# DR Rapid Fire Rack & Pinion



## VTWoodChucker

DR has introduced a rack & pinion splitter. 

World's Fastest Log Splitter - DR RapidFire - YouTube

Anybody see one yet?


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## avalancher

VTWoodChucker said:


> DR has introduced a rack & pinion splitter.
> 
> World's Fastest Log Splitter - DR RapidFire - YouTube
> 
> Anybody see on yet?



Havent seen one yet, but it infuriated me to no end in their video when they showed the old guy using a hydraulic splitter in comparison. Yeah, hydraulics are slower for sure,but the operator himself was about the slowest moving guy ever, not to mention he let the ram go almost all the way back before chunking the wood up on the beam while being timed.


You want to convince me to buy the thing, show me how well it does busting through some nasty pecan chunks, and compare it to a skilled guy using a hydraulic splitter who is actually trying to get through some cords in one day.


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## MNGuns

I wonder if Paul sold out, or did DR just make a real good copy. Looks like an orange SS to me...


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## VTWoodChucker

It's identical. Here's a video 

Under the Hood - DR RapidFire Log Splitters - YouTube


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## 046

patents probably expired... that design has been around for a long time



MNGuns said:


> I wonder if Paul sold out, or did DR just make a real good copy. Looks like an orange SS to me...


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## Hedgerow

MNGuns said:


> I wonder if Paul sold out, or did DR just make a real good copy. Looks like an orange SS to me...


 
That's kinda what I was thinking... DR is a marketing machine. They can take a SS and sell the hell out of it...


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## Coldfront

I guess no price on them yet that I can find anywhere. Has to be in the same range as the SS I would think.


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## dingeryote

DR dosn't make anything themselves.

They market the crap out of other folks products though, and are darn good at it.

Slap the DR name on a super split and jack the price a smidge, and after a gazillion TV commercials, they will quadruple sales.

Not a bad move on the part of SS if so.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Axe Man

I'd never heard of DR until I read this post. Googled DR wood splitters and checked out their 22 ton model.........$2000. Almost fell off my chair. Why would anybody buy this over priced equipment? Seems to be similar to a Speedco. Even here in Canada ( the land of the bent over ) you can get a 22 ton splitter for $1500.
What's the deal with DR?


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## logbutcher

DR/Country Home Products IS a model marketing machine. Think of the LL Bean mission: any return, anytime (with rare exceptions).

DR products are sold not only with an unconditional 6 month return ( NO questions asked...really ), but the products come with excellent toll-free technical product service, parts usually free even beyond warranty, and excellent quality. The DR warranty is not one of those "fine print", legal things. The only thing that will drive you batty is the background 'music': bird singing.

So choose your value vs cost. It's why some choose Stihl, or Subaru, or Glock, or ..............

JMNSHO


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## ponyexpress976

Axe Man said:


> I'd never heard of DR until I read this post. Googled DR wood splitters and checked out their 22 ton model.........$2000. Almost fell off my chair. Why would anybody buy this over priced equipment? Seems to be similar to a Speedco. Even here in Canada ( the land of the bent over ) you can get a 22 ton splitter for $1500.
> What's the deal with DR?


 
Around here DR can be found parked in the garage of a weekend warrior. Several of my lawn customers have their equipment. None of it ever gets used. As far as quality goes (keep in mind I haven't used it, just looked it over) build and materials are somewhere between homeowner grade and commercial grade. One guy has a 10yr old power wagon with 9.5yrs of dust on it. I asked if he would sell it....his asking price was $50 less than new...he said it with a straight face.


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## ponyexpress976

avalancher said:


> Havent seen one yet, but it infuriated me to no end in their video when they showed the old guy using a hydraulic splitter in comparison. Yeah, hydraulics are slower for sure,but the operator himself was about the slowest moving guy ever, not to mention he let the ram go almost all the way back before chunking the wood up on the beam while being timed.
> 
> 
> You want to convince me to buy the thing, show me how well it does busting through some nasty pecan chunks, and compare it to a skilled guy using a hydraulic splitter who is actually trying to get through some cords in one day.[/QUOTE
> 
> based on the speed of the ram on the hydraulic, the motor was barely idling. Talk about pushing the boundaries of truthful advertising.


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## Iron man

I thought the video was a crock also.First I thought the old guy was gonna drop dead lifting that small piece of wood.Then the speed comparison was a joke at best.If all hydraulic splitters were that slow axes would be flying off the shelves.Id be interested in seeing comments on you tube when they start getting them.


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## LAH

Quicker than my TW.


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## Cmccul8146

Out of curiosity, I called DR today to compare their price to the SS. The DR will not be available until sometime after Sept. 1st. I was told their manual start model will be priced at $2295 & the electric start will be $2495. The patents on these mechanical splitters have long since expired, so anyone can legally build & sell them. The DR uses the same principal as SS, but the cam to engage the gears is quite different. I told the guy I spoke with that their claim as the World's Fastest Splitter is baloney. The video says it's a 3 second cycle time, whereas the SS is 2 1/2 second cycle. My homebuilt SS copy has a 1.9 to 2.1 second cycle time, but my pinion gear has a much bigger pitch diameter than either the SS or DR. I only run my engine at half throttle & turn my flywheels (102 lbs each ) at 160 rpm. Haven't split any pecan, but splits hickory, elm, & sweet gum just fine. Oak & maple are a breeze.


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## zogger

*Trimmer*



Axe Man said:


> I'd never heard of DR until I read this post. Googled DR wood splitters and checked out their 22 ton model.........$2000. Almost fell off my chair. Why would anybody buy this over priced equipment? Seems to be similar to a Speedco. Even here in Canada ( the land of the bent over ) you can get a 22 ton splitter for $1500.
> What's the deal with DR?



I have an old model non self propelled DR string trimmer, walk behind kind. Kicks boot-tay deluxe. It's heavy, that's why I guess they went to self propelled. Has a Kaw engine cranks first or second pull every time, even after sitting up all winter. Swings a mean fat string. You can walk it right through the thickest bramble patches, stuff like that, all the way to sapling thickets, small ones, but still...I take it and use it where I can't get the tractor and bush hawg easy.

They may be just a marketing company, but they pick and choose what they decide to market. I guess that's what you are paying for, that and support.


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## RichL

*DR RapidFire*

Where will these splitters be available? Does DR only ship direct to the consumer or do they use retail outlets also?


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## Blazin

"Splits anything in it's path"  As long as you got that "pretty" wood it will


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## mooseracing

ponyexpress976 said:


> avalancher said:
> 
> 
> 
> Havent seen one yet, but it infuriated me to no end in their video when they showed the old guy using a hydraulic splitter in comparison. Yeah, hydraulics are slower for sure,but the operator himself was about the slowest moving guy ever, not to mention he let the ram go almost all the way back before chunking the wood up on the beam while being timed.
> 
> 
> You want to convince me to buy the thing, show me how well it does busting through some nasty pecan chunks, and compare it to a skilled guy using a hydraulic splitter who is actually trying to get through some cords in one day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> based on the speed of the ram on the hydraulic, the motor was barely idling. Talk about pushing the boundaries of truthful advertising.
Click to expand...

 

ehh just like every advertiser out there. 





Knowing DR though I can't afford it. I also don't understand why no one is making it with larger tires and wider stance


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## sunfish

Probably will not be the quality of the Super Split. But it is interesting...


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## STLfirewood

I have a DR power wagon. I bought it for $250 it needed carb work. It is a great machine. Dad has a DR walk behind brush mower. It has cut a ton and been through the ringer. He has actually cut 12 acre fields with it. They are great when it comes to parts and tech service. Can't say anything about the splitter I have never used one. I have had such good luck with my SS That I would spend a couple hundred more to stay with a SS then to try something new.

Scott


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## MNGuns

The one thing that caught my eye onthe DR are the "guides" welded to the table on each side of the beam. The SS does not have these andthe table is near flush to the beam allowing you to quickly slide the round back onto the beam. Once you develop a rythem it goes rather quickly. I think the guides would prevent this. You would thnk as well that DR would have put a little effort into working on the one big downfall of the SS....mobility. Put a third wheel under the front with a quick-tach handle or something. I found that a trailer jack bolted to the leg makes it easier to move.


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## mesupra

The rack & pinion seems like the way to go for speed, has anybody checked out the WoodWolf made in New Hampshire? Seems like a well built machine. Using a chongda style engine the price seems reasonable at just under 2gs.


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## sunfish

mesupra said:


> The rack & pinion seems like the way to go for speed, has anybody checked out the WoodWolf made in New Hampshire? Seems like a well built machine. Using a chongda style engine the price seems reasonable at just under 2gs.


 
I tried to order a WoodWolf last summer, but the guy wouldn't call me back. Found out he was way behind on orders (something like 70 machines) and no parts in stock. Talked to one guy that had been waiting over a year and still had no idea when he'd get one. The Wolf is also half the weight of the Super Split and uses a lot of cheaper parts. 

I order a Super Split shortly after and got it in two weeks. *Love it!*


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## DR POWER

Hope you don't mind me jumping in - I'm Michael, the Product Manager for the new Rapid Splitter product line from DR.

Thought I could answer a couple of the questions raised. First thing I'd like to point out is that we actually manufacture most every product we sell under the DR brand right here in our factory in Vermont. The final assembly line for the new Rapid-Fire is actually being tuned up right now, and with a few exceptions most of the components are US made (one notable exception is the superb Subaru engines)

While the product was definitely inspired by the amazing Super-Split, we've made many refinements, including a set of transport handles to make the unit easier to move around. It was not finished before the videos were shot, but will be on all production models. Some of the other changes you've noticed are driven by safety and performance considerations, such as the engagement handle activated in the direction of the splitting action rather than an up/down motion. We've also added a few patent pending features TO IMPROVE PERFORMANCE that I can't yet share.

As for the price and quality of DR products I'd like to think our reputation speaks for itself. Over 25 years we've serviced almost 1 million customers, and our owner satisfaction surveys report that on average 95% of customers tell us they would recommend their DR to a family member or friend (and they do!), which we think is the ultimate test. Do they cost more than the average box store product? You bet. But it's not because of our advertising -- we actually spend less on advertising than the discount we need to give to retailers when we sell our products to them wholesale. The reason (FOR THE HIGHER PRICE) is because we build them to last, and because we'll stand behind them to the end. We have DR Trimmer Mower customers like zogger who have machines from 20+ years ago that can still call us toll free to order spare parts or receive knowledgeable tech support. We know not everyone BUYS EQUIPMENT TO LAST A LIFETIME BUT WE SLEEP BETTER KNOWING THAT OUR EQUIPMENT STAYS OUT IN THE FIELD AND NOT IN THE REPAIR SHOP.

Thanks for letting me jump in. I'll keep an eye on the forum for any further questions, but you can feel free to contact me directly. Thanks, Michael.


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## avalancher

DR POWER said:


> Hope you don't mind me jumping in - I'm Michael, the Product Manager for the new Rapid Splitter product line from DR.
> 
> Thought I could answer a couple of the questions raised. First thing I'd like to point out is that we actually manufacture most every product we sell under the DR brand right here in our factory in Vermont. The final assembly line for the new Rapid-Fire is actually being tuned up right now, and with a few exceptions most of the components are US made (one notable exception is the superb Subaru engines)
> 
> While the product was definitely inspired by the amazing Super-Split, we've made many refinements, including a set of transport handles to make the unit easier to move around. It was not finished before the videos were shot, but will be on all production models. Some of the other changes you've noticed are driven by safety and performance considerations, such as the engagement handle activated in the direction of the splitting action rather than an up/down motion. # We've also added a few patent pending features TO IMPROVE PERFORMANCE that I can't yet share.
> #
> As for the price and quality of DR products I'd like to think our reputation speaks for itself. #Over 25 years we've serviced almost 1 million customers, and our owner satisfaction surveys report that on average 95% of customers tell us they would recommend their DR to a family member or friend (and they do!), which we think is the ultimate test. #Do they cost more than the average box store product? #You bet. #But it's not because of our advertising -- we actually spend less on advertising than the discount we need to give to retailers when we sell our products to them wholesale. #The reason (FOR THE HIGHER PRICE) is because we build them to last, and because we'll stand behind them to the end. #We have DR Trimmer Mower customers like zogger who have machines from 20+ years ago that can still call us toll free to order spare parts or receive knowledgeable tech support. #We know not everyone BUYS EQUIPMENT TO LAST A LIFETIME BUT WE SLEEP BETTER KNOWING THAT OUR EQUIPMENT STAYS OUT IN THE FIELD AND NOT IN THE REPAIR SHOP.
> #
> Thanks for letting me jump in. #I'll keep an eye on the forum for any further questions, but you can feel free to contact me directly. #Thanks, Michael.



Thanks for all the info Michael, but get that keyboard fixed. The # key on your board must be stuck or something?LOL


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## DR POWER

Cleaned that up -- thanks avalancher for the feedback.


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## avalancher

DR POWER said:


> Cleaned that up -- thanks avalancher for the feedback.



Just teasing the new guy! Welcome to Arboristsite, we all appreciate reps from manufacturers chiming in and addressing questions. Here, you will find one of the greatest bunch of guys from all walks of life, and I personally will be watching this thread with some interest. While I just purchased a new splitter myself, I have given some thought to a SS type of splitter in addition to my hydraulic splitter to speed up the process. Sell anywhere between 60-90 cords a year, not a big operation. What is the warranty period for your new machine if its used in a commercial application?


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## beerman6

DR POWER said:


> Cleaned that up -- thanks avalancher for the feedback.


 Is there a weight limit on this thing?

I have some red oak logs that measure 23" long by 26" across.On our shipping scale they weighed in at 476lbs.

Can I toss one of these up there?


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## dave_dj1

I can't say anything good or bad about the DR splitter but 30 years ago a buddy of mine had a SS and I used it on every kind of knotty twisted stuff you could imagine and never had any problems with it. I have seen a fair amount of DR equipment (my FIL has some) and I will say it is very well built.


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## MNGuns

So out of curiosity DR, please tell me/us, even if the patent is up, why would you make such a blatent exact copy of somebody else's work..? Why not use the mechanics, and put forth a little effort more than orange paint..? Carry handle, and soon to be released upgrades aside, it still looks exactly like another mans work.


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## mesupra

MNGuns,

I think everybody who has had experience with the SS could better answer that question.


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## Cmccul8146

MNGuns said:


> So out of curiosity DR, please tell me/us, even if the patent is up, why would you make such a blatent exact copy of somebody else's work..? Why not use the mechanics, and put forth a little effort more than orange paint..? Carry handle, and soon to be released upgrades aside, it still looks exactly like another mans work.


 
MNGuns, if you think about it, no matter who makes one of these flywheel splitters, there is very little that can be changed & maintain speed & functionality. You still need a motor, clutch, belts, flywheels, rack & pinion, beam, wedge, return springs , a means to attach the ram to the beam, and a cam to engage gears. I haven't done any searches to confirm it, but I was told the flywheel splitter was originally invented in the very early 1900's. The Woodwolf & Gripo are even more exact copies of the SS than the DR. Unless Paul has redesigned his cam mechanism since 2007 when I first saw him at a demo , DR did redesign that. I do agree that the SS is the best splitter of this type on the market, but whoever clones one is going to be very similar to a SS if it's going to split any wood. Whatever color you paint it, the mechanics are still going to be quite similar.


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## MNGuns

Cmccul8146 said:


> MNGuns, if you think about it, no matter who makes one of these flywheel splitters, there is very little that can be changed & maintain speed & functionality. You still need a motor, clutch, belts, flywheels, rack & pinion, beam, wedge, return springs , a means to attach the ram to the beam, and a cam to engage gears. I haven't done any searches to confirm it, but I was told the flywheel splitter was originally invented in the very early 1900's. The Woodwolf & Gripo are even more exact copies of the SS than the DR. Unless Paul has redesigned his cam mechanism since 2007 when I first saw him at a demo , DR did redesign that. I do agree that the SS is the best splitter of this type on the market, but whoever clones one is going to be very similar to a SS if it's going to split any wood. Whatever color you paint it, the mechanics are still going to be quite similar.


 
I agree that the mechanics of the machine are hard get away from, but can you honestly tell me, that the DR is not an orange SS with a new sticker..? There are improvements that could be made to the ergonomics of the machine, and the way it attaches to the running gear, etc. that would have given the DR a different look all together and not appear as just another clone.

While the patent for the automobile did expired long ago, we're not all riding around in different colored Model T's.....


<img src="http://www.greenvalleycompressor.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/Honda5.jpg"><br>
<img src="http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00ivptwSNKrGzB/Honda-Copy-Gasoline-Engine.jpg">


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## sunfish

I'm with ya MNGuns.

Looks like one could unbolt the table of the Dr and bolt it on the SS. Just one example...


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## MNGuns

I also noticed in the video that the operator appears to have to hold the handle down to activate the ram. Is there no auto cycle on this machine...? The SS takes just a quick flip and you can grab another round while it does it's thing.


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## Iron Mike

beerman6 said:


> Is there a weight limit on this thing?
> 
> I have some red oak logs that measure 23" long by 26" across.On our shipping scale they weighed in at 476lbs.
> 
> Can I toss one of these up there?


 
Well, ..they are your nuts, mistreat em however you want.


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## Cmccul8146

MNGuns said:


> I also noticed in the video that the operator appears to have to hold the handle down to activate the ram. Is there no auto cycle on this machine...? The SS takes just a quick flip and you can grab another round while it does it's thing.


 
MNGuns & Sunfish, I agree with both of you that there are a lot of similarities between the SS and the DR. Look at this video & you'll see some of the differences, and yes, it does have the autocycle. You can see that in this 'under the hood' video.

Under the Hood - DR RapidFire Log Splitters - YouTube 

And I agree with the poster who commented on the " log guides" on the table. While they will keep a round from rolling, I think they will be a PITA after the 1st split is made. Regardless of who assembles them, or anything else for that matter, purchased partes are contracted out to the lowest bidder who can supply parts in a timely manner. That may also explain some of the similariteis, such as the Subaru motor, simple table design ,etc. No matter the reason for the similarities, I believe that both are very well built machines, but the SS is still my pick as the best.


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## DR POWER

*Dr commercial warranty*

Thanks for welcoming me!

This is a commercial machine and we're offering a full 2 year warranty. We also have our 1 year "Hands On Trial" -- buy a Rapid Fire and if it doesn't meet all of your expectations than We'll take it back for a full refund (less return shipping).


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## DR POWER

Sunfish,
You're right the DR is pretty darn close in design to the SS (we've made some improvements including more HP and others already discussed) -- but we took the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach. Paul, and his father before him, build an awesome machine and it's design has proven extremely durable. Why change that?

What we've set out to do is make these machines more broadly available, at a reasonable Price and backed-up by exceptional customer service.


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## dancan

DR POWER said:


> Sunfish,
> You're right the DR is pretty darn close in design to the SS (we've made some improvements including more HP and others already discussed) -- but we took the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach. Paul, and his father before him, build an awesome machine and it's design has proven extremely durable. Why change that?
> 
> What we've set out to do is make these machines more broadly available, at a reasonable Price and backed-up by exceptional customer service.


 
Better you than the Chinese , nothing against China but ....
I hope it's a success !


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## MNGuns

DR POWER said:


> Sunfish,
> You're right the DR is pretty darn close in design to the SS (we've made some improvements including more HP and others already discussed) -- but we took the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach. Paul, and his father before him, build an awesome machine and it's design has proven extremely durable. Why change that?
> 
> What we've set out to do is make these machines more broadly available, at a reasonable Price and backed-up by exceptional customer service.




OK...Let me get this straight...Paul and his father before built such a great machine, that your high budget commercial operation is going to do him the "favor" of mass producing his machine under your own name, while taking away from his own business....? That sounds AWESOME...!! Why change what we can copy for free...?


Needless to say, your morals and business ethics greatly differ from my own.


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## MNGuns

dancan said:


> Better you than the Chinese , nothing against China but ....
> I hope it's a success !



Better you than the Chinese...? :msp_thumbdn:


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## dancan

DR will make a product that will be in the same price range as SS , the Chinese will be much cheaper .
Some basic band saw mill are starting to pop up that are made in China , a lot cheaper than similar designed quality North American made models in which most of these mills look the same .
A 330 conibear trap looks like any other 330 regardless of who or where it was made but they're not all the same so users buy what works for them , there are many other examples of this .
I'm not defending DR and have no affiliation with them or any of their products but it is a free market .
Just sayin .


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## MNGuns

I'm all for free market, and understand there are only but so many ways to make a nail, a hanger, spoon, etc. Common items. If DR, or anybody else for that matter, wants to produce a rack style splitter I'm all for. I am not for reverse engineering a product and calling it your own. 

While the SS is a great machine, it is flawed. Had DR or another manufacturer taken the time to really study the product, talk to some owners, use it for a year or two, they would have been able to address the issues and build an even better machine. The SS doesn't need a new cam design, and handles aren't going to do much to change the fact the the thing is a pig to move any more than a few yards. Everyone keeps trying to move the machine from the end that the wood comes off of. Turn it around. Let me tow it from the engine end so I can back it right up to my truck or conveyor and get to work without monkeying around with handle, tow bars, jacks, etc. Make some real changes to the machine, and you will have a product worthy of putting your name on.


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## dancan

MNGuns , I see your point and agree , it just wasn't as clear in your earlier posts (could have been just me ) .
I think you're ideas on making the machine better are spot on , may be SS or DR are paying attention because innovation is important .


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## Pcoz88

Very interested!!!


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## sunfish

I also can't stand the "reverse engineering" knock-off stuff we commonly see coming out of China.

Maybe this is a good opportunity for Paul at SS to bring out a 'New Model'. Just sayin...


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## MNGuns

sunfish said:


> I also can't stand the "reverse engineering" knock-off stuff we commonly see coming out of China.
> 
> Maybe this is a good opportunity for Paul at SS to bring out a 'New Model'. Just sayin...



And while we're at it, I think the "New Model" should have a torsion axle with 15" tires, rated for hiway travel and a set of brake lights. While it will make for a longer, wider machine, it will also make it more solid and allow easier travel from woodlot to woodlot. I have a picture in my head were somebody interested to see it...


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## sunfish

DR POWER said:


> Sunfish,
> You're right the DR is pretty darn close in design to the SS (we've made some improvements including *more HP* and others already discussed) -- but we took the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach. Paul, and his father before him, build an awesome machine and it's design has proven extremely durable. Why change that?
> 
> What we've set out to do is make these machines more broadly available, at a reasonable Price and backed-up by exceptional customer service.


And while we're at it... 

This speaks volumes about the quality and design of the Super Split.

I'll also add, the customer service from Paul at SS is stellar!

And the heavy duty model SS has a 6hp motor, same as the new DR. But it's not needed, as mine has 4hp and it's more than enough...


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## Pcoz88

Is any body going to buy one?!?!?!? It looks very interesting!!


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## Pcoz88

I got a shipping quote 200.00 to me in nw ohio.Its 299.00 for table.For what there selling them for they should come with table!!


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## dancan

Cmccul8146 said:


> My homebuilt SS copy has a 1.9 to 2.1 second cycle time, but my pinion gear has a much bigger pitch diameter than either the SS or DR. I only run my engine at half throttle & turn my flywheels (102 lbs each ) at 160 rpm. Haven't split any pecan, but splits hickory, elm, & sweet gum just fine. Oak & maple are a breeze.


 
Not meaning to hijack this thread but did you have a thread on this build ?


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## mesupra

Dancan,

Any pictures of your machine, specs, etc. I would like to see the cost comparison of building a mechanical splitter vs hydro.

Thanks


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## Cmccul8146

dancan said:


> did you have a thread on this build ?



dancan, at the time that I built my splitter, there was a thread on here entitled " Anyone try to build a Super Splitter" Here's a link to it. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/111335-2.htm

Pictures on page 3, I think. I finished it in Jan. 2010, except for flywheel covers,which I still have not put on it. As I am the only one who runs it, I'm in no rush to make them at all. I did upgrade to one of the Greyhound 6.5 hp motors from Harbor Freight, but the old 38 yr old 3 hp I started with was plenty motor for it. Upgraded to get the bigger fuel tank & fuel shut off valve. Old motor had a 1 quart tank & any fuel left in it after splitting was GONE next time I was ready to split. Evaporation ,or leaking into engine I don't know, but that's not an issue anymore. Mine is built based on the SS, but was basically built from memory of one I'd seen at a demo 3 years earlier. Quite a few differences in mine & the SS, but same basic principal.


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## Hddnis

MNGuns said:


> So out of curiosity DR, please tell me/us, even if the patent is up, why would you make such a blatent exact copy of somebody else's work..? Why not use the mechanics, and put forth a little effort more than orange paint..? Carry handle, and soon to be released upgrades aside, it still looks exactly like another mans work.






I found the perfect splitter for you.


Crazy cool log splitter homemade guillotine - YouTube




Mr. HE


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## MNGuns

Hddnis said:


> I found the perfect splitter for you.
> 
> 
> Crazy cool log splitter homemade guillotine - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



As far as log splitters go, I would have to say that is a fairly original idea certain not to be copied....:msp_thumbup:


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## Pcoz88

Bump


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## Locust Cutter

MNGuns said:


> And while we're at it, I think the "New Model" should have a torsion axle with 15" tires, rated for hiway travel and a set of brake lights. While it will make for a longer, wider machine, it will also make it more solid and allow easier travel from woodlot to woodlot. I have a picture in my head were somebody interested to see it...


 
"Highway capable" shouldn't mean 30mph,... If I'm not splitting at my house, my closest "Large scale cutting area" is about 47 miles away. I shouldn't have to (VERY) carefully load a splitter on a trailer, to transport it out there to the wood. I also don't think I should have to pay TW/Built-rite/Split-right/etc prices, just to get that convenience. The a fore mentioned splitters are wonderful machines, if that's what your looking for. My Speeco has busted the biggest rounds that I've ever dared to put under it. I would like to have a flywheel splitter for less than 100lb pieces, to speed up the process, in order to have more time with my babies. I just don't have $3500 laying around right now for a SS HD model. If the DR model is about as good as an SS for a lesser cost (copy or not) I may end up buying it. I'm all for integrity and ingenuity, but I'm also grounded in the reality of my finances, or lack thereof. If I could find a SS style splitter, built to the same standards/material quality, with the changes that MN and I have referenced for $1800-2500 max, with a sufficient powerplant and slightly heavier flywheels, (mid-western knotty hardwood), I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I do apologize for the run-on sentence.


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## sunfish

Locust Cutter said:


> "Highway capable" shouldn't mean 30mph,... If I'm not splitting at my house, my closest "Large scale cutting area" is about 47 miles away. I shouldn't have to (VERY) carefully load a splitter on a trailer, to transport it out there to the wood. I also don't think I should have to pay TW/Built-rite/Split-right/etc prices, just to get that convenience. The a fore mentioned splitters are wonderful machines, if that's what your looking for. My Speeco has busted the biggest rounds that I've ever dared to put under it. I would like to have a flywheel splitter for less than 100lb pieces, to speed up the process, in order to have more time with my babies. I just don't have $3500 laying around right now for a SS HD model. If the DR model is about as good as an SS for a lesser cost (copy or not) I may end up buying it. I'm all for integrity and ingenuity, but I'm also grounded in the reality of my finances, or lack thereof. If I could find a SS style splitter, built to the same standards/material quality, with the changes that MN and I have referenced for $1800-2500 max, with a sufficient powerplant and slightly heavier flywheels, (mid-western knotty hardwood), I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I do apologize for the run-on sentence.


 The Super Split J model was right around $2800 to my door. Paul said I didn't need the HD model and he was right. 4.5hp is more than enough for this splitter. The J is $2330, plus $274 for the table. Shipping was right around $200.


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## KiwiBro

Let's talk differences. Some say there aren't many, but let's at least try to discuss a few of 'em.


*Those guides on the table.*
I gotta ask why. If a piece needs to be resplit it has to be LIFTED or ROLLED over them to re-position, rather than just slide back. The difference may not sound like much but it's generally the heavier pieces that need re-splitting so that extra fluffing around is going to add up by the end of the day/week (if commercial operators). What do DR users gain? Stopping a round from rolling off the table before it's split? How hard is it to just rest a hand on the top until the wedge bites?

*the flywheels*
what's the weight difference between these and SS? Are DR ones heavier (and is that at similar diameters b/c I guess it's weight at the outside diameter that counts the most), providing more momentum? If there is more momentum, does that mean the DR ram is going to take more shock loading and if so, is it able to handle that?

One SS owner in here and on youtube has added a third flywheel down low and many have said the SS is too top heavy when moving/towing. What has DR done to address that?

*the rack head*
the SS has two bearings each side that runs under the I (or H) beam top flange. The DR looks to have just one each side. If this is the case, why? the Same guy that did the flywheel mod to his SS also did a mod to the rack head, although i never found out why. 

*the hands-on right of return*
In the DR vid it says 6 months hands on, but in this thread we are told 1 year. Which is it and does SS offer this?

---------------------------------------------
Also, a few guys were going nto get a SS to a get together to get some feedback on it. Would DR be willing to attend or lend out a demo model to the GTG for a side by side comparison by AS members? Yes, if that sounds like a direct challenge, you can bet your ass it is. Let's see if the slick marketing is backed up by enough faith in their machine that DR are willing to let a GTG put it through it's paces.


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## RAMROD48

We just got the $1200 self propelled walk behind DR trimmer and i must say that the $1200 tag was what made us resist for as long as we did...

now that we have it I must say, i know why they cast what they do...

they are heavy duty, and it has made me look at the rest of their products in a new light...

If this splitter is built to the same quality that the trimmer is, it will be a great machine!

I am in the market for an overhaul of my current splitter or to purchace new and this addition to the DR line has me looking at it a whole new light...


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## KiwiBro

*A few more questions, if I may.*

The rack engagement:

The DR method is slightly different from the SS, why? I noticed in the DR vids the operators are almost always holding onto the handle even when the rack is loaded either against the wood initially but also when the wood is loaded against the wedge also. Why? Does the rack tend to disengage unless the operator keeps some pressure on the handle? Why tie up a hand like that?

Assuming the operators are the twitchy type to want to keep a hand on the handle just in case, will the rack ever disengage by itself for any reason other than at the end of it's travel? Will it disengage when there's too much load on the rack when, for example, it hits a really serious knot and loads up too much, or is that the only reason the operators in the vids keep a hand on the handle.

Clutch:

I can't be sure b/c I am on a slow connection today and can't bring up the DR vids but I don't recall ever seeing a shot of the clutch side of the motor. Is there a clutch? Was it a deliberate act to exclude shots of that side? There were some "patent pending" aspects to the DR so maybe that area is one of them and is a key difference between the DR and SS?


Towing:

Will it be highway towable: suspension and a coupling attachment at axle/flywheel end of the splitter. There's a reasonable amount of weight quite high up so I wonder if the centre of gravity is just too high to risk saying it's towable.


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## mooseracing

Locust Cutter said:


> "Highway capable" shouldn't mean 30mph,... If I'm not splitting at my house, my closest "Large scale cutting area" is about 47 miles away. I shouldn't have to (VERY) carefully load a splitter on a trailer, to transport it out there to the wood. I also don't think I should have to pay TW/Built-rite/Split-right/etc prices, just to get that convenience.



The problem is the proper highway models I have dealt with are at least twice as heavy as the common splitters sold at box stores. So you have to factor in the cost of materials.

We have an older commercial splitter that sits on 15" tires. Two people can barely roll it around, and it doesn't feel like it is going to fall apart like all the ones sold in box stores now. Mainly the H/V feel like they are twisting apart when you split hardwoods. They flex all over compared to our commercial one.




KiwiBro said:


> The rack engagement:
> 
> The DR method is slightly different from the SS, why? I noticed in the DR vids the operators are almost always holding onto the handle even when the rack is loaded either against the wood initially but also when the wood is loaded against the wedge also. Why? Does the rack tend to disengage unless the operator keeps some pressure on the handle? Why tie up a hand like that?


 
Just a theory but in this day and age I would almost bet it is to CYA type of thing. Help keep idiots from smashing their hand then suing DR ?


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## KiwiBro

mooseracing said:


> Just a theory but in this day and age I would almost bet it is to CYA type of thing. Help keep idiots from smashing their hand then suing DR ?


 Quite understandable given that the so called human 'race' is a competition between producers trying to come up with more idiot/litigiously inclined -proof designs and Mother Nature creating better and bigger idjits. If one hand has to stay on the ejector button like that, it turns me off the product straight away b/c the hands are better employed getting another round than keeping the operator at the handle. I can understand the times when one is splitting a knarly piece that may choke the splitter and the operator may have to disengage the rack to release some pressure, but other than that it's a potential waste of time, and as the guy (who must have only ever used slow hydraulic rams in the past) said in the DR video, time is money and everyone wants more of it these days. 

Has anyone ever rigged then up to completely auto-cycle? and the operator only has to hit the handle to release the rack from a potentially stalling/overloaded situation? That could be a pretty cool warranty-voiding after market mod.


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## sunfish

Don't know about the DR, but the SS is completely auto cycle.

Unless it stalls in a bad piece, then just bump the handle down to disengage.

I haven't seen any reason yet to get the DR over the SS.


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## KiwiBro

Sorry, I should have been clearer. By "completely auto cycle" I mean it automatically cycles again once it has automatically retracted. A perpetual engage/disengage cycling unless the user breaks that by manually disengaging. By the time the rack has withdrawn, the user better have some wood there ready for it b/c it's gonna engage and try ramming something all by itself. This frees up both hands (and the eyes) of the user to focus on the wood and ram/rack, not the handle.

I doubt it's as dangerous as it sounds. I'd be a crash test dummy for something like that if anyone wants me to. The freight to out here could scupper that though. Be cheaper for me to get on a plane and put faces to names at a GTG.


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## sunfish

No, the SS has auto retract. Pull up on handle, remove hand, the ram will split the wood and retract. I would not want it to cycle again by it self, it's much too fast (2 seconds) to get anther piece in there. :msp_w00t:


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## KiwiBro

That's a good point. A couple of thoughts in that regard:
1. The ram travels how far? 24"? Our rounds here are generally about 10-12", so there would be quite a bit of spare room and this might create enough time (especially with both hands available) to get the wood back into position for the next auto split.
2. About getting 'the wood back into position', why is the user having to move wood back and forward like that anyway? Would it not be easier and faster for the user to have the rack vertical, so they weren't tugging wood back and forth, just turning it while the bench supports it's weight? Does it take so much more force to split on a vertical table with the wedge itself driving through the wood rather than the wood driving passed the wedge, that a flywheel splitter would keep stalling?

I'm thinking a completely auto cycling/perpetually cycling vertical rack and pinion splitter might just be the cat's meow. you could have the dis/engage mechanism as a foot or knee/hip lever.


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## Cmccul8146

KiwiBro said:


> 1
> 
> completely auto cycling/perpetually cycling rack and pinion splitter .


 
Why would anyone want a continuous cycling flywheel splitter. I'd sure hate to see the Product Liability insurance cost per machine for something like that. One SS can keep 3 people as busy as they want to be as it is. People who have never seen one of these splitters in action , just seen the videos, have NO idea what a 2 second cycle time is. Continuous cycle & somebody is going to lose some fingers or a hand in a fast hurry. 

And what's wrong with keeping a hand on the handle ,anyway. Not necessary, but it does keep THAT hand out of any danger.


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## KiwiBro

Cmccul8146 said:


> Why would anyone want a continuous cycling flywheel splitter.


 To keep both hands working the wood, was the thought I raised that seemed to escape your attention.


Cmccul8146 said:


> I'd sure hate to see the Product Liability insurance cost per machine for something like that.


 I'll take it the warranty voiding aftermarket mod musing above also escaped your attention, not to mention, by your own reasoning (which I'll address separately below) later on in your post, - if you haven't seen [sic] it then you might just have "NO idea what a [perpetual cycling option]" is let alone really be sure just how dangerous it is, as if the myriad tools and machinery used to get the wood in a state it can be split are in themselves perfectly safe in the hands of imbeciles.


Cmccul8146 said:


> One SS can keep 3 people as busy as they want to be as it is.


 Unless you are saying it takes three people to make a SS or DR really hum, I don't see the point of that comment b/c unless the labour is dirt cheap or the output per labour unit is better when there are three manic workers keeping the SS or DR going, or the target market is domestic users only who either don't give a rat's about production or have many willing volunteers to help them, then throwing more people at a splitter begs the question of whether that's ultimately worth it. I thought the point of this splitter was the amount of wood one user could hum through, given the splitters claim to fame as the fastest of it's kind?


Cmccul8146 said:


> People who have never seen one of these splitters in action , just seen the videos, have NO idea what a 2 second cycle time is.


 With respect, bollix. If by "never seen" you mean never been around one or worked with one, then I agree there is nothing like using a machine and getting to know how to use it well to get the most from it, but it's abject lunacy to suggest one cannot get an appreciation for the cycle times by watching the videos which are themselves real people using a real machine on real wood, after all. I know you've built one and have accumulated plenty of knowledge about them and will know far more about them than I, but to suggest not using one disqualifies others from appreciating their speed is just ridiculous, frankly.


Cmccul8146 said:


> Continuous cycle & somebody is going to lose some fingers or a hand in a fast hurry.


 You know something - it just occurred to me that is probably a similar argument hydraulic splitter salespeople use to scare people off those evil, finger-eating, viciously fast 2-second rack and pinion splitters the competition sell.



Cmccul8146 said:


> And what's wrong with keeping a hand on the handle ,anyway.


 Nothing, nothing at all. But I'd rather, when the wood isn't knotty, have both hands being productive, which, forgive me if I'm wrong, is the point of the auto cycle in the first place, isn't it?

As someone who has built his own, why do you think the DR has the supports and lower table and do you consider that better than the flush table with no supports?

Did you build yours to be tow-able?


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## Cmccul8146

Del_Corbin said:


> Here's a video of a continuous cycling flywheel splitter.
> 
> <iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2bVAAx3mMKY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


 
Maybe I should have said rack & pinion splitter. I saw that video almost 5 years ago when I was looking for SS videos. I wouldn't put my hands anywhere near that thing. I didn't get to be 63 yrs. old ,with all my appendages by being an IDIOT. And that still isn't much faster than a rack & pinion splitter, but 100 times more dangerous. Thanks, but I'll keep & use the one I built.


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## mooseracing

Del_Corbin said:


> Here's a video of a continuous cycling flywheel splitter.


 
I couldn't find that thread that all the videos were posted in of log splitters, but there is one that is an old square baler converted to splitter under the same principle. The ram was moving way too fast for me to have it on full auto, seems how when I set the log down it is never where I want it on the first try.


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## DR POWER

*Innovation contest*



dancan said:


> MNGuns , I see your point and agree , it just wasn't as clear in your earlier posts (could have been just me ) .
> I think you're ideas on making the machine better are spot on , may be SS or DR are paying attention because innovation is important .


 
Let me jump in again...We are absolutely paying attention here at DR. We have always been driven by innovation, with a passion for high-quality design. And like many of you, we have no use for ordinary products...so we're listening and willing to do what it takes to absolutely be the best. 

The insight offered here by Dancan, MMGUNS, sunfish and others is greatly appreciated -- even if not entirely flattering:smile2: We've introduced a rack & pinion splitter that we're damn proud of but we won't rest there. To prove it, I want to further encourage you to give us your insight on how to make this the BEST splitter on the market. So, here's what I'm proposing:

For the next 7 days I will follow this thread and every person that suggests a sincere idea for improving our design I'll put their name into a hat and send the winner these chaps chainsaw chaps -- a $75 value!

Please send us your design ideas -- we really appreciate the passion and knowledge of splitters that can only be found is this community.


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## DR POWER

There have been a lot of good questions about the DR Rapid Fire. Let me answer some of them directly:

*Why the log stabilizers?* Two reasons: #1 it’s a voluntary industry standard that all logs must be “self stabilizing” on the splitting beam. #2 In a head-to-head comparison our testers preferred to use the machine with the stabilizing bars.

*Does the DR auto-cycle?* The cam assembly on the DR is spring loaded. Once your hand is removed from the lever it automatically retracts to the neutral position – about 1 second into the splitting cycle! This is also an industry standard that requires the activating lever travel in the same direction as the RAM.

*Is it a 1-Year or 6-Month Hands on Trial?* We’re so confident in the DR Rapid Fire that if your not 100% satisfied then we’ll take it back – no questions asked – anytime in the first full year that you own the machine (less return shipping).

*Does the DR have a clutch?* Yes, we use a Noram centrifugal clutch.

*Why does the DR only have bearings on 1 side when the Super Split has them on both sides?* The DR and Super Split have 2 bearings, 1 on each side of the beam.

More generally, I’d like to acknowledge that the Super Split is an exceptionally well-built machine and I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it to anyone. At the same time, we’re proud of the machine we’ve built here in Vermont. Enough so that we’re offering a free extended warranty – A FULL 3-YEARS – even in commercial use!


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## Pcoz88

It still a little pricey for shipping and the table but other then that it looks like a great machine.Got the dvd and catalog this week.


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## KiwiBro

Thanks for continuing to post in here, DR POWER.

These are, from what I can gather, supposed to be very fast production machines. That, as part of any system, influences other parts of the system. Given they are not hydraulic, it looks like a stand-alone conveyor would be very helpful in removing this fast production from the machine. Is there something like that in the Dr POWER line up? Alternatively, is there any belt system that could be rigged to run under the table to power a small conveyor?

Any chance of an optional extra log lift. Again, how to power it given there are no hydraulics is a ponderable.

A lower centre of gravity for better towing - how to get those flywheels down low and still efficiently engage the ram? Alternatively, could the vertical supports for the beam be extendable (using simple telescoping pipes with holes and pin) to get up to whatever height the operator needs for them, and then it can be lowered when it's going to be towed.

"In a head-to-head comparison our testers preferred to use the machine with the stabilizing bars." - did they advise why? Were the testers experienced and over what volumes were they comparing the two? There's a back and forth motion to the rounds, with the user having to pull the rounds back, the ram pushing them forward to split. Were your users having to apply any lift to the rounds (or more pull) back onto the stabilisers as they pulled them back? Do that a few hundred or more times a day and I am thinking that would add up to more user fatigue and slower production.

The flush table of the SS eliminates that. why not line the top of that table with UHMWPE or the like with very low friction coefficients but hard wearing characteristics to almost eliminate the effort of getting the wood the operator is working back into position for the next split?

A clip on or fold out extension to the splitting table so users could work big rounds easier without wood falling off the table. Or it could extend off the far end of the table and include a grated section where dross and general unwanteds could fall rather than end up onto a conveyor and into the firewood stack.


"Why does the DR only have bearings on 1 side when the Super Split has them on both sides? The DR and Super Split have 2 bearings, 1 on each side of the beam." That's not quite what I asked. Are you saying the DR has one bearing either side of the ram head running against the underside of the top beam flange? The SS has two either side, doesn't it?


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## MNGuns

DR POWER said:


> Let me jump in again...We are absolutely paying attention here at DR. We have always been driven by innovation, with a passion for high-quality design. And like many of you, we have no use for ordinary products...so we're listening and willing to do what it takes to absolutely be the best.
> 
> The insight offered here by Dancan, MMGUNS, sunfish and others is greatly appreciated -- even if not entirely flattering:smile2: We've introduced a rack & pinion splitter that we're damn proud of but we won't rest there. To prove it, I want to further encourage you to give us your insight on how to make this the BEST splitter on the market. So, here's what I'm proposing:
> 
> For the next 7 days I will follow this thread and every person that suggests a sincere idea for improving our design I'll put their name into a hat and send the winner these chaps chainsaw chaps -- a $75 value!
> 
> Please send us your design ideas -- we really appreciate the passion and knowledge of splitters that can only be found is this community.


 

Well I would have to say I am pleased to see you looking for true user input on how to make a better machine. As stated before, the biggest, and perhaps only complaint in regards to this splitter is mobility. While it make work well for Joe Home-owner to push, pull, or drag it out of the shed a couple of times of year, those that use it commercially are in need of something better. Mine gets used a few times a week minimum, and I would like nothing more than to be able to hook it to the back of the truck and tow it to the wood lot down the the road or across the state even.


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## KiwiBro

Take a look at people who work on production lines and you'll notice they seem to move with relative ease doing their particular operation at speeds the inexperienced might consider unsafe or unbelievable. The fact is, doing a repetitive operation builds muscle memory and eye-hand coordination to the point the operator can work safely at high speed. That's why I haven't written off the 'complete auto cycle' idea as easily as others, although I do understand it not only sounds unsafe but could expose producers to some liability issues.

Along similar but probably mechanically contrary lines, for those users splitting, say, 12" long rounds, why not eliminate the wasted travel of the ram by having those rubber (?) stops moveable to further along the beam? Or does that extra travel also act as a buffer to allow the flywheels to get back up to speed?

What about a small bolt-on honeycomb wedge for kindling? It could have flat spots around the perimeter so users couldn't try to force bigger stuff through it, but it would only need to be about, say, 3-4" diameter to get some meaningful volumes of kindling really quick without putting too much load on the wedge/rack?


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## buildmyown

Nice looking splitter DR if I didnt already have use of an original SS from the early 80's id have to think about this. One thing i have noticed is a lot of people dont know about this type of splitter unless they are on a site like this or have seen or used one in person. I didnt even know what they were til a few years back when I friends father pulled it out of the barn. He is the original owner that used to own 3 SS for a firewood business. The other problem is people that have never used one and only seen videos online doubt how well they work work because every video shows nice straight grain wood in the ideal size less then 20 inches in dia. Maybe you should think of making a video that shows it splitting the big and knarly type of wood even if it takes more then one hit. 

Now to address a few things like the log guides I can see both sides where they would help and also become a pain. If your splitting the ideal wood for this machine then they would be fine but once you get into the big and ugly stuff I can see them getting in the way.

Over the road towing I have thought about this and a few ideas I have had are ATV/Snowmobile type tires a wider or adjustable wheel stance. This way if you want to take it in the woods you could narrow it if access is tight. For the high center of gravity again make it adjustable. The pole that supports the motor end could be a a pipe in a pipe deal pull a pin and drop the whole thing down pull the pin and raise the whole thing back up maybe have multiple holes so you can have different heights for different operators. Now for the other end that could be like a trailer jack swing it up for towing and back down and crank for splitting. Also the tow bar would have to be removable for one I can see it it being a shin and knee basher and two theft prevention. 

The wedge a little taller and a little wider the wedge on the one I use I find it to short sometimes and a little wider would really help to seperate the logs. I think the wedge on mine is about 6 inches tall and 3/4 of an inch wide. Again if your splitting pretty wood its not a problem.

A log lift would be great but one of the nice things about this style splitter is it can be run from both sides without haveing to reach. I have also thought about this and the only idea I came up with would be to use a battery and an electric ram. Then you would also need sometype of charging system. The other problem I see with this would be tipping do to the high center of gravity and narrow wheel stance maybe some type of out riggers.


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## dancan

Since I have no experience with a rack & pinion splitter I won't tell you how to build it but if I look at it from a commercial production point of view , MNGuns view an a proper tailor setup as an option may generate some sales and help differentiate your product from others . Log lifts and conveyors might be nice options to buy if available .
It looks to me that you could configure the mechanical parts of your splitter into a few different splitters models to cover a broader field of users .
If any of these ideas were mentioned before I got to post them I just want to go on record that I thought of them first  .
If you need a tester to see how they'll last in our harsh Canadian Atlantic Eastern seaboard climate , I'm your guy LOL !


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## wampum

I have a limited amount of time with this type of splitter,but I have used one.My biggest complaint with it is its balance when trying to move it. I suggest a solid beam under the
splitter that the support legs would stand on. These legs would have a solid bolt or pin at the bottom and about 6 inches up another hole and pin that can be removed. When you are
done splitting and ready to tow the top pins would be removed and the splitter would simply fold down for transport. This splitter is fairly top heavy,so a spring or jack would have to be
installed to help raise or lower the splitter as it folds forward. This jack could be hydraulic,or screw powered. Once the splitter folded forward in the down position it would be pinned in 
place while traveling. The beam would go from the axel to the tongue and be easy to hook up to your quad,tractor or truck.This would give you the best of both worlds a good towing
splitter and a good height to split with.


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## KiwiBro

This is why I like this forum so much. Constructive people offering ideas and kicking about options. Long may it continue.


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## Pcoz88

The rack and pinion splitter made here in Ohio ,the two fly wheels have a key way. .Does the DR machine???How are the fly wheels held on???



Pete


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## Cmccul8146

KiwiBro said:


> To keep both hands working the wood, was the thought I raised that seemed to escape your attention.
> I'll take it the warranty voiding aftermarket mod musing above also escaped your attention, not to mention, by your own reasoning (which I'll address separately below) later on in your post, - if you haven't seen [sic] it then you might just have "NO idea what a [perpetual cycling option]" is let alone really be sure just how dangerous it is, as if the myriad tools and machinery used to get the wood in a state it can be split are in themselves perfectly safe in the hands of imbeciles.
> Unless you are saying it takes three people to make a SS or DR really hum, I don't see the point of that comment b/c unless the labour is dirt cheap or the output per labour unit is better when there are three manic workers keeping the SS or DR going, or the target market is domestic users only who either don't give a rat's about production or have many willing volunteers to help them, then throwing more people at a splitter begs the question of whether that's ultimately worth it. I thought the point of this splitter was the amount of wood one user could hum through, given the splitters claim to fame as the fastest of it's kind?
> With respect, bollix. If by "never seen" you mean never been around one or worked with one, then I agree there is nothing like using a machine and getting to know how to use it well to get the most from it, but it's abject lunacy to suggest one cannot get an appreciation for the cycle times by watching the videos which are themselves real people using a real machine on real wood, after all. I know you've built one and have accumulated plenty of knowledge about them and will know far more about them than I, but to suggest not using one disqualifies others from appreciating their speed is just ridiculous, frankly.
> You know something - it just occurred to me that is probably a similar argument hydraulic splitter salespeople use to scare people off those evil, finger-eating, viciously fast 2-second rack and pinion splitters the competition sell.
> 
> Nothing, nothing at all. But I'd rather, when the wood isn't knotty, have both hands being productive, which, forgive me if I'm wrong, is the point of the auto cycle in the first place, isn't it?
> 
> As someone who has built his own, why do you think the DR has the supports and lower table and do you consider that better than the flush table with no supports?
> 
> Did you build yours to be tow-able?




KiwiBro, Product Liability insurance does not have to cover any user mods, only what the manufacturer produces. You must not live in the USA or you would know how lawsuit crazy people are here, & the Judges & Juries are even crazier with some of their "awards" One lawsuit could easily put a company out of business. I do have mine made so that the ram stops about 2 inches short of the wedge for added safety, but I don't build them commercially, and no one else runs mine. 

As far as knowing what a perpetual cycling machine is, yes I do. I own & operate a machine shop & build all sorts of specialty machines , some continuous cycling, some operator activated. And I don't think you or anyone else can move fast enough to split a round, reposition it for the next split which would be in about 1 second,and not get seriously hurt.

