# Logging with 2 Wheel Drive Tractor



## Catfish Hunter (Sep 17, 2017)

I'm looking for advice on logging with a skidding winch and an older 2 wheel drive tractor. I'm looking at older 2 wheel drive tractors around 90 hp and I live in an area with steep hills in the woods. I'd like this tractor for field work and for skidding / possibly adding a loader for stacking logs, plowing etc.. I'm curious how these works for this type of operation with a good set of chains? Anyone doing this on steep terrain and any advice for learning in these conditions?


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## northmanlogging (Sep 17, 2017)

Steep ground and any kind of farm tractor isn't a healthy mix. Make sure you have a cage on it.

2 wheel drive skidding can be done, but everything has to be about perfect, enough weight on the rear wheels to prevent slipping, but still enough on the fronts to turn, a guy can use the steering brakes but its not an exact science.

And really 2 wheel drive tractors should stay on maintained trails or on flat ground, once you get off in the rough stuff, it don't take much to get really stuck


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## mesupra (Sep 17, 2017)

It's more work but if you can keep the tractor off the hill and use the winch you should be all set. A 90hp 2 wheel drive is a very capable machine. Just take it easy and slow until you get a sense of what the machines capabilities are. Around here 8000 grand can get you a really nice farm tractor with loader. 10,000 might get you a little old 4wd. If your ground is solid a big 2wd will get the job done no problem. Check out the 60s 70s internationals. People around here love the old hydros


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## madhatte (Sep 18, 2017)

I know a guy who does a lot of group thinning in 20-40 year old alder/fir mix on his 200-some acre property with a 40 horse Kubota and a 3-point arch. He gets it done, but it's not quick. His land is mostly flat but gets pretty wet in the winter (par for course on alder ground). It can absolutely be done, but it's not ideal. He'd be better served with an old Garrett skidder, but the Kubota is what he has.


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## mesupra (Sep 18, 2017)

The old ford tractors are built like bricks as well.


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## Ryan'smilling (Sep 18, 2017)

A skidding winch will be a huge benefit in the productivity and safety departments. Keeping that tractor on the trails will be crucial, and a winch allows you to do that. Steep terrain and farm tractors is a bad mix as has been mentioned, but if you have a ROPS and wear your seatbelt you might be able to make a go of it. Keep the twitches very small to begin with, and if there's ever a question, come back for a second trip instead of trying to take a bigger load. Also, tire chains will be a big help.


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## madhatte (Sep 18, 2017)

Ryan'smilling said:


> Keep the twitches very small to begin with, and if there's ever a question, come back for a second trip instead of trying to take a bigger load.



QFT


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## Catfish Hunter (Sep 19, 2017)

Great input thanks guys! Buy those mfwd tractors are hard to find. I'm torn between a 50 hp 4wd and a 90 hp 2wd. Should I hold out for 4wd?


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## hseII (Sep 19, 2017)

Catfish Hunter said:


> Great input thanks guys! Buy those mfwd tractors are hard to find. I'm torn between a 50 hp 4wd and a 90 hp 2wd. Should I hold out for 4wd?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



70hp 4wd.


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## Ryan'smilling (Sep 19, 2017)

Catfish Hunter said:


> Great input thanks guys! Buy those mfwd tractors are hard to find. I'm torn between a 50 hp 4wd and a 90 hp 2wd. Should I hold out for 4wd?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




It really depends. A 50 HP 4wd with a hydrostatic transmission or power shuttle will be MUCH handier for loader work. It'll also be a lot more nimble in the woods. Not necessarily more stable, though. For field work however, a 90 HP 2wd will work circles around a 50 HP machine. I have a 45 HP hydrostatic Kubota, and I absolutely love it, but if I wanted to pull a heavy disc all day, run a baler, pull a 10' batwing mower, etc, I'd be looking at some older American iron to add to the fleet. The two options you mention above are so different. Having both would be ideal. Otherwise, Heath's solution would be the next best option.


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## Catfish Hunter (Sep 19, 2017)

Ryan'smilling said:


> It really depends. A 50 HP 4wd with a hydrostatic transmission or power shuttle will be MUCH handier for loader work. It'll also be a lot more nimble in the woods. Not necessarily more stable, though. For field work however, a 90 HP 2wd will work circles around a 50 HP machine. I have a 45 HP hydrostatic Kubota, and I absolutely love it, but if I wanted to pull a heavy disc all day, run a baler, pull a 10' batwing mower, etc, I'd be looking at some older American iron to add to the fleet. The two options you mention above are so different. Having both would be ideal. Otherwise, Heath's solution would be the next best option.



Yeah it's hard to find a one machine compromise. I think I might go two wheel drive then some day a small skidder.


