# Suggestions for a bench chain sharpener



## Woodyjiw (Jun 19, 2017)

I'm really considering the purchase of a chain grinder and would like some suggestions from those of u that own them. I haven't researched them much but I'm not interested in cheap grinders.
I've checked out an Oregon grinder that a friend has but I've never ran it.
What's out there for $300-$400? And please school me a lil on grinders.

Thanks in advance.

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## Bedford T (Jun 19, 2017)

http://www.madsens1.com/sil_round.htm


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 19, 2017)

The Oregon clones work just fine and are $100ish. Pretty much same grinder, without the brand.


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## Woodyjiw (Jun 22, 2017)

I've been looking at some grinders and doing a lil bit of reading. 
Is reverse a handy option on a grinder and is the reason for reverse to be able to grind the opposite tooth without changing things?

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## Tenderfoot (Jun 22, 2017)

I have an Oregon 410-120 which I have been very happy with. Not good for depth gauges, but plenty good for grinding teeth and does a very good job once you get a feel for setting it up and take you time.


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## Woodyjiw (Jun 29, 2017)

Tenderfoot said:


> I have an Oregon 410-120 which I have been very happy with. Not good for depth gauges, but plenty good for grinding teeth and does a very good job once you get a feel for setting it up and take you time.


When u say not good for depth gauges does that mean u can't do them or it's a pita? I was looking at the Oregon 510 or 20 (I don't recall the model number) it said in the description it would do rakers as well.

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## Tenderfoot (Jun 29, 2017)

Woodyjiw said:


> When u say not good for depth gauges does that mean u can't do them or it's a pita? I was looking at the Oregon 510 or 20 (I don't recall the model number) it said in the description it would do rakers as well.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I can do them, and accurately, but it is faster to use a progressive depth gauge. They are not accurate unless you turn the chain 180* because of the offset in them.


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## Philbert (Jun 29, 2017)

Woodyjiw said:


> I'm really considering the purchase of a chain grinder . . . but I'm not interested in cheap grinders.



Get the Oregon 520-120. There is a reason why it is the 'standard' that other grinders are referenced against.

https://oregonproducts.com/pro/products/accessories/accessories_main.htm



Woodyjiw said:


> Is reverse a handy option on a grinder and is the reason for reverse to be able to grind the opposite tooth without changing things?


Most current grinders do not reverse due to UL safety requirements. Not a big deal IMO.

Good quality wheels, dressing the wheels frequently, and taking time to develop skill with the grinder are also important.

Philbert

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511a-grinder-improvements-tweaks.197073/


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## blades (Jun 29, 2017)

The reason for most grinders not having reverse any more is OSHA. Tossing silica and tiny metal chips in your face as you breathe is not good. Even with reverse you still need to adjust for offsets between the cutters - nature of the machine motion. A much cleaner way to run is to purchase a set of the CBN wheels ( about a c note apiece) They will out last the equivalent purchase price of vitrified wheels. With the very high amount of chains I do I wear out the vises ( clamping arrangement) in about 6-7 months - brand doesn't matter ( these are the standard pinch type) that fancy one with movable opposing jaws - would only last about 3 months. I went though 5 of those before I gave up on them. Once the threaded shaft breaks you have buy the whole assembly (about $160) as that shaft has not been available separately. It's a nice vise, idea is great, execution sucks. On the older ( more less standard) pinch type I wear the cams out. Note that the Oregon unit has a screw in the back side of the rails to adjust the starting width( gap) of the rails at the pinch point ( very handy) most of the clones do not have that, the boss is there though so one could add it if mechanically inclined. Just some thoughts off the cuff as it were


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## Philbert (Jun 29, 2017)

blades said:


> With the very high amount of chains I do I wear out the vises . . . that fancy one with movable opposing jaws - would only last about 3 months. . . . On the older ( more less standard) pinch type I wear the cams out.


Sounds like a lotta chains!

Just to keep things straight for the OP:
- The Oregon 511A (and most 'clones') use a cam/pinch type vise;
- The Oregon 511AX (and some Tecomec grinders) used a vise with 'self-centering' jaws;
- The current Oregon 520-120 goes back to a cam/pinch vise, but adds a bracket to squeeze from both sides.

@blades - have you tried (or worn out!) one of these newer vises yet?

Philbert


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## Woodyjiw (Jun 29, 2017)

Thank you very much for the responses! That helps very much..

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## Woodyjiw (Jun 30, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Sounds like a lotta chains!
> 
> Just to keep things straight for the OP:
> - The Oregon 511A (and most 'clones') use a cam/pinch type vise;
> ...


