# sky line?



## rmihalek (Mar 5, 2010)

Did the Browning crew really cook that sky line? Are they $40,000 to replace? Can they be spliced?


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## wvlogger (Mar 5, 2010)

I would think that you could cut the bad place out and splice an eye in the line.


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## alderman (Mar 5, 2010)

We just replaced a 62' 1 1/4" cable at work. $1400


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## logloper (Mar 5, 2010)

Look on Baileys website, 100' 5/8 swaged bull line for under 300$ Not even 3$ a foot. 2000' of cable= 3000$ Way exaggerated for the show. You might braid it back, but a eye splice would not roll up to good.


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## oregoncutter (Mar 6, 2010)

*Yes, and no, and depends!*



rmihalek said:


> Did the Browning crew really cook that sky line? Are they $40,000 to replace? Can they be spliced?


I don't know if they really did or not, and depending on the diameter, quality, and length of the skyline it could cost that maybe more, it has to be taken up to the site, the old skyline pulled from the drum, the new line spooled onto the drum, then ran back to the tailhold again. Skyline can be spliced, but factors have to be taken in, if You cut the bad spot out will You have enough line to hang out as far as You need to, the condition of the line over it's entire length, extensions can also be used to gain length, but add a little extra time to stringing out the line, if I remember right different folks have varying policies on how many splices can be in a skyline.
Hope this helps.


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## Gologit (Mar 6, 2010)

oregoncutter said:


> I don't know if they really did or not, and depending on the diameter, quality, and length of the skyline it could cost that maybe more, it has to be taken up to the site, the old skyline pulled from the drum, the new line spooled onto the drum, then ran back to the tailhold again. Skyline can be spliced, but factors have to be taken in, if You cut the bad spot out will You have enough line to hang out as far as You need to, the condition of the line over it's entire length, extensions can also be used to gain length, but add a little extra time to stringing out the line, if I remember right different folks have varying policies on how many splices can be in a skyline.
> Hope this helps.



Good post. If you add in the cost of lost production for whatever time it takes to get going again it can get pretty expensive.


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## Burvol (Mar 6, 2010)

Not to mention how many loads your losing, ####ing around with a splice....


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## 2dogs (Mar 6, 2010)

Burvol said:


> Not to mention how many loads your losing, ####ing around with a splice....



And a long splice is a pain in the neck to do out in the dirt. Fewer and fewer men have that knowledge. I don't know anything about those big yarders but it may hold 6,000' of 1 1/4 or 1 1/2" skyline. There is probably a rigging truck to go with it too. 

BTW Bailey's does not sell skyline cable, they sell skidder cables. They used to get their rope from Cowlitz, don't know if they still do. You don't mail order a skyline cable and have UPS drop it at the front door. A rigging truck is needed. Give one of the rigging shops a call and see how much they charge for 6,000' of 1 1/4" rope and how much it weighs.


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## Burvol (Mar 6, 2010)

I didn't read his post until yours....

There's a big difference between bull line and skyline.


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## Gologit (Mar 6, 2010)

2dogs said:


> Give one of the rigging shops a call and see how much they charge for 6,000' of 1 1/4" rope and how much it weighs.



No thanks...I get grumpy enough just ordering Cat chokers. And splicing? Forgot how. Lost my tools. Never learned. Broke the end off my spikes. Using my clamps for paper weights in the office. Pick any excuse that suits you 'cause it suits me not to have to splice anymore. But if you want to do the work I'll be a technical advisor and consultant.


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## 2dogs (Mar 6, 2010)

Gologit said:


> No thanks...I get grumpy enough just ordering Cat chokers. And splicing? Forgot how. Lost my tools. Never learned. Broke the end off my spikes. Using my clamps for paper weights in the office. Pick any excuse that suits you 'cause it suits me not to have to splice anymore. But if you want to do the work I'll be a technical advisor and consultant.



Thanks Bob, I knew I could count on you for...nuthing!

I just uhm found some railroad spikes for using as clamps when working on the small wire ropes I use. Even that is no fun.


