# Finding Quality Employees



## urbanlt

One of the major problems my company has is finding good employees. I was wondering 

1. If anyone has tried anything besides advertising on Craigslist or in the local paper to find good help. 

2. How you guys create loyalty in your guys so that they stay and don't leave for the next so called better deal or start their own tree services. 

I put ads in the paper and all I get are the guys who have washed out of everywhere else. And when I hire one of those wash out guys I can't rely on them staying long. I have also carried guys through the winer and had them leave to do their own work as soon as the season hits. 

We offer:

Competitive Wages
100% paid Health Insurance after 3 mo.
401K with employer match after 6mo.
2 weeks paid vaca after 1 year
Quarterly bonuses between $0-one weeks pay based on performance
Optional unlimited overtime at time and a half

We require:

A driver License
ISA Cert


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## lxt

whats your starting wage? 

Try this I did!! Go to your local highschools & talk to the guidance counselor(s) about a career day, many schools already have this in their ciriculum, I hired some decent guys for the summer, wasnt their bag but they worked good, showed up all in all a good exp. I will do it again this year it enlightens some into trying the field & sooner or later I figure Ill find someone.

Problem with some companies is the requirements, CDL, ISA, Applicators License, x number yrs exp., etc... we are one of the few trades that wants all employees to have these credentials, but it is usually not reflected in the wage offered!!

all I can say is money, money money!!! pay em good they`ll stay, be an azz to em & pay em chit their gone!!! Good Luck.

LXT................


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## urbanlt

*Starting Wage*

I don't think it has to do with paying them chit. I think most of these guys don't think about their future they are just thinking about right now. 

Grounds person no experience $10-$12 per hour
Grounds persons 1 year experience can run ropes $12-$14
Climber in training $15-$17
Climber with 1-2 years experience $15-$18 depending on speed and pruning techn. 
ISA Cert climber $18-$25 depending on skill level different kinds of training and ability to lead a crew effectively
Consulting Arborists with ISA and ASCA cert $25-$32


I like your Idea about the High School kids. I have some really good guys right now who were inexperienced when I hired them. I have never trained and employee to climb for fear of mucking up my workmen’s comp but I am considering it now with these guys. 

I have had an employment ad in the paper for a year straight and have not had one arborist who made it longer then 6 months. I have fired about 10 guys this year so far mostly for not showing up on a regular basis.


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## clearance

urbanlt said:


> I don't think it has to do with paying them chit. I think most of these guys don't think about their future they are just thinking about right now.
> 
> Grounds person no experience $10-$12 per hour
> Grounds persons 1 year experience can run ropes $12-$14
> Climber in training $15-$17
> Climber with 1-2 years experience $15-$18 depending on speed and pruning techn.
> ISA Cert climber $18-$25 depending on skill level different kinds of training and ability to lead a crew effectively
> Consulting Arborists with ISA and ASCA cert $25-$32
> 
> 
> I like your Idea about the High School kids. I have some really good guys right now who were inexperienced when I hired them. I have never trained and employee to climb for fear of mucking up my workmen’s comp but I am considering it now with these guys.
> 
> I have had an employment ad in the paper for a year straight and have not had one arborist who made it longer then 6 months. I have fired about 10 guys this year so far mostly for not showing up on a regular basis.


Perhaps you could pay according to what people produce, for example, groundsmen, they are not all the same, some are culls and should be down the road, others are just awesome. A good groundsman is the key to treework. Now you say you have never trained an employee to climb before but now you are thinking of it, hence the $15-$17 range. A beginning climber does not produce profit like a good groundsman, yet you are willing to pay him more. Thats fine if he sticks around, but if he's gone, you have eaten the loss. As far as the conslutants being paid $25-$32, crazy, take a little of thier wage and give it to the guys who actually do the work.


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## urbanlt

A consultant is worth their weight in Gold on a large commercial job or a government job you need them their to present to boards, speak to the public and to the media. You can not cut down a tree in Portland with out their being a public outcry. 

I think I would only train an already good grounds person to be a climber so I think they should get more for going out of their comfort zone and making an effort to learn new skills. 

Do you think I should keep them at ground person wages while they train?

I don't think I have had a grounds person that was worth more then $14. What do you pay your grounds persons? What do you think my very good grounds people are worth considering what I pay my climbers? Have you ever trained a climber?


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## clearance

Some groundsmen in B.C. get paid $12-$14 an hour, some get more, like $22, in the bush windfirming it is $175 for a 61/2 hour day. You only think your groundsmen are woth $14 at the most? Either they are not that good or you do not value them that much. Yes I have trained climbers, to work around power. Its sad you need a p.r. mouthpiece to cut down trees down, its getting more and more like that here. At least doing utility, the municipal or city guys have little say, which is a good thing.

It bothers me that you refer to guys as "washouts", what exactly do you mean by that? I work hard at every job I have ever done, I have quit many jobs, a year at one is a long time for me. Many reasons, I get pizzed off, bored, I move, something better comes along. The way I see it, all the bouncing around I have done has given me more experience of work, people and this province. Not that there is anything wrong with working at the same place for your whole career, each to his own.


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## lxt

Urbanit, your wages paid out will depend on geographical area & what the competition is paying, $12-$14 an hr in my area is pretty good & actually $14 is what I pay my one groundie, $12.75 for the others, my climbers/ bucket operators make $25-$32 depending on their skills & what kinda job we`re doing.

crane jobs pay way more & my team gets paid well, the highschool thing I did because im not gettin any younger, some of these kids gotta see the opportunity in this field, this is what I present them with.

while at a career day one of the seniors came over & said whats it pay, what kinda benefits, pension, how longs it take, etc... I gave that boy a sample of what the larger companies provide & when I told him if you apply yourself, work hard you will make Damn good money $30+ an hr not uncommon, THIS caught his attention as well some of the teachers!! was a good exp.


LXT.....................


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## urbanlt

Nothing wrong with getting youth excited about our trade. Maybe if more companies did this there would not be a shortage of guys. I have looked into this based on your advise and there are lots of programs here to help youth learn a trade. There is even a $500 tax credit if you hire someone under 25 for jobs that are upwardly mobile.


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## lxt

Glad to hear it, The training thing is the hard part, not so much in the field but in being competitive, training slows ya down some, but I figure down the road is where I will reap the benefit!! hopefully.

LXT...........


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## (WLL)

clearance said:


> Perhaps you could pay according to what people produce, for example, groundsmen, they are not all the same, some are culls and should be down the road, others are just awesome. A good groundsman is the key to treework. Now you say you have never trained an employee to climb before but now you are thinking of it, hence the $15-$17 range. A beginning climber does not produce profit like a good groundsman, yet you are willing to pay him more. Thats fine if he sticks around, but if he's gone, you have eaten the loss. As far as the conslutants being paid $25-$32, crazy, take a little of thier wage and give it to the guys who actually do the work.


man thats a good post!!!!


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## mjellison

*weeding out the crackheads*

I think drug testing is helpful to weed out less desireable tree workers. especially with the meth epidemic. I will never work for another company that doesn't. the last one I worked at that didn't I found a crack pipe under the seat! I was out of there pretty quick!


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## Canyonbc

mjellison said:


> I think drug testing is helpful to weed out less desireable tree workers. especially with the meth epidemic. I will never work for another company that doesn't. the last one I worked at that didn't I found a crack pipe under the seat! I was out of there pretty quick!



Smart move. 

