# First time milling



## 00juice (Dec 3, 2006)

Last week I used my alaskan for the first time. We cut some butternut into slabs, 8' long. We did some 16/4 and some 8/4 slabs. Used my 066 with a standard chain. The bar that I had my ripping chain for, was at a friends getting drilled for an auxillary oiler, so I figured i'd just use the regular chain that fit my extra bar. I made a slabbing starter bracket from some uni-strut. The process went pretty easily and quickly. Next weekend, I hope to cut up some more of the butternut and some cherry as well. Here are some pics, sorry none show off the cut lumber very well. The grain is absolutely beautiful, maybe next week i'll post some more pics.
View attachment 40997


View attachment 40998


View attachment 40999


View attachment 41000


View attachment 41001


----------



## Trigger-Time (Dec 3, 2006)

Good job! Looks like you jumped in hole hog. What are you 
going to use those big slabs for? And yes more pics please.


----------



## 00juice (Dec 3, 2006)

The guy in the pic with me is a retired art teacher, I'm a shop teacher, and we figured we might try doing some rustic/artistic furniture sculptures. We'll start collecting some lumber and materials, and start once its dry. Can't wait to start doing some more.
Brian


----------



## woodshop (Dec 3, 2006)

Good job. Butternut is nice to work with in the shop. I used to mill logs on the ground like that till I started tearing up my knees and back too much. Still do when running out of daylight or I just get lazy. Usually I use a floor jack to get the thing up on little sawhorses. 

Keep us posted (no pun intended)opcorn:


----------



## Trigger-Time (Dec 3, 2006)

00juice said:


> The guy in the pic with me is a retired art teacher, I'm a shop teacher, and we figured we might try doing some rustic/artistic furniture sculptures. We'll start collecting some lumber and materials, and start once its dry. Can't wait to start doing some more.
> Brian



I have just started milling myself, every time I make a cut I can't wait
to see what the grain of the wood looks like. If you have some way
to get the logs up a little higher it will make a big big difference on
your back and a lot easier to push the mill. And keep your chain sharp.
Also keep a eye on the air filter, milling they get dirty very fast. There
is a lot of good info here on AS.


----------



## dustytools (Dec 3, 2006)

Awesome action shots OOjuice. Looks like you took right off. Good luck with the projects.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Dec 3, 2006)

Way to go!! WS is right, your body will thank you if you get those off the ground a little!!!


----------



## aquan8tor (Dec 4, 2006)

That last piece of info is one of the best things I (should have) listened to here. I just got a 60" cant hook with log jack that helps with just that. Also, do a search on Woodshop's milling tutorials. Lots of good info on getting big cants up to make milling easy. Welcome to the site, BTW.


----------



## tribalwind (Dec 6, 2006)

really nice shots' 
was there someone else besides you and paul? or'd ya set the camera's timer and then try to look busy real quick before it went off  

regarding artistic/rustic furniture, i love that stuff too' 
theres a group of artisans i met 2 years ago at an annual gathering in Warwick NY, you guys would like it i'm sure. i taught a bamboo flute-making workshop last gathering,lots of fun  

http://www.woodlanders.com/


----------



## woodbug (Dec 6, 2006)

Is there much Butternut up in PA? We have it in KY but it's on it's way out, a canker caused by a fungus is killing them. 50 years ago it made up 10% of the bottom land and now where I work we only have 100 out of 53,000 acres. Just wondering?


----------



## woodshop (Dec 7, 2006)

woodbug said:


> Is there much Butternut up in PA? We have it in KY but it's on it's way out, a canker caused by a fungus is killing them. 50 years ago it made up 10% of the bottom land and now where I work we only have 100 out of 53,000 acres. Just wondering?


The butternut canker has reached PA also, maybe not as extensively as down there, but then there might not be as much butternut natural here than down there, don't know.


----------



## amdburner (Dec 7, 2006)

I am seeing a lot of dead butternuts here in VT also.


----------



## 00juice (Dec 9, 2006)

TribalWind,
There was only two of us milling. Paul's brother stopped by during the job, and he took the pictures for us. Still havent' done anymore yet, but maybe tomorrow. We have alot of trees available that were left behind by a logger, and then by the sewage authority when putting in new sewers. We're gonna have to get moving though, as the property owner is going to start burning everything we don't get to in the next few weeks. I don't know if there is any problems with the butternut in this area. This tree did not have any disease.
Brian


----------



## 00juice (Dec 17, 2006)

*Butternut Part II*

Here's some pics of our last attempt at milling. There are some nice 2INCH slabs, some short sections slabbed to 4 inches, Some branched sections to 4 inches, and a trunk breaking 3ways in a 7 inch slab for a table top. More pics to come.


----------



## 00juice (Dec 17, 2006)

*Butternut Part II*

Here's some more pics from our 2nd day of milling. Used a ripping chain, and an auxillary oiler this time. Much faster, smoother, and held a much better edge. Never needed to sharpen the chain after doing all of this. It cut as good at the end, as it did in the beginning. More later. Steeler game is on now. Gotta go.
Brian


----------



## woodshop (Dec 17, 2006)

00juice said:


> More later. Steeler game is on now. Gotta go.
> Brian


Well we all have our priorities now don't we 

Nice job juice. Good looking butternut. Looks like some nice crotch pieces that would make very good looking drawer fronts, especially if you bookmatched them. Are you a woodworker juice? Curious about that aux oiler, I see your helper holding it. Do you have it set up so you squeeze that bottle to get the oil flowing to your bar?


----------



## 00juice (Dec 17, 2006)

I teach some woodshop classes in high school. So, i do like to play around in the woodshop. The oiler is set up to just squeeze the bottle, and it'll flow down into the bar as needed. The bar is drilled, and a bolt going through like the granberg oiler. 
Brian


----------



## oldsaw (Dec 17, 2006)

Keep it up. Nice shots, nice wood. I'm suffering from withdrawl until Lester comes up with some logs. He has two guys who have offered, has to check out one, and wait for the weather to dry up on the other one.

mark


----------



## VT-Woodchuck (Dec 18, 2006)

Beautiful!!!!!!!