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## Gologit (Mar 6, 2010)

2dogs said:


> Thanks Bob, I knew I could count on you for...nuthing!
> 
> I just uhm found some railroad spikes for using as clamps when working on the small wire ropes I use. Even that is no fun.



 Hey, I offered free technical advice and consultation. You can't put a value on that and apparently you don't. I already have all the wire scars, blue thumb nails, and wire rope specific cuss words I need. You can go get some of your own now...I happily pass that torch to the younger generation.

And get yourself a cable vise...I mean for cryin' out loud, _railroad spikes_ ?
Even us over-the-hill, neanderthal, Geritol chugging, knuckle dragger senior citizen types quit using railroad spikes years ago. About the time the Felton railroad switched from steam to diesel I think it was. That should give you some local perspective.

*Marlin*spikes...not railroad spikes...less of that invisible internal damage to the wire that way. Cheapskate.


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## slowp (Mar 7, 2010)

*This Is Scary*

A couple of times, I delivered copies of how to splice line--different splices, to crews who needed to figure it out. I can't splice, but I guess if you had forgotten how it was a good reminder. The guys who can splice are disappearing. I've come across two guys arguing over the way to do a flat splice. That's on the skyline. I think they were both saying the same thing only differently.

Railroad spikes? Haven't seen those except pounded into a small log for use in holding the wires apart while using *Marlin Spikes *to splice with.


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## Burvol (Mar 7, 2010)

My Dad is a good splicer, not me.

I quite logging as soon as I got a taste of it, and theses such things. 

I chose the timber faller end of things full time 6 years ago (was learning to cut while working in the brush) about the time I got some infections and swollen fingers from jaggers... 

Logging is awesome, I love it, but I am a timber faller, not a logger. This I know in my heart. We are on the same team though, as I am a timber faller who has pulled line and set chokers. A lot as a kid. And as a young adult. I know how hard that job can even be on a grapple skidder or in the brush below a tower, it pays to have the falling job done right, and for the log's sake as well. 

I do 100% of my saw and chain work, so you can keep on splicing. I do not want to touch that torch.


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## slowp (Mar 7, 2010)

I did an eye splice. Once. Since I seem to have a learning problem when it comes to knots, I promptly forgot how to do it. But I have that sheet of paper somewhere with how to do splices for those who are more inclined to do it. 

Splicing seems to cause the use of inefficient language.


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## 2dogs (Mar 7, 2010)

slowp said:


> Railroad spikes? Haven't seen those except pounded into a small log for use in holding the wires apart while using *Marlin Spikes *to splice with.



Yes, this is what I meant. RR spikes as a vice. I am shocked as to how expensive fids (marlin spikes) are. I got both mine used from various places. BTW fid is a good Scrabble word in those last desparate plays.


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## cuznguido (Mar 7, 2010)

Browning is probably factoring in helicopter time since he seems fond of using them to string his line. That can't be cheap.


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## logloper (Mar 7, 2010)

So, enlighten me with some knowledge. What is the difference in skyline cable, and in bulline cable? What size of cable is standard for a skyline? Is a different type of cable used for the main skyline than for the cable which is atatched to the carriage? These types of machines are not used in my part of the country, but I do have an interest in learning about them.


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## clearance (Mar 7, 2010)

logloper said:


> So, enlighten me with some knowledge. What is the difference in skyline cable, and in bulline cable? What size of cable is standard for a skyline? Is a different type of cable used for the main skyline than for the cable which is atatched to the carriage? These types of machines are not used in my part of the country, but I do have an interest in learning about them.



Just type in haulback mainline on Google and look around.


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## oregoncutter (Mar 8, 2010)

*A little terminology!*



logloper said:


> So, enlighten me with some knowledge. What is the difference in skyline cable, and in bulline cable? What size of cable is standard for a skyline? Is a different type of cable used for the main skyline than for the cable which is atatched to the carriage? These types of machines are not used in my part of the country, but I do have an interest in learning about them.



