# Felling a Pine against teh lean



## jhendric (Aug 21, 2013)

Guys, this is my first post on this forum, so thank you in advance. I searched but could not find exactly the advice I'm looking for. So here goes...

I have a pine tree of about 50' tall maybe 18" diameter at chest height. It is leaning a bit...maybe 5-10 degrees towards my boathouse on our lake. Also literally all of the limbs are on the side to which it is leaning as that is the sunny side.

I have cut down probably 20 trees of similar or larger size, but because of the high cost of failure this one concerns me...I really don't have any margin for error.

My plan for felling this tree is as follows. First my best clear fall line is about 130 degrees to the lean, that would also be the best path to allow me a good safe escape as I am limited by water if I go 180. I have 200' of 3/4 bull rope (23000 pounds tensil strength) that I intend to tie using a throw line in the top 1/3 of the tree...I will run this main pull line to my Ford F350. Initially I plan to apply tension on the tree with the truck. Next I plan to attach two other 5/8 inch nylon ropes to teh top 1/3 and tie them to trees that will line them up with the desired fall line. I will tension these other ropes with Come alongs.

I will have a good bit of tension on the tree prior to cutting, so I intend to wrap the trunk prior to any cutting with 20' of 3/8 inch chain. I plan to cut the notch pointed right in the direction I want it to fall then make the back cut up unto the point that is is very close to falling. Then I plan to slowly pull the tree with the F350 until it falls.

Please let me know your thoughts on this. I believe this should provide me a high margin for error.


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## HuskStihl (Aug 21, 2013)

Sounds like a really good tree to handle from the top down, meaning just pay somebody to do it. If that rope breaks, and they do, that thing will want to smash the boathouse. If you're willing to risk that and possible injury, go for it. When pulling a tree over I like to make my back cut about an inch and a half to two inches below the gunning cut, makes things happen slower. Sight unseen I'm pretty sure I could turn it out of harms way with a couple of wedges, but I'd think twice given your thin margin for error. Pics will help as well, and welcome


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## mdavlee (Aug 21, 2013)

I will say I've back cut first and bored through the hinge on small trees that I can't get wedges in with the bar. I wouldn't put much tension on it with a truck or anything like that before you make your cuts. Pictures would be better for more advice.


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## isaacvent (Aug 21, 2013)

jhendric said:


> Guys, this is my first post on this forum, so thank you in advance. I searched but could not find exactly the advice I'm looking for. So here goes...
> 
> I have a pine tree of about 50' tall maybe 18" diameter at chest height. It is leaning a bit...maybe 5-10 degrees towards my boathouse on our lake. Also literally all of the limbs are on the side to which it is leaning as that is the sunny side.
> 
> ...




Well your plan sounds pretty good really. The truck will provide more then enough pulling power and if your bull line is new and in good shape a steady pull is unlikely to break it. I would put a face cut in the direction you are pulling. Put some tension on the bull line, you should move the top of the tree a bit. Start your back cut and get a couple wedges in it asap. As you get to about 2 inches of hinge start your pull. Timing is important here. If your driver pulls too early and hard he could break the top out of the tree, also there is a potential for a barber chair. But if you keep some tension on the tree, as you cut it will start to go on its own. Its important to keep cutting as your truck is pulling the tree over. You should be left with a tree right where you want it, broken off of a 1-2inch hinge. The idea is to let the truck pull it over with a strong hinge intact to prevent it from going anywhere other then toward the truck.


