# Stihl yellow label vs green anti-kb chain



## MoJ (Jul 27, 2007)

I stopped by a Stihl dealer to pick up a chain and later discovered he had sold me a "yellow" label chain. It has a warning on the back about being capable of severe kickback and also points out that Sthil "green" label chains are available for low kickback. I believe my other two chains are green label. 

Do you recommend the yellow label chains for homeowners or should I play it safe and not use it? 

Thanks


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## rreidnauer (Jul 27, 2007)

*Just My Opinion . . . . .*

but there's nothing wrong with you using yellow label chain. Kickback only happens when you get the top part of the tip of the saw bar against wood. That causes the teeth to grab, and slightly push the saw towards you, making them bite even harder, and the result is the bar is kick up and at you.

The solution to avoiding that is simple. Keep the tip out of the wood. And don't think lowkickback chain can't do the same, as it can, but is slightly less likely.

Saw safe, and you'll be safe.


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## GASoline71 (Jul 27, 2007)

The "yellow" stuff will be fine as long as you just cut safe.

I honestly think the "green" labels can lull some people into a sense of false security that it "can't" or "won't" kick back. 

Gary


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## adkranger (Jul 27, 2007)

GASoline71 said:


> The "yellow" stuff will be fine as long as you just cut safe.
> 
> I honestly think the "green" labels can lull some people into a sense of false security that it "can't" or "won't" kick back.
> 
> Gary



Yup, awareness of your tip at all times is your margin for safety.

While "green" labeled chain does have an effect on the severity of a KB, it's more about limiting liability for Stihl than anything else. I have actually heard of a dealer that refuses to sell the yellow stuff to non-pro users. Had to go buy a couple loops for a friend, felt like I was buying booze for a minor.  But overall not a bad idea to have an easy to understand color coding system.

MoJ; you'll be fine with the "yellow" if you use your head and use safe saw techniques. Plus you'll love the way it cuts.


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## gasman (Jul 27, 2007)

Kickback can and will occur with green chain. So to rely on green chain for safety doesn't make sense. In my opinion the safety should come from avoiding habits that lead to kickback, and always keep body parts out of the kickback zone.


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## RED-85-Z51 (Jul 27, 2007)

"anti- Kickback" and "Reduced kickback" are nice terms, but they imply only that measures are taken in the design to make it less likely to snag and kick back...NOT THAT IT CANT OR WONT.

The only devices I know of that PREVENT and ELIMINATE kickback are the sheilds that some manufacturers sell that cover the tip of the bar.

1. you never cut with the tip of the bar anyways, so the only time it would inconveinience you is if you were cutting THROUGH a tree larger than your bar is long. The PRO would be no chance of kickback.

I installed the tip covers on BOTH Echo CS-370's I setup for my dads employer a few weeks ago. Inexperienced operators absolutely benefit from them, and experienced operators get to concentrate MORE on the job at hand without having to worry about the bar tip.

Unfortunately people look at them as "training wheels" and throw them out...Ill never understand this.


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## weatherby guy (Jul 27, 2007)

MoJ said:


> I stopped by a Stihl dealer to pick up a chain and later discovered he had sold me a "yellow" label chain. It has a warning on the back about being capable of severe kickback and also points out that Sthil "green" label chains are available for low kickback. I believe my other two chains are green label.
> 
> Do you recommend the yellow label chains for homeowners or should I play it safe and not use it?
> 
> Thanks


I am another newbie and can offer my perspective. Mine might be a bit more valuable as I have crossed the bridge that you are now at. I started out with an MS 660 as my first real chain saw (a few months ago). Many on the board were quick to jump on the fact that starting with such a large saw was esentially a recipe for diaster.....etc.

I have used green and yellow chain. The yellow chain cuts better. However I have noticed no real benefit from a kick back perspective. If you put the tip in the right place or start plunge cutting with experience the saw is going to come back at you independent of the chain you are running. If you are seasoned chainsaw user all I would say is wear chaps and other PPE. Don't lean or look over the bar when you cut.....assume the recommended stance....things you probably already know.

IF you are a new user as I was, spend some time with somebody who has had a saw in his hands either to make a living or somebody with a lot of hours using one. IMO PPE coupled with time with a pro makes exponentially more of a difference than any perceivable difference one might gain from a less aggressive chain.

Be safe and have fun.


