# Building an Inertia/Kinetic Splitter



## bower4311 (Mar 28, 2013)

Hello all,

I have done a lot of research on this subject. I am not a machinist by any means, but I want to hire a machinist to build me one of these type of splitters with me. I would also like to get an official thread going with pictures of parts and the process to build one. I want to have a good price-list with different options and trade-offs. I want to build this, with everyone's help here, then give back by documenting and organizing all of the information. 

I have tried to contact Cmccul8146, but I think I may have a problem sending PMs. If you see this Cmccul8146, I would love some help from you. You built exactly what I want to build. You seemed to do it the right way. At this point I think that between myself, when I build this (summer time), and Cmccul8146 if you are willing to help, we could get a lot of information documented. I would be willing to do all of this for free. But...if Cmccul8146 needs incentive to help out, I would consider paying for his services. At that point I would need to make my money back if it came to that. I do not know where the forum moderators stand with the best way to go about this if necessary, hopefully not. The joys of these forums is free information, but of course this would really cut back the price of a Super Split or DR Rapid Fire even if plans cost money.

In no way am I taking anything from Super Split. Paul has made an unbelievable machine that I only dream I can come close to manipulating. The patents have long expired so I wouldn't be running into any problems with legal matters. If I had the money I would buy one. I'm a 20 year old college kid who just could never afford a super-split despite doing around 100 facecord of firewood per year. 

I really would prefer if this did not turn into a Kinetic vs. Hydraulic argument. If someone here wants to turn it into that, make a new topic or I will personally send anyone 10 topics covering the issue. I would love for this to be brainstorming for one of these magnificent machines almost exclusively. Not sure if any Mod's can help with this issue, I know none personally but I want to keep this topic strict if it does take off and I am able to get good information.

I have gathered as many pictures as I can find. I've spent hours researching and finding topics.* But a great start would really be if someone had a good camera that could go all around and take pictures of the internal and mechanical components of the engaging mechanism most importantly.* This can be of a Super-Split or a DR or another homemade model. 


Thank you all!

I hope this can turn into a very productive topic that can help out many future builders to come.

Sincerely,

Adam


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## nathon918 (Mar 28, 2013)

if your going to hire a machinist to build this, it will more than likely cost you more then to just buy a supersplit.
if you have a "good" machinist friend with the tools then that might be a different story, but if not then plan on spending $60-$70+ an hour shop rate for someone to make your parts.

the price of a super split is pretty good considering all of the machine work involved...


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## bower4311 (Mar 28, 2013)

No, it would be a personal friend. But if I could get most of the stuff myself, I'm thinking I could get a lot welded first to get pretty close to the final product. Then let the rest get sorted out and pay the price.


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## Hddnis (Mar 29, 2013)

If you go to youtube and look for videos of the DR Rapidfire you'll get your walkaround video, also one with cutaway views and action shots of the "working" part of the machine. The scenes are short, but pausing will allow all the time you need to study.

Good luck with your project, it will be a labor of love, and very rewarding once you are done.



Mr. HE


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## bower4311 (Mar 29, 2013)

Hddnis said:


> If you go to youtube and look for videos of the DR Rapidfire you'll get your walkaround video, also one with cutaway views and action shots of the "working" part of the machine. The scenes are short, but pausing will allow all the time you need to study.



I already have some still shots of that video. I have a whole album of collected pictures. I may post some in groups for a record of what I have.


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## bower4311 (Mar 30, 2013)

*Splitter Pictures*

]Well, this thread isn't taking off like I wanted it to. Hopefully I can get some more information before I tackle some planning.

Here are some pictures I have. I would love to see some more pictures of super splitters up close with the covers off showing a lot of the internals and how the engaging mechanism works. I don't know if it's the same as the DR but I'm hoping it's not because I don't want to have to hold the handle in the entire time.

This is Cmccul8146's splitter he built.


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## north1 (Mar 30, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXl4FZEqw6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=256rBriIT28
http://www.log-splitter.biz/fly-wheel-style-log-splitter-lsg28hp.html


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## bower4311 (Mar 30, 2013)

north1 said:


> Kinetic baler Flywheel log splitter. Splitfire Supersplit - YouTube
> mechanical wood splitter - YouTube



Thank you those were helpful and I haven't seen 'um yet.

*You built one of these didn't you north?*


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## zogger (Mar 30, 2013)

Subscribing because I have no idea whatsoever how they work, other than they have a flywheel.


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## bower4311 (Mar 30, 2013)

zogger said:


> Subscribing because I have no idea whatsoever how they work, other than they have a flywheel.



Yeah that was me at one point. I've learned a whole lot recently but I hope to refine every part to a process anyone can follow. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## north1 (Mar 31, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> Thank you those were helpful and I haven't seen 'um yet.
> 
> *You built one of these didn't you north?*



yes I have made a kinetic spliter

# flywheels weight 45kg 48cm diameter
# rack module 4
16 tooth gear
# powered electric motor 1.1Hp for now , In the future Gasoline engine 5hp
# flywheels rotating at 220 rpm
# possibility of towing and adjustable working height


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## vinced (Mar 31, 2013)

Alright I'll join in. I've studied these splitters, followed Cmccul8146's build, read all the pages about the DRs and the Speedpros, watched every video on the Supersplits, and I would love to build one of these for myself. It just never seems to get to the top of my projects list. Plus I'm still kind of looking for the correct key pieces for the build. I'm a weldor by trade and I have a small well equipt shop at home (large lathe, fullsize kneemill, and too many welders.). My plan would be to try to use (or reuse) has many "off the shelf" parts so just about anyone could build it and it would only be a welding project. Some of the key parts to source are flywheels (been looking for common 15"-18" 70lb-100lb flywheels haven't found any yet), Rack gear (can be purchased new but isn't cheap), engagement mechanism for the rack, and reduction drive to get the flywheel speed low enough. Sure I could just go out and get a couple 2" pieces of steel and machine my own flywheels and get a piece of 2"x2"x36" bar stock and cut my own rack, but where is the fun in that? I think it would be cooler if it was put together with off the shelf parts. So I'm here to brainstorm with you.


