# hired my first Guatamalans yesterday



## Treeinnovator (Jul 4, 2007)

hired my first Guatamalans yesterday. WOW am i impressed !!!
these guys are like renting a bunch of mini-loaders. they work like robot ants. hardly any breaks, no whining, no complaining, willing to work for 12 hours straight, and will lift ANYTHING on their shoulders.

I will NEVER EVER hire another white male again. I'm white and i know how we all think and work. we don't hold a candle to their guatamalan work ethic. you truly get double the work out of them for the same pay rate.


----------



## DDM (Jul 4, 2007)

How do you communicate with them?


----------



## BostonBull (Jul 4, 2007)

Ho are you not banned yet?


----------



## joesawer (Jul 4, 2007)

Bombs Away!!!


----------



## PA Plumber (Jul 4, 2007)

TI,
A lot of these types of posts seem to be dissing one person or another in the wages department. Not sure I understand the purpose of this thread.

I'm trying very hard not to be critical, just looking for the reasoning behind your posts


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 4, 2007)

DDM said:


> How do you communicate with them?



they speak some english. mostly no communication is needed. they've been doing landscape and tree work for years. all i did was point to the 8 palm removals and then pointed to the truck/chipper. they knew what to do.

these guys started loading 4ft and 5ft logs on their shoulders and carrying them from the backyard to the front. no other white guy ever did that. my previous workers always asked to cut them smaller and used a dolly. these guys are machines.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 4, 2007)

PA Plumber said:


> TI,
> A lot of these types of posts seem to be dissing one person or another in the wages department. Not sure I understand the purpose of this thread.
> 
> I'm trying very hard not to be critical, just looking for the reasoning behind your posts



it's dissing myself as well then.
we always hear rumors about different types of workers... mexicans, whites, blacks, etc. this is not a racial thread. it's a thread commending the strong work ethics of the Guatamalan people. i have tremendous respect for them after hiring them and seeing them in action.


----------



## Old Monkey (Jul 5, 2007)

I am not certain how serious this thread is but all the Guatemalans I have ever worked with have been excellent workers and VERY polite. I don't hire undocumented workers and I don't recommend it. People want to blame our problems on illegal aliens but most I have met are hard working family oriented people with impeccable work ethics.


----------



## Jumper (Jul 5, 2007)

Treeinnovator said:


> they speak some english. mostly no communication is needed. they've been doing landscape and tree work for years. all i did was point to the 8 palm removals and then pointed to the truck/chipper. they knew what to do.
> 
> these guys started loading 4ft and 5ft logs on their shoulders and carrying them from the backyard to the front. no other white guy ever did that. my previous workers always asked to cut them smaller and used a dolly. these guys are machines.



So no safety briefing that they could understand, or any other instructions other than you pointing? Boy I would like to see the OSH people go wild should you ever have a situation where they decide to visit. 

What is so wrong with cutting wood into manageable pieces and using a dolly? You have confirmed in my mind that you are a troll. And if you really do exist, a slavedriver.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 5, 2007)

Jumper said:


> So no safety briefing that they could understand, or any other instructions other than you pointing? Boy I would like to see the OSH people go wild should you ever have a situation where they decide to visit.
> 
> What is so wrong with cutting wood into manageable pieces and using a dolly? You have confirmed in my mind that you are a troll. And if you really do exist, a slavedriver.



they are doing groundwork and have done this work for years.

cutting wood takes twice the time...to cut twice and drag twice the same log. these guys just take it all with no problems. 

i'm not a slavedriver. i was so impressed with what they did i gave them more money than i ever paid my previous workers. i truly felt like they are comparable to using a mini-loader.

best part is; they NEVER once used their cell phones while working. only used the phones during lunch. my other workers will get a call from their girlfriends and literally stop what they are doing and use it as an excuse to take a 15 minute break. i wouldn't care except the girlfriends call every half hour.


----------



## Bermie (Jul 5, 2007)

4 and 5 ft palm logs, I hope you have en endless supply for when their backs give out.opcorn: 
Have you got them on health insurance to cover the physio for strains? Workman's comp for ruptured disks?
Or do you expect them to pay for their own medical treatment out of those 'higher' wages you're paying them!


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 5, 2007)

Bermie said:


> 4 and 5 ft palm logs, I hope you have en endless supply for when their backs give out.opcorn:
> Have you got them on health insurance to cover the physio for strains? Workman's comp for ruptured disks?
> Or do you expect them to pay for their own medical treatment out of those 'higher' wages you're paying them!



endless supply? heck yeah Bermie. just look at what landed on Miami Beach this morning... 50 workers ready for me to pick them up tomorrow (with a smile on their face and no cell phones).
here's the news article from today:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...bans,0,4407400.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 5, 2007)

gotta love the Sun-Sentinel. they even gave me the location of where to pick up my new workers... "79th and Collins Ave in Surfside"

thank you Sun-Sentinel, you're the best !!!
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...bans,0,4407400.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines


----------



## Bermie (Jul 5, 2007)

Treeinnovator said:


> gotta love the Sun-Sentinel. they even gave me the location of where to pick up my new workers... "79th and Collins Ave in Surfside"
> 
> thank you Sun-Sentinel, you're the best !!!
> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...bans,0,4407400.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines



Ooohhh dear....opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:


----------



## jrparbor04 (Jul 5, 2007)

this is the type of thing that makes us Certified Arborist look bad in our industry.


----------



## Treeman587 (Jul 5, 2007)

That is Great, I am really happy for you TI. Yeah those lil bastards work like crazy. When I save up enough Marlboro miles I am gonna order myself a set. 

Okay let the whining continue


----------



## Climb020 (Jul 5, 2007)

jrparbor04 said:


> this is the type of thing that makes us Certified Arborist look bad in our industry.



And our insurance rates hire. Might want to find out how to say 
"don't do that you will kill yourself" in spanish at the least.


----------



## Treeman587 (Jul 5, 2007)

Oh and before you attack me. You must realize that is thread is prolly just another attempt to get everyone riled up. Look who started it


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Jul 5, 2007)

Can they say...............*I exploded my left nut*!!!

Wait until their medical bill is on your dime!!!


----------



## osb_mail (Jul 5, 2007)

I do have to say that Guatemalans I have worked with were hard worker , easy to get along with , no long breaks , most spoke English and carried some of the most horrible smelling lunches every.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 5, 2007)

Let those who have never worked for cash throw the first stone.

I cannot say I approve of people who hire cash only daylabor, but If I complained I would be hypocritical, having been such when I got out of the USMC, and between jobs after that. Once I was able to demonstrate climbing skills I could find a job anywhere.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 5, 2007)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Let those who have never worked for cash throw the first stone.
> 
> I cannot say I approve of people who hire cash only daylabor, but If I complained I would be hypocritical, having been such when I got out of the USMC, and between jobs after that. Once I was able to demonstrate climbing skills I could find a job anywhere.



thanks JPS
well said. i don't know ANYONE in the landscaping industry who hasn't once picked up an extra hand when slammed with work or if their regular guy calls in sick. it's part of this industry. the whole reason i hired them to begin with is that two of my workers didn't show up that morning.


----------



## Thillmaine (Jul 5, 2007)

*Guats*

I work with a 59 year old guatemalen, and he is one of the hardest working guys I have ever worked with. Dont get me wrong, he is legal and speaks english, but has a incredible work ethic. He told me he worked yesterday, on July 4th. I waspretty impressed. At the same time, I dont think the ethinicity of the people has anything to do witht heir work ethic. Its just like us crackaz, some have good work ethic, some dont. It is what it is..


----------



## GottaCut (Jul 5, 2007)

Thillmaine said:


> I dont think the ethinicity of the people has anything to do witht heir work ethic. Its just like us crackaz, some have good work ethic, some dont. It is what it is..



Exactly, I worked on the 4th too.....so what! I cant stand people who spend more time trying to get out of work than they do working, many whom I've known are white. But it doesnt matter your ethnicity, I've found hard workers and lazy-asses in every color and size. Foreign workers bust their ass so much because they come from such under-priviledged places and havent had all the things we take for granted. That and if you get them through a program and they get fired they go bye-bye.


----------



## joesawer (Jul 6, 2007)

I wonder if Treeinovator is pure satire or troll.


----------



## SilentElk (Jul 6, 2007)

I do believe this guys are an upgrade from the guys you convinced to climb trees instead of flip burgers.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 6, 2007)

SilentElk said:


> I do believe this guys are an upgrade from the guys you convinced to climb trees instead of flip burgers.



yes they are. major upgrade. like i said, i don't think i'll ever hire a white guy again.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 6, 2007)

GottaCut said:


> Exactly, I worked on the 4th too.....so what! I cant stand people who spend more time trying to get out of work than they do working, many whom I've known are white. .



my (white) workers demanded having the 4th of July off + the day after. they said they needed the extra day to recoup from hang overs. this is the BS you get with them.

the Guatemalans kept asking me if i could hire them 6 days a week regardless of holidays.


----------



## oldirty (Jul 6, 2007)

hey man, nothing wrong with the guats. just dont let them run your rope in hairy situations. thats all.

gotta have the communication with your groundguy and if he dont understand what you are saying no matter how loud you are yelling it wont matter. 

lol.

just out of curiousity do you have them stand under the butts when you drop them so you dont put ruts in the lawn?



oldirty


----------



## Treeman587 (Jul 6, 2007)

What about a FOREIGNER working on the 4th impresses you? What do they care about OUR independance day?


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 6, 2007)

Treeman587 said:


> What about a FOREIGNER working on the 4th impresses you? What do they care about OUR independance day?



hey my regular workers could care less about our forefathers. they were just using the 4th as an excuse to party on a weekday. same difference. 

well, it's 11am. time to go get lunch for the guys. they are having a 2 for $2 special on hotdogs at the gas station's convenience store this week. i'll hook them up with a 69 cent gallon of water and they'll be set.


