# Suggested firewoods - are there any woods that one should NEVER use for firewood?



## cwatkin (Nov 20, 2011)

I recently moved to the country and plan to burn wood for the majority of my heating needs. I live in the Ozarks of Missouri so there are a lot of good hardwood trees available. This year, I bought a place with some fired wood included but don't feel this will be enough for the entire winter. I have been cutting standing deads and blowdowns from my property and it seems that some of the standing deads don't take more than a month of so to cure nicely. I was wondering if there are any trees I should just avoid at all costs as well as trees that make good firewood, especially of one doesn't have a ton of time to wait for them to cure. I have compiled a list of stuff I find commonly available.

1. Red oak - seems like a great wood when cured but takes a while to cure. As for something that is common around here, I think this is one of the best.

2. White oak - seems good but I prefer red oak. I know a few people who like this while others say it is just junk wood. If I had my choice, there are other better woods, but what if it is good and plentiful?

3. Black oak - this seems to rate somewhere between red and white oak from my burning experience

4. Elm - standing deads with no bark are great for hot but quick heat after being stacked and cured for a short time. Anything not well cured is not worth trying to burn and will not give any heat and just smoke/burn very slowly.

5. Hickory - great wood but takes a while to cure

6. Black walnut - I know this is supposed to be valuable but is it worth trying to sell for just one or two trees? I just cutup a nice one that had blown over but how would I go about selling it for lumber? Again, this one looks like it will take a while to cure.

7. Persimmon - I have a friend who is clearing fields and gave me a bunch of this. I understand it takes a while to cure but it EXCEPTIONAL firewood once dry.

8. Boxelder - This seems like a junk tree to me but it appears to cure quick and provide hot but very quick heat. I recently got some of this from the same guy clearing fields and took it just to be nice. He gave me LOTS of other very good wood such as oaks, hickory, persimmon, etc. and I know that me taking this sames him time and effort.

9. Silver maple - this seems to be one of the big three for falling or losing limbs in wind, snow, ice, etc. It is junk wood from an ugly junk tree but I have taken some to be nice and it does burn hot but quick after curing.

10. Bradford Pear (and similar) - These are another tree that is lousy for holding up long term and is another of the big three for falling over/breaking around here. Again this isn't one I would choose and I understand these have now been classified as a non-native noxious/invasive weed by several agencies.

11. River birch - Why do people even bother planting these? These are right up there with Bradford Pears for breaking under any load and are probably the top of the big three for falling down in wind or anything else.

12. Cedar - I don't really like burning this but there are tons of these on my property and a bunch that have been piled up during the clearing of a powerline. I kinda want to get rid of these as a view all this downed wood as a fire hazard but know it isn't the best to burn. I have burned some that is well cured and it burns quick and hot but the overall BTU content is like 1/3 of a decent hardwood. I like mixing a bit of this in my woodpile as it seems to keep a lot of bugs and critters from taking up residence in my woodpile but hate thinking that all that space being taken up by cedar has 1/3 the energy of some other wood that is plentiful around here. The hot burning nature of this makes it useful when starting a fire.

13. Black locust - I have a little of this on my property including some that was down already. I cut and stacked this but burned a rotten piece. Even the rotten pieces burned very well and put out lots of heat. This was spongy, punky wood and I would have thrown it off into the woods had it not been dry. I figured why not if it was there and I just wanted to get rid of it.

I have TONS of downed cedar on my property and want to get rid of some to prevent a big fire hazard. There are also good hardwoods in this pile and I am working on getting them cut. How should one handle the cedars? Just cut a little at a time and mix it in/use it to start fires???

Are there any woods one should just avoid no matter how easy they are to obtain? The boxelder I took didn't really cost me and extra trip to the location with my truck but I was wondering if this is even worth my time. What woods are good for quick curing firewood, even if they aren't absolutely ideal? I kinda need some quick curing wood (2-3 months) for this winter and then I can plan better for next winter. I am going to use a bunch of the trees that have been pushed over for the powerline as many of them are suspended and partly seasoned already. There are a LOT of cedars and I don't know what to do with those but do want to get rid of them due to the fire hazard associated with all of these.


Thanks,

Conor


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## dancan (Nov 20, 2011)

I would avoid any painted , pressure treated or creosote treated firewood , anything else is fair game .


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## KsWoodsMan (Nov 20, 2011)

NEVER burn treated wood, painted/varnished wood or OSB. 

Burning poison Ivy vines should be avoided without compromise. 

Green wood is a compromise but not suggested unless there isn't a drier alternative.

You should be good with what you have listed. Dead standing (shedding bark) is what I suggest going after when running low. The bottom 6-10 feet might still be to wet initially but above that expect it to be bone dry and ready for immediate use.

EDIT:If you aren't short of heating wood , hold back some of the persimmon and pear to go along with your hickory for the grill. I like them for chicken and beef. 

But then when you are cold the smoking/grill wood is fair game too


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## cwatkin (Nov 20, 2011)

Yeah, I don't burn any pressure treated stuff but will burn kiln dried lumber scraps as kindling. I have also been known to pick up pallets at the lumberyard as they set them out back for free. These can be cut up into nice pieces that make good kindling. Since there is a lot of open space, I tend to get these as needed and don't want to store a lot of them. I do find that using these as bases to stack firewood works well. When that stack of wood is gone, I generally burn that pallet in a brush pile and replace it with a fresh one as they only last so long.

Thanks,

Conor


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## dancan (Nov 20, 2011)

KsWoodsMan said:


> Burning poison Ivy vines should be avoided without compromise.
> 
> .



Good reminder !


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## KsWoodsMan (Nov 20, 2011)

After mentioning cooking over wood ,I keep thinking there are a few that aren't good in the campfire or cook fire. 

It might not be , but Adler and eucalyptus keeps coming to mind not to use it for cooking over. Not that I know of any that grows in this area. 

None of those 12 you listed should let you freeze to death this winter. If all I had was the worst on your list, cedar and Box Elder, I'd be set , Just takes more of it and more trips than your Hickory, Black Locust or White/RedOak.


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## Misfit138 (Nov 20, 2011)

cwatkin said:


> ....
> 1. Red oak - seems like a great wood when cured but takes a while to cure. As for something that is common around here, I think this is one of the best.
> 
> 2. White oak - seems good but I prefer red oak. I know a few people who like this while others say it is just junk wood. If I had my choice, there are other better woods, but what if it is good and plentiful?
> ...



Who calls White Oak junk wood? Whoever told you that simply doesn't know his wood. Red, White and Black Oak are all excellent, but take a long time to seasoned. When they are dry and seasoned, I can't tell the difference between 'em; they all burn great and leave barely any ash. When I burn Oak I rarely have to clean out ashes at all.


> 4. Elm - standing deads with no bark are great for hot but quick heat after being stacked and cured for a short time. Anything not well cured is not worth trying to burn and will not give any heat and just smoke/burn very slowly.


I have almost no experience with Elm, but again, the key is having dry, seasoned wood.


> 5. Hickory - great wood but takes a while to cure


That's a fact.


> 6. Black walnut - I know this is supposed to be valuable but is it worth trying to sell for just one or two trees? I just cutup a nice one that had blown over but how would I go about selling it for lumber? Again, this one looks like it will take a while to cure.


I have no opinion on the value and desirable nature of Black Walnut for furniture- to me it is just another tree to burn.


> 7. Persimmon - I have a friend who is clearing fields and gave me a bunch of this. I understand it takes a while to cure but it EXCEPTIONAL firewood once dry.


 Excellent wood, one of the best and about even with Mulberry in my experience.



