# The American chestnut



## dvmcmrhp52 (Aug 26, 2008)

American chestnut trees have been all but wiped out in years gone by, but there is a new focus on replanting blight resistant strains with limited sources of planting stock.

We've found a local source for naturally resistant trees, and in fact used to own some property with one lonely, but healthy and mature American chestnut tree in New York state. (so they do exist occasionally)

Is anyone planting and or cultivating these trees?

Do you have any sources of stock?

Would you or have you recommended the planting of blight resistant Chestnut trees to clients?

(we've planted one that is from a local, resistant tree, and are waiting to see the results.)


Thanks.


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## B-Edwards (Aug 28, 2008)

I have found two in the last 15 years that caught my attention. One was on the eastern devide, Blue Ridge Moutains over looking Stone Moutain NC. It was 30 feet tall an was developing swelling at the base as well as splitting there. I havent been back to it in 7 years? This probly doesnt help you but I wanted to say that I have seen many but only two that were impressive (to me) in size.


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## dvmcmrhp52 (Aug 28, 2008)

The lonely tree I had in New York state, was around 30-40 ft tall, with no taper and aprox. 24" in diameter. It was producing a small quantity of nuts, and I did some light clearing around it. Never got to see the results, but it's the best one I've seen so far.

Supposedly the forester I was working with at the time ,knew of one in a neighboring county that was bigger.


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## S Mc (Sep 3, 2008)

I thought this was an interesting topic so I googled "Blight Resistant American Chestnut trees" to see what was going on in our world. The first article I came across was from Cornell Coooperative Ext planting a commerative tree. I have tried to attach the link. If either of you are in this area, or know of anyone who is, can you drive by this tree and see if it is really volcano mulched??? 

These trees are reportedly shallow rooted and with the current recommendations of preparing a planting hole wide, not deep, I'm not sure where they came up with a "hearty 3000 lb root system". But that is beside the point.

I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and thinking maybe they planted it really, really high. But...

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/May08/chestnut.html

Sylvia


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## jrizman (Sep 6, 2008)

There is a lot being done by the american chestnut foundation:
http://www.acf.org/find_a_tree.php

they are planting them on reclaimed mine sites in a variety of coal bearing states in the east. research findings are positive. you can get seedlings too, they are actually backcrosses (15/16ths).

I would love to have a big one on my property someday!


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## 046 (Sep 6, 2008)

found a big american chestnut tree in Tulsa... it throws off fertile nuts... so there much be another chestnut tree close by...


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## dvmcmrhp52 (Sep 6, 2008)

S Mc said:


> I thought this was an interesting topic so I googled "Blight Resistant American Chestnut trees" to see what was going on in our world. The first article I came across was from Cornell Coooperative Ext planting a commerative tree. I have tried to attach the link. If either of you are in this area, or know of anyone who is, can you drive by this tree and see if it is really volcano mulched???
> 
> These trees are reportedly shallow rooted and with the current recommendations of preparing a planting hole wide, not deep, I'm not sure where they came up with a "hearty 3000 lb root system". But that is beside the point.
> 
> ...




Looks like the politicians planted that one.


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## dvmcmrhp52 (Sep 6, 2008)

jrizman said:


> There is a lot being done by the american chestnut foundation:
> http://www.acf.org/find_a_tree.php
> 
> they are planting them on reclaimed mine sites in a variety of coal bearing states in the east. research findings are positive. you can get seedlings too, they are actually backcrosses (15/16ths).
> ...




Ya, the chestnut foundation is really pushing it, and with good cause.


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## dvmcmrhp52 (Sep 6, 2008)

046 said:


> found a big american chestnut tree in Tulsa... it throws off fertile nuts... so there much be another chestnut tree close by...




Maybe you should check that tree for blight, and if it's clean, plant some of those nuts.


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## 046 (Sep 6, 2008)

it's clean .. no blight... yes... those nuts should be planted

spoke with the american chestnut foundation.... seems there's 2-3 surviving mature trees in most every state. 

seems the tulsa tree is blight resistant... there were many chestnut trees in tulsa at one time....



dvmcmrhp52 said:


> Maybe you should check that tree for blight, and if it's clean, plant some of those nuts.


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## rbtree (Sep 6, 2008)

046 said:


> it's clean .. no blight... yes... those nuts should be planted
> 
> spoke with the american chestnut foundation.... seems there's 2-3 surviving mature trees in most every state.
> 
> seems the tulsa tree is blight resistant... there were many chestnut trees in tulsa at one time....



