# Increasing the power of my splitter



## crowbait (Jun 27, 2007)

I've got a splitter with a 9hp Honda engine. I don't know the gpm of the pump. I think it's a 2.5" cylinder or 3".

I'm splitting large cottonwood chunks, about 20" long. When these chunks get up around 20" in diameter, the ram stalls. I have to then bang the chunk off the wedge, and slab it, rather than go down the middle. (standard 2 way wedge).

My engine bogs down a bit...but far from killing. I'm not a mechanical/hydraulic engineer, but isn't there an adjustment I can make to my valve to increase the power, before it stalls? Something called the "detent" ? 

I'm thinking that if I'm using my engine to its fullest, then when the ram stalls, my engine should bog down to the verge of killing. When my ram stalls, my engine barely bogs down.

So...can someone tell me about some "nut" I'm to turn on the valve that'll increase the pressure before the bypass kicks in?

I know some of you guys know what I'm talking about here....so give me some wisdom.....


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## Frank Boyer (Jun 27, 2007)

crowbait said:


> I've got a splitter with a 9hp Honda engine. I don't know the gpm of the pump. I think it's a 2.5" cylinder or 3".
> 
> I'm splitting large cottonwood chunks, about 20" long. When these chunks get up around 20" in diameter, the ram stalls. I have to then bang the chunk off the wedge, and slab it, rather than go down the middle. (standard 2 way wedge).
> 
> ...



You may be talking about increasing the system working pressure. There is often an adjustment for the system pressure on the control valve. You may have to put shims under a spring or turn a screw with a jamb nut to increase the pressure. Most splitter systems run around 2200 to 2500 psi. The higher the pressure the more heat that you generate and the sooner things wear out. Use a guage and make sure the system is at normal operating temp when you set the pressure. A larger ram is the best way to get more splitting power.


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## crowbait (Jun 27, 2007)

Yes, the builder of my splitter told me there's a nut I can turn on the valve...but I'm not home right now, to look it over.

I figure I want to increase my pressure, to the point of my engine stalling before the wedge stops. Just seems like cottonwood shouldn't be stopping things on me.

I'm wondering if anyone has done this before....how many turns do I give this "nut"....and in which direction?


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## ray benson (Jun 27, 2007)

Some woods like elm and cottonwood will tear or shear on odd grained pieces. Splitter works harder than splitting straight grained oaks and maple. Most control valves have a relief adjustment. No set number of turns for setting up the system pressure. You need a gauge that goes to at least 3000 lbs.And Frank already outlined the procedure.


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## Frank Boyer (Jun 27, 2007)

crowbait said:


> Yes, the builder of my splitter told me there's a nut I can turn on the valve...but I'm not home right now, to look it over.
> 
> I figure I want to increase my pressure, to the point of my engine stalling before the wedge stops. Just seems like cottonwood shouldn't be stopping things on me.
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone has done this before....how many turns do I give this "nut"....and in which direction?




It is a adjustment to set the pressure that is usually done with a guage. The engine, pump, hydraulic tank and ram should be designed to work together. I wouldn't set the pressure over 2500 psi.


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## triptester (Jun 27, 2007)

Without seeing your splitter we can only quess but it sounds like the cylinder is a little small for the wood you are trying to split.
Some control valves have a pressure relief adjustment that will allow you to increase pressure.
To check what bore size your cylinder is measure the outside diameter of the cylinder at about the middle and subtract 3/8" this will give you the approx. bore size. (3 3/8" o.d. = 3" bore ,2 7/8" o.d.= 2 1/2" bore ,4 3/8" o.d. =4" bore)
If this is a factory built splitter a normal combination would be ,9hp engine 16 gpm pump,and 4" or larger bore cylinder.
The larger the cylinder bore the more tonnage.
The more gpm the pump develops the faster the ram moves.
Engine horse power is only relevant to the the pumps rated [email protected] psi usually 3000 psi.. A higher hp. engine than what is required for the pump will NOT increase tonnage.


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## crowbait (Jun 27, 2007)

So, what kind of "gauge" are you guys speaking of, and where does one obtain one?


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## turnkey4099 (Jun 27, 2007)

crowbait said:


> So, what kind of "gauge" are you guys speaking of, and where does one obtain one?



