# Problematic MS661



## blsnelling (Jul 24, 2015)

We have seen at least a few instances of "tuneability" issues with MTronic saws. One thread in particular stands out on the 661. That was Funky Sawman's saw. Yesterday, my 661 started stumbling and hesitating coming off idle. Actually, it's in the hands of another member. I have never experienced issues like this with a 661. They have always had lightning throttle response in my experience. The first thing I thought of was the module on the carb. Isn't that the part people have been replacing real cheap, for something like $15? Then I went in Funky's thread and see where they replaced his ignition module and intake boot. Now I'm confused. Can anyone clear this up for me? Thanks in advance.


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## Moparmyway (Jul 24, 2015)

I followed that thread and IIRC, the ignition module is what actually was replaced when the problem went away. I believe the intake boot and carb solenoid were changed and the saw still had the problem


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## Mastermind (Jul 24, 2015)

Carb solenoid and coils are all I've ever had to replace on any M-Tronic saws Brad.


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## blsnelling (Jul 24, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Carb solenoid and coils are all I've ever had to replace on any M-Tronic saws Brad.


We're thinking it's the coil, i.e. Controller. The porting in it is tested and proven with nothing but lightening quick throttle response. Never a hint of a stumble, not in any 661 I've done. It sounds exactly like Funky's as well, which was fixed with a coil.


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## Chainsaw Jim (Jul 24, 2015)

The Stihl shop next to me received their 661's late because of a coil issue. I don't know if it was an actual recall, but it was something Stihl had to remedy. There is also a problem with the 661 bogging under load if you use the pre filter wrap on your air filter.


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## coltont (Jul 24, 2015)

My 661 is 8 months old and has had two solenoids so far. When they go bad they get hard to start and won't open to WFO. Sloppy on the trigger coming off idle to. 

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## coltont (Jul 24, 2015)

It pisses me off when you lug it all the way down to where your cutting cause you don't want it getting bashed to bits in the skidder and you go to use it and you might as well have carried a hack saw down to the timber with you.

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## Four Paws (Jul 24, 2015)

Sorry to hear that Brad, hopefully it is still under warranty. 

Looks like Stihl hasn't successfully replaced the 066/660 yet. You know what they say though, "third time is a charm".


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## Mastermind (Jul 24, 2015)

I've ported 16 MS661s. I'm yet to hear back from any owner that has had a serious issue. 

Well.......there is that guy in Canada that won't stop using crap oil.


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## coltont (Jul 24, 2015)

Randy when can I get mine to you. If you say jump how high?

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## Mastermind (Jul 24, 2015)

I can set you a date in Dec. Normally I don't do too many saws that month........shipping gets worrisome..


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## coltont (Jul 24, 2015)

Man my 660 is making a nice dry sound in the bottom end and the crank now has a little play in it. I guess 19 months worth of big timber killed it.

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## Mastermind (Jul 24, 2015)

What oil ratio did you use in it?


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## Trx250r180 (Jul 24, 2015)

Crush it ....


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## coltont (Jul 24, 2015)

I don't choose the ratio. Company saw that I try and treat like my own. 50:1. Bearing melter ratio. Crush it? It's not in the woods long enough to crush it or I'd have tried. 

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## coltont (Jul 24, 2015)

I killed 11 loads like this with it from Monday to Thursday 


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## Mastermind (Jul 24, 2015)

Yeah......40:1 is the way to go on a worksaw. That 50:1 bullspit is EPA crap.


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## blsnelling (Jul 24, 2015)

Here's the saw guys. Notice how throttle response is right on until about the 3:15 mark. Then at 3:28, it probably would have died had ne not let off the throttle. Of interest, it's way improved over what it was doing yesterday. My opinion, is that the saw is running too rich, both at idle and at WOT, causing an off idle bog. If this thing had a L needle, I think an 1/8 turn leaner and it would run perfectly.

I'm also curious how pig rich the saw is for the first several minutes. It won't even clean up under heavy load at first! It does get better, but is still quite rich. I'm amazed the RPMs this thing is making under load, despite running so rich. Once we get this thing sorted out, it's going to be a monster 

*Most importantly, are these the symptoms you guys have seen that had defective coils and trigger units?*


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## porsche965 (Jul 24, 2015)

Don't worry about the richness. I've been through quite a few Mtrons and it seems to be built into their software and as they progress towards tank 8-10, depending on the work loads etc. they really start to turn on. Some of the slowest fourstrokers I've had become the fastest runners in time. And the others just keep getting better. 

If my memory serves me correctly Ford had this same set up for their diesels. Wouldn't run full out until a certain mileage was met. This was 8 years ago or so and I just can't remember exactly how that worked but friends had them and they all experienced the same thing.


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## blsnelling (Jul 24, 2015)

I have a path planned moving forward, but would love to hear some input before putting that out there.


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## big t double (Jul 24, 2015)

The path I have planned is to never arm wrestle the guy in that video.


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## blsnelling (Jul 24, 2015)

big t double said:


> The path I have planned is to never arm wrestle the guy in that video.


I'm laughing out loud  You are certainly right. He throws that 661 around like I might a MS 260, lol.


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## big t double (Jul 24, 2015)

I can't even start an ms170 like he starts that 661. Ok...back to your thread. Sorry.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Jul 25, 2015)

big t double said:


> I can't even start an ms170 like he starts that 661. Ok...back to your thread. Sorry.



Quit usin your vagisil and maybe you could.


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## coltont (Jul 25, 2015)

Brad the stumble that saw had coming off idle is from the solenoid.

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## big t double (Jul 25, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Quit usin your vagisil and maybe you could.


You silly. The vagisil is for keeping my vagina fresh. It does nothing to inhibit my already feeble upper body strength. So strike one sawmikaze. Now back to blsnellings stumbling 661!!


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## imagineero (Jul 25, 2015)

What do you do with all the cookies Brad?


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## angelo c (Jul 25, 2015)

coltont said:


> Man my 660 is making a nice dry sound in the bottom end and the crank now has a little play in it. I guess 19 months worth of big timber killed it.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



19 months of big timber??
I'd say somebody got their moneys worth....


a bottom end rebuild on an 066? case of beer and $75 bucks worth of seals and bearings....
done in a day if said beer is applied spaciously...

throw a set of rings and a piston in her for another $50??? go cut for another 19 months for almost free....

yup Id say that's a saw to throw away. freekin junk....


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## bikemike (Jul 25, 2015)

The big problem is that saw ID ends with 1


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## bikemike (Jul 25, 2015)

imagineero said:


> What do you do with all the cookies Brad?


He sells them to martha stewart so she can use them as placemats for garbage can decoration


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## blsnelling (Jul 25, 2015)

coltont said:


> My 661 is 8 months old and has had two solenoids so far. When they go bad they get hard to start and won't open to WFO. Sloppy on the trigger coming off idle to.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk





coltont said:


> Brad the stumble that saw had coming off idle is from the solenoid.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


@porsche965

PN 1144 430 1010 - $30


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## Rockjock (Jul 25, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I've ported 16 MS661s. I'm yet to hear back from any owner that has had a serious issue.
> 
> Well.......there is that guy in Canada that won't stop using crap oil.


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## porsche965 (Jul 26, 2015)

The slow process of elimination


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## blsnelling (Jul 26, 2015)

We tried a new coil/controller and that didn't help at all. Next, we're going to swap out the whole carb. If that fixes it, I'll replace the solenoid first and go from there.


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## Chainsaw Jim (Jul 26, 2015)

It may be possible that the check valve in the carb is shot.


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## drf255 (Jul 26, 2015)

angelo c said:


> 19 months of big timber??
> I'd say somebody got their moneys worth....
> 
> 
> ...


+1

44 loads a week for 19 months. I'm sold. 

There's some defined obsolescence necessary in products. You did quite well AFAIC.


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## coltont (Jul 27, 2015)

I'm not complaining at all about the length of time the saw lasted at all. I tortured it.

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## drf255 (Jul 27, 2015)

Didn't mean to make it sound that way. Its quite impressive how much work that saw did.


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## coltont (Jul 27, 2015)

I think keeping the chain sharp all the time and and not getting crazy with the rakers helped with the life of this saw. It's at the doctor now. Said he's going to put a thinner gasket under the jug. The same guy spilt and rebuilt a 660 for me 2 years ago and to this day it's our strongest running most reliable saw in the fleet. In fact it's the oldest saw we have that's in the woods everyday and I'd trust it way more than my 661.

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## Bwildered (Jul 27, 2015)

big t double said:


> The path I have planned is to never arm wrestle the guy in that video.


dont worry hes an ex huski owner, now he's got a stihl you will find he's going to waste away.
thansk


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## blsnelling (Aug 6, 2015)

Well, nothing seemed to help this saw run right, not even another carb, including the solenoid and trigger unit. With those parts all replaced, it was clear that we weren't just dealing with a faulty part issue. So, I had the saw sent home.

The saw arrived this afternoon. I warmed the saw up so that I could experience this off idle bog for myself. I have never experienced it when I ran any 661. Sure enough, there it was. 

I noticed that it only did it if left idle for a bit. I was convinced that it was fuel pooling in the intake boot. It didn't seem to be running so rich, just pooling up over time.

My first effort was to lower the needle height, thereby hoping to lean it out a bit. This didn't fix it, which is line with the idea that it's not actually running rich, but has a pooling issue.

Next, I thought I'd throw the bottom ring back in, just to eliminate the variable. This shouldn't have an affect like this, but I wanted to eliminate this variable. I was putting the cylinder back on and noticed that something didn't look right. I reached into the intake boot and noticed something that didn't feel right. What could it possible be? I grabbed a flashlight and here's what I saw.







Do you recognize what that is?!!! Remember those odd, large rubber washers that I found folded in half in the intake manifold of a 661? Well, here they are again, except I now know where they came from!

Here it is removed, a little deformed, proving that it's been out of place for some time.






So I look back in the boot and found that there was a second one in there, just like in the other 661.






So, where do these go and what are they for?
















See that crack? That is the bellow. It's partially covered by a lip, coming forward like a funnel lip. The design here is to have a bellow to allow flex, but to fill it with these washer, and then cover it with this lip in order to prevent pooling. However, when you partially pull out one of those washers, you do exactly the opposite of what it's intended to do. It blocks flow and creates a pooling issue.

So, I took the bottom ring back off, put the rubber washers back in place, and put it back together. *The issue appears to be gone! *The real test will be to get it in some wood, but I fully believe the issue is fixed!


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 6, 2015)

Do you think they came loos when you took the saw apart for porting? I'm a bit surprised you didn't checked the boot when you had the saw apart, as this was seen before.  Anyway you found the problem and all is right. The question now becomes, will they come loose again? time will tell.


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## nitehawk55 (Aug 6, 2015)

Stihl needs to change this design , it's foolish to have anything inserted in an intake that can move and restrict flow or worse !

Good detective work Brad !


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 6, 2015)

nitehawk55 said:


> Stihl needs to change this design , it's foolish to have anything inserted in an intake that can move and restrict flow or worse !



I'm guessing is this was a temporary fix for a design issue. Or just goofy engineering.


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## redoakneck (Aug 6, 2015)

Where the heck does that ring washer deal go??? Inside the rubber manifold??? I can't tell from pics???


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## redoakneck (Aug 6, 2015)

Is that in the 661_IPL???


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 6, 2015)

Looks like they fit in the expansion groove. Older models has an extended flap to cover the groove. Why they didn't do that on this saw? I don't know.


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## blsnelling (Aug 6, 2015)

It would appear to me that Stihl has had to design around a pooling issue. In no other saw have I seen an intake boot made like this. Add to this, there is an unlisted, alternative intake boot that has no bellow at all. I had my dealer talk to their distributor, and they have one of these boots on order for me.


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## blsnelling (Aug 7, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> Do you think they came loos when you took the saw apart for porting? I'm a bit surprised you didn't checked the boot when you had the saw apart, as this was seen before.  Anyway you found the problem and all is right. The question now becomes, will they come loose again? time will tell.


I have looked for those washers since then. They're not visible! They're completely hidden inside the bellow and under that lip. Therefore, no one knew they were there to watch out for. I believe that I dislodged them when re-assembling the saw. I don't think they will come out under use, although I'm not convinced it might be possible with a ham-fisted operator.



redoakneck said:


> Where the heck does that ring washer deal go??? Inside the rubber manifold??? I can't tell from pics???


Directly in the bellow of the intake boot.



redoakneck said:


> Is that in the 661_IPL???


No they are not.



Andyshine77 said:


> Looks like they fit in the expansion groove. Older models has an extended flap to cover the groove. Why they didn't do that on this saw? I don't know.


Correct. This intake has both.


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 7, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> I have looked for those washers since then. They're not visible! They're completely hidden inside the bellow and under that lip. Therefore, no one knew they were there to watch out for. I believe that I dislodged them when re-assembling the saw. I don't think they will come out under use, although I'm not convinced it might be possible with a ham-fisted operator.
> 
> 
> Directly in the bellow of the intake boot.
> ...



Okay got it. 

So the boot does have the flap, odd that the washers would be necessary.


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## redoakneck (Aug 7, 2015)

Did someone say ham???

