 saws or more sometimes.


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## funky sawman (May 14, 2015)

Well couldn't take not having a big saw no longer, I borrowed my GOOD buddys Husqvarna 2100cd. time to go to work


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## funky sawman (May 14, 2015)

When I was working for guys felling, I normally would pack 4 saws with me. Always one new one in the toolbox and a backup then 2 main saws one for large timber and a smaller saw like 044 for all around stuff. I support my family on one income and have not made the best choices in life is how I ended up were I am now. The wife just graduated college last week and already landed a job, so now all the pressure isn't on me, its been a tough 5 years


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## Locust Cutter (May 14, 2015)

That's awesome Man! I wasn't trying to rib you. I know what it's like to be flat broke...


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## funky sawman (May 14, 2015)

I tend to overreact to small stuff. No big deal guys thanks for keeping this thread alive, and hopefully something comes of it.


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## Locust Cutter (May 14, 2015)

Put it this way if it don't Stihl will do a lt more damage to it's rep on here than likely anywhere else outside of the T.S. series... I still want to try a 661 badly. None of my dealers have one nor do any of them have a scan tool (to the best of my knowledge)... We'll see.


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## hseII (May 14, 2015)

Locust Cutter said:


> Put it this way if it don't Stihl will do a lt more damage to it's rep on here than likely anywhere else outside of the T.S. series... I still want to try a 661 badly. None of my dealers have one nor do any of them have a scan tool (to the best of my knowledge)... We'll see.


Same Here.


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## MustangMike (May 14, 2015)

I can't believe they don't give you a working back up saw, that sucks!


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## Spectre468 (May 15, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> I can't believe they don't give you a working back up saw, that sucks!



Sucks? More like BS! WTF!?! I can't believe that he is getting such horrible support from his dealer. I know I would not be left out in the cold like that by mine, and I'm not a pro whose livelihood depends upon it. This is horsechit! Time for a new dealer...


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## Big_Wood (May 15, 2015)

Locust Cutter said:


> Put it this way if it don't Stihl will do a lt more damage to it's rep on here than likely anywhere else outside of the T.S. series... I still want to try a 661 badly. None of my dealers have one nor do any of them have a scan tool (to the best of my knowledge)... We'll see.



i've ran a few 661's now. they got the same handle orientation as the 660 and the same nose dive with longer bars although it feels like not as bad but that might be because the ones i ran had a light bar on them. no thank you!


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## funky sawman (May 15, 2015)

You saying that the front handle needs to be moved forward to balance the saw better with longer bars?


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## sunfish (May 16, 2015)

Maybe ya need to forget Stihl / Husqv & get an Echo???


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## stihlaficionado (May 16, 2015)

sunfish said:


> Maybe ya need to forget Stihl / Husqv & get a [McCulloch Timber Bear]???


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## MustangMike (May 16, 2015)

I think when he gets a good running 661 in his hands, he will be very happy with it.


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## pro94lt (May 16, 2015)

sunfish said:


> Maybe ya need to forget Stihl / Husqv & get an Echo???


He needs a cs8000


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## hseII (May 16, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> I think when he gets a good running 661 in his hands, he will be very happy with it.


Sad part is, this has been going on for more than a day or 2: unacceptable.


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## dwraisor (May 16, 2015)

westcoaster90 said:


> it would be sweet to see the final outcome of this just to know but somehow i feel like you will just eventually end up with a new saw. out of all the 661's i know of not one as far as i know is having these issues. there is alot of controversy though. s*ome fallers don't want nothing to do with the 661 and have been searching dealers for NOS 660's*





MustangMike said:


> *Old habits are tough to break.* I remember when I would not buy a car w/FI. Now, I would not want to buy one w/o it.



I am hoping so.... I have a very mint 660 that is going on the chopping block soon... I been wantign a 661, not that I need it, but finally picked one up. So soon as I get back off this trip, the 660 goes on the interwebz for sale and stuff.


dw


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## MustangMike (May 16, 2015)

Let us know how your 661 does.


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## funky sawman (May 16, 2015)

Yea sunfish, time to try echo...... I just found a mint shindaiwa 757 if only I had some extra funds laying around.....If huckleberrys were in season I could make an easy 5 big bills..


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## Locust Cutter (May 16, 2015)

I did notice that with the same 36" x 0.063x3/8" Stihl bar on my 9010, it's nt nearly as nose heavy as my 660 was. It wasn't horrible, but the 9010 balances it better. The 395xp is the same way FWIW.


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## Big_Wood (May 16, 2015)

Locust Cutter said:


> I did notice that with the same 36" x 0.063x3/8" Stihl bar on my 9010, it's nt nearly as nose heavy as my 660 was. It wasn't horrible, but the 9010 balances it better. The 395xp is the same way FWIW.



the 044-660 stihls were very bad for the nose dive thing. one of the reasons i don't like them. seems to contribute more to the physical stress on the body throughout the day.


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## funky sawman (May 16, 2015)

then put a 32 inch on an 084 then no more nose dive


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## funky sawman (May 16, 2015)

along with the 562 I had, Hopefully I wont have to place the 661 and 362 in the BOG hall of fame


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## funky sawman (May 16, 2015)

The 2100cd I borrowed had a bog also, BUT I was able to correct it in about 5 seconds with a small turn of a orange handled screwdriver....ohhhhh nooooo, better watch out for those epa green weenies now


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## Big_Wood (May 16, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> then put a 32 inch on an 084 then no more nose dive



why would a do that when i can just run a sweet orange saw


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## funky sawman (May 16, 2015)

The bad part about these auto carb tuning saws is that I don't pack an adjusting screwdriver with me any longer, it took a while to find the trusty orange handled tool.


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## funky sawman (May 16, 2015)

westcoaster90 said:


> why would a do that when i can just run a sweet orange saw


What, we talking 3120 here or what LOL


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## Big_Wood (May 16, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> What, we talking 3120 here or what LOL



heck no. i hate the 3120 POS LOL. 3120 is only good for 2 things. milling and making a guy who feels tough with the biggest saw's ego swell. i like a 390 myself.


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## funky sawman (May 16, 2015)

390 is pretty good saw... as long as its got the tilly carb, Im not a fan of wally carbs that the newer ones used


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## Big_Wood (May 16, 2015)

i like both carbs. the 390's run pretty well the same with either and they both last the life of the saw. no reason for me to hate either.


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## mdavlee (May 16, 2015)

westcoaster90 said:


> heck no. i hate the 3120 POS LOL. 3120 is only good for 2 things. milling and making a guy who feels tough with the biggest saw's ego swell. i like a 390 myself.


3120 makes your arms longer and back tired. They do make good race saws with 084 rods.


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## Big_Wood (May 16, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> 3120 makes your arms longer and back tired. They do make good race saws with 084 rods.



i know of a few piped alky ones turning 20k with a stock rod as well.


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## mdavlee (May 16, 2015)

westcoaster90 said:


> i know of a few piped alky ones turning 20k with a stock rod as well.


Simon Bertrand ?


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## Big_Wood (May 16, 2015)

Matt Mooney


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## Big_Wood (May 16, 2015)




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## bplust (May 16, 2015)

Shane, stock bore or over?