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## walkerdogman85 (Mar 31, 2013)

I am also interested in building one my wife's grandpa has a few fly wheels of of some old pump jacks I would like to use these as they would be free. I am not sure on the engage mechanism I can usually find the rack at work in our scrap pile it would be perfect for this build. Thanks for starting this post!


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## vinced (Mar 31, 2013)

walkerdogman85 said:


> I am also interested in building one my wife's grandpa has a few fly wheels of of some old pump jacks I would like to use these as they would be free. I am not sure on the engage mechanism I can usually find the rack at work in our scrap pile it would be perfect for this build. Thanks for starting this post!



What is the diameter of the flywheels and how much do they weigh??


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## bower4311 (Mar 31, 2013)

vinced said:


> Alright I'll join in. I've studied these splitters, followed Cmccul8146's build, read all the pages about the DRs and the Speedpros, watched every video on the Supersplits, and I would love to build one of these for myself. It just never seems to get to the top of my projects list. Plus I'm still kind of looking for the correct key pieces for the build. I'm a weldor by trade and I have a small well equipt shop at home (large lathe, fullsize kneemill, and too many welders.). My plan would be to try to use (or reuse) has many "off the shelf" parts so just about anyone could build it and it would only be a welding project. Some of the key parts to source are flywheels (been looking for common 15"-18" 70lb-100lb flywheels haven't found any yet), Rack gear (can be purchased new but isn't cheap), engagement mechanism for the rack, and reduction drive to get the flywheel speed low enough. Sure I could just go out and get a couple 2" pieces of steel and machine my own flywheels and get a piece of 2"x2"x36" bar stock and cut my own rack, but where is the fun in that? I think it would be cooler if it was put together with off the shelf parts. So I'm here to brainstorm with you.



This is exactly where I stand. I want to be able to have others buy the parts and go to a welder to have it put together. Flywheels can be purchased directly from super slit so I hear. I think the flywheels will end up costing and probably have to be machined. They're a very important part of this.

Figuring out a price on the same rack and pinion that Cmccul9146 used is where I want to start. Unfortunately I know nearly nothing about machining. No experience leads to a lot of research and reading for me which I'm fine with.

I have the money to start buying parts. So once I can, I will start buying up. I think that it is wise if possible to buy a new Rack, Pinion, shaft and flywheels. I don't think re-using these parts or settling on a used part is a great idea. Everyone is free to do what they want, but for my build at least, I will have all new of those parts. I plan on saving with finding a used I-beam, (you'll be surprised what you can find for near nothing on craigslist as long as you have the muscle power to move it) along with the axle and wheels. Any other scrap metal I can find will help, but if not I'm fine with just buying new, but I'm willing to pay a decent amount.


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## bower4311 (Mar 31, 2013)

vinced said:


> What is the diameter of the flywheels and how much do they weigh??



This is a very important part. The flywheels are very important. It's also not just the weight of the flywheels, it's the distribution of weight. It has been established that vehicle flywheels are not quite _ideal_ for this project. But could work. You will find me using machined or purchased flywheels.


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## vinced (Mar 31, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> This is a very important part. The flywheels are very important. It's also not just the weight of the flywheels, it's the distribution of weight. It has been established that vehicle flywheels are not quite _ideal_ for this project. But could work. You will find me using machined or purchased flywheels.



This is my 2 cents. I would never buy a single part from Supersplit,DR, and Speeco. The idea of this build is to build a version of this style splitter, not to copy the manufactors that already make them. The video of Larry Barnett's inertia splitter is exactly what I'm talking about. He took the basic concept and designed his own version with the parts he had onhand and made the drive the same way. No one would say it is a copy of a Supersplit, just a Supersplit style of splitter. I personally like the way he went "outside of the box" and used a single larger flywheel (good use of used parts). I will investagate these square baler flywheels when spring finally gets here!


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## bower4311 (Mar 31, 2013)

vinced said:


> This is my 2 cents. I would never buy a single part from Supersplit,DR, and Speeco. The idea of this build is to build a version of this style splitter, not to copy the manufactors that already make them. The video of Larry Barnett's inertia splitter is exactly what I'm talking about. He took the basic concept and designed his own version with the parts he had onhand and made the drive the same way. No one would say it is a copy of a Supersplit, just a Supersplit style of splitter. I personally like the way he went "outside of the box" and used a single larger flywheel (good use of used parts). I will investagate these square baler flywheels when spring finally gets here!



I'm in total agreeance with you. I do not want to order a single part from Paul at Super Split. I want to find my own clutch, and design my own flywheels. I don't have a problem spending the money. So I can say now that my flywheels will be the same style that Cmccul8146 had as long as the price is not extremely high.


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## north1 (Mar 31, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> This is a very important part. The flywheels are very important. It's also not just the weight of the flywheels, it's the distribution of weight.* It has been established that vehicle flywheels are not quite ideal for this project*. But could work. You will find me using machined or purchased flywheels.





why not be a good choice
my flywheels have a larger part of the weight on the outer edge 
# flywheels can be found in scrap yard for little money
# and most importantly they are balanced there is no limit for rpm


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## vinced (Mar 31, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> I'm in total agreeance with you. I do not want to order a single part from Paul at Super Split. I want to find my own clutch, and design my own flywheels. I don't have a problem spending the money. So I can say now that my flywheels will be the same style that Cmccul8146 had as long as the price is not extremely high.



