# How do you "Storm Chase" properly??



## NebClimber (May 23, 2004)

Tornadoes have hit a few towns w/in a few hours driving distance from me.

This sounds like good opportunity for tree work, but how does one go about chasing a storm?

For example, should I be there the morning after? Or should I wait a few days for friends/neighbors/emgergency-responders to move thru?

What about getting insurance co's to pay the claims for tree doing damage to property? Does the homeowner have to wait for an adjuster to OK the work? Or should I just have the homeowner take some pictures and then have me start work immediately?

Should I just show up on the scene with my equipment, or should I go in my car, bid jobs, and come back in a few days?

I know some of you have chased storms . . . please advise!

Steven


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## NeTree (May 23, 2004)

Generally-

The homeowner should take pics and document the damage.

Let the homeowner deal with the insurance company, and get reimbursed from them. 

Get paid when the work is done. People will quickly forget how much you saved their arse... and maybe decide you aren't worth quite as much.

If you're going to show up, show up with your equipment, prepared.

Be respectful... these people have lost property likely, and are now having to spend money they hadn't planned on. Don't look like a leach taking advantage of a bad situation. Don't price things higher just because you CAN.

I'd be there the morning after. Some things like trees down on a lawn may not be an immediate hazard, but trees across driveways & roads (blocking access to emergency vehicles), on occupied houses, and hung up in other trees should definitely be taken care of ASAP.

With the above, priority work should come first; even if it's just to "make safe" and come back to it later.

Don't get in the way of more important things, like fire/ambulance operations.

If there's other tree companies in the area, don't be shy on asking/offering help. Cooperation is good PR for the industry, and can net you many friends that may come in handy another time.


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## OutOnaLimb (May 23, 2004)

I guess It really kinda depends on the storm and damage. There was a good article in last months TCI magazine about storm work.
I took a crew to Lousiana two years ago after hurricane Lili, and didnt do to bad. Looking back now, I would have just taken my crew and gotten there as soon as possible. We arrived the day after the storm and there were tree companies from all over the country working already. My advice would to get there as soon as possible bid the jobs, line up the work and then have your crews and equipment follow you up as soon as they can get prepared and deploy. Hind sight being what it is I would not have taken my truck and chipper due to the fact that most of the trees and brush were just piled up on the street and BFI was contracted to clean up a few weeks later. However, I did get quite a few jobs later on (about 2) weeks from people who wanted trees removed because they were afraid they would loose the trees in the next storm anyway. I also got lucky and did some work for a local country club because there regular tree guy was busy taking care of other clients.

I dont know how much damage those twisters did, but if you are slow in your neck of the wood it may be a good idea to take time and go check it out. 

Kenn:Monkey:


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## Ax-man (May 23, 2004)

*storms*

I was thinking about you today, I seen some of the damage on the weather channel, said it was near Lincoln, Neb.

As far as storm work goes it has never been a good experience for me personally, brings out the worst for all parties involved when a heavy winds hits. Storm mangled trees are the worst to work on and it usually takes it's heaviest toll on neglected trees that have recieved no care what so ever, the owners of these trees wouldn't normally hire arborists any way.

Every body and his brother that owns a chain saw and a pick-up truck comes out of the wood work after a storm. They get all the easy stuff on ground, they can have that work for all I care, the ones we get are the high liability jobs that no one else wants.

Personally I would not move to a storm area, there are probaly enough fly by nights there already. You would probaly be viewed as some kind of low life tree cutter taking advantage of some peoples misfortune, no matter how professional you look, some people are just leery of strangers.

Our storm policy is this 

We work 2 to 5 days on storm work, my regular customers or people we have done business with in the past come first, the one timers come second, odds are they won't repeat in the future.

I make it clear that we are not working for their insurance companies, they have to settle with the ins. co. not us. The only way we work for ins. co. is if the agent calls us direct to confirm they will cover the bill.

Get paid promptly, the value of your service quickly diminishes after a storm.

I try to get back to my regular work as quickly as possible after a storm, Storm work is a hit and miss thing, you can make a little money, but you can also lose. I can do with out it myself, easier and more profitable ways to make a buck, than storm work.

