# Young Live Oak questionable crotch pictures Advise please



## ROOTSXROCKS (Feb 26, 2011)

I planted this Live oak 5 years ago it was a 2 inch cull I liked it because of the low branching and gave it a lot of attention root pruning the wrapped roots from its thirty gallon prison. I also used some samples of peat extract from a trade show that may have had something to do with its phenomenal growth . However I have been concerned about this one crotch and don't know what to do about it Both leaders are equally strong growing and appear to be heading in a nice balanced growth habit up top. Its to late to remove one without making for an Ugly Tree. I have thought it might be possible to alter this barks growth and get it to start seaming up better or perhaps plan and early Pin. I want to see this tree reach a ripe old age and have a lot of Charactor from the low branching, doing some cableing as needied to manipulate it and keep it securely balanced and off my house, I don,t care that the Drive will crack eventually I will change to pavers and go with the flow.
Live oaks are very strong but I have seen one that grew like this to a ripe old age of 200 or so before it snapped at this weak point.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Feb 27, 2011)

*Are there any tree experts left in the house*

I figured I would get all kinds of advice here maybe I am expecting it too soon


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Feb 27, 2011)

*My mistake I thought this was an arborist site*

hello :msp_flapper:


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## PinnaclePete (Mar 1, 2011)

You're right, those co-dominant stems will continue to force each other apart as they grow in diameter. Will they split? Maybe and maybe not. You can bolt a piece of all thread through to brace the union and later add support cables in the top.

The branch bark ridge (seam) you mentioned is the wood tissue of the stems pushing on each other. Below is a picture of what that union looks like on the inside - included bark with very little outer holding wood - thus the need for support.






You might also prune off that 2 or 3 inch limb at the base of the union, as it is also adding pressure to the crotch.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Mar 1, 2011)

*Thank you Pete*

I had been meaning to take these pictures and get advise for quite a while. I was beginning to wonder if all the real arborist had left the building. I know exactly what you are illustrating here. I have an Example myself. This tree limb was attached about 20 feet up in the air and that broken Crotch was well over 6X8 feet (see 6 foot chain link and 8 foot wall as reference ) It was holding an incredible amount of weight as it went horizontal for about 40 feet before diverging to spread over 100 feet perpendicular to the support collar that Broke.




I have studied this tree and many others watching over the years to see the results of my pruning and the expected regrowth. This peice of wood that still sits in my Garage awaiting inspiration is the heart of that break. Live oak is very dense already but the compression between these leaders cause this wood to be especially heavy and the grain contorted.










So much so that this Mallet I made has seen some severe abuse pounding pavers while barely getting a mark on it.






Originally I had planned to subdue one of the leaders or remove it altogether, but it just grew so damn fast that it is now a significant part of the canopy.
I have played with the Idea of Pinning it early with a big 1" SS pin I have on hand and allow for it to Grow into the Trunk but was pretty hesitant to do it just yet. 
I already expect I will Cable this tree significantly before I am too old to climb it as I am encouraging a lot of lateral growth and I know How Live oaks bow down with age. 
Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the smaller Branch collar, I was thinking that might be inhibiting the smooth integration of the two leaders wood by the nature of the collars habit and it was on the cut list. 

Do you think that Beyond that I can change this inclusive bark trend By any of these methods


Restricting one of those leaders by pruning it more.
regularly removing any dead cambium within the crevice.
Perhaps surgically attempting to go deeper and scrape the living outer cells to force scar tissue to weld the growth of the xylem back together ?


If I do decide to go ahead with the early Pinning Would I position the pin Just above the present gap and expect the Crotch to envelop it? 

It seems that higher support cables or pins might act as a fulcrum that would further push the two apart with motion from the top of the leaders. 

Another consideration I have is that really low leaders future. I have encouraged it from the beginning and it has achieved a position of dominance on that side of the tree, at present it runs pretty vertical By design in order to compete with the limbs over it However as it gains weigh I expect it to sag toward the house, this is the intent but it may require cable support from the inclusive leader as it is directly across from it and would be the natural choice.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Jun 26, 2011)

*So I see progress*

I tried an experiment to correct that inclusive bark, it seems to be working but I won't be able to tell for sure till another year or so.
I cleaned up the interior of this tree and did some corrective pruning, it is growing at an incredible rate. and I am trying to encourage horizontal structure for a more natural old growth look.
This major leader conflict has worried me so in order to make an attempt to force the two to grow as one I cleaned out the crevasse and then with a clean razor saw I cut into the living cambium inside the crotch and removed a very thin groove of xylem. 

The hope is that the healing scar tissue will come together and graft the leaders as a continuous wood and stop any further growth between the two that might keep pushing them apart. the best I can tell at this point it appears to be working so hopefully it will become a stronger connection. I won't remove it and it it doesn't look better in a couple of years I will add a pin or two before the crotch integrity is broken. I have already got a plan for future cabling, and lightning protection. Ill add some pictures shortly.


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## ROPECLIMBER (Mar 21, 2012)

*Included bark on live oaks*

Roots, the live oak is the strongest and most dense wood we have here, heaviest on the green log chart, the failed tree in the picture was way to far out of balance, your tree has the codomit stem in close, keep the structure trained in, so that the tree stays in balance. I agree with Pete except that codominate stems don't have a branch union and therefore don't form a BBR the ridge would be formed from the branch growth aganst a parent stem. Codominate stems are equal and therefore fight each other causing the inclusion.Two brace rods and continued structual pruning is probably all that will be necesarary, Live oaks are least suceptible to failure due to codominate stems and includid bark as you can see in your disection of the failed tree in the marbling they are very strong trees. and due to the denseness of the wood are much more forgiving, they used live oaks for ship masts because of there strength and tight growth patterns.
Paul

PS use of ridged cables limits the trees ability of natural sway and limits the development of reaction wood and creates failure at the atachment point, pruning for balance is a better bet, on the long failed tree in picture bracing and dynamic cabling could have saved the catosrophic failure


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