# How long should a chain last cutting firewood?



## Dropsix (Dec 22, 2015)

Chain was a brand new Stihl RS .325 chain that I've been using to cut mixed firewood for about 4 weeks. Some of it is dirty but not too bad.

I've been sharpening the chain every couple gas tanks, 2-5 strokes with the Stihl 2 in 1 file.

Chainsaw is a Husqvarna 55. 

I'm asking because the chain is now useless and I've only used it about 20-25 hours. I can add a photo later to show the difference between it and the new chain.


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## moondoggie (Dec 22, 2015)

If I dont hit any dirt I can cut about 3 cords of wood between sharpening. If its pretty dirty maybe a cord... or even less than a cord. Have you filed your rakers down at all? Is your bar dressed?

Edit: I see you do file the rakers down. I only file mine down every 4 or 5 sharpenings.. Maybe less


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## Whiskers (Dec 22, 2015)

It all depends on what your cutting. Is the chain dull after 2 tanks? If not, you might be wasting good chain. If the wood is dirty rm chain will also stay sharp longer. 

In standing timber I cut with my father in law I can typically run the same chain all day long without sharpening it as long as I don't find a dirt pocket or hit the fence line.


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## svk (Dec 22, 2015)

Stihl chain is tough stuff. I felled, limbed, and bucked 6 cords of aspen plus noodled an additional cord of Norway pine with 3/8 chisel chain and it was still sharp to the touch until I hit a rock. 

Long winded thought but I agree with whiskers, you may be filing too much.


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## angelo c (Dec 22, 2015)

I cut a load of dirty skidded hickory this fall that I could get maybe a 8 or 10 cuts or one or two logs worth of rounds out of a filing. Some clean swamp maple(silver maple) I could cut a few cords with. When it ain't throwing chips well it's time to file. Period. There ain't no set times for theses things. It is, what it is....or you rebuild saws a lot.


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## nstueve (Dec 22, 2015)

Need pics of chain. You also need to manually check your rakers to make sure they are actually set to right depth.


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## fearofpavement (Dec 22, 2015)

By the chain being useless, do you mean you've sharpened it until the teeth were gone? Or do you mean it just doesn't cut very good anymore?
If the chain is "gone", it's been used up and needs replacing. If it just doesn't cut right, that can be remedied.


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## Jet47 (Dec 23, 2015)

angelo c said:


> I cut a load of dirty skidded hickory this fall that I could get maybe a 8 or 10 cuts or one or two logs worth of rounds out of a filing. Some clean swamp maple(silver maple) I could cut a few cords with. When it ain't throwing chips well it's time to file. Period. There ain't no set times for theses things. It is, what it is....or you rebuild saws a lot.




Agreed.


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## Nitroman (Dec 23, 2015)

I have cut 5-6 sledloads of wood (18 trees), before sharpening, but this is pristine wood.


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## treesmith (Dec 23, 2015)

Today I sharpened a 461 with 20" RM three times for one 20" cut. It was on the stump of a failed twin stem tree removal, middle was rotten and full of dirt, roots and debris

My climbing saws stay sharp the longest


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## Big_Wood (Dec 23, 2015)

if i'm cutting to sell firewood a chain will last me 3 weeks to a month. if i just cut firewood for myself a chain will last 4 seasons of burning and sometimes into a 5th season if i'm cutting nothing but clean wood. i don't really cut dirty wood though. i actually go ring them standing 3 months before i need them so they dump all their water lol. they season real fast that way.


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## Westboastfaller (Dec 23, 2015)

DuhEEEE.... tree or four


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## square1 (Dec 23, 2015)

No exact science to it. My cutter life and bar length adjustment usually get used up about the same time, YMMV.


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## drf255 (Dec 23, 2015)

A month and 20-25 hours of continuous use?

While I agree that you're likely sharpening too often, that's not that bad IMHO for a chain. Especially in .325. The smaller cutters dull easier. 

