# If you log for yourself, how did you get started? Loading, skidding, etc?



## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 25, 2013)

I would rather be logging in the winter than cutting firewood, splitting it, delivering it, etc. Do I have to have a bobcat or tractor to skid and load these logs, or is there an easier way besides sitting at home and not even considering it? I have a great walnut tree on the ground, no knots, 20 feet long, 20 inches at the top, and have no way to load it. The landowner has a bobcat, but can only help on Saturday, his day off. Seems to be alot of work for a log, it came down alot easier than this, im interested in hearing how you got started, did you just save up and get equipment once piece at a time, or were you handed down skidders and the sort from day 1? Its looking like logging is a bit like farming, you gotta have the big toys to get the big checks.


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## twochains (Dec 25, 2013)

I started out sawmilling at an ERC mill. Within 5 months of working there I was logging for the same mill. Being that ERC is light, I always carried out all my logs and hand loaded onto a 1 ton. I got to where I could shoulder out 8'4 cedar logs up to 1 o 13" on the little end. Several years later I started logging with horses, hand loading. 

I figure it all depends on what type timber you are in. ERC and pine poles can all be handled, the rest you need equipment. Start small, buy pieces of equipment that you can use for multi-purpose and build your Empire from there. Good luck man! Merry Christmas!


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 25, 2013)

twochains said:


> I started out sawmilling at an ERC mill. Within 5 months of working there I was logging for the same mill. Being that ERC is light, I always carried out all my logs and hand loaded onto a 1 ton. I got to where I could shoulder out 8'4 cedar logs up to 1 o 13" on the little end. Several years later I started logging with horses, hand loading.
> 
> I figure it all depends on what type timber you are in. ERC and pine poles can all be handled, the rest you need equipment. Start small, buy pieces of equipment that you can use for multi-purpose and build your Empire from there. Good luck man! Merry Christmas!


Thanks for the info! Tons of ERC around here, but the walnut log is a monster. Might wait till the landowner can load it. Tons of large oak, 3 sides clean, I just haven't dropped those until i figure out a sure way to load them. I appreciate the feedback, will be building things up a little at a time. Thinking about getting a norwood log skidder, hooks up to a ball hitch and seems to be a cheaper way to skid logs until i can get a big tractor. THanks again, Merry Christmas and stay safe out there!


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## steve easy (Dec 25, 2013)

Got this made, axle set up was modified half dozen times before it could handle the weight of logs. 8274 is a great winch but didnt like the long pulls, making another now with hydraulic winch.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 25, 2013)

steve easy said:


> Got this made, axle set up was modified half dozen times before it could handle the weight of logs. 8274 is a great winch but didnt like the long pulls, making another now with hydraulic winch.View attachment 324097
> View attachment 324098
> View attachment 324099


Thats nice! good solid axle, hydrualic winch souldn't be hard to add since you got the lift already. One piece at a time for sure it looks like, gonna have to start small this winter but maybe next year if i start early november i can get some bigger equipment for the next year. Good thing is the tops are always good for firewood so that will be a plus  Anyone else keep big cedar logs for carving? I have a few im sitting on.


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## exSW (Dec 25, 2013)

DO NOT pi$$ around with a farm or industrial tractor.Get a regular skidder or a crawler/loader with rops,winch and log arch.Skid steers are handy little gizmos but in the woods not so much.Once the belly pan bottoms in the mud you are there for a while(been there done that heard the ridicule)


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## KYLogger (Dec 25, 2013)

I started logging with a 383 MF FWA tractor with a FEL and a winch. Skidded, loaded and all with same piece of equipment. That limited the type of terrain I could log because I lacked road building capabilities. It was fine for logging on the side. When I decided to start my own company and make this my living I purchased the right (well sorta  ) equipment for the job. In this neck of the woods that's and older skidder and a small dozer with a winch. I already had a good truck. I still loaded with the farm tractor until we got the knuckleboom, that was probably the biggest improvement on production we have made. Hunted hard to find good equipment for a reasonable price. As work got better I have upgraded where and when I could. I partnered up with a really good dude and our equipment compliments each others.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 25, 2013)

I cant find skidder for under $20k used anywhere less than 200 miles from here or so. Looks like its gonna be a long struggle, but im ready to put the work in. Thanks for the heads up guys. Skid steer would be nice, but your right, in the snow around here once it got stuck i would be screwed. A good sized tractor or used dozer would be the same amount , not sure which direction i will go might try one or the other first before i buy, got access to a couple to use at times.


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## KYLogger (Dec 25, 2013)

I got my 440B for $9,000 and have had to do nothing to it but put a new ground cable on. Makes me money everyday. You can score an older TJ, Clark or Tree Farmer for 3-6K around here all day long. They may need a little TLC but I know a couple buddies who log with em, and do pretty good at it. The 450E with a 3305 winch ran me 20k, got the truck mounted Ramer knuckleboom with a C70 3208 Cat, Allison tranny (that I would drive to California) for 5k, my 91 Int single axle (would also drive to Cali) for 4k. I log with it all everyday, and I do have to work on it some but it makes me money without the payments! All for less than most of the used late model skidders around here!


