# Chainsaws on AxMen? You're Kidding Me?



## Woodcutteranon

Wow! I have asked in the past... and now I received. Last night's episode, 3-14-2010, I saw an actual chainsaw...and get this...it was running!!! And, what's more...I saw a tree being felled...and limbed!...with a chainsaw!!!

Whoo Hoo..

The 2 stroke Gods have smiled on us all!:greenchainsaw:


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## chucker

*hummmmmmmm??*

LOL we sure did ! BUTT, was'nt the "PHATT AZZ" using a wildthing??


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## freesaw

*job description*

Might just be me, but if i was gonna hire someone to work anywhere around a logging site I would make sure that they could at least START a chainsaw. then again companys hire customer service reps. that cant even speak the same language.


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## red87chevy

I don't know about any of you guys, but if i hired someone that couldn't unhook cables right or have any motivation whatsoever or common sense i sure as hell wouldn't have given him a 880 to learn how to cut with right off of the bat!!!! I was really feeling bad for the saw, i would offer to adopt that saw to take it away from a environment of no common sense.


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## woodgrenade

Looked like a 460 to me. With Gabe yielding a 441.


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## chucker

which either it was ? it was in bad hands for a greenhorn or a table muscle blowhard!! looked like a 460 though.............


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## Ramblewood

Did anyone think Gabe put a face cut 3/4 tree width in one of the trees he was cutting ? I played it back a couple of times and it looked pretty weird to me . Is there a reason to put that big a notch in a tree ?


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## logging22

Ramblewood said:


> Did anyone think Gabe put a face cut 3/4 tree width in one of the trees he was cutting ? I played it back a couple of times and it looked pretty weird to me . Is there a reason to put that big a notch in a tree ?



Gotta make it look good for the viewer.


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## Ramblewood

Seems like a good way to end up wearing it as a hat !


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## labrax

The way that the 'greenhorn' acted with the chainsaw was ridiculous - my wife and I were watching and she even remarked that guy has no clue how to start that thing. If the guy truly did not know how to operate that saw - why the heck didn't Gabe give him a little instruction - before allowing him to head out on that log and potentially get hurt. That guy is a crappy boss - but everyone can see that. Less smirking and rolling his eyes at the camera and more instruction to the rookie would paint that outfit in some sort of positive light.


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## chevytaHOE5674

My guess is the shows producers staged the greenhorn not being able to start the saw. Adds to the drama.


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## dumbarky

*Funny I was thinking same thing*

I dvr all my shows I like and was catching up last night watching American Loggers. I actually saw a running chainsaw. But alas they were using it to take out a wooden bridge and replace it. Then exciting enough they used it to trim timbers for the new bridge. I think I've watched every episode since it started and that was first time I seen a saw running. I gave up on AX Men. I think they should rename it "Men Behaving Badly", but that's already taken. IMO


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## dumbarky

Ramblewood said:


> Is there a reason to put that big a notch in a tree ?



Yes, Ratings. LOL

I'm fixin to quit watchin American Loggers too.


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## Pain Cow

I tried to watch the logging shows. It seems like they're all either obese loudmouths or meth heads. If they bought an ms390 maybe they'd get something done.


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## Curlycherry1

One thing that always amazed me is that they always show them starting the saw with it off the ground. Now for an experienced operator that is a cake walk, but if the guy is at all not experienced or the saw is at all hard to start then that method sucks. It makes life very difficult.

It is much easier, especially for anyone that is not very experienced to set the saw down, get a good grip on it and then yank with reckless abandon.

I guess they are going for the macho thing of showing how an experienced logger does it, but it is a quick way to look like a fool.

Me, unless the saw is warmed up I leave them on the ground, and of course I always skip using the decompression valve 'cause I am a real man.


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## Cummins00

Maybe we are being a little too hard on the boy. Not like many of us got any formal training whatsoever runnin saw. You can learn a lot about the basics by watching someone who knows what they are doing. When I was a lad my grandpa used to bring me to work with him every weekend or after school, after a couple years of watching him and at the tender age of 8 I first got a chance to put what i've seen into action. What did I do? Got it bound up in a hemlock that didn't even have any pressure on it. This stuff is trail and error, unfortunately sometimes the errors aren't so forgiving but you gotta start somewhere. I give him props for trying even if he didn't know what he was doing, especially since he knew he was being filmed and judged by the boss.


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## Curlycherry1

Cummins00 is right, I recently go to watch a newbie start up from ground zero and there is a lot to learn. I saw him make all the classic mistakes with getting pinched and he is not a dull boy. He knows about stress and strain of wood but when the bar hit the wood, there were plenty of times where the trees taught him that they were the ones in control at certain times and he was just a newbie. He has gotten much better, but still, he is learning everyday just like I am.


