# You Guys Looking At New Bandmills,



## Sawyer Rob (Dec 11, 2009)

Did you know Norwood has two new manual bandmills coming out? The bigger one will be out in a few weeks or so, and has a LOT of new features. You can see a pict of it on their website.

Anyway, it will be bigger and stiffer than the LM2000, with new features, like a new auto manual clutch, and a whole new blade guide system, also a 10hp 1ph electric motor will be available to power it.

It looks like it will be a pretty cool new design mill to me, with lots of new features.

Rob


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## Can8ianTimber (Dec 11, 2009)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Did you know Norwood has two new manual bandmills coming out? The bigger one will be out in a few weeks or so, and has a LOT of new features. You can see a pict of it on their website.
> 
> Anyway, it will be bigger and stiffer than the LM2000, with new features, like a new auto manual clutch, and a whole new blade guide system, also a 10hp 1ph electric motor will be available to power it.
> 
> ...



Yeah looks cool, I called them and it is about $6,500 with the promo discount of $500 plus shipping. That puts the specs around the same as the TK1220 but the price is more by about $700. I don't know if it is worth that much more.

Here is my current bandmill comparison chart. Give me your opinions on my opinion.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 11, 2009)

Can8ianTimber said:


> Yeah looks cool, I called them and it is about $6,500 with the promo discount of $500 plus shipping. That puts the specs around the same as the TK1220 but the price is more by about $700. I don't know if it is worth that much more.
> 
> Here is my current bandmill comparison chart. Give me your opinions on my opinion.



I didn't like the TK i ran. Never ran an Oscar... I have run several different LT15's in different variations, and the latest one would be my second choise after the LM2000.

From what i know of the MX, i'm betting it will blow away the 2000, so there ya go... The guides alone are all new, i've seen them. They are something completely new, and VERY quiet. Water will not affect them either, they should last a LONG time. 

I'm betting the new MX34 will put a lot of LM2000's on the used market, and i can't think of a better way to get into bandmilling, that buying one of them!

Rob


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## Can8ianTimber (Dec 11, 2009)

See that is my problem. I have only run a Lucus slaber, Alaskan and a LT 70. My opinion on all these mills is based on specs and what I see on the web. The width of cut is so big for me b/c I usually want to cut wide. 

So what was it that you did not like about the TK and what did you like about the LM2000?


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 11, 2009)

Then buy a slabber, as a bandmill is best used for grade sawing, where quality of lumber and recovery are most important. Any bandmill that will cut out a 24" wide board, is plenty wide.

BTW, i was looking over your number rateing system... The MX34 saws a longer log, has more hp, and doesn't have that dreaded rope or cable, yet you didn't give it extra points for those? Also, Norwoods warr. in second to noone.

Rob


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## Rodney Sinclair (Dec 11, 2009)

Sawyer Rob said:


> and doesn't have that dreaded rope or cable
> 
> Rob



Dreaded? Hell, I think that cable is great to have.

Rodney


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## deeker (Dec 11, 2009)

Can8ianTimber said:


> See that is my problem. I have only run a Lucus slaber, Alaskan and a LT 70. My opinion on all these mills is based on specs and what I see on the web. The width of cut is so big for me b/c I usually want to cut wide.
> 
> So what was it that you did not like about the TK and what did you like about the LM2000?



I like the Norwoods Briggs and Stratton Vangaurd...with 23 horses...vs the TK 29" cut with 15hp??? No thanks.


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## Backwoods (Dec 12, 2009)

Not that it matters as the Oscar already rated low, but I would not give it extra points for having a 36” wide cut. 24”-26” is standard because that is what the blades can handle with out flexing. In order to go wider a much more sophisticated guide system would be needed, and the Oscar has a light duty guide system. 

Find one of each that you can take a good look at, as the numbers do not show the quality of design and workmanship.


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## Rodney Sinclair (Dec 12, 2009)

deeker said:


> I like the Norwoods Briggs and Stratton Vangaurd...with 23 horses...vs the TK 19" cut with 15hp??? No thanks.



My 1220 TimberKing will cut 29" and I can put what ever motor I want on it. "Thank You"

Rodney


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## deeker (Dec 12, 2009)

Backwoods said:


> Not that it matters as the Oscar already rated low, but I would not give it extra points for having a 36” wide cut. 24”-26” is standard because that is what the blades can handle with out flexing. In order to go wider a much more sophisticated guide system would be needed, and the Oscar has a light duty guide system.
> 
> Find one of each that you can take a good look at, as the numbers do not show the quality of design and workmanship.



Very true.


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## redprospector (Dec 12, 2009)

Rodney Sinclair said:


> My 1220 TimberKing will cut 29" and I can put what ever motor I want on it. "Thank You"
> 
> Rodney



Recon you could squeeze one of these bad boy's on that 1220 without it coming unglued?






Andy


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## Can8ianTimber (Dec 12, 2009)

redprospector said:


> Recon you could squeeze one of these bad boy's on that 1220 without it coming unglued?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What is that thing????


How about a chevy 350. You can pick those up for cheap


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## Backwoods (Dec 12, 2009)

How cheap? I got a friend that is looking for a 350.


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## tjbier (Dec 12, 2009)

Looks like a VW motor to me. Good idea!!


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 13, 2009)

To be honest, I run a LM2000 5-7 days a week with the Honda 20hp on it, and I see features on my LM2000 that the *new* Norwood mill has IMHO taken a step backwards on. My next mill will probably be a Woodmizer (or similar). It looks to me like Norwood is trying to add more splash and dash to their mills for a greater curb appeal, without addressing some seriously frustrating issues for the commercial sawyer. Great for the homeowner, but they need to either get into the commercial market or get out of it, this fence sitting and advertising a homeowner quality mill as a commercial product is bothersome. Ok, I've got my Nomex suit on, flame away, that's just my honest take of the matter at hand.


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## Backwoods (Dec 13, 2009)

Aint nothing wrong with expressing your opinion about your mill. I have a big Orange mill and I feel that there customer service in both Indy and Portland has been less then admirable when I brought up some serious design flaws in the proto type mill that I have.
I do not foresee my next mill being Orange. When you use a mill and maintain it the way it should be you will find its week points.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 13, 2009)

Coalsmoke said:


> To be honest, I run a LM2000 5-7 days a week with the Honda 20hp on it, and I see features on my LM2000 that the *new* Norwood mill has IMHO taken a step backwards on. My next mill will probably be a Woodmizer (or similar). It looks to me like Norwood is trying to add more splash and dash to their mills for a greater curb appeal, without addressing some seriously frustrating issues for the commercial sawyer. Great for the homeowner, but they need to either get into the commercial market or get out of it, this fence sitting and advertising a homeowner quality mill as a commercial product is bothersome. Ok, I've got my Nomex suit on, flame away, that's just my honest take of the matter at hand.



I'm not sure anyone can make firm statemens about the new mill, "without" running one for more than a few cuts, But what do you feel they went backwards on? 

