# Burning Softwood



## PEKS (Nov 2, 2011)

Troops,
Is there any harm in burning softwood, spruce, pine in a wood stove. 
Thanks..


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## stumpy75 (Nov 2, 2011)

As long as it is seasoned, none what-so-ever. Many people burn nothing but softwood.


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## Hedgerow (Nov 2, 2011)

:agree2:
Softwood needs some love too... 
Burn it...


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## Coldfront (Nov 2, 2011)

I have been burning seasoned soft wood Poplar and Pine since Sept. no problem getting stack temp to 500°+ only draw back it does not leave a good bed of coals like over night. When it really gets cold I will burn hard wood just for the over night burn. There's not a darn thing wrong with burning soft wood, just don't pay hardwood price for it.


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## forestryworks (Nov 2, 2011)

PEKS said:


> Troops,
> Is there any harm in burning softwood, spruce, pine in a wood stove.
> Thanks..


 
Ask the Westerners.


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## avalancher (Nov 2, 2011)

PEKS said:


> Troops,
> Is there any harm in burning softwood, spruce, pine in a wood stove.
> Thanks..



Do a google search on "burning pine" and read all the articles. It will give you all the information that you need to be utterly convinced that if you throw so much as a toothpick made of pine in you stove your house will instantly burn down around your ears and your insurance company will refuse to cover the loss because of your negligence. Then look to see who wrote the articles. Probably some nitwit bean counter who writes articles on the side for "Ladies Home Sewing Circle" and assorted other rot.

Wood is wood.Period. The only thing that separates one chunk from another as far as being safe to burn is the amount of moisture in the wood. Some wood takes awhile to dry, some takes a whole lot less. Weather, storage, humidity, and species of wood all contribute to how fast a chunk dries out, but its all safe to burn once the moisture has left the wood. 

Will wet pine be more harmful than say wet white oak in your stove? Yes, it probably will. The conifers have a tendency to have a lot of pitch, and along with the moisture it can wreck havoc on a stove pipe or flue, and in short order burning wet pine can accumulate a great deal of creosote in your pipe. But with a careful seasoning plan, proper storage, and some common sense pine and other softwoods can be just one more useful fuel to use. In fact, many guys, myself included, stock an assortment of softwoods when a fast and hot fire is needed such as first thing in the morning. In fact, that is all I am burning right now, saving the hickory, pecan, and white oak for later in the year.


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## wudpirat (Nov 2, 2011)

Burns hot and fast but I but burn it. Also a lot easier to get than the premo hardwoods, almost seems like they beg you to take it away. :msp_biggrin:
I prefer Hemlock but well seasoned pine is OK.


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## PEKS (Nov 2, 2011)

Excellent info..
Thanks guys..
Cheers


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## jags (Nov 2, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> Ask the Westerners.



Or the folks in Canada and Alaska -where it gets REALLY cold.


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## russhd1997 (Nov 2, 2011)

I know it's not a wood stove but I burn a lot of softwood in my OWB to control the bed of coals. If I burn strictly hardwood the coals will just keep piling up in the bottom of the firebox until I don't have enough room to put in a nights worth of wood.


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## Coldfront (Nov 2, 2011)

Bottom line as long as you season it, burn what ever is readily available in your area, of course hardwood will get you the most btu's per pound of wood.


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## jags (Nov 2, 2011)

Coldfront said:


> of course hardwood will get you the most btu's per pound of wood.



Not true. ALL wood has about the same BTU per pound, its just that you get more pounds per stick with hardwoods.


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## vinced (Nov 2, 2011)

avalancher said:


> Do a google search on "burning pine" and read all the articles. It will give you all the information that you need to be utterly convinced that if you throw so much as a toothpick made of pine in you stove your house will instantly burn down around your ears and your insurance company will refuse to cover the loss because of your negligence. Then look to see who wrote the articles. Probably some nitwit bean counter who writes articles on the side for "Ladies Home Sewing Circle" and assorted other rot.
> 
> Wood is wood.Period. The only thing that separates one chunk from another as far as being safe to burn is the amount of moisture in the wood. Some wood takes awhile to dry, some takes a whole lot less. Weather, storage, humidity, and species of wood all contribute to how fast a chunk dries out, but its all safe to burn once the moisture has left the wood.
> 
> Will wet pine be more harmful than say wet white oak in your stove? Yes, it probably will. The conifers have a tendency to have a lot of pitch, and along with the moisture it can wreck havoc on a stove pipe or flue, and in short order burning wet pine can accumulate a great deal of creosote in your pipe. But with a careful seasoning plan, proper storage, and some common sense pine and other softwoods can be just one more useful fuel to use. In fact, many guys, myself included, stock an assortment of softwoods when a fast and hot fire is needed such as first thing in the morning. In fact, that is all I am burning right now, saving the hickory, pecan, and white oak for later in the year.



Very well put!!!!


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## forestryworks (Nov 2, 2011)

jags said:


> Or the folks in Canada and Alaska -where it gets REALLY cold.