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## Ramblewood

I wouldn't be surprised if the bar pinches were scripted as was Gabe's stupid reaction . Same with the wedge breaking .


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## stihlaficionado

Having worked in the contruction industry for many years I can say that all the newbies(including myself at some point) hired were never allowed to handle vital equipment w/o instruction, and usually with an overseer for the first couple weeks. I cannot believe that with all the OSHA regs & workman comp rates being as high as they are, that a new man would be allowed to handle/use a chainsaw w/o first making sure he knew how it operated.

So I can only assume that all the theatrics on Axe Men is for the ratings.

I have been using saws for upwards of 20 years & every now & then I still
manage to scare the hell out of myself with a close one. So giving a saw
to someone who can barely start it correctly isn't good business.


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## Jkebxjunke

hey guys... I am thinking that it was staged too... if you remember a few episodes back he did start the saw on the landing and started bucking the limbs off.... he didnt seem to have much of a problem there... and if you look at the saw manual I believe the proper way is to start it on the ground and not drop starting.. unless there is another manual I don't know about. I wonder if they have a stunt man for him?
but then did you see that gabe did pay him a compliment? maybe the kid is nervous too with the cameras... and maybe those pinches were the only ones.. and there were 50 other good cuts? ( which ironically were cut)


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## Cummins00

I've seen plenty of greenhorns handed saws and told to buck logs, cut limbs, and the like with little or no instruction. Most of the time it's;

BOSS: Ever run saw before
GREENHORN: Nope
BOSS: Well now's a good as a time as any to learn, go grab that 44 and buck off those ends to length

These bosses weren't the Ryggard type either; they were respectable, fair, and safety conscious. It's just the way things are done most of the time in the woods - you aren't babied, you try, you fail and then you learn. Sometimes with added instruction after you do inevitably fail.


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## Cummins00

Jkebxjunke said:


> hey guys... I am thinking that it was staged too... if you remember a few episodes back he did start the saw on the landing and started bucking the limbs off.... he didnt seem to have much of a problem there... and if you look at the saw manual I believe the proper way is to start it on the ground and not drop starting.. unless there is another manual I don't know about. I wonder if they have a stunt man for him?
> but then did you see that gabe did pay him a compliment? maybe the kid is nervous too with the cameras... and maybe those pinches were the only ones.. and there were 50 other good cuts? ( which ironically were cut)



I've taken chainsaw certification classes and all that fun stuff in order to satisfy the federal government regulations to contract fall for them. In such classes they say that the only way to start a saw safely is on the ground with the chain brake engaged, or clinched between your legs. All the other ways like drop starting that 95% of us use are "incorrect". Dave did say he ran saw in a previous episode but you can tell by the way he angle cut his knots in reverse that he isn't THAT experienced. Even so, everyone does have a bad day now and again


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## Jkebxjunke

Cummins00 said:


> I've taken chainsaw certification classes and all that fun stuff in order to satisfy the federal government regulations to contract fall for them. In such classes they say that the only way to start a saw safely is on the ground with the chain brake engaged, or clinched between your legs. All the other ways like drop starting that 95% of us use are "incorrect". Dave did say he ran saw in a previous episode but you can tell by the way he angle cut his knots in reverse that he isn't THAT experienced. *Even so, everyone does have a bad day now and again *



yeah I can identify.. I still pinch the bar too... you think you are reading a limb right.. and grunk... the tree lets you know who is boss


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## stihlaficionado

Cummins00 said:


> I've seen plenty of greenhorns handed saws and told to buck logs, cut limbs, and the like with little or no instruction. Most of the time it's;
> 
> BOSS: Ever run saw before
> GREENHORN: Nope
> BOSS: Well now's a good as a time as any to learn, go grab that 44 and buck off those ends to length
> 
> These bosses weren't the Ryggard type either; they were respectable, fair, and safety conscious. It's just the way things are done most of the time in the woods - you aren't babied, you try, you fail and then you learn. Sometimes with added instruction after you do inevitably fail.



Probably a very good thing that I never tried logging as a profession.
It took me many weeks before I was comfortable using a brick saw, even with someone standing over my shoulder. And I still managed to 
mishandle a cut & nick my upper thumb on the blade. I'll take a chainsaw anyday to a whirling brick saw


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## chevytaHOE5674

Ramblewood said:


> Same with the wedge breaking .



I loved Gabe's reaction to the wedge breaking. They are plastic wedges, after use and abuse they get brittle and break. There is a reason they are cheap and made of plastic. I go through them like a kid goes through candy on Halloween. 

