# A "Hack" just did my Cottonwood removal



## CJ-7 (Dec 20, 2014)

I have a 42" dbh, 100 foot tall cottonwood smack dab on the property line with my neighbor. There appeared to be some root rot and a lot of exposed roots that I kept trimming with my mower. But his house was more at risk with the tree location and prevailing winds. I offered that if he ever wanted it removed, I would split the cost with him. While I was out of town in November, he texted me that he had two bids for removal, $3500 and $1900. Of course the $1900 was manageable, but not the higher number. So I agreed. My neighbor supposedly checked their insurance, as it was his house that would suffer if they screwed up. They did place some protection over his skylights.

A week ago last Thursday they showed up, a two man crew, a beater F350 box truck that looked like it had been in a fire with an big, old two axle Morbark chipper and an old Jeep Cherokee with a fairly new single axle trailer for the wood, which they were to take away. No stump removal. They had two saws, a Stihl 200 for climbing and a 440 Magnum with a 25" bar. No PPE at all. One day they had a third guy on the crew. It took them at least 5 days to finish the removal. Other than a lot of bomb craters in the lawn, there was no damage to either house. Two days ago they knocked on the door asking for a $100 cash advance to buy gas. Today they asked to borrow a 5 gallon gas can. Must have forgotten to bring theirs. One day I looked and they were feeding the chipper by hanging onto the safety bar (not hooked up) and pushing brush into it with two feet, I couldn't even watch. To make sure they missed the house they hooked their bull rope to the Jeep and pulled the trunk after making almost through cuts. After dark. It turned out the limbs and trunk were solid without any rot whatsoever.

I paid an extra $200 to have them trim up an 18" Silver Maple. I insisted that he not spike the tree, he agreed, but it was obvious that he hadn't climbed without spikes for about 20 years. He did manage to get into the tree with a ladder and free climb most of it (lanyard only) and use a Stihl powered pole saw. He did toss a rope up for some additional stability on some difficult limbs, but you could see he was struggling. Trim job was fine in the end.

I guess these guys were what you call hacks?

I wrote a check to the company name on their card, but I had to rewrite to the owner it when he said they don't have a bank account in the company name. Bottom line, they did the job without any property damage or personal injury and we saved $1600. I have mixed feelings over the whole caper.


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## Del_ (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks for the work, my kids needed shoes!


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## CJ-7 (Dec 20, 2014)

I hear you. Like I say, mixed feelings.


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## gorman (Dec 20, 2014)

Take the money you saved and fix the lawn.


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## Grais (Dec 20, 2014)

You get what you pay for. 
You wanted a cut rate tree job, and you got a cut rate tree job, thankfully nobody was killed.
It always amazes me what people think this work goes for, I get people almost daily asking if I could just trim this little tree up, you know use the bucket truck thing you have, or just climb up there twenty feet, itll just take five or ten minutes, how about a 6 pack. I dont drink thanks but no thanks.
Ive had people accuse me of trying to rip them off just giiving them a quote, 
'I wasnt born yesterday Sonny..."
So I have the number of a tree hack, he is a hack of hacks, when people balk at the price, I give them 'Wayne the hacker' number(hes a very nice guy, just an extremely shitty arborist) Ohhhh you want to save some money I got just the guy for you, no insurance, no nothing, but he'll get the tree down.
LOL.


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## tidy (Dec 20, 2014)

I'm not sure on the accurate situation regarding exchange rates etc (I'm located in Oz) but at the end of the day you had two (sometimes three guys) doing hazardous, difficult and risky work for five days straight- they also used their own equipment,vehicles, fuel and removed a decent amount of debris. You payed them peanuts and thinks that fine because they managed to avoid damaging any property or themselves? 

By taking lowball offers customer like yourself are basically creating the environment and conditions where accidents are likely to happen. Jobs priced too low are rushed to get done and in the rush someone has a ****up, its more common than you think but obviously has nothing to do with you because on your job there was no incident. Nice Work


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## bigremovals (Dec 20, 2014)

It took them five days they must not of been in to much of a hurry haha....... i couldn't even imagine a job takin that long


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## treeseer (Dec 20, 2014)

I'd have mixed feelings, too, if I lost the real estate value and the other benefits of a mature tree + $950. 

All because of root damage (by your lawnmower) and your wild imagination. 

Mycophobia is an all too common disease. Paranoia struck deep, into your wallet.


