# This job pays too little! Looking for advice.



## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 17, 2016)

I am an arborist's girlfriend. I'm looking for some opinions or advice. My BF has been doing tree work for 15 years. He currently works for a big-name tree care company and is a crew leader. He is often told that he is the best climber they have in their division, and they get him to teach other climbers the ropes at workshops. My impression is he is very good at what he does. He is paid about $23 an hour. With variability in weather, he often is forced to take days off and this doesn't amount to a whole lot per year. Unfortunately he is a smoker and spends $300 a month on that habit. he has tried quitting and hasn't been able to. His firm offers health insurance but he is unable to afford it or any insurance at all - the cheapest runs to $40 per week.

He sometimes works 10 hour days and weekends because his reps do not do a good job of allocating work to the right number of people. he is too modest and quiet to bring any of this up with his bosses, but it makes me mad. He tells me how frustrated he feels, but never takes it up with them. I have a mind to call them myself (I know, I am an interfering gf, aren't I).

He would love to work a job at an arboretum where he can work on the same trees over the years, but most such jobs require a degree and he has only had high school. I asked him to apply anyway as I thought his experience might be valued, but he refused. I have asked him to speak with a career counsseler to see what his options are but he has not done it. I don't know if we could pay for school for him, but I am a professor at a university and he might be able to get something off of tuition. But the thought of us only living on my salary seems like a huge leap to take when we are not even sure of the prospects after he would get a degree.

Finally, he hates the idea of doing a desk job....really likes being outdoors. I wish there were forester jobs, but those seem to pay even less. he is not very business minded, so I doubt he would try to strike out on his own.

I would be glad to hear any thoughts or advice people have.


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## IyaMan (Jun 17, 2016)

I would say he deserves more, but unless he asks, he isn't gonna get it. I think a good climber would be get about $250-300/day cash, but that's an estimate from what I've heard (a friend of mine was a climber, but that was 10 years ago). If he's also running the crew, maybe it'd be more. 

Note that many people here run their own businesses and must need to pay their own climbers/crew chiefs, including in Pennsylvania. Not saying people will be dishonest, but do factor in that they may not wish to set any precedents on compensation levels.



chainsaw_chomper said:


> Unfortunately he is a smoker and spends $300 a month on that habit. he has tried quitting and hasn't been able to. His firm offers health insurance but he is unable to afford it or any insurance at all - the cheapest runs to $40 per week.



Ouch! So he spends $70 a week to damage himself, but can't afford $40 to take care of himself. Imagine the boss said this: "We'll give you free health insurance and a dollar more an hour as long as you quit smoking." If that was the case, would he quit? Cause its about the same thing.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jun 17, 2016)

chainsaw_chomper said:


> I am an arborist's girlfriend.
> 
> 
> My condolences.


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## unclemoustache (Jun 17, 2016)

Well, maybe I'm looking a little too deep into this, but it seems like you want to change him, and a guy doesn't respond too well to that kind of treatment. If there are that many things about him that bug you, then perhaps you ought to find yourself a different guy, because if he doesn't change for you on his own, then he cares more about himself than about you, and his annoying quirks are only going to wear you out.


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## BC WetCoast (Jun 18, 2016)

If he is working for a big name tree company ie Davey/Bartlett/Asplundh, then perhaps he can apply for a transfer to a division where the weather is conducive to working every day.

I work on the West Coast. Unlike the East, we work every day, rain or shine. If it's raining, you put on your rain gear, swear a bit and get on with it. A culture shock for those coming from the East.

If you want him to make more money, he has to get out of the tree business. $23-25/hr is about max around here unless you are a Cert Utility Arborist working on powerline clearance, where you have to be in the Union (IBEW) and you make $30.


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## acer-kid (Jun 18, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> If he is working for a big name tree company ie Davey/Bartlett/Asplundh, then perhaps he can apply for a transfer to a division where the weather is conducive to working every day.
> 
> I work on the West Coast. Unlike the East, we work every day, rain or shine. If it's raining, you put on your rain gear, swear a bit and get on with it. A culture shock for those coming from the East.
> 
> If you want him to make more money, he has to get out of the tree business. $23-25/hr is about max around here unless you are a Cert Utility Arborist working on powerline clearance, where you have to be in the Union (IBEW) and you make $30.


Wow... us sissy East coasters make more than that! I wouldn't dream of showing up for 25/hr.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 18, 2016)

unclemoustache said:


> Well, maybe I'm looking a little too deep into this, but it seems like you want to change him, and a guy doesn't respond too well to that kind of treatment. If there are that many things about him that bug you, then perhaps you ought to find yourself a different guy, because if he doesn't change for you on his own, then he cares more about himself than about you, and his annoying quirks are only going to wear you out.



