# Tree Motion Saddle... Safe?



## budcampo (Sep 22, 2010)

Hi, just starting out climbing trees for a company. I bought a tree motion saddle, and the boss said the whole thing looks unsafe. 
He's got the old fashion leather kind, and had some concerns with mine.
So, I was curious if you guys could pitch in some advice before I climb with it or send it back. All I've read on the saddle is good... but here are his concerns:

Rope bridge - Doesn't trust how it's secured by knots
Rings - Made of alluminum, and too small, fear of breaking
Doesn't like having to use rope grabs, says sinches are safer
Buckles that connect the waist harness and leg harnesses are too small

Thanks for any advice, would like to stay safe up there!


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## RacerX (Sep 24, 2010)

IMO the new style saddles with rope bridges are safe. I am currently using a Weaver Cougar. Although the old style saddles with four solid D rings are more simple and IMO less prone to potential failure since they don't employ rope or knots on the bridge. (Weaver currently has a recall for one of their rope style bridges due to a failure). Same thing can be said for fancy mechanical devices and prusiks, you're adding more and more components into the climbing system where one could potentially fail. Some guys still use the simplest set up that they can get. That would be saddle, one carabiner, rope and hitch. I would call that old school and I personally embrace the newer school of thinking.


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## treeslayer (Sep 24, 2010)

If they sell it, its safe, liability risk drives all new product development. use it right, no problem. old school guys will always be suspicious of new gear.


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## budcampo (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks for the responses. The whole thing looks and feels good to me, and IMO if I take care of my gear, keep a eye on things and be safe that's the important part. The only thing he's still got me thinking on is the aluminum rings, I know nothing about metal, but mentally I wish they were steel...


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## RacerX (Sep 25, 2010)

budcampo said:


> Thanks for the responses. The whole thing looks and feels good to me, and IMO if I take care of my gear, keep a eye on things and be safe that's the important part. The only thing he's still got me thinking on is the aluminum rings, I know nothing about metal, but mentally I wish they were steel...




I wouldn't worry about the Al rings. There held to the same minimum standard as steel. Just keep your eye them for wear and you should be good to go for years of use.


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## treeslayer (Sep 25, 2010)

budcampo said:


> Thanks for the responses. The whole thing looks and feels good to me, and IMO if I take care of my gear, keep a eye on things and be safe that's the important part. The only thing he's still got me thinking on is the aluminum rings, I know nothing about metal, but mentally I wish they were steel...



airplanes are mostly aluminum.


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## budcampo (Sep 28, 2010)

Did my first climb today, didn't do any cutting, just climbed up the tree with the main climber and watched and learned. The saddle was super comfy, and it all worked great. 
Tree was a 80'-90' pine, I was definately a little nervous, but after about a half hour I got used to it, what a rush, especially at the top when it's swaying... whew! I think I'm addicted...


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## ATH (Sep 28, 2010)

Does he use steel carabiners or Al? Both are more than strong enough...but it would just be quite ironic if he climbed with Al, but didn't like it on your saddle.

As has been stated above, if it is put out by a major manufacture, it meets minimal standards that are pretty high. Like any product, there will be flaws, and they will be recalled and either taken off of the market or upgraded to be made safe.

Look for ANSI approval. If it has it, and you use it according to manufacture instructions, don't think twice about the equipment.


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## VA-Sawyer (Sep 28, 2010)

You say the head climber is still using one of the old heavy leather style of harness? Best advice I can give you is don't ever let him try on your saddle, or you won't get it back from him.

Rick


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## budcampo (Sep 28, 2010)

Not sure if the boss's is Al or not, his saddle is really old though. And ya the head climber uses one too, as well as the other 2 climbers. All use hitches with the old style saddles, I'm the only one that has all the new stuff and I'm the new guy. I was up in that tree for 4 hours and that saddle was super comfortable. I repelled down using the rope bridge and I was nervous just because of all their "it's not safe" stuff, but it didn't brake, and I live another day There stuff does look more heavy duty that's for sure.


