# So I was trimming this palm tree...



## mikewhite85

I was up in a large canary island palm almost 10 months ago to the day and while cutting out the dead fronds with a pole saw, a large frond (they seem to be about 10-12 ft long each), came down and stabbed me in the arm real good. If you are familiar with palms you know the spikes on those things can be BRUTAL.

Somehow I was able to descend the tree though I couldn't really use my arm. I am very fortunate the fire department didn't have to come with a ladder truck and get me out because it REALLY hurt. For about three weeks it was incredibly painful when I would clench my fist because I assumed a piece of the spike had hit a tendon or something. I couldn't work for at least a month. 

Anyway, right after it happened I went to the ER and the doctor took X Rays, dug around a little bit in my arm, and said there was not a foreign body in my arm. I went to another doctor a week or so later and he said the same thing.

After a few weeks I developed a large growing bump and recently noticed that a point was beginning to protrude from my arm. And tonight I started poking at it with tweezers and THIS CAME OUT:

I couldn't believe how big it was! I was in my arm for 10 months! It wasn't too comfortable so I was really happy when it came out.


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## treemandan

yeah you look pretty happy, I would be too. Are you saying that you went to two doctors and they both said there was nothing in there? I wouldn't be to happy about that. I would a least ask for my money back-lost wages?:monkey:


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## ClimbinArbor

HOLY CRAPS!

I pulled out a one incher that had been in my finger for a few weeks, and my goodness was it nice to pull that thing out. Ill bet it was like taking a thanksgiving constitution pulling that thing out...


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## lone wolf

that looks painfull


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## Bermie

I HATE canary island date palms!!!

Wow, that's just nasty...I would take those pictures and the thorn and go back to those doctors...they need a lesson in how to pay attention! Really, they need to see what they missed, you could have gotten a bad infection, in fact with all that redness, you probably got something going on now.

I have two thorns I've kept that had to be dug out of my arm. one went in straight into my elbow joint, aalmost came out the other side...I couldn't bend my arm, went to the ER, it took the doctor about half an hour to find it and dig it out. I was really lucky it missed everything vital, another doc passing by stopped in for a look and comented how fortunate it was the thorn missed the artery and the joint capsule...
The other one went in 'along the grain' in my forearm just under the skin. They hurt like hell to try and pull them out, I reckon they've got microscopic backward facing barbs or something.
Even just getting stabbed by them where they don't get stuck into you HURTS like a bugger for a long time after.

No to mention the dust and fibres and crap and bugs and invasive seedlings up in those big old heads...

Did I mention I HATE those palms???

I have a bid in to trim 10 of the nasty things...priced it high to include a bucket truck, and time off for ER visit!


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## ozzy42

Bermie said:


> I HATE canary island date palms!!!
> 
> 
> Did I mention I HATE those palms???
> 
> .priced it high to include a bucket truck, and time off for ER visit!



:agree2:
That is the only time I am glad to hear "Oh , my lawn man takes care of that tree".
 for the lawn man.


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## dingeryote

CRAP!!!!!!!!!:jawdrop:



I saw one of those things in a space movie once, be carefull with that thing!
Right after they erupt out of the skin they start spitting acid and eating peoples faces!



Bermie nailed it. Get back to the Doc and take that Vampire Killing stake with you, so you can ask the Doc what he would do if HIS doc had him running around for a year with it under his hide. He better offer free office visits for your lifetime as it would be cheaper than the obvious lawsuit.

He also better get you on some antibiotics...your arm is kinda looking nasty!

Good to hear ya got the thing out finally!


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Tree Pig

I am not one to promote frivolous law suits but it sounds like there may have been some needless pain and suffering involved there. two doctors twice the money.


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## EdenT

It would be fun to go and do some tree work at the two doctors house.

Drop a tree straight through their roof and then tell them 'there aint nothin there, come back and see me later, ding, next patient please!'

Seriously though, this is negligence, and you could have had life threatening complications from that. Those things are filthy. I don't think I have ever had a puncture from one that didn't become infected. From the look of your arm I would be seeing a doctor anyway. Some broad spectrum antibiotics might not be such a bad idea.


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## mikewhite85

I'm just glad to have it out!

The initial ordeal was quite a while ago and I honestly cant remember either of the doctors' names. One was at the ER in UCLA hospital and the other guy was a regular family doctor. I found him in the phone book and assumed he was really smart because his office was in a nice part of LA and his name sounded Indian. I don't blame them for not seeing the spike as it must have been very deep initially and my arm was all weirded out. The X-Ray obviously wouldn't have picked up a palm spike either. All that to say, I don't blame them for missing it.

Missing a month of work wasn't the worst for me because I am also a full time seminary student and it gave me more time to work on papers and exams that I needed to catch up on. I had a little money saved up as well, so in God's providence it worked out pretty well.

And I also share your hatred for palms. I actually removed one today but thankfully, I remain unscathed!


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## lumberjack333

Man that looks brutal, must have felt amazing when it finally poked out of there...


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## outofmytree

Man thats an ouch with a capital F!!!!

Dunno if it helps but when we prune _Phoenix canariensis_ we first cut the frond where it begins to "vee out". Then we remove the rest of the petiole which is where the worst thorns are. I hate the sensation of cutting a frond and then watching the SOB run down the polesaw towards me.

I am reasonably sure Date palms are the reason god invented petrol and matches.


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## treesquirrel

Wow!

Reminds me of an incident at a plant where I worked years ago. It was a plywood plant and after the shets of veneer went thru the dryers we had p-eop-0le yanking it off the belts onto carts. One guy yanked one and it slid along his thigh stabbing him with about a six inch long splinter. It looked like a knife sticking into his leg.


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## voxac30dude

we have these nasty spikey palms here called phoenix palms and they hurt like a Mother #####er. ouch!!!


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## Bermie

outofmytree said:


> ......I hate the sensation of cutting a frond and then watching the SOB run down the polesaw towards me....
> 
> .



For real mate!! 
...then the THUNK as it hits you and you peek out the corner of your eye to see the dagger sticking out of your anatomy...

Did I mention I HATE phoenix palms....


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## jomoco

Yeah, well there are obviously thousands of pros capable of pruning or removing date palms without getting impaled by them, even after pruning thousands of them for decades.

Brush up on your pruning techniques and put away the stupid polesaws!

Nothing about palms are easy, and date palms will separate the men from the boys real quick in my experience here in SoCal.

A pole saw to prune a date palm practically guarantees a trip to the hospital.

All you need is a sharp midsize chainsaw like a 262 xp husky, saddle and gaffs with a steelcore lanyard and the right technique.

Fan palms kill far more climbers here than date palms do.

jomoco


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## treevet

jomoco said:


> .
> 
> All you need is saddle and gaff
> 
> jomoco



We don't have any palms around here but seems unprofessional to dig holes in those trees.....do they look like this when you get through?


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## jomoco

I like the way you post examples of anything but an actual date palm TV, and offering opinions on trees you have no hands on experience with to boot.

Careful you don't get a date palm spike in yu TV!

jomoco


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## ROOTSXROCKS

Holy Crap, I can feel that ! 

I have had more than my share of all the phoenix I hate the suckers. 

I had one this summer that went right into my ankle , couldn't walk for three days, and even when they don't break off they hurt really bad. 

whats worse is even heavy wielding gloves or boots offer little protection they will pierce even heavy leather.

not sure an Xray would show them good thing is they do work there way back out eventually, unless its a heavy calous area and then you might have to lacerate it after it has decided to come back out. warning could be really gross.

Glad you got it out


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## ROOTSXROCKS

jomoco said:


> Yeah, well there are obviously thousands of pros capable of pruning or removing date palms without getting impaled by them, even after pruning thousands of them for decades.
> 
> 
> jomoco



Bull#### try your hand at a Phoenix reclinata with a chainsaw. without getting poked.
or for that matter a simple Phoenix roebelenii with hand clippers will get you if your not damn careful


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## mikewhite85

treevet said:


> We don't have any palms around here but seems unprofessional to dig holes in those trees.....do they look like this when you get through?



Definitely a fair point. The picture of the holes in the palm is pretty extreme though. Palms are the only trees I will ever climb with spikes for pruning. 

Unless you have a bucket truck, there isn't another safe way to do it. I have heard of people throwing a rope over the top of the palm, hitching it to the trunk of an adjacent tree, and using the SRT but I would be pretty afraid of cutting the rope.

Now that I think of it though, I have heard that you can also use a tree stand people use for hunting deer. You would probably want to get one that is pretty high quality as some of those palms seem to be 80-100 ft. I think I would be terrified to be high up in a Mexican Fan palm that is only 6 inches in diameter at the top. As someone else said earlier, those are the only trees that I don't mind having my clients' lawn guy do!


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## outofmytree

jomoco said:


> Yeah, well there are obviously thousands of pros capable of pruning or removing date palms without getting impaled by them, even after pruning thousands of them for decades.
> 
> Brush up on your pruning techniques and put away the stupid polesaws!
> 
> Nothing about palms are easy, and date palms will separate the men from the boys real quick in my experience here in SoCal.
> 
> A pole saw to prune a date palm practically guarantees a trip to the hospital.
> 
> All you need is a sharp midsize chainsaw like a 262 xp husky, saddle and gaffs with a steelcore lanyard and the right technique.
> 
> Fan palms kill far more climbers here than date palms do.
> 
> jomoco




It is possible to prune _Phoenix caneriensis _ safely with a polesaw. I use a Stihl ht75 and have, over time, developed a comparatively safe technique which I described earlier. Climbing the palm with spikes and leaning way out from the stem to prune out of a harness and lanyard is a sure way to earn a trip to the chiropractor or physiotherapist to repair lower back damage. That trip of course would be directly after a trip to the ER to remove spines from your head, neck and shoulders.

I strongly disagree with your suggested technique and recommend that others exercise extreme caution before attempting to use it.

Given a choice I prefer to prune all Phoenix palms like this.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfysMNi9Nd0


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## treevet

jomoco said:


> I like the way you post examples of anything but an actual date palm TV, and offering opinions on trees you have no hands on experience with to boot.
> 
> Careful you don't get a date palm spike in yu TV!
> 
> jomoco



awwww did I huht yur feeelings buddy?? 

Guess it is ok to make holes in "actual date palms"....my bad


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## treevet

mikewhite85 said:


> Now that I think of it though, I have heard that you can also use a tree stand people use for hunting deer. You would probably want to get one that is pretty high quality as some of those palms seem to be 80-100 ft. I think I would be terrified to be high up in a Mexican Fan palm that is only 6 inches in diameter at the top. As someone else said earlier, those are the only trees that I don't mind having my clients' lawn guy do!



This was on the same site Mike...


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## tree MDS

I remember the palms from south FL. The date palms could be painful indeed... still no reason to hate on whats actually a pretty cool looking palm. One of my favorites.

