# Thinking about stump grinding....



## Bryan LaPrad (Sep 28, 2010)

hey guys! i cant believe i didnt find this site sooner, from what i have had the chance to look at it appears there is a lot of information here! i have been in the tree industry for about 3.5 years now (which i know is nothing!), have taken a couple arbormaster classes, intend on taking a couple more and i really enjoy the field. the reason i am writing tonight is to get some info on stump grinding...i was thinking about possibly buying a grinder and sub-contracting for my boss and also working on my own a little bit...i have no experience in grinding although i feel that i could pick it up fairly quick. i guess what i am looking for is some information on different types of machines and also some info on insurance...what would be required? thanks!


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## Bryan LaPrad (Sep 29, 2010)

nobody has any input? come on...anything will be helpful!


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## bruce6670 (Sep 29, 2010)

Sounds like a good idea. Why doesn't your boss already do it for himself though ?


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## beowulf343 (Sep 29, 2010)

Stump grinding isn't my thing, but around here everyone and his brother has a "stump grinding business." The pennysaver averages about three stump grinding ads a page. And those are just the ones who can afford to advertise.


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## meatwagon45 (Sep 29, 2010)

A buddy of mine is doing the same thing. A few years ago, he and his brother rented a grinder and did a few stumps in their own yards. A neighbor asked them to do a couple and ended up paying for the rental. The neighbor told some friends and they got calls without advertising or even being in business within a few days. They rented another machine, did the stumps and had a nice down payment on a new grinder. At the same time, a guy in town went out on his own and started his own tree service. My friends were contracted to do all the stump work at their convienience. They both work 9-5 jobs and do stumps at night and on weekends.

Seeing how they started out, I would recomend renting a machine to do a few stumps. That way, you see if you want to make the investment and if you do, the rental makes some cash for the down payment. If you dont want to do it, return the machine and you are out and clear. Also, you can learn what you are doing with the rental before screwing up your own machine.


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## Bryan LaPrad (Sep 29, 2010)

im not sure why my boss doesnt do it himself...hes trying to grow the business in other aspects...he bought a bucket truck earlier this year and hes hoping within the next couples to buy a crane. hes the one that actually gave me the idea. he said that instead of giving a name of someone else that he would just refer the customer to me, this way its kind of "in house" still, gets me more money, keeps me busy (which is a good thing), and its something i can do on my own. i just dont know anything about them. im sure they are pretty basic to run. i can run our bucket truck, mowers, backhoes, etc. and i can work on them too. any brand preferences? i see the vermeer 252 is a popular mid sized model. any other ones?


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## bruce6670 (Sep 29, 2010)

I have a Carlton 2400-4 that I like better than the 252. I think you could do well if you can get the work to keep busy. Just don't work too cheap.


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## bruce6670 (Sep 29, 2010)

meatwagon45 said:


> Seeing how they started out, I would recomend renting a machine to do a few stumps. That way, you see if you want to make the investment and if you do, the rental makes some cash for the down payment. If you dont want to do it, return the machine and you are out and clear. Also, you can learn what you are doing with the rental before screwing up your own machine.



That's good advice.


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## pdaniel13 (Sep 29, 2010)

Bryan,

I have been considering starting stump grinding myself. As meatwagon45 stated of his friend, I too have rented smaller stump grinders on several occasions. You might want to consider doing the same. I actually joined this site hoping to get some feedback about different stump grinders. I am considering a Rayco 1635 Super Jr or a Carlton SP4012. Both are similar to the Vermeer SC252. Based on my review of the literature and specifications, I think the Carlton is the best machine; however, it is more expensive. I believe the Rayco would be second. I am leaning towards the Rayco for the price/utility ratio. 

I would really like some input from users of these machines, preferably those that have used more than one of the three.


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## Bryan LaPrad (Sep 29, 2010)

the renting is a great idea. like it was said, this way i dont buy a machine and break it or beat it up learning. i wouldnt mind paying a little extra for a machine that will last longer, work easier, and is durable. if this does go through i would take care of it (not that you guys dont or wouldnt).


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## bruce6670 (Sep 29, 2010)

Get the biggest self propelled grinder you can afford. The 25 hp machines are ok ,but they are slower.


