# Power Products Thread....any and all info welcome.



## wigglesworth (Sep 9, 2010)

I have recently acquired a few Power Products powered saws. For some reason there is little to no info on the web about them, other than they were used in saws, karts, mowers and such. They are dead nuts simple engines, that make good power, but there seems to be a lack of interest in the general population of chainsaw idiots such as myself. Not real sure why though??

So, what models you got, and what info do you have on them? 

So far I have acquired a Wards with an AH81 (131cc), a Mono with the AH58 (95cc) and a couple David Bradleys with the AH47 (77cc).


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## eyolf (Sep 9, 2010)

Personally, I tend to view them as a slice of history, interesting and fun, but I disagree with your assessment of them as "having good power"

My first encounter with them was with one of those old power products lawn mowers; that was one of the models with the pressed steel flywheel and the round cylinders. AS time went on and techumseh aquired them, design changes occurred, but I really don't think they were ever really "improved". I think the worst ones were the early uniblock engines in little snowthrowers like the Toro sno-pups...there were a lot of them that had touble holding together for an entire winter in heavy snow areas!

The reed set-up wouldnt pass enough fuel and air to feed the engines past maybe 6000 rpm in the smaller sizes, and the bigger ones probably had trouble exceeding 5000 rpm. But that was OK, because the rod big ends wouldn't hold together long at high RPM anyway...first the rod big end stretches a little, then the needles start brinnelling the journal, and soon everything goes its own way.

But they were loud and put on a good show!


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## chainsawwhisperer (Sep 9, 2010)

Hey Wiggs! 
I don't see this ever becoming a 'sticky'. lol


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## heimannm (Sep 9, 2010)

I had the little Mono with the AH47 but sold it to my brother...I still have my Strunk Shur Kut with the AH47, and the Wards/Mono 90 with the AH81. The big one is pretty well worn and doesn't make a lot of HP but is still capable of producing some ear splitting noise.

Little AH47 Mono - gone now







Strunk Shur Kut AH47






Ward/Mono 90 AH81






Mark


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## Jacob J. (Sep 9, 2010)

There's a number of karters running the AH-58s, AH-81s, and AH-82s these days. A number of changes have to be made in order to get these engines to turn serious RPM reliably, as mentioned above and make good power. 

The port timing in the 58s and 81s has to be changed quite a bit and the reciprocating assembly lightened. Different needle rollers for the big end of the rod and in some cases, a different rod altogether is used. A different reed block (also mentioned above) is also needed. The stock reed blocks on the 58s and 81s are very poor and have marginal flow characteristics. GEM and Palmini both made aftermarket intakes for all of the Power Products engines. The GEM reed blocks used the Go-Power pyramid reed cage and the Palmini intake used the reed cage from the older, large Homelite saws. 

I have one of the GEM and one of the Palmini intakes for the 58 block. 

The stock reed blocks on the 58 can be modified from the four narrow stainless steel reeds to two large Nytel reeds, such as those used on the Mac CP-125 stock intake.

Moss, Wiseco, and Fuller all made high-performance scalloped thin-ring pistons for the 58s, 61s, and 81s. I have a NOS unit of the Moss 58 piston.

GEM and Palmini both made all-aluminum box mufflers and tuned exhausts for the 58s and 81/82s. Reproductions of the GEM 58/81 box mufflers are currently being made by Vince Hughes, a long time kart guru.

Wiseco made several different high-compression PP heads including one that was a Bronze alloy which supposedly could absorb an incredible amount of heat.


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## Eccentric (Sep 9, 2010)

I have a Mono built Wards WD60 that's powered by an AH58. Looks a lot like Mark's WD90, except it's gold painted and has oblong tanks, like what's on his AH47 Mono. Haven't done much with it yet. I'll snap a few pics. It has a 24 or 25" hardnose and a loop of 1/2" on it. 

One thing's for sure.......................there's TONS of chip/noodle clearance around the clutch on those saws. Bet it'd be a great ripping saw. That's probably all I'll ever use it for, other than running it a bit at GTG's. Might swap an AH81 into it if I stumble accross one cheap.

Somebody posted a link a while ago to an Australian site (possibly to a part of McBob's site IIRC) where there were images of old Kart engine hopup parts flyers. One of them listed stroker cranks for many of the Mac, West Bend and Tecumseh/PP engines. There was a crank listed that took a stock bore AH58 from 5.8 to 6.4 cubes. That'd make my Monkey Wards more interesting, especialy with one of the Kart reed blocks I've seen on feebay. There were stroker cranks for the AH81 as well..............with one taking that engine well over 9 cubes IIRC. I'll see if I can find the link...


I'd be interested in bearings and seals, as well as a piston and rings for the AH58 if somebody finds a source......................and REALLY interested in one of them AH58 stroker cranks!


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## wigglesworth (Sep 9, 2010)

chainsawwhisperer said:


> Hey Wiggs!
> I don't see this ever becoming a 'sticky'. lol



LOL...me either. But heck, there might as well be some info on them somewhere.


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## wigglesworth (Sep 9, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> There's a number of karters running the AH-58s, AH-81s, and AH-82s these days. A number of changes have to be made in order to get these engines to turn serious RPM reliably, as mentioned above and make good power.
> 
> The port timing in the 58s and 81s has to be changed quite a bit and the reciprocating assembly lightened. Different needle rollers for the big end of the rod and in some cases, a different rod altogether is used. A different reed block (also mentioned above) is also needed. The stock reed blocks on the 58s and 81s are very poor and have marginal flow characteristics. GEM and Palmini both made aftermarket intakes for all of the Power Products engines. The GEM reed blocks used the Go-Power pyramid reed cage and the Palmini intake used the reed cage from the older, large Homelite saws.
> 
> ...




You can throw that aftermarket 58 stuff in that box headed this way if you want to.  

I just picked up the AH-58 saw, well most of it, as it has some damage to the flywheel cover and some parts missing, but it fires on a prime, and the P&C is in excellent shape, so its under the bench now waiting on an oppurtunity. I have found a site "Bills vintage Karts", who has quite a bit of PP parts, but am having trouble getting ahold of him.

I do find it odd that others dont think that they are up to snuff in the power department. The 81 powered saw I have doesnt feel underpowered by any means. Heavy as a tank, but seems to pull that big ol' 7/16 chain with ease. I am gonna make a rim drive setup for it and slap some .404 full chisel on it to see if that doesnt speed her up a bit. They deffinetly arent high RPM motors, but have torque to spare IMHO.


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## RandyMac (Sep 9, 2010)

The AH47 wasn't really made to produce loads of power, longevity was it's forte. I have a Lancaster with the 95cc PP motor, it may lack speed, but not power. Chain speed is one part of chainsaw preformance, the ability to maintain speed under load is more important.


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## Eccentric (Sep 9, 2010)

Here's the stroker crank link, posted by Chaugnar in the McCulloch Chainsaws thread.



chaugnar said:


> http://macbobaust.com/cranks.html
> 
> i want one.



I'm hoping I can run a clutch bell (or adapt complete clutch setup) from another saw, such as a Homelite C-Series on my Monkey Wards, so I can run .404 on it. A rim drive would be best, so I could take advantage of the high grunt factor (and make up for lack of RPM's) of the AH58. A higher pin count rim would make up for less RPM's in this case methinks...


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## heimannm (Sep 10, 2010)

Or you could make your own rim drive set up like someone did for the big saw pictured above.











Not much for looks but it runs amazingly true...

Mark


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## mweba (Sep 10, 2010)

I have owned several but only kept a few. This is my current Mono project.











Would like to note that you have to be carefull when removing the flywheel and clutch on these engines. Seem to have a ramdom application of right and left hand threads.


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## madhatte (Sep 10, 2010)

mweba said:


> Would like to note that you have to be carefull when removing the flywheel and clutch on these engines. Seem to have a ramdom application of right and left hand threads.



Yeah, about that... I have a nice DB that WOULD be a runner if only I could get spark, which I would do if only I could get the flywheel off... suggestions?


