# Newbie Alaskan mill question



## NuggyBuggy (Oct 7, 2011)

I've bought the Granberg Alaskan mill setup for a 48" bar. I first got into chainsaws because I want to mill a big log my neighbour gave me. I got distracted and fascinated by chainsaw repair, but now need to get back on track.

I'm hoping to do a trial run soon (hopefully this weekend) on some smaller logs, maybe 18" wide.

I have an Echo CS8000 (80cc) with a 36" bar that I'm hoping to put to use.

Questions:

1. If I have the 48" Alaskan/Granberg, can I use a smaller bar ? It seems like I ought to, but I wanted to be sure.

2. Both saws have "regular" chain. I don't know what the specs are. I know that ripping chain is supposed to leave a smoother finish and cut quicker. Is this necessary for my first runs ?

3. Auxiliary oiler. I should have ordered one, but my dealer (Lee Valley) didn't sell them and now that I want to get going, of course it is a devil to find one available.

Is it easy enough to make one ? Norwood Industries is about 10 minutes from my cottage but they say their aux oiler




will ONLY work with their mills. Not sure if that's true or not... seems to be simple, but maybe there's just no good way to mount on another mill ? Also, their oiler looks like it just squirt oil on top of the bar... I read that the Granberg oiler puts oil inside the bar.

Does anyone know if I can use the Norwood oiler on a Granberg type mill ?

4. I read about guys using canola oil, others using ATF. Opinions ?

5. I am very sensitive to dust. Thinking about using a powered respirator like the 3m HEPA Airstream which I happen to own:





Would this offer me enough protection compared to a regular saw helmet with shield ? Claims it "Combines NIOSH/MSHA Approved helmeted respirator with ANSI Approved head and eye face protection" but not sure what this means in a chainsaw application.


thanks guys - so excited.
terry


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## hamish (Oct 7, 2011)

Terry,
#1 
YES
#2
not necessary at all, as you sharpen your chain gradually change the top plate angle to 10 degree or less
#3
The Norwood oiler will not work with you mill out of the box, and will require alot of mods to work right. Look up aux oilers on here and you will get a wealth of info. Think simple.......the Norwood oiler its a supersize flintstone vitamin bottle with a brass barb in the bottom of it, coupled to a fuel line, mated to a coupling nut with a simple brass tie in valve mounted to it. All in about $10 bucks at a good hardware store.

#4 use whatever you want, canola is going to leave a sticky mess and atf is too light to stick around..........theres a reason they make bar oil

#5 the airstream is ok, but mainly to reduce fogging, if you are sensitive to dust and airborne particles, you may have your hands full, as milling produces alot. Give the Airstream a try, the fines in your nose and mouth afterwards as well as your well being will be an indication if it worked, and you already have one..............I sand blasted a truck frame wearing a army gas mask back years ago, worked great!

Jeremy


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## gemniii (Oct 7, 2011)

#5 - I think a HELMETED respirator is overkill for milling. You've got the log flat, nothing should be falling from above. I'd go with a decent breathing filter and good hand, eye and ear protection.

Most people report making more fine sawdust milling than crosscutting. You'll also have a lot of close 2stroke fumes until you get fancy.


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## BobL (Oct 7, 2011)

I think hamish has nailed most of the questions.

RE; Canola: 
I would not use canola in my saw but it is fine for an Aux oiler. If the Aux oiler is fitted on the cutting side of the bar it does not need to be sticky and I find it does not leave a sticky mess because it is easily flung off the drive sprocket with the sawdust.

RE; Helmet/ Respirator
I also have some sensitivities and have a similar respirator made by Triton but I rarely use it except when milling small pieces of bone dry hardwoods. The Helmeted respirator is FAR better and more comfortable than any nose/mouth gas mask respirator. Most people don't realize that if you are sensitive in the nose/mouth area your eyes will be as well. The Helmet is somewhat irrelevant - it's just a support mechanism so the air stream can flow up from the filter located behind the operator and wash down over the operators eyes nose and mouth. The triton has a high clarity full wrap around polycarbonate face shield so that it can easily be flipped up and out of the way. This is much easier than removing a gas mask. 

One thing that really helps is to just get your head as far away from the saw exhaust and saw dust exit as possible.
The problem with using most CS without any exhaust mods is when milling the top half of the log, the exhaust gases bounce upwards into the operators face.
This problem can be reduced by using a remote throttle and if necessary modding the exhaust so that it directs the exhaust and sawdust away from the operator. 
Have a look at my "BIL mill with 880" link in my sig below.

A cheaper solution that gets the operator even further away is using a combination of a remote throttle and winch. Have a look in Will Malloff's book on "Chainsaw lumbermaking" or in the sticky (permanent first thread on this forum) for ideas on winches.

The other very significant issue is not to over use 2-stroke lube in your mix. Lube has all sorts of gunk in it that is largely invisible so there is a tendency to use more than necessary in mix. I have a threshold of about 30:1, when I go below this mix ratio I will eventually get a headache.


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## NuggyBuggy (Oct 10, 2011)

Gentlemen, 

Thanks for your replies ! I had my first go at this weekend - with not much success. I decided to go without auxiliary oiler while I "played" on a smaller (18") log... mainly because the light was going to be falling, I didn't have time to rig something up, and I really felt the need to have at least a short trial.