Thanks for reminding me of this very important truth. I'm aware of this possibility and I'm now old enough to realize you either accept the other person's habits or end it. The reason I am asking for advice because *he* complains almost daily how little he gets paid for how much he works and the fact that he picks up so much of the slack for his coworkers. Last night he searched on the net "How much do the best climbers make" and later lay in bed asking me - "what other careers could I have?" Since I don't know anything about the intricacies of the work, I'm trying to get a sense of whether he should be asking for more, or whether there is some other career he could pursue with the skills he has and how he could go about doing it. I think he feels frustrated that he has been working at it for 15 years and has earned about the same for the last 10.

Personally, I feel that he earns an about median income and together we earn a very good amount. If we live carefully and frugally, I don't see us having problems. I do see a couple of areas he can improve his spending on and I don't see a problem with pointing these things out. I also have habits that I can cut out on and save money. In fact, he is more of a cheapskate than I am (and proud of it), so I have no hesitation in suggesting ways we can save.

It is true that the health insurance issue bothers me. He refused to get insurance because of the price and because he thinks it's a ripoff (frankly, in the US, it kind of is, along with healthcare costs). Over the winter we both got very very sick with flus that lasted on and off for 3 months. He would get up and go to work everyday with a hacking cough after not having slept most of the night. On weekends where he got two days off, he would recover a little, but not really get over it. I think this period was hard for us to get through and this is what makes me want to help him get paid more/change his job (again! if he wants it, which it seems he does...). Nowadays he has bad allergies, and isn't sleeping well at night and can't see an allergist. It's kind of hard to just stand by and watch. I can't put him on my insurance because we are not married and domestic partners don't count as spouses.

I guess I also want to say that I really really admire him, and what he does. I think that he made a choice to work in an interesting profession (perhaps at the cost of some comfort and a higher pay), but I think its wonderful that he can be outside so much working in the trees that he likes being around so much. I am so proud of him when he tells me about how people ask him for advice on how to cut something down, or how he taught one of the rookies to tie a knot properly to bring a branch down a certain way or how he did a good, clean job for someone, or when he explains with a shoelace how something was tied improperly at another office and resulted in a branch falling through a person's roof . I love hearing him talk about trees, climbing, knots and plants. I love when he quizzes me on the trees in our neighborhood or when we're out hiking . He's a good guy, very kind to me and I just want to explore any possibility I can to help him get to where he wants to be.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 18, 2016)

acer-kid said:


> Wow... us sissy East coasters make more than that! I wouldn't dream of showing up for 25/hr.




Hmm, we are in southeast PA. What are the companies that pay so much?


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 18, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> If he is working for a big name tree company ie Davey/Bartlett/Asplundh, then perhaps he can apply for a transfer to a division where the weather is conducive to working every day.
> 
> I work on the West Coast. Unlike the East, we work every day, rain or shine. If it's raining, you put on your rain gear, swear a bit and get on with it. A culture shock for those coming from the East.
> 
> If you want him to make more money, he has to get out of the tree business. $23-25/hr is about max around here unless you are a Cert Utility Arborist working on powerline clearance, where you have to be in the Union (IBEW) and you make $30.




Yeah....unfortunately moving is difficult for us because of my university job. It's very very stable, but pretty hard to pack up and get a new one. After my postdoc at a UC, I moved to the east coast, but spent 5 years applying for jobs in CA and nothing worked out (and i think I am one of the lucky ones to have a tenure track job at all - a lot of my cohorts gave up). Trust me, if there is someone who is not a sissy about the weather, it's him. I am not sure why they pack up on very rainy days. I know he is fine working in the rain, so I don't know if its the bosses, or the rest of the crew or what. And during winter, work just seems to trickle in, really.

Also, as I clarified above - I don't want him to make more money. The money bothers him and he has said many times he wishes he could earn more - I just want to help him figure out if there is something he can be doing differently. And also, as I said above, I personally think that that salary is not too bad if you live carefully, which we do to a large extent but could be doing better.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 18, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> Ouch! So he spends $70 a week to damage himself, but can't afford $40 to take care of himself. Imagine the boss said this: "We'll give you free health insurance and a dollar more an hour as long as you quit smoking." If that was the case, would he quit? Cause its about the same thing.