No ,I am not saying that it takes 3 people to run one of these splitters efficently. What I said was one Flywheel splitter can keep 3 people busy. That would be 1 guy splitting & 2 guys stacking or loading. You did mention the best method of moving the wood by using a conveyor, though.

You can get an idea how fast these splitters are by watching videos, but when you actually run one or see one run, then you'll appreciate how fast 2 seconds goes by. So I still stand by my conviction that a coutinuous cycle would be far too dangerous on these machines.

Personally I don't like the log supports on the DR table. Without them, I just slide my wood back onto the beam & make another split. With heavier pieces it would be more trouble lifting it back onto the beam. Another thing is that I don't always split right down the middle, but start on edges on hickory, elm, sweetgum, etc. But that's just my opinion, since I haven't ever used any supports. 

I bolted a piece of steel flatbar onto the very bottom of the leg on wedge end using U bolts. Just have a hole in the end to drop a pin thru to tow behind my garden tractor. I have towed it on the highway ,a couple of miles each way, behind my MF 135 tractor to split a few cords for my cousin. I mostly just tow it around my yard though. 

One other thing you mentioned in another post is positioning the round away from the wedge & ramming the wood at it to split. I always position my wood against the wedge & it splits just fine.


----------



## Cmccul8146

*Towable Splitter*

4 or 5 years ago, Paul at SS was building a towable splitter, but I think he discontinued them for some reason. The whole machine was lowered for towing, & raised back up for splitting. I think the axle length was the same on all models, but the towable version had highway rated tires, similar to pontoon boat trailer tires. I didn't actually see him raising & lowering it ,but did see it in both positions & hitched up to his truck after the demo in 2007.Towable model was a few hundred more. Was a very nice machine.


----------



## William Balaska

My suggestion is to get it to your consumers for $2000 out the door. I have been using a 22 ton MTD for the last 16 years which I bought new. I am ready to upgrade and have looked at these and other splitters like them but I feel manufacturers have developed greed to some sense. If a guy with fabrication ability can build one for $500 the manufactuter can to and is getting a fair profit selling one for $2000. I owned a DR string trimmer for some time it was great by all means I'm not nocking the company because I feel they honor what they build but I'm tired of being squeezed to death so a company can show huge quarterly profits. Start thinking about us peons please. I am considering a wood wolf right now but I am still going to negotiate even at their price before I buy.


----------



## Locust Cutter

DR POWER said:


> Let me jump in again...We are absolutely paying attention here at DR. We have always been driven by innovation, with a passion for high-quality design. And like many of you, we have no use for ordinary products...so we're listening and willing to do what it takes to absolutely be the best.
> 
> The insight offered here by Dancan, MMGUNS, sunfish and others is greatly appreciated -- even if not entirely flattering:smile2: We've introduced a rack & pinion splitter that we're damn proud of but we won't rest there. To prove it, I want to further encourage you to give us your insight on how to make this the BEST splitter on the market. So, here's what I'm proposing:
> 
> For the next 7 days I will follow this thread and every person that suggests a sincere idea for improving our design I'll put their name into a hat and send the winner these chaps chainsaw chaps -- a $75 value!
> 
> Please send us your design ideas -- we really appreciate the passion and knowledge of splitters that can only be found is this community.


 
Let me preface this by stating that I have NO experience with flywheel splitters, but have been using various hyd designs (and mauls, wedges and axes since about 6) for about 24 years. I DO however have a B.S. in Farmer/Rancher Ad Hoc engineering,...

1. The telescopic idea for the power plant could be a real winner. Alternatively, how hard would it be to have 3 flywheels; 2 Small ones (roughly 1/2-1/3 of the total weight needed for reliable operation) up high, where the current ones are mounted and the 3rd larger one (1/2-2/3 total weight) mounted beneath the machine to lower the center of gravity and balance the machine for manual handling?

2. Log Loading: Seeing as there is no HYD service on a machine like this, how about an add-on (removable) manually operated (muscle powered) side table with a removable pole handle for the lifting leverage (or a small manual jack somewhat akin to a trailer tongue jack for liability purposes)? I could draw and email a picture if necessary, but what I'm envisioning here is a pin-on table with eyelet receptacles welded on both sides of the machine for convenient bi-directional mounting, which would accept a standard symmetrically designed log cradle. If done right, it should be able to pivot over the unit and be stowed in that position for towing/handling and would provide an added benefit of cover/protection of the rack from inclement weather. The lifting mechanism could be as simple as a removable, contoured, shovel-style handle (3-5' tall) similar to the entry assist handle on newer Ford Super Duties, (NOT a FORD fan, but I DO love my Super Duty). Otherwise either a trailer tongue jack could be used, OR, a come-along mounted to the bottom (ground end) of the cradle, with either a central attachment point, or 2 if necessary (1 for each side, based of of possible rack clearance/interference issues). The Log Lift, like the work table, could be removed for more compact storage should the owner desire/need such, and be marketed as such. 

3. Wedge: Your wedge may be wonderfully efficient. BUT, based off of conversations w/S.S. owners (and hopefully soon to be supported by hands-on experience w/a friends S.S @ a coming GTG) Their wedge seems to be about an inch too' short and about 0.25-0.5" too' narrow. It would be nice to see a removable wedge feature/option (slip-on design) for a variety of options, based of the consumer's needs/desires/constraints (Production time/Efficiency/Wood Type). Ideally I'd think a Short 2-way for kindling, a Tall 2-way for normal use and and optional 4-way for those splitting 15" thick (Wide) and narrower wood, that could be quickly and more efficiently be split w/one pass instead of 2 or more, thus reducing handling time. 

I have NO doubts that Your unit, The S.S., or the Wood Wolf would be immensely faster in most wood than my 35 ton Speeco. It has been a great unit so far and I do not regret purchasing it. However, I will be buying a flywheel unit in the next 6-18 months to maximize my productivity and grant me more time with my babies while they're still young. I won't mind splitting all-day when I'm older and they're out of the house, but for now, the Air Force dominates enough of my time and while I dearly enjoy the entire firewood process, I won't regret not spending more time working up wood when I'm dying. Spending time with my children however,... 

I apologize for the run-on sentences and the soapbox ending (worked all-night and am getting ready for bed), but if this helps make the product any better than it already is, then it will be worth it. I would like to see that if ANYONE's design ideas get incorporated into a new model, they be allowed a trial run at the "beta-copy" test-mule, even if liability/indemnity waivers have to be signed.

My $0.02
-Bryan


----------



## pdhowell

*Idea on splitter safety improvement*



DR POWER said:


> Let me jump in again...We are absolutely paying attention here at DR. We have always been driven by innovation, with a passion for high-quality design. And like many of you, we have no use for ordinary products...so we're listening and willing to do what it takes to absolutely be the best.
> 
> The insight offered here by Dancan, MMGUNS, sunfish and others is greatly appreciated -- even if not entirely flattering:smile2: We've introduced a rack & pinion splitter that we're damn proud of but we won't rest there. To prove it, I want to further encourage you to give us your insight on how to make this the BEST splitter on the market. So, here's what I'm proposing:
> 
> For the next 7 days I will follow this thread and every person that suggests a sincere idea for improving our design I'll put their name into a hat and send the winner these chaps chainsaw chaps -- a $75 value!
> 
> Please send us your design ideas -- we really appreciate the passion and knowledge of splitters that can only be found is this community.




Thanks for asking about possible improvements to your splitter. Forums like this work because you get so many good inputs.

As one who has a hydraulic splitter, the one time I got in trouble is when I caught my sleeve on a sharp corner of the moving wedge that was auto retracting. Since that sleeve was on the same hand that was controlling the valve, I had to reach across my body and the splitter with my free hand to prevent a real problem. 

I would propose that you round the edges of your impact head, or perhaps covering the non wood contact parts with a plastic shroud to reduce the likelihood of catching gloves or sleeves.


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## Hddnis

Couple of things:

I'll add another vote to the real usable trailer option, good for highway speeds.

Could it be made to just mount in a reciever hitch?



Mr. HE


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## KiwiBro

I don't see where my beer goes on these machines. Is there a can holder like on my lawn tractor? :hmm3grin2orange:hic.


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## MNGuns

KiwiBro said:


> I don't see where my beer goes on these machines. Is there a can holder like on my lawn tractor? :hmm3grin2orange:hic.



As a big fan of beer and booze, I will say this one machine that can do without a cupholder..:msp_thumbup:


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## KiwiBro

MNGuns said:


> As a big fan of beer and booze, I will say this one machine that can do without a cupholder..:msp_thumbup:


 Yeah, although just think what a great cooler a few panes on those flywheels could be.

Regarding the telescoping vert' supports for lowering/raising the motor/flywheels for towing and different operator heights, why not just throw a heavy duty spring down the pipe so it supports the weight to the point it takes naff all force to lower or raise the unit as need be. It could double as suspension for towing (not independent, but some suspension none the less).


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## Pcoz88

Speedco has come out with there own rack and pinion splitter.There on TSC web page.!!!WHOA!$ and its towable!!!!!$1699.


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## MNGuns

While the SpeedPro's design is a bit more unique, I think it has a long ways to go to compare to the SS or even the DR.

For one the thing looks thin, real thin, like fold in half kind of thin. It appears as if the table height is right about level with my knees. I don't care to spend the day working on a machine bent over. I see others where the beam is nearly on the ground, what is the concept..? 

The work table is boxed in so your finished pieces don't flow off the end. It has those darn guides on the beam so you have to lift ever piece repeatedly rather than slide, and the table does not come down each side of the beam. 

The tongue is still on the output end of the machine, so even if you could slide product right off the table, you still have to unhook the tongue by some means to be able to back up to a conveyor. By putting the tongue on the opposite end of the table, you can windrow your piles as far as your heart desires by just moving the tow vehicle ahead a bit. 

While it does appear towable, it's really not what I had in mind for highway travel. I would not be comfortable dragging that down I-94. 

While it is could certainly be a great splitter for the homeowner, It does not appear to me to be the commercial type machine that the SS, or even the DR are. It is priced accordingly. You get what you pay for.

The more this thread goes on, the more I am inclined to head out to the shop and fix this thing myself. While I don't care to be in the manufacturing business, I am confident that whom ever gets this thing right is going to do well with it in the commercial market.


----------



## sunfish

Pcoz88 said:


> Speedco has come out with there own rack and pinion splitter.There on TSC web page.!!!WHOA!$ and its towable!!!!!$1699.


 
Speedco :msp_rolleyes: I'd rather have the DR, if I could modify the auto cycle. DR has 
basically copied the best and stayed fairly true to the original design.

But I already have the better splitter!

Like said in the other thread, the exposure to these flywheel splitters is goin to take off. 

People will soon learn which one is best...


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## mooseracing

sunfish said:


> People will soon learn which one is best...


 
None yet.

Someone needs to make one that is actually movable with large tires. Same goes for hydraulic splitters, none except commercial ones come with a 14" or 15" tire.


----------



## sunfish

mooseracing said:


> None yet.
> 
> Someone needs to make one that is actually movable with large tires. Same goes for hydraulic splitters, none except commercial ones come with a 14" or 15" tire.


 
I don't need to tow my SS on the road, but it would be a nice 'add on option' for those that need it.

I will fix up a way to hook mine to the tractor or 4 wheeler soon though.


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## MNGuns

A towable model should wear 205/75R15 tires to allow good clearance. It is a commonly avaliable trailer tire size. The smaller snowmbile and utility trailer sized tires just don't cut it for a commercial machine. I think also that it should have a 3500 lb axle, not that it weighs anything near that, but it is the smallest axle IMO that has a bearing large enough for highway use.

I'm going to have to take the time to sketch this thing out for you guys. I believe that amongst us commercial users / owners, we could designa darn good machine. We're somebody to want to manufacture it, we would perhaps be interested in exchanging our interest in the machine, for a couple few finished products...


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## mooseracing

sunfish said:


> I don't need to tow my SS on the road,


 
I'm mainly looking at less handling to where I stack the wood.

So IF I could drag that splitter to where I cut the wood that would be at least 1 times less I have to handle it. I couldn't drag any incarnation of the flywheel splitters, there is almost 0 of my land that is flat besides part of the driveway.

Hopefully this competition brings more innovation and features for the end user.


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## Pcoz88

What mooseracing said"Hopefully this competition brings more innovation and features for the end user."!!!!!


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## logbutcher

For those not familiar with DR, the company backs their products unlike any other ( maybe LL Bean and TSC).
Most of their machines have a 6 month or 1 year TRIAL use. Think: use/abuse their tool for a year, then return it! Where can you get that kind of marketing ? Cost is always a factor, but: tech support, parts for years, and a no nonsense approach to customers solving ANY problems with products over ANY time.

If I was ready to buy, I'd go with DR if only for the quality of their customer support. ( True disclosure: I have no $$$ in Country Home Products/DR, or need anything now. ). 

Think of buying Glock or Sig compared with S&W or offshore sidearms.

JMNSHO


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## morewood

I just looked at the DR flyer yesterday evening and saw this thing. I must say I have never used or seen this type of splitter. After 15-20 years of a MTD 22-ton splitter (have replaced the engine, but it has worked admirably) I have to split for more than just my father. I split for 4-5 households and a faster cycle time can do nothing but help. I have never used a horizontal splitter and would hesitate having to pick up some of the rounds that I have when I can simply stand them on end under the splitter head. If I had more help maybe it wouldn't matter. The best idea I see is the road/off-road towable model. I would love to be able to split where I cut and then move to household. It may be time to do more research on my part. Nice to see this was already being discussed when i got here.

Shea

PS. Anyone near WNC have one to look at, touch, etc?


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## MNGuns

morewood said:


> I just looked at the DR flyer yesterday evening and saw this thing. I must say I have never used or seen this type of splitter. After 15-20 years of a MTD 22-ton splitter (have replaced the engine, but it has worked admirably) I have to split for more than just my father. I split for 4-5 households and a faster cycle time can do nothing but help. I have never used a horizontal splitter and would hesitate having to pick up some of the rounds that I have when I can simply stand them on end under the splitter head. If I had more help maybe it wouldn't matter. The best idea I see is the road/off-road towable model. I would love to be able to split where I cut and then move to household. It may be time to do more research on my part. Nice to see this was already being discussed when i got here.
> 
> Shea
> 
> PS. Anyone near WNC have one to look at, touch, etc?



Regardless ofthe type of splitter you use, IMO you should never have to lift a round bigger than you are comfortable lifting. Noodle it. Faster than you can set a hoist, lift, chain, etc. you can noodle a round and have it be a manageable size.


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## rwbinbc

*Another Clone*

We went to tsc to pick up some bar oil and there set a up to 28 ton flywheel splitter looks like the dr and the super split just alot cheaper. It came in at $1699 with the work table. Alot cheaper just wondering if the parts are built as strong, If they will handle the wear and tear. I snapped a pic will try to add.........View attachment 198901


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## 046

looks like Speeco is in the fast game too... patents must have expired


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## rwbinbc

I didn't see the other thread about these till now. I though I was breaking News.........


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## mesupra

My thoughts/questions on the Speedco/pro,

The engagement handle looks like its backwards? Is this for safety purposes?

Is it powered by a Kohler? Doesn't Speedco produce its own Honda Knockoff?

Is the towing hitch capable of being folded away?

How high is the working table?


The price point seems to be good enough to be able to make some major improvements without reaching the cost of a DR or SS.


----------



## Hddnis

rwbinbc said:


> We went to tsc to pick up some bar oil and there set a up to 28 ton flywheel splitter looks like the dr and the super split just alot cheaper. It came in at $1699 with the work table. Alot cheaper just wondering if the parts are built as strong, If they will handle the wear and tear. I snapped a pic will try to add.........View attachment 198901





That looks like it is getting really close to what some of the guys are saying they want in such a splitter.




Mr. HE


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## mooseracing

mesupra said:


> The price point seems to be good enough to be able to make some major improvements without reaching the cost of a DR or SS.


 
Same thing I am thinking, maybe I will finally get out of borrowing one.


First 2 things I would do is move the tongue to the other side of the beam and put real tires under it with a wider axle.


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## sunfish

Hddnis said:


> That looks like it is getting really close to what some of the guys are saying they want in such a splitter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


 
Except the table, log cradle *suck* and the engagement handle is backward. :msp_smile:


----------



## CWME

sunfish said:


> Except the table, log cradle *suck* and the engagement handle is backward. :msp_smile:


 
TSC sells sheet steel, make the table what you want it to be. Log cradle looks like it can be removed with taking out a few bolts. Another thought, Take existing log cradle and cut the top off even with the table. Apply previously mentioned sheet steel and you have a flat table. For me I would leave the off side cradle there to help rounds from rolling off the other side. You would still be able to work from the outside in as has been mentioned in the other thread.

Handle, Looks like a few minutes of modding in the shop and the handle could be flipped to pivot on the front bracket... 

While your cutting stuff up take the lip off the front of the table. 

Hitch is still in the way though... I could live with that for $900 savings over the DR + costs to ship the DR. Still don't know which one is best though. Thinking aloud.


----------



## sunfish

There is not a better way to do a table on these splitters. See photo below.

Easy to use and very efficient.

Edit to add; In the photo below, I had bolted the table on wrong where it's 3/4" below the beam. I now have it mounted flush. Need to take another shot.


----------



## CWME

sunfish said:


> There is not a better way to do a table on these splitters. See photo below.
> 
> Easy to use and very efficient.
> 
> Edit to add; In the photo below, I had bolted the table on wrong where it's 3/4" below the beam. I now have it mounted flush. Need to take another shot.


 
Nice looking machine and shop! 

The table looks like it could be a simple fix for both the speeco and DR. The DR would take a few minutes with a grinder to cut off the angle iron that makes up the "log cradle".


----------



## Cerran

I do like the wider stance of the Speeco but if I were to buy one I'd still go with the Super Split I think. Plenty happy with my x27 for now.


----------



## DR POWER

*Contest winner*



DR POWER said:


> Let me jump in again...We are absolutely paying attention here at DR. We have always been driven by innovation, with a passion for high-quality design. And like many of you, we have no use for ordinary products...so we're listening and willing to do what it takes to absolutely be the best.
> 
> The insight offered here by Dancan, MMGUNS, sunfish and others is greatly appreciated -- even if not entirely flattering:smile2: We've introduced a rack & pinion splitter that we're damn proud of but we won't rest there. To prove it, I want to further encourage you to give us your insight on how to make this the BEST splitter on the market. So, here's what I'm proposing:
> 
> For the next 7 days I will follow this thread and every person that suggests a sincere idea for improving our design I'll put their name into a hat and send the winner these chaps chainsaw chaps -- a $75 value!
> 
> Please send us your design ideas -- we really appreciate the passion and knowledge of splitters that can only be found is this community.


 
We've had 11 posts to our idea requests -- many of which have been forwarded to our engineers. As promised, I placed all 11 names into a hat and the winner of a brand new pair of chaps is Buildmyown.

Congratulations Buildmyown! Send me a message and I'll get them out to you ASAP.

More importantly, thanks to everyone for your continued feedback. We're listening....

View attachment 199188


----------



## KiwiBro

Cheers DR POWER.

How many years has SS had to engage the market like this and failed to do so. If the DR splitters are half as good as their willingness to listen and engage, they'll be darn fine investments.

Now, about that demo model to a GTG for a head to head comparison. I'd imagine if the DR can at least hold it's own in such an evaluation by AS members, it could be a powerful motivator for many to buy one.

Heck, if you want to send me one to put through it's paces, I won't object. I'll even pay all shipping costs ex: works. :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Dalmatian90

Just noticed looking at Sunfish's pic.

The Super Split & DR have tables designed to allow wood to flow off the end.

The Speeco has a lip there! Not sure if it's thinner metal needing more strength, cheaper to fabricate when they press it that way, or both...but that lip sure would be a pain and I can see it getting the bejesus beat out of it as splits on the table get rammed into the lip by the next split.


----------



## buildmyown

DR POWER said:


> We've had 11 posts to our idea requests -- many of which have been forwarded to our engineers. As promised, I placed all 11 names into a hat and the winner of a brand new pair of chaps is Buildmyown.
> 
> Congratulations Buildmyown! Send me a message and I'll get them out to you ASAP.
> 
> More importantly, thanks to everyone for your continued feedback. We're listening....
> 
> View attachment 199188


 
Nice!! to think I was just looking at chaps at the dealer yesterday. PM Sent


----------



## dancan

Congrats on the chaps !


----------



## dancan

KiwiBro said:


> Cheers DR POWER.
> 
> How many years has SS had to engage the market like this and failed to do so. If the DR splitters are half as good as their willingness to listen and engage, they'll be darn fine investments.
> 
> Now, about that demo model to a GTG for a head to head comparison. I'd imagine if the DR can at least hold it's own in such an evaluation by AS members, it could be a powerful motivator for many to buy one.
> 
> Heck, if you want to send me one to put through it's paces, I won't object. I'll even pay all shipping costs ex: works. :biggrinbounce2:


 
I thought I offered to test first so stand in line mister :msp_tongue: .


----------



## Locust Cutter

dancan said:


> I thought I offered to test first so stand in line mister :msp_tongue: .


 
Me too, ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Forky

I just have one question for DR Power; taking all of these suggestions for improvements into consideration, what would be a realistic date to expect a 2nd generation DR Kinetic splitter to hit the market. I am very intriqued by these splitters and am considering purchasing one, but after hearing all the proposed improvements in this thread, I am not sure now is a good time to purchase! :msp_confused:


----------



## MNGuns

KiwiBro said:


> Cheers DR POWER.
> 
> How many years has SS had to engage the market like this and failed to do so. If the DR splitters are half as good as their willingness to listen and engage, they'll be darn fine investments.
> 
> Now, about that demo model to a GTG for a head to head comparison. I'd imagine if the DR can at least hold it's own in such an evaluation by AS members, it could be a powerful motivator for many to buy one.
> 
> Heck, if you want to send me one to put through it's paces, I won't object. I'll even pay all shipping costs ex: works. :biggrinbounce2:


 
I really don't think that is a fair comparison. DR is a big business with a big budget, lots of man power, and a bank roll to match. When you call SS, Paul answers the phone. While I do applaud the efforts of DR to build a better SS, until I see something more, my loyalty, and purchases will continue to be with SS.


----------



## KiwiBro

MNGuns said:


> I really don't think that is a fair comparison. DR is a big business with a big budget, lots of man power, and a bank roll to match.


Sorry, you might be right. However, did DR/CHP start out with relatively small capital and grow their business through creating and seizing opportunities and if so, over what period? The patent protection that SS has enjoyed/paid for has run out. How long does that period last and after all that time others are now engaging the market in ways I don't see SS doing (DR) and/or pricing their products (although not quite apples for apples) significantly less than SS (TSC/Speeco/Blount). 

Perhaps SS can learn a thing or seven from these new entrants about how to market the product and grow it's business?

Someone has already opined the new entrants may actually grow the market b/c they will expose more people to the flywheel concept. I agree that will happen, however, it does beg the question whether after all those years of patent protection, why couldn't SS reach the same people the new entrants will and left sales on the table like that for new entrants? Sales that would have helped it grow to afford the initiatives some new entrants roll out.

Further, what is SS doing to respond to the competition that was surely going to happen once patent protection expired? Does it have any new patents on new splitter developments helping keep it ahead of it's competition, given the massive head start it's had (I note DR POWER seems to have some 'patent pending' aspects to their splitter)? Has it attempted to build it's brand as the market original to the point the others are seen as less authentic and/or less credible?

I'd be surprised if the big new entrants haven't made offers to SS to buy their business and if they did but couldn't reach any agreement, are now quite happy to play in the same space with their own offerings until such time as SS rise to the competition or succumb to it and sell out.

Interesting times ahead for sure and no-doubt a few more kinetic splitter brands will surface. The key thing is whether any of them will address any of the ideas/issues many have noted in this thread and as such, are able to differentiate themselves from the competition on quality/features, or whether the SS design (now open to anyone to copy) is so good it can't really be bettered, but can be equalled and it then comes down to build quality/service and/or the price drops significantly as some kamikaze player with comparable quality comes in an takes the price-point position.


----------



## KiwiBro

Is it possible to power an elevator/conveyor with an electric motor? What I'm wondering is if those flywheels and the momentum they create could generate a enough wattage to power an 'optional-extra' conveyor, which along with a few of the other suggestions herein, these fast production splitters could really benefit from.


----------



## KiwiBro

Locust Cutter said:


> Me too, ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!



There's only one thing for it then. Get that DR (and heck, let's go for broke and throw a TSC one in there too) to a GTG and await the evaluations from those lucky enough to try them head-to-head in the same woods. I note this is now the third time I've raised this suggestion. The ball is in your court, DR POWER. Get in before Blount do with their speeco/TSC offering.


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## Dalmatian90

> Perhaps SS can learn a thing or seven from these new entrants about how to market the product and grow it's business?



Perhaps the owners of SS understand it's not what you gross that matters but what you net?

I don't know his books, but I have a good educated guess and the owner should be enjoying a very comfortable income making and selling a low volume of high value, high quality units for a relatively niche market that's willing to pay a premium for premium equipment.

That's a perfectly valid and legitimate business model.

The patents expired in July. Of 1997. 

They've had small-shop competitors who've gone after them on price for a long time -- Wood Wolf, the Canadian copy cats, the Amish dude in Ohio.

Speeco doesn't appear to be a competitor to me. The quality just isn't there. Read the threads here -- they can be summed up as really great customer service and you're going to need it. You get what you pay for. 

You don't see Timberwolf, Splitright, or American building cheaper hydraulic splitters to be sold through mass market retailers because they see the path to profits being a bigger volume of cheaper machines then what they make today.

DR does look like a potential competitor to me. SS has two markets -- one is production commercial users, and the second is weekend warriors who like to own premium equipment. DR is really good at meeting that weekend warrior market. I'd still suspect DR's entry is more a rising tide lifts all boats situation more then an eating your lunch situation.


----------



## Cmccul8146

[ 


The patents expired in July. Of 1997. 

Thanks for that information Dalmation. I've been saying in these threads for quite some time that the patants expired years ago, but didn't know exactly when. I think the exposure SS has gotten here on AS & testimony of dedicated SS users is what is really getting other manufacturers starting to produce them. The DR does seem to be the best built copy I have seen, but Paul still builds the BEST one on the market. He's been building & selling them for years and takes pride in producing a quality machine.

I haven't seen the Speeco flywheel splitter that TSC sells yet ,but from the pictures I've seen it appears to have some MAJOR problems that they need to address. The 2 handed operation backward facing handle seems like a PITA to me, but that lip on the end of the table is definitely a NO-NO that will only slow down production. Who wants to have to pick up every split to get it out of the way? Also need to get rid of the log cradle & extend their table on back toward the flywheels ,and let the table serve as the cradle. Change isn't always for the better!!!!!!!!

When I built my homebuilt copy of the SS, I didn't build it with any intention of commercially producing log splitters, and still won't.Just had to see if I could build one. Until I saw Paul demonstrating the Super Splitters , both gas & electric, I or no one else in this area had ever seen anything like this. I looked them over closely & burned the images into my memory. Owning a machine shop, I just knew that some day I would have to try to build one. Finally after a little over 3 years, I started on it in my spare time. Working on it between jobs, & drawing up rough sketches to make sure everything fit like it should without a bunch of trial & error , I finished it after 5 months. Admittedly , mine is no SS, but it hasn't failed me yet, & most importantly, I'm pleased with it. May someday build another one with a few improvements such as highway rated tires & wheels , little wider stance ,& trailer hitch, but otherwise there is little improvement to be made on these machines.


----------



## MNGuns

Dalmatian90 said:


> Perhaps the owners of SS understand it's not what you gross that matters but what you net?
> 
> I don't know his books, but I have a good educated guess and the owner should be enjoying a very comfortable income making and selling a low volume of high value, high quality units for a relatively niche market that's willing to pay a premium for premium equipment.
> 
> That's a perfectly valid and legitimate business model.
> 
> The patents expired in July. Of 1997.
> 
> They've had small-shop competitors who've gone after them on price for a long time -- Wood Wolf, the Canadian copy cats, the Amish dude in Ohio.
> 
> Speeco doesn't appear to be a competitor to me. The quality just isn't there. Read the threads here -- they can be summed up as really great customer service and you're going to need it. You get what you pay for.
> 
> You don't see Timberwolf, Splitright, or American building cheaper hydraulic splitters to be sold through mass market retailers because they see the path to profits being a bigger volume of cheaper machines then what they make today.
> 
> DR does look like a potential competitor to me. SS has two markets -- one is production commercial users, and the second is weekend warriors who like to own premium equipment. DR is really good at meeting that weekend warrior market. I'd still suspect DR's entry is more a rising tide lifts all boats situation more then an eating your lunch situation.





Extremely well put.....:msp_thumbup:


----------



## Pcoz88

*The TSC one is made in CHINA*

Ugh!!!!!


----------



## MNGuns

Pcoz88 said:


> Ugh!!!!!


 
What isn't.....:bang:


----------



## Pcoz88

The super split and DR are NOT made in CHINA!!uttahere2:


----------



## yonny_eric

*great post*

Although not alone, I'm all for seeing more flywheel/inertia wood splitters. I'm a little confused why there is so much fuss over the "copying", doesn't this apply to nearly ALL hydraulic splitters? As for ideas, I will provide a few:

1. Put the sled rollers *below* the I-beam plate. On occasion, the SuperSplit HD we use gets wedges of wood get jammed under the sled (this is especially true when doing red oak). Usually we can free it by hitting the push-plate with a chunk of wood. However, numerous times we had to loosen up the bolts to get the wedge out.

2. Already stated, but it's horribly top-heavy: mount the darn engine/motor below the beam...

3. Set it up to be towable by putting side-riggers on it (like on DOT warning signs) to permit it to be jacked up. Use 2-1/2" 10/12 gauge galvanized perforated square tubing for the sleeves and 2-1/4", 3' sections for the jacks. These are readily available for sign posts.

Although it's probably foolish, there were some large bull dozer cogs (~135# each) at the transfer station. I grabbed them up and currently working with a steel fabricator friend of mine to make the "Dozer Splitter". Rough drawings attached (doesn't have the outrigger jacks).
View attachment 199537
View attachment 199538


----------



## MNGuns

yonny_eric said:


> Although not alone, I'm all for seeing more flywheel/inertia wood splitters. I'm a little confused why there is so much fuss over the "copying", doesn't this apply to nearly ALL hydraulic splitters? As for ideas, I will provide a few:
> 
> 1. Put the sled rollers *below* the I-beam plate. On occasion, the SuperSplit HD we use gets wedges of wood get jammed under the sled (this is especially true when doing red oak). Usually we can free it by hitting the push-plate with a chunk of wood. However, numerous times we had to loosen up the bolts to get the wedge out.
> 
> 2. Already stated, but it's horribly top-heavy: mount the darn engine/motor below the beam...
> 
> 3. Set it up to be towable by putting side-riggers on it (like on DOT warning signs) to permit it to be jacked up. Use 2-1/2" 10/12 gauge galvanized perforated square tubing for the sleeves and 2-1/4", 3' sections for the jacks. These are readily available for sign posts.
> 
> Although it's probably foolish, there were some large bull dozer cogs (~135# each) at the transfer station. I grabbed them up and currently working with a steel fabricator friend of mine to make the "Dozer Splitter". Rough drawings attached (doesn't have the outrigger jacks).
> View attachment 199537
> View attachment 199538


 
Welcome to the site...

Your drawings are very impressive. I wish I had the means to display my ideas like you have.

As for the fuss over copying....while it may be legal patent wise and such, the idea of one business reverse engineering another mans work and selling it as their own just does not set well. I do applaud the interest of other businesses to build a flywheel type machine, but as discussed there are many changes that could be made to the existing SS design to make a unique machine that performs better than the "original".


----------



## old cookie

The company i retired from used to make a steel worker. It cut flat bar,angleiron,notched and punched holes.It is a flywheel machine they made in the 40s and 50s. It workes verymuch like these spliters. Now are they a copyof that old ironworker. I dont think ss was the first to inventa flywheel machine.











i


----------



## Hddnis

old cookie said:


> The company i retired from used to make a steel worker. It cut flat bar,angleiron,notched and punched holes.It is a flywheel machine they made in the 40s and 50s. It workes verymuch like these spliters. Now are they a copyof that old ironworker. I dont think ss was the first to inventa flywheel machine.i





Exactly!


Copy shmopy.

This type of system was used on many machines before hydraulics took over.

I've got no problem with what DR and Speeco are doing. Patent protection gives an inventor a reasonable time frame to profit from his invention. After that he needs to innovate again. This keeps progress going.

The SS, while a great machine, is not the greatest adaptation of an inertia system, as evidenced by the many inprovements suggested. Time for them to put on their thinking caps and make it better and get some new patents if being the only game around matters so much.



Mr. HE


----------



## MNGuns

Hddnis said:


> Exactly!
> 
> 
> Copy shmopy.
> 
> This type of system was used on many machines before hydraulics took over.
> 
> I've got no problem with what DR and Speeco are doing. Patent protection gives an inventor a reasonable time frame to profit from his invention. After that he needs to innovate again. This keeps progress going.
> 
> The SS, while a great machine, is not the greatest adaptation of an inertia system, as evidenced by the many inprovements suggested. Time for them to put on their thinking caps and make it better and get some new patents if being the only game around matters so much.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE




Your post lacks logic, and I say that politely.....

I am all for improvement, adaption, and building a better machine. I could care less if you patent it. But.....there is a very thin difference between the current SS and the DR, and a lot of that has to do with paint. Take the concept of the machine, and all the input given here, perhaps even put it through the paces yourself, and then build your own machine. I would say if anything the Speedco machine at least attempted to apply a new design to the inertia concept.


----------



## Hddnis

MNGuns said:


> Your post lacks logic, and I say that politely.....
> 
> I am all for improvement, adaption, and building a better machine. I could care less if you patent it. But.....there is a very thin difference between the current SS and the DR, and a lot of that has to do with paint. Take the concept of the machine, and all the input given here, perhaps even put it through the paces yourself, and then build your own machine. I would say if anything the Speedco machine at least attempted to apply a new design to the inertia concept.






So you basically agree with me? Based on what you just posted you should.




Mr. HE


----------



## MNGuns

Hddnis said:


> So you basically agree with me? Based on what you just posted you should.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE




I don't believe you and I are on the same page.


----------



## farber56

MNGuns

DR has every right to build and sell whatever they choose. I'm sure that their model differs by more than just the paint color. They make their products in America, and they make very high quality products. DR/CHP is one of the last companies to manufacture in the USA, as well as offer the technical support and warranty that they do. Stop dogging on the way they do business. If you don't like it don't buy DR. I'm sure they won't miss you. As for them copying the SS design; if it ain't broke don't fix it. What's to say that they won't release a 2nd generation rack and pinion splitter that addresses all the weak points of the SS?

In the mean time you have plenty of good ideas you offered earlier in the thread. Why not go out back to your work shop and get started on your on design?

As for DR-They've got my vote and as soon as I need a new splitter I'm gonna look long and hard at their product.


----------



## Locust Cutter

farber56 said:


> MNGuns
> 
> DR has every right to build and sell whatever they choose. I'm sure that their model differs by more than just the paint color. They make their products in America, and they make very high quality products. DR/CHP is one of the last companies to manufacture in the USA, as well as offer the technical support and warranty that they do. Stop dogging on the way they do business. If you don't like it don't buy DR. I'm sure they won't miss you. As for them copying the SS design; if it ain't broke don't fix it. What's to say that they won't release a 2nd generation rack and pinion splitter that addresses all the weak points of the SS?
> 
> In the mean time you have plenty of good ideas you offered earlier in the thread. Why not go out back to your work shop and get started on your on design?
> 
> As for DR-They've got my vote and as soon as I need a new splitter I'm gonna look long and hard at their product.


 
I have no axe to grind with either company. They both build great products across the board. Paul did it first and others are now chasing him. MN, you want to see a clearly different entry out of DR. I salute and applaud your integrity, loyalty and individualism. I believe that there are still several differences between the two and that's what counts. Outside of drive-train layouts and cheap superficial details, how truly different are most cars from one another now? I submit that there is a tangible and quantifiable difference in the driving experiences between a Chevy Malibu and a BMW 535I, even though both vehicle are V6 powered, 4-door sedans. You can only re-invent something so-much before it no longer works for the intended task, (at least the way for which it was desired to). Let's see in 10 years who's still in business (and selling what models, a major financial collapse not-withstanding). Time will tell which designs/ideas were good and manufactured to a high enough standard for the task.


----------



## old cookie

Very well said Locust cutter


----------



## KiwiBro

Dalmatian90 said:


> The patents expired in July. Of 1997.
> 
> They've had small-shop competitors who've gone after them on price for a long time -- Wood Wolf, the Canadian copy cats, the Amish dude in Ohio.


 Wow, I had no idea patent protection had been off for that long. Thanks. It begs the question why DR and their ilk weren't on the scene earlier. Perhaps they just weren't aware of the design (maybe that is why we don't see SS engaging the market like DR do - they were trying to fly under the radar), or DR wanted to come up with something they thought could better the SS that was worth patenting for a little protection, or maybe they thought the market just wasn't big enough to justify them chasing? Perhaps DR POWER will answer that for us?

How busy are the lower priced copycats and what is the build quality of their machines like? Does anyone know?

Regarding your DR rising tide comment, I agree that will happen, but the fact it may brings me back to one of my questions earlier - why did SS leave those sales on the table like that for a competitor taking a similar high-quality/price position? What am I missing?


----------



## KiwiBro

Locust Cutter said:


> Paul did it first and others are now chasing him.



Did he, or did he just buy the rights?
Patent protection lapsed over 10 years ago, apparently, so I'd say they've had a bonus run over and above the patent period and are actually pretty darn lucky nobody has taken them head-to-head like DR are doing now.

Also, your comment about others chasing him is interesting. What has SS done to mitigate the loss of patent protection? Did they create new advancements and patent those? Did they address the myriad issues people have raised in this thread to better their product?

What will be interesting is if anyone can retain the good things about the SS design and address the issues many have raised in here, to come out with a product/price mix that's more compelling than SS's offerings. That is, after all, one of the prime benefits competition brings to consumers.


----------



## Pcoz88

*buy one yet?????*

Any body buy one yet???????:msp_confused::msp_confused::msp_confused:


----------



## sunfish

KiwiBro said:


> Did he, *or did he just buy the rights?*
> Patent protection lapsed over 10 years ago, apparently, so I'd say they've had a bonus run over and above the patent period and are actually pretty darn lucky nobody has taken them head-to-head like DR are doing now.
> 
> Also, your comment about others chasing him is interesting. What has SS done to mitigate the loss of patent protection? Did they create new advancements and patent those? Did they address the myriad issues people have raised in this thread to better their product?
> 
> What will be interesting is if anyone can *retain the good things about the SS design and address the issues many have raised in here*, to come out with a product/price mix that's more compelling than SS's offerings. That is, after all, one of the prime benefits competition brings to consumers.


 Paul bought the business from the inventor, his father or father-in-law, can't remember which. He has made small changes over the years and a better machine it is. 

As far as the issues many have raised here about the SS (most have never used one). I have no issues with mine. The main issue, it is not highway tow-able, so what. It's not made to go down the highway. 

If I could change something, it'd be only one thing, adding a tow bar to pull around with a tractor or ATV. Aside from that, the machine is perfect. Why mess with perfection?


----------



## Forky

Forky said:


> I just have one question for DR Power; taking all of these suggestions for improvements into consideration, what would be a realistic date to expect a 2nd generation DR Kinetic splitter to hit the market. I am very intriqued by these splitters and am considering purchasing one, but after hearing all the proposed improvements in this thread, I am not sure now is a good time to purchase! :msp_confused:


 
DR POWER~ Any estimation/guess on when a 2nd generation would be available?


----------



## gravely_todd

I would have a hard time spending that much money on a splitter that doesn't, as far as I can see, operate vertically. I do all my splitting vertical, as I refuse to lift huge chunks when I can just shimmy them around on the ground....

Todd


----------



## MNGuns

gravely_todd said:


> I would have a hard time spending that much money on a splitter that doesn't, as far as I can see, operate vertically. I do all my splitting vertical, as I refuse to lift huge chunks when I can just shimmy them around on the ground....
> 
> Todd


 
If you are shimmy'n big rounds, I would have to guess you are not a commercial processor. This machine perhaps is not best suited for you.


----------



## KiwiBro

*From the latest CRD Metal*

Can't edit the title, was supposed to read:

From the latest CRD Metal Works (the woodbine people) mailer:

"We will be spending the fourth quarter engineering a product no one else in the firewood market has ever experienced. Although we can't elaborate at the current time, be prepared for a entry-level product that will be a game changer in the firewood business for years to come."

A flywheel splitter with a difference, perhaps?


----------



## MNGuns

KiwiBro said:


> Can't edit the title, was supposed to read:
> 
> From the latest CRD Metal Works (the woodbine people) mailer:
> 
> "We will be spending the fourth quarter engineering a product no one else in the firewood market has ever experienced. Although we can't elaborate at the current time, be prepared for a entry-level product that will be a game changer in the firewood business for years to come."
> 
> A flywheel splitter with a difference, perhaps?



It's a SS painted purple...:msp_thumbup:

j/k

I look forward to seeing what they have to offer. The process is not difficult, but there are many ways to get to the finished product.


----------



## gravely_todd

MNGuns said:


> If you are shimmy'n big rounds, I would have to guess you are not a commercial processor. This machine perhaps is not best suited for you.


 
No, just and individual that burns about 10 cords a year.

Todd


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> Can't edit the title, was supposed to read:
> 
> From the latest CRD Metal Works (the woodbine people) mailer:
> 
> "We will be spending the fourth quarter engineering a product no one else in the firewood market has ever experienced. Although we can't elaborate at the current time, be prepared for a entry-level product that will be a game changer in the firewood business for years to come."
> 
> A flywheel splitter with a difference, perhaps?


 
Lasers man, friggin' lasers!!!


----------



## KiwiBro

D&B Mack said:


> Lasers man, friggin' lasers!!!


 
Dalmatian90 is way ahead of them then with a previous post in another thread:

"Squirrels with freakin' laser beams.

Prototype A:






Prototype B:



"


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> Dalmatian90 is way ahead of them then with a previous post in another thread:
> 
> "Squirrels with freakin' laser beams.
> 
> Prototype A:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prototype B:
> 
> 
> 
> "


 
I vote for B, less chance of friendly fire and/or collateral damage. :msp_w00t:


----------



## KiwiBro

Well, I wasn't supposed to say anything because I'm bound by non-disclosure agreements but I'm sure you guys can keep a secret. I've been working on the next-gen splitters on contract to CRD. Progress has been slow going on account of not having squirrels in New Zealand and the possum substitutes are slow and drink way too much beer, but I'm both pleased and proud to advise we've perfected the esquilo loco model and it will be released shortly. That's all I'm prepared to mention at thyis point, but stay tuned. These next-gen bio splitters will blow you away, no doubt about it.



**edit** I don't know if there are some equally fun loving criminals on this board or not but to those who have PM'ed me asking if they should hold off their buying decisions until the esquilo loco model is released, can I just point out a few things. Firstly, my post above is a joke. Secondly, if you guys noticed it as such but PM'ed me anyway, I love your sense of humour - keep up the good work.


----------



## PJH

*Yes thats true, but it is made in China . If that matters to you. I like USA*



Pcoz88 said:


> Speedco has come out with there own rack and pinion splitter.There on TSC web page.!!!WHOA!$ and its towable!!!!!$1699.


 
Yes thats true, but it is made in China . If that matters to you. I like USA


----------



## Pcoz88

It does matter but , $1000 does matter too!! Its towable which is what I need.Yes I rather buy USA and We do most times(if possible) but except this splitter.Unless DR or SS comes out with something thats tow able, iam interested in the TSC one.


Pete


----------



## KiwiBro

I wonder how big/heavy the flywheels would need to be to drive through a star or honeycomb wedge.
Use the same 'don't mess with us' flywheels to drive a guillotine (or circular blade) and I can see the EPA wetting themselves in anticipation of a mega-production processor that needs just a fifth of the condensed dinosaurs required by current processors.


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> I wonder how big/heavy the flywheels would need to be to drive through a star or honeycomb wedge.
> Use the same 'don't mess with us' flywheels to drive a guillotine (or circular blade) and I can see the EPA wetting themselves in anticipation of a mega-production processor that needs just a fifth of the condensed dinosaurs required by current processors.


 
With an inertia splitter that large, I would not want to see what happens when there is a split failure... someone would most likely be placed on the DL.


----------



## Pcoz88

Has any body bought one????

Pete


----------



## HDBiker2000

I get a big kick out the DR commercial on TV. It sure does split pretty fast compared to a hyd splitter in nice straight grain wood. I'd like to see how it does with some nice snarly red oak like I was splitting last spring. My 27 ton splitter was grunting on some of those pieces. 

Don't think this splitter would be able to do the job for me.


----------



## craddock

Like I said, when I demoed it with nice wood it was fast but when I threw on some knotty beech it didn't like it at all. In a perfect world this thing would be great but when you get into the knotty stuff give me my 35 ton husky. If you had a splitter already and bought this one for the easy wood then it would save you time but then you would have to have old trusty to use for the bad stuff. Of course this is just my opinion after demoing it.


----------



## D&B Mack

First, I do not own any inertia splitter. The way I would look at it though if I did not own a splitter at all and was making my first purchase. After seeing a few brands in action, I am guessing I could split 90 to 95% of the wood I get. Then, I could pile the stubborn pieces aside and rent a hydraulic for a day and do those when the pile got big enough. Seeing the speed of these machines, I would believe the labor hours saved in that 90% would pay for the rental of the hydraulic splitter.


----------



## KiwiBro

Pcoz88 said:


> Has any body bought one????
> 
> Pete


Good question. 
I note DR POWER checked out of this thread quite some time ago. 
Quite a few seem to be buying the speeco. How that holds up over time will be the clincher, me thinks.


----------



## HDBiker2000

I can understand about being faster in the perfect "wood splitting" world, but the advertisement can be a little misleading as well. My brother-in-law (city slicker) said I needed one of the DR splitters so I can get the firewood made faster. Like I said previously, I split a lot of snarly oak (I'll bet about 65 to 70%) and the DR just wouldn't be able to do it. He thinks that all firewood is the same so the DR can split it and there must be other people see the ad would think the same. 

There might be some disclaimers in the advertisement that states it might not be suitable all type of wood that I didn't see, but if not there should be. I could see a lawsuit coming if there isn't a disclaimer.


----------



## KiwiBro

HDBiker2000 said:


> I could see a lawsuit coming



Notwithstanding oodles of wonderful people and places, that right there makes me thankful we don't live in USA.


----------



## D&B Mack

HDBiker2000 said:


> I could see a lawsuit coming if there isn't a disclaimer.


 
That's why it costs 3k instead of 2k.


----------



## mooseracing

KiwiBro said:


> Notwithstanding oodles of wonderful people and places, that right there makes me thankful we don't live in USA.


 
They try to stupid proof everything, and evolution creates dumber idiots


----------



## Locust Cutter

mooseracing said:


> They try to stupid proof everything, and evolution creates dumber idiots


 
Man's capability for intelligent engineering will always be eclipsed by the underestimation of his ignorance and his greater capacity for (mostly) un-intentional stupidity... If nothing else, working for the Gov't has taught me that....:bang:


----------



## Pcoz88

Any body thinking about buying one????

Pete


----------



## epicklein22

Pcoz88 said:


> Any body thinking about buying one????
> 
> Pete



Saw one at my dealer. Looks heavy duty. $2500 with the table. Splitting components look very similar (almost identical) to the SS. It has some folding handles in the front for moving it around, that's a very good idea. I think these will be a good alternative to the SS and definitely a step up from the Speeco.


----------



## CampHamp

My Decision...
=========
I've decided to get one of the DR machines. Just called in my credit card number. If I don't like it for any reason after a whole year, I can just give it back for a full refund (minus transport cost). That's a pretty good way for me to hedge the risk that these either have some defect, that there will be a big price drop or that there is a major product improvement coming.


My Needs...
========
I'm not a commercial user. I burn about 6 cord a year and my brother hauls about 4 cord a year off the same property. We have a New Hampshire forest - oak, beech, birch, maple.

I have been splitting mostly by hand, though I've rented hydrolic splitters before and knew that I would one day get one. I can split about as fast by hand as a hydrolic and so really like the idea of a faster split with these kinetic models. I'm not sure yet, but I think that it will suit my own work tempo better than the hydrolics did.

I used to cut my rounds out in the woods and split out there too (if the bugs weren't bad) and then just throw cut wood into my UTV. Without the tow option, I'll have to bring the rounds to the splitter. I think that will work fine, pulling whole logs off the UTV and directly onto the splitter.

I like buying American-made things to help stimulate our economy, but 33% is a big price difference between the RapidFire and the SpeedPro (the 2 machines I considered). The DR would need to be better equipment at that much of a higher cost to me.


My Analysis...
=========
I would have gotten the new SpeedPro kenetic splitter, because I love the price, tow hitch and included table. However, the reviews on the TSC site show four machines with broken teeth now. Also, when I had a look at the first one out here, it was wobbling due to poorly balanced flywheels. I went back for another demo and that time, the rod that engages the ram from the handle had bent and it wasn't splitting (it was disengaging too early now, with this shortened bar).

The two AS reviewers who bought SpeedPros had different disengagement sensitivities (one would plow through knotty stuff until it stalled the motor and the other would pop back without enough force). Finally, there are a couple video's on this site which raised some safety questions to me... a side whack from a log and also one flung backwards and upwards (i.e. where your head lives). I am guessing that the wedge isn't sharp enough on the SpeedCo and causes too much resistance because a SuperSplit owner said that he hadn't seen log flight like that before. Note that no AS members report broken teeth and both like their machines.

If TSC would let me return it after one year with no questions asked, then I would probably have been one of the first to own a SpreedPro. Instead, I'll take the DR deal and see if the engineering and American workmanship of the RapidFire live up to the DR marketing. I have seen no customer images of the DR and only one comment (here) from someone who has seen it running in person. So it is a risk, but mitigated by the return offer, I believe...

I'll post some initial findings next week.


----------



## KiwiBro

Thank you.
I'm sure many of us are keen to read what you think of it. Any pictures and videos would be fantastic also.

I wonder how many people would consider their DR splitter transport costs awfully cheap hire costs for a year of working their DR hard, knowing they are going to return it at the end of the year. Part of it's higher price must surely go towards funding this awesome guarantee option and any abuse thereof.