The skyline is the line You're carriage or butt riggin is suspended from or riding on. The diameters vary influenced by factors like how much weight or stress will be on it, how much can fit on the drum, and even cost. There can be two cables attached to a carriage for example a Boman with an internal drum and dropline has to have the skidding line from the yarder attached to the side facing the yarder that's the skidline, it pulls the carriage and whatever is attached to it toward the yarder( the skidlines job can change for example using a clampline carriage like an acme it still pulls the carriage toward the yarder but also serves as a dropline depending on the function at the time). Then the other line that might be attached to a carriage would be the haulback most the time the riggin can be sent back quite aways, but if there's a big belly or low point in the skyline, or an uphill section gravity won't take it far enough back, so the haulback is attached to the side facing the tailhold. Just a simple setup You're skyline is tensioned on the drum, and attached to a tailhold it's mostly stationary depending upon the riggin, and can be ttightened or slacked as needed. Skidline attached to a whatever the hell you want to skid logs with, and pulled in and let out off the drum. haulback ran from the yarder to atleast one block, to reverse the direction of pull then to the tailhold side of the carriage brings the carriage back when gravity won't or a pull opposite the skidding direction would be needed. Haywire smallest line used for layouts, changing roads, general utility like keeping ornery logs on the landing or whatever ya need it for at the time, or keeping a chaser busy or a good way to get even with a Hooktender You don't like. In my book bulline is Your'e cable on a skidder or cat rigged with a hook or sliders toawrd the end. I hope this answers a few questions there can be so many variations in setups that a guy could probably write a book or three so this isn't real detailed. Or whatever google want's to tell You!


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## Humptulips (Mar 8, 2010)

logloper said:


> So, enlighten me with some knowledge. What is the difference in skyline cable, and in bulline cable? What size of cable is standard for a skyline? Is a different type of cable used for the main skyline than for the cable which is atatched to the carriage? These types of machines are not used in my part of the country, but I do have an interest in learning about them.



Just read this so I'm jumping in late. Skyline size on most yardes now is considerably reduced from days gone by but probably most would be 7/8 to 1 1/8. The bigger yarders used to use a lot of 1 3/8 and 1 1/2 with some of the behemoths up to 2 inch. The biggest I ever had the pleasure to splice was 1 5/8.
I doubt if anyone is buying much over 2000' of skyline and mostly a lot less today. The machines just won't hold that much line and if you need more you use extensions.
Then you get into swaged or power pack line. Most skylines are probably swaged now as they last longer and are stronger for the amount you can spool. Harder to splice though.
The price qouted does not seem unreasonable to me and that is just the cost of the line. I admit I didn't see the show ( can't stand to watch it anymore) but where I have worked unless the line was totally toast you splice. I can't imagine junking the line if a piece could be cut out. What did they do that could burn the entire line? Someone would lose their job if that is the case any place I have been.

Splicing is not that hard but it takes practise. You cannot do it once and be good. Repetition makes for a good splicer. Without trying to brag I think myself to be a pretty good man with a marlin spike. Perhaps I worked for too many gypos trying for a little more out of a piece of line. I know I hooked on a slackline once for and outfit that it seemed we were continually splicing. we had it down where we could put in a long splice in 1 3/8 in an hour or even a little less.
Think of it this way. $40,000 for a new skyline or and hour even two to put it back together. Six guys at say with benefits $40/hr/man . Right at about $500 so there better be a darn good reason to junk it.


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## Humptulips (Mar 8, 2010)

slowp said:


> A couple of times, I delivered copies of how to splice line--different splices, to crews who needed to figure it out. I can't splice, but I guess if you had forgotten how it was a good reminder. The guys who can splice are disappearing. I've come across two guys arguing over the way to do a flat splice. That's on the skyline. I think they were both saying the same thing only differently.
> 
> Railroad spikes? Haven't seen those except pounded into a small log for use in holding the wires apart while using *Marlin Spikes *to splice with.



Enlighten as to this flat splice. Never heard the term. For long splicing I've done many a tucked in long splice and a few rolled in long splices. Could this be one of them?


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## slowp (Mar 8, 2010)

It's the one the carriage will go over. They called it a flat splice for that reason. It may not be a mainstream term.


