# spikes



## arbormonkey (Mar 20, 2008)

Right now I am using B'ham steel spikes with Cadillac pads and am rather content with them. However, looking through the catologues I have become curious about some of the new(er) setups. So does anyone have any experience with Wolf Claws or Gecko T2's? How about Komets? Is there anything else I am missing? Just trying to gather some first hand information, any comments appreciated.

-AM


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## lumberjack333 (Mar 20, 2008)

*first pair*

I am currently looking into my first set of spurs myself... the b-hams are ok for you then arbormonkey? no comfort issues on long climbs? I'm not to worried about weight for my first pair, just don't want anything jabbing into the side of my leg on my first set.


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## jomoco (Mar 21, 2008)

It's my opinion that gaffs and proper gaff maintenance is one of the most overlooked items that can get otherwise good climbers in serious trouble.

Keeping gaffs razor sharp is the key to dealing successfully with dense, dead hardwoods. Keeping them sharp shortens all gaffs, especially pole gaffs, this means replacing pole gaffs often to maintain sufficient length to get through the cambial region and into the xylem or heartwood of the tree you're climbing. I use tree gaffs on big conifers and such, but all of my hardwoods are done with shorter pole gaffs. But letting them get less than 1 1/2 inches can result kicking out in thicker cambium eucs on the lower trunk wood.

But after I snapped the steel shank on an old Buck gaff coming down a big dead euc hard, I switched to their new Titanium gaffs. Unfortunately they changed the design of the replacement gaffs between the old and the new.

Keeping a high quality 1/8 punch at hand made replacing gaffs on the old Bucks easy and quick, and the gaffs took a file well.

I don't like the new design on the titanium replacement gaffs at all. It's kinda sad when you pay more money and get less actual gaff, atleast on the pole gaffs it's true.

I was very shocked and traumatized when that steel shank in my old steel Bucks snapped in half coming down that dead euc at the zoo. I wear the Bashlin steel spurstays, the leather ones on my Bucks, and I guess the play of steel on steel caused the main body of the Bucks to snap about 4 inches from the top on my right side, I was very lucky I didn't snap my right ankle when they broke.

Keep them sharp and keep replacement sets at hand.

Any climber that doesn't wear some kind of steel upper spurstays on their spikes is a pain loving rookie!

jomoco


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## lumberjack333 (Mar 21, 2008)

*how old?*

Nice info Jomoco, just out of curiosity how old was the spur that snapped? Thats something I certainly didn't consider, not on steel spurs anyways, I'd expect that a little more from an old aluminum set... are there any guarantees that come with a new set?


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## tree MDS (Mar 21, 2008)

I use Gecko's with the american tree spikes, they are awesome, about 325 a set but well worth it when I consider the upcoming payment on my bucket if ya get what I'm saying.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 21, 2008)

I've not used the geckos myself, but know people who have used them and gone back to standard. I know people who love them too.

I had Wolf for several years, but got sick of having the ankle brace getting in the way in crotches and such. If you've spent a lot of time in standard gaffs, these probably would annoy you.

That said though, if you need extra ankle support, they do give that.

I'm in a standard aluminum bent style gaff with Buck' Velcro wraps and steel inserts.


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## tree MDS (Mar 21, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I've not used the geckos myself, but know people who have used them and gone back to standard. I know people who love them too.
> 
> I had Wolf for several years, but got sick of having the ankle brace getting in the way in crotches and such. If you've spent a lot of time in standard gaffs, these probably would annoy you.
> 
> ...


Maybe its something to do with how tall a person is, I'm only 5'10" and cant even feel the Geckos after 6 hrs in a tree finishing up 385xp on big wood.


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## Thillmaine (Mar 21, 2008)

*Spur Stays?*

What are spur stays?


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## jomoco (Mar 21, 2008)

lumberjack333 said:


> Nice info Jomoco, just out of curiosity how old was the spur that snapped? Thats something I certainly didn't consider, not on steel spurs anyways, I'd expect that a little more from an old aluminum set... are there any guarantees that come with a new set?



My old set of steel Bucks were about 10 years old when the steel shank snapped on one of them. It was obvious afterwards that it was an old hairline fracture because of the rust across over half of the fracture face itself.

I still like the old steel Bucks best even though the new titaniums are much lighter and presumably stronger, they're definitely alot more expensive to buy and maintain.

