# Sighting In the AR15 for Long Range



## Sagetown (Jan 28, 2012)

This has been eating at me, so I'm going to put it before you guys.
I was told this the other day by a young man who just built his 1st AR15, that sighting in a .223 AR-15 at 25 yards with those standard peep sights is good for 300 yards.
Now I've been shooting .223's since Vietnam, but I've never heard of that.:msp_confused:
I've sighted in with a Scope at 25 yards for getting on paper at 100 yards, then tweaking it up on the bull. It's fairly easy for me to get on at 200 yards, but 300 yards will seperate the amatures from the pros. Is what he saying true? Tell me what you think. 
Thanks Sage


----------



## derwoodii (Jan 28, 2012)

Yeah sure I can hit a barn door 223 @300 iron sight easy, but if ya wanna hit the nail holes ya gonna need a scope:jester:


----------



## Huskytree (Jan 28, 2012)

*300 yards long range?????*

I wouldn't call 300 yards long range. But if that is long range to you thats fine. 

As to [email protected] I personally have never tried it. I get my dopes for the exact yardage I am shooting. I don't find a big need to get caught up in elevation its a "Known" where I do get caught up is my windage because that is where it matters. 

Just my 2cents


----------



## Sagetown (Jan 28, 2012)

A barn door at 300 yds, now that I can see, but it's that calander hanging on the door is where the the going gets tough, and it ain't no Sunday pic-nic doing it. As Huskytree said it windage, and windage begins to really work on a .223 round once it passes 150 yards. At 200 yards I notice a difference in pattern, and beyond that, breathing, windage, and just plain nerves can throw you off bigtime. So how can a zero'd in 25 yarder get you on paper at 300 yards? Don't make sense to me yet!


----------



## Huskytree (Jan 28, 2012)

*I would say it is BS*

a 62gr Bullet with a BC of .287 going 3100fps @Muzzle 100 yard zero, 200 yards I am losing -3.12 drop, 300 yards -12.19 drop. So you tell me what you come up with @ 25 yards.


----------



## adam32 (Jan 28, 2012)

What bullet and MV? Find that out, plug it into a ballistics calculator and viola...you'll know the correct drop. My LR rigs are "zeroed" at 300


----------



## Sagetown (Jan 28, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> If my BC is .280 @ 3100fps zeroed at 100yards, my 200yard would be 1.56, and my 300yard would be 4.06. :bang:



Quote: ~ On my ballistic calculator an M16A2 zeroed at 25yds will be 8.4 inches high at 300yds so you would 
certainly be on paper. The initial intersection for 300yds is 36yds so if a 300yd zero is what you desire 
shoot poi/poa at 36 then move to 300. 

Learn something every day.


----------



## Sagetown (Jan 29, 2012)

Well; I don't know what happend to my text, but I just got this email telling me some sobering news. 
Here's what it said.
Quote: ~ On my ballistic calculator an M16A2 zeroed at 25yds will be 8.4 inches high at 300yds so you would 
certainly be on paper. The initial intersection for 300yds is 36yds so if a 300yd zero is what you desire 
shoot poi/poa at 36 then move to 300.


----------



## adam32 (Jan 29, 2012)

Sagetown said:


> Quote: ~ On my ballistic calculator an M16A2 zeroed at 25yds will be 8.4 inches high at 300yds so you would
> certainly be on paper. The initial intersection for 300yds is 36yds so if a 300yd zero is what you desire
> shoot poi/poa at 36 then move to 300.
> 
> Learn something every day.



Black Hills 60gr V-Max with a 25 yrd zero...Nightforce ballistics program.

Sight Adjustments Needed Trajectory Values 1 MPH 
RANGE	Elevation	Windage	Tgt Lead	Elevation	Wind Drift	Tgt Lead	Velocity	Energy
(yd)	MOA	MOA	MOA	(in)	(in)	(in)	(fps)	(ft-lb)
0	0.00	0.00	0.00	-1.5	0.0	0.0	3100	1280
50	-2.50	0.50	1.75	1.3	-0.3	0.9	2906	1125
100	-2.75	1.00	1.75	3.0	-1.1	1.8	2721	986
150	-2.25	1.75	1.75	3.6	-2.7	2.8	2543	861
200	-1.25	2.25	1.75	2.8	-4.9	3.9	2372	749
250	-0.25	3.00	2.00	0.4	-7.9	5.1	2207	649
300	1.25	3.75	2.00	-3.7	-11.8	6.3	2050	560


----------



## dingeryote (Jan 29, 2012)

All things considered, what the kid is doing is a LFT BZO, which IF he was at 35yds, would coincide with an approx. 300M BZO on the M16A2 Iron sights. 

Meaning he would be "on" the Baker target at 300m and able to make refinements.

