# Log splitter kinetic or hydraulic??



## The Diesel (Dec 1, 2016)

Well my wood splitter is on last leg. who knows how old it is but we replaced the engine at least once. between me my dad brother and uncle we split quite a few chords a year.

I was looking at a 35 ton Bradley hydraulic splitter . Seems heavy duty. anyone have any experience? they are made here in IL.

The kinetic splitters have peaked my interest but we split pretty much all oak and red elm that isnt real dry and I worry if they are strong enough. super split seem to get better review but they are $2500. Dr rapidfire are cheaper but reviews don't seem to good.

What do you all think?


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## litefoot (Dec 2, 2016)

I can't help with the question of which one. I think it honestly comes down to personal preference. I don't think anyone has ever posted a bad review of a SS. Never heard of Bradley, but I did look it up. Looks like a lot of splitter for little money. Wonder why it's not mentioned more. Maybe I live a sheltered life.


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## RyeThomas (Dec 2, 2016)

Never heard of Bradley, I will says as noted above that's a low price for the machine with a 4 way standard. Not much info out there that I could find. 
Kinetic is more money and a different machine all together. I would do my research if you start really looking at going that route. 
It's a tough call, I just went through the same delima. Read lots and good luck.


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## Streblerm (Dec 2, 2016)

http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/for/5896576250.html

That looks like a lot of splitter for the money!


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## NGaMountains (Dec 2, 2016)

Streblerm said:


> http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/for/5896576250.html
> 
> That looks like a lot of splitter for the money!


Wow, does it ever! If close by, I'd grab that and not look back. And to think I used to live 20 minutes from there and now 12 hours!


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## mesupra (Dec 2, 2016)

Not sure I would like the idea of having the wedge attached to the cylinder. A stationary wedge seems to be more productive. If you can afford a kinetic splitter I would not hesitate however the initial cost is often times twice as much. Few people around here running the DR with very good results. I know of at least one guy who makes a living off his.


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## sunfish (Dec 2, 2016)

After running a Super Split J model for over 6 years, I'll never own another splitter.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 2, 2016)

To me a major factor is what size stuff you are normally dealing with and the length. The kinetics work great on smaller diameter and shorter lengths. I have used them and liked them on that stuff. Bigger stuff, not so much. What I would suggest to to find a member close to you with a kinetic and see if they would be willing to let you try it out with the wood you normally deal with. For their time you could leave the wood if they wanted and you'd have a real world test that would answer your questions. 

I always thought on a commercial setting a hydraulic to chunk up the biggins' and a kinetic to finish them off would be ideal.Multi man op for sure. Big time users would probably just go with a processor like a Cord King. Those things make my drool! I'm just doing my own, sometimes by myself so I have to go with what works best for me.


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## RyeThomas (Dec 2, 2016)

Very good idea above.
I asked and read lots before I purchased my SS. I called and talked to Paul and he opened his Rolodex and found a customer about an hour from me and was willing to call them and see if I could drop by and see it. I decided after a few e-mails and speaking to them that was the route I was going to take and didn't bother going to check it out.
So there may be someone near you. I'm by no means pushing a SS, just saying it would be pretty nice if your on the fence to go see a Kinetic.
Mine should be here next week. I will add my name to the list of people that are open for others to come by and check it out.

After all these things are a fortune so you better get what you want the first time.

I wonder what the cycle time of the Bradley is and how big the hydraulic tank is? Reguardless thats a lot for a low price.

Again good luck.

Have a great weekend Gents.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 2, 2016)

Interesting having four people going in on the purchase. 
I would break it down a little further than hydraulic vs kinetic.

There are several styles in the hydraulic splitter category, typically based on wedge style, but not entirely.
Horizontal/vertical, which are wedge on cylinder rod.
Horizontal, wedge on beam. (options: tow from different ends, often higher beams, log lifts, four/six way wedges, disappearing four-way wedges that drop below the beam)
Horizontal, wedge on ram. (dual split, log lifts)
Horizontal, box wedge. (Tempest is a brand comes to mind, dual action)
Raised Vertical. (PowerSplit style with wedge on ram;options as four-way wedge, log lift, self propelled models, and integrated conveyor)

The kinetics are pretty much one style, the difference being up to now, two things: dependability, and single vs two handed activation.
Without exception, the kinetic splitters have narrow cutting wedges. (Hydraulic wedge design is all over the place. Dual split wedges being knife like. Timberwolf is the opposite, with an extremely fat wedge. There are combination wedges that are narrow with a wide flare to cut and pop splits.)
There are some option differences among kinetics.
Towing, lower center of gravity, manual log lifts, brand of power units, including electric powered.

I would pay less attention to tonnage claims, and more attention to what your splitting dictates (size of rounds) and how you work. An example would be taking the splitter to the wood, or the wood to the splitter, then ergonomics as in a tip-up horizontal/vertical, log lift, or neither and noodle the few rounds that may need it. The kinetics are very ergonomic with the added height and especially the table for re-splitting, but not all of them tow well. Towing may be a factor for you with four owners. I suspect most kinetics would need to be trailered for road travel.

If the kinetic is still on your list, call Paul at SuperSplit and ask if he can give you a name of someone close to you that has one that you can contact via email or perhaps personally, to check see if it is still a fit or not. I did that several years ago before buying, contacting an owner by phone. You are welcome to try mine, a three year old SS-HD, but it is probably a three hour drive for you one way. I suspect many, like myself, who have moved to kinetics, previously used hydraulic splitter and kept them. I upgraded to a hydraulic with log lift, but the really large dia. wood supply is no longer available, and the unit sits mostly unused as I prefer to use the SS for most wood.

I'm sure others can add more to the style and differences in both types.
Just read the last two posts that came up, so double coverage on some stuff. Kevin in Ohio did a wonderful job of pulling several styles together in to a beautiful custom splitter build tailored to his wood supply and how he works.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 2, 2016)

That red one, how can it have 12-15 hrs but look brand new?

Those fenders I'd rip off after the first 30 seconds. I used a Troy Built with fenders like that, I still have scars on my shins from those things and that was 4 tears ago!


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## The Diesel (Dec 2, 2016)

My brother and uncle have their own log splitters at their house but this one would be at the farm we all hunt where most of the splitting happens. My brother and uncle heat their houses with wood. We heat our hunting cabin with wood and I burn a couple two tree chords in the fireplace at my house.

I am not sure if it will get split 4 ways, I am just tired of the slow ass splitter we have so was going to buy a new one myself and surprise everyone. It all comes out in wash so not worried about it.

Would be cool to bring one of the kinetic out there and surprise everyone with the speed. I dont think they even know they kinetic exist. Would back fire on me if it wont split the oak and red elm. My uncle is especially hard on equipment.

Thanks for the input. I am gonna see if I can find a SS around here to try.


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## clogsplit (Dec 2, 2016)

The Diesel said:


> My brother and uncle have their own log splitters at their house but this one would be at the farm we all hunt where most of the splitting happens. My brother and uncle heat their houses with wood. We heat our hunting cabin with wood and I burn a couple two tree chords in the fireplace at my house.
> 
> I am not sure if it will get split 4 ways, I am just tired of the slow ass splitter we have so was going to buy a new one myself and surprise everyone. It all comes out in wash so not worried about it.
> 
> ...


Have you seen the Split Second kinetic log splitters made right here in Illinois? You could go look at their website, plenty of videos and pretty much same as super split. They also have accessories like a manual log lift and cover that are quite nice. I would bet they would demo one for you guys anytime, since your in Illinois. I remember them doing some charity splits in Iowa for fun and there might be others on here that remember that. Good luck in your search.


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## The Diesel (Dec 2, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> That red one, how can it have 12-15 hrs but look brand new?
> 
> Those fenders I'd rip off after the first 30 seconds. I used a Troy Built with fenders like that, I still have scars on my shins from those things and that was 4 tears ago!



I checked on that. That is a new one not the demo you would get.


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## CaseyForrest (Dec 2, 2016)

I just got my sshd a couple weeks ago. So far the only thing it's coughed at is a load of unknown elm. But everything else I've thrown at it, no problem. Even crotches and knots, it just slices right through them. The elm it will split no problem as long as the rounds aren't to large, or I noodle the larger pieces. Then it cuts those too. And I say cut because it doesn't really split wood, it cuts it. 

You can come try mine as well. I have plenty of different types of wood you can get a feel for. 

sent from a field


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 2, 2016)

mesupra said:


> Not sure I would like the idea of having the wedge attached to the cylinder. A stationary wedge seems to be more productive.


 That's ABSOLUTELY been MY experience, I'll NEVER go back to a wedge on the cylinder type splitter!