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## Brian72 (Sep 19, 2017)

I've skidded with 2 and 4wd tractors and I've come to one conclusion. Tractors are very sketchy in the woods! I'm not saying it can't be done but they can very quickly turn into a death trap on uneven ground. If you can keep the tractor on solid, level ground and let the winch do the work it's much safer. Tractor tires suck in the woods too so I'd say chains are a must. 

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## Sawyer Rob (Sep 19, 2017)

I do ALL of my logging with a FARM tractor and skidding winch, no problem at all...

I don't consider it sketchy at all, BUT it's NOT a skidder and I don't treat it like one. Rough ground ?, no problem at all.......just go sloooow and use your head!

SR


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## M.R. (Sep 19, 2017)

.
Might want to do a bit of research on these
Unimog's / capabilities.....attachments.
. 
Another question in reverse ......is how or what can be done
to adapt a small Skidder to the niche of your
farm operations....


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## Ryan'smilling (Sep 19, 2017)

M.R. said:


> View attachment 602596
> 
> .
> Might want to do a bit of research on these
> ...



Those things are cool, don't get me wrong, but they aren't for farming. You might be able to hook up PTO implements, or even a three point hitch, but there's no rear visibility, must be a terrible turning radius, and I don't think you're gonna do very well in soft ground pulling a disc. If I had unlimited funds though, I'd have one in my driveway for sure, though!


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## chucker (Sep 19, 2017)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I do ALL of my logging with a FARM tractor and skidding winch, no problem at all...
> 
> I don't consider it sketchy at all, BUT it's NOT a skidder and I don't treat it like one. Rough ground ?, no problem at all.......just go sloooow and use your head!
> 
> SR


! AGREED !


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## rwoods (Sep 19, 2017)

Don't log or farm for a living, but I believe the key word here was "steep". Logging in steep terrain with a farm tractor especially with normal farm tires is a recipe for disaster in my book. We typically lose a good man ever year around here while bush-hogging or cutting hay on some steep hill. Anyone who has skid and mowed with a farm tractor knows that skidding a load of logs is far more likely to roll a tractor than running a mower. Or pull it down a hill. Or push it down a hill. Or stand it on its end. Heck, skidders are designed to skid and they seem to be rolled regularly. I'll let the loggers speak as to how frequently and why. 

Ron


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## rwoods (Sep 19, 2017)

M.R. said:


> View attachment 602596
> 
> .
> Might want to do a bit of research on these
> ...



Always wanted a Unimog with a 20 speed box, triple dumper, rear 3 point hitch and front hydraulic winch. I have watched plenty of YouTube videos of skidder versions. Uncle Sam unloaded a bunch of these urban backhoes through GL and more seemed to be in pieces under the hood and in the cab than together - almost all had very few hours and miles. Not sure what the problems were - didn't see any bullet holes - but they must have been something wrong with them or the application. When I was a boy, J.L. Case imported Unimogs as farm tractors not sure why they didn't catch on. Maybe $$. Or too far ahead of the times as there were almost no 4wd tractors smaller than a big articulated monster of the day. Or maybe a 4020 could pull it backwards - don't know.

Still pretty cool machines.

Ron


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## Gologit (Sep 19, 2017)

rwoods said:


> Don't log or farm for a living, but I believe the key word here was "steep". Logging in steep terrain with a farm tractor especially with normal farm tires is a recipe for disaster in my book. We typically lose a good man ever year around here while bush-hogging or cutting hay on some steep hill. Anyone who has skid and mowed with a farm tractor knows that skidding a load of logs is far more likely to roll a tractor than running a mower. Or pull it down a hill. Or push it down a hill. Or stand it on its end. Heck, skidders are designed to skid and they seem to be rolled regularly. I'll let the loggers speak as to how frequently and why.
> 
> Ron



Well said. Almost everybody I know that've run a skidder for any length of time have rolled one over. You can also roll a feller-buncher, and I know first hand that it's possible to roll a Cat.
I've seen guys skid, or try to skid, with farm tractors. If they're lucky they usually scare themselves early on and then procede with some caution after that. We're talking about steep ground here.
The ones who wind up hurting themselves...or worse...are the ones who try just a little more side hill, or a little more steep ground, or bonus up that extra log, 'cause they've got away with it every time so far.
Eventually they don't get away with it. When it happens it happens fast. Then we read about them in the paper.


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## rwoods (Sep 20, 2017)

Gologit, you already know I play in the woods skidding with a small 4wd tractor and that I am not dissing those who use farm tractors. I expect to have a winch on mine in a few weeks to pull tops from ravines to the road. 

It is also no news to you that even with short and wide industrial tires, a stump, log or rock can tip it at slow speed on relatively flat ground. Steepen the ground a little, throw in a stump or something else I didn't see, or just bust a tire, and I am a goner. On true steep ground no extra hazards are needed. A bigger tractor compounds the risk by raising the center of gravity and upping the size of the load. 