The fishtail palm is pretty evil though. We used to send the new guys after them, it was funny to watch it don on them that their arms were on fire while we were snickering.

Spiking palms was a big no no. Palms being monocots, dont compartmentalize. If i remember correctly we called it "bottlenecked", where you could see where the climber had stood on the spikes at the same height repeatedly. Those were pretty hairy. we used ladders or the bucket for palms.


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## mikewhite85

treevet said:


> This was on the same site Mike...



Oh, sweet. But he is crazy to wear short sleeves and shorts!


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## briggstwiggs

mikewhite85 said:


> Oh, sweet. But he is crazy to wear short sleeves and shorts!



agreed he is crazy cause you dont even make enough money on palms unless you have a bunch when there that big and you have enough rent a lift if you dont have a bucket. I dont trim the tall ones cause no one wants to pay its a waist of time. back to the thorn holly crap that was a big one also these thorns carry a poision in them I have had one stick in and break off and it actually moved about a 1/4 inch away from were it went in and stood up thought iwas going to push on it to make a new hole ya bad idea wasnt thinking pushed it down further. I had to have it lanced also couldnt close my hand for about a week. these things are sharp ive had them stick right through some thick leather


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## Bermie

tree MDS said:


> I remember the palms from south FL. The date palms could be painful indeed... still no reason to hate on whats actually a pretty cool looking palm. One of my favorites.
> 
> .



Oh sure, I agree they are a pretty amazing landscape palm, can be very regal especially when planted in avenues or groups...I just hate working on them!


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## tree MDS

Bermie said:


> Oh sure, I agree they are a pretty amazing landscape palm, can be very regal especially when planted in avenues or groups...I just hate working on them!



I think it was what we called a "Queen Palm" that I thought was the nastiest looking. Those Washingtonia (?) palms could slash you up pretty good too. 

I miss those trees right about now - its 22 degrees and we're expecting the first big snow storm of the year. maybe a foot or more.


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## mikewhite85

tree MDS said:


> I think it was what we called a "Queen Palm" that I thought was the nastiest looking. Those Washingtonia (?) palms could slash you up pretty good too.
> 
> I miss those trees right about now - its 22 degrees and we're expecting the first big snow storm of the year. maybe a foot or more.



I am actually leaving SoCal on Tues to visit my family in Connecticut for the next 2 weeks. I can bring you a palm frond if you want!


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## ROOTSXROCKS

I thought the washintonias were a pretty palm back about 15 years ago, that is till I saw how fast they grow.


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## jefflovstrom

jomoco said:


> Yeah, well there are obviously thousands of pros capable of pruning or removing date palms without getting impaled by them, even after pruning thousands of them for decades.
> 
> Brush up on your pruning techniques and put away the stupid polesaws!
> 
> Nothing about palms are easy, and date palms will separate the men from the boys real quick in my experience here in SoCal.
> 
> A pole saw to prune a date palm practically guarantees a trip to the hospital.
> 
> All you need is a sharp midsize chainsaw like a 262 xp husky, saddle and gaffs with a steelcore lanyard and the right technique.
> 
> Fan palms kill far more climbers here than date palms do.
> 
> jomoco




Jon is right here, and cool pics of palms that are not canary dates!
Jeff
Hundreds of dates and only 2 incidents.
Jeff


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## EdenT

jefflovstrom said:


> Hundreds of dates and only 2 incidents.
> Jeff



Sorry to hear that, have you tried getting them pissed.


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## treevet

ya gotta get a little chuckle outta that one :hmm3grin2orange:


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## outofmytree

Ok so now Jeff and Jomoco want to prune Date palms in spurs using a rear handle saw? I would really like to see some pictures or a video because I cannot visualise a safe method of doing this. Please enlighten me.

This picture is the standard for "show" pruning here acheived with a pole saw or with a rear handle saw from a bucket. Note the collar left at the top to protect the frond petioles. How do you achieve the same result from spurs?


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## jomoco

No wonder SoCal trees scare all the wanna be arborists back to where they come from!

If the big eucs aren't enough, the dates at MCRD seal the deal.

You guys really crack me up sometimes!

jomoco


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## jomoco

We need Rich Magargal on this forum to teach proper palm pruning etiquette!

Hey Jeff, call Rich and get him to tutor these guys. Unlike me, he likes to teach.

jomoco


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## outofmytree

jomoco said:


> No wonder SoCal trees scare all the wanna be arborists back to where they come from!
> 
> If the big eucs aren't enough, the dates at MCRD seal the deal.
> 
> You guys really crack me up sometimes!
> 
> jomoco



Wanna be arborists? 

I take it from this wisecrack reply that you have no pictures or videos of your recommended method? This is Commercial Climbing not the joke forum Jomoco. If you are going to put others at risk by suggesting a dangerous technique than have the grace to back it up with evidence or just say nothing at all.


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## jomoco

outofmytree said:


> Ok so now Jeff and Jomoco want to prune Date palms in spurs using a rear handle saw? I would really like to see some pictures or a video because I cannot visualise a safe method of doing this. Please enlighten me.
> 
> This picture is the standard for "show" pruning here acheived with a pole saw or with a rear handle saw from a bucket. Note the collar left at the top to protect the frond petioles. How do you achieve the same result from spurs?



You call that a showcase example of date palm pruning with all that fruit left in the bloody tree?

jomoco


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## outofmytree

jomoco said:


> You call that a showcase example of date palm pruning with all that fruit left in the bloody tree?
> 
> jomoco



I picked the photograph to show the trunk finish and collar. 

Verbal distractions like attacking evidence are a common technique employed by poorly equipped debaters. Once again you avoid a direct question.

You say it is safer to prune these palms with spurs, lanyard and belt. Please post visual evidence of the increased safety of such a technique. Anything less is an admission of failure to support your argument.


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## jomoco

outofmytree said:


> Wanna be arborists?
> 
> I take it from this wisecrack reply that you have no pictures or videos of your recommended method? This is Commercial Climbing not the joke forum Jomoco. If you are going to put others at risk by suggesting a dangerous technique than have the grace to back it up with evidence or just say nothing at all.



Polesaw away mate!

jomoco


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## jomoco

outofmytree said:


> I picked the photograph to show the trunk finish and collar.
> 
> Verbal distractions like attacking evidence are a common technique employed by poorly equipped debaters. Once again you avoid a direct question.
> 
> You say it is safer to prune these palms with spurs, lanyard and belt. Please post visual evidence of the increased safety of such a technique. Anything less is an admission of failure to support your argument.



Yu got me mate, I'm a green newbie that knows nothing at all bout Aussie palm pruning standards whatsoever, thankfully!

jomoco


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## outofmytree

jomoco said:


> Polesaw away mate!
> 
> jomoco





> Yu got me mate, I'm a green newbie that knows nothing at all bout Aussie palm pruning standards whatsoever, thankfully!
> 
> jomoco


More jibes without evidence. Your argument weakens with each post. 

You have the temerity to call me a wannabe arborist and by inference unprofessional but you have produced only hot air to date. 

Put up or shut up.

Show evidence of your claimed safer technique


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## jomoco

outofmytree said:


> More jibes without evidence. Your argument weakens with each post.
> 
> You have the temerity to call me a wannabe arborist and by inference unprofessional but you have produced only hot air to date.
> 
> Put up or shut up.
> 
> Show evidence of your claimed safer technique



I willingly bow to your obvious superiority on how to prune a showcase palm that meets the Hotel Del Coronado standards mate!

Show us more of your stuff by all means.

jomoco


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## outofmytree

jomoco said:


> I willingly bow to your obvious superiority on how to prune a showcase palm that meets the Hotel Del Coronado standards mate!
> 
> Show us more of your stuff by all means.
> 
> jomoco



:chatter:

No evidence yet Jomoco?


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## jomoco

outofmytree said:


> :chatter:
> 
> No evidence yet Jomoco?



Nope, I wouldn't want to embarrass myself by illustrating my feeble techniques to such experts as yourself, or your impaled colleagues.

jomoco


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## outofmytree

jomoco said:


> Nope, I wouldn't want to embarrass myself by illustrating my feeble techniques to such experts as yourself, or your impaled colleagues.
> 
> jomoco



I suspect this is closer to the truth than you wish to say.

I had hoped you were serious in your claims to have a safer technique. Obviously not. :notrolls2:


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## ROOTSXROCKS

jomoco said:


> I willingly bow to your obvious superiority on how to prune a showcase palm that meets the Hotel Del Coronado standards mate!
> 
> Show us more of your stuff by all means.
> 
> jomoco



Google maps street view does not leave me impressed.


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## jefflovstrom

jomoco said:


> We need Rich Magargal on this forum to teach proper palm pruning etiquette!
> 
> Hey Jeff, call Rich and get him to tutor these guys. Unlike me, he likes to teach.
> 
> jomoco



It would be interesting to have Rich here to view the ignorance. He showed me how to go over the whole head 20 years ago, He is getting old but a great teacher! If you do trees in Socal, you better be able to handle date palms. Maybe I will give Rich a call.
Jeff


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## outofmytree

I checked out the website of Hotel Del Coronado and it seems they don't like Jomoco's safe method of Date Palm pruning either.

Here is a link to the hotels photo gallery. I have used photo #6. http://www.hoteldel.com/GalleryPopUp.aspx?photogallery=promolistinterior.aspx?collectionid=28








If you havent seen a Canary Island Date Palm up close let me describe the fronds. They have 6-10 spines on each side each one up to 300mm long. These spines easily puncture leather welding gauntlets and even work boots. Each layer will have between 10 and 16 fronds on the palm above. There would have been up to 6 fruit bearing branches per layer all of which have been removed. 

This means, according to Jomoco's "safe" pruning technique, some climber has made up to 36 cuts with a rear handle chainsaw, carefully avoiding no less than 360 spines whilst standing in spurs attached by lanyard to the trunk at the position shown above. 

Simple mathematics says that in order to reach that high with that saw a climber would need to be 4 metres or about 13 feet tall. 

Or perhaps the Hotel Del Coronado, like most commercial establishments with these palms on site, hired a team with an EWP to do the job. Perhaps they too realise that spiking up a palm of this size and value then cutting fronds directly over your head with a rear handle saw is something only a fool would do.


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## jefflovstrom

I did that very tree about 16 years ago. Nice ball and all the fruit. I did it for Homestead Tree. Ease up "outofmytree," You obviously dont do as many dates as we do here in California. BTW, Landscapers do the robellini ,windmills, trachycarpus , sago, etc.
Jeff Lovstrom


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## jomoco

Let him go on Jeff, it makes for good comedy.

Please continue on mister date palm expert!

jomoco


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## jefflovstrom

Right!
Jeff


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## jomoco

jefflovstrom said:


> Right!
> Jeff



Did you see his illustration of where your lanyard goes? LOL!