If you want one that won't break off them get a good ole steel wedge and pound away. Just don't get the chain near it.


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## Ramblewood

I have used the cast aluminium ones when I had to drive wedges in hardwood and they don't ruin the chain although you will have to file a little if you hit one .


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## CTSawTech

I was laughing pretty hard about how he kept getting the saw pinched while limbing that tree.

Even I can can limb faster than him with my 46cc Poulan. And I am not a pro logger or tree cutter.

Maybe he was scared of the saw that he was given to use, I know as a newbie I don't think I would be too comfortable using a 460, 441 or 880 for limbing.

Full of drama and laughs, but isn't that what draws us in?


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## Ramblewood

How about the scene where the kid is filing the saw ! If he can't start it, I doubt he can sharpen it .


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## cassandrasdaddy

*old man browning*

just watched him take out a widowmaker leaner. along with 5 other trees . made it look easy and almost safe. that old dog knows a thing or 2.


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## Grateful11

Ramblewood said:


> Did anyone think Gabe put a face cut 3/4 tree width in one of the trees he was cutting ? I played it back a couple of times and it looked pretty weird to me . Is there a reason to put that big a notch in a tree ?



Yep! I noticed that right off, I was like WT?


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## Ramblewood

With a slice that big, maybe he thought it was a pie .


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## Greg373

labrax said:


> The way that the 'greenhorn' acted with the chainsaw was ridiculous - my wife and I were watching and she even remarked that guy has no clue how to start that thing. If the guy truly did not know how to operate that saw - why the heck didn't Gabe give him a little instruction - before allowing him to head out on that log and potentially get hurt. That guy is a crappy boss - but everyone can see that. Less smirking and rolling his eyes at the camera and more instruction to the rookie would paint that outfit in some sort of positive light.


:agree2:


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## woodgrenade

There was a gang of 660's on there tonight from coast to coast. Not as much sawing action as I would have liked, but better than nothing I guess.


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## Jkebxjunke

cassandrasdaddy said:


> just watched him take out a widowmaker leaner. along with 5 other trees . made it look easy and almost safe. that old dog knows a thing or 2.



yup.. I agree....


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## Grateful11

"Originally Posted by cassandrasdaddy 
just watched him take out a widowmaker leaner. along with 5 other trees . made it look easy and almost safe. that old dog knows a thing or 2."

"yup.. I agree...."

but you're talking about Browning not Gabe. I saw him do that too a season or so ago.


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## manonaputer

can you imagine the stress felt not only having an azz of a boss over your shoulder saying you cant do a thing right...but also to have a camera crew there too and knowing it'll be on national tv? i have never been a pro logger and never will...and im positive if i had a boss like gabe and a camera crew there all the time id mess up a lot aswell with the chain saw...heck, after 25 or so years of cutting firewood, i still pinch a bar now and then, and have limbs fall over me cause of the way they lean and it's easier than moving to the other side of the tree.i think his newly gained cockyness it scripted..


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## logging22

Gabe is complete tool.


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## fatjoe

Curlycherry1 said:


> One thing that always amazed me is that they always show them starting the saw with it off the ground. Now for an experienced operator that is a cake walk, but if the guy is at all not experienced or the saw is at all hard to start then that method sucks. It makes life very difficult.
> 
> It is much easier, especially for anyone that is not very experienced to set the saw down, get a good grip on it and then yank with reckless abandon.
> 
> I guess they are going for the macho thing of showing how an experienced logger does it, but it is a quick way to look like a fool.
> 
> Me, unless the saw is warmed up I leave them on the ground, and of course I always skip using the decompression valve 'cause I am a real man.



Actually, Starting off the ground is easier as you use the saws weight to start it.Your actually throwing the saw towards the ground and holding the pull tee and letting the saws downward motion start the saw. For me,( and I do have an 044 without a decompression valve) it`s much easier to start a saw (cold or hot) in the air.Just my opinion.


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## fatjoe

manonaputer said:


> can you imagine the stress felt not only having an azz of a boss over your shoulder saying you cant do a thing right...but also to have a camera crew there too and knowing it'll be on national tv? i have never been a pro logger and never will...and im positive if i had a boss like gabe and a camera crew there all the time id mess up a lot aswell with the chain saw...heck, after 25 or so years of cutting firewood, i still pinch a bar now and then, and have limbs fall over me cause of the way they lean and it's easier than moving to the other side of the tree.i think his newly gained cockyness it scripted..



