# preferred equipment



## helen (May 12, 2008)

Here's an odd question, if money weren't an issue, what would lumbermen on the west coast prefer to use. I'm refering to everything from boots to clothes to saws to trucks. 
This is person equipment,not company issue.
Actually while I'm at it , what would Canadians prefer too. I ask because while touring Europe I saw a lumbering operation going on, & the men there were dressed almost like astronauts. I was told that's the law there. I don't see anything like that here (in PA).


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## 2dogs (May 12, 2008)

Watch Ax Men, it pretty much shows what has been in fashion for decades because it is gear that works.


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## slowp (May 12, 2008)

Still, there needs to be somebody who makes pastel hickory shirts and accessories! My home dyed shirt is fading. If I were in charge of fashions, I would get a pastel hickory shirt and matching hardhat...cept I'm not a logger.
Merely one of those annoying foresters.


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## 2dogs (May 13, 2008)

slowp said:


> Still, there needs to be somebody who makes pastel hickory shirts and accessories! My home dyed shirt is fading. If I were in charge of fashions, I would get a pastel hickory shirt and matching hardhat...cept I'm not a logger.
> Merely one of those annoying foresters.



Can you get Skull Bucket with horns?  

The city forester I deal with is pretty cool although if she cites you you are guilty and must pay a fine before going to court. Then you can work to prove your innocense. A citation is proof of guilt here.


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## Humptulips (May 13, 2008)

I love my Kulien caulks but they are very expensive. Other then that just the standard hickory shirt, overalls, suspenders and white ox gloves and don't give me one of those plastic hats. I've been wearing a tin hat to long to change. Still got my 6 point.
I have my preferences on rigging too but you use what the company has. I'd rather have a ropemaster over a young any day but you usually get youngs, cheaper you know.


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## slowp (May 13, 2008)

2dogs said:


> Can you get Skull Bucket with horns?
> 
> The city forester I deal with is pretty cool although if she cites you you are guilty and must pay a fine before going to court. Then you can work to prove your innocense. A citation is proof of guilt here.



I did have some antlers glued on my old hat for a river raft race. I don't do fines. In fact, I very rarely have to "shut down" folks anymore. Although I did find some suspicious tires thrown in a burn pile yesterday. I'm sure the story will be that some hunters did it. Not to mention that they look like the same tires that got all flattened and torn from setting the yarder up on them. Those hunters do all sorts of stuff like that!

Kuliens are the Cadillac or Mercedes of boots. I used to have a pair. Never got wet feet until I wore holes in the boots. I can't find the shop where they are made so I'm thinking he moved? I wonder how spendy as Wescos are right up there too.


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## Humptulips (May 13, 2008)

Slowp
Kuliens are still in the same location they've always been. In business since 1877.
Kulien Shoes
611 North Tower
Centralia WA 98531
Phone# (360)736-6943

Last pair I bought were right around $900. They start at $700 and something. You can add on extras and run the price to astonomical levels. I saw a pair in there a couple years ago with a price tag of $1800. I have a few issues with my left foot that run the price up a bit but I don't get too many special changes. They are al hand made and custom to each customer.


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## Zodiac45 (May 14, 2008)

Humptulips said:


> Slowp
> Kuliens are still in the same location they've always been. In business since 1877.
> Kulien Shoes
> 611 North Tower
> ...



Wow! That's a little pricey for my tastes. I love a nice pair of boots but I'd buy a new milling saw for that money and wear my Chippewa's out!


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## slowp (May 14, 2008)

Zodiac45 said:


> Wow! That's a little pricey for my tastes. I love a nice pair of boots but I'd buy a new milling saw for that money and wear my Chippewa's out!



They are excellent boots, but since I tend to abuse boots (not grease them as much as I should), I'll stick to the lower priced Wescos, I guess. Also, my Kuliens made my feet look so tiny that a meeting with cutters was ruined when they saw my feet and started laughing so hard and chanting Smurf Feet, Smurf Feet that we forgot what we were supposed to be discussing. Wescos are up to $400 or so I hear now and they make my feet look bigger. I don't think they make the Chippewas in my size or a lot of other boots for that matter. Life is not fair!