The guys on the right and left coast might have a different take on this as they have had some hard hits from storms this year and last year.

Just my two cents on the subject

Larry


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## Lumberjack (May 23, 2004)

As soon as the storm clears start drivin.

Buy you a dig camera and take your own pics to CYA.

Have all your stuff together, dont look like this is your first time.

Act like a pro, and be treated like one, you can build good relationships and clients based on how you work.

If you mess up, dont let the customer know it unless you have to, try to fix it promply and NEVER be supprised. They need stability in there messed up world from the storm.

Never work when they say, "Just give me a bill." Always bid everything, never leave them open to guess an amount.

If you can get a crane, dependin on the size of the storms and all, rent it out for a week. Exspensive, but you can make a killin with it.


Try not to be short handed. Have plenty of smart hard workes, but they gotta be smart and hard workin or else they get in the way.

Charge slightly higher, and book all the jobs you can.

Be professional and curteous. If you are biddin and they need some quick help, then help them, it will go a long way towards gettin the job.

Deal with them, not the insurance. That never works.


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## Stumper (May 23, 2004)

Carl , Are you sure that you only just finished high scrhool? Very mature advice my young friend!


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## Lumberjack (May 23, 2004)

Some other things:

When you roll into town, be respectful. They have lost alot, be there to help them first, make money second. In doing that you will make more money.

The more friendly and helpful you are, the more people will notice you, instead of the others.

If you have a tricky removal off a house, make a plan and work it. If something goes wrong, stay calm. Dont have the groundies jumpin around letting EVERYONE know that something went wrong. If something shifts or whatever, stay safe but dont get all excited, people will loose confidence in a stranger fast.

Dont be afraid to spend money to make it, if you need something, buy it BEFORE you get there.


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## Guy Meilleur (May 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OutOnaLimb _
> * people who wanted trees removed because they were afraid they would loose the trees in the next storm anyway. *


These same people need risk assessment, not removal. If you enter a property it's on you to assess risk and propose mitigation, not to just cut down everything the owner is paranoid about. That would be stupid.

After the storm damage is taken care of you can contract to come back and make their other trees safer and healthier. Storms are very teachable moments, and if you have the lessons ready you can get good long-term work out of them instead just cut-and-run work.

I agree with the others on the rest.


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## murphy4trees (May 23, 2004)

I met a storm chaser from Oklahoma in Va... He left ? days before the storm... I think 2 days... That first week or two after a big storm is where most of the guys make the most money.. Really big ones pay a little longer.. Pump things up with somw local ads and charge plenty to cover your extra expenses and lost profit from lost work at home...
My thinking is that tornados are pretty localized and don't do enough tree damage to warrent much storm chasing like a big hurricane...


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## TreeJunkie (May 23, 2004)

Carl, You give some pretty good advice for a guy who has probobally never spent a week on the road chasing storms. Where is your experience I wonder? Are these suggestions you've accumulated from AS.. I've been around this business a while and i remember when i was 18, i had no knowledge of dealing w/ insurance co. or the like. Not trying to pick at you, just seems like the advice doesn't rack up to the amount of experience. 

My personal advice on storm, other than those which have been mentioned. It's always a gamble, make sure you can afford to move equipment in and possibly come home empty handed...It's happened. Secondly, make contacts w/ well respected companies in the town you'll be working. They can help and possibly sub you some work. Bring proof of insurance certificates, you'll need them. And, oh yeah, Beware of scum bags; they're all over after a big storm. So get everything in writing.


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## Lumberjack (May 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TreeJunkie _
> *Carl, You give some pretty good advice for a guy who has probobally never spent a week on the road chasing storms. Where is your experience I wonder? Are these suggestions you've accumulated from AS.. I've been around this business a while and i remember when i was 18, i had no knowledge of dealing w/ insurance co. or the like. Not trying to pick at you, just seems like the advice doesn't rack up to the amount of experience. *



Its from experience.