Rob


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## Can8ianTimber (Dec 13, 2009)

Coalsmoke said:


> To be honest, I run a LM2000 5-7 days a week with the Honda 20hp on it, and I see features on my LM2000 that the *new* Norwood mill has IMHO taken a step backwards on. My next mill will probably be a Woodmizer (or similar). It looks to me like Norwood is trying to add more splash and dash to their mills for a greater curb appeal, without addressing some seriously frustrating issues for the commercial sawyer. Great for the homeowner, but they need to either get into the commercial market or get out of it, this fence sitting and advertising a homeowner quality mill as a commercial product is bothersome. Ok, I've got my Nomex suit on, flame away, that's just my honest take of the matter at hand.



So just out of curiosity how many bf can you saw on average in an 8 hour day and in what kind of wood is that?
I handle almost entirly hardwoods. I have a full time job and 3 young kids so my time is very valuble. With that said I have spent about $13,000 in the last 2 years paying others to mill for me so I can't afford to keep that up. I now have some land so getting a mill is finally an option. 

Hey Coalsmoke, I am heading up to visit my parents in Chilliwack for about a week in Christmas. Any chance I could come up and help you saw for a couple hours and exerience the mill? You could look at it like free labor. let me know we will be up there from the 23rd to 27th.


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## deeker (Dec 13, 2009)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I'm not sure anyone can make firm statemens about the new mill, "without" running one for more than a few cuts, But what do you feel they went backwards on?
> 
> Rob



Just from what I have seen. I have doubts about the skinny crossbunks not denting the bigger cants..as is on the new mill, it will dent...and the crossbunks possibly bending when a bigger log is shoved toward one.

It would be nice to see Norwood step up to a hydraulic mill. Loader/turner and feed as well as their dogging system.

Most here know I really like my LM2000, but I want a few more bells and whistles. Not gimmicks.

I have talked with several owners and most agree about a bigger hydraulic offering from Norwood. It is time for it.

What I do like about the new mill is the clutch/water lube/ engine control in one place. And best of all is their new sandwich blade guide. I have been looking into a pair made by Cooks sawmill mfg.

I do want their new planer that fits on the mill. That would be a huge benefit producing timbers. For those that don't want the rough finish.

Another one I would like from Norwood...is a re-saw attachment. One that has rollers pressing down on the board before and just after the cutting blade.

The other mills I would consider now are Cooks and LogMaster.

Norwood offers one hell of a great product.....but..

Just my rants and thoughts...

Kevin


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 14, 2009)

Can8ianTimber said:


> So just out of curiosity how many bf can you saw on average in an 8 hour day and in what kind of wood is that?
> I handle almost entirly hardwoods. I have a full time job and 3 young kids so my time is very valuble. With that said I have spent about $13,000 in the last 2 years paying others to mill for me so I can't afford to keep that up. I now have some land so getting a mill is finally an option.
> 
> Hey Coalsmoke, I am heading up to visit my parents in Chilliwack for about a week in Christmas. Any chance I could come up and help you saw for a couple hours and exerience the mill? You could look at it like free labor. let me know we will be up there from the 23rd to 27th.



Well, when cutting 2x6 for reference, the mill itself is sawing in the 200 - 250 bd/ft an hour range mainly fir and cedar. However, my daily operations, which include pulling 40' logs out of the log deck, cutting to length, loading on the mill, sawing, off-bearing lumber and stacking on outgoing rack, averages out at 100 - 120 bdft / hour, depending on the species. Fir and spruce are a bit slower than cedar, especially if its high grade cedar.

You're welcome to visit. I'm somewhat particular about safety, so make sure you have medical insurance just in case something were to happen. Being a 1 person sawyer, I don't have a floating policy to cover employees. I'll show you all I can show in a couple of hours. At least you'll be able to get a good idea of its strengths and weaknesses.

There is an email link on this page:
http://www.coalsmoke.com/Coalsmokes/Info.html

Send me an email and I'll send you my phone number, etc.


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## redprospector (Dec 14, 2009)

Can8ianTimber said:


> What is that thing????
> 
> 
> How about a chevy 350. You can pick those up for cheap



It's a VW engine, 1600 cc's, dual port, claiming 56 hp stock, but it ain't stock. 
I've ran a few band mill's before from 14 to 24 hp. They all seem to run out of power in bigger Fir logs. That's why I went VW when I built mine. If I didn't solve anything else, I solved the power problem. There were only a couple of mfg's offering bigger engines when I built this one.

Andy


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 15, 2009)

I wanted to add some more, on the new Norwood MX34 bandsawmill... It's been stated above that Norwood went backwards on this new mill, so i'll comment on what i've seen and learned about the "improvements"...

The new mill has more capacity in that it will take bigger diameter logs, and saw from a bigger width cant.

It has all new ceramic guides, that are VERY quiet, that just "samwich" the band, there's no more bearings to make noise or wear out. These things work VERY nice, i've used them.

The bed is stiffer and stronger. The bolt holes have tighter specs., so it goes together easier and straighter, and bolts up square. It's "double brace plated" full length, instead of 4' over lapping plates. Also the new plates wrap around the bottom to make the whole assembly even stronger.

The bunks are thinner, but still strong and come with adjustable stainless bunk covers, standard. I was told that they do NOT have a problem with denting the cants, or bending sideways. Being thinner, the sawdust and debris won't stay on them to affect the accuracy.

The throttle lever is stronger, and has the added function of turning on the water/lube, revving up the motor and applying the clutch all at the same time. At the end of the cut, letting off the throttle stops all three.

Both the water and fuel tanks have been upgraded and are now easier to get to for filling.

Everything is run from the back of the mill, you don't have to walk around to lock/unlock the head, or change the depth of cut. In fact the head lock has been eliminated, along with the torsion spring. The head is now raised and lowered through mechinal advantage, instead of "spring assist".

The setworks are all new, and much easier to read.

The log post are all new, and no longer have the screw in T handles to lock them. I'm told they are strong have a new way to lock them in place and stay dead nuts square.

The clutch is now manual to eliminate any possible slipping. It puts full power to the band.

The band wheels are larger in diameter, and suport the "width" of the band, makeing it cut flatter, there's no longer a narrow belt for the band to ride on.

That's some of the things off the top of my head, that i can think of right now... Does any of that sound like a "step backwards" or a "gimmick" to you??

It looks like one he!! of a mill to me,







Rob


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## KeyStep (Dec 15, 2009)

Many of these improvements sound good. Do you know Rob if Norwood plans to sell a retrofit of some of these features to existing customers? It seems these features would be a big seller to existing customers especially those that have not owned their mill for long and are looking for enhancements now. My experience has been that those manufacturers that allow a degree of backward compatibilty build strong customer loyality and higher sales. It typically is three times easier to sell to existing customers who are satisfied than new customers. After owning my LM-2000 for two seasons I would not want to sell it to buy the new model but would certainly be interested in buying enhancements even if it cost me another 30% or so...


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## deeker (Dec 15, 2009)

When I talked to Dale from Norwood, last week. He said there would probably be retrofits...for some of the improvments...as in the blade guides.