CampHamp said:


> My Decision...
> =========
> I've decided to get one of the DR machines. Just called in my credit card number. If I don't like it for any reason after a whole year, I can just give it back for a full refund (minus transport cost). That's a pretty good way for me to hedge the risk that these either have some defect, that there will be a big price drop or that there is a major product improvement coming.
> 
> 
> My Needs...
> ========
> I'm not a commercial user. I burn about 6 cord a year and my brother hauls about 4 cord a year off the same property. We have a New Hampshire forest - oak, beech, birch, maple.
> 
> I have been splitting mostly by hand, though I've rented hydrolic splitters before and knew that I would one day get one. I can split about as fast by hand as a hydrolic and so really like the idea of a faster split with these kinetic models. I'm not sure yet, but I think that it will suit my own work tempo better than the hydrolics did.
> 
> I used to cut my rounds out in the woods and split out there too (if the bugs weren't bad) and then just throw cut wood into my UTV. Without the tow option, I'll have to bring the rounds to the splitter. I think that will work fine, pulling whole logs off the UTV and directly onto the splitter.
> 
> I like buying American-made things to help stimulate our economy, but 33% is a big price difference between the RapidFire and the SpeedPro (the 2 machines I considered). The DR would need to be better equipment at that much of a higher cost to me.
> 
> 
> My Analysis...
> =========
> I would have gotten the new SpeedPro kenetic splitter, because I love the price, tow hitch and included table. However, the reviews on the TSC site show four machines with broken teeth now. Also, when I had a look at the first one out here, it was wobbling due to poorly balanced flywheels. I went back for another demo and that time, the rod that engages the ram from the handle had bent and it wasn't splitting (it was disengaging too early now, with this shortened bar).
> 
> The two AS reviewers who bought SpeedPros had different disengagement sensitivities (one would plow through knotty stuff until it stalled the motor and the other would pop back without enough force). Finally, there are a couple video's on this site which raised some safety questions to me... a side whack from a log and also one flung backwards and upwards (i.e. where your head lives). I am guessing that the wedge isn't sharp enough on the SpeedCo and causes too much resistance because a SuperSplit owner said that he hadn't seen log flight like that before. Note that no AS members report broken teeth and both like their machines.
> 
> If TSC would let me return it after one year with no questions asked, then I would probably have been one of the first to own a SpreedPro. Instead, I'll take the DR deal and see if the engineering and American workmanship of the RapidFire live up to the DR marketing. I have seen no customer images of the DR and only one comment (here) from someone who has seen it running in person. So it is a risk, but mitigated by the return offer, I believe...
> 
> I'll post some initial findings next week.


----------



## D&B Mack

Mine was ordered today, expected to arrive in two weeks. Will let you know how it pans out, I hope well. All of my comments can pretty much be mirrored by camp. Except, I split more per year in a semi-commercial way (bundled firewood). Looking forward to the review.


----------



## KiwiBro

If SS offered the same right of return period as DR, would you two have chosen SS?


----------



## Dalmatian90

Why am I half expecting to see KiwiKinetics come out with one of these in about six months :msp_tongue:


----------



## sunfish

Dalmatian90 said:


> Why am I half expecting to see KiwiKinetics come out with one of these in about six months :msp_tongue:


 
Lots of market research, that's for sure! :msp_biggrin:


----------



## KiwiBro

Bringing to market just 1/10th of the ideas currently swimming in my head would bankrupt me. I'll let the much anticipated post-flywheel patent competitive environment that's finally starting to blossom up there decide which, if any, of my ideas had/have any merit in the real world. Far cheaper this way. 

I'm still of the mind that Blount are the most serious competitive threat to SS, at this stage, although it remains to be proven that what DR lacks in productive, differentiating innovation, it makes up for with it's marketing and guarantee angles. Interesting times, for sure. Lov'n it.


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> If SS offered the same right of return period as DR, would you two have chosen SS?


 
Maybe, I am not going to be towing mine. I am going to try it out at our house and then take it to the wood yard for working. So I like the balloon tires for moving it around.


----------



## CampHamp

Here are pictures of the machine. You can see the handles that were added after they filmed their marketing videos. I included a close-up picture of one. It looks easy to swing out of the way (I didn't try yet, though). You can move it pretty easily on the flat but it's heavy and hills will be tough - it's staying put in my case.

I started it up for a test run, even in the rain. Directions say to run it at full throttle. No wobbling. It went easily through the few logs I had at hand (one of them was gnarly, but only 8" across). The ram seems to move a bit slower than the SpeedPro I tested. The feel of the engage/disengage seemed more crisp to me - maybe it's because the flywheels have lower RPM's the way that I tested or maybe it is the different lever systems (?). I'd like to try the SpeedPro at lower throttle to see if that makes a difference (someone here said they like running their's slower - so if you test one, try it at slower speeds).

Let me know if there are any questions. We'll get more challenging stuff through it this weekend and will take a video.

Thanks to all the members for sharing your thoughts on this great site!

View attachment 202902

View attachment 202903

View attachment 202904


----------



## KiwiBro

Thanks. Please do keep us posted.


----------



## D&B Mack

CampHamp said:


> Here are pictures of the machine. You can see the handles that were added after they filmed their marketing videos. I included a close-up picture of one. It looks easy to swing out of the way (I didn't try yet, though). You can move it pretty easily on the flat but it's heavy and hills will be tough - it's staying put in my case.
> 
> I started it up for a test run, even in the rain. Directions say to run it at full throttle. No wobbling. It went easily through the few logs I had at hand (one of them was gnarly, but only 8" across). The ram seems to move a bit slower than the SpeedPro I tested. The feel of the engage/disengage seemed more crisp to me - maybe it's because the flywheels have lower RPM's the way that I tested or maybe it is the different lever systems (?). I'd like to try the SpeedPro at lower throttle to see if that makes a difference (someone here said they like running their's slower - so if you test one, try it at slower speeds).
> 
> Let me know if there are any questions. We'll get more challenging stuff through it this weekend and will take a video.
> 
> Thanks to all the members for sharing your thoughts on this great site!
> 
> View attachment 202902
> 
> View attachment 202903
> 
> View attachment 202904


 

So I will get the handles with mine? Or do you have to pay extra?


----------



## BSD

I'm glad someone finally bought one of these things, put it through its paces and see how she does. I'd really like to see some video of stuff similar to what I posted of my Speedpro after I modded it. 

being towable and almost a grand less was the deciding factor for me choosing the speedpro. the DR warranty/no fault return policy definitely takes the cake.

Best of luck with it.


----------



## CampHamp

D&B Mack said:


> So I will get the handles with mine? Or do you have to pay extra?


 
You'll get them. I didn't ask for them or pay anything extra. The DR guy on this site said it was a late addition to the design, so I was expecting them.


----------



## CampHamp

KiwiBro said:


> If SS offered the same right of return period as DR, would you two have chosen SS?


 
Tough question. I flip-flopped on it.

There are two "unknowns" here: (1) we don't know how long the average Rapid Fire will last, and (2) we don't know how long Super Split will remain in business.

Conversely, I do expect the SS machines to last (good track record) and I expect DR to be around for a while (good sales engine, good service, good products, many products). I'd be covered under warranty if the DR machine crapped out (5 yrs coverage for an extra $100) but it really blows if you need proprietary parts (rack or pinion) after a company goes under. I'd be afraid of SS going under in this new market and so my answer is that I would still do the DR purchase.

Without a patent, SS probably needs better marketing to keep the same sales stream. Maybe there'll be an acquisition by someone who does that well to give them a boost? Then you'd have a different answer from me to your question. :msp_wink:


----------



## sunfish

CampHamp said:


> Tough question. I flip-flopped on it.
> 
> There are two "unknowns" here: (1) we don't know how long the average Rapid Fire will last, and (2) we don't know how long Super Split will remain in business.
> 
> Conversely, I do expect the SS machines to last (good track record) and I expect DR to be around for a while (good sales engine, good service, good products, many products). I'd be covered under warranty if the DR machine crapped out (5 yrs coverage for an extra $100) but it really blows if you need proprietary parts (rack or pinion) after a company goes under. I'd be afraid of SS going under in this new market and so my answer is that I would still do the DR purchase.
> 
> Without a patent, SS probably needs better marketing to keep the same sales stream. Maybe there'll be an acquisition by someone who does that well to give them a boost? Then you'd have a different answer from me to your question. :msp_wink:



I don't see SS going out of business, or changing much. Like you said, they have a good track record, very good. And have been in business a long time, I believe over 20 years now. They are a small company and sell machines as fast as they make em, two week delivery in the summer and up to two months in the Fall and winter is what I've been told. Parts should not be a problem either way, I believe the rack and pinion and bearings are stock parts that can be got from most industrial supply type places. The thing is also super simple and easily fixed if needs be.


----------



## EXCALIBER

Seems these things work great in straight grained hardwood with out any crotches in them, but how does one of these do with a 20 or 30 inch piece of wet cottonwood? If I had straight grained hardwood I could split most of that with my Fiskars and not have need for the splitter. So anybody spit anything that is actually hard to split like wet cottonwood?


----------



## Dalmatian90

Looking up, green cottonwood is 58# per c.f. 

30" diameter x 20" long log...let's see that's (pi x r^2) * length...((3.14 * (15 * 15)) * 20)) / 1,728 c.i./c.f. = 8 c.f. by my math. 8 * 58 = 464# ...so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there's not many folks picking those monsters up and putting 'em on their kinetic splitters. 

Sounds like the realm of vertical splitters, log lifts, and noodling to me.

Unless you have a large production table or platform like the LogRite trailer for the SuperSplit and you're using a tractor to load the logs up on it.

For smaller pieces it's still an interesting question.


----------



## CampHamp

As requested, here's a look at the RapidFire in action.

I didn't have anything interesting to split lying around, so I cut down a Beech tree yesterday to feed this new machine. I decided to cut the butt end first instead of the crotch pieces further up the tree. We'll get try the crotch pieces later this week. However, this piece is bigger than I usually work with and it had some character to it: it was live wet beech, it had two center eyes (must have had two leads as a youngster and they merged together over the years), it had a few knots as well that were about 2" in diameter. Not something I would like cutting by hand and is a good early test for me.

I'm taking it cautiously, you'll notice. I have tons of respect for the forces at work here and I'm not comfortable yet having only done a few much easier pieces with this splitter so far. Sorry for the watermark in the video - it was a surprise to me when I was done assembling the video.

I marked with text in the video just before two tougher splits where the log rode up on the wedge a couple inches. These two high riders were tougher cuts through knots or curvy grain. I'm not sure if there is a technique for keeping these down on the wedge, but I expect it is just a matter of running them back through.

Working the rounds off the back of my UTV is going to work well. Instead of leaving large pieces on the table, I learned to pull these right back to the tailgate as a working table.

I don't like how the guides on either side of the beam prevent me from sliding splits right back and around without lifting them up over these rails. You'll see I'm fighting with these early on in the video. They may help center rounds (tdb), but I'm not convinced it will be worth the hassle.

This splitting is really fun. I felt safe and will be much more productive than swinging the axe.

[video=youtube;iFiPurAkeso]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFiPurAkeso[/video]


----------



## mooseracing

Dalmatian90 said:


> Looking up, green cottonwood is 58# per c.f.


 
Freshly cut wet stuff, or down and dry?


----------



## BSD

I don't think I've split any american beech ever, but it looks pretty similar to our elm we have out here. pretty stringy stuff.

how tall is the wedge? it seems it might be a little short?


----------



## CampHamp

BSD said:


> I don't think I've split any american beech ever, but it looks pretty similar to our elm we have out here. pretty stringy stuff.
> 
> how tall is the wedge? it seems it might be a little short?


 
The wedge is 6 1/4" high. Maybe the engineers think that it's better to ensure a clean pass through to keep from having too much pressure build up (?) I'll see if this riding-up recurs with other pieces (I expect so). Wonder what the SS and SpeedPro wedge heights are and if these users get this behavior?


----------



## D&B Mack

CampHamp said:


> The wedge is 6 1/4" high. Maybe the engineers think that it's better to ensure a clean pass through to keep from having too much pressure build up (?) I'll see if this riding-up recurs with other pieces (I expect so). Wonder what the SS and SpeedPro wedge heights are and if these users get this behavior?


 
SpeeCo is 8" (according to spec page), not sure about the SS.


----------



## BSD

CampHamp said:


> The wedge is 6 1/4" high. Maybe the engineers think that it's better to ensure a clean pass through to keep from having too much pressure build up (?) I'll see if this riding-up recurs with other pieces (I expect so). Wonder what the SS and SpeedPro wedge heights are and if these users get this behavior?


speedpro's is 8" and I think it makes a big difference. we have had a few that don't split cleanly with some nasty twisted hickory but I haven't split any elm yet with mine. we keep a hatchet close by to get the strings.


----------



## millerhill

It's the super split private labeled. Yes they're fast, but along with fast you also get dangerous. I wouldn't own one for that reason. The video is pretty funny. Total splitting speed (how fast your wood pile gets to its destination) does not start or end with the splitting process itself, so speed is relative for sure.


----------



## Hddnis

millerhill said:


> It's the super split private labeled. Yes they're fast, but along with fast you also get dangerous. I wouldn't own one for that reason. The video is pretty funny. Total splitting speed (how fast your wood pile gets to its destination) does not start or end with the splitting process itself, so speed is relative for sure.




You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Why don't you try learning a few facts before you go dancing all over your keyboard.



Mr. HE


----------



## KiwiBro

opcorn:


----------



## Locust Cutter

BSD said:


> speedpro's is 8" and I think it makes a big difference. we have had a few that don't split cleanly with some nasty twisted hickory but I haven't split any elm yet with mine. we keep a hatchet close by to get the strings.



A hatchet by the splitter can be a real lifesaver. Even in hardwood, it's handy as all hell. Can be a back-saver too'.



millerhill said:


> *It's the super split private labeled*. Yes they're fast, but along with fast* you also get dangerous*. I wouldn't own one for that reason. The video is pretty funny. Total splitting speed (how fast your wood pile gets to its destination) does not start or end with the splitting process itself, so *speed is relative* for sure.



1. Is that courtesy of Paul or an analogy?

2&3. How would it more or less dangerous than any other splitter on the market? Complacency can be just as dangerous if not more so than "speed" or more accurately velocity. I wish I had access to the studies to accurately reference them for justification, but there have been multiple studies across various activities that have shown, on average, people tend to pay more attention to what they're doing when there is a higher chance of injury. IE; Driving faster, flying aerobatics, etc. If anything I'd argue that conventional Hyd splitters are FAR more dangerous, especially the slower ones, as you're far more likely to be momentarily distracted from the task at hand, quite possibly at the most in-opportune time. I know that I've looked away several times while splitting and never really thought about it, until now. I think that a S.S. or a similar concept would be a lot safer in the long run, as you could pre-position the log against the wedge before activating the ram, leaving your hands free and CLEAR of the line of fire.



Hddnis said:


> *You clearly don't know what you're talking about*. Why don't you try learning a few facts before you go dancing all over your keyboard.
> Mr. HE



Why not give him the chance to explain himself, ask questions or offer guidance before summarily running him down, especially in a public forum? The best analogy I ever received about being a NCO that was worth something, was to praise publicly and admonish privately, albeit in slightly different vernacular. I'm finding as I get a bit older, that goes for parenting, mentoring, and generally being a better person to be around.


----------



## millerhill

So because my opinion doesn't match up with yours, you get all over my case? Nice. So the faster you go, the safer it is? Tell that to the Indy drivers. And I don't know what I'm talking about. 

Reality is that many people split wood with a helper and that's where a lot of accidents happen. Most likely the users here are safety conscious, but it's a big world out there and a lot of people are using these machines without training or the benefit of years of splitting experience. So get two people like that trying to see how fast they can go splitting wood and tell me how it's safer. Just sayin'.

I like this machine (I don't own one but have tried one), and for many it's great. Just not for me. I don't like the small wedge and the lack of a 4 or 6 way.


----------



## Dalmatian90

mooseracing said:


> Freshly cut wet stuff, or down and dry?


 
The poster was asking about "wet cottonwood" so I quoted the weight given in the tables for green cottonwood.


----------



## nysparkie

*RapidFire Splitter*

I picked mine up last Thursday. The Dealer near the shores of Lake Ontario wanted to see it operate after he set it up.
I took 6 chunks with me. Some at least 20 inch Ash with knots in it. Beech and some Chestnut. The Big Ash with the knots had to be moved so you split, AT First around the knot. After that was sliced off I took on the knot. 6 inch thing. I had to hit it three times. On the third hit the knot split like an egg shell. On my own I split so much wood on 1 1/2 hours, something like approaching 4 face, I had to stop and stack for the wood was piled up higher than the splitting table. On This past Sunday as my wife stack and after I got the movements down as to what was what. This time I actually had the chunks closer at hand still in trailer so all I had to do was turn around grab. Turn back and split. In 45 minutes we finished 3 cords. She never had to wait for there was always split wood either on the table or pushed by the next split on the ground. Couple of Y Branch pieces had to be hit two times to split. Knots, most were taken care of with one hit.
The reason I bought the RapidFire is I have other DR Products and have found them reliable. Tech support is superb. At this time if you order one Factory Direct you can save $540 on the manual 6 HP Subaru start model. They do have an electric start. You get a free three warranty and a One Year Hands on Use - no like? take back offer. I have a 27 Ton Troy Bilt Hydro. It has served me well. I didn't like the bending over waiting for the split to finish to grab 1/2 of the split to split again. RapidFire has that large table, Xtra cost, which served me well. I can split something approaching 20 inches. Leave one half on the table pushed over to the side. Finish the other half grabbing that saved half lickity split - well less than a minute the whole thing is gone and you are moving on to the next chunk. Yes you have to lift everything. I am 59 and if it is way large I would split it anyhow even if using the Troy Bilt vertically. I hat trying to work the darn thing around when squatting. I save those xtra large ones for a nice cool day for the maul and wedges. Just to small them up.
I have been extremely happy so far with this kinetic splitter. I still have some 19 or so cords of Spring cut timber to go through. This machine seems to be extremely rugged. It weighs near 500 lbs. One thingy the irks me. No trailer tongue. Why? I don't know. I have been looking at it and trying to see how one can be attached. Speedco sold at TSC has a trailer tongue on theirs. I may get some idea from look at theirs. If I figure it out I will post how it was done. 



Pcoz88 said:


> Has any body bought one????
> 
> Pete


----------



## nysparkie

*Use of vs. Instructions say...*

I notice you place the chunk against the wedge. My instructions tell me to keep it up against the ram. Just wondering why
you are using it other than how the directions instruct?




CampHamp said:


> As requested, here's a look at the RapidFire in action.
> 
> I didn't have anything interesting to split lying around, so I cut down a Beech tree yesterday to feed this new machine. I decided to cut the butt end first instead of the crotch pieces further up the tree. We'll get try the crotch pieces later this week. However, this piece is bigger than I usually work with and it had some character to it: it was live wet beech, it had two center eyes (must have had two leads as a youngster and they merged together over the years), it had a few knots as well that were about 2" in diameter. Not something I would like cutting by hand and is a good early test for me.
> 
> I'm taking it cautiously, you'll notice. I have tons of respect for the forces at work here and I'm not comfortable yet having only done a few much easier pieces with this splitter so far. Sorry for the watermark in the video - it was a surprise to me when I was done assembling the video.
> 
> I marked with text in the video just before two tougher splits where the log rode up on the wedge a couple inches. These two high riders were tougher cuts through knots or curvy grain. I'm not sure if there is a technique for keeping these down on the wedge, but I expect it is just a matter of running them back through.
> 
> Working the rounds off the back of my UTV is going to work well. Instead of leaving large pieces on the table, I learned to pull these right back to the tailgate as a working table.
> 
> I don't like how the guides on either side of the beam prevent me from sliding splits right back and around without lifting them up over these rails. You'll see I'm fighting with these early on in the video. They may help center rounds (tdb), but I'm not convinced it will be worth the hassle.
> 
> This splitting is really fun. I felt safe and will be much more productive than swinging the axe.
> 
> [video=youtube;iFiPurAkeso]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFiPurAkeso[/video]


----------



## nysparkie

*DR RapidFire - Thumbs UP!*

I to like DR Products. They are truly close to commercial quality. I have a DR Brush and Field. It has cut some nasty acreage that a tractor with a brush hog could never get to.
I just bought a RapidFire and from the 8 or so cords I have split so far, I have used way less gasoline than a Hyd.
I have used way way way less time. I have not been hunched over a HYd. with my thigh getting bruised holding the
the control handle while waiting for the power stroke to finish the split. I can split faster than my wife can stack. 
So far more than just happy. :msp_smile: 
I got a three year warranty with the purchase. I got 540$ off the list price. I got to use hands on for one year - if I don't like I get so send back no questions. I paid xtra for the table and it cost ??? 800$ more than my 27 ton TroyBilt but if I had known about kinetic splitters three years ago when I bought my Hydraulic I may have ponied up the dollars then for a Super Split. Will the RapidFire last? I have no reason not to think it won't. Everything else I have bought from DR Country products is still in my garage. 



farber56 said:


> MNGuns
> 
> DR has every right to build and sell whatever they choose. I'm sure that their model differs by more than just the paint color. They make their products in America, and they make very high quality products. DR/CHP is one of the last companies to manufacture in the USA, as well as offer the technical support and warranty that they do. Stop dogging on the way they do business. If you don't like it don't buy DR. I'm sure they won't miss you. As for them copying the SS design; if it ain't broke don't fix it. What's to say that they won't release a 2nd generation rack and pinion splitter that addresses all the weak points of the SS?
> 
> In the mean time you have plenty of good ideas you offered earlier in the thread. Why not go out back to your work shop and get started on your on design?
> 
> As for DR-They've got my vote and as soon as I need a new splitter I'm gonna look long and hard at their product.


----------



## millerhill

As far as I know, DR doesn't manufacture anything. They private label and resell under their brand name, and a lot of it (not the Rapid Fire I'm happy to say) is made overseas.


----------



## KiwiBro

millerhill said:


> As far as I know, DR doesn't manufacture anything. They private label and resell under their brand name, and a lot of it (not the Rapid Fire I'm happy to say) is made overseas.


 
Would be kinda ironic if SS made DR machines for 'em, like they do for Logrite.


----------



## Locust Cutter

millerhill said:


> So because my opinion doesn't match up with yours, you get all over my case? Nice. So the faster you go, the safer it is? Tell that to the Indy drivers. And I don't know what I'm talking about.
> 
> Reality is that many people split wood with a helper and that's where a lot of accidents happen. Most likely the users here are safety conscious, but it's a big world out there and a lot of people are using these machines without training or the benefit of years of splitting experience. So get two people like that trying to see how fast they can go splitting wood and tell me how it's safer. Just sayin'.
> 
> I like this machine (I don't own one but have tried one), and for many it's great. Just not for me. I don't like the small wedge and the lack of a 4 or 6 way.


 
You position the log against the wedge, then activate the mechanism, what's so dangerous about that. Even my ARMY buddies could do that w/o out getting hurt, (this coming from a "chairforce" individual). I just don't think it's fair calling them any more inherently dangerous than any other splitter, based off of velocity. If you don't take the time to use the machine properly and learn about it's proper usage and functioning, then you have no business operating it. Either way, it no where near as dangerous as any any chainsaw known to man, much less the MAC 35 I learned on. You just can't use a faster machine (or a slower one) haphazardly. Rant over.


----------



## sunfish

KiwiBro said:


> Would be kinda ironic if SS made DR machines for 'em, like they do for Logrite.


 
Could very well be. It' sure looks like a SS... :msp_smile:


----------



## Hddnis

Locust Cutter said:


> Why not give him the chance to explain himself, ask questions or offer guidance before summarily running him down, especially in a public forum? The best analogy I ever received about being a NCO that was worth something, was to praise publicly and admonish privately, albeit in slightly different vernacular. I'm finding as I get a bit older, that goes for parenting, mentoring, and generally being a better person to be around.





If that works for you then great. But I guess you can't even take your own advice so I don't really see why I should. Besides, you post something clearly wrong in public and I'll call you on it in public for the benefit of all.




Mr. HE


----------



## Hddnis

millerhill said:


> As far as I know, DR doesn't manufacture anything. They private label and resell under their brand name, and a lot of it (not the Rapid Fire I'm happy to say) is made overseas.




I guess you must have missed some of the information contained in this thread.









Mr. HE


----------



## Iron Mike

Hddnis said:


> If that works for you then great. But I guess you can't even take your own advice so I don't really see why I should. Besides, you post something clearly wrong in public and I'll call you on it in public for the benefit of all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


 
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iCxZilrzg3s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>.


----------



## DR POWER

millerhill said:


> As far as I know, DR doesn't manufacture anything. They private label and resell under their brand name, and a lot of it (not the Rapid Fire I'm happy to say) is made overseas.


 
I had to jump in here...The DR Rapid Fire is assembled in our facility here in Winooski, Vermont.:flag: Thanks for the positive reviews DR Owner's -- we're proud to have you for customers.


----------



## DR POWER

*DR Rapid Fire Assembly-Line*

Here a few photos of the DR Rapid Fire being assembled and shipped from our manufacturing facility in Winooski, Vermont.


----------



## D&B Mack

DR POWER said:


> Here a few photos of the DR Rapid Fire being assembled and shipped from our manufacturing facility in Winooski, Vermont.


 
Where are the parts from? I have one coming anyway, but curious of original.


----------



## DR POWER

D&B Mack said:


> Where are the parts from? I have one coming anyway, but curious of original.


 
All of the steel is sourced from the USA, the flywheels are cast in Asia.


----------



## KiwiBro

Welcome back and thanks for the pictures. I was beginning to think you'd checked out for good.

While you're here:


What are the 'patent pending' aspects that differentiate this splitter form the incumbent SS model and others?
There are DR users who don't like the log cradle and would prefer a table level with the beam, which is an opinion contrary to the early adopters/testers of yours you referenced earlier to justify the inclusion of the cradle. Is there any chance the cradle will be dropped on future versions?
There's been a rather decent list of suggestions herein for the improvement of the DR splitter (and some worthwhile opportunities to differentiate it from other brands). Is a new version containing any improvements likely and if so, what improvements and when will that be released?
Any chance of making one of these available for an AS GTG please, to be run alongside a SS and possibly a Speepro also?
Are the flywheels balanced in USA or China? If the latter, are the machines run at WOT before leaving your factory?

Thanks.








DR POWER said:


> Here a few photos of the DR Rapid Fire being assembled and shipped from our manufacturing facility in Winooski, Vermont.


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> There are DR users who don't like the log cradle and would prefer a table level with the beam, which is an opinion contrary to the early adopters/testers of yours you referenced earlier to justify the inclusion of the cradle. Is there any chance the cradle will be dropped on future versions?


 
I believe you are thinking of the SpeeCo, pretty sure the table is level with the beam.


----------



## tassie phil

Very interesting thread! I would like to see a comparison between DR and Splitfire. I tried to import a supersplit to Australia, and they weren't interested; I see why now, a small company deciding to stay small, well good on them! CMCCUL8146, would you mind showing some photos of your machine? Have you thought of making a set of drawings and selling copies for all the less inventive of us who can still build things if shown how? Kiwi, why don't you talk to Chris at Taskpower in Nelson? They import the Splitfire from Canada and incorporate some real improvements to the base models, like larger wheels, removeable drawbar, large flat tables, increased working height...all things that I see people wishing for on the DR/supersplit, and they are right there in NZ.
Great input from lots of people on this thread, keep it up!


----------



## KiwiBro

D&B Mack said:


> I believe you are thinking of the SpeeCo, pretty sure the table is level with the beam.


----------



## KiwiBro

Thanks. Just visited their site. Looks like they do Speeco splitters as well! I wonder how long before they have the Speedpro flywheel splitter in their line up 



tassie phil said:


> Very interesting thread! I would like to see a comparison between DR and Splitfire. I tried to import a supersplit to Australia, and they weren't interested; I see why now, a small company deciding to stay small, well good on them! CMCCUL8146, would you mind showing some photos of your machine? Have you thought of making a set of drawings and selling copies for all the less inventive of us who can still build things if shown how? Kiwi, why don't you talk to Chris at Taskpower in Nelson? They import the Splitfire from Canada and incorporate some real improvements to the base models, like larger wheels, removeable drawbar, large flat tables, increased working height...all things that I see people wishing for on the DR/supersplit, and they are right there in NZ.
> Great input from lots of people on this thread, keep it up!


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


>


 
Good Eye, never noticed it. I wonder if they are small enough to not matter?


----------



## nysparkie

*Why Not?*



DR POWER said:


> Here a few photos of the DR Rapid Fire being assembled and shipped from our manufacturing facility in Winooski, Vermont.


 
*Why did DR decide not to put a towing capability on these?* Just asking. I have one but pushing it up ramps
onto a trailer sort of sucks, especially if you are alone, 490 some pounds. It would have been nice to pull with my ATV or Truck 
to get it different parts of the property to use right where I need it.


----------



## D&B Mack

nysparkie said:


> *Why did DR decide not to put a towing capability on these?* Just asking. I have one but pushing it up ramps
> onto a trailer sort of sucks, especially if you are alone, 490 some pounds. It would have been nice to pull with my ATV or Truck
> to get it different parts of the property to use right where I need it.


 
My guess: saves on the design. They can concentrate on how it splits wood rather than it being towed. 

Doesn't sound like much at first, but if you think about it, there is a lot of work into getting an "odd shaped" item to be pulled down the road at 50 mph and be liable for it. Also, this splitter sits much higher than the speeco. And to properly balance it for high speed towing, I would guess it would have to have a much wider axle. This would, in turn, make it harder to move around on-site which I believe is what they were aiming for.


----------



## BluCllrSchlr

I have an ancient Special Edition model SS built by FXG(Paul's predecessor & father-in-law?). I've been to Paul's shop in Bridgewater, MA, where he was gracious enough to let me come in, ask questions & even let me bring a piece of knarly elm & split it right there in his shop. After I bought mine, I was able to go to Paul & buy some bearings(not back-ordered, no waiting for shipping). Later, he replaced the pinion & bearings for me. My rack was bent, a friend helped me straighten it on a press & at Paul's recommendation, I took a die grinder & dressed the teeth that had started to bend over at the corners saving about $300. I essentially have a brand new Special Edition except for the motor. There is no telling how much wood this machine has split and I have every confidence it will out live me.

I don't have any DR products. My impression is they are aimed at the more industrious weekend warrior. To compare the highly polished info-mercial videos from DR to Paul's demo video, speaking only for myself, does give a relevant indication, in my opinion, of the resources and marketing aspirations of both companies. I think it's a safe bet that I'll never see Paul on some early morning cable channel demo-ing his splitter while I would be surprised if DR doesn't go down that very path(that one's on the house DR).

I don't know how many people work at DR, but am glad to know that they are at least doing what appears to be most of the manufacturing of their splitter in VT. Paul may very well be a one man operation. I hope there is room in the market for both companies. Out of deserved customer loyalty, I do lean toward SS. If I didn't already have a SS, I would consider both DR & SS with price, bearings, quality of castings/machining/assembly being considerations. As I don't presently use my splitter commercially, I'm fully confident I can if I choose & if I did decide to sell my splitter I would be able to get essentially what I have in it. 

Concerning operation, I'm vigilant to keep my left hand on top of the wood to hold it in position while my right hand lifts the lever. Doing it this way keeps my hand from being between the wedge & the wood. I'm also able to split the wood exactly where I want it. I split pine for kindling and can safely & quickly split it into 1/2" sticks that are perfect. This wouldn't be possible without holding the wood accurately. 

Splitting with the SS compared to a hydraulic is much like the difference between splitting with an ax/maul and a wedge. The wood splits instead of shears. 

All that being said, I must say that my biggest issue is that DR uses the term "revolutionary" in their advertising.


----------



## CampHamp

*Mini-rails*



KiwiBro said:


>


 
Yes they are part of the shipping machine - welded on. They slope on all sides (hard to see in the photo). Even though they are small enough to easily pull most pieces over, like a speed bump, the larger pieces and ones with bumps on their surface don't hop over as easily. Only the largest pieces will touch both rails, so they cannot be relied upon for hands-free splitting like one could using the SpeedPro cradle. They're not a big hassle for me, though, and I certainly would prefer these to anything larger (like a cradle).

It might keep the careless user from seating pieces at an angle or if someone doesn't put the log right against the wedge, then it would help prevent the piece from turning during the split. Maybe there are other reasons (?) but if you put the log to the wedge and hold the log until initial contact, then there is no value that I see.


----------



## nysparkie

The owners Manual shows having the chunk against the ram vs. the wedge. Doesn't explain why. I believe it is so hands and fingers are not laying about (Wrong place at wrong time) when the ram goes forward. Just saying.
:msp_scared:


Locust Cutter said:


> You position the log against the wedge, then activate the mechanism, what's so dangerous about that. Even my ARMY buddies could do that w/o out getting hurt, (this coming from a "chairforce" individual). I just don't think it's fair calling them any more inherently dangerous than any other splitter, based off of velocity. If you don't take the time to use the machine properly and learn about it's proper usage and functioning, then you have no business operating it. Either way, it no where near as dangerous as any any chainsaw known to man, much less the MAC 35 I learned on. You just can't use a faster machine (or a slower one) haphazardly. Rant over.


----------



## nysparkie

*Rapid Fire after three weeks*

Have been using the Rapid Fire for three weeks. Now. I can say that I am able to split at a rate that is X's time faster than my 27 ton Troy Bilt Hyd. When I have a pile of chunks right behind me as I work. I am able to split faster than my wife can stack by her taking three or four split pieces at a time and only walking from 0 ft to 16 ft while stacking. I say X times faster for I never timed myself on a Hydraulic Splitter. I have split 3 cords of timber in under 75 minutes on the Rapid Fire. I know it would have been a couple of hours minimum on the Troy Bilt. When all you have to do is turn, lift, place, ram, slide 1/2 of split on table out of way, place other 1/2 on ram, split, split again. Grab other 1/2, split, split again. Repeat process. A 24 inch slab of Ash is gone in less than 40 seconds. I have gotten to the point where I can hang on to larger pieces, turning them slightly while operating the ram - more or less slicing "Splits" off - one right after the other. So if I can get 4 or 5 pieces off of 1/2 slab and it takes less than 3 seconds for a stroke/retract.....12 to 15 seconds to finish off 1/2 of that chunk. No way in heck can I come close to operating a hydraulic ram that fast. I have tested it on Y branched chunks and real knotty pieces of Chestnut, Walnut, Ash. If it stops, I retract and just hit it a 2d and if needed 3d time. I have never had to hit it 4 times. The machine is stable, doesn't vibrate, is loud for the motor is up high closer to your ears. The handles are great. It moves like a loaded contractor wheel borrow. Feels just as heavy when moving it around. I wouldn't have one after owning one with the table and handles. It is too convenient and may I say necessary for fast splitting. Let alone moving around. I couldn't imagine moving this thing without the handles. You are talking about close to 500 pounds. One xtra item. When using the hydraulic splitter, did you ever find yourself leaning over and placing you hand somewhere on the splitter as you waited for the cycle to complete. I have. By doing so I used my inside thigh to keep pressure on the Hydro handle to keep the ram moving. Back was always just short of kinking up when using the hydro splitter. I'm 6 ft tall. Well this hasn't been an issue on the Rapid Fire. Stand Tall while using the ram. No bending over "while in use" issues. Only when to pick a chunk up off the ground. There is an issue with larger chunks. I mean the 30 or more inch ones. I am pretty strong but I am not picking those up off the ground. Now I have to use Maul and Wedges first to get it to "Pick me Up Size". I am also looking into build a small welders type table to place next to the Rapid Fire Table. I believe this might facilitate the splitting by giving me a completely different spot to place 1/2 splits, especially the larger ones, where I don't have to worry about them being pushed off the Rapid Fire Table by just split "rammed" pieces. Happiness factor 9.5 out of 10. Wow factor on time saving 9.9 out of 10. Durability factor - that is why I bought it now! For the THREE YEAR FREE WARRANTY.


----------



## D&B Mack

Still waiting on mine, been two weeks. :msp_razz:


----------



## Gamedic

There is a DR Rapidfire video on youtube. It's not a video from the company, but an actual owner. Sorry I don't know how to post it and am really busy right now. So no time to learn. It's under DR rapidfire log splitter. Maybe someone else can post it. The owner is splitting a large stringy piece of elm and it looks to do a pretty good job.


----------



## D&B Mack

Gamedic said:


> There is a DR Rapidfire video on youtube. It's not a video from the company, but an actual owner. Sorry I don't know how to post it and am really busy right now. So no time to learn. It's under DR rapidfire log splitter. Maybe someone else can post it. The owner is splitting a large stringy piece of elm and it looks to do a pretty good job.


 
Yeah, a member here.

[video=youtube_share;iFiPurAkeso]http://youtu.be/iFiPurAkeso[/video]

[video=youtube_share;YTXnqz78KzA]http://youtu.be/YTXnqz78KzA[/video]


----------



## D&B Mack

*Finally Arrived!!!*


----------



## dave_dj1

Glad to hear, now let's see it in use


----------



## nysparkie

*Great and now lets see video*



D&B Mack said:


>


 
Did you get the splitting Table with handles? My opinion: You will want/need it. Invaluable to jockey the whole thing around and speed up the splitting process. Mine is working like a Cheetah. I can split 3 cords of Ash in as little as 75 minutes. That is at least 75 minutes faster than with
a Hydraulic Splitter, mine anyways. I'll try, with smart phone, to get some video up here showing how I just roll a chunk and just keep whacking on the edge. Taking a 4 or 5 inch split off each ram stroke. It makes for a very quick split movement. Did you get the special price? The Special One year hands on use/return if not satisfied? 3 year extended warranty? You may have paid more but I believe the xtra is worth it for the one year use and 3 year warranty. Lets see Super Split or Speeco match that warranty? I have other DR Equipment and their Tech support is excellent. I am cleaning up and painting my 27 Ton Troy Bilt and the "FOR SALE" sign is going on it. For those larger stumps I'll just split it with maul and wedges so I can lift. Hi Ho, Hi Ho, its off to work I go.


----------



## D&B Mack

nysparkie said:


> Did you get the splitting Table with handles? My opinion: You will want/need it. Invaluable to jockey the whole thing around and speed up the splitting process. Mine is working like a Cheetah. I can split 3 cords of Ash in as little as 75 minutes. That is at least 75 minutes faster than with
> a Hydraulic Splitter, mine anyways. I'll try, with smart phone, to get some video up here showing how I just roll a chunk and just keep whacking on the edge. Taking a 4 or 5 inch split off each ram stroke. It makes for a very quick split movement. Did you get the special price? The Special One year hands on use/return if not satisfied? 3 year extended warranty? You may have paid more but I believe the xtra is worth it for the one year use and 3 year warranty. Lets see Super Split or Speeco match that warranty? I have other DR Equipment and their Tech support is excellent. I am cleaning up and painting my 27 Ton Troy Bilt and the "FOR SALE" sign is going on it. For those larger stumps I'll just split it with maul and wedges so I can lift. Hi Ho, Hi Ho, its off to work I go.


 
Got the table, electric start and maintenance meter. Got the 3 year warranty.


----------



## nysparkie

D&B Mack said:


> Got the table, electric start and maintenance meter. Got the 3 year warranty.


OUTSTANDING AND THE ELECTRIC START...now i am jealous....:msp_smile:


----------



## Dozer Man

*This bus is heavy...lol*

For curiousity's sake, when a rapidfire breaks down, where do you take it to get fixed. And also, I've gone all over the dr webpage and I can't find any commitment as to whether there products are 100% made in the USA. I know when I talked to paul at SS he said when he decided not to help dr to build/commercialize there product, that he couldn't stop dr from "buying" two brand new machines. At which they did and proceeded to reverse engineer(copy) it. Paul also questioned there vendors for there manufactured hard parts(pinion,rack,flywheels,etc...). He knew they weren't using the same vendors that he used. After looking through dr's website, seeing nothing about made in usa, I questioned where there parts are made also. 

DR offered me no discounts, although they did point out that I didn't have to pay sales tax, and there shipping quote was $100 more than SS. I still saved $1000 compared to the dr and $1300 compared to the SS. Even if I had the extra grand, I would have shelled out another $300 to get the original SS, not the copy. But that's the problem, I didn't have that extra $1k, so I went with the SpeedPro from my local TSC store. My only other option was a hydraulic unit. Kinetic vs. Hydraulic??? No brainer there. And not to mention it has to be towable to me (fabbing would've been required on ss or the dr). No issues whatsoever so far with my speedpro either. Yes, I'm concerned with quality issues, but isn't everyone with everything they purchase?? I would have the same concerns with the DR. 

Sorry all for the rant, I went through the dilemma of deciding which kinetic splitter to buy a couple months ago, and these were just some of the things I based my decision on. To each there own! I honestly wish you all good luck with your rapidfire splitters. I never wish ill will on anyone. I wonder how many they've sold so far??

Hmmm, this bus that I've been thrown under aint so heavy after all !!!


----------



## nysparkie

Dozer Man said:


> For curiousity's sake, when a rapidfire breaks down, where do you take it to get fixed. And also, I've gone all over the dr webpage and I can't find any commitment as to whether there products are 100% made in the USA. I know when I talked to paul at SS he said when he decided not to help dr to build/commercialize there product, that he couldn't stop dr from "buying" two brand new machines. At which they did and proceeded to reverse engineer(copy) it. Paul also questioned there vendors for there manufactured hard parts(pinion,rack,flywheels,etc...). He knew they weren't using the same vendors that he used. After looking through dr's website, seeing nothing about made in usa, I questioned where there parts are made also.
> 
> DR offered no discounts, although they did point out that I didn't have to pay sales tax, and there shipping quote was $100 more than SS. I still saved $1000 compared to the dr and $1300 compared to the SS. Even if I had the extra grand, I would have shelled out another $300 to get the original SS, not the copy. But that's the problem, I didn't have that extra $1k, so I went with the SpeedPro from my local TSC store. My only other option was a hydraulic unit. Kinetic vs. Hydraulic??? No brainer there. And not to mention it has to be towable to me (fabbing would've been required on ss or the dr). No issues whatsoever so far with my speedpro either. Yes, I'm concerned with quality issues, but isn't everyone with everything they purchase?? I would have the same concerns with the DR.
> 
> Sorry all for the rant, I went through the dilemma of deciding which kinetic splitter to buy a couple months ago, and these were just some of the things I based my decision on. To each there own! I honestly wish you all good luck with your rapidfire splitters. I never wish ill will on anyone. I wonder how many they've sold so far??
> 
> Hmmm, this bus that I've been thrown under aint so heavy after all !!!


From Visitor DR POWER:
"Hope you don't mind me jumping in - I'm Michael, the Product Manager for the new Rapid Splitter product line from DR.

Thought I could answer a couple of the questions raised. First thing I'd like to point out is that we actually manufacture most every product we sell under the DR brand right here in our factory in Vermont. The final assembly line for the new Rapid-Fire is actually being tuned up right now, and with a few exceptions most of the components are US made (one notable exception is the superb Subaru engines)

While the product was definitely inspired by the amazing Super-Split,"
Also from DR POWER: As for the price and quality of DR products I'd like to think our reputation speaks for itself. Over 25 years we've serviced almost 1 million customers, and our owner satisfaction surveys report that on average 95% of customers tell us they would recommend their DR to a family member or friend (and they do!), which we think is the ultimate test. Do they cost more than the average box store product? You bet. But it's not because of our advertising -- we actually spend less on advertising than the discount we need to give to retailers when we sell our products to them wholesale. The reason (FOR THE HIGHER PRICE) is because we build them to last, and because we'll stand behind them to the end. We have DR Trimmer Mower customers like zogger who have machines from 20+ years ago that can still call us toll free to order spare parts or receive knowledgeable tech support. We know not everyone BUYS EQUIPMENT TO LAST A LIFETIME BUT WE SLEEP BETTER KNOWING THAT OUR EQUIPMENT STAYS OUT IN THE FIELD AND NOT IN THE REPAIR SHOP.
From Another DR POWER POST: 
Dr commercial warranty

Thanks for welcoming me!

This is a commercial machine and we're offering a full 2 year warranty. We also have our 1 year "Hands On Trial" -- buy a Rapid Fire and if it doesn't meet all of your expectations than We'll take it back for a full refund (less return shipping). 

Another one answer a question from SUNFISH: You're right the DR is pretty darn close in design to the SS (we've made some improvements including more HP and others already discussed) -- but we took the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach. Paul, and his father before him, build an awesome machine and it's design has proven extremely durable. Why change that?

What we've set out to do is make these machines more broadly available, at a reasonable Price and backed-up by exceptional customer service. 
One more please: 
There have been a lot of good questions about the DR Rapid Fire. Let me answer some of them directly:

Why the log stabilizers? Two reasons: #1 it’s a voluntary industry standard that all logs must be “self stabilizing” on the splitting beam. #2 In a head-to-head comparison our testers preferred to use the machine with the stabilizing bars.

Does the DR auto-cycle? The cam assembly on the DR is spring loaded. Once your hand is removed from the lever it automatically retracts to the neutral position – about 1 second into the splitting cycle! This is also an industry standard that requires the activating lever travel in the same direction as the RAM.

Is it a 1-Year or 6-Month Hands on Trial? We’re so confident in the DR Rapid Fire that if your not 100% satisfied then we’ll take it back – no questions asked – anytime in the first full year that you own the machine (less return shipping).

Does the DR have a clutch? Yes, we use a Noram centrifugal clutch.

Why does the DR only have bearings on 1 side when the Super Split has them on both sides? The DR and Super Split have 2 bearings, 1 on each side of the beam.

More generally, I’d like to acknowledge that the Super Split is an exceptionally well-built machine and I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it to anyone. At the same time, we’re proud of the machine we’ve built here in Vermont. Enough so that we’re offering a free extended warranty – A FULL 3-YEARS – even in commercial use! 
I own and use other DR Power Products. I have always been extremely pleased. Their Customer Service doesn't have to take a back seat to anyone. Parts you need a delivered quickly. They have a network of Dealer Authorized Repair Centers where you can have your machine fixed. Kinetic Splitters are so simple you probably can do almost everything yourself.
I have read that the FlyWheels are from China but as far as I can find out that is all. Except the Subuaru Engine.


----------



## KiwiBro

nysparkie said:


> I have read that the FlyWheels are from China but as far as I can find out that is all.


Has anyone expressed an issue with excessive shaking resulting from poorly balanced flywheels? I ask because it's a PITA for quite a few SpeedPro owners. It may just be SP have sold way more than DR, but it might also be b/c DR QC better than SP before delivering to the customer.


----------



## Reeds

Sorry I didn't read all of these threads so this might have been asked. correct me if I an wrong but didn't wood wolf come out with the rack & pinion spliter first? I seen a old pitcher of one I thought it was a wood wolf.

now here is a little more on dr. I have the paper hear!
Intell nov 30 if you order a dr you will get it for 2295 or 2459 with elect. start. 3 year warranty & a 1 year hands on trial warranty. If you don't like it in a year send it back. 

A warranty like that is heard to beat! Just my 2 cents!


----------



## sunfish

Reeds said:


> Sorry I didn't read all of these threads so this might have been asked. correct me if I an wrong but didn't wood wolf come out with the rack & pinion spliter first? I seen a old pitcher of one I thought it was a wood wolf.



Super Split was first. Wood Wolf copied it...


----------



## Dozer Man

KiwiBro said:


> Has anyone expressed an issue with excessive shaking resulting from poorly balanced flywheels? I ask because it's a PITA for quite a few SpeedPro owners. It may just be SP have sold way more than DR, but it might also be b/c DR QC better than SP before delivering to the customer.



That is one of the issues I had with TSC. If I hadn't bought the demo speedpro, which I got to bring rounds and try out, and which I could see had no vibration issues, I still wonder if they would have fired up the "brand new" unit upon purchase. All the machines you see sitting outside the tsc stores have never had oil or gas put in them, let alone been started. QC from some point would have to go partially with tsc to at least make sure there are no problems upon initial startup. Imho anyways. 

I wonder if DR starts there machines and tests them before they ship?? It is possible. I'm not knocking the DR in any way shape or form and I'd bet they have very good qc...and thanks nysparkie, for confirming my concerns about there parts origins too. But with the grand I saved, I could have bought a vert/horiz hydro unit too...I just wish I had an extra grand!!


----------



## D&B Mack

*Here is my first hour*







May not seem like much, but look at how small i split them. :msp_wink:


----------



## D&B Mack

Got the first 5 hours on the meter this weekend.

(this is the first inertia splitter I have operated for any considerable length of time)

Observations so far:

--> Very well built, good quality steel and welds. Very little plastic (some on motor only)

--> Table is a must.

--> Wear a cup if you are at the "right" height. :msp_wink:

--> At full throttle, tank of gas lasted about 4.5 hours.

--> Electric start works nice, started right up even in the morning cold.

--> I ran the speeco at the demo at TSC. Speeco is noticeably faster, but not sure if this really means much in production seeing the machine can work faster than I can anyway.

--> Very little vibration, no shaking.

--> Maintenance meter works well and simple to use.

--> Oil changes are a PITA. There is no drain plug, and it would be difficult to flip over. Will need to siphon.

--> Knotty pieces have to be hit two or three times.

--> Subaru motor is relatively quiet.

--> The small little wedge cradles (as previously pointed out in this thread) are nice. I would rather have them than not. They are low enough to allow sliding of the split rounds for the next cycle, but not too high to interfere with lining the next piece up.

--> The ram adjustment bolts need to be adjusted after the first two hours. I am assuming this is probably just from breaking in. Re-adjusted and they have stayed tight so far.

--> Needed to grease the rack and pinion, came dry from the factory. (This was not pointed out in the manual)

--> Speaking of manual, got four. One for the motor, one for the splitter, one for the table and one for the maintenace meter. All are very clear and very well written and illustrated.

--> After running this one-handed. Would not want the two hand operation of speeco. If I purchased that unit, would definitely have to convert. The one-handed operation makes 50% of the speed of the operation.

--> Pretty heavy unit, easier to push than to pull with the handles. There are a few unused bracket locations on the rear of the machine. Think I will be looking at fabricating a handle in the rear to pull from the pile. It takes about 15-20 minutes to completely bury the front of the machine.

--> Rounds 24"+ will have to be split twice on the first run. Split once, flip back over and split the other side.

This is all I can think of for right now. I will update at 25 hours. I will also try to get a video up asap, but never posted a vid online yet so, we'll see. :msp_w00t:


----------



## CampHamp

*Recommended Cover for DR Rapid Fire*

DR doesn't sell a cover for this machine yet, so I was using a tarp. It didn't look great and wasn't so easy to put on.

I ordered a outdoor "chaise lounge" cover from Restoration Hardware (on sale for $20, delivered!) that happens, luckily, to fit the RapidFire perfectly with the table. It is like it was made for it.

It looks pretty sharp (better than the photo - the "mocha" one I got, has a contrasting stripe on the edging and vented mesh screen just above the tires in the rear) and since it fits so well, is easy on/off.

You want the small size, which is the only one left in stock anyway...