He's tried to quit before (before we met). It's difficult and I can understand (even though I don't like the habit). He's been a smoker 20 years now, since he was a teenager, I can't imagine it is at all easy to quit.


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## ArtB (Jun 18, 2016)

_doing tree work for 15 years
_
So about in mid 30's or older ? I'm 70, have not climbed for over 10 years, less than 1/2 the strength I used to have which makes it more dangerous. After 35 everything physical only gets harder every day as I recall, and strength deteriorates more rapidly after 55 or so. Possibly time for BF to get the education you refer to ?

I recall RBTree is not a spring chicken anymore but still climbs, would be interesting to hear his take on the subject. 

From the net, university assoc profs pull down $80K year plus. Hard to understand the difficulty in living expenses. Possibly the BF wanting to make more is simply the income disparity is not good for male ego? I've always made more than my wife for the last 49 years, but am enough of a chauvinist to realize that it would be an ego bruise if she made more, but I'd never mention to her. It did not bother me though that she made more when she was working to help me finish school -- possibly relay that aspect to BF ? But of course we were already married and knew it was a lifelong commitment.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 18, 2016)

ArtB said:


> _doing tree work for 15 years
> _
> So about in mid 30's or older ? I'm 70, have not climbed for over 10 years, less than 1/2 the strength I used to have which makes it more dangerous. After 35 everything physical only gets harder every day as I recall, and strength deteriorates more rapidly after 55 or so. Possibly time for BF to get the education you refer to ?
> 
> ...



Yup, exactly, we are both mid-30's. He is very strong now, but I also worry about what will happen when he ages. We are not sure how he will go to school if he is not working. When he finished high school, he decided he was too poor to go to college and now he says he is too poor and too old. In any case, there would be the issue of finding a school where he can learn something that will pay off afterwards *and* not be an indoors desk job. Neither of us wants to take loans, and I think I should be able to afford it, but then money will be quite tight. On the face of it, I think he is happy for me that I earn a good wage, and he is not a chauvinist type at all. But these things are so built into us, and there may be some ego issue re money, but also the last few years after moving a couple of times and buying a car on a loan he says he does not have anything to put into savings these days and this bugs him. 

He says he does not want a free ride from me, and he wants to contribute equally to our expenses. We are thinking about purchasing a house and this is making the equation more complicated. At the moment we share expenses but we have not combined finances.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 18, 2016)

What kind of things would be useful to go to school for? ArtB, what did you go to school for?


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 18, 2016)

chainsaw_chomper said:


> Yup, exactly, we are both mid-30's. He is very strong now, but I also worry about what will happen when he ages. We are not sure how he will go to school if he is not working. When he finished high school, he decided he was too poor to go to college and now he says he is too poor and too old. In any case, there would be the issue of finding a school where he can learn something that will pay off afterwards *and* not be an indoors desk job. Neither of us wants to take loans, and I think I should be able to afford it, but then money will be quite tight. On the face of it, I think he is happy for me that I earn a good wage, and he is not a chauvinist type at all. But these things are so built into us, and there may be some ego issue re money, but also the last few years after moving a couple of times and buying a car on a loan he says he does not have anything to put into savings these days and this bugs him.
> 
> He says he does not want a free ride from me, and he wants to contribute equally to our expenses. We are thinking about purchasing a house and this is making the equation more complicated. At the moment we share expenses but we have not combined finances.



Stay in the business, get certified, go into management, 
that is what I did. I started climbing in 1977 and went into management in 2001, 
High school diploma is what I got and I do pretty good.
Jeff


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 18, 2016)

A 10hr day is a long day?


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 18, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> A 10hr day is a long day?



I think it's a matter of perspective. 10 hours of manual labor 6 days a week for little pay seems long. I only have to go into work 3 days a week for 2 hours of teaching each day and the rest of the time I sit on my behind thinking of new science. So I feel a 10 hour workday is long. BF doesn't think it is. Also 10 hours doesn't take into account an hour to get to work and get stuff ready and maybe 1-2 hours to drive back from jobs, put equipment away and drive back home.

In my original question, the reason I mentioned BF's frustration with 10 hr days was because he sometimes has to spend extra time fixing or cleaning his coworkers jobs. Working on his own he often gets the work done in under budgeted time.

If you're leaving home at 6 am and returning tired at 6 pm, when do you have time to contribute to a family? It's more of a general question. We don't plan on having kids, and I can entertain myself, but it doesn't seem like a climber has more than 2-3 hours of downtime if they want to get 8 hours of rest.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 18, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> Stay in the business, get certified, go into management,
> that is what I did. I started climbing in 1977 and went into management in 2001,
> High school diploma is what I got and I do pretty good.
> Jeff



What do you do in management? What is a typical day like?


