# Question for skidsteer/diesel eng. gurus



## LabLuvR (Nov 19, 2006)

I'm considering buying a Cat skidsteer with around 80hp to run a brush mulching head on as part of a new landclearing business. Yesterday while talking to a Cat sales rep he cautioned me about using the Cat skidsteer mainly as a mulching tool. He claimed that the RPM's needed to run the head would wear the machine out prematurely if the machine was used day in and day out specifically with the mulching head. It was the first I've heard of this and know many guys who run the skidsteers with mulching heads. Now how many hours their machines run soley with the head I don't know. The rep mentioned some possible problems around 1,000 hours may develop?????

The odd thing is Cat sells a head for the skidsteer. Why would they do that or not have some cautions in their literature if it was/is a problem? Was the salesguy trying to sell me up to a dedicated machine or was their some substantial truth to what he was saying? Thanks for your input!!!!!!


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## jomoco (Nov 19, 2006)

Sounds like a second or third opinion is in order to say the least!

jomoco


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## sawinredneck (Nov 19, 2006)

I call B S on that one!!!!!!!!!!!!! I worked for a heavy equipment dealer that sold Bobcats as a mechanic, and we always had to lecture the owners about running a partial throttle. The Kubota and Perkins Deisels will wear sooner at part throttle than at full throttle. Lugging the motor puts undue stress on the pistions increasing side skirt wear, leading to ring wear, leading to blowby........ etc. 80hp is a LOT of motor in a skidsteer, I can't see that thing having a problem running ANYTHING you want to hook up to it!!! Call another dealer.
Andy


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## BruceL (Nov 19, 2006)

*Cat 287B*

We have sold and rented the 287 and Bobcat T300. The T300 walks all over the Cat when using a high flow mower head. It really shows up in hilly terrain. We also see double the track life on the Bobcats (1300 vs 600 hours) and at a lower cost when it is replaced.

Try a Bobcat out before buying the Cat.


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## BostonBull (Nov 19, 2006)

BruceL said:


> We have sold and rented the 287 and Bobcat T300. The T300 walks all over the Cat when using a high flow mower head. It really shows up in hilly terrain. We also see double the track life on the Bobcats (1300 vs 600 hours) and at a lower cost when it is replaced.
> 
> Try a Bobcat out before buying the Cat.




We have the T300 and it is great with the mower we use on it. I would give the thms up to it.


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## JohnH (Nov 19, 2006)

I say look into the Rayco CL85. We have tried ASV,bobcat, gehl the Rayco has held up the best so far. The bobcat and ASV run a close second.


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## LabLuvR (Nov 19, 2006)

Yea, I intend to look at the Bobcat and other brands. The sales rep said regardless of brand, the mulch head at required rpm's(2100-2300 I believe) would put a lot of stress and wear on the engine and hydraulics. His statement seemed odd to me, but wanted to check with others whose knowledge level is much deeper than mine.


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## Curbside (Nov 19, 2006)

I run a Fecon Cutter head on a T-300 Kseires highflow. Their is no doubt that the machine is working hard when your cutting especially in larger diameter material but that is what the machine is meant to do. You will probably wear the machine out sooner then if you used it as a glorified wheel barrel but then that's why you charge the appropriate rates to account for that. Personally I think running concrete hammer is harder on the machine overall than a mower head. Eventually you will blow hoses and eventually you will wear out a pump but by that time you should be ready to upgrade to the next machine.

Personally I buy my T-300s with the longest warranty possible and then trade them off before the warranty expires.

The T-300 is a very nice compact mower and is quite amazing how well it functions. Of course usually once you start mowing you always want bigger and badder machines.


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## JohnH (Nov 20, 2006)

Curbside said:


> I run a Fecon Cutter head on a T-300 Kseires highflow. Their is no doubt that the machine is working hard when your cutting especially in larger diameter material but that is what the machine is meant to do. You will probably wear the machine out sooner then if you used it as a glorified wheel barrel but then that's why you charge the appropriate rates to account for that. Personally I think running concrete hammer is harder on the machine overall than a mower head. Eventually you will blow hoses and eventually you will wear out a pump but by that time you should be ready to upgrade to the next machine.
> 
> Personally I buy my T-300s with the longest warranty possible and then trade them off before the warranty expires.
> 
> The T-300 is a very nice compact mower and is quite amazing how well it functions. Of course usually once you start mowing you always want bigger and badder machines.



