# handgun to take to the woods



## Dustyw

I was wanting some opinions on wich handgun to get to take to the woods when cutting firewood. We have had some problems lately with wild dogs and tonight my wive tells me that this afternoon there was a blonde colored dog up by the shop. I googled coyote and she said thats the dog I saw earlier. I want something for a peace of mind even though my 660 would protect me from anything around here. I'm thinking stainless cuz I want to throw it in the gator and not worry about scratches. I had my eye on the taurus judge liking the ability to shoot a. 410 gauge shell out of a pistol. I have been reading some mixed reviews about it though. Any opinions are welcomed.


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## Turkeyslayer

If you take a gator with you, just take a 12 gauge shotgun with buck shot. It will have more range than a judge.


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## husqvarnaguy

Put a machine gun on top of the gator. You would not need a chainsaw anymore. I have used the judge and it is pretty good but I would just go to walmart and get a little break action 20 gauge with some buck shot.


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## NDtreehugger

coyotes for the most part will avoid humans.

Around here some use 222. I like my 22mag, works fine in rifle and pistol alike. For defense a good gun is the 410 if you’re around population, if not 12 gauge. 

If you’re good with a pistol Id go with 22mag, but like I said if you’re around population stay with the shot gun, no need for the bullet to do fly bys.


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## Dustyw

I do have a small mini cannon. 50 cal. Shoots 1/2" lead balls really good. Maybe I could mount that on the gator with a swivel. Might need some faster burning wicks though.


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## Jim Timber

Stainless isn't a requirement even if it won't be coddled, just don't get parkerized and the gun should be fine. If you want something smaller than a rifle/shotgun, then get a cheap 9mm police trade in or plastic gun. There's some decent little CZ clones that can be had for under $400 new, or you could get a police trade in for 300ish depending what model.

Just looked this up: EAA Witness Polymer 9mm 4.5" 16+1 $294.00 SHIPS FREE I'd jump all over that if I wanted another beater.

I personally carry on me at all times, but often it's just a ruger SR 22 pistol in the woods. I've never had bear stick around (only black bears here), and like the pocket size of the little .22 and the fact it's light enough not to notice carrying it (it lives in my back pocket often). It won't drop a wolf in one shot, but it will put a hole in them deep enough to make them give up.

Wheel guns are fine too, but you want to go with something that has a good sight radius. I can't hit a small animal with my .38 snubby farther than about 20', while I can hit a chipmunk at 30 with the ruger.


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## REJ2

Talk about paranoia, blonde dog or coyote? News talks about a father shooting his own son thinking he was a burglar, might have been since he was masked. Dumb ####, both of them. Never seen a coyote try to accost a human. You got nothing to worry about WHILE cutting. Pets around your home, different story.


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## TriCountyLawn

My favorite woods long gun is a 44mag lever action, or a M1a haha, Far as handguns go my flavor is glock. 

These guys are fun in the woods too.


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## Jim Timber

Yote's around me don't scare me - I'm out to kill them from the start.  I agree, they won't approach people at work (ours will follow you - I've caught one on camera doing so), but they will investigate out of curiosity.

Wolves are a possible problem, but not often on my land outside of winter roaming looking for food. I carry to dispatch animals I don't want around: skunks, porky's, coons, chipmunks... I've never regretted having a gun on me.


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## JHctRednek

I would pass on the judge, the 410 shot out of a judge is about useless for anything other than snakes. Beyond 7 ft its not doing much. I know you said handgun but I agree with the shotgun guys or an AR in carbine form (I keep one in the dump truck in the woods). 

If your stuck on a handgun then I would get a police trade in, usually they are carried more then they are shot an go pretty cheap. A 9mm will take down an yote around 40 is better, I carry an old Ruger P89 in the woods when the truck is too far away, I am proicient with it out to 50yds. 

I guess what ever you choose my best advice for ya is to be proficient with it! 
Certain things should become second nature to you when you use your carry piece for efficiency and safety. Know the safety, know how to strip it and know where it shoots at various ranges. 

Best of luck


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## derwoodii

consider lite fast with punch holds a heap, dear wife can cover n use while you work that 660

[video=youtube;ti9bs-7ES2M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti9bs-7ES2M&feature=related[/video]


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## Jim Timber

I'd stay away from .40 personally. That's what my beater S&W 4003 is (police explorer's gun: lots of beating and maybe 50 rounds through it before I bought it), and it's the only .40 I own. The ammo costs too much for what marginal gains it has over 9mm. If you want more punch then go to .45 - that's what I carry. It's easier to shoot and ammo is easier to find than .40. Even the police are dumping .40 because of the sharp recoil.

That gun lives in a drawer in my shop. It's nothing but a SHTF hold out if someone were dumb enough to come find me out there. Maybe someday I'll use it as a durakote experiment.


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## fubar2

I'd get something big enough to take down a bigfoot. In case one comes sniffing around to see what all the shootin and chainsaw runnin is about.


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## Encore

I have a glock .40 that I carry. Super durable gun. 

I've run into some weird stuff back in the woods before. Never had to pull and it's not something I make a big deal about, but I do tend to carry it. I started carrying it (after the CCW course lol) when I began selling stuff on craigslist a lot. Another place you'll run into some weird stuff.


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## ancy

I have a Judge and love it. Only gun I like to leave with the wife. Does a number on these...





Sent from my XT881 using Tapatalk 2


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## wagz

i'd suggest taking bear spray and stop killing animals just for the sake of it. acting like it's 1920 :/


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## ancy

wagz said:


> i'd suggest taking bear spray and stop killing animals just for the sake of it. acting like it's 1920 :/



So wild dogs have there place?? People like you let them go out in the country because you don't have the balls to put them down when needed!

Sent from my XT881 using Tapatalk 2


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## Jim Timber

Ever seen what a yote does to fawns? Ever seen what a coon does to bird nests? Ever seen what a porky does to a 400yr old oak? Ever smelled skunk?  Skunks also attract yotes. Chipmunks eat mast food that I'd rather feed my deer, turkey, and tree rats.

Killing to change the population characteristics and helping desirable species over undesirable ones is not shooting for the sake of watching something die. There's calculated reasons for it when I pull the trigger.


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## Garmins dad

I keep a Marlin 39a lever action 22 rifle in my gator.. Yoties be dammed.. The farmer next door doesn't shoot em fast enough.. so i do it for her when i get the chance..


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## dingeryote

wagz said:


> i'd suggest taking bear spray and stop killing animals just for the sake of it. acting like it's 1920 :/




Uhoh....PETA found us, and brought the facts about animals signing a non aggression treaty in 1930.:msp_w00t:

:help:

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Jim Timber

Hey, I belong to PETA!!

People Eating Tasty Animals :msp_tongue:

I think we need some blood in this thread now.












Different deer - showing 120gr Nosler Partition hole





Wolf in the area





Sparrows in your attic? Trap them!





And be sure to start them young.


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## Whitespider

Which handgun?

I have a standard answer for any question like that... not just in the woods, but for any purpose.
Take the one you shoot well and can hit your target with... anything else might as well be a rock.


Do you own and practice with handguns now? 'Cause if you don't... well, don't bother buying one for woods bummin' 'cause there ain't no way you'll be able to hit anything anyway, specially under stress. Shooting at a beer can, at known distance, while standing in your yard, wearing comfortable shirt sleeves ain't the same as shooting at something live in the woods, with alternating light and shadows, at unknown distance, while wearing work cloths, coveralls, jackets and such.

If you're gonna' "_throw it in the Gator_" why bother with a handgun? See, to me, that makes no sense at all. Handguns are short, light, compact, handy and relatively easy to carry on the person while keeping both hands free, but the trade-off is they're more difficult to hit with... and require a ton of discipline and a whole lot of practice just to be a half-decent shot. If you're gonna' "_throw it in the Gator_" get something more advantageous... like a shotgun or rifle.

Personally when I'm working outdoors I like a short, compact, yet relatively powerful handgun on my belt... most often I carry a snub nose, 5-shot, .44 Special revolver in a leather holster just behind my hip out'a the way. If I'm not gonna' be as active, such as fishing along the river, I carry a 4-inch, 6-shot .357 Magnum right on the hip, and when I'm just woods-bummin' I carry a 5-inch .44 Magnum. Auto-loaders are fine, but normally they aren't as robust and accurate as a good revolver... I only carry a auto-loader when wearing "street" cloths because they're a bit easier to conceal.

I'm a damn good shot with a handgun, and I practice often. But I'll tell you this... when I look out the window and "see" something that needs to be dispatched, I grab a rifle or shotgun on the way out the door. I carry a handgun because it's always handy and accessible... but if I had to take the time to walk over to the Gator... well then, I'd be lookin' for a long gun.


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## benp

Whitespider said:


> Which handgun?
> 
> I have a standard answer for any question like that... not just in the woods, but for any purpose.
> Take the one you shoot well and can hit your target with... anything else might as well be a rock.
> 
> 
> Do you own and practice with handguns now? 'Cause if you don't... well, don't bother buying one for woods bummin' 'cause there ain't no way you'll be able to hit anything anyway, specially under stress. Shooting at a beer can, at known distance, while standing in your yard, wearing comfortable shirt sleeves ain't the same as shooting at something live in the woods, with alternating light and shadows, at unknown distance, while wearing work cloths, coveralls, jackets and such.
> 
> If you're gonna' "_throw it in the Gator_" why bother with a handgun? See, to me, that makes no sense at all. Handguns are short, light, compact, handy and relatively easy to carry on the person while keeping both hands free, but the trade-off is they're more difficult to hit with... and require a ton of discipline and a whole lot of practice just to be a half-decent shot. If you're gonna' "_throw it in the Gator_" get something more advantageous... like a shotgun or rifle.
> 
> Personally when I'm working outdoors I like a short, compact, yet relatively powerful handgun on my belt... most often I carry a snub nose, 5-shot, .44 Special revolver in a leather holster just behind my hip out'a the way. If I'm not gonna' be as active, such as fishing along the river,* I carry a 4-inch, 6-shot .357 Magnum* right on the hip, and when I'm just woods-bummin' I carry a 5-inch .44 Magnum. Auto-loaders are fine, but normally they aren't as robust and accurate as a good revolver... I only carry a auto-loader when wearing "street" cloths because they're a bit easier to conceal.
> 
> I'm a damn good shot with a handgun, and I practice often. But I'll tell you this... when I look out the window and "see" something that needs to be dispatched, I grab a rifle or shotgun on the way out the door. I carry a handgun because it's always handy and accessible... but if I had to take the time to walk over to the Gator... well then, I'd be lookin' for a long gun.



This is exactly what I was going to suggest. A 4" 357 and imo either a Ruger or older Smith.


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## Blazin

450 Marlin, 350gr of excitement to handle anything from chipmunks to bigfoot


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## greendohn

*22 head shot fail/9mm body shot fail*

I've seen the 22 fail to dispatch a dog. It was a head shot from about 6 to 8 feet.

The 9mm failed with multiple body shots from close range on a dog, sure it ran off to die, but it wasn't effective in a clean kill. I didn't agree with what happened that day. Yeah, it was obviously an abandoned animal needing put to sleep, it shoulda' been done cleanly.

Any animal being dispatched should be done so 1) only when necessary
and
2) cleanly/quickly/humanely

I've also seen a 180 lb. man survive 2, 40 cal. shots to the upper abdomen/chest area. One round is still in him, looks like a star fish on x-ray.

I hate vermin as much as the next guy but we owe it to our gun loving selves to dispatch them cleanly so they don't run off to be found by the peta crowd.

We had a "Constipation Officer" from the DNR running around here a few summers ago playing #### Tracy looking for the person who dispatched a cat which was found locally.

for "tossin' in the gator" why not a 12 gauge w/double 00 shot. If your target has run off before you can get a shot on 'im,,he wasn't any bother any how. :taped:


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## redheadwoodshed

The OP mentioned the Judge, I think it is overpriced.I like my .22 revolver.With that said, I wouldn't worry about dogs or coyotes unless they are rabid, in which case I would want to be throwing bukshot at them.


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## Rudedog

I'm with benp and Whitespider. A .357 revolver or .45 semi auto if you will ever need to wear it. Otherwise a used Winchester pump action 12 ga shotgun can be had pretty cheap and will even dispatch your occassional Big Foot and/or Zombies.


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## Whitespider

Yep, buckshot is very effective on 4-legged critters weighing under 100 pounds (ain't no slouch on two-legged vermin of any weight either). But don't get stuck on the almighty double-ought, for most large dog-sized critters #2 or #4 buck is a much better load... more pellets, more hits. It's not uncommon for #00 to only put one of those .32 caliber pellets on target when shooting at a dog-sized critter out past 20-25 yards... and unless that pellet luckily hits something vital, the critter just runs away. A load of #2 or #4 buck carries a lot more pellets (and most guns hold them in a better pattern) which will put multiple hits on target... worst case if it don't kill instantly, it will anchor the critter long enough for the _coup de grâce_.

I use a lot of #2 buckshot for large vermin control, and #2 birdshot for small(er) vermin (cat-sized).


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## whatscooking

Get a MD57 which is a Tokarve chambered in a 7.62x25, they say it will penerate better than a .357 or a 44 mag and you can pick one up for a good price.


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## benp

While that may be true for the ball ammo, I don't know about the hollow points for the Tok. 

For defense I want hollow points and in areas where I might be the prey, I want heavy cast clown stoppers. 

The 357 covers a decent spectrum and loaded with a good hp, it's very formidable with a good selection of ammo to choose from. 

Just my .02.


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## Dustyw

I am not going out hunting coyotes but if I see one with a chance to kill it I would like to have a chance to. I don't want no coyote or wild dogs around with my 5 year old son playing outside. Maybe the term "throwing it the gator" wasnt the right choice of words. Not saying that it would't happen, but wearing it makes much more sense. I haven't shot many handguns before but I would like to start. I would like to even get my conceal carry permit sometime. Sometimes my daughter and I will go back to the woods and sit in my brothers tree stand and just watch. Times like that I feel if something (human or animal) would happen, I would feel pretty damm helpless. I dont want or need anything big enough to take down bigfoot, but I do believe I saw one once.


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## mdavlee

Coyotes can chase humans if they're hungry enough or think you're a small animal calling in another one. I've had them come within 20 yards of my house when I lived farther out in the boonies. I always like to go out with a weapon of some sort when I'm walking in the woods. Bears, panthers, and coyotes are out there and can be curious if you're not making too much noise and sometimes will come investigate a lot of noise.


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## Whitespider

Dustyw said:


> *I haven't shot many handguns before but I would like to start.*



Fine... start. Personally I believe everyone should be at least reasonably proficient with a handgun.
But in the interim get a good reliable 12 gauge pump shotgun... you're at least a year away of 3-times-a-week practice during all sorts of weather and lighting conditions before you can count on hitting anything with a handgun under field conditions. When you can reliably hit a beer can at 50 yards during practice, you can be reasonably sure of hitting a dog-sized target (in the small heart/lung kill zone) at 25 yards field conditions. I've seen darn good 15 yard beer can shooters completely miss a deer standing broadside at 10 yards. To hit reliably with a handgun requires a lot of discipline and practice, practice, practice... and then some more practice. If you can't hit what you're aiming at, you might just as well carry a sack of rocks... they'd be more effective. Most often field conditions only offer one shot, and then for only a handful of seconds to get it off, and get it off accurately... you won't have time to get into the perfect stance and carefully line up the sights, you'll have to pull, point, check sight alignment and press the trigger without "jerking" in one single smooth motion. Wiggling the muzzle of a handgun just a tiny fraction-of-an-inch will put the shot well over a foot off target down range.

Discipline and practice.


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## savageactor7

We have both revolvers and semi's...{{{plural}}}

Coyotes here are presently only a nuisance to pedestrians close to dusk...sometimes they kind of flank you as your move through the woods.

I'd carry a 5 shot .38 chiefs special in that situation. Revolvers pretty much will fire absolutely all the time. Unlike semi's they're pretty much fail safe and with the wood chips flying all the time...who knows. After all you're trying to make production, right?

Of coarse right now here Coyotes are more of less just kind of scary, after all they are wild dogs, but so far they have left humanity alone. 

...and yeah they wake you up in the middle of the night too.


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## slowp

These woods are so dangerous. I'd pack a 50 calibur or however you spell it machine gun, heck, I wouldn't pack, why not drive a tank around? You won't have room to haul much wood inside, but maybe you could hook up a trailer and haul some, or a line and skid some. You'd be safe from all them wiley coyotes, roadrunners, grizzlies, wolvies, black bears, cougars, sasquatches, fairies, gnomes, mad deer, crazy moose--there's a moose lodge down the highway, not to mention all them bad bad neighbors that folks here live next to. 

Don't know how I ever survived! 

For coyotes? Get a 22 and plink at them once in a while to keep them afraid of people. That is, if you live out in the sticks where there is topography and trees to stop the bullets from hitting buildings, people, cars, etc. 

Actually, that pepper spray might be better than a gun. According to studies done in Alaska, folks with pepper spray survived grizzly/brown bear encounters in better shape than those with guns. Get the formula made for bears and be sure to be upwind. Don't use it to spice up food, either.


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## Turkeyslayer

For the most part coyotes dont bother me at all. I do a fair amount of walking and/or hunting around here, and during turkey hunting I have even been known to fall asleep while leaning against a big tree in the woods. I am not sure if I have shared this story on here before but this is something that happened to a friend and I 2 years ago. A friend was bow hunting at the back of a large farm along the edge of a very large ravine. He shot a small 6 point buck right at dusk and made the mistake of getting out of his stand to early after the shot. The deer was bedded down about 20 yards to the north of him, and when he climbed down it spooked into the ravine. By the time he got back out to his truck and called me about an hour had passed, and by the time I got there about another hour had passed.