Wers ma hammer, dagumit, looks like a good spot to add nitrous???

The snellerized 661 nitrous ring edition,


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## Four Paws (Aug 7, 2015)

Maybe they come loose when the saw gets pulled out of a pinch and the intake boot stretches?

No matter how they come loose, it's a shame it is even possible on a $1200 chainsaw. 

Glad you got it fixed Brad.


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## singinwoodwackr (Aug 7, 2015)

so, do I need to put them back in?


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## DND 9000 (Aug 7, 2015)

I think that washer (1144 141 2700) is deleted know, when Brad says it`s not in the IPL. I`ve seen that washer in a older IPL. (On the attached picture no. 23) I think it`s put from the larger opening inside the manifold.


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## CR888 (Aug 7, 2015)

Interesting thread Brad, would be interested to hear from you after you check out the other listed intake boot elbow and play with it. lt would be nice to hear what the stihl engineers would say about this design and the reasons behind its 'difference' compared to other models. l bet there would be a little interesting story behind it.


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## big t double (Aug 7, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> ....and they have one of these boots on order for me.


Were they able to get you a part number?


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## Moparmyway (Aug 7, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> I have looked for those washers since then. They're not visible! They're completely hidden inside the bellow and under that lip. Therefore, no one knew they were there to watch out for. I believe that I dislodged them when re-assembling the saw. I don't think they will come out under use, although I'm not convinced it might be possible with a ham-fisted operator.




Great job Brad !!!!!


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## blsnelling (Aug 7, 2015)

> So the boot does have the flap, odd that the washers would be necessary.





singinwoodwackr said:


> so, do I need to put them back in?





DND 9000 said:


> I think that washer (1144 141 2700) is deleted now...


Yeah, I really don't think they're needed, not with the way that lip covers the bellow. If they're not in there, they can't come out of place. If you don't have an off idle bog, you're good to go.



big t double said:


> Were they able to get you a part number?


I don't yet. Hopefully I'll have it when it comes.


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## coltont (Aug 7, 2015)

Brad my 661 has been a disasterpiece for the last 3 weeks. 2 solenoid's and finally they replaced the whole shootin match carb and all. It's running like a scalded dog now minus a stumble off idle sometimes. I think I'm going to pull the carb and look in the boot. I work the piss out of it everyday. It'll cut and top about 3 more trees to the tank than my 660s.

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## blsnelling (Aug 7, 2015)

Like I mentioned earlier, there is an unlisted alternative intake boot that has no bellow. The walls are totally straight. I do not have the PN though.


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## Trx250r180 (Aug 7, 2015)

What happens if you just toss the pucks ? does fuel pool in the voids ?


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## singinwoodwackr (Aug 7, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> What happens if you just toss the pucks ? does fuel pool in the voids ?


doesn't seem to, at least not with my saw.


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 7, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> What happens if you just toss the pucks ? does fuel pool in the voids ?


With the flap/lip I don't see the need for the washers. My guess is, if you pull hard on the handle, the gap may open up and some fuel would get in there. As soon as you move the saw around, the fuel would dump into the intake port causing the saw to stall or almost stall.


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## redbull660 (Aug 7, 2015)

what the "straight" boot looks like and part # (I bought funky's 661...that is how I have it)

1144/02A
9274-11


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## glock37 (Aug 7, 2015)

brad when you replace a part are u clearing that fault in the controller with the computer hardware dgm ?

I'm playing with a few saws from the dealer and once you clear it they run fine


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## big t double (Aug 7, 2015)

We used our mdg once...and broke it


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## glock37 (Aug 7, 2015)

How u do that 


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## big t double (Aug 7, 2015)

glock37 said:


> How u do that
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Spring for the spark plug connection came out.


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## glock37 (Aug 7, 2015)

Oh wow ok 


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## blsnelling (Aug 8, 2015)

glock37 said:


> brad when you replace a part are u clearing that fault in the controller with the computer hardware dgm ?
> 
> I'm playing with a few saws from the dealer and once you clear it they run fine


No. I doubt my dealer even has one. This saw is running fine now.


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## DND 9000 (Aug 8, 2015)

@glock37

You can`t clear faults on m-tronic machines with the mdg, you can only recalibrate the control unit and read out 
stored data.


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## glock37 (Aug 8, 2015)

Well isnt recalibrating clearing or reset control unit the same


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## porsche965 (Aug 8, 2015)

Someone needs to come up with a programmable MDG, so that an individual could choose his own values inputted to a particular saw. 

This would take porting to the next level.


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## nitehawk55 (Aug 8, 2015)

porsche965 said:


> Someone needs to come up with a programmable MDG, so that an individual could choose his own values inputted to a particular saw.
> 
> This would take porting to the next level.



This will come in time just like on auto's and trucks , it's still a pretty new technology with saws .

I recall the early days with the cars when I was pulling wrenches, lots of problems and poor diagnostic methods but that has changed for the better thankfully .


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## blsnelling (Aug 8, 2015)

glock37 said:


> Well isnt recalibrating clearing or reset control unit the same
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I always recalibrate.


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## Termite (Aug 8, 2015)

I just read this thread. When the video first started playing I thought Gee Brad's been bulking up.


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## blsnelling (Aug 29, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> what the "straight" boot looks like and part #
> 1144/02A
> 9274-11


All Stihl PNs are 11 digits. Here's the actual PN. 1144 141 2202


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## bennn*e (Aug 31, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> what the "straight" boot looks like and part # (I bought funky's 661...that is how I have it)
> 
> 1144/02A
> 9274-11


What's your SN# start with? Mines a fairly late one and I had a look and it's got the ribs in it


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## coltont (Sep 8, 2015)

Got the saw back last week. The put a new controller on it. I can get 3 tanks through it then it goes to junk no power. What the heck is it.

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## CR888 (Sep 8, 2015)

coltont said:


> Got the saw back last week. The put a new controller on it. I can get 3 tanks through it then it goes to junk no power. What the heck is it.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Ya must be damn frustated!! Wressle it out with your dealer untill you get what you deserve for your hard earned monies. l must say these new saws 'if' they have issues seem to go back and forth between customer and dealer more than any other ***. Hope you find the magic solution.


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## Four Paws (Sep 8, 2015)

coltont said:


> Got the saw back last week. The put a new controller on it. I can get 3 tanks through it then it goes to junk no power. What the heck is it.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



Consistently 3 tanks...then poor performance? Shut down, then does it repeat the next day? If so, heat is your problem. Electronics are becoming heat soaked and things are going south. Carb control and coil - that's all you have to go after.


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## coltont (Sep 9, 2015)

Thing is they put a new carb on it. And a coil was put on it about 4 weeks after I bought it. I'm too the point now where I just want rid of the heap of trash. The stupid shop doesn't even have any logs to test it in. 

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## bennn*e (Sep 9, 2015)

Checked in my new mediacat and there is a supersession to the new part number posted above but to TI explaining it which is a bit odd. Don't know whether to order one and replace it under warranty before it possibly causes an issue


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## Moparmyway (Sep 9, 2015)

bennn*e said:


> Checked in my new mediacat and there is a supersession to the new part number posted above but to TI explaining it which is a bit odd. Don't know whether to order one and replace it under warranty before it possibly causes an issue


Are you talking about the intake boot part number Brad listed ?
I ordered one from my dealer last week.


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## Mastermind (Sep 9, 2015)

Contact Stihl corporate.


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## coltont (Sep 9, 2015)

The saga continues... They want to check the rate of flow into the carb. They are as frustrated as I am as well. 

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## fordf150 (Sep 9, 2015)

I am beginning to think maybe when i was told Dolmar had an auto-tune but couldnt get it to function correctly on US gas so they havent released it that they might have been telling the truth. I had chalked that rumor up as BS but seems there may have been a grain of truth to it.


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## bikemike (Sep 9, 2015)

Take out ur good old saw and cut a couple logs for them to keep for test runs then they will have no reason to say it runs fine after they get it warmed up and workin


coltont said:


> Thing is they put a new carb on it. And a coil was put on it about 4 weeks after I bought it. I'm too the point now where I just want rid of the heap of trash. The stupid shop doesn't even have any logs to test it in.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## coltont (Sep 9, 2015)

I might just do that.

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## coltont (Sep 10, 2015)

who needs a silly 661 anyway.

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## coltont (Sep 11, 2015)

Evedently they called stihl raised Kane. They are replacing the intake boot and the fuel switch that controls the flow into the carb. George at stihl Virgina beech says that they are seeing more and more trouble with them. This time when they plugged it in it showed that it was running really rich. Seems to me that with this electronic garbage you replace parts until something works because they don't know how to diagnose it because the system is smarter than the stihl techs. I think the m tronic stuff for a production cutter should be replaced after a year of use unless your a gambler..........

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## porsche965 (Sep 11, 2015)

Just like trucks and autos you get a pistol every once in awhile. I have quite a few Mtrons from 241 to 661's and no problems.


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## weimedog (Sep 11, 2015)

coltont said:


> View attachment 446532
> who needs a silly 661 anyway.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



Hey..they don't look exactly like Stihl's, How do they run? How far away from CNY are you?


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## coltont (Sep 11, 2015)

They are certainly 100% genuine tree killing 660s. Animals to run. They both get about a gallon and a half of fuel through them a day, and never back down or get tired like the 661. 

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## blsnelling (Sep 11, 2015)

weimedog said:


> Hey..they don't look exactly like Stihl's....


Yeah, I though they were part Husky 346 the way they're laying on their side


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## weimedog (Sep 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Yeah, I though they were part Husky 346 the way they're laying on their side


Now that's funny... what was that...side ways balance?


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## coltont (Sep 26, 2015)

So I got my 661 back today . new controller and intake boot although mice didn't have the washers in they stihl corp. Told them to change it. Holy cow poop it took long enough to get back..... It's kinda funny that if you go raise Kane sometimes and don't get out of hand and just prove your point it sometimes helps. The saw had been there almost 3 weeks and we are about there biggest customer in the logging business. I went in Friday and simply stated that I though it was a very poor representation of a stihl product and that it was bs that it took nearly 3 weeks to get the parts...... And this was I think the 5 time or so it's been in the shop since March........ Heck idk I forget how many times. Hopefully it's good this time, I'm going to give it normal torture on Monday and see if it can hack it. Fingers crossed. 

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## Moparmyway (Sep 26, 2015)

My intake has been on back-order for 4 weeks now.
I usually get anything in a week, back-order is usually 2 weeks


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## porsche965 (Sep 26, 2015)

My new intakes came in weeks ago. "Smooth."

Run the blazes out of her on Monday and let us know. The harder I push mine the better they like it


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## coltont (Sep 26, 2015)

I don't care if it's on stock or not. When they wanted to swap parts before to fix the problem they took them off a new saw. Why didn't they think to do that 3weeks ago when they saw the part was on back order. That's water under the bridge at this time......... Hopefully

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## coltont (Sep 26, 2015)

I have no remorse for stihl at this point. A 7 month old saw should not be in the shop.... Let alone this many times. I don't know why they haven't just replaced the whole saw. It's been all warranty work so it's cost me nothing but my dealer has lots of man hours invested.

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## porsche965 (Sep 26, 2015)

coltont said:


> I have no remorse for stihl at this point. A 7 month old saw should not be in the shop.... Let alone this many times. I don't know why they haven't just replaced the whole saw. It's been all warranty work so it's cost me nothing but my dealer has lots of man hours invested.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


My Dealer would have had a new saw in my hands on round 2.


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## coltont (Sep 26, 2015)

That's what I don't understand. How the dealer thought it was cost effective to go the route they went. 

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## porsche965 (Sep 26, 2015)

Run the snot out of it on Monday, you'll know what you have by 6pm


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## coltont (Sep 26, 2015)

Hell I'll know by the 3rd tank. By the end of the second one it'll have a hesitation when you squeeze the throttle. By halfway through the third tank you'll want to lay it on the notch of the tree and let nature take care of it.

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## wyk (Sep 26, 2015)

Hrm, my 241 has been acting similarly lately. GOnna see about that intake.


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## Bwildered (Sep 26, 2015)

we are 20 years behind you guys on a lot of things, but for something like this we have consumer laws that make it possible to justtake it back, get you money refunded or a new saw if its defective, problematic, doesn't do what its suppose to or unfit for use. don't you have such consumer protection for items like this, i know you have similar lemon laws for motor vehicles?
Ta


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## coltont (Sep 26, 2015)

I think most of there problem is that it's a brand new model and they don't even know how to fix it. There new fancy computer is to dumb to help too. But hey it's still better than a husky or dolmar. Fact is they all break at one time or another.

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## Bwildered (Sep 26, 2015)

coltont said:


> I think most of there problem is that it's a brand new model and they don't even know how to fix it. There new fancy computer is to dumb to help too. But hey it's still better than a husky or dolmar. Fact is they all break at one time or another.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


push to get a new saw, your a professional & its costing you time & money & your not a guinea pig for something that doesn't work properly


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## coltont (Sep 26, 2015)

That's next. If they won't I'll take all our business somewhere else. I understand our business doesn't keep them in businesses but we pay our account off monthly and send a pile of business there way. I hate the thought of finding another dealer cause I like these people. They are good people... Kinda seems like there hands are tied by stihl... I could be wrong but it sure seems to be that way.