Chaise Lounge Cover | Furniture Care | Restoration Hardware


----------



## D&B Mack

CampHamp said:


> DR doesn't sell a cover for this machine yet, so I was using a tarp. It didn't look great and wasn't so easy to put on.
> 
> I ordered a outdoor "chaise lounge" cover from Restoration Hardware (on sale for $20, delivered!) that happens, luckily, to fit the RapidFire perfectly with the table. It is like it was made for it.
> 
> It looks pretty sharp (better than the photo - the "mocha" one I got, has a contrasting stripe on the edging and vented mesh screen just above the tires in the rear) and since it fits so well, is easy on/off.
> 
> You want the small size, which is the only one left in stock anyway...
> 
> Chaise Lounge Cover | Furniture Care | Restoration Hardware



Just make sure for anyone with the electric start, don't leave it outside in the cold. Those Gel Cell batteries do not do well in freezing temperatures. :yoyo:


----------



## CampHamp

Just noticed that DR has re-enacted their 1-year trial and 3-yr warranty offer. If you live near one of their factory stores (they have 3 North East locations) then you can even save on shipping.


----------



## trickytryaler

*DR RapidFire -- Fantastic splitter!!*

Ordered this splitter on a Monday afternoon and the truck line called me on Thursday that it was available for pick up.

Have split several cords with this splitter and I am very well pleased. I heard about the TSC one after I had ordered this DR RapidFire and thought maybe I had made a mistake. But after receiving this machine and then getting a look at the TSC chinese one, the DR is so much better quality , I am so glad I bought it. Little Subaru engine starts and runs great and has a pull start back up to the electric. I would suggest buying the log tray with the machine -- it works so well I can't see using this splitter without it.


----------



## nysparkie

*Agree Agree Agree*



D&B Mack said:


> Got the first 5 hours on the meter this weekend.
> 
> (this is the first inertia splitter I have operated for any considerable length of time)
> 
> Observations so far:
> 
> --> Very well built, good quality steel and welds. Very little plastic (some on motor only)
> 
> --> Table is a must.
> 
> --> Wear a cup if you are at the "right" height. :msp_wink:
> 
> --> At full throttle, tank of gas lasted about 4.5 hours.
> 
> --> Electric start works nice, started right up even in the morning cold.
> 
> --> I ran the speeco at the demo at TSC. Speeco is noticeably faster, but not sure if this really means much in production seeing the machine can work faster than I can anyway.
> 
> --> Very little vibration, no shaking.
> 
> --> Maintenance meter works well and simple to use.
> 
> --> Oil changes are a PITA. There is no drain plug, and it would be difficult to flip over. Will need to siphon.
> 
> --> Knotty pieces have to be hit two or three times.
> 
> --> Subaru motor is relatively quiet.
> 
> --> The small little wedge cradles (as previously pointed out in this thread) are nice. I would rather have them than not. They are low enough to allow sliding of the split rounds for the next cycle, but not too high to interfere with lining the next piece up.
> 
> --> The ram adjustment bolts need to be adjusted after the first two hours. I am assuming this is probably just from breaking in. Re-adjusted and they have stayed tight so far.
> 
> --> Needed to grease the rack and pinion, came dry from the factory. (This was not pointed out in the manual)
> 
> --> Speaking of manual, got four. One for the motor, one for the splitter, one for the table and one for the maintenace meter. All are very clear and very well written and illustrated.
> 
> --> After running this one-handed. Would not want the two hand operation of speeco. If I purchased that unit, would definitely have to convert. The one-handed operation makes 50% of the speed of the operation.
> 
> --> Pretty heavy unit, easier to push than to pull with the handles. There are a few unused bracket locations on the rear of the machine. Think I will be looking at fabricating a handle in the rear to pull from the pile. It takes about 15-20 minutes to completely bury the front of the machine.
> 
> --> Rounds 24"+ will have to be split twice on the first run. Split once, flip back over and split the other side.
> 
> This is all I can think of for right now. I will update at 25 hours. I will also try to get a video up asap, but never posted a vid online yet so, we'll see. :msp_w00t:



I agree with most everything you posted. As you set your own up, I didn't and did not have the issue with the non-grease rack item. I have started to use my converted F-100 trailer to collect everything falling off the table. I never push away a thing anymore. Just keep on splitting and let the next split push everything forward. I set up prior by stacking two or three cords of chuncked stuff right behind me - no more than 5 steps for the farthest. I have a three foot steel table to my side I put the large 1/2 first split piece on until I get back to that one. Once the trailer is full, Mama or one of the kids haul it to a pile and unload and come back clean up in front of the splitter. Back it up to the table again all the while I just keep on going. No Bull. I have it down to three cords in 70 minutes. Of course that does not include set up time. But once you get going....you can actually fly.
I also have had to hit some larger knotty ash more than once, twice. Had the ram get stuck a couple of times due to small split garbage being wedged between the ram and the frame. I have a 27 Ton Troy Bilt Hydro and I can see it will have to be painted up and have a FOR SALE SIGN on it real soon. I can not tell you how happy I've been so far. My back isn't tightened up at the end of session of splitting. I am not walking around the front to pick up that 1/2 that falls the wrong way as on the Hydro. I am not leaning over holding on to the ram stop while my thigh is pushing the hydro ram forward handle because my back is stiff. Best of all I can work for 4 hours straight and have as much wood split as two 8 hour days. Simply amazing.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## nysparkie

*Cover?*



D&B Mack said:


> Just make sure for anyone with the electric start, don't leave it outside in the cold. Those Gel Cell batteries do not do well in freezing temperatures. :yoyo:



I'd like to get that chaise lounge cover thing you bought. Can you give me the dimensions or stock number? Please. thanks


----------



## nysparkie

D&B Mack said:


> May not seem like much, but look at how small i split them. :msp_wink:


Come on!! You can split twice that with some help. Go GO GOOOOOO!


----------



## nysparkie

*SPEECO Problems*

I was over reading some posts on the Speeco Rack and Pinion Thread.
I am sooooo happy I bought the DR RapidFire even with the ~$500 cost increase. I think the avg. price for the Speedco is $1800.00.
They are having issues with steel that hasn't been or was cheaply hardened. Speedco is working on the problem but that will take time engineering the heat process on whatever steel they use. DOWN TIME... If you sell firewood for living, that ain't good. With some of the best Customer Support and Tech Support I have been privy to. I don't think you could go wrong buying a RapidFire now at these prices with the warranty and time use add ons they are giving you. I hope those guys on that other thread are a happy with what the Chinese have given them? I wish no ill luck towards anybody, but the old adage of "You get what you pay for" seems appropriate here.
Just saying...uttahere2:


----------



## nysparkie

*Shaking*



KiwiBro said:


> Has anyone expressed an issue with excessive shaking resulting from poorly balanced flywheels? I ask because it's a PITA for quite a few SpeedPro owners. It may just be SP have sold way more than DR, but it might also be b/c DR QC better than SP before delivering to the customer.


I've had mine for month now. No shaking other than the ram moving forward and back. The engine vibrating. Other wise very still.


----------



## D&B Mack

nysparkie said:


> I'd like to get that chaise lounge cover thing you bought. Can you give me the dimensions or stock number? Please. thanks



I don't have it, someone else recommended it.

Here is the link:

Chaise Lounge Cover | Furniture Care | Restoration Hardware


----------



## D&B Mack

nysparkie said:


> Come on!! You can split twice that with some help. Go GO GOOOOOO!



I agree! That was my very first hour on it. Once you get the technique down, it is easy to double that.

After this weekend, it will leave my house and actually be going to work, we'll see what it can do then. Maybe even pull the conveyor off the timberwolf for a little while and see what one guy can do when not getting clogged up on the other end. However, it won't be doing any large stuff at that point; mostly 12" and smaller.


----------



## D&B Mack

nysparkie said:


> I've had mine for month now. No shaking other than the ram moving forward and back. The engine vibrating. Other wise very still.



:agree2:

Nothing other than motor vibes and the slamming of the ram (which can move it around a good bit). Flywheels seem to be perfectly balanced.


----------



## nysparkie

D&B Mack said:


> I don't have it, someone else recommended it.
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> Chaise Lounge Cover | Furniture Care | Restoration Hardware



Thanks DB!


----------



## D&B Mack

*Unused Brackets*

Look at the bottom and where the horizontal meets vertical. These are the two empty "brackets" I think I can make a rear handle attach to.


----------



## D&B Mack

*Two discussion items for DR*

There are two spots that I noticed something in:

First one, wood gets built up in the notch between the table and beam. After about 4 hours or so, there is enough it actually works its way back towards the ram. Sometimes it catches the ram at the end and makes it stick.






The second, wood fragments get retracted back into the return area of the ram. Sometimes this does not allow the ram to fully retract.






Both minor I know, just wanted to see if anyone else is coming up with the same thing.


----------



## D&B Mack

*Electric Start Set-up*


----------



## nysparkie

*Yes - Pieces here and there.*



D&B Mack said:


> There are two spots that I noticed something in:
> 
> First one, wood gets built up in the notch between the table and beam. After about 4 hours or so, there is enough it actually works its way back towards the ram. Sometimes it catches the ram at the end and makes it stick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second, wood fragments get retracted back into the return area of the ram. Sometimes this does not allow the ram to fully retract.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both minor I know, just wanted to see if anyone else is coming up with the same thing.



I've had a piece of bark or splinter of wood stop the ram from fully returning wedging itself underneath the ram head. I also notice the build up of chips/stuff under the wedge.
Now I , now and then, just take time to sweep some of it away between logs...every 20? Or when I notice.
Haven't had an issue since. Still beats the broken teeth and soft steel problem they are attempting to correct on the Speedco TSC Splitter.


----------



## nysparkie

*Lucky Dog*



D&B Mack said:


> :agree2:
> 
> Nothing other than motor vibes and the slamming of the ram (which can move it around a good bit). Flywheels seem to be perfectly balanced.



I was admiring your electric start. Not that the pull start is hard by any means. Don't know if my wife can start it though.
I heard if it is a GEL Battery you have to be careful with freezing temps. Myself, I don't know if that is true or not.
I'm still a happy, glad I paid for it, DR RapidFire Splitter owner.


----------



## mikereynolds

I have been wanting a flywheel-type splitter for several years now and after reading the Speeco thread I DO NOT want made in china problems. I also considered the Logrite version using Paul's SS and a very cool highway trailer and even cooler capsian winch contraption. That is the one I really wanted but at a shade under $10,000 and another $900 to ship to the left coast, it was more than I could write a check for. So it was between the SS and the DR. After reading all 18 pages of this thread, and I finally pulled the trigger on the DR yesterday. What put the DR in the winners' circle was the 3-year warranty, 1-year trial period and how well they regarded the SS. I didn't order the table as I will be building a very large perminent work station similar to the Logrite unit where I can shuttle a log onto the table with the Bobcat, buck it without bending, split the rounds into firewood then onto a conveyor and into the dump truck. I only want to handel it once and gedd'er done fast so I can get back to this laptop in front of my wood stove and see what you-alls is up to next! Downside...15 working days till the big truck gets here!


----------



## KiwiBro

*The DR rack head stops*

Are the stops metal or rubber? Is there any 'bounce' when the rack head hits the stops? If there is, does this bounce then make it easier to engage the rack and pinion for the next split if you get your timing right (b/c the rack is slightly moving in the right direction helping it to mesh better with the pinion)? Granted, you'd have to be quick moving the wood into position but I was just wondering if that would help take some load off the rack/pinion teeth and engagement rod.

How many bearings are there under the top flange of the beam to keep the rack head running smooth and true? The SS has two each side. I asked DR about this earlier in the thread and didn't really understand their answer.

Have you guys had any problems sliding re-splits back over the cradel without actually lifting them or do you struggle with the bigger re-splits and/or actually have to lift 'em back into position? I ask b/c that could get tiring by the end of a long day of bigish wood, surely?

That 1 year right of return is cool.


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> Are the stops metal or rubber?



Rubber



> Is there any 'bounce' when the rack head hits the stops?



Yes



> If there is, does this bounce then make it easier to engage the rack and pinion for the next split if you get your timing right (b/c the rack is slightly moving in the right direction helping it to mesh better with the pinion)? Granted, you'd have to be quick moving the wood into position but I was just wondering if that would help take some load off the rack/pinion teeth and engagement rod.



Yes, unless you are "off" on your timing, then it is harder. Really only bounces one time usually, so you have to be real quick on the re-engagement.



> How many bearings are there under the top flange of the beam to keep the rack head running smooth and true? The SS has two each side. I asked DR about this earlier in the thread and didn't really understand their answer.



If I know what you are asking, there is one. At the rear of the ram, there is one mounted to a spring to keep the ram "floating". I assume this is to limit wear on the plate for returns. Once under load, the ram slides on the wear plate. I will look again for you though and try to get any pics I can. Here is an image from DR's website. Let me know if this is what you are talking about. If you go to their page, it is larger and clearer.








> Have you guys had any problems sliding re-splits back over the cradel without actually lifting them or do you struggle with the bigger re-splits and/or actually have to lift 'em back into position? I ask b/c that could get tiring by the end of a long day of bigish wood, surely?



No, actually it is nice. Small enough (and angled) to slide back over, but large enough to keep rounds from rolling off.


----------



## nysparkie

*Bounce*

As far as Bounce. No issues at all. I don't even notice my hands and eyes are working so fast on the serious end.
Cradle. It is so little it hasn't hurt the process. Sometimes yes, you have to work, roll or use two hands to get
the chunck over the "rails". I suppose if they were that much of a bother to a owner he could just remove them.
I find it helps with the centering and holding full rounds from moving off the table if I turn to talk or stop for someother
task.
Yesterday I went out at the Buffalo Bills - NY Jets game 1/2 time. I split until it was fairly dark. Did not time myself
but did split this pile. Maybe 2:30/2:45Pm??? until 5:15/PM??? 3+ face splite ready for stacking.
View attachment 208933





D&B Mack said:


> Rubber
> 
> 
> 
> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, unless you are "off" on your timing, then it is harder. Really only bounces one time usually, so you have to be real quick on the re-engagement.
> 
> 
> 
> If I know what you are asking, there is one. At the rear of the ram, there is one mounted to a spring to keep the ram "floating". I assume this is to limit wear on the plate for returns. Once under load, the ram slides on the wear plate. I will look again for you though and try to get any pics I can. Here is an image from DR's website. Let me know if this is what you are talking about. If you go to their page, it is larger and clearer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, actually it is nice. Small enough (and angled) to slide back over, but large enough to keep rounds from rolling off.


----------



## KiwiBro

*Thanks guys.*

The bearings I'm referring to are those under the top flange of the beam that hold the rack head to the beam. Is there one or two per side? Thanks.


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> The bearings I'm referring to are those under the top flange of the beam that hold the rack head to the beam. Is there one or two per side? Thanks.



Can you define what you mean by rack head? At the front, near the ram, there is only the one bearing on the spring as previously stated. Are you talking about the back end of the rack?


----------



## KiwiBro

D&B Mack said:


> Can you define what you mean by rack head? At the front, near the ram, there is only the one bearing on the spring as previously stated. Are you talking about the back end of the rack?



Put it this way; you've got the spring loaded bearing at the rack head rolling along the top flange of the beam. What's on the underside of the top flange that holds the rack head to the beam?


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> Put it this way; you've got the spring loaded bearing at the rack head rolling along the top flange of the beam. What's on the underside of the top flange that holds the rack head to the beam?



Just metal to metal. The spring loaded bearing keeps it "floating" when not under load. Under the ram, there is a wear plate which pretty much only contacts under load. There is little to no friction when not under load.


----------



## KiwiBro

Sorry, I can't be explaining myself properly. I found an image online:





The SS has two bearings. DR are said to have copied SS. What do people think about this difference? DR don't think two each side are needed. I'm all for fewer components on anything when it doesn't sacrifice performance or durability. Why have two each side if only one is needed? With only one each side is the rack head going to pivot a little on return and unecessarily hasten the wear on the front of the brass bearing plate?

View attachment 209519


----------



## sunfish

KiwiBro said:


> Sorry, I can't be explaining myself properly. I found an image online:
> 
> 
> The SS has two bearings. DR are said to have copied SS. What do people think about this difference? DR don't think two each side are needed. I'm all for fewer components on anything when it doesn't sacrifice performance or durability. Why have two each side if only one is needed? With only one each side is the rack head going to pivot a little on return and unecessarily hasten the wear on the front of the brass bearing plate?



The standard J model SS has only one bearing on each side, while the HD model has two per side. I have the J with only one bearing and have had no issues. I actually don't see why two would be better. Also, Paul at SS told me one bearing works just fine and so far he's right.


----------



## KiwiBro

sunfish said:


> The standard J model SS has only one bearing on each side, while the HD model has two per side. I have the J with only one bearing and have had no issues. I actually don't see why two would be better. Also, Paul at SS told me one bearing works just fine and so far he's right.


Thanks for that. Have you ever had the brass bearing plate off and if so was there any pattern to the wearing? Any front wear bias? Call me simple but if one's all that's needed then two's one too many in my book.

Come to think of it, how long do those brass wear plates actually last? 1000 cord or more?


----------



## nysparkie

*Brass lasting*



KiwiBro said:


> Thanks for that. Have you ever had the brass bearing plate off and if so was there any pattern to the wearing? Any front wear bias? Call me simple but if one's all that's needed then two's one too many in my book.
> 
> Come to think of it, how long do those brass wear plates actually last? 1000 cord or more?



I don't know but on a DR Website video they have a pro firewood processor stating: He doesn't own a hydraulic splitter anymore & His Rapid Fire's (Owns several) has split 7 to 8 thousand cords (Probably face cord) without replacing the rack and pinion. I would have to guess that the brass bearing plate would last for several thousand cord as well. Just opinion for I have only split 30 face so far.


----------



## nysparkie

*TSC Speeco*

I don't wish any bad luck. We are all woodies here in some degree or another. I have been watching the Speedco Kinetic Splitter server and they are having issues with the hardening of the ram and some teeth on the engagement gear. I am feeling bad for em. A few have dissed me over there stating I was just gloating. A few stated it was a $$$ thing why they bought the China Made SpeedCo. That I can understand and sympathize with. If I had known TSC was selling a Kinetic Splitter one week earlier than I did find out, I may have purchased one. I had already bought the RapidFire by that time. I sit here putting my hand on my heart and say Whooooo, boy that was close. I guess there is a recall for the TSC machine until a fix can be engineered for the heat treatment of metal of some sort of redesign - whatever. They are into talking about what hand tools or cars you buy and what you get your money worth from. I thank my lucky stars I decided to raid my retirement account and put the 800.00 extra dollars on a RapdiFire(SO FAR). Not a hic-cup or a fart of a problem and it just keeps on whacking away. I am amazed at how little fuel it sucks to. My 27 Ton Troy-bilt with a 5HP Honda eats twice as much fuel as this 6HP Subaru. --- I just can't get over that no hitch thing and am still working on a solution. Oh Well 34 months to go on that free warranty. Hi Ho, Hi Ho off to work I go.


----------



## sunfish

KiwiBro said:


> Thanks for that. Have you ever had the brass bearing plate off and if so was there any pattern to the wearing? Any front wear bias? Call me simple but if one's all that's needed then two's one too many in my book.
> 
> Come to think of it, how long do those brass wear plates actually last? 1000 cord or more?



I've not had the brass plate or ram off mine. The brass plate does not make contact with the beam all the time, it floats above it, with around .030"+/- clearance. The spring/bearing assembly behind the ram head holds it up off the beam. I believe it'd take a few thousand cords before much wear is noticed. Then the only problem would be more clearance for wood slivers to get caught under it.


----------



## indiansprings

After getting and watching the DVD on the DR the only real issue I see is the poor turds who buy them on DR's credit plan. After your 6 month no interest period you revert to something like 24.99% interest on the unpaid balance.lol You either pay cash for them or they will wind up costing some poor soul 6 or 7 grand on the payment plan. It's legalized loan sharking.


----------



## nysparkie

*DR Credit*



indiansprings said:


> After getting and watching the DVD on the DR the only real issue I see is the poor turds who buy them on DR's credit plan. After your 6 month no interest period you revert to something like 24.99% interest on the unpaid balance.lol You either pay cash for them or they will wind up costing some poor soul 6 or 7 grand on the payment plan. It's legalized loan sharking.



Ya...except for Car Manufacture's, many companies are doing the same thing. I bought a new Star Stratoliner and was surprised that it had a fixed rate over the length of the loan...3.9% for 36 months. Of course if you miss a payment...KABOOM 27.5%.

Why would DR Homeproducts be any different:msp_mad: Everyone will smack the little guy around if it means more $$$ on the bottom line.


----------



## Dozer Man

Just some fyi...DR copied the "J" model, not the "HD" model of the SS. That's from Paul @ SS.


----------



## nysparkie

*J or HD Model*



Dozer Man said:


> Just some fyi...DR copied the "J" model, not the "HD" model of the SS. That's from Paul @ SS.



So, Bet you Paul stands by his J Models as much as his HD ones. IF RapidFire is copied after the "j", imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 
Nice to see ya Dozer. Really. Remember #2 !


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> Sorry, I can't be explaining myself properly. I found an image online:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The SS has two bearings. DR are said to have copied SS. What do people think about this difference? DR don't think two each side are needed. I'm all for fewer components on anything when it doesn't sacrifice performance or durability. Why have two each side if only one is needed? With only one each side is the rack head going to pivot a little on return and unecessarily hasten the wear on the front of the brass bearing plate?
> 
> View attachment 209519



I will have to double check my unit again, but I am pretty sure there is no bearing where you have that arrow. I believe that bolt only holds the return spring on each side.


----------



## sunfish

D&B Mack said:


> I will have to double check my unit again, but I am pretty sure there is no bearing where you have that arrow. I believe that bolt only holds the return spring on each side.



There is a bearing behind that bolt, that runs on the underside of the beam. 

Keeps the ram from flying off the beam. :msp_smile:


----------



## nysparkie

*Bearings*



D&B Mack said:


> I will have to double check my unit again, but I am pretty sure there is no bearing where you have that arrow. I believe that bolt only holds the return spring on each side.



For now I have split pretty much everything I need for a while. 30 Face +. For next year I will be starting again AS SOON AS THIS RAIN STOPS...PLEASE. So I hauled the thing, still don't like that no trailer hitch thing, into the garage. I will be removing the covers, blowing everything off and taking a look at the wear. As far as having two bearings on the ram shoe, as far as I am concerned the more the better. I know not all agree with that but as far as bearings, I like the idea of two instead of just one. Just an opinion and everyone has one.


----------



## D&B Mack

sunfish said:


> There is a bearing behind that bolt, that runs on the underside of the beam.
> 
> Keeps the ram from flying off the beam. :msp_smile:



You are correct. Looks like one bearing on each side. There is a plastic coating around the bearing, so I am assuming it is only one and not two back to back. Doesn't look like they are in contact too much though. About 30 hours on my machine and no sign of wear just yet.

BTW, anyone have an easier way to grease the rack? Greasing about every 2 - 3 hours with a putty knife or finger gets annoying. Would be nice to have a fitting installed, but not sure how to make that work.


----------



## nysparkie

*Grease*



D&B Mack said:


> You are correct. Looks like one bearing on each side. There is a plastic coating around the bearing, so I am assuming it is only one and not two back to back. Doesn't look like they are in contact too much though. About 30 hours on my machine and no sign of wear just yet.
> 
> BTW, anyone have an easier way to grease the rack? Greasing about every 2 - 3 hours with a putty knife or finger gets annoying. Would be nice to have a fitting installed, but not sure how to make that work.



I've just been using white grease in spray can. With the red needle nozzle on I can just bend it up to get it on the rack. Everytime I use the splitter, one quick pass and off to the races. Yes it isn't gear lube, then again I do it everytime I split. No issues at all so....so far.:smile2:


----------



## KiwiBro

*Is demand so high they can't carry stock?*

I will be shipping out a tractor from USA very soon and thought I would like a DR rapid fire splitter to go in it. They don't stock anything, they make it up to order and it's three weeks wait so the lady told me. There endeth my purchase, unfortunately.


----------



## mikereynolds

*Got mine today BUT WAIT it JAMS!!!!*

Just unpacked my new Rapifire and lubed it up and followed all the directions and set out to split some rounds....At firsr I cycled the motor to break it in and then I split many rounds and it is fast just like the videos BUT! I have had several rounds get stuck in the wedge and the ram gets wedged into the round and won't retract! This happened on 10 out of 100 rounds of wet pine. I noticedit only happened on wet pine I was splitting for next year. I had to use a BIG pry bar to unwedge the round and release the jamed ram so it would retract inorder to hit it again to complete the split. Dry wood was no problems even massive Eucaliptus split with ease but wet pine is trouble! On Monday I will call the smart guys at DR and hear what advise they have to say. Maybe the paint has to wear off the wedge? Anybody else have this problem?


----------



## aleman

I just got mine also and am having the same problem. I did the same with the crowbar, it seemed to work better the more I used it. Let me know if you get any help from the guys at DR.


----------



## nysparkie

*Jamming*



aleman said:


> I just got mine also and am having the same problem. I did the same with the crowbar, it seemed to work better the more I used it. Let me know if you get any help from the guys at DR.



I had this issue also. What I found is if after your first split if you keep the flat up/round down, it appears to minimize what can get jammed between the ram head and the table. (Less surface area??) I know this shouldn't be an issue at all and "balancing a round" half to quarter it sort of sucks but it helps keeping the straight sides of the flat away from the table and therefore minimizes jams. I still get one once in a while but it is on reall bad, large knotty stuff. The ram head just gets stuck in it then won't retract for a 2d whack. Clear that and whack it in the same spot and it may again get jammed so always turn it either to a new spot or turn the whole thing around and attack it right opposite where it first got stuck. All in all I've now split close to 30 face in way less time???maybe close to 1/2 the time with wayyyyy less gas than my 27 ton Troy Bilt. And the jamming is wayyyy far and few between. Once you get the idea of rolling your pieces around you will be flying through them pretty darn fast.


----------



## mikereynolds

*So it;s a learn her quirks thing*

Thanks for the advise! I'll give that a try and perhaps I just need to split a lot more to master the proper technique before I start complaining.


----------



## nysparkie

*Not a complaint "A Inquiry"*



mikereynolds said:


> Thanks for the advise! I'll give that a try and perhaps I just need to split a lot more to master the proper technique before I start complaining.


Naw that wasn't a complaint it was an inquiry about technique. Thats all.


----------



## mikereynolds

*One Week Old and 15 cord split Review*

Well I have split about 15 cord with it now and it works better than ever. I still get a jam every now and then but a good whack on the round (not splitter) with a 4-pound sledge usually knocks it loose but this happens less and less with more use and now rarely jams maybe once every two or three cord split (only happens with green pine). I have expermited with it and have yet to find a round it wouldn't split. Including knotted up twisted crap I would usually toss asside rather than waste time with my old splitters. It even split a 3' diameter Red Oak and 3' diameter Eucaliptus round!. Its not perfect though I think the push plate is too small and the table should be standard equipment. The Subaru motor runs and starts just fine and it uses a WHOLE LOT LESS fuell! It's easy to move around with the handles but they are a little cheesey and the fastners come loose quickly and get lost in the dirt I also think greasing the rack every 5 cord is a hassle. The edge of the table is the same height as my 1-cord delivery dump trailer which makes it easy to split the rounds and push the firewood right onto the trailer for stacking and delivery. The speed is definately there it will still split faster than I can feed it. The newness has not worn off yet I like it and the best part is it is way easier on my back than my other three splitters. I would buy it again without hesitation and reccomend it so far. I have heard complaints about no towing provisions...I can load it on my motorcycle trailer and take it anywhere no big deal to me! I'll post another update and review after 50 cord split next month.


----------



## aleman

Nice... My review would be exactly the same. ..


----------



## rwoods

Confession #1 I have not read all of the preceding 20 pages. Confession #2 I have never run a splitter. Confession #3 I have never seen a DR in action. FWIW, today at the wood ministry over lunch, everyone was all abuzz about a new splitter someone had brought today to help. I was told they were using 5 guys and a skid steer and could not keep up with this new machine. They were all amazed at the cycle time and its ability to split some big stuff. They were also running our usual 4 Huskee 35 tons, 1 Huskee 20 ton and several home-builts today each with two or three men crews so that will give you some idea of the comparison they were making. I was told the cycle time was 1/4 that of the Huskee 35 ton. After lunch, I checked it out - it was a DR. I was really surprised by how small it was after hearing all the comments at lunch. Now I guess I should go back and start reading this thread. Ron


----------



## mikereynolds

*it's kinda fun too*

I think I'm gonna go split a cord or two before church!


----------



## nysparkie

*Jamming*



mikereynolds said:


> Well I have split about 15 cord with it now and it works better than ever. I still get a jam every now and then but a good whack on the round (not splitter) with a 4-pound sledge usually knocks it loose but this happens less and less with more use and now rarely jams maybe once every two or three cord split (only happens with green pine). I have expermited with it and have yet to find a round it wouldn't split. Including knotted up twisted crap I would usually toss asside rather than waste time with my old splitters. It even split a 3' diameter Red Oak and 3' diameter Eucaliptus round!. Its not perfect though I think the push plate is too small and the table should be standard equipment. The Subaru motor runs and starts just fine and it uses a WHOLE LOT LESS fuell! It's easy to move around with the handles but they are a little cheesey and the fastners come loose quickly and get lost in the dirt I also think greasing the rack every 5 cord is a hassle. The edge of the table is the same height as my 1-cord delivery dump trailer which makes it easy to split the rounds and push the firewood right onto the trailer for stacking and delivery. The speed is definately there it will still split faster than I can feed it. The newness has not worn off yet I like it and the best part is it is way easier on my back than my other three splitters. I would buy it again without hesitation and reccomend it so far. I have heard complaints about no towing provisions...I can load it on my motorcycle trailer and take it anywhere no big deal to me! I'll post another update and review after 50 cord split next month.



Mike, glad to see you are flying through the timber. One question: Are those jams you are still having due to the wood just getting stuck on the wedge? Have you solved the jams due to chuncks getting between the ram and the table? I hardly have those anymore. Still get those Knot jams though. I don't split pine so I don't get as many as you. Those poor guys on the SPEEDCO site are having all sorts of issues with that CHINA built thing. I have cleaned up and painted up my Troy-bilt hydro 27 ton unit to sell on Craigs List. I don't want to have to bend over for hours again as long as I split wood. I'm 60 and don't need that crap anymore..Happy, Happy, Happy.:biggrin:


----------



## D&B Mack

*The Jam*

I had the same jam problem with my DR when I first got it. One thing I have found: keeping the ramp guide plates properly adjusted makes a big difference. Mine seems to stick because of the twisting of the round, keeping the guide plate tolerances tight has reduced this tremendously. When it does stick, a smack on the round with the butt end of a hatchet will free it. As previously stated though, technique is the key to keep moving. I got it down now to when the round begins to twist, I disengage and re-split. This allows the round to straighten itself out.

55 hours down so far, no other issues.


----------



## Dozer Man

*So far so good...*

Hey All, 

Sounds like everyone is very happy with there Rapidfire splitters so far. That's good to hear. I have to ask for a little help. I'm trying to get some comparison info. for the DR. Can anyone tell me the diameter of the _DRIVE PULLEY_ on there clutch. Outside diameter of the whole clutch is irrelevent, it's the actual drive pulley that the belt rides on that I'm looking for (which is welded onto or machined into the clutch housing itself). If by chance someone knows the O.D. of the flywheels, that might be helpful too, but not necessary. 

I've already talked to DR about buying the clutch, and I have the part# and price too ($75+shipping). But, the parts guys had no way of telling the drive pulley diameter without physically seeing it. Beings how they didn't have the clutch in stock and would have to order it(only 2 wks), I figured it would be easier and quicker to just ask you guys. 

Thanks in advance for your help !!!

Happy Splitting,

Dozer


----------



## DR POWER

Dozer Man said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Sounds like everyone is very happy with there Rapidfire splitters so far. That's good to hear. I have to ask for a little help. I'm trying to get some comparison info. for the DR. Can anyone tell me the diameter of the _DRIVE PULLEY_ on there clutch. Outside diameter of the whole clutch is irrelevent, it's the actual drive pulley that the belt rides on that I'm looking for (which is welded onto or machined into the clutch housing itself). If by chance someone knows the O.D. of the flywheels, that might be helpful too, but not necessary.
> 
> I've already talked to DR about buying the clutch, and I have the part# and price too ($75+shipping). But, the parts guys had no way of telling the drive pulley diameter without physically seeing it. Beings how they didn't have the clutch in stock and would have to order it(only 2 wks), I figured it would be easier and quicker to just ask you guys.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help !!!
> 
> Happy Splitting,
> 
> Dozer



Dozer, 

Here are the dimensions you are looking for:

Clutch is 1.75" 
flywheel is 18.25"

DR Power


----------



## Dozer Man

DR POWER said:


> Dozer,
> 
> Here are the dimensions you are looking for:
> 
> Clutch is 1.75"
> flywheel is 18.25"
> 
> DR Power




Not only am I impressed with the quick response, but also with whom the response came from!!

Thank You !!


----------



## Dozer Man

*Related question...*



DR POWER said:


> Dozer,
> 
> Here are the dimensions you are looking for:
> 
> Clutch is 1.75"
> flywheel is 18.25"
> 
> DR Power



DR Power,

By chance do you know if the 1.75" measurement comes from the outside diameter of the clutch? Or is that measured from where the inside belt runs at the bottom of the groove? 

Thanks,

Dozer


----------



## mikereynolds

nysparkie said:


> Mike, glad to see you are flying through the timber. One question: Are those jams you are still having due to the wood just getting stuck on the wedge? Have you solved the jams due to chuncks getting between the ram and the table? I hardly have those anymore. Still get those Knot jams though. I don't split pine so I don't get as many as you. Those poor guys on the SPEEDCO site are having all sorts of issues with that CHINA built thing. I have cleaned up and painted up my Troy-bilt hydro 27 ton unit to sell on Craigs List. I don't want to have to bend over for hours again as long as I split wood. I'm 60 and don't need that crap anymore..Happy, Happy, Happy.:biggrin:



Still having jams but fount a claw hammer frees the ram easier!


----------



## mikereynolds

*30 cord split update*

Well after 30 cord cut, one of the the belts fell off and I reinstalled them and adjusted the tension, I think there should be v grooves in the flywheel and don't understand why there is not! I also had another failure this time the where the ram returns, it hits a soft 5/15 bolt which bent over and needed replacing. Greasing the rack is a pain but it hauls banannas! My other hydraulic splitters are rarely being used as my guys would rather team up on the DR than use the old machines. I built a large bench (4' X 16") to cut logs and stack rounds adjacent to the splitter and have a conveyor placed at the output of the DR to help reduce handling time because the split firewood piles up fast and needs to get out of my way! All in all I am satisfied and would buy it again.


----------



## Steve NW WI

mikereynolds said:


> Well after 30 cord cut, one of the the belts fell off and I reinstalled them and adjusted the tension, I think there should be v grooves in the flywheel and don't understand why there is not!



Until a couple years ago, I had an old Monitor jack style well pump. It drove off the flat on the flywheel, no problems for many years (with the belt anyway, broken antique cast parts in the middle of winter made me go submersible finally). Just keep em fairly tight - not guitar string tight, but maybe 1/2" or so of deflection when you push on it, and it shouldn't be a problem. I suspect it was a cost saving over a more complicated casting form, or machining the grooves into it.


----------



## rwoods

Our wood ministry continues to be pleased with the production of the DR Rapid Fire. Unfortunately, the owner lost the end of his thumb just below the nail Saturday when he somehow accidentally cycled it while removing a stuck round. Just a reminder to be careful. Ron


----------



## nysparkie

*Belt Off*



mikereynolds said:


> Well after 30 cord cut, one of the the belts fell off and I reinstalled them and adjusted the tension, I think there should be v grooves in the flywheel and don't understand why there is not! I also had another failure this time the where the ram returns, it hits a soft 5/15 bolt which bent over and needed replacing. Greasing the rack is a pain but it hauls banannas! My other hydraulic splitters are rarely being used as my guys would rather team up on the DR than use the old machines. I built a large bench (4' X 16") to cut logs and stack rounds adjacent to the splitter and have a conveyor placed at the output of the DR to help reduce handling time because the split firewood piles up fast and needs to get out of my way! All in all I am satisfied and would buy it again.



Mike: I had one come off also. After about 20 cords. I blame us. New Belts will stretch and we should have been aware. I was so happy flying through the cords I never checked....my fault. Took 15 or 20 minutes to take covers off (How about those interior nuts in getting them off and on)
and to adjust the engine to tighten everything up. I snugged it up for no more than 1/2 inch play. Works fine. I say as long as the flywheels and the pulley are in line and at 90 degrees, the clutch grooves will keep the belts in place as long as the tension is sufficient. What is the word hydraulics mean? :msp_biggrin:


----------



## nysparkie

*Demensions*



Dozer Man said:


> DR Power,
> 
> By chance do you know if the 1.75" measurement comes from the outside diameter of the clutch? Or is that measured from where the inside belt runs at the bottom of the groove?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dozer, Did you get this measurement you wanted? If not explain what this measurement exactly is and I will put some calipers on it and give you the decimal equivalent.


----------



## mikereynolds

*40 cord update*

Well after 40 cord split I took the machine out of service today...It is showing wear. After several (way too many adjustments) the belts are wore out and the return spring broke. today and the guys were not happy to be back on "Ole' Reliable" I'll be calling DR tomorrow for a "Hail Mery" warranty parts order with "spares"...Let's see how long my macnine will be down! I'll probably have to find a spring that will work and hit the auto parts store for the belts...Not a happy camper when production gets shut down at the peak of the firewood season.

OK DR Power....I know you are reading this what do you think? I like the machine but I suggest better quality fasteners, V-Belts & return springs or perhaps packing some spare parts with new orders and V-Groves in the flywheels.


----------



## doubleh

*belts*

After reading about your belts coming off I decided to check mine this morning. Sure enough, we were at about 3/4" slack so we tightened things up. One of my guys mentioned the springs, wondering how long they would stay "springy." I'm thinking about calling DR and asking for a deal to buy replacements before I need them. Been running both my I & O hydro and the DR and it's painful having to wait for that hydro ram. Would hate to have to use it full time. And I know someone mentioned this in the other DR thread, but I do believe you have less chance of getting hurt with the DR because you are always paying attention; too easy to get distracted with hydro while you're waiting for the ram to extend or retract. No such down time with a flywheel splitter.


----------



## nysparkie

*Down Time*



mikereynolds said:


> Well after 40 cord split I took the machine out of service today...It is showing wear. After several (way too many adjustments) the belts are wore out and the return spring broke. today and the guys were not happy to be back on "Ole' Reliable" I'll be calling DR tomorrow for a "Hail Mery" warranty parts order with "spares"...Let's see how long my macnine will be down! I'll probably have to find a spring that will work and hit the auto parts store for the belts...Not a happy camper when production gets shut down at the peak of the firewood season.
> 
> OK DR Power....I know you are reading this what do you think? I like the machine but I suggest better quality fasteners, V-Belts & return springs or perhaps packing some spare parts with new orders and V-Groves in the flywheels.



I don't know how much more expensive the machine would be by casting flywheel with grooves for the belts. As both sides have to weigh the same it would take wheel weights or separate made castings to ensure equal weight on both sides. One can look at the belt coming off as a signal to PM the machine. Just saying. It does bother me that the return spring gave out after just 40 cord.:msp_confused: I know it can't be that much to replace but just the same. I'll have to take one off now and head up to a Auto or Tractor Supply store to have xtra's on hand. Might as well buy two xtra belts too. I am also looking at threaded pipe and a couple of elbows for the oil drain. One can use a suction appliance to empty the crankcase but I am in favor of a complete drain of the old. Did this on my Toro Zero Turn Mower and it has worked out well. The biggest hurdle is the initial install. The engine has to be lifted up far enough to install a threaded elbow into the drain hole. Then just screw in a threaded piece long enough to overhang the frame. Another elbow and a threaded end plug. Drain the oil easily then.


----------



## mikereynolds

*Called customer support today*

Called DR this morning and the belts are not covered on warranty as they are a wearable item (This machine has only been in service for less than one month) but the springs are. Then she said 7-10 business days for shipping! But when I mentioned that I was reporting the machines progress on this forum she talked to the "Big Boss" and offered to ship the springs and throw in a couple belts (one time only) 2'nd day! Can't wait to put this machine back in service! I will be getting extra belts and springs in stock and ready.

Good idea about the elbo for draining oil... while the machine is out of service, I'll be doing that too and giving it a complete once over while it's inside the shop.


----------



## MNGuns

mikereynolds said:


> Well after 40 cord split I took the machine out of service today...It is showing wear. After several (way too many adjustments) the belts are wore out and the return spring broke. today and the guys were not happy to be back on "Ole' Reliable" I'll be calling DR tomorrow for a "Hail Mery" warranty parts order with "spares"...Let's see how long my macnine will be down! I'll probably have to find a spring that will work and hit the auto parts store for the belts...Not a happy camper when production gets shut down at the peak of the firewood season.
> 
> OK DR Power....I know you are reading this what do you think? I like the machine but I suggest better quality fasteners, V-Belts & return springs or perhaps packing some spare parts with new orders and V-Groves in the flywheels.



I have easily double the volume of wood through a "similiar" machine and have yet to do anything more than add gas. Could there possibly be an operator issue involved..? It has been my experience that hired hands aren't always as "caring" of a piece of equipment as the man that wrote the check for it. Just saying....


----------



## mikereynolds

MNGuns said:


> I have easily double the volume of wood through a "similiar" machine and have yet to do anything more than add gas. Could there possibly be an operator issue involved..? It has been my experience that hired hands aren't always as "caring" of a piece of equipment as the man that wrote the check for it. Just saying....



What machine do you have?

All equipment breaks and needs maintence peroid!

I agree hired hands rarely care for equipment as if it were their own even though their jobs depend on the equipment they opperate. So if a splitter or chainsaw is down, they clock out and go home and get less pay. It's their job and in their best interest to report potential problems or maintence needs. I'm also a contractor and have a dedicated mechanic that services and maintains my heavy equipment, work trucks, trailers and small machinery chainsaws power tools etc. He has a PM schedule and keeps a daily reccord. He knows his business and does it well. Every piece of equipment I own needs and gets constant attention. 

I don't want to sound like I am unhappy with my purchase of the DR Rapid Fire...quite the contrary, I would buy it again and might even buy a second one (or a SS) next season. I want to give a clear and honest report on how this new machine performs for those that are considering purchashing one over their competitors like the original Super Split, The (my undersanding) made in China Splitfire, and semi China made Woodwolf.


----------



## Pcoz88

Any body consider the mech. splitter from Howard ,Ohio???


----------



## nysparkie

*Ohio Machine?*



Pcoz88 said:


> Any body consider the mech. splitter from Howard ,Ohio???



I am clueless, What Howard Ohio machine is that?:msp_mellow:


----------



## nysparkie

*DR Telephone call*



mikereynolds said:


> Called DR this morning and the belts are not covered on warranty as they are a wearable item (This machine has only been in service for less than one month) but the springs are. Then she said 7-10 business days for shipping! But when I mentioned that I was reporting the machines progress on this forum she talked to the "Big Boss" and offered to ship the springs and throw in a couple belts (one time only) 2'nd day! Can't wait to put this machine back in service! I will be getting extra belts and springs in stock and ready.
> 
> Good idea about the elbo for draining oil... while the machine is out of service, I'll be doing that too and giving it a complete once over while it's inside the shop.



I have had similar excellent response from DR with other equipment I have bought from them: DR Field and Brush Mower for one.
They have been good to me in the past.


----------



## Pcoz88

Melvin Yoder
Flack Hill Machine LTD
7799 Flack Road
Howard,Ohio 43028

Here's a phone # you can leave a message or get lucky and you might get Melvin(its a community phone)740-427-2723 And its not any where near Howard,Ohio but Howard must be the closest town with a post office.

Pete 
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/181787.htm


----------



## D&B Mack

*Finally Broke Something*

So the ram plate broke off. A problem we have been having; occassionally a piece of wood gets wedge between the table and the beam. Sometimes, this catches the ram and keeps it from return travelling. Well, this piece got caught under splitting pressure, it put torque on the ram against the rest of the round. Upon completing the split, ram plate fell off. Emailed DR this morning, we'll see what they can do.


----------



## nysparkie

*Ouch*



D&B Mack said:


> So the ram plate broke off. A problem we have been having; occassionally a piece of wood gets wedge between the table and the beam. Sometimes, this catches the ram and keeps it from return travelling. Well, this piece got caught under splitting pressure, it put torque on the ram against the rest of the round. Upon completing the split, ram plate fell off. Emailed DR this morning, we'll see what they can do.



You are the first one I have heard of that had this issue. That had to be some tork to break that push plate off that ram. I also notice, if it is not an optical illusion, your wedge looks like it has waves in it (Bends off center) on that last pic. Is that so or is it just the way the picture came out?
Also how many cords did you get split before this metal fatigue hit your ram? I have gone through 30??? Now I am going to take a look for hairline cracks in my push face/ram weld. I have had this Wood wedging between the ram and table going on also. Not so much lately for I am careful how I place the stumps on the table -rarely flat side down. That is how I get more jams. SO how many cords - to ask again?


----------



## MNGuns

nysparkie said:


> You are the first one I have heard of that had this issue. That had to be some tork to break that push plate off that ram. I also notice, if it is not an optical illusion, your wedge looks like it has waves in it (Bends off center) on that last pic. Is that so or is it just the way the picture came out?
> Also how many cords did you get split before this metal fatigue hit your ram? I have gone through 30??? Now I am going to take a look for hairline cracks in my push face/ram weld. I have had this Wood wedging between the ram and table going on also. Not so much lately for I am careful how I place the stumps on the table -rarely flat side down. That is how I get more jams. SO how many cords - to ask again?




Looks like that weld for what ever reason lacks sufficient penetration, at least from here. What you feeding that thing to make the wedge twist...?


----------



## D&B Mack

Not sure of how many cords exactly since I use along side a TW-7. However, I had this at home doing some cleanup work when it broke. It has about 55 hours on it so far.

It was a 12" piece of knotty oak. But the real issue (I believe) was the piece that jammed between the ram and the table. I have seen it happen before were there was a large amount of torque placed on the push plate because of a bind along side. Just this time, something broke. :mad2:

Yes, the wedge is that wavy, but that is the way it came.:msp_razz:


----------



## sunfish

D&B Mack said:


> Yes, the wedge is that wavy, but that is the way it came.:msp_razz:



Unacceptable and very strange. :msp_confused:

Bummer on the break. Should be an easy fix though...


----------



## Hddnis

Looking at those pictures it looks like a really poor weld was the problem there, way too cold and no penetration of the thinner plate. Somebody made a nice looking bead, but a weak weld. When parts are getting that thick I like to see beveled edges, root pass that burns in real deep, and then a couple of finish passes. If they want to single pass to save time the amps need to be turned way up. That picture looks like they didn't even burn through the scale on the surface. 




Mr. HE


----------



## D&B Mack

*Update*

DR Power is sending a whole new splitter and taking the old one back.

Not sure why, but hey, I give them credit for good service. With 3 days of communication, the solution is done.

Kudos to DR. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## MNGuns

D&B Mack said:


> DR Power is sending a whole new splitter and taking the old one back.
> 
> Not sure why, but hey, I give them credit for good service. With 3 days of communication, the solution is done.
> 
> Kudos to DR. :msp_thumbup:



Not profitable, but admirable. Perhaps they have been watching the TSC thread...?


----------



## Locust Cutter

MNGuns said:


> Not profitable, but admirable. Perhaps they have been watching the TSC thread...?



Has TSC seen the TSC thread?


----------



## mikereynolds

*100 cord update*

DR contacted me today and wants to send me a brand new machine and wants my old one back for evaluation! We have now crossed the 100 cord barrier and I'm on my second set of belts and return springs. It's about due for an oil change but I may just hold off so the DR team can see it as it is. It still jams every now and then but we are used to that quirk and usually a smack on the round will free it up. That Subaru motor runs really well and drinks very little fuel and uses no oil. It starts easier than the Honda that powers my conveyor. The ram and plate are holding up just fine and I have split just about the meanest rounds I can find including Ironwood, Eucaliptus and twisted knotty Oak. The monster Oak rounds (over 30" diameter) can be tough sometimes but those rounds are too big to handle by hand anyway and should be noodled. I just finished building a splitter for my Bobcat to half or quarter the monster rounds and that should help. After looking at D&B Macks photos, it looks like he tried to split steel! That knotty Oak must be some mean stuff to cause that much damage to the plate and wedge. I bought my Rapidfire because of their reputation for customer service. And look how they are taking care of MNGuns, D&B Mack and myself! I am amazed with their offer to replace my machine just to evaluate my old one! Ten Points for DR Rapidfire. Hmm, I wonder if I can buy back my old machine after the evaluation inspection?


----------



## DR POWER

MNGuns said:


> Not profitable, but admirable. Perhaps they have been watching the TSC thread...?



Hope you don't mind me jumping in - I'm Michael, the Product Manager for the new Rapid Fire product line.

At DR, we don’t get too hung up on what others might be doing in the marketplace. We’ve been dedicated to building equipment that’s built to last and have been standing behind those products for over 25 years. Supporting our customers is nothing new for DR. In today’s world it might seem old fashioned – but we’ll never waiver on providing world class customer service. 

We know not everyone BUYS EQUIPMENT TO LAST A LIFETIME BUT WE SLEEP BETTER KNOWING THAT OUR EQUIPMENT WORKS AS HARD AS OUR CUSTOMERS DO, AND WHEN THINGS GO WRONG WE ARE HERE TO MAKE IT RIGHT. 

I'll continue keep an eye on the forum for the great insight and any further questions, but you can feel free to contact me directly. 

Thanks, Michael.


----------



## nysparkie

*NEW Rapid FIre*



D&B Mack said:


> DR Power is sending a whole new splitter and taking the old one back.
> 
> Not sure why, but hey, I give them credit for good service. With 3 days of communication, the solution is done.
> 
> Kudos to DR. :msp_thumbup:



Outstanding and that is why I go to Dr Country Products for other items in my Garage.
I've said it before....they will treat you good. Especially with a new piece of equipment.
Just outstanding.


----------



## D&B Mack

New Splitter Arrived Yesterday!!!

Got to get the old one crated back up and send her on her way...

Thanks DR!


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

I have had a Speed Pro from TS. After 10 cord thay got it back. The wear plate fill off and then the gear on the rack busted off. Got the DR in 12/19/11 and all I have dun to it is replace the two Belts. We have don over 60 cords so far. I trid a friends SUPER Splitter today it is better in one way. Thay have a handie that auto splits. If DR has that next time I will get a DR. If not I will get the Super Splitter, it is faster do to you have two hands free.


----------



## NRM

BILLSFIREWOOD said:


> I have had a Speed Pro from TS. After 10 cord thay got it back. The wear plate fill off and then the gear on the rack busted off. Got the DR in 12/19/11 and all I have dun to it is replace the two Belts. We have don over 60 cords so far. I trid a friends SUPER Splitter today it is better in one way. Thay have a handie that auto splits. If DR has that next time I will get a DR. If not I will get the Super Splitter, it is faster do to you have two hands free.




