# Newbie with a saw, need advice so I don't hurt myself



## Sid Post (May 29, 2010)

I'm using a friend's Stihl 026 saw to clear some trees and realize I don't really know what I am doing and I'm probably not doing it safely.

My friend felled most of the trees tearing our barn apart. However, there is a bunch of downed stuff now that I'm working with. Limbs run 4 to 6 inches diameter on average and trunks run over 12 inches.

I looked for a FAQ type of thing for basic education and safety but, I missed it if this site has one. I have good hearing protection and normal gloves. Crawling through the downed stuff with an idling chainsaw got me to thinking I probably need more then a pair of blue jeans and long sleeve shirt in case something bad/stupid happens.

I would appreciate a link to a post or FAQ somewhere, or if none exists comments in this thread, about what safety equipment I should buy (assuming I will get it from Bailey's a site sponsor). I also need some basic cutting advice to deal with a pinched saw bar, cutting against the ground, etc.

Thanks In Advance,
Sid


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## ropensaddle (May 29, 2010)

Sid the PPE police will and should be all over this. Since your basically learning as you go, chaps and forearm kevlar is a must. Hard hat and remember it is the upper ninety degree quadrant of the bar that causes kickback. If you get bar pinched from not reading tension properly plastic felling wedges are invaluable and usually one driven in near bar will free saw. I am sure you are going to be bombarded with other suggestions so I will leave some for the police to have their say:monkey:


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## canopyboy (May 29, 2010)

If you're familiar with Bailey's already, get yourself some chaps and a helmet with the ear muffs and face shield. Steel toed boots are good too. Make sure when you're moving around through the limbs you engage the brake on the saw, and don't release it and start to cut until you're comfortable with solid footing. A lot of the saw manuals have basic safety FAQ stuff. Is your friend still available to show you some stuff? Tough to get it all through a forum. In fact there will be some people behind me that will probably tell you to walk away.

As for a pinched saw, trying to avoid it in the first place is the best idea. Try to anticipate where the wood is in compression, and cut from the other side. If you have to cut through the compression side, use a wedge in the back of your saw kerf to hold it open if the diameter of the wood is big enough. If you do get it stuck, well it helps to have a second saw and a bunch of wedges. You'll eventually figure it out though. To avoid quickly dulling your chain by touching the ground with it, cut part way through and then roll it over and cut from the other side. In order to get it in rollable sizes, you may have to just cut very carefully in an area that looks safe (no rocks, maybe some other wood underneath.

You may also consider one of the books from Bailey's. To fell a tree has some basic stuff in there. There may be others as well. You might also find some stuff on youtube, but look for the ones with a guy in full PPE, not the one chugging a beer and then operating the saw one handed. I can't imagine you can't find some basic stuff googling too.

Be safe.


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## canopyboy (May 29, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Sid the PPE police will and should be all over this.



Yeah, let's see where this goes...

opcorn:


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## BuddhaKat (May 29, 2010)

Sid,

Welcome to the AS Forums. There is so much information here to help you, but it can be rather hard to find. I'll help with what I can.

First, as mentioned above, PPE is a must. PPE stands for personal protective equipment. I realize that for a novice, an investment into the proper PPE might be prohibitive, but if I may, I'd like to offer a visual of what you would deal with in the event of an accident. You can decide if it's worth the investment.







This kind of accident happens in a split second and you can not possibly react fast enough to stop it. A good pair of chaps will prevent this level of damage.

The next thing you can do is read this book. It is pretty much the bible on how to use a chainsaw. http://faculty.forestry.ubc.ca/ben#...llers_buckers.pdf"] WCB Fallers & Buckers.pdf

_Edit_: Whoops, I forgot that the stupid forum censor won't let the word d i c k appear in the forums. So, when you click on the link the book won't come up. However, if you look in the URL you will see that it has the word ben####son in it. Replace the #### with the word d i c k (no spaces).


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## Sid Post (May 29, 2010)

PPE police or not, that's why I am here asking the question. 

My motto on the motorcycle is "all the gear all the time". I recognized I was in over my head, stopped, came inside, and posted because I didn't want to end up looking like one of the swamp logger guys on the Discovery channel. 

Baily's on a modem connection is painful too. :censored:

In terms of cost, medical bills aren't cheap either. I think I'll try to skip the long term pain and suffering and go for something more immediately painful to my credit card. :help:

I did manage to see a Husqvarna helmet that looked good and has utility on the lawnmower , weed whacker, and tractor too (took a small limb to my face with a tractor mounted backhoe yesterday ... :bang Yes, I know ... stupid.

What should I be looking at in chaps and sleeves? What does something good cost (for a non-professional)? Regarding boots, I wear Timberland Pro Endurance work boots that have the steel footbed protection in them (I don't like getting nails, metal cuttings, cutting torch material in the soles of my feet).

