# Hemlock Logging



## PA Plumber (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm jumping the gun, but here it goes:

In a few weeks I am planning to start felling, limbing, bucking and staging Eastern Hemlock. I have a small track loader (931 C with a 4-1 bucket) I'm planning to use as a skidder. My access road runs right down the middle of the Hemlock grove to be harvested.

Largest trees 32" DBH (Maybe 20) down to 10" DBH (In the Hundreds).
I have the requirements from the mill on DBH and Lengths.

I am planning to purchase a 441 for this (I know there are lots of saw options) with a 24" bar (according to Stihl 25"). Conventional notch, plunge to hinge, then cut the backstrap as standard procedure. I have an 026 for bucking and limbing.

Will RSC3 do the job for me or is another chain recommended? 
Is there special saw and chain maintenance for cutting Hemlock that wouldn't be required for hardwoods? 
Finally, am I crazy for eagerly looking forward to doing this by myself? I will have help somedays, but not very often. I will keep my cell phone close.


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## tawilson (Jan 26, 2007)

The mill isn't interested in all those small hemlocks, are they?
I have to deal with hemlocks quite a bit, and I don't do anything special. It is actually a "hard" wood, even though it is classified a softwood. Drive a nail in it and you'll see. Sounds to me like you're set up pretty good.
Sounds like fun to me. This is the first winter I've worked a regular job in the last four years. Needless to say, the last three winters were spent in the woods. Now it's just the weekends.


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## PA Plumber (Jan 26, 2007)

10" DBH is the smalles size and 8'4" is the smalles length. 
I'm planning on seeing how this goes by taking out the larger trees first. If I enjoy it enough, I'll keep working my way down to the smaller DBH stuff.

Tom, you are right.
Correction: The smallest diameter they will take is 10".


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## stihl 440 (Jan 26, 2007)

I would just run regular RSC, really impressive chain, I love it. Or you could run RSLK(square ground square tooth). That 441 will handle it with ease. I would get some cat chockers for that 931. Or get a clevis and 2 mainline slides and 2 chockers of the length you choose. Put the mainline slides in the clevis and it will be like a skidder.


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## PA Plumber (Jan 26, 2007)

stihl 440 said:


> I would just run regular RSC, really impressive chain, I love it. Or you could run RSLK(square ground square tooth). That 441 will handle it with ease. I would get some cat chockers for that 931. Or get a clevis and 2 mainline slides and 2 chockers of the length you choose. Put the mainline slides in the clevis and it will be like a skidder.



Okay, the whole skidder rigging suggestion went whizzing over my head about 8'. A picture would sure help.

I was planning on using a log chain around the bucket on the larger logs and just grabbing and picking up the smaller ones.


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## stihl 440 (Jan 26, 2007)

*cat chockers.*

The cat chockers are a regular chocker on one end with the cable made into a loop on one end so you can use it with a hook. You can find them at your local franklin dealer, or skidder dealer, and baileys. Go on bailey's site and look at the chockers and you will see what I mean. Are you taking them out tree length(no limbs, topped not bucked to lengths, bucking at landing.) That is what I do IF I can.


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## PA Plumber (Jan 26, 2007)

Yes, if the machine will move them I plan to top at 10", limb and then drag the rest of the log out. If they are too big, I'll have to buck them where they fell.


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## Urbicide (Jan 26, 2007)

Don't forget the camera! We expect to see some pics!


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## Frank Boyer (Jan 26, 2007)

PA Plumber said:


> Yes, if the machine will move them I plan to top at 10", limb and then drag the rest of the log out. If they are too big, I'll have to buck them where they fell.



Your 931 should be able to pick up 20' to 30' logs of the size that you are cutting. I am assuming that you have a 4-in-one bucket. My 125 is the size of a 941 Cat and it will lift 8000 pounds and a 30" to 36" diameter log.


