# Guys, don't get complacent out there!!!



## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

I nearly bought the farm Saturday afternoon while out testing out the 390XP. I've debated back and forth whether or not to share this. Hopefully, someone can learn from my mistakes.

First of all, I'm *FAR *from a professional. What frustrates me most, is that I know how to do this right. I know all the mistakes I made and how to avoid them. Yes, it's rather embarrasing. 

Anyway, here's what happened. I was out videoing the 390XP for you guys. I was alone. I decided to drop about a 30" DBH tree. Why not go ahead and video that too? I've dropped trees twice this big, no biggie. Right there's where I started going wrong. Every tree is a biggie. I had no backup saw, no wedges, no helmet............. Get the picture? Complacent and careless. I know! I slapped a nice notch in there, back barred the first side of the back cut, walked around and finished the other side. She sat back on me! I had misread the lean. I took the power head off the 28" Oregon Reduced Weight bar. Not a deal at all had I used wedges like I normally would. 

Now I had to run home and grab another bar, a 32" Oregon Reduced Weight this time. This time I've got wedges and get them in the cut as soon as I have room. This is no big deal, right? Cut, drive wedges, pull out stuck bar. Then the 32" bar gets stuck. What I didn't yet realize was that I had cut through the hinge on the far side. So I'm driving wedges to push it over. No big deal, that's what wedges are for. Until.....she started falling 90###° to where I intended. I realize what's happening. Instead of stepping back, I hang onto the handle of the saw to pull it free as soon as the tree releases it. I'm standing clear behind the tree. Instead, the saw is yanked from my hand and SMACK.............everything goes black. As the tree fell, it took the top out of another tree. That fell clear. What got me was a limb on the tree I was falling hit the same tree now missing it's top, folding a branch back towards me. So, this branch isn't just falling, it's being levered and accellerated towards me. Of course, I don't know this until it hits me. I was too busy trying to save my saw and wasn't looking up, *as I know to do*. Had I simply stepped back, none of this would have happened.

The branch that hit me forked into two. I was hit by both, driving my forehead into the stump twice. Also, I had a heavy leather and fleece lined hat on. Had I not, the split on the back of my head would have been much worse.

I didn't know that I had been knocked unconsious until studying the video. Immediately after the impact, I reached for the back of my head with my left hand. You can then see my left hand fall limp, and then I collapse to my side and back. I laid there for 20 seconds before moving. I thought I had simply been knocked to the ground and got up almost immediately. It really shook me up to realize what had really happened.

I'm very fortunate to have not been either killed, or much more seriously injured. They did a CAT scan of my head, which was ok. They also x-rayed my left thumb, which I sprained. I smashed two finger tips, and have a sore jaw. I have 4 staples in the back of my head. 

I know I deserve all of the scolding you guys can give me, but I know the mistakes I made. That's what makes this so bad, and embarrasing. Hopefully, someone will learn something from my mistakes and avoid a serious accident. Stay safe out there guys! Don't drop trees alone, study your tree carefully, NEVER cut through your hinge, always have wedges, always have a backup saw and/or bar, always look up, and never try to save a saw! There's a reason falling limbs are called widow makers!














This afternoon. It looks like blood from the knot is draining into my eyelid.


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## ckelp (Feb 13, 2012)

lucky i'd buy a lotto ticket ifi where you..
your dam lucky your not in the ground...


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## promac850 (Feb 13, 2012)

Geez Brad, you were standing in front of the fan when the #### hit it this time, eh?

Glad you're doing alright. 

Don't be surprised if you start finding butter and milk in the cupboard and books in the fridge... that'll happen with a concussion.

Hope nothing else is wrong with you, these kinds of incidents can hide injuries that come back to haunt ya.

Just say you got in a fight with an angry tree that pissed itself when it heard and felt the Husky biting into it...


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## pioneerguy600 (Feb 13, 2012)

Count yourself very lucky you escaped a really serious injury or even worse,death. We all do this stuff and the chances are good that we will get injured sometime. You know the risks but take your chances, at least you know what you should have done and admit it. Go forth and from now on practice the safer route. We had another member who has been a lifetime feller get injured out in Northern B.C. last winter,he knew better but took his chances, got hit a lot harder but survived and today is much more cautious. Hope you heal quickly and I know you have learned a valuable lesson from this.


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## Fifelaker (Feb 13, 2012)

No scolding from me. I'm glad it was not worse. I have been lucky a few times myself.


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## bluestripes (Feb 13, 2012)

I think this goes beyond lucky. I would say its the grace of God! Glad your still with us Brad!


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## Somesawguy (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm glad you're more or less ok.

I got nailed by a branch a few years ago. I never used to wear a helmet, but now I always do anytime I'm felling.


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## MHouse1028 (Feb 13, 2012)

first of all i wanna say i'm very happy to hear your ok..fairly new to this site but i follow many of your post and your video's..I had a co-worker get hit with a widow maker and he landed throat down on his spinning chain..he lived..end of the day not paying as close attention as he should have been...It happens and all we can hope for is we live and learn..anyways keep up the good work and hope all is well


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## spacemule (Feb 13, 2012)

That tree fell the way it was leaning. You really think even if you hadn't cut the hinge you could make it fall that far from the direction of lean?


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## nick 55 (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm glad you were able to write about your mistakes. Let this be a lesson to everyone that complacency has no place when running a saw or cutting wood. It could have been much worse.

Nick


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## promac850 (Feb 13, 2012)

spacemule said:


> That tree fell the way it was leaning. You really think even if you hadn't cut the hinge you could make it fall that far from the direction of lean?



I somehow doubt you've ever cut a tree down... hell, a Christmas tree gathered by a little four year old would probably have a better looking stump than yours... 

Yes, it is possible to swing that tree against its lean. Loggers have used controlled dutchman cuts... 

Though for Brad, he said he misread the lean. So he was intending to drop that tree in the direction it was leaning.


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## Chris-PA (Feb 13, 2012)

Ow. I have faithfully worn my forestry helmet when dropping trees since my wife bought it for me. I think I will continue to do so! Mistakes are so much easier to see in hindsight - glad you were not hurt worse.


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## spacemule (Feb 13, 2012)

promac610 said:


> I somehow doubt you've ever cut a tree down... hell, a Christmas tree gathered by a little four year old would probably have a better looking stump than yours...
> 
> Yes, it is possible to swing that tree against its lean. Loggers have used controlled dutchman cuts...
> 
> Though for Brad, he said he misread the lean. So he was intending to drop that tree in the direction it was leaning.


How do you "misread" that much lean? Goes way to the right, and it's not a small tree. Cut a lot of trees down, some against a "minor" lean, but sure as hell never tried to fall one against a lean that drastic. Somehow I doubt you've cut much. But that's beside the point, the question is still valid.


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## lesorubcheek (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, first of all, thankful to hear you're injuries were not worse. Secondly, thanks for posting. Sharing accidents like this are what can help save someone else from an even worse fate later.

Dan


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## promac850 (Feb 13, 2012)

spacemule said:


> How do you "misread" that much lean? Goes way to the right, and it's not a small tree. Cut a lot of trees down, some against a "minor" lean, but sure as hell never tried to fall one against a lean that drastic. Somehow I doubt you've cut much. But that's beside the point, the question is still valid.



I've probably cut a hell of a lot more firewood than you have. But pissing match aside, death had an evil plan and tried to get Brad today...

You just keep stirring the pot and smelling up the shop there spacie... RandyMac will probably be around with the tire iron somewhat soon. We know you like it when he gets the tire iron out...

Given all the mistakes Brad said he made, things were just off when he was cutting that tree down. That happens sometimes, plain and simple. Sometimes your brain needs an off day. On those days it is best to take an off day... don't ask me how I know.


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

I don't think I would have had any trouble getting it to go where I wanted. But don't get in a fuss over it. That's not the point of this thread.


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## spacemule (Feb 13, 2012)

Line starts in middle of tree. That's a *lot* of lean. How did you misread that brad?


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## spacemule (Feb 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I don't think I would have had any trouble getting it to go where I wanted. But don't get in a fuss over it. That's not the point of this thread.


I thought the point was to learn from your mistake, in your words? Guess I'm not very sympathetic for stupidity, and you already admitted you were stupid and deserve whatever you've got coming. What else do you want from me? I'm trying to be constructive here.


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

I hear you space.


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## spacemule (Feb 13, 2012)

Well, I said my peace. I'll be going now.

One last thing--brad, you've got a wife and daughter to think about. I do hope you keep that in mind then next time you feel a temptation to take a shortcut. We only get one life--no resets. Never forget that.


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## Boleclimber (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad to see you made it out relatively unscathed. The video shows why many fellers and beavers run from trees when they hear the first pop or squeak. They hope for the best and know anything can happen. 

I have seen guys pull the saw body off the bar in instances like yours. They will even cut the chain if need be. A loss of a bar beats a loss of a whole saw or worse, an impact like yours. 

Everyone has their close calls.


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## Ductape (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad you are going to be OK. Hopefully we all learn a little something today.


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## morewood (Feb 13, 2012)

Do you guys believe this? That video was photoshopped!!:msp_tongue: I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that he lost a fight in a bar when someone spoke ill of his fondness for pretty saws. If I were you Brad I would pick on someone/thing smaller next time:biggrin:, or at least have a buddy back you up.

Glad you got back up.

Shea


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## CentaurG2 (Feb 13, 2012)

Good vid. You really want to go and purchase a couple lottery tickets before your luck runs out. You sure used up a real good jag of it that day. Makes a man start thinking about life insurance and taking the big dirt knap. Might want to re-evaluate cutting alone, the value of a saw and PPE as well. Any reason why that particular tree needed to be cut??


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## mitch95100 (Feb 13, 2012)

spacemule said:


> How do you "misread" that much lean? Goes way to the right, and it's not a small tree. Cut a lot of trees down, some against a "minor" lean, but sure as hell never tried to fall one against a lean that drastic. Somehow I doubt you've cut much. But that's beside the point, the question is still valid.



He knows what he did wrong and therefore he dosent need you telling him or anyone else what happened.
We all make mistakes. if we didnt make a mistake we wouldnt know #### and the art of timber cutting wouldnt have ever grown in knowledge of cutting methods. When ever you pick up a chainsaw and stick that bar into a cut your risking life and limb to get that tree on the ground safely, this was a mistake could of been a costly one but it isnt and ill bet this will haunt him for the rest of his life. We should be telling him "Thank God Your Okay" not beating him down for making a mistake. 
This is just a life lesson to Brad but ALSO ESPICALLY to ALL OF US


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## andydodgegeek (Feb 13, 2012)

glad to hear you're okay


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## gink595 (Feb 13, 2012)

Holy crap Brad! I hope everything is OK other than the obvious bumps and briuses. No ball busting from me on that, I almost had a bad situation with a maple. Almost crushed my 7900. Samething happend the tree sat back and I could hear it cracking like it was ready to go any moment. My heart raced as I pulled the power head from the bar, the only thing that really helped after that was I had the Bobcat there and was able to push it the right direction. Be safe out there!


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## MtnHermit (Feb 13, 2012)

Wow, glad you're okay. It could have been so MUCH worse. 

The memory will last much longer than your wounds.

Thanks for sharing.


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## benp (Feb 13, 2012)

WOW!!!!!

Glad you are ok!!!


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## RAMROD48 (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, all of our disagreements of the past aside, I am glad you are alive buddy....pay attention a few days from now that you dont end up with "left over" symptoms...I had migraine like symptoms that went about 10fold worse than any migraine I have ever had 3 days after my wack to the head 2 years ago. Its really scary stuff!

and then...there is this!

2 things I never see Brad wear...

Helmet and chaps...

Lets see if he smartens up and starts wearring both after this...


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## Scooterbum (Feb 13, 2012)

*Knothead !!!*

Had ta' say it.

Glad your okay.
Your biggest mistake? Going alone. Period.



Learned that lesson myself a long time ago.


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

RAMROD48 said:


> 2 things I never see Brad wear...
> 
> Helmet and chaps...
> 
> Lets see if he smartens up and starts wearring both after this...



You know, you're right. I have well worn chaps, but I usually only wear them "when I go out to work". This was just a "demonstration video". I have a decent helmet too, but rarely ever use it


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## tbow388 (Feb 13, 2012)

*Whew*

1st I would like to say glad you are okay.
2nd I would like to say THANK A MILLION FOR POSTING THIS.

I have sent very few trees to their felling grave. I have very little experience cutting than most of you do. This video and post is a great learning experience for me. A good deal of the time I think "not me" but no matter who you are whether a once a year cutter or a pro feller it can and does happen.

I know you said you knew better and were embarrassed and didn't know if you were going to post this. I want to say thanks again for the post and video.

As for the poster with a bad attitude, watch and learn. It could happen to you. Maybe the OP and his post will save you one day.


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## Jimmy in NC (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad you are ok Brad. I had a situation a few years back where I was clearing brush from trees I dropped all around the house, 13 in one day. I was tired, getting over the flu, and stumbled once. I took the top of my boot right apart and the cotton sock; never touched the skin. I learned a lot that day. I put the saw up and went and ordered chaps, helmet, new boots, etc before I re-cranked the saw. I won't touch a saw anymore with out all of the PPE as it reminds me of what I'm doing and helps me get my mind right. I have decided if I don't have time to put the gear on, I don't have time for a saw right now. I've also adopted the same philosophy for my motorcycle. 

Hope you mend soon.


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## Ops (Feb 13, 2012)

i was joking with a friend yesterday saying you never know what would happen, he said as soon as someone gets out the video camera somethings going to happen


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## huskydude (Feb 13, 2012)

You have to give credit to Brad for posting this, i'm sure this incident was a beating to the pride. Glad you made it out ok.


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## ale (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad- you always show the good and the bad.
Got my respect for that.
watching that video just might make someone be more careful and use ppe. Myself included.
Thanks for that. Glad you made it.


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

Del_ said:


> Looks like you were down for 20 seconds. Were you out?



Yes, I was out for about 20 seconds. I didn't know it until I studied the video. I have a higher resolution version and you can see me go limp and fall.


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

I just went back to the scene of the crime. The trunk is 25" across. The one limb that slapped me was about 3", considerably bigger than I thought.


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## speedytt (Feb 13, 2012)

thanks for sharing that very important lesson.

Happy you are ok.


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## tlandrum (Feb 13, 2012)

whew, im glad the saw made it out ok. brad you should know better. ive rode a mile into the woods and turned around and rode a mile back out just to get my hard hat. if the tree is standing then you need a hard hat....demonstration or working doesnt matter. glad your ok but a man as smart as you should know that its never just a quick easy tree drop. i know from experience that every tree could be your last no matter how much ppe you have on. when its your time ,pack your bags cause your gonna go. theres just no need in leaving on an earlier flight. i myself dont wear chaps in the woods and keep telling myself i need to start wearing them but i cant get around with them on. my ankles and knees dont work very well anymore and when i wear chaps i cant step over a beer can. it more dangerous for me to wear them than not.


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## parrisw (Feb 13, 2012)

Wow Brad you're one lucky dude. I always wear a helmet whenever I'm running a saw, unless its in my backyard cutting on a test log. 

It can happen to anyone, experienced or not. 2 summers ago I lost a relative, he was a faller and had many many years of experience, got hit in the head with a branch, died instantly.


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## ale (Feb 13, 2012)

On a lighter note...

Props for trying to save that 390xp! Along w/ the scars, take that $150 bent bar and stick it on the wall as a reminder what not to do.


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## tlandrum (Feb 13, 2012)

my uncle that tought me the way of timber falling died in the woods. he fell timber from age 15 to age 71. he was killed by a widow maker. he was hit in the head so hard that it broke his neck. he always said hed die in the mountains and made good on his word.


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## alderman (Feb 13, 2012)

An accumulation of mistakes that individually might not have been as serious but it all stairstepped up to making things serious, which seems to be the case in a lot of the scenerios I read about.

This certainly got my attention, Brad and I'm glad you came out of this relatively unhurt considering how it could have ended up.

Personally I think you did a good thing by sharing and I hope you have a speedy recovery.

On another note, a Shindaiwa saw would have put that tree right where you wanted it to go


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## ChainsawmanXX (Feb 13, 2012)

Just be glad you walked away from that situation, be sure to go to church... the good lord was watching over you!


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## solarguru (Feb 13, 2012)

Dang! Sorry to hear about this Brad! Glad the outcome was not way worse than it was for you. Hopefully you will have a speedy recovery my new found sawin buddy! Hopefully many people take something from this experience...


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## jropo (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad your ok, Live and learn.
I don't wish harm on anyone.
I have a old logger friend that told me once if you work in the woods its only a matter of time before you get hit.
I've been hit, not fun.
Anyone who says why are you wearing a helmet? Has not been hit yet.
If you cut hardwood grade timber you cut the hinge as she starts to go over every time, so you don't pull fibers on the butt log.
I've seen what cold does to plastic so I went w/ the Skull Bucket.
Looks like you've been stamped a Husky man now, time to unload all of those Sthils.

The top blew out of this one, what remained reached out far behind me and was dead, stump rot makes for a crappy hinge.
There is a Nice 67 GTO in the garage, and I do have insurance.
View attachment 223668


View attachment 223669


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## Chris-PA (Feb 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I just went back to the scene of the crime. The trunk is 25" across. The one limb that slapped me was about 3", considerably bigger than I thought.


And when you're looking up at a tree a 3" branch looks like nothing, a twig maybe. But consider getting smacked by a baseball bat. The branch that fell on my daughter during our Halloween storm was maybe 8" at the base, but more like 3" at the part that hit her. Didn't fall as far as what hit you. We are so puny compared to these trees we drop, even the small bits can take us out so easily. Sometimes I think the power of the saws makes us feel more powerful than we are.


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## WeenerDog (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for the warning; it's always exciting to drop a tree, though I haven't dropped too many. But the adrenaline rush is always there -- for a reason, apparently! 

The last tree I took care of a couple of weeks ago was leaning over on another tree, probably 45 degrees or more. I looked at it for several weeks (thinking it through) before I finally got after it and used a pole saw up high right where it touched the other tree to get it started while keeping my distance. Fortunately, it was small enough that the 8 or 10" polesaw would cut enough to make it break, otherwise, not sure how to tackle it. Hopefully, I would have asked for help?

Best wishes!


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## KodiakII (Feb 13, 2012)

Very big of you to fess up and post this. Hopefully others can learn from our mistakes when shared in a forum like this.
I tried my hand at logging years ago and decided it wasn't a profession I cared to pursue so I quit while I was ahead. The guy who replaced me was killed about two months by a widow maker. No PPE and no certification. Thinking to myself that could have easily been me, I always wear my PPE, and took the provincial cutter/skidder course...I might look like a goof to my neighbors all decked out cutting firewood, but at least I know I am protected and am saving what little hearing I have left.
Probably will hear from lots more "experts" about how the tree was approached wrong...just grin and bear it.:mad2:


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## half_full (Feb 13, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> when i wear chaps i cant step over a beer can.


 If you have to step over a beer while you're cuttin, you're doing it all wrong. 

Glad you're ok Brad. I'm much less experienced. Had one fall wrong way and they always put me very much on edge now. Even the "easy ones".

One year at deer camp, windy night, a big branch blew out of a tree above me. No warning at all and I was on my butt.


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## AUSSIE1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Falling trees in amongst others is always a very risky business, even in the direction it was intended. A good pool player will look ahead. Same with falling trees in amongst others. 

That wasn't a dig at you Brad, as I've been there. I dropped a huge peppermint (hardwood) in the direction I intended it to fall. A huge branch caught another tree and started to come back toward me. I was some reasonable distance back, but nevertheless I turned and bolted thinking I was well clear and yes, I should have been, also considering I had turned slightly to be behind another tree. The branch exploded on the ground and a piece about 4-5" bounced and got me on the side of the head knocking me off my feet. Well a quick dash to hospital, loss of an extreme amount of blood, plenty of stitches and thankfully I'm here writing this.

Look well further than the tree you are falling at all the possibilities for danger.


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## dingeryote (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad,

I just saw this and read your OP. Havn't seen the vid or read the rest but have to run, and will later.

1st. Get on your knees boy. You got some thanking to do.
2nd. Get to the doc and have your grape gone over. Brain injury isn't immediately obvious and can ntake several days.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## mayhem100 (Feb 13, 2012)

I've misread more trees than I care to admit...been very lucky that the worst thing so far is I had to buy a new bar for the 359.

Had some branches and even the whole damn trunk come frighteningly close to me, but never felt an impact. I wear my helmet religously, even when bucking now because I'm frequently under the canopy and there's enough dead limbs that just need a good breeze to send them my way.

Good life lesson for us all. Don't get cocky. The tree doesn't care how many of its brethren you've taken down...if its pissed off at you its not going down without a fight.


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## c5rulz (Feb 13, 2012)

Wow,

Glad to see your OK.


It took a lot of courage to post that, Thanks.


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## pdqdl (Feb 13, 2012)

spacemule said:


> Line starts in middle of tree. That's a *lot* of lean. How did you misread that brad?



That is just dumb. You cannot accurately measure lean off a picture. There is no depth perception.

Have you ever wondered why the rays of a sunset behind clouds seem to point at different directions? I hope you understand that the rays from the sun are all virtually parallel, and it is only by viewing different rays from only one position that they seem aimed at different points of the compass.

The same is true for judging lean from a picture. You just can't do it from one viewpoint. Heck, I can't even judge whether a signpost is going in straight vertical without walking around it or putting a level on two different sides.


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## Walt41 (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad to see you are ok. Disregard anyone who gives you crap about the incident, even pros make mistakes and it takes an honest man to admit them.
Does that big "H" on your head mean you are a Husky man now?


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## Johny Utah (Feb 13, 2012)

spacemule said:


> That tree fell the way it was leaning. You really think even if you hadn't cut the hinge you could make it fall that far from the direction of lean?



oke:opcorn::monkey:


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## nick 55 (Feb 13, 2012)

Walt41 said:


> Glad to see you are ok. Disregard anyone who gives you crap about the incident, even pros make mistakes and it takes an honest man to admit them.
> Does that big "H" on your head mean you are a Husky man now?



Didn't that just happen on Axmen too? A tree went the wrong direction and crushed some guys truck. Oh wait, you said pros. 

Nick


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## Whiskers (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad to see you're ok, someone was looking out for you. The damage to the bar isn't that bad, should buff right out.


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## RandyMac (Feb 13, 2012)

Walt41 said:


> Glad to see you are ok. Disregard anyone who gives you crap about the incident, even pros make mistakes and it takes an honest man to admit them.
> Does that big "H" on your head mean you are a Husky man now?



That "H" used to be for Hubris, now it is humility.


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## SCHallenger (Feb 13, 2012)

*Complacency, Safety, & Lessons learned*

First of all, thank heavens for your & your family's sake you are OK! It takes guts & a sense of wanting others to learn from this experience to post the story & the video. I've attended many lectures & seen many live & recorded demonstrations associated with my profession most of which showed "how it should be done" & a successful outcome. A very few had the foresight & courage to show poor results & downright failures. In most such cases there was much more to be learned from the failures. Congratulations on surviving & posting this. You may have saved someone else from a similar or worse fate.


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## struggle (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad glad it was only as bad as it was for you. It obviously could have been way worse. 

Awesome of you to show the video and what happened to you and the saw. 

In the scope of it most people tend to hold in there to long and not get away from the tree in time as you did and I am sure several others of us have done as well. Some of us were just a little more lucky to get away. 

Last point I though you bleed orange and white but I guess your blood is just as red as the rest of us:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Johny Utah (Feb 13, 2012)

RAMROD48 said:


> Brad, all of our disagreements of the past aside, I am glad you are alive buddy....pay attention a few days from now that you dont end up with "left over" symptoms...I had migraine like symptoms that went about 10fold worse than any migraine I have ever had 3 days after my wack to the head 2 years ago. Its really scary stuff!
> 
> and then...there is this!
> 
> ...



I've seen him wear chaps but never any other important ppe.


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## Bounty Hunter (Feb 13, 2012)

Geez Brad! That was rough to watch...Glad yer more-or-less okay, as it could have been a lot worse. But you proved one of the woodcutter's truths:

If a woodcutter is badly hurt they might say: "UUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

If a woodcutter is not badly hurt they say: "Where's my saw? is it okay?"




Take good care of yerself Brother, and watch for them collateral Widow Makers...they have sent many good woodcutters to the great beyond. Keep looking up...and get ready to RUN! :biggrin:


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## Justsaws (Feb 13, 2012)

Do you have anyone keeping an eye on you at the moment? 

Someone you that can listen to your speach, etc...

If not set a phone regiment with someone who knows where you live and can handle a 911 call and stick to it.


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## Johny Utah (Feb 13, 2012)

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Just be glad you walked away from that situation, be sure to go to church... the good lord was watching over you!




:monkey:


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## showrguy (Feb 13, 2012)

cool video brad..
how'r ya gonna top that one ???

seriously though, glad your ok, and very good of you to post the video, it'll probably save a life or two in the future...


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## promac850 (Feb 13, 2012)

Bounty Hunter said:


> Geez Brad! That was rough to watch...Glad yer more-or-less okay, as it could have been a lot worse. But you proved one of the woodcutter's truths:
> 
> If a woodcutter is badly hurt they might say: *"UUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"*
> 
> ...



That would be followed by a long string of expletives in my case... hell, when I get a little cut from something sharp under the hood of a car, I swear my brains out at it...


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## logging22 (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad your ok Brad. :msp_thumbup:


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## 3000 FPS (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad your ok. To your point of posting this. 
I am convinced.


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## spike60 (Feb 13, 2012)

That's incredible. You really dodged a bullet there buddy. :eek2:

Great service to all of us by being selfless in sharing that mishap. It will make many of us who are somewhat lax regarding PPE, (me being one of them), take it a bit more seriously. 

Wow, that was a close one.


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## johnha (Feb 13, 2012)

Its good you shared this. If nothing else to remind us all what can and does happen in an instant. Glad you're reasonably okay and hope you recover quickly. I felled a half dozen trees for a buddy Saturday before last, even though I forgot my helmet for the first time. You reminded me why I should have, and next time will, go back and get it.

All I can say is 'get back on the horse', but it may take a few trees before you get your confidence back. It will come back, though.


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## belgian (Feb 13, 2012)

On 'aircrash investigation', they always document that a drama is always a result of a chain of events. Looking at that vid, a lot of things turned out badly for Brad. Count yourself lucky right there.

It takes also some courage to post that vid for the AS crowd to watch. We all have done dumb things in our life, so you won't hear any critics from me. Glad you made it and I bet you'll learn from this, so do we.

Hope you heal well!


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## slowp (Feb 13, 2012)

I recommend this style. You can personalize them easily, and they are lightweight and cooler than plastic.











View attachment 223690
View attachment 223691


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## Hank Chinaski (Feb 13, 2012)

* and now you can say you cut down the ugly tree and got hit by every limb on the way down.... :hmm3grin2orange: 

Glad you made it out with only minor probs man.
Hang in there man, sounds like you're already learning with it. There's some good advice above (not spacemules) about following up with your injuries. 
Keeping you in my prayers thru your recovery.


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## ray benson (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for sharing this Brad. We have all taken shortcuts and this reinforces the dangers.


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## promac850 (Feb 13, 2012)

slowp said:


> I recommend this style. You can personalize them easily, and they are lightweight and cooler than plastic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You and your fuzzy animal stickers... but we all know Sir Bob loved that tin hat... :hmm3grin2orange:


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## lmbrman (Feb 13, 2012)

valuable lesson for all, good on you for sharing

glad you are mostly OK Brad !


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## M-tooth (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad you are OK Brad. I wish you a speedy recovery so you can get back in the saddle again soon. 

I hope that people take this thread for what it's worth and not just an excuse to badger someone for their mistake. We are only human.


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## Husqvarna Hands (Feb 13, 2012)

Get Well soon Brad


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## KodiakII (Feb 13, 2012)

Walt41 said:


> Glad to see you are ok. Disregard anyone who gives you crap about the incident, even pros make mistakes and it takes an honest man to admit them.
> Does that big "H" on your head mean you are a Husky man now?



I think a tattoo would have been the way to go!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## jropo (Feb 13, 2012)

M-tooth said:


> Glad you are OK Brad. I wish you a speedy recovery so you can get back in the saddle again soon.
> 
> I hope that people take this thread for what it's worth and not just an excuse to badger someone for their mistake. We are only human.



+1
And Thank You Brad for risking your hide for us saw nutz that like to see these Modded saws at work.


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## stihlrookie (Feb 13, 2012)

*Thank you for posting this*

Glad you're okay. No need to admonish, you know what was wrong and won't let it happen again. I wear a helmet ever since I took a spring pole to the head, fortunately I was just left with a nice scar above my brow and a concussion. Get well.


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## Boleclimber (Feb 13, 2012)

I have the impression Brad will never pound wedges with the saw in the cut again. Pull the saw out and then pound. You can run for the hills should the hinge let go. 

Bore cut, wedges inserted, cut back wood, then pound wedges. This method has your saw free and leaves you with no reason, like save my saw, to stay near the tree.


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## Fish (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad you are OK.

Being Hard Headed is usually a good thing.....


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## the westspartan (Feb 13, 2012)

Hey Brad,

Glad to see you're alright. I took a branch to the head last year, when a 70' or so white pine knocked a limb off of the maple next to it and the limb got flung back at me. The pine went right where I wanted it to go, just didn't notice the maple branch until it split my helmet! I was too busy showing some guys how I could hit a specific stick with the pine. Mother Nature taught me a valuable lesson about showing off! Luckily I was wearing my helmet. I don't drop anything without one.


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## willpower (Feb 13, 2012)

I see alot of guys cutting firewood doing things that I try to avoid most of the time. I was lucky to have been tought to run saws by a guy who was very "safety first". For me, most of the things you mentioned in your video are second nature . My friends on the other hand, not so much. I will definatly show this video to them so they can see just how fast it happens.I think Looking up is the hardest one to constantly do. After seeing this graphic look at a bad situation i dont think i will skip it ever. Takes balls to post this. Im glad you did.


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## Hugenpoet (Feb 13, 2012)

I thought you were joking when you started out saying you nearly bought the farm, but you were absolutely on the money. Pretty scary, but glad you will be OK. Thanks for the safety lesson.


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## luneburg (Feb 13, 2012)

*Glad your okay*

Well first and foremost glad you came out of it ok and certainty learned a good lesson and it takes some nuts to share but the important thing is to share in concern for the others here . Quite righteous of you thanks . 

This morning I replaced the lower handle on a brand new saw because of the same reason *Complacency * While the conditions were different and I chose to watch a tree squash a brand new saw it comes down to the same problem complacency . So easy to happen and it can happen to anyone from new users to pro's. 

Having worked in two of the most dangerous occupations my entire life (High Rise Construction, Logging /firewood) I have seen too many people killed due to.... you got it complacency . Once again glad you only got hurt and not killed or maimed, thank God for you and your wife and children . 

thanks again for sharing


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## paccity (Feb 13, 2012)

im not going to beat you up on the mistakes you made on droping that tree, but i'm glad your not hurt worse brad. but i will say thats what they make lids for. wear them allways . if you don't have one BUYONE! don't be the one that says hey you all watch this. wear a lid.


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## RVALUE (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad you are ok!

I had a friend killed this year in a very similar situation. According to his son, the limb that got him was pretty small.


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for all the appreciative replies guys. I flat out was not going to share this, but then as a couple days went by, I decided to. I know how threads can go on here:msp_ohmy: I certainly hope it serves it's purpose. Thanks for not being too hard on me I'm doing that myself. As one of you said, I do need to get back on the horse soon. There's definately more than a little anxiety there. That's not really like me, but I suppose it's a good thing at this point.

I really really don't want this to get into an ugly debate, but here's my take on the lean. This was not a hard leaning tree. It had some curve to it, but was not way off balance. The direction that it went would have been held by a healthy hinge, allowing me to put it where I wanted with a wedge. Also, I should have been cutting from the opposite side. Again, as one of you pointed out, there's no reason to drive wedges while the saw's in the cut. That was my final and ultimately, most costly mistake. Had the saw not been in the cut, I would have been well clear of any danger when the tree came down. Live and learn I guess. Thanks for posting that tip. I'll be sure to put it to use in the future.


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

In case some of you missed it, *I did have a CAT scan done* of my entire head. I was hit in multiple places and also had a sore jaw. I have no idea how that happened, as there's no visible reason for it.


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## ChainsawmanXX (Feb 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I really really don't want this to get into an ugly debate, but here's my take on the lean. This was not a hard leaning tree. It had some curve to it, but was not way off balance. The direction that it went would have been held by a healthy hinge, allowing me to put it where I wanted with a wedge. Also, I should have been cutting from the opposite side. Again, as one of you pointed out, there's no reason to drive wedges while the saw's in the cut. That was my final and ultimately, most costly mistake. Had the saw not been in the cut, I would have been well clear of any danger when the tree came down. Live and learn I guess. Thanks for posting that tip. I'll be sure to put it to use in the future.



No biggie brad, you were there we cant tell you what lean the tree was going. 
Tree's can be very deceiving, they can lean one way then go the other.


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## RVALUE (Feb 13, 2012)

Supercabs and I had a big one come over 160 degrees off. A wind ahead of a storm stood it up. 

A lot of variables involved.  for your nerve.


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## gink595 (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm glad you shared this. It is a real thing that can happen to anyone. No one goes to the woods and expects this to happen even though we need to. I've gotten in sticky situations and you learn from it and try not to do it again. It takes balls to share this but I think it is good you did! Glad you are OK, I just watched the video...WOW. Need me to send you a full brim hard hat?:hmm3grin2orange:


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

Now you guys know why I've been shopping for new bars, lol. I ended up with a nearly new 32" Tsumura light weight for the 390XP and ordered a new 36" Stihl ES Light today for the 066 that the ruined 32" came off of


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

gink595 said:


> Need me to send you a full brim hard hat?:hmm3grin2orange:



I've got a plastic one. Sounds like those with lots of experience recommend an aluminum skull bucket. I might have to look into that.


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## paccity (Feb 13, 2012)

brad you need to find some one that is not to far from you that really knows how to properly fall timber, like they ether do it for a living or has. and do some hands on learning . the curve on this is pretty steep. your not a cat.


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

My helmet looks something like this one, although I don't remember paying this much for it. LINK. Is this the one you pros recommend, LINKURL], or is the one I have sufficient?


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## gink595 (Feb 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I've got a plastic one. Sounds like those with lots of experience recommend an aluminum skull bucket. I might have to look into that.



I wonder why? I've personally tried crushing mine when I worked out in the structural steel shop, I would set 4000 lb parts on it and it wouldn't break! LOL I still have the stupid thing and use it as my welding helmet at home. Be hard to break one. Seems the aluminum would crush and lose shape if hit real hard, the plastic fibre metal ones wont. Maybe for comfort and being lighter, infact in our shop they aren't allowed you have to use the plastic fibre metal hard hats...


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## ndlawrence (Feb 13, 2012)

spacemule said:


> Line starts in middle of tree. That's a *lot* of lean. How did you misread that brad?



This Is not accurate because the camera could have been at an angle


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## parrisw (Feb 13, 2012)

You don't even have to do anything wrong to get hurt. 

Since your sharing Brad, I guess I will. 

Last weekend I was toping a few small trees for my Father in law. When I took one top it went exactly where I wanted it to, but when it fell it didn't "fly" out like I'm normally used to, as soon as the hinge broke the top dropped straight down, and the way I was holding the saw the bottom of the top hit the saw and drove it into my knee, good thing the chain was stopped, the saw was still running, I got lucky, it cut my knee pretty good, had a nice flap of meat taken, kinda hurt so I came down pulled up my pants and saw a nice stream of blood running down my leg, but it didn't look too bad so I just carried on. Could of been worse for sure.


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## tlandrum (Feb 13, 2012)

i use the husqvarna brand hard hat becouse i like the built in ear protection. the ear protection is as important to me as anything. im pretty much def in one ear now. just a few days ago what hearing i had left in my left ear just turned off like a light switch. all that is there now is a very loud ringing. use all the ppe you can get on when your cutting. theres no time when droping a tree doesnt demand the respect of "" it could kill you"" as you very well know now.


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## parrisw (Feb 13, 2012)

ndlawrence said:


> This Is not accurate because the camera could have been at an angle



And you can't see the top?? How the hell space figures he can judge that is beyond me, the weight of the top plays a big role.


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## rmh3481 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thank God your not hurt worse. Many of the AS folks look up to you and it is good that you did post this so that others can learn and know that there is alot of weight and serious hurt involved when things go wrong. Your going to have a nice knot for sure! Here's to you  Hope you heal up asap.


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## parrisw (Feb 13, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> i use the husqvarna brand hard hat becouse i like the built in ear protection. the ear protection is as important to me as anything. im pretty much def in one ear now. just a few days ago what hearing i had left in my left ear just turned off like a light switch. all that is there now is a very loud ringing. use all the ppe you can get on when your cutting. theres no time when droping a tree doesnt demand the respect of "" it could kill you"" as you very well know now.



Terry, if ya can get a set of custom made ear plugs. They are really great I have a set and love them, but don't wear them as much as I should.


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

Here's the high res 1080P version.

[video=youtube;1VWtM2BKsGk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VWtM2BKsGk[/video]


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## dh1984 (Feb 13, 2012)

dang Brad glad your still with us man. i watch the video and i'm glad you just came out with what you had and not badly hurt. my prayers are with and hope you recover quickly. and don't worry about the saw it's better to loose a saw that you love then replace it then loose your life and it can't be replaced.

Heal quickly and don't rush your self and you'll be back out cutting wood again. Get Well Soon


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## pastryguyhawaii (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm glad you're relatively fine after that Brad. That was hard to watch but I appreciate you showing it.


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## jropo (Feb 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I've got a plastic one. Sounds like those with lots of experience recommend an aluminum skull bucket. I might have to look into that.



I'm sure the plastic ones are fine, but a Ol' timer once told me "if you have a 20 dollar head put it in a 20 helmet".
Only thing I don't like about the Full brim Skull bucket is, when your putting the back in, its hard to look up @ the top when hunched over @ the stump. I wait to see the kerf start to open up then I look up as it starts going over, and since I've been hit I have never watched the tree go down again, I watch for the raining death instead.
The full brim works good when its raining too.


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## tlandrum (Feb 13, 2012)

i at one time had a custom molded set made and lost them a few months ago. right now i actually use the little foam ear plugs and still use the built in muffs along with them.youd think i couldnt hear nothing with all that stuff in /on my ears but i can still hear the bass tone of everything. and oh yes i still hear the ringing,the ringing always ringing. i have tenitis so bad i really think the guy standing beside me should be able to here them ringing.


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## cheeves (Feb 13, 2012)

Look we've all been complacent at one time or another. If we've cut wood for any length of time we've all had close calls. I've had more than I care to remember. Seriously. The main thing is Brad's alright. He's been a man, posted this valuable experience, taken his medicine. I appreciate it. We're a BROTHERHOOD here. We don't have to do this dangerous work alone anymore!! Sharing our experience, strength, and hope is why we're members here. And it's why it's such a great place! I can't remember when I've met a better bunch of men and women. We're all blessed to have found this great site and each other!


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## cowroy (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad your relatively ok man.

I for one am glad you posted this Brad! At Norfolk Southern I have to where a Hardhat, Safety glasses, Hearing protection, Some form of gloves for everything I do, and even our shoes have to be to a certain spec. 

when I am cutting I always have ear protection in, but other than that I 'll do good to have gloves on. Thank you for the reminder of why they make the rest of the PPE.


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## ndlawrence (Feb 13, 2012)

parrisw said:


> And you can't see the top?? How the hell space figures he can judge that is beyond me, the weight of the top plays a big role.