So we take his quad and 1 flashlight back to the spot it ran into the ravine. Now he had only been to this spot once before and I had never been there, so I suggested leaving the quad running with the lights on so we could find it again in the dark. We started into the ravine following the blood trail and as we got away from the quad we could hear 2 distinct packs of coyotes howling, one to the north and one to the south. No big deal we hear coyotes all the time in the bush. While as we worked our way down into the ravine we could here both packs of coyotes getting closer, still not a big deal. While we tracked our way down to the edge of a cedar swamp, there was a small knoll between us and the swamp. All of a sudden we hear the coyotes about 30-40 yards away in the thick cedars over the knoll. They are snarling and barking and the deer is doing the death bleat in the same area. Ok now what to do? We dont have a gun. Will the coyotes defend their "kill". As we were discussing what to do I could hear movement around us. We were in pretty thick bush and couldnt see anything, but there were 5 distinct movements around us. I said to my friend (as I grabbed a club) I thought it was time to leave, and come back in the daylight with a gun. He took off running the direction we came. I had a laugh because he is Mr. fitness and I figured he was leaving the chubby smoker (me) behind for bait.

We went back the next day with a gun. We found blood and fur but no carcass. Valuable lesson learned that night. Always take a gun while tracking wounded deer.


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## CWME

WS is giving you good advice on handgun shooting. It takes a lot of practice to get proficient with a handgun in various situations.

If you want to start shooting a handgun and learning I would suggest a Ruger MK I, II, or III in 22 long rifle. These pistols are very tough and cheap to shoot with the .22LR chambering. A centerfire handgun would rack up a pretty decent ammo bill to get you proficient.

I gennerally carry a Ruger LCP in .380 everywhere I go. Not the best handgun for any situation but I have it and that is better than no handgun.


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## captndavie

CWME said:


> WS is giving you good advice on handgun shooting. It takes a lot of practice to get proficient with a handgun in various situations.
> 
> If you want to start shooting a handgun and learning I would suggest a Ruger MK I, II, or III in 22 long rifle. These pistols are very tough and cheap to shoot with the .22LR chambering. A centerfire handgun would rack up a pretty decent ammo bill to get you proficient.
> 
> I gennerally carry a Ruger LCP in .380 everywhere I go. Not the best handgun for any situation but I have it and that is better than no handgun.



I love my Ruger 22! They are great little pistols.


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## Turkeyslayer

If you can find a good used Hi Standard .22 they are very accurate handguns. As said above a .22 is the cheapest way to train with a handgun. A .357 is also a good choice because you can train with cheaper .38 ammo. I personally prefer .45acp in a 1911 style platform, in most cases 1911 style guns fit large hands. I highly recommend going to your local gun store and holding a range of handguns before purchasing, and buy what feels best in your hand. All handguns fit individuals different.


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## AIM

Whitespider said:


> you're at least a year away of 3-times-a-week practice during all sorts of weather and lighting conditions before you can count on hitting anything with a handgun under field conditions.



If it takes anybody a year and a half of practice they have no business shooting a gun ever.


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## wagz

if a large predator actually attacked, 99% of the population wouldn't shoot accurately. especially a kill shot on a fast moving target. the movies are the movies. 

people shooting predators like coyotes and wild dogs are the main reason so many people hit deer with their cars. senseless killing of predators has done nothing positive and unbalances the food chain in a negative way. it's 2012. please act like it. 

i've been backpacking for many years and have yet to have a negative experience with any animal. worried about your child? maybe stay with them and teach them safety in the wildnerness. i'm more worried about trigger happy drunk hillbillies who think they are billy badass b/c they shot a skunk shooting me when i'm out than any wild animal.

it has nothing to do with peta or being a #####. it's really just about being educated and respecting the planet.

so again, i'd recommend the bear spray...


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## redheadwoodshed

slowp said:


> These woods are so dangerous. I'd pack a 50 calibur or however you spell it machine gun, heck, I wouldn't pack, why not drive a tank around? You won't have room to haul much wood inside, but maybe you could hook up a trailer and haul some, or a line and skid some. You'd be safe from all them wiley coyotes, roadrunners, grizzlies, wolvies, black bears, cougars, sasquatches, fairies, gnomes, mad deer, crazy moose--there's a moose lodge down the highway, not to mention all them bad bad neighbors that folks here live next to.
> 
> Don't know how I ever survived!
> 
> For coyotes? Get a 22 and plink at them once in a while to keep them afraid of people. That is, if you live out in the sticks where there is topography and trees to stop the bullets from hitting buildings, people, cars, etc.
> 
> Actually, that pepper spray might be better than a gun. According to studies done in Alaska, folks with pepper spray survived grizzly/brown bear encounters in better shape than those with guns. Get the formula made for bears and be sure to be upwind. Don't use it to spice up food, either.



You have a valid point, there Slowp, but the methhead zombies ARE bad in my neck of the woods,much worse than brush puppies.I prefer a broken ax handle over a firearm for that critter, though.I might have to order some of that grizz strength pepper spray, for the next encounter I have with one.
Rabies is another valid concern.A .22 WILL NOT stop a rabid fox,coyote,dog or polecat.Either a 20 gauge with 3" buckshot or a 12 gauge with buckshot will make them stop before they get any slobber on you.


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## TreePointer

wagz said:


> people shooting predators like coyotes and wild dogs are the main reason so many people hit deer with their cars. senseless killing of predators has done nothing positive and unbalances the food chain in a negative way. it's 2012. please act like it.



I'll agree that the decrease in natural predator population in some regions contributes to overpopulation of many animals, including deer. Many deer get hit by cars because of the rut and not predators. Males full of hormones get stupid when they see a female, and females will run away--it happens with all mammals 

I think there needs to be a balance *that includes humans* in the equation. IMO, it's silly to think that *large* communities of humans should be forced to live with bears, mountain lions, wolves, and coyotes. We, as humans, are also allowed to protect ourselves and work for some reasonable expectation of safety from animal predators. I think the proper solution in these areas is to prevent overpopualation with regulated hunting and even some nuisance animal harvesting. This is why we have state hunting licenses and game commissions.


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## redheadwoodshed

260 POUND CATAMOUNT FOUND IN JACKSON COUNTY NORTH CAROLINA 
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:02:49 -0500
Look at what James Snipe hit with his car on US-64 west of Cashiers in Jackson County . The panther was still alive but unable to move, so our neighbor called animal control and they came and put him down. A land owner had seen this one a week before dragging off a 320 lb steer.
Our neighbor is an amateur taxidermist and he's going to stuff him.This one weighed 260 lbs. while most mature male panthers weigh 80 to 150 lbs. We had no idea they still roamed around here!View attachment 254789
View attachment 254790


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## cattoon

*My choice is a Ruger GP-100 stainless with a 4 in barrel*

1. Reliable
2. Accurate
3. reasonably priced if you shop around for a used one.
4. 357 magnum, because I like to bring enough gun.
But if I anticipate a real potential to have to shoot, 12 rem 870 with buckshot.


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## mitch95100

Well i was going to suggest a MA Duce but...

a ruger 10/22 is a very good choice also


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## indiansprings

I go to the public range quite a bit and to be honest I don't see but maybe 2 guys out of 10 that could hit a yote at 50 yards with handgun.
I would not recommend a handgun to the average guy to shoot yotes or wild dogs with. I'd rather have a good .22, I carry a 22-250 in the truck, that way they are dead from close range out to 400+ yards easy. Just get you a Koplin Gun boot to stick on your Gator and carry a rifle or 12 gauge shotgun with number 2 or4 buckshot. The 12 ga will kill coyotes out to 60 yards easy with the right choke, we call them during the winter and we've smoked several at that range using the shotguns. Around here about every farmer carries a 222/22-250 or .243, if a coyote even sees a human or a truck stop it is in high gear going in the opposite direction. We have more of an issue with them out coon hunting at night, they seem to want to harrass the hounds, they keep their distance, but will howl and carry on, letting the hounds know that they have intruded in their territory. We see more armadillo's cutting wood than anything else, two years ago we killed nine from the landing in one day.
It had been extremely cold and then warmed way up and I guess they came out to forage, .22LR took care of the dillers.
Forgive me, but I don't see many average shooters hitting moving yotes with pistols at ranges past 25 yards.


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## AIM

wagz said:


> people shooting predators like coyotes and wild dogs are the main reason so many people hit deer with their cars. senseless killing of predators has done nothing positive and unbalances the food chain in a negative way. it's 2012. please act like it.



I disagree with this in so many ways I really can't seem to put it into words right now.

As far as I'm concerned. A good yote is a dead yote. I shoot em on site with whatever I'm carrying.
Not because I'm afraid they'll attack me, but because they have helped decimate the pheasant population. They kill so much small game it's crazy. Between them and the redtail hawks around here pheasants don't have a prayer.


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## Ironworker

AIM said:


> I disagree with this in so many ways I really can't seem to put it into words right now.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned. A good yote is a dead yote. I shoot em on site with whatever I'm carrying.
> Not because I'm afraid they'll attack me, but because they have helped decimate the pheasant population. They kill so much small game it's crazy. Between them and the redtail hawks around here pheasants don't have a prayer.



Pheasants are not native but Coyotes and Hawks are. I do not know anyone or have ever heard of anyone being attacked by wild animals, thinking they will attack you is just a reason for senseless killing or plain old paranoia. Wild animals serve a purpose and should be left alone.


----------



## RandyMac

The National Park Rangers are advising hikers in Glacier National Park and other Rocky Mountain parks to be alert for bears and take extra precautions to avoid an encounter.
They advise park visitors to wear little bells on their clothes so they make noise when hiking. The bell noise allows bears to hear them coming from a distance and not be startled by a hiker accidentally sneaking up on them. This might cause a bear to charge.
Visitors should also carry a pepper spray can just in case a bear is encountered. Spraying the pepper into the air will irritate the bear's sensitive nose and it will run away.
It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area. People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat.
Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper.


----------



## JHctRednek

greyfox said:


> Pheasants are not native but Coyotes and Hawks are. I do not know anyone or have ever heard of anyone being attacked by wild animals, thinking they will attack you is just a reason for senseless killing or plain old paranoia. Wild animals serve a purpose and should be left alone.



I agree that pheasants are not native to North America but coyotes were not east of the Mississippi until after we eradicated the eastern timber wolf sometime in the late 1800's. For what its worth humans have been changing the North American ecosystem for hundreds of years. Coyotes are like any wild animal creatures of opportunity, if your trash or your dog is an easy meal they will go for it. 



indiansprings said:


> I go to the public range quite a bit and to be honest I don't see but maybe 2 guys out of 10 that could hit a yote at 50 yards with handgun.
> I would not recommend a handgun to the average guy to shoot yotes or wild dogs with. I'd rather have a good .22, I carry a 22-250 in the truck, that way they are dead from close range out to 400+ yards easy. Just get you a Koplin Gun boot to stick on your Gator and carry a rifle or 12 gauge shotgun with number 2 or4 buckshot. The 12 ga will kill coyotes out to 60 yards easy with the right choke, we call them during the winter and we've smoked several at that range using the shotguns. Around here about every farmer carries a 222/22-250 or .243, if a coyote even sees a human or a truck stop it is in high gear going in the opposite direction. We have more of an issue with them out coon hunting at night, they seem to want to harrass the hounds, they keep their distance, but will howl and carry on, letting the hounds know that they have intruded in their territory. We see more armadillo's cutting wood than anything else, two years ago we killed nine from the landing in one day.
> It had been extremely cold and then warmed way up and I guess they came out to forage, .22LR took care of the dillers.
> Forgive me, but I don't see many average shooters hitting moving yotes with pistols at ranges past 25 yards.



I agree that most people are not proficient with firearms. I see lots of people shooting at my gun club, we open to the public twice a year for field days and the proficiency of the average public is very poor. If it wasn't so bad Grant would have never started the Dept of Civilian Marksmanship/Civilian Marksmanship Program after he was appalled by the shooting performance of his soldiers in the civil war. 

I think we all agree that proficiency with what ever firearm you choose DustyW is important.:msp_wink:

Also a 12 gage with BB is very effective out to 50-60 yrds I use up old goose loads for up close winter coyote hunting with very good effect. 



slowp said:


> These woods are so dangerous. I'd pack a 50 calibur or however you spell it machine gun, heck, I wouldn't pack, why not drive a tank around? You won't have room to haul much wood inside, but maybe you could hook up a trailer and haul some, or a line and skid some. You'd be safe from all them wiley coyotes, roadrunners, grizzlies, wolvies, black bears, cougars, sasquatches, fairies, gnomes, mad deer, crazy moose--there's a moose lodge down the highway, not to mention all them bad bad neighbors that folks here live next to.
> 
> Don't know how I ever survived!
> 
> For coyotes? Get a 22 and plink at them once in a while to keep them afraid of people. That is, if you live out in the sticks where there is topography and trees to stop the bullets from hitting buildings, people, cars, etc.
> 
> Actually, that pepper spray might be better than a gun. According to studies done in Alaska, folks with pepper spray survived grizzly/brown bear encounters in better shape than those with guns. Get the formula made for bears and be sure to be upwind. Don't use it to spice up food, either.



Pepper spray is also a good option my wife carries it when she walks the dogs in the winter cause we've had problems with coyotes trying to attack our dogs. She is fairly proficient with handguns yet still refuses to get a CC permit :bang:
They are pretty brazen around here two years ago I shot one with my 380 right behind the barn cause it was chasing my GSP. That poor dog needed 9 stitches to fix him up and one hell of a vet bill :msp_scared:



Turkeyslayer said:


> If you can find a good used Hi Standard .22 they are very accurate handguns. As said above a .22 is the cheapest way to train with a handgun. A .357 is also a good choice because you can train with cheaper .38 ammo. I personally prefer .45acp in a 1911 style platform, in most cases 1911 style guns fit large hands. I highly recommend going to your local gun store and holding a range of handguns before purchasing, and buy what feels best in your hand. All handguns fit individuals different.



A side thought for practice is to look at handguns that have clones in 22lr or replaceable upper. Most 1911's have options for 22 conversions as do Sigs and Glocks. Chippa firearms make dedicated 22 versions of 1911s and berretta M9s for 300-400bucks. 

opcorn:


----------



## Blazin

wagz said:


> if a large predator actually attacked, 99% of the population wouldn't shoot accurately. especially a kill shot on a fast moving target. the movies are the movies.
> 
> people shooting predators like coyotes and wild dogs are the main reason so many people hit deer with their cars. senseless killing of predators has done nothing positive and unbalances the food chain in a negative way. it's 2012. please act like it.
> 
> i've been backpacking for many years and have yet to have a negative experience with any animal. worried about your child? maybe stay with them and teach them safety in the wildnerness. i'm more worried about trigger happy drunk hillbillies who think they are billy badass b/c they shot a skunk shooting me when i'm out than any wild animal.
> 
> it has nothing to do with peta or being a #####. it's really just about being educated and respecting the planet.
> 
> so again, i'd recommend the bear spray...



But....ahhh forget it :taped:


----------



## fubar2

I would think you would be better off with a shotgun leaned against a tree just out of your work area than finding out the extra weight, sweat point and tendency to get caught on branches that a handgun ain't the answer. If your like me when you needed it it would be buried under four chainsaws in my woods buggy thirty feet away. Out of curiosity what county did you think you seen a bigfoot in?


----------



## formationrx

wrist rocket...
tater gun...
6 in.357MAG
mossberg 590SS w/ drum
...sometimes i bring the MG42 or the M-134A Vulcan...


----------



## Somesawguy

Wow, you guys are pretty hard on the OP. It's a legitimate question. 

If you want a handgun, I would recommend at least a 9mm. A 22 doesn't really have enough knockdown power. Personally, I'd go with .45 or .357 mag. A 12Ga will give you more range, and something like a .223 or 30-30 would give you more. Even something like an SKS would be good.


----------



## benp

Somesawguy said:


> *Wow, you guys are pretty hard on the OP. It's a legitimate question. *
> 
> If you want a handgun, I would recommend at least a 9mm. A 22 doesn't really have enough knockdown power. Personally, I'd go with .45 or .357 mag. A 12Ga will give you more range, and something like a .223 or 30-30 would give you more. Even something like an SKS would be good.



ssssshhhhhhh....quit trying to interject common sense into this thread. You've been here long enough to understand it has no place concerning certain topics. :msp_biggrin:

To me it comes down to how do you want to have the weapon. On you, near you, or both. 

On you, pistol in a good outside the waistband holster or pocket carry. Just make sure to clean the wood chips out at nite.

Near you, a shotgun with a larger than stock capacity. A nice little $300 home defense job would fit this bill nice. 

Both, well.....

I wish I lived in Silver Town like some here where I had non of this to worry about.:msp_smile:


----------



## computeruser

Pinned and recessed S&W M28, elk antler grips, often in a flap holster.


----------



## benp

computeruser said:


> Pinned and recessed S&W M28, elk antler grips, often in a flap holster.








That is GORGEOUS!!!! 

Exactly what the OP needs.!!:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Dustyw

"it's 2012. please act like it. "

"i've been backpacking for many years and have yet to have a negative experience with any animal. worried about your child? maybe stay with them and teach them safety in the wildnerness. i'm more worried about trigger happy drunk hillbillies who think they are billy badass b/c they shot a skunk shooting me when i'm out than any wild animal"

I feel like I just been called a trigger happy drunk hillbilly. Maybe I could just beat the coyotes with this thread and it would just scare them away.


----------



## Jim Timber

My daily carry is a 4.25" 1911 in .45. I keep a hollow point in the hole, and the rest of the mag is ball: reason being, if the HP doesn't take them down, I'm gonna start drilling holes!

HP is not "extra lethal" like some people want to think. They're intended for people, mainly not going all the way through them and into a bystander. Two holes leak better than one.


----------



## rwoods

Jim Timber said:


> My daily carry is a 4.25" 1911 in .45. I keep a hollow point in the hole, and the rest of the mag is ball: reason being, if the HP doesn't take them down, I'm gonna start drilling holes!
> 
> HP is not "extra lethal" like some people want to think. They're intended for people, mainly not going all the way through them and into a bystander. Two holes leak better than one.



While we are sort of off topic, I seldom carry, but when I do the first 2 rounds are Glaser Blue safety slugs followed by 11 of whatever premium HPs I have at the time. 

Back to the original post, a lot depends upon whether he is just wanting to scare a critter off or put it down. I'll leave it at that. Ron


----------



## RandyMac

A number of good posts here, many I agree with. For a basic minimum the .357 revolver or .45 in either an auto or revolver, they both make a good back-up to a long arm. If you are going to have only a handgun, a heavy revolver is needed, an amp'ed up .45 or 44 Mag. You can't beat the untility of a repeating centerfire carbine, the 30-30 is the baseline here, although a magnum pistol cartridge will serve. The .223 is a varmint round, I consider the 7.62X39 a bit better to maybe 100 yards. A Savage 99 in .308 is worth considering.
I have gone armed since I was 14, it is a habit, I give it little thought. I was raised in the wilds of Northern California, it was the custom to have something at arm's reach.


