# Falling wedges. What's good, what's not, and why?



## KiwiBro

Got some big boys (by my standards) to drop and now's as good a time as any to learn what makes for a great felling wedge and what sizes to get.

I've a few small wedges and a bunch of holding wedges that I must admit to driving in but they don't last long doing that.

What do you use and why? I'm inclined to want to try a few that I can seriously drive in without them mushrooming beyond recognition. there are metal headed wedges. Any good for this, or should I just try and find a few old-school metal wedges and bring out the sledgehammer?

thanks in advance for any help.


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## imagineero

I havent tried the metal headed wedges for a few years but I've heard they've improved.

I use stihl plastics, the ones with the teeth on one side. They do seem to stay in a bit better, but depends on what you're cutting. I've tried a few brands of the plastics, and some are very brittle. The stihl ones seem ok, and I get a good price on them at my local. I generally only carry a few 8's, but I don't do many big trees. You might want to go 10's or 12's. You can only stack them 2 high if you get the toothed wedges, one set facing up and the other set facing down.

On bigger trees you might want 4 or 6 wedges. I use a 2lb dead blow hammer to drive mine rather than the back of an axe. It does a lot less damage to the wedges and I like the way it doesnt bounce. I don't carry an axe. If it's too hard to drive a wedge, I just put another one in, and another.... until it gets easier, then hit them in sequence. 

Shaun


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## hammerlogging

K&H 12". Use multiple if hard to drive.


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## nw axe man

Well, Kiwi, now you're in for the hard part of falling.
As far as wedges go Stihl wedges are as good as any. They seems to have the right mixture of hardness and toughness. Some wedges are too soft and when in a hard wedging situation tend to heat up and are very easy to take chunks out of. If you hit a Stihl wedge and aren't square on the head you can break them, especially if it's real cold out.
I use 12" wedges exclusively. If you take a look at the pics I've sent you can see that not all of my wedges are a full 12". The ones that are "used" a little I tend to use the most. In other words, the shortest wedge is the wedge that I'll put in the tree first. It's generally a little thicker as I've tended over the years to hit it with the chains taking off the fine edge. Now since it's shorter I use it first as it won't have that tendency to get hit by the chain as it's already thicker and makes contact with the wood sooner thereby giving me almost immediate lifting capacity. If I were to use the shorter smaller wedges they would sink in quicker and further and not give me that immediate lift. You have to take care of your wedges just like every other tool you use in the woods. As you can see by my pics my wedges are in good shape, even the shorter ones. I use a horseshoe rasp to make sure the recieving end of the wedge is square so I have a solid surface to hit. The 12" wedge also offers a larger target to hit with an axe.
Where you place your wedges in the tree is also going to make a big difference on how your job turns out. It can make the difference of losing a little bit of water to sweating a gallon. When your going to have to wedge a tree over it's lean, always place the wedges directly behind the undercut. This shocks the tree directly over the undercut. If you place them on one side or the other you're wedging against the hinge wood. When placing your wedges and have to use two of them, place them together. I see men place their wedges 12-18" apart in the backcut. This does no good and makes them have to move every time they're hitting the wedges. If you place them together your using more surface area and in the case of a heavy backleaner they don't have the tendency to cut into the wood as much. This also allows the wedger to stand in one spot and alternate one wedge and then the other. This is typically know as "walking" the tree over. Hit one wedge, give it a second for the top to move forward, and then hit the other wedge. If you wedge too fast your wedging against yourself by hitting the wedge when the top of the tree is moving back from the hitting of the first wedge.
I'll use my shorter wedges first to "set" the tree to keep it from sitting back on the stump. This allows me to use my "good" wedges for the tougher wedging later on. Look at the pics and you can see what I mean by shorter wedges.
If you use the smaller wedges they have a tendency on larger trees that have a heavy backlean to cut into the tree, thereby losing effectiveness. This is especially true on softwoods. The 12" wedges also have more lifting surface as far as width.
One of the most important items that you need to keep on hand is a decent falling axe. I've enclosed a few pics of my favorite axes accumulated over the years. At this point I use nothing less than a 5 lb axe and am very picky about the head. In the pics you'll notice the different heads. The one thing that each of these heads has in common is the striking surface. You'll notice that each one of them has a nice, square head with no sharp corners at all. Sharp corners are the nemesis of good wedges. You'll also notice that my axe handles are 36". You can use shorter handles and smaller heads but if you're in a real wedging situation that needs your attention the heavier head with longer handle properly used will save you a lot of sweat.
Well, as you might have guessed I could go on and on with this thread. You'll get a lot of good advice from some very good fallers on this site. Keep in mind I'm from SW Washington state in the Pacific NW. I'm used to falling softwood with the exception of maple and alder so pay attention to the type of wood you're cutting. This will make a difference in your wedging also. Hope this helps a bit.
I guess the pic of the 36" handles didn't upload. Too much info.


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## KiwiBro

*Thank you.*

Thanks very much for the advice.
It's people like you guys that make this website so great.

12" wedges it shall be then. I've a good axe but never really needed it to muscle a leaner over. Always used snatch blocks and rope, pulling them over, using my little tomahawk axe to drive in smaller wedges for a little more leverage and insurance.

The bigger axe will need a bit of practice with sacrificial wedges, getting my eye in before I introduce the good wedges to the big axe head. I'll do this on a few predictable small trees before attempting the bigger ones.

Thanks again guys. It really is wonderful for us newbies to have such wise heads willing to share their experience.


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## bitzer

Great info NW! I like the Stihl wedges myself and putting them next to my K&Hs I'm 95% positive they are made in the same place. Same casting marks and everything. 

Yep the longer the wedge the slighter the taper (unless triple taper), which makes for smoother drive-abilty. You need an axe when doubling up so you can hit one at a time. In bigger wood distribute evenly until you can stack. Stacking more that 2 is not a great idea. You need more power at that point. Trim the bark off so you can pound farther in if you need too. Don't pound too close to the hinge or put excessive pressure on it. Backcut placement/drift can also give you extra work. Temperature (frozen-hot) and the type of wood can all play factors in how the wood moves and lifts. Clean up your wedges when you've beaten them hard so they drive staright and you can stack again. I've run mine on a belt sander, bench grinder, and cut them square with a bandsaw/cut-off saw/miter saw... Like NW said a guy could probably go on and on.


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## dave k

I started off with Stihl / Oregon plastic wedges then started some years ago using Stihl alloy wedges and have always used Stihl's Hilift alloy wedges. Had a standard alloy wedge a little to close to the chain and knocked a cutter off a brand new chain, so have now started back with Oregon / Stihl plastics again ! Sandvick used to do a very nice wedge, as NW says , that balance of hardness but ok to drive in without falling apart.