> 9. Silver maple - this seems to be one of the big three for falling or losing limbs in wind, snow, ice, etc. It is junk wood from an ugly junk tree but I have taken some to be nice and it does burn hot but quick after curing.


Most old timers around here call this a "Swamp Maple". It's one of the soft Maples, but it burns pretty good in my experience and leaves decent coals. Definitely not in the same league as Sugar Maple or the Oaks.


> 12. Cedar - I don't really like burning this but there are tons of these on my property and a bunch that have been piled up during the clearing of a powerline. I kinda want to get rid of these as a view all this downed wood as a fire hazard but know it isn't the best to burn. I have burned some that is well cured and it burns quick and hot but the overall BTU content is like 1/3 of a decent hardwood. I like mixing a bit of this in my woodpile as it seems to keep a lot of bugs and critters from taking up residence in my woodpile but hate thinking that all that space being taken up by cedar has 1/3 the energy of some other wood that is plentiful around here. The hot burning nature of this makes it useful when starting a fire.


Cedar smells good and burns fast.


> 13. Black locust - I have a little of this on my property including some that was down already. I cut and stacked this but burned a rotten piece. Even the rotten pieces burned very well and put out lots of heat. This was spongy, punky wood and I would have thrown it off into the woods had it not been dry. I figured why not if it was there and I just wanted to get rid of it.


Excellent wood in my experience. Great coals.

Conclusion: If you have dry, seasoned, premium hardwoods in plentiful supply, stick with them for your main source and supply. Having softer woods for kindling if your stove goes out is always a good idea.
Always season wood completely before burning and you will be happy with the results no matter what kind of tree it comes off of.
Enjoy!


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## unclemoustache (Nov 20, 2011)

It also depends on if you've got an OWB or an indoor stove. OWB users tend to burn pretty much any wood without too much fuss, but is wood stove people tend to be a bit more picky. I would never burn sycamore because it leaves more ash than there was wood to begin with. You'd be shoveling out your stove every 10 minutes with that junk. Others say willow is pretty nasty, but I've never burned any of it. I don't mind the soft (silver) maple in the early part of the heating season, especially since it leaves little ash and splits and dries easily. But then when it gets colder I go for the BTUs in Oak, hickory, hedge, and mulberry.


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## IHDiesel73L (Nov 20, 2011)

I try to avoid any kind of firewood that you have to pay for :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Wood Doctor (Nov 20, 2011)

*Oops!*

Bradford or Cleveland Pear? Are you kidding?

I doubt I would ever cut down this beautiful tree. Slow growing, colorful, and easy to trim:


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## 1project2many (Nov 20, 2011)

Silver Maple rots very quickly. Don't stack a pile outside in the spring and expect it to be good the following fall. Box Elder has an odor I don't like and attracts Box Elder Beetles, which I'd rather not have around. It also burns and rots quickly. I avoid Box Elder. I've had Silver Maple but I try to stack it for the beginning / end of the heating season so I can use better wood when it's colder. Avoid Willow. It never seems to dry out, and it stinks when burned. Catalpa (looks like a bean tree) is a very light wood but it's fairly dry when green. Green Catalpa has a funny smell but when dry it's not obnoxious to burn. Ash has more heat than Catalpa and is also fairly dry green. If you ever run out of wood in the winter, look for an Ash or Catalpa to take down. If you find Butternut, that's another very light wood that burns quickly and rots fast. Lots of ashes when burning Butternut. Again, avoid stacking it in the middle of the wood pile. Most of the Cedar up here has been killed off by disease but I've burned a few. If it's light wood then use it at the beginning and end of the heating season, and split some of it small and mix in the woodpile so you have kindling to bring in with the wood. Nice thing about Oak, Cedar, and Black Locust is they last a long, long time. You can pile rounds outside and they'll usually stay intact for a few years.

HTH


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## thenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

the only wood YOU should not burn is, MY wood...
lol


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## thenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

the only wood YOU should not burn is, MY wood...
lol


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## greendohn (Nov 20, 2011)

IT ALL BURNS BETTER THAN SNOW BALLS:msp_wink:


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## dingeryote (Nov 21, 2011)

Get the Box elder up and off the ground, and cover it.
Seperate it from everything but the Silver Maple, and leave those two for Fall and spring, and the odd armfull for getting things going quick.
It's not crap, just smells like it and burns fast with little real heat. I'll toss a couple 4" pieces on the coals in the mornings with a couple small splits of whatever else just to get things going. Ya gotta get rid of the crap anyhow, so it might as well heat the hootch a bit.

To avoid? Tree of Heaven/alanthius. The #### isn't worth the headaches, allergic sensitization/toxicity ugliness and stench coming out of the stove. Make a pile of it if you have to cut any, and make some Rabbit a nice home.

Anything else is either Meat or Gravy.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Cedar Ed (Nov 21, 2011)

Don't burn the Cedar I'll haul it away for you.
Just kidding.It makes very good kindling.
Cut it to length,split to an inch thick,let dry.
Use it to get the other wood burning.


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## JBinKC (Nov 21, 2011)

I also live in the Ozarks and I think as long as cedar, silver maple and boxelder doesn't make up more than 2/3rds of the total volume of firewood over the course of the burning season you should be in good shape.

I would exclusively burn the lighter woods during the beginning, end and warm spells during the middle of the burning season and days when you are around the house. I would mix it in with the heavier woods to maintain a coal bed while asleep or at work during the colder days.

I would try to use up the silver maple and boxelder first as they tend to rot quicker. 

The birch should be split because the bark holds in moisture.

White oak: I don't know where you got the idea that it is poor firewood it is great cold weather firewood as long as it is fully seasoned. 


If you are still short of seasoned higher BTU firewood there is a scourge of Black Oak death in the area and the trunk/limbs are very rot resistant. That would be my preferred target deadfall if you are trying to find something dry enough to burn this year with some BTUs on a woodlot. I would also look for obviously dead limbs of other oaks, hickories or locust that are not in contact with the ground. The other option is to find a barkless tree that is dead standing the top 1/2 of the tree should be in a condition to immediately burn well.

Bad firewood:wet spongy punky wood, poison sumac, and trees that are entangled with poison ivy.


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## woodguy105 (Nov 21, 2011)

Not sure how Elm burns but from a splitting point of view I stay away from it...at least the big rounds anyway. It's the 
only wood that gives me problems splitting.


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## AIM (Nov 21, 2011)

To repeat what has already been said. Silver maple is good fall spring wood. Seasons very fast. Cut green in the fall and seasoned by spring.

I personally leave box elder lay. I wouldn't take the time to pick it up. Better than snowballs I'll agree, but not by alot.

Elm is great. 75% of my heat came from elm for a few years. Got my woods pretty picked clean of the standing dead. Whats left is getting punky. Movin on to dead ash now.


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## zogger (Nov 21, 2011)

*All of it*

You can burn all that wood you have on your property. So what if one has more BTU per volume? By dry *weight*, they are all roughly the same.

Cut it, stack it off the ground, cover the top. That's it. Better to be years ahead than not. 

My rule of thumb on this farm, if I got to touch it to be cut, it goes on the woodstack. I am neither a species snob, nor a size snob, I burn a lot of small branch chunks. I am enjoying a little fire right now that is 1-3" branches. So what I got to throw more in frequently, I am sitting right here, it isn't a hassle. 

I cut and haul home one inch to over 30 inch diameter stuff, it all gets used. I actually like a lot of the small stuff that doesn't need any splitting whatsoever, your stacks accumulate real fast that way, skipping that whole splitting step. 

