# chipper death



## RoyalTree

http://www.local10.com/news/1-dead-after-falling-into-wood-chipper/26625284


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## KenJax Tree

I gonna guess he used his foot or reached into the infeed chute to clear it instead of using a rake or broom.


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## sac-climber

Wow that's grizzly. You can actually see blood and stuff in the chips.

Last chance cables were missing as well ....OSHA isn't going to be happy about that.

Thoughts and prayers with the family.


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## Yellowdog

One of the reasons I sold my 20" chipper was because of laborers who just couldn't understand the power of these machines on hand-feed jobs. Despite training and pre-job instructions, even with seasoned tree guys, I'd see them reach into the chipper. I got tired of worrying about someone getting sucked through so I switched to smaller chipper. 

It's sad that someone has to die when it is 100% preventable if they would load from the side.


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## MasterBlaster

It's definitely NOT the chipper's fault!


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## 066blaster

I don't know too much about chippers. But I'm guessing it totally pulverized the guy. I'm mean these things don't stop do they? Horrible.


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## treesmith

Some people have to learn the hard way by getting smashed or thrown in the air, if they're lucky they don't get hurt too badly


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## KenJax Tree

066blaster said:


> I don't know too much about chippers. But I'm guessing it totally pulverized the guy. I'm mean these things don't stop do they? Horrible.


The RPM's never even dropped when he went through


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## Zale

Prayers for his family.


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## jomoco

Another chipper fatality today in Chandler Arizona, at a Chevy dealership.

That makes over 60 by my count, and climbing.

Kudos to Morbark for their safety system!

Not soon enough for the poor bloke in Chandler.

Condolences to his family, friends and coworkers.

jomoco


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## jomoco

Yup, hydraulically fed BC1500.

Morbark with their new safety system is the way to go for big hydro feeds.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...18/chandler-wood-chipper-death-abrk/15832727/

jomoco


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## derwoodii

jomoco said:


> Yup, hydraulically fed BC1500.
> 
> Morbark with their new safety system is the way to go for big hydro feeds.
> 
> http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...18/chandler-wood-chipper-death-abrk/15832727/
> 
> jomoco


Awful. Just about to purchase a bc1000 for crew, need to know how this occurred i cannot see if knee feed stop bar fitted on the shown fatal chipper


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## imagineero

derwoodii said:


> Awful. Just about to purchase a bc1000 for crew, need to know how this occurred i cannot see if knee feed stop bar fitted on the shown fatal chipper



If you haven't used one before I suggest you trial it before you buy. I used to run a bc1000 and was much happier after switching to a bandit 250xp. Pros for the bc1000 are the very low weight (2000kg) easy to tow, simple machine and tidy with all hoses hidden away, fuelsipper, holds it's resale value quite well. Cons are it's really more like. 9" than a 12, little underpowered, most seem to have issues with the feed switches and belt drive engagement system, parts are proprietary ($$$) and not always in stock, kind of expensive for what they are and you don't get a lot of hours out of them, the drum baffles let go usually before 3,000 hrs grenading the machine (about $10k repair), also single feed roller with no lift or crush. Most guys find the knee bar to be a pain in the ass. You can adjust the sensitivity with the switch on the side, branches trip it frequently. Some guys completely disconnect it. Kinda hard to see what's going on if you use the proprietary rubber feed chute curtains. They don't last long and are $$. You need to have them on for work cover as their oem. You can make a much better one from reinforced rubber from Clark rubber for less $ that will last a lot longer .

The bandit is kinda the opposite of the above. I'd still take the bandit 9" over the Vermeer bc1000. Bandit is generally better priced, lasts more hours, more robust, heavier, parts available everywhere for a reasonable price, good engine options, simple to work on and has dual rollers with lift and crush. 

The issue with the Vermeer is with it not having lift it's hard to get a log into the thing. You can slice the log at a 30 degree angle making a ramp for the roller to climb up (safest), try to quickly jamb a log in as a branch is going through (tricky) or try what most guys do which is very dangerous.... Push the log in and it kicks up but gets the roller up a little, then quickly try to kick/shove it a second time before the chute closes. If you've got a fair bit of log to chip and have 3 guys then one guy is on the feed bar, one feeds logs and one puts logs on the tray. If you can get the next log in before the chute closes you get less clogs/jambs because the next log pushes the last one into the drum. It saves having to start the whole "awwww **** how are we gonna get a log into this again?". It's really more a brush chipper (and quite a good one) but people use it as a tree chipper. 

