# Clearcutting a lot - beginner tips



## Marc (Oct 1, 2012)

Hi all- my sister is building a house on a wooded lot abutting my parents' property. We're trying to save her some money instead of having someone come in and clear the lot. I've got a decent amount of cutting experience, for a firewood guy, I guess. I know enough to know what I can and can't do anyway. I took a look at the land and trees this weekend, and the wood is nothing too challenging. It's I guess what you'd call second growth, probably a 75 - 100 year old stand, previously pasture land. About an acre. Mostly red oak and white pine, mostly straight. Slight grade on the lot but nothing that would make anything roll once it hits the ground. Most of the trees lean predominately uphill.

She has a local, part time miller that might be interested in buying some of the straighter pine and oak (he picks up). The rest will be firewood. I've never clear cut a lot before- I mostly do yard trees, fence lines and the odd snag in the woods. Cut a couple roadways as well. If the deal works out with the mill guy, we'll probably be skidding with a small tractor.

So, I guess I'm looking for tips on how to tackle this without screwing up something obvious that's going to make things difficult. Since most of the trees have a common lean uphill, my plan was to start on the uphill edge of the lot, generally working my way down and across. Thanks in advance for any tips and advice, I know experience isn't free, so I appreciate anyone who's willing to take the time to share. Best thing I have to offer in return are pictures of the work.. sorry, I know that's not really enticing. Free home brewed beer too, for anyone who wants to come to Dudley to get it


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## s219 (Oct 1, 2012)

We just cleared a piece of land, and my suggestion would be to hire someone with heavy equipment! I did preliminary work with chainsaw and tractor, and would do 4-5 trees per weekend working by myself. It was fine for clearing the home site so we could survey and mark things out, but when it came time to clear the 40x75 septic area and cut in a 600 foot driveway (about 30 feet wide corridor including ditches and utility easements), we hired a professional crew. Two guys came in with a large Deere track hoe and Bobcat with grapple, and knocked the whole job out in 2-3 days. That includes loading pine onto trucks for the paper mill, carting off all the stumps, and chipping all the tops. It was amazing to see how fast they worked with proper equipment -- the track hoe literally could push over a tree and then pop the stump out in about 30 seconds. It was only a few grand cost, which did not seem bad to me (considering that buying a new tractor is $16K at least, a good big chainsaw will run about $1K nowadays, and then add in fuel costs).

I guess if time is not an issue, go ahead and chip away at it yourself with a chainsaw and tractor. You'll definitely need time if you plan to pick away at the stumps with a tractor or small backhoe. But if time or manpower is a factor, consider getting a crew in with heavy machinery.


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## Marc (Oct 1, 2012)

Sorry, forgot to mention, excavation crew is handling the stumps. I volunteered to help; like I said, my sister wants to avoid the cost of hiring a land clearing outfit. For advice, I'm looking more on technique than logistics. I expect we'll be able to do a fair bit more than 4 - 5 trees/weekend.


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## s219 (Oct 1, 2012)

The only thing I'd recommend to keep the excavation crew productive (and happy) would be to leave high stumps. If not, you'd almost be better off letting them remove the trees, since low stumps make the work a lot harder and slower (and they will be cussing the whole time).

If not messing with stumps, then you definitely should be able to drop quite a few trees quickly, but rigging, skidding, etc all takes time. Ultimately, the site and your equipment will dictate felling and skidding productivity. If you don't have it, get some 3/4" logging rope and a few pulley blocks (20,000# working load is good). This comes in handy in all sorts of situations, including getting timber out. I setup a fairlead in a high tree and used that to help get timber out to a staging area where it could then be skidded behind the tractor. Otherwise plan on cutting a central skidding path all the way in (without stumps obviously). 

With any logging you do with a tractor, generally traction will always be your limiting factor, so don't expect miracles -- in the woods, horsepower/size isn't necessarily going to help (4WD will, but again not a miracle). You'll want industrial (R4) tires for durability, or ag (R1) tires for traction if you're careful. Don't even bother with turf tires. Get the forward butt of the log off the ground when skidding -- I used a skidding plate on the three-point hitch and would generally haul one or two 8-12 foot logs out at a time, with a bunch of 4 footers in the front bucket. You can use choker chains or skidding tongs hanging off the skidding plate.

I would generally fell 1-2 trees, limb and top them, then buck into 8-12 foot sections and skid out. If you plan to sell the timber, length is important to know ahead of time (and that may influence the whole workflow). If you have a loggers tape, you can walk up the log limbing and marking off lengths, then walk back down and buck it up. In my case, I would immediately chip the top of the tree (Wallenstein chipper on the tractor PTO) to keep the area clear, since space was tight. Limbs and brush piles take up a lot of space initially, and it's not feasible to drag them out without killing productivity. Once you have opened up some space, you could consider pushing everything into a burn pile if allowed in your locality (it's not in mine).

I'm not saying this is the only way to do it, but it's what worked for me with one man and a Kubota 4WD tractor. I had to invest in a fair amount of equipment to do it safely and productively. I don't think the operation scales up very economically, since a clearing crew is just a few $K and they do everything more quickly.


