# Log arch behind a walk behind tractor



## camel2019 (Apr 20, 2022)

Around here the woods are tight and using a tractor in them is not easy. So what I’m thinking is build a log arch/sulky seat and a log dolly for the other end to wheel the logs out of the wood lot with a walk behind tractor.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 20, 2022)

im all for enginuity, but...

logs do wild **** when being dragged, defying physics and gravity

so take a thought and consider using a winch instead


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## camel2019 (Apr 20, 2022)

northmanlogging said:


> im all for enginuity, but...
> 
> logs do wild **** when being dragged, defying physics and gravity
> 
> so take a thought and consider using a winch instead


Building a winch with what I have on hand is not really an option(would need a manual trans and a truck rear end that would need to be shortened) and cable ain’t cheap. this would be used a a few times to get the logs I need to mill some lumber up.


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## camel2019 (Apr 20, 2022)

Something like this but I need 16 to 17 foot logs mainly pine and spruce.


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## camel2019 (Apr 20, 2022)

I can use the walk behind or my Massey Ferguson 8 i have pulled more then I probably should have with that lawn tractor.


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## rwoods (Apr 20, 2022)

If you aren’t working on flat ground, you should think of something different. A log and gravity can easily overcome a walk-behind. Bad enough with only one end elevated. Both ends raised raises the risks IMO.

Ron


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## camel2019 (Apr 20, 2022)

rwoods said:


> If you aren’t working on flat ground, you should think of something different. A log and gravity can easily overcome a walk-behind. Bad enough with only one end elevated. Both ends raised raises the risks IMO.
> 
> Ron


Essex county(Ontario)is flat as a board not much for hills or the like only time you see stuff like that is when it’s man made.


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## rwoods (Apr 20, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> Essex county(Ontario)is flat as a board not much for hills or the like only time you see stuff like that is when it’s man made.




Might just be the cat's meow for you - so long as you don't have to stop quickly. 

Ron


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## camel2019 (Apr 20, 2022)

rwoods said:


> Might just be the cat's meow for you - so long as you don't have to stop quickly.
> 
> Ron


Lol yes and no it’s a boring drive. I bought my Stihl 08s in a town called acton Ontario and from the major highway to town you drop a good bit in elevation was very different for me but it’s mostly softwoods up there down here it’s carolinian forest mix. not much for wood lots last time I checked it was 15% and probably 50% of it is conservation land.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 20, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> Something like this but I need 16 to 17 foot logs mainly pine and spruce.



well... I've seen dumber things...

perhaps a shorter "arch" section, to that its only suspending one end and dragging the other, full suspension of a 16' log with any sort of girth is verrrrry heavy.

As for design, keep the lift point infront of the arch tires, so that it pushes down on the "tractor" rather then lifting the whole mess up, the more forward the more weight on the drive tires but also... more weight on something not meant to carry that much weight. 

As for making it ride on, steering it is going to be the hardest thing, but also they can and will tip over in a corner (the arch that is) so be careful. 

In reality an electric winch is like $400. Less through Hazard Freight or kanukistan Tyre, a 9 ton or better will do ya, it will be slow, but it will work with just about any vehicle, get that and a snatch block or 2 for redirection and or force multiplying and you can move the world... eventually.


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## camel2019 (Apr 20, 2022)

northmanlogging said:


> well... I've seen dumber things...
> 
> perhaps a shorter "arch" section, to that its only suspending one end and dragging the other, full suspension of a 16' log with any sort of girth is verrrrry heavy.
> 
> ...


My thought was the arch on one side and low dolly on the other. I will need to look at some lots and talk to the owners before building anything but I have the steel here to build an arch would need some axle stubs or something along those lines(caravan rear axle or a decent size trailer axle). Most of my stuff is built from junk I have lots of tubing don’t have lots of money to spend especially when I’m trying to save for some acreage.


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## SweetMK (Apr 20, 2022)

Why not hook two of the two-wheel tractors together, and have a four wheel tractor??






Make sure the front one has the steering brakes\
(the one with flames has steering brakes,,)

If you run duals, maybe only one tractor is needed,, this one is only 8HP,,





Put a heavy blade on the front, that will help with traction,,





I usually buy these things by the trailer load,,


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## camel2019 (Apr 20, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> Why not hook two of the two-wheel tractors together, and have a four wheel tractor??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They can still be had for a song and a dance lots of them around here guess it was easier and cheaper then horses or mules.


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## camel2019 (Apr 20, 2022)

For those wondering an 18,000 pound(9ton) winch is around $1000 or more here in Canada. If I had small engine a 3 or 4 speed manual transmission and a way to shorten a rear end I could make a winch that could lock into the 5th wheel rails on my truck.