There was an accident couple years ago with a Bc1000 here in aus. Guy was feeding logs and had gotten into the feed chute, standing on the chute so he could kick the logs in, due to the nature of trying to get a log started being tricky . He slipped, and lost both legs up to the knee.


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## derwoodii

Ta imagineero I got most of the need to know on the BC 1000 and its over suited to my needs.. I currently working with a 7inch and its more than enuff for tasks we take just limb brush and logs are left as fire wood..
I just like to know how this accident played out as to avoid same circumstance if it can be reproduced under proper correct operator use. Standing on the chute or disconnecting the knee bar stop,,,, well that goes beyond designed or instructed safe practice.


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## imagineero

Sounds like it'll be a great machine for you, it's nice and easy to tow though a little tricky to reverse due to the short draw bar. It's a huge step up from a 7" and you'll really notice the increase in productivity. No more cutting forks! With smaller stuff 2 or 3 guys can feed that machine as fast as they can and it keeps up.

From a safety perspective it's quite a safe machine, and since it's still not really a big machine it's kind of safer in that sense. The number 1 danger with these machines I see is guys trying to find a workaround to get logs to feed as I said. My suggestion is cut logs and large branches at a 45 degree angle, but be sure and feed them with the angle being a ramp for the roller, not the other way. Fed upside down, the branches will kick up violently and cause broken rib/jaws which has happened many times.

Having a good operator limbing up avoids many dangers at chipping time because the stuff is shaped right to easily get in the machine. When limbing try to cut limbs parallel to the main stem and flush cut, that makes the main stem smaller without subs and also naturally creates the angled cut you're looking for on the limbs. Lots of guys cut perpendicular to the limb which doesn't work out so great.

Be aware of the dangers of feeding larger (6"+) log sections (meaning stuff without leaves) into the machine if it has been cut perpendicular rather than at an angle. Due to the nature of the machine having a horizontal feed roller and no lift, it has a natural tendency to kick this stuff violently upward (broken ribs/jaws/fingers) or slam it down hard on the feed tray (broken fingers). This is especially a danger if you use the feed curtains and can't see exactly when the material is going to enter the roller. It's a bigger hazard for less experienced operators who often hold onto the log longer than needed and sometimes bed over heavier stuff while feeding thus putting themselves in the danger zone. More experienced operators tend to stand back/off to the side and often push with an open palm rather than fingers around/under the section being fed. Machines with lift don't have this danger as you can push the section past the rollers before closing them. Machines with vertical rollers tend to kick sideways instead which is a different problem.

Ways of reducing the risk are correct limbing, leaving the section longer then the feed tray (keeps operators hands out of crush zone) operator training, cutting angles rather the flush cutting. This becomes more true for sections at the limit of the machines capacity though it doesn't sound like that will be the case for you often.

If I were buying another of these machines, I'd cut an access hatch with a door in the chute near where it enters the machine. You'll be glad you had it many times over. I'd also keep one each of the tie rod ends for either end of the drive belt engaging arm (they're opposite threaded and unique) as they often snap without notice rendering the machine useless. Sharp blades significantly extend the life of the drum.


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## capetrees

I'm on my second bc1000 and have never had any issues with the machine. It's been a great machine compared to others in my area, one being a Morbark 12d (piece of crap) and a bandit 250 that's real heavy and not worth it's weight in scrap. The knee bar on the Vermeer is adjustable but hey, it does it's job, stopping the machine in times of trouble. The machine in the second story had no knee bar. As far as feeding the machine and the kick up by large logs, it's something you have to get used to. Learn to move away and feed it right or cut the angle if you have to. And it's all 12". I just had a followup interview with a customer rep asking how I like the machine. Told her I threw everything I could at it. Vines, bulky, leafy, maxed out logs, hardwood, pine. Nothing stopped it so far. Keep the drive belt tightened correctly and the blades sharp and you won't regret a bc1000. The parts issue must be an Aussie thing because the dealership I use here in the NE US gets me in and out quick and always has the parts I need on hand.