Totally agree. There is definately a better way to get them motivated.I`ve said it before, I wouldn`t last a half day working with some of them dudes.Miserable, all of them.For the $10.00 bucks an hour their getting paid, I`de rather rake leaves or paint a house.Everyone still pinches their bar now and then.Whoever says they don`t, is lying.


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## Curlycherry1

fatjoe said:


> Actually, Starting off the ground is easier as you use the saws weight to start it.Your actually throwing the saw towards the ground and holding the pull tee and letting the saws downward motion start the saw. For me,( and I do have an 044 without a decompression valve) it`s much easier to start a saw (cold or hot) in the air.Just my opinion.



Back in the old days saws did not come with decompression valves. My old Homelite 925s never had them and my 30 year old 051 does not have one. Sure the drop and pull method works but it can lead to problems. I watched a guy do it and his hand was on the trigger and the tip on a log. He flinched as the saw took off and it came back off the log and cut his shin and top of his foot wide open. My brother started a saw once with the drop method and somehow he swung it around just after it started and it nipped the back of his leg to the tune of 25 stiches. The blade was just barely moving but it was enough to get him.

Me, I leave them on the ground and maintain control and when everything is idling fine and the chain is not moving, then I pick them up and get to work.


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## Ramblewood

I'm teaching myself to engage the chainbrake before I start up . I started running old Homelites before brakes came along and have ignored the ones on my modern Stihls for years . I now use them to start up and feel comfortable using the drop method with my new 441 . I use it when I am moving from log to log and hope it becomes second nature soon . I still have to think about it and forget once in a while . It's a good habit to get into .


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## 2dogs

stihlaficionado said:


> Having worked in the contruction industry for many years I can say that all the newbies(including myself at some point) hired were never allowed to handle vital equipment w/o instruction, and usually with an overseer for the first couple weeks. I cannot believe that with all the OSHA regs & workman comp rates being as high as they are, that a new man would be allowed to handle/use a chainsaw w/o first making sure he knew how it operated.
> 
> So I can only assume that all the theatrics on Axe Men is for the ratings.
> 
> I have been using saws for upwards of 20 years & every now & then I still
> manage to scare the hell out of myself with a close one. So giving a saw
> to someone who can barely start it correctly isn't good business.



I would not be surprised if we read that OSHA pays a visit to Rygaard after the season is over. It "looks" as if the new employees were not given proper instruction in the use of their issued tools but that may just be a product of editing. I can tell you with CalOSHA we (The fire dept) were prohibited from placing any tool in service without proper instruction and access to the instruction manual. Sometimes the training was simple such as when we switched to a better flashlight. Other times such as when I bought 6 new 046s to replace the old Stihls and Homelites the training was thorough and costly. I had to train about 45 people on the new saws.

Re starting the saw I almost always start a big cold saw on the ground. After it is warm then I switch to right hand on the rear handle and pull with the left hand. The right hand pushes forward while the left pulls back. Other times i start the saw by locking the rear handle with my right thigh/knee and hold the front handlebar with my left hand and pull with the right. This method works great when I am in tall grass or in water. I engage the chain brake too.

I do NOT like the drop start method of holding the front handlebar with the left hand and droping the saw while pulling with the right hand. In fact I do not allow any employee to use this method when I am in charge of them. If the brake is not engaged the chain is spinning without control of the brake or the throttle. Centrifugal force causes the entire saw to rotate to the left with no control. Not a good method.


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## Woodcutteranon

I thought last night's show, 3-21-2010 was by far the best chainsaw action seen this year. You Stihl guys should have loved it. Did you see Swamp Man running that saw in the water? I loved the 5-pin widow maker takedown too.

AxeMen is back on my good side after last night.


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## Jkebxjunke

Woodcutteranon said:


> I thought last night's show, 3-21-2010 was by far the best chainsaw action seen this year. You Stihl guys should have loved it. Did you see Swamp Man running that saw in the water? I loved the 5-pin widow maker takedown too.
> 
> AxeMen is back on my good side after last night.



I dont think I would want to go bowling against Jay.. LOL


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## fatjoe

Curlycherry1 said:


> Back in the old days saws did not come with decompression valves. My old Homelite 925s never had them and my 30 year old 051 does not have one. Sure the drop and pull method works but it can lead to problems. I watched a guy do it and his hand was on the trigger and the tip on a log. He flinched as the saw took off and it came back off the log and cut his shin and top of his foot wide open. My brother started a saw once with the drop method and somehow he swung it around just after it started and it nipped the back of his leg to the tune of 25 stiches. The blade was just barely moving but it was enough to get him.
> 
> Me, I leave them on the ground and maintain control and when everything is idling fine and the chain is not moving, then I pick them up and get to work.



