# T S D ??



## ASD (Oct 21, 2007)

so any one can be a sponsor even a co. that charges for leads on jobs that never happen and for people that are "just wondering what it might cost as i do not want it done any time soon" it also makes me mad that they will put unlicensed people on their site !! just what i want to do is pay to compete the unlicensed hacks :angry2: :angry2: 

how many of you people use T S D and are happy with them we used them for about two years and think they do not run a good site and often wondered if they are on the up and up ??? as all most all of the leads we got were not worth getting ??


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## ATH (Oct 21, 2007)

I have been on there for about a year. I think I have 3 referrals in that time. None turned into jobs...but they are pretty cheap. A couple were large removals which I try to stay away from. The other was more of a 'normal' bid. I haven't been back by, but I would not be surprised if they ended up having the trees topped -- just based on the general feeling I got.

I figured if I have to pay them for 5-6 referals to get one job that is probably still a better deal than the Yellow Pages.

I am not sure it is a bad company. I think they just chickened out of deciding who the "real" trimmers are and who the hacks are, so they just offer to list everybody.

I normally have a diagnostic fee, and don't advertise free estimates. With TSD, I have to do free estimates. If I were getting 3-4 requests a week for free estimates I'd probably remove myself. Not an annoyance enough for me remove my company. Not sure I would recommend them either.


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## Darin (Oct 22, 2007)

Yeah, I have used similar lead referrals like service magic. I did have to very competitive, but if I got one job out of 5-6 like ATH said, I figured it was worth it as that referral usually gave me more business from neighbors. Phone book is expensive.
Darin


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## mckeetree (Oct 22, 2007)

TSD is not a very good deal. I don't mean the price, it is cheap enough, but the leads you get are 100% pure sh#t. I need to call and de-sign.


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## Darin (Oct 22, 2007)

How long ago did you do it?


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## ASD (Oct 22, 2007)

WE JUST STOPPED ABOUT A MONTH AGO BEST THING WE EVER DID


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## Xtra (Oct 23, 2007)

I'm one of T S D 's longest clients (since 6/04) and one of the first in NJ.

In the beginning their leads were like found money!
The past two years things have gotten bad. Too many tire-kickers asking to trim a small shrub or remove a small branch. 

Also, the homeowners give you too little time to respond. They just have to click one box to send a free estimate request to all the companies in their area.

Lately, the number of companies they allow in my area has gotten out of control. They now list 8 companies in my county. So one click has us all us responding to the same job. 

The plus side of joining them . . . the price you pay per lead is cheap and some can turn into large projects, although you'll have to quote rock-bottom prices.


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## Darin (Oct 23, 2007)

They don't limit the leads to three? Does the homeowner get a little testy when 8 guys come to give them a quote? There are other one's where the first 3 to respond gets the lead. That is fair too. Prices are low true. Like I said I always got good referrals out of the neighbors.


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## ddhlakebound (Oct 23, 2007)

I was disappointed to see TSD as an ArboristSite sponsor. Though I've never used them, I did check into their service at one point, and wasn't terribly impressed. 

So far I've never heard any positive feedback about them from anyone, though I'm sure it's possible I'm not looking in the right places. 

I have heard enough negative feedback about them to know that at this point in time, and in the near future, my young growing company won't be using their services. 

The reason I was disappointed to see them as a sponsor is because I'd hoped that ArboristSite, with it's huge membership base, and mighty search engine rankings, would at some point create it's own directory of arborists, tree services and related contractors. 

The ArboristSite Tree Care Directory (or whatever it's name would be) would be far more beneficial to ArboristSite, it's members, and everyone who used the service to find a tree care contractor.

Here's how...

For ArboristSite:

While I have no idea how much money TSD's sponsorship is worth to AS, I feel quite confident that the annual membership dues to be listed in the directory could be many times the amount TSD's sponsorship brings in. (If only 20 companies registered from each state, at $20/yr membership....$20,000. This doesn't even consider international listings.) It would also serve to increase the rate of new memberships, which brings in more advertising revenue, and most likely more directory listings. 

