# Sending Down the Saw



## slowp (May 19, 2008)

I almost threw stuff at the TV last night! Was watching the drama of Ax Men, and while they were yanking on "an 80 foot log" which took *45 minutes* to yard up to the landing, I couldn't figure out why they didn't send a saw down and cut it into 2 forties? Aren't Oregon rigging crews allowed to play with saws? Are delimbers also called "deliminators"?
I am quite disappointed. I thought Oregon had perfect loggers!


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## splittah (May 19, 2008)

You know... I was wondering why they didn't get a saw and cut it also.. I still think the show is interesting to watch.


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## LarryTheCableGuy (May 19, 2008)

Maybe they could have shipped it up to Warshington to get "chopped" into two 39 foot pieces and then sent back so that they could have yarded it.

.


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## 2dogs (May 19, 2008)

I'd bet 90% of the people watching last night thought the same thing. I sure did.


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## windthrown (May 19, 2008)

slowp said:


> I almost threw stuff at the TV last night! Was watching the drama of Ax Men, and while they were yanking on "an 80 foot log" which took *45 minutes* to yard up to the landing, I couldn't figure out why they didn't send a saw down and cut it into 2 forties? Aren't Oregon rigging crews allowed to play with saws? Are delimbers also called "deliminators"?
> I am quite disappointed. I thought Oregon had perfect loggers!



I was befuddled with that scene myself. I thought that half way through they were going to cut it in half, since it was almost broken in half anyway. But they tried to lift it up and drop it to break it up instead, risking snapping the cables and breaking the carriage, and whatever else if half the log rolled down the hillside. Then they risked snapping the skyline again putting the gear box in low. BUT THE BEST PART WAS THAT THE LOG WAS HOLLOW! Useless. The guys at the landing were looking at it and thinking that the rigging crew was on drugs. All that time and struggle for a useless hollow hemlock log? If it was not for the hurricane, someone would have been yelled at. 

Nice water feature photos later in the show though. We get that type of rain and flooding almost every year here. And we had lesser hurricane force winds here on the coast in an earlier storm about 10 days before that storm. We were spared the worst of that storm wind-wise, but we got more rain down here. I was out clearing culverts and mudslides for a week. The creek here spilled its banks and flooded the pastures. As for the Columbus Day Storm that they also covered, I lived through that one as well. Was a tyke in Portland when that one blew through from Northern California. That was the BIG one. Though I was up on Highway 26 the day it opened in late December last year, and the damage was severe, and impressive. Mighty Dougs were tipped over like dominoes, or snapped like toothpicks.


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## woodfarmer (May 19, 2008)

what channel is the show on and what time and day?


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## huskykid141 (May 19, 2008)

*axmen*

it is on the history channel at 10:00pm on sundays. i think it was dumb that they didn't just cut the log in half after the first 5 minutes never mind 45 minutes. The crew was complaining about not being able to finish the job in time and then they go and waste 45 minutes on a useless hollow hemlock log.


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## custom8726 (May 19, 2008)

I missed it last night. Do they do re-runs through out the week?? I am not overley impressed with the show but anything pertaining to saws and trees generally keeps my interest.


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## Adkpk (May 19, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> Do they do re-runs through out the week??



Yes.


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## custom8726 (May 19, 2008)

Adrpk said:


> Yes.



OK, and now when?


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## slowp (May 19, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> OK, and now when?



It seems to be on whenever they want. A coworkers boys are hooked on the show and watch it every time they can. 

I also couldn't figure out why they didn't stage log around the tree that the guy cut while standing in the midst of the blowdown...Oh well, I'm not there so who knows? The flooding made me feel icky as we got it bad here in 2006.
The storm shown on Axmen hit the west part of our county hard with flooding and blowdown. I think our lights went out for a few hours and that was it.