And remember, you must always prune over your head!

jomoco


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## jefflovstrom

We are amazed at ignorance. 
Jeff:monkey:


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## EdenT

Hey I am one of these people who use a pole saw or EWP to do these things. And it would seem most others do to. If you two really do have a safer way of doing these things then stop playin' and start typin'.


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## jomoco

Rich Magargal has probably pruned more palms over the years than any other climber I know. And though he's getting on in years now, he is still very active in the biz and teaching palm safety now in the southwest.

Here is a link to an article he wrote for Helen Stone on how to recognise the dangers involved in pruning the mex fan palms that have killed so many climbers in the southwest. 

http://www.swtreesandturf.com/articles/1606/safety11606.html

Rich is also widely recognised here for his expertise in balling and slicking canary island date palms.

jom0oco


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## Bermie

The one that got me in the elbow...and it was when I was loading fronds onto the truck...P. reclinata

Now, I don't do a huge lot of P canariensis...enough to not like them, but if they are over a height that I can get a good close cut with a polesaw, then its an EWP for me...if you can get up close enough to those fronds from below on spikes and a lanyard and not get punctures then I'll sub everything to you and take a 10% finders fee...
More power to ya


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## EdenT

Hi Jomoco,
Thanks for the article. Yes the Washingtonia spp. certainly can be a danger if you go up on a pole belt. I think these days most people either go over the top on a false crotch or EWP them. 

Do you have a safe method for ascending, pruning and cleaning a Phoenix canariensis? If so please elaborate.

Thanks 
ET


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## jomoco

Bermie said:


> The one that got me in the elbow...and it was when I was loading fronds onto the truck...P. reclinata
> 
> Now, I don't do a huge lot of P canariensis...enough to not like them, but if they are over a height that I can get a good close cut with a polesaw, then its an EWP for me...if you can get up close enough to those fronds from below on spikes and a lanyard and not get punctures then I'll sub everything to you and take a 10% finders fee...
> More power to ya



Simply because old school climbers like Magargal, Morales, Whorral and myself have pruned thousands of dates to specs using saddle, gaffs and a sharp rear handled chainsaw, does not mean the average joe can do the same.

Which is why I hesitate to elaborate on the technique that has worked so well for me personally for over 30 years now.

I note that even Magargal himself, whose technique I copied so successfully, hesitates to recommend other climbers use the same technique, but rather recommends a bucket or crane to accomplish the job!

But the truth of the matter is that SoCal climbers have been using the exact same technique Magargal and I use since the 60's when Jim Whorral taught it to Magargal. CI date palms are one of the nastiest and challenging trees to prune or remove around, full of rats, bumble bees, centipedes, bird crap and a host of other disgusting stuff aside from their huge spikes, which can put you in the hospital plenty quick.

Why would I recommend other climbers use my technique when doing so could get them hurt or killed?

There are only about a dozen other SoCal climbers I know that are even capable of dealing with date palms without getting into trouble using the old school method of pruning them.

By all means, use a bucket, a polesaw or whatever it takes you to prune these monsters without injuring yourselves. The most important thing to me is that you make it home safely at the end of each work day guys.

jomoco


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## EdenT

jomoco said:


> Yeah, well there are obviously thousands of pros capable of pruning or removing date palms without getting impaled by them, even after pruning thousands of them for decades.
> 
> Brush up on your pruning techniques and put away the stupid polesaws!
> 
> Nothing about palms are easy, and date palms will separate the men from the boys real quick in my experience here in SoCal.
> 
> A pole saw to prune a date palm practically guarantees a trip to the hospital.
> 
> All you need is a sharp midsize chainsaw like a 262 xp husky, saddle and gaffs with a steelcore lanyard and the right technique.
> 
> Fan palms kill far more climbers here than date palms do.
> 
> jomoco






jomoco said:


> I like the way you post examples of anything but an actual date palm TV, and offering opinions on trees you have no hands on experience with to boot.
> 
> Careful you don't get a date palm spike in yu TV!
> 
> jomoco






jomoco said:


> No wonder SoCal trees scare all the wanna be arborists back to where they come from!
> 
> If the big eucs aren't enough, the dates at MCRD seal the deal.
> 
> You guys really crack me up sometimes!
> 
> jomoco






jefflovstrom said:


> It would be interesting to have Rich here to view the ignorance. He showed me how to go over the whole head 20 years ago, He is getting old but a great teacher! If you do trees in Socal, you better be able to handle date palms. Maybe I will give Rich a call.
> Jeff





jomoco said:


> Let him go on Jeff, it makes for good comedy.
> 
> Please continue on mister date palm expert!
> 
> jomoco





jefflovstrom said:


> Right!
> Jeff





jomoco said:


> Did you see his illustration of where your lanyard goes? LOL!
> 
> And remember, you must always prune over your head!
> 
> jomoco





jefflovstrom said:


> We are amazed at ignorance.
> Jeff:monkey:





jomoco said:


> Simply because old school climbers like Magargal, Morales, Whorral and myself have pruned thousands of dates to specs using saddle, gaffs and a sharp rear handled chainsaw, does not mean the average joe can do the same.
> 
> Which is why I hesitate to elaborate on the technique that has worked so well for me personally for over 30 years now.
> 
> I note that even Magargal himself, whose technique I copied so successfully, hesitates to recommend other climbers use the same technique, but rather recommends a bucket or crane to accomplish the job!
> 
> But the truth of the matter is that SoCal climbers have been using the exact same technique Magargal and I use since the 60's when Jim Whorral taught it to Magargal. CI date palms are one of the nastiest and challenging trees to prune or remove around, full of rats, bumble bees, centipedes, bird crap and a host of other disgusting stuff aside from their huge spikes, which can put you in the hospital plenty quick.
> 
> Why would I recommend other climbers use my technique when doing so could get them hurt or killed?
> 
> There are only about a dozen other SoCal climbers I know that are even capable of dealing with date palms without getting into trouble using the old school method of pruning them.
> 
> By all means, use a bucket, a polesaw or whatever it takes you to prune these monsters without injuring yourselves. The most important thing to me is that you make it home safely at the end of each work day guys.
> 
> jomoco



You start out by telling us that using a polesaw is a guaranteed trip to hospital and a rear handle, pole belt and good technique is the way to go.

You then call us wannabe arborists.

You then drop a whole lineage of date palm pruners on us dating back to before I was born.

You have yet to share with us the technique for pruning a date palm with a rear handled saw (which I am beginning to doubt exists).

I have only seen one rear handled saw that could really handle this job


----------



## jomoco

EdenT said:


> You start out by telling us that using a polesaw is a guaranteed trip to hospital and a rear handle, pole belt and good technique is the way to go.
> 
> You then call us wannabe arborists.
> 
> You then drop a whole lineage of date palm pruners on us dating back to before I was born.
> 
> You have yet to share with us the technique for pruning a date palm with a rear handled saw (which I am beginning to doubt exists).
> 
> I have only seen one rear handled saw that could really handle this job



My saw choice for date pruning is a 262xp husky with a 20 inch bar.

I've seen other climbers use a polesaw in dates, but only to reach the fruit after it's been balled and slicked with a chainsaw.

I'll check with Rich and see if he has some vids of the old school method that I can post.

I'll also vid the next date palm I do with my helmet cam, but with the clear understanding that I don't recommend other climbers attempt the same.

You guys really prune dates with a polesaw huh?

jomoco


----------



## EdenT

Yes, polesaw works for low ones. You put two cuts in each frond. One outside the spiky bits that drops the main frond and then a second cut to remove the petiole stub with the spiky bits. Once you start dropping the spikes you need to keep the ground clear in case you have to move quick while still looking upwards. If you want to ball and slick then it's a bucket and a chainsaw.

I look forward to seeing your video's. Your disclaimer is noted.


----------



## jomoco

Embarrassing as it is to admit, at 14 years old I began pruning wash fans with hand loppers no less, three cuts per frond! At 15 years old, after graduating to monkey wards electric chainsaws, I bumped into my first date palm prunes, so I drove huge nails into their trunks to stand on all the way up about 40 feet, buzzed them real good with an electric chainsaw, told the customer I was leaving the nails in them for the next go round!

I never received any type of formal exposure to professional tree work or training until 78 when I was 19. As soon as I saw a pro working off a bodyline for the first time, I said the heck with stinkin palms, I wanna be a hardwood climber!

I cant think of anything harder on men or equipment than a big nasty palm contract. Palm juice literally dissolves the magnesium in your chainsaw casing, dulls a razor sharp chainsaw in minutes.

If I never did another palm in my life?

Peeling wash fans?

The man who invents a mechanical palm peeling/skinning machine could do very well indeed!

jomoco


----------



## EdenT

*Mechanical advantage for palm cleaning.*

Great news! A mechanical advantage for cleaning palms HAS been invented. I've heard they're a bit pricey though.


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

jomoco said:


> My saw choice for date pruning is a 262xp husky with a 20 inch bar.
> 
> I've seen other climbers use a polesaw in dates, but only to reach the fruit after it's been balled and slicked with a chainsaw.
> 
> I'll check with Rich and see if he has some vids of the old school method that I can post.
> 
> I'll also vid the next date palm I do with my helmet cam, but with the clear understanding that I don't recommend other climbers attempt the same.
> 
> You guys really prune dates with a polesaw huh?
> 
> jomoco


Look forward to the Video, don't worry When ask to prune them i use Nancy's advice and Just say no. 
Besides here in north Florida its rare I see any Monsters that tall, I only mess with the ritlanatas for one customer and I cuss the entire time I do it.


----------



## jomoco

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> Look forward to the Video, don't worry When ask to prune them i use Nancy's advice and Just say no.
> Besides here in north Florida its rare I see any Monsters that tall, I only mess with the ritlanatas for one customer and I cuss the entire time I do it.



One of the few types of pruning I'll actually use a carbide tipped chain to accomplish, is removing advantitious pups from reclinata palm groupings. Their spikes are just as sharp as a CI date, if not as long.

jomoco


----------



## jefflovstrom

23 Phoenix dactylifera (true dates) tommorrow. I will get pics and see if this site lets me load them. I hate when they stick out a new head.
Jeff


----------



## jomoco

Hey Jeff, I just got off the phone with Rich, and he's going to hook me up with some old school CI date palm pruning vid footage. The master himself!

Should be worthy of an entirely new palm specialist thread.

Between you me and Rich, we should be able to post some decent stuff!

I'm going to have to get Ekka to chip in some Aussie palm techniques to round things out nicely.

