# should I climb and cut?



## gwiley (Jan 20, 2010)

I have been tempted to try climbing out but frankly it scares me, not so much the whole "dangling from ropes thing" but more the "wielding a chainsaw with nowhere to run thing".

It just looks crazy dangerous to be blocking down a tree - if it goes badly all you can do is just ride it out. Sure looks as though climber/cutters often need to use a saw in ways that I simply wouldn't do on the ground.

What advice do you guys have for a marginally fit 40 year old who really enjoys tree work but doesn't have to make a living doing it? Is it crazy to experiment with climbing or am I just asking the life insurance company to deliver a check to my wife?

Is climbing/cutting fairly safe for the careful practitioner or is it as crazy as it looks?


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## deevo (Jan 20, 2010)

gwiley said:


> I have been tempted to try climbing out but frankly it scares me, not so much the whole "dangling from ropes thing" but more the "wielding a chainsaw with nowhere to run thing".
> 
> It just looks crazy dangerous to be blocking down a tree - if it goes badly all you can do is just ride it out. Sure looks as though climber/cutters often need to use a saw in ways that I simply wouldn't do on the ground.
> 
> ...


If you get trained by someone who knows what they are doing and have been doing it along time you will love it, start off doing small simple removals then as you progress and get more comfortable it'll be just like riding a bike. I've only been climbing for 5 years, once you start you'll get hooked and that's all you'll want to do! Go for it! I was lucky and got my training paid for, some self taught and learn something new from each job. If you do things right and have all the right gear/equipment you'll overcome that fear.


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## mndlawn (Jan 20, 2010)

deevo said:


> once you start you'll get hooked and that's all you'll want to do!



Isn't that the truth.


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## pdqdl (Jan 20, 2010)

gwiley said:


> I have been tempted to try climbing out but frankly it scares me, not so much the whole "dangling from ropes thing" but more the "wielding a chainsaw with nowhere to run thing". *If you think that you would not be safe with a chainsaw in a tree, you are probably right.*
> 
> It just looks crazy dangerous to be blocking down a tree - if it goes badly all you can do is just ride it out. Sure looks as though climber/cutters often need to use a saw in ways that I simply wouldn't do on the ground. *Yes.*
> 
> ...



Consider doing some recreational climbing to see if you like it, and whether you are as fit as you believe. You should be able to find lots of folks to help with that.

Graduate to pruning with a handsaw. Very little risk there.

Spend more time on the ground with a chainsaw. It sounds like you are uncomfortable working around them, and that is probably due to a lack of experience or fortitude. The wrong place to acquire that experience is 40' up a tree.

Most people will tell you to find a professional to learn from, but most professionals won't give you the time of day. Why train the competition?

Study !


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## gwiley (Jan 20, 2010)

I was thinking that if I tried climbing it would be another one of those teach youself adventures that I tend to go on. I like the idea of getting used to climbing before trying to wield a chainsaw while "in harness" - the thing is I'd rather not even go that route if ultimately I don't get to the point where I can do it safely. Climbing gear looks expensive.

On a toughness scale of 1-10 (1 = a game of chess, 10 = arm wrestling a polar bear for a raw herring) where does climbing rank?

Do you see a lot of guys stopping climbing after 40? Do you see many folks picking it up after 40?


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## Bermie (Jan 20, 2010)

Hey man, I'm a girl and I climb and cut...tough...depends how you approach it! (and I'm not a 'tough' girl if you know what I mean...)

It is hard work, but being properly trained makes it easier, check the recreational climbing forum here, see if there is anyone near you who will take you on a 'taster' climb, get used to the whole concept.

I picked it up...how shall I say...'later in life...' if you are fit to start with, you'll get used to it...it does use a whole different set of muscle groups!


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## pdqdl (Jan 20, 2010)

Tree work is somewhat less dangerous than mountain climbing. Eliminate the high altitude & winter problems and it is probably pretty close to the same as rock climbing if you were to add a chainsaw.

Perhaps some of the rock climbers will chime in?


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## sawinredneck (Jan 20, 2010)

I'll do what I can to help you, but I am going to do everything I can to discourage you at first. It's hard to learn, but ten times harder on your own. You can never be sure your knots are right until you are on them. Slow and low, get settled in a couple of feet off the ground, learn how to hip thrust and footlock as quick as you can as correctly as you can.
The gear is very expensive, plan on at least $300 for low end gear, read up on ropes and see what sounds like it will work best for you. You will be doing natural crotches so keep that in mind.
Get a throw bag and line right off the bat, you have no idea how much frustration this will save you!
On your scale, doing this alone, you are around a 15 or 20, really, it uses muscles you never knew you had and you will be doing things differently than you are used to because of the ropes dictate a lot of what you do. So you have to learn to use the ropes and lanyards, re-learning how to climb a tree and trying not to crap your pants out of fear and an over whelming amount of information to try and proccess!
I learned this way and I DO NOT recomend it, but it can be done.