Exactly!!! You can't see the ground and you can't see the top and he is assuming that the camera is level


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## parrisw (Feb 13, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> i at one time had a custom molded set made and lost them a few months ago. right now i actually use the little foam ear plugs and still use the built in muffs along with them.youd think i couldnt hear nothing with all that stuff in /on my ears but i can still hear the bass tone of everything. and oh yes i still hear the ringing,the ringing always ringing. i have tenitis so bad i really think the guy standing beside me should be able to here them ringing.



The thing I like about the custom ones is you can easily hear things, and they block out all the damaging stuff. 

I've had ringing in the ears pretty bad too Terry, it really sucks bad. Knock on wood haven't had it in a while.


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## Walt41 (Feb 13, 2012)

Rethinking the whole thing, I'm kinda jealous...you have the ultimate get out of trouble card now, think about it.
From everything from forgetting to take out the trash to missing birthdays and other dates..."I did get hit in the head with a tree" is solid excuse material...and an excuse to buy more saws and act like you can't remember ordering them..


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

I have severe tinitus as well. I've had it since I was much younger. I also have Meniers disease, making it even worse. I'm almost deaf in my left ear. That why you will rarely ever see me without hearing protection, even if I have no other PPE on. I can't wear muffs because I sweat so badly.


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## Walt41 (Feb 13, 2012)

parrisw said:


> The thing I like about the custom ones is you can easily hear things, and they block out all the damaging stuff.
> 
> I've had ringing in the ears pretty bad too Terry, it really sucks bad. Knock on wood haven't had it in a while.



Not to derail the busted head thread but,...
I had ringing in my ears bad for about two years and one day I had a chance conversation with a Venezuelan doctor that told me she could fix it by realigning my jaw, after three appointments and wearing a night guard for two months the ringing is almost completely gone, apparently there is a nerve connection related to the jaw that causes some ringing problems.


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## slowp (Feb 13, 2012)

Another close call that happened recently. No pictures--just the story. It isn't all fun and games out there.

http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/192646.htm


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## bigcat (Feb 13, 2012)

Wow..glad your OK ,thanks for putting up the video even the pros need to step back and take a look. 
I have spent years in heavy construction and we would see the same training videos every year,you know the old saying #### happens.


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## Teddy.Scout (Feb 13, 2012)

parrisw said:


> And you can't see the top?? How the hell space figures he can judge that is beyond me, the weight of the top plays a big role.



TRUE!
None of us were there.
Cutters call......


Brad you should be dead!
Yesterday must have involved some reflection!

Hey, ditch the saw! I bet if you had to, you could build another.

Posting this vid and pictures is top notch!
We all need a reminding, from someone else is easier then yourself!

Heal fast fast Brad!
M+T


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## Justsaws (Feb 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> In case some of you missed it, *I did have a CAT scan done* of my entire head. I was hit in multiple places and also had a sore jaw. I have no idea how that happened, as there's no visible reason for it.



Clench reflex, plus if you hit a fellow hard enough in the back of the head or the top(crown) he will feel it in his jaw for a couple of days. Does not take much non typical movement in the jaw to make it sore.

Cat scans are good.

Saws, crunch away they will make more.


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## tlandrum (Feb 13, 2012)

ill bet you that you could probably buy a new saw for what pain ,agrivation and doctor bills you will have. i have learned to let the saw go if it makes it good if it dont then dammit. guess ill get a new one.


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## procarbine2k1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad to hear you are ok! All the props in the world to you for posting this! May have been a wake up call for more than just you... I know it got my attention!


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## tlandrum (Feb 13, 2012)

guys you may also want to remember that danger dont only come from above when logging. a spring pole that you never see will put your light out. the logger that i bought my tractor from had gotten his neck and back broken by a 2'' spring pole. i got 2 black eyes and a busted nose from a half inch spring pole just a couple of months ago. the danger is evrywhere when it comes to logging,tree cutting,trimming or about anything saw related.


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## hqv (Feb 13, 2012)

Wish you fast recovery. 

Take care.


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## TonyRumore (Feb 13, 2012)

First off, I'm glad you're OK, Brad.

I kind of learned that lesson back in 1981 when a similar limb, but much larger in diameter, broken off and hit my father on the top of the head. It bounced off the top/side of his helmet and came down on his collar bone. It crumpled him into the dirt. I was 15 years old. After seeing that, I made sure I always have my helmet on and look up to see what might be coming after me. I usually take a step or two rearward and prepare to run as well.


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## CedarRock (Feb 13, 2012)

Get well soon man. A real faith builder.


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## cajunhillbilly (Feb 13, 2012)

Stuff Happens...glad to see your alive. This is a good example for everyone. I will think about this next time I fell a tree.


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## Mill_wannabe (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, so glad you are OK. Thank you posting this, you can bet I'm watching it carefully and my son will also. You put this out there for us to learn, I plan on doing just that.


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## watsonr (Feb 13, 2012)

You were lucky!!! Even bringing a buddy to cut with is no guarantee that something won't happen... and if it does, that only guarantees he'll tell the story to your family about how you died!!


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## walexa07 (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad you are ok, Brad.

Thanks for being man enough to post it - hindsight is always crystal clear, but I think we can all take away some good from this post!

Waylan


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## Brian13 (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad to see you survived Brad. Looked like it could have been a whole lot worse than it turned out to be. Hope you heal up fast.


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## birddogtg (Feb 13, 2012)

I am glad to see your semi okay.


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## Gologit (Feb 13, 2012)

No big deal, Brad. You can fix the saw, you'll heal up, and you learned something in the process. You _did_ learn something I hope.


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## motobike (Feb 13, 2012)

*Thank you For Posting*

Yes, Thank You for posting this.

I takes something like this to give us all a wake up call every now and then.

Just glad you will be OK.


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## husq2100 (Feb 13, 2012)

A couple of points to consider:

If you were making a demonstration video, all PPE should be on as others are watching. Forget your personal bad habbits when working (we all have them) when showing others.

Why worry about the saw. I have seen plenty of Pro's that have had to leave their saw behind when things go not quite as plan. You first, everything else a distant 2nd.


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## mt.stalker (Feb 13, 2012)

A real eye opener . Hope you have a speedy recovery Brad .


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## wilson225 (Feb 13, 2012)

That vid is the biggest freakin lesson learned I've ever seen or heard. Funny thing is I'm always telling myself exactly what Brad preached...don't get complacent, I literally say that to myself when I go out....but nothing could ram the point home more than that Vid. I really appreciate you posting it, even knowing how some would react.


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## computeruser (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for posting this. It is a sobering reminder that mistakes do happen, even among people who know better and have run saws/dropped trees/limbed up/worked blowdowns and snags/etc. time and time before. The risks are real, and there isn't a reset button. What happened here was one step away from an unhappy ending. It could happen to any of us, frankly. This past year Caseyforrest's father-in-aw was killed by a tree he was cutting, in his own yard; he died many years before his time. 

The difference between a close call, an injury, and getting killed can be mere inches, seconds, a small wind gust, or something like that. 

Be careful out there, guys! This saw stuff may be fun, but it isn't risk free.


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## dancan (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for posting the "How to" video .


Thanks for posting and am glad that you are now a graduate from the school of hard knocks and not a flunkie .


All puns aside , I do most of my cutting alone and try to remember all the lessons that people have shared good or bad , thanks for the reminder and I am glad that you are still here to post .


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## Sagetown (Feb 13, 2012)

Hi Brad: That was definitely a close call. Glad you're still with us. Tree felling isn't as smooth as some people try to make it. As RVALUE put it; it all boils down to 'variables'. PPE becomes very important to those of us who survive an incident without it.


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## rwoods (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, glad you are still with us. And thanks for posting. Hopefully for ever one critic there are 10 guys who got their eyes opened that there is real danger in falling trees, even with PPE (as shown in your video, a hard hat would have helped but you got smashed twice -well, actually at least 4 times if you count the forehead into the stump). We all, including those who can recite the drill in their sleep, occassionally need the reminder in your title. Ron


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## arlostone (Feb 13, 2012)

*Atgatt*

THAT'S GONNA BE A SWEET SHINER!!glad your'e ok,and,thanks for sharing.everyone can learn something from this.as for ppe's on the tank of my motorcycle is a small sticker that says "ATGATT it's not if but when".ATGATT stands for all the gear all the time,it's the same in the woods!


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## naturelover (Feb 13, 2012)

Heal quickly, and thanks for sharing that. 

I've done some unsafe things over the years, and even some stuff that when I look back on, I wonder how I'm still here.


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## genesis5521 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hi Brad: (Now I know your name)

I see your name (blsnelling) in lots of posts. I'm just so glad you're OK. It was by the grace of God. I commend you for your courage in sharing it with us. It made me think about how I do things. Some changes are in order. Ya did the right thing man.  

Thank you !

Don <><


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## WestMIFirewood (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, thanks. I am a rookie to the game and have had a casual attitude when cutting down trees. A real eye opener for sure. You did your job by posting this, giving us all a chance to learn from your mistake. 


from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


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## jsk (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad that you are ok brad. It takes a true man to admit the mistake they have made. We are all human and we all make mistakes. hope your head heals quick.
jason


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## mdavlee (Feb 13, 2012)

Well glad you're ok. I didn't know you needed a new 32" bar from the weekends troubles. I don't wear much ppe but when dropping trees I usually put on a hard hat.


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> Well glad you're ok. I didn't know you needed a new 32" bar from the weekends troubles. I don't wear much ppe but when dropping trees I usually put on a hard hat.



And I wasn't going to tell, lol. Now you know


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## Liveliner (Feb 13, 2012)

*Thanks for the post*

Brad,
Glad to hear your OK (mostly). I'm a newbie that has read a lot of your posts and glad you can still do it.
I wear PPE most of the time. Your accident will cause me to wear it all the time.
You did the right thing by sharing your close call with us, I know that took some big ones to do it.
Thanks
Gary in CT


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## CWME (Feb 13, 2012)

Pure Speculation on my part, Not sure a basic skull bucket would have helped you here. Looks like your head is down and you got pummeled a few times. My bet is that your helmet would have been gone by the time the big one hit you.

I wear a Petzl climbing helmet with the muffs and face shield now. The straps should help keep the helmet in place if it goes bad. My personal preference only mind you. I like having the helmet secure on my head for getting on the tractor, bending over, etc, and it is lighter than the Stihl helmet. 

Don't be afraid to tell the Doc if you have some issues down the road. I avoided going to the Doc and suffered the side effects after I got hit last year.

Got shivers and goose bumps watching your video. I normally love watching your vids. This one, not so much. Good for learning but scary stuff that nightmares are made of. 

Wish you the best and fast healing!


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## Philbert (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad you are OK Brad, and parrisw too! Thank you for sharing and reminding us of what can happen.



(BTW - before reading the thread I assumed that your title _"Guys, don't get complacent out there!!!"_ was to admonish us that we had better not forget that tomorrow is Valentine's Day!!!)

Philbert


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## Modifiedmark (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, you done right sharing this, kudos to you and glad you will be alright. 

Myself I dont take many chances dropping trees I got my education years ago. You remember I posted how my dad was out of work and was cutting firewood to sell with that Super EZ? 

Well he had a big bushy Oak jump the stump on him and liked to kill him. The only thing that saved him was he was under the yoke of the tree. My brother had to cut the tree off of him to get him out from under it while he was unconscious. Long story but he survived and we all took lesson from it. 

As for the hard hat? Just luck of the draw anyway, they get knocked off and dont always save you in a instance like this.


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## Joe46 (Feb 13, 2012)

Mistakes are made, and lessons learned. Glad you came out of it mostly none the worse for wear, and are here to tell about it.


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## MechanicMatt (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, you better thank the good lord tonight. Happy to see your ok, Your video has me convinced to start wearing my helmet even when my pop is not around. I always wear it when he's watching, but never when Im alone. What a dope right? Thanks for being brave enough to post it and make me wake up.


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## synness4 (Feb 13, 2012)

*I am glad you are ok but now your*

branned husky your going to have to sell all your stihls, to bad you could send a few to montana for us to use!!!! by the way I had a top fall out of a tree smack my stihl helmet right on the top, busted it to crap but saved my head ! I got a new one for christmas !


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## wyk (Feb 13, 2012)

That is a hard lesson learned. Good thing it wasn't your last. It could easily have been.

Regardless of the lean, or PPE, what appears to be the main problem resulting in injury is you had chainsaw target fixation. Situational awareness is very important. Once that tree commits, get the hell out of there. No helmet in the world will protect you from being crushed by a tree. PPE is simply the protection part while cutting and remaining stationary. And, yes, it is very important. You were fine up to the point the work was done. All you had to do was run like hell. A helmet would have helped you in this situation, being aware and leaving the stump would have avoided the situation altogether. 

I've had an oak do something similar to me. I let one go, and a limb smacked me so hard I lost my balance. I had a helmet, but that didn't save me when I fell backwards into the trunk of another large oak it was near, hitting the back of my head pretty hard. had I simply ran when the oak I was falling let go, I would have been fine.

Be careful out there. All of you.


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## Jtheo (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, Thanks for posting this. You are a stand up guy.

I have to admit that I have got a little careless in that I have been cutting by myself recently, knowing that I should not, in case something went wrong.

This is a good wake up call for me.


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## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2012)

CWME said:


> Pure Speculation on my part, Not sure a basic skull bucket would have helped you here. Looks like your head is down and you got pummeled a few times. My bet is that your helmet would have been gone by the time the big one hit you.
> 
> I wear a Petzl climbing helmet with the muffs and face shield now. The straps should help keep the helmet in place if it goes bad. My personal preference only mind you. I like having the helmet secure on my head for getting on the tractor, bending over, etc, and it is lighter than the Stihl helmet.



You make some valid points, some that I've been considering. I did have a cold weather hat on. It's one of those goofy looking hats that an old school bomber would wear. It's made of heavy leather and lined with fleece. It had to have given me at least a little protection. It was 6'-8' away, on the other side of the stump. However, I strongly believe it was on my head when the big one hit me. There was a good sized clump of hair still inside the hat, pulled from where the wound happened. But it provided me no protection on my forehead. I don't think a typical helmet would have either. This has me thinking the strap on type would give me the most protection. I'm thinking it's the only style of helmet that might have protected me front and back. I also like the shields I've seen on a couple of these.


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## andydodgegeek (Feb 13, 2012)

WOW I just watched the video. You are very lucky. Keep us informed on your recovery. I am kicking myself as we speak for not wearing my helmet. I bought a new helmet several months ago and have not worn it once. I have been cutting alot over the last couple weeks, cleaning up from the big nasty wind storm we had in july. Lots of trees hung up together, lots of tension. I know it wouldnt take much for one of these trees under tension to take me out. I almost always cut alone, usually no one around. I dont have much of an option for getting someone to come with but I can at least start wearing my ppe. Thanks for posting this horrific video, I will change my ways. OUCH, man that looks nasty.


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## CTYank (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, it takes a tough guy to take a licking like that and publish the specifics to the world. We can only guess how many serious injuries/fatalities you'll help prevent. (You could tell people you were in a tree-punching contest and the tree got in a couple of hits.) Seriously, hope nothing permanent.

Even the best helmet can only protect against so much. As a summer groundie in college, my boss trimming above let a stream of pretty good-sized chunks of brush go. One hit my helmet- good solid hit; next hit me on the shoulder- was in la-la land for a bit.


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## Raganr (Feb 13, 2012)

> Don't drop trees alone, study your tree carefully, NEVER cut through your hinge, always have wedges, always have a backup saw and/or bar, always look up, and never try to save a saw!



Glad you made it out with only minor injuries and thank you for sharing. I would much rather learn from the mistakes of others rather than my own.


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## CWME (Feb 13, 2012)

If you do decide to go this route be careful in your selection. Petzl at least, makes the same helmet with a pressure release clasp designed to let go if hung up. They have a closed shell and one that is vented. I like the vented because I sweat a lot. Only downside is the sweat tends to run down my face because it doesn't have an absorbent band like the stihl. Something to Mod come spring

Hat or Helmet, I think you were still going to get hurt in that situation. I know in my case the helmet kept me from leaking blood and getting staples in my head like you. (That was gross BTW:msp_flapper 





blsnelling said:


> You make some valid points, some that I've been considering. I did have a cold weather hat on. It's one of those goofy looking hats that an old school bomber would wear. It's made of heavy leather and lined with fleece. It had to have given me at least a little protection. It was 6'-8' away, on the other side of the stump. However, I strongly believe it was on my head when the big one hit me. There was a good sized clump of hair still inside the hat, pulled from where the wound happened. But it provided me no protection on my forehead. I don't think a typical helmet would have either. This has me thinking the strap on type would give me the most protection. I'm thinking it's the only style of helmet that might have protected me front and back. I also like the shields I've seen on a couple of these.


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## zogger (Feb 13, 2012)

*Wow!*

Close one man! Glad you made it with just a knocking about and a bent bar. Geez loweez be careful! When I am cutting big ones, I don't care how tedious or silly it might get, I throw a line and a comealong on them anyway if they are the least bit iffy looking to me.

Decades ago, guardian angel action saved me, it is the only answer I can come up with. Did a small one, about 12 inches or so, no biggee, fell where it was supposed to. I am bucking it up into a few small logs to hand drag out, finish bucking at my cabin. Like around five minutes later I get this feeling of just dread, impending doom, a threat. overwhelming. I looked around..this ain't normal..see nothing, but couldn't stand it, dropped my bowsaw and walked about 10 feet away still looking around...WHOMP! A definite widow maker falls hard right where I had been standing. Never saw it or heard it until it hit the ground.


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## naturelover (Feb 13, 2012)

Speaking of the staples.......

Remember when I was younger, I was running and fell on the edge of the brick sidewalk and peeled some skin from my knee. I could literally pull the flap back and such.

Well, parents took me to the doc, nurse comes in with this 6' long (well, it looked it) needle and proceeded to try to put it together.

After fumbling with it a few seconds, she looked at it and said "well, no wonder, this part is made in China, and this part is made in Japan...."

Thought "uh oh" as she jabbed it right in the wound. Talk about pain.... I think she could have just sewed it up without anesthesia and it would have hurt less.

Sorry, OT.


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## pgg (Feb 13, 2012)

sucks getting slapped by a tree, those with brains never let it happen twice, no1 piece of safety equipment in the bush felling is helmet, Some will rave on and on about chaps/flouro vests/goggles/steel cap boots/pink ribbons and safety manuals blah blah but helmet is No1


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## sun64 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks for sharing Brad, it just shows how dangerous this game can be. A great reminder to us all. 
My wife's cousin was a professional pine faller and was killed on the job. 
I had a close call a few months ago dropping a gum in a rain forrest, 25 metres tall, just over 350 mm ( 14 inches at the base ) not much room for my wedges and a gust of wind came up and she went over backwards on me bringing another trees branch down in the process.
Yes you really have to evaluate EVERY tree and conditions.
Thanks for the post and reminders. Hope you heal up soon.
sun64


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## hillwilliam (Feb 13, 2012)

*Thanks for the post*

You done good to post your story - and video. We wouldn't all be man enough to do that. You deserve a lot of credit for fessing up.

I cut timber for a long time, including some big timber, and i was good at it. But I've made similar mistakes. I'd be dead now, if it wasn't for a tin hat that's now a dog dish. And I'd be almost an inch taller if i was as good a faller as i thought I was. 

Glad you're OK so far. You already got some good advice on medical aspects, as well as some other advice you may not need. 

Hillwilliam


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## stihl waters (Feb 13, 2012)

Tks for sharing, we all make mistakes,it's the old "familiarity breeds contempt" thing. You've done a great service by posting that vid., seeing is believing !!


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## MotorSeven (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, thanks for having the stones to post this. We all make mistakes, sometimes we skate, but sooner or later we get caught. 

I always cut firewood alone and since I have been building my log house & milling lots of logs, I sometimes rush things when I shouldn't. Last year I was cutting in a big pick-up sticks blow down. The 20" trunk was 3' off the ground and hung, and I studied the thing for 20 min before cutting, since unseen tension gives me the willies. Anyway, when I made it through the cut and stepped back, the trunk rolled. A 3" branch that I did not see trapped under the trunk unloaded and whipped back. I felt the wind from it go by my head...it could not have missed me by more than an inch or two. I went right for the whiskey when I got home, and it still bothers me that I made that huge mistake. 

I know the purpose of your post is to make _us_ think...thanks...message received.


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## NORMZILLA44 (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm glad your ok Brad, glad somebody was looking out for you I don't want to lose anymore friends, for a long long time.


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## andydodgegeek (Feb 13, 2012)

Hi, Brad, this is Andy's wife, Sarah. Just got home & sat down for dinner and a little movie... Wow. Andy can attest- I just sat here making that gasping noise us women are so known for as I watched... I'm sure I'm not alone in seeing enough of the results of unpredictable tree falling to not want to see any more good folks get wacked! Glad to see you're among the land of the living still. As a recent head-injury victim myself, I hope your recovery is fast and complete, it's definitely a reality check!

Take care...

ps- Andy said that he understands that it would be hard to run away from your saw when it is in danger- but you shoulda just said to heck with it & ran away! You do have other saws... and you needed that saw like you needed another hole in the head-oops-now you got one of them too!


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## nick 55 (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, I think the only head protection that would have prevented all but a sore jaw would be something like this.

Nick

View attachment 223758


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## nick 55 (Feb 13, 2012)

andydodgegeek said:


> You do have other saws... and you needed that saw like you needed another hole in the head



Blasphemy! I think that head injury has definitely affected you.

Just kidding Sarah,

Nick

Let the negative rep rain down on me for that....


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## jropo (Feb 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> You make some valid points, some that I've been considering. I did have a cold weather hat on. It's one of those goofy looking hats that an old school bomber would wear. It's made of heavy leather and lined with fleece. It had to have given me at least a little protection. It was 6'-8' away, on the other side of the stump. However, I strongly believe it was on my head when the big one hit me. There was a good sized clump of hair still inside the hat, pulled from where the wound happened. But it provided me no protection on my forehead. I don't think a typical helmet would have either. This has me thinking the strap on type would give me the most protection. I'm thinking it's the only style of helmet that might have protected me front and back. I also like the shields I've seen on a couple of these.



Use what ever your going to feel comfortable in, it all goes w/ trusting your gear. 
If you don't like it you won't wear it. (Just like my chaps)
You don't seem to be much of a hat guy, but I think even one of these might of saved you some staples.

Bailey's - Rockman Bump Cap


Put it on when your felling, when its safe, take it off.
Like the others said knowing when to leave the stump is key and sometimes hard to do, when your pride and joy is left to the mercy of the tree that it just killed.
Like someone else said its not always the big ones that get ya, (you have a respect for them) its the little SOB's that are knocked over in the process that like to make your day interesting.
Rest,reflect,get new bar, GET EVEN!!!!
A nice slab of that tree would be a good place to hang your bent bar on.


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## Busmech (Feb 13, 2012)

Glad you are still around to talk about this. Anybody that falls many trees has had a close call, any body that says they havn't just hasn't found the one with his name on it. An old timer that i was bucking for showed me a safer way to rescue your saw, he said when your saw gets pinched and the tree is going the wrong way don't hold the handle, hold the rope handle, that lets you get two to three feet further from the stump. hold tension on the rope if the saw comes loose yank it to you. I got to see him use that method several times over the years and his saw allways pulled thru.


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## Evanrude (Feb 13, 2012)

Wow. Sobering post. I'm glad you're doing okay. Could have been much, much worse. Make sure and count your lucky stars and thank the powers that be! It takes balls to post this, but be glad you did. You're helping so many people realize, including me, that anything can happen in an instant. Some people aren't as lucky. Like you said, don't ever get complacent. I hope you're feeling alright considering the hit. At least you're feeling...


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## madhatte (Feb 13, 2012)

Here's my two cents' worth.

First -- Brad, good on you for sacking up and sharing this video and story. It's a valuable cautionary tale and if anybody at all learns something from it, it's not a total loss. Vicarious learning is still learning, especially if it means not having to repeat somebody else's mistakes. Also -- video of stuff like this is a super-useful tool for improving your techniques, so for sure keep that up. There's always gonna be room for improvement. 

Second -- not gonna berate you on the "no PPE" thing as we've already been over that enough here. I will say that I prefer the aluminum hats to the plastic ones because they show their damage. It's pretty easy to see when they need replaced. With the plastic ones, the instructions say to replace them any time they get whacked. That sounds pretty bogus, especially if you have a hundred-dollar Bullard, but the fact is, plastic won't give you any warning before it fails. It also holds heat way better, and therefore contributes to heat stress in any but the coolest conditions. However, you don't want to work anywhere near power of any sort sporting a metal helmet. There's pros and cons to both, but for daily work, I vastly prefer a full-brim tin hat. I have an old Mac-T and a Skull Bucket and like both. 

Third -- on saving the saw, consider pulling the starter cord. It buys you some space and therefore time. Don't know if it would have made a difference in this case, but as a habit, I recommend it over just hanging out beneath the tree until it tips. 

Fourth -- regarding lean and swings, I don't think what you were trying looked impossible at all. It just looks like you dutched the wrong side. Remember that the fat side is the way it will fall. If you nip the off side, you want to put a wedge under the fat side, not the thin side. 

Fifth -- escape routes? I haven't heard mention of them and they aren't immediately obvious from the vantage point of the camera. Be in the habit of taking time beforehand to establish them and be ready to use them. 

Finally -- I gotta hit you on not looking up. I just gotta. There's nothing more important than situational awareness. That goes for everything -- think about just driving down the street and braking to avoid a car that backs out in front of you. Not looking up is exactly equivalent to mashing that car because you were changing the song on your iPod. There's what's important, and there's what's important NOW. Falling, nothing's more important than the top of the tree. You can look down to check your progress, to adjust wedges, whatever needs done, but eyes up as much of the time as is physically possible. Then be ready to dash down whichever escape route is most appropriate.


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## Walt41 (Feb 13, 2012)

I think you should mill a nice shelf out of that tree and use it to hold all your PPE, maybe mount that twisted bar above it as a reminder to suit up before pulling the cord.


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## LowVolt (Feb 13, 2012)

I have to admit after reading the story it was pretty intense to watch the video. Glad to see you are alright. ::thumbsup::


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## Metals406 (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad, I skipped a lot of this thread, it's moving fast, and there's a lot of stuff being repeated.

I'll say this, glad that wasn't a video of your death! I had my son watch it, and explained what went wrong, where it went wrong, and how it can be prevented. I've used your video as a tool, just like you intended when you sacked up and posted it. 

God Bless mang, and heal up!


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## wheelman (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad really glad to hear you are ok after that ordeal. 
Complacency sadly is what has gotten so many people people hurt and killed in this business. As someone said earlier there is no such thing as a simple drop. I have seen more times than not guys getting hurt with small seemingly harmless trees. A good friend of mine was nearly crushed to death by a 14" DBH poplar a few years back from just not paying enough attention to his surroundings or having a planned escape route.

I think most of us are very diligent when cutting a big or otherwise dangerous looking tree, but tend to get sloppy on the routine stuff. Just remember nothing is routine when it comes to felling trees. 

Stay safe friend!


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## Farm Boy (Feb 13, 2012)

No more thumpin to your punkin. That time period where you are not moving in the video is pretty damn spooky. Thanks for sharing, no doubt there are others ordering crash hats as a result of your video. Heal well.


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## Dennis Cahoon (Feb 13, 2012)

Brad you ignorant "CULL"!.......as I used to say almost everyday......."Just another Lucky Day in the woods"......Hahahahahahaha!


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## Dan_IN_MN (Feb 13, 2012)

spacemule said:


> Well, I said my peace. I'll be going now.
> 
> One last thing--brad, you've got a wife and daughter to think about. I do hope you keep that in mind then next time you feel a temptation to take a shortcut. We only get one life--no resets. Never forget that.



SPACE......I'm going to rank this post as one of your most constructive posts that I've read! Well written!

Brad.....good thing you got a '*do over*'! Like others have said... THANKS FOR POSTING YOUR MISTAKES!

I've found myself in some tight situations....thinking....that was stupid! I just about killed my dog....she came running along just as the tree fell.....the tree glanced off her back pushing her away.....she stays away when the saw(s) are running now!


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## almondgt (Feb 13, 2012)

"I was out videoing the 390XP for you guys. I was alone. "

I blame the camera for the mishap. Yes, the camera was a major distraction. You were on a mission to contribute once again to this site. Your mind was reeling with.... The camera is rolling, I have to do a good job on cutting this tree down, everyone will be watching, i'll only get one chance at this video. Who knows what else was running through your mind besides saving the 390. Thoughts like that took your focus off the job at hand. I don't know if the outcome would have been different without the camera but I think the video camera was the negative force that resulted in your near death experience. I would not want to read in your obituary "he died for his love of arboristsite site"

Real good friend of mine died several years ago from a WidowMaker. He was working alone!-

Glad your still around. You've impacted many


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## RiverRat2 (Feb 14, 2012)

*Wow just found this thread,, Complacency,,,*



parrisw said:


> Wow Brad you're one lucky dude. I always wear a helmet whenever I'm running a saw, unless its in my backyard cutting on a test log.
> 
> It can happen to anyone, experienced or not. 2 summers ago I lost a relative, he was a faller and had many many years of experience, got hit in the head with a branch, died instantly.



Brad,,, I know you understand how blessed you were today,,

What Im about to laydown,,,,I havent talked about much,,,,,

After Hurricane (late fall 2008) Ike we had a ton of work,,, 3 stumprinders working and 3 sometime 4 removal crews getting the blowdowns off of houses and out of peoples driveways, yards, etc,,,, 3rd day evening into it We lost one of the best arborist I ever worked with,,,, 20+ years of experience falling/climbing all sorts of Hazard trees,,,, after work one evening he had mentioned to some of us about a large 30"+ red oak tree with some widow makers hanging in it by the back door and driveway of his house and he wouldnt let his wife and kids come home till he had it on the ground,,,, he was by himself except for his youngest 5 year old son.. the wind damage in the canopy had really rearranged the trees natural symmetry and it must have been pretty lopsided ,,, he got it on the ground ok but looking at his notch and where it ended up he must have misjudged the trees balance as evidenced by the location of his face cut and the direction it layed,,, consequently it rolled on the stump guess how much,,,, 90°,,,, Well.... while he was pushing the now cut top/limbs with his tractor/front end loader to clear the driveway a 3" sprung forked limb unloaded and sprung back and hit him square in the throat/temple breaking his neck and crushed his skull,,, he died 30 minutes later with paramedics trying to resuscitate him,,, The five year old was riding in has lap and narrowly escaped injury,,,, Never tackle any problem tree with a lean or deformity that has unsymmetrical structure by yourself,,, another set of experienced eyes during size up are invaluble,,, thats what they make good bull ropes and arborist equipment for,,, Johnny made a good living doing professional arborist work as long as I knew him,,,We had ground a many a stump behind his work,,, I cant tell you how all of this has affected his family,,, complacency and getting in a hurry got him....

Life is very fragile,,, If you remember I cut through one side of the hinge of a 30+" butress flared yellow pine with my ported 390XP, about october of 2011 only difference it rolled 90° on the stump but still fell pretty much where we wanted it,,,, but as soon as I went through the hinge the butt set down on the bar and snatched the saw right out of my hand, all I could do was scat and squint back over my shoulder,,, the saw was dogged in the butt of the spar and all I could do was watch it sling/twist off of the stump riding the butt,,, I was blessed that I had the presence of mind to let go and run the other way,,, and luckily we had just raked all the saw briars away fron the stump with the track hoe so the sandy soil was soft and the saw made it ok with just a smushed muffler and twisted dogs,,, rule of thumb,,, dont go on any falling jobs without an extra set of experienced eyes,,, We can always replace a saw,,,,,,
Oh,,, and cutting through your holding/hinge wood is not good bussiness no matter what the trees disposition is,,, ever,,,, as it is what controls the tree as it slides off the stump and your stumpshot is what launches the spar away from ya

Glad you are some what OK and hopefully as you stated,,, the positve here we all learned a valuble lesson,,, Dont go cut any more trees for us when you are alone,,, we all know you can build a really good runner,,,


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## bcorradi (Feb 14, 2012)

Great post RR2.

I think another good point you bring up is to avoid the temptation to save the saw and worry about your own safety.


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## tree monkey (Feb 14, 2012)

happy to see you standing. iv'e been there more then once. it's good you showed the vid, it will help others learn.
i'm not man enough to take a hit like that to show some one the wrong way to do something. your the man.

rep sent


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## dingeryote (Feb 14, 2012)

Everybody has beaten ya up, on stuff you are already beating yourself up over already. Thanks for posting the carnage as a reminder to all of us, and as a chance to rethink our own mortality.

I got around to watching the vid. You're darn lucky.
Glad to see you only got a Husqvarna trademark and a headache out of the deal. Looks like you aren't done with your work here yet...good thing you are slacking somewhere. 

You're lucky the butt didn't kick and squash you like a bug when it hit the other tree. It's actually kind of wierd it didn't.
Get off the stump when the Kerf opens next time. Folks don't get lucky like that more than once and saws are cheap.

You gotta go back out there and clean up that stem, and maybe drop a couple of those other trees. 
Don't linger and think it to death either. Ya know what ya did, and what you need to do different.
Just bring one of the crew with ya to nag a little next time.

Good having ya still here.:msp_thumbsup:

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## oscar4883 (Feb 14, 2012)

Kudos to you Brad for posting the vid. I wear a Petzl helmet and usually forget it is on until I hit my head trying to get in the truck with it on. Very comfortable. If you decide to fall alone a nice, simple mechanical advantage system is cheap to set-up and easy to install. It will let you get out of harms way and pull things over. My grandfather spent a winter in a coma after getting hit in the head by a widowmaker while falling timber in PA. Making a bad mistake in most situations is really not all that bad, but when working with trees it often ends in death or learning how to walk again.


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## Arrowhead (Feb 14, 2012)

Glad your OK Brad. Stuff can happen at any time. I got to quick stories.

This was about a year ago. I was helping an older friend of mine drop a few trees and cut and split into firewood. I put my chaps and helmet on before we started. He smiled at me and said, "dang, you get all dressed up just to cut some wood, I never cut myself in 30 years of running a saw." I said I'd rather be safe than sorry. About 3 weeks later, we had a storm and it blew a large branch off one of is yard trees. He started cutting it up, then ended up in the ER with 17 staples in his leg from hitting it with the chain.

About 3 years ago, my Dad was helping me split wood. I dropped a huge Oak in the treeline behind my house. My dad is not in the best of health and usually sits on a bucket running the levers on the splitter. (which is a huge help) It was windy that day. I dropped the tree into the picked cornfield so I could position the trailer and splitter close to the tree. We loaded up the truck and trailer and were finished for the day. My Dad stood up and walked over to the truck for a bottle of water. Just then, I heard a *loud* clank. A huge dead branch blew out of another tree and landed on the splitter, crushing the bucket my Dad was sitting on 45 seconds earlier. *You never know... be safe.*


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## k5alive (Feb 14, 2012)

i don't know if you can see her but i believe lady LUCK was there somewhere, glad to see you're ok


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## dingeryote (Feb 14, 2012)

Hey Brad!!!
Notice the "H" is already on the front? :hmm3grin2orange:







Gotta bust on ya a little, cuz nobody jokes with the dead.
Laugh a little between counting the blessings for the 4 millionth time.:biggrinbounce2:

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## wigglesworth (Feb 14, 2012)

WOW.

Part of me wants to yell at ya, and the other part is just glad ur ok. 

U BOZO!!!

Glad ur safe man, your daughter needs her daddy. Wear ur skull bucket!!!


Tis all...


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## Hddnis (Feb 14, 2012)

Glad you're safe. 

Next time you go falling please take the rocket donkey with you, let him run the saw.:hmm3grin2orange:




Mr. HE


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## Terry Syd (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for posting the whole story and video. I prefer to learn from other people's mistakes, rather than my own. I watched the video several times to see how that branch tore away and came back for you, nobody could have predicted the way it broke - which gives emphasis to how dangerous falling is.

I like the tip about pulling on the starter handle, although tying a rope on the handle for someone to pull on is going to be my preferred option - just get away from the stump.


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## mattfr12 (Feb 14, 2012)

ndlawrence said:


> This Is not accurate because the camera could have been at an angle



Not only is that not accurate but if your only looking at the main trunk to figure out where the trees lean is your gonna wind up in trouble fast. The weight up top matters drastically more than the angle of the trunk. I've felled thousands of trees a few thousand a year. I don't pay to much attention to where you have that line drawn. I pay more attention to which side has the big branches shooting off of it twenty to thirty feet.

Trunk lean is only half the battle. Half the time or more we have to drop trees against the lean. 

People make this common mistake a lot. The tree won't go or they keep on cutting until its to late. Next thing you know you took out the hinge. I have no doubt if he had not cut through the hinge he could have put it in its intended path.


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## Stihlman441 (Feb 14, 2012)

Sh_t mate that was a biggy,im glad you came out not to bad it could of been very very bad in a lot of ways,could of slammed ya face into the tear away part of the hinge and lost ya looking with bits. 
Thanks for sharing that took some guts well done. 
Them stack hats don't look all that flash i have even started using one a few weeks ago had a bit of a wake up call when felling a large dead pine,as i was hitting a wedge in a dead branch fell and hit me in the shoulder,could of bean my head. 
:eek2: 
They are still making bars and saw parts and always will be but the more we done this stuff we love the more we learn and the more we do it the chances of something going wrong also increases. 

Cheers
Andrew


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## RazvanGL1 (Feb 14, 2012)

dingeryote said:


> Hey Brad!!!
> Notice the "H" is already on the front? :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> ...



I think this is more pretty :hmm3grin2orange:
Das neue STIHL Helmset ADVANCE: Sicherheit mit Köpfchen - YouTube


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## Slamm (Feb 14, 2012)

Well I just skipped around parts of this thread, pretty typical for a large forum, lots experts out there, LOL.

Brad, glad you are alright. You lived through it and the damage looks pretty neat, something to talk about anyways. As long as you know what you did wrong, there are lotsa ways to gain knowledge and experience and well just chalk it up to experienced gained the hard way and move on, LOL.

I think its neat you got it on video and all, it will be great to show the grandkids. Both of my girls were walking by the computer when I looked at your damage shots, and they said, "Cool" and "Nice", they are morbid individuals, LOL.

Use oregano oil to get a faster healing time and arnica gel to get the black and blue bruising to go away faster, years of logging and bullriding will get your self-healthcare program down pat, LOL.

Glad you are alright,

Sam


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## mtfallsmikey (Feb 14, 2012)

You're a lucky man, Brad. I run like hell when the tree starts to go.


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## blsnelling (Feb 14, 2012)

RiverRat2 said:


> Brad,,, I know you understand how blessed you were today,,
> 
> What Im about to laydown,,,,I havent talked about much,,,,,
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing RR. I'm sure that wasn't easy!


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## blsnelling (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm actually quite honored this thread has gone like it has. I appreciate all the kind words, and the tips here and there. There have been some good ones. I'm glad I posted it now. I'm taking one more day off today to rest up. I'll get back in the saddle tomorrow. I still felt a little woozy yesterday, but nothing bad. I haven't lost anything in the frig yet, lol. That was a good one


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## rob066 (Feb 14, 2012)

WOW!! Good thing your injuries werent worse. This is a reminder how fast a situation can turn. There were two local loggers that were hit similar to you. Both lived, but were lifeflighted for head trauma. Both of them had wear halos for a year because of severe neck injuries. You are one lucky man Brad.