Kevin


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 15, 2009)

KeyStep said:


> Many of these improvements sound good. Do you know Rob if Norwood plans to sell a retrofit of some of these features to existing customers? It seems these features would be a big seller to existing customers especially those that have not owned their mill for long and are looking for enhancements now. My experience has been that those manufacturers that allow a degree of backward compatibilty build strong customer loyality and higher sales. It typically is three times easier to sell to existing customers who are satisfied than new customers. After owning my LM-2000 for two seasons I would not want to sell it to buy the new model but would certainly be interested in buying enhancements even if it cost me another 30% or so...



What i do know is, the LM2000 has been out for nearly 10 years, and the MX34 is a totally new design, just like the LM2000 replaced the LM Mark 4.

Other than the guides, (that i'm NOT sure about) i don't think anything else would fit, or could easily be made to fit. The head and pretty much everything on it, is different. The bunks, log post, track, even the track wheels are different. The whole head is bigger and stiffer...

It doesn't sound or look like a warmed over 2000 to me, it's a totally new design, said to blow the 2000 out of the water.

I didn't talk to Dale, i talked to the guy that designed the mill, this is a NEW platform to take the company forward...

Check out those new guides!






Rob


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## deeker (Dec 15, 2009)

Sawyer Rob said:


> What i do know is, the LM2000 has been out for nearly 10 years, and the MX34 is a totally new design, just like the LM2000 replaced the LM Mark 4.
> 
> Other than the guides, (that i'm NOT sure about) i don't think anything else would fit, or could easily be made to fit. The head and pretty much everything on it, is different. The bunks, log post, track, even the track wheels are different. The whole head is bigger and stiffer...
> 
> ...



I want the new guides. I am moving the key starter to a better location, and the lube control next to the throttle.


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## deeker (Dec 15, 2009)

Rodney Sinclair said:


> My 1220 TimberKing will cut 29" and I can put what ever motor I want on it. "Thank You"
> 
> Rodney



You obviously don't cut as much as the rest of us. A 29" cut with 15hp?? No thanks.


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## KeyStep (Dec 15, 2009)

I hope you are wrong on having no retrofits. It is just not sound thinking if they have not at least thought about the possiblity. It reduces inventory levels, opens up sales to service markets, and increases customer loyalty. I would have to see the actual components before I would be able to recommend retrofits, but I can't see why some of these changes wouldn't work on the LM-2000. Those guides do look nice....


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 15, 2009)

KeyStep said:


> I hope you are wrong on having no retrofits. It is just not sound thinking if they have not at least thought about the possiblity. It reduces inventory levels, opens up sales to service markets, and increases customer loyalty. I would have to see the actual components before I would be able to recommend retrofits, but I can't see why some of these changes wouldn't work on the LM-2000. Those guides do look nice....




There's nothing wrong with the 2000, it does what they advertised it to do, and it has had upgrades built for it right along it's life... I've been sawing on mine for a long time, and i like it a lot. The new MX is just a new platform, just like 2000 was when it came out and replaced my old origional Lumbermate. Not much of anything on the 2000 will fit the origional LM.

Check out the new throttle,






Rob


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## KeyStep (Dec 15, 2009)

I like my Norwood mill too but making improvements backward compatible is important. What I am talking about is how you can significantly improve profits & loyality to existing customers. Take for example all those LM-2000 customers over the past 10 years? How many will now buy the new model and sell their existing model? How many would buy the new enhancements if they could be made available on the LM-2000? Use whatever percentage you like but selling new product features for new and older models is a very important market for successful companies. Better guides, better locking log posts, better ways of watering, throttle control, etc.. may not by themselves seem huge but they can be bothersome on a manual mill and many will feel worth buying. My marketing background leads me to feel that if the features are real improvements many existing customers will want them and the solution will not be to buy a new mill for the majority of customers. My engineering background tells me that if Norwood has ignored this market potential then someone should do the retrofit for them.


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 15, 2009)

*Rob you asked what I don't like about the new mills.*



Sawyer Rob said:


> ...
> 
> It doesn't sound or look like a warmed over 2000 to me, it's a totally new design, said to blow the 2000 out of the water.
> 
> Rob




New design I believe, but blowing the LM2000 out of the water I certainly don't believe. The late model LM2000s are almost perfect as far as manual bandmills go. The only way that I can see the new MX mill blowing the battle tested LM2000 "out of the water" is if every mill purchase comes with 2 free laborers. 

On the new MX mill I see new cross bunks with low angular rigidity, this I don't like, if I really push hard on that log to slide it sideways down the bunks to slide it into position, and a knot catches, that new bunk will bend well before my current square tube bunks will. 

The plastic spout for the water outlet I like, that's good thinking, although I wish it were made of metal though for longevity. I give it 4 months before its broken and being replaced with a 50 cent piece of stainless steel tubing.

The ceramic guides I'll pass on thank you. In fact I know of a sawyer who went from ceramic to a roller guide system because he was getting tired of always dealing with pitch build-up on them. I know that my norwood rollers use 6203RS bearings, a very common item stocked at a local store. When the day comes to replace these, it will take me $10 and I'll have the new ones installed in a couple of hours. If foreign debris breaks one of those ceramic guides, well I better have a spare on hand. I don't want to be down for 4 days while I wait for a new one to come in via express.

I would rather keep my centrifugal clutch over the cable activated one. No setup to worry about, it just works, time after time, and never slips or burns out due to improper adjustment or a cable problem.

The auto water on off is a moot point to me. I am often adjusting my water flow and sometimes using no water, or water every 5th cut, etc. 

The new speed style "automatic" setworks bothers me. If I want to make a 1/16" correction but the nearest setworks notch is at a 1/4" mark, will I still be able to make that fine adjustment? This is important to me and would be a major deal breaker. 

Norwood dropped the 20HP Honda. If anything they should have added a commercial Honda engine, this would be a 25HP fuel injected Honda if I could have my pick. If I were going to buy one of these new MX mills, I would ask it to be supplied sans engine. I am happy with the durability of my Honda and would buy another one now that I have it running smoothly in cold and damp weather.

Norwood says the new mill has oversized bandwheels. They are 20.25" in diameter. They are not oversized. 24" would be fine, something in the 28" range would be oversized. If they were going to change the bandwheel diameter, why not go a couple inches larger to really make a difference on blade life.

Their new "Extreme Duty" log dog system looks like a joke to me. It looks less effective than the current dogging system. What's more, they haven't yet addressed the sawdust binding issues inherent with having one tube slide over the other. 

For whatever reason, they went with an open flat runner system for the carriage to track on. I don't even see any sweepers to clear the tracks. With the current LM2000, sawdust buildup on the tracks is never an issue with its self cleaning design. You can have all the fancy gizmos in the world, but if the carriage won't run true because of sawdust buildup on the tracks, you're back at square one.

I see 3 cables coming off of the same handle, I have enough fun maintaining the one throttle cable in the winter. In fact, the solid steel choke cable became so much of a problem that I removed it completely. My mill is now running like it should be with the choke cable off. Can you imagine having three cables, all having to work properly in unison? No thank you, give me Woodmizer's sealed electrical system any day over that bunch of cables.