Its not even the matter of the illegal part...but if some guy is high on meth...i wouldnt want him running ropes for me (an example)

Safety.


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## clearance

mjellison said:


> I think drug testing is helpful to weed out less desireable tree workers. especially with the meth epidemic. I will never work for another company that doesn't. the last one I worked at that didn't I found a crack pipe under the seat! I was out of there pretty quick!



Pot as well? How did you know it was a crack pipe, experienced using them?


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## Canyonbc

clearance said:


> Pot as well? How did you know it was a crack pipe, experienced using them?



Anything. In my mind. 

Lol about the pipe.


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## NORTREE

mjellison said:


> I think drug testing is helpful to weed out less desireable tree workers. especially with the meth epidemic. I will never work for another company that doesn't. the last one I worked at that didn't I found a crack pipe under the seat! I was out of there pretty quick!


 My experience over the last couple of years has been as soon as I tell them they need to pass a DOT physical and drug test they are no longer interested in the job...which is why I have been working short handed.My old truck insurancce stated "No drivers under 21" which hurt! I just had a young kid that started his own tree service last spring ask for a job to get through the winter but he doesn't want to follow Z133 standards or take a drug test...seems sad to me.I'll take a 40+ year old thats slower but safer and doesn't have a problem with taking a drug test any day. A week after I bought the crane last March my son came home from college and told me he joined the Marines...that was a downer...he was getting good at pruning and bucket work but the Marines have guns and stuff to blow up...


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## mjellison

clearance said:


> Pot as well? How did you know it was a crack pipe, experienced using them?



Pretty easy to tell the difference. I don't use drugs period, I think anybody with half a brain could tell the difference between the two. Just trying to give my two cents. How about trying to give advice instead of insulting people.


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## Slvrmple72

mjellison, dont mind clearence hes just ornery! Good for you steering clear of trouble. For every 60 worthless workers you go through you will get about 5 that are pure gold, 15 that are so so, and a few I wouldnt even want taking my order at mickyds.


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## tree MDS

The problem with drug testing is there are alot of really friggin good tree guys that smoke pot, its just a fact. So I dont bother putting that in my help wanted adds, I figure the phone will never ring !


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## ropensaddle

lxt said:


> Urbanit, your wages paid out will depend on geographical area & what the competition is paying, $12-$14 an hr in my area is pretty good & actually $14 is what I pay my one groundie, $12.75 for the others, my climbers/ bucket operators make $25-$32 depending on their skills & what kinda job we`re doing.
> 
> crane jobs pay way more & my team gets paid well, the highschool thing I did because im not gettin any younger, some of these kids gotta see the opportunity in this field, this is what I present them with.
> 
> while at a career day one of the seniors came over & said whats it pay, what kinda benefits, pension, how longs it take, etc... I gave that boy a sample of what the larger companies provide & when I told him if you apply yourself, work hard you will make Damn good money $30+ an hr not uncommon, THIS caught his attention as well some of the teachers!! was a good exp.
> 
> 
> LXT.....................


This is what has kept wages chit, the going rate malarcky, I think
pay should be able to be based on ability, and the sky should be the
limit! It is what all the big employers do is pay what or just a little
more than the other! The main thing I want in any employee is honesty,
and loyalty,paying the going rate is one way to get the status
quoe employee. Paying his true worth is how you get a great employee
that will bless you and your company. I myself feel persons of this profession like many other ie accountants,doctors etc should make similar wages, and I am more than worth 100 per hour. If my wages are met I show up early,pinch it off until break and work late. It is true!


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## OLD CHIPMONK

Around here it's the Men's Transition Center ( from prison to the workplace ). The men are allowed to call local business people & apply for work. I would imagine some would make excellent employees , show up for work on time & not complain too much. They are pre-screened, drug free & given the alternative option, probably good workers. I have never hired, even on a daily basis, because you are not allowed to discuss their reason for incarsuration or time they served. It's an option best left open.


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## clearance

mjellison said:


> Pretty easy to tell the difference. I don't use drugs period, I think anybody with half a brain could tell the difference between the two. Just trying to give my two cents. How about trying to give advice instead of insulting people.



Not insulting you, a little thinskinned you seem to be. 
Strange but true fact about guys, some of the hardest working, and I mean balls to the wall producers that I have worked with over the years in heavy construction and jobs where you use a chainsaw all day are users. Heavy drug users, hard core drinkers, big issues. Some of them make the goody two shoes, never got drunk, never been arrested guys look downright lazy. When they show up that is, never reliable on showing up every day. When these guys get it together and lay off (maybe just smoke pot) they are great. That saying "work hard, play hard" is true.


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## tree MDS

One of the guys I used to work for was a born again, I had allready left at this point, but I heard this story from a buddy that still worked there, sort of like a foreman-awesome tree climber, big drinker. So the boss hires this ground guy from his church right, well I guess the guy sucked/was annoying or whatever. My buddy fires him, throws him out of the truck, makes him walk, and tells the boss "I told you, aint gonna find no tree worker at [email protected]#$$#@ church !, ya otta start criusin the penitentiaries"! Ah man was that funny, ya gotta know these two, lol.


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## ropensaddle

tree MDS said:


> One of the guys I used to work for was a born again, I had allready left at this point, but I heard this story from a buddy that still worked there, sort of like a foreman-awesome tree climber, big drinker. So the boss hires this ground guy from his church right, well I guess the guy sucked/was annoying or whatever. My buddy fires him, throws him out of the truck, makes him walk, and tells the boss "I told you, aint gonna find no tree worker at [email protected]#$$#@ church !, ya otta start criusin the penitentiaries"! Ah man was that funny, ya gotta know these two, lol.



I only have a reputation. That said I can't allow my company to be known as a prisoner haven. I would use in a minute someone truly a changed man! I would rather have slow honest man than a lying thief! A drug addict working in a dangerous job, fine if he is not on my clock. I have known some smokers that work hard but what if they are in my customers yard and lite one, what does that do for my reputation?


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## nytreeman

clearance said:


> Strange but true fact about guys, some of the hardest working, and I mean balls to the wall producers that I have worked with over the years in heavy construction and jobs where you use a chainsaw all day are users. ................................
> When these guys get it together and lay off (maybe just smoke pot) they are great. That saying "work hard, play hard" is true.



I agree,I've known many guys,hardcore drinkers,smokers etc.,working in this biz and in construction,that were probably some of the toughest hardest working guys I've known,some serious alcoholics.But I'm not saying that I condone it on a job or anything like that somebodies is drinking on my jobsite and the're gone,but if you show up on time,do your job,arent a screwup, then why is it anybody's business if you drink a freakin' 12 pack every night or fire up a joint to unwind? Just like if someone chooses to abstain thats his right too. It should be a matter of choice,
this used to be a free country


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## tree MDS

nytreeman said:


> I agree,I've known many guys,hardcore drinkers,smokers etc.,working in this biz and in construction,that were probably some of the toughest hardest working guys I've known,some serious alcoholics.But I'm not saying that I condone it on a job or anything like that somebodies is drinking on my jobsite and the're gone,but if you show up on time,do your job,arent a screwup, then why is it anybody's business if you drink a freakin' 12 pack every night or fire up a joint to unwind? Just like if someone chooses to abstain thats his right too. It should be a matter of choice,
> this used to be a free country


Word.


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## oldirty

tree MDS said:


> The problem with drug testing is there are alot of really friggin good tree guys that smoke pot, its just a fact. So I dont bother putting that in my help wanted adds, I figure the phone will never ring !





not to fuel the drug fires but the best tree guys i know get burnt. not only do they burn but they are far and away better than the straight edges i work with. much better.


