# The Art and Science of Moving Brush



## Guy Meilleur (Oct 8, 2004)

As with climbing, a lot of energy can be wasted in the process of moving brush. Inefficiency can lead to less profit to go around, unsafe working conditions and bad vibes on the job. A new groundie may benefit if we share techniques for moving bush.

#1. Move piles, not sticks. The Plains Indians used a travois to move their gear around. It was basically two long sticks on the ground, crossing where the load was to be picked up, and spread wide on the other end. The load gets stacked between these two and that way a lot can be moved with a little effort.

I'm the top climber in my enterprise, but I like moving brush. Any activity done well can be a joy; any activity done poorly is a pain.
Anyone else want to help the struggling newbie from NY by sharing their tricks of the brush-moving trade?


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 8, 2004)

I call that injun two stick thing a 'cradle limb'.


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## John Stewart (Oct 8, 2004)

Draggin brush sucks I agree but you can do it faster. Longer branches on the bottom of the pile and then can drag the whole pile out instead of just one branch in each hand. If the pile is to heavy or wet throw a sling around the pile and hang on to the sling instead of the branches. You will be suprised how much more weight you can pull hangin onto a strap. If your chipper won't eat large stuff , drag it out large anyways and buck it up at the back of the chipper. Less trips out and no sawdust to clean up in the back just behind the chipper 
Later
John


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## ORclimber (Oct 8, 2004)

Take as much as possible without tearing up the landscape. If a limb lands on a shrub, lift it straight up to minimize damage. If working in wet turf try to take different paths so you don't wear a muddy path in the lawn. Take narrower loads through tight spots to prevent damage to paint/fences/ shrubs. If you can move more volume with a tarp or garbage can, use them.


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## rb_in_va (Oct 8, 2004)

How about throwing a tarp down and directing debris towards it. That way you're not handling every single twig.


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## John Stewart (Oct 8, 2004)

Tarps are great but couple of problems they get al ripped up and I get over zealous when loading them and I end up either killin myself draggin it or have to un load some
That sucks!
Later
John


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## Ax-man (Oct 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Guy Meilleur _
> *
> 
> #1. Move piles, not sticks. The Plains Indians used a travois to move their gear around. It was basically two long sticks on the ground, crossing where the load was to be picked up, and spread wide on the other end. The load gets stacked between these two and that way a lot can be moved with a little effort.
> ...


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## John Ellison (Oct 8, 2004)

One mule pulling an old car hood.  Have two hoods so one can be loaded while the other is unloaded. Less effort, and lots more fun.

John


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## DDM (Oct 8, 2004)

SkidSteer With a grapple Bucket.


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## Guy Meilleur (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: Re: The Art and Science of Moving Brush*



> _Originally posted by Ax-man _
> *[QUOTE Guy, your forgetting one thing with this method, the horse. I don't think anyone here has the strength or remotely even cares to play the horses role using this method. *


I do; I do it all the time. Note I'm talking about sticks, not logs. "Playing the horse" is not demeaning at all; it builds stamina (which a good climber needs) and moves large quantities with less effort.

Great ideas for the sawboss folks; keep em coming!


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## Proj Eng (Oct 8, 2004)

I'm sure evryone knows this one but instead of putting limbs in all the way to the feed wheels or cutting area of the chipper, put a bunch in at once and keep feeding the hungry chipper with longer branches. Shorter branches on longer ones so it's one continuous discharge of chips. Only the big material should slow it down, and also give you enough time to go get more. Plus save one long limb for the end so you don't have to clean out the hopper. Though jammed chippers could be one of the biggest hold ups, so avoid that. I'm sure with time each person learns the machines capabilities and avoids the hang ups.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 8, 2004)

http://www.***************/groundman.htm


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## Guy Meilleur (Oct 8, 2004)

Thanks Butch! I just printed out a copy and it's going into the glovebox. Next time there's a need to I'll highlight the relevant section and make sure it's reread.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 8, 2004)

Hey Guy, I guess you didn't see this thread? I went back and saw that you didn't comment, so maybe you haven't seen it. Towards the end Glen presents it as a cool zip file that you where you can turn the document into a neat booklet form. Check it out!

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14578


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## Dadatwins (Oct 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *
> When the climber makes his last cut, grab the tarps and get them to the chipper. *



Don't forget to have them folded and ready to spread out at the next 12 trees for after lunch. 