Old school rules!

jomoco


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## Blakesmaster (Mar 21, 2008)

I can't quite figure out what the "Cadillac" pads are. Any help? I just got a set of B'ham steels with velcro wrap and steel insert 3 weeks ago. I couldn't believe the difference from the old leather "T" straps. Very comfortable. When these wear out I'll probably get the Gecko's though.


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## arbormonkey (Mar 21, 2008)

Blakesmaster said:


> I can't quite figure out what the "Cadillac" pads are. Any help? I just got a set of B'ham steels with velcro wrap and steel insert 3 weeks ago. I couldn't believe the difference from the old leather "T" straps. Very comfortable. When these wear out I'll probably get the Gecko's though.



Here are some pics. They are cast aluminum with a half inch of padding. Bulky but comfortable and secure.


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## lumberjack333 (Mar 21, 2008)

Well I'm all about the oldschool so I think I'll go with the tried and tested b-ham steels for my first set, thanks for the info jomoco! Time to order me some spurs!


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 21, 2008)

lumberjack333 said:


> Well I'm all about the oldschool so I think I'll go with the tried and tested b-ham steels for my first set, thanks for the info jomoco! Time to order me some spurs!



Those spikes will have the meat and potatoes you need. I run the Bashlin aluminums and like them after running steel ones for years. In my opinion, the only major difference is weight. With the steel ones you don't have stab so hard to get a good bite. The only thing I really like in a set of tree hooks is a long straight gaff, but that is just a preference thing. Hope you like them.


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## lumberjack333 (Mar 21, 2008)

Yeah I thought about alum for the weight... but for the added $$$ I think I'd rather just deal with the exercise for now haha, next set will be a titanium/alum/composite or whatever new technology has rolled around by then. I feel more comfortable climbing in steel spurs for now anyways. Thanks nails


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 21, 2008)

Buy the way Lumberjack, that avatar cracks me up everytime. Ahhh the good old days!


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## lumberjack333 (Mar 22, 2008)

Hahaha, thanks nails... nothing like some 4x4 camping with good friends and a large keg


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## CharlieK (Mar 22, 2008)

tree MDS said:

Maybe its something to do with how tall a person is, I'm only 5'10" and cant even feel the Geckos after 6 hrs in a tree finishing up 385xp on big wood.



6 hours in a tree? 
I never thought of being in a tree that long. 
How do you pee? 
What did you do to that tree?
I'm not making fun, just really curious!

If I spend 1 hour up there on the spikes I am really miserable. Anything I can do to put my weight in the harness and on a rope is welcome.

Cheers,
Charlie K.


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## Blakesmaster (Mar 23, 2008)

You just let it go, Charlie, let it go. Can even be warm and soothing for a while.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 23, 2008)

arbormonkey said:


> Here are some pics. They are cast aluminum with a half inch of padding. Bulky but comfortable and secure.



I thought of that idea many years before they were made, the pads
similar to crutches are they comfortable? I wish I would have patented it.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 23, 2008)

CharlieK said:


> What did you do to that tree?
> I'm not making fun, just really curious!



Trims and removals can be that long on big spreading trees.

I've had some big spreading threes in small back yards that take more then one day to get down and out. Wide canopy and no decent rigging points to "go big".

On trees with high deadwood loads, you need to work the tips a bit because you may have changed the moment of bend and mass dampening of the limb enough to cause an elevated risk of failure in moderate winds.


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## matty f (Mar 23, 2008)

Ive just brought some carbon geckos,definietly the most comfy spikes ive worn at first i tried them on the american style gaffs spent the day on them finishing up on the 395xp and didnt evan notice them on my feet!,having tryed the american style gaffs before on kliens they felt like wearing high heels up a tree! so that was what made me finally buy a pair and i cant say i regret it.
Kliens with short gaffs i liked the most before the geckos but have spent the last 4 years on bashlins wich were ok ,but you new if you had had them on for longer than 45mins!


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## tree MDS (Mar 23, 2008)

CharlieK said:


> tree MDS said:
> 
> Maybe its something to do with how tall a person is, I'm only 5'10" and cant even feel the Geckos after 6 hrs in a tree finishing up 385xp on big wood.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you got crap spikes CharlieK. Usually when I'm doing a large takedown I've got other things on my mind than going potty, JMHO.


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## tree MDS (Mar 23, 2008)

CharlieK said:


> tree MDS said:
> 
> Maybe its something to do with how tall a person is, I'm only 5'10" and cant even feel the Geckos after 6 hrs in a tree finishing up 385xp on big wood.
> 
> ...