I will be trying to run vegetable oil. The guy at my local shop convinced me that, because I will be milling close to a stream that feeds our lake, and because we take our water from a well, that it was the responsible and safe thing to do.

I had an aluminum ladder which I planned to use to guide my first cut, but discovered it was warped. So I screwed in a 2x10 to the top and planned to use that. Now, since there was some taper in the log, I expected that the board would sag when I got a few feet into the cut, but I had already decided that if I made it that far, I was going to be ecstatic and would have learned a lot.

Although I only managed to make it about 6" into my first log, it wasn't a wasted exercise: I still did learn a lot.

1- I need to learn how to move and position logs into places where I can work them better. These logs were somewhat crosswise on each other in a shallow depression on my property, with saplings and other trees nearby. I had to cut one just to be able to have a narrow path along the operator side of the log, and working along that length wouldn't have been easy - or perhaps safe. 

2- I discovered my Echo CS8000 was hard to start when sideways on the mill. Actually, I couldn't start it at all. Not sure if that is normal.

3- Consequently, I had to start the saw off the log and then carrying the mill and mounting on the guide while running. I didn't feel safe mounting the mill and running saw, even with chain brake on. 

4- The saw, 36" bar, mill, and full tank of gas can feel pretty heavy and awkward.

5. When trying to get the saw into the cut, I quickly found myself behind the mill. This also didn't seem safe as my abdomen just seemed very accessible to that blade. All it would take would have been a stumble. I realized I need to study videos of the mill in operation more. I expected this to be one of the trickier parts for a newbie. 

6. When I finally got into wood, the saw wasn't moving very fast. But, I didn't run ripping chain, and I never have done this, so I don't honestly know what to expect, so maybe that was normal. 

After a few inches I decided that I didn't feel safe, learned a few things I needed to know more about before I would feel safe, and decided to call it an experience.

I'll have another go at it next weekend, I hope.

thanks everyone !
terry


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## mtngun (Oct 10, 2011)

NuggyBuggy said:


> 5. When trying to get the saw into the cut, I quickly found myself behind the mill. This also didn't seem safe as my abdomen just seemed very accessible to that blade. All it would take would have been a stumble. I realized I need to study videos of the mill in operation more. I expected this to be one of the trickier parts for a newbie.


Your guide board should protrude about 12" beyond the end of the log, that way your mill is supported by the guide board when starting and ending the cut.


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## 820wards (Oct 11, 2011)

NuggyBuggy



> 3. Auxiliary oiler. I should have ordered one, but my dealer (Lee Valley) didn't sell them and now that I want to get going, of course it is a devil to find one available.



Here is a the link to a auxiliary oilier I built for a friends Alaskan mill. Simple to build and it works good. You can use what ever bottle you like for the oil bottle as long as it can adapt to a pipe fitting.

jerry-

http://www.arboristsite.com/milling-saw-mills/155667.htm


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## gemniii (Oct 11, 2011)

NuggyBuggy said:


> <snip>
> 2- I discovered my Echo CS8000 was hard to start when sideways on the mill. Actually, I couldn't start it at all. Not sure if that is normal.


If it won't start laying on it's side off the mill it may need fixing. Sometimes you just have to stop the saw part way thru the cut, then restart it. Not recommended, but it happens.



NuggyBuggy said:


> 3- Consequently, I had to start the saw off the log and then carrying the mill and mounting on the guide while running. I didn't feel safe mounting the mill and running saw, even with chain brake on.


I never feel "safe" running a chain saw unless I've taken the chain off 


NuggyBuggy said:


> 4- The saw, 36" bar, mill, and full tank of gas can feel pretty heavy and awkward.


Try swinging a 660 w/ 42" bar and an aux oiler.


NuggyBuggy said:


> 5. When trying to get the saw into the cut, I quickly found myself behind the mill. This also didn't seem safe as my abdomen just seemed very accessible to that blade. All it would take would have been a stumble. I realized I need to study videos of the mill in operation more. I expected this to be one of the trickier parts for a newbie.


like mntgun wrote have your "rail system" extend in front and back of the cut far enough so you can get your rails on it.



NuggyBuggy said:


> 6. When I finally got into wood, the saw wasn't moving very fast. But, I didn't run ripping chain, and I never have done this, so I don't honestly know what to expect, so maybe that was normal.


Read some of mntgun's excellent posts on cut speed. Unless your cutting REAL SOFT wood it's going to be slow.


NuggyBuggy said:


> After a few inches I decided that I didn't feel safe, learned a few things I needed to know more about before I would feel safe, and decided to call it an experience.
> 
> I'll have another go at it next weekend, I hope.
> 
> ...


Others will disagree but I feel "safe" as I write this, sitting in my Laz-Boy. As soon as I fire up one of my saws with a chain on it I feel about as safe as when I used to hurtle down the road on my Harley or flying in a Huey with the doors off so I could shoot out. Just be WELL AWARE of the dangers, plan to avoid them, prepare for their results IF they happen and forge on. I usually wear a full range of PPE when doing "serious" chain saw use. Thankfully so far my most serious injury has been when I reached across a NON-RUNNING chain, nicked my forearm and lost a bit of blood.
Don't get complacent, running chainsaws are dangerous, bu so isn't most things in life that are exciting.