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## oldirty (Jan 20, 2010)

rock climbing is stupid. why climb the rock, just to say you can? you are not going to do anything with the rock. no monetary profit in it.

if you want to be a thrill seeker then get paid to do it. rock climbing....c'mon.

anyway gwiley. the game of tree is simple in itself, really. but its the little things that matter. every little bit of what you got goes into climbing a tree.

on a 1 to 10 scale you ask? 

well to a new guy just getting into it they are all 10's and you can only hope your rope holds and that whoever got you in the tree in the first place knows what they are talking about. because fear has new meaning to you.

now after some years of experience the scale can run 5-10 depending on the work order. i'll call it a 5 being easy just because you are already leaving the ground so thats danger anyway.

is it hard to run a saw in the tree? why yes it is. how many times have you just awkwardly reach out and cut something on the ground cause you were too lazy to step over the log? you cant do that in the tree unless you really really want to get hurt. wood swings funny if you dont know how to cut it. anyway so you must put yourself in a position to work best from. and sometime this requires multiple tie in points while doing a tree forced yoga pose. 

now picture all this with the wind blowing. lol. tree is swaying all around and sometimes a gust will pinch your cut at the wrong time. who knows then. 

you must have faith in what you've been taught and the knowledge you've earned. and even after all that nothing is guaranteed. who says the TIP you've chosen to hang it all on the line was the right one?

do i recommend a 40 yr old who with zero formal training run a saw in a tree? no. vehemently no. and stay off the damn ladder too.

but please let me tell you this. of all the trades a person can have this is the one that weeds out the men from the boys.

there really is no better rush than making it happen in the tree. you must have great respect for what you are doing as well my fellow climbers. we are mere mortals yes, but we do what not many other men could. that is what separates us from them. we are better than them, those on the ground.


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## gwiley (Jan 20, 2010)

sawinredneck said:


> I'll do what I can to help you, but I am going to do everything I can to discourage you at first. It's hard to learn, but ten times harder on your own. You can never be sure your knots are right until you are on them. Slow and low, get settled in a couple of feet off the ground, learn how to hip thrust and footlock as quick as you can as correctly as you can.
> The gear is very expensive, plan on at least $300 for low end gear, read up on ropes and see what sounds like it will work best for you. You will be doing natural crotches so keep that in mind.
> Get a throw bag and line right off the bat, you have no idea how much frustration this will save you!
> On your scale, doing this alone, you are around a 15 or 20, really, it uses muscles you never knew you had and you will be doing things differently than you are used to because of the ropes dictate a lot of what you do. So you have to learn to use the ropes and lanyards, re-learning how to climb a tree and trying not to crap your pants out of fear and an over whelming amount of information to try and proccess!
> I learned this way and I DO NOT recomend it, but it can be done.



Thanks - sounds like a good reality check. My goal is to be able to bring trees down in places where there is insufficient space to drop them conventionally. I suspect that if I can't use spikes then I wouldn't be in the tree anyway. Does that simplify the situation much?

I looked at recreational climbing resources, but folks don't use spikes on trees that they don't intend to kill so I am thinking that there is a lot going on in that space that I just don't need to bother with.

Anyone near Goochland Virginia interested in sharing some climbing wisdom?


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## Fireaxman (Jan 20, 2010)

gwiley said:


> ...Do you see a lot of guys stopping climbing after 40? Do you see many folks picking it up after 40?



I was 50 when I first started fooling with it. Had quadruple bypass open heart surgery at nearly 60 and got back up in the trees 14 weeks later (would have made it in 12 weeks but had some bad weather problems). I like it. It would be hard to quit. Like somebody else on the site (I cant remember who said it, but it stuck) it takes me a little longer to get up the tree, but I can came down as fast as anyone.

You got some good advice here from others. I'll echo. 

1. Start as a rec climber on ropes with a Silky doing light pruning. The time wont be wasted. If you go on to removals on spikes you can still have some great fun pruning, and what you will learn about rope will help you in rigging your removals. SRT also makes a great backup for your spikes; lets you bail out (get down in a hurry) if something goes wrong. Pruning and removing dead wood will also teach you a lot about making your cuts, how things fall, rigging, and working at height. Graduate to spikes and removals only when you are comfortable. 

