# Ripsaw, 300bdft, 2 1/2 hours, sort of



## woodshop (Jan 2, 2008)

Way to mill 300bd ft of mostly 5/4 (some 6/4) in only 2 1/2 hours with a little hand held bandmill from a 34" dia oak is you have to cheat. I spent almost 4 hours yesterday dropping the tree, limbing it, bucked it to 7 footers and then with the csm sliced one of them into three 9 inch wide cants. So when I ran over there again today there were the cants like sitting ducks just waiting to be picked off. Thus the 300 bd ft of oak in so little time, it was easy pickings. That 300 ft today cost me one $17 blade, 3/4 gallon of mix, little over a pint of bar oil and probably around 2000 calories. Here is the end result... now I have to unload, carry to back of yard and sticker... Maniana.


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## stonykill (Jan 2, 2008)

woodshop said:


> Way to mill 300bd ft of mostly 5/4 (some 6/4) in only 2 1/2 hours with a little hand held bandmill from a 34" dia oak is you have to cheat. I spent almost 4 hours yesterday dropping the tree, limbing it, bucked it to 7 footers and then with the csm sliced one of them into three 9 inch wide cants. So when I ran over there again today there were the cants like sitting ducks just waiting to be picked off. Thus the 300 bd ft of oak in so little time, it was easy pickings. That 300 ft today cost me one $17 blade, 3/4 gallon of mix, little over a pint of bar oil and probably around 2000 calories. Here is the end result... now I have to unload, carry to back of yard and sticker... Maniana.



nice work woodshop. That's the key to a productive day of milling, a 1/2 day or preparation. Sound like you mill as I do, with the exception of the ripsaw. I'll csm large logs into manageable cants, then just make boards with the csm. I set up 2 csm's to different thicknesses to speed the process up more. Nice work, thanks for sharing! Too much :censored: snow here to mill at the moment.I'm jealous!


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## dustytools (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice job Woodshop! The Ripsaw becomes more appealing every time I see your pics with it sitting on top of a gorgeous stack of freshly milled wood.


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## zopi (Jan 2, 2008)

I really like our setup...talk about going to the tree...only thing closer is if you 
could mill them standing with the leaves on...


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## lmbeachy (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice looking work there Woodshop, looks like you have the system down to a science.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey Zopi,

If i couldn't figure out how to "own" a bandmill, even a starter bandmill like Norwoods LL24, i'd look very hard at Woodshops setup... I think he's better off with what he has, rather than a using a Skilmill...

Good job, Woodshop!!

DM


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## woodshop (Jan 3, 2008)

*Stihl vs Husky? ...no... Ripsaw vs Skillmill*

After digging around some more on the net, got a little bigger picture of the Skillmill. Trying to be as unbiased as I possibly can, comparing the Skillmill to my Ripsaw/csm combo is sort of apples and oranges. Never having seen a Skillmill in action but taking into account others assessments from those who HAVE seen it, like Sawyer Rob, here is how I see they compare if one was inclined to match them up. 

Ripsaw/csm combo including saws is between $1800 and $2300 cheaper than Skillmill/csm combo depending on whether you buy used saws or new ones, and whether you include the cost of a 5KW generator. 

Power to punch through rock hard wood and tough knots... Ripsaw/csm have it, Skillmill apparently doesn't

Ripsaw moves through 10 inches of oak about 10-12 seconds per foot, Skillmill apparently slower than that and even then only a 4 inch cut. My csm (395/36"bar) will move through 24 inches of oak about a foot a minute, in 8 inches twice that, which might be slower than the Skillmill, don't know. So overall I'd guess the Ripsaw/csm combo is much faster than the Skillmill, probably many times faster if you are comparing bd ft output per hour or day.

Cost to run? At $115 a pop, depends on how many of those expensive proprietary blades you go through. With only 2 teeth per blade, probably easy to sharpen, but then with only two teeth, do they get dull quicker? $115 buys 6+ Ripsaw blades which with one re-sharpening each should mill you 2000+ bd ft of lumber. Will one Skillmill blade mill 2000 bd ft with one resharpening? Don't know. If I was a betting man, I'd say no. Csm with big bore drinks a lot of mix, Ripsaw (60cc) not as much. 5KW genorator... don't know how thirsty they are, so maybe a tossup here. Too many variables. 