/edit - I was shooting 70mm Hasselblads out of the Huey's.


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## hamish (Oct 11, 2011)

gemniii said:


> /edit - I was shooting 70mm Hasselblads out of the Huey's.



Thats a camera isn't it................


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## NuggyBuggy (Oct 11, 2011)

I actually bought 3 Hassy 500-series bodies within the last 2 years thinking I was going to get into film and medium format... then life got in the way. When I took my first hassy out, people would give me a wide berth and study whatever it was I was shooting, as if I was a real pro  I don't get nearly the same sort of respect when I pull out my D700. But I'd guess that shooting action with that body has to be challenging.


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## bigjohn1895 (Oct 12, 2011)

i would like to note that a chainsaw is safer then an angle grinder but when they bite they bite harder


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## NuggyBuggy (Oct 26, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your replies. I wanted to let you all know that I managed to mill my first, very short, board.

Finding time is really hard as my wood and saws are at my cottage and when I am up there, my young kids are always wanting me to do something with them. This weekend, I was feeling especially motivated. I still hadn't learned how to sharpen a chain (let alone to ripping specs) or procured a ladder; I hadn't figured out how to support it, and also hadn't figured out how to move the logs somewhere I could safely work them, AND hadn't built an aux oiler, but as I said I felt motivated and didn't want to waste that feeling. I tend to be one of those paralysis-by-analysis guys.

I realized I could secure the ladder with tie-downs and cut up to the first strap, then cross cut the piece free. I figured I could make those cuts safely, going any farther would require more climbing over logs than I figured would be safe. Here's a picture of the setup (after I made the cut and removed the ladder), as I look at it now I think it was probably a bit more hazardous than I thought it was, because for some of it I am kneeling or standing on the other logs.






Anyways, I guessed that even milling a small piece would teach me a few things, such as how fast I could expect milling to proceed and how hard it was.

So I setup the 36" bar on my Echo CS8000, and decided to go at it with straight cross-cut chain. 

Maybe 5-10 minutes later, I had about 2-3' of what to me was a beautiful looking board. I didn't cut more because we were going to go home soon and I didn't have a long enough cut to ride very far with the mill.

I learned the following things:
- I REALLY need to learn how to move the logs. 
- Getting the saw into the wood definitely seemed to be the most dangerous part. I felt like I had to lean on the mill to get it into the cut, and it seemed like a little slip could easily bring me in contact with all that still-unexposed chain.
- I know milling was said to be hard work, but I underestimated just how hard. My back and right shoulder were sore afterwards. Now I know the log was lower than is ideal, and I may have been pushing into it harder than I should. As I said, I really need to learn how to move the logs.

But the most important things I learned were:
- I can do it !
- the wood can be beautiful, and it's a satisfying feeling knowing that I did it.
- it's fun !

Here's a picture of what I cut, right off the tree:





With some water on it to show more of the grain:





Now I know that this is all nothing special to you guys, but I was really proud of myself. I am about the least likely guy you would ever imagine would be working with big chainsaws milling wood. My buddy who was up and my neighbour were also amazed and impressed that I managed to do it after nearly a year of talking about trying it.


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## mtngun (Oct 26, 2011)

Congratulations !  Thanks for the pics.


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## BobL (Oct 26, 2011)

NuggyBuggy said:


> I learned the following things:
> - I REALLY need to learn how to move the logs.


Look up "cant hooks" on the forum



> - Getting the saw into the wood definitely seemed to be the most dangerous part. I felt like I had to lean on the mill to get it into the cut, and it seemed like a little slip could easily bring me in contact with all that still-unexposed chain.


I've had 60" chains come off maybe half a dozen time and all have been decidedly unspectacular events. I have only ever broken on chain and that also was quite unspectacular.
The most dangerous thing about any milling activity is just driving to the site
Have you seen my personal risk assessment list for milling in the Milling 101 sticky?
In regards being worried bout lifting a running saw - if you have a chain brake then use it otherwise it's just a matter of getting used to it.



> - I know milling was said to be hard work, but I underestimated just how hard. My back and right shoulder were sore afterwards. Now I know the log was lower than is ideal, and I may have been pushing into it harder than I should.



Like any chain sawing pushing should minimal. If you are pushing hard and getting a sore back from such a short cut something is not right - start by getting and keeping the chain razor sharp and make sure the rakers are set correctly. 9 out 10 saws I see the rakers are WAY too high.


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## NuggyBuggy (Oct 26, 2011)

Thanks Bob.



BobL said:


> Look up "cant hooks" on the forum


I have started reading about cant hooks and peaveys. However, the real log I want to mill is maybe 3-4 times wider than the ones shown there, I'm guessing maybe 30" diameter and 40' long. It's also on my neighbour's property separated by a fairly dense treeline and stream, so I'm looking at either milling it there or moving it to my property and doing it there. Because of the dust created, I'm thinking he'd appreciate it if I did it on my property....

When I was doing a search on moving logs, it seems most of the guys were talking about using bobcats, backhoes, ATVs and winches.



BobL said:


> Have you seen my personal risk assessment list for milling in the Milling 101 sticky?


Yup, I've seen that list, point taken I used to surf a lot, and the most dangerous thing about it was pulling a U-turn into a parking spot on the Pacific Coast Highway.