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## Humptulips (May 20, 2008)

Slowp,
I can tell you are a bit inland or you would have taken more note of that storm. SW WA and NW OR took a beating from that storm. We were without power for a week here. No phone either not even cell. I've heard estimates of 700 million feet went down on private land in WA. I would bet an equal amount in OR. Those figures don't involve public land either. There are 50 million on the ground behind my house on USFS land. I would say it was every bit as bad as the Columbus day storm from my memory but I was a little fella when that happened.


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## turnkey4099 (May 20, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> OK, and now when?




Here the new episode runs at 11 pm Sunday. Prior episodes rerun during the evening on Sunday's (maybe other days too, I didn't notice).

IIANM they only have 2 more new episodes to go.

Harry K.


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## turnkey4099 (May 20, 2008)

slowp said:


> I almost threw stuff at the TV last night! Was watching the drama of Ax Men, and while they were yanking on "an 80 foot log" which took *45 minutes* to yard up to the landing, I couldn't figure out why they didn't send a saw down and cut it into 2 forties? Aren't Oregon rigging crews allowed to play with saws? Are delimbers also called "deliminators"?
> I am quite disappointed. I thought Oregon had perfect loggers!




You too? I thought my wife was going to throw something at me for my yelling at the TV.

Another part of the idiocy was the discussion of how heavy, it might break something, it might pull the high line.

'That's O.K., I'll just put 'er in low gear' Is that some new physics law that says shifting gear changes the loading on the rigging?

Harry K


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## Gologit (May 20, 2008)

slowp said:


> I almost threw stuff at the TV last night! Was watching the drama of Ax Men, and while they were yanking on "an 80 foot log" which took *45 minutes* to yard up to the landing, I couldn't figure out why they didn't send a saw down and cut it into 2 forties? Aren't Oregon rigging crews allowed to play with saws? Are delimbers also called "deliminators"?
> I am quite disappointed. I thought Oregon had perfect loggers!



Too much drama. Not enough logging.


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## slowp (May 20, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Too much drama. Not enough logging.



That sums up more than the show!


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## tramp bushler (May 21, 2008)

*you said it*



Gologit said:


> Too much drama. Not enough logging.



That has been my thots on the show so far ....They kind of make a story where there is none .....

It is still fun to watch most of the time tho ...


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## Gologit (May 21, 2008)

slowp said:


> That sums up more than the show!



LOl...You are so right. We start hoot-owl Monday...and it's not even June yet. Spooky.


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## slowp (May 21, 2008)

Gologit said:


> LOl...You are so right. We start hoot-owl Monday...and it's not even June yet. Spooky.



Well, I was looking for units on a sale yesterday and there was this strange red flagging tied all over that said SPOT FIRE on it. I pull over for lunch (yes other than cutting some trees out of the way it was a drive around and find stuff day) and a state guy comes driving up wanting to know if I'd seen our engine up there. There actually was a fire there. I was thinking that maybe the logger had already been there and happened to have that flagging. That's how many fires we get here and in May? But it dumped rain enough yesterday for me to get twice soaked. Too warm for raingear if you move. It is raining this morning too. I'll send some south because we can afford it this year.


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## windthrown (May 21, 2008)

slowp said:


> That sums up more than the show!



Indeed! 

I get irritated with the 'fake competitive' numbers of truckloads of logs that they haul off the mountains at the end of the show. Its not like there is a total bag limit that ends the logging season, like in fishing or crabbing. "Oh look, the larger logging company slicked off and hauled more logs!" Imagine that!


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## perrihatch (May 21, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Too much drama. Not enough logging.



True that


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## windthrown (May 21, 2008)

Gologit said:


> LOl...You are so right. We start hoot-owl Monday...and it's not even June yet. Spooky.



Wow. It is all still emerald green here, even mid-state where it usually turns brown by now. We had snow on the ground what, 3 weeks ago? One week of a mini-heat wave last week, and that was it. Back to rain here again. We are not even at semi-hoot owl yet (no logging 1pm to 8pm). I am taking advantage of the rain and cool weather to finish burning.


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## Adkpk (May 21, 2008)

Gologit said:


> We start hoot-owl Monday...



