# What's the easiest way to trobleshoot for bad crank seal



## 028AV Super (Apr 30, 2007)

Hi everyone,
Quick background on the saw. I just went through my 028AV Super, replaced piston/ring for scoring, carb kit, all the rubber hoses, filters, muffler mod, and down sized to a 16" from 24". Got the saw running with no problems. One nagging problem is the saw bogging down under a load which I had prior to freshing up. Started out with 1 1/8 on low, and 1 on high which started after 4 pulls. Did WOT adjustment according to this site experts.

The saw starts easy but at times very hard. Sometimes pull cord locks up (painful when drop starting...). I did notice some rubbing marks on the flywheel with the mag pick-up (possible play in the crank from worn seals or bearing?). Didn't notice any excessive play on the flywheel side. Also noticed the carb spit-back quite a bit more than before. Jocking the throttle without load varies from nice quick transitions to bogging at times. I did rotate the saw 90 degree each way while running and didn't kill the saw. Without performing crank case vacuum/pressure test, is there any easier test. I've heard about spraying WD-40 behind the flywheel? I guess this means after you get the saw started, take the cover off the expose the flywheel? 

At this point, I was just thinking about replacing it anyway. I read about the knot on small rope trick to lock the cylinder to losen the flywheel nut (left hand threads). My concern is the clutch side where special puller is needed. Any recommandations on the tool issue? Any tips on getting the seal out without spliting the case (hoping for good bearings)?

Thanks for your inputs.


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## huskydave (Apr 30, 2007)

The easiest way to check for worn seals or vacuum leaks on any small engine is to spray carb cleaner around the crank or the carb boot if there is one.On a chainsaw this could be dangerous I would get someone to hold down the saw on a bench and at idle spray the carb cleaner in behind the flywheel. If the rpms rise you have bad seals.This is just one way of doing it others may have better advice.


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## 028AV Super (Apr 30, 2007)

huskydave said:


> The easiest way to check for worn seals or vacuum leaks on any small engine is to spray carb cleaner around the crank or the carb boot if there is one.On a chainsaw this could be dangerous I would get someone to hold down the saw on a bench and at idle spray the carb cleaner in behind the flywheel. If the rpms rise you have bad seals.This is just one way of doing it others may have better advice.



Thanks Dave!


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## troutfisher (Apr 30, 2007)

I have heard that you can fill the crankcase with transmission fluid, and watch for leaks around the crank seals. I have never tried this, but it sounded good.


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## West Texas (Apr 30, 2007)

I've only had to replace a seal once, and how I detected it as a problem was to start the saw, let it warm up and idle a while; then turn the saw on its side and listen to the engine speed. If there is a difference in the engine when you turn it on either side, I was told its an indication that the seals are bad. In my case, that is exactly what happened; there was a noticeable difference in the engine when I turned it on one side. I replaced the seal and it has run great ever since. Getting the old seal out is the neat trick; putting the new one in was a piece of cake.


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## Hard Knocks (Apr 30, 2007)

You might want to pull the flywheel and check the flywheel key. I have seen flywheel keys shear and knock the timing out just enough to make the saw act up. some of the symptoms can be kickback/lockup when pulling it over, and spitting back through the carburetor.


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## Lakeside53 (Apr 30, 2007)

Lots of ideas above, and not trying to stifle suggestion but... a couple of point from the above posts 

- Flywheel keys don't tend to shear in this type of saw. They are hard tool steel on a long taper crank stub.

- No special tool is required to remove the clutch on an 028 - it's the flywheel side that requires a puller. The flywheel side nut is NORMAL thread.

- spraying carb cleaner around seals is almost impossible and real dangerous... never mind the mechanical difficulties of getting it to the correct place behind the flywheel, but the risk of fire is very real. Also, it will tend to kill a saw (richens), not raise the rpms. 028's are much more likely to have a bad clutch side seal anyhow.. and you can't even get close to that unless you run the saw without a clutch.

- filling the crank case with fluid wont do anything unless you have a complete seal failure, and in which case it real obvious - the saw will not start or if it does, wont idle. Seals are often great on pressure, but just fail under vacuum. So far you description of problems doesn't sound like seals. 


