# Cutting in the wind. When do you guys call it?



## bitzer (Oct 13, 2011)

Cutting yesterday afternoon with a pretty steady 10-15mph wind with occasional 20-25mph gusts towards the end of the day. I was able to play with most of them, but this one got away from me. I had it almost cut up and a gust took it from me. Pissed be off, wuda made a nice Ash log.

So when do you guys call it or when is it called for you?






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## Oldtimer (Oct 13, 2011)

I stop when debris starts falling from the canopy.

BTW, not to be a ####, but that split because A: the notch was too shallow, B: you should have bored the heart out some, and C: it wanted a fast back-cut the way you had it notched.

I shoot for 1/3 of the diameter for depth of the notch, and always bore any tree with a log, even pine- but pine only a bit. I also side-cut about 1" on pine, and as much as I can get away with on hardwood. Too greedy with the side-cut = a pinched blade.


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## Gologit (Oct 13, 2011)

I usually make my own decisions about the wind and there's no hard and fast rule. If the wind is steady and I can make the lead I'll cut in quite a bit of wind. Sometimes moving to another strip or the other side of a ridge or canyon might make a difference.

But if it's real gusty and the wind doesn't favor the lead or even quarter it I'll usually make an early day of it. It's spooky to be backing up a big one and have it start to rock on the wedges. When I get caught like that I'll usually double up the wedges when the tree rocks toward the face and watch it like a hawk. A fast cutting saw is good to have then but usually it's better to just bail out. If you're doubled up, and sawed up quite a ways, and it's rocking toward the face it's probably going to be alright. 

Watch for wind _changes_, too. If there's a storm approaching, in our part of the country anyway, you can usually count on the wind changing at least once.

You lose one every once in awhile, everybody does. That includes me. Just learn what you can from it and go on.


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## 2dogs (Oct 13, 2011)

I am usually cutting individual trees not strips or blocks. If the wind is steady and out of a favorable direction then I can use it as long as I maintain control. If the wind is gusty but in one direction then it is pretty much the same as a steady wind but needs alot more attention to detail and like Bob said a fast cutting saw is a must. A moving front or swirling winds or down drafts mean I pull out till the winds calm.

How about lightning, snow, hail, hard rain? When do you pull the plug or better yet not even get out of bed?


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## Humptulips (Oct 13, 2011)

Gusty is the worst. One of the scariest moments of my career was when a gust took the top out of a tree backwards when I was topping it. About a 30 incher at 80 feet. Kind of knew I shouldn't be trying to top it but the rigging crew was pushing me and the tree really needed topped to use it. The back was starting to open when the gust closed it up and right on over. Lucky white fir breaks off easy.


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## Gologit (Oct 13, 2011)

2dogs said:


> How about lightning, snow, hail, hard rain? When do you pull the plug or better yet not even get out of bed?


 
Lightning? Nope. All the rest? Sometimes there isn't any choice, you just gut it up and keep working. When you're real young it's a big adventure and it gives you a sense of pride and accomplishment. When you're my age it's a major pain in the ass and it gives you bronchitis.
Gotta admit though, my favorite way of dealing with bad weather is with a cup of hot coffee, watching it on TV.


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## madhatte (Oct 13, 2011)

I follow a "three branch" rule. When it's windy enough that big heavy branches are falling, I consider one to be chance, two to be a warning, and three time to go. As soon as the third biggun hits the ground, I'm outta there.


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## Sport Faller (Oct 13, 2011)

Gologit said:


> Lightning? Nope. All the rest? Sometimes there isn't any choice, you just gut it up and keep working. When you're real young it's a big adventure and it gives you a sense of pride and accomplishment. When you're my age it's a major pain in the ass and it gives you bronchitis.
> Gotta admit though, my favorite way of dealing with bad weather is with a cup of hot coffee, watching it on TV.