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## PA Plumber (Jan 26, 2007)

Frank Boyer said:


> Your 931 should be able to pick up 20' to 30' logs of the size that you are cutting. I am assuming that you have a 4-in-one bucket. My 125 is the size of a 941 Cat and it will lift 8000 pounds and a 30" to 36" diameter log.



That's good to hear. I am only needing to drag these logs. Some of the larger diameter ones will be pushing 70' in length. 

I did pick up a 14' section of a 32" DBH Red Oak. The machine was riding on the front idlers most of the time. The hydraulics are way stronger than the stability when you get that much weight up high. 

I believe these logs only need to be lifted high enough to keep the butts from plowing a furrow? If i roll the bucket, the machine shouldn't get too front heavy?


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## perchhauler (Jan 26, 2007)

*Hemlock*

Sounds like fun to me!! I'm new on here from Pa. also.. I'm getting ready to start cutting monday, white, and red oak.. Having someone come in and do the felling for me and leave (a little at a time), I'm doing all the limbing, bucking, skidding with horses.. I can relate to the working by yourself thing, I love it.. Have fun, and be safe!! Steve


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## stumpjumper83 (Jan 26, 2007)

there is a hemlock log for ya. Saw is a 460 w/ a 24"


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## PA Plumber (Jan 26, 2007)

Perch & Stump, What part of the state? I live near Harrisburg.

Nice log Stump.


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## stumpjumper83 (Jan 26, 2007)

I live in lancaster, be happy to swing by and make a few stumps sometime. That particular one is off my dad's farm up in Potter co


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## perchhauler (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm in Clearfield county, not far below the Elk county line, about an hour north west of State College... I was just in Harrisburg last week, hauled some horses to a sale at the farm show complex... Steve


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## PA Plumber (Jan 26, 2007)

Give me a few weeks to get a shoulder surgery a little more healed up and I'll be making a go at this. I'll plan to post on this again when I'm getting started. If there are a few folks out there who want to give their saws a go, maybe this can be coordinated to be safe and fun.


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## stihl 440 (Jan 26, 2007)

paPlumber, I would swing by if I weren't so far away(champion, PA)Westmoreland county. I do go to the farm show complex to the farm show and the horse show though. Long ride. Like I said I would swing by and help you out if I wasn't so far away.


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## PA Plumber (Jan 26, 2007)

No Problem Stihl 440. 

Off Topic here: Can you believe we actually had nice weather for the Farm Show? We have lived in this part of the state for nigh on 15 years and this is the first time we had decent farm show weather.


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## perchhauler (Jan 26, 2007)

It was warm for once this year.. I used to work for one of the draft horse exhibitors at the farm show every year, and it was always cold... Hey I know where Champion is, been through there different times.. Bought a truck in White, and bought my Cummins dually I have now at Balsley's.. Steve


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## woodhog (Jan 26, 2007)

Perchhauler, I am just down the road from you. Half way between, Dubois, and Punxsy.


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## perchhauler (Jan 26, 2007)

Cool Woodhog your right in my neck o the woods.. I live close to the Quehanna wild area.. I used to spend alot of time in the punxy/ Dubois area.. Steve


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## woodhog (Jan 26, 2007)

I know I am getting off the topic. Perchhauler, we have a camp on the quehanna highway, up on top of the hill from the medix hotel, past the pumping station. We turn at the maintainence garage.


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## perchhauler (Jan 26, 2007)

My Parents had a camp on the Merrill/ Ardell road, it turns to the left just past the pumping station (if your going toward medix).. They sold it after the 85' tornado.. They only live 12 miles through the woods from it.. I grew up hunting in that country, and I'll never leave it.. Steve


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## woodhog (Jan 26, 2007)

I know where you mean, we are back Dieble road, about 1 1/2 miles.


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## stihl 440 (Jan 26, 2007)

PAplumber, I would also get a 20" bar for the 441. I run 20" on my 440 and 460. Get a stihl rollomatic ES bar. I wouldn't want to be carrying around the 25" all the time. Especially when you are in smaller wood. Also a 20" will take down up to a 45" tree with plunge cutting the center of the notch. What style cutting are you using? GOL style?


