# Lowering small limbs



## rmihalek (Apr 26, 2006)

I successfully retrieved the stuck throw bags from my throw-bag practice session with this black ash in my backyard and then faced another dilemma, which was the real reason (other than to have some fun) to go up this tree in the first place: there are a few 3 inch or so diameter dead limbs that hang over my kids' swingset and I wanted to get them out of the tree. However, since I was 55 feet above the swing set, I couldn't just cut the dead limbs and drop them because they'd probably break the swing set. So then I'm thinking "well I could lower them down." So, I put a sling around a 1.5 inch diameter dead limb, cut it off, and lowered it down only to realize that I had no way of getting the limb off my lowering line! Duh!:bang: 

So, I had to haul the limb back up, detach it from the lowering line, and toss it around the other side of the tree to avoid the swing set. I'm glad I started with the smallest limb first 'cause I don't think I could've hauled the three incher back up and would've had to just drop the whole line.

Now for the question: is there a way to lower limbs down while solo climbing and somehow release the lowering line and bring the line back up for the next limb?

Thanks.


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## clearance (Apr 26, 2006)

Bob, you shouldn't be climbing by yourself anyways, the guy there to save your life can untie the branches. You should be able to cut and push those limbs into falling into a good spot. I try to rig as little as possible and never blocks or logs, I can push off some pretty big branches using one hand on my saw and the other on the branch. Takes some practice. Also if the branches are stone cold dead they probably don't wiegh much, maybe you could cut and hold, then chuck.


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## coydog (Apr 26, 2006)

ditto to not climbing alone...
yes there are ways to do as you describe but are generally seen as more advanced techniques for production climbing , the moderaters of this site have censored such information in the past to discourage it from being used by inexperienced climbers.
a good technique for handling small branches as you describe however is to take two loop runners and a carabiner, undercut the branch, attach a loop runner on each side of the undercut, clip them together with a carabiner, finish your cut . the sling/ biner combo will catch the cut, then you can put your saw away, and remove the branch from the sling and toss it clear. For use only on branches that are small enough to EASily handle. This is basically a variation of the cut and toss technique described above but safer as you can keep two hands on the saw.


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## 1CallLandscape (Apr 26, 2006)

personally i climB alone... i always have and its less to worry about with extra people below you. i have addapted several techniques for this. if you havethe room, tie a line from the general area that you are cutting from atop the tree and tie the other end around another on the ground . then take pieces of 6' long 3/8" line and tie a loop onto either end . next get up in the tree. clip one of the loops onto your guide line , next put a clip on the other loop end qand wrap the line around the branch and clip to the carrier line its self.........cut away......the limb will fall and be caught by the loop line and slide along your carrier line safely over that swing set and on the ground. the only problem is its alittle setup time but works great.


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## sawn_penn (Apr 26, 2006)

rmihalek said:


> Now for the question: is there a way to lower limbs down while solo climbing and somehow release the lowering line and bring the line back up for the next limb?



A "highwayman's hitch" allows you to lower an object, using one side of the line to support the weight and the other side as a quick release.

http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/highwayman????ch.htm

As you are lowering a loop of rope, you need a length of rope a bit over twice the distance to the ground.

An extra turn around the branch in step one can make for a better grip on the branch.

In reality, you end up jiggling both ends of the line to release the object. Only takes a second though.


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## Fireaxman (Apr 26, 2006)

Just another quick caution when you are climbing alone - if you are climbing double rope dynamic be careful to keep the tail of your rope out from under your brush pile. You would be surprised how heavy a few small branches can get if they get tied up in the tail of your dynamic system.

And, if you have to climb alone, keep that cell phone handy. It's embarassing to have to call a freind to untie the tail of your rope from your brush pile, but it can get you home for supper on time. How do I know?:bang: Duh.


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## rmihalek (Apr 27, 2006)

Thanks for the great replies. I'll have to try the Highwayman's hitch today. I realize climbing alone is more dangerous than with a partner, but I don't have the option of climbing with someone all the time so I either have to practice alone or not climb at all and I don't like that second option.

I really don't plan on doing much cutting while in these trees. I just started climbing them and they have lots of dead limbs, so once those limbs are out of the way, my plan is to go up and take pictures, limb walk, etc. but no cutting. I use only a Silky handsaw, so I'm not complicating things any further with a chainsaw.

That's a good tip Fireaxman about the limbs landing on my line because that's exactly what happened with some other little limbs that I trimmed; they fell straight down onto my line and when I got down out of the tree there were all these twigs everywherethat I had to step through.


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## rmihalek (Apr 27, 2006)

Thanks for the great replies. I'll have to try the Highwayman's hitch today. I realize climbing alone is more dangerous than with a partner, but I don't have the option of climbing with someone all the time so I either have to practice alone or not climb at all and I don't like that second option.

I really don't plan on doing much cutting while in these trees. I just started climbing them and they have lots of dead limbs, so once those limbs are out of the way, my plan is to go up and take pictures, limb walk, etc. but no cutting. I use only a Silky handsaw, so I'm not complicating things any further with a chainsaw.

That's a good tip Fireaxman about the limbs landing on my line because that's exactly what happened with some other little limbs that I trimmed; they fell straight down onto my line and when I got down out of the tree there were all these twigs everywherethat I had to step through.


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## rmihalek (Apr 27, 2006)

I don't know why that previous post went in twice...

Anyway, 1CallLandscape, your idea sounds like a speedline, which is a fine idea, it's just that I don't have a way to retrieve the sling once the branch hits the ground.

Now, if I can find a way to combine the Highwayman's hitch with a speedline, then I might have something to work with.