----------



## rwoods

RandyMac, I don't get in grizzly or big cat country so the only critter protection I may need from time to time is directed at the two legged and the no leg kinds. I haven't had any close encounters with the rabid kind, yet. Nice revolver by the way. Ron


----------



## ShaneLogs

husqvarnaguy said:


> Put a machine gun on top of the gator. You would not need a chainsaw anymore. I have used the judge and it is pretty good but I would just go to walmart and get a little break action 20 gauge with some buck shot.



Hahaha! Would love to see some pictures of that set up.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Justsaws

Dustyw said:


> I was wanting some opinions on wich handgun to get to take to the woods when cutting firewood. We have had some problems lately with wild dogs and tonight my wive tells me that this afternoon there was a blonde colored dog up by the shop. I googled coyote and she said thats the dog I saw earlier. I want something for a peace of mind even though my 660 would protect me from anything around here. I'm thinking stainless cuz I want to throw it in the gator and not worry about scratches. I had my eye on the taurus judge liking the ability to shoot a. 410 gauge shell out of a pistol. I have been reading some mixed reviews about it though. Any opinions are welcomed.



Take an axe, treat yourself to a new Fiskars they supposedly work well and they are plasticy like a glock. Wild dogs and coyos love the sound of chainsaws and gators.

Piece of mind is knowing that wild dogs and coyos are almost ZERO threat. Next it will be all those rabid foxes and goodness me those black bears are sure vicious.

Forgot the raccoons, oh the humanity. 

Relax and enjoy the outdoors, want an excuse to buy a firearm, drug addicts, thieves and rapists.

Just to be clear, I would rather live with the coyos then the people who shoot them for sport. Now if you are willing to to go unarmed I will call it a sport beyond that it is just lame and pathetic.


----------



## Somesawguy

I wouldn't buy the Judge. From what I've been able to tell 410 isn't all that effective, and out of a short barrel, it'll be worse at anything more than close range.


----------



## groundup

You are asking the wrong question. It is not about carrying a gun it should be about killing the dogs. You need to hunt them not just wait for a stumbling opportunity. A caller and a 12 gauge is what you need to wear them out.


----------



## Jim Timber

Ours won't come in to calling. I'm waiting for snow, and will be snaring them this year.


----------



## wagz

just in time for this thread...

Killing of wolf pack criticized by key Washington state lawmaker - U.S. News


----------



## Jim Timber

The congress critter has a point - not the one he's trying to make though...

Why should the gov't have to come out to shoot them? Let the rancher manage his own damn problem.

Wolves have been de-listed, and MN is now having a hunting and trapping season for them. The goal is to kill 400 wolves out of a 3500 dog population: to bring it back down to the 1800 population they want (anyone else see "government math" here?).

Along with the hunting season, it's now legal for the individual to pull the trigger without prior authorization from the fuzz. If you do, you simply need to contact your DNR CO to report the kill and they'll give further instructions.


----------



## AIM

Here's my concealed carry gun. Just a little thing.




Actually this cannon is pretty much a deer / fun gun. The beer can is there to show size. And maybe to turn the screws on the drunken hillbilly a bit. Yep I am one!


----------



## arborealbuffoon

I've heard it said that a handgun is for backup while you claw your way back to your long gun. I agree with many posters here that 45ACP and/or 357 are both effective handgun rounds. I am always gonna prefer the ol' 870 if I ever feel threatened.

That being said, I plan on keeping close to the above mentioned weapons in lieu of the pepper spray. All day long. No joke.

And while I might be a hillbilly, I don't appreciate being called one within a derogatory context. Go hug a friggin' tree or something!

Have a nice day, and keep the pepper spray.


----------



## Arbonaut

I think any mixed reviews of the Taurus Judge are just Spam. Best thing goin' in home defense. I'd take a .45 revolver to blast nearby dogs, though instead. (Unless you can tote a 20 or 12 ga pump.)


----------



## Arbonaut

I never had a slight problem dropping Coyotes with a .22 long rifle. A Ruger Mark III with short barrel works great.


----------



## AIM

Here is a nice gun to shoot. A Chiappa 1911-22 . It's a full size 1911 chambered for 22 LR. Lots of fun. Cheap to shoot. Can kill what you want if you know where to aim.




I'm not gonna cut down the advice of buying a 357, 44 or whatever but in all practicality. A 22 is a VERY nice round to have around. Great for dispatching the occasional sick coon, car hit cat etc. Also you can shoot it all day for like $10. Try that with my 44.


----------



## Rudedog

AIM said:


> Here's my concealed carry gun. Just a little thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually this cannon is pretty much a deer / fun gun. The beer can is there to show size. And maybe to turn the screws on the drunken hillbilly a bit. Yep I am one!



Is that a Dan Wesson?


----------



## Jim Timber

Coons are a harder kill than yotes or deer - just the nature of the critter. Coons are tough little mo-fo's! I put two arrows (field tipped) into a trapped coon once, only to have it break both of them off and pull the shaft out like Rambo, then keep snarling at me. :msp_ohmy: After losing $10 in shafts, I went and got my .177 pellet rifle and put a couple in it's spine. I wasn't about to waste any more money on that little effer.


A lot of deer have died at the hands of a .22lr. It wasn't til the 60's that bigger guns were "required" because of a perception of cruelty or some form of ethical kill. .30-30 isn't exactly a hard hitting bullet (by todays standards), but it's more than lethal on deer. Archery should be outlawed the way some of you come off here. It's a slow way to bleed out, but the animal isn't suffering any more than with a bullet wound. They get tired, woozy, and fall over just like a double lung shot with a gun. If you're lucky, you hit their spinal cord or arteries and make it faster, but the animal isn't being tortured like some would like you to think.


----------



## Jim Timber

Btw, that was at my house in the burbs - I couldn't shoot them with a .22, as that would be a big no-no. Using my air rifle could get me in trouble as it is, but I've had a couple talks with the chief, so I'm hoping they'd look the other way or slap my wrists if someone ratted me out.


----------



## AIM

Yes that is a Dan Wesson 44 magnum. I got it as a gift for a boat that I rebuilt for a good friend of mine.




This is me and his boat in my back yard a few weeks prior to completion.

This is day one on the water. I am on the left. the owner on the right. My wife standing behind us and his wife sitting in the front.


----------



## Jim Timber

I like your pond.


----------



## benp

AIM said:


> Yes that is a Dan Wesson 44 magnum. I got it as a gift for a boat that I rebuilt for a good friend of mine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is me and his boat in my back yard a few weeks prior to completion.
> 
> This is day one on the water. I am on the left. the owner on the right. My wife standing behind us and his wife sitting in the front.



Holee Cow!!!

2 fantastic classics. :msp_thumbup:

I love the looks of Dan Wessons. Better than any other double action out there. Simple yet refined. 

You are able to change the barrels out on those correct? I would love to have one.


----------



## Whitespider

wagz said:


> *people shooting predators like coyotes and wild dogs are the main reason so many people hit deer with their cars. senseless killing of predators has done nothing positive and unbalances the food chain in a negative way. it's 2012. please act like it.
> it has nothing to do with peta or being a #####. it's really just about being educated and respecting the planet.*





greyfox said:


> *Wild animals serve a purpose and should be left alone.*



I just love statements like these, makes me burst out laughing every time hear or read them… you guys have absolutely no idea just how short-sighted and _*un*educated_ your thinking is.

For example... when the white man crossed the river into Iowa there wasn’t anything near to the 500 million deer we have living here now. A large portion of Iowa was covered in prairie grass with scattered and spotty wooded areas along river bottoms and such. Deer, and many of the prey species, are (or were) primarily “edge” dwellers… i.e. they transition back and forth between wooded bedding areas and open feeding areas. The land could only provide so much food and shelter, and the deer and other prey species remained in check. Because of the limited prey, the predator population also remained in check… that, by-the-way, is a *balanced* food chain… that will never be returned to the land if the human population wants to eat.

The settlers plowed up the prairie and cleared the few existing woodlots, reducing the habitat for prey species. Deer and other animals were heavily hunted for food, clothing and financial gains. Even though the “prey species” had been reduced, predator populations remained because they just turned their attentions on domesticated animals. Farmers and ranchers begin a war on predators, shooting black bear, wolf, cougar, coyote, fox, predator birds and whatnot on sight. By 1900 all large predators had been eradicated from the state, and by 1930 the deer population was near eradicated from unregulated hunting and habitat loss.

The “Dust Bowl Days” brought a different thinking to farming practices… and people started planting shelterbelts and allowed wooded areas to return. The deer and other prey species populations begin to return… but now the land had changed. Rather than miles and miles of grass, the land held near unlimited food supply… corn, beans, wheat, and more, along with billions of overgrown fence lines that created “edge” areas everywhere. The deer and other prey changed; they no longer required larger woodlands to survive, just a handful of trees in a fence line offered enough protection. Alongside the change in farming came the hunting and game protection laws… it became illegal to shoot some predators “on sight” (but you could still protect your livestock). The rebound in prey populations was slow at first; I remember the sighting of deer in the 1960’s and 1970’s was still a *BIG* deal, something you talked about. But in the 1990’s deer and other prey populations suddenly exploded… estimates put the deer population at 10-times what it was when the white man crossed the river.

Now the predators are returning… but they have also changed. Predators have learned it requires a lot less valuable energy to just enter the farm yard chicken house or take a calf for a meal than run down a deer or rabbit. It would take a population of predators 10-times greater to *balance* the food chain… which would leave no room for humans. Sorry, but that just ain’t gonna’ happen… and the bleeding-hearts need to get-over-it. If the predators run humans off the land then everything dies, including humans, and the land would return to the barren 1930’s. If we’re gonna’ live, farm and ranch on this land certain species of animal just have to be kept in check… sorry, but that’s the simple truth and *educated* fact of it.

Believing that a natural *balanced food chain* would result if we would stop killing animals is simple ignorance. The only way that could ever be possible is if we could return the land to what it was 300 years ago and moved off it… which would cause our demise, and so would stopping the practice of killing predators. Humans have created the animal populations we see today… the only possible *balance* is also the one we create, or institute. The harsh reality… there are few if any 100% “wild” areas in the lower 48, bleeding-hearts need to get-over-it, we are now, from pure necessity, part of the food chain and we are the only *balance* available to it.


----------



## Rudedog

benp said:


> Holee Cow!!!
> 
> 2 fantastic classics. :msp_thumbup:
> 
> I love the looks of Dan Wessons. Better than any other double action out there. Simple yet refined.
> 
> You are able to change the barrels out on those correct? I would love to have one.



Wow, I had to read this twice. I thought you meant boats and boobs and I was going to rep you. Then my wife reminded me it is Sunday and I better knock it off and read a little closer.


----------



## AIM

greyfox said:


> Wild animals serve a purpose and should be left alone.


If I leave them alone how can they serve their purpose?




Mourning doves soaked in italian dressing and cooked with butter.


----------



## redheadwoodshed

Jim Timber said:


> Coons are a harder kill than yotes or deer - just the nature of the critter. Coons are tough little mo-fo's! I put two arrows (field tipped) into a trapped coon once, only to have it break both of them off and pull the shaft out like Rambo, then keep snarling at me. :msp_ohmy: After losing $10 in shafts, I went and got my .177 pellet rifle and put a couple in it's spine. I wasn't about to waste any more money on that little effer.
> 
> 
> A lot of deer have died at the hands of a .22lr. It wasn't til the 60's that bigger guns were "required" because of a perception of cruelty or some form of ethical kill. .30-30 isn't exactly a hard hitting bullet (by todays standards), but it's more than lethal on deer. Archery should be outlawed the way some of you come off here. It's a slow way to bleed out, but the animal isn't suffering any more than with a bullet wound. They get tired, woozy, and fall over just like a double lung shot with a gun. If you're lucky, you hit their spinal cord or arteries and make it faster, but the animal isn't being tortured like some would like you to think.



Coons are dang hard to kill.I had some in my chicken pen one night, I took out my 20 gauge loaded with #6 3" Nitro-mag shells.The first one I shot died instantly, I knew there where more so I started looking up the trees and all.As I shined my light up a little gum, the coon stuck his head out from the other side and I shot him.He landed with a thump like he was dead, but when I walked over there he was gone.Now, all I could see of him was his head, and I might have been 10 yards away at the most.I hit him in the head.2 or 3 days later I found him almost 30 yards from the tree I shot him out of, dead.


----------



## srb08

whatscooking said:


> Get a MD57 which is a Tokarve chambered in a 7.62x25, they say it will penerate better than a .357 or a 44 mag and you can pick one up for a good price.


They are wrong.
I carry an M4 (16" AR15) loaded with 60 gr nosler partitions in the Gator and a S&W M57 mountain (4" .41 mag) on my hip.
I only needed the guns once, when I walked up on Three guys cooking meth on my property. The sheriff told me if I hadn't been armed, the situation would probably ended badly.
It's better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

To the op, carry the gun you shoot the best.


----------



## rarefish383

AIM said:


> Yes that is a Dan Wesson 44 magnum. I got it as a gift for a boat that I rebuilt for a good friend of mine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is me and his boat in my back yard a few weeks prior to completion.
> 
> This is day one on the water. I am on the left. the owner on the right. My wife standing behind us and his wife sitting in the front.



That is a pretty boat. Many years ago I sold my 1957 Lyman, and it is the only boat I regret selling, Joe.


----------



## AIM

Hate to take this thread further away from the original but what the hell. I'm kinda proud of this pile of wood. It is a 1968 Chris Craft Sportster. In shambles when I started the project. Replaced almost EVERY piece of wood on her.




This is in the owners showroom.


----------



## redheadwoodshed

srb08 said:


> They are wrong.
> I carry an M4 (16" AR15) loaded with 60 gr nosler partitions in the Gator and a S&W M57 mountain (4" .41 mag) on my hip.
> I only needed the guns once, when I walked up on Three guys cooking meth on my property. The sheriff told me if I hadn't been armed, the situation would probably ended badly.
> It's better to have and not need, than to need and not have.
> 
> To the op, carry the gun you shoot the best.



Best advise I've seen yet!


----------



## jdc123

I'd give the OP the same advice I would give anybody else that has never had a handgun; go on and get you one buddy, be safe with it and shoot it lots and lots. It does take practice to be proficient with a handgun, but you can do it. Heck, part of the fun is taking the thing to the woods and shooting it in between saw runs. You don't have to be a Range Ninja to learn to shoot! You are an American, by gosh, buy what you want and shoot it. There's a lot to be said for a good four inch .357, good to learn on, easy to wear, .38's for plinking and practice. And don't let some tree hugger question your manhood because you want to carry a gun and maybe pop a yote every now and then. If our country had been settled by these folks we would all still be huddled together on the east coast eatin' lettuce.


----------



## super3

This might have turned out different if she was packin'


Coyotes kill woman in Canadian park - World news - Americas | NBC News


----------



## Blazin

One time at band camp I was out cutting wood and this deer tried to attack me, turned out he really liked bacon...so did I oddly enough


----------



## Blazin

And these two got what they deserved for messing with the scheme of things :msp_scared:


----------



## Kevin in Ohio

I'm in Ohio as well and we don't normally have the bear aspect but one has been spotted here and confirmed by the police. Does tend to make you think.

While cutting in the woods (on our own property) several years ago, I was cutting through some large Beech. When I shut the saw down for refuel I turned to find 5 coyotes looking at me within 30 feet. Front feet out with heads down. Started the saw up and walked towards them. They turned away and ran thankfully. Dad had the same thing happen with a larger buck deer during rut one year. We tend to look around while cutting now as you never know. We have a shotgun in the truck but... it's in the truck! I wear earplugs but when the saws are off you normally can hear anything coming up on you. 

If you are sawing, Dog vs chainsaw outcome would not be pretty. Always a good plan to keep in the back of your mind. 

That said, I agree with others on a little larger caliber if you're set on a handgun. Personally I like my SW .40 as it's semi auto and can have 12 rounds when full. I think having the extra rounds without having to change clips/reload is what you're after here.


----------



## jdc123

Kevin in Ohio said:


> I'm in Ohio as well and we don't normally have the bear aspect but one has been spotted here and confirmed by the police. Does tend to make you think.
> 
> While cutting in the woods (on our own property) several years ago, I was cutting through some large Beech. When I shut the saw down for refuel I turned to find 5 coyotes looking at me within 30 feet. Front feet out with heads down. Started the saw up and walked towards them. They turned away and ran thankfully. Dad had the same thing happen with a larger buck deer during rut one year. We tend to look around while cutting now as you never know. We have a shotgun in the truck but... it's in the truck! I wear earplugs but when the saws are off you normally can hear anything coming up on you.
> 
> If you are sawing, Dog vs chainsaw outcome would not be pretty. Always a good plan to keep in the back of your mind.
> 
> That said, I agree with others on a little larger caliber if you're set on a handgun. Personally I like my SW .40 as it's semi auto and can have 12 rounds when full. I think having the extra rounds without having to change clips/reload is what you're after here.


Yup, starting to get some bears here, too. And anybody that thinks a pack of HUNGRY coyotes would NEVER attack a human is making a dangerous assumption. There's enough wild dogs around here to be worried about. I was out cutting one day in the woods and looked around and there was a pit bull watching me that came out of nowhere. Luckily he turned out to be friendly and I took him home with me.


----------



## AIM

I wouldn't want to take on a bear with a 22 but think of the positives. Cheap to shoot. Means you can practice and play a lot. A well handled 22 is worth more than a poorly handled 44.

You start spraying lead in a direction and things will usually go the other way. Regardless of the size of the bullets. (or regardless of the "things")

Wife and kids can learn to shoot a 22 without a bad recoil. (means wife can shoot "things" as well)

It really doesn't matter what ya get but in my opinion a 22 is the handiest pistol to have around. It is just a great all around firearm.