Ahh, hoot owl? Something is telling me I'm gonna be sorry I asked. :hmm3grin2orange: 



windthrown said:


> Indeed!
> 
> I get irritated with the 'fake competitive' numbers of truckloads of logs that they haul off the mountains at the end of the show. Its not like there is a total bag limit that ends the logging season, like in fishing or crabbing. "Oh look, the larger logging company slicked off and hauled more logs!" Imagine that!



Good point, more beer for windthrown.


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## Adkpk (May 21, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> OK, and now when?





Sorry, custom didn't see that post. Wednesday night at 10 pm and Thurs. at 2am here.


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## slowp (May 21, 2008)

*Hootowl*

Hootowl is the name for the cutback in hours when fire danger gets up there. Let me see, I should have this memorized. Falling is allowed to work from 8PM? until 1PM, there are similar hours/restrictions for cable yarding. It is basically a partial shutdown. I think I better find my little cheater card. We're still getting very blustery, wet weather here.


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## Cedarkerf (May 21, 2008)

Rained cats and dogs and elk and beavers and deer and moose........... Wow May 21st pouring rain and 50 degrees.


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## 2dogs (May 22, 2008)

slowp said:


> Hootowl is the name for the cutback in hours when fire danger gets up there. Let me see, I should have this memorized. Falling is allowed to work from 8PM? until 1PM, there are similar hours/restrictions for cable yarding. It is basically a partial shutdown. I think I better find my little cheater card. We're still getting very blustery, wet weather here.



Here they are called Red Flag Days. Not much internal combustion can take place then.


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## turnkey4099 (May 22, 2008)

2dogs said:


> Here they are called Red Flag Days. Not much internal combustion can take place then.



I though red flag days shut down logging totally, Hoot owl is only part of day shut down.

Harry K


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## windthrown (May 22, 2008)

In OR, the fire districts and commercial logging and recreation restrictions are managed by the ODF (Orygun Dept. of Foestry). The ODF uses the Industrial Fire Precaution Levels (IFPL) for fire control. There are other requirements for times for fire watch, water and fire fighting equipment that must be on site when logging. 

The IFPL are as follows. 

I. Closed Season

Fire season requirements are in effect. In addition to other fire prevention measures, a Fire Watch is required at this and all higher levels unless otherwise waived.

II. Partial Hootowl
The following may operate only between the hours of 8 P.M. and 1 P.M.

.power saws except at loading sites 
.cable yarding 
.blasting 
.welding or cutting of metal 

III. Partial Shutdown
The following are prohibited except as indicated:

.cable yarding - except that gravity operated logging systems employing non-motorized carriages may operate between 8 P.M. and 1 P.M. when all blocks and moving lines are suspended 10 feet above the ground except the line between the carriage and the chokers 

.power saws - except power saws may be used at loading sites and on tractor/skidder operations between the hours of 8 P.M. and 1 P.M. 
In addition, the following are permitted to operate between the hours of 8 P.M. and 1 P.M.:

.tractor/skidder, feller-buncher, forwarder, or shovel logging operations where tractors, skidders or other equipment with a blade capable of constructing fireline are immediately available to quickly reach and effectively attack a fire start 

.mechanized loading or hauling of any product or material 
.blasting 
.welding or cutting of metal 
.any other spark emitting operation not specifically mentioned 

IV. General Shutdown
All operations are prohibited.

NOTE: Where hauling involves transit through more than one shutdown/regulated use area, the precaution level at the woods loading site shall govern the level of haul restriction, unless otherwise prohibited by other than the industrial precaution level system. 

NOTE: The IFPL system does not apply on lands protected by ODF east of the summit of the Cascades. 

The following definitions shall apply to these industrial fire precaution levels: 

Loading sites: A place where any product or material (including, but not limited to logs, firewood, slash, soil, rock, poles, etc.) is placed in or upon a truck or other vehicle.

Cable yarding system: A yarding system employing cables, and winches in a fixed position.

Low hazard area: Any area where the responsible agency representative (WDNR, ODF, USFS, BIA, BLM) determines the combination of the elements reduces the probability of a fire starting and/or spreading.