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## Big_Wood (May 16, 2015)

over . this is not the cylinder on the saw but the same thing. matt is one of my very good friends. he lives 20 mins away. builds these 3120's to smoke the built 084's at the stihl timbersports every year


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## bplust (May 17, 2015)

I asked because you mentioned stock 3120 cranks. I have a buddy who races 3120s and mentioned that the 084 rod is desirable once its bored over a certain amount. Just curious.


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## Big_Wood (May 17, 2015)

bplust said:


> I asked because you mentioned stock 3120 cranks. I have a buddy who races 3120s and mentioned that the 084 rod is desirable once its bored over a certain amount. Just curious.



it surely is desirable. for starters it's stronger, and it's just slightly longer. matt does have one with the 084 rod that someone back east put on the crank for him. i actually think he said it was Ed Heard IIRC. either way. he has 4 of them built like this. 1 with the 084 rod and the other 3 with 3120 rods. they all perform and they're old now. heck i think he built them 6-7 years ago and he just keeps on competing with them every year without any kind of a rebuild. the one i pictured was actually mine that we built together. i traded it back to him for a stock 3120 cause i had no use for the hotsaw. he told me they are closer to the cc of an 090 and uses a wiseco piston in them. they be real trippy to run. definitely not a work saw. he's got them setup with a 12 pin and 18" bar. anyways, we should try salvage this thread for funky saw man. wonder what the heck that dealer will do. i'd call corporate on their ass.


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## Locust Cutter (May 17, 2015)

Well Funky, I can speak for having a fixed 562 and it's a damn fine saw. I hope your luck improves with the 661. Any word from the dealer yet?


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## Locust Cutter (May 17, 2015)

I'd say at this time, go back and demand a new saw. There has to be some sort of "lemon" law in your state that would apply to this. If not suggest that you'll be happy to buy another and send him the invoice or take him to small claims. That ought to get his attention.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

The dealer told me no replacement saws 7 days after the purchase date, no exceptions.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

I still want to know why the m-tronic is causing the saw to race a little lean for a few seconds after a long cut. All the vids I have seen on the 661 have this symptom, and only the 661 and Brad Snellings new ms201tc did this from what I can hear. The 362cm and my 241 cm do not do this lean idle down EVER. Other than causing a possible bog of the bottom end I would venture to say that this short time of lean after a hard cut doesn't do the bearings and cylinder any good, and after 5000 times of making a cut and coming back to idle lean like that will cause extra unnecessary wear.


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## chris zautner (May 17, 2015)

that's ******** they should stand behind their product for at least a month


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

I assume that the stihl factory guys program the base line fuel settings everything should work great. But I am coming to the conclusion that the m-tronic on the 661 in particular is slow responding and cannot keep up with an itchy trigger finger


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## Locust Cutter (May 17, 2015)

No returns from changing your mind is one thing. No exchanges due to faulty equipment is absolute crap. Call the Regional rep again and if that fails, call VA Beach. There's always another way to skin the cat. You just gotta nut up and not back down.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

Being a saw mechanic for many years at 2 shops I have found that clutch springs and the eye holes that the springs go into on the clutch wear prematurely if the saw has a idle more than 300 rpm above stock setting. Granted the saws that Im speaking of had a constant idle above spec, the 661 2 to 3 seconds of running at 3100 rpm then settling down to around 2800 rpm WILL cause more clutch spring wear and eyelet wear. The clutches wear the most at the rpm were there just about to engage. Still after thousands of erratic idle downs, you will see excessive wear.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

Even after all that I just pointed out, to most people it doesn't really matter, but to me spending 1400 bucks on a top of the line pro saw that will put food on my table, it damn better well be built near perfect. Were not talking about you average 700 dollar saw here boys


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

Like rifles I go out to buy a SAKO or Weatherby, and by golly it better be a super fine above the rest firearm, which they are and I can attest to that. I now shoot rem 700 rifles because they are much cheaper, and you can tell the build is cheaper than the latter two brands. But the price difference is less than half so if the Remington is far from perfect I can live with that..


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## coltont (May 17, 2015)

The m tronic isn't your problem it's a carb issue. Tell your dealer to **** in his hat. This is obviously a problem that stihl should take care of. Maybe stihl needs to trim there fat and get rid of antiquated old school dealers. Were not in 1998 anymore. We want stuff fixed and expect out to work for the dineros paid. Maybe they should get rid of your rep too. I don't know how you have put up with it so long if your a said "timber cutter logger arborist etc" . Being broke and making dumb decisions isn't an excuse when it's your source of income.


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## Cope1024 (May 17, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Even after all that I just pointed out, to most people it doesn't really matter, but to me spending 1400 bucks on a top of the line pro saw that will put food on my table, it damn better well be built near perfect. Were not talking about you average 700 dollar saw here boys



$1400 or $700, it needs to work from the get go.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

What I was saying, if I paid 700 for a new 661rcm I could live with the way its running and get another saw just for limbing


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## coltont (May 17, 2015)

Why not just quit being a pansy and run the 661 for dumping and limbing.


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## Cope1024 (May 17, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> What I was saying, if I paid 700 for a new 661rcm I could live with the way its running and get another saw just for limbing



Got it, but still should run right at any price. Like others have said, it's time to escalate this issue and stop being Mr. Nice Guy. Best of luck.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

its hard to limb with it when it bogs every 5th limb. I a pretty quick limber and set a pace, when you have to break the pace cause the saw bogs it throws off your foot movement and you have to start from ground zero again. I think only westcoasters cutting conifers will understand what Im talking about, No offence to east coasters, different wood, different techniques


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

I actually love the balance of the 661 with the 32 inch light bar, which is why I want the bog gone so I can limb with it more


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

When Im bucking firewood I always make a cut then blip the trigger twice to keep the chain spinning between cuts then start my next cut. I produce a lot of fire wood quickly using this style, as long as the logs are pre marked for length. The 661 will sometimes bog when cutting this way.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

It sounds like this (according to my son) waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..........wap wap waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.......wap wap.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

Been cutting that way for 15 years with no problems with any saws except the 562xp with the el46 carb junk and now the 362cm and 661cm


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## coltont (May 17, 2015)

That was all cut with my 661 on Thursday. Once you get the turds sifted out you'll love it.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

I will clarify the the 562xp with the new el48 carb HAS NO bog ever ever ever, ohh yea did I forget to say EVER


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

So husky took 3 carbs to cure the 562, how many is stihl gonna need, hopefully only one


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## coltont (May 17, 2015)

I thought the 660 was snappy with a hellish good timber citing tune on it. Takes a touch to get it perfect. The 661 had it once it was broke in and is absolutely perfect ever since. Much better gas mileage than a 660. Running side by side cutting the same size timber about the same dammed way I can get about 2 more trees down and limbed per tank. That means allot when your packing in for a cutting session.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

today just for fun I tried to make the 2100cd bog, but couldn't at all even while trying to machine gun the trigger as fast as I could the saw responded perfectily. In my hardheaded brain, that's the way a pro saw should run


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## big t double (May 17, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> So husky took 3 carbs to cure the 562, how many is stihl gonna need, hopefully only one


So have they already tried installing a new carb or are they ordering one to try on your saw. I've been following along with this thread but only remember reading that they've tried a new boot.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

The stihl pacific north west rep took my saw. What is going to be don't to it I haven't a clue. I told the tech to try a new carb but he said that he had the carb all apart and its all fine, and said he WILL NOT replace the carb. He then told me that us pacific northwesters have a weird way of running their saws and stihl has had problems with this in the past (in particular he told me about 046 mag problems). he said stihl isn't going to change the way the saw runs to suit our needs in the PNW


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

Then he told my that it might be designed to run that way.....