Bigger and bader is right.were looking at 621 and 721 Hydro-axs now.


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## LabLuvR (Nov 20, 2006)

What made you guys decide on Bobcat vs. a Cat or ASV? And what do you think about getting a machine with tires and the add on tracks? I live in SC and would be doing more timber work than brush probably. Thanks for all the good advice!!


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## Curbside (Nov 20, 2006)

I bought Bobcat because they are a good machine, been around for years, control nearly 50 percent of the market and the dealer in my area is excellent to me. If you want to go with a tire machine I would suggest caution on that. The forestry mowers are very heavy and you will be heavy on your front tires. If you do go with tires make sure you foam fill the tires.

The T-300 has a decent high flow rate at 38 gallons per minute at 3300 psi. It turns the mower at a decent speed and decent horsepower.

Like I said earlier once you start doing it you will want bigger.

You say you will be doing more timber than bush. What size of timber and what kind? The skidsteer mowers are really only effective up to the 5-6 mark. I have done trees 12-15" but they take time and mostly poplar if you want to do bigger wood you will have to look for way bigger machines.

Right now I am looking at several Fecon 140, Kodiak 160 or Gyrotrack 180. Probably will not purchase till next year but like I said once you have one you keep wanting bigger.


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## LabLuvR (Nov 20, 2006)

My goal is to stay in the 6-8" range with the trees. Someone mentioned that Bobcat warned against foam in tires with the track/wheel combos. Something about axle bending.


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## ASEMASTER (Nov 20, 2006)

*foamin tires!*



LabLuvR said:


> I'm considering buying a Cat skidsteer with around 80hp to run a brush mulching head on as part of a new landclearing business. Yesterday while talking to a Cat sales rep he cautioned me about using the Cat skidsteer mainly as a mulching tool. He claimed that the RPM's needed to run the head would wear the machine out prematurely if the machine was used day in and day out specifically with the mulching head. It was the first I've heard of this and know many guys who run the skidsteers with mulching heads. Now how many hours their machines run soley with the head I don't know. The rep mentioned some possible problems around 1,000 hours may develop?????
> 
> The odd thing is Cat sells a head for the skidsteer. Why would they do that or not have some cautions in their literature if it was/is a problem? Was the salesguy trying to sell me up to a dedicated machine or was their some substantial truth to what he was saying? Thanks for your input!!!!!!



the diesel engine is only driving the (high)out put hyd. pump . It should be run at max working rpm and it should out last the machine with proper maint.
As for the foam tires they work as we use them on our sidewalk plows .(BUT)there is undue stress on the drivetrain , you also must replace the rims and tires at the same time. you would be much better with the tracks.


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## LabLuvR (Nov 20, 2006)

What about putting Nu-Tires on the machine avoiding the foam issue?


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## Curbside (Nov 20, 2006)

What are NU Tires?


The problem with not foam filling is when you get a flat, and you will, it takes so long to change into another tire and then you get another flat and then you have no spares and on and on.

If you change up the machine before the warranty is up I wouldn't worry about the axles. I know the dealer here offers the foam filled tires with a new machine.


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## LabLuvR (Nov 30, 2006)

Curb,

Sorry for the delay. Here is the Nu Tire I spoke of:

http://www.mclarenindustries.com/products.php?pID=1


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## Totally Stumped (Nov 30, 2006)

You WILL wear the machine out faster in the land clearing application than in many others. Prematurely? Who's to say. You won't be running at full rpm all the time-it spools up, you get into the brush, it spools down and you have to wait for the engine rpms to come back up. Or it just dies altogether and you have to restart. 

I agree with others, a diesel is made to run at a certain rpm and, with proper maintenance, should last a very long time. Clearing brush is far from running at a constant rpm. Throw in a diet of dust and off road pounding and, yes, you will shorten the life of the entire machine compared to other applications.

