# Thoughts on aftermarket ms 660(hultz) or Stihl ms 461



## Jason37 (Jun 2, 2019)

hello there thanks for looking at my post. My 1st post.

Ok so What I’m wondering is should I buy a aftermarket rebuilt ms660 clone for 750

Or should I buy a Stihl ms 461 in decent condition for 650. I attached pictures of the two saws

I will be using it on my chainsaw mill probably 2-3 times a week and I would like to buy something I can rely on and will last. They say bigger is better for milling but I also want it to last. I’m just looking for some experienced millers thoughts. 
Thank you for reading n have a good one.


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## cuinrearview (Jun 2, 2019)

"Reliable and last" is not synonymous with "huztl"


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## jnance (Jun 2, 2019)

I was running a 28” bar on my 046 in oak. It ran it pretty good. But I sure can tell the difference in the ms661. The after market ones are ok at best. 


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## Jason37 (Jun 2, 2019)

jnance said:


> I was running a 28” bar on my 046 in oak. It ran it pretty good. But I sure can tell the difference in the ms661. The after market ones are ok at best.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Your 046 was it a Stihl or a aftermarket rebuilt saw. 


I’m new to buying saws and don’t know what saw to go with. I can buy the Stihl but then have to find another 20-24 inch bar where as the 660 AM has nice bar but won’t be something that’ll last... according to a lot of what I read.


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## jnance (Jun 2, 2019)

My saw is all stihl. I had a few after market parts and had to replace them. 


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## Jason37 (Jun 2, 2019)

Yea I might go with the Stihl 461. Just bc I want it to last and seems the AM always need to be replaced or they die while using.


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## foeke (Jun 2, 2019)

Im not sure about why you came with these options. Neither I would recomend.
The Hutzl is fine if you like it as a project.
But just if you would be fine if it would break on day one, and you had to fix it some more.
And then It works fine for a while, and it is the best thing in the world, because you made it work.
Just like an older Italien sportscar. 
You don't know the feeling when "Your Alfa works fine and you get to your destination in a spirited drive and you didn't hear anything suspicious in the drive train" when you are used to a normal reliable car.
But then a big BUT, if you always need to get to your destination, you better get something else.

The 461 is a nice bucking saw.

I have a Makita 7910 wich is kind of the same category as the 461. And I notice, it is more of a sportscar than the truck you need for the job when milling.
I preffer to hire something bigger and slower.

There are so many options with your budget I would think. Husky 394/395 comes to mind. But also the Dolmar 9010 would be a better pick if you want to safe some money.

Not the 390. That's just a better sportscar.

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## ammoaddict (Jun 2, 2019)

Some of those huztl 660 kits are very good and reliable, the earlier ones were not. But you can buy a kit for less than $300 or you can buy a complete one ( the blue ones) for a little over $300. There are several YouTube videos of both. I definitely wouldn't pay $750 for one.

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## Ryan'smilling (Jun 2, 2019)

$750 for a clone saw is nonsense. 

You didn't say what you're milling. Making some 12" boards from some pine or for, sure, go for the 461. It'll be nice because you can use it for other stuff besides milling too. Much bigger than that and I'd second the recommendation for a 394/395. Got the power, built to last, cheap enough used, and good parts support.


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## Jason37 (Jun 2, 2019)

I chose those two saws just bc I thought they were the stronger saws I saw on kijiji and that I thought would be good for what I needed. I would rather not be working on my saw other normal upkeep to keep it in good condition. That’s why I figured the 461. There was a Husqvarna I was eyeballing also was a 575xp but he sold the day b4 I could pick it up.

I watched a few videos and the ones I saw just showed cuts but didn’t really mention how long they had it and if they broke often or rarely just mostly how fast they cut thru sum big logs compared to the real Stihl

I’m paying with canadian money idk if that makes it any better lol. But I’m just milling some oak n ceder trying to make rough lumber for myself. The tree I have now is about 30” wide and I don’t mind doing two cuts if I had too. I just got a chainsaw mill and trying to get used to it.

I’m gonna keep watching to see if anything else comes up around me. There was a dolmar 70cc for 300 bucks but I wasn’t sure if I should get that just bc it was a bit smaller then the other two saws.


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## BobL (Jun 3, 2019)

> I will be using it on my chainsaw mill probably 2-3 times a week and I would like to buy *something I can rely on and will last*.


Well in my book that immediately rules out the Hultz.


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## andy at clover (Jun 3, 2019)

Milling is tough on saws. 


