# hard hats



## superjunior (Dec 18, 2011)

I'll admit I don't wear a hard hat as often as I should. One of the biggest reasons is it just falls off my head constantly. So I've been looking at the petzl vertex vent 2 or the petzl veleo. The veleo is supposed to be a couple oz's lighter and has larger vents. I like the idea of being able to close the vents which the vertex 2 offers and the veleo does not. Anyone have any experience with both? Opinions? Gonna pull the trigger soon and I'm torn between the two.

Also my guys are having the same problem with the hats falling off, no straps. I have a bunch of hard hats from stihl, husky, rayco.. I think they're all the same from peltor maybe? They're good hard hats but they just need chin straps. Looking at the mid west catalog here I see Rockman offers a chin strap for their hard hats. Are these universal? I'd hate to buy all new hard hats just cause they don't have chin straps.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 18, 2011)

I havent really ever had a problem with my hard hat falling off my head. I got the Omega II Hi-Vis Orange Full Brim Hat with Ratchet Suspension from baileys. If you tighten the ratchet to a snug fit, it shouldn't fall off your head. I have even climbed with mine on and had no problems. As far as a climbing helmet, I have a older Petzel Helmet I bought 10 years ago.


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## superjunior (Dec 18, 2011)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I havent really ever had a problem with my hard hat falling off my head. I got the Omega II Hi-Vis Orange Full Brim Hat with Ratchet Suspension from baileys. If you tighten the ratchet to a snug fit, it shouldn't fall off your head. I have even climbed with mine on and had no problems. As far as a climbing helmet, I have a older Petzel Helmet I bought 10 years ago.



the hats I have are the same, has a ratcheting tightener in the back that seams to loosen up on its own. gonna get a new climbing hard hat regardless, I'd just hate to have to replace all the other hard hats if I can just get chin straps for them.


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## lone wolf (Dec 18, 2011)

The Petzel is nice not to heavy.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 18, 2011)

i think you can get replacement rachets for the hardhats. They are only $12 each. Maybe santa will bring you some.


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## superjunior (Dec 18, 2011)

2treeornot2tree said:


> i think you can get replacement rachets for the hardhats. They are only $12 each. Maybe santa will bring you some.



not a bad idea, I'm just thinking that chin straps will not give my guys ANY excuse not to have them on. of course they'll probably b##ch that the chinstraps are uncomfortable lol..


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## superjunior (Dec 18, 2011)

lone wolf said:


> The Petzel is nice not to heavy.



which one?


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## ATH (Dec 18, 2011)

First, there are chin straps for regular hard hats. Many, but not all have the little holes for thestrap on the sides. Here is a wildland fire fighter chin strap. Standard issue on the fire line. Everybody has one looped over the front of their hardhat. It is required if you are on a helicopter - otherwise, I can't think of a time when I have ever seen somebody wearing theirs. Less comprotable than the straps on climbing hats.

This looks like it may be a better option for upgrading a standard hardhat.

As for climbing hats: I have a Vertex vent, and like it just fine. I haven't worn a veleo so no comparison to offer. The climbing hats do look a little dorky for ground guys...but I think that is just because it is not the 'normal' hardhat. I'd also argue that it looks far less dorky than a dented head.


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## TimberJack_7 (Dec 18, 2011)

I have been wearing the Petzl Vertex Best for the last few years and love that helmet. Before I got this helmet, I had the same problems you described when I wore my Husqvarna "arborist helmet" with the shortened brim. I have not had a single problem at all with the Petzl.


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## TimberJack_7 (Dec 18, 2011)

Tree Climbing Helmets for Professional Arborists


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## superjunior (Dec 18, 2011)

TimberJack_7 said:


> I have been wearing the Petzl Vertex Best for the last few years and love that helmet. Before I got this helmet, I had the same problems you described when I wore my Husqvarna "arborist helmet" with the shortened brim. I have not had a single problem at all with the Petzl.



cool, think I'm leaning towards that one cause of the adjustable vents.


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## Huskytree (Dec 18, 2011)

*Petzl Vertex*

I have been using the Vertex and really like it. I sweat like a pig in a BBQ pit and find the venting very good. When it is cold out I close them halfway and am good to go. Its the only helmet I have run so can't compare it to others.


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## rbtree (Dec 18, 2011)

superjunior said:


> cool, think I'm leaning towards that one cause of the adjustable vents.



That's the Vent, not the Best..... I have one of each.....and a Pacific--kevlar --heavier, but longer lasting and better side support due to the brim.


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## superjunior (Dec 18, 2011)

rbtree said:


> That's the Vent, not the Best..... I have one of each.....and a Pacific--kevlar --heavier, but longer lasting and better side support due to the brim.



which is your favorite?


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## Grouchy old man (Dec 18, 2011)

> I have a bunch of hard hats from stihl, husky, rayco.. I think they're all the same from peltor maybe? They're good hard hats but they just need chin straps.