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## ArtB (Jun 18, 2016)

chainsaw_chomper said:


> What kind of things would be useful to go to school for? ArtB, what did you go to school for?



Eye R ann injunear <G> 

Logging, etc. is a DIY 'pastime'/hobby, as we have 200ea up to 160 ft tall DFir and maple on our 'city lot' and also have and manage 32 acres of DFir and large alder near St. Helens. 
Built our own house (in 'spare time' largely out of trees we felled and built with (40 years ago when we had lots of energy!)


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## Jed1124 (Jun 18, 2016)

Good contract climbers around here are getting $400 a day.
That being said you do seem awfully up in his he how......
Just kidding, you must love him so much that you want to change him, no I mean help him and stuff....


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## BC WetCoast (Jun 19, 2016)

The most important class I took in university (have a bachelors in Forestry with a post grad diploma in Forest Engineering) was Accounting for non-commerce students. I've worked in a number of forest companies and engineering consulting firms and most of the technical stuff is done by the new grads. As you become more senior, you start managing projects and working with budgets. 

I would suggest he look at some form of business degree/diploma/certificate and parlay that with the technical skills he already has to improve his future. He may not want the desk life now, but one small slip one day can screw up his back/shoulder/knee/hips/neck and he will have to find a non-pysical job.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 19, 2016)

chainsaw_chomper said:


> I think it's a matter of perspective. 10 hours of manual labor 6 days a week for little pay seems long. I only have to go into work 3 days a week for 2 hours of teaching each day and the rest of the time I sit on my behind thinking of new science. So I feel a 10 hour workday is long. BF doesn't think it is. Also 10 hours doesn't take into account an hour to get to work and get stuff ready and maybe 1-2 hours to drive back from jobs, put equipment away and drive back home.
> 
> In my original question, the reason I mentioned BF's frustration with 10 hr days was because he sometimes has to spend extra time fixing or cleaning his coworkers jobs. Working on his own he often gets the work done in under budgeted time.
> 
> If you're leaving home at 6 am and returning tired at 6 pm, when do you have time to contribute to a family? It's more of a general question. We don't plan on having kids, and I can entertain myself, but it doesn't seem like a climber has more than 2-3 hours of downtime if they want to get 8 hours of rest.




I usually work around 100hrs a week, so average around 14hr days, 7 days a week. Generally from around 8am to 10-11pm.

I have no family though, just my dog and he comes to work with me.


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## Zale (Jun 19, 2016)

Sounds like your dog could use a rest.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 20, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> The most important class I took in university (have a bachelors in Forestry with a post grad diploma in Forest Engineering) was Accounting for non-commerce students. I've worked in a number of forest companies and engineering consulting firms and most of the technical stuff is done by the new grads. As you become more senior, you start managing projects and working with budgets.
> 
> I would suggest he look at some form of business degree/diploma/certificate and parlay that with the technical skills he already has to improve his future. He may not want the desk life now, but one small slip one day can screw up his back/shoulder/knee/hips/neck and he will have to find a non-pysical job.



Thanks, this is helpful to know.


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## JeffGu (Jun 20, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> ...but one small slip one day can screw up his back/shoulder/knee/hips/neck...



Yeah. Or worse yet, he could fall and break his ass! Then, he couldn't do the desk job, either. Not with a broken ass.
Man, life is hard.


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## MSgtBob66 (Jun 21, 2016)

I'm 49 and a Jr in a mechanical engineering program. I'm also a veteran, so that covers tuition and housing. My stumping business is my retirement, so I have something to do after retirement that gets me outside. If I can learn new things, so can the BF.
He needs to figure out that something soon. A CC is a great place to get a business AS degree so he can manage people and still get outside. Jeff got in when you didn't need a degree, now it is virtually mandatory for management.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 23, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I usually work around 100hrs a week, so average around 14hr days, 7 days a week. Generally from around 8am to 10-11pm.
> 
> I have no family though, just my dog and he comes to work with me.



That life isn't for everyone, but it sounds like you have it figured out. Dogs are the best! Ours is just a puppy but we are getting him to the point of spending the day at work with me.


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## no tree to big (Jun 24, 2016)

chainsaw_chomper said:


> What do you do in management? What is a typical day like?