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## ATH (Sep 30, 2010)

budcampo said:


> .........I repelled down using the rope bridge and I was nervous just because of all their "it's not safe" stuff, but it didn't brake, and I live another day There stuff does look more heavy duty that's for sure.


You gotta shake that. If you are not confident in your equipment to keep you safe, you will never be productive.


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## FanOFatherNash (Jul 26, 2012)

budcampo said:


> Thanks for the responses. The whole thing looks and feels good to me, and IMO if I take care of my gear, keep a eye on things and be safe that's the important part. The only thing he's still got me thinking on is the aluminum rings, I know nothing about metal, but mentally I wish they were steel...




i feel same way... thats why i only fly in steel airplanes =)


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## Iustinian (Jul 28, 2012)

I went thru the same thing for years, old schoolers in their heavy leather wide back floating dees didn't like my synthetic harnesses, Butterfly II or Sequioa. My old foreman scoffed at the Butterfly saying, "I need to see LEATHER" lmao. Those big heavy leather Basic saddles have ruined alot of hips. Inspect your gear and pay attention to it. You can always try on the old school gear and see how you like it though bwuahahahha


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## keh10 (Jul 28, 2012)

I care much more about comfort and weight than I do about how 'rugged' a saddle looks. And today you pay a premium for comfort and superior strength/weight ratios, as I'm sure you noticed with the TreeMotion!

My next saddle (approximately 2 years from now) will probably be something along the TreeMotion/Ergovation line. Right now I climb with a Buckingham Glidelite and really like it. Most of my climbs only last 2-3 hours so I'm not particularly interested in the ultra-comfy $500 saddles right now.


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## FanOFatherNash (Jul 28, 2012)

budcampo said:


> Hi, just starting out climbing trees for a company. I bought a tree motion saddle, and the boss said the whole thing looks unsafe.
> He's got the old fashion leather kind, and had some concerns with mine.
> So, I was curious if you guys could pitch in some advice before I climb with it or send it back. All I've read on the saddle is good... but here are his concerns:
> 
> ...



tree motion is much safer for your loins. 

when your boss is 60 feet up in his leather back ... isn't he ultimately secured by knots


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## Customcuts (Mar 26, 2013)

*one of the best harnesses*

I recently bought a treemotion with the extra comfort backpad after using a weaver floating d. Oh my God! I should have done it years ago. I feel 100% safe in it and very comfy. Which also helps you to focus on your work and not worrying about the wide leather straps digging all into you. I climb mostly srt with 8mmhrc friction hitch on bluemoon with a zk2 stiff tether combo. Petzl hand ascender with foot loop and cmi foot ascendeI can frog walk up into a 60' canopy with ease. Just carry some nylon loop runners with binders to use as lifeline redirects. And u can go ALL over the tree even out to the tips..


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## Bermie (Mar 27, 2013)

Most top production climbers are wearing 'new' style harnesses (aka: not leather and felt and massive steel D's and non floating bridges, and skinny back pads and leg loops), they're not really new, having been around for more than 10 years already, I bought my Butterfly in 2003! 
The TreeMotion is tried and tested and WIDELY used in the industry, and in the climbing competitions.
Aren't the aluminum rings on the bridge rated? Look to see if they have markings on them, The Petzl ones do...
Equipment aside, watch and learn from your mates!


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## StrataTree (Mar 28, 2013)

treeslayer said:


> If they sell it, its safe, liability risk drives all new product development. use it right, no problem. old school guys will always be suspicious of new gear.



I'm not sure about that! Good Idea to always check for ANSI rating. In a recent climbing course the instructor mentioned that some of the new Petzl saddles were approved for competition but not rated for work. He also said he ordered carabiners from a very popular tree equipment company and out of three seemingly identical biners, one was rated less than the others and did not meet ANSI requirements. He used these biners for several months before he noticed the discrepancy, and ditched the bad one. Assume nothing. liability is great and all but does me no good if I ain't breathin... My safety = my responsibility


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