Must just be me, but anybody I ever worked with or for would chew me a new ass for even putting it on the ground to start it.I`ve been around some of the best loggers in my part of the state and time is money.If anybody ever used that method in an ten hour day, they would be laughed out of the woods.And it`s not a "mocho" thing, it`s a time thing.That being said, I know safety wise it`s the proper and safe thing to do.There`s also two methods of that start.By the rear handle, and by the top handle.I`ve only ever used a chainsaw in work related scinerios,where I was getting paid to keep the saw running..I was taught that way many years ago and I never had problem with it.I tried starting the saw on the ground and It`s very awkward to me.Also, years ago,sometimes you had to hold the saw full throttle to get it going.I learned that way when I was 12, and its worked for me.Plus, my feet are so big, sometimes with Sorrels(snow boots) and snowfall you can`t use the ground start, it`s just not practical.Usually, in deep snow, the only place to put you stuff is on stumps, or downed trees.When there`s two feet of snow, your not gonna ground start your saw.


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## Curlycherry1

fatjoe said:


> When there`s two feet of snow, your not gonna ground start your saw.



I sure did.  I but in upstate NY in the heavy snow belt area and I never had a problem. I needed a place to gas up so skuffing the snow out of the way was just second nature and part of the job.

To me the saw is on the ground at the time it is gassed up, so I just flip the switch and pull and then go. As I said earlier in a post, I saw people get hurt drop starting, I have never seen or even heard of an accident happening as a result of a saw being started on the ground.

The new choke position where the saw will take off seems like would be a problem for drop starting. If the saw is on that position when it gets started it is going to rev to full throttle. 

Don't get me wrong, I drop start all my saws once in a while, but when ever I do it I think of the time I had to drive my brother 30+miles to the hospital to get him stitched up and all the blood he got in my car's front seat.


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## Ramblewood

Here in Upstate NY, I was felling trees on snowshoes two weeks ago . You just stomp around to make a work space for your stuff . Hard to start on the ground w/snowshoes but using the chainbrake and keeping the rear handle between your legs makes a pretty safe starting method .


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## Curlycherry1

Ramblewood said:


> Here in Upstate NY, I was felling trees on snowshoes two weeks ago . You just stomp around to make a work space for your stuff . Hard to start on the ground w/snowshoes but using the chainbrake and keeping the rear handle between your legs makes a pretty safe starting method .



I too did the snowshoe gig up in Oswego county many years in a row. One year I pushed ~2' of fluffy snow out from around each tree that I dropped and was standing on solid snow below that. In the spring I had to go back and take ~36-40" of stump off of each of those trees that I cut because they were too high. I got two 18" hunks of firewood off of many of the stumps. 

A logging outfit next to me on that contract had to bring in dozers to move snow out of the way so they could get their skidders to move. They pushed snow for about two weeks before they started skidding.


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## Ramblewood

I like the snow for skidding - keeps the logs clean and they slide easy . Now it's mud season and we have to wait a while . Good time for cutting up and splitting firewood logs .


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## Curlycherry1

Ramblewood said:


> I like the snow for skidding - keeps the logs clean and they slide easy . Now it's mud season and we have to wait a while . Good time for cutting up and splitting firewood logs .



Yep my brother told me Sunday that it was time to shut off the Timberwolf processor until the yard dries out. He will have about 3 weeks of down time before he can get back to processing.


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## Ramblewood

We do our personal firewood w/chainsaw and splitter although I like to play with my fantastic Gransfors - Bruks splitting maul on the straight grain stuff when it's nice out and I'm working alone . It splits faster than a gas splitter; never gets stuck, gives me a bit of a workout and is just plain fun to use . Hands down the best splitting tool I have ever seen . It has a steel collar below the head so you don't ruin the handle and is sharp enough to shave the hair on my arm . Worth the $100.00 . Two face cords an hour in maple/cherry is no problem .
We have had warm and sunny weather for a couple of weeks and the firewood logs are still frozen together especially the bottom of the pile .


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## fatjoe

*Depends on the situation*



Curlycherry1 said:


> I sure did.  I but in upstate NY in the heavy snow belt area and I never had a problem. I needed a place to gas up so skuffing the snow out of the way was just second nature and part of the job.
> 
> To me the saw is on the ground at the time it is gassed up, so I just flip the switch and pull and then go. As I said earlier in a post, I saw people get hurt drop starting, I have never seen or even heard of an accident happening as a result of a saw being started on the ground.
> 
> The new choke position where the saw will take off seems like would be a problem for drop starting. If the saw is on that position when it gets started it is going to rev to full throttle.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I drop start all my saws once in a while, but when ever I do it I think of the time I had to drive my brother 30+miles to the hospital to get him stitched up and all the blood he got in my car's front seat.