My last big tree but here was a 60' X 36" sugar maple. With a ported 066 and an .404 chain, I needed one sharpening for the entire job. And I noodled the big end of the tree just to move the rounds.


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## rd35 (Dec 23, 2015)

The fastest cutting chains I have are the ones that only have a tiny little triangle shaped top plate left on the cutter. When the cutters begin to break off because they are so thin there is no metal left to hold the top portion of the cutter on the remainder of the side plate then I toss the chain.


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## mountainlake (Dec 23, 2015)

As above a properly sharpened chain should cut good as new or better until the teeth start to break off. Steve


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## wde_1978 (Dec 23, 2015)

nstueve said:


> Need pics of chain. You also need to manually check your rakers to make sure they are actually set to right depth.


Not entirely true!
He can grind the rakers of completely if he's got a DolKiVarna. 

Between 2006. and 2014. while I had one main firewood saw, my Dolmar PS-6400, I got 2-3 years out of a chain cutting anything between 10-20 cubic meters a year of dragged oak and beech firewood logs and some small stuff around the house.
At that point the chain would have only triangles left standing and the kerf it would make would be too narrow for bucking logs - I would get another year or so out of them cutting thin stuff or using them for junk jobs.
Other then my "worn chain" I would only have ONE good chain in use!



rd35 said:


> The fastest cutting chains I have are the ones that only have a tiny little triangle shaped top plate left on the cutter. When the cutters begin to break off because they are so thin there is no metal left to hold the top portion of the cutter on the remainder of the side plate then I toss the chain.


Totally agree, the chains cut as if they were possessed once they are worn past the witness mark (Dolmar/Oregon), but the kerf begins to be really tight.

My "worn out chains"!



This one lost the battle against a bone dry willow the other day (it is the right one in the above picture).


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## nk14zp (Dec 23, 2015)

It will last until it's dull.


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## lambs (Dec 23, 2015)

NK is quite right. I volunteer for a heating assistance program, bucking donated tops on the tree service's lot. A couple weeks ago I dulled five RS chains in one morning session. Sometimes the wood is just dirty. 

This past Saturday I dulled one chain. But a buddy hit an embedded nail with a semi-chisel Husky chain and it was not pretty. I am working on it now for him.

This is why I prefer 3/8 pitch chain and have two grinders!


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## AVB (Dec 23, 2015)

Don't get to run .325 much nearly all my cutting is with .375LP chains. I did recently added a Husky 450 with 20" .325 to my saw arsenal.

I generally only sharpen when needed and not just because a certain amount. With experience an operator will know when the chain is no longer like it should and needs sharping. It just like using any knife sometimes they cut a long time and other times needs constant sharping; just what it is asked to do.

I have found that chains will dull according to what your cutting. Dirty wood dulls chains quickly. Dry season wood normally dull chains faster than green wood; it simply harder and more abravise. Even the type tree can make a big difference in sharping times depending mineral content. I don't like cutting Hackberry here as the bark dulls chains so quickly; the wood itself is not bad. On hitting nails, wire, rocks, etc can really do a number on chains. Even with this my chains usually last 5 to 10 cords of 18" firewood before I need to replace them; of course, I pay close attention to what and where I am cutting. 

Others here probably agree if you saw railroad spike in two you might not even get one sharping before replacing a chain; had this to happen once cutting a tree from the city. Kids and some adults are bad about driving metal objects in trees. Either way always have a spare chain or two on hand when cutting in case the worst happens especially if your in a remote location. Sometimes it don't even hurt to carry a spare saw as you may need cut your main saw out of bad unexpected bind.


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## nk14zp (Dec 23, 2015)

A Morbark 27" whole tree chipper can do 19 loads on one set of knives but sometimes you change knives four times fir one load.


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## Dropsix (Dec 23, 2015)

Hi All!

Apologies for the late reply. Here are some photos. What I'm gathering from all your informative responses is that I've likely over done it with the sharpening as well as just plainly cut a lot of wood.


