# moonlighting (employee with a side job)



## JUDGE1162

I am looking for some input from you guys from a more employee relations then a legal issue.

He is my problem, I have an employee (a very good employee) who I recently found out was doing some side work, some very small jobs (afterwork and weekends), work that I really would not be interested in doing, so it is not that he is stealing work from me but we do have an employee hand book, which does state that moonlighting requires previous approval and that the work can not conflict with their work, at the company.

Here are my issues
1. even though it is small jobs, they are still jobs that our company does (a little small, but not a job that I would turn away especially if we get slow) and they are small now but what is to stop him from moving on to bigger job, job I would want.
2. What happens if he gets hurt, now I am out a worker or even worse, he waits until the next work day and acts like he hurt himself at work, n ow I am paying workers comp.
3. I found out he has used compay equipment to do some of the work, this is one of the biggest issues, I don't own this equipment, pay for its up keep to have him make a few bucks on the side, what happens if he breaks it on one of these side jobs, how do I prove he did it then and not on my job site.
4. Some of our equipmet has our company name on it, I feel that opens me up to some legal issues, I don't want issues for the company because of his side jobs see our logo/name and think they have hired my company and not just the guy they have working, I don't want there to be an issue (he screws up) he gets sued and because he had my equipment or happened to have a sweatshirt with my logo on they sue me too.
5. The final issue has more to do with employee/boss relationship. I know he is breaking company policy, others employees know he is breaking company policy, as a boss I feel like I have to address it.

Now the question is how?
He is a good employee, a very good employee I have never had issues with him in the past, he does a great job, I wish I had more employees like him. We have a good working relationship, even friendly outside of work. This is a big part of my issue, I don't want to lose him to another company, I don't want to destroy our working relationship, and if he would have asked I would have said yes with conditions like don't use company equipment, the jobs need to be run past me first to see if I want them, and there can be no conection to the company.

What should I do, how big of a deal is this, according to my company hand book he can be fired with cause for this, so if I should fire him I have legal grounds to do so. We also have policys regarding the use of company equipment which he by using it for side work he has also violated, which according to the company hand book can carry disapline actions from a day without pay to a month without pay. I tend not to do anything less than a week because the guys see a day as a free vacation day and one day pay usally is not enough to really have them notice the diffrence in their pay check, when you don't get a weeks pay your wallet feels it.


Any advise? :bang:


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## Shaun Bowler

Using your equipment was wrong.
I don't see how what any employee does on the weekend can be controled. I don't believe that is a good policy.


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## jefeVTtreeman

i agree using equipment that is not yours is theft, but docking pay sounds better than letting him go, although being the boss means making the hard decisions, will others look down on you for being to harsh or not being harsh enough. First offense? wow tough question, if it was my friend and employee i would let him know that what he did will not be tolerated and he is being warned and docked pay, then take him out for beers. Just and employee i would let him go and make it known to others that theft is theft and violators shall be let go. or

?:rockn:


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## JUDGE1162

Shaun Bowler said:


> Using your equipment was wrong.
> I don't see how what any employee does on the weekend can be controled. I don't believe that is a good policy.




Terms of employment, like it or not many companies have policys that control employees when not at work. Moonlighting policies are very common, I have only used it one time before and that was because the guy kept falling asleep at work because we was working the night shift at the local mini-mart, it was not safe and it was not fair to me, he quit his "night job" and I gave him a night job cleaing the office so it was a win win for him, because he is done by 10 or 11pm and he get a few extra buck and it save me hiring a cleaning crew.

Other policies that effect what employee do on their time are drinking and drug policy, I had to let a guy go because he failed a drug test, as far as I know he never used drugs during work hours or was under the infuance of drugs during work hours but I have a strict no drug policy.

When I was younger I played semi-pro football on the weekend, my boss told me I had to make a choice, since my practice schedual and my injuries were effecting my work, I had to quit play ball or risk losing my job, while I did not think it was fair then, now that I am the boss I see his point, I am paying my employees to work if they are doing something which effect the level or skill of their work it cost me money.


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## NYCHA FORESTER

Issues

1) Is he really taking jobs (from you)? Tough question... who is to say you would have gotten the job anyway. Maybe these small after work or Sat. jobs are word of mouth jobs he gets from other friends or family?

If he is soliciting work from your list of clients then certainly the matter should be taken up with him.