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## derwoodii

thanks all reply and yes getting the crew to tailor up the limbs just right is a chore i am doing ATM... they are very keen but green and i mutter and muse as watch them buck up limbs leaving twists hooks stubs and tails then struggle to feed it & not realizing the danger they put them in ,,,,, each day a new idea is offered and they take it well if i nicely show and tell..
the BC1000 still a way off likely new year but the seven inch is ideal training chipper right now


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## imagineero

There's a heap of chippers available at the moment used and maybe worth looking at if you're in the market. A lot of it seems to be in Vic. It's hard to get a good used bc1000 for less than $20k and a real tidy one is closer to 30. There's a heap of used bandits and austchips around for half that.


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## Sbrince77

derwoodii said:


> Awful. Just about to purchase a bc1000 for crew, need to know how this occurred i cannot see if knee feed stop bar fitted on the shown fatal chipper


Bc1000 and bc1500 are equipped with 2 safety stop bars


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## TheShanks

derwoodii said:


> Awful. Just about to purchase a bc1000 for crew, need to know how this occurred i cannot see if knee feed stop bar fitted on the shown fatal chipper



I've been running a brand new BC1000XL for a couple months. I'm not saying that a child could use it safely, but the knee bar and hand bar are extremely sensitive. Plenty of times a small branch will tag it and hault it, or Ill brush the bar with my leg feeding stuff in and it will stop it and set of the flashy light to say its stopped feeding. When that happens you have to reach around and tap the all good button on the side. 

Its 100x safter than the chuck and ducks. But that being said still a very dangerous bit of machinery. My thoughts to the family's.


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## derwoodii

TheShanks said:


> I've been running a brand new BC1000XL for a couple months. I'm not saying that a child could use it safely, but the knee bar and hand bar are extremely sensitive. Plenty of times a small branch will tag it and hault it, or Ill brush the bar with my leg feeding stuff in and it will stop it and set of the flashy light to say its stopped feeding. When that happens you have to reach around and tap the all good button on the side.
> 
> Its 100x safter than the chuck and ducks. But that being said still a very dangerous bit of machinery. My thoughts to the family's.




ta the feed back Sbrince77 and shanks, we got a BC 1200 in the end and its safety systems are good much or just the same as Bc 1000 the knee feed bar works well and can be adjusted to suit needs as we have a winch on our model.. tapping that button a small hassle compared to,,,,, well lets not think bout it

ah hint to avoid a bruise, don't be at the control panel when your work mate closes the chippa tray


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## jomoco

derwoodii said:


> tapping that button a small hassle compared to,,,,, well lets not think bout it



Too bad Peter Gerstenberger, Tom Dunlap, Mark Chisholm, or even the bloody Brits value treeworker lives enough to regulate a friggin dragster chipper!

You make a mistake amigo, adios!

But when climber's bump their precious little heads?

Call the Natnl guard, get the governor on the phone! Was a second qualified worker at hand?

Men of principle?

Who wants their sons n daughters chipped alive in the arborist industry?

jomoco


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## hseII

jomoco said:


> Too bad Peter Gerstenberger, Tom Dunlap, Mark Chisholm, or even the bloody Brits value treeworker lives enough to regulate a friggin dragster chipper!
> 
> You make a mistake amigo, adios!
> 
> But when climber's bump their precious little heads?
> 
> Call the Natnl guard, get the governor on the phone!
> 
> Men of principle?
> 
> Who wants their sons n daughters chipped alive in the arborist industry?
> 
> jomoco


God Forbid anyone take personal responsibility for their actions: oh wait, you don't believe in him either.


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## jomoco

Yeah, like operating a 120 ton crane on the job solo right?

Size, capacity and horsepower of equipment is no gauge of how many workers are needed to operate it safely?

Tell me more einstein?

jomoco


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## jomoco

Sure they'll admit that hand feeding a BC2000 hydraulically fed whole tree chipper's not a good idea!