----------



## rwoods

AIM said:


> I wouldn't want to take on a bear with a 22 but think of the positives. Cheap to shoot. Means you can practice and play a lot. A well handled 22 is worth more than a poorly handled 44.
> 
> You start spraying lead in a direction and things will usually go the other way. Regardless of the size of the bullets. (or regardless of the "things")
> 
> Wife and kids can learn to shoot a 22 without a bad recoil. (means wife can shoot "things" as well)
> 
> *It really doesn't matter what ya get but in my opinion a 22 is the handiest pistol to have around. It is just a great all around firearm*.



Agreed. IME if you can group a large caliber auto in a paper plate, you can group a .22 auto in a silver dollar with practice. Ron


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## lmbrman

no sense even trying to buy ONE gun- kinda like having one chainsaw

Neighbor of ours has watched coyotes kill several of his dogs, now he shoots them on sight, and is learning to trap them. We were trying to figure out why they are getting so bold, then thought about the fact that the WI DNR had to shoot an entire pack of wolves in our area for 'public safety'.

Big cats, black bear, wolves, coyotes, seen them all in range of a handgun. Had coyotes and fox with what I think was mange come right up to the truck while I am eating lunch. Co-worker put his hookeroon to use and killed one really pesky sick skeleton- just skin and bones, hardly any hair.

Sightings are an opportunity.


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## slowp

Once again, it has been pointed out that Iowa is a mighty dangerous place to live.

For those of us who live in much tamer places, this site has pointers on living amongst the beasties. By the way, I believe you have to have a hunting license now in our fair state (another reason you shouldn't move here) to legally shoot at coyotes. Note that the coyote attack mentioned was in Belleview, which I refer to as Seattle, but Belleviewians will not.

Dangerous and Problem Wildlife | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife

We have a cougar in our neighborhood. I have not seen it, but others have. We have all the other beasties as well, except no moose and the wolves haven't made it to my neighborhood, yet. The moose are in the NE part of our fair state. I ran into a bear family last summer, and we all survived unscathed. I saw a skunk while staying in a state park and that was way scarier than the bear encounter. Having watched a Nature program about skunks, I calmly spoke to it out the open window and it ambled back into the brush. Needless to say, I did not sleep well that night. I also do not think it would be wise to shoot a skunk. If that episode comes to a tv station near you, it is worth watching.

I have also suspected that grizzlies wander about and sometimes come this way. A coworker swore he had seen one, and he is a reliable source, but such things are hard to confirm. I kind of like it that way. They don't bother us, and we don't bother them. Ooops, a cougar was watching a rigging crew yard logs one day. It was in a tree, and made the crew nervous, but they kept sending logs up the hill to the landing.

I know of nobody who has seen a sasquatch, and a large forest fire is currently burning up part of that habitat. 

So if you venture into our neck of the woods, we've got all the scary beasties, but I've not been bothered by the animal version. I doubt you will either. I'd only carry a firearm if it was hunting season and I was feeling perky enough to get and pack out an elk. It's too much extra weight otherwise, but I guess I could use it as an emergency hammer too.


----------



## Jim Timber

Black bears around my place run at the sight of people. I don't worry about them, so long as I'm watchful of where the cubs are and steer clear of momma.

I carry the .22 because it's handy and will do the job of making whatever I might want to leak, well, leak.  I don't hunt with it, and I do carry heavier hitters when I suspect wolves are around. As was mentioned, if something gets hit with a .22, they're not likely to stick around for more. 

If I was on the receiving end of a pissed off sow black bear, I'd wait til she got nice and close and try my best to pop her in the eyes and mouth (hoping to hit the spine from the inside). The skull plate is too thick, and the chest cavity probably too hard to penetrate for lungs/heart. The reality of that kind of encounter is as likely as winning the lottery though - they don't like humans and keep their distance.  In grizz country, I'd be carrying a 6" .357 mag, 10mm, or similar heavy hitter. .45 acp is a little light even with the heavier 230gr pills - it lacks velocity to make the KE needed for deep penetration. It works great on people, but it doesn't move fast enough for big game.


----------



## AIM

lmbrman said:


> no sense even trying to buy ONE gun- kinda like having one chainsaw



ONE gun is like blasphemy... 10 guns is kinda weird.... 20 guns is getting there... 40+ guns and your an OK guy... OK just kiddin.


----------



## AIM

slowp said:


> Once again, it has been pointed out that Iowa is a mighty dangerous place to live.
> 
> For those of us who live in much tamer places, this site has pointers on living amongst the beasties. By the way, I believe you have to have a hunting license now in our fair state (another reason you shouldn't move here) to legally shoot at coyotes. Note that the coyote attack mentioned was in Belleview, which I refer to as Seattle, but Belleviewians will not.
> 
> Dangerous and Problem Wildlife | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife
> 
> We have a cougar in our neighborhood. I have not seen it, but others have. We have all the other beasties as well, except no moose and the wolves haven't made it to my neighborhood, yet. The moose are in the NE part of our fair state. I ran into a bear family last summer, and we all survived unscathed. I saw a skunk while staying in a state park and that was way scarier than the bear encounter. Having watched a Nature program about skunks, I calmly spoke to it out the open window and it ambled back into the brush. Needless to say, I did not sleep well that night. I also do not think it would be wise to shoot a skunk. If that episode comes to a tv station near you, it is worth watching.
> 
> I have also suspected that grizzlies wander about and sometimes come this way. A coworker swore he had seen one, and he is a reliable source, but such things are hard to confirm. I kind of like it that way. They don't bother us, and we don't bother them. Ooops, a cougar was watching a rigging crew yard logs one day. It was in a tree, and made the crew nervous, but they kept sending logs up the hill to the landing.
> 
> I know of nobody who has seen a sasquatch, and a large forest fire is currently burning up part of that habitat.
> 
> So if you venture into our neck of the woods, we've got all the scary beasties, but I've not been bothered by the animal version. I doubt you will either. I'd only carry a firearm if it was hunting season and I was feeling perky enough to get and pack out an elk. It's too much extra weight otherwise, but I guess I could use it as an emergency hammer too.



Well to me it doesn't really matter wether or not I have been personally bothered by any critter. I will manage my surroundings as I see fit. The Ohio DNR must feel the same way about some species. No season dates or bag limits on yotes, hogs, woodchucks, etc. 
It might just be my part of the world though. Might be a little old lady or two that don't want ya killing her bunnies but she'll bake ya some cookies for killin yotes or woodchucks.

And by the way.. We use the license system here amongst the hillbilly's also...


----------



## lmbrman

open season on coyotes here if you are a landowner Patty

DNR warden told me it was to encourage population reduction, but that is just his word.

Know two people who shot wolves as they felt threatened by the wolf. Story must have rung true to LE as no arrests were made.


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## Sagetown

A woods handgun? Nothing less than a .45 automatic. 
I was attacked by 5 wild dogs. My sidearm was a S&W 9mm auto w/ double stack mags.
I don't think they began to retreat until one of them yipped from being hit. None of them DRT. Two ran a good ways before dropping. One got away clean.

Once in the woods my dog brought two Yotes to me in a dead run. Shocking to say the least. In my hands was a .22 pump. At point blank range I was pumping lead into both. I found one that turned around in confusion with 8 holes in him. 4 in each side.

Our region now is becoming infested with wild hogs. It would not be funny to look up while changing a saw chain and see a group of wild hogs in your face. Where's ma shotgun?


----------



## TreePointer

AIM said:


> Well to me it doesn't really matter wether or not I have been personally bothered by any critter. I will manage my surroundings as I see fit. The Ohio DNR must feel the same way about some species. *No season dates or bag limits on yotes, hogs, woodchucks, etc.
> It might just be my part of the world though.* Might be a little old lady or two that don't want ya killing her bunnies but she'll bake ya some cookies for killin yotes or woodchucks.
> 
> And by the way.. We use the license system here amongst the hillbilly's also...



It's essentially the same here in PA. Kill as many yotes, hogs, and woodchucks as you wish. You just aren't allowed to shoot 'chucks on Sunday for some reason. Might be a holdover from the old blue laws.


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## whatscooking

x


----------



## Whitespider

slowp said:


> *Once again, it has been pointed out that Iowa is a mighty dangerous place to live.*



Normally I’m able to see the humor in sarcasm, but in this particular instance all I see is a fool.
Yeah, Iowa is a “_mighty dangerous place to live_”, but it no more, or no less dangerous than any other place... including where you live. As you move across the country there are specific dangers that change, and others that remain constant… but only a fool refuses to recognize what they are and be prepared for them.

So fool, let me ask you… Have you ever had to watch while your 4-year-old son went through rabies treatments because he was bitten in your yard by some fur bearer he didn’t know the name of, but could only describe in 4-year-old terms? Do you even have any idea what’s involved in rabies treatments? Do you have any idea the helplessness you feel when you see the fear, anguish and tears in his eyes? Once, twenty years ago, was enough for me… if it has fur, and it’s bold enough to show it’s self in daylight within sight of the house or yard… It dies! I protect my family the best way I know how. Rabies is a very real danger around here… I’d much rather come face-to-face with one of your Grizzlies than meet a rabid squirrel without a firearm. Ya’ see, to kill you, all a rabid animal need to do is draw blood… nothing more. Advanced rabies is easy to spot in an animal, and I kill about one “for sure” rabid animal in the yard every other year or so… last year it was a skunk not five feet from the back porch at midday (another “sure fire” symptom). And some animals I kill on sight anytime, anywhere just because they’re nuisance animals, such as coyote… or, as in the case of skunk, stray dogs and such, highly likely to carry rabies.

So if you wann’a live your life with your head buried in the sand it’s no skin off my nose… but be forewarned, while your azz is up there swingin’ around in the breeze something’s likely to ream it.


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## OhioGregg

Been interesting reading this thread. Here in my part of Ohio, not much trouble with wild critters while out cutting and such. I did see a couple dogs, last week. A white Shepard & black Lab trying to route out a ground hog out of his hole, as I drove up to them on my 8n with trailer. They skee-daddled. The "wild" dogs, running in packs, have been known to occur around here. Just not happened to me yet. 
Reading all this though, got me to thinking of packing the .45 with me today. LOL Probably won't be an everyday thing though. We havn't had a problem with Coyotes around here. Been ages since I seen or heard one. Maybe this pic is the reason why. Friend of mine, and some fellas keep the poulation down, come winter time.








Gregg,


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## slowp

Whitespider said:


> Normally I’m able to see the humor in sarcasm, but in this particular instance all I see is a fool.
> Yeah, Iowa is a “_mighty dangerous place to live_”, but it no more, or no less dangerous than any other place... including where you live. As you move across the country there are specific dangers that change, and others that remain constant… but only a fool refuses to recognize what they are and be prepared for them.
> 
> So fool, let me ask you… Have you ever had to watch while your 4-year-old son went through rabies treatments because he was bitten in your yard by some fur bearer he didn’t know the name of, but could only describe in 4-year-old terms? Do you even have any idea what’s involved in rabies treatments? Do you have any idea the helplessness you feel when you see the fear, anguish and tears in his eyes? Once, twenty years ago, was enough for me… if it has fur, and it’s bold enough to show it’s self in daylight within sight of the house or yard… It dies! I protect my family the best way I know how. Rabies is a very real danger around here… I’d much rather come face-to-face with one of your Grizzlies than meet a rabid squirrel without a firearm. Ya’ see, to kill you, all a rabid animal need to do is draw blood… nothing more. Advanced rabies is easy to spot in an animal, and I kill about one “for sure” rabid animal in the yard every other year or so… last year it was a skunk not five feet from the back porch at midday (another “sure fire” symptom). And some animals I kill on sight anytime, anywhere just because they’re nuisance animals, such as coyote… or, as in the case of skunk, stray dogs and such, highly likely to carry rabies.
> 
> So if you wann’a live your life with your head buried in the sand it’s no skin off my nose… but be forewarned, while your azz is up there swingin’ around in the breeze something’s likely to ream it.




Once again, Iowa sounds like a very dangerous place. Your descriptions make it sound much scarier than here. Do you have rabid bunnies too? I don't have a 4 year old and we don't have a rabies problem here. Carry a gun everywhere. I didn't say not to. *I* prefer not to. I obviously live in a tamer place even though we do have real wilderness and peaks nearby. 

By the way, skunks are attracted, like other animals to garbage and dog and cat food left out. One doesn't do that here. Which may be why we don't have a problem even though the critters are in our neighborhood. My garbage is kept inside the shop. There is no kitty or dog food put outside. That's more important than What Kind Of Hogleg To Pack About. 

In fact, keeping food away from wild critters will most likely do a better job of keeping them away than shooting *AT* them. It also saves the neighborhood the problem of stray bullets going through the air because I imagine not all of you have topography to stop your missed shots. If you live in an isolated place, and have NO neighbors or NO people wandering about, feel free to plink away. I am an advocate of LEGAL hunting. It keeps the critters afraid. 

As a former worker in the woods, when some misguided person assumes nobody else is around what is essentially your office, it makes one quite nervous to hear shooting nearby. With our population out here growing, and people moving here who think they'll be accosted by Old Griz as soon as they step out of their SUV, it is getting quite annoying. I fear getting shot by such a person more than being attacked by Old Griz or his furry critter friends. 

You seem to talk about going about armed, but seldom talk of the safety of others FROM your random shooting, or firearms safety at all. There are other people going about their business in the woods. You need to realize that. It needs to be mentioned. Just because you don't see anybody wandering about, doesn't mean they aren't there. Think about the popularity of wearing camo year round. Can you see any of those folks in the woods? 

And I've been working and roaming around the woods for over 3 decades. Not my yard, but the forest.
Not a farm, but the forest. We don't have sand, nor do I expect a "reaming" as you so crudely put it. 

Chill. Discuss how you SAFELY shoot. Not just, _if it has fur, and it’s bold enough to show it’s self in daylight within sight of the house or yard… It dies! _ That, and other irresponsible statements are fodder for the anti-gun lobby. In fact, as a gun owner, I wouldn't want to be associated with that kind of reasoning. 

And yes, I do have guns, but I prefer not to boast about it, nor blast away at everything that moves, or comes on my property. I don't need a "man card."


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## Gologit

Well said.

I'm headed up the hill this morning. Let's hope the city folks who invade us every year in hopes of slaying a deer know where their backstop is.

And no, I won't be carrying a side arm. It keeps hanging up on my chaps.


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## hardpan

Anything is better than nothing. You asked about the Judge and apparently some have not recognized the options available. In my 3" Judge I can load 5 rounds of .45 Long Colt or any size pellet available for 410 shotgun. My choice for snakes is 7 1/2 shot. My choice for defense is 000 Buck. The 000 Buck will deliver (5) .36 Caliber round balls at a velocity of 1135 FPS each time I pull the trigger, nothing to sneeze at. The accuracy of the .45 Long colt is equal to my 3" revolvers in my hand which is a "pie pan" group at 25 yards. Remember, a strategically placed .22 can kill almost anything.


----------



## Whitespider

slowp said:


> *By the way, skunks are attracted, like other animals to garbage and dog and cat food left out.
> In fact, keeping food away from wild critters will most likely do a better job of keeping them away...
> You seem to talk about going about armed, but seldom talk of the safety of others FROM your random shooting...*



Now that is a laugh...
No I don't leave food and garbage laying about... but you've forgotten, I live in farming country. Farming means livestock and all the different types of "food" associated with raising them. Farming means acres and acres of "food" growing right next to me. I'm constantly surrounded by "food" well fit for attracting critters of every sort.
Oh, and by-the-way, my shooting is never "_random_", it's always intended to hit something. You have no business even suggesting my shooting is unsafe if you've never witnessed it. And I won't defend or explain what is or isn't safe shooting here on this board... because a few sentences aren't near enough to even touch on gun safety. Any, and every gun owner has the responsibility to keep, handle and discharge firearms in a safe and responsible manner... I guess I just take that as a "given". But I won't stand for being accused of unsafe gun handling from you or anyone else that doesn't know me, or been with me during my firing of a gun. You're been pretty self-righteous, don't you think?


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## benp

hardpan said:


> Anything is better than nothing. You asked about the Judge and apparently some have not recognized the options available. In my 3" Judge I can load 5 rounds of .45 Long Colt or any size pellet available for 410 shotgun. My choice for snakes is 7 1/2 shot. My choice for defense is 000 Buck. The 000 Buck will deliver (5) .36 Caliber round balls at a velocity of 1135 FPS each time I pull the trigger, nothing to sneeze at. *The accuracy of the .45 Long colt is equal to my 3" revolvers in my hand which is a "pie pan" group at 25 yards*. Remember, a strategically placed .22 can kill almost anything.




Wow! No kidding.:msp_thumbup: i was always curious about the 45 Colt accuracy out of the judge due to the distance the bullet has to travel in the cylinder before hitting the rifling.

I wish someone would come out with a 5 shot 45 LC specific "somewhat short barrel" double action.


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## Kevin in Ohio

slowp said:


> By the way, skunks are attracted, like other animals to garbage and dog and cat food left out. One doesn't do that here. Which may be why we don't have a problem even though the critters are in our neighborhood. My garbage is kept inside the shop. There is no kitty or dog food put outside. That's more important than What Kind Of Hogleg To Pack About.
> 
> In fact, keeping food away from wild critters will most likely do a better job of keeping them away than shooting *AT* them. It also saves the neighborhood the problem of stray bullets going through the air because I imagine not all of you have topography to stop your missed shots. If you live in an isolated place, and have NO neighbors or NO people wandering about, feel free to plink away. I am an advocate of LEGAL hunting. It keeps the critters afraid. "



I have to disagree with you there. I have NO pets and NO garbage outside for them(skunks) to eat. They were coming in droves to eat grubs in the ground. So many it looked like a rototiller was used around the ground. At first it was a "oh well" thing. Then they started over populating and coming out during the day and to the house and such. Some got sick and started dying and others would "defend" themselves on our house. I didn't feel sraying my yard and the surrounding 100 acres with pesticides was a viable option. Some population control is a good thing.

Coons here are bad a swell. With the corn supply they love to home up in the barns. Pooping on the top of wood piles must be an olympic sport for them as they can get quite a lot in a hurry. It's not reality to seal the fields off or close the barns up tight enough to keep them out. With groundhogs and coons the just chew are wood siding off to get in. Last straw for me but others have more tolerance than me.