Cooling is a major concern and the best bit of advice I can give anyone in the mulcher business is to buy a cheap gas powered leaf blower and make it a habit to blow that machine out everytime you stop. 

Land clearing is a tall order for ANY skid steer. You might be better off with a larger used or rebuilt machine like a Hydro-Axe or Ford. Also, watch your weight with foam tires and over the tire tracks.

Good luck!


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## LabLuvR (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks for the post. I'm thinking of allowing 3000 hrs for the life of the machine, is that reasonable? Thanks!


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## Totally Stumped (Nov 30, 2006)

That's a lot of hours on a light duty piece of equipment. Will every component go 3000 hours? No way, not even close. That's a lot of tires, hoses, couplers, seals, filters, etc. 
Again, heat and debris build up in the engine compartment will be a constant concern. Lots of burned up skid steers and mulcher heads around here.
Rayco and ASV have tried to adress this problem with a larger machine with a longer layout with the engine compartment hanging out the back. A conventional skid steer has the operator sitting on the hydraulic pumps and motors with the engine shoved in behind. Great for tight areas, bad for cooling. Can a skid steer clear brush? You bet! Are there better designs out there? I'd take a Rayco or ASV, in that order, over a tracked Cat, Bobcat, JD, New Holland or Case for everyday mulching and a warmed-over Hydro-Axe, Franklin, Barko or Ford over any of the skid steers. 

What are you going to pull this beast with? A Cat 268B is 9000, plus foam filled tires 1000, gooseneck trailer 3500, mulcher 2500, over the tire tracks 1000, chains, tools, fuel, etc. 500 for a total of 17,500lbs. Whatcha drivin? 

This whole mulcher business is not for the faint of heart or skinny wallet. Its easy to blow $100,000 just getting set up. Around here, guys can bill $1000/day on a good day. But an old D-6 or JD 650 with a skilled operator can still kick any mulchers a$$ at half the price. Food for thought...


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## Curbside (Dec 1, 2006)

LabLuvR said:


> Curb,
> 
> Sorry for the delay. Here is the Nu Tire I spoke of:
> 
> http://www.mclarenindustries.com/products.php?pID=1


I've never seen those tires before. Quite something. The video pretty well says it all.


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## Curbside (Dec 1, 2006)

I would agree with Totally Stumped. If you are planning on mowing basically every day I would not waste time with skidsteer/mower. Instead get a dedicated mower unit like a Fecon 140 or Gyrotrack 18 or Kodiak Kutter. They start around 160 000 and go up some a lot faster than others.


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## LabLuvR (Dec 1, 2006)

Keep it up guys! I really appreciate the info! Fyi, I'm exploring going into the business and want to know the good and the bad with these machines. I live not far from the Gyro place in SC and will definately look at those machines as well. Where I will come up with the 100k difference I don't know just yet.

The reason I like the skidsteer type unit is the versatility vs. a dedicated machine. No doubt the dedicated would hold up better. But at this time I'm still trying to determine what the market is for each type of machine.

A dozer is dang good machine, but has it's advantages and disadvantages as well. I've got the truck to pull the unit. Thanks for the tips guys and feel free to share more opinions.


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## Totally Stumped (Dec 1, 2006)

Having a good dealership nearby is essential and a good service or parts guy is worth his weight in gold. My service manager has walked me through countless problems on the phone and saved me thousands. On top of that, you need to locate a few good welding and hydraulic shops in your service area. I recently cracked a chrome rod on the hydraulic cylinder of my tree shear and had a hard time finding a shop to weld it up. 

Before you buy a machine, check out the parts department and compare prices on hydraulic couplers, hoses and other common replacement items. Proprietary parts suck. Make sure the machine you purchase can live on a diet of cheap hydraulic oil like WalMart 10W-30. When a limb falls and breaks a coupler you will see firsthand what 41 gpm at 3300 psi looks like! 

Next, check out the rental department and see if they carry the exact same machine and attachments you want to purchase or something very similar. In the highly likely event you need to take your machine in for service, its nice to know they have a rental in stock that will allow you to finish the job you were on.