I find that with those type hard hats the chin strap will interfere with the ear muff hearing protectors because of the strap attachment point location. 



> The climbing hats do look a little dorky for ground guys...



Personally I can't stand the way they look on anybody. What is it about Euro gear styling and making men look like space rangers?


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## Tdaz250 (Dec 18, 2011)

Heres what i've got. Comfy all day and its not too hot. 

Kevlar Helmet by Pacific (3 colors) : SherrillTree Tree Care Equipment


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## superjunior (Dec 18, 2011)

Grouchy old man said:


> I find that with those type hard hats the chin strap will interfere with the ear muff hearing protectors because of the strap attachment point location.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I can't stand the way they look on anybody. What is it about Euro gear styling and making men look like space rangers?



the guys have already torn the muffs and masks off em anyway, its all I can do just to keep something on their head..

is there a climbing helmet out there that doesn't make one look like a space dork?


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## tree md (Dec 18, 2011)

LOL, my climbing helmet makes me look like a complete dork. It's a Black Diamond half dome. I could give a rats azz about how it makes me look. I would rather impress my clientele with performance than stylish garb. It's effective, comfortable and didn't break the piggy bank. I think I paid $55 for it 5 or so years back.

I'm trying to figure out what kind of drugs these helmet designers are on. Have you seen the whacked out bike helmets?


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## rymancm (Dec 18, 2011)

I have used a Petzl Vertex Vent for years, and a Petzl Ecrin Roc before that. The Vertex Vent is kind of clunky, moves around on my head even when tightened down, and the sweatband sucks (non-absorbant and literally channels the sweat into your eyes). The newer ones may be better. I recently got a Kask which, although not perfect, is better. It's lighter, more comfortable (feels more like a good bike helmet, not like a hardhat) and has a real sweatband (yeah, it gets manky but at least it does its job). The robocop faceshield is ridiculous, however, and the earmuff attachment clips are a joke. Petzl's built in slots are way simpler and way more secure. Despite its flaws, I'd still take the Kask over the Petzl. I think they are going the right direction making their helmets more fitted like bike helmets while Petzl seems stuck on the same high-riding hard hat suspension design that has been around forever and that no one has ever liked. I haven't seen the newest generation of any of these helmets in person so I may be a bit off in my comments, but I would at least check out Kask before buying a Petzl.


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## superjunior (Dec 18, 2011)

Tdaz250 said:


> Heres what i've got. Comfy all day and its not too hot.
> 
> Kevlar Helmet by Pacific (3 colors) : SherrillTree Tree Care Equipment



that looks like a real nice hh for the ground, wonder if it would a bit bulky in the tree?


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## superjunior (Dec 18, 2011)

rymancm said:


> I have used a Petzl Vertex Vent for years, and a Petzl Ecrin Roc before that. The Vertex Vent is kind of clunky, moves around on my head even when tightened down, and the sweatband sucks (non-absorbant and literally channels the sweat into your eyes). The newer ones may be better. I recently got a Kask which, although not perfect, is better. It's lighter, more comfortable (feels more like a good bike helmet, not like a hardhat) and has a real sweatband (yeah, it gets manky but at least it does its job). The robocop faceshield is ridiculous, however, and the earmuff attachment clips are a joke. Petzl's built in slots are way simpler and way more secure. Despite its flaws, I'd still take the Kask over the Petzl. I think they are going the right direction making their helmets more fitted like bike helmets while Petzl seems stuck on the same high-riding hard hat suspension design that has been around forever and that no one has ever liked. I haven't seen the newest generation of any of these helmets in person so I may be a bit off in my comments, but I would at least check out Kask before buying a Petzl.



appreciate the input, haven't even looked at kask


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## rymancm (Dec 18, 2011)

Couldn't resist throwing in a photo of my ground crew, with helmets!


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## beastmaster (Dec 18, 2011)

I use to ware a pacific kelvar helmet. Even with the chin strap it would move all over my head, and never fitted right. When the headliner broke(35.00) I went and bought a Rockman. I love that helmet. It fits my little bullet head perfect, the chin strap is one of the best designs around IMHO. I prefer to have a brim on my climbing helmet in the belief it may protect my face in case of a kick back from a chainsaw. I ware my helmet from the time I step out of the truck tell the end of the day when I get back in. Use it for a pillow at lunch. My Pacific helmet cost around a 100.00 I think, the rock man 35.00. I feel like I should be riding the little bus with those petzl climbing helmets. I dropped my Pacific helmet from a tree and it cracked as it was designed to, but I still wore it cuz it cost a hundered dollars to replace.I
I did my research and went with the rockman, check them out. Not just the best for the money but one of the best at any price.