Try a NAPA auto parts store, especially if you are in farming country. Or a heavy equipment dealer.

You need one that reads to 3,000 pounds. 

Do not exceed 3,000 (I wouldn't even go over about 2,700). Blown hoses, fittings are no joke.

The gauge is installed between the ouput of the valve and input of the cylinder, adjust with the splitter stalled. 

Harry K


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## ray benson (Jun 27, 2007)

Here is one style of liquid filled gauges. Probably find them at a farm and fleet , TSC, local hydraulic shops or grainger.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007062710415497&item=21-1637-CA&catname=hydraulic


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## crowbait (Jun 27, 2007)

ok....turns out I have a 4" cylinder, and that my pressure is currently set to 2250.

Will I notice much of a diff, if I go to 2500 or 2700?


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## crowbait (Jun 27, 2007)

turnkey, I take it that the input of the cylinder, is the end oposite of the wedge?


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## triptester (Jun 27, 2007)

crowbait said:


> ok....turns out I have a 4" cylinder, and that my pressure is currently set to 2250.
> 
> Will I notice much of a diff, if I go to 2500 or 2700?



Increasing pressure by 500 psi will gave you an extra 3 tons.


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## crowbait (Jun 27, 2007)

3 more tons, eh?

ok, so if I'm still not happy with that, what's my next upgrade? Do I install a 4.5" cylinder, and higher gpm pump if I desire? Is that the next move?


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## rx7145 (Jun 27, 2007)

Yes a larger ram will give you more "power", but cycle time will go up.


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## crowbait (Jun 27, 2007)

Shouldn't a 3" ram walk right thru Cottonwood?


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## ericjeeper (Jun 27, 2007)

**I got dibs on the piston packing failing*

I wonder if the pressure is bypassing the packing and retuning to the tank.


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## triptester (Jun 27, 2007)

crowbait said:


> 3 more tons, eh?
> 
> ok, so if I'm still not happy with that, what's my next upgrade? Do I install a 4.5" cylinder, and higher gpm pump if I desire? Is that the next move?



Here are for different bore sizes and pressure.

4" bore x 2250 psi =14.1 tons
4" bore x 2750 psi =17.2 tons
4.5" bore x 2250 psi = 17.9 tons
4.5" bore x 2750 psi =21.8 tons
5" bore x 2250 psi =22 tons
5" bore x 2750 psi =27 tons

As you can see these tonnage figures are nowhere near the advertised ratings of splitters on the market because these are actual sustained numbers rather than split second surge numbers for marketing purposes.

The 2-stage pumps used on more than 98% of the log splitters on the market are made by the Haldex group, sold under names like Barnes ,Northern, Speeco, MTE, and many more.


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## Old_School_Nut (Jun 27, 2007)

yeah I agree with the other guys, the 2 ways to increase splitting power without changing the pump and engine is more pressure and or a bigger cylinder. Some pumps like the 2 stage barnes pump can also be adjusted for the low speed kick in. this is a pressure setting like the relief found on most splitters.

I would not play with this setting however unless you know you have an engine with plenty of reserve HP at splitting RPM, doing this should decrease cycle time noticably... but if you feal the engine bogs down to much and a tune up does not help you may need to lower the kick in pressure for the low speed (cyl speed) pump.


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## turnkey4099 (Jun 28, 2007)

crowbait said:


> turnkey, I take it that the input of the cylinder, is the end oposite of the wedge?




Yes. Another point that hasn't been mentioned. The only way (other than screwing down the bypass on the valve) to increase pressure is to go to a bigger cylinder. A bigger pump does not increase pressure, it only pumps more oil and thus decreases cycle time.

Your set up (4" cylinder, 2250 psi) should be sufficient for what you are doing. I suspect a restriction somewhere or possible a leak - by due to worn o-rings or something.

Harry K


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## crowbait (Jun 28, 2007)

Harry, my setup is new...there is no leak.

btw, where is this nut I'm going to screw down? I'm on the road right now, and don't have the splitter in front of me. is it obvious where this nut is? and do I just barely turn it, or do i screw it down several turns?

"Some pumps like the 2 stage barnes pump can also be adjusted for the low speed kick in"

Is that an adjustment on the pump, or the valve?