In terms of gory pictures, I know what can happen. Motorcycle riders demonstrate that regularly with road rash being relatively mild moving on through to compound fractures and amputations for survivable incidents.

Please recommend some PPE options. What's a low, mid, high end brand/model and what does each cost? Where should I opt for the high end option and where would I go low end when money gets tight? The helmet was ~$45, what do chaps and sleeves cost? What else am I missing in PPE besides knowledge and experience?

Thanks everyone!
Sid


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## Sid Post (May 29, 2010)

canopyboy said:


> You might also find some stuff on youtube, but look for the ones with a guy in full PPE, not the one chugging a beer and then operating the saw one handed. I can't imagine you can't find some basic stuff googling too.



I generally don't take safety advice from someone who isn't sober or someone acting like a fool.

Dial up modems ..... :censored:


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## Bermie (May 29, 2010)

Wrap around chaps - Stihl, Huqvarna, Labonville - $90 - 120 ish
Helmet with earmuffs and face shield, various - $45 - $100
Steel toe boots...huge range
Snug fitting gloves - optional
Safety glasses - optional if you have a face shield

Keep the saw on your RIGHT side...
Move your feet to keep the saw on your right side when changing cutting angles 
When cutting with the saw on its side, stay out of the kickback zone.
Never stand over the bar
Stay out of the kickback zone
Watch for follow through, keep your feet and legs out of the potential path of follow through
Use the chainbrake when walking or when you take a hand off the saw to move something with the other
Stay out of the kickback zone
Keep the tip of the bar away from small twigs or other obstructions that will cause kickback
Learn to assess tension and compression in fallen timber
Try and anticipate what will happen when you start to cut, plan accordingly
Finish cuts from the tension side
Stay out of the kickback zone
Always hold the saw with two hands when cutting
Have a couple sharp chains ready to swap out when one gets dull
Learn to tear down the bar and chain and keep it all clean
Flip your bar when putting it back on after cleaning the bar or replacing chains
Learn to tension the chain properly after cleaning bars and replacing chains.

And finally...
Stay out of the kickback zone

And when you are done at the end of the day, clean the saw, air filter, bar groove, oil holes, sharpen or change chain, fill the gas and oil then sit down and have a


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## komatsuvarna (May 29, 2010)

I Dont know how good or bad it is, but Lowes has husqvarna helment and chaps. One very important thing is to watch that tip. When i first started using a saw a little bit(I was dangerous as hell) I did something really REALLY stupid, But I didnt know any better at the time. I was notching a 4x4 to fit in a stake pocket on a trailer. Holding the 4x4 with my left foot and cutting with the top of the bar toward it , I got to close to the end of the bar and ZIP, Right across my foot. I know its a really stupid mistake that i didnt know about. Anyway, I was wearing still toe boots, and the chain hit about 1 inch behind were the still stoped. It wasnt to bad though, 4 hours at the hospital and a few stiches later I was done, But it couldve been way WAY worse. 

Bottom line, It dont matter if you got the best personal protection made, You still need to be very careful.


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## Sid Post (May 29, 2010)

komatsuvarna said:


> Bottom line, It dont matter if you got the best personal protection made, You still need to be very careful.



Thanks! That's why I'm here. I want to learn the NEWBIE mistakes as fast as I can and spend my PPE money wisely. 

Learning to make more intelligent choices will allow me to recognize and avoid the "danger zone".


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## Uncle John (May 29, 2010)

Don't cut alone if you can help it.


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## ropensaddle (May 29, 2010)

canopyboy said:


> Yeah, let's see where this goes...
> 
> opcorn:



I am surprised good for them, this is their proper audience and they're actually possibly helping


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## ropensaddle (May 29, 2010)

Sid when bucking large trees you got to watch for roll. If your not careful you will have a ton on your leg in a short minute. Try to cut a little and then clear what you have cut to keep more clear footing opportunity for escape and just plain less tripping hazards. It is really common sense but many don't use much of it now a days


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## BuddhaKat (May 29, 2010)

One of the other things you might consider is a good set of cutting gloves. I get mine from Amick's. They're loaded with Kevlar. The left hand is the 2nd highest location for chainsaw accidents. Here's the link for the glove. http://www.amickssuperstore.com/LumberWorks_Chainsaw_Gloves_p/lumberworks chainsaw gloves.htm

All the PPE can get hot in the summer, but weigh it against the damage that could happen and you might find it's worth the discomfort.

In my company I have a hard and fast rule that can't be broken at any time. If you start a saw that has a chain on it, you will be wearing chaps, period, no exceptions, even for me.

I also have the Kevlar lined loggers boots from Labonville. http://www.labonville.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=79&idcategory=243 They're only $162 and are very comfortable. A real top quality boot. Remember to keep your feet out of the line of your cut though, no matter what.


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## Fireaxman (May 29, 2010)

See if this helps:

http://www.mytreelessons.com/Flash/ChainsawSafety/ChainsawUse.htm

There is a dial-up freindly version.