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## tree md (Dec 18, 2011)

beastmaster said:


> I use to ware a pacific kelvar helmet. Even with the chin strap it would move all over my head, and never fitted right. When the headliner broke(35.00) I went and bought a Rockman. I love that helmet. It fits my little bullet head perfect, the chin strap is one of the best designs around IMHO. I prefer to have a brim on my climbing helmet in the belief it may protect my face in case of a kick back from a chainsaw. I ware my helmet from the time I step out of the truck tell the end of the day when I get back in. Use it for a pillow at lunch. My Pacific helmet cost around a 100.00 I think, the rock man 35.00. I feel like I should be riding the little bus with those petzl climbing helmets. I dropped my Pacific helmet from a tree and it cracked as it was designed to, but I still wore it cuz it cost a hundered dollars to replace.I
> I did my research and went with the rockman, check them out. Not just the best for the money but one of the best at any price.



Not a bad looking helmet. Looks like it's vented in the crown as well. The price is definitely right. Baileys has just the helmet alone for $29.99. Looks like they go for $49.99 with muffs and face shield. I may pick a couple of them up for the groundys and if I like it I may keep one for myself.


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## TimberMcPherson (Dec 19, 2011)

Having guys complain about the "look" of there helmet makes me laugh. 

I love the petzl vertex vents, all my crew wear em, comfortable and tough. Just awesome. I have been wearing petzl lids for over a decade, I rate them highly.


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## imagineero (Dec 19, 2011)

its hard to go wrong with anything petzl.

Lots of vents are good, light is good. You need a helmet that will work with whatever earmuffs you like, and a screen/visor if you want that. Closable vents are a bit of a gimmick. Chin straps are pretty annoying and as already mentioned they make most earmuffs useless.

I've owned the pacific kevlar, and I really liked it a lot for ground use. It had just about the best headgear I've ever had on a helmet but it is much heavier than all the other helmets. You dont notice it so much on the ground but when climbing you end up with a sore neck. The weight is up high so as soon as you tilt your head it's all off centre. Muffs fit them easily and you can also fit a mesh visor which I like for stump grinding.

I've had a Kask for about 6 months now and I'm liking it. It's light, and sits low on your head which is great. Plenty of vents, but I had to screw an earmuff mount to the side of it. It has a ratcheting strap at the back and feels secure, it's never fallen of even when I've fallen out of the tree. The white one looks the least ridiculous. They have a flip up space trooper style visor which I havent tried, I figure it would be all scratched to hell in a days work. 

Shaun


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 19, 2011)

Just a reminder for those who don't know. If you go to a rock climbing store, you will often find petzl and black diamond gear for about half price of what the arb sites charge. That petzl vertex vent, its about 65 as compared to 115. Biners and slings are about half price as well.
I use the vertex, love it, guys have plain jane hi-vis orange ones. Need to get them chin straps, for the same reason as you guys.


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## NCTREE (Dec 19, 2011)

I wore the petzel vertex for years and had no problems, its a very good helmet. Last spring a purchased a kask helmet and so far been loving it, its even more comfy than the vertex.


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## deevo (Dec 19, 2011)

TimberJack_7 said:


> I have been wearing the Petzl Vertex Best for the last few years and love that helmet. Before I got this helmet, I had the same problems you described when I wore my Husqvarna "arborist helmet" with the shortened brim. I have not had a single problem at all with the Petzl.



Same here, been wearing the Vertex for about 6 years, like it. I have 2 of them, one with the head lamp for night time emergencies only. So it doesn't get banged up like the regular daily melon saver. I think its made pretty good, and have no issues with it.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 19, 2011)

I dont think hard hats are ever comfortable. You just get to the point were you tolerate them. I had this guy working for me, that would not wear his safety glasses. Finally I told him if i see him again without them on, he's fired no if and or buts. He got the point real quick. Its not only his eyes but my butt when the insurance company asks what happen.


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## TreeAce (Dec 19, 2011)

I have a kask and I like it alot. I havent tried any others except the the regular old bollard. I did try on a pacific at sherrill once and I didnt like the fit. Seemed like it was riding super high on my head. Maybe I didnt adjust it properly. I have peltor muffs and a clear visor and have no problems at all. The visor isnt suppossed to eliminate the need for glasses. It does help ALOT when chips are blowing into your face though. I also love the quick adjust dial on the back. My only complaint is how nasty the liner gets in the summer. It is held in with velcro so it comes out without to much trouble for washing. It needed washed about once a week in the warm months. I wonder if the liner thing is a trade off for it not sliding around on my head. And FWIW...which aint much....I have gotten several comments on what a sweet helmet I have. But those comments came from guys who appreciate good PPE, a firefighter and a iron hanger was amongst em.


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## mikegar (Dec 19, 2011)

rymancm said:


> Couldn't resist throwing in a photo of my ground crew, with helmets!



Did your other groundman forget his hard hat? Is that why he is standing way far back?


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## Grouchy old man (Dec 19, 2011)

Looks like a gawker or HO taking pictures, not part of his crew.


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## Ollie B (Dec 19, 2011)

Grouchy old man said:


> Personally I can't stand the way they look on anybody. What is it about Euro gear styling and making men look like space rangers?



What's wrong with looking like a space ranger?  

