# Fungus ID



## BayouTree (May 4, 2007)

Can anyone help me ID these fungus? This is on a sugarberry (Celtis laevigata). The first one is flat against the trunk kinda greyish with a white fringe. The second are two conks kinda oyster shell looking in color. The whole root crown was spongy and the decay column reached up to one of the main leaders. Just curious if either of these was parasitic and led to the failure.

Thanks


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## treeseer (May 4, 2007)

BayouTree said:


> Can anyone help me ID these fungus? This is on a sugarberry (Celtis laevigata). The first one is flat against the trunk kinda greyish with a white fringe. The second are two conks kinda oyster shell looking in color. The whole root crown was spongy and the decay column reached up to one of the main leaders. Just curious if either of these was parasitic and led to the failure.
> 
> Thanks


Conks resemble Fomes or Cerrena, but that blue color looks a lot like Heterobasidion. It looks like girdling roots--see those two big stranglers in pic #3?-- originally led to the failure, and the fungi just took advantage, after damage was done by fence building.

Unusual for Celtis to have girdling roots, since most of the ones I see are not nursery-grown.


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## geofore (May 4, 2007)

*root failure*

If I were a betting man my money would be on the fence going up is the time the tree starts to die. I'm looking at a job now that has 20 trees along a 200'Long X 7'High fence, treated wood. The trees were there before the fence went up but after the fence went up the trees declined. Two trees on the ground and 14 more need to be removed. The fence looks very simular to the one pictured, treated wood, up against the roots. Tell me did the neighbor build up dirt against the other side of the fence also? The ones I'm looking at had 2' of earth put on top of the roots on the other side of the fence killing the roots on half the trees on this side of the fence. It did not help that the fence crew nailed the fence to some of the trees. The neighbor has offered $1,800.00 toward removing the trees now that they are dying off. Not the first time I've seen the fence up against a trees kill the trees. The fence should have been futher away from the tree and off the ground/not touching the roots. The fungi comes after the fence kills the roots. By planting a fence on top of the roots expect the trees to die from root failure. It takes a few years to kill the roots but the outcome is dead trees.


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## Boa07 (May 5, 2007)

I'm quessing you guys know this but its interesting nevertheless, the two fruiting bodies orientated perpendicular to the ground were formed whilst the stem was upright (shown in red) the third fruiting body was formed after the tree fell over (yellow). I'd agree the two circled in red do look like _Fomes fomentarius_, or other _Fomes spp_ impossible to tell without view of spore layer and close up through hand lens/microscope. The later fruiting body well that could be _Fomitopsis (syn Phellinus) pinicola_, again too hard to call based on the photos.
So you could argue (perhaps not totally convincingly) that the fruiting bodies in red are the parasitic fungi and the one in yellow saprophytic. (As I said not totally convincingly since they both can behave as saprophytes and parasites on wood tissue)


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## Tree Machine (May 5, 2007)

Boa said:


> the third fruiting body was formed after the tree fell over (yellow).


That's a very good observation.

I'm at a caving event with Elizabeth, 200 Km from home and any ID guides, but what I see is a singular species. It is quite unusual for mycelium to colonize an area of the tree and then have another specie intermingled. 

The two darker fruit bodies have died and have darkened as a result. The lower one is a new fruitbody and as Boa says, has popped since the tree fell over. The colonization occurred as a result of the roots dying on that side of the tree and since that side of the tree no longer had water and nutrient supply, that area died. Don't be fooled just because there is bark there. The fungus, therefore is not parasitic. It is a saprophytic, opportunistic specie and just by the looks of the smaller one, I say it is _Ganoderma oregonense_, really common, a primary invader (first on the scene) and the mycelium runs really fast.


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## Boa07 (May 5, 2007)

Yes, of course you're right TM would be very unusual for two species to cohabit like that, much more likely to be as you say the colour change resulting from aged fruiting bodies. Not familiar with that variety of _Ganoderma_, mostly _applanatum_ and _lucidum_ here. 
Don't forget that fungi can and do change to become far more agressive and parasitic within the tissues of the tree when the volume of dysfunctional tissue becomes unsustainable for the tree system as a whole, ie when stress becomes strain.


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## treeseer (May 5, 2007)

My money (a nickel) is still on heterobasidion. P. 334 in the 2nd edition describes it pretty well.f Whatever the species, geofore's scenario sounds likely. Damage from fencebuilding created the infection court, but the girdling roots predisposed it. They are clear in the picture--amazing that the tree can stand up at all, even pre-decay.