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## turnkey4099 (Jun 28, 2007)

crowbait said:


> Harry, my setup is new...there is no leak.
> 
> btw, where is this nut I'm going to screw down? I'm on the road right now, and don't have the splitter in front of me. is it obvious where this nut is? and do I just barely turn it, or do i screw it down several turns?
> 
> ...



Usually on the valve. Mine sticks out of the end opposite the handle.

Harry K


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## Old_School_Nut (Jun 29, 2007)

no the adjustment is INTERNAL and thus its in the pump.... the max pressure of the system is typicaly on the valve (some are built right into the pump) but this is a low pressure adjustment to adjust when the "slow but powerfull" pump kicks in...


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## CylinderService (Jul 4, 2007)

Pretty good advice from everyone so far, I think. Especially: use a gauge to reset your pressure relief, which is located on your valve, probably a setscrew covered by a cap nut. If you have 2300 PSI though, that should be good enough to do most spliting with a 4" cylinder. I agree not to use more than 2700. Your cylinder, valve, fittings etc are probably rated at 2500 max. Also, since the pressure is high enough, it isn't leaking past the cylinder piston, or anywhere else. You'd get a lower reading if it were. I certainly don't recommend trying to reset the bypass on your pump. It's only for the low pressure phase, so it won't affect your peak pressure, and you risk putting too much load on the pump shaft (they break easily). 
One thing comes to mind that a friend did to a homemade splitter which only had a 3 1/4" cylinder: he made a sharper wedge. He actually welded an old axe head to the front of his wedge so it made a sharp, small leading edge. It split almost anything after that. Getting the crack started is the hardest part, so making that easier means you can make tougher splits with the same amount of cylinder force.
Other than that, you're limited to using higher pressure, or a larger diameter cylinder.

Good Luck,

Don the Hydraulics Guy


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## STEELHEAD (Jul 19, 2007)

rx7145 said:


> Yes a larger ram will give you more "power", but cycle time will go up.


You will need a gauge to set the press accuratily,.. .If you have an actual 2250 psi, Bump it up To 2750 Read the letters on your hyd hose,... If they are 1 wire they are prob rated at 2500 psi ,..Dont push it past 2750 psi, You can run approx 10 % over without gettin worried ,... Wear saftey gogles,If you exceed Factory settings, Dont be afariad of an explosion , But be care full and protect yourself,.. Hook up the pressure gauge ,2 the but end of the cylinder ,..You will need a tee fitting. You can do it and we are here to help,. E, J,


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## OilHead (Jul 19, 2007)

If your not going to be running into large pieces of this type of wood all the time take a chain saw and notch the top in a cross & go for it you'll have to experment with how deep to go. One other thing I found rather than putting the log splitter wedge full bore on the first split go half way to start it till you get one piece broke out then place the ronnds full wedge.. I bent my wedge ram not the cylinder on same large euc but Iron Oak replaced it free. They didnt want the old one back and am still using it .... :chainsawguy:


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## crowbait (Jul 19, 2007)

I adjusted my pressure screw, on my valve 1/4 turn. The pressure realized was a bit better. It then stalled again, in a small crotch. I turned the screw some more....and then the back of the cylinder broke. The weld, where the back of my cylinder connects to my beam, broke.

So, it's back at the shop...and I'm rebuilding to an entirely new setup:
Here's what I'm going to:


5" cylinder
9hp gas engine (Honda)
and a 5 hp elect motor...yup...both (interchangable via quick connect hydraulic hoses)
28 gal. pumps on both engine and motor
4 way wedge
Full cycle valves. Lock forward, then snap to reverse.
Log lifter capable of lifting 500 lbs.


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## Al Smith (Jul 19, 2007)

If you have a cylinder that is bypassing ,it normally will get hot enough to fry an egg on ,with time.I have one old D4 Cat that will burn the hide off your arm after heavy use of an hour or so.

Unfortunately many lower priced splitters use less than heavy duty cycle cylinders.With a good 4" cylinder and a two stage pump that splitter should be able to shear cottonwood across grain.

I have all the stuff rounded up to build one.5" Parker cylinder,5,000 lb surge rating,steel rings.Parker double pump 3500 lb rating,12 HP electric start Briggs engine.Just a little ambition,couple days welding,cutting,machining,good to go.I've got somewhere between 12 and 15 cords on the ground and I'm a bit too long in the tooth to swing an axe at that much oak.