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## mweba (Sep 10, 2010)

madhatte said:


> Yeah, about that... I have a nice DB that WOULD be a runner if only I could get spark, which I would do if only I could get the flywheel off... suggestions?



Some can be stuborne. On this one I used a plastic felling wedge to apply some pressure. Used an aluminum flywheel punch with the nut on the end of the crank to prevent expansion or damage to the threads. Give her a good smack.


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## madhatte (Sep 10, 2010)

Plastic wedges! Great idea!


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## turtle561 (Sep 10, 2010)

The GEM reed blocks used the Go-Power pyramid reed cage and the Palmini intake used the reed cage from the older, large Homelite saws. .[/QUOTE]

thanks jacob j- that brought back a karting memory. had a go-power stuffer with the large homelite pyramid reeds on my clinton A490. boy did that wake it up. eventually ended in breaking the rod, but boy did it fly til then. or so i thought. yee haw


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## Urbicide (Sep 10, 2010)

Those Lauson-Power Products engines (eventually Tecumseh) were used by an incredible number of chain saw manufacturers during the '50s & '60s. For basic information, try to locate some of the early Intertec chain saw service manuals. Most of the companies that used the PP engines are long gone. CPD, up in Anoka Minnesota, is the Tecumseh parts distributor since Tecumseh Inc. went belly up. I had a phone # for CPD, for their tech department, but seem to have lost it. I do remember speaking with a tech named Mike who was very helpful. I don't believe that they ever converted the paper files over to electronic ones. You do have to have the exact engine code for CPD to be able to locate your engine in a large, good old-fashioned book.

I have 4 different brands of saws that each have 2 things in common: They all have AH-47 engines & they are all locked up. Included in the mix are a Lombard, Barker, Monarch, & a Mono. Seems that the recoils get separated from the engines once the engines no longer are able to be turned over.

I don't think that PP ever offered over-sized rings or pistons, only standard sizes. 

Tecumseh 2-cycle carburetors seem to all share a common diaphragm and needle & seat, but there may be exceptions. These are fairly easy to locate.

Can anyone recommend a good source of NOS parts?


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## donthraen (Sep 10, 2010)

madhatte said:


> Yeah, about that... I have a nice DB that WOULD be a runner if only I could get spark, which I would do if only I could get the flywheel off... suggestions?



I used a hub puller---just put some pressure on it then hit top of puller and off it came


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## donthraen (Sep 10, 2010)

I have a Titan 4100 77cc and it runs real good and strong for its age---You cant compare an old saw to newer saws wen youre talking power cause they changed so much---I would like to See Thea's oldies return with new technology in them


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## donthraen (Sep 10, 2010)

Titan 4100 and it works---I run it with a 20in roller tip bar and 3/4 full chisel chain---Very loud and fun


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## Jacob J. (Sep 10, 2010)

Urbicide said:


> Can anyone recommend a good source of NOS parts?



Hey Vince-

Try Brian Thomas. I'll PM you his number.


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## Eccentric (Sep 10, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Or you could make your own rim drive set up like someone did for the big saw pictured above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very interesting Mark. Might have to do something like that someday...



Lots of good info here guys. This thread is great!!!


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## Eccentric (Sep 10, 2010)

donthraen said:


> Titan 4100 and it works---I run it with a 20in roller tip bar and 3/4 full chisel chain---Very loud and fun



You run 3/4" chain on that saw? Where'd you get a 3/4" sprocket for it? It should have 7/16" chain if it's stock.. 


http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...3e40601eb7bb1d3e88256be1004d2b61?OpenDocument


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## madhatte (Sep 10, 2010)

donthraen said:


> I used a hub puller---just put some pressure on it then hit top of puller and off it came




Tried that; can't get a good enough grip. Jaws are too big.


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## Urbicide (Sep 10, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> Hey Vince-
> 
> Try Brian Thomas. I'll PM you his number.



Thanks Jacob!


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## Sprintcar (Sep 10, 2010)

I need one of these. AH-47 piston and ring set.










Any leads as to where to get one of these, new or used is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## donthraen (Sep 10, 2010)

Eccentric said:


> You run 3/4" chain on that saw? Where'd you get a 3/4" sprocket for it? It should have 7/16" chain if it's stock..
> 
> 
> http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...3e40601eb7bb1d3e88256be1004d2b61?OpenDocument



crap I'm sorry I hit the wrong number and didn't notice its a 3/8---A bit beater---Is their even such a chain as a 3/4 ---Its hard enough to find a 1/2 chain---I didn't get the bar and chain with the saw but the sprocket and hub wear on it---I just thought the roller tip bar was a good mach for it---Aegean sorry about the number---Thank you for correcting me


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## donthraen (Sep 10, 2010)

madhatte said:


> Tried that; can't get a good enough grip. Jaws are too big.



can you make one or borrow a smaller puller---also use a good penetrating oil


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## donthraen (Sep 10, 2010)

Sprintcar said:


> I need one of these. AH-47 piston and ring set.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the rings look ok but ouch what happened


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## Deprime (Sep 13, 2010)

Hey Eccentric. Found a few parts on this site. Saw a piston/ring/pin set and a ring set for the AH-58. Also saw some bearings and seals.

http://www.billsvintagekartengines.com/power_products.html


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## lawnmowertech37 (Sep 13, 2010)

wigglesworth said:


> I have recently acquired a few Power Products powered saws. For some reason there is little to no info on the web about them, other than they were used in saws, karts, mowers and such. They are dead nuts simple engines, that make good power, but there seems to be a lack of interest in the general population of chainsaw idiots such as myself. Not real sure why though??
> 
> So, what models you got, and what info do you have on them?
> 
> So far I have acquired a Wards with an AH81 (131cc), a Mono with the AH58 (95cc) and a couple David Bradleys with the AH47 (77cc).



Power products was later known as Tecumseh


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## Eccentric (Sep 13, 2010)

Deprime said:


> Hey Eccentric. Found a few parts on this site. Saw a piston/ring/pin set and a ring set for the AH-58. Also saw some bearings and seals.
> 
> http://www.billsvintagekartengines.com/power_products.html



Cool!!!


Thanks for finding and posting it. Now I'm off to go dig through the site...


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 17, 2010)

I currently have two saws powered by AH series engines, both are sears branded. First is a 917.351050 with a 70.5cc AH440 and the second is a 917.60049 with a 77cc AH47.


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 17, 2010)

*NOS AH-58 cylinder kit*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Vint...m3360eef035QQitemZ220669603893QQptZGoQ5fKarts


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## Modifiedmark (Sep 17, 2010)

Roanoker494 said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Vint...m3360eef035QQitemZ220669603893QQptZGoQ5fKarts



Heck I can't get even half of that for a complete AH-58 saw with cyl that looks almost that good


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## little possum (Sep 18, 2010)

David Bradly UG4 or U4G or whatever it is- AH47
And Falls Silver King AH81

Still working on some issues with the Falls, sure would be nice to find a p/c for it.

Also have another UG4 upstairs, orange in color, just leaks all the oil out of the tank after pressing the oiler once. 
And another project that would probably need a full restore.

I enjoy these saws, very simple design that keeps on going


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## Roanoker494 (Sep 18, 2010)

Modifiedmark said:


> Heck I can't get even half of that for a complete AH-58 saw with cyl that looks almost that good



I was actually just looking at that ad, may be interested myself. I am starting to collect a few old saws and that would make a nice addition.


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## Work Saw Collector (Sep 28, 2010)

*One I just Got.*

This thread needs a bump anyway.



supercabs78 said:


> I just got in from a local Auction.  I picked up this running David Bradley should be a fun saw at GTG's you should see the sparkes that fly from the muffler in the dark.
> 
> 
> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/supercabs78/5024772426/" title="David bradley 917-60001 by supercabs78, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/5024772426_fc52982062.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="David bradley 917-60001" /></a>
> ...


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## madhatte (Sep 28, 2010)

Got me a Three-Sixty just like that. Can't seem to get it to run, though. Need to rig up a flywheel puller so I can get at the ignition.