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Dec 18, 2006)

Nice lookin' wood. Good job.


----------



## 00juice (Dec 19, 2006)

A little more info, and an additional pic or two. This was a really nice day of milling. Perfect weather. Good people. It was me, paul, my brother jim, Paul's brother Al and Paul's friend Ken. The butternut was a week or so away from being burned to make way for the a new sewer line. So, we figured we'd better get it taken care of. We cut a total of 8 slabs, 2" thick by 8 feet long. We also cut four short 4" thick slabs from a piece that was only about 30" long. There was a 3 way crotch that was cut to a slab 7" thick. It is about 6 feet long. It will definately be made into a single table for the cabin. And we had (2) 6' 14" diameter crotch pieces that were each cut to give us a total of (6) 2" slabs. The three way crotch is really nice. Although, it was a pain in the butt. The 36" alaska CSM was not big enough to cut it all the way through. So, we started from the butt, and cut as far as possible. Then we came at it from the the left side of the top end. Then we came at it from the right side of the top end. Finally, we took a Chainsaw freehand to it to clean up what we couldn't reach with the CSM. It really turned out pretty well. the grooves in it from freehanding are not any deeper then 3/16" at the worst. When it's dry, nothing a big old hand plane won't take care of. We coated all the ends with anchorseal, and stickered to dry. It seemed the anchorseal we put on some other logs about three weeks ago, really seemed to soak in. We went back and coated again. I can't wait to get a chance to start using this stuff for some furniture projects. The grain in all of these logs is nothing short of absolutely beautiful. The pictures do not show it justice. There are some short (6-7')cherry logs lying around in the 12" diameter range that we will try to get to soon. My auxillary oiler worked ok, but it was difficult to get it to flow because of the viscosity of the stihl bar oil. Any suggestions to improve the flow of the auxillary oiler? Do you guys think it would be ok to take these larger slabs (2"-7") thick to a kiln in the spring, or do they need more time to dry outside? Thanks for reading.
Brian


----------



## tawilson (Dec 19, 2006)

Seeing as you're dripping it on the end of the bar, maybe you don't need all those tackifiers. Perhaps just a lighter weight motor oil would work.


----------



## webbill (Nov 8, 2007)

*New lost, confused and really need help just to know where to get started*

I have about 20 wooded acres in East Texas in the last few years of extreme drought I lost some large Oaks and a couple 20 to 30' cedars. I have one that is probably around 36" diamater it has probably been dead now for 5 years, the top branchs are falling off but I think the trunk area is still solid timber. I think, what do you guys think? I have another two that have been dead for 6 or 7 that very tall and straight but only probably a little over a foot in diamater. Do you think these trees still have any value? I know they would be like rocks to cut into boards. But if I was game would it be worth a try?

I also have other trees in my small woods that are living I would like to harvest to make room for a pecan orchard. I'd say I have several 18" to 24" in diamater and for the most part pretty tall and straight.

In addition I grew up on a small ranch in South Central Oklahoma. There is probably over a hundred acres of timber, just guessing I would say that 40 of it is in a bottom where there would be more tall trees, mostly oak I'd say, the rest not very tall but I say there are 18" or greater diamater. These trees are growing on hill sides in a very arid region, about 25 inches of rain and are very hard oaks, they are called black jacks, usually they are too small for timber but I know there are lots of trees that several boards of 12" to 8" wide or wider could be taken out 8' to 10' long or longer. As I said this wood is very dense and has a mix of beautiful red and creamy white color. Would there be a market for this timber?

If so how could I found how much it is worth. I have searched and searched of information. All the extension service stuff seems gears to have timber owner / producers.

Also if I did decided to get into the mill business I always thougth that there would be a big saw upright on a converyor type system. But I have seen pictures here where it seemed like logs were laying on the ground and the people were slicing off boards, I also saw saws mentions that were under $1,000 and I was confused if they were talking about big heavy duty chain saws but the topic was milling saws.

So I need to learn what trees are worth making into lumber, if I have some worth milling and selling how do I determine what the value is and where do I market it. And what is the least expensive mill saw I could get by in getting started.

After I cut it how to I age it and for how long?

I know that is a lot of question but I'd be extremely gratiful for some answers and maybe guidance to some litituture where I could learn some more. But some personal gudiance that isnt academic at this point would be wonderful.

Thanks, 

Bill


----------



## BobL (Nov 8, 2007)

webbill said:


> I know that is a lot of question but I'd be extremely gratiful for some answers and maybe guidance to some litituture where I could learn some more. But some personal gudiance that isnt academic at this point would be wonderful.



Welcome aboard webbill - that's a great opening post and you are right - that is a lot of questions and many of the quick answers start with . . . ."It depends . . . "

The best advice I would recommend at this moment is to take the time to learn how to use the Search function of this forum. It's all pretty much buried in there awaiting for you to uncover.


----------



## webbill (Nov 8, 2007)

*Thanks BobL*

I just got thru skimming all this thread for the last three years.

I still dont know what a lot of the talk is about because it is over my head because I dont have any background at all.

But I think I did learn that the dead trees might still have lumber in them, and they might not still have dried out. Every after decades.

That oak isnt bringing much. But I still dont really under stand how to mill it or if I wanted to market it where to even start.

Also it seems like people are using their chain saws with extra tools of some kind to mill the wood.

Is there some kind of special chain or attachment that will go on a chain saw to mill a log with? Also I saw pictures of steel guides or poles or something that was being used.

I'm on another forum for something else and sometimes I babysit new people, lol.

I sure could use a little basic direction in getting started. Just like I said reading old posts is reading what people wrote they knew what they were doing in the first place.

Is there any online manual of the basics that you know about I could download and read to kind of get an idea?

I appreciate your reply.

Bill


----------



## BobL (Nov 8, 2007)

Humm . . . I don't want to argue with you but if you're asking questions like "Is there some kind of special chain or attachment that will go on a chain saw to mill a log with? " you haven't really been reading or taking in too much of this forum. 