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## Tzed250 (Feb 14, 2012)

Holy smokes Brad, you almost let that tree punch your timecard. On a lighter note it did improve your looks significantly... 

I never fall without my hardhat, boots, gloves, etc. A while back we talked about you getting some formal training. If you are going to continue to cut then it would help you a great deal. 

Get well soon..


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## OhioGregg (Feb 14, 2012)

Geeez! The things ya miss from being away from AS for a couple days. Better seeing this on here, than hearing about a much worse outcome on the TV news. Glad your still with us Brad. !!!
I had a dead branch break out of a hickory tree I was felling about 4 years ago, caught me in the head. Had a chain cath my left thigh, just above the knee, many years ago. Just cut my insulated Carhartt bibs, and nothing underneath. (Whew!)I now wear a helmet when dropping trees, and wear chaps when working also. I never used to wear any of that stuff, (old stubborn farmer thing) LOL. 

The cartoon pic in my avitar is kind of a reminder to me..Now can be for you also..LOL

Thanks for posting that video! That took some guts. Knowing some of the reaction ya might get on here. But, I'm glad ya did. Hope the healing goes quickly, with no lingering side affects. :msp_smile:


Gregg,


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## Tzed250 (Feb 14, 2012)

Pete Puma How Many Lumps do you Want? Full Clip HD - YouTube


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## Wolfcsm (Feb 14, 2012)

Brad,

Thank you for sharing your experiences. It just may keep one of us from a simular fate.

Hal


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## jpsheb (Feb 14, 2012)

Wow, thanks for posting that! 

This could have happened to most of us. Sometimes the little things add up to conspire against us. 

I always wear my PPE, but have been known to leave the wedges and seldom have a backup saw at the tree (except for the one's I think will be the problem.) Usually don't have too much trouble forgetting about the saw, but it's those widowmakers I worry about. 

I even make sure I have a clear path from the tree, but usually don't move a whole lot further back than you did. So, after watching your vid (that 20-second interlude was pretty eerie), I'll have to make sure to keep the wedgs & backup-saw handy. And to get *far* from that tree when it starts coming down.


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## Kenskip1 (Feb 14, 2012)

Brad, What I have to say has already been covered.After getting thrown buy the horse what is supposed to happen?Yes get right back into the saddle.After you are mended just use some good common sense.Do not let your fears stop you.Did you have a cell phone in your pocket?Your wife should give you a royal chewing out.Next time you get the urge to make a video"for you guys" have an assistant and forget the camera. Concentrate on the task at hand.
Want to get really shook up? Wait until you get the hospital bill!I am glad that you are in one piece.Be safe,Ken


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## hardpan (Feb 14, 2012)

Complacency? Yes and we are all guilty. That is the leading cause of accidents. About 30 years ago I was a little too comfortable with my saw and now have a faded scar about 3" above my left knee. I am a coal miner and we are required to have an 8 hour safety refresher class each year, mostly reminding us of our daily hazards. By sharing your accident with us you have given us a safety class. Thank you and I hope you know how many people you have helped here. Now heal up and go back at it. You know this doesn't happen to people who stay home in their plastic bubble.


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## chrisoppie (Feb 14, 2012)

Oh my!
lucky... Speedy recovery man!


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## wampum (Feb 14, 2012)

Brad,glad to see you made it out of that with minor damage.It could have been a lot worse.We all have at times had accidents,thank you for sharing this.

We all know you like to port things................................................................................................................................but please stick to saws ????


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## Dan_IN_MN (Feb 14, 2012)

wampum said:


> Brad,glad to see you made it out of that with minor damage.It could have been a lot worse.We all have at times had accidents,thank you for sharing this.
> 
> We all know you like to port things................................................................................................................................but *please stick to saws * ????



It's all about 'air flow'!


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## kam (Feb 14, 2012)

Brad,

Hope you have a speedy recovery...and thanks for sharing.


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## ken45 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks so much for sharing. It's a wakeup call/reminder to many of us.

How many times did you have to do reshoots to get the film just right? 

I don't believe anyone can judge every tree 100% of the time. We try to do our best (most of the time) but not everything can be properly analyzed all the time.

Things like this remind me of _Fire On The Rim_ a recounting of a backcountry firefighter at Grand Canyon NP. The crew had lots of experience dropping burning snags in the best direction for extinguishing them. One slow day they were asked to drop a dead tree in the campground. The experience crew sized it up and was sure which way it was going. Well it went 180 degrees the other way and landed on an (unoccupied) tent!

Even the most experienced cannot predict with 100% reliability.

Thanks again.

Ken


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## RiverRat2 (Feb 14, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> Not only is that not accurate but if your only looking at the main trunk to figure out where the trees lean is your gonna wind up in trouble fast. The weight up top matters drastically more than the angle of the trunk. I've felled thousands of trees a few thousand a year. I don't pay to much attention to where you have that line drawn. I pay more attention to which side has the big branches shooting off of it twenty to thirty feet.
> 
> Trunk lean is only half the battle. Half the time or more we have to drop trees against the lean.
> 
> People make this common mistake a lot. The tree won't go or they keep on cutting until its to late. Next thing you know you took out the hinge. I have no doubt if he had not cut through the hinge he could have put it in its intended path.



Exactly!!!! without your hinge wood you loose control,,, that is what you steer with!!!


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## blsnelling (Feb 14, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Pete Puma How Many Lumps do you Want? Full Clip HD - YouTube


That was good. Lisa and Anna love cartoons. I'll have to share that with them



OhioGregg said:


> The cartoon pic in my avitar is kind of a reminder to me..Now can be for you also..LOL


Good one Gregg



Kenskip1 said:


> Did you have a cell phone in your pocket?


That's one thing I do right. I don't go cutting without it. I thought I was going to have to use it this time. Instead, I drove home, got another saw, had to mix fuel, and went back to rescue my 390

I don't know what to think about being branded with a capital H:msp_scared: The three Huskies I have are three of the finest, fastest, and best saws made, but.................they're still Huskies


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## Dan_IN_MN (Feb 14, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> .........
> I don't know what to think about being *branded with a capital H*:msp_scared: The three Huskies I have are three of the finest, fastest, and best saws made, but.................they're still Huskies



Well....how close are you going to keep that part of your hair cut?


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## blsnelling (Feb 14, 2012)

Let's look at some helmets that might best fit my needs. It needs to be ventilated. I sweat profusely. I want a helmet with a chin strap. I like those that can be fitted with a visor, although not a deal breaker. Some have foam padding, others do not. One of you guys mentioned another brand, and I can't find it now.

Petzl Vertex

Petzl Alveo

Kask Super Plasma


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## blsnelling (Feb 14, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Well....how close are you going to keep that part of your hair cut?



It's bald there right now!!! All the hair was pulled out by the roots.


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## Trx250r180 (Feb 14, 2012)

glad your ok , im guilty of falling without the hard hat ,mostly on my own property clearing so dont think anything of it ,im getting one after seeing your mishap ,thanks for sharing ,i probly would have tried to save the saw like you did ,think ill let it go now after seeing what happens in real life ,saws can be repaired /replaced


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## heimannm (Feb 14, 2012)

Brad, it was certainly big of you to post and a very good reminder.

Thanks for being interested enough in the well being of others to share this experience. We are all guilty of being a little complacent from time to time.

And if we ever run out of entertainment, I say we put Space Mule and PM610 together for a couple of days...

Mark


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## GASoline71 (Feb 14, 2012)

You should treat every tree you fall like it has the potential to kill you... because it does.

Glad you're okay. 

Gary


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## Old Crosscut (Feb 14, 2012)

I’m often away from the _family_ here, but I always return--and I always learn. And what a lesson, this one; thanks, Brad. Sure glad you’re back!


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## rmihalek (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm glad you made it through that impact Brad. Hopefully you'll recover quickly.

Bob


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## avalancher (Feb 14, 2012)

Brad, I am glad you made it out of that alive and for the most part just bashed up a bit. But I will caution you on one thing. Keep an eye on yourself for awhile. I learned the hard way and I would hate to see the same thing happen to you.

Two years ago I took a whack to the head from a branch in a very similar fashion as yours. The tree fell to the ground, but on the way down caught a branch from another tree, bent the thing over, and when it sprang back it snapped off and caught me on the left side of my head, right below my helmet brim. Had a nasty cut and a bit of bruising, and as a precaution I went to the ER and they said I had a few cracks in the head but things would be okay. Give it some time they said.

Fast forward a month later. I had an earache that would not quite, and finally went to see the doc and he said I had an ear infection and gave me some antibiotics. The pain left for a bit, then returned. After three attempts at curing the earache, the doc sent me to a specialist, and after a MRI and a CT scan, he determined that I had an infection in the mastoid bone in my skull.

The infection spread to my lower jaw, and as a result I lost all the teeth on the left side of my jaw. Surgery to implant a draining tube in my ear ended up costing me most of my hearing in my left ear, and to this day I sometimes have a loss of balance because of the damage to my ear. It took 60 days of some severe antibiotics to cure the mastoid infection, and the antibiotics did a number on my stomach as well. In the end, I could have saved myself a lot of grief if I had simply paid attention to what my body had to say after getting whacked in the head.
I ignored the constant pain in the side of my head until the earache started. And never connected the ear ache thing with the whack in the head and failed to mention it to my doc. It wasnt until the specialist looked at the film and asked me what the heck happened to the side of my head did I connect the two.

Brad, do yourself a favor. Pay attention to anything that is out of the ordinary for you for awhile. While some things may not seem relevant, make sure you bring it up if you have to go see the doc for anything else that may come along. Head injuries are nothing to fool with.


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## wendell (Feb 14, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> In case some of you missed it, *I did have a CAT scan done* of my entire head. I was hit in multiple places and also had a sore jaw. I have no idea how that happened, as there's no visible reason for it.



Brad, the CT scan is just looking for fractures or internal bleeding. It will not show signs of a concussion or a mild traumatic brain injury (MTBI). Post concussion syndrome or MTBI can change your life (and not in a good way). Be vigilant and get checked out if you notice any symptoms.

Mild Traumatic Brain Injury Symptoms | Concussions | Mild Head Injuries | Resources & Support

And as almost everyone has said, thanks for sharing. You did a good thing.


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## blsnelling (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for sharing that. I hope you're better now. I've always said that there's nothing safe about cutting wood. You can be as safe a possible, but there's always risks there, just waiting for you to get careless or make a mistake.


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## wsg (Feb 14, 2012)

A lot of good if not great advice has been given about PPE. I always wear my hardhat, eye protection, hearing protection and now getting used to wearing chaps. The chaps were a present from my wife after I'd seen them on this site. You can say hats will get knocked off.. Luck of the draw.. or such but if it had stopped only one of the blows to the head I know youd have felt better. 

I just wanted to thank you for the post and video Brad! It was very educational and brave of you. 

In my mind it's like this...

I don't wear PPE because people here tell me to. 
I don't wear PPE because friends tell me to. 
I don't wear PPE because it's the right thing to do. 
I don't wear PPE because my family wants me to. 

I wear PPE because my family wants ME!!! 

This sappy message brought to you on Valentines Day! Enjoy your Family Brad!


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## jropo (Feb 14, 2012)

View attachment 223868


Thought you could use a laugh.


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## creekbuster (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for taking the time to post the video and the description on what happened. My wife bought me a husky 350 12 years ago when we moved to the country along with chaps and a helmet. I now wear them after reading posst on what can happen. I'm not sure if the branch hurt more or getting those stapes in the head from the video. Those alone will remind me to wear my gear now.
Glad it all turned out as a good lesson. I got many in my woodworking shop years ago I still remember. 
S*&* happens way to fast anymore it seems.


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## John_DeereGreen (Feb 14, 2012)

When I read the thread title I was expecting you to say you got cut testing a saw...

Glad to hear you're still among the land of the living, and hopefully the recovery goes well! You already know this, but you got very lucky!

I can't imagine what it's going to be like for you to go cut another tree down...my heart still starts beating a little bit faster when I cut them down, and the only thing that happened to me when one went wrong is bent a cheapy laminated Stihl bar. I don't know that I would ever cut one again if I went through what you did.

Good luck with your recovery!


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## OREGONLOGGER (Feb 14, 2012)

Dang Brad you're one tough SOB to take that most folks couldn't even type after that let alone post a pic. I hope you recover at god speed my friend that's one nasty tree injury you have. Stay quiet and get rest those kind of injurys stay with you several days if not weeks.


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## ChipMonger (Feb 14, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I nearly bought the farm Saturday afternoon while out testing out the 390XP. I've debated back and forth whether or not to share this. Hopefully, someone can learn from my mistakes.
> 
> First of all, I'm *FAR *from a professional. What frustrates me most, is that I know how to do this right. I know all the mistakes I made and how to avoid them. Yes, it's rather embarrasing.
> 
> ...



Holy sh**!!! Im glad you made it out ok with just some minor injuries. I hope you recover quickly.


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## saxman (Feb 14, 2012)

Brad, thank you for being a big enough man to post this incident. Most don't want to publicly admit to mistakes, that is just human nature. As you can see this has turned into a vehicle by which safety can be discussed as it relates to what we like to do. It brings home the point that dropping any tree is a dangerous undertaking. ALL of us here have done stupid things when using saws, fortunately we skated by for the most part. In the future I know I will stop and think in a situation like you faced and hopefully many others that read this thread will also. Maybe we should coin a phrase from this thread to keep it fresh in our memory, maybe WWBD (what would Brad do) or in the case (what should Brad do). Thanks again for turning a negative into a positive


Steve


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## redoakneck (Feb 14, 2012)

You have taught me a lot, and this is the most important lesson right here. My next felling is going to be nerve racking, you only had a few trees around and still got wacked. All the physics and geometry could not have predicted the movement of that branch. Great post and vid-rep sent.


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## promac850 (Feb 14, 2012)

heimannm said:


> Brad, it was certainly big of you to post and a very good reminder.
> 
> Thanks for being interested enough in the well being of others to share this experience. We are all guilty of being a little complacent from time to time.
> 
> ...



Careful what you wish for... a lawyer dude vs. a firewood guy... only one leaves the ring... it'd be like MMA _and_ WWE on steroids.




As for the complacent issue... been there done that. Not with trees yet, but with lots of other stuff. Like my car. Take this from me, driving like an ####### will catch up with you. Apparently, I wasn't as much as an ####### driver like I thought I was...

Got too comfy... glanced at the gauges telling oil pressure, voltage, and oil temp... look back up and "Oh ####..." slowed the car down some before rear ending the guy in front of me. It didn't help that he was trying to turn left on a busy two way country road. Obviously 3/4 of the crash responsibility was mine since I wasn't looking ahead at that moment. 

Things tend to happen a lot faster than most think. And we tend to surprise ourselves every now and then.

#### happens. Hopefully it doesn't make your life ####ty.


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## blsnelling (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm borrowing this from a friend, thought it perhaps appropriate right now


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## Stumpys Customs (Feb 14, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'm borrowing this from a friend, thought it perhaps appropriate right now



Glad to see you made it trough the mess alright.:msp_biggrin:

I can see your video makeing it into the WTF thread with a title "your doing it wrong":msp_scared:


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## 7hpjim (Feb 14, 2012)

Glad to see you walked away from that one!!!Lesson learned and you have given a heads up to a lot of people about PPE and situational awareness, give yourself some time to mend up and then get back to making this site a great place to spend some time!!, and also thank God for blessing you with such a HARD HEAD!!


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## promac850 (Feb 14, 2012)

Stumpys Customs said:


> Glad to see you made it trough the mess alright.:msp_biggrin:
> 
> I can see your video makeing it into the WTF thread with a title "your doing it wrong":msp_scared:



Someone already put his non high res. video in the WTF thread... yesterday.

I will not say who it was. 

Will say that it wasn't me.

The poster did say "Candidate for Darwin Award" or something like that.


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## Stumpys Customs (Feb 14, 2012)

promac610 said:


> Someone already put his non high res. video in the WTF thread... yesterday.
> 
> I will not say who it was.
> 
> ...



HAHA, I need to get out more:msp_biggrin:


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## logbutcher (Feb 14, 2012)

You're one tough hombre Brad. It takes some cojones to give us this detailed debrief with pics on your screw up. 

We all learn.....thanks. No machismo in this trade.


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## Stihl n Wood (Feb 14, 2012)

Don't let anyone fool you Brad, luckily your ok. But I must say when your in the tree bizz or not it can happen to anyone. Trees can be misleading and weight of how they lean or wind, there's so many factors. You can think you know it all and done it all but there's always that day things just go wrong. I climb almost day to day if not climbing im in the bucket or on the ground dropping trees. Doing Crane work to can be very misleading. Although it looks so easy it can go wrong too. Tops can flip or twist and you get nailed by a branch. Or when the pieces are being lifted it hits another tree sending branches flying. I've come to take my days as serious and safe as possible. But no matter what I always expect sh#t to go unplanned at some point. Thanks for your story many will learn from it.


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## MS460WOODCHUCK (Feb 14, 2012)

Glad to see you're alright Brad (for the most part anyhow) 

We all make mistakes and learn from them if given the chance to learn from them which you were lucky enough to get!

I know all this PPE is important and that I own none and should invest in it but I think the most important PPE is cutting partner out there with ya. I play with the saws in the back yard like most on here do but I WILL NOT GO TO THE WOODS OR ANYWHERE TO CUT A TREE DOWN BY MYSELF! NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL! I value my life too much to even think about it. 

I'm not trying to preach by any means because it is not my place. I just don't want ya to think that once you get your new hat/lid/helmet and throw your chaps on that your ready, don't forget to stop by and pick up your buddy or anyone that can dial 911 for that matter. Could make all the difference in the world!


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## alderman (Feb 14, 2012)

This obviously got through to quite a few folks. You made something positive out of this mishap.

I showed it to a guy at work. He's been talking about taking down some trees, but doesn't have a clue on what he is doing. We've been preaching to him to hire it done and I think this video got his attention. I hope you don't mind that I put this to good use.

Of course I had to lie and say Brad really knows what he is doing and if this could happen to him...........

Out here we all know some folks who went to work in the woods and never came back alive so its well worth the effort to pay attention out there.


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## Carlyle (Feb 14, 2012)

I have yet to break a plastic helmet only ripped the carriage out of a skull bucket in cold weather. I have four helmets and find the Rockman to be the best so far, vented but no chin strap. Skull bucket falls off my head too much. Ever notice the Pros on Axeman grabbing for their helmet when they are running thru the bush, yup because it falls off. I have tried the skull bucket many a time but it falls backwards when I am cutting and looking up. Just my two cents. Also I’m not sure if there is a good time to take the helmet off while the saw is running. I have heard from a couple guys of the brim of the preferred helmet catching the saw as it kicked backed at them. Oh wait, sorry kickbacks never happen either!! Good look to you, and keep looking if you don't find the right helmet. No sense in leaving it in the truck if it doesn't work.


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## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 14, 2012)

Glad you are all right Brad. Watched video:msp_scared: all I can say is you have an angle wathing over you.


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## chainsaw kid (Feb 14, 2012)

Boy oh boy you are a lucky man. I am happy you made it through this ordeal without getting seriously hurt. Thank you for sharing this.

Kevin


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## edisto (Feb 14, 2012)

First off, I wish people would quit saying how lucky he was. I saw the video, and that's what we call bad luck where I'm from. 

Second, I think complacency and carelessness skirt the issue. The problem is cockiness, which leads to the other 2. Happens to everyone that knocks down a few trees without incident when they are starting out.

I know...I've seen me do it.

It's good of you to post the vid Brad, because it is all too easy to lose the proper respect for what can happen when knocking down a tree.

Glad it wasn't worse.


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## eat a peach (Feb 14, 2012)

*wow*

I am not gonna say anything judgmental ,really don't have anything to add. I would go home and kiss my wife and kids. Somebody loves you and your work is not done. That is what I have gleaned from the fact you are still here. I once heard the only people who make no mistakes are those who do no work. Glad to still have you around B.S.


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## PB (Feb 14, 2012)

Damn Brad!! That looks like it hurt. Glad you are okay and hopefully many lessons were learned from your misfortune. Take some tylenol and put on a helmet. 

If there is an upside; I just showed your pictures to my wife and she gave me the thumbs up for a new helmet system.  \

Be safe out there!!


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## Eric106 (Feb 14, 2012)

Brad, glad your okay and thanks for beig willing to post this for others to learn from.



blsnelling said:


> Let's look at some helmets that might best fit my needs. It needs to be ventilated. I sweat profusely. I want a helmet with a chin strap. I like those that can be fitted with a visor, although not a deal breaker. Some have foam padding, others do not. One of you guys mentioned another brand, and I can't find it now.
> 
> Petzl Vertex
> 
> ...



I had been looking at the Vertex Vent but have recently been leaning towards the Kask. I like the design of the two side adjusters in the Vertex as it looks like it will keep your head well centered. And the lump from the single rear adjustment knob mechanism style often give me a headache if they're tight enough to keep a hard hat or welding helmet on my head securly. The Kask however seems to be a slightly superior design and it looks like it will provide more protection. I'm still on the fence but will probably be getting one of those two in the near future.

Let us know what you get and how you like it.

-Eric


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## chainsawlady (Feb 14, 2012)

*Story of many years ago*



eat a peach said:


> I am not gonna say anything judgmental ,really don't have anything to add. I would go home and kiss my wife and kids. Somebody loves you and your work is not done. That is what I have gleaned from the fact you are still here. I once heard the only people who make no mistakes are those who do no work. Glad to still have you around B.S.



Having been around many years, I'd like to add my two cents worth. I heard this story many time as I grew up. It was probably in the 1930's and my mother and father cut the trees for our firewood for two wood stoves to keep the old log house warm. One on each end of the crosscut. When the tree started to fall, Dad told Mom to run, but didn't tell her which way to go. She went the way the tree was falling and when the tree hit the ground, she was just out of the way. In the past few years, my son fell a lot of trees for firewood and did some logging. Luckily he had a friend who was from a logging family and showed him the proper way to cut a tree, since he wasn't doing it safely. As a mother I appreciated that as I always had a bad feeling when he was in the woods.
chainsawlady


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## airbiscuit (Feb 14, 2012)

Glad you're okay Brad. You always have quality posts, but this one took some cahoneys to post. Anyone who has done much cutting will have a story about a tree that fooled them. I had one that went 90 degrees on me this summer. It was a very dead and dry oak - almost perfectly balanced. I even used a wedge, but I cut a little too far in the hinge. What wood was left was brittle and snapped rather than bent. So the tree goes 90 degrees, and what do I do? Try to save the saw. Instinct I guess.

The tree came down okay with nothing damaged but my ego. I take a moment to try to learn fro this, and then comes the hard part - looking over at my friend who had been watching me. I'm waiting for the smart remark, but he just says I did the same thing last month.

The important thing is to learn from this, and you just helped a lot of us learn or re-learn.

Thanks


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## Cedarkerf (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for the sober reminder gotta sy ouch.

You said it in your post you got hung up saving your saw. When a tree goes bad get the hell away from it then do the scoring tally. Shows guts letting others learn from this and hope for a speedy recovery.

By the way the aluminum skull buckets make a loud clang when branches hit em.


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## Hddnis (Feb 14, 2012)

Brad, FWIW I don't care for the petzl climbing helmets. Others like them fine though and they are well made.

One thing I'll never get again is vent holes. I've had branches poke me through the holes which is really annoying.



Pacific set up. I like these, kinda pricey, but your head is worth it.
Bailey's - Pacific Kevlar Shell Helmet


Peltor, complete system. Tried and true, very good value and they last a long time. We have issued these for years and have no plans to change.
Bailey's - Peltor Lumberjack Series Hardhat - Complete head, face & hearing protection


I'd like to try one of these, or the climber/lineman version. If you want vent holes these look like they would work ok. Price is good the they're feature rich. 
Bailey's - Premium Rockman Lumberjack System


If I'm working on the ground I wear one like this with safety glasses and ear plugs. 
Bailey's - Full Brim Aluminum Hard Hats

I've killed many a tree with this very set-up and had it save my life on two occasions. Once taking a iron hook directly to the top of my hard hat that had been thrown from the road above. Second time I had a widow maker come out of an old growth DF. It was about six inches in diameter and nearly thirty feet long, hit a branch just above me losing most of its energy and then nailing me on the head and shoulder. It twisted my helmet off my head sideways, knocking me to the ground really hard and then landing across my leg. My head was saved by the helmet, my leg was saved by a small dip in the ground. I was eighteen and in top physical shape and I still hurt for two years from the huge blow that branch dealt me. I keep the two helmets to remind me how quick it can end. 


Any helmet you use is better than none and if you get one and don't like it try another one.




Mr. HE


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## wigglesworth (Feb 14, 2012)

Here is the helmet I use. Offers fantastic protection.







And has the optional flip up face sheild.






It aint worth two poots for ludicrous speed though....


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## nick 55 (Feb 14, 2012)

Personally, I am a helmet guy. I have one for the bike, the snowboard, the cars(only on the track, as you look real silly driving to the store with one on), and a Husky helmet for the woodcutting. I know you want a chinstrap and this one doesn't have one, but it stays on unless I am hanging upside down. Your head may be shaped differently, but it works for me.

Nick


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## blsnelling (Feb 14, 2012)

Hddnis said:


> One thing I'll never get again is vent holes. I've had branches poke me through the holes which is really annoying.



Have you looked at that Kask Super Plasma? It has "grills" over the vent holes.


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## adkranger (Feb 14, 2012)

Brad, I commend you for the tailgate safety lesson. Took balls to post this when the easy thing would be simply to delete the vid and move on. Anyone who has cut and felled long enough has had close calls. You'll take lumps for this thread, even if they aren't posted, AS can be a ruthless place. Hopefully the benefit of the lesson will prove more valuable, especially to our newer sawyers out there.

When things go wrong, they go wrong in a hurry and many times from where you weren't expecting it. Be prepared physically and mentally, wear your PPE, identify your hazards, plan out your fell, identify and clear your escape route.......use it.


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## LazyJ (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm very skull sensitive. I get crazy looks but I won't walk on a golf course without a hard hat. I won't walk through the woods on a windy day without one. I'll probaby wear one to bed after watching that video.


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## homelitejim (Feb 15, 2012)

wow long thread, just skimmed through and here is my 2 cents. Glad you are ok, sometimes it pays to be thick headed, remember to get back on the bike.


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## K.C. (Feb 15, 2012)

Brad, thank you for posting that story and video. I have learned from this as I'm sure others have as well and I am glad you were not hurt any worse.


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## Eric106 (Feb 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Have you looked at that Kask Super Plasma? It has "grills" over the vent holes.



I found a few videos that show the helemet a bit better than still pictures.

TREEGEAR TV - KASK Climbing Arborist Helmet - YouTube

Kask Helmets - YouTube

stein super plasma pl helmet - YouTube

stein helmet review - YouTube

-Eric


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## Tree Sling'r (Feb 15, 2012)

Like Forrest Gump said, SH!t Happens, glad your okay.


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Dang Brad......I just saw this. Glad you made it out of the woods. Thanks for posting this too. I've had my share of close calls......enough to know that there is no such thing as too careful. I'm gonna get a good skull bucket.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 15, 2012)

i just spent about 3 hours reading this thread.

Brad, thanks for caring enough about the rest of us to share this. there was another thread recently that made me think i should invest in PPE for myself, my wife, and my son who wants to cut with me. THIS thread has solidified in my mind that there will be no cutting until we all have that PPE, and for that i thank you.

as was stated earlier i called my kids in to watch the vid and explained as best i could what was going on, why it was wrong, and what should have been done instead.

you're a good guy Brad. thanks for all you do for us and i'm glad you're ok.


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## TimberMcPherson (Feb 15, 2012)

Jez brad, your to valuable to the saw world to get lost cutting trees! Great lesson, for all. Gear is great!

Glad your okay.


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## Hddnis (Feb 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Have you looked at that Kask Super Plasma? It has "grills" over the vent holes.





I just did a bit of reading on it and it has some features that look really nice. The foam lining looks like it would feel really hot in the summer time, that is about the only down side I can think of. Maybe you could get one and after the swelling of your head goes down you could try it out and write a review for us. 




Mr. HE


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## derwoodii (Feb 15, 2012)

Chicks dig scars
a great brave post that will save lives
my respect to you sport.



meh twas only a husky :msp_sneaky:


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## Eric106 (Feb 15, 2012)

Hddnis said:


> blsnelling said:
> 
> 
> > Have you looked at that Kask Super Plasma? It has "grills" over the vent holes.
> ...



Yes, the foam might be a bit warmer than a suspension strap system but I think it will provide much better protection. Every motorsport or aviation helmet uses a crushable foam liner to absorb impact energy. The foam also allows the helmet to fit much closer to the head and be less bulky.

I found a couple more reviews if anybody is interested. One of these guys appears to have been involved in the U.S. evaluation of the redesign.

New Kask Plasma helmet

It is interesting to note that their plastic visor can be used along with the Peltor mesh screen if you want that combination. Or you can attach the Peltor screen directly to the helmet with a very minor mod to the screen.


-Eric


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## lone wolf (Feb 15, 2012)

Eric106 said:


> I found a few videos that show the helemet a bit better than still pictures.
> 
> TREEGEAR TV - KASK Climbing Arborist Helmet - YouTube
> 
> ...



I have the Kask nice!The Earmuffs were swapped out for larger Peltors because they did not cut out enough noise.


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## MotorSeven (Feb 15, 2012)

Brad, you got me thinking about my cheezy plastic hard hat. So I did some internet surfing and found a real aluminium logging helmet by Forester for $30 and ordered it:

https://www.hivispricesaver.com/ind..._id=79&zenid=32e111076d5412d62bfabe49b3341e0e


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## slowp (Feb 15, 2012)

MotorSeven said:


> Brad, you got me thinking about my cheezy plastic hard hat. So I did some internet surfing and found a real aluminium logging helmet by Forester for $30 and ordered it:
> 
> https://www.hivispricesaver.com/ind..._id=79&zenid=32e111076d5412d62bfabe49b3341e0e



Don't underestimate the "cheesy" plastic hardhats. They seem warmer to me--I've worn them all, but a genuine "pro" timber faller gave his a good test. He was falling a tree, looked up, a limb hit his hardhat as he looked up, glanced off, got him in the jaw--stitches and a sore jaw were the injuries. The hat was cracked, as they are designed to do. Some large timber companies and the Forest Service require their contractors and employees to wear plastic hats. 

The metal ones--now called skull buckets, are what is considered stylish, and are more likely to be stolen.

We like the full brim because of the rain, and there is a theory that the brim provides more protection by deflecting bad stuff a bit more. 

Plastic is better than metal when it comes to noise--co-workers thumping you on the head with sticks and rocks, or when small limbs shower down. The metal can be noisy. However, if you have the headlamp clips on your tin hat, you can annoy your co-workers in the crewbus by plinking the clips with thumbs. It makes a pleasant plinking tone and will soon cause profane language to erupt. :smile2:


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## madhatte (Feb 15, 2012)

slowp said:


> We like the full brim because of the rain, and there is a theory that the brim provides more protection by deflecting bad stuff a bit more.



Also keeps a lot of the junk out of the neckline of your shirt/jacket. That's a big sell for me.


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## RandyMac (Feb 15, 2012)

Yep, full brim metal hats have their advantages, however they will direct noise to your ears.


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## Dennis Cahoon (Feb 15, 2012)

Brad, after viewing your little felling exibition.......Can't wait to see you in one of those lovely orange woodtic "Ladybug" helmets with ear muffs.......Oh we're Loggin Now!......Hahahahahahaha!


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## Dan_IN_MN (Feb 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> .........
> I don't know what to think about being branded with a capital H The three Huskies I have are three of the finest, fastest, and best saws made, but.................they're still Huskies






manyhobies said:


> Well....how close are you going to keep that part of your hair cut?





blsnelling said:


> It's bald there right now!!! All the hair was pulled out by the roots.



I guess it could be worse.......


It could be in a shape of a W


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## RiverRat2 (Feb 15, 2012)

*Ditto!!!!*



adkranger said:


> Brad, I commend you for the tailgate safety lesson. Took balls to post this when the easy thing would be simply to delete the vid and move on. Anyone who has cut and felled long enough has had close calls. You'll take lumps for this thread, even if they aren't posted, AS can be a ruthless place. Hopefully the benefit of the lesson will prove more valuable, especially to our newer sawyers out there.
> 
> When things go wrong, they go wrong in a hurry and many times from where you weren't expecting it. *Be prepared physically and mentally, wear your PPE, identify your hazards, plan out your fell, identify and clear your escape route.......use it*.



Yes Sir Boss!!!! when we get a stand of pine to fall we spend time with the big rake on the track hoe or machette clearing all the saw briars/poison oak/ivy that grow at the base of the trees,,,, you dont want anything snagging your leggs/arms/anything to impede your exit in any fashion,, when that spar commits to the fall,,, you better be gettin some yonder!!!! quick, fast, and in a hurry!!!!


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## homelitejim (Feb 15, 2012)

My late great uncle was a logger back in the day when chainsaws were just coming on the scene. He told me that every day he went to work there was a line of men outside the foreman's tent waiting for a job and he said that line moved pretty fast. Cutting trees down is dangerous work, always has been. At the end of the day you have to lick your wounds, smile, and thank God you made it through another day.


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## blsnelling (Feb 15, 2012)

I can't keep up with my own thread, lol!

Hey, how about we do a group buy on that fancy shmancy new Kask Super Plasma, complete with clear face shield.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Feb 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I can't keep up with my own thread, lol!
> 
> Hey, how about we do a group buy on that fancy shmancy new Kask Super Plasma, complete with clear face shield.



Well....you're a little slower now until you recover.....right? :hmm3grin2orange:


How much would the lid be with a group buy?


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## Trx250r180 (Feb 15, 2012)

well i have to ask ,is the saw fixed yet ?


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## Eric106 (Feb 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I can't keep up with my own thread, lol!
> 
> Hey, how about we do a group buy on that fancy shmancy new Kask Super Plasma, complete with clear face shield.



I'd go for that if it was a good savings and not too much extra hassle since I'm probably going to get one anyway. 

How would the group buy work? 

Are you going to order a pallet of them?


-Eric


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## promac850 (Feb 15, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Yep, full brim metal hats have their advantages, however they will direct noise to your ears.



Ain't nothing wrong with that... It is, after all, how you now get to listen to the various songs of various big McCullochs forever, right?


I'm hearing my 850 right now...


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## lone wolf (Feb 15, 2012)

promac610 said:


> Ain't nothing wrong with that... It is, after all, how you now get to listen to the various songs of various big McCullochs forever, right?
> 
> 
> I'm hearing my 850 right now...



WHAT? WHAT?WHAT?hone:


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## CM76 (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks for sharing your experience Brad - I am glad you made it through okay.
Definitely a valuable lesson for the majority of us who do not cut timber to make a living, as well as those who do. Many experienced guys become complacent with tasks they are familiar with and have 'done it a thousand times before'. I have seen and heard of so many industrial accidents that happen in this manner.

It is great to see a guy who is not too proud to provide valuable safety information to others, and hopefully prevent some of us from making the same mistakes in the future.

My hat goes off to you for this one. Best of luck with the bumps and bruises.

Chris.


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## edisto (Feb 15, 2012)

I just took a quick run through the pages, so if this has been covered, I apologize. 

It seems to me the focus (apart from everyone being glad it was not more serious than it turned out to be) has been shifted to PPE. I think that that is the wrong lesson. There were a lot of things here that would have made PPE unneccessary in this case. PPE is designed for the unexpected, not for the avoidable.

It has been more than 20 years since I ran a saw for money, and that was only in the summers, so I hope some of the experienced folks we have on here will step up and offer proper suggestions. I'm just trying to start a discussion.

The first problem was that the lean was misjudged. Space got crapped on for suggesting the camera angle showed the lean well...I hate to agree with Space, but that is the direction the tree fell, in spite of coaxing to the contrary.

It has been been mentioned that cutting an escape route is the first thing the saw should be doing, but those don't help if you don't use them! 

The second problem is that a huge clue about the lean was ignored. When the bar gets stuck, it is time for a serious re-evaluation. Looking at the video, I see 2 back-cuts, suggesting a second one was made directly above (or below?) the first. 

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over, and expecting a different result.

"Should of had wedges" was taken as a lesson from the first cut, but having them didn't help with the second.

I haven't been in this situation, but I would put another face in, higher up, in the direction of the lean, and drop the tree with the lean. Hopefully someone will chime in with a better solution and/or the problems with that suggestion.

Leaving the saw when the tree started to go was an obvious lesson, but I think more would benefit from a discussion of how to avoid getting the saw stuck in the first place, removing the temptation to linger by the tree.

Thanks again for posting this Brad...I'm sure it has been a big benefit for others, even if it adds to your pains.


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## RandyMac (Feb 15, 2012)

Brad's mind was on testing his pretty saw, not on the job at hand. Brad should stick to over revving saws and slamming them on square cants.


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## Tzed250 (Feb 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I can't keep up with my own thread, lol!
> 
> Hey, how about we do a group buy on that fancy shmancy new Kask Super Plasma, complete with clear face shield.




How about a group buy on a Phased Plasma Rifle in the 40 watt range???


.


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## slowp (Feb 15, 2012)

Here is a plastic hardhat, on display at the landing, after the shovel ran over it. No head was inside the hat at the time.






View attachment 224131


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## weimedog (Feb 15, 2012)

Wow...a wake up call to all who are willing to be honest. I'm first glad you are still here to give us a reality check, certainly sorry you got hurt. Just hope all goes well in your recovery...


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## blsnelling (Feb 15, 2012)

The best deal I've found on the Kask Super Plasma is $115.95. The clear shield is $49.95. I've emailed to see if there would be a discount for 10 or more. I've also contacted Grande Dog to see if he can get them.


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## weimedog (Feb 15, 2012)

I certain all this has been said before...Every one will "miss read" from time to time...sometimes its wind, sometimes the trunk goes one way but the bulk of the top is weighed a different way..I work alone in the woods, A lot! Seeing that gives me pause. Been there a few times. I've learned to take what many might conciser a Chicken Chit approach to situations that rapidly have become out of my control, like that pinch. You have to know when its out of your control too..some just get too stubborn. 

As soon as I pinch like that.....first thing I do is...step back and re evaluate what going on. In something like that, chances are your not going to be able to use that stuck saw anymore so...

The NEXT thing I do Is shut it down and take off the power head. Leave that bar stuck right where it is..but w/o the power head.

THEN go get my back up saw..I always have one. And build plan around the new situation. ...saved my ass more than a few times taking a cautions approach.

Sorry again for the accident, but glad you can make all of us think a little about the risk we all take.


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## jimdad07 (Feb 15, 2012)

First off I am glad you posted this Brad, I am surprised in a good way that you did, takes a lot of ballz to post something like this. You don't need me to tell you how lucky you are and that it could have easily killed you deader than a post or what you did wrong. We have all made mistakes out there and just be thankful that when we do we are able to go home, not everybody is that lucky. Thanks for posting and I know I am taking some lessons away with me from your post. The biggest one being:

When you port saws, you want to cut down bigger trees,
when you cut down bigger trees, you get hit in the head with branches,
when you get hit in the head with branches, you get H's embedded in your fore head,
when you get H's embedded in your fore head people start to think that you like Huskies, 
when people start to think you like Huskies, they start to call you names,
don't get called names, stop porting saws.

JK, glad you walked away from it all.


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## blsnelling (Feb 15, 2012)

Now they call me *Knothead*! Perhas I was a Stihlhead before, now I'm a steelhead, with the staples and all


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## 2dogs (Feb 15, 2012)

Hey Brad I am glad you're still vertical! Your incident and the way you posted it should help us all. I just hope it is your last brush with the grim reaper. Heal quick and get back out there.


