# Sparks flying off chain?



## hickslawns (Nov 23, 2008)

Sawing through a tree? (maybe overgrown bush?) and there were sparks coming off the chainsaw chain. I tried a bigger saw with a better chain. Dulled this chain and still had sparks. Nothing embedded in the wood. Anyone ever experience this? Seriously hard wood.


----------



## Barnie (Nov 23, 2008)

hickslawns said:


> Sawing through a tree? (maybe overgrown bush?) and there were sparks coming off the chainsaw chain. I tried a bigger saw with a better chain. Dulled this chain and still had sparks. Nothing embedded in the wood. Anyone ever experience this? Seriously hard wood.



Is it the right chain for the bar ??


----------



## KsWoodsMan (Nov 23, 2008)

What color was the wood ? Osage Orange ( Hedge) will grow in most of Ohio and has a very yellow/green/orange chips and wood when first cut. It is the hardest wood I have cut and will test your sharpening method pretty quickly.

The second growth will grow back as a bush if not trimmed. You couldnt miss the thorns though. It puts them on BAD with any second growth.


----------



## carvinmark (Nov 23, 2008)

We have iron wood here that acts like that. If you are sure the B & C combo is correct, then it is most likely real hard wood and or dirty wood.


----------



## Burvol (Nov 23, 2008)

Your about ready to loose your tip.


----------



## stdydub (Nov 23, 2008)

i cut up a 300 yr old hard maple in my yard you wouldn't believe how many sparks i threw..... didnt notice any damage to chain.. also threw sparks on hedge and hickory. i wouldnt worry about it


----------



## KsWoodsMan (Nov 23, 2008)

It could be the oil is to thick in this cold weather or both saws just are not oiling well enough.


----------



## ckr74 (Nov 23, 2008)

I cut mostly osage orange and it's not unusual to see a spark once in a while. The old dead stuff will do it for sure. Make sure you're getting plenty of oil to the chain. If you're seeing alot of sparks there may be something wrong.


----------



## Suz (Nov 23, 2008)

*Sparks*

A couple of "off wall" ideas on why you are getting sparks.
One, could there be sand embedded in the wood that has been blown into the tree as it grew? I don't know what kind of soil you have there, but it is sandy where my son lives and I'm constantly sharping chains!  
Another thought, could your chain be a little loose and you are rocking your bar as you cut, thus causing the chain to rub on one side of the bar and not getting enough oil? (Feel the edges of your bar and if they feel like there is a "hook" on the edge.) 
How many of you have been cutting late in the day where it was almost dark and noticed all the sparks coming off the bar?


----------



## jonny2bad (Nov 23, 2008)

Have ever seen sparks from an odd red elm but mainly is due dirt in/under bark.


----------



## dnf0929 (Nov 23, 2008)

I just cut some shagbark hickory for the first time and that stuff is in a league of it's own. Chain sounds totally different when it hits it and a brand new one was pretty dull after one good size log length.


----------



## bore_pig (Nov 23, 2008)

Suz said:


> A couple of "off wall" ideas on why you are getting sparks.
> One, could there be sand embedded in the wood that has been blown into the tree as it grew? I don't know what kind of soil you have there, but it is sandy where my son lives and I'm constantly sharping chains!



:agree2: 

I have the same problem. And when cutting down by the stump, there is a lot of embedded sand. Throws sparks a lot.


----------



## hickslawns (Nov 24, 2008)

Suz-Not very sandy, mostly clay around here. 

Barnie-I know it is the right bar and chain, and the saw is nearly new. In fact, after this incident was the first time the chain was sharpened. I tried my 029 Farmboss with the same results, also went at it with my Husky 55 with same results.

KsWoodsman-All three saws have been using oil fine, so I think this rules that out. I am not familiar with the orange, but there are no thorns.

Burvol- ??? Lose my tip? Not sure what you mean. 

I believe this is a type of wild fruit tree which may even be an overgrown bush. These are along a wood line between farm fields. There are several of them, I just had to cut this one up to gain better access to the oak which fell. By the way, this tree/bush/whatever seems it is partially alive, although the branches under the tree which broke are certainly dead.


