# The one handed debate...



## mndlawn (Jan 23, 2010)

We all know that in a perfect world 2 hands firmly planted on a saw while cutting in a tree is the way to go. But how many of us honestly wield old reliable one handed most of the time?


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## DK_stihl (Jan 23, 2010)

*One-handed*

Seriously? You must not do much tree work if you even are asking this question. EVERY production tree foreman I have ever worked with uses a saw one-handed. Everyone else is lying to you.


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## tr33thri11s (Jan 23, 2010)

I never ever ever one hand a chainsaw. I hold it in a firm grim in my teeth. Makes for spitting out my chew a bit difficult, but hey NO ANSI rules saying I can't. :greenchainsaw: Almost like that. LOL


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## mndlawn (Jan 23, 2010)

DK_stihl said:


> Everyone else is lying to you.



Exactly


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 23, 2010)

I do when I see the need and deem it a necessary skill to have. One handing and two handing carry different risks, learn to identify and mitigate them, instead of believing one will keep you safe and the other is bad. My 2cents.


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## DK_stihl (Jan 23, 2010)

Nailsbeats said:


> I do when I see the need and deem it a necessary skill to have. One handing and two handing carry different risks, learn to identify and mitigate them, instead of believing one will keep you safe and the other is bad. My 2cents.



Good post, I agree!


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## mndlawn (Jan 23, 2010)

DK_stihl said:


> Seriously? You must not do much tree work if you even are asking this question.



It's just a question to get some feedback. Not looking for insults.


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## Bermie (Jan 23, 2010)

This one is like the topping or spiking prune threads!!! Its been debated MANY times!!!

My standard answer, only one hand when there is no danger I will cut a rope or myself!!


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## Tree Pig (Jan 23, 2010)

I think we need to stop debating it before some liberal makes the saw manufacturers stop making them. For all intents and purposes top handle saws are designed and balanced for one handed use. I am a firm believer that there are times when one handed cutting (with a top handle saw) can actually be safer then two handed cutting. Besides I get really tired of my big mits always engaging the chain brake on my 200t.




Stihl-O-Matic said:


> For all intents and purposes top handle saws are designed and balanced for one handed use



Of course I am referring to the stihl top handles, I not sure what the husqy top handles are balance for... Maybe stump grinding.


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## BigE (Jan 23, 2010)

My first saw was a top handle saw, and yes, it was easy to use it one handed. Easy enough such that I got used to it and did it w/o thinking about it. Usually two-handed, but one-handed when the situation called for it.

So, when I tried a rear handle saw and tried using *that* one handed, wow, what a rude awakening! Front of the saw came down too fast, and I couldn't get my finger off the gas! Fortunately, when I do cut one handed, the saw is always off to the side, so no harm done, but man, what an eye opener!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 23, 2010)

mndlawn said:


> But how many of us honestly wield old reliable one handed most of the time?



There are many who do, but they are idiots. Nobody can control the kickback of a chainsaw with one hand. If one handed operation is a workers SOP, then that person is an accident waiting to happen.



> Seriously? You must not do much tree work if you even are asking this question. EVERY production tree foreman I have ever worked with uses a saw one-handed. Everyone else is lying to you.



I guarantee you that one handing is the exception rather then the rule for me, and I call myself above-average to be humble. I know people who are better then me who see one-handing as purely bone-lazy tradecraft. It should take only a few seconds to shift to a safer position.


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## ozzy42 (Jan 23, 2010)

I think of it this way .I usually 2 hand the saw when I'm in a lazy mood to be honest about it.
Most of thetime though I am using the left hand to move branches on the ground to get to the next cut ,or doing cut-n-throw while aloft.

However ,,,,I insist my son [15 yrs old ] keeps both hands on the saws at all times.Mostly due to the fact that he has nt been using saws for 28yrs.

Do as I say ,not as I do.