Just for fun I check CL regularly for used skidders around here. There are usually several every week - very few appear to have stayed upright. Almost the same for dozers used for logging. It is easy to spot a logger's dozer from a dirt mover's and I am not referring to whether or not it has a winch or a cage. You know what I mean. 

Good to hear from you.

Ron


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## Catfish Hunter (Sep 20, 2017)

Given my experience, the terrain, I think my logging with the tractor will be a start but with a focus on keeping that thing upright and winching from good safe locations. Thanks for all the input guys!


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## Brian72 (Sep 20, 2017)

Maybe a few pulley rigs to help winch out of real crappy terrain. Much safer and easier. I just personally don't like tractors in the woods unless absolutely necessary. Had a few scary experiences and that was enough for me.

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## JTM (Sep 20, 2017)

Ditto on tractors in the woods. Holes and stumps can make for a bad day. If you are skidding logs make sure you use those tongs that attach to the lift arms, keeps the center low. Don't use a boom pole.


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## Gologit (Sep 20, 2017)

I think what gets a lot of the tractor-skidding guys is not being able to turn loose of the load quickly. 
If you're working side hill, the logs can swing down the hill sideways and pull you along with them. The back of the tractor gets pulled around and over you go.
If you're skidding straight up the hill the logs can hang up and pull you over backwards.
Being able to get rid of the load or slack off on your cable instantly is key. I think if I was going to use a farm tractor I'd invest in a logging winch. Tieing hard and fast is a bad idea.


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## Ryan'smilling (Sep 20, 2017)

I think skidding winches dramatically increase both how safely you can log with a tractor and how effectively you can log with a tractor. After owning one for a couple of years I'd hate to have to skid logs without it. They're absolutely worth the money.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 20, 2017)

I started using a beat to Hel ford 9n, 6, 3 day weekends to skid one load of hemlock on relatively flat ground. 

this was in 2008-9? timber prices where in the toilet so 6 weekends of back breaking work and we got about 3/4 of a full load, and split $800 3 ways.

Nearly got myself killed on several occasions. I clearly remember looking straight up over the hood at a pair ravens that seemed to be laughing at me.

Broke the tractor twice, the last time pretty much being the end of the hydraulics on it.

It can be done, and a more modern tractor is going to have a better time of it, but go into it eyes open. 

A few years later, after building a yarder and a bunch of other ill advised (read ego) attempts I bought a proper skidder. On the same ground (I've cut wood in there 3-4 times now, and clear cut the neighbor, as well as a bunch of dirt work) In roughly 6 weekends we got something like 14 loads, I paid off the skidder and got myself insured and what not, all while still splitting things 3 ways, Timber prices where a little better but still not much better then starvation. They are 3-4 times what they where then.


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## ArtB (Sep 20, 2017)

_ ford 9n _OMG, old memories

You ran a 9N here in WA! And you are still alive to tell about it? Can believe the 'nearly.. killed' part. 

I used a 9N in FLAT central IL in the late 1950's for what passed for 'logging' back there. No ROPS or FOPS on it. Nearly flipped it backwards twice myself trying to just pull a brush pile. Anything over a 2% grade in central IL is called a big hill. 

Out here in Cascade foothills, once (when still young and indestructible) rolled an old D2 on it's side and also slid a tracked JD 440 on its side part way down a hill, thankfull for the cages!. NO WAY would I get on a 9N in the hills, or in any woods without the FOPs. Heck, in 1958, did not even know what FOPs was! 

My cousin has a full section of farmland near Beardstown. There is a small corner near a stream with a patch of trees, they call it the TIMBER !


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## hseII (Sep 20, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> I started using a beat to Hel ford 9n, 6, 3 day weekends to skid one load of hemlock on relatively flat ground.
> 
> this was in 2008-9? timber prices where in the toilet so 6 weekends of back breaking work and we got about 3/4 of a full load, and split $800 3 ways.
> 
> ...



In a nutshell, you just explained the Multiplier- Weight.

A Power Shift 440B weighs 14,200lbs
A Syncro- Power 440B weighs 12,250lbs

A 9n Ford weighs around 2,400lbs. 
Idk what attachments you were using, but I'm sure it wasn't much.


My M7060HD w/ 1154 loader weighs right close to 6,500 lbs.

I plan to add 800lbs with a FARMI winch.

With another 800lbs including my loader Grapple, that's still only 8,100lbs. 

Thank You for the Perspective.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 20, 2017)

It had calcium... and a front loader

So it was like 4500 soaking wet...

No cage though.

Never said i was real smart


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## JTM (Sep 20, 2017)

One thing I've had happen to me when skidding with a tractor is that when the log slid down sideways the butt end rode up the back of the tire and said, "hello!". I believe that running a capstan off the hydraulics to position the logs on a more level route would be better since you can really control how much pull you have with just your hands, it's just a matter of letting go of the rope.


