# Why no timber fallers on ax men anymore?



## RUSHNBOBO

Has anyone noticed how you never see a timber faller on the program any more? 

Could be these possibilities: 

-- lack of interest [hard to believe]
-- safety, liability issues [idiots falling trees on themselves and suing the producers]
-- manufactures not wanting their product displayed in this venue [again, hard to believe]


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## luvatenor

RUSHNBOBO said:


> Has anyone noticed how you never see a timber faller on the program any more?
> 
> Could be these possibilities:
> 
> -- lack of interest [hard to believe]
> -- safety, liability issues [idiots falling trees on themselves and suing the producers]
> -- manufactures not wanting their product displayed in this venue [again, hard to believe]



Actually, because te show no longer has anything to do with logging! Pathetic.


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## roberte

maybe cuz showing timber killers might not be very politically correct


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## RUSHNBOBO

roberte said:


> maybe cuz showing timber killers might not be very politically correct



Ya would think that the Commies running these left wing cable shows would love the propaganda though. 

Enviro-hypocrites love to stomp on responsible loggers all the while living in stick built homes and consuming wood products in mass.


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## roberte

RUSHNBOBO said:


> Ya would think that the Commies running these left wing cable shows would love the propaganda though.
> 
> Enviro-hypocrites love to stomp on responsible loggers all the while living in stick built homes and consuming wood products in mass.



you would think, but its easier to show lowest common denominator cra...


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## Goose IBEW

The show has gotten off course so bad it isn't even funny. They are more worried about a pissing match than anything factual or educational. I'd love to see the model saws and specs on them as well as the fallers using them. I'd like to see an in depth look at a sky carriage as well, make, model, specs, who makes the engine..... They are more worried about filling one with gasoline to make a smoking mess than showing how it works. Shoot, I'd love to have an episode that shows off how the crummys are set up and what they carry around on a day to day basis.


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## roberte

Goose IBEW said:


> The show has gotten off course so bad it isn't even funny. They are more worried about a pissing match than anything factual or educational. I'd love to see the model saws and specs on them as well as the fallers using them. I'd like to see an in depth look at a sky carriage as well, make, model, specs, who makes the engine..... They are more worried about filling one with gasoline to make a smoking mess than showing how it works. Shoot, I'd love to have an episode that shows off how the crummys are set up and what they carry around on a day to day basis.



but they dont give a fig about what we would like to see.


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## echoshawn

Its got nothing to do with logging anymore... All about the (fake IMO) drama on the landing and in the rigging..
Loved to watch old Jay browning fall.... THAT was good stuff...


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## roberte

echoshawn said:


> Its got nothing to do with logging anymore... All about the (fake IMO) drama on the landing and in the rigging..
> Loved to watch old Jay browning fall.... THAT was good stuff...



when they actually showed him or dwayne doing it


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## roberte

templar said:


> Now he is a faller imo Dwayne I mean Jay too but Dwayne knows his stuff



the untelevised home version starts tommorow morning staring me, hack jackson


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## RUSHNBOBO

Drama sells on these shows whether real or manufactured. Demonstrating technique with experienced fallers isn't dramatic enough unless someone 'almost' gets killed. We in the industry would love to see more woods-modded pro-saws but would the average city dwelling consumer? 

Probably not. That's the market like it or not.


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## roberte

templar said:


> LMAO you got the bleep machine in working order?..........aw you gonna post it on you tube ....we'll all subscribe ......honest we will



the buzzer is in working order, but no you tube, sorry, its a live show. but if all the ones of want to come out....


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## Goose IBEW

echoshawn said:


> Its got nothing to do with logging anymore....
> Loved to watch old Jay browning fall.... THAT was good stuff...



Jay Browning is the man, talent and experience was beyond compare. The episodes with him falling timber were awesome. I also have respect for him taking a permanently disabled worker and putting him in the repair shop to fix saws. That shows character and compassion to me.


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## luvatenor

Goose IBEW said:


> Jay Browning is the man, talent and experience was beyond compare. The episodes with him falling timber were awesome. I also have respect for him taking a permanently disabled worker and putting him in the repair shop to fix saws. That shows character and compassion to me.



Forget about Browning-he has been replaced by a bare foot, spitting cajon -'Oh Man' -very sad that this show no longer has anything to do with logging.-I am willing to bet that real hard working pros like Browning, Pihl, ect. feel embarrassment with the way this show has gone!