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## Whiskers (Dec 23, 2015)

those chains have a lot of life left!


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## Dropsix (Dec 23, 2015)

Whiskers said:


> those chains have a lot of life left!



The one on the saw is brand spanking new. The other is the one I was talking about. It just doesn't cut properly anymore. It's also much much smaller than the other.


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## AVB (Dec 23, 2015)

In my opinion there is still plenty life left in the chain shown. They can be filed down to the witness marks and still be usable. After that then the cutters become unstable as they may break off easily. I filed some my personal chains down to nubs and still get fairly good cutting when I don't have spare chain with me but I replaced the chain before the next field trip.

The important things is using the correct file and filing at the correct angle for the type cutting your doing which is most like mostly cross cutting. If you do a lot ripping then have a rip chain for that purpose on hand.

When filing you want to remove shiny rounded edge to a clean cutting edge. Any round over will prevent good cutting.


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## square1 (Dec 23, 2015)

don't listen to those guys! That chain is shot, box it up and send it to me for proper disposal


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 23, 2015)

Clean the gullet out and you'll notice a big difference.


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 23, 2015)

That chain has been spooned over ,hit a rock maybe ? or the ground ? You need to remove the damage for it to cut like new again .
Do you have a top pic to comfirm what i see ?


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## rd35 (Dec 23, 2015)

Awe shucks....square 1 beat me to the punch. That worn chain still has 75% life left in it IMHO! All but one of my chains for my MS26o are worn much farther than that and they are wood chomping monsters after a fresh sharpening. I can cut several pick-up truck loads before a chain needs to be put back on the "dull nail" on the wall of my shop. Just gotta be sure not to touch dirt, rocks, or fence wire. I put a fresh chain on the other day, walked over to a log, started cutting, and found the rock nicely hidden under a big oak leaf on the ground next to the log. Nuther chain on the "dull nail".


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## nstueve (Dec 23, 2015)

I'd need to see the top plates of the cutters but it looks like they might be tilted down a little or rounded top plate edge from cutting. That needs to be filed off with proper rakers set to .025 +/- .005 depending on wood. My guess is you took a couple strokes off but not enough. 

Keep in mind a file is meant to be used in a single forward stroke, NOT back and fourth. If you run a file back and fourth it ruins the cutting edge and you won't be filing away metal any longer. 

2cents from a hack that doesn't know much.


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## wde_1978 (Dec 23, 2015)

Lots of life left in the used chain!

As others mentioned, clean the gullet out and the teeths top plate look worn and might need filed back more.
Also make sure You are useing the correct file diameter for the chain.

More detailed pictures might help further.


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## MustangMike (Dec 23, 2015)

Plenty of life left in that chain. You are doing something wrong. Also remember, they are for cutting wood, they are not farming implements (don't cut rocks with em).


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## Dropsix (Dec 23, 2015)

Alright here are more photos. It has not hit any rocks whatsoever. Just been cutting through a tandem load of mixed hardwood and sharpening every couple gas tanks with the Stihl 2 in 1 file. 

This file:




More photos:


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## GPX433Todd (Dec 23, 2015)

Appears as if you need to sharpen back your cutters around .030-.040. You have a large rounded over cutting edge.


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## rd35 (Dec 23, 2015)

I agree! That square corner on the tooth MUST BE sharp or the tooth won't take a bite properly. It may "feel" sharp, but if that corner is rounded any at all the tooth won't be able to grab the wood and make chips. I had this problem too until I got myself a magnifying glass. Once I was able to see the rounded corner on the tooth, I was able to adjust my grinder and properly grind my chains. For the first time ever, my chains cut better than a new chain!


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## AKDoug (Dec 23, 2015)

You have rocked the **** out of your chain. It needs to be filed back to the lines in my picture. That leading point needs to be absolutely sharp.