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## ropensaddle

oldirty said:


> not to fuel the drug fires but the best tree guys i know get burnt. not only do they burn but they are far and away better than the straight edges i work with. much better.



Heyyyyyyyyyy mannnnnnnnnn like are we gonna climb that treeeeeeeeee?
Coooooooool mannnnnnnnnnnn a freeeeeeeeeeeee high 
I need people that have sense around me not burnouts and junkies lol.


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## oldirty

ropensaddle said:


> I need people that have sense around me not burnouts and junkies lol.



going to say this again rope. i have been climbing for a hot minute now and when i tell you that the guys i know who do get burnt are better that those that dont believe it. 

in fact i would gladly take a daily smoker on my crew than someone who has a drinking problem. wanting to leave the job early so they can get back to the shop and start drinking. the only thing a drunk thinks about is his next drink and that is going to affect his effort and result.


sure there might be an occasional knucklehead who cant handle their high but none that i have ever worked with. 

and if i ruled the world alcohol would be illegal. that causes far more problems than a doobie would.


ive never seen anyone blackout and beat their wife after smoking a joint.


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## ropensaddle

oldirty said:


> going to say this again rope. i have been climbing for a hot minute now and when i tell you that the guys i know who do get burnt are better that those that dont believe it.
> 
> in fact i would gladly take a daily smoker on my crew than someone who has a drinking problem. wanting to leave the job early so they can get back to the shop and start drinking. the only thing a drunk thinks about is his next drink and that is going to affect his effort and result.
> 
> 
> sure there might be an occasional knucklehead who cant handle their high but none that i have ever worked with.
> 
> and if i ruled the world alcohol would be illegal. that causes far more problems than a doobie would.
> 
> 
> ive never seen anyone blackout and beat their wife after smoking a joint.


You make a point, I wonder have you seen a glue brain after years 
of pot use? My point is, I disagree; a person that has drive that does
none of the nasties, will perform three times better than persons using
mind altering chemicals. Pot heads do work I agree, they are suffering
from a paranoia, a constant the mans watching syndrome! The real
problem is; they also suffer forgetfulness and I can't afford ooops wrong
rope True sobriety is the best.


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## tree MDS

ropensaddle said:


> You make a point, I wonder have you seen a glue brain after years
> of pot use? My point is, I disagree; a person that has drive that does
> none of the nasties, will perform three times better than persons using
> mind altering chemicals. Pot heads do work I agree, they are suffering
> from a paranoia, a constant the mans watching syndrome! The real
> problem is; they also suffer forgetfulness and I can't afford ooops wrong
> rope True sobriety is the best.


Rope, I'm sorry I find this post mildly annoying. Are you saying you dissagree with an employee smoking a doober after work, or having some beers ? I'm not saying saying on the job. I smoke pot and drink, after work and after any calls are returned etc. I'm not proud of it but its just me at this point. I dont lie in real life and I'm not gonna here either. I still do the same thing at night now as I did when I was younger- think about the days climb and try to think how it could've been better, or just enjoy the memories- and my buzz. So I gotta say does that make me a bad tree guy ? And if you were my boss and I showed up everyday worked safe (even if a little hung over) and made you a ton of money while talking to your customers with dignity and respect/taking care your equipment would that make me a bad employee ? By the way, WTF is "glue brain"?, and no, never seen it, can you post a pic ?


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## ropensaddle

tree MDS said:


> Rope, I'm sorry I find this post mildly annoying. Are you saying you dissagree with an employee smoking a doober after work, or having some beers ? I'm not saying saying on the job. I smoke pot and drink, after work and after any calls are returned etc. I'm not proud of it but its just me at this point. I dont lie in real life and I'm not gonna here either. I still do the same thing at night now as I did when I was younger- think about the days climb and try to think how it could've been better, or just enjoy the memories- and my buzz. So I gotta say does that make me a bad tree guy ? And if you were my boss and I showed up everyday worked safe (even if a little hung over) and made you a ton of money while talking to your customers with dignity and respect/taking care your equipment would that make me a bad employee ? By the way, WTF is "glue brain"?, and no, never seen it, can you post a pic ?


While I respect your honesty, the answer to your question is no.
If I know you are using, I can't afford mistakes made because of drugs. If you want to know what a glue brain is; go to a rehab and ask a counselor to show what years of pot smoking does to a person! It is a progressive disease of mind and body, that has no place in dangerous work environments. Now am I going to make you p in a cup no, not unless your actions warrant it. Maybe you are one of those special few that control it and show no signs, if so more power to you!


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## reachtreeservi

tree MDS said:


> Rope, I'm sorry I find this post mildly annoying. Are you saying you dissagree with an employee smoking a doober after work, or having some beers ? I'm not saying saying on the job. I smoke pot and drink, after work and after any calls are returned etc. I'm not proud of it but its just me at this point. I dont lie in real life and I'm not gonna here either. I still do the same thing at night now as I did when I was younger- think about the days climb and try to think how it could've been better, or just enjoy the memories- and my buzz. So I gotta say does that make me a bad tree guy ? And if you were my boss and I showed up everyday worked safe (even if a little hung over) and made you a ton of money while talking to your customers with dignity and respect/taking care your equipment would that make me a bad employee ? By the way, WTF is "glue brain"?, and no, never seen it, can you post a pic ?



By your own admission you are committing acts of behavior in your life that even you are not proud of. 
And yet you expect others to be okay with your behavior. That must be some of that pothead logic.

There is a name for those that still do the same immoral and illegal acts when they get older that they did when they were young . Foolish. 

Part of getting older is putting these foolish and childish things behind.
They call it growing up.

If you are doing drugs everyday , you are not a bad treeman. 
The term treeman denotes a professional. And there's nothing professional about dope. Or dopers. 

You are a liability.
And that's all you will ever be until you clean up your act and grow up.


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## tree MDS

reachtreeservi said:


> By your own admission you are committing acts of behavior in your life that even you are not proud of.
> And yet you expect others to be okay with your behavior. That must be some of that pothead logic.
> 
> There is a name for those that still do the same immoral and illegal acts when they get older that they did when they were young . Foolish.
> 
> Part of getting older is putting these foolish and childish things behind.
> They call it growing up.
> 
> If you are doing drugs everyday , you are not a bad treeman.
> The term treeman denotes a professional. And there's nothing professional about dope. Or dopers.
> 
> You are a liability.
> And that's all you will ever be until you clean up your act and grow up.


Lol ! I'll bet I'm better than you are !


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## reachtreeservi

All druggies have delusions of grandeur.


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## tree MDS

reachtreeservi said:


> All druggies have delusions of grandeur.


 Fossil.


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## reachtreeservi

tree MDS said:


> Fossil.



On the contrary, someone talking about doobies is the fossil here.

I'm a tree Industry Professional. A man striving to run my company and live my life in a manner that I can be proud of. 

A man that keeps no secrets from his family and fears nothing if he pulls up to a highway checkpoint. 

A man that if he gets hurt at work, can pee in a cup and have his medical bills took care of. 

A man that cares more for his family than his own illegal , illicit addictions. 

At the end of the day, that's what drugs are really about, isn't it?
Selfishness.

Someone who cares only about his addictions and is unable to conform to societal norms is the fossil.