SR


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## The Diesel (Dec 3, 2016)

Sawyer Rob said:


> That's ABSOLUTELY been MY experience, I'll NEVER go back to a wedge on the cylinder type splitter!
> 
> SR


Why is that? i assume its harder in cylinder because of pressure to move to the side. wouldn't the wedge have to be on the cylinder if the splitter can be used vertical?


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## Oldmaple (Dec 3, 2016)

The Diesel said:


> Why is that? i assume its harder in cylinder because of pressure to move to the side. wouldn't the wedge have to be on the cylinder if the splitter can be used vertical?


That was my thought, the vertical ones always have the wedge on the cylinder.


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## NSMaple1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Hydro guy here, always will be. A h/v one. It will handle the big & uglies, and I hate noodling. And I'm at the stage where a super fast cycle time would be wasted on me - I'd wear myself out if I tried to keep it working.

Also prefer wedge on ram - the wood stays in one place until you get it split small enough, no moving it back to the beam for resplitting.

As usual, different strokes...


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 3, 2016)

NSMaple1 said:


> Hydro guy here, always will be. A h/v one. It will handle the big & uglies, and I hate noodling. And I'm at the stage where a super fast cycle time would be wasted on me - I'd wear myself out if I tried to keep it working.
> 
> Also prefer wedge on ram - the wood stays in one place until you get it split small enough, no moving it back to the beam for resplitting.
> 
> As usual, different strokes...



That is my situation too. I always hated having to try to pull all the big stuff back. Some like the fixed wedge as once it is split to final size, they can just push it away and be done. Huge multi wedges are key here but I don't like those because they make too many small slivers? more pieces to handle if you will. I don't mind handling a small/finished piece on the ground to the sides or onto a conveyor. If in the woods, throwing to the sides and keep backing down the logs length to split. When done, back the truck and load from both sides with NO steps if you move the truck. With my splitter design, Wedge on ram keeps the suspended/leftrd round from swinging back because the whole round has to move. Wedge on the ram just works for what I have.

Everything has it's good and bad points. Just weigh your options and see what works best for your set up as you say.







This is by far the easiest way to work up big stuff for me.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 3, 2016)

The Diesel said:


> Why is that? i assume its harder in cylinder because of pressure to move to the side. wouldn't the wedge have to be on the cylinder if the splitter can be used vertical?


 Because "fixed wedge" splitters get the job done faster, with less handling of the wood.

There are better ways to handle splitting big rounds than vertical splitting, or even splitting them with a chainsaw, I choose to do it a better/easier way.....and that is to cut my wood to length, over a wagon in the first place. Then roll the wood onto it's beam. It's just MUCH easier that way, with much less manual handling of the rounds to get the job done...

SR


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## Ryan'smilling (Dec 3, 2016)

I love splitting wood in peace and quiet. I see the appeal of the big hydro splitters, but personally, when I buy a splitter it'll be an electric Super Split. I really like the idea of a fast cycle and an almost silent machine.


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## NGaMountains (Dec 3, 2016)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Because "fixed wedge" splitters get the job done faster, with less handling of the wood.
> 
> There are better ways to handle splitting big rounds than vertical splitting, or even splitting them with a chainsaw, I choose to do it a better/easier way.....and that is to cut my wood to length, over a wagon in the first place. Then roll the wood onto it's beam. It's just MUCH easier that way, with much less manual handling of the rounds to get the job done...
> 
> SR


Glad that works for you. For me, what you describe still requires getting it up high in the first place, which as a mostly one man operation I have not the strength nor the equipment to accomplish in either log or large round form. So I am also in the vertical camp until I get it small enough to lift. As someone said above, different strokes...


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## NSMaple1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Because "fixed wedge" splitters get the job done faster, with less handling of the wood.
> 
> There are better ways to handle splitting big rounds than vertical splitting, or even splitting them with a chainsaw, I choose to do it a better/easier way.....and that is to cut my wood to length, over a wagon in the first place. Then roll the wood onto it's beam. It's just MUCH easier that way, with much less manual handling of the rounds to get the job done...
> 
> SR



Your situation is not a universal one. I have less handling with my wedge on ram & h/v splitter, in my situation.


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## GVS (Dec 3, 2016)

NSMaple1 said:


> Your situation is not a universal one. I have less handling with my wedge on ram & h/v splitter, in my situation.


Ditto,the same with me and I have both types of hydro. splitter.It all comes down to whatever floats your boat.


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 3, 2016)

The other nice feature about the wedge on the end is that you can back whatever you are putting the wood into up to the splitter and the wood being split will keep pushing the splits into the trailer, truck, wagging, cart, etc . Or even onto a conveyor. I've used several brands and models of splitters and it seems like the ones with the wedge on the ram are more or less homeowner units. Not to say they won't process your wood, just not as practical or productive in my opinion.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 3, 2016)

sirbuildalot said:


> The other nice feature about the wedge on the end is that you can back whatever you are putting the wood into up to the splitter and the wood being split will keep pushing the splits into the trailer, truck, wagging, cart, etc . Or even onto a conveyor. I've used several brands and models of splitters and it seems like the ones with the wedge on the ram are more or less homeowner units. Not to say they won't process your wood, just not as practical or productive in my opinion.



I have both types, my wedge on the ram, splitter just sits. I think it's headed to my nephew...

Yup... "fixed wedge" splitters are just plain faster and with less handling of the splits... Yes they do, usually they cost more, but for ME, it's worth it to save time and save my BACK!

SR


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 3, 2016)

If I run a wedge on ram splitter in the vertical position for a long time I wouldn't be able to stand up straight afterwards, because my back would be so sore. I like fairly high horizontal splitters with fixed wedges. I've run a tw5, tw6, an American that had a 6 second cycle time (forget the model), 3 different supersplitters including my own and a tsc knockoff. All had fixed wedges. The vertical/horizontal wedge on ram units I used were so slow I couldn't bear waiting for the ram to return. Like watching paint dry to be truthful. One was a Troy-bilt and the other I think was a north star.


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## KiwiBro (Dec 3, 2016)

I guess that's the trade-off for a vertical splitter. Fine for busting bigger rounds into a manageable size and then using a kinetic to finish the job?


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 3, 2016)

Diesel: The fact that you have been around splitters is a huge advantage for you as you have an idea of what works, and doesn't work so good, as does ValleyFirewood and sharp edged fenders. I would never even consider fenders, as good or bad. They're there, that's a nice plus I guess...the other guys aren't offering fenders...sort of thing. And that's how splitters are... You have to look close. Pre-visualize (the five stitches in your shin...) and ask yourself questions as you picture yourself going through the motions. Am I taking the splitter to the wood, or the wood to the splitter? What end is the hitch on? Does it push wood off the end? Is that a plus if it does, or did I just bury the hitch? Do I need to unhook it from the tow vehicle to even start to split? Do I need to pick up every split piece off the beam to toss it in a pile? That might be a plus... if the pile is in a trailer. Where will my rounds be when I split? (in a trailer/truck, on the ground in a pile, where the tree was dropped and cut up); When I split a big round does one piece fall on the ground on the opposite side of the splitter? Can I operate it standing with a straight back, or reaching and bent over forward, bent over sideways? Is the oil tank big enough? Tires big enough? Do the controls feel natural to reach for, or is there a tire in the way? Can I run it from both sides, or is there a tank in the way on one side? If wood falls off the beam does the engine take a hit, or a hydraulic filter?
It is kind of like buying a car? All new cars are... New. The seat hugs you, the radio sounds great as it is not competing with rattles and such, yet. Dash is modern, snazzy, sharp looking...and New! After you own it three month you notice other things, the same things actually, with a broader awareness. That seat that hugged you, pushes your shoulders forward, and after an hour you find yourself sitting sideways on one cheek to relieve the discomfort. Your smile has turned into a vertical line between your eyebrows. That snazzy dash...you can't find the defroster button for crap as the road is vanishing beyond the windshield. And remember the radio...the saleman turned it on for you during the test drive for a reason... because it is a touch screen and it takes eight minutes to find the friggin menu. At 75 mph, how far did you go in eight minutes................? (5280' x 75 mph/60 minutes x 8 minutes = 52,800' or 10 miles, but that's theoretical because you will really be in a ditch somewhere seven minutes sooner than all that.) But we don't notice that stuff...because it is New, and we just see New, most of the time. Splitter are somewhat simpler, no defrost, no radio, no seat. But it is important to look past the shinny paint and big number printed on it, because some wood splitters are designed by clowns with masters degrees.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 3, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> I guess that's the trade-off for a vertical splitter. Fine for busting bigger rounds into a manageable size and then using a kinetic to finish the job?


 OR just run the rounds through a 4-way a couple times in the first place, and your done!