For ArboristSite's members:

AS's high level of exposure could make this directory successful right off the bat. It's hard to imagine how many people are looking for a contractor and would use this directory. After all, its difficult to run a search about trees, and NOT end up here. It's not hard to imagine the benefits of picking up a dozen more days of work because my new customer found me on The ArboristSite Tree Care Directory. 

For potential customers everywhere:

First, coming here to find a contractor will invariably help them to learn what good tree care is. The ArboristSite Tree Care Directory could ensure that they are getting a legitimate licensed, insured company to serve them. Each listing in the directory could have a comment section, where customers could provide feedback about the company they used for future customers to see.


There are difficulties and drawbacks, but with planning, thought, and the community spirit which has brought AS to this point, they can be overcome for the benefit of everyone involved, including the trees. 

Or am I dreaming?


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## Darin (Oct 23, 2007)

I see where you are coming from, but I did have a directory at one time, but No body cared about it and the other problem was for me...policing it. I think it could work and would love it to work, but I would need the members backing which I never received. So with TSD having deeper pockets, it was a good fit for them to do it for AS. I also think it can be done, but it takes a ton of time to track companies. When their insurance runs out. Their certifications. You could have it set up to only get bids from companies with ISA certificate, Insurance etc. So you wouldn't waste your time going to the house if he didn't care about that, he cared about price. With anything else, I am sure TSD has some growing to do. I don't think it's unfixable. With any business, it will have to grow, and fix things that people are unsatisfied with. I have the same problem from time to time.


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## Xtra (Oct 23, 2007)

Yep, all 8 can respond.
(Bergen County, NJ lists 10 companies!)

There's a check box that states "select all to receive competitive quotes"

Homeowners testy? . . . they love it!
One FREE click and they can price shop a bunch of companies, no looking thru the phone book and calling.
The homeowners usually go with the first company to come out and rarely return your phone call if it isn't within a few hours of them submitting their request.

The site is geared for the homeowner, but they make their profits from the tree companies. Your company is listed by county. My county is very large and I don't cover the whole area, but I must pay for any quote requested in my county.

Like I said before, their site started out great and I would quote almost a dozen requests a week and get at least 70% of the jobs (there were only 2-3 companies listed). Now my close rate is about 30%.

Also, their web placement is not as strong as it once was.

It's a good site for the start-up company who has a lot of time to be quoting or the company that has a salesperson.

[hopefully no repercussions for being honest]


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## Xtra (Oct 23, 2007)

This discussion about T S D made me curious to check out my competition.

One of the companies list in their description . . .
" We Beat Competitors Prices "

No wonder I'm losing bids.


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## Ekka (Oct 23, 2007)

Darin is right.

What if a home-owner gets a referral from here, and that person busts something and doesn't fix it or is out of insurance ... it then reflects on Darin. If Darin makes the claim "all our contractors are checked for insurance and certification" then he is in a bigger legal minefield.

Over here I was voluntarily put into one of these types of places, they SMS you the lead. I rang the lead and got chatting, I was the 5th guy to call so didn't bother.

There's no shortage of these "one click 3 free quotes" scams, cost a whole $50 to set one up. And they are a scam, only there to make a buck! Do they contribute to arb discussion? Do they actively engage the community for better tree care? Do they give a stuff? NO!

In times where already you do far too much for free, run around, give advice you now cop the royal shafting by some 0.02 website.

I wouldn't support any place that suggests you get 3 free quotes, they can bugger off, some of us studied for years to know what we do and places like that wouldn't give a hoot.

When people call you because you are known or they like what you write or do then you'll start getting better bids not some cheapskate.


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## TSD (Nov 8, 2007)

*TSD is Here to Respond!!!*

Sorry for the delay in responding, I just found this post today.

I see that some of you have some Issues with TSD and I wanted to explain things and the industry that we are in so everything is understood completely.

First Darin is Right, Things change and there is room to grow... The biggest problem with keeping up with certifications, insurance, local state / city / etc... Permitting and all the other things that go along with it are manpower and the ability to police it.

I agree with ASD why would you want to "compete against the unlicensed hacks" But in this industry the woods are full of them, No matter what means you use to advertise, more than other industries and the policing is so great that we leave it up to the Consumer to make good choices. We have notices to the consumers telling them to check their local requirements, ask for insurance etc.... We do let them know, to help them make an informed decision about hiring a professional to do the work. 