Looking forward to seeing your dactylifera footage Jeff. But we both know they're way easy compared to canariensis'!

jomoco


----------



## outofmytree

jomoco said:


> Hey Jeff, I just got off the phone with Rich, and he's going to hook me up with some old school CI date palm pruning vid footage. The master himself!
> 
> Should be worthy of an entirely new palm specialist thread.
> 
> Between you me and Rich, we should be able to post some decent stuff!
> 
> I'm going to have to get Ekka to chip in some Aussie palm techniques to round things out nicely.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing your dactylifera footage Jeff. But we both know they're way easy compared to canariensis'!
> 
> jomoco



This I would like to see. I am especially interested in how the fruit is removed without spiking the climber or damaging the collar.


----------



## outofmytree

jomoco said:


> Rich Magargal has probably pruned more palms over the years than any other climber I know. And though he's getting on in years now, he is still very active in the biz and teaching palm safety now in the southwest.
> 
> Here is a link to an article he wrote for Helen Stone on how to recognise the dangers involved in pruning the mex fan palms that have killed so many climbers in the southwest.
> 
> http://www.swtreesandturf.com/articles/1606/safety11606.html
> 
> Rich is also widely recognised here for his expertise in balling and slicking canary island date palms.
> 
> jom0oco



Interesting article although, as you were quick to point out yourself earlier, not about the palm in question. I would be interested to see exactly how Magargal prunes Washingtonia's now as compared to when he required rescue. Perhaps it is similar to this.

















When I have a point to make, especially regarding safe climbing, I back it up with E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E. 



> Simply because old school climbers like Magargal, Morales, Whorral and myself have pruned thousands of dates to specs using saddle, gaffs and a sharp rear handled chainsaw, does not mean the average joe can do the same.



So then you should have plenty of evidence of this technique you rave about.



> The most important thing to me is that you make it home safely at the end of each work day guys.



Really? Is this true? If it is and you have a safer way to do the job then show us all and I will be the first to eat humble pie.


----------



## treevet

jomoco said:


> I'm going to have to get Ekka to chip in some Aussie palm techniques to round things out nicely.
> jomoco



Don't think you will get an Aussie to validate your tech. as I am pretty sure it is in violation of their pruning standards to spike their prunes like you do.

A.S. 4373 2007 Pruning of Amenity Trees

Damn, you are only 51 years old?


----------



## tree MDS

Nice job with that palm oomt.


----------



## outofmytree

treevet said:


> Don't think you will get an Aussie to validate your tech. as I am pretty sure it is in violation of their pruning standards to spike their prunes like you do.
> 
> A.S. 4373 2007 Pruning of Amenity Trees
> 
> Damn, you are only 51 years old?



Good point TV.

Extract from AS 4373 section 7.4 Pruning of palms 

"Climbing devices that wound the stem, such as spikes, should not be used as they may allow entry of decay causing organisms and other pathogens" and this little gem "The genus _Phoenix_ ..... are very susceptible to the fatal fungal disease caused by _Fusarium oxysporum_"

Come on Jomoco. If TV can find information on a standard that applies half a world away, surely you can find at least one photograph or video in your own computer.

Enlighten us please.


----------



## treevet

Don't press him too much Doc, he will fire up the old zoo video footage on us again.


----------



## Bermie

It doesn't appear to me that oomt is wearing spikes in that picture...?
I can't zoom in to se for sure...


----------



## tree MDS

Check out page 12 of the sherrill cat. on the black widow micro bull line too.

Hard to tell exactly what they got going on there, but somebody must be familiar with this. A few years back they explained it better (if I remember correctly).


----------



## outofmytree

Bermie said:


> It doesn't appear to me that oomt is wearing spikes in that picture...?
> I can't zoom in to se for sure...



Those palms were removals but you are correct Bermie. No spurs are required on Washingtonias when you use a false crotch. The petiole bases form a rough "thatching" as you know and this offers a good grip to boots. In fact spurs get caught in the dead fronds more often than not and become an impediment to lateral movement.


----------



## jomoco

outofmytree said:


> Those palms were removals but you are correct Bermie. No spurs are required on Washingtonias when you use a false crotch. The petiole bases form a rough "thatching" as you know and this offers a good grip to boots. In fact spurs get caught in the dead fronds more often than not and become an impediment to lateral movement.



Have any climbers died in Australia from wash fan frond bags falling on them and asphyxiating them outofmytree?

12 here in SoCal since 02.

jomoco


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

I am still trying to visualize how that happens, is it from trying to prune from the bottom up? The hurricane weather here rarely allows that mush build up, but I have seen them pretty thick, I would not want to mess with them like that. Hell I don't like doing it when I can reach them from the ground.


----------



## jomoco

Magargal's article on the subject has a pic of the fire dept guys rescuing some unfortunate fellow.

http://www.swtreesandturf.com/articles/1606/safety11606.html

It may indeed just be a southwest thing with wash fans in this climate?

I know guys have died from it in phoenix and nevada relatively recently as well.

jomoco


----------



## jefflovstrom

jomoco said:


> Have any climbers died in Australia from wash fan frond bags falling on them and asphyxiating them outofmytree?
> 
> 12 here in SoCal since 02.
> 
> jomoco



Those were reported, maybe more! I dont get it OOMT! Why do you insist on video and documents from guys that know what they know? Are you questioning old timers that were removing ALL the fruit and also shape the ball and move around a CI safely? Maybe you just like to argue,
Jeff Lovstrom


----------



## outofmytree

jomoco said:


> Have any climbers died in Australia from wash fan frond bags falling on them and asphyxiating them outofmytree?
> 
> 12 here in SoCal since 02.
> 
> jomoco



I will get the exact information later but from memory the standard is pruning from below the skirt with 3 years growth or less. More than that and you bucket or rope over the crown as shown above.

The potential for death by suffocation is well known but I have no knowledge of fatalities in Australia.


----------



## outofmytree

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> I am still trying to visualize how that happens, is it from trying to prune from the bottom up? The hurricane weather here rarely allows that mush build up, but I have seen them pretty thick, I would not want to mess with them like that. Hell I don't like doing it when I can reach them from the ground.



The small palm you see in my pictures above had about 400kg of "skirt". Imagine that mass pressing down on your polebelt and covering your upper body. It bends you out backwards like a nasty wrestling move. The dust is thick and chokes you and the mass presses the air from your lungs. I would rather fall than suffocate under that stuff.


----------



## outofmytree

jefflovstrom said:


> Those were reported, maybe more! I dont get it OOMT! Why do you insist on video and documents from guys that know what they know? Are you questioning old timers that were removing ALL the fruit and also shape the ball and move around a CI safely? Maybe you just like to argue,
> Jeff Lovstrom




You have the bare faced cheek to ask ANYONE else if they post just to argue? After you harangued treeslayer for a fortnight?



> The most important thing to me is that you make it home safely at the end of each work day guys.



This is the reason I share knowledge and ask others to do the same. I always took you to be petulant, rather than obtuse. It is up to you to prove which it is.


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

outofmytree said:


> The small palm you see in my pictures above had about 400kg of "skirt". Imagine that mass pressing down on your polebelt and covering your upper body. It bends you out backwards like a nasty wrestling move. The dust is thick and chokes you and the mass presses the air from your lungs. I would rather fall than suffocate under that stuff.



Thank you, that makes a much clearer picture, as I was imagining it pressing you against the tree, Truly a nasty way to be trapped.


----------



## EdenT

Dear Diary,

It has been 2 days since the expedition by our colleagues Jomoco & Lovstrom departed in search of the hallowed "Old School Method for Pruning CI Date Palms".
I worry for their well being for we have had no word in the past day.
The men are in high spirits, but that subversive 'Doc' has been telling stories around the campfire. Roots has said he's staying away from skirt and this concerns me. He could go the same way as SoMe of the other men.
The popcorn supplies are holding up ok but we had to send runners for soda.
In God we trust. 
opcorn:


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

EdenT said:


> Dear Diary,
> 
> Roots has said he's staying away from skirt and this concerns me. He could go the same way as SoMe of the other men.


 My momma told me there was teeth in there, Im skeered.


----------



## jomoco

EdenT said:


> Dear Diary,
> 
> It has been 2 days since the expedition by our colleagues Jomoco & Lovstrom departed in search of the hallowed "Old School Method for Pruning CI Date Palms".
> I worry for their well being for we have had no word in the past day.
> The men are in high spirits, but that subversive 'Doc' has been telling stories around the campfire. Roots has said he's staying away from skirt and this concerns me. He could go the same way as SoMe of the other men.
> The popcorn supplies are holding up ok but we had to send runners for soda.
> In God we trust.
> opcorn:



Fear not Eden darling, it takes time to gather old VHS footage and convert it all to a digital format.

In the meantime I invite you to post up your own CI palm pruning methods so we can compare methods.

Please try and not make us old schoolers look too bad sweetheart!

jomoco


----------



## treevet

EdenT said:


> Dear Diary,
> 
> It has been 2 days since the expedition by our colleagues Jomoco & Lovstrom departed in search of the hallowed "Old School Method for Pruning CI Date Palms".
> I worry for their well being for we have had no word in the past day.
> The men are in high spirits, but that subversive 'Doc' has been telling stories around the campfire. Roots has said he's staying away from skirt and this concerns me. He could go the same way as SoMe of the other men.
> The popcorn supplies are holding up ok but we had to send runners for soda.
> In God we trust.



I was kinda hopin the old sage would make an appearance. Does he look and act like the guy that helped Patrick Swazee in "Road House"?
opcorn:


----------



## outofmytree

Hmmm Sam Elliot +


----------



## treevet

outofmytree said:


> Hmmm Sam Elliot +



..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCwMlLBNhsA&NR=1


----------



## tree MDS

Nice work TV. The swayze was an ok dude really...in retrospect. 

Now back to those nasty palms: I'm surprized nobody had any thoughts on my post regarding page twelve of the sherrill cat. It looks like they got something that would work pretty slick worked out.


----------



## outofmytree

tree MDS said:


> Nice work TV. The swayze was an ok dude really...in retrospect.
> 
> Now back to those nasty palms: I'm surprized nobody had any thoughts on my post regarding page twelve of the sherrill cat. It looks like they got something that would work pretty slick worked out.



No catalogues in upsidedownland mate. What's on page 12 of yours?


----------



## tree MDS

outofmytree said:


> No catalogues in upsidedownland mate. What's on page 12 of yours?



I just a small pic, but it looks like they are suggesting pulling a 1/4" piece of black widow micro bull line (rated at 7400 lbs) with a spliced eye over the crown, with a pulley of some sort through it to work off. then it goes back down to a porty on the other side of the palm. I suppose you could use a friction saver as well. Not sure why the porty though...


----------



## tree MDS

I guess the theory is that its easier to pull this stuff through due to its small diameter and light weight (180' weighs 3.5 lbs), but still strong enough for life support.


----------



## outofmytree

tree MDS said:


> I just a small pic, but it looks like they are suggesting pulling a 1/4" piece of black widow micro bull line (rated at 7400 lbs) with a spliced eye over the crown, with a pulley of some sort through it to work off. then it goes back down to a porty on the other side of the palm. I suppose you could use a friction saver as well. Not sure why the porty though...