----------



## ShoerFast (Jul 6, 2007)

Troll alert!



Treeinnovator said:


> two of my workers didn't show up that morning.



Most of us know that if your listen close enough, or long enough we can learn everything we want to.

Whats the chance that most of us are holding the same opinion that the two 'white-guys' that walked have?

One of the best employee - employer questions to ask is why there hiring, or what happened to the last guy(s) 

Just my opinion, reading into other post, this guy has to jeopardize safety with burger flippers and illegals.


----------



## ddhlakebound (Jul 6, 2007)

ShoerFast said:


> Troll alert!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My thoughts too......He's not nearly qualified to operate or employ, and every single qualified applicant he finds will recognize this within a day. So if he wants to operate, he is forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel. 

It's an obvious deficency in his personality that he likes to come here and brag about all his "overhead saving tips" and "expense cutting tactics". Interestingly enough, bragging about hiring illegals, on the 4th of July no less, is discussion of illegal activities. Does that fall under #4 of the guidelines?

I've been ignoring his posts, as he isn't worth the time and effort, and replying to him only fuels his trollish nature. 

If the people hiring illegals got shipped back with the illegals when they were caught, there would be a lot less hiring of illegals. I wonder if Immigration and Naturalization would be interested in his "operation"?


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 6, 2007)

ddhlakebound said:


> If the people hiring illegals got shipped back with the illegals when they were caught, there would be a lot less hiring of illegals. I wonder if Immigration and Naturalization would be interested in his "operation"?



if they got shipped back with them, 99% of the tree and lawn company owners would be relocated to Central America. also your produce and food ingrediants (like sugar) would skyrocket in price. that's why our government is legalizing these workers by the millions.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 6, 2007)

ShoerFast said:


> Whats the chance that most of us are holding the same opinion that the two 'white-guys' that walked have?



they were hung over. that's the problem with the 20 something kids these days. they're not motivated by anything these days because they have a sense of entitlement and it's much easier to ask mom and dad for money than to work for it.

50 years from now it will be the Central and South Americans that will control the wealth in the USA. just like our ancestors came over from Europe with nothing and worked in the mills.


----------



## Thillmaine (Jul 6, 2007)

*(snip)*

(SNIP)

Secondly, I am a 22 year old white american boy, with a college education that I paid for myself, with a pesticide license and arborist license. Also working towards my CDL. I paid for my truck, my apt. my insurance, cloithes, yada yada yada. My parents gave me some things, but its not jus tlike a gimme. I worked for everything I got. Dont make such broad generalizations, its all about how you are raised and the work ethic your parents are portraying to you. Obvsiouly you have gotten some idiots who think they deserver somerthing for nothing. THats not everyone, its your own fault for not firing them or recognizing that before you hired them... Oh and another thing,
if your guys cant handle their drinking, then get rid of them... Obvsiouly a lot of people drink on fourth of july, but if they have any sort of respect fore their job, they will learn to control themselves bewcause they have to work the next day. I work with 60 something guys everyday, and not one was missing on the day after july 4th. Maybe its the boss, not the guys?


----------



## Magnum783 (Jul 6, 2007)

I am with thil I don't have quite the stuff he has I am a twenty something kid. I have a degree in welding and metals fabrication and do tree work as well as being a full time military member. Both me and my partner are in our twenties and are full time GIs and we have great work ethic. I agree it is all how you were brought up. Thanks thil for sticking up for the rest of us doing right.
Jared


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Jul 6, 2007)

Magnum783 said:


> Thanks thil for sticking up for the rest of us doing right.
> Jared




Damn straight on that one!!!


Treeinnovator.............can you hang with your foreign help???


----------



## Art Szabo (Jul 7, 2007)

*Thillmaine and Magnum 783*

I am 56 years old and I am very proud of you both as I am sure your fathers are also. However you must know that your lives are exemplary and not ordinary. You are not the "average" boy on the block and have worked hard not to be. My hat is off to you.
The comment made by Treeinnovator was what is commonly known as a generality. It is not intended to apply equally to ALL young men in their twenties. It was a general consensus of young men in America today and I totally agree with it. Everywhere I look today I see young men in that age group that can't even properly dress themselves evidenced by their pants hanging off their asses. Their main mode of transportation is a skateboard or a stolen bicycle. They wouldn't be interested in a good job if one was offered, just as well because they would be unable to do it. This is the norm accross the country. This is the contrast between you guys and the rest of them, I praise you both for breaking from the norm and following/ pursuing the better road.
You were totally out of line for calling a total stranger an "ignorant, uneducated fool" simply because he doesn't see you in Boston and Goldsboro from where he is. You are NOT representative of your age group! You are different. Now in the future when you hear disparaging remarks about your age group consider it a compliment and not a personal attack on your character.
Art


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 7, 2007)

Art Szabo said:


> I am 56 years old and I am very proud of you both as I am sure your fathers are also. However you must know that your lives are exemplary and not ordinary. You are not the "average" boy on the block and have worked hard not to be. My hat is off to you.
> The comment made by Treeinnovator was what is commonly known as a generality. It is not intended to apply equally to ALL young men in their twenties. It was a general consensus of young men in America today and I totally agree with it. Everywhere I look today I see young men in that age group that can't even properly dress themselves evidenced by their pants hanging off their asses. Their main mode of transportation is a skateboard or a stolen bicycle. They wouldn't be interested in a good job if one was offered, just as well because they would be unable to do it. This is the norm accross the country. This is the contrast between you guys and the rest of them, I praise you both for breaking from the norm and following/ pursuing the better road.
> You were totally out of line for calling a total stranger an "ignorant, uneducated fool" simply because he doesn't see you in Boston and Goldsboro from where he is. You are NOT representative of your age group! You are different. Now in the future when you hear disparaging remarks about your age group consider it a compliment and not a personal attack on your character.
> Art



well said. 
and don't forget the whole "my cellphone is ringing again, time for another 15 minute break"

if it's true, those 2 guys are truly different and should take it as a compliment. however, the trend i see is that most of my white workers "think" they are hard workers. they really honestly do and are totally convinced in their heads that they are working their butts off. it's not until they work alongside an immigrant do you see the huge difference...and it's not even comparable in any way.


----------



## Art Szabo (Jul 7, 2007)

*Treeinnovator*

I had the distinct privelege and honor to be the supervisor on a totallly immigrant crew (16 men) in Toronto back in 1990. It is an experience I will never forget. I had two brothers from Russia, Peter and Ivan, Peter could speak about twenty words in English and Ivan NONE! I had guys from Nigeria, Guam, Trinidad, India, Suadi Arabia and I forget the rest. Almost all communication was from gestures and drawings made on the spot. I have never seen men so dedicated and hard working in my life. I made a real crew out of them. I respected them all and treated them with a dignity they had never known. We worked together for six months. They spray painted grafitti on the walls of a building saying "God bless Mr. Art" and "We love Mr. Art". I - we nearly wept the day we parted, we hugged and shook hands and exchanged well wishes and all went our separate ways. I have often wondered how they all are and still get the pictures out and reminisce. We were a team.
Art


----------



## nytreeman (Jul 7, 2007)

I've never personally hired any but I have worked with LEGAL immigrants in the past,several russians,bosnians,poles and some mexicans,and they are like anyone else some are better than others but they come from parts of the world where thay might not have anything thats why there here,to work.So most do try to impress because they need the money to support their families.But then that money goes to other countries and thats a whole other issue.
The one thing I do agree with TI is the cel phone thing,that does p!ss me off when I'm looking for my groundy and hes on the cel phone sitting in the truck arguing with the wife!


----------



## tree md (Jul 7, 2007)

I don't usually feed trolls but figured I would put in my 02 here. 

One of the guys I worked for in the past hired non-English speaking help and ended up paying for it with his life. They had the cable stretched out on the boom truck and the guy was screaming at them to not take the choker off of the log. They thought he was yelling at them to hurry up and went ahead and took it off allowing the cable to swing back into a power line Killing my old boss and his top hand. All because he couldn't communicate with his help.


----------



## ddhlakebound (Jul 7, 2007)

Art Szabo said:


> You were totally out of line for calling a total stranger an "ignorant, uneducated fool" simply because he doesn't see you in Boston and Goldsboro from where he is.
> 
> Art



Art, are you not in favor of calling a spade a spade? Treeminator/Treeinnovator is quite literally an ignorant, uneducated fool. Spend a few minutes reading his posts under his current screenname, and his old banned one. 

He brings nothing to this forum but boasts, lies, and controversy. His only value here is to play the village idiot.


----------



## ddhlakebound (Jul 7, 2007)

*Two sides to every story.....*

Most of the people posting on this forum have spent time as both employers and employees. Some state that as employees they rarely found a leader worth following, or working hard for. Some state that as employers that it is impossible to find honest, hardworking help. Both are accurate. Employees exhist in all age ranges of qualities ranging from worthless and unemployable to "best man I ever had" and "good enough to be my foreman". 

The crux of the matter is the person leading these employees. If you have a "boss" who is unwilling to fairly reward his people, unable to treat them with the respect they deserve as people, unable to motivate themselves enough to hire and train people to be the employees they need, unwilling to cut his losses when he hires a turd, (because they're all turds, and the next one will be a new turd), and in some cases, simply not intelligent enough to know what is needed to hire, train, and create quality employees, you get a situation where the "boss" believes all employees are worthless, due to his own unrecognized shortcomings. 

If you want to be successful as an employer, you MUST lead by example. You MUST reward your people fairly for the effort they provide, and the profit they enable you to earn. You MUST treat each employee with respect and dignity. You MUST be able to motivate yourself to find and properly train people to be who and what you need. You MUST be willing to fire the "turds", because even the guy who is near perfect in hiring will still find some turds. And you MUST have the intelligence to learn from your mistakes, and develop and refine the process which takes a new hire from "newb" to "my best guy". 