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## coltont (May 17, 2015)

It's the dammed government


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

As far as the 362cm goes I also had the problem of not being able to use the decom valve. as others have stated the saw wont start with the use of the decom. I believe that if the saw has a option to use, then it better darn well work.... Sometimes while in a tree if the saw dies, a decom is nice to get it restarted. But with 135 pounds of compression hot how could the thing start with the compression bleed of the decom. Im willing to assume that the 362 I got as a loaner has a defective piston and or cylinder.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> It sounds like this (according to my son) waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..........wap wap waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.......wap wap.


well that what its supposed to sound like. the 661 is like: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ......wap wap waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wap boooooooooooooog waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


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## Deets066 (May 17, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Then he told my that it might be designed to run that way.....


So.... Should I tune my saws to have a bog in them, because that's how they are designed to run? 
Chit, I've been adjusting my carbs wrong all this time.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> So.... Should I tune my saws to have a bog in them, because that's how they are designed to run?
> Chit, I've been adjusting my carbs wrong all this time.


Excellent, that is what I will ask the stihl rep and tech LOL


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

The old fart that loaned me the 2100cd always told me a saying about new saws, I have NEVER listened cause I a young punk LOL. He said "give that saws ten years on the market then I will buy one, cause then the test of time will say its a good saw" . He hated the 371xp when they came out in 1996 but in 2005 or 06 he bought a new 372xp and loves it, and the fact is, those years of 372's were the best, they had better crank forgings and better clutch's and so on. So maybe I should take a hint......


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## Chris-PA (May 17, 2015)

It is a carb with the ability to adjust the mixture under some limited circumstances. Primarily this is limited by the lack of much of any sensors other than rpm, so they periodically lean out the mixture slightly and watch what happens to the rpm. It's pretty much how we would set the mixture.

This scheme can't operate under conditions where the rpm is changing for other reasons, and so much of the time it is just an old fashioned carb running without feedback control. When you let off the throttle it's running open loop without feedback control - if it won't drop rpm that says it is lean under that condition. Under load the system fixed up the mixture as it was designed to, but open loop it reverts to lean. When you open the throttle again is is also not in feedback control and it's lean again and bogs. The question is why is it lean when not under feedback control?


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## Deets066 (May 17, 2015)

Chris-PA said:


> It is a carb with the ability to adjust the mixture under some limited circumstances. Primarily this is limited by the lack of much of any sensors other than rpm, so they periodically lean out the mixture slightly and watch what happens to the rpm. It's pretty much how we would set the mixture.
> 
> This scheme can't operate under conditions where the rpm is changing for other reasons, and so much of the time it is just an old fashioned carb running without feedback control. When you let off the throttle it's running open loop without feedback control - if it won't drop rpm that says it is lean under that condition. Under load the system fixed up the mixture as it was designed to, but open loop it reverts to lean. When you open the throttle again is is also not in feedback control and it's lean again and bogs. The question is why is it lean when not under feedback control?


 
You lost me.... Way over my pay scale


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## Locust Cutter (May 17, 2015)

Likely because it was designed to run very lean when not under feedback control as a default setting in order to modify idle/low-rpm emissions. The techs probably are figuring figuring that saws are run either W.O.T. or idle so to combat that they simply made a lean default not counting on people blipping the throttle to maintain rpm (and oil especially with "E" oilers). The Tech's statement about that being the factory setting is likely correct, although I bet something is still amiss with your specifically. I would almost wonder about a small crankcase leak or a possible fuel restriction.


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## funky sawman (May 17, 2015)

Has anyone noticed that the 661 carbs have a idle throttle plate adjustment??. I wonder if the throttle flap position has anything to do with the problem?


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## gomoto69 (May 18, 2015)

I understand exactly what the op is saying about getting a rythym going while limbing, and keeping rpm up with the wap wap's between the waaaaa's, as that's exactly how i did it when i was a bucker. For a rep to tell you that's not how a saw is designed to operate hasn't spent much time on a log landing. Maybe stihl needs to have another position on your control lever for limbing, dissableing the feedback metering system to allow the carb to work as a standard carb, sort of a default with a proper slightly rich setting, then flip it back to run when falling or bucking. I can feel your pain of how frustrating a bog would be in that situation, especially when throttle response is supposed to be a selling feature of modern mtronic type saws


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## Big_Wood (May 18, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Has anyone noticed that the 661 carbs have a idle throttle plate adjustment??. I wonder if the throttle flap position has anything to do with the problem?



bumping up your post count tonight i see funky LOL to be honest, even if i was a homeowner stihl would be doing a little more for me or i'd be getting my money back. plain and simple. they sell **** they're gonna take some ****. the stihl rep here is a cool dude and my buddy owns the stihl dealer. i'm sure it wouldn't even be a question as to what they would do. make the customer happy now and deal with the money lost between the dealer and manufacturer later. maufacturer should have to soak that one up.


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## RedFir Down (May 18, 2015)

Funky, sure sorry to hear about your troubles and that stihl keeps giving you the run around!
You might try checking with STIHLTHEDEERE, he prides himself on being a GOOD Stihl dealer. Im sure he can help you out one way or another.


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## _RJ_ (May 18, 2015)

If you need my 461 let me know.


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

is the 461 bogless??? If so I might just have to bite the bullet and trade the 661 in on one


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## Cope1024 (May 19, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> is the 461 bogless??? If so I might just have to bite the bullet and trade the 661 in on one



I'd make them send me a new MS661.


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

well from what the rep was saying and the tech, all 661's are boggers when used under certain conditions


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## the GOAT (May 19, 2015)




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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

No thank you, had a few new 390's and not impressed, stock ones anyhow. a ported one would be nice but no money to have it ported


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## SAWMIKAZE (May 19, 2015)

Maybe stihl is gonna let the standard carby 661 come to the US market , that would be kinda awesome.

Blame it on auto-tune.


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## SAWMIKAZE (May 19, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> No think you, had a few new 390's and not impressed, stock ones anyhow. a ported one would be nice but no money to have it ported



I agree a 390 isnt much stock wise , get ahold of terry landrum..he could have you into a ported 390/2188 cheaper than a 661 at the dealer


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## Moparmyway (May 19, 2015)

WOW Ryan .............. want me to mail ya a toothbrush and some toothpaste ?


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## SAWMIKAZE (May 19, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> WOW Ryan .............. want me to mail ya a toothbrush and some toothpaste ?



I need braces and listerine mang.

Im gonna have the gaps filled in wiff gold teef.


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

getting a different saw from the dealer is gonna be like pulling teeth, getting my money back to buy at another dealer likely isn't going to happen


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## Moparmyway (May 19, 2015)

Call me crazy or stupid Mr. funky ...........
After seeing how my 661 ran with the maxflow air filter, I wonder if you wouldn't mind doing a little test when you get the 661 back ?

Real easy, pull off the air filter and see if it still bogs. You could install just the cover to keep out the large stuff, and a good sharp chain will keep the fines down to a minimum.


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## SAWMIKAZE (May 19, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> getting a different saw from the dealer is gonna be like pulling teeth, getting my money back to buy at another dealer likely isn't going to happen



I saw you said your 241 has been trouble free..mine too.