Ah. Check out this video. You will see that system in action.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=118813

It is commonly referred to as an adjustable false crotch. The portawrap is used to ensure the rope is secure and to allow a competent groundie to lower a climber out of the tree in case of an accident. I would not recommend using such a system for a 360 degree pruning job on a palm as you run the risk of cutting the bull rope and dropping yourself out of the tree!  I use it for access only then switch over to a pulley & webbing sling false crotch wrapped around the heart of Washingtonia palms. 





Yale XTC fire works equally well for dragging through the heads of palms due to its close exterior weave. The real challenge lies in dragging the knot which joins the throwline to the climbing line through the head of the palm. I have found that if you get a fair way out from the base so that the line is about 45 degrees to the ground you can "work" the knot through the head with a little practise. Ok, a lot of practise.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary*

Dear Diary,

DISASTER!!!
At dusk last night some of the men found an outgrowth of C. indica. In the ensuing fracas the entire beer ration and most of the popcorn rations were lost. If TMD hears about this, (and the Dan hears everything), the men may learn that the 'Sticks and Stones' idiom is wildly inaccurate. Runners have been dispatched.

Morale has begun flagging. Treevet, our spiritual leader, has been trying to shore up the men's spirits by showing old Patrick Swayze movies, although he remains ideologically opposed to our quest.

On a more positive note we have received word back from the Jomoco Lovstrom expedition. Reports are sketchy but some progress is being made. It is clear that the strain is affecting Jomoco as he addressed me as a woman throughout his last missive. I reassured him of my and the men's continued support for his mission. As always we pray to God for their safe and speedy return.

In God we trust.
opcorn:


----------



## treevet

I do what I can. :smoking::agree2:


----------



## jefflovstrom

EdenT said:


> Dear Diary,
> 
> DISASTER!!!
> At dusk last night some of the men found an outgrowth of C. indica. In the ensuing fracas the entire beer ration and most of the popcorn rations were lost. If TMD hears about this, (and the Dan hears everything), the men may learn that the 'Sticks and Stones' idiom is wildly inaccurate. Runners have been dispatched.
> 
> Morale has begun flagging. Treevet, our spiritual leader, has been trying to shore up the men's spirits by showing old Patrick Swayze movies, although he remains ideologically opposed to our quest.
> 
> On a more positive note we have received word back from the Jomoco Lovstrom expedition. Reports are sketchy but some progress is being made. It is clear that the strain is affecting Jomoco as he addressed me as a woman throughout his last missive. I reassured him of my and the men's continued support for his mission. As always we pray to God for their safe and speedy return.
> 
> In God we trust.
> opcorn:



Relax Eden, you really need to relax.
Jeff


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary*

Dear Diary

It is the yuletide. The nights are long and there is much merriment. We have been camped for almost a week now and as so often happens on these long lonely expeditions the men’s thoughts have turned to wood chippers. There is currently a debate in progress as to what improvements should be made on the next model. There are three main schools of thought on the subject.

1.	The Nannies - those who think that the chippers should be made child friendly with nap cushions and emergency blankies.

2.	The Frankenstinians - those who think that in addition to the standard PPE , we should issue chipper operators with their own brain.

3.	The Darwinians – Those who think chippers should be made to actively hunt down and eat the inexperienced to evolve a stronger, smarter breed of Arborist.

For my own part I would just like them to come in nicer colors. Pastels maybe?

In God we trust
opcorn:


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

EdenT said:


> Dear Diary
> 
> It is the yuletide. The nights are long and there is much merriment. We have been camped for almost a week now and as so often happens on these long lonely expeditions the men’s thoughts have turned to wood chippers. There is currently a debate in progress as to what improvements should be made on the next model. There are three main schools of thought on the subject.
> 
> 1.	The Nannies - those who think that the chippers should be made child friendly with nap cushions and emergency blankies.
> 
> 2.	The Frankenstinians - those who think that in addition to the standard PPE , we should issue chipper operators with their own brain.
> 
> 3.	The Darwinians – Those who think chippers should be made to actively hunt down and eat the inexperienced to evolve a stronger, smarter breed of Arborist.
> 
> For my own part I would just like them to come in nicer colors. Pastels maybe?
> 
> In God we trust
> opcorn:



hmmm I suppose IM in # 3 camp Pastel wood chippers . I think there are a few pink ones out there. 
I think a simple b&w zebra stripe with Bright red accents would be best.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary*

Dear Diary,
Why didn’t I listen to my wife? She told me I was crazy to embark on a venture such as this, with a company composed only of Arborists. After more than a week in the wilderness, we have enough firewood to put an Arborist on the moon, but do you think any-one will do the dishes? The only woman in our company, Bermie, is no help at all. If anyone even mentions dishes within earshot of her, she guns her chainsaw and laughs manically. 

It has come to my attention that NC has an ongoing ‘condition’. In his own words, he has been ‘nuts his whole life’. Given the early age of diagnosis one must question the wisdom of whoever taught this man how to use a chainsaw.

This endless waiting combined with the festivities is beginning to become predictable. Every evening of inebriated merriment gives way to a morning of bleakness and hangover somehow worse than the last. Despair over the lack of progress in the Jomoco Lovstrom expedition kicks in by late afternoon and this in turn, leads back to inebriation.

In God we trust
opcorn:


----------



## treevet

Mr. Jomoco has been waylaid by feeling it is his obligation to waylay the entire national population of groundmen (and to be pc....groundwomen) from perpetually diving headfirst through whole tree woodchippers for no apparent reason. I tip my cap to him but, like you and the entire membership here at Arboristsite, we wish he would get back on task and, with Jeff, complete his original preassigned mission. opcorn:


----------



## jefflovstrom

He has old VHS video to format. Give him time
Jeff


----------



## jefflovstrom

outofmytree said:


> Ah. Check out this video. You will see that system in action.
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=118813
> 
> It is commonly referred to as an adjustable false crotch. The portawrap is used to ensure the rope is secure and to allow a competent groundie to lower a climber out of the tree in case of an accident. I would not recommend using such a system for a 360 degree pruning job on a palm as you run the risk of cutting the bull rope and dropping yourself out of the tree!  I use it for access only then switch over to a pulley & webbing sling false crotch wrapped around the heart of Washingtonia palms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yale XTC fire works equally well for dragging through the heads of palms due to its close exterior weave. The real challenge lies in dragging the knot which joins the throwline to the climbing line through the head of the palm. I have found that if you get a fair way out from the base so that the line is about 45 degrees to the ground you can "work" the knot through the head with a little practise. Ok, a lot of practise.



Did the customer ask you to leave all that fruit and flowers up there?
Jeff


----------



## jefflovstrom

BTW Eden, we can read your diary. How old are you? 6 or 7?
Jeff


----------



## Bermie

Dishes...dishes...where's my fetting chainsaw...

Unless we have a dishwasher in the wilderness...oh that would be jefflovstrom, and HE's MIA!...come back jeff, I have lotion for your chapped hands sweetie...


----------



## ForTheArborist

That pic of OOMT in that palm is exactly how my WA Fan Palms are going to be cleaned up from now on. Working up through their skirts to the top is just playn dirty. From the crown down... that makes a clean job. Hopefully rope placement isn't a hang up in Fans like in Queens.

OOMT, you always clean up nice here, and you deserve more rep points, but seriously think Papa smurf isn't going to budge for that attack, Brainy. If there were better ways to get any kind of palm, I'm on board with that. I, myself, wrote a "how to" a couple of months ago for how to trim a Date Palm on a ladder with a top handle. There is a little sequence to putting the "charm" on the tree.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary*

Dear Diary,

The strain is definitely beginning to affect morale. Treeco, TMD, and NC have been bickering constantly and have almost come to blows on several occasions. Nobody has a clue what the problem is, but everyone loves to watch a good fight. RF dropped in to say that if he hears one more bedtime story about topping he will kick some butt. Given that RF sleeps in his spurs this threat must be taken seriously.

We have received a word back from the expedition. Apparently they have some information regarding the hallowed "Old School Method for Pruning CI Date Palms", however it is encoded in an ancient language. Our linguists have ruled out Aramaic and Sanskrit and believe it may be a language almost as ancient and extinct, called VHS. They have sent back this tablet which may contain some clues, or maybe it is just Lovstroms birth certificate.






The second hieroglyph in the second line seems to allude to a Washingtonia choking a climber while breaking their back, in the manner described by Magargal et al. The first three symbols on the third line seem to say, ‘If you work on the head of a Phoenix expect tears'. But the last two symbols on that line shows palm fronds falling, in conjunction with a climbing line and this gives me hope.

In God we trust
opcorn:


----------



## outofmytree

jefflovstrom said:


> Did the customer ask you to leave all that fruit and flowers up there?
> Jeff



I see your Jomoco muscle is in perfect working order. Thats the one that both opens your mouth and inserts your foot at the same time. Look at the photograph again. Note the Washingtonia in the background sans fronds? This was 2 removals. The photograph was to illustrate the rigging.


----------



## outofmytree

jefflovstrom said:


> He has old VHS video to format. Give him time
> Jeff



Honestly. You boys have the worst excuses. In the BS sweepstakes I had money on "the dog ate my homework".

What is wrong with posting your own work? There is no surer indication of insecurity than having to borrow names to lend yourselves credibility.

If I ask a question of Treeseer or John Paul Sanborn or Treevet or Olddirty or Ropensaddle or any one of a dozen seasoned veterans they can post a picture of their own work in an hour. I don't put myself in their class but my pictures are up there to be picked apart too. But you pair of "palm experts" have so little of your own evidence that you have to borrow a video of another climber that is so old its in VHS?


----------



## Bermie

Dear Diary,

It's gone on long enough, ET has started posting his anthropological archaeological discoveries on-line...the inner secrets of the tough man tree guys are starting to leak out, the secret of CI palm frond removal is soon to be revealed...then all the posturing will be for naught and the women can come out of the shadows...
I think I'll go put some gaff guards on RF's spurs while he sleeps 'cause I'm about to go check the topping situation


----------



## tree MDS

EdenT said:


> Dear Diary,
> 
> The strain is definitely beginning to affect morale. Treeco, TMD, and NC have been bickering constantly and have almost come to blows on several occasions. Nobody has a clue what the problem is, but everyone loves to watch a good fight. RF dropped in to say that if he hears one more bedtime story about topping he will kick some butt. Given that RF sleeps in his spurs this threat must be taken seriously.
> 
> We have received a word back from the expedition. Apparently they have some information regarding the hallowed "Old School Method for Pruning CI Date Palms", however it is encoded in an ancient language. Our linguists have ruled out Aramaic and Sanskrit and believe it may be a language almost as ancient and extinct, called VHS. They have sent back this tablet which may contain some clues, or maybe it is just Lovstroms birth certificate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second hieroglyph in the second line seems to allude to a Washingtonia choking a climber while breaking their back, in the manner described by Magargal et al. The first three symbols on the third line seem to say, ‘If you work on the head of a Phoenix expect tears'. But the last two symbols on that line shows palm fronds falling, in conjunction with a climbing line and this gives me hope.
> 
> In God we trust
> opcorn:



I dont know who this dude is, or where he came from, but I say he's a welcomed addition to Fight Club...I mean AS.