Back to the question at hand... The most obvious indicator of a seal leak (not a seal failure) is inconsistent idle and difficulty starting. If the carb needles are more than a 1/4 turn away from standard setings to the rich side, then you are likely compensating for an air leak somewhere.


You don't have to split the case to replace the seals, but they can be tricky to get out without the correct seal pulling tool, particularly on the flywheel side. Insertion is easy - grease the lips, and use the correct size socket to tap them in. The clutch side has a shoulder that will require you to either use wraps of foil to allow the seals to side on the crank without popping the spring, on or a crank sleeve tool.


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## stihltech (Apr 30, 2007)

*ok, here we go.........*

Number one, Lakeside is correct on all accounts. This is the only correct way to check seals, pressure and vacuum test.

Being a little backyard, and looking for a quick diagnosis, WD40 and a long straw works best. I only do this on a saw that appears to be not worth the time to diagnose or repair, or if the customer really wants a new saw. I never tell the customer he is wrong, in this instance.:greenchainsaw: 

And yes, it will either get rich, or stop.


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## 028AV Super (May 1, 2007)

Wow, good tips from everyone! Thanks, 
I'll tear in to it once I get a set of seals. I'm going to try a harmonic balancer puller on the flywheel. I guess I would have to see it how both side comes out during the disassembly. I remember reading on the forum about blue (Stihl) color seals are better than black (after market)? 

Can anyone tell me the cost of Stihl special tools for this job? How about a suitable sub from common tool box?

Either way, the crank seals replacement are the only thing left on my saw to change.

Again, thanks for all your help!


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## 028AV Super (May 1, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> Lots of ideas above, and not trying to stifle suggestion but... a couple of point from the above posts
> 
> - Flywheel keys don't tend to shear in this type of saw. They are hard tool steel on a long taper crank stub.
> 
> ...



Thanks Andy,
Have you seen any bad crank roller-ball bearings on these saws? Will a bad crank oil seal on the flywheel side cause radial play during starter rope pulling to cause flywheel to contact the mag pick-up? I set the clearance last year with a matchbook on both blocks on the wheel.


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## Lakeside53 (May 1, 2007)

028AV Super said:


> Wow, good tips from everyone! Thanks,
> I'll tear in to it once I get a set of seals. I'm going to try a harmonic balancer puller on the flywheel. I guess I would have to see it how both side comes out during the disassembly. I remember reading on the forum about blue (Stihl) color seals are better than black (after market)?
> 
> Can anyone tell me the cost of Stihl special tools for this job? How about a suitable sub from common tool box?
> ...




Take your saw to your stihl dealer and have them pop the flywheel - it's a 10 second job if you have it prep'ed. Using any other type of puller runs the very real risk of damaging your flywheel. 


Flywheel puller is about $20 in Ebay stores. Maybe cheaper from your dealer. The seal puller is damn expensive... Like $125-140...


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## Lakeside53 (May 1, 2007)

028AV Super said:


> Thanks Andy,
> Have you seen any bad crank roller-ball bearings on these saws? Will a bad crank oil seal on the flywheel side cause radial play during starter rope pulling to cause flywheel to contact the mag pick-up? I set the clearance last year with a matchbook on both blocks on the wheel.





Bad bearings are rare in 028's, but they happen.

It would have to be really bad... and if it is moving it's most likely the CLUTCH side that's shot causing the flywheel side to pivot in the flywheel side bearing. Your coil might have moved - you're supposed to use blue loctite on the coil screws.


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## MS-310 (May 1, 2007)

Could you run the saw without the clutch on to check with carb clean?


I got the crank seal for my 088 today and I got it all tore down to put it in!!!!
the seal that is in it, is new........SO thats why I want to check it.....sorry to ask my ???? in your post


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## Lakeside53 (May 1, 2007)

I would never put carb cleaner on a seal. WD40, yes, but carb cleaner.. no...

Yes, you can run it without a clutch, but... carefully, and I don't bother. If it went in fine and you greased the lips first, it will work. You'll know on starting if it's bad anyhow... use a torque wrench to put your clutch back on.

Two things

- Make sure you inserted the seal so it was just level with the top of the bearing. If it's too deep it will rub on the center hub and burn up or wear out.

- Visually inspect the seal with a magnifier - make sure the center is not puckered up or irregular in any way. If it did push up when you tried to insert it, the spring on the back may have rolled off. Such fun...