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## Lil Red (Aug 21, 2013)

One thing to be careful of when you using a pull rope to offset a backleaner; look out for the tree twisting and/or falling to the left or right. I didn't read whether you are putting a second line in it for safety measure so it might be a failsafe if it does twist and turn on you. Or you can just pay a tree company to do it for you... The cost of the mistake far out-weights what the removal will cost.

and your "margin of error" is pretty risky imho if the boat house is in striking distance.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 21, 2013)

Let's simplify the plan a little. No need for three ropes. Get your bull line up in the top third, and just put a little tension on it, just til you see the top start to move. Make your face cut, making sure your cuts match up perfectly, about 1/3 diameter, and level. If need be, start smaller and keep dressing til it's a perfect match and aimed dead on. Then take your saw and make a cut through the face at a 45 about an inch in at each side of the notch. This will precent side tearout, and keep the tree from twisting as it falls. At thos point check the tension on your rope, and just get it to the point it wants to strum. At this point you can start a noce level backcut about 1-2 inches ABOVE your notch. Cut in about a bar's width and see how it feels. At this point you can have your driver apply a small bit more tension and see if the backcut is starting to open. If so, go ahead and finish the backcut as it continues to open, leaving a nice even 1 1/2 - 2" hinge. If not' a little more tension and repeat. Just don't cut through the hinge! As far as the two 5/8 ropes you were planning on, as soon as the tree start's falling, they're just gonna go slack and won't do a damn bit of good. It's all about the notch and the hinge. Jef


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## jhendric (Aug 22, 2013)

Thanks for all of the excellent advice I understand that the extra ropes would just go slack once it starts falling, but I wanted them as failsafes in case the main line come undone...although it really shouldn't break it's brand new.

I may yet just call the man but I have 3+ heavily wooded acres with an occasional beaver visit...so I really need to get good at felling trees...the man wants $600 per tree and I do not doubt that is a fair price...but I average 5 trees a year, can't afford him except on rare occasion.


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## caddguy (Aug 22, 2013)

Here's my advice for what it is worth.
If you are not comfortable, walk away and have it done by a service. I am always surprised how many times pride gets in the way of common sense. This is not the tree for learning on!
If you were a seasoned faller you would probably still use a high tie in for insurance or climb..but a soft dutchman can easily get a pretty heavy leaner to swing even 180 deg if done properly. Basically you cut in your face, gunned in the direction you want it to fall. (Nice and clean btw) then you cut in 2 or 3 successive cuts level with the face into the side you want it to swing and transfer weight, about 2 in apart (don't take them all the way in yet!!). Start your back cut with focus mainly opposite the dutchman kerfs. Go back to cutting the additional kerfs deeper into the face to get it to start movement. You may have to work back and forth from face to back cut. 
If done properly it works very well, I have taken down a large walnut with about 8 ft of heavy lean 180 deg opposite using this technique. I wish I would have filmed it now for explanation.
**I am not suggesting you do this here, just an example of how lean can be countered in the timber.**
Best of luck and be safe!


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## HuskStihl (Aug 22, 2013)

As soon as you have enough room in the backcut I'd pound in a wedge or 2 as a little insurance. I broke a good rope once and the tree went backwards into a great live oak. Six years ago, but that kinda stuff sticks with you. A couple of wedges may have prevented that. To help you understand who's who with the advice you've received, the jolly logger is a pro, and if he says hinge above the back cut then do what he says. If I have something pulling hard, I back it below, but usually I'm bashing wedges with the rope as insurance, not motivation, and try to make the back cut even with the gunning cut. If you don't think it will make you nervous, have someone video the adventure


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## Carburetorless (Aug 22, 2013)

A 50 ft pine would be fairly easy to pull over, make sure you have a proper hinge with it aimed the way you want it to go. If you have someone put tension on it with the truck, then start pulling once it starts to move the slightest bite, and keep the truck moving and pulling it on over it'll go where you want. 

As said already, make a proper hinge, and leave about 2" of hinge all the way across so it's even. I'd do a bore cut, then take the back strap out when the driver starts his final pull. Just make sure you're tied to the tree good and to the truck with proper knots that won't slip, and make sure you have enough room for the truck to pull it all the way over before you start. Check everything to be sure it's just right before you make the cut.

Or call a few services and see what they'll do it for.


