# MS180 Adjustable Carb



## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

Is there an adjustable carb that could be used on a MS180? I'd like to go a little deeper into my 180 but am hesitant too because of the fixed jet carb that's on it.


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

On a hunch, I just went out and compared the original carb off my MS180 and a MS260 carb. The carbs are so similar it isn't funny, even though the 180 carb is a Zama and the 260 carb a Walbro. 

The impulse comes through the carb body on the Zama, goes into a large chamber, and then passes through a small hole into a smaller chamber. The Walbro takes are through the impulse line directly into the smaller chamber. However, the provisions are there for the passage through the carb body on the 260 Walbro carb. All I would have to do is finish drilling the holes and plug the original impulse fitting.

The 260 has no choke in the carb. Once again, the body looks to be identical such that a machinist could drill the hole for the choke shaft. I might have to make a new butterfly plate, but the venturis may actually be the same size at that point.

Where's all this headed? How about a woods ported, rather a *Snellerized *MS180 . No, I can't adjust the squish, but I can sure massage the port widths which is where most of the gains come from anyway. I think I'm going to give this a whirl. 

Whatcha think?


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## Tzed250 (Aug 27, 2008)

Make it happen!!!!!!


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

I don't have any other carbs here to compare so I started looking at eBay pics. 021, 023, 025 carbs look like they might be a direct swap. 

290, 310, 390 carbs looks similiar as well. Looks like all they might require is reversing the choke rod.


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

I just bought a Walbro WT-215. It looks identical to the original MS180 carb except that it has both H and L screws. I'll have to swap the filter compensating cover and bolt it up. I'll make sure it's running good with the new carb before proceeding any further. LINK


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## 04ultra (Aug 27, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> I just bought a Walbro WT-215. It looks identical to the original MS180 carb except that it has both H and L screws. I'll have to swap the filter compensating cover and bolt it up. I'll make sure it's running good with the new carb before proceeding any further. LINK





Your finally catching on ..................


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## teacherman (Aug 27, 2008)

04ultra said:


> Your finally catching on ..................



Yes, a true "fiend," in the finest tradition of enthusiasts....... :greenchainsaw: 

So most porting is done simply by widening the ports on the cylinder? How about the intake with its cylindrical manifold fitting?

Brad, do you have any before and after pics of your ported 460?


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

04ultra said:


> Your finally catching on ..................


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## 04ultra (Aug 27, 2008)

blsnelling said:


>







Brad you need to do the leg work just like the rest .....It gets easier as time goes on........


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

teacherman said:


> So most porting is done simply by widening the ports on the cylinder? How about the intake with its cylindrical manifold fitting?


That's the biggest part. I have never modded the rubber intake. On a true race saw, you will sometimes find a custom aluminum intake manifold.



> Brad, do you have any before and after pics of your ported 460?


Sure do. They're all right here. LINK


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

04ultra said:


> Brad you need to do the leg work just like the rest .....It gets easier as time goes on........



So you've been holding out on me have you? You know you're one of my first enablers here, sending me a lot of IPLs in the early days. Now here I am talking about porting a clam shell engine.


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## 04ultra (Aug 27, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> So you've been holding out on me have you? You know you're one of my first enablers here, sending me a lot of IPLs in the early days.





*
So Its all my fault*.....................*NOT*.....................



Take a good look at the M.S.........................................2..................................0.............................0.........................................................T


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

So now you're telling me I bought the wrong carb?


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## 04ultra (Aug 27, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> So now you're telling me I bought the wrong carb?






Im just telling you to look at a few options........What does the 2..............0........................0...........................T carb have on it????


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## 04ultra (Aug 27, 2008)

026 carb has no choke..........


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

04ultra said:


> 026 carb has no choke..........



That's why I bought one for a 021, 023, 025.


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## 04ultra (Aug 27, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> That's why I bought one for a 021, 023, 025.





Brad there are plenty of options out there......Some take a tiny bit of rework.......


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

04ultra said:


> Brad there are plenty of options out there......Some take a tiny bit of rework.......



I never minded that. That's half the fun.


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## walexa07 (Aug 27, 2008)

Check this guy out if you need another carb........he has a list and I got one delivered for $20 for my 026. It was a wt-426a.

Waylan


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

walexa07 said:


> Check this guy out if you need another carb........he has a list and I got one delivered for $20 for my 026. It was a wt-426a.
> 
> Waylan



Which guy?


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## Trigger-Time (Aug 27, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> Which guy?




You know.........that guy with the carb's


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

Trigger-Time said:


> You know.........that guy with the carb's



LOL


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## 04ultra (Aug 27, 2008)

Trigger-Time said:


> You know.........that guy with the carb's






Careful some Ebay carbs are seconds.................


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## 04ultra (Aug 27, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> Which guy?






That guy...........


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

Trigger-Time said:


> You know.........that guy with the carb's



I just went and took a peak under the hood of my 200T. It would require swapping choke shafts, top cover, and rotating the fuel inlet 90*. Can you rotate the brass fuel fittings?


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## walexa07 (Aug 27, 2008)

Sorry about that........I copied the link to the ebay listing I won and forgot to paste it. Here it is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130248017711&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=003

And yes, you can rotate the brass fittings........on the 426A I got off ebay the impulse line fitting wasn't inline and I rotate it 10 degrees or so with no problems. I believe those fittings are just pressed in (at least on my particular carb).

Waylan


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## icelation8 (Aug 27, 2008)

order up a bigger main jet it comes with a .45 order a .48 should be like a 1132 121 5600 i think would work. Or a 1123 121 5630 is .48 that should work to


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2008)

icelation8 said:


> order up a bigger main jet it comes with a .45 order a .48 should be like a 1132 121 5600 i think would work. Or a 1123 121 5630 is .48 that should work to



I can confirm that it is a .45 that's in it.


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## ironman_gq (Sep 2, 2008)

would a walbro wt385 from an 017 work. is this carb adjustable?


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## andrethegiant70 (Sep 2, 2008)

I'm still wondering why everyone pooped on Brad's first choice, the wt215. Its fully adustable and works great on my 2 muffler modded 025s. Maybe I missed something.


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2008)

andrethegiant70 said:


> I'm still wondering why everyone pooped on Brad's first choice, the wt215. Its fully adustable and works great on my 2 muffler modded 025s. Maybe I missed something.



That's OK. I can poop right back if it works right . If not, I'll just pick up my self esteme and move on Besides, the 200T won't work without a few mods eight. Just going on pictures from eBay, the 025 carb looks like nearly a direct swap. I think all I'll have to do is swap the filter compensation covers.


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## 04ultra (Sep 2, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> That's OK. I can poop right back if it works right . If not, I'll just pick up my self esteme and move on Besides, the 200T won't work without a few mods eight. Just going on pictures from eBay, the 025 carb looks like nearly a direct swap. I think all I'll have to do is swap the filter compensation covers.





200T has accelerator pump.....


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2008)

04ultra said:


> 200T has accelerator pump.....



I thought about that. Is that the main reason it has the throttle response it does?


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## Trigger-Time (Sep 2, 2008)

04ultra said:


> 200T has accelerator pump.....




Im side tracking here some :greenchainsaw: 

200T and 361 have accelerator pump.......any other Stihl's have a pump?


Gary


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2008)

I didn't know the 361 had one.


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## MuleyJ (Sep 2, 2008)

*021-025 carb on my ms170*



blsnelling said:


> Is there an adjustable carb that could be used on a MS180? I'd like to go a little deeper into my 180 but am hesitant too because of the fixed jet carb that's on it.



I bought a used fully adjustable off of a 023. I had to plug the hole in the air-box for the intellicarb top cover, finish drilling the impulse port(halfway tooled already) plug the old one, and straighten the carb side throttle linkage a tiny bit. Other than that you do have to drill a couple holes in the plastic to adjust but overall pretty easy. I had to do this to get the saw to run well with a 5000' elevation difference, but the carb bolts straight on. I can't remember the numbers off the carb off hand, but if you would like I could get them for you.


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## MuleyJ (Sep 2, 2008)

*I tried this on mine*



blsnelling said:


> I just bought a Walbro WT-215. It looks identical to the original MS180 carb except that it has both H and L screws. I'll have to swap the filter compensating cover and bolt it up. I'll make sure it's running good with the new carb before proceeding any further. LINK



I did try this on mine. The bolt pattern was slightly different(I mean very slightly.) I think you could drill out the holes a little on the comp. cover and get it to fit right. The problem I had was that the new carb with the comp cover on bound somewhere just a tiny bit and caused an air leak between the carb body and boot. I'm sure you could iron this out if you thought you really needed the comp cover but I just plugged the hole in the airbox. My 170 is muff modded by the way and runs spectacularly well after this carb mod.


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## MuleyJ (Sep 2, 2008)

*Oh yea!*

One thing I forgot to mention was that the air-box has a molded pocket for the idle screw to fit in. The idle screw in the other carb was bigger so I had to drill out some plastic to pocket the other carbs idle screw and still get the air-box flush with the carb. Sorry to ruin part of the project but I posted the first two responses before I read the whole thread!


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2008)

MuleyJ said:


> I bought a used fully adjustable off of a 023. I had to plug the hole in the air-box for the intellicarb top cover, finish drilling the impulse port(halfway tooled already) plug the old one, and straighten the carb side throttle linkage a tiny bit. Other than that you do have to drill a couple holes in the plastic to adjust but overall pretty easy. I had to do this to get the saw to run well with a 5000' elevation difference, but the carb bolts straight on. I can't remember the numbers off the carb off hand, but if you would like I could get them for you.



My 180 uses the intelicarb cover. I saw the partially tooled impulse passages on my 260 carb. Should be easy. I already drilled the hole for the idle screw since the carb that's on it is not original


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2008)

MuleyJ said:


> I did try this on mine. The bolt pattern was slightly different(I mean very slightly.) I think you could drill out the holes a little on the comp. cover and get it to fit right. The problem I had was that the new carb with the comp cover on bound somewhere just a tiny bit and caused an air leak between the carb body and boot. I'm sure you could iron this out if you thought you really needed the comp cover but I just plugged the hole in the airbox. My 170 is muff modded by the way and runs spectacularly well after this carb mod.



This WT-215 was advertised as the carb for a 012, 023, 025. If you used a 023 carb it seems the bolt pattern would be the same. Even the bolt pattern on my 260 carb was the same.