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## manual (May 1, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> Take your saw to your stihl dealer and have them pop the flywheel - it's a 10 second job if you have it prep'ed. Using any other type of puller runs the very real risk of damaging your flywheel.
> 
> 
> Flywheel puller is about $20 in Ebay stores. Maybe cheaper from your dealer. The seal puller is damn expensive... Like $125-140...



I just made a fly wheel puller, Not bad eh.






could you take some pics of the seal puller ?


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## Lakeside53 (May 1, 2007)

Nice.. Now make a set for stihls :biggrinbounce2: 


Here's the seal puller... reverseable jaws for 6 sizes, plus the little white plastic jaws for 200T seals. Technique sensitive, but works great.



















Just for interest, what does Husky or Dolmar supply or recommend?


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## manual (May 2, 2007)

Hmmmm,Thats do able what is the width of that ? hinge pin to hinge pin ?
I don't know what husky sells.
I just ordered the oil pump gear puller for the 262's cost just under 10 bucks.
and thats just the part you screw on the gear that is pressed on the shaft.
I am still waiting for it to come in.
What I have been doing is drilling two holes in the seal using a magnet to keep the shavings out and then I made a small slide hammer to pull the seals out.


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## 04ultra (May 2, 2007)

Andy some guy just bought a stihl puller like yours and mine on sleezebay for mid 200.00's used..... 



.


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## manual (May 2, 2007)

Wasn't me. LOL


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## 028AV Super (May 2, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> Take your saw to your stihl dealer and have them pop the flywheel - it's a 10 second job if you have it prep'ed. Using any other type of puller runs the very real risk of damaging your flywheel.
> 
> 
> Flywheel puller is about $20 in Ebay stores. Maybe cheaper from your dealer. The seal puller is damn expensive... Like $125-140...



Once again Dave, you are the man! Thanks,


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## 028AV Super (May 2, 2007)

028AV Super said:


> Once again Dave, you are the man! Thanks,



Oooops sorry, I mean Andy. Too much multi tasking...


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## 028AV Super (May 2, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> Bad bearings are rare in 028's, but they happen.
> 
> It would have to be really bad... and if it is moving it's most likely the CLUTCH side that's shot causing the flywheel side to pivot in the flywheel side bearing. Your coil might have moved - you're supposed to use blue loctite on the coil screws.



I'll check the torque on it. And I didn't use any thread lockers...


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## 028AV Super (May 2, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> Take your saw to your stihl dealer and have them pop the flywheel - it's a 10 second job if you have it prep'ed. Using any other type of puller runs the very real risk of damaging your flywheel.
> 
> 
> Flywheel puller is about $20 in Ebay stores. Maybe cheaper from your dealer. The seal puller is damn expensive... Like $125-140...



Andy,
- Would it be easier to split the case after flywheel removal than knock out the crank oil seal from the inside? Or not worth it because of gasket set requirement and possibility of damage to other parts. 

- I guess tearing it down and trip to local Stihl shop to pull the flywheel and have the crank oil seals removed. I'll try it and see what reaction I get from the mechanic. Couple of weeks ago I went to the newly opened sub-branch Stihl/Kobota/Honda/Cub Cadet shop to buy a 16" bar and couple of chains (didn't want to drive 45min to Madsen's).

- I didn't feel warm and fuzzy from the conversation when I started asking about the problems I had with the saw to include all the maintenance I performed on the saw (i.e. piston change, carb kit, filters, hoses, muffler mod, lube, etc.). The shop mechanic was very young (not saying his a bad mechanic) and two high schoolers manning the desk with no saw knowledge and they were pushing yearly maintenance check pretty hard even after I told them all the stuff I done and repeatedly stated minimum hourly charge for any work however small it was. Maybe they were having a bad day...


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## Lakeside53 (May 2, 2007)

I sure wouldn't split the case to push out the seals... you need a whole lot more specialized tools and time to do that...


One of the "secrets" to getting a seal out is to free it up before pulling on it - just use a small flat tip punch to tap it in SLIGHTLY on 4 corners, then pull.

Drive it up to me.. I'll do them for you.. for beer (O.K., Space will think that's unethical, but...)..