It all depends on the situation.What about brush, rocks, and nasty prickers?Your not going to be productive as you can in the woods ground starting your saw every time.Do you walk everywhere with the saw running.I`m not saying it`s right, or it`s safe,But if your in a nasty bunch of sh**, and need to lob it, it`s just not practical.Why take the time to put the saw on the ground, when you can be moving and starting the saw at the same time.I`ll say it again, It may not be safe, but time is money.Now if your out there recreational cutting and time doesn`t matter, then by all means, flatten the area out and set up camp.Things have changed alot since I worked in the woods.Most guys, from what I can see use machines now to take the wood.When I worked in the woods, every second counted.You had to be fast! Safe or not.Bad habits are hard to break.Until recently, I wouldn`t use a gas splitter to do my firewood.A maul was much faster.I`m getting older now and speed isn`t so important anymore.I started my saw yesterday, and I drop started it.I just wanted to hear it run.(recently rebuilt it)It never even entered my mind to put it on the ground.It never will.Hard to teach an old dog new tricks.


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## Curlycherry1

fatjoe said:


> It all depends on the situation.What about brush, rocks, and nasty prickers? Do you walk everywhere with the saw running.I`m not saying it`s right, or it`s safe,But if your in a nasty bunch of sh**, and need to lob it, it`s just not practical.



Back when I was in the woods I was a firewood cutter producing 600-800 face cords per year. Brush and prickers were quickly dealt with by chomping my way in with the saw. I used to get some nasty contracts where once the tree was dropped, just seeing the top of it through the brush and gunk was a chore. So I would wade in and limb and slash my way to where the wood was ~4" and cut off the top. I skidded to small landings in the woods and blocked there.

I almost never shut my saw off, even when getting blocks out of the way. As you said time is money and if I was not dropping a tree or blocking it up, I was wasting money in the woods. About 30-50% of my time I was cutting on snow and a wet saw is not always happy, especially at low temps. So it was gas up, start up and keep going until the saw or I ran out of gas. A properly idling saw sitting on the ground poses no danger, and that was back in the day before chain brakes. A chain brake makes any idling saw safe as a butterfly, other than the hot muffler. Also as I said when I was cutting firewood to put myself through school I was using big saws with no decomp valves. Drop starting a cold one of those would have been an effort in futility and bruses. The compression on my 051 to this day (30 year old saw) is high enough that when cold I need both hands to pull the rope on that beast (~25# saw with the bar ). They don't build them like that anymore, which is probably a good thing.

I think back to the days when hockey players and baseball players considered it un-macho to wear helmets. It took about 15-20 of them being vegetables before people started to say macho is one thing, but alive and smart is better.


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## fatjoe

Curlycherry1 said:


> Back when I was in the woods I was a firewood cutter producing 600-800 face cords per year. Brush and prickers were quickly dealt with by chomping my way in with the saw. I used to get some nasty contracts where once the tree was dropped, just seeing the top of it through the brush and gunk was a chore. So I would wade in and limb and slash my way to where the wood was ~4" and cut off the top. I skidded to small landings in the woods and blocked there.
> 
> I almost never shut my saw off, even when getting blocks out of the way. As you said time is money and if I was not dropping a tree or blocking it up, I was wasting money in the woods. About 30-50% of my time I was cutting on snow and a wet saw is not always happy, especially at low temps. So it was gas up, start up and keep going until the saw or I ran out of gas. A properly idling saw sitting on the ground poses no danger, and that was back in the day before chain brakes. A chain brake makes any idling saw safe as a butterfly, other than the hot muffler. Also as I said when I was cutting firewood to put myself through school I was using big saws with no decomp valves. Drop starting a cold one of those would have been an effort in futility and bruses. The compression on my 051 to this day (30 year old saw) is high enough that when cold I need both hands to pull the rope on that beast (~25# saw with the bar ). They don't build them like that anymore, which is probably a good thing.
> 
> I think back to the days when hockey players and baseball players considered it un-macho to wear helmets. It took about 15-20 of them being vegetables before people started to say macho is one thing, but alive and smart is better.