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## 2dogs

I have K&H, a few Hardheads but mostly Double Taper/Madsen's. The hardhead wedges I don't care for, driving them hurts my elbows. I use mostly 10" and 12" lengths but I have all sizes. I also have two narrow 10" wedges that drive where others won't. A 5lb axe works best but sometimes I can only use 3lb/20" axe. 

Like John said set the wedges directly behind the center of the hinge and time your axe blows properly. As always, keep looking up!


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## Joe46

Can't add anything. I used K&H for the most part, and no my don't look as good as NW Axe Man. I have one that started out about 15"-16" long and was cut down to 12". It was thicker than the K&H's. It helped to tip those "sky bound" 2nd growth cedars I was always running into:msp_rolleyes:


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## 2dogs

Always work with the hinge, never try to fight it. Trim up the hinge if needed but don't try to force the tree to fall where it doesn't to fall. Falling looks like an exercise in brute strngth but in reality it is a series of very fine moves and finesse applied in an environment of screaming saws, widow makers, and rotten trees. Even heavy pounding is done with care.


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## bitzer

2dogs said:


> Always work with the hinge, never try to fight it. Trim up the hinge if needed but don't try to force the tree to fall where it doesn't to fall. Falling looks like an exercise in brute strngth but in reality it is a series of very fine moves and finesse applied in an environment of screaming saws, widow makers, and rotten trees. Even heavy pounding is done with care.


 
Well Said! Hows the cold coming along? 

Just ran through your other thread, hows the flu coming along? That sucks man!


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

I carry three hard head wedges. The saw box has a lot of old cut down wedges for jacking trees over. Mostly use Stihl wedges. I find having a dozen wedges in three lengths will do most jobs. The three sizes I use are 6" , 10" ,12" . Wedges get chewed up they get trimmed up and go back to work. I find regular maintenance makes wedges last longer and they are less likely to fail at the wrong time.


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## paccity

words of wisdom.


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## 056 kid

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> I carry three hard head wedges. The saw box has a lot of old cut down wedges for jacking trees over. Mostly use Stihl wedges. I find having a dozen wedges in three lengths will do most jobs. The three sizes I use are 6" , 10" ,12" . Wedges get chewed up they get trimmed up and go back to work. I find regular maintenance makes wedges last longer and they are less likely to fail at the wrong time.


 
& if poster # 4 had said he threw them out as soon as they got a little ratty, I bet you would have said that you throw them out too LMAO


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## 2dogs

056 kid said:


> & if poster # 4 had said he threw them out as soon as they got a little ratty, I bet you would have said that you throw them out too LMAO


 
r u mocking me? r u mocking me? r u mocking me?


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## hammerlogging

I have to correct myself, I now carry 3 12" k&h, one of them in good shape, and 1 7", used similarly as the blunt 12"ers but with additional and alternative advantage uses as well. It surprised me, but I like having it on me. Man it'll spit out on you though.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

The only time wedges get discard is when they are shorter then 3" long. I use the wedges till they become unsafe. The 12" wedge are rarely used, mostly for heavy trees for extra lift. Had a few of my hard heads get chewed up by my Dad because he is not use to power of Stihl MS460:hmm3grin2orange: You can never have to many wedges.


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## lfnh

2dogs said:


> r u mocking me? r u mocking me? r u mocking me?


 


HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> I carry three hard head wedges. The saw box has a lot of old cut down wedges for jacking trees over. Mostly use Stihl wedges. I find having a dozen wedges in three lengths will do most jobs. The three sizes I use are 6" , 10" ,12" . Wedges get chewed up they get trimmed up and go back to work. I find regular maintenance makes wedges last longer and they are less likely to fail at the wrong time.


 
Not a spring chicken, but not ready for a pine box, but packing around that many makes me tired just reading the words. :msp_confused:

What's your packing rig look like ?


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## Gologit

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The only time wedges get discard is when they are shorter then 3" long. I use the wedges till they become unsafe. The 12" wedge are rarely used, mostly for heavy trees for extra lift. Had a few of my hard heads get chewed up by my Dad because he is not use to power of Stihl MS460:hmm3grin2orange: You can never have to many wedges.


 
:monkey:


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## bitzer

Yeah I carry a 7"er too, plus 2 10"s and a 12". That little guy sure can lift in the right situations. These boys got roughed up on the last job I was on. 







View attachment 188642



On toothed wedges- I've only ever used the oregon ones and they hold fast in frozen wood, but forget about stacking them. They will not drive straight or at least I never could get them too. Also sometimes a little sawdust on smooth wedges will help them hold better when stacking.


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## mitch95100

The hardheads work good for me


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

lfnh said:


> Not a spring chicken, but not ready for a pine box, but packing around that many makes me tired just reading the words. :msp_confused:
> 
> What's your packing rig look like ?


 It is a box in the tool box of my work truck. I grab what i figure I need and put them in my back pants pocket. There is times I am to far from the truck and I put a few extra wedges in a wedge pouch. The wedge pouch is getting kinda wore out, will have to make a new one.


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## 056 kid

What are you talking about? Guys where you live don't use wedge pouches, the wedges fall out to easy making it difficult for a guy to make enough money.
:msp_tongue:
Don't you know anything??


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Wedges*

One reason I carry extras is if I run into some one who needs a wedge. I have extra wedges for doing home renovation work. I hardly ever need more the 3 6" wedges and 2 10" wedges to drop the trees in my area. Had one green swollen butt last year that took eight 10" wedges to tip it overWished I had put a jack in, my boss told me not to do it :msp_mad: He was sorry he told me no jack, after 20 minutes of him having to pound on the wedges to tip the tree :hmm3grin2orange:


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## 2dogs

bitzer said:


> Yeah I carry a 7"er too, plus 2 10"s and a 12". That little guy sure can lift in the right situations. These boys got roughed up on the last job I was on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 188642
> 
> 
> 
> On toothed wedges- I've only ever used the oregon ones and they hold fast in frozen wood, but forget about stacking them. They will not drive straight or at least I never could get them too. Also sometimes a little sawdust on smooth wedges will help them hold better when stacking.


 
Yep sawdust comes in handy at times. I almost always add sawdust when I stack wedges.


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## dave k

HBRN for a guy that had to stop full time felling because of bad white finger only to become an EMT I'm astounded that you now have a boss to fell for !! Being a waffler is only going to work if you keep track of your untruths !


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

dave k said:


> HBRN for a guy that had to stop full time felling because of bad white finger only to become an EMT I'm astounded that you now have a boss to fell for !! Being a waffler is only going to work if you keep track of your untruths !