Placing the line of departure at 25yds would have him shooting high at 300, unless it is a M4 with an F marked front sight base which is a whole 'nuther bag of nails.

Uncle sam actually prints targets for this sort of thing, to allow recruits to "Get on paper", and save ammo on the KD range.

If the Kid slips the A2 elevation wheel to allow for 8/3 -2 clicks and one more before bottom, and then zeros at 8/3-3 @100 he should be very close (+ or- 1 click on the Front) at 300 IF it is a Mil-spec A2. 

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## Huskytree (Jan 29, 2012)

*Very close figures to yours adam32*

Sagetown disregaurd my first post as it is late and I was crossing up numbers. Edited post to the correct figures which are very close to Adam32's. My bullet is a 62gr TSX over 25.5gr TAC.


----------



## Sagetown (Jan 29, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> Sagetown disregaurd my first post as it is late and I was crossing up numbers. Edited post to the correct figures which are very close to Adam32's. My bullet is a 62gr TSX over 25.5gr TAC.



No problem Husky: Y'all are posting some good stuff here, and I'm learning. 
Still getting more email on it too, and from what I'm reading the kid may have been on spot except he said 25 yards, and may have meant to say 25 meters, as 25meters conisides with 300 yards POA according to what is coming in.


----------



## Sagetown (Jan 29, 2012)

adam32 said:


> Black Hills 60gr V-Max with a 25 yrd zero...Nightforce ballistics program.
> 
> Sight Adjustments Needed Trajectory Values 1 MPH
> RANGE	Elevation	Windage	Tgt Lead	Elevation	Wind Drift	Tgt Lead	Velocity	Energy
> ...



Very good. And I'm assuming that changes in bullet weight and barrel lenghts have a great impact on those figures as well.


----------



## Huskytree (Jan 29, 2012)

*Yes*

Bullet weight, BC, Powder charge, and barrel lenght will all make a difference.


----------



## Huskytree (Jan 29, 2012)

*Don't forget*

The 5.62 has a higher pressure rating then that of the .223Rem. Some people will argue they are interchangeable. THEY ARE NOT! A 5.62 chamber can handle the .223Rem, but I would not try my luck with 5.62 out of a .223Rem chamber.


----------



## little possum (Jan 29, 2012)

opcorn: Way over my head. Trying to learn this Black Rifle Disease though


----------



## adam32 (Jan 29, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> Bullet weight, BC, Powder charge, and barrel lenght will all make a difference.



Well, technically barrel length won't make any difference as long as the MV is the same... :msp_tongue:


----------



## lone wolf (Jan 29, 2012)

[video=youtube;j5QCGWYfHWk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5QCGWYfHWk[/video]


----------



## hanniedog (Jan 29, 2012)

In my youth I shot many a woodchuck with a Rem 700BDL Varmint Special in 222. When going over 200yds there was considerable use of windage and elevation. 300yds is 22-250 territory my brothers 22-250 would flat out shread a chuck at that distance.


----------



## Huskytree (Jan 29, 2012)

*And I thought we were talking about AR platforms*



hanniedog said:


> In my youth I shot many a woodchuck with a Rem 700BDL Varmint Special in 222. When going over 200yds there was considerable use of windage and elevation. 300yds is 22-250 territory my brothers 22-250 would flat out shread a chuck at that distance.



All this time and I thought we were talking about the 5.62/.223rem on an AR platform.

By the way the triple duece has no problems killing woodchucks at 300 yards.


----------



## hanniedog (Jan 29, 2012)

Was commenting about the 222 round which is not much different than a 223. Sorry for my intrusion.


----------



## Genius. (Jan 29, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> The 5.62 has a higher pressure rating then that of the .223Rem. Some people will argue they are interchangeable. THEY ARE NOT! A 5.62 chamber can handle the .223Rem, but I would not try my luck with 5.62 out of a .223Rem chamber.





Huskytree said:


> All this time and I thought we were talking about the 5.62/.223rem on an AR platform.
> 
> By the way the triple duece has no problems killing woodchucks at 300 yards.




BTW it's 5.56 not 5.62

To the op, if you want to learn more about getting zero'd at 25m and 300m pick up a copy of Kyle Lamb's book Green Eyes and Black Rifles. He goes into depth about it and the trajectorys.


----------



## Huskytree (Jan 29, 2012)

*Good catch*

What the hell was I thinking???? My mistake.


----------



## derwoodii (Jan 29, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> What the hell was I thinking???? My mistake.



perhaps ya mind twas with the 7.62×51mm NATO:msp_sneaky:


----------



## mels (Jan 31, 2012)

derwoodii said:


> perhaps ya mind twas with the 7.62×51mm nato:msp_sneaky:



aka .308 win


----------