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## MuleyJ (Sep 2, 2008)

*My 170 did too!*



blsnelling said:


> My 180 uses the intelicarb cover. I saw the partially tooled impulse passages on my 260 carb. Should be easy. I already drilled the hole for the idle screw since the carb that's on it is not original



My 170 did too but I think the body on the 021-025 carb must be slightly taller and when you put the thicker intelli cover on it, the cover contacts the plastic intake housing on the upper starter side I think, but it should be fairly easy to take care of that If you have to, hopefully yours will fit better than mine did.


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2008)

MuleyJ said:


> My 170 did too but I think the body on the 021-025 carb must be slightly taller and when you put the thicker intelli cover on it, the cover contacts the plastic intake housing on the upper starter side I think, but it should be fairly easy to take care of that If you have to, hopefully yours will fit better than mine did.



Ahh. Gotcha. Just have to make sure everything's sealed up.


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## MuleyJ (Sep 2, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> This WT-215 was advertised as the carb for a 012, 023, 025. If you used a 023 carb it seems the bolt pattern would be the same. Even the bolt pattern on my 260 carb was the same.



It was very very close but when I tried to put the cover on the screws were ever so slightly off perpendicular. I was still able to get the cover on (3 of 4 screws anyhow) and had I been able to leave it I probably would have drilled the holes out 1 size bigger for a better fit, but I could have had one too many Cokes that night (long one with a lot of troubleshooting) and not been paying as close attention as I thought was. Let me know maybe I will put it back on if you get yours to work well.


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2008)

Thanks for the tips Muley.


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## pgg (Sep 3, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> I thought about that. Is that the main reason it has the throttle response it does?



the accel pump is just excess baggage to make a lean carb run better, even the non-accel carb 200T's accelerate and rev like an F1 ferrari, as for non-adjustable carb, my 200T's running a single-jet type, but get the mix right and the motor still goes off like a rocket


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 3, 2008)

yep.. just for the EPA, and now EU...


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## blsnelling (Sep 3, 2008)

I had my wife bring the WT215 and the original carb up to my room this morning . The bolt pattern is slightly different on the end cover. I was able to screw on the filter compensating cover onto the WT215 but not vise versa. No biggie, the one that need to fit did. It appears the WT215 was getting the impulse through a hole off the to side of center. There was a brass plug inthe center hole. I removed the plug and will JBWeld the other hole. I tried swapping the throttle shafts but the diameters are different. I put them back where they came from. The 180 carb had a slot for the linkage and the WT215 has a hole. It looks like the hole is in the right location though. So, it should be ready to bolt up as soon as I block the extra impulse hole. Sure wish I was home to try it. Yes I did all this on my over-the-bed table using a pocket knife I didn't think to have her bring me a Philips screw driver. I broke the blade on my handy little Case. You gotta do what you gotta do though. Man, am I every ready to get out of here!


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## teacherman (Sep 3, 2008)

How ya feeling, Brad? I'm interested to see the video of this soon to be super hotrodded 180!


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## KMB (Sep 3, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> I had my wife bring the WT215 and the original carb up to my room this morning . The bolt pattern is slightly different on the end cover. I was able to screw on the filter compensating cover onto the WT215 but not vise versa. No biggie, the one that need to fit did. It appears the WT215 was getting the impulse through a hole off the to side of center. There was a brass plug inthe center hole. I removed the plug and will JBWeld the other hole. I tried swapping the throttle shafts but the diameters are different. I put them back where they came from. The 180 carb had a slot for the linkage and the WT215 has a hole. It looks like the hole is in the right location though. So, it should be ready to bolt up as soon as I block the extra impulse hole. Sure wish I was home to try it. Yes I did all this on my over-the-bed table using a pocket knife I didn't think to have her bring me a Philips screw driver. I broke the blade on my handy little Case. You gotta do what you gotta do though. Man, am I every ready to get out of here!



Working on saw stuff in a hospital bed...Brad, you da man!  

Still praying for you bud!

Kevin


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## blsnelling (Sep 3, 2008)

KMB said:


> Working on saw stuff in a hospital bed...Brad, you da man!
> 
> Kevin



That's got to take the cake doesn't it. Pathetic case of CAD if I ever saw one! Think I could get her to take the bar off and bring the power head up so that I can install it? Naah, I'm kidding


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## 7sleeper (Sep 3, 2008)

To all AS Community! Here we see a fellow AS member stroke down by the adverse affects of CAD! Please lets us all remorse for a moment and wish god speed and get well soon after you remodeld the 180! 


I couldn't resist bsnelling. 

Get well soon & you are a lucky man my love would have kicked me if I was sick and asked here to bring my chainsaw into bed. 

7sleeper


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## lectrocrew (Sep 3, 2008)

Wow Brad, It's real good to hear your feeling well enough to make a saw shop out of a hospital room. LOL 
I'll be following this thread because I'm interested in putting an adjustable carb on my 018c, which I assume is similar to your ms180. My saw has an occasional problem causing it to run lean, but I havent had any time to dig in and see whats wrong. It acts like a possible fuel line sucking air, but I still wan't an adjustable carb anyway.
Hope you get out of the hospital soon!


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## kevin j (Sep 3, 2008)

not sure if you have access to a dishwasher there, but do what you need to do!
sneaking it through the autoclave would be hell on plastics.


k


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## blsnelling (Sep 4, 2008)

I'm home!!! And the WT215 carb's on the MS180. It installed with little fuss and tuned up easily. I had to fiddle with the throttle linkage a little to get full travel. I also had to make access to the H needle. I had already drill for the other screws when I put the previous carb on it. I now know that these saws are way lean from the factory. It's properly tuned at 14,000 where as before it was turning something like 14,500. I just bought another one of these and it turns 14,000 bone stock. Just like anything else, they can all be a little different. Bottom line, the Walbroo WT215 works fine on the MS180.


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## lectrocrew (Sep 4, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> Bottom line, the Walbroo WT215 works fine on the MS180.



So I should get the same for 018c? There's a "WALBRO CARBURETOR WT-215 FOR STIHL / POULAN" on ebay. Will this work?


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## blsnelling (Sep 4, 2008)

That's the one. If you have any issues, let me know.


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## lectrocrew (Sep 5, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> That's the one. If you have any issues, let me know.


Okay Thanks!!!
I bought it last night so hopefully it will be here sometime next week. I won't pull the other carb off until it gets here. As long as the hurricanes keep coming at us, I need as many saws running around here as possible.


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## Trigger-Time (Sep 9, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> I'm home!!! And the WT215 carb's on the MS180. It installed with little fuss and tuned up easily. I had to fiddle with the throttle linkage a little to get full travel. I also had to make access to the H needle. I had already drill for the other screws when I put the previous carb on it. I now know that these saws are way lean from the factory. It's properly tuned at 14,000 where as before it was turning something like 14,500. I just bought another one of these and it turns 14,000 bone stock. Just like anything else, they can all be a little different. Bottom line, the Walbroo WT215 works fine on the MS180.




Brad,

Have you cut any wood with it yet?


Gary


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## blsnelling (Sep 9, 2008)

Trigger-Time said:


> Brad,
> 
> Have you cut any wood with it yet?
> 
> ...



Nope I did get permission from the doc today to start ramping up my activites within reason.


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## John Deere (Sep 9, 2008)

I put mine together last night & cut some with it before work.Seamed to cut verey good.I'll do a mufler mod tonight or tomarow then check it


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## Trigger-Time (Sep 9, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> Nope I did get permission from the doc today to start ramping up my activites within reason.




    ..........is running a SAW within reason?...even if it's a 180!







John Deere said:


> I put mine together last night & cut some with it before work.Seamed to cut verey good.I'll do a mufler mod tonight or tomarow then check it



Will be waiting for the report 





Gary


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## blsnelling (Sep 9, 2008)

I finally had a chance to run mine tonight. It's running great and it's nice to have control over WOT tuning. One little tuning issue. I had to richen up the low side to get good throttle response until I can barely get the idle speed high enough to idle. When the low needle is set at a point where the idle speed is easily adjustable, it's too lean and bogs when opening the throttle. I finally got it at a point where it's accelerating well but barely idling fast enough. Any ideas how to correct this slight "characteristic"?


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## PES+ (Sep 9, 2008)

*Yup*

Take off the intellicarb chamber cover and go back to the cover that came with the carb.

You will need to block the hole in the air filter or change out the filter with a non intellicarb port.


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## blsnelling (Sep 9, 2008)

You saying that will affect the low speed mixture and idle speed? Can you explain in a little more detail for my understanding?


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 10, 2008)

The intellicarb port has not effect if not into the filter. Take off the filter if you think there is an issue with that end.

I'm betting your venturi is too big for the idle air volume, and your transition bores are not matched to the 180.


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## pgg (Sep 10, 2008)

tweak the fuel tang and see what happens


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## blsnelling (Sep 10, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> I'm betting your venturi is too big for the idle air volume, and your transition bores are not matched to the 180.



It appeared to be the same size as the previous carb. Maybe I'll take it off and measure it, because that did cross my mind.


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## lectrocrew (Sep 10, 2008)

I got my WT-215 carb installed this morning and it fit fine except I had to tweek the throttle linkage a little to get full WOT just like you did Brad. Since the 018c has no intellicarb everything fit like it was factory. I haven't cranked it yet. I will take the saw to work with me tonight to drill the screwdriver passages for the adjustment screws. I'll probably crank it in the morning and cut some wood along with setting the adjustments. I'll post the results afterward.


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## blsnelling (Sep 10, 2008)

I think I'll try removing the Intellicarb cover. It enters the air box on the dirty side of the filter, so I don't even have to worry about plugging the hole.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 10, 2008)

Are you sure? If it's on the dirty side, it has no effect... that's atmospheric pressure.


Wabro's web site will show you the venturi size of the 215. Not sure if zama does.. and it has litle meaning to compare them as a carb is balance of jet size/venturi. Look up the WT325 and compare it to the 215 - the 325 was originally on the 170 - it might give you a few clues if there's any difference.

I've swapped a lot of "similar" small carbs around mainly to get oddall saws/blowers working again, and never really had much problem at the top end -either just tune it or change a jet. Most probloms are as your describe - low idle/accel, and that's a pita to fix - usually I just gave up and dug deeper in the junk draw for the "righ" carb.


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## Trigger-Time (Sep 10, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Are you sure? If it's on the dirty side, it has no effect...  that's atmospheric pressure.
> 
> 
> Wabro's web site will show you the venturi size of the 215. Not sure if zama does.. and it has litle meaning to compare them as a carb is balance of jet size/venturi. Look up the WT325 and compare it to the 215 - the 325 was originally on the 170 - it might give you a few clues if there's any difference.
> ...