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## Bwildered (Sep 26, 2015)

coltont said:


> That's next. If they won't I'll take all our business somewhere else. I understand our business doesn't keep them in businesses but we pay our account off monthly and send a pile of business there way. I hate the thought of finding another dealer cause I like these people. They are good people... Kinda seems like there hands are tied by stihl... I could be wrong but it sure seems to be that way.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


maybe you just have to go up the food chain further & start every conversation with " the saw is stuffed, its been worked on X amount of times with still no fix" end the conversation with "I want a new saw"
tanks


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## fordf150 (Sep 29, 2015)

coltont said:


> That's next. If they won't I'll take all our business somewhere else. I understand our business doesn't keep them in businesses but we pay our account off monthly and send a pile of business there way. I hate the thought of finding another dealer cause I like these people. They are good people... Kinda seems like there hands are tied by stihl... I could be wrong but it sure seems to be that way.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


their hands are tied by stihl to a certain extent. It is still in their control to hand you a new saw at their cost and deal with reimbursement from stihl on their time not yours.


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## porsche965 (Sep 29, 2015)

coltont said:


> That's next. If they won't I'll take all our business somewhere else. I understand our business doesn't keep them in businesses but we pay our account off monthly and send a pile of business there way. I hate the thought of finding another dealer cause I like these people. They are good people... Kinda seems like there hands are tied by stihl... I could be wrong but it sure seems to be that way.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



Tell your Dealer that you will write your State's Attorney General's office and also send a letter to Stihl Germany. Don't worry about those Germans reading English, they are quite good at it. Tell your Dealer that way it is out of your hands and the State of Pa. will take care of it for both of you. 

I've done this with other manufacturers and on other consumer products and things begin happening pretty quick.


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## Mastermind (Sep 29, 2015)

Yep. Sometimes a man just has to stand up and say enough is enough.


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## Deleted member 135597 (Sep 29, 2015)

well...................what's the verdict? is it fixed?


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## coltont (Sep 29, 2015)

Well I went in and gave it to them and the owner him hawed around said he had to called stihl. I asked if I was getting a new saw now his words were " I'm not giving you a new saw ". I looked at him and said OK and turned around and left. Talked to my boss and he called in and said new saw or out money back and we'll take all our business elsewhere. At about 10 till 5 I got a call to come in and pick up a new saw. When the owner of the shop called me he asked what oil ratio we are running and I told him 40:1. He stated that it was bad for these modern saws and it carbons them up to much. I just agreed because I didn't want to argue. It's a shame that you can go to the same dealer for years and and always pay your account bill on time and in full and have to put up with getting the run around. 

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## fordf150 (Sep 29, 2015)

coltont said:


> Well I went in and gave it to them and the owner him hawed around said he had to called stihl. I asked if I was getting a new saw now his words were " I'm not giving you a new saw ". I looked at him and said OK and turned around and left. Talked to my boss and he called in and said new saw or out money back and we'll take all our business elsewhere. At about 10 till 5 I got a call to come in and pick up a new saw. When the owner of the shop called me he asked what oil ratio we are running and I told him 40:1. He stated that it was bad for these modern saws and it carbons them up to much. I just agreed because I didn't want to argue. It's a shame that you can go to the same dealer for years and and always pay your account bill on time and in full and have to put up with getting the run around.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I am not even sure what to say to that..... Any other decent dealers nearby? I am sure you have dealt with this dealer for so long and put up with this for a reason but maybe its time


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## coltont (Sep 29, 2015)

All the other dealers suck. I'm just going to start going back to the Amish guy that used to be a logger that sells stihl. He's about an hour away but he has every part you'd ever need and if he didn't have it he's got it on a beat saw . and his labor is $10.00 an hour. 

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## eagle1899 (Sep 29, 2015)

My Niece's soon to be husband is an Arborist. Been at it for ten years now, no stranger to saws or upkeep. 

Bought a brand new 661.... two weeks and it seized. Dealer called Stihl, they promptly replaced it.

New saw has been running good so far. Not sure if it was a fluke or left over teething problems.


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## mdavlee (Sep 29, 2015)

Glad they finally give you a new one. They should have done it a longtime ago.


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## coltont (Sep 29, 2015)

It's a shame that there's some trouble with the saw because when it works it's everything you want for a timber saw. O well. I still have a 660 and an 066 that I'll keep till they are junk.

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## coltont (Sep 30, 2015)

I guess if your gonna do it you might as well do it rite






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## coltont (Sep 30, 2015)

I was with the boss today wrapping up a few loose ends...... Down payment on another skidder looking at jobs. Getting a new 661....... And after we left the dealer my boss said "wow they act like it's your fault the saw is screwed up". He sees why I'm done putting anything on our account with them from today on. Any of you guys run those total super bars ??

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## porsche965 (Sep 30, 2015)

'That's a very poor Dealer, if you like him or not. My Dealer treats me like Gold and trusts me more it seems than he does Stihl lol. 

Find a new Dealer.


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## coltont (Sep 30, 2015)

I've found a new dealer.... Heck never quit buying from him. Just sucks he's an hour away.

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## porsche965 (Sep 30, 2015)

I drive over 3 Dealers and an hour to get to mine. Worth the drive to do business with a gentleman.

Good decision. And UPS is only two days at the most for what I need or sometimes one day. Cheaper than fuel.


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## coltont (Oct 1, 2015)

. 9 tanks today and running like a champ.

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## coltont (Oct 1, 2015)

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## blsnelling (Oct 1, 2015)

Has she woken up yet?


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## coltont (Oct 1, 2015)

O yea. These m tronic saws seem to wake up after about tank 6. Game on after that.

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## blsnelling (Oct 1, 2015)

coltont said:


> O yea. These m tronic saws seem to wake up after about tank 6. Game on after that.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Have you noticed that there seems to almost be a switch that flips at some point, releasing significantly more power? I don't put enough consistent time on a saw to experience this, but have been told by others. What's your experience?


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## coltont (Oct 1, 2015)

Yep. They just decide to turn on. It's neat.

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## blsnelling (Oct 1, 2015)

coltont said:


> Yep. They just decide to turn on. It's neat.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I find that very interesting. It makes me wonder what kinds of things they might have programmed into MTronic that we'll never know about. A gradual and moderate improvement in power might be attributed to break-in. A sudden marked improvement in power almost has to be programmed in, at least in my mind. Husky has an hour meter. It wouldn't be difficult at all to program changes in the tune after x amount of time. @porsche965


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## gunnusmc03 (Oct 1, 2015)

I have 3 tsumura bars, you'll like them. The rails have outstanding durability.


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## fordf150 (Oct 1, 2015)

gunnusmc03 said:


> I have 3 tsumura bars, you'll like them. The rails have outstanding durability.


rails are great and from most accounts are equal to cannon. I have found the tips to be a weak link on the Tsumara/Total bars though


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## mdavlee (Oct 1, 2015)

If you bore cut a lot you may want to grab another tip. Most of us PSP don't bury the tip very often[emoji12]


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## coltont (Oct 2, 2015)

I love burying my tip......

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## blsnelling (Oct 2, 2015)

coltont said:


> I love burying my tip......


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## coltont (Oct 2, 2015)

Riddle me this...... We got a brand new 661 2 weeks ago.......... I forget the DOM but I think it was like 9 14. I got my replacement on Wednesday morning and it's DOM is 4 15. Mine has the new straight intake boot the other has the rib around the middle. When did they do the switch? Also the gunning sights on the side cover of the older saw are only painted black on the vertical lines not the horizontal lines.

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## Moparmyway (Oct 3, 2015)

Just got a ton of parts from the Stihl dealer ................ that straight intake boot for mine is still on back order


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## coltont (Oct 3, 2015)

Well do we take the saw in and get the stuff updated or run it and hope it doesn't puke?

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## Moparmyway (Oct 3, 2015)

I would just pull out those pesky washers from the intake bellows. 

Thats what I did to mine. After a long idle time, its got a pretty good stumble, but it clears up quickly. If I feather the throttle slowly, no stumble. Fuel is puddling in the bellows, the straight intake fixes it.

I would rather deal with the stumble after idling that have the washers block off the intake, but thats just me.


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## coltont (Oct 3, 2015)

I had the original style intake boot on the junk heap 661 I had first.... It didn't have any washers. 

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## coltont (Oct 3, 2015)

Funny you say about the long idle and stumble. It seemed like that's what would kill that first 661 I had. Let it idle for 40 seconds while your clearing the butt of a tree and and pick it and squeeze the throttle and it would look like a DDT fogger and out just couldn't get over the bog once that happened.

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## Moparmyway (Oct 3, 2015)

coltont said:


> I had the original style intake boot on the junk heap 661 I had first.... It didn't have any washers.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Did you look for them, or fish for them (hook them and grab them) ?

You wont see them if they are in there where they belong, but you can hook them and pull them out. Thats what I did with mine


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## coltont (Oct 3, 2015)

Hell I had the hole boot off hunting them. No dice. 

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## Moparmyway (Oct 3, 2015)

I would talk to the dealer and ask him if he can order you a straight boot for it, run it untill it arrives
You might grow old and grey waiting for it though


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## coltont (Oct 3, 2015)

Nahhh no talking to the dealer. We're going to run the guts out of it like all our other saws and if it gives up the ghost it'll get replaced. My dealer and I aren't really seeing eye to eye rite now after the run around with my other saw.

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## shawn022 (Oct 3, 2015)

Run the hell out of it. If it messes up, contact Stihl directly. Its the only way they're going to get this saw straightened out. And since you make your living cutting trees, always have a 660 close by.


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## coltont (Oct 7, 2015)

Anyone around Johnstown PA have a ported 661 I could cut a few pieces with?

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## nixon (Oct 7, 2015)

If you're ever in northern Butler county ,stop by and you can run mine . Don't have anything big to feed it right now so it'll be wearing a 25" bar .


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## SAWMIKAZE (Oct 7, 2015)

coltont said:


> Anyone around Johnstown PA have a ported 661 I could cut a few pieces with?
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



If you wanna ride to blairsville the first 3 weeks of novemeber you can absolutley do some cuttin with ours.

I may have another squeezed in from brad by then too , blairsville isnt too far west from johnstown.


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## coltont (Oct 8, 2015)

Might hit one of you guys up on your offers. I'm cutting a piece of timber in sidman...... I can look across the way and see the last mtn you go over on 22 west just before you drop into Blairsville.

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## SAWMIKAZE (Oct 8, 2015)

coltont said:


> Might hit one of you guys up on your offers. I'm cutting a piece of timber in sidman...... I can look across the way and see the last mtn you go over on 22 west just before you drop into Blairsville.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



Theres really no wood there that justifies 90cc..but you could get an idea i suppose , A guy by me is startin to do some saw porting after bein into 2 stroke bikes for years..hes gettin pretty good at it and did pretty good on my buddys 661 , If you wanna come down a certain day lemme know and ill make sure to take one if you wanna give it a spin.


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## blsnelling (Nov 4, 2015)

This 661 still continues to give me issues. I installed the straight walled intake boot and it still did it. I then replaced the piston to get of the extra intake port timing I had given it by trimming the skirt. It's still doing it. I'm out of ideas. The carb has been swapped. The coil had been swapped. Nothing fixes it. I guess I'm just one of the lucky few. A standard carb goes on next!


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## Moparmyway (Nov 4, 2015)

Is this the one that is stumbling at throttle tip in ?


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## blsnelling (Nov 4, 2015)

Yes. The saw runs fantastic other than this annoyance. It makes great power, great torque, great RPMs... It's just this one annoying thing, and it doesn't do it all the time.


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## porsche965 (Nov 4, 2015)

Plug wire or connection?


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## coltont (Nov 4, 2015)

Same exact trouble as I had Brad.

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## redbull660 (Nov 4, 2015)

you have to upgrade the software on the 661 to windows 10 ...worked for me! i swear


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## Moparmyway (Nov 4, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Yes. The saw runs fantastic other than this annoyance. It makes great power, great torque, great RPMs... It's just this one annoying thing, and it doesn't do it all the time.


Brad, would you be willing to run this with a different air filter ?
Not another HD2, but a Max Flow ?


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## blsnelling (Nov 4, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> Brad, would you be willing to run this with a different air filter ?
> Not another HD2, but a Max Flow ?


I don't care to purchase a Max Flow but would willing to try one. What are you thinking?


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## Moparmyway (Nov 4, 2015)

I will send you an element ......... all you need is a sacrificial HD2


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## blsnelling (Nov 4, 2015)

porsche965 said:


> Plug wire or connection?


We swapped the coil and carb. There is nothing more to it.



coltont said:


> Same exact trouble as I had Brad.


Didn't they end up just replacing your saw, after swapping everything out made no difference?


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## thechainsawguy (Nov 4, 2015)

Did anyone hear of the piston size being changed, just something I heard in my neck of the woods. Earlier ones the piston could expand and seize the saw, so they are making them a touch smaller.