I'm neither a tree hugger or gun extremist. I AM an American who enjoys the freedoms our fellow Americans fought and died for so we could have the right to choose. Even if the current government doesn't like it.


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## tbow388

*I take*

I take my KelTec PF9.

Small and easy to carry.


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## Sagetown

hardpan said:


> Remember, a strategically placed .22 can kill almost anything.



I agree. However, an unexpected violent encounter with man or beast doesn't award one with such an opportunity. 
California Highschool Rifle Team State Champions 1959-60. I'm the skinny guy.


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## hardpan

benp said:


> Wow! No kidding.:msp_thumbup: i was always curious about the 45 Colt accuracy out of the judge due to the distance the bullet has to travel in the cylinder before hitting the rifling.
> 
> I wish someone would come out with a 5 shot 45 LC specific "somewhat short barrel" double action.




I was ready to accept less accuracy when I bought the Judge as I already saw the shallow rifling. I was pleasantly surprised and enjoy the versatility. It is not for everyone though. It is big and heavy and the double action is hard. Single action is decent. Shooting the 3" 410 from a 3" barrel is LOUD. The 45LC has been a good round for well over 100 years and can be loaded to 44 Mag level in NEW revolvers. Risky using hot loads in the old Peacemakers and such. How about this. Buy a 454 Casull for the big stuff (even Grizzly)and you can also shoot the 45LC in it for plinking.


----------



## hardpan

Sagetown said:


> I agree. However, an unexpected violent encounter with man or beast doesn't award one with such an opportunity.
> California Highschool Rifle Team State Champions 1959-60. I'm the skinny guy.




Tell them to hold still, haha. The .22 is definitely not my first choice for defense from man or beast BUT it is the first choice of assassins.


----------



## benp

hardpan said:


> I was ready to accept less accuracy when I bought the Judge as I already saw the shallow rifling. I was pleasantly surprised and enjoy the versatility. It is not for everyone though. It is big and heavy and the double action is hard. Single action is decent. Shooting the 3" 410 from a 3" barrel is LOUD. The 45LC has been a good round for well over 100 years and can be loaded to 44 Mag level in NEW revolvers. Risky using hot loads in the old Peacemakers and such. How about this. Buy a 454 Casull for the big stuff (even Grizzly)and you can also shoot the 45LC in it for plinking.



The Ruger Alaskan 454. I completely forgot about that!


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## rarefish383

The only time this would be an issue is when I'm on the farm in WV, cuttin firewood, hunting fossils, or just goofin off. So, sitting on top of a stump you may find my Colt 11.25MM Model 1927, or one of several Savage 99's. Most likely my 1923 99F take down in 303 Savage, the 1950 99R in 250-3000 Savage, or the 1968 99 Deluxe in 308 Winchester. You see, I just can't carry an ugly rifle. I did take my 1895 Winchester, circa 1910, into the woods but a chipmunk tried to climb down the bore and make a nest, Joe.

1968 99 Deluxe





1923 99F take down and 1950 99R





Model 1895 Winchester in 35 Winchester





That's the 1927 Colt on the bottom





Or I might just chase whatever it is away with this.





Heck, I can't decide what to take, think I'll just go fishin in stead. The King Mackeral are running at Harkers Island NC, see you in a week!!


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## Sagetown

rarefish383 take the saw and leave those nice guns at home.


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## dwraisor

REJ2 said:


> Talk about paranoia, blonde dog or coyote? News talks about a father shooting his own son thinking he was a burglar, might have been since he was masked. Dumb ####, both of them. Never seen a coyote try to accost a human. You got nothing to worry about WHILE cutting. Pets around your home, different story.



Seven coyotes just put my fathers neighbor son up a tree. He had to call someone to come run them off... and that was just across the street from a house. Coyotes attacked and killed a hiker in Canada a couple years back. They are losing their fear of humans.

Wild/Ferrel dogs are the worst. They are used to humans we have had several run ins w/ wild dogs at our place.

I never go in the woods w/out a gun, saw or no saw.


dw


----------



## slowp

Oh my gosh! South Park must be in the Midwesteast?

Woodland Critter Christmas (Season 8, Episode 14) - Full Episode Player - South Park Studios


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## Whitespider

Yeah, the coyotes have been becoming more and more bold around here over the last few years also.
Used to be they'd bolt at the sight of a human, now they occasionally stand and look at me when I step out onto the front porch... which gives me plenty of time to make a clean head-shot.
We see them more and more during midday hours, when it used to be just dawn and dusk.
They are, in fact, loosing their fear of humans (which is a huge mistake on their part around my place)... but I also believe part of it is because the population is growing, despite being legal to shoot 24/7/365. On some evenings I can sit by the fire pit and listen to dozens yelping and howling up and down the river. I haven't heard of any attacks on humans as of yet, but they have taken some domestic animals and are making a general nuisance of themselves.

There appears to be other changes in predator behavior here. Typically the gray wolf and coyote won't put up with cohabitation... yet gray wolf sightings are becoming more common, and in the same areas known to harbor coyote. A gray wolf was caught in a trap along the fence-line behind my house a couple years ago... I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. And my daughter swears there was a cougar standing in the yard behind the machine shed last year (she was 15 at the time). I looked long and hard around the property and found no sign... but the funny thing is a cougar was hit and killed on the road less than 50 miles from here just a week later. Cougar won't normally come that close to human dwellings, but I'm taking her at her word. Just a few short years ago there wasn't any of those predators around here... and certainly not in the yard. When I first started seeing badger and bobcat (about 12-15 years ago, and the DNR told me I had to be wrong) people looked at me like I was crazy when I spoke of it. I warned then that more predators would follow and people laughed... they ain't laughing anymore. Just this morning I noticed a couple dozen buzzards circling low over one of the city parks on my way to the office... even the buzzards are loosing their fear. We didn't have buzzards in this area of the state less than 10 years ago, now there near everywhere you look.

Much of Iowa is criss-crossed with gravel roads every mile, with at least one farm house on every mile. These predators aren't living in some remote, removed area, these predators are living shoulder-to-shoulder with humans... sharing the farm fields, watching humans every day, learning and loosing fear. It won't work, something has to give...


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## RandyMac

Dogs, feral or not, loose in a pack are far more often encountered then bears or cats. Mama bears are a known hazard, cats will go for the little ones, watch your kids. Cats can be bluffed, if you act like you are going to attack them, be noisy about it, they will split. Dogs on the other hand will act as a team. One dog can be trouble, 2 or more are sure to be. I got jumped by 3 mixed breeds, mostly Lab I'd guess, the last one died five feet away, took three .45ACP JHP rounds, I was standing there with the slide locked back. I missed twice out of 8 rounds, started firing at about 40 feet.


----------



## dwraisor

As both populations (people & predators) expand we will have more sightings. KY finally has Black bear again, and enough they put a late winter hunt on the books. It is after the hibernation should have started, but was a legal ploy to get a season established the limit is 10 bear or 5 sow over a 2 day hunt. That is in the far Eastern area or Appalachian region, but 200 miles West near Bardstown KY there have been confirmed sightings, but they say those are "roving" bears. Your daughters cougar sighting (and later car hit) was probably similar, a young male ran off by his mom and chased farther off by other males and he is looking for a new home, and will leave the area soon. 

I mean what adolescent male of any species is going to hang around in a place w/ no females? 

I read a study done by one of the SE colleges (Alabama maybe?) Anyway they radio tagged a large number of whitetail dear fawns, born in late May early June, and by late July 70%+ had been killed by coyotes. Now I know they have a place on the food chain, but as long as they are eating the same meat I try to put in my freezer, every coyote I see I will put down.

IU wish we could hunt 24/7 we cannot hunt them at night. KYFWD to afraid hunters would take a deer or elk if they saw one I guess... when is gov't going to learn laws only keep the legal in line. Those that break the laws don't car about them.

dw


----------



## Whitespider

Six hits out of eight rounds fired... at multiple moving targets... while under extreme stress...
Even at relatively short range that's some pretty darn good pistol shooting Randy... Kudos.
You can join my team any day.


----------



## Jim Timber

Once again - hollow point's are intended to stop INSIDE the target. Pointed or round nose ammo is intended to pass THROUGH the target. Stop carrying hollow points for anything but urban settings. Drill baby, Drill!

I shot a deer at 3' with a .45 +P hydra-shok in the head and the bullet never left it's skull. That's NOT a hunting round - that's a person stopping round. They're designed to not go all the way through. I want two holes leaking on an animal, and I'm not overly concerned where the bullet goes once it exits the target.


----------



## dwraisor

AIM said:


> I wouldn't want to take on a bear with a 22 but think of the positives. Cheap to shoot. Means you can practice and play a lot. A well handled 22 is worth more than a poorly handled 44.
> 
> You start spraying lead in a direction and things will usually go the other way. Regardless of the size of the bullets. (or regardless of the "things")
> 
> Wife and kids can learn to shoot a 22 without a bad recoil. (means wife can shoot "things" as well)
> 
> It really doesn't matter what ya get but in my opinion a 22 is the handiest pistol to have around. It is just a great all around firearm.




A .22 LR is a great round, and while it doesn't meet today's standard of televised drama violence etc... it is capable of producing a fatal wound out to 100 yards if you can hit anything w/ it that far.

9 times out of 10 you can accomplish the needed task w/ a blank. The loud report in any animals direction will send them running. I carry a .22 LR 1911 when I cut, or work in the woods. It is much lighter than my .45 ACP 1911, and I don't really car if it gets knocked around and marred up.

15 minutes... but an interesting video.

[video=youtube;xAkOzr6cDx0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAkOzr6cDx0&feature=related[/video]


----------



## TreePointer

Jim Timber said:


> Once again - hollow point's are intended to stop INSIDE the target. Pointed or round nose ammo is intended to pass THROUGH the target.



Yep. That's why it's illegal to hunt with FMJ buttets in PA.


----------



## dwraisor

Jim Timber said:


> Once again - hollow point's are intended to stop INSIDE the target. Pointed or round nose ammo is intended to pass THROUGH the target. Stop carrying hollow points for anything but urban settings.




It depends on the round if the hollow point will go all ther way through or not. You shoot a hollow point Barnes X-bullet from anything 243 or bigger and it is going all the way through any dear you shoot. Now in handguns, yes, I would agree. I also like the wound channel a hollow point creates.



TreePointer said:


> Yep. That's why it's illegal to hunt with FMJ buttets in PA.



It is illegal to hunt w/ FMJ anywhere in the US (I think). Africa uses solid bullets for elephant, but that's about it.


And to the OP's question the Judge is a nice enough gun. I hear reports of the frames twisting to the point the gun is inoperable from consistent .410 shells. My father and another man have them and they like them. Guess if you do not plan to put thousands of rounds through one you'll be fine.

I like the gun on paper, but it is awful large to carry.


dw


----------



## Jim Timber

Soft nose is different than hollow point. Soft nose is required for hunting here, as it also expands on impact and makes a larger wound channel, but really the cavity of destruction caused by the hydrostatic shock is what does the quick killing. You're sending a tsunami through the soft tissues and it rips and explodes the tissue walls in the process - this is why you "drop" an animal with a good gun hit: it's devastating on their central nervous system.

When you lack the destructive power of a high velocity projectile (I consider over 1200fps high velocity), you want drainage! I want a leak in their blood pump so they run out of go juice. This is best accomplished with multiple paths, and that's why I want an exit hole. Going all the way through also provides potential muscle damage on two sides of the critter - thus reducing their ability to counter your assault.

Any chest hit will also cause problems with the mechanics of breathing. A hole in the upper torso will mess with the diaphrams ability to work the lungs and they will eventually suffocate from lack of ability to breath - it has nothing to do with the lungs filling with blood from the hit, but a collapsed lung will obviously speed the process substantially.


----------



## Arbonaut

Who has tried the ballistic simulated bone? Not to horn in on the thread, I'm curious.


----------



## Sagetown

RandyMac said:


> I got jumped by 3 mixed breeds, mostly Lab I'd guess, the last one died five feet away, took* three .45ACP JHP rounds*, I was standing there with the slide locked back. I missed twice out of 8 rounds, started firing at about 40 feet.



Well; I'd have thought those .45 rounds would be much more effective than that. Guess my 9mm didn't do so bad a job after all. 
For sure a pack of dogs don't scare easily when on the stalk. Once took my .270 remington to check dogs barking from my neighbors pasture. Several dogs had his mama cows and baby calves surrounded. Some dogs were just sitting, while others would dash in trying to break the herds protection of their babies. I watched from the brush fenceline looking for the main instigater. A mid-sized yellow male dog farthest from me. I took him, and the others looked bewildered, till the next dropped. They didn't know which way to go and weren't in too big a hurry till I dropped a black doberman with my last round. My neighbors Dad lived in town, so I gave him a call.


----------



## Whitespider

dwraisor said:


> *It is illegal to hunt w/ FMJ anywhere in the US (I think).*



Ummm.... that's not quite 100% correct. Here in Iowa we can't use rifles to hunt deer, but we can use handguns. Deer hunting regulations specifically say that non-expanding bullets (i.e. FMJ, or bullets with no exposed lead tip) are not legal for deer hunting. But many other animals can be hunted with rifles and handguns, and there are no restrictions on the type of bullet used. Pretty much everything except deer, turkey and water foul can legally be hunted with FMJ bullets (turkey and water foul are shotgun only). I know several hunters of fur-bearing critters that prefer FMJ because of the minimal damage done to the pelt. And FMJ (ball) ammunition makes a fine small game load in center-fire handguns because of the minimal meat damage.


----------



## dingeryote

Ronald Reagan said:


> Who has tried the ballistic simulated bone? Not to horn in on the thread, I'm curious.




Spent 6 years working through several tons of Vyse Ordnance Gel, while helping with establishing a database of Defensive ammunition performance peramiters. Just a Hobby and fun learning project, while working with good friends that share a common need for dubunkifying commonly held misconceptions, agenda driven "pseudo-ekspurts", and advertisers hype. 

So...yes.
Got a 25lb pail in the garage right now. Just havn't been motivated to tinker for the last several years. Nothing new and improved enough to justify the expense, mess and effort.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## dwraisor

Whitespider said:


> Ummm.... that's not quite 100% correct. Here in Iowa we can't use rifles to hunt deer, but we can use handguns. Deer hunting regulations specifically say that non-expanding bullets (i.e. FMJ, or bullets with no exposed lead tip) are not legal for deer hunting. But many other animals can be hunted with rifles and handguns, and there are no restrictions on the type of bullet used. Pretty much everything except deer, turkey and water foul can legally be hunted with FMJ bullets (turkey and water foul are shotgun only). I know several hunters of fur-bearing critters that prefer FMJ because of the minimal damage done to the pelt. And FMJ (ball) ammunition makes a fine small game load in center-fire handguns because of the minimal meat damage.



Cool, thanks. I was speculating mostly. I agree the FMJ reduce pelt damage. I like the Barnes X-Bullets or any of the new expanding solids. Now that Barnes loads them themselves I shoot them in my .243 and next time I am at the shooting stuff store going to p/u some for my .223, maybe my '06 as well. Though it doesn't see much field time any more.

dw


----------



## fubar2

slowp said:


> Once again, Iowa sounds like a very dangerous place. Your descriptions make it sound much scarier than here. Do you have rabid bunnies too? I don't have a 4 year old and we don't have a rabies problem here. Carry a gun everywhere. I didn't say not to. *I* prefer not to. I obviously live in a tamer place even though we do have real wilderness and peaks nearby.
> 
> By the way, skunks are attracted, like other animals to garbage and dog and cat food left out. One doesn't do that here. Which may be why we don't have a problem even though the critters are in our neighborhood. My garbage is kept inside the shop. There is no kitty or dog food put outside. That's more important than What Kind Of Hogleg To Pack About.
> 
> In fact, keeping food away from wild critters will most likely do a better job of keeping them away than shooting *AT* them. It also saves the neighborhood the problem of stray bullets going through the air because I imagine not all of you have topography to stop your missed shots. If you live in an isolated place, and have NO neighbors or NO people wandering about, feel free to plink away. I am an advocate of LEGAL hunting. It keeps the critters afraid.
> 
> As a former worker in the woods, when some misguided person assumes nobody else is around what is essentially your office, it makes one quite nervous to hear shooting nearby. With our population out here growing, and people moving here who think they'll be accosted by Old Griz as soon as they step out of their SUV, it is getting quite annoying. I fear getting shot by such a person more than being attacked by Old Griz or his furry critter friends.
> 
> You seem to talk about going about armed, but seldom talk of the safety of others FROM your random shooting, or firearms safety at all. There are other people going about their business in the woods. You need to realize that. It needs to be mentioned. Just because you don't see anybody wandering about, doesn't mean they aren't there. Think about the popularity of wearing camo year round. Can you see any of those folks in the woods?
> 
> And I've been working and roaming around the woods for over 3 decades. Not my yard, but the forest.
> Not a farm, but the forest. We don't have sand, nor do I expect a "reaming" as you so crudely put it.
> 
> Chill. Discuss how you SAFELY shoot. Not just, _if it has fur, and it’s bold enough to show it’s self in daylight within sight of the house or yard… It dies! _ That, and other irresponsible statements are fodder for the anti-gun lobby. In fact, as a gun owner, I wouldn't want to be associated with that kind of reasoning.
> 
> And yes, I do have guns, but I prefer not to boast about it, nor blast away at everything that moves, or comes on my property. I don't need a "man card."



Most severe case of penis envy I've seen for awhile.


----------



## slowp

fubar2 said:


> Most severe case of penis envy I've seen for awhile.



And that's a very unoriginal comment. But, boys will be boys. Another unoriginal comment, but it seems appropriate. 

By the way, your comment also leads me to the tired old diagnosis that maybe you have to compensate????



Now go get your cannon out, strap it on, and swagger out to your car. There might could be a rabid chipmonk in your way. Scary stuff, them chippymonks. And a little Labrador puppy might be pooping on your flowers, so better blow it away too. 

Like I said, a few of you feed the gun control folks exactly what they want, and make the rest of us look bad.


