# $175 ANY tree??



## Treecutr (Jan 30, 2010)

I know I couoldn't afford to do this, even at the 4 tree minimum. If this is the case, I'm screwed by this guy every time. I can't see it.


http://westernmass.craigslist.org/fgs/1573502052.html


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## treemandan (Jan 30, 2010)

what an ass


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## Rftreeman (Jan 30, 2010)

I'd call him up and act like I needed a tree removed just to see who the hell he is then got out and price four trees for $1500.00 and get him to do it for $700.00 and make $800.00 without getting dirty.........lol

what's next, "we'll remove your trees for what ever price you tell us, what's good for you is enough for us" ..........


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## rarefish383 (Jan 31, 2010)

I used to have a $200 min just to show up, and that's been more than a couple years ago. There used to be a couple new companies that had no idea how to bid a job, so they advertised 10% less than your best bid. For the past 10 years or so my cousin charged $50 per estimate, just to weed out the window shoppers. If he got the job the $50 came off the top of the bid. He had a very strong, 4 generation, customer base, so he could do that. Like said above, I'd go out and bid a bunch of jobs and then have him do them. Let him keep his men busy and you can go to Florida for a few months, Joe.


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## rarefish383 (Jan 31, 2010)

One more thing. Why's this guy cracking on pick ups and Home Depot? With his prices he's the K-Mart of the industry, Joe.


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## Treecutr (Jan 31, 2010)

OH THANK GOD. Here I thought I was some overcharging ass for a second there. I will start with a $250 minimum if I have to climb. I have done some for $150, but that was to drop it, and they cleaned it up, I cut to length. I've done a few trimmings for $50, I was a whole 8' off the ground. If I'd brought the pole saw I never would have gotten off the ground. Sad part is this guy will probably make a killing at that rate, as far as volume goes. All I have is a Truck, trailer, and all the necessary saws, chipper, and climbing gear. what else do I really NEED. Lift is nice, and some day will get, but not yet.


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## Treecutr (Jan 31, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> I'd call him up and act like I needed a tree removed just to see who the hell he is then got out and price four trees for $1500.00 and get him to do it for $700.00 and make $800.00 without getting dirty.........lol
> 
> what's next, "we'll remove your trees for what ever price you tell us, what's good for you is enough for us" ..........



I honestly thought about this, and if the guy looks like, and acts like a duche, I'd think about it even more.


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## rarefish383 (Feb 1, 2010)

At our peak each crew had an F600, Asplundh 16" chipper, either a Vermeer model 630 or that big arse Vermeer Model 15. I don't know how many saws and ropes, a 200 gallon Bean spray rig. Plus a big old Hough Pay Loader. There is no way we could operate back then this cheap. Our daily comute was probably about 30 miles. We are in a high rent area, the suburbs of Wash DC. This guy is listing more equipment than we had. I don't know how he can do it, Joe.


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## Walt41 (Feb 1, 2010)

This guy must be using one of those "Obama" calculators to figure his operating costs.


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## highpointtree (Feb 1, 2010)

It's either just a way to get his foot in the door or a cover for other illegal activities. Also have seen a few guys try to push competition out with tactics like that. sometimes it works and other times it backfires.. whatever the reason, don't seem to bright to me.. my moto is half the work for twice the money, not twice the work for half the money. and the equipment and guys are very happy for that..


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## NeoTree (Feb 1, 2010)

I wonder how many people really go on craigslist to look for tree company. I have thought about posting, any one else? That guy must have some deep pockets, i'd like to see him take down a couple of 200 year old oaks hangin over somones house for a buck 75 a peice.


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## mndlawn (Feb 1, 2010)

NeoTree said:


> I wonder how many people really go on craigslist to look for tree company. I have thought about posting, any one else? That guy must have some deep pockets, i'd like to see him take down a couple of 200 year old oaks hangin over somones house for a buck 75 a peice.



Not worth it, almost everyone looking on craigslist wants something for nothing.


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Feb 1, 2010)

*price*

Does bid stay at $175 a tree? Or go up by adding some here and there? Most stores advertise leaders (loss leaders) just to get you THERE! This may get the company to the job. Now if they can close the deal??