But seriously folks, I usually just wear my full-brim wildland fire helmet. It does have a chinstrap if I really want it, but I find that the ratchet is AWESOME even without. That sonofagun stays where I put it up on my head, even with dreadlocks.


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## oscar4883 (Dec 19, 2011)

I wear the Vertex vent and it is a nice unit. For regular hard hats I found Fibre Metal to be the best by far. Worn by welders, iron workers, and miners all over the world. Type I - Fibre-Metal


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## Grouchy old man (Dec 19, 2011)

Ollie B said:


> What's wrong with looking like a space ranger?
> 
> But seriously folks, I usually just wear my full-brim wildland fire helmet. It does have a chinstrap if I really want it, but I find that the ratchet is AWESOME even without. That sonofagun stays where I put it up on my head, even with dreadlocks.



I agree. What really makes a climbing helmet anyway? All it's supposed to have is a chinstrap to keep you from losing it. I don't know about a full brim for climbing because it could get snagged or in the way but that E2 style that everybody also makes is fine. That ugly Euro stuff costs 10 times more and I don't even think it meets US ANSI standards for protection. That's probably why they sit lower on your head. 

Somebody mentioned bicycle helmets. They are the same companies that make the climbing helmets.


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## Toddppm (Dec 19, 2011)

oscar4883 said:


> I wear the Vertex vent and it is a nice unit. For regular hard hats I found Fibre Metal to be the best by far. Worn by welders, iron workers, and miners all over the world. Type I - Fibre-Metal



What the heck is this? Is this for the guys that absolutely refuse to confrom and must wear their hardhat backwards? They should just include a baseball cap underneath too, that seems to be standard.
View attachment 212225


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 19, 2011)

Toddppm said:


> What the heck is this? Is this for the guys that absolutely refuse to confrom and must wear their hardhat backwards? They should just include a baseball cap underneath too, that seems to be standard.
> View attachment 212225



Lol. Ya gotsta look cool when you're workin'. 

I've been with the vertex vent and peltor muffs for a few years now. It does feel a little top heavy and wobble around at times but I've gotten used to it. My muffs are all torn up so I ordered the better quality ones from sherrill just now as well as one of those rockman helmets md was talking about to check out. I'll let you guys know how it works.


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## Kottonwood (Dec 19, 2011)

Bailey's - Replacement Hearing Protectors for Husqvarna Forestry Helmet System


For anyone that uses the petzl helmets these earmuffs are the bomb-diggity. I have noticed that many of the attached ear muffs have just metal wire to hold it to your head, I find they don't hold tight enough and therefore don't provide proper ear protection. These ones hold nice and tight. Also, because of how tight they hold, they actually give support for helmet and there seems to be less moving around.


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## Grouchy old man (Dec 19, 2011)

Wow, they do look good and should work with any hardhat that has the standard earmuff slots.


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## superjunior (Dec 19, 2011)

lots of good feedback here :msp_thumbup:
But now I'm stuck between the vertex, veleo, kask or pacific kevlar. They all sound good and are in the same price range


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## Kottonwood (Dec 19, 2011)

Grouchy old man said:


> Wow, they do look good and should work with any hardhat that has the standard earmuff slots.



Yeah they should work on about anything, I know they work on petzls. One of my groundies actually uses the whole husqvarna helmet system and loves it. I wouldn't use it for climbing but it is a very good inexpensive option for groundmen...... IMO for the most part I will stick with stihl saws but Husky makes a much better forestry helmet!


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## Tdaz250 (Dec 19, 2011)

superjunior said:


> that looks like a real nice hh for the ground, wonder if it would a bit bulky in the tree?



The company i used to work for it was about 50/50 between those and a petzl(that the climbers used). I was actually going to get a petzl then the boss let me try his new hh(which was that one) and i decided to get that one


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## tree md (Dec 19, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> Lol. Ya gotsta look cool when you're workin'.
> 
> I've been with the vertex vent and peltor muffs for a few years now. It does feel a little top heavy and wobble around at times but I've gotten used to it. My muffs are all torn up so I ordered the better quality ones from sherrill just now as well as one of those rockman helmets md was talking about to check out. I'll let you guys know how it works.



I always wear a bandana doo rag style when I work. Number one, to keep the sawdust out of my hair and scalp. I bring enough of it in the house as it is without having a head full of it. Number two, it keeps the sweat out of my eyes and keeps any helmet firmly on my head. It will eliminate any wobbling around on your noggin. Number 3, it will keep the sweatband inside of the helmet from getting too grody and stinky.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I wear earplugs instead of muffs. can't stand to wear the muffs on my ears. It's hot and they bug the crap out of me. I have muffs on my ground helmets but I always flop them out on the rare occaision that I wear one of those.


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## Kottonwood (Dec 19, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Just a reminder for those who don't know. If you go to a rock climbing store, you will often find petzl and black diamond gear for about half price of what the arb sites charge. That petzl vertex vent, its about 65 as compared to 115. Biners and slings are about half price as well.
> I use the vertex, love it, guys have plain jane hi-vis orange ones. Need to get them chin straps, for the same reason as you guys.