IMO, Buying a clone should be scratched from your list for 2-3 times a week use.... at any price.
A meteor Piston/Cylinder is one thing. Meteor specializes in those parts. 
Those Full on clones are for limited use/hobbyists at best.

You might try putting a WTB add in the classified.... lots of Canadians here.


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## foeke (Jun 3, 2019)

Did you find that milling 101 sticky? I milled way to much before reading though that.
The raker part was most usefull.
You say, I might use 2 cuts, and I get that.
In reality, you won't and it won't help.

In just a minute the engine is already as hot as it can get. Most saws are not made to run under heavy load for longer than 20 seconds or so.
In 20 seconds, you'll be through a big oak with a 461, but in that same 20 seconds you just started milling it. And you won't be doing 30 cuts.
Nobody is that patience.
And I'm not sure that would even be better, constantly heating up, and cooling down.

Better have a saw that isn't getting that hot in the first place (a relatively long stroke is the defining difference I believe).

Older types of saws (with less HP per cc) are in that category (like the dolmar 9010).

An other catagory would be saw designed to take on rainforrest type of trees. Like the 088/880 or the 3120. And the for a smaller budget the 394/395. 

One great thing about the 088/880 and 3120 are that the oiler is also made for oiling big bars.

So if you want to mill regulary, don't even look at those high RPM/HP per cc saws. Great for bucking and the like. Not for milling.
And you don't even need to go more expensive.
Just an other category.
One of the few situations where olders saws might be better. 

If you also want to fell the tree, buy 2 saws. You can fell substancial trees with a good 50 or 60cc saw wich didn't break the bank.

BTW the reason I am pressing the matter is because I bought that 7910 with the same train of thought. Really really great maschine. Even going through 1 meter wide european oak. But I am going to buy a fixed mill and hire a big lump ones in a while, because I don't want to kill that great saw. And killing you do. Even milling 60cm (25"?) Oak you can hear the thing sobbing. It might last for a couple of years milling occasionally. But it would last maybe a lifetime not milling.

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## SeMoTony (Jun 3, 2019)

I have used Ms-460 muff-modded and max flo air cleaner. Avatar shows 60" bar used w/460 against the stump. More often it is used with 42" Oregon slicing up to 38", semi-skip or full skip square chisel is used. The avatar was shot almost 3 years ago, couple weeks after a 10 foot white oak log 38"x41" on the fat end was milled using 42" bar and ripping chain.

Here the 60" is used for a maple trunk, with an 8 pin drive, semi-skip. And that saw sang Bought off "trading post" both the 0r6 and the 661 at a discount from brand new.
And the 42" with an 046 muff nodded max flow on a narrower slice further from the pith w/semi-skip

Let whichever PH you use breath so it runs cooler. Sharp cutters are the most important use of the available power. Smooth consistant feed helps keep the surface smooth. Just what has worked for me as a hobby miller.


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## BobL (Jun 4, 2019)

foeke said:


> In just a minute the engine is already as hot as it can get. Most saws are not made to run under heavy load for longer than 20 seconds or so.
> In 20 seconds, you'll be through a big oak with a 461, but in that same 20 seconds you just started milling it. And you won't be doing 30 cuts.
> Nobody is that patience. And I'm not sure that would even be better, constantly heating up, and cooling down.



My temperature gauge says that the temp on a milling saw just keeps going up and up during a cut. 
Initially the Temp goes up fairly quickly and then starts to slow down and eventually it's going up by about 1º per minute but I don't remember ever seeing the temp plateau while milling unless I deliberate reduce the pressure on the saw. There's a good reason for this and that is because the chain is getting blunter during the cut and there is a tendency to try and maintain the same rate of cut.
Either way this puts a big strain on saws, there's no doubt that a 20 minute cut at WOT is a heavy load and one that clones are not designed for.



> One great thing about the 088/880 and 3120 are that the oiler is also made for oiling big bars.


Those oilers are not very effective on long bars as most of the oil gets flung off at the nose. 
The 3120 has massive oiling capacity but it is largely wasted, The best way around this is an Aux oiler.


