# what to buy for a chainsaw mill- rookie



## T-Dozzer (May 10, 2018)

Hi folks,
Long time lurker, first time poster. Apologies if this gets asked a lot. I did a quick search and it wasn't specific enough to my question. I have a MS 280 I use for firewood and property clearing, but I consider my self a rookie compared to most of you. I cut around 10 cords per year.
I want to get into chainsaw milling, Mainly as a hobby and lumber procurement. I have decided on the Grandberg Alaskan mill. I will need a bigger saw. I want to stick with Stihl. I am torn on which model to get. Im mainly looking at used saws. Most of the wood will be fir and cedar and around 12-25 inches likely. The saw may also be used for firewood.
1- What saw and bar length do you recommend? I was thinking a MS 441 or possibly a MS 460 ( I found a 441 for $500)
2- What length of mill should I go with?

I will buy the mini mill later and just a circular saw in the meantime for edges.

thanks!


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## djones (May 10, 2018)

Welcome to the site and cuddo's in recognizing that a larger saw is needed. I have a 30" Granberg Mill that works just fine for the wood I have or plan to mill. I too just do it as a means to utilize my pine tree lot for more than just firewood. I have (3) 70 cc saws that I use for milling but find that an 80 cc will probably do a better job with less wear and tear on the saw. I am using McCulloch saws from the 1970's just because I like the sound and feel of old Magnesium. You will find some interesting reading in the milling section under Milling 101. They have several tips and ideas that you will find to be very helpful. A boat winch attached to your Granberg helps take a lot of strain off your back and legs. Raising the wood off the ground and placed on a tilted table or stand also helps. Let gravity do her job. A generous flow of oil and a slightly rich setting to your carb will also help prolong saw and chain life.


An extra 1" tube between the push handle and the left side rail (nearest the powerhead) would be very helpful in my opinion. Using a ladder or other straight board is essential for the first cut. I have used this method to mill trees from 14" to 26" and enjoy do so. Good luck and have fun milling.


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## T-Dozzer (May 10, 2018)

djones said:


> Welcome to the site and cuddo's in recognizing that a larger saw is needed. I have a 30" Granberg Mill that works just fine for the wood I have or plan to mill. I too just do it as a means to utilize my pine tree lot for more than just firewood. I have (3) 70 cc saws that I use for milling but find that an 80 cc will probably do a better job with less wear and tear on the saw. I am using McCulloch saws from the 1970's just because I like the sound and feel of old Magnesium. You will find some interesting reading in the milling section under Milling 101. They have several tips and ideas that you will find to be very helpful. A boat winch attached to your Granberg helps take a lot of strain off your back and legs. Raising the wood off the ground and placed on a tilted table or stand also helps. Let gravity do her job. A generous flow of oil and a slightly rich setting to your carb will also help prolong saw and chain life.
> View attachment 651457
> 
> An extra 1" tube between the push handle and the left side rail (nearest the powerhead) would be very helpful in my opinion. Using a ladder or other straight board is essential for the first cut. I have used this method to mill trees from 14" to 26" and enjoy do so. Good luck and have fun milling.



thanks, Ill check out the 101 deal. Lots to learn.


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## Brian72 (May 10, 2018)

Welcome. Get the biggest saw possible. It's definitely worth it for milling. A 28 inch bar would probably be a good starter. I run a 48" Granberg with a 28" and 36" bar. When I got it, my thought was just in case I wanted to go bigger, the mill has the capability. Good thing I ordered bigger because I just got a 50" bar. Also, if you buy a smaller Granberg, you can always expand later just by ordering longer rails.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk


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## T-Dozzer (May 11, 2018)

how big of bar could a MS 441 pull without damage in a CS mill? 
The reasoning behind leaning toward the 441 is I could use it as both my mill and general saw until. Then if I really get into it, Ill look for a BIG saw and use the 441 for edges.
thoughts? obviously I dont want to ruin a saw, but trying to kiil 2 birds with one stone sort of deal..