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## tree MDS

reachtreeservi said:


> On the contrary, someone talking about doobies is the fossil here.
> 
> I'm a tree Industry Professional. A man striving to run my company and live my life in a manner that I can be proud of.
> 
> A man that keeps no secrets from his family and fears nothing if he pulls up to a highway checkpoint.
> 
> A man that if he gets hurt at work, can pee in a cup and have his medical bills took care of.
> 
> A man that cares more for his family than his own illegal , illicit addictions.
> 
> At the end of the day, that's what drugs are really about, isn't it?
> Selfishness.
> 
> Someone who cares only about his addictions and is unable to conform to societal norms is the fossil.


Its a good thing you got all that medical coverage judging by your biography! Man, rock climbing, sky diving, tree climbing too ! Man it dont seem like you're all that worried about the old fam to me.


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## reachtreeservi

I've been climbing and Skydiving for over 20 years without an injury, I'm slowing down a bit as I get older but I'm sure my family and I will be okay in the future. 

I do have very good medical coverage . 
And disability insurance. And life insurance. 

But thank you for your concern for my family, I'm sure we'll all sleep better knowing our safety is on the mind of some doper.


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## tree MDS

reachtreeservi said:


> I've been climbing and Skydiving for over 20 years without an injury, I'm slowing down a bit as I get older but I'm sure my family and I will be okay in the future.
> 
> I do have very good medical coverage .
> And disability insurance. And life insurance.
> 
> But thank you for your concern for my family, I'm sure we'll all sleep better knowing our safety is on the mind of some doper.


How many years tree climbing ?


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## reachtreeservi

tree mds, Put down the pipe and pick up the phone. 

Help is just a call away.


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## tree MDS

reachtreeservi said:


> tree mds, Put down the pipe and pick up the phone.
> 
> Help is just a call away.



"look honey, I've got a wiener" - prior to sky dive jump ! Lol.


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## reachtreeservi

tree MDS said:


> "look honey, I've got a wiener" - prior to sky dive jump ! Lol.



Druggies ?

A laugh a minute......


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## oldirty

reach cmon. you cant be that big of a hard on. 

now i am not saying what treemds does is right but what if, just what if, he has found a way to better deal with his life and all thats around him by maybe taking a couple pulls off a plant?

would you tell him to take prozac?

maybe this plant eases the pain of a long day. real pain. 

would you tell him to take oxyconton?


i think if i had to choose between manmade drugs or something that is "of the earth", i would choose the earth.

only based on the idea that the earth has been around longer than man, it knows what its doing.


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## reachtreeservi

oldirty said:


> reach cmon. you cant be that big of a hard on.
> 
> now i am not saying what treemds does is right but what if, just what if, he has found a way to better deal with his life and all thats around him by maybe taking a couple pulls off a plant?
> 
> would you tell him to take prozac?
> 
> maybe this plant eases the pain of a long day. real pain.
> 
> would you tell him to take oxyconton?
> 
> 
> i think if i had to choose between manmade drugs or something that is "of the earth", i would choose the earth.
> 
> only based on the idea that the earth has been around longer than man, it knows what its doing.



I wouldn't tell him to take anything.

I'd tell him, and anyone else to deal with reality.

I'd tell him, and anyone else to take responsibility for his life and if there's something wrong , to change it or suck it up.
Instead of hiding in a pill bottle or a sack of weed

Real men don't need a crutch to make it thru life. 
They do what it takes, take care of their families, and get the job done.

Anything else is just plain weakness.


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## ropensaddle

oldirty said:


> reach cmon. you cant be that big of a hard on.
> 
> now i am not saying what treemds does is right but what if, just what if, he has found a way to better deal with his life and all thats around him by maybe taking a couple pulls off a plant?
> 
> would you tell him to take prozac?
> 
> maybe this plant eases the pain of a long day. real pain.
> 
> would you tell him to take oxyconton?
> 
> 
> i think if i had to choose between manmade drugs or something that is "of the earth", i would choose the earth.
> 
> only based on the idea that the earth has been around longer than man, it knows what its doing.


I would say suck it up and step up to the plate! Any mind altering drug
is not the cure to your problems,facing them is!


----------



## oldirty

i bet neither one of you guys even smiled once during "grandma's boy" did ya?


i'll pee in anyones cup bud. not worried about it personally but i think you might be a little over the top with it.


----------



## reachtreeservi

oldirty said:


> i bet neither one of you guys even smiled once during "grandma's boy" did ya?
> 
> 
> i'll pee in anyones cup bud. not worried about it personally but i think you might be a little over the top with it.



Dope is wrong.
All the opinions in the world don't change wrong to right.


----------



## ropensaddle

oldirty said:


> i bet neither one of you guys even smiled once during "grandma's boy" did ya?
> 
> 
> i'll pee in anyones cup bud. not worried about it personally but i think you might be a little over the top with it.



Grand mas boy  I just want to present the best possible
view of my company. If I hire Cheetch And Chong what would that
make my service appear to be? I don't hate you if you smoke it,
I hope you will see it is the road to nowhere! I however don't want
my reputation tarnished by sketchy personnel ! Just business.


----------



## oldirty

you boys are pointing your fingers at the wrong guy.

i was telling you of my past experiences and who i would rather work with.




rope, grandma's boy is a movie. funny as well.


----------



## ropensaddle

oldirty said:


> you boys are pointing your fingers at the wrong guy.
> 
> i was telling you of my past experiences and who i would rather work with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rope, grandma's boy is a movie. funny as well.



Ok, I like humor but can't say I saw it! I just don't understand
you on this topic but maybe the people where you live are different!
I have friends that don't smoke it that I would put up against any that
do! They think clear and portray professionalism at work. I am not saying
that no pothead does not take pride in his work, just in my experience
they are forgetful at some of the worst times


----------



## Burvol

Alcohol is the bad stuff, not pot. It is not illeagal to be addicted to alcohol, but it destroys people and relationships to the point that it is obviously harmful, yet legal. I am coming through the other side of 7 years drunk. I am not proud of it, but only inside I am ashamed because I made a choice that I chose, abusing a fun, recreational thing. I have been fixing the problem and I am a very happy man. Talk about how booz kills everything, not about dopers. People who are lazy and retarted like to smoke pot just like intelligent people do, they just use it as a crutch for their short comings at birth. Dopers are what crankers are.


----------



## reachtreeservi

Burvol said:


> People who are lazy and retarted like to smoke pot just like intelligent people do, they just use it as a crutch for their short comings at birth. Dopers are what crankers are.



It's all illegal, it's all dope.

Dope is wrong.
All the opinions in the world don't change wrong to right.


----------



## ropensaddle

Burvol said:


> Alcohol is the bad stuff, not pot. It is not illeagal to be addicted to alcohol, but it destroys people and relationships to the point that it is obviously harmful, yet legal. I am coming through the other side of 7 years drunk. I am not proud of it, but only inside I am ashamed because I made a choice that I chose, abusing a fun, recreational thing. I have been fixing the problem and I am a very happy man. Talk about how booz kills everything, not about dopers. People who are lazy and retarted like to smoke pot just like intelligent people do, they just use it as a crutch for their short comings at birth. Dopers are what crankers are.



Anything a person puts into his body to change his reality is a drug!
No drug is going to change reality for the better not pot,crank,alcohol
or heroin. The change will occur but it will not be liked. It is a temporary
solution to a permanent problem in the person's perception of reality!
Reality sucks I agree sometimes, but sticking a drug in your body will
not cure the problem.