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## crowbait (Jul 24, 2007)

Al Smith said:


> With a good 4" cylinder and a two stage pump that splitter should be able to shear cottonwood across grain.



Is that a bit of an exaggeration? I mean are you serious that a 4" cylinder should have enuf pressure to do that, and that it's all about the quality of the cylinder? I honestly don't know.


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## ray benson (Jul 25, 2007)

crowbait said:


> So, it's back at the shop...and I'm rebuilding to an entirely new setup:
> Here's what I'm going to:
> 
> 
> ...



28 gpm 2-stage pump needs a 16 hp gas motor.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007072509211499&item=9-4897&catname=hydraulic


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## 046 (Jul 25, 2007)

if your splitter is new... why are you doing this? 

I'd be taking splitter back to builder!



crowbait; said:


> Harry, my setup is new...there is no leak.
> 
> btw, where is this nut I'm going to screw down? I'm on the road right now, and don't have the splitter in front of me. is it obvious where this nut is? and do I just barely turn it, or do i screw it down several turns?
> 
> ...


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## crowbait (Jul 25, 2007)

Thanks Ray. If I have a smaller motor/engine...what will happen? Will the 2nd stage never kick in? Will the engine die while still in stage 1?


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## triptester (Jul 25, 2007)

crowbait said:


> Thanks Ray. If I have a smaller motor/engine...what will happen? Will the 2nd stage never kick in? Will the engine die while still in stage 1?



Depending on hp. both are likely.


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## Al Smith (Jul 25, 2007)

crowbait said:


> Is that a bit of an exaggeration? I mean are you serious that a 4" cylinder should have enuf pressure to do that, and that it's all about the quality of the cylinder? I honestly don't know.


 No,not really.A two stage pump is really just two pumps connected in parrellel on the fast stage,using the discharge of both to move the cylinder.At a preset pressure,usually 6 to 800 pounds the larger of the two stages bypasses to the tank leaving the smaller volume pump to continue to raise the pressure to whatever the relief valve is set at.

Of course how much actual force could be generated is dependent on the final pressure which could vary widely.Yes,in regards to capablities of shearing cross grain.I've seen them shear 12" of red oak,sideways,rarely though.

To the chagrin of many new owners of commercial splitters most are not made up from the heaviest of components.More times than not the cylinders are not really heavy duty,nor are the pumps,frame work,any thing.The old adage holds true,you get what you pay for.


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## 046 (Jul 25, 2007)

if you read through a few of splitter threads. seldom you do see comments that splitter is not powerful enough. 

for example lowest rated splitter from speeco with 4in x 24in 6.5hp briggs, two stage 11gpm puts out more than enough power to split most logs. a few comments about needing several trys for 3ft+ logs. http://www.speeco.com/asp/display.asp?view=top&category=Log+Splitters

my 35 ton speeco has a 6in ram. much rather have a 5in ram for faster cycle times.
yes I can cut cross grain for most logs. but that's pretty much a useless exercise.


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## ray benson (Jul 25, 2007)

crowbait said:


> Thanks Ray. If I have a smaller motor/engine...what will happen? Will the 2nd stage never kick in? Will the engine die while still in stage 1?



Take a look at the performance curves for the 2 stage pumps. It will give you an idea of the HP requirements for each pump.
http://www.hbus.haldex.com/products/documents/hi_lo_pg_rev1203.pdf


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## crowbait (Jul 30, 2007)

Well my elec/gas splitter should be done, by this next weekend.
I'll then see what's gonna happen. With a 5" ram, it seems that it should stall on nothing...assuming the engine/motor is large enuf. True?


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## drmiller100 (Jul 30, 2007)

the only time it will stall is if you fall asleep, and don't land on the handle while you are waiting for it to cycle.


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## sawinredneck (Jul 30, 2007)

TOO MUCH PUMP, NOT ENOUGH HP!!!!!!!!! It's going to be S L O W!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## crowbait (Jul 31, 2007)

Redneck....I made a mistake...my pumps aren't 28gpm, they are 22gpm.
is that better?

Since you said 28gpm will be slow, are you suggesting my 22gpm will be molasses?