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## beastmaster (Aug 22, 2013)

I'd like to see a picture. even with only a slight lean, if its heavy on the back side it could make a big difference in how much effort its going to take to pull it over or how its going to fall weather it twists or not.
Once you start that back cut your committed. If the truck can't pull it or looses traction your screwed. If the rope breaks, bye bye boat house. If the rope breaks a limb and it gets slack in it, it could let the tree set back.
I like experimenting with different kinds of cuts, but even a seasoned faller I doubt would relie on a dutchmen cut to swing a tree if there is a valuable target under it.
A picture would take a lot of guess work out of your question, and get you a better idea of what your up against. Lots of good advice giving, but what makes us experts is being able to evaluate the situation and do whats appropriate, for that we need to see the tree.


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## rwoods (Aug 22, 2013)

There is a time and place for putting the back cut below the face cut (your notch) to prevent pushing/pulling the stem off the stump and causing the tree to fall backwards. This is sometimes done as a safety precaution when the push/pull point is below the balancing point of the tree. From your description this isn't one of those times as you will be pulling from the top third of the tree. As Jon said, listen to *The JollyLogger* - tie off in the top third of the tree and place your back cut *above* your face cut. If you are unsure - get someone else to cut it for you. :msp_smile: Ron

PS FWIW, I am not recommending that you take on this tree if you have any discomfort unless a new boathouse is chump change to you. I'm an old firewood hack and though I still put sticks on the ground I no longer mess with a tree that endangers life or property when I have the slightest discomfort level as to my ability to put it down safely.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 22, 2013)

And Jon's absolutely right about backing up with wedges, every time. That will prevent setback. And, I just reread your post and had somehow gotten the impression it was a green tree, but I realize now you didn't say. That makes a difference on how I handle 'em. And Wade's right, pics help a lot. Jeff


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## jhendric (Aug 22, 2013)

The tree is very much alive (I presume that's what you mean by green). I am only cutting it because it does lean a bit over the boathouse now and the root ball is being eroded by the relentless rain we have had this year, at some point it will become a big problem. I will post some pictures, I'll take some tomorrow then post...


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## Carburetorless (Aug 22, 2013)

I've pulled pines that were twice as big, with less truck and a 1/2" rigging line rated at half of what his is, and in a tighter area. Had no problems. I did use a block attached to a huge Oak tree to redirect the line so we could pull 90 degrees, because there was no room to pull straight.

If that rope is what he says it is, he should be able to lift that entire tree straight up with it, if he had a crane or heli to do it with. I don't think pulling it over with it is going to break it, provided it's in good condition, I recon he should show us the rope to.


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## rwoods (Aug 22, 2013)

I just realized I was posting in the Tree Care forum - totally out of my league. But since I have already jumped in over my head, I generally pull with a 1" three strand nylon rope as I like the stretch - most tree care folks I know use a braided bull rope which I am sure is for good reason - anyway the two points I want to make are: 1) as noted, ropes do break but a good one of the size the OP mentioned should be more rope than his tree or his truck (I occasionally use mine attached to a 6wd M35A3 weighing with ballast around 18,000#) and 2) as also noted, you can sometimes have more tree than truck and/or traction (I have experienced a tree setting back despite a preloaded rope attached to a 6000# 4WD; of course it was considerably larger than the tree described by the OP and the tie off was not in the top third of the tree). I'm swimming for the shore now as I am out too far and too deep. Ron


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## HuskStihl (Aug 22, 2013)

Crap, do you need to pass a test to post in 101? I don't post in the arborist pro thread, I read it for the drama and fighting, but this one seems safe. People are products of their experiences, and once you have a rope that shouldn't break break, you find it harder to trust them. If that tree looks like the picture in my mind, I would bash it over with a rope for safety, but in the darkest reaches of my mind, knowing that rope will let me down. I might need some therapy. BTW, Ronnie Woods has at least 10 times my skill and experience, so if he's swimming for shore, I've probably already drowned


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## Carburetorless (Aug 22, 2013)

Sniff sniff, something smells funny; Where's Jeff?opcorn:


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 23, 2013)

Based on the specs he gave, I'm betting it's a Husky III bullrope, he won't break that, I've used em for years. No more lean than he's taliking, it could be done with a half inch on a 3-1 MA setup, but if he's got the rope and the truck, and room to pull, that's the way to go. Just make sure ya get into the top third. Green is good, the hinge will hold better. I would cut the cheeks on the notch to prevent side tear and twisting on a pine. Once you've cut your notch, just make a small relief cut from the front at a forty five about an inch in at each corner of the notch. It'll make it drop straighter. You'll be fine. Jeff


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 23, 2013)

*My concerns are not as much about the rope breaking or the truck loosing traction*

as the truck driver pulling to hard to soon. Inexperienced tree pull drivers often seem to get in to big of a hurry. 