2) What if he gets hurt? Then you are definitely out a worker (very good worker). If he got hurt driving home from work and go laid up for a week or two would you assist him financially? Most owner/operators would not or just could not. 

3+4) Using company equipment is a definite NO NO! I would think at that point you become liable for anything he does. If he is wearing one of your sweatshirts ehhhh..... think of it as free advertising.

5) Your relationship may be the primary reason he is getting these side jobs and not telling you. Obviously he values it as much as you do; but the man still needs support himself (and family?). He may need the cash for a down payment on a house? or needs a new reliable vehicle...... the list is endless!
People work because they need the money...... but then you know that.

*If you value him as both an excellent employee and friend then it looks like you are going have to "sweet'in the Pot" for him. Perhaps make him a salaried employee....with the understanding that side jobs (for anyone but family and immediate friends) must cease.*

Firing a man because he needs the extra money I think will reverberate through out the rest of the company (negatively) especially if he is well liked by his peers! 

He may just strike out on his own and take one or two of your employees with him and solicit you clients immediately.


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## clearance

You sound like a decent supervisor, really. Have a talk with this guy, do what most supervisors do, tell him you want a cash kickback, and that if he gets hurt working you will run it through the books. If everyone who used company stuff got fired.... good God. Anyways, whatever you decide, you have to have a talk with this guy, tell him right up front he isn't getting fired or suspended, you have to talk because you are concerned. Good luck, I'm sure it will be OK.


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## curdy

OK, here are my thoughts. My background is in Human Resources, Recruitment, Headhunting, and Business Development. I have experience both as an employee and as a business owner. Take it for what its worth, but I may be able to shine some light on the subject from a different perspective.

As most others have said, using the company’s equipment for things other than company work…with out permission is wrong…period. 

You said he’s not doing work that directly competes with your company…that’s good, if it was, that would be a different story.

He could get hurt doing anything…if he tries to blame you…well, that’s not a good character trait. Sounds like you were just throwing that one out there as possible issue though and not necessarily related to him directly. Hey, anyone could do that at any time, if he’s a good guy, you have to trust that he won’t do that…Let him know you trust him to, you’ll decrease the chances of that happening many many times.

On the subject of moonlighting and side work. Employees are being paid to perform a job. When it’s off hours and you’re not paying them, you have NO right to tell them what to, or not to do. BUT, you DO have the right to keep them hired or fire them. Doing drugs is illegal, if on company time or not…I don’t want criminals working for me, so they’re asked to leave. If the employee is doing something off hours (work or play) that DIRECTLY affects his/her performance that they are being paid for by YOUR company, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO LET THEM GO.

I take my work for my employer seriously and I don’t jeopardize it, meaning I don’t interfere with company time while I’m getting my business up and running. If I wasn’t performing, I’d expect to be let go. But if my boss ever told me I had to choose between my business and his company I’d tell him it was nice working with you and goodbye. What I do on MY time is MY business and I won’t give up on my dreams and goals for anyone. 

***The main reason that ‘rule’ is in the handbook is to protect you when in the event you need to let someone go for that reason you can refer back to that and they can’t -er...well, it's harder to try to sue your pants off.

You said the employee was a good one…well, in my opinion (and that’s all that it is). You should:

-Take care of the equipment issue immediately.
-Compliment him on his ambition to work harder and earn more (this country needs more people willing to do so.) That trait can be a tremendous asset to your company.
-Find out if there is a way you can use that ambition for mutual benefit, kinda like you did with the other guy with cleaning up late. 
***Don’t rule out that you may be able to channel his ambition towards training for higher skills, thus increasing his VALUE which would result in increased productivity enabling you to justify paying him more.
-You as a business owner need to make the decision…you make the decision, not the handbook…if the side work does in fact reduce performance. From that, you can determine the proper action. 


Like I said, I could go on quite a bit, but I hope this helps. You’re welcome to PM me and I’ll give you my phone number if you have any other questions about this.


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## JUDGE1162

Thank you for all the replies so far ad keep them coming, you guys seem to be on the same page as me.

Using company equipment is not allowed, but do I just talk to him and tell he he needs to stop using them and leave it there or do I take it further and suspend him even just for a day you let him and others that this is company policy and needs to be taken seriously.

The moonlighting, I think I am going to let him know that I know about it and our policy is it is not allowed with out permission and that I am fine with it as long as it does not conflict with his job at the company and leave it at that.