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## RUSHNBOBO

templar said:


> I think that's why Mr Browning no longer participates could well be he saw the way it was going first hand (I mean the show) and got out......I guess other reasons too



This quote by Jay Browning says it all...

“I had to make a choice about whether I wanted to be a professional logging company or to basically stomp my integrity into the ground,” Browning said. 

“The one thing that I don’t like to see is that the show has taken on a whole different direction of guys fighting and arguing and all of this screaming and yelling, all of this cussing, to me makes us look like we’re a bunch of Neanderthals.

“It makes it look like this profession has never evolved since Day 1. Things change all the time in this industry as far as equipment and efficiency and safety. 
And logging companies like me, I’ve been in this business for 30 years, we should have 10, 15 fatalities. We don’t have a one.

“We do have a guy who lost a leg, but we’re pretty proud that we don’t have any fatalities. And sometimes I feel that the camera crews or the production people are just waiting for someone to get killed. There always wanting more and more out of us. And we just want to show people some of the interesting jobs we log. Because they’re jobs most people won’t take.

*“This show set us back 50 years.”*

--- Jay Browning


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## RUSHNBOBO

The AX MEN producers wont like this...

My husband is the "stud greenhorn" from Big Gun that has been edited and voiced over to be some kind of maniac. This show is as fake as any sitcom.

My husband was not fired, but quit. Ryan, the other greenhorn, did not stay at a camp site but shared a motel with us. 

My husband quit after 6 days of filming and was hired by a reputable logging company that would never be caught dead working with this show. 

The company was created SOLELY for this show. No company wold get hired or stay open for more than 5 minutes if the problems that happen on every episode actually happened. 

Yes, lines snap and people get hurt, but everything that happens on this show is created by the producer, at least at Big Gun. The producer was Arem and nearly got the entire thing shut down by creating such dangerous events.....

--- Amy Giorgi
Astoria, OR


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## RUSHNBOBO

templar said:


> Guess you no like the producers then .......think we all realize that the show is like all reality shows .....somewhat set up



I don't like TV shows which portray something to be true [without disclaimer] which aint. 

I don't like Oscar winning movies like ARGO which was touted by AFFFleck and Hollyweird as being "real" .... ummmm 75% of the movie NEVER happened, period. 

NO- Republican guard chasing anyone at the airport
NO- Republican guard questioning anyone at the airport
NO one ever said they wished not to take part in the faux movie
NO- Near riot at the open market [they never went there]
NO movie script saved anyone [they never needed it]
NO last second , barely made it, anything

The entire event was entirely un-eventful

Put a disclaimer on the show and all is good. Until then they can and should be exposed. This forum is public, more than just loggers read this. 

_What you are watching is a 'depiction of a real logging operation' some [most] of the events were scripted for entertainment purposes. 
_
I would still watch it. It's as funny as H e ll

If enough people speak the truth America wouldn't be as stupid as it is.


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## roberte

RUSHNBOBO said:


> The AX MEN producers wont like this...
> 
> My husband is the "stud greenhorn" from Big Gun that has been edited and voiced over to be some kind of maniac. This show is as fake as any sitcom.
> 
> My husband was not fired, but quit. Ryan, the other greenhorn, did not stay at a camp site but shared a motel with us.
> 
> My husband quit after 6 days of filming and was hired by a reputable logging company that would never be caught dead working with this show.
> 
> The company was created SOLELY for this show. No company wold get hired or stay open for more than 5 minutes if the problems that happen on every episode actually happened.
> 
> Yes, lines snap and people get hurt, but everything that happens on this show is created by the producer, at least at Big Gun. The producer was Arem and nearly got the entire thing shut down by creating such dangerous events.....
> 
> --- Amy Giorgi
> Astoria, OR



all this may be true, however someone signed a release to appear. And if anyone appearingon the show doesnt know that they might be set up in one fashion or another is lying to themselves


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## McCulloch1-52

Some People might get offended by cutting down trees may of something to do with it.


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## luvatenor

templar said:


> Now he is a faller imo Dwayne I mean Jay too but Dwayne knows his stuff



Does anyone know where is Dwayne is or which company he is working for?


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## Metals406

luvatenor said:


> Forget about Browning-he has been replaced by a bare foot, spitting cajon -'Oh Man' -very sad that this show no longer has anything to do with logging.-I am willing to bet that real hard working pros like Browning, Pihl, ect. feel embarrassment with the way this show has gone!



