# From free to making money??



## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 12, 2012)

I recently posted a craigslist ad for free tree removal so that I could get some firewood for the winter, that turned into more responses than I ever thought it would. Some of the work requires climbing up 15 feet an Oak tree to cut a couple dead limbs, so buying some spikes and rope is further than I will take my free work for firewood. I would like to start charging so that I can make some weekend cash. Are there any websites were I can learn about cutting trees down in the city (near power lines, etc)? All the trees I have cut down so far were in the country, so felling the tree didn't have any property risks. If there is a website with some how-to's and tree trimming basics that would help out a ton. This will help me support my family too, we have a small baby and the weekend is the only time I can get out to work. Thank you! From what I have seen so far there is a ton of info on here, so I am reading as much as I can.


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## Youngbuck20 (Dec 12, 2012)

First thing is not to use spikes to remove a couple dead limbs out of an oak.


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## husqvarnaguy (Dec 12, 2012)

Youngbuck20 said:


> First thing is not to use spikes to remove a couple dead limbs out of an oak.



Thats a good start.


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## Zale (Dec 12, 2012)

If you have a new baby and family, don't work around power lines. You are not qualified.


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## tomtrees58 (Dec 12, 2012)

so buying some spikes and rope o boy here we go


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## B Harrison (Dec 12, 2012)

Sounds fun!
Can't you just use mule tape and a ladder?


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## treemandan (Dec 12, 2012)

Mommy wow, I'm a treeman now!

This guy allready calls himself a tree service? Where is Consumer Reports?


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## Carburetorless (Dec 12, 2012)

If the limbs are only 15 feet up, you could buy a pole pruner with a saw blade on it, and do them from the ground.

Spikes....= $220 to $550 (If the tree is staying, don't spike any part of it that's staying)
Rope......= $135
Saddle....= $250 to $450
Helmet....= $120
Biners/lanyard/rope snaps/misc. = $150 to $250

You'll be out at least $870 on your first job to cover the gear to get you started, if you climb.

Pruning Pole...= $80 to $150 (no climbing and no other gear required, except maybe a pair of gloves, safety glasses, and helmet)


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## KenJax Tree (Dec 12, 2012)

Jeff?? Where are you??opcorn:


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## beastmaster (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm not biting. Though the baits good:notrolls2:


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 13, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> Jeff?? Where are you??opcorn:



Some people are so stupid, this guy doesn't deserve a response.
Jeff


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## Walt41 (Dec 13, 2012)

TO the OP, save your money, pride and liability and just buy beer...quality beer, not cheap stuff and find a good tree service in your area that is looking to unload some spoils of their hard work, trade beer for wood and nobody is going to loose out on the deal and you don't end up hurt, dead or in a lawsuit that could have you living out of a cardboard box.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 13, 2012)

*Im serious guys*

Im not completely new to working around trees, I have been felling trees for awhile. Most work has been with trees that needed cleared near pastures (hedge and locust because the thorns aren't good near horses). Yes, one person said "Hes already calling himself a tree service" well, I have been clearing trees for free for months now, when I knew I could be making money removing these trees from peoples yards and pastures here in KS. Why pass up the money if I'm already cutting the wood for my home? Thats why I asked the question everyone. I just don't have an official name yet, so I used that username. 

I have a chance to get some used spikes for $40 from a guy who recently retired from climbing. I don't know the brand, but someone else is willing to sell a complete set of rigging gear to me for $200. I thought about getting a pole saw today and see if that can tackle those limbs. I have climbed trees without spikes and rope to cut dead limbs for firewood, but I'm trying to go safe. I appreciate the positive feedback from those who gave it. I'm not giving up, my personal dream is to own a business. I'm not a kid, I'm 31 now. I'm a veteran, so I do qualify for some small business assistance most don't. Thanks everyone, haters included.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 13, 2012)

*THx*



Youngbuck20 said:


> First thing is not to use spikes to remove a couple dead limbs out of an oak.



I will get the pole saw and see if that will get the 2nd one that's higher up. Will be sure to cut and not interfere with the bark ridge or branch collar while I'm at it. Thanks again


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 13, 2012)

*I agree*



Zale said:


> If you have a new baby and family, don't work around power lines. You are not qualified.



While there aren't any power lines around the large Oak, I wont take on any jobs that involve power lines. I'm too green, so my plan is to refer those jobs to a large company that can handle them. My plan is to slowly take on jobs until I get more experience, and then when I'm certified and insured start slowly with jobs like that.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 13, 2012)

tomtrees58 said:


> so buying some spikes and rope o boy here we go



I was just trying to be safe, as a backup if the 2nd limb is too far for the pole. It's over a half hour drive, so I wanted to have everything I might need when I showed up.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 13, 2012)

*Really?*



treemandan said:


> Mommy wow, I'm a treeman now!
> 
> This guy allready calls himself a tree service? Where is Consumer Reports?