Lake IYO, What would be a good carb for this application? (WT325 you spoke of)
I would like to upgrade the carb on my 180 also. Not so much that it needs it,.............just want to. 


Gary


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## PES+ (Sep 10, 2008)

Brad....can you post some pics? I have never seen an intellicarb that did not reference the interior of the air filter as that is how it works.

Now for the big argument maker....there is no intellicarb that does not use an accelerator pump of one sort or another.

About as big a hint as I can give you.

Too bad the big bad EPA made you so anti logical.

This question is for Andy/Lakeside ONLY (LOL fish meister it wouldn't let me rep you for that one)
What does a 200T with a bad accelerator pump run like most often if the pump is jammed so fuel does not flow?


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## blsnelling (Sep 10, 2008)

PES+ said:


> Brad....can you post some pics? I have never seen an intellicarb that did not reference the interior of the air filter as that is how it works.



I believe I was mistaken when I made that comment. It plugs into the filter housing body in the intake plenum, but seperated from the main air flow by a baffle. The connection is below the filter but is open to the filtered section.


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## blsnelling (Sep 10, 2008)

The WT325A does not have a H needle on it, so it's not an option if you're after WOT adjustment. That's what I just took off this saw. It runs a hair richer than the original Zama which had no L adjustment either. I ran the WT325A with my muffler mod. I'm planning on porting this saw, thus my quest for a fully adjustable carb.

I just came from the garage where I removed the Intellicarb cover and reinstalled the original flat cover. I plugged the hole in the filter housing with a rubber plug. With the Intellicarb cover, I had the L needle at 1 3/4 turns out to get good throttle response. I'm now at a more reasonable 1 1/4 turns and have good control over the idle speed and excellent throttle response. I've yet to cut wood with it, but initial results are promissing.

I measured the bores of the three carbs. The original Zama is actually the largest at 0.631". Both Walbros, WT325A & WT215, have a 0.627" bore. So it's not from having too little velocity due to a larger bore. I'm guessing the Walbro just doesn't like the Intellicarb cover since it didn't come with one. I'm only guessing.

Pes+, thanks for the tip. It looks like it worked. More testing to follow once I get it in some wood again.


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## Trigger-Time (Sep 10, 2008)

*Your doing good their, Brad*

I have a 215 carb.......I'm just waiting on you to get all the bugs worked out before I proceed with mine  .......kinda of chicken sh!t, of me.

Gary


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## blsnelling (Sep 10, 2008)

If you don't want to plug the Intellicarb port in your filter housing, it looks like you can buy a 018 housing without the port, PN 1130 140 2804. The 017 IPL has it listed as a 1130 140 2803. I'm not sure what would be different.

Can anyone tell me what PN 1130 124 7100 is for? It's item #11 on page 8 of my MS180 IPL.


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## blsnelling (Sep 10, 2008)

Trigger-Time said:


> *Your doing good their, Brad*
> 
> I have a 215 carb.......I'm just waiting on you to get all the bugs worked out before I proceed with mine  .......kinda of chicken sh!t, of me.
> 
> Gary



Just do it! 


Remove the brass plug from the impulse passage on the rear face of the WT215.
Plug the original passage with JBWeld or something similiar.
Install the carb. Do not use the Intellicarb cover from the original carb.
Block the hole in the filter housing where the Intellicarb port inserted.
Drill holes in the plasic for access to the screws.
Install a small screw behind the throttle linkage, blocking the slot, so that linkage will have enough travel to go WOT. Do not bend the linkage or the carb may not fully return to idle.
[/LIST]


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 10, 2008)

PES+ said:


> Brad....can you post some pics? I have never seen an intellicarb that did not reference the interior of the air filter as that is how it works.
> 
> Now for the big argument maker....there is no intellicarb that does not use an accelerator pump of one sort or another.
> 
> ...




No arguement can be made... Very very few Stihl Intelli-carbs use any form of accelerator pump... I'm hard pressed to name more than the 200T and 200 (saws) 


The question - usually - you get a lag in acceleration, and as it it gets worse, it just won't accelerate. Often, it''s intermittent.. . And... sometimes you get what seems like a failing seal - revs up and quits.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 10, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> I measured the bores of the three carbs. The original Zama is actually the largest at 0.631". Both Walbros, WT325A & WT215, have a 0.627" bore. So it's not from having too little velocity due to a larger bore. I'm guessing the Walbro just doesn't like the Intellicarb cover since it didn't come with one. I'm only guessing.
> 
> .




You cannot compare bores directy on the Zama and Walbro carbs, or carbs from different families - it's a balanced system... many ways to skin a cat (as to put it....).

The intelli cover should make no difference unless it just didn't fit correctly.


----------



## Trigger-Time (Sep 10, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> No arguement can be made... Very very few Stihl Intelli-carbs use any form of accelerator pump... I'm hard pressed to name more than the 200T and 200.
> 
> 
> .




accelerator pump......what about 361...........just what I read in manual.


Gary


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 10, 2008)

Now you made me go look it up!


Accelerator pumps:

MS200/T
MS192/T
MS270/280
MS341/361
MS441


All current USA saws except the 210/230/250 use intelli-carbs.

Yes. The trend is towards leaner idling saws that will need an accelerator pump... great...


I forgot the above had accelerator pumps as apart from the ZAMA carb on the 200T, they NEVER give any problems.


----------



## PES+ (Sep 11, 2008)

*Told yah......argument*



Lakeside53 said:


> No arguement can be made... Very very few Stihl Intelli-carbs use any form of accelerator pump... I'm hard pressed to name more than the 200T and 200 (saws)
> 
> 
> The question - usually - you get a lag in acceleration, and as it it gets worse, it just won't accelerate. Often, it''s intermittent.. . And... sometimes you get what seems like a failing seal - revs up and quits.



Appears you have never dealt with a dry accelerator pump Andy.

A dead dry pump acts exactly the same way as Brad described his problem was.

If you reason out how the intellicarb works and it's function you will see my statement holds true.

The intellicarb arraignment cannot work in a standard 2 circuit carburetor without additional help.

There are also quasi three circuit carbs that perform a function similar to an accelerator pump.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 11, 2008)

Sorry... Intell-carb came out way before any accelerator pumps... 

All the Stihl saws in production other than those I listed have intelli carbs and no accelerator pumps. Examples - 260, 290/310/390, 440, 460, 660 etc.. and during the transition to intelli, the only change on the carb was to swap out the end cover. Stihl even supplied both covers (still do in some cases) when you buy a replacement carb.


Brads removing the intelli metering cover had nothing to do with his problem... unless it wasn't bolted down - it just changes the sense pressure point, and if it was running without his airfiler it the same as not having it installed.

Dry pumps? LOLOL I replace maybe 3-5 new pump type carb a month - bone dry from the box... No issues, ever.


----------



## lectrocrew (Sep 11, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> Just do it!
> [*]Remove the brass plug from the impulse passage on the rear face of the WT215.
> ]


I want to make sure I'm about to mutulate the correct plug. Is it the one circled in red in this picture?
Also, is that plug on the same circuit as the hole circled in yellow? I hope so because I don't see a place on my intake to mate with that hole. 
I cranked mine this morning but it's WAY lean at idle and stumbles bad on acceleration. WOT is not adjusting correctly either. It actually idles somewhat smooth, = lean also.
I assume me not plugging that brass plug is creating a major vaccumn leak, correct?
All the pictures I took of mine are here. My cover has what I assume is the area machined for the intellicarb hook-up, but the passage goes nowhere as you can see in this picture. That area actually had a foam filter in front of it from the factory, but there is absolutely no orfice of any kind for air to pass through it. Why did Stihl do this? Go figure.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 11, 2008)

Pull the brass plug circled in red and block off the hole circled in yellow. Without pulling that plug you have no impulse signal. I'm not sure how it ran for you at all. Make sure you block that Intellicarb port in the housing though. It actually enters the clean side of the filter through that little slit. If you don't, you'll end up with garbage in your engine.


----------



## lectrocrew (Sep 11, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> Pull the brass plug circled in red and block off the hole circled in yellow. Without pulling that plug you have no impulse signal. I'm not sure how it ran for you at all.


Done. I'll wait till tommorrow to let the JB Weld cure then try it again. Then when it runs good I'll be ready to try and follow you on the port job.  



> Make sure you block that Intellicarb port in the housing though. It actually enters the clean side of the filter through that little slit. If you don't, you'll end up with garbage in your engine.



I'm trying to understand what to block for the intellicarb port. I looked at the 018 IPL and it shows 2 different carbs. 1 with the intellicarb hook up and 1 without. My saw had the carb without it and the port in the housing was never machined. The hole goes nowhere and will hold fluid, (well, aftershave lotion anyway. I couldn't find any alcohol.  ) shown in this picture.
More pictures
Am I still lost?

Thanks for your help Brad!!!


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 11, 2008)

You're welcome. That's weird on the blind hole. I'll double check mine again.


----------



## pgg (Sep 11, 2008)

Well, here's a non-intelli carb on a 200T, the only difference I see is the top lid, I just plugged the hole that connects the fancy intelli lid to the internal airbox. Runs sweet. Actually it ran sweet with the hole unplugged too, but the dust'll get into the airbox if not plugged.

intelligent carbs - be afraid, be very afraid! Rise of the machines, judgment day and all that, Arnies' retired, who's gonna protect us now?!


----------



## lectrocrew (Sep 11, 2008)

Yep, mine had the dimwit lid. Hey wait, does that mean... never mind.


----------



## PES+ (Sep 11, 2008)

*Yawn*

Andy is right Brad.

What I told you does not work.....throw it all away.

The metering diaphram does not care that it get a negative pressure pulse at exactly the time that you open the throttle which is stronger than the venturi vacuum signal hence the bog and stumble that you suffered.

That was obviously wrong because Andy says so it was all an illusion.

It is the damned EPA....Stihl and Andy are above the laws of physics.

New science.

I am sorry that it appeared that I gave you a solution Brad.

I will refrain from talking sense in the future


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## blsnelling (Sep 11, 2008)

All I know is that L adjustment went from 1 3/4 to 1 1/4 and all I did was remove the Intellicarb cover. That was plenty to let the idle speed be properly adjusted once again.


----------



## PES+ (Sep 11, 2008)

There are ways to make things work most times Brad with an understanding of how the individual components work.

Take a little time browsing the Zama and Walbro tech pages from the resources thread and you will get a basic understanding on how the diaphram carbs operate.