Dave


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## blsnelling (Nov 4, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> I will send you an element ......... all you need is a sacrificial HD2


I don't have a filter that I care to cut up. What is it you're thinking this might change? The saw runs perfectly at WOT, where the most air is needed. It idles perfectly as well. I'm not trying to be critical, just thinking through this logically. I'd be willing to run it no filter for a couple cuts. It's only after making a cut and idling a short time that it stumbles.


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## blsnelling (Nov 4, 2015)

thechainsawguy said:


> Did anyone hear of the piston size being changed, just something I heard in my neck of the woods. Earlier ones the piston could expand and seize the saw, so they are making them a touch smaller.
> 
> Dave


I had not heard of that. This saw has a brand new piston in it. It's actually had 4-5 pistons in it, as I experimented with different things. I've seen no indications of seizing. Of course, this is only one saw.


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## thechainsawguy (Nov 4, 2015)

I think this was the reason that the odd saw just blew up. That is what the local tech told me. So they made a slightly smaller piston.

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## Moparmyway (Nov 4, 2015)

I am thinking that mine ran much better and lost the once in a while stumble when I cut my HD2 and installed the element over it.
If you want to run sans filter, thats OK with me, but I'd be willing to send you the element so you wouldnt have to run it without any filter

You could also cut an older HD filter to use for the frame and place the element over that


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## blsnelling (Nov 4, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> I am thinking that mine ran much better and lost the once in a while stumble when I cut my HD2 and installed the element over it.
> If you want to run sans filter, thats OK with me, but I'd be willing to send you the element so you wouldnt have to run it without any filter
> 
> You could also cut an older HD filter to use for the frame and place the element over that


@Moparmyway

Hmmm. So you've experienced this stumble as well. Interesting. I'll give most anything a try. I do have a couple screen mesh winter filters that I don't mind sacrificing.

Jog my memory on your saw. Is it ported? Is the internal baffle removed from the muffler? Is the ignition advanced? I highly doubt it's related to porting at this point. There's nothing radical in this saw at this point. That's why I replaced the trimmed piston, to remove that variable.

I appreciate the help and ideas!


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## coltont (Nov 4, 2015)

Brad your correct they replaced it with a new one. It runs like a scalded dog.

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## blsnelling (Nov 4, 2015)

You won't see any issues in this vid from last night. Like I mentioned, it has to idle a bit after coming out of the cut. It was pretty much neck and neck with my 390XP this time!


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## mcobb2 (Nov 4, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Well, nothing seemed to help this saw run right, not even another carb, including the solenoid and trigger unit. With those parts all replaced, it was clear that we weren't just dealing with a faulty part issue. So, I had the saw sent home.
> 
> The saw arrived this afternoon. I warmed the saw up so that I could experience this off idle bog for myself. I have never experienced it when I ran any 661. Sure enough, there it was.
> 
> ...





blsnelling said:


> It would appear to me that Stihl has had to design around a pooling issue. In no other saw have I seen an intake boot made like this. Add to this, there is an unlisted, alternative intake boot that has no bellow at all. I had my dealer talk to their distributor, and they have one of these boots on order for me.


Brad I talked to a Stihl tech on it and he said yes that is partially the reason but the other reason is actually a little facinating to me. So the bellow is for expansion for AV reasons which makes sense but the bear of a saw draws so much air that it originally was collapsing the manifold. The ring was initially designed to hold the manifold's shape. The updated manifold is still being tested as even in some area's the ring would not hold it open, cause a saw to lean out and seize. My opinion to the whole deal... Holy cop car batman that's a lot of freakin air!


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## blsnelling (Nov 4, 2015)

Wow. I would think it would take a LOT to collapse the intake boot. Once the throttle is opened, it's wide open all the way to the filter. Perhaps I should watch and see what it's doing when I nail the throttle.


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## mcobb2 (Nov 4, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Wow. I would think it would take a LOT to collapse the intake boot. Once the throttle is opened, it's wide open all the way to the filter. Perhaps I should watch and see what it's doing when I nail the throttle.


That's EXACTLY the thought that went through my head... Although I was taught a 441C-m pulls 12 cu/ft or air a minute at full power. That's impressive in my eyes.


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 4, 2015)

Mark, isn't your hack ported 441 doing the same thing?


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## mcobb2 (Nov 4, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Mark, isn't your hack ported 441 doing the same thing?


No it's doing it whether it has idled for .2 seconds or a minute. Keep it off the idle and life is bonerific.


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 4, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> No it's doing it whether it has idled for .2 seconds or a minute. Keep it off the idle and life is bonerific.


Did spell check help you with that?


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## mcobb2 (Nov 4, 2015)

No, you're hott sister did...


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 4, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> No, you're hott sister did...


Oh
Tell her I said hello


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## mcobb2 (Nov 4, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Did spell check help you with that?





Adirondackstihl said:


> Oh
> Tell her I said hello


She says "I have a potty mouth"...
Don't shoot the messenger.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 5, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> You won't see any issues in this vid from last night. Like I mentioned, it has to idle a bit after coming out of the cut. It was pretty much neck and neck with my 390XP this time!




It was great to get out and play with some saws! thanks for stopping by Brad. Sure was nice to talk to a real saw guy in person without all the AS, BS, "I have a potty mouth" and riff raff people around.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 5, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> @Moparmyway
> 
> Hmmm. So you've experienced this stumble as well. Interesting. I'll give most anything a try. I do have a couple screen mesh winter filters that I don't mind sacrificing.
> 
> ...



Little history on mine .............
It WAS stock and running fine
- opened up the muffler a little, switched screens to one that flows much more
- opened up the muffler ALOT and started to notice a stumble off idle a few tanks later
- opened the muffler as much as possible without going overboard, stumble still there
- then I installed the Max Flow over the HD2 after cutting 10 holes in the HD2 and I never noticed that hesitation again.
- then I installed the straight boot and she seemed a slight bit quicker to spool up off idle
- then I sent you the PM, after I spoke with a real good guy from Tennessee

Mine now sits like this and when I run her, I just giggle


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## blsnelling (Nov 5, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> Little history on mine .............
> It WAS stock and running fine
> - opened up the muffler a little, switched screens to one that flows much more
> - opened up the muffler ALOT and started to notice a stumble off idle a few tanks later
> ...


Thanks for that. This did start after I removed the baffle on mine and gave it more opening. But, that also gave it more power. You definitely have my attention now after describing the progression of yours. Can I still run the factory filter cover with your modified filter setup?


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## Moparmyway (Nov 5, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks for that. This did start after I removed the baffle on mine and gave it more opening. But, that also gave it more power. You definitely have my attention now after describing the progression of yours. Can I still run the factory filter cover with your modified filter setup?


I do when it rains


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## fordf150 (Nov 5, 2015)

The HD2 filters are only $22 or so and a AM HD filter should be $14 or so. I think it would be worth sacrificing a hd filter...you have already sacrificed how many pistons? air filter is pretty cheap and easy compared to those


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## Moparmyway (Nov 5, 2015)

Jasha has made use of the Max Flow 660 kit rather well on his 661
I have used the HD2 and just the element on my 661
I can see the HD being cut to remove the fabrick, leaving just the metal mesh so you can put the element over that for any 661

Three easy ways to get that Max Flow on there
Brad, its up to you now, what you gunna do ?


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 5, 2015)

I wants a 661
Got some purdy saws to trade fer one


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## cgraham1 (Nov 5, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> I wants a 661
> Got some purdy saws to trade fer one


"I have a potty mouth", troll.


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## Mastermind (Nov 5, 2015)

There is now an updated coil available.......


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## Stihl Livin (Nov 5, 2015)

By the time they get the 661 figured out the 462 will be out.


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## blsnelling (Nov 5, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> There is now an updated coil available.......


Thanks for that Randy. Does anyone happen to have the new PN, or a tech bulletin about it?


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## blsnelling (Nov 5, 2015)

My dealer just called back after talking to the distributor. 1144 400 4720 replaces 1144 400 4710. I got no other info about it. I would love to hear if there's technical bulletin about it.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 5, 2015)

I got 1144 400 1301 for a coil part number on my IPL for the 661


----------



## DND 9000 (Nov 5, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> I got 1144 400 1301 for a coil part number on my IPL for the 661



That`s the part number for the ignition module for the non m-tronic MS 661


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## Moparmyway (Nov 5, 2015)

DND 9000 said:


> That`s the part number for the ignition module for the non m-tronic MS 661


Well .......... i will be dipped in chocolate shiit
My dealer gave me the non-M- Tronic IPL for the 661

I have the carb (adjustable) number for non-M-Tronic saws too !


----------



## Trx250r180 (Nov 5, 2015)

My 660 just works when i need it to ..............

Hullo


----------



## cgraham1 (Nov 5, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> My 660 just works when i need it to ..............
> 
> Hullo


As does my 661.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 5, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks for that. This did start after I removed the baffle on mine and gave it more opening. But, that also gave it more power. You definitely have my attention now after describing the progression of yours. Can I still run the factory filter cover with your modified filter setup?





Moparmyway said:


> Jasha has made use of the Max Flow 660 kit rather well on his 661
> I have used the HD2 and just the element on my 661
> I can see the HD being cut to remove the fabrick, leaving just the metal mesh so you can put the element over that for any 661
> 
> ...



If I can help, just let me know


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 5, 2015)

I might have a sacrificial filter if anyone is interested


----------



## bennn*e (Nov 5, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> My dealer just called back after talking to the distributor. 1144 400 4720 replaces 1144 400 4710. I got no other info about it. I would love to hear if there's technical bulletin about it.


No TI at this stage just a changed number. Would be nice to know if it actually physically different or just the programming. If it's the programming your should hope they could just be 'reflashed' bit of waste of modules other wise


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## Mastermind (Nov 5, 2015)

It's my understanding that it changes tune. The saws sometimes run too lean. With the new coil they sound noticeably richer. I'll do a video in a few days.


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## coltont (Nov 5, 2015)

I second that Randy. Sometimes when your walking the log cutting branches off it seems to hit a hidden rpm level. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## gabigcountry (Nov 5, 2015)

Don't know ,but thats exactly what my 441 was doing brand new,returned the saw to dealer,bought ms362 non mtronic,bought a used ms440,never looked back!!!! Be interesting what u find ?


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## porsche965 (Nov 5, 2015)

I wonder if the new coil would be slower? 
My first Gen sure sounds leaner than any I've watched on video.


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## porsche965 (Nov 5, 2015)

I have a new 661R to break in soon. Anxious to see if there is a difference.


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## blsnelling (Nov 5, 2015)

porsche965 said:


> I wonder if the new coil would be slower?
> My first Gen sure sounds leaner than any I've watched on video.


That's my concern as well. I like the WOT tune on this one as is. It just needs a small tweak on the L needle, lol. I think I'll give @Moparmyway 's filter setup a try first.


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## blsnelling (Nov 5, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> If I can help, just let me know





Adirondackstihl said:


> I might have a sacrificial filter if anyone is interested



Is there any reason the screen mesh winter filters won't work? If not, then I'm good to go on a sacrificial frame. How much are the foam wraps. I don't want to mooch yours, unless you have a spare to sell.

I appreciate the help and offers.


----------



## porsche965 (Nov 5, 2015)

coltont said:


> I second that Randy. Sometimes when your walking the log cutting branches off it seems to hit a hidden rpm level.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



German Stihl. German Volkswagen.

Cross pollination going on here? I've always said my coil seems to like "shift" after 1.5 cuts in big wood into a much higher RPM as the saw warms up. And the way this 661 sounds it is close to the top of it's performance envelope. Oval muffler mod is all.


----------



## redbull660 (Nov 5, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks for that. This did start after I removed the baffle on mine and gave it more opening. But, that also gave it more power. You definitely have my attention now after describing the progression of yours. Can I still run the factory filter cover with your modified filter setup?




well what about just trying a muffler *with the baffle left alone? 
*
Start with a stock muffler and open it up to ~7/8". (but leave baffle alone) This is the size opening, in which I've had zero issues. (I use the stock air filter and rear air filter cover)


I think the 7/8" opening is about the size porsche965 uses and if I recall I don't think he's had any issues either. (he hasn't done anything to the baffle either)

I think porsche965 is retiring one of his 661's. Maybe he could send you the muffler. I would only suggest that you run ~2-3 tanks through the saw before you made any conclusions on, if it cured the problem. I think Moparmyway would agree with me on that one...seems to take that long for some reason? Or maybe that many tanks were required only after you did the reset? @Moparmyway what say you?


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## porsche965 (Nov 5, 2015)

I'm going to install my modded muffler on this new 661R and break her in as equally as possible. Will know soon if it run richer or has any less power.


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## blsnelling (Nov 5, 2015)

@Moparmyway , which MaxFlow filter element do I want? Now that I know I can run the stock filter cover, I'm much more intrigued with this mod, and especially after reading about your experiences with your saw.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 6, 2015)

I use the white 80 pore filter.
I have seen a difference in cutting in each of the first 5-6 tanks after doing a reset. Each tank got progressively stronger on mine, especially after my grinder went to work on it. The first 2-3 tanks are very noticeable, the next 2-3 tanks are also noticeable, but you really have to look for it.

http://www.equiteemfg.com/max-flow-foam-filter-element-white-80-pore/


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 6, 2015)

The green is 40 or 44 pore and the white is 80. I've not seen any dust pass through the green.