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## tawilson (Jan 27, 2007)

Maybe you have a grapple on your loader and this won't apply, but I do a little trick with my tractor's bucket to make life easier. I have a piece of angle iron across the top with notches in it for the chains and I use a skidding tong with a chain looped through it hooked onto two of the notches to make a "V". I can go up to a log, drop the tongs over it, drag it where I want, drop it and hit the tongs at the ring with the bottom lip of the bucket so it pops off, all without leaving my seat. I got sick of dragging the cable from my winch all over, so I started doing this to get all the logs together for dragging. I can even curl the bucket back and pick smaller logs up in the air for stacking. Just don't go too high or the log can swing back around at you. If you put the ring so it hits your bottom lip, you can make the tongs turn if you curl the bucket back.


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## PA Plumber (Jan 27, 2007)

Tom,
I do have a 4-1 bucket on the track loader. It works great for grabbing a log lengthwise and stacking. Might even be able to grab the end to drag. I may have to investigate your method a little more when I get sick and tired of jumbing off the machine every time to pull out a log.


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## stihl 440 (Jan 27, 2007)

*not that bad*

It's not that bad to get off the machine to hook a log. I do it. If you get the cat chockers it will be easier for you. You just hook the chocker around the log and pull up to the log or back up to it and put the loop on the hook. And away you go. That 4in1 bucket will help you out majorly, at the landing and in the woods.


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## PA Plumber (Jan 27, 2007)

stihl 440 said:


> It's not that bad to get off the machine to hook a log. I do it. If you get the cat chockers it will be easier for you. You just hook the chocker around the log and pull up to the log or back up to it and put the loop on the hook. And away you go. That 4in1 bucket will help you out majorly, at the landing and in the woods.



I did go to Bailey's. It looks like a chain a slide and a cable. I would guess this would allow quicker attach/detach for skidding logs?


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## stihl 440 (Jan 28, 2007)

It is quicker to use a cat chocker, al lot quicker. http://store.baileys-online.com/cgi-bin/baileys/285?mv_session_id=Isv4rig7&product_sku=FSE%201214


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## PA Plumber (Jan 28, 2007)

Thank you for your continued help Stihl 440.
Please excuse my ignorance here. Let's see if I understand how it works.
Loop is for attaching to bucket
Slide and knobbed end are what is used to go around log and quick connects to form a sliding loop. 
Skid log and when done, release tension and undo quick connect end.

Does this sound right? About how long of a cat choker would be recommended? Largest trees are in the low 30" dbh range.


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## stihl 440 (Jan 28, 2007)

*yep!*

Yep! That's how you do it. You can use the loop with a hook on the cat or a clevis,(or bucket). I would say for the length is 10ft or 14ft. It is surprising how short it gets when around a log.


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## BC_Logger (Jan 28, 2007)

i agree with stihl 440 thous chokers will get the job done


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## PA Plumber (Jan 28, 2007)

Okay. It sounds as though a cat choker will be a lot faster than a log chain. Much easier to connect and disconnect from the log. I'll plan to get one for skidding and clevis it to one of the chain holes at the top of the bucket.


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## stihl 440 (Jan 28, 2007)

That would be the right thing to do. Do you have two holes on your bucket? If so you could get 2 chockers and bring out 2 logs at a time. That's if they aren't too heavy. You said earlier that some of the trees are 85ft to 10". In that case I would buck them to 40', then bring them out. But wriggling 40 footers around bends is tricky. After a couple of them you'll get the hang of it.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## PA Plumber (Jan 29, 2007)

stihl 440 said:


> paPlumber, I would swing by if I weren't so far away(champion, PA)Westmoreland county. I do go to the farm show complex to the farm show and the horse show though. Long ride. Like I said I would swing by and help you out if I wasn't so far away.



Man, you sure have me wishing we could meet at the property sometime. I would love to go over layout and methods. 

