# Man killed by stump grinder in NJ



## Xtra (Sep 10, 2007)

Toms River man dies in stump-grinder accident
by Carly Rothman 
Sunday September 09, 2007, 9:15 PM

A 49-year-old Toms River man was killed this afternoon when his shirt got caught in a stump grinder and dragged him under the grinding wheel, according to police in the Ocean County township. 

Frank Sanders, Jr. was doing some yard work at his father's house on Bellwood Drive around 4 p.m. when he moved too close to the machine operated by Remarkable Tree Service of Toms River, police said. 

Sanders sustained major head injuries and was declared dead at the scene around 4:45 p.m. 

The death appears to be accidental, and the initial investigation indicated the machine operator was not negligent, police Sgt. Michael Brosnan said.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/09/toms_river_man_dies_in_stump_g.html


It seems the homeowner was wearing a jumpsuit and he backed into the stumpgrinder (a large Carlton towbehind) and it sucked him in. The grinder cut him in half lengthwise.

Poor guy, prayers to his family & RIP.

(the tree company is local to me, I'll have further details later today)


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## alanarbor (Sep 10, 2007)

Xtra said:


> The death appears to be accidental, and the initial investigation indicated the machine operator was not negligent, police Sgt. Michael Brosnan said.
> 
> http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/09/toms_river_man_dies_in_stump_g.html
> 
> ...



In my opinion, I would say the operator was negligent in allowing a homeowner to be that close to an operating stump cutter.

Still a terrible way to go, my condolences to the family


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## ropensaddle (Sep 10, 2007)

alanarbor said:


> In my opinion, I would say the operator was negligent in allowing a homeowner to be that close to an operating stump cutter.
> 
> Still a terrible way to go, my condolences to the family



Safety is everyones responsibility it is a shame accidents
occur especially the ones that seem they could have been
prevented. I don't have the facts so I won't say negligent 
operator and would have to be a shared negligence either way.
I always find it hard to believe anyone would be so careless
around a machine that eats wood. prayers to everyone concerned.


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## Xtra (Sep 10, 2007)

I have a few more details.
It was a Carlton 4400-4 or 7015 large self-propelled.

From what I heard (I also used to work with the operator, and he was pretty good when it came to safety). 
The operator started yelling to the guy to stay away from the grinding area. The guy turned (maybe stumbled?) and as he did the grinder grabbed the side of his clothing and pulled him in. I'm not sure where the operator was standing.


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## Dadatwins (Sep 10, 2007)

Prayers to the family of the deceased and the operator. The why and what if will be torture for that operator for a long time. Sad news.


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## lawson's tree s (Sep 10, 2007)

sorry to hear about this accident. i wont let homeowners anywhere near the job site once we start. i tell them to watch from inside the house etc.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 11, 2007)

What a horrible gruesome accident. My condolences go out to the family and friends.
To my way of thinking, bystanders should be at least 60 or 80 feet away from a stumper in operation. If you have been around a machine like this, you know, it shakes the earth, it throws stones and debris, and it is very loud. 
What anyone is doing that close, is a mystery to me, other than the operator who stands bhind a protective shield. 
The operator should have shut it down and buried the wheel to stop the rotation, then insisted he stay away.


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## Beast12 (Sep 11, 2007)

Well, after reading soooo many stories about people getting "attacked" by stump grinders we (my Dad and I) have decided to go buy a couple dozen of those small (1 foot high) pylons. Before we do ANY stump we will be setting up a perimeter around the stump and machine so no one can be in the area. 

It should not happen. I can't believe how close people stand when I am working on a stump. It's ridiculous.

-Matt


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## 046 (Sep 11, 2007)

without knowing all the details, sure seems operator is at fault... it's his responsibility to secure a safe perimeter.


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## Tekko (Sep 12, 2007)

Almost sound like a murder case since the operator did nothing to prevent this accident.


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## juststumps (Sep 12, 2007)

Tekko said:


> Almost sound like a murder case since the operator did nothing to prevent this accident.




YOUR KIDDING ??? RIGHT ???