----------



## jburlingham (Nov 24, 2008)

I have had some sparks in the past, mostly when cutting dead trees. I believe it is most likely embedded dirt and sand. Here in My area it also important to check for old barb wire that grew into trees before the exposed part of the wire rotted away.


----------



## hickslawns (Nov 24, 2008)

Yes, there are sections of this I had to be careful as there was some barbed wire going thru it. However, this thing throws sparks everywhere. You can see after it has been cut there was no wire in the section, just some dang hard wood.


----------



## day52 (Nov 24, 2008)

Almost any bush, shrub, tree in a fence row will collect some dirt in the bark. Obviously loose bark trees such as a shagbark hickory will collect more. If it is Osage Orange, you already have a very tough wood. With just a bit of grit on the outside, it will dull a chain quickly. Sparks will fly for sure. I don't usually mind cutting hickory in the woods, but on the outside, in a fence row, or isolated in a field, it can put your chains to a test. The heck of it is hickory, Osage Orange, and Hophornbeam (some call it ironwood in some locales) are awfully good burning. I guess it is always a tradeoff.


----------



## Zodiac45 (Nov 24, 2008)

I've had it happen usually due too dirt on the tree being pulled into the cut. Also what Burvol mentioned could cause the sparks. Your bar tip being pootched. Take a good look at it. It the teeth are looking like sharp little points or it's "loose" within the housing, that's you problem.


----------



## KsWoodsMan (Nov 24, 2008)

hickslawns said:


> I believe this is a type of wild fruit tree which may even be an overgrown bush. These are along a wood line between farm fields. There are several of them, I just had to cut this one up to gain better access to the oak which fell. By the way, this tree/bush/whatever seems it is partially alive, although the branches under the tree which broke are certainly dead.



Oh, maybe you are in Persimmon, a relative to Ebony.

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=29

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/LandownerFactsheets/detail.cfm?Genus=Diospyros&Species=virginiana


----------



## cityevader (Nov 24, 2008)

The only time I get sparks are when I'm de-limbing on the ground. Rather, cutting them into firewood lengths from the tip towards the trunk. The flexy branches move a lot, side-loading the chain in the bar...sparks every time.


----------



## coppermouse (Nov 24, 2008)

Could be barbed wire in the tree, I have had that happen.


----------



## TreePointer (Nov 24, 2008)

cityevader said:


> The only time I get sparks are when I'm de-limbing on the ground. Rather, cutting them into firewood lengths from the tip towards the trunk. The flexy branches move a lot, side-loading the chain in the bar...sparks every time.



:agree2: Same here.


----------



## bigjake (Nov 24, 2008)

Was it dark inside i have seen this were the metal has rusted were you cant 
see anything but dark spots.


----------



## Mike PA (Nov 24, 2008)

If there isn't anything in the wood and you aren't hitting rocks, it's your cutting technique or the chain tension. Cutting technique in that you are twisting the saw and piching the chain. chain tension in that it is too lose and is twisting in the bar rail.

Whatever the cause, no matter what wood you are cutting, this is not normal.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 24, 2008)

Sparks are normal, there's nothing wrong with your chain or bar. Think about it. A metal chain is spinning around a metal bar at an extremely high rate of speed, it's going to produce sparks. In low lighting you would be amazed at the amount of sparks flying off the bar and chain.


----------



## cityevader (Nov 24, 2008)

every night last week I was cutting into darkness, not a spark was seen


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 24, 2008)

cityevader said:


> every night last week I was cutting into darkness, not a spark was seen



Good.


----------



## Schultzz (Nov 24, 2008)

"Sparks are normal, there's nothing wrong with your chain or bar. Think about it. A metal chain is spinning around a metal bar at an extremely high rate of speed, it's going to produce sparks. In low lighting you would be amazed at the amount of sparks flying off the bar and chain."

I don't think so.


"If there isn't anything in the wood and you aren't hitting rocks, it's your cutting technique or the chain tension. Cutting technique in that you are twisting the saw and piching the chain. chain tension in that it is too lose and is twisting in the bar rail.

Whatever the cause, no matter what wood you are cutting, this is not normal."

This is most likely the reason.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 24, 2008)

Schultzz said:


> "Sparks are normal, there's nothing wrong with your chain or bar. Think about it. A metal chain is spinning around a metal bar at an extremely high rate of speed, it's going to produce sparks. In low lighting you would be amazed at the amount of sparks flying off the bar and chain."
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> ...