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## 67L36Driver (Nov 13, 2011)

Well fellas, how do you tell what model Power Products engine that this may have.

View attachment 207109





View attachment 207110






Got some recoil parts off evilbay so I can crank it, but no spark and only 95psi.

By popsicle stick measure, it is a 2 1/16" bore.


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## NORMZILLA44 (Nov 13, 2011)

Dont know much about the saw's mentioned. But great thread I can read up!


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## Eccentric (Nov 13, 2011)

Carl you may be back in business with just a set of rings. Most of the PP engines never had more than about 130PSI compression from what I've seen. There are some real gurus here. Hopefuly Jacob J will join us. He's a wealth of knowledge.


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## 67L36Driver (Nov 13, 2011)

I'll have to look again at Hastings website. Once you get to 2" and over, standard piston rings should be easy to get. There is always 'The Greek'.

B.T.W. That clutch cover is nothing but a flat piece of roofing tin. Leave it off and you would have a 'noodle special'.


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## Eccentric (Nov 13, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> I'll have to look again at Hastings website. Once you get to 2" and over, standard piston rings should be easy to get. There is always 'The Greek'.
> 
> B.T.W. That clutch cover is nothing but a flat piece of roofing tin. Leave it off and you would have a 'noodle special'.



That's how my AH58 powered Mono/Wards WD60 is. No clutch cover at all. Wide open noodle special...


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## Jacob J. (Nov 14, 2011)

Most likely it's an AH-48. Those are over a 2" bore (2.09) and have the removable head.

The 47 is a true 2" bore engine with the fixed head. The 58 is a 2.09" bore engine with a removable head but has a much longer stroke
than the 48. 

That's an interesting saw. A lot of Wards' equipment from those days was of minimalist design.

We had a large 16 horse Wards Rototiller (front tine) that my dad bought new in '71 and that thing would beat you to death.


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## Mr. Bow Saw (Nov 14, 2011)

Eccentric said:


> Carl you may be back in business with just a set of rings. Most of the PP engines never had more than about 130PSI compression from what I've seen. There are some real gurus here. Hopefuly Jacob J will join us. He's a wealth of knowledge.





stinkbait said:


> It's amazing how low the compression is on the engines. Here is part of service manual that I have that list the compression numbers for the AH engines.



Low compression on these.


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## Mr. Bow Saw (Nov 14, 2011)

stinkbait said:


> I have been having trouble attaching the info to my emails that I have been sending out so I have decided to just post the info in this thread for everyone.



Lots of good info here.


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## Mr. Bow Saw (Nov 14, 2011)

stinkbait said:


> ...continued



The rest of info he posted.


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## wigglesworth (Nov 14, 2011)

I searched high and low for any piston ported AH-47 info to no avail, as I picked up a Lombard S150 and it had a piston ported motor, not reed valved, and there it is, in the upper right hand corner. They call it a "third port". Interesting. Ill have to dig it out. IIRC, a carb kit and she would be a runner.


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## 67L36Driver (Nov 14, 2011)

Thanks Mr. Bow Saw!!!

We measured the bore at 2.092" and the stroke at 1.412" (dial caliper) for a whopping 4.9 in. cu. I guess it is an AH480

We are putting the head back on this pup since 90 psi is A OK. 

Wish I had access to a lathe. The clearence (squish) is in excess of .200". I'd take some off the end of the cylinder, but it has no compression relief valve.


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## 67L36Driver (Nov 14, 2011)

Jacob J. said:


> Most likely it's an AH-48. Those are over a 2" bore (2.09) and have the removable head.
> 
> The 47 is a true 2" bore engine with the fixed head. The 58 is a 2.09" bore engine with a removable head but has a much longer stroke
> than the 48.
> ...



Mom and Dad always had a big garden. About '55 Dad bought a front tine tiller. 'Bout the time I got out of grade school I was supposed to run it for Mom. Beat my skinny! 13 y.o. arse to death.


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## Work Saw Collector (Nov 14, 2011)

Thanks guys, some great info.


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## Work Saw Collector (Nov 14, 2011)

*David Bradley 360*

I thought I had put this saw in this thread but didn't. I don't know where I posted it, anyway here is a AH47 I keep around for a while traded it to Logging22 last years GTG. I have another one just like it with a longer bar. Thanks for the bar Wiggs.

<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.flickr.com/apps/video/stewart.swf?v=109786" bgcolor="#000000" allowfullscreen="true" flashvars="intl_lang=en-us&photo_secret=a306f110bc&photo_id=5598807015" height="300" width="400"></embed>


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## 67L36Driver (Nov 15, 2011)

The problem with the clutch turned out to be a broken spring. Found a complete clutch w/drum sprocket on evilbay but only need the spring. 

Anyone have a spring?

The clutch is a Hoffco comet like this but L.H. threaded bore. 

View attachment 207346






The center threads are 9/16" L.H. same as a Remington 75A by the way.


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## cpr (Nov 15, 2011)

Good to know on the compression. I put aside my Root when the new p&c made such low compression. Guess it was good after all.


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## 67L36Driver (Nov 29, 2011)

Will this: Tecumseh OEM #630978 Diaphram | eBay work for the Powere Products carb on my Powr Kraft?


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## Urbicide (Nov 30, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> Will this: Tecumseh OEM #630978 Diaphram | eBay work for the Powere Products carb on my Powr Kraft?



Yes. All of the Tecumseh/Power Products-manufactured diaphragm carburetors use the same metering diaphragm & gasket. These carbs also share the same needle & seat between them.


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## 67L36Driver (Nov 30, 2011)

Urbicide said:


> Yes. All of the Tecumseh/Power Products-manufactured diaphragm carburetors use the same metering diaphragm & gasket. These carbs also share the same needle & seat between them.



Thanks bud, I bookmarked several of them on evilbay but the cover plate on the carb. is marked Power Products Lauson and wasn't sure about the Tecumseh connection.

I spent yesterday on the ignition so now I have spark. All remains to be done is the carb. diaphram and a fuel tank cleaning.

B.T.W.: The sprocket/drum is 8 tooth x 3/8". An effort to get chain speed up I surmise.
View attachment 209172


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 4, 2011)

*For the record.*

And the next poor soul searching along. 

The Wards Powr Kraft was actually a Hoffco 480.
View attachment 209877





View attachment 209878





View attachment 209876


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## cpr (Dec 4, 2011)

I got this Root back in the spring and went through everything. Had to replace the piston and cylinder on it. You can read that story in the kart engine thread. Anyway, when I was done, it checked out at a shade under 90psi. I got kinda dissappointed and shelved it. After reading the above a few days ago, I got it back out to see if she'd fire. Sure enough, she talks a good game. Don't know how much snot she's got yet. Need a button for the oiler and it appears the clutch springs are a little weak. Large mount Mac bars fit this, so I slapped one on to start her and made this crappy cell phone vid.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-89OmvD7z00" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## logging22 (Dec 4, 2011)

Love the old iron. Thanks for all the info fellas!


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 4, 2011)

*cpr:* That ain't no leaf blower. Sound like a real chainsaw.


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 9, 2011)

*Power Products carb. needs help.*

Thanks to you all for guidence I got the Wards Powr Kraft/Hoffco 480 running after a fashon.

Major problem is with the carb.. If I open the H jet screw even a 1/4 turn off the seat, it blubbers and 4 strokes and won't accelerate at all. If I have it closed or nearly so it will respond to the trigger somewhat but lacks any real power. The L jet screw is open about 1 turn.

I cleaned the carb. body in Chem Dip and then in lacquer thinner. Blew all the passages I found with Gumout. Needle and seat looked OK so I just put a new diaphram in as the old one was like a pane of glass. I didn't see anything that looked like welsh plugs.

Did I miss something?

Would a bad spark plug act like this? I cleaned and set the points and now have a good fat spark.


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## RandyMac (Dec 9, 2011)




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## 67L36Driver (Dec 9, 2011)

RandyMac said:


>



Cool!