----------



## Stihl working hard (Nov 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> It's my understanding that it changes tune. The saws sometimes run too lean. With the new coil they sound noticeably richer. I'll do a video in a few days.


Looking forward to that video Randy


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 10, 2015)

I just got the new coil yesterday......

Soon.


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Nov 10, 2015)

Done yet?


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 10, 2015)

Go away troll.


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Nov 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Go away troll.


----------



## GM_Grimmy (Nov 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Go away troll.


He's an idiot, not a troll. Read his sig................o wait, silly monkeys can't read. Have a banana then.


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Nov 10, 2015)

GM_Grimmy said:


> He's an idiot, not a troll. Read his sig................o wait, silly monkeys can't read. Have a banana then.


Do I know you?


----------



## GM_Grimmy (Nov 10, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Do I know you?


Maybe. I bought a pair of Idiot shirts a very long time ago. I don't know if it was you that were selling them though. Other than that, I'm pretty sure you don't. I'm terrible with names here and worse putting names with faces.


----------



## weedkilla (Nov 10, 2015)

I'm just thinking out loud, but I'd like to hear if any of you think I'm on the right track.
I've seen a few at/mt saws that stumble off idle and I believe there are two reasons.
One, too lean on the low side.
Two, fuel puddling from being too rich on the low side.

As we have no facility to directly adjust the low needle we have to find work arounds. These include -
Allowing the saw to run with the brake on at fast idle. Letting the saw adjust the mixture off idle. This assumes that the saw can adjust the mixture at this point, but is harsh on the clutch.

Adjusting the air bleed on husky 540/550 carbs.

Using a fuel/oil mix that has different combustion qualities. Swapping to a 40:1 yamalube mix from 32:1 stihl ultra gave me a richer mix and removed the stumble in my 550 and helped the 540.

Allowing the saw to breathe more air at low speeds sucks more fuel through the low jet. Mufflers mods, higher flow air filters and more compression all give a richer low speed condition. Trimming throttle plates is in the same list of fixes.


Am I on the right track? Any other ideas?
I have a feeling that husky have gone a little lean on the low side, stihl a little rich, but I'm going on only handful of saws and some guesswork. I'm just trying to a systematic diagnosis straight in my head.


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 10, 2015)

weedkilla said:


> I'm just thinking out loud, but I'd like to hear if any of you think I'm on the right track.
> I've seen a few at/mt saws that stumble off idle and I believe there are two reasons.
> One, too lean on the low side.
> Two, fuel puddling from being too rich on the low side.
> ...


I couldn't have said it better. I think you're spot on.


----------



## Moparmyway (Nov 10, 2015)

I have to agree ......... my 661 had the off idle stumble with a wide open muffler and really open screen ............... lost it once the max flow was on.

Now its compression has been bumped and its openings have been tweaked, and she is angry at everything, all day angry .................... not just a temper tantrum, but angry at the world angry and no stumble



Brad .................. did you run it without an air filter ?
Do you want a green max flow (IIRC its 40 pore) ?
I have an extra laying around


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 10, 2015)

Thanks for the offer, I really appreciate it. I have not run it again. I have a green filter element on order and it should be here shortly. I also have another muffler here to try should the filter not cure it.


----------



## chris zautner (Nov 10, 2015)

ya i'm paying attention to this thread a lot because as some of you know i have a stihl ms 441 rcm that stumbles of idle a lot about every time when it gets hot. when you press the throttle trigger it boges but not like a normal bog were the rpm dips and then goes up it, hesitates to go to full rpm. and it has been to the dealer several times to be fixed and still the problem isn't fixed. and now sense they replaced the fuel solenoid and when the saw is hot i go to put the saw on the ground to move the log which takes about 10 seconds and i go to pick up the saw it shuts off i start it up again and it does the same.


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Nov 10, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks for the offer, I really appreciate it. I have not run it again. I have a green filter element on order and it should be here shortly. I also have another muffler here to try should the filter not cure it.



Sorry if I missed it... But have you tried 50:1 fuel/oil ratio? I know its not your preference, but perhaps in the name of science... I'm on the same thought as @weedkilla ,the richer fuel mix may just be enough to compensate for your L side stumble/lean idle issue.


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## blsnelling (Nov 10, 2015)

I'm running 800 2T Off-Road at 40:1. I have not tried 50:1. I personally think this is a rich stumble, but I could be wrong. I think of a lean stumble bogging and hesitating when going WOT. This saw stutters and stumbles, then grabs and goes.


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## 94BULLITT (Nov 10, 2015)

My 441 had a bog but I was able to get rid of it with some tunning.





Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## blsnelling (Nov 10, 2015)

94BULLITT said:


> My 441 had a bog but I was able to get rid of it with some tunning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WHAT?!!!!!!!!! Can I hook up my EFILive, lol


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## chris zautner (Nov 10, 2015)

94BULLITT said:


> My 441 had a bog but I was able to get rid of it with some tunning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well chit why you holding out on us


----------



## chris zautner (Nov 10, 2015)

how do you get the firmware from stihl?


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## blsnelling (Nov 10, 2015)

I could sure use a little of that tuning on my ported MS661C!


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## mcobb2 (Nov 10, 2015)

chris zautner said:


> ya i'm paying attention to this thread a lot because as some of you know i have a stihl ms 441 rcm that stumbles of idle a lot about every time when it gets hot. when you press the throttle trigger it boges but not like a normal bog were the rpm dips and then goes up it, hesitates to go to full rpm. and it has been to the dealer several times to be fixed and still the problem isn't fixed. and now sense they replaced the fuel solenoid and when the saw is hot i go to put the saw on the ground to move the log which takes about 10 seconds and i go to pick up the saw it shuts off i start it up again and it does the same.


Same here... Trying to fix as we speak!


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## Mastermind (Nov 10, 2015)

I've ported about 20 661s........so far no bogs. One did fry though. I'm fixing it and trying the new coil.


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## chris zautner (Nov 10, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> Same here... Trying to fix as we speak!


let me know what you do to it


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## blsnelling (Nov 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I've ported about 20 661s........so far no bogs. One did fry though. I'm fixing it and trying the new coil.


Lucky me, lol. Better mine than a customers saw though.


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## mcobb2 (Nov 10, 2015)

chris zautner said:


> let me know what you do to it


So far tried adjusting metering lever, adjusting idle screw, solenoids, switches, tried throwing saw through the wall, and most recently the fresh air butterfly. Testing tomorrow as it was 5 when I made adjustment. 

A few weeks ago I band aided it by opening idle a little more but then after a while it started holding RPM's when returning to idle. I think brad is right and they need to hand the laptop over.


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## chris zautner (Nov 10, 2015)

wow you have done a lot to that saw. if it acts up funny again which i hope it doesn't could you make a video of it?


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 10, 2015)

chris zautner said:


> wow you have done a lot to that saw. if it acts up funny again which i hope it doesn't could you make a video of it?


He has a video of it.
He texted it to me.


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## mcobb2 (Nov 10, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> He has a video of it.
> He texted it to me.


Yeah and if the d-bag phone would stop being a hag I'd upload it...


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## Adirondackstihl (Nov 10, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> Yeah and if the d-bag phone would stop being a hag I'd upload it...


Thought ewe gots a new wun?


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## mcobb2 (Nov 10, 2015)

This is a test to see if I can even post pics


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## mcobb2 (Nov 10, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Thought ewe gots a new wun?


I did... This how Randy feels all the time? Can't get videos to cooperate at all?


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## funky sawman (Nov 10, 2015)

INTERESTING....


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## funky sawman (Nov 10, 2015)

The 661 will be one heck of a saw once they have the bugs worked out of it, by then the 572xp will be out and gonna have to put it in the ringer


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## 94BULLITT (Nov 10, 2015)

94BULLITT said:


> My 441 had a bog but I was able to get rid of it with some tunning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't really have software to tune a mtronic saw. I was just joking.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

Sorry to hear of the issues some are having with their saws. 

It sounds like you're all on the right track. That said I am surprise that some of these saws can't seem to compensate. I mean fuel quality, oil quality/quantity, air temperature, filter cleanliness and elevation are all going to effect the amount of air going through the engine. IMHO these systems should have been developed with this in mind. I know most seem to really like their Mtronic/AT saws and my 261 ran fine it's first time out, but I personally would stay away from theses saws if reliability is a big concern, just too may issue big and small. Having to swap out filters just to get your saw running correctly is what it is, somewhat comical.

Another thought, maybe they're setup not to be messed with, in the name of keeping emissions down. 



Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## mcobb2 (Nov 11, 2015)

http://s404.photobucket.com/user/cobby08/media/C74A8312-46FF-421D-8816-784E4F6B76F7.mp4.html
This was better then it was but still annoying.


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## porsche965 (Nov 11, 2015)

-O- Problems on the ones I've had, including a First Generation from 2013. Very good saws. And I don't talk about a saw I don't personally own and haven't pushed hard.

Critiquing a product without ownership is what I find comical lol. 

I've actually put a couple of tanks through this particular saw and other than the "on occasion" millisecond stumble she runs very strong. I could put up a whole lot of production with this saw in a day. 

Let's not toss the baby out with the bath water, especially since this saw has been pretty well modified to begin with. If I wanted another 661 and this saw was for sale it would be more than welcome to come work with me.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> http://s404.photobucket.com/user/cobby08/media/C74A8312-46FF-421D-8816-784E4F6B76F7.mp4.html
> This was better then it was but still annoying.


Looks like a good running saw overall. Have you played with the meeting lever hight, or the pop off pressure? Brad lowered the meeting lever in a 441 and it seemed to do the trick. I had a local tree company's 362c the other day that had a bad bog to it, lowering the lever hight seemed to almost complete eliminate the issue. 

I think with time we'll learn to work around the constraints the manufacturers and the epa has givin us. Hopefully real fuel injection is just around the corner, electronically controlled carb's are not the answer!


----------



## porsche965 (Nov 11, 2015)

Does FI have any electronics associated with their function?


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

I believe this is more of a carb issue than electronic. I've had these symptoms in newer standard carb saws as well, all do to how lean they sometimes have to run. What's hurt the most is the transition from idle to wot. I believe full fuel injection will eliminate the problem. Electronically controlled carbs are an oxymoron. The application failed automobiles as well.


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## mcobb2 (Nov 11, 2015)

Tried will little results.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

Try placing something under the meeting spring for more resistance. If that doesn't work cut a loop out of the spring. After that I start thinking about altering the throttle plate notch, but that can get you into trouble fast if you go too far.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

To me, its rather simple.
The stock 661 is known to alter the shape of the bellows intake at WOT.
Thats pretty telling right there !


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> To me, its rather simple.
> The stock 661 is known to alter the shape of the bellows intake at WOT.
> Thats pretty telling right there !


At wot, or during acceleration do to the sudden vacuum? Reinforcing the bellows shouldn't be all that complicated, and believe me it's been done before.[emoji6]


----------



## Stihl working hard (Nov 11, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Go away troll.


LMAO


----------



## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> At wot, or during acceleration do to the sudden vacuum? Reinforcing the bellows shouldn't be all that complicated, and believe me it's been done before.[emoji6]


At WOT ............. but not when piss revving, only when cutting.
The bellows intake on the 661 is re-enforced within the bellows itself with those 2 fandangled rubber washers.

I believe its more that the carb cant react to the HUGE vacuum - then the sudden throttle chop just leaves the carb in such a state that it cant respond quickly enough ............ the fuel puddling is the result.

Run a 661 @ WOT during a large cut, then chop the throttle as the chain breaks through ............ she winds down, then when she is close to idle, she picks up RPM like a vacuum leak for a split second, then it idles fine.

Mine lost the stumble when the restricted POS HD2 was gutted and the Max Flow was installed .............. funny thing was that the bellows intake stopped deforming too ......... it used to suck in a little between the carb plate and the bellows with the stock HD2 @ WOT in the cut.

I too believe that Stihl should have done better with the 661, but I dont mind getting to the bottom of the mystery that mine had ................. it was unknown territory on a new saw, and the problem on mine has been alleviated. She runs like a pizzed off bull now !!!


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

Sounds like you figured it out. I find it hard to believe Stihl didn't account for the cfm requirements. What happens when the filter gets dirty?

Brad's 661 was really strong, and didn't miss a beat with the 32" bar buried in an ash stump, but it did have that off idle bog from time to time. Hopefully this will fix the problem.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> Sounds like you figured it out. I find it hard to believe Stihl account for the cfm requirements. What happens when the filter gets dirty?
> 
> Brad's 661 was really strong, and didn't miss a beat with the 32" bar buried in an ash stump, but it did have that off idle bog from time to time. Hopefully this will fix the problem.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


36"


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## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> Sounds like you figured it out. I find it hard to believe Stihl account for the cfm requirements. What happens when the filter gets dirty?
> 
> Brad's 661 was really strong, and didn't miss a beat with the 32" bar buried in an ash stump, but it did have that off idle bog from time to time. Hopefully this will fix the problem.