 My boss is my Dad, he needs some one with the right tools and knowledge to be around for the bigger trees. I was medic when I was still doing timber work, my neck injury is what stoped both of those jobs. My Dad can handle the small trees, but refuses to risk his life with any tree bigger then 28" DBH. I think your the waffler for twisting the truth. I am only doing limited timber falling, mostly to help my Dad and a couple local ranchers.


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## nw axe man

One of the best things to use to keep wedges from backing out is to throw in a little mineral soil. Not the duff from the forest floor but good, gritty dirt. Then, if you stack them at an angle they hardly ever back out, even in frozen wood. If you stack them at an angle they seem to lift easier and you don't have to swing the axe as hard to get them to lift. The big thing is to get the lower wedge in for a solid plate and the top wedge directly above to that the shock is striking directly up the tree and down through the stump. An angled backcut makes for some hard wedging. The forces should be directly up the tree and down to the stump.
Someone had mentioned they don't throw away wedges till they're 3" long. Tried that once. It backed out of the cut just as hard as I tried to drive it in. Hit me right alongside the nose and dropped me like I'd been pollaxed. I was trying to cut on the cheap. I found out it was a little more expensive than I thought. When those wedges get cut down on the "sharp" end they either need to be rasped or taken down by some means or thrown away.


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## stihl 440

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> My boss is my Dad, he needs some one with the right tools and knowledge to be around for the bigger trees. I was medic when I was still doing timber work, my neck injury is what stoped both of those jobs. My Dad can handle the small trees, but refuses to risk his life with any tree bigger then 28" DBH. I think your the waffler for twisting the truth. I am only doing limited timber falling, mostly to help my Dad and a couple local ranchers.


 
:monkey:.....something doesnt seem right here... So...let me get this straight if i can...anyway....you are a kid helping his dad fall a couple trees and you already have whitefinger?...you fall a couple trees and use a slanted backcut and your a pro...hmmm And your dad does home remodeling.....what part of that is the logging part? And i still havent seen anything that tells you have even set foot on a logging operation......you cant fool me boy...ill see right through you. Your better off just to tell the truth....if there is any......


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## Joe46

opcorn:


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## stihl 440

nw axe man said:


> One of the best things to use to keep wedges from backing out is to throw in a little mineral soil. Not the duff from the forest floor but good, gritty dirt. Then, if you stack them at an angle they hardly ever back out, even in frozen wood. If you stack them at an angle they seem to lift easier and you don't have to swing the axe as hard to get them to lift. The big thing is to get the lower wedge in for a solid plate and the top wedge directly above to that the shock is striking directly up the tree and down through the stump. An angled backcut makes for some hard wedging. The forces should be directly up the tree and down to the stump.
> Someone had mentioned they don't throw away wedges till they're 3" long. Tried that once. It backed out of the cut just as hard as I tried to drive it in. Hit me right alongside the nose and dropped me like I'd been pollaxed. I was trying to cut on the cheap. I found out it was a little more expensive than I thought. When those wedges get cut down on the "sharp" end they either need to be rasped or taken down by some means or thrown away.


 
Yup....yea or you hit them and they go out through the woods like they where shot out of a 12ga....let them hit you in the shins a couple times...you'll learn....they will drop you like right now...i dont care how big you are. If they get ripped up, get new ones..they are cheap enough....and your day goes soo much easier with good wedges.


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## stihl 440

Gologit said:


> :monkey:


 
I thaught the same thing.....


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

stihl 440 said:


> :monkey:.....something doesnt seem right here... So...let me get this straight if i can...anyway....you are a kid helping his dad fall a couple trees and you already have whitefinger?...you fall a couple trees and use a slanted backcut and your a pro...hmmm And your dad does home remodeling.....what part of that is the logging part? And i still havent seen anything that tells you have even set foot on a logging operation......you cant fool me boy...ill see right through you. Your better off just to tell the truth....if there is any......


 
You need to learn to read the post before jumping on someome:msp_thumbup: I got white knuckle in my teens running wore out garbage picked saws with little to no AV system. I do home remodeling to make ends meet. And you do not know the conditions I was faced with to be force to use a sloping back cut, I did not want to have to pay the power company to repair main lines for one. My Dad was forced to hire me for saw work after my BIL cut his foot open, the medical bill was $4000 bucks:msp_mad: Never try to fall a large tree with out wedges, you will risk a tree going wrong.


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## stihl 440

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> You need to learn to read the post before jumping on someome:msp_thumbup: I got white knuckle in my teens running wore out garbage picked saws with little to no AV system. I do home remodeling to make ends meet. And you do not know the conditions I was faced with to be force to use a sloping back cut, I did not want to have to pay the power company to repair main lines for one. My Dad was forced to hire me for saw work after my BIL cut his foot open, the medical bill was $4000 bucks:msp_mad: Never try to fall a large tree with out wedges, you will risk a tree going wrong.


 
I dont know how many monsters i have cut without even so much as needing a wedge in my pocket....its all about if you know how to cut.......oh wait i forgot....you said we only cut peckerpoles out here....nevermind then....keep beating um......:msp_rolleyes::monkey:


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Hardwoods are a different animal to fall then soft woods:msp_thumbsup:


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## OregonSawyer

Never used a wedge in this tree....


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## stihl 440

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Hardwoods are a different animal to fall then soft woods:msp_thumbsup:


 
I agree and i fall both....but how do you know this?.....oh...ur concrete hard fir..nevermind


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

stihl 440 said:


> I agree and i fall both....but how do you know this?.....oh...ur concrete hard fir..nevermind


 
The reason I know is I worked in an area with a lot of big hardwoods, We had several units silver maple that were a nightmare to fall, we are talking 088 with 60" bar big


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## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The reason I know is I worked in an area with a lot of big hardwoods, We had several units silver maple that were a nightmare to fall, we are talking 088 with 60" bar big


 
tough on the hands.

how many did you put down ina day ?


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Most days 5 were felled. The unit was in the bottom of steep draw, so getting to the job was a tough hike down to the job site. I had to cut my own way in and run the dozer to build a road to the landing site.


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## outdoorlivin247

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The reason I know is I worked in an area with a lot of big hardwoods, We had several units silver maple that were a nightmare to fall, we are talking 088 with 60" bar big


 
What's a silver maple?...:msp_rolleyes:


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## 056 kid

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The reason I know is I worked in an area with a lot of big hardwoods, We had several units silver maple that were a nightmare to fall, we are talking 088 with 60" bar big


 
I didn't know there where silver maples in Oregon?


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Buy affordable Silver Maple trees at arborday.org

The trees were planted by a farmer in 1901 and the grandkids of the farmer wanted to have the area cleared for a pond:mad2:,there was 60 acres of nice trees. Kinda sad to see them old trees be cut, the trees were over 90 years old. This job was a job I will always have bitter taste in my mouth, told the stupid kids we could leave some and shape the pond to fit, nope they said fell them and burn them, I did sell the better mill grade wood to a local mill, the kids were none the wiser, they were cheap sob,s any way,the trees were the extra money they shorted the company.