The two cat chockers is a good idea and so is the 40' bucking length. I was up today looking over the lane and what I have to do to make it so the triaxle can get in. A few of the Hemlocks are Huge. 

I never looked at them to drop them until today. Very intimidating!! I do have Douglas Dent's book, but dropping a 3-4 ton tree will take some getting used to. I can't imagine dropping some of the trees out west and in the Pacific North West!!


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## stumpjumper83 (Jan 29, 2007)

I dunno what the tree weight was but I did get a 3 ton log outa this one, plus the second log. The second I had to leave in the woods and is not the log beside the big one because it was too long to make it around a bend. Guessing at least 4 ton maybe for total tree weight. Hey let me know I'd be happy to come cut sometime.


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## PA Plumber (Jan 29, 2007)

stumpjumper83 said:


> I dunno what the tree weight was but I did get a 3 ton log outa this one, plus the second log. The second I had to leave in the woods and is not the log beside the big one because it was too long to make it around a bend. Guessing at least 4 ton maybe for total tree weight. Hey let me know I'd be happy to come cut sometime.



Nice log Stump.
Okay, I'll make a post with some prestart pics to let folks know. 

I know cut layout is very important. In plumbing ne house rough-ins 75% of the job is layout. If that is done correctly, the rest of the job goes much smoothly. This is my first time laying out a logging cut. I know it won't be perfect, but I do hope it is enjoyable.


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## stihl 440 (Jan 29, 2007)

*logging layout.*

When I cut I make my paths for the first day. Cutting the trees off the landing and clearing the landing. Pileing them in the log deck. I also cut the trees that are in the way on my skid roads. Then the second day I start cutting. I start at the back of the stand and work back toward the landing. The last day I walk the stand to see if I missed anything. Is your gound soft where the landing is? To say get a tri-axle in and out with a load of logs. But laying out a logging layout, is just like plumbing, if it is layed out right the rest of the job goes smoothly. Also if you haven't logged in a long time or never, the first day you will be the most tired. After that it just gets better. You'll get used to it. Boy, I wish I was closer to harrisburg.  :hmm3grin2orange:


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## PA Plumber (Jan 29, 2007)

There is a gravel lane that runs (From West to East) down through the middle of the Hemlock harvest area. I have two old staging areas (from logging done 20 or more years ago) that are right beside the lane.

On the right side (South) there is a flat and then up a ridge. The trees on the flat look extremely straight. The trees on the north side of the ridge will likely want to fall down the ridge with the tops toward the landing/staging area.

On the left side (North) of the lane there is a flat and then the contour slopes down slightly and away from the lane. Most of these trees look like they want to fall to the west and north.

So... I'll clean up the staging area, and start from there since the trees want to naturally fall in that direction?


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## PA Plumber (Jan 29, 2007)

I am hoping to go back up tomorrow. I try to remember to take the digital camera to get some pics of the area, a couple of the larger trees and my "skidder" (track loader).


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## Husky137 (Jan 30, 2007)

Might be a good time to work on your directional felling.

One of the keys to making logging more efficient is to lay out the "strip" so that you fell your trees all in the same direction. Trying to pick apart tinker toys is a PITA.

Also, I'd be careful about using a gravel road as a skid trail unless you can get all but the tip up off the ground. Hemlock loves to embed stones in the bark.


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## PA Plumber (Jan 30, 2007)

Husky137 said:


> Might be a good time to work on your directional felling.
> 
> One of the keys to making logging more efficient is to lay out the "strip" so that you fell your trees all in the same direction. Trying to pick apart tinker toys is a PITA.
> 
> Also, I'd be careful about using a gravel road as a skid trail unless you can get all but the tip up off the ground. Hemlock loves to embed stones in the bark.



Good Point about the gravel.

I didn't explain it very well: I'll try again.

There is a main gravel lane that runs West to East through the harvest area.
I currently have to two old staging areas on the right hand side. I will plan to bring the logs from that side to the staging areas. I'll only use the gravel lane for taking the triaxle in and out. On the left side I will have to make new staging areas to keep from dragging the logs across the gravel lane.