Happy Spelunking, Jim!


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## BayouTree (May 7, 2007)

Thanks for the help guys. Fungal ID is probably my weakest subject. After looking up the suggested ID's I think the Fomes fits pretty well for the conks. As far as the one in the first picture I think the jury's still out. Heterobasidion is the same as Annousus root rot correct? If so I've only heard of this in pines.

For sure the fence caused the initial damage resulting in the failure of the tree. The bottom plank ran right against the major root flairs on that side. Its hard to tell from the picture, but either those flairs were cut to install the lower plank, or the roots broke off very clean when the tree fell. Also looks like the root crown was buried by about 6 inches of soil on that side. If you look closely at picture #1 you can see and earthworm on the trunk.

Thanks.


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## Tree Machine (May 7, 2007)

Worms are the good guys.


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## Tree Machine (May 7, 2007)

Worms tell us things, they give us clues.

Worms will only go where there is a high degree of moisture. Generally, they like crawling through dirt or humus.

If I were Dr Dendro in looking at what's happened here at the scene of this arboreal mishap, Dendro migh ask, why would a worm climb up the trunk of the tree? Was he 'dug up' when the tree toppled? Why is the trunk moist enough to welcome a worm? Did the fence builders pile dirt up the trunk? Why the long strips of callus outlined in pink?


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## Tree Machine (May 8, 2007)

Remote possibility that could have been a lightning struck tree.


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## BayouTree (May 8, 2007)

That's pretty funny TM. You should submit that to Arborist News. opcorn: I didn't inspect the tree enough to see if the area between the two rolls of callus was dead. Not for sure what caused that. It could be from the death of one of those root flairs just extending up the tree. More detective work to be done. I like figuring these things out.


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## Tree Machine (May 8, 2007)

Well, the area between the two rolls of callus is dead, that's obvious. Because it is now non-living, the fungus has invaded and colonized _just this zone._ There is no fungal evidence on the living part. That says classic saprophyte, not parasite. An excavation of simply scraping the bark back will prove that there's no cambial life between the callus rolls.


The cause? I'd say Treeseer got it on the girdling root. Either that or the fence guys cut through a buttress root, killing the area of tissue above the severed root.

Tha callus looks to be about two seasons growth. If the fence was put in two years ago, I'd say that is suspect. It takes 1-2 years between the time fungal spores land, germinate, grow, colonize and put forth fruiting bodies. You may see mushrooms 'overnight', but the process starts long before and is quite invisible to most all of us.


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## treeseer (May 9, 2007)

Tree Machine said:


> Well, the area between the two rolls of callus is dead, that's obvious. Because it is now non-living, the fungus has invaded and colonized _just this zone._ There is no fungal evidence on the living part. That says classic saprophyte, not parasite. An excavation of simply scraping the bark back will prove that there's no cambial life between the callus rolls.
> 
> Tha callus looks to be about two seasons growth. If the fence was put in two years ago, I'd say that is suspect. It takes 1-2 years between the time fungal spores land, germinate, grow, colonize and put forth fruiting bodies. You may see mushrooms 'overnight', but the process starts long before and is quite invisible to most all of us.


By George I think he's got it.


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## Tree Machine (May 9, 2007)

Dr. Dendro is my hero.


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## CA arborista (May 15, 2007)

*Help!*

Excuse me everyone if I jump in with something new. Can anyone out there help me with a fungus ID -

We have seen from one side of our county to the other a fungus that appears on the living trunk wood of Locust (Robinia), on the living branch wood of fruitless Mulberry, Live Oak, Pistachio and English Walnut. It looks like a "sap (or Cambium) fungus," whitish and shelf-like with spore gills.

What am I seeing? Can it be treated and with what? These trees have had stressors (insufficient water, improper pruning) and the fungus appears to finish the tree off.

Thanx


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## Tree Machine (May 16, 2007)

Not without a picture, better yet 5 images, closeup, a ways back, top side, underside. 

Visual is #1 in the identification process, then (and not necessarily in any particular order), site of growth (what part of the tree, limb, trunk flare, etc), what specie(s) of tree is it on, what season (time of year), what part of the country, gills or pores on the underside, living on dead or live wood, spore color and mycelium type and color. All this, and an identification guide. If you really can't get it by then, under the microscope; spore size, shape and if you really have to have absolutely, positive 'evidence' on this particular specie, or if you really think you've discovered a new specie, DNA profile.