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## Gologit

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Buy affordable Silver Maple trees at arborday.org
> 
> The trees were planted by a farmer in 1901 and the grandkids of the farmer wanted to have the area cleared for a pond:mad2:,there was 60 acres of nice trees. Kinda sad to see them old trees be cut, the trees were over 90 years old. This job was a job I will always have bitter taste in my mouth, told the stupid kids we could leave some and shape the pond to fit, nope they said fell them and burn them, I did sell the better mill grade wood to a local mill, the kids were none the wiser, they were cheap sob,s any way,the trees were the extra money they shorted the company.


 
So you're a thief, as well as being a fraud and a liar? You are no logger, and that is a plain fact.


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## slowp

Back on topic, I have one of those tiny orange maybe 4 inches long wedges. I used one to open a window that was swollen shut. 

Last week, I got out a suitcase to pack for my trip to the coast. I saw that wedge in it. I started carrying one with me when going to training. I figured I might need to pry something open in an emergency. So, there it is.


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## nw axe man

You know, we talk about axes and wedges and what works and what doesn't. One of the things that isn't talked about too much is how to hang an axe so that it maximizes your wedging abilities. It's been my experience that most people aren't too familiar with how to properly hang an axe handle. In my travels it looks as if most guys just put the head on the handle without seeing how it's hung. The driving surface of the axe needs to be parallel to the length of the handle. If it's hung too far forward or backward it will result in lots of damaged wedges as the surface of the axe won't stike the head of the wedge square. As the head of the axe is driven on the axe handle the position of the head relative to the handle can be maneuvered by rasping the axe handle so that it is sitting square on the handle. Takes a little time but results in an axe handle that you can be consistant with while wedging.


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## paccity

i was taught that you need to get you head square. in referance to that. your right it makes a diff.


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## jerrycmorrow

very limited use of felling wedges. been using an old axe head and a splitting wedge so really interested in this thread. other than the obvious - ruining a blade - is there any advantage to using the felling wedges over the axe head and splitting wedge? any advantage of double taper over single taper? what is triple taper? any major advantage of hard-head over just plastic? seems like i've seen varying thicknesses on the butt height; how thick do yall like the butt to be? thanks, jerry


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## nw axe man

jerrycmorrow said:


> very limited use of felling wedges. been using an old axe head and a splitting wedge so really interested in this thread. other than the obvious - ruining a blade - is there any advantage to using the felling wedges over the axe head and splitting wedge? any advantage of double taper over single taper? what is triple taper? any major advantage of hard-head over just plastic? seems like i've seen varying thicknesses on the butt height; how thick do yall like the butt to be? thanks, jerry


 If you're doing any directional falling at all you need to keep at least a few wedges handy. One of the most obvious advantages of using plastic is the weight. I'm assuming that you're using a 6 lb or more splitting wedge plus the axe. The weight savings alone are worth it. Not to mention wedges are designed to be used to shock trees over. Splitting wedges and axes are not designed for this use. Not sure if you're using the axe or the splitting wedge for the wedge but either way, it just makes your job a lot harder. As far as an advantage of single taper to double taper, I prefer the single taper. It's been my experience in most softwoods that the double taper wedges don't buy you much when you have serious wedging to do. Single taper wedges used properly will lift an incredible leaner. Again, it all has to do with thinking about how you're going to have to use them and where you place them in the tree. Never heard of a triple taper. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I've never run across one.
I've used the hard head wedges in training when those were the wedges that were brought to the session. They didn't seem to work too badly. 
When talking about the butt of the wedges you're going to get different thicknesses with each length. The 12" wedges are going to be the thickest at the butt. If you have any trees with diameter at all these are going to be the wedges to use. For smaller diameter trees the shorter wedges will work. I have a few but they are not part of my system that I use. I also have a few double tapers but will only use them if I have to double up using the thinner part of the wedge for a plate. Double taper seem to be a little harder than the Stihl/Madsens single taper wedges. If used when you need to stack, the combination of the harder double taper and the bit softer Stihl/Madsens works well and see to create a friction that holds them into the cut better. You are right about the chain damage using the splitting wedge and axe. That could be brutal. I remember seeing a chain that my father had that had hit a steel falling wedge. That was when they had two steel plates that the steel wedge was driven between. It's called "How to rat crap a chain in a hurry."


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## nw axe man

paccity said:


> i was taught that you need to get you head square. in referance to that. your right it makes a diff.


 It's just like everything else in all occupations. The little things make all the difference in how your day goes. Just one of them going sideways can throw you off balance the rest of the day.


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## plasticweld

I never thought that I would be able to add to 4 pages of what kind of wedges do you use. I guess I have taken for granted what I was shown years ago and figured everybody did it the way I do
I carry three wedges on my belt in a pouch that holds my 3 pound axe with a 16 inch or so handle the other way I have done it is with a two wedge pouch and a hammer holder that goes on a belt basically cut off from the rivets and riveted back on to the two wedge pouch this is the most common unless I am in really big wood. I do like KH wedges but will use just about any type from 8 to 10 inches 

What I did not see mentioned was anyone else cutting wedges out of dead hardwood as you work. I look for any dead Hornbeam or Iron wood or dead white or red oak that is good and dry and take my chainsaw and make the wedges as needed when working, I always use a combination of plastic and wood wedges because the wooden ones do not bounce out and if you are getting close with the saw it does not hurt the saw to saw into it nor destroy any thing of value. I have been in places where I had large trees and there wa lot of wedges is what I needed and I would find a dead piece of wood laying off the ground and make the wedges as needed any size that seemed to fit the need. Small wood where I knew there was a chance I would hit the wedge; large wood where I needed a combination of many wedges to get the job done. Either way I could tackle the job with carrying a minimum of tools because I could make what I needed as I went, I thought everyone did this..

As long as we are on the topic of tipping over trees the other method used is what is called a Sampson or at least this is what it was called back in Maine more than 30 years ago. What you do is take your saw and as high as you can reach notch out a spot in the tree a couple inches so the it has a squared off cut at the top. I then look for a long pole that I can make about 8 to ten feet long about 3 to 4 inches in diameter. I then look for a pole that I can cut 6 to 7 feet long and then notch the pole about a foot from the bottom to hold the long pole from slipping off of the shorter one. What I am doing is using the short pole as a lever to lift the long pole into the cut so I can tip the tree over the pole when it is about 7 feet long lets me get under it and push with my legs lifting a lot In smaller wood where a wedge does not work well this works great. If you have only one saw and have no way to cut your self out if a tree leans back on you and you can not get a wedge in then the best thing to do is make one of these first thing in the morning and the worse you will do is have to walk back and find it but it will save you time and let you get your saw out. If there is any interest I will bring my camera to the woods next time and take a couple of photos..Bob


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Gologit said:


> So you're a thief, as well as being a fraud and a liar? You are no logger, and that is a plain fact.


