# Help getting into the industry



## rmtlogging (Feb 16, 2012)

Hey guys I really want to be a logger but since I live in central california that is easier said than done I wouldj like to be a cutter (me and my cousin have alittle tree service and falling is my favorite part of the job) but I want to learn the other jobs and work my way up if there is any advise you ave it will be apprieciated


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## Gologit (Feb 16, 2012)

Why do you want to log? Not bagging on you, just curious.


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## rmtlogging (Feb 16, 2012)

I have since I was I little kid and always just been fascinated with it


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## Gologit (Feb 17, 2012)

rmtlogging said:


> I have since I was I little kid and always just been fascinated with it



Okay, I'll see if I can answer your question. You're not going to like what I have to say.

Becoming a faller if you have no actual logging experience is almost impossible. A lot of the falling now is done by machinery and the machinery, from a production standpoint, is the most efficient way to go.

The fallers cut the stuff that's too big or on ground too steep for the machines. That fact alone necessitates experienced fallers and there are still plenty of those around. In fact there are always more fallers than there is work for them. Always. I don't see this changing any time soon. If anything, the need for fallers will gradually decrease over time. 

We'll always need guys who can fall big timber or work steep ground but that's not the kind of stuff that you put a rookie on. I know that makes it tough...you can't get the job without experience and you can't get experience without the job. Cutting trees in an urban arborist environment just doesn't count.

The only guys breaking into falling right now are usually the relatives or friends of established loggers. There are so few job slots available that it's hard to make a steady living at it. Very few do. Also, consider the fact that it's a nomadic lifestyle with no job security, no retirement, no health plans, paid holidays, paid vacation, or overtime. Most fallers are independent contractors and that means they run their own numbers...take care of their own taxes and such.

If you want to go logging you need to think more about operating machinery. Running a skidder is a good place to start if you can find somebody to train you. After that you can progress to a delimber or a hotsaw and maybe eventually wind up running a shovel. But...even those jobs usually have experienced people lined up to take them.

So, there it is...the view from the inside. It's not real pretty but I think it's accurate. If you really want to log, start making the rounds of logging outfits. They're getting their crews together now for the season and maybe you'll get lucky.


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## forestryworks (Feb 17, 2012)

Last year, the boss man was gonna put me on the skidder 2 or 3 times a week in addition to some falling, and bucking on the landing.

A week later he shut down cause the mill changed the specs that only a handful of guys could meet.

My chance went bye bye and so did I.

Try again.


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## rmtlogging (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks for all the input. And thank you for being realistic


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## slowp (Feb 17, 2012)

I noticed last week, that one of the larger outfits had a signboard outside their shop wanting experienced log truck driver(s). Some of their guys were getting a bit long in tooth. More so than Gologit. :msp_smile:


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## madhatte (Feb 17, 2012)

Buddy of mine's driving truck out of Clatskanie, and a day's route is likely to have him as far south as Florence and as far north as Pt Angeles in a single day. He still makes it home every night (Kelso) but WOW are those some long hours.


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## Gologit (Feb 17, 2012)

slowp said:


> I noticed last week, that one of the larger outfits had a signboard outside their shop wanting experienced log truck driver(s). Some of their guys were getting a bit long in tooth. More so than Gologit. :msp_smile:



Pffffttt!


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## Gologit (Feb 17, 2012)

rmtlogging said:


> Thanks for all the input. And thank you for being realistic



You're welcome. I wish I had better news for you.


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## Gologit (Feb 17, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> Last year, the boss man was gonna put me on the skidder 2 or 3 times a week in addition to some falling, and bucking on the landing.
> 
> A week later he shut down cause the mill changed the specs that only a handful of guys could meet.
> 
> ...



Yeah, but you're probably better off. You'd find out that there's two kinds of skidder drivers...those that have turned one over and those that will.

Besides it's an established and documented scientific fact....you lose IQ points for every day you spend on a skidder. The only machine that costs you more IQ points is a feller-buncher. :msp_biggrin:

Fallers and shovel operators get _smarter_ every day. Just ask 'em.


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## possumtrapper (Feb 17, 2012)

To get more experience you could advertise to local "farmers free land clearing for firewood type trees". Sell the wood to make your pay. This should give you a wide range of trees to practice on, and get you up to production speed, and get your saw running skills together. Take some pix of you and your work. If you have training modules like we do here, get one or two of those, then try somebody like Columbia Helicopters (assuming you're young and single) and get on the international helicopter logging circuit. There are heaps of options out there for you. Good Luck!