I'm not green, right now I'm clearing 2 downed trees from high winds for a soldier in Afghan, so that he can rent out the house he owns here. Even if I could charge him, I wouldn't. Thats me doing something positive for someone who is serving, and you mention consumer reports, sure, I have no worries my track record will be nothing but positive.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 13, 2012)

Jeff


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## KenJax Tree (Dec 13, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Jeff




I figured you would stop back by here


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 13, 2012)

*What am I missing?*

I thought this site, specifically this 101 forum, was for noobs like me to get help. Are the majority of you saying I should give up because its a profession that ends in failure, or because you don't know the type of person I am? I'm willing to put in the work, and learn everything I can. I want to give my daughter a better life than if I were to go flip burgers. The chance to make money I saw while doing all this free work seems to good to pass up. I have removed trees that I should have walked away from because of the amount of work involved for free. If I didn't need the firewood to help cut down on the propane bill, and if I lived closer than the 30 miles to town, I might have walked away. I can't understand why there is so much negativity. I can't get hired on at a tree company, so I thought taking some small jobs so I could start learning would be good. What am I missing guys?


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 13, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> I figured you would stop back by here



Yeah, I missed my 'Anger Management' class, thought maybe dealing with trolls would grant me a pass,,:msp_scared:
Jeff :msp_wink:


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 13, 2012)

NEKS Tree Svc said:


> I thought this site, specifically this 101 forum, was for noobs like me to get help. Are the majority of you saying I should give up because its a profession that ends in failure, or because you don't know the type of person I am? I'm willing to put in the work, and learn everything I can. I want to give my daughter a better life than if I were to go flip burgers. The chance to make money I saw while doing all this free work seems to good to pass up. I have removed trees that I should have walked away from because of the amount of work involved for free. If I didn't need the firewood to help cut down on the propane bill, and if I lived closer than the 30 miles to town, I might have walked away. I can't understand why there is so much negativity. I can't get hired on at a tree company, so I thought taking some small jobs so I could start learning would be good. What am I missing guys?



Dude, we love the newb's (noobs), we just want you to slow down and seriously think about what you are asking.
We don't want you to get hurt or worse.
This is not a 'tree climbing school',,101 is not an excuse to ask a stupid or confrontational (tree guy word) question. Well, stupid questions are ok if they dont start with, '.............
That is the nicest I can be.
Jeff


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 13, 2012)

*Right on*



jefflovstrom said:


> Dude, we love the newb's (noobs), we just want you to slow down and seriously think about what you are asking.
> We don't want you to get hurt or worse.
> This is not a 'tree climbing school',,101 is not an excuse to ask a stupid or confrontational (tree guy word) question. Well, stupid questions are ok if they dont start with, '.............
> That is the nicest I can be.
> Jeff



I appreciate the feedback, will get the pole saw first, will still get the spikes for later on cause from what i read the $40 isn't a bad price. I have looked at others, and they get pricey so the $40 wont kill me. I will take it slow, and I surely wont be cutting anything near any power lines, will call another company for those. One of these days I will have enough experience, but for now im just diving in and letting the chips fly. Thanks.


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## treemandan (Dec 13, 2012)

Besides here, where else are you fraudently advertising that you are a tree service? I mean you ain't even got a pole saw!


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 13, 2012)

*Fraudulently? I'm no criminal*



treemandan said:


> Besides here, where else are you fraudently advertising that you are a tree service? I mean you ain't even got a pole saw!



Jeff, I used NEKS Tree Svc as my username, because I haven't picked a company name yet. That won't even come for a few months, when I'm fully legal and insured. Im no fraud, and I have only lined up one employee so far. I have been cutting wood for people, removing 2 trees (a large Oak, 1 Elm) for a soldier deployed, and removed some trees from a horse pasture. This gave me about 2 cords of wood for this winter, and 3 cords of Hedge for next year. I got such a great response from people needing trees removed, I saw I could charge money for removing all the trees that are just a pain in my as* to do for free, thats why I used Tree Svc in my username. In 2-3 mths I will be fully legal and insured, but still won't be working around power lines until I'm no longer "green". Im not a criminal, I'm just someone trying to learn how to properly do some things I haven't done yet. That's all. If you think I'm a fraud, well, you don't know me, and you don't know what I've done in my life, so all I can say is judge all you want. I won't do the same to you. I can tell your being semi confrontational, because you might actually think I'm just some kid. I was born in 81, was overseas in the Navy while all my friends were at prom (went in at 17). Its not like I'm some guy who just bought a saw and is planning on charging an arm and a leg, im going to work pretty cheap until I know what I'm doing. Im just going to cover expenses and a little extra to put towards equipment. I want to learn as I go, thats how I operate.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 13, 2012)

*Someone wrote to get a job working for a tree svc before going solo on another thread*

Well, none of them are hiring, so my only choice to get the money I see waiting is to go get it. GIT-R-DONE!