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## Ryan'smilling (Sep 20, 2017)

JTM said:


> One thing I've had happen to me when skidding with a tractor is that when the log slid down sideways the butt end rode up the back of the tire and said, "hello!". I believe that running a capstan off the hydraulics to position the logs on a more level route would be better since you can really control how much pull you have with just your hands, it's just a matter of letting go of the rope.



A three point winch operates the same way. A rope that the operator pulls engages a friction plate type clutch to turn the drum. You have very fine control over the amount of pull, and can instantly drop the load if need be.


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## hseII (Sep 21, 2017)

I'm Looking at the FARMI brand & wondering if they have any real competition in the 11,00lb + pulling class....
Specifically the 51 & 61 models. 
Which do y'all run?


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## Ryan'smilling (Sep 21, 2017)

hseII said:


> I'm Looking at the FARMI brand & wondering if they have any real competition in the 11,00lb + pulling class....
> Specifically the 51 & 61 models.
> Which do y'all run?



I haven't personally looked at any of them other than the Farmi 351 that I own, but there's several worth checking out. Wallenstein, Uniforest, Tajifun, and Norse would all be on my list. I don't know if they all have on in that size, but I bet most of them do. Sawyer Rob's Wallenstein looks like it's holding up pretty well on a similar size tractor to your Kubota.

When I bought my 351, it was the only one I'd seen on Craigslist that was priced reasonably and that hadn't used hard for 40 years. I snatched it up naturally, but I was worried that it would be undersized for my tractor. I use it on my Kubota MX4700 (38 PTO HP, about 5500# with the loader and beet juice). Even with only 7700# of line pull, that winch will manhandle that Kubota if you're not paying attention. I mention that so you have a data point when you're deciding between the 501/601 size winches. A smaller winch gives you more three point capacity for lifting logs, but less line pull. If you can't take advantage of the extra pull anyway though, a smaller winch is better.

Edited to add: congrats on taking the plunge, by the way! You'll wonder how on earth you got along without that winch.


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## hseII (Sep 21, 2017)

Ryan'smilling said:


> I haven't personally looked at any of them other than the Farmi 351 that I own, but there's several worth checking out. Wallenstein, Uniforest, Tajifun, and Norse would all be on my list. I don't know if they all have on in that size, but I bet most of them do. Sawyer Rob's Wallenstein looks like it's holding up pretty well on a similar size tractor to your Kubota.
> 
> When I bought my 351, it was the only one I'd seen on Craigslist that was priced reasonably and that hadn't used hard for 40 years. I snatched it up naturally, but I was worried that it would be undersized for my tractor. I use it on my Kubota MX4700 (38 PTO HP, about 5500# with the loader and beet juice). Even with only 7700# of line pull, that winch will manhandle that Kubota if you're not paying attention. I mention that so you have a data point when you're deciding between the 501/601 size winches. A smaller winch gives you more three point capacity for lifting logs, but less line pull. If you can't take advantage of the extra pull anyway though, a smaller winch is better.
> 
> Edited to add: congrats on taking the plunge, by the way! You'll wonder how on earth you got along without that winch.



Thank You.

I skimmed by the Wallenstein; I've got a small chipper of their's, & it's meh. It's also weighs less than the others. 

That's probably why I haven't seriously considered the Canadian brand...


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## Ryan'smilling (Sep 21, 2017)

hseII said:


> Thank You.
> 
> I skimmed by the Wallenstein; I've got a small chipper of their's, & it's meh. It's also weighs less than the others.
> 
> That's probably why I haven't seriously considered the Canadian brand...



Yeah, Farmi has made a name for themselves in skidding winches, and for good reason. They're also right at the top of the pack for price, but after a few times using it, you'll realize that they're worth way more than what they cost anyway, so it's probably a wash. They certainly hold their value very well too. 

You gonna get the remote control option Heath?


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## hseII (Sep 21, 2017)

Ryan'smilling said:


> Yeah, Farmi has made a name for themselves in skidding winches, and for good reason. They're also right at the top of the pack for price, but after a few times using it, you'll realize that they're worth way more than what they cost anyway, so it's probably a wash. They certainly hold their value very well too.
> 
> You gonna get the remote control option Heath?



I asked about it originally, but was advised against it because of 
1. It's a $3,500 upgrade
2. Folks have been known to turn their tractors over using them because they weren't paying attention to their tractor's conditions during a pull.


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## Sawyer Rob (Sep 21, 2017)

A skidding winch IS a good investment...

My Wallenstein has been very good to me, allowing me to pull some quite big sticks up out of ravines that would have been very hard to get out, without it,







To me, adding a skidding winch is a huge step in making "skidding with a tractor" much safer.