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## Lakeside53 (May 2, 2007)

04ultra said:


> Andy some guy just bought a stihl puller like yours and mine on sleezebay for mid 200.00's used.....
> 
> 
> 
> .




I'd sell mine for that  


There has to be something like this for working on bike's outboard engines etc... Husky, Echo and Dolmar must have something similar...


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## 04ultra (May 2, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> I'd sell mine for that





I paid 95.00 new for mine....   



.


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## Lakeside53 (May 2, 2007)

"I" paid a lot more  

A few years ago my good friend was looking for things for my wife to buy me for a birthday present. I was muttering about a "real seal puller" - she went to a stihl dealer and bought one - marked up beyond belief... oh well... better than some useless gift I couldn't drink.


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## manual (May 2, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> "I" paid a lot more
> 
> A few years ago my good friend was looking for things for my wife to buy me for a birthday present. I was muttering about a "real seal puller" - she went to a stihl dealer and bought one - marked up beyond belief... oh well... better than some useless gift I couldn't drink.



Hmmmm, 
Would it be unethical to use a gift to make money with ?


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## 04ultra (May 2, 2007)

manual said:


> Hmmmm,
> Would it be unethical to use a gift to make money with ?




No....................  




.


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## Lakeside53 (May 2, 2007)

manual said:


> Hmmmm,
> Would it be unethical to use a gift to make money with ?



only if you "re-gift"... (which I have done...)


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## 028AV Super (May 3, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> I sure wouldn't split the case to push out the seals... you need a whole lot more specialized tools and time to do that...
> 
> 
> One of the "secrets" to getting a seal out is to free it up before pulling on it - just use a small flat tip punch to tap it in SLIGHTLY on 4 corners, then pull.
> ...



Gee, I guess you really have to committed to buy those special tools made out of titanium, platinum, and little bit of cobalt! For the cost of those two tools I can buy a new hot Stihl! Or I can open a chainsaw maintenance shop out of my garage...

I'll try it out the secret tip and let you know. I'll PM you if I need to make a trip to Woodenville with some refreashments made from barley, hops, yeast. Thanks Andy,


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## Fish (May 3, 2007)

I wonder if crank seals are your problem. I would suggest maybe stepping
back and starting over with what you have done so far.

I am wondering about the times when it is hard to start, and jerking the
rope out of your hand, spitback, etc.

When you rebuilt the saw, you used an aftermarket piston/cyl?

Just go back over with what you have done before, with some detail,
and these guys may come up with some other ideas.

When you went through the carb, what did you find? Did you use the 
full rebuild kit?

My point is, maybe you have jumped to the seal idea as your problem,
and jumped over the real trouble, just a thought.


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## 028AV Super (May 4, 2007)

Fish said:


> I wonder if crank seals are your problem. I would suggest maybe stepping
> back and starting over with what you have done so far.
> 
> I am wondering about the times when it is hard to start, and jerking the
> ...



Very good point!
Being that this was my first saw coupled with lack of experience, I've been relaying on the words from this forum. So, you are right I didn't use a systematic troubleshooting, or fault isolation procedures. I have been in aviation/jet engine maintenance for over 26 years now and end up reverting to backyard mechanic rule of thumb "Change one part a time till fixed". I did use some common sense and educated approach using tips, and recommendations from this forum. I guess I didn't want to invest for tech manuals, special tools, or pay Stihl technician prevailing wages. Like most DIY guys, I didn't want to spend $250 for Sthil cylinder/piston set-up, didn't want to get fat bill from Stihl shop, and did't want to spend $500 for a new saw. 

As for the carb kit, I did do a full kit and old diaphragm was in bad shape (very weak, whole much of crud). The piston was changed using the Golf piston/ring/pin kit. I thought those crank seals could be the culprit and 25+ years old saw can use a new set either way.

The hard to start, jerking ropes, and spit backs issues were intermittent problems from the past 4 years. Basically, it comes and goes. The last straw was the power issues (engine bogging down cutting 15" Doug Fir) that prompted me to go in to saw. Yea, I guess I can get it pressure/vacuum test for the crank case and compression test as well. I thought the odds of oil seal being bad/worn were pretty high, then if problem persisted, I was going to have all these air test done. What do you think?:bang:


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## Fish (May 4, 2007)

Since you are in a technical/mechanical field, then you should have
easy access to a mighty vac, or some other pressure/vac gauges, then a leakdown test is quite easy. A piece of rubber between the muffler and 
block, a $.25 cork in the intake boot, and air/vac applied to the impulse hose/nipple, with the spark plug in, see if it holds pressure or a vacuum.


