# 390 pipe build



## gink595 (May 20, 2012)

Here is the build progress for Brad's 390 pipe. This one has been fun to make so far. As far as I'm concerned the hard part is done (the patterns). Just a bunch of hand labor now! I posted some of these pic on Brads 390 thread but I'll repost some of them here.

Here is the auto cad drawings that I did Friday night. It looks fairly simple when it looks like this but this took about 4 hours to get this to pattern form. Alot of drawing!


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## gink595 (May 20, 2012)

I'm doing a different type of header flange to the cylinder. This is the first time I've tried this, we'll see how it goes.

I milled out the area I wanted on one side.






I chucked the block up in the lathe and I cut the diameter of the pipe and recessed it.


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## 3000 FPS (May 20, 2012)

Very Nice and very impressive to say the least. If you do not mind I have a couple of questions. At what RPM is the exhaust designed to operate at for peak performance and are you going to Tig weld all the seams or gas weld? Thanks.

PS I did notice the Tig handle in one of the pics.


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## blsnelling (May 20, 2012)

It's great to see a build thread on this pipe. These are skills that we don't see much of on this forum


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## parrisw (May 21, 2012)

Very nice frank. I like your idea on the flange.


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 21, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Very nice frank. I like your idea on the flange.



Nice idea!

How do you plan on fastening steel to alum?


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## MtnHermit (May 21, 2012)

gink595 said:


>


This must be a race saw, not a working saw.

I'm VERY impressed with your entire effort, drawings, paper models, and almost finished pipe. First Class!


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## blsnelling (May 21, 2012)

MtnHermit said:


> This must be a race saw, not a working saw.



Just a GTG toy. I doubt it would be competitive elsewhere, since it would have to run in the open class against built 3120s and the like.


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## MtnHermit (May 21, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Just a GTG toy.


Big boys and their toys, I'm guilty of that too. 



> I doubt it would be competitive elsewhere, since it would have to run in the open class against built 3120s and the like.


Didn't know that subtlety.

Gink must be a good friend, he could bill out his time at $100/hr, he's that talented.


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## WoodChuck'r (May 21, 2012)

Gink that is awesome!


Purely badass buddeh! :cool2: ::thumbsup::


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## blsnelling (May 21, 2012)

MtnHermit said:


> Big boys and their toys, I'm guilty of that too.
> 
> 
> Didn't know that subtlety.
> ...



I'm paying, but no where near what it's probably worth. That's where the hobby side comes into play. If he didn't love doing it, he would certainly be doing something else. I appreciate his labor! He is a craftsman.


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## gink595 (May 21, 2012)

3000 FPS said:


> Very Nice and very impressive to say the least. If you do not mind I have a couple of questions. At what RPM is the exhaust designed to operate at for peak performance and are you going to Tig weld all the seams or gas weld? Thanks.
> 
> PS I did notice the Tig handle in one of the pics.



The dimensions of the pipe were copied from a previous pipe that worked well. I did however redo the pipe and I figured for the math at 12,000 rpm. The previous pipe had a straight header so I made this one a 2* taper until it got to the divergent cone and then that tapers at 3*. I will be tig welding the pipe.



manyhobies said:


> Nice idea!
> 
> How do you plan on fastening steel to alum?



I am going to counter sink the holes for the block to bolt to the cylinder and then I'm building a steel flange that will weld to the header that will bolt to the block of aluminum. Bolting these pipes up can be a pita if you make the flange bolt to the cylinder. I figure this way I can spread that out a bit on the block to make it easier to bolt on.



MtnHermit said:


> Big boys and their toys, I'm guilty of that too.
> 
> 
> Didn't know that subtlety.
> ...



That is the problem with this type of work, the amount of time and effort never matches the pay and skill involved in making such things. It typically comes down to the challenge of building it for me. By the time it is said and done I'll have close to 35 hours in this one, looking at this simple pipe no one would guess until you start to build one. Everything is one off and consumes lots of time to figure out and trail and error. I think drawing it out before hand saves alot of time in the build and it looks clean because it is pre-planned. Some of the pipes I've seen look a abortion with the irregular cone lengths and you can tell it was a fit and grind to make work. But that don't mean it didn't work, just ugly as all get out! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## MtnHermit (May 21, 2012)

gink595 said:


> That is the problem with this type of work, the amount of time and effort never matches the pay and skill involved in making such things. It typically comes down to the challenge of building it for me. By the time it is said and done I'll have close to 35 hours in this one, looking at this simple pipe no one would guess until you start to build one. Everything is one off and consumes lots of time to figure out and trail and error. I think drawing it out before hand saves alot of time in the build and it looks clean because it is pre-planned. Some of the pipes I've seen look a abortion with the irregular cone lengths and you can tell it was a fit and grind to make work. But that don't mean it didn't work, just ugly as all get out!


The project as presented (drawings, photos, models, finished part) would look great on a resume. If you wanted to work for a big budget Indy car builder, they would be impressed with only 35 hours, I am.

As the economy picks up your talents will be in increased demand. Good on you.

Brad owes you a beer.


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## RBurtcher (May 21, 2012)

*Very nice!*

How and what did you use to form the sheetmetal? A few pics would be awsome.


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## timmcat (May 21, 2012)

Why only build to 12000 rpm? The saw is capable of more than that in stock form. Or are you setting the lengths based on 12000 in the cut? Is your transition piece/mount machined to keep the area cross section consistant with the taper in the exhaust port or did you allow for the extra length in your calculations? The work looks awesome, I was going to do a pipe for my 7900 or ms 650but haven't had the time.


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## blsnelling (May 21, 2012)

That would be for 12K in the cut.


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## jeepyfz450 (May 21, 2012)

Very very nice work. I cant believe how nice and smooth your size transitions are. I would really like to build a pipe. I bought a used RM80 pipe my buddy and I had to cut it down and build a header piece. it really woke the saw up. great work cant wait to see the vid when Brad gets it mounted.


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## Rudolf73 (May 21, 2012)

Looking good! :msp_thumbup:


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## gink595 (May 21, 2012)

I'm going to try back purging this pipe when I weld it. I've never tried it but I have friend that has been up my butt about doing it. He swears I'll never weld another one without it. We'll see! I have seen the results of doing it this way it does look nice on the inside. Makes a real smooth weld on the inside.

Here is the regulator that is on my welder.





Just added a Y and another line that will routed inside the pipe.


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## parrisw (May 21, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I'm going to try back purging this pipe when I weld it. I've never tried it but I have friend that has been up my butt about doing it. He swears I'll never weld another one without it. We'll see! I have seen the results of doing it this way it does look nice on the inside. Makes a real smooth weld on the inside.
> 
> Here is the regulator that is on my welder.
> 
> ...



I've heard that too Frank. Down side is you go through allot of gas. I need a bigger tank for my Tig.


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## gink595 (May 21, 2012)

RBurtcher said:


> How and what did you use to form the sheetmetal? A few pics would be awsome.



I have a 4' Pexto stomp shear that I use to cut the straights. I have a bunch of #### piled on it at the moment!












Then I have this rotary shear that I used to cut the curves out with. This was my grandfathers shear.






Here is how I roll most of the pieces, some are to small to roll. Most of the header pieces are all done by hand.


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## parrisw (May 21, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I have a 4' Pexto stomp shear that I use to cut the straights. I have a bunch of #### piled on it at the moment!
> 
> Then I have this rotary shear that I used to cut the curves out with. This was my grandfathers shear.



Your drill bits are upside down.


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## gink595 (May 21, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Your drill bits are upside down.



There is a reason for that!


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## parrisw (May 21, 2012)

gink595 said:


> There is a reason for that!



The spun in the drill creating a burr, and now wont go in the right way?


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## gink595 (May 21, 2012)

parrisw said:


> The spun in the drill creating a burr, and now wont go in the right way?



Yup! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## timmcat (May 21, 2012)

Then I have this rotary shear that I used to cut the curves out with. This was my grandfathers shear.







That rotary shear is way old school, I'm jealous. Having the jump shear and roller are cool too!

Whats the jug with the tilly on it from?


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## parrisw (May 21, 2012)

gink595 said:


> Yup! :hmm3grin2orange:



LOL, it drive me banana's, I'm a bit anal about organization of my tools at work. If mine get a burr I grind it off.


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## gink595 (May 21, 2012)

timmcat said:


> Then I have this rotary shear that I used to cut the curves out with. This was my grandfathers shear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah that shear is really cool. When my grandfather passed my grandma told me to go out is his shop and take a few things, the was the first thing I grabbed!

That cylinder is going on a 372.


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 21, 2012)

New school: CNC Plasma! That would sweeten your pipe build! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## FATGUY (May 21, 2012)

Frank, I can't begin to convey how much I admire your work. Well done sir.:msp_thumbup:

btw, love the ACAD dwgs, I don't make anything unless I draw it first.


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 21, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> Frank, I can't begin to convey how much I admire your work. Well done sir.:msp_thumbup:
> 
> btw, love the ACAD dwgs, I don't make anything unless I draw it first.



You draw in AutoCad too?


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## gink595 (May 21, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> New school: CNC Plasma! That would sweeten your pipe build! :hmm3grin2orange:



Actually we have one at work, one of these days I'm going to put into the nesting program and see how it does. The thinnest we do out there is .060 and it doesn't do a great job due to the speed they run it at.





FATGUY said:


> Frank, I can't begin to convey how much I admire your work. Well done sir.:msp_thumbup:
> 
> btw, love the ACAD dwgs, I don't make anything unless I draw it first.



Thanks Nik! I agree after spending years as a Structural detailer(draftsman) I've learned to slow down and take the time to draw it out. Sure saves alot of time in the long run, plus after 10 years with Acad I've become efficient at it! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## FATGUY (May 21, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> You draw in AutoCad too?



sure do, part of the job for me. Sounds like you do too?


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## FATGUY (May 21, 2012)

gink595 said:


> Actually we have one at work, one of these days I'm going to put into the nesting program and see how it does. The thinnest we do out there is .060 and it doesn't do a great job due to the speed they run it at.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



well said. Surprises at the final steps of a job are never a good thing...


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## Anthony_Va. (May 21, 2012)

gink595 said:


> Thanks Nik! I agree after spending years as a Structural detailer(draftsman) I've learned to slow down and take the time to draw it out. Sure saves alot of time in the long run, plus after 10 years with Acad I've become efficient at it! :hmm3grin2orange:



So what you're trying to say is: measure twice, cut once. :msp_razz:

Taking time with figuring always makes for an easier job, I agree.