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## cpr (Dec 9, 2011)

Love that Silver King Randy.


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## RandyMac (Dec 9, 2011)

Thanks cpr, that was a gift from an old friend as was the big Lancaster.

The AH58 is a Power Bee, thinkin' on upgrading the intake.


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## Urbicide (Dec 16, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> Revisited the carb. and put in a new needle/seat. Pulled the welsh plug but it was clean in there. Now *when I put gas in the tank, it runs out the carb. throat.* Yikes!
> 
> Do you shorten the little stem on the needle or what to keep it from flooding?



Is the little rubber valve seat washer in position down inside the brass seat housing? It's pretty tiny. 

Is the inlet needle spring there?

Is the metering diaphragm installed so that the rivet on the diaphragm contacts the stem of the needle? 

The metering diaphragm _gasket_ goes between the diaphragm and the carburetor body on some models and, on other models, the diaphragm goes between the carburetor body and the metering diaphragm gasket. If the sequence is wrong, then the height will be off. If you aren't sure, get the Tecumseh model # off of the carb. I've got a couple of old Tecumseh manuals & I can try to see if I can (A) Find the carb. (B) Check the diaphragm/gasket sequence for you.


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 16, 2011)

Urbicide said:


> *Is the little rubber valve seat washer in position down inside the brass seat housing? It's pretty tiny.*
> 
> Is the inlet needle spring there?
> 
> ...



Dang nab it, you're quick. I deleted the post when I found the problem.

That's exactly what was missing. That tiny little pup didn't show his face untill I had both new and old brass 'seat housings' next to each other.

Dark outside or I'd try to run him.

Thanks
Carl.


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## chainsawwhisperer (Dec 16, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> Thanks cpr, that was a gift from an old friend as was the big Lancaster.
> 
> The AH58 is a Power Bee, thinkin' on upgrading the intake.



Them is some cool saws Kid! 
Jim


----------



## Urbicide (Dec 16, 2011)

67L36Driver said:


> Dang nab it, you're quick. I deleted the post when I found the problem.
> 
> That's exactly what was missing. That tiny little pup didn't show his face untill I had both new and old brass 'seat housings' next to each other.
> 
> ...


Not a problem!

Vince


----------



## 67L36Driver (Dec 17, 2011)

*Wards Powr Kraft runs and cuts.*

Fired him up this morning after getting the needle/seat thing fixed last night. I have the L needle open about a 1/4 turn and the H needle closed. Somewhere in the scan Mr. Bow Saw posted got my attention about a drilled passage on some Techumseh carbs and starting with both needles closed.

That passage may need to be a tad smaller as he goes in and out of four stroking while cutting. If you maintain the right amount of pressure on the bar you can get him to run clean.

The vibes are really strong and you watch the bar whip back and forth while cutting. 

What a hoot!

View attachment 211894


----------



## dff110 (Mar 18, 2012)

*David Bradley, Looking for information.*

I picked up this nice old David Bradley Gear Reduction saw. Model # 917.60005 at an Auction Yesterday.









The saw looks to be in great condition, and had not been sitting long. I plan on tearing it down, cleaning it up, get it running, and put a nice coat of paint on to make a Good show saw.

The problem is, I normally only work on Remingtons, and I would like to have some more information on this before I start working on it. Any information you could give me on rebuilding this saw would be a great help. IPL's, Service Manuals, or some personal experience would be awesome.

Thanks
DFF110


----------



## little possum (Mar 18, 2012)

Check the piston through the exhaust port, clean the points, install a carb kit most likely, and off to the races you go! But expect to be there all day


----------



## cpr (Mar 18, 2012)

Visually inspect, don't rely on the comp tester. I got discouraged when a new p & c blew 95 psi... Then I found out that was new spec.

Also, don't overtighten the jug, they're notorious for breaking the ears, especially the 8.1.


----------



## dff110 (Mar 25, 2012)

These old saws are amazing. I got out the David Bradley again today. Put some fresh gas in, and opened up the fuel shut-off. (Which is hard to find, and isn't labeled at all) 

With-in 10 pulls it was up and running again, had to adjust the carb to get it to run smooth. Chain was still sharp and it tore through a nice oak log like it was butter. It is amazing what you can get at a sale for $25. 

This is the first Gear Redution saw I have owned, and I'm unsure about final tuning for the carb. I have always been under the assumption that gear reduction saws should always spin at a lower rpm, and have a lot of tourqe to really dig into a log, and just chew through.

Can anyone give me some insight on this. I don' t want to lean it out too much, run too fast, and ruin the saw.

Thanks
Dustin


----------



## RandyMac (Mar 25, 2012)

Tune it like a regular vintage saw, it should 4 stroke out of the cut and clean up at WOT. They need to be tuned while working or you will be way lean.
The myth that gear-drives rev slow is a hang over from the early 1950s. 
Get your mitts on a late 60s or early '70s McCulloch or Homelite, they rev pretty good and have a feel of power you will not get with any other saw. The 87cc Mac 660 can buck 8 foot logs all day long and you won't get drowsy doing it. The 6-7 cube models pull heavy chain on a 72" bar with little effort.
Keep in mind that a gear-drive will continue cutting in a bind long after a direct-drive would have stalled, often resulting with the saw walking out of the kerf, with surprising speed and force. Never have any part of your body in line with a chainsaw, any chainsaw, however a hit from a 40+ pound alloy torpedo can cause considerable damage. We aren't talking about mere cuts here, shattered bones and internal injuries can result.


----------



## MnSam (Mar 25, 2012)

My Lombard F-54, AH-47 engine. It's a runner, but needs the carb gone through. I have new rings I was going to put in but read on here the compression on these is fairly low to start with, so I haven't done it yet.


----------



## Busmech (Mar 25, 2012)

I'm trying to fix an old Bolens 3600 gear drive for a friend and it is missing the starter. It is an AH47 PP with a clockwise Fairbanks- Morse starter. The saw runs fine but starting it with a rope wraped around the starter cup is not optimal. If anyone has one they would like to sell or trade please let me know.


----------



## 67L36Driver (Mar 25, 2012)

Busmech said:


> I'm trying to fix an old Bolens 3600 gear drive for a friend and it is missing the starter. It is an AH47 PP with a clockwise Fairbanks- Morse starter. The saw runs fine but starting it with a rope wraped around the starter cup is not optimal. If anyone has one they would like to sell or trade please let me know.



I got one off evilbay just to salvage the starter dog engagement bits. I now have a leftover cover, pulley and spring if you need that much. AH480 engine. Look at lawnmower parts also.






They are reversible by the way.


----------



## Eccentric (Mar 25, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Tune it like a regular vintage saw, it should 4 stroke out of the cut and clean up at WOT. They need to be tuned while working or you will be way lean.
> The myth that gear-drives rev slow is a hang over from the early 1950s.
> Get your mitts on a late 60s or early '70s McCulloch or Homelite, they rev pretty good and have a feel of power you will not get with any other saw. The 87cc Mac 660 can buck 8 foot logs all day long and you won't get drowsy doing it. The 6-7 cube models pull heavy chain on a 72" bar with little effort.
> Keep in mind that a gear-drive will continue cutting in a bind long after a direct-drive would have stalled, often resulting with the saw walking out of the kerf, with surprising speed and force. Never have any part of your body in line with a chainsaw, any chainsaw, however a hit from a 40+ pound alloy torpedo can cause considerable damage. We aren't talking about mere cuts here, shattered bones and internal injuries can result.



Yep. Tune it so it four strokes at WOT out of the cut and just cleans up when loaded down in the cut. With a powerful gear drive, you may not be able to load it down enough to clean up unless you're cutting some bigger wood.


----------



## dff110 (Mar 25, 2012)

Eccentric said:


> Yep. Tune it so it four strokes at WOT out of the cut and just cleans up when loaded down in the cut. With a powerful gear drive, you may not be able to load it down enough to clean up unless you're cutting some bigger wood.





I'm just getting started in the vintage chainsaw world, and not the rocket scientist with terms yet. 