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## VT_Tree_Wrecker (Jan 23, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> There are many who do, but they are idiots. Nobody can control the kickback of a chainsaw with one hand. If one handed operation is a workers SOP, then that person is an accident waiting to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> I guarantee you that one handing is the exception rather then the rule for me, and I call myself above-average to be humble. I know people who are better then me who see one-handing as purely bone-lazy tradecraft. It should take only a few seconds to shift to a safer position.



:agree2:


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## rob b (Jan 23, 2010)

two hands are better than one but when your over bare wire 13.2 kv sometimes you have no choice


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## TimberMcPherson (Jan 23, 2010)

I use mine one handed half the time. I recognise its not ideal but around close to 100 arborists I have worked around, in different countries and from different countries, almost all single hand at least 30% of the time. German, Aussie, Irish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Norwegian, NZers, Canadian, American.

Even those (germans) who were adament they didnt ever single handed would do it at least a few times a day.


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## DK_stihl (Jan 23, 2010)

*I agree*



rob b said:


> two hands are better than one but when your over bare wire 13.2 kv sometimes you have no choice



This is the majority of the work I do. There is no "better position" to move to, and you're not going to use a rope, sling, or a snap cut and risk the brush hitting the line. Hold it and cut it.


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## highpointtree (Jan 23, 2010)

*50%*

When using the 200t I only one hand 50% of the time and then I switch and use the other hand 50% of the time.


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## EdenT (Jan 23, 2010)

I one hand my silky all the time. 

I one hand 200T's occasionally to. What I have noted is that usually I am one handing it because I am too fat and lazy to get into a good cutting position that would allow me to use two hands. I also note that most cuts I would do one handed with a 200T I can do more safely with my silky. If I want to have one hand on the piece being cut, I finish the cut with the silky. I will still one hand the 200T in the future, but I consider it a high risk move and try to do it as little as possible.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 23, 2010)

DK_stihl said:


> This is the majority of the work I do. There is no "better position" to move to, and you're not going to use a rope, sling, or a snap cut and risk the brush hitting the line. Hold it and cut it.



Snap cuts work fine.

Last storm i worked i saw an experienced bucketman/CA nail his left hand. He was luck that the break had engaged and he was just gouged in the heel of his palm with static teeth.


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## TreeClimber57 (Jan 23, 2010)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Of course I am referring to the stihl top handles, I not sure what the husqy top handles are balance for... Maybe stump grinding.


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## TreeClimber57 (Jan 23, 2010)

Most of us (lets be honest here) have one handled a top handled saw.

I don't think anybody should one hand rear handled saws any time, but I have seen it done (done by one person with a 441 ... and overhead..).

None of the manufacturers will say it is safe to do, their lawyers likely print that part.. but we all have done it. I you know the risks, and handle it properly and only when safe to do so, then one handing a top handled saw can be done safely.


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## TreeClimber57 (Jan 23, 2010)

highpointtree said:


> When using the 200t I only one hand 50% of the time and then I switch and use the other hand 50% of the time.



Ambidextrous ! More skill than I have ..


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 23, 2010)

TreeClimber57 said:


> I you know the risks, and handle it properly and only when safe to do so, then one handing a top handled saw can be done safely.



If you use one hand more then two, then you are an accident waiting to happen. JM(ns)HO


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## clearance (Jan 23, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Snap cuts work fine.
> 
> Last storm i worked i saw an experienced bucketman/CA nail his left hand. He was luck that the break had engaged and he was just gouged in the heel of his palm with static teeth.



Cutting branches that are overhanging a line using snap cuts, I think not. I have two hands, I wish I had a tail, then I could use two hands. I don't want to get into another beef, but how much utility work have you done, on energized high voltage?


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## stihlcountry (Jan 23, 2010)

I watched a man on Ax Men the other night use one hand on a rear handle saw. I guess when you get really confident on doing something like that you forget the risk envolved.


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## EdenT (Jan 23, 2010)

clearance said:


> Cutting branches that are overhanging a line using snap cuts, I think not. I have two hands, I wish I had a tail, then I could use two hands. I don't want to get into another beef, but how much utility work have you done, on energized high voltage?



Ignoring the HV issue for the moment, what would your advice be to a young arborist who does not do power line work, if they asked you whether they should one hand a saw?