Maybe m-tronic isnt as awesome as everyone thought ?


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## SAWMIKAZE (May 19, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> Call me crazy or stupid Mr. funky ...........
> After seeing how my 661 ran with the maxflow air filter, I wonder if you wouldn't mind doing a little test when you get the 661 back ?
> 
> Real easy, pull off the air filter and see if it still bogs. You could install just the cover to keep out the large stuff, and a good sharp chain will keep the fines down to a minimum.



How did you keep the max flow on ? ..i havent tried it yet , did you use the filter nut from the 661 or somefin else ?


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> Call me crazy or stupid Mr. funky ...........
> After seeing how my 661 ran with the maxflow air filter, I wonder if you wouldn't mind doing a little test when you get the 661 back ?
> 
> Real easy, pull off the air filter and see if it still bogs. You could install just the cover to keep out the large stuff, and a good sharp chain will keep the fines down to a minimum.


Im willing to try anything at this point


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I saw you said your 241 has been trouble free..mine too.
> 
> Maybe m-tronic isnt as awesome as everyone thought ?


As far as my 241cm, I wouldn't trade it for anything.


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## _RJ_ (May 19, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> is the 461 bogless??? If so I might just have to bite the bullet and trade the 661 in on one



I haven't had any bogging issues with it. My offer was to help, if needed, while your 661 issue was being dealt with. Fallers around here almost exclusively run the 461R, if they're running a Stihl.


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## Trx250r180 (May 19, 2015)

If you get a 461 ,you will not like it limbing unless you put a 460 coil in it ,the stock coil is fine for bucking ,but walking down a tree limbing the rpm's bounce all over off the rev limiter


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## Moparmyway (May 19, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> How did you keep the max flow on ? ..i havent tried it yet , did you use the filter nut from the 661 or somefin else ?


Took a few minutes but I like how it came out.
Max flow don't have an internal frame, so I used the HD2 (GASP)
Had to open the hole in the max flow plate for the 661 knob to fit, and drilled some holes into the HD2


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## SAWMIKAZE (May 19, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> Took a few minutes but I like how it came out.
> Max flow don't have an internal frame, so I used the HD2 (GASP)
> Had to open the hole in the max flow plate for the 661 knob to fit, and drilled some holes into the HD2



Cool man , is that belray filter oil ? .. i have summadat...and the uni from baileys.


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## Chris-PA (May 19, 2015)

Locust Cutter said:


> Likely because it was designed to run very lean when not under feedback control as a default setting in order to modify idle/low-rpm emissions. The techs probably are figuring figuring that saws are run either W.O.T. or idle so to combat that they simply made a lean default not counting on people blipping the throttle to maintain rpm (and oil especially with "E" oilers). The Tech's statement about that being the factory setting is likely correct, although I bet something is still amiss with your specifically. I would almost wonder about a small crankcase leak or a possible fuel restriction.


Well, it's just a carb with an added system to adjust the mixture under certain limited conditions. When the simplistic control system can figure out what the mixture is by looking at the rpm then it can compensate. When it can't then it's just a carb, every bit as inaccurate as any other chainsaw carb (which is pretty awful). 

I don't know if this system can control mixture at idle, but changing throttle position would be extremely difficult for such a system to deal with so I'd assume it is open loop then. The reasons it could be lean when not being controlled are exactly the same as they would be in any other chainsaw. To me it sounds like the L fuel circuit is too lean, so I'd look at why that is.


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

The saw does not run lean at idle all the time, you can hear it fatten up the mix after it does its lean idle down from full throttle. If the saw is let idle for several minutes is sounds just fine, no lean surging. Its just above idle that needs richened up. My limbing style confuses the saw. I hit the trigger full throttle but before it actually hits max rpm I already release the trigger. so when the limb in question is cut the saw is turning about 8500 to 9000 rpm. From the sounds of the stihl rep, the saw cant retune without hitting full throttle and max rpm and load. That causes a tune issue because the m-tronic cant figure out what to do I guess. Is the 661 mtronic that much different than the 241cm?


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

These guys are defending the m-tronic, I believe It is the m-tronic causing the problem, if this saw had an screwdriver carb this thread would have never been started


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

if its not a M-tronic problem, several people complaining about the same issue and issues with other model saws with m-tronic,..... HMMMM whats the chances of all these saws having bad carbs, pretty slim.


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## Trx250r180 (May 19, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> These guys are defending the m-tronic, I believe It is the m-tronic causing the problem, if this saw had an screwdriver carb this thread would have never been started


Sure looks like the 661 could be converted to a normal coil and carb to me if could find one that would fit .


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## the GOAT (May 19, 2015)

So you don't want m-tronic, needs to be on springs and it can't be a 390xp....


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

Here is an idea, I hear that the ignition modules change timing, mabie this isn't a lean bog, but a transistor sticking in the module causing too retarded or advanced timing which in turn is causing a bog. I had a 266xp once with a sheared flywheel key, that caused the saw to bog off idle


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

the GOAT said:


> So you don't want m-tronic, needs to be on springs and it can't be a 390xp....


YEP, and a 395 vibrates way too much


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

sounds like a EURO 661 will fill the bill, but to get my hands on one, well that's a different story.


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## Moparmyway (May 19, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Cool man , is that belray filter oil ? .. i have summadat...and the uni from baileys.


Yup, sure is BelRay air filter oil .................. expensive stuff !


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## funky sawman (May 19, 2015)

The toughest part about the 661 bog is that its not consistent. If I knew it was gonna bog before each limb then I would pre plan my footing and rhythm. But when an occasional bog is thrown in it ......... up everything


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## funky sawman (May 20, 2015)

So here is a question, with my 661 being in the shop so long my warranty is now past 3 months. So does that mean as soon as I get my saw back its out of warranty???


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## Rockjock (May 20, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> So here is a question, with my 661 being in the shop so long my warranty is now past 3 months. So does that mean as soon as I get my saw back its out of warranty???




I would think Stihl would turn the clock back in this situation.


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## funky sawman (May 20, 2015)

I sure wish I could set back time after losing it in the hospital LOL


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## Rockjock (May 20, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> I sure wish I could set back time after losing it in the hospital LOL




Oh if I could go back and fix my mistakes! hmmm! LOL


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## funky sawman (May 20, 2015)

Here is an idea. running the 362cm and the 241 cm both of them you could tell when the saw was resetting its self, like after a large temperature change and or elevation change. My 661 never ever did this even after doing a reset, it always ran the same from the moment it came out of the box. Is is a bad module causing adaptive learning issues?


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## dwraisor (May 20, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> sounds like a EURO 661 will fill the bill, but to get my hands on one, well that's a different story.



Maybe reach out to some of our European friends, have them buy just the carb, and side panel w/ holes (or drill yours out) (whatever else is needed). Ship you the standard parts to deconvert YOUR current saw to the screwdriver version.

Of course this voids the warranty... 


dw


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## funky sawman (May 20, 2015)

Well so far the warranty has not done me any good, except frustrations up the ying yang


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## Big_Wood (May 20, 2015)

i think your being to easy on your dealer. i'll tell ya right now. it's sounding like you have been without you saw for 3 months if you warranty is 3 months past. that **** absolutely would not fly with me. i'd have a new saw or my money back dealers building burnt down or not LOL.