2. Get some help from a pro. If you hear a chain saw running in your neighborhood, go see whats going on. I was first coached by a retired professional, but every time I get an opportunity to watch somebody else work I take it. Many professionals are confident of their ability and dont feel threatened by a newby. Many will offer good advice for the cost of lunch or a couple of beers after work.

Risk? Full size removals like piecing down 100 foot Loblollies with a chain saw? Very high, especially if you try to do it on your own and move too fast. Get some help and I'ld give it about an 8 on your scale. Without help I think you are going for the raw herring, .


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 21, 2010)

Tough one to call, I started climbing at 16 on weekends, loved it. Climbed for 28 years before I went management. I think it would be pretty dang demanding at 40 or more. Great question by the way.
Jeff


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## woodlotguy (Jan 21, 2010)

I started climbing at 39.I would recomend some sort of training.As well there is an abundance of training material available on CD's and in print.I had a fire service background,and have ran a saw most of my life.As previously stated start low and slow and progress as your skill level and confidence increase.My advice is know your limitations and stay with in them.


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## Goose IBEW (Jan 21, 2010)

*You should climb and cut!!*

I am 36 years old, close to being in your boat. I got a Homelite super 2 when I was 12 and trees, firewood and such have been a part of my life ever since. Last year, a co-worker offered to buy me a climbing set in exchange for taking down trees in his yard. Spikes, harness, ropes and such in very good condition. I climbed and topped four trees that day and yes, was very sore that night. I have more questions than answers but I joined this site to learn more. I got a figure eight for descending, climbing down seemed to be harder than climbing up. I haven't got the gumption to try it yet though. Topping a tree is probably in the top 3 things I have done as far as an adrenaline rush goes, its a ride in itself. One thing for sure, the first climb will take as much energy out of you as the next three combined. KNOW YOUR KNOTS!!!! I grew up on the water, ropes and knots are second nature to me, very important. Good luck, your not the only novice out there.


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 21, 2010)

Don't be afraid to rec climb, you'll learn a hell of a lot more about your ropes and knots in that aspect then you will on spikes. Not to mention learning how to trust your equipment. Too many climbers rely far to heavily on that steel strapped to their legs. Learn how to move on your ropes, up, down, sideways, inverted, vertical, horizontal, etc. Once you feel comfortable in any position you can physically put yourself on the rope then you can consider bringing in a pair of spikes or a chainsaw.


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## pdqdl (Jan 21, 2010)

The use of that "topping" expression is pretty dangerous around here. Be careful, it leads to negative comments and unfriendly "smiley-faces" like this: 

In case you were not aware of it, topping is not considered good arboriculture, and many of the patrons of this site have real issues on the topic.


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## STIHLMAN83 (Jan 21, 2010)

I would start off with rec climbs, maybe with someone you know that already climbs. Get used to the equipment, moving around in the trees, knots, etc. I would also buy the tree clmners companion. It is only a book and does not make you a pro over night but there is some helpful hints and good information in it. Hope this helps out some.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 21, 2010)

Rec climbing is a great way to get comfortable with your ropes and all but if your going to be doing removals you will most likely be using gaffs. All the rec climbing in the world wont make you more comfy standing in gaffs and a lanyard. Gaffs and a TIP with climb line yes (which in my opinion is the safest when possible) but there will come a time your going to be standing on gaffs and lanyard/flipline only. So my advice find someone with sufficient knowledge to give you safe useful instructions and go for it. If you hook up with someone decent they may let you horse around a few times on gaffs with a tree they are about to remove. Once you get comfortable and safe you can move to maybe doing some handsaw work on a removal then when your are comfy with that move up to using a chainsaw. Its a long slow progression and skipping steps can result in someone getting hurt.


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## rbtree (Jan 22, 2010)

oldirty said:


> rock climbing is stupid. /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Try telling that to a rock climber...and prepare to be laughed at, and ignored.
> ...


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## rmihalek (Jan 22, 2010)

I started out rec climbing. I did this for two years and only occasionally did I have a hand saw with me to remove dead wood. You can't just rely on spikes and a lanyard because there will be times you need to limb walk for rigging or pruning and with spikes you are secured (typically) to the main stem of the tree and can't go out on a limb.