Closed season (Fire precautionary period): that season of the year when a fire hazard exists as declared by the responsible agency official.


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## Gologit (May 22, 2008)

turnkey4099 said:


> I though red flag days shut down logging totally, Hoot owl is only part of day shut down.
> 
> Harry K



Depends. It can change from day to day and location to location. We try to be site-specific as much as we can but when it gets real bad they'll shut an entire area down. I've seen county wide and even multi-county shut downs in particularly bad years.

When you see the forester coming up the road at a high rate of speed with a fi####l of papers clutched in one hand, the radio mike in the other, steering with his knees and looking all wild-eyed you can figure things are about to change...again.


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## custom8726 (May 22, 2008)

Adrpk said:


> Sorry, custom didn't see that post. Wednesday night at 10 pm and Thurs. at 2am here.



Thank you sir!!


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## windthrown (May 22, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Depends. It can change from day to day and location to location. We try to be site-specific as much as we can but when it gets real bad they'll shut an entire area down. I've seen county wide and even multi-county shut downs in particularly bad years.



Raging fires in the Santa Cruz mountains, and it is only May!?!? It is going to be a bad fire year in CA. Lots of fires down in FL too. Of course, according to my fireman buddies, every year is a bad year. Lots or rain? More fuel to burn later! No rain? Dry as a stick and ready to burst into flames now! 

Still green and raining here. OR has had few fires in recent years. Time for me to go burn some more house-size slash piles here today.


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## 2dogs (May 22, 2008)

windthrown said:


> Raging fires in the Santa Cruz mountains, and it is only May!?!? It is going to be a bad fire year in CA. Lots of fires down in FL too. Of course, according to my fireman buddies, every year is a bad year. Lots or rain? More fuel to burn later! No rain? Dry as a stick and ready to burst into flames now!
> 
> Still green and raining here. OR has had few fires in recent years. Time for me to go burn some more house-size slash piles here today.



Thee fire started at 05:30 and by 09:00 it was around a thousand acres. The wind is howling this morning! Several friends have been evac out, there is a large camp used a science camp right in the path of the fire.

http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/incidents/incidents


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## slowp (May 22, 2008)

And it was a foggy, drizzly day here. I have the furnace going! I needed Darryl from the show to cut blowdown. All I see down the road I'm working on is more blowdown in the road. Can't turn firewood cutters loose, and not worth enough to put on a log truck.


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## 2dogs (May 23, 2008)

The fire hit about 3000 acres by nightfall. I was at my inlaws all day 2 miles from the wire. The wind kept blowing till 5:00pm. Several friends live in the path of the fire and none know if they still have a house. My wife got called in to work the EOC buy info was sparse. USFS even sent an engine strike team. C130s worked the fire along with helos, I did not see any small air tankers from my vantage point. 30 structures lost seems to be the best guess. I'll post some pics when I'm not so tired.


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## LarryTheCableGuy (May 23, 2008)

...and down south from there we has three hours of snow this morning.

Normally it would be cool and damp in Santa Cruz while we are hot & dry here.

Oddness.

.


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## lt1nut (May 23, 2008)

Would it be too simplistic for me to think that if more was logged the fires would not be as large or severe?

What else can be done to get rid of all the undergrowth that burns so easily, or do I not understand it correctly?

Wouldn't it make sense to get rid of all trees over say, 15 feet tall, within 100 feet of all structures? Yes, I KNOW living in the woods is nice and all but come on.

Yes, I am a flat-lander but do have a cabin up in the woods up Nort and lived in the L.A. area '76-'81 and remember spending time in Lake Arrowhead/Big Bear/Crestline. Some of those places you could reach off the deck(s) and touch a large tree...:jawdrop:


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## Gologit (May 23, 2008)

slowp said:


> And it was a foggy, drizzly day here. I have the furnace going! I needed Darryl from the show to cut blowdown. All I see down the road I'm working on is more blowdown in the road. Can't turn firewood cutters loose, and not worth enough to put on a log truck.