Make a 90 degree notch so it does not close to soon and cause a barber chair. I have seen a couple caused by aggresive pulling.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 23, 2013)

Carburetorless said:


> Sniff sniff, something smells funny; Where's Jeff?opcorn:



Waiting for the pics,,,,opcorn:

Jeff


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## rwoods (Aug 23, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Crap, do you need to pass a test to post in 101? I don't post in the arborist pro thread, I read it for the drama and fighting, but this one seems safe. People are products of their experiences, and once you have a rope that shouldn't break break, you find it harder to trust them. If that tree looks like the picture in my mind, I would bash it over with a rope for safety, but in the darkest reaches of my mind, knowing that rope will let me down. I might need some therapy. BTW, Ronnie Woods has at least 10 times my skill and experience, so if he's swimming for shore, I've probably already drowned



Jon, I doubt I have either your experience or skill. I just started using the Today's Posts feature which is why I didn't know what forum I was in. Anyway, I usually stay out of this forum as the other forums are more akin to the resources I have available and the situations I encounter. I hire tree guys to cut trees that endanger structures - they can climb, they have help, they have insurance, etc. And they are usually quicker and younger than me.

I jumped into this post because techniques were offered without explanation of why they are used. A proper understanding of "why" is IMHO necessary for safety. Ron


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## Procut (Aug 23, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> Waiting for the pics,,,,opcorn:
> 
> Jeff



opcorn:


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## Stayalert (Aug 23, 2013)

I use a toyota tacoma and I would make a face in the desired direction put some tension on it start the back cut and then pull some more since you're using an f350 just pull three over....why waste time with starting the chainsaw?


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## rwoods (Aug 23, 2013)

It occurred to me after reading woodchuck357"s post, that I didn’t explain my use of a rope with stretch. First a word of caution, an unloaded “stretchy” rope is practically useless as an anchor and can be dangerous - the stretch may allow the tree to go opposite of your intended direction. The reasons I use a rope with considerable stretch are so I can pre-load the amount of force I believe is necessary to safely fall the tree and because the stretch allows to some degree a continuous pull as opposed to simply acting as a trigger to the fall. I primarily use this approach because I usually don’t have help and when help is present I am no longer willing to be on the chainsaw end of a falling operation that is relying on another lay person to actively push or pull a tree over. Pros rely on the help of others routinely, each of whom should be a pro at his own task. Ron


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## mdavlee (Aug 23, 2013)

How far is the top leaning in feet? That will show more than 5-10 degrees. I would probably just wedge the thing over and be done with it. 

Until we get pictures most of the advice is decent but more pictures will get a better understanding of what needs to be done.


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## 68 Buick (Aug 23, 2013)

I would advice to be careful when using a truck or other vehicles pulling over trees. Due to fact a driver could over pull the back cut.


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## bustedup (Aug 23, 2013)

Read your original post and what you plan to do ..........sounds ok but there again neither I nor any of the other pro's are standing there below it so it kinda hard to either say yep or nope


Best advice get someone who is a pro to do it or be there to advise ya on same. I know that not what ya wanna hear but there ya go


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## RVALUE (Aug 23, 2013)

I pulled a very similar pine over today, it broke at about 10 feet in the air.


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## bustedup (Aug 23, 2013)

RVALUE said:


> I pulled a very similar pine over today, it broke at about 10 feet in the air.