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## crazyhorse (Dec 13, 2012)

Thank you sir for your service.
I wish you much success in your wood cutting.
Please remember safety first.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 13, 2012)

*Thank you*



crazyhorse said:


> Thank you sir for your service.
> I wish you much success in your wood cutting.
> Please remember safety first.



Thanks crazyhorse, I learned loading bombs and missiles to blow up camel jockeys safety first, or people died, im taking this just as serious. im not some hot head that thinks hes gonna take on any tree, any time, just tryin to make a buck. I saw this was your first post, my first post was yesterday. I have read some very informational stuff on here. I'm making this a profession. Trying not to get discouraged by the guys who are coming off a little harsh, but I guess they are just trying to see if im some idiot or not. Not too sure yet, will see.


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## Grouchy old man (Dec 13, 2012)

I think you are going to have a hard time getting insurance with no experience. If you have an employee that means workman's comp and disability too. If you do find an insurer it will probably be way more than you make. Just sayin you got more thinkin to do.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 14, 2012)

Grouchy old man said:


> I think you are going to have a hard time getting insurance with no experience. If you have an employee that means workman's comp and disability too. If you do find an insurer it will probably be way more than you make. Just sayin you got more thinkin to do.



Thx for the info Grouchy Old Man, I plan on having a steady flow or work before I get insured, for now I just plan on weekends, when the work exceeds what a full time job would pay me then i will go full time with it, from now to early spring it seems I can get some decent trimming/pruning work while the trees are dormant. I was going to sign on an independent contractor, a friend of mine, just put him on paper so he has to cover all his own stuff. He knows what I'm building, and needs some extra cash so it will work out good for him as long as he is making something. When I get insured I'm going to have $1k aside for coverage, and pay that up front if I need to. I didn't know they consider experience for the policy, so thanks for letting me know that. 

My job in the Navy equaled one mistake = big explosion and people died, so attention to detail and safety are at the forefront of anything I do. Its instilled into me if that makes any sense. Thank you for the information Grouchy.


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## newsawtooth (Dec 14, 2012)

NEKS Tree Svc said:


> My job in the Navy equaled one mistake = big explosion and people died, so attention to detail and safety are at the forefront of anything I do. Its instilled into me if that makes any sense.



That may be so...but someone trained you. And if it was anything like my experience working for the Feds, they trained you exhaustively. What I mean to say is; you don't know what you don't know and your Navy skills don't automatically translate. But it might work. Best of luck.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 14, 2012)

*Your right*



newsawtooth said:


> That may be so...but someone trained you. And if it was anything like my experience working for the Feds, they trained you exhaustively. What I mean to say is; you don't know what you don't know and your Navy skills don't automatically translate. But it might work. Best of luck.



Exhaustively sometimes 20 hrs to 72 hours before getting to leave work, your right. I will be looking up hazards, how to avoid them, what to look for, general safety, etc. right after i post this. I believe knowledge is power. Thank you newsawtooth


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## B Harrison (Dec 14, 2012)

Wow, I still stick with my first bit of advice!

Your risking your neck and your future business, think about who you are and how you have been taught. There is a right way to do this and a wrong one and if you take the wrong way the first time chances are a few years down the road you will be limited if not doomed (your business future).

If your going to hire someone they are a groundy, not a contractor. I am a contractor, I do the hiring! I also do the work but contractors get the jobs subcontractors are hired to do some of the work if need be.

I would say your real liability and workers compensation cost will be $3k plus to get started and may be based on last years income (which will be unavailable from tree work) 

The first step in a legit business is applying for a tax card or business ID, (when you name your business)

To be a real tree service you will need some small and some large equipment, pay your taxes, save your extra, buy what you can, and find a tree guy to drag brush for.

Good luck, Thank you for your time and service!!!!

I went through all that for your good, not mine, since I have been helping, hiring tree men for years and am just now starting to figure doing my part of some jobs on my own.


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## Youngbuck20 (Dec 14, 2012)

I just graduated from 2 years of college. I took urban forestry and arboriculture. Let me tell ya, I know the basics on how to get a job done properly and safely but what I have learned is their are things that you learn as you go along. Like how diff species react to certain cuts at a certain time of year. The fact that someone wants to just pick up a chainsaw and say well, it can't be that hard, a bunch of farmer hillbillies and tree huggers can do it so can I! After two years their were many guys that needed a lot more training. I wish you luck with whatever you do but man I think ya gotta slow down and realize its not just a job it's very dangerous and doesn't really pay all that well lol. Get some education, more than just reading threads here. Cheers


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## Zale (Dec 14, 2012)

Get your insurance first. You will break something. We all have.We play with sharp toys. You will cut yourself. Best of luck and be safe.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 14, 2012)

Jeff


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## Carburetorless (Dec 14, 2012)

These guys know what they're talking about NEK, and they're not telling near as much as they actually know, they're just trying to point you in the right direction and get you to give each step you take serious consideration.