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## CJ-7 (Dec 21, 2014)

I knew I would get skewered for posting this, you haven't disappointed me. Truth is my neighbor chose the guy. I guess I should have told him that I would rather pay $3500 to remove one tree with easy access. Had I asked here if $1900 were a fair price, given all the particulars of the tree, I would have a few yes answers. So you need a new septic tank, and one guy bids $3500 and the other $1900. Both are insured and licensed (whatever that means) and both have done work in the area, and at the end of the day, both pass inspection. How much more research will you do to choose one guy over the other? Would you ask for a list of equipment and his safety equipment? Would you ask if his workers are drug tested? Heck no. How many of you are going to pay the higher amount when it is coming out of your pocket? None of you. Cottonwoods? I hate them, they are one of the dirtiest trees God ever created. Not the cotton, it is all of the stickies it dumps on the lawn, the car and the deck for at least two months out of the summer. I wish it had been Emerald Cottonwood Borer rather than EAB. We will probably plant another more suitable tree in the same spot in a year or two. By the way, we didn't pay them peanuts, we paid them what they asked for the job, no negotiating it down. And, I have seen plenty of examples posted here where otherwise reputable appearing tree guys f*** up. I'm not defending them, I am just saying don't blame the homeowner when they pay a fair price and a "hack" shows up. As far as the craters in the lawn? Most tree guys I have witnessed, large and small, often bomb pieces to the ground. Not saying it is right, its just how they often do it around here. The minute I go out and start telling them half way through a job how to be safe is the minute I start taking on liability for their safety program, or lack of it.


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## Zale (Dec 21, 2014)

Someone is a little sensitive.


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## TheJollyLogger (Dec 21, 2014)

Nothing about this post makes sense.


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## TheJollyLogger (Dec 21, 2014)

Nothing about this post makes sense.


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## TreeAce (Dec 21, 2014)

you and your neighbor are just lucky no one got hurt or God forbid,killed. Cuz you both woulda got your nuts sued off. They obv have no workers comp. Even if they do actually have liability insurance doesnt mean chit if someone gets hurt.


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## Oak Savanna (Dec 21, 2014)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Nothing about this post makes sense.



Exactly. So they have no PPE, they pull the peg over with a jeep, need a cash advance, borrow a gas can, feeding a chipper with no working safety bar by using their feet, and then you turn around and hire them to trim up a silver maple on your property!? You have to re-write a cheque to them personally because they don't have a company bank account?! One minute you are saying you can't even watch that performance and the next you hire them on to do extra work on your property. I would say that your neighbour and you rolled the dice and got lucky. You do realize that if they do not have workers comp and you hire them YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM! You are paying them to do a job so now YOU ARE THEIR EMPLOYER! I wonder why they were so much cheaper! Did your neighbour check the date on the insurance certificate (if he even saw one) and make sure it was vaid and up to date, paid in full and says "tree trimming and removal" and not roofing or landscaping! Not sure? Call the insurance company they are with and ask! They likely don't pay into workers comp (ask for a valid certificate for that too) they probably don't have pay roll and make source deductions, have insurance on their vehicles, have a registered licenced business, they have no PPE or safety certifications, the list goes on! Sure they can work for cheaper by avoiding all those costs. $500 less then the other guy is one thing but $1600 less you gotta wonder why and you should have had sirens go off in your head! (You are lucky you didn't hear sirens at you house that week) You aren't even comparing apples to apples with these clowns and a legit tree business! You post something stupid like this and then whine that you are getting ripped apart and then blame it on your neighbour for hiring them. Well since the tree was on the property line and you paid half, you have just as much say in it as he does! You even mentioned that as soon as you start telling them what they should and should not be doing you are responsible for them!! I don't know what kind of response you wanted from people on here with posts like that! I would be embarrassed to post something so stupid myself. You seem to know more about safe tree work then them, how they should be doing it and what PPE they need, you even knew what length of bar they had on their saw, had to tell em not to wear spurs on a trim, so why not do it yourself?! I bet as soon as something went wrong you would have put all the blame on your neighbour for hiring them! I would take that money you saved and buy some lottery tickets with your neighbour while good luck is on your side! Like it was mentioned above, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!! Merry Christmas CJ


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## Del_ (Dec 21, 2014)

Don't be so hard on this guy fellows, he and his neighbor were great to work for. Our kids needed shoes, two of us needed money to get our drivers licenses back and all three of us had probation officer fees that were lagging.

We did bid it low but made up some selling the firewood as Quercus trichocarpa (cotton oak).