That way, there's NO need to keep handling them, OR the need for two splitters to deal with.

SR


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## muddstopper (Dec 3, 2016)

I dont know, 12 pieces in 6 or 7 sec seems pretty fast to me. Cant get there I dont think with a kinetic


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## KiwiBro (Dec 3, 2016)

Sawyer Rob said:


> OR just run the rounds through a 4-way a couple times in the first place, and your done!
> 
> That way, there's NO need to keep handling them, OR the need for two splitters to deal with.
> 
> SR


I think I'd prefer the one and done approach Mr Mudd is building and accepting that while it creates lotsa trash it more than makes up for it with super productivity.


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## gary courtney (Dec 4, 2016)

my splitter kills my back. It is horizontal and the top of beam is about 8-inch off ground so I have to continually lift logs onto beam. is it easier on back if rail is 3 ft or so off ground when you have to pick up logs and lift higher ?


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 4, 2016)

gary courtney said:


> my splitter kills my back.


Perhaps it is not actually the lifting, but rather working bent over without straitening up, or most likely a combination of both. A higher beam might be beneficial, and possibly an auxiliary table next to the beam. Pulp hooks help as well in handling wood in many situations. This is an old splitter raised up. The bench was built of repurposed 4" x 4"s, and some 2" x material bolted up. It can be used on either side of the beam. Note the bench is quite long so it catches one half of a big round after being split, and there is still room to work up the half closest to you. Another benefit is that the bench keeps the split pile away from the splitter a bit. When done the splitter is still easily moved.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 4, 2016)

gary courtney said:


> my splitter kills my back. It is horizontal and the top of beam is about 8-inch off ground so I have to continually lift logs onto beam. is it easier on back if rail is 3 ft or so off ground when you have to pick up logs and lift higher ?



IF your splitter is too low, block it up higher!

My splitter is adjustable, I put it where it's most comfortable to use.

SR


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## gary courtney (Dec 4, 2016)

very good idea guys. I will have to possibly build a new frame and put springs,axle and larger tires to raise it up . thanks for replies.
Gary


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## gary courtney (Dec 4, 2016)

Sandhill Crane said:


> Perhaps it is not actually the lifting, but rather working bent over without straitening up, or most likely a combination of both. A higher beam might be beneficial, and possibly an auxiliary table next to the beam. Pulp hooks help as well in handling wood in many situations. This is an old splitter raised up. The bench was built of repurposed 4" x 4"s, and some 2" x material bolted up. It can be used on either side of the beam. Note the bench is quite long so it catches one half of a big round after being split, and there is still room to work up the half closest to you. Another benefit is that the bench keeps the split pile away from the splitter a bit. When done the splitter is still easily moved.View attachment 541182
> View attachment 541183


my splitter is similar to yours . my axles are welded to bottom of base motor sits on and they are not as tall as yours


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 4, 2016)

Found it! 
I was trying to find a photo that showed the axle mod a fruit farmer made to this splitter to tow behind a tractor in an orchard. 
Originally it had small wheels and tires. VW hubs, wheels and tires were added and the tongue lengthened. Nothing fancy. 

We had a string of local thefts so I blocked one side and pulled a wheel off as a deterrent. The other photo gives a better idea of the table size. These are old photos that I've posted elsewhere before. I sold this splitter in 2015 after using it over thirty years to heat our home.

I now use a SuperSplit HD 95+% of the time. It is even more ergonomic in height, integrated table for resplitting, smooth, practical 6.5 hp Subaru sips gas, nice controlled splits, very little splitter trash, and affordable. Three years already on the SS, and can not imagine doing firewood small scale without it. 
I just noticed the engine is behind a board in the first picture. The board is temporary placed there so the pretty red engine/white tank of the GX200 was less visible from the road. 

Anyway, the motivation behind the whole set up you see here is to ease ones back. I've changes splitter, and added the Posch PackFix, but basically the same set-up. Green, as in unseasoned, Oak is approx. 5,800 pounds/cord. I move it from the cutting table to the staging table (1.) Then the staging table to the splitter, that's (2.) Unload seasoned off the truck by hand @ 4,000 pounds/cord (3.).... total approx. 15,600 pounds/cord. Treat your back well at every stage. I didn't figure in the weight of the chainsaw per cord... That would be a little harder to figure.


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## row.man (Dec 5, 2016)

From my experince, you can't beat a SS for speed and lasting value, If cost was no issue I would have one.
Instead I have a fast hydraulic, which really is all I need for 6 plus cords a year. 
with two of us running the splitter, one feeding and stacking, the predator is all I need. With just me I can split and stack a cord in a couple hours.
I ran the SS with a few other guys, it took three young guys to keep it fed and the splits pile from getting too big.


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 5, 2016)

I love my ss. I agree to fully utilize it to its full potential 3 guys is the magic number. One getting rounds ready, one splitting and one taking the splits away. For being by myself I would love to have a conveyor.


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## Ryan'smilling (Dec 5, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> I dont know, 12 pieces in 6 or 7 sec seems pretty fast to me. Cant get there I dont think with a kinetic



That may very well be true. For me, a big part the appeal of the super split is that they come in an electric model. Yes, a heavy, expensive hydraulic model can probably be more productive, and they usually have a hydraulic log lift as well, which eliminates the noodling and heavy lifting. But, they're loud and stinky. Different strokes for different folks. Nothing wrong with them for getting the job done, but I think a fast, quiet, powerful, electric splitter is pretty awesome.


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## muddstopper (Dec 6, 2016)

I noodle a little every now and then, but its only because the rounds are so big I cant fit them on the beam using my boom. Even quartering those rounds they are still to big to lift by hand. A lot can be said for the speed of the SS on wood you can just pickup and throw on it, but if you have to noodle everything before you can split it, have you really saved any time. A lot is mentioned about the amount of waste and splinters using multisplit wedges, then you look at all the noodles made sawing wood just so the SS can handle it, is there really anymore waste using a big hyd splitter and a multisplit wedge. I think if I was looking for small size splits, or making bundles, A SS would be a must have tool. I can throw some pretty good size splits in my stove, and my hydraulic works just fine making those.

I also like the ideal of a electric splitter, you can put a electric motor on a hydraulic splitter too. Since I dont have power lines following me around in the woods, I would have to carry a gas generator to power the electric splitter, and I dont have power where I process my wood, so a electric powered splitter isnt in my future. I can see where if I had a fire wood lot and splitting a lot of wood everyday for resale, a little quiet running splitter would be pretty nice.


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## Ryan'smilling (Dec 6, 2016)

@muddstopper, just a quick reply. I'm sure you could put an electric motor on a hydraulic splitter, but if you want to put one on something that'll compete with a super split, that's gonna be some serious juice. I don't really know, but I'd assume three phase. That would be a cool unit, though, if you had a place for it! 

I noodle the occasional piece too. Actually, I don't have a splitter of any kind right now. I borrow the neighbor's hydraulic one every couple of years, but otherwise I do about 12-15 cords by hand. So, I guess I should have mentioned that my case, I could always whack a piece into slabs, or in half, quarters, etc with my maul. That's quite a bit faster than noodling, doesn't waste wood, and doesn't use fuel. Still would have to noodle the oddball, though. 

Anyway, for now, I'll just keep dreaming about a splitter. I'm pretty good splitting by hand, and I love doing it. I want to do it for a long time, though, which means that I want to spread out the 5,000 (or however many) cords I can do by hand over my lifetime rather than over work myself in the next decade.


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## GVS (Dec 6, 2016)

row.man said:


> From my experince, you can't beat a SS for speed and lasting value, If cost was no issue I would have one.
> Instead I have a fast hydraulic, which really is all I need for 6 plus cords a year.
> with two of us running the splitter, one feeding and stacking, the predator is all I need. With just me I can split and stack a cord in a couple hours.
> I ran the SS with a few other guys, it took three young guys to keep it fed and the splits pile from getting too big.





muddstopper said:


> I noodle a little every now and then, but its only because the rounds are so big I cant fit them on the beam using my boom. Even quartering those rounds they are still to big to lift by hand. A lot can be said for the speed of the SS on wood you can just pickup and throw on it, but if you have to noodle everything before you can split it, have you really saved any time. A lot is mentioned about the amount of waste and splinters using multisplit wedges, then you look at all the noodles made sawing wood just so the SS can handle it, is there really anymore waste using a big hyd splitter and a multisplit wedge. I think if I was looking for small size splits, or making bundles, A SS would be a must have tool. I can throw some pretty good size splits in my stove, and my hydraulic works just fine making those.
> 
> I also like the ideal of a electric splitter, you can put a electric motor on a hydraulic splitter too. Since I dont have power lines following me around in the woods, I would have to carry a gas generator to power the electric splitter, and I dont have power where I process my wood, so a electric powered splitter isnt in my future. I can see where if I had a fire wood lot and splitting a lot of wood everyday for resale, a little quiet running splitter would be pretty nice.