As for the roller toe boards, why would they go away from a proven single roller design to 2 small plastic wheels? I think it would work great on smooth hardwood logs, but for the rest of us dealing with irregular and knotty logs on a regular basis, I'm surprised by this.

I see some things on the new mill that I do like. For all those guys needing a portable mill, it has 6 solid looking jacks instead of the old small screw-jack levelers that were prone to bending, and the standard stainless bunk covers is good to see. However, all in all, I am really disappointed that Norwood has gone from producing one of the best manual mills out there, the LM2000, to taking a large step backwards in my opinion with this new MX Pro mill that really does not exhibit many "pro" features at all. 

The only saving grace to me is that when the time comes to upgrade, the Lumbermate 2000s should hold their value well and there are a lot of other serious commercial mill manufactures to consider.


To be honest, the biggest question I have about the new mill is why do you, Rob, seem to be trying to sell the new mill? Are you just excited about it or do you have ulterior motives in the success of the new mill?


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 16, 2009)

Coalsmoke said:


> New design I believe, but blowing the LM2000 out of the water I certainly don't believe. The late model LM2000s are almost perfect as far as manual bandmills go. The only way that I can see the new MX mill blowing the battle tested LM2000 "out of the water" is if every mill purchase comes with 2 free laborers.
> 
> On the new MX mill I see new cross bunks with low angular rigidity, this I don't like, if I really push hard on that log to slide it sideways down the bunks to slide it into position, and a knot catches, that new bunk will bend well before my current square tube bunks will.
> 
> ...




I guess i could go through and remark on all of your points, but you have made those points based on "pictures", and i haven't.

Take those guides for instance. You base your opinion on a picture and/or what someone else told you... I on the other hand have been sawing with ceramic guides for some time, so i KNOW what they are like.

As for your "biggest question"... YES i am excited about the mill, and YES i have "ulterior motives". My ulterior motives are that Norwood is a GREAT company, when i've needed something, they have been prompt with answers or a part. When i call they couldn't be nicer, and if i want to talk to the owner, if he's there (he's semi retired now) he gets on the phone and chats with me. So, i'm treating them just like they have treated me, and i'm passing on new info about something i know something about.

I'm on my second bandmill from Norwood, and both have been great, with the second being MUCH better than the first one. I'm betteing the new MX will be better than the 2000 too.

Rob


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 16, 2009)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I guess i could go through and remark on all of your points, but you have made those points based on "pictures", and i haven't.
> 
> Take those guides for instance. You base your opinion on a picture and/or what someone else told you... I on the other hand have been sawing with ceramic guides for some time, so i KNOW what they are like.
> 
> ...



So how many hours do you have on that new MX mill then Rob? Pictures can tell a lot of a story, if one chooses to have an open mind about them. For example, I don't need 100 hours on the new mill to know that the upgraded leveling jacks are a good idea. I can understand how my critical approach to the new mill is dampening your excitement, my apologies are offered. I still think Norwood is a good company, up there with many of the other fine companies. However, as I stated before, it would have made more sense for them to go to a larger commercial mill, or, at least provide retrofit upgrades for the already very solid and well liked LM2000.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 16, 2009)

Coalsmoke said:


> So how many hours do you have on that new MX mill then Rob? Pictures can tell a lot of a story, if one chooses to have an open mind about them. For example, I don't need 100 hours on the new mill to know that the upgraded leveling jacks are a good idea. I can understand how my critical approach to the new mill is dampening your excitement, my apologies are offered. I still think Norwood is a good company, up there with many of the other fine companies. However, as I stated before, it would have made more sense for them to go to a larger commercial mill, or, at least provide retrofit upgrades for the already very solid and well liked LM2000.



Why would your "opinion" dampen my excitement? I assure you it doesn't, as it's just "your" opinion, and i already have one of those... lol

I saw all of this once before, when the 2000 came out, and we both know how "that" turned out.

Dang, i hate it today, i didn't get anything done, as i have to go to the dentist today, so hope your day has been more productive than mine!

Rob


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 16, 2009)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Why would your "opinion" dampen my excitement? I assure you it doesn't, as it's just "your" opinion, and i already have one of those... lol
> 
> 
> Dang, i hate it today, i didn't get anything done, as i have to go to the dentist today, so hope your day has been more productive than mine!
> ...


Well, I figured one way or another my opinion must be getting to you as you seem hellbent on discrediting it. I'm a straight shooter and call it like I see it. If I see something I like, I'll say so, and if I see things that concern me, likewise I'm not going to gloss over it because its new.

Spent the morning doing paperwork and am heading out to cut 450 bd ft of Alder. Good luck with the dentist.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 16, 2009)

Coalsmoke said:


> Well, I figured one way or another my opinion must be getting to you as you seem hellbent on discrediting it. I'm a straight shooter and call it like I see it. If I see something I like, I'll say so, and if I see things that concern me, likewise I'm not going to gloss over it because its new.
> 
> Spent the morning doing paperwork and am heading out to cut 450 bd ft of Alder. Good luck with the dentist.



Thanks for the good luck, i need it! lol

I'm like you in that i "say it like it is". But, i am willing to try something BEFORE i condemn it, new or not. With what i know about Norwood, and with their track record, i seriously doubt they are going to build a piece of junk, and go backwards.

If i thought those new features were junk or a gimmick, then that's exactly what i'd call them.

We will all know forsure soon though, as they are in production making parts right now, and the new mills will be shipping out soon.

Rob


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## Backwoods (Dec 16, 2009)

Wow things were getting a bit rough here,:sword: but in the end only one had to go to the dentist and the other tore up his paper work so he could mill up some logs. Glad to see you guys worked things out.


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 16, 2009)

Backwoods said:


> Wow things were getting a bit rough here,:sword: but in the end only one had to go to the dentist and the other tore up his paper work so he could mill up some logs. Glad to see you guys worked things out.



Its nothing a little sawdust and time won't fix.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 17, 2009)

Well, we have snow now, and it's been cold for a few days. I no longer like the snow and cold, so i've been doing mostly indoor work.

Before the snow came i did manage to saw out a few stickers, getting started on a short cutoff i had by the mill,






It didn't take long to have a pile of stickers,






Rob


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## TraditionalTool (Dec 19, 2009)

I was asking about the new Norwood mills on another site, and then found this thread.

Honestly, I'm not very impressed with the new mills. They just do not have a lot of new features or options added. Not saying I don't like the Norwood mills, but by the looks of it the price is going up also. I mean, $1000 for about $200 worth of extra features? Maybe I'm missing something here...it's not like they redesigned the entire mill...

For this class of mill, I still like the Cooks MP-32 about the best, and if I buy a new mill I will most likely get the Cooks MP-32.

My preference is to buy a used mill though, and I made an offer on a used LT15 that I haven't heard back from the seller yet. Presumably he didn't like my offer...lol


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 19, 2009)

TraditionalTool said:


> I was asking about the new Norwood mills on another site, and then found this thread.
> 
> Honestly, I'm not very impressed with the new mills. They just do not have a lot of new features or options added. Not saying I don't like the Norwood mills, but by the looks of it the price is going up also. I mean, $1000 for about $200 worth of extra features? Maybe I'm missing something here...it's not like they redesigned the entire mill...
> 
> ...