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## Humptulips (May 14, 2008)

Back in the day I prefered highlines but sadly they are gone. I could never wear whites comfotably so I can't speak for them but Kuliens are about the only decent caulks out there anymore and the only drive in caulks still made. They are a bit heavy and pricey but you'll never find a more comfortable and durable shoe. I have a bit of a problem with my left foot so custom made is the way to go for me. Truthfully Wescos never were much of a shoe. A cheap shoe for a guy starting out. As I understand the availability of good leather is the problem. Chrome taning leather is a big pollution problem so most of the factories don't do it anymore. Most use oil tanned leather and it leaks and stretches or at least that's what I've been told.


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## tramp bushler (May 18, 2008)

*VIBERG 105T A Southeasterners Riggin*



Humptulips said:


> Back in the day I prefered highlines but sadly they are gone. I could never wear whites comfotably so I can't speak for them but Kuliens are about the only decent caulks out there anymore and the only drive in caulks still made. They are a bit heavy and pricey but you'll never find a more comfortable and durable shoe. I have a bit of a problem with my left foot so custom made is the way to go for me. Truthfully Wescos never were much of a shoe. A cheap shoe for a guy starting out. As I understand the availability of good leather is the problem. Chrome taning leather is a big pollution problem so most of the factories don't do it anymore. Most use oil tanned leather and it leaks and stretches or at least that's what I've been told.





Hump , you ever work in Southeast ??????????????

I found out about Viberg Corks about 10 years ago ,, When Wesco,s reached 299$ @ Tongass Dock Store in Ketchikan ...
They , the Vibergs looked every bit as good as the Kulians I had looked at ...
IME they are fully as good and better for Alaska ...
I,ve wore quite a few pair of griffin cork boots and Wesco rivited corks , but I have seen too many guys get hurt and almost killed from dull corks to not use screw in ....
The Vibergs have stainless steel nuts in the sole and the Urethane sole seems to be indestructible ,and I got mine 5 years ago .... granted I only have about 7 months in them in that time but they are flat out the best corks I have wore .....


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## tramp bushler (May 18, 2008)

*Different gear*



helen said:


> Here's an odd question, if money weren't an issue, what would lumbermen on the west coast prefer to use. I'm refering to everything from boots to clothes to saws to trucks.
> This is person equipment,not company issue.
> Actually while I'm at it , what would Canadians prefer too. I ask because while touring Europe I saw a lumbering operation going on, & the men there were dressed almost like astronauts. I was told that's the law there. I don't see anything like that here (in PA).


.


Hi Helen ;; I,m new to this site but , I,m a timber beast in Southeast Alaska. 
I,ll share what we wear up here ...
Logging in Alaska is primarily divided into 2 catagories ,, .#1 The Coast , mainly Southeast
#2 the Interior

The Big timber grows in Southeast , but Afognak Is. and the South Central coast has some good Sitka Spruce , ,pretty limby tho 

The ground is usually steep to Very steep and full of holes , very broken up ...It,s not uncommon to have 80 foot long lays and 150 foot tall timber ..... This is a sub arctic rain forest .often times impassable jungle , that is home to brown bears that can and sometimes do weigh 1200-1500 lbs ....Black bears in alot of places also .... They all LOVE BAR OIL ....They drink it ...

.,. The stuff you saw the Europeans wearing usually is ok gear and they have to wear it ..........It works well for PRE COMMERCIAL TREE THINNING here.......
Most of it is too hot for working in the riggin or falling timber ..
If you want to read one of the best books about what we on the west coast [ proudly] consider the greatest places to log , read LIES , LOGS ,AND LOGGERS by Findley Hays ... Baileys sells it , they advertise on this site ....
Long posts are laborious and can get boring so I will address this in several posts ... 
earestly
Gumboot , the Tramp Bushler


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## Humptulips (May 19, 2008)

Gumboot,
Yea I worked in S.E. for a while, never as far north as you. I worked out of Port Alice and later Soda Bay. That's aroud Craig. I never saw any Viburgs at that time, about 17 18 years ago. Recently I looked at a pair but didn't think I could wear them because of my foot problem. I always liked the drive caulks and it's a misnomer to say they can't be replaced. They can. I do it myself. I hear you on the WESCOs though. Weren't able to replace them in the past. It seems like I see a lot of shoes with spring heels now. Those are out for me as I just can't make them work with my spurs.
Truth is I'm about at the end of my logging career so I'll probably never see the S.E. again as a logger. I did get a lot of good stories out of my time up there though. I heard there are a lot of changes. Someone told me they even closed down the Focsle Bar(SP).