The best way to learn this game is go watch someone do it, maybe ask on the forum here if you can go watch someone. Unfortunately I can't answer your questions about specific value of your logs as the are completely foreign to me. 

For basic info on the web I would start here: http://www.granberg.com/

Then look here: http://www.baileysonline.com/search.asp?SKW=alaskan&catID=198

For other ideas try http://www.logosol.com/

Also Rail mill instructions here: http://www.vianet.net.au/~jemal/rail mill.htm

Some slab milling info here: http://www.vianet.net.au/~jemal/slab mill.htm


----------



## webbill (Nov 8, 2007)

*Thanks for the links Bob*

I'm sorry if you thought I was arguing. That wasn't my intention at all. Just to point out although I was really reading you are dead on as far as taking much in because I was umfamilar with a lot of the terms people were using.

To ad there isn't a "Beginners Guide to Timber Harvisting and Personal Milling for Dumbies".  

It will take a while. Last night I spent about 4 hours reading the threads before joining and posting for the first time. And although you might not be able to give specfic answers especially to market and timber quality questions you might be able to point me in directions to find out.

Thanks for the links I'll read them and jot down terms and types of equipment and tools and try to do searches on what they are.

Thanks again,

Bill


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 8, 2007)

Welcome to AS!

Where 'bouts in East Texas are you? There are several members with mills on your side of the state and I'm just west of Houston. Meeting with someone shouldn't too difficult.

While there isn't a book by that exact title, there is one that will teach you nearly everything you need to get started. Look for "Chainsaw Lumber Making" by Will Malloff.

http://www.amazon.com/Chainsaw-Lumbermaking-Will-Malloff/dp/0918804124

Some of the information on ripping chains is out of date but the rest of the info in the book is spot on.

Good luck!


----------



## oldsaw (Nov 8, 2007)

webbill said:


> I just got thru skimming all this thread for the last three years.
> 
> I still dont know what a lot of the talk is about because it is over my head because I dont have any background at all.
> 
> ...



Your question is largely one of scale. In other words, how much of this do you want milled and in what timeframe. If you are talking about a fair number of trees, you may want to hire a bandmill to come in and do the actual milling for you. Cut the trees down (again you can hire someone if you aren't comfortable or experienced enough), drag them to an accessible area, and call in a sawyer to mill them up.

A chainsaw mill is great for occasional logs that come your way to make lumber for personal use, but if you are trying to market lumber, then you will need a faster, more efficient method of milling than a chainsaw is going to provide. I love my chainsaw mill, but I use it to feed my woodworking habits, and have no interest in selling lumber. For me, it's the perfect solution. For you, it doesn't appear to be so good. You need someone who can get in, get the job done, and leave you a pile of lumber.

The lumber will have to be end-coated and stacked on a level surface with "stickers" (small strips of wood that allow airflow through the pile to facilitate drying). You may want to consider getting the lumber dried in a kiln if there is a local service, but air drying is cheaper. Otherwise you can sell it wet and roughsawn. You won't get as much money for it, but you will get the money faster, and with less work on your part.

Mark

Mark


----------



## webbill (Nov 8, 2007)

*Thanks Mark:*



oldsaw said:


> Your question is largely one of scale. In other words, how much of this do you want milled and in what timeframe. If you are talking about a fair number of trees, you may want to hire a bandmill to come in and do the actual milling for you. Cut the trees down (again you can hire someone if you aren't comfortable or experienced enough), drag them to an accessible area, and call in a sawyer to mill them up.
> 
> A chainsaw mill is great for occasional logs that come your way to make lumber for personal use, but if you are trying to market lumber, then you will need a faster, more efficient method of milling than a chainsaw is going to provide. I love my chainsaw mill, but I use it to feed my woodworking habits, and have no interest in selling lumber. For me, it's the perfect solution. For you, it doesn't appear to be so good. You need someone who can get in, get the job done, and leave you a pile of lumber.
> 
> ...



To be honest I don't know what I want to do. I am going to try to do some simple wood crafting myself, but that would not take a whole lot of wood.

Mainly I just want to know what I have and what my options are. At first I just tried to find saw mills that weren't very far away and came across some websites saying you could make money doing the milling yourself. But I kind of was wary and in my searches I came across this site. 

I did spend hours reading old posts on this link before I posted but for the most part I didn't fully understand what people were talking about most of the time and couldnt make head or tails of the pictures.

But the links Bob posted has helped me some. Just got through looking at how to mill on the Baileys site and it gave me an idea of what was going on. And I'll go to the others and take my time to try to asorb what is there.

As far as letting others do it, I dont know. I have started my own business back up again after several years working for others. It is slow getting started and part of what I was exploring was would this be something I could do when I didn't have other work to do. And could I benefit from the trees I own. So I guess I was wondering besides getting money for wood, could I make some money on my labor too, even if others would be more effecient. Does that make sense?

So first I just have to educate myself in this area and then decide what I want to do.

I have a feeling I will learn a lot once I know what you guys are talking about, lol. I'm getting there a little now.

Thanks again,

Bill


----------



## webbill (Nov 8, 2007)

*Thanks for the welcome AWB*



aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Welcome to AS!
> 
> Where 'bouts in East Texas are you? There are several members with mills on your side of the state and I'm just west of Houston. Meeting with someone shouldn't too difficult.
> 
> ...




I am in NE Texas (Emory) 50 miles N of Tyler and 30 SE of Greenville on Hwy 69 or 20 miles centered between Canton and Sulphur Springs on 19 if any of thoses towns are familiar to you.

I on occasion see timber trucks coming through but I havent been about to find a mill in NE Texas, all my searches come up with places down south in your part of the woods.

I began to wonder if I was wasting those big dead trees and if they were ruined. I guess my answer is maybe and maybe not. Besides all those reasons I cited to Mark, I was wondering if I could get out about 600 sq ft of oak planking to replace my 15 year old carpet. And just to get some kind of management plan. I know the grains and color of the woods I have access to have beautiful colors and grains. It is a shame for them to go up in smoke or rot when something does happen to the tree.