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## EdenT (Jan 23, 2010)

stihlcountry said:


> I watched a man on Ax Men the other night use one hand on a rear handle saw. I guess when you get really confident on doing something like that you forget the risk envolved.



I bet you remember when the saw smacks you in the face!


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 23, 2010)

One handing a rear handle saw is a go in tricky situations. Like bucking trees under tension in the woods. With twists, binds, preasure and traps, sometimes you'll trip the last bit of your cut one handed while ready to move.

Two hands on the rear handle is used also for that matter. For swinging through a backcut or whatever, takes less energy and is easier on the back for long cuts.


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## TreeClimber57 (Jan 23, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> If you use one hand more then two, then you are an accident waiting to happen. JM(ns)HO



I can not disagree with you there, I would never recommend that one use any saw one handed the majority of the time, or even half the time. Just stating that if used cautiously with proper understanding of the risks involved, then it can be done safely. It does have a higher risk factor than two handed, regardless of who is using it.


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## clearance (Jan 23, 2010)

EdenT said:


> Ignoring the HV issue for the moment, what would your advice be to a young arborist who does not do power line work, if they asked you whether they should one hand a saw?



Not to one hand when learning. Classic do as I say, not as I do.


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 23, 2010)

If you sign up for production, you will be using one hand on a 200T all day and if you can not, maybe you should not get into production. A good climber calls his shots. If you cannot handle it , dont do it.
Jeff
use 2 hands if you need


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## DK_stihl (Jan 23, 2010)

*Training*

Ignoring the HV issue for the moment, what would your advice be to a young arborist who does not do power line work, if they asked you whether they should one hand a saw?
__________________

You shouldn't train a new arborist to do it (cut one handed), but they will probably pick it up from watching you! That how I learned.


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## DK_stihl (Jan 23, 2010)

clearance said:


> Cutting branches that are overhanging a line using snap cuts, I think not. I have two hands, I wish I had a tail, then I could use two hands. I don't want to get into another beef, but how much utility work have you done, on energized high voltage?



I have to agree, snap cuts are risky business when used on brush that is overhanging energized conductors. Good post clearance!


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## DK_stihl (Jan 23, 2010)

EdenT said:


> I one hand my silky all the time.
> 
> I one hand 200T's occasionally to. What I have noted is that usually I am one handing it because I am too fat and lazy to get into a good cutting position that would allow me to use two hands. I also note that most cuts I would do one handed with a 200T I can do more safely with my silky. If I want to have one hand on the piece being cut, I finish the cut with the silky. I will still one hand the 200T in the future, but I consider it a high risk move and try to do it as little as possible.



Hand saws will work well in most cases, but it sure is nice to use a 200T for production! Cutting by hand all day gets old fast, I've done it.


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## EdenT (Jan 23, 2010)

DK_stihl said:


> You shouldn't train a new arborist to do it (cut one handed), but they will probably pick it up from watching you! That how I learned.



You were watching? I feel violated! The truth is that almost all professionals will at some time one hand a saw. But they are professionals, know the risks, and are possibly choosing the lesser of two dangers at the time. The trouble with it being 'accepted practice' is you get moron's like this -

Moron with a 200T

who make the rest of our industry look bad when they cut bits off themselves.


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## DK_stihl (Jan 23, 2010)

*good post*



EdenT said:


> You were watching? I feel violated! The truth is that almost all professionals will at some time one hand a saw. But they are professionals, know the risks, and are possibly choosing the lesser of two dangers at the time. The trouble with it being 'accepted practice' is you get moron's like this -
> 
> Moron with a 200T
> 
> who make the rest of our industry look bad when they cut bits off themselves.



You're right, I don't do it when it's unnecessary, but it definitely has it's time and place. Yeah, that tree topping guy is an idiot!


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## outofmytree (Jan 25, 2010)

Ok here we go. Yet another thread where the pro camp says one handing is essential to meet the deadline/be a "real" tree guy/stay employed/look cool and the nancy boys like me say climb to a better position and eliminate the need to cut one handed.