Speaking of noodleing,I don't recall doing any noodleing since I bought my V/H splitter 5 years ago.Couldn't use an elec. powered unit because I split at the landing and it's a long way from elec. power.I don't like the idea of tandem towing a splitter and generator to the landing.


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## muddstopper (Dec 6, 2016)

Ryan'smilling said:


> @muddstopper, just a quick reply. I'm sure you could put an electric motor on a hydraulic splitter, but if you want to put one on something that'll compete with a super split, that's gonna be some serious juice. I don't really know, but I'd assume three phase. That would be a cool unit, though, if you had a place for it!


For a single split like a SS, with similar splitting capability, I suspect it would be hard to do with a electric/hyd setup. Big motor, big pump, big cost. I spent about 5 sec thinking about it and think its possible if someone really wants one. When you throw in multiple splits per stroke, is where it could be more feasible to produce a electric/hyd splitter that could compete with a electric/kinetic splitter. Either way, a electric power splitter of any kind is going to be a site specific operation, meaning, if electricity isnt available, you wont be using the machine to split any wood. 

Many people like their SS splitters, and just as many like their hyd splitters. Different needs for different folks, I dont need a elect/over anything type of splitter, it wont work where I split wood. Now a gas over kinetic, I could find very useful, but I already have the hyd splitter and I only split enough wood for my needs, so unless a kinetic splitter falls off someones truck in my drive way, I aint likely to own one any time soon.


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## muddstopper (Dec 6, 2016)

GVS said:


> Speaking of noodleing,I don't recall doing any noodleing since I bought my V/H splitter 5 years ago.Couldn't use an elec. powered unit because I split at the landing and it's a long way from elec. power.I don't like the idea of tandem towing a splitter and generator to the landing.


 I use a boom with winch to pick up the big rounds, Its only when rounds start reaching 4ft dia that I have to noodle anything. The only reason then is because the distance between the boom and the beam wont allow a 4ft round to fit between them. I can pick the round up, but I cant swing it on the beam. I have used the fel to load bigger rounds, but even with a 6way wedge, the pieces are still to big handle by hand. Its just easier to noodle and use the boom to load the smaller pieces.


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## Ryan'smilling (Dec 6, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> For a single split like a SS, with similar splitting capability, I suspect it would be hard to do with a electric/hyd setup. Big motor, big pump, big cost. I spent about 5 sec thinking about it and think its possible if someone really wants one. When you throw in multiple splits per stroke, is where it could be more feasible to produce a electric/hyd splitter that could compete with a electric/kinetic splitter. Either way, a electric power splitter of any kind is going to be a site specific operation, meaning, if electricity isnt available, you wont be using the machine to split any wood.
> 
> Many people like their SS splitters, and just as many like their hyd splitters. Different needs for different folks, I dont need a elect/over anything type of splitter, it wont work where I split wood. Now a gas over kinetic, I could find very useful, but I already have the hyd splitter and I only split enough wood for my needs, so unless a kinetic splitter falls off someones truck in my drive way, I aint likely to own one any time soon.



Exactly. I particularly like how well the expression "different strokes for different folks" applies to this situation. I can dream about a lovely empty warehouse with a functioning waste oil burner and a couple of big three phase splitters, hell throw in a three phase woodmizer too! I can run a forklift around in there and have room galore. I'd also love a fallen-off-the-truck SS. Anyway, just dreams for now, though. I'm in it about $225 for a Gransfors Bruks splitting maul and an X27, so maybe if I set aside $10 every time I split a cord by hand someday I'll be able to afford a decent splitter.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 6, 2016)

Not really that much waste with a multi-wedge unless you reject anything that isn't a "perfect" size. I have a 6 way.

If I adjusted the wedge height constantly I guess it could be "better" but that would slow things down. The smaller popsicle stick pieces go in the stack too. Make good kindling or pieces to stuff into a packed stove to fill the cracks.
On a nice load of logs (stuff with no rot, loose bark, etc I might end with with 1/2 a wheelbarrow of snow and "junk" out of a 2 cord pickup load. (8x12ft bed)

The big stuff (over about 24") we either sell or toss it in a pile and wheel out "old smokey", which is a beat up Iron & Oak with a slow, worn out, oil burning, no muffler splitter and bust the pieces up and then toss them onto the processors.


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## muddstopper (Dec 6, 2016)

Yea. I dont worry much about the waste. I fill 5gal buckets for kindling. bigger pieces get thrown on top of the stacks, and carried to the stove with good wood a gator load at a time. They are great for keeping a bed of coals when you dont need a lot of heat, but dont want to run the furnace either. I use a fel to scoop the split wood for stacking in the shed, once I get down to the point I endup with more dirt and trash than firewood, I dump it in a pile and let turn to dirt. Probably dump a bucket or two a year and its mostly dirt. Not many rejects in my wood pile, if it burns, it goes in my stove. The thing I see about selling wood is customer expectations. They expect to see all nice even sized splits, every piece the exact same lenght and dia, stacked nice and neat inside their sheds or close to the door as possible. A processor spits out what it spits out, with a normal splitter, you can turn the wood this way and that to get similar size wood. Got a Knot, turn the round so the knot splits in half instead of wadding up and breaking in a ball of splinters.* If* I was selling firewood, I would be looking at splitting every piece of wood I could possibly sell, as fast as I could split it. I aint got time to sort uglies or do a ton of resplitting. As a homeowner, I want my wood work done in as short of time period, with the least amount of labor, as possible. I burn about 4 cords a year, not a lot when compared to others in colder climates. I can take my time and scrounge one weekend, buck on another, and split when I get around to it. Or I can bust butt, buy a load of logs, buck and split it in one day and go fishing on those other weekends when I would normally do firewood. I choose/want to get done as quick as possible and spend the rest of my time doing things I enjoy.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 6, 2016)

That's more wood than I burn in my house. Burn around 3 cords, about 1/2 cord a month.


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## Guswhit (Dec 6, 2016)

The Diesel said:


> My brother and uncle have their own log splitters at their house but this one would be at the farm we all hunt where most of the splitting happens. My brother and uncle heat their houses with wood. We heat our hunting cabin with wood and I burn a couple two tree chords in the fireplace at my house.
> 
> I am not sure if it will get split 4 ways, I am just tired of the slow ass splitter we have so was going to buy a new one myself and surprise everyone. It all comes out in wash so not worried about it.
> 
> ...


I'm a little over 2 hrs away if you want to try it out. I have enough cut stacked in a pile that you could do a real good test on. Just let me know.


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## muddstopper (Dec 6, 2016)

Wish there was one somewhere close to me. Probably is, I just havent seen or heard of one.


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## Whitbread (Dec 6, 2016)

8 years ago in ohio I built a huge hydraulic splitter with an 6"x36" ram with an adjustable 4 way and a 24gpm pump. At that time I was getting 2-4' rounds from a friend's tree business. Worked great, but it was loud and I noticed that I was waiting on the hydraulics quite a bit. 4 years ago, I moved to metro Detroit and sold the big hydraulic. I ended up moving up to the woods in northern MI this spring and installed an indoor wood boiler to heat 7500sqft. I tried a few different types of splitters including a SS. That sold me on the spot and I just recieved mine last week and put a 6.5hp diesel on it. I've done about 6 cords with it since Saturday and Im blown away. Even doing the big 2'-4' rounds on my hydraulic with a 4 way I couldn't fill a trailer as fast as I can doing 8"-2' rounds on the SS. I don't remotely miss dealing with wood that big anyway though. It's nice to take the SS out into the woods and not have to bring a tractor out to handle/lift chunks. 

So having had both its my experience that if you know you're going to deal with massive rounds 95% of the time, get a big hydraulic with a multi way wedge and log lift. If you're selectively cutting stuff ~2.5' and under, then you can't beat the SS for speed of production. If you know you're going to get lots of stuff on the bigger side, then the log lift from split second would be a very wise investment.


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## KiwiBro (Dec 6, 2016)

Quite a hike to NZ, sorry fellas. But you could play with a tweaked SS AND a Bilke, and marvel at the latter mowing through small stuff that only the mentally deranged, and the Zogsta, seem to enjoy messing with. Still haven't got a big wood solution. Got ideas but no $.