----------



## oldirty

all drugs?


i mean wtf is the difference between pot and the crap the good dr writes a prescription for the bummed out housewife, or the over stressed husband?

that stuff right there is doo doo. 

i live my life preferably pill free.


----------



## reachtreeservi

oldirty said:


> all drugs?
> 
> 
> i mean wtf is the difference between pot and the crap the good dr writes a prescription for the bummed out housewife, or the over stressed husband?
> 
> that stuff right there is doo doo.
> 
> i live my life preferably pill free.



You live your life pill free, but don't know the difference between a Doctor's prescription and illegal drugs ?

You don't smoke pot but argue for it's use on internet forums ?

I must say oldirty, You're an interesting person.


----------



## Burvol

reachtreeservi said:


> It's all illegal, it's all dope.
> 
> Dope is wrong.
> All the opinions in the world don't change wrong to right.



I call BS on you. Alcohol is no different. I am a law abiding citizen, and I disagree on Alcohol's free pass. BS! Take a poll on here and see how many people drink. A lot. I don't care, I use to drink and know plenty of people who do, but since it's legal, it must be ok. Is booze far better than a plant that doesn't make you stink, sick, blury-eyed, stupid, foolish, eratic, and annoying?


----------



## oldirty

reachtreeservi said:


> You live your life pill free, but don't know the difference between a Doctor's prescription and illegal drugs ?
> 
> You don't smoke pot but argue for it's use on internet forums ?
> 
> I must say oldirty, You're an interesting person.





probably one of the greatest compliments i have ever been given by a coworker was that i was the jonathan papalbon of our tree company. that i actually made it fun to go to work.



so i do appreciate the compliment man! thanks


----------



## oldirty

but in all seriousness. without pumping someone full of manmade chemical why not use something that is literally of the earth?


you have obviously never had the munchies. how good do you think those munchies would be to someone with a terminal illness or to someone with some sort of ailment that does not allow them the desire or want to eat?

finally an urge for food!


"the munchies" are called "the munchies" for a reason.


we can argue all night but you are too stuck in your ways to have a small look at another angle.

your stuck on the "legality" of it. do you hate thomas jefferson? or george washington? what about abe lincolns wife, mary todd or whatever? they had fields of the sh!t.


----------



## ropensaddle

Burvol said:


> I call BS on you. Alcohol is no different. I am a law abiding citizen, and I disagree on Alcohol's free pass. BS! Take a poll on here and see how many people drink. A lot. I don't care, I use to drink and know plenty of people who do, but since it's legal, it must be ok. Is booze far better than a plant that doesn't make you stink, sick, blury-eyed, stupid, foolish, eratic, and annoying?



I agree partially, a problem with alcohol is just as bad as any drug.


----------



## ropensaddle

oldirty said:


> but in all seriousness. without pumping someone full of manmade chemical why not use something that is literally of the earth?
> 
> 
> you have obviously never had the munchies. how good do you think those munchies would be to someone with a terminal illness or to someone with some sort of ailment that does not allow them the desire or want to eat?
> 
> finally an urge for food!
> 
> 
> "the munchies" are called "the munchies" for a reason.
> 
> 
> we can argue all night but you are too stuck in your ways to have a small look at another angle.
> 
> your stuck on the "legality" of it. do you hate thomas jefferson? or george washington? what about abe lincolns wife, mary todd or whatever? they had fields of the sh!t.


Ok, I am starting to get a feeling you are holding back old dirty
If not, fire your crew and test your next employees before their sickness
becomes your own! Get out buddy while you can


----------



## oldirty

ropensaddle said:


> Ok, old dirty
> 
> 
> If not, fire your crew and test your next employees before their sickness
> becomes your own! Get out buddy while you can



its oldirty



part of the crew bud not owning it. lol


----------



## oldirty

oh wait.

this is the business management forum. 

i'm going back out to hang out with the boys. see if we need anything in the shop. maybe do a little maintenance....


see you desk jockeys later.


----------



## reachtreeservi

Burvol said:


> I call BS on you. Alcohol is no different. I am a law abiding citizen, and I disagree on Alcohol's free pass. BS! Take a poll on here and see how many people drink. A lot. I don't care, I use to drink and know plenty of people wo do, but since it's legal, and many people use it. Is booze far better than a plant that doesn't make you stink, sick, blury-eyed, stupid, foolish, eratic, and annoying?



Burvol, I agree with you. Alcohol abuse is devastating. 
However the post you quoted was about illegal drugs. Not alcohol.


Originally Posted by reachtreeservi 
Quote: " It's all illegal, it's all dope.

Dope is wrong.
All the opinions in the world don't change wrong to right. " Unquote


Which was in reference to: 

Originally Posted by Burvol 
Quote " People who are lazy and retarted like to smoke pot just like intelligent people do, they just use it as a crutch for their short comings at birth. Dopers are what crankers are. " Unquote

Which is still true, whether you call BS or not.

And since you brought up the subject of alcohol:

Originally Posted by Burvol 
Quote " Is booze far better than a plant that doesn't make you stink, sick, blury-eyed, stupid, foolish, eratic, and annoying? " Unquote

The answer is: No, it's not any better. I don't drink. If they outlawed it tomorrow morning it wouldn't affect me in the slightest. I'm against any substance that alters my ability to make rational decisions.

Let me ask you this , straight up. Do you smoke pot ?
And if your answer is yes and I'm willing to accept the consequences for my self and my family, then I still don't approve of the act. But I can accept the honesty and no BS. 

But whether you do or don't smoke, all the arguments you might make make condoning illegal drug use won't amount to a pinprick on a postage stamp.

When you wake up tomorrow, It'll still be illegal. 
Dopers will still be doing dope.
Those dopers will never be operating at full potential.
There actions will still cost them and their families untold amount of money and misery.


Dope is wrong.

All the posts in a chainsaw forum won't change this.

Your opinions on this subject, Burvol , are wrong. 

And that's no BS


----------



## oldirty

reachtreeservi said:


> Burvol, I agree with you. Alcohol abuse is devastating.
> However the post you quoted was about illegal drugs. Not alcohol.
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by reachtreeservi
> Quote: " It's all illegal, it's all dope.
> 
> Dope is wrong.
> All the opinions in the world don't change wrong to right. " Unquote
> 
> 
> Which was in reference to:
> 
> Originally Posted by Burvol
> Quote " People who are lazy and retarted like to smoke pot just like intelligent people do, they just use it as a crutch for their short comings at birth. Dopers are what crankers are. " Unquote
> 
> Which is still true, whether you call BS or not.
> 
> And since you brought up the subject of alcoholic:
> 
> Originally Posted by Burvol
> Quote " Is booze far better than a plant that doesn't make you stink, sick, blury-eyed, stupid, foolish, eratic, and annoying? " Unquote
> 
> The answer is: No, it's not any better. I don't drink. If they outlawed it tomorrow morning it wouldn't affect me in the slightest. I'm against any substance that alters my ability to make rational decisions.
> 
> Let me ask you this , straight up. Do you smoke pot ?
> And if your answer is yes and I'm willing to accept the consequences for my self and my family, then I still don't approve of the act. But I can accept the honesty and no BS.
> 
> But whether you do or don't smoke, all the arguments you might make make condoning illegal drug use won't amount to a pinprick on a postage stamp.
> 
> When you wake up tomorrow, It'll still be illegal.
> Dopers will still be doing dope.
> Those dopers will never be operating at full potential.
> There actions will still cost them and their families untold amount of money and misery.
> 
> 
> Dope is wrong.
> 
> All the posts in a chainsaw forum won't change this.
> 
> Your opinions on this subject, Burvol , are wrong.
> 
> And that's no BS






some one roll this guy a fattie, quick.