Lot of guys don't like to cut small stuff, I think I just fly with a small saw and can knock it out, just from years of doing it. Yep, I can block a big fat trunk of "perfect" hardwood and work it, to me that is by far and away not the hardest but the easiest work with firewood, it's just not that hard at all, takes no huge skill to do it, but I can *also* knock out a ton of smaller stuff and have a big pile of ready to burn soon pieces from the branches on trees as well, using the smallest most fuel stingy and bar oil stingy and easy to run saws, and now including my spiffy battery saw. Because I am *fast* when I want to be.

And if I have to cut it and handle it or move it, I might as well move it to my stacks.

My firewooding to me is *sport*, not drudgery or work. I am amazed I get paid to do it....not complaining at-all.

Stack and burn what ya got man, all of it, you got a real good gig at your new digs sounds like to me.

Why people are snobs about split versus the SAME SIZE AND WEIGHT AND SPECIES wood still "in the round" is beyond me. I have yet to see any difference at all in the heat coming from the stove one versus the other. Like, say you want a four inch across rough size split from your big blocks, swell. Now..what is wrong with cutting the four inch diameter branches and leaving them whole, as opposed to making some huge branch pile mess and calling it "slash"? Same with differing species, your example some neuron calling white oak junk wood! That goes beyond being a species snob right into the walking drool level.

Watch as the economy worsens, people will become a lot less picky on handling their energy requirements. Along with a lot of other snobbish tendencies.

Good luck with your new farm man, always neat stuff to do! You are "energy rich", enjoy it!


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## spike60 (Nov 21, 2011)

I hate following Zogger's posts when I really don't have time to write. :msp_wink:

But quickly, let me add my voice to the white oak crowd here. IMO, it's the best of the oaks. Close to hickory for heat and coals, and dries quicker than other oaks. 

As for the small stuff, I'll second everything Zogger said. And 4" to 6" rounds are pretty much the same size that I split my larger blocks down to, so having a bunch of that wood with no splitting to do cuts the work in half. And it could be my imagination, but to me it often seems that those rounds last longer that splits of equal size.


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## mga (Nov 21, 2011)

i usually go by the words FREE, then i make a determination whether or not it's worth it.


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## IHDiesel73L (Nov 21, 2011)

mga said:


> i usually go by the words FREE, then i make a determination whether or not it's worth it.



I just got a bed full of poplar this morning. Normally I wouldn't bother, but it was neatly stacked along the road which is my normal route to work and there was ample shoulder room to pull over-easy peasy. I burn poplar and pine when I'm home on the weekends working outside or in my basement. I just keep the air wide open and feed the furnace often. It keeps the house warm without using any of the high BTU wood (oak, locust, hickory, etc...) so that I can save that for overnights and when I'm at work during the day/the wife is home with the baby.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Nov 21, 2011)

zogger said:


> You can burn all that wood you have on your property. So what if one has more BTU per volume? By dry *weight*, they are all roughly the same.
> 
> Cut it, stack it off the ground, cover the top. That's it. Better to be years ahead than not.
> 
> ...



very well said! i bring home 1" and up.



spike60 said:


> As for the small stuff, I'll second everything Zogger said. And 4" to 6" rounds are pretty much the same size that I split my larger blocks down to, so having a bunch of that wood with no splitting to do cuts the work in half. And it could be my imagination, but to me it often seems that those rounds last longer that splits of equal size.



i completely agree


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## Chris-PA (Nov 21, 2011)

zogger said:


> I am neither a species snob, nor a size snob, I burn a lot of small branch chunks. I am enjoying a little fire right now that is 1-3" branches. So what I got to throw more in frequently, I am sitting right here, it isn't a hassle.


I gotta thank Zogger for reminding me of this earlier this year. I had about an hour one day so I hooked up the cart to the WheelHorse and fired up the 142 and went after the pile of white oak branches in the field. That's all the time it took to get a pile of smalls on the porch, and we burned them for plenty of nights in the small stove the beginning of the season. There's more and I will be getting them too, and now the pile of junk I gotta clean up is smaller. 

I like experimenting with how different woods burn. Sometimes I'll get a few pieces of something different, and I'll set that aside to experiment with. I was bummed one time when I spent a lot of effort gathering up some hickory from a neighbor down the road, but I never got to burn much of it as it rotted before I could process much of it. Now there's some persimmon down there and I want it but it's too wet to drive back for it. But oak and ash I got plenty of - I guess I gotta say that ash is the king of firewood. It's not the densest wood, but it has to be the easiest. It'll burn no matter what.


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Nov 21, 2011)

IHDiesel73L said:


> I just got a bed full of poplar this morning. Normally I wouldn't bother, but it was neatly stacked along the road which is my normal route to work and there was ample shoulder room to pull over-easy peasy. I burn poplar and pine when I'm home on the weekends working outside or in my basement. I just keep the air wide open and feed the furnace often. It keeps the house warm without using any of the high BTU wood (oak, locust, hickory, etc...) so that I can save that for overnights and when I'm at work during the day/the wife is home with the baby.



i was always told not to burn pine, but i see quite a few on here that say they burn it without issue. if i were to burn some pine is there anything special i would need to do with it or to watch for?


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## Eric Modell (Nov 21, 2011)

The only problem I have with round wood verse split wood, is the bark leaves more ash.

The other thing to keep in mind is if you have an older stove like we do, green wood is your friend.

I also live in the Ozarks and we burn it all.


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## IHDiesel73L (Nov 21, 2011)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i was always told not to burn pine, but i see quite a few on here that say they burn it without issue. if i were to burn some pine is there anything special i would need to do with it or to watch for?



Just make sure it's seasoned (pine will dry out in six months or less as long as its covered) and don't try to choke the air down to get a longer burn. Pine burns hot and quick-its good for taking the chill off first thing in the morning or after getting home from being away from the house for a while. The only way you're going to have creosote problems is if you try to burn it while its still really sappy (green) or you choke the air down on it, or you never clean your chimney-some folks go for the trifecta which almost always results in a chimney fire. :msp_scared: Also remember that not everyone (like us here in the Northeast) is blessed with abundant hardwood. Up in Canada, out West/in the Pacific Northwest, that's pretty much all they have to burn because hardwoods are hard to come by if you can find them at all. That said, if I pulled up to a powerline cut and there were equal piles of pine and oak sitting there and I only had so much bed space, I'd take the oak and not even come back for the pine. However, if my neighbor was having a pine tree taken down I'd gladly roll the rounds over to my house. Basically, I don't go out of my way for it, but I don't turn my nose up at it either.



Eric Modell said:


> The other thing to keep in mind is if you have an older stove like we do, green wood is your friend.



How do you figure? My Englander isn't that old, but because it's a furnace it's EPA exempt, no cat, no secondaries, so essentially it functions like an "older stove." The one year I got behind on scrounging and got desperate I started burning stuff that wasn't totally green but wasn't dry either. I had nothing but problems-hardly any heat, the wood was bubbling, hissing and spitting, I couldn't get an overnight burn to save my life, and my chimney was a mess. Fast forward to the following year with more of the same wood (after having sat under cover for nearly 18 months) and the furnace was practically cooking us out some nights! Now I don't burn anything that hasn't been split for at least a year. Really dense stuff like red oak, locust, hickory, etc...gets two years.


