# Wood-Mizer sawmilling business



## Marklambert61 (Jun 24, 2008)

With the necessary investment (25K) could a Woodmizer sawmill be a profitable business?

What would could you charge to mill?

Do others charge by the hour or by the foot?


Just thinking.....


Mark


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## oldsaw (Jun 24, 2008)

Yes, it can be done. You aren't going to make a fortune, but if you work hard and keep looking for leads, you will make a living at it. Keep in mind that they are going to try to make it look easy. Running any business is never easy. Especially when most of your time won't be actually sawing, it will be looking for customers to earn you that living.

Mark


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## Bushler (Jun 25, 2008)

I pay $250/thousand b.f. to the mill owner that mills for me. I include my labor and log loader and a place to work too.

It will take a while for you to learn how to cut for quality, how to keep and maintain your saw, etc.

WoodMizer is an excellent mill.


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## Zodiac45 (Jun 25, 2008)

oldsaw said:


> Yes, it can be done. You aren't going to make a fortune, but if you work hard and keep looking for leads, you will make a living at it. Keep in mind that they are going to try to make it look easy. Running any business is never easy. Especially when most of your time won't be actually sawing, it will be looking for customers to earn you that living.
> 
> Mark



+1 Totally agree. As Bushler said you'll need to get the hang of it and learn too quickly "size up" the log, but you'll spend you're time selling your service and scaring up business.  I'd like to add that any lumber I buy is always from one of a couple of local sawyer's I have around here. It's better quality than big box for the same or less money.


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## MJR (Jun 25, 2008)

With the economy the way it is, I would hold onto the money. At least here, in up state NY there seems to be mills every where. I even saw a swing mill in Natural Bridge last weekend taking the kids out for ice cream. Think hard about all cost from health insurance to retirement (IRA). If think you can supply a local niche, go for it. Keep in mind, there is a big difference between living and surviving.


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## curdy (Jun 25, 2008)

Networking is going to be the way to go here IMO. Talk to anybody and everybody about what you're doing. You'll be amazed at who will let you know to talk to this guy, or...hey, you should call so and so.

One of the things I constantly remind myself of is the fact that there's absolutely no substitute for being extremely reliable, trustworthy, professional and hard working. Its pretty hard for people not to take notice when you practice those. (While I'm sure this is one of those 'Captain Obvious' statements, I think it was still worth mentioning!)

Are you planning on just sawing for hire, or are you going to sell some lumber as well? I think regardless, you'll want to get connected with as many of the tree guys in your area as you can. A lot of people don't know their options when it comes to custom sawing. 

Good luck!


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## Backwoods (Jun 26, 2008)

Take the time to sit down with someone you know who runs there own business (any type of business) and write up a business plan. 25,000 is not a whole lot for operating capital. You will need log handling equipment, hydraulics make it faster and easier but manual is cheaper in the short term. Do not quit your day job until you have a couple of years under your belt. There are slow times like fire season, winter and busy times as well. High FUEL cost and PORTABLE add up in a hurry. If you plan to buy logs, learn both the log and lumber market before buying your first log. There are a lot of unexpected costs out there, like the power head on your big ripping saw up and dies one day in the middle of a big job. Or the computer on your mill will not turn on one morning. Or a fire in your hydraulic box about totals your mill. OR, OR, OR you get the idea. “If you run 40 hours a week putting out the production that the mill sales people quote you.” Divide that in half at least two or three times and then you will have a more realistic production rate. Don’t for get that not all the lumber you mill will be high grade lumber.


curdy said:


> One of the things I constantly remind myself of is the fact that there's absolutely no substitute for being extremely reliable, trustworthy, professional and hard working. Its pretty hard for people not to take notice when you practice those. (While I'm sure this is one of those 'Captain Obvious' statements, I think it was still worth mentioning!)
> 
> 
> Good luck!



Curdy this is a very good quote

But when all is said and done, "Yes" you can make a living by running a portable sawmill service.


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## cantcutter (Jun 26, 2008)

Take heed of what backwoods said..... it's all very true. You will have to get pretty creative to make a go of it and it will not happen from the starting point. If you finance your mill there will be alot of months that it does not make its own payment. Even if you buy the most basic mill with no electronics to worry about stuff will break that you did not even know could. I spend some days driving back to town for parts and get nothing done.... Always buy spares when something breaks and stash them in your truck for the next time. 

The days of portable mills selling services at 250.00 a thousand are near an end. Most of us are on the hourly rate now and those who are not will be before long if they want to continue making money.


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## big daddio (Jun 27, 2008)

you've got some pretty good advise so far. i like to worked myself to death when i first got my wm. 40 or so hrs. loggin' during the week and custom sawin' on the weekend. bout turned my family against me. now i take my time, just about cut out the custom sawin. yeah, you need a good source for logs if you're gonna sell lumber [free is best]. and like they said: saw, saw and keep on sawin' to get that feel and be able to read a log. not advertising or nothin' but them's some good folks at wm and they'll help you get the feel of it if you decide to [if you're willin' to travel, i could use some help to get you started.............]


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## Marco (Jun 28, 2008)

problem with being portable is you may have a hard time collecting for a job from some folks unless you have a prepay arrangement.
My mill is on concrete and piling, does not move. Logs come to my yard and get sawed, the lumber will remain on MY yard until job is paid for.


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## Bushler (Jun 28, 2008)

CantCutter, how much/hr do you charge? Does that include set up and tear down?

As mentioned, I provide a 941 Cat w/forks to feed the hot deck, and I also park it next to the off bear for packing away slabs. Plus, I usually have one more person to help the miller.

I'm actually paying a lot more than $250/thou. if you include the helper, and the equipment.