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## Joe46 (Feb 17, 2012)

To add to what Gologit so accurately stated a LOT of guys started out setting chokers(choker dogs). After spending time in the brush, and getting to know the fallers, if you really wanted to go that route you'd start talking to the cutters about breaking in. If they felt you had potential"maybe" they'd start breaking you in. There is a whole lot more to cutting timber than just putting it on the ground. Oh ya the book Del mentioned 2 of the names in the obits in the back of the book I'd known all my life. There is that aspect to logging also.


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## Gologit (Feb 17, 2012)

possumtrapper said:


> To get more experience you could advertise to local "farmers free land clearing for firewood type trees". Sell the wood to make your pay. This should give you a wide range of trees to practice on, and get you up to production speed, and get your saw running skills together. Take some pix of you and your work. If you have training modules like we do here, get one or two of those, then try somebody like Columbia Helicopters (assuming you're young and single) and get on the international helicopter logging circuit. There are heaps of options out there for you. Good Luck!



Cutting farmer's wood is _nothing_ like our logging here and there's no chance in hell it's going to get him up to "production speed". Logging, especially on the Left Coast has nothing in common with cutting firewood trees for some farmer down in the flat land. Not even close.

It might give him more experience with a saw, and that's good, but it will not prepare him for a Left Coast timber falling job.

We don't have "training modules" either...so _that_ advice doesn't apply.

I think the guy is sincere in wanting to log and there's not much chance for him here. Maybe he can come to your part of the world and have a better shot at doing what he wants to do. Help him out.


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## Gologit (Feb 17, 2012)

Joe46 said:


> To add to what Gologit so accurately stated a LOT of guys started out setting chokers(choker dogs). After spending time in the brush, and getting to know the fallers, if you really wanted to go that route you'd start talking to the cutters about breaking in. If they felt you had potential"maybe" they'd start breaking you in. There is a whole lot more to cutting timber than just putting it on the ground. Oh ya the book Del mentioned 2 of the names in the obits in the back of the book I'd known all my life. There is that aspect to logging also.



You said it right...most guys used to start out setting chokers, maybe move up to bumping knots on the landing, get to know a few fallers and, if things worked out, they'd get a chance at it.

Now you have to look hard just to _find_ a choker. Almost everything has grapples and a guy setting chokers is an unusual sight. Matter of fact, we were looking to tow a broke down truck awhile back and we couldn't _find_ a choker on the job anywhere.

There's still a few knot bumpers around but it's mostly stroker-delimbers and dangleheads on the landing now. Most of the jobs I see are almost fully mechanized and the only guys with their feet on the ground are the fallers.


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## possumtrapper (Feb 17, 2012)

Ooops, sorry, I thought everything grew big over there.! Here most farmers have some steep sidlings with 1 to 3 foot hardwoods, and some have 8 to 9 foot across the stump eucalyptus trees to drop. Some will pay good money if the felling is not straight forward. Anyway I just thought that type of work is a good way to get into selective cutting for helicopters. 

I'd be happy to help out with some work experience over here if those kinds of opportunities are not available there, (cutting, chokers, shovel) but I'd wanna see some photographic record of capabilities and responsibility first. It would be too much responsibility for me to try and teach somebody how to cut, but helping somebody broaden their experience and get work fit while I fed/housed them and they helped my production along for winter? That sounds like a win-win situation.


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## wowzers (Feb 17, 2012)

Around here almost no one is going to start out sawing. Most people start out hooking. Starting out hooking has its advantages in my opinion. If you have hooked you know how you would want the wood laid out, and also you will cut trees every day if you work on a line machine so that might be a way to start getting some experience. Just getting on for a company with no experience and not knowing anyone is going to difficult. I started out working for a forestry outfit in the summer and shoveling snow for a cutter in the winter time. It got my name out and let me meet some contractors. IMO if your serious about working in the woods your going to have to move logging area and start getting your name out. Best of luck.


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## 380LGR (Feb 17, 2012)

What about run run as fast as you can in the opposite direction?


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## Gologit (Feb 17, 2012)

possumtrapper said:


> Ooops, sorry, I thought everything grew big over there.! Here most farmers have some steep sidlings with 1 to 3 foot hardwoods, and some have 8 to 9 foot across the stump eucalyptus trees to drop. Some will pay good money if the felling is not straight forward. Anyway I just thought that type of work is a good way to get into selective cutting for helicopters.



No harm done. Your logging and our logging are different. Most of the helicopter logging I see is on ground too steep for any other kind of skidding. It almost has to be high value timber to make it pay. It costs us more to log with a helicopter, a lot more, so we need to see a monetary return to justify the expense.