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## Dropsix (Dec 23, 2015)

AKDoug said:


> You have rocked the **** out of your chain. It needs to be filed back to the lines in my picture. That leading point needs to be absolutely sharp.View attachment 472675



Thank you very much! Will give that a shot tomorrow. Thanks everyone for the advice. This forum is the best.


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## lasmacgod (Dec 23, 2015)

It also appears that the rakers on the right hand cutters are much lower than the rakers on the left hand cutters.

Are you filing all the cutters from the same side of the bar, or are you filing the left hand cutters from the right side and the right side cutters from the left side?


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## AKDoug (Dec 23, 2015)

lasmacgod said:


> It also appears that the rakers on the right hand cutters are much lower than the rakers on the left hand cutters.
> 
> Are you filing all the cutters from the same side of the bar, or are you filing the left hand cutters from the right side and the right side cutters from the left side?


That file system he is using should take care of them equally. If tooth length on one side is shorter than the other, than that will make the rakers shorter using that tool.


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## Dropsix (Dec 23, 2015)

lasmacgod said:


> It also appears that the rakers on the right hand cutters are much lower than the rakers on the left hand cutters.
> 
> Are you filing all the cutters from the same side of the bar, or are you filing the left hand cutters from the right side and the right side cutters from the left side?




From the left and right sides.


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## lasmacgod (Dec 23, 2015)

I don't know why, but they just don't look quite right to me for some reason. Probably just my eyes messing with me.


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## Dropsix (Dec 23, 2015)

lasmacgod said:


> I don't know why, but they just don't look quite right to me for some reason. Probably just my eyes messing with me.



You could be right. I'll take a closer look tomorrow.


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## fearofpavement (Dec 23, 2015)

Long story short, that chain is very dull. When it is properly sharpened it will cut as well as it did when new. You need to take a good amount off of it. (this is where a grinder comes in handy...) It can be done with a file but is going to require some effort.


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## MustangMike (Dec 23, 2015)

I agree with Doug, the pics from the top show that the corners are rounded in, so the chain will not feed. It pushes the chain out of the wood and it does not cut.


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## B-N (Dec 23, 2015)

Buy a new file and go at that chain like you hate it. 

Remember, you only file on the push, don't drag it on the way back. I like to have a little brush to clean the metal off the file when I have to clean up a rounded over chain, it will help your file last a little longer.


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## MustangMike (Dec 23, 2015)

You may want to let your shop sharpen that to remove the excess metal, will save you some time. Also, those 12 V hand held sharpeners work very well as long as you replace the sharping stone that comes with them with a diamond stone. They will remove the excess for you a lot faster than by hand.


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## tla100 (Dec 24, 2015)

I usually only take 2-3 strokes to clean up chain. Steady, even pressure. My buddy picked up that Stihl file a while back, he loves it. That is the first time he used a file to sharpen a saw, and he has been in the tree trimming business for 10+ years.....heh. Anyway, worse case, take in to get sharpened and all cutters same length and cleaned up.


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 24, 2015)

So i did see spoons ,like was said you need to go back a ways ,maybe worth paying for a shop to grind it back,by the looks of the bottom of the links that chain was used a while dull ,


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## CR888 (Dec 24, 2015)

Do a google or AS search and download the carlton filing pdf. lt tells you not only how to sharpen chains but all the details regarding chain maintanence. It takes practice and some reading to be good at it. Next time you buy chain ask for a single cutter you can keep as a reference point as to what you need to do to keep chains cutting.


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## Dropsix (Dec 24, 2015)

I guess I was under the assumption that the 2 in 1 file was a complete system. I probably should have done more research. 

I'll look up that Carlton filing pdf as well.


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## MustangMike (Dec 24, 2015)

It is a good system, but it is just designed to sharpen a dull chain. Your chain was either rocked, or not sharpened on a timely basis, and just needs more work.

A lot of people will touch up their chain every 2nd tank of fuel. Sometimes, depending on conditions, a chain will go more or less than that, but keeping your chain sharp will increase your productivity and help your bar & saw & chain last a lot longer.