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## Humptulips (Mar 8, 2010)

slowp said:


> It's the one the carriage will go over. They called it a flat splice for that reason. It may not be a mainstream term.



Must be a rolled in long splice. Most of the carriages will go over either but some of the dropline carriages (older ones) won't go over a tucked splice. 
It's not a hard splice to learn but is so seldom used that a lot of guys have never seen it. 
It is a lot of work because you have to unroll so much line. On a 7/8th or 1 inch line you have to allow about 6 feet on every strand so the whole splice endes up being like 70 feet long. Bigger the line the longer it has to be.


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## ray benson (Mar 8, 2010)

It looked like the skyline cable was about 7/8" to 1" dia.


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## Humptulips (Mar 8, 2010)

ray benson said:


> It looked like the skyline cable was about 7/8" to 1" dia.



Then $40,000 does seem a bit excessive unless their was damage to something else such as the carriage.


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## wvlogger (Mar 8, 2010)

i dont agree with his fix. It may work but its not safe and killing production.


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## 541logtrucker (Mar 8, 2010)

*Its fake*

I'd say no they didnt. Looked like orange paint to me. Our crew wraps the haulback and skyline a dozen times a day. They are just playing it up for tv. You can actually see orange paint overspray on the ground.


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## 056 kid (Mar 8, 2010)

rmihalek said:


> Did the Browning crew really cook that sky line? Are they $40,000 to replace? Can they be spliced?



i have burned skidder lines many times, usually they just loosten back up, I never knew that burning them would take that much strength out of them. 

As for 40 large, I do not think so. . . . . .


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## 056 kid (Mar 8, 2010)

541logtrucker said:


> I'd say no they didnt. Looked like orange paint to me. Our crew wraps the haulback and skyline a dozen times a day. They are just playing it up for tv. You can actually see orange paint overspray on the ground.



I think the paint is to mark the bad spot.


BUT, I totally agree that its a fake...


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## 056 kid (Mar 8, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> Just read this so I'm jumping in late. Skyline size on most yardes now is considerably reduced from days gone by but probably most would be 7/8 to 1 1/8. The bigger yarders used to use a lot of 1 3/8 and 1 1/2 with some of the behemoths up to 2 inch. The biggest I ever had the pleasure to splice was 1 5/8.
> I doubt if anyone is buying much over 2000' of skyline and mostly a lot less today. The machines just won't hold that much line and if you need more you use extensions.
> Then you get into swaged or power pack line. Most skylines are probably swaged now as they last longer and are stronger for the amount you can spool. Harder to splice though.
> The price qouted does not seem unreasonable to me and that is just the cost of the line. I admit I didn't see the show ( can't stand to watch it anymore) but where I have worked unless the line was totally toast you splice. I can't imagine junking the line if a piece could be cut out. What did they do that could burn the entire line? Someone would lose their job if that is the case any place I have been.
> ...



Does swaged mean that the line is all round & smooth like? I know the line we run on skidders is swaged. The Madill 671 that I have worked under ran a 7/8 main line. I do not think it was swaged, it was like choker cable.


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## Humptulips (Mar 9, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Does swaged mean that the line is all round & smooth like? I know the line we run on skidders is swaged. The Madill 671 that I have worked under ran a 7/8 main line. I do not think it was swaged, it was like choker cable.



Yes. Regular line will have strands with rounded wires.

Swaged is when they run the line through a press that flattens out the outside strands so each individual wire in the strand will look somewhat flat on the outside. Power pack I believe is a trade name but that is double swaged. They swage each strand before it is put together and then swage the whole works after it is assembled.

Swaged line is not as big around for comparable strength so you can fit more on a drum while retaining strength. It wears better and resists cuts better but it will crystalize sooner. Stiffer and harder to splice as the lay is very tight.


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## 056 kid (Mar 9, 2010)

great learning! More??


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## slowp (Mar 9, 2010)

I believe most of the smaller yarders now in use have around 1000 feet or less of skyline on them. They seldom have to yard much further. This is locally. 

Humptulips, when there is a guy standing on the yarder hitting the line with a hammer as it is spooled in on the drum, is that to make it so all the line will spool in tightly? I don't believe they've shown that on TV.


