# dozer around walnut trees?



## 066logger (Feb 15, 2011)

im not sure that this is the right forum for this question but here goes. im clearing all the junk trees out of about a 5 acre walnut patch. mostly hedge and thorny locust. the grove is fairly mature already with severall trees around 25 inches. the majority of the trees right now are about 15 inches. now my question. my stepdad is wanting to take a 953 cat or D8 and push out the stumps from the trees that i cut out. he will be within 5 feet of the walnuts making ruts and the whole 9 yards. i told him he was crazy and that he would kill all the trees that i was just protecting. so im hoping that i can show him this and he will see that its not a good idea. whats the minumum distance that you can drive a 50 000lb machine from a tree and not do any damage to the root system? thanks.


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## chad556 (Feb 15, 2011)

As long as you keep the dozer outside of the drip line (Imaginary line drawn vertically from the edge of the trees canopy) of the walnuts they should be fine. Any closer than that and you might do significant damage to the root system. Thats what they taught us in school anyways.


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## 066logger (Feb 15, 2011)

thanks. thats exactly what i needed to kno. beings that these trees are spaced about 20 feet apart then it looks like this is gonna be a no go.


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## 8433jeff (Feb 15, 2011)

That 50,000 lb machine (ain't a D8, not a modern one) has tracks on it. Load your pickup with wood and drive under the tree and you will have compacted the soil way more than the dozer. Some smaller dozers will go places you can't walk, not that I would take one there. I'm guessing, not knowing what the dozer is exactly, but under 15 lbs/sq.in. would not surprise me. If the tracks are over 24" wide, it might be single digits/sq. in.


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## 8433jeff (Feb 15, 2011)

The roots from the stumps will rot, will they not? I'm certainly here as a guest, and stated the facts as I know them as far as the equipment goes. If you grind them with a pickup and grinder, you will do as much harm than pulling/grubbing them out with the cat, so they stay?
Walnuts are squirrel food, and good firewood, I know how I would proceed.


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## 066logger (Feb 15, 2011)

8433jeff said:


> That 50,000 lb machine (ain't a D8, not a modern one) has tracks on it. Load your pickup with wood and drive under the tree and you will have compacted the soil way more than the dozer. Some smaller dozers will go places you can't walk, not that I would take one there. I'm guessing, not knowing what the dozer is exactly, but under 15 lbs/sq.in. would not surprise me. If the tracks are over 24" wide, it might be single digits/sq. in.


 
wow your right, i just looked up the D8 and its looking like closer to 80 000 lbs lol. but beings that this thing has extra long grouser pads welded on (yes it sucked balls and i would not recomend it to anyone as i burned about 250 lbs of 7018 rods welding them on) and its not an lpg so theirfore only has 24" pads. anywhere this thing drives it makes 6" to a foot deep ruts. especially when its pushing stuff. so theirfore beings that i drive a toyota i kinda doubt that its doing more damage lol. oh and by the way a skid steer will go way more places than this dozer lol. i build fence as my main job and use a LS 190 new holland skidsteer with a chipper hammer to pound posts and i can go through almost anything. never had it stuck. even when i was digging out the D8 or the 953 when they were hoplessley stuck. and they get that way alot with the places we build fence lol. and cutting vineir walnut into firewood doesent sound like a very bright idea lol.:msp_confused:


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## rdangle (Feb 16, 2011)

I think its a good idea not to use the D8 ha I would recomend if you dont have one renting a pretty good sized stump grinder and taking off the tops of the stumps(if all you want to do is make if flat) or maybe even take it down a few inches below the surface and then just bury them. Its alot of work but better than messing up your walnut trees.


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## zogger (Feb 16, 2011)

*What you said*



TreeCo said:


> I believe your best bet if you want to spare the walnuts stress is to cut the smaller trees and brush with a chainsaw. You can 'paint' the stumps with straight Roundup using a paint brush....only the outer inch of the stump needs painting. You could also wait until the stumps re sprout and then spray the young sprouts with mixed Roundup. It may take a couple of years to kill some stumps this way. The roots will rot away eventually leaving decaying roots in the ground.....not the best for the walnuts.......but way better than yanking the small trees out which would also leave decaying roots in the ground PLUS damage living walnut tree roots.



--that's the best for those cull trees. I'd add hollow out or "bowl" the left over stumps so they accumulate dirt and water and rot faster. I cross hatch notch mine, knock a few of the pieces loose in the middle then, put a good amount of the local humus into it, so you get all the bacteria, then the following spring I spray them when they sprout with generic glyphosate. The expire fast, rot fast that way, not as fast as if they were ground down, but a lot less work. Ripping and tearing with some huge equipment is going to damage the adjacent saved trees real bad. I mean, all you have to do is go look someplace that has been beat on logged, look at the left over trees they left, especially if they bulldozed out the stumps.

Tree roots are as resilient to adjacent rot as above ground parts of the trees, given they haven't been cut or torn, and their bark structure remains intact. Ripping out stumps is going to beat on the saved trees roots as well, to some extent, which is a variable, but it will happen.

Anyone ever go back years later and look where you or some utility trenched near a tree? That side of the tree will show damage all the way up, plus is stunts growth because only the fine rootlets absorb moisture and nutrients, and it takes a long time for main roots that have been cut or torn to regrow equivalent spread and density rootlets.


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## 066logger (Feb 16, 2011)

TreeCo said:


> I believe your best bet if you want to spare the walnuts stress is to cut the smaller trees and brush with a chainsaw. You can 'paint' the stumps with straight Roundup using a paint brush....only the outer inch of the stump needs painting. You could also wait until the stumps re sprout and then spray the young sprouts with mixed Roundup. It may take a couple of years to kill some stumps this way. The roots will rot away eventually leaving decaying roots in the ground.....not the best for the walnuts.......but way better than yanking the small trees out which would also leave decaying roots in the ground PLUS damage living walnut tree roots.



thats what i did. although i wonder how long it will take the hedge to rot out beings that hedge fence posts last 50 to 100+ years lol. but that doesent matter if they are their. im just gonna take a junk chain out and go cut them all off low to the ground and call it good.


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## Frank Boyer (Feb 17, 2011)

Use a medium size LGP excavator with a thumb. One pass down the middle and all of the trees are gone.


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## 066logger (Feb 17, 2011)

Frank Boyer said:


> Use a medium size LGP excavator with a thumb. One pass down the middle and all of the trees are gone.


 
that would be a good idea. but really it wolnt hurt anything to leave the stumps. and we dont own an excavator. so then i hafto pay someone else lol.


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## beastmaster (Feb 18, 2011)

Drip line is a rule of thumb. Some trees can have a more extensive root system reaching beyond the drip line. Also tearing up soil near the walnuts can change soil propertys such as drainage and percolation, water retention and what not that may effect mature trees.
I don't know how sensitive walnuts are but some damage may not show up for years.


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