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## Mad Professor (Jun 5, 2019)

If you like fixing cheap crap buy Chinesium quality


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## Jason37 (Jun 6, 2019)

I ended up just buying a Stihl ms661 with a 36 inch bar just patiently waiting to get it I end up watching videos waiting for it . But I couldn’t see buying a saw for 700 just bc I wouldn’t get no money back if it wasn’t for me but I felt if I wanted I could get most of my money back with a Stihl but I doubt I’ll ever sell it. 
For the ripping chain did anyone ever order from loggerchain I just figured bc they have free shipping I might order from them. 
And with the huztl saws I would like to get the ms 440 just to try putting it together. 
That way I don’t gotta use the big 661 for smaller jobs. 
Thank u everyone with there fast input I like this forum get good info


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## cuinrearview (Jun 6, 2019)

Jason37 said:


> I ended up just buying a Stihl ms661 with a 36 inch bar just patiently waiting to get it I end up watching videos waiting for it . But I couldn’t see buying a saw for 700 just bc I wouldn’t get no money back if it wasn’t for me but I felt if I wanted I could get most of my money back with a Stihl but I doubt I’ll ever sell it.
> For the ripping chain did anyone ever order from loggerchain I just figured bc they have free shipping I might order from them.
> And with the huztl saws I would like to get the ms 440 just to try putting it together.
> That way I don’t gotta use the big 661 for smaller jobs.
> Thank u everyone with there fast input I like this forum get good info


Good choice not buying Huztl. If you really want to put one together, buy a project saw from here, locally, or on Ebay. Tear it all the way down, buy OEM parts, and put it together. You'll get the "building a puzzle" experience but you'll have something that lasts, and is mechanically as new as the China crap. I bet the cost will be close too, especially after you replace all of the questionable chit on the China doll.


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## SeMoTony (Jun 6, 2019)

Jason37 said:


> I ended up just buying a Stihl ms661 with a 36 inch bar just patiently waiting to get it I end up watching videos waiting for it . But I couldn’t see buying a saw for 700 just bc I wouldn’t get no money back if it wasn’t for me but I felt if I wanted I could get most of my money back with a Stihl but I doubt I’ll ever sell it.
> For the ripping chain did anyone ever order from loggerchain I just figured bc they have free shipping I might order from them.
> And with the huztl saws I would like to get the ms 440 just to try putting it together.
> That way I don’t gotta use the big 661 for smaller jobs.
> Thank u everyone with there fast input I like this forum get good info


Compare price with Madsens BOGO. They sell Oregon any where, but Stihl restricts them to state they are in. Open up the muffler ( think MT can) match the gasket to the exhaust, then use gasket to match opening into can. Pull the screen out of the way to open the port as large as possible before replacing screen.


50" bar semi-skip square chisel with an 8 pin drive that made the pile on the left from 3 cuts. Mine runs much stronger with free- er breathing, 661c off trading post.
Enjoy milling safely


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## andy at clover (Jun 6, 2019)

Jason37 said:


> I ended up just buying a Stihl ms661 with a 36 inch bar just patiently waiting to get it I end up watching videos waiting for it . But I couldn’t see buying a saw for 700 just bc I wouldn’t get no money back if it wasn’t for me but I felt if I wanted I could get most of my money back with a Stihl but I doubt I’ll ever sell it.
> For the ripping chain did anyone ever order from loggerchain I just figured bc they have free shipping I might order from them.
> And with the huztl saws I would like to get the ms 440 just to try putting it together.
> That way I don’t gotta use the big 661 for smaller jobs.
> Thank u everyone with there fast input I like this forum get good info




661 is a great Choice... you’ll love it!

I the oiler on my old 661 was opened up all the way and it was still not quiet enough for a 36” bar.... you’ll want an outboard oiler dripping onto the tip at the “lower side” of the bar.
Nothing fancy just hang a bottle and tube out on your mill post.
On my set up with the 3120, I get by with a helper squirting a blob of canned canola oil intended as kitchen spray oil.
It’s Costco brand cans and seems do a really good job.


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## motolife313 (Jun 10, 2019)

My 064 is a good reliable saw with good power. It can be made into a 066 also. I picked mine up for 550$. Always starts right up. I run a 32” bar and 8 pin sprocket


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## Jason37 (Jun 14, 2019)

I love the 661 I also bought a 20 in bar for cutting trees. 
I’m having trouble with my guide rails That i set up I’m just using 2x4 but the way I set it up I don’t think it’s right it’s all level all the way down but I have to drill nails to the top n I’d rather drill at end of the log instead so I won’t hit. I’ve Been looking at different setups Any suggestions on how they set there guide rails? 

I like this one 



But idk how he levels it... would I use wedges down ? Or is that y he cuts every few feet for the bars 2 drop into the log ?


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## Mad Professor (Jun 15, 2019)

I've been drinking.