Mind putting that in English? Mainly "So it four strokes at WOT"


----------



## Eccentric (Mar 25, 2012)

dff110 said:


> I'm just getting started in the vintage chainsaw world, and not the rocket scientist with terms yet.
> 
> Mind putting that in English? Mainly "So it four strokes at WOT"



WOT is Wide Open Throttle (in this case, when NOT in the cut). Four strokes means it burbles (doesn't run 'clean'). It's something you have to hear to understand.


----------



## dff110 (Mar 26, 2012)

*David Bradley Model 917.60005*

I started stripping down my David Bradley Model 917.60005 today. I have run into a brick wall with getting the fan off.







As seen in the picture, there are two Funny shaped notches on either side of the shaft. I'm assuming these are somehow meant to assist in removing the fan. However, I've banged my head off the wall for a good while trying to figure it out, and came up with nothing.

Hoping someone here can help.

Is there a special tool to remove this fan, or an easy way to do it? Most Remingtons I have worked on have two tapped wholes that you can use a plate and bolts to jack the fan off. Right now it is sitting and soaking with Kroil.

Thanks in Advance
Dustin


----------



## Mr. Bow Saw (Mar 26, 2012)

dff110 said:


> I started stripping down my David Bradley Model 917.60005 today. I have run into a brick wall with getting the fan off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thread the nut back on the crank but leave the nut higher then the end of crank.
So you do not damage the crank. Spray WD-40 on crank and flywheel where they meet.
Hold the saw up by the flywheel fins and a few taps with a hammer and they come off.
There was a few flywheels I had to tap a little harder to have them come off.


----------



## Busmech (Mar 26, 2012)

67L36Driver said:


> I got one off evilbay just to salvage the starter dog engagement bits. I now have a leftover cover, pulley and spring if you need that much. AH480 engine. Look at lawnmower parts also.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the offer but this one uses the old friction type FM starter that has a smooth cup instead of the cogged one like yours.
Mike


----------



## jerrycmorrow (Apr 2, 2012)

i already have a Barker GT-7 and a Sears D49. picked up a monkey ward 89-24102, Type 1460 last week. the saw was apparently submerged. so the carb was packed with mud/dirt. i'm gonna try but not sure i'll ever get it cleaned out. the pump diaphragm is still very flexible so i do have hope. haven't yet cleaned up the points so don't know if i even have spark. meanwhile, trying to scope out some parts. anyone got any points/coil/condenser or lauson carb. these old saws are addicting.


----------



## jerrycmorrow (Apr 2, 2012)

thanks mrstinkbair, wherever you are, for posting the tecumseh/pp data. most helpful. now in my library.


----------



## peter92 (Jun 28, 2012)

heimannm said:


> I had the little Mono with the AH47 but sold it to my brother...I still have my Strunk Shur Kut with the AH47, and the Wards/Mono 90 with the AH81. The big one is pretty well worn and doesn't make a lot of HP but is still capable of producing some ear splitting noise.
> 
> Little AH47 Mono - gone now
> 
> ...


hi mark
i have a saw the same colour as yours, white, ithought it was a mono but i see yours is a ward
mine is the H81 and im after a complete pull starter that bolts onto the cover, would you have one for sale or know who has one for sale
regards peter


----------



## heimannm (Jun 29, 2012)

Try the "Old Magnesium..." thread in the Stickies for possible help.

You could also try contacting Terry Tichner at Ace Saws in Braeside, VIC. He has a lot of old saws himself and may be able to steer you in the right direction.

I know from a few trip around the south east corner of Australia there are a lot of old saws hiding in sheds and barn if you poke around a little.

Mark


----------



## peter92 (Jul 3, 2012)

hi guys, im chasing a complete pull starter for my big 10 AH 81
if any one knows where there is one
also what other motors take the same size pull starter
any help would be great
regards peter


----------



## Warped5 (Dec 7, 2012)

*I got Strunk'd by a fellow AS member!*

Thomas1 posted his pix of the older saws he had scored and something yelled out at me about 'the big yeller one' in the back. I inquired about availability and one thing led to another. Tom and I struck a mutually agreeable deal and a couple weeks later this beast arrived. Tom was entirely reasonable and easy to work with. Looking forward to more possible deals with him.

Here's the pix!

(Sorry about the picture quality. Something about the basement the camera doesn't like.)


























All I've done so far to it is blow it off, wipe it off and spray a bit. From what I've been able to learn it's a Strunk 3-19 rebadged as a David Bradley re-tagged for Sears Roebuck (355.83131). It appears to be complete and has compression and spark. Has a 24" bar with some really mean (rather new) looking chain. The recoil will need some attention, as will the carb most likely. Are rebuild kits available for these carbs or just a replaceable diaphragm? Looking forward to running it! With a 2700 - 4000 RPM operating range and a 3:1 gear reduction, this adds up to 40 pounds of rompin' stompin' wood cuttin' fun!


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 8, 2012)

Warped5 said:


> Thomas1 posted his pix of the older saws he had scored and something yelled out at me about 'the big yeller one' in the back. I inquired about availability and one thing led to another. Tom and I struck a mutually agreeable deal and a couple weeks later this beast arrived. Tom was entirely reasonable and easy to work with. Looking forward to more possible deals with him.
> 
> Here's the pix!
> 
> ...



A saw that heavy deserves its' own thread. 

Glad you're happy with it.


----------



## Mr. Bow Saw (Dec 8, 2012)

Warped5 said:


> Thomas1 posted his pix of the older saws he had scored and something yelled out at me about 'the big yeller one' in the back. I inquired about availability and one thing led to another. Tom and I struck a mutually agreeable deal and a couple weeks later this beast arrived. Tom was entirely reasonable and easy to work with. Looking forward to more possible deals with him.
> 
> Here's the pix!
> 
> ...



There is no diaphragm in the carb, its has a float. There is no kits that I know of.
All you need to do is take it apart and clean it. You may have to make one gasket for 
it. If the reeds look clean with no rust or corrosion and your just getting the saw running
I would leaving them where they are at.


----------



## paccity (Dec 12, 2012)

cool old saw. this is the davidbradly version of it. never herd of the bulldog recoil. i'll be fallowing your thread on yours.


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## Warped5 (Dec 12, 2012)

paccity said:


> cool old saw. this is the davidbradly version of it. never herd of the bulldog recoil. i'll be fallowing your thread on yours.



Good morning, Fraser .... I may have gotten behind while I was ahead of myself. I'm referring to the saw as a Strunk, when it's actually a David Bradley like yours and also wearing a Sears tag. Guess I just prefer to go to the 'root' is all ...

Besides, nobody's ever going to say that 'David Bradley' sounds cool ..... 'Strunk' on the other hand ..


----------



## thomas1 (Dec 12, 2012)

Warped5 said:


> Good morning, Fraser .... I may have gotten behind while I was ahead of myself. I'm referring to the saw as a Strunk, when it's actually a David Bradley like yours and also wearing a Sears tag. Guess I just prefer to go to the 'root' is all ...
> 
> Besides, nobody's ever going to say that 'David Bradley' sounds cool ..... 'Strunk' on the other hand ..



Quit confusing everybody, it's definitely not a Root. Jeez...


----------



## cpr (Dec 18, 2012)

Intriguing PP on Battle Creek CL. Almost worth driving over tomorrow on my day off... but I've got enough in the shop to play with.








View attachment 268401
View attachment 268402


----------



## Chris-PA (Dec 18, 2012)

cpr said:


> Intriguing PP on Battle Creek CL. Almost worth driving over tomorrow on my day off... but I've got enough in the shop to play with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You need that!


----------



## cpr (Dec 18, 2012)

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> You need that!



With that dent in the pipe, it'd be nothing more than a conversation piece (not that anyone ever comes over to talk saws with me). 4 hours round trip in the car isn't worth it.


----------



## greg409 (Dec 18, 2012)

cpr said:


> With that dent in the pipe, it'd be nothing more than a conversation piece (not that anyone ever comes over to talk saws with me). 4 hours round trip in the car isn't worth it.