My advice would be to specialize in one or two things and not be a jack of all trades. Here's my reasoning: multiple jobs take multiple attachments which require lots of different spare parts, a bigger trailer, bigger truck to pull it all, etc. Not many parts interchange between a hydraulic hammer and a Fecon mulcher. Believe me, you will buy plenty of attachments even if land clearing is the only thing you do.

I know mulchers are all the rage right now and they do have a place but don't overlook a 20" tree shear for skid steer land clearing. $8500 will get you into a brand new 20" Tree Terminator which is a very stout but mechanically simple attachment. Another $8000 will get you into a Davco rotary brush mower and allow you to tackle up to 4" stuff-anything bigger, use the shear. I don't think you can touch a new mulcher head for $16,500 and this would give you two of the toughest attachments on the market. Then, buy a set of replacement hoses and couplers for both units, grease up the zerks and get busy. 

Compare replacement mulcher tooth cost with shear and mower blade cost and you will go for the shear/mower combo in a heartbeat. Also, compare tooth replacement cost between the mulcher heads you are looking at-its a significant operating expense. 

Check out what your competition is running. Being the first guy on the block with a new car or boat is OK but not for a machine that you use to earn a living and especially not for a machine you are going to beat the $hit out of back in the woods. If all the old guys run Cats, its probably for a reason. 

Good luck!


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## LabLuvR (Dec 1, 2006)

Stump,

I agree with everything you mentioned. I need to be very smart and figure out all of this before I plunk down 90k. A buddy of mine told me he knew of a guy who bought a mulcher head to go with his "low flow" skid steer. Reckon that guy did his homework first? What about the salesperson who sold it.

Anyway back to topic. My Cat dealer mentioned today the Davco cutter as a great tool. The way he talked, the Davco could do almost what a mulcher head can at half the cost. I came back and checked them out on the web. That thing is a BEAST!! Since a mulcher is rated tohandle trees around 6" and the Davco 4", there isn't a lot of difference in capabilities is there?


The tree shear is an awesome idea in tandem with the Davco. I stumbled upon Fecon's on the net and was wondering what application it may have in my business and what advantage it may give me over the competition who has a mulcher head only.Thanks for bringing it up, I need to review that idea some more. Since you are more familiar than I am, any more ideas on how I could use those two tools to my advantage over just the mulcher would be most appreciated.

Btw, I demoed the Cat today and like it a lot. I'm still not sold on the ASV as they don't seem to be near as maintenance friendly as the Cat, plus their is only one dealer in my area who just started carrying them about six months ago. I've not heard great things about their service. With all that in mind,I'm still evaluating the Cat vs. Bobcat and slightly leaning toward the Cat with the tire/track combo.

Any more thoughts anyone would like to share would once again be highly appreciated. Thanks for all the great information, it has been invaluable!


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## Leebo (Dec 2, 2006)

Great post, Stumped.


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## Totally Stumped (Dec 2, 2006)

www.bardaequipment.com for the Davco

www.usmower.com for a similar rotary mower but made in USA

www.treeterminator.com for the shear

www.skidsteersolutions.com for everything else

Wouldn't be afraid to buy any of these used as they are all simple designs with few moving parts.


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## Totally Stumped (Dec 2, 2006)

Lab,

Skid steers just don't produce the hydraulic horsepower necessary to achieve the single pass clear-the Holy Grail of land clearing. Instead, you have to sit there and gnaw on the big stuff and make repeated passes with the mulcher to reduce the stuff. Personally, I think mulchers make an unholy mess and are good for a hunting lease, a rough clear or to reduce slash. They will not produce a park-like effect on heavy brush in an efficient manner. If your customer is willing to pay for you to stay out there for days and burn hundreds of gallons of fuel, then a mulcher might work. There's too many cheap dozers around here for that. BTW, the mulchers make shorter sticks and shreds-it does not look like a bag of Home Depot mulch when you get finished. 