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## CJ-7 (Dec 21, 2014)

Ah, now I remember why I quit visiting this site. Blame the homeowner, not the tree guy. Who is being a little sensitive.


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## Toddppm (Dec 21, 2014)

Haha, you wanted an attaboy and high five for saving some $$$$ hiring a hack?


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## Zale (Dec 21, 2014)

The tree guy is only trying to make a buck. You as the homeowner have the ultimate decision making authority. If you let these guys on your property, whose fault is that?


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## Oak Savanna (Dec 21, 2014)

CJ-7 said:


> Ah, now I remember why I quit visiting this site. Blame the homeowner, not the tree guy. Who is being a little sensitive.



THEY WERE ONLY THERE BECAUSE YOU HIRED THEM!!! You saw how they worked and lack of PPE and you still let it go on! A$$holes like that are only around because guys like you keep them going. It's not fair that they don't play by the rules and others do. Do it right or don't do it at all. It's s 100 foot tall tree over 2 properties! Do your homework. You shopped by price and didn't look at it any other way.


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## Oak Savanna (Dec 21, 2014)

Toddppm said:


> Haha, you wanted an attaboy and high five for saving some $$$$ hiring a hack?



Exactly! I don't even know what the point of this post was in the first place?! He's seems happy he saved some money, no one got hurt and no one got sued, then he is carving up the tree guys then blaming his neighbour. He titles it "A hack just did my cottonwood removal" then after telling us how big of cowboys they were he asks if that's what we would call a hack! I don't get it?! I don't even know why this garbage is on here in the first place! It should be in the homeowner forum.


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## tidy (Dec 21, 2014)

Oak Savanna said:


> You do realize that if they do not have workers comp and you hire them YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM! You are paying them to do a job so now YOU ARE THEIR EMPLOYER!



Typical ignorant homeowners-they just stick their head in the sand when it comes to inconvenient truths. Comes on an arborist's forum claiming half price hacks can do the job fine then complains about getting flamed.


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## pro94lt (Dec 21, 2014)

Yeah you just got lucky. .. 80 hours at 1900? Wow they missed that bid


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## TC262 (Dec 22, 2014)

I bet it was more than 80


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## lone wolf (Dec 22, 2014)

pro94lt said:


> Yeah you just got lucky. .. 80 hours at 1900? Wow they missed that bid


23.75 an hour, then the help and the fuel I wonder how much it cost the so called tree guys to do it?


pro94lt said:


> Yeah you just got lucky. .. 80 hours at 1900? Wow they missed that bid


If that's true they lost money, that's about 23.75 an hour minus help and fuel.


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## hseII (Dec 22, 2014)

I see you are in Michigan: do you have any relatives in say, West Georgia? 

The Reason I ask is I am a young, just starting out kinda guy, and if I do a satisfactory job, safely, and complete it, I would rather not get lambasted on the intertube.

So I will try to avoid that with customer selection.


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## CJ-7 (Dec 22, 2014)

Ok, guys, enough is enough. Lessons learned: Don't let your neighbor hire the tree guy, when the tree is half done before you see his work, fire him on the spot if you have any concerns and deal with him and your neighbor later and most of all, run him by all of you folks to make sure he checks out.


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## hseII (Dec 22, 2014)

CJ-7 said:


> Ok, guys, enough is enough. Lessons learned: Don't let your neighbor hire the tree guy, when the tree is half done before you see his work, fire him on the spot if you have any concerns and deal with him and your neighbor later and most of all, run him by all of you folks to make sure he checks out.


I'll be serious for a minute:

1) the tree is removed
2) nothing was damaged
3) no one was injured
4) you got them to do extra work while they were there, that they completed, even if uncomfortably.
5) you saved enough money to correct any divets in your lawn.
6) you paid them what they requested

All in all, what have you got to complain about?

Y'all didn't contract a 1st class arborist, but in the end, the job you wanted, and paid for is done without bodily or property damage

Let this be a lesson, count your blessings, and move forward.

When someone post on a forum, criticism in a response is a definite possibility.

All things considered, I think you/y'all did ok.

Sure they could of been better looking, more professional, worn PPE correctly, etc.., but at the end of the day, you/ y'all received the work you contracted and paid for.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 22, 2014)

CJ-7 said:


> Ok, guys, enough is enough. Lessons learned: Don't let your neighbor hire the tree guy, when the tree is half done before you see his work, fire him on the spot if you have any concerns and deal with him and your neighbor later and most of all, run him by all of you folks to make sure he checks out.