But to actually heed the advice and recommendations of the OSHA and FACE officers who have to cleanup after these WTC fatalities, and establish a two man minimum rule for safe operation of chippers over a ten inch capacity?

Nope! Let the chipping alive of treeworker's recruited that morning in the Walmart parking lot for forty bucks a day continue!

Such care for treeworker's lives, it kinda chokes me up, makes me wanna puke.

jomoco


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## hseII

jomoco said:


> Yeah, like operating a 120 ton crane on the job solo right?
> 
> Size, capacity and horsepower of equipment is no gauge of how many workers are needed to operate it safely?
> 
> Tell me more einstein?
> 
> jomoco


Left turn clide.

Who would allow someone to operate any crane solo?

The boss should gauge what's needed for a job; that's part of the job of a white hat.

Not to mention it's illegal to operate a crane without a flagger, rigger, and someone operating the tag lines on some jobs.

Way to derail a serious topic.


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## jomoco

hseII said:


> Left turn clide.
> 
> Who would allow someone to operate any crane solo?



Perfectly legal in all states as long as the crane's under a 75 ton capacity!

Gettin my drift yet einstein?

jomoco


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## hseII

jomoco said:


> Perfectly legal in all states as long as the crane's under a 75 ton capacity!
> 
> Gettin my drift yet einstein?
> 
> jomoco


Notice I said some, but not typically in our world.
Besides, it's just a good or safe practice.

And that shouldn't be mandated, it should be encouraged and enforced, by the company representatives: you know, self responsibility. 
Not what the government was intended for.

Edit: 
must you be so condescending?

You seem intelligent enough, sometimes, but when you turn that on, everyone else turns you off: don't matter if you were actually going to say something worth listening to.


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## jomoco

hseII said:


> Notice I said some, but not typically in our world.
> Besides, it's just a good or safe practice.
> 
> And that shouldn't be mandated, it should be encouraged and enforced, by the company representatives: you know, self responsibility.
> Not what the government was intended for.



BS my friend, it's exactly what OSHA was created to prevent, unnecessary death on the job because it saved the employer the cost of having a second qualified worker present.

Kinda like friggin climbers who bump their heads, according to TCIA, ISA etc.

Climbers are special, groundies, not so much!

Buncha jerks...

jomoco


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## hseII

jomoco said:


> BS my friend, it's exactly what OSHA was created to prevent, unnecessary death on the job because it saved the employer the cost of having a second qualified worker present.
> 
> Kinda like friggin climbers who bump their heads, according to TCIA, ISA etc.
> 
> Climbers are special, groundies, not so much!
> 
> Buncha jerks...
> 
> jomoco


No One on the job is more important than the other: maybe we look at stuff differently, but it's not BS: it's getting your people to care enough about what they are doing and care about the guy or gal beside them enough to stop them if they are about to mess up.

Sure there are those that don't care, or don't listen, but if that attitude isn't tolerated , then those will either adjust or leave.

No job is worth just 1 man not getting to go home, and the cost of insurance and accidents are finally driving that logic home.


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## jomoco

Tell it to Peter, Tom n Mark friend, 60 treeworkers eaten alive n counting...

jomoco


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## hseII

jomoco said:


> Tell it to Peter, Tom n Mark friend, 60 treeworkers eaten alive n counting...
> 
> jomoco


You can't tell anything to them or their families: and that's a Chitty situation to be in on both ends of the phone. 

I agree, safety is very important.

But, OSHA or ANSI, or any other alphabet agency don't mean a mountain of dung unless the people on the ground, on the job, buy into the mentality of doing it as safe as possible, and doing the job right the first time.

And Every fine in the world isn't going to change that.


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## jomoco

Time will tell.

In an extremely unflattering and embarrassing sense for some folks.

Unfortunately.

jomoco


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## Stihlmadd

jomoco said:


> Tell it to Peter, Tom n Mark


sorry jomoco not getting it? why these guys that you are repeating the names of in association with chipper safety ?
it's not that I disagree with your logic about size of equipment and staffing policies, personally don't reason with why someone would need a 20 inch chipper to do street pruning work total overkill when a 9 inch would be more than adequate for the task.
anyways one death a year is not acceptable let alone 60 but what have those three blokes got going that links them to chipper safety?