Hah you don't even want to hear what Jeff does! That man leaves the house early to cone off parking lots stays late runs a bikini car wash on Saturdays and play with his tortoise on Sundays 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## HuskyHeadDave (Jun 25, 2016)

chainsaw_chomper said:


> Yeah....unfortunately moving is difficult for us because of my university job. It's very very stable, but pretty hard to pack up and get a new one. After my postdoc at a UC, I moved to the east coast, but spent 5 years applying for jobs in CA and nothing worked out (and i think I am one of the lucky ones to have a tenure track job at all - a lot of my cohorts gave up). Trust me, if there is someone who is not a sissy about the weather, it's him. I am not sure why they pack up on very rainy days. I know he is fine working in the rain, so I don't know if its the bosses, or the rest of the crew or what. And during winter, work just seems to trickle in, really.
> 
> Also, as I clarified above - I don't want him to make more money. The money bothers him and he has said many times he wishes he could earn more - I just want to help him figure out if there is something he can be doing differently. And also, as I said above, I personally think that that salary is not too bad if you live carefully, which we do to a large extent but could be doing better.





You should maybe try to pick up teaching some online classes and boost your income. Get usta the fact that you'll need to make more cash to cover the notes.... Or, buy a truck and s chipper and hire him!!! LMAO. Then you could give him a raise!


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## rarefish383 (Jun 26, 2016)

My cousin and I are 4th generation Arborists. Our Dad's both owned their own companies. In 1986 I kind of burned out on the 24-7 running a business. I went 3 years with out a vacation. So, I "retired", and went to work for UPS. I still did, and do, a little side work. The climber that helps me on week ends has been climbing for my cousin for over 30 years. I give him between $500 and $750 a day. He makes a bit more than your BF, I think he told me he makes about $30 an hour. If your BF could hook up with a small company that needs skilled climbers, he could make a couple big pay days a month helping them. If I were still in business, I could never pay my climber that kind of money in a real job, taxes, soc, comp, health. There are other things out there. My Teamster pension pays me more than my climber makes per year. But, most climbers I know are not happy unless they are climbing. Even while I was at UPS I'd hear a saw or chipper and ride around the block to see who it was. It's in the blood, it's hard to change, and I think it gets harder as you get older. He may do better with a reputable small company that pays by merit, instead of pay by scale. If he's good he could hook up with a landscape company that wants to branch out into tree work, and possibly get a cut of the tree work he does, as a bonus. We tend to stay in our comfort zone. To get ahead you have to get out of the comfort zone. If you seem happy at the level you are at, no one is going to jump out and give you more. They are in business to make money, not worry about you making money. It's a hard one, good luck, Joe.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 27, 2016)

HuskyHeadDave said:


> You should maybe try to pick up teaching some online classes and boost your income. Get usta the fact that you'll need to make more cash to cover the notes.... Or, buy a truck and s chipper and hire him!!! LMAO. Then you could give him a raise!




I did think of this - him running his own company. First, I am not sure I have enough cash lying around to buy everything that one would need to actually start making money quickly. It;s not just equipment, right? Don't you need insurance? Second, neither of us is a managing type and we'd probably be terrible at running a business. We'd have even less time away from boring busywork than we do now, a direction we don't want to go in.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 27, 2016)

rarefish383 said:


> My cousin and I are 4th generation Arborists. Our Dad's both owned their own companies. In 1986 I kind of burned out on the 24-7 running a business. I went 3 years with out a vacation. So, I "retired", and went to work for UPS. I still did, and do, a little side work. The climber that helps me on week ends has been climbing for my cousin for over 30 years. I give him between $500 and $750 a day. He makes a bit more than your BF, I think he told me he makes about $30 an hour. If your BF could hook up with a small company that needs skilled climbers, he could make a couple big pay days a month helping them. If I were still in business, I could never pay my climber that kind of money in a real job, taxes, soc, comp, health. There are other things out there. My Teamster pension pays me more than my climber makes per year. But, most climbers I know are not happy unless they are climbing. Even while I was at UPS I'd hear a saw or chipper and ride around the block to see who it was. It's in the blood, it's hard to change, and I think it gets harder as you get older. He may do better with a reputable small company that pays by merit, instead of pay by scale. If he's good he could hook up with a landscape company that wants to branch out into tree work, and possibly get a cut of the tree work he does, as a bonus. We tend to stay in our comfort zone. To get ahead you have to get out of the comfort zone. If you seem happy at the level you are at, no one is going to jump out and give you more. They are in business to make money, not worry about you making money. It's a hard one, good luck, Joe.