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

tree MDS said:


> I dont know who this dude is, or where he came from, but I say he's a welcomed addition to Fight Club...I mean AS.



Epic commentator and reader of the Plates of Nephi


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary*

Dear Diary,

The tablet we have received has bought hope with it. The men are fighting less and once more focused on the task at hand. I give thanks to God. Our company includes some gifted arborists who have been tutored by the Mensa. Their minds have been invaluable in figuring out the code which may bring this epic quest to a conclusion. I have hopes that the entire tablet will be deciphered by next year.

Roots made the first breakthrough when he recognised the language it is written in as Nephite or a dialect of it. My initial guesses it seems were relatively close to the mark. The symbol for a palm tree is



and when combined with the symbol for a person



form



which does indeed depict a person having their thoracic vertebra dislocated and their ability to respire compromised. This led to the further realisation that what I initially thought was a climbing line



was in fact a pole belt and the first glyph is showing whereabouts it should be set when cleaning the palm tree.

One other breakthrough was made revealing the surprising technological achievements of the Nephites which was that this symbol



is quite clearly a rear handled chainsaw.

I must get back to work now. Every minute lost is a minute longer that this quest will continue.

In God we trust
opcorn:


----------



## treevet

tree MDS said:


> I dont know who this dude is, or where he came from, but I say he's a welcomed addition to Fight Club...I mean AS.



Rule #1.....we don't mention Arboristsite (er I mean Fight Club)


----------



## treevet

blah blah blahblah blah blah blah


----------



## Bermie

treevet said:


> blah blah blahblah blah blah blah



Ah sour grapes...this is FUNNY!:biggrinbounce2:
Somebody rep the ET, cause I'm out at the moment


----------



## treevet

Bermie said:


> Ah sour grapes...this is FUNNY!:biggrinbounce2:
> Somebody rep the ET, cause I'm out at the moment



no sour grapes....just a vague attempt at humor by disguising the message in the edit part of the post.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary*

Dear Diary, 

The men are in great spirits. Appointing SoM as morale officer has paid off manyfold however I do have some reservations. Firstly, while it is true that the men have stopped fighting, NC and TMD are now swapping recipes and discussing gluten free 'lifestyles'. I find this slightly disturbing.

Secondly, SoM has ventured into paganism and idolatry by creating a temple of minor gods. While this is keeping morale up, I fear we may turn God against us with this heretical worship.

Work is progressing well in deciphering the Nephite writings. The Nephite were a morbid lot and obsessed with death as are many who deal with Phoenix palms . The latest translations are -





This is the symbol for death, or a dead person.




This is thought to be the symbol for a coffin. It is strange because according to the academic texts there should be a circle inside it to indicate the person within.




This image shows an unburied corpse. When it is drawn in a coffin the arms are omitted. This offers some insight as to the lack of occupant in the previous symbol. 




This is the image for a burial mound or grave.





This hieroglyph is the most perplexing. We can not find anything even close to it in the reference texts. We shall just have to persevere.

In God we trust
opcorn:


----------



## jefflovstrom

EDEN, I kinda feel like reppin you for all the work you have obviosly got so caught up in. (like the way I spell obviosly-- like the Egyptians!) 

Dear Diary, I hope some day I can learn? I know I can if they will teach me-- oh, I hope they like me because I really want to know!

Now to OOMT, you should get back in your tree, why would you think someone is a liar or fake unless you are? Why would guys that have been climbing since the 70"s and doing production ( not like in "production "meaning- bringing a film crew-duh!. BTW- I will cut hairs!
Jeff Lovstrom
Heres your rep Eden


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary*

Dear Diary

The weather continues to deteriorate. We are running low on supplies. Our best runner, Snowy Mike, was unable to make it to the supply base today, despite his pony express heritage. He will attempt the journey again on the morrow.

I am convinced there is a spy in the camp. I think they may even have read my journal. Lovstrom seems to know my every thought in advance. Maybe I am just imagining it and my mind is succumbing to the burden of work, in which we must all partake, in order to solve the mysteries of the Nephite tablet.

Last night we focused on the animalistic symbols etched into the stone disc. It was eventually decided that there were four, though many argued only three, animal symbols. 

Firstly the easiest to decipher there were the two bird symbols. The first



is quite clearly _Corvus corax_ of the CORVIDAE or common raven. It is thought to be a harbinger, an omen of change. The second



is a _Phoenix flamibilus_ of the MYTHIDAE or common phoenix, believed to symbolise rebirth and a new beginning by many academics. In this context however I suspect that a more literal interpretation may be required.

The next symbol was for what was clearly a member of the CANIDAE.



After consultation with many ancient texts of biological systematics, we discovered it was the now extinct species, _Forpedus giganticus_. This dog was somewhat of a freak in the canine family because its front legs were almost twice as long as its back legs. This had a debilitating effect on its locomotive abilities, and as a result it was a carrion feeder.

The symbol which caused the most consternation was this.



It has caused somewhat of a rift. On the one side there are those who say it’s an animal and when asked its binomial designation offer ‘frozen turkey’. The other side maintain it is a depiction of the digestive organs of a rat. As both of these possibilities seem unlikely I am keeping an open mind. 

I must return to my work.

In God we trust.
opcorn:


----------



## jefflovstrom

I don't know what to say!
Jeff


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary*

Dear Diary,

BLASPHEMY!!! I have heard rumor that SoM has further transgressed the limits of our monotheistic beliefs. He has developed a cult following and they worship climbers who have overly developed gonad structures. They have even appointed a Tribal Shaman. Treevet however seems unconcerned. He says that all climbing lines lead to the one true God. He knows this ‘Tribal Shaman’ and says he is a climber of great repute and a man of peace. I am sure this will create problems later on but for the moment will accept Treevet’s counsel for tolerance.

Work has progressed well today as we focused on the culture of the Nephite. I suppose it is our shared human link that made these concepts so easy to identify. The first symbol we deciphered was what I initially took to be tears



and I was once again proven correct. This symbol indicates sorrow, sadness or grief. 

This symbol,



is a depiction of two plates (of food) and translates to a dinner, or meal, possibly a formal affair.

The lightning bolt



has quite negative connotations and implies a really bad thing, or disaster of some kind.

The Nephite never cease to amaze me. I was astounded to learn that they were accomplished physicians and the symbol



means medicine. It is formed by the depiction of an early razor blade and spoon no doubt utilized in the preparation of their ancient pharmaceuticals.

The last symbol translated today was slightly more troublesome.



We initially took it to be an eye, but upon further investigation discovered it had darker and more sinister connotations. It literally translates to ‘the dead eyes open’ and refers to an unhappy spirit or a soul that cannot lay down to rest. I normally pay little heed to stories of ghosts but this symbol makes me feel uneasy.

I have to turn in now. We have an early start tomorrow.

In God we trust
opcorn:


----------



## ForTheArborist

You might have come undone here. Let's not get out there tooooo far.

For Pete's sake, snap out of it, son.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary Part 1 of 2*

Dear Diary,
I have given a commitment to the men to have this tablet deciphered by New Years Day and by God I will live up to that promise. In truth I am exhausted but I dare not let anyone see what this quest is costing me lest they lose heart themselves. Of course there are the naysayers in our ranks but little heed is given to them by anyone. On a more positive note our camp has grown to well over a hundred able bodied, sharp minded, superbly trained Arborists. Given that in the words of some, I am merely a ‘want to be arborist’, I am honored by the commitment and loyalty of this superb group of climbing men and women.

I have just been informed that the entire scholarly contingent decided to continue work around the clock, while I slept. Not only that but many of their number refuse to stand down from duty even now and continue their labors. As a result we have made extra progress.

The scholars spent most of the night working on the units of measure used by the Nephite in day to day life. The symbol



is a depiction of three halflegs. A halfleg is equivalent to the approximate distance between the ankle and the knee. Furthermore they used a binary number system so two halflegs are equal to a leg (rather than 10 as would occur in our own decimal system of counting. This depiction shows three halflegs or one halfleg and one leg.

The symbol



is a measuring stick to show an objects relative height. Where two appear within a single line such as here it is a comparative value to show how much something has grown or shrunk.

The star symbol



interestingly has nothing to do with astronomy but is more concerned with a measure of the skills and experience of a person. A star indicates a person of great skill and/or experience.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary Part 2 of 2*

The next area of work was performed on domestic objects that are recorded in great detail in the Nephite translation texts.

The Nephite recorded their beds by drawing a horizontal block. If the bed was occupied then, just like with the coffin a circle was drawn above it. The symbol



also has a peculiar bump drawn on top of the bed. After many hours of tedious study a fable about a princess with a pea in her bed revealed that they were trying to illustrate an uncomfortable bed, perhaps with lumps in it.
The next symbol decoded was



which as anybody can see is a portal or door. Apparently this was the Nephite way of indicating time. If the door was drawn closed as it is here it indicated the morning when the Nephite went off to work, closing their dwellings until such a time when they returned home, when the door was depicted open.
The



which everyone initially thought was a grand piano is actually the depiction for a set of stairs or steps.
Finally the symbol which had been perplexing us



was finally solved by RopeN. The scholars were arguing vociferously at about 3am when they woke RopeN up. He swaggered into their tent jangling his spurs, with a top handled saw slung real low on his hip and being a man of few words said ‘what?’ The terrified scholars could barely even speak and simply showed him the tablet and pointed to the contentious mark. He looked it over for a moment and then said ‘typo, now shut the hell up’ and left. The academics immediately saw that the ancient Nephite scribe had indeed made a typo whilst trying to depict a grave symbol and recreated the same symbol without the typo immediately below the error.

I must get to work now.

In God we trust
opcorn:


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

Now I wouldn't Argue with a sage like Ropensaddle, but that



is obviously a Washingtonian palm frond with the infamous broken petiole that causes the dangerous cascade


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

worship climbers who have overly developed gonad structures.



and the oposite symbol for All others like myself that are skeered of them nasty Phoenix


----------



## treevet

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> worship climbers who have overly developed gonad structures.
> 
> 
> 
> and the oposite symbol for
> 
> All others like myself that are skeered of them nasty



shouldn't this symbol, the opposite of the above symbol, be arranged perpendicular to how you have it?


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

*Mind in the Gutter*



treevet said:


> shouldn't this symbol, the opposite of the above symbol, be arranged perpendicular to how you have it?