You don't get it,,, that is ok.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 22, 2014)

hseII said:


> I'll be serious for a minute:
> 
> 1) the tree is removed
> 2) nothing was damaged
> ...



You don't get it either,, that is ok,,
Jeff


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## Pelorus (Dec 22, 2014)

Merry Christmas to you Jeff.


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## Zale (Dec 22, 2014)

CJ-7 said:


> Ok, guys, enough is enough. Lessons learned: Don't let your neighbor hire the tree guy, when the tree is half done before you see his work, fire him on the spot if you have any concerns and deal with him and your neighbor later and most of all, run him by all of you folks to make sure he checks out.



Still very sensitive.


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## tidy (Dec 22, 2014)

CJ-7 said:


> Ok, guys, enough is enough. Lessons learned: Don't let your neighbor hire the tree guy, when the tree is half done before you see his work, fire him on the spot if you have any concerns and deal with him and your neighbor later and most of all, run him by all of you folks to make sure he checks out.



Actually, go post it in the homeowners forum as per the sites instructions. 

There's a whole other part of this caper that stinks like a rotten fish: Its blatantly obvious these guys savagely under quoted the job-your response is to come on the internet and smugly gloat about coming out on top...


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## treeseer (Dec 22, 2014)

"We'll probably plant another tree in a year or two" ranks right up there with "The check's in the mail".

Lesson unlearned--don't bash tree roots with lawnmowers!


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## TreeAce (Dec 22, 2014)

Del_ said:


> Don't be so hard on this guy fellows, he and his neighbor were great to work for. Our kids needed shoes, two of us needed money to get our drivers licenses back and all three of us had probation officer fees that were lagging.
> 
> We did bid it low but made up some selling the firewood as Quercus trichocarpa (cotton oak).


but you spent the money on meth anyway.....


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## pro94lt (Dec 22, 2014)

A meth crew would have topped and dropped it regardless of risks and took a 1000.00$ cash draw before completion and not have cleaned up the mess. These guys abuse old Milwaukee... 5 days for 1900... no meth here just cheap beer cheap smokes and a wore out jeep.


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## TreeAce (Dec 23, 2014)

pro94lt said:


> A meth crew would have topped and dropped it regardless of risks and took a 1000.00$ cash draw before completion and not have cleaned up the mess. These guys abuse old Milwaukee... 5 days for 1900... no meth here just cheap beer cheap smokes and a wore out jeep.


it was a joke really. well,pretty much.


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## Aldegar (Dec 23, 2014)

I have known many a good tree worker that doesn't wear ppe and can't climb spurless. So what if they underbid the job, sounds like a nasty ass cottonwood and while they were spinning their gears for a week, they missed out on more attractive jobs. For future reference, the state labor and industries websites usually has a contractor verification which will let you check out who you are hiring. Never hire an unlicensed contractor, if something goes wrong (which is much more likely if they are not licensed) then the home owner assumes all liability.


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## TheJollyLogger (Dec 23, 2014)

My friend, you have an interesting definition of " good tree worker."


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## Del_ (Dec 23, 2014)

TreeAce said:


> but you spent the money on meth anyway.....



Nope.

Meth hurts my tooth!


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## CJ-7 (Dec 23, 2014)

Oh, wait... Now I remember why I used to surf the Commercial Tree Care and Climbing forum for years. These threads are way more entertaining than the woodworking forums I surf now. Those guys are way to boring.


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## Toddppm (Dec 23, 2014)

Del_ said:


> Nope.
> 
> Meth hurts my tooth!



Hey are you the guy that sharpens grinder teeth?


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## Del_ (Dec 23, 2014)

Nope.



Toddppm said:


> Hey are you the guy that sharpens grinder teeth?


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## Aldegar (Dec 28, 2014)

TheJollyLogger said:


> My friend, you have an interesting definition of " good tree worker."



I have worked with tons of old school tree guys and have seen some serious talent and learned a lot from these guys. My definition of a good tree worker is someone who gets the job done. There is a sense of camaraderie I feel towards anyone who can withstand the abuse that this profession can dish out toothless or not


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## CJ-7 (Dec 28, 2014)

In retrospect, I should have titled the post "An old school tree guy just did my cottonwood removal". Might have been a little less troll like.


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## Aldegar (Dec 28, 2014)

Sometimes you CAN teach an old dog new tricks though, I know one guy in his 50's who is all about SRT and safety. If someone was working on my property I would make it a point to check their credentials myself as well as mandate that they wear ppe because it's your investment that is on the line, saving a few bucks is always good just as long as you limit your risk.