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## Toddppm (Jan 22, 2010)

Climbing is the easier part, once you start actually working pruning or removing a tree it adds a lot more physically. 
Go on some rec. climbs and see how far you can limb walk and if you like it. Most trees to be removed in urban areas can't be done by standing in a crotch close to the trunk and just cutting branches off. Takes alot of energy to set up the rigging, getting in funky positions while cutting and blocking down trunks etc., is pretty fun and an adrenaline rush.


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## outofmytree (Jan 22, 2010)

gwiley said:


> I was thinking that if I tried climbing it would be another one of those teach youself adventures that I tend to go on. I like the idea of getting used to climbing before trying to wield a chainsaw while "in harness" - the thing is I'd rather not even go that route if ultimately I don't get to the point where I can do it safely. Climbing gear looks expensive.
> 
> On a toughness scale of 1-10 (1 = a game of chess, 10 = arm wrestling a polar bear for a raw herring) where does climbing rank?
> 
> Do you see a lot of guys stopping climbing after 40? Do you see many folks picking it up after 40?



I have climbed on and off for many years but only started getting paid for it when I turnd 40. I turn 44 shortly and I live, eat and breathe climbing. Don't use age or fitness as an excuse, get up that tree!

Been a lot of good advice so far. I can only add that for most people, 1 on 1 training is the fastest and safest way to learn any physical activity. Learn to climb, learn to prune with a handsaw, then learn to use a chainsaw.

Oh and once you climb something decent with a view for miles, that bear will take one look at you and meekly offer you the herring before bolting for the water at top speed.


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## outonalimbts (Jan 22, 2010)

*Starting at 40, Once you get up there, you will wonder why you waited so long!*



oldirty said:


> because fear has new meaning to you.
> 
> .... you must put yourself in a position to work best from. and sometime this requires multiple tie in points while doing a tree forced yoga pose.
> 
> ...



All of the posts that I read, seem to be right on- You MUST I mean:
YOU MUST learn from the ground first!

Climbing is dangerous- No matter who you are, no matter how good you think you may be, the bottom line is that climbing is DANGEROUS! Now add in the tree- Age isn't really the question- But the forces that have been acting on it are- When climbing you must choose wisely- you must learn what to look for in the trees canopy, around the base of the tree, on other trees around it, etc. Rock climbing is fun- it too is dangerous, but in a different way, and you would be totally stupid to try to run a chainsaw on the side of a rock...

You should obtain the book by Jeff Jepson, Tree Climbers Guide 2nd Edition, Learn to tie all the knots by heart before you begin to climb. Once you begin to climb, don't worry about any other equipment operations until you are comfortable while aloft- When training a new climber a chainsaw is one of the last items they train with in a tree- Same with climbing spikes- You must know how to move around in any tree without spikes first.

Your Just down the road you should contact me if you want to learn, I can show you the "ropes" so to speak- I have many places to practice climbing.

Be careful it's dangerous out there!

:chainsawguy:


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## oldirty (Jan 22, 2010)

rbtree said:


> Try telling that to a rock climber...and prepare to be laughed at, and ignored.



well to be dead honest rog. i could give a rats ass about what anyone thinks or who they chose to ignore. let alone some mutt clinging to a rock not too far from death doing it for no other reason than it being a good time.

i bet smoking crack is a good time too but i ain't gonna be doing that anytime soon either.

fool's game, rock climbing.


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 22, 2010)

oldirty said:


> well to be dead honest rog. i could give a rats ass about what anyone thinks or who they chose to ignore. let alone some mutt clinging to a rock not too far from death doing it for no other reason than it being a good time.
> 
> i bet smoking crack is a good time too but i ain't gonna be doing that anytime soon either.
> 
> fool's game, rock climbing.



lmfao, woooooooooooooooooo! :agree2:


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## EdenT (Jan 23, 2010)

oldirty said:


> i bet smoking crack is a good time too but i ain't gonna be doing that anytime soon either.
> 
> fool's game, rock climbing.



I thought they were the same thing.

1. Both involve rock.
2. Both involve getting high.
3. Both are ludicrously expensive.
4. Both will get you killed if you lose your grip.


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## rarefish383 (Jan 23, 2010)

G' where's Goochland? I'm in the DC metro area and I have a farm in Hardy County WV. Right next to Lost River State Park. You would be welcome to spend a week end this spring or summer. I'm planning on building a cabin and will be cutting a bunch of pines for logs. I have a couple biggish Oaks to remove in the build area. They're healthy trees with no hazard issues. I'd just throw them, but they are good easy climbs with nice crotches, good learners.