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## OutOnaLimb (May 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Guy Meilleur _
> *These same people need risk assessment, not removal. If you enter a property it's on you to assess risk and propose mitigation, not to just cut down everything the owner is paranoid about. That would be stupid.
> 
> After the storm damage is taken care of you can contract to come back and make their other trees safer and healthier. Storms are very teachable moments, and if you have the lessons ready you can get good long-term work out of them instead just cut-and-run work.
> ...



Hey I wasnt complaining, I was 1,500 miles from home and was wondering how I was gonna pay my crew and pay for gas to get back to Colorado. So a property owner who had 7 rental houses wanted two or three trees in each property removed. What was I gonna say? "No I think I will go home to Colorado, and then come back in a few months and cable your trees for you"
Yeah right get real. If I didnt do it some one else would and I would be left hitch hiking home.

Kenn


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## OutOnaLimb (May 23, 2004)

On a realistic note though, If your gonna go chasing storms at least have your ducks in a row. If you heading into an area that was just hit by a hurricane, think about other logistal problems other than trees. Number one. Where are you gonna get fuel? If there is no electricity its kinda hard for gas pumps to work. Number two and I had to deal with this one for 10 days. Where are you and your crew gonna sleep????? We slept in a public park in Lafayette La. My self and a 3 man crew Me in the cab, one in the man cab and two in the box. After about a week the local authorities were ready to kick us out. It would have been nice if the local motels werent full with red cross and FEMA workers. Keep that in mind. 
Another thing you have to keep in mind is saw maintence. Make sure all you saws are running primo. Try buying a new saw in an area that has just gotten hit buy a hurricane. I think the people that made the most money in Lili were the saw dealers. Not only finding saws or parts it a ?????, but try finding a single loop of chain. It is best to bring a reel and spin your own. 

Just a few more tips from the peanut gallery. Oh and will I ever chase another hurricane again? Highly douptful. I had my fair share of adventure. But if I had it to do all over again, I would have done a lot of things differently.

Kenn

:Monkey:


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## TreeJunkie (May 24, 2004)

Carl, you storm chaser you, I'm just wondering how far you've traveled to chase a storm, and how long were you gone from home? Who were you working for? Trailer? Did this occur over spring break or the christmas holiday? Just wondering...


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## a_lopa (May 24, 2004)

no storms to chase here but if i was id be going for the smaller easier stuff if your after money, you can do more $500 jobs than $800 in a day.but thats looking from money perspective


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## Lumberjack (May 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TreeJunkie _
> *Carl, you storm chaser you, I'm just wondering how far you've traveled to chase a storm, and how long were you gone from home? Who were you working for? Trailer? Did this occur over spring break or the christmas holiday? Just wondering... *




Who said you had to travel?


We have had 2 federal diasater storms in my city in the last 6 years, and several smaller ones in between.


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## SilverBlue (May 24, 2004)

I remember Carl posting some pics of his property and mentioning the storm damage, so yes he would have experience.

Say where's TreeSlayer? He's the guy to add much from his experience.


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## TreeJunkie (May 24, 2004)

LJ, Would you mind telling what sort of experience/ training you have? How many years have you been at this? How did you get into it? Where did you get your training? Who have you worked for? You seem to be a fairly knowledgeable guy, i just wonder what kind of experience you have.


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## TreeJunkie (May 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lumberjack _
> *Who said you had to travel?
> 
> 
> We have had 2 federal diasater storms in my city in the last 6 years, and several smaller ones in between. *



So you were climbing trees at 12 yrs old? HMMM????


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## TreeJunkie (May 24, 2004)

My qualifications: 3rd generation tree business. Grew up in fathers' business. Grandfather owned the first large lawn and tree care in Kansas City. Two uncles each also own companies here in town, as well as my brother. Father has a company in Florida which i grew up working w/, as well as spending a year climbing there two years ago. Chased storms through Georgia, N. Carolina, Kentucky, and Arkansas. Have lived in hotel rooms for 4 months at a time, working on storm work. So i have a little experience.


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## MasterBlaster (May 24, 2004)

Carl sounds like a good candidate for your Gen Foreman then, eh?