 
Go to Stanley, Idaho or Gunnison, Colorado sometime. Gets pretty damn cold there.

Stanley is routinely the coldest place in the Lower 48.


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## vinced (Nov 2, 2011)

russhd1997 said:


> I know it's not a wood stove but I burn a lot of softwood in my OWB to control the bed of coals. If I burn strictly hardwood the coals will just keep piling up in the bottom of the firebox until I don't have enough room to put in a nights worth of wood.


 
What I do when my OWB gets too many coals from burning all hardwood is pick a day when I'm home (like a Saturday) and just let it burn the coals down. I have to babysit it a bit but I can go about 8 hours on coals sometimes. Then when the coals get burnt down I empty the ash pan and I'm good for a few more weeks of straight hardwood. Like you, I love to burn soft wood when I get a good bed of coals.


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## Highbeam (Nov 2, 2011)

jags said:


> Not true. ALL wood has about the same BTU per pound, its just that you get more pounds per stick with hardwoods.


 
Also not true, almost though. Cottonwood is technically a hardwood and some common softwoods are tamarak or douglas fir. You get more pounds per stick of doug fir than cottonwood or willow.

Worry about wood density and not about whether it has leafs.


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## gwiley (Nov 2, 2011)

russhd1997 said:


> I know it's not a wood stove but I burn a lot of softwood in my OWB to control the bed of coals. If I burn strictly hardwood the coals will just keep piling up in the bottom of the firebox until I don't have enough room to put in a nights worth of wood.


 
Those coals are heat waiting to be harvested!!!! Rake the coals and put less wood in to encourage the coals to work for their money. Based on my experience with my OWB it sounds as though you are over-feeding the beast.


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## borat (Nov 2, 2011)

Up here, conifer wood is a fair percentage of fuel wood for people who cut their own. Smart people burn it, but those that haven't a clue avoid it. They erroneously think that all conifer wood has too much pitch in it and is bad for the stove/chimney. They're the folks who don't know one end of a chainsaw from the other and pay for birch, which is the primary fuel wood sold in this area. 

One of my favourite firewood sources is standing dead jack pine. Jacks tend to die off when mature and will shed their bark after a few years standing dead (like some elms do). At camp, there are plenty of opportunities for clean, dry jack pines 50' or more tall and 16" or more in diameter. Much of it is clear of branches and when you drop the tree any bark that was hanging on it, falls off. I just buck the tree and put nice clean rounds onto the trailer. 

It's the fast food of firewood. Clean, dry, readily available and burns like no tomorrow. I like to put in full 16" long rounds 10" to 12" in diameter for overnight burns. They throw off a lot of heat and last respectably as well.


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## gwiley (Nov 2, 2011)

I love pine rounds - typically don't bother to split them, just through them whole into the OWB. Leaving them unsplit slows the burn down a bit.


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## jags (Nov 2, 2011)

Highbeam said:


> Cottonwood is technically a hardwood



I know the technical def is defined as anything with a leaf but that is seriously flawed for the exact reason you state. I would never consider Cottonwood in the category of hard wood, but that might just be me. Balsa wood is also in that category and is known to be one of the lightest, softest woods available. That alone negates the "hardwood - with a leaf argument" to anyone willing to put it to the test.


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## forestryworks (Nov 2, 2011)

Cottonwood is some foul smelling stuff. Stink sticks.


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## WidowMaker (Nov 2, 2011)

Coldfront said:


> Bottom line as long as you season it, burn what ever is readily available in your area, of course hardwood will get you the most btu's per pound of wood.




===

Don't ya just hate it when ya step in it like that with your eyes wide open...


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## WidowMaker (Nov 2, 2011)

jags said:


> Not true. ALL wood has about the same BTU per pound, its just that you get more pounds per stick with hardwoods.



====


I suppose that depends on the size of the stick,,by the way howmany face cords a stick????


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## jags (Nov 2, 2011)

WidowMaker said:


> ====
> 
> 
> I suppose that depends on the size of the stick,,by the way howmany face cords a stick????


 
.00126


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## neilg (Nov 2, 2011)

All I burn is some pine and mainly fir. Occasionally you get some pitchy trees but usually they're just like any other wood. Just don't stuff your stove full of pitchy wood and you'll be fine. Around here it's illegal to cut hardwoods out in the forest because they're so rare.


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## Metals406 (Nov 2, 2011)

Just like our BC brethren, we're stuck with "softwoods". Curiously enough, the name does not always do the Doug Fir justice, as it can be pretty hard and dense. Western Larch is also top tier firewood. It has different wood fiber characteristics, and even with a razor sharp chain, won't chip out like other woods. . . It also is notorious for "no-see-em" slivers in your hands.

Interestingly enough, the hottest fire I ever had in my stove was from Black Cottonwood. . . On a cold winter day, it got hot enough it melted my cast iron grate.