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## jomoco

It's like this, Peter's the grand poohbah of safety at TCIA, and he's the bloke who says that while feeding a whole tree chipper that's got 300 hp, like the Deere powered Hurricane 2400, is not a good idea in terms of operator safety?

He doesn't feel that the danger posed to life n limb of the chipper operator warrants a two man minimum for operating chipper's of that capacity, 24 inch!

And what's more? Tom, Mark n even Steve across the pond, toe Peter's line subserviently enough to lock down my threads on this very subject.

That's the extent of their valuation of Groundie's who feed big chippers.

jomoco


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## treesmith

Fed a 24" vermeer before, that thing was frickin nasty, a couple had already been smashed by it or throw in the air, the idiot supervisor sent us out on small removals and street tree pruning one day and I felt lucky to get home. The company's standard practice was using 18" winch chippers on street tree pruning, at a proper arb company now and away from that bunch of charlies


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## Danial Thomas

OMG its scared 
RIP


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## jefflovstrom

Danial Thomas said:


> OMG its scared
> RIP



You must be a 'Troll',,,
Jeff


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## Jack Evans

Kind of makes me glad we generally use small chippers over this side of the pond


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## ropensaddle

TheShanks said:


> I've been running a brand new BC1000XL for a couple months. I'm not saying that a child could use it safely, but the knee bar and hand bar are extremely sensitive. Plenty of times a small branch will tag it and hault it, or Ill brush the bar with my leg feeding stuff in and it will stop it and set of the flashy light to say its stopped feeding. When that happens you have to reach around and tap the all good button on the side.
> 
> Its 100x safter than the chuck and ducks. But that being said still a very dangerous bit of machinery. My thoughts to the family's.


Not one, I repeat not one fatal accident I ever found using a chuck n duck. I think you need to investigate your 100x statement more careful. Btw I think a whoopazz chipper chuck n duck for the northern crowd is more efficient for brush than any chipper other than a tub grinder etc. Reason no waiting in line period, five men can feed them all day; never standing to wait on rollers to feed through. Also most durable chippers ever made less moving parts to wear out!


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## derwoodii

ropensaddle said:


> Not one, I repeat not one fatal accident I ever found using a chuck n duck. I think you need to investigate your 100x statement more careful. Btw I think a whoopazz chipper chuck n duck for the northern crowd is more efficient for brush than any chipper other than a tub grinder etc. Reason no waiting in line period, five men can feed them all day; never standing to wait on rollers to feed through. Also most durable chippers ever made less moving parts to wear out!




yes interesting observation Ropey I not research or examined the claim of low or zero fatal harm from duck n chuck but may spend some time to check the data but my memory and belief is that your right . But why how hmm,,,, a quick think is duck chucks demand your care and concentration as any opsy will hurt bad... what i,m saying is you wont see a bloke deep inside the feed tray of D&C even the most foolish would know it has no mercy if your grabbed...where as the roller feed chippers you get this false sense you can beat the odds be quicker than the feed speed and have a stop reverse bar as back up.


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## ropensaddle

derwoodii said:


> yes interesting observation Ropey I not research or examined the claim of low or zero fatal harm from duck n chuck but may spend some time to check the data but my memory and belief is that your right . But why how hmm,,,, a quick think is duck chucks demand your care and concentration as any opsy will hurt bad... what i,m saying is you wont see a bloke deep inside the feed tray of D&C even the most foolish would know it has no mercy if your grabbed...where as the roller feed chippers you get this false sense you can beat the odds be quicker than the feed speed and have a stop reverse bar as back up.


Well three things make a whupazz chipper much easier on any operator 1 the ability to throw a limb 2 the abilty to cut brush correctly 3 A shove stick made from a limb to push the occasional nasty through. The truth is; the reason whupazz get a bad name is the occasional hand sting or whipped earlobe but I get neither as I know how to operate mine. I know john Paul researched it and said same thing I said. I do think your right about the concentration thing but for me safety is not the biggest factor why I like mine, durability is. Slow feed is nice when it comes to locust or osage but I can chip even them without too much whimpering.


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