Yep things can be very uncooperative lol pulling sticks not the easiest thing to do


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 23, 2013)

If we don't see pic's soon,, then you guy's fed a troll.
Jeff opcorn:


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## miko0618 (Aug 24, 2013)

pulling it over will work. theres a few things that can go wrong that you should watch out for. one, maybe less obvious disaster, is leaving too much hinge. you can snap the tree trying to break it. or split the trunk below the notch. then theres how deep you make your face cut. the deeper it is, the easier it will fall in the right direction but the less resistance there is to it falling the wrong way. if its shallow, it will hold better but require more force to fall. so.... you don't want a real shallow face because you could snap the pole at the top trying to pull it over. and you don't want it too deep because it could fail. I would use wedges to fall it. or atleast get it close to plumb and then pull with the truck. I honestly don't like to drop whole trees. its a lot of weight and I don't trust them. if your gonna clean it up anyway, hire a pro to bring it down. a 50' pine is a 1-2 hr climb/drop. you should be able to get that done for $200-$300. maybe less.


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 24, 2013)

Oh well, even if he was a troll, the lurkers may have gotten something they can use!


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## Limbrat (Aug 24, 2013)

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is, when attaching your pull rope to the tree, be it by running bowline or whatever connection you use, make sure it is directly in the face. Otherwise, you are applying unnecessary torque which could possibly cause the tree to twist off the stump and make a big boo boo. All you Arborista Magnificos already knew that


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 24, 2013)

*It's still all about the cut!*



Limbrat said:


> One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is, when attaching your pull rope to the tree, be it by running bowline or whatever connection you use, make sure it is directly in the face. Otherwise, you are applying unnecessary torque which could possibly cause the tree to twist off the stump and make a big boo boo. All you Arborista Magnificos already knew that



Gonna disagree a little, and actually maybe backtrack the thread a little to define some terms. "Pulling" a tree, if done properly, is really just using a lateral force in the top of a tree to shift the center of gravity rather than a lifting force at the base. The goal should be the same, merely to shift the center of gravity in the intended direction of fall. A rope in a tree, whether attached to a truck or any other type of mechanical advantage, be it a comealong, pulley system or what have you is no substitute and will not make up for improper cutting techniques. If your pulling a tree and it twists off the stump, it was probably a result of bad cuts, not the pulling location. Jeff


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## HuskStihl (Aug 24, 2013)

Probably the reason I've never been super comfortable with pulling is I've never had the luxury of having someone who really knows what they're doing in the pull vehicle. That is deserved as I don't really know what I'm doing with a saw and wedges. What always happens is the driver guns it too soon, and breaks the rope, spins the tires, or breaks the tree. As a non-climber, that's why I hire one if the tree could hit something I could not easily replace


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## mdavlee (Aug 24, 2013)

Something like a block face will let the hinge bend more without breaking give more control and less chance of a twist as it goes down. The face cut should be as good as possible for any directional falling.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 24, 2013)

When I was on that pipeline contract last spring, we had a pine, about 80-90', maybe 24-28" dbh, fairly neutral balance. I would have dropped it with wedges ordinarily, but protocol was a rope in everything, which is fine. I set the rope, and this "logger" on the crew was going to cut it. No problem, I go traipsing through the jungle, find a good anchor point, loft the throwball back to him, pull the bullrope to me, and set up a 3:1 MA with a couple blocks, good to go. Set some tension, lock it off with a prussik, and start picking thorns out of my hide while he cuts his notch. He calls ready, I start pulling while he backcuts, see the top start moving, then just stop. The only smart thing he did that day was stop cutting before he cut through his hinge. He comes around and helps pull, but the tree is not coming over, I can't figure it out. I capture our progress on the line, and walk, clamber, crawl back around to check the stump, and see he had about an inch and a half dutchman on the notch ( his undercut went about an inch and a half in further than his topcut ). I didn't want to let off the tension to cut another notch above it, so I went back and rigged a 5:1 and we finally pulled it over. When we went back to the stump, there was a 3' long splinter about 4" wide at the back of the hinge. We were no longer dropping a tree, we were ripping it apart. Turns out this "logger" had been a bucker/limber on a crew with a shear, had almost no felling experience.
Moral of the story: know who you're working with, and matching those cuts is crucial to making the whole system work.


