# Plunge cut with trigger



## beastmaster (Apr 14, 2017)

Some may remember my rant on the mandatory plunge cut with a trigger thats required for some of my jobs.
Well after using it for a while I've changed my veiw some. The object of the cut is to allow the feller to get a way from the tree before it falls.
Recently we were falling a large fir tree. It was about 10 ft from a house. Tree was about 100ft tall and 38 dbh. There was a rope in it. And it was hooked to a 5 to 1.
The face cut put in. Then it was plunged cut with a 2 in. hinge and a 4 inch trigger was made. The trigger was cut the feller stepped a way from the tree. While safely away from tree the command was yelled pull.
The tree started barber chairing. There was a basal tie in that held it or slowed it down. It looked like the back was going to hit the house then in the wink of an eye it split fell maybe 30 degrees to the right of where it was suppose to. It jumped 4 ft to the left of the stump. Man it could of ruined our day for sure if we hadn't been safely away.


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## ksvanbrunt (Apr 18, 2017)

Surprised there arent more responses to this.
Glad nobody was injured. Potentially too much force on the 5:1? Hope you took pictures and documented for future education regarding the bore release


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## Zale (Apr 18, 2017)

Glad your safe. Sounds like too much pull?


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## Daniel Zimbrich (Aug 11, 2017)

Newb here, what is a trigger? Maybe I know what it is but confused by the terminology. Glad that worked out for you.
Thanks
Dan


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## Zale (Aug 11, 2017)

Daniel Zimbrich said:


> Newb here, what is a trigger? Maybe I know what it is but confused by the terminology. Glad that worked out for you.
> Thanks
> Dan



Last cut on the back of the tree.


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## Catfish Hunter (Aug 23, 2017)

I was wondering if the 2" hinge is too much especially with the 5 to 1?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## beastmaster (Aug 24, 2017)

Catfish Hunter said:


> I was wondering if the 2" hinge is too much especially with the 5 to 1?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No not at all minimum 4 inches on any trigger. It'll pop.


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## beastmaster (Aug 24, 2017)

Oh im sorry i thought you ment on the trigger. Make the same hinge you'd always use.


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## Trx250r180 (Aug 24, 2017)

Is there a reason cant just use reg back cut with wedges ? Was it rotted in the center ?


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## JRoland (Sep 11, 2017)

Trx250r180 said:


> Is there a reason cant just use reg back cut with wedges ? Was it rotted in the center ?


At the job he was on, any tree over 10 feet tall had to have a rope in it, any tree over 12" DBH has to be bore cut with a trigger.


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## Climb Higher (Sep 26, 2017)

Like many I was taught a progressive back cut with wedges, only used plunge for heavy leaners. Just attended a professional timber harvester class here in Missouri though where the plunge with trigger is the standard, used on most every tree. Very interesting, possible pro and cons running thru my head after the class. Their logic is that most all dangerous situations do not start until the tree begins to move and with the plunge / trigger method the feller is 2 or 3 big steps away from the tree when it is "released' via the trigger. Widow makers falling typically strike fellers in that 10" near trunk radius, barber chairs less deadly if you are already running thru the woods vs knelt down next to the tree still hinge trimming and as yet unaware of the first signs of movement. 

So thats all good and well, but I do miss the feedback that the progressive back cut and wedges offer. Midcourse adjustments like wedging one side a bit more, watching the wedges for droop or looseness that would indicate crown movement, etc. With plunge cut method you do your homework and then hit the launch button and with a loud pop it all either works or doesn't. 

Wedges are often used with the plunge, to counteract tree lean vs intended fall but thats a bit interesting too, how many whacks with axe to drive that wedge? will the hinge or trigger break with too much wedge pressure, will it be ineffective with too little. With typical back cut and wedging its a progressive dance, adjusting as you go. 

Anyway, new at this one as a standard. Safer, i got to think it is, great for pro loggers, for guys who need the utmost accuracy in suburberbs, maybe using ropes too, etc.... is it the best some or all of the time? Appreciate thoughts here, best wishes.


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## Marshy (Sep 26, 2017)

I don't like to use a plunge and trigger if the tree is neutral and has no committed lean. The risk of crown movement and a chair is low. I like the ability to use the progressive back cut and wedges to steer a tree. Like you said, the tree has to be large enough also or it gets crowded. If it's leaning in the desired direction of fall and I plunge cut I'll back bar right through the trigger. If it's a heavy lean then I'll come out of the cut and come from behind. Giggidy.

We had a really good thread discussion on learner's and bore cutting. If I can find it I'll share.


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## ATH (Sep 26, 2017)

It is nothing terribly new. Soren Eriksson was teaching Game of Logging all over the place 25-30+ years ago... (Probably longer than 25 as I was first introduced to it 20 years ago). But unless you've been to an organized 3rd party training or worked for somebody who has......


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## Climb Higher (Sep 26, 2017)

Hey Marshy, appreciate the thread reference, look forward to reading comments there. I am a best practices junky I guess, always ejoyed learning optimal ways to do stuff. Share your approach...

And yes, I believe Sren was the Johnny Appleseed of this plunge and trigger every tree approach, the guy got around it seams ;-)


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## Marshy (Sep 27, 2017)

The thread title was barber chair but plunge cutting was discussed in great length as a method to prevent chair. There are 30 some pages, not all of it is quality content (surprise) but I bet there are some good learnings in it.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/barber-chair.304946/


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## Marshy (Sep 27, 2017)

Another tip for you. Cut your trigger below the plunge cut. If the tree is a leaner and decides to go before your through your trigger then the saw is going with the tree. Also, cut your trigger flat like you would any other back cut.