SR


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## hseII (Sep 21, 2017)

Sawyer Rob said:


> A skidding winch IS a good investment...
> 
> My Wallenstein has been very good to me, allowing me to pull some quite big sticks up out of ravines that would have been very hard to get out, without it,
> 
> ...



Which model & what tractor?


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## Sawyer Rob (Sep 21, 2017)

hseII said:


> Which model & what tractor?


 FX90 skidding winch, 60 pto hp Agco farm tractor...






SR


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## Ryan'smilling (Sep 21, 2017)

hseII said:


> I asked about it originally, but was advised against it because of
> 1. It's a $3,500 upgrade
> 2. Folks have been known to turn their tractors over using them because they weren't paying attention to their tractor's conditions during a pull.




They do seem handy for some situations, but no way would I pay $3500 for it! And yeah, tipping the tractor seems more likely if you're back by the log. I read here or on FF a few years ago that when winching, you should keep your eyes on the tractor, not the log. Check that the cable is still coming in, and that the tractor isn't moving. If those things are good, then the log doesn't need to be worried about.


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## ArtB (Sep 21, 2017)

As far as 2 wheel farm tractor vs crawler, :

Once you've had tracks, you'll never go back! 



BTW, that paraphrases the controversy over use of firewood vs. coal in steam engines <G>


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## hseII (Sep 21, 2017)

ArtB said:


> As far as 2 wheel farm tractor vs crawler, :
> 
> Once you've had tracks, you'll never go back!
> 
> ...









My Youngest on my Grandfather's 8.


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## JTM (Sep 21, 2017)

Sawyer Rob said:


> A skidding winch IS a good investment...
> 
> My Wallenstein has been very good to me, allowing me to pull some quite big sticks up out of ravines that would have been very hard to get out, without it,
> 
> ...


I want one.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 21, 2017)

ArtB said:


> As far as 2 wheel farm tractor vs crawler, :
> 
> Once you've had tracks, you'll never go back!
> 
> ...



completely off topic...

many years ago I desperately wanted to be a professional black smith tried every thing I could think of or hack together to get fire wood to burn hot enough to forge with. 

Spent a good 9 years (from age 11 to roughly 20) off and on hammering on an old digger bar to turn it into a sword (nerd...) then one day I acquired a bag of coal...

2 hours and some BSing later the whole thing was nearly done. Later that day I finally figured out forge welding... 

I haven't messed with anything but coal in the forge since. tried some coal coke but meh... coal is cheaper and cokes up just fine anyway.

The moral of this story is that that particular project has yet to be finished, mostly from lack of time or interest (its art whatya want wicker), But get the right tools and feed them proper...


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## rwoods (Sep 21, 2017)

Those 3 point tractor winches look pretty slick but bigger ones seem pretty pricey. Couldn't find one today but occasionally little Deeres similar to your Missy show up in the same price range. Of course they require some wrenching and something bigger to haul it on than a small tractor needs unless your wood is in your backyard.

Ron


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## northmanlogging (Sep 21, 2017)

On the way home yesterday, some good ole boy had a mini tractor with back blade crammed into the bed of an F150 back blade hanging out into oncoming traffic...

They at least where not on the freeway.


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## Sawyer Rob (Sep 21, 2017)

Yeaaa, every body and their brother makes a tinker toy tractor now...

The amazing part is, they cost as much as a "farm" tractor, but ya gotta keep up with the Jones', don't ya know!

SR


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## chucker (Sep 21, 2017)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Yeaaa, every body and their brother makes a tinker toy tractor now...
> 
> The amazing part is, they cost as much as a "farm" tractor, but ya gotta keep up with the Jones', don't ya know!
> 
> SR


I am keeping up! but just not as fast as the jones' or any one else .... but still faster then the one lagging behind me! lol


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## Ted Jenkins (Sep 22, 2017)

Tractors of any kind do not go up and down hills well. I have tried all kinds of skidders and they need flat ground just like all tractors. I am not referring to gentle grades as being a hill or slope. I bought a IH crawler with a 4 in 1 bucket a number of years ago thinking this thing would really get the job done wrong. It weighed about 20,000 lbs and could maybe come up a hill not too steep with 5 or 6,000 lbs. When it got to rocky ground just sparks. In dirt it would just spin out and dig holes. A rubber tired rig was not as good. That thing nearly killed me several times. I built a horse shoe type frame with some trailer wheels to get the front end of logs out of the dirt and wow. With my winch pulling logs out of canyons I could pull up to 20,000 per load straight up banks that were not too soft. My winch is comfortable at about 8,000 at a dead pull. If you are going to load logs on a truck or fifth wheel then the tractor is necessary, but winches get done what tractors can not. I built my winch starting with a 3 1/2 HP small gas engine then went to 10 HP and some mods. I use 600 feet of aircraft cable and I have a few sizes up to 7/16''. If you only need to go 100 to 150 feet down a hill then the tractor skidders should work well. Or set up a high lead providing that you have enough logs at one setting. A two wheel tractor get get plenty of work even if you need to add weights. Thanks