I've been climbing for the best part of 40 years. Not including the time my Mom found me up a tree with her serrated butcher knife trying to cut a limb over my rabbits hutch, when I was 5.

Here's a pic of where I'm building my cabin, If you're interested shoot me a PM, Joe.


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## mr. holden wood (Jan 23, 2010)

oldirty said:


> well to be dead honest rog. i could give a rats ass about what anyone thinks or who they chose to ignore. let alone some mutt clinging to a rock not too far from death doing it for no other reason than it being a good time.
> 
> i bet smoking crack is a good time too but i ain't gonna be doing that anytime soon either.
> 
> fool's game, rock climbing.



I have never met a crack head rock climber but have come across several crack heads doing tree work. Any activity that pushes the mind and body to it's limit earns my respect. Personally the most rewading moments in life have come without a paycheck.


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## outofmytree (Jan 23, 2010)

rarefish383 said:


> G' where's Goochland? I'm in the DC metro area and I have a farm in Hardy County WV. Right next to Lost River State Park. You would be welcome to spend a week end this spring or summer. I'm planning on building a cabin and will be cutting a bunch of pines for logs. I have a couple biggish Oaks to remove in the build area. They're healthy trees with no hazard issues. I'd just throw them, but they are good easy climbs with nice crotches, good learners.
> 
> I've been climbing for the best part of 40 years. Not including the time my Mom found me up a tree with her serrated butcher knife trying to cut a limb over my rabbits hutch, when I was 5.
> 
> Here's a pic of where I'm building my cabin, If you're interested shoot me a PM, Joe.




Sounds like fun.

I live here.






So you are paying my ticket over right!?!?!?!


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## rarefish383 (Jan 23, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Sounds like fun.
> 
> I live here.
> 
> ...



Sure, as long as you catch me on the return flight. Funny thing is, I know right where Perth is. I still don't know where Goochland is and it's only one state over, somewhere, Joe.


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 23, 2010)

I was in Perth in 1980, very nice place. OOMT, do you surf? Man, I agree you live in a great place. 
Jeff


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## Pruning Artist (Jan 23, 2010)

*Dead honest !!!!*



oldirty said:


> well to be dead honest rog. i could give a rats ass about what anyone thinks or who they chose to ignore. let alone some mutt clinging to a rock not too far from death doing it for no other reason than it being a good time.
> 
> i bet smoking crack is a good time too but i ain't gonna be doing that anytime soon either.
> 
> fool's game, rock climbing.



Honestly , please . Any of you getting RICH out there !! This is a good honest living but there are easier ways to do that . I know I do it for the rush just like you do ! Rock climbing looks dumb to me but you gota admit it would be quite a rush . 
I've been climbing trees since a kid . Just incorperated the use of ropes & safety gear ( and a chain saw ) for a buck 6 yrs ago at 40 yrs OLD .


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## gwiley (Jan 30, 2010)

rarefish383 said:


> G' where's Goochland? I'm in the DC metro area and I have a farm in Hardy County WV. Right next to Lost River State Park. You would be welcome to spend a week end this spring or summer. I'm planning on building a cabin and will be cutting a bunch of pines for logs. I have a couple biggish Oaks to remove in the build area. They're healthy trees with no hazard issues. I'd just throw them, but they are good easy climbs with nice crotches, good learners.
> 
> I've been climbing for the best part of 40 years. Not including the time my Mom found me up a tree with her serrated butcher knife trying to cut a limb over my rabbits hutch, when I was 5.
> 
> Here's a pic of where I'm building my cabin, If you're interested shoot me a PM, Joe.



Sorry for the delay in Replying - we had to travel to Wisconsin last week.

Goochland is a very rural county in central virginia half way between Richmond and Charlottesville, most of it is good old backwoods Virginia country with a few VERY rich residents to spice things up a bit. I drive 3 hours north to Dulles once a week to work for 3 days, then work the other two from home.

After reading these replies I am thinking that I need to just sit and absorb information about climbing for a while. I appreciate your offer, when I decide to take the step I'll drop you a note, it would be really good to have someone who knows what they are doing get me started.


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## tree md (Jan 30, 2010)

Personally, I'd hire someone to do the trees on your property, watch, ask questions and learn. Tree removal is not something you just want to jump into. I could see getting a rope in them and throwing them on your own but piecing one out or trying to do a technical removal on your own without the help of an expert would be foolish.

As far as climbing, go for it. As has been mentioned, start low and slow, go to town with a handsaw but leave the chainsaw on the ground and get to know your knots well.