I've had my DR Rapid Fire for ~2 months, and was disappointed that it didn't auto-split. The super split(newer ones anyway) on youtube, you notice the operator just pulls up on the handle once, and it fully cycles the rack all the way out, and the springs help auto-return. I was bummed. Until I took off the cover, and adjusted one of the stop bolts a little bit. It now works just like the super split. 

BUT, I would only recommend this to someone who is comfortable working on equipment with moving parts. You could be seriously hurt or killed if your not careful observing the machine running with no cover on.

It is simple. Obviously machine is turned OFF. 

Remove the cover:

There are 3 bolts (7/16") two on the I-beam side towards the bottom, and one in the back, under the output side of the engine. Remove these. Then there are two orange locating/alignment pins welded on the frame that you slip the cover forward off of. You may need to move the handle back and forth as you lift the cover up and off the machine.

Next, look at the handle linkage. Pull back on the handle to see how it moves. You'll notice the two carriage bolts, one limits the downward range, and one limits the upward/return range. You want the bottom most linkage(with the roller pressing on the rack) to be basically vertical when you pull the handle all the way back. Adjust the stop bolt, until you get that vertical alignment, tighten the lock nut. Now you just need to test to make sure it's set right. Be extremely careful, running the machine with no cover on, as those flywheels will grab almost anything that gets close!! You could be crushed, or killed if not careful! You can test the setting with the engine idling.

With that said, my DR Rapid Fire is now identical to a super split in every way!! It is so sweet with it auto-cycling

Here is a link to video showing more or less how it needs to be adjusted, although I believe on mine the bottom linkage, is set a little more vertical:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbBEvzeDUyk&feature=relmfu


----------



## mikereynolds

thanks for the tip...If I could figure out how, I'd send you rep


----------



## Johny Utah

All I see with something like that is human carnage, blood on the ice.:bang:


----------



## D&B Mack

NRM said:


> I've had my DR Rapid Fire for ~2 months...
> With that said, my DR Rapid Fire is now identical to a super split in every way!! It is so sweet with it auto-cycling



Why don't you just put the cover back on? Or am I missing something?


----------



## NRM

D&B Mack said:


> Why don't you just put the cover back on? Or am I missing something?



I thought it was obvious. The cover only comes off to make the adjustment, and test the machine to make sure it auto-cycles. The THE COVER IS RE-INSTALLED for splitting.

And to clarify, when I say auto cycle:

I mean you just yank the handle once, and the ram extends to split, then returns. In order for it to cycle again, you just pull the handle again. From the factory, you need to keep your hand on the handle for the ram to be moving. For a good visual of the "Auto-cycle" ....observe this super split video below, notice he just pulls up on the handle once, and it completes an entire cycle:

super splitter - YouTube


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

D&B Mack said:


> Why don't you just put the cover back on? Or am I missing something?



PER DR YOU SHOUD NOT DO THAT. I call DR support ,wot thay told me you will burn up you bilts and at this time do not try to set the handie up for auto split .


----------



## NRM

BILLSFIREWOOD said:


> PER DR YOU SHOUD NOT DO THAT. I call DR support ,wot thay told me you will burn up you bilts and at this time do not try to set the handie up for auto split .




I'm not, sure if you're replying to my first official post which since seems to have been deleted by the Mods? As far as the belts burning up, it has a centrifugal clutch which will begin to slip. I can't see any difference with the ram getting stuck , while the handle is set up for auto-cycle or not?

As far as putting the cover back on, I thought it was obvious. The cover only comes of for any adjustment, then gets re-installed.

Can one of the Mods let me know why my original post was deleted?


----------



## Iron Mike

DR POWER said:


> Hope you don't mind me jumping in - I'm Michael, the Product Manager for the new Rapid Fire product line.
> 
> *At DR, we don’t get too hung up on what others might be doing in the marketplace*. We’ve been dedicated to building equipment that’s built to last and have been standing behind those products for over 25 years. Supporting our customers is nothing new for DR. In today’s world it might seem old fashioned – but we’ll never waiver on providing world class customer service.
> 
> We know not everyone BUYS EQUIPMENT TO LAST A LIFETIME BUT WE SLEEP BETTER KNOWING THAT OUR EQUIPMENT WORKS AS HARD AS OUR CUSTOMERS DO, AND WHEN THINGS GO WRONG WE ARE HERE TO MAKE IT RIGHT.
> 
> I'll continue keep an eye on the forum for the great insight and any further questions, but you can feel free to contact me directly.
> 
> Thanks, Michael.



You seem a sincere fellow and I don't doubt your statement but the above highlighted statement is kind of funny considering you stole the idea from the marketplace.


----------



## KiwiBro

Johny Utah said:


> All I see with something like that is human carnage, blood on the ice.:bang:


There'd be hundreds of people if not thousands that said the same thing about chainsaws. Or cars. Or planes. Or electricity, etc.


----------



## KiwiBro

Iron Mike said:


> You seem a sincere fellow and I don't doubt your statement but the above highlighted statement is kind of funny considering you stole the idea from the marketplace.


Interesting take on it. I look forward to DR's reply. 
opcorn:


----------



## D&B Mack

NRM said:


> As far as putting the cover back on, I thought it was obvious. The cover only comes of for any adjustment, then gets re-installed.



Because you made an additional warning about moving parts and you could get hurt worse after you took the cover off to do the mod. Sounded like you were running with no cover on.


----------



## MNGuns

Iron Mike said:


> You seem a sincere fellow and I don't doubt your statement but the above highlighted statement is kind of funny considering you stole the idea from the marketplace.




After my earlier mind numbing go around with this concept, I had refrained from making this exact same comment when I read DR's post. But now that you've stirred the pot for me....I'm all in..

I supposed one day down at the DR factory some project manager sitting there minding his own business had a brilliant, original, idea to built a kinetic splitter. And after long hours of trial and error, research and development, strenuous exhausting field trials, VOILA.!! The end result was a shiny new orange SS clone....:msp_thumbup:


Not a bad job considering "At DR, we don’t get too hung up on what others might be doing in the marketplace".


:msp_thumbdn:


If you want a humorous comparison, try a Google search of "Ford truck clone", and take a look at the stunning originality of the JAC version of the popular F150


----------



## CampHamp

DR rep was replying to MNGuns, who suggested that DR might only be responding so well to customers to make SpeeCo look bad by comparison. They were answering you and the answer I interpreted was "No, we would have done that anyway". It was about a customer service comment. Also, they didn't say they ignore the marketplace, they said they "don't get too hung up" on it. That means that they can stay true to their own service standards without varying by product line just because of what the competition might be doing.

I'm also getting tired of people slamming DR and SpeeCo and any other kinetic splitter maker for copying SuperSplit. If you don't like the laws of the USA regarding patents and related protections, then write your congressperson to ask for new laws. SuperSplit's patent ran out and now anyone can use the design and improve on it. Heck, we'd all be driving a Mercedes-Benz if we thought that people couldn't ever leverage other people's ideas.

To all log splitter mftrs who want to remain in business: Use the SS design. This is your last warning. There is a better design than hydro and people are going to learn this fact at exponetial rates going forward.


----------



## MNGuns

CampHamp said:


> DR rep was replying to MNGuns, who suggested that DR might only be responding so well to customers to make SpeeCo look bad by comparison. They were answering you and the answer I interpreted was "No, we would have done that anyway". It was about a customer service comment. Also, they didn't say they ignore the marketplace, they said they "don't get too hung up" on it. That means that they can stay true to their own service standards without varying by product line just because of what the competition might be doing.
> 
> I'm also getting tired of people slamming DR and SpeeCo and any other kinetic splitter maker for copying SuperSplit. If you don't like the laws of the USA regarding patents and related protections, then write your congressperson to ask for new laws. SuperSplit's patent ran out and now anyone can use the design and improve on it. Heck, we'd all be driving a Mercedes-Benz if we thought that people couldn't ever leverage other people's ideas.
> 
> To all log splitter mftrs who want to remain in business: Use the SS design. This is your last warning. There is a better design than hydro and people are going to learn this fact at exponetial rates going forward.




I think it is great the SpeeCo attempted to create an original product based on the principal of kinetic energy. They have had some issues regarding quality, but it appears that they are attempting to resolve them. They are due credit for building an original platform that addresses the needed improvements of existing kinetic splitters. Your "frustration" appears to be misdirected.


----------



## CampHamp

MNGuns said:


> I think it is great the SpeeCo attempted to create an original product based on the principal of kinetic energy. They have had some issues regarding quality, but it appears that they are attempting to resolve them.



I think it is great having more competition in this market line and was initially excited to have SpeeCo in the race. I respectfully disagree with your applause. I would be firing the product manager if I were CEO. Even as a consumer, I think it totally blows that SpeeCo made so many major changes to the SS kinetic design. They bit off too much and rushed out a really poor and dangerous product (imho). I would love to be able to give my machine back to DR during the trial period and say "I can get a comparable machine for $1000 less".

Yes, we all like to see ambitious attempts at improvement, but there is inherent risk with new designs in any industry. IMHO, SpeeCo did not hedge these risks with enough Q&A or make a good enough attempt at resloving issues, once out the door.

I do not take any points away for DR for attempting only minor improvements in their initial offering. Quite the opposite. Do you?


----------



## MNGuns

CampHamp said:


> I think it is great having more competition in this market line and was initially excited to have SpeeCo in the race. I respectfully disagree with your applause. I would be firing the product manager if I were CEO. Even as a consumer, I think it totally blows that SpeeCo made so many major changes to the SS kinetic design. They bit off too much and rushed out a really poor and dangerous product (imho). I would love to be able to give my machine back to DR during the trial period and say "I can get a comparable machine for $1000 less".
> 
> Yes, we all like to see ambitious attempts at improvement, but there is inherent risk with new designs in any industry. IMHO, SpeeCo did not hedge these risks with enough Q&A or make a good enough attempt at resloving issues, once out the door.
> 
> I do not take any points away for DR for attempting only minor improvements in their initial offering. Quite the opposite. Do you?



SpeeCo had a good idea and listened to what the market wanted. A towable kinetic splitter that was priced to be affordable to somebody that wasn't in the commercial market. Unfortunately the production phase and engineering phase of that project left a bit to be desired.

DR on the other hand, being known to produce a well made piece of equipment, and having the means to do so, chose to copy another vendors product, with just enough change to call it their own so that they could be in the game. The real disappointment is that they could have made a much better machine while still using the kinetic concept. Their large footprint in the industry more than likely would have allowed them to manufacture this item at a reduced cost. The application of the energy is not rocket science. The SS is a great machine as is, but as I and several others have mentioned in the preceding pages, there are things that desire to be changed and perhaps with a bit more market research DR could have applied this to an original design and really hit a home run.


----------



## Johny Utah

KiwiBro said:


> There'd be hundreds of people if not thousands that said the same thing about chainsaws. Or cars. Or planes. Or electricity, etc.



I don't think it's a good idea to have your hands near what is basically a rotary hammer. Not something I would trust to keep me safe.


----------



## D&B Mack

MNGuns said:


> I think it is great the SpeeCo attempted to create an original product based on the principal of kinetic energy. They have had some issues regarding quality, but it appears that they are attempting to resolve them. They are due credit for building an original platform that addresses the needed improvements of existing kinetic splitters. Your "frustration" appears to be misdirected.



I think claiming Speeco created something original and DR copied is a stretch. They both based their designs off of the Super Split. Speeco made their machine two handed operational and faster. But it appears the faster portion may not have worked out so well for them. So really, they only have made one real change over the SS that works and, according to the Speeco thread, the two handed operation isn't full of fans.

Just like anything else, people copied from a great idea, but to claim DR has done anything more/less than Speeco is a mis-representation. IMHO.


----------



## Iron Mike

Johny Utah said:


> I don't think it's a good idea to have your hands near what is basically a rotary hammer. Not something I would trust to keep me safe.



But then you are the type of guy that needs instructions with illustrations to take a dump.


----------



## mikereynolds

*I like my DR Rapidfire & I like the Dr SUPPORT*

Business is business, if you want to save$$ sans quality buy "made in China, If you want the original, Buy SS, If you want a DR buy that. I chose the DR because of their customer service reputation. I think I would have been just as satisfied if I had of gone with SS. I did not even consider the Speeco bucause I would rather spend extra money on "made in America" quality. Prior to my pruchase I called Paul at SS and talked with him at length and was impressed. I then called DR and asked about their model and they only had good things to say about SS. Both companies have a good reputatiuon. For me it was a coin toss...Fords vs Chevys. Both good cars. Neither invented the car. I prefer Dodge. We all make decisions and have the right to choose...It's American! God Bless America.


----------



## D&B Mack

Replacement shows up:







New and Old:






New Assembled:











The new table is painted a different color and with a different texture.


----------



## KiwiBro

D&B Mack said:


> The new table is painted a different color and with a different texture.


But still with that dog aweful cradle. I find it hard to fathom why they persist with that impediment to a smooth and near effortless sliding of re-split blocks. It'd be the first thing I'd grind off it if I buy a DR.


----------



## CampHamp

*Product Changes*

So the table is diffferent. I wonder if it is a different type of metal or if it just is black paint. Any other changes that you notice?


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> But still with that dog aweful cradle. I find it hard to fathom why they persist with that impediment to a smooth and near effortless sliding of re-split blocks. It'd be the first thing I'd grind off it if I buy a DR.



The cradles don't hinder me, plus it is nice if you want to walk away from a round for a second.


----------



## sunfish

Nice to see a straight wedge on the new one.


----------



## D&B Mack

CampHamp said:


> So the table is diffferent. I wonder if it is a different type of metal or if it just is black paint. Any other changes that you notice?



No other changes really. The table went on much easier this time, all the holes lined up directly. With the original one, I had to pound some of the bolts in.

My wedge is straight now.:msp_thumbup:


----------



## KiwiBro

D&B Mack said:


> The cradles don't hinder me, plus it is nice if you want to walk away from a round for a second.


The safety police will be along shortly to scold you for walking away from an already lethal machine that's just itching to take out you and your whole family, including pets. That kinetic splitter "second" is enough time to start and end the next world war, don't you know?

We don't get many set-and-forget 'one-split wonders' here nor have enough straight grained non-lumber trees that could fly through a CUCV inspired 4-way splitter wedge mod. We get pig-ugly noodlers and that means there'd be re-split after re-split and some of them are heavy. Either a job best suited to a hydraulic or certainly not something I'd want any ramping cradle getting in the way of. That sort of work would get 'old' real fast if one had to person-handle bigish re-splits back onto that cradle all day long.

Well, that's my impression and $0.02 worth as a potential buyer of such a DR splitter.


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> The safety police will be along shortly to scold you for walking away from an already lethal machine that's just itching to take out you and your whole family, including pets. That kinetic splitter "second" is enough time to start and end the next world war, don't you know?
> 
> We don't get many set-and-forget 'one-split wonders' here nor have enough straight grained non-lumber trees that could fly through a CCUV inspired 4-way splitter wedge mod. We get pig-ugly noodlers and that means there'd be re-split after re-split and some of them are heavy. Either a job best suited to a hydraulic or certainly not something I'd want any ramping cradle getting in the way of. That sort of work would get 'old' real fast if one had to person-handle bigish re-splits back onto that cradle all day long.
> 
> Well, that's my impression and $0.02 worth as a potential buyer of such a DR splitter.



I don't walk away while it is in the process of splitting, which isn't really possible with the DR since it will auto retract. But if i set a round on the beam, i can leave it there and it won't roll off. Not the case without the little cradles.


----------



## KiwiBro

Why put it there if you are not going to split it? If you are bringing multiple rounds to the table and one goes on the cradle while you get others, why not just have the last one you bring to the table as the first one you split so it goes straight on? If there's a good reason for leaving a round on the cradle then I'm always keen to learn, but it would have to be pretty darn spectacular to overcome the (perceived or real) extra effort of handling resplits back onto the cradles.


----------



## KiwiBro

It's just ocurred to me that here down under, DR have a golden opportunity to establish their brand as the original kinetic splitter solution for NZ and Australia on account of SS refusing (I've spoken with Paul too many times to warrant wasting another minute trying again to convince him) to sell into these markets. Get in quick, DR, but please, drop the cradle. I'll be your downunder product crash test dummy and quite possibly the best product champion you've ever had down in these parts of the world. DR, how about you front me a test splitter and I'll pay the freight and line up a NZ and possibly also an Aussie splitter GTG with fellow sheep-shaggers and convicts? If it can handle our woods, it can split just about anything. 

They say God loves a tryer, but I'll settle for DR's luv'n.


----------



## tassie phil

Kiwi, you're an argumentive cuss! I operate Splitfires as well as sell them, and you NEED a cradle to hold the round in place. If you have any sense at all you won't have your hand anywhere near that ram or the wood. (But looking at the various youtube videos there is not a lot of sense in most operators, just bravado, which won't help anyone grow another finger!) Besides, don't you need a pitstop occasionally?
On the other point of getting DRs into Australia/NZ, I have enquired and an importer does bring DR products into West Australia and quoted me around A$4000, which I thought was pretty hot for a lightly built machine with the Aussie dollar above USD at the moment. They also said that impact splitters are not suitable to split Aussie hardwood! Anyway, to all contributors to this thread, thankyou, it is all very interesting, and keep it going!
Ps. If DR is following this I would love to have an evaluation machine over here, even if I had to send it back after a while.


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> Why put it there if you are not going to split it? If you are bringing multiple rounds to the table and one goes on the cradle while you get others, why not just have the last one you bring to the table as the first one you split so it goes straight on? If there's a good reason for leaving a round on the cradle then I'm always keen to learn, but it would have to be pretty darn spectacular to overcome the (perceived or real) extra effort of handling resplits back onto the cradles.



I'm not really sure about these extended scenarious you are coming up with. But, in the end, the cradles don't hinder any resplitting from my standpoint. Rounds continue to slide right back over them.


----------



## mikereynolds

The cradle doesn't bother me one bit....I like the black paint in the table by the way.


----------



## Locust Cutter

It's amazing how many people will judge and lampoon anything with little to no first-hand knowledge on which to base an educated opinion. I have seen he the S.S. in action and was darn impressed. That said I didn't have the opportunity to use it myself. I now have a better idea of what it's all about, but I'd like to split a cord with each machine to honestly compare them. That log holder might be pretty handy from a safety perspective. That said if the the DR had an auto cycle function, (Upon initiation) like the S.S. it might be better. I still think if either machine offered a capstan rope winch, a tow hitch, and a log lift (possibly cycling off of the aforementioned winch), it would be almost impossible to beat in typical firewood (6"-18" thick).


----------



## mikereynolds

*how cool would that be?*



Locust Cutter said:


> It's amazing how many people will judge and lampoon anything with little to no first-hand knowledge on which to base an educated opinion. I have seen he the S.S. in action and was darn impressed. That said I didn't have the opportunity to use it myself. I now have a better idea of what it's all about, but I'd like to split a cord with each machine to honestly compare them. That log holder might be pretty handy from a safety perspective. That said if the the DR had an auto cycle function, (Upon initiation) like the S.S. it might be better. I still think if either machine offered a capstan rope winch, a tow hitch, and a log lift (possibly cycling off of the aforementioned winch), it would be almost impossible to beat in typical firewood (6"-18" thick).



Capstan winch and log lift I want just like Logrite! uttahere2:uttahere2:uttahere2:


----------



## KiwiBro

tassie phil said:


> Kiwi, you're an argumentive cuss! I operate Splitfires as well as sell them, and you NEED a cradle to hold the round in place. If you have any sense at all you won't have your hand anywhere near that ram or the wood. (But looking at the various youtube videos there is not a lot of sense in most operators, just bravado, which won't help anyone grow another finger!) Besides, don't you need a pitstop occasionally?
> On the other point of getting DRs into Australia/NZ, I have enquired and an importer does bring DR products into West Australia and quoted me around A$4000, which I thought was pretty hot for a lightly built machine with the Aussie dollar above USD at the moment. They also said that impact splitters are not suitable to split Aussie hardwood! Anyway, to all contributors to this thread, thankyou, it is all very interesting, and keep it going!
> Ps. If DR is following this I would love to have an evaluation machine over here, even if I had to send it back after a while.



Would you rather a bunch of back-slapping, backside-kissing circle jerkers instead?
If it's useful when (Dog loves a trier) DR sends me a splitter, I'll be the first to change my stance on this but frankly, I can't see the point of putting anything in the way of moving the round back to the wedge to be re-split. It seems more motivated by some attempt at differentiation. 

Next, you'll be demanding Stihl limits the chain speeds so users can get out of the way of kickback, or perhaps a ultra green safety chain, or maybe a saw that wont operate if lifted above waist height or....

AU$4k is quite a bit of split wood needed to pay for it. It would be great to line up a selection of various woods and see what would choke these. Some dry, knotty gum, you guys could throw in some ironbark, how about rather than hard, why not some stringy and knotty old-man pine, etc, etc. The thing is, until DR send you and I one each to trial and report back, this side of the world will never know what a DR can or can't handle. And to engage any closet conspiracy theorists in our audience: 
Perhaps that is the way DR and co. would like it to stay? Hmmmm.


----------



## KiwiBro

D&B Mack said:


> the cradles don't hinder any resplitting from my standpoint.


 At the end of the day, you're the customer and you're happy, so I suspect DR are too.


----------



## paramedicchuck

*DR now towable*

I am new to the site, and haven't seen this in any other threads...

I ordered a DR today. They asked me if I was interested in a towing option! I hadn't seen it on the website until today; the sales rep who I talked to on the phone said this addition is very new. Thought you might be interested:

DR® Power Equipment - RapidFire Tow Hitch Kit - For easy transport to your work site!

Chuck


----------



## D&B Mack

paramedicchuck said:


> I am new to the site, and haven't seen this in any other threads...
> 
> I ordered a DR today. They asked me if I was interested in a towing option! I hadn't seen it on the website until today; the sales rep who I talked to on the phone said this addition is very new. Thought you might be interested:
> 
> DR® Power Equipment - RapidFire Tow Hitch Kit - For easy transport to your work site!
> 
> Chuck



I would like to see how it connects.


----------



## KiwiBro

paramedicchuck said:


> For easy transport to your work site!


Do they also sell optional extra 'work sites' that do not involve highway or normal road towing to get to? If so, then I'd be able to use this tow hitch on any DR if I end up buying a DR. Otherwise, I'll be S.O.O.L with that tow hitch kit.


----------



## Como

Perhaps the problem with the SuperSplit in Australia is that they do not work well upside down? Fuel starvation?

I am sure shipping is the killer on the price, unless you ship a container load.

I will probably pull the trigger before Friday when their current sale ends.


----------



## KiwiBro

Como said:


> Perhaps the problem with the SuperSplit in Australia is that they do not work well upside down?


 that just prompted a thought: how about a bigger/sturdier kinetic that splits under the beam so we don't have to noodle rounds, just roll them over to and under the upside down monster kinetic and hey presto-they are busted in half. No lifting of heavy noodlers. Now, I didn't say it was a good thought, but a thought it was.



Como said:


> I am sure shipping is the killer on the price, unless you ship a container load.



I don't think a container load of parts and local assembly would be out of the question for down-under should the market develop a kinetic splitter infatuation.


----------



## Como

You can certainly get Hydraulics that split upside down, attached to a PTO.

I am currently in the UK and looked to see what was available, most are vertical electric powered table types which I have never seen in the US.

Different markets, different requirements.


----------



## nysparkie

*Now they make it.*



paramedicchuck said:


> I am new to the site, and haven't seen this in any other threads...
> 
> I ordered a DR today. They asked me if I was interested in a towing option! I hadn't seen it on the website until today; the sales rep who I talked to on the phone said this addition is very new. Thought you might be interested:
> 
> DR® Power Equipment - RapidFire Tow Hitch Kit - For easy transport to your work site!
> 
> Chuck



This sort of pisses me off.:msp_angry: I spent the ????? about 2500.00 price/shipping costs. For the 99.00 they are asking to this tow kit, I would think
they should have contacted everyone who has purchased a RapidFire and offered a discount for this towing option.  (If not given free as OME).
Of course that is my opinion and like backsides........:jester:
60 + cords and still flying along. Minor issues of chunks getting wedged between table and ram still. Belts still good. Ram head still good. Have not made changes to oil drain as I was going to. Time is not on my side.:msp_sad:


----------



## nysparkie

*Cradle*



KiwiBro said:


> But still with that dog aweful cradle. I find it hard to fathom why they persist with that impediment to a smooth and near effortless sliding of re-split blocks. It'd be the first thing I'd grind off it if I buy a DR.



That Cradle is hardly more than a bump. It doesn't take much to slide anything right over the top of it. I consider DR putting them on the table as a non-issue.


----------



## nysparkie

*Agree*



D&B Mack said:


> The cradles don't hinder me, plus it is nice if you want to walk away from a round for a second.



Have to AGREE with your statement. I don't even notice they are there.


----------



## Como

nysparkie said:


> This sort of pisses me off.:msp_angry: I spent the ????? about 2500.00 price/shipping costs. For the 99.00 they are asking to this tow kit, I would think
> they should have contacted everyone who has purchased a RapidFire and offered a discount for this towing option.  (If not given free as OME).
> Of course that is my opinion and like backsides........:jester:
> 60 + cords and still flying along. Minor issues of chunks getting wedged between table and ram still. Belts still good. Ram head still good. Have not made changes to oil drain as I was going to. Time is not on my side.:msp_sad:



They send e mails out on a regular basis, or so it seems. Would not surprise me if it was not mentioned on one of them.

The tow hitch is not for road use.

The $99 is a discount, to the extent that means anything.

Hosted Email

This was the last one, 2 days to make the call or wait until the next offer.


----------



## nysparkie

*Towing RapidFire*



Como said:


> They send e mails out on a regular basis, or so it seems. Would not surprise me if it was not mentioned on one of them.
> 
> The tow hitch is not for road use.
> 
> The $99 is a discount, to the extent that means anything.
> 
> Hosted Email
> 
> This was the last one, 2 days to make the call or wait until the next offer.



Hmmm, I'm sure I gave my email address.. Always seems to be me when some SNAFU is going on. Have to Tele...and see what is up~~!!


----------



## Como

Caught with your spam?


----------



## nysparkie

*Spam*



Como said:


> Caught with your spam?



Could be, I'll have to get their address or domain into the address book.

thanks


----------



## CampHamp

D&B Mack said:


> I would like to see how it connects.



View attachment 229249


I just received my tow kit today - will install tomorrow. So glad that I'll have practical a way to move this thing around the property now. That was my main issue with the machine. Heavy gauge material and solid hardware. The wide stance of the wheels should keep it pretty stable despite its high center of gravity (which will lower a bit when you tilt up the front for towing, I guess).

The photo shows how it attaches to the base of the front leg. The tow bar can be slid back through this sheeve underneath the machine and out of the way for stowage.

Totally stoked.


----------



## KiwiBro

CampHamp said:


> I just received my tow kit today - will install tomorrow.


----------



## smaxwell

*DR Rapid Fire Performance*

Hello!
I've got a Rapidfire at my place and I've split about 25 face cords of wood so far. This machine is very fast. It handles most of the 24" hard maple logs I put through it in one go. When it does stall and the belts squeal, I back off, then take another run at the block. I can easily split wood four times faster with the Rapidfire than I can with my 34 ton Swisher. I only use the Swisher for the really big logs now. Since it tips up, it's still superior for logs too heavy to lift. The Rapidfire is expensive given the simplicity of it, but productivity more than makes up for that. 
I hope this helps.
Steve


----------



## Wood Splitter

MNGuns said:


> I wonder if Paul sold out, or did DR just make a real good copy. Looks like an orange SS to me...



I dont understadn why but Super Splitter let their patent expire. Tractor Supply came out with one for about 1300.00 and its alreadt recalled. Super split is the only one that can really make these well. Plus customer satisfaction thro Paul is awesome!


----------



## sunfish

Wood Splitter said:


> I dont understadn why but Super Splitter let their patent expire. Tractor Supply came out with one for about 1300.00 and its alreadt recalled. Super split is the only one that can really make these well. Plus customer satisfaction thro Paul is awesome!



I believe to re-patent something, changes need to be made (I could be wrong here). Guess Paul didn't see any reason to change anything and I'd have to agree.

I read here, or heard somewhere, that DR bought two splitters from Super Split, before they came out with their own... :msp_unsure:


----------



## 3fordasho

Wood Splitter said:


> I dont understadn why but Super Splitter let their patent expire. Tractor Supply came out with one for about 1300.00 and its alreadt recalled. Super split is the only one that can really make these well. Plus customer satisfaction thro Paul is awesome!



The TSC (speedpro) unit is more like $1700+tax+ you better think hard about the extended warranty($2-300). So about a $900 savings over the SS. The extended warranty only gets you out to about 3 years I believe. The extra $900 was worth it to me for the proven performance and durability of the SS. The rapid fire pricing is much closer to SS, I believe with in $150 once you factor in shipping and the work table. Is saving $150 worth taking the gamble on a brand new product? To me is was not. Perhaps I've underestimated the value of the DR name? I will give them a thumbs up on customer service - 6 years ago when my father suddenly passed away, he had a PTO driven chipper that he had uncrated but not used. At the time no one else in the family had any use for it so I called DR. They took it back no questions asked and even paid for the shipping to pick it up. Full refund.


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## Como

sunfish said:


> I believe to re-patent something, changes need to be made (I could be wrong here). Guess Paul didn't see any reason to change anything and I'd have to agree.
> 
> I read here, or heard somewhere, that DR bought two splitters from Super Split, before they came out with their own... :msp_unsure:



I guess the same could be said of hydraulic splitters, somebody must have made the first one and now everybody makes them.


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## Como

3fordasho said:


> The TSC (speedpro) unit is more like $1700+tax+ you better think hard about the extended warranty($2-300). So about a $900 savings over the SS. The extended warranty only gets you out to about 3 years I believe. The extra $900 was worth it to me for the proven performance and durability of the SS. The rapid fire pricing is much closer to SS, I believe with in $150 once you factor in shipping and the work table. Is saving $150 worth taking the gamble on a brand new product? To me is was not. Perhaps I've underestimated the value of the DR name? I will give them a thumbs up on customer service - 6 years ago when my father suddenly passed away, he had a PTO driven chipper that he had uncrated but not used. At the time no one else in the family had any use for it so I called DR. They took it back no questions asked and even paid for the shipping to pick it up. Full refund.



I just ordered one, with a few extra toys it was just over $3,000 delivered. From memory it was a bit cheaper but not significantly cheaper than the SS.

Despite the fact that I will be driving past the SpeeCo HQ this afternoon I can not buy one locally and it would be a very long road trip to get one. So that was out of the equation.

The DR one is Red?

I did go for the electric start but that was not a deal breaker.


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## half

*D.R splitters*

I am real interested in this product, but here in NZ we tend to tow splitters around and split on site, So they need to be 50MPH stable. My idea would be to use 15in wheels, towable from the engine end, And have the center support, from the axle as 2 pieces of RHS that slide inside one another. this is lowered for towing to bring the stability to something reasonable, a small hand operated hydraulic ram, mounted on the center RHS, could be used to lift it up to the working hieght, and be pinned through both RHS to hold it in the working position,. and the travel position. Also this could be adustable for different operator comfort, by just drilling another hole for the pin. I am 6ft and find some splitters are too low for me and hurt my back


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## tassie phil

Half, why don't you give Chris Smith from Taskpower in Nelson a call? He stocks Split-fire splitters, which are nearly as fast as a SS, built at the right height so you don't bend while working, and are road towable. His no. is 0800 200 744. Besides all that, they have been proven on the toughest logs in NZ, which no inertia splitter has!


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## half

*splitters*

I dont want a hydraulic one, I have built 4 of them, I want a mechanical one now, just bought a house with a woodburner, and love the speed


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## tassie phil

lots of people have built their own, but how many were successful? Anyway, good luck, let us know if you manage to import one.


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## KiwiBro

OK, so I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I don't get it. Tassie, a while ago you admitted to being a split-fire seller, then asked DR if they'd send you an evaluation machine, and also called their splitter lightly built, advised you were told they won't hold up in Aussie hardwoods, and suggested half not buy a DR kinetic rather a split-fire.

Why do you want a DR if they are not up to the task and genuinely believe half will be better off with a split-fire? Curiosity?

Oh, and DR, I'm still waiting for your PM


----------



## tassie phil

KiwiBro said:


> OK, so I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I don't get it. Tassie, a while ago you admitted to being a split-fire seller, then asked DR if they'd send you an evaluation machine, and also called their splitter lightly built, advised you were told they won't hold up in Aussie hardwoods, and suggested half not buy a DR kinetic rather a split-fire.
> 
> Why do you want a DR if they are not up to the task and genuinely believe half will be better off with a split-fire? Curiosity?
> 
> Oh, and DR, I'm still waiting for your PM



Kiwi, I'm not only admitting it, I'm proud to be a Split-Fire agent, because I know they will split 100 cords a year, year in year out, without breaking. No rack to break, no belts to wear out, not built like a strong wind will blow them over! 
But then again, I AM interested to evaluate them as a cheaper alternative for those who can't afford a decent machine, who don't need to tow them around, and If they will split Aussie hardwood. We'll see how these DRs are going after 10 years!


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## KiwiBro

I think you were quoted about $4k Aussie for a DR? If that's a "cheaper machine" what's a split-fire going for?
So, the inference is you don't consider the DR a decent machine, have been told it won't handle Aussie wood well, but don't believe that and want to evaluate it for yourself?
I'm not trying to wind you up but I'm still confused. Why would you want to sell a non-decent machine that's costing $4k Aussie? I know NZ is the poorer cousin but is $4k 'cheap' over there?


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## Como

tassie phil said:


> Kiwi, I'm not only admitting it, I'm proud to be a Split-Fire agent, because I know they will split 100 cords a year, year in year out, without breaking. No rack to break, no belts to wear out, not built like a strong wind will blow them over!
> But then again, I AM interested to evaluate them as a cheaper alternative for those who can't afford a decent machine, who don't need to tow them around, and If they will split Aussie hardwood. We'll see how these DRs are going after 10 years!



I can feel a joke coming on, but lets keep it straight, what is so special about Australian Hardwood.


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## Como

KiwiBro said:


> I think you were quoted about $4k Aussie for a DR? If that's a "cheaper machine" what's a split-fire going for?
> So, the inference is you don't consider the DR a decent machine, have been told it won't handle Aussie wood well, but don't believe that and want to evaluate it for yourself?
> I'm not trying to wind you up but I'm still confused. Why would you want to sell a non-decent machine that's costing $4k Aussie? I know NZ is the poorer cousin but is $4k 'cheap' over there?



I was looking at a Splitfire, nice machines, but not cheap.


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## tassie phil

Kiwi, you're confused because you don't get out enough and breathe some oxygen - too busy trying to spark trouble on your computer! 
I'll try to answer in simple language that even you can understand. 
1. $4000 quoted isn't cheap at all, it's expensive in my opinion. I would be trying to get that price down for quantity, and because I would have to add a margin. 
2. There are no DRs in Aus as you well know, so the importer's opinion (they import DRs other equipment) is just that, they may well handle our timber, but how does anyone know without using one?
3. In my opinion, a 'decent' splitter doesn't wear out belts and springs, or have the ram head fall off, or break rack teeth, or shake so much it won't stay in one place, all reported occurances for Speeco and Drs on this thread! So to enlarge on that SS MAY be a decent splitter, how would I know - just by reading what others say about them.
4.The cheapest Split-Fire portable is $5379 in Aus. but if you average it out over a lifetime of splitting, it isn't expensive, just a fair price for an excellent machine.
5. I think I've explained this as much as I can, so this is the last post for me on this thread within the thread! 

Como, there is nothing special about our gum trees, they are rotton old twisty grain, knotted, stringy wood that often resists splitting and then goes off with a bang. But it burns well! We'd love to have some of the straight grained wood you Americans have.


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## KiwiBro

tassie phil said:


> 1. $4000 quoted isn't cheap at all, it's expensive in my opinion.


 Agreed. It would have to be productive and reliable to justify that price.


tassie phil said:


> 2....they import DRs other equipment) is just that, they may well handle our timber, but how does anyone know without using one?


 Presumably, neither you nor I would be as close to DR and privy to privileged info on the performance of DR kinetic splitters as the importer. Noting said importer is also in the business of making money selling DR product, that they have decided the splitter won't hold up well enough with Aussie wood is quite an admission. Whether DR in USA are happy with such an admission, albeit hearsay from a Tasmanian seller of split-fire splitters, would be an interesting question to have answered. Perhaps, through a lack of countering such an assertion in this thread, monitored by DR themselves, their silence speaks volumes?



tassie phil said:


> 3. In my opinion, a 'decent' splitter doesn't wear out belts and springs, or have the ram head fall off, or break rack teeth, or shake so much it won't stay in one place, all reported occurances for Speeco and Drs on this thread! So to enlarge on that SS MAY be a decent splitter, how would I know - just by reading what others say about them.


So I take it you drive a piece of crap then? Or do the belts not wear out on your ride? A few belts wearing out to safeguard the engine is a small consumable price to pay and, to coin an argument often demonstrative of a used car salesman: "if you average it out over a lifetime of splitting, it isn't expensive, just a fair price...". A ram head parting company with the rack /carriage is indeed hopeless and potentially lethal, but one certainly cannot fault DR's response which is in starK contrast to the SP treatment of their customers.


tassie phil said:


> 4. The cheapest Split-Fire portable is $5379 in Aus...


Given these are made in the same hemisphere as two of the kinetic brands, and being a reseller, are you aware of any production comparisons between these two very different concepts? Has anyone done any comparison? I note there was a DR video out a while ago showing them up against quite possibly the slowest hydraulic known to mankind, which I personally don't think did DR any great favours.


----------



## D&B Mack

tassie phil said:


> 3. In my opinion, a 'decent' splitter doesn't wear out belts and springs, or have the ram head fall off, or break rack teeth, or shake so much it won't stay in one place, all reported occurances for Speeco and Drs on this thread! So to enlarge on that SS MAY be a decent splitter, how would I know - just by reading what others say about them.



A "decent" splitter doesn't wear out belts and springs? So does a "decent" car not require new tires and an oil change?

You are summarizing a select few issues with DR and coupling them with Speeco's issues to make it appear as if there have been significant problems with the DR, and there haven't been.

To compare an issue to date, with what happened to Speeco is wrong. Speeco's issue was widespread across the majority of their machines, enough to recall and stop-sale. Last I checked, I have not heard of any repeated failures in DR amongst a variety of customers.


----------



## D&B Mack

IMHO,

To compare any inertia splitter to a hydraulic one is not correct. With the right type of wood, no hydraulic splitter (of equal magnitude) will keep up with a Super Split or a Rapid Fire. However, with knotty wood, or real stringy wood, an inertia splitter won't keep up with a hydraulic one. They each have their own unique application which they are each best at. The same as a split fire shouldn't be compared to a traditional hydraulic. A split fire would never keep up with my Timberwolf in heavy wood. But I don't say the split fire is inferior or cheaply made, just a different type splitter for a different application.


----------



## KiwiBro

D&B Mack said:


> A "decent" splitter doesn't wear out belts and springs? So does a "decent" car not require new tires and an oil change?
> 
> You are summarizing a select few issues with DR and coupling them with Speeco's issues to make it appear as if there have been significant problems with the DR, and there haven't been.
> 
> To compare an issue to date, with what happened to Speeco is wrong. Speeco's issue was widespread across the majority of their machines, enough to recall and stop-sale. Last I checked, I have not heard of any repeated failures in DR amongst a variety of customers.



Great post. My signature has a saying adapted from "when the only tool we have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". Quite apt for the last few pages of this thread, me thinks.

The SP machine has had so many failures and the rapid fire machine from DR so few, it's misguided to lump them both together. But doing so does highlight how good DR have been about looking after their customers and that alone is a great differentiation from SP.

I do feel comparisons between different splitting concepts should be encouraged though. Production rates and overall costs and ease of ownership, in different types of wood are still worthwhile matters to compare when buying a splitter. Too hard comparing the mechanics and construction of each in isolation though. It's what they can produce and how much effort and extra gear is needed to produce, how long they may last, etc that's going to hit any of us in the wallet at the end of the day. 

Much of these types of guestimate comparisons and assumptions, especially whether or not the Aussie Dr rep got it wrong when advising the machine won't handle down-under wood (if that is indeed what they advised), could be eliminated/settled if DR would just flow me a machine to test out. (it was worth another try anyway).


----------



## half

*splitting*

I didnt realize that aussie wood was diffrent to NZ wood, as far as I am concerned. You can split Jarrah with a tomahawk,And Ive split a heap of jarrah rail sleepers, and that is your hardwood, as long as you go with the grain, and as for gum, you always split it green. Not all of it is all knotty. You are triying to make a point with splitting the worst type.Sometimes you still need 2-3 goes at diffrent spots to get through it,If you dont cut it. All I do do is cut it with a chainsaw until it is a splitable size, and shape. you have to do this sometimes with any log, to fit any splitter. , Its not rocket science.

Is it really fair to rubbish a similar product, without test driving it in the same conditions as you would your product. That way you can at least give an informative opinion, instead of looking at a pretty vidio and a chat room and making an evaluation


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## KiwiBro

half said:


> Is it really fair to rubbish a similar product, without test driving it in the same conditions as you would your product.


Nup, not fair at all, which is why DR better hurry up and get me that splitter so I can tell it like it is.
:msp_tongue:

Also, DR, if you had representation here last year you would have absolutely cleaned up. I was there and there wasn't a single splitter that came close and DR would have blown the crowd away and kick started their NZ presence superbly. It's on again in just three months-ish. I promise to park it on the side of a feeder road and split in front of the tens of thousands of cars heading into the exhibition. You can bet your flywheels it would be worthwhile!


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## nysparkie

*Problems*



D&B Mack said:


> A "decent" splitter doesn't wear out belts and springs? So does a "decent" car not require new tires and an oil change?
> 
> You are summarizing a select few issues with DR and coupling them with Speeco's issues to make it appear as if there have been significant problems with the DR, and there haven't been.
> 
> To compare an issue to date, with what happened to Speeco is wrong. Speeco's issue was widespread across the majority of their machines, enough to recall and stop-sale. Last I checked, I have not heard of any repeated failures in DR amongst a variety of customers.



Good Call D&B....Rapid Fire has not even come close to the issues of SpeedCo. My Hydraulic with hoses popping. Pump or engine couplings shearing. Maintenance with fluids, filters blah blah blah. So far for me with over 35 cord split all I have had to perform is belt tightening and because it is new, I changed the eng oil twice. I can't tell ya just how happy I have been. In time savings, not being outside in crappy Buffalo Weather bending over picking up 1/2 chuncks...Yes I have had to take maul and sledge to some very large (Unable to PU and put on splitter) rounds. I am 60 ya know. In the old days I would have picked them up. Really, I feel the machine I received is the Tits. Vibration? No. Rack problems? No. It is the Energizer Bunny. Season two coming up and we will see.


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## nysparkie

*Comparisons*



KiwiBro said:


> Great post. My signature has a saying adapted from "when the only tool we have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". Quite apt for the last few pages of this thread, me thinks.
> 
> The SP machine has had so many failures and the rapid fire machine from DR so few, it's misguided to lump them both together. But doing so does highlight how good DR have been about looking after their customers and that alone is a great differentiation from SP.
> 
> I do feel comparisons between different splitting concepts should be encouraged though. Production rates and overall costs and ease of ownership, in different types of wood are still worthwhile matters to compare when buying a splitter. Too hard comparing the mechanics and construction of each in isolation though. It's what they can produce and how much effort and extra gear is needed to produce, how long they may last, etc that's going to hit any of us in the wallet at the end of the day.
> 
> Much of these types of guestimate comparisons and assumptions, especially whether or not the Aussie Dr rep got it wrong when advising the machine won't handle down-under wood (if that is indeed what they advised), could be eliminated/settled if DR would just flow me a machine to test out. (it was worth another try anyway).



One comparison OR important factor: Down Time for repairs. The SpeeCO vs. RapidFire ? We happy RapidFire Owners have split hundreds of cords of wood while SpeeCo owners have been waiting for fixes that no one is sure are fixes. If you sell wood for a living that down time has to be added to the bottom line. I sell corded wood in the Buffalo area based on the neighborhoods. Affluent housing will pay 125.00 a cord. 25 miles away in the sticks they will only pay 70 or 80. I try to get as many as I can of the former before selling to the others. 20 Cords is a lot of loot to me being retired.
So machine down time is a concern. I have not had any, none, zip, nada with the RapidFire. Happy as can be!!


----------



## ZeroLife

So when will this be made into a vertical configuration???


----------



## Como

I have one and was scratching my head as to how you would make it vertical, or why.

It would be nice to split longer wood.


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## Locust Cutter

Como said:


> I have one and was scratching my head as to how you would make it vertical, or why.
> 
> It would be nice to split longer wood.



The "How" pat would be simple; attach a steel T channel to the underside of the beam captured with ball-bearing rollers (think train wheels) and it would be locked in place so it could configured vertically as well. That or an H beam that attached the same way with rollers full length on both sides. If you did it right and then built the cradle/beam around the channel (with access provisions to facilitate lubrication and main't) it could easily be configured horizontally OR vertically. Mount the engine pedestal on a pivoting axis so the engine is always vertical, add a tow tongue, an pivoting work table (to act as a base when splitting vertically) and some removable handles to move it around, with about a 1-1.5" taller wedge than it's competitors and you'd have a winner. The only catch would be the splitting head, but if it was removable (similar to multi-wedge hyd units) then it could be configured to run on either end of the machine. You could then avoid noodling altogether, bust them down to manageable size, then refit to horizontal for a more convenient work height and finish splitting from there. That covers the "Why". Dual 100-110lb flywheels ought to take care of the force necessary to accommodate a 30" ram. Just my $0.02.


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## Steve NW WI

How do you deal with a stuck wedge on a vertical with a machine that's spring retract?

(My opinion: Vertical sucks. If you deal with wood you can't lift often, you need a log lift of some sort. Wrestling big blocks around bent over at ground level ain't no fun either.)


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## D&B Mack

Buy a hydraulic for vertical and use a kinetic for horizontal. Problem solved.


----------



## Locust Cutter

Steve NW WI said:


> How do you deal with a stuck wedge on a vertical with a machine that's spring retract?
> 
> (My opinion: Vertical sucks. If you deal with wood you can't lift often, you need a log lift of some sort. Wrestling big blocks around bent over at ground level ain't no fun either.)



Well I'm sure there's a better solution out there, but off of the cuff,.... Are you familiar with the forward bold assist on the Stoner family of rifles (AR/M-15/16/4 series)? You could use a similar concept with a pivot, actually much more similar to the loading rod on a black powder revolver. Think '58 Remington or '60 Army... OR keep it horiz and incorporate a log lift into it via the mechanical potential. I can think of at least three different ways right off the top of my head. They'd all hve to be tested, but there IS a valid, workable, viable solution to this. It just take the courage to make the mistakes, until you get it right.


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## mikereynolds

*you have a good idea there*



KiwiBro said:


> that just prompted a thought: how about a bigger/sturdier kinetic that splits under the beam so we don't have to noodle rounds, just roll them over to and under the upside down monster kinetic and hey presto-they are busted in half. No lifting of heavy noodlers. Now, I didn't say it was a good thought, but a thought it was.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think a container load of parts and local assembly would be out of the question for down-under should the market develop a kinetic splitter infatuation.



I like my Rapid Fire just fine but imagine if there were a larger version more commercially tailored I think that would be next on my list. Just imagine a 10 hp engine with double size flywheels and frame, 4 and 6 way adjustable teflon coated razor sharp wedges, bigger work table with conveyor option, a log lift naturally and highway towable. OH MAN! i want one imagine how that one would slice through the Eucaliptus!


----------



## trickytryaler

mikereynolds said:


> I like my Rapid Fire just fine but imagine if there were a larger version more commercially tailored I think that would be next on my list. Just imagine a 10 hp engine with double size flywheels and frame, 4 and 6 way adjustable teflon coated razor sharp wedges, bigger work table with conveyor option, a log lift naturally and highway towable. OH MAN! i want one imagine how that one would slice through the Eucaliptus!



My DR worked fine last season and looking forward to a trouble free year this year as well. Looked at the Tractor Supply model and was SO glad I bought the DR. I did mount it on a set of trailer axles though - not highway towable - but can move it around with the ATV.


----------



## KiwiBro

nysparkie said:


> One comparison OR important factor: Down Time for repairs. The SpeeCO vs. RapidFire ? We happy RapidFire Owners have split hundreds of cords of wood while SpeeCo owners have been waiting for fixes that no one is sure are fixes. If you sell wood for a living that down time has to be added to the bottom line. I sell corded wood in the Buffalo area based on the neighborhoods. Affluent housing will pay 125.00 a cord. 25 miles away in the sticks they will only pay 70 or 80. I try to get as many as I can of the former before selling to the others. 20 Cords is a lot of loot to me being retired.
> So machine down time is a concern. I have not had any, none, zip, nada with the RapidFire. Happy as can be!!



Good call. 
Whether commercial or casual users, neither like unplanned downtime.


----------



## KiwiBro

mikereynolds said:


> I like my Rapid Fire just fine but imagine if there were a larger version more commercially tailored I think that would be next on my list. Just imagine a 10 hp engine with double size flywheels and frame, 4 and 6 way adjustable teflon coated razor sharp wedges, bigger work table with conveyor option, a log lift naturally and highway towable. OH MAN! i want one imagine how that one would slice through the Eucaliptus!



Hell yeah!
Now we're talking. Had that thought for a while. Sure would be good to see a kinetic firewood processor (ram and circular saw blade run off monster flywheels), and how it compared to current generation processors. Smaller, lighter, faster, cheaper cost and to run, etc?

Next best thing to the 'joint venture waste-wood fuelled garbage compactor truck converted to an eco-firewood processor with regen' braking powering the ram' idea that's still in 'development'. I'd tell you more but then we'd have to kill you.


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## D&B Mack

nysparkie said:


> One comparison OR important factor: Down Time for repairs. The SpeeCO vs. RapidFire ? We happy RapidFire Owners have split hundreds of cords of wood while SpeeCo owners have been waiting for fixes that no one is sure are fixes. ...
> So machine down time is a concern. I have not had any, none, zip, nada with the RapidFire. Happy as can be!!



Mine is down with its third warranty repair. We'll see what they come up with this time. I will say, DR is easy to deal with on warranty issues.


----------



## BSD

D&B Mack said:


> Mine is down with its third warranty repair. We'll see what they come up with this time. I will say, DR is easy to deal with on warranty issues.



i haven't been following along with this thread lately, but could you recap what issues you've had with your rapidfire?