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## ancy

Man this guy is just looking for a carry gun for the woods, it is a free country and guess what he can carry in the woods if he wants. I have two that I use most often, a Browning Buckmark Camper .22LR and the Taurus Judge .45LC/.410 Shotshell, both bought by my wife for the family to use and protect ourselves. I use the Judge for home protection mostly because of the .410 shotshell side of it. Easily hit a target and unlikely going through any walls. If you don't like firearms and protecting yourself just leave this OP alone and let him get to what he wants to know. :bang:


----------



## rob206

ancy said:


> Man this guy is just looking for a carry gun for the woods, *it is a free country and guess what he can carry in the woods if he wants*. I have two that I use most often, a Browning Buckmark Camper .22LR and the Taurus Judge .45LC/.410 Shotshell, both bought by my wife for the family to use and protect ourselves. I use the Judge for home protection mostly because of the .410 shotshell side of it. Easily hit a target and unlikely going through any walls. If you don't like firearms and protecting yourself just leave this OP alone and let him get to what he wants to know. :bang:



Yes, but some people would rather that _they_ determine what's best for you. One time when I was stationed in Sigonella Sicily, I went for a run in the little villagio I lived in. On my way back a small pack of wild dogs(or at the very least, running freely that day) started after me and fortunately there was a 4ft tall cement wall with a fence on top of that, right next to me. I did make it back okay after they were gone, but I was quite apprehensive because I still had a ways to go, and no idea where they were. 

If we all had Slowp's amazing ability to talk to animals the same way she talked to the skunk, I guess we wouldn't need guns for protection from critters.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## dingeryote

slowp said:


> And that's a very unoriginal comment. But, boys will be boys. Another unoriginal comment, but it seems appropriate.
> 
> By the way, your comment also leads me to the tired old diagnosis that maybe you have to compensate????
> 
> 
> 
> Now go get your cannon out, strap it on, and swagger out to your car. There might could be a rabid chipmonk in your way. Scary stuff, them chippymonks. And a little Labrador puppy might be pooping on your flowers, so better blow it away too.
> 
> Like I said, a few of you feed the gun control folks exactly what they want, and make the rest of us look bad.



OP was looking for sound and logical advice concerning a real and tangible challenge.

You just stopped in to offer nothing, make an attempt to demean and belittle anyone who actually DOES have helpfull advice to offer, and then play the pointless insult game, when you got called on your usual trolling drivel.

Surely you are baiting for such a response, as you have nothing logical, or helpfull, to add to the conversation.

The thread wasn't about you, or what any other nacissistic and patronizing liberal is opposed to for whatever reason, and damn sure had nothing to do, with not offending your precious sensibilitys, untill you decided it did.

There is a Reply button, but there isn't a "No Reply" button. Pity. Must be a software flaw due to oversight, causing your confusion.

Possibly it is difficult to figure out, but please endeavor to cease the obvious trolling, by not selecting the "Reply" button. Adults are having a conversation, politely go away unless you have something substantive and helpfull to add, and quit baiting for your own twisted need of validation. 

Nobody is making you, look as bad as you. Don't kid yourself, that bath water you have been guzzling is going to drown you.


----------



## Genius.

dingeryote said:


> OP was looking for sound and logical advice concerning a real and tangible challenge.
> 
> You just stopped in to offer nothing, make an attempt to demean and belittle anyone who actually DOES have helpfull advice to offer, and then play the pointless insult game, when you got called on your usual trolling drivel.
> 
> Surely you are baiting for such a response, as you have nothing logical, or helpfull, to add to the conversation.
> 
> The thread wasn't about you, or what any other nacissistic and patronizing liberal is opposed to for whatever reason, and damn sure had nothing to do, with not offending your precious sensibilitys, untill you decided it did.
> 
> There is a Reply button, but there isn't a "No Reply" button. Pity. Must be a software flaw due to oversight, causing your confusion.
> 
> Possibly it is difficult to figure out, but please endeavor to cease the obvious trolling, by not selecting the "Reply" button. Adults are having a conversation, politely go away unless you have something substantive and helpfull to add, and quit baiting for your own twisted need of validation.
> 
> Nobody is making you, look as bad as you. Don't kid yourself, that bath water you have been guzzling is going to drown you.




:msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin:


----------



## Genius.

Oh boy!!!

I need to read this from start to finish!!

But I have a feeling I know how it started, then I have a feeling how it got off base by a gun hater...


----------



## Dustyw

Well I think I am going to pursue the taurus judge when I get a little bit more time and money. I will report back after the purchase. And by the way, I will shoot at any coyote or anything else I feel threatened by as long as I have a safe shot. Not saying I will hit it, but would make me feel better. Thank you everybody that contributed useful info. Anybody else that owns or shot a judge tell me more!


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## ancy

We also bought my Father one for his retirement and future travels in their RV. My Mom has shot many rounds through it(not a gun person at all) and recoil is there but not bad, and she could hit a pie plate at 20 feet. I want to say my wife picked mine SS 4" up for $425 with a nice case and holster and I think my Dad's blued 2.5" was $360. I bet you can't guess what my Dads other handgun is?


----------



## wampum

I have had a permit to carry since the 1970's and have renewed it every 5 years.I use to go to what I thought was a pretty bad area in Pittsburgh to pick up stock for my saw and stove shop.I thought I needed it back then,but actually never took it with me. 

As far as carrying in the woods,I would recommend something light.A few years back I was out Mushroom picking and had 3 dogs circle me.I hit one with a rock and another with a stick and made a lot of noise.They eventually went away.But I never go very far in the woods with out a pistol now.The only pistol I have is a Glock Model 31 in the 357-SIG,this is a pretty heavy pistol and holds 9 in the clip and one in the chamber if you want.In the woods I never carry one in the chamber.I modified it to I believe a 6 pound pull,so if I shoot it has to be because I want to,I do not like light triggers.

I have been looking for a fairly cheap 22,because I believe that would be good for anything in the woods around here.

But if I lived in an area with a lot of bears or hogs I would stay with what I have.But in my opinion the lighter the better,unless you feel the possible danger requires more.


----------



## Marc

I'm still at the top of the food chain around here.


Suck it, nature.


----------



## Marc

Switching gears, in a group huggish kind of moment I'd also like to point out that despite disagreeing on firearms, at least being chainsaw owners and users we're all extremely well equipped to deal with the zombie hoard.


Just remember to keep your rakers down.


----------



## rwoods

Marc said:


> I'm still at the top of the food chain around here. ...



Sometimes we fall: Authorities: Oregon farmer eaten by his hogs | US National Headlines | Comcast I pity the man's family and the person who discovered the situation. Ron


----------



## Larry Ashcraft

My normal carry is either a Chief's Special or a Keltec P3AT, but those are a little light for the woods. I've tried a 1911 in a retention holster, but it's heavy and gets in the way, so I end up taking it off and keeping it close by.

Lately I've been just throwing a Mini 14 or AR15 in the truck or on the four wheeler.

This is on my own property but it's about a half mile from the house and on the river bottom. I've had coyotes chasing my dogs and vice versa, also any kind of two-legged vermin could wander up or down river. Also, trespassers hunting ducks or turkeys are armed and usually upset when I catch them. A sidearm or rifle has a calming effect on the whole situation. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## slowp

dingeryote said:


> OP was looking for sound and logical advice concerning a real and tangible challenge.
> 
> You just stopped in to offer nothing, make an attempt to demean and belittle anyone who actually DOES have helpfull advice to offer, and then play the pointless insult game, when you got called on your usual trolling drivel.
> 
> Surely you are baiting for such a response, as you have nothing logical, or helpfull, to add to the conversation.
> 
> The thread wasn't about you, or what any other nacissistic and patronizing liberal is opposed to for whatever reason, and damn sure had nothing to do, with not offending your precious sensibilitys, untill you decided it did.
> 
> There is a Reply button, but there isn't a "No Reply" button. Pity. Must be a software flaw due to oversight, causing your confusion.
> 
> Possibly it is difficult to figure out, but please endeavor to cease the obvious trolling, by not selecting the "Reply" button. Adults are having a conversation, politely go away unless you have something substantive and helpfull to add, and quit baiting for your own twisted need of validation.
> 
> Nobody is making you, look as bad as you. Don't kid yourself, that bath water you have been guzzling is going to drown you.



I disagree. With all the he man comments about blowing away any critter that might look to be having a bad day, or that they just don't like, a comment about the failure to discuss safety and lines of fire should not be found to be offensive, nor should a comment about pepper spray maybe, just might be a safer and more reliable alternative, not to mention lighter to carry, or how some replies are just what the REAL gun haters want to hear to use against. 

Now, if you do not want any disagreement, or other ideas, I suggest you not post on an open forum. Isn't it an American trait to not agree on every item? Can't we have freedom of thought anymore without phallic references? 

You little buttercups, need to grow a tougher skin. You overreact to any criticism. 

My way of thinking is different, and I will continue to offer advice, whether you like it or not. I love the way I am considered to be a gun hater. Hah. I am a hater of folks boasting about unresponsible killing or shooting of animals, inanimate objects and some who even seem to slobber at the chance to kill a human being. 

If that's wrong, then I am damn proud to be wrong. 

Now go clean yer "guns". You might have to dispatch a poor widdle kitty.

A word of warning. This happened to a yarder engineer. This guy was like a well respected captain of a ship. He merely had to come out of the cab, point to something that needed doing, and a crew member would run and take care of it quickly with no questions. 

One day, I noticed he seemed very subdued and depressed. He said he was not looking forward to going home as his marriage may have ended because of what he did. 

He had to policy, because he had to get up at 2 or 3AM in order to be up at the landing at daylight, of shooting "anything that wakes me up." He had shot at something during the night and discovered the next morning that he had killed his wife's favorite cat. 

Indiscriminate shooting is irresponsible. Period.


----------



## lmbrman

patty, I totally agree that indiscriminate shooting is irresponsible, and suspect that many on here agree. I never meant to sound otherwise. 

Most people who carry guns are very responsible and rarely use them. there are exceptions of course, as with everything.

-Dave


----------



## Genius.

If the weight of a gun is enough to bother someone they need to lay off of the jelly doughnuts and loose a pound or two then.


----------



## Genius.

RandyMac said:


> Dogs, feral or not, loose in a pack are far more often encountered then bears or cats. Mama bears are a known hazard, cats will go for the little ones, watch your kids. Cats can be bluffed, if you act like you are going to attack them, be noisy about it, they will split. Dogs on the other hand will act as a team. One dog can be trouble, 2 or more are sure to be. I got jumped by 3 mixed breeds, mostly Lab I'd guess, the last one died five feet away, took three .45ACP JHP rounds, I was standing there with the slide locked back. I missed twice out of 8 rounds, started firing at about 40 feet.



You loosing your eyesight at your old age:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Genius.

I wouldn't even consider not going into my woods without a gun. When I'm out walking, especially when I drive my property at night, I always encounter skunk, possum, and coon. If I see one, I kill it, plain and simple. 

They do a lot of damage to our crops, my garden, my buddy's bee hives that he keeps on my property. In fact last night I got 2 coon and 1 skunk.

This is the best time of year to go after them. My kids love it, every night before they go to bed me, my wife and our two kids hop on the gator and go for a ride around our property.


----------



## ancy

Until you have a crazy coon on your tree stand, weasel taking the heads off your chickens, or a wild tom cat tearing into your barn kittens you won't understand what a .22LR is made for. I wished I didn't have to do what I've had to but when it affects my family the strongest live on, that's life, sorry!!


----------



## Blazin

In before lock....geez  The guy want's gun recommendations not politics and peta........


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy

Bacon!

We can all agree on bacon, can't we?


----------



## Sagetown

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Bacon!
> 
> We can all agree on bacon, can't we?



I ain't eatin' no Soybean Bacon. Yuk!


----------



## Jim Timber

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Bacon!
> 
> We can all agree on bacon, can't we?



As long as you use a 7mm Mag to kill the pig, cause anything less is unethical. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Whitespider

slowp said:


> *Scary stuff, them chippymonks.*



Yeah, you got that right… nasty little pests. About this time of year those little vermin start building their winter home… in the buildings, in the vehicles, under power equipment shrouds. Next they start chewing wires, tearing up insulation and using my stuff as a toilet.

I found one of those destructive little pests making a home in my shop toolbox a couple weeks ago… used my expensive torque wrench as a urinal, and the ammonia destroyed it. Now I need to fork-out $250.oo for the replacement. His new home was lined with some wire covering… couldn’t figure out where it came from until I tried cuttin’ the grass. Guess what? I ain’t got any insulation on the wires to the electric PTO clutch, which shorted-out when I tried engaging the blades… another $235.00!

Couple days later my wife opened the glove box in her van. She was so made at that mess… if she could’ve killed every one of those vermin on the planet with a word she would’ve done it. Ya’ know what? They entered her van through the heater system, and on the way they stopped to chew up the blend-door actuator… $153.00. I’m hoping the door is still OK, because if it ain’t I’ll be spending around 6-8 hours removing the complete dash from her van.

That same weekend my daughter woke me up in the middle of the night because something was making a “scratchy” noise. One of those little red squirrels had chewed through the soffit on the north side of the house and taken up residence.

And the final kicker was when my wife walked into the pump-house to retrieve some gardening tools and one of those POS chipmunk vermin jumped on her in its panic to escape… but not before it had decided to chew open every one of her bags of mulch.

It was on after that. Between the wife and I we’ve shot and killed 27 chipmunks, 3 red squirrels, two gophers and one groundhog (digging under the machine shed) in the last two weeks… and there ain’t been no tears shed by anyone in the house over it either. I’m figurin’ we’ll likely double the “kill” number over the next month… I’m in Missouri workin’ this week, but the wife called just a bit ago to tell me she’d “nailed” two more or those “f-ing things”. The goal is to eliminate any, and all, rodent life within 500 yards of the house by first snow. And it's perfectly legal in Iowa to shoot nuisance wildlife on your own (rural) property, at any time... no license needed.

Besides… I’m just taking *your advice* and eliminating any “food” that may attract predators.
By-the-way… thank you for the advice.


----------



## Arbonaut

slowp said:


> I disagree.
> 
> If that's wrong, then I am damn proud to be wrong.
> 
> *Indiscriminate shooting is irresponsible.* Period.




You've been not properly introduced to *Tannerite*.


----------



## Sagetown

Jim Timber said:


> As long as you use a 7mm Mag to kill the pig, cause anything less is unethical. :hmm3grin2orange:



Jim I hope you're right. But when killing a pig, use a .22 cal with a long rifle bullet. Shoot it between the eyes, and save the squeal.
In 1970 I watched two Highway Patrolmen try to dispatch a hog with their .357 mags. Bullets bounced right off it's face.


----------



## wampum

TheGenius said:


> If the weight of a gun is enough to bother someone they need to lay off of the jelly doughnuts and loose a pound or two then.



Nah the weight does not bother me,its just smart to go as light as possible.I carry a very small knife when I am hunting deer.I have found it works better and is easier to control then a Bowie like I see some carry.When I am cutting up 14 to 16 inch logs I just take the 5100.The 7900 is good but I use it only on big rounds. I have even dropped down to a smaller shotgun,it makes you a better shot and you do no have as much shot in the game.

For deer I still use my 270,but I see a lot of deer taken with 30/30's.I just like my 270.But when I go out west for Elk,I use my 300 mag.Its all a matter of choice.

With age you will find that bigger or heavier is not always the best way to go.But to each his own.By the way I have not had a jelly donut in years.


----------



## Whitespider

I used a .22 Long Rifle solid to shoot a pig between the eyes once.
The first bullet just pissed-it-off, the second one put it down... or so I thought.
When I rolled the pig over to cut the throat it "woke up" and near took my arm off.

Once the pig calmed down enough to hold still I put a 255-grain .45 Colt slug in the the ear... that finally ended the fiasco.
An autopsy found both .22 slugs had hit between the eyes, but failed to penetrate and slid under the skin to the top of the head where they stopped. I've had .22's bounce off the skulls of squirrels, and I once "rolled" a running groundhog 4 times with a .22... yet he still made it to the den. Anymore, I don't use the .22 rimfire for anything but bouncing cans and head-shots-only on rabbits and game birds... it ain't even a reliable "stopper" on gophers.


----------



## Jim Timber

Sagetown said:


> Jim I hope you're right. But when killing a pig, use a .22 cal with a long rifle bullet. Shoot it between the eyes, and save the squeal.
> In 1970 I watched two Highway Patrolmen try to dispatch a hog with their .357 mags. Bullets bounced right off it's face.



I was being facetious. 

I've never killed a pig, but I've helped get rid of the evidence a lot.


----------



## Sagetown

Whitespider said:


> I used a .22 Long Rifle solid to shoot a pig between the eyes once.
> The first bullet just pissed-it-off, the second one put it down... or so I thought.
> When I rolled the pig over to cut the throat it "woke up" and near took my arm off.
> 
> Once the pig calmed down enough to hold still I put a 255-grain .45 Colt slug in the the ear... that finally ended the fiasco.
> An autopsy found both .22 slugs had hit between the eyes, but failed to penetrate and slid under the skin to the top of the head where they stopped. I've had .22's bounce off the skulls of squirrels, and I once "rolled" a running groundhog 4 times with a .22... yet he still made it to the den. Anymore, I don't use the .22 rimfire for anything but bouncing cans and head-shots-only on rabbits and game birds... it ain't even a reliable "stopper" on gophers.



Whitespider I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, but it's a technique you have to developed. 1st you draw an imaginary 'X' from the inside of the ears to the eyes, and place the shot precisely in the center of th 'X'. Random guessing will surely cause a squeal and much woe for all.


----------



## redprospector

Sagetown said:


> Whitespider I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, but it's a technique you have to developed. 1st you draw an imaginary 'X' from the inside of the ears to the eyes, and place the shot precisely in the center of th 'X'. Random guessing will surely cause a squeal and much woe for all.



That's the "magic X", or X marks the spot. 
.22 long rifle is the most under rated calliber that ever was.

Andy


----------



## Arbonaut

My buddies not exactly sharp as tacks, but they's heart in the right place. And when it was time for a hoedown, kegger and hog roast they are quite industrious. The word Ilinois actually means , "Keggar."

So goes the wives tale that you kill a hog with a ball peen hammer right between the eyes. I roll in @ 6 A.M. and these guys (brothers) got a 350 pounder in the garage. 

"How are we gonna kill it in town?" I ask.

"The ball peen hammer way, of course don't you know nuthin?" They reply.

