# Advice on climbing a leaning tree



## freekiezeek (Jan 29, 2007)

I've got a red maple, in apparent good health, about a 14" trunk and maybe 40-45 ft. tall, but it leans out over my pole barn at 10-15 degrees. I could use the extra sunlight back there and I'm afraid a storm's going to blow it over one of these days and ruin the barn. I'm used to working with chainsaws, gas and electric, and I plan to climb it with spikes/belt and strap, at least to top it out first and then cut the trunk down in short sections to avoid the roof. I plan on practicing the climb several times first but is there any advice out there for working in a leaning tree? It seems that staying on the high side might make the lean back on the strap difficult, is the underside the way to go up and then move around to a side to work? Thanks for any advice.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 29, 2007)

freekiezeek said:


> I could use the extra sunlight back there and I'm afraid a storm's going to blow it over one of these days and ruin the barn.


Statisticly, a leaning tree is no more likely to fail than one that grows straight. And by the time the wind blows the tree over, I'd guess the barn would be gone.
But then you need the sunlight, and those dang trees just suck the oxygen out of the air anyway, so cut the stupid tree down.
It's your first time on spikes, I can't think of a thing that could go wrong, except if you cut your extension cord...


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## Timberhauler (Jan 29, 2007)

freekiezeek said:


> I've got a red maple, in apparent good health, about a 14" trunk and maybe 40-45 ft. tall, but it leans out over my pole barn at 10-15 degrees. I could use the extra sunlight back there and I'm afraid a storm's going to blow it over one of these days and ruin the barn. I'm used to working with chainsaws, gas and electric, and I plan to climb it with spikes/belt and strap, at least to top it out first and then cut the trunk down in short sections to avoid the roof. I plan on practicing the climb several times first but is there any advice out there for working in a leaning tree? It seems that staying on the high side might make the lean back on the strap difficult, is the underside the way to go up and then move around to a side to work? Thanks for any advice.



I always climb a leaning tree on the backside if the lean.It makes for an easier climb.If you try and climb against the lean,it will be tough.As a rule of thumb,I never go up any higher in a hardwood than where the trunk is bigger in diameter than about four inches,but that usually depends on the situation.Without standing under the tree myself,it would be hard to give much sound advice.If I were you,I might consider getting an experienced climber to look at the tree with you and give you better advice.Just about any experienced climber on here will probably tell you the same thing.Another factor is that when cutting the top of a leaning tree,the cut mest be made just right,otherwise it can bend back as the top is falling and "slingshot".That is not an experience you want on a first climb


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## M.D. Vaden (Jan 29, 2007)

When there is no emergency, sometimes it's nice to wait for summer if there is room to get a lift or bucket to those kinds of trees.


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## minderaser66 (Jan 29, 2007)

try tying into a tree above it or even tie into 1 tree on each side of it. this should allow you to safely work on the leaner without worrying about slipping or your spikes kicking out. works like a charm , if theres other trees around.
hope this helps , be safe!


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## mpatch (Jan 29, 2007)

is there room to put a rope in it and pull it over away from the barn??? 
(this normally should be judged by someone with a lot of experience)


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 30, 2007)

i'm with MM. It would be most proper to assess the risk more reallistically.

Look at the lean and the opposite as a loaded axis; then inspect the security of the tension/pull roots on the opposing lean side and the buttressing/pushing roots on the lean side. The healthier and stouter they do their job, the safer barn is. Wulke even went so far as to say; that a pure vertical tree would have more chance of failure in wind or splitting a codom; than a slight lean. That with no lean they didn't get fully exercised to respond with good rooting etc. And the most drastic, impacting change in loading would be from Zer0 to the fist few degrees of lean.

It is your tree, but also walking up the staircase of lean from the top side is best if you go up; as previously stated unless SRT up. And quiet frankly if you have to ask that; there are so many other things to know; we could be setting you up for death or injury; answering any more questions!!


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## Husky137 (Jan 30, 2007)

Make sure to lean the other way or the tree might fall over.