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## Bryan LaPrad (Sep 30, 2010)

does anyone have any recommendations for dealers in the new england area? im from connecticut, about 25 minutes east of hartford. i dont really have a brand preference, im just looking for a dependable machine. whats a good price for a used one? i know it varies on hours and how old it is.


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## bruce6670 (Sep 30, 2010)

My manual for my Carlton shows a dealer in Connecticut called Cummins Metropower. 1-860-529-7474. My manual is 10 years old though.


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## Bryan LaPrad (Sep 30, 2010)

great! thanks.


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## meatwagon45 (Sep 30, 2010)

There is a Vermeer dealer on Rt 8 south of Waterbury. I can't remember what town but they are right next to the off ramp. I think it is in Seymour. Take a ride down, you can't miss it


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## Bryan LaPrad (Sep 30, 2010)

thanks! thats cool. i may have to go down there and talk to them and check out some models.


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## tree md (Sep 30, 2010)

Bryan LaPrad said:


> im not sure why my boss doesnt do it himself...hes trying to grow the business in other aspects...he bought a bucket truck earlier this year and hes hoping within the next couples to buy a crane. hes the one that actually gave me the idea. he said that instead of giving a name of someone else that he would just refer the customer to me, this way its kind of "in house" still, gets me more money, keeps me busy (which is a good thing), and its something i can do on my own. i just dont know anything about them. im sure they are pretty basic to run. i can run our bucket truck, mowers, backhoes, etc. and i can work on them too. any brand preferences? i see the vermeer 252 is a popular mid sized model. any other ones?



Your boss prolly doesn't want to mess with the stumps. I know I don't like to. There is money to be made with them if you don't mind doing it. I personally hate grinding stumps.

For the past two years I have been using a sub to do my stumps. He called me on the phone one day and just asked me if I had some stumps for him to grind. Didn't know him from Adam's house cat. I told him sure, meet me at this address and I'll put you to work. Saw that he had a nice 252, was clean cut and did a good job so I haven't touched a stump in two years. That being said, he had to get out of it this year. He wasn't making enough money to support his family.

I have to grind about 15 stumps myself next week... Well, my groundy does anyway... But I hate getting bogged down with stumps. Instead of starting another large job Monday I have to spend a day on stumps.


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## ctrees4$ (Sep 30, 2010)

Theres not much money to be made stump grinding.You will sink thousands of dollars in a machine that will constantly need teeth sharpend or replaced.Breathing the dust and tracking it inside your truck is priceless.There is a reason your boss is not grinding stumps, he just aint sayin:monkey:


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## Farnorth49 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Grinding*

I operate a walk behind model that works well here in Alaska. The trees in this area are not nearly as big as the states because of the climate difference. The machine can be a bear to operate but it helps keep me in shape and the walk behind is a fraction of the cost. Even though I do this business on the side the machine paid for itself this summer. I charge hourly which seems to work best for me and the customer. I carry 2m in liability insurance but have not had to use it.:greenchainsaw:


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## dgclark (Oct 3, 2010)

*stump grinder*



Bryan LaPrad said:


> hey guys! i cant believe i didnt find this site sooner, from what i have had the chance to look at it appears there is a lot of information here! i have been in the tree industry for about 3.5 years now (which i know is nothing!), have taken a couple arbormaster classes, intend on taking a couple more and i really enjoy the field. the reason i am writing tonight is to get some info on stump grinding...i was thinking about possibly buying a grinder and sub-contracting for my boss and also working on my own a little bit...i have no experience in grinding although i feel that i could pick it up fairly quick. i guess what i am looking for is some information on different types of machines and also some info on insurance...what would be required? thanks!



I own a Vermeer 352, and I highly recommend it. Actually I have two of them and am considering selling one of them


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## shmokinjoe (Oct 26, 2010)

pdaniel13 said:


> Bryan,
> 
> I have been considering starting stump grinding myself. As meatwagon45 stated of his friend, I too have rented smaller stump grinders on several occasions. You might want to consider doing the same. I actually joined this site hoping to get some feedback about different stump grinders. I am considering a Rayco 1635 Super Jr or a Carlton SP4012. Both are similar to the Vermeer SC252. Based on my review of the literature and specifications, I think the Carlton is the best machine; however, it is more expensive. I believe the Rayco would be second. I am leaning towards the Rayco for the price/utility ratio.
> 
> I would really like some input from users of these machines, preferably those that have used more than one of the three.