Pihl isn't embarrassed. . . From what I'm told, his crew gets $4,500.00 per man, per episode -- to "Log" on the weekends for the show. The bulk of the filming isn't during the regular work week.

I imagine this is the same deal for everyone involved. But, you also have to sign away all editorial control of the content. . . Meaning they can make you look like an ass, and you can only count your money to make yourself feel better about it.

A UK company called one of our local ski resorts last year, wanting to make a reality show out of the instructors 'lives' and at 'work'. My buddy is an instructor and was super excited to see how they'd make the mountain look like Days of Our Lives -- But the shareholders and manager of the hill had other plans. They read through the agreement and declined the offer. They felt the producers would take advantage of "editorial control" and paint the resort in a bad light.

My buddy was bummed. . . But that manager was right, and smart for saying NO!

BTW, the timber fallers up there (AK) are contractors -- and a lot of them won't let them film them, as they want to be responsible for their own integrity. One of those shows could ruin you and your good name for falling timber right quick.


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## chainsawdad

*timber fallers*

I thought the same it would be nice to put in some falling they could set up some remote camera's if safety was the issue come on.


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## luvatenor

*Dignity and pride*



chainsawdad said:


> I thought the same it would be nice to put in some falling they could set up some remote camera's if safety was the issue come on.



So what is being said is that experienced professional loggers are willing to sell their dignity and pride for money. I am happy that Pihl and Browning are no longer part of this disgrace.


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## redheadwoodshed

templar said:


> Now he is a faller imo Dwayne I mean Jay too but Dwayne knows his stuff



How does a guest post? Coatsy dropped a few beetle trees. Even dropped one on Joe in the skidder. I'm sure THAT wasn't staged. Shelby makes it all worth watching, but I do like Joe and Coatsy.


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## armytaco

Think this is why Swamp Loggers is no longer on the air. I loved that show!


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## SS Sniper

roberte said:


> when they actually showed him or dwayne doing it



Dwayne was the better of the two, heck he was the best!


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## rocketnorton

RUSHNBOBO said:


> This quote by Jay Browning says it all...
> 
> “I had to make a choice about whether I wanted to be a professional logging company or to basically stomp my integrity into the ground,” Browning said.
> 
> “The one thing that I don’t like to see is that the show has taken on a whole different direction of guys fighting and arguing and all of this screaming and yelling, all of this cussing, to me makes us look like we’re a bunch of Neanderthals.
> 
> “It makes it look like this profession has never evolved since Day 1. Things change all the time in this industry as far as equipment and efficiency and safety.
> And logging companies like me, I’ve been in this business for 30 years, we should have 10, 15 fatalities. We don’t have a one.
> 
> “We do have a guy who lost a leg, but we’re pretty proud that we don’t have any fatalities. And sometimes I feel that the camera crews or the production people are just waiting for someone to get killed. There always wanting more and more out of us. And we just want to show people some of the interesting jobs we log. Because they’re jobs most people won’t take.
> 
> *“This show set us back 50 years.”*
> 
> --- Jay Browning



amen... haven't watched that #### for years for the above reasons, I too have worked w/ real loggers... a good crew watches each others backs, and most are good friends off site/job


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## Woos31

roberte said:


> the untelevised home version starts tommorow morning staring me, hack jackson


I know I'm a couple years late on this but Hack Jackson is hilarious!! His falling partner Dutch Dutchman


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## GlenJ

Because they care more about hyping up the fake drama, rather than the reality of logging.... Its just another Gold Rush... no mining all BS fake drama..


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## ChoppyChoppy

RUSHNBOBO said:


> I don't like TV shows which portray something to be true [without disclaimer] which aint.
> 
> I don't like Oscar winning movies like ARGO which was touted by AFFFleck and Hollyweird as being "real" .... ummmm 75% of the movie NEVER happened, period.
> 
> NO- Republican guard chasing anyone at the airport
> NO- Republican guard questioning anyone at the airport
> NO one ever said they wished not to take part in the faux movie
> NO- Near riot at the open market [they never went there]
> NO movie script saved anyone [they never needed it]
> NO last second , barely made it, anything
> 
> The entire event was entirely un-eventful
> 
> Put a disclaimer on the show and all is good. Until then they can and should be exposed. This forum is public, more than just loggers read this.
> 
> _What you are watching is a 'depiction of a real logging operation' some [most] of the events were scripted for entertainment purposes.
> _
> I would still watch it. It's as funny as H e ll
> 
> If enough people speak the truth America wouldn't be as stupid as it is.