Most of the ones in the rock climbing stores don't come with the mounts for ear pro though. I used to be very bad about ear pro, now that it is on my helmet I find myself wearing it all the time.... even when I am talking (yelling) with customers.


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 19, 2011)

tree md said:


> I always wear a bandana doo rag style when I work. Number one, to keep the sawdust out of my hair and scalp. I bring enough of it in the house as it is without having a head full of it. Number two, it keeps the sweat out of my eyes and keeps any helmet firmly on my head. It will eliminate any wobbling around on your noggin. Number 3, it will keep the sweatband inside of the helmet from getting too grody and stinky.
> 
> EDIT: Oh yeah, I wear earplugs instead of muffs. can't stand to wear the muffs on my ears. It's hot and they bug the crap out of me. I have muffs on my ground helmets but I always flop them out on the rare occaision that I wear one of those.




I'm just the opposite with the muffs. I ####in' love em'. Yeah, they add some extra weight to the top when not in use ( hence the wobbly thing I get with helmets ) but being able to flip them on and off in 2 seconds is pretty sweet, plus they're part of my hat so it's not an extra thing to think about having, they're always there. I usually do all my limbing without them on and only pull them down when I start knocking down chunks or when I'm chipping.


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## superjunior (Dec 19, 2011)

tree md said:


> EDIT: Oh yeah, I wear earplugs instead of muffs. can't stand to wear the muffs on my ears. It's hot and they bug the crap out of me. I have muffs on my ground helmets but I always flop them out on the rare occaision that I wear one of those.



me too, especially in the heat of the summer


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## dbl612 (Dec 19, 2011)

*hardhat*



Toddppm said:


> What the heck is this? Is this for the guys that absolutely refuse to confrom and must wear their hardhat backwards? They should just include a baseball cap underneath too, that seems to be standard.
> View attachment 212225



this hardhat is designed for use with welding hemets and face shields. standard gear for construction folks.


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## SoiLLclimber (Dec 19, 2011)

I think the best option on the market now is Kask. The helmet sits lower on your head compared to Petzl. The rotating adjustment knob makes it easy to loosen or tighten in a flash. Great all around helmet IMO. Now I know that everyone hates that they make you look like a power ranger or robo cop but as a younger climber I don't mind it one bit. Even the colors are cool. I rock a yellow dome with yellow muffs while my bro has a blue hat with black muffs. It also seems like if the PPE looks more modern and has some attitude, more are likely to wear it.


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## tree md (Dec 19, 2011)

This guy is a real dork, I tell ya!


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## TreeAce (Dec 19, 2011)

tree md said:


> This guy is a real dork, I tell ya!



Boy I'll say! Esp with that big as.s chainsaw. Thats a dead give away that your looking at a dork. But seriously, whats up with that chain around the tree? Is it a back up for a split or something?


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## tree md (Dec 19, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> Boy I'll say! Esp with that big as.s chainsaw. Thats a dead give away that your looking at a dork. But seriously, whats up with that chain around the tree? Is it a back up for a split or something?



It was a bad co-dominant tree with a serious cavity in it that I did about two years ago. I put a logging chain down low and a ratchet strap up high as I had to rig from it. Had septic system and laterals below.
















Still hung some big chunks out of it:


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## ATH (Dec 19, 2011)

Another vote for plugs instead of muffs. I like the Banded ear plugs for easy on, easy off (one handed), they stay put on my neck when not in use, and work well.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 20, 2011)

Thats nice hard hat your groundy is wearing, at least he has his safety glasses. The bad thing about chaining and comalonging that tree together like that is that if you get it to tight it could still bust out the bottom.


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## derwoodii (Dec 20, 2011)

The bloke who comes up with a decent tree worker lid that does all required and don't give me helmet hair gonna be on my Chrissy list, he'll make a few bucks on the way too. Till then I just up n suffer wear what ever works its best when I see fit or get the tingle in ma bones that says, watch out today yer fool of lad.


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## tree md (Dec 20, 2011)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Thats nice hard hat your groundy is wearing, at least he has his safety glasses. The bad thing about chaining and comalonging that tree together like that is that if you get it to tight it could still bust out the bottom.



Well, to tell the truth that groundy has been to Iraq twice and Afghanistan once... He is a 24 year Army vet. I figure he has been through enough #### and survived that he can decide for himself if he wants to wear his lid or not. There's one provided for him.

As to the come along, I just put a little tension on it, not too much. Just enough to brace it up so I could rig from it.


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## TreeAce (Dec 20, 2011)

ATH said:


> Another vote for plugs instead of muffs. I like the Banded ear plugs for easy on, easy off (one handed), they stay put on my neck when not in use, and work well.



