# split & crush death while blocking down



## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

Today a pro warned (and scared the *hell* out of me) about something that can and does happen from time to time. You're on spikes, on a safety lanyard, making a block-down cut. The tree splits down the middle for whatever reason...stress you didn't think was there being relieved I would thing. It splits wide, forms a bug "Y". You are immediately killed, yes killed, by the tree taking all the slack out of your lanyard and crushing your internal organs against your main saddle strap. I know this sounds gory but there is no other way to describe it. Has anyone ever heard of this happening? Is there a way to survive it somehow, some sort of different lanyard setup that will let out some slack automatically in an emergency? Serious stuff....scary man...really scared me.


----------



## ozzy42 (Jan 10, 2009)

I have never heard of that happening bombing log chunks out.
The scenerio I think he may have been describing would be more like,,,cutting a top out with no,or improper face cut, and the top peeling over instead of releasing.That's why it is very important to know how different woods react to different cuts in different situations.


----------



## Stihl Alive (Jan 10, 2009)

never heard of the first scenerio. I've heard of what oz is takling about many times. Never happened to me, but a pro told me that most peels will catch your lanyard and yank you, but the weight of the limb with break the peel instead of crushing you against the tree. Painful yes, deadly no. 

I'm in no way an expert on trees, so it may be possible. Anyone ever heard of a peel pulling the climber so tight it killed him/her?


----------



## TDunk (Jan 10, 2009)

Stihl Alive said:


> I'm in no way an expert on trees, so it may be possible. Anyone ever heard of a peel pulling the climber so tight it killed him/her?



I never have. When i first started climbing i did just that, i never cut a face in the limb and just started cutting from the back. It jerked me around some and relized what happened and why. But i don't think it could pull you so tight into the tree that it would kill you.


----------



## Grace Tree (Jan 10, 2009)

You might want to do a search for "ripped off" on the "other" arborist site.
Phil


----------



## Dadatwins (Jan 10, 2009)

Maybe you are starting to realize that this is a dangerous business and want to stay with your day job. The situation that you refer to is possible but much depends on the size of the piece being cut and the species of tree. As for being scared, you should be, this job is dangerous as many here have told you.


----------



## tomtrees58 (Jan 10, 2009)

hey your the guy with the dear stand is that your next step:jawdrop: tom trees


----------



## Jimmychips (Jan 10, 2009)

Here's how to prevent being crushed: Attach both ends of your lanyard to a common, center point; forming a "circle" around the tree which you are not in. If the tree splits, or if you get some type of fiber tear, the tree will be exerting it's force on the closed circle you formed with your lanyard, and you will be outside the circle. You may be in a bad spot, but this method should prevent serious injury.


----------



## TreeTopKid (Jan 10, 2009)

Stihl Alive said:


> never heard of the first scenerio. I've heard of what oz is takling about many times. Never happened to me, but a pro told me that most peels will catch your lanyard and yank you, but the weight of the limb with break the peel instead of crushing you against the tree. Painful yes, deadly no.
> 
> I'm in no way an expert on trees, so it may be possible. Anyone ever heard of a peel pulling the climber so tight it killed him/her?



I've never heard of it happening but it is one of my biggest fears. If I'm doing a big aerial drop I always make sure my saw is super sharp, and the back cut to my hinge is completely accurate. Some trees are so supple ( Weeping Willow _Salix x sepulcralis 'Chrysocoma_ in Spring time for example ) I cut through the hinge completely when the limbs going where I want it. You can fell a large Weeping Willow in Spring and it still be attached to the stump by a hinge as small as an inch.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

tomtrees58 said:


> hey your the guy with the dear stand is that your next step:jawdrop: tom trees




Intersting that everybody but you realized how serious this post is. I don't see how being crushed 60 feet in the air is funny.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

Jimmychips said:


> Here's how to prevent being crushed: Attach both ends of your lanyard to a common, center point; forming a "circle" around the tree which you are not in. If the tree splits, or if you get some type of fiber tear, the tree will be exerting it's force on the closed circle you formed with your lanyard, and you will be outside the circle. You may be in a bad spot, but this method should prevent serious injury.



Sounds like a possibility...


----------



## ropensaddle (Jan 10, 2009)

Use middle d's early in my career I made a large snap cut and the whole
limb split I would have been crushed but get this; I was using an old leather
buck strap and it broke. I don't know how I had enough strength to stay on
that limb and it hurt like hell but I was ok after my manhood quit hurting.
I decide right then and there to start clipping in to the middle d's or both
to a side d so it will stop in the event of a split. It happened for several
reasons but was most attributed to old ice injury and our cheap company
with homelight trimsaws.