When I turn in the cans Hultz will get them.

Then You can mill with them

Have fun in Chi-Com land...........


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## M.R. (Jun 15, 2019)

This question placed in a poll format 
Reads akin to a poll of asking in the movie
Dumb & Dumber
Who was the better actor?
OMG


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## BobL (Jun 20, 2019)

Jason37 said:


> I love the 661 I also bought a 20 in bar for cutting trees.
> I’m having trouble with my guide rails That i set up I’m just using 2x4 but the way I set it up I don’t think it’s right it’s all level all the way down but I have to drill nails to the top n I’d rather drill at end of the log instead so I won’t hit. I’ve Been looking at different setups Any suggestions on how they set there guide rails?
> 
> I like this one
> ...



They're my log rails and as they are very stiff I don't worry about levelling (along the log ie long orientation) them on short (<8ft) logs.
For shorter logs, more important that being level is rail twist along the log, so to level the rails for longer logs and to control twist (ie get the two rails co-planar) I use a digital angle finder (DAF).
This is placed on the cross pieces joining the rails at each ends (see red dots in picture)
Start by placing the DAF at one end and zeroing the DAF. Then place the DAF on the other end (make sure you keep it the same way around) and adjust the twist using wedges until the reading on the DAF is zero. Then Screw the pointed bolts firmly into the log ends.


Then on long logs the DAF is used at a few places along each rail (see Blue dots on picture) to see if there are any dips and bumps and small wedges are used to lift the rail or material removed from the log in the case of bumps.

A DAF is not essential and a spirit level can be used but a DAF is just easier.


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## JoshNY (Jun 20, 2019)

Jason37 said:


> I ended up just buying a Stihl ms661 with a 36 inch bar just patiently waiting to get it I end up watching videos waiting for it . But I couldn’t see buying a saw for 700 just bc I wouldn’t get no money back if it wasn’t for me but I felt if I wanted I could get most of my money back with a Stihl but I doubt I’ll ever sell it.
> For the ripping chain did anyone ever order from loggerchain I just figured bc they have free shipping I might order from them.
> And with the huztl saws I would like to get the ms 440 just to try putting it together.
> That way I don’t gotta use the big 661 for smaller jobs.
> Thank u everyone with there fast input I like this forum get good info


I recently built a Huztl 440 kit. It was a lot of fun, and the saw is running great!
I did substitute a few oem parts. Piston pin bearing, piston pin circlips, and the choke control lever.
Cut a cord of wood so far and running very well.
The only major issue I had is huztl put a 460 crankcase in my 440 kit and took quite a while to get correct part shipped.

All things considered , I would build one again. Was fun to build and am really liking how the saw turned out and am enjoying running it!

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk


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## noodlewalker (Jul 23, 2019)

JoshNY said:


> I recently built a Huztl 440 kit. It was a lot of fun, and the saw is running great!
> I did substitute a few oem parts. Piston pin bearing, piston pin circlips, and the choke control lever.
> Cut a cord of wood so far and running very well.
> The only major issue I had is huztl put a 460 crankcase in my 440 kit and took quite a while to get correct part shipped.
> ...


I have built a ton of the HUZTL kits... I absolutely hated the 440 kit though. Had nothing but trouble with every one. My favorite was the 372xp, and the 660 with a big bore.... Huge market for them, but 750 is wayyyyy too much! I sold them typically for around 375 shipped and still came out ok. The guys selling them for that much are straight up ripping people off.


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## noodlewalker (Jul 23, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> "Reliable and last" is not synonymous with "huztl"


Depends on who builds it!!!


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## cuinrearview (Jul 24, 2019)

noodlewalker said:


> Depends on who builds it!!!


Do you mean "it depends on how many OEM parts you throw at the build"?

It has been well documented here and elsewhere that they are incapable of getting some parts consistently right.