----------



## reachtreeservi

I must say oldirty, You're an interesting person. opcorn:


----------



## clearance

oldirty said:


> some one roll this guy a fattie, quick.



Good one oldirty. Lighten up a bit there reach, pot is so common now that the b.s. about it is known to be b.s. I haven't used it for many years, along with booze, but so what. Here is a truth, if everyone who smoked pot in this province didn't show up tomorrow morning, the place would grind to a halt.

The time for dope, if you use that is, is after work, not before or during, thats it.


----------



## ropensaddle

So if he is burnt the night before and comes into work in a fog,
and grabs the wrong rope, lets the limb crash through the house,
it would be ok with you? I ask you, do persons that smoke pot have
all their senses and never forget? I have witnessed many stupid things
done by drug users and they all think they are the best,work the hardest
and get more done. In their own toasted mind that may be true but the 
rest of us here on planet reality, know different.


----------



## Burvol

ropensaddle said:


> So if he is burnt the night before and comes into work in a fog,
> and grabs the wrong rope, lets the limb crash through the house,
> it would be ok with you? I ask you, do persons that smoke pot have
> all their senses and never forget? I have witnessed many stupid things
> done by drug users and they all think they are the best,work the hardest
> and get more done. In their own toasted mind that may be true but the
> rest of us here on planet reality, know different.



Pot does not put you in a fog the next day, booze does. Ok, it's all illegal, it's all bad. Gotcha. How about splenda vs. sugar? Anything that puts a fun, devious, exciting, or otherwise good flavor in my mouth is wrong.


----------



## Burvol

reachtreeservi said:


> Burvol, I agree with you. Alcohol abuse is devastating.
> However the post you quoted was about illegal drugs. Not alcohol.
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by reachtreeservi
> Quote: " It's all illegal, it's all dope.
> 
> Dope is wrong.
> All the opinions in the world don't change wrong to right. " Unquote
> 
> 
> Which was in reference to:
> 
> Originally Posted by Burvol
> Quote " People who are lazy and retarted like to smoke pot just like intelligent people do, they just use it as a crutch for their short comings at birth. Dopers are what crankers are. " Unquote
> 
> Which is still true, whether you call BS or not.
> 
> And since you brought up the subject of alcohol:
> 
> Originally Posted by Burvol
> Quote " Is booze far better than a plant that doesn't make you stink, sick, blury-eyed, stupid, foolish, eratic, and annoying? " Unquote
> 
> The answer is: No, it's not any better. I don't drink. If they outlawed it tomorrow morning it wouldn't affect me in the slightest. I'm against any substance that alters my ability to make rational decisions.
> 
> Let me ask you this , straight up. Do you smoke pot ?
> And if your answer is yes and I'm willing to accept the consequences for my self and my family, then I still don't approve of the act. But I can accept the honesty and no BS.
> 
> But whether you do or don't smoke, all the arguments you might make make condoning illegal drug use won't amount to a pinprick on a postage stamp.
> 
> When you wake up tomorrow, It'll still be illegal.
> Dopers will still be doing dope.
> Those dopers will never be operating at full potential.
> There actions will still cost them and their families untold amount of money and misery.
> 
> 
> Dope is wrong.
> 
> All the posts in a chainsaw forum won't change this.
> 
> Your opinions on this subject, Burvol , are wrong.
> 
> And that's no BS



That really hit home with me Reach....I need help!!! My life is so out of control and I am lost. Pot has torn me and my fiance apart, just like so many families, the laughter, the relaxation, the chillin' with a glass of iced tea after work....I don't want to live in your world Reach, and that is no BS.


----------



## tree MDS

Ok, lets just set one thing straight, "dope" is heroin-its been that way sinse the 70's I believe. There is a big difference between the two. I personally think reach is a kiss a$$, thats just my opinion, at least I was honest instead of just saying what everyone wants to hear-and look at all this lovely response!! Pot is pot, its not bad, its not that good for everyone either, but its life, everone has flaws and in this biz probably more so, suck it up you dont own your employees!! Alchohol is much worse I'll agree, personally I'll try and work on that. I agree with rope that true sobriety is the best, but its treework you gotta be realistic about it or you're gonna be very lonely out there. When me and a friend worked for the christian he would drop in that we really should get drug tested-you know, just for ins. purposes and all that, we just kind of said well you gotta do what you gotta do-and guess what?...no drug test ever came! why? because we were an awesome crew and he couldnt lose us. Oh, did I forget to say..reach is a kiss a$$.BTW, WTF happened to my third rep point? I wanted that, damn. Lol.


----------



## ropensaddle

tree MDS said:


> Ok, lets just set one thing straight, "dope" is heroin-its been that way sinse the 70's I believe. There is a big difference between the two. I personally think reach is a kiss a$$, thats just my opinion, at least I was honest instead of just saying what everyone wants to hear-and look at all this lovely response!! Pot is pot, its not bad, its not that good for everyone either, but its life, everone has flaws and in this biz probably more so, suck it up you dont own your employees!! Alchohol is much worse I'll agree, personally I'll try and work on that. I agree with rope that true sobriety is the best, but its treework you gotta be realistic about it or you're gonna be very lonely out there. When me and a friend worked for the christian he would drop in that we really should get drug tested-you know, just for ins. purposes and all that, we just kind of said well you gotta do what you gotta do-and guess what?...no drug test ever came! why? because we were an awesome crew and he couldnt lose us. Oh, did I forget to say..reach is a kiss a$$.BTW, WTF happened to my third rep point? I wanted that, damn. Lol.


Ya musta rolled it up and smoked it The thing you aren't seeing
in your pot head logic,is; no, the employer don't own or want to own you,
however he is responsible for your actions and yes, pot does put you in a
fog and out of touch with reality! By the way, The hardest drug I have done in fifteen years is aspirin, and I am not alone. Alcohol is terrible if a person has a problem I agree 100%, most of those types just flat don't show up. Anyway if you want to hear reality, I am sorry your boss can't find sober individuals but the problem is they probably won't work for what your awesome crew does!:hmm3grin2orange: I certainly know I won't, ok old dirty, I see where ya are coming from now, cheapest workers not
the best quality


----------



## tree MDS

ropensaddle said:


> Ya musta rolled it up and smoked it The thing you aren't seeing
> in your pot head logic,is; no, the employer don't own or want to own you,
> however he is responsible for your actions and yes, pot does put you in a
> fog and out of touch with reality! By the way, The hardest drug I have done in fifteen years is aspirin, and I am not alone. Alcohol is terrible if a person has a problem I agree 100%, most of those types just flat don't show up. Anyway if you want to hear reality, I am sorry your boss can't find sober individuals but the problem is they probably won't work for what your awesome crew does!:hmm3grin2orange: I certainly know I won't, ok old dirty, I see where ya are coming from now cheapest workers not
> the best quality



That was a long time ago, with the ole boss, me and my friend were 20, I'm now 35 and have had my own buisiness for this will be twelve years now, just for the record. I've also got alot of equipment that I worked very hard to aquire-one ton 4 wheel, diesel bandit self feeder with winch,4 wheel drive rear mount 55-60 with 2 pto winches, john deere 4600+48 backhoe+farmi winch, trailer, toyota extra cab 4 wheel(estimates), a couple arbor jet systems, tons of huskys all kinds of ropes and anything else I need-except a stumper. I started out with a sand blaster, a welder and an older one ton. Not too bad for a "pothead" I guess.