 
Cantore Stories on the weather channel is the stone cold nuts


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## bitzer (Oct 13, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> I stop when debris starts falling from the canopy.
> 
> BTW, not to be a ####, but that split because A: the notch was too shallow, B: you should have bored the heart out some, and C: it wanted a fast back-cut the way you had it notched.
> 
> I shoot for 1/3 of the diameter for depth of the notch, and always bore any tree with a log, even pine- but pine only a bit. I also side-cut about 1" on pine, and as much as I can get away with on hardwood. Too greedy with the side-cut = a pinched blade.


 
Well then I'll not be a ####, A: it was a third, its a humboldt with a snipe on top. B: Yep I could have bored the heart out, but the wind was really starting to rock and I didn't want to lose it altogether. C: there was very little wood left to cut, but a gust took it. Chain was ready to be changed after this tree and I was back-barring. Boring every tree is NOT a necessity. I wasn't asking for a diagnosis. Thanks for the lesson. Make sure you break your straps with a wedge too while you're at it. Keep yer blades sharp.


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## bitzer (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks for the replies from the rest of you boys! Yeah I kinda figured it was all gut. Tomorrow lookin at steady 20-25mph with 35mph gusts. Hopefully it won't be too bad early. Thanks again!


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## RandyMac (Oct 13, 2011)

I used to drop the iffy ones early, before the breeze comes up. I had a few of those rockers and played finger roulette popping extra wedges in. 
BitzerBob, PM me your mailing addy.


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## floyd (Oct 14, 2011)

I don't even go into the woods when it is blowing.

I try not to give advice based on a picture.


I like it when I can laugh when one goes 180 from where I was putting it. The wind does that sometimes.

Sometimes it isn't the wind's fault.


Does this site have an ignore feature? One site I look at puts"You have chosen to ignore this poster". I do not use it often but it is a nice feature.


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## RandyMac (Oct 14, 2011)

Yes Floyd there is that very feature. Click on the offender's name, when you get to their page, on the left you will see "put on ignore list"

floyd 
Senior Member





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## floyd (Oct 14, 2011)

Thank you? Thank you very much


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## Oldtimer (Oct 14, 2011)

bitzer said:


> Well then I'll not be a ####, A: it was a third, its a humboldt with a snipe on top. B: Yep I could have bored the heart out, but the wind was really starting to rock and I didn't want to lose it altogether. C: there was very little wood left to cut, but a gust took it. Chain was ready to be changed after this tree and I was back-barring. Boring every tree is NOT a necessity. I wasn't asking for a diagnosis. Thanks for the lesson. Make sure you break your straps with a wedge too while you're at it. Keep yer blades sharp.


 
lol...
Awful fancy tricks to end up with a split tree. Sorry I offered unwanted advice.. Obviously you know it all already.


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## mingo (Oct 14, 2011)

The straight grain in ash make it one of the easiest woods to split. I think you have to go by your gut what one man thinks is to windy another it won't even phase at all. Anybody who has cut a fair amount of wood has had that happened to them. It's always easy to would of, could of, should of after the fact.


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## Gologit (Oct 14, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> lol...
> Awful fancy tricks to end up with a split tree. Sorry I offered unwanted advice.. Obviously you know it all already.


 
What, you've never had a tree 'chair on you? You've never made a mistake? Never did something really dumb, got away with it, and learned something from it? Most of us have done all that. You must be special.

You remind me of the soldiers that, after the shooting stopped, would run onto the battlefield and bayonet the wounded.


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## Samlock (Oct 14, 2011)

There is species I don't like cut in the wind: Alders, aspen, ash. Or any deep frozen softwood either. 

Small timber is more painful to cut in the wind.

One way to estimate wind is to watch ravens. They look a bit shabby and clumsy, but they're actually very skillful fliers. They'll fly while the other birds choose stay on the ground. When a raven can still "row" up wind, it's OK to cut timber.


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## floyd (Oct 14, 2011)

Yup, ignore works. I like it.


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## s219 (Oct 14, 2011)

I sort of think all bets are off when it's windy. Even the best planned cuts can go wrong. In this case, the BC wasn't caused by poor cutting, it was caused by wind that came along and loaded the tree before the cutting was completed. That could happen to any of us on any cut.