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## noodlewalker (Jul 24, 2019)

I have built 40 of the 660 kits, 38 of the 372 kits and about 40 total of all of the other kits (070, 440, 380, 361, 360, 250, 200t) over the past 3 years... I told every customer of mine that I would stand behind every saw I build. So far in those 3 years I have had zero failures on any of the 372s I have built. I have had a few 660s that have had minor issues which amount to the starter ropes failing, the chain tensioners failing, the decompression valves failing and one clutch clip failing. I have only had one engine failure, which my customer and I BOTH believe was caused by a bad can of trufuel. Every one of the 440s I built had trouble from the carburetor to the coil to the flywheel and the starter. One engine failed because of the circlip (which I honestly believe I didn't install properly) I have had nothing but trouble with the 200t kit as well. Again carb, flywheel and coils. Out of all of the other saw kits there have been zero failures except ONE 361 that my customer got something lodged in the flywheel and he thought the cylinder seized because the rope wouldn't pull. I will agree with your statement that they (the factory) can't CONSISTENTLY get things right.... Which is because of the fact that quality standards are not enforced factory wide and less than high quality parts get out the door and end up in the hands of the builder. Which is the reason I stated "it depends on who builds them" I fixed every failure for every one of my customers and never once used OEM parts. I did use a different manufacturer of aftermarket parts though. My point is that just being OEM does not make it better, and just being aftermarket does not make it worse. There are different levels of quality throughout each category of part... Wether it is OEM or aftermarket. 

I have the experience to recognize the bad parts that arrive in the kits, and replace them when I build it. I also have the relationship with my customer so they are comfortable with the sale in the fact that they know trouble may arise, but they also know that I will fix it. 

So again, I say to you. It depends on who builds it. 
The guys selling them for 750 are ripping people off.


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## cuinrearview (Jul 24, 2019)

noodlewalker said:


> I have built 40 of the 660 kits, 38 of the 372 kits and about 40 total of all of the other kits (070, 440, 380, 361, 360, 250, 200t) over the past 3 years... I told every customer of mine that I would stand behind every saw I build. So far in those 3 years I have had zero failures on any of the 372s I have built. I have had a few 660s that have had minor issues which amount to the starter ropes failing, the chain tensioners failing, the decompression valves failing and one clutch clip failing. I have only had one engine failure, which my customer and I BOTH believe was caused by a bad can of trufuel. Every one of the 440s I built had trouble from the carburetor to the coil to the flywheel and the starter. One engine failed because of the circlip (which I honestly believe I didn't install properly) I have had nothing but trouble with the 200t kit as well. Again carb, flywheel and coils. Out of all of the other saw kits there have been zero failures except ONE 361 that my customer got something lodged in the flywheel and he thought the cylinder seized because the rope wouldn't pull. I will agree with your statement that they (the factory) can't CONSISTENTLY get things right.... Which is because of the fact that quality standards are not enforced factory wide and less than high quality parts get out the door and end up in the hands of the builder. Which is the reason I stated "it depends on who builds them" I fixed every failure for every one of my customers and never once used OEM parts. I did use a different manufacturer of aftermarket parts though. My point is that just being OEM does not make it better, and just being aftermarket does not make it worse. There are different levels of quality throughout each category of part... Wether it is OEM or aftermarket.
> 
> I have the experience to recognize the bad parts that arrive in the kits, and replace them when I build it. I also have the relationship with my customer so they are comfortable with the sale in the fact that they know trouble may arise, but they also know that I will fix it.
> 
> ...


Everything you said makes sense, except for the "OEM isn't better" statement. If you've built that many you know the extra time you have to put into them, and time is money. I would say that you've been pretty lucky, given what is posted here and elsewhere. You're the first one I've read that "knows" the kits and uses their wrist pin bearings. You're one bad QC day in the bearing dept in Bejing away from a lot of pissed of guys!


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## noodlewalker (Jul 24, 2019)

cuinrearview said:


> Everything you said makes sense, except for the "OEM isn't better" statement. If you've built that many you know the extra time you have to put into them, and time is money. I would say that you've been pretty lucky, given what is posted here and elsewhere. You're the first one I've read that "knows" the kits and uses their wrist pin bearings. You're one bad QC day in the bearing dept in Bejing away from a lot of pissed of guys!


Oh I hear you on the one bad qc day away from pissed off guys! The one engine failure was a guy in Utah that had a huge job on a certain date with a crane already rented... To say he was pissed is an understatement. I had just built a saw for a guy in Tennessee, so I called Tennessee and asked if he was willing to ship his saw from Tennessee to my customer in Utah, then I would fix the saw from Utah and send it back to him in Tennessee. Again, my relationship with my customers plays a huge factor here. Both parties were willing to accept the contact, so I paid for overnight shipping from Tennessee to Utah. The saw arrived in Utah the day before the big job, the job was accomplished and everyone was happy! The guy in Utah has purchased two other saws from me since then. My comment about OEM not being better is being mistaken. I never said that OEM is not better, I said that "just because" it is OEM does not make it better. There are different levels of quality within each category, wether it is OEM or aftermarket.