As far as meeting some forum members and seeing what they do would be great. Maybe I will come across some guys that arent too far away.

I'll look for the book. None of this is urgent on my part but I do want to learn enough to make intelligent decisions on my options, even if I decide to do nothing.

I do have one question. I have a Husqvarna 455, 3.4 CU, 3.4 HP/2.5KW, 13,000 Max RPM, Chain Pitch .325/3/8", Rec bar leng 16" to 20". When I bought it I thought it would be more than enough saw for what I had to do, but after seeing the bar lenght on saws milling I wonder. Do people, can you, or should you put on a longer bar and a special chain to mill with? If you can what is the max lenght bar and what kind of chain would you recommend for my chain saw, or would I need to get another one?

Thanks for the post,

Bill


----------



## woodshop (Nov 8, 2007)

webbill said:


> To be honest I don't know what I want to do. I am going to try to do some simple wood crafting myself, but that would not take a whole lot of wood.



Curious what you mean by "simple wood crafting"? Are you taking about making small wooden items to sell at craft shows?


----------



## webbill (Nov 8, 2007)

*Hi Woodshop:*



woodshop said:


> Curious what you mean by "simple wood crafting"? Are you taking about making small wooden items to sell at craft shows?



Yes, bird houses, feeders, stuff like that. I'd like to make some more sturdy stuff than what one usually comes across in more and in more rustic styles. 

Back in my younger days I have made simple furniture such as bookshelves, chests, chess boards, etc. nothing real fancy or complicated. In the not smooth touch look I have built rabbit hutches, chicken coops, other kinds of pole sheds. I like doing things like that but never really had a chance to pick up any real skills.


----------



## oldsaw (Nov 8, 2007)

webbill said:


> Yes, bird houses, feeders, stuff like that. I'd like to make some more sturdy stuff than what one usually comes across in more and in more rustic styles.
> 
> Back in my younger days I have made simple furniture such as bookshelves, chests, chess boards, etc. nothing real fancy or complicated. In the not smooth touch look I have built rabbit hutches, chicken coops, other kinds of pole sheds. I like doing things like that but never really had a chance to pick up any real skills.



Chicks dig guys with skills. Woodworking skills, computer hacking skills, numchuck skills, you know...

Mark


----------



## BobL (Nov 8, 2007)

I think oldsaws reply about scale, personal use, and the slowness of CS milling is a pretty good one. I did not think you were arguing - it was me think about arguing with you  - anyway - I hope you can find some useful answers here - I have been helped enormously by the site gurus and I hope my educated opnions are worth a dime or two from time to time

I would say your current saw/bar is too small for the size and extent of the trees you say you have in mind - as the old saying goes - milling is hard on saws. You can still mill a lot of usefull stuff with your small setup if you buy a CS mill (get at least a 36") but you will be limited to small diameter (eg <15" with a 20" bar) logs. 

Everyone has their own reasons for getting into home milling on a variety of scales. I'm starting to meet people who find out I'm into CS milling and the say, hey you could make lotsa money out of doing that! They don't realize how much work is involved and how slow it is - I can tell you that although I like milling, I would not do this as a day job. I am also not really doing this to get access to cheap timber - I treat any that when it does come along simply as a bonus The money I have spent so far (CS Mill, shed, planer/thicknesser etc) to get set up to get into this would buy an awful lot of lumber. I am personally doing this to get access to timber that is either simply not commerically available or running out fast.

If you can meet up with and watch aggiewoodbutcher I'm sure you will learn a lot fast. 

Cheers


----------



## webbill (Nov 8, 2007)

*Mark and Bob*

Mark my wife loves me (most of the time) and I have no skills.

Bob, I appreciate your replies. When someone gives their time they are giving part of themselves. I was frustrated last night, no matter how much time it seemed I spent I could never get a grasp on what was going on. I think a lot of it was I never grasped it was all about using a chain saw and taking slabs off a log, then when I kind of got that I wasn't sure if the chainsaw was part of the mill machine or just a chainsaw attached. And it was late here.

I didn't have time to get past the Bailey's link but called them, now I think I can at least understand the posts, lol. I will try to get to the other links you sent too. Baileys said about the same thing that I need more power. He did say I might be able to do small logs with a small Alaskan but not to push it and let it go real slow.

BTW what is a CS Mill? Chain Saw or a type or brand?

He also mentioned a beam machine might be all I need if I stick to small logs, but my internet went off and when it came back on I was off the phone and couldnt find it on the website.

I doubt at this point I would want to spring for a new chainsaw and all the other things I would need for logs, but will keep it as an option as I learn more about all those questions in that first post of mine. For the little craft type of things I want to do now I have just been using large firewood back logs and tacking on 1"X1" around the log measuring the distance of the 1x1's for a guide to keep the thickness the same and just going down it with my chainsaw. I think I will get a rip chain though the few I have cut I just used the cross chain I have. And like you for the lumber I would need it would be less trouble to buy it, but it wouldn't look as good, not the color or the grains.

So thanks again,

Bill


----------



## BobL (Nov 9, 2007)

webbill said:


> BTW what is a CS Mill? Chain Saw or a type or brand?



CS Mill stands for "ChainSaw" Mill it's a general term for any type of mill that uses a chainsaw engine as the power source. Their are some variants like a small bandsaw that uses a CS that should probably should be called a CS band Mill.



webbill said:


> He also mentioned a beam machine might be all I need if I stick to small logs, but my internet went off and when it came back on I was off the phone and couldnt find it on the website.



Beam machines use a conventional chainsaw (CS) attached at the power head end of the bar to slider which attaches to a beam of metal which is attached to the log. The CS is normally vertical and takes slices off a log like cutting a loaf of bread lengthwise. I've never used one myself but they seem ideal for small machines and small logs because there's nothing retricting the nose end of the bar although I wouldn't want to be milling big logs with one.