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## Humptulips (Mar 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> I believe most of the smaller yarders now in use have around 1000 feet or less of skyline on them. They seldom have to yard much further. This is locally.
> 
> Humptulips, when there is a guy standing on the yarder hitting the line with a hammer as it is spooled in on the drum, is that to make it so all the line will spool in tightly? I don't believe they've shown that on TV.



Yes, It is especially important to get the line tight and spooled straight on the skyline because when the line is in use it will come tight at the same place on the drum every turn. If there is a gap in the spooling on the drum it will cause abrasion on the line at one point or cause the line to deform. The beating of the line on to the drum keeps it tight plus it helps to make it spool right.
On something like the haulback or skidding line you need to get the part of the line that is not coming off the drum well spooled. If it is not the line will get succesively more out of place every course that goes on. This can cause it to pile up on one side. Big problems can ensue from that.
Sometimes it is not easy to do but important. Many times I have been standing down in the drums beating the ####ens out of a line while things were really getting tight trying to get things started right. It's amazing that it would make a difference pounding on it when the yarder is pulling so hard but it does help.
A guy I worked for was on the volunteer fire department and went on a call to where a guy had been pulled into the drums while spooling the haulback. Guess he went around the drum twice. Lost his hand but lived.

Kind of not your question but fits witht the thread is when a splice comes on the drum. This causes problems as you cannot get it to spool right. You will see guys putting sticks and limbs into the spaces caused by the splice trying to make it work. It's a headache. This is one place I've used a rolled in splice if it's not coming off the drum often as it will spool better. Of course a tucked splice will smooth up and be not bad after it gets worn in and the "whiskers" are gone but you need it to run through a block or fairlead some for that to happen.

I bet Axeman never shows any of this kind of stuff. BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Burvol (Mar 9, 2010)

Two years ago cutting I got to experience 4000' feet of line with a carriage I don't even know how high. Wow. Highlead is real logging in my book. I'm just a log cutter, but I have never seen a big tower work like that. Awesome stuff.


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## Booshcat (Mar 9, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> Yes, It is especially important to get the line tight and spooled straight on the skyline because when the line is in use it will come tight at the same place on the drum every turn. If there is a gap in the spooling on the drum it will cause abrasion on the line at one point or cause the line to deform. The beating of the line on to the drum keeps it tight plus it helps to make it spool right.
> On something like the haulback or skidding line you need to get the part of the line that is not coming off the drum well spooled. If it is not the line will get succesively more out of place every course that goes on. This can cause it to pile up on one side. Big problems can ensue from that.
> Sometimes it is not easy to do but important. Many times I have been standing down in the drums beating the ####ens out of a line while things were really getting tight trying to get things started right. It's amazing that it would make a difference pounding on it when the yarder is pulling so hard but it does help.
> A guy I worked for was on the volunteer fire department and went on a call to where a guy had been pulled into the drums while spooling the haulback. Guess he went around the drum twice. Lost his hand but lived.
> ...



Boring my Azz, this is the kind of info I come here for!
Thanks and rep coming your way!


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## slowp (Mar 9, 2010)

Axmen would show some of the wadded up line trying to spool off. I have seen a couple nasty tangles--both with the same outfit and happening more than once. Come to think of it, they never had anybody doing the hammer thing and seldom had anybody watching it spool on. 

I used to have coffee before visiting their side. It was wise to be on your toes when around their operation and be ready to move or dive behind a stump.


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## Humptulips (Mar 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> Axmen would show some of the wadded up line trying to spool off. I have seen a couple nasty tangles--both with the same outfit and happening more than once. Come to think of it, they never had anybody doing the hammer thing and seldom had anybody watching it spool on.
> 
> I used to have coffee before visiting their side. It was wise to be on your toes when around their operation and be ready to move or dive behind a stump.