IMO, it is always best to start out learning from someone with experience to check your knots and what have you and make sure you're not going to kill yourself. That being said, I learn new knots on my own by doing research and perfecting them on the ground before I incorporate them into my work. But I have been climbing for 20 years and I have become pretty intuitive with knots.

I started out working for a tree service and was mentored by someone. However, a lot of what I know and techniques I now use have been self taught. I am 41 and still climb everyday pretty much. I am better than I was when I was younger because I climb and work smarter now.

I contracted a 63 year old man a couple of years back. He did not start climbing until he had already retired from one career and was in is 50's. He worked for himself and even taught climbing at Job Corps for a little while. He was a very proficient climber at 63 and I would have no qualms about hiring him again or recommending him to someone else.


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## robertjinnes (Jan 30, 2010)

*Climbing up is easy. I started by climbing down-- Spelunking in PIT CAVES*

First the saw part. Get comfortable but safe with your saw. Work on the ground, know what you and your saw can do. Build safe confidence. Then and only then should you take a power saw in the air. Until then, become amazed at what you can do with a quality hand saw.

I don't have specific recommendations but please find literature on the subject of chainsaw safety, specifically on ladders and in trees. These are written because "accidents" have occurred.

Now the rope and spike part of it. Same deal. Get comfortable. You should be able to do anything in the tree you typically do on the ground. Personnally, I started on Ropes recreational climbing, using prusik knots on foot slings and chest harness while rope was fed out we climbed it. After becoming accustomed to that, it was rappelling into pit caves in south central Indiana. The first one was 185 ft and there was one way out so you needed to know that you could go well beyond 185 ft up before you went down. That was 35 years ago. Now I'm 60 and spike trees as needed.

Always stay in your comfort zone. If something makes you break into a cold sweat or get a sudden easiness, back on the ground, study what and how, improve on your technique or equipment and repeat. Make sure your equipment is your equipment. It's your life so be sure your spikes fit, harnesses etc are all in good condition and above all else have FUN.


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## rarefish383 (Feb 1, 2010)

tree md said:


> Personally, I'd hire someone to do the trees on your property, watch, ask questions and learn. Tree removal is not something you just want to jump into. I could see getting a rope in them and throwing them on your own but piecing one out or trying to do a technical removal on your own without the help of an expert would be foolish.
> 
> Tree MD, If you were refering to my offer to Gwilly to visit the cabin and practice on some of my big Oaks I'm taking down, sorry for the confusion. I'm 4th generation of licensed MD tree experts retired, and my cousin who owns the farm next to mine is 4th gen retired also. His brother in law has taken over his business and hangs out with us on the farm. So, my invite was to surround him with knowledge and expertise. If I missed something, no ofense taken, just wanted to clarify, Joe.


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## tree md (Feb 1, 2010)

rarefish383 said:


> tree md said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I'd hire someone to do the trees on your property, watch, ask questions and learn. Tree removal is not something you just want to jump into. I could see getting a rope in them and throwing them on your own but piecing one out or trying to do a technical removal on your own without the help of an expert would be foolish.
> ...


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## rarefish383 (Feb 2, 2010)

:agree2: Some people will cringe when you tell them to start with a hand saw. I remember as a kid my Dad would limb out whole trees with a hand saw. The only chain saws we had were a couple big Disston 2 man saws and a bunch of big Macs. I still have a 42 inch hand saw hanging in the family room that Dad used up trees. That will help build that upper body strength that comes in handy when climbing. Also, very often you wind up with your chainsaw running between you and your ropes, a misshap can come very fast, Joe.


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## EdenT (Feb 2, 2010)

:agree2: The other thing people forget to tell you is that it is a lot more pleasant cutting trees with a handsaw than a chainsaw. For me a chainsaw put's me into 100% work mode and sometimes I find myself at the bottom of the tree (having cut it down), without even having enjoyed the view. When I am hand sawing I tend to look around more and enjoy the climb more. You also can worry a lot less about over cuts or accidentally injuring a tree you are pruning. For a learner climber a chainsaw is a lot more stress. You know when a chainsaw is being a pain to start on the ground. Now imagine that in a tree when every pull of the cord makes your whole world sway like crazy. It also means you can dress lighter - no chaps. When I learned climbing I didn't really know about handsaws, wish I had. Now I even use my zubat for most of my ground cutting. Handsaws are 'da bomb'


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## rarefish383 (Feb 2, 2010)

Here's a picture of the hand saw my Dad used to use to limb out trees. It had a leather thong on it and I added the buddy handle, Joe.


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