 I am not a thief the owner the company told me what do. He was told to burn the trees, he told me to salvage the good logs to help recoup the money they failed to pay us. I take being called a liar as fighting words so let us not go down that road:mad2:


----------



## 056 kid

I bet he'd straighten you out like a piece of wire. . .


----------



## lfnh

Pardon the minor derail.

Expect some have seen these shoulder collars before.
Just a simple piece of backstrap, saddle stitched.
Help a little to keep the handle shoulder from getting chipped and beat up.

Another way is to use 14-18" of raw hide strap wrapped on wet and tight.
When it dries it will be harder and tougher. No pic of this as old Kodak
power supply went to lunch.







View attachment 188853


----------



## indiansprings

Great thread, lot of good info in it. Until a couple of years ago I was just using a regular ole steel splitting wedge, needless to say I used it sparingly. I've since bought several of the Stihl wedges in 8 and 12" lengths and use them often. No need to worry about chain damage, I usually drive them with a 28" handled axe.

PNWHBRN, dude, don't you ever get tired? One thread your a professional gypo faller, the next an EMT, the next a carpenter. It is obvious to anyone that has been in the woods for any length of time that you obviously don't have a clue. I can't see how you post so much with white finger, how do the guys who have been running saws 20-30 years still do it. Please stop the trolling, just resort to reading and learning.
You own pnw guys are getting on you just as hard as anyone else, how can so many be wrong?


----------



## Sport Faller

lfnh said:


> Pardon the minor derail.
> 
> Expect some have seen these shoulder collars before.
> Just a simple piece of backstrap, saddle stitched.
> Help a little to keep the handle shoulder from getting chipped and beat up.
> 
> Another way is to use 14-18" of raw hide strap wrapped on wet and tight.
> When it dries it will be harder and tougher. No pic of this as old Kodak
> power supply went to lunch.
> 
> View attachment 188853


 
that's pretty a fancy cat handle wrap, my axe and maul are sporting duct tape grey :msp_biggrin:

Also, has anyone used the Black Bear rifled wedges from Bailey's, looks like a neat idea for stacking


----------



## nw axe man

plasticweld said:


> I never thought that I would be able to add to 4 pages of what kind of wedges do you use. I guess I have taken for granted what I was shown years ago and figured everybody did it the way I do
> I carry three wedges on my belt in a pouch that holds my 3 pound axe with a 16 inch or so handle the other way I have done it is with a two wedge pouch and a hammer holder that goes on a belt basically cut off from the rivets and riveted back on to the two wedge pouch this is the most common unless I am in really big wood. I do like KH wedges but will use just about any type from 8 to 10 inches
> 
> What I did not see mentioned was anyone else cutting wedges out of dead hardwood as you work. I look for any dead Hornbeam or Iron wood or dead white or red oak that is good and dry and take my chainsaw and make the wedges as needed when working, I always use a combination of plastic and wood wedges because the wooden ones do not bounce out and if you are getting close with the saw it does not hurt the saw to saw into it nor destroy any thing of value. I have been in places where I had large trees and there wa lot of wedges is what I needed and I would find a dead piece of wood laying off the ground and make the wedges as needed any size that seemed to fit the need. Small wood where I knew there was a chance I would hit the wedge; large wood where I needed a combination of many wedges to get the job done. Either way I could tackle the job with carrying a minimum of tools because I could make what I needed as I went, I thought everyone did this..
> 
> As long as we are on the topic of tipping over trees the other method used is what is called a Sampson or at least this is what it was called back in Maine more than 30 years ago. What you do is take your saw and as high as you can reach notch out a spot in the tree a couple inches so the it has a squared off cut at the top. I then look for a long pole that I can make about 8 to ten feet long about 3 to 4 inches in diameter. I then look for a pole that I can cut 6 to 7 feet long and then notch the pole about a foot from the bottom to hold the long pole from slipping off of the shorter one. What I am doing is using the short pole as a lever to lift the long pole into the cut so I can tip the tree over the pole when it is about 7 feet long lets me get under it and push with my legs lifting a lot In smaller wood where a wedge does not work well this works great. If you have only one saw and have no way to cut your self out if a tree leans back on you and you can not get a wedge in then the best thing to do is make one of these first thing in the morning and the worse you will do is have to walk back and find it but it will save you time and let you get your saw out. If there is any interest I will bring my camera to the woods next time and take a couple of photos..Bob


 Please do take some pics of this Sampson. I have a picture of it in my head but would like to see it in action.
The wooden wedges you speak of don't work too well out here. The US Forest Service used to keep them around till they finally realized that they just don't work too well out here where the trees are so tall. The ones they used just fell apart in a little bit. They did make great door stoppers, though. The plastic ones seem to hold up the best and are the most common. There's still a few guys that use the aluminum wedges but not too many. Most grind out a handle and use them for pounding a wedge or at least getting it started.


----------



## nw axe man

lfnh said:


> Pardon the minor derail.
> 
> Expect some have seen these shoulder collars before.
> Just a simple piece of backstrap, saddle stitched.
> Help a little to keep the handle shoulder from getting chipped and beat up.
> 
> Another way is to use 14-18" of raw hide strap wrapped on wet and tight.
> When it dries it will be harder and tougher. No pic of this as old Kodak
> power supply went to lunch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 188853


 Not to be pushy, Ifnh, but I'd take those edges on your axe and give them a little grind. I do like the collar, though. Seems like it would prolong the handle when the hand to head to wedge doesn't seem to match up like it sometimes does.


----------



## jerrycmorrow

plasticweld said:


> ...As long as we are on the topic of tipping over trees the other method used is what is called a Sampson or at least this is what it was called back in Maine more than 30 years ago. What you do is take your saw and as high as you can reach notch out a spot in the tree a couple inches so the it has a squared off cut at the top. I then look for a long pole that I can make about 8 to ten feet long about 3 to 4 inches in diameter. I then look for a pole that I can cut 6 to 7 feet long and then notch the pole about a foot from the bottom to hold the long pole from slipping off of the shorter one. What I am doing is using the short pole as a lever to lift the long pole into the cut so I can tip the tree over the pole when it is about 7 feet long lets me get under it and push with my legs lifting a lot In smaller wood where a wedge does not work well this works great. If you have only one saw and have no way to cut your self out if a tree leans back on you and you can not get a wedge in then the best thing to do is make one of these first thing in the morning and the worse you will do is have to walk back and find it but it will save you time and let you get your saw out. If there is any interest I will bring my camera to the woods next time and take a couple of photos..Bob


 
sounds like a human tree jack. pix would be great. video would be better.