----------



## tree MDS

Oh, I forgot the gas drill and cabling supplies-must have been that rep point, lol.


----------



## ropensaddle

tree MDS said:


> That was a long time ago, with the ole boss, me and my friend were 20, I'm now 35 and have had my own buisiness for this will be twelve years now, just for the record. I've also got alot of equipment that I worked very hard to aquire-one ton 4 wheel, diesel bandit self feeder with winch,4 wheel drive rear mount 55-60 with 2 pto winches, john deere 4600+48 backhoe+farmi winch, trailer, toyota extra cab 4 wheel(estimates), a couple arbor jet systems, tons of huskys all kinds of ropes and anything else I need-except a stumper. I started out with a sand blaster, a welder and an older one ton. Not too bad for a "pothead" I guess.



Yeah, them plants can bring wealth, but don't get caught growing that stuff or you will have nothing again!




























































By the way, the man is watching :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## tree MDS

ropensaddle said:


> Yeah, them plants can bring wealth, but don't get caught growing that stuff or you will have nothing again!



Nice one there rope, but thats not the case, I've simply devoted the last 20 years to treework thats all. I'm really not that big of a pothead, I just smoke about a half doob at night when all is done, thats all. Its a good thing too or else I would have to deal with you and kiss a$$ reach chasing me around with yer friggin pee cup.


----------



## ropensaddle

tree MDS said:


> Nice one there rope, but thats not the case, I've simply devoted the last 20 years to treework thats all. I'm really not that big of a pothead, I just smoke about a half doob at night when all is done, thats all. Its a good thing too or else I would have to deal with you and kiss a$$ reach chasing me around with yer friggin pee cup.



Nah not me, I only would get ya if you showed burnout stupid behavior!


----------



## tree MDS

ropensaddle said:


> Nah not me, I only would get ya if you showed burnout stupid behavior!



Thats not too bad I could deal with that. Not like I'm trying to start a fight here mind you, I hope we can be friends man. Nothing wrong with a little tussle right?


----------



## oldirty

tree MDS said:


> Its a good thing too or else I would have to deal with you and kiss a$$ reach chasing me around with yer friggin pee cup.



outta rep. good one.


----------



## oldirty

ropensaddle said:


> ok old dirty,



its oldirty.



hey rope, what was life like 16 years ago that makes aspirin a good time for you now?


and i dont believe grass can be lumped into the crap.


----------



## beowulf343

oldirty said:


> not to fuel the drug fires but the best tree guys i know get burnt. not only do they burn but they are far and away better than the straight edges i work with. much better.



Disturbing statement. Drugs are not a guaranteed route to becoming a good treeman. I've worked with some great treemen-some were clean, some were alcoholics, and some were druggies. I've also worked with some piss poor treemen-some were clean, some were alcoholics, and some were druggies. A love and passion for the job will make a good treeman whether they are doing drugs or not.


I'm actually one of the "straight edges." Don't do drugs and go months without a beer. Very early in my climbing career, came to work with a bad hangover. Foreman pulled me aside and asked me how i'd feel if i hurt one of my groundies because i was screwed up. The thought stuck with me. 
I've got nothing against drugs and alcohol. I tell my guys when they leave the yard, i don't give a rat's ass what they do. They can get drunk, get high, sell their body on the street, go to church, whatever. But if what they do outside of work affects what they do at work, well, then it becomes my problem, and they aren't gonna like how i solve problems.


----------



## oldirty

beowulf343 said:


> Disturbing statement. Drugs are not a guaranteed route to becoming a good treeman. I've worked with some great treemen-some were clean, some were alcoholics, and some were druggies. I've also worked with some piss poor treemen-some were clean, some were alcoholics, and some were druggies. A love and passion for the job will make a good treeman whether they are doing drugs or not.
> 
> 
> I'm actually one of the "straight edges." Don't do drugs and go months without a beer. Very early in my climbing career, came to work with a bad hangover. Foreman pulled me aside and asked me how i'd feel if i hurt one of my groundies because i was screwed up. The thought stuck with me.
> I've got nothing against drugs and alcohol. I tell my guys when they leave the yard, i don't give a rat's ass what they do. They can get drunk, get high, sell their body on the street, go to church, whatever. But if what they do outside of work affects what they do at work, well, then it becomes my problem, and they aren't gonna like how i solve problems.





no your right on that one big dog. i should clear it up a bit and say that of the guys who used in one way or the other it was the pot smokers that did it best. 

maybe that is where the misunderstanding comes in.


----------



## ropensaddle

oldirty said:


> no your right on that one big dog. i should clear it up a bit and say that of the guys who used in one way or the other it was the pot smokers that did it best.
> 
> maybe that is where the misunderstanding comes in.



It would be a cold day in help,before some pot head out climbed me.
Not braggin it is just fact,I have my senses and won't have to second
guess, and did not forget to get my gear when the competition begun.


----------



## ropensaddle

oldirty said:


> its oldirty.
> 
> 
> 
> hey rope, what was life like 16 years ago that makes aspirin a good time for you now?
> 
> 
> and i dont believe grass can be lumped into the crap.



Sorry on the name, life was help in those days, but have too many senior moments to remember them now! Grass can be lumped into crap it is no magic wand to make bad behavior good! It is lesser than some nasties, but I have seen kids go hungry so parents could get high. No matter how you try, it will never be right just better than some things. Many here have problems with saw buying and shinny new products and i'm Guilty.


----------



## tree MDS

ropensaddle said:


> It would be a cold day in help,before some pot head out climbed me.
> Not braggin it is just fact,I have my senses and won't have to second
> guess, and did not forget to get my gear when the competition begun.



Remember, we're not talking about climbing stoned, I would'nt do that these days- a few times in my younger days, but it was too much effort/paranoia to be honest. I'll guarantee I'd give ya a run for yer money, the fog aint that thick.


----------



## ropensaddle

tree MDS said:


> Remember, we're not talking about climbing stoned, I would'nt do that these days- a few times in my younger days, but it was too much effort/paranoia to be honest. I'll guarantee I'd give ya a run for yer money, the fog aint that thick.



:hmm3grin2orange: I would probably have to train, as my bucket
has got me thick in the middle  Their aren't too many youngsters
around here that outperform me, but I feel my body changing some, and
don't like going through the pain to show my capabilities anymore.
A whippersnapper full of pis and Wheaties almost seems like a Rocky 6


----------



## tree MDS

ropensaddle said:


> :hmm3grin2orange: I would probably have to train, as my bucket
> has got me thick in the middle  Their aren't too many youngsters
> around here that outperform me, but I feel my body changing some, and
> don't like going through the pain to show my capabilities anymore.
> A whippersnapper full of pis and Wheaties almost seems like a Rocky 6



Whippersnapper! Thanks, I thought I was getting old at 35.


----------



## tree MDS

oldirty said:


> outta rep. good one.



Thanks for the thought.


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## reachtreeservi

Touching....


Let's all have a group hug !


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## ropensaddle

reachtreeservi said:


> Touching....
> 
> 
> Let's all have a group hug !



You are too funny


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## oldirty

reachtreeservi said:


> Touching....
> 
> 
> Let's all have a group hug !






yes a hug would be nice. but since i do not like male on male touching at all how about a high 5? or maybe a firm handshake.