Lets look at it this way ........... 
- The carb is "supposed" to compensate for restricted air filters .......... but a hopped up 91cc saw takes in more air than a stock 91cc saw
- Stihl redesigned the intake boot and offers one that is stiffer and without any bellows.
- 91cc is a HUGE draw, and the same HD2 filter is used on saws 1/2 its displacement (I believe the HD2 on the 661 is Stihls biggest mistake) 
- IIRC, Brads has the newly designed straight intake ........... ?????


I really want to see how Brads responds to the Max Flow - and am waiting on the edge of my seat to hear from him on it.


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Stop it! I'm getting really anxious to try this filter. I was sceptical at first, but it's hard to deny practical experience. Like I told someone the other day, without evidence it's just an opinion. You've provided the evidence. I'm cautiously optimistic


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## mdavlee (Nov 11, 2015)

Stihl filters suck. I gave away the HD 2 I had. I don't run a single stihl filter on the 044 and 046s.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

On another note, I can't really knock Stihl or MTronic design if this fixes it. I'm way outside the design parameters of this saw. This saw will hold 12,500+ with a 36" bar buried. It's happiest around 11,000-11,500. That's some real RPMs for a 90cc class saw. It'll just be an integral part of the mod.


----------



## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Stop it! I'm getting really anxious to try this filter. I was sceptical at first, but it's hard to deny practical experience. Like I told someone the other day, without evidence it's just an opinion. You've provided the evidence. I'm cautiously optimistic



I only provided the ramblings of an anal engineer on his own modified POS 91cc creamsickle, and suggested you consider the theory behind a better flowing air filter

I am hoping you have the same results because then I wouldnt feel like an azz


----------



## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> *Stihl filters suck*.
> 
> I gave away the HD 2 I had. I don't run a single stihl filter on the 044 and 046s.


QTLA !!

About the only thing I use the stock Stihl filter for is the frame. Makes for purchasing the Max Flow element only and saves me cabbage. In this light, I preferr the HD filter, so if anyone has any extra ones laying around, I'd be willing to grab them from ya !!!


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

Very interested to see how this goes. All in all it makes total sense, and is potentially an easy fix for Stihl, as I believe some stock saws have this issue as well?? 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

If the Max Flow dont fix Brads, I'd be willing to purchase the kit from him, and re-imburse for shipping if he dont want it ................. I could use it


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> On another note, I can't really knock Stihl or MTronic design if this fixes it. I'm way outside the design parameters of this saw. This saw will hold 12,500+ with a 36" bar buried. It's happiest around 11,000-11,500. That's some real RPMs for a 90cc class saw. It'll just be an integral part of the mod.


Agreed. But again if the filter becomes restricted when dirty what happens? As a dirty filter would essentially cause the same problem on a stock saw. Just thinking out loud here.


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> If the Max Flow dont fix Brads, I'd be willing to purchase the kit from him, and re-imburse for shipping if he dont want it ................. I could use it


I can't lose


----------



## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

Andyshine77 said:


> Agreed. But again if the filter becomes restricted when dirty what happens? As a dirty filter would essentially cause the same problem on a stock saw. Just thinking out loud here.


Think muffler opening on a stock 661


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## Stihlman441 (Nov 11, 2015)

Try running it without the filter,put a stocking or something over the carb throat.


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

I think I mentioned it earlier, but this only showed up after I removed the baffle in the muffler and further opened it up. I have another muffler to throw on to test that, but am unwilling to leave it that way. It improved performance. We just have to find a way to work around it.


----------



## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> I can't lose


No Sir ............ you cant !
You wont be out a single cent if you dont see a difference


----------



## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

Stihlman441 said:


> Try running it without the filter,put a stocking or something over the carb throat.


I would wait for the filter, just to ensure fines dont pass through


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> Think muffler opening on a stock 661


There you go.[emoji106]


----------



## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> I think I mentioned it earlier, but this only showed up after I removed the baffle in the muffler and further opened it up. I have another muffler to throw on to test that, but am unwilling to leave it that way. It improved performance. We just have to find a way to work around it.


I am going to order a new muffler for my 661 after the new year so I can play around


----------



## chris zautner (Nov 11, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> http://s404.photobucket.com/user/cobby08/media/C74A8312-46FF-421D-8816-784E4F6B76F7.mp4.html
> This was better then it was but still annoying.


my saw is just like that


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

I cured mine with needle height and proper adjustment of the tiny set screw that adjust the opening of the fresh air butterfly.


----------



## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> I think I mentioned it earlier, but this only showed up after I removed the baffle in the muffler and further opened it up. I have another muffler to throw on to test that, but am unwilling to leave it that way. It improved performance. We just have to find a way to work around it.




my guess - you have an imbalance in the system. Since you have exhaust opened up so much. So doing max flow and getting more air in will fix imbalance. 

Or 

you keep the same stock air filter setup and correct the imbalance by going back to a more restricted muffler. ie with a baffle and not as big of a exit port.


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Bottom line, it's a carb tuning issue that the MTronic can't handle. That's frustrating! All this saw needs is the tweak of an L needle.


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## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

Just because you can tune it out with a regular carb...I don't think means it (the imbalance) shouldn't be corrected. 

in other words - if you have that much going out and it needs that much L to tune it, ...maybe instead of just tuning it out we WANT more air coming into the system.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

It should be able to compensate.


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## big t double (Nov 11, 2015)

at this point id probably try punching it in the face...right in the damn face. throat punches usually correct things too....just throwing it out there.


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## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

fyi - i fixed the idaho saw by doing this. It had half the baffle cut out and a huge exit port. I put a stock muffler back in, did the reset, it took about 2 tanks but the bog went away. I then tried the 7/8" opening muffler and never had a problem.

I had the same problem with morparmyway's muffler when i tested it... which is opened up gigantic. But he has countered it with more air flow into the system via his air filter/ max flow filter mod.


This is why I think the 7/8" diameter hole is as large as u can go with a stock saw.

But the real question is. What is faster?

7/8" with + stock air filter setup?

OR

larger than 7/8" exit port + maybee the baffle removed? + max flow air filter mod

----------------------------------

at this point it would be an easy thing to test.

my 7/8" + stock filter setup
vs
morparmyway's muffler + air filter mod


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## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

Unquestionably ............ more air in = mo power out


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Is this to suggest that we should stop muffler modding otherwise stock saws? Of course not. Why don't other saws display these symptoms? Because we tune the carb after the mod and enjoy a saw that actually has better throttle response. I stand by my statement that this is a carb tuning issue. 

Now, that's not to say that a better air filter isn't a good idea and may show additional gains. I'm all for moving in that direction. I'm simply saying that's it's a misnomer to call this an imbalance. It's simply something that MTronic can't handle.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

There aint another big cube saw out with electronics.
Sucking gobs of air and trying to electronically manage the fuel curve with a restricted HD2 isnt as easy as some wish it to be


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## Mastermind (Nov 11, 2015)

Over thinking a simple issue at it's finest.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Over thinking a simple issue at it's finest.


Isnt this how gains were gotten in the first place ?


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## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

ok i'll try one more time...

imbalance - normally carb lets you tune it out. Should you tune it out? No. You should add more air. If you do tune it out then your still not ideal power. 661 just doesn't let you do that. Right now it's saying restrict the out flow (muffler). Or give me more air.

put the (more restricted ) muff porche965 is sending you, on it. and it'll fix it.

OR

put the max flow on and it'll fix it.

all u gotta do is fix the imbalance. one side of it or the other. The question is which side makes more power? I think that is very obvious. Put the max flow on your saw.


ps. you'd probably have the SAME problem or some other problem if you kept the muffler stock and put the max flow mod on the back. just another imbalance.


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## SquareFile (Nov 11, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> Isnt this how gains were gotten in the first place ?



I agree. If test weren't being done by people then ported 661's using h1r @32:1 wouldn't be any faster than stock 661's using Wal-Mart oil @ a couple glugs:1


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> put the (more restricted ) muff porche965 is sending you, on it. and it'll fix it.
> 
> OR
> 
> put the max flow on and it'll fix it.


That's exactly what I'll be doing. I'm just waiting on the filter element to show up. The muffler is here.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Over thinking a simple issue at it's finest.


Enlighten us.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Is this to suggest that we should stop muffler modding otherwise stock saws? Of course not. Why don't other saws display these symptoms? Because we tune the carb after the mod and enjoy a saw that actually has better throttle response. I stand by my statement that this is a carb tuning issue.
> 
> Now, that's not to say that a better air filter isn't a good idea and may show additional gains. I'm all for moving in that direction. I'm simply saying that's it's a misnomer to call this an imbalance. It's simply something that MTronic can't handle.


I've ran saws without any filter at all numerous times.[emoji6] Yes more air is better that's not the issue. What is a problem, is the fact we can't use a little orange screwdriver to fix this problem, if you want a really strong saw to run with its stock air filter. 

Remember most people that use saws professionally don't even know or care about ported saws, so it may not be a problem, or a problem Stihl even cares about. But in my mind, and if this is in fact what's causing the bogging issue, the filter is too small/restrictive.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

What filter is on a new MS880?


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## big t double (Nov 11, 2015)

hd2 0000 140 4402. same as 660


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

big t double said:


> hd2 0000 140 4402. same as 660


Hmmm.


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## chris zautner (Nov 11, 2015)

hd2


blsnelling said:


> What filter is on a new MS880?


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## big t double (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Hmmm.


your thoughts?


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## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

tuning it out = LESS THAN max power. 

fix imbalance = close to max power.

Max power = what degree of inflow and out flow is the best? Since ideal tuning is taken care of by the mtronic. So all that is left to do is to test various setups. One end of this spectrum is pretty much fixed...ie. the max flow mod. You can't really change that much. So you stick the max flow on and then start opening up the muffler til you stop gaining power. Then you have the ideal setup.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 11, 2015)

Have you guys tried 50:1 like stihl recommends to take care of the bog ?


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> So you stick the max flow on and then *start opening up the muffler til you stop gaining power*. Then you have the ideal setup.


This saw makes the most power with as much opening as you can give it. Max power isn't what's going to make this saw run right.

This is a tuning issue, plain and simple. Something in the system will always be the bottle neck. Remove one and it will be something else. The problem here is that you can't tune the saw.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Have you guys tried 50:1 like stihl recommends to take care of the bog ?


No I haven't. I don't really consider that an option.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

big t double said:


> your thoughts?


If it flows enough for a 880, you'd sure think it's enough for a 661.


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## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

well my testing shows it makes most power with huge openings on small logs and falls behind on large logs. I'm not going to pretend to understand why . But it does. And the fact is, is that you haven't THOROUGHLY tested it on large logs. So your statement of it makes the most power is somewhat false.

Which is why I know my muff modded 661 could get damn close to your ported 661 on a 36" bar 3 back to back cuts on a big ass log. But once you fix the imbalance... 


1. the imbalance is the problem with your saw
2. max power = finding the right degree of opening up...that is hard and requires a lot of testing.

what you want to do is, say these mods are good enough and then tune the saw for the mods. The saw is tuning itself* ideally* all the time...you can't just say these mods are good enough. You have to actually FIND good mods that work with the ideal tune that the saw is finding. ...not what you THINK is good.


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## big t double (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> If it flows enough for a 880, you'd sure think it's enough for a 661.


I think the 661 filter is a little bigger too...no?


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## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> If it flows enough for a 880, you'd sure think it's enough for a 661.




and that is another possibility...

661 filter (which is way bigger) may be ideal and your muffler mod may be too much. The max flow may actually not add anything to the system. It may balance your muff mod out. But it may not be ideal and produce max power.

With out actually doing a lot of serious timed testing. It's just a bunch of I think this is best, or it "felt" stronger, or "sounded" better, so it's the best.


serious testing... which you'll never actually do - and so here we are!


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> Which is why* I know my muff modded 661 could get damn close to your ported 661 on a 36" bar 3 back to back cuts on a big ass log. * But once you fix the imbalance...


You are hallucinating again. Go take your meds. I don't see your saw holding 12,500+ with a 36" bar buried in wood. You're talking WAY outside your realm of knowledge.

To further show you have no idea what you're talking about, this has no affect on WOT performance. It runs perfectly.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> saw holding 12,500+ with a 36" bar buried in wood.


Mine holds pretty much the same as those RPM's now Brad, the hardline bounces around between 11,500 and 12,500 ................I wont pretend to know everything here, I just know what changes were made to mine and what effects those changes brought about.


Before we go diving into rocket science guys, lets see how Brads responds to the Max Flow after he installs it and does the reset.

I think its a matter of the carb response time to vacuum in the intake tract. The Max Flow allows the vacuum to get back to atmospheric faster


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## redfin (Nov 11, 2015)

I'm curious what elevations those with the "bog" are at?


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

RB, why are you striking out at me simply because I don't agree with your logic, or rather the lack there of? You have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to mods.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> it makes most power with huge openings on small logs and falls behind on large logs.



