# Ordered a Cannon quarter tip bar today...



## TraditionalTool (May 7, 2009)

This forum doesn't seem very active, and I'm not really going to be carving, but I did order a carving bar today.

I ordered a Cannon quarter tip bar from Jamie Doeren (chainsawsculpture.com) which is is going to bring the side down for me so they do not taper as much.

I plan to cut dovetail joinery for a long home, as well as do the mortises in the top plate logs for the 2nd story floor joists. Jamie recommended a quarter tip for cutting/cleaning the mortises. However, my concern with the quarter tip was that the bar has a fairly drastic taper, and I wasn't sure how I was view that. On smaller joinery which I use handaws for, I tend to prefer the edge fo the saw to be square to how I am cutting. Jamie offered to grind the sides down to overcome that effect.

I was going to get the Toonie tip, thinking that would be better, but it was good to talk to someone that does build log homes, because he knew exactly what I was referring to and what would work.

I ordered a Husky 336 (NOS) and await it's arrival, and Jamie will be sending me a new 1/4" pitch spur sprocket, the Cannon bar, and 1/4" Oregon 25ap chain.

Who knows, I may turn into a carver over time...but in the meantime I have some joinery I want to take care of.


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## carvinmark (May 9, 2009)

Let us know how good it works for you.


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## TraditionalTool (May 10, 2009)

carvinmark said:


> Let us know how good it works for you.


carvinmark,

I will. Waitin' for both the saw and the bar to get here...

Do you use your ms200 rear handle for carving? What type of bars do you use?

I'm anxiously awaiting my saw/bar/chain/sprockets/files...

I ordered an extra sprocket for my buddies 345, and might use my bar/chain on his saw the end of this month when I'm back in WV to work on my house.

Cheers,
TT


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## carvinmark (May 10, 2009)

I do use the 200 to carve. I have a cannon dime tip on it. It's the best saw I have ever used for this, the rear handle affords a lot of control and the power is addicting.


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## TraditionalTool (May 11, 2009)

carvinmark said:


> I do use the 200 to carve. I have a cannon dime tip on it. It's the best saw I have ever used for this, the rear handle affords a lot of control and the power is addicting.


I went with the quarter tip, as it seems more versatile. Jamie Doeren sent me an email this morning saying he would get it together this week (next couple days) for me.

I ordered a couple loops of chain, both the Oregon 25AP. He also had the full house chain, do you use that for faces and other smooth area?

I primarily need mine for cutting the dovetails, so figure the 25AP will work better for that (and per Jamie as well).

Regards,
TT


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## carvinmark (May 12, 2009)

Quarter tip will work best for what you want and it will last longer too. I have a couple of quarter tips that see plenty of use on my carvings and also when I build scribed log staircases. I use the dime tip for most detail, like eyes. The dime tips are great for plunge cuts but any smaller tip bars work better for that.


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## TraditionalTool (May 12, 2009)

carvinmark said:


> Quarter tip will work best for what you want and it will last longer too. I have a couple of quarter tips that see plenty of use on my carvings and also when I build scribed log staircases. I use the dime tip for most detail, like eyes. The dime tips are great for plunge cuts but any smaller tip bars work better for that.


carvinmark,

I have some stairs in my future. Do you scribe half logs for stairs?

Jamie Doeren also said the quarter tip will last longer due to less heat. I am curious to try the fullhouse chain he sells as well, have you used it?

Regards,
TT

EDIT: talked to Jamie Doeren today, he's shipping my order out. I added a loop of full house to my order. Jamie is a nice guy, took care of my order and I should be set after I receive it.


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## carvinmark (May 13, 2009)

I use the full house chain, works GREAT but leaves a ruff finish. I have a mill and I cut my treads from full logs and I do scribe them to fit my staircases. Jamie is right, 1/4" will run cooler and last longer.


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## B_Turner (May 13, 2009)

Hope you like your new stuff.

I recently bought a 346 and a 12 inch cannon quarter tip bar. Tried 3/8 low pro onit and the bar and tip run crazy hot immediately even before cutting any wood. tried a new loop of Stihl and a new loop of Oregon lo pro.

I am going to try running some 1/4 pitch chain on the bar tomorrow to see if that helps.