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## curdy

JUDGE1162 said:


> let him and others that this is company policy and needs to be taken seriously.



If he feels like part of your reasoning is to send a message to others, it may cause more harm than good...keep that in mind. Sounds like he made a poor judgment to me. Take a moment to teach him why that was a bad judgment and what risk it puts you at liability-wise and financially. Doing so greatly reduces the chance for resentment, and significantly reduces the chances of OTHER bad judgments. 



JUDGE1162 said:


> The moonlighting, I think I am going to let him know that I know about it and our policy is it is not allowed with out permission and that I am fine with it as long as it does not conflict with his job at the company and leave it at that.



Judge, toss in an honest compliment to his ambition in the beginning and watch his commitment level multiply...


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## jonseredbred

equipment use is theft, 

working a second job is not preventable at all

but if his second job if it is competing with you in the same field of work it is another story. 

I have soften the problem by allowing guys to bring the buzz jobs to me, we do them on saturdays for $$ and split the proceeds as a kinda sorta bonus. it seems to keep them happy, give then some extra cash, keeps them safe (under company saftey rules) and keeps them from becoming competition.


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## Climb020

I wouldn't let him go to easy no matter how good of a worker he may be. IMO using company equipment is both demeaning to yourself and the company. If he fills that I can perform jobs on his own then he should also have the equipment to do so. I would suspend him for a few days to let him know that you are still the boss and braking rules will not be tolerated from anyone.

As far as the moonlight goes though. Have you concidered outlining the main territory you work in and allowing your workers to do work in areas that you normally don't. This could be a plus for you that if they are bringing in work in other areas, they are bound to come across jobs they cannot do and refer the job back to you.


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## twoodward15

If he's doing work on the side then he's not making enough money. If he's that good an employee then you need to pay him more. ask him what it will take to get him to stop working nights/weekends. he probably doesn't want to do it any more than you want him too, but he needs to eat. Unfortunately it is probably all he knows or it is what he knows best. I wouldn't have a problem with him using saws, but no trucks. I'd certainly let him use the safety equipment if he is doing small jobs that you wouldn't take. I say pay more or let him use the disposable stuff to help him make the money he needs. keep in mind that he may be looking to start his own business and is putting out feelers for work.


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## Climb020

twoodward15 said:


> If he's doing work on the side then he's not making enough money. If he's that good an employee then you need to pay him more. ask him what it will take to get him to stop working nights/weekends. he probably doesn't want to do it any more than you want him too, but he needs to eat.




I would have to say that this is not necessarily true. I make now in 2 days what use to take 5-6 days to make. I make more then I need to "eat" but still work 6 days a week to have the extra. Who isn't happy making more money?


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## Shaun Bowler

Hey Judge, I was wondering how you started in this industry.
In my day I have met a few Contractors that know how to make money, and run a business; have never done tree work. 
Good for them! 
Some of the most educating tree skills I have learned were on my side jobs.
Doing more with less. 
I believe you create a disfunctional work enviorment when you ask employees to sign contracts regulating what they do away from work.
Because you know what? They will do what is in their best interest.
So what is created in the work place is a community of deception.
It will always be you (the company) against them.


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## Ekka

Do you think he would take leads off you and do the work later for himself?

For example, a neib wants a small prune job, comes out and speaks to him, he takes the details and does it on the weekend.

I know a line clearance business that set up it's untrustworthy employee, had a lady come out asking for a tree removal ... the employee took her details for himself, gave her his number not the companies and contacted her later about the job. FIRED!


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## JayD

Me personally would tell it to him straight,warn him and and if he keeps on doing it let him go...most times you teach them everything they know and I feel they owe you loyalty..you put up with the mistakes..the near misses...they literally cut their teeth working for you where would they be if you didn't take the time...but I feel with loyalty you reward this you look after them as best as you can,but it is upsetting when your gut start saying to you this blokes not being straight with us..warn him then take action you have a lot of money invested in your business and no one gave it to you!..be fair..be strict,if he listens great,if not well it's the highway.


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## Ekka

Well, I'm glad you said it JayD.

Be careful ... Americans are sensative new agers and find us Aussies a little blunt. But we're straight to the point.


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## twoodward15

I agree Climb020, but if he's working 5 days a week now for a tree service I'd have to believe he is tired enough when he gets home for the day that if he was paid enough he wouldn't seek other work. Unless he is planning on starting his own business..............