Finally, does it take some serious wedging to get a tree like that to fall when it has no obvious lean?


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## PA Plumber (Jan 30, 2007)

*Pictures*

My "skidder" (running in the pic) It was 19 F this morning. The loader hasn't been ran for at lease 3 1/2 months. 







Clearing out for a 1 acre food plot. Started from scratch. The background is how his area used to look, so thick you couldn't walk through it.







Lane on the left and one of the future staging/landing areas on the right.






A decent Hemlock.


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## stihl 440 (Jan 30, 2007)

I wouldn't worry, that loader will bring them logs out no problem! And yes, it is also a good time to work on directional felling and bucking. So, the hemlocks to be cut are on the right of the 3rd picture? Nice lookin' loader(skidder). And about the tree, I only use 2 wedges on my directional trees, that I have to fall slightly against lean. Mostly so I don't skin other trees that are staying. And so they don't hang up. Then it's a real PITA. I put a wedge on each side of my strap. Pound each wedge in according to which way I want the most lift. Then cut the strap and away it goes. Wish I had a track loader.


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## perchhauler (Jan 30, 2007)

*Fellers*

Wish some of you good fellers were closer to me.... I dont do most of my felling, I have a feller knock down a few, I limb, buck, and skid those, then have him back.. The guy does most of my felling close to home screwed up his back, couldnt start last monday, so I called a friend/ logger about 45 minutes from here, said he could start me this monday, he couldnt get caught up, said can I put off til wednesday?? Sooo here I am waiting for him to call.. Steve


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## PA Plumber (Jan 30, 2007)

What were you being charged for felling? Per hour or per tree? That is something I hadn't though of. Good Idea.


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## Husky137 (Jan 30, 2007)

Looks like an ideal set-up with landings and access.


Wedging a tree with no discernable lean is fairly straightforward, certainly much easier than wedging back against the lean.


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## perchhauler (Jan 30, 2007)

*felling*

The one that usually fells for me around here I pay $20. an hour because I only have him for 2 maybe 3 hours at a time.. The one thats going to start me now said $40. a load.?.. I guess when you figure you have about 4000 feet on the ground its $40... Seems like it would work out about the same.. Steve


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## PA Plumber (Jan 30, 2007)

stihl 440 said:


> I wouldn't worry, that loader will bring them logs out no problem! And yes, it is also a good time to work on directional felling and bucking. So, the hemlocks to be cut are on the right of the 3rd picture? Nice lookin' loader(skidder). And about the tree, I only use 2 wedges on my directional trees, that I have to fall slightly against lean. Mostly so I don't skin other trees that are staying. And so they don't hang up. Then it's a real PITA. I put a wedge on each side of my strap. Pound each wedge in according to which way I want the most lift. Then cut the strap and away it goes. Wish I had a track loader.



Leave a 2" hinge or so and how much back strap? Another 3"? You drive your wedge(s) in before you cut the strap? I gues this would preload the tree for where you want it to go.


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## PA Plumber (Jan 30, 2007)

Alright, next week is the Eastern Outdoor Sports Show. I promised a friend from Alaska I would help (and I enjoy it) with his booth. His wife is busy with taking care of her mom and he will be alone. If any of you are going to the show, his booth is Alaskan Coastal Outfitters. He is in the same hall as the duck calls, 4 wheelers, other guides, etc.

After next week, I would be open for any who are interested in taking a look at what I have. If it helps making it a Saturday, I can oblige. On request, I can also bring donuts. I have to be careful yet (only a couple of months out of shoulder surgery) but can run the track loader, if need be. The property is located near Duncannon. Bring a saw or just take a look it you would like.


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## perchhauler (Jan 30, 2007)

Havent been to that show in years.. I like to go though, its about 2 1/2 hour drive for me.. I was just to that complex about two weeks ago.. Steve


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## stihl 440 (Jan 31, 2007)

PA Plumber said:


> Leave a 2" hinge or so and how much back strap? Another 3"? You drive your wedge(s) in before you cut the strap? I gues this would preload the tree for where you want it to go.