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## Ayatollah (Nov 21, 2011)

I got some free eucalyptus this summer, and it is seasoning right now. I've heard some negativity surrounding that tree, but think some of it is undeserved. It's a hot burning wood, and I for one enjoy the aroma. It may junk up the chimney or tube, but I always clean mine periodically anyway. Right now we are burning 3 or more year seasoned oak, and next in line is hard walnut. The walnut is right about at 6 months split, and I have thrown a few chunks in just before sleep time because I wake up to a glowing thick coal in the a.m., but that's been minimal so far. Right now, that walnut trunk pieces are as hard as any wood I've ever handled. Dense it is....
Willow...terrible in my opinion. Took out ours many years ago, and it didn't burn worth squat. Tried burning some that I hauled for somebody too, and same thing happened. From then on, just took to the dump
Manzanita. Extremely hot and volatile, but also very pitchy. Gums up the chimney and also seems to stand out on any day

cottonwood...terrible for many reasons


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## Deereman76 (Nov 21, 2011)

The only tree I will pass on is sweetgum. the stuff is just to hard to split to make it worthwhile. Especially when there are plenty other trees to cut down....


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## Eric Modell (Nov 21, 2011)

HDIESEL
I have been burning for 40 years and have only had one stove that did not like green wood. 
We mostly burn blow downs and dead trees lots of rot, moisture and other problems.
It always helps to have some green to make coals.
With our current setup we can not make creosote in the chimney, no matter what we do.
I used to sell wood to the old timers they all wanted mostly green because it burned slower.
I am just saying there are a lot of different situations.
I would like to upgrade to a more modern situation but do not have the time or funds now.
I got flamed last year for a comment about green wood, but we are struggling right now to keep coals in the stove. The wood is pretty green, tops from my neighbor who logged last spring freshly cut.


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## Wood Doctor (Nov 21, 2011)

*Wrong.*



Ayatollah said:


> ... cottonwood...terrible for many reasons



Sorry, guy, but cottonwood and oridinary poplar have just as much heat content as oak. Measure it using BTU/lb. Nearly all wood is the same using this common denominator as your guide.

If you have a good-size stove, cottonwood will take care of you and perhaps better than so-called premium hardwoods that take forever to light, get got, and warm up your cabin. Nothing beats cottonwood when you want some heat.


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## Ayatollah (Nov 21, 2011)

Wood Doctor said:


> Sorry, guy, but cottonwood and oridinary poplar have just as much heat content as oak. Measure it using BTU/lb. Nearly all wood is the same using this common denominator as your guide.
> 
> If you have a good-size stove, cottonwood will take care of you and perhaps better than so-called premium hardwoods that take forever to light, get got, and warm up your cabin. Nothing beats cottonwood when you want some heat.



My experience has been otherwise


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## Wood Doctor (Nov 21, 2011)

*???*



Ayatollah said:


> My experience has been otherwise.


Please clarify. Remember that I said BTU/lb, not BTU/cu ft. opcorn:


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## Zale (Nov 21, 2011)

petrified wood. Very difficult to get it to catch.:msp_biggrin:


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## 1project2many (Nov 22, 2011)

> Why people are snobs about split versus the SAME SIZE AND WEIGHT AND SPECIES wood still "in the round" is beyond me. I have yet to see any difference at all in the heat coming from the stove one versus the other.



For explanation, I split almost every piece of wood that goes into the shed. Even as small as 1". For one, split wood stacks better. I've posted pictures of how I stack wood in my shed before. For two, small diameter pieces left round will hold more moisture. I've watched 2 yr old seasoned pieces bubble water out the ends when burning. These are small pieces we're talking. Maybe the humidity in this area plays a part in that, but if the wood is split before stacking it's definitely drier when burned. 2" and smaller rounds of Gray / Paper Birch, Silver Maple, and Pin Cherry can all decompose within a couple of months if stacked wet in the spring. But if they're split they'll make it to the following season without a problem. Again, it's pretty humid here. Larger pieces of these species, and even Black Cherry, will break down starting from the outside and working in if left whole. But if split they dry out much better and last longer.



> You can burn all that wood you have on your property. So what if one has more BTU per volume? By dry *weight*, they are all roughly the same.



But the woodshed fills by volume, and that container's size is fixed. I've brought home and burned plenty of wood that many people throw out. I spent three years burning a pile of Butternut that I brought home. I burned a bunch of Silver Maple a couple of years back. Right now I've got almost a cord of Chinese Elm here that I'm just finishing splitting and stacking outside. That will go into a woodshed next summer and will be burned in the winter of 2013-14. If I put too much of that wood in the middle of the shed, during the cold months I won't have as much Oak, or Beech, or other good hardwood to burn. Sleep is hard to come by for me during the winter and getting up multiple times during the night to refill the stove isn't sustainable through the winter. Using large amounts of low density wood during that time period just doesn't work.

I always recommend the same approach to most people. Use the low density wood in the beginning and end of the winter and put more of the good stuff in the middle of the pile. It's not about being a snob. It's the best balance I've found. If a person happens on a huge score of good wood and wants to burn it all in one winter, then fine. But I'd still mix my wood and save the good stuff so I knew I had it a year or two out.


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## Ayatollah (Nov 22, 2011)

Wood Doctor said:


> Please clarify. Remember that I said BTU/lb, not BTU/cu ft. opcorn:



I'm not in the know about its' btu rating. Just remember it as difficult to split, slow to burn, and not particularly pleasant to smell. There's lots of it around here, and not many want it, so I'm not alone in my preference


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## Ayatollah (Nov 22, 2011)

1project2many said:


> For explanation, I split almost every piece of wood that goes into the shed. Even as small as 1". For one, split wood stacks better. I've posted pictures of how I stack wood in my shed before. For two, small diameter pieces left round will hold more moisture. I've watched 2 yr old seasoned pieces bubble water out the ends when burning. These are small pieces we're talking. Maybe the humidity in this area plays a part in that, but if the wood is split before stacking it's definitely drier when burned. 2" and smaller rounds of Gray / Paper Birch, Silver Maple, and Pin Cherry can all decompose within a couple of months if stacked wet in the spring. But if they're split they'll make it to the following season without a problem. Again, it's pretty humid here. Larger pieces of these species, and even Black Cherry, will break down starting from the outside and working in if left whole. But if split they dry out much better and last longer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with you on the splitting practice. For most woods anyway. There's probably some types that don't cure across the grains as well as they do through them, but mostly more exposure within seems to speed up the process. I've always wondered if the seasoning occurs more when the temperature changes form hot to cool, and warm to cool, than it does when it's mostly warm or hot. Refrigeration is a natural moisture thief, but exposure to it aids that process. So a woodshed might inhibit that when the temperature drops and rises in the cooler months.


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## Whitespider (Nov 22, 2011)

Wood Doctor said:


> *Sorry, guy, but cottonwood and oridinary poplar have just as much heat content as oak. Measure it using BTU/lb. Nearly all wood is the same using this common denominator as your guide.*



Not trying to start a big discussion here, but...
I see that statement used on this forum often, and it ain't quite correct. Where it goes wrong is with the word "heat" instead of "energy". Einstein's famous equation E=MC[SUP]2[/SUP] states that any substances of equal mass contain the same stored energy, not heat. Mass is not the same thing as weight... for example, a square yard of concrete weighs less on the moon than it does on earth. Still, if we remain on earth, weight can be used to compare mass... on earth a pound of feathers have the same mass as a pound of steel, and both contain the same amount of stored energy.

When we burn wood we are using a chemical reaction to convert wood into something else, and that reaction releases some of that stored energy in the form of heat. Because a pound of cottonwood has the same mass as a pound of oak, if we could burn both, and trap _*all*_ the heat energy released from both, it would be the same (in other words, if we had a 100-percent efficient appliance). But there ain't any such thing as a 100-percent efficient wood-burning appliance. A less-dense substance burns faster, or releases its energy faster... which means in a less than 100-percent efficient appliance a larger percentage of the heat energy will necessarily have to go out the flue.