Ambition is a good thing, there are a lot of things that you don't know about this sort of work. Felling trees along pasture fields, and dismantling trees around people's houses are worlds apart, both in difficulty, and in skill, time, cost, and equipment required to do it safely and efficiently, and even being able to complete the job at all.

Cutting thorn trees out of a fence line is child's play compared to safely removing say a 36" DBH Oak that's hanging over a $2000,000.00 house without destroying the house and/or the yard in the process. Even if you did; How would you remove something that big, or half that size, once it's down? The H.O. isn't going to have the patience to wait for you to cut it into firewood and haul it home a p.u. truck load at a time. 

I know stuff like this sounds knit picking and is discouraging to hear when you're eager to make money, but it's stuff you will have to deal with once you start the actual work.

Just be aware that there are things you haven't considered and they will catch you with your pants around your ankles sooner or later if you let your ambition bite off more than you can chew.

You will need other people, and LOTS of equipment to make a go in the tree business. If you could make a go of it doing the easy stuff everybody would be doing it. Tree services make their money doing what others can't do.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 14, 2012)

B Harrison said:


> Wow, I still stick with my first bit of advice!
> 
> Your risking your neck and your future business, think about who you are and how you have been taught. There is a right way to do this and a wrong one and if you take the wrong way the first time chances are a few years down the road you will be limited if not doomed (your business future).
> 
> ...



Thank you for all of the advice, as I read the replies im slowly seeing i need to save more of the money i have coming in and put it towards equipement and safety gear. I will also save up and get the insurance before I even think about bringing in another person. Thanks again, and my service was my pleasure.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 14, 2012)

*Thank you*



Youngbuck20 said:


> I just graduated from 2 years of college. I took urban forestry and arboriculture. Let me tell ya, I know the basics on how to get a job done properly and safely but what I have learned is their are things that you learn as you go along. Like how diff species react to certain cuts at a certain time of year. The fact that someone wants to just pick up a chainsaw and say well, it can't be that hard, a bunch of farmer hillbillies and tree huggers can do it so can I! After two years their were many guys that needed a lot more training. I wish you luck with whatever you do but man I think ya gotta slow down and realize its not just a job it's very dangerous and doesn't really pay all that well lol. Get some education, more than just reading threads here. Cheers



Thanks youngbuck, I am realizing i need to slow down, buy all the safety equipment, etc before I start. Im going to save what I have coming in, and get that ball rolling so that im more safe than just showing up with safety glasses. Im reading up, reading all I can on other sites, .gov and .fed for example, on more details than I knew before the post. NOw I can drive by a tree and see the limbs that are growing down, the limbs that are growing almost the size of the dominant limb that need cut etc, but I wont claim to know it all because im a noob, im just going about it the way i have life, learning the hard way, but i am realizing its more dangerous than i thought, and posting here and taking in all the info has me realziing i need to slow down more than i was before I posted. Thank you, and cheers as well!


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 14, 2012)

*Thank you*



Carburetorless said:


> These guys know what they're talking about NEK, and they're not telling near as much as they actually know, they're just trying to point you in the right direction and get you to give each step you take serious consideration.
> 
> Ambition is a good thing, there are a lot of things that you don't know about this sort of work. Felling trees along pasture fields, and dismantling trees around people's houses are worlds apart, both in difficulty, and in skill, time, cost, and equipment required to do it safely and efficiently, and even being able to complete the job at all.
> 
> ...



Thank you, and I'm realizing that i need tons more equipment, your right, can't just do it with a truck and trailer that can haul 4 cords at a time in. I am getting a used motor to build a chipper, i have a trailer and i can weld up the mounts, and etc to get the chipper done. I had a friend in Florida that built one, a neighbor, he used a 4 cylinder diesel engine and his chipper kicked some ass, so im thinking i will duplicate it. Might not be pretty, but most of the shield will be painted so it will look pretty clean. THe chipper and stump grinder are the big ticket items i gotta get. The pole saw is coming soon, i have a harness on the way and a fall arrester will be ordered in a couple weeks. The more I'm learning off site the more im seeing the need for more equipment, and more money. Its not more than I can chew though, i just wont be starting until i get all the safety gear. Can't leave my baby without a father because I was too eager. I appreciate all the advice thats been given, im taking it all in, and trying to put my best foot forward in how i got about things. I have my EIN and soon will be incorporated, but im still not moving forward just yet. Thanks again.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 14, 2012)

Zale said:


> Get your insurance first. You will break something. We all have.We play with sharp toys. You will cut yourself. Best of luck and be safe.