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## triptester (Jul 31, 2007)

The 28 gpm pump will have a 8 second cycle time with 24" stroke. The 22 gpm pump will have a 10 second cycle time with the same stroke. Both pumps require a minimum hp. to attain these times. 14 hp. for the 28, 11 hp. for the 22.


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## crowbait (Jul 31, 2007)

If i have a 9hp rather than an 11hp on it, it should still kick into stage 2, to get thru the real tuff logs tho, right?


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## rx7145 (Jul 31, 2007)

crowbait said:


> If i have a 9hp rather than an 11hp on it, it should still kick into stage 2, to get thru the real tuff logs tho, right?



I would think so but you are going to be putting a lot of strain on the engine. If it ends up being too small it is EZ to just put a larger engine on.


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## sawinredneck (Jul 31, 2007)

crowbait said:


> If i have a 9hp rather than an 11hp on it, it should still kick into stage 2, to get thru the real tuff logs tho, right?





TreeCo said:


> No. It would likely stall the engine.



It will stall the engine a lot, as well as trying to run in the second, slower, stage a LOT!!! You NEED MORE POWER, PERIOD!!!!!!!


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## crowbait (Jul 31, 2007)

I agree that it may indeed stall the engine. That's because it'll leave stage 1 around 800 psi, and go into stage 2. To max out the 3000 psi of stage 2, will require a 14hp engine. Without 14hp, the engine will stall. I could either adjust the valve to have it bypass before getting to 3000psi, or I could put on a larger engine. I think I understand.

I think Redneck is wrong however, suggesting that a smaller engine will make it run in stage 2 a lot more than a larger engine.

Stage 2 occurs at 800 psi...regardless of the size engine.

This will be interesting.

You know, almost every splitter I've run, the engines never seem to bog down. That makes me feel that the specs are being very generous when they say how much HP you need. Hopefully 11hp will do me....I don't mind working an engine a little hard, on the tuff logs...but I fully understand I don't want to be working an engine to its max, on every log.

Hopefully it'll be ready by this weekend, and I'll report back.

If any of my logic seems flawed above, I'd love replies.


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## sawinredneck (Jul 31, 2007)

My "flawed logic" comes from the FACT that the engine won't have the power to push the cylinder under small loads, thus causing it to kick into the second stage more often than it should.

But I have been wrong before. I don't jack with it anymore. Overpower it and go!!!!


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## sawinredneck (Aug 1, 2007)

Dan may have the upper hand on this one. I've lost all of my cool links with the computer "upgrade". Do a search on surplus hydraulics, they have a wonderful calculator to figure this.

Also remeber, when it kicks in to the lower stage, it is only running about 1/4 the flow it normally runs (22gpm divided by four = 5.5gpm, lots easier to push), that is the beauty of a two stage setup. more power and faster cycfle times with the smaller motor.


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## crowbait (Aug 1, 2007)

22gpm at 800psi....
hmmmmm

That just doesn't seem like much. I should think a 5 or 6hp engine could do that. Treeco, are you thinking that my engine will bog down, thus declining from 22gpm?


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## crowbait (Aug 1, 2007)

ok guys....i've changed my mind. I just got a good deal on a 13hp Honda engine, so I'm gonna strap that on my new splitter, rather than the 9hp. That's 1 hp shy of the rated 14hp. Better....but is it gonna be enuf?


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## crowbait (Aug 1, 2007)

Hold on...i just re-read what you guys wrote. With a 22gpm pump, I only need an 11hp engine...so I should be golden with the 13hp. Cool....now I feel better.


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## triptester (Aug 1, 2007)

13hp. Honda with 22 gpm 2-stage pump, great combo. You should be well satisfied.


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## ray benson (Aug 1, 2007)

The 22 gpm pump needs at least a 12 hp engine. That 13 hp Honda engine should make a very nice combination.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007080108211595&item=9-4896&catname=hydraulic


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## Al Smith (Aug 1, 2007)

The amount in gallons per minute has nothing to do about shifting the pump into low speed.That valve will shift whenever the pressure hits the setting irregardless of the flow rate.

If the horsepower rating is a few below what it is supposed to it will or could bog the dickens out of the engine,not neccesarily stall it.If this be the case and the transfer setting can be adjusted,do so to a lower setting,say 4 or 5 hundred pounds instead of 800.It just won't cycle as fast but will work.