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## Stihlofadeal64 (May 21, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> New school: CNC Plasma! That would sweeten your pipe build! :hmm3grin2orange:



Or CNC laser. (CNC punch press would easily cut the arcs and radii as well). Both machines could do the nest for your parts. That's a great idea as well. I suppose the thickness of the pipe material was quite a bit thinner than the 16 ga? 

Although I do like the layout and use of the equipment the OP has. Brings back memories of many fab jobs. Thanks for posting. :msp_thumbup:


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## Adirondackstihl (May 21, 2012)

gink595 said:


> after spending years as a Structural detailer(draftsman)



I've been detailing structural, misc (handrails etc..) & rebar for the past 9.5yrs. Thats where I learned my CAD skills. Structural is my fav outta the 3. Creating one off signs and burning them on our 10ft x 20ft CNC Hypertherm Plasma table tops the cake though :msp_thumbup:


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## Rudolf73 (May 21, 2012)

Adirondackstihl said:


> I've been detailing structural, misc (handrails etc..) & rebar for the past 9.5yrs. Thats where I learned my CAD skills. Structural is my fav outta the 3. Creating one off signs and burning them on our 10ft x 20ft CNC Hypertherm Plasma table tops the cake though :msp_thumbup:



How is the accuracy with CNC plasma these days? We have stuck with laser up to now for accuracy clean cut reason...


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## Dennis Cahoon (May 21, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I use a gear reduced bandsaw to cutout this type of cone pattern.


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## deye223 (May 21, 2012)

opcorn:


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## Andyshine77 (May 21, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I have a 4' Pexto stomp shear that I use to cut the straights. I have a bunch of #### piled on it at the moment!



Frank you have too many cool toys, and I'm not just talking about the metal working tools.


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## Jacob J. (May 22, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> Frank you have too many cool toys, and I'm not just talking about the metal working tools.



You should see what's in his bedroom closet...


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## Andyshine77 (May 22, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> You should see what's in his bedroom closet...



I'll pass.:msp_ohmy:


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## Tzed250 (May 22, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I'm going to try back purging this pipe when I weld it. I've never tried it but I have friend that has been up my butt about doing it. He swears I'll never weld another one without it. We'll see! I have seen the results of doing it this way it does look nice on the inside. Makes a real smooth weld on the inside.



Sweet! One of the master welders here at work won't TIG weld pipe without an interior purge. He says the weld quality goes up quite a bit.


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## nmurph (May 22, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> Frank, I can't begin to convey how much I admire your work. Well done sir.:msp_thumbup:
> 
> btw, love the ACAD dwgs, I don't make anything unless I draw it first.



Bet that slows down the sandwich consumption quite a bit...

Frank, very nice work as always.


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## stinkbait (May 22, 2012)

gink595 said:


> Thanks Nik! I agree after spending years as a Structural detailer(draftsman) I've learned to slow down and take the time to draw it out. Sure saves alot of time in the long run, plus after 10 years with Acad I've become efficient at it! :hmm3grin2orange:



AutoCAD was the first drafting program I learned. I have been using it for 9 years now, and I love it. That program has kept me employed since I was 18. Your drawings of the pipe look great, but what method do you use to figure out those curves for each individual piece?


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## Adirondackstihl (May 22, 2012)

Rudolf73 said:


> How is the accuracy with CNC plasma these days? We have stuck with laser up to now for accuracy clean cut reason...



Plasma will never be as clean as laser.
But I can cut 2" plate with our plasma.


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## FATGUY (May 22, 2012)

nmurph said:


> Bet that slows down the sandwich consumption quite a bit...
> 
> Frank, very nice work as always.



are you kidding?! I can draw with one hand and eat with the other!


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## stinkbait (May 22, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> are you kidding?! I can draw with one hand and eat with the other!



I bet your keyboard is a buffet for rodents. lol


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## Tzed250 (May 22, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> are you kidding?! I can draw with one hand and eat with the other!



Oh yeah! Cycle Start and a Snickers bar...good stuff!


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## FATGUY (May 22, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Oh yeah! Cycle Start and a Snickers bar...good stuff!



I had a boss years ago that was such a prick he told a new guy that if he wanted to, he could eat his lunch while running his machine, so he didn't have to go to the break room.


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## Tzed250 (May 22, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I had a boss years ago that was such a prick he told a new guy that if he wanted to, he could eat his lunch while running his machine, so he didn't have to go to the break room.



Nothing quite like someone that takes pride in being a jerk.


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## gink595 (May 22, 2012)

This job is killing me! Working 14 hours a day, use the mill table as my dinner table! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## gink595 (May 22, 2012)

I got alot done tonight. Pretty much if I wasn't standing at the lathe I was standing at the mill and sometimes alternating between the two.

I got the adjustable belly section machined out and ready for the cones to be welded to them. I have to cut to the final lengths yet.


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## parrisw (May 22, 2012)

gink595 said:


> This job is killing me! Working 14 hours a day, use the mill table as my dinner table! :hmm3grin2orange:



Wow, that's a big belly section.!!

Amazing how much time you burn custom making something. If you can believe it I spent 5 hours today fixing, welding, fabing up supports for a vintage Volkswagen Tent tubes. Never thought I'd spend that much time.


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## gink595 (May 22, 2012)

Got the head back safe and sound from Copsey, he put the o-ring in it for me. Looked really good!






Started on the exhaust block for the header to bolt to.


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## parrisw (May 22, 2012)

Wow, Brad must be doing something extra special for you!!!!!!


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## 3000 FPS (May 22, 2012)

Well I have to ask another question. The adjustable belly section, is this so that you can vary the length to better fit the sonic wave of the saw after you get it running? So far it is very impressive.


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## Andyshine77 (May 22, 2012)

3000 FPS said:


> Well I have to ask another question. The adjustable belly section, is this so that you can vary the length to better fit the sonic wave of the saw after you get it running? So far it is very impressive.



Yes. The tip length often needs some fine tuning as well, but I'm far from an expert.

She is coming together nicely Frank.


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## Dennis Cahoon (May 23, 2012)

Gink, You want an over-all short pipe, making a very small powerband, to jumb up on the top end and hold rev.......just go with what you have for length, cut and paste the header till you get the rev you need.......or phone somebody that's built saw pipes......Hahahahahahaha!


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## parrisw (May 23, 2012)

Back when I was into 2stroke RC Airplanes. I'd get a tuned pipe that's made for the size of engine, then I would alter the length of the header for tuning, worked very well. So going by what Dennis says, it makes sense.


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Gink, You want an over-all short pipe, making a very small powerband, to jumb up on the top end and hold rev.......just go with what you have for length, cut and paste the header till you get the rev you need.......or phone somebody that's built saw pipes......Hahahahahahaha!



I'm not totally following this? I agree with a short pipe but how is the header length alone changing the entire rev range? The belly changes the timing between the divergent and baffle cones and the steeper the degree of the baffle makes for a faster return pulse back to the cylinder, Depending when your transfers close, this is what I'm trying to time and there will be a couple different baffle cones to swap and see? I'd much rather change the baffle and belly dimensions then have to mess with the header after the fact. Doesn't this accomplish the same thing?


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## tdi-rick (May 23, 2012)

Frank, adding/subtracting length from between the header and first (divergent) cone moves the powerband up/down the range.

The shorter that length, the further up the rev range you're moving peak power.

This is how we tuned kart pipes from track to track, usually in 10mm increments, but sometimes 5mm. (kart pipes have a slip joint there for adjustment and use springs for retention)

Simple, easy and effective.


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 23, 2012)

gink595 said:


> Actually we have one at work, one of these days I'm going to put into the nesting program and see how it does. The thinnest we do out there is .060 and it doesn't do a great job due to the speed they run it at.



The CNC plasma software I run has a nesting function. I don't us it. I find I can put the pieces in better than the software. There is probably a setting or two I need to learn.

The plasma cutter I use I have cut down to 18g. It has tips of 20 amp up to 100 amp. 100 amp will cut .750 steel. What gauge of steel is this pipe?

What speed do they run the plasma cutter? (inches per minute?) What amperage tips do they use?

Accuracy is +/- ~ .020 or better. The majority of the parts I cut are measured with a tap measure. The parts measure up after cutting. It does cut with a tapper in the kerf which gets greater as the material gets thicker.





> Thanks Nik! I agree after spending years as a Structural detailer(draftsman) I've learned to slow down and take the time to draw it out. Sure saves alot of time in the long run, plus after 10 years with Acad I've become efficient at it! :hmm3grin2orange:




Nik

I know ACad, Solidworks and ProE (wildfire). It's been a few years since I've used ProE and ACad. After drawing in the CAD package for the CNC for the last 5 years, I've found I need to relearn ACad.


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

tdi-rick said:


> Frank, adding/subtracting length from between the header and first (divergent) cone moves the powerband up/down the range.
> 
> The shorter that length, the further up the rev range you're moving peak power.
> 
> ...



Yeah I thought about that more last night. I couldn't see how it made that much difference in the Powerband at first but you are correct it would change the timing between those 2 points. I have some adjustment in the block if needed, I could add or mill some off the back side. I sure hate to have to start cutting on that header, would be so bad if it weren't a taper. We'll have to see where it runs at once it is ported.


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## Tzed250 (May 23, 2012)

The divergent cone starts the pull that when timed right reaches all the way into the crankcase to pull the mixture into the cylinder. A shallow angle will provide a more forgiving power spread. The steep angle will make more max power. The convergent cone is the supercharger. Timed correctly it stuffs the unburned mixture back through the ex. port, with the piston slamming the door shut just as velocity drops to zero. Easy! Right?


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## nmurph (May 23, 2012)

Lots of good info in this thread. Some of it even makes sense to a peon like me!! 

Carry on, men.


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## blsnelling (May 23, 2012)

Wow, some good stuff since last night! Gink, you're taking this one over the top! I had no idea you'd be pulling all of these tricks out of your hat when you offered to so this for me. I'm in awe of your ingenuity.


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## atlarge54 (May 23, 2012)

What a BUM 14hr days and then build pipes for Buckeyes!!!!!!