Skill mill max cut is 4", so even to get an 8" you have to double mill (tick tock tick tock). Ripsaw will slice you up to 14" wide board one pass, and way faster. I have to admit I usually don't use many boards in the woodshop more than 8 inches wide, but there are times when I do. However, it is more effecient milling wider boards and then ripping to smaller widths in the shop than milling lots of small boards (and thus all the extra handling in between) in the first place. 

Portability. Never carried or assembled one, but after seeing the video, I'd say the Ripsaw/csm combo, even including all the accoutrement's like the aluminum guide bars that come with it, are more easily carried to the log than that Skillmill frame and motor unit, not to mention the hassle of lugging that 5KW generator back into the woods. I can guarantee you fitting that Ripsaw aluminum guide bar on a log to start milling will take way less time than assembling that Skillmill frame. 

What the Ripsaw/csm combo won't do is mill those fancy specialized boards like they show on the website by tilting the blade. However, when would you be making them out of wet lumber that will shrink and move as it dries, in the first place? I suppose there are situations. (rough cabins and chicken coops?)

What the Skillmill won't give you is exhaust fumes and ear damaging noise right in your face like the Ripsaw/csm combo will. But then a Logosol won't either if you have the kind that cranks your saw down the frame as you stand back away from it. 

So... the Ripsaw/csm combo is less expensive, faster, more portable, and will mill larger boards without the csm kerf waste. 

OK, enough Skillmill bashing... like many other types of mills, I'm sure there is a niche out there for this thing. I'm looking at it from MY perspective, with the final results tailored to MY woodworking, my portability expectations, my bang for the buck expectations and my space limitations. Obviously, necessarily a somewhat narrow perspective.


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## zopi (Jan 3, 2008)

Good post, and some valuable comparisons...i'm not kidding when i saw I like your setup....a rough point for me is the exhaust in your face...ick..

my decision making got sped up a bit today...but i'll start another thread for that...with pics..

I'm obviously going to start looking a little broader (even bands...<sigh>)

maybe the ripsaw is gonna be my option...i'll buzz on over to their site in a bit after I upload those pics....still wanta swinger tho'.....

questions for you..what do you have to go through to sharpen a ripsaw band? Do you have to have a high dollar setter and grinder or are we talking hand guide and a dremel? I file alot of chain...don't really want to handfile a band...:censored: 

what is your opinion of the ripsaw carriage system? seems a little wonky to me for some reason...

How is ripsaw for customer service?

how much is involved in maintaining the ripsaw?

I don't know how many of you gus are over on the forestry forum, but the disparity of personality/beliefs is interesting...swingers and bandsaws are the big thing over there and CSM's and bands are the thing over here...it seems there are alot of comercial sawyers over there, and a more eclectic mix over here...

you guys have me thinking...need more beer.


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## woodshop (Jan 3, 2008)

zopi said:


> ...maybe the ripsaw is gonna be my option...i'll buzz on over to their site in a bit after I upload those pics....still wanta swinger tho'.....
> 
> questions for you..what do you have to go through to sharpen a ripsaw band? Do you have to have a high dollar setter and grinder or are we talking hand guide and a dremel? I file alot of chain...don't really want to handfile a band...:censored:
> 
> ...



Band is sharpened very easily with a dremel and diamond stone, I lay the band out flat on a jig I made for that, and pull it around. You only touch each tooth for a second, just enough to put a sharp point on the tooth again. No need for setting, the band is not that wide, and you only get one re-sharpening out of it. You CAN re-sharpen second time, but it won't last long. Even after the first re-sharpening, it won't last as long as when new. Bottom line, you will get anywhere from 200 to 600 bd ft per blade, depending on what you mill, how much bark etc etc. Resharpen and get about 1/2 to 2/3 that much again. 