BobL said:


> In regards being worried bout lifting a running saw - if you have a chain brake then use it otherwise it's just a matter of getting used to it.


I do use the chain brake, and I was able to start my saw while on the mill, so that's not an issue any more. I might just not have had enough fuel in it the first time. Or not eaten my Wheaties.



BobL said:


> Like any chain sawing pushing should minimal. If you are pushing hard and getting a sore back from such a short cut something is not right - start by getting and keeping the chain razor sharp and make sure the rakers are set correctly. 9 out 10 saws I see the rakers are WAY too high.


Chain was very sharp. Not sure about how the rakers were set. Maybe I was pushing too much, I don't know. This was my first cut so I have no experience as to what is enough. I do believe some or most of the back pain was coming from being stooped over to handle the mill. If I could lift it as seen in some of your pictures, among others, I'm sure that would make things much easier. I'm already thinking about fastening the handles of the mill to some sort of winch or ratcheting mechanism so that I can pull the saw while standing. And trying to understand your remote throttle !

Thanks again Bob.
terry


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## locdogg (Oct 27, 2011)

i'm a newbie too, but after having milled a few logs--------- get that log up off the ground and get one end higher so you can mill downhill a bit. it's waaaay easier than pushing on your knees.


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## Marcintosh (Oct 28, 2011)

*log handling video*

I lurk here a fair amount but this thread really interested me and I'd like to contribute to the fray 

I learned a great deal from this video- no I don't have one of these and I don't work for them but the info might just give you an idea on how to move logs. It helped me figure out a better system and that I needed a cant hook

Logosol M5 | Sawmills | LOGOSOL

These guys have some great gear as well. Not that you should buy any but perhaps you could make something similar
LogRite Tools logging tools

If you poke around, they also feature some great "how to use this gear" videos as well.

BTW you don't mention the use of wedges or that you are planning on using wedges but I use them to take the weight off the saw's bar. I always use plastic wedges so if I have a problem I don't chew the chain up. Yeah it gets a bit pricey in the beginning but when you get the hang of remembering you put one in behind the bar on the other side, you'll be all set.

G'luck
M


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## NuggyBuggy (Oct 29, 2011)

I found that Logosol link very interesting, Thanks marcintosh. Gives me better ideas as to how to get a log to a better working height.

I just bought a Logrite peavey. There are no Logrite retailers near me and I really wanted one this weekend. I emailed Logrite and Tammy told me that they also make the Stihl peaveys and cant hooks, and that that probably the fastest way to get one. One of my local dealers had them in stock, and this beauty was about 15$ cheaper than the only wooden handled one I could find readily available locally. This was the first time I'd ever used one (mind you, this is pretty much true for everything I do mill- or saw-related), but I was astounded at how easily one could move things !

And yeah, I did buy a bunch of plastic wedges, I have about 8 Stihls that I grabbed off the shelf. At first I started with 3 but as I get closer to doing larger boards, I decided to not be a cheapskate.


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## Marcintosh (Oct 30, 2011)

*back again*



NuggyBuggy said:


> I found that Logosol link very interesting, Thanks marcintosh. Gives me better ideas as to how to get a log to a better working height.
> 
> I just bought a Logrite peavey. There are no Logrite retailers near me and I really wanted one this weekend. I emailed Logrite and Tammy told me that they also make the Stihl peaveys and cant hooks, and that that probably the fastest way to get one. One of my local dealers had them in stock, and this beauty was about 15$ cheaper than the only wooden handled one I could find readily available locally. This was the first time I'd ever used one (mind you, this is pretty much true for everything I do mill- or saw-related), but I was astounded at how easily one could move things !
> 
> And yeah, I did buy a bunch of plastic wedges, I have about 8 Stihls that I grabbed off the shelf. At first I started with 3 but as I get closer to doing larger boards, I decided to not be a cheapskate.


 
One of the things I like about those videos and the way they show different methods to keep the log out of the dirt. Never fails, I buy a new chain and second log I'm diggin' spuds with it. *&^*%!! 

When you have time you might want to watch all the videos on both sites. The Logosol site has some great designs for raising logs and things you can make yourself. 
The Logrite site just gives me ideas on how to get things done. I live about 75 minutes away from them but about a million bucks distant, if you catch my drift.

I've got a Stihl cant hook I've used for a while now and I haven't even chipped the paint. Tough stuff. To go along with it I bought the log jack which is sort of handy for me. You latch onto the log and rock back onto the jack and it lifts the log. The property I work on is pretty wet so I have to bring a chunk of 3/4" plywood to sit the jack on. Otherwise it can sink into the mud and becomes useless. Sometimes the 18"x18" ply isn't big enough (big log - softer than usual dirt) I have to bed in a few branches underneath the ply to help stop the whole mess from sinking. 

You're slabbing off planks and timbers though so a log jack most likely isn't going to help much OTOH, they're only about $20-$30 or so. You could lift one end and block it then move to the other end and lift that end so perhaps they might just be the system you're looking for.