Sure, there are lots of horrible employees out there. There are lots of great ones too. Bad parenting, bad companies, and bad bosses all have their part in creating bad employees. A good leader can overcome these hardships and create a crew of competent hard workers. By being a leader instead of a boss, and by leading by example. 

I spent four years working for the son of a man who built the company. The old man had worked his butt off to build a successful, multi unit company. The son had this company handed to him on a silver platter, and I watched as the son grew into his new position as the big man. Even though his father made him start at the bottom, doing grunt work and learning how to operate every phase of the company, he still evolved very quickly into a greedy, powerloving, tyrant of a boss. He shed the leader robe entirely. Up to this point, I had been a model employee, to the tune of "best numbers the company has ever seen." My units annual sales was just over a million/yr when I started. It was nearly 1.3 million 3 yrs later, while the other units were flat or slower growing. I was producing more, and taking a higher percentage to the bottom line. I was paid, at the most, 38k, with my raises stagnating, and my "boss" learning new tricks to make more money by cutting the quality of the product and service. So what happened?

I became a horrible employee, and I was in charge of 30+ people. I'd show up late on purpose. I'd leave early. I'd assign assistants jobs I'd normally do, and then not check on their progress or completion. My boss and I fought each other through a downward spiral which ended with me being fired. Thank god....I'd worked hard to make him fire me, and I'd almost given up the week before and quit. Sure, I cut off my own nose to spite my face. I'd worked my butt off to help improve on a good operation, and my efforts were not shown any rewards or respect. So why should I continue to put as much profit as possible in my "bosses" pocket? 

Want good employees? Then you can't be a greedy boss, you've got to be a respectful and respectable leader.


----------



## MNTAINGAL23 (Jul 7, 2007)

ddhlakebound said:


> Most of the people posting on this forum have spent time as both employers and employees. Some state that as employees they rarely found a leader worth following, or working hard for. Some state that as employers that it is impossible to find honest, hardworking help. Both are accurate. Employees exhist in all age ranges of qualities ranging from worthless and unemployable to "best man I ever had" and "good enough to be my foreman".
> 
> The crux of the matter is the person leading these employees. If you have a "boss" who is unwilling to fairly reward his people, unable to treat them with the respect they deserve as people, unable to motivate themselves enough to hire and train people to be the employees they need, unwilling to cut his losses when he hires a turd, (because they're all turds, and the next one will be a new turd), and in some cases, simply not intelligent enough to know what is needed to hire, train, and create quality employees, you get a situation where the "boss" believes all employees are worthless, due to his own unrecognized shortcomings.
> 
> ...





You hit the nail right on the head. People ususally hire people like themselves. Maybe subconcously but it does happen. I have seen it many times.


----------



## Art Szabo (Jul 7, 2007)

*ddhlakebound*

WOW! You hit the nail dead on the head! It is a fine balance. It takes work to get it there and dedication to keep it there. I wish you great success Sir.
Art


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 7, 2007)

ddhlakebound said:


> Most of the people posting on this forum have spent time as both employers and employees. Some state that as employees they rarely found a leader worth following, or working hard for. Some state that as employers that it is impossible to find honest, hardworking help. Both are accurate. Employees exhist in all age ranges of qualities ranging from worthless and unemployable to "best man I ever had" and "good enough to be my foreman".
> 
> The crux of the matter is the person leading these employees. If you have a "boss" who is unwilling to fairly reward his people, unable to treat them with the respect they deserve as people, unable to motivate themselves enough to hire and train people to be the employees they need, unwilling to cut his losses when he hires a turd, (because they're all turds, and the next one will be a new turd), and in some cases, simply not intelligent enough to know what is needed to hire, train, and create quality employees, you get a situation where the "boss" believes all employees are worthless, due to his own unrecognized shortcomings.
> 
> ...



this all sounds fine and dandy and makes for a great page out of some manager's consulting 101 guide book. but let's face it ...today's kids suck at work. i'd agree if it were a few instances here and there. but it's not and you all know what i'm talking about. goto work tomorrow and count how many times your co-workers "must" answer their cell phone during work. 20 years ago there was no such thing. i've tried many forms of incentives and compensation. i've tried contracting, hourly, salary. it doesn't matter when dealing with 20 something white workers. they are freakin' a lazy generation as a whole.

just this week one of my workers demanded to get off early in the middle of a huge removal for personal reasons. later i found out he has a new girlfriend and she get's off her job at 2pm every day and he wants to go see her. WTF?????? you goto work and save your girlfriend crap til after 5pm. 

another one says he can't work in the extreme heat and can't work when it's raining... i said, "welcome to Florida, sounds like you need a desk job".

another guy said he wasn't going to top a tree unless he got "a cut" on top of his agreed hourly rate. who the F#$% is he to try and tell me what i'm going to do after he already agreed. this isn't a profit sharing business. I'm already paying him what he wanted, now he tries to hustle for more just because he sees how much the customer is paying me. i told him, "you want 25% of this removal, then buy 25% of my business."

and everyday they take off an hour lunch and then it takes them another hour to get back to work. i swear they just sit there and look at the tree and complain how their stomachs are full and feeling lathargic.

another one: "but you make $1500 a day and finding tree work is so easy, why you gotta be so greedy". that one burns me up. you little punk, i built up a strong client base over many years and invested tons of money into my equipment. it's called a reward paying off. something that whole generation doesn't grasp. they think a "reward paying off" is when they turn 26 and their trust fund becomes available.

all this has NOTHING to do with the leadership abilities of the boss. i hear this crap from these white guys whether they are new or old employees. it's how they are raised. it's a whole socio-generation flaw we're dealing with. 

AND ALL THE WHILE, IMMIGRANTS DON'T DO ANY OF THESE THINGS. they show up, get the job done, and go home with money earned. i've never had to tell them to get back to work or hang up the cell phone. they take 1/2 lunches and it's right back to work at the same speed. i swear the only complaint i ever got from the immigrants was that i didn't have more work for them. they are money motivated and would work 18 hrs a day 6 days a week if you let them.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 7, 2007)

forgot one more.
we're all choppin and droppin this removal right. chipper guy is feeding the chipper and impatiently waiting for more and then mr. white guy 24yr old groundie's phone rings. now he knows i get pissed about the phone thing. so what does he do? he uses one hand to drag brush to the chipper and one hand to hold the cell phone while he talks for the next 15 minutes. he literally carries one small branch at a time to the chipper. WTF?
but he actually think it's ok to do this and in his head he honestly believes he's working hard because he never took a break to answer the call. burns me up everytime.


----------



## squad143 (Jul 7, 2007)

Art Szabo said:


> "I had the distinct privelege and honor to be the supervisor on a totallly immigrant crew (16 men) in Toronto back in 1990."
> 
> With you as supervisor I guess it was a TOTALLY Immigrant crew. (lol). I hope you were working up here legally.
> 
> Sounds like you had a good time in the land of the beaver.


----------



## jrparbor04 (Jul 7, 2007)

sounds to me that i would hate to work for a crap boss like yourself :notrolls2:


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 7, 2007)

jrparbor04 said:


> sounds to me that i would hate to work for a crap boss like yourself :notrolls2:



if it sounds like that to you it's probably because you do the things i referenced. in that case i wouldn't want you to work for me.


----------



## ShoerFast (Jul 7, 2007)

Treeinnovator said:


> if it sounds like that to you it's probably because you do the things i referenced. in that case i wouldn't want you to work for me.



You wouldn't know what to do with a real employee!


----------



## jrparbor04 (Jul 7, 2007)

Treeinnovator said:


> if it sounds like that to you it's probably because you do the things i referenced. in that case i wouldn't want you to work for me.


buddy,,,you couldnt keep up with me,,,and you couldnt pay me enough to be in your presence in the tree care industry,,,,


I.S.A Certified Arborist


----------



## l2edneck (Jul 7, 2007)

never ceases to amaze me the level of morons produced everyday,TI ive had bosses like you in yer new boots every week and yer shiny truck.Every night at the strip club trying to buy a life gimmie a fn break......LLLLLoser.

I am now stupider fer having opened this thread as are you all besides TI because it a shame the ignorant never see it.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 7, 2007)

l2edneck said:


> never ceases to amaze me the level of morons produced everyday,TI ive had bosses like you in yer new boots every week and yer shiny truck..



is that the impression you get? that i have shiny boots because i don't lift a finger? 

i work in the trenches along with everyone. i drag brush, walk the limbs, and spit sawdust chunks everyday. the boots i where are usually filthy, wet, and full of sawdust.

if you come to our jobsite, i'm easy to find. jus look for the guy with the sweat soaked shirt who's not on the phone.


----------



## B-Edwards (Jul 7, 2007)

I'm ISA certified , I have to say I agree with most of the things TI has said. Just today i was going to buy another pair of Danner boots and I'll be dam-ed this pair is made in China. Wonder why????? Maybe it's different where most of you are but around here I'd swear most of the same guys that work for Ti work here also. I question myself alot making sure I am being fare to my employees and I am. We are living in the age of entitlement ,no-one wants to pay their dues and climb a ladder. When it's all gone to China and people cant afford tree care we will see where the cream is. I appreciate an honest worker and compensate them the way they should be. I do agree with Ti in that if you are against most of what he's said then maybe ,,,,,,,,,,,


----------



## Art Szabo (Jul 7, 2007)

*squad143*

Yes I was legal and double yes I had an awesome time in the land of the Beaver. I was and am very impressed with the Canadian people. They are without a doubt the friendliest people you would ever want to meet. Toronto is a huge huge city to a country boy like me, but I never felt like I was in a big city. It was more like a sprawling small town that never seemed to end. Never did figure out how to find my way around very good. I lived in Mississauga in an unfinished condo. There were 31 of us altogether. We were hired to remove the machinery from Arrowhead Metals and load it on trucks and rail cars for shipment elsewhere.
I guess it never dawned me till now that I too was an immigrant. Everybody just treated me so good and I felt so at home that it wasn't like I had left my native country. I went to the bars alot and as soon as they figured out that I was from the States I couldn't spend any money. They would crowd around me each insisting I try his brand of Canadian beer. They told me that I had never had real beer before -- they were right. It was all good - real good. I was up there for eight months and there was not an unpleasant moment in the entire experience.
Art


----------



## ropensaddle (Jul 8, 2007)

Treeinnovator said:


> if it sounds like that to you it's probably because you do the things i referenced. in that case i wouldn't want you to work for me.