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## funky sawman (May 20, 2015)

well the first month I hardly used the saw, like 2 gallons or so, then the weather got nice and I started sawing more


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## bigbehr85 (May 28, 2015)

Updates?


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## funky sawman (May 28, 2015)

Stihl rep said he is installing a new updated ignition module that has new software. Also he is replacing the carb for good measure


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## redbull660 (May 28, 2015)

Funky sawman - do you know when your 661 was built? Just curious if I need to worry about this new software update.

Did I just say that? Software update for my fckin chainsaw!?!??!?! gawd.


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## funky sawman (May 29, 2015)

Sorry, I have no idea the build date on this saws.


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## Moparmyway (May 29, 2015)

Hey funky sawman,
Would yours bog doing this ?


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## funky sawman (May 29, 2015)

it would only bog if you blipped the trigger quickily at a lower rpm


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## funky sawman (May 29, 2015)

Just picked up a good running 288xp and a 2100cd. Back to old school saws for me


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## Deets066 (May 29, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Just picked up a good running 288xp and a 2100cd. Back to old school saws for me


Okay... We need some pictures! 
Also, what's your take on the 2100? 
I don't own any huskies, I have ran a couple of them but didn't care for how they were put together. Seemed cheapish (not starting no chit here) are the 2100's this way? I have heard a lot of good about them and have been a little interested in how they run.


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## big t double (May 29, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> Okay... We need some pictures!
> Also, what's your take on the 2100?
> I don't own any huskies, I have ran a couple of them but didn't care for how they were put together. Seemed cheapish (not starting no chit here) are the 2100's this way? I have heard a lot of good about them and have been a little interested in how they run.


I might know a guy with a 395 you can get for dirt cheap


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## Deets066 (May 29, 2015)

big t double said:


> I might know a guy with a 395 you can get for dirt cheap


This would fall in the cheapish category


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## Deets066 (May 29, 2015)

big t double said:


> I might know a guy with a 395 you can get for dirt cheap


You fix that buckin spike, oil leak, choke, and carb. And we'll talk


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## gomoto69 (May 30, 2015)

I think the years of 2100's basically ruling the world as big timber professional falling saws speaks for itself, and no, they're not built cheap,


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## Moparmyway (May 30, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> it would only bog if you blipped the trigger quickily at a lower rpm


I used mine on a few stumps ........... no bog after a cut, nice and crisp throttle all the time.
You can really hear it sucking in with the MaxFlow installed over the windowed HD2 !!

I hope yours comes back and runs like it should. Good luck !


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## Big_Wood (May 30, 2015)

the 2100's are a good saw and the fact they wiped out the 090 and kept most away from the 084 says something about them. myself, it'll be the day you see me running one for actual work. they are antiques and should be treated as such. i personally like running the 084 more then the 2100 even though most favoured the 2100. i would carry a 395 around in the woods way way way before a 2100. saying a 395 vibrates to much and then running a 2100 . the 2100 is of course not even legal to use professionally here in BC anymore but i'm not sure about the states. the only reason is the lack of a chain brake or the chain brake design of the newer models. anything with a metal brake handle is not accepted cause they say it only engages with a hand on the top handle. it needs to engage when using the side handles as well. BC be picky though. the 288 is another story. i could likely get used to using one again if i had to.


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## Deets066 (May 30, 2015)

Damn cad, I don't even know why I think about buyin a big husky when I have a mastermind 088.


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## funky sawman (Jun 3, 2015)

Got the 661 back today, it is for sure running better, I will have to try it in some wood later


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## redbull660 (Jun 3, 2015)

awesome! and I gotta say...took Stihl long enough!!!


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## funky sawman (Jun 3, 2015)

After this experience with the dealer, I will say I will not buy another stihl. And I refuse to drive 60 miles one way to the next good stihl dealer.


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## funky sawman (Jun 3, 2015)

cant get it to bog so at least I have got somewere. NEW ignition module is the fix


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## Deleted member 135597 (Jun 3, 2015)

wonder why the ignition module would make the saw bog if you held the saw vertical


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## funky sawman (Jun 3, 2015)

The intake boot caused the bog when nose was in the air


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## funky sawman (Jun 3, 2015)

Well im a happy 2100 customer this is the new baby


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## funky sawman (Jun 3, 2015)

But now i must sell the 661 to pay for this near mint 2100


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## Big_Wood (Jun 3, 2015)

LMAO you crack me up man. first the 562 made you not wanna buy a husky again, now the 661 makes you not wanna by a stihl again. maybe try a dolmar?  i see your sig and assume that's out of the question LOL. it's all good though funky. glad that's figured out for ya anyways and you know damn well that 2100 won't give ya issues. it'll just vibrate like crazy! post your 661 in the trader. someone will snag it up.


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## funky sawman (Jun 3, 2015)

Yea im switching to echo and shindaiwa


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## CR888 (Jun 3, 2015)

lf l were the OP l would consider a Dolmar 7900. Light and good av with 80cc's to boot. But l also understand when you need power in a production environment. This whole thread was NOT a good advertisment for stihl's new tech and how 'the average' dealer treats commercial customers. lts a sad day when we need to pick up 2100's and 288's to get the job done. I think the main issue is the dealers both husky & stihl are not able to diagnose and fix saws with AT/MT tech. They get rattled by a system that was intended to aid the servicing dealer.


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## funky sawman (Jun 3, 2015)

There is no support for dolmar up here so thats out


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## pro94lt (Jun 3, 2015)

Funky you must just be a picky sob. Give the 562 a try and the 661. The 2100 and 288 are legends. But just can't compete with today's saws. What's your bottom dollar on the pair?


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## funky sawman (Jun 3, 2015)

the 2100 and 288 are not for sale


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## Big_Wood (Jun 3, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Yea im switching to echo and shindaiwa



only reason i never gave echo or shinny a chance was there lack of modern large saws. my buddy vern has an echo top handle that just won't die. think it's a 355T and he's been beating it for near 5 years now i figure. think he bought it from bailey's when they were on sale. i've borrowed it a few times and while i feel it's pretty gutless it's been dead nutz reliable under professional use and i don't recall him ever needing to repair anything on it.


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## redfin (Jun 3, 2015)

CR888 said:


> lts a sad day when we need to pick up 288's to get the job done.



Please bite your tongue


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## blsnelling (Jun 3, 2015)

Never was real impressed with my 2101. I'd much rather run any of the modern saws.


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## funky sawman (Jun 3, 2015)

I not impressed with the 2100 either, but when it needs service work I got a spare complete parts saw and have had many of them down to the crankshaft. And I know an old fart that has a bunch of NOS crankcase gaskets and pistons and so on. That means less down time for me and that is the FINAL LINE when it comes to brass tax


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## Deets066 (Jun 3, 2015)

Are you puttin the modified muffler back on the 661?


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## pro94lt (Jun 3, 2015)

Just get a 390 and sell it on the trading forum every 2 years for 800. You got the power no vibes no electricity and be done...


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## RedFir Down (Jun 4, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> There is no support for dolmar up here so thats out


Sounds like you didnt get any support from shihl either... but you did get a whole bunch of aggravation.


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## Spectre468 (Jun 4, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> After this experience with the dealer, I will say I will not buy another stihl. And I refuse to drive 60 miles one way to the next good stihl dealer.


My dealer is about 70 miles one way, and well worth the drive time!