I don't know what your talking about I was thinking the opposite was just lip service.


----------



## treevet

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> I don't know what your talking about I was thinking the opposite was just lip service.



That sounds fishy to me.


----------



## jomoco

While this thread is derailing towards the angel moroni in salt lake city, I thought it might be interesting to lend a local's perspective on mex fan palms.

The danger of bags rotting off the main trunk and dropping onto climbers below them is well known among SoCal veteran arborists.

Even as a teen I quickly realised that top down was the prime ticket to speed and efficiency in wash fans, and that a 40 foot ladder was a highway to money heaven in over 50 percent of the fans in SOCal.

Then there was the trick of parking the chiptruck next to the palm and placing the ladder on the roof of the dumpbox to gain an extra 10-12 feet!

A very tall wiry groundmen working for my brothers in LA, had a strange genetic makeup that gave him the appearance of an overgrown elf, and therefore very little luck with the ladies of the 80's.

Borrowing my brother's equipment, he does a weekend fan palm job for himself, using the ladder on the dumpbox routine, which still leaves him 5 feet short of the green fronds over 50 feet up. So rather than belting in there and pruning his way up, he climbs off the ladder towards the head confident he can reach the top before belting in. But while free climbing towards the green head a rat ran up his arm startling him to the point he let go and fell about 15 feet before hitting the ladder with his face, slowing him enough to save his life after bouncing off the ladder a few times before hitting the ground in pieces.

But after 6 months of plastic surgery rebuilding his face and knitting his overgrown bones back together, he came out of the experience considerably more handsome atleast facially, and babes much easier for him to obtain, and life in general for him atleast, much better and gratifying!

True story!

Must have something to do with Californication!

jomoco


----------



## jefflovstrom

He cannot be more pretty than you- oh, you are not pretty! 
Jeff


----------



## treevet

this might be the tech he was in need of jomoco....(funny what you run into when you are bored)

http://www.wendmag.com/blog/2009/12/25/palm-tree-climbing-in-indonesia/


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary*

Dear Diary,
The excitement in the camp as we draw closer to the conclusion of our task is palpable. It is causing some problems however. Even seasoned officers such as Treevet and Roots are attempting to second guess the scholarly translations of the Nephite message. While their efforts in maintaining morale and making breakthroughs at critical times has been fantastic, I fear a loss of discipline at this point could have an adverse impact on our understanding of the Nephite secrets.

The erosion of discipline has already cost us many hours. The newly appointed ‘Tribal Shaman’, supported by a contingent of SoMs large gonad cult came to the research tent and proceeded to interrupt all work. He questioned the interpretation of



as a rear handled chainsaw and ardently maintained it looked more like a hand saw or possibly a pair of pruning secateurs in a pouch. It was only after many hours of vigorous exchange that one of the academics realised that the Tribal Shaman was looking at the symbol from the wrong direction, backwards in fact. The academic redrew the symbol on a piece of parchment like this



, at which point even the Tribal Shaman had to begrudgingly admit that the similarity to a Huskie 262xp with a 20” bar was irrefutable. 

The delay cost us a great deal of time and as a result we only managed to translate one other symbol. Fortunately we are close to our goal so provided we have no further distractions we should still be able to realise our aims. 

The one symbol we managed to translate was



. First impressions were that it was a Triffid but we decided to reassess when Roots armed himself with two top handled saws and refused to come out of his tent. By the conclusion of the evenings study we had determined it was in fact the flowering head of a palm.

We are within striking distance of our goal now. We only have three more symbols to translate, and one ‘frozen turkey / rats digestive system’ to re-evaluate. Our work does not stop there however. All that we have achieved so far is a list of words and concepts. Our final task will be the contextual interpretation. If everything proceeds smoothly now, I am confident we shall know the Nephite palm pruning secrets on New Year’s Day. I pray that it is so. I am going to take a new year’s resolution to never look at a Nephite plate again unless it is through the scope of an RPG.

In God we trust
opcorn:


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

jomoco said:


> While this thread is derailing towards the angel moroni in salt lake city, I thought it might be interesting to lend a local's perspective on mex fan palms.
> 
> The danger of bags rotting off the main trunk and dropping onto climbers below them is well known among SoCal veteran arborists.
> 
> Even as a teen I quickly realised that top down was the prime ticket to speed and efficiency in wash fans, and that a 40 foot ladder was a highway to money heaven in over 50 percent of the fans in SOCal.
> 
> Then there was the trick of parking the chiptruck next to the palm and placing the ladder on the roof of the dumpbox to gain an extra 10-12 feet!
> 
> A very tall wiry groundmen working for my brothers in LA, had a strange genetic makeup that gave him the appearance of an overgrown elf, and therefore very little luck with the ladies of the 80's.
> 
> Borrowing my brother's equipment, he does a weekend fan palm job for himself, using the ladder on the dumpbox routine, which still leaves him 5 feet short of the green fronds over 50 feet up. So rather than belting in there and pruning his way up, he climbs off the ladder towards the head confident he can reach the top before belting in. But while free climbing towards the green head a rat ran up his arm startling him to the point he let go and fell about 15 feet before hitting the ladder with his face, slowing him enough to save his life after bouncing off the ladder a few times before hitting the ground in pieces.
> 
> But after 6 months of plastic surgery rebuilding his face and knitting his overgrown bones back together, he came out of the experience considerably more handsome atleast facially, and babes much easier for him to obtain, and life in general for him atleast, much better and gratifying!
> 
> True story!
> 
> Must have something to do with Californication!
> 
> jomoco



Now Thats a hellofastory


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary*

Dear Diary,
We have completed as much as we can the literal translation of the Nephite pictograms. I have stood the men down to enjoy the festivities and see in the New Year. God knows they have earned the rest. I shall be joining the festivities myself as soon as I have recorded the last of our findings.

The last of the hieroglyphs we worked on today were concerned with human anatomy. Many of the men were quite embarrassed when it was revealed that the symbol



is actually a set of gonads. The reference to this pictogram was found in the ancient Nephite text ‘How to make Eunuchs for Dummies’. The glyph shown usually depicts the removal of the gonads once an applicant has successfully applied for the position as a court eunuch.
The symbol



is actually a combination of three other symbols. It is the lower arm and hand of a person which is normally depicted as



and the diagonal lines where the hand should be comes from the cooking texts and means mince, or minced. The inclusion of the ‘bad thing’ symbol makes us believe that the arm pictured has been very badly injured.
The final anatomical symbol is



. Once again the Nephite have opted for a non standard usage of their language. The waving hand is normally attached to a body and symbolises a bidding of farewell. The meaning of it drawn without the rest of the person attached is unclear but I am sure that clarity will be achieved in the full contextual translation.
We can still find no reference to the



symbol. I still do not subscribe to either the frozen turkey / rats digestive system interpretation. The lead researcher has once again assured me that once we understand the full context of the symbol its meaning will become clear. We shall all just have to wait until the final task is completed.

I shall now attend the festivities. Tonight before I turn in I shall pray that all Arborists in our camp and all around the world have a safe, healthy and prosperous new year and that their good fortune extends to their families and friends. Tomorrow we shall know the Nephite secrets of palm tree pruning.

In God we trust
opcorn:


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary Part 1 of 7*

Dear Diary,
The New Year has arrived and with it we have completed the translation and interpretation of the Nephite Plate. There is a deep sense of disappointment running through the entire camp. My own disappointment is overshadowed by the fact that we have completed this herculean task and I give thanks to God for that. The Nephite plate, rather than being an instructional manual for the safe and economical pruning of palm trees, is a morbid safety warning issued to the oldest of the old school Arborists. Herein follows a true and accurate record of the results of our study.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary Part 2 of 7*








This is a warning from those unhappy souls who have died and been buried in graves to anybody who owns a chainsaw. 




It does not matter whether you are a giant or a star climber, if you are thinking of trimming palms you need to read and heed this warning.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary Part 3 of 7*







Giant dogs with huge front paws will make a meal of your remains, 




because they won’t be able to fit your corpse into a coffin once a killer palm tree has bent you in half and choked you to death.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary Part 4 of 7*







You will be whole and healthy when you start work in the morning,




but you will end the day headed for the grave and you will not fill your coffin,




because a really bad thing will happen and there will be less of you and your favorite bits will be buried in a separate grave, by themselves.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary Part 5 of 7*







If you try to prune the flowering heads of a phoenix palm with a rear handled saw your spirit will be eternally unhappy because you won’t even get buried. 




Instead you will lie forever in a bed of thorns because no one will ever be able to recover your body from the crown of the palm tree.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary Part 6 of 7*







You will find yourself in a world of grief if you attempt to prune any tree with a chainsaw off a ladder and ultimately you will find yourself in a grave. 




You must be on drugs if you think you can prune a phoenix palm by climbing it with a pole belt.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary Part 7 of 7*







If you ignore this safety warning you could possibly injure one arm so badly it will be mincemeat and your other arm will wave goodbye to you, as you watch it and one and a halflegs fall to the ground. 




You will become a quadruple amputee who spends all day screaming for more drugs to control the pain.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary Part 8 of 7*

While our ambitions have not yet been realised we know our efforts have not been in vain. The search for a safe and economical method for pruning CI date palms will go on. Tomorrow I have a meeting with the man they call ‘the slayer’. He has a reputation of great courage. Apparently he has a proposal for trimming CI Date Palms he wishes to discuss with me.

I must go and check on the men now. Roots condition has deteriorated further. Despite the cold, he is constantly sweating and his hands shake uncontrollably. The Doc thinks it may be full blown palm fever or ‘The Fear’ as it is known in tropical parts of the world.

In God we trust
opcorn:


----------



## treevet

EdenT said:


> If you ignore this safety warning you could possibly injure one arm so badly it will be mincemeat and your other arm will wave goodbye to you, as you watch it and one and a halflegs fall to the ground.



If you Jomoco or Jeff ever catch this on video on hel-cam we would love you to post this on here as other promised vid seems reticent. This would be for instructional purposes only )) ofcourse.


----------



## outofmytree

Being respectful of my (Nephite) elders I shall henceforth leave my spurs at home and prune CI Dates with a bucket or a polesaw. Oh wait, that's what I already do.


----------



## jefflovstrom

Feel good young man, for someday you may have to actually climb one. Hope you dont get scared!
Jeff


----------



## outofmytree

jefflovstrom said:


> Feel good young man, for someday you may have to actually climb one. Hope you dont get scared!
> Jeff



Feel good bragging man for someday you may actually have to get out of the office chair and climb anything at all. Hope you don't get scared! Or get a blister on your soft pudgy hands.


