# SRT or DRT for pruning?



## Newguy12358 (Oct 18, 2012)

Hey guys. I would like to hear the pro's and con's of DRT and SRT in a situation where you are climbing away from the trunk and are in a situation where you are pruning.
Thanks as always,
Newguy


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## smokey01 (Oct 18, 2012)

Newguy12358 said:


> Hey guys. I would like to hear the pro's and con's of DRT and SRT in a situation where you are climbing away from the trunk and are in a situation where you are pruning.
> Thanks as always,
> Newguy



Seems like clear cut question to me, but you will get the full range of comments, many experienced climber prefer DdRT just because that is how they are used to doing it and that goes beyond just being set in your ways, it has to do with your life hanging on a rope and the security you get from that.........my opinion given my experience. I will address the whole tree access as I think it applies the same way if you are just, "climbing away from the trunk and are in a situation where you are pruning".

DdRT
Pros....

It is less expensive; with just a carabiner, saddle and rope, you are in business assuming you use a Blakes Hitch or similar.
2:1 mechanical advantage when climbing.
Depending on your anchor, usually you are not going to double the force at your tie in point.

Cons...
More climbing line required.
Need for re-directs.
Usually have to return the way you came, clean up your re-directs and exit the tree the same place you entered.
Difficult to use multiple crotches to lessen the forces at your TIP of needed.


SRT....
Cons....

Need for a little more gear, at minimum something like a Unincender or Rope Wrench, micro pulley and eye to eye prusik.
May put more force on your TIP if anchored to the base of a tree.

Pros...This could be much more than I will list, but basically...

Faster climb because every foot you pull up is a foot you go up.
No need for re-directs, go where you want and exit the tree where you want. (given of course you have needed climbing line)
You can still use the tail of your climbing line for a DdRT lanyard to move around the tree for example pulling yourself out on a steep limb walk. 
No need to set a friction saver.
You can easily use multiple crotches to lessen the weight or force at a TIP anchor. With the correct angles you can be out hanging from a limb and not put *any *downward force on that anchor. 
The list can go on and on I'm sure. Other than, "I have always done it this way" or "I don't want to spend 125 bucks for more gear", I can't see a reason not to go SRT.


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## ATH (Oct 18, 2012)

smokey01 said:


> ...DdRT
> ....
> Cons...
> *More climbing line required.
> ....



Not sure about that one... When doing SRT, I tie onto the trunk with the other end. That takes more rope than just two loose ends hanging down.

I think both have a place and a good climber should be able to use which ever fits the job.

Personally, I'll use DdRT if setup is easy. If setup is going to be a pain, I'll Just SRT. I used to spend a lot of time fighting to get the climb set up for DdRT because that is what I was comfortable with (like smokey said!), but once I decided to give SRT a try, I found it is no more difficult.

FWIW, I personally use the same hardware for both set-ups.


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## smokey01 (Oct 18, 2012)

ATH said:


> Not sure about that one... When doing SRT, I tie onto the trunk with the other end. That takes more rope than just two loose ends hanging down....
> FWIW, I personally use the same hardware for both set-ups.



I understand what you say and respect the experience that you have. Being a new climber of course I favor SRT, that is my first choice. And my _first _choice of anchor is to isolate the intended branch with an alpine butterfly. For these reasons....
1.) I do not double the force on the branch plus I can take my line with me if I go to another tree or location in the tree. 
2.) I have the advantage of SRT 1:1 ascending plus I don't have to set a friction saver. 
2.5) I get less stretch and wear on the rope as I am hanging from (in today's case) 75' of line and not using 150' (the same line goes up and back down making 150')of line. Of course friction has a big effect on this, but you are still stretching out 150' of line plus friction = wear. 
If my climb line is a little short for an alpine butterfly anchor and I'm not 100% certain I will get to that point or I may come down at this point, I extend my line with the throw line for recovery. (I just did this this afternoon, started out with an anchor at the base of the tree and changed my mind as I was going to come down an adjacent pine tree that was about 20' away. My anchor was 75') 
If isolating the branch is not in my best interest I anchor to the base of the tree or adjacent tree.

Question and you know the answer, this is not a test or a trap, just thinking...
"Cons...
*More climbing line required."
To get to a 80' foot anchor DdRT, how much climbing line do you need? 160'+- right? To get there with SRT, how much climbing line do I need? answer: As little as 90' plus throw line if I want to recover it from the ground. 

I'm interested.........what is the same hardware that you use for your SRT that you use for DdRT, Unicender?


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## ATH (Oct 19, 2012)

smokey01 said:


> ....And my _first _choice of anchor is to isolate the intended branch with an alpine butterfly. For these reasons.........
> Question and you know the answer, this is not a test or a trap, just thinking...
> .....
> To get to a 80' foot anchor DdRT, how much climbing line do you need? 160'+- right? To get there with SRT, how much climbing line do I need? answer: As little as 90' plus throw line if I want to recover it from the ground.