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## CR888 (Jun 4, 2015)

redfin said:


> Please bite your tongue


288's are to be used occaisionally and listened to often. l just like hearing them idle.


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## CR888 (Jun 4, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> There is no support for dolmar up here so thats out


Sounds like there's not much Stihl support either.lol. Maybe a set of Wiha tools from weedeaterman may serve you best. l gave up on dealers a long time ago. Warranty often aint worth the paper its written on. A set of tools and access to AS search feature could be your safest bet. A solid back up saw is an idea to.


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## Bwildered (Jun 4, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> But now i must sell the 661 to pay for this near mint 2100


Somebody's going to get a great saw, as there is nothing wrong with it now.
Thansk


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## Moparmyway (Jun 4, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> But now i must sell the 661


How much ?


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## mdavlee (Jun 4, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> How much ?


A 661 for each hand[emoji6]


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## Moparmyway (Jun 4, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> A 661 for each hand


066-661 ........... whichever comes first gets to play


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## MustangMike (Jun 9, 2015)

Somehow, I stopped getting alerts on this thread (This site does it to me regularly). Wish I knew you were selling that 661 for that price! Someone got a great deal.

Glad they finally figured it out, a shame you had to move it along.


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## funky sawman (Jun 9, 2015)

Now we need a saw that's as smooth and high speed as the 661 but is built heaver than a tank like the 2100cd. If I could find one, I would have a 285 with a 2101 thin ring jug and piston


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## MustangMike (Jun 9, 2015)

I think I'd be happy with that 661 and the 32" light bar!


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## Big_Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

funky sawman said:


> Now we need a saw that's as smooth and high speed as the 661 but is built heaver than a tank like the 2100cd. If I could find one, I would have a 285 with a 2101 thin ring jug and piston



why? the 2101 and 285 would be literally an ounce difference and then you wouldn't have the manual oiler. may as well just get a thin ring 2100. 2101 i believe never came with a thin ring top end and if i blind folded you to have you run a 2101 thick ring against a 2100 thin ring you wouldn't be able to tell me which was which because they both run good. myself, i think i'd be a stihl guy before i ran a 2100 again LOL


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## coltont (Jun 9, 2015)

Stihl FTW

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Big_Wood (Jun 9, 2015)

coltont said:


> Stihl FTW
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



to be honest though, if i had to run anything 056/076/090 related again i probably wouldn't cut wood. i absolutely hate those old POS stihls. make the 2100 seem like the best saw in the world LOL


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## coltont (Jun 9, 2015)

Old tech. Anything 066 and newer it's game on. Just not the 441. That prick looks like the beached whale of saws to me.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## funky sawman (Jun 9, 2015)

if I had to have another saw that sat in a shop for more than 3 weeks I would take up a different trade, Eeyup. be a cowboy or sumpthen


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## Deets066 (Jun 9, 2015)

Can't beleive your sellin the 661! Get your head right! The perfect fallin saw is sittin in your lap.


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## funky sawman (Jun 9, 2015)

well no longer in my lap, I be keeping the 241 and 2100


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## strtspdlx (Aug 22, 2015)

Regards-Carlo


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## coltont (Aug 23, 2015)

661 is in the shop. Again. This makes 5 times since December. The dealer is now going to call stihl and see if I can get a replacement. When it is running it's everything you want in a timber saw, it just doesn't run consistently for more than 3 days at a time. Bad hesitation off the throttle. Sometimes it won't start after you run it out of fuel sometimes it just won't open up to wide open. Has had I think 3 or 4 solenoids 1 new coil and most recently a complete carb swap. I'm glad I have 2 660s and an 066 to keep me going .

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2015)

Check your intake boot to see if the rubber washers are out of place.


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## coltont (Aug 23, 2015)

I checked that last week. Heck there aren't any washers at all in it. The DOM is 9/14 if that makes any difference.

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## pro94lt (Aug 23, 2015)

Are all these 661 problems why they pulled it off the market?


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## Idahonative (Aug 23, 2015)

westcoaster90 said:


> I really am a prick. Was in the whiskey last night hence the late post LOL. I can be nice. Forgive my funky saw man. Funky saw man and I have had good conversations many times before. Was just getting riled up and stirring the ****. Didn't even realize it was him til this morning. Not used to that avatar LOL



You know what, this isn't the first time I've seen you apologize for being a prick and then blame it on the booze. Seems like a pattern with you.

This is an interesting thread and I think there is a lot to learn here even for guys who don't own Stihls. I know this was somewhat of an old post but you really need to quit DWSing (drinking while surfing).


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## Idahonative (Aug 23, 2015)

After reading all 22 pages of this thread, sure makes me happy to own these low tech, old school Echos.


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## pro94lt (Aug 23, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> You know what, this isn't the first time I've seen you apologize for being a prick and then blame it on the booze. Seems like a pattern with you.
> 
> This is an interesting thread and I think there is a lot to learn here even for guys who don't own Stihls. I know this was somewhat of an old post but you really need to quit DWSing (drinking while surfing).


If people stopped drinking and posting this site wouldn't exist lol


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## backhoelover (Aug 23, 2015)

check this out


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## coltont (Aug 23, 2015)

I've got a great dealer but they are just plain unable to figure out what's wrong. Hell I know more from this site about the m tronic system than there mechanic, not bashing him at all he's just not worked on many of the m tronic systems because they haven't had many in there shop with problems.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## MustangMike (Aug 23, 2015)

While I really like my old school 044s & 046, I like my new school 362 C just as much.

It is a shame when some people have tech troubles, but hopefully, they it gets worked out.

I also notice Funky likes the 241 C, so they don't all have problems.


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## coltont (Aug 23, 2015)

No I don't think it's a problem with the 661s in general. I just got a turd. When it's up and going it's the best saw you could ask for for cutting down and limbing. Way better on fuel than the 660s and 066 too.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## blsnelling (Aug 23, 2015)

pro94lt said:


> Are all these 661 problems why they pulled it off the market?


Not at all. It had to do with the topend. On the other hand, I have a good friend running one of the early ones with no issues. He runs it hard too. Keep in mind that on an enthusiasts forum, issues often seem worse than they are.


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## backhoelover (Aug 23, 2015)

try to change the solenoid gasket just a thought


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## Dieselshawn (Aug 23, 2015)

Hey guys, we have 4 661's over the past year. 

The first one the guys bought ran great for 6 months until a tree flattened it. 

Then another guy in same company bought one 6 months ago. 

Ran like crap, always hard to start, low power and resetting didn't work. 

We have great dealer support with several dealers. 

So fuel filter was changed, mastermind suggested the fuel solenoid, which was changed, no luck. 

This saw also had the notorious rubber washer in the intake, not one but 2 of them. This did not cause the issues. 

So the m-tronic computer and carb was swapped over from the crushed saw into the poor running saw. Issue fixed. 

Saw has been running great since. (Other than the piston rings sticking and carboned up pistons that mastermind and I have discussed about) 

The guy that had his saw crushed bought a replacement 661. 

For a little time the saw was good then had issues of low power, bogging.

Dealer replaced the computer but it doesn't fix the problem. 

The guy traded the saw in for another new one with credit from the old saw going to the new one as that one was out of warranty. 

The saw was traded in as the guy was fed up and didn't want to wait for the issue to be figured out. 

So I think the carb itself is the issue. 

We now have 4 661's all together and 2 had issues. The new one is running great so far. 