Sorry but you're wrong. You have a lack of understanding of how a chain works when it goes around the bar.


----------



## cityevader (Nov 24, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> Good.



Yup.
No sparks=good.
Lots of sparks=bad.
Very occassion spark=no biggie.


----------



## savageactor7 (Nov 24, 2008)

hickslawns if you're cutting brush close to the ground you'd be better off with a hard nosed bar.

As to the sparks I'm speculating that the chain came off and one of more of the drive teeth are crooked....they can be filed down. 

In the future save you oldest chains for brush work/stumps and don't be surprised if you have to tighten 'em every 10 minutes of use or so. 

When you're constantly using the saw tip in a horizontal application, like in cutting brush close to the ground ...it's a high maintenance situation for the chain. Nothing wrong with doing it that way as long as you know what to expect.


----------



## Schultzz (Nov 24, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> Sorry but you're wrong. You have a lack of understanding of how a chain works when it goes around the bar.



Does it spark at night without cutting anything? NO

Does it spark at night when an experienced cutter cuts wood? NOT USUALLY

Many people have been cutting incorrectly all of their lives. Per haps you are one of them. If you put pressure side torque on the bar because you can't cut straight then the chain will grind down the bar and make it rough... and make sparks. Apparently you have a lack of skill when it comes to cutting correctly.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 24, 2008)

Schultzz said:


> Does it spark at night without cutting anything? NO
> 
> Does it spark at night when an experienced cutter cuts wood? NOT USUALLY
> 
> Many people have been cutting incorrectly all of their lives. Per haps you are one of them. If you put pressure side torque on the bar because you can't cut straight then the chain will grind down the bar and make it rough... and make sparks. Apparently you have a lack of skill when it comes to cutting correctly.



As the chain travels around the axis points the bar the chain's centrifugal force causes the chain ark and come off the bar. When the chain comes back into contact with the bar, it does so very violently, this can and almost always creates a spark. And yes if the chain is too loose, this effect is intensified, but you cannot stop this from occurring.

Now did you come to this form to learn something or argue?lol


----------



## Schultzz (Nov 24, 2008)

"ark" ?

Is that anything like Noah's Ark?

Take your saw out at night with the chain properly tightened to the bar and run it. If the bar and the chain are in good shape you might see a spark or two. But I am not talking about that. I am speaking of people who do not cut right. I do not know if you are one of these, but you wil be able to tell if you cut in the dark (just be careful) as improper alignment of the bar to the log (your part) will produce lots of sparks. I am familiar with how a chain behaves when cutting or running. I also know that most people shorten the life of a bar and chain because they started cutting a certain way (which may be crooked) and they continue to cut this way. 

I cam here to learn and teach.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 24, 2008)

Ark, arch, ok I'll give you that one.

I'm not saying a shower of sparks is coming off the end of the bar, just a few here and there, but definitely enough to notice.


----------



## Labman (Nov 24, 2008)

I frequently see sparks cutting osage orange, but they go away with most other woods without any improvement in my technique, adjusting the chain, adding oil, replacing the bar tip, etc. I say it was osage orange or a similar wood. Did it stop when you got to the nice, soft oak?


----------



## chowdozer (Nov 24, 2008)

I see sparks all the time cutting cherry at night. Blue sparks and enough of them I thought I had a problem. So I sank the bar in a chunk of fir. No sparks. No sparks when cutting hemlock, maple or alder either.


----------



## Schultzz (Nov 24, 2008)

"Ark, arch, ok I'll give you that one."

Thanks for the reply. Maybe others can offer some comments about the sparking chain.


----------



## hickslawns (Nov 26, 2008)

No problems with other woods. Just this one type of wood. I don't think it is technique, but I am not claiming to be an expert. I have gone thru a dozen chains in the last 11 years, but still have the original bar on my 029. I would think if I was cutting without the chain properly tensioned, or not oiling properly, or repeatedly hitting the dirt, I would have had more problems over the years. I probably would not be on the same bar either. I was using my little Stihl which is fairly new when this occurred. I then tried with 2 other saws which I have had for awhile with the same results. I suppose I could just be crazy or ignorant, but I don't think so. I will admit I am plenty goofy though.