All of the itellicarb units have some form of compensation because of the pulse that you were dealing with.

If a carb is made to use the intellicarb set up you can go back to atmoshperic reference on the metering chamber dry side and it has little effect just some extra fuel in transition.
That is the reason there were carbs available with both covers they have some form of compensation which acts as an accelerator pump whatever people wish to label it.

If a carb is made for atmoshperic reference or closed dry side metering diaphram chamber you will have the problems you encountered.

Accelerator pumps and/or other means to provide the same function are primarily used to run a larger carburetor on a given engine than you would be able to using even a three circuit carburetor and still have reasonable idling and acceleration.


I like my new bait.......it still lands the big one.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 11, 2008)

PES+ said:


> Andy is right Brad.
> 
> What I told you does not work.....throw it all away.
> 
> ...




:monkey: 

you're full of it.... show me the accelarator pump on any 2000/2001 Stihl Intel carb... or any of the later versions I listed without them. Your malking up "non-science" to cover your wacky theories.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 11, 2008)

Can't we all just get along. Let's try to keep this thread clean so that the information to be found here doesn't get lost in the fray. I appreciate everyones input. If it works, it works. If it don't, that's OK too. Just looking for a solution.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 11, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> All I know is that L adjustment went from 1 3/4 to 1 1/4 and all I did was remove the Intellicarb cover. That was plenty to let the idle speed be properly adjusted once again.



Just coincidence.... the intel without an airfilter is the same as a non-intel... I suspect you had an airleak in the carb.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 11, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> I suspect you had an airleak in the carb.



That's a possibility. I doubt I'll miss the Intellicarb though since I don't let my filters get that dirty.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 11, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> Can't we all just get along. Let's try to keep this thread clean so that the information to be found here doesn't get lost in the fray.



The so-called 'information" is lost in the off-wall theories.,. these things aren't that complicated...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 11, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> That's a possibility. I doubt I'll miss the Intellicarb though since I don't let my filters get that dirty.




Clean filters - yes... 

I'm not sure it's all that effective anyhow... but it is a good way to stop the metering cover "atmosheric" vent from being blocked with crap.


----------



## lectrocrew (Sep 12, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Clean filters - yes...
> 
> I'm not sure it's all that effective anyhow... but it is a good way to stop the metering cover "atmosheric" vent from being blocked with crap.


I never thought of that but it sure makes sense.  



blsnelling said:


> You're welcome. That's weird on the blind hole. I'll double check mine again.


What's weirder is that Stihl has a foam filter in front of that hole from the factory on my saw. It looks like maybe part # 1130 141 4300 (packing (49.2000)).

Anyway, I put the WT-215 back on today after the changes and she runs really well at idle, acceleration and WOT. I don't have a tach but I feel a lot more comfortable being able to tune that '4-stroke' effect @ WOT.
Thanks again for your help and expertise Brad. Hopefully I'll get the time to port this little baby soon!


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 12, 2008)

I'm glad it worked out for you too.


----------



## ironman_gq (Sep 14, 2008)

just finished mine too!!! I found that my saw had a lot more power in the wood after the swap. I could actually put some decent pressure on the saw while cutting without bogging down too much while before I could barely put anything on it without stopping the chain.


----------



## Trigger-Time (Sep 15, 2008)

Pulled carb off my 180, just to see what I would be in for.

Org. carb, has a slot for throttle linkage to hook in. 215 carb has
a small oblong hole for linkage to hook in. 

Whats the trick to hook up the linkage to the 215 carb? :blush:


----------



## John Deere (Sep 15, 2008)

Mine runs super and starts so ez i mean 1 pull cold no choke


----------



## lectrocrew (Sep 16, 2008)

Trigger-Time said:


> Pulled carb off my 180, just to see what I would be in for.
> 
> Org. carb, has a slot for throttle linkage to hook in. 215 carb has
> a small oblong hole for linkage to hook in.
> ...



It wasn't a problem for me. Although I had to bend my linkage slightly to get the throttle valve to open fully I had no problem with connecting the original linkage to the new carb. Yes the flange on the throttle shaft was a little different but it hooked up fine and operates fine unless there is something I didn't notice that will be a future problem. I hope not. I've only cut a small amout with it so far.
Maybe Brad can help you more when he gets back on.


----------



## lectrocrew (Sep 16, 2008)

John Deere said:


> Mine runs super and starts so ez i mean 1 pull cold no choke


Wow, that's unusual. How does it idle when it gets hot. I would think if the low side is rich enough to crank cold - no choke, then hot idle would be way rich.


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## ironman_gq (Sep 16, 2008)

I pulled the trigger assembly apart and took the throttle rod out and attatched it before I put the carb in and while I was in there i put a small piece of rod into the back of the slot on the trigger so that the throttle would open all the way and I wouldnt have to bend the linkage. THe hardest part was getting the holes cut so that I could reach the adjusting screws and idle screw.


----------



## Trigger-Time (Sep 16, 2008)

ironman_gq said:


> I pulled the trigger assembly apart and took the throttle rod out and attatched it before I put the carb in and while I was in there i put a small piece of rod into the back of the slot on the trigger so that the throttle would open all the way and I wouldnt have to bend the linkage. THe hardest part was getting the holes cut so that I could reach the adjusting screws and idle screw.






Put mine on tonight, put the Intellicarb cover on the 215 carb.
Used a Dremel Tool with a ball nose bur to cut holes for H, L and idle
screws. Ended up 1 1/4 out on L and 1 turn out on H screw. Now
it's running 13,800 instead of 15,000 WOT. Cut a few 9" cookies by the
headlight's of ATV  .............*It dose have more power *than before.  
Idle was good, will see how it starts cold in the morning.


Thanks Guy's,
Gary


----------



## Trigger-Time (Sep 16, 2008)

Don't know the seller and don't know if they are second's
I had to give $2 more for mine from another seller.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Walbro-WT-215-d...VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247


----------



## Slinky (Sep 23, 2008)

time for me to start moding my 180....
i just ordered a 215 off ebay...

now i can muffler mod and go how ever deeper i feel like going....blsnelling i'm blaming everything i do to this saw from now on on you! haha!  

one question...how do you guys know the RPM's your pulling on your saw?


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 23, 2008)

Slinky said:


> one question...how do you guys know the RPM's your pulling on your saw?



I use a small wireless tachometer made by TinyTach. LINK

LOL, you may not want to follow my example. I broke my first piston and flywheel working on my 180


----------



## RiverRat2 (Sep 23, 2008)

Slinky said:


> :
> 
> one question...how do you guys know the RPM's your pulling on your saw?




We rent this little mouse who is real good @ counting to keep up with them!!!!!! 

and pay him with cheddar cheese!!!!! :monkey: 

* Use a Tachometer silly!!!!!!*


----------



## Slinky (Sep 23, 2008)

RiverRat2 said:


> We rent this little mouse who is real good @ counting to keep up with them!!!!!!
> 
> and pay him with cheddar cheese!!!!! :monkey:
> 
> * Use a Tachometer silly!!!!!!*



ha i figured that much....where can i find one of these mice?
lol...

I'll try the inductive pickup off my Bluepoint multi meter...see if that will work.


----------



## woodchuck361 (Sep 23, 2008)

Slinky said:


> ha i figured that much....where can i find one of these mice?
> lol...
> 
> I'll try the inductive pickup off my Bluepoint multi meter...see if that will work.



The dvom is only good to around 12,000 I have already tried it. Sorry you have to break down and buy the tach. Look at it this was it is much cheaper then replacing the piston. several of the site sponsors sell them. 

Oh I got one from this fellow and bolted it on and it fired right up worked perfect. I only had to adjust the carb once I modded the muff.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Walbro-WT-215-d...ryZ85915QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 23, 2008)

Excellent. Another successful carb swap. I wish I could find a new WT-194. Can't seem to find on on the 'bay.


----------



## woodchuck361 (Sep 23, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> Excellent. Another successful carb swap. I wish I could find a new WT-194. Can't seem to find on on the 'bay.



Might send the guy in my link a note he does have a lot of carbs.


----------



## Trigger-Time (Sep 23, 2008)

I put a 16" 63PM .050 Picco Bar and chain on it tonight. Chain is far from
what you would call razor sharp. She's not very fast with 16" bar sunk into
the hilt in this Shumard Oak, but for what she is...... 


<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i116.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Trigger-Time_photos/Movie/PICT0157.flv">


----------



## Trigger-Time (Sep 23, 2008)

One more

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i116.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid116.photobucket.com/albums/o27/Trigger-Time_photos/Movie/PICT0143.flv">


----------



## woodchuck361 (Sep 23, 2008)

Trigger Time: how big did you go with your muff. mod? The muff sounds like it is really opened up. Or is it just the video?


----------



## Trigger-Time (Sep 23, 2008)

woodchuck361 said:


> Trigger Time: how big did you go with your muff. mod? The muff sounds like it is really opened up. Or is it just the video?



Drilled out top row of holes and all but three holes on bottom 
row with 3/16 drill. Left middle row of holes unmolested.
Also pried the louvers open some. 

Remember it's easy to take metal away.....much harder to put it back


----------



## woodchuck361 (Sep 23, 2008)

I only added 2, 1/4 inch holes and left all the factory holes alone. I also pried the louvers open a bit. I wonder if I should go more or if this enough?


----------



## Trigger-Time (Sep 23, 2008)

woodchuck361 said:


> I only added 2, 1/4 inch holes and left all the factory holes alone. I also pried the louvers open a bit. I wonder if I should go more or if this enough?



It's kind of a trial by fire............should be able to pick up a used
muffler cheap, if needed


----------



## ironman_gq (Sep 24, 2008)

has anybody noticed how open the inside of these mufflers is. mine looks like one of the modded ones you see with the perforated part of the cage all cut out already from the factory. What I wanna know is why they chose to do it this way with this saw but had to restrict all the other saws so bad. the outlet on the muffler is significantly larger than the one on my 290 as well IT JUST MAKES NO SENSE!!:monkey:


----------



## Slinky (Sep 24, 2008)

woodchuck361 said:


> The dvom is only good to around 12,000 I have already tried it. Sorry you have to break down and buy the tach. Look at it this was it is much cheaper then replacing the piston. several of the site sponsors sell them.
> 
> Oh I got one from this fellow and bolted it on and it fired right up worked perfect. I only had to adjust the carb once I modded the muff.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Walbro-WT-215-d...ryZ85915QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



i got one coming from this guy too.