I tried a pair of those and hated em, but I cant remember why.......:msp_unsure:


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## oscar4883 (Dec 21, 2011)

Toddppm said:


> What the heck is this? Is this for the guys that absolutely refuse to confrom and must wear their hardhat backwards? They should just include a baseball cap underneath too, that seems to be standard.
> View attachment 212225



The suspension piece that goes behind your head pivots so that the hat can be worn backwards when needed. While not necessary for our work, it is for other trades when attachments like a welding helmet, face shield, etc. are used.


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## ATH (Dec 21, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> I tried a pair of those and hated em, but I cant remember why.......:msp_unsure:


I tried another brand - rubber ends instead of foam, and more countoured so they look like they will be more comfortable, but they rub my ears wrong, so if that was the first pair I tried I probably wouldn't use them. The plugs on these are long enough that the band does not run against my ear.


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## TreeAce (Dec 22, 2011)

Did someone mention "space rangers " earlier?? Check this cat out...."TO THE FOREST...AND BEYOND!!" lmao. I love TreeStuff but I can't stop laughing at this


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## superjunior (Dec 22, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> Did someone mention "space rangers " earlier?? Check this cat out...."TO THE FOREST...AND BEYOND!!" lmao. I love TreeStuff but I can't stop laughing at this



wow. I just ordered some green lids with our company logo on them and I thought the green might be a little over the top. But after seeing that I reckon not


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## mattmattmatt (Dec 28, 2011)

A guy with 40+ years experience I have been doing some contract climbing for insists that all chainsaw helmets must have a brim for kickback hazard, which seems reasonable, but Z133.1 & Z89.1 are silent on this topic as far as I can tell (I don't have access to the latest standards). They are also silent on the topic of chin straps for climbers, where the helmet itself becomes the struck-by hazard to groundies. I never have any problems with my helmet falling off (photo attached). I zip-tied the muffs to the helmet to make sure the muffs could not fall off and hazard anyone below because the Peltor clips are not secure enough. The muffs hold the helmet on my head really well and I can flick them up to communicate below. I tried a chin-strap system once but it interferes with the muff seal. The brim is good because it protects from the sun and the euro-style helmets look gay (am I allowed to write that?), the groundies or I will never wear them.


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## rymancm (Dec 29, 2011)

mattmattmatt said:


> A guy with 40+ years experience I have been doing some contract climbing for insists that all chainsaw helmets must have a brim for kickback hazard, which seems reasonable, but Z133.1 & Z89.1 are silent on this topic as far as I can tell (I don't have access to the latest standards). They are also silent on the topic of chin straps for climbers, where the helmet itself becomes the struck-by hazard to groundies. I never have any problems with my helmet falling off (photo attached). I zip-tied the muffs to the helmet to make sure the muffs could not fall off and hazard anyone below because the Peltor clips are not secure enough. The muffs hold the helmet on my head really well and I can flick them up to communicate below. I tried a chin-strap system once but it interferes with the muff seal. The brim is good because it protects from the sun and the euro-style helmets look gay (am I allowed to write that?), the groundies or I will never wear them.



Did you drill those holes along the crest? Just curious.


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## Grouchy old man (Dec 30, 2011)

mattmattmatt said:


> I zip-tied the muffs to the helmet to make sure the muffs could not fall off and hazard anyone below because the Peltor clips are not secure enough.


Good idea but is there a little OCD going on there? I would think only two ties in the lower holes on each side would do it. Matter of fact those holes in the clips must be there for some purpose. I wonder if you could drill holes and put machine screws through from the inside of the helmet with washers and nuts on the clip side? I'll have to look at mine, I have the same setup but my muff clips are nice and tight.


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## mattmattmatt (Dec 30, 2011)

Agreed, there is some OCD here. It is the government, you see they will change the law here in QLD in the new year 2012, failure to comply with the duty of care will become a criminal offence in the first instance, whereas previously there was some latitude for Dept of Industrial Relations or the Dept of Health, OH&S etc to apply discretion, the way it is going now the Police will be forced to investigate and knowing them they will look for anything to use against you to support their case, if there was an incident. The fines are huge and you would definitely lose your business licence, no more tree climbing. So I have been researching this topic of hard hats because I was always unsure of the requirements (ANSI standards are the defacto Australian standard) and I figure 4 holes show more duty of care than leaving two holes empty. As for machine screws, a mate of mine got struck-by with this same setup on his head and he got the peltor wires, that is the solid steel bits that hold the muffs, he got one of those through his cheek and into his upper jaw, so I am looking to eliminate as much steel as possible there you see. I had to drill holes into the top to dissipate heat, it is very hot and humid here and the holes definitely help. I figure the holes can only compromise my safety, if at all, and they don't diminish my duty of care to others so my professional integrity is intact there. It is all a bit OCD for sure but good to know that I can defend my position if audited, now I can relax and carry on making money out of trees!

For the Queenslanders, here I've attached the QLD WHS-2011 guide, page 36 is the new stuff, comes into effect January 1st. Note this is not specific to arboriculture, it's general to all workplaces so hopefully they will leave us alone.