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## Rounder (Feb 17, 2012)

I'll just second what everyone else said...try and find a job setting chokers, take any chance you can get to cut guy backs, keep your mouth shut, listen a lot.

After a few years, buy a pick-up, a few saws, a roll of chain, a grinder, set up a shop, forget about weekends. 

And it's always your fault....Doesn't matter how unrelated to the falling.


And keep your skin thick.


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## Gologit (Feb 17, 2012)

*Hey Sam*

I know how to get _into_ this business. How the hell do you get _out?_


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## slowp (Feb 17, 2012)

The sign is still there by the shop gate.


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## rmtlogging (Feb 17, 2012)

Thank you everyone, is there any state or area that is better than the other as far as hiering


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## Rounder (Feb 17, 2012)

Gologit said:


> I know how to get _into_ this business. How the hell do you get _out?_



Still working on that one Bob......I just don't know what the hell else I'd do. 

"Welcome to ####### ####ing Wal-Mart shoppers"................Fired. umpkin2:


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## Rounder (Feb 17, 2012)

rmtlogging said:


> Thank you everyone, is there any state or area that is better than the other as far as hiering



Not sure on that, but like others have said, hopping in a machine might be your best bet. If I could do college over again, I probably would have done diesel mechanic at the college of technology. If you can fix it and keep it running, people will want to keep you around.


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## hammerlogging (Feb 17, 2012)

I'd say you're looking to get on with a really small 2 or 3 man crew with a guy out cause he's always drunk or in jail. Ask a forester at a small sawmill, since they don't know #### about logging they'll think you're kinda neat for wanting to log and may turn you in to some contacts. That'll get you some experience and you can go from there.


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## bitzer (Feb 17, 2012)

We are actually running out of hand cutters in this part of the country. Or at least those that have any clue about what the #### they are doing. 

Bob- once you're machined outta work out there you can semi-retire on some of my short trees here. Half the tree = half retirement right?


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## madhatte (Feb 18, 2012)

bitzer said:


> We are actually running out of hand cutters in this part of the country.



I'll be knocking on your door if this gov't gig dries up. Don't ever wanna not be in the woods.


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## imagineero (Feb 18, 2012)

Gologit said:


> There's still a few knot bumpers around but it's mostly stroker-delimbers and dangleheads on the landing now. Most of the jobs I see are almost fully mechanized and the only guys with their feet on the ground are the fallers.



Sure does cut down on insurance costs/workers comp. We dont have a lot of manual falling in aus thesedays either. Old growth is locked away, and plantations are harvested well before the capacity of even mid sized iron is exhausted. Same story here with the ratio of workers to jobs. 

When i was in new zealand there was plenty of work, but it's hard to call it logging. It's all small stuff, plantation radiata mostly. It's well managed and pruned at regular intervals to promote growth and reduce knots to help make grade, but you can leave your wedges in the truck. You can mostly just shoulder it over. OHS always seems a few pleasant years behind most other developed countries over there.

Shaun


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## RandyMac (Feb 18, 2012)

I was fortunate enough to be born where I was and when. More importantly were my family connections or else I might will have found something else to do. My first payin' woods job at the ripe old age of 20, was falling timber. Which I wouldn't have gotten if my Grandad had the time to do it himself. He ponied me up in his stead, told me not to #### it up. I had a ten minute audition at the edge of a landing and was told to start on Monday. I raced to Eureka and bought a brand new chainsaw. As I was getting my gear together, my Grandad eased on by and told me it was bad luck to start a new job, with a new saw. He promptly confiscated my shiny new saw and directed me to his saws "pick one" he says. As I stood in horror, staring at relic class equipment, he pushed by and selected one for me. Oh my ####ing gawd!! I should have lunged for the big Homelite when I had the chance. I ended up with a forty pound wad of metal, vaguely formed as a chainsaw, oh yes, I started my falling career with a D.D. Terrill CS-7. While I wrestled with that antique, my dear old Grandad broke in my new chainsaw.
The most important lesson I learned on this first of all timber falling jobs, keep a close eye on the old ####ers, they will lead you astray every time.


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## slowp (Feb 18, 2012)

At least he didn't hand you an axe and misery whip. 

A guy here who learned from his dad said his dad would not come and cut him out when a tree sat back and got his saw stuck. He made him chop it out with his axe thinking that would make him learn faster.


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## Gologit (Feb 18, 2012)

slowp said:


> At least he didn't hand you an axe and misery whip.
> 
> A guy here who learned from his dad said his dad would not come and cut him out when a tree sat back and got his saw stuck. He made him chop it out with his axe thinking that would make him learn faster.