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## Climb Higher (Sep 27, 2017)

Good tip of trigger construction, that was not in the class but smart, now part of my GOL plunge. Thanks for the thread too ;-)


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## Marshy (Sep 27, 2017)

Yes, at the same plane as your plunge or below. There use to be a video of a member who cut above the plunge and it threw his saw. Smash


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## Trx250r180 (Sep 27, 2017)

I can not ever remember any tree i had to bore cut to fall it unless the core was rotten ,i do bore in when on the ground to prevent pinch though ,if they are a leaning hardwood ,i just coos bay triangle cut them .


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## beastmaster (Sep 27, 2017)

The bore cut was Traditionally used on leaners, but its use in falling healthy straight up trees is new at lest to me. I took offence when it was forced on me, but grew on me with use. It combined with a 70/90 face cut(to keep the tree on the stump) is a big leap in safety.
Your trigger should be cut 5 or 6 inches under your plunge cut.
Another kind of Unorthodox thing is wedging over a tree. A slot is cut with the tip of your bar(plunged)underneath your back cut. You can get pretty creative this way to redirect the direction and lean of a tree.
I don't use this all the time put it has a time and place. In 20 years it'll probably be the primary cut used in dropping conifers.


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## beastmaster (Sep 27, 2017)

A use i found for a triggered bore cut, that works pretty impressive is a jump cut for taking a top. A deep narrow face cut, a plunge cut with a trigger. Have them put a lot of pull on the tipping line, hit that trigger and that baby will sail.


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## chipper1 (Sep 27, 2017)

How about way away if you have a piece of equipment, which many guys do.
Video even says it was popularized through the game of logging training.


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## beastmaster (Sep 28, 2017)

chipper1 said:


> How about way away if you have a piece of equipment, which many guys do.
> Video even says it was popularized through the game of logging training.




Thats a monster trigger. We leave maybe 10 inches. And often on one side or the other. Depending on your escape rout.


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## Marshy (Sep 28, 2017)

beastmaster said:


> Thats a monster trigger. We leave maybe 10 inches. And often on one side or the other. Depending on your escape rout.


That's a step cut, not a bore cut with a trigger. Different purpose, different cut.


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## ChipChomper (Nov 26, 2017)

beastmaster said:


> Another kind of Unorthodox thing is wedging over a tree. A slot is cut with the tip of your bar(plunged)underneath your back cut. You can get pretty creative this way to redirect the direction and lean of a tree.



beastmaster, is there a video or diagram of this somewhere?


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## Joe Masters (Aug 21, 2019)

Marshy said:


> Another tip for you. Cut your trigger below the plunge cut. If the tree is a leaner and decides to go before your through your trigger then the saw is going with the tree. Also, cut your trigger flat like you would any other back cut.



I don't understand. If the trigger cut is below the bore cut, wouldn't that make it below the face notch? Are you saying in between the two? Beastmaster is suggesting 5-6 inches below. 
How do you control the fell with a back cut that low?


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## Marshy (Aug 21, 2019)

Joe Masters said:


> I don't understand. If the trigger cut is below the bore cut, wouldn't that make it below the face notch? Are you saying in between the two? Beastmaster is suggesting 5-6 inches below.
> How do you control the fell with a back cut that low?


The cut being shown in that video posted by Chipper is a step cut and has a different purpose than a bore cut. The purpose of that step cut is for the back cut to be lower than your face cut. Its used when pulling or pushing over a tree. If you use a traditional conventional or Humboldt you can push the tree off the stump without tipping the crown. With the back cut stepped down below the face the tree cannot be pushed through the hinge wood and off the stump, which could make the tree fall back on the equipment operator or away from the pull line if not set high enough to tip the tree.

When I mentioned cutting the trigger below the back cut it doesn't mean that the bore cut us made below the face. The bore is made like normal, either flush or with a stump shot. When you pull out of the bore cut and go to cut the trigger from the backside just move down an inch or more. That way if the tree pulls before you completely sever the trigger it doesn't take the saw with it.


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## MattBanchero (Aug 28, 2019)

beastmaster said:


> Some may remember my rant on the mandatory plunge cut with a trigger thats required for some of my jobs.
> Well after using it for a while I've changed my veiw some. The object of the cut is to allow the feller to get a way from the tree before it falls.
> Recently we were falling a large fir tree. It was about 10 ft from a house. Tree was about 100ft tall and 38 dbh. There was a rope in it. And it was hooked to a 5 to 1.
> The face cut put in. Then it was plunged cut with a 2 in. hinge and a 4 inch trigger was made. The trigger was cut the feller stepped a way from the tree. While safely away from tree the command was yelled pull.
> The tree started barber chairing. There was a basal tie in that held it or slowed it down. It looked like the back was going to hit the house then in the wink of an eye it split fell maybe 30 degrees to the right of where it was suppose to. It jumped 4 ft to the left of the stump. Man it could of ruined our day for sure if we hadn't been safely away.




If you hit a wind check just right I could see this happening, but my guess is the corners of your face cut weren't matched up. I bore cut almost everything big enough to stick a chainsaw into and it's by far the most reliable way I've found to put trees on the ground. 

I like to use bore cuts for big tops, with a narrow humboldt cut. You can throw a huge top and not get tossed around if you leave a very thin hinge.


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## MattBanchero (Aug 28, 2019)

Plunge and trigger tops, jumping them over a fence. Notice the trunk doesn’t bounce around.


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## Climb Higher (Jan 29, 2020)

We were taught trigger thickness at 10% of DBH, that has worked well so far. Also taught an upward cut to release trigger but near level has been working well. 

On the barber chair, my guess would also be that the 5 to 1 created a leaner. We do not impart tension until wedges are in and sawyer is away.

Great thread thanks


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