# Chainsaw Mill with MS660



## jonesie (Feb 3, 2009)

Picking up my 660 tomorrow, and planning on getting a chainsaw mill shortly. Should I go with a granberg chainsaw mill, and if so, what size? I'm just getting into this so any help would be great. I'm also confused about the ripping chain, should I go through granberg? 

Also, I have access to some good size cedars, are they good for milling? I'm going to build a small cabin with some rough cut stuff, what would the cedar be good for?

Thanks guys.


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## BobL (Feb 3, 2009)

Welcome to the fun-house Jonesie.

Especially for a first time mill, granberg are a well made, easy to use and you won't have many problems. However there other mills out there you could take a look at.

Mill size depends upon bar size and log size. If you are milling 30" or less diam logs I would go with a 36" mill. If you are milling greater that this then you will need to adjust mill length to suit. If you are milling different sizes of logs and can afford it, you could consider buying the basic mill set and two sets of rails, one for smaller logs and one for larger logs.


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## excess650 (Feb 3, 2009)

You can mill with semi chisel chain, full comp, skip, or full skip, or use milling/ripping chain. It depends upon how big the wood is, how powerful your saw is and whether softwood or hardwood. I would suggest starting with full comp semi chisel. It can be resharpened to milling chain.

As for mill size, again, it depends upon the size of wood to be milled. The 36" Alaskan will yield about 34" maximum cut with a 42" bar. Add in the fact that a 30" log will yield about 21" square cant(70%). You can still mill larger logs, but may require some added steps. With the addition of a Granberg Mini Mill, you could make a top cut with the Alaskan, and then square the sides with the Mini Mill, and then even make a vertical center cut to split the log in two.

A 660 is a nice saw. It has an excellent power to weight ratio, and will do fine on the mill. Stihl lists bars up to 36", but Oregon makes a 42" that will fit. 3/8" pitch chain is a good size for the 660, coupled with a 7 pin rim sprocket. That 42" Oregon bar is .063 gauge, and Stihl makes 16"-36" bars in both .050" and .063".

I bought the 24" mill to start, and added 36" rails later. My inital though was that I wasn't likely to encounter much wood bigger than 24". After milling with both 24" rails, and 36" adjusted to 30", I find the smaller 24" far more handy. I felt like I needed help when using a 36" bar on 30" wood. 

With bars longer than 30" it might be a good idea to have the auxiliary oiler. Stihl does make a higher output oil pump for the 660, but I'm not so sure that the standard pump and axuiliary oiler wouldn't be better. I seem to get enough oil to my 36" bar and chain, but think a little more would be better.

It would be a good idea to run at least several tanks through a new saw prior to putting it on the mill. Milling is tough duty for the saw. Likewise, using a mix ratio lower than 50-1. I've used 40-1 and like it. Also, richening the high speed mixture will help the saw run cooler. I've seen reference to tuning back from 12,500 to 11,500 for milling.

18" boards will cut much quicker than 30" boards, and still look impressive.

As for cedar, if its rot and bug resistant, you could use it for most everything in a cabin.

Have fun and be safe!


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## dustytools (Feb 3, 2009)

excess650 said:


> You can mill with semi chisel chain, full comp, skip, or full skip, or use milling/ripping chain. It depends upon how big the wood is, how powerful your saw is and whether softwood or hardwood. I would suggest starting with full comp semi chisel. It can be resharpened to milling chain.
> 
> As for mill size, again, it depends upon the size of wood to be milled. The 36" Alaskan will yield about 34" maximum cut with a 42" bar. Add in the fact that a 30" log will yield about 21" square cant(70%). You can still mill larger logs, but may require some added steps. With the addition of a Granberg Mini Mill, you could make a top cut with the Alaskan, and then square the sides with the Mini Mill, and then even make a vertical center cut to split the log in two.
> 
> ...



Excellent post!


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## BobL (Feb 3, 2009)

dustytools said:


> Excellent post!



I Agree






I reckon our forum posts are so much betterer than those in the other forums!


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## excess650 (Feb 3, 2009)

BobL said:


> I Agree
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bob,
You are THE MAN here. I always enjoy your posts and seeing your pictures. Your experience gives the rest of us ideas, and shortens our learning curves. 

I'm gonna try to mount some wheels on the inboard guide of my Alaskan, and the idea came from YOU!:yourock:


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## BlueRider (Feb 3, 2009)

Good advise so far. For chain it is hard to beat Bailey's woodsman pro ripping chain. Bailey's is a site sponsor and their prices are hard to beat, even with shipping charges added. Their ripping chain is full comp, simi chisel, made by carlton and its already modified for milling.

I feel that the actual mix ratio is not as critical as the oil used. look for a high quality full sythetic and don't shop by price. Stihl makes some top notch mix oils, I'm partial to their HP Ultra and I run it at 50:1. I am probably one of the few guys on this forum milling with a 50:1 ratio but I have been doing it since 1994 after talking with a stihl gold tech.