The sharpening always must go to the outer edge of the corner of the tooth.


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## GPX433Todd (Dec 24, 2015)

Sharp to a point. Like this.


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## duckman (Dec 24, 2015)

look at the nice round radius under the cutting edge in the picture Gypo logger posted and look at yours . looks like that fancy all in one file guide has the file set too high. I had two different guides like that . one cut the rakers way to low and the other did the same thing looks like yours is doing


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## Dropsix (Dec 24, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> It is a good system, but it is just designed to sharpen a dull chain. Your chain was either rocked, or not sharpened on a timely basis, and just needs more work.
> 
> A lot of people will touch up their chain every 2nd tank of fuel. Sometimes, depending on conditions, a chain will go more or less than that, but keeping your chain sharp will increase your productivity and help your bar & saw & chain last a lot longer.
> 
> The sharpening always must go to the outer edge of the corner of the tooth.



Here's the thing though. I sharpened this chain every one to two gas tanks. I never rocked the chain as you say since there are no rocks to do so on. If a log was lying flat on the ground, I cut 3/4's of the way through and then rolled the log over and cut though the rest.

I don't know what else to say really. I thought this Stihl system would do all I needed it to do. It does seem to be leaving out one part of the sharpening process.

Thanks for your advice


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## lasmacgod (Dec 24, 2015)

It could be that the 2-5 strokes every couple tanks wasn't enough to bring it back 100%. After a few or several touch-ups, the issue compounds on itself. As far as "rocking" a chain, it is more a figure of speech, it doesn't actually have to involve proper rocks. Anything harder than the chain will do it, to include sand and/or dirt in the bark.

You might consider semi chisel chain for your next chain. Stays sharp longer and is easier to sharpen.


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## Dropsix (Dec 24, 2015)

lasmacgod said:


> It could be that the 2-5 strokes every couple tanks wasn't enough to bring it back 100%. After a few or several touch-ups, the issue compounds on itself. As far as "rocking" a chain, it is more a figure of speech, it doesn't actually have to involve proper rocks. Anything harder than the chain will do it, to include sand and/or dirt in the bark.
> 
> You might consider semi chisel chain for your next chain. Stays sharp longer and is easier to sharpen.



Got ya. I just went out and tried sharpening again and got the tips sharp as mentioned. I'll sharpen the rest of the chain tomorrow and give it another shot. 

As for the rocking the chain part, then yes, the wood I've been cutting is dirty. Well a lot of it at least. I think you're right in regards to using a semi chisel chain. I'll have to give that a shot.


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## Philbert (Dec 24, 2015)

Dropsix said:


> Here's the thing though. I sharpened this chain every one to two gas tanks. . . . I thought this Stihl system would do all I needed it to do.



This may sound philosophical, but the STIHL tool does not sharpen the chain. You do. 

There are many different tools available to sharpen a chain with: files, guides, grinders, rotary tools, etc. If you know what you want to achieve, you can make any of them work. If you give any of them to a monkey, he may be able to remove metal, but will not end up with a sharpened chain. None of the tools are 'automatic'. None of them sharpen by themselves.

So, start with an understanding of what you want the cutters to look like, then use the tool of your choice to achieve that. Monitor progress to make sure that you are getting what you want. Some guys keep a few links of new, un-used chain to compare their filed chain with.

Philbert


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## Dropsix (Dec 24, 2015)

Philbert said:


> This may sound philosophical, but the STIHL tool does not sharpen the chain. You do.
> 
> There are many different tools available to sharpen a chain with: files, guides, grinders, rotary tools, etc. If you know what you want to achieve, you can make any of them work. If you give any of them to a monkey, he may be able to remove metal, but will not end up with a sharpened chain. None of the tools are 'automatic'. None of them sharpen by themselves.
> 
> ...



That's a good point and I agree. This is new to me so with experience and advice from this forum, I'll learn in no time.