So we go in and the hog is quite docile, like a pet. And the older brother winds up and pow, right in the melon. I don't know if the hog was more suprised or mad that someone had just broke his forehead with a 22 oz ball peen, but he didn't hesitate in running through the 9"x7" overhead door with ball peen hammer in his skull run six blocks and dropped dead in a big old pile of leaves the neighborhood retired state trooper's wife was raking. It works, however I'd not call it instant.


----------



## Jim Timber

:msp_laugh: Dammit... gotta clean the screen now.


----------



## Arbonaut

Ronald Reagan said:


> My buddies not exactly sharp as tacks, but they's heart in the right place. And when it was time for a hoedown, kegger and hog roast they are quite industrious. The word Ilinois actually means , "Keggar."
> 
> So goes the wives tale that you kill a hog with a ball peen hammer right between the eyes. I roll in @ 6 A.M. and these guys (brothers) got a 350 pounder in the garage.
> 
> "How are we gonna kill it in town?" I ask.
> 
> "The ball peen hammer way, of course don't you know nuthin?" They reply.
> 
> So we go in and the hog is quite docile, like a pet. And the older brother winds up and pow, right in the melon. I don't know if the hog was more suprised or mad that someone had just broke his forehead with a 22 oz ball peen, but he didn't hesitate in running through the 9"x7" overhead door with ball peen hammer in his skull run six blocks and dropped dead in a big old pile of leaves the neighborhood retired state trooper's wife was raking. It works, however I'd not call it instant.



He ran _through _the door. Not the opening. It was down. Hahaha!!! Those two got a city ordinance wrote for them, it was called, "The Wagner Ordinance." Hahahaha!! Named after those two. I got Wagner stories you won't believe.


----------



## Jim Timber

Yep, that's how I read it. 

I've heard similar stories of people doing their own luau's. They know someone who sells hogs, buy one, get it home, and "look at that thing run!" hahahaha


----------



## Genius.

Sagetown said:


> Jim I hope you're right. But when killing a pig, use a .22 cal with a long rifle bullet. Shoot it between the eyes, and save the squeal.
> In 1970 I watched two Highway Patrolmen try to dispatch a hog with their .357 mags. Bullets bounced right off it's face.



For a pig the best bullet is a .22 FMJ. Hollowpoints don't work so nice, you need that slug to enter deep into its skull.


----------



## dwraisor

I always understood the point of the .22LR on a hog was to knock it unconscious w/out killing it. Then you cut the aorta so that it bleeds out. Speaking of which it is nearly hog killing weather 

Here piggie piggie.

dw


----------



## Genius.

dwraisor said:


> I always understood the point of the .22LR on a hog was to knock it unconscious w/out killing it. Then you cut the aorta so that it bleeds out. Speaking of which it is nearly hog killing weather
> 
> Here piggie piggie.
> 
> dw



No, it needs to be dead before you stick it. It's the humain thing to do


----------



## Genius.

dwraisor said:


> I always understood the point of the .22LR on a hog was to knock it unconscious w/out killing it. Then you cut the aorta so that it bleeds out. Speaking of which it is nearly hog killing weather
> 
> Here piggie piggie.
> 
> dw



Or if the damn thing won't look at you, go right behind the ear, and shoot twords the opposite eye.


----------



## redprospector

TheGenius said:


> No, it needs to be dead before you stick it. It's the humain thing to do



Hmmm, humain...ie: to treat as human..........nope, I'm gonna eat it. I wouldn't do that to a human. 

Andy


----------



## Genius.

Ronald Reagan said:


> My buddies not exactly sharp as tacks, but they's heart in the right place. And when it was time for a hoedown, kegger and hog roast they are quite industrious. The word Ilinois actually means , "Keggar."
> 
> So goes the wives tale that you kill a hog with a ball peen hammer right between the eyes. I roll in @ 6 A.M. and these guys (brothers) got a 350 pounder in the garage.
> 
> "How are we gonna kill it in town?" I ask.
> 
> "The ball peen hammer way, of course don't you know nuthin?" They reply.
> 
> So we go in and the hog is quite docile, like a pet. And the older brother winds up and pow, right in the melon. I don't know if the hog was more suprised or mad that someone had just broke his forehead with a 22 oz ball peen, but he didn't hesitate in running through the 9"x7" overhead door with ball peen hammer in his skull run six blocks and dropped dead in a big old pile of leaves the neighborhood retired state trooper's wife was raking. It works, however I'd not call it instant.



I'm surprised it actually died.... 

A pigs Mellon is a tough thing, and they can be tricky if you don't know what you are doing


----------



## Genius.

redprospector said:


> Hmmm, humain...ie: to treat as human..........nope, I'm gonna eat it. I wouldn't do that to a human.
> 
> Andy



Nah, I don't like animals to suffer.

When I kill one it is as quick as possible. 

Just knocking a pig out so I can stick it...... Not quick enough for me.

Plus it seems like we end up butchering at the end of the day when I want to go home. I want to kill it, gut it and be on my way home asap


----------



## redprospector

TheGenius said:


> Nah, I don't like animals to suffer.
> 
> When I kill one it is as quick as possible.
> 
> Just knocking a pig out so I can stick it...... Not quick enough for me.
> 
> Plus it seems like we end up butchering at the end of the day when I want to go home. I want to kill it, gut it and be on my way home asap



I was just kidding around. I'm on your side on not letting an animal suffer.
I once set up next to some folks from South of the border at a trade day. They decided to cook a goat in the ground. I kicked in a few bucks to buy the goat so that I could eat with them. They hung that goat in the back of their trailer by the back legs, and cut it's throat. Wow, that was awful to see, but sure produced some good eatin'.

Andy


----------



## TreePointer

I once took out a coyote with a 17HMR at 300 yards. Then I shouted, "I am William Wallace!," and shot a lightning bolt from my arse. 

:fart:


----------



## redprospector

TreePointer said:


> I once took out a coyote with a 17HMR at 300 yards. Then I shouted, "I am William Wallace!," and shot a lightning bolt from my arse.
> 
> :fart:



Wow! I would like to have been able to see that. You da man! 

Andy


----------



## Whitespider

Sagetown said:


> Whitespider I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, but it's a technique you have to developed. 1st you draw an imaginary 'X' from the inside of the ears to the eyes, and place the shot precisely in the center of th 'X'. Random guessing will surely cause a squeal and much woe for all.



Yes, I know where the "X" is. That wasn't the first, or last hog I've butchered... but it was the biggest. I raised two or three hogs every year for 6 years, butchered 'em all myself, and I've helped with many a hog roast. After that .22 Long Rifle failure I couldn't trust it any more, started using a .22 Rimfire Magnum with FMJ solids... a little more punch with a heavier constructed bullet, no problems after that.

Like I said, I've pretty much abandoned the rimfire for anything but bouncing beer cans, I just don't find it a reliable "stopper" on small critters. My small vermin rifles are now the .22 Hornet or .218 Bee. I cast a round nose 40-grain bullet that I drive a bit over 2200 FPS. It's more accurate, hits harder, reaches further, and I can load them for about half the cost of buying rimfire ammunition. I hunt small edible game with revolvers and I've gone to using one of the various .32 or .38 calibers, again with my cast bullets... same thing, more accurate, hits harder, reaches further, and I can load them cheaper than any rimfire. Believe it or not, I get less meat damage using those loads instead of the rimfire. Actually, I've now sold or traded all my rimfire guns except three... kept a little Belgium made Browning auto rifle, a scoped Browning Buckmark Target with a 5.5-inch bull barrel, and a Colt Woodsman "Bullseye". I'm bettin' I haven't pressed the trigger on any of 'em in near 5-years now.


----------



## Jim Timber

I don't know how you're reloading a .38 special for the cost of a primer and 4 grains of powder, but you've got my interest piqued. :msp_ohmy:


----------



## Sagetown

dwraisor said:


> I always understood the point of the .22LR on a hog was to knock it unconscious w/out killing it. Then you cut the aorta so that it bleeds out. Speaking of which it is nearly hog killing weather
> 
> Here piggie piggie.
> 
> dw



Exactly. The shot does not kill the hog. His heart needs to pump out all the blood. With the hog on its back, and you astraddle, facing his head, the blade edge facing his chin, insert it into the hollow above the breastbone and towards you down to the hilt. Then pull the handle over towards you so the blade strikes the AORTA. Then retreat quickly to avoid the gusher.


----------



## jdc123

dingeryote said:


> OP was looking for sound and logical advice concerning a real and tangible challenge.
> 
> You just stopped in to offer nothing, make an attempt to demean and belittle anyone who actually DOES have helpfull advice to offer, and then play the pointless insult game, when you got called on your usual trolling drivel.
> 
> Surely you are baiting for such a response, as you have nothing logical, or helpfull, to add to the conversation.
> 
> The thread wasn't about you, or what any other nacissistic and patronizing liberal is opposed to for whatever reason, and damn sure had nothing to do, with not offending your precious sensibilitys, untill you decided it did.
> 
> There is a Reply button, but there isn't a "No Reply" button. Pity. Must be a software flaw due to oversight, causing your confusion.
> 
> Possibly it is difficult to figure out, but please endeavor to cease the obvious trolling, by not selecting the "Reply" button. Adults are having a conversation, politely go away unless you have something substantive and helpfull to add, and quit baiting for your own twisted need of validation.
> 
> Nobody is making you, look as bad as you. Don't kid yourself, that bath water you have been guzzling is going to drown you.


Truest thing I've read on this thread.


----------



## dwraisor

TheGenius said:


> No, it needs to be dead before you stick it. It's the humain thing to do



I don't want any animal to suffer either, it is just how I have always heard it described. If it is rendered unconscious, it would not feel the "stick". I've never been a part of it but all the farmers I know talk about how the heart needs to pump them dry or the meat doesn't taste as good.... 


Only cutting of a pig I was a part of was holding the litter fellow so the farmer could make "him" a not so "him" Well he squealed, momma come through the electric fence, I dropped the little guy on it's head and jumped the cattle gate. Of course that was 20 some-odd years ago.


dw


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## Whitespider

Jim Timber said:


> I don't know how you're reloading a .38 special for the cost of a primer and 4 grains of powder, but you've got my interest piqued. :msp_ohmy:



Well, just do the math... I hadn't purchased primers, propellent or rimfire ammunition for a few years (plenty on hand) so I went on line to get some current prices.

A 50-round box of Winchester Super-X high velocity rimfire solids is $3.oo (not the promo ammo, the real stuff).

The bullet costs me nothing, I cast them from scrap wheel weights I get free (I was in the business, contacts ya' know).
1000 Federal small pistol primers are $26.oo, or $o.026 per round;
1# of Winchester 231 is $17.oo, or $o.00243 per grain, times 4 is $o.0097 per round;
That comes to a little less than $o.04 per round... I can reload a 50-round box of .38's for something under $2.oo.

That's at today's prices... But just to let you know, my ammunition comes in quite a bit cheaper. The last time I bought any primers I believe I paid around $12.oo per 1000, and the last time I bought W231 it was $9.99 per pound (the 5# keg still has the price tag on it, $49.95). Really, I'm loading a 50-round box of .38's for a something under a buck. I suppose ya' have to figure something for the energy/power used to melt the lead, and the bullet lube (I make myself)... but still.

addendum; Heck, using cast bullets I can load a box of full-blown .44 Magnum for less than a box of (non-promo) rimfire ammunition.


----------



## Genius.

Whitespider said:


> Yes, I know where the "X" is. That wasn't the first, or last hog I've butchered... but it was the biggest. I raised two or three hogs every year for 6 years, butchered 'em all myself, and I've helped with many a hog roast. After that .22 Long Rifle failure I couldn't trust it any more, started using a .22 Rimfire Magnum with FMJ solids... a little more punch with a heavier constructed bullet, no problems after that.
> 
> Like I said, I've pretty much abandoned the rimfire for anything but bouncing beer cans, I just don't find it a reliable "stopper" on small critters. My small vermin rifles are now the .22 Hornet or .218 Bee. I cast a round nose 40-grain bullet that I drive a bit over 2200 FPS. It's more accurate, hits harder, reaches further, and I can load them for about half the cost of buying rimfire ammunition. I hunt small edible game with revolvers and I've gone to using one of the various .32 or .38 calibers, again with my cast bullets... same thing, more accurate, hits harder, reaches further, and I can load them cheaper than any rimfire. Believe it or not, I get less meat damage using those loads instead of the rimfire. Actually, I've now sold or traded all my rimfire guns except three... kept a little Belgium made Browning auto rifle, a scoped Browning Buckmark Target with a 5.5-inch bull barrel, and a Colt Woodsman "Bullseye". I'm bettin' I haven't pressed the trigger on any of 'em in near 5-years now.



I have yet to not have a pig go down with a plain ole 22 long. I've killed a few of them. 

During summer time we are usually butchering 2-3 a week...


----------



## Jim Timber

I guess your time is worth nothing to you then. 

No worries. I shoot the $1.50/box .22lr ammo.


----------



## TreePointer

I do know a guy who oftne carries a .22LR semi-auto for personal protection. He really is sold on segmented hp bullets and the damage they do. 

For what it's worth, he also uses Amsoil at 100:1. To each his own, eh?


----------



## ancy

TreePointer said:


> I do know a guy who oftne carries a .22LR semi-auto for personal protection. He really is sold on segmented hp bullets and the damage they do.
> 
> For what it's worth, he also uses Amsoil at 100:1. To each his own, eh?



I carry a. 22LR often in the summer for CC. You can get better ballistics than a .25 auto and hides better than a Glock 17! For me Woodland Pro 44:1!

Sent from my XT881 using Tapatalk 2


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## Whitespider

Jim Timber said:


> *I guess your time is worth nothing to you then. *



Sure, I value my time... I value it highly. But we all make choices with our time.

How often do we see someone, on this forum, championing the savings realized by heating with wood? Yet rarely is the cost of their "time" figured into those savings. If it is questioned, the defense is something like, "_I don't count my time because I love cutting wood, it like a hobby to me."_ Firearms and shooting are my first pastime love, I was shooting before I saw my first schoolyard, and making my own ammunition before I left Grammar School.

We all make choices with our time. Some things we're willing to spend our "time" on, other things we're willing to spend our money on (money normally acquired through use of our "time"). If we figured the "value" of our "time" for everything... well, we'd do nothing. Cut the grass = "time". Clean the house = "time". Train the dog = "time". Cook breakfast = "time". It isn't that we put a "value" on our "time", rather we prioritize our "time"... and for purposes of personal sanity, balance it between work, chores, play, hobbies, family, etc.

I've said this before... To me, a chainsaw (or saws) isn't part of a hobby, it's just a tool; And I don't necessarily "enjoy" making firewood, it's just one of those chores. If I had to "scrounge" for wood, drive after it, and whatnot I wouldn't do it... I do it because I have "wood" growing all around my house. For me it's relatively convenient and easy, saves money, and requires comparatively little "time". I seriously don't believe my pickup has ever hauled a single stick of firewood. Making my own ammunition is a hobby, something I "enjoy", saves me money (especially as much as I shoot), and darn sure requires less "time" than making firewood. Besides, a fella' needs something to do on those cold rainy days.


----------



## Sagetown

My older brother got me into reloading back in 1959, and I've been cutting firewood for heating since '62'. I enjoy those two, and I enjoy it when the wife mows the grass.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Jim Timber

I don't waste my time hand loading plinking ammo. We're just different like that. I'll spend the full $.03/rd on a 500 pack and enjoy extra range time instead.


----------



## ancy

Sagetown said:


> My older brother got me into reloading back in 1959, and I've been cutting firewood for heating since '62'. I enjoy those two, and I enjoy it when the wife mows the grass.:hmm3grin2orange:



Me too!







View attachment 255478


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## dwraisor

Whitespider said:


> ...We all make choices with our time. Some things we're willing to spend our "time" on, other things we're willing to spend our money on (money normally acquired through use of our "time"). If we figured the "value" of our "time" for everything... well, we'd do nothing. Cut the grass = "time". Clean the house = "time". Train the dog = "time". Cook breakfast = "time". It isn't that we put a "value" on our "time", rather we prioritize our "time"... and for purposes of personal sanity, balance it between work, chores, play, hobbies, family, etc...



This is very true. While I used to enjoy turning a wrench on my car, I now take it to the dealer for an oil change. Why? I value my time more. For $42 they change the oil, rotate the tires, check the brakes, top-off fluids. For me just to change oil is an hour of my time, and ~$25 in materials. Then the rotation of tires is another hour, and fluids... and if I pay myself what my employer pays me, well I can hardly afford myself. :msp_biggrin: 

My dealer has Wi-Fi, so I take my work laptop into the dealer, they change the oil while I am "on the clock". It wastes none of my personal time, that I have very little of for chores these days.

What some people see as work or a chore, other see as free stress relief or exercise or just enjoyable. I really enjoy being in the woods, be it hunting, running a saw, or just walking. I value that time more than most anything else…

dw


----------



## Whitespider

Jim Timber said:


> I don't waste my time hand loading plinking ammo. We're just different like that. I'll spend the full $.03/rd on a 500 pack and enjoy extra range time instead.



I do very little "plinking", I use range time to keep my eye sharp and tune the mechanics... besides, a rimfire won't knock down heavy steel "way-out-yonder".
Range time? I don't know what you use for a shootin' range Jim, but here's my 100-yard handgun range.
I built it in my backyard, all swinging/falling steel... the bench (not in the pic) is less than 100 feet from the back door.

Shootin' and cuttin' wood are both just outside my door... never any drivin' involved.


----------



## benp

Whitespider said:


> I do very little "plinking", I use range time to keep my eye sharp and tune the mechanics... besides, a rimfire won't knock down heavy steel "way-out-yonder".
> Range time? I don't know what you use for a shootin' range Jim, but here's my 100-yard handgun range.
> I built it in my backyard, all swinging/falling steel... the bench (not in the pic) is less than 100 feet from the back door.
> 
> Shootin' and cuttin' wood are both just outside my door... never any drivin' involved.



WOW!!!!:msp_w00t:

That is AWESOME WS!!!!!

Very cool to have to shoot on all the time.:msp_thumbup: I'd much rather do that than punch holes in paper.