I'm also a firm believer in "round is better" for wood, as such, I like trees in the 12"-18" DBH range. Less splitting, and burns far slower than split pieces. But sadly, a lot of guys around here suffer from "Long bar syndrome", which leads to "big tree syndrome". They'll drive around for hours and mile after mile, to find the fir or larch that's 4' on the butt. It's a bear to yard them out, harder to handle, and then you have to split for hours to get it into manageable/burnable pieces. Those same guys will leave a top along side the road, where they stopped cutting at 12". . . Guess it was too "small" for them.


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## forestryworks (Nov 2, 2011)

Metals406 said:


> I'm also a firm believer in "round is better" for wood, as such, I like trees in the 12"-18" DBH range. Less splitting, and burns far slower than split pieces.



I agree with that. For the two people I sell firewood to, I find 10-12" straight stuff on trees at least 40ft tall with small live crown ratios. Not many knots, easy splittin', and only one split per round.


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## Highbeam (Nov 3, 2011)

jags said:


> I know the technical def is defined as anything with a leaf but that is seriously flawed for the exact reason you state. I would never consider Cottonwood in the category of hard wood, but that might just be me. Balsa wood is also in that category and is known to be one of the lightest, softest woods available. That alone negates the "hardwood - with a leaf argument" to anyone willing to put it to the test.



Like it or not, the definition is what it is. Leafs = hardwood and that includes balsa. Anybody willing to use the term "hardwood" needs to then be aware of what they are saying and not screw it up. The only thing negated is somebody that decides that they can change the definition of words to suit their lack of understanding. 

I don't like face cords either!


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## jags (Nov 3, 2011)

Highbeam said:


> Anybody willing to use the term "hardwood" needs to then be aware of what they are saying...



I treat the use of the term "hardwood" similar in nature to "Higgs Boson" - its hypothetical and therefore can not be proven. (just a joke Highbeam, just a joke).

Balsa to "hardwood" makes about as much sense as "apartment", when they are all stuck together.


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## forestryworks (Nov 3, 2011)

Highbeam said:


> Leafs = hardwood



So conifers don't have leaves? :monkey:


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## Highbeam (Nov 3, 2011)

I always thought they had needles. ?


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## Carl Anderson (Nov 3, 2011)

I had a bad experience burning pine. My wife and I were only married a couple years and I was a caretaker at a summer camp while I finished college. We lived in a small caretakers cottage rent free. It was just before Christmas and unusually cold. I was told the woodstove was fully functional and ready to be used for the winter and I had been using it a lot with no problems. Then one night I tossed some scrap pine in it and we fell asleep downstairs watching tv in the same room as the stove. We woke up and I noticed a thin layer of smoke along the top of the ceiling. Like an idiot I peeked upstairs which was our bedroom and saw flames on the wall near where the stovepipe had been run inside the wall. I told my wife the house was on fire and to call 911. 

We were isolated a little as the camp was empty for the winter except for us, I had to drive up the road to unlock the gate for the fire trucks to get in which took a little while. The place burned to the ground and we lost most of our belongings except what I was able to save before the fire got really bad but we were not hurt. The next day the fire marshal said it was not our fault, that the wood around the pipe in the wall had just gotten so old and dry that the flashpoint was very low and with the hot fire from the pine it just ignited. I couldn't believe that but he said he has seen it before with these really old buildings. He told me it would have been OK with a good chimney instead of just the pipe, or if the house was not so old and the wall materials were not so super dry. I dunno but I don't burn pine in my house even though I have a good chimney and a house that is only 31 years old.

We never slept downstairs before but glad we did that night. The smoke alarm was in the kitchen and had not gone off yet. Don't know why there wasn't one upstairs. I was young and stupid and just assumed the place was all set and I didn't think to check for more smoke detectors, very stupid of me. So we both woke up out of a sound sleep at the same time for no reason, it was quiet and the smoke was only upstairs and at the very top of the ceiling downstairs so we didn't even smell it yet when we first woke up. I guess the Good Lord had us fall asleep downstairs then woke us up in time. I still shutter to think what might have happened had we gone to bed upstairs that night like every other night.

The moral of the story is if you are going to burn a softwood, especially one that may have more pitch, don't do it if you don't have a good, clean chimney that is not too old. If you have just a stovepipe instead of a chimney be even more cautious, I wouldn't do it at all. Sorry for the long story.


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## turnkey4099 (Nov 3, 2011)

WidowMaker said:


> ====
> 
> 
> I suppose that depends on the size of the stick,,by the way howmany face cords a stick????



Depends on whether it is a "bush stick" or a "pulp stick" 

Harry K


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## stumpy75 (Nov 3, 2011)

Highbeam said:


> Like it or not, the definition is what it is. Leafs = hardwood and that includes balsa. Anybody willing to use the term "hardwood" needs to then be aware of what they are saying and not screw it up. The only thing negated is somebody that decides that they can change the definition of words to suit their lack of understanding.
> 
> I don't like face cords either!



+1

In my neck of the woods, hardwood = deciduous trees(lose all their leaves in the fall) and softwoods = conifers(cone-bearing trees...Evergreens - usually have needles and lose only some of their needles(leaves) every fall). 

With the exception of larch (tamarack) and dawn redwood(among others), that are conifers(cone bearing) that drop all their needles in the fall. 