If you stick to small logs and a smallish alaskan mill then your current CS should be OK for small production runs. Also read this useful webpage - http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/westfordmill.htm


----------



## woodshop (Nov 9, 2007)

http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/westfordmill.htm

Excellent little blurb about chainsaw milling with lots of sound practical advice... thanks for that link Bob. Looks like an Australian version of the Granberg with a few little twists. I like their larger handhold on top, I might try and mimic that on mine since it seems to be set back further and lower.

Webbill everybody has to start at the beginning, keep asking questions. Most of us here love to spread this stuff around.


----------



## BobL (Nov 9, 2007)

woodshop said:


> Excellent little blurb about chainsaw milling with lots of sound practical advice... thanks for that link Bob. Looks like an Australian version of the Granberg with a few little twists. I like their larger handhold on top, I might try and mimic that on mine since it seems to be set back further and lower.



Yeah the company HQ is just a couple of miles from my place. They make nice solid stuff, but it's pretty expensive for what it is.


----------



## webbill (Nov 9, 2007)

*Hi Bob and Woodshop*



BobL said:


> CS Mill stands for "ChainSaw" Mill it's a general term for any type of mill that uses a chainsaw engine as the power source. Their are some variants like a small bandsaw that uses a CS that should probably should be called a CS band Mill.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After I posted my replies last night I went onto Bailey's and found the Beam Machine. For now I think it is all I need. For the craft items the largest piece of wood I would need is a 1"X18"X12" and I could get by replacing the 12"'s with 2, 6" pieces. Those pieces would be for the floor of a table feeder. The sides would only be a squared off triangle piece going from about 4"'s to 8"'s to 8" high. The roof two pieces of 12"x6", the front sides are plexiglass. For the hanging feeders I am just going to lop off two slabs of about 8" diam. logs and then use two 6"X12" to each round piece and use a router for the feeding holes and to make a groove in each round piece to put two plexiglass sides where one can see the seed level. Simple stuff, but going to use more wood and thicker plexiglass where they dont fall apart like the Walmart kind. And also treat the wood in this non-toxic some kind for of salt based solution (I forget the chemical name) that will protect the wood forever but has no color then stain them in some nice aged looking non-toxic gray and moss looking green. There isn't much wood invovled really and once I get on an assembly line type of making them I dont think much time either. If I could get a Walmart Price for a much better looking and much sturdier quality I think I know enough markets for them I could do pretty good. Not make a living mind you but make some bucks and enjoy doing it and get some satisfaction of making something long lasting, functional, and nice looking. I am going to also make some suet feeders that isn't any more that a small piece of firewood with holes drilled it it, but woodpeckers and nuthatches especially, but other perching birds really love to visit. Another key is I am going to include hardware where all of them are easy to install and to get to get down and refill with ease along with the feeders.

The timber I have access to and the milling might come later. At least I kind of know what is involved in milling it, next I need to find it there is a market for it that would make it worth my time. The Oklahoma arid grown oak is so beautiful and dense, as much red or more red as white and the grain pattern is so nice I was thinking that I might in the future find a small independent furniture or cabinet maker to market it to. But I dont have time now for that. And it will require a lot of thought and facts than I have now.

Another question. If I run out of aged firewood logs on my craft stuff which is going to be small pieces of wood and have to cut new trees to get more, could I dry it out in an open oven at low tempatures instead of making some kind of mini-kiln that would take weeks or months to season?

I really appreciate you guys help. I don't have all the answers but at least I have a starting point to find out.  

Bill


----------



## woodshop (Nov 9, 2007)

webbill said:


> Another question. If I run out of aged firewood logs on my craft stuff which is going to be small pieces of wood and have to cut new trees to get more, could I dry it out in an open oven at low tempatures instead of making some kind of mini-kiln that would take weeks or months to season?



Short answer is no... it would dry the wood way too fast. What happens is the outside wood dries, but the inside is still very wet, and this causes lots of stress which distorts the fibers. It is called honeycombing. Google honeycombing & wood together and you will find lots of discussion on the subject. There are ways to accelerate drying pieces of wood, but there is no substitute for time needed, because it simply takes time for the moisture to transport through the fibers and out of the wood evenly. Some wood does that better than others. Gum for example transports water poorly, and thus you can easily get honeycombing and checking in that species by drying too fast.

I too make items in my woodshop to sell at shows. At this point the most advice I can give you is that there is a lot more too the process than making product and setting up a table at a show. I found out the hard way that if you want to be successful you need to be very organized first of all. You need to take the time to plan ahead and take things somewhat slowly so you can learn from the mistakes.


----------



## chass (Nov 9, 2007)

Webbill,

Back in August of this year I was at the same place you are now. I had a small saw (18” bar), access to some wood but had never done any milling before in my life. Also none of my friends or family had done any milling either.

I now have 100+ BF of fine looking cherry air drying in the garage. Now I’m still very much a rookie so I won’t give you any milling advice but I will tell you what I found out regarding the wait required for air drying. While I was excited when milling my first log in the back of my mind I was concerned about having to wait a year or more to use the wood for the project. I thought I should just go buy the wood and get started. The money I spent for the Alaska mill and ripping chain would have more then covered the cost of wood for the project. However, after milling the logs up and seeing what I had, my tune changed. 

Next fall I will start on the coffee table and I’m OK with that because in the mean time I have a new hobby, chain saw milling. It is just as much fun or just as satisfying milling the lumber for the project as it is building the project.

Chass


----------



## webbill (Nov 10, 2007)

*I get the point Woodshop & Chass*



woodshop said:


> Short answer is no... it would dry the wood way too fast. What happens is the outside wood dries, but the inside is still very wet, and this causes lots of stress which distorts the fibers. It is called honeycombing. Google honeycombing & wood together and you will find lots of discussion on the subject. There are ways to accelerate drying pieces of wood, but there is no substitute for time needed, because it simply takes time for the moisture to transport through the fibers and out of the wood evenly. Some wood does that better than others. Gum for example transports water poorly, and thus you can easily get honeycombing and checking in that species by drying too fast.
> 
> I too make items in my woodshop to sell at shows. At this point the most advice I can give you is that there is a lot more too the process than making product and setting up a table at a show. I found out the hard way that if you want to be successful you need to be very organized first of all. You need to take the time to plan ahead and take things somewhat slowly so you can learn from the mistakes.