If memory serves me right, I believe he machined his own flywheels. While I could go this route, I still would like to see if I could find something premade cheaper then buying the steel and putting a couple hours of machine work into each one.


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## m37 (Mar 31, 2013)

I am gathering parts to build one.


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## bower4311 (Mar 31, 2013)

north1 said:


> why not be a good choice
> my flywheels have a larger part of the weight on the outer edge
> # flywheels can be found in scrap yard for little money
> # and most importantly they are balanced there is no limit for rpm



I thought I saw it somewhere. I guess not. I'm trying to do this as safe as possible. I just get nervous about spinning wheels is all. I would prefer to have a more stable/consistent item, one that is identical to the other. I know that you would have to find two identical flywheels ideally from vehicles.



vinced said:


> If memory serves me right, I believe he machined his own flywheels. While I could go this route, I still would like to see if I could find something premade cheaper then buying the steel and putting a couple hours of machine work into each one.



Like I said above, safety is a big concern for me, especially with a lack of experience with machining. There were certain areas I said I would not try to cut costs from and flywheels were one. But, now you guys got me thinking about other ways I could go about this and that getting those parts machined could be more expensive than I think.



m37 said:


> I am gathering parts to build one.



How many parts do you have any what are you basing your build off of?


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## nathon918 (Mar 31, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> I thought I saw it somewhere. I guess not. I'm trying to do this as safe as possible. I just get nervous about spinning wheels is all. I would prefer to have a more stable/consistent item, one that is identical to the other. I know that you would have to find two identical flywheels ideally from vehicles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



if you cant find flywheels, the cheapest way is probably to find someone with a burn table to cut you some discs out of heavy plate, then have a machine shop turn them true, and drill holes for a flange mount ...

like i told you from the begining of this post, theres a reason why the super split is expensive, its the machine work.

also id do some more research on the rack and pinion material. im thinking some tool steel, maybe H13, 4140 etc. wouldnt want to strip the rack or pinion on the first split...


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## vinced (Mar 31, 2013)

north1 said:


> why not be a good choice
> my flywheels have a larger part of the weight on the outer edge
> # flywheels can be found in scrap yard for little money
> # and most importantly they are balanced there is no limit for rpm




Automotive flywheels would work but they are too small diameter and don't weigh enough. North1, I understand you used some diesel flywheels off a semitruck? Whats the size,weight,and OEM application of those flywheels? I checked around and they aren't cheap, but never found any scrap ones either.


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## bower4311 (Mar 31, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> if you cant find flywheels, the cheapest way is probably to find someone with a burn table to cut you some discs out of heavy plate, then have a machine shop turn them true, and drill holes for a flange mount ...



That's a good idea. I could try to find some used plates on craigslist or something.


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## bower4311 (Mar 31, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> also id do some more research on the rack and pinion material. im thinking some tool steel, maybe H13, 4140 etc. wouldnt want to strip the rack or pinion on the first split...



Cmccul8146 gave the exact parts that he used for his rack and pinion and he didn't report any problems with them. He's a machinist by trade if I remember correctly so I'm sure he had a good idea what he was buying when he purchased them. They are Martin parts that he used.


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## vinced (Mar 31, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> That's a good idea. I could try to find some used plates on craigslist or something.




Just having someone cut out the circles on a burn table is one cost, not to mention the cost of the steel. In the winter of 2011-12 I made a 26" flywheel 1" thick for someone and my local good deal steel dealer qouted me $68.00 just to cut it out on there flamecutter. I bought the steel from them for around 90 some dollars and torched it out myself. Spent about 2 hours grinding down the OD to get past the flamehardened edge and spent about 2 hours machining it up and balancing it up so it ran true. After that I decided if I was to build an inertia type splitter I'd try to find some premade flywheels. I charged them $250 to make it,but it was a favor for a good friend. This is just giving you an idea of what the cost and labor would be to make flywheels,from someone that has the means and knowledge to do it.
Has far as the rack goes, I can see machining my own has I don't see any surplus ones cheap enough. Plus the gear rack and pinion gear are what I consider "wear items". So if I strip a rack out after a few hours of use, I'd only be out about $40.00 in steel and a few hours of machining compared to $345.00 that Amazon wants for the rack. I know these parts aren't heat treated but my idea would be to make the rack harder then the pinion gear. So the pinion gear would wear or strip before the rack.


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## bower4311 (Mar 31, 2013)

Yeah, I'm starting to see that the flywheels are going to get tricky to find.

I'm not sure what Paul at Super Split does but I don't remember anyone ever mentioning replacing those items. Now, he does have his machine down to a science and I'm sure it has very little stress compared to homemade but if he does some sort of heat treating that would be nice to know. Maybe someone has talked to him about it. How much does heat treating run and who can usually do it? 

Wouldn't big machine shops have wholesalers that could get you a rack and pinion for a reasonable price?


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## bower4311 (Mar 31, 2013)

Motion Industries has almost the same rack that Cmccul8146 used, 14.5 degree vs 20 degree which I couldn't find but I'm sure they can get it, for around $200. Seems they have a lot of locations around. I would assume they won't charge for delivery to a location and I don't see if they have minimum orders or if they handle retail or whatnot. I'm not familiar with the company but I may give them a call.