For cuts above ANYTHING of value or danger including HV there are still ways to do the deed without taking a hand off your saw. 

* Cut the scarf with your 200 and the back cut with a decent handsaw. 

* Snap cut the piece baby

* Cut a "handle" about 8 inches long using a lateral just above your main cut. When you feel the back cut open up hit the off switch with your right thumb and grab the "handle" with your left hand. Allow the branch to fall/pivot around your left hand then release at the appropriate time.

Now don't take this to mean that I do not 1 hand my 200t. Frankly I do. Then immediately afterward look for the better option and there always is one. Slowly slowly I am eliminating the one hand cut from my bag of tricks.


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## Bermie (Jan 25, 2010)

One way to avoid the cut and hold is to try the 'reverse' snap cut.

Cut the tension wood first, then the compression wood, allow the piece to settle and just pinch the bar, chainbrake on, reach over and snap it off and chuck it down...The bar in the cut stops the piece snapping off on its own as long as you get the overlaps right.


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## lxt (Jan 25, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> There are many who do, but they are idiots..



WOW.....what an ignorant statement JPS, I`ll bet many ITCC have 1 handed using discretion!!!!


Again:* There is no greater authority pertaining to being aloft in a tree than the person in the tree!!!* Funny most of my close calls were on the ground!!!



LXT...................


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## treemandan (Jan 25, 2010)

mndlawn said:


> It's just a question to get some feedback. Not looking for insults.



You must not do a lot of tree work cause if you think that is an inusult boy let me tell you... :chainsawguy:... It wasn't... an insult.

No but really : How are you " one handing" is the question. Like a buh-boon? Or when its " proper" ? What is proper anyway? Do you know? I think I know. I was one handing improperly one day and all the sudden I am bleeding all over this floor in the hospital. 
There are some areas where reaching out with one hand is OK but I thought I was bad til I seen some of you guys. Its something you always have to control.


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## tree MDS (Jan 25, 2010)

I one hand as I see fit...thankfully being in the tree is one place where nobody is gonna tell me whats up, or what to do and what not to do.


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## treemandan (Jan 25, 2010)

DK_stihl said:


> Ignoring the HV issue for the moment, what would your advice be to a young arborist who does not do power line work, if they asked you whether they should one hand a saw?
> __________________
> 
> You shouldn't train a new arborist to do it (cut one handed), but they will probably pick it up from watching you! That how I learned.



I would say KEEP BOTH LOCKED ON THAT SON OF A BEECH. Nasty little ####ers those saws. Those builder dudes wanna act tough with their yellow Dewalt? They think their bad cause they shot a nail through their knee cap? That's Child's play, its for kids. None of that stuff is really gonna kill you.
You got a swell chance on cutting your self either way so best to make sure you got it. Learn how to enage the break or shut if off while climbing and cutting. While one might be able to control a saw through a cut under solid circumstance one does not stand a chance should the saw kickback. The saw will be coming. Learn the mechanics of cutting ( which is the title to my new book), pay attention to what is happening while it happens.

Anyway. You guys all still winter bored? I had to sit down for a second and waste a day. My knee if killing me but I will file some papers later. But I was think of a poll post which would be good to reflect on during these types of posts about one handing. It would be a poll post or something like that on who was cut? Just so we all know... and how. I think it would be a good idea.


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## DK_stihl (Jan 25, 2010)

*Bored*



treemandan said:


> I would say KEEP BOTH LOCKED ON THAT SON OF A BEECH. Nasty little ####ers those saws. Those builder dudes wanna act tough with their yellow Dewalt? They think their bad cause they shot a nail through their knee cap? That's Child's play, its for kids. None of that stuff is really gonna kill you.
> You got a swell chance on cutting your self either way so best to make sure you got it. Learn how to enage the break or shut if off while climbing and cutting. While one might be able to control a saw through a cut under solid circumstance one does not stand a chance should the saw kickback. The saw will be coming. Learn the mechanics of cutting ( which is the title to my new book), pay attention to what is happening while it happens.
> 
> Anyway. You guys all still winter bored? I had to sit down for a second and waste a day. My knee if killing me but I will file some papers later. But I was think of a poll post which would be good to reflect on during these types of posts about one handing. It would be a poll post or something like that on who was cut? Just so we all know... and how. I think it would be a good idea.