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## coastalfaller (Oct 14, 2011)

My two cents..............ultimately it comes down to each guys comfort level and experience. I have some guys who are wind warriors and others who head to the crummy when it starts picking up. You can't push a guy to go past his comfort zone in the wind. 

One thing to consider is we don't have eyes in the back of our heads, when it starts picking up, you don't know what's happening behind your back. Snags and trees in general, sometimes have eyes. Case in point. There was a crew of fallers working in a setting, the wind picked up and they all decided to head for the crummy. The bullbucker gave them grief and called them chicken ****'s. He said fine, they'd have to sit in the crummy and wait for him, 'cause he wasn't stopping. So they did. They watched him get nailed by a tree from behind. Dead on the spot, nothing they could do.


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## t3ramman (Oct 14, 2011)

Not to completely go off subject but what is that big black blob in the middle of the pic. Is that just a fault with your camera or was there some thing on the lens or is it something all together different.


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## bitzer (Oct 14, 2011)

Old timer- If I knew it all I wouldn't be here. I just wanted to pose the question with my pic as evidence. As soon as the tree chaired, I ran through the list of should ofs. You often come off as a #### in your posts. Thats fine, I'm sure I come off as a #### as well, and my sarcasm does not come through the internet well. Maybe I've missed it, but I've never seen pics of your work. Thats fine as well. I don't need too. Really nothing fancy in those cuts. You have your way, I have mine. I'll critique your work if I see it. I'm no cowboy, but I'm no doorknob either. 

Wind is blowing steady 20-25 today with some real good gusts. When my truck was getting pushed around on the highway out to the job I knew I was not cutting today. 

Good story coastal- Stuff shakin out of the tops scares me the most. You have some control over the tree. 

The black spot is an evil spirit that continues to haunt me. Its name is debt.


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## Oldtimer (Oct 14, 2011)

Gologit said:


> What, you've never had a tree 'chair on you? You've never made a mistake? Never did something really dumb, got away with it, and learned something from it? Most of us have done all that. You must be special.
> 
> You remind me of the soldiers that, after the shooting stopped, would run onto the battlefield and bayonet the wounded.


 
Sure I have. 
However, I haven't split a money tree in years.
Which is why I offered my advice. 
Some guys are too sensitive to just take it for what it is though, gotta get pissy, use the ignore feature...every forum has them.


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## Oldtimer (Oct 14, 2011)

bitzer said:


> Old timer- If I knew it all I wouldn't be here. I just wanted to pose the question with my pic as evidence. As soon as the tree chaired, I ran through the list of should ofs. You often come off as a #### in your posts. Thats fine, I'm sure I come off as a #### as well, and my sarcasm does not come through the internet well. Maybe I've missed it, but I've never seen pics of your work. Thats fine as well. I don't need too. Really nothing fancy in those cuts. You have your way, I have mine. I'll critique your work if I see it. I'm no cowboy, but I'm no doorknob either.
> 
> .


 Never look to make enemies here. My bad for starting it.


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## Oldtimer (Oct 14, 2011)




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## Metals406 (Oct 14, 2011)

bitzer said:


> Old timer- If I knew it all I wouldn't be here. I just wanted to pose the question with my pic as evidence. As soon as the tree chaired, I ran through the list of should ofs. You often come off as a #### in your posts. Thats fine, I'm sure I come off as a #### as well, and my sarcasm does not come through the internet well. Maybe I've missed it, but I've never seen pics of your work. Thats fine as well. I don't need too. Really nothing fancy in those cuts. You have your way, I have mine. I'll critique your work if I see it. I'm no cowboy, but I'm no doorknob either.
> 
> Wind is blowing steady 20-25 today with some real good gusts. When my truck was getting pushed around on the highway out to the job I knew I was not cutting today.
> 
> ...


 
:hmm3grin2orange:

Thanks for the new sig line Bitz!


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## Gologit (Oct 14, 2011)

*Old Timer*

Those were great pictures. Now lets see some of you with a saw...and cutting.