I would like to point out though, be sure to block the log so it doesn't roll before you start your process, make sure it *can't* roll. A buddy ended up hobbling out of the woods with a smashed ankle so there's that to think of. Which also makes a case for pulling the log out of the woods to civilization and working on it there. (Wear chaps and other safety gear and ALWAYS carry a cell phone, in case the unthinkable happens)

When I'm pulling out of the woods I try to leave the top of the tree on and put the butt end on an old trailer axle I've got and tow that behind my little garden tractor. Leaving the top on means it can be a PITA working it between trees and you have to get rid of it when you get where you're going but it also means there's less dirt packed into the bark. Mind you, when I do that I'm working a tree that's only about 50-60 years old and usually ash not maple or oak so in general they're less than a foot across and not as heavy as lead.

I've been told that there are aluminum wedges as well and that they don't take your chain either but I've never seen one in use or for sale so I can't say one way or the other.

Thanks for posting pictures and please keep doing it. It can be a cramp in the butt but it's great to see others work and nobody knows everything so, you're teaching someone.

M.


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## rarefish383 (Nov 1, 2011)

Bright yellow or orange wedges are nice in the woods. But, most of the time I just grab a dead twig and stick it in the cut and break it off. I've also used tapered door shims that you get at the hardware store in bundles for a couple bucks, Joe.


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## NuggyBuggy (Dec 5, 2011)

I thought I'd post an update. This project is taking longer than I ever expected. Since I can only mill or even see my saws on the weekend, and since I have young kids, every weekend it seems I'm trying to solve some problem or another. Last week my problem was discovering that my first 076 was pulling the chain at idle. After some work investigating and replacing the clutch springs and bearings to no avail, I discovered that the oiler lug seems to somehow be bound to my crankshaft. My dealer couldn't get parts for two weeks, but fortunately I had another 076 so I switched bars and chain. For some reason it takes me forever to put that chain on each time, I must be doing something wrong.

Anyways... this past weekend my kids and wife stayed in town for a birthday party. I took the opportunity to go up and see what I could do, even though the forecast called for rain. I decided to tackle the big log for fear that I might never otherwise get around to doing it. Fortunately, my old neighbour - probably closer to 70 than 60 - who gave me the log seems to have taken an interest in the project, so he wants to help any chance he gets, although he can be pretty stubborn. We cut the bottom off it - it was way wider than the rest of my log, then cut one ~10' or so piece off the bottom.

I bought the Granberg slabbing rails and attached that to two 2x 4 x 12s. Got to cutting pretty well, I made the first slab with less than a tank of gas but then right at the very end of the cut, as the bar was exiting, it threw the chain off. A few of the drive links were banged up a bit so that they would no longer fit into the bar. My neighbour and I argued a bit about what to do - I wanted to put on a new chain, he wanted to bang the old chain into the bar and let friction take over, we decided to put a new chain on. But after struggling mightily to put it on, it started raining, so we called it a day, after only cutting one slab. It took so long because the wood was not on my property and it seemed every 5 minutes I was hiking back to my place to pick up something else I had forgotten.

And boy, that 2" slab was HEAVY.

The next day, I got my other neighbour involved. He has a small backhoe, so we cut the rest of the log in half leaving us three ~10' sections, then hauled them off to near the shelter where I plan to dry the wood. The first section was heavy enough that he needed me hanging off the back of the machine to get it over a few humps. He estimated it to be about 1800 lbs.

He laid the sections on some stumps, and then had to leave so my old neighbour and I started working again. For some reason, this time I could only make it about halfway through the log before needing to refuel. The engine started revving really high before dying out. We were a bit deeper into the wood so I guess the cut was a few inches wider, but it still didn't seem like it should make that much difference. I had to refuel the 076 in the log so I could only get about 1/4 of a tank and had to refill once more. After about 3 hours of work, we only milled two boards, and we quit because it really started raining and it was getting mucky.

Again, this may be nothing special to some of you vets, but the wood really surprised me with its beauty. I think the rain did a lot to bring out the grain. Can anyone speculate as to species ? My older neighbour says white oak; my other neighbour thinks red oak or ash.


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## BobL (Dec 5, 2011)

NuggyBuggy said:


> .
> .
> .
> .
> ...



I's say the chain just got blunt. 

Be careful when the saw starts revving like that just before it runs out of fuel. This happens because the saw is running out of fuel and aspirating too much air relative to the available fuel - if the saw has been working hard and is already on the borderline of overheating it may even seize the engine. If it starts doing this, stop revving the saw immediately and let it cool down a little before it runs out of fuel completely.

Running out of fuel mid slab is a PITA. If you can find one there are plastic right angle adapters that screw into the fuel tank which enable the tank to be almost completely filled.


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## Old Blue (Dec 5, 2011)

*Way to go !*

Your misadventures sound just like mine did. Always taking more time than you would think it possibley could. That and the fact that the milling falls to the bottom of the priority list after everything else, especially if ya got kids and a family. I suspect that if we keep a mental llist of all the stuff needed, that it will start going more smoothly and better timewise. A lot of the regular milling guys around here are good motivation for improving your game plan.

The wood looks really nice and the log has some nice size to it. Thanks for posting the pics. I think your off to a great start. :msp_thumbup:

Old Blue
Oppressive regulation with maximum taxation in
Kali-bone-ya


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## Marcintosh (Dec 5, 2011)

NuggyBuggy said:


> I thought I'd post an update.
> 
> Again, this may be nothing special to some of you vets, but the wood really surprised me with its beauty. I think the rain did a lot to bring out the grain. Can anyone speculate as to species ? My older neighbour says white oak; my other neighbour thinks red oak or ash.