I have the Carlton SP4012 with the wireless remote 33hp turbo diesel kubota and back blade and sandvik Dura disk ...I thought if I'm gonna buy brand new I want all the bells and whistles. It now comes with the 44hp turbo diesel kubota, which if I'd known about before ordering the 33hp I would've gone 44. Over all this is a great mid size grinder and am very happy with it, before this I was using (still got it) an old Vermeer 630A tow behind, there is no comparrison, the hassles with a tow behind is self explainatory..gettiing in and out of the vehicle to reposition the grinder all the time is a pain compared to driving the grinder by remote remote control. I decided to go Carlton instead of Vermeer because of all the threads that I read on this site and I'm very happy with the choice, I also use a Rayco RG20HD which I'm very happy with, I've had this brand new since '04 and would probably replace it with another Rayco. I find the Dura disk cutter wheel is awesome and wouldn't use any other, however be aware that this is a CARLTON Dura Disk and not Sandvik, same thing just that Carlton altered the shanks slightly on the teeth so only Carlton teeth fit and not Sandvik so you have to buy teeth off your Carlton dealer which are dearer than Sanvik's, I only found this out after it arrived..(sneaky pricks!), so if your thinking of the Dura Disk Cutter (which I recommend) you might want to leave some funds a side to retro fit the Sandvik Disc later...Also if you choose the Kubota engine then I'd recommend wireless remote because of the radiator which restricts the view of the cutter wheel when standing at the controls, but I'd recommend reomote anyway just because it makes every thing so much easier and better on your lungs...anyway hope this helps. cheers.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 26, 2010)

You should always have a Dosko self-propelled walk behind. It will easily compete with a 252 against a dude with his man-suit on.
Jeff


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## ozzy42 (Oct 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> You should always have a Dosko self-propelled walk behind. It will easily compete with a 252 against a dude with his man-suit on.
> Jeff



Yeah ,I had handlebar grinder a long time ago,but now use the lil 252,but what WTH, it has an umbrella,a cup holder and cruise control.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Don't-B-Stumped (Oct 28, 2010)

at best its probably going to be a part time business. thats what it is for me unless we have a hurricane. i have a rayco 1635 that i bought new 4 years ago. very economical to run. i like greenteeth as i think they are the cheapest and they rotate for longer life.
i do work for some tree guys that don't want to bother with a grinder and some landscape guys. try to line up some of those businesses. there isn't enough homeowners who take down their own trees to keep you busy i doubt.
if you can keep the work coming in theres good money in it. like they said its dirty work but i don't mind. i also have an umbrella on mine to stay out of the sun.


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## a_lopa (Oct 29, 2010)

I have had big and small machines,only have a rayco 60hp tow behind now for big stumps,If that cant get to them i pass on them.

each to there own i got to say the dust is crazy bad for you and buy a diamond wheel to sharpen.

I wouldnt own another small machine not worth it IMHO


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## The Count (Oct 29, 2010)

Bryan LaPrad said:


> nobody has any input? come on...anything will be helpful!



give it some time.
I like the ideea.
I am from Romania Europe and we have a project on mobile briqueting unit.
but it is a different grinder. and a green project founded by the European Union.

don`t kow anything about machines, but what will you do with the dust ?
will you use it somehow ?

best luck with your business.


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## derwoodii (Oct 29, 2010)

Welcome to AS Bryan and Daniel. 
Heres some of my stump grindin feed back. 
Its dirty hard dusty muddy your machine will often chew more money than stump wood and as its at the end of the work food chain goes mostly unthanked.

What I mean here is the HO gets in a tree bloke pays say $1000 bucks to have it gone and then you quote $150+ to remove the stump so he sees it as expensive and arguable unnecessary hell even if you do a great job it hard to get reffered work, people talk about the great tree guy not the stump guy.
That said money can be made in areas without established competition and havin a buddy feedin ya work a great start. 

I reckon start small self propelled build and learn

KAHPLAH BATL JEH


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## Don't-B-Stumped (Oct 29, 2010)

i love the smell of freshly ground yellow pine in the morning.


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## ctrees4$ (Oct 29, 2010)

I love the smell of cash but after cleaning a stump up there is too much dust in my nose to smell it.