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## cuinrearview (Jul 24, 2019)

I'm not talking about all aftermarket, I'm just talking specifically about huztl/FT.


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## Jethro 2t sniffer (Jul 24, 2019)

motolife313 said:


> My 064 is a good reliable saw with good power. It can be made into a 066 also. I picked mine up for 550$. Always starts right up. I run a 32” bar and 8 pin sprocket View attachment 740710



Nice 5hundy


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## ammoaddict (Jul 24, 2019)

noodlewalker said:


> I have built 40 of the 660 kits, 38 of the 372 kits and about 40 total of all of the other kits (070, 440, 380, 361, 360, 250, 200t) over the past 3 years... I told every customer of mine that I would stand behind every saw I build. So far in those 3 years I have had zero failures on any of the 372s I have built. I have had a few 660s that have had minor issues which amount to the starter ropes failing, the chain tensioners failing, the decompression valves failing and one clutch clip failing. I have only had one engine failure, which my customer and I BOTH believe was caused by a bad can of trufuel. Every one of the 440s I built had trouble from the carburetor to the coil to the flywheel and the starter. One engine failed because of the circlip (which I honestly believe I didn't install properly) I have had nothing but trouble with the 200t kit as well. Again carb, flywheel and coils. Out of all of the other saw kits there have been zero failures except ONE 361 that my customer got something lodged in the flywheel and he thought the cylinder seized because the rope wouldn't pull. I will agree with your statement that they (the factory) can't CONSISTENTLY get things right.... Which is because of the fact that quality standards are not enforced factory wide and less than high quality parts get out the door and end up in the hands of the builder. Which is the reason I stated "it depends on who builds them" I fixed every failure for every one of my customers and never once used OEM parts. I did use a different manufacturer of aftermarket parts though. My point is that just being OEM does not make it better, and just being aftermarket does not make it worse. There are different levels of quality throughout each category of part... Wether it is OEM or aftermarket.
> 
> I have the experience to recognize the bad parts that arrive in the kits, and replace them when I build it. I also have the relationship with my customer so they are comfortable with the sale in the fact that they know trouble may arise, but they also know that I will fix it.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that post. I had no idea anyone had built that many kits. I built the 660 first and had a lot of small issues with it. I built the 372 big bore next and it was much better. 
On the 660s you built, did the fast idle work on any of them? If not, what did you do to correct it?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## noodlewalker (Jul 24, 2019)

I absolutely have built that many.. all of my builds are Posted on YouTube.. look up the video AM660-35 you will be able to see the 35th one I built. From there you can find every other one I built. I always tuned the carbs by ear, but obviously there are many factors involved with tuning... I live in Iowa so if the owner of the saw lives in California, or Oregon, or Colorado the air quality and pressure are different so it will change for every customer. I built a 372 for a guy who lives in Michigan... He called me and said he had an OEM 372 as well and the aftermarket saw ran better than the OEM Husqvarna 372 did. He asked me if I could tune his oem saw to run like the aftermarket one does... He sent it to me and I did! My point is, there are many factors that impact tuning. If you are having trouble with one I would be more than happy to help you, but without having it in hand it is hard to say what is wrong. I have only had trouble with the carb on a 660 a few times, but if it is the 54mm cylinder the settings from the factory are off a bit. Start with the idle screw out 2 turns, then the low idle out 1 to 1-1/4 out and the high idle 7/8 to 1 turn out... That will get you started. If it is a big bore engine add 1/4 to 1/2 turn out to each of those settings.


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## ammoaddict (Jul 24, 2019)

noodlewalker said:


> I absolutely have built that many.. all of my builds are Posted on YouTube.. look up the video AM660-35 you will be able to see the 35th one I built. From there you can find every other one I built. I always tuned the carbs by ear, but obviously there are many factors involved with tuning... I live in Iowa so if the owner of the saw lives in California, or Oregon, or Colorado the air quality and pressure are different so it will change for every customer. I built a 372 for a guy who lives in Michigan... He called me and said he had an OEM 372 as well and the aftermarket saw ran better than the OEM Husqvarna 372 did. He asked me if I could tune his oem saw to run like the aftermarket one does... He sent it to me and I did! My point is, there are many factors that impact tuning. If you are having trouble with one I would be more than happy to help you, but without having it in hand it is hard to say what is wrong. I have only had trouble with the carb on a 660 a few times, but if it is the 54mm cylinder the settings from the factory are off a bit. Start with the idle screw out 2 turns, then the low idle out 1 to 1-1/4 out and the high idle 7/8 to 1 turn out... That will get you started. If it is a big bore engine add 1/4 to 1/2 turn out to each of those settings.