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## Brushwacker (Jul 27, 2007)

Hold on and use the bottom of the bar . The top half of the tip is the most dangerous . Do not use this area to cut with. The depth gauges are actually going away from the tip ahead of the cutter allowing the cutter to take a deep grab in that area. The back of the hump in a safety chain is designed to portrude out as it rounds the tip reducing the depth the cutter can grab. Of course it still can grab it just normally will not allow the cutter a deep bite. Do not assume your circumstances are normal, as the saw can still kickback and in a hard knot or say you hit an hard object in the wood such as a nail etc. kick back can still be severe.
If you use the whole length of the bar (green lable )you probably will notice it cutting slower toward the tip then non safety (yellow). Any thing behind the curve in the tip is affected little.


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## logbutcher (Jul 28, 2007)

*Kickbacks and Plunge Cuts NEKKID*

All correct: that top front of the bar is the danger zone. We've used both the Stihl yellow and green for all felling, they have advantages depending on conditions: hard/soft woods, dirt, limbing, bucking, etc.. Plunge cuts are even fun once you get it down. Mandatory very sharp chain as always. I start plunges with the lower part of the bar tip at WOT.

It's the user.....except for those PNW boys  , that love to cut nekkid  :censored: .....like Msr. Gary :jawdrop: And of course, quite very big bars in the 40" and over range  . Whew.......


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## Wood Hick (Jul 28, 2007)

Yellow chain cuts faster, the dealer sold you a good chain. Listen to all previous posts above, they are right on. Green chain promotes a political falsehood that you can't get hurt while using it, total bull. Take advice from he who uses it, not he who promotes it!


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## wood rat (Jul 28, 2007)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> "snip
> 1. you never cut with the tip of the bar anyways, so the only time it would inconveinience you is if you were cutting THROUGH a tree larger than your bar is long. The PRO would be no chance of kickback.
> snip.




I make plunge cuts a lot ?


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## logbutcher (Jul 28, 2007)

*Plunge*



RED-85-Z51;725047The only devices I know of that PREVENT and ELIMINATE kickback are the sheilds that some manufacturers sell that cover the tip of the bar.
1. you never cut with the tip of the bar anyways said:


> Except for those tiny tiny poles, we use plunge cuts felling consistently.
> Why? Control of the hinge, slots for wedges ( no, not "wedgies" you fool  ) ,
> and when the saw exits the cut in a simple cut, you AND the saw are ready to escape the tree safely. You do plan your cut don't you ? Sometimes I'll leave a small holding piece of wood to hold the fall until the wedges are hammered home, then a qick slice and move away from the tree. More control. It takes some practice and a good, sharp chain.
> 
> ...


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## RED-85-Z51 (Jul 28, 2007)

Average homeowner isnt going to be doing alot of plunge cutting, 

Obvisouly if you do plunge cutting, you would need to remove the tip guard. But for limbing, and such, a tip guard makes like safer. 

Dont want to use, you dont have to, BUT for limbing, and dropping small trees 15-18" at the stump, Id use it in a heartbeat.

It only has to happen once and THATS IT. If you dont need to entire length of the bar, and can spare a couple inches at the end, why not eliminate the risk of kickback?


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## logbutcher (Jul 28, 2007)

*Safety=Training + Experience + Brains*



RED-85-Z51 said:


> Average homeowner isnt going to be doing alot of plunge cutting,
> 
> Obvisouly if you do plunge cutting, you would need to remove the tip guard. But for limbing, and such, a tip guard makes like safer.
> 
> ...



No device that gets in the way of working safely is a substitute for what's in the skull. Learn what causes kickback. Understand the mechanics of the danger and how to deal with kickback. e.g a chain brake in operating order, complete PPE :spam: , cutters sharp and even, rakers correct, etc...

So: why don't the manufacturers of the fine saws use "tip guards" ? 
We don't know no "homeowners" or Pros who cut with a tip condom. "We don't need no stinkin tip guard."

Kickback can happen at any part of the chain, not just at the tip. That "tip thing" is only false protection......like saran wrap for @#$%&*@. :censored: 
Yes, you want to use it, fine. You're dismissed. So am I.....


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## RED-85-Z51 (Jul 29, 2007)

logbutcher said:


> No device that gets in the way of working safely is a substitute for what's in the skull. Learn what causes kickback. Understand the mechanics of the danger and how to deal with kickback. e.g a chain brake in operating order, complete PPE :spam: , cutters sharp and even, rakers correct, etc...
> 
> So: why don't the manufacturers of the fine saws use "tip guards" ?
> We don't know no "homeowners" or Pros who cut with a tip condom. "We don't need no stinkin tip guard."
> ...