The saw is oiling fine, and a regular bar and chain (standard3/8) works fine.

I had wanted to maybe get a toonie tip 16inches to run regular 3/8 square for shaping, but until I get the heat issue figured out with the quarter tip I am on hold.

I am new to the carving bar thing, but I've read that 3/8 low pro should work with a quarter tip except maybe boring. I guess I don't really know what normal carving bar temps are. My new redmax 3200 with a dime time and 1/4 has no such issues (sugihara bar).


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## TraditionalTool (May 14, 2009)

B_Turner said:


> Hope you like your new stuff.


Won't know til I get all of it, but the saw came in today. Wasn't packed very well, but it seems to have survived just fine, got the stock 16" bar mounted on it, and will give it a go tomorrow.


B_Turner said:


> I recently bought a 346 and a 12 inch cannon quarter tip bar. Tried 3/8 low pro onit and the bar and tip run crazy hot immediately even before cutting any wood. tried a new loop of Stihl and a new loop of Oregon lo pro.


I debated getting the 346, but I went with the 336 for weight.


B_Turner said:


> I am going to try running some 1/4 pitch chain on the bar tomorrow to see if that helps.


Please let me know what you think. I bought a sprocket for a 345, as the log craftsman I'm working with has a bunch of those. I'll also try those, and compare to my 336. I've heard of others carving with the 346xp, and everyone seems to like it. I was looking at one yesterday when I was getting some 2-stroke oil, bar oil, and a no-spill fuel can.

Heading up to my property tomorrow, maybe I can find a stump or something to try it on.

This 336 is nice and light, I like it.


B_Turner said:


> I am new to the carving bar thing, but I've read that 3/8 low pro should work with a quarter tip except maybe boring.
> 
> 
> > That I don't know. I was under the impression that the bar I ordered will only take 1/4" pitch. I could be wrong. carvinmark might know.
> ...


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## carvinmark (May 14, 2009)

Mine only use the 1/4" . The bar and chain get hot if you don't run them loose, I mean really loose. You should have at least 1/2" open gap between the bar and chain. I know it sounds crazy, and I had a hard time with it at first, but you have to run them really loose.


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## B_Turner (May 14, 2009)

carvinmark said:


> Mine only use the 1/4" . The bar and chain get hot if you don't run them loose, I mean really loose. You should have at least 1/2" open gap between the bar and chain. I know it sounds crazy, and I had a hard time with it at first, but you have to run them really loose.



I was running it crazy loose, and tried various amounts of even more slack but my 12 inch cannon quarter tip wants to heat up like mad (esp at tip) even out of wood with 3/8 lo pro. I know carving bars will run a bit hot, but this seems extreme to me.

Yesterday I tried a new loop of Oregon 91vx on the cannon, which is also 3/8 lo pro. It fit a little looser in the grooves, but still heated up and the first cut into wood instantly got so hot it was bogging.

TONS of oil slinging off the bar....I ordered a loop of 1/4 pitch chain that I should get today and if the dl count is right I'll try 1/4 on the new Cannon bar and see if it runs cooler. My 3200 with a dime tip sugihara bar and 1/4 chain seems just fine. The sugihara seems less crudely made than this particular cannon to me, although admitedly my experience with carving bars is limited so far.

If the chain length will work on the 3200, I will also try the new cannon quarter tip on the 3200 and see if it cooks on that saw as well.

It's been disappointing, as one of my goals had been a 16 inch cannon with a toonie tip running 3/8 square for blocking and shaping. The semi chisel 1/4 is okay for detail, but is terribly inefficient as compared to square for coarser blocking.


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## MotorSeven (May 15, 2009)

Your going to like the quarter tip, I've got the GB & have been very pleased with it.

Hey Mark, can you post some pic's of your staircases? I plan on doing one in my house. I'm thinking a hardwood tree trunk(Hickory or Ash), de-barked, then 3-4" thick plank treads in a contrasting hardwod, morticed into the trunk. I really want to see what type of mortice/tennon you use. Trying to figure out the rise on a spiral already makes my head hurt since I am mathematiclly challenged...:help:

Sorry to hijack TT.......