I've started driving out of my way to look too when I hear a chainsaw. I like the idea of trying to find a smaller company that pays by merit....we need to do a very thorough search and lots of calling people.


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## no tree to big (Jun 27, 2016)

Sooo Dude at work has this gf that complains when he has a day off then she complains when he works 5 or 6 days then complains he don't make enough then complains when he goes to make money then takes all his money then complains when he uses a very small amount of said money then complains when the money is gone n complains more when he goes to work.... do I know you?[emoji12] 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 27, 2016)

chainsaw_chomper said:


> I did think of this - him running his own company. First, I am not sure I have enough cash lying around to buy everything that one would need to actually start making money quickly. It;s not just equipment, right? Don't you need insurance? Second, neither of us is a managing type and we'd probably be terrible at running a business. We'd have even less time away from boring busywork than we do now, a direction we don't want to go in.



You need signed contract's,,
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 27, 2016)

chainsaw_chomper said:


> What do you do in management? What is a typical day like?



Ha ha,, I can't type that much,,,
Jeff


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## acer-kid (Jun 28, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> Ha ha,, I can't type that much,,,
> Jeff


I'll help you out Jeff.
"Little to nothing"
"Not enough to break the Sabbath"
"Fack all"
"Crack whips"
"Bluff"

Choose which best suits.
Have a beautiful day,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jun 28, 2016)

no tree to big said:


> Sooo Dude at work has this gf that complains when he has a day off then she complains when he works 5 or 6 days then complains he don't make enough then complains when he goes to make money then takes all his money then complains when he uses a very small amount of said money then complains when the money is gone n complains more when he goes to work.... do I know you?[emoji12]
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk



You might.....I nag arborists all over the country.


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## Marshy (Jun 28, 2016)

I think the best piece of advice for your BF is to strike up a conversation with his employer. If the company is a big one then he needs to ask them where the next step is for advancement. They might reward him by getting certified. Just ask him if he has discussed advancement with them, and if not, why not? Maybe the company considers him to already be at the top of the ladder so to speak for climbers. They might tell him they could use him as an estimator which he may or may not need some education for (if he'll spring for it). If he's dead set on being a climber and only a climber then he still needs talk with them and bring to light all of the "extra" effort he gives and what the future holds for him. Tell him, "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten". That's the truth.


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## acer-kid (Jun 28, 2016)

Marshy said:


> Tell him, "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten". That's the truth.


I think that's the best advice you've got so far. I'd run with that. If it doesn't work out, start looking at plan b.


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## Babaganoosh (Jun 28, 2016)

Here is my best piece of advice for you, your boyfriend, and most anyone in life. Yup, there's always a list of reasons not to. The kids, the job, the parents, the school....but in the end it is almost always worth it to make a change in an unhappy life.


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## bad69bird (Jun 30, 2016)

ArtB said:


> _doing tree work for 15 years
> _
> So about in mid 30's or older ? I'm 70, have not climbed for over 10 years, less than 1/2 the strength I used to have which makes it more dangerous. After 35 everything physical only gets harder every day as I recall, and strength deteriorates more rapidly after 55 or so. Possibly time for BF to get the education you refer to ?
> 
> ...


Me and my wife live in Southeastern pa, and probably make make around simalar money to them but with me on the high end and the wife on the low end. Sure you can get by with much less money but if you want to do anything besides just get by I can see where they could have money issues


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## cre73 (Jul 11, 2016)

Sounds like he should be making more but has to approach it correctly. On the smoking, smoked for 20 years. Quit cold turkey 18 months ago. Before I quit had constant sinus infections, constant cough , nose running. Couldn't sleep at all. Always said it had nothing to do with smoking. Boy was I wrong haven't had an issue since. No cough no runny nose no sinus infections since. Sleep better than ever when work leaves me alone. Yeah it was a ***** but well worth it. It's great not having my kids tell me how much I stink.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 13, 2016)

[QUOTE="MSgtBob66, post: 5897170, member: 64444. A CC is a great place to get a business AS degree so he can manage people and still get outside. Jeff got in when you didn't need a degree, now it is virtually mandatory for management.[/QUOTE]

Hey Bob, I hope you do not think that I got a 'Free Ride', no I did not,
the test's are much easier than in the old day's,,
my cert treeworker test in '91, (WC-449),it was an oral and a work climb and aerial rescue,,although 
it took me two times to pass the cert. arb, (we-7624A), just once to get my CTSP Cert#519, got all my 'Qualified line clearance,,etc,,
I started in this biz and my Dad said that was stupid ,, "you can't make money doing trees,,,"
You are right about needing all the mandatory stuff, but that does not mean I got lucky,,
in fact,,those newbie degree guy's are taking test and passing by multiple choice answers and that is so much easier,,,just look at the pool of cert arb's and then look at their experience, 

Oh, been a busy week and I may have been a little harsh,,forgive me,
I just get a little riled when someone does not think I paid my due's.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 13, 2016)

rarefish383 said:


> My cousin and I are 4th generation Arborists. Joe.