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## Pa Tree guy (Feb 1, 2010)

These type of guys are all over my area. It sucks because they are destroying this business. Everybody is a treeman today especially with the economy the way it is. Here's another 
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/hss/1573616052.html


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## Ed Roland (Feb 1, 2010)

Pa Tree guy said:


> These type of guys are all over my area. It sucks because they are destroying this business. Everybody is a treeman today especially with the economy the way it is. Here's another
> http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/hss/1573616052.html



Looks like the above post is in reference to this outfit http://www.markthetreesurgeon.com/

check out the 'in the news' section where he describes the best time to lionstail.


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## Terry L (Feb 1, 2010)

Now for the rest of the story.... Obviously, he won't do all trees for $175 each for a 4 tree minimum. They might know what they are doing tree wise, but to start off a relationship with a potential customer on a very suspicious first impression by posting this ad is stupid from a marketing angle.


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## rarefish383 (Feb 2, 2010)

In response to "Markthetreesomething" add. I get into this argument with landscapers all the time. I ask are you licensed. The reply is always yes my MD Home Improvement License is "da da da". A MHIL doesn't have squat to do with tree work, and I bet in PA a contractors license doesn't have squat to do with tree guys. If one of the licensed PA guys could verify that, thanks. MD went to the ISA certification around 1999, I think I was in that first class. He states $23 for the averge stump removal. I can't even fathom the idea of taking my little Vermeer 630 out for less than beer money. Actually, 23 bucks is what I paid for 2 six packs from Stoudts in Adamstown, PA Saturday. He stated a couple times on his web site free educated estimates. I put in several years at the U of MD as a botany major, but I never finished my degree, does that make my esimate 3/4 educated. This is turning into a first class rant. My Dad and his brother both built multi million dollar tree care businesses. Dad dropped out of school in the 7th grade and my uncle dropped out in the 11th to fight with Patton in Europe. I can't believe that this is what the business is coming to. For $23 dollars I'd tell the customer to pour a bag of match light charcoal on the stump and burn it out. I rented one of those little Dosco grinders once because I had to carry it through a row house in Georgetown, DC. I could have dug the stump out faster, and I wouldn't do that for $23 either. I don't think we ever over charged a customer for any service we provided. Yes, we are in a very high rent area, but dang, $23. I can't think of any thing that I would do for $23 bucks that invloved tree care. My cousin and I are 4th generation in this business, we've paid our dues. I was tying big arse Macs on my Dad's climbing lines with bowlines when I was 6. I can't believe that some one would work for almost free and call any thing he said educated. Soon, my daughter will graduate in a 5 year masters program in occupation therapy, and she will officially be educated, and if she works for $23 I'll smack her silly. I'd like to go on but I had to take 3 anti acids just to get this far, boy I'm glad I got out while the gettin was good, Joe.


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## Rftreeman (Feb 2, 2010)

mndlawn said:


> Not worth it, almost everyone looking on craigslist wants something for nothing.


that's not really true for all areas, my craigslist gigs have turned out to be very profitable gigs with the exception of the ones that didn't like the price but that comes with the business in any type of advertisement...


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## JC Tree (Feb 2, 2010)

Hello there. I am new to this forum and so far I really like all the discussions. This one in particular has been like a breath of fresh air!
Lately there have been so many "joeys" (new guys) out there. Not that there is anything wrong with being new...but...doing tree work for dirt cheap is an absolute insult to our industry. Our work can be considered high risk, our equipment is expensive and so is the proper insurance. All good tree guys take pride in our skills that have taken years to develop, but lets face it...we are in the business to make money, not to do what we love for free.