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## TreeJunkie (May 25, 2004)

I'm not declaring disagreement w/ anything Carl has said. I just wonder as he talks as he has experience on the subject. I was just wundering what type of experience he actually has.


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## Lumberjack (May 25, 2004)

I have helped my father cut trees at my house since I was 5. I cut my first tree (12" DBH or so Hickory) with an axe at age 6. 

In 1998, a the first huge storm rolled through our area, and we lost over 1000 trees. We had it cleaned up in a year, and in that we bought a stump grinder (RG 50) to grind our stumps and to grind on the side to make our money back. I spent my 12th summer (I was 12) grinding stumps for a good little while at our house.

In 2001 the second big storm came through. That year we bought a new RG 85 in Jan, and the storm came through in Feb. That year we grossed over 80k in stumps alone.

In 2002 another huge storm came through the city (we live in the county). We didnt lose anytrees this storm, but the tornado missed our property by 200-300 yards.

In this storm I went out and helped people with various things. I used our multi mount winch to pull a 75' 3' DBH oak off a house. I pulled some trunks out of an old lady's driveway, and pulled a camper off the side of the house and then put it back on its tires. I did all of this by myself, at age 15. I also went around helping various tree companies with whatever they needed in the way of some heavy pulling. I did this all without exspecting money, but, like they should, they all paid me something. I also helped FEMA remove trees off of houses and the like.

The main thing that helped me then was that I looked 18-19, so they werent afraid of a kid getting hurt. 

I didnt climb any that I remember, maybe a bucket truck for a second, but nothing too major.

I started my tree buisness in August 2003. 

Now I am cutting trees full time, and have 2 full time ground men, and 1 part time groundman, but I am looking for a second part timer. I have done a huge amount of work for my time in the field, IMO. I have delt with many different people, and learned alot. 

I figure that by this august I will have grossed over 50k in trees. That is with August through May being in school, and now I am going full time till august 18, when I go to college. I am unsure about the stump company, but it gets calls everyday, and has averaged 40ish thousand a year, doing it part time.

Another thing that has helped me is I was in COPE with the boy scouts and became an instructor (unofficially) at age 14. I took the course 2 summers in a row, then started being an instructor, normally running the reppeling tower or the rock wall.

(Not trying to sound like TC/GM/PP)

One thing my father has always told me is that I am an only child, and that I am givin alot, but that alot is exspected outta me. My father has shown me many things, and has helped me enormously. I have takin that, and ran with it. I am not afraid to tackle any obstical, and have enough common sense to figure things out. You can ask anyone who knows me, and they will tell you I am very analitical, I figure out the problem, and get to fixing it.

I too have spent alot of time with automotives and working on equipment. We do almost all of our own manteince, and by 8 years old I was changing the oil by myself, and other routine things like brake work and general manteince.

Hope this has offered some insight. I am fully planning to be at this years TCI show, I hope to meet alot of yall there. Who knows, maybe a road trip? Na, too much time away from work as it is. I leave next Wed on senior trip.


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## MasterBlaster (May 25, 2004)

Bravo there, Carl!


And TJ, did you want those lanyards, or what? Your mailbox is always full.


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## okietreedude1 (May 25, 2004)

As for chasing storms, we had a massive ice storm here in 2002 and it brought people from all over. It really sucked for us, the locals. Think about that when you chase.

We had 1000 calls in 7 days, thats when we stoped counting. Of those, we probably lost 50% to out of state a-holes beating on doors. Those guys came in and jacked prices as high as $75/man hour and they knew they could get it cause in 3 wks, theyd be at home countin their green and only then would the homeowners realize they got SCREWED!

I agree w/ the tom/****/harry w/a chainsaw comment. Its nothing but the truth. I hated every minute of that storm work. 

Another thing thats a real pisser for us local guys, now 2 yrs later those same 'former customers' that abandoned us durring the storm for the 'fly by's' are calling us to fix problems (ie: crown restoration, cleaning, shaping, etc.). Its hard not to say "Why dont you call that guy that trimmed it like this to start with?"