----------



## jerrycmorrow

bigskyjake said:


> that's pretty a fancy cat handle wrap, my axe and maul are sporting duct tape grey :msp_biggrin:


 
mine too


----------



## dave k

Good posts coming along on this thread, I see you are hovering around HBRN and I note it took almost two hours to come up with the waffle in reply to Gologit's correct observation. Perhaps you should only keep one thread at a time to play with ?

Back on topic, NW I see what you mean about the axe head and would not have thought about it, we over here tend to use a sledge or in my case a splitting maul made to also drive wedges so has a straight handle.


----------



## lfnh

nw axe man said:


> Not to be pushy, Ifnh, but I'd take those edges on your axe and give them a little grind. I do like the collar, though. Seems like it would prolong the handle when the hand to head to wedge doesn't seem to match up like it sometimes does.


 
Thanks! Bad angle on the pic. The radius is there, just hiding - less than yours though.
Used to be a lot of new axes came with the radius already ground.
Now just happy to find the rare straight grained handle.

btw, interesting thread and info from all the posters.


----------



## T_F_E

lfnh said:


> Pardon the minor derail.
> 
> Expect some have seen these shoulder collars before.
> Just a simple piece of backstrap, saddle stitched.
> Help a little to keep the handle shoulder from getting chipped and beat up.
> 
> Another way is to use 14-18" of raw hide strap wrapped on wet and tight.
> When it dries it will be harder and tougher. No pic of this as old Kodak
> power supply went to lunch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 188853



Thats a good idea I like your fancy handle saver. Around these parts we just buy electrical tape by the truck load and use it for everything.


----------



## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> I am not a thief the owner the company told me what do. He was told to burn the trees, he told me to salvage the good logs to help recoup the money they failed to pay us. I take being called a liar as fighting words so let us not go down that road:mad2:


 
Far be it from me to harass a fellow AS member but HBRN you are a fool talking like this. Get rid of your keyboard and just read and learn (yeah right). Don't go making threats of violence against against members.


----------



## bitzer

nw axe man said:


> You know, we talk about axes and wedges and what works and what doesn't. One of the things that isn't talked about too much is how to hang an axe so that it maximizes your wedging abilities. It's been my experience that most people aren't too familiar with how to properly hang an axe handle. In my travels it looks as if most guys just put the head on the handle without seeing how it's hung. The driving surface of the axe needs to be parallel to the length of the handle. If it's hung too far forward or backward it will result in lots of damaged wedges as the surface of the axe won't stike the head of the wedge square. As the head of the axe is driven on the axe handle the position of the head relative to the handle can be maneuvered by rasping the axe handle so that it is sitting square on the handle. Takes a little time but results in an axe handle that you can be consistant with while wedging.


 
Yep, I square my heads up to the handle too. Once I think they are set I stand how I would pound a wedge and smack a cross-cut log to check how I did. If the indent looks pretty even I should be good to go. I can not for the life of me find an axe with a straight handle in these parts. I have to buy the axe with the curved handle, knock it out, and replace it with a staight handle bought seperatly. In the meantime I add weight and length to the pall while its off the handle. I've got a couple different ones laying around. A 4.5lb and a 6.5lb are in the regular rotation. The 6.5lber is a mutilator if you're not careful. 

K&H and Stihl make triple taper wedges. They are in 8 or 10" (can't remember which) and start out double tapered until you get to 2-3" from the butt and then they flair out to the thickness of a 12". I've never used them. My K&H 7"er also has nearly the butt thickness of a 12" . The 10"ers seem seem to have a much finer taper. 

Just to add to the list: I've got some Husqvarna wedges that are ok too. My guess is that all wedges are made by only a few companies and are just colored or branded differently.


----------



## nw axe man

bitzer said:


> Yep, I square my heads up to the handle too. Once I think they are set I stand how I would pound a wedge and smack a cross-cut log to check how I did. If the indent looks pretty even I should be good to go. I can not for the life of me find an axe with a straight handle in these parts. I have to buy the axe with the curved handle, knock it out, and replace it with a staight handle bought seperatly. In the meantime I add weight and length to the pall while its off the handle. I've got a couple different ones laying around. A 4.5lb and a 6.5lb are in the regular rotation. The 6.5lber is a mutilator if you're not careful.
> 
> K&H and Stihl make triple taper wedges. They are in 8 or 10" (can't remember which) and start out double tapered until you get to 2-3" from the butt and then they flair out to the thickness of a 12". I've never used them. My K&H 7"er also has nearly the butt thickness of a 12" . The 10"ers seem seem to have a much finer taper.
> 
> Just to add to the list: I've got some Husqvarna wedges that are ok too. My guess is that all wedges are made by only a few companies and are just colored or branded differently.


 Not to push one shop over another but Madsens sells an assortment of axes with straight handles from 24" to 36". They carry Council heads and they seem to be a good head. If you'll go back to my pics in the first of this thread it's the kind of orange one. I had painted it that color when I was cutting in about 4' of snow and didn't want to lose it. The blue one is a Strohs axe and I'm not sure you can even buy them now. It cost me $50 for the head alone back in 88. The steel is of high quality. I think it will probably push over the 5lb mark. I have a good story on that one from a flood in 96.


----------



## madhatte

I remember the '96 flood. Was working out near Boistfort somewhere and couldn't get across 6 to get back to Centralia, ended up taking the 1000 line over from Doty to the far end of Lincoln Creek. It was flooding there, too, but at least I could get across. 

As for axe handles, I have been hanging them so that when the far end of the handle is touching the bench, the head is contacting about 2/3 of the way down. This puts the back of the handle about parallel with the back of the head, which is as it should be. I also prefer the bent "doe's-foot" handles because it puts the weight of the axe a few degrees ahead of the swing when cutting, and a few degrees behind when pounding wedges. I have several, but my favorites are an old Collins 2 1/2# and an old True-Temper 5#, both of which live in my work rig. I like shorter handles most of the time because they're easier to move around with, even though they're more work to use. 

As for wedges -- I like the Madsen's cheapies, especially the seconds, mainly on account of the fact that I kill 'em fast and am probably not actually that good with 'em so there's no point in spending the big bucks on nice ones if I'm just gonna destroy 'em anyway. I carry 4", 8", 10", and 12" in the truck, and will load out the wedge pouch as appropriate. I have a couple of the triple-tapers and don't really like 'em -- by the time you get back to the sharper slope, you're not lifting much any more, at least in softwood. I can guess that they might be more useful in hardwoods. 