I'm about to pull the trigger on the 520-120 but I found an almost new 620-120 for around $270. I've watched a couple videos of the 620 but I'm a little concerned of the hydraulic clamping. Mostly of it failing and being expensive to fix. 
Any opinion of the 620? 

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## blades (Jun 30, 2017)

Philbert: the 511ax vise is what i gave up on- even with some of the fixes that were/are buried here too costly to have to replace 4 times a year
511a pinch is where I where out cam, it wears into the bar as well as on its pivot. built bar rail back up ( on some you can swap them around) and build up and repair cam ( not perfect but working for now, still a pia) . think the next idea is too use one of those push pull toggle clamps I have a couple pretty small ones laying around that I might be able to rig up using the cam stud area as a mounting point. Just haven't got to it yet. 
Haven't seen the 520-120 assembly 
Most of this in an average use function would not be an issue for many years-


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## Philbert (Jun 30, 2017)

Woodyjiw said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on the 520-120 but I found an almost new 620-120 for around $270. I've watched a couple videos of the 620 but I'm a little concerned of the hydraulic clamping. Mostly of it failing and being expensive to fix.
> Any opinion of the 620?


People who do a lot of chains like the hydraulic feature, and that is a good price if in the condition indicated. I think that there were a few problems with the older versions.

Worst case, I assume (?) that you could pull the hydraulic vise and replace it with a standard vise - one of the advantages of buying a name brand model with parts available.



blades said:


> Philbert: the 511ax vise is what i gave up on. . . 511a pinch is where I where out cam, . . . ( on some you can swap them around) and build up and repair cam ( not perfect but working for now, still a pia) . . . Haven't seen the 520-120 assembly. Most of this in an average use function would not be an issue for many years.



It is helpful to have the input / insight from heavy users like yourself. They should send you grinders / parts just to test them!

I wore the spot in the vise rail of my 511A with only moderate use, and found out that you can reposition them about 4 times (?) before you have to replace them:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511a-grinder-improvements-tweaks.197073/ (Post #53).

There were a lot of comments on the 511AX vise not holding up to heavy use, which why I assume that Oregon redesigned the clamp on the 520-120 (Tecomec still uses the 511AX vise):
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511ax-vise.228345/

The, there is the questions of whether the Silvey 'Faultless Pawls' can be adapted to eliminate the need for clamping each link! At least one member here tried to do this: will post a link if I find it.

Philbert


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## Woodyjiw (Jun 30, 2017)

Philbert said:


> People who do a lot of chains like the hydraulic feature, and that is a good price if in the condition indicated. I think that there were a few problems with the older versions.
> 
> Worst case, I assume (?) that you could pull the hydraulic vise and replace it with a standard vise - one of the advantages of buying a name brand model with parts available.
> 
> ...


Thanks again, I appreciate it. Now I'll see if I can seal the deal.

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## Woodyjiw (Jun 30, 2017)

Well, I missed out on the 620. It sold for more than I was willing to spend. But I did order the 520 and it should be here in about a week. 

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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 30, 2017)

They are around $70 on Amazon.


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## rwoods (Jun 30, 2017)

Just curious, but aren't the Oregon models made by Tecomec?

Ron


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## Philbert (Jun 30, 2017)

rwoods said:


> Just curious, but aren't the Oregon models made by Tecomec?


Yes. But some Oregon models have unique / proprietary features.

Philbert


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## blades (Jul 1, 2017)

fore and aft adjustment of vise assembly to keep grinding wheel centered on cutter- a lot of the knock offs do not have this - not an issue if using the cbn wheels as their diameter does not radically change like a newly dressed vitrified wheel does.


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## Khntr85 (Jul 6, 2017)

Woodyjiw said:


> I'm really considering the purchase of a chain grinder and would like some suggestions from those of u that own them. I haven't researched them much but I'm not interested in cheap grinders.
> I've checked out an Oregon grinder that a friend has but I've never ran it.
> What's out there for $300-$400? And please school me a lil on grinders.
> 
> ...


Hello there....I missed this post somehow....anyway i made the mistake of getting into grinding, (I say this because I now love it).....i got a Oregon 520, and let me say this...IF you put in the time to set it up correctly and take the time to learn how to use it, you CAN absolutely grind chains that cut as well as and out of the box brand new chain...