Thanks for the reply. I wasn't doubting your word that you have built so many saws but merely impressed that you had.
I was not talking about carb tuning but rather the fast idle setting on the master control lever. When you move it from choke up one notch to fast idle (on the 660). Most I have read about including mine do not hold the fast idle. Some people put OEM shaft and trigger and I have read about making shims for the shaft to get it to hold in the fast idle position.
I was just wondering what you did on yours if you got the fast idle position to work.

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## noodlewalker (Jul 25, 2019)

I certainly apologize... I didn't mean for my reply to sound snobbish or rude, but I read back through it and can see how it might have sounded... 
I think I understand your question a little better now, maybe the rum clouded my perseption a bit last night, lol. 

I haven't ever had the problem you are describing. And none of the guys that bought them have said anything about it... I dunno if this may contribute to that issue, but in the carburetor there is a round brass plate (the choke plate) and I had one that was manufactured slightly out of round. It would stick and cause the carb to stay choked after you pull the trigger. I just took some Emery cloth to it and the problem went away.


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## ammoaddict (Jul 25, 2019)

noodlewalker said:


> I certainly apologize... I didn't mean for my reply to sound snobbish or rude, but I read back through it and can see how it might have sounded...
> I think I understand your question a little better now, maybe the rum clouded my perseption a bit last night, lol.
> 
> I haven't ever had the problem you are describing. And none of the guys that bought them have said anything about it... I dunno if this may contribute to that issue, but in the carburetor there is a round brass plate (the choke plate) and I had one that was manufactured slightly out of round. It would stick and cause the carb to stay choked after you pull the trigger. I just took some Emery cloth to it and the problem went away.


Thank you, apology accepted but not necessary.
The fast idle is not a carb related problem. I will try to post some pictures of what I am talking about. I don't remember anyone that I have talked to that had a fast idle that worked unless they bought OEM parts or made a shim for the throttle shaft.
In the photo, I am talking about position 3 on the control switch. The throttle shaft doesn't engage with the trigger correctly to engage the fast idle. It goes from choke to run.
In the other photo, parts 1 and 5 are the ones that are the problem.
Did you have this problem with your kits?









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## noodlewalker (Jul 25, 2019)

ammoaddict said:


> Thank you, apology accepted but not necessary.
> The fast idle is not a carb related problem. I will try to post some pictures of what I am talking about. I don't remember anyone that I have talked to that had a fast idle that worked unless they bought OEM parts or made a shim for the throttle shaft.
> In the photo, I am talking about position 3 on the control switch. The throttle shaft doesn't engage with the trigger correctly to engage the fast idle. It goes from choke to run.
> In the other photo, parts 1 and 5 are the ones that are the problem.
> ...


I can't say that I have had that issue... If I have had it I didn't know or recognize there was an issue, and nobody has brought it to my attention as yet...


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## ammoaddict (Jul 25, 2019)

noodlewalker said:


> I can't say that I have had that issue... If I have had it I didn't know or recognize there was an issue, and nobody has brought it to my attention as yet...


If the saws crank good without the fast idle, I would say no one has brought it to your attention. I haven't heard of any kit that had a working fast idle out of the box. Mine does not work either but it cranks well enough with out it. I still would like to have it working though.
The guys that have bought the blue 660 complete saws say that the fast idle does work on those but I haven't seen one in person.

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## noodlewalker (Jul 25, 2019)

ammoaddict said:


> If the saws crank good without the fast idle, I would say no one has brought it to your attention. I haven't heard of any kit that had a working fast idle out of the box. Mine does not work either but it cranks well enough with out it. I still would like to have it working though.
> The guys that have bought the blue 660 complete saws say that the fast idle does work on those but I haven't seen one in person.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


I would imagine that to be the case. I have just never known of that as a problem. I have rebuilt one of the blue ones already, it ran like crap out of the box. The owner bought a 660 I built for him and said mine was night and day different from it. He asked me to put a new top end on it and it ran way better, but he never mentioned that issue on either saw. I'm sure it is just as you said... It starts and runs so people don't make it an issue. Good to know about it though, thank you.