MB thread on being a good groundman covered everything anyone needs to know about dragging brush and keeping the jobsite safe and cleaned up.


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## NeTree (Oct 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Guy Meilleur _
> *I'm the top climber in my enterprise, *



According to who?


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## Tom Dunlap (Oct 8, 2004)

I DO!

Do ya wanna make sumpin' of it? 

Guy's a one-horse op so he has seniority, or is that senioritis?

Tom


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## NeTree (Oct 8, 2004)




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## Gypo Logger (Oct 8, 2004)

I'm the top brush mover around here and don't anybody forget it!
Ease of removal has alot to do with the size and where the limbs were cut. If larger limb are viewed as small trees, then the larger body wood should be processed immediately or dragged/ carried or javelined to where they will end up. Also if the terminal branches of the limb are nipped off at a "Y", then several can be hooked on the wrist, keeping the hands free for more litter. The trick is to make as few pieces as possible with the smaller stuff. Anything that is good for fuelwood should be processed then and there on the job site unless a truck with a grapple is handy. So there!
John the Groundie


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## Dadatwins (Oct 8, 2004)

Ummmmm? I never quite thought about brush draggin like that, thanks for making that much clearer.<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_2v.gif' border=0></a>


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## a_lopa (Oct 8, 2004)

i use this draw string for final pick up,think youll like it Guy,


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 8, 2004)

So many people underestimate the power of the rake, when applied properly.


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## John Stewart (Oct 8, 2004)

Easy Butch that is a 4 lettered word, you trying to get banned!


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## NickfromWI (Oct 8, 2004)

Hey Guy, I guess I didn't tell you about the book I want to write. I've spoken to sharon lily and she said she liked the idea: The Art and Science of Practical Dragging."

Basically it'd cover all the things that a new grounder would need to know.

love
nick


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## Frans (Oct 8, 2004)

Dont overlook PROPER BRUSH STACKING!
Feather the brush so each pile/branch can be seperated easily for feeding into the chipper
Frans


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## NickfromWI (Oct 8, 2004)

Here's a technique I developed quickly at the Care of Trees and still use today. When stacking branches, the most important one is the one on the bottom. Look for one that flairs out like a fan (or now that I am in CA, "like a palm frond"). Set that one down, then proceed to set others down on top of it. But don't just set them on top. Force then down so that the twigs get intertwined and lock together causing the pile to become one unit. Stack it to your desired size then you can often grab the butt end of the bottom fanned-out limb and just pull that, though in less perfect situations you'll need to grab more to keep things together. 

I like to stack my piles to the size that I can toss the whole pile into the chipper. Bigger the chipper, the bigger the pile.

When I get to the chipper, if there is someone there already feeding it, set the stack down and go get more. When they are done, they can feed what you left. I've been on jobs and seen 4 or 5 guys all standing around the chipper while one guy struggles with a stuck piece of brush in the infeed chute. 4 guys waiting. Waste of time. I know it's best not to pick stuff up more than once, but waiting is worse.

Don't put one big pile near the chipper. Frans said to feather it out so that it can be separated. I like to just make many small piles that one person can walk to, pick up, and throw in the chipper, rather than sorting out a bigger pile and trying to grab the right amount.

That's it for now. I hated dragging brush when I started. I did all in my power to lessen its effect on me.

love
nick


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 8, 2004)

I don't believe in the 'bunch of piles' method, Nick. I can 'windrow' a complete tree in one well-organized stack for the chipper to back up to. Logs/chunks on one side(or at the bottom, under the brush), and the windrowed brush on the other.

I use your method for dragging the piles up to the chipper, either by hand or a chipper-mounted winch.

The sweeter you stack it, the sweeter it chips. 


And, whatcha posting bmp attachments fer?


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## ORclimber (Oct 8, 2004)

I'm a bunch of armload size piles guy. Seems like the big piles get tangled and need to be untangled then fed one stick at a time.


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## NeTree (Oct 8, 2004)

How about stacking from back to front instead of vice-sersa... one of my pet peeves.

Nothing sucks more than seeing a nice neat brush row... stacked wrong.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 8, 2004)

Here's a versatile tool for low-impact, high-volume 'dragging' of brush. This was great in getting the brush out of a deep backyard, through a gate and to the chipper out front (Oh how we love that!)
 
This was the first day I had the tool on the job. I hired a Pakistani woman who just wanted to work outside for a day or two. I told her that her job would be as a new gear tester.