How soft or hard or heavy or light the wood is makes no difference. Balsa is a hardwood. So is cottonwood and poplar. Douglas fir and larch are softwoods. 

*Conifer(softwood):*
Tree Identification - The Conifers

*Desiduous:*
deciduous - definition of deciduous


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## Garmins dad (Nov 3, 2011)

Carl Anderson said:


> The moral of the story is if you are going to burn a softwood, especially one that may have more pitch, don't do it if you don't have a good, clean chimney that is not too old. If you have just a stovepipe instead of a chimney be even more cautious, I wouldn't do it at all. Sorry for the long story.



You best stay out east then.. No hardwood here to burn.. Spruce, pine, poplar, tamarack. That about sums up our wood situation here...


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## 1harlowr (Nov 3, 2011)

Garmins dad said:


> You best stay out east then.. No hardwood here to burn.. Spruce, pine, poplar, tamarack. That about sums up our wood situation here...



It always amazes me how we here in the east somehow can't burn pine. Do the laws of nature somehow change when we cross the Mississippi River or the Rockies. 

It isn't that pine shouldn't be burnt, we just need to learn HOW to burn wood, any wood, here in the east.


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## forestryworks (Nov 3, 2011)

Highbeam said:


> I always thought they had needles. ?



They have leaves. They are just needle shaped.

What you want to say is hardwoods = broadleaved trees.


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## Carl Anderson (Nov 3, 2011)

Garmins dad said:


> You best stay out east then.. No hardwood here to burn.. Spruce, pine, poplar, tamarack. That about sums up our wood situation here...



Right, I'm sure you guys who burn a lot of softwoods know what you are doing and have no issues. I was just pointing out what can happen if you're not safe about it, especially for guys back east who don't burn much softwood. I'd hate for anyone else to have to learn the hard way. 

If I had no hardwood available I would burn the softwoods, I'd just make sure my chimney was extra clean, etc. My dad burns pine and he has no issues but he has a newer chimney that is kept clean. I do have a block chimney that I sweep several times a year and I'm much more experienced after 17 years of wood burning in my own home so I'm sure I'd be fine this time around but with plenty of hardwood available why bother finding out.


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## zogger (Nov 4, 2011)

*That sucks*



Carl Anderson said:


> I had a bad experience burning pine. My wife and I were only married a couple years and I was a caretaker at a summer camp while I finished college. We lived in a small caretakers cottage rent free. It was just before Christmas and unusually cold. I was told the woodstove was fully functional and ready to be used for the winter and I had been using it a lot with no problems. Then one night I tossed some scrap pine in it and we fell asleep downstairs watching tv in the same room as the stove. We woke up and I noticed a thin layer of smoke along the top of the ceiling. Like an idiot I peeked upstairs which was our bedroom and saw flames on the wall near where the stovepipe had been run inside the wall. I told my wife the house was on fire and to call 911.
> 
> We were isolated a little as the camp was empty for the winter except for us, I had to drive up the road to unlock the gate for the fire trucks to get in which took a little while. The place burned to the ground and we lost most of our belongings except what I was able to save before the fire got really bad but we were not hurt. The next day the fire marshal said it was not our fault, that the wood around the pipe in the wall had just gotten so old and dry that the flashpoint was very low and with the hot fire from the pine it just ignited. I couldn't believe that but he said he has seen it before with these really old buildings. He told me it would have been OK with a good chimney instead of just the pipe, or if the house was not so old and the wall materials were not so super dry. I dunno but I don't burn pine in my house even though I have a good chimney and a house that is only 31 years old.
> 
> ...



--no apologies needed for a story like that. But, the fire marshal told you the truth, it was the cabin construction, inferior. A lot of older structures have inadequate aspects to them, bad wiring jobs, bad plumbing, bad chimneys (and usually always way inadequate insulation). 

Always a good idea to check that stuff out, even if renting or caretaking like you were. 

Like what the others mentioned, huge areas of the planet, all they can get is sappy pine or pine like wood, and for the most part, use it comfortably.

FWIW, my closest call was burning primo kiln dried factory scraps of birch and maple (rock hard, ultra dry hardwoods), just loaded a scosh too much into the stove.....dang thing sounded like a jet turbine once she lit off. And that's with emergency shut the air intake off all the way (old non airtight stove, still had leaks and cracks). While it was running like that I was emergency gathering up all the important stuff and hustling it out to the truck, just to pull away from the house, I was convinced it was gonna burn down, but it didn't, just cleaned the chimney out good


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## Garmins dad (Nov 4, 2011)

Carl Anderson said:


> Right, I'm sure you guys who burn a lot of softwoods know what you are doing and have no issues. I was just pointing out what can happen if you're not safe about it, especially for guys back east who don't burn much softwood. I'd hate for anyone else to have to learn the hard way.
> 
> If I had no hardwood available I would burn the softwoods, I'd just make sure my chimney was extra clean, etc. My dad burns pine and he has no issues but he has a newer chimney that is kept clean. I do have a block chimney that I sweep several times a year and I'm much more experienced after 17 years of wood burning in my own home so I'm sure I'd be fine this time around but with plenty of hardwood available why bother finding out.