EDIT: $100 for the spur gear


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## vinced (Mar 31, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> Motion Industries has almost the same rack that Cmccul8146 used, 14.5 degree vs 20 degree which I couldn't find but I'm sure they can get it, for around $200. Seems they have a lot of locations around. I would assume they won't charge for delivery to a location and I don't see if they have minimum orders or if they handle retail or whatnot. I'm not familiar with the company but I may give them a call.
> 
> EDIT: $100 for the spur gear



I deal with Motion Industries in my town. They are a little on the high side for things. They have no minimum and I always do my homework before going there. McMasterCarr also has these rack gears at not a bad price. Around $200 still seems to expensive for something that can be junk in seconds with the pull of a handle. Supersplit does have these splitters dialed in. I bet he sources his flywheels over seas to his specs. Not much can go wrong there. I think his racks are off the shelve part, but I think he machines the pinion teeth onto the flywheel shaft.


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## bower4311 (Mar 31, 2013)

vinced said:


> I deal with Motion Industries in my town. They are a little on the high side for things. They have no minimum and I always do my homework before going there. McMasterCarr also has these rack gears at not a bad price. Around $200 still seems to expensive for something that can be junk in seconds with the pull of a handle. Supersplit does have these splitters dialed in. I bet he sources his flywheels over seas to his specs. Not much can go wrong there. I think his racks are off the shelve part, but I think he machines the pinion teeth onto the flywheel shaft.



Very true. But I think it is a risk I am willing to take, since if I do go ahead I have no choice anyway.

It would only make sense to machine the pinion teeth into the shaft if you're in the business. Any idea what that would cost to get done if it would be worth it at all?

Do you know anything about heat treating?


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## nathon918 (Mar 31, 2013)

vinced said:


> Just having someone cut out the circles on a burn table is one cost, not to mention the cost of the steel. In the winter of 2011-12 I made a 26" flywheel 1" thick for someone and my local good deal steel dealer qouted me $68.00 just to cut it out on there flamecutter. I bought the steel from them for around 90 some dollars and torched it out myself. Spent about 2 hours grinding down the OD to get past the flamehardened edge and spent about 2 hours machining it up and balancing it up so it ran true. After that I decided if I was to build an inertia type splitter I'd try to find some premade flywheels. I charged them $250 to make it,but it was a favor for a good friend. This is just giving you an idea of what the cost and labor would be to make flywheels,from someone that has the means and knowledge to do it.
> Has far as the rack goes, I can see machining my own has I don't see any surplus ones cheap enough. Plus the gear rack and pinion gear are what I consider "wear items". So if I strip a rack out after a few hours of use, I'd only be out about $40.00 in steel and a few hours of machining compared to $345.00 that Amazon wants for the rack. I know these parts aren't heat treated but my idea would be to make the rack harder then the pinion gear. So the pinion gear would wear or strip before the rack.



unless you can find someone that mass produces fly wheels, theyre going to be expensive, you could have some cast but theres still machine work involved.
as for making a rack and pinion unless you have gear making equipment (gear hobs, CNC mills, grinders,etc) its going to take alot longer then "a few hours" to make a 24"+ rack and pinion!


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## nathon918 (Mar 31, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> Motion Industries has almost the same rack that Cmccul8146 used, 14.5 degree vs 20 degree which I couldn't find but I'm sure they can get it, for around $200. Seems they have a lot of locations around. I would assume they won't charge for delivery to a location and I don't see if they have minimum orders or if they handle retail or whatnot. I'm not familiar with the company but I may give them a call.
> 
> EDIT: $100 for the spur gear



theres also Eastern Industrial Automation, theyre a new england company, all power transmission, motion control, components...


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## bower4311 (Mar 31, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> theres also Eastern Industrial Automation, theyre a new england company, all power transmission, motion control, components...



Thanks, doesn't look like they have anything close-by to me. If I do it, I'll go with the 2' rack and have an extension attached if this is possible. Someone stated in the other thread that they thought it would work. I also don't need it to split anything longer than 20 inch. But that could be used for a trial and if it's too short I'll just spend the money for the 4' rack.


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## vinced (Mar 31, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> Very true. But I think it is a risk I am willing to take, since if I do go ahead I have no choice anyway.
> 
> It would only make sense to machine the pinion teeth into the shaft if you're in the business. Any idea what that would cost to get done if it would be worth it at all?
> 
> Do you know anything about heat treating?



Heat treating is a mystical art in itself. Alot of variables and it all depends on what type of steel you start with and what dimentions the final part has to hold. What I was getting at was I was thinking about machining the rack out of a harder steel then the pinion.Heck, the pinion could be also made from brass.


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## vinced (Mar 31, 2013)

nathon918 said:


> unless you can find someone that mass produces fly wheels, theyre going to be expensive, you could have some cast but theres still machine work involved.
> as for making a rack and pinion unless you have gear making equipment (gear hobs, CNC mills, grinders,etc) its going to take alot longer then "a few hours" to make a 24"+ rack and pinion!



A 24" rack would be easy. I could order the correct cutter profile and use my veritcal mill with digital readout or I could grind the cutter out of a piece of high steel tool blank and use my prehistoric metal shaper (my perfered way). The first one always takes the longest,any after that seem to go faster because you already have the setup and cutter made.


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## bower4311 (Mar 31, 2013)

vinced said:


> Heat treating is a mystical art in itself. Alot of variables and it all depends on what type of steel you start with and what dimentions the final part has to hold. What I was getting at was I was thinking about machining the rack out of a harder steel then the pinion.Heck, the pinion could be also made from brass.



Right. Well, I think that I will look into heat treating of gear racks and pinions. Find some more information. If it's worth it, why not, who wants to risk breaking a $200 part.


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## north1 (Apr 1, 2013)

vinced said:


> Automotive flywheels would work but they are too small diameter and don't weigh enough. North1, I understand you used some diesel flywheels off a semitruck? Whats the size,weight,and OEM application of those flywheels? I checked around and they aren't cheap, but never found any scrap ones either.