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## Rounder (Feb 15, 2012)

2dogs said:


> Hey Brad I am glad you're still vertical! Your incident and the way you posted it should help us all. I just hope it is your last brush with the grim reaper. Heal quick and get back out there.



Wasn't going to add anything, but I'll second that. 

Plastic hard hats are cheap. If you're tipping a tree, wear one. I've been knocked on my ass plenty, but always with the hat on. Extremely cheap insurance. Glad you're alive. A lot of guys aren't.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Feb 15, 2012)

jimdad07 said:


> When you port saws, you want to cut down bigger trees,
> when you cut down bigger trees, you get hit in the head with branches,
> when you get hit in the head with branches, you get H's embedded in your fore head,
> when you get H's embedded in your fore head people start to think that you like Huskies,
> ...



OR....

All cats are animals
All dogs are animals
All dogs are cats!


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## Eric106 (Feb 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The best deal I've found on the Kask Super Plasma is $115.95. The clear shield is $49.95. I've emailed to see if there would be a discount for 10 or more. I've also contacted Grande Dog to see if he can get them.



This place has the helmets for $108 but I do not see the clear visors listed. They have the smoke at $58 which is $1.95 cheaper than the next best place I've found. You should be able to get most places to at least price match. Then start talking about a quantity discount. 

Start Rescue Confined Space Training and Rescue Equipment: CMC Super Plasma Helmets by KASK, Helmets/Personal Gear, 346200

Treestuff.com says they will match prices (FAQ #3) and has a 5% discount just for finding it in their FAQ (FAQs #1). Five percent off $108 would take the price down to $102.60 each. They also offer free shipping (FAQ #14) on orders over $100 and bulk or corporate discounts (FAQ #8) so you could probably get some more off there. Plus they're a site sponsor so they might take off a little more for that too. You could probably use the price difference on the smoke shields to get them to lower the clear ones $1.95 too. With the $1.95 off and the 5% discount that would take the clear shields down to $45.60 before any quantity discount.


-Eric


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## Anthony_Va. (Feb 15, 2012)

Glad you're OK man. When things like this happen and you make it through, you bring more knowledge to the table next time. It's good to have a close call or two just to keep you on your toes, as long as it don't bury you first. 

I hope this video teaches a free lesson to those who don't take tree cutting seriously.

Another lesson would be: if you're not getting paid good money to cut a tricky tree then just leave it there. No use in getting killed for nothing.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 16, 2012)

Eric106 said:


> This place has the helmets for $108 but I do not see the clear visors listed. They have the smoke at $58 which is $1.95 cheaper than the next best place I've found. You should be able to get most places to at least price match. Then start talking about a quantity discount.
> 
> Start Rescue Confined Space Training and Rescue Equipment: CMC Super Plasma Helmets by KASK, Helmets/Personal Gear, 346200
> 
> ...



WOW! that was alot of research. someone get this man a cigar


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## Philbert (Feb 16, 2012)

Eric106 said:


> This place has the helmets for $108 but I do not see the clear visors listed. They have the smoke at $58 which is $1.95 cheaper than the next best place I've found.



Wonder if they have mesh visors - plastic scratched.

Philbert


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## roostersgt (Feb 16, 2012)

Wow! I just decided to read this thread. Brad, I'm truly sorry to hear of your injuries and I am glad you're all right. Your threads and comments are some of my favorites and among the most informative. My prayers are for your speedy and complete recovery. God bless.

Steve


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## CentaurG2 (Feb 16, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> How about a group buy on a Phased Plasma Rifle in the 40 watt range???
> 
> 
> .



Hey, Just what you see pal. 

Terminator 1 gun store - YouTube


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## jpsheb (Feb 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The best deal I've found on the Kask Super Plasma is $115.95. The clear shield is $49.95. I've emailed to see if there would be a discount for 10 or more. I've also contacted Grande Dog to see if he can get them.



The Kasks look like very good arborist hard-hats--thinking of getting one for my climbing gear (I've just been using my Husqvarna chainsaw hat). 

For ground work these timberjacks look like good helmets too:
TimberJak Premium Helmet





View attachment 224234


The one in the pic has a visor under the brim as well as a face shield. Although they dont come with chin-straps, they have the connection points for them. As the face shield on my Husky helmet has been broken for some time (sprung branch), Im thinking of getting one of these...the husky will have to be demoted to a construction hard-hat.

Or, you could go truly over the top and get one of these with built in AM/FM+Two-way and organics filter for the exhaust. 




View attachment 224235


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## edisto (Feb 16, 2012)

So...if Brad had accidentally shot himself in the foot, we'd all be shopping for steel-toed boots?

Unbelievable...


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## jpsheb (Feb 16, 2012)

edisto said:


> So...if Brad had accidentally shot himself in the foot, we'd all be shopping for steel-toed boots?
> 
> Unbelievable...



Umm...yeah. So, Brad, please don't drop a tree on your truck. Because then I'd have an excuse to go buy an up-armored forwarder:msp_tongue:

Maybe he's right--when an incident discussion comes up, we really shouldn't acknoledge the role of PPE. After all, if we just focused on process and thinking we would never have any accidents and PPE would be not be needed right? Come to think of it, I'll bet PPE's just a racket in cahoots with insurance companies. 
[/sarcasm off]


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## weimedog (Feb 16, 2012)

edisto said:


> So...if Brad had accidentally shot himself in the foot, we'd all be shopping for steel-toed boots?
> 
> Unbelievable...



PPE's are a good thing. I wear steel toe boots...have to at work and learned to bring that mentality home & blend it with my 25plus years of racing motorcycles. I wear my Stihl brand Head PPE, hard hat/face screen. Don't like the clear plastic stuff as it fogs over.

I wear Boots, Pants with knee pads, gloves, helmet, etc every time I ride my dirt bikes..and a good solid helmet every time I ride my Street bikes. Comfort of boots gloves and helmet are critical to the experience. Same as gloves and head gear are critical to working the saws.

SO..yea you pay attention to things that go wrong and to a discussion of PPE's that might have helped! And when folks come forward with a concept that better and especially more comfortable to help give more effective PPE protection and make it more comfortable to do the task at hand be it riding motorcycles, changing plow blades, or cutting trees.

And I get shut down every time I bring it up with the females in the house...and now when they come back from the barn with a mashed foot stepped on by a horse.....as happened last week. Concerned but less sympathetic.


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## edisto (Feb 16, 2012)

jpsheb said:


> Maybe he's right--when an incident discussion comes up, we really shouldn't acknoledge the role of PPE. After all, if we just focused on process and thinking we would never have any accidents and PPE would be not be needed right? Come to think of it, I'll bet PPE's just a racket in cahoots with insurance companies.
> [/sarcasm off]



The point is that this hasn't been an incident discussion. I didn't say PPE shouldn't be discussed, I said the root cause of the accident should be. Show a picture of the stump, break down what broke down, and discuss measures to avoid creating a similar situation.[/drama queen suppressor off]


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## Eric106 (Feb 16, 2012)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> WOW! that was alot of research. someone get this man a cigar



Thanks. I don't have a lot of saw experience to share so I'm glad to contribute where I can.

-Eric


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## jpsheb (Feb 16, 2012)

edisto said:


> So...if Brad had accidentally shot himself in the foot, we'd all be shopping for steel-toed boots?
> 
> Unbelievable...



I think you might have forgotten to turn your drama-queen supression on for your earlier post:msp_rolleyes:

Seriously, people have been discussing both actions/choices as well as PPE. Just seems kind of strange to have someone start lamenting the PPE side discussion or even *gasp* start actually talking about buying PPE. The comment in quotes sounds like the type of thing you might expect from a sit-com grandma...not an experienced chainsawyer. 

IMHO, the PPE is made for a reason, and any discussion of it is a welcome thing.


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## forestryworks (Feb 16, 2012)

Widowmakers are spooky! Glad you're alright, Brad.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Sr6lDBbOQdo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## slowp (Feb 16, 2012)

jpsheb said:


> I think you might have forgotten to turn your drama-queen supression on this one:msp_rolleyes:
> 
> Seriously, people have been discussing both actions/choices as well as PPE. Just seems kind of strange to have someone start lamenting the PPE side discussion or even *gasp* start actually talking about buying PPE. The comment in quotes sounds like the type of thing you might expect from a sit-com grandma...not an experienced chainsawyer.
> 
> IMHO, the PPE is made for a reason, and any discussion of it is a welcome thing.



You insult grandmas. My friend who is a grandma, probably uses her saw more than many on this forum, and she has not had a chainsaw or cutting accident. Never. Yes, she wears PPE all the time she is cutting. She runs a 360 with 28 inch bar, except it is not running right now so she has borrowed her husband's 440.

This is a guy cutting on Grandma's property. Note how windy it is, how much attention he is paying to what the tree is doing, and how he skedaddles out of the danger zone. He is cutting our native Red Alder, which is a soft, hardwood and notorious for barberchairing. 

[video=youtube_share;LbtX3syK8vY]http://youtu.be/LbtX3syK8vY[/video]


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## jpsheb (Feb 16, 2012)

slowp said:


> You insult grandmas. My friend who is a grandma, probably uses her saw more than many on this forum, and she has not had a chainsaw or cutting accident. Never. Yes, she wears PPE all the time she is cutting. She runs a 360 with 28 inch bar, except it is not running right now so she has borrowed her husband's 440.
> She is also recovering from knee surgery.
> 
> Don't be bashing grandmas.



Who's bashing grandmas? I was careful to say *sit-com* grandmas so as to not step on any sensitive (& non-steel-protected) toes. Theyre fictional:smile2:

I know too many *real* grandmas who do things like clear land and run horse farms to do otherwise.


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## lone wolf (Feb 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The best deal I've found on the Kask Super Plasma is $115.95. The clear shield is $49.95. I've emailed to see if there would be a discount for 10 or more. I've also contacted Grande Dog to see if he can get them.



Save your money on the shield it is short and wont Keep the sawdust out is goes right under and in.Ain't worth 1/2 the price of the helmet no way.Remember I have one!


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## Eric106 (Feb 16, 2012)

Philbert said:


> Wonder if they have mesh visors - plastic scratched.
> 
> Philbert



The Peltor mesh visors are only ten bucks here at TreeStuff.com. You can order the whole kit for $45 or just the visor for $10 which mounts to any of the Peltor ear muffs available one page up.

If you don't want to use the Peltor muffs you can modify the visor to work directly on the helmet. From someone else...


> The Peltor mesh shield, separated from all of the visor sealer stuff that comes with it, fits into the same attachment holes as the plastic visor by just enlarging the holes in the shield to the proper size. It is a really, tight fitting modification.



Not my photos, originally from here.

-Eric















View attachment 224243

View attachment 224244

View attachment 224245


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## Eric106 (Feb 16, 2012)

Alternatively you can use both the plastic visor and the mesh screen together.

Again, not my photos, originally from here.

-Eric


















View attachment 224246

View attachment 224247

View attachment 224248


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## blsnelling (Feb 16, 2012)

We can get a 7% discount if we do a bulk order from Tree Stuff. Just yesterday, they already dropped the regular price to $115.95. The bulk price would be $107.83. But for a bulk order, I think they'd all have to be shipped to me. Then we'd have the added cost and time for me to ship them out. I've not done a bulk order so don't know if they can be shipped to different addressee or not. I'm not sure is worth the hassles for us or then to go bulk.


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## jpsheb (Feb 16, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> Widowmakers are spooky! Glad you're alright, Brad.



They certainly are. 

While it's good to have footage for "incident investigations" or post-mortems or whatever, I cannot help but notice that the camera operators are often distracted by the camera itself. NOw days, tiny cameras are cheap enough that there is a good availability of helmet-cams which are starting to get some use in the firefighting world. When you wear it you dont think about it. but when something bad happens, it makes it all that much easier to learn from our (or others') mistakes. 

Metal Firefighter Camera Helmet Cam (Fire Proof) - FC3 - Helmet Camera & Helmet Cam Shop - StuntCams

By comparison, these are the same size and cost as the side-lighter helmet lights that alot of firefighters use. they are attached to fire helmets by one of these bands. 
Streamlight Deluxe Rubber Helmet Strap

Would be real easy to put on a logging helmet. And if they stand up as firefighting gear (heat, impacts, water, etc.), you know they will do ok in a logging environment.


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## Eric106 (Feb 16, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> Save your money on the shield it is short and wont Keep the sawdust out is goes right under and in.Ain't worth 1/2 the price of the helmet no way.Remember I have one!



Thanks for the feedback. I'm on the fence about the plastic visor. If it wasn't half the price of the helmet, like you said, I would be more willing to give it a try. I'm not a pro or even full time firewood cutter so I would probably use the helmet for other applications as well where it might be useful. So I'm still not sure.

-Eric


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## lone wolf (Feb 16, 2012)

Eric106 said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I'm on the fence about the plastic visor. If it wasn't half the price of the helmet, like you said, I would be more willing to give it a try. I'm not a pro or even full time firewood cutter so I would probably use the helmet for other applications as well where it might be useful. So I'm still not sure.
> 
> -Eric



All that stuff sounds good till you get it then everything is a hassle and gets in the way actually!I would like to just wear the Helmet and ear plugs but when chipping its too loud so I put the biggest peltor muffs on my helmet and tossed the stock ones.safety glasses are good.


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## edisto (Feb 16, 2012)

jpsheb said:


> The comment in quotes sounds like the type of thing you might expect from a sit-com grandma...not an experienced chainsawyer.



I'll have to take your word word for what a sit-com grandma says...and assume too much time in an armchair might explain your interpretation of what I said.

The point, once again, is this. The mistakes that were made were glaring, and numerous. Anyone with experience would recognize that. I think we have an obligation to describe those mistakes, and the alternatives. I laid out my view a few pages back, but the real issues seem to get lost amongst the shiny hats. 

PPE is important, but it is more important to minimize the opportunities you have to test it out.

When I taught firearm safety, the first thing I did was show them where the safety was, but I spent the rest of the time trying to make sure they never would have to rely on it.


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## blsnelling (Feb 16, 2012)

Edisto, I wasn't even going to give you the pleasure of a reply, but here it is. Obviously, mistakes were made. I made that very clear up front. I know what those mistakes where and pointed them out.

You're here for one reason and one reason only. You don't like me and are simply looking for trouble. Twenty some pages and you've got to be the one to take this thread down the toilet! *Go away, you're not welcome here!* We'll talk about PPE when we feel like it. Thank you very much!


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## jpsheb (Feb 16, 2012)

edisto said:


> I'll have to take your word word for what a sit-com grandma says...and assume too much time in an armchair might explain your interpretation of what I said.
> 
> The point, once again, is this. The mistakes that were made were glaring, and numerous. Anyone with experience would recognize that. I think we have an obligation to describe those mistakes, and the alternatives. I laid out my view a few pages back, but the real issues seem to get lost amongst the shiny hats.
> 
> ...




Man, talking about flogging a dead horse!

We all heard you the first time you posted on this thread, professor. I was trying to subtly indicate that in my initial response to you. Unfortunately, my clumsy attempt at subtlety was lost on you & my response only seem to have made you more strident...like a big pink incredible hulk who, instead of rage, expresses uncontrollable petulance. 

So, to be more blunt, while it might be hard someone in your position to understand, repeating the same point over and over only gets you ignored. It's really kind of disappointing, as one would reallly expect a professor who (hopefully) has a Ph.D. to have more to say. If you really wan't to lecture people, why not just add another course to your teaching load? 

Now, for your convenience, I'll put you on ignore so you don't feel like you are obliged to retort. 

This will probably fall on deaf ears, but either way, best of luck to you:smile2:


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## edisto (Feb 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Edisto, I wasn't even going to give you the pleasure of a reply, but here it is. Obviously, mistakes were made. I made that very clear up front. I know what those mistakes where and pointed them out.



I read the mistakes you cited, and reviewed the video very carefully. Then I offered my view of what _additional_ mistakes I saw, and offered my suggestion of how I would deal with a similar situation. 



blsnelling said:


> You're here for one reason and one reason only. You don't like me and are simply looking for trouble. Twenty some pages and you've got to be the one to take this thread down the toilet! *Go away, you're not welcome here!*



I posted a second time in the spirit of what the intent of the thread was stated to be. I don't waste energy disliking you, except when you post crap like this. I get over it pretty quickly though.

I understand that your ego is probably as bruised as the rest of you, but as you indicated in the first post, there are lessons to be learned. I just brought up ones that I thought were missed. I don't see how a candid discussion of the issues that led to your accident takes the thread down the toilet, but I also don't have a persecution complex.



blsnelling said:


> We'll talk about PPE when we feel like it. Thank you very much!



I'm just not sure I can make this any clearer...I don't object to talking about PPE. I just want to make sure that the causal issues are addressed so that others won't make the same mistakes.

I've said my piece, and hope that someone got something useful out of it.


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## Brian13 (Feb 16, 2012)

I am kind of with Edisto on this one Brad. While PPE is important, you still would have been hurt badly even with the helmet. Im not saying to point out what you did wrong to say you suck, not by any means. I know my own mistakes have almost got me nailed into the ground. I havnt been following this thread post by post, but it seems like it is mostly geared towards PPE and not why what happened happened. You were generous enough to share this with us, and I think discussing what happened, what went wrong, and why would be more beneficial. Either way Brad thanks for sharing.


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## lone wolf (Feb 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Edisto, I wasn't even going to give you the pleasure of a reply, but here it is. Obviously, mistakes were made. I made that very clear up front. I know what those mistakes where and pointed them out.
> 
> You're here for one reason and one reason only. You don't like me and are simply looking for trouble. Twenty some pages and you've got to be the one to take this thread down the toilet! *Go away, you're not welcome here!* We'll talk about PPE when we feel like it. Thank you very much!



I second that I don't like him either !!!!!'Go away no it all self proclaimed Genius!What about it you never got hurt if true then you never worked!


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## blsnelling (Feb 16, 2012)

The focus of this thread is certainly not PPE. The best protection is knowledge and awareness, and there by avoidance of accidents. Read the thread and I don't think you'll see anything that says any differently. PPE is only being discussed now because I want to buy a new helmet. It's the prudent thing to do, along with the lessons learned and/or reinforced from the accident.


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## 2dogs (Feb 16, 2012)

Del_ said:


> It fell on deaf ears here.



Same here.

This has turned out like many firearms related discussions have when they take place after a very visible crime. The left wing jumps in and says we need more and stronger gun controls. The right wing says everyone should be armed all the time everywhere. Somewhere in between are the folks like Edisto who claim that we need common sense laws that control criminals while not punishing law abiding citizens. 

Brad is lucky to be alive and he knows it. We are all happy that he is. Now he wants to add some safety equipment to his gear cache. Good for him. (For what it's worth I don't think a climbing helmet is the way to go but that is Brad's choice.) What got Brad into trouble was bad judgement, and he knows that too. PPE won't help that out one little bit but it won't hurt as long as he learns the big lesson that each and every tree needs to be looked at as a special tree that might have his name on it. Like they say, sometimes you just need a knock upside the head to make you start thinking differently. I've had mine and now Brad has had his.


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## blsnelling (Feb 16, 2012)

Del_ said:


> I haven't been reading the whole thread so if it's been pointed out, sorry.
> 
> The tree that the falling tree hit which broke the limb on the falling tree that caused the injury......had a huge limb hanging right over the stump and was swinging violently. Had it broken, and I'm surprised it did not.....


Yes sir, you better believer I saw that! I wouldn't have walked away from either that stick, or the top that came out of it.


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## andydodgegeek (Feb 16, 2012)

He knows he did wrong, and he said it. I wasnt there and videos dont do anything justice. Would I have made the same mistake? I dont know. The deed is done now he has learned from it. I dont think his thinking about getting/using ppe should not be discussed here. I dont know Brad personally but have read several of his posts in the past and he seems to be a knowledgeable and helpfull fellow. I dont think there needs to be any sarcastic remarks or any thing bad to be said about him. I will say that I bought a used chainsaw from him and it is great. Be smart, be safe.


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## jpsheb (Feb 16, 2012)

2dogs said:


> Same here.
> 
> This has turned out like many firearms related discussions have when they take place after a very visible crime. The left wing jumps in and says we need more and stronger gun controls. The right wing says everyone should be armed all the time everywhere. Somewhere in between are the folks like Edisto who claim that we need common sense laws that control criminals while not punishing law abiding citizens.
> 
> Brad is lucky to be alive and he knows it. We are all happy that he is. Now he wants to add some safety equipment to his gear cache. Good for him. (For what it's worth I don't think a climbing helmet is the way to go but that is Brad's choice.) What got Brad into trouble was bad judgement, and he knows that too. PPE won't help that out one little bit but it won't hurt as long as he learns the big lesson that each and every tree needs to be looked at as a special tree that might have his name on it. Like they say, sometimes you just need a knock upside the head to make you start thinking differently. I've had mine and now Brad has had his.




Dude, I think you just might be projecting a little bit. This is not a firearms issue. This is not a liberal vs. conservative political issue. This is a whineyness & bad assumption issue...one of assuming no one else could be possibly be so enlightened as you and must be spending their days worrying about PPE but otherwise running around under widowmakers, improperly felling trees at night while drunk, and must therefore, because they are worrying about about PPE, be ignorant of all other things and that you must wade into the fray to set the poor misquided souls straight. 

Or.... Perhaps this is simply a disscussion arising from a near miss--the kind many of us have from time to time--that has involved both methods (see my first post in this thread) as well as PPE that might have resulted in less bruising arising from the type mistake that can get any of us, no matter how careful we are most of the time. 

No one argues that practice habits are not important as well, I think it just goes with saying for many of us. But it seems that when these issues come up, as sure as Old Faithful erupts forth its geyser, *certain* firearms instructor types (not all...most are pretty sharp fellows) come out of the woodwork to create a liberal straw-bogeyman and then paint those that are for PPE as unmanly since they themselves did it different in firearms school or when they taught. This is not guns and the world is not a firing range. 

I have worked in many environments where safety, both practice & precautions are paramount, from industrial sites to labs to ballistic test facilities to boomers to tactical training ranges. I've had plenty of gun training, tactical and basic, for offensive and defensive use, in places like Pensacola & Moyock. And while there are folks like Ed Brown & Mossad Ayoob who've forgotten more than I'll ever know, I'd venture to say that practice is more important in firearms than PPE. It's kind of silly to project this on political viewpoints, since it can easily be turned around the other way (e.g. conservative precautions-oriented practitioners vs. armchair liberal academics). Or maybe it's just that the those who can, do, those who can't...well they go pulling out their stories about what they did when teaching one thing or another unlrelated to the topic of discussion. 

If I was in a place where arms were my tool, I'd wear a kevlar helmet and body armor. Or in a place where there are flames, then nomex and a fire helmet, And if someone came out to point out the obvious--that good habits of not-getting-shot or avoiding being burned were the most important things, and that I need to stop worrying about having the best protective gear, then I would think them unusually obtuse, since for most of us, those things are kind of obvious. 

If you think the safest things to do is to avoid dangerous situations where you might be imperfect in your actions, then you're right...that would be safest. Otherwise, if you're willing put on your metaphorical big-boy hat and undertake sometimes dangerous tasks and duties, then there's nothing wrong with trying to pick the absolutely best big-boy hat for you to do the job in. In some cases, that "hat" might be climbing gear, in other cases, body armor. In this case, the "hat" we are discussing is actually a hat. Well, a chainsaw helmet to be exact.


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## 2dogs (Feb 16, 2012)

jpsheb said:


> Dude, I think you just might be projecting a little bit. This is not a firearms issue. This is not a liberal vs. conservative political issue. This is a whineyness & bad assumption issue...one of assuming no one else could be possibly be so enlightened as you and must be spending their days worrying about PPE but otherwise running around under widowmakers, improperly felling trees at night while drunk issue and must therefore, because they are worrying about about PPE, be ignorant of all other things and that you must therefore wade into the fray and set them straight. Perhaps this is simply a disscussion arising from a near miss--the kind many of us have from time to time--that has involved both methods (see my first post in this thread) as well as PPE that might have resulted in less bruising arising from the type mistake that can get any of us, no matter how careful we are most of the time.
> 
> No one argues that practice habits are important as well, but it seems that when these issues come up, as sure as Old Faithful erupts forth its geyser, the firearms instructor types come out of the woodwork to create a liberal straw bogeyman and then paint those that are for PPE as unmanly since they did it different in firearms school. Again, this is not guns and the world is not a firing range.
> 
> ...



If anyone is interested in jpsheb's viewpoints then pop in at the Forestry & Logging Forum where you can read for yourself asking for advice and the arguing against everyone who posted a responce. jpsheb has now joined my ignore list though I doubt he will be here for very long. To the rest of you who understand the abstract I hope you read my last post. jpsheb I'm sorry you didn't get it.


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## archeo (Feb 16, 2012)

2dogs said:


> If anyone is interested in jpsheb's viewpoints then pop in at the Forestry & Logging Forum where you can read for yourself asking for advice and the arguing against everyone who posted a responce. jpsheb has now joined my ignore list though I doubt he will be here for very long. To the rest of you who understand the abstract I hope you read my last post. jpsheb I'm sorry you didn't get it.



Welll, I guess I don't get it either. Maybe you can ignore me too? Whatever.

I've been watching this thread & and there alot of really good ideas, but with people like you on the site, I don't know about jpsheb, but I'm not too sure *I* want to be on here much longer.


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## turtle561 (Feb 16, 2012)

great movie, good advice :

[video=youtube;Y28pFJqDkkU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y28pFJqDkkU&feature=related[/video]

another one: What We've Got Here is Failure to Communicate - YouTube


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## jpsheb (Feb 16, 2012)

archeo said:


> Welll, I guess I don't get it either. Maybe you can ignore me too? Whatever.
> 
> I've been watching this thread & and there alot of really good ideas, but with people like you on the site, I don't know about jpsheb, but I'm not too sure *I* want to be on here much longer.



Brad, kudos on a fruitful topic! When it generates this many "likes" and even a bunch of "ignore", it's must have stirred the pot.


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## mtfallsmikey (Feb 16, 2012)

I felt it was unnecessary to chastise Brad, he knew what he did wrong, and at some point in time doing some task, we all fall short in either PPE/safety. I just finished changing out a breaker in a 480v panel, while it was hot. I had all the right PPE on, but one stupid move, and it's all over. Almost as nerve racking as dropping trees.


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## brncreeper (Feb 16, 2012)

I've changed many 480 volt 3 phase motor starter buckets "live", no big deal.


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## avalancher (Feb 16, 2012)

Del_ said:


> WTF?
> 
> Put a sock in it.



I have to agree with Del here.Its time to put a sock in it. In all honesty, I really cant understand why anyone has taken the time or energy to knock Brad on any of this. He made some mistakes,sure. But we all have, at least I have in my time.I have been in a hurry, left out some PPE, or forgot it in the other truck and made the decision to continue work anyway. But really.Is there any further need to bash anyone over this?

After all, the title of this thread is "Guys, don't get complacent out there!!!", and there is little doubt in my mind that Brad meant the best in all this. He pointed out his mistakes for the entire world to see, gave us all a friendly reminder that something like this could happen to any one of us, and that should be the end of it.

Its kinda disappointing to see the bashing going on around here. Its hardly necessary. If you want to bash someone, run over to Spacemule's thread, "I got more cash than I know what to do with, help me be even more of an idiot by contributing to a worthless thread."

Oops. Guess I just bashed Spacemule. But unlike Brad, he deserves a good bashing once in awhile.


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## jpsheb (Feb 16, 2012)

2dogs said:


> If anyone is interested in jpsheb's viewpoints then pop in at the Forestry & Logging Forum where you can read for yourself asking for advice and the arguing against everyone who posted a responce. jpsheb has now joined my ignore list though I doubt he will be here for very long. To the rest of you who understand the abstract I hope you read my last post. jpsheb I'm sorry you didn't get it.





Del_ said:


> WTF?
> 
> Put a sock in it.



Take your own advice Del. You If don't like a thread, move on. I've watched your posts since joining this site last May and youve never had anything useful to add. But you post anyway. Never seen someone with so little to say make so many posts. Should have put you on the ignore list earlier. 

You know, I read this site for quite a while (6-months or so) before I really started posting much and it was always frustrating to see what would start out as a really interesting thread, but would ultimately be hijacked by some poster who chime in with nothing to add but has to criticize and then a bunch of fools that chime in echoing it. And that's it...the thread's down the toilet. 

This started out as a very good, useful thread--why do these threads like this end up devolving to the point where some posters have nothing to add but feel like they need to chime in anyway. Don't you people have real work to do? Well, I've said too much already. I guess I have to admire how some of you, like the OP, manage to ignore the BS & move on. 

Maybe we should get back on topic. I thought the OP had already addressed how he would *do* things differently & moved on to PPE (helmets). Beyond that, in terms of PPE, this does seem like a good case study for head gear. . Since fortunately the only real helmet-testing experience I have is having a face-shield broken, all I can say is that I see the value in a durable face shield. As I am (like many others on this site) in the market, I'd really like to hear what the Brad eventually chooses to get. 

It seems that buying one's first PPE is done with hesitation, but buying *replacement* PPE with gladness!


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## John Ellison (Feb 16, 2012)

Have'nt posted in awhile, been busy. Was skimming over new posts and saw this. Thumbs up Brad for putting this out there. Most of us will stick up pics of our glorious escapades, but would not have the balls to show this.

Learning to fall timber is about like going thru your teenage years, you have to be at least a little lucky just to survive.

Don't know about this tree, but even with experience some trees are hard to figure the lean and they have to be cut with that in mind.
Ouch, Hope you're alright.


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## joatmon (Feb 16, 2012)

*Glad you're OK Brad, Heal Quickly, Godspeed*

The air was cool and the sky was gray,
I’ll grab the Husky and go out to play,
Angel of Death, go away,
Don’t make this my last day,

The tree was large and it had a twist,
My holding wood was sorely missed,
Angel of Death, softly kissed,
Put His hand upon my wrist,

I’ll get my wedges to control the fall,
I’ll be damned I’d better save my saw,
Angel of Death hit my jaw,
Can’t suspend Nature’s law,

My friends take a lesson from what I say,
If you become complacent you may pay,
Angel of Death, go away,
Thanks for giving me this day.

~joat


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## blsnelling (Feb 16, 2012)

Joat, thanks for that! I chuckled as soon as I saw you had written a poem. Then you nearly had me in tears, lol. They do say a concussion can make you emotional


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## nick 55 (Feb 16, 2012)

jpsheb said:


> It seems that buying one's first PPE is done with hesitation, but buying *replacement* PPE with gladness!



Is this the thread for discussing PPE? Yes. This is Brad's thread and we should be glad he was able to read about his experience instead of seeing it in the Injuries and Fatalities forum. He knows he made mistakes, and learned from them. One of those mistakes was not wearing PPE. He is taking the steps to fix that mistake. I agree with those that want to keep this thread on track and minimize the lumps he has to take because he already learned his lesson

I was a little hesitant buying the PPE for woodcutting because of the price(simply because my wife is an accountant and therefore analyzes everything) but I eventually came to the mindset that spending $200 on safety gear is cheaper than the trip to the ER(which you may still need, but hopefully not bleeding as profusely). I remember buying my first Oakley safety glasses, my wife and my coworkers thought I was crazy, but in the end, they were comfortable so I wear them all the time and don't get irritated by them and take them off.

Nick


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## pgg (Feb 16, 2012)

clear plastic visors are a waste of space, they get scratched quick-smart, sap and sticky debris splatters them, they're a hassle plain and simple, they turn into a hazy blurry mess no matter how "careful" you go, they're not suitable for chainsaw use out in the bush at all, wearing clear plastic visors in the bush is tyro stuff, they're the type of thing that's only any use for Joe Backyard spending a few minutes per year trimming pea-sticks in town. Don't fekk around with gimmicks, the proper visor setup is the proven no-nonsense flip-up steel-mesh type


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## joatmon (Feb 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Joat, thanks for that! I chuckled as soon as I saw you had written a poem. Then you nearly had me in tears, lol. They do say a concussion can make you emotional



Brad,

You're welcome. Your family and friends would miss you, so take that extra time, OK? Next time, get Nik to push the tree over.

Take care,

joat


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## Gologit (Feb 16, 2012)

jpsheb said:


> Take your own advice Del. You If don't like a thread, move on. I've watched your posts since joining this site last May and youve never had anything useful to add. But you post anyway. Never seen someone with so little to say make so many posts. Should have put you on the ignore list earlier.
> 
> You know, I read this site for quite a while (6-months or so) before I really started posting much and it was always frustrating to see what would start out as a really interesting thread, but would ultimately be hijacked by some poster who chime in with nothing to add but has to criticize and then a bunch of fools that chime in echoing it. And that's it...the thread's down the toilet.
> 
> This started out as a very good, useful thread--why do these threads like this end up devolving to the point where some posters have nothing to add but feel like they need to chime in anyway. Don't you people have real work to do? Well, I've said too much already. I guess I have to admire how some of you, like the OP, manage to ignore the BS & move on.



We're sorry that we've upset your orderly little world. I'm sure we'll all try to do better in the future so that we won't upset you. 

Or, then again, maybe we won't. Either way I'm sure you'll deal with it....you pretentious little snob.


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## wampum (Feb 16, 2012)

Archeo and jpsheb are both the same person,at least they are posting from the same computer. Using Multiple ID's like this is not allowed,having a conversation with yourself,Well I will let you all decide if that is wacky or not.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Feb 16, 2012)

wampum said:


> Archeo and jpsheb are both the same person,at least they are posting from the same computer. Using Multiple ID's like this is not allowed,having a conversation with yourself,Well I will let you all decide if that is wacky or not.



Looks like a husband and wife. Check out their profiles.


----------



## 2dogs (Feb 16, 2012)

wampum said:


> Archeo and jpsheb are both the same person,at least they are posting from the same computer. Using Multiple ID's like this is not allowed,having a conversation with yourself,Well I will let you all decide if that is wacky or not.



Wow. That's a new one on me. I put both, er him/her, on my ignore list today. That's just wierd.


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## brncreeper (Feb 16, 2012)

That's why I never believe a single AS pole. The lopsided ones are probably the same idiot voting over and over.


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## Philbert (Feb 16, 2012)

*And back to Brad . . .*

So, after the stitches get pulled, are you gonna have the rest of the logo tattooed on your scalp?

Philbert


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 16, 2012)

I just let Anna, my 13 year old daughter, remove the four staples. She thought it was fun


----------



## showrguy (Feb 16, 2012)

joatmon said:


> The air was cool and the sky was gray,
> I’ll grab the Husky and go out to play,
> Angel of Death, go away,
> Don’t make this my last day,
> ...



wow joat,
that's pretty cool you wrote something like that !!

i know you guys have had some "go rounds" in the past (the missing 066 fins thing comes to mind) , but since then the mission backback build and such, really seems like you all came together ??
i just think it's really kinda cool in some sorta strange way ........

i hope i aint soundin like a jerk !!!!


----------



## sbow388 (Feb 16, 2012)

On page 1, I saw a reply to the first post "it's not possible to misread the lean of the tree that bad" said a member( or it was something like that) Who does that? So inconsiderate and the person who made that rude comment should be praising that the person that this incident happened to is ok and not bashing them pointing out mistakes that he didn't state

by the way nailing im glad to see you ok! thanks for telling us im scared to fall trees by myself now!


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## jropo (Feb 17, 2012)

Well Brad, how are you doing?

Just an idea, all of this started w/ the concern of your saw that you JUST finished a long and extencieve build on, being left at the stump to fend for its self, and I can totally understand this since I have left my 2yr. old store bought 385 at the stump before myself and its not fun.
Every faller around my parts that I've ran into uses a saw that looks like something that my cat hacked up.
Big ugly unported saws that start, cut, and fell trees. That way you don't have to worry about someone walking off w/ it, if you have a tree that goes bad, **** the saw!, get out of there, if it lives keep cutting, if not, well now time for some duct tape and few parts, or you just got a new project saw to build.

Once the tree is safely on the ground, break out the latest Snellerized Hot Rod and do your thing.

This is why I got the 6401, paid a bill for it.
Even if I get to do what I want to it, ported BB, HD air. I'll have about 6-7 into it total. I paid more than that for my 357.

As far as cutting goes, I'm no pro buy any means, I cut trees to keep the lights on for another month and to keep my family warm.
I have lots to learn, and I learn something from every tree that I cut, that and B.rad S.nellering w/ the Ol' timers that managed to live long enough to make a meager living in the woods.
So I would suggest that you find your local F.O.G. and hold a chair down w/ him and have a cup, and listen what he has to say, if your lucky he might just show ya a few tricks to make sure you make it home for dinner. 

P.s. F.O.G.'s rule!


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## PLMCRZY (Feb 17, 2012)

Seriously?? The majority of people bashing in here are older then me (22), y'all are acting like a bunch of woman. Some of y'alls comments towards the guy would make me slap you. Not punch but slap because y'all are acting all like pms'ing women. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MCW (Feb 17, 2012)

Firstly glad you're OK Brad (sorry for coming in late) and I bet you won't have it happen again. Although I always wear a helmet errors occur and I've cut through the face a number of times, particularly if not concentrating. Instinct is to save your saw without thinking of yourself a lot of the time. How far did the first bar get through the tree Brad? That will indicate just how much weight was backwards (not that it really matters) but I don't think it was leaning back as heavily as suggested below.



spacemule said:


> Line starts in middle of tree. That's a *lot* of lean. How did you misread that brad?



Without seeing the whole tree that lean means nothing. If there is equal or greater weight left of centre outside of the shot then the tree is still weighted to fall away from Brad. I'm not sure what the real facts are or what the tree weighting was but the above diagram means diddley without the top of the tree being in the picture. You can see when the tree falls that although it has a bow in it the weighting along the centreline looks quite even. However the fact it sat on the saw means it probably was weighted backwards but not by much I'd suggest.
I've copped similar comments from some of my pictures and videos but when you're physically there it's quite often the complete opposite to what people perceive. Sometimes it becomes painfully obvious that you just got it all wrong and did a complete misread instead...


----------



## Tzed250 (Feb 17, 2012)

Check it. The tree goes the wrong way from the face cut at 1:48, and no PPE!


The Dog and The Rooster - YouTube


----------



## joatmon (Feb 17, 2012)

showrguy said:


> wow joat,
> that's pretty cool you wrote something like that !!
> 
> i know you guys have had some "go rounds" in the past (the missing 066 fins thing comes to mind) , but since then the mission backback build and such, really seems like you all came together ??
> ...



Thanks, and you're not soundin' like a jerk.

I believe that 90%+ of the "problems" between Brad and me are really between Brad "followers" and Brad "detractors". Brad is what he is. You may be a fan or not. No skin off my back and I'm sure Brad would say the same. I will own up to my part in fanning the flames, but, at the end of the day, bitterness and hatred have no place here. I'll not venture there again.

We all have worth as humans and we all fall short as humans. Pointing out that another human fails to meet our values, expectations or standards serves no purpose on this or any other internet site.

My advice? If you have a problem with someone, either let it go or have a one-on-one discussion with the goal of being constructive.

Peace and Grace,

joat


----------



## sachsmo (Feb 17, 2012)

Aw crap Joat,

You sure are gettin' soft. This place needs a few peeing matches to keep everyone honest.

How many boring what should I buy threads do we need?

I will agree, we all fall way short of perfection, but it sure is fun gunning for those who think they are already there eh?

After all this is a Manly chainsaw site, not quilting or my bunions hurt Dr. Oz! 

I say "what doesn't kill ya makes ya stronger" (perhaps not smarter though)


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Feb 17, 2012)

brncreeper said:


> I've changed many 480 volt 3 phase motor starter buckets "live", no big deal.