Would you not advertise in the Yellow Pages if there where unlicensed people in it? They don't check, they just want the money to put your ad on yellow paper and guarantee you no results. TSD does guarantee results or you don't have to pay anything.

Trust me when I say, we don't want them either "The Hacks", and when we find them, we cut them off.

We are diligently working towards a solution to this very problem...... 



To the leads are %100 pure *hit comment from mckeetree

If that were true we would have no members. We still have our first member that signed up in 2003.

For Example: Service Magic Leads are the same people that browse the internet for Tree Service vs. TSD Customers. They are not in different classes or better customers. Customer want the best price possible, many of them don't care if an Arborist is Certified / Insured / Bonded or anything, They just want the Tree DOWN, usually as cheap as possible. This goes for 60-75% (or more) of all consumers whether they call your Yellow Page AD, Newspaper AD, Craig list AD, or see a TV spot you have.

We have a VERY EASY policy for leads that you feel are Invalid, crap, scammers, spam anything you cannot bid on. You just log into your account and report it as Invalid, we delete them daily no questions asked.

TSD was started in August of 2003, since then we have grown to over 1000 active members, we have been through and disabled more than 2000 members because of complaints by customers, lawsuits, tree service scams ect...,Many Involving State DA's and Consumer Affairs. Many where on insured and state licensed tree companies. On the Internet for some reason they want to involve the referrer when there is a problem. If the a Consumer had a problem with someone they had used out of the Phone Book, do you think they would call the Phone Company / Newspaper / TV Station and complain?????

This is a VERY TOUGH business, In the past 4 years that the site has come up, we have seen 30 or 40 other sites come and go, we have always maintained a strong member base, good search engine placement, and loads of Consumers And Tree Service Companies Thanking us for the service.

Currently our price is $8 a lead. Service Magic is $18-$30 depending on your Market. *Same Internet, Same People.*

We work hard to connect Tree Services and Consumers instantly. We don't cold call people to create requests or Make up leads... Nothing of that kind, we solely rely on search engines, and Marketing like ArboristSite.com I thought that I was making a Great decision by joining AS to help consumers and Tree Service Companies alike.

Internet directories are a dime a dozen these days, They are EVERYWHERE. We strive to stay on top, you have to be aggressive with you Internet advertising to stay ahead of all the other competition. The Arborist Site Tree Care Directory would be a great Idea. I would like to team up and do it. The only problem with the numbers is that 20k/Yr would Only keep the site going strong for about a 5 day to 7 days.

Hopefully some of our faithful members will have something to add to this.

If there are Any Questions, Please feel free to let Me Know.

Ryan
TreeServiceDirect.Com


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## Ekka (Nov 9, 2007)

> On the Internet for some reason they want to involve the referrer when there is a problem. If the a Consumer had a problem with someone they had used out of the Phone Book, do you think they would call the Phone Company / Newspaper / TV Station and complain?????



This alone is the ALARM bells. And yes, they do call those other places and biarch and moan. They are your problem consumers a lot of the time, the people who want the best but cheapest, professional whiners.

For internet users to find TSD it's just as likely they'll find your site.

Invest in yourtreebusiness.com not another *and pay nothing for leads.*

If ya stuck, want great SEO that blows competitiors out of the water ... I can help, I know my stuff, and I certainly wouldn't part a dime to the likes of TSD, yellow pages etc.

*Build your business not theirs.*

For $100 USD a year you can get hosting of 3000gb of bandwidth and 300gb of storage, that's about what those sites are worth.

Google is even hand filtering and pissing off these directories including the likes of Yellow Pages, the days are numbered, heed my warning, build your own presence or take the fate of a dinosaur.

Think about it, when you want a service and Google it, you want to see what companies are there and their websites and what they offer .... the people who dont want to see that go to places like TSD etc, fill in a generic form and *price shop.*

Think I'm full of chit? Try this link, it's a *global search* for "treelopping" which is the major keyword search by Australians for tree work. Who is #1? Me.

http://www.google.com/search?q=tree...ent-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGGL,GGGL:2006-35,GGGL:en

You too can do it, and that my friends is building your business not theirs... FREE!


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