But good images, that's the only way we can do something beyond guess.

Welcome to the site, CA.


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## CA arborista (May 17, 2007)

Thank you, Tree Machine. I will try to get those pics posted.

I think I included the info for tree type and location of infestation. The time of year would be winter to early spring. These fungi are small in size (1/2 to 3/4 inch in diameter), white in color and have gray spore gills.

Out side of a positive ID for these, is there a general treatment such as a fungicide with a surfactant? I have read a number of negative Internet postings on the use of Pentra-Bark. Because these fungi are located on the bark, I would expect the need to use a systemic, penetrating fungicide.

Can you give me some info?

Thanx


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## treeseer (May 17, 2007)

CA arborista said:


> Can you give me some info?


Sure.

There is no fungicide i know of rated to treat decay fungi.


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## M.D. Vaden (May 17, 2007)

The discoloration of the root, seems to indicate that root damage was a big part of it, possibly from digging, plow damage, livestock stomping, etc..

Not sure on the history of the land there, but it looks like the root system got "beat up" in the past 20 years or so.


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## Tree Machine (May 18, 2007)

I had that feeling, too, Mario. Death of a vertical strip up the trunk can be the dying of the roots causing that, or it can be that the dying of the roots caused the death of the vertical strip. Could be livestock chewed through bark and cambium, or quite possibly a girdling root. Mebbe a minor lightning strike.


Either way, this is the result of a process that started many years ago. Roots don't rot overnight, nor does that much cambium form in short time. If Dr Dendro were to put an estimate on it he might reply, "Hand me that sharp hatchet" would walk over to the downed tree and with two quick ninja swipes, pop out a perfect wedge.

"Here's a litle secret" Dendro says to, who was dendro talking to? Oh, BayouTree, sez, "Bayou, cambium forms annual rings, more like annual lines. You count the lines and add 1 for the year the damage happened when very little grew. One , two, three. Four years ago, _the woundwood tells me,_ something happened here." 

A soil analysis could reveal more clues as to the death of that side of the tree, but that is definitely not what this thread is about.

I'm sure most would go, "Root rot." and list that as the cause for failure. We know what's causing the decay, but _what caused the tissue to die in the first place?_


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## CA arborista (May 18, 2007)

Thanx, treeseer, that's what I was afraid of. At one site, we removed the Robinia at the property owner's request. Another site is a yard around a home with both ornamentals and indigenous species that were neglected by a renter. The last is a grove of nut trees that have been mutilated by a fly-by-night "tree service." It breaks my heart. I'll have to give them the bad news and hope for the best.


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## CA arborista (May 18, 2007)

*Found It!*

I had some time to do some on-line research and I was able to ID my mystery fungus - UC Davis had a web site description complete with photo. The fungus is "Schizophyllum commune" or "common split gill." More on-line research lead me to articles (some you have to purchase) on the effects of copper on the hyphae of decay fungi. I think I'll give it a try, to control spread if nothing else. Does anyone know anymore about this?

Thanx to everyone for your comments.


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## Tree Machine (May 20, 2007)

The thing to know about fungus is that it doesn't reside on the surface of the wood. The fruiting bodies do, but the actual working body of the fungus penetrates well into the wood, so a topical surface application I don't think will be effective, though I won't discourage you from trying.

You may want to do a little research on the toxicity of copper to trees.

_Schizopyllum_ is very common, just about everywhere, often the first on the scene when wounding occurs. It is a saprophyte, but can affect other localized living tissue of the tree if it is stressed or in decline, making it an opportunistic parasite, but not a truly parasitic fungus. Parasitic fungi are thankfully rare within the family of the decay fungi.


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## CA arborista (May 20, 2007)

*Copper compounds*

Thank you, again, Tree Machine -

I did do more research. I found a study from Lithuania on "Schizophyllum commune" that had infested Little Leaf and Broad Leaf Linden and Norway Maples in a specific population. The bar graph included in the study emphasized the nature of this fungus, described as "saproparisitic" in other articles. (The explanation that you gave.)

I also found that copper comes in both copper sulfate, used in "burgundy" and "bordeaux" mixtures used in vineyards commercially to control mold (fungus) spread, (this is very toxic to humans and all precautions were emphasised) and as copper ammonium in a commercial "over-the-counter" fungicide.