I've seen splitters that used a straight cutting blade rather than a wedge that worked just dandy at 5 horsepower.The cycle time was fine unless it was splitting old gnarly stuff which of course slowed it down a great deal.


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## Frank Boyer (Aug 1, 2007)

crowbait said:


> Hold on...i just re-read what you guys wrote. With a 22gpm pump, I only need an 11hp engine...so I should be golden with the 13hp. Cool....now I feel better.



You are running at least #12 hose on the pressure side and #16 on the return side.


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## crowbait (Aug 1, 2007)

what do you guys think of that 5hp elec. motor, matched with a 22gpm pump, on the electric side of this splitter?


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## rx7145 (Aug 1, 2007)

From what I have read on this fourm, a 5hp electric is equal to 12.5 gas. Also have found that 2hp electric should be used with a 11gpm pump, A 3hp electric on a 16gpm pump. So a 5hp for a 22 sounds right on to me.


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## ray benson (Aug 1, 2007)

The Surplus Center says it is about a 2 to 1 relationship. So a 5hp electric would be about the same as a 10 hp gas motor.


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## Al Smith (Aug 2, 2007)

crowbait said:


> what do you guys think of that 5hp elec. motor, matched with a 22gpm pump, on the electric side of this splitter?


 I'll let you know in a few days because strange as this sounds I'm going to try it myself.I had a little 3 1/4" baby splitter given to me,last week,minus the engine that uses a single stage pump.It might work as it has a cutter instead of a wedge.The motor is a 3450 rpm single phase which in reality is really only about 2.8 actual HP by the amperage draw.One thing about an electric motor,they always start and you don't run out of gasoline .


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## fast*st (Aug 5, 2007)

I have a similar issue, but its the opposite, I have a splitter, 
home built by someone, it has an 18.5HP Wisconsin THD engine
and a 10gpm vickers pump. The piston has a 2 1/2 rod, 5 1/2 
bore and about a 4' stroke, its slow but mostly unstoppable. 
I'd love to have it be fast and unstoppable. 

My cousin has an 8hp with a dual stage pump, it seems
pretty nice. What size of pump could I spin? Are the 
northern/haldex pumps decent? 

I'd imagine that it would be prudent to upsize all of the hydraulic 
hoses to reduce the restrictive flow. I think they're 3/8 id now and 
would imagine 1/2 - 5/8 would be much better. 

Thanks!

-Jason


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## DWittenbreder (Aug 5, 2007)

*Hyd. pump*

That Wis. could spin a 22 gpm. pump with no problem, just make sure you have a reservoir big enough to handle it...rule of thumb is the tank should be as big (gallons) as the pump (ie. 22 g.p.m.)


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## fast*st (Aug 5, 2007)

Thanks for the info, the tank capacity, is that for cooling? This 
engine has a massive fan on it and blows a tornado, I was thinking
of adding a bypass cooler in the return line and stealing a little 
air from the engine blower shroud. I think my tank capacity is about 
10 gallons at the moment. 

I need to find a local hyd shop to overhaul the ram, its leaking on 
on the end seal a little. 

The ram has some odd fittings on the fluid end, blocks with
what look like 2 pressure regulators that have what looks like 
a relief line going over to the other side. Guessing it might 
be to prevent overload in its original environment. 


-Jason


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## triptester (Aug 5, 2007)

The 18.5 hp. should easily handle a 28 gpm 2-stage pump. Use 3/4" hoses on the high pressure side.


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## fast*st (Aug 6, 2007)

Thanks for the info, was planning to upgrade the hoses to 
3/4 for the pressure lines, and 1" for the suction and 
return. And eliminate as many sharp bends as possible. 

-Jason


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## fast*st (Aug 9, 2007)

Well, have a 28 pump on order, figure to move all the pressure lines to 
3/4 or better, haven't heard from the hydraulic shop on the ram repair yet.

I was looking at my tank, probably an 8 gallon native with the side cut 
out and welded against the I beam to increase the capacity some, 
that I beam must be a doozey of a heat sink all by itself. I'd estimate 
the total to be about 10-11 gallons total for the tank. 