Send a little of that foggy drizzle down here...we can use it. And maybe some huckleberry pie to go with it?


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## slowp (May 23, 2008)

And I'll send a chocolate lab too. Nah, he probably really had to go at 2:30AM
and me getting up is better than the alternative. I'll send the fog, but I want to keep it here too, but I'm out of berries. Wait 3 more months for those.


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## Gologit (May 23, 2008)

slowp said:


> And I'll send a chocolate lab too. Nah, he probably really had to go at 2:30AM
> and me getting up is better than the alternative. I'll send the fog, but I want to keep it here too, but I'm out of berries. Wait 3 more months for those.



No more dogs!!! We alread have two Queensland Healers and a Golden Questionmark. The GQ just kind of wandered in one day, took a look around, and decided this was dog heaven.

If I ever get another dog it'll probably be a Lab, though. I had one for fourteen years...he was born, lived his whole life, and died, right here on this ranch.

Good huckleberry pie is worth waiting for. I'll try to be patient.


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## slowp (May 24, 2008)

He is a very strange dog. If he hadn't come prenamed, I'd call him Strange. He hangs out in the bedroom for some reason. I think I scared him when I put mouse traps on the couch to keep him off. He did pile the pillows up neatly though. I'll make THE vet appt. next week as I think he has romantic intentions for the young black lab "Olive" next door.


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## turnkey4099 (May 25, 2008)

slowp said:


> He is a very strange dog. If he hadn't come prenamed, I'd call him Strange. He hangs out in the bedroom for some reason. I think I scared him when I put mouse traps on the couch to keep him off. He did pile the pillows up neatly though. I'll make THE vet appt. next week as I think he has romantic intentions for the young black lab "Olive" next door.



Strange? A steal from Patrick F. McManus? He had a dog by that name in several of his yarns.

Harry K


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## windthrown (May 25, 2008)

That area (I lived down there for over 20 years myself in Monterey and Gilroy and Campbell) is a mix of forests/trees and open areas, called chaparral. The chaparral has grass and shrubs. Of late scotch brooms have invaded the coastal mountains from San Diego to BC, and it is nearly impossible to get rid of. Mow it down and it just grows back. Wildfires whip through that stuff like crazy. So logging would not be very effective for fire control, and people that live in the woods live there becasue its the woods. There are a mix of mostly oaks and bay trees, Monterey pines and doug firs and scattered redwoods. Not very commercially loggable. Also ceanothis and manzanita, and madrones grow there too. And non-native 'weed' trees like eucalyptus. Not as dense as the forests here in the PNW, but even with no trees around, the shrubs and grasses can burn your house down just as fast. I saw some HUGE wildfires take out whole neighborhoods in San Diego, where there are few trees and mostly grass and bush. And houses with shake roofs... (flamable rooftops in a fire zone? What were they thinking when they built those houses, anyway?  ). 

Keeping the house clear of trees and shrubs and grass is a good idea. I do fire control here, and we have no trees within 200 feet of the house. More to defend it from windthrow, but also to protect us from fires. We also mow the anual grasses this time of year when the seeds have set to keep the foxtails down, and for fire control. We are liable if a fire starts in one of our pastures that are dry and not mowed. We are also liable if a fire starts in one of our slash piles and something like lightning strikes. I am torching off all of last fall's slash piles from thinning last year. Burning this week in the light drizzle, keeps the fires under control. We also do a lot of brush control, and mechanically remove and spray the scotch broom. But that stuff keeps coming back, with the hawthorn and blackberries. And the grasses. And the trees. Tress here are rather invasive, especially the firs. And once the trees row, they need to be thinned, and the shrubs under them need to be cleared. Its an endless task. And the stumps, and nurse logs. Its all flamable, really. 




lt1nut said:


> Would it be too simplistic for me to think that if more was logged the fires would not be as large or severe?
> 
> What else can be done to get rid of all the undergrowth that burns so easily, or do I not understand it correctly?
> 
> ...