I think that is due to the carb compensating for the increased vacuum the HD2 creates


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> Mine holds pretty much the same as those RPM's now Brad, the hardline bounces around between 11,500 and 12,500 ................I wont pretend to know everything here, I just know what changes were made to mine and what effects those changes brought about.
> 
> 
> Before we go diving into rocket science guys, lets see how Brads responds to the Max Flow after he installs it and does the reset


Exactly. We don't even know what the cause is yet. As usual, RB, you're again jumping to conclusions before you know the facts.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

redfin said:


> I'm curious what elevations those with the "bog" are at?


 I am usually under 300 feet elevation ............. sometimes right on the water


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## chris zautner (Nov 11, 2015)

i'm at 312 ft where my 441 cm bogs


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> what you want to do is, say these mods are good enough and then tune the saw for the mods. The saw is tuning itself* ideally* all the time...you can't just say these mods are good enough. You have to actually FIND good mods that work with the ideal tune that the saw is finding. ...not what you THINK is good.


Seriously? Is that what you call having had two different cylinders and four different pistons in my saw, all for testing purposes. There's no need for you to lash out like this because of your own insecurities.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

redfin said:


> I'm curious what elevations those with the "bog" are at?


Only a few hundred feet above sea level.


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## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

Neutral corner guys ........................
I fixxed my 661 problems.
Lets see if we can get another to repeat this before we all have visions of grandour

BRAD ............ did that filter show up yet ??
I hope the mail dude runs


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 11, 2015)

I have not tried it ,but if i remember right in redbulls testing ,his test saw ran the best at 50 to 1 .i am just throwing this out there ,maybe the m-tronic is not happy with more oil .


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> well my testing shows it makes most power with huge openings on small logs and falls behind on large logs. I'm not going to pretend to understand why . But it does. And the fact is, is that you haven't THOROUGHLY tested it on large logs. So your statement of it makes the most power is somewhat false.
> 
> Which is why I know my muff modded 661 could get damn close to your ported 661 on a 36" bar 3 back to back cuts on a big ass log. But once you fix the imbalance...
> 
> ...


I deleted my other posts. I have one question for you. Why? Why the blatant accusations, totally unfounded I might add?

Furthermore, your "test" have shown little to nothing that has any bearing at all on a saw like this. And if you really think your MMd 661 could hold a candle to this ported 661, well, you must be blind. This saw will hold 12,500+ with a 36" bar buried in wood.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Moparmyway said:


> Neutral corner guys ........................
> I fixxed my 661 problems.
> Lets see if we can get another to repeat this before we all have visions of grandour
> 
> ...


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

Or the testing process is flawed. Or the Mtronic system is flawed. And on and on. Until things are done in a controlled environment, we have learned little to nothing from RB's so called tests, besides the fact he didn't know how to run a saw at the time.


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## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> I deleted my other posts. I have one question for you. Why? Why the blatant accusations, totally unfounded I might add?
> 
> Furthermore, your "test" have shown little to nothing that has any bearing at all on a saw like this. And if you really think your MMd 661 could hold a candle to this ported 661, well, you must be blind. This saw will hold 12,500+ with a 36" bar buried in wood.




hold a candle to your ported 661 - my challenge stands. I will lose by less than 10% to your "ported" 661 as it is right now with your gutted muffler and stock air filter....if not win. your choice of 36" bar , your choice of chain, your choice of gas and oil. 34-36" Hardwood, 3 back to back cuts no rest. Time each one and take the total time.


why??? you do little testing to come up with what you say is the best. then you charge people money!


Proved all you name calling adolescents wrong before with H1R. I'll do it again against brad's "ported" 661.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 11, 2015)

Can we start takin bets..i want in on this.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Come on up. Back up your talk big boy.


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## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

nah u come here. i actually have big wood to cut and test on. and im always paying for stuff, putting in countless hours. About time you put up some time, effort and money.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Red Bull, you are seriously delusional. The only thing you have done it's WASTE money! When I consider all your family savings that you've wasted, on tests that have proven little to nothing, I just shake my head in amazement. You act like you've given so much for this site, yet I ask myself what? Dude, you are still learning how to just run a saw. That nullifies any test results you may have. But what have you shown us? That one bar runs 20° hotter than another? Who cares? Seriously! Trust me, I will not be coming your way to prove anything. I don't need to. Seriously man, you need to see a shrink.


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## 94BULLITT (Nov 11, 2015)

What kind of gas are you running in the 661 and how many tanks have been ran through it?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## fordf150 (Nov 11, 2015)




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## Trx250r180 (Nov 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Can we start takin bets..i want in on this.


I bet my Roadrunner will take your mustang ........


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## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

Brad, you can try and marginalize me all you want but I've tested more and shown more solid results than you've dreamed of. My tests aren't specifically for this site. I share them/post them, yes. But, I'm not out to prove anything to anyone except myself. If they help others...awesome. But, I'm not foolish enough to think that, that many people care about my tests. ...and when I'm done testing, I'll walk away, and you'll still be here, spreading what you "THINK makes sense" and still be taking people's money with your screamers. 

You said I was a moron, stupid, delusional, retarded and a few other choice names, when I said I would challenge a ported 661 on 32:1 h1r. I did my home work on that and proved ya all wrong. 

I've done my home work on your 661... 

It would be close. 

and your just scared, I'll be right again.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 11, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> I bet my Roadrunner will take your mustang ........



Thats enough with the hate..theres plenty here already.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> hold a candle to your ported 661 - my challenge stands. I will lose by less than 10% to your "ported" 661 as it is right now with your gutted muffler and stock air filter....if not win. your choice of 36" bar , your choice of chain, your choice of gas and oil. 34-36" Hardwood, 3 back to back cuts no rest. Time each one and take the total time.
> 
> 
> why??? you do little testing to come up with what you say is the best. then you charge people money!
> ...



You proved nothing with your tests, and have mostly ignored the advice of those with decades of experience. This shows true immaturity and stubbornness. Even then I still appreciate your efforts, however misguided they are.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Red Bull, just go away. You suffer from delusions of grandeur worse than anyone I've ever seen.

Your testing methodology is so full of holes and assumptions it's not even funny. The sad thing is, you don't even know it, even when told clearly, you can't see it.

BTW, you haven't proven ANYTHING. Quit running your mouth, wasting your money on meaningless tests, and I'll show you what a ported 661 runs like. Put you're money where your mouth is. Your the one with all the delusional talk. Either SHUT UP or put up!!!


----------



## maico490 (Nov 11, 2015)




----------



## Ray Bell (Nov 11, 2015)

maico490 said:


> View attachment 460499


OH NO, tell me it ain't so, this is a joke right?


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

For those of you that don't know what's going on here, RB is just a little cry baby because I showed him his pathetic testing methodology and wouldn't port his saw for free. 

In the beginning, I tried to support RB. As time went on, it became more and more clear that he didn't have a clue what he was doing. Yet, I tried to stay cordial. He asked me *multiple* times over a course of months to port his saw. But, because he can't run a saw, I wasn't willing to port his saw unless there was actually something in it for me. I told him I'd port his saw IF HE had it tested on a dyno both before and after the porting, knowing that his testing proved nothing. When the dyno couldn't be done, he got all butt hurt that I wouldn't port his saw for free. (Yes, this is same guy begged me to port his saw, repeatedly) He had the audacity to start a thread and tried to call me out as a liar, just as he'll do again as soon as I post this. Of course, the gloves came off at this point. Here he is again today, slinging mud, making false accusations, and still trying to convince us that we should value a 5° difference in bar temps, lol. This guy is pathetic. Instead of lashing out like a child, you should go learn how to listen to a saw and hold it in its optimal RPM instead trying to find a chain that will do it for you.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 11, 2015)

Dis fool says alllll yalllll are crazy.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> I've done my home work on your 661...


What's this supposed to mean? Did someone tell you that my saw has a stumble off idle? News flash! I got another news flash for you buddy. It has no affect on WOT.

Show me a vid of your saw holding RPMs like this with a 36" bar nearly buried.


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> View attachment 460509
> 
> 
> Dis fool says alllll yalllll are crazy.


I know I'm crazy.  RB is too delusional to know it.


----------



## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Red Bull, just go away. You suffer from delusions of grandeur worse than anyone I've ever seen.
> 
> Your testing methodology is so full of holes and assumptions it's not even funny. The sad thing is, you don't even know it, even when told clearly, you can't see it.
> 
> BTW, you haven't proven ANYTHING. Quit running your mouth, wasting your money on meaningless tests, and I'll show you what a ported 661 runs like. Put you're money where your mouth is. Your the one with all the delusional talk. Either SHUT UP or put up!!!




your 10% over stock at best... So I'm going to make that up with my muff modded 661.


Then when I get my Tree Monkeyed 661s. I will SHOW YOU what a ported 661 should run like!


you couldn't even dream up a test that was fair. I've seen your vids. You favor your little screaming 390...you couldn't even begin to be unbiased.

and it's put up or shut up. ya got them words turned around. 




blsnelling said:


> For those of you that don't know what's going on here, RB is just a little cry baby because I showed him his pathetic testing methodology and wouldn't port his saw for free.
> 
> In the beginning, I tried to support RB. As time went on, it became more and more clear that he didn't have a clue what he was doing. Yet, I tried to stay cordial. He asked me *multiple* times over a course of months to port his saw. But, because he can't run a saw, I wasn't willing to port his saw unless there was actually something in it for me. I told him I'd port his saw IF HE had it tested on a dyno both before and after the porting, knowing that his testing proved nothing. When the dyno couldn't be done, he got all butt hurt that I wouldn't port his saw for free. (Yes, this is same guy begged me to port his saw, repeatedly) He had the audacity to start a thread and tried to call me out as a liar, just as he'll do again as soon as I post this. Of course, the gloves came off at this point. Here he is again today, slinging mud, making false accusations, and still trying to convince us that we should value a 5° difference in bar temps, lol. This guy is pathetic. Instead of lashing out like a child, you should go learn how to listen to a saw and hold it in its optimal RPM instead trying to find a chain that will do it for you.




yeah that's what happened...


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> What's this supposed to mean? Did someone tell you that my saw has a stumble off idle? News flash! I got another news flash for you buddy. It has no affect on WOT.
> 
> Show me a vid of your saw holding RPMs like this with a 36" bar nearly buried.




Thats a fine running saw brad.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> your 10% over stock at best... So I'm going to make that up with my muff modded 661.


And you would know this how? No one else, besides Andre, has even run this saw in its current configuration.

And my 390? Wow, you really are desperate.


----------



## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> And you would know this how? No one else, besides Andre, has even run this saw in its current configuration.
> 
> And my 390? Wow, you really are desperate.




no one is desperate here... Except you bro. 

quitting time. later dude.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Nov 11, 2015)

I really wish you 2 would put the past behind you and shake hands and see the good in each other instead of beating each other down ,you are both valuable members to the site and should work together instead of against each other .


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## redbull660 (Nov 11, 2015)

if BS will stop making sh*t up...yeah maybe.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> I really wish you 2 would put the past behind you and shake hands and see the good in each other instead of beating each other down ,you are both valuable members to the site and should work together instead of against each other .


I couldn't agree with you more. I've tried, multiple times. But, when he comes in my thread, unprovoked, and telling lies, I'm going to tell the truth about him. Maybe I'm wrong in doing so, but that's how it is.


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> your 10% over stock at best... So I'm going to make that up with my muff modded 661.



So tell me how you get this notion that my saw is only 10% faster than stock.


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## coltont (Nov 11, 2015)

Anybody want cheese with there whine?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

coltont said:


> Anybody want cheese with there whine?
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


No, but I'd sure like a nice NY Stip!


----------



## Moparmyway (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> No, but I'd sure like a nice NY Stip!



I have lived in NY my whole life (except military service) ............. what is NY Stip ?


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

It's a NY Strip, only with a stutter, lol


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

Hey RB, your saw is making the exact same stutter at the 0:15 mark. What muffler configuration is it running here?


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Hey RB, your saw is making the exact same stutter at the 0:15 mark. What muffler configuration is it running here?



Nothing wrong there he just needs to open up the L a little. [emoji8]


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## big t double (Nov 11, 2015)

So....is the bog fixed yet?


----------



## mcobb2 (Nov 11, 2015)

chris zautner said:


> i'm at 312 ft where my 441 cm bogs


I'm at 1,100... No luck here yet.


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## Magnumitis (Nov 11, 2015)

MS461 FTW!!!


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## chris zautner (Nov 11, 2015)

send me a pm


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Can we start takin bets..i want in on this.


2:1 odds right now in Vegas. I'll check Atlantic city later[emoji41]


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 11, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> 2:1 odds right now in Vegas. I'll check Atlantic city later[emoji41]



Put me down for 100


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Put me down for 100


Who you taking?[emoji6]


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 11, 2015)

BEEP BEEP!!


----------



## mcobb2 (Nov 11, 2015)

chris zautner said:


> send me a pm


http://s404.photobucket.com/user/cobby08/media/AE7AE800-6039-4C87-A9F3-B9C6CA286983.mp4.html Here is today's runs...


----------



## chris zautner (Nov 11, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> http://s404.photobucket.com/user/cobby08/media/AE7AE800-6039-4C87-A9F3-B9C6CA286983.mp4.html Here is today's runs...


yikes that's bad. that's a little worse than mine


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## banana boat (Nov 11, 2015)

My oil is better than your oil


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## coltont (Nov 11, 2015)

I Peanut oil so it smells like french fries when I cut. Gets dicey sometimes when there are bears around...