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## ri chevy (Oct 1, 2012)

*One tree at a time.*

I'd start on the outer edge of the tree line, and take down one at a time, and separate the good wood from the slash. 
Fall the trees in the open areas. Keep your work area clean, and just use common sense. I cleared a few acre lots in the past. Piece of cake. 
Is the hill that your talking about on the front edge, or the back edge? Just thinking out loud so as to make your job easier.


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## Marc (Oct 1, 2012)

s219 - Thanks, I had someone else tell me to leave high stumps as well. Rest of it seems like sound advice. The tractor we'll probably end up using is a 40 hp 4wd that has R1 tires, should be fine, and we do have a fair bit of experience using a tractor in the woods at least. Fortunately the trees aren't so dense we need to cut a road, and the lot isn't that big anyway. I've got a 372 which will be plenty for the timber we're cutting. I believe the lowest quote she got from a land clearer was $3500 and the excavation contractor is charging somewhere around $1000 (his estimate, I think actual cost is by the hour) to pull the stumps and is giving her a small break because it's someone she knows and its extra work at the same site. It sounded to me like it was worth it, plus whatever she's going to get for marketable timber from this guy with the mill, plus she's planning on keeping a lot of the cordwood for her own use. I'm fairly certain she'll come out ahead.

ri chevy- the whole thing is a fairly steady, low sloped grade.


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## ri chevy (Oct 1, 2012)

Should be fairly easy then. Take your time and be careful. Good luck and ....... don't forget the pics!


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## slowp (Oct 1, 2012)

In our area, fallers work hillsides from the bottom up. This is a safety thing and keeps trees from rolling down on them while they are cutting. I'm not a faller, but I've seen a lot of it done and this is a cardinal rule for clearcuts on slopes.


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## s219 (Oct 1, 2012)

Marc said:


> plus she's planning on keeping a lot of the cordwood for her own use. I'm fairly certain she'll come out ahead.



Heh, be careful about how far ahead you come -- I realized the other day I have more logs set aside for firewood than I could ever burn in 5-6 years, so now the issue is how to process and store it all so it doesn't go to waste. I'm going to need to saw some of the logs into lumber and build a woodshed just to use it up and protect the firewood! I wasn't a good judge on quantity until I stood back and started looking at the big piles.... I was focused on harvesting the hardwoods, and that totaled about 30 trees (oak, beech, maple). The clearing crew took out mostly pines and poplars.


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## dingeryote (Oct 1, 2012)

Marc,

The gent that is buying the logs would likely prefer the stumps cut low on several of the trees, so get him out there and mark those.
While ya have his attention, ask what length he wants things bucked to on those trees, providing of course they don't go hairy when dropped.
Skidding 30' of a Red oak stem on a grade with a little tractor, just ain't gonna happen without things breaking.

Put the winter chains on that tractor. R1's will dig trenches as the ground starts getting loosened up. Chains REALLY help when you're pushing the limits caused by not having enough weight.
Put an extra couple hundred pounds on the front as well. 

If you can line up 2-3 extra bodies and another tractor to haul out and cut tops and brush, it would speed things up as well.
Offer lunch, Beer, and firewood to your woodtick buds if ya have to. Brushing things out in place slows progress to a crawl.

When I cleared the middle 5 acres of our Bluebery patch, I ran it alone and in the name of time ended up dropping the keepers, topping and skidding out the tops to a pile, and the stems to another, then attacked each pile so as to not impeede progress on clearing.

PICS!!
Dude you know the rules!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## northmanlogging (Oct 2, 2012)

Yer gonna want a skidder path and some sort of landing with access to log trucks etc (depending on what yer mill guy gots)
get those areas first aka clear your access road, then landing, then skid roads, brake the area into sections so if you got several people working your not dropping stuff on each others heads literally... and so the tractor can focus on skidding one area clean while someone else is falling in another, as far as hills etc. start falling at the bottom and work up but from the sounds of it its not real steep and shouldn't pose a problem, skid/yard from the top down. Using the tractor it can be a pain to be productive with non forestry equipment you may have to take little bites, say dump 3-4ish trees limb and buck in the brush. Then move to another area for cutting while the tractor spends the rest of the day fighting with logs. Try to keep yer brush piles in, well, piles, scattering brush all over the place is a good way to lose saw logs and tractors. Despite appearances tops and branches make horrible traction with ag tires and they have a habit of chewing what little tread ya have left off. One last word cut your stumps LOW tall stumps are hell on skidders let alone tractors and they like to grab their former tops and hold on for dear after life...


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## Marc (Oct 2, 2012)

slowp said:


> In our area, fallers work hillsides from the bottom up. This is a safety thing and keeps trees from rolling down on them while they are cutting. I'm not a faller, but I've seen a lot of it done and this is a cardinal rule for clearcuts on slopes.