----------



## SectorB (Sep 24, 2008)

So I now have my new muffler to be opened up for the 180 mod. The question is after that should I put in a new H Jet .47 or .48 or just spring and buy the Wt-215. Since you guys have put them on what would be your advice on this?


----------



## ironman_gq (Sep 24, 2008)

absolutely go for the 215 it will allow you to fully adjust your carb to the conditions as well as any future mods.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 24, 2008)

ironman_gq said:


> absolutely go for the 215 it will allow you to fully adjust your carb to the conditions as well as any future mods.



+1


----------



## Trigger-Time (Sep 24, 2008)

*Hey Brad,

Buy a 7T Picco drum sprocket...........then report  

1123 640 2000.......I think*


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 24, 2008)

Trigger-Time said:


> *Hey Brad,
> 
> Buy a 7T Picco drum sprocket...........then report
> 
> 1123 640 2000.......I think*



Mine has a 7-pin rim on it already. Got it from Baileys. It pulls it fine. I can tell a difference with the .050 guage and went back to .043.


----------



## Trigger-Time (Sep 24, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> Mine has a 7-pin rim on it already. Got it from Baileys. It pulls it fine. I can tell a difference with the .050 guage and went back to .043.



Thanks  

If I didn't use mine for gurb'n out brush, sprouts and small trees
in rocky ground, I would use the .043 chain.


----------



## Trigger-Time (Sep 25, 2008)

For grins, bought a rim drum sprocket kit. Was going to try
my 12" .043 BC but chain needs 1 more link to fit right.
14" .050 BC did fit. Hated to, but pulled out new chain
and give it a try. 90% of the cutting I do with it is 6" and smaller....
............*I think I like it *


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 25, 2008)

I put the 16" .050 bar and chain off my 200T and noticed a power loss. I went back to the .043 chain. Report back when you have a chance to get a better feel for it.


----------



## Slinky (Feb 17, 2009)

so i finally got around to doing this....
pulled the brass plug, plugged the other hole, switched caps, modded my muffler, adjusted 1 turn out on the high, and 1 1/4 on the low...had to turn the idle up a good ways, but damn this thing cuts nice now...i can put some good weight on it going into a log...it will bog down if you get deep enough, but nothin like it used to....definately worthwhile mod..should have done this a while ago!


----------



## biggenius29 (Apr 1, 2009)

I have been looking, but I guess not in the right spots. Where can I find a carb? I tryed E-bay but nothing.


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 1, 2009)

I bought mine off of eBay.


----------



## Slinky (Apr 1, 2009)

mine too!


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 1, 2009)

I'd try a 200T carb.


----------



## biggenius29 (Apr 1, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I bought mine off of eBay.



I havent been able to find one yet.


----------



## Glen1978 (Apr 6, 2010)

Bringing this back from the dead. Ok I got a little 170 that is outa warranty and really like the size but would like a little more umph to it. I found a WT215 carb and understand the "yellow and red" hole things. What I dont understand is the intellicarb cover and all that jazz. You guys are saying replace a cover or something another. Can somebody post some pics on what your talking about? I would appreciate it.


----------



## MuleyJ (Apr 6, 2010)

Glen1978 said:


> Bringing this back from the dead. Ok I got a little 170 that is outa warranty and really like the size but would like a little more umph to it. I found a WT215 carb and understand the "yellow and red" hole things. What I dont understand is the intellicarb cover and all that jazz. You guys are saying replace a cover or something another. Can somebody post some pics on what your talking about? I would appreciate it.



I'll try to get into my 170 and post some pics tonight.

In pic 1 the top cover on the left is an intellicarb cover the one on the right is not. If u can switch the intellicarb cover from the stock carb to the adjustable one. I had problems with this as the tapped holes were slighty different. So I just left the non IC cover on and took some filter material and plugged the port on the back side of the airbox (pics 2 and 3). If you go this route you will have to plug it with a rubber plug or filter material or something to keep debris from entering the carb and crankcase.

Whoa, those pics are kinda big, in to much of a hurry I guess, sorry.




.


----------



## lectrocrew (Apr 7, 2010)

Glen1978 said:


> Bringing this back from the dead. Ok I got a little 170 that is outa warranty and really like the size but would like a little more umph to it. I found a WT215 carb and understand the "yellow and red" hole things. What I dont understand is the intellicarb cover and all that jazz. You guys are saying replace a cover or something another. Can somebody post some pics on what your talking about? I would appreciate it.



I have a few pics HERE



Glen1978 said:


> You guys are saying replace a cover or something another.



Which # post in this thread are you reffering to?


----------



## Glen1978 (Apr 7, 2010)

I was referring to the intellicarb cover. I was unsure what that was. I got my little 170 running good yesterday.....guess it was some bad gas. Did a little muffler mod to it and she cuts great.


----------



## olaf (Apr 12, 2010)

Hallo,

I have just bought a used ms 180, it has a problem - bogs down when adding rpm, its just like it had the chain brake on but its not. I clened the carb a little - opening up blowing some air in and so, after that it worked ok. then, few days later I started the saw and the same thing happened, it bogs down when adding gas. I assume that the problem is the carburetor, should I just order a new one, which do you suggest, change the zama to walbro or ust buy the original zama which is meant for this saw, or is there any other things to check before buying stuff ? the saw starts good idle is also ok, dont know...

also, I am complete hobbyst, this means just cutting few trees in the garden spring / summer.

BTW this is one great and useful forum, lots of chainsaw specialists here


----------



## ironman_gq (Apr 12, 2010)

I would start by checking your fuel line and filter and make sure you have fresh non-ethanol gas.


----------



## olaf (Apr 13, 2010)

thanks, will try check these, look for holes and dirt I quess, or just change them ?


----------



## olaf (Apr 22, 2010)

I have changed the fuel line + filter, no change.

how can I test the carburetor ? should there be any gasket between the carb an the air intake box ?


----------



## ironman_gq (Apr 22, 2010)

Does it get better after the saw warms up a little. My 180 is a little cold blodded and will bog or die until it warms up a little then it runs great. This seems a lot worse if it has been sitting for a while


----------



## olaf (Apr 22, 2010)

well it starts up better when warm, bogs anyway

its one messed up little machine 

now its very hard to get it working also, when it starts, runs a little, then stops

thinking to buy one new used carb off ebay, just for testing


----------



## ironman_gq (Apr 22, 2010)

Richen up the low side a 1/4 turn and see if it helps


----------



## olaf (Apr 22, 2010)

this I have done


----------



## ironman_gq (Apr 22, 2010)

I would try rebildimg the carb or if you can find a new one cheap enough I would replace it. The small passages are very hard to clean without pulling the welch plugs out of th carb.


----------



## olaf (May 15, 2010)

hi, just to inform that I changed the carb for another used one and the saw works like new 

if someone will have similar probs then the carburetor might be the cause

thanks,


----------



## lectrocrew (May 18, 2010)

Glen1978 said:


> and she cuts great.


Excellent


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 19, 2010)

Here's the details on modding a MS180 with a WT-215 carb off a 025. LINK


----------



## thomas1 (Sep 21, 2010)

Thanks for the info, Brad. I did this swap a couple of weeks ago and it gives the 180 a new lease on life.

For those that are looking for carbs, I have a few dealers in fairly close proximity and prices ranged from $37 to $70. One dealer buys them in bulk and told me his price was $28 each, sold it to me for $40, it was in a Walbro box. The dealer that has them at $32 has to order them but they come in a Stihl box. 
Maybe in this case it's actually cheaper/easier to get them from a dealer?


----------



## GTP (Oct 1, 2010)

I was able to snag a WT-215 from ebay recently for $25 shipped. Makes a bug difference on the 017-thanks for all the info in this thread and to Murf for sending it to me. Thinking of some mild porting but I am scared I'll mess it up until I get some guidance on porting such a small cylinder...:newbie:

Next up on mod deck is my EchoCs400 and Husky 365.


----------



## woodchuck361 (Oct 18, 2010)

I have another 180 to do a muff mod on and just wondered if it would be possable to just enlarge the main jet using a jet drill from the stock .45 to say .48?I know it would still be non adjustable but would that work.. the owner doesnt want to spend the 30-40 for the wt215 carb....


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## tmessenger (Oct 19, 2010)

I have a Wt-215 already set up for a 017~018 if anyone needs one, you just have to change out the throttle plate and shaft from your stock carb.

tm


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 19, 2010)

woodchuck361 said:


> I have another 180 to do a muff mod on and just wondered if it would be possable to just enlarge the main jet using a jet drill from the stock .45 to say .48?I know it would still be non adjustable but would that work.. the owner doesnt want to spend the 30-40 for the wt215 carb....



Absolutely. It's just a matter of pulling the carb back off several times to get it right. And then if you go too big...............


----------



## GTP (Oct 19, 2010)

tmessenger said:


> I have a Wt-215 already set up for a 017~018 if anyone needs one, you just have to change out the throttle plate and shaft from your stock carb.
> 
> tm



I just changed the shaft. It operates properly and goes full throttle without changing the plate (at least on mine).


----------



## maplesprout (Oct 20, 2011)

*Gasket between carb and air filter box?*

Hi all,

I am new here and its my first post. I am attempting this carb swap for my ms180 and noticed there is no gasket between the carburetor and the air filter box it connects to. Is this normal? Or am I missing a gasket? Could anyone spare me a service manual with IPL? I greatly appreciate your input.

Peter


----------



## maplesprout (Oct 20, 2011)

Ok,

I found the IPL from this site (Thanks Ray B!). From the diagram I don't see a gasket between the filter box and the carbuerator. Could someone confirm this? Thanks in advance.

Peter


----------



## w8ye (Oct 20, 2011)

Most saws have no gasket between the carb and the air filter box or elbow


----------



## maplesprout (Oct 20, 2011)

Thanks for your response. Now, getting it adjusted is whole another story~..


----------



## Danno (Dec 5, 2011)

I would like to consider changing out the main jet on my MS170 instead of doing a full carb swap. It currently has a Zama carb in it. i have read some part numbers on fixed jets, but they were all from walbro carbs. will these work with mine? some pics for fun...


----------



## R/C Pilot (Jun 5, 2012)

Just installed a new WT-215 on my MS180 and did a muffler mod. I just tweaked the throttle linkage a little to get it to go on and it goes wide open OK. I dialed it in and put 2 tanks through it. Runs great, starts so easy and idles without stalling. ( SUPER NICE UPGRADE ) A big thanks to all who shared their time and ideas to make this info available.


----------



## morgaj1 (Jun 5, 2012)

For those that have done this, how do you get the brass plug out of the 215 carb?