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## hseII (Sep 22, 2017)

Ted Jenkins said:


> Tractors of any kind do not go up and down hills well. I have tried all kinds of skidders and they need flat ground just like all tractors. I am not referring to gentle grades as being a hill or slope. I bought a IH crawler with a 4 in 1 bucket a number of years ago thinking this thing would really get the job done wrong. It weighed about 20,000 lbs and could maybe come up a hill not too steep with 5 or 6,000 lbs. When it got to rocky ground just sparks. In dirt it would just spin out and dig holes. A rubber tired rig was not as good. That thing nearly killed me several times. I built a horse shoe type frame with some trailer wheels to get the front end of logs out of the dirt and wow. With my winch pulling logs out of canyons I could pull up to 20,000 per load straight up banks that were not too soft. My winch is comfortable at about 8,000 at a dead pull. If you are going to load logs on a truck or fifth wheel then the tractor is necessary, but winches get done what tractors can not. I built my winch starting with a 3 1/2 HP small gas engine then went to 10 HP and some mods. I use 600 feet of aircraft cable and I have a few sizes up to 7/16''. If you only need to go 100 to 150 feet down a hill then the tractor skidders should work well. Or set up a high lead providing that you have enough logs at one setting. A two wheel tractor get get plenty of work even if you need to add weights. Thanks



Pics of the Horse Shoe Frame please.


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## Brian72 (Sep 22, 2017)

hseII said:


> Pics of the Horse Shoe Frame please.


Here you go hsell. I can't get pics right now but this will give you an idea. My buddy has one we hitch up to a 4 wheeler or side by side and it works great. The center bar angles up soon it lifts the front up as you pull forward. Sorry for the crappy drawing. Thanks for bringing this up Ted.

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## Brian72 (Sep 22, 2017)

hseII said:


> Pics of the Horse Shoe Frame please.


Something like this hsell. The center bar angles up so it lifts the front of the log as you pull forward. We hook it to a 4 wheeler or side by side and it works great. My buddy has one. I'll get pics when I can but this gives you an idea.





Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk


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## hseII (Sep 22, 2017)

Brian72 said:


> Something like this hsell. The center bar angles up so it lifts the front of the log as you pull forward. We hook it to a 4 wheeler or side by side and it works great. My buddy has one. I'll get pics when I can but this gives you an idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank You.


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## Brian72 (Sep 22, 2017)

Anytime. I'll get pics the next time I visit him.

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## Sawyer Rob (Sep 22, 2017)

Norwood makes/sells or use to make something like that, it lifted one of the log when you took off, with a chain slipping up a slanted bar...

Not a bad idea, you just back up to set the log back down...

SR


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## Ryan'smilling (Sep 22, 2017)

Logging arch. That's what they're called. Logrite makes some excellent ones. They can be made from parts laying around also.


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## Brian72 (Sep 22, 2017)

They really are a great tool. Getting the front of the log off the ground makes a huge difference.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk


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## mesupra (Sep 22, 2017)

Check out the Norse/Igland Brand winches. Very good quality and just happen to be about the cheapest out there. Labonville our of NH carries them along with many other dealers. I have a older model Igland 501 and its every bit the winch as any other brand out there. Picked it up on craigs list like new for $2000.


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## Ted Jenkins (Sep 22, 2017)

As far as Logging Arches goes it does not matter what you use. Anything that will get the upper end of a log out of the dirt to be able to pull. I have used a trailer axle and it worked fine. The issue with a axle is that it must be able to be chained under the log in a secure manner so that it does not move around. The deal with a arch is that it is a little easier to raise the log with some sort of cable and a winch. I have worked with logs that were about 10,000 lbs and have set a snatch block to increase capacity only to find that they could not be moved because of some obstruction. In some severe cases have set two snatch blocks and still could not move some logs with out repositioning them. Even with 25,000 lbs of force could not move a 10,000 lb log. So if one end of the log is clear or off the ground smooth sailing. Thanks


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## Catfish Hunter (Sep 23, 2017)

I looked at a 10 year old wallenstein fx120 its in decent shape guy wants 3700 for it. Is that worth it?