This 113 lb woman of academics did great in stacking and hauling out brush. Here she is hauling out a stack, alone, an amount twice that which I might drag by hand on her very first 'drag'. She said it was easy. Atta girl!


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## Tree Machine (Oct 8, 2004)

David showed up later that day and really stacked it on.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 9, 2004)

Side rails come off...


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## Tree Machine (Oct 9, 2004)

End of the line.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 9, 2004)

*Wow!*

That's different!


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## ORclimber (Oct 9, 2004)

Wow. That thing looks a lot bigger with a person standing next to it than it did in the mailer.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 9, 2004)

So, how do ya pack that thing around from job to job?


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## TimberMcPherson (Oct 9, 2004)

I use an old elasticated towing strop with a hook on one end, you cant tie up a big bundle, sinch it and carry it with more of the load off the ground and less dragging, therefore less lost on steps and you can move faster. 
Another thing I have been using lately is my beloved chainsaw winch and a hand cart (like the big one you see in the sherrill catalog carrying a big log.) kinda looks like this (the O being the wheel)
I
I
I
I
O___


If you have a long relatively straight drag on ground without steps this works a beauty. First lay the cart down (not standing up like youd usually use it) with the wheel end facing the chainsaw winch (which is anchored as close to the chipper as you can) Load it up with the stub ends against the base plate, load up alot (we were moving up to about 300lbs of macrocarpa at a time). It gets kinda mess but once youve got a 4 to 5 foot high and 3 foot wide load run strop around it, sinch it around the load and handle bar of the cart and then attact to cable of winch. One guy has to operate the winch and one has to kinda guide the cart but your moving many times in one go what you could usually carry and it saves you alot of dragging and less dragged dirt through the chipper.


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## rahtreelimbs (Oct 9, 2004)

We did a medium sized Black Cherry removal a few summers ago. The people who owned the house were very anal and protective about the landscape. They hold garden parties during the summer. I found the best way to remove brush on this job was to carry the brush over my head. I know this is a difficult way of doing this but it was the only way to keep from tearing up the landscape.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 9, 2004)

I woulda passed on _that_ job, Rich.


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## Guy Meilleur (Oct 9, 2004)

Over-the-head bush carrying is a key talent if you want to be invited back to formal landscape$$. I like a long sling to squeeze the piles narrow. Same burrito-shaped formation works well for feeding into a little chipper.

Senioritis, ha ha ha.

Art & Science of Practical Dragging? Could be a best-seller, but I'm not sure about that title...

NYSawBoss, take all this input to heart and mind, ok? After a few months of learning this Art and Science, you'll be a better climber. How? By handling tree parts on the ground, you are learning more about how trees are put together.

Every twig tells a story, don't it?


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## John Ellison (Oct 9, 2004)

TM, Thats a nice cart. Is it towable? Did you build it?

John


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## Tree Machine (Oct 9, 2004)

It is towable, and comes with a pintle hookup. I am thinking more along the line of towing it with a lawn tractor. I'll bet you could stack the entire crown of a tree on in one load and 'drive' it out. Puts an entirely new spin on dragging quantity brush out of back yards. 

It is called the 'Gate Arch' because it is designed to move logs, chunked wood or brush, 
_en masse_ with less physical energy, low impactness to property... , basically less trips back and forth, but through a standard-width gate

I have yet to REALLY put this thing to the test, like a 3 or 4 meter high pile of brush chokered down.

We learned a cool technique on day one. Wheel the huge pile of brush off to one side of the infeed chute, remove the inner side rails, tip the arch over and pull it out sideways. That puts all the brush right in front of the infeed chute and frees up the Gate Arch to head back to the zone. 

When the second load is wheeled up behind the first load, then it's time to fire up the chipper.


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## Ax-man (Oct 9, 2004)

TM,

Your brush mover is exactly what I had in my mind to build ( some day) It was good to see a picture of it, with a few extras I hadn't thought of. It took me two years to get around to fabricating our log dolly, this project will probaly take me five years to finish.  

Larry


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## ORclimber (Jan 8, 2005)

Inspired by this thread picked up a gate arch. Turned what would have been 10 drags into 1 on the first job. 10 drags would have trashed the customers rain saturated lawn. It attaches to a pivoting receiver hitch on my chuck n duck for one man loading.


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## jason j ladue (Jan 10, 2005)

hey ORclimber, whats the name of your outfit? your truck and neighborhood look familiar. just trying to put a name w/a face. maybe make a few more connections...