----------



## R/C Pilot (Jun 5, 2012)

I used STIHL TOOL( 5910 890 4500 A ) tool for pulling carb screw limiter caps.


----------



## atpchas (Jun 5, 2012)

morgaj1 said:


> For those that have done this, how do you get the brass plug out of the 215 carb?



I just used a drywall screw. The swap was super successful - it was a completely new and better saw afterwards. A big thank-you to Brad for outlining the procedure. This is the sort of thread that makes this such a great forum.


----------



## Naked Arborist (Jun 6, 2012)

R/C Pilot said:


> Just installed a new WT-215 on my MS180 and did a muffler mod. I just tweaked the throttle linkage a little to get it to go on and it goes wide open OK. I dialed it in and put 2 tanks through it. Runs great, starts so easy and idles without stalling. ( SUPER NICE UPGRADE ) A big thanks to all who shared their time and ideas to make this info available.



Glad you revived this thread R/C.

I just bought a 018C for my ground guy to use. I got to good of deal to pass it up. I like the saw but, the carb sucks! Had it off twice already and these damn Intelajunk deals are the down fall of a good running saw. This thing has to be running so lean already if I put it to the wood like I do with my 200T it will not last a week in the summertime. This is the only Intelajunk I have in the fleet. Worst part is all this shifting weather here in So. Jersey  I have a pile of carbs laying around and a few extras from 020 and 200T parts saws  Thanks to all who put the time in for such a great mod. Now I can get some mods done to this thing and have some sense of security when I mod it.


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## jimhoff (Jun 7, 2012)

Found a MS-180-C for a few bucks, owner saying the piston burned out. I noticed the chain was super dull. When I got it home I started the saw as is and it seemed fine. I pulled the muffler and saw some slight brown spots but no vertical scoring. Dumped the gas, blew everything clean with an air compressor, sharpened the chain a bunch, put good mix in and it cut very nicely indeed, for what it is.

I don't yet have a compression tester. If I hold the rope handle it will slowly fall. If you guys think the P & C are ok with the brown spots but no vertical scoring, I'll order a WB215 carb and do the muff mods, etc. 

What cheap compression tester do I need?

I don't care for the tool-less chain tensioner, but I can live with it--unless a standard chain tightener would fit in it without 50 in parts....

The ez-pull rope thing I like. It's kinda trippy :male-fighter2:


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## morgaj1 (Jun 9, 2012)

Will someone please post a picture of the holes you made to access the screws on the WT-215 carb?


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## mick300exc (Jun 9, 2012)

+1 for pics of the drilled adjuster holes in the top cover, I'm just about to attempt the swap as well.


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## morgaj1 (Jun 10, 2012)

Got the 215 carb installed and cover cut for H/L screws. I cannot see a way to cut the cover to get to the idle screw. Any ideas?


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## jimhoff (Jun 10, 2012)

morgaj1 said:


> Got the 215 carb installed and cover cut for H/L screws. I cannot see a way to cut the cover to get to the idle screw. Any ideas?



Would it be ok to tune with cover off? Or would the mixture change when you put it back on?


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## T0RN4D0 (May 2, 2013)

Heya, my ms180 is revving to high and has the non adjustable carb. Does anyone have any experience with the adjustable carb from feebay? Costs less than $20 delivered, don't want to invest much into the saw. Not looking for any power upgrade either, just want to prevent the saw from burning up. Will it work or is it another fine product of china that doesn't really function properly?


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## Slinky (May 2, 2013)

And why wouldn't you want a power upgrade?


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## T0RN4D0 (May 2, 2013)

Its not that i don't want it, i just don't want to spend any coin on it. I'm using the 180 to cut stuff thats in the 5" range and its usually less than that. It has more than enough power to do that.

If i need to cut real wood i grab a real saw.


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## Slinky (May 2, 2013)

I use my 180 to cut through anything the chain will go through! Adjustable carb and opening up the exhaust only cost about $20. Just as real of a saw as my 034 or 362 and my arms aren't dead after using it for an hour


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## Naked Arborist (May 2, 2013)

As it turns out I like the 018C and the tool-less adjuster. The saw has been on the ground for a year and up a tree one day. It has run well in stock form. The carb had something jammed up like black snot behind the fixed H jet. After the problem was found the carb has been trouble free since. I did a muff mod on it some months back. Boy, did it wake that saw up. Pulls the 16 with 3/8 lo pro well. Like to find a jug for porting and swap them out just to see if it gains more.


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## chainsawnut460 (May 2, 2013)

440 carb is what you need:hmm3grin2orange:


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## T0RN4D0 (May 2, 2013)

I guess i'll order the carb and see if its any good.


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## likesaws (May 13, 2013)

*ms 180 carb swap*

I just put the WT-215 on my 180 today.

To take the brass plug out, took the top off and pushed off with small 90 pick tool.
Sealed the other hole with JB weld, worked great. Put air box back on and drilled adjustment
holes , not to hard to line up since one I had adjustment slots even though they were not 
used. Ran today without air box and filter ran great. Low screw out 1 1/4 turns high out 
1 1/8 turns. Will let you know how runs when fully assembled waiting for RTV to dry in
extra hole, in filter box.


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## T0RN4D0 (May 23, 2013)

Well just following up, i got the cheapest adjustable carb from feebay in delivered today, swapped it out, drilled some holes for the new screws tuned it works like a charm. =)

The quality of the carb looked good, we'll see how it does long term...Im not expecting any probs because this saw doesn't see any serious action.


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## blsnelling (Jan 23, 2014)

Bump


----------



## cjcocn (Jan 23, 2014)

Thanks for the bump, Brad.

I just read through this thread and am now in search of a reasonably-priced carb (I am in Canada!) so that I can do this mod on my MS170.

It will be nice to clear the trails I ride with a saw that doesn't want to bog down when it feels wood. 

cheers!


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## stubnail67 (Jan 23, 2014)

ok so will the 215 carb bolt right on a basic ms 170 or do you have to modify it?i thought scott said it bolted right on to his..... he never said he did anything else but tune it and mod the muffler...... suppose i need to go find that thread and browse it again.....


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## likesaws (Jan 23, 2014)

stubnail67 said:


> ok so will the 215 carb bolt right on a basic ms 170 or do you have to modify it?i thought scott said it bolted right on to his..... he never said he did anything else but tune it and mod the muffler...... suppose i need to go find that thread and browse it again.....


Their is a hole on the back of the wt215 that needs sealed up I used JB weld. Compair to original carb to see which one is not their. Their is pics in original thread if can be found. Don't remember why brass plug needed removed, to open correct passage I think I know I removed it. This was done on ms180. Runs great also did muff mod.


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## leecopland (Jan 23, 2014)

cjcocn said:


> Thanks for the bump, Brad.
> 
> I just read through this thread and am now in search of a reasonably-priced carb (I am in Canada!) so that I can do this mod on my MS170.
> 
> ...


I just ordered an adjustable carb from Huztl on ebay ($10.00+ship). I'll report how it works once it arrives.

Lee


----------



## tmessenger (Jan 27, 2014)

I just installed one of the Huztl ebay fully adjustable carb's on a 017 works great and is nicely made, I paid under $10 including shipping.


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## leecopland (Feb 4, 2014)

tmessenger said:


> I just installed one of the Huztl ebay fully adjustable carb's on a 017 works great and is nicely made, I paid under $10 including shipping.


Did you have to modify the throttle rod? I can't see how I could get it on without taking handle apart to get the other end of the throttle rod free. It's pretty tight in the carb air box!
The carb itself looks very good. The Stihl one, non-adjustable, I'm replacing is also made in China!

Thanks Lee


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## tmessenger (Feb 4, 2014)

leecopland said:


> Did you have to modify the throttle rod? I can't see how I could get it on without taking handle apart to get the other end of the throttle rod free. It's pretty tight in the carb air box!
> The carb itself looks very good. The Stihl one, non-adjustable, I'm replacing is also made in China!
> 
> Thanks Lee


You have to take the handle apart to replace the carb just remove the linkage from the trigger, no linkage mod required, it's easy to do.


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## leecopland (Feb 5, 2014)

Well before reading this response, I went ahead and started to modify the carb as it didn't have a slot for the throttle rod but a hole. And as I could not get it to fit I thought I'll give it a slot to make it easier to fit. As I was cutting the slot with a little cuttoff wheel on my Dremmil I managed to cut the spring so pretty much carb is now useless. I could take another spring off an unused carb except that I cannot remove the throttle plate due to a crappie Philips screw that is now stripped. So I've re-installed the non adjustable original. My day so far!

Lee


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## leecopland (Feb 5, 2014)

Opps! I was left with a plastic part 1130 124 3200 heat shield, over after putting my 170 back together. It doesn't show up on the 17,18 IPL which is the only one I have. I haven't replaced the muffler vet so it may go near there. Good fun!

Edit Gmax kindly sent me an IPL so the part is now installed where it should be. Thanks again Gmax


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## tmessenger (Feb 5, 2014)

You can buy a new fully adjustable carb for under $10 shipped that is made for the 017, it bolts right on. A muffler mod and this carb really wakes up the saw, it's worth the effort.


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## leecopland (Feb 6, 2014)

That's the one I ruined!


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## cjcocn (Feb 6, 2014)

Do you guys have a link for the carb? I just searched ebay and hutzl has no carbs listed for sale.

Thanks


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## tmessenger (Feb 6, 2014)

cjcocn said:


> Do you guys have a link for the carb? I just searched ebay and hutzl has no carbs listed for sale.
> 
> Thanks


They are closed until Feb 7 for the new year but here's the link.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STIHL-Chain...778?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af487d722


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## cjcocn (Feb 6, 2014)

tmessenger said:


> They are closed until Feb 7 for the new year but here's the link.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/STIHL-Chain...778?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af487d722



Thanks! 

I think I will order one today and get that mod done before spring trail clearing happens.


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## 94BULLITT (Feb 9, 2014)

What are you guys doing to the case and cover to get to the screws on the carb?


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## cjcocn (Feb 9, 2014)

94BULLITT said:


> What are you guys doing to the case and cover to get to the screws on the carb?



They are drilling out the cover to have access to the screws. 

Mine was just ordered so will not be in for a while, but I will drill out the cover as well.


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## 94BULLITT (Feb 9, 2014)

cjcocn said:


> They are drilling out the cover to have access to the screws.
> 
> Mine was just ordered so will not be in for a while, but I will drill out the cover as well.



Is there a grommet that I can use to make it look factory?