I think the hidden beauty is one of the best reasons to "have a look inside". I don't know anyone that has anything to do with wood that doesn't appreciate the beauty of it. Even the most mercenary sawyer will pull a board aside now and again.

Got an iPhone/iPod? there's an app for that :biggrin: Seriously! It's called I.D. Wood. I can't remember if it was free or I paid for it but if it was $100 I'd buy it again. I heartily recommend it. That little app couldn't tell me though if the tree you've got there was White or Red Oak I'd want to compare the (drier) wood to the image. I doubt it's Ash but, as I'm not standing there looking at it, I can tell you it's not Brazilian Rosewood. :smile2: If I had to though I'd offer White Oak but then again, it's a guess from miles away.

Also I agree with the "runaway" chainsaw revs. Lean out the fuel mix too much and kiss that cylinder goodbye. Couple of times? No big deal but now you know. As an aside, they do wail don't they?


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## NuggyBuggy (Dec 5, 2011)

Old Blue said:


> Your misadventures sound just like mine did. Always taking more time than you would think it possibley could. ...
> 
> The wood looks really nice and the log has some nice size to it. Thanks for posting the pics. I think your off to a great start. :msp_thumbup:


Thanks for the words of encouragement ! If you were to meet me, I'd be the last guy you'd expect to see running a chainsaw, let alone big ones. My neighbours have all run chainsaws for decades and they thought I was crazy when I first started talking about it, then buying big chainsaws. They are all impressed now :msp_tongue: And I'm getting a helluva lot stronger hauling that 076 and mill around...



BobL said:


> I's say the chain just got blunt.


That would seem likely, except that I was running a new chain on my first pass that day. It felt slow pretty much from the start. Now, I get to learn how to sharpen chains...

Also, running the hard-nose bar was a little tricky. It definitely seems like there's a lot more resistance than with my sprocket nose bar on my little 250, but that's also a lot less bar. I also don't know how tight to set the chain - I understand looser than with a sprocket-nose, but I'm not sure how much looser. I set the tension pretty tight my first pass, knowing it would stretch out. It was hanging pretty loose after that pass. 

I'm thinking about investing in a sprocket nose bar to run my 36" 3/8 ripping chains (bought some Carlton stuff off Ebay), if that make things even a tad easier on the saw, but the 36" Stihl Super ES bars listed on Bailey's don't list compatibility with the bigger Stihls - only bigger than 36" bars do. Do I need an adapter to run a 36" ES on an 076 ? 



BobL said:


> Be careful when the saw starts revving like that just before it runs out of fuel. This happens because the saw is running out of fuel and aspirating too much air relative to the available fuel - if the saw has been working hard and is already on the borderline of overheating it may even seize the engine. If it starts doing this, stop revving the saw immediately and let it cool down a little before it runs out of fuel completely.


Point taken. At this point, my neighbour was running the saw (I wanted to throw him a bone and let him have some of the fun, because he really has been very helpful). When the saw was revving I was trying to tell him to turn it off... but he couldn't hear me over the saw, the ear muffs, and the fact that he does what he wants to do :msp_tongue: Fortunately, the saw didn't blow up/

Bob, I've seen you refer to those elbows before and also seen you comment that they are hard to find Do you have a part # or a picture ? Do you think it's possible to fashion one ?

Oh yes. I forgot to mention one thing: this stuff is FUN !!


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## NuggyBuggy (Dec 5, 2011)

One more thing... at the bottom of the picture you can see a splash of sealer that I had put on the end, and a few small voids. When I applied more sealer in the void, a bunch of insects started spilling out of there and dying in the sealer. I'm guessing they're termites... I should have taken a picture.

What's the best way to handle this ? Crosscut the end until there's no more void ? Apply some sort of insectide and let them all die inside the log ? Blow smoke in there ? Other ?


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## gemniii (Dec 6, 2011)

NuggyBuggy said:


> <snip> but the 36" Stihl Super ES bars listed on Bailey's don't list compatibility with the bigger Stihls - only bigger than 36" bars do. Do I need an adapter to run a 36" ES on an 076 ?


Call Bailey's - they can probably get the larger mount.


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## BobL (Dec 6, 2011)

NuggyBuggy said:


> That would seem likely, except that I was running a new chain on my first pass that day. It felt slow pretty much from the start. Now, I get to learn how to sharpen chains...


Some new chains have too shallow a raker-cutter-wood angle. ie the rakers are too high. This is even more of a problem if it is regular chain and the top plate filing angle is refiled to 10º but the rakers are not attended to. 



> Also, running the hard-nose bar was a little tricky. It definitely seems like there's a lot more resistance than with my sprocket nose bar on my little 250, but that's also a lot less bar. I also don't know how tight to set the chain - I understand looser than with a sprocket-nose, but I'm not sure how much looser. I set the tension pretty tight my first pass, knowing it would stretch out. It was hanging pretty loose after that pass.


With a new chain on a sprocket nose I mill about 2 ft and then check the tension, then mill the rest of the cut and then check tension whereas on a hardnose I maybe check tension 2-3 times during the first cut. This was one reason why I started playing around with a mill that tensioned the chain at the outboard end rather than the inboard.