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## treesmith (Dec 30, 2014)

****


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## TheJollyLogger (Dec 30, 2014)

Well, by that definition these were good tree workers. They got the job done, I guess. Of course, by that definition any homeowner with a ladder that miraculously escapes a trip to the emergency room is a "good tree worker".


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## Aldegar (Dec 30, 2014)

Look, all I am saying is that I have worked with people like that and respect them for who they are. This job eats people up and spits them out, every day is a challenge and there is no need to add social drama into the mix.


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## TheJollyLogger (Dec 30, 2014)

Believe me, you don't have to tell me how hard or dangerous this job is. There is a difference between respecting a fellow climber's cajones and condoning outdated practices. That's not what this site is about. I still don't see how you can consider a climber that can't climb without spurs a "good tree worker".


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## TaoTreeClimber (Dec 30, 2014)

Climbing trees in Spurs and Chaps is a serious PITA. Just sayin'


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## pro94lt (Dec 30, 2014)

Having to borrow money from the homeowner yeah that sounds like a good tree guy. Not being able to climb without spikes yeah that's good too. if you don't see the obvious you yourself are one of them...


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## Aldegar (Dec 31, 2014)

Just did 2 days of pine clean outs spurless, it sucked but the trees turned out beautiful. I like to be well rounded for whatever comes my way and am fortunate to work for a company that is dedicated to ISA standards. I do know some bad ass mofo's that don't spurless because they have always worked for production companies and trust me when I tell you that these guys are good tree workers when it comes to rigging and huge take downs. My last employer would not allow spurless and I continued working there because feeding my family is more important to me than whether or not I leave a mark on the tree. I don't know these individuals but personally I try not to demonize anyone, especially if I don't know them.


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## treesmith (Dec 31, 2014)

No offence but I think there is a big difference between a removalist and a tree worker, a tree worker/arborist can do it all


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## Aldegar (Dec 31, 2014)

A tree worker can be anyone that does tree work from consulting arborist to brush draggers.


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## treesmith (Dec 31, 2014)

I've met brush draggers that call themselves arborists, my reaction to that is less than complimentary


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## treebilly (Dec 31, 2014)

I went over to a family members today to cut and split some wood. Had everything in the truck and was there bright and early. Was embarrassed as hell when I had to borrow a gas can from her. Thought of this thread.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 31, 2014)

Aldegar said:


> A tree worker can be anyone that does tree work from consulting arborist to brush draggers.



Not a pro without the 'certs',, unless the client don't care.
Jeff


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## DLCRL (Jan 4, 2015)

If all I did was removals I'd be a happy guy. There's more money and the work is far less tedious, I wish that this industry was more divided so one could specialise in that alone. As it is now I need to diversify to earn six figures so I climb everything w/gaffs, I try to more gingerly w/trims.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 4, 2015)

And, that would make you a hack.


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## DLCRL (Jan 4, 2015)

Yes but a hack who makes $100,000 in 8 months


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 4, 2015)

Yes, and you'll always be stuck there, bidding on price because there's nothing you provide that any other hack in town can't.
Or, you could learn proper techniques, get certified, educate your customerd and set yourself apart. Handled properly, oruning and maintenance can be much more lucrative than removals.


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## CJ-7 (Jan 4, 2015)

Mine is bigger than yours? Interesting to see the discussion continuing.


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## DLCRL (Jan 4, 2015)

Let's keep in mind all I do is show up put the tree or brush on the ground and leave, I subcontract I'm not a company. I make $100,000 in 8 months cash money, I'm not sure how I can make more.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 4, 2015)

Start your own business, be the guy that hires the climber.


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## DLCRL (Jan 4, 2015)

Too much trouble, employees taxes my way works fine for my purposes. I've no kids, a theatre that has commercial grade electronics next year I want to trade in my Z4 and get a real European sports car.


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## DLCRL (Jan 4, 2015)

Plus I enjoy climbing the cognitive thinking it takes to remove a tree in tight spaces. And the workout I receive doing it.


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## Zale (Jan 5, 2015)

I hope you're saving your money. The body doesn't last forever.


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## DLCRL (Jan 5, 2015)

That's true but conditioned right you can get a lot of years, I'm 42 six ft. 160 lbs. I don't drink much, basically in perfect health, I've more energy during the season as long as the money is there. And no my energy isn't chemically enhanced, I've never even tried it.


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## DLCRL (Jan 5, 2015)

I mean look at some of these athletes that go forever Favre, Jordan, some individuals aren't as susceptible to the ravages of time as others.