#99lb each 
#19 inch wide
OEM application???
# I paid them $ 100 # they are from the same type track
gear #is that *T 16961 16* http://www.ideal-velenje.si/pdf,cdr/str_el_2/03-Celni_zobniki.pdf
#they cost me 20$#

rack consists of two narrow pieces that are fitted to flat iron 2.5x 0.8 
rack and I beam faund on scrap jard for free 


http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/111335-10.htm


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## vinced (Apr 1, 2013)

north1 said:


> #99lb each
> #19 inch wide
> OEM application???
> 
> ...



OEM means Original Equipment Manufactorer or what did it come off and what was it used for?


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## vinced (Apr 1, 2013)

Now that we have hashed over some of the issues with sourcing parts for the build, lets talk about some of the engineering issues with the design on this splitter. Seems the biggest problem to having a successful inertia splitter is the engaging of the pinion gear to the rackgear. In my opinion these parts are miss used. They are not designed to be engaged while they are running with the momentom of 2 70lb flywheels driving the pinion. Superslit,Cmccul18146, and Larry Barnett have seemed have it down by having the pinion gear turning less then 200 rpm. This makes the sudden engagment not has much of a strain on the teeth of the pinion and rack gear. This is where Speeco went wrong with there inertia splitter. Larry Barnett has took the design one step further by having the flywheel turning faster then the pinion gear shaft (slower rack speed more momentum from the flywheel). Has also has the slowest moving rack I've seen witch makes it less scary to operate. It kind of just pushes the wood instead of slamming the wood into the wedge. I've had thoughts about somehow designing it so the pinion gear and the rackgear were always engaged. Then clutch the pinion shaft somehow. I was thinking of a lawn tractor electric pto clutch. i think it could work. It would take all the stress off the pinion gear and the rackgear. Just my thoughts.


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## walkerdogman85 (Apr 1, 2013)

vinced said:


> What is the diameter of the flywheels and how much do they weigh??



Not sure ill have to measure them the next time I Am out there.


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## north1 (Apr 1, 2013)

vinced said:


> OEM means Original Equipment Manufactorer or what did it come off and what was it used for?



I'm not engineer my knowledge is only practical

My defense for flywheels of the truck is just in this that they are made to revolve far more than is necessary for the splitter they are capable of rotating up to 5000 rpm without worry ,here is the safety


all that is possible to find the information on the copy SS is already written is hard to find something new
Cmccul18146 wrote everything it matters

ps :Sorry for my English


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## bower4311 (Apr 1, 2013)

vinced said:


> Now that we have hashed over some of the issues with sourcing parts for the build, lets talk about some of the engineering issues with the design on this splitter. Seems the biggest problem to having a successful inertia splitter is the engaging of the pinion gear to the rackgear. In my opinion these parts are miss used. They are not designed to be engaged while they are running with the momentom of 2 70lb flywheels driving the pinion. Superslit,Cmccul18146, and Larry Barnett have seemed have it down by having the pinion gear turning less then 200 rpm. This makes the sudden engagment not has much of a strain on the teeth of the pinion and rack gear. This is where Speeco went wrong with there inertia splitter. Larry Barnett has took the design one step further by having the flywheel turning faster then the pinion gear shaft (slower rack speed more momentum from the flywheel). Has also has the slowest moving rack I've seen witch makes it less scary to operate. It kind of just pushes the wood instead of slamming the wood into the wedge. I've had thoughts about somehow designing it so the pinion gear and the rackgear were always engaged. Then clutch the pinion shaft somehow. I was thinking of a lawn tractor electric pto clutch. i think it could work. It would take all the stress off the pinion gear and the rackgear. Just my thoughts.



That's an interesting concept. I've read many testimonials on here about the Super Split. I'm yet to find someone who has said they've needed to replace the rack and pinion from wear. Not that any of us will immediately duplicate the SS, but we should be able to have a rack and pinion that last a while. As long as the log is not so long that it's forced between the pusher plate and wedge, there should be very little load on the rack when the pinion engages it. Especially considering the rollers that will be used to guide the pusher plate. The gears are meant to mesh perfectly so I feel there shouldn't be a lot of problems with stress on the gears. Now, if you could design something like this, it would for sure be easier on the machine. I Just feel that engaging and disengaging that mechanism for it to run right would be a lot of extra work. Working at low speed RPMs should help a lot with wearing out the pinion or rack.


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## vinced (Apr 1, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> That's an interesting concept. I've read many testimonials on here about the Super Split. I'm yet to find someone who has said they've needed to replace the rack and pinion from wear. Not that any of us will immediately duplicate the SS, but we should be able to have a rack and pinion that last a while. As long as the log is not so long that it's forced between the pusher plate and wedge, there should be very little load on the rack when the pinion engages it. Especially considering the rollers that will be used to guide the pusher plate. The gears are meant to mesh perfectly so I feel there shouldn't be a lot of problems with stress on the gears. Now, if you could design something like this, it would for sure be easier on the machine. I Just feel that engaging and disengaging that mechanism for it to run right would be a lot of extra work. Working at low speed RPMs should help a lot with wearing out the pinion or rack.




Like I said. These pinion gears are not designed to be engaged to the rack while the pinion is turning and has torque on it. Most of the applications the pinion is fixed mounted so it is properly meshed with the rack all the time. Think of a manual transmission in a car. They have syncronizers to slow down the shaft speeds and to take the torque off them so the gears can engage.


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## bower4311 (Apr 1, 2013)

I agree that's not how they're supposed to be used but if you keep the flywheel speed down they could last a long time. But I do accept that I could go through a rack and pinion multiple times if I screw up some design work. 