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## 028AV Super (May 4, 2007)

Fish said:


> Since you are in a technical/mechanical field, then you should have
> easy access to a mighty vac, or some other pressure/vac gauges, then a leakdown test is quite easy. A piece of rubber between the muffler and
> block, a $.25 cork in the intake boot, and air/vac applied to the impulse hose/nipple, with the spark plug in, see if it holds pressure or a vacuum.



Hey Fishman,
Just got done stripping it down. Upon closer look on flywheel side, I notice that the flywheel has quite a bit a radial play (1/16-1/8"). I mentioned on earlier thread noticing rubbing on the flywheel with mag pick-up. Well, I can duplicated by hand. Is the play comming from failed crank oil seal or crank bearing on the clutch side gone bad? I'm taking it to the saw shop today to have the components removed that required special tools. I found a small Mom and Pop Shindawa dealer in town. I'm hoping they'll work with me and don't hurt my wallet too much. Thanks for your input Fish!:monkey:


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## Lakeside53 (May 4, 2007)

1/16" to 1/8"?? Wow.. a few thou would be bad.. that's a really bad bearing. You might want to consider finding a good used crankcase ($50..??) rather than fixing it at a shop. You'll need to split the case, both bearings (one will damage the other), seals, some tools and a bunch of time, and... the crank may have excessive run-out from thrashing around with a bad bearing.


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## 028AV Super (May 7, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> 1/16" to 1/8"?? Wow.. a few thou would be bad.. that's a really bad bearing. You might want to consider finding a good used crankcase ($50..??) rather than fixing it at a shop. You'll need to split the case, both bearings (one will damage the other), seals, some tools and a bunch of time, and... the crank may have excessive run-out from thrashing around with a bad bearing.



Hi Andy,
Gee, you bring all the good new! Yea bad crank bearings for sure! Just the magnetics is pulling over the flywheel! Do you think taking it down to Madsen's would hurt the pocket too bad? I've heard that they have a flat rate on it (I'll call them this morning). Andy, What are the odds that crankcase is reusable? Hoping the bearings didn't spun in the case. What have you seen in the past? Did find many loaded (crank/rod/bearings/seals) crank case on ebay for pretty good price $50-75 (I think). I guess this would be easiest approch and just swap everything over.


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## 028AV Super (May 7, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> 1/16" to 1/8"?? Wow.. a few thou would be bad.. that's a really bad bearing. You might want to consider finding a good used crankcase ($50..??) rather than fixing it at a shop. You'll need to split the case, both bearings (one will damage the other), seals, some tools and a bunch of time, and... the crank may have excessive run-out from thrashing around with a bad bearing.



Hey Andy,
Did you ever deal with ebay seller "cheapstihlparts" out of Everett? He has few 028 crank cases for sale. One question, are all the 028 (WB, AV Super, AV) crank cases all same? The reason I ask is that I know there were 3 different piston sizes (42, 44, and 46mm). Thanks,


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## Lakeside53 (May 7, 2007)

028AV Super said:


> Hey Andy,
> Did you ever deal with ebay seller "cheapstihlparts" out of Everett? He has few 028 crank cases for sale. One question, are all the 028 (WB, AV Super, AV) crank cases all same? The reason I ask is that I know there were 3 different piston sizes (42, 44, and 46mm). Thanks,



All the time. I go up there regualrly...

The crankcases differ, and it depend on exactly which "WB" you are refering to. They basicly fall into two types - those with a chain brake and those without. The piston size is less important as the cylinder rmount is the same. I'm pretty the the AV and Super are the same crankcase, and SOME WB will work.


If you buy a used crankcase, I'd replace the seals anyhow, but that's just me.


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## Lakeside53 (May 7, 2007)

028AV Super said:


> Hi Andy,
> Gee, you bring all the good new! Yea bad crank bearings for sure! Just the magnetics is pulling over the flywheel! Do you think taking it down to Madsen's would hurt the pocket too bad? I've heard that they have a flat rate on it (I'll call them this morning). Andy, What are the odds that crankcase is reusable? Hoping the bearings didn't spun in the case. What have you seen in the past? Did find many loaded (crank/rod/bearings/seals) crank case on ebay for pretty good price $50-75 (I think). I guess this would be easiest approch and just swap everything over.