It's interesting how the BB software filtered out the "curse word" from the link for the highwaymans hitch. See above.

Thanks.


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## 1CallLandscape (Apr 27, 2006)

rmihalek said:


> I don't know why that previous post went in twice...
> 
> Anyway, 1CallLandscape, your idea sounds like a speedline, which is a fine idea, it's just that I don't have a way to retrieve the sling once the branch hits the ground.
> 
> ...




hey, i have about 15 loop lines with caribeaners for my speedline that i take up on a line and put in the tree. then i can cut it all down without untying one time. i did 6 huge pines today like that and it works great i ran the line rught to the back of my chipper and didnt have to move the limbs twice..... when you are done with cutting down just untie them and your done. this works great with two people even better. hope this helps...
-mike


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## coydog (Apr 27, 2006)

sawn_penn said:


> A "highwayman's hitch" allows you to lower an object, using one side of the line to support the weight and the other side as a quick release.
> 
> http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/highwayman????ch.htm
> 
> ...


Sawn, have you actually used this technique in a tree? What percentage of the time does the free end get snagged and release the load prematurely?


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## coydog (Apr 27, 2006)

I'm thinking this thread does not belong in recreational tree climbing.


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## sawn_penn (Apr 28, 2006)

coydog said:


> Sawn, have you actually used this technique in a tree? What percentage of the time does the free end get snagged and release the load prematurely?



The free end needs quite a pull to get a release, especially after there has been load on the "loadable" end.

I've lowered a few branches this way, but I've mainly used the technique for lowering bags in expedition caving. Often there isn't another set of hands to untie gear.

Yes, this doesn't belong in rec climbing. Someone start another thread in the right area if you want to continue.


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## rmihalek (Apr 28, 2006)

I don't know why a recreational climber wouldn't need to know how to lower some dead limbs out of a tree? Especially (as in my case) when it's the first time the tree has ever been climbed and it's full of 1 to 3 inch diameter dead limbs.

I look at it as a safety issue so that subsequent climbs don't involve having so many dead limbs in the tree that can fall to the ground and break stuff or injure people.


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## moss (Apr 28, 2006)

Agreed Bob, rec climbers need to be able to take hazards out of a tree within reason (within the skill limits of the individual climber). Start with small stuff and work your way up. Making a mistake with a 2" diameter branch is a lot better than the same with an 6" diameter branch. Beware the bouncing Silky saw, I finally nipped my thumb a couple weeks ago, holding a small branch too close to the cut. Was a very minor injury. Fatigue was a factor at the time. 99.9% of the time something's gone spotty dog in a tree it's mental error due to a combination of fatigue and/or dehydration. Lessons learned.

Zipline and multiple slings is a good way to go if you can't throw the branches clear of a ground feature.

I've lowered medium size branches with a looped rigging line twice the length of my height in the tree and just pulled the rope back up when the branch was on the ground. You can girth hitch a sling on the branch to have good control off the branch. Put the loop of the rigging line through the loop of the girthed sling. There are plenty of opportunities to tangle your rigging line this way.

I've been way busy with work and other stuff the last month so haven't been able to ring you up for some climbing. Will do so as soon as I get free.
-moss


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## coydog (Apr 28, 2006)

I'll have to try that out for fun sometime, sawn.
It's really a matter of semantics i guess, certainly a recreational climber will benefit from pruning and rigging knowledge to remove hazards,when the focus of the thread is on methods to lower branches without a spotter on the ground it's not really about safety because solo climbing is not safe and especially not so for an inexperienced climber. A little searching on the commercial thread will reveal that this topic has been debated at length as well as a variety of techniques discussed.Just a heads up to look around some other threads and not open a bag of worms that has already been opened elsewhere on this forum.just my 2 cents


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## sawn_penn (Apr 28, 2006)

Highwayman's hitch starting with a full turn...






Tuck the release side through the loop to form another loop.





Tuck the loaded side through the loop you just formed, to form yet another loop.





Finally tuck the release side through the last loop.





Another view.





So, any time you need to lower a rolling pin out of a tree, this is the knot for the job.


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## moss (Apr 29, 2006)

That's perfect Sawn Penn, now I can lower a rolling pin to the ground so my wife can beat me for spending too much time in trees. I think lowering rolling pins is certainly within the range of acceptable tree activity for rec climbers.

Thanks for posting that, an excellent piece of knot work.


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## sawn_penn (Apr 29, 2006)

moss said:


> ...an excellent piece of knot work.



"Knot work", and therefore "reckreational" and hence in the correct forum?


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## moss (Apr 29, 2006)

sawn_penn said:


> "Knot work", and therefore "reckreational" and hence in the correct forum?


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## sawn_penn (Apr 29, 2006)

The highwayman's hitch (the knot above, but without the extra turn around the branch at the beginning) was allegedly used by highwaymen (bandits) as a quick release knot for horse reins.


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## 1CallLandscape (Apr 30, 2006)

pretty cool knot, i never knew that one. looks pretty difficult to tie atop a swaying tree , even for us pros nevermind a rec. climber that is just getting into climbing. my advice as a pro is if your not sure about tying a cool knot 
( like the highwaymans hitch) on the ground dont even attempt it in a tree. 
your best off either throwing the limb (if its small) clear of the obsticle, or tying it off one at a time and lowering it to the ground. if your a rec climber play it safe. a small 1" limb can really do a ### on anything you are trying to not hit.

Attached is another way to lower limbs effectively even for a rec climber. i use it daily....alone, yes i know alone is bad....
-mike


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