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## rarefish383 (Oct 30, 2010)

When my Dad retired, I got out of the tree bus. I still have a Vermeer 630A tow behind grinder. It's paid for so it's all cash in my pocket. I use my John Deere 265 to pull it around in nice yards to keep from making ruts. I mounted a Harbor Freight winch on the back to get it where my tractor won't go. I actually like it better than the 252, but I've used it for so many years, I seem to be able to get to stumps others just shake their heads at. A self propelled would probably be better, but, it's not worth it to me to upgrade. 

Some ding-a-ling locally was putting signs on the side of the road, "18inch stumps ground for $23". If the stump is in town my min is $100, if I have to travel more than about 15 min from home it's $150. Big Maple or White Pine stumps that take up half of a yard run about $750. If I'm on a job 8 to 10 hours, whether 1 stump or a yard full of stumps, I wanna make $1000, and just won't bother for less than $750. 

Stump grinders, by nature of what they do, are not low maintenance machines. 

I always loved playing with stump grinders because they are one of the ulltimate "Boy Toys", they make a lot of noise and destroy stuff. Especially our old Vermeer model 10, it was a monster that beat a 3/4 ton pick up to death, and would push a 1 ton stake body around. But now, I'd rather go hunting or fishing.

As others have mentioned, it seems like every one and his brother have one, and some work for what would be minimum wage in China. Don't know how they do it, actually, don't know why they do it. Any professional makes $65 to $85 an hour nowadays, electric, auto, small engine. Why beat yourself and machine to death for 10 bucks an hour.

There's still money to be made in it, just takes more effort than I want to put in. Like I said my machine is paid for, so it costs me nothing sitting. I only do a couple stumps a month and make good pocket money. I do work for a friend that puts in patios and walks and that's about it now. I used to do work for a couple tree companies. Check around, I did a lot of work for my cousin because he would only grind stumps for trees he took down. If some one called just for stump work he sent them to me. Alot of tree guys do that, they consider it low end work with alot of over head for the return. Good luck, Joe.


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## ctrees4$ (Oct 30, 2010)

If the stump is in town my min is $100, if I have to travel more than about 15 min from home it's $150. Big Maple or White Pine stumps that take up half of a yard run about $750. If I'm on a job 8 to 10 hours, whether 1 stump or a yard full of stumps, I wanna make $1000, and just won't bother for less than $750. 

:jawdrop: Someone should wake him up before he wets the bed!!!! Hurry up... he's dreaming! Just wont bother for less than $750.  If that kind of money could be made grinding stumps I wouldn't be pecking away on a keyboard... I would be grinding stumps!


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## rarefish383 (Oct 30, 2010)

Granted, I'm in the Metro DC area, as I said I only do a few stumps on the side, mostly for one contractor friend. Why on earth would you pay tens of thousands of dollars for a new, or even several thousands for an old used machine, to make 10 or 20 bucks an hour? I work full time for UPS now and they pay me $30 an hour just to move tractor trailers around the yard. Like the ding-a-ling putting up signs to grind stumps for $23 dollars, you have to have 2 hrs in a smallest job, that's $11.50 an hour. If I had to work for $11.50 an hour at least I'd do it for someone else so I'd get some bennies. That's like all the guys that bust their buts to take down a tree to get free firewood, when they could have charged a good fair price. If an electrician can take a beat up van and a screw driver to a house and change a circuit reaker and get $85 an hour with an hour min, why wouldn't you? Just a thought, Joe.


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## rarefish383 (Oct 30, 2010)

Just noticed, ctres4$, that your from TN. Love the state, and have friends in Sneedville. It's a point well made that different areas do very drastically in what can be charged. In Sneedville, they woul probably laugh, at the idea of removing a stump that's gonna rot out in a few years anyway. Absolutely no direspect intended, in the area I live, $85 an hour is not out of line for any type of manual labor. I guess it's all relative, if you're in a more depressed area, you have to work for less, but a new car still cost pretty much the same where ever you get it. Peace brother, Joe.


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## bruce6670 (Oct 30, 2010)

I disagree on your "stump grinders are low maintenance" opinion. The cost to replace teeth and cutter head bearings is pretty high and it takes some time to do it. Changing oil, cleaning air filters, and greasing everything also takes time and cost a few bucks.

I agree on your pricing though. Why beat up the machine, only to make less than what you would make working for someone else? I try to make $100. per hour ( going by the hour meter ). I'll lower the price if there's a days work involved. Doing it as a side job allows you to pick and choose the jobs you take. I only take the good stuff.