On American Loggers it had a disclaimer to the effect that some events had been recreated... as in when the old timers talked about something happening in the past the producers made a "skit" to basically show how it went down.


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## ChoppyChoppy

The producers had got in touch with me 2 years ago wanting to film my operation. I told them the only way I'd remotely consider would be if I had final say on what made it on the show. They said that was "impossible". I told them to go look elsewhere.
In the end they pretty much got run out of town.



Metals406 said:


> BTW, the timber fallers up there (AK) are contractors -- and a lot of them won't let them film them, as they want to be responsible for their own integrity. One of those shows could ruin you and your good name for falling timber right quick.


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## A10egress

A lot of you guys are real loggers, some of us are simply hobby chainsaw/forestry people but I'm dang sure we could get together here and make a far better show. It would be entertaining but responsible, not wreckless BS


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## Woos31

Because falling timber has enough hazards in itself without some water head who has no clue what could happen asking said faller to mix some drama in there for the viewers. Ya know like fall a tree on an excavator, or at somebody. There's a lot of drama in it, people just don't know what's going on to know what all the factors are and how many ways to be killed there are. Also there could be A LOT of "drama being filmed of a bad situation materializing cuz the cutter ain't gonna be giving no dialog as to what's going on. He's going into shut the hell up, I need to hear, see, and feel everything mode cuz this could escalate real quick. Until the tree and all other projectiles hit the dirt does he turn and say "holy $hit, that was close to being a bad deal for all of us" and nobody knows the better. 

To someone watching it only a guy with a saw hacking down trees. For those who are one, aspire to be one, raised by them (me), married, related or whatever to a faller only then is it appreciated just "watching" a man with an instrument working his magic. Don't get me wrong I'm on the boat too in wishing they showed much more of the cutting, but they can only create so much staged drama with cutting. Not like pulling the tail tree over, knocking logs off the landing, throwing a log trailer off the landing with the shovel, or my favorite, zitter-nuts climbing up in a leaning tree to buck the same one he's in..........what the hell do you have to put in your cherrios to think that was a good idea......? Even for making TV.


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## 2dogs

ValleyFirewood said:


> The producers had got in touch with me 2 years ago wanting to film my operation. I told them the only way I'd remotely consider would be if I had final say on what made it on the show. They said that was "impossible". I told them to go look elsewhere.
> In the end they pretty much got run out of town.



Uh-hu. You said you cut firewood. Then you work at a saw shop. Then you own the saw shop. Now you own a logging company so big that Hollywood producers know about you? Bull.


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## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Uh-hu. You said you cut firewood. Then you work at a saw shop. Then you own the saw shop. Now you own a logging company so big that Hollywood producers know about you? Bull.




There's an easy way to check his story. We were approached too, but not by the producers. They used an agency to bird-dog companies that might be interested and then the producers would meet with those companies. The initial contact was always by the same agency.
You didn't get to meet with the production people until much later in the process.
If Valley Firewood can give us the name of the agency and the name of the person who contacted him maybe we can tell if this is a pipe dream or not.

Or...maybe he has all the loggers on IGNORE again and he won't even read this, let alone make a reply.


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## ChoppyChoppy

Meth.


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## Gologit

Okay, that explains a lot. You need to get off that stuff.


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## 2dogs

VF meth is suicide. Find the help you need. Please.


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## Hedgerow

I don't watch the show, but can only imagine the dumbassedness a production company could interject into something like the logging industry.

Oh, and it's a shame ole' VF is on meth..
That stuff will kill ya.


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## echoshawn

Explains the delusions of grandeur for sure


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## capetrees

Currently no different that Nosak Tree.


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## LittleLebowski

Is there a season in which they...actually work with timber? I tried the newest season, hoping my family could sit down and enjoy some axe/chainsaw work and it was awful, staged, and there was no timber work.


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## fubar2

They prefer to throw their chainsaws over using them so they probably don't run anyhow.