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## winchman (Jan 30, 2007)

*consult a certified arborist*

would be my advice. if you haven't worked on spikes before, you shouldn't start with a chainsaw, on a leaning tree, over valuable property. my first time on spikes was over six years ago, and i still on occasion kick out with one or the other leg. red maples don't allow deep climber penetration, especially at the 14" dbh that you mentioned, and you are likely to find this out the hard way even with the practice runs you mentioned.
no matter how easy gaffs make our work look, to the inexperienced climber, they are not for everyone. they take a lot of practice, and give beginners a sense of false security. call a certified arborist for an opinion (usually free) on whether the tree needs to come down at all, and furthermore, to do the work for you before you hurt yourself.
this is all supposing that you haven't spiked before, which you might have, and in that case, sorry for the advice. good luck.


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## beowulf343 (Jan 30, 2007)

freekiezeek said:


> I'm used to working with chainsaws, gas and electric,



Are you used to working with saws 40 feet in the air? 



freekiezeek said:


> at least to top it out first and then cut the trunk down in short sections to avoid the roof.



???? How do you plan on doing this? Do you know how to rope? Do you the know the cuts to make so that you can hang your saw and then handle the piece?

How did this end up in commercial tree anyway?


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## Dadatwins (Jan 30, 2007)

freekiezeek said:


> is the underside the way to go up and then move around to a side to work?



Welcome to the site, please have someone video tape this procedure as I am interested on how you do this also, it sounds easy enough. 

That said, 3 words - Yellow pages, please


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## Tim Krause (Jan 30, 2007)

*leaner*

call a pro!!! it won't be as expensive as your headstone


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## Magnum783 (Jan 30, 2007)

I with the rest. I knew what I was doing had some experiance and still ended up in the hospital. Let alone if it was my first time and had little to no experiance. Please do you and your family a favor and call a pro. At least for advice. Then if you still must get the book THE TREE CLIMBERS COMPANION not a complete gospel on climbing but should give you some good advice and know how. Good luck if you try it.
Jared


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## freekiezeek (Jan 30, 2007)

*Thanks to all.*

You are all obviously much more experienced in this matter than I am and I do appreciate the time you've taken to lend advice, and your concern for my safety (high on my priorities as well). If I do attempt this, still undecided, I'll definitely look into it more and hire it out if I feel outmatched by the tree, which is entirely possible. My apologies if this post was placed into a forum area suited to more commercial work and not newbie questions. 
One last note, to Mike Maas, don't trees typically suck in CO 2 and give off oxygen, this side of the Mississippi at least?
Cheers.


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## mpatch (Jan 30, 2007)

dont climb up the back side!! and if you do good luck getting back around esp. since you are a virgin!!!


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## 046 (Jan 30, 2007)

don't do this for your first job in the air. start low and slow...

find a pro to do this! don't get killed... we are not trying to be mean, just don't want see you in the headlines. 



freekiezeek said:


> You are all obviously much more experienced in this matter than I am and I do appreciate the time you've taken to lend advice, and your concern for my safety (high on my priorities as well). If I do attempt this, still undecided, I'll definitely look into it more and hire it out if I feel outmatched by the tree, which is entirely possible. My apologies if this post was placed into a forum area suited to more commercial work and not newbie questions.
> One last note, to Mike Maas, don't trees typically suck in CO 2 and give off oxygen, this side of the Mississippi at least?
> Cheers.


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## Tree Machine (Jan 30, 2007)

freekiezeek said:


> Mike said:
> 
> 
> > those dang trees just suck the oxygen out of the air anyway, so cut the stupid tree down.
> ...


Yea, Mike....explain why the cutting down of the dang stupid oxygen-sucking trees is good. In the meantime, freakie, does your tree lean like this? Sometimes a tree has such a lean as to present a hazard to structures and human life. In that case, it is decided, for safety sake, that the tree must come down. *We hate losing the tree*, but in being able to 100% predict that a tree will continue to get bigger, the _perceived risk_ from the homeowner, or neighbors, keeps growing over time. Paranoia becomes a way of life whenever the wind blows strong and the clients move their childredn to a far room whenever there's a weather alert. With a leaner, the people just wonder when it's going to topple. It may, it may not. But the fear is always there, so if you don't take it down, someone else is going to. We can not predict if or if not a tree will fall. Risk is ultimately the tree owner's call.


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## Tree Machine (Jan 30, 2007)

Here's a couple more shots.


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## Blinky (Jan 31, 2007)

I haven't been doing this all that long but it seems to me, the FIRST thing you need is an educated assessment of how much risk the tree poses... assuming shade alone isn't a death warrant. For that you should get a consult from an experienced arborist.