Nasty tangles can happen.  Boy don't I know that
One time the engineer got off the yarder with the carriage in the air on the landing. He shut it off to do something and the air bled off and the carriage took off. (No maxi on the machine). Went about 800 feet and the drum kept rolling with about a 1000 feet on it untill it got so fouled it hung up. What a mess! Took almost a half day to get that straightened out. Thought we were going to have to cut it a few times but saved it.
Another time we were stringing an 1800 foot extension and the darn thing hung up. We had to stop but almost the whole thing kept running down into a canyon. Me and another guy had to go down and upend almost the whole thing by hand to pull it out of there. 1 3/8' too. Ouch!!!!
It can happen to anybody and it will if you're out there long enough.


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## 2dogs (Mar 10, 2010)

Humper what is the biggest yarder ever made. And how much wire rope in total is spooled up on those big machines. 

Sawbones if you are here too please jump in.


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## Humptulips (Mar 10, 2010)

2dogs said:


> Humper what is the biggest yarder ever made. And how much wire rope in total is spooled up on those big machines.
> 
> Sawbones if you are here too please jump in.



Well, I'm not sure I really know the answer to that. Probably some specialty yarders built that were really big. 
The biggest I ever worked on was a Skagit 199. It held 6000' of 1 1/2" skyline, 4800' of 1 1/4" skidding line and 10,000' of 1' haulback. I know Dalgrens had or has a big machine that ran 1 7/8" skyline. There was also an outfit up here for a while that had a two machine yarder with a stationary skyline. I went up and saw it when they had out 6000' of 2" skyline. The skidding machine was a Skagit and the skyline part looked home made. Farthest I every yarded was about 3000' but had the skyline out over a mile a few times.
Biggest just in sheer weight would probably be a Washington Flyer unit. That's like from the steam days. My Dad worked on one and said they had 2" skyline and 1 3/8" skidding line. They had an interesting article in the paper once. A reprint in the history section about one being loaded out on a ship for CA. It said in the article it weighed 250 tons. Now that's some serious iron.
My Dad also mentioned the Tyler skyline machines they used in the early days. They had 2 1/8" stationary skyline. There are pictures in that Saginaw book of them if you have it. My Dad is on page 87 farthest to the left. My uncle is the tallest in the picture.


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## 056 kid (Mar 10, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> Well, I'm not sure I really know the answer to that. Probably some specialty yarders built that were really big.
> The biggest I ever worked on was a Skagit 199. It held 6000' of 1 1/2" skyline, 4800' of 1 1/4" skidding line and 10,000' of 1' haulback. I know Dalgrens had or has a big machine that ran 1 7/8" skyline. There was also an outfit up here for a while that had a two machine yarder with a stationary skyline. I went up and saw it when they had out 6000' of 2" skyline. The skidding machine was a Skagit and the skyline part looked home made. Farthest I every yarded was about 3000' but had the skyline out over a mile a few times.
> Biggest just in sheer weight would probably be a Washington Flyer unit. That's like from the steam days. My Dad worked on one and said they had 2" skyline and 1 3/8" skidding line. They had an interesting article in the paper once. A reprint in the history section about one being loaded out on a ship for CA. It said in the article it weighed 250 tons. Now that's some serious iron.
> My Dad also mentioned the Tyler skyline machines they used in the early days. They had 2 1/8" stationary skyline. There are pictures in that Saginaw book of them if you have it. My Dad is on page 87 farthest to the left. My uncle is the tallest in the picture.




W O W... theres a vid on youtube of a doser being toted by a yarder, dont know what kind though, sounds like the mentioned machines could do that without even knowing it..


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## rubberducky (Mar 10, 2010)

*You also have to figure that they are probobly figureing*

You also have to figure that they are probobly figureing the total money lost....man hours, cable, loads not hauled for the remainder of the day, the skycars cable if it burned into that enough to ruin it, the chockers that broke off the skycars cable when they tried to untangle it. I didnt read the whole thread so sorry if someone had mentioned this already.


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## 2dogs (Mar 10, 2010)

What is a stationary skyline?


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## Humptulips (Mar 10, 2010)

2dogs said:


> What is a stationary skyline?



