# Moisture Meter sugestions



## woodenbiker (Feb 10, 2010)

I have milled a lot of wood lately and now I am going to buy a moisture meter and I was wondering if anyone had any sugestions. I want to stay in the $80 - $140 range. The one I have my eye on now ishttp://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2080246/28518/Lignomat-Mini-Ligno-ED-Moisture-Meter.aspx
If you have any other ideas please let me know.


----------



## BobL (Feb 10, 2010)

woodenbiker said:


> I have milled a lot of wood lately and now I am going to buy a moisture meter and I was wondering if anyone had any sugestions. I want to stay in the $80 - $140 range. The one I have my eye on now ishttp://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2080246/28518/Lignomat-Mini-Ligno-ED-Moisture-Meter.aspx
> If you have any other ideas please let me know.



This meter claims . . . . . . "The Mini-Ligno E/D is a pinned meter with digital readout capable of detecting from as little as 6% up to 55% depending on the wood group selected."

Even with wood group select capability, Vvery few resistivity or pin type meters can measure the moisture content accurately below about 10% or above about 40%. As long as you know this they look OK for the $ invested. The most useful thing about these meters is provided that you are look at the same type of wood they can generally tell you which piece of wood is drier than another


----------



## woodenbiker (Feb 10, 2010)

> Even with wood group select capability, Vvery few resistivity or pin type meters can measure the moisture content accurately below about 10% or above about 40%. As long as you know this they look OK for the $ invested. The most useful thing about these meters is provided that you are look at the same type of wood they can generally tell you which piece of wood is drier than another



So are the pinless meters beter/more acurate?


----------



## BobL (Feb 10, 2010)

woodenbiker said:


> So are the pinless meters beter/more acurate?



In general yes but there probably is some overlap. There some more expensive pin meters that may be more accurate than cheaper pinless.


----------



## TraditionalTool (Feb 10, 2010)

I have a friend that has a Wagner pinless and likes it a lot, but they aren't cheap at $300-$400 depending on the model. Woodcraft has those as well, as I recall, for a couple years now.


----------



## Ted J (Feb 10, 2010)

TraditionalTool said:


> I have a friend that has a Wagner pinless and likes it a lot, but they aren't cheap at $300-$400 depending on the model. Woodcraft has those as well, as I recall, for a couple years now.



and here is a review of the Wagner.
It is the one I have been leaning towards when I get around to buying.

Ted


----------



## BobL (Feb 10, 2010)

Ted J said:


> and here is a review of the Wagner.
> It is the one I have been leaning towards when I get around to buying.
> 
> Ted



This Wagner lumber MC gear is first rate stuff and they have some very interesting products, including probes that can be inserted into stacks of lumber and with data storage etc. All very expensive ie >$500
See www.wagnermeters.com/largelumber.php

Their woodworking gear (of which the 220 is one of the best performers) is more reasonably priced but only covers SG up to 1.0. A lot of Aussie woods have SGs greater than one and they change markedly with drying.

It's interesting to see that the Wagner only claim an accuracy between 5 and 30% for their lumber probes and typically 4 to 22% for their flooring and woodworking probes, which are very reasonable and realistic. It would be unlikely that mosy pin type meters could get near this degree of accuracy.


----------



## redprospector (Feb 10, 2010)

I'm not an expert on moisture meters. (My definition of an expert is someone who thinks they know all there is to know about a given subject, and can't be told or taught anything else) But here's my opinion.

A pinless meter is real hard to beat on planed lumber, but looses some acuracy on rough cut. A pin type meter will leave holes in your finished lumber, but can measure fairly acuratly at different depth's.

One thing to remember when choosing a moisture meter is the more it cost, the better the meter probably is. You are not going to get perfect acuracy in a meter in the $100 to $150 range, but in my opinion the Lignomat is a pretty good little meter in that price range.
If you want real acuracy, you'll have to spend several hundred dollars.

Andy


----------



## TraditionalTool (Feb 11, 2010)

Ted J said:


> and here is a review of the Wagner.
> It is the one I have been leaning towards when I get around to buying.
> 
> Ted


Ted,

Thanks for the link to the review, I haven't read that, but will go read it now.


----------



## Daninvan (Feb 11, 2010)

I have the MT808 from Electrophysics. Has temp and species correction built in.

http://www.electrophysics.on.ca

I prefer the pin type because it can be used to measure the moisture content of wood in a DH kiln as it is drying, without having to open up the kiln. Hammer in a pair of small nails into the board the same distance apart as the meter's pins, run a wire from each nail out of the kiln, then simply connect the meter's pins to the outside ends of the wire whenever you want to test the moisture. Alligator clips are very handy. You can put pairs of nails in several boards and run several pairs of wires out if you wish.

It does give a good relative indication of how the moisture declines over time in the kiln, and also when the boards are at equilibrium. 

It is true that it will leave the pin holes. I normally try to locate these close to an end/edge or some defect that will be cut away anyhow. And you don't need to test the moisture of every board in a stack. It's not a problem for the most part if you don't go pushing it into boards willy-nilly.