RD


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## B_Turner (May 15, 2009)

Tried my new 346 with quarter Cannon bar with 1/4 chain today. Still ran hotter than I think is normal, but maybe I just don't know what normal really is. But my 3200 with a time tip and 1/4 pitch doesn't run anywhere near as hot as this Cannon quarter. I am pretty much out of ideas at this point.


On the other hand, I am really liking my new 346. Explosive power and good balance. It really likes a 16 inch bar with 3/8 square- small light saber.

It's a keeper.


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## TraditionalTool (May 15, 2009)

MotorSeven said:


> Your going to like the quarter tip, I've got the GB & have been very pleased with it.


I haven't got the bar/chain yet, but just got the saw. Think I'll fire it up tonight...after it cools down...been warm today...


MotorSeven said:


> Hey Mark, can you post some pic's of your staircases?
> ...
> Sorry to hijack TT.......


I'm not Mark, but not to worry, here's one that is attached, I've seen people use the tennon with a tusk in it for all of the stairs and it comes out looking nice. This only has the tusks on every 5th run.


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## carvinmark (May 17, 2009)

Sorry guys, I haven't been here in a few days.

B_Turner, I think you have a defective bar, it shouldn't act that way. I didn't know that you have other experience with carving bars but this cannon is not right,

I have some pics but have a heck of a time posting them. I will see if my girlfriend will help me later today.


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## MotorSeven (May 17, 2009)

TT, I was thinking a spiral like this:

http://www.logstairs.com/gallery/custom_log_stairway_lg.jpg

Check out some of their other stuff......neat!

RD


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## TraditionalTool (May 17, 2009)

MotorSeven,

If your thinking about going spiral, that will work, but doing those tenons through the natural trunk like that could be tricky.

I like this style that the post acts as the tenon, but nothing wrong with the one you posted. It looks nice also. I like that bear on there!


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## carvinmark (May 18, 2009)

Both are very nice!


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## MotorSeven (May 19, 2009)

TraditionalTool said:


> MotorSeven,
> 
> If your thinking about going spiral, that will work, but doing those tenons through the natural trunk like that could be tricky.
> 
> I like this style that the post acts as the tenon, but nothing wrong with the one you posted. It looks nice also. I like that bear on there!



......wow.........and....way outa my league!


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## TraditionalTool (May 20, 2009)

MotorSeven said:


> ......wow.........and....way outa my league!


The stairs you posted are not too much simpler, actually. Mortising the side of the tree limb present it's own set of challenges, IMO. Ok, they look like they could be simpler, but until you get into it you really can't tell. Moving and working with a large timber as in your pic presents issues also.

This would be a good topic for the homeowner forum.


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## ultimate buzz (May 20, 2009)

*hot stuff*

You say your quarter tip is running excessivly hot. Are you getting plenty of bar oil to feed through the oiler slots? Don't be afraid to modify the oil holes to get a better oil flow. Check the alignment of the oil holes. -ken


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## TraditionalTool (May 21, 2009)

ultimate buzz said:


> You say your quarter tip is running excessivly hot. Are you getting plenty of bar oil to feed through the oiler slots? Don't be afraid to modify the oil holes to get a better oil flow. Check the alignment of the oil holes. -ken


I'd be curious to know also.

My bar is not here yet, hope it's not missing in action...:-/

I was most curious to understand Bill's situation, as he does have a Cannon bar also. I don't know if that is a problem with the Cannon or not, but Mark seems to be using one with great success, and there's a lot of Cannon bars in use. Might be unique to the bar and/or chain that Bill is using.

I haven't seen Bill around, he sent me a PM which I replied to, but that was about the time of his last post here.

Bill, also what chain are you using on your Cannon bar?

I ordered both Oregon 25AP and 25F from Jamie that I wanted to try with the bar. I think it's all in transit, just sent an email to Jamie this morning to find out.

Nice to see the thread come back around to carving bars, sorry for the detour on stairs! 

Cheers,
TT


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## B_Turner (May 22, 2009)

TraditionalTool said:


> I'd be curious to know also.
> 
> My bar is not here yet, hope it's not missing in action...:-/
> 
> ...



I tried several different chains, including several new ones.