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## jonseredbred

Ekka said:


> Do you think he would take leads off you and do the work later for himself?
> 
> For example, a neib wants a small prune job, comes out and speaks to him, he takes the details and does it on the weekend.
> 
> I know a line clearance business that set up it's untrustworthy employee, had a lady come out asking for a tree removal ... the employee took her details for himself, gave her his number not the companies and contacted her later about the job. FIRED!



BINGO!!!!!!:rockn:


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## Dadatwins

Friends and business do not mix. 99.9% of boss and workers friendships will not work. Its OK to be friendly with your staff, but there has to be a point where the business comes first and the friendship will suffer. Using your equipment on his side jobs is a major No-No, Like the solution of him bringing his side jobs to you and you figuring out a fair split on the work. A conversation is definetly in order for this employee very soon before the situation gets worse and the other workers start playing monkey see -monkey do. good luck.


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## JUDGE1162

*update*

I spoke to him on Friday, said It had come to my attention that he was working side jobs, I asked him if he knew that, doing so was against company policy and why he felt it was necessary to work these other jobs?

His response was, yes he knows it was against company policy to compete with the company, but he did not feel he was competing with the company with his side jobs. We discussed a few of his jobs and I agreed that for the most part that these jobs did not compete with me ad agreed that I was fine with him doing these other job as long as they did not complete with me and if did not effect his performance at work.

I then talked to him about equipment usage and ho I saw it as theft of the equipment, the seemed to be quite sorry, said he could not afford equipment, at which point I told him if you can’t afford the equipment then you should not being the work. I am not sure if he agreed with me as all he kept saying is I am not using the equipment on the weekends. I told him that he had broken company policy and that he was suspended for 3 day and the next time he used company equipment without permission I would have to let him go, figured it was a good week to do it as three days gives him the whole week off (since I don’t work turkey day or the Friday after) it will give him a week to cool his heels and either come back to work and work within my rules or find another job.


Thank you for all your input; it was nice to see his point of view and the point of view of other owners.

To reply to some of the points raised:

I don’t think his was work extra jobs to put food on the table, I pay my employees fairly to better then most companies, one of the reason most of my employees don’t leave. He likes his toys (ATV, Snowmobiles, Cars, etc) that is why he does the extra work.

The whole I should pay him off (give him a raise so he stops work other jobs) just seems wrong why should I reward bad behavior and what message does that send to other employees. The other side of tell him he owes me a cut of the work also does not seem fair to me, in fact if my boss would have said that to me I would have said FU and I quit..

I really don’t think he is planning to start his own company as he has no real equipment of his own, he has no insurance, and he really is doing small jobs.

Thanks again I’ll post another update once he come back from his suspension


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## Climb020

That's great to hear. I hope that everything works it's self out being good help is so hard to fine.


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## jmack

JUDGE1162 said:


> I spoke to him on Friday, said It had come to my attention that he was working side jobs, I asked him if he knew that, doing so was against company policy and why he felt it was necessary to work these other jobs?
> 
> His response was, yes he knows it was against company policy to compete with the company, but he did not feel he was competing with the company with his side jobs. We discussed a few of his jobs and I agreed that for the most part that these jobs did not compete with me ad agreed that I was fine with him doing these other job as long as they did not complete with me and if did not effect his performance at work.
> 
> I then talked to him about equipment usage and ho I saw it as theft of the equipment, the seemed to be quite sorry, said he could not afford equipment, at which point I told him if you can’t afford the equipment then you should not being the work. I am not sure if he agreed with me as all he kept saying is I am not using the equipment on the weekends. I told him that he had broken company policy and that he was suspended for 3 day and the next time he used company equipment without permission I would have to let him go, figured it was a good week to do it as three days gives him the whole week off (since I don’t work turkey day or the Friday after) it will give him a week to cool his heels and either come back to work and work within my rules or find another job.
> 
> 
> Thank you for all your input; it was nice to see his point of view and the point of view of other owners.
> 
> To reply to some of the points raised:
> 
> I don’t think his was work extra jobs to put food on the table, I pay my employees fairly to better then most companies, one of the reason most of my employees don’t leave. He likes his toys (ATV, Snowmobiles, Cars, etc) that is why he does the extra work.
> 
> The whole I should pay him off (give him a raise so he stops work other jobs) just seems wrong why should I reward bad behavior and what message does that send to other employees. The other side of tell him he owes me a cut of the work also does not seem fair to me, in fact if my boss would have said that to me I would have said FU and I quit..
> 
> I really don’t think he is planning to start his own company as he has no real equipment of his own, he has no insurance, and he really is doing small jobs.
> 
> Thanks again I’ll post another update once he come back from his suspension


 hope it works out, another good one to throw to this guy is the small jobs you dont want, that way he is on the side but he wont do anything stoopid