Quick story...last year we priced a large white pine removal at $750.00. This was a very good deal for our client but given the state of the economy, we could afford to do the job and still turn a small profit for our 3 man crew and the business. We had the job at first, but then we lost it to a lower bid. He bid it at just over $300! WTF!!!!!!!
I know how to price a tree and I know the work involved. It was big and tight to the house. The best of the best climber would have taken at least 2 hours to get it on the ground with no property damage (and thats if the ground crew could actually keep up with him). Figure about 8 yards of chips and a good load of wood to disposal.
I know who did the job and his climbing skills are "average" (everyone thinks they are the best right?) Picture a climber with no hard hat, a 4 man ground crew, 3 trucks plus a bobcat to pick up the wood. He was there for a half day.
Can anyone tell me how long this a#& hole will survive in this business? How does he pay his employees? With food stamps??? *WTF again!!!!*


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## Treecutr (Feb 2, 2010)

I'm feeling that. This past summer I was asked to bid on removing 5 Pines. The shortest was 70' easy. NONE could be felled. They all had to be climbed, topped, and chunked down, decent drop zone, protected wetlands behind it.. One of the trees was leaning at at least 40 degrees over the neighbors pool, and $4,000 landscaped hill. COULD NOT be done any way other than climbing, NO VEHICLE access. have to drag everything to chipper. I bid the job at $3,800 if I remember right, and I had a buyer for the wood. I feel I went low. Some guy showed up a couple days later with a big chipper, and said he'd do it all for $1,000. I didn't belive the HO, thought she was just trying to get me down. I was considering it, but she called and told me she went with him. Until I saw that the work had been done, I didn't believe her. He chipped it all, and was out it a few days. She said he was by himself too??? I don't know.I wish I still had the pics from when I submited my bids. I honestly believe I could have easily charged $700 more and still been a fair price. She later told me the other bids she recieved ranged from $4,300- $6,000. In a way I'm glad I didn't get it, because I would have been cursing myself for working so hard for such a little return, plus at least 1 ground guy.


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## JC Tree (Feb 2, 2010)

Sounds like the same "cheapo-depot" tree guy in my area.

Heres another good one. Last year, a client of ours got a bid from a tree company. It was a few large oak removals, around the house. Not difficult, but definately technical. I figured it would take almost a full day with a 3 man crew (even the fastest would have taken that long) unless a crane was on sight...well, this guy has a 120 ft crane. He gave her a price of $500 for the whole thing including moving all the oak wood to the back yard and cutting up 16".
again...WTF!!!!!

So...we told her that if she showed us the written estimate that we would match the price!
This "other company" has a nice website, new looking equipment and experienced staff. The guy has more than a half hour drive from his shop.

I matched his price just to keep that a#$hole out of my area... going that cheap with that kind of overhead...is he insane????
Guess he is just trying make himself known...I fixed him though....I figure that I can afford to do a "charity" job once a year or so....


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## Treecutr (Feb 2, 2010)

Lol Nice. The same lady I mentioned abouve works for a chiropractor donw the street from me. He has 3 trees that are rediculously dead, fungus all over, conk's hangers, branches fall every time the wind kicks up. I approached the Doctor when he was out picking up branches. I gave him a quote of $850, I could also sell the firewood for at least $300. not tall trees at all. Fence underneath thats not his, cable and phone lines needed to come down. Some chance of hitting power lines too. He said he was just going to cut them down whole. I felt obligated to explain all the reasons why that was a bad idea, and what was going to happen if he wasn't dead nuts perfect. He re thought and said let me run it by his wife ( gutless ) We have talked 3 times since ( that was June ) I drive by EVERY day and shake my head. His customers park under these trees. LAst time I talked to his wife, last week, she said they had a customer who said he felt he could do it just for the wood. Trees are still up, I came down to $650, still no call. This guy says it's too much money. I saw his rate schedule while in his office, roughly works out to $200/HR, he owns the whole building with 3 rental appartments in it, and he hold the patent for the Red Sox rally glasses sold all over our are, and Boston. Cheap prick. Hope no one gets hurt when they fall.


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## fishercat (Feb 2, 2010)

*a lot of that cut throat stuff going on here too.*

I got a call this morning from a nitwit wanting to know if I wanted to take down a nice silver maple in his yard for the wood.Went on and on about how much wood was in the tree.I told him it doesn't work like that.He asks if I knew anyone who did.I told him I used to but they went out of business.

I give him kudos for having the balls to ask a question like that but if it was in person I would have chained him to my splitter until every last piece of wood in my yard was split.