Here we go with the mocho thing again.There is no reason to walk through tough terrain with a running saw.Especially if there is no chain break.And as far as face cords.We were doing 20-30 cords a day with a small 208 skidder.that was before we found out logging was more profitable.This was in the late 70`s and early 80`s.I`m not gonna continue to go around and around about who`s is bigger our stonger.I know where I`ve been and what I`ve done.The only time I`ve ever seen or been hurt logging was when a pine spear pierced my brothers hand after dropping a big pine.He didn`t get out of the "zone" fast enough.He got 16 stiches from that.To this day,I`ve never cut myself and neither has my brother who still logs after 40 years.The only cuts have been from sharpening a saw.I worked throughout the eighties and into the early ninties working for different loggers.I stopped logging after taking a job running dozer in the mid 90`s.I started doing firewood then for myself.I don`t log anymore, but do cut 8-10 cord a year for myself.I do know in the very beginning we were using homelites, then swithched to husky`s and then lastly Stihl`s.I currently have an 044 without a decom valve, which I drop start. I`m not gonna do this anymore.I know how to start my saw and don`t have to get on the ground to do it.It doesn`t mean it`s better, it`s the way I`ve done it for 30 years, and the way I`ll continue to do it.


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## Curlycherry1

How do all chainsaw manufacturers instruct the operators to start a saw? Case closed.

As for never having an accident. I was in the woods one day with a skidder operator that had over 30 years of logging experience and zero accidents, Never so much as a deep cut. A 4" tree crushed his skull and he left 7 kids without a dad.


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## fatjoe

Curlycherry1 said:


> How do all chainsaw manufacturers instruct the operators to start a saw? Case closed.
> 
> As for never having an accident. I was in the woods one day with a skidder operator that had over 30 years of logging experience and zero accidents, Never so much as a deep cut. A 4" tree crushed his skull and he left 7 kids without a dad.


Now I better put on my hip boots.You`ve seen it all I see.Been around the world, but never left the state.Gotta have the last word.I admitted that drop starting probably wasn`t the safest way to start a saw, but was the way I was taught.I don`t care if you seen ten skulls get crushed.Mine isn`t, and it isn`t gonna be.And I`m not gonna hurt myself drop starting my saw cause I`m not an idiot, and I know how to start it.I don`t read the how to in owners manuals, cause I know how to cut a tree down and how to start my saw.Now run along and tell your stories to someone who gives a :censored:.You can get up and down on and off your knees all day long. I don`t care. You obviously never worked for anybody who needed a fast and efficient chopper.I told you I was done with this post, and now I am.So lets see if you can understand English.Don`t respond to this post, as I don`t care to hear anymore weekend warrior stories and how some dumb ass cut his fingers off cause they should have stayed in the house instead of trying to use a chainsaw.


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## Curlycherry1

fatjoe said:


> You`ve seen it all I see.Been around the world, but never left the state.Gotta have the last word.I admitted that drop starting probably wasn`t the safest way to start a saw, but was the way I was taught.I don`t care if you seen ten skulls get crushed.Mine isn`t, and it isn`t gonna be.And I`m not gonna hurt myself drop starting my saw cause I`m not an idiot, and I know how to start it.I don`t read the how to in owners manuals, cause I know how to cut a tree down and how to start my saw.Now run along and tell your stories to someone who gives a :censored:.You can get up and down on and off your knees all day long. I don`t care. You obviously never worked for anybody who needed a fast and efficient chopper.I told you I was done with this post, and now I am.So lets see if you can understand English.Don`t respond to this post, as I don`t care to hear anymore weekend warrior stories and how some dumb ass cut his fingers off cause they should have stayed in the house instead of trying to use a chainsaw.



I'll respond if I want. You know all about me do you? Well, first off I have lived in 4 states from NY, OH, IL and MN. Second, I may be a weekend warrier now, but I put myself through college and paid for alot of equipment, cars, women and fun with the firewood business I took over from my dad at the age of 15. At 16-23 I worked periodically as a feller and I made damn good money in a hurry because of my speed and accuracy. I cut and sold more wood with small equipment than many cut with far bigger equipment and big payments to boot. Speed was very important to me and that was why as a firewood cutter and feller I lugged the biggest saws that my ~120# body could tolerate (925s and 051). So I know all about the value of cuts per minute and blocks per hour and board feet on the ground, where it is supposed to be. Finally, the attitude of "it will never happen to me" is exactly the same attitude that eventually gets everyone eventually.


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## Cummins00

Like I said before every class I've taken for certs say to start it on the ground. Now how many people do we know who do start it on the ground? One? My 88 year old retired grandpa who no longer has the back for it. He still gets it started on one knee mind you - same with the ole hedge trimmer 

If you hurt yourself starting a saw. Be thankful. That injury probably saved you from killing or permanently disabling yourself later on while running that same saw you failed to start safely.

Now if you too love birds would stop being so dang rygaard we could get back to the topic at hand


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## palogger

"I don`t care if you seen ten skulls get crushed.Mine isn`t, and it isn`t gonna be.And I`m not gonna hurt myself drop starting my saw cause I`m not an idiot, and I know how to start it."