I also realize that the hyphae of the fungi reside in the cambium tissue, I would imagine very much like the roots of ivy that have killed a tree parasitically, as an illustration. This is why I asked about using a surfactant. Copper ammonium is sold at the local horticulture materials seller and manufactured by a company that also distributes a surfactant manufactured by a different company. This particular product is advertised as safe for fruit and nut trees.

What do you Know?

Thanx again.


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## Tree Machine (May 20, 2007)

CA arborista said:


> the study emphasized the nature of this fungus, described as "saproparisitic" in other articles. (The explanation that you gave.)


Thank you for bringing that word forward.



CA arborista said:


> I also found that copper comes in both copper sulfate, used in "burgundy" and "bordeaux" mixtures used in vineyards commercially to control mold (fungus) spread, (this is very toxic to humans and all precautions were emphasised) and as copper ammonium in a commercial "over-the-counter" fungicide.


Fungus comes in two flavors; The _fungi imperfecti_ and the _fungi perfecti_. Fungi imperfecti are things like rusts, smuts, yeasts, molds and mildew. These grow on the surface of leaves and never really form a 'fruiting body', though they do, only it's a microscopic ordeal. I think this is what the copper ammonium sulfate is for.

The _fungi perfecti_ are generally saprophytes (live on dead and decaying matter). They form visible fruit bodies that release spores. But it is not the visible mushrooms that are the problem, the're just a visual indicator, a clue, that tells us that fungus has invaded. The fungus has to go through it's full life cycle, and the formation of the fruiting bodies and the release of the spores are the final steps in the cycle. The first is the spore.

When a tree is wounded, a spore that happened to land there germinates, the result of that germination are tiny, white filaments. They grow and branch, the leading tips oozing out powerful enzymes and as the wood is 'digested', energy is taken into the fungal body and it grows. When the network has grown throughout the wood and reached a mature size, the fungal network puts forth fruiting bodies, known commonly to us as mushrooms.




CA arborista said:


> I also realize that the hyphae of the fungi reside in the cambium tissue


Not true. The cambial layer is really thin, there's not a lot of food value there, though some. The fungus goes for the sapwood and the heartwood, builds itself up with it's ever-branching filament body, collectively know as _mycelium_. The mycelial network feeds on into the exposed wood. WHen it gets to a certain mass, it has the ability to send forth fruiting bodies. Once the mushrooms appear, that tells us that the mycelial network has colonized the zone.

After fruiting and sporulating, mushrooms generally die, though the mycelial body that put them forth continues to digest wood and make itself bigger inside the wood. And the cycle continues.

Welcome to soils 101.


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## Boa07 (May 21, 2007)

Very succinctly put TM, CA bordeaux mixture will have no significant impact on your fungi since it is not one of the rusts, smuts, yeasts, molds and mildew Tm mentions. I would argue that your best course of action is to focus your efforts on improving the general health of your tree(s) to enhance their own internal defensive actions. You could if you have the finance and the motivation invest in antagonistic fungi competitors and apply these along with a specifically selected compost tea for the particular tree and its soil food web.

But as TM has alluded to, by the time we see the fruiting bodies it is often a little late to do more than prolong the final stages of the troubled relationship between pathogenic fungi and tree.


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## Tree Machine (May 21, 2007)

> ... rusts, smuts, yeasts, molds and mildew. Very succinctly put TM, CA bordeaux mixture will have no significant impact on your fungi


That treatment is for surface applications. Our decay fungi are deep drillers.


> I would argue that your best course of action is to focus your efforts on improving the general health of your tree(s) to enhance their own internal defensive actions.


I would argue alongside Boa. Optimize tree condition.


> the time we see the fruiting bodies it is often a little late to do more than prolong the final stages of the troubled relationship between pathogenic fungi and tree.


Actually, _pathogenic_ means disease-causing. Fungus rarely _causes_ a disease, rather it is there as the primary decomposer when it comes to breaking down wood. If you see a dead limb on a walnut and after a rain you see the whole thing is covered in _Auricularia polytrica_, you can't assume the tree is infested with fungus. We can accurately say, _the limb is colonized with fungus_. This is a completely normal part of nature and it's been going on for millions, possibly billions of years. Fungal Biology 101.

People often peg fungus as the bad guy, but it's just doing what it does; _seeking out dead wood, inhabiting it, and eating it_. If we better understand what fungus fundamentally does, and why, better assessments can be made.

Below is a pic of *mycelium* how the hyphae (individual strands) branch out in different directions. Look close you can see the site where the spore germinated.