A skyline that is not on a live drum. It's up and it stays up all the time.
Several ways to do that. The most common on spar trees was to spike it on a stump. You would run it through a jack on the tree and tighten it aorund the stump and nail it. Probably when you see an old picture of a North Bend system this is the way it was. The other way is to have a machine with a drum with dogs on it. Pull it up tight and dog it. Those old Tylers and the skidders too (Talking old time steam machines here, donkeys not these rubber tired things everyone thinks of as skidders now)were like that. I worked on a Kohler thinner that had a similar set up. The Tylers and skidders though had a heel tackle set up so they had a small line with I think 4 blocks purchse to tighten and hold the skyline. The other way is to have a seperate machine for the skyline.
In a way you could say any of the skyline machines with a motorized carriage now are essentially using a stationary skyline. They can drop it easily but most of the time it stays up.


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## Gologit (Mar 11, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> A skyline that is not on a live drum. It's up and it stays up all the time.
> Several ways to do that. The most common on spar trees was to spike it on a stump. You would run it through a jack on the tree and tighten it aorund the stump and nail it. Probably when you see an old picture of a North Bend system this is the way it was. The other way is to have a machine with a drum with dogs on it. Pull it up tight and dog it. Those old Tylers and the skidders too (Talking old time steam machines here, donkeys not these rubber tired things everyone thinks of as skidders now)were like that. I worked on a Kohler thinner that had a similar set up. The Tylers and skidders though had a heel tackle set up so they had a small line with I think 4 blocks purchse to tighten and hold the skyline. The other way is to have a seperate machine for the skyline.
> In a way you could say any of the skyline machines with a motorized carriage now are essentially using a stationary skyline. They can drop it easily but most of the time it stays up.



Not telling you what to do but did you ever think of writing all this stuff down?
When people like you are gone this kind of knowledge is gone forever, too. You've seen and done things most people haven't. Write it down, maybe send it to Logger's World or something. That way the information doesn't just fade away. I'll shut the hell up now.


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## 056 kid (Mar 11, 2010)

Thats a *great *idea.


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## oregoncutter (Mar 11, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Not telling you what to do but did you ever think of writing all this stuff down?
> When people like you are gone this kind of knowledge is gone forever, too. You've seen and done things most people haven't. Write it down, maybe send it to Logger's World or something. That way the information doesn't just fade away. I'll shut the hell up now.



I agree that's a good idea, but what really is missing is there isn't many of the younger generation that's willing to learn, or doesen't know everything working in the logging industry to pass knowledge down to. Reading information is enlightening, and educational but holds no candle to using it in the real world, and from what I see that's where alot is lacking


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## slowp (Mar 11, 2010)

There was a crew of younguns last year. They are good and they are catching on quickly. A couple are the sons of guys who work for the same outfit. One was not even legal drinking age. They looked like little boys to me.  They moved the wood and had good attitudes. 

I have a few loose leaf volumes on the physics of logging. Like it does much good. One written by a non-professor would be a good thing. 

Remember. We didn't take many photos of the big stuff being logged because it was so common. I wish I had.


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## 2dogs (Mar 11, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> A skyline that is not on a live drum. It's up and it stays up all the time.
> Several ways to do that. The most common on spar trees was to spike it on a stump. You would run it through a jack on the tree and tighten it aorund the stump and nail it. Probably when you see an old picture of a North Bend system this is the way it was. The other way is to have a machine with a drum with dogs on it. Pull it up tight and dog it. Those old Tylers and the skidders too (Talking old time steam machines here, donkeys not these rubber tired things everyone thinks of as skidders now)were like that. I worked on a Kohler thinner that had a similar set up. The Tylers and skidders though had a heel tackle set up so they had a small line with I think 4 blocks purchse to tighten and hold the skyline. The other way is to have a seperate machine for the skyline.
> In a way you could say any of the skyline machines with a motorized carriage now are essentially using a stationary skyline. They can drop it easily but most of the time it stays up.



Thanks! A friend of mine worked on his type of setup in Switzerland. The skyline was laid by hand and tightened at the stump by a Tirfor winche and held in place by clamps. The system used several blocks and intermediate supports. The yarder was a motorised drum on log skids that pulled the carriage (mainline) and the haulback. I have seen pics of the operation.