I'm happy if my saws start easy and run OK-----just keeping the chain sharp is a chore. I hate to bother you cause you're a busy guy but I love to look at your collection of "toys" every once in a while.

Maybe we need to have a Gink needs a bigger building GTG?


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

atlarge54 said:


> What a BUM 14hr days and then build pipes for Buckeyes!!!!!!
> 
> I'm happy if my saws start easy and run OK-----just keeping the chain sharp is a chore. I hate to bother you cause you're a busy guy but I love to look at your collection of "toys" every once in a while.
> 
> Maybe we need to have a Gink needs a bigger building GTG?



Yeah that brings up a good question Kirk, an important question:

*Brad are you a Buckeye Fan?*


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## Tzed250 (May 23, 2012)

BTW Frank, a set of one off chambers for a 250GP bike are as much as $4000. Price your work accordingly. Hahahahahahaha!


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## blsnelling (May 23, 2012)

gink595 said:


> Yeah that brings up a good question Kirk, an important question:
> 
> *Brad are you a Buckeye Fan?*



*Absolutely not!!!!!!! * Lol


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> *Absolutely not!!!!!!! * Lol



Ok Good! Back to work!


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

atlarge54 said:


> What a BUM 14hr days and then build pipes for Buckeyes!!!!!!
> 
> I'm happy if my saws start easy and run OK-----just keeping the chain sharp is a chore. I hate to bother you cause you're a busy guy but I love to look at your collection of "toys" every once in a while.
> 
> Maybe we need to have a Gink needs a bigger building GTG?



Feel free to stop out anytime! I'm usually out there after 5:30!


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> BTW Frank, a set of one off chambers for a 250GP bike are as much as $4000. Price your work accordingly. Hahahahahahaha!



Yeah those are pretty sweet looking pipes too! I think the first time I seen Kenny Roberts Jr. Suzuki 500 GP bike up close at a bike show I knew I wanted to try and build a pipe sometime. It was wild looking and beautifully hand crafted titanium.


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## procarbine2k1 (May 23, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> *Absolutely not!!!!!!! * Lol



I hope you change your answer after you get your pipe back!!


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## Metals406 (May 23, 2012)

Good thread Frank!

It's funny, a lot of non-fabbers look at stuff and go, "I could do that in a couple hours" -- but they never do! LOL

Great work as always brother.


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## blsnelling (May 23, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> I hope you change your answer after you get your pipe back!!



Actually, I'm not a sports fan at all.


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## stinkbait (May 23, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Actually, I'm not a sports fan at all.



If you are like me, you don't have time to be a sports fan.


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## Dennis Cahoon (May 23, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I'm not totally following this? I agree with a short pipe but how is the header length alone changing the entire rev range? The belly changes the timing between the divergent and baffle cones and the steeper the degree of the baffle makes for a faster return pulse back to the cylinder, Depending when your transfers close, this is what I'm trying to time and there will be a couple different baffle cones to swap and see? I'd much rather change the baffle and belly dimensions then have to mess with the header after the fact. Doesn't this accomplish the same thing?




Don't worry Gink!......It's only a boy toy for Brad and he doesn't know the differance between loud noise and performance anyway. I'm just hoping you told Brad you'd only build this by the hour........Hahahahahahaha!


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## Tzed250 (May 23, 2012)

It's ok to be a fan of this sport:

http://www.woodchoppingfestival.com/


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Don't worry Gink!......It's only a boy toy for Brad and he doesn't know the differance between loud noise and performance anyway. I'm just hoping you told Brad you'd only build this by the hour........Hahahahahahaha!



No worries Dennis! If I can get the hang of detailing stuff like this I'm sure I can figure the math sooner or later:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Dennis Cahoon (May 23, 2012)

gink595 said:


> The dimensions of the pipe were copied from a previous pipe that worked well. I did however redo the pipe and I figured for the math at 12,000 rpm.



Gink!....According to this statement you changed your baseline before you even started. If the pipe worked well, why didn't you start out with those dimentions for a baseline. You are in nowhere land now, and won't know if yours is better or not......and the Black Art hasn't even started......Hahahahahaha!


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Gink!....According to this statement you changed your baseline before you even started. If the pipe worked well, why didn't you start out with those dimentions for a baseline. You are in nowhere land now, and won't know if yours is better or not......and the Black Art hasn't even started......Hahahahahaha!



The previous pipe was for a 066, similair in displacement. The only thing I changed was the header diameter based onthe port area of the of exhaust and 12,000 rpm. I aldo made it a tapered header where the 066 was a straight header. The overall length has stayed the same. I ran the numbers on the rest of the pipe by hand and who ever made the origianl pipe did a good job because I found alot of the dimension and degree of taper to match with the text book formulas. I believe Big Dave Neiger built the 66 pipe.


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

Here is a side by side of the two...


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## nmurph (May 23, 2012)

gink595 said:


>



When will my shop be ready??? I like the grain bins you added out back. I can store plenty of corn for my E distillery.


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## Dennis Cahoon (May 23, 2012)

gink595 said:


> The previous pipe was for a 066, similair in displacement. The only thing I changed was the header diameter based onthe port area of the of exhaust and 12,000 rpm. I aldo made it a tapered header where the 066 was a straight header. The overall length has stayed the same. I ran the numbers on the rest of the pipe by hand and who ever made the origianl pipe did a good job because I found alot of the dimension and degree of taper to match with the text book formulas. I believe Big Dave Neiger built the 66 pipe.



OK, a 66 pipe, that makes more sense. Yes, a tapered header is good. Straight header is old school.

Here's some nice tapered header work.....not my work.....before you get your panties ruffled.


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

I don't wear panties! It Free ball or go home 


Beautiful pipe though! I'm hoping to make something like that for the 250 saw.


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 23, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> The CNC plasma software I run has a nesting function. I don't us it. I find I can put the pieces in better than the software. There is probably a setting or two I need to learn.
> 
> The plasma cutter I use I have cut down to 18g. It has tips of 20 amp up to 100 amp. 100 amp will cut .750 steel. What gauge of steel is this pipe?
> 
> ...



Gink

Did you miss my post about the CNC plasma cutter?


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## Trx250r180 (May 23, 2012)

back when used to race atv mx,our 250r honda pipes varried from builder to builder ,seemed like a skinnier pipe would rev out good but not make good bottom resulting in tire spin but higher hp ,and a fatter pipe would bring the power to the midrange and put the traction to the ground better ,my pipe was adjustable in the middle to adjust power points ( lrd team b brand ) ,so depending where wanted chain speed or tourque pull what better in a saw chain speed or hook up ?seems like too much speed teeth wont bite in and remove material as fast ? am thinking out loud and not a builder just trying to learn a little


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## Jacob J. (May 23, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I don't wear panties! It Free ball or go home



I was wondering what that aroma was...


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## RBurtcher (May 23, 2012)

gink595, Thanks for posting the pics of your shop and adding the story about the cutter from gramps. Great stuff. This is the type of thread I really enjoy. Getting crazy in the shop old and new school. Keep up the proggress report.


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> The CNC plasma software I run has a nesting function. I don't us it. I find I can put the pieces in better than the software. There is probably a setting or two I need to learn.
> 
> The plasma cutter I use I have cut down to 18g. It has tips of 20 amp up to 100 amp. 100 amp will cut .750 steel. What gauge of steel is this pipe?
> 
> ...



I did miss this post!

We use a program called Pro-Nest utilize all the coil width space to cut all of our web material and some special parts. Typical range is .130" to 1/2". Not sure at what amps or speeds the guys run it at but you know it is fast when you look at the government job project you had them cut out and the kerf is at a 45* angle! I would like to see how well it would do but I know when they make the finger shims out of .060 material they look awful. There is a local laser shop I'd like to see if the rate is reasonable for peice jobs. It wouldn't bother me if all I had to do was send them a dwg. file with all the patterns to burn out. The pipe material is 22 gage.


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> I was wondering what that aroma was...



It wouldn't matter if underware was involved or not! :msp_biggrin:


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## Dennis Cahoon (May 23, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> back when used to race atv mx,our 250r honda pipes varried from builder to builder ,seemed like a skinnier pipe would rev out good but not make good bottom resulting in tire spin but higher hp ,and a fatter pipe would bring the power to the midrange and put the traction to the ground better ,my pipe was adjustable in the middle to adjust power points ( lrd team b brand ) ,so depending where wanted chain speed or tourque pull what better in a saw chain speed or hook up ?seems like too much speed teeth wont bite in and remove material as fast ? am thinking out loud and not a builder just trying to learn a little



Rules of thumb for pipes!.......Longer narrower pipes are torque pipes(mid-range). Shorter fatter pipes are designed for (top end).


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## Tzed250 (May 23, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I did miss this post!
> 
> We use a program called Pro-Nest utilize all the coil width space to cut all of our web material and some special parts. Typical range is .130" to 1/2". Not sure at what amps or speeds the guys run it at but you know it is fast when you look at the government job project you had them cut out and the kerf is at a 45* angle! I would like to see how well it would do but I know when they make the finger shims out of .060 material they look awful. There is a local laser shop I'd like to see if the rate is reasonable for peice jobs. It wouldn't bother me if all I had to do was send them a dwg. file with all the patterns to burn out. The pipe material is 22 gage.





I have cut .125 304 stainless on an Amada laser. +/-.005 was easy to hold. Amazing machine.


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## Trx250r180 (May 23, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Rules of thumb for pipes!.......Longer narrower pipes are torque pipes(mid-range). Shorter fatter pipes are designed for (top end).



i was backwords on my thinking ,thanks for the input


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## Dennis Cahoon (May 23, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I don't wear panties! It Free ball or go home
> 
> 
> Beautiful pipe though! I'm hoping to make something like that for the 250 saw.



Here's my 250 pipe set-up. Works great!.....and I did build all of that one.......Hahahahahahaha!


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## HELSEL (May 23, 2012)

Everyone is talking about the power band!!!
Why?? When you have a piped saw you don't 
have to worry about the mid range!! It is not
like a bike or a cart where you are letting off
the throttle for a corner then have to accelerate 
back to the high RPM! The saw is running wide 
open when it hits the wood and stays there until 
you are finished. They have to accelerate to the
high RPMs but that reflects to the porting.


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## 3000 FPS (May 23, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> OK, a 66 pipe, that makes more sense. Yes, a tapered header is good. Straight header is old school.
> 
> Here's some nice tapered header work.....not my work.....before you get your panties ruffled.