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## SRT-Tech

Theft? having a bit of an issue with calling what the OP's employee did with the saw "theft".

You can call it "theft" when someone deliberately takes your chainsaw (or equipment) and does'nt return it (pawns it, sells it from home etc), but i'd hardly call borrowing the saw for a weekend job "theft", because he is returning the saw every time. 

HOWEVER.....

I would call it MISUSE of company equipment and discipline him accordingly, but "theft" is a more serious accusation, best used when your saw ends up in a pawn shop. And if your going to use the "theft" label, there should be a termination, and a police report as well. Your guy in question did return the saw after he was done using it, thats not theft. (misuse, violation of policy, yes, but not theft)

just saying.....


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## B-Edwards

How'd it go ? The guy quit or is he happy now and all is well? I hope it worked out well for all .


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## JUDGE1162

Everythig seems to be good, he came back to work, still doing a good job. We will see if it stays that way but so far so good.


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## johncinco

I think you handled it very well, and a lot of the advice was spot on. The only thing you left off that you should have done was written it all down, provided him a copy, and have him sign a copy you keep. That would back up any problem in the future and have covered you against him coming after you for unlarful termination, or if he got hurt or caused harm with your equipment, you dont want joe home owner coming after you as well. 

Yes, lawyers suck.


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## ericjeeper

*I have a few questions to ask.*

Ok so how is it he has your saws? Does he drive a company truck?
or is he just a super nice guy and hauls your dirty oily chainsaws and other tools in his personal vehicle?
I was an employee for 11 years with the same company. Not doing tree work. but general construction.I felt and told em that if I had to haul company tools around I was going to treat them like mine. and use them whenever I felt the need.
Now I own my own window sales and installation company, and just have one employee. I haul all the tools he just shows up with his hammer and prybar.
I haul all the tools in my 14 foot box truck.
But when I was with The acoustic company, they seemed to think an employee should haul their tools around for free.. and trust me a lot of side jobs were completed using their lasers and stilts and such.,But when you think about it.. How would the company manage to have tools delivered to every little small job that the company picked up?
So letting the guys use the tools on side jobs is just part of the convenience of having the employee keeping the tools in their personal truck.
Ok back to the point. If you do not wish for employees to use your tools after hours. You should be at the job at the end of the workday to collect all the equipment, and show up by start time the following day with the equipment, all sharpened up lubed up and filled up with fuel ready to go.Just my 2 cents


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## Quercus34

It sounds like there is some opportunity there for you and your employees to make more money. If you have people willing to work and there is work that can be done you should consider expanding your hours.

I would offer a comission on all work that your employess bring in. Offer overtime to anyone that wants to work evenings/ weekends or when ever, within reason. That could put a lot more money in your pocket without forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to.


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## Lou

I think ya done good. Just want to add "Reprimand in private", "Praise in public, OFTEN".


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## BoesTreeService

*Take a stand*

I cant really think of any reasons that allowing an employee to do side jobs is beneficial. You can bet they are getting the jobs through YOUR advertsing, even if its just the shirt with your companies name on it, or his family-because they still ask him because he is a tree worker-and he is YOUR tree worker in that regard. 

If he is willing to bring in other jobs, and wants to work the extra hours, that is a good thing. Have him bring the job to the company, give him a bonus for getting you the work if thats the case, and pay him overtime to do the job. He is happy, and you are happy. 

No way will I ever allow a person to take my investment, my advertising and use it to make money with out a return for me. I was finding my ex-employee was underbidding what I would have bid on a job- of course he could since he had no overhead at all!

If he has your equipment, and puts a tree on a house, you better be sure that you will be sued for the damages. This information comes from the insurance industry. Just some thoughts, remember you are in business to make money, not be a charity sourse for your employees. I am good to my employees, and I expect the same in return.


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