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## coastalfaller (Oct 14, 2011)

coastalfaller said:


> My two cents..............ultimately it comes down to each guys comfort level and experience. I have some guys who are wind warriors and others who head to the crummy when it starts picking up. You can't push a guy to go past his comfort zone in the wind.
> 
> One thing to consider is we don't have eyes in the back of our heads, when it starts picking up, you don't know what's happening behind your back. Snags and trees in general, sometimes have eyes. Case in point. There was a crew of fallers working in a setting, the wind picked up and they all decided to head for the crummy. The bullbucker gave them grief and called them chicken ****'s. He said fine, they'd have to sit in the crummy and wait for him, 'cause he wasn't stopping. So they did. They watched him get nailed by a tree from behind. Dead on the spot, nothing they could do.


 
Forgot to mention, sometimes, in regards to the wind warriors, it has to be called for them. Otherwise they might keep going! If a greener guy happens to be working with a guy who can handle the wind it can also be a bad scenario. I've found the guy looks over at his partner, sees him working still, doesn't know better or feels pressured to keep going too and ends up ****ing things up or worse.


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## Oldtimer (Oct 14, 2011)

Gologit said:


> Those were great pictures. Now lets see some of you with a saw...and cutting.


 
Why? Think I'm bullshyting you?
Will I have to put a secret code word on the saw so you know it's me?


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## Gologit (Oct 14, 2011)

coastalfaller said:


> My two cents..............ultimately it comes down to each guys comfort level and experience. I have some guys who are wind warriors and others who head to the crummy when it starts picking up. You can't push a guy to go past his comfort zone in the wind.
> 
> One thing to consider is we don't have eyes in the back of our heads, when it starts picking up, you don't know what's happening behind your back. Snags and trees in general, sometimes have eyes. Case in point. There was a crew of fallers working in a setting, the wind picked up and they all decided to head for the crummy. The bullbucker gave them grief and called them chicken ****'s. He said fine, they'd have to sit in the crummy and wait for him, 'cause he wasn't stopping. So they did. They watched him get nailed by a tree from behind. Dead on the spot, nothing they could do.


 
Good post. We lost a guy in the strip next to me the same way. We'd given up because the wind was against the lead and it was starting to get to where we couldn't hold them. We were packing out through his strip and he was still cutting. We hollered at him and he just laughed and gave us a whole ration of crap for being light-weights and that he'd just cut a couple more before he bagged it. He only got one more tree. A big fir went sideways on him, clipped a snag, and that was it.


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## coastalfaller (Oct 14, 2011)

Gologit said:


> Good post. We lost a guy in the strip next to me the same way. We'd given up because the wind was against the lead and it was starting to get to where we couldn't hold them. We were packing out through his strip and he was still cutting. We hollered at him and he just laughed and gave us a whole ration of crap for being light-weights and that he'd just cut a couple more before he bagged it. He only got one more tree. A big fir went sideways on him, clipped a snag, and that was it.


 
Right back at ya, Bob. Yeah, it's the ****'s when that happens. I think we've all been guilty of that at one time or another, I know I certainly have! Too much pride to call it myself! I know better now.


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## Gologit (Oct 14, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> Why? Think I'm bullshyting you?


 
I don't know if you are or not. And if it sounds like I'm calling you out...I am. We might be a little more inclined to take some of your advice if we knew it came from first hand experience. You know how it is around here...lots of wannabes and armchair experts. Pictures of skidders and cold decks don't really tell us much.

Most of us out here don't cut hardwoods much but we get them occasionally. A few pictures of you showing us some of your technique might be valuable. I'm always up for learning new stuff.

So, post up a few pictures of Oldtimer doing some falling. Or not...your choice entirely.