These dealers have tried many things to get saw's working right and only one got fixed by having the m-tronic and carb swapped over. 

These dealers also have the plug in computer to verify issues but nothing came up.


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## backhoelover (Aug 23, 2015)

lol should have read up the post


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## coltont (Aug 23, 2015)

That computer that they plug them into is a joke. Even when its plugged in when the issue is present it has never said that anything was wrong. Why is it that the 661 seems to be about the only m tronic with issues? What makes it the exception?

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## Dieselshawn (Aug 23, 2015)

Coltont: I agree that the plug in computers are useless. 

I have wondered the same thing as to why the 661's have more issues than any other m-tronic saws.

Like others have said, the 661 is supposed to be Stihl's flagship model. 

One of the loggers that runs a mastermind 660 in the same company that has 661's with issues, absolutely refuses to get a 661. Even if his boss says so. (So overtime they can accumulate spare parts to fix 661's as time goes on)

He doesn't care if they're smoother or whatnot, if they don't run right, trees aren't falling, no money is being made and cost to repair or replace really adds up.


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## MustangMike (Aug 23, 2015)

They likely keep tweaking it to be more emissions compliant.


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## coltont (Aug 23, 2015)

I have probably 300 trailer loads of logs on mine. I'm not giving up on it. That's why we have 4saws along everyday. Isn't costing any $$ for the repair work. Mostly it's just aggravating when you carry it back into the woods and and performs worse than a wild thing. I don't feel that my saw is a good representation of a stihl product.

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## Dieselshawn (Aug 23, 2015)

Coltont: we do have back ups which are high hour 660's but runs just fine. 

We just use them while others are in shop for repair. 

I agree on 661's not being a good representation of a respectable company especially when their previous flag ship saw, the legendary 660 has been around 30 years.


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## coltont (Aug 23, 2015)

Almost forgot to mention this little surprise I got from it to. I'm just glad no little pieces hit me in the face. The explosion was a result of the pull cord being too dammed big from the factory and it got a twist in it and doubled over itself and its history from there. 


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## Idahonative (Aug 24, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> *Keep in mind that on an enthusiasts forum, issues often seem worse than they are*.



Maybe, but this isn't just an enthusiast forum. I consider myself an enthusiast but there are plenty of guys on here like the OP who make a living with their saws. Maybe his 661 problem doesn't seem like that big a deal to some but it was a major annoyance to him and I can see his point. If I paid $1400 for a saw, it damn well better run perfect...enthusiast or not. And there are very few enthusiast who would lay down that kind of cash.


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## DND 9000 (Aug 24, 2015)

backhoelover said:


> try to change the solenoid gasket just a thought



I think this is a good idea, to try out. Normally on the m-tronic carburetors that sealing ring isn`t availible as a spare part. They sell the whole solenoid valve with the sealing ring. But from the MS 280i carburetor (HD 39), there the sealing ring of the solenoid valve is availible as a spare part. Part number is 9645 945 3001 O-ring 7x0.8


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## Foragefarmer (Aug 24, 2015)

coltont said:


> That computer that they plug them into is a joke. Even when its plugged in when the issue is present it has never said that anything was wrong. Why is it that the 661 seems to be about the only m tronic with issues? What makes it the exception?
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



I have a 241 for my business that lives in a truck box and runs almost every day sometimes all day and it has had similar issues. Two solenoids and a whole new carb.. I am not so much unhappy with the saw issues as the 90 day commercial warranty and poor dealer service that didn't fix the issue. Also I had to wait 2.5 weeks for the new carb and had to call Stihl myself in order to get it that fast, they shipped it from a different warehouse. By that point I had switched dealers and was working on the saw myself. In the mean time I bought an 026 as a dedicated backup.


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2015)

Idahonative said:


> Maybe, but this isn't just an enthusiast forum. I consider myself an enthusiast but there are plenty of guys on here like the OP who make a living with their saws. Maybe his 661 problem doesn't seem like that big a deal to some but it was a major annoyance to him and I can see his point. If I paid $1400 for a saw, it damn well better run perfect...enthusiast or not. And there are very few enthusiast who would lay down that kind of cash.


You misunderstood me. My point is that we on this forum are going to see more issues than the normal Joe. Anyone with an issue on this forum posts about it, making the issue seem more wide spread than it really is.


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2015)

Dieselshawn said:


> Saw has been running great since. (Other than the piston rings sticking and carboned up pistons that mastermind and I have discussed about).


What fuel, oil, and mix ratio?


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## Dieselshawn (Aug 24, 2015)

BLSnelling: they use 92 e-free gas, 45:1 mix, and tcw3 oil. 

They've used the oil for long time in 660's but since they purchased 661's they've had 4 Pistons carboned up and stuck rings in 2 of their 661's.


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2015)

Dieselshawn said:


> BLSnelling: they use 92 e-free gas, 45:1 mix, and tcw3 oil.
> 
> They've used the oil for long time in 660's but since they purchased 661's they've had 4 Pistons carboned up and stuck rings in 2 of their 661's.


That's the wrong kind of oil, whether it's worked in the past or not. That's a pretty obvious place to start. Hard to put any blame on Stihl when running the wrong kind of oil. Just sayin'.


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## Dieselshawn (Aug 24, 2015)

It is wrong oil in my view as well, but I couldn't argue with them as they said of was better than the stihl oils they used in the past. 

They've had no crank or big end failures of any kind. 

One of their 660's they just retired has about 9,000 hrs on it. Used every day since 2009. No failures. Just worn out.

The issues the 661's have isn't oil alone. It's part of one problem


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2015)

Maybe so, but it's an obvious place to start. A base line has to be established, following Stihl recommendations. Unfortunately, there's no longer the ability to use a little orange screwdriver to tune around issues or deviations from factory. Oil and oil mix ratio can have a significant affect on how these MTronic saws run, some more so than others.


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## Dieselshawn (Aug 24, 2015)

You are correct brad. I don't run those saws but the very first time I saw the piston in the 661 that had jammed rings, I said right away "oil issue". 

The company president got pi$$ed and said its not the oil. 

But after 4 times of cleaning and fixing their saws. Thete getting the idea. 

They're using stihl oil now.


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2015)

There's a local contractor here that runs a large lawn care operation. He went through one BR600 after another. He was using TCW3 oil from Wal-Mart, IIRC. He refused to use Stihl oil. He was too cheap to run anything else and insisted that it shouldn't matter. They finally convinced him to use Stihl oil and his problems went away. As the saying goes, you can't fix stupid, lol. I feel your pain!


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## Dieselshawn (Aug 24, 2015)

It's unbelievable how hard it is to fix stupid and some are destined to remain stupid. 

But I'm glad They're getting the idea. 

I'll be using yamalube 2r once they arrive for my personal 660. 

I was using stihl oil, Belray, and sometimes that tcw3 they used. 

My 660's piston is clean.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Aug 24, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> You misunderstood me. My point is that we on this forum are going to see more issues than the normal Joe. Anyone with an issue on this forum posts about it, making the issue seem more wide spread than it really is.



Does that apply to all the people who ragged on 562's ? And said m-tronic was more reliable than auto-tune ?


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Does that apply to all the people who ragged on 562's ? And said m-tronic was more reliable than auto-tune ?


Quite possibly.


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## Pud (Aug 24, 2015)

Does the 661 have a zama or walbro carb ?