You might be shocked when you see Madsens quote... Quite a bit of time and materials.. but.. try them.

The case side pairs are generally reuseable. Unless you have the tools and parts on hand, it's always easier to just get another crankcase on these old saws.


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## manual (May 7, 2007)

Talking about crank seals, heres how to get to the crank seal on some Huskys. this is the clutch side.






After removing the clutch assy. Insert two screws in threaded holes in oil pump, screw in equality until pump is loose then pull off by hand.







Now you MUST use a oil pump drive puller to remove the drive or you will chip and destroy the drive.


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## 04ultra (May 7, 2007)

Manual....You should have done a 3120...... Really hard to do..    




Seal mounts in the oiler









.


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## manual (May 7, 2007)

That would be nice, Husky changed there pump drive on the newer saws so you don't have to use a puller.


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## 028AV Super (May 8, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> All the time. I go up there regualrly...
> 
> The crankcases differ, and it depend on exactly which "WB" you are refering to. They basicly fall into two types - those with a chain brake and those without. The piston size is less important as the cylinder rmount is the same. I'm pretty the the AV and Super are the same crankcase, and SOME WB will work.
> 
> ...



Andy,
Talk to the seller, and is the correct one(w/brake). Planning to go up Friday. And yea, I do have set of oil seal I bought prior to finding this bad bearing. Thanks,


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## 028AV Super (May 8, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> You might be shocked when you see Madsens quote... Quite a bit of time and materials.. but.. try them.
> 
> The case side pairs are generally reuseable. Unless you have the tools and parts on hand, it's always easier to just get another crankcase on these old saws.



Madsens quote was painful. Basically, 3 hours+parts. The tech said, he seen simple bearing change to damaged cranks, spun bearing (bad case). So, not knowing until the full teardown, a well used case is a better approch (like you said). Thanks,


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## Lakeside53 (May 8, 2007)

If you swing by here on the eay back if you like. I'll be home Friday. Not far off your track.


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## manual (May 8, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> If you buy a used crankcase, I'd replace the seals anyhow, but that's just me.



Yep and if your modding a saw with hours on it, better to change the seals.

Here is the fly wheel side of this Husky's seal removal.
Pull the fly and remove three screws remove cover and your in.
Don't forget to replace the o-ring.


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## Lakeside53 (May 8, 2007)

That's easy! Nice pics.


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## 028AV Super (May 9, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> If you swing by here on the eay back if you like. I'll be home Friday. Not far off your track.



I'll PM you. Thanks,


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## 028AV Super (May 9, 2007)

manual said:


> Yep and if your modding a saw with hours on it, better to change the seals.
> 
> Here is the fly wheel side of this Husky's seal removal.
> Pull the fly and remove three screws remove cover and your in.
> Don't forget to replace the o-ring.



Wow, nice pics. Looks like you have pro saw shop. By chance do you have similar pics on Stihl saws? I have pretty old 028AV Super (25 years old) that I'm trying to resue. Thanks,


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## manual (May 9, 2007)

Thanks I'm Rebuilding a saw for some one else right now.
I seen this thread and thought I would put some post on seal removal on some Huskys.
Thought maybe Lakeside would match me in the Stihl areaopcorn: , I did see some posting if his on a 056 rebuild that might help you.
I would like to see you finish your saw. did you get your seals out to see if your play is in the bearings or case damage ?


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## 028AV Super (May 10, 2007)

manual said:


> Thanks I'm Rebuilding a saw for some one else right now.
> I seen this thread and thought I would put some post on seal removal on some Huskys.
> Thought maybe Lakeside would match me in the Stihl areaopcorn: , I did see some posting if his on a 056 rebuild that might help you.
> I would like to see you finish your saw. did you get your seals out to see if your play is in the bearings or case damage ?