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 6, 2016)

I've thought about the split second log lift. It's rated at 180 lbs. that would translate to a 20-22" or so diameter round for me. I process to 20" length. Figuring my numbers off of something heavy like oak or hickory at 55-60 lbs/sq. ft. green. Not really that big of a round. Then again as log lifts go it's inexpensive and light duty so to be expected. It would be cool though and would make a nice staging holder for small rounds. Still waiting for Paul to come out with a slightly better and beefier version.


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## muddstopper (Dec 6, 2016)

I watched the Bilke video. Most of what they where splitting would fit in my stove unsplit. 
I am not surprised a 8x36 ram with 24gpm seemed slow, it was probably really slow. You cant make a decent comparison between that splitter and a SS and judge them by speed. To get decent speed out of a splitting ram that size, you would need a 60-70gpm size pump. I will agree, those big rounds are a pain to process, which is why I push them to the side until everything else is split, then take my time getting to them.


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## Whitbread (Dec 6, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> I am not surprised a 8x36 ram with 24gpm seemed slow, it was probably really slow. You cant make a decent comparison between that splitter and a SS and judge them by speed. To get decent speed out of a splitting ram that size, you would need a 60-70gpm size pump. I will agree, those big rounds are a pain to process, which is why I push them to the side until everything else is split, then take my time getting to them.


 I went back and found the receipt in ancient email history for when I had the ram rebuilt and it says 6"x36" so I need to make a correction there. I normally only ran the ram about 20-24" and the cycle time for 24" was right about 11 or 12 secs. The 36" stroke was way overkill for what I needed, but got the cylinder for free so I couldn't complain. I just found that I spent alot of time running the ram back and forth on stuff that would cleanly split after 8" of pushing or had a waste a full cycle time to cut a few strings. That's where the SS is nice that it's a full cycle every time you pull the handle in 3 seconds. Any strings are cut and wood pushed off the end automatically.


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## KiwiBro (Dec 6, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> I watched the Bilke video. Most of what they where splitting would fit in my stove unsplit.


 Can you cut it faster than the Bilke? I haven't found a faster way, but I'm always keen to learn.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 7, 2016)

Sandhill Crane said:


> Perhaps it is not actually the lifting, but rather working bent over without straitening up, or most likely a combination of both. A higher beam might be beneficial, and possibly an auxiliary table next to the beam. Pulp hooks help as well in handling wood in many situations. This is an old splitter raised up. The bench was built of repurposed 4" x 4"s, and some 2" x material bolted up. It can be used on either side of the beam. Note the bench is quite long so it catches one half of a big round after being split, and there is still room to work up the half closest to you. Another benefit is that the bench keeps the split pile away from the splitter a bit. When done the splitter is still easily moved.View attachment 541182
> View attachment 541183



BINGO! That is one of the biggest factors, fatigue wise, that I have found. We used to run a 3 point splitter on the ground in the woods and roll the big ones in. It wasn't rolling the big stuff that got my back. It was leaning over holding the lever to split. I'm 6'5" and when I built mine I made the beam at 38". It's PERFECT for me and at the end of the day I'm not even remotely sore and I've done 3 times as much. Big difference to move something around while standing straight as opposed to leaning over. That includes days when doing smaller stuff, meaning stuff I could lift, and not using the winch. That's the same reason Verticles are bad for me. It's the leaning that will get you. My back would want to spasm when leaning but upright I was fine. Constant pressure at unnatural position I guess.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 7, 2016)

Whitbread said:


> 8 years ago in ohio I built a huge hydraulic splitter with an 8"x36" ram with an adjustable 4 way and a 24gpm pump.



That would be a Loooong cycle time. Sounds like a beast though.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 7, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> I use a boom with winch to pick up the big rounds, Its only when rounds start reaching 4ft dia that I have to noodle anything. The only reason then is because the distance between the boom and the beam wont allow a 4ft round to fit between them. I can pick the round up, but I cant swing it on the beam. I have used the fel to load bigger rounds, but even with a 6way wedge, the pieces are still to big handle by hand. Its just easier to noodle and use the boom to load the smaller pieces.



I can do 5 1/2' okay. Ever thought about raising the boom height or is it a rare enough thing not to warrant the change? I'm an oddball as I find myself not using the multiwedge as much. I mainly just want to get it to handable size for me so I chunk them quickly. With a single wedge I can split 2 pieces of the side and swing the bulk out of the way and have "in air storage" if you will. Nothing hits the ground till it's to size. For dad we split normal size stuff but it's the same system. We'll do all the really big and smaller till we leave all the stuff that will 1/4 to size, then change the wedge. Adjustable 4 way would be nice there but impossible with the swing boom system/wedge on ram. If you have a pusher, I guess that is why you can have in air storage because the chunk would swing.

I'm really looking forward to seeing your beast in action. You've put a lot of thought into that bad boy!


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## Whitbread (Dec 7, 2016)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> That would be a Loooong cycle time. Sounds like a beast though.


I went back and found the rebuild receipt, it was a 6"x36" cylinder, not 8" as I initially recalled. Been a few beers since I built it haha. It was a 12 second cycle to run the ram 24" (made a stop block that dropped over the piston shaft to limit return stroke and kick the valve off when I didn't need 36") which wasn't bad, but an eternity compared to the SS I just got last week. I'm spoiled rotten now.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 7, 2016)

Whitbread said:


> I went back and found the rebuild receipt, it was a 6"x36" cylinder, not 8" as I initially recalled. Been a few beers since I built it haha. It was a 12 second cycle to run the ram 24" (made a stop block that dropped over the piston shaft to limit return stroke and kick the valve off when I didn't need 36") which wasn't bad, but an eternity compared to the SS I just got last week. I'm spoiled rotten now.



BIG difference between 6 and 8 inch! You were running 3.5 inch rod on that? That's a big one. 

Do you run 24" long now wit the super split? They look cute but they just don't fit my needs. I don't noodle anything.


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## Whitbread (Dec 7, 2016)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> BIG difference between 6 and 8 inch! You were running 3.5 inch rod on that? That's a big one.
> 
> Do you run 24" long now wit the super split? They look cute but they just don't fit my needs. I don't noodle anything.


 Yeah sorry, my memory has never been the best to start with and the years certainly aren't helping haha. It was either a 3" or 3.5" shaft, don't recall exactly other than being massive. The ram was a stabilizer jack from a 60's well drilling semi I found abandoned in the woods of Ohio. 

I try to cut about 22-23" logs now although my eyeballs seems to be calibrated to cut 25" and I ended up having to trim a few logs yesterday to get them to fit in the splitter. Still un-training myself on that one. I don't noodle anything either, trees rarely grow that big up here in northern MI with the constant logging over the last 150 years. The state logged about 1000 acres within a 2 mile radius of me so I just got a fuelwood permit from the DNR and I go out and clean up everything the loggers left behind. The largest round chunk I've come across so far has been about 24" so the SS is perfect for the wood I have access to.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 7, 2016)

Whitbread said:


> Yeah sorry, my memory has never been the best to start with and the years certainly aren't helping haha. It was either a 3" or 3.5" shaft, don't recall exactly other than being massive. The ram was a stabilizer jack from a 60's well drilling semi I found abandoned in the woods of Ohio.
> 
> I try to cut about 22-23" logs now although my eyeballs seems to be calibrated to cut 25" and I ended up having to trim a few logs yesterday to get them to fit in the splitter. Still un-training myself on that one. I don't noodle anything either, trees rarely grow that big up here in northern MI with the constant logging over the last 150 years. The state logged about 1000 acres within a 2 mile radius of me so I just got a fuelwood permit from the DNR and I go out and clean up everything the loggers left behind. The largest round chunk I've come across so far has been about 24" so the SS is perfect for the wood I have access to.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## muddstopper (Dec 7, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> Can you cut it faster than the Bilke? I haven't found a faster way, but I'm always keen to learn.


 Sure you can, it just takes money. The Chomper uses a shear to cut and split the wood. All it would take is a big enough cyl with enough pump flow and the hp to to pull the pressure and you could make a stamping type splitter that sheared the log and split it all in one pass. Making it automatic so all you had to do was feed whole logs isnt that hard either. Go with a variable displacement pump and a accumulator and closed center hydraulics with electric valves and limit switches and you can just about make the splitter run 24/7 unattended. Did I mention it takes money?


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## muddstopper (Dec 7, 2016)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> I can do 5 1/2' okay. Ever thought about raising the boom height or is it a rare enough thing not to warrant the change? I'm an oddball as I find myself not using the multiwedge as much. I mainly just want to get it to handable size for me so I chunk them quickly. With a single wedge I can split 2 pieces of the side and swing the bulk out of the way and have "in air storage" if you will. Nothing hits the ground till it's to size. For dad we split normal size stuff but it's the same system. We'll do all the really big and smaller till we leave all the stuff that will 1/4 to size, then change the wedge. Adjustable 4 way would be nice there but impossible with the swing boom system/wedge on ram. If you have a pusher, I guess that is why you can have in air storage because the chunk would swing.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to seeing your beast in action. You've put a lot of thought into that bad boy!