First I could work you in the dirt boy ! Second is, Americans are not lazy
but they are not motivated by competing with a third world labor rates.
Sure some are mommas boys and fat and lazy but they have them else where.
I wonder what you are gonna do when you foreign labor force decides
to cut the middle man out ,as it will and does happen all the time.
Want to compete with bidding half of what you are now just to get
a job or two a week? That has already happened here and people
like you are turning business to chit are you illegal?


----------



## a_lopa (Jul 8, 2007)

Can you organise some Guatamalans to come to Australia for a "holiday"??


----------



## beowulf343 (Jul 8, 2007)

ddhlakebound said:


> I became a horrible employee, and I was in charge of 30+ people. I'd show up late on purpose. I'd leave early. I'd assign assistants jobs I'd normally do, and then not check on their progress or completion. My boss and I fought each other through a downward spiral which ended with me being fired. Thank god....I'd worked hard to make him fire me, and I'd almost given up the week before and quit. Sure, I cut off my own nose to spite my face. I'd worked my butt off to help improve on a good operation, and my efforts were not shown any rewards or respect. So why should I continue to put as much profit as possible in my "bosses" pocket?



Ddh-i agree with everything you said but this paragraph right here. Why become a bad employee instead of just quiting? Around here, the tree community is rather small-if you are a bad employee for one outfit, every other outfit in the county will know about it and won't hire you. Personally, i'd much rather have my work record show that i quit rather than i got fired. Acting like a bad employee can hurt your reputation. Just my $.02.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 8, 2007)

a_lopa said:


> Can you organise some Guatamalans to come to Australia for a "holiday"??



don't you guys have the whole SE Asia laborers over there?


----------



## chainsawjunky (Jul 8, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Ddh-i agree with everything you said but this paragraph right here. Why become a bad employee instead of just quiting? Around here, the tree community is rather small-if you are a bad employee for one outfit, every other outfit in the county will know about it and won't hire you. Personally, i'd much rather have my work record show that i quit rather than i got fired. Acting like a bad employee can hurt your reputation. Just my $.02.


The way I interpreted that paragraph was that he wanted to bring the boss as far down with him as he could before he quit. And probably because he was still getting paid. I could be wrong and he's the only one with the real answer.

Evan


----------



## B-Edwards (Jul 8, 2007)

The truth is on the the net , on this forum, anywhere you cant really see the people or the problems you just never know who actually is or isnt what they say. I have had talks with employees in the past who told me how great there are and they should be making huge money. Have you ever noticed those same people never make what they think they should. Is it because of a greedy boss? Maybe but more times than not its because they have no clue how little they contribute to anyones profit. Some people have a problem on the job and fix it, others (most around here ) couldn't be happier ,its a reason to sit around and wait for it to be fixed by someone else. The guy climbing the ladder is usually doing it because he's busting his hump day in day out. He gets a raise because he's doing more than he's paid for. Can anyone do the math on that equation? Then you have the guy who's trying really hard and his fellow employees cant tell him enough what a brown noser he is. I shouldn't even be responding to this , its just preaching to the choir. The lazy whiners will never be anything but that . I know Ti comes off as rude but I see so much truth in what he says. Take a man thats had to work to EAT ,which by the way you cant starve in the USA, other countries you can starve and thats why they know what honest work is about. Around here there are more people trying to get on disability than are working it seems . Some need it some need shot. I have seen great tree crews out working, but not in my area. Most here fit the description TI has given . If you don't fit it then I wouldn't be offended.


----------



## ddhlakebound (Jul 8, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Ddh-i agree with everything you said but this paragraph right here. Why become a bad employee instead of just quiting? Around here, the tree community is rather small-if you are a bad employee for one outfit, every other outfit in the county will know about it and won't hire you. Personally, i'd much rather have my work record show that i quit rather than i got fired. Acting like a bad employee can hurt your reputation. Just my $.02.





> The way I interpreted that paragraph was that he wanted to bring the boss as far down with him as he could before he quit. And probably because he was still getting paid. I could be wrong and he's the only one with the real answer.
> 
> Evan



Beowulf, you're right that the best way to handle that situation honorably is simply to leave. 

The last year I spent there I grew more and more disgusted with my bosses actions, and with how I and my crew were treated. I'd decided that when I left there, by whatever means, that I'd be leaving that line of work for something new. I knew how my boss felt about paying unemployment, and I really really wanted it to stick in his craw. Plus I wanted time with pay to decide and find what I wanted to do next. We both knew we'd entered a battle of the wills, and that it was very unlikely that we'd ever see eye to eye again. He wanted me to quit. I wanted him to fire me. Neither of us wanted to let the other one win, but ultimately he was the only one with something to lose. 

When I got fired it was a huge relief. I'd won the battle of the wills, and as soon as I filed for unemployment, he challenged it. I was prepared, and won the challenge. I took a six month vacation basically, and shortly after that was over, I hired in as a line clearance trimmer apprentice. 

That was the only time in my life I've ever drawn unemployment. I'd spent the previous three years being the best employee the company had ever had to that point. It was wrong of me, but I really wanted my boss to understand why what had once been a very good, effective working relationship had gone south. The only way possible to get that point across was by costing him money. I told him to his face numerous times that I disagreed with what he was doing, and that I wouldn't follow along blindly, despite the fact that he was the boss. 

I guess it was having him as a good boss, and watching him transform into a greedy, powerloving, jackass as he took the reins that motivated me to not just quit and move on.


----------



## ddhlakebound (Jul 8, 2007)

B-Edwards said:


> The truth is on the the net , on this forum, anywhere you cant really see the people or the problems you just never know who actually is or isnt what they say. I have had talks with employees in the past who told me how great there are and they should be making huge money. Have you ever noticed those same people never make what they think they should. Is it because of a greedy boss? Maybe but more times than not its because they have no clue how little they contribute to anyones profit. Some people have a problem on the job and fix it, others (most around here ) couldn't be happier ,its a reason to sit around and wait for it to be fixed by someone else. The guy climbing the ladder is usually doing it because he's busting his hump day in day out. He gets a raise because he's doing more than he's paid for. Can anyone do the math on that equation? Then you have the guy who's trying really hard and his fellow employees cant tell him enough what a brown noser he is. I shouldn't even be responding to this , its just preaching to the choir. The lazy whiners will never be anything but that . I know Ti comes off as rude but I see so much truth in what he says. Take a man thats had to work to EAT ,which by the way you cant starve in the USA, other countries you can starve and thats why they know what honest work is about. Around here there are more people trying to get on disability than are working it seems . Some need it some need shot. I have seen great tree crews out working, but not in my area. Most here fit the description TI has given . If you don't fit it then I wouldn't be offended.




Does not offend me a bit. 

Anyone posting on this thread in agreement with treeminator is obviously in the same shape as him. 

They don't have the skills and knowledge to find good people to hire, and then to train them to be good employees. Its much easier for them to generalize this group or that group as bad employees than it is to recognize that they are bad bosses instead of good leaders.


----------



## Jumper (Jul 8, 2007)

Art Szabo said:


> Yes I was legal and double yes I had an awesome time in the land of the Beaver. I was and am very impressed with the Canadian people. They are without a doubt the friendliest people you would ever want to meet. Toronto is a huge huge city to a country boy like me, but I never felt like I was in a big city. It was more like a sprawling small town that never seemed to end. Never did figure out how to find my way around very good. I lived in Mississauga in an unfinished condo. There were 31 of us altogether. We were hired to remove the machinery from Arrowhead Metals and load it on trucks and rail cars for shipment elsewhere.
> I guess it never dawned me till now that I too was an immigrant. Everybody just treated me so good and I felt so at home that it wasn't like I had left my native country. I went to the bars alot and as soon as they figured out that I was from the States I couldn't spend any money. They would crowd around me each insisting I try his brand of Canadian beer. They told me that I had never had real beer before -- they were right. It was all good - real good. I was up there for eight months and there was not an unpleasant moment in the entire experience.
> Art



Come to McMurray and make some real coin! Please do not judge all of Canada by your experiences in Toronto where from I escaped a few months ago. As far as Canada goes, so much of it is like the US it is no wonder you felt like at home, after all Ohio is just across Lake Erie.


----------



## B-Edwards (Jul 8, 2007)

Well since you pointed a finger I'll make simple assumption, you're still and always have been (The Employee) probably always will be.


----------



## ddhlakebound (Jul 8, 2007)

B-Edwards said:


> Well since you pointed a finger I'll make simple assumption, you're still and always have been (The Employee) probably always will be.




I've been licensed and insured as the co-owner of a residential tree service for a year and a half. 

Got any more assumptions to show off your intelligence? Maybe you should form the "treeinnovator cheerleader/fan club", and do something worthwhile with your time.


----------



## B-Edwards (Jul 8, 2007)

naw I'm done you win.