Yup, you ARE missing something here.

First of all, the designer of the new mill told me told me they DID redesign the WHOLE mill. He also said there WOULD be an increase in price, but not a thousand dollar increase.

Personally, i see a heck of a lot more than $200.00 worth of new features.

Rob


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## TraditionalTool (Dec 19, 2009)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Personally, i see a heck of a lot more than $200.00 worth of new features.


Like what? The extra width is about the biggest addition. The other fixes were mostly to bring the mills up to par with others in it's class, no?

There are several mills in the price range as the MX34, the Cooks MP-32, TimberKing 1220, Woodmizer LT15, not to mention the less popular mills like the Linn or Hudson, for instance. What is so new and earth shattering with the new MX34 that I'm missing?


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 20, 2009)

TraditionalTool said:


> Like what? The extra width is about the biggest addition. The other fixes were mostly to bring the mills up to par with others in it's class, no?
> 
> There are several mills in the price range as the MX34, the Cooks MP-32, TimberKing 1220, Woodmizer LT15, not to mention the less popular mills like the Linn or Hudson, for instance. What is so new and earth shattering with the new MX34 that I'm missing?



Well, have you sawn on all of these mills? Only the latest LT15 is anywhere near the 2000 and i believe the MX will be more mill than the 2000 is. As for the MP-32 cooks. The 2000 specs beat that mill too, so there ya go.

BUT, i'll compare it to the MX for you. The MX will saw a longer, bigger log, a wider cant, has more std. hp, has bigger band wheels, and will be cheaper to add options to.

You will have to add options to the cooks to get it up to the MX in std. HP alone. (12hp vs 16hp) And it still won't mill as big of logs.

As for earth shattering, i'd call the new clutch, new setworks, new guides and a new stiffer head design pretty earth shattering, and that's just the beginning.

Rob


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## TraditionalTool (Dec 20, 2009)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Well, have you sawn on all of these mills? Only the latest LT15 is anywhere near the 2000 and i believe the MX will be more mill than the 2000 is. As for the MP-32 cooks. The 2000 specs beat that mill too, so there ya go.


What do you mean that the 2000 will beat the MP-32? It's not about having the only mill that can do the job, most of these mill will handle the load I need to handle, so any of them could make a decent choice.

One downside for me is the bed/extensions for the Norwood products, although I have to admit the cross members do look stronger to me on the 2000, the MX34 is probably as strong or I doubt Norwood would replace it with them. The problem is that it would be difficult to fabricate your own extensions, so in this case you need to rely on Norwood for them, and $100/ft is not cheap. For the work I would like to ultimately do with the mill, I would need at least 32 feet, with the Norwood it requires 5 extensions plus freight to get one to 33'.


Sawyer Rob said:


> BUT, i'll compare it to the MX for you. The MX will saw a longer, bigger log, a wider cant, has more std. hp, has bigger band wheels, and will be cheaper to add options to.


I did notice the band wheels were bigger, I will give it that...and I noticed the ceramic guides, and familiar with ceramic. But other guides can be adapted to the 2000. The cooling setup looks simpler and possibly better but also something that can be adapted later, on a 2000 for instance.


Sawyer Rob said:


> You will have to add options to the cooks to get it up to the MX in std. HP alone. (12hp vs 16hp) And it still won't mill as big of logs.


You are correct, I was looking at the basic MP-32 with the 30HP engine, the cost of that is about $7300, shipping is about $700, so $8k.


Sawyer Rob said:


> As for earth shattering, i'd call the new clutch, new setworks, new guides and a new stiffer head design pretty earth shattering, and that's just the beginning.


Clutch might be worth something, but I haven't heard people complaining about the old clutch, and don't see a mass failure on them.

I know you see the new features from the viewpoint of a Norwood owner, but I see them from the view of a potential owner, these are all features. Most of the mills have similar features, none are 100% comparable.

To toss back some of my reasoning on liking the Cooks MP-32 for my needs (we all have our own, I recognize that), it has a solid construction that can be duplicated pretty easily out of square tube, and that is a plus for the LT15, it can be extended by the DIY owner more easily, IMO.

Both the MP-32 and LT15 have a power feed option, and I don't believe that power is needed but feel that you will get more consistent looking boards by having it. That is something that is a sacrifice on the Norwood, but not a deal breaker for me. If I find another used Norwood for what I feel is a reasonable price within driving distance, I would get it. There's a nice sounding one over on the forestry forum but back east in PA or somewhere...it also had the bigger engine. I would buy a small engine mill, with the hopes to upgrade the engine. Ideally I would like to have at least a 20HP engine.

I have not spent a lot of time on these small mills, and have been looking mostly for a used one. The mill I have experience on was all mechanical, amish built, with a 30HP diesel engine. I don't need that much mill though...and am limited on what I want to spend. I would like to keep it down between $3500-$5000, but if I buy new I have been leaning towards the MP-32 with the 30HP, and extend it myself.


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 20, 2009)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Well, have you sawn on all of these mills? Only the latest LT15 is anywhere near the 2000 and i believe the MX will be more mill than the 2000 is. As for the MP-32 cooks. The 2000 specs beat that mill too, so there ya go.
> 
> BUT, i'll compare it to the MX for you. The MX will saw a longer, bigger log, a wider cant, has more std. hp, has bigger band wheels, and will be cheaper to add options to.
> 
> ...



Jeeeeeeeeeze Rob, how many thousand board feet do you have on all of those mills, including the new Norwood MX Super Pro? Stop taking other people's questioning on the value of one of the new mills so personal


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 20, 2009)

Coalsmoke said:


> Jeeeeeeeeeze Rob, how many thousand board feet do you have on all of those mills, including the new Norwood MX Super Pro? Stop taking other people's questioning on the value of one of the new mills so personal




It's not me taking something personal, but you seem to be taking my post(s) VERY personal.

I don't care what anyone buys for a mill, after all, it's THEIR money, not mine. But, when someone post something that just isn't true, or post something that i have enough experience about to answer questions concerning it, or if i can just plain set the record straight, i'm going to post those answers.

For instance, when someone post something like (the MX34) "it's not like they redesigned the entire mill". This just isn't true, it IS a totaly new mill, new track, new everything, so why should i sit back and let readers here who don't know any better think that it isn't?

Did you forget, i'm like YOU. I tell it like it is. And i did.

I'm glad everyone here isn't offended that i spend MY hard earned money, to travel around sawing on all kinds of mills and posting the info FREE, here and other places on line. At least those folks that email and PM me, thanking me for my post aren't offended.

Rob


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## TraditionalTool (Dec 20, 2009)

Rob,

Are you a Norwood dealer or something? Or are you just a cheerleader?

Not for nothing, but your the one running around with a big woody over the MX34, and as a potential buyer I just don't see so much greatness added that many of the other mills didn't have already, and not to add $1000. These are features that should have been on the mill already, at the same price, IMO. Sure, you have the LM2000 so you can see the advantage of not having those features. What you are saying is that now you realize that those features really were worth that much to you, on the LM2000.