----------



## D&B Mack

BSD said:


> i haven't been following along with this thread lately, but could you recap what issues you've had with your rapidfire?



First, the ram head snapped off. Got a replacement model.

Second, rack would not remain engaged to pinion. To get repaired would have been two weeks. I figured out that the adjustment bolt was moving, fixed that myself.

Now, rack won't engage pinion. It is properly adjusted, rack and pinion look ok. Can't figure out what is wrong. It is sitting at the shop waiting for repairs.


----------



## salto_jorge

Are the DR splitters having mechanical issue similar to Speeco?

Speeco worked on theirs but TractorSupply the only company selling the SpeedPro pulled the plug?

The rough pounding nature of these splitters could be their overall downfall.

I can see either model being great on smaller rounds and wood that is not that dense or having twisted grain like cottonwood trees.


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## KiwiBro

salto_jorge said:


> The rough pounding nature of these splitters could be their overall downfall.


 Can't say I've read many complaints from Super Split owners. Other than every Tom, Richard and Harry in the neighbourhood wants to borrow it.


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## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> Can't say I've read many complaints from Super Split owners. Other than every Tom, Richard and Harry in the neighbourhood wants to borrow it.



I would agree, if I had it to do all over again, I would just go for the Super Split. But that just may be my personal experience. Doesn't seem DR is having the level of issues Speeco has had. The guy looking at my splitter actually did the warranty work for the Speeco as well. His words, and I quote, "Well, at least this looks a bit better built. (It was the first Rapid Fire he had seen) Cause those ones from Speeco were pieces of..."


----------



## nysparkie

*Mine is going along fine.*



trickytryaler said:


> My DR worked fine last season and looking forward to a trouble free year this year as well. Looked at the Tractor Supply model and was SO glad I bought the DR. I did mount it on a set of trailer axles though - not highway towable - but can move it around with the ATV.



50 or so cords and my only issue was a belt slipped off which probably was my fault. New machine then and belt just stretched some and I did not do any pre-op checking. Reading all the posts it is nice to know..DR is taking care of others warranty issues.


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## D&B Mack

Well, picked the splitter up yesterday. We will see how it holds up now. Got complete set of new guts installed; rack (which was bent) pinion and cam lever.


----------



## nysparkie

*Repaired Splitter*



D&B Mack said:


> Well, picked the splitter up yesterday. We will see how it holds up now. Got complete set of new guts installed; rack (which was bent) pinion and cam lever.



DB, how many cords did you go through before the ram head broke off. Then: How many before the pinion would not engage? I'm up to 50 cords and have been fine. I'm about to get into 25 cord of logs and I, like a new car going cross country, don't want any surprises. I, much to your chagrin, hope your machine is the exception not the rule with DR Splitters. No other owners seem to be having LARGE issues.
I'm sort of hoping yours was a build on a hangover Monday.....:msp_mad: If one guy is doing all the welding on the rams, could have had a bad day or got sort of sloppy putting his bead down. I keep looking at mine now with hopes of 1. Not seeing cracks 2. Not having that issue. Time will tell. Now my next hope is for you to put out hundreds of cords without another "Ouch"! Stay in touch.


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## D&B Mack

nysparkie said:


> DB, how many cords did you go through before the ram head broke off. Then: How many before the pinion would not engage? I'm up to 50 cords and have been fine. I'm about to get into 25 cord of logs and I, like a new car going cross country, don't want any surprises. I, much to your chagrin, hope your machine is the exception not the rule with DR Splitters. No other owners seem to be having LARGE issues.
> I'm sort of hoping yours was a build on a hangover Monday.....:msp_mad: If one guy is doing all the welding on the rams, could have had a bad day or got sort of sloppy putting his bead down. I keep looking at mine now with hopes of 1. Not seeing cracks 2. Not having that issue. Time will tell. Now my next hope is for you to put out hundreds of cords without another "Ouch"! Stay in touch.



First, remember my first unit was exchanged, so this is a whole new unit.

I never really have kept exact track of cords on it when we were mass producing wood. Since it worked along side a TW-7, it was difficult to pinpoint the exact amount produced from that one machine. I would guess, it was probably in the 30 cord range when the ram broke off.

Then, the second unit started to go in about 20 cords. That time, I adjusted it and it kept going for maybe another 10 to 20 cords. I imagine the second unit was having rack problems to start with.

The part that I can't comprehend: If the rack was bent, but you push down full distance, whether it is bent or not, it should stay on the pinion. But since it wasn't, this leads me to believe something in the cam lever was also bent. However, I looked this over to begin with and could not notice it.


----------



## nysparkie

*Cam lever*



D&B Mack said:


> First, remember my first unit was exchanged, so this is a whole new unit.
> 
> I never really have kept exact track of cords on it when we were mass producing wood. Since it worked along side a TW-7, it was difficult to pinpoint the exact amount produced from that one machine. I would guess, it was probably in the 30 cord range when the ram broke off.
> 
> Then, the second unit started to go in about 20 cords. That time, I adjusted it and it kept going for maybe another 10 to 20 cords. I imagine the second unit was having rack problems to start with.
> 
> The part that I can't comprehend: If the rack was bent, but you push down full distance, whether it is bent or not, it should stay on the pinion. But since it wasn't, this leads me to believe something in the cam lever was also bent. However, I looked this over to begin with and could not notice it.



Hmmm, maybe there was enough slop in the cam or the pinion that it would "bounce" out under stress. Just hard to detect when idle. I know you probably tried moving them around when not in stress but think of the force while under stress. Equivalent to what? 27 ton hydraulic? That would go or be for several different components all with use wear. To the pinion mounting, ram itself loose some and the engagement handle all having just enough that it would not stay engaged. I wonder if DR has looked at what it was and would inform you if you contacted them. Just for the knowledge of watching on your new machine so you might head it off at the pass, so to speak.


----------



## D&B Mack

nysparkie said:


> Hmmm, maybe there was enough slop in the cam or the pinion that it would "bounce" out under stress. Just hard to detect when idle. I know you probably tried moving them around when not in stress but think of the force while under stress. Equivalent to what? 27 ton hydraulic? That would go or be for several different components all with use wear. To the pinion mounting, ram itself loose some and the engagement handle all having just enough that it would not stay engaged. I wonder if DR has looked at what it was and would inform you if you contacted them. Just for the knowledge of watching on your new machine so you might head it off at the pass, so to speak.



But you can over-rotate (adjust) your cam lever so it has to pass back through the "low-point" to release. Therefore, the only way for it to relieve stress under pressure would be for something to bend. I tried this and it still didn't hold true. Some part of that lever had to be bending under stress, it is the only source I can see.


----------



## north1

Django made ​​similar splitter and he mentioned that he was bent axle on the mechanism that was 15mm thick (apology for European dimensions)


----------



## stihl023/5

Might be slower but I will stick with hydraulics. (Tried true and will power through):check:


----------



## Hddnis

stihl023/5 said:


> Might be slower but I will stick with hydraulics. (Tried true and will power through):check:





Yep, and they never ever bend a ram, crack off a wedge or push plate, blow a hose, get rust pitting on a valve stem, break the pump, etc, etc, etc. 





Mr. HE


----------



## stihl023/5

Hddnis said:


> Yep, and they never ever bend a ram, crack off a wedge or push plate, blow a hose, get rust pitting on a valve stem, break the pump, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Umm No:check:


----------



## D&B Mack

Well, after an hour with the newly repaired Rapid Fire; down again. This time though, it had bent all the carriage bolts. Which I'm not sure why they used Grade 2 bolts in there. But anyway, went to TSC and picked up some replacements. Noticed the bar which holds the cam lever stop bolt is now bent.


----------



## D&B Mack

Got to give DR some customer service rep again. They are sending me the new parts. Still up in the air on what to do about the bent plate. For now, they told me to have the repair shop re-tap it. Otherwise, will have to replace the whole piece. Maybe I will do that in the "off-season".

As always, pics or it didn't happen.

Here is all I got accomplished before the next break.







Here is the upper bolt and plate which were both bent.






Here is lower carriage bolt which was also bent.


----------



## D&B Mack

Anyone see this yet? They came out with a cheaper and lower priced version.

DR® Power Equipment - Log Splitter | PRO RapidFire Log Splitter | Wood Splitter for Sale






Sale $1,799.99	
Estimated Shipping: $199.00

Looks like competition for the no-longer-sold SpeedPro???

Confusing specs though when compared to the "XL" model:

5.5 hp vs. 6.0

All other performance specs are essentially the same, except:

Kinetic Energy Stored 
880 ft. lbs. v.	2,356 ft. lbs.

How would this be if the flywheels are the same spinning at the same rate?


----------



## north1

I think that the mechanism has not been set up properly and the lever is gone too far forward and the force acting on the rack on the bolts broke housing
## somehow it seems to me that the whole mechanism is made too loose and too gentle

apology for bad English


----------



## KiwiBro

*Thanks for the info and pics D&B Mack.*

Whilst I'd be rather disappointed by now had a product failed this many times, I am pleased to see the company is standing behind it. The fact they are, makes me think that whilst it isn't good they released something that has a few kinks, they are highly unlikely to write off a small percentage of issues as 'statistically insignificant' and do nothing about improving their product.

I'll stick with my super split and tweaking it for now though.


----------



## D&B Mack

north1 said:


> I think that the mechanism has not been set up properly and the lever is gone too far forward and the force acting on the rack on the bolts broke housing
> ## somehow it seems to me that the whole mechanism is made too loose and too gentle
> 
> apology for bad English



I personally think using a Grade 2 bolt in an area that indirectly receives that much force is not a good idea. Along with a 1/8" thick of steel plate. But hey, I'm just a dumb firewood guy.


----------



## KiwiBro

D&B Mack said:


> Anyone see this yet? They came out with a cheaper and lower priced version.
> 
> DR® Power Equipment - Log Splitter | PRO RapidFire Log Splitter | Wood Splitter for Sale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sale $1,799.99
> Estimated Shipping: $199.00
> 
> Looks like competition for the no-longer-sold SpeedPro???
> 
> Confusing specs though when compared to the "XL" model:
> 
> 5.5 hp vs. 6.0
> 
> All other performance specs are essentially the same, except:
> 
> Kinetic Energy Stored
> 880 ft. lbs. v.	2,356 ft. lbs.
> 
> How would this be if the flywheels are the same spinning at the same rate?



Smaller flywheel diameter, smaller HP, but still doesn't seem quite right in terms of equivalent force. $900 price difference makes my antenna crackle into life. Perhaps there are other things not immediately obvious from the spec sheet? Are they taking a hit on the lower priced model, or have so much fat in the higher priced model they can afford to drop $900 for something that seems on paper costs them only a wee bit less to produce?


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> Smaller flywheel diameter, smaller HP, but still doesn't seem quite right in terms of equivalent force. $900 price difference makes my antenna crackle into life. Perhaps there are other things not immediately obvious from the spec sheet? Are they taking a hit on the lower priced model, or have so much fat in the higher priced model they can afford to drop $900 for something that seems on paper costs them only a wee bit less to produce?



I didn't catch the flywheel diameter. But the flywheel is the same weight. 

The pricing is confusing...

Here is the pricing from the new model page:



> 5.5hp DR Manual-Start RapidFire Log Splitter
> 
> # WDSRXA - List Price: $2,399.99
> Sale $1,799.99
> Estimated Shipping: $199.00
> 
> 5.5hp Pro DR Manual-Start RapidFire Log Splitter w/Tray
> 
> # WDSRTA - Price: $2,699.99
> Estimated Shipping: $228.99



Here is the pricing from the original version page:



> 6 HP Subaru Manual-Start RapidFire Log Splitter
> 
> # WDSRXXM - List Price: $2,799.99
> Sale $2,199.99
> Estimated Shipping: $199.00
> 
> 6 HP Subaru Electric-Start RapidFire Log Splitter
> 
> # WDSRXXE - List Price: $2,999.99
> Sale $2,399.99
> Estimated Shipping: $199.00
> 
> 6 HP Subaru Manual-Start RapidFire Log Splitter W/Table
> 
> # WDSRTXM - List Price: $3,099.98
> Sale $2,399.98
> Estimated Shipping: $228.99
> 
> 6 HP Subaru Electric-Start RapidFire Log Splitter W/Table
> 
> # WDSRTXE - List Price: $3,299.98
> Sale $2,599.98
> Estimated Shipping: $228.99


----------



## KiwiBro

D&B Mack said:


> I didn't catch the flywheel diameter. But the flywheel is the same weight.
> 
> The pricing is confusing...
> 
> Here is the pricing from the new model page:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the pricing from the original version page:


Weird.


----------



## lakesideC1

KiwiBro said:


> Weird.



I agree Weird !

As much as DR seems to have there act together. I am still very happy I got my splitter directly from the man who made it, Paul at Super Splitter. Made the way I want it in the USA.


----------



## mikereynolds

*Mine's down too with broken rack teeth.*



D&B Mack said:


> First, the ram head snapped off. Got a replacement model.
> 
> Second, rack would not remain engaged to pinion. To get repaired would have been two weeks. I figured out that the adjustment bolt was moving, fixed that myself.
> 
> Now, rack won't engage pinion. It is properly adjusted, rack and pinion look ok. Can't figure out what is wrong. It is sitting at the shop waiting for repairs.



I haven't been using it all that much as it has too much trouble splitting green wood and wood with twisted grain so I have gone back to my "Old Reliable home made virtical splitter" But when I got some soft wood in to split I fired it up only to find the rack had several broken teeth. Now like you, my splitter is waiting in the shop. I have to wait till tomorrow to make another warranty claim also...Seriously thinking of taking them up on the return policy. and calling Paul. They have always stepped up to the plate which is the foremost reason I chose DR but I need my splitter to split wood ALL THE TIME!


----------



## north1

uff it seems that only Paul makes good kinetic splitters
can anyone measure me how is the distance between the head and the ax when the bar in the external position
thanx


----------



## north1

*please *
can anyone measured distance between ax and rack in the working position :msp_smile:


----------



## D&B Mack

north1 said:


> *please *
> can anyone measured distance between ax and rack in the working position :msp_smile:



clarify, and I will tonight.


----------



## north1

What is the distance between spliting vedge and ram when the ram is at the end of its stroke


----------



## lakesideC1

north1 said:


> What is the distance between splitting wedge and ram when the ram is at the end of its stroke



My J model is 25 1/4 inches from the wedge to the ram.

Note: Paul's website Super Split(R) Specifications list "Log Length: 25" or LESS"

How's the weather down there ?


----------



## north1

thanx

far too warm to 38 C


----------



## NHMike

Newbie here.....I have been in the market for a splitter for quite some time. After researching the Super Split and Rapid Fire, I finally pulled the trigger and got the Rapid Fire last Friday. I got a deal that I just couldn't pass up.

I was amazed at the amount of wood that I was able to split. There is no way I could have matched that pile with the hydraulic splitter. I am looking at this to a big time saver for me. I will post some pics and hopefully a video if I can figure that out. 

I did come across a couple logs with knots that did not split. I retracted the ram and hit it a second time and was done. I am fortunate that most of the trees on my property are very straight. I have moslty red oak, black cherry, black birch, ash and maple.

I am splitting wood for our house and my MIL. Although I may start selling some on the side.

The splitter just ate everything I threw at it. I split VERY green logs, logs 4 months old and several 2 years old. Didn't matter, it just blwe threm them. I found the green popular to be pretty stringy though. I thought the green red oak would be stringy also from previous experience, but I had not issues with it.


----------



## NHMike

I know...no pics, it didn't happen.

Here is my first pile.....with lots more to come :hmm3grin2orange:View attachment 253100


----------



## Locust Cutter

NHMike said:


> I know...no pics, it didn't happen.
> 
> Here is my first pile.....with lots more to come :hmm3grin2orange:View attachment 253100



So THAT'S what straight grained wood looks like,... We don't have a lot of that in Eastern KS,...:taped::censored:


----------



## Adelia473

I guess no price on them yet that I can find anywhere. Has to be in the same range as the SS I would think.


----------



## D&B Mack

NHMike said:


> I know...no pics, it didn't happen.
> 
> Here is my first pile.....with lots more to come :hmm3grin2orange:View attachment 253100



I think someone was a little excited to use their new splitter... :wink2:

Didn't even take it off the delivery pallet... :msp_w00t:


----------



## D&B Mack

*Done Again...*

Well, going to waiting on repair parts again.

Can you find the bent parts?






Disassembled photos


----------



## NHMike

Actually, I left it on the pallet so I could move it around to different wood piles. I got the tow hitch, but I need to modify it for the tractor before I can use it.

I just picked it up with the pallet forks, chained it to the bucket and I was off.

What are those parts that bent, where are they located so I can keep an eye on them.


----------



## D&B Mack

NHMike said:


> What are those parts that bent, where are they located so I can keep an eye on them.



Just got off the phone with DR, they are the same parts the repair shop ordered last time. All you have to do is tell them the internal lever parts are bent and they will know the part #'s.

The tech that was on the phone said it is most often from people not letting go of the lever when it reaches the end of the cycle and the rear of rack hitting the bearing upon return. However, I rarely ever go full cycle since the oak and ash tend to "pop" earlier on. And I always let go of the lever. So not really sure this time, no catastrophic failure. It was just getting worse, so I tore it down and found the bent parts.

My parts are on the way, DR has great customer service.


----------



## KiwiBro

D&B Mack said:


> My parts are on the way, DR has great customer service.


Here's hoping they manage to beef up those parts and you don't need to rely on the customer service again.
My SS won't stay engaged all the time nowadays, without some very light pressure on the handle. I wonder if I've bent something like the engage bearing lever pins. Have been seeking the nastiest gum and knotty old man pine to see what it can handle and have given it a hard time (multiple engagements to get through some rounds, a few time having to stop engine and sledgehammer a round off the wedge or chainsaw it off the wedge). 

Had one time when it locked up on a nasty, but instead of the clutch disengaging, the belts slipped and kept slipping and boy did they smoke before I could get back around the machine to shut her down.

Good luck with your new parts. At least DR have good service, but the best service is one you don't need to use I guess.

Thanks for keeping us informed.

I notice the stop for the engagement on your DR is adjustable. I can't recall seeing that on the SS. I suppose it would be good to fine tune how far over-centre the bearing goes? Although too far and it won't pop out in a hurry, which is probably not a good thing.


----------



## north1

*D&B Mack*

my greetings

can you measure the thickness of the shaft, which is the bend

My main axis in the mechanism is 20mm thick and the other with rollers is 15 mm and up to now it did not bend I treats the machine with the worst wood that I found


----------



## D&B Mack

KiwiBro said:


> I notice the stop for the engagement on your DR is adjustable. I can't recall seeing that on the SS. I suppose it would be good to fine tune how far over-centre the bearing goes? Although too far and it won't pop out in a hurry, which is probably not a good thing.



There is no reason to have it adjustable IMO. Unless something is bent or broken, that stop point should always be the same. But maybe DR can come along and add input. I just don't see how.

Basically, it needs to be adjust so it just pops over TDC. I can't remember the actual degrees that tech gave me, but when I checked it, that's what it was.


----------



## D&B Mack

north1 said:


> *D&B Mack*
> 
> my greetings
> 
> can you measure the thickness of the shaft, which is the bend
> 
> My main axis in the mechanism is 20mm thick and the other with rollers is 15 mm and up to now it did not bend I treats the machine with the worst wood that I found



Are you referring to this pin?


----------



## north1

that

thanks


----------



## D&B Mack

north1 said:


> *D&B Mack*
> 
> my greetings
> 
> can you measure the thickness of the shaft, which is the bend
> 
> My main axis in the mechanism is 20mm thick and the other with rollers is 15 mm and up to now it did not bend I treats the machine with the worst wood that I found



17mm


----------



## lmbeachy

Different strokes for different folks. I have one and it has split everything that I have thrown on the deck. May have to hit it 2 or 3 times but that is still faster than hydro splitter. I love mine. lmbeachy


----------



## DR Power Tech

*Hello*

Hi,

My name is Trent. I work for Country Home Products (DR Power) in Tech Support. I'm going to answer some questions and try to clear up any misinformation. I will be monitoring the site and try to keep up with the questions.

D&B Mack- as you probably noticed with the new parts, the Stop Bolts are Grade 5, not Grade 2. The shop may have used their own when you had it in there? They have always been Grade 5.

The Bearing Arm should be angled about 5 degrees forward.

Our website did have the specs wrong initially on the New Rapidfire Models This has been corrected 

There are 2 models, Pro & Pro XL. The Pro has smaller (54lb) Flywheels that are grooved & use 1 Belt, a smaller 5.5hp Engine and only comes in manual start. The Pro XL is similar to the existing Rapidfire. Both have the new Axle/Wheels, Standard Tow Bar, New Table and lower work height (25"). 

I hope this helps clear up some of the info!


----------



## KiwiBro

DR Power Tech said:


> Hi,
> 
> My name is Trent. I work for Country Home Products (DR Power) in Tech Support. I'm going to answer some questions and try to clear up any misinformation. I will be monitoring the site and try to keep up with the questions.
> 
> D&B Mack- as you probably noticed with the new parts, the Stop Bolts are Grade 5, not Grade 2. The shop may have used their own when you had it in there? They have always been Grade 5.
> 
> The Bearing Arm should be angled about 5 degrees forward.
> 
> Our website did have the specs wrong initially on the New Rapidfire Models This has been corrected
> 
> There are 2 models, Pro & Pro XL. The Pro has smaller (54lb) Flywheels that are grooved & use 1 Belt, a smaller 5.5hp Engine and only comes in manual start. The Pro XL is similar to the existing Rapidfire. Both have the new Axle/Wheels, Standard Tow Bar, New Table and lower work height (25").
> 
> I hope this helps clear up some of the info!



Thank you Trent.

You really do need a test pilot for 'Down Under' and I know just the man for the job. But he's not available so I'll step in and help out.

In the meantime, I'll just have to keep using my Super Split and modifying it to try different things out. If you guys haven't done so already, I recommend trying an UHMWPE layer to the table. It really does save more operator energy than I would have believed had I not tried it. But then I don't use the log cradle you guys use.


----------



## D&B Mack

DR Power Tech said:


> D&B Mack- as you probably noticed with the new parts, the Stop Bolts are Grade 5, not Grade 2. The shop may have used their own when you had it in there? They have always been Grade 5.



Not arguing with you, and you guys have been great on the Customer Service End. But I specifically called and asked about upgrading the grade 2 bolts, and the Rep that was online went to engineering and asked and they said "no". Just to clarify where my info was coming from.


----------



## bower4311

I have read this *entire* thread. Does anyone know anything about this new model? The cheaper one. $2000 with the tray seems like a good price. It says it comes with a 2 year warranty. It appears the XL model does not come with a warranty. I"m having trouble finding the exact details. Only making a standard warranty with the cheaper newer model?

Also does not have the Subaru engine...


----------



## NHMike

The new model has a smaller engine, and smaller, lighter flywheels. Warrangy is the same for both models.


----------



## bower4311

Then why does the XL have an extended warranty option that the cheaper model does not. Is this cheaper model the one that everyone has, I'm guessing not. Can anyone comment on it? Did I miss someone posting their experience with it?


----------



## NHMike

I think DR is trying to get a lower priced unit to compete against the Speeco unit. The Pro model does not coverial commercial use like the Pro XL unit.


----------



## bower4311

NHMike said:


> I think DR is trying to get a lower priced unit to compete against the Speeco unit. The Pro model does not coverial commercial use like the Pro XL unit.



Forgive me for being naive but what exactly does this mean or entail? Warranty related?


----------



## bower4311

UPDATE: I Just got off the phone with someone from DR's tech support. The engine on the new smaller unit is a 5.5 Loncin Engine. I will be getting back details on the difference between the supersplit and the new smaller DR Rapid Fire. I'm curious as to the value difference between the Rapid Fire Pro and the Rapid Fire Pro XL. If the Pro compares with the supersplit, it may be getting my money. The price is hard to beat. From what the tech support guy said it is not very different. Smaller engine and a lighter flywheel. Not sure what this will result in but we'll see. Oh and there are cheaper tires on the Pro model from what I was told.

EDIT: I got a call back already. Wow, very fast. The only main difference in the flywheel weight. The superpslit is a 74 pound flywheel as is the Rapid Fire Pro XL. The Pro model is a 55lb flywheel. Wondering what the true difference will be splitting power wise.


----------



## mikereynolds

*More troubles with my unreliable rapid fire*

I have posted many times on this thread throughout the past year reporting it's performance giving constant updates. Well here's the latest...The rack teeth broke on my Rapid Fire a couple months back and DR graciously sent me a replacement rack & pinion no problem. But it took three weeks. Once the parts were in hand, I had the mechanic tare it down and carefully go through it to get it ready for the busy season (which cost me $300 for the labor). He installed the new rack and pinion, repaired the bent return bolt stop, installed new springs and replaced the bent bolts (again) and other small parts that were worn. Once rebuilt, I didn't get three cord of wood split before it let me down again...This time, the brand-new pinion wore to the point it would not engage into the rack deep enough rendering my Rapid Fire useless once again. Now it's firewood season and my splitter is broke down and back in the shop. I called DR 2-weeks ago and they said they would send me a new splitter and it would be about 2-weeks for delivery. Well I called yesterday and the order wasn't processed as the rep said it was in some sort of holding pattern. He said he would have someone call back with details and as of 5:30 pm today, no return call! I'm starting to get frusterated here. I bought this machine because of the tremendous customer service record, I only wish it would stay together and do it's job. It sure worked great when it was new but I am very sad to say, cannot depend on this machine any more. I'll report back with what happens next.


----------



## bower4311

Wow, I was ready to pull the trigger. For 200 more I can get a super split shipped. Maybe I should do that.


----------



## sunfish

Wow! I'm glad I bought a Super Split!

Hope you guys get it worked out.


----------



## bower4311

sunfish said:


> Wow! I'm glad I bought a Super Split!
> 
> Hope you guys get it worked out.



How big is the wedge on the supersplit? The DR seems a bit too small. Is the Super Split also smaller than most?


----------



## mikereynolds

*good news!*

Called DR today and thay shipped my replacement splitter today! should get it by next Friday.


----------



## sunfish

bower4311 said:


> How big is the wedge on the supersplit? The DR seems a bit too small. Is the Super Split also smaller than most?



The Super Split as a narrow sharp wedge that is about 6" tall. Works Great!

This type of splitter will not work with the big, wide wedges found on hydro splitters.


----------



## biker250

Well, I just read through almost every page of this thread, and finally toward the end saw somebody post about a broken rack. Is anybody else having problems with breaking teeth on the rack and/or pinion? I'm not understanding how the splitters are holding up so well given the design principle of this splitter. 

You have a pinion gear spinning at X RPMs and then you slam it into a stationary rack....over & over & over again. How is it that more people aren't having more problems with the rack & pinion? Just curious..... Thanks.


----------



## D&B Mack

biker250 said:


> Well, I just read through almost every page of this thread, and finally toward the end saw somebody post about a broken rack. Is anybody else having problems with breaking teeth on the rack and/or pinion? I'm not understanding how the splitters are holding up so well given the design principle of this splitter.
> 
> You have a pinion gear spinning at X RPMs and then you slam it into a stationary rack....over & over & over again. How is it that more people aren't having more problems with the rack & pinion? Just curious..... Thanks.



The rack and pinion concept isn't new for mechanical methods. It is proven and it works. You just have to have the correct engineering and metallurgy.


----------



## morewood

*Need that push into ownership*

I've been considering a new splitter for some time now. I have read over quite a few including the DR. The other day I got a flyer in the mail about the DR products. Now they are offering them on sale and with no interest over 36 months. Is there anything you guys that own one know that would push me over the edge into ownership? I would get the original (pro xl) with the work table and manual start. Just need that extra little something to pull me off the edge or push me over. Thanks for any replies.

Shea


----------



## NHMike

Besides the no interest, how about the fact you get to use it for up to a year and return it if you don't like it.

I finally got some logs bucked up last Monday and got to spend about an hour splitting. I am still amazed at how fast I worked thru those rounds. I am actually looking forward to dropping some more trees so I can split some more.

I really don't think you can go wrong picking this unit up. I have the Pro XL with table and manual start. The table makes working with large pieces a breeze.


----------



## Pa Pa Jack

I took delivery of the Pro XL about 3 weeks ago. Due to health issues I have not been able to use it as much as I would like. I have split about 2 cords of wood and I am still amazed at how well it works. No issues at all. It even splits one year old seweetgum that is about as stringy and tough as anything I have ever tried to split. I love it.


----------



## morewood

Finally decided to make the plunge and purchased the Pro XL. Not sure when it will be here but i plan to split everything i can get up on it. Just wondering, but how big is the crate it is shipped in? Deciding which vehicle to take to pick it up when it gets here.

Shea


----------



## Pa Pa Jack

morewood said:


> Finally decided to make the plunge and purchased the Pro XL. Not sure when it will be here but i plan to split everything i can get up on it. Just wondering, but how big is the crate it is shipped in? Deciding which vehicle to take to pick it up when it gets here.
> 
> Shea



The crate is 84 inches long and 43.5 inches wide.


----------



## Cortez 1521

*DR: Made in PRC or USA*



DR POWER said:


> "Hope you don't mind me jumping in - I'm Michael, the Product Manager for the new Rapid Splitter product line from DR.
> 
> Thought I could answer a couple of the questions raised. First thing I'd like to point out is that we actually manufacture most every product we sell under the DR brand right here in our factory in Vermont."
> 
> 
> Salutations, woodsmen.
> 
> I buck, burn, and split & stack 8-10 cords of wood a year at my home here in the lower Hudson Valley, and as I am looking to buy a splitter aside from my Stihl ax & maul, today I read the first few pages of this thread and was interested to see DR the company personally enter the discussion.
> 
> I'd like a clarification from DR about precisely where the "Rapidfire" splitter is made. Michael of DR speaks of an assembly line in Vt., and of many DR products made here--but not specifically the splitter.
> 
> I ask because this week, of November 30, 2012, when I called DR at its 800 number in Vergennes, Vermont, the customer rep who answered did not know, although she said "they [were] assembled right here in Vermont." That is undoubtedly true. But I pressed and said, "Not assembled, made," so she courteously checked with a DR technical specialist. He said that DR logsplitters are in fact made in China.
> 
> So, it would appear DR splitters are made in China. Unless of course DR was wrong on my call.
> 
> Supersplit is made in the States. This week I also spoke to Paul there, who said he ought to send DR a Christmas card this year, because its marketing has so increased demand on his product (the original, it seems, more or less) that he's swamped with new business.
> 
> Which product is better, I don't know, having personally laid eyes on and used neither of them, but there's only one of 'em made in the good ol' U. S. of A.
> 
> Hope this is helpful to some of you all.
> 
> Cortez1521
> Hudson River Valley


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## lakesideC1

Glad to hear Paul at Super-splitter is well. Picked up mine earlier this year. It was nice to shake the hand of the man who made my Splitter in the good old U.S.A.

Best of luck to you on your splitter quest.
Mike


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## CampHamp

Cortez - if you click on a member's name, you can view their posts to the forum. You'll find more info from the DR Product Mgr on your question by doing this.


According to the Federal Trade Commission, "Made in the USA" means this:

_
For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

What does "all or virtually all" mean?

"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content._

I don't see any "Made in the USA" claims on the SuperSplit site. Where did you get that info from? What about their engines, for example?


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## Cortez 1521

CAMPHAMP says:
I don't see any "Made in the USA" claims on the SuperSplit site. Where did you get that info from? What about their engines, for example?[/QUOTE]

Greetings Camphamp.

I got it from Supersplitter, from the horses mouth hisself, so to speak, namely Paul, who I believe is the owner, who said and I quote: "We make 'em from scratch right here in Massachusetts." The Subaru engine may or may not be made in the States although I do believe that like many small Hondas, it is made here--I'm more concerned with the rest of the DR machine: the fly-wheel/rack-and-pinion guts and frame. 

I asked your question of Paul, by the way, namely why don't you plaster "Made in the USA" on your site--he replied, he hasn't had time to revise the site as planned due to being so jammed with orders. Feel free to call or email him yourself if you still have questions--his name's right on the website.

I thank you for your suggestion as to running down every post of DR on this site, but I don't know why I would--just go to page 2 of this thread to see the apparently erroneous claim of the product manager (who really ought to know, if he's actually the product manager) that the Rapidfire is made here, when the 800-line of DR admits it's not. That's why I would, however, welcome a comment from DR to sort it out. I'm not going to call 'em again.

Mike, thanks for the good wishes, and glad you're happy with the Supersplitter. I think I would be too, especially with the 90-lb flywheels, although I would think the 75 pounders of both the entry level and the DR XL would do the job.

Gentlemen, if the DR is indeed made in China, it could explain the 36-month no-interest financing (which is practically giving away money) as well as the $600 discount, which undercuts the price of competitors. That's exactly the problem with runaway manufacturing in China. Not to mention the death of our manufacturing base. But hey, I'm glad the product manager of DR and its execs are I'm sure amply paid even though in this case he seems not to know where his product is produced.

But hey, I gotta buy one that I can afford, so who knows...?

Cortez1521
Hudson River Valley


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## Pcoz88

*Glad i bought mine from howard,ohio*

Its made here in OHIO.Its a great machine!!!


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## Cortez 1521

*Where is DR Manufactrued; Same for SuperSplitter*

Thanks Mike and Camphamp & Pcoz for your response.

Camphamp, Thanks for the suggestion. I perused some of the other DR postings, and learned a little more--parts made "in Asia" like the flywheel assembly, yet US-sourced steel. Yet it comes down to the DR spokesman in Vermont readily admitted the thing is made in China, under "strict US-std. quality control." I am concerned less with the engine (DR and SS both use a Subaru, and odds are it's made in the States) than the flywheel and frame.

In response to your question as to SS made in the States, it's simple: like I called DR, I called SS and spoke to Paul there. He told me and I quote: "we make 'em here from scratch." Like y ou I wondered why isn't that on the website, so I asked Paul, who said he's been meaning to completely revise the website but is so busy trying to keep up with orders that he hasn't had a chance yet.

If DR is made in China, or even largely made there, it might explain how DR can afford to make a 36-month no-interest offer--that's practically giving money away. Plus a $600 price cut. (which incidentally bring it in under the price of the entry level SuperSplit). Looks like some big margins there, which generally come from cheap labor, duty free imports and such which seem to me to be part and parcel of the wreckage of the US manufacturing base begun under Bush II and continued since. That's my main objection to made in the PRC, aside from the tyrannical nature of the regime.

That said, I don't favor one brand over another solely on that basis. The quality of the machine, the truth in advertising (where again DR is slightly suspect pricey ad campaign but in that hydraulic video, the hydro guy is clearly killing time in little ways, also as pointed out several times early in this thread), and of course affordability.

PS Mike and Pcoz--How's your splitter handle large diameter by which I mean 30" and up and gnarly logs. Is table stable enough, and how many hits would say locust or old-growth beech require?

Best regards all,

Cortez
Hudson River Valley


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## sunfish

CampHamp said:


> I don't see any "Made in the USA" claims on the SuperSplit site. Where did you get that info from? What about their engines, for example?



I talked to Paul at Super Split at length about this before I bought one. He said the flywheels are made in Canada to his specs, the motors are Subaru and Honda and made in Japan, everything else is made in the USA.


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## CampHamp

DR told us in this thread, that the same parts were imported by them as well. They seem to be comparable products to me, in this regard (and most others!). The DR guys did make some changes in the latest model, though. They now have a built-in tow hitch (pin style) and lowered the whole unit (I guess to make it less likely to tip while towing). They no longer have the knobby wheels and no more handles. Table is smaller, I think in both dimensions.


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## Como

I am pretty sure they do not make their small engines in Japan for obvious reasons.


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## KiwiBro

Used my SS for the first time in months yesterday. Was reminded how good, strong, simple and productive machinery like this is such a joy to use that it's not really work, rather a real pleasure. It's one of my best firewood tool buys ever, and I think it will always be that way. 
I paid through the nose for this machine, given that Paul wouldn't sell it to me here in New Zealand. I bought it near new privately and shipped it down here. so it was not a cheap process, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat if I had the money and needed another splitter, it's that good.


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## morewood

I picked my rapid split up today. First impressions are of a decent machine. I looked it over when i got it home and found most things to my liking. one thing that will be leaving soon is the hitch. I hope to put a pintle style hitch on it and think I have what I need here to do it. I tried it out on some oak in the wood pile and it seemed to do everything fine. A friend came over and stood in amazement for a few minutes, then grinned. I will put the big locust on it tomorrow but see no reason why it can't go through it just as well. I'll keep posting as I use it.

Shea


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## Dozer Man

*Check with DR...*



morewood said:


> one thing that will be leaving soon is the hitch. I hope to put a pintle style hitch on it and think I have what I need here to do it.



Be careful of any mods you do. When I was looking at the DR, I talked to the sales rep a good bit about changing a few minor things (at that time adding a hitch). I was told explicitly that ANY modification of ANY kind would void my warranty and return policy. 

That was a year ago, but I would still be careful of how you do any mods. And yes, I know there are ways around this too...


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## Guswhit

Anyone used a D.R. and a Super Split side by side? I guess lets forget costs for a few moments and compare straight up. When it comes down to it which one is the best? I have read all of the threads, I think, about each one and read about overcoming some of the obstacles, like trailering, but I really don't want to get my opinion swayed just by cost. It looks to me with shipping right now it is about $600.00 differant, which is alot of money, but not compared to down time and aggravation. Any more help on the pluses and minuses would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## Dozer Man

Guswhit said:


> Anyone used a D.R. and a Super Split side by side? I guess lets forget costs for a few moments and compare straight up. When it comes down to it which one is the best? I have read all of the threads, I think, about each one and read about overcoming some of the obstacles, like trailering, but I really don't want to get my opinion swayed just by cost. It looks to me with shipping right now it is about $600.00 differant, which is alot of money, but not compared to down time and aggravation. Any more help on the pluses and minuses would be appreciated. Thanks!




$600 difference??? If you want to compare apples to apples... DR pro-xl w/table $2400. SS j-model w/table $2604. Shipping should similar for each depending on where you live. That came right from each manufacturers websites. 

In your research of both brands... How many issues, break downs, problems or complaints did you find about the SS ???

 otstir: :fart:


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## sunfish

Dozer Man said:


> $600 difference??? If you want to compare apples to apples... DR pro-xl w/table $2400. SS j-model w/table $2604. Shipping should similar for each depending on where you live. That came right from each manufacturers websites.
> 
> In your research of both brands... How many issues, break downs, problems or complaints did you find about the SS ???
> 
> otstir: :fart:



Good call on the price. I was thinking they were closer that $600. Origin of manufacture is still questionable with the DR (have heard more than one story). SS is made in the USA.

No way I'd buy the copy when I can get the original! Mine's been flawless in 2-1/2 years...


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## Guswhit

It appears right now with the sale DR is having and their shipping was $100.00 less to my zip code, don't ask me why, that made the differance $600.00 when I e-mailed both for quotes. Thanks for the input men!


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## Pa Pa Jack

I've had my DR Pro XL for about a month now and I love it. No issues at all. I would recommend it to anyone. I have just recently had the opportunity to check out an SS in operation and it is very good also. I bought the DR because of my families experience with the DR line in the past. My father and BIL both have several different pieces of their equipment and they have been flawless.


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## Dozer Man

Guswhit said:


> It appears right now with the sale DR is having and their shipping was $100.00 less to my zip code, don't ask me why, that made the differance $600.00 when I e-mailed both for quotes. Thanks for the input men!



Was DR quoting price on the "pro" model or the "pro-xl" model (the pro-xl is DR's copy of the SS)?? Did both quotes include production table? Something still sounds off .

That's odd with the shipping difference too because SS was a little cheaper, and closer too, for depot shipping to Indiana.

Statement retracted... my apologies to you Jack.


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## Pa Pa Jack

I cannot understand why people keep bringing up the "copy cat" issue. SS did not invent the inertial splitter. They make a good unit, but it was not their original idea. They improved some things and do a good job. So does DR. If you don't like DR that's fine but get over it. I am happy with my DR. I compared them and made a choice, if it's a bad choice in the long run, I will live with it. Some people need to get a life. I RECOMMEND THE DR PRO XL.


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## sunfish

Pa Pa Jack said:


> I cannot understand why people keep bringing up the "copy cat" issue. SS did not invent the inertial splitter. They make a good unit, but it was not their original idea. They improved some things and do a good job. So does DR. If you don't like DR that's fine but get over it. I am happy with my DR. I compared them and made a choice, if it's a bad choice in the long run, I will live with it. Some people need to get a life. I RECOMMEND THE DR PRO XL.



I agree, everyone should buy what they like.

As for the 'copy' thing. DR bought two splitters from Super Split and came pretty dang close to copying the SS design.


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## Pa Pa Jack

sunfish said:


> I agree, everyone should buy what they like.
> 
> As for the 'copy' thing. DR bought two splitters from Super Split and came pretty dang close to copying the SS design.



I don't doubt that a bit. That is normal in big business. Companies buy their competitors products all the time. They tear them down and study them. So what? If we, as consumers, get better products because of it, we benefit. My point is people bad mouthing and criticizing things they have never used. SS is a copy cat product to. He got the idea from something else. I don't care. He makes a very good product. It is not 100% made in America. Where does he source his engines and the steel that goes into the construction? I doubt that all of the steel is U.S.A. made. It's not all that important to me. It's like getting on someone when they buy a Toyota. The problem is, there is more American made materials in a Toyota than any Chevy, Ford or Chrysler product.


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## sunfish

Pa Pa Jack said:


> I don't doubt that a bit. That is normal in big business. Companies buy their competitors products all the time. They tear them down and study them. So what? If we, as consumers, get better products because of it, we benefit. My point is people bad mouthing and criticizing things they have never used. SS is a copy cat product to. He got the idea from something else. I don't care. He makes a very good product. It is not 100% made in America. Where does he source his engines and the steel that goes into the construction? I doubt that all of the steel is U.S.A. made. It's not all that important to me. It's like getting on someone when they buy a Toyota. The problem is, there is more American made materials in a Toyota than any Chevy, Ford or Chrysler product.



I don't have any problem with any of that, I was just trying to explain the 'copy cat' thing... 

:msp_smile:


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## Dozer Man

Pa Pa Jack said:


> I cannot understand why people keep bringing up the "copy cat" issue. SS did not invent the inertial splitter. They make a good unit, but it was not their original idea. They improved some things and do a good job. So does DR. If you don't like DR that's fine but get over it. I am happy with my DR. I compared them and made a choice, if it's a bad choice in the long run, I will live with it. Some people need to get a life. I RECOMMEND THE DR PRO XL.



You are correct, SS did not invent the kinetic splitter. But, they did invent the SuperSplit log spltter. Which DR purchased 2 of and made a direct, and almost exact, copy of.

That is where the "copy-cat" issue stems from... 

Be proud of your purchase. DR's reputation and warranty is outstanding. I looked very hard at the DR, I just decided it best to go with the SS after my feasco with all the speedpro crap.


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## mifirewoodguy

DR POWER said:


> Sunfish,
> You're right the DR is pretty darn close in design to the SS (we've made some improvements including more HP and others already discussed) -- but we took the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach. Paul, and his father before him, build an awesome machine and it's design has proven extremely durable. Why change that?
> 
> What we've set out to do is make these machines more broadly available, at a reasonable Price and backed-up by exceptional customer service.



Can I ask if they've re designed the brass wear guides and bearings that carry the end of the ram down the rail? We have 2 Super Splits and we process about 3500-4000 face cord a year and both of them have constant issues with that design, the brass guides seems to soft and wears out constantly then causeing the guide bearings to fail prematurley.


----------



## Dozer Man

*That's a lot of wood*



mifirewoodguy said:


> Can I ask if they've re designed the brass wear guides and bearings that carry the end of the ram down the rail? We have 2 Super Splits and we process about 3500-4000 face cord a year and both of them have constant issues with that design, the brass guides seems to soft and wears out constantly then causeing the guide bearings to fail prematurley.



:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Como

I can not remember now why I bought the DR and not the SS, it was a toss up and I would have been happy with either.

Perhaps electric start? Prices change so if that was the reason then it may not apply now.

With 30 cords under my belt I was thinking how I would change it.

I think first would be small diesel for power. Second is moving around, my pile was on a slope and I found it too hard to push up hill at my great age. It would have been nice to connect the flywheel to the wheels! The height for me is good, maybe a couple of inches higher but that brings other issues. 

Presumably it does not come with a tow package due to the height.

The production table is a must and should come standard.

I can see why the Manufacturer does not sell a slip on 4 way wedge, but for me it would be handy with a lot of the wood I split. Perhaps before my next major split season there will be one available as I do not have the tools or skill to make one.


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## mikereynolds

*I have both, a DR and a SS HD*



Guswhit said:


> Anyone used a D.R. and a Super Split side by side? I guess lets forget costs for a few moments and compare straight up. When it comes down to it which one is the best? I have read all of the threads, I think, about each one and read about overcoming some of the obstacles, like trailering, but I really don't want to get my opinion swayed just by cost. It looks to me with shipping right now it is about $600.00 differant, which is alot of money, but not compared to down time and aggravation. Any more help on the pluses and minuses would be appreciated. Thanks!



I've had two DRs over the past year now and just got a new SS HD model yesterday. Stay tuned and I should be giving a report soon.


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## Locust Cutter

mikereynolds said:


> I've had two DRs over the past year now and just got a new SS HD model yesterday. Stay tuned and I should be giving a report soon.



I am most curious o see how the HD performs as I'm torn between the HD and the special duty heavy version. Having seen Sunfish's J model in action I was most impressed but I like the concept of the heavier flywheels. Sunfish's did quite well, but with the knots it stalled in (multiple hits still went faster than my 35 ton Speeco) I have to think if that was semi-routine that it would be more ultimate wear on the rack, splined crank and engagement rod, than if I bought the heavier version, which *should* stall out less. Even if it was a 5 second cycle time but basically never stalled, it would be immensely faster than my current setup.


----------



## sunfish

Locust Cutter said:


> I am most curious o see how the HD performs as I'm torn between the HD and the special duty heavy version. Having seen Sunfish's J model in action I was most impressed but I like the concept of the heavier flywheels. Sunfish's did quite well, but with the knots it stalled in (multiple hits still went faster than my 35 ton Speeco) I have to think if that was semi-routine that it would be more ultimate wear on the rack, splined crank and engagement rod, than if I bought the heavier version, which *should* stall out less. Even if it was a 5 second cycle time but basically never stalled, it would be immensely faster than my current setup.



When you saw mine, Hedgerow had brought the worst nastiest knotiest Eim and Hedge he could find to test it out. I wish we'd have had some larger, longer pieces for the video... 

We split a *Bunch of Hedge* at the Spring GTG and hardly had a stall. :msp_smile:

I highly recommend the HD model for nasty wood, or production work...


----------



## Locust Cutter

sunfish said:


> When you saw mine, Hedgerow had brought the worst nastiest knotiest Eim and Hedge he could find to test it out. I wish we'd have had some larger, longer pieces for the video...
> 
> We split a *Bunch of Hedge* at the Spring GTG and hardly had a stall. :msp_smile:
> 
> I highly recommend the HD model for nasty wood, or production work...



Either way, I was still amazed by your splitter. I would buy it with no hesitation as I knew what Matt brought were "ringer" pieces... I just figure if the HD is a small amount more than the money yuo'd already be shelling out for the J, then it's likely worth it for mid-western use...


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## sunfish

Locust Cutter said:


> Either way, I was still amazed by your splitter. I would buy it with no hesitation as I knew what Matt brought were "ringer" pieces... I just figure if the HD is a small amount more than the money yuo'd already be shelling out for the J, then it's likely worth it for mid-western use...



Knowing what I know now and the fact I've increased my wood production, I'd get the HD model.
I've already upgraded the bearings on the cam engagement to HD on mine. But I don't feel the special edition model is really needed?


----------



## mikereynolds

*you wouln't believe me!*



Locust Cutter said:


> I am most curious o see how the HD performs as I'm torn between the HD and the special duty heavy version. Having seen Sunfish's J model in action I was most impressed but I like the concept of the heavier flywheels. Sunfish's did quite well, but with the knots it stalled in (multiple hits still went faster than my 35 ton Speeco) I have to think if that was semi-routine that it would be more ultimate wear on the rack, splined crank and engagement rod, than if I bought the heavier version, which *should* stall out less. Even if it was a 5 second cycle time but basically never stalled, it would be immensely faster than my current setup.



I put the SS HD to the test yesterday and I don't believe me! I now call the HD my SS Ginsing Knife!
It made firewood out of the meanest knottyest-most twisted grainest 16"X12"X18"long chunk of Red Gum Eucaliptus I pulled fron the reject pile that my 30-ton hydraulic slow-poke wouldn't split! But this needs to go to a SS thread. No way ever could the DR do that! I have them both side by side until Wednesday when the shipping company comes to take the Rapid Fire back to meet its maker. i have nothing but good things to say about DR and their customer service...THEY TRUELY STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCTS!


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## sunfish

mikereynolds said:


> I put the SS HD to the test yesterday and I don't believe me! I now call the HD my SS Ginsing Knife!
> It made firewood out of the meanest knottyest-most twisted grainest 16"X12"X18"long chunk of Red Gum Eucaliptus I pulled fron the reject pile that my 30-ton hydraulic slow-poke wouldn't split! But this needs to go to a SS thread. No way ever could the DR do that! I have them both side by side until Wednesday when the shipping company comes to take the Rapid Fire back to meet its maker. i have nothing but good things to say about DR and their customer service...THEY TRUELY STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCTS!



And that's the rest of the story...


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## Locust Cutter

I figured that the special addition might not be worth the $$$ for my needs, not saying it isn't worth the $$$. I knew it had the extra bearings on it after speaking with Paul as well as somewhat heavier flywheels. In fact, it was my conversation with Paul which sealed my decision to buy a S.S. (along with seeing the live demo via Sunfish)... When I spoke to him about the wood I was routinely cutting, my attempt to cut out some of the worst knots, but knowing there would still be plenty. Once I said Hedge and Burr Oak along with the usual length and diameters He recommended the H.D. although he said that both the "J" and the H.D. would soon be getting slightly heavier flywheels each respectively, (although he didn;t elaborate as to when as he wasn't satisfied yet with the finished product, (hopefully I'm not prematurely letting the cat out of the bag). I just have yet to see a video of a stock H.D. unit. I've seen the doctored up units, the one especially with the 3rd flywheel (I don't remember his screen name). I would love to see a video of the H.D. going through Eucalyptus as I realize that is a very sinewy wood!


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## sunfish

We should probably take the SS discussion here; :msp_smile:

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/219558.htm

I have a few questions about the HD splitter and will ask them there.


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## nysparkie

*Check in*

Haven't been here in awhile. I own one of the original DR Rapid Fire's. Have been plowing through wood without any hitches other than long term use items. Adjust/replacing belts, tightening screws/bolts before starting. Still running well and still very happy. Can't imagine the hours that have been cut by using a fly wheel splitter. Couldn't care less if it is a SS knockoff or has China written on somethings. It has and is working great. I have the 3 year warranty on the thing and it looks like i'll get there without having to use it. Lets all pray we have no mech problems and just keep on splitting. Be back in awhile to say hi...take care all.