Here's how a lot of guys clear land: Run over all the small stuff with the rotary mower. Switch to the shear. A shear will give you the closest ability to a dozer but will cut the stuff off at ground level instead of ripping it out of the ground and making holes. At that point, you need to burn, stack, haul off or grind the brush so you will need a grapple or rake. I leave burning to my customers but wil arrange haul off or grinding. 

That's three attachments and all three will probably run about what one mulcher head would cost. But, you gain a lot of speed and flexibility with the three attachments. A big multi stem yaupon or cedar is one bite for a 20" shear but it might take ten minutes with a mulcher. Now multiply that ten minutes by the one hundred big a$$ yaupons on each acre-see how it adds up in time and money on heavy brush. I've been on places I literally had to carve tunnels through the brush!

This is a tough business to go it alone, for many reasons, and I suggest you find a partner running a similar set up. Two skid steers can get a lot done with one guy shearing and the other mowing, raking or grappling.


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## LabLuvR (Dec 3, 2006)

Stump,

The only thing that really bugs me about the shear is the tree is still there. Our outdoor burning laws are starting to impact residential, and especially
commercial burning, one of the major reasons mulching is an up and coming business here. We also have several lakes in the area that are experiencing pretty good growth, along with the area in general. As I look around, I'm thinking my niche may be the commercial and residential areas. Just need to get out and actually talk to the potential customers to see what their needs are. Otherwise, I'm just pure T guessing.


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## Yellowdog (Dec 3, 2006)

Curbside said:


> I
> The T-300 has a decent high flow rate at 38 gallons per minute at 3300 psi. It turns the mower at a decent speed and decent horsepower.



I think the Bobcat is actually 37 gpm at 3300 psi. 
Have been using Bobcat's to run brush mowers for about 4 years. I just moved up to an s300 K back in February and just bought a CAT HM312 (FAE) which seems to be a great match for my Bobcat. Had been running a Tushhog. I see less wear and tear on the machine using a brush mower than I do with a tree shear or heavy dirt moving. The only exception I have found is radiator cleanings and total machine cleanout is more important and must occur at regular intervals to keep the "fluff" out of the compartments. A good shop vac and some patience works fine for that.

As long as you don't use the brush mower as a bulldozer, you will be okay. You can mulch just about any size soft wood and many larger hard woods if you are patient and use finesse. As far as a tracked versus wheeled machine. That would depend on the application. I use solid filled hulk tires in very rough, rocky conditions. I used to run over the tire loegering tracks but gave them up because of the extra weight and frequency of getting logs and rocks stuck in the tracks. If you are in soft conditions, tracks are a must, because a brush mower will require forward and backward motions over the same areas. 
Hope this helps..


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## Yellowdog (Dec 3, 2006)

Totally Stumped said:


> Lab,
> 
> A big multi stem yaupon or cedar is one bite for a 20" shear but it might take ten minutes with a mulcher. Now multiply that ten minutes by the one hundred big a$$ yaupons on each acre-see how it adds up in time and money on heavy brush. I've been on places I literally had to carve tunnels through the brush!
> .



Good points!


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## Curbside (Dec 4, 2006)

Thanks for the correction Yellow Dog. Yes it is 37 GPM at 3700 PSI. Not sure if I hit the wrong key or was having a brain lapse. I was open to the Bobcat web page for the specs and I still typed it wrong.


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## Curbside (Dec 4, 2006)

Still doin it. 37gpm at 3300 PSI. There I got it right this time.


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## LabLuvR (Dec 4, 2006)

I've pondered the tree shear, problem is disposal of the tree. Outdoor burning is becoming more restricted as time goes by here. That is one of the main reasons the mulchers appeal to me. We also are experiencing pretty good growth in the area and along a big lake in the vicinity increasing market potential

After I demoed the ASV, Cat and Bobcat, I would say at this time it's a toss up between Bobcat and Cat. Cat would have a slight advantage as their experience with mulching in my area is a little bit stronger than BobCats. The forestry package on the Cat seems to be the mackdaddy.