Sorry.. i reread what i posted.. It sounds like i was jumping on your arse... That was not the case. Again I appoligise.. We have VERY strict building codes here when it comes to wood burning appliances. I treat all woods the same when i burn.. I keep in mind Its burning wood.. my house is mostly wood.. If there was hardwood to burn i would be all over it.. I keep reading.. 8 to 10 hours of burn with a full load and dry wood. I wish.. When its -40 i'm up every 3 to 4.5 hours to feed the beast.. but its worth it to keep the gas bills down.. and hey.. Its a excuse to buy more saws....:biggrin:

That was a ####ty ordeal you went through.. Glad to hear all you lost was belongings. It could have been worse.. I think your right.. The big guy was watching out for you both. Be safe no matter what you do.. My fire marshal asked me why i have a smoke detector in each room.. I told him.. I LOVE my family.. shouldn't that be enough reason..


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## Coldfront (Nov 4, 2011)

jags said:


> Not true. ALL wood has about the same BTU per pound, its just that you get more pounds per stick with hardwoods.



Ok my bad, I meant btu's per cord.

I have sure burned a lot of pine and don't seem to ever have a problem with creosote. Just because pine is light weight doesn't mean it is dry wood, you still need to season it, and I find with pine if you have a moisture meter you can get it down below 12% moisture fairly easy.


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## PEKS (Nov 4, 2011)

Total wealth of information here.
So, is the softest hardwood, harder than hardest softwood..:msp_sneaky:


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## Carl Anderson (Nov 4, 2011)

Garmins dad said:


> Sorry.. i reread what i posted.. It sounds like i was jumping on your arse... That was not the case. Again I appoligise.. We have VERY strict building codes here when it comes to wood burning appliances. I treat all woods the same when i burn.. I keep in mind Its burning wood.. my house is mostly wood.. If there was hardwood to burn i would be all over it.. I keep reading.. 8 to 10 hours of burn with a full load and dry wood. I wish.. When its -40 i'm up every 3 to 4.5 hours to feed the beast.. but its worth it to keep the gas bills down.. and hey.. Its a excuse to buy more saws....:biggrin:
> 
> That was a ####ty ordeal you went through.. Glad to hear all you lost was belongings. It could have been worse.. I think your right.. The big guy was watching out for you both. Be safe no matter what you do.. My fire marshal asked me why i have a smoke detector in each room.. I told him.. I LOVE my family.. shouldn't that be enough reason..



No worries, I didn't take it as being jumped on. I don't even know what the exact codes are but that little cabin was well over 100 years old so they just did whatever. I bet it had never been inspected at all. I did learn a valuable lesson though and I like to think I'm a safer burner from it. And I have smoke alarms everywhere now too.

There are some guys who burn pine in CT too because it's still heat so I can't say I'll never do it but probably only during the day when I'm home to monitor it and I'm awake anyway so filling it up every few hours is no big deal. Stinks that you have to get up in the middle of the night to feed the stove but it is better than supporting OPEC any more than we have to.


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## stumpy75 (Nov 4, 2011)

PEKS said:


> Total wealth of information here.
> So, is the softest hardwood, harder than hardest softwood..:msp_sneaky:



No! :msp_rolleyes:

The softest hardwood is SOFTER than the hardest softwood. Or something like that... uttahere2: 

How much wood...Oh, wait, that another one, isn't it?


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## Garmins dad (Nov 5, 2011)

Carl Anderson said:


> Stinks that you have to get up in the middle of the night to feed the stove but it is better than supporting OPEC any more than we have to.



I'm a insomniac so I'm sitting here anyhow.. I just read all night.. pretty much any shop book i can get my hands on.. I wish my wood and steel shop wasn't attached to the house.. The amount of projects i could get done would be amazing..


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## Dalmatian90 (Nov 5, 2011)

> that the wood around the pipe in the wall had just gotten so old and dry that the flashpoint was very low and with the hot fire from the pine it just ignited.



Pyrolysis is the technical term for it.

It's beyond just being dried; the wood is slowly chemically altered by the long-term exposure to heat to be higher in carbon content and easier to ignite.

http://www.chimneycricket.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/pyrolysiscausesfires.pdf

You hear a lot fewer "partition fires" go out on the scanner nowdays then back in the late 80s; I assume that's as a lot of poorer chimneys have been replaced by properly installed insulated chimneys.


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## grandnational (Nov 6, 2011)

i burn softwood regularly, w/o incident... 

I cleared out a 100' oak last fall that had fallen in a cluster of tulip trees (poplar to non new englanders). The main spar of the oak took down 3 separate board straight tulips with it, so figuring it would be a sin to leave that nasty softwood just to rot on the ground, I bucked it up too. 

Fast forward to this year, and now it's being run through the insert with no problem. Lights super easy, lasts decently in the fire box even compared to maple or oak, and it dosen't leave a metric #### ton of coals in my tiny 1.8 ft3 so I can get home from work, start a small blaze with the tulip, then jam it full of oak when I go out for the evening and have a nice warm house when I return a few hours later.