----------



## ancy

Whitespider said:


> I do very little "plinking", I use range time to keep my eye sharp and tune the mechanics... besides, a rimfire won't knock down heavy steel "way-out-yonder".
> Range time? I don't know what you use for a shootin' range Jim, but here's my 100-yard handgun range.
> I built it in my backyard, all swinging/falling steel... the bench (not in the pic) is less than 100 feet from the back door.
> 
> Shootin' and cuttin' wood are both just outside my door... never any drivin' involved.



I think you need to have the next GTG, shooting, saws, or both.


----------



## Jim Timber

Ever do man vs. man? Gets expensive learning speed mechanics with spendy bullets. I'd much rather spend 2-4 bucks than $200 working on my speed of target acquisition in an afternoon.

I shoot at my property. The problem is, as you might have seen in other threads - my 800yd personal range is still a forest.  So I'm kinda busy when I'm in the woods. I don't get to just step out the back step, I've had to spend dozens of hours hauling logs just to not have to winch the atv through my swamp.


----------



## Captain CaveMan

I'm in bear country when I'm cutting so I wear a Ruger super blackhawk 44 Magnum... at home I use a Mossberg chainsaw with two tactical lights and a laser mounted on it for home defense against cougars and coyotes. The lights are for when I'm on the farm for the coyotes etc the laser I've never used since its for the walks upright type of predators and that doesn't happen out here  I have a clip mounted to the side with 3" mag buckshot and slugs, but she normally is packing 3" mag bb sized in the tube. I live at the base of the mtns around 5500 and cut about 6500


----------



## TreePointer

cattoon said:


> *My choice is a Ruger GP-100 stainless with a 4 in barrel*
> 
> 1. Reliable
> 2. Accurate
> 3. reasonably priced if you shop around for a used one.
> 4. 357 magnum, because I like to bring enough gun.
> But if I anticipate a real potential to have to shoot, 12 rem 870 with buckshot.



I haven't purchased any guns in over 3 years, so I decided to stop by my fav gun store today to see one. They only had the SP101 (lighter w/2.25" bbl). Dealer said Ruger is mucho backordered with a lot of their models, but I placed an order for one anyway. Got a good discount, too!

Ruger® GP100® Double-Action Revolver Model 1705

I blame all of you for driving me to this purchase. You suck!


----------



## Captain CaveMan

Sweet gun acquisition disease is much worse , staggeringly so for me, luckily I have a good wife who understands my love for guns....


----------



## Whitespider

I haven't purchased a *new* gun in over 20 years now... the "older" stuff is more to my liking.
I don't care for stainless steel (I do have one stainless revolver), I hate plastic/rubber/Kevlar stocks and grips (I do have a couple), and those glow worm fish lure sights they put on so many now days are flat ugly in my opinion... not to mention they're totally worthless for precision shooting. There hasn't been a proper trigger on a firearm since the early 70's, and most can't even be made proper without a major overhaul.

My thinkin' is a firearm should shoot well and look good... it should a piece of craftsman art. I still prefer the look and feel of polished blue steel and hand rubbed wood. Anything made of synthetics does not belong on a firearm, it belongs on a child's toy... even the sling should be made of heavy saddle leather. Every *new* gun I look at has stainless, aluminum alloy and/or "plastic" parts of some sort... they leave me cold and uninterested. The last gun I bought (at a gun show) was a S&W K38 Combat Masterpiece built in 1958... it was on a table amongst dozens of those hi-cap plastic pistols that I hate with a passion. While everyone was drooling over the plastic pieces of crap, I spotted the walnut grips protruding from an old leather holster... and bought it for a song. I got the best deal at the whole show, yet no one even noticed it.


----------



## Sagetown

If I was to choose a new gun to carry in the woods it would be my dream gun { the S&W 325 Thunder Ranch}. Guess I'll just keep on dreamin'.


----------



## RandyMac

My current outdoor piece is a Ruger SA .45LC/ACP with 4 5/8" barrel. I'm not a big fan of semiautos.


----------



## TreePointer

Whitespider said:


>



That's a beauty, Spidey! I wanted stainless because this will be in some pretty harsh conditions. My favorite guns (no matter what type) are blue with walnut stocks/grips. Make it a nice curly maple and I can't resist.


----------



## Sagetown

RandyMac said:


> My current outdoor piece is a Ruger SA .45LC/ACP with 4 5/8" barrel. I'm not a big fan of semiautos.



Me neither Randy. In VietNam I was issued a S&W 10 because I didn't like the auto .45's.
My 1st assignment was to ride shotgun in a jeep from the field to retrieve crypt messages from DaNang city after dark. Boy was that energizing.


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## Sagetown

Found this pic of the S&W USAF Model 10?,I carried. Pic was in the DaNang Hotel, a US Army R&R Center.


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## RandyMac

Cougars killing our pets, residents of Seattle-area city fear - U.S. News


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## dingeryote

RandyMac said:


> Cougars killing our pets, residents of Seattle-area city fear - U.S. News



"My Kitty never hurt nobody, and he didn't no Nuffin!" :hmm3grin2orange:

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## RandyMac

The attack of the middle aged women.


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## ft. churchill

I never leave home without my Glock 27.:msp_biggrin:


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## Alex D

super3 said:


> This might have turned out different if she was packin'
> 
> 
> Coyotes kill woman in Canadian park - World news - Americas | NBC News



From memory that woman was at fault for the coyotes attacking her. She was one of those hippy/animal rights/green peace/enivronmentalists who love to proclaim their love of wild animals but have zero experience with them which usually leads to bad things. 

I believe she actually bended down to try and pet a coyote and that left her stomach exposed and at a perfect height for the yote and thats when it attacked. Essentially she triggered a predatory response as that is where yotes go after bigger prey eg deer for the stomach. 

Now once an animal has attacked a human in a predatory fashion it must be killed because it will view humans as prey, easy prey at that and there is a high chance it will attack again. In these cases usually triggered by the aforementioned people it has tragic consequences both for the human and the animal involved due to human stupidity and ignorance. 

Coyotes aren't evil neither are wolves, they are just coyotes and wolves killing large and small animals is a part of their nature. So while they do kill deer, moose and other animals in gruesome ways at times I don't hate them for that. However their population must be managed so that it doesn't get out of control and lead to a decrease in moose and deer population and a sharo increase in wolves. When wolves or yotes are overpopulated its not just bad for the prey for themselves as well. Overpopulation leads to starvation and also more disease such as say mange. And here's what a wolf suffering from mange looks like:

View attachment 257315


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## Jim Timber

[video=youtube_share;NqVE9qfg7yI]http://youtu.be/NqVE9qfg7yI[/video]

If you think they're all friendly or afraid of people, you're kidding yourself. When they get hungry enough, they get bold.


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## benp

Jim Timber said:


> [video=youtube_share;NqVE9qfg7yI]http://youtu.be/NqVE9qfg7yI[/video]
> 
> If you think they're all friendly or afraid of people, you're kidding yourself. When they get hungry enough, they get bold.



Holy Cow!!!!

I'm dying here. Which Mckenzie brother was that? I was waiting for him to call the yote "Hoser."

Joking aside, that was a VERY interesting interaction. Almost seemed like it was quasi playing. I sure as heck would not have turned my back on it though like he did there for a bit. 

Definitely a healthy looking dog.


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## hardpan

You make the call. Was the coyote just playing? What would the coyote do if the guy started running away instead of standing his ground? A child would probably run away, then what?


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## Jim Timber

"Hey, stop eating my boot ya hoser!"  I know, I had the same thoughts the first time I saw it.

So let me ask something: why would an adult yote "play" with a human by biting at his foot?

I interpret that behavior as testing the waters. The yote isn't sure what this guy is going to do when he gets close, so he's skittish at first but then gains confidence that maybe this is a meal and gets closer and closer, eventually trying to have a taste.

What would've been really interesting, and probably changed the outcome of this encounter, is had the guy been wearing soft shoes.


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## benp

hardpan said:


> You make the call. Was the coyote just playing? What would the coyote do if the guy started running away instead of standing his ground? A child would probably run away, then what?



Unfortunately I believe it would be really really bad. 



Jim Timber said:


> "Hey, stop eating my boot ya hoser!"  I know, I had the same thoughts the first time I saw it.
> 
> So let me ask something: why would an adult yote "play" with a human by biting at his foot?
> 
> I interpret that behavior as testing the waters. The yote isn't sure what this guy is going to do when he gets close, so he's skittish at first but then gains confidence that maybe this is a meal and gets closer and closer, eventually trying to have a taste.
> 
> What would've been really interesting, and probably changed the outcome of this encounter, is had the guy been wearing soft shoes.




I agree. It was as if the coyote was trying to provoke a "flight" response in the guy, if he turn and ran he becomes prey. Touque and all. 

Just a WAG as I am no dog whisperer.

Ballsy coyote that's for sure. I wouldn't have been as (cough) tolerant.


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## Jim Timber

It would've been a rug @20yds.


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## Rudedog

Jim Timber said:


> It would've been a rug @20yds.



Slowp isn't going to like that.....


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## Jim Timber

If I had a rifle, I wouldn't wait that long. :msp_thumbsup:


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## redprospector

Some dim wit has been feeding that coyote. I've seen that a few times. If you feed the wild life you might as well be the one that pulls the trigger, because someone's going to have to kill it before long. Happens mostly with bears around here. Darn shame too.

Andy


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## lmbrman

Few years back we had a coyote that became way too bold. I waited six months hoping it would leave, but lmbrkid was three at the time and i decided to dispatch the yote. Dog, wife, cat all had what i will call encounters. Coyote always hid from me, but i knew it was marking anywhere the dog went, so I walked the dog around the yard, sat on the deck and waited. I was careful, did not rush to make the decision, and was purposeful and deliberate in my action. 22 ruger handgun at close range.

Cat was much more relaxed after Cat's name is Feral.


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## benp

Not so cute and cuddly anymore. "Step off hoser" isn't going to cut it this time.

Don't underestimate the killing power of a coyote. Right for the throat. -

Some may find this graphic. 

[video=youtube_share;guQDH_fPydQ]http://youtu.be/guQDH_fPydQ[/video]


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## lmbrman

thanks for posting that video as i was deciding what to do the next time a coyote comes within 50' of my family


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## Rudedog

lmbrman said:


> thanks for posting that video as i was deciding what to do the next time a coyote comes within 50' of my family



Will you call SlowP?


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## lmbrman

Rudedog said:


> Will you call SlowP?



Dont have her number or know what to call her


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## benp

lmbrman said:


> thanks for posting that video as i was deciding what to do the next time a coyote comes within 50' of my family



I'll take "Something that ends with a "click" of some sort resulting from an emptied cylinder or slide/bolt locking back on an empty magazine." for $500 Alex.

Just my wild guess.

I was never good at Jeopardy anyways......


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## Genius.

Rudedog said:


> Slowp isn't going to like that.....





Rudedog said:


> Will you call SlowP?



You better watch out, he will tell you not to move over there:bang::bang:


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## RandyMac

A handgun is ok for most times, but anything that needs stopped right there needs a long gun.
My Bro had a Ruger .44 Mag semi-auto carbine, what a hammering it handed out.


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## Genius.

lmbrman said:


> thanks for posting that video as i was deciding what to do the next time a coyote comes within 50' of my family



I would need to buy a stretcher and a large fleshing beam.


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## Genius.

RandyMac said:


> A handgun is ok for most times, but anything that needs stopped right there needs a long gun.
> My Bro had a Ruger .44 Mag semi-auto carbine, what a hammering it handed out.



If it absolutely needs to be killed at shorter range, 45/70


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## RandyMac

Genius. said:


> If it absolutely needs to be killed at shorter range, 45/70



Dead right there

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895g.asp


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## Genius.

RandyMac said:


> Dead right there
> 
> http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895g.asp



Hmm...

When I take a ride around my property tonight I'm taking mine to go after the possum out back

I only have 400gr LRN loaded though, think it'll take care of a possum?

I'll post results later


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## RandyMac

For lighter game, LoL!!

Winchester Super X 45-70 Govt 300gr JHP - Sportsman's Warehouse


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## lmbrman

RandyMac said:


> A handgun is ok for most times, but anything that needs stopped right there needs a long gun.
> My Bro had a Ruger .44 Mag semi-auto carbine, what a hammering it handed out.



yea, first coyote i shot was with a handgun cause i still was not sure i would shoot at it, and figured if it was in range of a handgun I should fire.

I am now willing to 'go long' on coyotes :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Genius.

RandyMac said:


> For lighter game, LoL!!
> 
> Winchester Super X 45-70 Govt 300gr JHP - Sportsman's Warehouse



That might not damage the pelts so much:msp_biggrin:


Dang it... It's raining out, the possum and coon will meet the big dog tomorrow night:msp_wub::msp_wub:


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## Jim Timber

Let me guess, .50 AE for tree rats Randy?


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## RandyMac

Jim Timber said:


> Let me guess, .50 AE for tree rats Randy?



Pin 'em with a crossbow and watch 'em wriggle.


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## Jim Timber

Since it costs me 10 bucks a arrow or bolt + head - I stopped putting sticks into tree rats. I stick with the $.03 .22lr.


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## Genius.

Jim Timber said:


> Since it costs me 10 bucks a arrow or bolt + head - I stopped putting sticks into tree rats. I stick with the $.03 .22lr.



Holy crap!!! I thought bullets were expensive...


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## RandyMac

I avoid putting lead or copper into trees, they don't like it.


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## Jim Timber

Because high carbon steel is so much better...

I shoot them on the ground more than anything.

Arrows and bolts cost me the same $5 because I stock up for the year at the annual employee discount sale at cabela's for card holders. Then I get cheap broad heads, because I typically lose most arrows/bolts I fire at anything but a bag or block target.

The muzzy mx3 I shot my deer with survived, but with a bent blade due to hitting a rock in the dirt. I had an arrow go into a stump decay hole hidden by leaves last year after passing clear through the tree rat, and I still haven't found it.

Outside of hunting, my sticks last a long time as long as I don't shoot groups and trash them on one another.


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## SawTroll

RandyMac said:


> I avoid putting lead or copper into trees, they don't like it.



Who would like that? :msp_biggrin:


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## Jim Timber

I'm sure they're feeling all happy and tickled when being cut down too.


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## lmbrman

some horses got attacked by a cougar last week here, DNR suggested playing a radio to keep the cats away. I wonder what type of music will drive the big cats away and if we really should 'stereo' type big cats 

Also, DNR offered advice on staying safe if encountering a big cat-

WI DNR_ "Cougars are not considered a threat to public safety, if you are confronted by one, never run. Instead, face the cougar, spread your arms and open your coat or jacket if you're wearing one to appear larger."

I wore a really big jacket to the woods today instead of a gun, but i got scared by noon cause it was 72' here and i wanted to take the jacket off.


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## Rudedog

lmbrman said:


> some horses got attacked by a cougar last week here, DNR suggested playing a radio to keep the cats away. I wonder what type of music will drive the big cats away and if we really should 'stereo' type big cats
> 
> Also, DNR offered advice on staying safe if encountering a big cat-
> 
> WI DNR_ "Cougars are not considered a threat to public safety, if you are confronted by one, never run. Instead, face the cougar, spread your arms and open your coat or jacket if you're wearing one to appear larger."
> 
> I wore a really big jacket to the woods today instead of a gun, but i got scared by noon cause it was 72' here and i wanted to take the jacket off.



I would hope you were standing next to SlowP with your track shoes on..... she seems to have all of the non firearm answers.


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## dwraisor

Genius. said:


> Holy crap!!! I thought bullets were expensive...



Have friends that have spent up to $30/arrow...


dw


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## rmh3481

MAC-10 in .45


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## slinger

lmbrman said:


> some horses got attacked by a cougar last week here, DNR suggested playing a radio to keep the cats away. I wonder what type of music will drive the big cats away and if we really should 'stereo' type big cats



I am pretty sure Taylor Swift Albums are lethal or will at least make the cats suicidal :msp_wink:


I like taking my 24/7 9mm to the woods for general purpose use. Holds 17 shots and I don't mind the wear it gets in my coat or pack.


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## Jim Timber

Be careful what you play to your big cats - the wrong music selection could make them hunt you down for revenge. 

How can we feed justin bieber to a cougar?


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## Rudedog

Jim Timber said:


> Be careful what you play to your big cats - the wrong music selection could make them hunt you down for revenge.
> 
> How can we feed justin bieber to a cougar?



By shaving his hair to avoid any indigestion problems.


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## lmbrman

going back to a vest tomorrow- it has a inside pocket for what makes me feel safer than a jacket, usually my glock 17, although in the summer i would like something smaller framed


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## Sagetown

I'm not so sure a chain saw would deter a big hungry cat. It may turn out to be a calling card.
Like that feller cutting firewood from a woodlot for several days. He noticed a buck deer would come up to the edge of a clearing and watch him. Just like clockwork, he'd start the saw, and there would be that buck. So opening day of deer season the guy took his rifle along to the woodlot. He fired up his saw, and began working as usual, and there stood ole Bambie. Boom! DRT.


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## dwraisor

Sagetown said:


> I'm not so sure a chain saw would deter a big hungry cat. It may turn out to be a calling card.




I have heard that some are learning to associate mountain bikes w/ easy meals. Read a story about one cat that took out a mntn biker or two before they killed the cat. 

dw


Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk


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## Jim Timber

Like teasing with a laser pointer... Just makes em run faster before the pounce.


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## dingeryote

Jim Timber said:


> Like teasing with a laser pointer... Just makes em run faster before the pounce.



I am honestly surprised the Hippies out west aren't already using Laser pointers for Mountain lion defense.

Gotta admit that it would be hillarious to watch though.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## RandyMac

Laser pointers? How gay is that?

I do know a sharp hatchet and a Celtic War-cry works well on panthers.


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## dingeryote

RandyMac said:


> Laser pointers? How gay is that?
> 
> I do know a sharp hatchet and a Celtic War-cry works well on panthers.



Yeah, but it lacks the entertainment value of kitty cat Hippie snacks.

I fully endorse the Laser pointer as Cougar defense....SHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! Darwin at work.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Genius.

dingeryote said:


> I am honestly surprised the Hippies out west aren't already using Laser pointers for Mountain lion defense.
> 
> Gotta admit that it would be hillarious to watch though.
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



Maybe that's how slowp gets away from them


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