Think of it this way... A pound of toilet paper holds the same stored energy as a pound of oak. For illustration purposes we will unroll that pound of toilet paper so it lays loose (even less dense). Now, take two wood stoves, put that pound of loose toilet paper in one and a pound of oak in the other... light them both. In just a few seconds the toilet paper will be consumed by fire in a massive hot flame, but you can lay your hand on the stove because near none of it was transferred to the steel. The oak is just getting started, and in a few minutes you won't be able to touch the stove without receiving a nasty burn.

It's the same thing, at a considerably lesser degree, with a less-dense wood; A somewhat smaller percentage of the heat produced will be available, or harnessed, to warm your butt. So even though a pound of cottonwood has the same _*potential*_ heat value as a pound of oak, you would need a 100-percent efficient appliance to realize it. A high efficiency burn will do a better job of harnessing the heat from cottonwood... but at the same time it also does a better job of harnessing the heat from oak, although the gap gets smaller as efficiency increases.

But in the end, no matter how you slice it, you will harness more heat from a denser wood... you will get more heat from a pound of oak than you will from a pound of cottonwood.


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## logbutcher (Nov 22, 2011)

Spidy nailed it....again.
It would be nice to have more intelligent discussions such as his post rather than these righteous declarations of ditzhood. 

Well Mr. Ed, you have our permission to burn as many pounds of toilet paper ( please use Charmin :msp_w00t as you like. Perhaps you also have that oh-so-special magic stove that will heat a 5000 ft² house for 80 hours of high BTUs ? No other stove like that ever. Don't tell us how dumb people are. How long did you say you've used wood for a heat source ? And what about that central heating in your place set at 65 F ???? 

C'mon now enough fool stuff: unless you're in high latitudes where ONLY softwoods thrive, most wood burners use the highest BTU, most dense wood available. You got Cottonwood or Poplar/Aspen, burn it. FOR MANY REASONS, THOSE SPECIES ARE CRAP FOR FIREWOOD where other kinds are available. You need or want to burn green, unseasoned wood, fine. We're not here to approve or not. At least I'm not.:taped:

JMNSHO


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## Carl Anderson (Nov 22, 2011)

What kind of cedar are people burning? Where I live we have lots of hardwoods so we don't usually bother burning cedars but there are a lot of those too. All the years I built and repaired fences in the middle of the woods on farms we didn't bother carrying fence posts with us. We just cut down cedars for that since they don't rot, they are almost like pressure treated. Some guys sell red cedar posts for up to $5 a piece for a 8 foot post about 6 inches in diameter, more for bigger ones. These are red cedars with the red, fragrant wood. I don't know if white cedars have the same rot resistent attributes. So is there any market for selling cedar fence posts anywhere else?


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## zogger (Nov 22, 2011)

*Size*



Whitespider said:


> Not trying to start a big discussion here, but...
> I see that statement used on this forum often, and it ain't quite correct. Where it goes wrong is with the word "heat" instead of "energy". Einstein's famous equation E=MC[SUP]2[/SUP] states that any substances of equal mass contain the same stored energy, not heat. Mass is not the same thing as weight... for example, a square yard of concrete weighs less on the moon than it does on earth. Still, if we remain on earth, weight can be used to compare mass... on earth a pound of feathers have the same mass as a pound of steel, and both contain the same amount of stored energy.
> 
> When we burn wood we are using a chemical reaction to convert wood into something else, and that reaction releases some of that stored energy in the form of heat. Because a pound of cottonwood has the same mass as a pound of oak, if we could burn both, and trap _*all*_ the heat energy released from both, it would be the same (in other words, if we had a 100-percent efficient appliance). But there ain't any such thing as a 100-percent efficient wood-burning appliance. A less-dense substance burns faster, or releases its energy faster... which means in a less than 100-percent efficient appliance a larger percentage of the heat energy will necessarily have to go out the flue.
> ...



I adjust my heat with size of piece that goes into the stove. I am just going to disagree with you on your last statement. Yes, if you split to the same size, different species will throw less or more heat "by the chunk", but if you split and burn with a bit more thought, using a much larger variety of sizes, plus adjust your stove feeding schedule appropriately, you can use the lesser species just as efficiently and it doesn't get into the ridiculoous range either. 

Example, I burn a lot of the lesser tulip poplar and sweetgum. They are still great firewood sources, easy to harvest, and we have them in plenty. I adjust what size, how many, and frequency of loads determined by what demand I need any particular day or time of day, as the needs change all the time. I stack a really LARGE variety of sizes and species. No way are my stacks uniform in chunk size. This allows me *huge* flexibility in burn, and also what I can use from the woodlot again, huge flexibility.

My old heater is designed in such a way as it will throw heat with a single small stick, or filling it up, or anything in between, with whatever ya got, all you have to do is think about it, what you are trying to do. It is both a front and also top loader. Loading from the top I can put in quite a large chunk for a room heater type heater, or pack it with smaller rounds and splits (very rarely needed here, but it could be done if demand warranted it). On lesser demand times, load from the front, one or more pieces at a time. I even can time the heat output, say I want a little heat, then following that more heat, as in early evening to later on. Lesser species go on the bottom, throw a chunk or two of oak or whatever on top, it burns good that way and you can feel the heat output go up as soon as the bottom wood is mostly gone and the oak gets going later.

It's all in how you size and use your wood. There's a place for the lesser species in most scenarios.

And I burned the same way when I lived in New England, with plenty of double digits below zero temps to deal with, so it is not exactly a function of living up north and having a big heat demand for extended times, I still burned lesser species up there, and it worked fine. I like the "multifuel" method over the "just one species and one size" perfect wood approach. 

Now I don't own or run any expensive EPA stove or boiler, so perhaps it is different, I will readily concede the point as I have no experience there, my only experiences are a variety over the years of plain jane old wood (cook) stoves and room heaters and some indoor plain furnaces, no water heating, just plain hot air. But, with those heaters, paying attention to load size and species versus demand and output desired is just as scientific a way to go about it as any other way, plus it results in cheaper and easier wood harvest, as you can take most anything and make good use from it.

Now ideally, a wood combustible appliance would be using very uniform fuel, such as pellets, with automatic controls, etc., to get the greatest efficiency, but once you start talking about harvesting your own and using various chunks of wood, efven similar size and the same species, then you just have to think a lot more, and it takes a bit more skull sweat to achieve close to that level efficiency. But, it can be done.

Beyond that, it would probably be better to build a pure designed wood gasifier and burn the gas in a real gas heater, if you really wanted maximum efficiency. I know the various designs of wood heaters I have seen posted here attempt to hit at that level, but there are pure gasifiers that work better.

I never have built one, although I did build and burn (test burns) a methane digester before. A wood gasifier would be interesting as you could run a cheap generator as well from the output, along with your heat. You need serious gas scrubbing though and like stainless steel plumbing and all sorts of expensive stuff.

different discussion sometime.


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## zogger (Nov 22, 2011)

*red is better*



Carl Anderson said:


> What kind of cedar are people burning? Where I live we have lots of hardwoods so we don't usually bother burning cedars but there are a lot of those too. All the years I built and repaired fences in the middle of the woods on farms we didn't bother carrying fence posts with us. We just cut down cedars for that since they don't rot, they are almost like pressure treated. Some guys sell red cedar posts for up to $5 a piece for a 8 foot post about 6 inches in diameter, more for bigger ones. These are red cedars with the red, fragrant wood. I don't know if white cedars have the same rot resistent attributes. So is there any market for selling cedar fence posts anywhere else?