The American co Champions are/were in Washington, as there were never many chesnut out here, I believe because the blight never made it--kinda like it took ages for DED to make it to the PNW. Well, it's here, and killing elms like crazy. 

I said "were" because, in 2002, I took photos of one of the champ chesnuts, which was 75% dead at that time. In a rural setting, and I didn't talk to anyone as to what was killing it....blight, don't know? An awesome tree in its day, close to 90 feet wide by tall, and 7 feet on the butt....


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## buzz sawyer (Sep 6, 2008)

*Blight Dormancy?*

Forgive my ignorance - 

Does anyone know how long the blight can remain viable? I'm wondering if the "resistant" trees are not resistant - just never actually had contact with the blight. How can a tree be tested for resistance? If the blight-stricken areas were not near enough to certain trees, does or can it go dormant? If we begin propagating these trees, could the blight come out of dormancy, and kill the remaining specimens that weren't really resistant?


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## PA Plumber (Sep 6, 2008)

buzz sawyer said:


> Forgive my ignorance -
> 
> Does anyone know how long the blight can remain viable? I'm wondering if the "resistant" trees are not resistant - just never actually had contact with the blight. How can a tree be tested for resistance? If the blight-stricken areas were not near enough to certain trees, does or can it go dormant? If we begin propagating these trees, could the blight come out of dormancy, and kill the remaining specimens that weren't really resistant?




I understand Oak trees are carriers for the blight that affects the Amercian Chestnut trees.

We have a small grove on our place. They get to about 6" dbh and die off. They do produce fertile nuts. So far, all are pretty rough looking.


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## moray (Sep 6, 2008)

buzz sawyer said:


> Forgive my ignorance -
> 
> Does anyone know how long the blight can remain viable? I'm wondering if the "resistant" trees are not resistant - just never actually had contact with the blight. How can a tree be tested for resistance? If the blight-stricken areas were not near enough to certain trees, does or can it go dormant? If we begin propagating these trees, could the blight come out of dormancy, and kill the remaining specimens that weren't really resistant?



The blight fungus doesn't need chestnut trees to survive. I survives just fine as a saprophyte, living in woodpiles and whatnot, and it is now apparently well-entrenched throughout the native range of the chestnut. 

A popular misconception evident in this thread is that some native trees are actually blight resistant. Your speculation that such trees simply never were attacked by the blight is almost certainly correct. The American Chestnut Foundation, which is running a giant breeding program in a number of Eastern states, never talks about natural resistance to the blight. The breeding program depends, in fact, on the relatively low probability that any particular tree will succumb to the blight in any particular year. Most of the trees in a breeding orchard will survive the 6 or 8 years necessary to reach maturity and start setting fruit. 

Part of the breeding program involves challenging mature trees with the blight by directly innoculating them through a small hole bored in the trunk. Pure American trees never survive this treatment even though their parents were the best natural specimens that could be found in the wild. 

I am growing a few in my yard in the hopes that a couple may reach 10 years of age, reach the size of an apple tree, and give me several crops of nuts.


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## S Mc (Sep 6, 2008)

I, too, had heard that "resistance" in some C. dentata was more a matter of being isolated from the causal fungus. These questions had me reaching for Sinclair's Diseases of Trees and Shrubs. 

Evidently, when a limb or tree dies, the fungus grows into bark beyond the lesion and sporulates there as a saprobe for 2 years or longer. Certainly in that time insects and birds (which are typical airborne vectors) can spread the fungus even further afield. This in addition to other susceptible species in the Fagaceae family.

Chestnut trees resist _Cryphonectria parasitica_ in several ways. (Again, from Sinclair). Their bark produces chitinases and enzyme inhibitors that suppress the parasite, forming a zone of lignified cells and subsequently a cork barrier around a lesion. These responses proceed faster and more effectively in resistant than in highly susceptible trees. In resistant plants, this fungus causes most damage to those trees which are stressed. So we shouldn't confuse "resistant" with "immune". They are simply able to survive the attack.

Resistance in the Chinese chestnut is apparently controlled by two unlinked genes. Breeders are obtaining resistant hybrids, transferring resistance genes into the genetic background of American chestnut by producing successive backcross generations. They are anticipating producing seeds adapted to various geographic regions by 2015.

There is also a cross, the Dunstan Hybrid chestnut, which has been under development since the 50s. They are apparently still blight-free and producing crops of sweet nuts. This at Chestnut Hill Nursery in Alachua, FL.