Im going to have insurance as soon as possible, im doing the free work removing a stump and a 15 foot trunk on the ground for someone deployed, and then I'm taking down a walnut tree for a friend in town in exchange for a near new harness, will learn a couple things, but i will have enough for insurance here soon.


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## Pelorus (Dec 14, 2012)

Damon John on "Shark Tank" tonight:
"Life is a cruel teacher. She likes to give you the test first and the lesson later."


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 15, 2012)

*No matter what....*

I'm not James the narcoleptic tree cutter , in now way am i narcoleptic, and in no way am i going to climb without a harness, rope, and fall arrestor, helmet, safety glasses, steel toe boots, am i missing something? Oh, and my clean pair of shorts in the glove box incase i shiat myself during the learning curve


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 15, 2012)

*I just want to say thanks to everyone*

Thanks guys, for being brutally honest with me. I'm not giving up, but im going to make sure i have all safety equipment before I got up a tree, fall arrestor, the works. I was just going to harness with a rope for backup, but nope, im making sure i got the fall arrestor first. No harbor freight cheap stuff either. I know some were laughing at me, but i dont care. Hate all you want. I'm gonna make a great tree guy, and have referrals as the majority of my business. Thanks to those who let me know the real deal about insurance also, i gotta keep saving more money than i am now aside for this. I'm not giving up, but im saving balls to the wall for it, or harness to the crotch cup, however you want to call it in your tree lingo.


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## ChopperDan (Dec 16, 2012)

You should remember that tree cutting can take years to master. The same goes for climbing (ddrt, drt, srt). Then how long will it take to learn the rigging (speed line, negative blocking, positive blocking)

I do recreational tree climbing.:crazy1: That means 99.9% of the time I'm in a tree my saw isn't. I would highly recommend taking a recreational tree climbing class in your area. It should be about $300 and take 2 days. You say your going to get a "fall arrestor" I have no idea what that is. I would recommend you start out with drt. This is all you need to get you up and down safely.
1. Rope
2. Saddle
3. Flip line
4. Helmet
5. Tree Climber’s Companion
You can tie a prusik in your climbing line then to your saddle. No need for anything extra when staring out.

One other thing. I would not advocate purchasing 2nd hand ppe. It's like the guy who buys a $20 motorcycle helmet we as he's got a $20 head.

It's your would Dude be safe.


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## KenJax Tree (Dec 16, 2012)

The most important tool you need in the bag is common sense it goes a long ways.


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## ChopperDan (Dec 16, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> The most important tool you need in the bag is common sense it goes a long ways.



Common sense isn't so common!


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## Dsauls81 (Dec 16, 2012)

It really sounds like you have a dollar and a dream and not much more. And there's nothing wrong with that, that's a good thing. But you're dream is not starting a snow cone business or something, you want to do tree work. You could purchase all the equipment in the world, have $1,000,000 worth of insurance, and you still wouldn't be a treeman. You cant learn arboriculture from a forum. I know people on here may disagree, but I recommend trying to get on with the "Big Orange" or equivalent. Every utility needs line clearance and they are always hiring, you travel all over and as long as the trees are growing, you got a job. Good luck.


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## KenJax Tree (Dec 16, 2012)

Dsauls81 said:


> It really sounds like you have a dollar and a dream and not much more. And there's nothing wrong with that, that's a good thing. But you're dream is not starting a snow cone business or something, you want to do tree work. You could purchase all the equipment in the world, have $1,000,000 worth of insurance, and you still wouldn't be a treeman. You cant learn arboriculture from a forum. I know people on here may disagree, but I recommend trying to get on with the "Big Orange" or equivalent. Every utility needs line clearance and they are always hiring, you travel all over and as long as the trees are growing, you got a job. Good luck.



I started dragging brush at Asplundh and became a climber there.


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## Bermie (Dec 17, 2012)

Have you got Jeff Jepson's 'Tree Climber's Companion' yet? Best $15-20 bucks you'll spend at this stage.

Fall arrestors are not used in rope access tree work, we do what's called work positioning and keep the rope tight (or nearly) at all times. Any fall should ONLY be a short drop 1' into your climbing system, or a pendulum swing...anything more and you are not doing it right...and you might not ever again!

One tip: TITS! Tie In Twice Stupid...so when making a cut ALWAYS (at this stage of your learning curve) have two tie in points. 

When climbing, ALWAYS put weight in a newly attached system BEFORE undoing the first one...used when bypassing branches and such.