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## HuskStihl (Aug 24, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Turns out this "logger" had been a bucker/limber on a crew with a shear, had almost no felling experience.
> Moral of the story: know who you're working with, and matching those cuts is crucial to making the whole system work.



See, I thought you sounded familiar! That was actually one of my better face cuts


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 24, 2013)

I no it wusnt u cuz u can spel ur own name this gi was a prowd pruduck of the liberty cownty skool sistim


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## HuskStihl (Aug 24, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I no it wusnt u cuz u can spel ur own name this gi was a prowd pruduck of the liberty cownty skool sistim



That, and there's no way I would have stopped before cutting through the hinge. That's when all the big fun starts!


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## Limbrat (Aug 24, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Gonna disagree a little, and actually maybe backtrack the thread a little to define some terms. "Pulling" a tree, if done properly, is really just using a lateral force in the top of a tree to shift the center of gravity rather than a lifting force at the base. The goal should be the same, merely to shift the center of gravity in the intended direction of fall. A rope in a tree, whether attached to a truck or any other type of mechanical advantage, be it a comealong, pulley system or what have you is no substitute and will not make up for improper cutting techniques. If your pulling a tree and it twists off the stump, it was probably a result of bad cuts, not the pulling location. Jeff



Gotta agree and disagree a little too. You're definitely not applying LIFTING force, just the opposite if your pulling at an angle down to the ground. It's called column loading, you've INCREASED the weight on the hinge. A lateral pull would be the equivalent of redirecting your bull rope through a block in another tree at the same height of your tie on the tree to be pulled. To say that a rope choked around the back side of a tree won't affect it though is like saying a top won't spin when you wrap a string around it and pull it. The tree may fall like you planned, but the torque was there nonetheless.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 24, 2013)

Limbrat said:


> Gotta agree and disagree a little too. You're definitely not applying LIFTING force, just the opposite if your pulling at an angle down to the ground. It's called column loading, you've INCREASED the weight on the hinge. A lateral pull would be the equivalent of redirecting your bull rope through a block in another tree at the same height of your tie on the tree to be pulled. To say that a rope choked around the back side of a tree won't affect it though is like saying a top won't spin when you wrap a string around it and pull it. The tree may fall like you planned, but the torque was there nonetheless.



Very true. I guess the main point I want to make on this thread is that "pulling a tree" is a little bit of a misnomer. Whether you're pulling, wedging, jacking, etc. the main control forces, if done properly are still going to happen down at the cut. If you are relying on your rope to control the direction of fall, you need to rethink your strategy, because once you hit the tipping point and gravity takes over, it's the cuts you've made that are going to control the fall, not the rope.


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## HuskStihl (Aug 24, 2013)

Limbrat said:


> Gotta agree and disagree a little too. You're definitely not applying LIFTING force, just the opposite if your pulling at an angle down to the ground. It's called column loading, you've INCREASED the weight on the hinge. A lateral pull would be the equivalent of redirecting your bull rope through a block in another tree at the same height of your tie on the tree to be pulled. To say that a rope choked around the back side of a tree won't affect it though is like saying a top won't spin when you wrap a string around it and pull it. The tree may fall like you planned, but the torque was there nonetheless.





TheJollyLogger said:


> Very true. I guess the main point I want to make on this thread is that "pulling a tree" is a little bit of a misnomer. Whether you're pulling, wedging, jacking, etc. the main control forces, if done properly are still going to happen down at the cut. If you are relying on your rope to control the direction of fall, you need to rethink your strategy, because once you hit the tipping point and gravity takes over, it's the cuts you've made that are going to control the fall, not the rope.