Ripsaw carriage... know almost nothing about it. Personal opinion is it looks a little anemic, but again, never saw one up close. 

Customer service is about as good as I've ever had... can't say anything bad about them, they have been there the few times I called them about something, and every time I order blades or parts, they are in the mail that day or next if I call late in afternoon.

Which brings me to maintenance... other than blades, I go through a $6 bearing every thousand bd ft or so. Easily replaceable held on with one hex screw. It is the thrust bearing the back of the blade rides on, there are two. They are sealed but I guess fine dirt eventually gets in and they seize up and turn blue as the blade then runs past them and they are not moving. I found if I remember to squirt some WD-40 on them every time I change blades (which I often forget to do) they last longer. But, literally only takes 60 seconds to change one out. You will end up losing a cover knob or two in the woods... so I carry few extra of them. I have had to adjust the tracking one time. It came unadjusted and the band came off the wheel and came to an abrupt halt after digging into the aluminum covers. Other than that, and giving it a good cleaning every few milling sessions, I haven't replaced another part on the thing after years, and thousands of bd ft of milling.


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## woodshop (Jan 3, 2008)

zopi said:


> ....a rough point for me is the exhaust in your face...ick..


Exhaust and dust from the mill only a foot or so from your face... if it's a windy day you don't need to worry, but if not, things can get nasty with both the csm and the Ripsaw. That's why I started wearing the mask as in this pic... once I got used to it, only takes a second to pop on, and if you get a good one with charcoal filter it takes care of exhaust as well as the very fine particulates that are no good for your lungs.


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## zopi (Jan 3, 2008)

woodshop said:


> Exhaust and dust from the mill only a foot or so from your face... if it's a windy day you don't need to worry, but if not, things can get nasty with both the csm and the Ripsaw. That's why I started wearing the mask as in this pic... once I got used to it, only takes a second to pop on, and if you get a good one with charcoal filter it takes care of exhaust as well as the very fine particulates that are no good for your lungs.



nice picture...

One of my talents is painting...I do some custom artwork on motorcycles...anything really...i pinstriped a cellphone for 20 bucks the other day...so i can see the mask helping..never occurred to me to use one because 
I wasn't exposed much using the little saw...the 660 tho' jeez...you can suck up an entire monster truck rally walking behind that thing....


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## stonykill (Jan 4, 2008)

interesting comparison woodshop. I suppose we all could say the same about our set up, that work for us. I could argue that mine is better than yours dollar for dollar. My 2 P51's that I mill with cost me under $200 for the pair. 1 new alaskan $179 including shipping and one 2nd hand alaskan $50 locally, New minimill $75 plus shipping. I also mill large logs into cants, then once I have a 10 inch wide cant, can switch to a 16 or 18 inch bar with lp chain, and mill the cants real fast with 82cc's lp chain, short bar. Its all in what works for you and your budget. 

My old P51's blow the exhaust onto the ground, not out the front of the saw and into your face. To me that makes my set up superior on that note alone.

Never mind the dollar investment. I'm pretty sure my entire setup cost less than your 395 did alone, maybe not, but pretty sure.


Good comparison. A swing mill never looked interesting to me in the least.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jan 4, 2008)

> I could argue that mine is better than yours dollar for dollar. My 2 P51's that I mill with cost me under $200 for the pair. 1 new alaskan $179 including shipping and one 2nd hand alaskan $50 locally, New minimill $75 plus shipping. I also mill large logs into cants, then once I have a 10 inch wide cant, can switch to a 16 or 18 inch bar with lp chain, and mill the cants real fast with 82cc's lp chain, short bar. Its all in what works for you and your budget.



I could argue mines even better than yours dollar for dollar....

My mill, "mills" so much faster than yours, that i can easily sell some of my lumber... I've already got back the difference i paid for my new Lumbermate over what i sold the old one for.... And everything else is paid for too...

I don't have to buy any expensive bar oil as it uses water for lube, the motor is quiet and doesn't use much fuel at all, and i bet you it will easily outlast more than one of those powerheads... I do have to change the oil in the motor once durning the summer though...