That being said, I'm not going to go out of my way to bring softwood home when better wood is available...not because of the softwood part, but more because I hate the pitch/sap all over my hands, saws, truck, and maul. If pine was clean, I'd burn it all the time...


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## Metals406 (Nov 6, 2011)

I don't know what kind of pine y'all get into, but the pine I burn isn't full of pitch, or sticky, or gooey. Now, that doesn't mean you don't get the occasional tree or round with a few pitch pockets, but overall -- pine/fir/larch isn't pitchy at all. I guess when weighed against hardwoods, I can see how someone would say that though.

I've never had the opportunity to cut or burn hardwood. . . Does it have no resins/pitch/sap at all?

You want pitch, try your hand at cutting some piss fir (sub-alpine). That stuff is like a pitch factory.


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## forestryworks (Nov 6, 2011)

Metals406 said:


> I don't know what kind of pine y'all get into, but the pine I burn isn't full of pitch, or sticky, or gooey. Now, that doesn't mean you don't get the occasional tree or round with a few pitch pockets, but overall -- pine/fir/larch isn't pitchy at all. I guess when weighed against hardwoods, I can see how someone would say that though.
> 
> I've never had the opportunity to cut or burn hardwood. . . Does it have no resins/pitch/sap at all?
> 
> You want pitch, try your hand at cutting some piss fir (sub-alpine). That stuff is like a pitch factory.



Fresh cut Mulberry oozes out a white sticky sap.

Most hardwoods I've been around either have a specific smell to them (oak smells like a sour wet horse, not stinky like cottonwood though) or they don't really smell at all. Not many of them have the runs either.


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## grandnational (Nov 6, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> Fresh cut Mulberry oozes out a white sticky sap.
> 
> Most hardwoods I've been around either have a specific smell to them (oak smells like a sour wet horse, not stinky like cottonwood though) or they don't really smell at all. Not many of them have the runs either.





The oak I cut around here (red and white) has a very distinctive, sweet, earthy smell when first cut. People that don't even burn know what it smells like. Simply smelling burning oak in the air is enough to make most people go off into a tangent about how that smell reminds them of childhood Christmas/thanksgivings. The absence of the smell from stacked oak is an important way of knowing it's seasoning nicely.

Hardwood here has NO sticky pitch. None. I can't even imagine having to ONLY burn pine.


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## Metals406 (Nov 6, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> Fresh cut Mulberry oozes out a white sticky sap.
> 
> Most hardwoods I've been around either have a specific smell to them (oak smells like a sour wet horse, not stinky like cottonwood though) or they don't really smell at all. Not many of them have the runs either.



Well if'n them hardwoods don't have any sap, I could see fellas thinking there's a lot with pine.


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## gtsawyer (Nov 6, 2011)

Last year I cut a cord (which is pretty close to 15,320 cups for you kitchen-folk) of what I think was Douglas fir. Whatever it was left pitch all over the place - hands, bed of the truck, driveway, lawn, carpet, wife, kids, dog, etc., etc. The burn on the seasoned wood was great, and as others have noted; it was hot but didn't leave as many coals as the broad-leafed wood I normally burn. If it weren't for the pitch, I'd try to chase down more of the stuff, although I think I'd stay with the smaller diameter stuff. It sounded great in the insert too, as it was a chatty wood (lots of snap, crackle, and pop) although all the popping probably wouldn't make it good for an open fireplace. The larger diameter rounds were hard to split by hand, as the knots only would let you split large pie-wedges. A hydro splitter finally took care of the stuff left over from last year that I couldn't split by hand.


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## forestryworks (Nov 7, 2011)

Metals406 said:


> Well if'n them hardwoods don't have any sap, I could see fellas thinking there's a lot with pine.



Pinon Pine seemed to have a lot of sap when I cut some a week ago.

I've heard it is one of the hardest pines as well.

Sure did smell good.


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## Richard C (Nov 7, 2011)

Well, here we have thousands of Fir, all kinds, some pine and one Incense Cedar. So we burn lots of Fir. It's a great wood.


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## Carl Anderson (Nov 8, 2011)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Pyrolysis is the technical term for it.
> 
> It's beyond just being dried; the wood is slowly chemically altered by the long-term exposure to heat to be higher in carbon content and easier to ignite.
> 
> ...



This is great info, thanks for getting it out here, rep sent. So it wasn't just the pine burning hotter then, my fire might have happened eventually even with lower temp burns since there wasn't enough clearance between the pipe and the wood. The hotter fire from the pine probably contributed to the fire happening when it did but it seems it was inevitable.

Here's another long winded part of the story (optional, ha ha :wink2 - 
We were only there a few months and hadn't gotten renters insurance either, the other stupid mistake but we were young and took dumb risks. At least most of our best belongings such as furniture were in storage because this cabin was too small for much of anything. We lost mostly just clothes and our older bedroom furniture. Funny thing, we have this Christmas decoration of an ice skating rink with little skaters going around on a glass pond (they make them plastic now) while it plays Christmas music. It survived the fire but was soaked and covered in soot. I remember my wife loved it so much that she meticulously cleaned every piece and I took it apart and replaced the white paper under the glass, etc. We still have it and our kids love it, nice reminder of how blessed we are to have gotten out OK.