Sylvia


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## 046 (Sep 6, 2008)

hmmm interesting theory.... that ALL American chestnut tree have zero blight resistance... 

the blight free tree in Tulsa is mature ... good sized... throwing off fertile nuts and surrounded by mature oak trees. 

it'd be hard to imagine how this tree managed to stay isolated from blight with all the oak around it. 

it's a fact tulsa.. used to have all sorts of chestnut trees... they all died off except for this one and one other one close-by. there may be others in the tulsa area, but I'm not aware of it....



moray said:


> The blight fungus doesn't need chestnut trees to survive. I survives just fine as a saprophyte, living in woodpiles and whatnot, and it is now apparently well-entrenched throughout the native range of the chestnut.
> 
> A popular misconception evident in this thread is that some native trees are actually blight resistant. Your speculation that such trees simply never were attacked by the blight is almost certainly correct. The American Chestnut Foundation, which is running a giant breeding program in a number of Eastern states, never talks about natural resistance to the blight. The breeding program depends, in fact, on the relatively low probability that any particular tree will succumb to the blight in any particular year. Most of the trees in a breeding orchard will survive the 6 or 8 years necessary to reach maturity and start setting fruit.
> 
> ...


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## buzz sawyer (Sep 6, 2008)

Wow - very informative - thanks!


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## fubar2 (Sep 6, 2008)

dvmcmrhp52 said:


> American chestnut trees have been all but wiped out in years gone by, but there is a new focus on replanting blight resistant strains with limited sources of planting stock.
> 
> We've found a local source for naturally resistant trees, and in fact used to own some property with one lonely, but healthy and mature American chestnut tree in New York state. (so they do exist occasionally)
> 
> ...



You may want to poke around the Ohio DNR website. There was talk about a nursery in a north central state park. Dont know what came out of it.


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## moray (Sep 7, 2008)

S Mc said:


> ...So we shouldn't confuse "resistant" with "immune". They are simply able to survive the attack.
> Sylvia



This is probably the right way to say it. Some trees succumb more rapidly than others, and so may be slightly more resistant. Big healthy trees, on the other hand, have probably never been attacked. The best evidence that American trees cannot survive an attack is the experience of the breeding program. Challenged trees are evaluated a few months after innoculation to see how large the canker has grown. Pure Chinese trees are the best--the canker remains small and the tree walls off the fungus. Pure American trees are worst--the canker is much larger and doesn't stop expanding. Hybrids can fall anywhere between the two. The best hybrids are assumed to still have both (or maybe 3) resistance genes donated by the original Chinese ancestor, but hybrid resistance, as one might expect, is never as good as that in a pure Chinese tree. The best hybrid, after all, has only half the resistance genes of a pure Chinese tree, as the other half came from the American parent.



046 said:


> hmmm interesting theory.... that ALL American chestnut tree have zero blight resistance...
> 
> it'd be hard to imagine how this tree managed to stay isolated from blight with all the oak around it...



It probably didn't stay isolated, it just wasn't attacked. I got to walk around a breeding orchard in Maine last fall with some of the folks from the Maine chapter of TACF and with Dr. Fred Hebard, the chief scientist working on the recovery program. His quick eye picked out a blighted branchlet on a little 10-foot tree, and he cut it off with a pocket knife. Red fruiting bodies from the fungus were plainly visible on the bark of the afflicted branch. But he treated the episode as perfectly normal and showed no concern for the fate of the rest of the trees. The blight is everywhere, as the TACF people tell me. Apparently it is not that easy for the fungus to get underneath the bark and begin its attack. This will happen to only a small proportion of trees in any given year--if this were not true the breeding orchards could never produce fruiting trees. A lucky tree can make it for 30 years or more. But if the fungus does establish itself under the bark, the tree will succumb just like any other. It's all a matter of when your number comes up.


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## buzz sawyer (Sep 7, 2008)

Thanks again - some very enlightening posts!

Next question - how does the wood of the Chinese species compare to the American species?


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## 046 (Sep 7, 2008)

a few pic's of mature tulsa chestnut tree in bloom... taken last season.


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## moray (Sep 7, 2008)

That's quite a specimen, 046. You should spend half an hour one of these days and track down the neighboring tree that is supplying the pollen. Maybe it's even bigger!

The wood of the American chestnut was prized for various purposes and widely used. I know nothing about the wood of the Chinese chestnut, but the _form _of the Chinese tree is one of its attibutes that the breeders don't like--it is way too branchy, like an apple tree, and doesn't become the tall straight forest giant that the American tree does. Clearly the tall straight tree is going to be more useful for lumber. I like the spreading form, myself, and expect that my trees will adopt that form as they are all out in the open.