Ditto - That pipe looks more suitable for a 450cc high mount dirt bike, cute, but no better than the factory open tube.

luck,greg


----------



## Warped5 (Dec 19, 2012)

*AH-47 engine with Tillotson MD-60A carb ...*

Carb QOD: The carb has a 'main channel' running from front to back and I'd like to get it cleaned out. No question in my mind that it needs it. There are plugs at each end; what material can I replace these plugs with if I remove them? Thanks!


----------



## 67L36Driver (Dec 19, 2012)

Warped5 said:


> Carb QOD: The carb has a 'main channel' running from front to back and I'd like to get it cleaned out. No question in my mind that it needs it. There are plugs at each end; what material can I replace these plugs with if I remove them? Thanks!



Shooting from the hip, lead buck/bird shot comes to mind.

Back in the 'olden days' automotive carb. kits sometimes came with small lead balls to reseal a passage or two.

Gas was .19.9/gal. and I drove my '52 Olds all week on two bucks.:msp_ohmy:


Enuff room to tap for a small and short socket set screw?


----------



## Warped5 (Dec 19, 2012)

67L36Driver said:


> Shooting from the hip, lead buck/bird shot comes to mind.
> 
> Back in the 'olden days' automotive carb. kits sometimes came with small lead balls to reseal a passage or two.
> 
> ...



Carl, you got me thinking .... I need to plug about 1/16" at one end and about 1/8" at the other. I think lead shot and a set screw would be just the tickets! Thanks!


----------



## Warped5 (Dec 20, 2012)

Update: I found a complete carb kit and some bits at Discount Marine. Will stop by the local hardware store this afternoon to check out these set screws ....


----------



## little possum (Dec 20, 2012)

cpr said:


> With that dent in the pipe, it'd be nothing more than a conversation piece (not that anyone ever comes over to talk saws with me). 4 hours round trip in the car isn't worth it.


Im coming up there one day! Mostly for the IH talk though


----------



## paccity (Dec 22, 2012)

rootin around and realized i had twins.


----------



## paccity (Dec 22, 2012)

and a few more that need cleaned up.


----------



## Warped5 (Dec 28, 2012)

Looking for crank seals for my AH-47 David Bradley (Strunk). All the info I've found this morning is inconclusive. 

Any help would be appreciated!


----------



## 67L36Driver (Dec 28, 2012)

paccity said:


>



What size is that Wards/Remington?


----------



## paccity (Dec 29, 2012)

this one?


----------



## paccity (Dec 29, 2012)

wards, i like the plug cover.


----------



## 67L36Driver (Dec 29, 2012)

paccity said:


> this one?



Yup. Wards/Remy PL-4. Too bad I have two or three now. 

I have been looking for a serviceable PL-5 or SL-11 piston.

I don't know what the deal was but, all the Wards marketed saws have the squared off recoil housing. Just to make 'em different, I suppose.


----------



## Warped5 (Dec 29, 2012)

Warped5 said:


> Looking for crank seals for my AH-47 David Bradley (Strunk). All the info I've found this morning is inconclusive.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated!



I should clarify ... actually looking for the part number for the crank seals.


----------



## logging22 (Dec 29, 2012)

Warped5 said:


> I should clarify ... actually looking for the part number for the crank seals.



I have been looking for this info as well. For some time now. No closer than i was when i started looking. Probably just have to take one apart and get the mike out and measure it.


----------



## logging22 (Dec 29, 2012)

Warped5 said:


> I should clarify ... actually looking for the part number for the crank seals.



FOUND THEM!!! Part number is 510105 or 510319. Get this. They are in stock. 7.99 ea. How kool is that.


----------



## paccity (Jan 5, 2013)

diggin again and now triplets.


----------



## Warped5 (Jan 15, 2013)

logging22 said:


> FOUND THEM!!! Part number is 510105 or 510319. Get this. They are in stock. 7.99 ea. How kool is that.



I went chasing this down today ...

While I was reasonably sure of the number(s), there was just enough missing information on Sears site to cast some doubt. Did some digging, called some numbers and talked to some folks.

The 510319 supercedes 510105 and is valid.

Seals ordered.

.. just hope I can get enough fresh fish to keep them fed. :jester:


----------



## makguy (Jan 15, 2013)

I posted this a while back to see if anyone could identify it, and was told it's an AH47 powerplant.....but it's a left handed saw. I need a new top end for it, I assume a normal AH47 top end will work if I rotate the cylinder 180 degrees. Any thoughts? Any idea who made it?


----------



## 67L36Driver (Jan 19, 2014)

Since the Power Products AH-47 engine is so common, can I take one from a David-Bradley and bolt it to my Indian 351D chassis?
The Indian pumps only 70 psi. But, has spark.


----------



## 67L36Driver (Nov 14, 2014)

Better late than never.

Again, 70 psi is the middle of 'normal'. Got it running and cutting and it now lives in Kansas City.

It had automatic oiling by the way.


----------



## 67L36Driver (Nov 20, 2014)

Mono with a Power Products 81 engine. Just got it running for a fellow member. Loud, just what the neighbors needed.


You can watch the fire coming out the exhaust port.


----------



## 67L36Driver (Sep 10, 2015)

Bump for the begging for manuals people.


----------



## ray benson (Sep 10, 2015)

Hard to find much David Bradley saw info 917.60035 that uses the AH-47 engine. Did locate the Tecumseh Power Products split engine manual. Sears parts had a parts diagram but most parts are no longer available. Never found an owners manual.


----------



## peter92 (Sep 10, 2015)

Wish i had that pull starter lol


----------



## JonCraig (Sep 10, 2015)

I have a Mono SL245 w/ a PP AH44. It runs, but it looks like the ring gap is right in the middle of the exhaust port. There doesn't appear to be the little "pin" that I'm used to that holds the ring in place. Does that sound strange?

On further examination, it has two rings. Possibly just one is intact and that still provides enough compression for the engine to run?


----------



## JonCraig (Sep 10, 2015)

pic of the ring:


----------



## peter92 (Sep 10, 2015)

JonCraig said:


> pic of the ring:
> View attachment 446635


I thought there was 2 rings, i would say the gap you see is a broken ring
peter


----------



## Rx7man (Sep 10, 2015)

With that type of exhaust port you don't need the ring locating pin since there's never a large port it needs to cross.. pretty much all the old 2 strokes had that kind of port. Some (Titan blue streak for example) had 3 rings, 2 were compression rings, and a ring on the bottom of the piston to keep the crankcase sealed off from the exhaust port, I figure with the tighter tolerances of the new engines they didn't need it anymore since the piston was close enough to the cylinder wall it wouldn't leak significantly anyhow


----------



## 67L36Driver (Sep 11, 2015)

peter92 said:


> I thought there was 2 rings, i would say the gap you see is a broken ring
> peter



Nope! Not broken. 

Lots of support for the rings on that style of port. No locator pin needed.

Stagger the gaps at 180 degrees and you are good.


----------



## peter92 (Sep 11, 2015)

67L36Driver said:


> Nope! Not broken.
> 
> Lots of support for the rings on that style of port. No locator pin needed.
> 
> Stagger the gaps at 180 degrees and you are good.


Thats good news


----------



## pioneerguy600 (Sep 11, 2015)

Good thing there is still some good ole mag guys on here, not that many left anymore.!


----------



## JonCraig (Sep 11, 2015)

Awesome--thank you!

Now just waiting on the carb kit to arrive from fleabay.


----------



## Deererainman (Oct 19, 2015)

Not a Chainsaw, but I recently rescued/resurrected a this mower. Did some yard trimming today.


----------



## peter92 (Oct 22, 2015)

could some one tell me if this would fit the AH81 engine please
http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-min...318039?hash=item419ea268d7:g:rRkAAOSwQPlV9Mo3
Peter


----------



## heimannm (Oct 22, 2015)

It does not look at all like either of the ones I have (had).







Mark


----------



## peter92 (Oct 22, 2015)

heimannm said:


> It does not look at all like either of the ones I have (had).
> 
> View attachment 455203
> 
> ...