No big deal? I'm sure that as a "qualified individual" to do hot work, you have watched a few arc blast videos? Instant death, or at least super-severe burns/disfigurement.


----------



## sachsmo (Feb 17, 2012)

mtfallsmikey said:


> No big deal? I'm sure that as a "qualified individual" to do hot work, you have watched a few arc blast videos? Instant death, or at least super-severe burns/disfigurement.



Those films on arc blast are all made by the safety equipment industry.

Never seen it in 25+ years in the trades. (did see a 200 amp 480 volt oil heater blow the door off once)

Ever price some of their garments?

It is a risk, but those films are a little slanted to the "worst case"

C'mon, like anyone is going to arc all three conductors with a 2" copper bar.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 17, 2012)

sachsmo said:


> Those films on arc blast are all made by the safety equipment industry.
> 
> Never seen it in 25+ years in the trades. (did see a 200 amp 480 volt oil heater blow the door off once)
> 
> ...



A guy that used to work with me accidentally grounded one leg of a 200A, 480v to the cabinet case. He miraculously was unhurt, but it blowed the main breaker and his Allen wrench to smithereens....


----------



## hardpan (Feb 17, 2012)

This thread has now gone full circle. We are back to complacency.


----------



## joatmon (Feb 17, 2012)

sachsmo said:


> Aw crap Joat,
> 
> You sure are gettin' soft. This place needs a few peeing matches to keep everyone honest.
> 
> ...



Soft you say? I'll tell you it's much harder to do the right thing that the easy thing.

You know, we used to have threads where several would pick, scream, gouge and banter well into the night. But, we all remained friends and viewed it as entertainment. The culture that allowed that has left the site. It slowly seeped away when others would jump in to defend someone who didn't really need defending.

Now, please understand this: I am not making a value judgment as to whether the "old" site was better or worse than the "current" site. I'm just attempting to articulate my understanding of what has changed here.

If someone sees the need to fight, I'm sure there's a saloon in your neighborhood that will serve your fancy.

In summary, I'm adjusting to this place and trying to have a positive presence on this site. If anyone views this as less "manly", then it is their problem to deal with and not a burden I will carry.

Hope that clears this matter,

joat


----------



## sachsmo (Feb 17, 2012)

joatmon said:


> Soft you say? I'll tell you it's much harder to do the right thing that the easy thing.
> 
> You know, we used to have threads where several would pick, scream, gouge and banter well into the night. But, we all remained friends and viewed it as entertainment. The culture that allowed that has left the site. It slowly seeped away when others would jump in to defend someone who didn't really need defending.
> 
> ...




I don't frequent saloons.

All for turning the other cheek and all, 


OK, me shut-up.


----------



## PLMCRZY (Feb 17, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Check it. The tree goes the wrong way from the face cut at 1:48, and no PPE!
> 
> 
> The Dog and The Rooster - YouTube



What are you his father? Go tend to your children. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## edisto (Feb 17, 2012)

MCW said:


> Without seeing the whole tree that lean means nothing. If there is equal or greater weight left of centre outside of the shot then the tree is still weighted to fall away from Brad. I'm not sure what the real facts are or what the tree weighting was but the above diagram means diddley without the top of the tree being in the picture. You can see when the tree falls that although it has a bow in it the weighting along the centreline looks quite even. However the fact it sat on the saw means it probably was weighted backwards but not by much I'd suggest.
> I've copped similar comments from some of my pictures and videos but when you're physically there it's quite often the complete opposite to what people perceive. Sometimes it becomes painfully obvious that you just got it all wrong and did a complete misread instead...



That's a good point. From one perspective, it looked like the direction was obvious, but I don't think anyone here would plan a fall from a single photograph. It's a hindsight issue...it's easy to tell which way the lean is once the tree is falling.

Now that things have settled, I'm going to have another go at what I was trying to do in the first place. If it causes a stink, I hope someone will be able to pick something useful out of the ensuing mess.

I have nothing new to offer, but if there is something here that someone has not heard before, it is worth posting. This is just the way I do things, and I hope someone with more experience will offer some alternatives. There may be a few people on this site that have nothing to learn about falling, but I'm not one of them.

A big problem here was cutting through the holding wood. One way to avoid this is to dog-in where you want the back cut to end (or farther ahead for larger trees, with a "reset" once the first part of the backcut is parallel to the face).

For the sake of discussion, let's assume the lean was known, and this was a fall 90 degrees from that lean. from the description, the diameter of the tree made it necessary to do the backcut in 2 parts. Also from my interpretation (because the holding wood was severed), it seems the first part of the backcut was made on the side away from the lean. The lean was misread, so it wasn't a conscious decision, but the end result brings up a useful point when the lean is recognized. 

In my view, the first part of the backcut should be on the side of the lean, so you have maximum holding against the lean. This should go a long way towards avoiding getting the bar pinched. I would start the second part of the backcut at a dogged in position maybe 45 degrees from being parallel to the face. The idea is to taper the holding wood so that it is thickest opposite the lean to swing the tree towards the face. If the tree doesn't start to go, then continue deepening the back cut so that the holding wood remains tapered.

In some cases, I have experimented with putting a Dutchman on the lean side, which closes as the tree shifts stopping the leanward movement of the tree if there is sufficient holding wood opposite the lean. This is supposed to shift the weight towards the face. My question is, would having a Dutchman in place make it more likely or less likely for the bar to get pinched while making the backcut?

I realize that all of the above is painfully obvious, but I'll gladly risk being obvious on the off chance that someone is not familiar with it.


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## forestryworks (Feb 17, 2012)

edisto said:


> =A big problem here was cutting through the holding wood. One way to avoid this is to dog-in where you want the back cut to end (or farther ahead for larger trees, with a "reset" once the first part of the backcut is parallel to the face).



Gunning sights. Enough said.


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## WoodChuck'r (Feb 17, 2012)

I just finished watching the vid for the first time.


Holy geez Brad. Not giving you any flack but good grief this felling tree stuff can become reality a lot sooner than some of us think. Good wake up call for sure - it's unfortunate that it happened and unfortunate your message to everyone was delivered because of a potentially fatal incident but it's always good to have a reminder. This stuff is fun but extremely unforgiving as well. 


Just glad you're alright.....


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## Johny Utah (Feb 17, 2012)

WoodChuck'r said:


> I just finished watching the vid for the first time.
> 
> 
> Holy geez Brad. Not giving you any flack but good grief this felling tree stuff can become reality a lot sooner than some of us think. Good wake up call for sure - it's unfortunate that it happened and unfortunate your message to everyone was delivered because of a potentially fatal incident but it's always good to have a reminder. This stuff is fun but extremely unforgiving as well.
> ...



I'm an idiot because I just did the same damn thing Brad did yesterday. It was just a small tree that released a widow maker when I dropped it. I didn't look up before I started cutting. Nothing hit me but it was a reminder of what can happen and how fast. Good thing I had my skull cap on just in case. I made the mistake of assuming it's just a small tree what could happen.:bang::bang::bang:


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## mtfallsmikey (Feb 17, 2012)

sachsmo said:


> Those films on arc blast are all made by the safety equipment industry.
> 
> Never seen it in 25+ years in the trades. (did see a 200 amp 480 volt oil heater blow the door off once)
> 
> ...



Take a look at this, see if you thnk it was made by the "safety equipment industry"...This poor dude died.



Arc Flash While Racking a Breaker - Video


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## slowp (Feb 17, 2012)

PLMCRZY said:


> Seriously?? The majority of people bashing in here are older then me (22), y'all are acting like a bunch of woman. Some of y'alls comments towards the guy would make me slap you. Not punch but slap because y'all are acting all like pms'ing women.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I AM a bunch of woman. By the way, love that purple color.......pastels are very nice, very feminine. But you might have problems getting into the He Man Woman Hater's Club with purple.


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## slowp (Feb 17, 2012)

edisto said:


> That's a good point. From one perspective, it looked like the direction was obvious, but I don't think anyone here would plan a fall from a single photograph. It's a hindsight issue...it's easy to tell which way the lean is once the tree is falling.
> 
> Now that things have settled, I'm going to have another go at what I was trying to do in the first place. If it causes a stink, I hope someone will be able to pick something useful out of the ensuing mess.
> 
> ...



Thank you, I have learned something.


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## madhatte (Feb 17, 2012)

edisto said:


> My question is, would having a Dutchman in place make it more likely or less likely for the bar to get pinched while making the backcut?



Yes, and that's what you want. If it rolls enough to sit on the bar, it'll roll enough to keep going onto the face, freeing the bar. When swinging a tree, pinching the bar on the off side is often your first clue that the top is moving. Then it sits forward, the wedge tips, and the face begins to close. There's a vid in the F&L forum of me doing exactly that.


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## edisto (Feb 17, 2012)

madhatte said:


> Yes, and that's what you want. If it rolls enough to sit on the bar, it'll roll enough to keep going onto the face, freeing the bar. When swinging a tree, pinching the bar on the off side is often your first clue that the top is moving. Then it sits forward, the wedge tips, and the face begins to close. There's a vid in the F&L forum of me doing exactly that.



NOW we're cooking with gas. Thanks Madhatte!

Won't let me rep you though...guess I have to spread it around.


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## madhatte (Feb 17, 2012)

Don't thank me -- thank the far better fallers than myself on this board that I learned from! 

(as an aside, it occurs to me that this may be a new form of "apprenticeship", where folks remotely train each other via interwebs. It's less formal, and there's certainly less accountability, but when it works, it works.)


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## tjbier (Feb 17, 2012)

Wow Brad, glad your ok after that! I bet your had a worse feeling about the whole thing after watching the video of what happened. Scary .

good reminder for all, thanks for sharing .


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## PLMCRZY (Feb 17, 2012)

slowp said:


> I AM a bunch of woman. By the way, love that purple color.......pastels are very nice, very feminine. But you might have problems getting into the He Man Woman Hater's Club with purple.


Not trying to get into a club. Trying to make these girls stop whining. Maybe you could be there role model?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gologit (Feb 17, 2012)

PLMCRZY said:


> Not trying to get into a club. Trying to make these girls stop whining. Maybe you could be there role model?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Girls?


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## edisto (Feb 17, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Girls?



Careful...he already said he was going to slap someone...


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## RandyMac (Feb 17, 2012)

edisto said:


> Careful...he already said he was going to slap someone...



slapping is what girls do.


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## edisto (Feb 17, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> slapping is what girls do.



I don't believe you...










...got pictures?


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## Gologit (Feb 17, 2012)

edisto said:


> Careful...he already said he was going to slap someone...



With his purple purse no doubt.


Back on topic...How are you healing up, Brad? I've seen guys hurt worse just falling down on a payday Friday night but that doesn't mean it's any fun.


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## Typhoon (Feb 17, 2012)

Brad, I am glad you are here today to share this with us. I think all of us guys, regardless of who we are, feel a little too powerful sometimes with our saws and sometimes lose perspective. Brad probably remembers that about 2 years ago, I sent him a brand new 357xp that had been crushed. I had only ran about 10 tanks through her, and a situation not too different from what happened in this video, happened to me. I was tired, it was the end of the day, I was working on a slope, and got in a little bit of a hurry to dump a rock maple that I needed to get to the mill. Long story short, I misread the lean and she sat back on my bar. Started driving wedges, tree started falling in slow-motion. I had time to grab my saw, but opted to bail instead because of the slope.. was afraid I might trip and fall. It's a good thing I did.. because the top took out another top and a widowmaker landed almost exactly where I would have been if I would have retrieved my saw. Saw ended up crushed... no biggie. Brad fixed that saw and I got a new saw. Speaking for myself, I appreciate very much that you posted this vid Brad. Sometimes I find myself doing a quick limbing job or just bucking a "log or two" and don't want to to put on the helmet because maybe I left it 100 ft. away. Never again! I will walk the 100 ft. I didn't realize how complacent I can sometimes be until I watched this. And I don't know if I have ever seen such a ''close call''. Another thing that can be taken from this vid is... even though Brad was not wearing proper ppe, and maybe misjudged the tree a little, Brad is experienced, and knows what he is doing. The guy eats, sleeps, and breathes saws. In comparison, guys go out in the woods all the time with ZERO experience and attempt this kind of work. Sometimes they don't walk back out. Hats off to you Brad... chances are good that by posting this, you have helped many many guys be more safe. Get well soon friend!


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## Tzed250 (Feb 17, 2012)

PLMCRZY said:


> What are you his father? Go tend to your children.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You sure don't need any help looking like a fool do you?

You see, me and Brad go way back. Both good and not so good. From long before you were a member here. Notice how he liked the post you quoted?

The post was a poke in the ribs for someone that came way to close. Injected humor, a stress reliever. I am truly thankful that Brads' wife and daughter still have him coming home to them. 

BTW, purple is regarded as the signature color of sexual frustration. That being the case, go help yourself. 


.


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## PLMCRZY (Feb 18, 2012)

Gologit said:


> With his purple purse no doubt.
> 
> 
> Back on topic...How are you healing up, Brad? I've seen guys hurt worse just falling down on a payday Friday night but that doesn't mean it's any fun.



It's a hand bag thank you 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PLMCRZY (Feb 18, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> You sure don't need any help looking like a fool do you?
> 
> You see, me and Brad go way back. Both good and not so good. From long before you were a member here. Notice how he liked the post you quoted?
> 
> ...



I guess that's what I get for sticking up for Such a swine....

I apologize


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## K7NUT (Feb 18, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I know I deserve all of the scolding you guys can give me, but I know the mistakes I made.



I'm not going to say a word Brad, It could happen to anyone.

On a lite note, anyone ever contact you about being a "double" for My Name is Earl?

Thanks for sharing and good to remember.


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## forestryworks (Feb 18, 2012)

PLMCRZY said:


> It's a hand bag thank you



:hmm3grin2orange:

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iuygRWVwuUI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## Anthony_Va. (Feb 18, 2012)

K7NUT said:


> I'm not going to say a word Brad, It could happen to anyone.
> 
> On a lite note, anyone ever contact you about being a "double" for My Name is Earl?:laugh:
> 
> Thanks for sharing and good to remember.



LMAO. I can see the resemblance.


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## blsnelling (Feb 18, 2012)

Here's what really happened to me


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## stubnail67 (Feb 18, 2012)

*wow how did i miss this?*

glad your alive and well Brad!!!! #### happens keep on cutting!


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## K7NUT (Feb 18, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Here's what really happened to me



*I knew it!*
Your a star and been hold'n out on us!:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## sachsmo (Feb 18, 2012)

You guys need to quit insulting Earl.


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## Danger Dan (Feb 18, 2012)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Falling trees in amongst others is always a very risky business, even in the direction it was intended. A good pool player will look ahead. Same with falling trees in amongst others. Look well further than the tree you are falling at all the possibilities for danger.




Yep, safety first! Can't help but cringe when reading about GTG's that are held on wood lots where a bunch of rookies are all running around falling trees. Building and running saws is fun, but we need to step back and look at the big picture...That was a wakeup call!


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## blsnelling (Feb 18, 2012)

sachsmo said:


> You guys need to quit insulting Earl.



Hey, I resemble that remark!


----------



## jimdad07 (Feb 18, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Hey, I resemble that remark!



I never caught that before, but dang, you do bear a little resemblance.


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## blsnelling (Feb 18, 2012)

He needs a hair cut and mustache trimming


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## jimdad07 (Feb 18, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> He needs a hair cut and mustache trimming



He could be your half hippie brother?


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## wsg (Feb 18, 2012)

Brad, been busy a few days and this thread is still blowing up. Wondered if you'd decided on helmet?


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## rwoods (Feb 18, 2012)

Brad, I don't know you but I thought of you today. I spend the morning at our community firewood ministry's woodlot cutting and splitting firewood. After lunch I went to check on some dying trees, including a 30" red oak that I have been looking forward to falling. I had with me all my firewood PPE - in other words everything but a hard hat. I surveyed the situation and found the oak to be dead. It was one of those nice trees that you could fall in almost any direction you wanted, assuming you know what you are doing. But I didn't have my hat. Boy, was it tempting - and what the heck, I've cut much more dangerous trees. Then I thought of you. So I took another survey and walked around the tree again. Thought about the situation some more. I decided, hat or no hat, the overhead hazards posed by the tree were too dangerous (top had been dead way too long). I drove back to the woodlot and I hired a tree service to put the tree on the ground next week along with a similar size dead pine even though this is likely going to cost me as much as a new saw. Nonetheless, it actually felt good to allow myself to grow up a little by placing a check this time on my pride and unnecessary risk taking.

Thanks again for posting. Ron


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## blsnelling (Feb 18, 2012)

wsg said:


> Brad, been busy a few days and this thread is still blowing up. Wondered if you'd decided on helmet?



It'll probably be a Kask Super Plasma. Just waiting for the CAD fund to recouperate from the other purchases this week


----------



## RandyMac (Feb 18, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Hey, I resemble that remark!



does that mean you are also well meaning but incompetent?


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 18, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> It'll probably be a Kask Super Plasma. Just waiting for the CAD fund to recouperate from the other purchases this week



So what did you get this week. CAD is costly.


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 18, 2012)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> So what did you get this week. CAD is costly.





New bar.:hmm3grin2orange:




Mr. HE


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## blsnelling (Feb 18, 2012)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> So what did you get this week. CAD is costly.



Both of these bars. 32" Tsumara Light and 36" Stihl Light


----------



## joatmon (Feb 18, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> does that mean you are also well meaning but incontinent?



Brad .... ALWAYS put in new seals my man.


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## Gologit (Feb 19, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> It'll probably be a Kask Super Plasma. Just waiting for the CAD fund to recouperate from the other purchases this week



Taking the GOL course?


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## blsnelling (Feb 19, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Taking the GOL course?



I would like that.


----------



## wendell (Feb 19, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I would like that.



Although I'm sure there are many who love to derail this thread again, it would be a good choice.


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## jropo (Feb 19, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Taking the GOL course?



Where are these held?
Eventhough from what I understand, some think that GOL is stupid, there might be some good info that I could use.


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## RandyMac (Feb 19, 2012)

It appears that GOL is good for those who are beginning chainsaw use, they hit safety pretty hard.
However their approach to tree falling is rigid, involves many extra cuts, they believe one size fits all, like an old 'ho's chootch.


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## jropo (Feb 19, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> It appears that GOL is good for those who are beginning chainsaw use, they hit safety pretty hard.
> However their approach to tree falling is rigid, involves many extra cuts, they believe one size fits all, like an old 'ho's chootch.



I just read the thread about this in F/L.
Safety is #1 and could be usefull to some.
I personally not about to bore in and back out every tree, but whatever gets the tree down safely.


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## wendell (Feb 19, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> It appears that GOL is good for those who are beginning chainsaw use, they hit safety pretty hard.
> However their approach to tree falling is rigid, involves many extra cuts, they believe one size fits all, like an old 'ho's chootch.



At the risk of feeling the wrath of the Emperor, he is correct on his first statement and wrong on all the rest. Well, except for an old 'ho's chootch.

I have no idea what that is like.

I'm continually amazed how the biggest experts on GOL have never been to a class but do know every thing they teach because they know a guy whose cousin had a friend who knew a guy who heard a guy talking to another guy at the bar one night.


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## RandyMac (Feb 19, 2012)

Well Wendy. I reviewed 3 hours of DVDs produced by GOL, they were sent to me by one of their strident acolytes. I saw the same style cut used on every single tree, every single time, regardless of the nature of the tree. Oh, and not one of the GOL sawyers looked up at the tree, they were too busy playing with bore cuts and fiddling with too many wedges. Some trunks looked like a sales display for wedges.


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## wendell (Feb 19, 2012)

Well, Randy, I've been to all 4 classes and we rarely bore cut, were taught to be constantly looking up and were taught how to analyze every tree and use the appropriate cut for that tree.

Guess you got some bad video.


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## Gologit (Feb 19, 2012)

wendell said:


> Well, Randy, I've been to all 4 classes and we rarely bore cut, were taught to be constantly looking up and were taught how to analyze every tree and use the appropriate cut for that tree.
> 
> Guess you got some bad video.



Does GOL teach the Humboldt face? Or the Humboldt with a snipe? Or the the box cut face? Or about using jacks? If not, they should.

And, you're right, I've never taken the course. But I had two guys work for me who did. They had all the GOL stuff. I fired them by lunch time. Their GOL training didn't do them any good in a real world timber falling scenario.


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## lone wolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Taking the GOL course?



Hi Vis color?


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## edisto (Feb 19, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Does GOL teach the Humboldt face? Or the Humboldt with a snipe? Or the the box cut face? Or about using jacks? If not, they should.
> 
> And, you're right, I've never taken the course. But I had two guys work for me who did. They had all the GOL stuff. I fired them by lunch time. Their GOL training didn't do them any good in a real world timber falling scenario.



I'm not familiar with it at all, but as long as they don't teach dangerous practices, and focus on safe falling, it would at least be a good beginning. I think your experience with GOL trainees shows that you can't become a real-world timber faller by taking some classes. I would think, however, that progressing towards being a real-world timber faller is more of a possibility if you have fundamentals to build upon.

It's like a golf swing. There's no way to learn it all at once, so you work on developing the basic swing, and add to that for different situations. My dad is a golf fanatic, but I couldn't be bothered to practice the basics, so I'll always suck at it.


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## Longwood (Feb 19, 2012)

Brad, 
This is Kent in Hickory,NC , I sold you a 242xp and a bunch of 242 parts a few years ago.

I am very glad your alright and I think it takes alot of courage to post something that didn't go quite right. I'm sure your posting this experience might save someone else from a similiar accident.


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## jropo (Feb 19, 2012)

http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/130027.htm


This is the GOL discussion thread that I read the other night. While tring to find it, I found some other ones, but
I was wondering if some one knows of a good thread that talks about 3pt. osha Veneer cuts, or "steering" or "swinging" a veneer stick.
Any links would be helpful


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## Metals406 (Feb 19, 2012)

wendell said:


> Well, Randy, I've been to all 4 classes and we rarely bore cut, were taught to be constantly looking up and were taught how to analyze every tree and use the appropriate cut for that tree.
> 
> Guess you got some bad video.



Sounds like the GOL course isn't as standardized as many think, and is regionally different, and also differs by who the instructor(s) are teaching the course.

All the GOL video I see teaches boring and backing out, and no other technique.

I will say one thing, GOL stuff beats the farmer cut by about 5,000%.

I personally believe that GOL does more good than harm for greenhorns and weekend warriors wanting to go out and get some wood.

I also believe that the tools they give you for your tool bags, aren't all the tools one needs to be a proficient timber faller.

I don't think they do GOL here, or I'd consider taking a class, just to see for myself.

But I'll also be honest, and say I will learn more from the Bob O's, Cody T's and Ron R's, than a GOL course could ever hope to teach.


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## jropo (Feb 19, 2012)

I wouldn't dismiss the knowledge of a farmer so quickly.
The farmer that I cut for this week ran a logging co. for years and some farmers log during the winter months for some extra income and for some thing to do. Some of the knowledge they have has been passed down from generation to generation.
Its like GoL, AS, or anything else, take what makes sense or, what you can use, and try it.
I like learning new things, I don't care who it is that is offering info. I'm just greatful that they are.
A "pro" faller showed me how to chase a veneer stick off the stump.
A "farmer" showed me how to cut the heart out through the face.
I learned the fast and dangerious way, then I learned the safe way that will save you and your saw.
One must take my location into consideration, there is not much left here, and we don't grow them as fast as the west coasters.
So there is very few fellas I can talk to on this matter that has worked full time in the woods.


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## slowp (Feb 19, 2012)

Hokay guys, I went to the beginning GOL course. It was two days. The first morning was spent going over saw stuff and safety. I think it might have been modified more to fit our PNW styles and in no way did the instructor ever say we were good to go to work as timber fallers. 

It was geared for beginners. The instructor was from Wisconsin and we teased him endlessly over his pronunciation of Oregon, until he started saying, that company from the state across the river. 

He taught the bore cut. But he discussed and demonstrated a few other cuts and stressed that the bore or poke (as one of the students named it) cut was NOT the only way to go. In fact, I ended up cutting my first tree in more what is the norm out here, except not a humboldt undercut. He did talk about looking up. Mostly prior TO putting the saw in the tree. I think most of us were not yet enough comfy with our saws to look up much whilst cutting. That includes me. I can watch rootwads and stuff whilst bucking, but am not comfy falling. 

The class was good, but I felt it had too many people in it for going out and actually falling trees. A smaller class size would be better. It wasn't cheap. I could have bought a new rototiller or hot tub cover for the cost.

Most of the folks were from the Seattle Parks dept. Several had never even started a saw before, but the scariest guy was not them. I ended up with him as a partner. Thank goodness I'm in the habit of using the chain brake, (I will not elaborate) and that item is stressed. 

Nobody had the bright orange clothes except the instructor. The logger and I were the only ones with the full brim tin hats, and the instructor pointed out that those were expensive, and probably the best protection to have. 

There are advanced classes too. This one was held downriver from Vancouver, USA. They have to find a cooperative landowner who will allow trees to be cut. 

The classes fill up fast. 

I wrote up report on it that is somewhere on the forestry and logging forum. I'll go look.


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## slowp (Feb 19, 2012)

http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/180525-9.htm

Like a lot of threads in that sector, there's a lot of kidding in the thread.

Here's more.

http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/181646.htm


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## Metals406 (Feb 19, 2012)

jropo said:


> I wouldn't dismiss the knowledge of a farmer so quickly.
> The farmer that I cut for this week ran a logging co. for years and some farmers log during the winter months for some extra income and for some thing to do. Some of the knowledge they have has been passed down from generation to generation.
> Its like GoL, AS, or anything else, take what makes sense or, what you can use, and try it.
> I like learning new things, I don't care who it is that is offering info. I'm just greatful that they are.
> ...



The "farmer cut" refers to the cutting style, and isn't a slight against farmers at all. Just a nickname a sloping back-cut has received over the years.

A lot of farmers know proper face and back-cut, as well as many other people who might work different vocations other than logging. 

My mechanic uses the sloping back-cut, because that's the way he was taught over on the east side in the Little Belts.

I've told him that it's not correct, to which he replied, "It works for me".


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## Slamm (Feb 19, 2012)

I've never been to a GOL class, but I'm sure glad some of the vet loggers that I learned from had been to them up in Wisconsin, those "students" that were veteran loggers/cutters taught me some very smart and safe practices, that I feel gave me a great start on production cutting without getting myself killed. 

Like everything the truth or facts are in the middle. Those PNW types that hate GOL almost to an irrational point aren't right, and anyone that thinks they can production cut just because they took a GOL class are wrong too. Bore cutting is a very safe method of cutting, a lot of different types of trees under quite a few different scenarios, but nobody claims it to be the fastest method, but in "MANY" cases it is the safest method if you are proficient in several different methods. Its not going to be proficient for someone who doesn't use it and isn't comfortable with it.

For the average Joe that is only going to cut a few trees per season or year or lifetime, learning and using the Bore Cut method is generally going to be the better route and the reason is simple. That method leaves holding wood on the backside almost like a padlock to hold the tree in place until you are really, really, really sure that you want to let it go. That is a big insurance policy for those that are less experienced in cutting down tree, if done just half way correctly you shouldn't have barberchairing and there shouldn't be any need for "racing the cut", especially for some nooby that doesn't know what or when to race the cut or probably doesn't have the balls to stay in there and keep cutting the back of the hinge when the tree starts to go over, because with bore cutting you get everything ready and then unlock the padlock and over she goes.

A lot of bore cut haters like to nit pick bad bore cutting/cutters, and thats fine, but I have shown many videos of decent sized trees going over just fine and fast and safe and exactly where I wanted them to go with bore cutting so there isn't anything inherently wrong with the method called bore cutting ................. if done correctly. Experience is the key to any method.

Making fun of rookies poorly executing a solid method is just as ignorant as claiming the method is faulty based on watching a rookie performing it. I extend that to some of these instructors "teaching" the method.

I recently attended a class that was started off with everything single speaker stated they had never logged and none were production cutters yet thats who we were suppose to learn from. At that point, I have more experience than they do, but they have something to teach, methods I need to check up on, so I add a grain of salt to their thoughts and methods and see where or how their "tools" will fit into my bag of tricks.

Bore cutting is a great method for cutting trees, its not always the fastest, but in a lot of cases it is one of the more safe methods to get a tree down. 

That said, in a typical day of low quality timber I might use bore cutting about 20-30% of the time, and a lot of that is a variantion of bore cutting where I don't bore anything, but I leave a back strap, which is the main key for safety. 

The rest of the percentage of cutting is in from the back and run to the hinge or cutting from the low side and around to the high side. That said, I find these faster methods much more unsafe for a rookie, due to the fact that things can happen much too quickly for them to read all of the signs of problems starting to happen, and before they know it things are falling down or over and they are commited good or bad to what happens next.

Sam


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## forestryworks (Feb 19, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> I've told him that it's not correct, to which he replied, "It works for me".



"Until you have to do some serious wedging."


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## jropo (Feb 19, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> The "farmer cut" refers to the cutting style, and isn't a slight against farmers at all. Just a nickname a sloping back-cut has received over the years.
> 
> A lot of farmers know proper face and back-cut, as well as many other people who might work different vocations other than logging.
> 
> ...



Oh Ok 
I know what your talking about, them drive me insane!!! And can't stand the sight of them and if I have the chance, I flush cut them and take the block of fire wood or two that they usally are on, depending on the height of the farmer that cut them.


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## homelitejim (Feb 19, 2012)

watched a friend of mine nick his chaps with his 026 lucky he was wearing them. Would have been nice to have when my Poulan backed out of the cut with enough force to cut my leg with the back of the handle, still would have hurt but I might not have the cut just a bruise


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## slowp (Feb 19, 2012)

One reason I went to the GOL because I was going to cut some smaller trees down for a friend. Bore cutting does not work in small trees averaging about 8 inches. I can't fit the bar in them. I was able to use it on one tree in the bunch, and it worked nicely, the tree swung a bit to where I wanted it to go. None of the other trees were large enough to fit an undercut and a bore cut in them. 

Nope, I am not going to get a smaller bar.


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## jropo (Feb 19, 2012)

slowp said:


> One reason I went to the GOL because I was going to cut some smaller trees down for a friend. Bore cutting does not work in small trees averaging about 8 inches. I can't fit the bar in them. I was able to use it on one tree in the bunch, and it worked nicely, the tree swung a bit to where I wanted it to go. None of the other trees were large enough to fit an undercut and a bore cut in them.
> 
> Nope, I am not going to get a smaller bar.



I read if they are that small you just stump jump them.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## PEKS (Feb 19, 2012)

Brad,
Glad your well..
It takes a lot of courage to admit your mistakes, let alone post a video of it..
This should help us all, it has for me..
Stay Safe..


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## rwoods (Feb 19, 2012)

Well we could save ourselves a lot of arguing and expense if we all just watch tonight's episode of Hollylogging (aka AxeMen). No PPE or GOL courses required - just your trusty .44 magnum revolver. If the hot lead fails to bring your tree down then you can just use the gun barrel to pry it over. Ron


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## sawinredneck (Feb 19, 2012)

Jesus! Lots of hogwash in this mess!
Glad you are alright Brad, hope you learned some things!
I can't, and wont say anything about wearing a helmet, I normally don't when falling, even though I have one and should, it limits my visibility, falls off my head at the wrong time etc. Excuses, I know, and I don't condone my behavior! What I do, is what I do, what you do is on you!
This GOL talk just makes me laugh! Sorry Brad, not calling you out on this but you admitted to it so I'm running with it. If you cut through the hinge, you cut through the hinge! I don't care if you bore cut it or not! You have NO CONTROL over the tree at that point! PERIOD! Brad made a horrific mistake and admitted to it! Bore cut or not, he boned the cut! I use bore cutting when I need to, but I'm damn sure not going to use it every cut because it's too dangerous in some situations! Then to insist to some beginning fallers to use it is fool hardy! I can just see some newbie with his brand new WalMart bought Wild thing trying to bore cut every tree he comes across cutting his leg off because he heard GOL was safer and had NO IDEA how to execute the cut!
Really, I'm shocked GOL was even brought up in this discussion, Brad admitted his fault, he cut the hinge, once that's done it's game over, I don't care how good you think you are! It's game over!
NOW!
In an attempt to make Brad feel like I'm not picking on him (I'm really not, this is good information to put out there!) About ten years ago I tried to cut my left thumb off with an angle grinder at the palm. 26 stitches and several weeks, all was fine. Seven years ago I succeeded with a mitre saw, right between the thumbnail and the knuckle. They cut my knuckle out and away we went. Friday night, I broke the nub that is left! Tearing out a floor in a bathroom to re-pipe it. 1/2" plywood with linoleum glued to it, I had a long crowbar pulling up while trying to shove a smaller pry bar in deeper with my other hand for another bite. Well the plywood tore right down the crowbar and smashed my thumb. I peed myself, I cried, and I said a lot of bad words! Nothing I can or could have done, #### happens! We try to learn, some of us are faster than others, some of us (ME!!) slower than others!
Thanks for sharing Brad!


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## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

sawinredneck said:


> Jesus! Lots of hogwash in this mess!
> Glad you are alright Brad, hope you learned some things!
> I can't, and wont say anything about wearing a helmet, I normally don't when falling, even though I have one and should, it limits my visibility, falls off my head at the wrong time etc. Excuses, I know, and I don't condone my behavior! What I do, is what I do, what you do is on you!
> This GOL talk just makes me laugh! Sorry Brad, not calling you out on this but you admitted to it so I'm running with it. If you cut through the hinge, you cut through the hinge! I don't care if you bore cut it or not! You have NO CONTROL over the tree at that point! PERIOD! Brad made a horrific mistake and admitted to it! Bore cut or not, he boned the cut! I use bore cutting when I need to, but I'm damn sure not going to use it every cut because it's too dangerous in some situations! Then to insist to some beginning fallers to use it is fool hardy! I can just see some newbie with his brand new WalMart bought Wild thing trying to bore cut every tree he comes across cutting his leg off because he heard GOL was safer and had NO IDEA how to execute the cut!
> ...



I cut through the hinge on a 24" hickory I was dropping last summer.......90 degrees off in the wrong direction it went. I dropped the saw and ran like hell.

I saw the mistake I made and these days I take more time when felling. I'm watching closely, and at times making some marks on the stem with my saw to go by. This may sound insanely stupid and slow for guys that do this stuff for a living, but I'm just a guy that drops trees to heat my house...and I want to live.


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## Gologit (Feb 20, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I cut through the hinge on a 24" hickory I was dropping last summer.......90 degrees off in the wrong direction it went. I dropped the saw and ran like hell.
> 
> I saw the mistake I made and these days I take more time when felling. I'm watching closely, and at times making some marks on the stem with my saw to go by. This may sound insanely stupid and slow for guys that do this stuff for a living, but I'm just a guy that drops trees to heat my house...and I want to live.



Nothing stupid about taking an extra minute or two to be safe. What counts is going home ...every time.


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## jropo (Feb 20, 2012)

sawinredneck said:


> Jesus! Lots of hogwash in this mess!
> Glad you are alright Brad, hope you learned some things!
> I can't, and wont say anything about wearing a helmet, I normally don't when falling, even though I have one and should, it limits my visibility, falls off my head at the wrong time etc. Excuses, I know, and I don't condone my behavior! What I do, is what I do, what you do is on you!
> This GOL talk just makes me laugh! Sorry Brad, not calling you out on this but you admitted to it so I'm running with it. If you cut through the hinge, you cut through the hinge! I don't care if you bore cut it or not! You have NO CONTROL over the tree at that point! PERIOD! Brad made a horrific mistake and admitted to it! Bore cut or not, he boned the cut! I use bore cutting when I need to, but I'm damn sure not going to use it every cut because it's too dangerous in some situations! Then to insist to some beginning fallers to use it is fool hardy! I can just see some newbie with his brand new WalMart bought Wild thing trying to bore cut every tree he comes across cutting his leg off because he heard GOL was safer and had NO IDEA how to execute the cut!
> ...




This makes sence, there is some good info in the manuals for beginners (if you bought a new saw or if you begged for the one for your used saw).

I don't think I'd recommend Gol to a person who has never ran a saw before due to the kick back potential alone, but Brad has ran a saw before, it might help him or he'll think its bs, that will be for him to decide if he decides to go forth.
I think he knows what to do, what he did wrong and how to prevent problems before he even steeped into the woods, just had a bad day, excited, and a lack of stump time.

So between the manual that goes w/ the saw and Gol, you either talk to a guy that has cut more trees than you have, or your up a creek. 
And I'm sure this guy did neither and chose the creek.

View attachment 225111







View attachment 225112






I'm really surprised that this guy is still able to ride around on his 4 wheeler and drink beer.
Seems like the perfect example of guy buys saw, guy tosses manual, guy goes to cut tree.


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## RandyMac (Feb 20, 2012)

Nobody is perfect. I misread this one, it came apart before it left the stump, I was still running when it hit the ground.


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## jropo (Feb 20, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Nobody is perfect. I misread this one, it came apart before it left the stump, I was still running when it hit the ground.



I can only imagine the size of that tree.
Scary stuff.


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## Hddnis (Feb 20, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Nothing stupid about taking an extra minute or two to be safe. What counts is going home ...every time.









Yep. 

Nothing stupid about making guide marks and a little double checking either. In fact you'll find that is how pros do it. Some of the double checks you won't notice just watching because it happens with a quick glance, slight movement of the saw, almost imperceptable. Also why a pro can seem to size up a tree so fast, often just walking up to it, they've done it a thousand times and stuff registers quick for them. The things that make for a safe drop are the same for all skill levels, just that a rookie may not know what to do and will certainly take alot longer doing it.




Mr. HE


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## mtfallsmikey (Feb 20, 2012)

edisto said:


> That's a good point. From one perspective, it looked like the direction was obvious, but I don't think anyone here would plan a fall from a single photograph. It's a hindsight issue...it's easy to tell which way the lean is once the tree is falling.
> 
> Now that things have settled, I'm going to have another go at what I was trying to do in the first place. If it causes a stink, I hope someone will be able to pick something useful out of the ensuing mess.
> 
> ...



I'd like to see a video of what you are talking about, Doesn't happen to me often but it does nonetheless.


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## Birddog1 (Feb 20, 2012)

happy to see that you are ok,it could have been a lot worst,you are very lucky,thanks for sharing Birddog


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## edisto (Feb 20, 2012)

mtfallsmikey said:


> I'd like to see a video of what you are talking about, Doesn't happen to me often but it does nonetheless.



Madhatte mentioned he had a video of him using a Dutchman on a leaner in the logging forum. I had a quick look, but didn't find it. I'll look again...


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## edisto (Feb 20, 2012)

edisto said:


> Madhatte mentioned he had a video of him using a Dutchman on a leaner in the logging forum. I had a quick look, but didn't find it. I'll look again...



Still no luck...maybe madhatte can provide the link.


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## madhatte (Feb 20, 2012)

Here 'tis. Note that it starts to bind, I power through, then it sits down good. You can't see the top, more's the pity, but in the time the bar was pinched, it rolled around about 120 degrees to miss a building on the left and a street on the right. Apologies for the poor video quality -- my good camera is dead and I only had my phone. This was the first time I'd attempted to swing a tree more than 90 degrees. I've since done a bunch more, and swung one about 180 degrees from its lean. Note that I'm not a faller, so I definitely take my time sizing things up. This was a hazard tree with heavy hanging branches all over it, damage from the ice storm we had a month or so ago. 

[video=youtube_share;VMV86cpJqwc]http://youtu.be/VMV86cpJqwc[/video]


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## edisto (Feb 20, 2012)

Thanks for posting it!