It sounds like a nice tree to me, 10 -15 degrees isn't a huge amount of lean if the roots are adapting and healthy. If it was mine and judged to be safe, I'd keep it.

15 degrees is, however, just enough lean that you will find it tricky to balance on gaffs and keep your lanyard adjusted right, and start the saw, and make a kerf... and then a backcut... hmmm, your gonna want a tie in point above you on another tree, two with an angle between them would be better. Your also looking at having your rigging point below the cut which is not favorable for your first technical takedown; without a skilled ground person you're likely to take a few rough rides as you piece it out, maybe get jerked off the gaffs; your legs and feet will be at risk too. Really beefy equipment that isn't made for handling that sort of dynamic loading could still fail... a 4' section, 9" in dia. will weigh nearly 100 pounds. Think about dropping 100 pounds and stopping it cold after the slack runs out... it's a real jolt. Rigging down hardwoods usually includes a few surprises too, that's why there is such an emphasis on safety in the tree care business... you have to be prepared.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but you should get some knowledgable help. Best of luck, whatever you decide.


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## treeseer (Jan 31, 2007)

Jim I like your post but I think something is missing.



Tree Machine said:


> *We hate losing the tree*, but in being able to 100% predict that a tree will continue to get bigger, the _perceived risk_ from the homeowner, or neighbors, keeps growing over time. ... But the fear is always there, so if you don't take it down, someone else is going to.



What about risk mitigation? A tree will lean a lot less, and people will worry a lot less, if its sprawl is reduced. Shorten or remove the limbs that contribute most to the imbalance, and the tree is safer. Let the owner see that there are no or few aggravating defects, and that you will be there to inspect it regularly, and the kids can stay in their rooms when the wind blows, and the tree can stay to provide all those benefits.

Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to calculate and clearly communicate to the owners the risk associated with their tree, and what they can do about it. “Risk” means danger, the possibility of suffering loss. The reality is, everything carries risk. A “defect” has been defined as a visible sign that a tree has the potential to fail. However, since every tree has the potential to fail, the questions of how visible, and how much potential, remain. Any harmless feature of a tree that looks unfamiliar to the inexperienced observer can be called a defect that creates a “hazard tree”, defined as a tree with an unacceptable level of risk to a target. The question is, what can be done about it? All risks can be lowered (abated, mitigated, lessened), but when arboricultural options are not carefully considered and clearly communicated, the owners cannot make an informed decision. Quickly labeling “defects” and “hazards” can lead to the needless removal of valuable trees, when more conservative actions may have been more reasonable.


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## treevet (Jan 31, 2007)

Some trees are verymisleading given their size in relation to the degree of difficulty. Looks like you have already been up this tree by the fresh stub. You mention nothing of the wires running thru and beside it. You say you will avoid the roof by cutting small pieces. lHow are you going to avoid gravity? You mention nothing of pullies of lines or wraps or assistant. If I were to take this tree out I d put my bucket and crane on it. If I could only get one thing to it I would put the crane on it and do the usual tie into the hook, go above the piece set a choker, come down the climbing line and "buck in" and piece it down. Not to be condescending however you asked advice on climbing this tree, ans. Do not do it. The tree should be removed IMO bcs of the location and not the lean. It can be climbed and rigged down but by an experienced climber. I d take a look at it if as I think you are in the Cinci virginity (sp). Maybe put in a nice serviceberry or something small maturing after the stump is ground. My name is Dave Shaw and it s in the cinci book.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Feb 1, 2007)

freekiezeek said:


> One last note, to Mike Maas, don't trees typically suck in CO 2 and give off oxygen, this side of the Mississippi at least?
> Cheers.



What gas is needed, in soil pore spaces, for roots to survive?
When a leaf, stem, or any part of a tree dies, what gas is consumed by the organisms that decompose it?