I leave a 3"-2 1/2" strap on big trees. And yes I do pound my wedges before I cut my strap. And it does preload the tree to go where supposed to. Also keeps it from sitting back.


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## stihl 440 (Feb 26, 2007)

*hemlock*

Did you start yet PAplumber?


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## PA Plumber (Feb 26, 2007)

stihl 440 said:


> Did you start yet PAplumber?



Nope. In the last few weeks I have had one offer, and two serious inquiries. If I get a decent offer, I am planning on letting someone else do the job. We'll see. It seems like the people who are serious, want to drop the trees themselves.

Which ever way things turn out, I'll post it. 

Thanks for the reminder.


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## stihl 440 (Feb 26, 2007)

PA Plumber said:


> Nope. In the last few weeks I have had one offer, and two serious inquiries. If I get a decent offer, I am planning on letting someone else do the job. We'll see. It seems like the people who are serious, want to drop the trees themselves.
> 
> Which ever way things turn out, I'll post it.
> 
> Thanks for the reminder.



Let us know how it turns out.


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## PA Plumber (Mar 10, 2007)

Well, I met with a logging fellow from a logging family and I must say I am duly impressed. Still too early to say where this will go, but I would feel comfortable working with him. He did drop a couple of large trees just to show me how to read lean and work a wedge. He dropped some of the average sized trees and walked me through one felling.

It is very neat to see someone do this. Also showed me how to sight my saw. This stuff might seem mundane to some of you, but I am from a "Joe" woodcutter family and have not seen this kind of skill in person before.


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## codlasher (Mar 11, 2007)

I have really enjoyed reading this thread and the advice given. Just sorry that I am way too far away to visit.

I use my County which seems to be nearly the same size as your very neat crawler, to push certain leaners. This is done using the loader up as high as it will go and gently pushing. I leave things like headland leaners as these are just too extreme. If you are unsure of your crawlers capabilities, start small and work upwards.

tawilson mentioned slots cut in angle iron. I use this method for smaller sticks and can skid several out this way. I would recommend one slot be big enough to accept a large diameter 10' long choker chain for the biggest sticks. I feel with chain chokers you have more control bearing in mind that cable chokers are usually worked with winches.

If you opt for cable though, be careful with the whiskers that appear no matter how careful you are and always end up making eyes water!

The set up on the County is a 10 ton Cooks winch fitted to the rear, with a pulley attatched to the ground anchors when they are in the rest position. The cable runs over this pulley and enables me to pull difficult to reach sticks towards the machine and then lift them as the cable becomes vertical. The pulley is approx 5' from the ground and will allow all but the largest diameter sitck to be skidded out. (I have options for cable or chain).

These methods are all aimed at skidding the biggest sticks to a loading bay using the least passes over the ground, scabbing none of the remaining stand and presenting the cleanest mud and stone free produce to the mill.
If you do any home milling you will curse dirty timber.
I hope this helps.
codlasher.


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## tawilson (Mar 11, 2007)

After I got my winch, I found this site which shows how they suggest going about logging. Most of it would apply no matter what you have for equipment. It's worth a look even if you don't do it their way.
http://www.northeastimplement.com/newpage3.htm


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## PA Plumber (Mar 11, 2007)

Thanks for all the advice. 

Even If I don't end up doing this one myself, I still have lots of firewood trees to skid out. I can appreciate the beauty of getting the tree length logs to a landing area to finish cutting and splitting. Sure beats getting the truck and trailer down through the woods.


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## Rick Alger (Mar 11, 2007)

Tom,

That method looks right for softwood, but it could be dangerous in big hardwood. I almost rolled a skidder with a top first hitch of hardwood. Bumper trees along the trail can act as a fulcrum on the forty foot lever of the hitch.

Rick


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## PA Plumber (Mar 24, 2007)

I guess this is as good a place to post this as any.