The red stuff is great rot and bumble bee resistant wood, the white stuff the bees eat fast and it rots easier. been my experience anyway. Plus I have the fun of spraying down my boss's house and guest house all the time because he bought western white cedar logs to build them. Freeking bees eat their way in, then the wood peckers come over to get them. I wouldn't touch that stuff for structure building if I had access to the red. I have a little bridge over the ditch I made five years ago with red cedar I cut here, not a hint of rot or insect infestation yet.


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## Wood Doctor (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, I'm not here to defend cottonwood because I seldom burn it inside my stove except to get the fire started. On the other hand, I would rather burn cottonwood than any conifer packed with pine tar. There are also hundreds of deer hunters, duck hunters, etc. who use it to heat cabins. Practically nothing gets a stove hotter faster than cottonwood, so it has its place. It's also perfect for campfires, especially when mixed with elm of any kind.

You can call cottonwood toilet paper all you want to. It brings a smile to my face. :msp_biggrin:

Meanwhile, this year I'll continue to burn in my stove my collection of walnut, ash, oak, locust, red elm, hackberry, and mulberry. These seem to work very well. Only mulberry throws sparks, but when used in good stove, that is a minor problem.

BTW, where were we on this thread before we started trashing cottonwood? I'm a bit lost. opcorn:


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## s219 (Nov 22, 2011)

The oak versus toilet paper analogy is interesting since it brings up a good point. You could pulp up some oak and then make it into toilet paper. Pound for pound, solid wood oak will beat the oak toilet paper as firewood even though they are both oak. You could say the same thing about oak logs versus oak kindling.

There's a lot more to it than the wood type obviously -- we also have to take into account what form it's in, surface area, moisture content, stove configuration/efficiency, ash production, etc. Sometimes it's hard to make "this wood" versus "that wood" comparisons in general when it can be a stretch even comparing the same wood!


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## ks_osage_orange (Nov 22, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Not trying to start a big discussion here, but...
> I see that statement used on this forum often, and it ain't quite correct. Where it goes wrong is with the word "heat" instead of "energy". Einstein's famous equation E=MC[SUP]2[/SUP] states that any substances of equal mass contain the same stored energy, not heat. Mass is not the same thing as weight... for example, a square yard of concrete weighs less on the moon than it does on earth. Still, if we remain on earth, weight can be used to compare mass... on earth a pound of feathers have the same mass as a pound of steel, and both contain the same amount of stored energy.
> 
> I'm sure you are aware of this, but I just wanted to clarify that the famous Einstein equation shows the relationship that exists between matter and energy when it is converted fully from one to the other in a nuclear reaction. Not from a chemical reactions such as combustion. We see this type of mass to energy conversion in thermonuclear weapons and the fusion of Hydrogen atoms into Helium atoms in the core of the sun, not from burning wood (or any other basic exothermic chemical reaction) These types of reactions are governed by other laws of chemistry and thermodynamics. If you where to apply Einsteins equation to burning a pound of Oak (about .5 kg) then we should get approximately 43 trillion BTU's from 1 lb of oak. This equation does not apply to to this discussion.


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## ks_osage_orange (Nov 22, 2011)

Sorry for the above hijack, to answer the question, I will burn any species of wood in my CB (not poison ivy) even Willow, which I think is the worst firewood around here. But when it comes to burning inside the house I generally use quality hardwoods only.


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## hoosier daddy (Nov 22, 2011)

*Bahahaha!!!!*



Zale said:


> petrified wood. Very difficult to get it to catch.:msp_biggrin:



that's too funny...tell you what we can use your saw and splitter and we'll use my matches!!! good one man!!!


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## Eric Modell (Nov 22, 2011)

Some times I cut monster grape vines, and even me the green wood burner need to let the grape vines season.


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## mga (Nov 22, 2011)

chopperfreak2k1 said:


> i was always told not to burn pine, but i see quite a few on here that say they burn it without issue. if i were to burn some pine is there anything special i would need to do with it or to watch for?



i burn quite a bit of pine (because it was free and cut for me) done this for years.

last summer i decided to clean my chimney....it's been years since i did it last. it wasn't worth my time to clean it. i ran the brush up and down and it removed alot of dust and the clay tiles were showing. i had almost zero creosote build up.

i believe where pine causes the most problems is in air tight stoves with metal chimneys. when you damper them down, they aren't hot, the gases rise up and the "cooler" metal chimney attracts the particles and creates a build up on the pipe.

just my theoretical opinion.


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## logbutcher (Nov 22, 2011)

Wood Doctor said:


> Well, I'm not here to defend cottonwood because I seldom burn it inside my stove except to get the fire started. On the other hand, I would rather burn cottonwood than any conifer packed with pine tar. There are also hundreds of deer hunters, duck hunters, etc. who use it to heat cabins. Practically nothing gets a stove hotter faster than cottonwood, so it has its place. It's also perfect for campfires, especially when mixed with elm of any kind.
> 
> You can call cottonwood toilet paper all you want to. It brings a smile to my face. :msp_biggrin:
> 
> ...



Another straw dog set up Ed--no "trashing" any species. Unless we can form the Cottonwood Anti-Defamation Ass. :jester:
The point was yours declaring the obvious that pound for pound all species give the same BTUs. We do understand density. 

To elaborate: the toilet paper analogy is thusly ( not an E.B. White allowed word ) poundage. If you want to carry it to the Darwinian end then one pound of Charmin will give you the same BTUs as one pound of the beloved cottonwood. Expensive.

And you may well be lost. PM for a referral. BTW: what specialty "Doctor" are you ? Board certified Proctologist ? :msp_smile:

Happy Thanksgiving !! Our deer season ends this week.


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## thechknhwk (Nov 22, 2011)

Ayatollah said:


> I agree with you on the splitting practice. For most woods anyway. There's probably some types that don't cure across the grains as well as they do through them, but mostly more exposure within seems to speed up the process. I've always wondered if the seasoning occurs more when the temperature changes form hot to cool, and warm to cool, than it does when it's mostly warm or hot. Refrigeration is a natural moisture thief, but exposure to it aids that process. So a woodshed might inhibit that when the temperature drops and rises in the cooler months.



Seasoning is simply the loss of moisture from the wood. Under what conditions do you think a bowl of water would most quickly evaporate? Answer that and I think you can figure it out.


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## upsnake (Nov 22, 2011)

Wait, I just want to go those 43 trillion btus, from a pound of oak. It would sure make collecting firewood easier.


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## Ayatollah (Nov 23, 2011)

thechknhwk said:


> Seasoning is simply the loss of moisture from the wood. Under what conditions do you think a bowl of water would most quickly evaporate? Answer that and I think you can figure it out.


Sorry, but don't quite get the connection. I mean, the bowl of water thing. Wood is a bit different


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## 1project2many (Nov 23, 2011)

> I've always wondered if the seasoning occurs more when the temperature changes form hot to cool, and warm to cool, than it does when it's mostly warm or hot.



Temperature and humidity variations absolutely affect drying rates. But it's hard to take advantage of them in the uncontrolled climate of the outdoors. I built my woodshed to use convection to help drying. If the wood is warm, cooler air rising around and through the rows will dry it fairly quickly. This seems to work best when the days are warm and the nights get cool.


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## WoodChuck'r (Nov 23, 2011)

I have a wood stove. I burn wood in it. I cut the wood with my chainsaw.


The wood is used for fuel so I can heat my home with the wood stove. 