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## torch (Apr 21, 2022)

I had a Gravely, with the optional dual wheels with Ag style tires and the optional low range gearing. I had a home-built yard trailer/sulky. It worked great with the rotary mower or sickle bar attachments. Not so much with the rotary plow or snowblower attachments. There were no brakes (maybe later models have them?) No question it was a torquey little thing, and might well work on fairly level ground, but I don't think it has sufficient weight to pull a log up any significant incline. I think the wheels will just start spinning.

That trailer (sans seat) transitioned to the Deere GT262 garden tractor that replaced the Gravely. I added a little 1200lb winch to the little 262 for self-rescue after getting stuck a couple of times blowing snow on hills. I later used that winch to lift one end and drag 9x7 timbers to build a retaining wall with the tractor, and my son still uses it to drag similar sized logs out of his bush and up a hill behind his house for processing into firewood.

I don't think the Deere has any more torque than the Gravely did. The difference is in weight, and how it is distributed. The garden tractor has more weight to start, then the operator's weight is applied. A significant portion of that weight is bearing on the front axle. Lifting one end of the log applies a lot of it's weight to the drive wheels, aiding traction, but there is still sufficient weight on the front axle to counter-balance. Plus the Deere has brakes. And one end of the log is still on the ground.

The Gravely has much of the tractor's weight behind the single axle, so as to be fairly balanced when an attachment is installed on the front. Adding more downward force to the rear just lifts the front up as the hitch hits the ground. I learned to load that little yard trailer/sulky carefully -- too much weight at the front of the trailer lifted the Gravely's nose. Too much weight at the rear of the trailer levered weight (and traction) off the Gravely's drive wheels. I also learned to park it carefully -- the Gravely had no brakes. This could become an issue if you got the log partway up a hill and lost traction. 

So, if your entire route is flat, I'd give it a whirl. At worst, the Gravely lacks sufficient traction to pull the log. But I would avoid inclines at all costs unless you can drop the log to the ground in an instant. But that's just my 2¢, and worth every penny you paid.


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## camel2019 (Apr 21, 2022)

Could always use a car hood and a choker to drag it along


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## northmanlogging (Apr 21, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> My thought was the arch on one side and low dolly on the other. I will need to look at some lots and talk to the owners before building anything but I have the steel here to build an arch would need some axle stubs or something along those lines(caravan rear axle or a decent size trailer axle). Most of my stuff is built from junk I have lots of tubing don’t have lots of money to spend especially when I’m trying to save for some acreage.


be better to keep the load centered as best as possible, having the logs suspended on one side will make things awkward, samsies for the dolly. be just as easy to have the dolly removable


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## Bill G (Apr 22, 2022)

I understand you are probably trying to do it on a budget with existing items but if you want to look at another option do a search for Jonsered Ironhorse. They are very expensive but so are BCS and other higher end units. There is no doubt the Gravely units can be picked up much cheaper that they used to be. I guess they folks that liked them are passing on.https://fastest3.com/product/jonser...rse-9hp-jh-129-logging-log-hauler-iron-horse/


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## camel2019 (Apr 22, 2022)

Bill G said:


> I understand you are probably trying to do it on a budget with existing items but if you want to look at another option do a search for Jonsered Ironhorse. They are very expensive but so are BCS and other higher end units. There is no doubt the Gravely units can be picked up much cheaper that they used to be. I guess they folks that liked them are passing on.https://fastest3.com/product/jonser...rse-9hp-jh-129-logging-log-hauler-iron-horse/


I could probably build something like that 2 sets of snow mobile tracks and a couple of hydraulic motors would take care of the drives think I have a few pumps around still. Years ago I missed out on a small tracked tractor(can’t remember who built it) that would have been perfect for this. My thing is I want to selectively log and not harm any new growth unless their invasive.


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## Bill G (Apr 22, 2022)

Back in the late 1970's there used to be ads in all the magazines for mini-dozer kits. here is a link to onehttps://www.bing.com/videos/search?...9ADC35F9BFE4E1969CBC9ADC35F9BFE4E&FORM=VDQVAP

That could also be a good base to start with


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## camel2019 (Apr 22, 2022)

Bill G said:


> Back in the late 1970's there used to be ads in all the magazines for mini-dozer kits. here is a link to onehttps://www.bing.com/videos/search?...9ADC35F9BFE4E1969CBC9ADC35F9BFE4E&FORM=VDQVAP
> 
> That could also be a good base to start with


I never really need a base to start with. was going to build a small skid steer what I picked up the 20hp Briggs opposed twin for but need a bit more power for the pump I want to run.
was going to use Chevy independent suspension CV axles and hubs as the jack shafts and hubs with 2 decent size motors one for each side.
that engine is going to end up as a sawmill picked it up for nothing so no sweat of hide.