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## jason j ladue (Jan 10, 2005)

handling brush is as key to a job as the skills of whomever is doing the cutting/climbing. it can make you look bad on a good day if the. or good on a bad day...


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## jason j ladue (Jan 10, 2005)

it is difficult for a climber to look better than the guy on the ground. if you have a guy kicking a$$ on the ground it is easier to focus on what has to be done in the tree.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 10, 2005)

netree said:


> According to who?



I'll vote for him too, watching the little [strike]old[/strike] guy *shimmy* up a stem to recrotch made me tired.

I can still hear him kvetch about me taking too long setting a third line on a job...I had one in tree two, Oxmans up in tree one and the third line for me to go up tree one to help Ox in tree one was taking me 20 min...then he said he would have had to had spikes on to get where i went 

Hey Guy, do you need any help with the crown restorations? I broke my foot a week ago but may be ready to climb in February.


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## huskycandoit (Jan 10, 2005)

I help my brother when he works for a tree service and the groundies that work for his company are in there 40s and they like to stack brush on a tarp about an 8' by 8'. Then they have about a 3' rope with a beaner on the end of it, and they clip into a gramet hole and then they drag it to the chipper. But I dont know if you wanna go through the hassel of carring tarps around and buying them every few months.


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## glens (Jan 10, 2005)

little &lt;s&gt;old&lt;/s&gt; guy = little <s>old</s> guy, but only in the forums here that allow HTML code


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## Tree Machine (Jan 11, 2005)

*I enjoy mine.*



GICON said:


> How come no ones mentioned Chippers with Winches?



Check it out.

If you bundle the end of a loaded tarp, and put a choker on ot, you can skid the entire tarp right up to the mouth of the chipper. Most excellent.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 11, 2005)

glens said:


> little &lt;s&gt;old&lt;/s&gt; guy = little <s>old</s> guy, but only in the forums here that allow HTML code



Thanks Glenn,

I tried the vB code with the /s and it was not recognized, so i tried one more thing and skipped it.


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## murphy4trees (Jan 11, 2005)

I'd be careful weighting the tail of that chipper.... though the weight is close to the axle, so it will probably not be a problem.... you'll know the tail is too heavy the first time that chipper starts fishtailing...... not pretty... happenned to me once with a can of rakings....


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## glens (Jan 11, 2005)

de nada, JPS


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## ORclimber (Jan 11, 2005)

Jasin, Rhodies to Redwood Tree Care. Give me a call if you want to talk trees.


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## ORclimber (Jan 11, 2005)

Murphy, The 4500lb chipper is doing fine with the extra couple hundred pounds. I plan on adding an alpine magnum to the other side to balance things out  . Nice to know you care :angel:


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## jason j ladue (Jan 12, 2005)

ORclimber, whats your name for if i call. pm me if you like. im (kinda) lookin for work if you have any need for an extra climber... have been trying self-employment, but it aint easy  can show you some pics if you like -jason


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## jason j ladue (Jan 12, 2005)

sorry about the huge images


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 12, 2005)

Another use for a winch on the chipper is for repositioning in tight spaces. I've seen a guy use his to pull the chipper sideways instead of jockying the truck around.


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## Tree Machine (Jan 12, 2005)

like....?


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 12, 2005)

That is a most unusual chipper, but it goes with the chipper truck!


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## Tree Machine (Jan 12, 2005)

> Wow, a nuclear powered chipper! I've never seen one of them before.



It used to be nuclear, but in favor of enviromentalism, I converted it over to a new power source.

Inside the back of the truck is a big biofermentation tank (OK, it's a <i>still</i>). The chips get blown in there where they are enzymatically converted into ethyl alcohol. The vodka gets piped to the fuel tanks for the truck, and into a 5 gallon can for the chipper.

I get home at night with a full load of chips. In the morning, there is an empty chip bed, and my fuel tanks are full.

The nuclear version chipper had quite a bit more power (500 megatons more), but I had to go dump chips daily. It was a trade-off.


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## glens (Jan 12, 2005)

To all who don't know Jim, it will clear up a lot of things if you realize his grandfather on his mother's side was Mr. Haney, from Hooterville.


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## Tree Machine (Jan 13, 2005)

Don't be talkin bad 'bout <A HREF=http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/PersonDetail/personid-8162> my Kin</A>


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## blackwaterguide (Jan 15, 2005)

I love atv's. Motorized mules.


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