----------



## DDM (Jul 8, 2007)

I'm in basically the same labor market TI and BEdwards is in. And i totally agree. It is a total nightmare around here finding any 20's white males willing to out in the heat & occasional rain.I have 2 college students that have worked for me 1 for 4yrs the other for 2yrs.These 2 work for me in the summer and on weekends.These 2 are the greatest.I pay them well and they do there job and beyond.Now the end of august i will Dread because i will have to find help.I went thru 8 last yr between Sep-may.Always on the phone,Needing to leave early twice a week.Now the days it would rain and I let them clean the shop they made sure they were always there all day on those occasions.From Sep till end of may my wife has to work with me and Whomever to help us complete the jobs.Its ridiculous when a 37Yr old woman is out the busting her hump dragging brush while I'm in a tree and the "Help" Is leaned up against a tree on the phone.
And the other has left early for various reason.And she Will have to drive 1 of the trucks because most of my insurance Co wont approve to drive our trucks
For Bad driving record.The last one before my other 2 got out of school.Was Arguing with his girlfriend on the phone on the way home from a job and pulled right out in front of another vehicle while driving my P/U.And Totalled the other vehicle and Dang near totalled mine.2 Days before It rained the previous day.I told him it was to wet to pull into the yard we were scheduled to work in.So I told him Wash my pontoon boat get in clean and you can go home.
1 hr later my wife calls and he's already left.Needless to say i had to spend 4 hrs Redoing the job myself.And he was on salary btw 500.00 a week and a tank of Gas.Anything over 40 is 19.00 an hr.Plus we always provide Lunch and 2 snacks a day.That was just the last one the ones before were worse.So tell me what should i expect for 550.00 a week"Salary +Gas" And Free Lunch and snacks a week?


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 9, 2007)

DDM said:


> I'm in basically the same labor market TI and BEdwards is in. And i totally agree. It is a total nightmare around here finding any 20's white males willing to out in the heat & occasional rain.I have 2 college students that have worked for me 1 for 4yrs the other for 2yrs.These 2 work for me in the summer and on weekends.These 2 are the greatest.I pay them well and they do there job and beyond.Now the end of august i will Dread because i will have to find help.I went thru 8 last yr between Sep-may.Always on the phone,Needing to leave early twice a week.Now the days it would rain and I let them clean the shop they made sure they were always there all day on those occasions.From Sep till end of may my wife has to work with me and Whomever to help us complete the jobs.Its ridiculous when a 37Yr old woman is out the busting her hump dragging brush while I'm in a tree and the "Help" Is leaned up against a tree on the phone.
> And the other has left early for various reason.And she Will have to drive 1 of the trucks because most of my insurance Co wont approve to drive our trucks
> For Bad driving record.The last one before my other 2 got out of school.Was Arguing with his girlfriend on the phone on the way home from a job and pulled right out in front of another vehicle while driving my P/U.And Totalled the other vehicle and Dang near totalled mine.2 Days before It rained the previous day.I told him it was to wet to pull into the yard we were scheduled to work in.So I told him Wash my pontoon boat get in clean and you can go home.
> 1 hr later my wife calls and he's already left.Needless to say i had to spend 4 hrs Redoing the job myself.And he was on salary btw 500.00 a week and a tank of Gas.Anything over 40 is 19.00 an hr.Plus we always provide Lunch and 2 snacks a day.That was just the last one the ones before were worse.So tell me what should i expect for 550.00 a week"Salary +Gas" And Free Lunch and snacks a week?



AMEN !!!
but hey, according to the guys in this thread... it's not the workers, it's your bad leadership and management skills right...lol ? 

just like your guys conveniently worked all day to clean up the shop during the rains. mine conveniently never get sick, always show up, and give their best effort each Sunday (which just happens to be pay day). again. must be something the management is doing wrong right Lakebound?


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 9, 2007)

ddhlakebound said:


> Anyone posting on this thread in agreement with treeminator is obviously in the same shape as him. They don't have the skills and knowledge to find good people to hire, and then to train them to be good employees. Its much easier for them to generalize this group or that group as bad employees than it is to recognize that they are bad bosses instead of good leaders.



you see this DDM? according to ddhLakebound, it's all your fault and has nothing to do with the workers. it's all an illusion in our minds. you and i suck as bosses i guess


----------



## Art Szabo (Jul 9, 2007)

*Treeinnovator*

You are dealing with a syndrome that has no cure. Give it up, you will never make your point.
The syndrome works like this; If you have a problem that I don't have then you are doing something wrong. That's it, I said it, and I will never change my mind. No matter how many times you explain it, it will always come out the same. I don't have your problem, so your problem does not exist, you are a liar, you are stupid, you are lazy, etc etc etc.
I understand perfectly what you are saying. It is not that you explained it wrong. You have made it abundantly clear what your dilemma is and believe me, I and others here can relate to it. As for the other others I don't believe they will ever get a foggy picture of what you are describing. They will blame you until hell freezes over.
This syndrome is not circumstance based it is a human phenomena. We are just as baffling to them as they are to us, if that is any consolation.
Let me give a brief example. At work we all share calculators to count money. I can add a column up and then add it again to double check, I get a different number. I complain about junk calculators having pop and coffee spilled on them causing sticking keys. Everybody else tells me that I am doing something wrong because they NEVER have ANY problems with ANY of the calculators. Without fail one of them will snatch the calculator away from me to show me how stupid and inept that I am. Of course you see the problem is entirely on my end. Oh if only I was as smart as they are I wouldn't have this problem. Sure enough they tally the column up and slide the calculator over to me thus proving that it works and that I am certainly stupid. I simply look at them and say now do it again and make it come up with the same number. Their response is to get up and walk away and say I don't add my numbers twice.
You either get it or you don't.
Art


----------



## B-Edwards (Jul 9, 2007)

Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah and another Amen!!! now I realy am done.


----------



## DDM (Jul 9, 2007)

B-Edwards said:


> Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah and another Amen!!! now I realy am done.


Tell us how you really feel! Ordered the talons this morning by the way.


----------



## woodchux (Jul 9, 2007)

:deadhorse:


----------



## ddhlakebound (Jul 9, 2007)

DDM said:


> I'm in basically the same labor market TI and BEdwards is in. And i totally agree. It is a total nightmare around here finding any 20's white males willing to out in the heat & occasional rain.I have 2 college students that have worked for me 1 for 4yrs the other for 2yrs.These 2 work for me in the summer and on weekends.These 2 are the greatest.I pay them well and they do there job and beyond.Now the end of august i will Dread because i will have to find help.I went thru 8 last yr between Sep-may.Always on the phone,Needing to leave early twice a week.Now the days it would rain and I let them clean the shop they made sure they were always there all day on those occasions.From Sep till end of may my wife has to work with me and Whomever to help us complete the jobs.Its ridiculous when a 37Yr old woman is out the busting her hump dragging brush while I'm in a tree and the "Help" Is leaned up against a tree on the phone.
> And the other has left early for various reason.And she Will have to drive 1 of the trucks because most of my insurance Co wont approve to drive our trucks
> For Bad driving record.The last one before my other 2 got out of school.Was Arguing with his girlfriend on the phone on the way home from a job and pulled right out in front of another vehicle while driving my P/U.And Totalled the other vehicle and Dang near totalled mine.2 Days before It rained the previous day.I told him it was to wet to pull into the yard we were scheduled to work in.So I told him Wash my pontoon boat get in clean and you can go home.
> 1 hr later my wife calls and he's already left.Needless to say i had to spend 4 hrs Redoing the job myself.And he was on salary btw 500.00 a week and a tank of Gas.Anything over 40 is 19.00 an hr.Plus we always provide Lunch and 2 snacks a day.That was just the last one the ones before were worse.So tell me what should i expect for 550.00 a week"Salary +Gas" And Free Lunch and snacks a week?




It may be that the labor market is that much of a nightmare. But DDM, you've shown at least in part that it can be overcome, evidenced by your 2 and 4 year guys. 

It may be that a change in the hiring/training process would help you to find a solid full timer or two for year round. How many people do you talk to or interview for each one you hire? How do you locate applicants? 

Making your expectations known up front, then backing up what you say will improve workers output, and your bottom line. The cell phone issue seems to be a common issue in this thread. Want to solve it? Lead by example, first off, and don't use your cell phone for personal calls when the crew is working. If it's a business call, it cant be avoided, and there's nothing for the crew to complain about. If you don't use yours, they can't use theirs. Simply tell them up front that it isn't allowed. Then the first time you catch them using it, keep track of how long. When you get back to the yard that night, calmly explain to them that they knew they weren't allowed to use the phone, and they cost you x minutes on the job site. And that they need to make up that time now. Make up time needs a dirty job too. Stay with them, and supervise the whole time. Once is usually enough. 

Breaks should be the same way. If you're working, they're working. You're the leader, you call the break. If they physically can't hang, you choose wether to shape em up or ship em out. If they're just lazy, and won't respect your rules, you don't need them anyway. Make your expectations known up front. Tell them, "if I'm working you better be working." When you catch them trying to test the boundaries, be calm, firm, and respectful, but let them know they gotta meet expectations if they want to work for you. 

When it comes to starting pay DDM, a few changes could save you money, and have the positive effect of making new hires feel like they are developing and deserving of more. Don't start them on salary, but give them the same hourly rate 13.75 = 550. (Then when they run off without cleaning the boat right, it costs them money. You offered the hours, and they went home. No pay for that.) Give them a goal to hit, like 95-98% on time attendance for a month or two to get moved to salary. They're more motivated to show up for work, because they have a goal to work for plus a paycheck. Tell them as soon as they've learned how to do all the daily and weekly maintenance on the equipment (correctly) you'll throw in a tank of gas every week. (And explain to them that it's equal to a $3000 raise, and you'll give them a $3k raise because proper maintenance will save you more than that.) Once these goals are attained, they've learned good habits, and are on the way to being the employee you need. 

You're paying good money, and you deserve good help. It takes a lot of time and work to find and mold great workers, but it's worth it. If your crew is always learning to be better, and being told "Hey, thanks for all your hard work today." (when they deserve it), you can develop effective loyal help. It is not easy though. Honest communication is a big part, both with praise, and when you need to correct improper attitude or technique. And sometimes you just have to cut your losses, and say "You're fired". 