Also, I find it hard to believe that someone blabbering about split tails (another thread) and such has never heard of a tree taking 6 hours. What kind of treework is it that you do CharlieK? I just looked at and got a tree for 2400, I wish I could do that in an hour....now that would be sweet.


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## safeT1st (Mar 23, 2008)

*Spur Comfort*

I don't spend as much time on spurs as some of you professionals but have learned how important footwear is to be comfortable . Currently I wear a pair of Viberg Lineman boots . The pronounced heel holds the spur well . Before that I wore a pair of el cheapo work boots and my feet were sore just looking at my spurs . Often look at Wesco boots longingly .

Also proper adjustment of spur height and straps goes a long way towards being comfortable .On the lower strap I put a full turn around the shank which helps prevent the shank wandering against my leg . I started learning on an old set of Klein "pole gaffs' and belt and last year moved up to the Buckingham steels with aluminum pads and "tree gaffs" .Still learning . World of difference in comfort and confidence . 

Sometimes I will spend more than an hour just assessing a tree situation before I even begin to climb . But then I'm not getting paid to do this as I only attend to my own trees .


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## arbormonkey (Mar 23, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> I thought of that idea many years before they were made, the pads
> similar to crutches are they comfortable? I wish I would have patented it.



Very comfortable. Once you get them adjusted correctly for your leg, no pinching on the shin, no rub on the inside heel bone. I started on leather "L" pads and it is a night and day difference. My only concern is my boots; I am due for a major upgrade.
Good climbing!
AM


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## tree MDS (Mar 23, 2008)

arbormonkey said:


> Very comfortable. Once you get them adjusted correctly for your leg, no pinching on the shin, no rub on the inside heel bone. I started on leather "L" pads and it is a night and day difference. My only concern is my boots; I am due for a major upgrade.
> Good climbing!
> AM



My vote goes to redwing loggers, about 230 a pair and they last about a year of hard workin, maybe longer but I like them better newer+ find it easier to grip the rope with my feet when forced to do the ocaisional footlock. Wessco's (or whatever it is) look like good boots as well but I think they skyrocketed with the price for some reason, not sure, but I stick with what I know works.


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## CharlieK (Mar 23, 2008)

*Nice.*



tree MDS said:


> Also, I find it hard to believe that someone blabbering about split tails (another thread) and such has never heard of a tree taking 6 hours. What kind of treework is it that you do CharlieK? I just looked at and got a tree for 2400, I wish I could do that in an hour....now that would be sweet.




Is it hard to believe that I could have used a split tail and not had to be in a tree for 6 hours?

Sometimes the bucket truck can take care of the lower 57'. The trees where I live top out at 100'. So, climbing in the tree, I just have to worry about the top 40.

I didn't mean to say that I am done after 1 hour, just not really comfortable anymore. But 6 hours to get a top out? Nope, never had to do it. Not even leaning over a trailer. I guess I am just lucky.

Happy Easter,
Charlie K.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 24, 2008)

arbormonkey said:


> Very comfortable. Once you get them adjusted correctly for your leg, no pinching on the shin, no rub on the inside heel bone. I started on leather "L" pads and it is a night and day difference. My only concern is my boots; I am due for a major upgrade.
> Good climbing!
> AM



Thanks I bought what I thought were Cadillacs only to call them pinto's!
Been thinking on those for a while but don't like buying things over and over!
I have used westcos boots they are great boots, but the way I wear out
boots Carolina is more practical. I wear the heal out quick to the outside
I think its from my line clearance days.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 24, 2008)

CharlieK said:


> Sometimes the bucket truck can take care of the lower 57'. The trees where I live top out at 100'. ..... But 6 hours to get a top out? Nope, never had to do it. Not even leaning over a trailer. I guess I am just lucky.



When you have the hight to rig big, then you have room to work big. It's when they are very short and very wide, w/o bucket access that it drags on.

Last week I was in a stone dead Am'elm that topped out at 35 ft, spread for 50 and had no good tie-in/rig points in the center. One of those twisty buggers that are a fun junglegym to prune. On top of that, the mulberries growing at the base were "ornamentals" that could not be crushed, and a 175 y/o log cabin very near by. That took all of 3 hours, though setting a second line in an adjacent when I could not get out on the longest low limb to do jump cuts took more time then I wanted it to.