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## jmack (Feb 1, 2007)

freekiezeek said:


> I've got a red maple, in apparent good health, about a 14" trunk and maybe 40-45 ft. tall, but it leans out over my pole barn at 10-15 degrees. I could use the extra sunlight back there and I'm afraid a storm's going to blow it over one of these days and ruin the barn. I'm used to working with chainsaws, gas and electric, and I plan to climb it with spikes/belt and strap, at least to top it out first and then cut the trunk down in short sections to avoid the roof. I plan on practicing the climb several times first but is there any advice out there for working in a leaning tree? It seems that staying on the high side might make the lean back on the strap difficult, is the underside the way to go up and then move around to a side to work? Thanks for any advice.


yo freakie! i would tell you to stop by and ask a pro to put it on da ground for you, but you already recieved that advice, why not rent a jlg lift platform they usually deliver to the site and show you how to operate it, they have rubber tires, so you can drive right to the tree


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## feller (Feb 1, 2007)

*Dont be a fool.*



freekiezeek said:


> I've got a red maple, in apparent good health, about a 14" trunk and maybe 40-45 ft. tall, but it leans out over my pole barn at 10-15 degrees. I could use the extra sunlight back there and I'm afraid a storm's going to blow it over one of these days and ruin the barn. I'm used to working with chainsaws, gas and electric, and I plan to climb it with spikes/belt and strap, at least to top it out first and then cut the trunk down in short sections to avoid the roof. I plan on practicing the climb several times first but is there any advice out there for working in a leaning tree? It seems that staying on the high side might make the lean back on the strap difficult, is the underside the way to go up and then move around to a side to work? Thanks for any advice.


Dont be a fool.


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## Tree Machine (Feb 2, 2007)

All good, valid advice from all of us, anywhere from 'Don't be a fool' and 'Don't even attempt it' to 'Get a platform lift'. Basically, a noob shouldn't be climbing a technical tree, especially with a chainsaw.

After just having finished that tall leaner a few posts ago, I would say, don't do it. Leaners present special problems, especially over a structure.


On the one below (same tree as previous posts), we have been mitigating that tree for close to 8 years. For the former owner, I had pointed out the dramatic lean and suggested a south-side selective limb removal, partial reduction. That helped quite a bit. Then last year, new folks moved in. This past Summer, I pulled a buckeye limb off the house in the front yard, that tree would be subsequently removed. Then one of the two trees in the back, a tall hickory, came down in a storm last Summer, taking out the primary line and power to a couple blocks of neighbors.

...then, there's one tree left in back, a major league leaner, ten steps from the one that recently fell. It still leans toward the south neighbor's house, but whereas 8 years ago it would have _just_ hit the house, now, since the new owners put a new addition on back there, as well as brand new roof on the garage directly below the tree.... Those sorts of things, as treeseer puts so well, we as arborists need to assess risk, and save trees when we can. This one became a legitimate risk. It sucked to take it down. Other than the lean, it was a beautiful tree.

And to Mike Maas, great response on the oxygen thing. Even through a blanket of thick sarcasm, you still manage to slip in a biology lesson.


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## 046 (Feb 2, 2007)

freekiezeek, fair warning!!! some advice given on this site of full of BS and will get you killed!

unfortunately.... to use huge amount of information on AS, requires learning what's BS and what's real. 

for instance leaner's or tree growing at an angle will barber chair. coming back at you with a unpredictable angle, possibly killing you. unlikely a beginner would know this information.

a beginner has no business doing a difficult first job. start low and slow. 
let this one go.....


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## adam (Feb 3, 2007)

freekiezeek said:


> You are all obviously much more experienced in this matter than I am and I do appreciate the time you've taken to lend advice, and your concern for my safety (high on my priorities as well). If I do attempt this, still undecided, I'll definitely look into it more and hire it out if I feel outmatched by the tree, which is entirely possible. My apologies if this post was placed into a forum area suited to more commercial work and not newbie questions.
> One last note, to Mike Maas, don't trees typically suck in CO 2 and give off oxygen, this side of the Mississippi at least?
> Cheers.



Follow Tim's advice and you'll find out that you placed your post in the best area possible. Leaning red maples suck (in CO2) even in Canada.


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## freekiezeek (Feb 3, 2007)

*Still listening...*

I hear you all. My first action on the leaner, if any, would be to remove a couple lower limbs that grow from the "lean towards" side and hang out over the barn. They aren't too large and can be removed piecemeal with a pole pruner and patience. That will reduce weight to that side. Fortunately the tree is not as large as the photos posted, nor as close to the building. A very similarly sized & situated tree (same species) about 15-20 feet away did come down about two years ago in an ice storm. Also a leaner, it fortunately only took out a bit of old fence and landed in mostly open back yard. Inspecting it's base, it appeared to have some unseen rot issues starting and had cracked off near ground level. I'm not aware of any rot in the tree in question, but seeing as I have plenty trees back there, if I do have it removed, I won't be heartbroken. There's numerous trees that succumb to competition every year and provide me with firewood, the others thrive and continue to grow. Don't get me wrong, I love trees and have been planting them (and watching the natives grow) ever since I bought this place 16 years ago. 
And yes, I concede, Mike Maas is technically right. Since carbon dioxide is 2/3 oxygen, trees are definitely sucking it up, storing the carbon, and pumping back out some sweet free oxygen for us. The bacteria and fungi that are recycling the decaying wood certainly use oxygen as well, but they aren't a tree.