Footnote: I know that finding people physically and mentally capable of the demands of the job, and being in the elements makes finding crew for treework more difficult than most other jobs. It's still necessary to maintain a positive attitude in order to be sucessful.


----------



## DDM (Jul 9, 2007)

ddhlakebound said:


> It may be that the labor market is that much of a nightmare. But DDM, you've shown at least in part that it can be overcome, evidenced by your 2 and 4 year guys.
> 
> It may be that a change in the hiring/training process would help you to find a solid full timer or two for year round. How many people do you talk to or interview for each one you hire? How do you locate applicants?



That was what i was trying to say.For the work we do unless there trying to better themselves I.E. going to college Seems like most of the younger people around here do not want to work outside dragging brush. I have yet to have one understand the concept that when feeding large wood thru the chipper to stop it as the engine bogs to let it rev back up until its been explained 15 times. That was an example.None of them want to drag brush they all want to start off running the bobcat.I'm probably not explaining myself very well here.They would all Rather be working in an air conditioned Plant I guess am what im trying to say.
And o yeah the salary thing will be earned from now on.No more freebies.
I usually get applicants From friends larger business's kinda like a labor pool Deal. But there views and mine a virtually the same with the same experiences. 1 of them the owns a rather large grading business will only hire 
lets say folks from south of the border now.His labor problems are virtually non existent anymore.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 10, 2007)

DDM said:


> That was what i was trying to say.For the work we do unless there trying to better themselves I.E. going to college Seems like most of the younger people around here do not want to work outside dragging brush. I have yet to have one understand the concept that when feeding large wood thru the chipper to stop it as the engine bogs to let it rev back up until its been explained 15 times. That was an example.None of them want to drag brush they all want to start off running the bobcat.I'm probably not explaining myself very well here.They would all Rather be working in an air conditioned Plant I guess am what im trying to say.
> And o yeah the salary thing will be earned from now on.No more freebies.
> I usually get applicants From friends larger business's kinda like a labor pool Deal. But there views and mine a virtually the same with the same experiences. 1 of them the owns a rather large grading business will only hire
> lets say folks from south of the border now.His labor problems are virtually non existent anymore.



the best solution is to simply stop hiring white males and start hiring immigrants who know what the word "work" really means and respects your investment as the business owner.


----------



## moss (Jul 10, 2007)

Treeinnovator said:


> the best solution is to simply stop hiring white males and start hiring immigrants who know what the word "work" really means and respects your investment as the business owner.



Shouldn't give in to the troll but this statement "stop hiring white workers" is so absurd. You hire whatever person is right for the job, end of story. The line between honoring and abusing immigrant workers has been blurred in this thread and the trend is towards abuse more than honoring. Trashing a whole new generation of young men and women is tired. We've heard it all before, every generation thinks the ones following aren't as good as they were. A little self reflection on human relations beyond thinking about "your investment as the business owner" is in order.
-moss


----------



## howel07264 (Jul 10, 2007)

*New source for labor*

After getting a large contract to clear several acres of land i reallized that i needed some help to get the job done and FAST! just so happened there was a new assisted living home set up in our area for able bodied young people with some moderate handicap. I went by one day and asked if any of the guys wanted to go on a nature field trip. Before i could pick and choose who i wanted all 20 guys were jumping in the dump truck.all made it in but 2 in wheelchairs and i managed to sqeeze them into the chip truck box.Boy these guys were starved for a little something to do. Man we had that property cut and cleaned up in short order.After chipping a couple of trees i remembered that i forgot about the 2 in wheelchairs in the chip box. Man we worked for at least 30 minutes digging them out. I thought i heard some screaming but you know how loud those chippers can be. Finally got em out with no major injury,just a few scrapes.One of the guys had one of those new motorized hoveround wheelchairs. Man you talk about a versatile piece of equipment. that thing will snake logs a brush all day on a full charge. Make a long story short everybody had a great day,the job got completed and total cost for labor....ZERO!


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 10, 2007)

howel07264 said:


> After getting a large contract to clear several...... completed and total cost for labor....ZERO!


----------



## 04superduty (Jul 10, 2007)

howel07264 said:


> After getting a large contract to clear several acres of land i reallized that i needed some help to get the job done and FAST! just so happened there was a new assisted living home set up in our area for able bodied young people with some moderate handicap. I went by one day and asked if any of the guys wanted to go on a nature field trip. Before i could pick and choose who i wanted all 20 guys were jumping in the dump truck.all made it in but 2 in wheelchairs and i managed to sqeeze them into the chip truck box.Boy these guys were starved for a little something to do. Man we had that property cut and cleaned up in short order.After chipping a couple of trees i remembered that i forgot about the 2 in wheelchairs in the chip box. Man we worked for at least 30 minutes digging them out. I thought i heard some screaming but you know how loud those chippers can be. Finally got em out with no major injury,just a few scrapes.One of the guys had one of those new motorized hoveround wheelchairs. Man you talk about a versatile piece of equipment. that thing will snake logs a brush all day on a full charge. Make a long story short everybody had a great day,the job got completed and total cost for labor....ZERO!



you must be related to treeinovator some how. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## DDM (Jul 10, 2007)

LMAO Too Funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## nytreeman (Jul 11, 2007)

howel07264 said:


> After getting a large contract to clear several acres of land i reallized that i needed some help to get the job done and FAST! just so happened there was a new assisted living home set up in our area for able bodied young people with some moderate handicap. I went by one day and asked if any of the guys wanted to go on a nature field trip. Before i could pick and choose who i wanted all 20 guys were jumping in the dump truck.all made it in but 2 in wheelchairs and i managed to sqeeze them into the chip truck box.Boy these guys were starved for a little something to do. Man we had that property cut and cleaned up in short order.After chipping a couple of trees i remembered that i forgot about the 2 in wheelchairs in the chip box. Man we worked for at least 30 minutes digging them out. I thought i heard some screaming but you know how loud those chippers can be. Finally got em out with no major injury,just a few scrapes.One of the guys had one of those new motorized hoveround wheelchairs. Man you talk about a versatile piece of equipment. that thing will snake logs a brush all day on a full charge. Make a long story short everybody had a great day,the job got completed and total cost for labor....ZERO!


*
Now thats funny!!:*laugh:   ........... 

unless of course it's true then never mind its baaaad sooo very badddd!!! LMAO


----------



## oldirty (Jul 11, 2007)

hey DDM. is that 550 for a climber or a solid ground guy?






oldirty


----------



## lumberinspector (Jul 11, 2007)

Well here is my $.02...

I'm 24,white and hard working....

One thing I don't remember seeing brought up in any of the post is..."How the individual is raised?" Doesn't that play a huge role in how a young person grows up and turns out? Don't you think lack of parenting plays a role in the white guys you are talking about? 

I would have to say that I do indeed take offense to what Treeinnovator just as the two other young guys stated and mabye its because he comes off so ignorant and places all white young males into one group and the way in which he states his thoughts etc. 

I could sit here and go off and place him in the same group with all the other piss poor bosses out there too but I won't because I know I'm a better person than that and I don't need to knock other people down just to give myself a "warm fuzzy" for the day. 

I know that I was raised to work hard and bust my ass for everything I have. That is what my father instilled in me. 

I bet when Treeinnovator was growing up the elders of that time could say the same damn thing he is saying now. 

Keep hiring more immigrants....????, erect their countrys flag in your yard...go all out and than see how the rest of the hard working american folk 
react... 

*It doesn't matter what color you are or what country you come from...there is the same type of people as "the young white 20 somethings" being referred to. *
Maybe set higher standards when hiring...

A person could go on and on but I'm content with what I said and will lose no sleep. People such as Treeinnovator just give me the will power to work harder and be a better employee and disprove his claims. Every dog has their day....everybody gets what they got coming to them. 

"The glory is not in never having been knocked down. The glory is in having stood upright again. They never could keep me down."


----------



## sperho (Jul 11, 2007)

I did not read this whole thread, but I'll chime in anyway.

If a person is a US citizen or a legal immigrant, by all means hire the best person for the job. Competition is what makes this country great. Don't bash people (immigrant or not) stereotypically, however, or you lose credibility in my eyes, at least. I am not unique.

If I know of a subcontractor that employees illegal immigrants, I won't hire them. I'm building a significant structure right now and illegal labor seems to be the flavor of the month in the building trades. I won't have it and will run off any crew that I know of or suspect illegals working. Friggin' consumers demanding the lowest cost for everything. For godsakes, think about where your money goes when you spend it.


----------



## oldirty (Jul 12, 2007)

ddm answer the question man.

is the 550 for a climber or for a ground guy?







oldirty


----------



## BostonBull (Jul 12, 2007)

oldirty said:


> ddm answer the question man.
> 
> is the 550 for a climber or for a ground guy?
> 
> ...



Whats it matter? RELAX!

A climber for 550?.....not too much! A ground guy making 550/gross on the books should be able to drag brush and rake a lawn, and MAYBE run a saw on a limited basis.

Our GREAT ground guys are making that take home in a regular week. Unless your paying cash then a ground guy should be able to run a saw well, and be OK on ropes as well as have all other ground tasks mastered.


----------



## oldirty (Jul 12, 2007)

hey BostonBS shut your mouth. 

i ask because i dont know anyone who'll climb for that. 







oldirty


----------



## jose nj (Jul 12, 2007)

*any body fron san diego??*

is any one forn san diego california ??


----------



## BostonBull (Jul 12, 2007)

oldirty said:


> hey BostonBS shut your mouth.
> 
> oldirty



Take a deep breath and watch your mouth. NOONE knows anyone that will climb for that! And if they are willing to climb for that all of us already know the results that will insue.


----------



## jose nj (Jul 12, 2007)

*i care*



Treeman587 said:


> What about a FOREIGNER working on the 4th impresses you? What do they care about OUR independance day?



i care about that i donth work on the 4th im' a FOREIGNER so what


----------



## woodchux (Jul 12, 2007)

There is alot of guys in south carolina that will climb for $100 - $125 day...
But you usually get what you pay for.