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## abohac (May 19, 2008)

Humptulips said:


> I love my Kulien caulks but they are very expensive. Other then that just the standard hickory shirt, overalls, suspenders and white ox gloves and don't give me one of those plastic hats. I've been wearing a tin hat to long to change. Still got my 6 point.
> I have my preferences on rigging too but you use what the company has. I'd rather have a ropemaster over a young any day but you usually get youngs, cheaper you know.



Doesn't anyone wear Danner boots out there? I'm not a logger but Im' a farmer, firewood cutter and hunter and pretty darned hard on shoes(I don't grease mine like I should either). I bought Danner's from Cabela's and have been really happy with them (don't know if they make those spiked things you guys wear - they look like they'd make my feet hurt). But I think Danner boot are made in Oregon somewhere.


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## tramp bushler (May 19, 2008)

*Port Alice and Soda Bay ..*

Hump ;; I set chokers and chased in Port Alice in 84 ,for El Capitan Logging , [ an L P company ]....Carlisle Preston was the Hook tender and Del Sellards was pullin riggin ..................I used to tramp alot I,ve worked in more than half the camps in Alaska...I always wanted to get to Brown bear country so I tramped out of Rowan Bay on Kuiu Is. in 85 and went to Sitka ,,,,,It was a great place back then ...The mills were still there ... I never worked in Soda Bay ...

...............Danner used to , a long time ago make a real pair of corks with drive in corks ,, I never saw a pair with screw ins ....They went to makeing hunting and hikeing boots which wern,t half tough enough for falliung timber or logging on steep ground in the rain ....Hoffman,s did resole some Danners with a neoprene sole with screw in corks ...For most guys they would runn over pretty quick ..........

The first pair of Vibergs that I ever was in Coffman Cove , where I cut timber for a few years ....A guy from Washington had them ....
Many of their models have Asiatic Water Buffalo hide leather ... The stuff is amazing ......Unbelievably tough and wear resistant .. 

Hellen ... One of the most important things to know about Loggers in Alaska ,BC and the Pacific N.W. is , we wear pants with button on suspenders ....And we cut the cuff off the bottoms before we wear them in the brush ....

Easy way to get killed , leave the cuff in your riggin pants ...


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## abohac (May 19, 2008)

tramp bushler said:


> Hump ;; I set chokers and chased in Port Alice in 84 ,for El Capitan Logging , [ an L P company ]....Carlisle Preston was the Hook tender and Del Sellards was pullin riggin ..................I used to tramp alot I,ve worked in more than half the camps in Alaska...I always wanted to get to Brown bear country so I tramped out of Rowan Bay on Kuiu Is. in 85 and went to Sitka ,,,,,It was a great place back then ...The mills were still there ... I never worked in Soda Bay ...
> 
> ...............Danner used to , a long time ago make a real pair of corks with drive in corks ,, I never saw a pair with screw ins ....They went to makeing hunting and hikeing boots which wern,t half tough enough for falliung timber or logging on steep ground in the rain ....Hoffman,s did resole some Danners with a neoprene sole with screw in corks ...For most guys they would runn over pretty quick ..........
> 
> ...



Just curious. The Danner boots I have are the best shoes I've ever owned. Put two soles on them now but are about shot.


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## slowp (May 19, 2008)

Here are some pictures of local fashions. These are not the classic hickory shirt look, but rather the got up early and threw on work clothes look. 






This is the high visible style. 





This is the cheery autumn style, note the pastel sweatshirt.




This is the wintery anarchist style as modeled by one of those foresters who harass the loggers.


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## 2dogs (May 19, 2008)

That pastel shirt and green bucket SOOO don't go together. 

Nice winter look though. The hat and saw match


(We need a phtttt icon. Any ideas how?)