I guess I am answering this question for myself, not you... If I can isolate a branch, i am doing DdRT. If that is going to take too much time, I'll go SRT. So, for that situation, I need the rope to go up and back down so I'll tie the non-working end to the trunk...so to get to 80', I need 160'+ enough length to do a few wraps around the tree (thought I could just tie a knot and clip into back into the rope with just one wrap. Additionally, since the rope is not isolated, extra length is taken up snaking around. So to reach 80' with my SRT set-up, I need closer to 200' of rope....but only 155' for DdRT.

Having said all of that, you are correct...a 80' climb is possible with a 90' rope using SRT, where it is impossible to DdRT that.




smokey01 said:


> I'm interested.........what is the same hardware that you use for your SRT that you use for DdRT, Unicender?


I just use a eye-to-eye friction knot with a pully to assist advancing it. I have a rope walker and traditinal ascender, but they sit in the truck. I know I should put an ascender under that knot for a second tie in.


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## imagineero (Oct 19, 2012)

smokey01 said:


> Being a new climber of course I favor SRT, that is my first choice. And my _first _choice of anchor is to isolate the intended branch with an alpine butterfly. For these reasons....



If you are doing this on a regular basis, it's good to get into the habit of using two different colored ropes, one for each side of the alpine butterfly. This helps avoid the potentially lethal possibility of switching over in the tree for some reason and clipping into the wrong side of the rope. Red and green is a good combination, with green the safe rope, and red the deadly one. Using throw line for the retrieve side is the safest option by far.

It sounds like something that would never happen, but in mountaineering people use the alpine butterfly technique often for rope retrieval. There have been several deaths as a result. 

Shaun


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## smokey01 (Oct 20, 2012)

imagineero said:


> If you are doing this on a regular basis, it's good to get into the habit of using two different colored ropes, one for each side of the alpine butterfly. This helps avoid the potentially lethal possibility ......Shaun





ATH said:


> I guess I am answering this question for myself, not you... If I can isolate a branch, i am doing DdRT.....



Both excellent ideas, I appreciate the feedback. No, you were not answering the question yourself, it was just that I was proposing the question with an answer from my perspective and did not want to appear to be "testing". Lots of questions have multiple correct answers and yours is a good one, thanks. 

The method I have been using comes from my discussion with Joe Harris and his suggestions at the Portland convention. You have added to this. I have some other comments as you both have given me reason to improve on this technique. I'll just make the comments in another section of this forum. 

By the way, love Australia, spent 2 years there when I was young, Sydney, Brisbane and surrounding areas. Went back about a year ago for vacation to NSW and Queensland but damn, it is so expensive there for a yank. Movie tickets 25 bucks each! Crap, there was no way I was going to be able to get popcorn and a drink!


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Oct 21, 2012)

Each climb type has its place. SRT puts less wear and tear on the body. Years latter you will notice this. Climb smart. Not harder.


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## beastmaster (Oct 21, 2012)

If your not using both technics your cheating your self. SRT is beyond a doubt the best way to enter a big tree, but not all trees are suitable for SRT trimming. On long limb walks and a less then perfect tip, Ddrt rules. Being able to held a piece if rope in each hand to help balance you is great. On the right tree snaking your line through and coming down on top of areas that need work, SRT rules. I almost always secure my SRT on the base of the tree. so to make it back down I need a long rope. You can advance your Ddrt line as you climb tossing it up or what ever. You can stop and put your Ddrt over a lower branch on the way down if its to short.
Working off a SRT line with your weight on it, even nicking it with the hand saw will cause it to pop. If you tie in for SRT on a high branch, you have to go up and retrieve it. Sure you can use a throw line rope to get it down but that's another thing you have to Carrie, put up, and get tangled up in. When I do use a tie in up high, I come down Ddrt using the gri gri. I often use both in a tree. You use what best finishes the job.


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## smokey01 (Oct 21, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> If your not using both technics your cheating your self. SRT is beyond a doubt the best way to enter a big tree, but not all trees are suitable for SRT trimming. On long limb walks and a less then perfect tip, Ddrt rules. Being able to held a piece if rope in each hand to help balance you is great. On the right tree snaking your line through and coming down on top of areas that need work, SRT rules. I almost always secure my SRT on the base of the tree. so to make it back down I need a long rope. You can advance your Ddrt line as you climb tossing it up or what ever. You can stop and put your Ddrt over a lower branch on the way down if its to short.
> Working off a SRT line with your weight on it, even nicking it with the hand saw will cause it to pop. If you tie in for SRT on a high branch, you have to go up and retrieve it. Sure you can use a throw line rope to get it down but that's another thing you have to Carrie, put up, and get tangled up in. When I do use a tie in up high, I come down Ddrt using the gri gri. I often use both in a tree. You use what best finishes the job.



Great tips from an experience climber, enjoyed reading that! Thanks, I'd pay just to watch you work. "wait a minute, that's one of those, "that's what she said" jokes.


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