----------



## DDM (Jul 12, 2007)

oldirty said:


> hey DDM. is that 550 for a climber or a solid ground guy?
> oldirty



Sorry missed your post. Thats for a groundie. I'm doing all my own climbing now 
but I've had Climbers approach me and tell me they would climb for 13.00 an hr.
Last one i had Climbed about 2 days a week and ran the bucket for 3 i was paying him 18.00 .


----------



## clearance (Jul 17, 2008)

Treeinnovator said:


> hired my first Guatamalans yesterday. WOW am i impressed !!!
> these guys are like renting a bunch of mini-loaders. they work like robot ants. hardly any breaks, no whining, no complaining, willing to work for 12 hours straight, and will lift ANYTHING on their shoulders.
> 
> I will NEVER EVER hire another white male again. I'm white and i know how we all think and work. we don't hold a candle to their guatamalan work ethic. you truly get double the work out of them for the same pay rate.



.


----------



## Brush Hog (Jul 17, 2008)

Isn't this the same knucklehead who said " I fired all my helpers and bought a 4x4 lift with a 8 ft wide basket to do tree work that costs big $$ to move". Now that's a smart idea. Then brags about Guats. that he "treats" them gas station hot dogs and water. Then says they are bringing in another boat full of them to hire. This will bite him in the ass in time. All I have to say is   Don't let the door hit you in the ass MORON!!!!!!!


----------



## hornett224 (Jul 17, 2008)

*i'm white and i'll work all day and into the dark.*



Treeinnovator said:


> the best solution is to simply stop hiring white males and start hiring immigrants who know what the word "work" really means and respects your investment as the business owner.



i just won't do it for nothing or for an a$$hole.


----------



## clearance (Jul 17, 2008)

Brush Hog said:


> Isn't this the same knucklehead who said " I fired all my helpers and bought a 4x4 lift with a 8 ft wide basket to do tree work that costs big $$ to move". Now that's a smart idea. Then brags about Guats. that he "treats" them gas station hot dogs and water. Then says they are bringing in another boat full of them to hire. This will bite him in the ass in time. All I have to say is   Don't let the door hit you in the ass MORON!!!!!!!



Yes it is, that is why I found this and revived it.


----------



## mckeetree (Jul 17, 2008)

Brush Hog said:


> Isn't this the same knucklehead who said " I fired all my helpers and bought a 4x4 lift with a 8 ft wide basket to do tree work that costs big $$ to move". Now that's a smart idea. Then brags about Guats. that he "treats" them gas station hot dogs and water. Then says they are bringing in another boat full of them to hire. This will bite him in the ass in time. All I have to say is   Don't let the door hit you in the ass MORON!!!!!!!



I think he makes all that sh!t up. Nobody in real life is that big of a moron.


----------



## TimberMcPherson (Jul 17, 2008)

I think he has good ideas, I have refined his guatamalan system and made it better.

I contacted a aid organisation in africa and offered to sponsor a bunch of kids to come live in my loving family. I was lucky to be able to pick myself up a bunch of kids that after a long violent civil war, are well versed in the use of a machette although they do have a drug dependancy which I as a keen business minded kind of guy, I can only see as a great advantage as they will always look to me for there vital needs.

So I have a dozen drug dependant machette weilding kids with alot of love and energy to give, so they all became my tree crew/tree cutting family.
These kids and there machettes have replaced nearly every bit of gear I own and gear I have wanted to own. I just have to point to something, shake a little bag of there favourite drug fix and those kids will hack to there hearts content until I tell them to stop or they just plum collapse from fatigue.Bless em.

They are wonderful, no need for saws, they chop everything so fine that everything is just mulch anyhow so my chipper has now retired, they are amazing and climbing on each others shoulders so with 12 of them being a bit over 4 foot high they are able to reach 48 feet!!! They are a little slow on stumps but boy can they climb like a jaguar is chasing them around the canopy! 

I thought I had a pretty good system going until I noticed that on of the kids (or should I say young able arborists)that had temporarily fainted had woken and started to eat grass for some sustainance. The brilliant thought I had filled me with such joy I let him eat a good size patch down before I sent him back to clear the 11kv lines (rubber dish gloves and machette on long stick for safety). So I dont only offer tree work, we do lawn care!
Now these kids arent that quick but I found that if we left them on the job overnight one could get a lawn done providing he was hungry enough. They are so good I have the illegals here calling them hacks as obviously having a pick up, trailer and chainsaw is just overcapitalising when my guys are around!

Now I have seen the ads and done the maths, and the fact you can look after one of these kids with a dollar a day just cant be turned down by your competitively focused company owner. But things only got better. One of the kids while finishing off munching down a back lawn when he was suprised by a local kid taking a short cut between properties. My wired little lawn lover hacked him to tiny peices and thoughtfully spread him around the garden mixing him in with the freshly applied mulch. Which meant I had to charge the client more for blood and bone application but I had an all new way to better streamline and expand my operation. Neighbourhood Armed security.

Now late at night my clients sleep easy as these little slasher carrying professionals tend to the lawns and gardens while making sure the streets are safe and empty. They also clean up food scraps in the garbage and they have proven to me that in life as in business theres more than one way to skin a cat. 

(which will help with them dealing with winter, once they learn what snow is Im sure they will be gems at moving it)


----------



## ddhlakebound (Jul 17, 2008)

TimberMcPherson said:


> I think he has good ideas, I have refined his guatamalan system and made it better.
> 
> I contacted a aid organisation in africa and offered to sponsor a bunch of kids to come live in my loving family. I was lucky to be able to pick myself up a bunch of kids that after a long violent civil war, are well versed in the use of a machette although they do have a drug dependancy which I as a keen business minded kind of guy, I can only see as a great advantage as they will always look to me for there vital needs.
> 
> ...



LMAO, that was great. 

On the downside, you probably just gave Treeminator about six new ideas to maximize profitability and microsize expenses.


----------



## (WLL) (Jul 18, 2008)

Treeinnovator said:


> hired my first Guatamalans yesterday. WOW am i impressed !!!
> these guys are like renting a bunch of mini-loaders. they work like robot ants. hardly any breaks, no whining, no complaining, willing to work for 12 hours straight, and will lift ANYTHING on their shoulders.
> 
> I will NEVER EVER hire another white male again. I'm white and i know how we all think and work. we don't hold a candle to their guatamalan work ethic. you truly get double the work out of them for the same pay rate.


lmfWao!!! thats prolly the only people that will work fer you!!!  :notrolls2:


----------



## treemandan (Jul 18, 2008)

jrparbor04 said:


> this is the type of thing that makes us Certified Arborist look bad in our industry.



Buddy, this is the least of your worries let ME TELL YOU. Have a nice day


----------



## tree MDS (Jul 18, 2008)

GottaCut said:


> Exactly, I worked on the 4th too.....so what! I cant stand people who spend more time trying to get out of work than they do working, many whom I've known are white. But it doesnt matter your ethnicity, I've found hard workers and lazy-asses in every color and size. Foreign workers bust their ass so much because they come from such under-priviledged places and havent had all the things we take for granted. That and if you get them through a program and they get fired they go bye-bye.



The whites have stopped inforcing the work ethic right at home, thats the problem-its got to be. If I ever had to tell my mom that I lost my job cuz I'm a loser (I'd probably use some other term, but she would know), I'd be so guilted. Your a man you are supposed to work! parents are sposed to teach that stuff! And enforce it!! I got no kids but if I did I would make em work, believe me, and then maybe they would'nt look (and be) like losers when they go for an interview like these beuty's I get lately!! I would say "no! you're not gonna be the next fiddy cent!! ya aint gonna have yer own recording studio! put down the joystick, pull up yer pants, and drag the [email protected]#@#$! brush cuz thats where you are at kid, suck it up and be a man! No welfare! Suspenders and workie!!! Ahh that felt good, lol.


----------



## tree MDS (Jul 18, 2008)

Treeinnovator said:


> well said.
> and don't forget the whole "my cellphone is ringing again, time for another 15 minute break"
> 
> if it's true, those 2 guys are truly different and should take it as a compliment. however, the trend i see is that most of my white workers "think" they are hard workers. they really honestly do and are totally convinced in their heads that they are working their butts off. it's not until they work alongside an immigrant do you see the huge difference...and it's not even comparable in any way.



Ok, so Ill give you that part about them thinking they are hard workers cuz that I've seen. I've watched a 22 year old in winter chip four or five branches and then sit on a stump like they just ran a trithalon!! WTF!! kid was all red and guzzling water, I'm up in the tree trying to wrap my mind around what the hell could possibly have been so hard about that! so tiring it truely is.


----------



## paul soccodato (Jul 18, 2008)

:notrolls2:


----------



## fireman (Jul 18, 2008)

*American Pride*

Unemployment is at the highest its ever been,gas prices is at the highest its ever been,people are losing there houses never been higher in history,and we have people who don't even care about Independence day what is this nation coming to.We as a people have to take control of the situation.How do you think people from the Great Depression got through it.They banned together helped one another and worked hard and had pride of there country and what they did,not going out and blaming everyone else for there problems.Help one another stay true to your country and we will get through the hard times. STAY SAFE and be true to YOURSELF


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 18, 2008)

fireman said:


> Unemployment is at the highest its ever been,gas prices is at the highest its ever been,people are losing there houses never been higher in history,and we have people who don't even care about Independence day what is this nation coming to.We as a people have to take control of the situation.How do you think people from the Great Depression got through it.They banned together helped one another and worked hard and had pride of there country and what they did,not going out and blaming everyone else for there problems.Help one another stay true to your country and we will get through the hard times. STAY SAFE and be true to YOURSELF



i'll sum it up for you ...
it took 200 years to become the best country in the world and only 8 years to flush it all down the toilet under a leader named Bush. i guess that's what we should expect from an ex-alcoholic cocaine multi-business failure cowboy.