LOL...that's the way it was done. Before I was taught to fall I was taught to buck. The first couple of times I got hung up my uncle would cut me out and explain what I did wrong. Patiently. The next few times I got hung up he did the same thing, but not quite so patiently. This went on over a month or so. The timber was too big to chop your way out of so he had to walk back and take time away from falling.

I was a slow learner, and headstrong. Bad combination. He finally told me that when I got jammed I could just damn well cut my own self out. Or go home and stay there. After the first couple of weeks of having to walk back up the hill (it's always _up_ the hill) to the pickup to get the spare saw and getting further behind and having to work harder to catch up because I was spending so much time correcting myself, the light begin to dawn.

I still get hung up occasionally. It happens.


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## Slamm (Feb 18, 2012)

Gologit said:


> LOL...that's the way it was done. Before I was taught to fall I was taught to buck. The first couple of times I got hung up my uncle would cut me out and explain what I did wrong. Patiently. The next few times I got hung up he did the same thing, but not quite so patiently. This went on over a month or so. The timber was too big to chop your way out of so he had to walk back and take time away from falling.
> 
> I was a slow learner, and headstrong. Bad combination. He finally told me that when I got jammed I could just damn well cut my own self out. Or go home and stay there. After the first couple of weeks of having to walk back up the hill (it's always _up_ the hill) to the pickup to get the spare saw and getting further behind and having to work harder to catch up because I was spending so much time correcting myself, the light begin to dawn.
> 
> I still get hung up occasionally. It happens.



When going from newbie to experienced you certainly learn the benefits of going a little slower to actually get more done in the day.

I know when I was starting out I would try to cut as fast as I coulc ........... and that wasn't always the fastest overall, it takes a lot of trips to that second saw before some of use figure that out, LOL.

Sam


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## Gologit (Feb 18, 2012)

Slamm said:


> When going from newbie to experienced you certainly learn the benefits of going a little slower to actually get more done in the day.
> 
> I know when I was starting out I would try to cut as fast as I cut ........... and that wasn't always the fastest overall, it takes a lot of trips to that second saw before some of use figure that out, LOL.
> 
> Sam



Yup...I wish I'd kept a book of all the good things the old timers taught me. I think my favorite was '''if you'd just slow down a little you'd get done sooner."


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 18, 2012)

rmtlogging said:


> Thank you everyone, is there any state or area that is better than the other as far as hiering



If you *really* want this, move to a small logging town in Oregon or Washington.
Get a job anywhere you can to pay the bills.

Then find local bars with several trucks which look like the following picture, but filthy dirty with mud on the sides. Those are loggers trucks. Hang out at those bars around 4 or 5 pm on weekdays. Get to know the loggers. After a while you may find a job as a choker setter.

View attachment 224550


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 18, 2012)

Here are some logging companies...
(Stay away from the large cities.)

Oregon...
MapQuest Maps - Driving Directions - Map

Washington...
MapQuest Maps - Driving Directions - Map

Associated Oregon Loggers web site...
(Might poke around that and see if you can find logging companies and then the towns they are located in. Or call them if not on their web site.)
Associated Oregon Loggers: Home


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## 2dogs (Feb 18, 2012)

hammerlogging said:


> I'd say you're looking to get on with a really small 2 or 3 man crew with a guy out cause he's always drunk or in jail. Ask a forester at a small sawmill, since they don't know #### about logging they'll think you're kinda neat for wanting to log and may turn you in to some contacts. That'll get you some experience and you can go from there.



I was kinda thinking that going to jail on a Friday night cause you're drunk might just make you meet one of our local loggers.


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## lmbrman (Feb 18, 2012)

With all the mechanised crews around this area a niche has opened for small operators, guys with processors will not move into some of the smaller jobs, and with all the land fragmentation there are more of these small jobs all the time- too small for many crews to even look at , or bid on. Enter the smalltime operator who pays a fraction of the going rate, and he gets the job. 

I am not saying it is easy, but it is possible around here, and it is a welcome sight that a guy with a chainsaw and small equipment can learn some skills and make a profit for himself.

If you really want it, you will figure a way. Good luck in the search!


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## Rounder (Feb 18, 2012)

2dogs said:


> I was kinda thinking that going to jail on a Friday night cause you're drunk might just make you meet one of our local loggers.



For sure several of our hookers.


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## axeman73 (Feb 21, 2012)

You could try getting in with a landclearing company usually they fully mechanized and may train you on a skidder that might be the easier way but like the rest of the guys said above I second em I cut my teeth at a landclearing company


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## tbow388 (Feb 21, 2012)

*Nope*

I have no input on this since I am a chainsaw guy and weekend firewood cutter. 

That being said, The OP seems like a young man with a Big AxeMen Dream.