I've been way too busy to be bored, I have to work everyday.


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## DK_stihl (Jan 25, 2010)

Bermie said:


> One way to avoid the cut and hold is to try the 'reverse' snap cut.
> 
> Cut the tension wood first, then the compression wood, allow the piece to settle and just pinch the bar, chainbrake on, reach over and snap it off and chuck it down...The bar in the cut stops the piece snapping off on its own as long as you get the overlaps right.



Good trick, I'll have to give that one a try. Thanks.


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## Rftreeman (Jan 25, 2010)

Nailsbeats said:


> I do when I see the need and deem it a necessary skill to have. One handing and two handing carry different risks, learn to identify and mitigate them, instead of believing one will keep you safe and the other is bad. My 2cents.


yep, one handing a saw is like driving a car one handed, some can and some can't....me, I drive with one while cutting with the other (I actually used to do that while trimming from the bucket).........


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## Rftreeman (Jan 25, 2010)

clearance said:


> Cutting branches that are overhanging a line using snap cuts, I think not. I have two hands, I wish I had a tail, then I could use two hands. I don't want to get into another beef, but how much utility work have you done, on energized high voltage?


they just don't get it do they.......


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## ozzy42 (Jan 25, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> yep, one handing a saw is like driving a car one handed, some can and some can't....me, I drive with one while cutting with the other (I actually used to do that while trimming from the bucket).........



What about people that drive with their knees??

When I was growing up.A friend of my older brother wa a legend in his own mind because he could drive with his knees and roll a doobie at the same time.


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## Rftreeman (Jan 25, 2010)

ozzy42 said:


> What about people that drive with their knees??
> 
> When I was growing up.A friend of my older brother wa a legend in his own mind because he could drive with his knees and roll a doobie at the same time.


yep, some can and some can't....drive with their knees that is..


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## EdenT (Jan 25, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> yep, some can and some can't....drive with their knees that is..



Yeah, I used to find gear changes tricky, until the other appendage became prehensile.


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## beastmaster (Jan 26, 2010)

I started in this buisness 25+ years ago doing a lot of production work. We used those little echo top handle saws. I learned one handed. Thought that was the right way to use a top handle saw. I know to always keep my wits about what would happen if the saw should kick back, or fall through the cut etc. no matter if I am using a 200T one handed or a 084 two handed. Maybe for a home owner using a top handled saw is dangerous, but after many years of holding that saw all day I I fell I have the skill and control plus strength that its not a safety issue. Just my two cents.


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## Industry (Jan 26, 2010)

EdenT said:


> Ignoring the HV issue for the moment, what would your advice be to a young arborist who does not do power line work, if they asked you whether they should one hand a saw?



Same thing you would tell a 15yo kid with a fresh learners permit while he was climbing into an F1 car. You need to crawl before you challenge Marion Jones to a hundred yard footrace.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 26, 2010)

beastmaster said:


> after many years of holding that saw all day I I fell I have the skill and control plus strength that its not a safety issue. Just my two cents.



You just do not understand the forces involved. Everyone I know who has had an injury, or close call, had the same opinion.


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## Rftreeman (Jan 26, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> You just do not understand the forces involved. Everyone I know who has had an injury, or close call, had the same opinion.


they were probably being over confident and got hurt or had close calls, being over confident will get you hurt fast...


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 26, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> they were probably being over confident and got hurt or had close calls, being over confident will get you hurt fast...



I agree, If you do it, it's on you.
Jeff


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## Giel (Jan 27, 2010)

One-handing: as little as possible. If you need it you're not properly positioned in the tree. Not sure if OH-ing is the leading cause of accidents in tree-climbing work, but wouldn't be surprised if it were.