How do you know your skull isnt gonna be crushed? Sounds like someone is getting a little to big for there boots, now to me the only way to be certain your skull isnt gonna get crushed is to stay at home and watch tv.

In the woods things happen without any notice and its just possible that one time you wont move quick enough. And just cause your not an idiot doesnt mean your cant get hurt. So what your saying is everybody that has gotten hurt in the woods or with a saw is an idiot, they are called accidents and they do happen


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## slowp

You don't have to get on your knee or knees to start a saw on the ground. Simply insert foot or toe in the handle, bend over, pull cord. I left out many of the little itty bitty details. 

I'd drop start it, with brake on, if I could, but just can't seem to do so. Twinkle's handle is all chewed up from putting my calk boot in it. 

I say start it however is best for you. Now, go forth and do great things...


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## Curlycherry1

Cummins00 said:


> Now if you too love birds would stop being so dang rygaard we could get back to the topic at hand



Agree. So I wonder what Rygard's insurance carrier is going to say when/if they watch him on TV? Documented lack of insufficient or improper training, disregard for accepted safety practices according to operator's manuals, and verbal/physical harassment of employees. Any one of those things would get me fired where I work, and I would be escorted out the door.


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## a. palmer jr.

Curlycherry1 said:


> One thing that always amazed me is that they always show them starting the saw with it off the ground. Now for an experienced operator that is a cake walk, but if the guy is at all not experienced or the saw is at all hard to start then that method sucks. It makes life very difficult.
> 
> It is much easier, especially for anyone that is not very experienced to set the saw down, get a good grip on it and then yank with reckless abandon.
> 
> I guess they are going for the macho thing of showing how an experienced logger does it, but it is a quick way to look like a fool.
> 
> Me, unless the saw is warmed up I leave them on the ground, and of course I always skip using the decompression valve 'cause I am a real man.



With the bigger, heavier saws I generally leave them on the ground. When I was younger I would pick them up just to be macho, I guess.


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## dozerman37

*start saw*

i run alot of saws, and the one i use most is my 268 "the equalizer" and it has no decompression button. i crotch start most my saws except that one. ground only...
their was some threads a few months back, and i saw how many guys downed on the axe men show. haha i agreed, we dont act like that at all in the woods. its safety first for everything and then production. work like a dog all day in the woods then we come home and eat a big meal and go for a swim in the pool. axe men tv stars, i think theyre paid to act like that but im not sure yet, dont have proof.


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## 056 kid

Curlycherry1 said:


> Back in the old days saws did not come with decompression valves. My old Homelite 925s never had them and my 30 year old 051 does not have one. Sure the drop and pull method works but it can lead to problems. I watched a guy do it and his hand was on the trigger and the tip on a log. He flinched as the saw took off and it came back off the log and cut his shin and top of his foot wide open. My brother started a saw once with the drop method and somehow he swung it around just after it started and it nipped the back of his leg to the tune of 25 stiches. The blade was just barely moving but it was enough to get him.
> 
> Me, I leave them on the ground and maintain control and when everything is idling fine and the chain is not moving, then I pick them up and get to work.




Yea, he got scared by the saw, of course its gonhna cut him...

honestly i feel that starting a bigger saw on the ground takes way more energy than drop starting anyway. . .

Compression releases and chinsey starting methods are for the do do brains and the feeble. If you wanna start a saw, you grip that bastard like you mean it and tear that chord like you mean it. Everything you do with a saw, you do it like you mean it...


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## stevohut

fatjoe said:


> Now I better put on my hip boots.You`ve seen it all I see.Been around the world, but never left the state.Gotta have the last word.I admitted that drop starting probably wasn`t the safest way to start a saw, but was the way I was taught.I don`t care if you seen ten skulls get crushed.Mine isn`t, and it isn`t gonna be.And I`m not gonna hurt myself drop starting my saw cause I`m not an idiot, and I know how to start it.I don`t read the how to in owners manuals, cause I know how to cut a tree down and how to start my saw.Now run along and tell your stories to someone who gives a :censored:.You can get up and down on and off your knees all day long. I don`t care. You obviously never worked for anybody who needed a fast and efficient chopper.I told you I was done with this post, and now I am.So lets see if you can understand English.Don`t respond to this post, as I don`t care to hear anymore weekend warrior stories and how some dumb ass cut his fingers off cause they should have stayed in the house instead of trying to use a chainsaw.



Holly crap man take a vallium people do things differently that's life deal with it. That's nothing to joke about that guy that was killed that was a rude comment. Now go play checkers or whatever the hell you old guys do.


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