Although it's a little like the Loch Ness monster or Bigfoot videos...


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## sawinredneck (Feb 20, 2012)

Sorry about my rant last night, been a crappy weekend!
Bore cutting has it's place and is a great tool to have in the toolbox, I just think it's foolhardy to bore every tree, that's all.
I had a bad one a few years ago, 36" standing dead Oak, decent head lean, around 17deg to the fall. Easy take down. The wind was blowing against the fall but no biggie there either.
I made a smallish face cut, it's got a head lean, right? Then started on the side away from me to set up the hinge, 32" bar, and proceeded as normal with the back cut. I got about halfway into the back cut and the wind shifted on me, into the fall now.
At this point I should have cut like mad and tried to "chase it off the stump", I didn't. I kept cutting and watching as normal, then I heard the "CRACK", I pulled the saw out and ran. I turned around just in time to watch it fall over. Wish I'd had taken pics of it, barber chaired about 11 ft up in the air, nasty mess!
Easily could have killed me! Lessons learned: always make a proper face cut! NEVER trust the wind in Kansas! If it's dead and has a head lean, bore cut it!
Nobody is perfect, no fall is the same as the last one and if you don't learn something each tree you take down, your already dead!


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## edisto (Feb 20, 2012)

sawinredneck said:


> Sorry about my rant last night, been a crappy weekend!
> Bore cutting has it's place and is a great tool to have in the toolbox, I just think it's foolhardy to bore every tree, that's all.



I actually had never heard of a bore cut until I got on this site. I had always cut a "triangle" into the holding wood (with the apex pointing at the start of the backcut) and chased leaners. Gives you less wood to get through (and therefore a faster cut) where the risk of barberchairing is the greatest.

This tree was actually the first time i used a bore cut. The distance from the stump to where the second piece stuck itself into the ground gives a better idea of the lean than the perspective offers. I cut a big open face on that one.


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## Trx250r180 (Feb 20, 2012)

edisto said:


> I actually had never heard of a bore cut until I got on this site. I had always cut a "triangle" into the holding wood (with the apex pointing at the start of the backcut) and chased leaners. Gives you less wood to get through (and therefore a faster cut) where the risk of barberchairing is the greatest.
> 
> This tree was actually the first time i used a bore cut. The distance from the stump to where the second piece stuck itself into the ground gives a better idea of the lean than the perspective offers. I cut a big open face on that one.



if they are leaning this hard and think they are gonna barber chair a small relief cut on each side of the face cut will help prevent the barber chair also ,the alder and maple around here are real bad about that


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## sawinredneck (Feb 20, 2012)

edisto said:


> I actually had never heard of a bore cut until I got on this site. I had always cut a "triangle" into the holding wood (with the apex pointing at the start of the backcut) and chased leaners. Gives you less wood to get through (and therefore a faster cut) where the risk of barberchairing is the greatest.
> 
> This tree was actually the first time i used a bore cut. The distance from the stump to where the second piece stuck itself into the ground gives a better idea of the lean than the perspective offers. I cut a big open face on that one.



This is called the "golden triangle" or "coo's bay" cut, very effective on heavy head leaners!


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## edisto (Feb 20, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> if they are leaning this hard and think they are gonna barber chair a small relief cut on each side of the face cut will help prevent the barber chair also ,the alder and maple around here are real bad about that



That's solid advice! A little nip on the sides is a part of the triangle.



sawinredneck said:


> This is called the "golden triangle" or "coo's bay" cut, very effective on heavy head leaners!



I knew it had to be called something!

Don't know if it was the "when" or "where" I was when I got introduced to falling, but it seems they were more concerned about kickback with inexperienced folks than they were barberchairs, because they never talked about bore cutting.

Sounds like this "Game of Logging" has the opposite view. I had to look it up...seems like "game" is a poor choice of words...


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## madhatte (Feb 20, 2012)

edisto said:


> seems like "game" is a poor choice of words...



Always thought the same. It's a pretty lousy game that wants to kill you.


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## MotorSeven (Feb 20, 2012)

Helmet came in today. It's stamped China, but I have to say it is well done and very comfortable. No chin strap(pun intended), but it does have a neck strap.


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## forestryworks (Feb 20, 2012)

MotorSeven said:


> Helmet came in today. It's stamped China, but I have to say it is well done and very comfortable. No chin strap(pun intended), but it does have a neck strap.



The hell you need a chin strap for? Gonna guard the Queen of England? :hmm3grin2orange:

Those skull bucket suspensions aren't very comfortable. A tip: the Mac-T Stayz on suspensions fit that hardhat and are much more comfortable.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 20, 2012)

So, what are these Mac-Ts I keep seeing mention of? Are they still available? I searched and came up empty.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 20, 2012)

MotorSeven said:


> Helmet came in today. It's stamped China, but I have to say it is well done and very comfortable. No chin strap(pun intended), but it does have a neck strap.



Did that come from Baileys?


----------



## MotorSeven (Feb 20, 2012)

Try McDonald T's, they are antiques, no longer made, but USA made. Ebay has them from $30 on up.

FW, the chin strap thing was Brad's requirement for those rock climbing looking helmets he is trying to do a group buy on.

Fleabay search:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=mcdonald+t+hard+hat&_frs=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m359


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## pdqdl (Feb 20, 2012)

MotorSeven said:


> Helmet came in today. It's stamped China, but I have to say it is well done and very comfortable. No chin strap(pun intended), but it does have a neck strap.



That is only a 4 point susupension. I prefer a 6 point suspension. They are both stronger, safer, & (IMHO) more comfortable.

Not being critical; just stating my preferences.


----------



## MotorSeven (Feb 20, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Did that come from Baileys?



No, Bailey's wanted a little more than I was willing to pay.

I got it here, and if you call them and send it to a business addy, the freight is about $4 cheaper. Mine was just a little over $40 shipped:

https://www.hivispricesaver.com/ind..._id=79&zenid=32e111076d5412d62bfabe49b3341e0e

They also come in Stihl orange for the same price.


----------



## MotorSeven (Feb 20, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> That is only a 4 point susupension. I prefer a 6 point suspension. They are both stronger, safer, & (IMHO) more comfortable.
> 
> Not being critical; just stating my preferences.



Correct, but when I was fishing around the replacement 4 points seemed to be easier to find(Baileys $10)


----------



## Eric106 (Feb 20, 2012)

Never mind, a lot of posts can be added while you're typing.

-Eric


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## Gologit (Feb 21, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> So, what are these Mac-Ts I keep seeing mention of? Are they still available? I searched and came up empty.



The Mac-T isn't made anymore. Most loggers regret that, they were a fine hat. The Skull Bucket, and the cheap imitation of the Skull Bucket look a lot like the Mac-T.


----------



## MotorSeven (Feb 21, 2012)

Guys, I am not a pro, just a guy with a hundred ac that heats with wood. I try and learn as much as I can here. I know this, my plastic Stihl helmet w/ear protection sucks. It pinches/pulls my hair all the time, the slots for face shield cracked on both sides(I have no idea how it happened), and the ear muffs are too dang hot most of the year. So, I have been leaving the dang thing on the 'wheeler instead of wearing it. Brad's thread reminded me that I was being negligent in favor of comfort, so I am going to give this aluminium bucket a try, but I can say right off the bat, it is way more comfortable which means I might actually wear it when cutting:msp_thumbup:

Is it ok to say I even _like _the "retro look"?........man I'm gettin old................


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## blsnelling (Feb 21, 2012)

I was laying in bed, and it donned on me...I have one of those aluminum helmets, lol! One of you guys gave it to me a good while back. I'm guessing that this is a Mac-T? It's marked B. F. McDonald Co. It's just been setting on a shelf in the garage for a couple years. The suspension was totally rotted out, so I removed all that. Anyone know where I can buy replacement suspension?


----------



## forestryworks (Feb 21, 2012)

As previously mentioned on this site, eBay and garage sales will be your best bets for Mac-T hard hats.

Brad, you have the 6pt. hat. No suspensions available for them, unless you can find the old leather ones on eBay. I never cared for the old 6pt. though, didn't fit my head. Keep that hat though, good shop piece.

4pt. Mac-T hats pop up on eBay now and again. I've scored two. And Madsen's and Bailey's sell the Mac-T Stayz on suspensions for the 4pt. hats.


----------



## forestryworks (Feb 21, 2012)

MotorSeven said:


> No, Bailey's wanted a little more than I was willing to pay.
> 
> I got it here, and if you call them and send it to a business addy, the freight is about $4 cheaper. Mine was just a little over $40 shipped:
> 
> ...



That looks like the Skull Bucket hats re-badged as Forester brand.


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## blsnelling (Feb 21, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> Brad, you have the 6pt. hat. No suspensions available for them, unless you can find the old leather ones on eBay. I never cared for the old 6pt. though, didn't fit my head. Keep that hat though, good shop piece.



Bummer. It'd be cool to breathe life back into this oldie.


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## Gologit (Feb 21, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Bummer. It'd be cool to breathe life back into this oldie.



Ask SlowP. I sent her an old 6 point Mac and she was going to try to make a suspension for it.


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## 2dogs (Feb 21, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> That looks like the Skull Bucket hats re-badged as Forester brand.



No that is a Red Chinese knock off and part of the reason Skull Bucket hasn't made hats lately. Bailey's and other companies don't really come clean in their ads that this is a replica of a Skull Bucket. I bought a Skull Bucket from Cowlitz when they first came out but I ended sell the hat to my boss because it just was not comfortable for me. I have two Mac-Ts, a cap which I bought new and a hat from ebay. I really prefer the Bullard wildland hat for most uses but they do need to be replaced every few years.


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## Hddnis (Feb 21, 2012)

I've got a Crown Zellerbach full brim tin hat stashed away somewhere, probably a Macdonald. IIRC it is a six point with an intact suspension. I'll see if I can dig it out in the next few days. 




Mr. HE


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## blsnelling (Feb 21, 2012)

I fetched one of the six straps out of the trash this morning. If you could find the material, it wouldn't be hard to make. What was the headband made of?


----------



## slowp (Feb 21, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> The hell you need a chin strap for? Gonna guard the Queen of England? :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Those skull bucket suspensions aren't very comfortable. A tip: the Mac-T Stayz on suspensions fit that hardhat and are much more comfortable.



You have to have a chin strap when working or going to ride in helicopters. My Mac T also has clips to hold a 
headlight on--night shift need on fires. 

There's no need to spend a fortune on a hard hat. The plastic ones work well and come in a variety of colors.
I just like my old Mac T because it is lighter than plastic. 

I had to wear a Bullard hard hat. I'll take a picture of it when I find it. They are heavier than any of the others, but are what is worn on the fireline. They have a 6 point suspension. It was heavy, but it sure stayed on during "acrobatics" no chin strap needed. They are also very expensive. They hold up well to the back in at the office, open door, hat fall out onto pavement treatment.


----------



## slowp (Feb 21, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I fetched one of the six straps out of the trash this morning. If you could find the material, it wouldn't be hard to make. What was the headband made of?



I guess that would be something to do today. The weather is nasty and supposed to get worse. The headband was leather. 

I did get that far. I cut and stitched three strips of leather together. I was trying to wait to find narrower straps for the suspension. I have nylon webbing, which is wider and thicker than the original. 

To adjust the old ones, there were holes punched in the leather, and you laced those up. It was not easy to compensate for big hair days. 

An awl will be needed. I tried to stitch it on my treadle sewing machine. The old treadles will sew tougher materials than electric, but the leather was too tough for the treadle. I stitched it by hand with an awl.

Time for a warning. I would guess that a pristine hardhat with the approved, design suspension would be safer than a home made suspension. To be safe, I'd be wearing the factory made hardhat.


----------



## edisto (Feb 21, 2012)

slowp said:


> An awl will be needed. I tried to stitch it on my treadle sewing machine. The old treadles will sew tougher materials than electric, but the leather was too tough for the treadle. I stitched it by hand with an awl.



This may be what you used, but I have found the "Speedy Stitcher" sewing awl to be very effective for leatherwork and repairs.



slowp said:


> Time for a warning. I would guess that a pristine hardhat with the approved, design suspension would be safer than a home made suspension. To be safe, I'd be wearing the factory made hardhat.



But would it look as cool?


----------



## slowp (Feb 21, 2012)

Here are three suspension types.

This is what came with the 6 point hat.






This is the Bullard. It has velcro for the neck thingies that can be worn on fires. That is my own cooties and dirt on the suspension. Icky!





This is a Skull Bucket suspension in an old, but in good shape, (I found it with moss on it under a tree at a yard sale) Mac T. Got the suspension at the big candy store for guys in Chehalis.






View attachment 225307
View attachment 225308
View attachment 225309


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## Gologit (Feb 21, 2012)

slowp said:


> Time for a warning. I would guess that a pristine hardhat with the approved, design suspension would be safer than a home made suspension. To be safe, I'd be wearing the factory made hardhat.



The home made suspension might be _better_, too.


----------



## slowp (Feb 21, 2012)

Gologit said:


> The home made suspension might be _better_, too.



Who will volunteer for testing?:smile2:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 21, 2012)

slowp said:


> Who will volunteer for testing?:smile2:



Seems as though I would be a good test mule. I've already shown that I can take a pretty good lickin' and keep on kickin'


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## Philbert (Feb 21, 2012)

slowp said:


> Time for a warning. I would guess that a pristine hardhat with the approved, design suspension would be safer than a home made suspension. To be safe, I'd be wearing the factory made hardhat.



I was holding back on this, but slowp is correct. Most people look at the hard shell as being the most important part of a 'hard hat', but it is the suspension that absorbs the impact.

The shell resists penetration and spreads the impact across the suspension, but straps that are too soft can fail, and straps that are too stiff can just transfer the load to your neck. You can sew new straps but you cannot test them like the manufacturers do.

Philbert

wisha-training.lni.wa.gov/training/trainingkits/hardhats/hardhats.ppt

All About Head Protection And Hard Hat Safety

Hard hat quality control


----------



## 2dogs (Feb 21, 2012)

slowp said:


> Here are three suspension types.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Bullard helmet Patty shows is an old style, made prior to March 2008. I should probably be retired (by destroying it). Or at least washed.:msp_razz: The Bullard stays on my head best and has a great chinstrap that stays tucked up across the brim when not needed. 

Firecache-Helmets (Hats & Caps)


----------



## GoRving (Feb 21, 2012)

Thanks for posting the video, as that will likely "wake-up" some of us. Glad you are ok. I've had 4 concussions in my life, with one being alot worse than the others(none tree related, though).


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## joatmon (Feb 21, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Seems as though I would be a good test mule. I've already shown that I can take a pretty good lickin' and keep on kickin'



Brad ... remember, the branch won .... and you did miss 30 ticks, eh? Be safe ... joat


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## slowp (Feb 21, 2012)

2dogs said:


> The Bullard helmet Patty shows is an old style, made prior to March 2008. I should probably be retired (by destroying it). Or at least washed.:msp_razz: The Bullard stays on my head best and has a great chinstrap that stays tucked up across the brim when not needed.
> 
> Firecache-Helmets (Hats & Caps)



Yes it is. The new style one I was given as a replacement would not stay on. The final straw was when I tripped, it fell off, I did a faceplant ON the hardhat and got a sore and bloody nose. That hat went into the backseat to be used by others when they "forgot" their hardhats. I went back to the old model, which stayed on. 

Injured by a hardhat. I did not fill out an accident report.


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## Metals406 (Feb 21, 2012)

I think it was Wowzers who simply drilled and riveted a 4 point suspension in an old Mac-T. . . So Brad, you could indeed wear that full-brim.

Or just send it to me.


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## MotorSeven (Feb 21, 2012)

SlowP that sucks, but it is a funny story.:hmm3grin2orange:

I wore my new hat today for about 6 hrs. I had a neighbor/logger come by with his 650 dozer to help me skid out 2 dozen big cedars, 3 that I hung up in the dense woods. The hat is 10 times more comfortable than my plastic Stihl. I never had to monkey with and it stayed put the whole morning, and NO PINCHING. It is a little noisier when you thwap it with a branch, but you get used to it. I'll keep the plastic one for a spare, but I ain't wearing it ever again.

Now I'm off to fork them with the tractor and get them over to my mill. Brad, you might be better picking up a 4 point, since the suspension systems are readily available.


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## blsnelling (Feb 23, 2012)

I ended up with a new full brim loggers hard hat. I went at it slowp style with the decalse, lol.

Hehehehehe






I had a lot of spare decals from resoration projects. What better place to put them. I still want to get a couple "Magnum" decals from Stihl.


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## Anthony_Va. (Feb 23, 2012)

Thats a good hat man. I like the decals but it reminds me of a race car. :msp_razz:

Is that a Skull bucket? Looks a little different than mine so I was J/W.


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## blsnelling (Feb 23, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> Thats a good hat man. I like the decals but it reminds me of a race car. :msp_razz:
> 
> Is that a Skull bucket? Looks a little different than mine so I was J/W.



More speed!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a Forester, made in China It only cost me $30 though.


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## lmbrman (Feb 23, 2012)

I have a woods truck and a nice truck, but only one helmet - Brad, that helmet is awful purty for the woods


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## edisto (Feb 23, 2012)

blsnelling said:


>



Something ain't right about those suspenders...are you wearing pants?


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## lmbrman (Feb 23, 2012)

edisto said:


> Something ain't right about those suspenders...are you wearing pants?



no more pictures please - just in case !


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## blsnelling (Feb 23, 2012)

edisto said:


> Something ain't right about those suspenders...are you wearing pants?



I was waiting on someone to catch that, lol. Actually, I was wearing dress pants, and my shirt was untucked. The suspenders were hanging short. I Photoshopped them on down to the bottom of the pic. I also removed all the shadows. I noticed that they went too low, but oh well.


----------



## edisto (Feb 23, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I was waiting on someone to catch that, lol. Actually, I was wearing dress pants, and my shirt was untucked. The suspenders were hanging short. I Photoshopped them on down to the bottom of the pic. I also removed all the shadows. I noticed that they went too low, but oh well.



Mystery solved.

Seemed odd to me that getting rapped in the head would make you longer in the waist...


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## joatmon (Feb 24, 2012)

*OK .... here's an important question.*

Do we need a poem to chronicle the Brad/Ed/pants/suspender affair?


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## blsnelling (Feb 24, 2012)

joatmon said:


> Do we need a poem to chronicle the Brad/Ed/pants/suspender affair?


*No!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## slowp (Feb 24, 2012)

Just be sure to wear the hardhat. I fear you won't because it will mess up the pretty stickers.


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## mt.stalker (Feb 24, 2012)

I think you've doubled the re-sale value of that chelmet with those decals ! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Trx250r180 (Feb 24, 2012)

that hard hats to purdy ,you need to throw it across the pavement a few times ,dont think ive ever seen one that nice


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## edisto (Feb 24, 2012)

joatmon said:


> Do we need a poem to chronicle the Brad/Ed/pants/suspender affair?



A branch over Brad hunting cants,
Stuck a blow that was more than a glance.
The lesson from that,
Was to wear a hard hat,
But perhaps he should also wear pants.


----------



## Bounty Hunter (Feb 24, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> that hard hats to purdy ,you need to throw it across the pavement a few times ,dont think ive ever seen one that nice



That's fer sure...nice lid...but git out there and throw it!


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## Yukon Stihl (Feb 24, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> More speed!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a Forester, made in China It only cost me $30 though.


Can't say i would buy something made in china to protect my head,or ass for that mater:msp_thumbdn:Havn't seen much quality with made in china on it let alone something thats supposed to protect you.Must be a good hardhat that is made in the Good Ole USA ,just saying
Nice decals though,too bad the hat sucks


----------



## joatmon (Feb 24, 2012)

edisto said:


> A branch over Brad hunting cants,
> Stuck a blow that was more than a glance.
> The lesson from that,
> Was to wear a hard hat,
> But perhaps he should also wear pants.



Keep your day job! You still work in the prison library?


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 24, 2012)

edisto said:


> A branch over Brad hunting cants,
> Stuck a blow that was more than a glance.
> The lesson from that,
> Was to wear a hard hat,
> But perhaps he should also wear pants.


Actually made me laugh out loud


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Feb 24, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I ended up with a new full brim loggers hard hat. I went at it slowp style with the decalse, lol.
> 
> Hehehehehe
> 
> ...





slowp said:


> Just be sure to wear the hardhat. I fear you won't because it will mess up the pretty ****** stickers.



slowp.....by chance....do you happen to have any extra Barbie stickers/decals for the new hat? :hmm3grin2orange: :yoyo:


----------



## joatmon (Feb 24, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Actually made me laugh out loud



Off to the woods with no pants,
Brad was taking a big chance,
Encountered a bear,
Noticed him bare,
He barely escaped romance!

Stihl laughing?


----------



## slowp (Feb 24, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> slowp.....by chance....do you happen to have any extra Barbie stickers/decals for the new hat? :hmm3grin2orange: :yoyo:



They can be found in the greeting card section of your local Walmart. Otherwise, it is a 60 mile (one way) drive for me to get them and I don't have a long enough grocery list yet.


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 24, 2012)

joatmon said:


> Off to the woods with no pants,
> Brad was taking a big chance,
> Encountered a bear,
> Noticed him bare,
> ...







Might I suggest the last word should be bearmance. :hmm3grin2orange:



Mr. HE


----------



## edisto (Feb 24, 2012)

joatmon said:


> Keep your day job! You still work in the prison library?



Not since they opened the prison nail salon.


----------



## joatmon (Feb 24, 2012)

edisto said:


> Not since they opened the prison nail salon.



Ha, my cuticles are not the same since I got released.


----------



## andydodgegeek (Feb 24, 2012)

Brad, what do you use to buff your helmet? :hmm3grin2orange:


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## edisto (Feb 24, 2012)

Ol' Joat was trying to scare,
Poor Bradley with tales about bears,
But everyone knows,
There's no bears in 'hio,
You can nap on the stumps with no cares.


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## joatmon (Feb 24, 2012)

You bet I'll give Brad a big scare,
'Bout goin' to the woods when he's bare,
I'll tell you what,
A buckeye's a nut,
I think they're deserving of care!


----------



## joatmon (Feb 24, 2012)

andydodgegeek said:


> Brad, what do you use to *buff* your helmet? :hmm3grin2orange:



Andy's got game!


----------



## madhatte (Feb 24, 2012)

blsnelling said:


>



There ya go!


----------



## blsnelling (Mar 2, 2012)

This is me in my previous life


----------



## MtnHermit (Mar 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


>



I always wondered if that every happened. Guess he won't be passing on his genes . . . evolution at work.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Mar 2, 2012)

This is totally embarrrrrrressing........hook your suspenders!....and where's your pu$$y pad.


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## blsnelling (Mar 2, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> This is totally embarrrrrrressing........hook your suspenders!....and where's your pu$$y pad.



That's right! I took your last one didn't I? They work great for soaking up the sweat under my headband. What do YOU use them for?!!


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## Dennis Cahoon (Mar 2, 2012)

A Pu$$y pad is put on your shoulder to carry your saw on, not in your hardhat......numbskull!


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 2, 2012)

need some corks and a hick shirt now ,and cut the bottoms off your carharts


----------



## homelitejim (Mar 3, 2012)

This thread got me thinking......
[video=youtube;Iq7bk6eS5vs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq7bk6eS5vs[/video]

That's right, now I won't go cutting without one. Just have to find one with a full brim. Now someone needs to lob off their leg to convince me to get some chaps........that there was a joke, I will be picking up some chaps as soon as the ranch and home store gets them in.


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## blsnelling (Mar 4, 2012)

slowp said:


> Just be sure to wear the hardhat. I fear you won't because it will mess up the pretty stickers.



Never fear! I had full intentions of wearing this hardhat, but I'm now the proud owner of a NOS MacT. A forum member here kindly picked one up for me and shipped it to me. You know who you are. Thanks!!!


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Mar 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


>




Brad!.......hate to tell you this, but that's a stolen hardhat. Proof is in the stamp.......Hahahahahahaha!

Long story, but got a McCould confinstated from a PissFir Willie once, with that offical stamp on it.


----------



## blsnelling (Mar 4, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Brad!.......hate to tell you this, but that's a stolen hardhat. Proof is in the stamp.......Hahahahahahaha!
> 
> Long story, but got a McCould confinstated from a PissFir Willie once, with that offical stamp on it.



It was purchased from a shop.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Mar 4, 2012)

Sure it was!.....it doesn't say US Forest Service Approved......Hahahahahaha!


----------



## Rounder (Mar 4, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Brad!.......hate to tell you this, but that's a stolen hardhat. Proof is in the stamp.......Hahahahahahaha!
> 
> Long story, but got a McCould confinstated from a PissFir Willie once, with that offical stamp on it.



Those were purchased at a FS auction by the local saw shop that does a large amount of bussiness with the FS. As they're no longer FS approved, they were getting rid of them.


----------



## Gologit (Mar 4, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Brad!.......hate to tell you this, but that's a stolen hardhat. Proof is in the stamp.......Hahahahahahaha!
> 
> Long story, but got a McCould *confinstated* from a PissFir Willie once, with that offical stamp on it.



Confinstated? Jeez, Cahoon, call Hooked on Phonics and get your money back. Then get out in the shop and build something. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## mdavlee (Mar 4, 2012)

Here's one I picked up off ebay last week. Just had one sticker related to saw stuff so I stuck in on there.


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## Gologit (Mar 4, 2012)

You guys ready to cry some big tears? 

There was a logging outfit in the valley, I'll bet Cahoon knows who I'm talking about, that had five large cardboard boxes full of brand new totally unused MacT hats. I'm not sure but there had to be at least a hundred. They were probably bought back in the late 60s and then just shoved in a dark corner of a warehouse and forgotten.

Forgotten until a couple of years ago, that is. During a major clean up project they were discovered and brought out. They were then laid out on the ground, run over with a D-6, and taken to the local scrap dealer.


----------



## branchbuzzer (Mar 4, 2012)

Gologit said:


> You guys ready to cry some big tears?
> 
> There was a logging outfit in the valley, I'll bet Cahoon knows who I'm talking about, that had five large cardboard boxes full of brand new totally unused MacT hats. I'm not sure but there had to be at least a hundred. They were probably bought back in the late 60s and then just shoved in a dark corner of a warehouse and forgotten.
> 
> Forgotten until a couple of years ago, that is. During a major clean up project they were discovered and brought out. They were then laid out on the ground, run over with a D-6, and taken to the local scrap dealer.



and they probably got a buck or less for each....


----------



## Philbert (Mar 4, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> that's a stolen hardhat. Proof is in the stamp.......got a McCould confinstated from a PissFir Willie once, with that offical stamp on it.



Get some Alpha stamps and add "I support The" above the 'US Forest Service' letters. Or put some duct tape over it.

Philbert


----------



## Rounder (Mar 4, 2012)

Gologit said:


> You guys ready to cry some big tears?
> 
> There was a logging outfit in the valley, I'll bet Cahoon knows who I'm talking about, that had five large cardboard boxes full of brand new totally unused MacT hats. I'm not sure but there had to be at least a hundred. They were probably bought back in the late 60s and then just shoved in a dark corner of a warehouse and forgotten.
> 
> Forgotten until a couple of years ago, that is. During a major clean up project they were discovered and brought out. They were then laid out on the ground, run over with a D-6, and taken to the local scrap dealer.



Unreal.....The guys at the shop got 30 at the FS auction and they got snapped up quick once word got around.

They also got a bunch of the old "Featherlites" at the auction, but still can't find a replacement suspension. They've got the old leather and string set up. Did you ever come for something that works Bob?

The Forest Service must have had those tucked away in a corner for a looong time.


----------



## blsnelling (Mar 4, 2012)

mtsamloggit said:


> The Forest Service must have had those tucked away in a corner for a looong time.




Any idea how old these MacTs are? It's obvious that they have some age to them.


----------



## Gologit (Mar 4, 2012)

mtsamloggit said:


> They also got a bunch of the old "Featherlites" at the auction, but still can't find a replacement suspension. They've got the old leather and string set up. Did you ever come for something that works Bob?




Slowp has that hat now an she's been trying to fabricate a suspension for it.


----------



## McCulloch1-52 (Mar 4, 2012)

will its a good thing you did not get the barber chair and always wear your hard hat


----------



## Philbert (Mar 4, 2012)

Gologit said:


> During a major clean up project they were discovered and brought out. They were then laid out on the ground, run over with a D-6, and taken to the local scrap dealer.





blsnelling said:


> Any idea how old these MacTs are?



Some companies get pretty squirrelly when it comes to potential liability, and selling outdated safety gear, or stuff that does not meet current standards, probably got their lawyers' hairs all standing up on end.

I looked on the website for MSA (Mine Safety Equipment), which apparently made those, but it only showed plastic, full brimmed hard hats. I did find these on another site:
< Aluminum Metal Hard Hats from T.a.s.c.o. > 
which look similar. Can't say that the suspensions are interchangable.

(Sorry "Manage Attachments" feature on A.S. is not working right now for some reason so I can't attach a photo)

Philbert


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## Hddnis (Mar 4, 2012)

That looks like a nice set up and that new suspension sure is close if not a match.

Just what I need, one more item to buy.



Mr. HE


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## Rounder (Mar 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Any idea how old these MacTs are? It's obvious that they have some age to them.



I'm not sure, I'll ask when I stop in the shop at the end of the week. They do have the miner's headlamp clamps, and I would guess that it's been a long time since OSHA considered these OK for use in mines.


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## Philbert (Mar 5, 2012)

This photo:







*NOTE - _NOT_ intended to promote a non-sponsor - just showing that similar items as discussed might still be available. Some site sponsors may stock these Tasco brand helmets.*

Philbert


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## Sport Faller (Mar 5, 2012)

Just found this thread, damn Brad, glad you didn't get killed. I started wearing a hardhat all the time after almost getting domed when I knocked the top out of a dead Spruce I was wedging over


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## jra1100 (Mar 5, 2012)

I just found this also. Don't know how I missed it the first time by. First off, man you took a nasty whack to the head there Brad. Luckily it hit you in your least vulnerable spot. LOL. Seriously I commend you for posting what is without doubt a bit of an embarrassing mistake. Takes a real man to put that out there in order to benefit others. I have had some close ones as have most if not all on AS. Glad it wasn't worse than it was. JR


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## sprung22 (Mar 5, 2012)

This is the first I heard about this...Just wanted to say Im really glad your OK Brad...And thank's for being man enough to talk and post a vid about it...


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## nhlogga (Mar 5, 2012)

So glad you are still with us to tell the story. You are lucky. Atleast you knew what you did wrong and now you will not repeat the mistakes. I have been there. We all get cocky and careless and get bit in the ass for it.


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## blsnelling (Mar 5, 2012)

Just a quick update. I'm feeling fine, with no remaining effects from the hit. The first week I did deal with lingering issues from the concussion. About 4 days afterwards, I had an episode of slightly blurry vision, enough to make me sick to my stomach. I was very fatigued and just generally didn't feel very well. I rested a lot that first week and a half. After than, I've been fine. Thanks for all the well wished! All's well that ends well.


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## blsnelling (Mar 5, 2012)

Oh.......I do still have an "H" stamped into my scalp and a nice bald spot to display it


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## Stumpys Customs (Mar 5, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> Here's one I picked up off ebay last week. Just had one sticker related to saw stuff so I stuck in on there.



Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:msp_wub:


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## H 2 H (Mar 5, 2012)

I just went thru this thread myself today glad your ok

It brings back a bad memory for me 

Just got a brand new saw and my Dad wanted to fall this dying alder and when he started his back cut a wind pick up the tree split and he fell flat on the ground trying to get away from it and the tree landed right next to him ontop of the new saw it was just a small price to pay


EDIT: this happen several years ago


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## edisto (Mar 6, 2012)

Philbert said:


> *NOTE - _NOT_ intended to promote a non-sponsor - just showing that similar items as discussed might still be available. Some site sponsors may stock these Tasco brand helmets.*
> 
> Philbert



Too late...I reported you to the moderators.


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## Philbert (Mar 6, 2012)

edisto said:


> Too late...I reported you to the moderators.



Thanks. You're a pal.

Looks like the same helmets are available through Bailey's, for a few dollars less:

Bailey's - Full Brim Aluminum Hard Hats

Not sure if Bailey's stocks the replacement suspensions.

Philbert


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## Chris J. (Mar 6, 2012)

Brad, I'm glad to hear that your injuries weren't any worse. If nothing else, this thread & the vid gave some of us something to think about.

I haven't been on AS much recently, I'm just now seeing this thread. I'll have to read all the posts later, but from what I did read I sure am glad that I put voidjackass :msp_thumbdn: on my ignore list.


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## ft. churchill (Mar 14, 2012)

I wish you a speedy recovery Brad. I idolize you and have learned allot from your posts here and on You tube. (that is how I found out about AS). I have learned something else, which is not to take safety lightly. I've ordered some chaps, and I'm going to start wearing my hardhat. I always use eye protection, gloves, and earplugs. Thanks for havin' enough brass to post this as it may save others from unnecessary injury. Get well soon, Mike.


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## tallguys (Mar 14, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Just a quick update. I'm feeling fine, with no remaining effects... All's well that ends well.



Man, that was a nasty close call... and a good reminder to everyone to not get lax where safety is concerned. 

Glad to hear that you're doing okay as it could easily have been a lot worse.


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## Gologit (Mar 15, 2012)

rogue60 said:


> one more thing and this may upset a few dudes and i dont mean to, but man what the hell is up with that old Aluminum Hard Hat? it looks like it was made in 1920..last time i had a look it is 2012 LOL times r a moving...why not have the best out there today husky make the same as stihl as far as helmets go...or go with what was cool in 1920?...:msp_confused:



Don't worry about us and our antiquated tin hats. It's called "making a choice"...something that we're allowed to do here.

You can keep wearing _your_ style and we won't make fun of you for looking like Roger Ramjet the Space Cadet.


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## blsnelling (Mar 15, 2012)

I don't see where your plastic helmet will provide any more protection than our aluminum ones. They both have similar suspensions.


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## sharkness (Mar 15, 2012)

I wear chaps but don't own a hard hat.After watching this I better put one on the shopping list. I don't know about everyone else but sometimes for me it is not that easy to tell which way a tree wants to fall. Where I cut it is always on hillsides and the trees are far from strait.The base leans one way and the top is twisted the opposite direction. It's always easier to tell someone how they should have done it after the fact.


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## KRS (Mar 15, 2012)

I'm sitting here hanging my head, that's harrowing.

Animals and trees; they're both w-i-l-d and we try and control them, but they will do as they please regardless of our desire sometimes.

Glad you're okay.

Thank you.

KRS


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## paccity (Mar 15, 2012)

rogue60 said:


> one more thing and this may upset a few dudes and i dont mean to, but man what the hell is up with that old Aluminum Hard Hat? it looks like it was made in 1920..last time i had a look it is 2012 LOL times r a moving...why not have the best out there today husky make the same as stihl as far as helmets go...or go with what was cool in 1920?...:msp_confused:



because they still work .


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## woodfarmer (Mar 15, 2012)

#1 you are lucky to not get hurt more than you were or killed.
#2 i can't believe you didn't head straight for the house and call 911
#3 now i will be more carefull than ever as i usually fell trees by myself.

Thanks for posting


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## RandyMac (Mar 15, 2012)

rogue60 said:


> one more thing and this may upset a few dudes and i dont mean to, but man what the hell is up with that old Aluminum Hard Hat? it looks like it was made in 1920..last time i had a look it is 2012 LOL times r a moving...why not have the best out there today husky make the same as stihl as far as helmets go...or go with what was cool in 1920?...:msp_confused:



The wide brim keeps the rain off and your ears won't get sunburned.
Not everything new is better.


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## Dennis Cahoon (Mar 15, 2012)

ft. churchill said:


> I wish you a speedy recovery Brad. I idolize you.....QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Oh Bradley......I idolize you too!.......Especially your "complete rookie" felling technique.....Hahahahahaha!


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## blsnelling (Mar 15, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> ft. churchill said:
> 
> 
> > I wish you a speedy recovery Brad. I idolize you.....QUOTE]
> ...


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## Gologit (Mar 15, 2012)

Maybe the main advantage to one of those Space Cadet helmets is that if you get hit with a big enough widow maker to kill you all your broken skull pieces and splattered brain matter will still be contained inside the helmet. 

That always makes things easier for the guys that pack you out...they don't have to go around picking up pieces of you with a spoon.

A slab or a limb or a big piece of bark heavy enough to hurt you when you're wearing a tin hat is also probably going to hurt you wearing anything else. The only way to know for sure is real-world testing. Any volunteers?


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## Philbert (Mar 15, 2012)

The primary advantages of plastic or composites over aluminum hard hats:

- do not conduct electricity;
- do not conduct cold temps as much;
- easier for manufacturers to mold to a specific shape;
- molded attachment points for hearing muffs, face shields, etc.;
- less expensive;
- easier to mold in a variety of decorator colors;
- quieter when it rains.

Advantages of aluminum:
- recyclable;
- vintage/classic look;
- no UV degradation;
- block cosmic ray surveillance from commie thought police;
-

As long as you are using a helmet that meets standards, it is mostly a matter of preference.
As has been said before, if you don't wear it, it ain't gonna do you any good.

You can still get the full brim style helmet in plastic or composite materials.

Philbert


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## zogger (Mar 15, 2012)

Philbert said:


> The primary advantages of plastic or composites over aluminum hard hats:
> 
> - do not conduct electricity;
> - do not conduct cold temps as much;
> ...



There aren't any kevlar or graphite fiber, etc, more exotic materials helmets for forestry, just injection molded bucket plastic or aluminum? 

As to UV degradation with plastic, perhaps a cheap spray can of paint might work to slow that down.


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## Philbert (Mar 15, 2012)

zogger said:


> There aren't any kevlar or graphite fiber, etc, more exotic materials helmets for forestry, just injection molded bucket plastic or aluminum?
> As to UV degradation with plastic, perhaps a cheap spray can of paint might work to slow that down.



There are composite helmets made for a variety of applications. For example, kevlar (and similar products) are used in high heat environments. You could still wear these for forestry applications as they would exceed the requirements. They just cost a whole lot more. You could not, however, wear the forestry helmets in a steel mill.

Here, for example, is a full brim, phenolic/composite helmet for $85. 







The UV degradation takes time. Worsens if you leave your plastic hard hat in the rear view window of your car/truck, where it gets baked.

You also have to be careful with paint, tape, stickers, etc., on plastic helmets, as the solvents in some of the adhesives can soften the shell (another point for aluminum - but it won't resist muriatic acid!).

Philbert


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## BlackOakTreeServ (Mar 15, 2012)

WOW Brad, talk about going out on a limb for us...lol

all joking aside, Im glad you are still with us brother.


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## H 2 H (Mar 15, 2012)

Man today I wouldnt be falling any tress here with 30 to 40 mph gust of wind; I was out back behide the barn and heard two tress come down just cant wait till there isnt any wind because those trees will be fire wood


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## Rounder (Mar 15, 2012)

paccity said:


> because they still work .



All I wear, and I'm fairly sure I wouldn't be here a couple times over had I not been wearing it. It's always kind of interesting to wake up and try and figure out what the hell happened. Still not sure what happened one time......just real happy I had that antique on.


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## edisto (Mar 15, 2012)

Gologit said:


> A slab or a limb or a big piece of bark heavy enough to hurt you when you're wearing a tin hat is also probably going to hurt you wearing anything else. The only way to know for sure is real-world testing. Any volunteers?



I'm in...as long as it's only those sissy Doug firs.