I thought that might be the case, but you guys have *real* hills out there  There's no flat ground where I am but there's not a lot of steeps either. I'm going to take more looks at the lot when they get the trees they want removed marked out and I'll keep this in mind, but I think the predominant lean that almost all of em have uphill, and letting that determine my direction, outweighs any chance one might roll downhill. It's really not that steep a grade. From my best judgement, just the amount of leaf litter on the ground would be enough to keep a perfectly round trunk from rolling downhill.



dingeryote said:


> Marc,
> 
> The gent that is buying the logs would likely prefer the stumps cut low on several of the trees, so get him out there and mark those.
> While ya have his attention, ask what length he wants things bucked to on those trees, providing of course they don't go hairy when dropped.
> ...



Tires are loaded, I think we're in the 6000 - 7000 lb neighborhood with the loader right now. We'll be skidding to the bottom of the slope, fortunately, and I don't think any of the logs are going to be more than 20'. I'll def. get plenty of pics and maybe a video to really make an arse of myself assuming this actually happens.



northmanlogging said:


> Yer gonna want a skidder path and some sort of landing with access to log trucks etc (depending on what yer mill guy gots)
> get those areas first aka clear your access road, then landing, then skid roads, brake the area into sections so if you got several people working your not dropping stuff on each others heads literally... and so the tractor can focus on skidding one area clean while someone else is falling in another, as far as hills etc. start falling at the bottom and work up but from the sounds of it its not real steep and shouldn't pose a problem, skid/yard from the top down. Using the tractor it can be a pain to be productive with non forestry equipment you may have to take little bites, say dump 3-4ish trees limb and buck in the brush. Then move to another area for cutting while the tractor spends the rest of the day fighting with logs. Try to keep yer brush piles in, well, piles, scattering brush all over the place is a good way to lose saw logs and tractors. Despite appearances tops and branches make horrible traction with ag tires and they have a habit of chewing what little tread ya have left off. One last word cut your stumps LOW tall stumps are hell on skidders let alone tractors and they like to grab their former tops and hold on for dear after life...



Thanks for the tips. I'm not sure what this guy has for a rig. Wouldn't surprise me if it was just a pickup with a trailer and winch. The whole project is not a big rush, fortunately. She's still got a lot to settle with the builder and the town as far as permitting goes and I don't know how far booked all the contractors are currently. It sounds like we'll have the better part of the winter; I don't think excavation will start before spring.


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## Marc (Oct 2, 2012)

s219 said:


> Heh, be careful about how far ahead you come -- I realized the other day I have more logs set aside for firewood than I could ever burn in 5-6 years, so now the issue is how to process and store it all so it doesn't go to waste. I'm going to need to saw some of the logs into lumber and build a woodshed just to use it up and protect the firewood! I wasn't a good judge on quantity until I stood back and started looking at the big piles.... I was focused on harvesting the hardwoods, and that totaled about 30 trees (oak, beech, maple). The clearing crew took out mostly pines and poplars.



Haha, funny I was just thinking that... but my dad and I have a loyal firewood customer list we could sell to if need be. Small potatoes, maybe 10 - 15 regulars, just with what we cut on fencelines and whatnot.


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## Sagetown (Oct 2, 2012)

Lots of great advice here. I found that clearing the underbrush first, really helps. As well as cutting the stumps low. I was fortunate to have access to a trackhoe that was already working nearby that charged me $400.oo to clear a couple of acres in less than an hour. Stacked trees , moved boulders, and filled in a ravene, in the process. It is amazing what they can do in so little of time. He also smoothed things up a little with his d6 dozer at no extra charge.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 2, 2012)

when cutting an a grade the lean of a tree can be deceiving, could be yer trees got no lean??? anyway try using a plumb bob to figure lean I've heard that works better than yer own thumb...


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## Marc (Oct 2, 2012)

northmanlogging said:


> when cutting an a grade the lean of a tree can be deceiving, could be yer trees got no lean??? anyway try using a plumb bob to figure lean I've heard that works better than yer own thumb...



Distinguished lean and crown bias on most. More pronounced on the hardwood. The pine is more straight, kinda. Some ugly multi stems also. But in general, in the hardwood forests of the north east "no lean" doesn't really exist, in my experience. Even if the trunk is straight-ish, the crown will weigh to one direction or the other.


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## ri chevy (Oct 2, 2012)

The trees always grow towards the light!  If that means that they have to lean to get the light they need, then they lean.  Trees to close together, then the higher one wins. The lower tree has to search for the light.


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## madhatte (Oct 2, 2012)

I cut a small lot for a friend a couple of years ago. It was a terrible site, boggy and dense, and I told him several times that he'd be better off just leaving it on account of how the trees hold water. He insisted, I shrugged and got to work. In the end it cost him a boatload to get the drainage up to code and the parcel never sold. I told him that was going to happen, and just took my lessons as a bonus.

Also:



ri chevy said:


> The trees always grow towards the light!



The five-dollar word for that is "phototropism".


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## Huskybill (Jul 20, 2018)

I leave the stumps at least 2’ high for the dozer to push them. I work from the bottom up dropping the trees on each other making a pile I can backup the truck too. Getting the wood close to the truck to haul it means less your dragging it.


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## RandyMac (Jul 20, 2018)

necro-poster!


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## dmb2613 (Jul 20, 2018)

when you cant think of something to post you bring up a dead thread


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