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## slowp (May 19, 2008)

I now have orange boots so next winter I'll be quite stylish unless there is a new look! If colors change, I'll have to do some serious duck taping!


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## 2FatGuys (May 19, 2008)

tramp bushler said:


> ... Logging in Alaska is primarily divided into 2 catagories ,, .#1 The Coast , mainly Southeast
> #2 the Interior
> 
> The Big timber grows in Southeast , but Afognak Is. and the South Central coast has some good Sitka Spruce , ,pretty limby tho
> ...



Gumboot - your description of SE brings back memories. I am in North Carolina, but have made several "mission trips" to Alaska to work on various projects. One of my trips was to a place not far from Ketchikan, in the Tongas. It was a camp called Orton Ranch on the Naha. I dropped my largest, oldest tree there. I will probably never get the chance to do that again. But it is realy cool to have lived in that area for a while and to be able to say that I have cut (responsibly) in the old growth timber.

My hat is off to you guys that have done, or are doing, that for a living. It is BEAUTIFUL country,but incredibly rough and rugged.


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## Humptulips (May 20, 2008)

Gumboot,
I logged the last timber LP had under contract at Port Alice. They tore the camp out after we left I heard. I was tending hook for a gypo contracting for LP. I can believe you never worked at Soda Bay. There wasn't much good timber there. We were logging on an island in the Bay out of a float camp. Another small gypo. The rest of the time I've never got far from Grays Harbor in WA.


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## tramp bushler (May 20, 2008)

*...Danners*



abohac said:


> Just curious. The Danner boots I have are the best shoes I've ever owned. Put two soles on them now but are about shot.





.....If you check out the Hoffman Boot co. web site....I think they have a number of Danner boots as Corks ... Their Line man and the model I think they call the Fire Line ....look like good boots ,, I think they are double vamped ,, If they were corked they would be like the old Danners ....Got to have corks on the coast of Alaska ....


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## slowp (May 20, 2008)

More on equipment:

Having a dirty pickup is not necessarily a sign of hating to wash it. That dust, mud, oil is an important tool for communication. One can write cheery messages to others on it, or as we did the other day, draw an arrow in the direction one has taken into the woods, with and approximate distance one can be found. The dirt on the outside will also camoflage any dings or dents one has gotten while say, drivng over fallen trees. 

It is important to keep the back full of "stuff". This is not "junk" but is stuff. One never knows when one will need something that is back there. Just yesterday, I was helping a tourista from Switzerland get her rental van unstuck from the snow. She used my shovel, and I, after seeing a bare patch of dirt under a tree, grabbed the pulaski and traffic cone. I stuffed a NO WOODCUTTING SIGN into the cone to plug up the hole, loosened up dirt with the pulaski, and then filled the cone with dirt. I packed it over to her van, threw the dirt under the wheels, and she got out. Now, I need to use the tailgate to teach tourists to read. Very few seem to be able to understand ROAD CLOSED BY SNOW AHEAD.


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## 2FatGuys (May 20, 2008)

slowp said:


> More on equipment:... It is important to keep the back full of "stuff". This is not "junk" but is stuff. One never knows when one will need something that is back there...



We used to have an old Stihl 009 top handle junker in the back of one of our trucks. One of our guys constantly wondered why we didn't throw it out. One day last week, we had to drop our log trailer to relocate the truck. He found out why we carry around that wheel chock that resembles a 009....


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## tramp bushler (May 21, 2008)

*Wrap handle bar power saws*

/ This is a west coast thing .. . I almost can,t run a real saw if it only has half its handle bar ....
How could any one run a fallin saw with out one is quite a ????? Steep ground , no where to stand to make a buck ,,,

I,ve had to face up too many trees holding the saw over my head and running it left handed .......

Heres something many won,t know .,,.,. Almost no fallers from Washington wear a saw pad on their suspenders ...
I have a couple pretty good scars on my neck from working in the riggin and packin a saw with no pad , and I hate burning my shoulder , I wear a pad ..


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## slowp (May 21, 2008)

tramp bushler said:


> /
> Heres something many won,t know .,,.,. Almost no fallers from Washington wear a saw pad on their suspenders ...
> I have a couple pretty good scars on my neck from working in the riggin and packin a saw with no pad , and I hate burning my shoulder , I wear a pad ..