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## testlight (Dec 25, 2011)

Here in Southern Southeast Alaska all we have is softwoods, and a little Alder that people use to smoke fish. From hot and short burning to longest burning we have red cedar, yellow cedar, spruce, pine and Hemlock. My favorite is Hemlock, but its hard or impossible to find dry.
As long as it is seasoned and dry you should be able to burn anything as long as you keep your stack temperature in check. Too hot is bad, too cold is worse. 
With a proper lay out and insulated pipe and a little sheet rock wood fire places are safe.


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## borat (Dec 25, 2011)

You don't have any tamarack or larch up there in Alaska? That makes very good firewood (for a softwood). Nasty stuff to split with a maul but no problem with a splitter.


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## BILLSFIREWOOD (Dec 31, 2011)

Hear in NC, we have all the hardwood we need. But if your home is cold, softwood [ pine] will heat it up faster than hardwood. :angry2:


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## rob206 (Jan 1, 2012)

I enjoy burning pine. Around my area most people don't gather it, so that makes it quite plentiful. Also, it is so much lighter than oak that I can really get a good haul of it out of the woods much faster. The fire box on my OWB is large enough that I can 12hr burns in single digit temps with pine. I keep a couple cords under a tarp next to my woodshed which holds the oak & maple. Next winter I will have a larger pile of pine and popple stacked and ready.


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## russhd1997 (Jan 1, 2012)

rob206 said:


> I enjoy burning pine. Around my area most people don't gather it, so that makes it quite plentiful. Also, it is so much lighter than oak that I can really get a good haul of it out of the woods much faster. The fire box on my OWB is large enough that I can 12hr burns in single digit temps with pine. I keep a couple cords under a tarp next to my woodshed which holds the oak & maple. Next winter I will have a larger pile of pine and popple stacked and ready.



To help control the amount of coals that build up in my OWB I mix pine, hemlock and other softwoods right in with my hardwoods. I generally try to fill the firebox with softwood during the day and with hardwood for overnight.


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## rob206 (Jan 1, 2012)

russhd1997 said:


> To help control the amount of coals that build up in my OWB I mix pine, hemlock and other softwoods right in with my hardwoods. I generally try to fill the firebox with softwood during the day and with hardwood for overnight.



I have a similar routine. I try to burn more pine when I'm home and stack the oak by the boiler for my wife when I'm gone. I frequently throw just a stick or two of pine on top of a thick bed of coals, combined with stirring it up a bit, and I can get a full day of heat some times.


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## Bushmans (Jan 1, 2012)

Quite an interseting thread. Sure to start some arguments at work with this one. Around these parts any type of pine is taboo. If you were to state that you burned pine in your stove you would here the necks snapping as people whipped their heads to look at you in disbelief. On the other hand I know a few guys with owb and they will burn anything in those including wolmanized 4x4s, dead animals, pre 1990 Yugos and an occasional lost child.
We never stop to think that every other place in this world isn't stocked with oak, ash, cherry and hickory.
I guess it's just what you grow up hearing your whole life so it must be true right?
Great thread and thanks for the info.


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## Streblerm (Jan 1, 2012)

It is funny that people think you can't burn pine/spruce in an inside stove or furnace. I have scrounged wood from many people who have never burned a stick to stay warm in their lives, yet they are sure that you can't burn it inside. I have stopped arguing with people and I just tell them that I will be safe and only burn it in my outdoor firepit. The argument that many people live and heat with wood in areas where there are no deciduous trees falls on deaf ears.

I am glad to have good hardwoods available, but I never pass up wood that is close to home and easy to get. It all keeps me warm. I try to mix it in the pile so I am not burning just pine. There is nothing better for some easy starting quick heat than a few splits of nice dry seasoned pine or spruce.


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## PEKS (Jan 1, 2012)

We have an abundance of hardward here also, hickory, ash, oak, maple and so on..
I have lately cut some spruce, cleared a lot for a family member, adds to the mix..
_(Gnarly & Sappy, fingers are sticking to the keyboard here..)_


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## Metals406 (Jan 1, 2012)

So far this year, I have burned Doug Fir, Larch, and Spruce. . . And dare I say, none of it was seasoned a lick. :biggrinbounce2:

No excessive creosote buildup, no chimney fires. . . Business as usual.


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## turnkey4099 (Jan 1, 2012)

PEKS said:


> We have an abundance of hardward here also, hickory, ash, oak, maple and so on..
> I have lately cut some spruce, cleared a lot for a family member, adds to the mix..
> _(Gnarly & Sappy, fingers are sticking to the keyboard here..)_



I hate sticky fingers but it is easilyi cured by just rubbing some dirt on them until the job is done.