----------



## DK_stihl (Jan 10, 2009)

*Absolutely*



Stihl Alive said:


> never heard of the first scenerio. I've heard of what oz is takling about many times. Never happened to me, but a pro told me that most peels will catch your lanyard and yank you, but the weight of the limb with break the peel instead of crushing you against the tree. Painful yes, deadly no.
> 
> I'm in no way an expert on trees, so it may be possible. Anyone ever heard of a peel pulling the climber so tight it killed him/her?



This exact scenario happened to a buddy of mine that I went to school with. he had his lifeline in the other side of the tree, and was making the topping cut on the lead that he was safetied into. Upon making his back cut, the weight of the 20' top (heavy lean) split the trunk, and his wire core lanyard (hard to cut with a 192T) pulled him into the trunk and crushed his pelvis. The only reason he didn't get hurt worse was because the top finally snapped and relieved the pressure. On top of all this, his ground guy didn't climb, so he had to get to the ground on his own. Once he was on the ground, the ground guy told him to "WALK IT OFF!". I can't believe some people. The moral of the story is : take a smaller top.


----------



## 318firebug49 (Jan 10, 2009)

*Split remedy*

I keep a piece of grade 70-5/16 chain and a small binder with me, if there is any fear of a split I wrap above the cut if on the ground and below the cut (right at my lanyard) if in the tree. Usually, if you make your cuts right you won't have a problem, but it's always better to err on the safe side


----------



## johninky (Jan 10, 2009)

Read " Sometimes a Great Notion" by Ken Kesey or see the movie. Movie I believe had a different title.


----------



## Metals406 (Jan 10, 2009)

The tree splitting thing is pretty old school... It's said to have happened to guys topping huge spars back in the day with a double-bit.'

Word tell, is that only the best guys, with huge cast iron ballz were toppers. They got paid the most out of the logging crew, and were real tuff. In those big tall trees, the trunk diameter could still be huge! They would spend hours up there cutting out the top.


----------



## masiman (Jan 10, 2009)

That would have to be a smaller tree and the only thing that could get crushed would be what is in between the lanyard connection points.


----------



## moss (Jan 10, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Serious stuff....scary man...really scared me.



Good, very good sign, there is hope for you.  

That's why you should learn to climb before you consider chunking down trees. It's two different learning curves, you can't do them at the same time. It should be obvious which one you start on first. Any wrong decision while climbing can kill or maim you, any wrong decision while working in a tree can do the same and is even more likely to. So don't put them together as a beginner, one thing at a time.
-moss


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

318firebug49 said:


> I keep a piece of grade 70-5/16 chain and a small binder with me, if there is any fear of a split I wrap above the cut if on the ground and below the cut (right at my lanyard) if in the tree. Usually, if you make your cuts right you won't have a problem, but it's always better to err on the safe side



That sounds like a *really* good idea. I think I will be getting a short length of 70-5/16" chain real soon! It's like a seat belt...you could go your whole life without ever needing it but it sure feels a hell of a lot safer with it on.

Thanks man, seriously!


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

DK_stihl said:


> This exact scenario happened to a buddy of mine that I went to school with. he had his lifeline in the other side of the tree, and was making the topping cut on the lead that he was safetied into. Upon making his back cut, the weight of the 20' top (heavy lean) split the trunk, and his wire core lanyard (hard to cut with a 192T) pulled him into the trunk and crushed his pelvis. The only reason he didn't get hurt worse was because the top finally snapped and relieved the pressure. On top of all this, his ground guy didn't climb, so he had to get to the ground on his own. Once he was on the ground, the ground guy told him to "WALK IT OFF!". I can't believe some people. The moral of the story is : take a smaller top.



I would have used whatever life I had left in me to feed that ground guy into the chipper.


----------



## BCMA (Jan 10, 2009)

Years ago I heard of a climber that was killed when the large section of tree he was removing and tied into barber chaired ripping out his guts and rib cage. He made the mistake of not facing the section he was removing and only made a back-cut. This accident and death was preventable with proper training and experience. High-level tree work is not for the untrained or inexperienced lawn or landscape guy.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

BCMA said:


> Years ago I heard of a climber that was killed when the large section of tree he was removing and tied into barber chaired ripping out his guts and rib cage. He made the mistake of not facing the section he was removing and only made a back-cut. This accident and death was preventable with proper training and experience. High-level tree work is not for the untrained or inexperienced lawn or landscape guy.




Why do I keep hearing about guys not making face cuts? As green as I am, I would never even consider not making a face cut. It's...retarded.