He needs to listen to everything you guys say and take it deep to heart. It is a VERY noble and respectful career but definitely not for the faint at heart!!!!

From what I have read and seen you have to be able to out work the best of the normal. I have always been able to out manual labor most folks easily (thanks to my dad instilling his work ethic in me) but could not keep up with the bottom of these timber guys.

You could look into getting into a team running pine in the south. We here are full of logging crews. Not necessarily the big woods west but it is timber industry.

My best of luck to the OP in chasing his dream!!!!


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## rmtlogging (Feb 23, 2012)

I talked to a company today in B.C. he said I need a class c or b B.C. fallers licence (not tottaly sure he was a little dificult to understand), I have looked at one school but iwas wondering if someone could give me suggestions on where to go


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## bitzer (Feb 24, 2012)

Its not as glamorous as it seems. 

Well, that is, unless you log in California where the punkins are plenty and the groupies flock at every turn!


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## forestryworks (Feb 24, 2012)

Be prepared for a hard knock life. Shutdowns and no pay. Sometimes, 6 or 7 day workweeks. Layoffs.

It ain't glamorous after the first month or so, but there ain't no other job like it


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## plasticweld (Feb 24, 2012)

rmtlogging said:


> Thank you everyone, is there any state or area that is better than the other as far as hiering




That is the perfect question, un like some of the other areas in the country it is tough to find guys who want to work and cut trees where I live. We have just recently had the gas companies come in and hire most of the skilled loggers who were marginal when it came to making a buck. The labor pool has dried up and we still do things the old fashion way when it comes to cutting. I know that if a guy came up today and told me he wanted to cut more than anything else and this is what he as always wanted to do I would probably give him a job, The only help I have now is my daughter part time. I own two skidders a log truck and just made a deal for a landing loader, I have every thing but help.


If she can get a job in the woods whats your excuse 






As said in the picture thread she set the machine on fire and lost two choker chains all before lunch and she still has a job. 

The northern Pa area and New York has some great timber and logging is still going strong


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## Oldtimer (Feb 24, 2012)

rmtlogging said:


> Hey guys I really want to be a logger but since I live in central california that is easier said than done I wouldj like to be a cutter (me and my cousin have alittle tree service and falling is my favorite part of the job) but I want to learn the other jobs and work my way up if there is any advise you ave it will be apprieciated



Here ya go my boy. Go EAST young man, this is the future of logging.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

linky to source

Cat, NCAPL Launch Comprehensive Logger Training.

This spring, Caterpillar will cooperate with Greenville, North Carolina’s Pitt Community College and the North Carolina Association of Professional Loggers to launch a comprehensive 12-week training program for logging equipment operators, combining classroom work and practical operating experience in the field. Caterpillar Forest Products is donating $1.25 million in equipment to the project, including a Cat 525C skidder, a Cat 573 wheel feller buncher, and a Cat 559 DS loader.

The program will “recruit” students from “tobacco-dependent, economically distressed, and/or rural counties in North Carolina.” However, anyone 18 years or older, including out-of-state residents, may apply. The curriculum will go beyond mechanical, situational awareness, and environmental concerns, and will also cover “employability and life skills”—how to get and keep a job and how to manage money.

Sponsors say they have already lined up 25 employers who have committed to hiring the program’s graduates, and that a job fair at the end of the training will bring employers and graduates together. Furthermore, between three and six months after a graduate has been placed in a job, both employee and employer will be contacted for follow-up evaluation of the training. “After conducting two training sessions the first year, we will probably run it once a year and move it to other colleges that want to work with the Association and host the training,” comments Pitt Community College’s dean of continuing education.

The program will be hiring two full-time positions—a training director and a logging supervisor; anyone interested should contact NCAPL’s Doug Duncan at [email protected]s e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it . 

*To apply to be trained in the program, request information from NCAPL by e-mailing [email protected]*


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## Oldtimer (Feb 24, 2012)

plasticweld said:


> That is the perfect question, un like some of the other areas in the country it is tough to find guys who want to work and cut trees where I live. We have just recently had the gas companies come in and hire most of the skilled loggers who were marginal when it came to making a buck. The labor pool has dried up and we still do things the old fashion way when it comes to cutting. I know that if a guy came up today and told me he wanted to cut more than anything else and this is what he as always wanted to do I would probably give him a job, The only help I have now is my daughter part time. I own two skidders a log truck and just made a deal for a landing loader, I have every thing but help.
> 
> 
> If she can get a job in the woods whats your excuse
> ...



Holy crud...The California kid could land a job, and if he's the right age, maybe a cute girlfriend who drives skidder!


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