The return fitting is a 3/4 and has a spin on filter

Should I go with 2x spin on filters and a dual return? the suction side
is a 7/8 and will be going up to a minimum 1" or I think I have some 
1 1/4 hydraulic flex line. 

I do have the option of going with a second tank down under the engine, 
good cool spot down low, I could easily squeeze in a 9x18x24 which would 
give about another 15-16 gallons, I can put it almost right under the other 
tank and use a larger drain line to go from the original tank down into the bottom tank then have the pump draw out of the lower tank, this would 
shorten the suction line from 3' down to about 1' 


I suppose another option is to remove the existing tank and just use 1 much
larger one. 

-Jason trollin for ideas


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## fast*st (Aug 16, 2007)

Going to fab a tank from aluminum, should be easy, just got
a call from the hydraulic shop, to overhaul the ram is going 
to cost about $250, but its a 5x48 or such, guess its an older
but high quality piece, Will put up some pictures when things
get moving along.


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 17, 2007)

fast*st said:


> Going to fab a tank from aluminum, should be easy, just got
> a call from the hydraulic shop, to overhaul the ram is going
> to cost about $250, but its a 5x48 or such, guess its an older
> but high quality piece, Will put up some pictures when things
> get moving along.



When you mount the new tank, it should be positioned so that there is no possible way for the pump to suck air. It only takes a few revs running dry to destroy one of those pumps. Best position is higher than the pump.

Harry K


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## fast*st (Aug 17, 2007)

Thanks for the info, as it sits, I think the bottom of the tank will
be about 2 inches below the pump but the fluid level will be 
14 inches above the pump. I'm trying to recall my tank size, 
its around 32x11x16, Aluminum sheet welded on a 1x1 angle 
frame. If I can't find a commercial bung that suits me, I'll 
just make my own. My friend who's good at fabricating 
stuff for Baja says the frame will make it stronger but really 
isn't needed. 

-Jason


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## fast*st (Aug 24, 2007)

Need a suggestion, just got the cyl back from the rebuilder, had 
it freshened up and replace the front packing. 

Remove the protection valves and the holes that go from the 
4 bolt flanges into the piston themselves are only 3/8. 

It doesn't seem like it would be hard to open them up to 1/2-
5/8, One port goes straight down into a hardline that goes 
forward to front of the cyl, and the other goes down, 3/8 hole
into a cross drilled hole into the back of the cyl, it missed the
cross drilled hole by quite a bit too. The web where the 
holes are drilled are easily 1" thick 

Wall thickness of 1/4 inch should be fine, hardline is pretty 
thin but more uniform and the rest of the forging is massive. 

pictures available if anyone wants them posted.


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## fast*st (Nov 3, 2008)

Well, nearing the end of the path, just a few more tweaks!!! woo!

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=80145


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## AKKAMAAN (Nov 3, 2008)

crowbait said:


> 3 more tons, eh?
> 
> ok, so if I'm still not happy with that, what's my next upgrade? Do I install a 4.5" cylinder, and higher gpm pump if I desire? Is that the next move?



make sure your wedge is VERY sharp, and try that before changing cylinder


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## pelhamjeff (Dec 17, 2008)

Evening, gents! I feel the time has come to put a pressure relief valve on my home made splitter. Whenever some daydreaming person runs the piston all the way out or all the way in, either the engine shuts down, or a hose blows, dependent largely on engine speed. I feel bad when either thing happens. So, I wonder where to put it. It would install pretty easy on the inlet of the valve. My biggest dilimna is what make and model to get. I am using a dynex-rivett PF2008-2191 and I cannot find out what kind of pressure it is capable of. I found a chart that says it's a 6-piston pump and that each piston moves 1 GPM at 1800 RPM. I probably spin mine a little faster than that-maybe 2400. I certainly dont rev it to 3600. The point is, I am looking at a prince valve on which the max pressure is 2500. What is the chance that I am making more pressure than that? Has anyone heard of a control valve that doesn't have a relief valve? Because I cant find one on mine. Am I the only one without a gauge on the pressure hose?


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## pelhamjeff (Dec 17, 2008)

I sure didn't mean to stick this on an old post! Sorry!


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## pelhamjeff (Dec 17, 2008)

Is there any way I can make this into a new thread now that I submitted it as a response?