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## camel2019 (Apr 22, 2022)

I could build a chainsaw winch I have a poulan built jonsered that was my loaner saw till my neghibor melted the plastic around the clutch I freed the clutch up but the brake is done I Have a junk clutch drum that I would car if I welded a pulley on.


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## rwoods (Apr 22, 2022)

heimannm said:


> I will admit that the only one that is mine is the little one.
> 
> View attachment 978397
> 
> ...



From the MAC thread.

Ron


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## camel2019 (Apr 22, 2022)

rwoods said:


> From the MAC thread.
> 
> Ron


That looks like maybe a walk behind trencher converted over. Depending on how well my business does in the next little bit I am looking at a ride on trencher but want to keep it a trencher.


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## lwmibc (Apr 22, 2022)

Makes me smile to see the discussion of the walk-behind Gravely associated with this post; a truly wonderful machine. I've owned several, and still have and use the first one I bought, circa 1965 'Custom Convertible' model. It actually got a thorough cleaning and repaint about a year ago after having it for close to 40 years; I bought it used in the 1980's.

Using duals and chains on the outside (ag) tires it will plow snow uphill on a 20% gravel driveway using the factory 4' blade that is pictured on an earlier post. A particular value in snow plowing is the rapid change of direction provided by the planetary clutches; it can be REALLY fast. The weight of all that cast iron seems to make it unstoppable.

An earlier poster mentioned that it is not so good on the circular plow; I would have agreed with that before I figured out how it was intended to be set up. Strangely it was seeing it set up wrong on the cover of Harrowsmith years ago that made my mind click of how it was intended to be used, coupled with having been a farm boy conversant with how to set up a mold-board plow. Once set--the rotary plow is a brilliant piece of engineering; it produces the same furrow as the moldboard but results in seed-ready soil.

If anyone has one and wants to know how to set up the rotary plow, let me know and I'll describe it with photos.


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## camel2019 (Apr 22, 2022)

The gravely never interested me much love the ones with rounded hood from the 30’s 40’s and 50’s love anything with that style kinda like the cars with the fins from the late 50’s early 60’s the we’re going to space style.


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## rwoods (Apr 23, 2022)

The mini-dozer pictured is a Struck. 

As to the Gravely, they are weighed to the rear to balance frontend attachments. As stated by another, they are not designed for a rear load. The sulky and the older carts have a special hitch with two points of contacts to keep the rear from diving. They are well engineered and built machines. Though not particularly safe or practical, they made a chainsaw attachment and a circular saw attachment. The rotary plow is truly a fine attachment and can also be used for digging holes for shrubs and small trees. The only issue I encountered as a kid with one is wrestling one on a slope as it can kick your butt. The tiller attachment is really just for seed bed preparation, not plowing as the tines are too short. My father modified ours by extending the tine shaft to cover the width of our four wheel ride-on version. I have lots of fond memories running both the walk behind and ride-on. Without exaggeration, I have spent hundreds of hours with each.


Ron


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## gggGary (Apr 23, 2022)

Swap both your current tools for a larger garden tractor, if you are looking for acrage it will be needed as soon as you buy anyways.


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## camel2019 (Apr 23, 2022)

gggGary said:


> Swap both your current tools for a larger garden tractor, if you are looking for acrage it will be needed as soon as you buy anyways.


Combined my garden tractor and the walk behind are worth about $350. 
Everything I have I use for my business no matter the age I still work them only new equipment in the stable is my Stihl kombi tool. 
I do a mix of everything from cutting grass and pruning/ removing trees to grading yards and putting in gravel driveways generally when I need something bigger I quote the job to include the rental of equipment.
A bigger tractor will be needed for what I want to do on the acreage looking at starting a Christmas tree farm you can bet it’s going to be something vintage though pulling a homemade tree planter  .


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## gggGary (Apr 23, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> something vintage though pulling a homemade tree planter


I mow pasture with an H, my newest saw is going on 20 years old. (it's gotta have a chain brake is my saw age limit)
But like others have said being between a big awkward log and the pulling machine on foot may have unintended consequences.
I like hard work but I don't_ try_ to make work hard (or dangerous) if I can avoid it.
I have only dragged one log in the last 5 years, (skidsteer) cus I cut n buck where they fall then throw the chunks in the skidsteer bucket or a trailer.