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## Zodiac45 (Feb 3, 2009)

BlueRider said:


> Good advise so far. For chain it is hard to beat Bailey's woodsman pro ripping chain. Bailey's is a site sponsor and their prices are hard to beat, even with shipping charges added. Their ripping chain is full comp, simi chisel, made by carlton and its already modified for milling.
> 
> I feel that the actual mix ratio is not as critical as the oil used. look for a high quality full sythetic and don't shop by price. Stihl makes some top notch mix oils, I'm partial to their HP Ultra and I run it at 50:1. I am probably one of the few guys on this forum milling with a 50:1 ratio but I have been doing it since 1994 after talking with a stihl gold tech.



While I mix a 40/1 (because I have some older saws) I really don't think that it's any problem for you too run the 50/1 mix. Whats more important is that your saw's carb is tuned properly and if anything tending towards the rich side on the H. Also that you give the saw a proper cool (let it idle) down after a long slog helps too.


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## jonesie (Feb 3, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice, I'm thinking of getting the smaller mill to start out with and I'll see how that works out. Is the 660 out of the box good to go for milling or do I need to mod it somehow? Thanks again.


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## hazard (Feb 3, 2009)

I have a stihl 066 with the granberg mill and using a 36" bar. I have granberg ripping chain. I would add an auxiliary oilier and get an extra center brace. I recently added a handle for my right hand. I haven't had a chance to try the handle out yet.

Doing this will kick the crap out of you. Be in shape and cut downhill

Chris


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## Zodiac45 (Feb 3, 2009)

jonesie said:


> Thanks for all the advice, I'm thinking of getting the smaller mill to start out with and I'll see how that works out. Is the 660 out of the box good to go for milling or do I need to mod it somehow? Thanks again.



I think I would break it in a little before going straight too milling. Run 5-10 tanks through it bucking logs and the like. After that make sure it's rich enough on the H screw (4 cycling a hair) and commence too milling.


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## excess650 (Feb 3, 2009)

jonesie said:


> Thanks for all the advice, I'm thinking of getting the smaller mill to start out with and I'll see how that works out. Is the 660 out of the box good to go for milling or do I need to mod it somehow? Thanks again.



The 660 should be good out of the box except for tuning rich, and maybe adding a dual port muffler cover. Turn the oiler UP.

Stihl chains are the best that I've run as they seem to stay sharp longer. Don't be afraid to use a regular chain to get started, and maybe you'll be satisfied enough to not worry about milling/ripping chain.






This hemlock was my first attempt at milling. I cut it with a Husky 272xp, 28" bar on 24" mill, with Oregon LGX chain. The finish was smooth enough that a quick shot with a belt sander is all that would have been required even as an exposed beam in a cabin. The log was 18", but dead and dry, so worked the 272xp HARD. The 066 with 8 pin rim waltzed through the same wood about 3 times as fast.

As for the mill, get one size larger than you think you'll need. If you have 24" wood, you'll need the 30" mill, but can still cut smaller stuff by adjusting the rails inward and using a shorter bar.

The 660 should tear through 18" cedar without much effort for the saw or you. Its the 30"+ stuff that will wear you out, and slow the saw down. Its work, but very satisfying.


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## BobL (Feb 3, 2009)

excess650 said:


> Bob,
> You are THE MAN here. I always enjoy your posts and seeing your pictures. Your experience gives the rest of us ideas, and shortens our learning curves.



Thanks for those kind words, but if you track my threads back over the last 2 years you will see that 90% of my implementations are "stolen" from others on this site, people like Aggiewoodbutcher, Woodshop, and Railomatic (where has he got to?) and then others like Will Malloff etc. I do spend way too much time fiddling about and I am a very slow miller but I figure it's not my day job but my therapy, well its cheaper than going to therapy and way better for me.

I'm also very luck that I have access to a talented BIL (the ally welder) a nice home shop, and a very good mechanical shop at work complete with technical staff who can advise me on very technical stuff like the hardness of ally and steel alloys etc.



> I'm gonna try to mount some wheels on the inboard guide of my Alaskan, and the idea came from YOU!:yourock:


I got the wheel ideal from Railomatic. I think I may be the first to use four wheels on the inboard side of the mill.


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## BobL (Feb 3, 2009)

Zodiac45 said:


> I think I would break it in a little before going straight too milling. Run 5-10 tanks through it bucking logs and the like.



I would recommend a run in period as well, 5 tank fulls should do it.



hazard said:


> Doing this will kick the crap out of you. Be in shape and cut downhill



Yep, and one more tip, see if you can get the logs up off the ground. It might take you 10 - 15 minutes to do it but at the end of the day your back will thanks you for it.


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## BobL (Feb 3, 2009)

*Handles on saws*

Given I am not that fit, one of the things I have done that I reckon makes it possible for me to mill all day with a big mill and saw, is strategically place handles on the mill and saw. 