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## Mark Price2 (Aug 21, 2019)

Hi everyone,
New to Forum but not to Saws. 
I just finished a 660 build and I had the same fast idle problem as well as the sticking chock plate. Sanded the plate and replaced Part 1 (from above picture) with one from an old blown 066 Mag saw that I had for parts. problem solved. Only other problem I had was a badly formed gas line connector that was leaking, the barbs would not seal, again replaced with old one from part saw. Have about 4 tanks of gas thru it so still breaking it in, so far so good.


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## AUSSIE1 (Jun 11, 2020)

noodlewalker said:


> I have built 40 of the 660 kits, 38 of the 372 kits and about 40 total of all of the other kits (070, 440, 380, 361, 360, 250, 200t) over the past 3 years... I told every customer of mine that I would stand behind every saw I build. So far in those 3 years I have had zero failures on any of the 372s I have built. I have had a few 660s that have had minor issues which amount to the starter ropes failing, the chain tensioners failing, the decompression valves failing and one clutch clip failing. I have only had one engine failure, which my customer and I BOTH believe was caused by a bad can of trufuel. Every one of the 440s I built had trouble from the carburetor to the coil to the flywheel and the starter. One engine failed because of the circlip (which I honestly believe I didn't install properly) I have had nothing but trouble with the 200t kit as well. Again carb, flywheel and coils. Out of all of the other saw kits there have been zero failures except ONE 361 that my customer got something lodged in the flywheel and he thought the cylinder seized because the rope wouldn't pull. I will agree with your statement that they (the factory) can't CONSISTENTLY get things right.... Which is because of the fact that quality standards are not enforced factory wide and less than high quality parts get out the door and end up in the hands of the builder. Which is the reason I stated "it depends on who builds them" I fixed every failure for every one of my customers and never once used OEM parts. I did use a different manufacturer of aftermarket parts though. My point is that just being OEM does not make it better, and just being aftermarket does not make it worse. There are different levels of quality throughout each category of part... Wether it is OEM or aftermarket.
> 
> I have the experience to recognize the bad parts that arrive in the kits, and replace them when I build it. I also have the relationship with my customer so they are comfortable with the sale in the fact that they know trouble may arise, but they also know that I will fix it.
> 
> ...



Great post Noodle. Good to see some truth based off experience not on biased opinion only.

I have had plenty of experience with aftermarket barrel kits and other parts. I have seen some shocker kits, but when the kits have been good, i have had no hesitation in using them. The 77cc big bore kits for the 372 are brilliant. Ported they can make serious hp and torque and longevity. My favourite saw is my 371XP with a ported 52mm kit at 77cc. I sold my cleaned up 390XP because it had nothing on this saw but at greater bulk and weight. It easily pulls a 32” bar in Aussie hardwood at 32”. I have a video of that. I have here a complete Chinese copy of the 372 now with a ported 77cc kit. This saw has been thrashed for something like 10 years now and has not missed a beat. Im so impressed. I have a video of this saw in 32” of Aussie hardwood also. Also says alot about the aftermarket crank. Im also running the 100cc 395 kit on two of my saws. Yep, one is my milling saw.

I shake my head every time i read posts by people who are so opinionated about something they have not experienced. Yet those that have experienced have no issue. Interesting aye?

Heat? Give your saw a breather every few minutes. Its not a race!


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## noodlewalker (Jun 11, 2020)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Great post Noodle. Good to see some truth based off experience not on biased opinion only.
> 
> I have had plenty of experience with aftermarket barrel kits and other parts. I have seen some shocker kits, but when the kits have been good, i have had no hesitation in using them. The 77cc big bore kits for the 372 are brilliant. Ported they can make serious hp and torque and longevity. My favourite saw is my 371XP with a ported 52mm kit at 77cc. I sold my cleaned up 390XP because it had nothing on this saw but at greater bulk and weight. It easily pulls a 32” bar in Aussie hardwood at 32”. I have a video of that. I have here a complete Chinese copy of the 372 now with a ported 77cc kit. This saw has been thrashed for something like 10 years now and has not missed a beat. Im so impressed. I have a video of this saw in 32” of Aussie hardwood also. Also says alot about the aftermarket crank. Im also running the 100cc 395 kit on two of my saws. Yep, one is my milling saw.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I'd love to see the video of the 32 on that saw. I have ran up to a 28 on mine with no trouble at all, still plenty of oil and power.


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## AUSSIE1 (Jun 11, 2020)

noodlewalker said:


> Thank you. I'd love to see the video of the 32 on that saw. I have ran up to a 28 on mine with no trouble at all, still plenty of oil and power.


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