----------



## EdenT

*Dear Diary*

Dear Diary,

I have met with the one they call the slayer. His reputation is an understatement. What is true, is that what he lacks in sanity, he more than makes up for with suicidal recklessness. His proposal was based on us building a ladder long enough to reach over the top of a Phoenix with a climbing rope suspended from it. He would then rappel head first down the rope, using his feet to control his prussic, and prune the flowering heads off a CI date palm by swinging a chainsaw around his head. While the idea did have some theatrical merit, I vetoed it because there was no available second tip. 

Somehow this led to a rumour being started in the camp that I had vetoed the idea because CI date palms can leap from the ground and pluck climbers from the air. Doc further exacerbated the resulting hysteria by showing a horror film of a _Washingtonia robusta_ that appeared to do exactly that. After hearing the rumour and then watching the film, Roots had to be confined under sedation in the medical tent, for his own safety.

On the subject of questionable sanity an intriguing missive has reached me from Jomoco. A self proclaimed paragon of worker safety, he related what he considered to be an amusing anecdote. It was about an untrained groundie being lent climbing equipment by members of Jomoco’s own family. The punch line of his story was that after suffering life threatening injuries, the workers physical appearance improved as a result of prolonged treatment involving plastic surgery. I found this in very poor taste. Furthermore he is still focused on palmates rather than pinnates which is the point, (pardon the pun) of our quest.

In God we trust 
opcorn:


----------



## jefflovstrom

outofmytree said:


> Feel good bragging man for someday you may actually have to get out of the office chair and climb anything at all. Hope you don't get scared! Or get a blister on your soft pudgy hands.



Sorry, but I have climbed more trees than you ever will. 28 years before I went for management. 
Jeff


----------



## tree MDS

jefflovstrom said:


> Sorry, but I have climbed more trees than you ever will. 28 years before I went for management.
> Jeff



Gotta respect that.


----------



## jefflovstrom

tree MDS said:


> Gotta respect that.



Thanks treeMDS, I have not climbed production in 5 years, But I never before that had dis-respect for those who move up. My experience helps me and and my guys. They dont need a young, eager, manager with little or no experience of climbing telling them what to do. 
Jeff


----------



## outofmytree

jefflovstrom said:


> Thanks treeMDS, I have not climbed production in 5 years, But I never before that had dis-respect for those who move up. My experience helps me and and my guys. They dont need a young, eager, manager with little or no experience of climbing telling them what to do.
> Jeff



Respect is a two way street. From the very start of this thread first Jomoco and then yourself poured scorn on anyone who pruned CI Dates with a polesaw. It's a little late to start crying about being disrespected.

If you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen princess.


----------



## jefflovstrom

I never scorned anyone. Get it straight fair maiden. For some reason, you dont like me, I dont care, but I and Jon and many others have done what we say, and you think we lie because we did not bring a production crew (video production crew), I dont plan the day with that in mind. In the mean-time, I dont lie and I have met Jon, you have not. We dont lie. If we say we do it , we do it.( in my case, did it) Probably more times than you ever wiped your butt. Yeah, Respect is a two way street.
Jeff
Happy New Year


----------



## outofmytree

jefflovstrom said:


> I never scorned anyone. Get it straight fair maiden. For some reason, you dont like me, I dont care, but I and Jon and many others have done what we say, and you think we lie because we did not bring a production crew (video production crew), I dont plan the day with that in mind. In the mean-time, *I dont lie *and I have met Jon, you have not. We dont lie. If we say we do it , we do it.( in my case, did it) Probably more times than you ever wiped your butt. Yeah, Respect is a two way street.
> Jeff
> Happy New Year



Oh yes you do! Either that or the pressure of your office chair is cutting off the circulation to your brain.

Here in post #16 is your bf's first stab at almost everyone on the planet that prunes CI dates.

Followed by post #32 where you back your boy up and by default cast the same aspersions of unprofessionalism at the same group of arborists.



> jefflovstrom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by jomoco
> Yeah, well there are obviously thousands of pros capable of pruning or removing date palms without getting impaled by them, even after pruning thousands of them for decades.
> 
> Brush up on your pruning techniques and put away the stupid polesaws!
> 
> Nothing about palms are easy, and date palms will separate the men from the boys real quick in my experience here in SoCal.
> 
> A pole saw to prune a date palm practically guarantees a trip to the hospital.
> 
> All you need is a sharp midsize chainsaw like a 262 xp husky, saddle and gaffs with a steelcore lanyard and the right technique.
> 
> Fan palms kill far more climbers here than date palms do.
> 
> jomoco
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jon is right here, and cool pics of palms that are not canary dates!
> Jeff
> Hundreds of dates and only 2 incidents.
> Jeff
Click to expand...


You were hardcore only a fortnight ago. Don't get all whiny on us now. If you have a safer working technique it would take an hour to throw on some spurs and take a couple of photo's. Come on Lovstrom. With all that experience surely you can remember which side of your boot the spurs go on....


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## jefflovstrom

I am in the office about 5 hours a week, why do you have a problem with some-one that moves up? 
Jeff


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## Bermie

Lordy...give it a break guys...to each his own, the point has been made, literally for some of us...
I STILL hate CI date palms, and finding a technique that may save me from those thorns will NOT make me like them any more, cause the thorns are still there, lurking, plotting, waiting...

Let's all have some 

Ta ta now


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## jefflovstrom

jomoco said:


> Yeah, well there are obviously thousands of pros capable of pruning or removing date palms without getting impaled by them, even after pruning thousands of them for decades.
> 
> Brush up on your pruning techniques and put away the stupid polesaws!
> 
> Nothing about palms are easy, and date palms will separate the men from the boys real quick in my experience here in SoCal.
> 
> A pole saw to prune a date palm practically guarantees a trip to the hospital.
> 
> All you need is a sharp midsize chainsaw like a 262 xp husky, saddle and gaffs with a steelcore lanyard and the right technique.
> 
> Fan palms kill far more climbers here than date palms do.
> 
> jomoco



I wonder where Jon is.
Jeff


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## TreeSurfer

quit #####ing and just prune the damn tree and get the check at the end of the day. if the thorns bug you soo much then charge more. i add on $50 to palms that have thorns and get most of the jobs. home owners are understanding when i explain.


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## mikewhite85

jefflovstrom said:


> I wonder where Jon is.
> Jeff



Haven't seen this post in a while...


I have also wondered where he is too. Hope he's doing alright. What is his company called so we can google him?


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## mikewhite85

I haven't seen outofmytree in a long time either


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## superjunior

jefflovstrom said:


> Thanks treeMDS, I have not climbed production in 5 years, But I never before that had dis-respect for those who move up. My experience helps me and and my guys. They dont need a young, eager, manager with little or no experience of climbing telling them what to do.
> Jeff



old post but what the hay - deserves a like


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## jefflovstrom

mikewhite85 said:


> Haven't seen this post in a while...
> 
> 
> I have also wondered where he is too. Hope he's doing alright. What is his company called so we can google him?



He is a contract climber, last time I saw him was over a year ago.
Jeff


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## TreeSurfer

hey jeff, long time no see buddy. how goes it?


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## jefflovstrom

*Jon was an interesting guy.*



EdenT said:


> Dear Diary,
> 
> It has been 2 days since the expedition by our colleagues Jomoco & Lovstrom departed in search of the hallowed "Old School Method for Pruning CI Date Palms".
> I worry for their well being for we have had no word in the past day.
> The men are in high spirits, but that subversive 'Doc' has been telling stories around the campfire. Roots has said he's staying away from skirt and this concerns me. He could go the same way as SoMe of the other men.
> The popcorn supplies are holding up ok but we had to send runners for soda.
> In God we trust.
> opcorn:


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## jefflovstrom

EdenT said:


> Dear Diary,
> 
> DISASTER!!!
> At dusk last night some of the men found an outgrowth of C. indica. In the ensuing fracas the entire beer ration and most of the popcorn rations were lost. If TMD hears about this, (and the Dan hears everything), the men may learn that the 'Sticks and Stones' idiom is wildly inaccurate. Runners have been dispatched.
> 
> Morale has begun flagging. Treevet, our spiritual leader, has been trying to shore up the men's spirits by showing old Patrick Swayze movies, although he remains ideologically opposed to our quest.
> 
> On a more positive note we have received word back from the Jomoco Lovstrom expedition. Reports are sketchy but some progress is being made. It is clear that the strain is affecting Jomoco as he addressed me as a woman throughout his last missive. I reassured him of my and the men's continued support for his mission. As always we pray to God for their safe and speedy return.
> 
> In God we trust.
> opcorn:




Funny!
Jeff on a Sunday morning reading archives. :biggrin:


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## jefflovstrom

EdenT said:


> Dear Diary,
> Why didn’t I listen to my wife? She told me I was crazy to embark on a venture such as this, with a company composed only of Arborists. After more than a week in the wilderness, we have enough firewood to put an Arborist on the moon, but do you think any-one will do the dishes? The only woman in our company, Bermie, is no help at all. If anyone even mentions dishes within earshot of her, she guns her chainsaw and laughs manically.
> 
> It has come to my attention that NC has an ongoing ‘condition’. In his own words, he has been ‘nuts his whole life’. Given the early age of diagnosis one must question the wisdom of whoever taught this man how to use a chainsaw.
> 
> This endless waiting combined with the festivities is beginning to become predictable. Every evening of inebriated merriment gives way to a morning of bleakness and hangover somehow worse than the last. Despair over the lack of progress in the Jomoco Lovstrom expedition kicks in by late afternoon and this in turn, leads back to inebriation.
> 
> In God we trust
> opcorn:




:hmm3grin2orange:
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom

outofmytree said:


> Honestly. You boys have the worst excuses. In the BS sweepstakes I had money on "the dog ate my homework".
> 
> What is wrong with posting your own work? There is no surer indication of insecurity than having to borrow names to lend yourselves credibility.
> 
> If I ask a question of Treeseer or John Paul Sanborn or Treevet or Olddirty or Ropensaddle or any one of a dozen seasoned veterans they can post a picture of their own work in an hour. I don't put myself in their class but my pictures are up there to be picked apart too. But you pair of "palm experts" have so little of your own evidence that you have to borrow a video of another climber that is so old its in VHS?



I bring this up because I really think you are back on AS with a different name,, maybe the word 'expert' is in your handle. You know who you are.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom

jefflovstrom said:


> I never scorned anyone. Get it straight fair maiden. For some reason, you dont like me, I dont care, but I and Jon and many others have done what we say, and you think we lie because we did not bring a production crew (video production crew), I dont plan the day with that in mind. In the mean-time, I dont lie and I have met Jon, you have not. We dont lie. If we say we do it , we do it.( in my case, did it) Probably more times than you ever wiped your butt. Yeah, Respect is a two way street.
> Jeff
> Happy New Year



If you are here with a different name,,Well, same.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom

mikewhite85 said:


> I haven't seen outofmytree in a long time either



Something tells me he is back,,
Jeff


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## arborjockey

YouTube

Power prune automated palm tree pruner


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