Well I am trying to get organized. Where I am getting unorganized is trying to make my own lumber. :newbie: Well I am learning. Kind of. When I go into Lowes and price what I want I get even more incentive to mill some of mine own even if it is over a year until I can use it.

I have a tin shed that is 8'x8'x8' that has a 4'x7' door that has junk in it now. It has a dirt floor but stays pretty dry. It is part of and divided by chicken wire between an old chicken coup which is larger than the shed and the coup has a door too. So with both doors open I could have ventalation from the south (the chicken coup) and the east the shed for drying wood.

Would something like that work. There is no electrictiy but in the days of the chickens I stung out an extension cord to it for light. I could run a fan out there and a little heater if it would help, but the heater might not do much even if I closed the shed door unless I blocked off the open wired divider from the chicken coup. Should/Could I cover the top with clear plastic sheeting to keep off dirt?

I've seen examples of how to stack it. What I read you would pretty much have to have separate stacks for different lenghts? Also have read different types of wood should be in separate stacks. I will have mostly oak but I have some dead cedars I would like to salvage. Also I want to take out some elms. I always thought of them as trash wood, but in internet searches found in England they are well thought of for some wood. I had a large one get struck by lighting and split. It was a real heavy tree, more than oak it seemed. I had been dragging dead oaks and cedars to my pond to sink as structure and had roll them into the pond and the floated them to where I sank them. But the elm sank like a rock as soon as I rolled it into the water.

Have any of you heard of people using elm for wood working?

Chriss you want to do something special for your house. I want to produce a product small scale. 

I looked at Lowes and man.....but it is finished plainned wood. I really want rough hewn wood for that texiture.

So I have some large fire wood logs that have been outside for a couple of years but not covered. Is there a chance they would be good for wood working could I tell if I purchased a moistur meter. I saw some that went for $25.

Next solution short-term is there somone out there looking near by that would have some rough cut but cured oak to sale at a reasonalbe price?


----------



## oldsaw (Nov 10, 2007)

chass said:


> Webbill,
> 
> Back in August of this year I was at the same place you are now. I had a small saw (18” bar), access to some wood but had never done any milling before in my life. Also none of my friends or family had done any milling either.
> 
> ...



I purchased my 066, Alaskan mill, 2 rip chains, auxiliary oiler, and a 2x8 guide board for just under $700. My first batch of logs got me over 400 bft of oak and walnut, the second got me another 250 bft more. I was into the wood for a bit more than $1 per board foot. I've got about 200bft of cherry drying now. Even with the addition of the 3120, I'm under $1/ft over the past 4-5 years I've been milling for equipment costs.

Nothing is better than to build something out of wood that you milled yourself. This is the goal I had 20 some years ago, but before I knew you could use a chainsaw to mill. Have fun, I know I do.

Mark


----------



## oldsaw (Nov 10, 2007)

webbill said:


> Well I am trying to get organized. Where I am getting unorganized is trying to make my own lumber. :newbie: Well I am learning. Kind of. When I go into Lowes and price what I want I get even more incentive to mill some of mine own even if it is over a year until I can use it.
> 
> I have a tin shed that is 8'x8'x8' that has a 4'x7' door that has junk in it now. It has a dirt floor but stays pretty dry. It is part of and divided by chicken wire between an old chicken coup which is larger than the shed and the coup has a door too. So with both doors open I could have ventalation from the south (the chicken coup) and the east the shed for drying wood.
> 
> ...



Rough cut air dried oak isn't expensive. I use a cheap moisture meter, and it works for my needs. Anything is better than nothing.

The firewood logs? You would have to see how much cracking there is. The wood inside may be discolored, but that may be more "rustic" for your needs. You don't know until you open a log up. It's kind of like Christmas every time to flip off the top on a new log. You could be happy, or not so happy. That's why we mill logs. The good ones make it all worthwhile.

Mark


----------



## rotarysound (Nov 10, 2007)

*Chainsaw Milling Manual*

Greetings CSM folks,

I too am new at chainsaw milling here in the pacific northwest and have been watching and reading on this forum. Thank you for all of the excellent information. I came across this Chainsaw Milling Manual the other day and thought it may be useful to beginners on the forum especially for the person that started this thread and like myself:

www.gardenorganic.org.uk/pdfs/international_programme/ChainsawMillingManual.pdf

I really thought it covered most everything about the subject. It's a big PDF file but I think it's worth the time in downloading it. It is very comprehensive and up to date with pictures. It also describes many of the current mills available today that are often mentioned often on this forum. It's a long document.

As for myself, I am starting out with a Logosol Timberjig, Stihl MS 660 and a 25" ES Bar and two loops of Oregon 27R ripping chain. I also have several Stihl 028 Woodboss saws that I can experiment with for smaller logs. My first project was a 24" Big Leaf Maple. Probably not the best log to start on but it worked out okay I think and ended up with some nice 1x6 boards and some slabs for a milling deck. My friend loaned me a Peavy that was modified with 5' pipe welded on to it. It came in handy for moving giant logs around or out of the way. I bought a 3' Timberjack that is usable as a peavy that I will be trying out after it arrives but still may want to invest in a large stout cant hook. Those things are spendy though. $100.00 just seems like too much $ for a tool like that. Oh well. Bye for now.

Thanks everyone for all of the great reading!


----------



## webbill (Nov 10, 2007)

*Chass, OldSaw, & RotarySound*



rotarysound said:


> Greetings CSM folks,
> 
> I too am new at chainsaw milling here in the pacific northwest and have been watching and reading on this forum. Thank you for all of the excellent information. I came across this Chainsaw Milling Manual the other day and thought it may be useful to beginners on the forum especially for the person that started this thread and like myself:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the replies,

Chass I too would like to build some nice furniture for the house and could wait for it but I need some things built in the next month and at this point I may have to buy plained wood for a very high price and rough it up. 