Does anyone know if there would be a huge difference between 20 and 14.5 degree rack and pinion for this application? 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## yeknom (Apr 1, 2013)

i have my flywheels, bearings,rack and pinion and a chunk of the "frame" built. im looking at making mine electric, i will be working on it this week and will post some pictures and details here.


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## vinced (Apr 2, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> I agree that's not how they're supposed to be used but if you keep the flywheel speed down they could last a long time. But I do accept that I could go through a rack and pinion multiple times if I screw up some design work.
> 
> Does anyone know if there would be a huge difference between 20 and 14.5 degree rack and pinion for this application?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2



Its to my understanding that 14.5 degree is stronger and is the prefered one to use. Pitch is another story. Most people are using a 4 or 6 pitch rack and pinion. 6 pitch seems to be the most common among the vendors of the rack gears.


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## vinced (Apr 2, 2013)

yeknom said:


> i have my flywheels, bearings,rack and pinion and a chunk of the "frame" built. im looking at making mine electric, i will be working on it this week and will post some pictures and details here.



Love to hear more about the parts you have collected and can't wait to see the pictures!


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## brenndatomu (Apr 2, 2013)

vinced said:


> Its to my understanding that 14.5 degree is stronger and is the prefered one to use. Pitch is another story. Most people are using a 4 or 6 pitch rack and pinion. 6 pitch seems to be the most common among the vendors of the rack gears.



The McMaster Carr catalog says that the 20 deg gears have stronger teeth and are designed for higher load capacities. Also says, the coarser the pitch (4 vs 6) the more heavy duty it is considered. (although anything under 20 is considered to be heavy duty) (under 20 = HD, 20 - 64 = med. duty, 64 and up = light duty)


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## bower4311 (Apr 2, 2013)

vinced said:


> Love to hear more about the parts you have collected and can't wait to see the pictures!



+1



vinced said:


> Its to my understanding that 14.5 degree is stronger and is the prefered one to use. Pitch is another story. Most people are using a 4 or 6 pitch rack and pinion. 6 pitch seems to be the most common among the vendors of the rack gears.





brenndatomu said:


> The McMaster Carr catalog says that the 20 deg gears have stronger teeth and are designed for higher load capacities. Also says, the coarser the pitch (4 vs 6) the more heavy duty it is considered. (although anything under 20 is considered to be heavy duty) (under 20 = HD, 20 - 64 = med. duty, 64 and up = light duty)



This is research I've gathered on the web.



> 20 deg. gears require a closer tolerance on the gear-to-gear center distance to obtain the same backlash as 14-1/2 deg. gears.



and



> Generally 14 1/2 degree compared to 20 deg pressure angles
> 
> 14 1/2 degree PAs will have:
> 
> ...



For what it's worth. I don't understand 100% of what is being said here but something seems to lead me to 14.5 being better for the merging process that we're using (unless someone can come up with something else) that involves pushing the gears together for them to contact each other.


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## vinced (Apr 2, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> +1
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I could have been wrong on the 14.5 being better. I'll have to look up in the other thread what other people and manufactures have used. I actually bought a 15 tooth 6 pitch pinion gear off Ebay cheap a few years ago, but I haven't been able to locate it. It will pop up sooner or later.


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## yeknom (Apr 2, 2013)

could someone tell me how to post pics?


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## bower4311 (Apr 2, 2013)

yeknom said:


> could someone tell me how to post pics?



There are multiple ways. Probably the easiest for you would be to click this button.

View attachment 288062


Then you will see this, you have to upload the image. Click "Add Files" at the top then "Select Files" then select files. Then click "Upload Files" Then hit "Done" at the very bottom right of that window. That should attach them to your post.

View attachment 288061


If it doesn't automatically attach it, you can click the dropdown arrow to the right of the paperclip you first clicked on, then click each image and it will automatically insert that picture with the proper coding into your post.


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## bower4311 (Apr 2, 2013)

vinced said:


> I could have been wrong on the 14.5 being better. I'll have to look up in the other thread what other people and manufactures have used. I actually bought a 15 tooth 6 pitch pinion gear off Ebay cheap a few years ago, but I haven't been able to locate it. It will pop up sooner or later.



Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a cheap-o pinion gear, an expensive rack, then if something gives it will be the gear. And if it lasts a long time, then great.


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## vinced (Apr 2, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a cheap-o pinion gear, an expensive rack, then if something gives it will be the gear. And if it lasts a long time, then great.



That was my thought in the earlier post. Make the pinion gear the weak link.


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## bower4311 (Apr 2, 2013)

vinced said:


> That was my thought in the earlier post. Make the pinion gear the weak link.



As long as it doesn't cost you and you can remove the shaft relatively easily then I'm glad you suggested that because it makes sense. I will probably do that if I can find a real cheap gear.


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## Duane(Pa) (Apr 2, 2013)

I want to subscribe. I would offer the following suggestion about flywheels; if you can find a tractor salvage yard, Ag tractors have very heavy flywheels compared to truck or auto. They are thick, not large (diameter). In a bone yard, they often have more than one of the same model donor maybe even sitting side by side. Just a thought.


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## bower4311 (Apr 2, 2013)

That's a good idea. Although it is preferable to have a bigger diameter but it's an idea. I wonder about wheel weights for tractors. Maybe certain ones would work. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## yeknom (Apr 2, 2013)

View attachment 288095
ok test lol ..... ha i think i got it! thanks bower!


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## bower4311 (Apr 2, 2013)

yeknom said:


> View attachment 288095
> ok test lol ..... ha i think i got it! thanks bower!



No problem! 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## yeknom (Apr 3, 2013)

here is a quick couple pictures of mine. please note this is just kinda mocked up for now.


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## north1 (Apr 4, 2013)

What is the Pitch diameter


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## vinced (Apr 4, 2013)

yeknom said:


> here is a quick couple pictures of mine. please note this is just kinda mocked up for now.