----------



## hornett224 (Jul 18, 2008)

*really?*



Treeinnovator said:


> i'll sum it up for you ...
> it took 200 years to become the best country in the world and only 8 years to flush it all down the toilet under a leader named Bush. i guess that's what we should expect from an ex-alcoholic cocaine multi-business failure cowboy.



i haven't seen your girlfriend Nancy P. doing much.nothing is more like it.funny,gas prices seemed to skyrocket after the Dumbocrats got power of congress.


----------



## fireman (Jul 18, 2008)

MR innovator its to bad the dems wont allow us to drill for oil we will be self sufficient for the next 100 yrs if dems would work with republicans.The biggest fraud of them all is Al Gore he is getting sued if I'm not mistaken for being a fake and a fraud.YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I CLINTON WAS THE START OF THE PROBLEM. He ignored the problems in the Middle east and let them escalate and did nothing, he was to worried about himself and his girl friend.


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 18, 2008)

fireman said:


> MR innovator its to bad the dems wont allow us to drill for oil we will be self sufficient for the next 100 yrs if dems would work with republicans.The biggest fraud of them all is Al Gore he is getting sued if I'm not mistaken for being a fake and a fraud.YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I CLINTON WAS THE START OF THE PROBLEM. He ignored the problems in the Middle east and let them escalate and did nothing, he was to worried about himself and his girl friend.



wow this might be the dumbest thing i've heard all year. please stop believing everything Bush and FOX news says.


----------



## kennertree (Jul 18, 2008)

Treeinnovator said:


> wow this might be the dumbest thing i've heard all year. please stop believing everything Bush and FOX news says.



Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you'd had enough oxygen at birth?


----------



## mckeetree (Jul 18, 2008)

Treeinnovator said:


> wow this might be the dumbest thing i've heard all year. please stop believing everything Bush and FOX news says.



Alright Goblin. I think I am on to you.


----------



## hornett224 (Jul 19, 2008)

*or maybe...................*



Treeinnovator said:


> wow this might be the dumbest thing i've heard all year. please stop believing everything Bush and FOX news says.



you should stop believing everything Ted Kennedy and all the other news channels are telling you.you probably listen to Sen. Byrd for your politics.hell,he's usually asleep in session.

your good 'ol buddy Ted Kennedy won't allow windmills on Cape Cod because it will ruin his alcohol distorted view of the ocean from his distillery window. 

or maybe it's your hollywood buddies who don't want to see an oil rig from their cocaine dealers balcony in Malibu.


----------



## clearance (Jul 19, 2008)

kennertree said:


> Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you'd had enough oxygen at birth?



How about, did you ever wonder in amazement that you beat a million other sperm to be the one?


----------



## MARCELL8733 (Jul 19, 2008)

*Workers*

EACH TO ITS OWN


----------



## pbtree (Jul 19, 2008)

:notrolls2: :notrolls2: :notrolls2: :notrolls2:


----------



## Bigus Termitius (Jul 19, 2008)

This is the dumbest thread I've ever read through, of course there were the usual diamonds in the rough.

I've blazed through 3 white twentysomethings this year to finally find 2 good ones. They are out there if you care to look hard enough and in the right places, but that takes effort.

If you throw up your hands and sell out to the foreigners so readily, you are no better than the worthless white boys you whine about. Perhaps, in fact....worse, for a larger growth.

Chew on that for awhile, Trollminator! Of course, I doubt you have the capacity to properly digest it. 

Ah well, just don't spend any time looking in the mirror and you'll be fine....for awhile, but chances are you'll never see it coming anyway.


----------



## tree MDS (Jul 19, 2008)

Yep, I'm still holding out for a white boy or two who's momma and poppa didnt make him all pansified. Like termite said they gotta be out there, just gotta keep looking. Problem is most of us are on our own if we are worth our salt, or got good jobs.


----------



## treemandan (Jul 19, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Yep, I'm still holding out for a white boy or two who's momma and poppa didnt make him all pansified. Like termite said they gotta be out there, just gotta keep looking. Problem is most of us are on our own if we are worth our salt, or got good jobs.



Tell me what salt goes for by the pound? Or better, what does it come for?


----------



## smokechase II (Jul 19, 2008)

*White Boy help*

You guys should go over to the Saudi web sites.

They know all about how to hire just the right white boy help.


----------



## tree MDS (Jul 19, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Tell me what salt goes for by the pound? Or better, what does it come for?



Salt is as salt does dan! You should know that!


----------



## Bermie (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh Clearance, WHY did you bump this thread you sadist??


----------



## clearance (Jul 20, 2008)

Bermie said:


> Oh Clearance, WHY did you bump this thread you sadist??



I didn't want anyone to take this cull for anything more than he is-a waste of time.


----------



## Bermie (Jul 21, 2008)

Oh, 'cause he's been laying low, and the newbies won't understand where we've been already with the 'innovator'...


----------



## Treeinnovator (Jul 21, 2008)

clearance what are you talking about? i have 2 legitimate threads going. maybe i should bump the thread where you admit to charging the customers according to race.


----------



## (WLL) (Jul 21, 2008)

Treeinnovator said:


> maybe i should bump the thread where you admit to charging the customers according to race.


THIS POST IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT PROOF!!:jawdrop:


----------



## Pete M (Jul 22, 2008)

Charging customers by race Bloke who works with us sometimes did a job. HO wanted to pay less for him as he has two fingers missing after chopping them off years ago with a planer! Discount for disability even though it doesn't affect his work.


----------



## tree MDS (Jul 22, 2008)

Treeinnovator said:


> clearance what are you talking about? i have 2 legitimate threads going. maybe i should bump the thread where you admit to charging the customers according to race.


Ithink what clearance is trying to say is that you are a troll and nobody likes you-or wants to waste thier time reading your crap cuz its all trollish.  
Dig it??


----------



## OTG BOSTON (Jul 22, 2008)

Bermie said:


> Oh Clearance, WHY did you bump this thread you sadist??




I gotta admit I enjoyed the back and forth between BostonBull and oldirty...... obviously this was before they met and fell in love...:love1:


----------



## strongback (Jul 22, 2008)

*Just 'cause.*

Just curious about whether or not all of the posters desperately seeking reliable, hardworking, twenty-something "white" laborers wouldn't rather rephrase that as reliable, hardworking, twenty-something "Americans"? Or are you really using "white" as part of your search criteria? 
I'm neither white nor a "foreigner" and I've been working grown men into the dirt at grown men's jobs since I was fourteen. I've employed whites, blacks and mexicans to work for me and couldn't find a nickels worth of difference between the output of one race over the others. As individuals however, I've seen some who could (almost) work to my standards and others who I couldn't stand long enough to finish a job. As has been said here by others it's all about the work ethic of the individual. Don't ask them about their last job. Ask them about what they did with their time when they were 12-17. They say they hung out with friends, cruised the mall, skateboarded or played video games; pass. I'm looking for the guy who helped gather firewood, worked on the family vehicles, tended the crops or livestock, or went to work with his dad during summer "vacation".


----------



## (WLL) (Jul 22, 2008)

Treeinnovator said:


> clearance what are you talking about? i have 2 legitimate threads going. maybe i should bump the thread where you admit to charging the customers according to race.


 the HO's are paying by race.


----------



## oldirty (Jul 22, 2008)

OTG BOSTON said:


> I gotta admit I enjoyed the back and forth between BostonBull and oldirty...... obviously this was before they met and fell in love...:love1:





lol.


where you been man? 



and someone find me this thread that TI is talking about. i gotta read this.


----------



## fireman (Jul 22, 2008)

its not worth oldirty a waste of time just a bunch of garbage crap in the shiitteer just a bunch of hot air.


----------



## treemandan (Jul 22, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Salt is as salt does dan! You should know that!



What I know is that no smart man is gonna sell his salt for less salt for very long.


----------



## treemandan (Jul 22, 2008)

strongback said:


> Just curious about whether or not all of the posters desperately seeking reliable, hardworking, twenty-something "white" laborers wouldn't rather rephrase that as reliable, hardworking, twenty-something "Americans"? Or are you really using "white" as part of your search criteria?
> I'm neither white nor a "foreigner" and I've been working grown men into the dirt at grown men's jobs since I was fourteen. I've employed whites, blacks and mexicans to work for me and couldn't find a nickels worth of difference between the output of one race over the others. As individuals however, I've seen some who could (almost) work to my standards and others who I couldn't stand long enough to finish a job. As has been said here by others it's all about the work ethic of the individual. Don't ask them about their last job. Ask them about what they did with their time when they were 12-17. They say they hung out with friends, cruised the mall, skateboarded or played video games; pass. I'm looking for the guy who helped gather firewood, worked on the family vehicles, tended the crops or livestock, or went to work with his dad during summer "vacation".



Yes, race is not always best brought up. I use the term white boy to include white American boys and that only.


----------



## OTG BOSTON (Jul 23, 2008)

oldirty said:


> lol.
> 
> 
> where you been man?
> ...




Just hangin' 'round the 'house


----------



## sharkfin12us (Jul 23, 2008)

*spanish workers*



Treeinnovator said:


> they are doing groundwork and have done this work for years.
> 
> cutting wood takes twice the time...to cut twice and drag twice the same log. these guys just take it all with no problems.
> 
> ...



Just like any race some lazy some not as long as you appreciate them for example whoever works for me i buy lunch and 30 minutes to eat.If i see a guy knows what to do i dont have to babysit pay him what he is worth.Safety for me is number one if i feel i have to get mad or yell that person does not work out.


----------



## (WLL) (Jul 23, 2008)

citizinship is a much bigger issue than race. im not a racist ill race anyone. God bless America and all its colorful people i want all the illegals to get the heck out of our country untill they can come here legally


----------