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## buzz sawyer (Sep 7, 2008)

moray said:


> That's quite a specimen, 046. You should spend half an hour one of these days and track down the neighboring tree that is supplying the pollen. Maybe it's even bigger!
> 
> The wood of the American chestnut was prized for various purposes and widely used. I know nothing about the wood of the Chinese chestnut, but the _form _of the Chinese tree is one of its attibutes that the breeders don't like--it is way too branchy, like an apple tree, and doesn't become the tall straight forest giant that the American tree does. Clearly the tall straight tree is going to be more useful for lumber. I like the spreading form, myself, and expect that my trees will adopt that form as they are all out in the open.



You took the words right out of my mouth. We have a row of about 12 Chinese Chestnuts on some property. They are healthy but have branched out exactly as you say. Not really much straight wood in any of them but they are probably 24" dbh. They're at least 50 years old.


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## dvmcmrhp52 (Sep 10, 2008)

Wow, I hadn't been here for a few days and checked on this, and I like the discussion.

It's late, and I want to respond to some things, but not right now. There's a lot of good info here.


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## dvmcmrhp52 (Sep 10, 2008)

moray said:


> The blight fungus doesn't need chestnut trees to survive. I survives just fine as a saprophyte, living in woodpiles and whatnot, and it is now apparently well-entrenched throughout the native range of the chestnut.
> 
> A popular misconception evident in this thread is that some native trees are actually blight resistant. Your speculation that such trees simply never were attacked by the blight is almost certainly correct. The American Chestnut Foundation, which is running a giant breeding program in a number of Eastern states, never talks about natural resistance to the blight. The breeding program depends, in fact, on the relatively low probability that any particular tree will succumb to the blight in any particular year. Most of the trees in a breeding orchard will survive the 6 or 8 years necessary to reach maturity and start setting fruit.
> 
> ...




I have to disagree with the statement that there is a relatively low probability that a tree will be infected with blight.
At least here......

Pennsylvania got hit rather hard with blight and it destroyed vast quantities of chestnut trees. Chestnut at one time was the number 1 hardwood coming from this state. That's all history now, even though Pennsylvania is still one of, if not still the number 1 hardwood producing state in the country.

I would tend to agree that healthy trees found in areas where blight was not prevalent could very well have never been exposed, but in areas where it was particularly ravenous, it just doesn't make sense that healthy trees have no resistance. That's just a theory though, and the jury is still out on the resistance deal.

Part of the breeding program and its innoculation of young chestnuts is simply to get to nut production, and replant those seeds for another generation that is slightly less succeptable to blight than the previous. Not unlike vaccines production.


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## dvmcmrhp52 (Sep 10, 2008)

fubar2 said:


> You may want to poke around the Ohio DNR website. There was talk about a nursery in a north central state park. Dont know what came out of it.




Thanks, I'll do that.


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## dvmcmrhp52 (Sep 10, 2008)

moray said:


> This is probably the right way to say it. Some trees succumb more rapidly than others, and so may be slightly more resistant. Big healthy trees, on the other hand, have probably never been attacked. The best evidence that American trees cannot survive an attack is the experience of the breeding program. Challenged trees are evaluated a few months after innoculation to see how large the canker has grown. Pure Chinese trees are the best--the canker remains small and the tree walls off the fungus. Pure American trees are worst--the canker is much larger and doesn't stop expanding. Hybrids can fall anywhere between the two. The best hybrids are assumed to still have both (or maybe 3) resistance genes donated by the original Chinese ancestor, but hybrid resistance, as one might expect, is never as good as that in a pure Chinese tree. The best hybrid, after all, has only half the resistance genes of a pure Chinese tree, as the other half came from the American parent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## dvmcmrhp52 (Sep 10, 2008)

buzz sawyer said:


> Thanks again - some very enlightening posts!
> 
> Next question - how does the wood of the Chinese species compare to the American species?





My understanding is that the quality of wood from the chinese chestnut is not up to the quality of the American, but I couldn't testify to that. Part of the problem as has been mentioned, is the fact that it is a more branching tree.


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## moray (Sep 10, 2008)

dvmcmrhp52 said:


> I have to disagree with the statement that there is a relatively low probability that a tree will be infected with blight.
> At least here......
> 
> Pennsylvania got hit rather hard with blight and it destroyed vast quantities of chestnut trees...