> Point taken. At this point, my neighbour was running the saw (I wanted to throw him a bone and let him have some of the fun, because he really has been very helpful). When the saw was revving I was trying to tell him to turn it off... but he couldn't hear me over the saw, the ear muffs, and the fact that he does what he wants to do :msp_tongue: Fortunately, the saw didn't blow up


Before I let anyone run my mills I set up a visual/hand signal that tells them to stop cutting and stop teh saw immediately - I used to use a simple hand up sign but I changed that to a time-out sign to stop milling and a hand movement across the throat to stop the saw. Remember to get the attention from in front and not to do things like tap them on the shoulder from behind.



> Bob, I've seen you refer to those elbows before and also seen you comment that they are hard to find Do you have a part # or a picture ? Do you think it's possible to fashion one ?


This is not the one I was thinking of but I wonder of it fits a regular 076?
NEW STIHL TS 510 760 GAS FUEL TANK VENT ELBOW CONNECTOR | eBay



> Oh yes. I forgot to mention one thing: this stuff is FUN !!


You betcha it is!


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## mtngun (Dec 6, 2011)

NuggyBuggy said:


> I also don't know how tight to set the chain - I understand looser than with a sprocket-nose, but I'm not sure how much looser.


 Very, very loose. The loose-ness is only a problem when you are beginning the cut, you'll have to take care that the chain stays in the bar groove and doesn't derail. Once the bar is buried in wood, then the loose-ness doesn't hurt anything and it reduces friction. 


> Do I need an adapter to run a 36" ES on an 076 ?


 You need a bar that is made for the large Stihls.

Thanks for the pics.


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## NuggyBuggy (Dec 6, 2011)

mtngun said:


> #You need a bar that is made for the large Stihls.
> Thanks for the pics.


Hmm... finding a bar for the larger Stihls is proving to be a bit difficult. #

gemnii, I have an email into Baileys but would much rather buy locally - not only to save money, but because cross-border shipping can take forever. I also have a call into my dealer but haven't been able to get a hold of him since last week which is a little annoying.
I used Bailey's bar selector and the only 36" bar I can find that specifies compatibility with the 076 AND the same # of drive links as my Stihl Duromatic is this one:
Bailey's - 36" Carlton Premium Sprocket Tip Bar
(they both specify 104 .404" DL, so I am assuming that they would both require the same # of 3/8" DL).

Could I buy this bar and then replace the tip with a 3/8" sprocket and be good ?


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## WadePatton (Dec 6, 2011)

on species: appears to be oaken in grain and color, but i don't trust monitor colours so here's the my favorite test for species: Grab a handful of fresh sawdust or put your nose to a _just cut_ piece of the wood in question. If the wood smells like whiskey, it's white oak, if it smells like wine, red oak. If you don't drink, find an imbiber and enlist them.

colorwise, white oak is more tan than red. also 1/2 again more dense and tough than red oak. either is a good challenge for the novice millster.

also, if it smells like cosmetics, it's cherry. cat piss = black locust or sassafrass.

red/white oak-red oak has a darker and deeper furrowed bark. White oaks, light--nearly white-not like sycamore, but lighter than most anything else, but mebbe ash and elm.
and often quite smooth.

Methinks I'm going to get a 20" and start cleaning up tops of our current logging op-mostly yellow poplar.


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## gemniii (Dec 6, 2011)

NuggyBuggy said:


> <snip>
> gemnii, I have an email into Baileys but would much rather buy locally - not only to save money, but because cross-border shipping can take forever.


There's a member of Arboristsite in Canada who deals on ebay, on ebay his handle is "thechainsayguy", he deals a lot with the larger stihls.


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## Talltom (Dec 6, 2011)

Your chain jumped the bar on exiting because it was loose and got pinched. Did you use shims to keep the kerf open? Throwing a chain will screw up the bottom of the drive links. You can try filing them down so they'll fit in the groove again or replace the damaged links. I wouldn't recommend using that chain unless it moves freely on the bar. A solid nose bar has plenty of resistance already. I have a solid nose 24" bar and it's a PITA. I tighten it so that I can just move the chain by hand. It seems to cut OK but I know I'm losing horsepower. 

The big plastic wedges are overkill for keeping the kerf open when milling. I use cedar shim shingles which come in handy for other uses as well. The bigger wedges are so thick that they don't go in very far and tend to fall out while milling. I save the plastic wedges and some bigger wedges I made myself out of beech to stabilize logs and for felling. 

The bark on the log looks too thick for white oak; it may be red oak. Termites are white and don't stay in the tree after it's felled. They go back to their nest in the ground or die. Carpenter ants are more likely. They're 3/8 - 1/2 inch long and black. They do nest in the wood, preferring soft wood that has started to decay, like the hole in the center of that log where the pith used to be. They love red oak, which tends to get heart rot. No need to use insecticide or cut it shorter. Only smoke the log if you've got nothing better to smoke. Just cut up the log and brush away the bugs afterwards. You will want to trim away the rotten center anyway. It may go well up into the log. The semicircular split in the bottom half of the log looks like ring shake. If it is, that part won't make very good slabs. You may still get some good boards out of it, but you won't know what you've got until you cut it.


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## NuggyBuggy (Dec 6, 2011)

gemniii said:


> There's a member of Arboristsite in Canada who deals on ebay, on ebay his handle is "thechainsayguy", he deals a lot with the larger stihls.



