# lot clearing advice



## cu workin (Mar 2, 2006)

some help needed: I am interested in doing some lot clearing and need some advice on ways to do it and general bidding guidelines. I have use of a skidder, dozer, bucket truck, jd 270 skid loader, dump trailer and chainsaws. I have used the above equip. in logging and tree service. 
Question: Using this equip. (plus a rented chipper) is it possible to do a good job of lot clearing? Basic steps? Advice? 
I have searched and read a few posts on lot clearing but feel I need a little more info. I also do not feel comfortable asking a competitor how they go about their bus. thank you


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## skwerl (Mar 2, 2006)

cu workin said:


> some help needed: I am interested in doing some lot clearing and need some advice on ways to do it and general bidding guidelines. I have use of a skidder, dozer, bucket truck, jd 270 skid loader, dump trailer and chainsaws. I have used the above equip. in logging and tree service.
> *Question: Using this equip. (plus a rented chipper) is it possible to do a good job of lot clearing? * Basic steps? Advice?
> I have searched and read a few posts on lot clearing but feel I need a little more info. I also do not feel comfortable asking a competitor how they go about their bus. thank you


If you know how to use the equipment, yes. But if you don't know or can't figure out how to clear a lot, all the equipment in the world won't help. My advice is to hire somebody who knows how to clear a lot and pay him well to teach you.


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## cu workin (Mar 2, 2006)

*lot clearing*

Thanks for the reply, you made a great point,hire a person to do it use equip and teaching me as we go. ---will consider
In ans. to quest. can you use equip. --yes, been using equipment for 14 years. I just don't know things like: 
Do I need an excavator or stump grinder to remove large stumps, are there many jobs where you don't need to remove stumps? I know it varys with area and job site, but is there any type of average? the dozer is a jd 650 and I know it will not push out every tree. 
Is chipping small trees and leaving the chips spread on site the norm? Then use dozer to rip out stumps and burn them?


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## Xtra (Mar 3, 2006)

I do some lot clearing. It's usually to open up a backyard.
I try to persuade the homeowner to keep the large trees and just take out the pitch (scrub) pines and trees under 10". With that kind of work we take all the wood and chips (for the pine we rent a roll-off dumpster). Stump grinding is fine since there aren't any driveways or foundations being placed over them. Plus we couldn't use heavy equipment because it would tear up the existing lawn. I use a tractor to carry the wood out.

For totally clearing an unimproved lot where you can use heavy equipment I believe they are getting $1,500 - $2,000 per acre here. They use an excavator, dig out one side of the tree and then push it over from the other side (kind of like putting your box cut under ground at the roots).

As with any of the work we do with trees . . . if you're unsure, watch an expert do it. Find someone as a mentor, ask lots of questions, and when it's your time to try it - go slow.

You could always price the job, rent the equipment and men, then any profit pays your on the job training.


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## Newfie (Mar 3, 2006)

cu workin said:


> Thanks for the reply, you made a great point,hire a person to do it use equip and teaching me as we go. ---will consider
> In ans. to quest. can you use equip. --yes, been using equipment for 14 years. I just don't know things like:
> Do I need an excavator or stump grinder to remove large stumps, are there many jobs where you don't need to remove stumps? I know it varys with area and job site, but is there any type of average? the dozer is a jd 650 and I know it will not push out every tree.
> Is chipping small trees and leaving the chips spread on site the norm? Then use dozer to rip out stumps and burn them?




You are going to discover that there will be various regional differences in land clearing techniques. Around here, tree guys do land clearing. Cut the marked areas to an agreed stump height, remove the logs and chip the rest. Smaller sites or commercial sites, sometimes the chips have to be removed.
The excavating contractor is typically resonsible for removal and disposal of stumps at the time that they do things like put in the driveway, cellar hole, and septic. Leaving ground stumps under the grade on a constuction site is bad practice and will lead to complications.

Pushing over trees with equipment is a dangerous practice at best. You really have no control from keeping the tree from coming back over the blade of a dozer or slipping off the end of an excavator bucket. In rare circumstances, when working in conjunction w/ the excavating contractor we have used heavy equipment to persuade a tree but only after properly notching and backcutting the tree.