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## TBS

LittleLebowski said:


> Is there a season in which they...actually work with timber? I tried the newest season, hoping my family could sit down and enjoy some axe/chainsaw work and it was awful, staged, and there was no timber work.



first two seasons after that it's all down hill. I just stick to deadliest catch now, they still show people doing a very hard dangerous job. You can't stage almost an entire crew dying when a ship capsizes


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## MattG

I know this an old thread  but when did this series turn bad? I've only watched it recently in UK, by purchasing the DVDs from Amazon. My wife just got me series 3+4 and it still seems to be reasonably good.... I'm not sure wherever is as much actual timber falling as in the first two series... When did the falling stop?

EDIT:
Sorry I only just caught up with @Nathan lassley 's last post. So it looks like series 1+2 are the only ones with decent tree work (climbing and falling), and it goes downhill from there on


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## TBS

Once JM Browning, Pihl, and Dwayne Dethlefs, and Mike Pihl left is when it really went down. It stayed interesting because of Shelby but then they brought on zitterkopf for two or three seasons which just killed the show. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/ziddercough.291669/page-3


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## MattG

Nathan lassley said:


> Once JM Browning, Pihl, and Dwayne Dethlefs, and Mike Pihl left is when it really went down. It stayed interesting because of Shelby but then they brought on zitterkopf for two or three seasons which just killed the show.
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/ziddercough.291669/page-3


Well I'll probably not buy anymore than series 3-4.

I'm currently halfway through Series 3.... and it basically seems pretty good...as a show since I don't really watch any TV. Me and the wife find J and J Smith (the Aqua Loggers) absolutely hilarious....both of them seem quite sharp and the shouting matches are fun 

And yeah I find Shelby's swampland exploits pretty cool.

I guess that they stopped the falling because of insurance/risk etc. I remember in, was it series 2? the odd barber chair happening or nearly happening.....but I think that it's BS them stopping filming falling due to that. I mean logging is dangerous, period, show it like it is. And why the TV teams aren't prepared to take the same risks as the loggers is bad in my view....I mean plenty of journos go to war zones, and the odd stunt man/actor gets killed when things go bad....

Well that's my take....the TV teams just want a product where they can *sell loads of advertising space*....with *minimum investment *(i.e. pay+insurance) themselves


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## farmhard

roberte said:


> but they dont give a fig about what we would like to see.


They rely on ratings. The problem is 300 million people that can't add the 2 digits in their IQ and get a consistent answer. You would like a documentary based informative show relevant to a trade? Good luck with that. Boring as hell to drink and smoke meth to.


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## Wow

farmhard said:


> They rely on ratings. The problem is 300 million people that can't add the 2 digits in their IQ and get a consistent answer. You would like a documentary based informative show relevant to a trade? Good luck with that. Boring as hell to drink and smoke meth to.


That show has really became Theater. Like most of us true tree work without the drama would be nice.
Recently a friend flipped the TV on and a guy was felling. I could see part of the saw. Had a nice long bar. Chips were flying. I remarked ill bet that's a big Husqvarna he's using. The camera crew NEVER showed a clear picture of the saw. Just from the flash of Cream color my guess was it probably was a Sthil. I asked if there was anything on another channel. Who is watching that temper trantuam, my daddy can beat up your daddy crap?
I came up under a slave driving, yelling, cursing father. Really can't remember having a childhood. I've quit many jobs or beat ass for being yelled at. I went into business for myself to stay out of prison after at 22 years old I almost beat a 45 year old creep within an inch of his life. Bosses that abuse the help are stupid. I've worked 75 men at a time and never once lost my temper. But that kind of control don't come easy. I STILL have to work at it but ANGER is a weakness which can be controlled. Once a guy said, I hope I didn't make you mad. I said, you aren't strong enough to anger me. I understand mistakes. As long as you are honestly trying, we are cool. But be wise and don't purposely try my patience. I will not deal with, Yes but! It's either yes, or haul your butt. My inner peace means to much to me to let fools anger me. When they say, yes but, they are not listening. One of us is leaving. The crap on TV would make me dangerous to be around. Sadly the show isn't worth my time watching. Glad to see im not alone on this matter.


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## Husky77

templar said:
Now he is a faller imo Dwayne I mean Jay too but Dwayne knows his stuff

I live in uk and used to like watching the series, Dwayne was a good guy I would have worked with him. ok he may have had a few problems but if you dont know anyone with similar problems you probably havent lived. I was sad to see he has passed on, a sad day for sure.


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## Huskybill

What about our loggin crews that went to Russia to log there? What happened to that show? Siberia can show no mercy.


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