Thanks for that link. I had seen his store but not found anything that seemed as if it would work. Knowing he's an AS member, however, I have now sent him a message. 



Talltom said:


> Your chain jumped the bar on exiting because it was loose and got pinched. Did you use shims to keep the kerf open? Throwing a chain will screw up the bottom of the drive links. You can try filing them down so they'll fit in the groove again or replace the damaged links. I wouldn't recommend using that chain unless it moves freely on the bar. A solid nose bar has plenty of resistance already. I have a solid nose 24" bar and it's a PITA. I tighten it so that I can just move the chain by hand. It seems to cut OK but I know I'm losing horsepower.
> 
> The big plastic wedges are overkill for keeping the kerf open when milling. I use cedar shim shingles which come in handy for other uses as well. The bigger wedges are so thick that they don't go in very far and tend to fall out while milling. I save the plastic wedges and some bigger wedges I made myself out of beech to stabilize logs and for felling.
> 
> The bark on the log looks too thick for white oak; it may be red oak. Termites are white and don't stay in the tree after it's felled. They go back to their nest in the ground or die. Carpenter ants are more likely. They're 3/8 - 1/2 inch long and black. They do nest in the wood, preferring soft wood that has started to decay, like the hole in the center of that log where the pith used to be. They love red oak, which tends to get heart rot. No need to use insecticide or cut it shorter. Only smoke the log if you've got nothing better to smoke. Just cut up the log and brush away the bugs afterwards. You will want to trim away the rotten center anyway. It may go well up into the log. The semicircular split in the bottom half of the log looks like ring shake. If it is, that part won't make very good slabs. You may still get some good boards out of it, but you won't know what you've got until you cut it.



Talltom, thanks. I did use the big plastic wedges to try and keep the kerf open. I had gone to Home Depot because I thought I had seen a bunch of shims for fairly cheap years ago, certainly cheaper than the wedges were, but I couldn't find any. I'll have to try again.

The insects I found were indeed black. How long would it take for ants to get up into the wood ? Because I looked at the other side of that log that would have been cut the night before, and couldn't see any voids. It's gotta take longer for them to dig a hole in a log, than one night, no ?


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## Talltom (Dec 6, 2011)

By other side, do you mean other end? Is it lower or higher on the tree? They don't work that fast, and they do come up from the ground. Did they come out of the center or the shake? Based on the size of either, it would seem that there must be a corresponding defect in the matching end.


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## NuggyBuggy (Dec 6, 2011)

Talltom said:


> By other side, do you mean other end? Is it lower or higher on the tree? They don't work that fast, and they do come up from the ground. Did they come out of the center or the shake? Based on the size of either, it would seem that there must be a corresponding defect in the matching end.



I meant the part of the log that would have been on the other side of the cut revealing the holes. The only thing I can think of is that this was the bottom section ... I cut off the flare at the bottom but didn't check that part as my neighbour said he wanted it for a coffee table. 

I have to say, when we first cut and moved the logs, we didn't notice any bugs. It was only when I put the sealer on the log and some of it got in there that I noticed them. They were packed in tight. None crawling around the log. Hopefully they didn't get up much higher.


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## WadePatton (Dec 6, 2011)

Talltom said:


> Y
> The bark on the log looks too thick for white oak; ... Termites are white and don't stay in the tree after it's felled. They go back to their nest in the ground or die. Carpenter ants are more likely.


agreed on bark. carpenter ants are Ace o' Spades black. termites leave a ton of fine dirt in the wood, ants not so much dirt, if any-just holes/caverns. i'll notice closer next time. have both.


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## Talltom (Dec 7, 2011)

Probably in the piece you cut off. Ants move very slowly when its cold - they stay where they are over winter unless disturbed. No matter - you need to cut the log to see how high the defects go in it. If you had a way to quarter the log, you could isolate the shake defect in one quarter and have clear lumber in the other three, but it is not easy to quartersaw with a slabbing mill. The pith defect will need to be trimmed out, but you can still get nice slabs by gluing the halves back together or, better yet, bookmatching the halves from the same side.


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## mldrenen (Dec 8, 2011)

the bark and grain look like some type of pine to my eyes. there also appears to be a bit of pitch on the bottom right side of the crosscut. red and white oak have a very distinctive grain that isn't easily mistaken, and i'm certain that this log is neither.

what does it smell like when freshly cut?


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## NuggyBuggy (Dec 8, 2011)

mldrenen said:


> the bark and grain look like some type of pine to my eyes. there also appears to be a bit of pitch on the bottom right side of the crosscut. red and white oak have a very distinctive grain that isn't easily mistaken, and i'm certain that this log is neither.
> 
> what does it smell like when freshly cut?


I don't remember it smelling very strongly.


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## WadePatton (Dec 8, 2011)

NuggyBuggy said:


> I don't remember it smelling very strongly.



can't mistake the smell of the famous mopping water flavoring. (in the case of pine-surely you would have noticed)

many woods don't smell strongly--but most are _distinct_. you gotta get your nose down in there and sniff them grain. the nose knows...or will learn rather quickly.

oh and if it smells like a dog wet from falling into an open cesspit just two days after it got doused by a skunk--it might be chinese elm. that stuff is just rank.

I'll bet if you make a fresh cut and bag some shavings and send them to a dozen AS'ers, you'll get a _positive_ ID.


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