Cheers,

Giel


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## outofmytree (Jan 27, 2010)

Funny thing today is that this thread was in my head when I was pruning a Euc. I caught myself making a cut one handed too! And yes, upon reflection, all I needed to do was move to a better position and I could have done the cut safely.


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## treeslayer (Jan 27, 2010)

if I *HAD* to cut with both hands while climbing, I would :censored: quit.

The 200T is made and designed for one handed cutting, *if needed*. I two hand a lot of cuts, but I will always do what I do, when pruning or whittling, cutting small limbs, etc.....
I've run saws ALL my life ,since the age of 12, and yes I've cut myself. 
It hurt, I lived, I learned. 

this is a bandwagon covered in wienies, get on if you want, just don't harp that we have to use two hands. that's a crock of :censored:

for noobs, YES! for rookies, all things take time and practice. 
we are grown men doing a tough job. Don't tell me how, under the guise of safety
For Christ's sake, we climb dead trees.


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## outofmytree (Jan 28, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> if I *HAD* to cut with both hands while climbing, I would :censored: quit.
> 
> The 200T is made and designed for one handed cutting, *if needed*. I two hand a lot of cuts, but I will always do what I do, when pruning or whittling, cutting small limbs, etc.....
> I've run saws ALL my life ,since the age of 12, and yes I've cut myself.
> ...




Yes I am a wienie. Whatever that is. Yes I cut with 2 hands on my 200t.


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## treeslayer (Jan 28, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Yes I am a wienie. Whatever that is. Yes I cut with 2 hands on my 200t.


A broiled wienie right? hot down there as usual, I bet... 
Nah you're not necessarily one, if you cut that way as your style, more power to ya.

my point was doing it because you have too, because someone else says so.

the big point is securing my position with the off hand to the tree or rope, and making a safe cut, lowering requires a slower approach, but I do a lot of big removals, and really fly thru the tree whittling and bombing.
add 30 seconds to one minute to get in a secure 2 handed "stance" or position, and add up 50 to 100 cuts. couple of hours lost.
not me.

but I 2 hand all the time blocking, and cutting larger pieces, so I'm only a Vienna sausage kinda wienie......


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## outofmytree (Jan 28, 2010)

Ach, so you are ze spicy european kin~d. Yumzy!


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## treeslayer (Jan 28, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Ach, so you are ze spicy european kin~d. Yumzy!



thats not what you said to me at the arboristsite get together........ or was that the Tequila talking? :hmm3grin2orange:


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## ozzy42 (Jan 28, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Ach, so you are ze spicy european kin~d. Yumzy!





treeslayer said:


> thats not what you said to me at the arboristsite get together........ or was that the Tequila talking? :hmm3grin2orange:



:jawdrop:


Ok you two.
Getting a bit TMI
Maybe you guys should post PMs to each other .
This is a family forum.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## tree md (Jan 28, 2010)

I cut one handed a lot less than I used to.

When I was younger and sloppy I would one hand 90% of the time. I mainly used two hands when I was chunking the spar down. I was not as experienced at positioning as I am now. Plus I didn't know any better.

The more experience I gained, the more I realized how much effort was being saved when I got into an optimal position before making my cuts. Not only is it energy saving, it's safer.

I have had a couple of incidents where my saw has kicked back, on the ground and in the tree. It was very eye opening to me. No way to control it and no time to react. Things can go really bad really quick with a chainsaw in a tree. Luckily they were minor incidents and I was not hurt. 

Not saying that I don't still one hand the saw, I do, regularly. Anyone who does production climbing knows that it is unavoidable at times. However, when I do one hand I am very alert of the possibility of the saw kicking back and where in relation to my body the saw would impact if even the unlikely were to happen.

I just try to use common sense and remember that if I get careless and hurt myself I could be out of a job for a long time.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 28, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I agree, If you do it, it's on you.
> Jeff



Which is one of the points of ANSI Z, if an employee gets his face rearranged, like the fella who posted last year, then the company may have an astronomical liability. Following the standard may protect you some, and gives grounds for letting people go who are unsafe.