Man that thing looks huge.


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 23, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I did miss this post!
> 
> We use a program called Pro-Nest utilize all the coil width space to cut all of our web material and some special parts. Typical range is .130" to 1/2". Not sure at what amps or speeds the guys run it at but you know it is fast when you look at the government job project you had them cut out and the kerf is at a 45* angle! I would like to see how well it would do but I know when they make the finger shims out of .060 material they look awful. There is a local laser shop I'd like to see if the rate is reasonable for piece jobs. It wouldn't bother me if all I had to do was send them a dwg. file with all the patterns to burn out. The pipe material is 22 gage.




They probably can cut smaller stuff if it only goes up to 1/2".

Angled kerfs is typically old or damaged tips or electrodes. If the tip hits the material the tip can smear and partially plug the hole causing the angled flame. The quality of the cut depends on a few things. Clean air is a must. Less slag and cleaner cut. Consumables that aren't worn out. The correct tip size to thickness of material. Tip height to material and speed of the head. These all depend on the skill and experience of the operator. I have 5+ years experience running this machine (part time as needed). I'm self taught (help files, phone support and trial/error) There are speed tests that can be ran to get the cleanest cut. They're probably not doing all that they can do to get a clean cut.

I import DXF files. It would be nice if you could use a local shop that doesn't need an arm and a leg for the use of their machine. I don't deal with the $$ side of the operation so I don't know what the shop charges. I do know I could use a little more!

22 gauge = .0299 or .030 which should form fairly easy. Right?

Are you using the sheet metal feature in ACad? Does it give you a flat pattern? If you are I'd like to know more.


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

nmurph said:


> When will my shop be ready??? I like the grain bins you added out back. I can store plenty of corn for my E distillery.



Let me know what you want! it should be about a 6-8 week delivery from order! Hurry though as the backlog tons are filling up fast, going to be a busy summer/fall!

That was a big corn storage facility in Illinois, I visited that jobsite during the last phases being erected and the completed phases had corn mounded to the ridge! I forget the millions of bushels it would hold but it was astroniomical. I had close to 300 hours detailing every aspect of that job.


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> I have cut .125 304 stainless on an Amada laser. +/-.005 was easy to hold. Amazing machine.



You want to cut some pipe patterns for me!!


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> They probably can cut smaller stuff if it only goes up to 1/2".
> 
> Angled kerfs is typically old or damaged tips or electrodes. If the tip hits the material the tip can smear and partially plug the hole causing the angled flame. The quality of the cut depends on a few things. Clean air is a must. Less slag and cleaner cut. Consumables that aren't worn out. The correct tip size to thickness of material. Tip height to material and speed of the head. These all depend on the skill and experience of the operator. I have 5+ years experience running this machine (part time as needed). I'm self taught (help files, phone support and trial/error) There are speed tests that can be ran to get the cleanest cut. They're probably not doing all that they can do to get a clean cut.
> 
> ...




It will cut thicker material but we don't typically get into webs that thick so there isn't a need for it to cut that thick. I have no doubt that the consumables are shot! We run both of those tables non-stop 5-6 days a week on three shifts. It helps produce 50-55,000 tons of structural steel. If that plas table goes down the whole structural side comes to a halt! You have different operators running it with one thing in mind...get tons out the door. They work on a man hour per ton bonus, it can get quite competitive on the floor. I used to work out there as a welder and Fitter and it was balls to the wall all night long, made good money though!

I use a cone program that you input the two diameters and the desired angle at each end and creates the flat patterns as you type, it is a amazing program!


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## barneyrb (May 23, 2012)

Has anyone ever had a pipe "jet hot" coated? The reason I ask is I had a set done for a 66 cuda one time and the guy is still running them 15 years later with no rust. They were a "rare" set because they were chassis exit instead of typical fender well exit for an early A body with a V-8. As a plus the finish looked great sorta a brushed nickel.


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## gink595 (May 23, 2012)

Not much progress tonight, wasn't in the mood to work! I did finish milling the exhaust block. I also cut one of the belly pieces, anyone know how to sharpen a parting bit...Grrrr!!!! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## blsnelling (May 23, 2012)

Looks absolutely fantastic, Gink!


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## Tzed250 (May 23, 2012)

gink595 said:


> Not much progress tonight, wasn't in the mood to work! I did finish milling the exhaust block. I also cut one of the belly pieces, anyone know how to sharpen a parting bit...Grrrr!!!! :hmm3grin2orange:



Yep. Slight positive rake, relief on the tool nose and both sides, and make darn sure the tool is dead on machine center when you set it.


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## gink595 (May 27, 2012)

Worked a little late tonight. Nice and cool and no one awake to screw with me

Had to build a strut to secure the header.


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## Stihl 041S (May 27, 2012)

Nice work. Continue on.


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## atvhead (May 27, 2012)

next one you do send me the acad file and i will 3D model it for you! I could draw up a mock chainsaw too with the critical outside dimensions and we could check overall fit too! see the whole thing is 3D before you cut metal!!


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## Rudolf73 (May 27, 2012)

atvhead said:


> next one you do send me the acad file and i will 3D model it for you! I could draw up a mock chainsaw too with the critical outside dimensions and we could check overall fit too! see the whole thing is 3D before you cut metal!!



What software are you using?


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## atvhead (May 27, 2012)

Inventor 2010 + solidworks right now, in process of upgrading to 2012.

i am not really a huge fan of inventor. i have also used solidworks, ProE and Ideas V11. I think Ideas has been my favorite so far but maybe that was just because it had fluid and thermo dynamics and FEA.


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## Tzed250 (May 27, 2012)

gink595 said:


> You want to cut some pipe patterns for me!!




That could happen


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## blsnelling (May 27, 2012)

Wow, you did work late! Lookin' good.


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## Tzed250 (May 27, 2012)

I know a guy, coughginkcough, that needs to clean out his PM box....


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## parrisw (May 27, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> That could happen



Might as well cut out a couple sets if us know what I mean.:biggrin:


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## gink595 (May 27, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> I know a guy, coughginkcough, that needs to clean out his PM box....



:hmm3grin2orange:

Done!


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## Logger4Life (May 27, 2012)

Well what are you waiting let's see her rip!!!


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## pbtree (May 27, 2012)

com on man - us 390 fans are itching to see this thing run!


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## splitpost (May 27, 2012)

nice work,a vid will expected when your done


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## Tzed250 (May 27, 2012)

BTW, coupla pipe saws can be seen here;

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/201114.htm


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## gink595 (May 28, 2012)

Got more done, been real hot the past couple days. I was drenched by the time I finished welding the header pipe yesterday. I had to remake one of the cones, I didn't like the way it fit up so I re-did it. My patience was wearing thin last night so I walked away. Now I have a horrible sinus headache and I feel like poo. Called it a day a bit ago...







Purging the pipe did make for a nice weld inside the pipe. Looks really smooth. I didn't notice much difference from the welding side though.


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## blsnelling (May 28, 2012)

I'm starting to get giddy, lol.


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## gink595 (May 28, 2012)

I'm making this a spring mounted header. I took a couple 1/4-20 bolts and milled a flat surface and drilled a hole for one end.I have to find some stiff Stainless wire to make the other end that attaches to the pipe.






I also added another strut for the other side, this way guarentees the pipe to stay put in the aluminum block.


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## blsnelling (May 28, 2012)

I'm guessing the spring mount would greatly reduce problems with cracking at the flange?


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## gink595 (May 28, 2012)

Been playing around with the height of it. I think I've looked at this thing so much at this point I'm not sure where to put it!

Here is a picture of the high mount.











Low mount.







Here is the adjustable belly section.


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## blsnelling (May 28, 2012)

I think I'm liking the lower mount better. Any drawbacks to either?


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## gink595 (May 28, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I think I'm liking the lower mount better. Any drawbacks to either?



No not really, it may be a little harder to get the clutch cover off. The pipe should be easy to take off so it wouldn't be that bad to swap B&C.


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## blsnelling (May 28, 2012)

Let's go low then.


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## gink595 (May 28, 2012)

Good that was the answer I was looking... Now I have a direction to go :hmm3grin2orange:

I have to lay out a pattern in AutoCad for the Baffle cone, I'm going to put a slight curve in it to direct the stinger away from the operator. Might consist of 4-5 mini cones at the tip. I'll know once I get to drawing it up tomorrow at work. Looks like all I need is the springs and mounts on the pipe and maybe a rear support and we'll be good!


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## blsnelling (May 28, 2012)

gink595 said:


> Good that was the answer I was looking... Now I have a direction to go :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> I have to lay out a pattern in AutoCad for the Baffle cone, I'm going to put a slight curve in it to direct the stinger away from the operator. Might consist of 4-5 mini cones at the tip. I'll know once I get to drawing it up tomorrow at work. Looks like all I need is the springs and mounts on the pipe and maybe a rear support and we'll be good!



I like the sound of that


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## procarbine2k1 (May 28, 2012)

Looking good! Is that pipe getting plated, painted, or as-is natural beauty?


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## leeha (May 28, 2012)

Nice work. Looks awsome. A talent i know
nothing about. I may have to study up on
the art of pipe building.




Lee


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## blsnelling (May 28, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> Looking good! Is that pipe getting plated, painted, or as-is natural beauty?



The plan is to plate it.


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## Tzed250 (May 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The plan is to plate it.



Plating is good for corrosion protection, but plating can cause hydrogen embrittlement which will lead to the pipe cracking. This is the reason that you won't see a plated pipe on any factory racing machines.


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## Stihl 041S (May 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The plan is to plate it.



No go B Rad. Told you before. Titanium for pretty. Been that way for 47 years that I know of.


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## tdi-rick (May 29, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> No go B Rad. Told you before. Titanium for pretty. Been that way for 47 years that I know of.



Or Inconel, if you can find someone to fabricate it (Big $$$$$$$$)


HPC/Jet Hot/Swaintech coatings on mild steel seems to work well.


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## Stihl 041S (May 29, 2012)

tdi-rick said:


> Or Inconel, if you can find someone to fabricate it (Big $$$$$$$$)
> 
> 
> HPC/Jet Hot/Swaintech coatings on mild steel seems to work well.