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## COraghorn

*Gonna buy my 1st splitter, lookin for a little help....*

Hello everybody
New to this site, I read this entire thread in my quest to buy the best splitter in my price range ($2600 MAX!). I was glad to see a post from nysparkie from today, letting me know that this thread is still active.

So here's a quick run down of my situation and what I'm looking for, any tips, advice, will be greatly appreciated.
Live in the rockies in SW CO. burn about six cords a year, have been using a buddy's troy built 33 ton for the past couple years which has treated me very well (the splitter and my friend).

The biggest reasons I'm in the market for a new splitter is 1. Don't like borrowing equipment at all, don't like loaning either. 2. Wife's current gig is over at 2pm daily so she's got 4 hrs. to fill before I get home. 

Yes, I am interested in selling some firewood on the side and the wife has expressed her interest as well. She is very capable and not afraid of big noisy powerful dangerous bad ass equipment. Also I have 3 day weekends which frees me up for this little business idea. 

The type of wood most readily available right around the house here is primarily Ponderosa Pine 30" minus, and Gambel oak10" minus, besides an occasional aspen this is about all I will be splitting

At about page 25 in this thread I was about to order the rapid fire proxl, now that I see the problems that have been had and the SS HD is just a little outta my reach I am once again seriously thinking about the northstar 37ton with 4way wedge wings. (2k + shipping).

Hope I didn't ramble on too long... look forward to any replies, from what I've read ya'll obviously know a lot more about this biz than I do:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Pa Pa Jack

COraghorn, I have the Pro XL and am very happy with it. I have split about 6 cords with it in the past couple weeks and have some observations that may be a help.

I have a very bad back. If I had to lift 24 to 30 inch logs onto a splitter of any kind I would be in trouble. I have a tractor with a FEL so I roll the larger rounds into the bucket and stage them so I can just roll them onto the table. I just got done cutting up and splitting a red oak that was about that size. It took me two days to get it done, but it was not too bad.

I don't know how heavy The pine and oak you will be dealing with, but if it is of any size and weight, a splitter that can be run vertically might be a serious benefit in the long run. 

I am not really interested in selling firewood although I have had several people stop and ask. I have enough this year for my own use and nothing I burn is really well seasoned yet. Maybe next year I'll be more flexible about selling some. In that case, I would want something that can split in a hurry. The XL is the best I've used. The SS HD sounds like it would be exceptionally good also. I don't know if DR is still offering the 0% financing that they had when I bought mine. That was a consideration on my part.

How tough a wood is the pine and oak you are dealing with. I split a lot of Pin Oak and it is really knarly. The DR has performed perfectly. I may have to bump a piece twice occasionally but that's no bother.

One thing I really found I like about the DR is that I can split wood more accurately. By that I mean size wise. Some of the oak I just gone done with was 30 inches in dia.. I split those rounds into as many as 16 to 18 pieces, 16 inches long. I did that because they fit into my insert a lot better therefore I can load it up less and it burns a lot longer. To make that many splits with any of the hydraulic units I've run would take forever. That is my personal choice though, it may not apply to you.

My DR has had zero problems. I take care of it and do not abuse it. I lube it and check the belts every time I use it. Other than that, it's been a joy. And it sit higher than any of the hydaulic ones so it's easier on this old back.


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## COraghorn

Pa Pa Jack, 
Thanks for the tips, Glad to hear that your PROXL is working well for you. I too have a FEL so the lifting isn't what I'm concerned about as much as whether or not the splitter can handle it.... Is this 6 cords all that you have split with the DR or just what you have split recently? 

As for how tough the wood I split is, I really don't have any idea as I have nothing to compare it to. I'm gonna do some online searches to see if I can get a better idea of the hardness of what I split. 

I'm not too concerned about the 0% financing as I have the money since I just sold my big honda snowblower (was able to sale the blower now that I have my tractor to clear the snow:biggrin 

If I knew that I could sale a lot of wood I would just spring for the SS HD:msp_confused:, but that is a lot more $ than I've got to gamble with. 

The DR is everything I need and want if it can be depended on, the 1 year hands on trial is great, other than I would be out probably 500bucks by the time I had to ship it each way.....

Thanks for the info:msp_thumbup:


----------



## Como

You can see my piles from 285.

I have probably split 30 cords this year, 6 cords you could split in a morning.


----------



## COraghorn

Como,

If I have the right info, you are also in CO and using the rapid fire.
Do you recommend it?
Where along 285?

Thanks!


----------



## KiwiBro

Como said:


> You can see my piles from 285.
> 6 cords you could split in a morning.


With many hundreds of cords through my SS, I find that claim a bit hard to swallow. That equates to about my record for a day's production in a near perfect-case scenario with little down time, perfectly sized wood cut and stacked ready for splitting.
If that's a regular morning in regular wood for you, can you please describe your set-up or post pictures? Thanks. It would be great to learn how that is achieved. I know we don't often get perfect wood or conditions here for setting records, so it's always great to see how good others have their set-up.


----------



## Pa Pa Jack

"Is this 6 cords all that you have split with the DR or just what you have split recently? "

That is 6 cords with the DR. We only recently converted our fireplace by installing an insert. Prior to that, I either bought wood or simply burned 4 to 6 inch rounds cut on my property. I've used other splitters over the years, but this is the first one I've owned.


----------



## sunfish

COraghorn said:


> Hello everybody
> New to this site, I read this entire thread in my quest to buy the best splitter in my price range ($2600 MAX!). I was glad to see a post from nysparkie from today, letting me know that this thread is still active.
> 
> So here's a quick run down of my situation and what I'm looking for, any tips, advice, will be greatly appreciated.
> Live in the rockies in SW CO. burn about six cords a year, have been using a buddy's troy built 33 ton for the past couple years which has treated me very well (the splitter and my friend).
> 
> The biggest reasons I'm in the market for a new splitter is 1. Don't like borrowing equipment at all, don't like loaning either. 2. Wife's current gig is over at 2pm daily so she's got 4 hrs. to fill before I get home.
> 
> Yes, I am interested in selling some firewood on the side and the wife has expressed her interest as well. She is very capable and not afraid of big noisy powerful dangerous bad ass equipment. Also I have 3 day weekends which frees me up for this little business idea.
> 
> The type of wood most readily available right around the house here is primarily Ponderosa Pine 30" minus, and Gambel oak10" minus, besides an occasional aspen this is about all I will be splitting
> 
> * At about page 25 in this thread I was about to order the rapid fire proxl, now that I see the problems that have been had and the SS HD is just a little outta my reach I am once again seriously thinking about the northstar 37ton with 4way wedge wings. (2k + shipping).*
> 
> Hope I didn't ramble on too long... look forward to any replies, from what I've read ya'll obviously know a lot more about this biz than I do:msp_biggrin:


For 6 cords a year the SS HD is just not needed, the J model will do more than fine. I'm doin around 20 cords of oak, locus and red elm with the J... I could use a HD at this point, but I'm staying with the J...:msp_smile:


----------



## sunfish

Como said:


> You can see my piles from 285.
> 
> I have probably split 30 cords this year, 6 cords you could split in a morning.



6 full cords in a morning :msp_confused:

I can be pretty fast, but a cord an hour is about all I can do! :msp_smile:


----------



## Hddnis

Well, morning does last from 0600 hrs. to 1200 hrs.:hmm3grin2orange:




Mr. HE


----------



## Dozer Man

*J Model rep*

COraghorn keep this in mind... If you are comparing a ProXL to a SuperSplit, then you need to compare it to the "J model" SS. That is the machine it was copied from. The SS HD is even more of a splitter than the J model. Before you go investing into the long DR warranty, you have to ask yourself how much wood you intend to process per year. As for me, 10 to 20 cord per year in 5 years puts me at 50 to 100 cord (which is where I believe the problems have been showing up with the DR in commercial use). At that point it would be out of any plausible warranty. And don't forget that if you sell firewood, then technicaly it is commercial use, which limits your warranty greatly (I won't tell either). 

It was at that point in my research that I started searching the forums for disgruntled SS owners for comparison... I'm still looking.


----------



## COraghorn

Thanks for the info everyone!
I'm going to call Super Split tomorrow and see what Paul has to say about my types of wood/volume, I am leaning towards the super split at this point, it's either that or the north star 37ton w/4way.....
Problem with the north star is by the time I have it shipped here and put 9 gallons of hydraulic oil in it I've just about paid for a Super Split


----------



## sunfish

Hddnis said:


> Well, morning does last from 0600 hrs. to 1200 hrs.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



I thought about that... After I posted. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## sunfish

COraghorn said:


> Thanks for the info everyone!
> I'm going to call Super Split tomorrow and see what Paul has to say about my types of wood/volume, I am leaning towards the super split at this point, it's either that or the north star 37ton w/4way.....
> Problem with the north star is by the time I have it shipped here and put 9 gallons of hydraulic oil in it I've just about paid for a Super Split



Always good to talk to Paul...

Absolutely no way I could go back to a hydro (any size, any brand), after using the SS for 2.5 years. :msp_wink:


----------



## KiwiBro

Dozer Man said:


> It was at that point in my research that I started searching the forums for disgruntled SS owners for comparison... I'm still looking.


Hey, I've complained to everyone who will listen about my SS. There's no end of complaints about it. they go like:

Now I've got two bottle-necks (one either side of the splitter) whereas before in big wood i just had one (the hydro splitter)
everyone keeps wanting to borrow my splitter
I can't get much work done some days when fresh onsite as people can literally come out of the woods to yak about the splitter
Every bugger can't believe it will handle anything they can lift on the table and takes that as a challenge, which means I have to stop work and let them have a go, slowing me down. I've gotten around that by getting them to pony up some $ as a bet. This helps compensate me for the downtime.
One firewood retailer tried to screw me down on price of the wood I was wholesaling to him when he found out what I'm knocking out per day.


----------



## Como

Pa Pa Jack said:


> "Is this 6 cords all that you have split with the DR or just what you have split recently? "
> 
> That is 6 cords with the DR. We only recently converted our fireplace by installing an insert. Prior to that, I either bought wood or simply burned 4 to 6 inch rounds cut on my property. I've used other splitters over the years, but this is the first one I've owned.



View attachment 271831


I think I have split 30 ish cords this year.

I did a trial and that little pile took 6 minutes, most of my wood is c24 inch length, I do cut some smaller which obviously increases time. And I am probably older than most on this board and at 10,000ft we have little oxygen.

I do have one larger pile left but it is at the back and my truck is in the Garage so I am going to wait until I can drive it around, dragging that puppy uphill hurts. As I mentioned in another thread I prefer bigger rounds, one lift. The main issue is picking them up.

Now the morning comment was in response to 2 people doing it, 3 hours seems long enough for 2 not rushing. 16 inch and maybe 4.

View attachment 271837


285 in the background.

I am in..

Wait for it....

Como.


----------



## Como

KiwiBro said:


> With many hundreds of cords through my SS, I find that claim a bit hard to swallow. That equates to about my record for a day's production in a near perfect-case scenario with little down time, perfectly sized wood cut and stacked ready for splitting.
> If that's a regular morning in regular wood for you, can you please describe your set-up or post pictures? Thanks. It would be great to learn how that is achieved. I know we don't often get perfect wood or conditions here for setting records, so it's always great to see how good others have their set-up.



Well it depends on the length you cut, as I mentioned for my main stove I use 24, the small one 16 or smaller and the Boilers will take 32.

The time is cutting and moving, splitting is the quick bit.

Where my wood was is on a slope so first I blocked then I started at the top with the tray uphill and worked my way through leaving a trail of split wood behind me. Often the splitter moves itself, otherwise it is a quick tug to move it back a foot.

My plan next time, I have only half a cord wood left to split, is to keep the splitter stationary, split into dino bags which just arrived. Wood logs to be cut to length as I drag them off truck/trailer.

And get a helper to pick them up, place them on the tray, the bit that hurts.

Most of my wood in the future can be up to 32 with some 16.

Plus in my favour:
Mainly Pine, some Aspen and Doug Fir.
Well seasoned.
Minuses
My age!
Altitude, lose about 30% power on splitter and chainsaw and me.


----------



## COraghorn

*Still deciding*

Nice pics Como,

Looks like the San Luis Valley, I grew up in Manassa (South of Alamosa) and am now just North of Bayfield so it looks like the types of wood we get into are very similar. 
Other than all the scrub/gambel (not real sure) oak I have on a 40 acre piece I bought about a year ago, biggest the oak gets is 8-10" and I cut everything to 16" lengths so I think this should be fairly light duty.


----------



## Como

COraghorn said:


> Nice pics Como,
> 
> Looks like the San Luis Valley, I grew up in Manassa (South of Alamosa) and am now just North of Bayfield so it looks like the types of wood we get into are very similar.
> Other than all the scrub/gambel (not real sure) oak I have on a 40 acre piece I bought about a year ago, biggest the oak gets is 8-10" and I cut everything to 16" lengths so I think this should be fairly light duty.



South Park, San Luis I think is much lower.

I know Bayfield well and the area you live in is I assume on the back road to Durango.

Shame the Steamworks brewpub closed. I assume it has not reopened.


----------



## COraghorn

Ya, a bit lower, Manassa sits at 7700'. Yes I am on the back road to Durango.
Steamworks in Durango is still open, in fact a couple weeks ago I restored power to one of the Owner's homes and he gave me coupons for 3 free pints, a tree in his back yard fell and ripped the service off his house.


----------



## Hddnis

KiwiBro said:


> ...
> [*]One firewood retailer tried to screw me down on price of the wood I was wholesaling to him when he found out what I'm knocking out per day.
> [*]
> [/LIST]





You got to be kidding!?!?!?!

I'd have told him what position he could assume in regards to that!

Sure, you have to be competative, but you got yourself a little padding in the splitting area of the business by your own hard work and hard earned coin, no reason that he should reap the rewards just because he found out about it.

I guess I can't fault him too much for asking, but at the same time it just seems cheap to assume he gets a cut because of what you've worked to achive. In the end prices are determined by the whole market, not by what you can afford to sell at.


Mr. HE


----------



## COraghorn

Como said:


> View attachment 271831
> 
> 
> I think I have split 30 ish cords this year.
> 
> I did a trial and that little pile took 6 minutes, most of my wood is c24 inch length, I do cut some smaller which obviously increases time. And I am probably older than most on this board and at 10,000ft we have little oxygen.
> 
> I do have one larger pile left but it is at the back and my truck is in the Garage so I am going to wait until I can drive it around, dragging that puppy uphill hurts. As I mentioned in another thread I prefer bigger rounds, one lift. The main issue is picking them up.
> 
> Now the morning comment was in response to 2 people doing it, 3 hours seems long enough for 2 not rushing. 16 inch and maybe 4.
> 
> View attachment 271837
> 
> 
> 
> 285 in the background.
> 
> I am in..
> 
> Wait for it....
> 
> Como.






Had no idea there was a Como Colorado.... looks pretty sweet


----------



## Locust Cutter

COraghorn said:


> Had no idea there was a Como Colorado.... looks pretty sweet



How far is that from the Buena Vista/Salida area?


----------



## Como

Locust Cutter said:


> How far is that from the Buena Vista/Salida area?



About half way from Denver.

In the Truck it is about an hour to C470, less in the car.....

Steamworks had a Brewery in Bayfield with a Brewpub as well, next to the Library. My wife worked at the Library.


----------



## Locust Cutter

Nice. The family has a postage stamp sized piece of land up-canyon from the Mt. Princeton Hot Springs, on the way to Elmo. I grew up splashing in Chalk Creek, feebly attempting to be a fly fisherman, chasing Brookies, Browns, Speckled and Rainbows... Up towards Elmo, you'll tend to find Cut-Throats... I need to get back and spend awhile in the canyon again. I also have family in Buena Vista and Aurora.


----------



## COraghorn

Wanted to give everybody an update on my search for the "best woodsplitter". Based on what I've learned here and other online searches I plan on ordering a super split J model! I'd order it today but everything is covered in snow and it's snowing as I type this so I'm thinkin probably the 1st of March. 
I appreciate the response to my original post! What I'm looking for in the meantime is the dimensions of super split's production table, I wish I had the $ to just add it to my order but I'm going to build my own. Not that they're unfairly priced, I've just maxed out my budget:msp_sad:. If anyone is willing to give me the dimensions that would be great, I know that's a challenge as the production table is not exactly square, round or any other shape????


----------



## Como

COraghorn said:


> Wanted to give everybody an update on my search for the "best woodsplitter". Based on what I've learned here and other online searches I plan on ordering a super split J model! I'd order it today but everything is covered in snow and it's snowing as I type this so I'm thinkin probably the 1st of March.
> I appreciate the response to my original post! What I'm looking for in the meantime is the dimensions of super split's production table, I wish I had the $ to just add it to my order but I'm going to build my own. Not that they're unfairly priced, I've just maxed out my budget:msp_sad:. If anyone is willing to give me the dimensions that would be great, I know that's a challenge as the production table is not exactly square, round or any other shape????



I have a table for the DR, but that is not going to help.

I consider it essential, I also have the tow bar as it is OK on the flat but a SOB up hill, maybe I am just getting weak.

I am also making a wheel to fit on the front stand to help moveability. Not sure how that will work. We will see.

It is top heavy for towing but I have a small HF trailer that should do the job.

If anything the DR table could be an inch or two wider, for me, I have long arms. There is a metal V on each side of beam on the table that helps stop ready wood moving to the center. It is handy to grab two pieces to split, put one in the split location, and the other to one side The V stops it sliding into the middle. Split the first piece and then push the second piece over and split. Anything larger well it does not really matter so work on the basis of what you can pick up.


----------



## Cathousemouse

*New guy needs advice*

Hello everyone, Im the new guy here just looking for advice from the guys that are using the Rapid Fire splitter. I am looking into the purchase of a new splitter and really like the Rapid Fire. My question is , Do you guys feel that this splitter has enough energy to split wood thru a grid type wedge instead of the single wedge that comes with it? I really like the splitter except for the process of splitting a single piece at a time. Thanks for any advice and this seems to be a great forum, alot of very good info here. Thanks again.


----------



## Como

Cathousemouse said:


> Hello everyone, Im the new guy here just looking for advice from the guys that are using the Rapid Fire splitter. I am looking into the purchase of a new splitter and really like the Rapid Fire. My question is , Do you guys feel that this splitter has enough energy to split wood thru a grid type wedge instead of the single wedge that comes with it? I really like the splitter except for the process of splitting a single piece at a time. Thanks for any advice and this seems to be a great forum, alot of very good info here. Thanks again.



No, not a good idea, maybe a 4 way with the right wood.


----------



## KiwiBro

Como said:


> No, not a good idea, maybe a 4 way with the right wood.


 And an extra flywheel


----------



## D&B Mack

Cathousemouse said:


> My question is , Do you guys feel that this splitter has enough energy to split wood thru a grid type wedge instead of the single wedge that comes with it?



No.


----------



## scotte303

*DR Rapid Fire updates*

Been reading through this thread, was hoping to get an update on the DR Rapid fire now thats its been around awhile. I have read that it takes anything you can throw at it as long as you can lift it up there which is one downfall in itself. But I s'pose you can just cut the larger rounds in half or quarters for that matter.
Otherwise have heard nothing but positive remarks.


----------



## Steve NW WI

scotte - keep reading through this thread. There are guys who've had problems with this machine, and some of the posts in this thread tell all about it.

Sorry I don't have time to dig the posts up for you, grab a cold beverage and wade on in.


----------



## COraghorn

*DR question*

Hello Scotte,
I came to this forum several weeks ago asking about the rapid fire, at that time I was fairly convinced that the DR was the splitter to buy, until I did my research. 
I spent at least 12 hours researching the splitter and to make a long story short, I now plan on ordering the Super Split from Paul here in the next couple months. I would have ordered it already but I have no reason to spend the money while I've still got 4 feet of snow in my yard. 
Anyway, just wanted to share a little about where I had gotten with the DR splitter, good luck in your search.
By the way, not only did I find the Super Split to be a far superior product but when I called, Paul, the owner actually picked up the phone, when I called DR... just another salesman....


----------



## CampHamp

scotte303 - I've been using the DR for over a year now (Pro-XL). It's built solid and works great. I would recommend it to anyone chopping more than a few cord a year. Wishing you good choppin'!


----------



## KiwiBro

COraghorn said:


> Hello Scotte,
> I came to this forum several weeks ago asking about the rapid fire, at that time I was fairly convinced that the DR was the splitter to buy, until I did my research.
> I spent at least 12 hours researching the splitter and to make a long story short, I now plan on ordering the Super Split from Paul here in the next couple months. I would have ordered it already but I have no reason to spend the money while I've still got 4 feet of snow in my yard.
> Anyway, just wanted to share a little about where I had gotten with the DR splitter, good luck in your search.
> By the way, not only did I find the Super Split to be a far superior product but when I called, Paul, the owner actually picked up the phone, when I called DR... just another salesman....



You're doing exactly what I thought you'd do. That is ignore my advice and go kinetic right off the bat . It's not without it's merits and I can't help but smile as it's probably exactly what I would have done too.


----------



## Pcoz88

You should buy that mech. splitter built in Ohio.Its awesome!! built buy an Amish man.Howard,ohio!!!


----------



## scotte303

Pcoz88 said:


> You should buy that mech. splitter built in Ohio.Its awesome!! built buy an Amish man.Howard,ohio!!!



Which splitter is that?


----------



## scotte303

KiwiBro said:


> You're doing exactly what I thought you'd do. That is ignore my advice and go kinetic right off the bat . It's not without it's merits and I can't help but smile as it's probably exactly what I would have done too.



Hey Kiwi,
I will be getting the SS or the DR. just trying to boil down which one.


----------



## scotte303

CampHamp said:


> scotte303 - I've been using the DR for over a year now (Pro-XL). It's built solid and works great. I would recommend it to anyone chopping more than a few cord a year. Wishing you good choppin'!



I have heard alot of people like them and the customer service is excellent. Thanks for your input.


----------



## scotte303

COraghorn said:


> Hello Scotte,
> I came to this forum several weeks ago asking about the rapid fire, at that time I was fairly convinced that the DR was the splitter to buy, until I did my research.
> I spent at least 12 hours researching the splitter and to make a long story short, I now plan on ordering the Super Split from Paul here in the next couple months. I would have ordered it already but I have no reason to spend the money while I've still got 4 feet of snow in my yard.
> Anyway, just wanted to share a little about where I had gotten with the DR splitter, good luck in your search.
> By the way, not only did I find the Super Split to be a far superior product but when I called, Paul, the owner actually picked up the phone, when I called DR... just another salesman....



I am starting to lean this way as well. however there are some very good reviews on the DR as well.
Some of the things on my mind are.
1. SS has been around for years which is a great thing, however I also understand its a small mom and pop shop. Will they retire soon? Will they sell to another large company with lousy support?
2. what kind of financing do they offer?
3.at the present time, DR has 0% financing for 36 months and with 2 kids in college, money is tight.
4. I have heard great reviews on DR customer service and it appears they are a growing business.

So there are my concerns with the big one being the financing.

Thanks again,

Scott


----------



## Pcoz88

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/181787.htm


Melvin Yoder
Flack Hill Machine LTD
7799 Flack Road
Howard,Ohio 43028

Here's a phone # you can leave a message or get lucky and you might get Melvin(its a community phone)740-427-2723 And its not any where near Howard,Ohio but Howard must be the closest town with a post office.

Pete 

yes I know not a big business like d&r or super split but,its very well built.one year warranty(which mine is out of)30 day money back.Any body who on here lives close to 44836(Green Springs,Ohio) I would let you run it and ck it out.Pm me if you would like to ck it out.All have to split right now is ash.Bring some wood with ya.


----------



## KiwiBro

scotte303 said:


> Hey Kiwi,
> I will be getting the SS or the DR. just trying to boil down which one.


SS. No contest. End of.


----------



## COraghorn

KiwiBro said:


> You're doing exactly what I thought you'd do. That is ignore my advice and go kinetic right off the bat . It's not without it's merits and I can't help but smile as it's probably exactly what I would have done too.



I know it, Kiwibro, I may be better off w/hydraulic but I can't afford to buy 2 splitters, and I have to have the SPEED


----------



## sunfish

scotte303 said:


> I am starting to lean this way as well. however there are some very good reviews on the DR as well.
> Some of the things on my mind are.
> 1. SS has been around for years which is a great thing, however I also understand its a small mom and pop shop. Will they retire soon? Will they sell to another large company with lousy support?
> 2. what kind of financing do they offer?
> 3.at the present time, DR has 0% financing for 36 months and with 2 kids in college, money is tight.
> 4. I have heard great reviews on DR customer service and it appears they are a growing business.
> 
> So there are my concerns with the big one being the financing.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Scott


Good questions! 

1) SS has been around a long time. Paul took over from his FIL if I remember right. His sons are heavily involved now and look to carry on the business well into the future.

2)No financing as far as I know. I'm also completely debt free, but that's for another conversation.

3) I would still rather have an SS than a DR. 

4) DR is a large growing company, that copied SS. I'd rather deal with the owner of a small mom & pop.


----------



## Guswhit

scotte303 said:


> I am starting to lean this way as well. however there are some very good reviews on the DR as well.
> Some of the things on my mind are.
> 1. SS has been around for years which is a great thing, however I also understand its a small mom and pop shop. Will they retire soon? Will they sell to another large company with lousy support?
> 2. what kind of financing do they offer?
> 3.at the present time, DR has 0% financing for 36 months and with 2 kids in college, money is tight.
> 4. I have heard great reviews on DR customer service and it appears they are a growing business.
> 
> So there are my concerns with the big one being the financing.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Scott



You better check on that financing again. The way it looks to me is, you pay monthly payments for 3 years BEFORE they send you the splitter, in essence locking in your price. Not like normal financing payments like your car. You better check that one out again.


----------



## Hddnis

Guswhit said:


> You better check on that financing again. The way it looks to me is, you pay monthly payments for 3 years BEFORE they send you the splitter, in essence locking in your price. Not like normal financing payments like your car. You better check that one out again.




I doubt that, no one would ever use it. The whole idea of financing is instant gratification.



Mr. HE


----------



## scotte303

*Just pulled the trigger on te DR Rapid fire XL.*

Just pulled the trigger on te DR Rapid fire XL. they said about 2 weeks. my friend purcased one as well.They were able to work with us on shipping,total cost and the extended warranty. If its not all what they say it is I can ship it back witin 6 monts. full refund. no questions asked.


----------



## lmbeachy

I know from experience, you will be pleased with it, Lester


----------



## scotte303

lmbeachy said:


> I know from experience, you will be pleased with it, Lester



I have to say..I am extremely pleased with this machine. 1 full cord of wood in a little less than an hour without really killing myself..I will keep you all updated.


----------



## Como

scotte303 said:


> I have to say..I am extremely pleased with this machine. 1 full cord of wood in a little less than an hour without really killing myself..I will keep you all updated.



You will get faster with time.

To do a cord it is no real issue anyway, but if you are out there all day you realise that getting the flow properly set up makes a big difference to both speed and back strain.


----------



## KiwiBro

Como said:


> You will get faster with time.
> 
> To do a cord it is no real issue anyway, but if you are out there all day you realise that getting the flow properly set up makes a big difference to both speed and back strain.


Agreed. 
When people say I seems slow and relaxed when they focus on me, but when they focus on the wood coming off the machine it's piling up at a fast rate, well, that's about the best thing to hear. Also, regarding noise, I'm at my fastest when there's next to no noise, especially not much engagement noise. Instead the rack is engaging just after it bounces off the rubber stoppers, thus is heading in the same direction as the pinion - a silent, easy mesh (not mash) of teeth.

Flow is a great way to describe how to get the most of out these machines and at the same time limit the wear and tear on the nut behind the wheel. When I first got my SS, it became a challenge to see how much I could knock out in a day and I approached it all wrong by thinking that meant being more physical, running around like a madman. Nowadays, max production days are the ones that seems the least amount of effort. When flow is what's focussed on rather than production.

Flow also alludes to the best kind of wood for production. If you have to keep breaking flow or can't find a good flow, because of ugly wood, then don't expect max production. 

I guess that's experience.


----------



## harrybeaver

*apples to apples*

Looked at the DR then the SS. At first the DR seemed like the better deal but looking closer I think the SS is. Here is what I found:
The SS with table is $2600, the HD model is $3,000.
The DR is $2100 for the standard splitter the xl is $2600, both prices are with the production table. 
Now to break down the models to give a better comparison. The DR heavy duty model comes with 74# flywheels, the standard supersplit comes with 75# flywheels, the ss hd model comes with 100#flywheels. So the DR XL really compares better to the standard SS. Also the standard DR comes with a unkown brand engine, probably something similar to the type of engine you would find at Harbor Freight. The DR XL comes with a subaru, same as the standard SS. So when I broke down the units the DR XL and standard SS are priced almost identically. 
With the SS you get lots of years experience, excellent product reputation, and yeah I called and the owner answered and offered me answers to any and all questions.
I was hoping with DR getting into the game they would have brought something more, if nothing else better pricing.


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## CampHamp

Some facts for those comparing products.... The price for the DR right now (at the time of the above posting) is $2500 - not $2600. That includes free shipping, no "crating charge", 12-month interest-free financing, a two-year warranty (extendable to 5 yrs), 6-month trial (just pay return shipping) and you can tow the dang thing with its hitch.


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## harrybeaver

CampHamp said:


> Some facts for those comparing products.... The price for the DR right now (at the time of the above posting) is $2500 - not $2600. That includes free shipping, no "crating charge", 12-month interest-free financing, a two-year warranty (extendable to 5 yrs), 6-month trial (just pay return shipping) and you can tow the dang thing with its hitch.



I revisited the DR web site and indeed the price is down to $2500 with free shipping and the financing scheme as outlined above. While on the website I read some reviews and was turned off again. There were some really scathing reviews that said the only redeeming value was DR allowing returns.
I don't know how much shipping one of these would be and it will vary for everone based on location but you could get the SS for something like 10% more than the cost of a DR without the teething pains. Personal choice but the saying you get what you pay for seems to be ringing in my ears.


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## bower4311

First off you'll pay tax on the DR and unless you live in Massachusetts you won't pay any sales tax for the super split bringing their prices pretty close. In new York it will cost 200 in tax or 200 in shipping for the SS. Who would want a 3 year old product versus a 30+ year product that has proven reliability? It's a no brainer. Get a SS

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## lakesideC1

Something else to consider if your going electric.

You could purchase the SS without an electric motor and just add one yourself to save a few bucks, then there is also the tax free days I believe at the end of summer too.


Tax-free weekend returns to Massachusetts Aug. 11-12, 2012. During the two-day period, all purchases made in the Commonwealth totaling less than $2,500 will not be subject to state tax, which could mean significant savings in some instances. However, there are some rules and exceptions.

Go with Paul he is the man !


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## CampHamp

It's obvious that we've got some SS owners out there that love their machines and there are others, like me, who love their DR machines. We're all biased by our experience and investments. However, these recent posts seem false or misleading to me, so thought I should speak up again, even though this thread is now pretty boring from all this type of noise:



bower4311 said:


> First off you'll pay tax on the DR


I just put in a California address and DR charges $0 in sales tax. Maybe they charge in some states - I'm not going to enter them all! I didn't pay tax and my California test showed none as well...



> There were some really scathing reviews that said the only redeeming value was DR allowing returns.


I looked at the comments section for the DR (pretty cool when a manufacturer offers such transparency). People buying should read for themselves, but 12 of the 15 reviewers gave 4 or 5 stars and were very positive in many more ways than just the return policy.


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## harrybeaver

[/QUOTE]I looked at the comments section for the DR (pretty cool when a manufacturer offers such transparency). People buying should read for themselves, but 12 of the 15 reviewers gave 4 or 5 stars and were very positive in many more ways than just the return policy.[/QUOTE]

You don't learn a whole lot from positive reviews, the negative reviews are more revealing. One of the reviewers talks about their machine not working very well and the manufacturer acknowledging the problem they are experiencing and that they are working out a fix. If the manufacturer was transparent wouldn't they advertise the machine as having a problem and they are working on making it better before you buy.
Anyway I called SS again today and Paul picked up on the second ring this time. We talked about the tax free sales weekend Mass has and he is hoping they do it again this year. He will work on price with anyone buying then to make sure you clear the $2500 tax free limit. 
I am sure the DR is a good product and well backed, however I can have a great product that is more proven and more desired for the same money.


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## sunfish

harrybeaver said:


> I revisited the DR web site and indeed the price is down to $2500 with free shipping and the financing scheme as outlined above. While on the website I read some reviews and was turned off again. There were some really scathing reviews that said the only redeeming value was DR allowing returns.
> *I don't know how much shipping one of these would be and it will vary for everone based on location* but you could get the SS for something like 10% more than the cost of a DR without the teething pains. Personal choice but the saying you get what you pay for seems to be ringing in my ears.



Shipping was under $200 to Missouri 3 years ago. 

I just wish I had bought the SS many years ago.


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## bower4311

harrybeaver said:


> I am sure the DR is a good product and well backed, however I can have a great product that is more proven and more desired for the same money.



This right here. I don't understand how you can get one without tax, I would assume if I walked into a DR dealership that I would get charged tax for the instate purchase. Either way, I have heard things that can be found in this thread about problems with the DR, but I'm yet to see anyone post a major problem with the supersplit.


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## CampHamp

> You don't learn a whole lot from positive reviews


Can we ignore your positive reviews, too?



> This right here. I don't understand how you can get one without tax, I would assume if I walked into a DR dealership that I would get charged tax for the instate purchase.


We're talking about orders for out-of-state shipping, not in-store purchases.

So if you compare all-in cost for the SS jr, then you start at $100 more, then ship it for $200 (sounds low?) + crating ($35) = $335 more. If you want a written guarantee on any potential mechanical issues then spend $250 to get an extra 3-yr warranty for the DR and still have $85 in your pocket for some beer. What kind of warranty with the SS? How do you move that heavy thing around to new piles, anyway? Can I pay after a year of using the SS? Can I send the thing back if I get a lemon and just "want out"? These are real benefits for people, even if the beer sounds like the best one to me right now.


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## Steve NW WI

I've got no dog in this fight, but the concept pushed by DR - financing, returnability, free shipping, whatever else, aren't things that will even it out when the dang thing won't work. From members like Sunfish and a host of others, the SS just plain works. I'd rather spend the money on something that works than be a frustrated owner of something that doesn't, but I haven't had to pay for yet.

I guess the same mentality that makes the DR look good, despite having known flaws, is the one that has Made in China stamped on to so many of the things we buy today. I'll save money now, and spend it later when it breaks and I have to replace it. Don't get me wrong, I am guilty of this at times myself, but it's a judgement call we all need to look at whenever we're spending our hard earned money.


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## harrybeaver

CampHamp said:


> Can we ignore your positive reviews, too?
> 
> 
> I was just trying to point out that hearing about problems people have are more insightful and there certainly seems to be more problems with the DR than the SS on a whole.
> It is also bothersome to me to see the DR base model comes with a no name crap engine, it makes me believe that DR will put out an inferior product to lure buyers in with price being their primary concern. I see over the years Paul at SS has continually upgraded the engines, the base models come with Subaru engines which I have found to be excellent and the option of getting a Honda, arguably the best engine in the world. If he is paying attention to his product as this indicates where else has he made improvements?
> On a final note I have been looking through Craigslist for over a year and from NJ out to Ohio up through NY to ME there are no supersplits to be found, however in all those areas there are adds from people looking for super splits. I did see an add recently for two DR's both owned by a guy who has a firewood business on Long Island, he didn't like the DR's because they could not split knotty wood. I don't know why he didn't just return them to DR maybe DR wouldn't take them back because he is commercial?


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## CampHamp

harrybeaver said:


> It is also bothersome to me to see the DR base model comes with a no name crap engine, it makes me believe that DR will put out an inferior product to lure buyers in with price being their primary concern.


For the non-commercial market, I'm sure. Some people want flywheels instead of hydro, but cheap for the twice-a-year user.



harrybeaver said:


> I did see an add recently for two DR's both owned by a guy who has a firewood business on Long Island, he didn't like the DR's because they could not split knotty wood. I don't know why he didn't just return them to DR maybe DR wouldn't take them back because he is commercial?


I know someone who would be interested. Please send me the link or post it, I can't find it...


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## sunfish

I'm sure the DR is a good machine, but there have been some issues posted here. There has also been confusion in were most of the parts are made.

The Heavy Duty DR being comparable to the Standard (J model) SuperSplit and the Standard DR being sub-standard to the the Standard SS is goin to be very confusing to folks trying to compare the two.


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## Dozer Man

harrybeaver said:


> CampHamp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did see an add recently for two DR's both owned by a guy who has a firewood business on Long Island, he didn't like the DR's because they could not split knotty wood. I don't know why he didn't just return them to DR maybe DR wouldn't take them back because he is commercial?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DR has alot shorter warranty and return period for commercial users. I'm sure that is why this guy is selling his instead of returning them.
> 
> Did my research just like you, but I have personal experience with buying a "new to the market" product (the speeco speedpro fiasco). I'm not comparing the DR to the speedpro at all, just pointing out that they are both new to the market, and both have had there own issues.
> 
> All I know about the DR rapidfire is what I've read here in this thread. If you read this thread carefully, you will find that the original commercial users of the DR have had there fair share of issues. Not to mention, if you search the SS threads, you will find the commercial users that have abandoned the DR ship.
> 
> There is alot of information in ArboristSite, all you have to do is look for it!!!
> 
> Plus 1 for the SS j-model.
Click to expand...


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## Como

My DR has split everything I have thrown at it.

Some wood is harder to split than others, but the same nasty wood was a pain using Hydraulic.

I am not Commercial, but I have split 30 cords or so.

You would need someone to spend the same amount of money buying machines from both suppliers to do a fair comparison. From what I have read there is little in it either way.


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## CampHamp

Dozer Man said:


> DR has alot shorter warranty and return period for commercial users. I'm sure that is why this guy is selling his instead of returning them.



I'm not sure why, but would like to know as well. A friend in upstate NY wants to buy a DR (personal use) and I would like to give him this Craigslist link to see if it's a good deal (I couldn't find it)... harrybeaver - please share that link about the 2 DR splitters for sale. Did he really state that they don't split knotty wood in his sales statement? Really bizarre!


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## D&B Mack

CampHamp said:


> I'm not sure why, but would like to know as well. A friend in upstate NY wants to buy a DR (personal use) and I would like to give him this Craigslist link to see if it's a good deal (I couldn't find it)... harrybeaver - please share that link about the 2 DR splitters for sale. Did he really state that they don't split knotty wood in his sales statement? Really bizarre!



Ever since they replaced my rack, it doesn't have the ram-through power it used to. I only put straight grained through it now, faster to do the knotty with the hydraulic.


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## harrybeaver

CampHamp said:


> I'm not sure why, but would like to know as well. A friend in upstate NY wants to buy a DR (personal use) and I would like to give him this Craigslist link to see if it's a good deal (I couldn't find it)... harrybeaver - please share that link about the 2 DR splitters for sale. Did he really state that they don't split knotty wood in his sales statement? Really bizarre!



The add is no longer posted. He wasn't offering any bargain, he was asking $2300 ea. When you factor in all the other things you wouldn't get, financing, warranty, return policy etc the $200 discount wasn't worth it.
It was in the add that they were better suited to logs that are not knotty. Off the two one had 10 hours on it the other had less than that.


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## CampHamp

harrybeaver said:


> The add is no longer posted. He wasn't offering any bargain, he was asking $2300 ea. When you factor in all the other things you wouldn't get, financing, warranty, return policy etc the $200 discount wasn't worth it.
> It was in the add that they were better suited to logs that are not knotty. Off the two one had 10 hours on it the other had less than that.



Thanks - I agree $2300 isn't much of a discount. He's lucky to have sold it.

We've had no probs so far (2 yrs - 26 cord) with all the typical stuff we get in New England forests. The knotty stuff is usually softwood for the maple evaporator (hemlock/pine/spruce) and the hardwood usually has less branches/knots anyway. If I can lift it, it has split so far. Long Island (and along any coastline) you get much more wind and pretty gnarly hardwoods (lower branches and twisted trunks), so I can imagine their requirements are different. I bet he gets $300/cord there.

D&B Mack - It sounds like they messed something up when they replaced your rack. If you're running with the same RPMs and your belts are tight, then I'd suspect that there's got to be some new friction. Maybe the rack isn't running perfectly straight or the rollers or plate were seated too tight. When you slide the head out by hand, does it slide out as smooth as before the replacement (you should be feeling the springs more than anything else)? I lube the top of the I beam and the teeth every couple days of use and notice a difference.


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## D&B Mack

CampHamp said:


> D&B Mack - It sounds like they messed something up when they replaced your rack. If you're running with the same RPMs and your belts are tight, then I'd suspect that there's got to be some new friction. Maybe the rack isn't running perfectly straight or the rollers or plate were seated too tight. When you slide the head out by hand, does it slide out as smooth as before the replacement (you should be feeling the springs more than anything else)? I lube the top of the I beam and the teeth every couple days of use and notice a difference.



I tried to find the difference but could not. I was thinking they may how changed the tooth ratio of rack and pinion...they were both replaced.


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## InTheFlow

*My Rapid Fire Pro-XL is in the shop*

Well, my newly purchased Rapidfire Pro XL is already in the shop.

I used it for two hours...when it worked it was awesome! I noticed several things happening that I didn't think should be for this expensive of a machine.

It choked bad with cottonwood...would get stuck in the log and I had to use an 8 lb sledge hammer to hit the log. Then the ram would retract. Other times wood slivers would get jammed in there which kept it from returning. Not a slight bind either...I had to hit the thing with a dead blow hammer to get it moving again.

A lot of people say these machines sip gas. Mine drank a tank and had to be re-filled during that two hour session. I'm at a high altitude (6035 feet) and don't have the high alt carb recommended by Subaru yet. Even so, shouldn’t it be doing better than that?

I get a really hard kickback when using this sometimes. It tends to happen at the end of the stroke and since you are holding the handle forward, the kick hits your hand as the handle moves backwards. Imagine what it would feel like if someone took a sledge hammer and hit the lever while you were holding it forward. It hurts a little but is mostly scary.

View attachment 291996


I noticed a ‘clang-like’ sound coming from the clutch side of the engine area. Because of that noise and what I felt was poor performance, I decided to take the cover off and investigate a bit. BTW, if you ever have to do it, it is held on by 3 bolts...two at the bottom front and one at the back left. I didn't realize that until I had taken half of the shroud bolts off! :redface:

I'm both shocked and mad at what I found. Yes, sometimes things happen & I understand that. Most people do. But guys, look at how the clutch was bolted on! I expect more from both DR and their machines. I'm not here to bash them either. I have another one of their splitters and only have good things to say about it.

View attachment 291997


View attachment 291998


I never noticed the clutch slipping when it was supposed to. At least, I never noticed it happening and with the cottonwood, it certainly should have. Could that have caused the kickback? They have done some good things too, which I note in the pictures with a ‘Good idea’ message. Not sarcasm, I really think they were well implemented ideas. Even with those couple of positives, the first impression of my splitter is very poor.

View attachment 291999


View attachment 292000


A good warranty and good customer support is great to have. But the whole point of having one is so that you don’t have to take the company up on their offer. I don’t want the hassle of returning the splitter and being out the shipping money. I bought this because I wanted it to be the splitter that lasts for the next 20 years. I may have made a serious mistake. When the splitter is repaired, I’ll have to shell out for a pickup and delivery fee as I had no way of getting it to them.


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## InTheFlow

*A couple more pictures.*

A view of the guide bolts...is this correct?

View attachment 292001


View attachment 292002


A place for improvement:

View attachment 292003


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## harrybeaver

Good pictures with comments, really makes it easier to understand the issues you are having. I am surprised at the guide bolts for the rack, seems really cheap. Why not replaceable nylon or brass rollers, they could bring down the tollerances to help eliminate the sway you are experiencing. Also I would question if the rack and pinion are really in alignment with the beam if you are seeing it shift to one side on each stroke. If they are off only a degree or two you would see that on its stroke, not sure if that is adjustable?
On a different note I am still trying to digest the $3000 I will need for a SSHD. I am considering renting out the SS and am wondering about liability? I wonder if I rent it out unmodified would I be held liable for injuries? I have read that people consider these unsafe because they operate so fast but that is the point isn't it?


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## Dozer Man

harrybeaver said:


> On a different note I am still trying to digest the $3000 I will need for a SSHD. I am considering renting out the SS and am wondering about liability? I wonder if I rent it out unmodified would I be held liable for injuries? I have read that people consider these unsafe because they operate so fast but that is the point isn't it?



When Paul at SS asked how much wood I ever thought I might split in a years time, I told him the max would never go over 50 cord per year, but with an average amount in the 20 cord range. He was pretty adamant that the J-model would be fine for me. I even argued that I would probably go ahead with the HD model. He basically said that he would sell it to me if that is what I wanted, but also asured me that it wasn't necessary.

I have not regretted purchasing the J-model. I especially like having the $450 difference to use for an electric conversion some day.:msp_smile:


I don't know how much wood you intend to split, I just thought I would share this information. Good Luck!!

Edit... My SS is very tame compared to the excessive speed of the SpeedPro I had before. It consumes your attention. And trust me, once you go kinetic, you _can't_ go back!!


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## harrybeaver

I split only for myself and may loan it to friends/family. I would think 6 cord/yr would be on a high average for me. I realize that isn't a lot of wood for one of these units but I value my time and don't want to spend a lot of it splitting wood. If I could get all my wood for the year split and stacked in two days that would be great. 
I am waiting to see if Mass will have a tax free weekend again, Paul told me he would get me out the door under the $2500 tax free limit on a J model. I really like the idea of running an electric model and not having to smell exhaust all afternoon and being able to hear the birds while splitting.


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## sunfish

InTheFlow said:


> Well, my newly purchased Rapidfire Pro XL is already in the shop.
> 
> 
> A good warranty and good customer support is great to have. But the whole point of having one is so that you don’t have to take the company up on their offer. I don’t want the hassle of returning the splitter and being out the shipping money. I bought this because I wanted it to be the splitter that lasts for the next 20 years. I may have made a serious mistake. When the splitter is repaired, I’ll have to shell out for a pickup and delivery fee as I had no way of getting it to them.



That's a bummer!

If it was me, I'd return it for a refund and get the better SS splitter.


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## InTheFlow

Dozer Man said:


> When Paul at SS asked how much wood I ever thought I might split in a years time, I told him the max would never go over 50 cord per year, but with an average amount in the 20 cord range. He was pretty adamant that the J-model would be fine for me. I even argued that I would probably go ahead with the HD model. He basically said that he would sell it to me if that is what I wanted, but also asured me that it wasn't necessary.


Paul said some things like that to me as well. My concern is that the RapidFire is supposed to be a copy of Paul's J model. But it doesn't have enough power to go through large rounds. I have no way of knowing if that is because the clutch is on wrong or if there is something else going on.


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## sunfish

InTheFlow said:


> Paul said some things like that to me as well. My concern is that the RapidFire is supposed to be a copy of Paul's J model. But it doesn't have enough power to go through large rounds. I have no way of knowing if that is because the clutch is on wrong or if there is something else going on.



The J model has no problem with large rounds. At least mine doesn't. :msp_smile:


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## Dozer Man

No prob with large rounds here either. I actually cheat by loading the big stuff into the backhoe bucket. I then lift it to about table height and park it by the splitter. Biggest I've put on it was a 28 inch, butt end, white oak log without a problem. And trust me, it had some knots otherwise it would have gone to the mill.


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## sunfish

InTheFlow said:


> Paul said some things like that to me as well. My concern is that the RapidFire is supposed to be a copy of Paul's J model. But it doesn't have enough power to go through large rounds. I have no way of knowing if that is because the clutch is on wrong or if there is something else going on.



Ya talked to Paul first, then bought the DR? Makes no sense. :msp_confused:


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## InTheFlow

sunfish said:


> Ya talked to Paul first, then bought the DR? Makes no sense. :msp_confused:



Several things factored into my decision.

DRs website let me 'see' the product I was purchasing. It listed detailed specifications. Paul's website doesn't have any recent pictures or specifications to compare with.

I had previous positive experience with another DR splitter. They told me that the splitter was made in Vermont. I figured I would be supporting the US workforce either way so that was a tossup.

DR listened to customer feedback and provided a way to more easily move the beast of a machine. Even though many people have wanted the SS to have something similar, it hasn't materialized. 

DR provided an attractive 3 year financing option. That is an exceptional deal for a piece of equipment that is supposed to be rock solid reliable and last many years. They significantly lowered the risk to me by offering a return within 6 months of purchase. 

Carefully considering all of the above made it easier for me to give them a chance.


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## InTheFlow

*Rapid Fire or previous Rapid Fire Owners, please chime in.*



sunfish said:


> The J model has no problem with large rounds. At least mine doesn't. :msp_smile:





Dozer Man said:


> No prob with large rounds here either. Biggest I've put on it was a 28 inch, butt end, white oak log without a problem. And trust me, it had some knots otherwise it would have gone to the mill.



To other owners of the Rapid Fire: Have you had experiences similar to sunfish and Dozer Man's regarding large rounds or have yours been like mine? I'm attempting to determine if DR's Pro-XL model is an 'apples to apples' comparison with the Super Splitter J model.

Does anyone have hands on experience with both machines?


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## bower4311

InTheFlow said:


> To other owners of the Rapid Fire: Have you had experiences similar to sunfish and Dozer Man's regarding large rounds or have yours been like mine? I'm attempting to determine if DR's Pro-XL model is an 'apples to apples' comparison with the Super Splitter J model.
> 
> Does anyone have hands on experience with both machines?



Honestly...How would it not be? Same flywheel weight and they copied the SS. It's going to be nearly the same. There is no such thing as a definition of big rounds...big is different to everyone. Two pieces of the same tree can split differently. You're thinking of this all wrong. It's simple. The J-model and the rapid fire XL split the same. The SS will be more expensive. 1-300 I guess you could say. But the SS will for sure have less problems in the long run. That's for sure. Is a couple hundred worth that? I don't know. Everyone answers that differently. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## InTheFlow

bower4311 said:


> There is no such thing as a definition of big rounds...big is different to everyone. Two pieces of the same tree can split differently.



Very true. To clarify: My idea of a big cottonwood or elm round is 22-24" diameter 16" length. They are the biggest I have to work on, the size I was having problems with and what I'm hoping for feedback on.



bower4311 said:


> The J-model and the rapid fire XL split the same. But the SS will for sure have less problems in the long run.


Would you expand on why you say that? Have you used either of the machines?