----------



## nicholasthorn (Jan 10, 2009)

*lombardy poplar uk*

we have had this senerao working on ladder with harness & lanyard forgetting back cut or v we where rushing guys on rope pulling a 39-ft top splits down trunk & bends my 13-8 mtr ladder top rungs i didnt flinch an inch neverless could have been nasty always do a adquatre backcut or v first no expections 
nicholas 
2 x ms 280
2 x ms 460
2 x ms 660
2 x shindaiwa 269-t
1 x dcs 5000
1 x dcs7900


----------



## Fireaxman (Jan 10, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Why do I keep hearing about guys not making face cuts? As green as I am, I would never even consider not making a face cut. It's...retarded.



Sometimes if I have a very limited LZ I want a *SMALL* top or limb to fall streight down the trunk like a spear rather than falling perpendicular to the trunk. Sometimes I want to "Swing" a limb to one side or another. In my retarded condition I have the delusion that I can accomplish this safely by double wrapping my steel core flipline around the trunk below the cut or using some of the other tips offered in this thread. The holding wood normally cut with a back cut will swing the wood to a side a little, or hold it closer to the trunk as it falls.

But, admitting I am a retard, I DID learn to climb before I carried a chain saw up a tree (good advice Moss) and I learned to adjust my flipline at an elevation of 2 feet.

Climbing is dangerous. Chain saws are dangerous. The increase in danger when you try to learn both skills at the same time is exponential, not arithmetic progression.


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

Fireaxman said:


> Sometimes if I have a very limited LZ I want a *SMALL* top or limb to fall streight down the trunk like a spear rather than falling perpendicular to the trunk. Sometimes I want to "Swing" a limb to one side or another. In my retarded condition I have the delusion that I can accomplish this safely by double wrapping my steel core flipline around the trunk below the cut or using some of the other tips offered in this thread. The holding wood normally cut with a back cut will swing the wood to a side a little, or hold it closer to the trunk as it falls.
> 
> But, admitting I am a retard, I DID learn to climb before I carried a chain saw up a tree (good advice Moss) and I learned to adjust my flipline at an elevation of 2 feet.
> 
> Climbing is dangerous. Chain saws are dangerous. The increase in danger when you try to learn both skills at the same time is exponential, not arithmetic progression.



You missed the point and spammed the reply...


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> You missed the point and spammed the reply...



What he was getting at, Plas, is that a face cut isn't always a good thing and thinking that it is strict necessity is retarded. Like he said, if you want a branch to swing under you instead of snapping directly off or if you want to arrow cut so it flies straight down like a spear. Or what about when you tip tie a branch. Or you want to walk a branch one way or another. There's a whole list of different circumstances where different cuts in different wood offer different results. Blanket statements like the one you made are retarded and you would know this if you learned this type of work from the ground up. No matter how many questions you ask and how many responses you get you will never have this job figured out until you DO IT. And it's best to do it under the supervision of a trained professional ON THE JOB 
...or you die.


----------



## Nailsbeats (Jan 10, 2009)

I like that last part Blakes. Really drives it home.


----------



## randyg (Jan 11, 2009)

Jimmychips said:


> Here's how to prevent being crushed: Attach both ends of your lanyard to a common, center point; forming a "circle" around the tree which you are not in. If the tree splits, or if you get some type of fiber tear, the tree will be exerting it's force on the closed circle you formed with your lanyard, and you will be outside the circle. You may be in a bad spot, but this method should prevent serious injury.





And IFthe tree exerts ample force to break your closed circle, then you are no longer tied in to tree?????


----------



## randyg (Jan 11, 2009)

randyg said:


> And IFthe tree exerts ample force to break your closed circle, then you are no longer tied in to tree?????



Prevents serious injury untill you hit the ground perhaps?


----------



## fishercat (Jan 11, 2009)

*if you are that worried about it.*

go to Sherril tree and look at his.type it into search.

Friction Saver PRUSIK


----------



## randyg (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Today a pro warned (and scared the *hell* out of me) about something that can and does happen from time to time. You're on spikes, on a safety lanyard, making a block-down cut. The tree splits down the middle for whatever reason...stress you didn't think was there being relieved I would thing. It splits wide, forms a bug "Y". You are immediately killed, yes killed, by the tree taking all the slack out of your lanyard and crushing your internal organs against your main saddle strap. I know this sounds gory but there is no other way to describe it. Has anyone ever heard of this happening? Is there a way to survive it somehow, some sort of different lanyard setup that will let out some slack automatically in an emergency? Serious stuff....scary man...really scared me.



First step is to learn how to predict this situation and then use proper cutting technique to prevent split from happening. I will not begin and hope no one else attempts to explain those techniques here in print. You should have that shown in real life. I will share one alternative method of tying in however. NEVER rely solely on that flip line/lanyard. In addition, you should be tied in with your climbing line to a nearby tree, or co-dom leader. If you get injured or run into mean squirrel or bees or hornets, handy to have that climbing line already tied in and ready to descend on. 