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## Bermie (Feb 3, 2010)

I get ticked off when the joe maintenance landscapers get in on the tree work, charge a lot less, don't know what the ---- they are doing. Thing is they are making their money on their maintenance contracts so are not bothered to properly price tree work, never mind do it properly, ladders, topping...!


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## rarefish383 (Feb 3, 2010)

Guys, I'm with ya on this one. I'm retired and really don't do any work any more. If a close friend or relative asks I hook them up with some one I know.

This subject drives me off a high limb. The grass cutters who try to do tree work drive me nuts too. I can name several times we were called to fix what lawn guys had screwed up. One of our old customers called crying that the lawn guy had cut down a big dead Oak in her back yard. These were high end town houses in Georgtown in DC. The guy stood at the bottom and notched the tree and dropped it across her flower beds and 2 neighbors fences. When we got there the police were there and the guy was trying to explain how it couldn't be done any other way. He never thought about actually climbing the tree. She went on and on how she should have called us first and she was so sorry. She said he told her he was a pro and said he would do it cheap if he could do it now, while he was there. She said she trusted him, like she would have trusted us, and left for a while. We wound up having to jack her good on the clean up. All of these town houses had back yards that backed up to 15 foot retaining walls. If we had of done the job we would have used a crain to pick every thing up and set it in the alley. As it was we had to cut every thing into tiny pieces and carry it through the houses.

I've really enjoyed this site since I found it. It gives me a chance to BS with guys that know what I'm BS'n about. But this subject still ticks me off, Joe.


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## fishercat (Feb 3, 2010)

*In a way,Ilke it.*



Bermie said:


> I get ticked off when the joe maintenance landscapers get in on the tree work, charge a lot less, don't know what the ---- they are doing. Thing is they are making their money on their maintenance contracts so are not bothered to properly price tree work, never mind do it properly, ladders, topping...!



the look on their face when I give them the price to bail them out is priceless.I alway seem to charge more than what they are getting to do the job.

HMMMMMMMMMM,you don't say.


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## Greenthorn (Feb 3, 2010)

I actually believe this is the same company that offers to mow yer yard all summer for the $249 special.They must


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## rwbinbc (Feb 3, 2010)

*I did the same Till My father-in-law Showed Me different*

Me and My friend where taking trees down for $50 to a $100 just to get the firewood for us to burn, I was climbing with a craftman electric saw and no ropes. Did that for about 5 or 6 year to get firewood for us to burn. Now My new wife, Her dad has been doing this for the past 35+ years. I worked with him for the the last 18 months and He showed Me what I was missing out on. The work was easier and paid alot better. Trees I took down for $50 He would get $800 all day. Now I starting My own Tree Service, I Buying My truck and chipper within the next two weeks. I will never go back to the low prices but, There are trees I would take down for $175 all day long. It might 6 or 8 of them for Me to get a rick of wood out of but, $175 x 6 = a good 8 hours of pay for Me.

It is this or stand in line at the wellfare office


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## Treecutr (Feb 4, 2010)

I have one regular customer, not sure if this actually fits here, but....who absoloutley doesn't get the flat rate charge. I tell him $800 for tree " X " and he asks how long, I tell him " X " amount of time. I do the tree in less time so he says what do you want for your work, I tell him $800 like we agreed. He says, but you did it 2 hours faster than you said. So he insists on hourly. I explain that I don't like hourly because I don't want anyone thinking I'm milking them for more money. He says, I trust you. So he again asks what do I want an hour. So I tell him $125/hr. So he adds it up,..... $800. LOL He pays me, and I have been back there 3-4 times, not alyaws to trim or remove trees. I have planted a few shrubs, done some minor wiring, and changed some 8' long light bulbs. Its a RICH couple's summer home that is probably a $500,000 home ( average for that area ) Awesome house. HO is a HUGE tree lover, and only wants dead stuff removed, fine with that. However he wants more light on his deck, and asked me back to trim away branches to open up area over deck. I tell him it will ONLY help when sun is directly overhead, and after an hour or so it'd be shade again. Only way he can get lots of light like he wants is to remove several large trees from behind house. He insists trimming will work. I do the trim, he calls a few days laterto tell me that it's not enough. He is going to call me when they come back in the spring to discuss options. He's always a pain in the ass, and you can count on AT LEAST 2 hours of walking around and talking, etc.... Hey he's paying for me to be there.