*****************

Trent from DR contacted me today. He apologized for the problems and answered a bunch of questions I had. There is no doubt about DR's commitment to customer service and standing behind their product. He already notified the manufacturing team about the clutch problem. From that, it is obvious to me that these types of problems aren't taken lightly by DR. He also said that they want to have the best Kinetic splitter on the market so they are always looking for ways to improve it. Apparently, they pay attention when customers let them know what's going on in the real world with their product. He said that they test their equipment a lot but the real knowledge comes from the customers. 

I figure that when it comes back from the shop, everything should be set to the correct factory specs. I can determine better then how well it does or doesn't work. I let Trent know that I'd give the splitter another solid go before deciding whether to return it.


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## cypilot

*1st Day with Pro XL*

Picked up my new ProXL Tuesday night at the Yellow Freight Depot here. Guy at the dock said that they had three of them delivered Tuesday and "at least 10" since Jan 1st.

The crate is pretty big- around 7' long x 3'8" wide x 5' high, and the fork openings are set up for side loading. The dock forklift had the extra long forks, so it was no problem to put it in my p/u bed the long ways. At home though, I have a set of 48" forks for my JCB 150T track machine. Long story short, the whole crate flipped upside down and sideways while I was taking it off the truck- all my fault because I have no patience. I pulled out the chainsaw and chopped the crate in pieces, then righted the machine. As expected, no damage, except to my ego. In hindsight, I should have loaded the heavy end (motor and flywheel) toward the tailgate so that when I unloaded it, the weight would be close to the JCB. Or...just hook up the damn trailer, slide the crate out with the dump, and remove all risk.

Anyhow, after the crate mess, setup was 15 minutes, inc. putting on the table and my anal-retentive checkout. I checked all the screws, bolts, nuts, belts, etc.. and they were dead-on. Filled up the Subie engine with 30 weight, and pulled thru w/o ignition about 5 times to move the oil around a little, then filled fuel with 100 octane no ethanol, and it started right up. I ran it at idle for 5 minutes, then shut down, rechecked the oil, looked for fuel leaks (none), and checked the spark plug torque (fine).

Dragged the beast down to the back yard, started and bumped to full throttle, and in about 10 minutes, BURIED the outfeed end in split wood, mainly oak and ash, 10" dia to 18" dia. We moved the machine 4 times in 90 minutes of off and on splitting, and I'd estimate I've got near a full cord or wood to stack. Normally, with a hydraulic splitter, I'd expect this to take 3 hours off and on (I usually buck to ~8', then cut to 16" at the splitter a few logs at a time). My old hyd unit didn't have an outfeed table, which I think it the key to efficiency with the RapidFire.


A few thoughts after the first day of operation:

1) I don't think there's much this machine wouldn't be able to split. We had some big gnarly hickory rounds, 24" dia, that it blew through without hesitation- the challenge was lifting them to the table. I have a roughly 40" oak stump I'll try next weekend.

2) The little nubbies on the table are a non-event, and I actually think they help keep the big stuff under control. I was able to near-continuously feed the machine with both fresh rounds and re-splits, and never felt that they were in the way. I also didn't notice them to be particularly pointy as a previous poster did. I would NOT buy this machine without the table, unless you're fabbing up one yourself. It runs so fast that you need an outfeed device and a surface to bring your re-splits back around on w/o lifting them. The table is really beefy, 1/16" steel, good welds, and is held on by 2 sets of 4, 14mm bolts.

3) The lack of auto-cycle (like the SS) is also a non-issue, and a nice safety feature. I originally thought I'd modify the linkage to get it to auto-cycle, but again, it's so damn fast you don't mind holding the lever. Plus, it auto-retracts if you let it go. Worst-case, if your head's in your ass and you put your hand in between the log and ram or log and wedge, you just let go of the lever and all forward motion stops immediately. I wouldn't change this at all.

4) With twisty wood, you'll get some "kick-out" as the ram blows through the round, especially on a 2nd split when you're hitting a half-round. I was wearing double-fabric Carhartts with saw chaps over them, and still got a few bruises on the front of my legs. Luckily, none hit me in the jewels dead-on. That might hurt. I'm 6'0", and mid-thigh is where I got tagged. 5'8"?- wear a cup.

5) The machine is heavy, but it's pretty easy to maneuver by hand using the front post. The towing bracket is as easy as it gets. Sure, official roadworthiness would be nice, but here in Iowa I'll hang an "ag-machine" triangle on it, and tow it slowly behind my truck without too many worries.

6) We burned about 1/3 tank of fuel in 90 minutes. That's at least half of what the hyd splitter used.

7) The overall quality is what I expected from DR: that's to say, excellent. Paint is very good, flywheels were wobble-free, and the ram moved well and straight. *I'm a big DR fan*: We've had several pieces over the years, inc. a tow-behind brush mower (beefy as hell) and an elderly Powerwagon we still use almost daily. A business partner has the walk-behind brush mower as well, and I've used it quite a lot. All have performed damn near perfectly, and the DR service is also excellent. As I understand it, the flywheels and the engine are the only parts of the splitter not USA made, and they come from Taiwan and Japan, not China. I have a Ridgid pressure washer with the Subaru engine, and I've been very happy with it over ~200 hours- I think they make a very good small gas engine- similar to Briggs 20 years ago. Other than Honda (which are pricey), this is as good an engine that's out there.

8) I would like a 4 way wedge, but not all the time. I think I'm going to fab up a slip-over unit, as there's about 3/4" of clearance between the end of the ram travel and where the wedge ends now. It would cut down on re-splits, especially in nice easy-splitting seasoned oak.

9) A rain cover would be nice, but a 6x8 tarp covered it with ease.


----------



## InTheFlow

*Thanks cypilot!*

Hi cypilot. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience thus far. It is quite encouraging. I hope mine works as well as yours after it is back from the shop! I have a few questions if you could spare some answers. 



cypilot said:


> Anyhow, after the crate mess, setup was 15 minutes, inc. putting on the table and my anal-retentive checkout. I checked all the screws, bolts, nuts, belts, etc.. and they were dead-on.


Were you able to look at everything with the shroud off or did you check from underneath? Regardless, I'm glad that everything looked accurate to you.



cypilot said:


> 1) I don't think there's much this machine wouldn't be able to split. We had some big gnarly hickory rounds, 24" dia, that it blew through without hesitation- the challenge was lifting them to the table. I have a roughly 40" oak stump I'll try next weekend.



This is good news for sure! Did you notice any 'clanging' type of sound coming from the clutch side of the engine?



cypilot said:


> 3) The lack of auto-cycle (like the SS) is also a non-issue, and a nice safety feature. I originally thought I'd modify the linkage to get it to auto-cycle, but again, it's so damn fast you don't mind holding the lever. Plus, it auto-retracts if you let it go. Worst-case, if your head's in your ass and you put your hand in between the log and ram or log and wedge, you just let go of the lever and all forward motion stops immediately. I wouldn't change this at all.



Did the lever violently kick your hand back at all? DR told me that it sounded like the stop bolt on mine was probably out of spec.

The ram guide bolts on yours...do they look like the ones I showed or are they closer together?


cypilot said:


> 6) We burned about 1/3 tank of fuel in 90 minutes. That's at least half of what the hyd splitter used.


Did you fill your tank higher than the bottom of the nylon filter?

Thanks again for sharing your experience!


----------



## Guswhit

cypilot said:


> Dragged the beast down to the back yard, started and bumped to full throttle, and in about 10 minutes, BURIED the outfeed end in split wood, mainly oak and ash, 10" dia to 18" dia. We moved the machine 4 times in 90 minutes of off and on splitting, and I'd estimate I've got near a full cord or wood to stack. Normally, with a hydraulic splitter, I'd expect this to take 3 hours off and on (I usually buck to ~8', then cut to 16" at the splitter a few logs at a time). My old hyd unit didn't have an outfeed table, which I think it the key to efficiency with the RapidFire.
> 
> Pictures or it didn't happen!


----------



## cypilot

*Answers...*

I can't figure out how to reply using quotes- tells me message is too short. 
Here's the answers:

Checked with shroud on, but machine upside down after it fell off truck. No reason to pull shroud. Clutch looked fine and works fine.

Ram stop bolts look the same as yours, no side play noticed (or at least no play that seems excessive for a 25" ram that needs to engage with the pinion smoothly)

No clanging- slight dinging at idle, but I'm assuming that's the clutch pawl hitting the housing. No clanging during operation, just the pleasant crunch of split wood.

No lever kick, unless you get a piece sideways and try to hold the lever while the machine is auto-disengaging. In normal operation, no kick at all.

Filled fuel to the top.

Pics....Too much hassle- I might make a video if I can find my tripod mount and link to youtube. Nice MOG, btw. I'm going to Germany next week- always looking for one sitting in a field somewhere, just waiting for an eager American buyer with shipping abilities. We've got a lake place in MN that a MOG would be perfect for!

Misc: 
We split for 30 minutes yesterday, mostly hickory and walnut. Same great results and great speed. I did a design for a 4 way slip-on wedge, and will get it fabbed in the next few weeks. I think the machine has more than enough power to split 4 ways on easy straight-grained pieces. We'll see.


----------



## InTheFlow

*I got the splitter back from the shop.*

The shop returned my splitter this morning! 

I am going to give everything a go this weekend and post new pictures. They provided a list of what was found/fixed. For those that understand the mechanical side of the machine I'll provide the information they listed on the receipt. (DR picked up the bill for all of this, even the shop's pickup and delivery fee.)

"Found defective drive clutch (Clutch drum was bent), Found misaligned yoke bearing, Over worn guide bolts (Caused by misaligned yoke bearing), Engine mounting bolts were loose, and Incorrect jetting for current elevation*.

DR provided the shop with all required replacement parts*.

Replaced Defective Drive Clutch with New clutch, aligned engine and torqued motor mounting bolts, installed High Altitude Kit * (For Over 5000 ft). Installed new guide bolts into handle housing, correctly aligned yoke roller bearing. Unit now works correctly and all customer's issues have been covered. Unit was tested and now works/runs properly."​
After reading that, I started thinking that maybe the assembler had a really bad day or something. I'm looking forward to giving the splitter a workout this weekend!

*Note: DR doesn't normally pay for pickup/delivery to the repair shop. They also don't usually pay for a high altitude jet adjustment. I see their doing so as 'going above and beyond' for customer satisfaction.


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

*DR splitter may be fixed thank I may have mest up getting it*

Will my rack & pinion gears need to be replaecd. Call DR thay sent me the parts. Instald and a just. It chadders and will not split. Call DR now it is in thar repair shop and thay will not get to it for a week are two. I thank I shoud have got a Super Spliter HD. o will.


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## D&B Mack

BILLSFIREWOOD said:


> Will my rack & pinion gears need to be replaecd. Call DR thay sent me the parts. Instald and a just. It chadders and will not split. Call DR now it is in thar repair shop and thay will not get to it for a week are two. I thank I shoud have got a Super Spliter HD. o will.



See the pics of my problems in this thread. You probably have a bend in the linkage...it will all need to be replaced if that is the case. DR will know all the part #'s you need. I have attached the parts list as well...see highlighted.View attachment 295474


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## InTheFlow

D&B Mack said:


> ...I have attached the parts list as well...see highlighted.View attachment 295474



That PDF is very helpful to anyone with this issue, thanks Mack.
***

Update: The repaired splitter works much better than it did originally. However, there still some problematic areas. I did a video of it in use to give everyone an idea of how it works in 'real life'. I'm having issues with my editing software right now so that has been delayed. Once I have it on youtube I'll post again with observations to correlate to the video and ask for feedback from users of the RapidFire and the SuperSplit.


----------



## InTheFlow

*'Real Life' video of the repaired DR RapidFire Log Splitter PRO-XL*

The VideoReDo team came through for me so the video is uploading now! 

DR RapidFire Log Splitter PRO-XL - YouTube

This is the first time I used the splitter after getting it back from the shop. It arrived with some serious quality control issues. You can see the related pictures a few posts back.

*DR RapidFire owners:* Would you let me know if my machine works compared to yours?
*SuperSplit owners:* Does your splitter perform/sound/act like my DR? If not, how is it different?

The highlights:

02:30 - Setup chatter stops and splitting starts! 
10:02 - I had to push the ram back by hand.
11:36 - I had to push it back again. (This happened more frequently during the 2nd hour of splitting.) 
17:20 - This is what *SHOULD *happen if the handle is still fully engaged when the ram is fully extended.
23:17 - The 'rattle' I talked about is back again. The sound wasn't coming from the shroud. It was slightly different from what I originally heard from the clutch area.
28:17 – This is when the most significant 'kick back' on the handle happened (While recording). Yes, it really did kick that hard. If that is normal performance, they need to change the design.


Some improvements I hope DR (or a competitor) will consider:

1. Standard receiver hitch option. It is too heavy to effectively move by hand unless you are on level ground. If your property has a slope or hill...no offense but you are screwed. Also, if you are a 'regular' guy you might not have an ATV. I'll do a video of the current ordeal the next time I move the thing.
2. Independently movable front and rear 'Telescoping legs'. I'm 6'2'... at its normal height I have to bend over while using it. If they put an internal spring in tubes it could be made to move up and down with just light up or down pressure. Holes for hitch pins would keep them in place.


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

*Thanks For DR INFO*

THANK YOU!! Mack and Flow very helpful INFO. Mack, [I have replaced all the parts you highlighted but not #4/9/18/21 and 24. Will give the list to their repair shop, hope these parts will get it working as good as new. DR was good at getting the parts to me, but they do not know what parts it takes. After 3 times ordering I still have a splitter that will not split wood. In The Flow that was a very good video. But if my DR split wood that slow and have to hit it that many times to split firewood, DR CAN HAVE IT BACK. I will use the old splitter.


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## InTheFlow

*DR RapidFire Log Splitter PRO-XL: Muffler Failure*

I did this 2nd video to record what I had hoped would be a better day with the splitter. Instead, the muffler failed within 30 minutes!

The nasty log in this video is dried Cottonwood.

DR RapidFire Log Splitter PRO-XL: Muffler Failure - YouTube

The highlights:

03:18 - Splitting starts!
04:29 - Ram gets stuck.
04:48 - Notice the loud rattle?
07:12 - Ram is stuck twice in a row.
16:06 - Two major handle kickbacks in a row!
18:44 - Stuck and Rattle.
24:22 - Final stroke on that log.
24:42 - This is when I realized that the muffler had failed.
26:10 - I demonstrate why a standard hitch is needed.
29:15 - I took the shroud off to see if anything stood out as a problem.

I hope no one else runs into these issues but mine is going back to DR. Poor performance with this many problems is completely unacceptable. This time, DR's marketing hype isn't backed up by a quality product.


----------



## sunfish

Man, I could not live with that! At All!!! Very sorry for you guys!

My SS J model is smooth, quiet and splits Much Better!


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## InTheFlow

sunfish said:


> Man, I could not live with that! At All!!! Very sorry for you guys!
> 
> My SS J model is smooth, quiet and splits Much Better!



Thanks for the feedback sunfish. Have you split cottonwood with yours?


----------



## sunfish

InTheFlow said:


> Thanks for the feedback sunfish. Have you split cottonwood with yours?



No Cottonwood. Mostly oak, but a fair bit of red elem and some sycamore, both pretty tough and stringy. I rarely need to hit a piece twice and never three times.

I'm tellin ya, my SS is night and day difference from what I'm seeing in your videos. Much faster, quieter and smoother!!!


----------



## D&B Mack

The rattle sounds like the rack on the interior frame. Occasionally, mine does this. Mine will also kick back like you displayed, usually when a piece goes sideways and the machine is trying to split cross-cut.

However, yours does not seem to be near as fast. That chattering was a signal that I had some bent parts. Didn't think much of it at first, but got worse with time. With the linkage system, the slightest bend can allow the rack to jump off the pinion.


----------



## InTheFlow

D&B Mack said:


> The rattle sounds like the rack on the interior frame. Occasionally, mine does this. Mine will also kick back like you displayed, usually when a piece goes sideways and the machine is trying to split cross-cut.
> 
> However, yours does not seem to be near as fast. That chattering was a signal that I had some bent parts. Didn't think much of it at first, but got worse with time. With the linkage system, the slightest bend can allow the rack to jump off the pinion.



Thanks Mack. Do you have the same model as I do? Does yours split similarly to mine?


----------



## D&B Mack

InTheFlow said:


> Thanks Mack. Do you have the same model as I do? Does yours split similarly to mine?



I have the original. There was no regular and XL models, or whatever they call them now. Mine appears to be faster, but this tough to tell from a computer screen. I will say, I only split straight grained now. The knotty pieces are all left to hydraulic. It was beating the machine up too much.

Also, you have to keep close watch on the ram plate/guides. The ram sticks more when there is too much room of play. The tighter you keep it, the better it will slide. To the extent which the tolerance is too tight and causes friction of course. I quit using a piece of paper when tightening down. There was enough play left without it.


----------



## InTheFlow

D&B Mack said:


> I have the original. There was no regular and XL models, or whatever they call them now. Mine appears to be faster, but this tough to tell from a computer screen. I will say, I only split straight grained now. The knotty pieces are all left to hydraulic. It was beating the machine up too much.
> 
> Also, you have to keep close watch on the ram plate/guides. The ram sticks more when there is too much room of play. The tighter you keep it, the better it will slide. To the extent which the tolerance is too tight and causes friction of course. I quit using a piece of paper when tightening down. There was enough play left without it.



Wow, thanks for the feedback Mack. I appreciate you taking the time to watch some of the videos. I thought that since the muffler failed, that could have been the source of the rattling. But, what you say makes sense too.

I thought that these types of splitters were heavy duty enough to split the kind of wood I was giving it. To pay 3K for a splitter that only splits straight grain wood doesn't make any sense to me. 

Are there any Super Split owners who are able to split tough wood? If so, does it perform the same way as my DR? I'm just wondering if this is a limitation of the technology or possibly something else. I've just never seen a video of a supersplit going through actual gnarly wood.


----------



## Locust Cutter

InTheFlow said:


> I did this 2nd video to record what I had hoped would be a better day with the splitter. Instead, the muffler failed within 30 minutes!
> 
> The nasty log in this video is dried Cottonwood.
> 
> DR RapidFire Log Splitter PRO-XL: Muffler Failure - YouTube
> 
> The highlights:
> 
> 03:18 - Splitting starts!
> 04:29 - Ram gets stuck.
> 04:48 - Notice the loud rattle?
> 07:12 - Ram is stuck twice in a row.
> 16:06 - Two major handle kickbacks in a row!
> 18:44 - Stuck and Rattle.
> 24:22 - Final stroke on that log.
> 24:42 - This is when I realized that the muffler had failed.
> 26:10 - I demonstrate why a standard hitch is needed.
> 29:15 - I took the shroud off to see if anything stood out as a problem.
> 
> I hope no one else runs into these issues but mine is going back to DR. Poor performance with this many problems is completely unacceptable. This time, DR's marketing hype isn't backed up by a quality product.



Wow. :msp_thumbdn: Sunfish's S.S. is nothing like that. I watched him split some decently nasty Hedge or Osage Orange and piss elm and there were only a few pieces that required more than one hit and his is the standard J-Model. I still intend to buy the Heavy duty model simply so that one hit splits are all but guaranteed. I hate to say it, but my 35 ton Speeco is about 3 times faster than that DR...


----------



## InTheFlow

Locust Cutter said:


> Wow. :msp_thumbdn: Sunfish's S.S. is nothing like that. I watched him split some decently nasty Hedge or Osage Orange and piss elm and there were only a few pieces that required more than one hit and his is the standard J-Model. I still intend to buy the Heavy duty model simply so that one hit splits are all but guaranteed. I hate to say it, but my 35 ton Speeco is about 3 times faster than that DR...



Thanks for the info, L.C. Mine went back to DR for a full refund. I did see a video of the original rapidfire model going through some fairly tough wood and seemed to preform well. Perhaps I just got a lemon. 

I found out from Paul at SS that the muffler falling off is actually a Subaru bracket problem. For a while they put on crappy brackets to save money. By the time they realized the issue, they decided to simply replace them as the failures happened. I guess it was too expensive to do a recall.


----------



## Como

I have split wood that size with one pass, wonder if the engine was just idling?

The stuff that I find a pain is where the grain spirals once or twice along the length.

I am also at 10,000 ft so am down a lot on power.

A tank will last nearly a day.


----------



## InTheFlow

Como said:


> I have split wood that size with one pass, wonder if the engine was just idling?
> 
> The stuff that I find a pain is where the grain spirals once or twice along the length.
> 
> I am also at 10,000 ft so am down a lot on power.
> 
> A tank will last nearly a day.



If you get the high altitude jet installed, it will help a lot with power. The videos were shot after mine had the high altitude adjustment completed and the performance improvement was noticeable. Yes, it was worse before the adjustments were made. I asked the shop how much they would charge to put the jet in if DR wasn't paying for it and it was only going to run about $50. To keep the engine in warranty, you can't do it yourself.

I'm glad yours works well, mine must have been a lemon. The machine was definitely not idling, it was running full blast the whole time. I don't recall exactly but I think the beginning of the first video lets you hear idle vs full blast.

Thanks for your feedback, Como.


----------



## Como

It is on my list!

Seems very expensive for what is a very cheap item.

I finished splitting everything I had last year, well apart from maybe 10 40ft ers. So probably be some time before I need to get this sorted, plus my chainsaw oil pump seems to be playing up.


----------



## Kaflan

*KICKBACKS n*



InTheFlow said:


> I did this 2nd video to record what I had hoped would be a better day with the splitter. Instead, the muffler failed within 30 minutes!
> 
> The nasty log in this video is dried Cottonwood.
> 
> DR RapidFire Log Splitter PRO-XL: Muffler Failure - YouTube
> 
> The highlights:
> 
> 03:18 - Splitting starts!
> 04:29 - Ram gets stuck.
> 04:48 - Notice the loud rattle?
> 07:12 - Ram is stuck twice in a row.
> 16:06 - Two major handle kickbacks in a row!
> 18:44 - Stuck and Rattle.
> 24:22 - Final stroke on that log.
> 24:42 - This is when I realized that the muffler had failed.
> 26:10 - I demonstrate why a standard hitch is needed.
> 29:15 - I took the shroud off to see if anything stood out as a problem.
> 
> I hope no one else runs into these issues but mine is going back to DR. Poor performance with this many problems is completely unacceptable. This time, DR's marketing hype isn't backed up by a quality product.




About the kickbacks, we realized that they apear when you hit hard stuff when the ram is at the end, near the wedge. If you hit really hard stuff and the ram is going with all the kinetic force. When you only hit a small piece, but at the end or at the end but no energy have been consumed due very soft wood but at the end near the wedge a hard knot. Look how the ram bends and that makes jump ram from the pinion.

Sorry for my english, even I can not understand what I´ve written. If I explained well, just check this happens as told. Will this help you?


We own one Dr and we would like to compare how the new wedge works, could be posible to show us the dimensions?


----------



## D&B Mack

Kaflan said:


> About the kickbacks, we realized that they apear when you hit hard stuff when the ram is at the end, near the wedge. If you hit really hard stuff and the ram is going with all the kinetic force. When you only hit a small piece, but at the end or at the end but no energy have been consumed due very soft wood but at the end near the wedge a hard knot. Look how the ram bends and that makes jump ram from the pinion.
> 
> Sorry for my english, even I can not understand what I´ve written. If I explained well, just check this happens as told. Will this help you?
> 
> 
> We own one Dr and we would like to compare how the new wedge works, could be posible to show us the dimensions?



Yep, confusing as hell.

My conclusion is this...if you hold with a lot of forward force, you can avoid the violent kick backs. Why? Because you hold on tight enough to allow the clutch to slip. I think the lever arm below the pivot point is too short. If it was longer, you would be able to hold through the force with less pressure. Or, the clutch needs revised so that it can slip faster...but that is out of my realm.


----------



## Dozer Man

D&B Mack said:


> Yep, confusing as hell.
> 
> My conclusion is this...if you hold with a lot of forward force, you can avoid the violent kick backs. Why? Because you hold on tight enough to allow the clutch to slip. I think the lever arm below the pivot point is too short. If it was longer, you would be able to hold through the force with less pressure. * Or, the clutch needs revised so that it can slip faster...but that is out of my realm*.



Try a little WD-40 on the clutch once in a while. I leave the little straw on and squirt a few seconds worth to the inside of the clutch once in a great while. I do this while the motor is at idle. It helps keep it things free'd up.


----------



## D&B Mack

Maybe DR Power can jump back into the discussion here.

I posted on your facebook wall as well.

Can we get a diagram of the internals of the new Rapid Fire? What internal changes were made?

If we are still under warranty, can we do a trade-in?

I am assuming the redesign addressed some of the design issues with the first series?


----------



## Kaflan

*Call to customer service Dr.*



D&B Mack said:


> Maybe DR Power can jump back into the discussion here.
> 
> I posted on your facebook wall as well.
> 
> Can we get a diagram of the internals of the new Rapid Fire? What internal changes were made?
> 
> If we are still under warranty, can we do a trade-in?
> 
> I am assuming the redesign addressed some of the design issues with the first series?





I´ve just called to Dr power customer service, asking for an updated manual, so we can see internal changes, but it´s not available by now.

Can anybody explain why this new model has no clutch, only pulley system?


----------



## D&B Mack

Kaflan said:


> I´ve just called to Dr power customer service, asking for an updated manual, so we can see internal changes, but it´s not available by now.
> 
> Can anybody explain why this new model has no clutch, only pulley system?



How do you know it has no clutch?


----------



## D&B Mack

I just noticed in the one video, it is now a two hand operation with a safety lever...definitely don't want one now.

Some people must have cut their hands off with the first model.


----------



## Kaflan

*No clutch*



D&B Mack said:


> How do you know it has no clutch?



They told me that has no clutch.. and in one of the videos you can see something changed.


----------



## Kaflan

*Two hands operation*



D&B Mack said:


> I just noticed in the one video, it is now a two hand operation with a safety lever...definitely don't want one now.
> 
> Some people must have cut their hands off with the first model.



I agree with you.


This text has been writen thanks to my voice dictator. 


Probably you can crak easily, that was a reason for calling them . I wanted to know how it works.

But towable is a big plus. Dont you think so?


----------



## D&B Mack

Kaflan said:


> I agree with you.
> 
> 
> This text has been writen thanks to my voice dictator.
> 
> 
> Probably you can crak easily, that was a reason for calling them . I wanted to know how it works.
> 
> But towable is a big plus. Dont you think so?



I wouldn't take any additional option for the use of two hands. That will really cut production down.


----------



## Kaflan

*Wear Brass plate in DR*

Does anybody knows if the wear brass plate has been removed?

Since Dr. modified the head of the ram that now is iron cast I do not see the wear brass plate.

Was it necesary?


----------



## D&B Mack

Kaflan said:


> Does anybody knows if the wear brass plate has been removed?
> 
> Since Dr. modified the head of the ram that now is iron cast I do not see the wear brass plate.
> 
> Was it necesary?



DR emailed me the manual. It is no longer mentioned in the rack alignment section/maintenance. But it is in the trouble shooting section, so I am assuming it is still there. However, is now referred to as "bushing" and not wear plate. It may be non-replaceable.

Someone needs to bite the bullet and buy one.

I wonder if the safety lever is removable to make operation one handed again?


----------



## harrybeaver

Has anyone asked DR how long they will be supporting the old DR splitters? If I owned one I would be very concerned that parts won't be available in say 10 years from now. These splitters should last much longer than that what will owners do then?


----------



## InTheFlow

Well, it looks like they may have addressed some of the design issues I ran into. I'll be waiting a good six months before deciding if I'm going to get another DR Rapidfire though. I also will want to see and use one at a dealer first.

They refunded the money as promised so DR did right by me on the return. I've always been impressed with their customer service and support.

I hope that Paul at SS implements some type of tow feature into his design. Will make my decision on which one to purchase much easier. DR has been very responsive to customer feedback...look at all the changes they have made in a short time-frame based on their customer's experiences.


----------



## Pcoz88

The one built in Ohio is very tow able and very well built!!!!


----------



## harrybeaver

InTheFlow said:


> Well, it looks like they may have addressed some of the design issues I ran into. I'll be waiting a good six months before deciding if I'm going to get another DR Rapidfire though. I also will want to see and use one at a dealer first.
> 
> They refunded the money as promised so DR did right by me on the return. I've always been impressed with their customer service and support.
> 
> I hope that Paul at SS implements some type of tow feature into his design. Will make my decision on which one to purchase much easier. DR has been very responsive to customer feedback...look at all the changes they have made in a short time-frame based on their customer's experiences.



I don't think anyone gave feedback that would require two hand operation, like the new DR model requires. Sounds like they a responding to lawyers and insurance companies.


----------



## InTheFlow

Pcoz88 said:


> The one built in Ohio is very tow able and very well built!!!!


Not sure what you are talking about...maybe the Amish guy? If so, there is even less information on his machine than there is on Paul's SS. Hard to purchase something this expensive on 'faith'.


harrybeaver said:


> I don't think anyone gave feedback that would require two hand operation, like the new DR model requires. Sounds like they a responding to lawyers and insurance companies.


Good possibility. But, it could have been added as a way to stop that forceful kickback some of us experienced.


----------



## north1

it's just a safety measure to avoid possible liability for injuries
## This mechanism can not prevent the kickback


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## Kaflan

north1 said:


> it's just a safety measure to avoid possible liability for injuries
> ## This mechanism can not prevent the kickback



I agree with you about the kickback and the mechanism.
But they changed the position where the bearing pushes the rack, in the new model when you operates the lever, the bearing pushes after the pinion shaft. In the old model the bearing did this before the pinion in relation to the forward movement of the ram.
Could this end with the kickback?

We will see.


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## swansong75

The 2 handed safety feature may now allow the machine gain CE certification for the European market. Just a thought.

For what its worth it looks like a fairly easy system to defeat - raise the secondary handle then tape a rigid object underneath, or tie it up. For anyone intent on returning it to single handed operation this should be simple enough...


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## Dozer Man

InTheFlow said:


> I hope that Paul at SS implements some type of tow feature into his design. Will make my decision on which one to purchase much easier. DR has been very responsive to customer feedback...look at all the changes they have made in a short time-frame based on their customer's experiences.



Do a search on AS for "towable SS" (or something of the likes) and you will find quite a few simple towing mods. I did mine in thirty minutes and with a cost of $30 in material. 

When I told Paul @ SS that I only needed to tow a short distance and at low speed, he basically told me that wrecking it ain't covered under warranty.

Fyi... I went through the SpeedPro bullcrap, but I got ALL of my money back after a year of use. It pains me to read of the woes going on with the RapidFire (well, except for those of you that made fun of the speedpro guys LOL).

But I will say this, my J-model SS has no known issues...


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## Dozer Man

The "2 hand operation" is a liability release gimic...

If it's anything like the "safety button" on the side of the speedpro, you should be able to disable it in five minutes.

Disabling the "safety button" *will* release DR of any and all liability claims to the machine.
Disabling the "safety button" *will* probably void your warranty...
Last time I checked though, getting your fingers or hands cut off were not warrantee issues.
If you have warranty issues, don't tell them you disabled the safety button and save all parts to reassemble if needed.

To me it's fairly easy... complacency is your enemy. PAY ATTENTION to what you are doing.
Safety first... 
And my favorite... Don't Drink and Split!!!

It's a whole new world of splitting once you've gone Kinetic !!!
You all can attest to that at least.


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## doubleh

*Former DR owner, current SS owner*

At some point I was part of this thread and talked about my good experience with the DR. Indeed it was a good experience for about 50 or so cords of wood until we got into some dry white oak (I'm in Nevada and the oak was from California so I don't know if it's the same white oak as you'd find in the eastern part of the country). After replacing the handle mechanism three times I requested a refund from DR (which they not only honored but paid for the return shipping as well since I had some other issues along the way). That was last year and in browsing this thread I'm gathering that they've made some changes in that set-up. But the double-knuckle or double-jointed set-up couldn't handle hitting a really hard piece of wood; the damage wasn't from knotted or twisted wood. What would happen is the rack would bow up from the impact and then twist all the crap on the handle (how's that for a technical explanation?)

Been splitting several cords of the same type of the wood recently with the SS and no such issues. Also seems the rack is wider and I did get the upgraded version so I have the larger flywheels as well. As for the handle on the SS, once we quit reaching for where we were used to the handle being after running the DR, I think I like the simplicity of the SS handle better (and there's no kickback issues).

To sum, I wish I would've sprung for the few extra bucks for the SS last year and saved myself a lot of downtime waiting for parts from DR and installing them. But I do have to give kudos to DR for honoring my return request and paying for the return shipping.


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## InTheFlow

Dozer Man said:


> Do a search on AS for "towable SS" (or something of the likes) and you will find quite a few simple towing mods. I did mine in thirty minutes and with a cost of $30 in material.
> 
> When I told Paul @ SS that I only needed to tow a short distance and at low speed, he basically told me that wrecking it ain't covered under warranty.



Well, I have a problem with spending three grand on a machine of this caliber and having to modify it in order to use it effectively. It should be able to be towed. DR did it and Paul could do it too...if he wanted. He always has an excuse for not making his product slightly better. I've heard several other reasons personally and from others. I find that frustrating but it is his company. It seems he just has no interest in innovation.

DR tends to listen to customers and make available what they ask for...just look at how fast they came out with the towing kit when the very first version was released. That is impressive. I'll re-evaluate everything before my next purchase. Hopefully, DR's will be comparable quality/ability to Paul's by then and his will have additional options available. Who knows, maybe there will be an updated SS website by then too! 

@doubleh: Thanks for coming back and sharing your experience. I'm glad to hear the SS really can split the tough stuff. Once again it appears that Paul has DR licked on the quality/ability of the machine and DR has Paul licked on the Ease of purchase and important upgrades.


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## harrybeaver

InTheFlow said:


> Well, I have a problem with spending three grand on a machine of this caliber and having to modify it in order to use it effectively. It should be able to be towed. DR did it and Paul could do it too...if he wanted. He always has an excuse for not making his product slightly better. I've heard several other reasons personally and from others. I find that frustrating but it is his company. It seems he just has no interest in innovation.
> 
> DR tends to listen to customers and make available what they ask for...just look at how fast they came out with the towing kit when the very first version was released. That is impressive. I'll re-evaluate everything before my next purchase. Hopefully, DR's will be comparable quality/ability to Paul's by then and his will have additional options available. Who knows, maybe there will be an updated SS website by then too!
> 
> @doubleh: Thanks for coming back and sharing your experience. I'm glad to hear the SS really can split the tough stuff. Once again it appears that Paul has DR licked on the quality/ability of the machine and DR has Paul licked on the Ease of purchase and important upgrades.



I think they made the DR towable so it would be easier for owners to return.


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## Dozer Man

InTheFlow said:


> Well, I have a problem with spending three grand on a machine of this caliber and having to modify it in order to use it effectively.



Yes, I had that same issue... It took me a long time to decide which way to go. DR or SS. 

Buy a POS that I can tow... Been there done that with the speedpro (which the dr has slight resemblence to now)
Or buy the best known kinetic splitter on the market (for the last 30+ yrs.) and make it towable with a small modification. 

Thanks to all who posted on this thread for helping to make the decision for me.


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## bstuard

*New DR Rapid Fire model*



Pcoz88 said:


> Any body buy one yet???????:msp_confused::msp_confused::msp_confused:



If current plan holds I will return Speedpro and order th current model DR rapid fire!
Can't wait to get my hands on it. Will comment on any problems.


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## sunfish

Wow, I never expected to hear this much trouble with the DR !

Over 3 years now on my Super Split and all is well...


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## Locust Cutter

I am more pisitive than ever that a H D. Model SS is in my future. I am glad however that at least one American company still believes in customer service. Kudos to DR for that.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk now Free


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## sunfish

Locust Cutter said:


> I am more pisitive than ever that a H D. Model SS is in my future. I am glad however that at least one American company still believes in customer service. Kudos to DR for that.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk now Free



Yeah, ya have to give it to DR for great customer service!


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## KiwiBro

sunfish said:


> Yeah, ya have to give it to DR for great customer service!


It does seem like they provide excellent service, so perhaps this is the exception to the rule:
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/245963.htm

Personally, I am surprised DR consider it in their best interests to persist with the 'guilty until proven otherwise' approach that thread seems to highlight.


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## Matthew Corwin

harrybeaver said:


> Has anyone asked DR how long they will be supporting the old DR splitters? If I owned one I would be very concerned that parts won't be available in say 10 years from now. These splitters should last much longer than that what will owners do then?


Hey Beeve, In the new owners manual for the Dr Splitters it states that only maintenance free bearings are used and are expected to survive the estimated life of the splitter.. I wonder what the built in life expectancy is for the DR? The Supersplit's have serviceable main bearing blocks (zirks) and fewer metal against metal wear points throughout the machine. Mine was almost 30 years old when I sold it with no issues.


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## Matthew Corwin

Hi All, Sorry to be such a bigmouth on my first day here but I have been having issues with a DR Pro XL that I bought yesterday. After weighing what I thought were the pros and cons between the Supersplit 'J' and the Dr. I decided to go with The DR because of the bigger flywheels (DR-74lbs) over (SS-60lbs) and the much better wheel and tow bar design of the DR. 
The out the door price ($2200. no tax in NH) of the DR Rapidfire XL/electric start/worktable (reconditioned) was less than the Supersplit J with no engine and a worktable ($2494.)+ MA tax 6.25%. Soo.. it seemed like a nobrainer... turns out it wasn't.

The new DR has no 'camlock' mechanism like the SS. The SS is semi-automatic, when you actuate the control lever you can let go and the rack moves to the end of it's travel without holding onto the handle until the rack leaves the end of the camlock rollers and thereby releases the camlock and the rack springs up off of the pinion by the force of the rack lifting spring and returns to the start position automatically. The only time I ever got a kickback from my SS is when I was half-ass about engaging the camlock and then once in a while it would" just say no!"
The new DR is all about 'safety' and saving money on the design (pricepoint). They eliminated the mechanism all together in favor of a lever with a bearing on the end of it that does not go far enough back on the rack to give mechanical support ie; lock the rack down. Sooo you are the missing link in the chain. When the rack wants to come up, it's only your hand stopping it (ouch!).
Also, I am not sure why DR decided to use only one roller bearing on the rack hold down lever, it can only press in the center of the rack leaving the rack to twist a bit more than I think is tolerable. If the rack teeth are not engaged in alignment with the pinion gear it seems to me that this would cause premature wear of the R+P. Supersplit uses two large Tilton bearings (same ones as the ram side plates) to hold the rack down. I think if the rack is allowed to flex it might also contribute to the kicking problem. Oh and I guess I should mention my new machine kicks allot, it sucks, it makes it not fun.
I think that DR's design is nicer in some ways but the fact that they lightened up the construction materials and did not copy the actuating mechanism exactly makes the machine vastly inferior. There are Supersplits out there from the 1980's still working their tails off. I think the DR's will be more expensive in the long run.


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## InTheFlow

Hi Matthew. I'm sorry to hear that you've run into problems with the new splitter.  I had hoped DR's new design would have addressed those kinds of problems.


Matthew Corwin said:


> The only time I ever got a kickback from my SS is when I was half-ass about engaging the camlock.


I'm confused about this part of your post...did you have a super splitter before and no longer do? What happened to it that made you want to buy a Rapidfire instead?


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## nysparkie

sunfish said:


> Wow, I never expected to hear this much trouble with the DR !
> 
> Over 3 years now on my Super Split and all is well...





sunfish said:


> Wow, I never expected to hear this much trouble with the DR !
> 
> Over 3 years now on my Super Split and all is well...




I am on my third year with an Original Model DR. Other than not checking the drive belt more often, comes off to tell me something, I have not had a lick of trouble. Cord after cord.....Ya the no towing is sometimes a issue, so I trailer it.
If it really bothered me i'd spring for the kit. Haven't had to yet. Kick backs, yes. Ram stop, yes..all due to big knots. But it hasn't cause any mechanical issues....knock, knock, knock on wood. I remain very satisfied.


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## Matthew Corwin

InTheFlow said:


> Hi Matthew. I'm sorry to hear that you've run into problems with the new splitter.  I had hoped DR's new design would have addressed those kinds of problems.
> 
> I'm confused about this part of your post...did you have a super splitter before and no longer do? What happened to it that made you want to buy a Rapidfire instead?




Hi, New Rapidfire is going back. I think the original Rapidfire had a better control handle arrangement and did not have the problems I described with this years model. They changed it for safety reasons and they made it cheaper. A few things that stand out are the castings here and there and the fact that if you look closely at the beam you can see that it is not an 'I' or 'H' beam but two 'C' channels tacked together back to back to form a 'H'. It is lighter gauge than the SS for sure. The area between the two channels seeems to be filled with weld and ground flat but is not perfectly smooth so I worry that this will exacerbate a already known problem with this design as well.

Had an older (25 years or so) Supersplit that the first owner had not replaced the brass wear plate after many hundred cords so the ram/rack would get jammed from splinters getting under the worn out brass plate (this can happen even with a new plate but not as often and with much smaller splinters) The P.O.'s solution was to loosen up the six bolts on the ram side plates to get the splinters out and when doing so (frequently) he never re-adjusted it properly so there was some side travel and this resulted in the beam getting cut on the sides. 
It was impossible to get the correct sideplay tolerance on the ram (pusher) sideplates. It still worked ok but I like my tools to be in spec. so after rebuilding it and running about ten cords through it this fall, I sold it.
The biggest problem (for me) with the Supersplit is it's mobility, really a pita to move around the woods. I am picking up another old one from a wood guy this weekend and I think when I rebuild it I am going to try to buy the parts from DR's newer model Rapidfire to do a retro wheel and stand onto the Supersplit. 
The new unit I am picking up has the issue with wear on the top of the beam where the rack lift spring/wheel assembly had been left to drag down the beam till the wheel got square (common problem I hear) I think I might try a dual wheel arrangement to see if it's possible to straddle the groove that the old bearing left in the beam, anyone got any ideas about filling the groove on the top center of the beam?


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## sunfish

nysparkie said:


> I am on my third year with an Original Model DR. Other than not checking the drive belt more often, comes off to tell me something, I have not had a lick of trouble. Cord after cord.....Ya the no towing is sometimes a issue, so I trailer it.
> If it really bothered me i'd spring for the kit. Haven't had to yet. Kick backs, yes. Ram stop, yes..all due to big knots. But it hasn't cause any mechanical issues....knock, knock, knock on wood. I remain very satisfied.


I'm sure there are a few original DRs' out there still working. You are one of the lucky ones!


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## KiwiBro

Matthew Corwin said:


> anyone got any ideas about filling the groove on the top center of the beam?


Here is probably the most effective tinkerer of a super split machine I've come across. He sometimes posts on here. In his videos you'll find he uses followers running between the flanges rather than the lift bearing:
http://www.youtube.com/user/cucvs/videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/cucvs/videos


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## nysparkie

Into my third year with my First Generation Rapid Fire. Approximately 250+ face cord split. Maintenance, yes. Like now, I have to adjust the carriage hold downs for tolerance. Have to keep the belts tight. Light grease in those areas the book says. Machine can sit for 4 months with some Sta Bil in the tank and in 3 pulls, fire right up. NO other issues. It keeps banging away and splitting like a monster. Elm, Ash, Rock Maple, Oak, Locust...bring it on. I am 62 and have been able to keep it up and why? The height of the machine, the large splitting table and keeping the chunks in a high enough trailer I don't have to bend over a million times. 27 inch diameter stuff? Bang it and roll it then bang it again...and again.... I bought the three year warranty and don't think I will get to use it. Original return springs are still working. Original belts...lost some orange paint, has some dents in places. I don't doubt and probably can say, I know, the Super Split would have done the same. Well I didn't buy that one due to the fact of the specials the DR folks ran when this machine first came out. I most likely would have been happy with either. I bought the Rapid Fire and am still smiling.


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## morewood

Started mine up this week after sitting for 4-5 months. I did run it dry last time though. Filled up the tank, checked the oil, belts, grease, etc. Still runs great. I do just as you do. I have an old military trailer that I bring my wood down in. From the trailer to the splitter and then to the Ranger to move to the barn. Not picking up the rounds from the ground is priceless. Having the trailer there as a work table is an awesome thing. I do wish the splitter sat a few inches taller, but it ain't a deal breaker. I am glad I don't have a two hander, great to have a free hand.

Shea


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## nysparkie

morewood said:


> Started mine up this week after sitting for 4-5 months. I did run it dry last time though. Filled up the tank, checked the oil, belts, grease, etc. Still runs great. I do just as you do. I have an old military trailer that I bring my wood down in. From the trailer to the splitter and then to the Ranger to move to the barn. Not picking up the rounds from the ground is priceless. Having the trailer there as a work table is an awesome thing. I do wish the splitter sat a few inches taller, but it ain't a deal breaker. I am glad I don't have a two hander, great to have a free hand.
> 
> Shea



I am 6 ft tall and like you, wish the machine sat somewhat higher. BUT; I am still NOT bent over like I was on my 27 ton hydraulic. That and not walking around to pick up 1/2 split chunk that fell to the wrong side is a blessing. One other thing I have found. I take a 55 gallon drum and place it to my side.(Where to place it would be your preference - I like it about 30 inches away) The larger chunks that take up too much splitter table space, I place on the drum. Work the other 1/2 and just grab the 1/2 on drum and bring it over to the table. That xtra room while working a bigger piece also aids in time and back issues. I am disappointed in DR for engineering so many issues into these newer machines. They should come out with a one piece, beefed up replacement ram(Something like that). I don't care about the cam lock feature. Although mine seems to, more so now after much use, cycle through the splitting stroke without me holding the handle forward. Does it all itself. I'll be tightening up the carriage hold this AM....don't want that horizontal slop on the ram. That would cause twisting issues which can be very bad to that ram....


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## macattack_ga

Busted the roller bearing that engauges the rack on my DR (again) this weekend. 
Turns out there is a "update" available that DR is sending folks under warranty or not.

Don't know much more. I'll post pics when I get the parts.


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## nysparkie

Another season under my belt and another starting. MY DR is still all original. I have not replaced, except for a flywheel cover bolt I couldn't find after dropping, one thing on my machine. I don't know how many cords...for myself last fall, 17 1/2. Plus 10 for relatives I gave out....Four years now and I am finally out of warranty.
Hope that does not portend anything.


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## Garandman

Purchased a K55 in Summer 2014. Haven't used it a huge amount: maybe 5-6 cords. It's been flawless so far, and much much faster than a hydraulic.


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## RyeThomas

Anyone have any updates? I am in the market for a kinetic. Right now I'm looking in order at the:

Split Second- like the height of the table, size of the flywheels (90lb), free shipping, and price (all things considered, they are all way too expensive)

SuperSplitter- of course a tank but it's working height is low, I would need the HD model so it's the most expensive.

Lastly and not sure I even want to try, the Dr 34 or whatever they call the big model. I'm wondering if they ever performed another update, it's been awhile since anyone posted. The only thing I like is the lower price but I also have found you get what you pay for.
I do like the 360 day trial period, of course I have to pay for shipping/return shipping if I don't like it. 

Thanks fellas, Rye.


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## Garandman

What are you splitting and how much of it?

Wider table seems useful if you use it a lot but also will take up more storage space. For heavy or professional use SuperSplit seems to be the choice. Their HD model has 100 lb flywheels but 75 seems plenty for most splits. I'd rather keep the table low for less lifting. 

Would have ordered a SuperSplit because USA! but needed one right away and they didn't get back to me. Bought the DR on sale at the factory store in NH which closed. It looks like SuperSplit updated the website and say they're more responsive by phone. Prices seem within a few hundred of each other.


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## mesupra

Don't forget to check out the woods brand as well


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## Blstr88

macattack_ga said:


> Busted the roller bearing that engauges the rack on my DR (again) this weekend.
> Turns out there is a "update" available that DR is sending folks under warranty or not.
> 
> Don't know much more. I'll post pics when I get the parts.



Hasnt been a post here in a while...but I figured Id throw this out for anyone who didnt know, the above post is accurate...DR has an update for the ENTIRE engagement assembly.

The roller bearing on mine went "crooked" and seized up, pinned the rack in the down position and I could NOT get the handle to raise. Even after shutting down the splitter and "tapping" the handle back with an axe, the handle was actually just bending without disengaging the bearing.

Contacted DR to see about replacement parts and the service rep set me up with an entire upgraded assembly 100% free of charge...over the "chat" they have on their website no-less, never even actually spoke to the guy! Im just gonna say, outstanding service. The guy was patient while I ran in/out looking for the Serial number, and once I gave it to him he confirmed Im eligible for the upgrade, had it in the mail and showed up at my house 2-3 days later.

I installed it pretty simply, and it was a great opportunity to fully remove all parts of that "safety" lever they install on them. Im sure you all have removed it by now like I did, but I never actually removed the entire internal mechanism...I got rid of it all with the upgrade.

Its referred to as "Retrofit Kit, WR3 Handle" and comes 100% with everything you need, the only parts re-used are a few of the bigger bolts that hold it in, everything else is included and even includes a much heavier duty handle.

Anyway, Ive personally been super happy with mine and having this issue resolved so quickly by DR increased my confidence in the company/equipment.


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## morewood

Got a question for you guys. I've had the splitter apart for some work ever since this summer. I reassembled it last week with the upgraded linkage and a new pinion gear. Afterwards the rack wouldn't lift high enough to disengage from the pinion......without the linkage touching it. I bought another flat spring and put it all back together, same issue. Stacked both springs, nothing. So, I'm back to square one here. Do the rack/push plate return springs help leverage the rack over the pinion? That's the only thing I can come up with. The reason I replaced the pinion was excessive wear, the linkage was showing some bending had been going on. I can admit the set up wasn't kept adjusted as it should have been, but this one will be. I still like mine, even with the issues I've had.

Shea


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## morewood

I may have figured it out after enlarging parts diagrams and looking at pics online of the whole mechanism. I'll find out this evening after work.

Shea


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## nygrappler

Hi all, I have a DR Rapidfire Pro XL (34 ton equivalent) that was purchased new in the fall of 2012 (serial number WR2200XXX). To date, I’ve put around 300 face cords through it.

My previous experiences with the folks at DR were top notch prior to 2018. I have discovered that they sold out to Generac in 2018.

I previously replaced part of the handle/engagement linkage (old part 29448 - called “arm, bearing“) which bent And was causing the rack/pinion to not fully engage. The same part bent again. DR has redesigned this part (35259 - now called “arm, bushing”). The new part is way beefier. But, what I wasn’t told (even after asking) was that needed a bunch of other parts.

Since being sold to Generac, it now takes 30-40 minutes on hold to get a warm body. And now when you do get ahold of someone, they have no knowledge about the equipment, parts, etc. I obtained more information by researching between Jackssmallengine.com and DR Parts site. Their customer service people are looking at the same diagrams I am, but have no working knowledge of the equipment and the updates aren’t very clear.

On these machines, customer service is extremely important since there is no local dealer and no one stocks parts.

My next machine will be a Super Split.


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