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## Brian72 (May 11, 2018)

T-Dozzer said:


> how big of bar could a MS 441 pull without damage in a CS mill?
> The reasoning behind leaning toward the 441 is I could use it as both my mill and general saw until. Then if I really get into it, Ill look for a BIG saw and use the 441 for edges.
> thoughts? obviously I dont want to ruin a saw, but trying to kiil 2 birds with one stone sort of deal..


I think you'd be fine with a 28" and probably even a 32". Running skip chain helps too. You may want to consider an auxiliary oiler. Have you considered the 461? According to specs, it's only an ounce more but you'll get an extra 1/2 hp. I'm running a 661 with a 28" and 36" and recently got a 50" bar but haven't tried it yet.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk


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## T-Dozzer (May 12, 2018)

well.. at the advice of folks on here, Ill probably pass on the 441 even though it is a good price. Ive heard some negative stuff about recently anyway.
sooo.. I found a used 461 on CL from a guy who buys used saws and resells them. It looks to be in pretty good shape. He wants $725. I know there is a recall on the 461, but it would get fixed for free.
Is $725 a good price assuming its in good condition?


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## BobL (May 13, 2018)

I use a 441 to mill stuff smaller than 20" in diameter and it has run flawlessly since 2009. I use full comp Lopro chain and it cuts just as fast as my bigger saws in small wood.
I mainly use it for carving and milling logs for nature playgrounds and park furniture. Unlike bigger saws I can work with the 441 all day long and not get exhausted.
In case you don't know I'm usually cutting much harder woods than most northern Hemisphere top trees.
For stuff bigger than 20" I use my 076 or 881. I can configure the chains on the bigger saws to cut faster in small wood but then they would bog down in bigger wood.

The 461 would slo be a good starter saw.


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## rarefish383 (May 13, 2018)

Nothing wrong with Stihl's, I have a 660 I use for most of my milling. But, a month or so ago I picked up a great running Homelite Super 1050 (100 CC's) for $150, and then a couple weeks later found a Mac 550 (99CC's) at a yard sale for $35, also a great runner. Good luck with whatever you settle on.


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## T-Dozzer (May 13, 2018)

thanks for the input. I am going to go check out a 461 tomorrow. Its used, but I plan on dropping it at a dealer at some point to take care of some recall issues. Then down the road maybe some work on it. Im on the look out for a non stihl big cc as well.


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## djones (May 14, 2018)

T-Dozzer said:


> thanks for the input. I am going to go check out a 461 tomorrow. Its used, but I plan on dropping it at a dealer at some point to take care of some recall issues. Then down the road maybe some work on it. Im on the look out for a non stihl big cc as well.


It doesn't hurt to have backup saws when one goes kaplooie on you. Nothing like having a saw stop in the middle of a cut and not start again. 1 backup is good, 2 is better. Think like a seal, 1 is none and 2 is 1. Just my opinion. Been there, done that. Even a smaller CC saw will help you get the job done when one breaks down. You may have to cut a little slower is all and sharpen the chain real sharp.


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## andy at clover (May 14, 2018)

T-Dozzer said:


> thanks for the input. I am going to go check out a 461 tomorrow. Its used, but I plan on dropping it at a dealer at some point to take care of some recall issues. Then down the road maybe some work on it. Im on the look out for a non stihl big cc as well.



Far from a Fanboy....I chose Stihl also for the dealer with a great Young Saw Tech about 5mins away.
The basic upkeep of a chainsaw must be something that a user can do.
That said, I don't do much beyond the basic stuff on the high revving gear here, having a shop (stocked with parts) minutes from home was a big deal.
The closest Husqvarna tech is 1.5 hours away. 
FWIW, after much reading, all things being equal I would have chosen Husqvarna 395xp for milling.
Maybe Stihl seems to have lost a step with the latest M-Tronic (661 fiasco).
The Stihl network though can not be beat!
Should probably keep that in mind if you find a big old Saw of another make.