Where did you get the flywheels. Whats there size and weight? How many teeth are on that pinion gear??


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## yeknom (Apr 4, 2013)

the gear is 14.5 21 tooth 
the flywheels i cnc plasma cut from 1 inch carbon steel and had a machinist friend turn them down and broach a keyway 
the shaft is 1-3/8'' fully keyed non hardened carbon from mcmaster carr.


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## vinced (Apr 4, 2013)

yeknom said:


> the gear is 14.5 21 tooth
> the flywheels i cnc plasma cut from 1 inch carbon steel and had a machinist friend turn them down and broach a keyway
> the shaft is 1-3/8'' fully keyed non hardened carbon from mcmaster carr.



The only problem I see is the 21 tooth gear. You are going to have to really slow down the shaft that the sprocket is mounted to or the rack is really going to rocket out. Most builds use a 15 tooth and I think Supersplit machines 12 teeth onto a shaft. With a 15 tooth gear about the largest shaft you can mount it on is 1 1/4". This is another issue with this design.


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## bower4311 (Apr 4, 2013)

vinced said:


> The only problem I see is the 21 tooth gear. You are going to have to really slow down the shaft that the sprocket is mounted to or the rack is really going to rocket out. Most builds use a 15 tooth and I think Supersplit machines 12 teeth onto a shaft. With a 15 tooth gear about the largest shaft you can mount it on is 1 1/4". This is another issue with this design.



Right. Now this is where it has been said to have the pinion gear bored to accept a bigger shaft? 1/8th bigger to 1-3/8?


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## yeknom (Apr 4, 2013)

yes i hear you on the number of teeth. the reason i went with this set up is i got the rack and pinion free and started from there.


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## bower4311 (Apr 5, 2013)

yeknom said:


> yes i hear you on the number of teeth. the reason i went with this set up is i got the rack and pinion free and started from there.



Can't beat that. You'll have to let us know how it goes.

When do you plan on working on the splitter some more?


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## CAJ (Apr 5, 2013)

A couple random thoughts on potential issues that were discussed a couple pages back...

For the gear/rack meshing, I think that by keeping the shaft speed relatively low (something in the 300rpm range) and using gears that are generously oversize for your loads, you really should be fine. No, it's certainly not the "ideal" way to do things, but you're also generally working at much lower loads, speed and cycles than these gears are capable of. 

The big challenge that I see is getting the right compromise in your gear selection so that everything is strong enough, but your ram speed isn't too crazy fast.

Assume you have your flywheels spinning at 300RPM and rigidly attached to the gear shaft (so it's at 300 RPM as well). 

If you were to go with a very low pitch gear in order to have a larger diameter through shaft, you end up with a ram speed that's too high. But, in order to slow that down, your gear pitch has to increase which decreases the diameter of the gear for a given number of teeth (increasing the number of teeth will increase ram speed again). So your through shaft gets smaller. The question then becomes can you find a compromise that gives an acceptable (i.e. semi safe) ram speed and a strong enough shaft. Looking at the DR splitter, they accomplish that by custom machining the gear teeth into the shaft so that their shaft OD matches the gear OD. But that's a bit out of the realm of the home builder...

Looking at an 8P, 15T gear at 300 RPM, I'm getting a ram speed of about 29"/sec. That seems s bit higher than you'd want. (appologies if my calcs are off, it's been a long day, so I may be doing something stupid here...). The problem is that it's a bit of a challenge to get the gear size down much further. I'm thinking you wouldn't want much less than a 1" dia. shaft and it's going to be hard to get much smaller a gear on that size shaft - at least using a keyway or something like that. 

So, a few options.

1) Use a gear with no keyway and weld it to the shaft. That'll let you get a bit smaller on the gear. It's going to cause some issues with a heat treated gear or shaft though although you might not need that.

2) Put the flywheels on a separate shaft and use a gear, belt, etc... to slow down the shaft that your final gear is on. That would also allow you to increase the flywheel speed a bit which helps as the momentum that drives the whole thing is a function of the speed squared but only linear with mass. Just remember that the faster the flywheels go, the better balanced they need to be.

I actually kind of like the second option - especially if you could get enough force out of a belt drive on the speed reduction as belt slip would give you a fuse in the system to protect everything else. It might be too much of a fuse though and also protect the wood you're trying to split! 

Lots of options!


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## vinced (Apr 6, 2013)

CAJ said:


> A couple random thoughts on potential issues that were discussed a couple pages back...
> 
> For the gear/rack meshing, I think that by keeping the shaft speed relatively low (something in the 300rpm range) and using gears that are generously oversize for your loads, you really should be fine. No, it's certainly not the "ideal" way to do things, but you're also generally working at much lower loads, speed and cycles than these gears are capable of.
> 
> ...



I couldn't have said it better myself. I believe 300 rpm is the very high side and something around 200 rpm would be better. It also seems that the bigger and heavier the flywheels the more slower you can turn the pinion (better and easier on the rack and gear) and still have the intertia to split the wood. Like you said, when you start getting the pinion gear smaller you lose useable shaft size that the pinion gear mounts on. I know Supersplit and now you said DR machines teeth right on the shaft to get around this problem. I think this is the single most important design feature of having a successful inertia splitter (keeping the pinion gear shaft speed down around 200 rpm).


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## Duane(Pa) (Apr 6, 2013)

The engagement itself only has to overcome the inertia of the ram (usually on rollers)so it is a factor, but I think more important is the speed and danger of a tough log poping up off the wedge. It remains to be seen, but I think small shaft sizes are going to lead to shearing problems. Speaking of shearing, hay balers use shear bolts on the flywheel to protect the gearbox from solid objects in the plunger case.