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## MustangMike (Dec 25, 2015)

Dirt/sand in the bark often results in what we refer to as a rocked chain. As previously mentioned, it refers to anything the deforms the corners.

I would not give up on full chisel chain just yet, it does cut noticeably faster than semi chisel when sharp. If there is a dirty side to the log, I will often put the bar in the cut and lift up on the saw to finish the cut after rolling the log. Not trapping the dirt/sand between the bar and the wood helps to keep the chain good for a longer period of time.


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## Dropsix (Dec 25, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Dirt/sand in the bark often results in what we refer to as a rocked chain. As previously mentioned, it refers to anything the deforms the corners.
> 
> I would not give up on full chisel chain just yet, it does cut noticeably faster than semi chisel when sharp. If there is a dirty side to the log, I will often put the bar in the cut and lift up on the saw to finish the cut after rolling the log. Not trapping the dirt/sand between the bar and the wood helps to keep the chain good for a longer period of time.



Cool I'll give that a shot. 

Went out and sharpened the first side of the chain. Looks a lot better and the point is extremely sharp now. 

it's a lot easier when you know and understandstand what you're looking at and where you need it to go.

Thanks guys, merry Christmas!


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## Jimbo209 (Dec 25, 2015)

Are you using a bench vice to hold the bar/& saw
I find adding some paper towel, cloth, leather or something to grip in the vice helps a lot and stops scratching the paint.
Watch The top edge for glint that's not "properly" sharpened

Same BobL but on a Aussie woodworking has said similar here, but found this one
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f132/chain-cutter-glint-104908


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## Dropsix (Dec 26, 2015)

Well, after spending a good amount of time on the chain, I got all the points sharp as hell. Put the chain back on and it cut through the logs like it was nothing.

Thanks for all the help and happy holidays!!


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## fearofpavement (Dec 26, 2015)

Glad you got enough info here to achieve the desired results. And now you know what to do the next time. Congrats on sticking with it until the problem was solved.


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## beaglebriar (Dec 26, 2015)

Since you're cutting dirty logs maybe file every tank or sooner would be better. Your filing looks pretty good to me BTW. Just needed to go a little more as was stated a hundred times before..... Glad you got it working good!!


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## angelo c (Dec 26, 2015)

Dropsix said:


> Well, after spending a good amount of time on the chain, I got all the points sharp as hell. Put the chain back on and it cut through the logs like it was nothing.
> 
> Thanks for all the help and happy holidays!!


Now go teach someone else how to file, and don't be surprised if the guy you teach has been "filing" for years......incorrectly....


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## Dropsix (Dec 26, 2015)

beaglebriar said:


> Since you're cutting dirty logs maybe file every tank or sooner would be better. Your filing looks pretty good to me BTW. Just needed to go a little more as was stated a hundred times before..... Glad you got it working good!!



Yup. Was scared to over do it but turns out I just didn't do it enough based on the type of wood and dirtiness of it.

My angles were correct, it's hard to get it wrong with the Stihl system. Unless you don't do it enough, haha.

Now I am just about done the whole load of wood. If I do it again in a few years, I'll be well prepared!


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## MustangMike (Dec 26, 2015)

We like happy endings!


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## angelo c (Dec 26, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> We like happy endings!



Me wuv you wong time Mr Mike,
You wan happy ending ?


$20


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## Jimbo209 (Dec 28, 2015)

personally with skidded and dragged tuart, jarrah and eucalyptus i would file 3at least 3 goo gard strokes with a normal guide and within a dozen or so tanks used up 40- 50% of the 36RS. I should have had semi chisel


angelo c said:


> Me wuv you wong time Mr Mike,
> You wan happy ending ?
> 
> 
> $20



everything is cheaper over there


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## nk14zp (Dec 28, 2015)

Dropsix said:


> Well, after spending a good amount of time on the chain, I got all the points sharp as hell. Put the chain back on and it cut through the logs like it was nothing.
> 
> Thanks for all the help and happy holidays!!


Rewarding isn't it.


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