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## neighborstree (Dec 9, 2006)

the biggest and baddest, never get stuck in the mud machine is the asv rc100. not to mention the most compact fot your doller. you can haul it with a dually pickup. the come stock with a 80 to 115 hp diesel. besides the rayco i would go with the asv any day of the week, my problems i have has with bobcat is lack of power. here i am climbing a small hill in the woods after knocking down a 100 foot beach tree. the bobcat has a log in the grapple bucket i would guess weighs 2500 lbs..i gotta stop every 3 feet or so to let the motor come back up to high rpm's to even move, to say the least it took me days to finish the job witch was bided at one day lol...ill never rent or own a bobcat ever again...there tire machines are great. track machines should have atleast 100 hp.. i mean they have tracks , does the manufacture expect us to used them as glorified whell barrels lol i like that


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## Curbside (Dec 10, 2006)

What size of Bobcat is that? I know for a T300 2500 lb is a walk in the park.


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## neighborstree (Dec 10, 2006)

it was a rental t300


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## Big Jim (Dec 10, 2006)

I would almost be willing to bet that the T300 you rented needed a fuel filter service.We rent them to mow hillsides and containment dikes when the grade is to steep for our own machine(773G Turbo Hi Flow)with the grousers.
I have also used a T300 to move large wood and didn't have any problems .
The grades that the T300 will go up and down are directly proportioned to the operators ability and balls .Common sense is always a plus.
A T300 is in the 100 HP range Isn't it?

Know Guts Know Glory


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## neighborstree (Dec 11, 2006)

by the way you guys talk this machine up and down up temted to go buy one tomarrow lol..i guess i rented a piece of ???? then lol..i bealeve that it comes with a 81 horse kubota


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## Curbside (Dec 11, 2006)

It does come with a 81 hp Kabota. I know ASV says theirs is 105hp. Funny how the machine specs at basically the same as Bobcat. Lift, Hydr flow etc. I would also say that if you were having that kind of problem with lifting 2500 lbs chunks of wood that their was mechanical problems of some sort.


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## stumpjumper83 (Dec 11, 2006)

*wheel loader?*

Just a question here, have you looked into the wheel loader option? A medium sized wheel loader might be a better tool. A 136 hp case 621d has 45gpm @ 2000 eng rpm @ 3600 psi, alot better than even the largest skid steer. 
Then you have the fact that the loader handles rough terrain much better. It is also much more gentle on tires. It will also be easier on you when your operating, think operator comfort. The gross machine weight is higher but when you figgure in the weight of the head, that might be a good thing, I think that you might be aproaching tip weight when working a grade. Also wheel loaders have the float option in the loader controls which might be handy. 
Yes they cost more, but I think that you will be able to be more productive with it and get more hours out of it. But the tire issue with skidd steers will cost you probably $2,000 per 300 hours if your running foam fills. Lots of options...


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## drmiller100 (Dec 12, 2006)

hmmmm.

so i'm a landscaper that uses a 75 horse skidsteer most days. we drive it full bore into rocks accidentally, drive it into piles of dirt on purpose, bounce it around, tip it on its nose picking up too much do wheeleys, pick up logs, pallets, rocks, and generally beat teh liviing snot out of it.

and she had 3500 hours when i bought it.

as i envision this, you guys are taking some goofy mower thingy, winding the skid up to max rpm, adn letting the engine go to work?????

do you regularly drop it off 3 foot cliffs???? cold starts at 20 below? drive wide open into trees?????

i thought not.

running it wide open and using the hydraulics full time is what the goofy thing was designed for. your salesman was a total idiot. ask the idiot salesman to show you the hydraulic cooler. it is larger then the radiator.

to be fair, at 4000 hours most steers are trashed, but it is boom, drive system, bucket hinges, hoses, that go. the engines are industrial diesels that would go 20,000 hours easy if you didn't run them out of water or oil.