They all wear them in this area. And we would be in Warshington.


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## tramp bushler (May 21, 2008)

*What town /area ??*

I haven,t been south of Carrol Inlet since 1982 , and didn,t travel around Washington much when I was there ..... Most of the cutters I worked with from Wash. were from Darrington , Morton , Mossy Rock, Chahalis and some from the Grays Harbor area ...

Unfortunitly in my mental geography Coos Bay is right near Vernonia, PL, Darrington , ect ... 

I thot it pretty dumb that they would cut up their guylines , tear holes in their shirt and rain gear and burn their shoulders just so they could think they looked tough ...:crazy1: 

Gumboot


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## slowp (May 21, 2008)

The area here is Chehalis, Napavine, Glenoma, Morton, Mossyrock, Randle, Packwood, Eatonville, etc. Maybe the ferries and airlines won't let them ship the suspender pads? I've wondered why nobody sews in pads on shirts, that way you'd have both shoulders padded and if one was bottom heavy, the addition of width to the shoulders would help to offset this figure flaw.  Same way with packing wire. Why guys don't use packboards, I won't even try to understand. It would be easier on the back AND shoulders. But they'd probably lose or break the packboard.


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## secureland (May 21, 2008)

I've been reading this thread, and was hoping that someone could please explain what the suspender pad is used for, and packwire too.

Thanks,
Bill


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## slowp (May 21, 2008)

Cutters/fallers carry their saws with the bar resting on the shoulder, bar pointing to the front, sawhead behind. It is easier than packing by the handle.
The pad protects the shoulder and also makes it more comfy.

Parts of the cable used for yarding have to be packed by people. The cable is coiled up and carried on/over the shoulder. It can weigh a lot more than I'd care to carry. They are also packing it through the brush (down timber) so that makes it even more of an adventure. I have a picture of a hooktender starting out from the landing on a beauty day. Of course, I can't find it now.


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## slowp (May 21, 2008)

I found it. He was packing the line up the hill-- they had downhill yarding to do. There was a nice trail to follow up to the ridge top for that setting. I've been along with the guys and they were packing rolls like this or blocks up a 90% slope. This is a previously posted picture.


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## secureland (May 21, 2008)

Nice picture... I didn't realize you guys got rain in the PNW.


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## 2dogs (May 22, 2008)

secureland said:


> Nice picture... I didn't realize you guys got rain in the PNW.



Those WA people are hogging all the rain! We need it down here in Collyfornia bad. The cows are going to be lining up at the soup kitchen here pretty quick and they aren't even Catholic.


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## Humptulips (May 22, 2008)

Slowp,
I've been tempted to use a packboard a few times when packing things like tree jacks. Mostly though coils, haulback blocks, straps and stuff like that fit real well on the shoulder and pack pretty good. You can also get rid of them better if you start to go down which can save you a blown knee or the like at times.
A few times in years past (not anymore) I used to hook two 15 inch youngs together at the goose neck and take off with them, usually when I had an audience. No sane person throws 150 pounds on their back and takes off unless trying to show off. Young and dumb!


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## slowp (May 22, 2008)

2dogs said:


> Those WA people are hogging all the rain! We need it down here in Collyfornia bad. The cows are going to be lining up at the soup kitchen here pretty quick and they aren't even Catholic.



That picture was taken in the lovely month of November. We had horizontal sleet and rain that day. But the worst day was Veteran's day. That hooktender and I were up on top of the ridge. On the way up, we discussed the need to embrace the weather. They were short handed because one guy quit due to the weather. The hooktender was looking up at the wildly swaying trees and trying to get me to do the same. I didn't dare or I might have run away from fear. 

On my way home, a big tree was across the short route. I tried to cut it out but it had a break in it, and the wood kept shifting and getting Twinkle stuck. I'm not a very good bucker either. I had my saw stuck with every wedge in the tree. I got the one cut through, then the next cut was doing the same thing and the wind was starting to blow again.... I gave up and went the long way around. I left a note for the crew but they had chains and chokers and guys who knew how to cut so they ignored the note and got the tree neatly out of the way. I tell people it is good to have logging going on all year because they clear the roads.


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