For the employee it is to protect you from unethical taskmasters who follow the false economy of production over safety.

A chainsaw injury is a prime example of the old saw that one aw#### will wipe out a thousand atta-boys. One hander Otto can be the highest producer in the company, but if he turns himself into onehand Otto then all the profit from the increased production goes to the doctors and lawyers.



> they were probably being over confident and got hurt or had close calls, being over confident will get you hurt fast...



My point exactly! If you one-hand more often then not you *are* being overconfident, maybe even incompetent. A competent climber can learn to work in a manner which is both safe *and* productive


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## airman (Jan 29, 2010)

there's no debate about it. use it when necessary and practical, be careful.


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## Rftreeman (Jan 29, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Which is one of the points of ANSI Z, if an employee gets his face rearranged, like the fella who posted last year


they shouldn't have put their face in danger zone where this could happen, it's like using a gun, don't pull the trigger until you have it in a safe position rather it be one hand or two......just because someone has two hands on the saw does mean it *can't * happen.....it's all about control...there's just some people who should never have a saw in their hands to start with...



> A competent climber can learn to work in a manner which is both safe *and* productive


he can also learn to do it one handed, this was proper training years ago and that is how I was trained, know what you're doing and never put yourself in a position to be cut and it won't happen, plain & simple....I cut my leg a few years ago, why, because I put my leg in a position to be cut, I got lazy....it won't happen again I can bet you that..


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 29, 2010)

airman said:


> there's no debate about it. use it when necessary and practical, be careful.



I agree with the necessary, but practical gives the lazy worker or immoral taskmaster the latitude to push production over safe practice.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 29, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> just because someone has two hands on the saw does mean it *can't * happen.....it's all about control...



True, and you have more control when two hands are on the machine.

You got lucky, your injury was not a game changer for you. Saw handling is like tying in, a little slip in the repetition can be a life changing experiance. The only close calls I have had with a chainsaw were on the ground doing storm-work. IM(ns)HO the reason I have never had an incident in the tree is because I combine body positioning with proper saw handling. 

The one-handed use should be the exception, not SOP.


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## outofmytree (Jan 31, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> The one-handed use should be the exception, not SOP.



:agree2:


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## beastmaster (Feb 3, 2010)

I wasn't even aware that there was an issue with one handed saw use tell I started seeing the debates here. I haven,t traveled much and besides the internet don't interact much with other climbers. I am a local guy. But locally I have worked for lots of people over the years and the whole one handed thing comes as a surprise to me. I am amazed I've been doing it wrong(and everyone I ever worked with)all my professional life.(little bit of sarcasm there) I respect the views of most people on this board, and I have been using my 200t two handed more then I use to, but some times one handed cutting is part of what makes me a professional. Lucky for me I work for a company that I rarely even use a saw in a tree unless its a removal. If I worked for a company that prohibited one handed cutting I would trade my top handle saw for a rear handle saw so the temptation wouldn't be there I guess. I thought brakes on saws were crazy and those safety clips a pain in the a__ when they were first interduced, but have learned to appreciate them, so keep up the debates I'm listening.(Don't get me started on anti kick back safety chain .)


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 3, 2010)

beastmaster said:


> Don't get me started on anti kick back safety chain .)



I call that home owner chain


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 3, 2010)

Here, those chains have a green drive link, the good one's have a yellow drive link. Has anyone heard a rumor that Stihl is going to stop making the "yellow"?
Jeff


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## ozzy42 (Feb 4, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Here, those chains have a green drive link, the good one's have a yellow drive link. Has anyone heard a rumor that Stihl is going to stop making the "yellow"?
> Jeff



I don't see them doing that unless mandated by gov. to do so .

People would simply buy other brands.


It would sure suck to have to modify every new chain before installing it,
wich is exactly what we would all do.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 4, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Here, those chains have a green drive link, the good one's have a yellow drive link. Has anyone heard a rumor that Stihl is going to stop making the "yellow"?
> Jeff



Probably California is prohibiting the sale 

I cannot see it either, too many companies use the RS


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