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## tree md (Oct 30, 2010)

The sub that I mentioned earlier is back working for me. He priced 4 stumps for me last week: One 28" Hickory stump in back yard for $80, three more small Oak stumps in the front, all around a foot or so in diameter, he's gonna have to chase the roots out on one of them. Said he would do all 4 stumps for $150. It will probably take him about an hour. Still a deal to me. I'd rather pay him than do it myself. I thought the price was pretty reasonable.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 30, 2010)

bruce6670 said:


> I disagree on your "stump grinders are low maintenance" opinion. The cost to replace teeth and cutter head bearings is pretty high and it takes some time to do it. Changing oil, cleaning air filters, and greasing everything also takes time and cost a few bucks..



Let's see. 
Replace teeth=15 minutes
Oil change done with teeth replace=same time
Air filter done with oil change=same time
And greasing all the zerk's above=same time.
So, yeah, low maintinence, yup.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 30, 2010)

And if you are changing your cutter head bearings, you are not greasing!
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 30, 2010)

Or cleaning out the belly pan daily.
Jeff


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## bruce6670 (Oct 30, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> And if you are changing your cutter head bearings, you are not greasing!
> Jeff



I'm just trying to let the OP know that there are expenses involved with owning a stump grinder. It's not just grind and go to the bank.

As for cutter head bearings, even if you grease them every couple hours, they still where out. They're in a really dirty environment must of the time.


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## derwoodii (Oct 30, 2010)

Hmm perhaps buy an Axe and shovel start diggin em by hand thats how I began. You learn a lot about tree stump n root structure and get fit too.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 30, 2010)

bruce6670 said:


> I'm just trying to let the OP know that there are expenses involved with owning a stump grinder.
> 
> Yeah, like not taking care of your machine.
> Are you serious?
> Jeff


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## bruce6670 (Oct 30, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> bruce6670 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just trying to let the OP know that there are expenses involved with owning a stump grinder.
> ...


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## rarefish383 (Oct 30, 2010)

bruce6670 said:


> I disagree on your "stump grinders are low maintenance" opinion. The cost to replace teeth and cutter head bearings is pretty high and it takes some time to do it. Changing oil, cleaning air filters, and greasing everything also takes time and cost a few bucks.
> 
> I agree on your pricing though. Why beat up the machine, only to make less than what you would make working for someone else? I try to make $100. per hour ( going by the hour meter ). I'll lower the price if there's a days work involved. Doing it as a side job allows you to pick and choose the jobs you take. I only take the good stuff.



Thanks Bruce, that was my point to the OP also. I got the impression he was looking at stump grinding as a bus, so why work for hourley wages. Even a part time bus you still need a tow vehicle, trailer for a self propelled, 2 sets of tags and insurance (for the vehicles), etc. I think that's where a lot of new guys get into trouble. Even working a 2 times your current hourley rate, as a bus, you might be operating at a loss. 

I think you missed one little word in my statement about mainenance. I said "by nature of what they do they are NOT low maintenance". So we agree on that too. My Vermeer 630A is an early to mid 70's machine. It has been very durable. But, all of the filters, oil, grease, teeth, belts, have to be cared for daily. If you get lazy, you're gonna ruin an expensive piece of equipment. My 66 Fury convertible gets about 2 thousand mile a year put on it. I change the oil in the spring, check the points and plugs, and then drive it for the good months of the year. Now that's low maintenance, Joe.


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## bruce6670 (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks for the correction, I did miss the "not " part.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 30, 2010)

I stand by what I said.
Jeff


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## davidwilsoon (Oct 31, 2010)

bruce6670 said:


> Get the biggest self propelled grinder you can afford. The 25 hp machines are ok ,but they are slower.



does anyone have any recommendations for dealers in the new england area? im from connecticut, about 25 minutes east of hartford. i dont really have a brand preference, im just looking for a dependable machine. whats a good price for a used one? i know it varies on hours and how old it is.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 31, 2010)

davidwilsoon said:


> does anyone have any recommendations for dealers in the new england area? im from connecticut, about 25 minutes east of hartford. i dont really have a brand preference, im just looking for a dependable machine. whats a good price for a used one? i know it varies on hours and how old it is.



I smell spam! New England or Hawaii? Spam
Jeff:spam:


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## The Count (Nov 9, 2010)

:spam:


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