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## Big Jim (Dec 12, 2006)

We do things with a rental that I would flip out on the kid for doing with our machine.Our 773 with Hi Flow on most days is more than fine to get the job done.We put the tracks on it and it becomes a different machine.we run a modified brushcat mower that handles 3" to 6"trees and brush with no problem,depending on the type of tree(sumac/Russian olive6",oak maple3").
We also use a backhoe and tree shear on this machine.The tree shear can get REAL hairy if you grab something you really shouldn't.Again common sense
is the key.
The thing that I find useful is with the counter weight kit the 773 will lift around a ton and still give you access into back yards for residential work when you need a smaller machine.
I will not dispute that a wheeled machine will out work a skid steer when used for the purpose it was intended .I also will not dispute it cost more to transport , for parts , and operate a wheeled machine.
If we got the room we take our 665 Clark skidder and the bobcat onto the jobs.The Clark moves big stuff a lot easier than the skid steer does .
What it all boils down to is making the most practical choice for what your going to do with the machine.
I myself have only owned and rented bobcats for skid steers.The upkeep is affordable and I have found that parts are highly available when I need them.
On the 773 we have 3600 hrs on it and have replaced the hi flow pump 1 time($650.00) and a couple of electric switches as far as problems.
This machine has been on its side ,stuck in the mud to the cab , and has the frame at the rear of the machine pounded on rocks till it has a bow in her.
Ground clearance is not as good as the track machines but that is where the operator comes into play.
Gotta go to work now .


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## MowersinFL (Dec 13, 2006)

*Need To Read This!*

I know from experience that a wheeled machine is not what you want in a forestry setting. Also, I have heard from more than one source that CAT will not warranty their tracks if you put one of their machines in a forestry environment. Not personally sure if that is true, but I have heard it from a couple of people. I definitely agree with JohnH that the Rayco machine is one of if not the best in forestry market, though I personally would take a look at either the C87L or C130.


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## neighborstree (Dec 14, 2006)

wheeled machines are "ok" if you plan on mowing in pine bearing or dryland..hit a little mud and youll be calling someone with a track machine to come get you unstuck..the rayco is your best best if your only doing land clearing. you cant run one across someones lawn without distroying the lawn unlike a rubber track machine..think of your options


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## grabroot&growl (Dec 15, 2006)

Yellowdog,

I see you are using the t300, and a brush mower? If you are working in the hillcountry, are you dealing mostly with juniper, or are you also tackling mesquite, and other spiny legume? 

I am well east of you and was looking into the brush clearing option - for my own place as well as the small "ranchettes" in this area, but without root plowing and tearing up the soil a great deal, the options are limited.

With the hydro-Ax and mulching heads on the Bobcats, the legume mesquite will grow back rapidly, so I need to find a way to get the "ball" out of the ground with minimal soil disturbance. I was looking at the buckets that are sold for grubbing out the stump. Have you or anyone else had any experience with these? I am in the blackland area of texas, not dealing with the rock and ledges you have in the hill country.


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## Frank Boyer (Dec 21, 2006)

Figure out what market that you want to be in. A skid steer is for residential/limited access/smaller jobs with brush/small trees. A D-4/5/6 with a mulcher/root rake is for large sub-division sized jobs. How steep is the area that you want to work in? Are you doing landscaping/construction where the skid steer is needed? Tracks will allow you to work on steeper terrain and in wetter conditions than rubber tires. Being able to work an extra month or two a year can pay a lot of bills. Limited access work takes more specialized equipment , but can be very profitable.


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## extreme mowing (Jan 8, 2007)

*skid steer with mulching head*

I have a forestry mowing business. I use an ASV 4810 with a gyro-trac planer style head. I try to stay at 8" diameter and below but with fresh teeth I have taken 17" diameter pine. Tracks are the way to go.


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## neighborstree (Jan 8, 2007)

if you guys are into land clearing like you seem you are, why even own a mulcher head. why not just a grapple rake and a nice little 50 or 60 grand tub grinder...drag the rake through the mess. rake up the brush, stumps and what not and just grind it in a efficient manor..makes sence to me.. i gues lol..
i have a positrack loader with a 74 inch root grapple . not only will it easly rip out a 10 inch stump, but will push over a 60 foot 20 inch diamiter tree with ease..atleast thats my approch to land clearing. for instance, i just cleared a half acre lot. 300 trees or so. pushed every tree over, stump uprooted and all, cut the stump off,. chipped the intire tree. 2 40 yard dumpsters for the stumps. 7 days later got my check for 25'000. by the way, my loaders are forsale or trade for a knuckleboom truck i have 3 identical loaders. take ur pick. all ahve hi flow and low flo hydraulics,. high flow is raterd @ 33 gpm at 3400 psi i bealeve and im not shure about the low flow


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## QwikDraw (Feb 4, 2007)

25,000 for 1/2 an acres yeah, sure. and if you meant 2,500 then you can make that in 2 days with a mulch head.