The most important handle is the one on the wrap handle of the saw. This allows me to operate with a much more upright stance. (Yes mine is also a remote throttle - see below) Some operators use a cable tie on the throttle and then use the wrap handle (that is the way I do it on other peoples mils), but the added handle provides the operator with an alternate stance and better leverage. If you add nothing else to your standard mill and saw combination this is the handle to add.

Most handles on mills are also down low on the rails or cross rails. My other handles are located on the long tubular handle that runs the full length of the mill. My tubular handle is already much higher than commercial mills (this also makes it easier to file on the mill) but the added handles are higher again. Having the handles on the cross tube means they can be moved to suit the operator independently of the cross rails on the mill - the location of which depends on the size of the log/bar. 

The handles are nothing fancy, just bicycle handlebar stems - the right angle clamp that connects the handlebar to the the forks. I pick nice alloy ones up from bicycles people throw out during the annual hard trash collection days. I then top them with a quality soft mountain bike grip to reduce vibration.





Higher handles does mean there is a tendency for the mill to tip. The way around this is to add polyethylene (PE) skids to the mill rails. This reduces friction and the tendency for the mill to tip is minimized. The PE skids are useful in their own right and they would be the second thing I would add to a mill after wheels and handles.


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## Gumnuts (Feb 3, 2009)

Zodiac45 said:


> While I mix a 40/1 (because I have some older saws) I really don't think that it's any problem for you too run the 50/1 mix. *Whats more important is that your saw's carb is tuned properly* and if anything tending towards the rich side on the H. Also that you give the saw a proper cool (let it idle) down after a long slog helps too.



Agree - but more oil 20/25 - 1 will allow you to run leaner ....more revs, faster cut........milling. .02
Synthetic Stihl ultra good.


Welcome to the site Jonesie.....cedar !!! Cedar should be nice on the saw too.


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## oldsaw (Feb 4, 2009)

Gumnuts said:


> Agree - but more oil 20/25 - 1 will allow you to run leaner ....more revs, faster cut........milling. .02
> Synthetic Stihl ultra good.
> 
> 
> Welcome to the site Jonesie.....cedar !!! Cedar should be nice on the saw too.



40:1 is plenty fine, I've milled many hundreds of bft with my 066 and the innerds look like new. That much oil would make you sick, yuck.

Mark


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## BobL (Feb 5, 2009)

oldsaw said:


> 40:1 is plenty fine, I've milled many hundreds of bft with my 066 and the innerds look like new. That much oil would make you sick, yuck.
> 
> Mark



+1. I helped someone last year cut lumber running 25:1 and it was pretty nauseating and gave me a headache for 3 days.


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## Gumnuts (Feb 5, 2009)

hmm..


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## Gumnuts (Feb 5, 2009)

Synthetic 20/25 -1 ,never been a prob ,no smoke......and no headaches.......*Although* not particularly nice when the breeze is throwing any exhaust AND chips in your face, with 20/25 or 40 :1.

you'll notice in your owners manual recommended 
25:1 other oils 
50:1 Stihl
rec for NORMAL USE - *MILLING NOT NORMAL USE*
As you may know, milling is hard on the saw.Your running it flat out for maybe a 15 minute cut....depending on the log size and wood type ! 
Other guys may use 40:1 milling...their choice.I use 35:1 normal use.
I milled with a 66 mag for a few years.....mostly HW.....40:1 Stihl.......
was my pride and joy...regularly serviced...blew it up......was rebuilt .I don't specifically blame it on the oil .
When i check my jug or plug , after a good milling session, on 20/25 they're not carboned up ,as some may imply. 
* Paramount is the tuning*.....MS660 lovely saw...you'll love it.
All the best with your new milling venture.


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## oldsaw (Feb 5, 2009)

Gumnuts said:


> Synthetic 20/25 -1 ,never been a prob ,no smoke......and no headaches.......*Although* not particularly nice when the breeze is throwing any exhaust AND chips in your face, with 20/25 or 40 :1.
> 
> you'll notice in your owners manual recommended
> 25:1 other oils
> ...



Most of my milling has been oak, cherry, and walnut, with some hedge, hackberry, cottonwood, and other stuff thrown in for good measure.

The 25:1 "if you don't use our oil" is basically to make the saw so smokey and smelly that you buy their oil. It also makes their oil seem more like a bargain. There isn't reality there, only marketing.

Mark


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## BobL (Feb 6, 2009)

Part of my day job is to conduct research into dust and aerosols. I learned many years ago that just because air is visibly clear and doesn't smell doesn't mean there's not something there. Amongst the plethora of gunk that goes into all 2-stroke lubes are anti-smoking agents. What concerns me is that lubes like 20/25 are most likely just a synthetic lube with an increased anti-smoking agent content. This will cleverly mask additional visible smoke but does not necessarily mean reduced invisible particulates in the air, there is every likelihood that there will be more. The MSDS of 2 stroke lubes is interesting to read, pumping more of it and its combustion products into the atmosphere should be done for a good reason. Apart from advertising and anecdotal evidence I have seen no unbiased technical reports that convinces me that 25:1 produces any gain in saw longevity or cutting performance in modern saws.


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