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## camel2019 (Apr 23, 2022)

gggGary said:


> I mow pasture with an H, my newest saw is going on 20 years old. (it's gotta have a chain brake is my saw age limit)
> But like others have said being between a big awkward log and the pulling machine on foot may have unintended consequences.
> I like hard work but I don't_ try_ to make work hard (or dangerous) if I can avoid it.
> I have only dragged one log in the last 5 years, (skidsteer) cus I cut n buck where they fall then throw the chunks in the skidsteer bucket or a trailer.


Not cutting firewood can’t even burn spruce or pine in Ontario. looking for logs to mill think I got it figured out.


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## Sandhill Crane (Apr 24, 2022)

You will most likely need a quad, sub compact tractor, for a log arch and a four wheel drive one at that in the woods if you are moving something big enough to mill.
Keep us updated...


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## camel2019 (Apr 24, 2022)

Sandhill Crane said:


> You will most likely need a quad, sub compact tractor, for a log arch and a four wheel drive one at that in the woods if yur moving something big enough to mill.
> Keep us updated...


Think a homemade chainsaw winch is in order since the loaner saw is useless as a chainsaw think I will use that for the power head. Need to find a truck winch that’s been burnt out pull the windings out and weld a big pulley to the stator and a small one to a junk spur sprocket I have for that saw. It will be reduced before it hits the reduction gears in The winch this way. I got more then enough angle iron and tubing kicking around to make a frame that won’t rely on the strength of the plastic fantastic saw.


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## camel2019 (Apr 24, 2022)

All of this won’t be happening right away got a lot on the pile with costumers dropping their plastic fantastic  off and will probably end up living in a single wide on the property till we get enough logs to build a house. I’m probably one of the few jack of all trades masters of none around here that’s under 30 was an auto body technician from a young age thought myself to stick weld(learned how to Metal Instant Glue at 10). All the SPF lumber I mill will be getting the stamp and I will frame my house with it mostly myself maybe with the help of a buddy who has probably never used full dimension lumber before.


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## Puffie40 (Apr 25, 2022)

Take a look at the Lennatsfors Iron Horse. They are walk behind ( or walk-in-front) rubber tracked tractors with small scale logging as one of their applications.


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## camel2019 (Apr 25, 2022)

Puffie40 said:


> Take a look at the Lennatsfors Iron Horse. They are walk behind ( or walk-in-front) rubber tracked tractors with small scale logging as one of their applications.


Yeah seen them already been talked about would never find one local. The whole idea with a walk behind is I can pick them up dirt cheap($200 or less running). Anything other then what I have or what I can build is out of the question.


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## Puffie40 (Apr 25, 2022)

camel2019 said:


> Yeah seen them already been talked about would never find one local. The whole idea with a walk behind is I can pick them up dirt cheap($200 or less running). Anything other then what I have or what I can build is out of the question.


I'm not saying you buy one, I'm suggesting you study it for ideas. It wouldn't take much to adapt a log trailer, and if you can equip a hydraulic pump to the walk-behind, a winch or forwarder grapple wouldn't be too far away.

Heck, fit an alternator on there and you can use a electric truck winch!


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## camel2019 (Apr 25, 2022)

Puffie40 said:


> I'm not saying you buy one, I'm suggesting you study it for ideas. It wouldn't take much to adapt a log trailer, and if you can equip a hydraulic pump to the walk-behind, a winch or forwarder grapple wouldn't be too far away.
> 
> Heck, fit an alternator on there and you can use a electric truck winch!


Cheapest 18,000lb winch available is $1000 and that’s at princess auto(Canuck harbour fright). Think the junksared is capable of running a winch there was just a nice heavy duty electric winch that was burnt out for $25 guess I missed it.


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## madhatte (Apr 26, 2022)

Consider a design like this:






you want the log held firmly and off the ground on one end, and dragging on the other. You DON'T want a log fully suspended -- the end on the ground is part of your brakes.


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## camel2019 (Apr 29, 2022)

madhatte said:


> Consider a design like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don’t own anything currently with a 3 point nor do I have the space to store it wouldn’t be an issue if I didn’t own 3 trucks and 2 cars lol.


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## madhatte (Apr 30, 2022)

The 3-pt isn't as important as how the log is attached -- a bit of flat, a bit of suspension, a bit of leverage. You can make it work with whatever.


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## camel2019 (Jun 25, 2022)

So still looking for land. But what do you guys think of this thing for skidding logs it’s a old wrecker boom that would have bolted into the back of a Willy’s jeep I kinda have another purpose for this thing as well pulling engines out of parts vehicles. Was looking at bolting it to a frame with a trailer axle under it to use as a mobile cherry picker but with the winch under it it could be used to skid logs as well I think.


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