The ASV is the way to go. 100HP and 304 pounds of tourqe, put a forestry package on it and it's bullet proof. It will keep that head turning better than any other, "non-custom" skid steer.

Why hasn't any one mentioned the Bradco Magnum mulcher, 45 off set teeth, teeth are two sided (but expensive) and quickest recovery time.


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## neighborstree (Feb 4, 2007)

i love my asv. and yea i did mean 25'000. land clearing around here is not cheap. i mean a mulcher head would not even benifit me on thease king of jobs, its mostly all semi large populars,


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## deerfarmer (Feb 13, 2007)

I chose an ASV RC-100 to run a mulching head for two primary reasons: 

(1) Horsepower to provide High Flow; you need all the power you can get to run a mulching head. The RC-100 is 99.5 hp. The ASV engine is a Perkins, the Cat engine is made by Perkins and says Cat. The primary difference in Hp is the Turbo on the ASV engine. Cat owns 25 % of ASV. ASV makes Cat undercarriage and Cat makes some components for ASV. 

(2) Width; The ASV machine is more narrow than most (or maybe all ) other compact track loaders. Since I am using it among trees I need to be a able to go between the trees that I want to leave. It is more narrow because it was designed as a track machine, the tracks are not just added outside a skid steer frame. 

The only other machine that I thought would be as good was Rayco. I would have seriously considered Rayco but there was not a dealer in the state at the time that I bought the ASV and I did not want to have to drive hundreds of miles for service.


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## MowersinFL (Feb 15, 2007)

Next time you are looking check out Tubb Equipment in Hattiesburg, MS. They should be able to help out with a Rayco demo.


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## Cat (Mar 8, 2007)

I have a bobcat and really like it so far. The bobcat i had before i got this new one was unreal the work i done with that, and with hardly any break downs.:newbie:


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## Yellowdog (Mar 24, 2007)

grabroot&growl said:


> Yellowdog,
> 
> I see you are using the t300, and a brush mower? If you are working in the hillcountry, are you dealing mostly with juniper, or are you also tackling mesquite, and other spiny legume?
> 
> .




I run an s300k . I mostly clear juniper and grind brush piles. I save the bigger trees for my shear and bc2000 chipper. The CAT mulcher does a great job on smaller trees, piles, and stumps leaving fine shreds.


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## Yellowdog (Mar 24, 2007)

neighborstree said:


> if you guys are into land clearing like you seem you are, why even own a mulcher head. why not just a grapple rake and a nice little 50 or 60 grand tub grinder...drag the rake through the mess. rake up the brush, stumps and re about the low flow



I doubt you can get much of a grinder for under 100k very used. My Bc2000 chipper is nearly 75k 5 years ago.

Down here, unless it's a house pad, we leave the stumps for erosion control. With the new phase ii regulations, the less you uproot, the better. Shearing is a Best management practice.


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## Yellowdog (Mar 24, 2007)

stumpjumper83 said:


> Yes they cost more, but I think that you will be able to be more productive with it and get more hours out of it. But the tire issue with skidd steers will cost you probably $2,000 per 300 hours if your running foam fills. Lots of options...



I think you may be off on the tire issue. We routinely get 1000+ hours out of hulk solid tires in rocky terrain. 

Wheel loaders have their place but ease of transport, maneuverability, cost of components, etc., make skidsteers a wise choice for many applications. It's no wonder they out sell every other type of machine. If you are moving large amounts of material from point a to point b, I concede that a wheel loader, given enough room to maneuver, would be a better choice for dirt moving. For digging, grading, and moving trees, though, a large skidsteer can't be beat. (at least for the size trees we have in central TX).


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