Inconel is SOOOOO heavy!!!
And titanium has a wonderful ring and cools so quickley. 
LOL


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## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Inconel is SOOOOO heavy!!!
> And titanium has a wonderful ring and cools so quickley.
> LOL



Heat is not a bad thing in pipes


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## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

Here is what I'm thinking for the baffle cone to direct the noise and stinger away from the operator (Brad).


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## blsnelling (May 29, 2012)

I don't know that it would be necessary to kick it out like that. It's already on the right side of the saw. I would think just a slight angle would do it. I've never run a right side pipe saw though.


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## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I don't know that it would be necessary to kick it out like that. It's already on the right side of the saw. I would think just a slight angle would do it. I've never run a right side pipe saw though.



Well...it hugs that rt. side pretty good I think the stinger will be closer than what you think. I'll do what ever you want me too, just let me know!


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## blsnelling (May 29, 2012)

Any of you guys run a right side pipe? What would be best?


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## FATGUY (May 29, 2012)

I would think the farther away from the operator, the better. I know at least one of your friends that's pretty fat and doesn't want to get stung by the stinger....:hmm3grin2orange:


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## blsnelling (May 29, 2012)

I'm just thinking that I don't want to kick it out any more than necessary, to keep it as compact as possible.


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## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'm just thinking that I don't want to kick it out any more than necessary, to keep it as compact as possible.



I'll revise the drawing to a more conservative angle. I personally wouldn't want the stinger to be that close to me. You'll have to adjust the length of the stinger so it amy not be an issue.


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## Metals406 (May 29, 2012)

Why not spray the pipe with a nice ceramic?? They're available in lots of colors, like black and white.


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## Trx250r180 (May 29, 2012)

if you hug the pipe closer to the saw ,will heat be an issue by your right hand ?


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## blsnelling (May 29, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> if you hug the pipe closer to the saw ,will heat be an issue by your right hand ?



It won't be run long enough for that to be an issue.


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## blsnelling (May 29, 2012)

This pic helps me put it in perspective. I wouldn't think you'd need any more angle than this.


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## Dennis Cahoon (May 29, 2012)

Too much angle of the stringer out the right will cause a "powerful" saw to torque slightly sideways when revved. To much twisting of the saw can cause crooked cuts. You want it to torque upward.


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 29, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Too much angle of the stringer out the right will cause a "powerful" saw to torque slightly sideways when revved. To much twisting of the saw can cause crooked cuts. You want it to torque upward.



Are you talking about a 'jet' affect? The force of the exhaust coming out of the pipe? Or something totally different?


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## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

How's this Brad?

BTW...I almost had to go to Millwaukee for the rest of the week for work! I got out of it for the time being!


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## blsnelling (May 29, 2012)

That looks good to me, but I'll leave the final call to your judgment.


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## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> That looks good to me, but I'll leave the final call to your judgment.



I'll get it mocked up in sheetmetal tonight and shoot you a pic to see if you like it or not. I'll make both patterns so if you want it to run straight back then I'm not sitting there with no pattern to make it from.


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## blsnelling (May 29, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I'll get it mocked up in sheetmetal tonight and shoot you a pic to see if you like it or not. I'll make both patterns so if you want it to run straight back then I'm not sitting there with no pattern to make it from.



I'm sure that I don't want any less angle than the last drawing. I definitely want some angle. If you feel like that's not enough to clear my arm, then I trust your decision to go more. I'm not concerned about sound. I will always have my ear protection.


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (May 29, 2012)

I liked this right side pipe. No issues I could find for only 3 cuts at a time. :msp_tongue:


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (May 29, 2012)

Some dang nice work Frank. :msp_thumbsup:


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## Dennis Cahoon (May 29, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Are you talking about a 'jet' affect? The force of the exhaust coming out of the pipe? Or something totally different?



Yes, the force of the exhaust......but Brad shouldn't have to worry much with that saw......Hahahahahaha!


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## Chopwood (May 29, 2012)

I have run a lot of race saws. My suggestion is straight back and the belly of the pipe in the high position you showed. You want to have the pipe tight in and straight. The "jet effect" is real. Don't worry about heat, if you get it that hot, a burned hand is the least of your worries.


----------



## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

Got it all welded tonight, just got to weld the struts on and the spring mounts to the header pipe. I have to make a clamp for the adjustable belly and then it is back to Brad!


----------



## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

Here is the inside of the purged weld. Looks really nice.







Well another productive long day and I really feel like doing this.


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## blsnelling (May 29, 2012)

Looks fantastic!


----------



## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

Here is some different views.


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## blsnelling (May 29, 2012)

Can't wait to hear that thing scream like a RM/CR/YZ125


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## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

Your poor neighbors! :hmm3grin2orange:

I left that stinger a bit long so you can play with the length of it.


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## Dennis Cahoon (May 29, 2012)

Looks good Gink!.....Classic workmanship......To bad it wasn't a real racesaw!


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## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Looks good Gink!.....Classic workmanship......To bad it wasn't a real racesaw!



Thanks Dennis, my old man used to have a saying "The cleaner it looks, the longer it took" that is the case here! I told Brad tonight the more machinery I get to make stuff the longer my projects take to complete. As far as a real race saw...I guess that is in Brads Court on what he wants out of the saw, as long as he is happy with the job I done...I'm happy!


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## Tzed250 (May 29, 2012)

Damn fine work Frank.


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## gink595 (May 29, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Damn fine work Frank.



Everyone I've done thus far has been better than the previous!


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 29, 2012)

How would a 'rotisserie' with variable speed work for welding something like a pipe?


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## Dennis Cahoon (May 30, 2012)

gink595 said:


> Everyone I've done thus far has been better than the previous!



Hope you got $400 for it Gink!....if not, Brad got too ya!!!


----------



## husq2100 (May 30, 2012)

some people cut 4 fun, some people work for fun...............


----------



## Officer's Match (May 30, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Can't wait to hear that thing scream like a RM/CR/YZ125



Seems to me the fella's at Pro Circuit used to get the green one's running pretty good too.


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## blsnelling (May 30, 2012)

officer's match said:


> seems to me the fella's at pro circuit used to get the green one's running pretty good too.



kx?


----------



## Officer's Match (May 30, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> kx?



Yup, my first real race bike was a KX80. Dad couldn't believe I could wax his 175 enduro - with ease I might add.


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## gink595 (May 30, 2012)

Well Brad it has been a fun project and glad I did it, now it's your turn!

BTW, with every pipe I do I send out a free kitten.


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## atlarge54 (May 30, 2012)

Don't you think you ought to run a little mix through it to check for leaks? I'd sure like to hear that thing run------Brad probably wouldn't care would he?


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## tlandrum (May 30, 2012)

now brad get over to the charity thread and bid on a chain for that saw. all the pipes and port work in the world wont do squat without a good chain.


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## gink595 (May 30, 2012)

atlarge54 said:


> Don't you think you ought to run a little mix through it to check for leaks? I'd sure like to hear that thing run------Brad probably wouldn't care would he?



I told Brad tonight, there was no way I was running it, it would seize up and then be my baby! :hmm3grin2orange: I got a 066 pipe to build similiar to this one so maybe once I get it done you can come over and run my saw with it on there!


----------



## blsnelling (May 30, 2012)

What can I say Frank? Thanks just doesn't get it done. You've made a labor of love out of this, and it shows! It looks incredible. Your craftsmanship is impeccable.

Now, here's the hillarious part. Frank's shipping the saw back to me tomorrow, meaning I'll get it Friday. That gives me Friday evening to port it and get it running for the GTG on Saturday, lol:msp_w00t::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling (May 30, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> now brad get over to the charity thread and bid on a chain for that saw. all the pipes and port work in the world wont do squat without a good chain.



Frank done took all my money! JK:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (May 30, 2012)

A quick over night port and sand job sounds good enough Brad!......Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## blsnelling (May 31, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> A quick over night port and sand job sounds good enough Brad!......Hahahahahahaha!



It's not my fault that you're old and slow! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## komatsuvarna (May 31, 2012)

gink595 said:


>



Whats that thing do Gink?


----------



## blsnelling (May 31, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> Whats that thing do Gink?



The chamber of the pipe is adjustable in length. That clamp locks it in place.


----------



## blsnelling (May 31, 2012)

We actually have a long ways to go on this. A lot of time well be spent fine tuning the chamber length, header length, stinger length, and ignition timing.


----------



## Trx250r180 (May 31, 2012)

that came out very nice ,you have some real talent with metal


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (May 31, 2012)

Brad, what size is your stinger ID?.......Maybe it's the picture, but it looks to big for that size pipe.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (May 31, 2012)

Gink!......How much total time did it take you to make the pipe?


----------



## gink595 (May 31, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Brad, what size is your stinger ID?.......Maybe it's the picture, but it looks to big for that size pipe.



Believe it is 7/8"



Dennis Cahoon said:


> Gink!......How much total time did it take you to make the pipe?



Quality and Pride take time! Lots of it!


----------



## Trx250r180 (May 31, 2012)

is this saw gonna have dogs or a nerf bar so if the chain hooks up wont suck that pretty pipe into the log and dent it ?


----------



## RBurtcher (May 31, 2012)

*The pipe came out really nice.*

Thank you for taking the time. I dig looking through the pics with the descriptions. I know That in itself is a lot of work. You have alot of cool equiptment, while alot of us have nice stuff at work it is nopt the same as being able to go out late at night etc and just firing up any given piece of equiptment and using it at your leisure. 

One of the main things I do at work is sharpen every type of punch, die block, shear, cut-off, slitter etc. used in producing cooling cores from raw materials. I was wondering if you had ever sharpened the cutting wheels on that sweet little sheet metal cutter your gramps left you or if they were still sharp as razors after all this time.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (May 31, 2012)

gink595 said:


> BTW, with every pipe I do *I send out a free kitten.*



:hmm3grin2orange: The gift that keeps on giving. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## gink595 (May 31, 2012)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> :hmm3grin2orange: The gift that keeps on giving. :hmm3grin2orange:



Absolutley, infact I will extend that offer to any of you even if you never want a pipe I can send some to brad to take to the GTG or mail diret UPS ground!


----------



## blsnelling (May 31, 2012)

Anna, my 13 year old, saw that and wants one. But Daddy says no, lol.


----------



## blsnelling (May 31, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Plating is good for corrosion protection, but plating can cause hydrogen embrittlement which will lead to the pipe cracking. This is the reason that you won't see a plated pipe on any factory racing machines.