Know when to know that you don't know enough...and go and learn some more.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 17, 2012)

NEKS Tree Svc said:


> Im not completely new to working around trees, I have been felling trees for awhile. Most work has been with trees that needed cleared near pastures (hedge and locust because the thorns aren't good near horses). Yes, one person said "Hes already calling himself a tree service" well, I have been clearing trees for free for months now, when I knew I could be making money removing these trees from peoples yards and pastures here in KS. Why pass up the money if I'm already cutting the wood for my home? Thats why I asked the question everyone. I just don't have an official name yet, so I used that username.
> 
> I have a chance to get some used spikes for $40 from a guy who recently retired from climbing. I don't know the brand, but someone else is willing to sell a complete set of rigging gear to me for $200. I thought about getting a pole saw today and see if that can tackle those limbs. I have climbed trees without spikes and rope to cut dead limbs for firewood, but I'm trying to go safe. I appreciate the positive feedback from those who gave it. I'm not giving up, my personal dream is to own a business. I'm not a kid, I'm 31 now. I'm a veteran, so I do qualify for some small business assistance most don't. Thanks everyone, haters included.


Well as a veteran of tree work I can tell you that your better off hiring a contract climber for a couple years to learn from. If your a knot head that thinks anyone can do this work then we likely will be putting you in the fatalities section soon! Remember spurring a trim is malpractice and can make your family suffer through a lawsuit and leaving your family by your untimely demise is worse.


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## SquirrelMan (Dec 21, 2012)

ropensaddle said:


> " Remember spurring a trim is malpractice and can make your family suffer through a lawsuit and leaving your family by your untimely demise is worse.





I completely agree it is malpractice but have never heard of a homeowner taking a contractor to litigation over it.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 21, 2012)

ChopperDan said:


> You should remember that tree cutting can take years to master. The same goes for climbing (ddrt, drt, srt). Then how long will it take to learn the rigging (speed line, negative blocking, positive blocking)
> 
> I do recreational tree climbing.:crazy1: That means 99.9% of the time I'm in a tree my saw isn't. I would highly recommend taking a recreational tree climbing class in your area. It should be about $300 and take 2 days. You say your going to get a "fall arrestor" I have no idea what that is. I would recommend you start out with drt. This is all you need to get you up and down safely.
> 1. Rope
> ...



Thanks, im going to take a class, i have given up on the spikes idea for now, just going to climb full time no spikes. Getting the tree climbing companion here in the next couple weeks. I"m not getting anything 2nd hand, just a harness from a close friend who only used it once. I know its almost new, and hasn't been up a tree for more than a couple hours. THanks!


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 21, 2012)

*not using spikes*



SquirrelMan said:


> I completely agree it is malpractice but have never heard of a homeowner taking a contractor to litigation over it.



Im not using spikes for anything, i have since given up on that idea. I'm not going to harm any trees in the money making proces. Im learning all i can spending 12 hrs a day reading and learning. Thanks


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 21, 2012)

*Will be hiring a contract climber*



ropensaddle said:


> Well as a veteran of tree work I can tell you that your better off hiring a contract climber for a couple years to learn from. If your a knot head that thinks anyone can do this work then we likely will be putting you in the fatalities section soon! Remember spurring a trim is malpractice and can make your family suffer through a lawsuit and leaving your family by your untimely demise is worse.



as soon as i can afford one, im doing this with very little in my pocket, so im basically competing with everyone around here with not even half the equipment they have. It may take me longer to get going, but I'm gonna do this. Im ordering all new ropes, helmet, face shield, and other PPE, just dont have the cash to hire a climber right now but when i can I'm going to. That way i can pay him to teach me tons, but i just have to take things slow for now. No fatality here yet, im making sure any potential fall is stopped with an arrestor before i go up. THanks for your reply


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 21, 2012)

Bermie said:


> Have you got Jeff Jepson's 'Tree Climber's Companion' yet? Best $15-20 bucks you'll spend at this stage.
> 
> Fall arrestors are not used in rope access tree work, we do what's called work positioning and keep the rope tight (or nearly) at all times. Any fall should ONLY be a short drop 1' into your climbing system, or a pendulum swing...anything more and you are not doing it right...and you might not ever again!
> 
> ...



Ordering the Tree Climbers Companion here very soon, and will remember to tie of and be fully in the secondary system before i undo the first one. I dont know hardly anything, so thank you for your reply. Im learning everyday to help get this going, each day opens a new door to knowledge i have no idea of so im slowing down even further to have a better understanding. Thank you!


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## treemandan (Dec 21, 2012)

NEKS Tree Svc said:


> Im not using spikes for anything, i have since given up on that idea. I'm not going to harm any trees in the money making proces. Im learning all i can spending 12 hrs a day reading and learning. Thanks



I feel better hearing you say that because it sounded like what your where saying is that all you needed was more equipment. Sure, i can go out and buy a bunch of guns but I am no soldier. What good would I be if I didn't know what I was doing? You'd be pissed at me if I tried.


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## Bermie (Dec 23, 2012)

NEKS, check in again after Christmas...let us know how you are getting along, especially when you've read Climber's Companion.

Good for you for being able to sit back and take an honest look at your proposal, and be willing to acknowledge you didn't know enough and are willing to slow down a heap!