Took the 441 from 12000 rpm to 13200 today. Big improvement in cutting speed. 

Dropped a few more Hemlocks and limbed out a couple. Think I'll break out the 026 next time I have a bunch of trees to limb. My shoulder is just coming off of major surgery and I start feeling it after limbing 4 trees with the 441. Probably a lot of it is just getting into "logger" mode.

Looks like I am going to drop, limb, and stage the trees. I'm planning to do a couple of truckloads and go from there. 

It was suggested I use a chain choker. Any specific brand or chain diameter? I have wedges and a maul. They have been working just fine for dropping trees. I do need to get a logger tape rule yet and that might do it. I'll try to remember the camera and get a pic of the trees dropped so far.


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## tawilson (Mar 24, 2007)

How long were you out of commision after surgery? I'm going for an mri Monday. I banged mine up snowmobiling years ago, and it's really starting to bother me. I had x-rays, but the doc couldn't tell too much. I'm pretty sure I am going to need surgery.


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## PA Plumber (Mar 24, 2007)

tawilson said:


> How long were you out of commision after surgery? I'm going for an mri Monday. I banged mine up snowmobiling years ago, and it's really starting to bother me. I had x-rays, but the doc couldn't tell too much. I'm pretty sure I am going to need surgery.



I was supposed to be off work for 6 - 9 months. Yikes. I am 3 1/2 months into it. My doctor doesn't know I am cutting wood and dropping trees. My therapist said I'm okay as long as I don't push it. I am only spending 2 to 3 hours at a time dropping and limbing.

Surgery: 10 mm distal clavical resection. The surgeon took a 1/4" off my right clavical. I was rear-ended a couple of years ago and the accident blew the cartilage out from between the acromion and Clavical. I worked a year and a half with it like that and just could hardly lift my arm above my head, or out from my torso, without a lot of agony. Got it "fixed" and it is doing much better.


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## stihl 440 (Mar 24, 2007)

*mode*



PA Plumber said:


> I guess this is as good a place to post this as any.
> 
> Took the 441 from 12000 rpm to 13200 today. Big improvement in cutting speed.
> 
> ...



It is probably you getting into logger mode. Like I said the few days you will be the most tired after that you get into the "groove", it's not so bad then. And yes you will need the logger tape and lots of wedges, they get lost and hit by the saw every now and then. After the 441 breaks in it will be safe to take it to anywhere between 13,600 and 13,800. And I would use the 026 for limbing the hemlocks, the 441 in good for limbing the hardwood. But the 026 will be faster and easier on you in the hemlock. The best way to sell them for the most money is to get sawmills to bid on the logs in the landing whoever gives the largest price gets the logs. Hemlock isn't hard to move, sawmills around here redily? want it.


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## PA Plumber (Mar 25, 2007)

I forgot to mention, no real issues with shake yet. Have a big log I had to cut about 10' off to get rid of some worm looking rings. Other than that, trees are solid. 

I must say, it is cool to drop a 24" dbh hemlock by wedging it over. It still scares the pants off of me to be cutting at the bottom of those 100' + trees, but I am starting to have a little more confidence in the saw and the wedges.


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## kevinj (Mar 25, 2007)

PA Plumber said:


> I was supposed to be off work for 6 - 9 months. Yikes. I am 3 1/2 months into it. My doctor doesn't know I am cutting wood and dropping trees.



Tell ya what there PA.
You send me that 441,
and I won't say a word to your doctor.

DEAL ?
OR,
NO DEAL ?

:monkey:


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## stihl 440 (Mar 25, 2007)

*3ft*



PA Plumber said:


> I forgot to mention, no real issues with shake yet. Have a big log I had to cut about 10' off to get rid of some worm looking rings. Other than that, trees are solid.
> 
> I must say, it is cool to drop a 24" dbh hemlock by wedging it over. It still scares the pants off of me to be cutting at the bottom of those 100' + trees, but I am starting to have a little more confidence in the saw and the wedges.