HBRN: chill, man. Serious.


----------



## plasticweld

nw axe man said:


> Please do take some pics of this Sampson. I have a picture of it in my head but would like to see it in action.
> The wooden wedges you speak of don't work too well out here. The US Forest Service used to keep them around till they finally realized that they just don't work too well out here where the trees are so tall. The ones they used just fell apart in a little bit. They did make great door stoppers, though. The plastic ones seem to hold up the best and are the most common. There's still a few guys that use the aluminum wedges but not too many. Most grind out a handle and use them for pounding a wedge or at least getting it started.




I will see what I can do about getting some pictures of the Sampson and the wooden wedges work well in conjunction with the plastic wedges not just by themselves. Also type of wood may have something to do with it, We have iron wood here and normally I can use a wedge made of this for many days, splitting is the big problem with any of the wooden wedges but they are used more to take up the slack so that you can drive the placstic wedge and if while driving the plastic wedge it pops out you still have the wooden one in place


----------



## Rounder

Probably preaching the the choir, but I was in a hurry to get my BS done after work the other day and stopped in the hardware store and grabbed a couple of the stihl wedges. Pretty imppressed with how well they drive into a tree that's really sittling back. Good enough to get something a little more serious in there.

The ####in' wind has been blowing straight up the ####in' hill the past four work days (downhilling tree lengthing for the yarders) so these little bastards have really come in handy. All the damn Larch grow uphill anyways. Yep...I get in a hurry and #### myself every now and then (okay....alot). Good thread.....Most of it, lol-Sam


----------



## stihl 440

mtsamloggit said:


> Probably preaching the the choir, but I was in a hurry to get my BS done after work the other day and stopped in the hardware store and grabbed a couple of the stihl wedges. Pretty imppressed with how well they drive into a tree that's really sittling back. Good enough to get something a little more serious in there.
> 
> The ####in' wind has been blowing straight up the ####in' hill the past four work days (downhilling tree lengthing for the yarders) so these little bastards have really come in handy. All the damn Larch grow uphill anyways. Yep...I get in a hurry and #### myself every now and then (okay....alot). Good thread.....Most of it, lol-Sam


 
If you got production on the brain everyone will get hurry and try to cheat a little bit...but it most of the time ends up bighting you in the A$$ anyway.lol


----------



## Rounder

stihl 440 said:


> If you got production on the brain everyone will get hurry and try to cheat a little bit...but it most of the time ends up bighting you in the A$$ anyway.lol


 
Lol. I have a bad habit of giving a tree a quick glance, and saying to myself, "If it sits back I can push the little ####er over". One problem.....I'm kind of a little ####er. So wedges are nice. Just like 4 wheel drive....use it before you need it.


----------



## madhatte

mtsamloggit said:


> Just like 4 wheel drive....use it before you need it.



Interesting you should say that, as I was trained the exact opposite: use 2WD to get INTO trouble, save 4WD for getting OUT of trouble. It's the "Use A Bigger Hammer" principle. If you start with your biggest hammer, well...

It's always neat to compare methods with other folks.


----------



## forestryworks

mtsamloggit said:


> The ####in' wind has been blowing straight up the ####in' hill the past four work days (downhilling tree lengthing for the yarders) so these little bastards have really come in handy. All the damn Larch grow uphill anyways. Yep...I get in a hurry and #### myself every now and then (okay....alot). Good thread.....Most of it, lol-Sam


 
That's how it was in Oklahominy. Lots of north and south facing slopes. Where did the wind come from? The south. Where were the pine? The south slopes.

Lots of cussing.

But no yarders.

It was fun while it lasted.

Oh and K&H and Double Taper wedges worked well for me. In my really limited experience anyways.


----------



## Gologit

*Ax handles*

Does anybody have a good link on where to buy quality handles? Last week-end I went to just about every store in the area and I found mostly junk. I bought the least junky one I could find but it still isn't real great.


----------



## slowp

There's a cranky guy who makes and brings wooden handles for most everything at the Packwood Flea markets. The next one is on the Labor Day weekend. I don't know about quality, but have heard folks say they think his are good, and some people wait and buy a supply from him. I have a pulaski handle I bought from him. The handles are reasonably priced. But he's not on line. 

Maybe JP can tell if they are really any good. 

I see I should wrap some PINK duck tape around my pulaski handle. I use the pulaski to weed the flower beds. It is also good for killing slugs.


----------



## Rounder

madhatte said:


> Interesting you should say that, as I was trained the exact opposite: use 2WD to get INTO trouble, save 4WD for getting OUT of trouble. It's the "Use A Bigger Hammer" principle. If you start with your biggest hammer, well...
> 
> It's always neat to compare methods with other folks.


 
I guess I was trying to say go with the gut feeling. If I even have the slightest inclination that a tree will sit back on me, I slip a wedge in as the back cut proceeds. If I think I'm gonna go off the road, I throw her in 4. Have you seen my car?, Lol. -Sam


----------



## Rounder

Gologit said:


> Does anybody have a good link on where to buy quality handles? Last week-end I went to just about every store in the area and I found mostly junk. I bought the least junky one I could find but it still isn't real great.


 
Bob, the shop I deal with has been getting some really nice ones. I can send one your way if you want. Just might take a little longer than you want.


----------



## stihl 440

mtsamloggit said:


> Lol. I have a bad habit of giving a tree a quick glance, and saying to myself, "If it sits back I can push the little ####er over". One problem.....I'm kind of a little ####er. So wedges are nice. Just like 4 wheel drive....use it before you need it.


 
Exactly...if you think it will set back 9 times out of ten it will....unless the wind is helping you...which is very seldom....sadly and most of the time the exact opposite. Which is why you adapt to the situation....and learn how to cut in the wind. If you think you'll need a wedge stick one in it..it wont hurt anything even if you dont end up needing it.


----------



## madhatte

mtsamloggit said:


> If I think I'm gonna go off the road, I throw her in 4. Have you seen my car?



Aw, hell, I've munched a few fenders putting momentum where it oughtn't be, so I know no "rule" is perfect. I hear you on the wedges, though -- such a simple bit of insurance, why not? Plus they're like a bobber telling you when the tree is starting to tip. 

Ax handles: I think we're gonna be stuck with not-so-good handles for the foreseeable future, as the big ol' hickory trees the good ones come from are none too abundant any more. Best one in the box will be the one I buy every time. I've seen some pretty lousy ones for sale recently and don't know what to think.


----------



## bitzer

Bob, the only place I've found STRAIGHT straight handles are at old hardware stores that get very little traffic. Even then I go through every one they have. When I'm looking through them I can just about cut the dust off of them with a butter knife. 