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2015)

Pud said:


> Does the 661 have a zama or walbro carb ?


Walbro WJ-134A. I'd love to get my hands on a WJ-135A, the non MTronic carb


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## stihlaficionado (Aug 24, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Walbro WJ-134A. I'd love to get my hands on a WJ-135A, the non MTronic carb


Sold in the USA or Europe only?


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2015)

In Europe I believe...definitely not in the US. I do have a German friend though


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## Dieselshawn (Aug 24, 2015)

Brad: I too would love to have a non m-tronic carb as well!

I think we do better with our own tuning than the computer can.


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## MustangMike (Aug 24, 2015)

When I first joined this site and wanted to sell my pre M-Tronic 441, no one wanted it because the M-Tronic ones ran so much better!

I'm also happy with my 362 C. I hope those with problems get them resolved, having them must not be any fun.


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## coltont (Aug 24, 2015)

Mine needs two parts. The mechanic is on vacation till next week. He's the only saw guy. YAY!!!!

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## Dieselshawn (Aug 24, 2015)

Brad: is the german friend a AS member?


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## singinwoodwackr (Aug 24, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> In Europe I believe...definitely not in the US. I do have a German friend though


so do I...an she's heading this way later in the year...think I should have her bring a couple? 

part#?


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## blsnelling (Aug 24, 2015)

singinwoodwackr said:


> so do I...an she's heading this way later in the year...think I should have her bring a couple?
> 
> part#?


These are the sum of the PNs that I've found different. I don't think they're all required, but here they are. 

Carb – WJ-135 – 1144 120 0600
Coil – 1144 400 1301
Wiring Harness – 1144 440 3000
Grommet – 1144 123 7500
Trigger – 1144 182 1000
Choke Rod – 1144 185 1900
Retainer – 1144 182 2100
Spring – 1144 442 1600
Switch Shaft – 1144 182 0900


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## thechainsawguy (Aug 24, 2015)

So far, I am not hearing about many raves for the MS661 at least by commercial fallers. They miss their MS660's. The MS661's are not as rugged either.

Dave


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## singinwoodwackr (Aug 24, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> These are the sum of the PNs that I've found different. I don't think they're all required, but here they are.
> 
> Carb – WJ-135 – 1144 120 0600
> Coil – 1144 400 1301
> ...


so, you'd need more than just the carb?


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## blsnelling (Aug 25, 2015)

singinwoodwackr said:


> so, you'd need more than just the carb?


I haven't tried it yet. I'm hoping that maybe a 066/660 carb will bolt up.


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## Dieselshawn (Aug 26, 2015)

Brad: I'm sure it'll be possible. We got the 044/046 carb to fit on 026/260's didn't we?

Just a little brainstorming etc, some ideas shall come.


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## mdavlee (Aug 26, 2015)

Go big or go home 084


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## singinwoodwackr (Aug 26, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> I haven't tried it yet. I'm hoping that maybe a 066/660 carb will bolt up.


Well let know, turns out I have a direct Stihl contact via my neighbor... Who's mother is coming from Germany in Dec so can have her bring whatever


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## Phoenix saws (Nov 8, 2015)

A standard wj-67 from a 660 bolts straight on but the control module's timing curve will be wrong unless the solenoid remains in the circuit.


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## CR888 (Nov 8, 2015)

Phoenix saws said:


> A standard wj-67 from a 660 bolts straight on but the control module's timing curve will be wrong unless the solenoid remains in the circuit.


So is there a simple solution to this? Can you make it work? l like the idea of a standard carb 661. Maybe ordering the right parts out of europe is the way to go.


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## hseII (Nov 8, 2015)

singinwoodwackr said:


> Well let know, turns out I have a direct Stihl contact via my neighbor... Who's mother is coming from Germany in Dec so can have her bring whatever



I was in Russia back in May and June of this year, and while they still have MS440s, a non CM 661 was hard to locate. 
So much so I gave up on bringing one back with me. 

Good Luck.


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## psuiewalsh (Nov 8, 2015)

Phoenix saws said:


> A standard wj-67 from a 660 bolts straight on but the control module's timing curve will be wrong unless the solenoid remains in the circuit.


Can you leave it hooked to the circuit but not attached to a carb, allowing a std carb to work independently?


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## blsnelling (Nov 8, 2015)

Phoenix saws said:


> A standard wj-67 from a 660 bolts straight on but the control module's timing curve will be wrong unless the solenoid remains in the circuit.


I have seen no evidence that timing is dynamic. I have a hunch it's no different than any electronic coil, which retards at low RPMs in order to aid starting, then goes to max advance right after it comes off idle.


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## Phoenix saws (Nov 8, 2015)

Without the solenoid wiring in the curcuit they start and idle perfectly but die at the first lean out test. With the solenoid wire run to earth it will run but the timing is not advancing. With the solenoid hung in the airbox as a dummy they are everything you would expect a carby 661 to be. Not sure of the longevity of the mod, I just tested the concept out of interest.


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## blsnelling (Nov 8, 2015)

Phoenix saws said:


> Without the solenoid wiring in the curcuit they start and idle perfectly but die at the first lean out test. With the solenoid wire run to earth it will run but the timing is not advancing. With the solenoid hung in the airbox as a dummy they are everything you would expect a carby 661 to be. Not sure of the longevity of the mod, I just tested the concept out of interest.


Thanks for that leg work. That's good to know! I'd like to run an unlimited coil as well. I've hear the 066/660 works, but have not seen it confirmed.


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## Phoenix saws (Nov 8, 2015)

The non IEM ms 280 ignition module is the same physical size and mounting as a 661 and except for a shorter plug lead looks like a direct swap. I'm guessing that they share a lot in common due to the evolution of the inteligent engine management system and m-tronic The flywheel is a different diameter but the modules appear to be interchangeable. I haven't tried it yet but see no obvious reason why it wouldn't work.


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## treesmith (Nov 9, 2015)

My 661c toasted the top end the other day, looks like a lean seize, needs a new piston and rings, hopefully the cylinder is just transfer. Had a slow leak on pressure/vac test from the decomp, combustion chamber and piston filthy with grey brown carbon from ultra 40/1, maybe decomp was sticking from it?Hearing about an updated coil to make it run richer, anyone else?


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## Phoenix saws (Nov 9, 2015)

With emissions regulations the way they are no company will ever bring out anything to make a saw run richer. I heard they might even bring out a new zero emissions coil, just an empty lump of plastic to bolt on to realy keep the epa happy. I suppose you won't be needing this for your saw since it's already had the zero emissions upgrade.


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## Phoenix saws (Nov 9, 2015)

Seriously though they are a fantastic saw, they leave the clunky old 660 for dead. Ive also heard that there is an upgraded coil out now that I presume does let the saw run a bit richer under load. What Stihl need is the programming guy from VW to jump in on the 661 team, I'm guessing he's looking for another job!


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## CR888 (Nov 9, 2015)

^^^that is a good post! Treesmiths story is not good. I won't tell ya off for running ultra ...although everyone thinks I am insane for liking fb rated mineral oil!Hope cylinder cleans up and a new piston/rings sort things out.


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## Pud (Nov 9, 2015)

Phoinex saws can u figure out how to put a normal carb on a 562 next ?


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## blsnelling (Nov 9, 2015)

Is the 280 coil rev limited?


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