Just wait, if you get a rush off a 24" tree, just wait until you start dropping trees in the 3-4 ft range. When they come down they make a boom. And the more trees you drop the more confidence you will have. Also the more trees you drop the better you will get at it.


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## PA Plumber (Mar 25, 2007)

kevinj said:


> Tell ya what there PA.
> You send me that 441,
> and I won't say a word to your doctor.
> 
> ...



No thanks. But appreciate the gesture.


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## PA Plumber (Apr 13, 2007)

Had a load of logs picked up today. Hopefully another will be picked up next week. Here are some pics. Please pardon the pictures. I forgot my regular camera today and had to use a trail camera.

1st stack staged






1st stack continued





2nd stack





Look ma, no shake.





2nd stack and "skidder"


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## PA Plumber (Apr 13, 2007)

Uh-Oh. I had a hand shake agreement with a buyer to take two loads. I said he could pick through the two staged stacks to take what he wants. His brother came today and took all the large logs out of each stack. Just before leaving, he said he didn't think his brother would want the other load. I told him his brother had come out to take a look and had agreed to the price and arrangements. I am willing to throw a couple of nice logs on the pile to help out, but this is frustrating. Especially when the buyer personally looked over the logs before we made the deal. I am going to try to work with the guy and I'll post what has happened, in case anyone is interested.

I guess, "Welcome to Logging, Where the Seller must Beware!" is in order here.:bang:


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## Ryan Willock (Apr 13, 2007)

Thats par for the course I've seen "deals" like that before. Yep, in logging its Logger beware!!!


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## stihl 440 (Apr 13, 2007)

*logging*



PA Plumber said:


> Had a load of logs picked up today. Hopefully another will be picked up next week. Here are some pics. Please pardon the pictures. I forgot my regular camera today and had to use a trail camera.
> 
> 1st stack staged
> 
> ...



Your landing looks good. How is it working out on the cutting end of it? As we all know you can get easily ripped if you don't sell the logs right. And yea the guy that you told to take what he wants, sort of ripped you, maybe not in price but in logs. I would get log paint and mark the ends of logs with different colors of paint for each mill so they know what logs to get. Make sure you tally your logs also before they take their load. That way there is less risk on getting ripped. Does you mill pay by the small end? If so then shorter lengths of logs will get you more money. Looks like you're doing good so far! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## PA Plumber (Apr 13, 2007)

stihl 440 said:


> Your landing looks good. How is it working out on the cutting end of it? As we all know you can get easily ripped if you don't sell the logs right. And yea the guy that you told to take what he wants, sort of ripped you, maybe not in price but in logs. I would get log paint and mark the ends of logs with different colors of paint for each mill so they know what logs to get. Make sure you tally your logs also before they take their load. That way there is less risk on getting ripped. Does you mill pay by the small end? If so then shorter lengths of logs will get you more money. Looks like you're doing good so far! :hmm3grin2orange:



This was a local guy who wanted the logs for siding. I told him he could pick through the two stacks as long as he was taking two loads. We agreed on a price for the two loads. I still need to talk to him, and he may come back for the rest. He hit me as a straight up fellow, so we'll see what happens. Just a little frustrating when the buyer tells me one thing and his brother shows up to pick up logs and tells me another. I'll be talking with the buyer next week. Hopefully it works out. We have good timber and there may be a chance he'll want more.

The next company I'm planning to cut for has different prices for different lenghths. The best rate is the longer lenghths (18' to 20'). They do pay by the small end. They are to send me new spec sheets soon. 

The landing and staging areas are working out. There are a lot of trees my machine can't move until I get them bucked. It sure is better bucking at the landing than on the side of a ridge/hill.


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## PA Plumber (Apr 19, 2007)

Another update.

Got paid for the first load and the buyer wants the second. Whew!! It looks like he is going to pull through on the two loads but we'll see.

Here is a picture of 3 trees I dropped today. There is a tree clear to the left, one clear to the right and another in the middle. Once I get them moved, I'll drop more that will end up in the same area as these are.


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