I could raise the boom, but the largest majority of my wood is 2ft and under. I get a few bigger rounds every now and then, but I dont go looking for them. Multi split wedges are not the doall endall solution for big rounds. If you have a 24in round and split into 6 even size splits, every one of those splits is still 12 inches wide. This is why I chose to build a 12way for my processor. A 24in round should give me 12 6in even size splits. Making the wedge adjustable is a must to keep the center of the knife lined up with the center of the round. If every round could be exactly 24 in or 12 in, my twelve way would be perfect, since the wood dont grow that way, even a 12 way wedge will have its tradeoffs. Just have to deal with it. I usually just run everything thru the 6way, which is tall enough I can raise it to just do 4way splits, and then sort out the resplits while stacking. A SS would make a excellent tool for handleing resplits. I really thinkk if I ever decide to go into the firewood business, a SS would be something I would want, just for doing the resplits. I cant see me man handleing a large round while turning it into little splits with a SS machine


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## sam-tip (Dec 7, 2016)

I have both kinetic and hydraulic. The kinetic (SS SE) will split just about anything. But it will tire you out splitting larger knotty wood. Lots of resplits and wrestling the wood. I made a video showing how it handles bigger knotty wood and It took me eight minutes on each piece. I feel I should have used the hydraulic or noodled them in half. But for purpose of showing it could be done I only used the kinetic. For single or double splits the kinetic rules. But to get multiple pieces from a round it becomes heavy work. 

But to get a hydraulic splitter with real speed cost $$$$$ and or time to build. There is no simple answer to the question of kinetic or hydraulic. I have both and still looking for something else. I really like the videos of the perfect clean Japa 435. But still more $. My favorite is my upside down TM skidsteer splitter. Great for boiler wood. Ok for firepit wood.


I even hired a processor. Had to resplit most with the kinetic to get the fireplace size I wanted. The splits would have worked in a boiler but that was not why I saved up good logs for two years.


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## muddstopper (Dec 7, 2016)

Doug, you just confirmed what I had already suspected. Making little pieces out of big pieces takes to long and is to much work. Some one said the SS had a 3sec cycle, not sure if thats accurate, but with perfect size wood to make 4 splits it would take about 12sec, for three strokes. With a decent hyd splitter, w/6sec cycle time, using a 4way wedge, that time could be cut in half, with less handleing of the wood. Watching that last video was painfull


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 7, 2016)

I was doing large Oak rounds yesterday on a SS-HD. A couple rolled on the ground and I had all I wanted to pick up one half after noodling. The rest, I lifted off the cut table and set them down on the staging table, so not really lifting. Often one hit on the SS will split a large round. Just as often it may have to be rolled 180 and run through again, or hit several times. Some consider multiple hit to split a round a fault. It is not. Lifting four fingers a couple extra times is not an issue or me. Sticking a round on an SS is not much work to free it. Sticking one on a hydraulic can be a bit more effort to free it.

Once halved, it is smooth going. Set one half aside on the staging table so there is room to work. Flat side up, take a split off the far edge, then take another split 4" wide, flip that split on it's side and halve that. Repeat, and what you have left is a single piece, the sixth piece from that half. Next half round. If I have a large difficult round on the cut table, it gets noodled before going to the staging table. It is all work. It just makes sense to do what is quickest or easiest. They are not the same by the way. I do not have a do-all machine, or perfect world situation. Quickest or easiest, and move on...

I found quartering with the TW-6 and then resplitting with the SS to be more work, more handling to be specific. If doing big rounds with the TW, then resplitting as I go works best for me with the modified shelf wedge. Again, little to no physical lifting involved, as the big top splits are lifted with hydraulics in place on the four-way shelf. This allows resplitting of the lower two pieces if necessary with the top splits lifted in place and splitting underneath them with the vertical wedge. Once the lower splits are done, slide the top piece closest to me onto the horizontal log lift with a pulp hook, out of the way. (I operate standing between the log lift and hydraulic tank. This also allows me to load the log lift without circling the machine each time.) Then slide the top piece on the far side onto the beam with the pulp hook, no lifting. Lower the four-way shelf so that after the split it can be lifted, releasing the trapped lower split for resplitting if necessary, and repeat. The TW four-way does not lower flat with the beam. It bottoms out on a stepped vertical wedge, making about a four inch high split.
When I quartered rounds on the TW it dumps them on the ground, so then resplit with the SS, each quarter had to be lifted. It added work and possibly more time as well. There is however a difference in the type of splits you get from each machine. If bundling, then resplitting with an SS may very well be the way to go. For me over 18" or so, it is noodling, or if there are several large logs to do, the TW and log lift. I no longer use both in tandem as I thought I might.


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## sam-tip (Dec 7, 2016)

I am all for less handling and less walking around the splitter! I have already broken several 4 ways on several splitters. Thinking maybe horizontal knife type. 

If it was easy everyone would be doing it.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 7, 2016)

I'm not sure how one would break the 4-way wedge on a TW?

Mine has NO damage at all after running hundreds of heavy tough crotches through it. My splitter pushes everything right through the 4-way no problem at all...

Seeing guys struggle with the SS on tough crotches in person, like in the video, is what pushed me to the TW that I bought! It just didn't cost much more than a top of the line SS and it's a LOT more splitter, that easily splits everything...

SR


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## muddstopper (Dec 7, 2016)

The horizonal knife type is how I am thinking about modifying my current splitter. I kind of figure if I add some pull back bars to the pusher plate, I can just throw a big round on the beam and keep cycling the cyl until the big round is whittled down to size. One long horizonal bar with maybe three upright wedges under it and get 4 sticks of wood, with every pass. Bet I could get by with a smaller cyl and increase my cycle times a lot.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 7, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> The horizonal knife type is how I am thinking about modifying my current splitter. I kind of figure if I add some pull back bars to the pusher plate, I can just throw a big round on the beam and keep cycling the cyl until the big round is whittled down to size. One long horizonal bar with maybe three upright wedges under it and get 4 sticks of wood, with every pass. Bet I could get by with a smaller cyl and increase my cycle times a lot.



I considered three TW models. The 5, 6, and 7? Not sure of the number as Timberwolf no longer sells it. It had a box wedge that unbolted and the unit could be used with a bolt -on vertical wedge, w/hydraulic lift four-way and six-way option. I passed on it because the price was another step up, into the $11,000. range, and I had already been using the SS for a year. In hindsight I wish I would have gotten the box wedge model. They seem to make a lot of splitter trash, but they also seem to do a nice job and quickly. Not sure why it was discontinues. It would be interesting to know if it was lack of sales or a design issue with the bolt-on box wedge behind dropping the model.


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 7, 2016)

I have to question the "not much more" than a top of the line supersplitter statement. A hydraulic TW that compares to a ss in production would be a tw5 or tw6. I don't feel as though a 3 point splitter is comparable to a stand alone unit. Not everyone has a decent sized tractor to run one. Compare a Stand alone to stand alone, how much is a tw5 or Tw6? 3 times the price of a SE ss sound about right? I can split 95 percent of my wood using about a gallon or two of gas a day and process over a cord an hour. I'd love a $10,000 timber wolf to quarter the huge stuff I rarely get. Who wants to loan me the money? The supersplitter is the best value for the most productivity. That is hard to argue. Period.


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 7, 2016)

The biggest benefits of a ss imo are:

*low initial cost
*minimal maintenance
*minimum operating costs (gas used per day) items constantly needing replacement, etc.
*easy to maneuver by hand (especially in tight areas and narrow areas)
*American made
*great customer service


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## muddstopper (Dec 7, 2016)

Got to ask, just what is the cycle time for a ss. If I converted my current splitter, which has a 25hp engine, (overkill, but already had) and 28 gpm pump, and used a 4in cyl instead of the current 5inch. I already have the 4inch bore cyl. I could put out 4 pieces of wood every 4.9 sec. If I switched to the horizonal wedge design and used a pull back system to pull the top half back on the beam on the return stroke, I think I could give the SS a run for its money, and not have to work as hard to do it. No turning of the round between each cycle, just throw the round on and pull the levers. I have this working in my head, but not ready to put it together.