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## tree MDS (Mar 24, 2008)

A typical tree that takes that long around here, or longer : Large Red Oak, no drop zone, over all kinds of sheds/other obstacles, every single piece has to be roped down often using the double crotch/tip tie/butt tie method, sending down 30+leaders butt first, two groundies one on tip line, one on butt line after I toss it off stub to he has to pull it into that one LZ. Then when all thats done its time to start roping the wood down with 3/4 db and large CMI false crotch block. Thats my typical big TD around here, people just hate acorns, I gotta make a living. I agree with you JPS, the taller ones are often easier, just but tie and swing em down.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 24, 2008)

Time is not a factor exceeding safety or property damage. I have seen
trees that take ten hours and greater to piece down to prevent damage.
6 hours is a medium removal in my area, or not uncommon.
Unless all equipment is at ones disposal ie, crane,helo etc.


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## tree MDS (Mar 24, 2008)

I've done alot of big ones where everything was flyin nice, sending down whole leaders, good ground crew, and still after 7-8 hrs a couple of big tops left for tomoro+all the wood to rope-many times over the years. Thats just big TDs around here. I dont understand how some of these companies survive only able to do smaller jobs, I really dont. Big Silver Maples, there's another one. Hey, CT guys! check out my post in the employment section.


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## Bermie (Mar 24, 2008)

Thillmaine said:


> What are spur stays?



Yeah, what are they???

I use Bashlin aluminium spikes, leather pads...take a wrap around the shank to keep them in place, never had any issue with rubbing or digging into legs or ankles...guess I just don't know what I'm missing?

Did a coconut last week on spikes...bad, but no access for a bucket, too tall for a ladder...nuts hanging over the roof had already smashed the chimney.
Good thing I'm used to sailboats, 'cause this thing was swaying like a yacht!


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## oldirty (Mar 24, 2008)

just put in an order for the komet spikes. blue strap version. looking forward to them.


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## tree MDS (Mar 24, 2008)

oldirty said:


> just put in an order for the komet spikes. blue strap version. looking forward to them.



"blue strap" version?? eh? heh, heh, heh, are you some sort of perv or something??


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## tree MDS (Mar 24, 2008)

No, dude, I'm sure that would look sweet!! Heh,heh.


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## oldirty (Mar 25, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> "blue strap" version?? eh? heh, heh, heh, are you some sort of perv or something??



well to be honest MDS. i couldnt find the big black strap on version. i settled for the blue. something about a better fit around the leg. 

lol


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## oldirty (Mar 28, 2008)

*komet spikes*

here you go boys. the new set of spikes i'll be doing my thing in.

380 later after taxes and this is them.

by the way thank you very much BostonBull for letting me come to your house to pick them up today. you are a good man. 

i'll tell you how they feel to work in them tomw, i got a bit of rigging to do tomw. but i'll tell you what they sure are light!

the pads are velcro'd in to the hard plastic. and there is also a prefabbed slot for the leather strap to run through but i am not going to use it. i like to cinch it up a bit higher than were they put it.


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## tree MDS (Mar 28, 2008)

oldirty said:


> here you go boys. the new set of spikes i'll be doing my thing in.
> 
> 380 later after taxes and this is them.
> 
> ...



Cool, those look sick, I cant wait to hear how you like em. Have you tried the Gecko's yet as well? I'd love to hear a compairison.


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## oldirty (Mar 28, 2008)

no idea bout them geckos but i was told they are better than the carbide something or other geckos. light weight for sure though. i am looking forward to tomw's work a little more than usual. 

i'll give you the rundown around this time tomw.


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## tree MDS (Mar 28, 2008)

I believe I read somewhere that the geckos are alot lighter but they do look comfy and well built I just got the geckos cuz a friend had them and I got to try em for some months and loved em, super comfy.


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## oldirty (Mar 28, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> I just got the geckos cuz a friend had them and I got to try em for some months and loved em, super comfy.




good enough reason for me.

all i know about climbing equipment is that if i am going to be using it on the daily and it will make my life easier then i am going to spend the money. is this going to help my wallet any? no, but it will make me a better more efficient climber. which will lead to a fatter wallet anyway.


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## tree MDS (Mar 28, 2008)

oldirty said:


> good enough reason for me.
> 
> all i know about climbing equipment is that if i am going to be using it on the daily and it will make my life easier then i am going to spend the money. is this going to help my wallet any? no, but it will make me a better more efficient climber. which will lead to a fatter wallet anyway.



...which will lead to


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## arbormonkey (Mar 28, 2008)

Nice looking gear, Oldirty.
Please let us know what you think of those spikes tomorrow.
Do the Komets have a euro gaff or and american style tree gaff?