Hi Mark, thanks for that
Gee these things are hard to find, dont suppose you know where there is one for me


----------



## Warped5 (Oct 22, 2015)

peter92 said:


> could some one tell me if this would fit the AH81 engine please
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-min...318039?hash=item419ea268d7:g:rRkAAOSwQPlV9Mo3
> Peter



With the rope oriented that way, if it's for a saw it would probably be for a gear drive.


----------



## 67L36Driver (Oct 22, 2015)

peter92 said:


> could some one tell me if this would fit the AH81 engine please
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-min...318039?hash=item419ea268d7:g:rRkAAOSwQPlV9Mo3
> Peter


Doubtful. Rotates wrong direction for a direct drive saw. Don't look like it can be reversed.

Edit: forty one seconds behind Wingnut.


----------



## peter92 (Oct 22, 2015)

67L36Driver said:


> Doubtful. Rotates wrong direction for a direct drive saw. Don't look like it can be reversed.
> 
> Edit: forty one seconds behind Wingnut.


Thanks Phil
They are as hard to find as rocking horse ****


----------



## peter92 (Oct 22, 2015)

Phil, any idea of the plug gap on the AH81 saw
Ive got mine set at 20 thou but its popping alot when i adjust the H screw
Peter


----------



## ray benson (Oct 22, 2015)

peter92 said:


> Phil, any idea of the plug gap on the AH81 saw
> Ive got mine set at 20 thou but its popping alot when i adjust the H screw
> Peter


Out of that Tecumseh service manual.
SPARK PLUG. Recommended
Champion spark plug numbers are
shown in the following chart:
AH36(type70) CJ8
AH47, AH58,
AH81 (chain saw) J8J
Go-Kart engines, short racesAH51,AH82
J4J
AH61 (bushing engine) J6J
AH61 (std. & super) L4J
AH58 with % inch
(9.53 mm) reach J4J
AH58 (type 1370 & 1371) L7
AH58 with V2 inch
(12.70 mm) reach L4J
Go-Kart engines, long racesAH51,AH82
J2J
AH61 (bushing engine) J4J
AH61 (std. & super) .L57R
AH58 with % inch
(9.53 mm) reach J2J
AH58 (type 1370 & 1371) L4J
AH58 with V2 inch
(12.7mm)reach .L57R
All other models .JllJ
Set electrode gap on L57R spark plugs
at 0.020 inch (0.51 mm). Electrode gap
should be 0.030 inch (0.76 mm) for all
other spark plugs.


----------



## peter92 (Oct 22, 2015)

ray benson said:


> Out of that Tecumseh service manual.
> SPARK PLUG. Recommended
> Champion spark plug numbers are
> shown in the following chart:
> ...


Thanks Ray, that could explain why the saw is popping when i try and set the H screw in


----------



## peter92 (Oct 22, 2015)

peter92 said:


> Thanks Ray, that could explain why the saw is popping when i try and set the H screw in


would it matter much if the timing was set to TDC instead of 4mm BTDC


----------



## 67L36Driver (Oct 23, 2015)

Yes. Late spark will lead to missing.

Twenty five degrees BTDC is where most saws run best. But, without a compression release would be problematic to start.

That is, you could wind up with finger and hand damage.

Note the 'D' handle. Pup will put the hurt on a fellow.


----------



## peter92 (Oct 23, 2015)

67L36Driver said:


> Yes. Late spark will lead to missing.
> 
> Twenty five degrees BTDC is where most saws run best. But, without a compression release would be problematic to start.
> 
> ...


What would be the best way to find 25 degree as i dont have any thing to messure that


----------



## MnSam (Mar 5, 2016)

I came across a decent Tecumseh AH81. I decided to mess with it today and quickly discovered no spark. The points look good but that is all that's there. I don't know where the coil/condenser go and what they even look like. What are my chances of finding some parts for this?


----------



## 67L36Driver (Aug 16, 2017)

Bump to the top.

Thanks Photobucket for effin up our thread.


----------



## brandonstc6 (Oct 5, 2017)

Guys, this may be a little off topic, but I picked up a motor from a Hoffco Whizz Witch weed eater. The shaft was bent and in bad shape, so I just got the motor. The motor seems to have compression, I’m not sure about spark yet. It is 85cc. What model of power products engine would it have? Also could it be used for anything a replacement for a chainsaw or maybe a kart motor? 
Thanks in advance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 5, 2017)

PP AH 480 it is I think.

Most likely drop in a lot of the old time saws. Watch rotation.

But they can be reversed.


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## brandonstc6 (Oct 5, 2017)

67L36Driver said:


> PP AH 480 it is I think.
> 
> Most likely drop in a lot of the old time saws. Watch rotation.
> 
> But they can be reversed.



Thanks, I didn’t think of checking those models. Acresinternet shows a AH 520 to be 84.5cc, so that must be it. I have only one saw with a pp engine and it has good compression and spark. Would this engine have any value? 


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## Shawn N. (Nov 5, 2017)

Is this an AH81 or AH47? Thank you.


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## pioneerguy600 (Nov 5, 2017)

Shawn N. said:


> Is this an AH81 or AH47? Thank you.



Model number?


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## Shawn N. (Nov 5, 2017)

pioneerguy600 said:


> Model number?


I can’t find a model number on it. The tag that I have seen on other saws on the lower right side is gone. Is there any other place I can look? Thanks


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## pioneerguy600 (Nov 6, 2017)

Shawn N. said:


> I can’t find a model number on it. The tag that I have seen on other saws on the lower right side is gone. Is there any other place I can look? Thanks



Not that I am aware of, those tags identified what engine size . You need to take the muffler off and use the straw through the exhaust port, mark with the piston and withdraw and measure the bore diameter.


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## heimannm (Nov 6, 2017)

It is not a 47, the shape of the flywheel cover is wrong. 







I don't think it is an 81 either, again the shape of the cover is different.







Maybe a 58 (5.1 In2)?

Mark


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## pioneerguy600 (Nov 6, 2017)

Shawn N. said:


> Is this an AH81 or AH47? Thank you.



This 5G 21 is an AH 81 version, the bore is 63.5 mm


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## Shawn N. (Nov 6, 2017)

pioneerguy600 said:


> This 5G 21 is an AH 81 version, the bore is 63.5 mm



Thank you for all the great information. I am going to measure the bore when I get home this weekend to confirm what I have. Is this saw worth much since its missing a few parts or is it worth more in parts?


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## pioneerguy600 (Nov 6, 2017)

If it truly is a AH 81 version it would be worth around $150. to a collector but they are about worthless as a saw to run and cut wood. Difficult to say what a good one would fetch on eBay on a good day but I have never seen them bring much over the $150. mark.


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## jerrycmorrow (Dec 20, 2017)

Got a ward branded mono SL 145 with a Lauson Power Products carb. Looking for a carb diagram cause the Stens rebuild kit gots pieces i wasnt expecting. Any help would be muchly appreciated. Heres the saw and carb


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## ray benson (Dec 21, 2017)

Looks very similar to the Tecumseh carb on page 2 of the attachment


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## Matt Hogden (Dec 21, 2017)

wigglesworth said:


> I have recently acquired a few Power Products powered saws. For some reason there is little to no info on the web about them, other than they were used in saws, karts, mowers and such. They are dead nuts simple engines, that make good power, but there seems to be a lack of interest in the general population of chainsaw idiots such as myself. Not real sure why though??
> 
> So, what models you got, and what info do you have on them?
> 
> So far I have acquired a Wards with an AH81 (131cc), a Mono with the AH58 (95cc) and a couple David Bradleys with the AH47 (77cc).


I have 2 Monos with the AH58

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## Den (Dec 21, 2017)

I have a Power Products Tecumseh Mono 2-16 listed in the trading post here on AS. It has the AH-47 engine. I thought it was locked up, but after putting a wrench on the sprocket nut I discovered it turns. It will be going on Ebay soon.