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 25, 2013)

KYLogger said:


> I got my 440B for $9,000 and have had to do nothing to it but put a new ground cable on. Makes me money everyday. You can score an older TJ, Clark or Tree Farmer for 3-6K around here all day long. They may need a little TLC but I know a couple buddies who log with em, and do pretty good at it. The 450E with a 3305 winch ran me 20k, got the truck mounted Ramer knuckleboom with a C70 3208 Cat, Allison tranny (that I would drive to California) for 5k, my 91 Int single axle (would also drive to Cali) for 4k. I log with it all everyday, and I do have to work on it some but it makes me money without the payments! All for less than most of the used late model skidders around here!


WOW i will be looking at those model #'s first thing tomm, got them wrote down. I think im gonna start with the norwood skidder , $800 , has a ball hitch, so my 4wd could pull some out of the timber for me until i get something bigger, then knuckleboom, etc. Thanks, I seriously thought i was gonna need $20k at least to start, but seems its the same as how i started tree work, get some new ropes, an okay used harness, some used gaffs, and work up from there, i got enough equipment for that now, time to get this winter income going. I appreciate the feedback, looks like im not so far off from getting going after all. Im glad im here in the hilly part of KS, trees all over, and these guys clearing for building are tossin money burning all the trees in a pile for sure. I shake my head everytime i see a pile of good sized trees that could have made the trip to the mill.


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## northmanlogging (Dec 26, 2013)

started with just a basket case 046, some borrowed tree climbing gear, and a wore out ford ranger. Then got a seized up 1941 ford 9n for $300. and a bottle of whiskey, got her going and spar pole logged with it for a couple of years, built the gyppo yarder, ran that for a year (traded firewood for most of the parts). That made me enough to get the skidder, 1971 John Deere 440A, paid $4500 for it 2 miles from home, other then a fuel line issue some rotten hydraulic lines a leaky hydro cylinder, and a hole I'm still trying to plug in the fuel tank, she's been a great machine. Just picked up a dump truck a few weeks ago for 5k, and should be getting a trailer to go with it by spring.

A farm tractor of any size or weight is really not cut out for logging, but being a tractor they will do a fare enough job of it to get you going in the short term, you just have to be very careful of roll overs and swinging debris... on flat ground with good skid trails tractors do just fine, once things get a little rough or muddy your going to want big 4 wheel drive or tracks, and a nice thick cage with lots of expanded steel protection, and a big ugly winch on the back...

I'm still employed full time building parts for the death star, but logging is now self reliant, and contributing a fair amount to the house hold budget. Once I have a full plate of timber in front of me I'm more then confident I could swing it full time, with just the equipment I have now.

My current wish list though (in no particular order):

Back hoe for loading logs and general digging work(Have one now 5-4-14)

Dozer with a winch, for building road and bailing out any other equipment, or for logging steepish ground, but not so steep as to need a yarder...

Excavator/log loader/shovel, mostly for log loading, but also a very versatile machine...

Yarder... probably a little one, or convert an excavator to a yoder...

Maybe someday get my CDL and pick up a self loader, for now though I'm content to let the other folks run trucks for me.

Stihl 661, and an 880... because... and stuff...


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Dec 26, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> started with just a basket case 046, some borrowed tree climbing gear, and a wore out ford ranger. Then got a seized up 1941 ford 9n for $300. and a bottle of whiskey, got her going and spar pole logged with it for a couple of years, built the gyppo yarder, ran that for a year (traded firewood for most of the parts). That made me enough to get the skidder, 1971 John Deere 440A, paid $4500 for it 2 miles from home, other then a fuel line issue some rotten hydraulic lines a leaky hydro cylinder, and a hole I'm still trying to plug in the fuel tank, she's been a great machine. Just picked up a dump truck a few weeks ago for 5k, and should be getting a trailer to go with it by spring.
> 
> A farm tractor of any size or weight is really not cut out for logging, but being a tractor they will do a fare enough job of it to get you going in the short term, you just have to be very careful of roll overs and swinging debris... on flat ground with good skid trails tractors do just fine, once things get a little rough or muddy your going to want big 4 wheel drive or tracks, and a nice thick cage with lots of expanded steel protection, and a big ugly winch on the back...
> 
> ...



WOW a Ford 9n, tons of those around here, a few that had restorations some years back are going for 2-3k running great, saw one go for $700 running with good hydros couple weeks back. Got any links to how to build a gyppo yarder? Just curious, cause google search didn't bring anything up, building one i could use for myself trading for parts would be very useful to get me going, especially with the ground thats waitin for me to log it, some rough ground even 4wd would have issues with, so bein able to skid those logs down the hill would help me. Its not that steep, but is an incline though.


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## slowp (Dec 26, 2013)

I don't log. I've worked around it for some time. What happens here is somebody young starts working for a logger, finds out he likes it, may be taken under the wing of the guy he works for, and eventually goes out on his own. Read _Logger's World, _which is a monthly publication. Each issue profiles a company and they tell how they got started. 

