# Elm Identification



## Whitespider (Sep 26, 2011)

I can’t help but notice the confusion surrounding the identification of different types of elm tree. One such example is the nick-name of “pi$$ elm”, which, it seems, is applied to any sort of elm because of smell, or water content, or just local nick-name. Another is the incorrect name of Chinese Elm applied to what is actually the Siberian Elm; the Chinese Elm is very, very different and almost never found growing “in the wild”.

I thought I’d share how I identify the different types of elm. For most of us living live north of the Mason-Dixon there will be three native elms, the American Elm, the Slippery Elm (often called Red Elm) and the Rock Elm. And there will be one common import, the Siberian Elm. The Siberian Elm was widely planted as windbreaks in the mid-west after the dust-bowl days; the Chinese Elm has been planted as an ornamental tree in city yards, parks and such.

First of all, let’s get the Siberian Elm/Chinese Elm confusion out of the way. Both of these imports can be distinguished from the native elms by their much smaller leaves, with the Siberian Elm having leaves less than 3-inches in length, and the Chinese Elm having leaves less than 2-inches in length. Tree structure of the Siberian Elm is similar to the American Elm, but branches grow in a more upward way, lacking the drooping over at the ends, and is always taller than it is wide. The Chinese Elm is smaller and has very unique bark, different than any other elm bark you would normally encounter.
*CHINESE ELM BARK*






The three native elms can be difficult to distinguish, especially if standing-dead and bark-less. The problem is that, depending on growing conditions, any of the three can exhibit tree structure identical to the others.

AMERICAN ELM
Usually crotches low, often at breast height, and normally has several main beams. The crotches form a ‘V’ shape and the branches slowly begin drooping-over as the length increases. Often the American Elm, because of the drooping branch type, will be wider than it is tall, especially if growing in the open or above other trees. The leaves can be smooth to slightly rough, dull green (not shiny) and anywhere from 3 to 8 inches long (the majority being 4-6 inches), even on the same tree. The wood is light colored all the way through, with very little noticeable difference in the heart-wood. The easiest way to identify American Elm is by the bark (if present); removing a piece of bark and breaking it will reveal alternating layers of dark and creamy-white… American Elm is the only native elm with this type of bark.

SLIPPERY ELM (Red Elm)
Usually crotches higher than the American Elm (often over 20 feet), and has fewer main beams (often only 2). The crotches form more of a ‘U’ shape and the branches lack the drooping-over of the American Elm. A mature Slippery Elm will always be taller than it is wide. The leaves are rough, like 60-grit sandpaper, dull green (not shiny) and anywhere from 4 to 7 inches long (the majority being 5-7 inches), even on the same tree. The wood is reddish-brownish in color with a narrow outer white wood. Breaking the bark will reveal the same layering as the American Elm, but without the creamy-white layers.

ROCK ELM
Often does not crotch, growing with a straight, tall trunk, rarely leaning. If it does crotch it will be more in the ‘V’ shape of the American Elm and usually very high up. For the most part, smaller than the American Elm, but can grow to impressive size. The leaves will identify a Rock Elm; being smooth and shiny dark green on top and anywhere from 2 to 4 inches long (the majority being around 3 inches). The canopy is very narrow when compared to other elms, almost cylinder like. Older branches usually have cork-like wings on them. The wood is light colored for 2/3’s or so in, where the center turns much darker. The Rock Elm has the heaviest, densest wood of all the elms. The bark is tight and interlaced, not normally as thick as other elms.
*ROCK ELM WINGS*


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## fordracer (Sep 26, 2011)

glad i ran across this thread,cut this tree this past saturday,and kinda thought it might be elm,but not sure,any help would be greatly appricated,thank you.View attachment 200619
View attachment 200620
View attachment 200621


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## zogger (Sep 26, 2011)

*Rock elm!*

Dang, I think I got some here. Didn't know what it was, although I was guessing an elm subspecies. Thanks, the pictures I am looking at all match! According to wikipedia though, it doesn't exist here, only as far as Tennessee,but I am close to there so maybe this is the current southernmost range. If it ain't rock elm it is some kissin cuzzin.

I've burned some already, it is good, and got my eye on a standing dead right now. Those "wings" on the branches were the giveaway. Just distinctive as all get out. No big ones, all small so far that I have found. Not cutting too many, I like to leave most of the oddball and lesser represented species around here..


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## Whitespider (Sep 26, 2011)

*zogger*,
More likely, beings as you live in Georgia, what you have is Winged Elm, which is much like Rock Elm but usually smaller. Winged Elm is also a hard elm, and is a favored wood for making Hockey Sticks... or so says Wikipedia. The natural range of the Winged Elm begins where the natural range of the Rock Elm ends.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulmus_alata



*fordracer*,
That is some sort of elm, small leaves like the Siberian Elm... but that black bark??? I really don't know what sort of elm that is... maybe some sort of hybrid? Where was it growing?