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## Humptulips (Mar 11, 2010)

oregoncutter said:


> I agree that's a good idea, but what really is missing is there isn't many of the younger generation that's willing to learn, or doesen't know everything working in the logging industry to pass knowledge down to. Reading information is enlightening, and educational but holds no candle to using it in the real world, and from what I see that's where alot is lacking



I've got some stuff bouncing arouind in my head but a lot of it really has no practical application today. I mean think about it, why would a young guy learn how to put up a stationary sky line for a North bend system? You'll probably never see that again except in old pictures.
A lot of this stuff I learned by doing and working with the preceding generation of loggers. No one will ever need to know some of the skills these guys had mastered so the knowledge will die. Simple fact.
My Dad is still alive and he tells me about logging back in the railroad logging days with steam. It's interesting to me but no application today so I'll never really learn it. You can't without actually doing it.


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## hammerlogging (Mar 11, 2010)

Mr. Hump, are you who posted once a title to a book with some 1500 ways to rig a yarder? Would you post that again?

And, would you remind me how to talkie toot "I need more coffee, and back on the haulback a little then go ahead on the skid line a hair then raise the skyline then ahead on the mainline and no, I don't need sugar or cream but the chokermen need a little more chew" 

Yes, we need more people who give a #### about being a logger, and then they need to come work with me. Fortunately, we do have a few extraordinary people with a wealth of knowledge, maybe not totally old school, but useful.

One built a GOOD radio controlled choker, then sold the patent, and the purchaser shelved it so it wouldn't compete with their bell chokers.


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## slowp (Mar 11, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> And, would you remind me how to talkie toot "I need more coffee, and back on the haulback a little then go ahead on the skid line a hair then raise the skyline then ahead on the mainline and no, I don't need sugar or cream but the chokermen need a little more chew"



Wow. Sounds like you'd be running the batteries down pretty quick!


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## Humptulips (Mar 11, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> Mr. Hump, are you who posted once a title to a book with some 1500 ways to rig a yarder? Would you post that again?
> 
> And, would you remind me how to talkie toot "I need more coffee, and back on the haulback a little then go ahead on the skid line a hair then raise the skyline then ahead on the mainline and no, I don't need sugar or cream but the chokermen need a little more chew"
> 
> ...



Please don't call me Mr. I hate that. Bruce is OK though.

Sorry, not I. I'd like to see it too though.

If there was a bunch of whistles to do all that I'm sure the engineer would shoot you as soon as he got out of the audiologists office.


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## hammerlogging (Mar 11, 2010)

I bet you it was that Bushler fellow from SE OR. Maybe Burv can get him to get on here and post it, I dont at the moment have the patience to search out his posts.


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## Gologit (Mar 12, 2010)

slowp said:


> Remember. We didn't take many photos of the big stuff being logged because it was so common. I wish I had.



I agree. I tried toting a camera in the woods but they always wound up getting busted or drowned. We didn't think we were doing anything special because everybody we knew was doing the same thing and it's all we'd ever done. We never thought that we'd be doing anything else than cutting old growth redwood. Too bad we didn't have digital cameras in those days.

Tarzantree, Burvol, Slowp, keep taking those pictures.


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## Burvol (Mar 12, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> I bet you it was that Bushler fellow from SE OR. Maybe Burv can get him to get on here and post it, I dont at the moment have the patience to search out his posts.



Old Paul, he was a cool guy. Really smart and really funny. He ran the show on a big Washington interlock. Now he shovel logs highlead ground. Bushler is a good dude. I cut for him two years ago, it was a fun trip.


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## hoechucker (Mar 14, 2010)

when i first started setting chokers we were in bunch of great big second growth and some residual oldgrowth.in between turns i packed the fallers jugs,wedges,jacks and what not.really sad i didn't have the smarts to pack a camera because i knew i was doing something that was out of the ordinary.i pack a camera everyday now and take pictures of nice logs,the rigging crews,fallers,and the shovels,but it seems like the only thing that turns out is the loads leaving the landings(and who realy wants to look at truck drivers).


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