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## hornett22 (Feb 3, 2007)

*sounds like trouble to me.*

i agree,just because it's leaning doesn't mean it's going to fall or blow over.i think you should hire a professional.it's not worth the risk.


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## Curtis James (Feb 4, 2007)

I just finished removing a leaner. It was a silver maple and when I decided to pull the spar over I didn't even think about my bobcat sitting on ice in the ally. it was just spinning and the leaning tree wasn't even budging. My notch was kinda ugly to cause my saw wasn't all that sharp. It came down fine after we shovled some gravel under the tires and I told my cousin who was operating the machine to increase the throttle. I was alittle nervouse though. so whatever you do be safe.


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## adam (Feb 5, 2007)

*helium baloons*

whole bunch of guys (including myself) advise you to hire a pro...but you actually asked very challenging question; "How the guy with no experience can remove safely a leaning tree from above his barn?" That made me thinking (painful process, at least in my case) and thats, what I came up with: Buy yourself helium baloons for $15K (baloons for $1500 could lift some guy, I've seen it on TV, 15K should be enough for your maple) hook'em up to the top of your tree, cut this damn thing at the base and watch it fly away. If you advertise your removal aggresively, money from selling tickets, live TV, commercials and such should not only pay for helium baloons but also leave you with some profit. And once military catches your flying mapel on their radar screens you"ll have a free airshow. And please don't thank me, just send me two free tickets for my kids.


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## Tree Machine (Feb 6, 2007)

Ha ha ha haha, giggle giggle, snicker.

Snort.

A one-cut taketown, er, take-up? Take off. 

Arborists, please clear the tarmac. We have _Acer_ flight 15K ready for takeoff....


You crack me up, Adam.


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## feller (Feb 6, 2007)

*Successfully climbing a leaning tree*



Husky137 said:


> Make sure to lean the other way or the tree might fall over.


Also, remember to throw down some of your gear as you get higher and higher. This will reduce your weight as you near the top.


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## Tree Machine (Feb 6, 2007)

feller said:


> Also, remember to throw down some of your gear as you get higher and higher. This will reduce your weight as you near the top.



You and Alan make quite the comedy team.


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## adam (Feb 7, 2007)

Tree Machine said:


> You and Alan make quite the comedy team.



My neighbor decided to drop a willow leaning over his barn. He hooked up steel cable to his tractor, other guy cut the tree while he was pulling. Cable was too short, willow came down crushing his tractor (he survived and everybody called him "Lumberjack" since). Other guy ( I barely knew him) decided to cut down a tree, stem pushed chaisaw against his chest (he did'nt survive).Why
people who call electricians, plumbers and roofers decide to cut their trees themselves or you hear "What? 500 bucks? my window cleaner told me 100 and case of beer". Sorry, nothing funny this time (you should see this tractor, that was funny).


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## Tree Machine (Feb 7, 2007)

Show this one to Mr. Lumberjack


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## adam (Feb 7, 2007)

Thats too much, even for me.


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## Treeman587 (Feb 14, 2007)

Why are people so cheap when it comes to this? There is a equipment rental place near me that will rent you a set of climbing gear for $25!!!!!!!!!!! I found this out because I was there when a guy was renting it. I asked him if that tree was worth his life. Told him you have to know how to use gaffs, it takes time. Most fools don't even have the confidence to lean back the first time. Screw it, Let all these people cut their own trees, Don't try to stop them. When they are on the news with a tree laying in their house, or are DEAD, We will get more calls.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 19, 2007)

*leaner*

What about guying the tree to protect barn from failure
If tree becomes ice covered it will help support load or in the event
it becomes failed it should swing out of harms way


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## spongygumz (Feb 19, 2007)

*Laening tree*

My advice ,as I'm sure my fellow tree dudes will concur,DON'T DO IT ALONE! Be sure you have a competant groundman.


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