I was one of these guys that thought grinders were only good for rocked out chains, and that is the reason I got the grinder in the first place...well sure enough I got to using the grinder and just with a little effort I was getting chains that cut really good....well after that I thought, let's push the boundaries here and see what this thing is actually capable of....remember the grinder is only limited to the operators skill level!!!

when using the stone wheels, dress the properly and never let them get the black ring of death, keep fresh abrasive.....on down the road and depending on how fast you go threw wheels you may consider a CBN wheel, but that's another subject entirely, LOL....

Well now I have the Oregon grinder, a Stihl USG, 3-CBN wheels, an actual diamond wheel, (for carbide chains, never even used it yet), and a lot of stone wheels.....I should have listened when I was told that GAD is just as bad as CAD!!!!

Lastly, keep ol @Philbert on your good side, he is VERY knowledgeable on the grinders and VERY helpful!!!!!


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## blades (Jul 6, 2017)

Yep machine tools of one type or another not to mention tooling for same are as bad as cad & fad- Likely worse.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 6, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Hello there....I missed this post somehow....anyway i made the mistake of getting into grinding, (I say this because I now love it).....i got a Oregon 520, and let me say this...IF you put in the time to set it up correctly and take the time to learn how to use it, you CAN absolutely grind chains that cut as well as and out of the box brand new chain...
> 
> I was one of these guys that thought grinders were only good for rocked out chains, and that is the reason I got the grinder in the first place...well sure enough I got to using the grinder and just with a little effort I was getting chains that cut really good....well after that I thought, let's push the boundaries here and see what this thing is actually capable of....remember the grinder is only limited to the operators skill level!!!
> 
> ...



Generally chains out of the box suck as far as being sharpened well. I'd certainly hope a grinder can sharpen that poorly!

We bought 2 new saws and they came with Stihl safety chain. Talk about some absolute crap chain.
I've had to sharpen it 6 times already and I'm only on the 3rd tank of fuel! Just to say cut some silt or a pebble and the chain is done.


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## Khntr85 (Jul 6, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Generally chains out of the box suck as far as being sharpened well. I'd certainly hope a grinder can sharpen that poorly!
> 
> We bought 2 new saws and they came with Stihl safety chain. Talk about some absolute crap chain.
> I've had to sharpen it 6 times already and I'm only on the 3rd tank of fuel! Just to say cut some silt or a pebble and the chain is done.


Sometimes.....I hear people say brand new chain out of the box is bad, not really....i deal with 95% Stihl chain and it usually cuts just fine out of the box.....yes sometimes a roll/loop can be damaged, but as with anything, problems will inevitably happen....i have seen new chains with cutters that looked like they were never sharpened from the factory....

As far as buying a new saw with safety chain, most competent dealers will gladly swap it out with a chain of your choosing....

Now as far as you having to sharpen a chain 6-times, there is definitely a problem here.....the safety chain and regular chain are made from the same material.....with the rakers and chain properly sharpened they will cut....now I know this is a little more work than some want to do, but with any kind of grinder and 5-minutes you can take the "safety" humps out of the chain....and for me personally, i would have ground the humps off to start with and never had to waste time sharpening it 5-6 more times....

If you are consistently getting roles of chain that needs sharpened before using it, I would find another source of chain, time=money....


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## Khntr85 (Jul 6, 2017)

I love it when someone hands me a Stihl safety chain and says this chain absolutely is horrible, I politely agree and take it....when they are gone I fix these chains up and cut stumps or wood that may have foreign materiel in it.....

I will take all of the unwanted safety chain anyone doesn't not want!!!


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## Philbert (Jul 6, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> I love it when someone hands me a Stihl safety chain and says this chain absolutely is horrible, I politely agree and take it....
> 
> I will take all of the unwanted safety chain anyone doesn't not want!!!


_Hey_! Sounds like you are muscling in on my scrounging the territory !!!

Philbert


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## Woodyjiw (Jul 6, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Hello there....I missed this post somehow....anyway i made the mistake of getting into grinding, (I say this because I now love it).....i got a Oregon 520, and let me say this...IF you put in the time to set it up correctly and take the time to learn how to use it, you CAN absolutely grind chains that cut as well as and out of the box brand new chain...
> 
> I was one of these guys that thought grinders were only good for rocked out chains, and that is the reason I got the grinder in the first place...well sure enough I got to using the grinder and just with a little effort I was getting chains that cut really good....well after that I thought, let's push the boundaries here and see what this thing is actually capable of....remember the grinder is only limited to the operators skill level!!!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I'm excited to get it setup and start using it when I get home.

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