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## blades (May 14, 2018)

Stilh big saws from days past 075-076- 084 - 088 parts a bit hard to find. 075-076 about 112cc, 084 &088 apx 121cc , little newer 066 91 cc


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## BobL (May 14, 2018)

As far as I know the 088 and 880 are pretty compatible so spares should not be an issue.


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## T-Dozzer (May 14, 2018)

well.. I bought the used MS 461. It came with a 32 inch bar. I plan to have it gone through when the recall is taken care of then possible some custom work. Few more questions-
1. Will the 461 pull a 32 inch bar ok in a mill or should I bump down? I plan on buying a smaller bar anyway for cutting firewood as the 32 isnt very fun to use all day.
2. Its a used saw, so I dont have a warranty. What mods should I look into having done to help it perform?
I think the 30" mill would work even if using the 32" bar since you lose some bar length, but I will double check. Going with the 30" mill would allow me to run a 32" or 25" bar bar.
Saw seems to be in good shape. Deffinatly more poswer than I have gotten used to with my opther s


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## SeMoTony (May 14, 2018)

T-Dozzer said:


> well.. I bought the used MS 461. It came with a 32 inch bar. I plan to have it gone through when the recall is taken care of then possible some custom work. Few more questions-
> 1. Will the 461 pull a 32 inch bar ok in a mill or should I bump down? I plan on buying a smaller bar anyway for cutting firewood as the 32 isnt very fun to use all day.
> 2. Its a used saw, so I dont have a warranty. What mods should I look into having done to help it perform?
> I think the 30" mill would work even if using the 32" bar since you lose some bar length, but I will double check. Going with the 30" mill would allow me to run a 32" or 25" bar bar.
> Saw seems to be in good shape. Deffinatly more poswer than I have gotten used to with my opther s


Muffler modding is essential IMHO. These engines are self powered air pumps. The easier the flow through the less heat trapped and the greater potential for converting liquid potential energy into actual power used to cut end grain.
Avatar shows ms-460 m-m'd with Max flo air cleaner, run a little rich (on the gas) and oil ratio 32-40/1. Chain is square chisel skip 3/8 .063 on a 60" cannon bar. Not recommended for continued use. It is bothersome nursing thru the cut to not bog the powerhead down. Gotta stay in an rpm range that allows free flo of the exhaust heat out and the cooler air-fuel mix in. End of cut allow the powerhead idle/cool down.
There is a raffle in "Chainsaw" thread with many thousands of dollars in prizes, including more than twenty saws, porting jobs, ground up saw build ( labor only) with your parts. A built to your request work saw is up there in value, chances are eleven dollars (including the gratuity) each. I mentioned that new worksaw because I got a 661w/ported cylinder that does all required, from the trading Post here for less than a new stock 661 from local dealers. There are a lot of options for finding a strong milling saw that will serve you well.
Take care, be safe while you enjoy


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## Brian72 (May 15, 2018)

T-Dozzer said:


> well.. I bought the used MS 461. It came with a 32 inch bar. I plan to have it gone through when the recall is taken care of then possible some custom work. Few more questions-
> 1. Will the 461 pull a 32 inch bar ok in a mill or should I bump down? I plan on buying a smaller bar anyway for cutting firewood as the 32 isnt very fun to use all day.
> 2. Its a used saw, so I dont have a warranty. What mods should I look into having done to help it perform?
> I think the 30" mill would work even if using the 32" bar since you lose some bar length, but I will double check. Going with the 30" mill would allow me to run a 32" or 25" bar bar.
> Saw seems to be in good shape. Deffinatly more poswer than I have gotten used to with my opther s


Congrats! I'm sure it will pull the 32". Best option is to use the smallest bar possible to get the job done. It's easier on the saw and less to sharpen. Removing the felling dogs will gain you some too. When I got my mill, I went with a 48" just in case I wanted to go bigger and I'm glad I did. I normally cut bigger stuff so my 28" bar doesn't get much use.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk


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## Marine5068 (May 15, 2018)

djones said:


> It doesn't hurt to have backup saws when one goes kaplooie on you. Nothing like having a saw stop in the middle of a cut and not start again. 1 backup is good, 2 is better. Think like a seal, 1 is none and 2 is 1. Just my opinion. Been there, done that. Even a smaller CC saw will help you get the job done when one breaks down. You may have to cut a little slower is all and sharpen the chain real sharp.