If you don't have any experience working w/ trees I would get some of that before trying to clear lots.


$1500-$2000 an acre seems way too cheap. I get over $3000 an acre and that is for just the trees. I only know of one contractor around my area that does the stumps as part of the job and he is a large commercial scale operation, completely mechanized. He doesn't have a chipper, but uses a peterson horizontal grinder. He produced over 4000 cords of firewood logs last year, plus hundreds of thousands of bf of white pine and hardwood saw logs.

But Mass is a long way from NJ or MN so things could be completely different there.


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## Xtra (Mar 3, 2006)

In my area of NJ the trees aren't very big and I think the price of disposal is extra on the $1500 - 2000 figure. I also agree that pushing over trees isn't that safe. 
I get some work from land clearing companies for dropping the trees that are too close to existing structures or are too tough for their non-climbing guys to drop.


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## clearance (Mar 3, 2006)

Newfie, Xtra-Nothing wrong with using a cat or hoe to push trees if the machine is properly set up and the op. is experienced. By set up I mean the machine has to have an enclosed roll over protection structure (EROPS), basically a big cage around the op. Hoes should never push trees with a cleanout bucket, they should use a rock bucket or a clearing rake. Cats need a single tooth ripper so that they can bust the roots on one side of the tree and then push it over the other way. If you are hand falling and using the machine to push, do this: get the machine directly behind the tree, put in an undercut, get some pressure against the tree, just enough so your saw doesn't pinch, not enough for a barberchair. Make the backcut, go away, when at a safe distance get the op. to push it over. Remember, a cat cannot reach as high as a hoe, so do not get carried away with leaners. Hope this helps, be safe.


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## CaseyForrest (Mar 3, 2006)

Youd be surprised the size tree you can fell with a small dozer.

The technique is taught and approved by any Equipment Opeartor instructor. You dont need a ripper either.

We will use North, East, South and West as orientation.


First pass, running North, use the corner of the Blade and make one or two passes cutting roots. Then turn and head West, repeat procedure but this time make 3 passes, digging deeper with each pass. Now...your South pass you will skip as this will act as your hinge, and also not allow the tree to go any direction it wants. Go right to your east pass and give it a good 3 passes. 

After you have completed your cutting passes, starting at your first pass heading North, facing the tree(you will be facing West,) start in your trench and get your blade under the roots you previously severed and as you cat forward raise your blade and attempt to tip the tree over. You may have to sever more roots on your side trenches, but it will topple.

I have taking down 4-5' diameter trees using a Cat D4 with this technique. 

Now...if you have a big enough dozer...you can cat up to the tree and just push it over, doesnt hurt to try this first.


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## clearance (Mar 3, 2006)

Casey, that is cool, mostly hoes are used here for landclearing. I have always worked with hoes, just watched guys using cats to push and help to fall. Hoes are fun to work with but, as I guess you know, a good operator is as important as a good faller. Better explanation, if you have a big yellow wedge to help then that ain't really falling.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Mar 3, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Youd be surprised the size tree you can fell with a small dozer.
> ....
> 
> I have taking down 4-5' diameter trees using a Cat D4 with this technique.
> ...




Dunno what technique he used, or how big his dozer was, but my father made his living cutting roads through the Rockies before WWII. He dropped a lot of big trees in those days. 

And at least one bear.


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## CaseyForrest (Mar 4, 2006)

Using a hoe is definetly alot easier.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Mar 4, 2006)

We use a brush mower first, to cut all the little stuff. The chips just lay on the ground.
Then we go through with a tree shear on a bobcat and remove anything we can. It all gets cut and put in rows for easy chipping. A bobcat with a grapple works well for this, or a self propelled chipper with a prentice loader. What happens to the chips is up to the landowner. It cost so much per load to haul away, or you can just spray them around.
The big trees are then cut into saw logs, while the tops are chipped like the smaller trees.
The stumps can be ground, or an excavator with a stump splitter can smash them up.
The cost is highly variable depending mostly on how dense the growth and what saw logs can be harvested.