Yes to the poster a couple ago, it was slinging tons of oil off the chain. If not that would have been an easy catch. I even tried greasing the rails to see if any different. Only difference was color of junk thrown off chain.


I dressed the bar, is it was a bit crude in spots. The sugihara looks like an aircraft part in comparison.

The dressing and some more running seemed to have it running ballpark now. On some cannon bars (I have a number of bigger ones through 60") the slots come very tight and I think that was one problem. Enough grab to really heat the bar instantly which makes more grab, etc.

So now it's within what I can live with. Biggest issue I have with it is that although they call it a 12 inch bar, it only sticks out 9 inches on my 346 as opposed to 11.5 inches by the 12 inch sugihara that came on my 3200.

I tried to call Jamie (since he didn't answer my email last time and I bought the 3200 from another source) to see about choosing a longer bar, but his number wasn't working - I tried four times and it kept dropping me on the second ring.

So I ordered a 16 inch Cannon bar elsewhere that hopefully will protrude 4 more inches than the 12 incher which would be 13 and great I think. If I don't like the profile I can eventually have it modified.

(Some of this is a repeat from a carving forum this morning.)

I spent about an hour going back and forth between my 3200 and my 346 this morning. Love the 3200 but for some stuff I want a little more power andthe 346 has tons of power but gets heavy.

So I am fantasizing about an in between saw -- maybe either a g4000 or a 339NE. The339 is very ugly in pictures, but at 8.8 lbs and 2.4 hp it sounds attractive. Spending $500 on a saw without holding it first is slowing me up, as my dealer doesn't stock the tailed 200 or the 339 - says no market here.

I've heard good things about the 4000, but anyone run the 339 with a carving bar?


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## TraditionalTool (May 23, 2009)

B_Turner said:


> So now it's within what I can live with. Biggest issue I have with it is that although they call it a 12 inch bar, it only sticks out 9 inches on my 346 as opposed to 11.5 inches by the 12 inch sugihara that came on my 3200.


That's interesting, I still don't have my bar to measure yet, but ordered a 16" bar.


B_Turner said:


> I tried to call Jamie (since he didn't answer my email last time and I bought the 3200 from another source) to see about choosing a longer bar, but his number wasn't working - I tried four times and it kept dropping me on the second ring.


I was having a similar problem yesterday when trying to call. Not sure where my goodies are, they could be in transit, not sure. I'm leaving on Monday for 2 weeks, was hoping to ship them out to WV where I'll be working with some logs. Might not get to though...:-( Will wait to see what happens today or Monday.


B_Turner said:


> So I ordered a 16 inch Cannon bar elsewhere that hopefully will protrude 4 more inches than the 12 incher which would be 13 and great I think. If I don't like the profile I can eventually have it modified.


Let us know how long it is, after you get it. You might get yours before me...


B_Turner said:


> I've heard good things about the 4000, but anyone run the 339 with a carving bar?


I have a 336 I just got, very similar to the 339xp, although a tad lighter. It is very responsive, light, and seems to have enough power.

The 336 is slightly less power than the 339xp. There's a place on the web that has some NOS that I got mine at for $359, no tax and free shipping.

I will say that I was using the stock 16" bar to carve on a piece of cedar...that stuff smells so nice! 

Cheers,
TT


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## TraditionalTool (May 27, 2009)

Ok, Jamie Doeren got back to me and is back at home now, my bar/chain/sprockets/etc...are going out to me in West Virginia. I'll use them on a Husky 345 here in WV first, and will use it on my 336 after I get home in a couple weeks.

Will keep you posted when I get it and how it works. I'll check to see how hot it runs.

Cheers,
TT


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## B_Turner (May 27, 2009)

TraditionalTool said:


> Ok, Jamie Doeren got back to me and is back at home now, my bar/chain/sprockets/etc...are going out to me in West Virginia. I'll use them on a Husky 345 here in WV first, and will use it on my 336 after I get home in a couple weeks.
> 
> Will keep you posted when I get it and how it works. I'll check to see how hot it runs.
> 
> ...



I called him and talked for a while. Very helpful, and full of info.

I will buy some stuff from him once I decide what my next saw will be. Maybe a 339xpne.


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