When all I have is the very spar I am piecing down, I have the ring type friction saver around that spar near my knees or feet with climbing line through rings making choke hold on tree. If any possibility of a split exists, just un-clip flip line from one side of saddle and clip both ends of flip line to the same ring on saddle. You can't get squished, and if that "circle" breaks, you are still tied in with climbing line, ready to descend to mother earth and clean out pants.

PLEASE have this properly demonstrated before trying out on your own?


----------



## RedlineIt (Jan 12, 2009)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Fireaxman
> Sometimes if I have a very limited LZ I want a SMALL top or limb to fall streight down the trunk like a spear rather than falling perpendicular to the trunk. Sometimes I want to "Swing" a limb to one side or another. In my retarded condition I have the delusion that I can accomplish this safely by double wrapping my steel core flipline around the trunk below the cut or using some of the other tips offered in this thread. The holding wood normally cut with a back cut will swing the wood to a side a little, or hold it closer to the trunk as it falls.
> 
> ...



Plasmech said:


> You missed the point and spammed the reply...



No Plasmech, you were given first-rate advice. You were even told how you should learn to adjust your lanyard before you gain altitude, if you read carefully. 

This *IS* Arbo 101, Plasmech, but you insist on telling your instructors to bug off. Now, I agree, that is not trolling, that is just being an idiot.


RedlineIt


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 12, 2009)

RedlineIt said:


> Plasmech said:
> 
> No Plasmech, you were given first-rate advice. You were even told how you should learn to adjust your lanyard before you gain altitude, if you read carefully.
> 
> ...



I respect pro's who act like pro's. A message like this makes me think you are not one of them, calling a student an idiot...come on. If you don't like me, how about just not replying to me?


----------



## Plasmech (Jan 12, 2009)

randyg said:


> First step is to learn how to predict this situation and then use proper cutting technique to prevent split from happening. I will not begin and hope no one else attempts to explain those techniques here in print. You should have that shown in real life. I will share one alternative method of tying in however. NEVER rely solely on that flip line/lanyard. In addition, you should be tied in with your climbing line to a nearby tree, or co-dom leader. If you get injured or run into mean squirrel or bees or hornets, handy to have that climbing line already tied in and ready to descend on.
> 
> When all I have is the very spar I am piecing down, I have the ring type friction saver around that spar near my knees or feet with climbing line through rings making choke hold on tree. If any possibility of a split exists, just un-clip flip line from one side of saddle and clip both ends of flip line to the same ring on saddle. You can't get squished, and if that "circle" breaks, you are still tied in with climbing line, ready to descend to mother earth and clean out pants.
> 
> PLEASE have this properly demonstrated before trying out on your own?




Thanks for the solid advice! Also thanks for not calling me an idiot.

Fisher, thanks also.


----------



## ozzy42 (Jan 12, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Why do I keep hearing about guys not making face cuts? As green as I am, I would never even consider not making a face cut. It's...retarded.



I think maybe you are lableing 2 different scenerios

I will sometimes cut a limb w/out face cut,not to save time,but if i need that limb to swing back,[or peel] a little bit before dropping,or to spear a mostly vertical branch.But not with a flip line around it.These are not usually real big heavy limbs.
Very different then ,no face cut ,on a BIG spar you are tied in to.The latter said, being an accident waiting to happen.
Notice i said "BIGspar"? If i am chunking down a small spar i will not always make a back cut. The deciding factor to me personally is this;If it is a log i could ,or would, put on my shoulder easily,let's say8-12in dia 12-24in long,I will usually just cut straight thru it and shove it off.
Hope this helps you some.
I also hope you are being honest[and i"ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are]
about having found some body with real exp. to help you thru your learning curve.There is a lot to learn.

STAY SAFE


----------



## davej (Jan 12, 2009)

When I see photos or videos of you pros chunking big spars I know I wouldn't want to be the person hanging up there. It seems to me there would be several very :censored: dangerous possibilities.


----------



## Slvrmple72 (Jan 12, 2009)

In response to the original post by Plasmech I have had Norway Maple split in halves, thirds and even quarters several feet down the spar I was chunking down. Apart from gaffing out nothing too serious but I have had close calls with hinge failure. If the trunk is already cracked I will put a chain around it like a girdle or even a ratchet strap. Take smaller bites it puts less dynamic forces on the tree and like the other guys said stay out of the loop! You should definitely get a copy of Beranek's Fundamentals of Tree Work. Learning the many and varied ways to cut hinges for upper canopy removal and dropping trees will be invaluable. Are you looking to get into treework fulltime?


----------