Really?,, What are you ISA Certified Arborist number's, 
Jeff


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## rarefish383 (Jul 13, 2016)

Gee Jeff, I guess I should have said my cousin and I "WERE" 4th generation Arborist's. He's 68 years old and retired 8-10 years ago. I'm 60 and retired last year, form UPS. Why would I know his MD Tree Expert License #, we didn't work together. His Dad owned his business and my Dad owned his. I put in my post that I kind of burned out and gave up the business in 86, and went to work for UPS for 30 years. I did take and pass the MD Tree Expert License Test in 1999. If you notice that I repeated the "MD Tree Expert License Test". MD did not recognize the ISA test till late 99 early 2000, I was in the last class that took the MD Tree Expert License Test. But, just for you, I'll PM you photo copies of my test scores, and MD certification. I'll also send you copies of my Dad's certification cards with License Numbers of 70 and less. That will give you 2 generations. When my Grandfather and Great Grandfather were doing tree work there were no licenses. So, I guess you will have to trust me on that one. I'll send you a copy of one of my cousins business cards and you can look up his info, it's public record. My cousin sold his company to his brother in law several years ago, but he still owns the property the yard is on, so he may still own part of the company and may still have his license. He is not a member of this site so I'll leave his name out. If you are happy with the info I PM you, great. Nowhere in my post did I say I was still licensed. When I said the climber that helps me has climbed for my cousin for over 30 years, that's true. But he now climbs for my cousins, wife's, sister's, husband, that's who is buying his business. Doesn't that take up a lot of space and sound kind of stupid? So my question to you is, if you retire or let you license laps, does that mean you are no longer an Arborist. Does that mean the years I spent at MD U as a Botany Major don't count anymore. Was any of the advice I put forth bad? Sorry for the long ramble. If I new how to scan that stuff in I'd do it now, but I don't. In the morning I'll take pics with my cell and PM them to you, Joe.


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## rarefish383 (Jul 14, 2016)

Jeff, this post is getting kind of old, so I didn't read all you posted in the past couple days. I was going to say the old MD Tree Expert Exam was much harder than the ISA test, but figured you wouldn't believe it. Then I saw you said the same thing in your post. We didn't have to do any climbing or rope work for the test. Most people think tree guys are dumb yocals. When I tell people how much Law, Geology, Pathology, Electricity, Physics you need they are just dumbfounded.

"It's been a busy week". That's a good thing. 

Why would you get riled because someone on an internet forum questioned if your dues were paid? That's what people on the internet do. 

I'm 60 and beat up. Just had my left knee replaced, have "arthur" in both wrists and shoulders. Every time I go into Ace Hardware I turn down offers for a job. We had an applicators license too, and even after 30 years I'm still pretty up on chemical applications. When I bought my new 660 for milling, and knew more about saws than the guy on the floor, they tried to hire me again. Ace likes old guys, they figure they know a lot. I know a little, maybe because I pay attention? I know I've been here since 09 and you post lots of good info. I would think you would say the same about me. I don't encourage people to break the law or do stupid stuff that can cause them trouble the rest of their lives. Some of my advice may be dated, but a lot of dated practices still work. Did you get the stuff I sent you? After I get a couple cups of coffee in me I'll send you copies of the rest. Stay busy my friend, Joe.


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## rarefish383 (Jul 14, 2016)

Jeff, I've always liked your Avatar. My kids got me one of those DNA test kits for my birthday. I'm 60% Scandinavian. My mothers birth name was Kristiansen, maybe we are long lost cousins, Joe.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 14, 2016)

rarefish383 said:


> Jeff, I've always liked your Avatar. My kids got me one of those DNA test kits for my birthday. I'm 60% Scandinavian. My mothers birth name was Kristiansen, maybe we are long lost cousins, Joe.



Dang man!,,my rile is reactionary and I never mean to be mean,, I guess I come off that way, I am sorry I was harsh and sorry in the future if I do it again,,(lol),,
I really like your posts and hope you are not to offended,, I always assume we all have our 'man-suits' on, I will try to be nicer,,
Jeff


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## newsawtooth (Jul 14, 2016)

Cut it out you two and get back to fightin'.