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## zogger (Sep 26, 2011)

*Maybe*



Whitespider said:


> *zogger*,
> More likely, beings as you live in Georgia, what you have is Winged Elm, which is much like Rock Elm but usually smaller. Winged Elm is also a hard elm, and is a favored wood for making Hockey Sticks... or so says Wikipedia. The natural range of the Winged Elm begins where the natural range of the Rock Elm ends.
> 
> Ulmus alata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
I thought it was elm, but comparing the two pictures of the "wings" on the different elms, the ones here still look more like the rock elm. Either way, burns great, sucks to split, whenever I cut any now I just chunk to size. None of them are all that big..I think...about four years ago I got one maybe 18 inches in diameter. That was sorta growing by itself down a fenceline. Took a long time for the stump to rot out, in fact, some of it is still there. Most of them are 10-12 inches or less, and defintely in the mixed woods, some in pretty decent shade. According to the distribution map though, we are just inside that range for the winged elm, just above that "not here" notched section in NW Georgia. Looks like they don't like the mountains that much, we are more in the just the hilly section.


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## Ronaldo (Sep 26, 2011)

*Elm*

Very good info on the elm species,Whitespider,have always wondered just how exactly to tell them apart.They all seem to burn quite well,dont they!!!

Ron


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## Big_Al (Sep 26, 2011)

I was a little surprised when I first started reading on this site, people actually burned elm voluntarily!! My elderly neighbor had an old pamphlet on woodcutting and different types of firewood. It listed elm as the worst possible wood, don't remember if they were refering to campfires or stoves. It did say low heat, lots of smoke, bad smell. Anyway he believed it completely. Wouldn't have taken it if you offered to deliver and stack it. I tried a few chunks he cut off one of his trees for campfire wood and they weren't bad, held a fire quite a while but did have a distinct smell. No where near as bad as what I'd been told.


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## AIM (Sep 27, 2011)

I have burned train loads of elm over the last several years and have noticed that the smell tends to get much better after it has burned an hour or so. Smell or not I love the stuff. It's to bad I've kinda caught up with much of the standing dead stuff in the woods where I cut. There is still a bunch there but it's mainly the 8" stuff that you have to skip all over the woods to get a truckload.


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## Whitespider (Sep 27, 2011)

Yeah, I've sort'a taken all the easy standing-dead out'a my woodlot also. I still have several big ones standing but they're in places that make a bit more work of it. Last Saturday I felled a big American Elm with five main beams, but because of where it stood it got hung-up in a some other trees and I couldn't get in there with my 4X4. Had to use the winch on my garden tractor and sacrifice a couple of smaller trees to get it down. It came down in a bunch of brush, adding even more time to the job. What should've been a 4-5 hour job turns into most of the day. Got it done though, it's all stacked in the basement, something over a cord and a half.

I've got a big Red Elm standing-dead at the end of the woodlot next to some power lines picked out for next weekend. I'm gonna' need the cable and pulley rigging to bring it down safe... just more time again. If it falls where I'm planning it should lay right down the length of my logging road... no brush should speed things up a bit.

I notice about a half-dozen or so elms looking a bit sick this year, probably be dead next year, so the standing-dead is starting to renew itself again. That DED seems to cycle in and out... more elms start growing and DED returns.


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## fordracer (Sep 27, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> *zogger*,
> More likely, beings as you live in Georgia, what you have is Winged Elm, which is much like Rock Elm but usually smaller. Winged Elm is also a hard elm, and is a favored wood for making Hockey Sticks... or so says Wikipedia. The natural range of the Winged Elm begins where the natural range of the Rock Elm ends.
> 
> Ulmus alata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


 Whitespider,it was growing about 20 feet from a river,a big section broke out of it and fell on a mans lot and he wanted me to take the whole tree down,i split and stacked it on sunday and it split real easy,the wood was very wet and heavy,i was just wondering from looking at some pictures of elm if maybe it was a red elm?idk,but it wound up making a cord plus,will probably be some good wood for winter of 2012.


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## Whitespider (Sep 27, 2011)

It isn't Red Elm, the leaves just ain't right. Those leaves are too shiny, to smooth, to small and the veins are spaced to far apart, Red Elm has dull leaves that feel like course sandpaper. The bark ain't right and the twigs look wrong. And the wood ain't right either, the outer white wood should be much narrower and the inner ain't that bright colored on Red Elm.

It obviously ain't American Elm.

Rock Elm has smaller leaves that are shiny and smooth, but yours still don't look right... too few veins, too far apart, wrong teeth on the leaf edge.... and neither does the bark or wood right.

*ROCK ELM LEAF*





I suspect you have some sort of import or hybrid... maybe the European Field Elm, or maybe European Field Elm/Siberian hybrid... but that's all guessing.


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## J.W Younger (Sep 27, 2011)

I don't know what it is but one species fuzzes up so I don't mess with it. The other splits easy enough with my hydrolic and is about the same in green and dry weight as ash. Its better than sweet gum and popular and about equal with cherry in btu, near as I can tell. From your info I'm guessin either rock or winged. May get a pic tommorrow.


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