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## sloth9669 (Sep 12, 2007)

*natural selection*

Listen up one and all.......this is the problem with humanity.....we let the weak and stupid survive and bread. Listen i feel for the guy and his family who lost there father,son, or brother. Also feel for the guy who was running the machine. He didn't ask for stupid to run toward the loud huge steel wheel with teeth going 1000rpm and ruin his life, job and family. 

Lets call it how it is.

Operater fault...Not telling the homeowner to keep 100 feet way..and shutting the grinder down and leaving if he did not listen.

Homeowner error...being probably stupider ( i know its not a word ) then the average joe. I mean how dumb must one be to get that close to a machine like that. 
If you ask me is say this is 75% homeowner fault and 25% tree guy.


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## Sprig (Sep 12, 2007)

sloth9669 said:


> Listen up one and all.......this is the problem with humanity.....we let the weak and stupid survive and bread. Listen i feel for the guy and his family who lost there father,son, or brother. Also feel for the guy who was running the machine. He didn't ask for stupid to run toward the loud huge steel wheel with teeth going 1000rpm and ruin his life, job and family.
> 
> Lets call it how it is.
> 
> ...


A sad and horrible accident, helluv a way to exit this mortal coil  
That said, I am inclined to agree with you. Listen up to this lesson gents, make sure 'homey' knows where and where not to get near, teach them, they don't know and take a lot of things forgranted, take a look at how many of these stupid accidents happen when 'I'm payin' da bill and should keep an eye on things.' type of stuff happens, makes me crazy. I regard all observers as idiots and treat them as such, including those I know know better, it is a huge safety issue and as such I really like the 'Zone of Occlusion' rule, IOW, iffin your not part of the crew back off and stay outta the way! If its desputed shut it down and have a heart to heart, if they have a PC log them into this thread, just don't let them figure on invincibility because they're payin' the bill.
Stuff like this is totally avoidable and if it means offending the HO, so be it, take the time to put them in their place and make darned sure they stay there, no matter if your chipping, snapping brush, moving your truck, dropping trees and branches, whatever; get them outta the zone!

My 0.02$ worth and hurtin' here with an ugly picture in my brain *shudder*


Serge


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## 2muchstuff (Sep 12, 2007)

i cant one believe anyone would get close to that raging wheel. Do you know how close you woulld have toet sucked be to get sucked in, right on it almost like a sucide .


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## juststumps (Sep 12, 2007)

Beast12 said:


> Well, after reading soooo many stories about people getting "attacked" by stump grinders we (my Dad and I) have decided to go buy a couple dozen of those small (1 foot high) pylons. Before we do ANY stump we will be setting up a perimeter around the stump and machine so no one can be in the area.
> 
> It should not happen. I can't believe how close people stand when I am working on a stump. It's ridiculous.
> 
> -Matt



you can put up all the " CONES,, FLAGS,, FENCES,, SAW HORSES,, TAPE,,ETC..."

there will always someone who will walk around or over them,, because what they have to do,, is more important than you keeping them safe !!!!!

the only thing is when the lawyers swoop in,, is to show you took reasonable steps to keep the public out of your work zone...


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## clearance (Sep 12, 2007)

juststumps said:


> you can put up all the " CONES,, FLAGS,, FENCES,, SAW HORSES,, TAPE,,ETC..."
> 
> there will always someone who will walk around or over them,, because what they have to do,, is more important than you keeping them safe !!!!!



True, how true it is, common sense, as my G/F is fond of saying, is not common at all. Sad for everyone involved, my support is for the operator, I don't mean to be callous or unfeeling but c'mon now people, big stump grinders are like chippers, they scream stay away, stay away.


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## 046 (Sep 12, 2007)

sure it's homeowner's fault for being too stupid to realize just how dangerous it is to get too close. 

but still maintain it's mostly operator's fault. if someone for what ever reason crosses safety line. then operator should immediately shut machine down until safe zone is restored. 

yelling at someone is next to worthless with a super loud machine running. shut it down!


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## ray benson (Sep 13, 2007)

Beast12 said:


> Well, after reading soooo many stories about people getting "attacked" by stump grinders we (my Dad and I) have decided to go buy a couple dozen of those small (1 foot high) pylons. Before we do ANY stump we will be setting up a perimeter around the stump and machine so no one can be in the area.
> 
> It should not happen. I can't believe how close people stand when I am working on a stump. It's ridiculous.
> 
> -Matt




The stump grinders I have seen do not set up a perimeter and some do work alone. The cone idea seems to be a logical,simple safety measure.