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## rarefish383 (Jul 15, 2016)

Oh Crap, don't worry about being mean. Men were meant to be mean. Vikings didn't say they were sorry for tromping on a village. They just grabbed a couple pretty girls by the hair and took them home. Just know that an old fat guy that can hold a Homelite 1050 at chest height, has enough left in him to grab at least one pretty girl by the hair and drag her home, Joe.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jul 18, 2016)

cre73 said:


> Sounds like he should be making more but has to approach it correctly. On the smoking, smoked for 20 years. Quit cold turkey 18 months ago. Before I quit had constant sinus infections, constant cough , nose running. Couldn't sleep at all. Always said it had nothing to do with smoking. Boy was I wrong haven't had an issue since. No cough no runny nose no sinus infections since. Sleep better than ever when work leaves me alone. Yeah it was a ***** but well worth it. It's great not having my kids tell me how much I stink.



Well done!!!

Did you go nuts? BF says if he tries that he would feel like killing the whole world.


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## chainsaw_chomper (Jul 18, 2016)

bad69bird said:


> Me and my wife live in Southeastern pa, and probably make make around simalar money to them but with me on the high end and the wife on the low end. Sure you can get by with much less money but if you want to do anything besides just get by I can see where they could have money issues



Plus if the lower earner feels he wants to contribute equally to everything, you become a little restricted.


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## Cupocoffee (Jul 24, 2016)

chainsaw_chomper said:


> I am an arborist's girlfriend. I'm looking for some opinions or advice. My BF has been doing tree work for 15 years. He currently works for a big-name tree care company and is a crew leader. He is often told that he is the best climber they have in their division, and they get him to teach other climbers the ropes at workshops. My impression is he is very good at what he does. He is paid about $23 an hour. With variability in weather, he often is forced to take days off and this doesn't amount to a whole lot per year. Unfortunately he is a smoker and spends $300 a month on that habit. he has tried quitting and hasn't been able to. His firm offers health insurance but he is unable to afford it or any insurance at all - the cheapest runs to $40 per week.
> 
> He sometimes works 10 hour days and weekends because his reps do not do a good job of allocating work to the right number of people. he is too modest and quiet to bring any of this up with his bosses, but it makes me mad. He tells me how frustrated he feels, but never takes it up with them. I have a mind to call them myself (I know, I am an interfering gf, aren't I).
> 
> ...



I retired ten years ago and never intended to work another day in my life. I hated punching that time clock but I accidentally got into the tree stump grinding business when I lost 65 trees on my property after an ice storm. I bought a small diesel stump grinder and did some advertising on Craigslist to offset the cost. It turned out that I could pick up some pretty good money, so I moved up a notch to a 35 HP diesel stump grinder, then several years later ended with my current 66 HP stump grinder. If your BF loves the outdoors, and he is already in the tree business, stump grinding might be an option for him. I could write a book on stump grinding. I am always surprised when I see posts from guys who say they hate stump grinding. With the right equipment, the right attitude, the right location, and the right marketing he could make more than he ever dreamed he would with about 1/3 the time he is spending on his current job. It wouldn't happen overnight. I tell people who are getting into this business there are two things which will put you out of business very fast and that is if you don't charge people enough money and also if you charge too much money. There is a fine line between the two. This seems to be a shady business in some senses. I get many jobs where customers call and tell me a guy was supposed to show up three days ago and he never showed and won't answer his phone. I have never showed up late for a job ... ever. I always have clean shirts in my truck because this can be a dirty and sweaty business so I never show up on a job site with a sweaty shirt. I invested heavily in this business with all new equipment. That isn't possible for many people. I would suggest renting a medium size, diesel, self propelled stump grinder for a couple of months and put an ad up on Craigslist every day and see what kind of response he gets. He might be one of those who hates stump grinding. Even when I first started my business, I never hustled work. In other words, I don't knock on doors. There are a millions of stumps out there. When I bought my Carlton SP7015 in November 2012, I paid $53,000 for it (same one is $65,000 today). When I was loading it on my trailer in South Carolina, a man from NYC had shown up to buy one like mine. Carlton didn't have any on their lot. The man from NYC offered me $10,000 more than I paid for it on the spot, in front of their salesman. That was right after Hurricane Sandy and he knew he would pay the machine off just from that storm. I didn't take the offer. I have never chased storms to make money but since he knew his area, I am sure he knew what he was doing. If your BF is not good with people this is not the business to be in.


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