Maybe someone will be wanting to dump their LM2000 for those great features so I can get a good deal on one, they would have the MX34 and life would be grand for all. Let me know if anyone has one out west they're looking to sell, I have cash.

In the meantime I just got this trailer full of pine and I don't need to mill any of it, it's been done on the amish built mill with a 30HP diesel. There's enough timber here to build a 28'x32' log home. Hence why I need a 32' mill, at least for this house I'm building. I have the plans which are stamped for structural engineering for building in Cali. I just need roof/porch rafters for finishing this build.












This is what the first portion I completed back in May/June looks like:


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## Ted J (Dec 21, 2009)

KeyStep said:


> I like my Norwood mill too but making improvements backward compatible is important. What I am talking about is how you can significantly improve profits & loyality to existing customers. Take for example all those LM-2000 customers over the past 10 years? How many will now buy the new model and sell their existing model? How many would buy the new enhancements if they could be made available on the LM-2000? Use whatever percentage you like but selling new product features for new and older models is a very important market for successful companies. Better guides, better locking log posts, better ways of watering, throttle control, etc.. may not by themselves seem huge but they can be bothersome on a manual mill and many will feel worth buying. My marketing background leads me to feel that if the features are real improvements many existing customers will want them and the solution will not be to buy a new mill for the majority of customers. My engineering background tells me that if Norwood has ignored this market potential then someone should do the retrofit for them.



Maybe they're thinking along the lines like the Japanese did with 8-Tracks and Cassettes.....?


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## OlyPenSawBoy (Dec 23, 2009)

I'm seriously searching to locate and purchase a used late-model LM2000 at this very moment, and I too have cash. I'm based west of Seattle on the Olympic Peninsula. Does anyone wish to sell their LM2000? If so, let me know. Thanks.


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 24, 2009)

Well, I'll probably be upgrading to a larger mill but not for another few months. In November I had a local guy offer me 8K for it (that's in Canadian funds) which is fair for a 1 year old mill, plus he'd save on not having to deal with all the setup and the mods are all done to it already. Only problem for him is I'm not ready to sell yet. At the time I was right in the middle of a timber frame job too. Anyways, just thought I'd mention this to give you an idea of their value if they are well cared for and have the large engine option. This buyer had done his research, which is what led him to the late model LM2000 with the large engine.


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 24, 2009)

Traditional Tool, you are doing some VERY nice work there! Thanks for the pictures.


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## OlyPenSawBoy (Dec 24, 2009)

Coalsmoke said:


> Well, I'll probably be upgrading to a larger mill but not for another few months. ...Anyways, just thought I'd mention this to give you an idea of their value if they are well cared for and have the large engine option. This buyer had done his research, which is what led him to the late model LM2000 with the large engine.



Thanks for your feedback Coalsmoke. 

Like in your neck of the woods, the trees here on the Olympic Peninsula are large DF, WRC, Red Alder, Maples and so on. Most of our trees are 20" to 36" DBH (some upwards of 40"), so the LM2000 with the larger engine, or possibly the MX34 would handle the majority of the logs available on our property. 

I called Norwood sales department last week and was a bit shocked to discover the price of the MX34 is a couple of thousand USD more than a new LM2000. If I could get a used LM2000 in good shape I would probably go that direction. 

There doesn't seem to be too many Norwood machines on the west coast, which is a drawback as far as onsite inspection and transport across N.America of a used machine. 

Where is the best place to look for used LM2000's? I've found the saw-mill exchange, but those machines are mostly located in the east and southeast and rarely does an LM2000 show up there. Any additional sites/resources you can direct me to? Thanks.


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## OlyPenSawBoy (Dec 24, 2009)

Coalsmoke said:


> Traditional Tool, you are doing some VERY nice work there! Thanks for the pictures.



I second that!! TraditionalTool - great stuff! Some of the things I see being done here on this website are fantastic. 

After a life of building things from houses to 55 storey buildings, I'm excited to start from the basic log/resource and produce several buildings on our property now that I'm retired and living local again.

Thanks for the photos TraditionalTool!


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 24, 2009)

Sawyer Rob, We sure haven't been seeing eye to eye on this one, but I still appreciate your regular input. Hope you and your family have a merry Christmas.


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 24, 2009)

OPSB, You will not regret going with the large engine. With our large west coast timber, it sure makes a big difference. 24" of Douglas Fir will really bring a smile to your face. One thing I think is worth mentioning. Don't get hung up on the mills that advertise any more than 36" of log capacity. Even at the 31" (or 34" with a little bit of trimming) that the LM2000 will handle, you will find that there is so much weight in that log that you will have larger issues with handling the log than actually sawing it. I find logs in the 16-24" range are my steady diet and the LM2000 is very well suited for this.

Now, for finding you a used LM2000, talk to everyone you can. There is a guy in Chilliwack with one, whether he would want to sell it I'm not sure. I could probably get his email for you if you wanted to ask and see about it. I lucked out, I found a guy that bought my mill to build his house, but he completely underestimated the amount of work involved in milling, and after 10 hours of use he sold it to me, in the middle of a recession. It doesn't get any better than that  There are probably a few on the Vancouver Island, there are lots of mills there. 

I love my mill so much that I am seriously considering reworking it to add complete hydraulics on it. 



OlyPenSawBoy said:


> Thanks for your feedback Coalsmoke.
> 
> Like in your neck of the woods, the trees here on the Olympic Peninsula are large DF, WRC, Red Alder, Maples and so on. Most of our trees are 20" to 36" DBH (some upwards of 40"), so the LM2000 with the larger engine, or possibly the MX34 would handle the majority of the logs available on our property.
> 
> ...


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## TraditionalTool (Dec 25, 2009)

Coalsmoke said:


> Traditional Tool, you are doing some VERY nice work there! Thanks for the pictures.





OlyPenSawBoy said:


> I second that!! TraditionalTool - great stuff! Some of the things I see being done here on this website are fantastic.
> 
> After a life of building things from houses to 55 storey buildings, I'm excited to start from the basic log/resource and produce several buildings on our property now that I'm retired and living local again.
> 
> Thanks for the photos TraditionalTool!



Thanks guys, the kind words are appreciated. I have waited a long time for this to come together, and originally I had been planning an entirely different home built out of round log timberframe, using Structural Insulated Panels as the skin. But the home was HUGE, and I was laid off from my job last January...so had my severance to buy logs with. I scaled it down so I could do it myself. While it is small, it will go on a full walkout basement and there is a 2nd floor, so this is a 3 bedroom 3 bath house, and will be about 2000 sq.ft. of living space.

Truth be told, I would have never attempted this without the help from good friend and master craftsman, Tim Bullock, who I consider to be one of the great log craftsman of our time. It was an honor to be able to learn from such an accomplished craftsman.

I'm hoping to re-assemble those first few rounds this week, so that I can continue working on the home. I have tried to carefully set this up at a rental yard fairly close to my house, so I can work on it after I find work. Until then I'm gonna keep working on it and get as much done as I can.