Man, I was just typing out nearly the exact thing you boys just said, but my fingers were too slow:jester:


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 24, 2013)

Wen the kows kum hom, itz relly al jist thet fisiks, and geografy stuf, ur jeoligy, ur, ya know, the one thet teaches u bowt skwares n tryangles n sirkles n stuf lak that


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 24, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> If we don't see pic's soon,, then you guy's fed a troll.
> Jeff opcorn:



Grumpy ole swede, why if you were here right now, I'd, well.... I'd probably pop you some popcorn and give ya a beer and then you could tell me about how ya did it in the good ole days...:hmm3grin2orange:




Disclaimer: This post was made from pure bravado based on our geographical separation and the fact that while I know he's way bigger than me at the end of the day he's not near as mean as he want's us to believe. I will now be relocating to Russia by way of Hong Kong, (Where I hear the night life is great) and hangin' out while me and my new buddy Snowden publish our memoirs


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 24, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Grumpy ole swede, why if you were here right now, I'd, well.... I'd probably pop you some popcorn and give ya a beer and then you could tell me about how ya did it in the good ole days...:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe I will get a 'Garmin',,geta geta Garmin,,,,:msp_biggrin:
Jeff


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 24, 2013)

If you buy my book, I'll throw in a whole case of Orville Redenbachers, and I promise I won't use big words... coming soon...


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 24, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> If you buy my book, I'll throw in a whole case of Orville Redenbachers, and I promise I won't use big words... coming soon...



How many CEU's do I get?
Jeff


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 24, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> How many CEU's do I get?
> Jeff



Well, none, of course. Without a lot of big fancy words, how could they possibly authorize it?


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## Limbrat (Aug 24, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Wen the kows kum hom, itz relly al jist thet fisiks, and geografy stuf, ur jeoligy, ur, ya know, the one thet teaches u bowt skwares n tryangles n sirkles n stuf lak that



My scentamints xzakly


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## jhendric (Aug 24, 2013)

Hey Guys, well, the tree is on the ground. Went down perfectly according to plan. As for the Rope...I don't remember the brand. But I bought it from the Local Vermeer place and it cost me $350...3/4 inch green weighs a freaking ton...in fact the rope weighed so much the top of the tree was moving before I got it tight!...I got a really nice high tie by shooting a 4 ounce teardrop fishing sinker tied to Mason's twine way up...I shot it with a daisy slingshot from Wal Mart......since all the branches were on one side I was able to since the rope up without any problems. Also the branches being on one side made bucking it easy!! Thank you all for the advice, I really appreciate it!!....and thanks for the words of caution, I know from my saltwater fishing experience that newbies can get in deep! Discretion is definitely the better part of valor!

As for being a troll...no, I have lots of better things to do with my time than waste anyone else's...View attachment 311137
View attachment 311138
View attachment 311140
View attachment 311141


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## jhendric (Aug 24, 2013)

PS that yellow rope in the picture wasn't even used...I did tie two other ropes...5/8 nylon...you can see the green rope in this photo..but not a real good picture.View attachment 311142


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## jhendric (Aug 24, 2013)

Two more pictures....View attachment 311143
View attachment 311144


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## Gologit (Aug 24, 2013)

Thanks for letting us know how it turned out.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 24, 2013)

My friend, that does not suck. Very nice hinge. Good job. Jeff


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## HuskStihl (Aug 24, 2013)

No doubt, good hinge, good wedges, I'd be proud to show that off. Good on ya mate


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 25, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> Maybe I will get a 'Garmin',,geta geta Garmin,,,,:msp_biggrin:
> Jeff



I gotta Garmin yesterday, down at the pawn shop, for 30 bucks, newer and better than the one I just broke, and that "as seen on TV" green sticky phone holder thing, it really works! 

Sublime - Pawn Shop - YouTube


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## JanThorCro (Aug 25, 2013)

Nicely done. Great shot of your hinge.

I just love showing up to the School house these days. You guys keep it up and I may actually have some dry ears before I'm 70.


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## Carburetorless (Aug 25, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> Oh well, even if he was a troll, the lurkers may have gotten something they can use!



Maybe they should just shut the site down and delete the archives so the lurkers can't do that.


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## Carburetorless (Aug 25, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Grumpy ole swede, why if you were here right now, I'd, well.... I'd probably pop you some popcorn and give ya a beer and then you could tell me about how ya did it in the good ole days...:hmm3grin2orange:



He only drinks Glögg with his popcorn.