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## sawinredneck (Dec 17, 2008)

No, you could start a new thread asking the same question, but you will get a reply here.

If it were me, I would put it on the inlet line to the control valve and adjust it accordingly. But thats me.


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## AKKAMAAN (Dec 17, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> No, you could start a new thread asking the same question, but you will get a reply here.
> 
> If it were me, I would put it on the inlet line to the control valve and adjust it accordingly. But thats me.



A pressure relief valve is a "PUMP PROTECTION" valve and have to be installed after the pump but before anything else (operation valve). Inlet to control valve is great. 

Your Dynex pump is rated for 5000psi constant pressure and 6000psi intermittent. Thats a heck of a pump you have. No cheap stuff. At 1800rpm it shoots 5.8 gpm. Maximum speed is 2400rpm, which will give you about 7.5 gpm.

http://www.dynexhydraulics.com/cbfix.htm

I would be very cautius about pressure setting on your relief valve. Your weakest point in system is what set your pressure. that could possibly be your control valve, or the cylinder. Hoses could be upgraded....
Components for logsplitters are usually cheap, and rarely rated over 3000psi.
DON'T set pressure over 3000psi. Do some research about your control valve and cylinder, I can help if you post some data.
If you plan to change control valve I strongly recommend this Prince valve.
http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/catalog/ValvesLsRd25.pdf
MODEL LSR-3060 RAPID EXTEND LOG SPLITTER VALVE, it's rated 3000psi and 4gpm inlet flow. But it's worth a try, if you get excessive heat, slow down pump to 1500rpm. You'll still having a blast with that valve.
It has a 4th position for a fast speed. It's a REGENERATIVE function. Work much better than a two stage pump. Give me your cylinder dimensions, like bore diam, rod diam and stroke, and I'll calculate the speeds you can expect.


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## pelhamjeff (Dec 17, 2008)

Sounds like a pretty serious valve that might solve my problems. Not sure I understand the regenerative thing though. And it seems like the 4 GPM inlet rating might be a restriction. Sure wish I knew how to post pictures of the valve I am currently using. Thanks for the link, I may indeed get that valve.


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## AKKAMAAN (Dec 17, 2008)

pelhamjeff said:


> Sounds like a pretty serious valve that might solve my problems. Not sure I understand the regenerative thing though. And it seems like the 4 GPM inlet rating might be a restriction. Sure wish I knew how to post pictures of the valve I am currently using. Thanks for the link, I may indeed get that valve.



The regenerative valve take the oil from the rodside and send it back to the cap side along with the pump flow. The rod cross area will be the net extract area. So the fast speed and force will be like a cylinder with a bore like the piston rod. Retract will be just normal. 
example:
a 5" bore with a 2" rod will 5*5 divided with 2*2, 25/4, 6.25 times faster on fast speed, but only 1/6.25 of the force.
These numbers are nominal and don't concider delta p (pressure) losses 

If you want to get better performance, you can get a separate REGENERATIVE valve, that can handle higher flows with out losses. That one is automatic, pressure sensitive, and installs between the operational valve and the cylinder, just use your old valve. read more on this pdf


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## fast*st (Dec 18, 2008)

Yeah, relief valve is a great idea and really a must. Both valves I've picked up from NorthernTool have had built in relief valves set at around 2000 psi 

A control valve with the relief built in that fits your current configuration would be the least expensive option, the price on getting hoses has gone way up over the past couple years. 

As to posting pictures, you can put up digital pictures on photobucket or flickr or any number of sites then just use the link button at the top of the winder here. 

-Jason


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## CylinderService (Dec 18, 2008)

There are a few valves out there without reliefs. If you have a relief it would be on the inlet side usually, and obvious.
We have separate reliefs for up to 3000 PSI, at ordinary prices. Higher pressures usually cost a lot more. Your pump could go well over 3000 if you needed it, but of course the pump doesn't have a relief either. But if you're getting a new valve, you'll get a relief at the same time.
The LSR regen valve recommended would be great for you if you can reduce the flow a little (our part # is 20-3060 and we have them in stock). It really doesn't like more than 4 GPM incoming - the regen flow gets up to 25 GPM which is as much as the valve porting can handle. It has a relief in it and can handle 3000 PSI, but I think that's a little high for every day. I recommend 2500.

[email protected]


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