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## Weava (Feb 28, 2014)

Are you guys have having to pull a brass plug and jb weld a hole on the cheap ebay carbs? Thanks in advance and great thanks to blsnelling for this thread.


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## dswensen (Feb 28, 2014)

No, the cheap E-bay carb I got ran the saw right out of the box once I installed it. That said, I took it back off and replaced it with the the OEM carb The fit of the air filter box wouldn't work. It probably will when I have more time to trim and custom fit, but for me, it wasn't a drop-in.


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## cjcocn (Mar 5, 2014)

94BULLITT said:


> Is there a grommet that I can use to make it look factory?



I am not sure, but if there is a grommet on other saws then one can probably be found off an old saw or maybe ordered new and installed.


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## 94BULLITT (Mar 5, 2014)

cjcocn said:


> I am not sure, but if there is a grommet on other saws then one can probably be found off an old saw or maybe ordered new and installed.


I looked after I asked about the grommet. I don't think a grommet would work real good because of the way the case is snapped.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## Weava (Mar 5, 2014)

*dswensen*...... thanks for the heads up. I just ordered mine and it comes with the new fuel line, fuel filter, oil line, oil filter, spark plug, air filter, and carb. $18 shipped. Too good of a deal to pass up...... hopefully it works out.


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## winchester (Mar 5, 2014)

Forgive me I didn't want to read this entire thread, but I've had good luck with a Tillotson HU-133A. That's a dual adjustment carburetor that will fit right on the 017/018/MS 170/MS 180. Sorry if someone already said this, but man this thread is a monster.


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## Red Amor (May 11, 2014)

Gday Gents
Greeat threws thanks for posting it
Ive a 180 I have been running on 25 to 1 and this seems to be a tad oily , looking at the exhaust looks pto be fairly dirty but not horrible by any means, I wondered Bred and other just what mixter you fellers use and what preferences as to brand of oil and fuel octane, I uceing Castrol two stroke oil and 200 mills to 4 ltres of 98 octane fuel what do you think of this , no smoke to speak of saws run nice but the 180 although quite new with about 2 dozen tanks of fuel through it seems a lil dirty around the exhaust
thank you yeah


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## leecopland (May 11, 2014)

Red Amor said:


> Gday Gents
> Greeat threws thanks for posting it
> Ive a 180 I have been running on 25 to 1 and this seems to be a tad oily , looking at the exhaust looks pto be fairly dirty but not horrible by any means, I wondered Bred and other just what mixter you fellers use and what preferences as to brand of oil and fuel octane, I uceing Castrol two stroke oil and 200 mills to 4 ltres of 98 octane fuel what do you think of this , no smoke to speak of saws run nice but the 180 although quite new with about 2 dozen tanks of fuel through it seems a lil dirty around the exhaust
> thank you yeah


I would lighten up to 40: 1 or 45:1 using synthetic Factory recommendation is 50:1

Gday cobba


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## chainsawman2011 (May 11, 2014)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/31072077478...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1763wt_943

these are a aftermarket copy of the walbro wt carb used on 021 025 I am sure
they are from china, but I just fitted one to an ms170 just takes some modification.
like using the snout top of the other carb and drilling access holes through the white plastic near handle. I just finished the saw last week and it runs excellent. way better than the single adjust carb.


----------



## glock37 (May 11, 2014)

I got a wt215 new carb for my 017

disassembled the saw got old carb off

got the brass plug out of new carb jb welding up the other hole the carb box intake has 2 holes for the hi carb screw already

I used a old 064 grommet as a guide with a dowel in the lo hole and drilled a new hi hole in plastic on white plastic so you can get to hi screw on carb

drilled some bigger holes in muffler and opened up front screen


----------



## glock37 (May 12, 2014)

Well after the JB weld harden after 1 day I reassembled the saw put gas in it fired it up had to open both screws 1/4 turn richer and she idles and rev deceit

tues finish tuning it but a lot peper than the stock carb and sounds better with the extra holes drilled in the muffler and opened up the louvers a bit

is this what everyone else got when they did there upgrade ?

Mike


----------



## leecopland (May 12, 2014)

Yupp!

Well not so fast. I put my Hutzl carb on an 017 and it seemed fine in the shop but bogs in wood at full throttle. Does that mean I'm too rich or too lean?

Also I can't seem to get the the idle adj screw through the hole that I made.

Thanks for feed back


----------



## Glen1978 (Nov 5, 2014)

Im finally getting around to doing the swap on my MS170. Question. Im a little confused here. Do you swap the intellicarb top cap on the carbs or not? My original carb has the Intel top, WT does not. Seems some have swapped them and some havent if I read right. Does the brass plug need to be pulled out regardless if so? Other than that Im good to go on it. Its raining here need something to do in the shop today....lol


----------



## leecopland (Nov 5, 2014)

leecopland said:


> Yupp!
> 
> Well not so fast. I put my Hutzl carb on an 017 and it seemed fine in the shop but bogs in wood at full throttle. Does that mean I'm too rich or too lean?
> 
> ...


Anyway I got it sorted and have now sold it off for a small profit. I didn't use the intellitop on my Chinese carb and I didn't plug the hole in the airbox as it appears all ait still goes through the filter. Chinese carb worked very well nicely made and for $10.00 can't be beat.


----------



## angelo c (Feb 22, 2015)

Bumping...

My MS 250's do t have adjustable carbs...so I first need WT 215s for the 250s then the 180s...
So do I just buy stock in Hutzl or ....


----------



## jughead500 (Feb 22, 2015)

angelo c said:


> Bumping...
> 
> My MS 250's do t have adjustable carbs...so I first need WT 215s for the 250s then the 180s...
> So do I just buy stock in Hutzl or ....


Angelo checkout the carb section at definative daves.i bought one of the farmer tec carbs to try out and it works great.
https://squareup.com/market/chainsaw-conservation-com


----------



## Termite (Feb 22, 2015)

angelo c said:


> Bumping...
> 
> My MS 250's do t have adjustable carbs...so I first need WT 215s for the 250s then the 180s...
> So do I just buy stock in Hutzl or ....


 I bought a Walbro 215 from my Stihl dealer for a 170. It was cheap ($27) and he had it in stock.


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## angelo c (Feb 22, 2015)

jughead500 said:


> Angelo checkout the carb section at definative daves.i bought one of the farmer tec carbs to try out and it works great.
> https://squareup.com/market/chainsaw-conservation-com


website marked...I never knew where his site was...hope this post stays for a while and he gets the LOVE !!!
good dude !


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## jughead500 (Feb 22, 2015)

angelo c said:


> website marked...I never knew where his site was...hope this post stays for a while and he gets the LOVE !!!
> good dude !


Yeap can't beat dave or his parts.


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## cjcocn (Aug 5, 2015)

Can anyone tell me if this carb will work? 

http://www.amazon.ca/Carburetor-STI...+025+MS210+MS230+MS250+Chainsaw+1123+120+0603

A search for the 215 gave me the WT286 as the carb for the 210/230/250.

Thanks


----------



## angelo c (Aug 5, 2015)

cjcocn said:


> Can anyone tell me if this carb will work?
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/Carburetor-STI...+025+MS210+MS230+MS250+Chainsaw+1123+120+0603
> 
> ...



Don't know Chris, But I think the linkages can be made to work with the adjustable body if it isn't a direct plug and play swap out.


----------



## cjcocn (Aug 5, 2015)

angelo c said:


> Don't know Chris, But I think the linkages can be made to work with the adjustable body if it isn't a direct plug and play swap out.



Well then I guess i will order it up and see. 

It's been sitting in an online checkout for a while now and I might as well complete the order.

Thanks for the response.


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## CJH (Jun 5, 2016)

Read this thread from the start, only question is the throttle linkage modification:

In_stall a small screw behind the throttle linkage, blocking the slot, so that linkage will have enough travel to go WOT. Do not bend the linkage or the carb may not fully return to idle.
_
Any photos of this modification? Is it made at the carb's linkage connection or in the handle (trigger) area?

Working on a MS170, runs great, but it sounds like this upgrade can wake it up a bit. 

Thanks!


----------



## strawmyers (Feb 10, 2017)

chainsawman2011 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/31072077478...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1763wt_943
> 
> these are a aftermarket copy of the walbro wt carb used on 021 025 I am sure
> they are from china, but I just fitted one to an ms170 just takes some modification.
> like using the snout top of the other carb and drilling access holes through the white plastic near handle. I just finished the saw last week and it runs excellent. way better than the single adjust carb.



Are you saying that, minus swapping the snouts, that this is a fully-adjustable carb is also a direct swap? http://www.ebay.com/itm/31072077478...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1763wt_943

I don't mind getting and modding a wt215 as described in this thread if needed; but I'd much rather have a "plug and play" option since this is not my saw and I'm messing with it for free out of the kindness of my heart. LOL

Sorry to drag up a really old thread. Just bought a used ms180 on behalf of a friend of mine. He has zero small engine experience; so I was going to give it a once-over for him and do any necessary maintenance. Running lean at WOT. Went to adjust carb and found out that's not possible... which lead to doing the research that lead me to this thread.


----------



## likesaws (Aug 8, 2017)

Bump to the top


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Aug 9, 2017)

MS170/180 has different impulse passage than MS250.
No problem. Just make sure to remove the tiny brass plug on the WT215 and block the 250 impulse passage. I use Yamabond to do that.
Otherwise, the carbs are plug & play.


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Aug 9, 2017)




----------



## Tigdim (Oct 3, 2017)

Adirondackstihl said:


> View attachment 595294
> View attachment 595295
> View attachment 595296



Got confused with all the links to different carbs... which one is in your pictures?


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Oct 3, 2017)

Tigdim said:


> Got confused with all the links to different carbs... which one is in your pictures?


WALBRO WT-215


----------



## Tigdim (Oct 4, 2017)

Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Squatch (Jan 26, 2019)

CJH said:


> Read this thread from the start, only question is the throttle linkage modification:
> 
> In_stall a small screw behind the throttle linkage, blocking the slot, so that linkage will have enough travel to go WOT. Do not bend the linkage or the carb may not fully return to idle.
> _
> ...


I’m doing this mod now don’t understand this step either. Did you figure it out?


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Jan 26, 2019)

Squatch said:


> I’m doing this mod now don’t understand this step either. Did you figure it out?


Wasn’t necessary on any I’ve seen


----------



## HarleyT (Jan 26, 2019)

Both saws have the same "impulse" passage,
don't they?


----------



## HarleyT (Jan 26, 2019)

Don't they?