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## peter92 (Aug 24, 2018)

Heres my second mobilco Big 10 Ah81 131cc chainsaw in Australia
just wondering what is the longest bar i could put on it and would any one have part number of the bars please
i have the yellow tank but needs pulling apart and redoing as it leaks 

Peter


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## peter92 (Aug 24, 2018)

Heres an Advert from Australia about the MOBILCO SAW RANGE


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## sawnami (Aug 28, 2018)

A David Bradley, Mono, and Barker. All AH-81's.






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## peter92 (Oct 22, 2018)

Hi Guys , What saw has the AH82 engine 135cc 
Ive got one with AH81 130.7 cc
Chasing just an engine
Peter


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## ncrile (Apr 8, 2020)

Hello all!
Jumping in this dusty thread in search of info. I have an old Trams 3DT with a Power Products AH47 motor. I'm trying to source seals. they are unlike anything I've ever seen. They are all rubber (no metal frame) they are slightly conical on the inside and they have a minute wiper.

ID = 17mm or 43/64"
OD = 22mm or 55/64"
Thickness = 3mm or 1/8"

Is it a seal? square edged oring? Shaft wiper?
Does anyone know where to get them?
Any help would be great


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## 2broke2ride (Apr 8, 2020)

I found some a few years ago on ebay. Ley me see if I can come up with a part number. These are the ones that have a metal washer and snap ring holding them in, correct?

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## ncrile (Apr 8, 2020)

2broke2ride said:


> I found some a few years ago on ebay. Ley me see if I can come up with a part number. These are the ones that have a metal washer and snap ring holding them in, correct?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk




YES! exactly!


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## 2broke2ride (Apr 8, 2020)

510105 is the number I have. A quick ebay search came up with this. Kinda pricey, I was able to just buy the seals.








TECUMSEH OIL SEAL KIT 510105 GENUINE OEM closeout new old stock 510106A 510109A | eBay


(1) 510106A RETAINER. 1) 510109A RETAINER SPRING. 1) 510105 OIL SEAL. Tecumseh engineOil Seal Kit.



www.ebay.com









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## ncrile (Apr 8, 2020)

2broke2ride said:


> 510105 is the number I have. A quick ebay search came up with this. Kinda pricey, I was able to just buy the seals.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey, thank you 2 Broke2Ride! !!!!!!!

That's a big help! Thanks also for the ebay link, this old saw has already cost me an arm and a leg trying to get her going. I've never spent that much for seals. OUCH!

I could not find an IPL with the part numbers. Did you ever get yours installed? So much knowledge on this site!


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## 2broke2ride (Apr 8, 2020)

I replaced 1, the ones in the picture are the ones I have. I bought 3 at the time. I ended up having to take a dremel and grind a relief in the outer lip so I could get behind the snap ring with a pick.

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## ncrile (Apr 8, 2020)

2broke2ride said:


> I replaced 1, the ones in the picture are the ones I have. I bought 3 at the time. I ended up having to take a dremel and grind a relief in the outer lip so I could get behind the snap ring with a pick.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Great Idea! 

I sharpened an old nail punch and tapped it in. Yes, it damaged the washer. Live and learn.
I put an offer in on the Ebay listing. I feel all slimey and want to take a shower.


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## sawnami (Apr 9, 2020)

You can get much better deals if you take your time. I picked up two on eBay a few days ago.





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## ncrile (Apr 9, 2020)

sawnami said:


> You can get much better deals if you take your time. I picked up two on eBay a few days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I broke my cardinal rule on this one. FOMO got the best of me. I got a better deal than the original, but still not a good one. Thanks for the perspective. I can’t play the game if I can’t afford it. When I hear it from the Mrs, she can’t understand. It hits home to hear it from the folks here. But it is so true.
Be patient.


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## elioselectric (Sep 21, 2020)

Anyone know the part number for the AH47 1/16" thick piston rings, not the more common 3/32" like in the David Bradley saws. The thinner rings are in the Lombard L50, piston ported jug. 2 inch bore. Thanks


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 22, 2020)

Shop this EBay seller.






Security Measure







ebay.com





Shop his rings by bore x thickness & gap/end condition.

And, 1.5mm is close enuf to .062”.

[emoji106]

I bet 51mm x 1.5mm will work with a touch of end filing.


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## Kino B. (Jun 5, 2021)

Hello gentlemen, I recently acquired a Mono AH81 and I’m looking for a rebuild kit for this carb. Does anyone have a part # or source for this? Thank you!


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## ncrile (Jun 5, 2021)

Try discount marine parts. They sell carb kits for many OLD carbs.


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## ncrile (Jun 5, 2021)

You’ll have to identify the carb. Tillotson? The model will be stamped on the edge of the mounting flange.


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## Kino B. (Jun 5, 2021)

Hello ncrile I checked the carb again and there is no model stamped on the carb flange. I used a wire brush amno nothing showing up. Only the bottom plate stamped with Lauson Power Products. I thought I saw somewhere on this site someone needed the same carb kit but they found an HL66A. I’d prefer to find the kit for this instead of going to another carb. Thank you


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## 67L36Driver (Jun 5, 2021)

Power Products/Tecomseh used the same carb kit like forever.









Stens 631893a Carburetor Kit (520-312) for sale online | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Stens 631893a Carburetor Kit (520-312) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


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## sawnami (Jun 5, 2021)

It uses a pump element (the black rubber piece inserted into the carburetor flange). When they have a pump element, they usually have a check valve in the fuel inlet elbow. Don't use high air pressure on the elbow as it can damage the check valve. Use a 7/16" wrench to break loose the elbow then twist it out with a pair of pliers as it's a press fit. Use care in cleaning out the fitting. There's a good chance that the pump element will need to be replaced.

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## Kino B. (Jun 5, 2021)

Thank you guys. This is the check valve that you’re referring to?


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## sawnami (Jun 5, 2021)

Kino B. said:


> Thank you guys. This is the check valve that you’re referring to?


Yes.
Some also have a very fine screen that uses the surface tension of the fuel on it to act like check valve.






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## Kino B. (Jun 5, 2021)

Thank you very much for that info. I appreciate the support.


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## Kino B. (Jun 13, 2021)

sawnami said:


> A David Bradley, Mono, and Barker. All AH-81's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Sawnami, do you know approximately what year the orange David Bradley 81 is. Thank you!


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## 2broke2ride (Jun 13, 2021)

Kino B. said:


> Hello gentlemen, I recently acquired a Mono AH81 and I’m looking for a rebuild kit for this carb. Does anyone have a part # or source for this? Thank you!


This kit includes the fuel pump element. It is that red piece. 








Oregon 49-239 Tecumseh 631893A Carburetor Repair Kit 32488492398 | eBay


Replaces Tecumseh 631893A. Oregon carburetor repair kit fits many Tecumseh-built diaphragm carburetors.



www.ebay.com





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## sawnami (Jun 13, 2021)

Kino B. said:


> Hi Sawnami, do you know approximately what year the orange David Bradley 81 is. Thank you!


Hello.
The orange David Bradley is a 1957 model. 

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## Kino B. (Jun 13, 2021)

2broke2ride said:


> This kit includes the fuel pump element. It is that red piece.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you 2broke2ride. Member 67l36driver pointed me to the kit on eBay which should arrive soon. appreciate all yours support.


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## Kino B. (Jun 13, 2021)

2broke2ride said:


> This kit includes the fuel pump element. It is that red piece.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s a beauty, I like the curved edges of the blower housing which I don’t see as often on the AH81 engines.


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## Kino B. (Jun 27, 2021)

So I found out why there was no spark on the AH81. I’m gonna clean this up ano see if there‘s still resistance in the winding. I may need new parts for this. Any recommendations?

In the cavities of the flywheel, wasps or some types of bugs created a home. They had covered up the openings with a white type of clay/mud which was very hard to break out.

Thanks!


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## xl130 (Jun 27, 2021)

Most of the time a good cleaning of the points is usually all it takes to make the system work again. Hopefully you get lucky!


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## Kino B. (Jun 27, 2021)

Thank you XL130!


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