How do MX bike and quad pipe manufacturers get away with it? Do they use a special process?


----------



## Trx250r180 (May 31, 2012)

our aftermarket swingarms seemed to crack easier when chromed vs a powdercoated one ,a pipe doesnt take that much abuse ,i ran chromed ones and held up for many seasons ,the one of the racers that worked for the aftermarket company told me theres a chemical in the chrome dipping that will weaken the metal some ,i wouldnt worry about it on a pipe


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (May 31, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Anna, my 13 year old, saw that and wants one. But Daddy says no, lol.



Booo Hissssss  look what you and the kid could be missing. :msp_thumbsup:

[video=youtube_share;go43XeW6Wg4]http://youtu.be/go43XeW6Wg4[/video]


----------



## blsnelling (May 31, 2012)

We already have an indoor cat and dog!


----------



## Tzed250 (May 31, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> How do MX bike and quad pipe manufacturers get away with it? Do they use a special process?



They are nickel plated. I had a nickel Pro-Circuit on my YZ250(came with the bike), it cracked after 4 months. I would never pay for a plated pipe. You wont see one on a real racebike. Why cover up that beautiful work?


----------



## tdi-rick (May 31, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> They are nickel plated. I had a nickel Pro-Circuit on my YZ250(came with the bike), it cracked after 4 months. I would never pay for a plated pipe. You wont see one on a real racebike. Why cover up that beautiful work?



You are less likely to get hydrogen embrittlement with nickel plating vs almost guaranteed with chrome, and at least you can weld through the nickel for repairs, unlike chrome.

We used to get race car wishbones and rockers nickel plated if the owner wanted a bright finish, or phosphated for a matt finish (which is more reliable) as we were only used mild steel, not 4130 (wishbones are a disposable item on a Formula Ford) and they weren't subject to the extreme temperature cycles a pipe is.

Back in the '90's Penkse had bright wishbones on their Champcars and it intrigued me as I knew damned well they wouldn't plate due to hydrogen embrittlement.

I found out they were _polished_ 4130.

[edit] and we never plated pipes, they cracked often enough over a season as it was.


----------



## atlarge54 (May 31, 2012)

If the numbers on this lottery ticket work properly I'd like to order one in aluminum. Don't want to throw off the sideways balance.


----------



## Tzed250 (May 31, 2012)

I used to fix MX pipes quite a bit. For dents, 60psi in the pipe and some heat on the dent. For cracks it was brazing.


----------



## tdi-rick (May 31, 2012)

atlarge54 said:


> If the numbers on this lottery ticket work properly I'd like to order one in aluminum. Don't want to throw off the sideways balance.



All jokes aside, I had a muffler made entirely of aluminium once, not just an aluminium can on a steel body (I was the ultimate weight weenie as I raced against jockeys and I'm 6'1.75", I had to claw something back )

It survived a couple of races until I put an engine on the dyno, then it melted


----------



## Adirondackstihl (May 31, 2012)

Anyone else here ever own a DynoPort pipe on their MX bike? 
Had a Mid-Top on a 94' RM 125....YEARS ago.... Great craftsmanship.
Made right here in NY

Anyway....Brad...you could always have that pipe ceramic coated. Cermachrome....looks just like chrome or nickel plating.

I'd much rather see the workmanship though. I like the progressive coloring in the heat transfer....especially the blues and purples typical on stainless


----------



## Tzed250 (May 31, 2012)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Anyone else here ever own a DynoPort pipe on their MX bike?
> Had a Mid-Top on a 94' RM 125....YEARS ago.... Great craftsmanship.
> Made right here in NY
> 
> ...



No Dyno-Port, but I wanted one. I did run Spec IIs on my RZ350s. Gary Shumake hand made them from cones. Great looking, great sound, and gave the RZ about 20 percent more power. Guys with 550s would say WTF when I went by them


----------



## Adirondackstihl (May 31, 2012)

The guy @ DynoPort also does ceramic coating....
Mad Scientist Header Coating Ceramic Coating Specialists Worldwide


----------



## gink595 (May 31, 2012)

RBurtcher said:


> Thank you for taking the time. I dig looking through the pics with the descriptions. I know That in itself is a lot of work. You have alot of cool equiptment, while alot of us have nice stuff at work it is nopt the same as being able to go out late at night etc and just firing up any given piece of equiptment and using it at your leisure.
> 
> One of the main things I do at work is sharpen every type of punch, die block, shear, cut-off, slitter etc. used in producing cooling cores from raw materials. I was wondering if you had ever sharpened the cutting wheels on that sweet little sheet metal cutter your gramps left you or if they were still sharp as razors after all this time.



Thanks! You are right, there is nothing better than to have equipment to use whenever you feel like going out and doing it. I've been collecting this type of stuff for about 15 years now. I find a deal on something and I'll buy it, somewhere down the road it pays off. Next purchase is a horizontal bandsaw, I'm tired of having to use the one at work!

No I've never had to sharpen the cutter on that rotary shear, it has a serrated cutter, I'm sure that thing is from the 20-30's and has cut a ton of sheetmetal and still cuts great today.


----------



## MCW (Jun 1, 2012)

tdi-rick said:


> for a matt finish (which is more reliable).



Not sure what you're talking about Rick as I don't finish anything and am generally quite unreliable...


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 1, 2012)

West Carrollton, OH, United States 06/01/2012 7:29 A.M. Out For Delivery


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jun 1, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> West Carrollton, OH, United States 06/01/2012 7:29 A.M. Out For Delivery



What could all those extra holes in the box be for. SURPRISE


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 1, 2012)

WoooHooo! Time to get busy now. I want to hear this thing!

*Delivered On:
Friday, 06/01/2012 at 2:13 P.M.*


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 1, 2012)

Factory port timing is:

Exhaust - 95°
Transfers - 121°
Intake - 77°


----------



## stinkbait (Jun 1, 2012)

So are you going to port the cylinder to match the pipe gink built?


----------



## parrisw (Jun 1, 2012)

stinkbait said:


> So are you going to port the cylinder to match the pipe gink built?



I would hope so.


----------



## Zombiechopper (Jun 1, 2012)

is this going to run gasoline?


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 1, 2012)

stinkbait said:


> So are you going to port the cylinder to match the pipe gink built?


The port timing was decided before the pipe was built.



Zombiechopper said:


> is this going to run gasoline?


Yes.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 1, 2012)

Here she is guys!

[video=youtube_share;3xPq-RWRTUM]http://youtu.be/3xPq-RWRTUM[/video]


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 1, 2012)

All port timing numbers are spot on what I was shooting for. Compression is exactly where we wanted it, right at 180 PSI. I suspect there's a fair amount more to be found in tweaking the pipe, but I think we've got a good start here.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 1, 2012)

Yes, I know Dennis, it's slow:msp_tongue:


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Jun 1, 2012)

Hahahahahaha!.......better go back in and raiser up Brad!


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 1, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Hahahahahaha!.......better go back in and raiser up Brad!



That's easy enough to do. At least it's running for tomorrow. How high do you like to take the exhaust on a gas pipe saw?


----------



## jropo (Jun 1, 2012)

Saw sounds nice. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 1, 2012)

This is the first saw I've ever built for a pipe. It's a whole new ball of wax for me. Frankly, I couldn't have done this without help. Much thanks goes to Frank and Eric.

There's a lot of fine tuning left to be done to this thing. We'll probably spend a day playing with the length of the belly, stinger length, possibly the header length. I've yet to do anything with ignition timing. Even the porting could get some tweaking. However, I think we're off to a good start here. I tested in the same log that I ran the ported 395XP in. However, I cut on the opposite end. I've not measured to see how close the diameter was. But, for what it's worth, the 390 is faster by more than 25%! Now that's what I'm talkin' about


----------



## Trx250r180 (Jun 2, 2012)

that pipe makes me want a 250r saw again ..........


----------



## tlandrum (Jun 2, 2012)

you need a good chain and good wood to put that saw in then youll know how much its still needing. your in the bottom end of the 6 cube class with that saw so it will need to be right if you have a hope of winning anything. ofcourse having the saw right is only half the battle. now you need to learn to cold start it and put it thru the wood smoothly. its a total package that wins races.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 2, 2012)

I have no itentions of "racing". GTG fun is the most I plan to do. 

The saw is running great, but still needs a lot of tweaking to recognize it's potential. Gink and I talked this evening and we're planning our path forward. It's not too bad for a first stab though. Today, it's single best cut time in 8x8 was 1.17 and in 10x10 was 1.92. Three cuts in 10x10 was 6.07.

[video=youtube_share;1prVCW7c4_o]http://youtu.be/1prVCW7c4_o[/video]


----------



## MCW (Jun 3, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I have no itentions of "racing". GTG fun is the most I plan to do.
> 
> The saw is running great, but still needs a lot of tweaking to recognize it's potential. Gink and I talked this evening and we're planning our path forward. It's not too bad for a first stab though. Today, it's single best cut time in 8x8 was 1.17 and in 10x10 was 1.92. Three cuts in 10x10 was 6.07.



Not knowing the first thing about racing how would those times stack up against real race saws in that wood in that class?


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 3, 2012)

MCW said:


> Not knowing the first thing about racing how would those times stack up against real race saws in that wood in that class?



My woods ported 084 cut a 4.04. Other than that, I have no idea what to compare it to. I have no idea what good cut times are.


----------



## Tzed250 (Jun 3, 2012)

Times from Webster Springs-Saturday. 

16" white pine.

10x10=100 in. sq. 

16" round= 201 in. sq. 




Tzed250 said:


> From Saturday :
> 
> Here are the hotsaw times for today.
> 1 maciel vincent 4.42
> ...


----------



## Chopwood (Jun 3, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Times from Webster Springs-Saturday.
> 
> 16" white pine.
> 
> ...



Actually, Webster wood is 12 inch Tulip (Yellow Poplar). Basically the same size as a 10x10.


----------



## Officer's Match (Jun 3, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> My woods ported 084 cut a 4.04. Other than that, I have no idea what to compare it to. I have no idea what good cut times are.



BTW, that thing sounds freeeeeeking awesome.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jun 3, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Times from Webster Springs-Saturday.
> 
> 
> 1 maciel vincent 4.42
> ...





Chopwood said:


> Actually, Webster wood is 12 inch Tulip (Yellow Poplar). Basically the same size as a 10x10.