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## slowp (Mar 15, 2012)

I have worn plastic, heavy plastic, and aluminum. I prefer the aluminum. It is lighter and cooler than the plastic. How does it stay on? Well, you need to find the perfect fitting suspension and get it adjusted just right. A good fitting hardhat will stay on even when unplanned acrobatics occur in the woods. A poorly fitted one will fall off and roll down to the creek, where you wish you could leave it. 

Here are _Real Pro Loggers _wearing the current styles. Some like plastic, some don't. 










View attachment 229120
View attachment 229121


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## PARTSWOODCHUCK (Mar 15, 2012)

Man! Luckliy the limb was nice enough to stay attached to the tree. That makes the whooping A LOT more tolerable, by slowing down gravity. I got whacked last month cutting hemlock at work to stock up for this summers milling needs. There was a 6" by 20' very dead hemlock pole about 10 feet in front of the tree I was felling. I make my box, then back cut, tree starts to fall right where I want it. Next as always I take a few steps back and look up to avoid widow makers. Tree falls and the butt comes into contact with the pole, the pole pops straight up. I'm thinking "okay it went straight up now it will drop straight down".....

NOPE the tree rolled on arrival to the ground and the pole headed for my melon like a pro steroid induced baseball swing!! UH-OH, at this point I'm trying to outrun my shadow with the sun at my back. I look back to guage where it's gonna smack me, just as I suspected my cabbage is the primary target. I tucked my head as far into my chest cavity as it would go and tilted my head in preparation of getting my eggs scrambled. Whack! the ten foot belly slide that preceeded my coworker's ghostly palor and slack jawed expression was actually kinda fun but the resulting headache was deffinately not worth the ride.

My buddy never wore a hardhat either, I demonstrated the effectiveness of the Husqvarna Pro Forestry Helmet "strictly" for his benefit.


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## Slamm (Mar 15, 2012)

I've sure had some whoopsy in the logging area, but never had to use a helmet to the point that I broke one. I like the plastic helmets because they hold two other forms of safety devices ready for my immediate use ..... face shield and ear muffs, that combination makes the handiness of the plastic helmets quite attractive to me overall.

I'd say the plastic helmets have proven themselves quite a bit or they wouldn't be used or made anymore. I'm not sure of the whats or wheres, where metal helmets are even used anymore other than forestry fields, but either way its best to have something on your melon or a good crack on the helmet could be a little more serious.

Sam


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## MCW (Mar 16, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Don't worry about us and our antiquated tin hats. It's called "making a choice"...something that we're allowed to do here.
> 
> You can keep wearing _your_ style and we won't make fun of you for looking like Roger Ramjet the Space Cadet.





blsnelling said:


> I don't see where your plastic helmet will provide any more protection than our aluminum ones. They both have similar suspensions.



Hey I'm certainly not making fun of either style of helmet and as Philbert mentioned if they make the safety standards all is good. In my mind though I think they both have benefits. The aluminium helmets would be better at stopping penetrating type force such as a sharp, hard branch at full speed. The plastic helmets would be able to absorb more blunt force and spread it more evenly through both the plastic's flex and the suspension. The force in an aluminium helmet is worn 100% by the suspension and then by your head. Personally I'd feel safe in both styles but would think the plastic helmets would be more comfortable.
I suppose my way of thinking is along the same lines as modern vs. old cars. Many people think that the older more solid cars are safer. Crash testing shows that this is not that case as although tougher the driver wears a lot of the force in an accident whereas newer cars are designed to absorb most of the impact so the driver doesn't have to cop it.
I'd actually really be interested in some hard data from helmet manufacturers. I actually think that the aluminium helmets would come out second best across a wider range of impacts but the plastics would lose with a few as well. A $15 plastic helmet may not win much at all


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## Slamm (Mar 16, 2012)

MCW said:


> Hey I'm certainly not making fun of either style of helmet and as Philbert mentioned if they make the safety standards all is good. In my mind though I think they both have benefits. The aluminium helmets would be better at stopping penetrating type force such as a sharp, hard branch at full speed. The plastic helmets would be able to absorb more blunt force and spread it more evenly through both the plastic's flex and the suspension. The force in an aluminium helmet is worn 100% by the suspension and then by your head. Personally I'd feel safe in both styles but would think the plastic helmets would be more comfortable.
> I suppose my way of thinking is along the same lines as modern vs. old cars. Many people think that the older more solid cars are safer. Crash testing shows that this is not that case as although tougher the driver wears a lot of the force in an accident whereas newer cars are designed to absorb most of the impact so the driver doesn't have to cop it.
> I'd actually really be interested in some hard data from helmet manufacturers. I actually think that the aluminium helmets would come out second best across a wider range of impacts but the plastics would lose with a few as well. A $15 plastic helmet may not win much at all



I was just at a forestry class a few weeks ago and it seemed they were sure pointing out how the plastic ones were better at saving your head than the metal ones, they were showing the shattered plastic helmets and how the guy just walked away or was dinged but not dead. The instructor was stating same as your car analogy that the studies show the quality plastic helmet to be better than metal, just like the newer cars are suppose to fold up and absorb the energy before getting to your head.

I know of 4 guys that are related to our cutters and they all had plastic helmets on and in all cases the plastic helmet shatter and the force to the head was lessoned enough that the guy could walk away ..... dizzy, but walk away. Some of the branches that hit those four were upwards of 6" out of big trees and that one hit on the upper right of his head, it shatter the helmet and between the plastic and suspension pushed his head out of the way instead of just slamming into it. That nano second type of force transfer and absorbtion is crutial to difference in the outcome of the incident.

I'll stick with quality plastic, it's what most all steel workers, construction workers and such wear, there are studies and standards to have apparently shown that plastic is as good or better and its what people who's brains are worth a lot more than mine are wearing, plus as I have stated before they typically are outfitted with two other forms of safety devices for my eyes and ears that allow for instand on and instant off use, which is just as much a safety issue and benefit to saving my head and body as anything.

Sam


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## MCW (Mar 16, 2012)

Well said Sam and I'm not surprised by what you were told  (couldn't rep you either dammit)...


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## blsnelling (Mar 16, 2012)

PARTSWOODCHUCK said:


> Man! Luckliy the limb was nice enough to stay attached to the tree. That makes the whooping A LOT more tolerable, by slowing down gravity.



Actually, that made it worse. That limb didn't just fall. It was leveraged and accelerated by the tree it fell into. Had it broken off, it would have simply fallen. I basically was slapped.


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## brendog84cj8 (Mar 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Never fear! I had full intentions of wearing this hardhat, but I'm now the proud owner of a NOS MacT. A forum member here kindly picked one up for me and shipped it to me. You know who you are. Thanks!!!




Nice Hat. I got one just like it yesterday. I am just a guy with a firewood habit and figured after a few close calls over the years and seeing you take one to the dome it was time for a hat.


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## paccity (Mar 16, 2012)

the thing to take from this is no mater what you wear , it won't do any good if it's not on your melon . i actually wear my tin in the woods even if i'm not cutting. you never know when something is going to drop out of the canopy. and odds are that you'll never see it coming . cheap insurance in my book.


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## madhatte (Mar 16, 2012)

paccity said:


> the thing to take from this is no mater what you wear , it won't do any good if it's not on your melon . i actually wear my tin in the woods even if i'm not cutting. you never know when something is going to drop out of the canopy. and odds are that you'll never see it coming . cheap insurance in my book.



Agreed 100%, and I've followed that philosophy for about 15 years, since I bounced a hemlock top off my dome from about 80 feet up. No harm done but it was a good wake-up call. Plus, everybody looks bad-ass in a tin hat.


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## Philbert (Mar 16, 2012)

MCW said:


> In my mind though I think they both have benefits. . . . . I actually think that the aluminium helmets would come out second best across a wider range of impacts but the plastics would lose with a few as well.





Slamm said:


> . . . it seemed they were sure pointing out how the plastic ones were better at saving your head than the metal ones, . . .



Remember that the standards for these things are a _minimum_; one brand, or material, or style might be much better at protecting you in specific circumstances than another. Nothing might protect you adequately in other circumstances (direct hit by a 10 foot diameter sequoia).

So go with what you prefer and what you will wear. But if it doesn't meet the basic standards, be very wary of it.

Philbert


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## slowp (Mar 16, 2012)

paccity said:


> the thing to take from this is no mater what you wear , it won't do any good if it's not on your melon . i actually wear my tin in the woods even if i'm not cutting. you never know when something is going to drop out of the canopy. and odds are that you'll never see it coming . cheap insurance in my book.



I don't know if a hardhat would have saved me. One time, I was walking in a unit with a logger, and there was the sound of a branch falling. The 5 inch diameter old growth branch impaled itself hard, about 6 inches away from my shoulder. We both gave each other the look of Ruh Roh! We did have on hardhats. 
One needs to be especially protected when walking through a recently opened up stand. All sorts of things get hung up in the tippy tops of leave trees.


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## Philbert (Mar 16, 2012)

slowp said:


> I don't know if a hardhat would have saved me. . . The 5 inch diameter old growth branch impaled itself hard, about 6 inches away from my shoulder. We both gave each other the look of Ruh Roh! We did have on hardhats.



Well, at least your friends would have said, 'She did what she could', instead of, 'If she had only been wearing her hard hat'.

I guess that hikers, and hunters, and any wilderness users are at some risk. But tree cutters probably aggravate the situation by hacking at, or shaking, or cutting trees; dropping things with big thuds; felling trees that pass through other trees' branches; etc. More so than mushroom hunting in your Birkenstocks.

Philbert


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## edisto (Mar 16, 2012)

madhatte said:


> Plus, everybody looks bad-ass in a tin hat.



Except maybe this guy...


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## paccity (Mar 16, 2012)

edisto said:


> Except maybe this guy...



may have no brain, but at least he's got a lid on.


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## branchbuzzer (Mar 16, 2012)

paccity said:


> may have no brain, but at least he's got a lid on.



Hey smart guy, it's the scarecrow that needs the brain! The tin man is short on cardio power.


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## paccity (Mar 16, 2012)

branchbuzzer said:


> Hey smart guy, it's the scarecrow that needs the brain! The tin man is short on cardio power.


 your right. i need the brain.


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## Eric106 (Mar 16, 2012)

madhatte said:


> paccity said:
> 
> 
> > the thing to take from this is no mater what you wear , it won't do any good if it's not on your melon . i actually wear my tin in the woods even if i'm not cutting. you never know when something is going to drop out of the canopy. and odds are that you'll never see it coming . cheap insurance in my book.
> ...



It's interesting what hazards we become sensitized to. I had an uncle that was an avid hunter, camper, gunsmith, target shooter, outdoorsman, etc. and he would never even go for a walk in the woods without a blaze orange hat at the minimum. To him the ever present danger was getting accidentally shot by someone who didn't see you. If you told him he should wear a hard had every time he went in the woods because of falling limbs he would have thought that was silly, who gets hit in the head walking through the woods?



Philbert said:


> ...
> I guess that hikers, and hunters, and any wilderness users are at some risk. But tree cutters probably aggravate the situation by hacking at, or shaking, or cutting trees; dropping things with big thuds; felling trees that pass through other trees' branches; etc. More so than mushroom hunting in your Birkenstocks.



I think that's probably the heart of the issue. Though if Brad wears his new blaze orange hard hat he'll be covered on both accounts.


-Eric


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## blsnelling (Mar 16, 2012)

Eric106 said:


> I think that's probably the heart of the issue. Though if Brad wears his new blaze orange hard hat he'll be covered on both accounts.
> 
> 
> -Eric



:biggrin:


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## Slamm (Mar 16, 2012)

In the forestry class I was in they stated that statistically speaking, the first 1-3 years of a loggers career was the most dangerous, and then the next say 3-15 was pretty minimal, as far as deaths and injuries, and then it skyrocketed back up after around 15ish years due to complacency and thinking that they knew it all.

I'm at around 7 years, so statistically I'm in the safe zone, LOL.

Sam


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## Fish (Mar 16, 2012)

gawd,this turd is still floating????????


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## paccity (Mar 16, 2012)

lotts of corn.:msp_rolleyes:


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## bull2five (Aug 13, 2012)

*Thanks Brad*

I'm glad you're ok Brad and thanks for posting this. I just saw this post and I’m way late in responding.

I have only read the first few pages of this thread but wanted to post this photo. Like some of the other guys on here said, only Brad knows how the tree was leaning. For the poster who showed the red line as an indicator of the lean, I could have taken that picture 90* angle and told you that it was lying on the ground. LMAO

I hope this picture is viewable since I’m not sure how to post photos. I took two small trees from the background which are at the same angle and showed that same line in relationship to the tree Brad was felling. By no means am I saying that the yellow line is correct but more trying to show the guy that posted the red line photo that just because you draw a line does not make it so.

Thanks again Brad for posting this.
View attachment 248409


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## edisto (Aug 14, 2012)

bull2five said:


> I hope this picture is viewable since I’m not sure how to post photos. I took two small trees from the background which are at the same angle and showed that same line in relationship to the tree Brad was felling. By no means am I saying that the yellow line is correct but more trying to show the guy that posted the red line photo that just because you draw a line does not make it so.



The mule cheated. His line was where the tree actually fell.


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## Ndigity26 (Dec 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I nearly bought the farm Saturday afternoon while out testing out the 390XP. I've debated back and forth whether or not to share this. Hopefully, someone can learn from my mistakes.
> 
> First of all, I'm *FAR *from a professional. What frustrates me most, is that I know how to do this right. I know all the mistakes I made and how to avoid them. Yes, it's rather embarrasing.
> 
> ...



Sir that was intense to watch. I'm glad thats all that happened to you, because that was a large branch. I hope your not going to let haste get the better of you again because this looks to be your lucky day.


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## Philip Wheelock (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks, Brad, for having the guts to detail the accident. Much appreciated. There are people who will avoid a really bad day because of this thread. I know I'll be doing a lot more looking up and figuring all the ways things could go wrong.


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## Abflyboy (Dec 9, 2012)

No scolding from me either. I got clobbered on my forestry helmet hard enough to see stars for a few seconds when I was felling a 20" elm. Don't want to imagine what that would have been like without the helmet.

Spit happens and it's good you are around to berate yourself about it.


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## RiverRocket (Jun 1, 2013)

Haven't read all the post..Just the first page, Just wanted to say I'm Glad your alright...Thinking back on all the dumb #### I've done over the years with a chainsaw, It's a wonder I'm Still alive.
I learned allot the hard way...I'm thankful for this site now...I've learned allot here that makes me allot safer now..I never wore a hard hat, but I'm gonna start...

The stupidest mistake I've ever made was while felling a hard leaning big Red Oak and not making the face cut large enough and when the tree started over the hinge closed when the tree was only 1/4 of the way over
Needless to say a huge barber chair just about took my head off...still makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck when i think about it..

Anyway thanks for sharing, and again i'm glad your OK


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## bucknfeller (Jun 1, 2013)

Get well soon Brad.


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## Guido Salvage (Jun 1, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> Get well soon Brad.



You are aware this thread is over a year old?


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## bucknfeller (Jun 1, 2013)

Guido Salvage said:


> You are aware this thread is over a year old?



Yes, quite, thank you.


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## naturelover (Jun 1, 2013)

Eric106 said:


> It's interesting what hazards we become sensitized to. I had an uncle that was an avid hunter, camper, gunsmith, target shooter, outdoorsman, etc. and he would never even go for a walk in the woods without a blaze orange hat at the minimum. To him the ever present danger was getting accidentally shot by someone who didn't see you. If you told him he should wear a hard had every time he went in the woods because of falling limbs he would have thought that was silly, who gets hit in the head walking through the woods?
> 
> -Eric



You know, I almost did this spring just walking through the woods. Had a branch come out of a tree right in front of me. Had it hit me, I'd not be typing this..... :msp_unsure:


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## LowVolt (Jun 1, 2013)

Curious why this thread got stickied.


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## PARTSWOODCHUCK (Jun 1, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> Curious why this thread got stickied.




Even though it's common sense for some of us, this thread is a real good reminder that the saw isn't worth it.


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## RandyMac (Jun 1, 2013)




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## LowVolt (Jun 1, 2013)

PARTSWOODCHUCK said:


> Even though it's common sense for some of us, this thread is a real good reminder that the saw isn't worth it.



I hope that is the reason.


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## Art Vandelay (Jun 1, 2013)

DSS done it.


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## bucknfeller (Jun 1, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> I hope that is the reason.



I doubt it......


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## Gologit (Jun 1, 2013)

I don't know why the thread was stickied but I think it's a good read for anybody who falls trees.

It's not often that we get to see the entire chain of mistakes that leads to a near fatal accident. In this thread we get to see not only the events themselves but the damage they caused to the person who made the mistakes. We also get to see what he learned from his mistakes.

It's a great learning opportunity and an excellent reminder of what not to do.


I think it took a lot of guts for Brad to share his mishap. He's constantly thinking of things that are good for the AS community. This is one of them.


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## blsnelling (Jun 1, 2013)

It's all for the good of the community:hmm3grin2orange::jester:

Thanks Bob.


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## Mastermind (Jun 1, 2013)

Gologit said:


> I don't know why the thread was stickied but I think it's a good read for anybody who falls trees.
> 
> It's not often that we get to see the entire chain of mistakes that leads to a near fatal accident. In this thread we get to see not only the events themselves but the damage they caused to the person who made the mistakes. We also get to see what he learned from his mistakes.
> 
> ...





Yep.......he's the man.


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## bucknfeller (Jun 1, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Yep.......he's the man.



Plus....




Oh, nevermind :msp_biggrin:


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## R1! (Jun 1, 2013)

Holy FACKKK. Im glad your OK.


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## R1! (Jun 1, 2013)

LOL I didnt read the date.
Still glad your ok. Safety equipment is a must peoples!!!!!
Your life!!!!


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## RandyMac (Jun 1, 2013)

R1! said:


> LOL I didnt read the date.
> Still glad your ok. Safety equipment is a must peoples!!!!!
> Your life!!!!



LMAO!!!!

Not being an idiot in the first place is better.


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## R1! (Jun 1, 2013)

View attachment 298171

Buy a modular bandage, elastic pressure bandage and keep it on you, under your helmet or in your pocket when cutting and or felling could save your life.


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## Gologit (Jun 1, 2013)

R1! said:


> LOL I didnt read the date.
> Still glad your ok. Safety equipment is a must peoples!!!!!
> Your life!!!!



Safety equipment is fine but it's no guarantee you won't get hurt by making a mistake like Brad made.

Read the 2dogs quote in RandyMac's signature.


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## R1! (Jun 1, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Safety equipment is fine but it's no guarantee you won't get hurt by making a mistake like Brad made.
> 
> Read the 2dogs quote in RandyMac's signature.



There are, 
Amateurs
Novice
Apprentices
Journeyman
Journeyman with experience = Pros 

They all need safety Gear a proper mindset and some common sense.


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## Cloud IT (Jun 1, 2013)

"The wise man learns from the mistakes of others"

Thanks for sharing. Hopefully someone will read it and it will save their life someday.


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## Eccentric (Jun 2, 2013)

Bumpin' this up as a reminder for folks to be careful...


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## thomas1 (Jun 2, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> LMAO!!!!
> 
> Not being an idiot in the first place is better.



Great advice for all facets of life. :msp_wink:


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## Gologit (Jun 2, 2013)

If a tree falls on your head and you don't hear it, does it make any noise?


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## Mastermind (Jun 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> If a tree falls on your head and you don't hear it, does it make any noise?



Not to you it don't


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## 3000 FPS (Jun 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> If a tree falls on your head and you don't hear it, does it make any noise?



Only the sound of your skull cracking.


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## Eccentric (Jun 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> If a tree falls on your head and you don't hear it, does it make any noise?



Nope. There's just the sound of your saw idling (if it didn't get smashed)...


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## Redoakranch (Jun 2, 2013)

Wow I missed this one a few months ago, glad to see you're alright. A few times I've thought "holy crap why did i do this?" but no major accidents yet. I've ripped my thumb backwards(sounded like a zip-tie), de-skinned my shins, and rode a tree I cut a few times. My Dad had a close call about 2 years ago I'll share.

He was pulling a 40' dead maple on the ground with an old D4(no ROPS, or cage). He put a 25' chain about 5-6 feet up from the roots and attached the other end to the blade. Pulling a downed tree on flat ground sounds safe right???? Well as he was backing toward a cliff on the mesa he was looking behind to see where he was going, avoid cliffs dogs etc. When he turned back around the tree was dead vertical and coming his way fast. The roots had caught on something and the tree came over back on my dad in about 3 seconds. He ended up with a tree on top of the dozer. He was hit in the head, arm and leg. A 6" limb drove it self down between the firewall and the clutch and had one of his arms pinned down and he couldn't get free. So he can't take the dozer out of gear, can't disengage the clutch and he's heading toward a cliff. He ended up finding a small broken limb that he used to pry the big limb off his leg and other arm then he was able to move it just enough to disengage the clutch. He ended up with major bruises and a huge hematoma. Now we always have a second person on the ground when using the heavy iron, even when pulling a downed tree on flat ground.

Thanks for sharing Brad, it takes a lot to share mistakes/accidents but if it helps one person it's worth it.


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## RVALUE (Jun 2, 2013)

Redoakranch said:


> Wow I missed this one a few months ago, glad to see you're alright. A few times I've thought "holy crap why did i do this?" but no major accidents yet. I've ripped my thumb backwards(sounded like a zip-tie), de-skinned my shins, and rode a tree I cut a few times. My Dad had a close call about 2 years ago I'll share.
> 
> He was pulling a 40' dead maple on the ground with an old D4(no ROPS, or cage). He put a 25' chain about 5-6 feet up from the roots and attached the other end to the blade. Pulling a downed tree on flat ground sounds safe right???? Well as he was backing toward a cliff on the mesa he was looking behind to see where he was going, avoid cliffs dogs etc. When he turned back around the tree was dead vertical and coming his way fast. The roots had caught on something and the tree came over back on my dad in about 3 seconds. He ended up with a tree on top of the dozer. He was hit in the head, arm and leg. A 6" limb drove it self down between the firewall and the clutch and had one of his arms pinned down and he couldn't get free. So he can't take the dozer out of gear, can't disengage the clutch and he's heading toward a cliff. He ended up finding a small broken limb that he used to pry the big limb off his leg and other arm then he was able to move it just enough to disengage the clutch. He ended up with major bruises and a huge hematoma. Now we always have a second person on the ground when using the heavy iron, even when pulling a downed tree on flat ground.
> 
> Thanks for sharing Brad, it takes a lot to share mistakes/accidents but if it helps one person it's worth it.




Glad he's ok! 

Sounds similar to situations in which we use a 'sacrificial' chain to stop the forward motion of the tree. When pulled hard, they can fly a long ways toward the force. So a chain to stop it is used.


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## Philip Wheelock (Jun 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> If a tree falls on your head and you don't hear it, does it make any noise?





3000 FPS said:


> Only the sound of your skull cracking.



Pondering this accident report. Sobering.


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## Philbert (Jun 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Safety equipment is fine but it's no guarantee you won't get hurt by making a mistake like Brad made. Read the 2dogs quote in RandyMac's signature.





> A quote from 2dogs
> "I firmly believe in the philosophy that safety is the number one priority in the woods. Having said that I feel that safety starts with the proper mindset and is followed closely, very closely, by the proper skillset. I think there is a tendency to offset poor skills by buying more safety gear."



Granted, but. . . . 

_Part_ of the 'proper mindset' should be to use basic, proven safety gear, and to be open to improvements.

I know that even hard hats / helmets were not warmly embraced by either working trades or hockey players.

Philbert


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## Gologit (Jun 2, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Granted, but. . . .
> 
> _Part_ of the 'proper mindset' should be to use basic, proven safety gear, and to be open to improvements.
> 
> ...



And you do what for a living?


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## Philbert (Jun 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> And you do what for a living?



Safety Guy (no secret - it's in my profile)

Philbert


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## Gologit (Jun 2, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Safety Guy (no secret - it's in my profile)
> 
> Philbert



Aha! :msp_biggrin: Safety guy in the woods?


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## stihlkicken (Jun 2, 2013)

"I wouldna done it like that" said the safety guy from the office. if there is one guy on the crew that is always in the way,has no clue whats really goin on, why does he always end up the safety guy?


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## Dan_in_WI (Jun 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Aha! :msp_biggrin: Safety guy in the woods?



Don't trust him Bob, he's from Minnesota.


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## Gologit (Jun 2, 2013)

stihlkicken said:


> "I wouldna done it like that" said the safety guy from the office. if there is one guy on the crew that is always in the way,has no clue whats really goin on, why does he always end up the safety guy?



Some safety guys are okay. I've worked with a few who really knew what they were doing. If they've had a legitimate working background in the field they usually have enough experience and common sense to do a decent job.

Most of them though remind me of the old war movies where guys would run out onto the battlefield after the shooting stopped and bayonet the wounded.


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## Philbert (Jun 2, 2013)

In case anyone thinks I am 'posing': I'm not a logger. I am not a faller. I don't have the knowledge, skills, or experience that a number of guys on this site have.

Now, will any of you guys admit that you are not safety engineers?

Philbert


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## Mastermind (Jun 2, 2013)

Philbert said:


> In case anyone thinks I am 'posing': I'm not a logger. I am not a faller. I don't have the knowledge, skills, or experience that a number of guys on this site have.
> 
> Now, will any of you guys admit that you are not safety engineers?
> 
> Philbert



I just work on saws. :msp_wink:


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## edisto (Jun 2, 2013)

Philbert said:


> I know that even hard hats / helmets were not warmly embraced by either working trades or hockey players.



My crew leader would always say "Just remember I told you to wear your gear" whenever I started cutting without it...which was always.

Of course, we rappelled in, so no chance of anyone stopping by to write us up...


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## homelitejim (Jun 3, 2013)

Philbert said:


> In case anyone thinks I am 'posing': I'm not a logger. I am not a faller. I don't have the knowledge, skills, or experience that a number of guys on this site have.
> 
> Now, will any of you guys admit that you are not safety engineers?
> 
> Philbert



I am no safety engineer but I do have a healthy fear of death from above, keeps me aleart and keeps me aware of my limitations. Problem is if the man upstairs wants to send you a message you will not forget or call you home, either way there is no controlling act of God.


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## lmbrman (Jun 3, 2013)

Philbert said:


> In case anyone thinks I am 'posing': I'm not a logger. Philbert



I doubt anyone thought you were posing. 

-dave


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## StihlKiwi (Jun 3, 2013)

stihlkicken said:


> "I wouldna done it like that" said the safety guy from the office. if there is one guy on the crew that is always in the way,has no clue whats really goin on, why does he always end up the safety guy?



That happens 'cos the more time he spends filling out paperwork, the less time he spends doing something that could hurt himself or others


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## Gologit (Jun 3, 2013)

Philbert said:


> In case anyone thinks I am 'posing': I'm not a logger. I am not a faller. I don't have the knowledge, skills, or experience that a number of guys on this site have.
> 
> Now, will any of you guys admit that you are not safety engineers?
> 
> Philbert



Relax, nobody is calling you a poser.

And I readily admit I'm not a safety engineer. In the context of logging safety, what exactly are safety engineers doing to make things safer for us knuckle draggers out there in the woods?

Other than nagging us about our dented hardhats and writing up accident reports that usually blame whoever got injured or killed for the entire mishap, what exactly are your peers doing for us?

I'm not bagging on you here. I'm honestly curious about this.


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## Philbert (Jun 3, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Relax, . . .



No offense was taken. Just setting up for the next response, which is this. Just as most guys will recognize that having a chainsaw does not make me a logger, having a copy of OSHA regulations does not make one a safety expert.



Gologit said:


> And I readily admit I'm not a safety engineer. In the context of logging safety, what exactly are safety engineers doing to make things safer for us knuckle draggers out there in the woods?



I am not a logging safety expert; I am a general workplace safety engineer who happened to get involved with chainsaws and storm cleanup activities, and had to learn about them, including the safety issues. Without a doubt there are safety professionals with USFS, timber companies, etc. with more specific experience in this area. In our state, we have one OSHA consultation guy who works full time in this area.



Gologit said:


> Other than nagging us about our dented hardhats and writing up accident reports that usually blame whoever got injured or killed for the entire mishap, what exactly are your peers doing for us?



Safety is about '_Risk_'. Nothing is '_Safe_' or '_Unsafe_' in a clear, one-side-of-a-black-line-or-the-other sense. I know that some people will use these terms in different ways.

Here's some more 'flame-bait': How is that some 'safety guy' can think that he/she knows more about 'safety' that the guy/gal who does that job every day? Here's an example. I don't ride motorcycles. But I can look at motorcycle incident reports and know that helmets are protective. In fact, when I was working with some traffic data, it got to the point where I could look at just a couple of boxes (seatbelt use, alcohol consumption, helmet use, etc.) and predict what the rest of the report said with 80% accuracy. It might not tell me exactly what caused that specific motorist or motorcyclist to lose control, but I could identify key components that dramatically affected the outcome. We focus on those things.

Note that I said '_incident_ reports', not '_accident_ reports'. We don't like the term 'accident'. While an event may not have been 'intentional', it might be completely predictable when viewed from a larger perspective.

Back to trees. When I see a report in the news about a fatality and it describes a guy in cut-off shorts, open toed shoes, a consumer chainsaw, crying relatives, and something that went 'wrong', we both know that the words, 'accident', 'unpredictable', 'unforeseen', 'act of God', etc., are inappropriate. The event and consequences are entirely foreseeable when viewed from the larger perspective.

Back to 'risk'. I will use my friend Gary's (not an A.S. member) definition of 'safety' (my underlines):


> Safety is the recognition and control of hazards to an acceptable level of risk.



One guy may have a personal definition of what 'acceptable level' means to him. If he is a young guy with limited experience, his definition is probably different than someone who has seen some scary or nasty things. A company may have another definition. In fact, many companies have multiple definitions: the one that they write down and the one they enforce. So when edisto comments on a supervisor who only gives lip service to the written definition (at least that is how I read the post) instead of telling him, ' _You wear your PPE or you don't work here'_, it is not a surprise.

Since there is so much variation on what is acceptable, employers, associations, insurance companies, government agencies, etc. come up with general rules, regulations, guidelines, etc. to frame this. Like the regulations that your line level safety guys and supervisors nag you to follow, even when they don't seem so important to some guys.

Philbert


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## Eccentric (Jun 3, 2013)

This is a very valuable thread here. Somebody should make it a 'stickie'.


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## bucknfeller (Jun 3, 2013)

Seems to me it's been stickied atleast twice before, for some reason it gets unstuck every time. 

I think the glue they are using is water soluble... :msp_sneaky:


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## bucknfeller (Jun 3, 2013)

I'm not a safety engineer, and I'm not a logger. In my experience, with construction jobs and such, if there is a person on the job most likely to be injured, it is usually the safety guy. He's usually easy to pick out, he'll be the one wondering around aimlessly, not doing anything constructive, and in the way more often than not.


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## roundhead (Jun 3, 2013)

wow Brad...thanks for sharing this. very easy to overlook these things. Please get a helmet because we need your brains here on the site. Big help to all of us. Glad you are ok
Stewart


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## homelitejim (Jun 3, 2013)

roundhead said:


> wow Brad...thanks for sharing this. very easy to overlook these things. Please get a helmet because we need your brains here on the site. Big help to all of us. Glad you are ok
> Stewart



I don't remember if it were this thread or another on his adventures in finding a good hard hat. I used to cut with gloves and a good pair of steel toed boots, after reading this when it came out you will not see me standing under a tree of any size with a saw and no hard hat on. I have several to choose from and keep one in every vehicle so I have no excuse.


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## R1! (Jun 3, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> I'm not a safety engineer, and I'm not a logger. In my experience, with construction jobs and such, if there is a person on the job most likely to be injured, it is usually the safety guy. He's usually easy to pick out, he'll be the one wondering around aimlessly, not doing anything constructive, and in the way more often than not.



You guys are brutal.
Safety first is the motto in almost every industry, Aircraft to BBQs to Erasers.


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## edisto (Jun 3, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Here's some more 'flame-bait': How is that some 'safety guy' can think that he/she knows more about 'safety' that the guy/gal who does that job every day? Here's an example. I don't ride motorcycles. But I can look at motorcycle incident reports and know that helmets are protective. In fact, when I was working with some traffic data, it got to the point where I could look at just a couple of boxes (seatbelt use, alcohol consumption, helmet use, etc.) and predict what the rest of the report said with 80% accuracy. It might not tell me exactly what caused that specific motorist or motorcyclist to lose control, but I could identify key components that dramatically affected the outcome. We focus on those things.



I know that you are using an example that everyone can understand, but I don't think it gets your point across, because one doesn't need to look at accident reports to come to the realization that helmets and seatbelts are protective, and that consuming alcohol before driving is a bad idea.

I think that the problem that experienced people have with safety guys is that they don't get anything out of them that they don't already know, and that they tell you what an acceptable risk is based on averages (out of necessity) that tend not to apply to any individual on the job site. Those averages find the middle ground between the guys that would hurt themselves with a rubber ball, and the guys that can do the impossible every day without ever posing a danger to themselves or others.

That's why your interpretation:



Philbert said:


> So when edisto comments on a supervisor who only gives lip service to the written definition (at least that is how I read the post) instead of telling him, ' _You wear your PPE or you don't work here'_, it is not a surprise.



Is off the mark. Our crew leader knew that I could get a helipad cut as fast as 2 other guys, without pinching a bar, burning a saw, or running back to him asking what to do about a tree that was hung up. The part I left out was that there were other guys on the crew that he wouldn't let anywhere near a saw without all of their gear. All he was doing was showing that he had confidence that I could determine what acceptable risk was for myself.

In the specific instance that spawned this Velcro thread (as has been pointed out previously) not having a helmet was not the issue, and concluding that wearing a helmet is the solution is, in my view, more dangerous than deciding not to wear a helmet.

That said, companies are responsible for creating a safe work environment, and the only way to do that is to look at the data, which means that requirements have to be based on the nonexistent "Joe Average". It's hard to argue against erring on the side of safety. Incident reports can be a gold mine...I'd often help our helicopter engineer, and finding out from him, and the reports he let me read, what failures led to a crash was invaluable information in terms of maintaining the machine. In an ideal world, we could share those reports, and let individuals decide how to use the information they contained. Of course, in an ideal world, we wouldn't have lawyers.


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## bucknfeller (Jun 3, 2013)

R1! said:


> You guys are brutal.
> Safety first is the motto in almost every industry, Aircraft to BBQs to Erasers.



Sure, and what better way to demonstrate that than to put a man on the job who wants to blabber off stats. about acceptable risk, while always being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  

You know, that's why the back up alarm was invented, to keep the safety guy safe. Everyone else knows how to be aware of the situation, and GTFO of the way.


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## redbrass_ca (Jun 3, 2013)

*Guy's don't get complacent out there!!!*

Hi Brad,

Thanks for sharing this video. It is truly an eye opener. Thank god your OK and you live to tell the tale. I can only say that most of us have been complacent at one time or another while playing with power tools. I guess the key thing to remember it that if you loose the outcome don't loose the lesson.

Redbrass_ca


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## Philbert (Jun 3, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> Sure, and what better way to demonstrate that than to put a man on the job who wants to blabber off stats. about acceptable risk, while always being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You know, that's why the back up alarm was invented, to keep the safety guy safe. Everyone else knows how to be aware of the situation, and GTFO of the way.



Well, of course, I know bucknfeller could not be talking about me, because I have never been on one of his work sites. But the stats are an interesting point when guys moan about high work comp rates. It's not just a bunch of insurance guys who sit around in a room deciding to pick on loggers this week. It is because logging and commercial fishing have the highest rates of fatalities in the US. If you guys really knew how to GTFO of the way, you might be paying rates closer to florists.

It also raises the differences between '_safety_' and '_luck_'. I used a chainsaw off and on for 30 some years before I really learned anything about chainsaw safety. I never got cut. But now I realize that a lot of that was due to luck - and you all know how reliable that can be.

Guys tell me, "_I've been doing this for . . . years_ ", or, "_My father and grandfather did it this way and never . . ._", etc. First, I am glad you did not get hurt. But that is a pretty limited sample. Even, "_all the guys I know_" is a relatively small number, when 20,000 to 40,000 people check into emergency rooms in the US every year with chainsaw-related injuries*.

*These are only the ones reported. It also does not include guys who use a chainsaw to cut a tree and are crushed by the tree. That would be a tree-related injury according to how they classify ER reports. Back-up alarms are also a separate category.

I am not discounting the value of experience in working safe. In any field. We rely a lot on the experienced guys (and gals) to help us understand root causes, and to develop control measures. But experience only accumulates in the survivors, and that is a lousy way to teach/learn safe work practices. An experienced guy may be a good worker but a lousy teacher. Newer guys may have to survive many 'near-miss' events to understand hazards, or they may never understand that there are other ways of doing things until it is too late. And trial and error learning can be inefficient and dangerous, especially with things like trees and work sites that can have so many variations.

A safe (versus luck-based) approach uses multiple layers:
- Engineering Controls - design of saws, chains, harvesters, etc.
- Work Practices - methods, training, planning, etc.
- Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) - boots, chaps, gloves, helmets, glasses, ear plugs, etc.

Doesn't mean that you can't be lucky. Just gives you a back up plan when the unexpected happens or the luck runs thin. Brad wearing a helmet (post that started this thread) would not have prevented that tree from smacking him, it would have just lessened the impact. A few inches either way, and it could have meant the difference between life and death.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jun 3, 2013)

edisto said:


> I think that the problem that experienced people have with safety guys is that they don't get anything out of them that they don't already know, and that they tell you what an acceptable risk is based on averages (out of necessity) that tend not to apply to any individual on the job site. . . . . That's why your interpretation: . . .Is off the mark.



Edisto, Thanks for your input and clarifying your post. I think you know what I was referring to: companies who say one thing and provide incentives to ignore them. At the lowest level, 'safety guys' have to run around to enforce compliance in those situations, or work with folks who don't really understand the hazards. This applies to all lines of work. But if all they are doing is citing regulations, they are not really filling the whole safety role.

You are right about general safety 'rules'. They are typically based on past experiences and anticipated situations. There will always be exceptional situations which may require a non-traditional approach, after a careful review of potential hazards. This should be a situation where you can work through a specific plan with a reasonable safety person on site. But that is different than ignoring safety fundamentals or taking a let's-try-this-and-hope-for-the-best approach, especially on an on-going basis.



edisto said:


> In the specific instance that spawned this Velcro thread (as has been pointed out previously) not having a helmet was not the issue, and concluding that wearing a helmet is the solution is, in my view, more dangerous than deciding not to wear a helmet.



Agreed that wearing a helmet would not have prevented the incident. It is just one of those layers that help when things do not go as planned. Because head injuries are quite common in logging/tree work, it is just one of those things we promote as a basic part of the work.



edisto said:


> That said, companies are responsible for creating a safe work environment, . . . It's hard to argue against erring on the side of safety. Incident reports can be a gold mine. . .



We will not prevent every injury, but we should try to learn and not repeat mistakes where we can. I try to understand the rationale for every standard or regulation I am asked to enforce, and I try to learn as much about the jobs as I can from the employees doing the work.

Philbert


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## Hedgerow (Jun 3, 2013)

Does this mean I have to quit juggling chainsaws???
:doubt:


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## bucknfeller (Jun 3, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> Does this mean I have to quit juggling chainsaws???
> :doubt:



Well, as long as you wear your gloves, hardhat, and chaps... :msp_rolleyes:


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## RandyMac (Jun 3, 2013)

Is this the new bacon thread?
just bought some thick sliced peppered bacon, I'm headed for kitchen.


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## Trx250r180 (Jun 3, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Is this the new bacon thread?
> just bought some thick sliced peppered bacon, I'm headed for kitchen.



got any lettuce and tomato to go with ?