I heat in the winter, no need to in the summer.


I'm hungry.


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## Steve NW WI (Nov 23, 2011)

Let's see here, I've burned a bunch of different woods over the years. I'll give a little of my preferences and opinions as I go:

Oak (Red, Burr, and White) top shelf stuff, if seasoned well. 

Ironwood (Eastern Hophornbeam): HOT HOT HOT, the northern equal of hedge. Doesn't get big here, so it takes a lot of little trees to make a cord. That stack is reserved for brrr-frickin cold days in January and February, best to mix with a bit of faster burning wood, not at all good kindling.

Maple (Sugar, Red and Silver, also Box Elder (Manitoba Maple)) Huge swing in this family. Sugar maple is on par with oak, but seasons a bit faster. The red and silver are midgrade woods, but produce good heat. Burned mostly on weekends and mornings when I'm around to tend the stove. Box elder goes mostly to the firepit, but good to take the chill off in spring and fall.

Elm (Red, American, Siberian, etc) variable quality depending on condition when cut. Cut green, takes a while to season, but seems to heat a bit better than standing dead with the bark off, the usual condition I get them in), standing dead can be slightly punky before they tip over, and not a lot of heat in the punky stuff. Tops from dead standing are normally dry and solid, for someone looking to keep a stove fed straight from the saw, it's hard to beat.

Poplar/Cottonwood - grows back faster than you can burn it, and that's pretty fast. There's a reason match sticks are made from them, very good kindling and firestarters. Otherwise, day wood and spring/fall wood.

Birch (white/paper) Not quite oak, but if you get it processed before it starts to rot, very good wood.

Apple - nice wood in the stove, but really, save it for the grill.

Cherry - good on the grill too, or for woodworking, but I burn quite a bit, it's a common fenceline tree here, middle of the road heatingwise.

Pines/Spruce/Cedar/other softwoods - I don't get a lot of em, saved for firestarters or that snap crackle pop campfire from time to time.

The one wood not welcome back here is Buckeye/horse chestnut. If that's all OH can come up with to represent their state, I recommend everyone that lives in OH move out now. Nasty smelling, twisted wood won't stack after you ram the splitter through it, might possibly be an endothermic reaction when burned, and produces roughly 8 gallons of ash per 5 lb split. YUCK!


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## thechknhwk (Nov 23, 2011)

Ayatollah said:


> Sorry, but don't quite get the connection. I mean, the bowl of water thing. Wood is a bit different



How so? It's evaporation. The more surface area exposed to air the faster the evaporation process will be. Like you mentioned splitting is good even for smaller pieces. I agree that different species have different drying times, but that would seem to be related to their initial moisture content. What type of air has the most capacity to facilitate evaporation? Cool air with high humidity or warm air with low humidity? Add air movement to that and the evaporative effect becomes greater. You disagree with this theory?


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## Ayatollah (Nov 23, 2011)

thechknhwk said:


> How so? It's evaporation. The more surface area exposed to air the faster the evaporation process will be. Like you mentioned splitting is good even for smaller pieces. I agree that different species have different drying times, but that would seem to be related to their initial moisture content. What type of air has the most capacity to facilitate evaporation? Cool air with high humidity or warm air with low humidity? Add air movement to that and the evaporative effect becomes greater. You disagree with this theory?



Yes.....I think. I don't know whether different temperatures with the same humidity speed up or slow down the process of curing the wood. That is what I was musing. But the exposure thing....it seems as though no matter how many times I split a round, if it still has moisture in it when tossed in the fire, the hissing and moisture comes out the ends :smile2:


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## howellhandmade (Nov 23, 2011)

thechknhwk said:


> How so? It's evaporation. The more surface area exposed to air the faster the evaporation process will be. Like you mentioned splitting is good even for smaller pieces. I agree that different species have different drying times, but that would seem to be related to their initial moisture content. What type of air has the most capacity to facilitate evaporation? Cool air with high humidity or warm air with low humidity? Add air movement to that and the evaporative effect becomes greater. You disagree with this theory?



Right. Except that the climate doesn't always cooperate. Many places in the summer the air is humid and in winter it's dry. Of course, warm, dry weather with wind and full sun is optimum -- like, say, Albuquerque -- but we've got more big oaks here in Pennsylvania. I keep my stacks covered (an argument in itself) and find that a lot of good seasoning happens in winter when most of the moisture is frozen out of the air. Even ice cubes in your freezer will evaporate over time.


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## 1project2many (Nov 23, 2011)

> What type of air has the most capacity to facilitate evaporation? Cool air with high humidity or warm air with low humidity? Add air movement to that and the evaporative effect becomes greater. You disagree with this theory?



Ahh. The higher the air temperature the greater the amount of moisture the air can contain. But evaporation is fastest when the moisture to evaporate is warm and the air surrounding is dry and cool. When the surrounding air temp is lower than the water temp, energy contained in the water will cause a change from liquid to gas. When surrounding air temp is the same or greater, energy for the conversion must come from the surrounding environment. Pour water on a warm concrete floor in winter, then open a nearby door and watch the steam form.




> ....it seems as though no matter how many times I split a round, if it still has moisture in it when tossed in the fire, the hissing and moisture comes out the ends


Softwoods are less likely to do this than hardwoods. It's due to the way the wood is "constructed." Many hardwoods have pores or "vessels" that transport moisture through the length of the log.


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## Ayatollah (Nov 23, 2011)

NikkiFry said:


> Don't use wet wood! :msp_biggrin:
> But seriously, most wood is okay for burning, unless it's treated. I stay away from burning wood with paint or other chemicals on it. It's probably fine, but those chemicals can be bad for your lungs and skin.



Amen to that. Many craiglist ads out here offer torn down fence woods for firewood. Paint or other coatings have usually been on there. Decks also.


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## Whitespider (Nov 23, 2011)

NikkiFry said:


> *:evilgrinon't use wet wood!*



:evilgrin:


Sure... you can use wet wood...


:evilgrin:


But I'd suggest treating it with something to make up for the BTU's you'll loose...


:evilgrin:


I have a favorite for treating wet wood...


:evilgrin:


What I do is...


:evilgrin:


...soak it with used oil. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## howellhandmade (Nov 23, 2011)

Ayatollah said:


> Amen to that. Many craiglist ads out here offer torn down fence woods for firewood. Paint or other coatings have usually been on there. Decks also.



Heh. Saw one ad for free firewood -- turned out to be railroad ties from landscaping that was being torn out. Couldn't imagine many more ways this could NOT be firewood.


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## hoosier daddy (Nov 23, 2011)

*Bahahaha!!!*



Whitespider said:


> :evilgrin:
> 
> 
> Sure... you can use wet wood...
> ...



If you can't find enough used motor oil you could always...go kill a whale use that oil...only if you are waring a fur coat made from baby seals or some other innocent critter...Seriously, I love all animals especially dipped in gravy...

Go ahead and smack me around with your green bleeding heart!!!

HD


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## Whitespider (Nov 23, 2011)

Couple big chunks of tire rubber will usually get-r-goin' if'n you're short on used motor oil.


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## indiansprings (Nov 23, 2011)

Don't know the location of the op here in Missouri, but having lived here all my life, I've seen everything burned. Everything on your list is more than useable. I find our climate lets wood cure fairly quickly once you have split it and stacked it up to facilitate good air circulation throughout the stack. One of the species that is often overlooked,shunned and can be almost always be had for free is walnut. When places are logged and we go in and clean up the tops we often leave loads and loads of walnut tops because no one will buy it. We only have one customer with a OWB that will buy it, not much of a demand, and he always wants s major discount, not worth messing with. Same thing with sycamore tops, we just leave them laying, no market. If your new to the area, find one of the local loggers, find out the last logging job they did and contact the land owner, most will let you clean up the tops for dang near nothing for stacking up all the small limbs that are left.