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## tree md (Sep 13, 2007)

What a terrible accident. I feel for all involved. 

That being said, I had a customer walk right into my drop zone Tuesday while I had a big ass chunk hanging from my rope. She was literally standing right under the chunk asking me about what I was doing. I told her that this was a hard hat area and she would have to move along. I have started putting cones out and setting a perimeter since then but when your bringing down big stuff or using heavy equipment it is still our responsibility to look out for ground hazards. Not saying the operator is at fault here because I saw for myself how an ignorant customer can put themselves in harms way before you can spit. I feel for the operator, the HO and the family. What a horrible accident.


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## Sprig (Sep 13, 2007)

Though I have absolutely no experience grinding I think setting up visual barriers, ie. bright taped off zone, cones 'n' tape, electric fence, what-ever it takes to keep the curious outta the way, as well as laying down the laws before you proceed with the job (you get close I shut her down, get someone else attitude) is an absolute 'must be done' thing. Man, nobody, but nobody, needs this sort of thing happening to them, it is heartrending


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## juststumps (Sep 13, 2007)

let's see,, yesterday,,,taking the dead top out of a tulip,,,,

partner is about 40 ft up in the bucket,,,i'm on the rope,,,

cones out,,,,,

chain saw SCREAMING,,, i have a death grip with two hands on the rope,, thru a figure eight,,, 300- 400 pound piece going south,,,,

HERE COMES SOME SLAPPING A$$H*LE ,, WALKING UP TO ME,, LOOKING FOR DIRECTIONS!!!!!!!!

WHAT DO YOU DO????? GUY IN THE BUCKET IS IN MID CUT,,, I GOT TWO HANDS ON THE ROPE,,,, CUTTER ISN'T GOING TO HERE ME YELLING TO STOP WITH THE SAW RUNNINNG!!!!!

he's focused on not killing himself or me,, and visa versa!!!!

the only thing i could do at the time was yell "GET THE F%^K OUT OF HERE !!!

needless to say she didn't leave looking to happy.....


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## juststumps (Sep 13, 2007)

046 said:


> sure it's homeowner's fault for being too stupid to realize just how dangerous it is to get too close.
> 
> but still maintain it's mostly operator's fault. if someone for what ever reason crosses safety line. then operator should immediately shut machine down until safe zone is restored.
> 
> yelling at someone is next to worthless with a super loud machine running. shut it down!



with that logic,,, there wouldn't,,, shouldn't be any deer car collisions....

when you see the deer,,, you should stop the car,,, problem solved !!!!!!!

if ever it was so easy!!!!!!

some times the timing isn't there.......and bad stuff happens..... sad to say...


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## Farmer Ferd (Sep 22, 2007)

I was running the same machine once a carlton 400-4 in some guys yard. I had cones set up all about 10' away all around this diesel engine is load and running full bore. two kids about 12 years old come running out of the neighbors yard running right towards the business end of this machine I quick turn it off and start running at them screaming and waving they come to a staggering halt about 10 feet from the machine. I don't know who was more scarred. short of putting up a barrier what can you do.


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## squad143 (Sep 23, 2007)

The best you can do is follow due diligence and try and plan for the unexpected and hope for the best and at least have your a$$ covered as best as possible if s*#! happens.

We work in a very different world. Day in and day out we see trees getting topped, guys hanging in their saddles by rope, brush getting eaten faster than you can blink or stumps being pulverized. We see this all the time. The public/customer does not.

People are curious, they want to see the unusual and most times are completely unaware of the dangers. How many of us slow down to look at a car accident? All of us right? It is up to us to expect the curious nature of humans and do our best (rope, tape, cones, etc.) to keep them out of the "hot zone". 

True, we can't keep the complete idiot from being themselves, but we can at least say to ourselves that we did do everything possible to prevent the accident from occurring.


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## ropensaddle (Sep 23, 2007)

This post has given me ideas I am leaning toward a quick
hot fence charger run off inverter place around work jone
and wake up intruders!