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## Ted Jenkins (Sep 23, 2017)

I would think that it does not matter what the cost is since it all relative. What is your market like? What is the demand like for your products firewood logs or lumber. You would not be asking questions unless you think that you have a chance at getting a good return. In my area the demand has continually increased with the supply dwindling so guess what the price keeps going up. Buy the best equipment possible unless you think that the return is only going to be marginal. If you spend an enormous amount of time repairing fixing or rebuilding your equipment then you will not have too much time to make a profit. I have a budget for equipment so I keep buying brand new saws so working on them is not likely. It makes little sense to spend much time rebuilding saws when I need to be cutting. Thanks


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## mesupra (Sep 23, 2017)

I would check out the availability of island winches. 10k pull new got under $3000 is pretty hard to beat. The wallenstein are nice winches for sure.


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## Ryan'smilling (Sep 23, 2017)

mesupra said:


> I would check out the availability of island winches. 10k pull new got under $3000 is pretty hard to beat. The wallenstein are nice winches for sure.



I think autocorrect messed that one up for you. I'm thinking you meant Igland winches. 


To the OP, that's a lot of winch. If you've got a 10,000#+ tractor to run it, is probably a decent deal. I'd price a new fx90 and 120, just to see how it'd compare.


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## mesupra (Sep 23, 2017)

Yes I meant igland thanks


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## Sawyer Rob (Sep 23, 2017)

When I bought my winch it was all about the details... I looked at a LOT of winches and chose what I thought was the winches that looked the best to me.

It came down to Wallenstein and Farmi... Other brands were lacking features or didn't look as well made.

I wouldn't buy a winch that didn't have a protective screen, and it was optional on some brands... Also I wanted a hitch on it, (adjustable hitch preferred) to pull wagons ect., some had no hitch at all!

I knew I didn't want a winch with a "band" brake, I wanted chainsaw loops and a place to carry choker chains ect...

Adding these things later was just adding to the purchase price, so I just figured I'd buy a winch that had them in the first place.

Anyway, I ended up with a Wallenstein and it had everything I wanted and it came with THREE "quality" choker chains! GOOD choker chains aren't cheeeep so that was a nice addition!

SO, the best part is, once I decided on a Wallenstein, I found a place on line that discounted them, and I ordered my FX90 for a very good price.

SR


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## Ted Jenkins (Sep 23, 2017)

Remember you can always add weight to the front of your ride. With a large load my crawler would lift the front end up so adding 500 to 1000 lbs might get you comfortable bringing those larger logs right up to your truck. How big a spool can your unit handle or how many feet will fit on your spool. Also as the spool fills up it will have less pulling power. Thanks


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## Gypo Logger (Sep 24, 2017)

I concure with all that's been said. It's all about traction and thinking ahead.


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## ArtB (Sep 24, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> completely off topic...
> 
> many years ago I desperately wanted to be a professional black smith tried every thing I could think of or hack together to get fire wood to burn hot enough to forge with.
> 
> ...



More off topic: 
Do you have any involvement with NW Blacksmith Assoc ? 

Also: once you do propane (or electric even) coal is pretty dirty and time consuming to start for a 'quick fix' type job. Have not used coal for 25 years, but have used 'free' charcoal salvaged from a slash burn pile. 

Where I grew up (central IL) there was a coal mine 3 blocks from our house and we heated with coal till I was about 10 YO. Used to use the coal furnace in the winter for the forge. Piece of RR track for anvil.. Until I realized how much sulpher was in IL coal and effect on metalurgy, always wondered why a knife made with a coal forge was never quite as strong as one made with charcoal.

Even more off topic: Remember the Boeing surplus store in Kent? One could get 4340 steel for 25 cents pound (4340 is used for engine mounts on jet airliners). Made some log tong out of it - about 15X harder to forge than 1090 or similar - beat and beat on it at bright red and still did not want to move. 

enough off topic for now.


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## ArtB (Sep 24, 2017)

Don't have a file pic, but next time I'm at my 'wood lot' near Mossyrock I'll take a pic of the winch and frame on old JD 440IC used for lifting and dragging logs. Welded up out of scraps'
Something like this but with chain drive winch vs. factory.
BTW, Think I'll need to take one of the final drives off AGAIN to free up frozen dry clutch !!!


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## muddstopper (Sep 24, 2017)

growing up, we did all our logging with a farm tractor. Its a wonder I a still alive. dad had a old winch that ran off the pto of the tractor. Now this old winch was old way back in the 60's, and Its now setting in the woods with trees grown up thru it. Anyways, the winch was way stronger than the little dexter tractor we used for skidding. It had dogs that engaged the drum, it was either engaged and dragging or it was free wheeling. I can remember dad backing it up to a small pine and winching 4ft dia x 100ft long whitepines up to the log landing. One day the end of one of those trees dug into a creek bank. With pressure on the winch, you couldnt release the winch. The winch dragged the tractor up the tree it was backed up against and bent the tree over. Dad bailed off the tractor and it continued to be winched up the tree. Once the tractor got so far up the tree that the tree sprang back up right and filled the tractor on its top. Being a diesel, the tractor was still running and being dragged thru the dirt. Once the tractor was on the ground, dad reached under it and pulled the kill switch. This happened more than once. Dad finally bought a d2 dozer with a winch. It wasnt much better, but he never turned it over. The old tractor winch was given to my uncle, he proceeded to flip his tractor a time or two before giving it up. The winch is setting in the woods beside his old barn.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 24, 2017)