Dont forget that webster times are cold start, saws not running on ground and hands on top of cant or rounds. So on average knock at least a second off those times to compare to a hotstart over wood time.


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Jun 3, 2012)

Frank, I know there is some tuning and experimenting left to do on the pipe- but I can definitely say first hand that the craftmanship on that pipe is absolutely top notch. Very beautiful piece of work is an understatement.


----------



## Tzed250 (Jun 3, 2012)

Chopwood said:


> Actually, Webster wood is 12 inch Tulip (Yellow Poplar). Basically the same size as a 10x10.



Your right, 12"

12"- 113 in. sq. 13% more wood.


----------



## gink595 (Jun 3, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> Frank, I know there is some tuning and experimenting left to do on the pipe- but I can definitely say first hand that the craftmanship on that pipe is absolutely top notch. Very beautiful piece of work is an understatement.



Thanks Alot! We'll get it sorted, may have to make some adjustments here and there but it sounds like we are at a good staring point. At least I made the pipe knowing I was going to make adjustments so it won't end up being a cut up piece of junk by the time it is tuned :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 3, 2012)

I brought home a full length 8x8 cant to test in. The minds are conspiring now on where we're going with this. We have some ideas on what it needs. None of it's hard to do, just takes a little time.


----------



## Tzed250 (Jun 3, 2012)

RPMSs in the cut??


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 3, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> RPMSs in the cut??



11,500


----------



## husq2100 (Jun 4, 2012)

"Times from Webster Springs-Saturday. 


1 maciel vincent 4.42
2 robert freeman4.59
3 dave engasser 4.60
4 mike eash# # # #4.62
5 jay coffman# # #4.64
6 jp mercier# # # #4.68
7 bill cogar# # # # #4.69
8 john postemski4.69
9 matt cogar# # # 4.85
10js bertrand# # # 4.91
11ken freeman# # 4.92
12matt slingerland5.04
12 mel lentz# # # # #5.04"

is #1 any relation to Marcel Vincent?


----------



## MCW (Jun 4, 2012)

husq2100 said:


> is #1 any relation to Marcel Vincent?



I'd say that he probably is. Too much of a coincidence otherwise but he's in Canada isn't he Serg?


----------



## Tzed250 (Jun 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> 11,500



What was the pipe designed for?


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jun 4, 2012)

husq2100 said:


> "Times from Webster Springs-Saturday.
> 
> 
> 1 maciel vincent 4.42
> ...





MCW said:


> I'd say that he probably is. Too much of a coincidence otherwise but he's in Canada isn't he Serg?



I had always wondered that too.


----------



## HELSEL (Jun 4, 2012)

I would say no he is not related.
I think he is from the eastern US


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 5, 2012)

I coaxed another 1,000 RPMs out of it this evening. It's now turning 12,500-12,700. I raised the exhaust a few more degrees. I also made the belly of the pipe as short as possible. If I make it longer, I loose RPMs. I'm thinking we may need to shorten it up even more. I've not yet played with the ignition timing.

[video=youtube_share;sQFQuGtzdtI]http://youtu.be/sQFQuGtzdtI[/video]


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 5, 2012)

Here's where it was before.

[video=youtube_share;f8gVEYnuEQc]http://youtu.be/f8gVEYnuEQc[/video]


----------



## Tzed250 (Jun 5, 2012)

Better. So what's the Ex. duration and compression now??


----------



## parrisw (Jun 5, 2012)

Saw sounds better Brad, but is it just me or does it look to be cutting faster in the first vid?


----------



## deye223 (Jun 6, 2012)

thouhgt i was seeing things


----------



## Roll Tide (Jun 6, 2012)

That saw was def faster in the first video , sounds better in the second video.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 6, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Saw sounds better Brad, but is it just me or does it look to be cutting faster in the first vid?



I was cutting into a knot/crotch last night. All I'm doing right now is tuning for RPMs in the cut.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 6, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Better. So what's the Ex. duration and compression now??



I'm now up to 190° exhaust duration with 36° of blowdown. Compression dropped from 180 to 165. We'll get it back.


----------



## srcarr52 (Jun 6, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'm now up to 190° exhaust duration with 36° of blowdown. Compression dropped from 180 to 165. We'll get it back.



Any plans to put more transfer timing in?

I would think your missing the majority divergence pulse with that much blowdown and not filling the pipe for the stuffing pulse but I'd have do some calculations.


----------



## gink595 (Jun 6, 2012)

The more Blowdown will allow the pulse to be that much stronger going into the pipe because the transfers opening sooner aren't bleeding the pressure off.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Jun 6, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'm now up to 190° exhaust duration with 36° of blowdown. Compression dropped from 180 to 165. We'll get it back.



Keep raising!.....and don't forget to shorten that header up too!!!!......Hahahahahahaha!

It'd also help a bunch to stick one of those HL's on there too!


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 6, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Keep raising!.....and don't forget to shorten that header up too!!!!......*Hahahahahahaha!*



The "Hahahahahahaha"s are confusing me. What do you mean by them? Are these guys on the wrong track?


----------



## gink595 (Jun 6, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> The "Hahahahahahaha"s are confusing me. What do you mean by them? Are these guys on the wrong track?



That is Dennis's way of ending every sentance! I just look at them as a exclamation points.


----------



## Showme (Jun 6, 2012)

srcarr52 said:


> Any plans to put more transfer timing in?
> 
> I would think your missing the majority divergence pulse with that much blowdown and not filling the pipe for the stuffing pulse but I'd have do some calculations.



Yea, I'd have to do some calculations also. Oh wait. I have no idea how to do that!


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 6, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Keep raising!.....and don't forget to shorten that header up too!!!!......Hahahahahahaha!
> 
> It'd also help a bunch to stick one of those HL's on there too!


I'm fearful of going through the exhaust port roof.


----------



## srcarr52 (Jun 6, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'm fearful of going through the exhaust port roof.



That's nothing a tig welder can't fix. Since your port is getting so big you can reach up in there with a normal torch and weld it back in.


----------



## srcarr52 (Jun 6, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> It'd also help a bunch to stick one of those HL's on there too!



What size? 304?


----------



## gink595 (Jun 6, 2012)

srcarr52 said:


> What size? 304?



I have a 304 on my husky 50!\


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 6, 2012)

I just bought a blueprinted EC Birt HL-360A for my Mac 101B cart saw. The v-stack is epoxied to the carb body and machined/polished to perfection.


----------



## gink595 (Jun 6, 2012)

Intake block...390?:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 6, 2012)

gink595 said:


> Intake block...390?:hmm3grin2orange:



Sure, why not:msp_w00t:


----------



## tdi-rick (Jun 6, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I just bought a blueprinted EC Birt HL-360A for my Mac 101B cart saw. The v-stack is epoxied to the carb body and machined/polished to perfection.



Ooh, the needle adjusters have gone upmarket these days. Bling.

25 years ago I would just silver solder a washer into the screw slots, worked well for a gloved hand on a kart.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 6, 2012)

Anyone know of a small digital guage that could be mounted on the saw to work with this EGT sensor, LINK.


----------



## Majorpayne (Jun 6, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Anyone know of a small digital guage that could be mounted on the saw to work with this EGT sensor, LINK.



You might find one for a tractor that would work.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 6, 2012)

How about a small hand held unit?


----------



## tdi-rick (Jun 7, 2012)

Digatron.

RPM and either EGT or CHT simultaneously.


----------



## Metals406 (Jun 7, 2012)

Isn't a buck 90 plenty high for the exhaust??

Brad, have you done anything for more transfer? Fingers?


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 7, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Isn't a buck 90 plenty high for the exhaust??
> 
> Brad, have you done anything for more transfer? Fingers?



I have not. I was hoping the quad transfers would be sufficient. If running alky, then if think they'd be required, but I'm not.


----------



## HELSEL (Jun 7, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> How about a small hand held unit?



lol


----------



## HELSEL (Jun 7, 2012)

I was just joking


----------



## parrisw (Jun 7, 2012)

HELSEL said:


> I was just joking



I thought it was funny.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 7, 2012)

Get your minds out of the gutter


----------



## gink595 (Jun 7, 2012)

HELSEL said:


> I was just joking



I just got it! Hahahahahaha


----------



## Zombiechopper (Jun 7, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Anyone know of a small digital guage that could be mounted on the saw to work with this EGT sensor, LINK.



you need that farm instrumentaion catalogue that comes in the Western producer every year. I have one in the crapper at work. I'll take a look tomorrow. Probably after lunch, maybe mid morning since I had corn for supper.


----------



## Zombiechopper (Jun 7, 2012)

Did some googling and figured it out. 

Isspro pyrometer and thermocouple kits for exhaust manifolds

Farmtronics Ltd. - Farm Electronics Online Store: Isspro Products,Isspro Pyrometers & Thermocouples

you can choose analog or digital gauges


----------



## Zombiechopper (Jun 8, 2012)

yup, just got back from the library. It was Farmtronics. Damned corn. Since I had my Gall Bladder out I've been getting lots of reading done. I should print some ipl's and put them in there. 

On a serious note, Are you going to mount the sensor near the manifold Brad? Or would it work ok in the variable chamber section? One of those gauges should mount to the handle real easy.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 8, 2012)

I'd love to find a small digital readout like my Fast Tach.


----------



## gink595 (Jun 8, 2012)

Zombiechopper said:


> yup, just got back from the library. It was Farmtronics. Damned corn.* Since I had my Gall Bladder out I've been getting lots of reading done. I should print some ipl's and put them in there. *On a serious note, Are you going to mount the sensor near the manifold Brad? Or would it work ok in the variable chamber section? One of those gauges should mount to the handle real easy.



I know the feeling man! I put a magazine rack in ours. I never realized what the gall bladder did until it was gone! My arsehole sure misses the little guy! LOL


----------



## Metals406 (Jun 8, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I have not. I was hoping the quad transfers would be sufficient. If running alky, then if think they'd be required, but I'm not.



You might consider something to give you more trans area. . . You already have a big hole for the pipe to suck through, now you need to get more charge to the hole.


----------



## Zombiechopper (Jun 8, 2012)

gink595 said:


> I know the feeling man! I put a magazine rack in ours. I never realized what the gall bladder did until it was gone! My arsehole sure misses the little guy! LOL



They did mine 3 weeks ago. Emergency surgery. There were more stones than gall bladder and it was leaking, infected and had gangrene  Didn't feel very nice so I'm glad the MFer is gone, but I need to hurry up and grow some callouses down there. 8 times a day is getting old. 