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## Dalmatian90 (Nov 23, 2011)

> Couldn't imagine many more ways this could NOT be firewood.



Been told by my uncles my grandfather used to have old ties delivered for free -- the farm had rail lines running along both the north and south property lines and the section office was across the street.

In addition to belching like a coal locomotive, it wasn't unusual to have 6-8' flames coming out of the sauna chimney!

The creosote tended to burn a tad bit on the hot and rich side.


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## zogger (Nov 23, 2011)

*Walnut?*



indiansprings said:


> Don't know the location of the op here in Missouri, but having lived here all my life, I've seen everything burned. Everything on your list is more than useable. I find our climate lets wood cure fairly quickly once you have split it and stacked it up to facilitate good air circulation throughout the stack. One of the species that is often overlooked,shunned and can be almost always be had for free is walnut. When places are logged and we go in and clean up the tops we often leave loads and loads of walnut tops because no one will buy it. We only have one customer with a OWB that will buy it, not much of a demand, and he always wants s major discount, not worth messing with. Same thing with sycamore tops, we just leave them laying, no market. If your new to the area, find one of the local loggers, find out the last logging job they did and contact the land owner, most will let you clean up the tops for dang near nothing for stacking up all the small limbs that are left.



For real, the people won't burn walnut and sycamore? I burn some and it seems to do OK. The walnut is denser heavier than the sycamore but it burns pretty good, one of my better woods here, the sycamore is "fair" about like my sweetgum. I pull sycamore outta the creekbed once it is standing dead or any branches that fall. And walnut I get here and there, I won't take any big live ones though, unless really crippled already.

OK, I just looked it up, walnut is 20 mil BTU/cord, red oak is 22. I mean, that is dang close. 

All I got to say is "wow" those are some picky people!

Let them lose their jobs and still have to find heat, I bet they stop being so picky!


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## Chris-PA (Nov 23, 2011)

zogger said:


> For real, the people won't burn walnut and sycamore? I burn some and it seems to do OK. The walnut is denser heavier than the sycamore but it burns pretty good, one of my better woods here, the sycamore is "fair" about like my sweetgum. I pull sycamore outta the creekbed once it is standing dead or any branches that fall. And walnut I get here and there, I won't take any big live ones though, unless really crippled already.
> 
> OK, I just looked it up, walnut is 20 mil BTU/cord, red oak is 22. I mean, that is dang close.
> 
> ...


I think the "problem" is that walnut seems to need to be very well seasoned, more so than oak. I have not burned a huge amount of it, but enough to know it's fine firewood.


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## Ayatollah (Nov 23, 2011)

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> I think the "problem" is that walnut seems to need to be very well seasoned, more so than oak. I have not burned a huge amount of it, but enough to know it's fine firewood.



Walnut is dense and heavy to load when it's fresh. Walnut is also dense and solid when splitting. And finally, Walnut is dense when curing. But once you get past that, good split walnut is good coaling and decent aroma. The heat output is barely discernable from oak when it's burning away.

I got 2 cords of 80+ year old Walnut for the carrying away this summer from a tree guy who didn't have enough crew to load it. Hard work in 102 degrees, had to push some big rounds up onto the trailer, and when it was on there...ooooohhh weee, was the trailer a lumbering beast.
Walnut is good stuff
Here's a picture of it when the trailer was almost unloaded


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## Whitespider (Nov 24, 2011)

It is often said that oak requires 2 years of seasoning... something I disagree with because... (well, that's an argument for another day). But I can say from experience that you will most likely be very disappointed burning Black Walnut that has not been given at least 2 years (after splitting) to season... three is better. This ain't scientific fact, just a thought, but I think it must have something to do with the high percentages of oil and juglone.


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## Wood Doctor (Nov 24, 2011)

*Walnut Deserves a Second Look*

Walnut is not the best firewood that there is (ash probably deserves that distinction), but it sure works well after sufficient drying for two or three main reasons: easy to split, reasonable density, and easy to light.

I happened to mention that I liked walnut to a sawmill owner last August. The bossman overheard me. The following week, 75 logs arrived on a flatbed truck, each about 15' long and 9" to 16" in diameter. These were rejects due to insufficient diameter, too many knots, lack of straightness, and possible embedded metal. I cut them all into rounds, split, and stacked the booty--nearly 12 cords. Most was ready to burn within a month after splitting. Mix walnut with dry hackberry, ash, or elm, and you have a fabulous fire. Even oak enjoys its company.

I'm in heaven. :msp_smile:


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## Steve NW WI (Nov 24, 2011)

Wood Doctor said:


> Walnut is not the best firewood that there is (ash probably deserves that distinction), but it sure works well after sufficient drying for two or three main reasons: easy to split, reasonable density, and easy to light.
> 
> I happened to mention that I liked walnut to a sawmill owner last August. The bossman overheard me. The following week, 75 logs arrived on a flatbed truck, each about 15' long and 9" to 16" in diameter. These were rejects due to insufficient diameter, too many knots, lack of straightness, and possible embedded metal. I cut them all into rounds, split, and stacked the booty--nearly 12 cords. Most was ready to burn within a month after splitting. Mix walnut with dry hackberry, ash, or elm, and you have a fabulous fire. Even oak enjoys its company.
> 
> I'm in heaven. :msp_smile:



I'd be mentioning to that mill owner that I also like oak, ash, maple, birch, elm, and whatever else he wants to haul my way!


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## Ayatollah (Nov 25, 2011)

I don't remember it being mentioned here yet, but palm trees haven't been a good wood to burn. The question is, are they even really wood?

But...coconut shells seemed decent enough. Trouble is; if you have them, you don't really need to burn anything to stay warm


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## WoodChuck'r (Nov 28, 2011)

WoodChuck'r said:


> I have a wood stove. I burn wood in it. I cut the wood with my chainsaw.
> 
> 
> The wood is used for fuel so I can heat my home with the wood stove.
> ...




Is this necessary...? You're an idiot....


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## Hedgerow (Nov 28, 2011)

WoodChuck'r said:


> Is this necessary...? You're an idiot....



Don't get me started on hard wood v.s. Soft wood bro'...
Just sayin... 
:msp_rolleyes:


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## sb47 (Nov 29, 2011)

cwatkin said:


> Yeah, I don't burn any pressure treated stuff but will burn kiln dried lumber scraps as kindling. I have also been known to pick up pallets at the lumberyard as they set them out back for free. These can be cut up into nice pieces that make good kindling. Since there is a lot of open space, I tend to get these as needed and don't want to store a lot of them. I do find that using these as bases to stack firewood works well. When that stack of wood is gone, I generally burn that pallet in a brush pile and replace it with a fresh one as they only last so long.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Conor



Be carful with burning pallet wood as some of it has been treated or sprayed for bugs.
Also some pallets have had toxic chemicals stored on them and could have soaked up some nasty stuff. I only burn them outside when they have out lived there purpose. 

Dennis


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## woodbooga (Nov 29, 2011)

Poison ivy, etc aside, the question really comes down to - sorry to be boring - facility management.

The facility is your storage area - and maximizing storage volume.

128 cu ft of white pine throws off less warm then a comparable volume of red oak.

I'm fortunate to have enough under-roof storage to have pine and punkwood for Sept-Nov and April-June heat and cooking, as well as Dec-Feb hard winter heating.


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