----------



## Squatch (Jan 26, 2019)

Successfully did the swap to the WT-215. 

I would love to see some photos of others muffler mods. Or ideas on what you did. All the old photos don’t show up any longer on this thread. 

Tuning seemed optimal at 2600 rpms at idle and a steady 14200 max. 

Also went to a 7t rim sprocket.


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Jan 26, 2019)

Squatch said:


> Successfully did the swap to the WT-215.
> 
> I would love to see some photos of others muffler mods. Or ideas on what you did. All the old photos don’t show up any longer on this thread.
> 
> ...


I’ll try to dig up the pics


----------



## HarleyT (Jan 26, 2019)

What about the impulse passages?

How are they different?


----------



## Squatch (Jan 26, 2019)

HarleyT said:


> What about the impulse passages?
> 
> How are they different?


Unplug 6 0’ clock and plug 9.


----------



## Henry E (Jan 27, 2019)

I bought this off ebay. Doesn't have the envirosense. Bolted right up. NO need to plug anything. Drilling the adjustment holes wasn't too bad when you look from the side and top, you should be pretty close.


----------



## WTO (Jun 10, 2020)

I know this an old thread but I just discovered the non-adjustable POS carb my 2 year old saw would not run. It will crank but dies when you hit the gas. I figured it would be a simple adjustment....
Is there not an option to install a larger jet in the factory carb to correct the lean condition? I haven't pulled it apart yet, seems like that would be a simple fix?


----------



## rupedoggy (Jun 10, 2020)

WTO said:


> I figured it would be a simple adjustment....


Well since this is your first post I am going to be nice and say, when you figure out the simple adjustment share it with the other 20 that have 017/018 troubles on here. BTW the screws for some of these are left hand and increase fuel with a clockwise turn. Good luck


----------



## WTO (Jun 11, 2020)

rupedoggy said:


> Well since this is your first post I am going to be nice and say, when you figure out the simple adjustment share it with the other 20 that have 017/018 troubles on here. BTW the screws for some of these are left hand and increase fuel with a clockwise turn. Good luck


I took it apart, cleaned all the sawdust particles out of it, and it runs ok. I did bend the float arm a small amount to try and get more fuel into the bowl. It still has a lean stumble when you first hit the gas. I've spent a few hours looking and cant find a larger jet. Looks like the one in it is a .42. I found a Stihl parts list that shows the jet as P/N 4137 121 5601. Anyone know where I can get a .44 or .46 from? Searching some of the numbers off the carb, it I think it is model RB-27? The factory filter on these are junk, it lets too many fine particles by. Some of the fine dust was inside the carb, behind the diaphragm. I bought this saw new, really haven't run it that much. I know is a low end model but expected a little more from Stihl. If I had it to do over I would have found another old one and rebuilt it. I disassembled the carb, all the way down to the needle & main jet, didn't run across any LH threads? 
I've got an old McCullough 10-10 that is 40+ years old, and a 610. Both are more dependable than this 3 year old saw.


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## 94BULLITT (Jun 11, 2020)

I have a 170 that is 7 or 8 years old and it has been problem free. You shouldn't bend a metering lever unless you have the proper tool to adjust it. What do the diaphragm look like? Are they wrinkled? How long has the saw been sitting? 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## WTO (Jun 11, 2020)

94BULLITT said:


> I have a 170 that is 7 or 8 years old and it has been problem free. You shouldn't bend a metering lever unless you have the proper tool to adjust it. What do the diaphragm look like? Are they wrinkled? How long has the saw been sitting?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


It may have sit 6 months since its last use. I know there is a spec on the float arm, I was just trying some options to see if it would run & it did. The diaphragm was like new, no wrinkles, soft & pliable. Hard to believe there is nowhere to get a larger jet....
My big saws sit for a year or more and I rarely have an issue with them. My 610 is flooding now, its been 15 years since the carb was build on it, so I can't complain. I knocked down a big pine last week, and both the saws I had with me quit. My whole reason for buying a new saw a few years back was for reliability.....Guess I should have taken my Husky too but I didn't think I needed 3 saws for one tree


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## 94BULLITT (Jun 11, 2020)

If it has sat for 6 months the carb probably needs rebuilt, and you can get a new one so cheap they are not worth rebuilding. Now is a good time to put a WT215 on it. I would also put a new fuel filter on it. A muffler mod will make it a completely different saw.









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## Lee192233 (Jun 12, 2020)

I have a MS180C. I was cutting with it earlier this year. I noticed it stopped 4 stroking and was revving really high. Checked with the tach and I saw 15500 and shut her down. I cleaned carb and replaced the fuel filter and line. Same thing. After finding this thread I decided to buy the WT215 carb and install it. Best damn thing I ever did! I installed the carb (instructions are in this thread), opened up the muffler, new air filter and spark plug. It's a whole new saw. After tuning it she call pull a 14" 3/8 lp buried in ash. Used to be I had to keep pretty light pressure on it. Now I can put a little pressure on it and it keeps cutting. 

Good luck,
Lee


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## WTO (Jun 12, 2020)

Lee192233 said:


> I have a MS180C. I was cutting with it earlier this year. I noticed it stopped 4 stroking and was revving really high. Checked with the tach and I saw 15500 and shut her down. I cleaned carb and replaced the fuel filter and line. Same thing. After finding this thread I decided to buy the WT215 carb and install it. Best damn thing I ever did! I installed the carb (instructions are in this thread), opened up the muffler, new air filter and spark plug. It's a whole new saw. After tuning it she call pull a 14" 3/8 lp buried in ash. Used to be I had to keep pretty light pressure on it. Now I can put a little pressure on it and it keeps cutting.
> 
> Good luck,
> Lee


You talked me into it, I have one on the way. Do I really need to tach the saw or just tune by sound like I always have? I dont have a way to tach the saw that I'm aware of, is it time for another tool?


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## rupedoggy (Jun 12, 2020)

Don't buy cheap saws


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## Jasonrkba (Jun 12, 2020)

Tachs are subjective. Some swear by them some don't. I adjust in the cut.


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## Lee192233 (Jun 13, 2020)

rupedoggy said:


> Don't buy cheap saws


My price of entry into my MS180 was $0. I also have a 026 and MS460. I've used the 180 for 8 years without a problem. I figured it would be fun to tinker with it a little. For $30 and a little time I gave it adjustability and a bit more power. If anything serious happens to it I will part it out.


Jasonrkba said:


> Tachs are subjective. Some swear by them some don't. I adjust in the cut.


I got a tach because I wasn't confident in what I was hearing. I quickly figured out I had my saws way too rich. Just gave me some confidence in leaning them out. Now I adjust mostly by ear. I just use a tach to confirm what I'm hearing now.
Lee


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## WTO (Jun 24, 2020)

Finally got around to putting the WT-215 on last night. Even with a screw behind the throttle trigger you can't achieve WOT (probably 85-90%), because the throttle shaft bell crank hits the black piece shown. I assume its there as an insulator? Taking it off resolves the problem and does not appear to uncover anything that needs to be covered. Has anyone removed this to gain the necessary clearance.


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## Lee192233 (Jun 24, 2020)

WTO said:


> Finally got around to putting the WT-215 on last night. Even with a screw behind the throttle trigger you can't achieve WOT (probably 85-90%), because the throttle shaft bell crank hits the black piece shown. I assume its there as an insulator? Taking it off resolves the problem and does not appear to uncover anything that needs to be covered. Has anyone removed this to gain the necessary clearance.


I'll take a look at mine tonight. I don't recall that piece being in mine. My saw is probably 10-12 years old, maybe they didn't have it then.
Lee


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## Lee192233 (Jun 24, 2020)

Checked my 180 and there is no sign of that piece. I wonder what it's purpose is?
Lee


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## WTO (Jun 25, 2020)

Lee192233 said:


> Checked my 180 and there is no sign of that piece. I wonder what it's purpose is?
> Lee


I just left it out. I was going to cut out the area, where it hits, but was tired of messing with it. Getting the brass plug out of the impulse passage, on the new carb, was the most difficult part by far. I don't see how you guys are accessing the H/L screws once the saw is reassembled. I had to bolt the carb up with spacers, no air box, and run/adjust it. Once I put it all back together its too rich with the filter restricting it. I'll have to take the air box back off and lean it out some and it should be good to go. For anyone else researching this, a 3/8 plug is perfect to plug the sense hole in the air box. Also opened the muffler up some.


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## Lee192233 (Jun 25, 2020)

WTO said:


> I just left it out. I was going to cut out the area, where it hits, but was tired of messing with it. Getting the brass plug out of the impulse passage, on the new carb, was the most difficult part by far. I don't see how you guys are accessing the H/L screws once the saw is reassembled. I had to bolt the carb up with spacers, no air box, and run/adjust it. Once I put it all back together its too rich with the filter restricting it. I'll have to take the air box back off and lean it out some and it should be good to go. For anyone else researching this, a 3/8 plug is perfect to plug the sense hole in the air box. Also opened the muffler up some.
> View attachment 838326


I carefully estimated where the screws lined up with the cover and drilled holes.


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## Jawby (Feb 4, 2022)

Thank you to blsnelling and everyone for this info! I now have an adjustable wt215 on my ms180c having read, and reread this thread and watching the "sammish sawworks" youtube "how to ms170 ms180 w/walbro 215" video over and over. I ordered my carb via amazon and paid just short of $50 delivered... fast and genuine in 2022... is what it is. I registered with arbosite because of this thread... thank you all!


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## a. palmer jr. (Feb 4, 2022)

blsnelling said:


> I don't have any other carbs here to compare so I started looking at eBay pics. 021, 023, 025 carbs look like they might be a direct swap.
> 
> 290, 310, 390 carbs looks similiar as well. Looks like all they might require is reversing the choke rod.


Yep, they're a direct swap and adjustable as well. You might have to modify the side of the saw next to the air box in order to adjust the screws without removing the cover. I've done this several times and the 025 carb works great on an 018.


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## Mparko93 (Aug 14, 2022)

tmessenger said:


> They are closed until Feb 7 for the new year but here's the link.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/STIHL-Chain...778?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af487d722


I know it's been a while since this was posted, but any chance you have the name of the store you got this part from? The link is inactive and I really want to get a carb that will pop straight in! Cheers


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## GenXer (Aug 14, 2022)

Mparko93 said:


> I know it's been a while since this was posted, but any chance you have the name of the store you got this part from? The link is inactive and I really want to get a carb that will pop straight in! Cheers


Farmertec.com has them.


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