----------



## mantis (Nov 26, 2008)

It really could be anything,but it is not really abnormal. I have cut some that sparked only to find out that the tree was used as a fence post many many years ago. Would never know it without any barbed wire around.sometimes you can hit a crotch or knot that is rock hard. Does it spark when you block the tree of just cut it down?It could be the way you are holding the saw too


----------



## KsWoodsMan (Nov 26, 2008)

hickslawns said:


> No problems with other woods. Just this one type of wood. I don't think it is technique, but I am not claiming to be an expert. I have gone thru a dozen chains in the last 11 years, but still have the original bar on my 029. I would think if I was cutting without the chain properly tensioned, or not oiling properly, or repeatedly hitting the dirt, I would have had more problems over the years. I probably would not be on the same bar either. I was using my little Stihl which is fairly new when this occurred. I then tried with 2 other saws which I have had for awhile with the same results. I suppose I could just be crazy or ignorant, but I don't think so. I will admit I am plenty goofy though.



I've been waiting to say this ... I wouldn't mind seeing some pics of the wood causing the chain to throw spaks.


----------



## stihl sawing (Nov 26, 2008)

Hickory and blackjack oak will throw sparks too. And usually you can't see it well untill about sundown. Probably just a hard wood your cutting. Now if it is excessive you may have other things going on.


----------



## milkie62 (Nov 26, 2008)

Bone dry apple wood will throw sparks.......


----------



## J.W Younger (Nov 27, 2008)

stihl sawing said:


> Hickory and blackjack oak will throw sparks too. And usually you can't see it well untill about sundown. Probably just a hard wood your cutting. Now if it is excessive you may have other things going on.


+1 on the black jack. that bark sure is nasty for the 1st 2 ft. whats that guy doing there to make so much smoke? I thought my ole mac smoked bad but damn!


----------



## Kansas (Nov 28, 2008)

hickslawns said:


> Sawing through a tree? (maybe overgrown bush?) and there were sparks coming off the chainsaw chain. I tried a bigger saw with a better chain. Dulled this chain and still had sparks. Nothing embedded in the wood. Anyone ever experience this? Seriously hard wood.



That is my world here in central Kansas SAND its embedded in the trees its in the bark its the ground its everywhere! 

Sucks something terrible to operate a chainsaw in it but there isnt a better way I have found? My bars and chains dont last very long sad to say.

Oh yeah I forgot about black walnut and hedge they are so hard they throw sparks anyway besides the sand.

Kansas


----------



## Orange Hill (Dec 13, 2008)

First post after lurking for a while. :newbie: 

I am glad to hear I am not the only person seeing sparks. I am cutting a 18" eucalyptus that split in a wind storm a few years back and fell and suspended on another tree so it has never touched the ground and the bark is gone from age. This tree is in a grove of large trees in a draw so it never sees anything but shade so it makes the sparks more visible. My saw is lubing (Stihl bar oil) well as it is spraying a nice spray off of the tip and the chain is not turning a light color so I think it is sufficiently lubed. I also religiously use my greaser on the tip and the chain is sharp and throwing chips not dust. This wood is really hard to the point of the cuts being a bit shinny. Yes I know my current saw is cutting too slow and building heat so I let it cool after a few cuts. The old bar (Husqvarna) was worn at the tip so I replaced it with a new Oregon bar and a new Oregon chain and same thing; sparks, even with a cold bar. The chain is properly tensioned. This tree is much harder then the dried live oak (no sparks) I have recently cut. I am wondering if some trees draw minerals into their wood and this is what is causing the sparks. The soil is decomposed granite and it is growing in a dry creek bed. Also I cut down another eucalyptus by it, (green wood) and I saw no sparks. 

I am leaving the dry tree until I get a better saw and on Monday. I won't break it in on this tree. I might get a MS-361, but I really like the weight of the 346XP/MS-260 PRO. The 346XP is a non-cat saw and is my first choice. My dealer carries both Stihl and Husqvarna so the dealer support is equally good. I am just a weekend warrior so I don't usually need a huge saw and if I do I will use my friend's or one my uncle's larger saws. I do see a larger saw in my future though.  I am taking vacation time next week to get to know my new saw better, no joke.


----------