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 7, 2016)

Damn computer!!! That 25 hp engine you have wont be using a gallon and a half per day. If a commercial seller were to figure 10 cords a day on either machine I would envision the larger hydraulic machine would use at least 10 gallons of fuel per day, maybe more. I'll assume 10 for now. So instead of 3 dollars a day, its more like $20. Over the course of lets say 300 cords which would be 30 days of splitting, that's over $500 per year extra. That's with gas at $2/gallon which won't last 20 years. So really that $500 is more like $600-$700/year. Over the course of 20 years I would be talking about 10-14 grand. There is that new TW6 I wanted with the savings on gas alone. That's one small portion of the equation. Also factor in I can move the ss to any part of the pile in seconds. No one is moving a tw6 by hand. That's time eaten up. Bringing every piece to the splitter is also time eaten up. This argument could go on forever. I will say my ss is simpler, cheaper, and faster than any machine anywhere near its price point.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 7, 2016)

Check out Wood-Mizer box wedge wood splitters. I believe they bought Tempest. Nice website complete with pricing of splitters and options.
Edit: Note the log lift is an option... an expensive one.


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## RyeThomas (Dec 7, 2016)

I posted my own thread about this delima with prices. I couldn't buy a hydro quick cycle unit made by a known manufacturer for near the price of a SS. 
I couldn't get a unit with a hydraulic adjustable 4 way wedge without spending even more. Having a hydro with a non adjustable wedge I can tell you it's about useless unless you have the perfect size rounds. 
If your talking about making one that's awesome!!! But for most of us making a log splitter is not a reality so you have to pay for a manufactured unit and that's a lot of coin.
I also think some are asking machines to perform outside of there intended realm. If your not going to noodle big crotchety wood, if you need a log lift and handle big rounds all day I don't think a Kinetic was ever intended for that purpose. 
You can make a lot of things work but they work a lot better if you know their limitations and work with them.

Jmo, hope to see my splitter some time soon. Waiting sucks.


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 7, 2016)

Just for comparison sake, here is a video showing a hydraulic splitter that isn't 12 grand going through an ugly. Doug's video showed the first ugly taking about 2 and a half minutes. Note the time it takes this hydraulic.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...1D4EFCB857DDAA0665221D4EFCB857DDAA0&FORM=VIRE


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 7, 2016)

And yes 3 seconds is the correct cycle time


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## muddstopper (Dec 7, 2016)

Not to make this a mine is bigger than yours discussion. That 20ton huskey was pretty pitiful, speed and power.


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## sam-tip (Dec 7, 2016)

SS is about 2.4 to 3 seconds. The Wood Mizer does look nice. Just needs the machine to push the wood back into the slot. They currently have the person sliding the wood back into the cutting position. More work. Not sure how I feel about the dual direction. Making two piles.


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## CaseyForrest (Dec 7, 2016)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Seeing guys struggle with the SS on tough crotches in person, like in the video, is what pushed me to the TW that I bought! *It just didn't cost much more than a top of the line SS and it's a LOT more splitter, that easily splits everything...*
> 
> SR



You keep forgetting to factor in the investment of your power supply.

Ill grant you that you have a nice set-up. But your comparisons between your TW and any other splitter in terms of value is not valid. SS owners don't need an aux hydraulic supply to make them go. Factor the cost of your tractor in with the cost of your TW, the cost of maintenance on the tractor, fuel, hyd oil etc and the numbers start to separate a little.

I could have purchased a TW 3pt splitter, but I don't have enough tractor to make it work to its potential. And my tractor cost $24000 new. So lets factor in a used tractor that does have the ability to make the TW work to its fullest... Ill be conservative for my area but probably looking at a min of another 5 grand. JUST to run the splitter.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 7, 2016)

WHY do you need to spend so much for a tractor?? I already had the tractor, it's made me back WAAAAAAY more than it's cost of $3,500.00 just in jobs I've done for "others", and is worth more than $3,500.00 today...not to mention it came with a Howard rotavator on it that's worth more than $1,000.00 today.

I see deals on tractors all the time, most guys just figure they have to buy new or near new, and that just isn't so...

Anyway, most folks that do firewood, like to have a tractor around, so it's really no big deal. As for maintenance on my tractor it's an oil change once a year. (5 qts.) Plus that little diesel just slooooowly sips fuel, running at half speed...

AND it's ready to do all kinds of OTHER jobs too, (read MAKE MONEY) unlike other splitter power plants.

SR


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 7, 2016)

That is kind of the point Muddstopper. At this "snack bracket" you aren't getting a TW6 with a hydraulic 6 way wedge and hydraulic log lift. Or anything like it. You're getting a slow 18-20ish second cycle time hydraulic with at best a non adjustable 4 way that would not go through those uglies. Granted you could do better than the Huskee, but I don't think it would be any faster than Doug did his ugly piece in. Then factor in that slow cycle time is on every..... single.....piece, not just uglies.

If I had to buy a hydraulic splitter... and I almost did. I would choose this model from American.

http://www.firstgeartrucks.com/amer...h-woodsplitter-w/4-way-wedge-backer-and-pans/

This dealer has very good prices on Saws as well. This model that is now $5,600 used to be $4,900 when I was looking. Couldn't come up with the 5 grand, so I waited and bought my ss instead. Never regretted that decision. I have since used, ironically, the same model American loaned from a friend and it wasn't any faster than a ss. As far as hydraulics go it was a very nice splitter. My biggest complaint was the amount of small splits coming out of the non adjustable 4 way.


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## CaseyForrest (Dec 7, 2016)

RyeThomas said:


> Jmo, hope to see my splitter some time soon. Waiting sucks.



Surprised you don't have it yet. Id make a phone call.


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## CaseyForrest (Dec 7, 2016)

Sawyer Rob said:


> WHY do you need to spend so much for a tractor??



Cost is dependent on functionality and a willingness to accept condition. $5000 isn't an unreasonable number for a tractor with the hydraulic flow or HP to run an independent PTO pump to make the TW use its full productiveness.



Sawyer Rob said:


> I already had the tractor,



That doesn't negate the fact that you still had to purchase it at some point. Not everyone that is buying a splitter has the capacity, funds or need for a tractor with the specifications needed to make your TW run at peak efficiency. The cost of your tractor needs to be included in your comparison to other splitters because without it, your splitter is just a hunk of iron sitting on a block.



Sawyer Rob said:


> it's made me back WAAAAAAY more than it's cost of $3,500.00 just in jobs I've done for "others", and is worth more than $3,500.00 today...not to mention it came with a Howard rotavator on it that's worth more than $1,000.00 today.



Again, your making an apples and oranges comparison. Some folks just want to split wood for their own personal use. Not use it to make money. 

BUT, add that $3500 to the cost of your TW and now we have a real world cost comparison. What did your TW cost you?



Sawyer Rob said:


> I see deals on tractors all the time, most guys just figure they have to buy new or near new, and that just isn't so...



I didn't imply such. I simply placed a new value on a tractor that would leave someone dissatisfied with the results running your splitter. Its why I used a $5000 number to purchase a used tractor. But the fact remains, with your style splitter, one needs an aux hydraulic power unit whether its a tractor or stand alone motor, pump and tank. You're comparing your set up to a stand alone splitter.



Sawyer Rob said:


> Anyway, most folks that do firewood, like to have a tractor around, so it's really no big deal.



My tractor would be useless to me if it was running the splitter. 

And lets be honest.... even you have a *second* tractor thats not dedicated to running your splitter. So add that cost in, too. Because just as you alluded to, having a tractor around is handy. Might as well add in the cost of your wagon too, since its such an important part of your splitting process. And the grapple on your second tractor....



Sawyer Rob said:


> As for maintenance on my tractor it's an oil change once a year. (5 qts.) Plus that little diesel just slooooowly sips fuel, running at half speed...



Ill probably change the oil in my SS once a year, around .5 qts. And it just sips fuel, running just over half speed.



Sawyer Rob said:


> AND it's ready to do all kinds of OTHER jobs too, (read MAKE MONEY) unlike other splitter power plants.



Not if its running the splitter. I can have one of my brood running the splitter while my tractor is off doing other productive things.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. You have a sweet set-up that I am envious of. But its not a valid comparison to Harry homeowner such as myself and 90% of the rest of the board. As you have alluded to in your post above, you have not only the capacity, but opportunity to utilize your equipment more than most. So you can capitalize on the investment more than someone like me. It would not be a good investment for someone like me to iron up to a level you have.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 7, 2016)

Thought you might enjoy these. I was looking at old photos of when I used the log arch. This is a photo of pre log-lift. When raising a family you make do with what you have. I had a good old splitter but not a good way to move wood. Picked up a nice used quad eight years ago when the kids were in college, the arch a few years later. New splitter or... log arch? Saw cut to depth of bar, and one pop with a maul. Not so much work. Like everything else...it gets done one piece at a time. Slowly I acquired the tools I have. Always want more something. There is no perfect splitter under $60,000. The SS comes close enough at $3,300. At times I think of selling the TW as a down payment on a different truck. Always something...