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## cantcutter (Jun 28, 2008)

Bushler said:


> CantCutter, how much/hr do you charge? Does that include set up and tear down?
> 
> As mentioned, I provide a 941 Cat w/forks to feed the hot deck, and I also park it next to the off bear for packing away slabs. Plus, I usually have one more person to help the miller.
> 
> I'm actually paying a lot more than $250/thou. if you include the helper, and the equipment.



$44.00 an hour from the time I role up until the time I leave. I get payed at the end of the day, every day. I have had people on the phone say that I was too high and hang up, just to call me back a month or so later. I have had other people tell me that I don't charge enough and slip in an extra 50 at the end of the day..... That always makes a person feel good

My mill is not a high production model, if I had a faster mill and other equipment I would be doubling my rate.


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## Bushler (Jun 28, 2008)

If you're cutting hardwood, and doing a lot of hand work getting the logs on the machine the hourly rate is probably the way to go, and at $44/hour you're earing your money!

Other than an occasional myrtle we mill soft wood and usually mill between 2-3 thou. b.f./day. So, at $250/thou. he's doing better than $44/hour. His mill is pretty fancy, with hyd. everthing.


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## cantcutter (Jun 28, 2008)

Bushler said:


> So, at $250/thou. he's doing better than $44/hour. His mill is pretty fancy, with hyd. everthing.



I can't do 1000 bf a day. My mill is also all hydraulic, but I have no monthly payments, no labor costs. I do work for my money, but its at my pace.


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## Backwoods (Jun 29, 2008)

How to set a price is always a good question. It depends on what mill you run (production). What area you are in (local economy/competition). Are you portable or stationary (do they have to haul there logs to you and pick up the lumber). What your experience level is (quality/grade sawing/quarter sawing/ability to see what is in a log). 

I have been working with sawmills since 91 and run a LT-70 that I own out rite, and am completely portable. I charge $0.30 bft for all softwoods and $60.00 an hour for all hardwoods and other work. I work steady and do not take breaks, and eat my lunch at the control panel, if my mill breaks down, or needs adjusted I do charge for that time. I keep the extra charges to a minimum, but charge for damaged blades if they are real bad and will not sharpen out. I also charge mileage at $1.00 a mile for the mill and $2.00 a mile for the boom truck. I also give every customer a discount, whether it be no saw charge for damaged saw, or no mileage charge, or knock time off time, or not count a stack of wood for bft. I know I could charge more and get it, and with the fuel cost the way they are I may decide to at some point, but for now I plan to keep my rates where they are.

My insurance agent did not like that I have listed on my web site that I do demonstrations for local schools and donate the wood that I mill to them, so I got another insurance agent. You have stick by your values, and not let others tell you what, when, where, and how to run your business. However, if a customer wants a log cut a certain way then that is how I will cut it.


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## Marklambert61 (Jul 1, 2008)

*Thanks*

First I would like to thank all the team members who posted great advice.

I did it but i went small I went for a used wood-mizer LH30 power feed mill..

Just decided to get my feet wet before making a large investment...

Also pickup a JD 270 skid steer that should really help me as I been logging old school up till now.

Post some pic's tomorrow

Mark


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## oldsaw (Jul 1, 2008)

Marklambert61 said:


> First I would like to thank all the team members who posted great advice.
> 
> I did it but i went small I went for a used wood-mizer LH30 power feed mill..
> 
> ...



Smart way to do it. You don't lose your azz on used equipment like you can on new, also keeps your overhead down. The less money that you make going to pay for things that aren't you, the better off you will be. Although this rule is universal, once you are established, it changes a bit. When you are seeing a continuous return on your investment, you can be more comfortable spending more. You are in the experimental stages. A "30" is big enough to do some damage and leave you with a piece of that check at the end of the day.

Mark


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Jul 2, 2008)

Call up some tree services that do removals. I know some of the contractors at work just take the large logs and dump them if the customers don't want them. When i see a nice one i snag it and drag it home. Could be a good way of getting a few free logs.


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## Backwoods (Jul 2, 2008)

The skid steer was a good investment.
I hope you have lots of room for a milling sight, logs, and lumber. 
Do not rush out and buy logs, the free logs will find you soon enough.


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## unclebryan (Jul 8, 2008)

*Free advice...*

I have had a Wood-Mizer LT40 Super Hydraulic for ten years now. It's got the 35 horse Wisconsin motor. It spends most of its time at the home/business of a friend who has a tree service. See where I'm going here? He supplies me with all the logs I could possibly want. As a matter of fact, he's about ready to retire and he wants me to buy out his tree business. I digress. You should call a few tree guys and suggest a symbiotic relationship such as I have with my friend Larry. I get logs - he gets lumber. One hand washes the other. 

It's a good thing that you have a nice log mover. We soon found out that you need something to move the logs around so we found a used (and I mean USED!) forklift. It's an old International diesel that's one of those that's like a tractor with the seat turned around. A sizeable truck is nice to have too. I have an F350 dually with a 12-foot bed. It doesn't dump but I wish it did. 

I charge 30 cents a bf with help. 35 solo. 40 bucks an hour for unusual stuff like quartersawing or cedar. 

I'm currently building a solar dry kiln. They come in handy with the woodworker clients. You may want to invest in a moisture meter. Always wear eye protection, hearing protection, and steel toes. You'll find that the most dangerous part of your work is off-bearing the big old boards. You're gonna smash your fingers. Deal with it. :censored: 

If you don't already have a good chainsaw you'll need to get one. You'll be trimming big logs so that your cutting head will clear. You'd also be well advised to get a good chain sharpening rig for the workbench. And you may want to start making your own chains. Get the chain breaker and rivet spinner and start buying chain in bulk. 

One more thing: If you don't heat your home and/or shop with wood, you should. You'll have plenty lying around! 

Good luck with your new business!


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