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## slowp (May 25, 2008)

turnkey4099 said:


> Strange? A steal from Patrick F. McManus? He had a dog by that name in several of his yarns.
> 
> Harry K



Yes it is. Actually, after discussion by beers, it was brought up that his dog's original name was Stranger, but shortened to Strange, as it described the dog better. But a used dog comes with a name so to lessen the trauma of the new home, I'm not changing it. This dog is so strange--doesn't want to check out or roll in road kill, same with different kinds of poop. 

Hey Gologit! The mill rep I met with the other day has 5 antennas on his pickup. That's more than our cops. So he shouldn't be asking me any questions, right?


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## 2dogs (May 25, 2008)

It sounds as if Ax Men will be back next season eh?


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## Burvol (May 25, 2008)

slowp said:


> And it was a foggy, drizzly day here. I have the furnace going! I needed Darryl from the show to cut blowdown. All I see down the road I'm working on is more blowdown in the road. Can't turn firewood cutters loose, and not worth enough to put on a log truck.



I'd be more than happy to drive up and cut some blow down with ya, I'm only an hour and half away if the road through Trout Lake is open. But, wages would probably be too much for the State, unless it had to go, and I'm fairly reasonable! I cut a lot of DNR timber last year. Maybe you could better explain the Basil inch thing on here. I confused a few people.


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## treemandan (May 25, 2008)

If you are still talking about the lameness of that Tv show although I have never seen it I might know why people feel its lame. CENSORSHIP! They say" Nope! You can't do THAT on TV, it will get people upset." But that is just my feeling because if they filmed my set up they surley would be stricken!


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## Gologit (May 25, 2008)

slowp said:


> Hey Gologit! The mill rep I met with the other day has 5 antennas on his pickup. That's more than our cops. So he shouldn't be asking me any questions, right?



Yup. There's a correlation between the number of antennas on the pickup, the sense of self-importance of the person driving the pickup, and the amount of actual practical knowledge he has. It's also been noted by more than one observant logger that the more antennas on the pickup the more serious the demeanor of the driver. I guess all those antennas preclude common civility...or even a smile. We tend to remember things like that when they've got themselves stuck or backed over the bank trying to turn around someplace slightly shorter than their pickup.

We had one get stuck in an old landing where he had no real reason to be. He called on the radio (naturally) for a Cat and when the Cat showed up he hollered at the Catskinner to get off the Cat to hook onto his pickup because the mud was deep and he didn't want to track mud on his new boots and into his new pickup. The Catskinner drove off and left him right there. I guess somebody must have pulled him out eventually because we used that landing the next week and there wasn't anybody there but us. The guy with the many-antennaed pickup never did come back.

Once we get to know them and give them a type-rating and decide how seriously we have to take them we usually quit running them up the bank on switchbacks and oreo-ing them when we park trucks and Cats and stuff. Sometimes, anyway.


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## slowp (May 26, 2008)

If you put your rig in 4 wheel drive and can thump over down trees, the branches will scrape the mud off the undercarriage and keep the extra weight off, thereby increasing fuel economy. At least that's what I told our fleet manager after he mumbled something about maybe I shouldn't get a new pickup. Actually, I agree with him but I would like a shorter wheelbase.


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## Gologit (May 26, 2008)

slowp said:


> If you put your rig in 4 wheel drive and can thump over down trees, the branches will scrape the mud off the undercarriage and keep the extra weight off, thereby increasing fuel economy. At least that's what I told our fleet manager after he mumbled something about maybe I shouldn't get a new pickup. Actually, I agree with him but I would like a shorter wheelbase.



Yup...pickups are just another tool. They're not a fashion statement. Well, not after the first season anyway.


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## turnkey4099 (May 27, 2008)

It was back to 'throw stuff at teh TV" again last night. All it was a re-run of clips of the staged screw-ups from past episodes plus repeated announcements that there were still 2 more episodes to go.

At least they were shamed enough not to re-run that asinine 'drag the big log up the hill in 45 minutes' abortion.

Harry K


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