Merry Christmas!


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## ropensaddle (Dec 24, 2012)

NEKS Tree Svc said:


> as soon as i can afford one, im doing this with very little in my pocket, so im basically competing with everyone around here with not even half the equipment they have. It may take me longer to get going, but I'm gonna do this. Im ordering all new ropes, helmet, face shield, and other PPE, just dont have the cash to hire a climber right now but when i can I'm going to. That way i can pay him to teach me tons, but i just have to take things slow for now. No fatality here yet, im making sure any potential fall is stopped with an arrestor before i go up. THanks for your reply



Tree bot is from your area have not seen him on in a while but really bro hiring a contract climber per assignment may actually save you money but remember this work should not be done cheap. Many times new start ups get the idea they can cut prices to win work which is not a good game plan. If you start too cheap it will be expected by every tom #### and harry out there. get the tree climbers companion and the building blocks of arboriculture read read read then when you have a knowledge of the role apical dominance plays in proper pruning then branch bark protection zone, node , inter-node, crown cleaning,structure pruning,topiary and many other things a tree service should know then you can find it easier to get the price you want! the other books can come later but those will at least show you what your in for


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## Guido Salvage (Dec 24, 2012)

If I recall, your initial goal was to do tree work "so that I could get some firewood for the winter". If you are looking for firewood there should be no need to do any type of tree work at all. As many have told you, it takes time, money and tons of experience in order to become proficient at this line of work. One mistake at this game and your life can literally be ruined or over, that is quite some burden to hang on your family to make a little extra money on the weekend.

If you need firewood, advertise for that and avoid taking any trees down to get it. There are plenty of tree services looking for spots to drop off wood, develop a relationship with them and have it delivered to your driveway. If money is still a driving factor, try selloing some of the wood you get on the side.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Nov 28, 2019)

So many years later. Thank you all for the advice. I'm proud to be a professional, insured, and BBB accredited tree service.


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## trains (Nov 30, 2019)

So now with some time under your belt, what would be your advice to your young self a few pages back ?

And thanks for the follow up.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 1, 2019)

trains said:


> So now with some time under your belt, what would be your advice to your young self a few pages back ?
> 
> And thanks for the follow up.


I would tell myself to do exactly what I did, but advertise and hire the 2nd ground person sooner. 

I started with fallen trees, and widow makers. I began pruning and spikeless climbing fruit trees. Now I can take down any tree. I have done crane work, I have a forestry bucket now for road and easy access trees.


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## mbrick (Dec 9, 2019)

Wow, really nice to see the update to your posts from 7 years ago.

Can you explain a bit more about the journey you took to where you are today?


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 10, 2019)

mbrick said:


> Wow, really nice to see the update to your posts from 7 years ago.
> 
> Can you explain a bit more about the journey you took to where you are today?


I started small, after falling trees in the timber for firewood. I couldn't find anyone to teach me to climb, so I taught myself. I studied videos. I didnt really watch the video for the title. I watched how people got from limb to limb, how they moved around etc. 

The tallest, safest, anchor is something I wish someone told me sooner.


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## Bobby Lite (Dec 11, 2019)

Wow NEKS! Just read this thread and what an inspirational story. Congratulations on your success, and I admire your determination. 

I consider myself in a similar situation that you were at one point currently, however I have no aspirations of starting a tree business. I have another full time job that is completely unrelated to trees, however I am a fairly serious woodworker on the side and took the plunge on tree climbing as a possible means to acquire more wood to work on (being able to offer someone the ability to prune etc. in exchange for the wood), and a semi-obsessive drive to maintain my property and everything on it myself. Furthermore, I try to ensure all "hobbies" (activities that are not my full time job) which require expensive equipment at some point pay for themselves, and hopefully at some point generate a little extra cash.

Long story short, as it did with woodworking, shortly after friends, co-workers and family found out about me working on my own trees, I gradually started to get requests. While fulfilling some of those requests, neighbors/friends of the people I've done work for have inquired about potentially getting me to do some work for them and the question that comes up constantly is whether I'm insured (for tree work). Obviously, I'm not and I haven't even looked into it because I don't have a company and have only done work for favors and/or other things. 

Let me be clear about a few things: I don't plan on making this into a long term business, I don't plan on advertising (don't want to undercut, no pun intended, professional arborists in the area), and I would never take on a request that I didn't think I could do, or was potentially dangerous to myself or anyone's property. I would however like to help folks out that are in my immediate circle (and perhaps just outside) that may feel a little squirrely about hiring someone they don't know for a job that probably should be done that may not really need to be done. My assumption, perhaps naively, was that people would overlook the standard business practices (insurance being one of them) in exchange for a much lower price that comes with the lack of overhead. 