Always have a backup


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## Marine5068 (May 15, 2018)

T-Dozzer said:


> well.. I bought the used MS 461. It came with a 32 inch bar. I plan to have it gone through when the recall is taken care of then possible some custom work. Few more questions-
> 1. Will the 461 pull a 32 inch bar ok in a mill or should I bump down? I plan on buying a smaller bar anyway for cutting firewood as the 32 isnt very fun to use all day.
> 2. Its a used saw, so I dont have a warranty. What mods should I look into having done to help it perform?
> I think the 30" mill would work even if using the 32" bar since you lose some bar length, but I will double check. Going with the 30" mill would allow me to run a 32" or 25" bar bar.
> Saw seems to be in good shape. Deffinatly more poswer than I have gotten used to with my opther s


Congrats and post some pics of some milled wood soon.


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## T-Dozzer (May 30, 2018)

Using a 25" bar to start.
Still need to sort out why my HO oiler isnt putting out what I think it should. My dual port muffler just showed up so Ill get that on soon.
Man this fun! Hard on my saw, but fun. My brand new chain already has heat signs on it.


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## blades (May 31, 2018)

Add an out board drip type oiler at the tip of the saw. Not hard to make your own. water or something like canola or vegtable oil for lube. Dino stuff will mess with any type of finish applied down the road.


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## T-Dozzer (May 31, 2018)

blades said:


> Add an out board drip type oiler at the tip of the saw. Not hard to make your own. water or something like canola or vegtable oil for lube. Dino stuff will mess with any type of finish applied down the road.



Whats "dino stuff"?


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## blades (May 31, 2018)

Petroleum based products- Gas oil diesel ect. , If you are milling for rough construction no problem using what ever. But if milling for nice wood working projects or selling milled boards for same then the issue of the dino stuff arises when trying to put a finish on the material. petroleum products soaked into the wood will have adverse affects on a lot of the finishes available. Even the vegie oils can cause some problems depending on the finish material.


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## andy at clover (Jun 1, 2018)

All oils cause problems. We used to see "Spittle stains" a lot with Red oak when I was doing a lot of staircases in the '90s.
The biodegradable oil get "eaten" sooner by bacteria and break down (vegetable oil).
Eventually Petroleum oils would also but it takes much longer.
Using "Benite" or clear stain base as a sealer before staining wood helps balance any oil throughout the area of wood.


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## BobL (Jun 3, 2018)

Be careful when using water or canola. I used water in an Aux Oiler for about 6 weeks before I noticed increased B&C wear. Maybe it was the canola I used but I found that canola needs to be cleaned up and emptied out of the Aux oiler reservoir if you are going to store the mll for any more than a few months as it starts to polymerise - goes sticky, and can even go hard and gum up your oiler. Certainly do not use it in the saw itself. I have not had any problems with oil stains. I think it's maybe because Aussie hardwood sawdust is an extremely good absorber of oil and besides being hard wood, the wood is also a poor oil absorber.


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## T-Dozzer (Jun 3, 2018)

You fellas didn't warn me I would be filing so much  guess its time for a grinder.


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## BobL (Jun 3, 2018)

T-Dozzer said:


> You fellas didn't warn me I would be filing so much  guess its time for a grinder.


You can start complaining when you have a bunch of 60" loops to hand file.


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 3, 2018)

BobL said:


> You can start complaining when you have a bunch of 60" loops to hand file.