I picking up a used built up case then heading over to Lakeside's (Andy) place and swap over everything. I hope case isn't damaged (hoping for a good core). I'll take some pics and post it. I need to cut while the weather is good. Thanks,


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## 028AV Super (May 17, 2007)

Well, nice used crank case (short block) was what the doctor ordered. I don't think it would have been easy without "Lakeside Andy" help. After swap-over, I had to wait 4 days for $1.35 oil pump gasket. Installed it and saw is FMC (Full Mission Capable) status, that's USAF lingo. Spent half of day cutting and made whole lot of curly fries and I mean curly fries (never made it with this saw before)! I'm little sore but it feels Good. The saw sounds and cuts like a dream! It never ran this good! I suspect bearing were going out 4 years ago when I bought it. Sorry, no pics. While I was on parts run, he had the swap all done! Anyways, Kudos for Lakeside Andy. He breathes, eats, sleeps, drinks chain saw! 

Thanks Andy!


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## Lakeside53 (May 17, 2007)

NO.. I drink great local microbrewery beer!


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## RiverRat2 (May 17, 2007)

*+1*



Lakeside53 said:


> NO.. I drink great local microbrewery beer!




That would be correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! about tha brewskies..... and He does know a bit about tha saws Ehhh???? LOL

Oh yeah,,,, you had to get the clutch removed cause previous owner had not torqued it properly and it over tightened pretty bad,,,,,,

Glad to hear its cutting well for you,,, It was good meeting you too!!!!!!!!


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## 028AV Super (May 18, 2007)

RiverRat2 said:


> That would be correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! about tha brewskies..... and He does know a bit about tha saws Ehhh???? LOL
> 
> Oh yeah,,,, you had to get the clutch removed cause previous owner had not torqued it properly and it over tightened pretty bad,,,,,,
> 
> Glad to hear its cutting well for you,,, It was good meeting you too!!!!!!!!



Hey RiverRat,:chainsawguy: 
It was good meeting you, no matter what I've heard about people from Big Texsas(LOL). Hope you had fun at Squim. I was thinking about entering my Twin-Turbo SuperSport 028 AV Super, Limited Edition with Chambered exhaust mod from 1975 Yamaha YZ500 (LOL), but a $1.35 oil pump gasket sent me to the pits. Oh yea, how your Dragon Slayer running? It sounded really good at Andy's place (sounds like a dirt bike!). Your saw must have pass the smell test at SeaTac with flying colors! I figure some minor carb adjustment was required with all that Texsas Mesquite BBQ smoke in the air. You should post the test log cut MPEG video. This should start a pretty good thread picking you apart(LOL). See Ya,


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## 028AV Super (May 18, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> NO.. I drink great local microbrewery beer!



 Oooops,
I stand corrected! Good choice on the beer! I didn't get hungry for long time.


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## Lakeside53 (May 18, 2007)

Beer IS food!

Do we look hungry at all? heck, I'm even trying to drink from the 028 crankcase.


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## manual (May 18, 2007)

How come your the only one dirty ? You are a good host.


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## 028AV Super (May 19, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> Beer IS food!
> 
> Do we look hungry at all? heck, I'm even trying to drink from the 028 crankcase.



What a happy looking bunch! I concur, what a nice Host. Andy (host on far right) gives me a cold beer and between RiverRat2 "Don't Mess With Texas" (far left) did all work for me  Really, bunch of nice guys, it's refreshing to see this day and age. I wonder if these guys do windows too (LOL)! With recent addition of 16" Rollermatic Bar and a new RSC chain, I now know why everyone wants one. Lately though, I've been fighting off a urge to get a full-time bucking saw with some HP. Before you know it, I'll have different saw for each day of the MONTH like Andy!
Again, Thanks Andy... The saw is kicking serious A$$!


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## 028AV Super (Jun 4, 2007)

*Cutting Video*

 Well, here it is.
I know, I know, the up-cut looks less than ideal. Up cutting 15 3/4" Fir with 16" Bar was challenging as the dog would hang up. Trying to look alike a pro... Anyway, I have ran 3 tanks so far, and seems to be getting stronger. I'm going to try my old 25" bar and see how it does. Only problem so far has been the nose sprocket binding up on the new 16" Rollermatic E. I had to take the chain off to unbind it. I don't know if some wood chip are getting in there or something is dragging. I did use to plunge cut a large Alder base. Any tips for this problem? 

Also, any tp on how to load a video clip better than a Zip/MOV format?