Metals406 said:


> You might consider something to give you more trans area. . . You already have a big hole for the pipe to suck through, now you need to get more charge to the hole.



Yeah, I know but it doesn't seem to matter what I eat. They said more fiber, less fat but that is not helping. The only thing that digests well is white bread or crackers


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## blsnelling (Jun 8, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> You might consider something to give you more trans area. . . You already have a big hole for the pipe to suck through, now you need to get more charge to the hole.



This while build is a new ball game for me. I've never tried finger ports or external transfers. Maybe its time to learn.


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## Zombiechopper (Jun 8, 2012)

just copy from the pics of Randy's finger ports 

I saw that saw of his on youtube and holy whoppers does it go


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## joatmon (Jun 8, 2012)

gink595 said:


> My arsehole sure misses the little guy! LOL



Frank .... you still talking gall bladder. Never mind, I don't really want to know. joat


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## gink595 (Jun 8, 2012)

joatmon said:


> Frank .... you still talking gall bladder. Never mind, I don't really want to know. joat



I knew it:hmm3grin2orange: I re-worded that several times before I posted it. I wish the wife would talk like that


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## gink595 (Jun 8, 2012)

Zombiechopper said:


> They did mine 3 weeks ago. Emergency surgery. There were more stones than gall bladder and it was leaking, infected and had gangrene  Didn't feel very nice so I'm glad the MFer is gone, but I need to hurry up and grow some callouses down there. 8 times a day is getting old.




It didn't get any better for me, been 5 years now! If anything it has gotten worse!


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## Mr_O'Malley (Jul 2, 2012)

Any news on the pipe?


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## blsnelling (Jul 2, 2012)

After raising the exhaust another 5°, I sent the head back to Frank. Is now back up to 181-182 PSI compression. I've not yet gotten it back in the wood. When I do, I'll play with the ignition timing, and start shortening the stinger on the pipe. There's also more work to do on the length of the belly and baffle cone angle.


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## Mr_O'Malley (Jul 3, 2012)

Sounds like you're having fun mate.
Good luck with it!


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## husq2100 (Jul 3, 2012)

why did Gink get banned???


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## MCW (Jul 3, 2012)

husq2100 said:


> why did Gink get banned???



Not sure but these were his last posts. Maybe something went on in PM's or something?

http://www.arboristsite.com/hot-saws/201836.htm


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## Adirondackstihl (Jul 3, 2012)

I could name a few others that shouldve gotten the axe instead :msp_unsure:


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## blsnelling (Jul 3, 2012)

Adirondackstihl said:


> I could name a few others that shouldve gotten the axe instead :msp_unsure:



That add a lot less to this forum than Frank did!


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## Hedgerow (Jul 3, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> That add a lot less to this forum than Frank did!



Awe CRAP!!! How do we get him back??? He added flavor to the site... I want Frank back...
:amazed:


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## tlandrum (Jul 3, 2012)

frank got himself banned by sending some pretty potty mouthed pm's to moderators


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## Hedgerow (Jul 3, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> frank got himself banned by sending some pretty potty mouthed pm's to moderators



Whaaaattt???
:waaaht:

Frank??? Potty mouth???

Who'd a thunk it???
:big_smile:

Maybe it's just a short time out in banned camp...


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## Trx250r180 (Jul 3, 2012)

MCW said:


> Not sure but these were his last posts. Maybe something went on in PM's or something?
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/hot-saws/201836.htm







sounds like Gink told someone what he thought ............


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## Adirondackstihl (Jul 3, 2012)

That may be the case, but at least he did it in a PM where it wasnt open to the general public.
Callin someone out on the carpet to pick a fight / instigating is something we did in grade school.
My 3yr old behaves better than that !
They aint worth losin any forum time over it. 

BRING FRANK BACK :msp_angry:


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## parrisw (Jul 3, 2012)

I was under the impression that Franks ban was lifted. ??


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## blsnelling (Jul 3, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I was under the impression that Franks ban was lifted. ??



The initial one was. Frank then told then *exactly* what he thought of the situation, and asked them to permanently ban him.


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## parrisw (Jul 3, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The initial one was. Frank then told them *exactly* what he thought of the situation, and asked them to permanently ban him.



Ok, I suspected that. I know he wasn't happy with how everything went down.


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## komatsuvarna (Jul 3, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Ok, I suspected that. I know he wasn't happy with how everything went down.



Well.....It was kinda BS IMO. 5 on 1 and the 1 gets #### canned for taking up for his self.....I wouldn't be happy either lol.


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## blsnelling (Jul 3, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Ok, I suspected that. I know he wasn't happy with how everything went down.



The entire situation could have been avoided by impartial modding. That thread was started in bad taste and should have never been allowed to continue.


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## parrisw (Jul 3, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> Well.....It was kinda BS IMO. 5 on 1 and the 1 gets #### canned for taking up for his self.....I wouldn't be happy either lol.





blsnelling said:


> The entire situation could have been avoided by impartial modding. That thread was started in bad taste and should have never been allowed to continue.



Ya, I agree. I was banned as well for what went on.


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## Hedgerow (Jul 3, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Ya, I agree. I was banned as well for what went on.



I seem to recall that thread... I didn't think it was that bad... :msp_rolleyes:


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## parrisw (Jul 3, 2012)

Hedgerow said:


> I seem to recall that thread... I didn't think it was that bad... :msp_rolleyes:



Ya, its what happens when a Mod takes sides, and is involved in the argument, and whom was also poking fun at Frank.


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## komatsuvarna (Jul 3, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Ya, its what happens when a Mod takes sides, and is involved in the argument, and whom was also poking fun at Frank.



yup.....


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## blsnelling (Jul 3, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Ya, its what happens when a Mod takes sides, and is involved in the argument, and whom was also poking fun at Frank.



And harassed another sponsor himself, making flat out accusations that were never substantiated. The whole thing backfired on them. The whole thing was a bunch of crap.


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## parrisw (Jul 3, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> And harassed another sponsor himself, making flat out accusations that were never substantiated. The whole thing backfired on them. The whole thing was a bunch of crap.



Yes, pretty sad actually. I never knew a mod could act that way and get away with it and still be a mod.


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## Andyshine77 (Jul 3, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Yes, pretty sad actually. I never knew a mod could act that way and get away with it and still be a mod.



The problem is this particular mod, simply doesn't have the necessary tools to properly mod a forum. I'm not downing the person in question he just lacks the tools to deal with things in a social environment.


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## blsnelling (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi Andre!


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## Tzed250 (Jul 3, 2012)

Back in before bannings and lock...


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## blsnelling (Jul 3, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Back in before bannings and lock...



Andre is honestly defending him, not attacking him.


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## Tzed250 (Jul 3, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Andre is honestly defending him, not attacking him.



I understand. It's the complaining about moderation that I see as a potential issue


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## Hedgerow (Jul 3, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> The problem is this particular mod, simply doesn't have the necessary tools to properly mod a forum. I'm not downing the person in question he just lacks the tools tools to deal with things in a social environment.



Usually when the fire has been returned and volleyed, is when a mod should step in and "POOF" the thread goes away!!!
It can be done with, or without, a warning... The super mod can always clean it up and re-instate the thread if he or she choses to do so...
Myself? I don't mind some spirited debate, but it can go south in a hurry...


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## Andyshine77 (Jul 3, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Andre is honestly defending him, not attacking him.



Correct. 

Sup Brad.:msp_smile:


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## Andyshine77 (Jul 3, 2012)

Hedgerow said:


> Usually when the fire has been returned and volleyed, is when a mod should step in and "POOF" the thread goes away!!!
> It can be done with, or without, a warning... The super mod can always clean it up and re-instate the thread if he or she choses to do so...
> Myself? I don't mind some spirited debate, but it can go south in a hurry...



You may have misunderstood what I was trying to say without sounding mean.


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## Hedgerow (Jul 3, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> You may have misunderstood what I was trying to say without sounding mean.



But I like it when you sound mean, professor... 

That, and I hit the "reply with quote" instead of just reply to thread...
:big_smile:


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## stihlboy (Jul 3, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Ya, I agree. I was banned as well for what went on.





parrisw said:


> Ya, its what happens when a Mod takes sides, and is involved in the argument, and whom was also poking fun at Frank.





parrisw said:


> Yes, pretty sad actually. I never knew a mod could act that way and get away with it and still be a mod.



will, please stop the whining.

This is your warning guys.


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## parrisw (Jul 3, 2012)

stihlboy said:


> will, please stop the whining. This is your warning.



I didn't know whining was against the rules? I wasn't the only one that was saying anything about it.


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## parrisw (Jul 3, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> well.....it was kinda bs imo. 5 on 1 and the 1 gets #### canned for taking up for his self.....i wouldn't be happy either lol.





blsnelling said:


> the entire situation could have been avoided by impartial modding. That thread was started in bad taste and should have never been allowed to continue.





hedgerow said:


> i seem to recall that thread... I didn't think it was that bad... :msp_rolleyes:





komatsuvarna said:


> yup.....





blsnelling said:


> and harassed another sponsor himself, making flat out accusations that were never substantiated. The whole thing backfired on them. The whole thing was a bunch of crap.





andyshine77 said:


> the problem is this particular mod, simply doesn't have the necessary tools to properly mod a forum. I'm not downing the person in question he just lacks the tools to deal with things in a social environment.





stihlboy said:


> will, please stop the whining. This is your warning.




?


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## stihlboy (Jul 3, 2012)

I would like to take this opportunity to publicly apologize for what happened.
If I could change it I would, But I can't. I acted without impartiality and for that I am sorry.
If frank would like to come back I would welcome him back with open arms and no hard feelings.

From now on neither emotion nor friendship shall be a factor in my moderation.

Again I will say 

I AM SORRY


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## stihlboy (Jul 3, 2012)

parrisw said:


> ?



sorry forgot the enter to drop a line it was meant to be a blanketed statement


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## parrisw (Jul 3, 2012)

stihlboy said:


> sorry forgot the enter to drop a line it was meant to be a blanketed statement



Then why did you just quote me? And only mention my name?


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## Gologit (Jul 3, 2012)

Enough.


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