I've also heard that these meters are not very accurate at higher moisture levels. But I'm struggling a bit to imagine a scenario where it matters very much if the wood is at 40% or 60% MC?? In either case it's soaking and still a long ways from being ready to use! I guess if you are using a species specific kiln schedule with a wet bulb thermometer you might care.

I agree that it's important to know if the wood is at 7% or 12% because at 7% I'd use it in the shop but at 12% would wait for it to dry more or throw it in the kiln if I was in a hurry. Even the difference between 15% or 20% is not that important because is still can't be used - too wet.

Hope that helps.

Dan


----------



## BobL (Feb 11, 2010)

Daninvan said:


> I have the MT808 from Electrophysics. Has temp and species correction built in.
> 
> http://www.electrophysics.on.ca
> 
> ...



Good post Dan!
I tried to give you a greenie but I have to spread it around a bit more!


----------



## Ted J (Feb 11, 2010)

BobL said:


> This Wagner lumber MC gear is first rate stuff and they have some very interesting products, including probes that can be inserted into stacks of lumber and with data storage etc. All very expensive ie >$500
> See www.wagnermeters.com/largelumber.php
> 
> Their woodworking gear (of which the 220 is one of the best performers) is more reasonably priced but only covers SG up to 1.0. A lot of Aussie woods have SGs greater than one and they change markedly with drying.
> ...



Bob,
As an FYI, WoodMizer sells the Wagner rebadged with a WoodMizer Logo and for $329... 






Althoough they didn't spell Wagner correctly... _Meter, Moisture Waggoner MMC220_

https://www.woodmizer.com/webgateway/OMshopDetail.aspx?category=wlh

Ted


----------



## rayvil01 (Feb 11, 2010)

Fine Woodworking did a piece here recently on Moisture Meters with specific recommendations. You might check that out.

Disclaimer up front: I absolutely need and use a meter. But, I was at Colonial Williamsburg a couple of weeks ago. I got to spend a good amount of time in the Cabinetmakers shop. It was cold and very few people were in town. I asked the guys in the shop about gauging moisture without meters: How did they get by without meters? One guy said that they don't use meters today in the shop. They "test-plane" boards and can tell the moisture content by the shavings and how the plane feels. "Reading shavings" is a required skill. 

Pretty interesting.


----------



## woodenbiker (Feb 12, 2010)

rayvil01 said:


> Fine Woodworking did a piece here recently on Moisture Meters with specific recommendations. You might check that out.
> 
> Disclaimer up front: I absolutely need and use a meter. But, I was at Colonial Williamsburg a couple of weeks ago. I got to spend a good amount of time in the Cabinetmakers shop. It was cold and very few people were in town. I asked the guys in the shop about gauging moisture without meters: How did they get by without meters? One guy said that they don't use meters today in the shop. They "test-plane" boards and can tell the moisture content by the shavings and how the plane feels. "Reading shavings" is a required skill.
> 
> Pretty interesting.



That would be fine but I am setting up a small kiln in my basement so I want a quick easy way to check. I decided to go with the timber check.http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/timbercheckmoisturemeter.aspx
it seemed to be the best pin type meter for the price. 
I went with the pin type for two reasons. one that the pinless have a higher error on rough hewn lumber and since I do a lot of chainsaw milling I will be checking exaclty that most of the time. Two there is a kiln design that has a method for hooking wires up to a piece in the middle of the kiln so you dont need to open the kiln to check progress.
I would like to know how they check the moisture with plane shavings and how that transates to the moisture farther in the piece.

Thanks for all the info guys I apreciate the opinions.

Chris


----------



## rayvil01 (Feb 12, 2010)

Woodenbiker,
My guess is that those guys were/are operating in a whole different space of time/space. They didn't use kilns. They had a formula for how long to air-cure wood. When it met the correct number of years of curing, they'd test it and use it. 

The original guys pit-sawed much of the wood themselves. 

We don't have that kind of patience. 

I say this not one hour removed from barking at a UPS agent because my overnight package is delayed. 

When I say "we," I mean "me."


----------



## BlueRider (Feb 13, 2010)

I milled and used my wood for 10 years before I bought a moisture meter. IT was something I had wanted but by the time I had the money I had a stockpile of wood that was several years old. After a bit of time you develop the feel for telling if wood is dry enough to use by the look and feel of the sawdust as well as the way a freshly cut board feels when you press your lips to it.

A few years ago I bought a Timbercheck pin type meter because I was in the midle of a project made out of wood I knew was dry. I ran short by one board and needed to trade with a friend. The board was going to be a critical part and I needed to know how dry it was, or more acurately I needed to know its moisture level compared to the rest of the wood in the project.

I think this last statement is actualy where the value in a moisture meter lies. Not so much in knowing if the moisture level is 7% or 8% and which is more acurate, but in knowing the level of each board compared to the other boards.

Since having a moisture meter I now know that the wood inside my shop peaks at a maximum moisture level in the late spring of 11-12% and in the late summe/early fall it is at its lowest of about 6-7%. this holds true for wood that is just barely dry, wood that has been inside my shop for 10 years, and for kiln dried wood.


----------