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## newguy18 (Jun 4, 2007)

*advice for tear down*



028AV Super said:


> Wow, good tips from everyone! Thanks,
> I'll tear in to it once I get a set of seals. I'm going to try a harmonic balancer puller on the flywheel. I guess I would have to see it how both side comes out during the disassembly. I remember reading on the forum about blue (Stihl) color seals are better than black (after market)?
> 
> Can anyone tell me the cost of Stihl special tools for this job? How about a suitable sub from common tool box?
> ...



if you havent tore it down yet i never boght a tool for removing a fly wheel.i dont care what any one else says when you pull the starter cover jam a screwdriver between flywheel and coil pack and loosen the fly wheel.then take a large heavy screwdriver and pull one side of the fly wheel after you pull one side turn fly wheel 1/4 turn and repeat until fly wheel pops loose.as for the clutch tak a 5/32 punch and view the clutch find the off side.take a hammer and tap punch until clutch loosens.if you tap to hard you will break the clutch.then you can view the seals and usually determine if they need replacing.if you have any questions pm me and i will help. bill howe.


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## 028AV Super (Jun 4, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> if you havent tore it down yet i never boght a tool for removing a fly wheel.i dont care what any one else says when you pull the starter cover jam a screwdriver between flywheel and coil pack and loosen the fly wheel.then take a large heavy screwdriver and pull one side of the fly wheel after you pull one side turn fly wheel 1/4 turn and repeat until fly wheel pops loose.as for the clutch tak a 5/32 punch and view the clutch find the off side.take a hammer and tap punch until clutch loosens.if you tap to hard you will break the clutch.then you can view the seals and usually determine if they need replacing.if you have any questions pm me and i will help. bill howe.



Thanks for the tip Bill,
Yea got the saw finished last month with help from Stihl gurus. One thing though, the flywheel nut was so tight that I had to run it down to Stihl shop to have the nut loosen. They broke their anti-rotation tool (connecting rod block) during the process. They ended up increasing the psi on their impact wrench and wedging a pry bar in the crank case to break it loose.


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## Lakeside53 (Jun 4, 2007)

err.. 028S.. you mean the clutch side. And for the audience - the crank was toast and all we we're trying to do was get the clutch off to use on another crankcase- hence the brute-force methods.

Prying the flywheel off is a great way to break something.


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## 028AV Super (Jun 4, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> Good way to break a lot of things...



Hi Andy,
What do you think about video clip?


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## Lakeside53 (Jun 4, 2007)

My system won't play it.. not sure what's going on..


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## RiverRat2 (Jun 4, 2007)

*+1*



Lakeside53 said:


> err.. 028S.. you mean the clutch side. and for the audience - the crank was toast and all we we're trying to do was get the clutch off to use on another crankcase- hence the brute-force methods.
> 
> Prying the flywheel off is a great way to break something.




:monkey: :monkey: :monkey:


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## 028AV Super (Jun 5, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> err.. 028S.. you mean the clutch side. And for the audience - the crank was toast and all we we're trying to do was get the clutch off to use on another crankcase- hence the brute-force methods.
> 
> Prying the flywheel off is a great way to break something.




Oooops, what Andy said the clutch side!


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## 028AV Super (Jun 5, 2007)

Lakeside53 said:


> My system won't play it.. not sure what's going on..



Used my digital cam via .MOV format w/sound (uses Quicktime) and Zipped it due to file size then attached it. Any suggestions?


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## 028AV Super (Jun 5, 2007)

RiverRat2 said:


> :monkey: :monkey: :monkey:



Hi RiverRat!
Any luck on video playback?


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## beelsr (Jun 5, 2007)

028AV Super said:


> Used my digital cam via .MOV format w/sound (uses Quicktime) and Zipped it due to file size then attached it. Any suggestions?



The zip file is 1.6 MB in size but when you view the file inside, it thinks it's 43MB. yeah, forty-three. Obviously, there's a problem at your end....


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## BILLSMOWERS (Mar 1, 2012)

lakeside53 said:


> nice.. Now make a set for stihls :biggrinbounce2:
> 
> 
> Here's the seal puller... Reverseable jaws for 6 sizes, plus the little white plastic jaws for 200t seals. Technique sensitive, but works great.
> ...



hi andy what is the p/n for the plastic jaws for the 200t?

Bill


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