I have never seen a farm tractor or skid steer used for skidding or loading. You'd be so limited as to the ground you could work on, and the size of timber you could work with, besides tipping over or tearing up the ground. 

One gypo was having a hard time making a go of it. He had moved here from Oregon. He didn't have the same crew. He was hiring fallers who had Idaho or Oregon license plates and they were not showing up for work reliably. He ran into a guy who suggested he pay more and hire a couple of local fallers. He did, they got ahead of the yarding and worked for him whenever he worked in this area. I guess the moral is, if you need to hire folks, pay a decent wage and get good people. Eventually, guys liked to work for this guy, because he always paid them on time.

Logging is a boom bust business. Save money during the good times to keep you out of trouble in the bad. The little recession we just saw really cleaned it out--big time.


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## northmanlogging (Dec 26, 2013)

the gyppo yarder is just a couple of deuce and and a half winches on a small trailer with a 10hp motor, its slow very slow, but it'll move logs.

The old 9n is just about wore the hell out now, it still pulls a plow just fine but its not up to logging anymore.

If you're serious about giving it a go logging, get an old skidder or dozer with a winch. Productivity is the name of the game. Don't be afraid to look farther afield for equipment, sometimes the best deal is several states away. Long distance trucking isn't all that bad, not cheap but doable.

Whatever you do stay out from under a payment, while it may be necessary to get a loan, pay it off as soon as possible. Tractors work on flat solid ground, anything else becomes an experience in pucker power.


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 26, 2013)

I can't add much here as I was born into this work. but if I was you i'd look for a small powershift skidder first. should be able to find one around 7,000 or so.......540 deere, 664 clark, 360 jack, something in that size. you can prolly hire out the loading hauling.


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## KYLogger (Dec 26, 2013)

Ms.P, we are talking about different terrain and timber. Alot of small time (probably what you all call farmer loggers) load with tractors around here. We also have alot of part time loggers, who log on the side (much to us fulltime guys dismay, LOL) We buck our logs 8' min- 16' maximum length in hardwood. You were correct, a tractor is very limited to the type of terrain it can work. A decent sized tractor (80hp & up) with a good FEL will handle all but the biggest of em. That's what I started with. A rubber tired or track loader (not a shovel) will tear up the landing when it is muddy out. While the ground here in E. Ky is excessively steep and our landings are usually very tight, we tend to skid the timber downhill and put our landings in the bottom ground. Which makes a knuckleboom ideal, but starting out the versatility and affordability factor often lend themselves to a tractor (around here). We are also not producing near the volume you all are either. A good week for me is somewhere in the 20,000bdft range. But the relatively high value of our timber makes up the difference. We do not have logging outfits around here that hire 20-30 guys. Most are a 3-4 man operation, some are a 6-8 man outfit. Just different type of logging!

Tom


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## Gypo Logger (May 4, 2014)

How I got started .
was in 1981. I had just quit the railroad as a car knocker after 4 yrs of service cause I was looking for higher adventure.
So I moved to northern BC and lived with the Indians for 6 months who put a wood cutting curse upon me. To this day I cant shake that curse.

Late fall of 81 I found myself hitch hiking up and down Vancouver Island looking for work during a recession
I got a ride from a Finlander who hired me as a very green tree spacer. 3 years and 5 266's later I was the Wayne Gretzky of tree spacing.

When that all dried up I went back to Ontario and firewooded for ten years, had three great kids , got divorced and got into logging when log prices skyrocketed.
Ten years later, prices dropped so I sold everything and moved here to the Yukon and haven't looked back.. Still looking for my next adventure though.
John PS: this thread should be a sticky


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## amscontr (May 6, 2014)

We're getting ready to do a little logging on some land we have and we're going to give this Gehl 7800 with an Erskine Log Grapple a shot.


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## CanopyGorilla (May 11, 2014)

amscontr said:


> We're getting ready to do a little logging on some land we have and we're going to give this Gehl 7800 with an Erskine Log Grapple a shot.View attachment 348886
> View attachment 348888


I like that!


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## KiwiBro (May 15, 2014)

Just a side note about tractors. I agree they are not the shizzle in soft or steep terrain, they are versatile and depending on the log sizes, if you mount a high enough capacity PTO winch on 'em, you can always winch them through the dicey bits and then keep skidding. A reasonable stepping stone until bigger and better things can be found and had.


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## Dpown (May 16, 2014)

How heavy do you need to pull? A tractor/truck winch may be unnecessary and you could just use a more portable winch.


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## 4x4American (May 22, 2014)

How have yawl found best for getting the word out about your company and getting the jobs? And how does the whole bidding deal work?


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## chucker (May 22, 2014)

the parents were into raising a family of 12 kids(6 boys an 6 girls), so it was kind of handed down with the rest of the farm. strong backs an weak minds make for a life of hard work with the days worth to be seen at dark. mornings close!....


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