I sharpen my own bands just like i sharpen my own chains, and i could get paid to do that too, as just the "name" scares some into hireing it done!

Now, i bet there's someone who beats me too, someone "gave" theirs to them... lol lol

Rob


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## stonykill (Jan 4, 2008)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I could argue mines even better than yours dollar for dollar....
> 
> My mill, "mills" so much faster than yours, that i can easily sell some of my lumber... I've already got back the difference i paid for my new Lumbermate over what i sold the old one for.... And everything else is paid for too...
> 
> ...



Your set up wouldn't work for me. I don't have the equipment needed to haul the logs out, load 36 inch logs etc. I don't own large equiptment, just garden tractors. 

2nd I simply can't afford to buy your setup. As fast as it may be, the initial outlay for the bandsaw, larger tractor to skid the logs out, skidsteer or bucket for the large tractor I can't afford, etc. It would easily cost me $50,000 to buy everything you have new,(quad, tractor, sawmill, etc) and maybe 1/2 that used. My well under $1000 set up is the best in my book.

I can drive my Jeep or a garden tractor to a tree in the woods , knock it down, mill it, haul out the rest as firewood, all with a set up under $1000 ( I only have free garden tractors, If I count my Jeep, the cost is $2500 total, but my Jeep is daily transportation). Thats really hard to beat dollar for dollar.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jan 4, 2008)

stonykill said:


> Your set up wouldn't work for me. I don't have the equipment needed to haul the logs out, load 36 inch logs etc. I don't own large equiptment, just garden tractors.
> 
> 2nd I simply can't afford to buy your setup. As fast as it may be, the initial outlay for the bandsaw, larger tractor to skid the logs out, skidsteer or bucket for the large tractor I can't afford, etc. It would easily cost me $50,000 to buy everything you have new,(quad, tractor, sawmill, etc) and maybe 1/2 that used. My well under $1000 set up is the best in my book.
> 
> I can drive my Jeep or a garden tractor to a tree in the woods , knock it down, mill it, haul out the rest as firewood, all with a set up under $1000 ( I only have free garden tractors, If I count my Jeep, the cost is $2500 total, but my Jeep is daily transportation). Thats really hard to beat dollar for dollar.



Why would you need "everything" i have??? Why would you need a quad if you have a jeep? In fact why would you need a bigger tractor if you have a jeep???

I've done plenty of log gathering with my 4x4 Chevy with it's front mounted winch...

The jeep would pull the mill to the woodlot, skid a log out, and with a winch on it, it would skid bigger logs out... A chainsaw will easily split the biggest logs so the jeep can handle them, and the mill will saw them up with less waste and noise...

Once the logs are near the mill, the cable winch log loader/turner that Norwood offers, will easily load and turn the logs... I use my canhook very little these days...

It's much more productive to think of how something "can" be done, instead of all the reasons why it "can't" be done...

There's a guy on line who uses a small homemade log arch and his garden tractor to gather logs for his LM and it works for him...

As you make money, you buy what you need/want.... BUT, some just refuse to think out of the box....

Rob


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## stonykill (Jan 4, 2008)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Why would you need "everything" i have??? Why would you need a quad if you have a jeep? In fact why would you need a bigger tractor if you have a jeep???
> 
> I've done plenty of log gathering with my 4x4 Chevy with it's front mounted winch...
> 
> ...



look at my set up. Its blatently obvious that I do think outside of the box. 

It's all a lifestyle choice. Nearly 4 years ago I made a lifestyle change. I'm essentually a modern day homesteader. I am able to work at my business 3 days a week, spend the rest of the week doing "chores" around the property, growing food, killing food, cutting wood, milling, the list is endless. We live VERY comfortable at what is considered a wage that can't be lived on. Propery, 30 plus acres, paid for, heating bill, whats that? (its still around zero here today), bills to anyone but electricity, non existant. Someday in the future, there won't be an electric bill either. To live the "simple life" one needs to think "outside of the box" every single day. I mill more lumber than I can use now with my simple inexpensive setup. This area has more lumberyards and portable bandmills selling lumber than it needs. I simply can't justify it. I mill for my own use, not to compete with a dozen other sawyers in a 20 mile radius.