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## squirrley (Aug 26, 2013)

isaacvent said:


> Well your plan sounds pretty good really. The truck will provide more then enough pulling power and if your bull line is new and in good shape a steady pull is unlikely to break it. I would put a face cut in the direction you are pulling. Put some tension on the bull line, you should move the top of the tree a bit. Start your back cut and get a couple wedges in it asap. As you get to about 2 inches of hinge start your pull. Timing is important here. If your driver pulls too early and hard he could break the top out of the tree, also there is a potential for a barber chair. But if you keep some tension on the tree, as you cut it will start to go on its own. Its important to keep cutting as your truck is pulling the tree over. You should be left with a tree right where you want it, broken off of a 1-2inch hinge. The idea is to let the truck pull it over with a strong hinge intact to prevent it from going anywhere other then toward the truck.



Ive broke 23,ooolb rope brand new. Since he is asking, its above his experence. He needs a professional to remove it from the top.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 26, 2013)

Ummh, Squirreley, the tree's down, he did great. But if you broke a brand new bullrope, stick around, ask questions, and we'll do what we can to help you learn better techniques. Jeff


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## squirrley (Aug 26, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Ummh, Squirreley, the tree's down, he did great. But if you broke a brand new bullrope, stick around, ask questions, and we'll do what we can to help you learn better techniques. Jeff[/QUOTE
> im glad it turned out great. My point is not to attempt something new when catastrophy could result. 1 it could have been hollow was it checked. 2 was trunk/root structure observed for fungus. 3 was any trenching done in close proximity of tree. New felling techniques should be done on land clear type or in an area not suseptible to damage. As for the rope my ground guy was pulling assisted with a bobcat. As you are well aware a 23,000lb rope is at breaking strength. Minus 60% for knot = 8,625lbs divided by 5 for safty industy standard = 1,735 wll. Yes it can hold more at a reduction of the safe wll. I agree with you. I dont know it all. I base my experience on safty and have never had a insurance claim. I have had a window at FMC $586.00 due to a 1" branch slide down the window cracking the pane at the base and small stuff adding to $1800.00 in 12 years of climbing and rigging.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 26, 2013)

Welcome to AS. If you read the entire thread, you'll find he was well coached and cautioned, and felt it was within his abilities, and based on results, he done good. Are you in Katy tx? Jeff


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## squirrley (Aug 26, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Welcome to AS. If you read the entire thread, you'll find he was well coached and cautioned, and felt it was within his abilities, and based on results, he done good. Are you in Katy tx? Jeff



yup, been a long time since I was on arborsite. Didnt realize end of story. I was in Georgetown 3months ago. What a awesome town! Had coffee in the town square. Ate at Walburg (great german food).


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## HuskStihl (Aug 26, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Are you in Katy tx? Jeff



Two climbers at a GTG?:bang::jester:


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## squirrley (Aug 26, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Two climbers at a GTG?:bang::jester:



nope not from my side. I havent been on this site in years 8+. I didnt realize thread was done. See, what do i know?ah GTG = get to geather  like I said its been a while. Sure next time im in Georgetown give u a buzzzz


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## jerrycmorrow (Aug 26, 2013)

glad to see the pix. nice looking job. was gonna opine that if it was a floating boathouse you could tow it out of the way; i see now that's not the case. just sayin


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 26, 2013)

That was as good a lookin stump as you could ask for. Looks like he nailed the lay too. Jeff


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## Carburetorless (Aug 26, 2013)

squirrley said:


> My point is not to attempt something new when catastrophy could result.



You mean like when you made this post?


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## Limbrat (Aug 26, 2013)

squirrley said:


> Ive broke 23,ooolb rope brand new. Since he is asking, its above his experence. He needs a professional to remove it from the top.



Man, you must've been pulling with a D9!


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 27, 2013)

Oh, if man can make it, he can unmake it. Dynamic loads can multiply quite rapidly.


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