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## Philbert (Jun 3, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> Does this mean I have to quit juggling chainsaws???



I saw that guy live. At least he was live then - on a beach near Santa Monica.

Also some slow motion videos on You Tube.

Philbert


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## lmbrman (Jun 3, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Is this the new bacon thread?
> just bought some thick sliced peppered bacon, I'm headed for kitchen.



I like bacon- this is the BAKING thread


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## sgrizz (Jun 3, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Is this the new bacon thread?
> just bought some thick sliced peppered bacon, I'm headed for kitchen.



Pics of the peppered bacon please randy or it didnt happen.:msp_biggrin:


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## Mastermind (Jun 3, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Is this the new bacon thread?
> just bought some thick sliced peppered bacon, I'm headed for kitchen.



It just keeps getting better around here.


----------



## Hedgerow (Jun 3, 2013)

sgrizz said:


> Pics of the peppered bacon please randy or it didnt happen.:msp_biggrin:



I think "peppered bacon" is Cali slang for "pall mall non filters"...
Randy can't cook...


----------



## RandyMac (Jun 3, 2013)




----------



## Hedgerow (Jun 3, 2013)

RandyMac said:


>



Just as I suspected...
Un cooked bacon...


----------



## Cedarkerf (Jun 3, 2013)

Randy are you bringing some of that to the PNW GTG it looks yummy


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## LowVolt (Jun 3, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> got any lettuce and tomato to go with ?



Hard to beat a fresh BLT!!!!


----------



## RandyMac (Jun 3, 2013)

Cedarkerf said:


> Randy are you bringing some of that to the PNW GTG it looks yummy



Yes and we will hide out and eat it all.


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## slowp (Jun 3, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Yes and we will hide out and eat it all.



The Used Dog will track you down. He has a good nose for finding grease. Har!!
View attachment 298497


Beware this well trained grease tracker!


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## Philbert (Jun 3, 2013)

Don't think that I don't see what you guys are trying to do here. 
Let's please get this thread back on track: Don't get complacent out there - _even with bacon_!!!

Bacon and Food Safety | USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service


Philbert


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## thomas1 (Jun 3, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Is this the new bacon thread?
> just bought some thick sliced peppered bacon, I'm headed for kitchen.



Make sure you don't put water on a grease fire, I've heard that baking soda will smother the flames. 

You can never be too careful ya know. :msp_wink:


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## RandyMac (Jun 3, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Make sure you don't put water on a grease fire, I've heard that baking soda will smother the flames.
> 
> You can never be too careful ya know. :msp_wink:



Grab six bull-chokers and get out of my sight.


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## Metals406 (Jun 3, 2013)

slowp said:


> The Used Dog will track you down. He has a good nose for finding grease. Har!!
> View attachment 298497
> 
> 
> Beware this well trained grease tracker!



Love that dog! What a good boy he is. :msp_wub:


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## Gologit (Jun 3, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Love that dog! What a good boy he is. :msp_wub:



Yup. That dog gets around...here he is in California:


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## thomas1 (Jun 3, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Grab six bull-chokers and get out of my sight.



Just let me grab my Kevlar gloves, back brace, diving helmet, respirator, welding mask, fire suit, hip waders, mouth guard, steel-toed drywall stilts, ear muffs, snowshoes, colostomy bag.....


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## slowp (Jun 3, 2013)

Here he is in Montanny. He couldn't seem to get over the jet lag there so slept a lot. 


View attachment 298540


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## Hedgerow (Jun 3, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Just let me grab my Kevlar gloves, back brace, diving helmet, respirator, welding mask, fire suit, hip waders, mouth guard, steel-toed drywall stilts, ear muffs, snowshoes, colostomy bag.....



You forgot you chaps, so it's pack yer sh1t up, and head to the house time for you mr polar bear...


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## Gologit (Jun 3, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Just let me grab my Kevlar gloves, back brace, diving helmet, respirator, welding mask, fire suit, hip waders, mouth guard, steel-toed drywall stilts, ear muffs, snowshoes, colostomy bag.....



...and head to the landing. Give your time to the loader man. Catch the next truck to town.

Any questions...ask RandyMac.


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## thomas1 (Jun 3, 2013)

Gologit said:


> ...and head to the landing. Give your time to the loader man. Catch the next truck to town.
> 
> Any questions...ask RandyMac.



A loader? That sounds dangerous.


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## thomas1 (Jun 3, 2013)

And hitchhiking sounds even more so. Jeez, you logger types are reckless.


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## Hedgerow (Jun 3, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> A loader? That sounds dangerous.



It is...
Way dangerous....
Extreme man.... 
Extreme....


----------



## thomas1 (Jun 3, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> It is...
> Way dangerous....
> Extreme man....
> Extreme....



I get chills just thinking about it.


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 4, 2013)

Some of this thread is missing........

:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Some of this thread is missing........
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange:



ahh what goods a thread without a needle here and there :sword:


----------



## Hedgerow (Jun 4, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> ahh what goods a thread without a needle here and there :sword:



Awe crap...
I didn't even get to read through it before it got nuked...
:msp_unsure:


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## Mastermind (Jun 4, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> ahh what goods a thread without a needle here and there :sword:



Your 660 is coming home. It's a mild woods port........should be perfect for big stuff and milling.


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## Trx250r180 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Your 660 is coming home. It's a mild woods port........should be perfect for big stuff and milling.



i got some butt cuts of cedar i need to rip in half the long way to move ,only 4 ft across or so ,ill find some big stuff later to test it better in :msp_wink:


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## Mastermind (Jun 4, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> i got some butt cuts of cedar i need to rip in half the long way to move ,only 4 ft across or so ,ill find some big stuff later to test it better in :msp_wink:



I'm in it to win it as they say.......if the crank doesn't last send it back and we'll take it back down and post more pics of the carnage in that same thread. We can get any parts we need to put it back right.


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## thomas1 (Jun 4, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Some of this thread is missing........
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange:



What was done here, I see it.


----------



## exSW (Jun 4, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Don't think that I don't see what you guys are trying to do here.
> Let's please get this thread back on track: Don't get complacent out there - _even with bacon_!!!
> 
> Bacon and Food Safety | USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service
> ...


Finally a safety guy that gets it!I work with clueless Corporate safety koolaid drinkers every day"all accidents and injuries are preventable"horsesh!t.Anyone who's worked in high risk(as I have my whole life)knows that freak of nature stuff happens.What he is talking about is the percentages and guys that think the odds don't count against them because they are "good".We've all seen the guy with 10,000 dollars worth of PPE and a ten cent brain the problem for us "Pros"is guarding against the .10 cent days.If you walk out in a pasture that Mama cow with a new calf doesn't know if you are the Urban Cowboy or Larry Mahan and don't care.Neither does a tree,a chainsaw,a locomotive,a bridge beam or any of the other stuff that people pay you to work with to assume risk that they don't care to take.


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## Hddnis (Jun 4, 2013)

exSW said:


> Finally a safety guy that gets it!I work with clueless Corporate safety koolaid drinkers every day"all accidents and injuries are preventable"horsesh!t.Anyone who's worked in high risk(as I have my whole life)knows that freak of nature stuff happens.What he is talking about is the percentages and guys that think the odds don't count against them because they are "good".We've all seen the guy with 10,000 dollars worth of PPE and a ten cent brain the problem for us "Pros"is guarding against the .10 cent days.If you walk out in a pasture that Mama cow with a new calf doesn't know if you are the Urban Cowboy or Larry Mahan and don't care.Neither does a tree,a chainsaw,a locomotive,a bridge beam or any of the other stuff that people pay you to work with to assume risk that they don't care to take.




The longer you get away with it the more likely you are to get hurt. The chance compounds every time you beat it is what I was told by a statstitician (sp) once.

Now, I don't believe that fully, because care and skill and caution go a very long way to keep a person and those around them safe and there are too many people who beat all the so called odds and live to a ripe old age in every profession. 



Mr. HE


----------



## Gologit (Jun 4, 2013)

Hddnis said:


> The longer you get away with it the more likely you are to get hurt. The chance compounds every time you beat it is what I was told by a statstitician (sp) once.
> 
> Now, I don't believe that fully, because care and skill and caution go a very long way to keep a person and those around them safe and there are too many people who beat all the so called odds and live to a ripe old age in every profession.
> 
> ...



Yup. Living long enough to get old in this business usually means you were good. And lucky, too.


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## Dennis Cahoon (Jun 4, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Yup. Living long enough to get old in this business usually means you were good. And lucky, too.




Good.....Hahahahahaha! 

It's always better to be "lucky" than good!!!!!!


----------



## Gologit (Jun 4, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Good.....Hahahahahaha!
> 
> It's always better to be "lucky" than good!!!!!!



You still have that embossed on your business cards?

We were talking about you the other day. There were three or four of us and between us all nobody could come with anything positive and complimentary about you. We talked a long time, too.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Jun 4, 2013)

Gologit said:


> You still have that embossed on your business cards?
> 
> We were talking about you the other day. There were three or four of us and between us all nobody could come with anything positive and complimentary about you. We talked a long time, too.



.....stop being so negitive Bob!......you know the older a logger "gets", the better they "were"!......Hahahahahaha!


----------



## Gologit (Jun 4, 2013)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> .....stop being so negitive Bob!......you know the older a logger "gets", the better they "were"!......Hahahahahaha!



Darn right. We got more logging done at Miner's in Oroville than ever got done in the woods.


----------



## slowp (Jun 5, 2013)

What they came up after an investigation.

Mount Rainier makes changes after ranger's deadly fall | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News


----------



## Slade McCuiston (Jun 24, 2013)

Watching that video made me re-live some of the close calls that I have had... I grew up on a family farm in KY. I didn't know what PPE was. I currently don't own a helmet. I'm changing that. After talking with my SO, I'm ordering a Husqvarna ProForest Chainsaw Helmet System. If it keeps saw chips out of my eyes, it's worth the 40 bucks. I fully intend on purchasing chaps and more PPE fairly soon as money permits.


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## woodenboater (Sep 24, 2013)

AS newb here. I'm as far as page 16 but thought it worth bringing up but not sure if it's been mentioned yet. I'd highly recommend going to a concussion/sports injury specialist and having baseline testing done so they can track any changes. I've tried it and damn, it was kinda tough.

I haven't watched the video yet (will do when I screw up the courage) but this has been a VERY informative thread so thanks for putting it front and centre.


WB


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## Locust Cutter (Sep 24, 2013)

Holy Hell Brad!!! I'm glad you're still alive! I have mis-read a few but luckily saw it before it was too late. Dad dropped on awhile back and ruined the 20" bar we had on his 039 when the tree came back on him. I was servicing saws a little ways off and saw it starting to go the wrong way, but couldn't yell loud enough. I ended up running over and grabbing him. It wasn't nearly as big, but it was still about a 45" tree and landed exactly where he had been. It was a pretty big wake-up call for the both of us. Unfortunately it's easy to get complacent when you've built up a bit of confidence and experience. I'm gad you made it out ok. Hair and chainsaw bars are minor compared to being buried...


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## Joe Kidd (Sep 24, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Almost retired?



When's the big day? Got your mancave built?


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## Gologit (Sep 24, 2013)

Joe Kidd said:


> When's the big day? Got your mancave built?



LOL...I retired four times already...and that was just _this_ year. I turn down, and pass on to the other guys, more work than I take and that's got to be _some_ kind of progress.

Gotta say though, when one of those really nice falling jobs comes along...good timber, good ground, short commute, and decent money, it's pretty hard to say no.


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## Locust Cutter (Sep 24, 2013)

Working Men don't ever quit, they simply get more selective about their ambitions...


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## tolman_paul (Sep 24, 2013)

Hddnis said:


> The longer you get away with it the more likely you are to get hurt. The chance compounds every time you beat it is what I was told by a statstitician (sp) once.
> 
> Now, I don't believe that fully, because care and skill and caution go a very long way to keep a person and those around them safe and there are too many people who beat all the so called odds and live to a ripe old age in every profession.
> 
> ...



I don't really believe on the odds catching up with you thing. The key is to realize that every time you go out in the woods with a saw there are hazards present. The key is to minimize the things you have control over, i.e. wearing proper ppe that is in good shape, maintaining your saw and replacing damaged parts, and giving your full attention to the hazards at hand.

Just as important as the equipment, and really moreso is being able to assertain the hazards in the field and mitigating what you can. When you're new then luck plays a hand as you don't know what can or can't kill you. When you've got enough experience to know what to look out for, the key is realizing when you come upon something you haven't had to deal with before, and even more important, when things change you re-evaluate the hazards. Typically when an old hand gets hurt its because something changes but instead of stopping and taking 10-20 minutes to evaluate the hazard and how to mitigate it, he just plows right ahead and gets bit.


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## Gologit (Sep 24, 2013)

tolman_paul said:


> Typically when an old hand gets hurt its because something changes but instead of stopping and taking 10-20 minutes to evaluate the hazard and how to mitigate it, he just plows right ahead and gets bit.



Typically? Bull. Occasionally? Maybe. But typically? No way.

If you're cutting an old fir snag, say 150 feet tall, and it has a lot of rotten limbs that could break off, fall down, and bonk you on the head you spend a lot of time looking up...or you should anyway. 

But, knowing that danger is above you, you go ahead and cut anyway. That's your job and you damn well better do it. Or _don't_ do it and go home because you probably won't have a job anymore. But somebody is going to cut that tree.
Those rotten brittle limbs and the fact that they can fall is part of the risk you assume. It's a very common situation and the risk, although constant, isn't unusual. You sized the tree up, realized the risk, accepted it and cut the tree. That's the job.

But if a faller took "10-20 minutes to evaluate the hazard" there still wouldn't be any way to mitigate it. You cut, you be aware of the hazards, you look up, and you stay light on your feet and ready to move.

No old timer that I know, and I know a few, who made a career out of working in the woods will just "plow right ahead" without being very aware of his risks. And you know what? They still get hurt occasionally through no fault of their own. Sometimes they get killed.

You cannot defend yourself against every possible dangerous thing that can happen. Evaluate all you want. Mitigate whenever you can. It might help but it's sure no cure.

But don't ever make the mistake of thinking that every injury or every fatality is somebody's fault. Occasionally whatever entity that decides such things unbuttons it's pants and, laughing, pisses all over the pillar of science. 

I'm not saying that loggers don't make mistakes. They do. And some don't survive their mistakes. But sometimes things just _happen._


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 24, 2013)

very well said Bob. I ain't looked at a tree 20 minutes in my life, they don't stick around that long. that said, wood cutters are not loggers and shouldn't hesitate to leave one alone if they don't think they are safe to cut it. like loggit said, it is our job to take risk but not everyone's job.


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## blsnelling (Jan 16, 2014)

OK, someone had to remind me to fix this link too, lol.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 16, 2014)

I was wondering if you were gonna repost this thread lol


Sent from my Autotune Carb


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## bryanr2 (Jan 16, 2014)

You're a good sport Brad.


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## bryanr2 (Jan 16, 2014)

37 pages- this'll give the Newbs something to read!


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## dl5205 (Jul 20, 2014)

bump


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## stihl sawing (Jul 20, 2014)

dl5205 said:


> bump


opcorn:


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## woodeneye (Jul 20, 2014)

Man, I'm wearing my hard hat from now on... Glad you're still kickin' Brad!


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## Mastermind (Jul 20, 2014)

stihl sawing said:


> opcorn:




Are you expecting trouble.


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## stihl sawing (Jul 20, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Are you expecting trouble.


Does a bear mess in da woods.


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## Mastermind (Jul 20, 2014)

stihl sawing said:


> Does a bear mess in da woods.



I'd remove the problem rather than try to change the tide........but that's just me.


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## old guy (Jul 20, 2014)

It's been 50 years but I well remember what those things sound like clanging off the aluminum hat and I remember lookin up just in time to catch one on the saw and fling it to the side.

John


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## bryanr2 (Jul 21, 2014)

Oh this is gonna be good!opcorn: It's funny as I was watching a "falling" video yesterday I was thinking how quickly we can forget life experiences and the importance of PPE. This thread popped up in my head. (no pun intended) For what it's worth, I dont own any (keep blowing my money on saws), I have some on my shopping cart at Baileys though. My worst chainsaw injury was taking a saw across my foot, it was too wet to cut and I shouldnt have been using my foot to hold the log. Dam toe still hurts everytime the weather changes. My Kari had just told me to be "careful" as she walked in. I snickered and said "do you know how long I have been running a saw?" 5 min on the dot, the boot was shredded, my sock was soaked in blood, and I was hobblin thru the door yelling for my brother. Yall should have seen the "told ya so" look on my little lady. 2 trips to the ER- one for stitches and one for when I didnt listen about no shoes and went back to work 3 days later. Got an infection that near cost me my foot. 8 weeks out of work (no money) and a staggering ER bill.


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## farmrboy (Jul 21, 2014)

All it takes is a small lapse in judgment to change your life. I haven't had any accidents with a saw yet. Been running one for over 30 yrs. But, I rolled a tractor on Memorial Day weekend of 2012. I was moving round bales off a field and turned on a hill with a bale too high in the air. A rear tire landed on my lower back. Pelvis was split in half, 3 broken vertebrae, and I tore the muscles off the front of my pelvis when I pulled myself out from under the rear tire. My phone was in the house, so I had to wait for wifey to come home and find me. The muscle damage didn't heal right and will bother me for the rest of my days, and I can tell when the weather is going to change because the hardware holding me together hurts like hell. Everybody says "It was an accident." But if I would have had my brain in gear, it never would have happened.


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## Matt81 (Jul 21, 2014)

farmrboy said:


> All it takes is a small lapse in judgment to change your life. I haven't had any accidents with a saw yet. Been running one for over 30 yrs. But, I rolled a tractor on Memorial Day weekend of 2012. I was moving round bales off a field and turned on a hill with a bale too high in the air. A rear tire landed on my lower back. Pelvis was split in half, 3 broken vertebrae, and I tore the muscles off the front of my pelvis when I pulled myself out from under the rear tire. My phone was in the house, so I had to wait for wifey to come home and find me. The muscle damage didn't heal right and will bother me for the rest of my days, and I can tell when the weather is going to change because the hardware holding me together hurts like hell. Everybody says "It was an accident." But if I would have had my brain in gear, it never would have happened.



Back before i got into tree work i was doing landscaping and construction. We won a contract to do all the landscaping and fencing for a new 1.5 million liter water supply tank that was being built to be used as a backup supply for when the mains needed to be shut off for work. Anyway, one of the last days we were there, the construction company who built the tank, was putting topsoil back down over the hillside and their most experienced truck driver who was only a month from retirement forgot what he was doing and put the tipper up to dump his load but he was facing more across the hill than facing up....... yep the tipper went up and the truck went over. The cab hit his last pile of soil and the truck twisted the chassis right behind the cab. Truck was only weeks old and was a throw away. Thankfully he was unharmed, but they did make him take an early retirement.

There are many work situations, not only tree work, that are very dangerous places to be. People who are in these environments often know the right procedures and right PPE and so on. However in this mix is the fact that we are human. We make mistakes, no matter how many times we have done something before there is always the potential to stuff it up. We forget things. Forgetting the milk and bread may be a pain but it is not life threatening (note: may be life threatening after telling your wife you forgot.... )

As Brad will I'm sure testify, not wearing a helmet, forgetting to look up, and forgetting to let go of the saw and back off, is however a lot more relevant in this situation.
Don't fell trees alone. Wear the PPE.....Always. The one time you don't wear the helmet because you are complaining it is too hot or whatever, is the time that persistent bugger Murphy will come and visit. Don't take shortcuts.
Also no matter how nice a saw is ported or otherwise, if it gets pinched in the cut and the tree is falling, let go of the saw and save your ass! It is only a saw. On the plus side, if it gets damaged you can always repair it or buy another!
I have had many "incidents" over the years working with trees. Only through following good working procedures and being consistent and vigilant have i been fortunate to not have been hurt seriously. It has the potential to happen to anyone.


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## Mike from Maine (Jul 21, 2014)

Could have been 40% worse.


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## bcaarms (Jul 21, 2014)

Excellent thread Brad. I remember when you posted it. From time to time when its hot and I really don't feel like walking all the way over to my hard hat and chaps, I think about this thread. Not about all the bad things I have witnessed or read about. I think about this site and the people on here. I appreciate the professionals on here that wear their PPE. It might not be the factor that keeps one safe. But second chances come around more often to those with both the wisdom of working in this field and wearing of their PPE.


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## bucknfeller (Jul 22, 2014)

Bump.


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## Metalmanpro (Jul 23, 2014)

Glad you're ok. Life has no resets. I started out with a stihl forestry helmet, until I got thrown by some storm damage. The stihl helmet had no chin strap, so when I came to, I found it way away from me. It was scuffed and split where I got hit from behind. Now I use a Pacific Kevlar helmet and keep the strap buckled. The saw never bound. The cut didn't open or close in any way that was suspicious. At least not that I remember. The wood looked secure and locked in place, but the cut I made was like tripping the pan on a steel foothold trap. I'm more wary now, and I'm sure you'll be too.


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## Mike from Maine (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm going to warn you all one more time. Wear your PPE.


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## RandyMac (Jul 26, 2014)

"Stupid is as stupid does"
Forrest Gump


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## wyk (Jul 26, 2014)

Whenever something like this comes up and the person gets away with their life, people seem to be keen to say such things as "God was looking over you", or "You must have a guardian angel" , or "Saved by the grace of God" etc etc. As if God was in the business of promoting incompetence. If the angels were looking after you and they allowed you to take a good hiding, and Brad did get quite a smack down not unlike what we see here on AS often enough, it would seem far more likely to me that they were sending a message more than simply preventing a fatal disaster. I wonder if Brad got the message.


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## Philbert (Jul 26, 2014)

There's a long joke I could tell about angels, etc. I'll change it slightly and shorten it for you. 

After the forester dies and gets to the pearly gates, he angerly complains to Saint Peter that God did not protect him when he needed it. 

Saint Peter looks up and asks, "Who do you think made those helmets and chaps and chain brakes, etc., available for you?"

Philbert


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## WheresWally (Jul 26, 2014)

I bet 99% of the guys here have had a bush f-up, difference is there would probably only ever be 5% of the guys here admit to it...

Ever notice how the vast majority of people you hear of getting killed in the bush are professional bushmen that have been in the game for years, this type of thing can and does happen to anyone, novice or pro but the chances actually increase as a pro because you are obviously doing a lot more of it.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 26, 2014)

WheresWally said:


> Ever notice how the vast majority of people you hear of getting killed in the bush are professional bushmen that have been in the game for years, this type of thing can and does happen to anyone, novice or pro but the chances actually increase as a pro because you are obviously doing a lot more of it.



(Safety rant)

'Exposure' is only part of the story. Our state (Minnesota) has a dedicated logging safety program, and I have attended some of their programs where they review fatalities. Often, it is someone with many years experience. 

The other factor is 'risk' - which is related to probability. If someone performs a task in a risky manner, they may not get hurt (or hurt others, damage property, etc.) due to 'chance', 'luck', etc. It's common to hear someone who works in a risky manner say something like, "_I've been doing this for 30 years like this and haven't gotten hurt_ (yet)". Or, "_My father and my grandfather and everyone I know does it like this . . . ._". When someone does get hurt, they say something about 'bad luck' or 'it's a risky business', or 'it was an _accident_ - could not have been prevented', etc.

Safe work practices, including those that people like to make fun of, are based on the fact that certain things predictably happen, even if very infrequently. They are often designed to protect the worker (co-workers, property, etc.) for when those rare events do occur. Granted, it may be hard to see the benefits when those occurrences are rare. The alternative is to choose workers based on luck, or those who randomly survive enough near-misses to catch on intuitively.

Philbert


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## bucknfeller (Jul 27, 2014)

opcorn:


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## wyk (Jul 27, 2014)

Philbert said:


> There's a long joke I could tell about angels, etc. I'll change it slightly and shorten it for you.
> 
> After the forester dies and gets to the pearly gates, he angerly complains to Saint Peter that God did not protect him when he needed it.
> 
> ...



God invested in Stihl products? Who knew.


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 27, 2014)

Brad was pretty upset about this thread being bumped the other day.

Maybe it should just be deleted?


----------



## wyk (Jul 27, 2014)

WheresWally said:


> I bet 99% of the guys here have had a bush f-up, difference is there would probably only ever be 5% of the guys here admit to it...
> 
> Ever notice how the vast majority of people you hear of getting killed in the bush are professional bushmen that have been in the game for years, this type of thing can and does happen to anyone, novice or pro but the chances actually increase as a pro because you are obviously doing a lot more of it.



The difference between a pro and Brad is the pro knows Brad should stick to pushing on keyboards.


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## WheresWally (Jul 27, 2014)

reindeer said:


> The difference between a pro and Brad is the pro knows Brad should stick to pushing on keyboards.



That's a bit rough mate...

And only just noticed that this was a blast from the past MasterMind, it showed up as a new (to me) thread so i thought it was a recent disaster.


----------



## bucknfeller (Jul 27, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Brad was pretty upset about this thread being bumped the other day.
> 
> Maybe it should just be deleted?



But there is a valuable lesson here.... Plenty of other threads have been deleted because Brad got upset, this one should stay. For the good of the community.


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## Mastermind (Jul 27, 2014)

That's very true about lots of threads......and members being deleted.......

But if seeing this upsets the guy, for Christ's sake let's get rid of it too.


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## bucknfeller (Jul 27, 2014)

You can't please everyone no matter how hard you try. Why should one member be catered to, above all others?


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## Brush Ape (Jul 27, 2014)

Keep the PSA and get rid of the retardz.


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## bucknfeller (Jul 27, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Keep the PSA and get rid of the retardz.



What is PSA? And who are "the retardz"?


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## Gologit (Jul 27, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> That's very true about lots of threads......and members being deleted.......
> 
> But if seeing this upsets the guy, for Christ's sake let's get rid of it too.




Sorry Boss, can't agree with you. This thread is a great object lesson courtesy of Brad. It points out, clearly and without any doubt, that poor technique coupled with carelessness and poor judgement can hurt a guy. He couldn't have staged a better example of just plain bad saw work. Brad's video is a keeper and a lot of people can learn something from it.

Some of the posts by other guys relating _their_ screw-ups are relevant too. Props to them for having the balls to share their stories so that others don't make the same mistakes.


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## Mastermind (Jul 27, 2014)

I just figured we didn't wanna have Brad getting upset. I'm all about keeping the peace here Bob.


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## cgraham1 (Jul 27, 2014)

Gologit said:


> ... It points out, clearly and without any doubt, that _poor technique_ coupled with _carelessness and poor judgement_ can hurt a guy.


Yes. Yes it does. 



Gologit said:


> Some of the posts by other guys relating _their_ screw-ups are relevant too. Props to them for having the balls to share their stories so that others don't make the same mistakes.


Thanks for sharing.


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## fordf150 (Jul 27, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> That's very true about lots of threads......and members being deleted.......
> 
> But if seeing this upsets the guy, for Christ's sake let's get rid of it too.



as much as I like poking the thin skinned. this thread is a lesson that I and many other members should pay attention to. I am just skilled enough at running a saw to be dangerous when falling trees...just ask fastleo about my skills this past winter.


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## RandyMac (Jul 27, 2014)

Did I ever tell about the time I got dragged out of an under-cut, feet first because I missed the fact it was about to uproot?


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## Mastermind (Jul 27, 2014)

I'm damn good at what I do..........

Porting saws........not felling timber.


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## RandyMac (Jul 27, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> I'm damn good at what I do..........
> 
> *(Re)*Porting saws........not felling timber.



Fixed


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## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Jul 27, 2014)

RandyMac said:


> Did I ever tell about the time I got dragged out of an under-cut, feet first because I missed the fact it was about to uproot?


That would have been a ride.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 27, 2014)

RandyMac said:


> Did I ever tell about the time I got dragged out of an under-cut, feet first because I missed the fact it was about to uproot?


another faller grabbed you?


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## RandyMac (Jul 27, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> another faller grabbed you?



Yeah, old Ray did. We were 7 feet into a 16 footer, I crawled in to bust out chunks, I heard the creaking and popping, but lots of them "talked" during the process. Ray pulled me out and asked if I noticed anything, I shrugged, I was busy getting soaked in old tree sap. We went to the back of the tree about 20 feet back, I could feel the ground move and heard roots popping, it went over into the lay 20 minutes later.


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## weedkilla (Jul 27, 2014)

I can put my hand up too - I've had at least one stupid moment that nearly ended my days. 
I was tired at the end of a long day, I didn't look up carefully enough and missed a hang up. It smacked me in the head hard enough to knock the lenses out of my glasses, luckily I was wearing a helmet. It buried me into the leaf litter and I had branches go into the ground either side of my kidneys. The scariest bit was when I came too and dug myself out the world was all blurry. Took me a while to realise I was looking through the frames of my glasses without lenses! 
We were just dropping feral pine and walking away, it was a dense patch and that day alone I'd dropped more trees than most people would in their lifetime. Didn't stop me from getting complacent, not looking up enough, continuing on when I was tired to finish a patch...... One mistake is normally ok, start combining a few and it gets really ugly really quick. 

Thing is it's human to make mistakes, when a mistake will threaten your life you better be certain you do everything you can to avoid them and minimise the risk of the ones you make.


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## RandyMac (Jul 27, 2014)

I managed to live through a lot of stupid stuff, factoring in that I did it on purpose. My bro and I used to head out early Saturday mornings in a beater pick-up to Southern Humboldt, for a day of beer, heavy revolvers and sportfalling. Between the two of us, getting into trouble was certain.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 27, 2014)

thats wierd huh Randy.........i can't imagion what its like to get pulled out of a tree stump lol..........tho i did see a guy being held by the ankles once doing some thing close to that.

i been hit n knocked around alot in the woods..........when i look back at the stupid crap i used to do.........its a wonder i'm still here.......scars and all.
i think most just don't realize how much wieght they are playing with and how little it takes to kill you..........i been lucky i guess.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 27, 2014)

poll for the fallers; how many been cut?
1 me, once. left shin, 100% my fault.


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## HuskStihl (Jul 27, 2014)

Sometimes the trees try to kill you for no particular reason. I was clearing brush on my tractor a few years back and snagged a vine with the bucket. Woke up not long after on a moving tractor with blood in my eyes. Lucky it was a sweetgum. Wood was rotten and light


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 27, 2014)

HuskStihl said:


> Sometimes the trees try to kill you for no particular reason. I was clearing brush on my tractor a few years back and snagged a vine with the bucket. Woke up not long after on a moving tractor with blood in my eyes. Lucky it was a sweetgum. Wood was rotten and light


i know a guy lived in a body cast for one year like that.


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## RandyMac (Jul 27, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> poll for the fallers; how many been cut?
> 1 me, once. left shin, 100% my fault.



Never, not once with a moving chain.


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## Chris-PA (Jul 27, 2014)

HuskStihl said:


> Sometimes the trees try to kill you for no particular reason. I was clearing brush on my tractor a few years back and snagged a vine with the bucket. Woke up not long after on a moving tractor with blood in my eyes. Lucky it was a sweetgum. Wood was rotten and light


I've pulled on vines with the bucket a few times on purpose - but there's always been a big pucker factor with it. Something about putting all that load on something and trying to pull it straight toward you.......


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## Gologit (Jul 27, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> poll for the fallers; how many been cut?
> 1 me, once. left shin, 100% my fault.




I got a paper cut once.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 27, 2014)

ok guys.

i will explain; i was 26 cocky and thought i was the toughest man alive. late thursday afternoon and 100 degrees, i was determined to get one more load.
large pine with big limbs and lots of um, i was limbing what i had already cut down and sweat was pouring all over me.........i actualy cut the limb i was standing on and fell right on the turning chain with my left shin........chain brake did its job and i got a shallow cut about 2" long. it didn't bleed and i finished that load very care fully.
why did it happen? i was very tired very hot and pushing like a dumb azz not watching what i was doing.


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## Chris-PA (Jul 27, 2014)

.


treeslayer2003 said:


> ok guys.
> 
> i will explain; i was 26 cocky and thought i was the toughest man alive. late thursday afternoon and 100 degrees, i was determined to get one more load.
> large pine with big limbs and lots of um, i was limbing what i had already cut down and sweat was pouring all over me.........i actualy cut the limb i was standing on and fell right on the turning chain with my left shin........chain brake did its job and i got a shallow cut about 2" long. it didn't bleed and i finished that load very care fully.
> why did it happen? i was very tired very hot and pushing like a dumb azz not watching what i was doing.


Hey, I saw Wile E. Coyote do that once!


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## bnmc98 (Jul 27, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> poll for the fallers; how many been cut?
> 1 me, once. left shin, 100% my fault.



Just sharpening without gloves, more than once to my stupidity.

I get hurt falling down more than being hit by a saw. A lot more.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 27, 2014)

bnmc98 said:


> Just sharpening without gloves, more than once to my stupidity.
> 
> I get hurt falling down more than being hit by a saw. A lot more.


yep, did that once to the bone..........gloves every time.


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## Guido Salvage (Jul 27, 2014)

Gologit said:


> I got a paper cut once.



This will just confirm Draino's suspicions...


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## nmurph (Jul 27, 2014)

HuskStihl said:


> Sometimes the trees try to kill you for no particular reason. I was clearing brush on my tractor a few years back and snagged a vine with the bucket. Woke up not long after on a moving tractor with blood in my eyes. Lucky it was a sweetgum. Wood was rotten and light


I found out recently that a fellow I had worked with for several years and had retired, was yanked of his tractor while working in the woods by a vine and ended up under the mower. I have spent many days on tractors mowing some nasty tracts and have often thought how bad it would be to have that happen. Fortunately, the tractors either had cages or at least ROP. Still, I've ended up in some precarious situations.


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## Gologit (Jul 27, 2014)

Guido Salvage said:


> This will just confirm Draino's suspicions...



Dammit, does that mean no Christmas card from him this year?


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## RandyMac (Jul 27, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Dammit, does that mean no Christmas card from him this year?



Damn, is it Christmas already?


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## Gologit (Jul 27, 2014)

RandyMac said:


> Damn, is it Christmas already?




Sure. Why not?


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## blsnelling (Jul 27, 2014)

Some good stories guys. Thanks for sharing.


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## tlandrum (Jul 28, 2014)

merry Christmas,ho ho hoes


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## wyk (Jul 28, 2014)

tlandrum said:


> merry Christmas,ho ho hoes



But only in Australia.


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## wyk (Jul 28, 2014)

RandyMac said:


> Never, not once with a moving chain.



How bout by Mexicans?

I had felled a large maple a few years back about 5' DBH in a bog in Oregon. The trunk snapped back more than I figured it would and put me on the floor simply moving the ground under me.


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## Ironworker (Jul 28, 2014)

We have a saying in my trade "go to work like someone's trying to kill you".


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## weedkilla (Jul 28, 2014)

Guy I used to work with had a saying "is better to watch a man take a **** than watch him work". 

I think he meant safer - but you don't argue with big, ugly Croats.


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## dysmal (Jul 28, 2014)

Thanks for sharing guys.

That is so true, don't let yourself become complacent. 

Also, know when you're tired and you need to quit for the day. The one accident I had, I pushed myself past when I was too tired to keep going and made a mistake. 

Thankfully I was wearing my helmet at the time and didn't get injured.


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## splitpost (Jul 28, 2014)

reindeer said:


> But only in Australia.


 i can open my prezzie then

Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2


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## MustangMike (Jul 28, 2014)

Never cut myself with chain except when sharpening it, but got smacked really good by a loaded branch once, and I was standing on a log and reaching when it happened, really knocked my on my keester.

Was glad I was wearing a helmet, (never used to back in the day). I only skimmed my head, but hit me full in the shoulder. Was black & blue for a few weeks, but finished cutting the tree w/o missing a beat. If I were not wearing a helmet, I think I really would have known about it.


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## 066blaster (Jul 28, 2014)

Helmets chaps and all that good stuff aside. Don't hang around by the stump when your cutting down a big hardwood. I make a habit of quickly walking the other direction when they are falling.


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## HuskStihl (Jul 28, 2014)

066blaster said:


> I make a habit of quickly walking the other direction when they are falling.


I'm more of a runner (and screamer)


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## MustangMike (Jul 28, 2014)

Agree 100%. Always have a pre planned (pre cleared) escape route that you go down as soon as you see that back cut start to widen (diagonally off the back preferred). Don't pose for pics till the tree is down & still.

And always look up before you drop a tree to determine it any branches from your tree or an adjacent tree are likely to fall when the tree goes down. I know someone who is paralyzed from the waist down because he was struck by a dead branch from an adjacent dead Elm. This is also a reason to always wear a helmet when dropping trees.


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## 066blaster (Jul 28, 2014)

If there's thick brush I even cut a path


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## 066blaster (Jul 28, 2014)

No disrespect Brad but I think sometimes you "hot shot" it up for the camera. Slow down and be safe. Show off the speed of your saws when cutting rounds. You lost 30 seconds of your cut when you were knocked out anyway. I'm glad your still on the right side of the grass.


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## bnmc98 (Jul 28, 2014)

Sometimes its not about being complacent.

Let me share a little incident that happened to me today.

I was up on the edge of a clear cut area skidding the last unit in the row way up at the top of the hill.
There were no trees hanging over it that caught my eye and the tree line was close but not too close.
as I was feeding the choker under the unit I heard a small "crack", sounded like the logs were just settling so I waited a second.
Just then a tree top landed 2 ft from my head as I was leaning over the pile.
Didn't see it coming
it was a pine snag about 12" in diameter and the top that would have hit my head was about 3"
Can you say Lights Out.

Could that have been avoided? Maybe. The area is riddled with deadfall and snags. I maybe could have looked a little more thoroughly, but still may have missed it as my guess was that it was standing fairly upright and the feller buncher must have loosened it up.

If I did see it and recognized it as a hazard I probably would have kept my eye on it but done nothing about it in reality. I cannot go grab my saw and cut every potential hazard out around a pile everytime.
that being said, It is still a production environment.

why did it decide to go at that particular time? Who knows.

Being in the woods can be dangerous in its own right, but when you work in the woods... lets just say there is calculated acceptable risk that is always present.
Sometimes there is nothing you can do
Sometimes You just have to have trust that God is looking out for you.

In the end there are times you just have to thank God for saving your butt, as I did today, and learn not to share the close calls with your wife.



Oh, and make sure when you do cut the tree and are stepping away, or running, away from the thing... Keep an eye on it. I didn't once... never again


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## blsnelling (Jul 28, 2014)

Ac


066blaster said:


> No disrespect Brad but I think sometimes you "hot shot" it up for the camera. Slow down and be safe. Show off the speed of your saws when cutting rounds. You lost 30 seconds of your cut when you were knocked out anyway. I'm glad your still on the right side of the grass.


Actually, that's just the way I'm wired. I would love to slow down sometimes when I see myself on video.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 28, 2014)

bnmc98 said:


> Sometimes its not about being complacent.
> 
> Let me share a little incident that happened to me today.
> 
> ...


sounds familier............that little voice that says MOVE, i always listen. IDK who's voice it is but i trust it.


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## HuskStihl (Jul 29, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> sounds familier............that little voice that says MOVE, i always listen. *IDK who's voice it is *but i trust it.


It's Bob


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## Coldfront (Jul 29, 2014)

This past winter I was cutting on my log pile next to a big white pine I heard a snap above me even over the chainsaw noise. I dropped the saw and dove over the log pile, about a 20 foot 10" dia. pine branch cashed down from about 50-60 feet up landing less than 20 feet away. I should have known better cutting under that tree after a wet heavy snow. There are other stupid things that have almost killed me, things that only me and god know about, I'm not telling.


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