However, this is what drives me to finding a sawmill. I have a lot of timber that is needed still, I have the roof and porch rafters, and there is a bit of 2x6 t&g for the 2nd floor, as well as t&g paneling for the ceilings, and I plan to have most all wood floors, so a mill will assist nicely in that with a shaper.

I missed out on a 36" diameter black walnut trunk that was 22' long as I didn't have a way to mill it up...that got me to realize that there is a lot of timber that can be got for free, and a sawmill could turn that into real usable material in any home!

Here's what the logs look like off the truck, there's 7 32' logs and 4 28' logs. Also beam joist (12"x14"x30') and another cross beam. All the floor joists will be 6x10 cants of EWP.






Here's most of the fitted logs I crafted back in May/June.






And here's the last 2 fitted logs along with 4 more 28 foot logs:


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## OlyPenSawBoy (Dec 26, 2009)

TraditionalTool - I know the excitement and pure pleasure of building your own house. Back in the 1990's I did just that too. I hired one guy for 16 months, and during that time, he and I did "all" the work (except hang the garage doors) from start to finish on a 3,500 sq.ft. house in the San Francisco bay area. We did the planning, scheduling and all the labor ourselves. No one else came to site except for delivery peronnel (and the building inspector of course). By that time in life I had years of work experience as a civil engineer and a licensed general contractor in CA. Doing all the trades on that one home was fantastic and things went really well. You will enjoy the rewards of building your own house.

My family lived in that home for a good number of years. It was very rewarding. There is nothing like doing it yourself if you have the motivation and determination to see it to completion. It also gives you the ability to add those extras to make it special.

Since that time my wife (who is an architect) and I have built several houses (more than 10 at this stage). It is always exciting for me to develop site plans and construction drawings...and then to see my ideas built and appreciated. I'm sure you will enjoy that process!

I've never built a log home before, but I have been in them many times and really appreciate the unique atmosphere exposed structural elements can bring to "the feel" of a home. To see your finely fitted logs is exciting and gives me the urge to study up on the technique. In the very near future I anticipate building several large post-framed buildings on our 140-acre ranch. I'd like to construct them with as many materials as I possibly can produce from our own trees...since we have lots of them. A band mill is next on my equipment list. I've been working with timber, structural steel and reinforced concrete all my life, but my passion is with natural timber and I'm certain I will love milling my own very soon!

Good luck on your exciting adventure! Stay focused and determined, you'll love the feeling of having done it yourself.


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## TraditionalTool (Dec 27, 2009)

OlyPenSawBoy said:


> TraditionalTool - I know the excitement and pure pleasure of building your own house. Back in the 1990's I did just that too. I hired one guy for 16 months, and during that time, he and I did "all" the work (except hang the garage doors) from start to finish on a 3,500 sq.ft. house in the San Francisco bay area. We did the planning, scheduling and all the labor ourselves.


Wow, very similar story, although I'm not into construction by trade. I'm building with log, but the roof and porches are timber. I live in South Bay (of SF Bay), and building it in Morgan Hill at a small yard I'm renting. The home will reside up at Clear Lake, I have a piece of lakefront property for it.


OlyPenSawBoy said:


> I've never built a log home before, but I have been in them many times and really appreciate the unique atmosphere exposed structural elements can bring to "the feel" of a home. To see your finely fitted logs is exciting and gives me the urge to study up on the technique.


It's not that difficult, IMO, and if you have done any amount of woodworking or building in general, which it sounds like, it is not hard. There are people to learn from, I found a craftsman out of work and willing to help a spec like myself. lol


OlyPenSawBoy said:


> In the very near future I anticipate building several large post-framed buildings on our 140-acre ranch.


I suspect that this will be one of several structure, I might think about building a garage after I get this one done. I might think about doing another one, after, not sure...I'm enjoying learning how to do it. That in itself was a treat.

For my needs I want to have a sawmill that can handle these type of logs, and I think that many of them can, most all require multiple extensions to do so, but for most that is possible. It is not as if a Norwood would work and a WoodMizer wouldn't, or a Cooks would or yada-yada-yada...What I'm dealing with is a log that has the sides milled off of it. Ga-bing-ga-bang, done, on a bandmill. But the sawmill needs to handle a 28' - 32' log on my current home...I wouldn't want to build with smaller logs, and 40' logs would be really nice!

I have also wondered if a Lucas type mill might not be good in the sense of being able to handle a long log. The extensions are decent. Seems the Lucas would cut a cant any size as long as you only want one out of a log.

For furniture and such, even 11' material can be made into everything inside a house. 

There's a guy that has an LT30 in NorCal that has been for sale, he's been wanting $10k, and recently lowered it to $9k. Still too pricey for my blood at the moment. I need to keep it down between $3500-$5000, and would feel more comfortable with the lower figure. Still, I see worthy mills go for that, just seems more are back east.


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## Coalsmoke (Dec 27, 2009)

Tradiotional Tool, given your budget and need to handle 30' + logs, have you considered the Norwood Lumberlite?


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## TraditionalTool (Dec 27, 2009)

Coalsmoke said:


> Tradiotional Tool, given your budget and need to handle 30' + logs, have you considered the Norwood Lumberlite?


I have considered it, as I have the Cooks MP-24, and the LT10...but they are not very stout and I think for this type of work one needs a bigger engine.

A used Lumbermate 2000 would work, and I just missed one recently. More will come, no rush as most of my wall logs are milled already, as-is much of my timber cants.

Minimum I would like an LT15, Lumbermate 2000, Cooks MP-32, TimberKing 1220, etc...these are mostly in the $8k-$10k new, depending on options.

As an alternative I have looked at the Linn and the Burg. Burg has a special which could get upgraded to a 16HP vanguard, that's in my price range, but just doesn't seem as good as the Linn, but the Linn is quite a bit more for comparable. Burg has a 42" carriage that will cut 36". They offer it for $3600 with a 13HP Honda engine. I talked to him and he could do the 16HP Vanguard upgrade for $4400.

The Linn 190a or 1900 would be in the $6k-$7k.

I still think I'm better off with an LT15 or Lumbermate 2000, if I can find one used at a decent price. An LT15 would allow me to fabricate my own extensions, the Norwood would be more difficult and/or require purchasing from Norwood.

The Cooks MP-32 looks like steel tubing with an angle or bar welded to the side/top, as they sell v-rollers that could be adapted to other mills. This looks like one could fabricate their own extensions also. The Burg and Linn use similar angle iron from what I can tell, doesn't look very stout to start tossing 32' logs on...

Anyone have any opinions on the Burg or Linn mills?

Also, any of these prices I have mentioned for new could be found used as well. There is a Burg for sale in South Oregon now, but I think the seller is asking too much considering the current sale going on.


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## gemniii (Jan 9, 2010)

Since a lot of this thread seems to be either Norwood chearleading or ragging on the new mills, which only Sawyer Rob has used, what about the assembly?
Anyone know if the new mills are going to be pretty much factory assembled?
Put the rails together and put the head on?
Or lots of little pieces?

I've read so many stories about how it can take a day or more for one plus persons to assemble them.