In earlier posts I said I had ideas on building things that would be more durable and attractive than what most retail outlets sell now and stuff that a middle aged person could buy and have a reasonable expectation it would still be around when they croaked. That definetly doesn't include makeing it with green wood that will warp crack and fall apart as it dried.

Right now I could use a 100 board feet of rough 1" or 1/2" oak, the pieces do not have to be long, 1 foot trimmed would do, and 1 foot wide would be great but some of it could be 4" to 6" wide. In other words I might be able to use someone elses scraps, depending on their scraps. The pieces would not have to have a precise thickness just pretty close.

I think it was you OldChain that said there was plenty around, you are probably right. Any ideas on how to locate it?

As far as my milling. Most of the trees I will have will be 18" or less, most much less. But since the widest wood I would need is 12" 12"'s long and I could use 2 6" pieces that would be no problem. Besides the 12" pieces I will need 6" & 4" wide pieces too, so almost all the cuts of the trees would probably all get used, the wide cuts in the middle for the 12" and toward the ends I would get my more narrow cuts.

Anyway point to last paragraph is that with the CS I have I think I will just stick to a beam maker, cheap, light, and would be fine for smaller diam. I could cross the timbers into short pieces for the shorter pieces of wood I need for my crafts. Maybe later I might get a larger CS and a small mill machine.

*Any ideas about the place (described in a earlier post) I will be drying my wood in for furture use. Will it work, improvements I could make? How high could I stack the wood?*Any ideas on how to find wood now from CS millers that is ready to use?

*Where to post oh here to find people that may have some, or other places to post to find some? At this point I think I would rather buy it and get busy with my building the projects.* I can see if the fire wood is dry enough later for the next round. I havent ordered my rip chain or the beam machine yet, but probably will do it today but won't get it for a week. So even if I get a moisture meter it I wouldn't know if I could use it and if I couldnt I would be getting short on time.

*Does anyone know where to even start looking for wood? Any ideas on what would be a fair price?*

I know I ask a lot of questions, but I really appreciate the help.

Bill, the pesky :newbie: :newbie:


----------



## woodshop (Nov 10, 2007)

webbill said:


> Does anyone know where to even start looking for wood? Any ideas on what would be a fair price?




Don't know about where you are in Texas, but around here a good place to start is head away from any of the big cities into the country and visit some of the smaller sawmills. They often have "extras", stacks of cull or otherwise not up to par wood that goes REAL cheap. Their prices for grade lumber right off the saw are also very good compared to a retail lumber distributor. 

As far as price... that is VERY location specific. Example, cherry, walnut and white oak are generally cheaper by a good buck or more a foot here in the east compared to out on west coast. As oldsaw pointed out, the more you mill the cheaper it gets once you buy your equipment and get set up. I spent all together over a few years time almost $5000 on saws and mills a ways back. But then I've milled several thousand feet of lumber every year since then so... quick and dirty math looks like I'm down to less than 30 cents a bd ft at this point if I don't pay myself a salary. Of course... there are expenses other than just gas/oil/chain/bandsaw blades... like transportation to and from milling area which just seems to get more expensive every day. For the purposes of my fledgling woodshop business, I use $2 a bd ft when I price that into the final cost of the piece I'm selling. 

webbill hard to comment not seeing it, but sounds like your chicken coup shed should be OK to dry your lumber as long as it does get air flow through it. No need to cover it to keep dirt off... but you do need to keep rain off of it. Don't let it dry too fast in the first week or so (partially cover it) or you will get more check and twist than you would otherwise.


----------



## webbill (Nov 10, 2007)

*Thanks Mark, I just replied to you on another link*



woodshop said:


> Don't know about where you are in Texas, but around here a good place to start is head away from any of the big cities into the country and visit some of the smaller sawmills. They often have "extras", stacks of cull or otherwise not up to par wood that goes REAL cheap. Their prices for grade lumber right off the saw are also very good compared to a retail lumber distributor.
> 
> As far as price... that is VERY location specific. Example, cherry, walnut and white oak are generally cheaper by a good buck or more a foot here in the east compared to out on west coast. As oldsaw pointed out, the more you mill the cheaper it gets once you buy your equipment and get set up. I spent all together over a few years time almost $5000 on saws and mills a ways back. But then I've milled several thousand feet of lumber every year since then so... quick and dirty math looks like I'm down to less than 30 cents a bd ft at this point if I don't pay myself a salary. Of course... there are expenses other than just gas/oil/chain/bandsaw blades... like transportation to and from milling area which just seems to get more expensive every day. For the purposes of my fledgling woodshop business, I use $2 a bd ft when I price that into the final cost of the piece I'm selling.
> 
> webbill hard to comment not seeing it, but sounds like your chicken coup shed should be OK to dry your lumber as long as it does get air flow through it. No need to cover it to keep dirt off... but you do need to keep rain off of it. Don't let it dry too fast in the first week or so (partially cover it) or you will get more check and twist than you would otherwise.



My problem is that I can't locate a small local mill. Although I think that there are within a hour or so drive, I guess they just dont see a need for retail advertising. I'll keep looking.

How high can you stack milled wood, and can you stack in different widths as long as everything is supported? Would clear plastic be ok to initially cover it with? We even during doughts have a pretty high humidity level here. Good new I guess for quality? Bad news for fast wood, which I have pretty much given up on. But I still want to do my projects even if I purchase the wood which I initially planned to, but then got to thinking man I waste lots of good wood, why buy.

Ask this in the other post but what kind of things do you make?

Thanks again,

Bill


----------



## woodshop (Nov 10, 2007)

webbill said:


> How high can you stack milled wood...



Limits are logistics and safety... how much of a pain in the a$$ to get the wood UP there and then get it DOWN again, and will it fall on somebody if and when it does. Remember the wood will move as it shrinks and dries. I rarely stack more than 6ft high, and even then I often have some support post on either side to keep it from falling. 

You can put different length stacks in the pile as long as you put the long ones down first and stack shorter ones above.