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## Jumper (Jan 2, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I dont think hard hats are ever comfortable. You just get to the point were you tolerate them. I had this guy working for me, that would not wear his safety glasses. Finally I told him if i see him again without them on, he's fired no if and or buts. He got the point real quick. Its not only his eyes but my butt when the insurance company asks what happen.



I have heard every excuse in the book why PPE is not being worn(it is too hot, it is too cold, it hurts, it is uncomfortable, I work in the office etc etc) and my answer is along the lines of yours, wear it or look for a new job. Most places in Alberta are really good about enforcing the law, and the Labour Ministry is on a spin fining and closing down businesses who choose to ignore it......there were dozens of issued stop work orders for lack of fall protection equipment alone in the weeks leading up to Xmas.....Would you free climb a tree and work without a saddle??? 

As for hard hats wear what works for you and to hell with what it looks like.....I look like a dork in a warehouse wearing a bump cap but I am tired of having items fall off shelves onto my head when I am trying to pull something else to ship. And one of the reasons I left where I was temping before Xmas was the total lack of safety awareness of the managers in the place.....I am not going to swing for their stupidity...no safety footwear, riding forklift tines to access shelves 30 feet off the ground with no fall arrest, and a condemned forklift still being used for starters.


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## Jumper (Jan 2, 2012)

superjunior said:


> wow. I just ordered some green lids with our company logo on them and I thought the green might be a little over the top. But after seeing that I reckon not



Green lids on a lot of sites in Alberta indicates newbie ie new employees.....and I recently bought a new light blue one for when I work for Habitat.......indicates volunteer(not my colour normally!)


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## superjunior (Jan 2, 2012)

Jumper said:


> Would you free climb a tree and work without a saddle???



Why this fine young lad does. Notice the precision, the accuracy and professionalism.

James the narcoleptic tree cutter - YouTube


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## TreEmergencyB (Jan 6, 2012)

I wear the petzel aleavo (sp?) the other guys on the crew have the vertex. Both nice and comfy mine fits a lil bit nicer and is lighter. The real difference is the vents dont close on mine but you can adjust the way it sits on your head better.


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## Nemus Talea (Jan 13, 2012)

Different shape heads effect fit and no one can be wrong about what they like and works. A buddy of mine, who works concrete, has a large head that's absolutely vertical in the back. He can tighten a ratchet till he gets a headache and it still slips.
What is the life span of these Kasks? Manufacturer advised disposal due to age and UV exposure that is. A $15 hat, replaced every couple years and after any moderate strike or other abuse, is probably better protection than an old, abused, sun beaten brittle $100+ lid. Of course the Kevlars do good with the UV but you cook in summer.
Regarding groundies loosing their hats while looking up, get some elastic from a sewing supply and tie it to the suspensions of the ppe offenders. if you want something more refined, bullard has a strap that I know will work with the venerable Husky forestry helmet. I got one from Spur or Sherrill for 3 bucks if i recall correctly.


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## superjunior (Jan 13, 2012)

I ended up getting the groundies and myself rockman forestry helmets. They're light, comfortable, vented and have a very nice 4 point chinstrap set up. For 30$ a pop I thought it was a great buy. Also got myself a decent climbing lid from rock helmets, it's comfy, light and vented and was only 60$ Since I spent a lot less on hard hats then I was anticipating I got our company logo on them and they look sweet!


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## beastmaster (Jan 14, 2012)

superjunior said:


> I ended up getting the groundies and myself rockman forestry helmets. They're light, comfortable, vented and have a very nice 4 point chinstrap set up. For 30$ a pop I thought it was a great buy. Also got myself a decent climbing lid from rock helmets, it's comfy, light and vented and was only 60$ Since I spent a lot less on hard hats then I was anticipating I got our company logo on them and they look sweet!



I was feeling hurt no one liked the rockman's beside me. I love my rockman, it's light, it looks kind of cool, it approved to work around 
HV. I wear my helmet all day, and it never gets uncomfortable or hot. I agree with who ever said that a brim can protect you from saw kick back. 
Just because their only 30 bucks don't mean their cheap. Plus a helmet with out the chin strap doesn't offer the protection of one that does, and rockman has one of the best chinstraps around IMHO. Rockman Rocks


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## derwoodii (Jan 14, 2012)

> I have been researching this topic of hard hats because I was always unsure of the requirements (ANSI standards are the defacto Australian standard)




Riddle me this then, I be interested on why ocean race yachts men can work under swingin booms and sails and climb rigging and masts without even basic height harness gear or safety helmet. Its a odd hypocrisy that some high end dangerous endeavours ones can operate without a helmet. But ride ya bicycle or go on any OZ work site and bang you got a lid on or else. 










Ha, check out the sun hat hard hat non invert safe harness and swingin boom at head height that with a rope wrapped around ya legs.