So what brought on the lifestyle change? 1st I've always wanted to live the simple life. I am just like my maternal grandfather (my mentor) in nearly every way, and we discussed living "simple" often. He lived his 72 years as simple as he could, left my grandmother with zero debt, a home to sell, and money in the bank account.

2nd was the death of my 16 year old daughter. 9 months later after I sobered up, I reallized life was too :censored: short to live a rat race, run up credit on things that I couldn't afford to pay for with cash, or barter for, and besides, I could be dead tomorrow. Why leave my wife and son with a mess to clean up. 

To clarify, I think outside the box everyday of my life! It's how I live. I mean geez, I milled for a couple of years with antique 50 cc saws, and milled thousands of feet of lumber, all for just the price of gas and oil. If thats not thinking outside the box, I don't know what is.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jan 4, 2008)

stonykill said:


> look at my set up. Its blatently obvious that I do think outside of the box.
> 
> It's all a lifestyle choice. Nearly 4 years ago I made a lifestyle change. I'm essentually a modern day homesteader. I am able to work at my business 3 days a week, spend the rest of the week doing "chores" around the property, growing food, killing food, cutting wood, milling, the list is endless. We live VERY comfortable at what is considered a wage that can't be lived on. Propery, 30 plus acres, paid for, heating bill, whats that? (its still around zero here today), bills to anyone but electricity, non existant. Someday in the future, there won't be an electric bill either. To live the "simple life" one needs to think "outside of the box" every single day. I mill more lumber than I can use now with my simple inexpensive setup. This area has more lumberyards and portable bandmills selling lumber than it needs. I simply can't justify it. I mill for my own use, not to compete with a dozen other sawyers in a 20 mile radius.
> 
> ...



Well, that's great! We are much more alike than you think... He!!, i lived in the bush in a tent for months, ate what i shot or harvested.... I live on a farm now that i paid for with hard work, much of it working with wood...

I hang out on some "homesteading" sites, and perhaps i even know you on one of them... lol

My point was/is, a bandmill really isn't as expensive as it seems... You really don't need a tractor ect..ect... I don't own my mill just to make money with, nor do i have to compete with all the other millers around here... i sell some lumber as i feel like it, or to barter for something i want... Right now i'm sawing out lumber for a guy that traded me a metal lathe, and a really "fine" industrial drill press... I really enjoy bartering!

I sold lumber in the past to pay for what i have.... so like i said, we are more alike than apart...

Anyway, it sounds like to me you have a great place over there...

Rob


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## stonykill (Jan 4, 2008)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Well, that's great! We are much more alike than you think... He!!, i lived in the bush in a tent for months, ate what i shot or harvested.... I live on a farm now that i paid for with hard work, much of it working with wood...
> 
> I hang out on some "homesteading" sites, and perhaps i even know you on one of them... lol
> 
> ...




well I guess its all homesteading from 2 different approaches. I'm on the homesteading site that ericjeeper and wdchuck go on, under this name. 

If I suddenly found myself in a situation where I could afford to pay cash for a bandmill, or traded unneeded equiptment for, sure I'd get one. I refuse to finance one tho. It's just not my style. 

The farm explains all the big boy toys.....as my wife calls them, or tools as I do.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jan 4, 2008)

> well I guess its all homesteading from 2 different approaches. I'm on the homesteading site that ericjeeper and wdchuck go on, under this name.



I don't know what site that is??? There's quite a few of them on line, and some are just too hardcore for me... When it gets down to where i have to shoot everyone i see ect.. ect.., i'm NOT into that...

One guy said he didn't have anything stocked up but guns and ammo... He said he didn't need to, because he would just go take what ever he needed as he needed it.... geeesh!