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## jefflovstrom (May 29, 2010)

BuddhaKat said:


> Sid,
> 
> Welcome to the AS Forums. There is so much information here to help you, but it can be rather hard to find. I'll help with what I can.
> 
> ...




' Shock and Aw'!
Jeff, CTSP#519


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## Sid Post (May 29, 2010)

Kingfisher said:


> Don't cut alone if you can help it.



I wish ... I was working on the tractor earlier and got a face full of hydraulic oil. That stuff burns the eyes.  I finally seem to have gotten it all washed off my body.

My friend is somewhere over the Pacific right now. As usual, I'm alone again. Dealing with whatever life sends my way.


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## Sid Post (May 29, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Sid when bucking large trees you got to watch for roll. If your not careful you will have a ton on your leg in a short minute. Try to cut a little and then clear what you have cut to keep more clear footing opportunity for escape and just plain less tripping hazards. It is really common sense but many don't use much of it now a days



Thanks again! I hear you on common sense. What I see as common sense is a mystery to many. With anything new, common sense does tend to grow over time though. 

I told my friend I wasn't ready for any of the big stuff that was standing. While I was away he felled it with his big saw and it was on the ground. I was concerned about the big stuff coming down and taking out our barn or crushing me so, he helped me with that.


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## Sid Post (May 29, 2010)

BuddhaKat said:


> All the PPE can get hot in the summer, but weigh it against the damage that could happen and you might find it's worth the discomfort.



:yourock: AGATT (All Gear, All The Time) 

My friends think I'm crazy riding my motorcycle in Arizona in full gear. Road rash hurts, and motorcycle spills only get worse - if you're lucky all you got was road rash.


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## Professor (May 29, 2010)

*Get help first!*

Sure buy all the PPE you can then find someone with experience to *SHOW* you how. 

Offer them a consultant's fee for a couple hours of their time. 

Some instruction will really help you while you are finishing the job in your new gear.


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## Sid Post (May 29, 2010)

Professor said:


> Sure buy all the PPE you can then find someone with experience to *SHOW* you how.
> 
> Offer them a consultant's fee for a couple hours of their time.
> 
> Some instruction will really help you while you are finishing the job in your new gear.



Sounds like a good plan. I think I need to buy the gear first. Right now I don't own a chainsaw so, I think I will ask at the dealership about classes or instruction. The other option might be an apprenticeship on a weekend or two with the commercial wood industry in TN.


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## komatsuvarna (May 29, 2010)

were you at in tn?


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## Sid Post (May 29, 2010)

komatsuvarna said:


> were you at in tn?



I'm staying in motels in Huntsville, AL until I buy a house in the Prospect and Ardmore area (south of Nashville, TN near the state line).


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## Saw Bones (Jun 7, 2010)

Lots of good advice on PPE. Safety should always be on your mind. Stop when you're tired. Accidents happen when you "just want to hurry and do this one more cut" then call it a day. Also be very careful with downed trees.
They can be under a lot of tension and spring back at you. You could be injured by the tree (or branch) itself or it could throw your saw back in your face. Think about every cut you make, what could happen, and position yourself accordingly. Have fun and be careful.

:greenchainsaw:


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## oscar4883 (Jun 7, 2010)

Outside of climbing, I find bucking, and especially limbing, to have the most potential for "dopey" mistakes. Like Rope said, watch for roll, limbs under tension,etc. Use the chainbrake when you move. Try to clear debris as you go. A sharp chain goes a long way towards eliminating kickback.


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## randyg (Jun 11, 2010)

Wow, looks like most has been covered. All good stuff. One thing that it sounds like your friend may have done is put trees on top of trees? Best is to cut branch that looks like it will come free of pile, set brake, set saw down, pull that branch out and place to side, repeat. You will quickly get very good at cutting only the ones that you can easily pull off the pile. Alternative is to cut something with unknown forces acting on it, and you either get pinched, or have something fly out and bite you. I hope that all made sense? Go S L O W . 
randy


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## dingeryote (Jun 11, 2010)

Good on ya for realizing that you were in over your head, and looking for info to keep from bleedin!!

Here's a catalog of good info.
Lots to read and download.
http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/php/library_card.php?p_num=0667 2C01

The best and most reliable resource is a Neighbor, buddy, or family member that ACTUALLY knows his stuff, and spending some time cutting with them.

Be carefull. I grew up using some methods taught to me that ain't exactly safe, and continued until somebody woke me up.
Just cuz some guy owns a Piano dosn't make him a Pianist...even if it is your Uncle or Dad.

Heck, picking brains of many of the experienced fallers and woods rats here is a good start. If somebody gives ya bum scoop, they will be called out immediately.

Good luck to ya!!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 11, 2010)

*Protect youself!*



dingeryote said:


> Good on ya for realizing that you were in over your head, and looking for info to keep from bleedin!!
> 
> Here's a catalog of good info.
> Lots to read and download.
> ...


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