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## Boa07 (May 21, 2007)

You're right TM pathogenic was a poor choice of adjective...desperation of a tired and emotional mind!!

I really have a bit of a passion for fungi, and don't regard tem as any sort of enemy at all. In fact there are a growing number of very skilled Arborists, mostly in UK who are beginning to change the way we view trees, particularly Veteran trees, describing and working on such trees with very high regard for the fungi that colonise them. Sometimes these fungi are seen as the reason for retaining such veterans, so rare are they. 

I personally feel that this the most realistic way to percieve all trees; as organisms deeply and complicately connected to many trophic levels in the ecosystem they are part of. By gaining an understanding of that complexity we can really begin to apply PHC in its most effective sense.


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## CA arborista (May 22, 2007)

Thank you for the collective feed-back. 

Yes, I am aware of the physiology of fungi and their life-cycle. The extended explanation about the use of available ammonia fungicides is consistent with what I have read.

We have been supporting these trees, first, with organic fertilizer, and just this past month with a commercial grade fertilizer that delivers immediate and then sustained (slow release) 14-14-14 with micro nutrients.

I appreciate the "Zennist" arboricultural view of trees and the varied life forms that benefit from them, although I don't agree with the concept to the point of subjugating the interests of higher life forms to those of lower life forms. (Does this make sense?)

None-the-less, it's been a great discussion and I appreciate the knowledge shared. Thanx, again.


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## Tree Machine (May 23, 2007)

CA arborista said:


> Thank you for the collective feed-back.
> 
> I appreciate the "Zennist" arboricultural view of trees and the varied life forms that benefit from them, although I don't agree with the concept to the point of subjugating the interests of higher life forms to those of lower life forms. (Does this make sense?)


I get that you appreciate the Zennist arboricultural view, but the next part is sorta confusing..... you don't agree with the symbiotic biological relationships between different life forms in the codependent interactions of life amongst the species? Like a network, a web, a successive cascade of microbial players, each giving and receiving in a mutualistically beneficial relationship that promotes this thing called....LIFE!

Biology is the most important part, CA. I'm not sure where Zen views came in at all.


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## Boa07 (May 23, 2007)

CA, I don't mind being labled as Zen like, I'm not though as anyone who's met me would attest to. 

I didn't write those remarks about the relationship between tree and fungi to be smart or new age it happens to be what is going on in every single tree we work on whether in Oz or US, whether the tree is alive or dead or somewhere inbetween.
What Arborists who are lucky enough to work on veterans have been able to learn is valuable to us all, recognising that fungi are present in wood tissues more often than not, and the role they are able to play is determined as much by the state of the tree as the particular label we apply to the fungal species. 

We (as in all of us not you CA) can keep pumping chems onto and into the trees and soil and think we doing the best we can, but for me it flies in the face of what we have learnt in the last 20yrs.

Couldn't agree more with TM



> a network, a web, a successive cascade of microbial players, each giving and receiving in a mutualistically beneficial relationship that promotes this thing called....LIFE!


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## Tree Machine (May 23, 2007)

Boa07 said:


> I didn't write those remarks about the relationship between tree and fungi to be smart or new age it happens to be what is going on in every single tree we work on whether in Oz or US, whether the tree is alive or dead or somewhere inbetween.


 That is pure, man, that was poetic.


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## CA arborista (May 23, 2007)

Hello, all of you, sans me -

Forgive me for not being more specific in my reference to "higher life forms." I was referring to the property owner. This man planted the trees for his children who grew-up and moved away, his wife died of cancer, and some guy posing as a "tree service" killed eight Pistachio trees and mutilated the remaining Pistachio, Almond, and Walnut trees. As a small business owner and arborist I have a responsibility to both the property owner to explore any possible way that I can help him with the restoration of his nut tree grove while respecting the natural reality of the trees and all other organisms.

That's why I came to you guys for help, respecting your experience and knowledge. The reference to Zen wasn't meant as a slam but only a reference - the difference between the holistic and mystical view of the universe and the 'man against nature' (typically in Western thought) approach to living things. As you can tell, I'm into philosophy and religion as well as trees.

I wish you all the best.


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## Boa07 (May 23, 2007)

> (as in all of us not you CA)



Should have read


> as in all of us not just you CA


ah well....:computer2:


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## CA arborista (May 25, 2007)

Hey, Boa07 -

Thank you for the corrected typo. You made my day.

Here's to the beneficient nature of the Universe (trees included)!


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