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## PWB (Mar 4, 2006)

Have used Casey's technique to remove stumps with a road grader. Not ideal, a little slower, but it works. You use what ya got handy, right?


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## CaseyForrest (Mar 4, 2006)

Thats right...when work needs to be done....you use what ya got.


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## Diesel JD (Mar 4, 2006)

Around here, I have generally seen land clearing be done this way. The operator uses a farily good sized bulldozer to push the trees over and then cuts the big trees to length for pulpwood, firewood, or the sawmill or else leaves it for firewood guys like me. Then they burn the small stuff. It would be more eco friendly to chip the small stuff and renaturalize the area admittedly. Any big trees that survive teh land clearing are either kept or if teh homeowner wants them gone are taken down by a pro. Not saying that is the best practice, but that's what I have seen.
J.D.


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## Yellowdog (Mar 5, 2006)

If you don't have any experience working w/ trees I would get some of that before trying to clear lots.
$1500-$2000 an acre seems way too cheap. I get over $3000 an acre and that is for just the trees. I only know of one contractor around my area that does the stumps as part of the job and he is a large commercial scale operation said:


> $3000/AC? I want to move!
> 
> Down here, there are guys clearing for $100/AC on multiple acres using a dozer.
> 
> ...


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## Yellowdog (Mar 5, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> We use a brush mower first, to cut all the little stuff. The chips just lay on the ground.
> Then we go through with a tree shear on a bobcat and remove anything we can. It all gets cut and put in rows for easy chipping. A bobcat with a grapple works well for this, or a self propelled chipper with a prentice loader. What happens to the chips is up to the landowner. It cost so much per load to haul away, or you can just spray them around.
> The big trees are then cut into saw logs, while the tops are chipped like the smaller trees.
> The stumps can be ground, or an excavator with a stump splitter can smash them up.
> The cost is highly variable depending mostly on how dense the growth and what saw logs can be harvested.



Okay, so you are doing it my way!  Just kidding. That's how we do it here except that we don't do saw logs. Oaks that come out are invariably wilt ridden and unless you want to trim all the limbs, juniper logs are too hard to work with.


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## clearance (Mar 5, 2006)

Here the typical land/lot clearing job goes like this-big hoe, 200 size with a thumb and rock bucket (Hitachi ex200, Cat 225 or equiv., JD 690 sizes). The trees get pushed over or the hoe helps the faller, the big trees get picked up and the faller limbs and bucks them to length, the hoe decks them. All the stumps get ripped out and given the death shake, the stumps, branches, cull logs etc. get stuffed into triple axle bin trailers and hauled away. The logging truck picks up all the merch. logs. A good hoe op and a good guy with a big saw can really cause devestation in one day, I miss it.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Mar 6, 2006)

clearance said:


> All the stumps get ripped out and given the death shake, the stumps, branches, cull logs etc. get stuffed into triple axle bin trailers and hauled away.



Hauled away to where?


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## RandyS (Mar 6, 2006)

Mike, around here the stumps can get taken to a place where you pay them to take them. Then you drive down to the other side of the grinder and buy it back as mulch.
Hard to get rid of otherwise.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Mar 6, 2006)

That's great if it's a one time deal for a homeowner, but for a land clearing contractor, pushing trees over with heavy equipment and getting it all full of dirt, creating huge piles of pushed over trees and stumps, begs the question, what happens to all this stuff?
Why is a stump attached to a tree, laying on it's side, easier to deal with than a stump securely in the ground, where it can be ground away?
Where are landfill costs for brush less than resale prices for wood chips?


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## CaseyForrest (Mar 6, 2006)

Its illegal (in MI anyway) for yard waste to enter a sanitary landfill. It must be taken to a compost facility and ground.

And yes, trees are considered yard waste according to the MDEQ.


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## clearance (Mar 6, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> Hauled away to where?


To a stump dump, of course! Companies are starting to get huge tub grinders now, stump dumps can be bad because of what may one day happen to the land.


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