As for burning pine the only real danger is chucking a knotty piece wth lots of pitch in it on the fire. A glowing red stove pipe is nota pleasant sight. Did it once as a kid and don't ever care to repeat it.

Harry K


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## Landsinn (Feb 12, 2012)

I've been using dried pine branches for years for kindling not really knowing about how safe it was to burn the main portions. After getting the info in here I was pumped!!!! Got a new 290 and needed some trees to break it in. In the woods surrounding my house are many large seasoned fallen pines. Up till now were using them for paintball shelters to hide behind and as I said, kindling sticks. Went out yesterday and cut several pieces up and even cut the pieces in half to get more use with the saw, then split by hand. The wood looked a little reddish in color but just overnight turned into a nice light colored wood. Today is one of the few days temps got in the single digits so to off set my main source of wood been adding the seasoned pine to the wood stove and house has been staying nice and warm. Can't wait to get out and cut some more up. Great info in here and glad I've become a part of this site!!!!!!


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## redprospector (Feb 13, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> So far this year, I have burned Doug Fir, Larch, and Spruce. . . And dare I say, none of it was seasoned a lick. :biggrinbounce2:
> 
> No excessive creosote buildup, no chimney fires. . . Business as usual.



So far this year, I've burned Aspen, Ponderosa Pine, SW White Pine, a little Gambel Oak, and my favorite...Doug Fir. It hasn't been too cold this winter, but I got a little over zellous a time or two and had to open up the doors to cool things off a little.

Andy


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## CTYank (Feb 13, 2012)

Landsinn said:


> I've been using dried pine branches for years for kindling not really knowing about how safe it was to burn the main portions. After getting the info in here I was pumped!!!! Got a new 290 and needed some trees to break it in. In the woods surrounding my house are many large seasoned fallen pines. Up till now were using them for paintball shelters to hide behind and as I said, kindling sticks. Went out yesterday and cut several pieces up and even cut the pieces in half to get more use with the saw, then split by hand. The wood looked a little reddish in color but just overnight turned into a nice light colored wood. Today is one of the few days temps got in the single digits so to off set my main source of wood been adding the *seasoned pine* to the wood stove and house has been staying nice and warm. Can't wait to get out and cut some more up. Great info in here and glad I've become a part of this site!!!!!!



Just because wood has been down dead for an extended period does not mean it's "seasoned" (dried sufficiently for burning.) You'll likely find much of it quite wet (high MC.) Air-drying really _starts_ when the wood is cut, split and stacked.


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## deerlakejens (Feb 13, 2012)

I run a small landscaping business and end up hauling off a lot of wood debris. Most all goes through the chipper to become mulch but anything over a few inches in dia. ends up cut to stove length in the wood stacks. Over the years, this has included a wide variety including English Ivy vine trunks, Rhododendrons, plenty of pine, dogwoods, laurels and so on. They all have btus and might as well be used to heat my house as anything else. I burn the small stuff when I just need to take the chill out of the house or on days I'm home to feed the stuff a little more frequently. Only thing better than free is when you get paid to remove it!


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## Metals406 (Feb 13, 2012)

redprospector said:


> So far this year, I've burned Aspen, Ponderosa Pine, SW White Pine, a little Gambel Oak, and my favorite...Doug Fir. It hasn't been too cold this winter, but I got a little over zellous a time or two and had to open up the doors to cool things off a little.
> 
> Andy



It was like that in here last night Andy! Threw some 6"-8" Lodgepole rounds on and shut the stove down. Before long, the house was 80+ degrees -- waaaay too bloomin' hot!

It's tough burning wood when it gets close to 40° outside. . . Cold enough for a fire, but not cold enough that it doesn't want to cook ya out.


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## Landsinn (Feb 13, 2012)

CTYank said:


> Just because wood has been down dead for an extended period does not mean it's "seasoned" (dried sufficiently for burning.) You'll likely find much of it quite wet (high MC.) Air-drying really _starts_ when the wood is cut, split and stacked.



Thanks!!!! I've been finding that out, that some do not burn well and need to be seasoned. I'm hauling them out of the woods and into the yard and from time to time will split and stack to let them dry out more. I have plenty of seasoned hard wood on hand and just have to slow down with my excitement with the pine. Appreciate the helpful information!!!!!


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## arborealbuffoon (Feb 14, 2012)

I currently live where more deciduous trees are considered indigenous than most places on the planet. It is a firewood scrounge's wet dream.

I have also lived 800 miles west of here where ponderosas grow like weeds. In the Paha Sapa, these are the only ubiquitous fuel wood tree.

I haven't been cold a single time in either setting.


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## 70flyingv (Feb 14, 2012)

Well seasoned pine is great! I just clean the flue really well annually and burn the creosote remover every so often during the season just to be safe. I have always used cedar kindling to get the stove going in short order if I have been gone for a few days or to bring it back up if I wait to long in the morning or when I get home in the evening. 

On a side note: By FAR the best firewood I have ever had ( not a softwood ) was some large holly that I had seasoned for about 3 years. The oak I burn can't even come close. Like having coal in your fireplace!


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