Edit: Kinetic vs hydraulic. It's all about efficiency. For me efficiency is still about handling the firewood before and after the splitting.


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## muddstopper (Dec 7, 2016)

Mine is better than yours because it will do this better than yours will. I think that is the mindset of a few folks. They own what they own, and they like the way it performs so its better than anything else out there. Well they are right, it dont matter if you have a hydr or a kinetic, if it does the job you are looking for, then that is the best type of splitter you can have. There is no doubt in my mind that I can build a hyd splitter that can cycle just as fast as a SS and just blast those ugly crotches apart with a single blow. Its not a matter of whether or not it can be done, I dont need such a machine, so I aint building one. I aint into wrasseling big rounds around on any kind of splitter, so a multisplit wedge will always be in my tool box. A round might start out big, but its one cycle and its into manageble size pieces. Cant do that with a SS or a single split wedge on a hyd splitter either.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 7, 2016)

CaseyForrest said:


> The cost of your tractor needs to be included in your comparison to other splitters because without it, your splitter is just a hunk of iron sitting on a block.



OK, I agree, let's add in the ----------------------> TRUE cost of my tractor...

I paid $3,500.00 for my tractor, it came with a Howard rotavator on it... but WAIT, I put 500 hours on that tractor rotavating and MORE than half of those hours was for customers at $40.00 per hour!

SO, 250 hours x $40.00 per hour = well, you do the math!! lol

The way I see it, that tractor has paid ME to own it!! AND anyone could do the same thing I did, I'm still getting calls to do gardens ect...

SR


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 7, 2016)

I think it is great that a company can build a splitter that customers become passionate about, doesn't matter what company it is, that is a huge accomplishment in itself.


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## Tenderfoot (Dec 7, 2016)

Sandhill Crane said:


> I think it is great that a company can build a splitter that customers become passionate about, doesn't matter what company it is, that is a huge accomplishment in itself.


Ain't that the truth. 



muddstopper said:


> Mine is better than yours because it will do this better than yours will. I think that is the mindset of a few folks. They own what they own, and they like the way it performs so its better than anything else out there. Well they are right, it dont matter if you have a hydr or a kinetic, if it does the job you are looking for, then that is the best type of splitter you can have. There is no doubt in my mind that I can build a hyd splitter that can cycle just as fast as a SS and just blast those ugly crotches apart with a single blow. Its not a matter of whether or not it can be done, I dont need such a machine, so I aint building one. I aint into wrasseling big rounds around on any kind of splitter, so a multisplit wedge will always be in my tool box. A round might start out big, but its one cycle and its into manageble size pieces. Cant do that with a SS or a single split wedge on a hyd splitter either.



I agree. Just make something that works well enough.

I also think that from a business perspective up front cost is a major deciding factor. I have a $1200 splitter. With wood around me (split and seasoned) about $250-$320 a cord it paid for itself after 5 cords for my family. Now, after splitting about 120 or 150 cords (hard to keep track) with it I think it has been worth the cash. It burns about a gallon per cord (high, I know but it is what it is). Considering it has only had oil changes (change it every 5 cords, about a half quart, I get 5w30 for $5 a quart), a spark plug and nothing else it has cost me $475 to split 150 cords, or about $3.17 per cord in operating costs. Not bad In my opinion. If I add that plus the purchase price it is $11.20 per cord, give or take. Also really not bad at all. It is not as fast as a SS but it is a lot cheaper. When I wear it out I can upgrade, but for even the small time firewood guys like me, the cheap machine makes sense. You will run out of space to put wood before you run out of time to split it.


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## muddstopper (Dec 8, 2016)

A lot of emphasis is placed on cycle times, it dont matter how fast a machine can cycle if the operator cant keep it fed. When you look at all the videos of factory splitters, the advertisers main goal is to split as much wood in as short of time as possible. How many here think they can keep up that fast pace for very long. Us older folks aint going to be hoisting up larger rounds or even trying to keep up with a splitter day in and day out. Also, just how accurate of measure is a 3sec cycle time if in between cycles you spend another 3 sec repositioning that same piece of wood for another split. I want the most wood with the least amount of effort in a given amount of time. I can sit and pull levers all day long, been doing that operating equipment for 40 years, what I cant do all day long is pickup and wrassel heavy rounds trying to make little sticks out of big ones. When all these young bucks turn into old bucks with bad knees and shoulders and backs, they too will realize it aint all about being fast.


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## gary courtney (Dec 8, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> A lot of emphasis is placed on cycle times, it dont matter how fast a machine can cycle if the operator cant keep it fed. When you look at all the videos of factory splitters, the advertisers main goal is to split as much wood in as short of time as possible. How many here think they can keep up that fast pace for very long. Us older folks aint going to be hoisting up larger rounds or even trying to keep up with a splitter day in and day out. Also, just how accurate of measure is a 3sec cycle time if in between cycles you spend another 3 sec repositioning that same piece of wood for another split. I want the most wood with the least amount of effort in a given amount of time. I can sit and pull levers all day long, been doing that operating equipment for 40 years, what I cant do all day long is pickup and wrassel heavy rounds trying to make little sticks out of big ones. When all these young bucks turn into old bucks with bad knees and shoulders and backs, they too will realize it aint all about being fast.


i spent an extra 1200 and shaved 11 minutes off the time i spent splitting. this is what this thread has turned to.


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## muddstopper (Dec 8, 2016)

gary courtney said:


> i spent an extra 1200 and shaved 11 minutes off the time i spent splitting. this is what this thread has turned to.


I think it leans more to not buying more than you need.


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## captjack (Dec 12, 2016)

I like the SS , seems like a nice machine for the right set up. If I had smaller trees that I could man handle onto the table with easy it would be perfect. In my case I get mostly red oak - not the perfect straight "no knot" kind but the "what ever the tree service takes down kind" If I had to noodle all those pieces so I could pick them up onto the splitter it would take up a lot of my time. Taking into consideration the entire wood process of your individual set up is important. I have a tw5 Timberwolf and usually split with 3 people - one loading the lift - one running machine and one clearing table to elevator. The Timeberwolf has a much slower cycle time than a kinetic splitter but with the 3 people we cant out run it.


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## muddstopper (Dec 12, 2016)

I would love to own a SS just for resplits. With 5 people, I have split a cord in about 15min, but it was all apple wood, nothing over about 12in dia. Some of it we where stacking two pieces at a time on the splitter. My wedge is 24in tall, which makes stacking smaller rounds possible. Those days aint normal, its usually red oak, 20+in dia and a ton of resplitting to make stove wood size splits. I hardly ever resplit until all the rounds have been reduced to 6 pieces. I throw what ever size split I have on the splitter, make one pass and grab another round. A SS would fit in real nice about then.


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 12, 2016)

I was at my local Stihl dealer the other day and they had a tw2 sitting in the showroom. Looked like a real nice unit. I wish I could justify having two splitters


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## KiwiBro (Dec 12, 2016)

gary courtney said:


> i spent an extra 1200 and shaved 11 minutes off the time i spent splitting. this is what this thread has turned to.


Reminds me of my ironman days. Fat, middle-aged, rich pricks would spend another $5k on their bikes to shave off another 600grams while they carried around 10+kgs of extra fat, the silly bastids. I wasn't a little bit jealous. But it sure felt good to kick their arses on the $400 department store bike handed down to me by my sister. Those were the days. Was running over 100miles a week and felt like superman. Now, I'm a fat, middle-aged, not so rich, prick who can't run a mile.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 12, 2016)

You guys make me smile:


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## muddstopper (Dec 13, 2016)

sirbuildalot said:


> I was at my local Stihl dealer the other day and they had a tw2 sitting in the showroom. Looked like a real nice unit. I wish I could justify having two splitters


Well you know what they say, HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS WINS


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## gary courtney (Dec 13, 2016)

fixing to raise my splitter up to 31" at rail height. and will be adding cradles on each side .will post pics when finished.


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## sirbuildalot (Dec 13, 2016)

More like....HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS......WAS LIKELY KILLED BY HIS WIFE!!!


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 13, 2016)

sirbuildalot said:


> More like....HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS......WAS LIKELY KILLED BY HIS WIFE!!!


 
More like: HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS....NEVER HAD A WIFE! LOL


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## muddstopper (Dec 13, 2016)

sirbuildalot said:


> More like....HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS......WAS LIKELY KILLED BY HIS WIFE!!!





Kevin in Ohio said:


> More like: HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS....NEVER HAD A WIFE! LOL



I have nothing!


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 13, 2016)

HE WHO HAS THE MOST WIVES.........DIES A SLOOOW DEATH!

SR


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