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## Oldtimer (Oct 14, 2011)

Gologit said:


> I don't know if you are or not. And if it sounds like I'm calling you out...I am. We might be a little more inclined to take some of your advice if we knew it came from first hand experience. You know how it is around here...lots of wannabes and armchair experts. Pictures of skidders and cold decks don't really tell us much.
> 
> Most of us out here don't cut hardwoods much but we get them occasionally. A few pictures of you showing us some of your technique might be valuable. I'm always up for learning new stuff.
> 
> So, post up a few pictures of Oldtimer doing some falling. Or not...your choice entirely.



Dang. Busted. Total poser, that's me. I lifted those pictures from a photobucket search.
And besides all that, this crew here takes serious offense at being told or shown anything.
And besides *that*, the whole world knows an east coast "logger" could NEVER show a west coast logger anything he didn't already learn in kindergarten.


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## slowp (Oct 14, 2011)

coastalfaller said:


> Forgot to mention, sometimes, in regards to the wind warriors, it has to be called for them. Otherwise they might keep going! If a greener guy happens to be working with a guy who can handle the wind it can also be a bad scenario. I've found the guy looks over at his partner, sees him working still, doesn't know better or feels pressured to keep going too and ends up ****ing things up or worse.



I kind of did that once. I was looking around at the units thinking it was too windy for anybody to be cutting, and there he was. The guy was out there alone and cutting. The wind was howling. I walked over and asked where everybody else was..."Oh, they went home." I asked why he didn't go home too. "I need the money." It was time for me to give a lecture. I pointed out that everybody else had gone home because of the wind, wasn't that a hint? Then put in the clincher, yeah, your family needs you alive to bring in the money in the future too. He thought, put his saw on his shoulder and left. The wind was really howling that day. I think I left too.


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## Gologit (Oct 14, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> Dang. Busted. Total poser, that's me. I lifted those pictures from a photobucket search.
> And besides all that, this crew here takes serious offense at being told or shown anything.
> And besides *that*, the whole world knows an east coast "logger" could NEVER show a west coast logger anything he didn't already learn in kindergarten.


 
Now, now. No need to bust a gasket. Just show us a few pictures of yourself cutting in a logging environment. Videos would be good, too. As soon as you get over your hissy fit, that is.


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## Gologit (Oct 14, 2011)

slowp said:


> I kind of did that once. I was looking around at the units thinking it was too windy for anybody to be cutting, and there he was. The guy was out there alone and cutting. The wind was howling. I walked over and asked where everybody else was..."Oh, they went home." I asked why he didn't go home too. "I need the money." It was time for me to give a lecture. I pointed out that everybody else had gone home because of the wind, wasn't that a hint? Then put in the clincher, yeah, your family needs you alive to bring in the money in the future too. He thought, put his saw on his shoulder and left. The wind was really howling that day. I think I left too.


 
Ya done good.


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## Oldtimer (Oct 14, 2011)

Gologit said:


> Now, now. No need to bust a gasket. Just show us a few pictures of yourself cutting in a logging environment. Videos would be good, too. As soon as you get over your hissy fit, that is.


 
I am not a logger. I am a Starbucks Barista posting from "occupy wall street" in New York.

You owe me a living, rich fat cat.


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## slowp (Oct 14, 2011)

Time for a time out.
Let me see, I should say to both or more of you,

_Boys, don't get your panties in a bunch_. Now group hug. Please.


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## Gologit (Oct 14, 2011)

slowp said:


> Time for a time out.
> Let me see, I should say to both or more of you,
> 
> _Boys, don't get your panties in a bunch_. Now group hug. Please.


 
That's it! Enough! I'm canceling your subscription to NPR.


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## Sport Faller (Oct 14, 2011)

slowp said:


> Time for a time out.
> Let me see, I should say to both or more of you,
> 
> _Boys, don't get your panties in a bunch_. Now group hug. Please.


 
speaking of group hugs

As my brother and I were growing up we fought more and more, finally my Dad had enough and bought 2 pairs of boxing gloves, whenever we went over to his house and started squabbling the gloves came out and the backyard was like Madison Square Garden, after a little bit of that we both had enough and are best buds


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## 056 kid (Oct 14, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> Sure I have.
> However, I haven't split a money tree in years.
> Which is why I offered my advice.
> Some guys are too sensitive to just take it for what it is though, gotta get pissy, use the ignore feature...every forum has them.