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## oldirty (Apr 1, 2008)

ive only spent about 20 mins in them twice but i like them. i am going to go out on a limb and say they are the euro gaff because i have never seen gaffs that look like these ones.

my only gripe will be the leather straps, i dont see them lasting very long. i think i am going to put switch them out for the harder leather version straps. these one seem like they should be on a coat.

i like em so far though, very quick adjustment to them. 

hopefully i get a good climb in them before i take off so i know for sure about them.


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## oldirty (Jun 5, 2008)

*my take on the komet's*

yes they are light which is good.....but

they are not made for the hardcore go getters. the plastic is already fatigued and the bolts on them work them self loose, alot. 

the euro gaffs are doo doo. and the velcro straps are already busting their stitches.

maybe they are made for the little guys out there but they couldnt handle what i put them through. 

for 380$ i feel as if i got the shaft, big time. 2 months of climbing i got out of that 380. if anyone knows the guys at komet tell them to stick to the saddles.


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## Nailsbeats (Jun 5, 2008)

Sorry to hear that Oldirty. What are you gonna try next? 

I have a new pair of Bashlin steels with steel wraps and 3" straight gaffs I'm thinking about putting some time on. My regulars are Bashlin aluminum's with leather L-pads and the 3" straight gaffs. I don't have any problems or complaints about the aluminums, just thinking about switching it up to give my neglected pair some love and feel that old school weight again.


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## ClimbinArbor (Jun 5, 2008)

i have tried the red geckos and the were nice. lightweight buggers. but mine had the euro gaff, and they sucked!!! if you get geckos get the american gaffs. i havent tried the carbon fiber ones yet. 

i did just get a pair of the klein adjustables though, am doin my first tree withem tomorrow


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## oldirty (Jun 6, 2008)

i was little harsh but all in all not very happy with them. nothing for longevity out of them. light they were though it was nice. i went back to my bashlins with the steel wrap past couple days and actually prefer them to the komets. 

they were too short for me to get them to my comfort spot but i got over that quick because the weight. its the hard plastic and velcro wraps that didnt make it plus the bolts getting loose. i think i just weighed too much for them to handle. 

too be honest nails gotta say if you can go light on your spike setup it'll save your knees abit of the wear and tear. the pulling apart of knee joints when you "unspike" happens less if your setup is light. 

whats my next move regarding spikes? i'll make a move at a later date. i still got some love for them bashlin's. 

i'll say this about the komets if you not over 6'2 ish you might find them nice and if you can find away to not let them get get banged up while you work you might like them. also your leg cant be too wide because they wont fit right. skinnier the better.

the weight was nice.


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## Nailsbeats (Jun 6, 2008)

Spikes take a beating, that's just the way it is if you climb. 

You probably know this OD, but when you pull your spike out you can drop your knee out and down and leverage them out instead of pulling straight up. I do it all the time if I am spiked in hard, saves torque on the knee joints, and puts the pivot on your hip joints.


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## oldirty (Jun 6, 2008)

ClimbinArbor said:


> i have tried the red geckos and the were nice. lightweight buggers. but mine had the euro gaff, and they sucked!!! if you get geckos get the american gaffs. i havent tried the carbon fiber ones yet.
> 
> i did just get a pair of the klein adjustables though, am doin my first tree withem tomorrow



they got that gaff that goes out and then down instead of straightdown? you'll like them. kleins were my first set of spikes but they didnt fit the steel wrap when i bought them and was not going to climb another day with that L pad so i traded gaffs with my former boss to get into the wraps i like the kleins though. 

good luck with them, its a "good" different from the straight spike.


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## oldirty (Jun 6, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Spikes take a beating, that's just the way it is if you climb.
> 
> You probably know this OD, but when you pull your spike out you can drop your knee out and down and leverage them out instead of pulling straight up. I do it all the time if I am spiked in hard, saves torque on the knee joints, and puts the pivot on your hip joints.




true that. 


i hear you with the spiking out but you'll notice it if your carrying less weight too. i hate having to hammer in the spikes it makes for a long day on the body.


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## harvey (Jun 9, 2008)

Spend the money and get the Gecko's.They are unreal, I have been on several others and none of them come close IMO.


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## ClimbinArbor (Jun 9, 2008)

well the new klines do the trick, but theyre a little heavy/ bulky and could use a wrap pad. really miss my geckos.... i might get a wrap for the klines, or just keep them as backups and spring the $450 for the new geckos

but over all the klines are a decent set of spikes


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