ArtB said:


> More off topic:
> Do you have any involvement with NW Blacksmith Assoc ?
> 
> Also: once you do propane (or electric even) coal is pretty dirty and time consuming to start for a 'quick fix' type job. Have not used coal for 25 years, but have used 'free' charcoal salvaged from a slash burn pile.
> ...


No association with nwbsa or any other group, heard of em but not a member.

Propane is all well and good, if you have a propane forge... i do not...

A weed dragon is a close second but fer anything that needs a quick heat and beat i just use a rose bud in the acetylene torch.

Coal is pretty hard to come by any more used to be a place in centralia but its been years since I've been there, got a whole truck load from a Ballard basement i'm still working through...

Hammering 440c is probably the worst ive ever come across has to be orange almost yellow or the hammer just bounces off


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## Skeans (Oct 3, 2017)

hseII said:


> I'm Looking at the FARMI brand & wondering if they have any real competition in the 11,00lb + pulling class....
> Specifically the 51 & 61 models.
> Which do y'all run?


We have a farmi forwarder back half for a tractor that gets used behind a 110hp 4wd Deere once in a blue for it's purpose it's ok but it's no forestry machine. If it was me looking for a best of both worlds look into a Valtra tractor they're made for the application.

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## Catfish Hunter (Oct 4, 2017)

Here's the Farmall 806. Now just need a winch... (or a skidder)


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## Ryan'smilling (Oct 4, 2017)

Catfish Hunter said:


> Here's the Farmall 806. Now just need a winch... (or a skidder)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Nice machine. Diesel? 

A winch, and a ROPS would make it something worth trying in the woods.


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## Catfish Hunter (Oct 4, 2017)

Ryan'smilling said:


> Nice machine. Diesel?
> 
> A winch, and a ROPS would make it something worth trying in the woods.



Yep diesel!


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## hseII (Oct 8, 2017)

Skeans said:


> We have a farmi forwarder back half for a tractor that gets used behind a 110hp 4wd Deere once in a blue for it's purpose it's ok but it's no forestry machine. If it was me looking for a best of both worlds look into a Valtra tractor they're made for the application.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



I’ve already got the Tractor. 
Kubota M7060 HD12


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## woodfarmer (Oct 28, 2017)

hseII said:


> I'm Looking at the FARMI brand & wondering if they have any real competition in the 11,00lb + pulling class....
> Specifically the 51 & 61 models.
> Which do y'all run?


I run the 501 off a 90hp caseih mfd


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## JTM (Oct 28, 2017)

Case IH


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## hseII (Oct 28, 2017)

woodfarmer said:


> I run the 501 off a 90hp caseih mfd



Is there anything you wish that was different with it?


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## woodfarmer (Oct 29, 2017)

No, I had the winch on a jd 3130 2wd before I upgraded to the case. It went no where once the snow flew.
I would like the larger 601, but I’ve run this for 17 yrs without an issue.


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## hayboy (Nov 27, 2017)

muddstopper said:


> growing up, we did all our logging with a farm tractor. Its a wonder I a still alive. dad had a old winch that ran off the pto of the tractor. Now this old winch was old way back in the 60's, and Its now setting in the woods with trees grown up thru it. Anyways, the winch was way stronger than the little dexter tractor we used for skidding. It had dogs that engaged the drum, it was either engaged and dragging or it was free wheeling. I can remember dad backing it up to a small pine and winching 4ft dia x 100ft long whitepines up to the log landing. One day the end of one of those trees dug into a creek bank. With pressure on the winch, you couldnt release the winch. The winch dragged the tractor up the tree it was backed up against and bent the tree over. Dad bailed off the tractor and it continued to be winched up the tree. Once the tractor got so far up the tree that the tree sprang back up right and filled the tractor on its top. Being a diesel, the tractor was still running and being dragged thru the dirt. Once the tractor was on the ground, dad reached under it and pulled the kill switch. This happened more than once. Dad finally bought a d2 dozer with a winch. It wasnt much better, but he never turned it over. The old tractor winch was given to my uncle, he proceeded to flip his tractor a time or two before giving it up. The winch is setting in the woods beside his old barn.


Sounds like my winch that came off a military truck. My 135MF had a ground speed pto, so when I got in a tight, I would put the pto in ground speed, tractor in reverse, then I could get some slack to take it out of gear and regroup. Never had to bail off.


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