 
You have not slabbed a money tree in years because timber is the size of large shrubs in New Hampshire. . .


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## forestryworks (Oct 14, 2011)

My last day falling in Okiehoma before I got laid off was a windy SOB.

Skidder driver wanted the timber "straight down the hill."

I asked, what about quartered or sidehilled?

"No. straight down the hill so I can back up to them."

Ok then.

First little patch goes well, all in lead.

Second patch, really going after the wedges on almost every tree.

Third patch, #### it, I'm outta here.

No sense in fighting the wind and wedging EVERY tree.


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## mingo (Oct 15, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


>


 
That's some nice looking pine. I like the bridge too.


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## Rounder (Oct 15, 2011)

bitzer said:


> Cutting yesterday afternoon with a pretty steady 10-15mph wind with occasional 20-25mph gusts towards the end of the day. I was able to play with most of them, but this one got away from me. I had it almost cut up and a gust took it from me. Pissed be off, wuda made a nice Ash log.
> 
> So when do you guys call it or when is it called for you?
> 
> Depends on how much you had to drink the night before, whether or not a hunting season is open, etc..........Lots of important factors to consider.......- Sam


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## Oldtimer (Oct 15, 2011)

mtsamloggit said:


> Depends on how much you had to drink the night before, whether or not a hunting season is open, etc..........Lots of important factors to consider.......- Sam


 Or if you have a couple love starved fat girls waiting for you back at camp...


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## bitzer (Oct 15, 2011)

It takes a lot to piss me off. No time or patience for it. I could give a #### about words, but I don't have a problem throwing something back if I need too. A guy could be dead in 5 minutes, I like to keep moving.

Too windy to cut again today, but I got my shiny new tensioner and new fan belt back on my rig! After 2.5 days of no wood moving. Lots of cussin in the mud and greasy finger nails. Finally filling up the landing again with two loads to go out monday if the rain holds off. Keep movin. 

Sam, I'm gonna start on one of those liquid variables right now!


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## Sport Faller (Oct 15, 2011)

bitzer said:


> It takes a lot to piss me off. No time or patience for it. I could give a #### about words, but I don't have a problem throwing something back if I need too. A guy could be dead in 5 minutes, I like to keep moving.
> 
> Too windy to cut again today, but I got my shiny new tensioner and new fan belt back on my rig! After 2.5 days of no wood moving. Lots of cussin in the mud and greasy finger nails. Finally filling up the landing again with two loads to go out monday if the rain holds off. Keep movin.
> 
> Sam,* I'm gonna start on one of those liquid variables right now*!


 
Count yer old Uncle Jake in, havin Breakfast for dinner and plenty of rum and coke


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## slowp (Oct 15, 2011)

I shall have to check the supplies, I'm thinking Marguerita. I am afraid the Pancho Villa is gone so may have to do something else.


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## Sport Faller (Oct 15, 2011)

slowp said:


> I shall have to check the supplies, I'm thinking Marguerita. I am afraid the Pancho Villa is gone so may have to do something else.


 
What are you workin with Patti?

I might not be good at a whole helluva lot but I can infact mix up a drink and get creative


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## Rounder (Oct 15, 2011)

Sam, I'm gonna start on one of those liquid variables right now![/QUOTE]

Now ya gbt the right idea....you'll have the mental straightened out in no time. Party time.


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## slowp (Oct 15, 2011)

bigskyjake said:


> What are you workin with Patti?
> 
> I might not be good at a whole helluva lot but I can infact mix up a drink and get creative



That's OK, I am now out of the mood. We used up the Pancho Villa when there was a small apres' huckleberry picking here. I'll put it on my shopping list.


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## Sport Faller (Oct 15, 2011)

slowp said:


> That's OK, I am now out of the mood. We used up the Pancho Villa when there was a small apres' huckleberry picking here. I'll put it on my shopping list.


 
oh, well, that's cool. I'll drink your share


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