----------



## webbill (Nov 10, 2007)

*Thanks again Mark*



woodshop said:


> Limits are logistics and safety... how much of a pain in the a$$ to get the wood UP there and then get it DOWN again, and will it fall on somebody if and when it does. Remember the wood will move as it shrinks and dries. I rarely stack more than 6ft high, and even then I often have some support post on either side to keep it from falling.
> 
> You can put different length stacks in the pile as long as you put the long ones down first and stack shorter ones above.




I would probably have the same lenghts about 4 to 6 ft long, but would have different widths. And could have a couple of stacks for the shorter ones and longer ones. Probably will try for 6' but will have shorter left overs.

Could I stack newer wood on top of older cuts? I could paint the ends different colors to tell when the pieces were added. BTW what would the best things to paint the ends with.

Bill


----------



## oldsaw (Nov 10, 2007)

I use the different color end coating to signify batches in the stack. Works well since I am a low volume producer.

Mark


----------



## webbill (Nov 10, 2007)

*Me again Mark*



oldsaw said:


> I use the different color end coating to signify batches in the stack. Works well since I am a low volume producer.
> 
> Mark




But what do you use? What kind of paint, will anything work and not ruin the wood.


----------



## oldsaw (Nov 10, 2007)

webbill said:


> But what do you use? What kind of paint, will anything work and not ruin the wood.



I just use interior latex paint. Anchorseal is better, but paint has served me well, especially since I usually start the drying process in my garage...and often complete it there as well. Small batches, usually 50-100 bft at a time.

You can usually buy "mis-mixed" paint at any lumber yard/home center for a couple of bucks a gallon. My wife usually keeps me well supplied, so I haven't needed to buy paint especially for the purpose.

Mark


----------



## webbill (Nov 10, 2007)

*Thanks Mark*



oldsaw said:


> I just use interior latex paint. Anchorseal is better, but paint has served me well, especially since I usually start the drying process in my garage...and often complete it there as well. Small batches, usually 50-100 bft at a time.
> 
> You can usually buy "mis-mixed" paint at any lumber yard/home center for a couple of bucks a gallon. My wife usually keeps me well supplied, so I haven't needed to buy paint especially for the purpose.
> 
> Mark




I'll quit pesting you for a while. Thanks again.


----------



## oldsaw (Nov 10, 2007)

webbill said:


> I'll quit pesting you for a while. Thanks again.



Don't mind. You have to start somewhere. I learned all this stuff before I discovered this site and another one I hung out on. The learning curve is pretty steep. See if your local library has, or can get, Will Malloff's "Chainsaw Lumbermaking", although dated, and he spends too much time on contraptions, there is a wealth of information in the book. It's been out of print for years and fetches a good price on ebay or Amazon. I paid $65 for mine which is in perfect shape. I've seen guys pay over $100 for one.

Mark


----------



## webbill (Nov 10, 2007)

*Thanks Mark*



oldsaw said:


> Don't mind. You have to start somewhere. I learned all this stuff before I discovered this site and another one I hung out on. The learning curve is pretty steep. See if your local library has, or can get, Will Malloff's "Chainsaw Lumbermaking", although dated, and he spends too much time on contraptions, there is a wealth of information in the book. It's been out of print for years and fetches a good price on ebay or Amazon. I paid $65 for mine which is in perfect shape. I've seen guys pay over $100 for one.
> 
> Mark



I'll try to find a cheap copy of the book. The library here is so small I almost have as many books as they do, lol. Some people just like to collect collector items. I have a few Churchhill books worth in excess of $250 each. It seems like they'd print a few more if there was that much demand. There are cheap copies of my Churchill books. But I get a thrill out having a book over eighty years old in my hand.

Does he give much information on drying it out and knowing when it is ready. I know right now with just a beam machine I can get all the lumber I want out of smaller trees with the chain saw I have and for the room I have for drying. I may want to do bigger stuff later, but I'd rather go slow on the milling and get up to speed on the crafts now. If I did get a mill, I would need a larger saw. Right now I wish I had a little one to clear out 1 or 2 inch brush with to get to the real trees. One thing I really need to do is to manage my little woods. Need to clear out lots of brush around trees that potential to grow into nice timber, especially around lots of over 12" diam over 20' eastern red cedars that the trunks are straight and dont taper too much until the very top, not to mention all the oaks and no telling what else that is so high I cant see the leaves very well. I know I have an 8" diam wild cherry that have been dead so long I dont know if it is has any good wood or not, but within a week it will be down where I can find out.

But all in good time, the bigger saw, a mill, and more room to dry will probably happen. Just getting some lumber that is rough to do my crafting stuff with is my priority. Also now I have lots of dead trees (from building a pond, moving in a portable building that dried out their root system, and cutting roots with underground electric line trenchs) that I think still have some good lumber in them. I doubt if I milled all them now I would have enough space to dry them. So if I get serious and want to do more than the beam machine can do I need to have a place to put the wood. And what to do with it all after it drys. I dont know where to sell it and for what crafts I think I could build and sell I'd have years of lumber.

But on the dead ones if I cut them down and top them out until I get to good wood and if I stack them on something off the ground will they store for a long time until I get around to milling them? Should I paint their ends or just leave them be?

I think I might have found a small bandsaw mill that still air drys that is ran by two brothers that I dont think would be more than an hour drive away. I sent them an email maybe I will get lucky.

Remember all this started because I wanted free wood for my crafts until I found out it took over a year to dry. I still want the free wood but there is only so much of me to go around. So first build my crafts for the booth I have access to the last of this month, next try to perserve dead trees so not to waste them, if I havent aready, in any case they need to come down. And mill small pieces for next year. Remember I only need 12" long and at the biggest pieces 12" wide which could be 2 6" pieces. So I can cross cut probably 4' lenghts and use the beam machine and my current chain saw. Then over time build from there.

Wasn't it you that said to go slow. I know about building my little feeders and later houses. Any beginner kid in 7th grade shop could do it. If they dont sell my wife already paid for the booth and I still think the small batch I will build I will be abe to eventually get rid of them. The felling, preserving the logs, milling, and drying is what gets complicated.

Thanks again,

Bill


----------