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## OlyPenSawBoy (Jan 9, 2010)

gemniii said:


> Since a lot of this thread seems to be either Norwood chearleading or ragging on the new mills, which only Sawyer Rob has used, what about the assembly?
> Anyone know if the new mills are going to be pretty much factory assembled?
> Put the rails together and put the head on?
> Or lots of little pieces?
> ...



Yesterday during a discussion with a NW sales rep I was told the MX34 would come with assembly instructions, no assembly video would be provided because it is "much simpler" to assemble than the LM2000 has been in the past. I presume this is true or possibly NW just has not created the MX34 assembly video yet.


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## Coalsmoke (Jan 9, 2010)

gemniii said:


> Since a lot of this thread seems to be either Norwood chearleading or ragging on the new mills, which only Sawyer Rob has used, what about the assembly?
> Anyone know if the new mills are going to be pretty much factory assembled?
> Put the rails together and put the head on?
> Or lots of little pieces?
> ...



Sawyer Rob has time on one of the new mills? As far as I knew / know, he's just riding the bandwagon.


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## gemniii (Jan 9, 2010)

Coalsmoke said:


> Sawyer Rob has time on one of the new mills? As far as I knew / know, he's just riding the bandwagon.


Well he wrote:


> I on the other hand have been sawing with ceramic guides for some time, so i KNOW what they are like.


I (perhaps mistakenly) took that to mean he knew what the guides were like in the new machine.
Would the part work the same in any machine?
Like if I dropped my 7.3L diesel into my wife's Civic Hybrid? Same exact performance?
And he has pointedly ignored every time you questioned his hands on time.
He's got all those juicy close up pictures.
So I figured he was so busy using it that he couldn't figure up the hours he spent on it, and may be under a partial NDA.

I'd hate to think that all this trumpeting was based solely on marketing, pretty pictures, and specs.

That would be as bad as people posting that a mill was "cheap chinese junk" "underpowered" "flimsy" "not made in America" based on a picture on HarborFreight.com with no hands on experience. Like they have.


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## Coalsmoke (Jan 9, 2010)

gemniii said:


> Well he wrote:
> 
> I (perhaps mistakenly) took that to mean he knew what the guides were like in the new machine.
> Would the part work the same in any machine?
> ...



In those pictures what he has is some sort of ceramic guide retrofit on a standard "old style" Lumbermate 2000. That's not Norwood's new MX34 mill in the pictures.


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## Can8ianTimber (Jan 9, 2010)

Here is what I don't understand.

Some people think it "looks" great.
Some people think it doesn't or whatever.

Since as far as I can tell no one actually has hands on experience with this machine. 

THIS IS PEOPLE SHARING OPINIONS. 

I really think people are smart enough to understand that if someone else thinks a mill looks great, that they have never seen, then they are not sharing facts but only opinions. The same goes for people who think it stinks.

I don't really understand all the bashing of sawyer rob for sharing what is obviously an "OPINION". 

Just because you are pasionate about an opinion does not mean you are trying to convince people it is a fact.


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## TraditionalTool (Jan 9, 2010)

Hey, come on guys, give Rob some slack, he started this thread and looks to have done some research and it sounded as if he has talked with Norwood about it. He does use a Norwood 2000 all the time.

There is nothing wrong with being excited about the new features, IMO.

I'm not sure they are worth $1k more, but even Rob said he was told it would be a little more and didn't expect $1k more.

My $0.02, I never took it to mean he had spent too much time on one, although he did criticize me asking how much time I had spent on any of the ones I'm interested in...that's ok, the mill I used would slice up a Lumbermate in short order...that said, I keep hoping someone wants to pony up to the MX and sell their 2000 off at a good price...:help: (any takers out west?)


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## BobL (Jan 9, 2010)

gemniii said:


> Well he wrote:
> 
> I (perhaps mistakenly) took that to mean he knew what the guides were like in the new machine.
> Would the part work the same in any machine?
> Like if I dropped my 7.3L diesel into my wife's Civic Hybrid? Same exact performance?



I don't see the comparison you are making. BS Guides generally cover a wide range of blade sizes and once someone has the hang of how to set them correctly it should not be that big an issue.


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## TraditionalTool (Jan 9, 2010)

And BTW, speaking of which...I don't see very many used sawmills selling, most of the sellers seem to be asking too much money...there was an LT15G15 on ebay recently that didn't meet the reserve and was bid up to $4500. I honestly don't think they are worth that, but the seller obviously thinks it's worth more just sitting in the snow...

The new sawmills are looking more attractive all the time, given what some folks think the used mills are worth.

Of course the few I've seen that are priced right seem to sell REALLY quick...it's a buyer's market, IMO.

EDIT: I wonder if it's just coincidence that the color scheme on the new MX head reminds me of a Woodmizer LT300?


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## Coalsmoke (Jan 10, 2010)

Well, I'm not in the market of buying or selling mills, but I have had 2 good offers on my mill since the news of the new MX34 has hit the market, just I'm not interested in selling. But, we've been through this before, just like this whole opinions debacle comes up every couple of months.  People are _quick_ to forget that it is opinions of men and machine that have shaped our countries. Can we get off this damn horse now? :deadhorse:


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## TraditionalTool (Jan 10, 2010)

Coalsmoke said:


> Well, I'm not in the market of buying or selling mills, but I have had 2 good offers on my mill since the news of the new MX34 has hit the market, just I'm not interested in selling.


Well, honestly there is no reason for you to sell, I'm betting your LM 2000 is working just fine, and you have probably made some of the upgrades that were also added to the MX, possibly.

That is why I stated several times before, it's not as if one mill will work for me and all the others won't. I think any of them would work fine for my needs.

I'll just keep my eyes open and keep looking, one day something will come up used in my area that will fit my needs, or I'll end up buying a new one.


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## TraditionalTool (Jan 25, 2010)

I see the new price list for 2010 has been updated on the Norwood web site.

The price on the Lumbermate 2000 went from the following in 2009:

$4890 - 13HP engine
$5290 - 15HP electric start engine
$5890 - 23HP electric start engine

To the MX34 in 2010:

$6995 - 16HP electric start
$7595 - 23HP electric start

Not for nothing but that is about $1700-$1800 increase for the new model.


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## Coalsmoke (Jan 25, 2010)

Pretty substantial increase eh.


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## Can8ianTimber (Jan 25, 2010)

Personaly I think they should keep the LM2000 around and give sawyers the choice. You want the new model for the extra $ go for it. If you want the battle tested LM2000 then cool. 

People like choices!!!


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## TraditionalTool (Jan 25, 2010)

Coalsmoke said:


> Pretty substantial increase eh.


Coal,

A little too substantial for my blood. However, the Lumbermate 2000 I found with a 23HP V-Twin on it suites my blood level just fine. :biggrinbounce2:

See my other thread I started...


Can8ianTimber said:


> Personaly I think they should keep the LM2000 around and give sawyers the choice. You want the new model for the extra $ go for it. If you want the battle tested LM2000 then cool.
> 
> People like choices!!!


I agree Can8ian, I just don't think the improvements are worth the additional cost, but that's me...and why I'm buying a used Lumbermate 2000...


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