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## lxt (Feb 4, 2010)

woodweasel said:


> Looks like the above post is in reference to this outfit http://www.markthetreesurgeon.com/
> 
> check out the 'in the news' section where he describes the best time to lionstail.





He is actually a competitor, he doesnt do "bad" work.....but he doesnt do "good" work either!! I know most of the guys he mentioned in his "news" page, well atleast know of them!! Funny Mark & his boys couldnt make it through the apprenticeship for the Line clearance trimmers. 

I love those types they get hired by BS`ing the GF, they can do this & are masters of that, they come out all cocky, tough & full of knowledge(not), the problem is they dont like being told how to do something & their way will kill everyone!!

They think they know more than what they do, funny 50ft up & over the lines then they want help (what do I do?) where did all your knowledge go? they last 2wks to a month & then leave....cuz by now everyone knows they`re full of it & treat them as the non wanting to learn joke they are!!

Then these types go out & start a tree biz claiming to be the best! LMFAO, this trade is in a sorry state!!!!


LXT...............


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## fishercat (Feb 5, 2010)

*as long as they are paying*



Treecutr said:


> I have one regular customer, not sure if this actually fits here, but....who absoloutley doesn't get the flat rate charge. I tell him $800 for tree " X " and he asks how long, I tell him " X " amount of time. I do the tree in less time so he says what do you want for your work, I tell him $800 like we agreed. He says, but you did it 2 hours faster than you said. So he insists on hourly. I explain that I don't like hourly because I don't want anyone thinking I'm milking them for more money. He says, I trust you. So he again asks what do I want an hour. So I tell him $125/hr. So he adds it up,..... $800. LOL He pays me, and I have been back there 3-4 times, not alyaws to trim or remove trees. I have planted a few shrubs, done some minor wiring, and changed some 8' long light bulbs. Its a RICH couple's summer home that is probably a $500,000 home ( average for that area ) Awesome house. HO is a HUGE tree lover, and only wants dead stuff removed, fine with that. However he wants more light on his deck, and asked me back to trim away branches to open up area over deck. I tell him it will ONLY help when sun is directly overhead, and after an hour or so it'd be shade again. Only way he can get lots of light like he wants is to remove several large trees from behind house. He insists trimming will work. I do the trim, he calls a few days laterto tell me that it's not enough. He is going to call me when they come back in the spring to discuss options. He's always a pain in the ass, and you can count on AT LEAST 2 hours of walking around and talking, etc.... Hey he's paying for me to be there.



they can be a PITA all they want.

Here,they are a PITA and they don't pay either.


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## Dale (Feb 16, 2010)

Son, I wish you all the luck in your new business endeavor. You seem to have the fortitude to succeed, and I commend you. But, I just got done getting rheemed by all the PERFESSIONAL arborists on this site on another post, and even called a Troll, then come across this and just had to laugh. I reckon that I'm stunned they didn't admonish you and chide you off their professional forum with your tail betwixt yer legs. HAHA !!!



> Me and My friend where taking trees down for $50 to a $100 just to get the firewood for us to burn, I was climbing with a craftman electric saw and no ropes. Did that for about 5 or 6 year to get firewood for us to burn.



Be safe son.


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## pdqdl (Feb 16, 2010)

rwbinbc said:


> ...There are trees I would take down for $175 all day long. It might 6 or 8 of them for Me to get a rick of wood out of but, $175 x 6 = a good 8 hours of pay for Me.



That just doesn't make any sense. You will get a rick of wood out almost any single $175 tree around here. Maybe two trees if they are a bit overpriced.

6 trees for $1050 to make ONE rick of firewood?  Sign me up! I'll throw all of it in my chipper, and I won't bother with the firewood.


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## rwbinbc (Feb 17, 2010)

Maybe off abit, We take down ash and cherry in a yards and charge 4 to 7hundred to do the job. We might get a rick, rick and a half out of it. I was trying to say tree for 175 I would do but they wouldn't be very big or just big one cut and drop.

Sorry


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