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## superjunior (Jan 14, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> I was feeling hurt no one liked the rockman's beside me. I love my rockman, it's light, it looks kind of cool, it approved to work around
> HV. I wear my helmet all day, and it never gets uncomfortable or hot. I agree with who ever said that a brim can protect you from saw kick back.
> Just because their only 30 bucks don't mean their cheap. Plus a helmet with out the chin strap doesn't offer the protection of one that does, and rockman has one of the best chinstraps around IMHO. Rockman Rocks



Your original post was the reason I checked them out in the first place. Thanks BM. 
Also the locking adjustable dial is one of the nicest I've seen on any lid. If anyone has to outfit their crew with some new hard hats the rockman is an excellent value


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## Iustinian (Jan 17, 2012)

I like my vertex vent, its very adjustable and light. as a previous poster said, the sweat band pretty much sucks, but I wear a Halo headband underneath which is really nice for keeping sweat out of the eyes. Alveo and Vertex both cover your temples, which is a point no ones brought up yet, which most other lids do not. Also want to point out that vented lids are not approved as "non-conductive" gear so they shouldn't be used in line clearing.


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 17, 2012)

Iustinian said:


> Also want to point out that vented lids are not approved as "non-conductive" gear so they shouldn't be used in line clearing.



I saw that it wasn't approved when I bought mine a few years back. Doesn't really make a difference to me as I don't do much powerline work but does anyone know why it's not approved? Just curious.


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## deevo (Jan 17, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> I saw that it wasn't approved when I bought mine a few years back. Doesn't really make a difference to me as I don't do much powerline work but does anyone know why it's not approved? Just curious.



It's the vent openings, but really, if you keep your MAD and know your limits wearing a vertex or normal helmet if you getting zapped, I highly doubt the outcome won't be the same. I have been looking around and for the most part never really came across any incidents about people contacting conductors head first. I'll admit I do have a another helmet for line clearing but usually wear my Vertex vent. Same with a lot of guys around here (that don't work for Hydro) they said the same as well. :redface:


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## Youngbuck20 (Jan 18, 2012)

The petzl best is what most guys in my program have chosen to pick up, I'll be doing the same.


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## ROPECLIMBER (Jan 22, 2012)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> Most of the ones in the rock climbing stores don't come with the mounts for ear pro though. I used to be very bad about ear pro, now that it is on my helmet I find myself wearing it all the time.... even when I am talking (yelling) with customers.



These rock climbing helments are one time impact, (starophome liner) like bike helments and they don't have ansi z133 rating so are not OSAH approved 

I checked when stayed up all night trying to buy just the suspension for my older petzel vertex vent


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## worldtravelin (May 3, 2012)

*no brainer*

This was a funny thread to read over. 

Petzl needs to get with the program and offer both billed & full brimmed helmets to fit on their suspension/chin strap designs. I've used the Ecrin since first rock climbing 20 yrs ago, and without second thought used it during my years as an arborist. Now that I work at heights in industrial settings, the Vertex is the obvious choice and I have one for work currently. Problem being, I have to make the choice when I go to industrial sites around the world if I'm going to spare myself the good ole boy ridicule while wearing the Vertex or take some cheap PoS rachet HH that falls of this long-haired reformed hippy's head. Until I grow a 3rd arm to keep my industry standard hh in place as I maneuver & use tools on towers or stacks, I guess I'll keep wearing the Vertex and get asked continually if "_ plan on jumping/skydiving off the tower," because as mentioned the "Space Ranger" mentality prevails in the US industrial worksite arena.

Overseas the Vertex or similar is becoming standard issue, not just for tower, arborists or heights workers, but general industrial applications, so it is not like these are only being sold to niche/low volume customers like arborists or S&R, and I'm not asking Petzl to make the cowboy hat variety, just something that is needed out there.

The chin strap add-ons to common HHs are crap, and why should there be any surprise no one uses them? A company like Petzl designs a quality helmet with great adjustment & chin strap allowing for ear muffs to be used, and also adds in clip-in attachment points, yet won't add a bill or full brim option is quite absurd. Some sites require bills or full brims for "fall from above" hazards, yet these Petzl or similar helmets go slimline on the sides, so those fall from aboves rip off your ears, etc.

After searching, to no avail, I finally just went & bought a full brim HH, intending to change out the suspension with my Vertex.... silly me, Petzl's got a 7 point attachment system, not the industry standard 4??? Uggg, rather annoying.

It's ironic, in the industry where working at heights often requires 100% tie-off (D-Ring on the back of full body harness, double deceleration lanyards), that notes falls will often hurt (and you'd get bounced around), positioning lanyards do not have standards (they are optional) that there is no chin strap requirement. Bounce around on your fall..... hmmm what happens? your standard HH falls off and you hit your noggin compounding the issue 10 fold.

it's just a frustrating scenario, that I can't comprehend... :bang:


Vertex "Sunscreen" model in full dork mode!  
View attachment 236804


"Petzl Sponsored" Space Ranger 300ft up
View attachment 236805


Space Ranger GoProing a 400ft stack climb 
View attachment 236806
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