With that being said, I'm curious how you (early on) and others dealt with (or deal with) doing work uninsured on other people's property. Obviously this hasn't been a huge issue for me doing work for only folks I know fairly well, but I've been getting a lot of interest from neighbors recently and am not sure how to deal with it, other than doing it for free. My general rule of thumb is to do things for free or a massively discounted price for people in my immediate social circle, and then charging something more realistic to referrals or people who ask. That's one thing with turning a bowl or building a cabinet, but I don't have to tell anyone here that tree work is a bit more dangerous and physically difficult to do.


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## MrTreeGuy (Jan 10, 2020)

So was it as hard as people made it out to be? 

I mean, we all have it ingrained in us to cut trees. I suspect it cant be that hard.


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## chipper1 (Jan 10, 2020)

NEKS Tree Svc said:


> I started small, after falling trees in the timber for firewood. I couldn't find anyone to teach me to climb, so I taught myself. I studied videos. I didnt really watch the video for the title. I watched how people got from limb to limb, how they moved around etc.
> 
> The tallest, safest, anchor is something I wish someone told me sooner.


Congrats for getting where you are even with all the critics, I've felt with it all my life. Not sure why more people don't just say "you can do whatever you set your mind to, but there is a cost for everything we do", that's how I look at things. I teach my kids there's nothing you can't do only things you don't know how to do yet!
Not sure what it is, but no-one wanted to teach me to climb either, so just as you I had to figure it out on my own. I'd still like to have someone with more experience to climb with and help me advance quicker(double meaning there and both would work. I went right to buying everything for SRT since all the old school guys on the Buzz were even switching over, but I can use ddrt with a self advancing Blakes if needed or for work positioning. 
Since I primarily work by myself I do what I can to stay on the ground, even so the ability to set a line high in a tree is a crucial one, the big shot does a great job for that.


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## EchoRomeoCharlie (Jan 10, 2020)

I was in sort of the same situation.

I wanted to climb, but pretty much everybody told me it wasn't possible to do.

I don't want to make a career out of it, I have a great career that I really enjoy for a day job, but I've been working trees on weekends since I was 8, running a saw at 10ish, falling at 16. The next step was climbing. Tried to get information online and it was either people with no experience saying I was nuts or people with experience telling me I couldn't do it.

I read books, watched videos, bought a rope and climbed low and slow in my back yard with a bowline on a bight and a blakes hitch. Then I bought a saddle and a carabiner and climbed using both an anchor knot or clove hitch and a blakes hitch, then a self tending blakes, then a VT with a micro pulley, then a hitch climber pulley, etc etc etc. I've climbed on every single friction hitch I could find online at this point. I spent weeks never getting above about 10 feet off the ground. Spending afternoons setting lines in my silver maple in the back yard. Throwing throw bags, getting them stuck, realizing I need a second throw line, climbing up to get the first one...getting my climbing line stuck and figuring out my own way to get it back. Making mistakes when it didn't matter. 

Then I bought rigging gear...

I still practice on the weekends because I don't climb every single day so I need to practice to stay proficient. It's something I enjoy though, so it's fun for me.


So, it can absolutely be done and be done safely. I take my time when I'm doing removals. It's still dangerous, there's no getting around that. However, I make sure I'm comfortable with what I'm doing, plan out my moves, and make sure I'm going home to my kids that night. All while having a blast up there in the canopy.


Glad you stuck with it and made it work!


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## desertsaw (Jan 10, 2020)

Cool....all those years went by....you achieved your dream....all the critics??? where are they???....It doesn't even matter....Moral = follow your dream....make it happen...Ignore the shade throwers....I admire you man!....


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## Mjosoba (Jan 12, 2020)

G


NEKS Tree Svc said:


> So many years later. Thank you all for the advice. I'm proud to be a professional, insured, and BBB accredited tree service.


Glad to hear this. I’m down in Wichita, and have been working with my buddy for about a year. I love the work, told my wife it’s the first time I’ve enjoyed my job. But I’m 35 and have enough experience in other industries that it just isn’t going to work out. I went from foreman to low man while I’ve been learning. I can run jobs myself now, but I just can’t turn my back on the easy money that my experience brings in other areas. I can get a job without being picky for around $50k, but here I’m making less than $25k. Wish I’d started younger in this field.


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## TreeDoctorsoftheWorld (Feb 4, 2020)

couldn't agree more!


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## dgr (Feb 5, 2020)

Haha. Great read. Promise you won't turn into one of the salty twats on here.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Sep 30, 2022)

NEKS Tree Svc said:


> I started small, after falling trees in the timber for firewood. I couldn't find anyone to teach me to climb, so I taught myself. I studied videos. I didnt really watch the video for the title. I watched how people got from limb to limb, how they moved around etc.
> 
> The tallest, safest, anchor is something I wish someone told me sooner.


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## mbrick (Sep 30, 2022)

Looking good from here!


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## scut207 (Sep 30, 2022)

Good read! Well done!


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