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## tree MDS

reachtreeservi said:


> Touching....
> 
> 
> Let's all have a group hug !



Good one, I almost choked on my doober.


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## oldirty

tree MDS said:


> Good one, I almost choked on my doober.



lol


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## reachtreeservi

You guys kill me......


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## B-Edwards

I used to smoke pot . I never did it at work . I never tried it until I was in my twenties. Here are the things I learned about pot. It makes you stupid. The next day YOU ARE IN A FOG. I was constantly worried about pulling out in front of a car or truck. I didn't feel totally clear minded for several days after smoking it . No need to compare it to alcohol to rationalize it. We all know drunks are fools. Why not use it to help people who are sick have an appitite, (they probably aren't climbing trees). I told a guy who worked for me one time (Maybe your so stupid you don't know your stupid) I know that sounds awful but you don't know the entire story. I will say he definitely was so stupid he didn't know he was. Found out later he was a pill and pothead. Maybe I am so stupid I don't know it? But I have smoked it so I can say for sure smoking it makes You stupid. Professionals don't use drugs!!!!!!!!!!!


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## reachtreeservi

B-Edwards said:


> I used to smoke pot . I never did it at work . I never tried it until I was in my twenties. Here are the things I learned about pot. It makes you stupid. The next day YOU ARE IN A FOG. I was constantly worried about pulling out in front of a car or truck. I didn't feel totally clear minded for several days after smoking it . No need to compare it to alcohol to rationalize it. We all know drunks are fools. Why not use it to help people who are sick have an appitite, (they probably aren't climbing trees). I told a guy who worked for me one time (Maybe your so stupid you don't know your stupid) I know that sounds awful but you don't know the entire story. I will say he definitely was so stupid he didn't know he was. Found out later he was a pill and pothead. Maybe I am so stupid I don't know it? But I have smoked it so I can say for sure smoking it makes You stupid. Professionals don't use drugs!!!!!!!!!!!



Professionals don't use drugs.

There it is, in a nutshell.


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## tree MDS

reachtreeservi said:


> Professionals don't use drugs.
> 
> There it is, in a nutshell.



Hey reach, just cuz you never answered- how many years tree climbing exp. you got ?


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## reachtreeservi

4 years Tree Climbing , 20 years Rock climbing and Caving SRT.

All Drug Free.


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## BC WetCoast

Interesting opinions. I remember reading a thread on the Injury Section about guys with bad backs and hips. Seems like half the board was on some form of pain killer and were still climbing. 

Wonder what's worse, legal pain killers or "illegal" grass?

Just a side note, marijuana was only made illegal between 1910 and 1930. And that was through the heavy lobbying of Dupont and William Hearst, both of whom had processes for making plastics and paper from wood. Hemp was a competing product, so their lobby was to eliminate the competition. 

What I'm trying to say is that marijuana is illegal because someone decided it should be illegal not because of some inherent characteristic. Similar to alcohol during Prohibition, it was made illegal because someone decided to make it illegal.

In most jurisdictions of North America, marijuana has be decriminalized, that is you won't be charged for possession and use. Many places in the world, it has been legalized

I haven't been in this industry long, about 6 years, but in my estimation 80% of the people who I have worked with toke up fairly regularily. Not that I'm pure, but it makes me sick, so I don't. 

Personally, I feel much safer around guys who toked up the night before (and fell asleep early) than drunks who came to work hung over (and partied like a rock star all night).

The problem I see with testing is that you are severely limiting the supply of potential workers in an industry that has difficulty recruiting in the first place. People should be measured on their performance.


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## oldirty

finally a voice of reason. 

while i respect your opinions reach and rope, i think you might be a bit on the tyranical side of the matter. 


other than wasting the tax payers money on wasted police effort i dont see a problem. 

go after the bigger and badder fish like meth and other manmade chemicals.

a plant is a plant.


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## masterarbor

*hey user, you're a...*

:looser:


tree MDS said:


> Rope, I'm sorry I find this post mildly annoying. Are you saying you dissagree with an employee smoking a doober after work, or having some beers ? I'm not saying saying on the job. I smoke pot and drink, after work and after any calls are returned etc. I'm not proud of it but its just me at this point. I dont lie in real life and I'm not gonna here either. I still do the same thing at night now as I did when I was younger- think about the days climb and try to think how it could've been better, or just enjoy the memories- and my buzz. So I gotta say does that make me a bad tree guy ? And if you were my boss and I showed up everyday worked safe (even if a little hung over) and made you a ton of money while talking to your customers with dignity and respect/taking care your equipment would that make me a bad employee ? By the way, WTF is "glue brain"?, and no, never seen it, can you post a pic ?


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## tree MDS

masterarbor said:


> :looser:



Not even worth it buddy.


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## reachtreeservi

masterarbor said:


> :looser:



+10 

Good Post....
Rep on the way as soon as I'm reloaded.


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## masterarbor

hey MDS, i don't want to make a bunch of enemies around here. i've had my day with the D&A. i've got almost 7 yrs, clean now and life is so much better for me now than before. i'm a better climber and businessman. i had to learn that there is a reason why people use everyday. this is a universal truth, not just applicable to me. so if you smoke everyday or drink predictably, there is most likely a reason whether you're aware of it or not. most of the time a guy is in a lot of pain or real angry or sometimes it has to do with self esteem or a cocktail of all three. once the underlying issue is resolved the need to medicate on a regular basis dissolves. It is quite possible that you will reject this assertion at first read- but let it marinade a bit and think it over for a few days. if i can help you with anything please feel free to email me. good luck! kevin [email protected]


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## tree MDS

masterarbor said:


> hey MDS, i don't want to make a bunch of enemies around here. i've had my day with the D&A. i've got almost 7 yrs, clean now and life is so much better for me now than before. i'm a better climber and businessman. i had to learn that there is a reason why people use everyday. this is a universal truth, not just applicable to me. so if you smoke everyday or drink predictably, there is most likely a reason whether you're aware of it or not. most of the time a guy is in a lot of pain or real angry or sometimes it has to do with self esteem or a cocktail of all three. once the underlying issue is resolved the need to medicate on a regular basis dissolves. It is quite possible that you will reject this assertion at first read- but let it marinade a bit and think it over for a few days. if i can help you with anything please feel free to email me. good luck! kevin [email protected]



Evidently there is a gag order placed on me so I cant respond, sorry.


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## tree MDS

TreeCo said:


> You can respond all you like just don't talk about your infraction for calling the non dope smokers in this thread 'fags'.



Ok, but for the record it was not all "dope smokers", just ..a couple. I was just trying to have a little fun thats all, I'm also good for a serious post too, remember that. I have no problem with people that are sober, I have had sober employers before and we got along perfectly- because I am a professional and I allways respected them-and allways did my job. Its nobodys buisiness what an employee does after work unless it effects his performance adversely to the point where that employee is deemed unsafe, has problems with other employees, abuses equipment, produces poor quality work or dissrespects a customer. I am simply sticking up for the many, many treemen that partake in the daily doober and are still safe professional tree workers- because that just the way it is, like it or not its the buisiness we are in.


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## OLD CHIPMONK

Our climber showed up , 1 hr. late , again & again !


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## impetus

This is the wrong biz to be looking for reliable trustworthy guys....no offense to anyone but one of the first things i learned when i got into this biz was that most tree guys are one or all of the following ,drunks, drug addicts or as*hole*. As for me I never did drugs and I quit drinking heavily so that just leaves one thing.......


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