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## newguy18 (Sep 23, 2007)

My condulences to the family and operator.I will pray for these people and hope that from this tradgedy someone wises up and learns something so this doesn't happen again.


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## 046 (Sep 24, 2007)

don't get me wrong... sh*t happens. 

but there's a world of difference between a deer running in front of your car. where you have no control of when/if that happens. 

vs a dangerous work zone you should have control over. 

that's it... I'm outa of this thread..



juststumps said:


> with that logic,,, there wouldn't,,, shouldn't be any deer car collisions....
> 
> when you see the deer,,, you should stop the car,,, problem solved !!!!!!!
> 
> ...


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## alanarbor (Sep 24, 2007)

My opinion is, the machine should have been shut down before the homewner got anywhere within the range of influence. That wheel can throw rocks, chunks, of stump etc. in a 45 degree field in front of the machine. We as people who use this equipment all the time, know this. 

Homeowners don't. 

If a homeowner (or co-worker for that matter) enters that area of influence, even 25' away it's time to shut down, and politely tell them they need to vacate the area for their own safety. 

That is why I really prefer stumpers with a hydraulic drive wheel. You can stop that wheel almost instantly by closing the valve. Not that it would have helped in this case. I'm sure it happened in an absolute split second.


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## juststumps (Sep 24, 2007)

046 said:


> don't get me wrong... sh*t happens.
> 
> but there's a world of difference between a deer running in front of your car. where you have no control of when/if that happens.
> 
> ...



yes,, sh*t does happen !!!!! 

and really,, there is no difference.....

we are talking in seconds here,,, it does not take that long for someone to encroach a work zone,,, burying that wheel,,is the way to go,,, but you might not get it done in time.....

look up,around,, look at your work,,, repeat as needed.....

i had a grinding job a while back,, doing me thing,,, next thing i know,, the next door guy is 5 feet from the wheel yelling and waving his arms at me....

it only took seconds,,,for him to get there,,, kill the wheel,, go up to talk to einstien......he wants to know why i cut his trees down..... tell him "I didn't cut your trees down,, i'm just here to grind stumps,,,i really don't think that they are your trees (surveying flags) AND YOU CAN"T BE BY THIS MACHINE,,, YOU COULD GET KILLED<< NOW GET THE F OUT OF HERE AND TALK TO THE HOME OWNER!!!! "

go back to grinding,, next thing i know,, einstien and the home owner are back in front of the wheel,, shut it down again....

now i just told this stupid SON OF A B&^TH,, to stay away!!!!!

what can you do?????

they say accidents can be avoided,,, thats true to a point,,, but they still call them accidents for a reason.....


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## squad143 (Sep 25, 2007)

No one calls 911 because something went well.


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## AngelofDarkness (Sep 26, 2007)

Holy ****** crap! That's a truly horrible way to die! I feel terrible for him and his family.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 1, 2007)

My agreements read to the effect that the work area is a "hardhat area" and that clients and their family must warn the workers and allow them a chance to stop work before entering the work area.

I have people initial that clause, especially on large jobs that will last several hours.

On a job for one of my climbing clients I saw the h/o walk under the limb my "boss" was taking off. If I had not yelled for several seconds, there would have been a struck-by injury. 

You must do every thing you can to CYA, living with the death or injury is just the start. A civil case may see that the professional was responsible for the safety of other people. 

If you had no boundaries, or written agreement, you could loose everything. Still having to live with the fact that some one died on your job.


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## TimberMcPherson (Oct 15, 2007)

The more idiot proof we try to make this world, the bigger the idiots that are created. 

In this case I think both men were clearly in the wrong. How someone could see that machine working and not think it was something to stay clear of is a mystery to me. As for the operator, he was at fault, he should have shut the machine down and briefed the guy on safe distance etc.

Sad, but possibly an education for others.


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## 2FatGuys (Oct 15, 2007)

Placing blame is a self-preservation reaction that should never have to happen. A properly prepared work site, with proper HO notification, and a responsible and observant operator helps to prevent horrible accidents like this from happening. As someone previously stated, we see this equipment and action all the time. Sometimes I think we can take it for granted and not be as safety conscious as we should be. I don't want to beat up on the operator too much. He has a long road to his own emotional recovery. I just hope that others learn from it and reduce the risk on other jobs.


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