In a nutshell: THINK ABOUT THE LOCAL COMPANIES AND ASK YOURSELF 'WHAT WOULD I THINK ABOUT THEM COMING TO MY TOWN AND TAKING MY CUSTOMERS?' Be courteous.


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## TreeJunkie (May 25, 2004)

David, 
I completely agree w/ your view of door knockers. I felt the same way here in Kc a couple of years back. I would show up to a customers house to perform a scheduled cleanup and find the work had been done. Sure enough, by some out of towner. Really pissed me off.
My personal experience w/ "chasing storms" however is not the door knocker type of chasing. I've alway worked for the municipalities, cleaning up street trees, parks and public buildings. Other than that, maybe a few cemetaries, but no door to door customer robbing.. only the work which has to be done, that no local company has time or desire to do.


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## okietreedude1 (May 25, 2004)

Rocky,

as for 75/hr not out of line, living n orlando that may be cheap. but here in little ole Enid ok, pop 50,000, we charge 75/hr for 2 guys (37.5/man). Some here think THAT'S too high. I realize theres living expenses, but a hotel only goes to 55/nite and mcd's is cheap too.


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## Nickrosis (May 26, 2004)

Not to denigrate your position, but it is perfectly reasonable to factor in their drive time to and from the storm and a legitimate risk factor because storm work is unlike other kinds. The forces and reactions can be entirely different when something is loaded by other trees or houses, etc.

TJ, you sparked a question....here comes a thread.


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## Guy Meilleur (May 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel _
> * When I went to NC in 2002 I had to do a lot of reduction cuts that I normally would not do. This was necessated by the storm damage and I was fully aware that the trees would need more attention in a couple years.
> 
> * O yes they will. doing some this winter.
> *IMO the working conditions and volume of work justified much more than the $65 per man hour Guy was charging. *


Rocky you are right and I was wrong. I was stuck in a $1/minute rut and that made it harder than it needed to be. 

It's hard to jack up rates on good customers when insurance is not involved. but necessary to run a business first and be a nice guy second.

okie I can't believe rates have to be that low out there.


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## rahtreelimbs (May 26, 2004)

My experience with storm damage is only 2 jobs that I did. So figure me in with the ones that have no experience. My insurance agent gives my name to anyone that calls. Unfortunately since I do this tree gig part time the turnaround is not in their favor. 

I state this upfront and advise callers that they may be better off calling someone else if time is important. They appreciate the honesty. 

A climber that I know told me once to double the normal price when it comes to storm damage. This may be fine for him, but I can't bring myself to do that.


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## Ax-man (May 30, 2004)

Hey Neb,

Did you ever go storm chasing??? Just curious is all.


Larry


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## arboromega (May 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *Generally-
> 
> Be respectful... these people have lost property likely, and are now having to spend money they hadn't planned on. Don't look like a leach taking advantage of a bad situation. Don't price things higher just because you CAN.
> ...


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## kowens (May 31, 2004)

*storm work$$$$$$$*

i have been to every major storm in the last 25 yrs
we hire a crane here in tampa and take it with us we try to hookup with more then one local tree service 
hurricane isabel 4 months 500.000


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## MasterBlaster (May 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Ax-man _
> *Hey Neb,
> 
> Did you ever go storm chasing??? Just curious is all.
> ...




I imagine he hasn't, thats why he started this thread.


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## NebClimber (Jun 1, 2004)

I did follow the tornadoes south of Lincoln, NE, last week. Bunch of small towns were hit. Worked on storm damage for 4 days. Took a large Sycamore off of a dental office and a few trees off of houses. Then, just like that, it was over. For me the drive was only about 100 miles. I took my bucket truck, my chipper, and my 16 year old brother. I'm just starting the company, and the trip was well worth it. But I don't think it was a big deal to any of the bigger, established companies. Really wasn't that much work to be had by day 4 or 5. But for me, it worked out well. The key was that I got right on top of the biggest jobs, and generally we could just let the material on site. And nobody cared about their lawns, fences, mailboxes, whatever, since most were already damaged. 

Steven


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