Rob


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## stonykill (Jan 4, 2008)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I don't know what site that is??? There's quite a few of them on line, and some are just too hardcore for me... When it gets down to where i have to shoot everyone i see ect.. ect.., i'm NOT into that...
> 
> One guy said he didn't have anything stocked up but guns and ammo... He said he didn't need to, because he would just go take what ever he needed as he needed it.... geeesh!
> 
> Rob



I pm'd you the site. Some of the reading is good there, some of it is stupid. I never understand when someone is on a homesteading forum and asks what 50 inch tv to buy. Lots of city people on there I guess, that think a 50 inch tv is homesteading. 

There are a lot of wacko's out there. I avoid them in person and on the net like the plague.


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## poleframer (Jan 4, 2008)

Slight thread derail, wont be the first! I'm in with this one tho. Own my 16 mtnside acres, no credit cards, no debt, bills pd (and damn few of those!). Lotta folks out there would call me poor (my income is near poverty level). 
What's yer homesite status for RE? I'm offgrid (since 93), hydro here (2" line 120 psi).
I'd appriciate a PM to those sites, might be worth a look.


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## stonykill (Jan 4, 2008)

poleframer said:


> Slight thread derail, wont be the first! I'm in with this one tho. Own my 16 mtnside acres, no credit cards, no debt, bills pd (and damn few of those!). Lotta folks out there would call me poor (my income is near poverty level).
> What's yer homesite status for RE? I'm offgrid (since 93), hydro here (2" line 120 psi).
> I'd appriciate a PM to those sites, might be worth a look.



lol, yeah I derailed this one. Won't be the last either I'm sure. 

Just under 32 acres, paid for for 10 years, business cc, paid in full everymonth, before its due. Still on grid for now. Been looking into solar, pretty pricey. Lately been thinking of harnessing the stream for some power. Also been shopping for a veggie oil generator for the workshop. I am sure I'm considered poor by monitary standards. All wood heat since 91, no backup oil, electric, gas, nothing for backup heat. Added a owb 2 years ago, it runs 24/7/365, heats the house, shop, domestic hot water. I'm going to hook that up to solar 1st, so thats self sufficient. Waiting for warmer weather. Few bills, very few bills. Electric, minimal , phone, etc, the basic stuff. Food bill is small, should be smaller, bigger garden this spring, got more free tools for the job, ( small tractor with 3 point, plow, disc, working on a homemade self powered tiller for it), also plans for an underground greenhouse Mike O...forget his last name, style. I need to get more self sufficient. Its a process. Getting it done one step at a time. I'll pm you the site I go to.


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## poleframer (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks,I'll check it out. Ya sure gotta do some weeding to get anything useful online. Heres a few shots. To stay a little on topic, one is of yesterdays haul. Remember I was talking about thirding that big fir? I'm not even halfway down the trunk on that tree. I will get some nice VG out of these chunks.
And a couple of my system. Hydro is the best investment, but it is maintance intensive,(damn snakes), and you only get so much from a given site. I expect to add panels someday.


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## Al Weber (Jan 6, 2008)

*Modern Homesteaders*

We live in southwestern NH in a rural area and I just recently retired. We moved here 10 years ago to escape the rat race in the urban NJ area. I ran a consulting firm out of my office until retirement. Several years ago some very wealthy people bought an old farm on large acreage near us. They were going to become the "simple life" folks of the region. Just after they made the announcement of how they were going to live the simple life, the female side of the couple announced she had enrolled in an expensive course on "How to Live Simply". That is almost as scary as the gun wacko who is going to take everything he needs.

I realize I am a dinosaur but people just don't get it anymore. A simple life to them means a 200 amp electrical panel and a dial up connection instead of a broad band connection and of course the 50" TV. Even those who work at simpler lifestyles can't get off the big equipment to do manual labor. Did you ever try to find someone to shovel snow off a sidewalk recently? I can hire all the plow trucks in the world but try to get someone to shovel the last 10 feet. Forget it. Oh well, I'm going to take a walk in the woods to locate some logs to slab with my little RipSaw once the 2+ feet of snow allows me to get the equipment into the woods.


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