Kickback is when the cutting teeth on the chain, near the top of the tip of the bar grab into a peice of wood, and snap the bar upwards. A chainbrake helps, but the bar and chain is still snapped up, and you can only hope that it snaps hard enough for the brake to catch. If it hooks on the bottom of the chain, it pulls the saw forward, not a problem. If it hooks on the top of the bar, it pushes the saw backwards, this is only a problem if it stays hooked until the end of the bar passes, and gives the saw an upward motion. Dont give the end of the bar the ability to touch wood, you take away the ability of the saw to get that upward snap.

Ill admit, Ive done alot of firewood cutting, and Post-Hurricane cleanup, Ive never used a tip cover, nor AK chain, I primarily used a Top handled saw with no chain brake. Ive got wicked strong arms and keep a tight grip on the saw, Ive never experienced kickback, Ive never felt the saw have a tendency to kickback. My newest saws, the ones Ive gotten in the last 2 years, mostly have chain brakes, A couple have AK chain, all are rear handled saws...I havent really done a day of cutting with one of them yet, but I have used them, and none of them felt "unsafe" witohut a tip cover..

But I know full and well that If Im limbing, and the tip of the bar comes n contact with wood, I need to be prepared for the consequnces.


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## musch (Jul 29, 2007)

Although there is a time and a place for everything (including non-kickback chain) It just simply sucks most of the time.
You will be amazed at the response of a pro- (aka) non safety chain.
In my experience, the full or semi chisel stuff digs in faster cuts better, and the whole dang saw just seems to feel better.
I have to assume that although there are a lot of "homeowners" out there, there are many more regular pro users, and the saws themselves are engineered with the torque, acceleration and power range to utilize the "real" stuff.
Simply stay out of the path of kickback, and be aware of it. I don't really see it being that big of an issue, especially if you are staying on the ground.


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## logbutcher (Jul 29, 2007)

*Wicked Whaaaat ?*



RED-85-Z51 said:


> Kickback is when the cutting teeth on the chain, near the top of the tip of the bar grab into a peice of wood, and snap the bar upwards. A chainbrake helps, but the bar and chain is still snapped up, and you can only hope that it snaps hard enough for the brake to catch. If it hooks on the bottom of the chain, it pulls the saw forward, not a problem. If it hooks on the top of the bar, it pushes the saw backwards, this is only a problem if it stays hooked until the end of the bar passes, and gives the saw an upward motion. Dont give the end of the bar the ability to touch wood, you take away the ability of the saw to get that upward snap.
> 
> Ill admit, Ive done alot of firewood cutting, and Post-Hurricane cleanup, Ive never used a tip cover, nor AK chain, I primarily used a Top handled saw with no chain brake. *Ive got wicked strong arms and keep a tight grip on the saw, *Ive never experienced kickback, Ive never felt the saw have a tendency to kickback. My newest saws, the ones Ive gotten in the last 2 years, mostly have chain brakes, A couple have AK chain, all are rear handled saws...I havent really done a day of cutting with one of them yet, but I have used them, and none of them felt "unsafe" witohut a tip cover..
> 
> But I know full and well that If Im limbing, and the tip of the bar comes n contact with wood, I need to be prepared for the consequnces.



Oh yeah, those strong arms and tight grip work every time  . 
Maybe with Homelite, McCulloch, Remington :taped: , try it with a 372 or 440........no big strong arms or tight whatever is gonna hold opcorn: . Can you spell *TORQUE ?*
Ah yes, the immortality and all-knowing of da youth


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## GASoline71 (Jul 30, 2007)

Is plunge cuttin' like bore cuttin'? If so, I have got to try this cut... it sounds like all the rage...   opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: 

Gary


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## Griffbm3 (Jul 30, 2007)

*Arms vs Kickback?*

Whatever... I would have to say proper positioning of your left thumb around the handle, and standing to the side (ie, not watching the "amazing" chain cut through the wood from above it) is more important than a tip guard could ever be. I have to agree about it being a false sense of security, kind of like wearing a ballistic vest in my profession. The only time I have ever gotten my a$$ handed to me by a patient has been when I wore a vest, but that's besides the point.

About the chain, I have to say the Stihl yellow is great chain, but if I am cutting top wood from a previous logging operation, and the wood is dirty from skidders and erosion control, I use the green chain in the "dirty" wood. Doesn't dull as fast.

Cut safe, enjoy your arms, otherwise they look really strange on the ground next to you...

Jason


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## xxl (Jul 30, 2008)

yellow chian is faster tried my friends 260 it smoked my 026 with green chain just be smart


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