I don't want to quibble too much about the fine points, but it is worth making the following point. When the blight was first roaring through the eastern forests killing millions of chestnut trees, blight fungus spores were probably amazingly abundant in those same forests, possibly hundreds or thousands of times more abundant than today. Just because the fungus today is "everywhere" doesn't mean it is common. The likelihood that any particular tree will get infected in any particular year, all other things being equal, would be proportional to the abundance of blight spores in the local environment. The original epidemic was like a forest fire rushing down the Appalachians--any tree in the way was very likely to get burned. The fire is now out, but there are still a few smoldering embers here and there. Any tree in the area has a pretty good chance now of not getting burned. But give the tree enough time and even low odds will catch up to it.


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## dvmcmrhp52 (Sep 10, 2008)

moray said:


> I don't want to quibble too much about the fine points, but it is worth making the following point. When the blight was first roaring through the eastern forests killing millions of chestnut trees, blight fungus spores were probably amazingly abundant in those same forests, possibly hundreds or thousands of times more abundant than today. Just because the fungus today is "everywhere" doesn't mean it is common. The likelihood that any particular tree will get infected in any particular year, all other things being equal, would be proportional to the abundance of blight spores in the local environment. The original epidemic was like a forest fire rushing down the Appalachians--any tree in the way was very likely to get burned. The fire is now out, but there are still a few smoldering embers here and there. Any tree in the area has a pretty good chance now of not getting burned. But give the tree enough time and even low odds will catch up to it.



I guess I can accept that.


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## doorstop (Sep 29, 2008)

We have two chestnut trees that we started from seed. My wife put a half dozen chestnuts in the ground about 10 years age.. They all started and when they were 4-5 feet tall moved from starting place. Two were planted in our back yard and the rest in a wooded area. The two started making nuts last year. The funny thing is that they ripen about a month apart.


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## Wood Scrounge (Oct 6, 2008)

When I was growing up my grandparents would tell me stories how chestnuts had sustained them through one particularly hard winter on their farm in northern PA. a few years ago I went to the land were the farm once stood, I found quite a few small chestnut trees.


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## S Mc (Oct 7, 2008)

Wood scrounge, do you have any family pictures that might reveal some of the old trees? How special those would be to hold on to. It is so easy to not realize the significance of what might be in the background in the family photo album.

Just a thought....

Sylvia


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## Wood Scrounge (Oct 9, 2008)

S Mc said:


> Wood scrounge, do you have any family pictures that might reveal some of the old trees? How special those would be to hold on to. It is so easy to not realize the significance of what might be in the background in the family photo album.
> 
> Just a thought....
> 
> Sylvia



I did actually find a black and white one a few years ago, it's a little hard to make out that they are indeed Chestnuts but grandma had written on the back "Chestnut trees".


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## dvmcmrhp52 (Nov 29, 2008)

Wood Scrounge said:


> When I was growing up my grandparents would tell me stories how chestnuts had sustained them through one particularly hard winter on their farm in northern PA. a few years ago I went to the land were the farm once stood, I found quite a few small chestnut trees.





Where abouts in northern Pa.?

I spend a good bit of time up north.


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## Wood Scrounge (Dec 1, 2008)

Close to union dale, near Elk mountian, the family owned quite a bit of land up there as I understand it.


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## Wood Scrounge (Oct 29, 2009)

Interesting article on "new" chestnut trees.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/fron...apling__mighty_hope_at_Independence_Hall.html


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## NC4TN (Oct 29, 2009)

See my previous post here:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=111518

Like the post says though, they get 8 to 15 years old and them die out, although I have since spotted 3 more on another place in the mountains that I own, with a 100 or so burrs laying on the ground. The genetics appear to be in place if they can develop enough. 

I might mention that the trees that I have found that have matured enough to produce burrs have been on a WESTERN facing slope. Dryness may have something to do with this. 

Hats off to the folks who are doing the successful outcrossing.


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## Geese (Oct 29, 2009)

The folks at the place below are doing some interesitng things with chestnuts and hazel nuts. 

My folks bought some Hazels from them a few years back. They are producing at this time.


http://www.badgersett.com/


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## scubadude1188 (Nov 12, 2009)

There's a really good book on that talks about the history of the American Chestnut and everything that has been done to try to save it. The title is American Chestnut: Life, Death, and Rebirth of the Perfect Tree. I really enjoyed it and it gave me a new perspective on all of the invasive diseases and pests that are attaching our trees.


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