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Stihl working hard (Nov 11, 2015)

redfin said:


> I'm curious what elevations those with the "bog" are at?


Iam at sea level runs lean outa the cut for maybe 5/8 seconds then it recovers


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 11, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> BEEP BEEP!!


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## redfin (Nov 11, 2015)

coltont said:


> I Peanut oil so it smells like french fries when I cut. Gets dicey sometimes when there are bears around...
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



Colton, I give you some wmo to run. I'll take that peanut oil to run in my loader. Kthanxbye.


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## coltont (Nov 11, 2015)

Think we should start an oil thread about it? Brad and red bull can be the judges on what's the best?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## fordf150 (Nov 11, 2015)




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## Stihl working hard (Nov 11, 2015)

coltont said:


> Think we should start an oil thread about it? Brad and red bull can be the judges on what's the best?
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


There will be no winner there I feel


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

I'm glad to see it lightened up in here. PM Sawmikaze with your bets, lol.


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## Stihl working hard (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> I'm glad to see it lightened up in here. PM Sawmikaze with your bets, lol.


It really was starting to get a little hectic here Brad


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## SAWMIKAZE (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> I'm glad to see it lightened up in here. PM Sawmikaze with your bets, lol.



Big mike is my bookie on this deal..PM him


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## mcobb2 (Nov 11, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> I'm glad to see it lightened up in here. PM Sawmikaze with your bets, lol.


I know I check out for a few hours to play with my coloring book at bam it's like a regular old argument. Sawdust got real, fast...


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## coltont (Nov 11, 2015)

I think we should have a group "saftey meeting".

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## big t double (Nov 11, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> I know I check out for a few hours to play with my coloring book....


Dora, curious George, my little pony?! Your leaving out a lot of key details here and it's killing me...


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## mcobb2 (Nov 11, 2015)

coltont said:


> I think we should have a group "saftey meeting".
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## mcobb2 (Nov 11, 2015)

big t double said:


> Dora, curious George, my little pony?! Your leaving out a lot of key details here and it's killing me...


Puh... I'm a grown boy. I don't mess with that kiddie stuff. Transformers...


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## big t double (Nov 11, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> Puh... I'm a grown boy. I don't mess with that kiddie stuff. Transformers...


Proper


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## LRains (Nov 11, 2015)

He-Man I have the POWER !!


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## fordf150 (Nov 11, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> Puh... I'm a grown boy. I don't mess with that kiddie stuff. Transformers...


I'm working my way through a doc mcstuffins coloring book


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## mdavlee (Nov 11, 2015)

Phineas and Ferb FTW!!!


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## tree monkey (Nov 11, 2015)

yall behave or i'll start posting vids again. where's randy when ya need him. now what was the name of that site?


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## big t double (Nov 11, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> I'm working my way through a doc mcstuffins coloring book


Daughters make you know things that you really don't want to admit you know....I applaud your honesty.


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## KenJax Tree (Nov 11, 2015)

Ruff ruff, Tweet, and Dave


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## blsnelling (Nov 11, 2015)

mcobb2 said:


> Sawdust got real, fast...


That made me laugh out loud


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## Mastermind (Nov 12, 2015)

tree monkey said:


> yall behave or i'll start posting vids again. where's randy when ya need him. now what was the name of that site?



I shake my head and laugh......then I go back to work. They can have this mess.


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## blsnelling (Nov 12, 2015)

Looks like I'll have the filter element tonight. I doubt I'll be able to test it before Saturday though.


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## blsnelling (Nov 12, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I shake my head and laugh......then I go back to work. They can have this mess.



How does this help us understand the stumble off idle that several have experienced?


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## cgraham1 (Nov 12, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> , you must be blind.





blsnelling said:


> Red Bull, you are seriously delusional.
> 
> Dude, you are still learning how to just run a saw.
> 
> Seriously man, you need to see a shrink.





blsnelling said:


> Red Bull, just go away. You suffer from delusions of grandeur worse than anyone I've ever seen.
> 
> Your the one with all the delusional talk.
> 
> SHUT UP!!





blsnelling said:


> For those of you that don't know what's going on here, RB is just a little cry baby
> 
> ...it became more and more clear that he didn't have a clue what he was doing.
> 
> ...





blsnelling said:


> RB is too delusional to know it.





blsnelling said:


> Wow, you really are desperate.





blsnelling said:


> But, when he comes in my thread, unprovoked, and telling lies, I'm going to tell the truth about him. Maybe I'm wrong in doing so, but that's how it is.





blsnelling said:


> Instead of lashing out like a child...


Interesting choice of words. 

And here I thought name calling was against the rules....


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## blsnelling (Nov 12, 2015)

cgraham1 said:


> Interesting choice of words.
> 
> And here I thought name calling was against the rules....
> View attachment 460709


Oh, so you choose to ignore what started it. So typical of you guys. Another member comes in my thread, breaking rules lashing out at another member, spreading nothing but LIES, yet you choose to put the blame on me. Talk about showing your colors!


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## cgraham1 (Nov 12, 2015)

Brad, why don't you just make your argument without all the name calling?

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/help/terms

*Forum Rules*

*2. *Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users. Flaming or abusing users in any way will not be tolerated and will lead to a warning.


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## lone wolf (Nov 12, 2015)

What did I miss?


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## blsnelling (Nov 12, 2015)

Breaking of that same rule by RedBull is what started this. Do you really expect me to be cordial to someone that is a flat out *LIAR* trying to damage my reputation? Try putting the blame where it lies instead of perpetuation a baseless character assassination that you and you buddies are responsible for. Why don't you just stay out of what doesn't concern you. Or, did I miss something and you're a mod now?


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## cgraham1 (Nov 12, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Breaking of that same rule by RedBull is what started this. Why don't you just stay out of what doesn't concern you. Or, did I miss something and you're a mod now?



Yep. I'm a mod now. 

Are you going to start acting like an adult, or continue down this same path? Last I checked, this was not BradSnellingSite, and as a member, I am free to post whatever I like, as long as it follows the forum rules... this thread is as much my concern as it is anybody else's that posted here. I have a ported 661, and find threads like this interesting. I would guess that many others that have posted here do not, but maybe I'm wrong?

It's just too bad we have to wade through all the ******** and bitchiness that goes on here, to get to the substance of some of these threads...


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## DrewUth (Nov 12, 2015)

Can I ask a question? I have never run a M-tronic saw, and have only run one Stihl in my life, and I don't even know what model it was offhand. So full disclosure, I love my simple saws.

I saw someone mention pulling the electronic stuff off and just putting a "standard" carb on. So why not toss a carb from an 066/660 (did I get those right?) on and see what happens? That would, from a troubleshooting perspective, eliminate a variable (the non-adjustable carb). Heck, I'd rather have a carb with screws on it than not any day.

Just an honest question!


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## cgraham1 (Nov 12, 2015)

If you go back a few (?) pages, before all the BS, there was mention of someone putting an 066 carb on one, and it was a direct fit. @mdavlee mentioned something about having to 'fool' the computer into thinking it was still M-tronic. And maybe the coil would need to be swapped out? I'm not very knowledgable on the subject, that's just what I remember reading somewhere.


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## mdavlee (Nov 12, 2015)

Hoping maybe we can find the right fooler and just be able to run the stock coil. I just need time and a 661 to fool with it.


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## cgraham1 (Nov 12, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> Hoping maybe we can find the right fooler and just be able to run the stock coil. I just need time and a 661 to fool with it.


Damn. If you wasn't so far away, I'd send you my 661 to play with. Shipping would be $150 round trip!!


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## mdavlee (Nov 12, 2015)

Depends on how big a box. I've sent several lately for $30-35.


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## LRains (Nov 12, 2015)

Im surprised no one has broken into the map setting, granted a tuner would be too big to mount to a saw but it would be a great start.


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## redbull660 (Nov 12, 2015)

There is a carb version of the 661 over in Europe. So maybe there is a European member here that would be willing to get the parts... Or maybe sell some here that really wanted one, a Carb version 661.



cgraham1 said:


> Damn. If you wasn't so far away, I'd send you my 661 to play with. Shipping would be $150 round trip!!



fedex been nicer to me lately than ups.




mdavlee said:


> Hoping maybe we can find the right fooler and just be able to run the stock coil. I just need time and a 661 to fool with it.



yeah but don't we want an Unlimited coil? heh


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## redfin (Nov 12, 2015)

Alright Mike I'll sacrifice my 661 for your silly research. Just send me that 2186


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## cgraham1 (Nov 12, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> Depends on how big a box. I've sent several lately for $30-35.


Tell you what, Mike. If you want to mess with it, I will send you my saw. I don't have an 066 carb to put on it, though. I'm interested in the @tree monkey fix, as well.


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## mdavlee (Nov 12, 2015)

Unlimited would be good. Be nice to have an easy coil to find on there.


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## mdavlee (Nov 12, 2015)

cgraham1 said:


> Tell you what, Mike. If you want to mess with it, I will send you my saw. I don't have an 066 carb to put on it, though. I'm interested in the @tree monkey fix, as well.


I have a carb with removeable jet. Treemonkey may figure it out without doing any of this other stuff.


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## lone wolf (Nov 12, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> Depends on how big a box. I've sent several lately for $30-35.


With insurance too?


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## cgraham1 (Nov 12, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> With insurance too?


Insurance?!!!! Pshhh! I like to live dangerously!


redfin said:


> Alright Mike I'll sacrifice my 661 for your silly research. Just send me that 2186


 Random ported saw pic of the day...


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## mdavlee (Nov 12, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> With insurance too?


Yes. Smaller the box the less it costs. Sent one to Illinois for $32 and one 300 miles in VA for $35. The box to VA had a 394 and the other a 372. Insured to 495 or something like that with ups


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## cgraham1 (Nov 12, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> Yes. Smaller the box the less it costs. Sent one to Illinois for $32 and one 300 miles in VA for $35. The box to VA had a 394 and the other a 372. Insured to 495 or something like that with ups


Yeah, but I think Ca is a little further away.


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## mdavlee (Nov 12, 2015)

Yep. Going to be sending Aaron a box sometime soon


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## big t double (Nov 12, 2015)

It would be interesting to hook this problematic 661 up to the mdg1 and see what the fuel settings are and compare them to a broken in stock 661.


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## coltont (Nov 12, 2015)

When my 661 **** the bed 6 out of the seven times it was on the shop the computer didn't show any issues . only one time it showed a fuel issue and that's when they replaced the controller. And all that did was polish the turd.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## cgraham1 (Nov 12, 2015)

I talked to Mike Lee, and if he doesn't come up with a 661 of his own, I will gladly send mine out to Tennessee for him to experiment with.

Now, I just need to learn how to run a chainsaw.


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## Marshy (Nov 13, 2015)

redbull660 said:


> well my testing shows it makes most power with huge openings on small logs and falls behind on large logs. I'm not going to pretend to understand why . But it does. And the fact is, is that you haven't THOROUGHLY tested it on large logs. So your statement of it makes the most power is somewhat false.
> 
> Which is why I know my muff modded 661 could get damn close to your ported 661 on a 36" bar 3 back to back cuts on a big ass log. But once you fix the imbalance...
> 
> ...





blsnelling said:


> For those of you that don't know what's going on here, RB is just a little cry baby because I showed him his pathetic testing methodology and wouldn't port his saw for free.
> 
> In the beginning, I tried to support RB. As time went on, it became more and more clear that he didn't have a clue what he was doing. Yet, I tried to stay cordial. He asked me *multiple* times over a course of months to port his saw. But, because he can't run a saw, I wasn't willing to port his saw unless there was actually something in it for me. I told him I'd port his saw IF HE had it tested on a dyno both before and after the porting, knowing that his testing proved nothing. When the dyno couldn't be done, he got all butt hurt that I wouldn't port his saw for free. (Yes, this is same guy begged me to port his saw, repeatedly) He had the audacity to start a thread and tried to call me out as a liar, just as he'll do again as soon as I post this. Of course, the gloves came off at this point. Here he is again today, slinging mud, making false accusations, and still trying to convince us that we should value a 5° difference in bar temps, lol. This guy is pathetic. Instead of lashing out like a child, you should go learn how to listen to a saw and hold it in its optimal RPM instead trying to find a chain that will do it for you.



Both of you received a public warning and 2 points for your behavior. You are both flaming each other and it is not allowed. You both allowed this to escalate from a discussion, to a challenge, to flaming and you bother are to blame. This violates terms of use Rule #2.

@redbull660, It is perfectly fine to have an opinion about how a saw should be modded or tuned and what you perceive as flaws however, it is not acceptable to ram it down their throat repeatedly and escalate it beyond a friendly challenge. You continued to badger the subject and flame about your opinions. Its quite simple, state your opinion and move on.

@blsnelling, You are also entitled to an opinion and have the right to defend your work but you also have to do it with class and not participate in flaming. The quoted post above is one an example of going too far and because of your participation in this matter you received the same reprimand.


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