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## bower4311 (Apr 7, 2013)

Well we've heard a lot of different opinions. I've compiled a bunch of pictures I'll upload tomorrow sometime. It will make this thread pretty picture heavy. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## bower4311 (Apr 8, 2013)




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## bower4311 (Apr 8, 2013)




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## bower4311 (Apr 8, 2013)




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## bower4311 (Apr 8, 2013)




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## north1 (Apr 8, 2013)

bower4311 

This last splitter is a completely different concept and it is not for this topic


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## bower4311 (Apr 8, 2013)

I just added it for any kind of comparison or even frame design ideas or whatnot. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## north1 (Apr 8, 2013)

My apologies this is your thread,
when I get time I'll do some photos of the current state of my kinetic splitter

ps:Sorry for bad English


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## bower4311 (Apr 8, 2013)

north1 said:


> My apologies this is your thread,
> when I get time I'll do some photos of the current state of my kinetic splitter
> 
> ps:Sorry for bad English



Good stuff can't wait 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Duane(Pa) (Apr 8, 2013)

Awesome pics! 

If anyone is looking for the spring that holds the rack up away from the pinion on the return stroke, I think the ones commonly found under riding lawnmower seats (Cub Cadet) should be just the ticket.


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## bower4311 (Apr 8, 2013)

Duane(Pa) said:


> Awesome pics!
> 
> If anyone is looking for the spring that holds the rack up away from the pinion on the return stroke, I think the ones commonly found under riding lawnmower seats (Cub Cadet) should be just the ticket.



I'll keep this in mind. Thanks 

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## yeknom (Apr 8, 2013)

thats to funny all your pics are the ones ive saved up my self.


i found this simple download helpful when i was trying to figure how to slow down the pinion to 300 rpm
RPM and Pulley Calculator


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## Koffiekopje (Feb 23, 2014)

bower4311 said:


> I'll keep this in mind. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2




I came across this forum looking for info on a DIY kinetic splitter. I know this topic is almost a year old, but I was wondering if you did make your DIY splitter.
I just finished my bill-of-materials and am planning on building one around a module 4 rack, 16 tooth gear and a 30mm ( 1 1/4") axle. Using 2 pieces of 30kg (70 lbs a piece) barbell weights. Rpm would be in the lower 200's.Any thoughts on that having the experience from the past year ?


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## Oliver1655 (Feb 23, 2014)

Koffie, How were you planning on balancing the barbell weights?


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## bower4311 (Feb 23, 2014)

No I never ended up building. The. Flywheels were my problem area and lack of cheap machining. 


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## vinced (Feb 23, 2014)

I've followed and join in on this thread from the start. I have most of the parts gathered to build one. I plan on using one flywheel from a New Holland hay baler I bought for $50.00. Right now I'm stuck on the pusher block and how to mount the bearings so they ride on the I beam in both directions. Most of the problem is I've never seen this type of splitter in person,only in pictures and videos on the net.


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## Oliver1655 (Feb 23, 2014)

I hear there is normally one brought to GTGs for others to try. You can also start a thread asking if there is someone in your area with one you could see. Most folks on here are very helpful.


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## nathon918 (Feb 23, 2014)

bower4311 said:


> No I never ended up building. The. Flywheels were my problem area and lack of cheap machining.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 yup machining doesnt equal cheap


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## nathon918 (Feb 23, 2014)

Oliver1655 said:


> Koffie, How were you planning on balancing the barbell weights?


 if he knows someone with a tire balancer, they should fit on the spindle... then either grind material out or weld to it to add weight...


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## firebrick43 (Feb 23, 2014)

Sorry to rain on someone's parade bu NEVER use barbell or tractor wheel weights. They are cast out of the worst quality iron and filled with defects. Look up flywheel explosions on the web and you will find out how dangerous a flywheel can be. A diesel or antique tractor flywheel is going to be of sufficient quality or a steel plate. Balancing should be done on static balance ways, not a tire balancer. Look up "motorcycle balance ways". These are cheap, easy, safe, and extremely effective IF you are meticulous and detailed oriented. If your a sloppy idiot, well your going to hurt yourself and others


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## cat10ken (Feb 23, 2014)

Why not use flywheels from hit & miss engines? They usually come in matched pairs and come in a multitude of weights and diameters. Go to a steam and gas engine show and check out the vendors selling used parts.


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## colson04 (Feb 24, 2014)

Glad this thread was dug up, very interesting to see someone go a different route with a splitter build project.


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## Koffiekopje (Mar 3, 2014)

especially @Firebrick....thanks for the warning. 2nd hand Flywheels are hard to come by (=expensive) her in Holland. In the meanwhile I started splitting it by hand . Until I find real affordable flywheels I'll put this project on hold.

Thanks again.


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## Oliver1655 (Mar 3, 2014)

Koffie, how long of rounds are you splitting? There is a video on YouTube of a hand operated splitter which looks like it works well with shorter length rounds.



If mounted on a stable base, you could even have a davit/lifting boom setup to to pick up the larger pieces & set them on the table for you. This would be a fairly inexpensive setup.


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## homemade (Mar 3, 2014)

Oliver1655 said:


> Koffie, how long of rounds are you splitting? There is a video on YouTube of a hand operated splitter which looks like it works well with shorter length rounds.
> 
> 
> 
> If mounted on a stable base, you could even have a davit/lifting boom setup to to pick up the larger pieces & set them on the table for you. This would be a fairly inexpensive setup.





That guy needs some oil on that spring, hinge, heck the whole thing. Looks like it will rust away.


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## tla100 (Jan 8, 2015)

Would a torque converter work instead of a solid steel flywheel?


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