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## treesmith (Jan 5, 2015)

Ryan Giggs

 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Giggs


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## DLCRL (Jan 5, 2015)

Personally I just can't conceive of retirement, 3 months off w/o a steady flow of cash is just boring I've managed my funds to make it through winter. But that means all future acquisitions are put on hold till after winter, the idea of never again having large cash flow, is just not for me. I've big dreams and laundry list of things to acquire.


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## treesmith (Jan 5, 2015)

Sounds like scotland, beautiful when it was nice but when the weather turned you were stuffed


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## DLCRL (Jan 5, 2015)

treesmith said:


> Sounds like scotland, beautiful when it was nice but when the weather turned you were stuffed


Are you from Europe treesmith? Yes it's bitter cold here right now, -15° w/o wind chill.


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## treesmith (Jan 5, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Are you from Europe treesmith? Yes it's bitter cold here right now, -15° w/o wind chill.


I was, Oz now, no winter here that I've noticed, just a stinking hot summer


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## DLCRL (Jan 5, 2015)

Where is Oz, somewhere over the rainbow? LOL


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## treesmith (Jan 5, 2015)

Oztralia


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## Aldegar (Jan 5, 2015)

Your in your forties and still work for cash Glad to hear your in good health but it won't last forever, if you think 3 months without doing anything is bad try 30 years on a tiny fixed income because you didn't put into social security while having a list of tree related aches and pains. On that note if I was under the table I would not talk about it online. Sorry, I'm a dad and used to giving lectures on responsibility. You sound like a capable climber and make enough to invest in some equipment, it's not difficult to get into and there will be a point where you can't climb. Why not stay in the industry until the day you die by building a company with your skills instead of watching other benefit from you ability?


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## DLCRL (Jan 5, 2015)

Aldegar said:


> Your in your forties and still work for cash Glad to hear your in good health but it won't last forever, if you think 3 months without doing anything is bad try 30 years on a tiny fixed income because you didn't put into social security while having a list of tree related aches and pains. On that note if I was under the table I would not talk about it online. Sorry, I'm a dad and used to giving lectures on responsibility. You sound like a capable climber and make enough to invest in some equipment, it's not difficult to get into and there will be a point where you can't climb. Why not stay in the industry until the day you die by building a company with your skills instead of watching other benefit from you ability?


I guess mostly because I still make more than a lot of owners I work with, by time they pay for maintenance, do the books pay taxes, none of which I've concern myself with. I've more time and money while having virtually no hassles.


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## Aldegar (Jan 5, 2015)

Do both, that way you can get fat watching young people climb when you get old.


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## DLCRL (Jan 5, 2015)

Personally I'm not expecting to grow old, I've no kids if I have a heart attack, I don't wish to recover, I don't wish to change the way I live, I'm here temporarily then I'm gone. I really don't wish to get old and feeble, having to be cared for is not my idea of retirement.


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## capetrees (Jan 5, 2015)

and on a happy note .....


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## Zale (Jan 5, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> I mean look at some of these athletes that go forever Favre, Jordan, some individuals aren't as susceptible to the ravages of time as others.



Those athletes you consider going "forever" were done by their early forties. In fact, by the end of their careers, they were sucking wind and shells of their past glories.


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## DLCRL (Jan 5, 2015)

Not really into sports, just saying you can go well beyond your prime if you're in the right shape. I can climb circles around guys younger than myself, all the companies I work with tell me that. I also don't think the rigors of my job are quite as demanding as those of a professional athlete, at least I hope they're not considering the discrepancy in pay.lol


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## Seedling345 (Feb 15, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Personally I'm not expecting to grow old, I've no kids if I have a heart attack, I don't wish to recover, I don't wish to change the way I live, I'm here temporarily then I'm gone. I really don't wish to get old and feeble, having to be cared for is not my idea of retirement.



I like your style sir


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BRT (Feb 20, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Personally I'm not expecting to grow old, I've no kids if I have a heart attack, I don't wish to recover, I don't wish to change the way I live, I'm here temporarily then I'm gone. I really don't wish to get old and feeble, having to be cared for is not my idea of retirement.


To each their own. You follow a long list of, (fill in the blank), who made the same statement/follow the same philosophy. Funny, most of the notables were in music/Hollywood, not trees. They abused their bodies with substances, not work 

Elvis Presley
Janis Joplin
Jimmy Hendrix
Kurt Cobain
Lenny Bruce
Chris Farley
John Belushi
etc.


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