I need advise.. ,(there's a news flash)..anyway, just starting the milling process, kinda,. I practiced on soft wood like cedar and pine with my Homey 1050 and 404, 30" bar. Did real good till a small fuel problem.. Anyway,, blew the dust off a Jonsered 2094, bought a 36" bar and 404 chain to match just to find 3/8 pitch rim sprocket on the machine.. Dug around in the shop and found a 404 R. S. But it's an 8 toothe. My question is, do you people in the know think this saw (97cc) will handle the extra toothe? And a full comp chain? Runs real well..


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## T-Dozzer (Jun 3, 2018)

BobL said:


> You can start complaining when you have a bunch of 60" loops to hand file.



Yikes! Haha...
Curious why your hand filing on jobs like that. I appreciate the control you get from hand filing (Im sure your pretty good), but it seems folks are getting good results from the granberg 12 volt grinder. Maybe some other benchtop grinders as well.
Ive been leaning toward the granberg or an oregon grinder & hand filing on touch ups.
Any other grinders worth my time? I dont mind paying for quality.


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## Brian72 (Jun 3, 2018)

Beetlejuice said:


> I need advise.. ,(there's a news flash)..anyway, just starting the milling process, kinda,. I practiced on soft wood like cedar and pine with my Homey 1050 and 404, 30" bar. Did real good till a small fuel problem.. Anyway,, blew the dust off a Jonsered 2094, bought a 36" bar and 404 chain to match just to find 3/8 pitch rim sprocket on the machine.. Dug around in the shop and found a 404 R. S. But it's an 8 toothe. My question is, do you people in the know think this saw (97cc) will handle the extra toothe? And a full comp chain? Runs real well..


You'll lose torque going with a bigger sprocket. Not saying it won't work. I've never tried it. I like skip chain for milling. You'll get better chip clearance.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 3, 2018)

Brian72 said:


> You'll lose torque going with a bigger sprocket. Not saying it won't work. I've never tried it. I like skip chain for milling. You'll get better chip clearance.
> 
> Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk


404 full comp was all I could find at the time.. Would have to order a loop of skip.. And the sprocket just happen to be the one I have.. Well try it and go easy.. Thanks.. I'll try to report in


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## BobL (Jun 3, 2018)

T-Dozzer said:


> Yikes! Haha...
> Curious why your hand filing on jobs like that. I appreciate the control you get from hand filing (Im sure your pretty good)


I did start 55 years ago when my old dad showed me how he did it. If he were stilll alive today I'd have a discussion with him on how he coudl have done it better!



> but it seems folks are getting good results from the granberg 12 volt grinder. Maybe some other benchtop grinders as well.


I have several 12V grinder and have used them a few times. Also have access to an Oregon Grinder and used to use it to get all the cutters the same length but stopped doing that in 2008.
I pay as much attention, maybe more, to the rakers than I do to the cutters. Getting the raker angle right and rounding the raker over is a manual process that no current grinder can do accurately.
But mostly its because I can touch up a 42" chain on the mill faster than I can swap the chain out AND I don't have to take the saw out of the mill to swap chains.
On the 60" bars I can swap chains about as fast as I can touch up but seeing as I often touch up after every tank of mix I would need dozens of loops for a days work with the 60" bars.

BJ the 8 pin should be fine.


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 3, 2018)

BobL said:


> I did start 55 years ago when my old dad showed me how he did it. If he were stilll alive today I'd have a discussion with him on how he coudl have done it better!
> 
> 
> I have several 12V grinder and have used them a few times. Also have access to an Oregon Grinder and used to use it to get all the cutters the same length but stopped doing that in 2008.
> ...


Many thanks.. Put my mind at ease


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## blades (Jun 4, 2018)

Well if you want a real work out hand filling come and see my when I have the 8ft (205 dl) .404 full comp loops to do.


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## Beetlejuice (Jun 4, 2018)

blades said:


> Well if you want a real work out hand filling come and see my when I have the 8ft (205 dl) .404 full comp loops to do.


I invested in a metal detector. I know I won't catch everything but boost the odds of not hitting anything.. I don't want to tune up 101 dl's 404, full comp, let alone twice that many.. Sounds like a six-pack sharpening.


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