Sam, the wind is like a woman....

I wish I could think of something clever to finish that with. Kinda cloudy today. Sounds like you're havin fun though!


----------



## stihl 440

madhatte said:


> Interesting you should say that, as I was trained the exact opposite: use 2WD to get INTO trouble, save 4WD for getting OUT of trouble. It's the "Use A Bigger Hammer" principle. If you start with your biggest hammer, well...
> 
> It's always neat to compare methods with other folks.


 
When logging you'll learn that that is not what works. Why would you fight yourself and wait till the tree sits HARD and try getting a wedge in and beat on it JUST to get the kerf open....now...imagine if you already had a wedge in it and you didnt have to mess with it all that time...and just hit the wedge half the times you would have before and down it goes....and it lifts alot easier without all that pressure too....alot easier huh?....all of the sudden you are getting more production and your less tired right?...beatin wedges wears you out alot faster than anything...and if you mess around with it it is wasted energy that you could have put into getting more trees on the ground if you already had a wedge in it. Try it sometime.


----------



## Rounder

Yes! Forgot that end of it. The wedge does make a nice bobber, lol. As for momentum and slick roads......I'm a puss.....


----------



## forestryworks

Gologit said:


> Does anybody have a good link on where to buy quality handles? Last week-end I went to just about every store in the area and I found mostly junk. I bought the least junky one I could find but it still isn't real great.


 
I got a really nice one from Madsen's about a month ago.

Still need to get the ax head hung on the handle.


----------



## stihl 440

madhatte said:


> I hear you on the wedges, though -- such a simple bit of insurance, why not? Plus they're like a bobber telling you when the tree is starting to tip.QUOTE]
> 
> And thats another use...ur wedge will tell you what she's doing too...especially in the wind....you'll see the head of the wedge lift if she sits and see her drop if shes going. And look up too!


----------



## RandyMac

I bent the handle on my Pulaski on purpose. Can you guess why?


----------



## madhatte

I don't get to guess, do I?


----------



## RandyMac

madhatte said:


> I don't get to guess, do I?


 
Sure, after all.....................


----------



## madhatte

Wouldn't be sporting!


----------



## RandyMac

madhatte said:


> Wouldn't be sporting!


 
Danggitt!
I musta told you!

LOL!


----------



## paccity

ya when rootin threw the handles at the hardware store for 20 min's and the teenager workin there is lookin at you funny. on the wheelin i find slow and steady is what i do. it's easyer to get of a situation 2 feet off the road than 20 feet. but thats just me.


----------



## slowp

Sounds like a Seekrit Of The Traveling Ceegar Brothers. I'm wondering if I know? Probly not.


----------



## paccity

damn i type slow. randy are you left or right handed?


----------



## RandyMac

paccity said:


> damn i type slow. randy are you left or right handed?


 
Ambi when it comes to a few things, handtools is one of them.

I got my little left hand taped in nursery school, gave me a mild form of dyslexia and the ability to use both hands.


----------



## madhatte

paccity said:


> it's easyer to get of a situation 2 feet off the road than 20 feet. but thats just me.



Naw, you're right. It'd take a REEEEEEAAALY high-lift jack to roll you out of 20 feet of trouble.


----------



## paccity

just thinkin through a therory on why it's bent. still thinkin.


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> Naw, you're right. It'd take a REEEEEEAAALY high-lift jack to roll you out of 20 feet of trouble.


 
depends on if the 20 feet is vert or horizontal.:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## RandyMac

Hi-lifts are great things, I used to carry two.
There was a road where I caught the rear diff on the same rock, every time. 30 minutes with a big hammer solved that.


----------



## Sport Faller

Hi-Lifts are spooky as hell, they always seem like they're about to shoot out from whatever they're precariously wedged under and hit you square in the stones


----------



## 2dogs

I have good luck with Madsen's re handles BUT I ask the order taker to pick out a couple of good ones. Pulaskis get a fiberglass handle these days.

One of my hobbies is rehandling tools. Every store I go to that has handles my daughter tries to drag me through so I won't go look at every handle they have. Drives her crazy.


----------



## indiansprings

For good handles.......House's Handle Factory, Cassville, Mo. ask for Chris, he owns the place. They source their hickory locally,makes handles on machinery dating back to the late 1800's. They will custom make handles as well to fit your specific needs. I re-handled a bunch of old hand tools buying from his place. For splitting maul handles I just buy his seconds, 2.00 a piece. Leave a axe head or maul head and they will put the handle on for you. Top notch people, they supply a lot of the handles sold under other names at retail. I even bought some 14' oak gig handles there for 10.00 a piece. Try finding a gig handle at your local sporting goods store.


----------



## RandyMac

"Nothing beats a good piece of Hickory"


----------



## coastalfaller

bitzer said:


> Bob, the only place I've found STRAIGHT straight handles are at old hardware stores that get very little traffic. Even then I go through every one they have. When I'm looking through them I can just about cut the dust off of them with a butter knife.
> 
> 
> 
> Sam, the wind is like a woman....
> 
> I wish I could think of something clever to finish that with. Kinda cloudy today. Sounds like you're havin fun though!


 
Haha, I've got one for you! Quoted from one of my fallers, women are like the big rotten hemlocks, you ask them politely to do one thing, but they still end up doing whatever the hell they want anyway! lol


----------



## 2dogs

indiansprings said:


> For good handles.......House's Handle Factory, Cassville, Mo. ask for Chris, he owns the place. They source their hickory locally,makes handles on machinery dating back to the late 1800's. They will custom make handles as well to fit your specific needs. I re-handled a bunch of old hand tools buying from his place. For splitting maul handles I just buy his seconds, 2.00 a piece. Leave a axe head or maul head and they will put the handle on for you. Top notch people, they supply a lot of the handles sold under other names at retail. I even bought some 14' oak gig handles there for 10.00 a piece. Try finding a gig handle at your local sporting goods store.


 
If he sells on ebay I may have done business with him.


----------



## 2dogs

RandyMac said:


> "Nothing beats a good piece of Hickory"


 
Or John Wayne in "The Sons of Katie Elder". "Hey!"


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Axe*

The Stihl short handle axe's are my new favorite toy.


----------



## paccity

:monkey:


----------



## Cedar Ed

Yeah, I like the Madsen's wedges,and I got a nice double bit Truper ax from them, and it has a nice hickory handle.


----------



## nw axe man

Gologit said:


> Does anybody have a good link on where to buy quality handles? Last week-end I went to just about every store in the area and I found mostly junk. I bought the least junky one I could find but it still isn't real great.


Madsens has them made somewhere back east to their specs. They buy them by the bulk. As with most handles you have to pick through them to find the right grain pattern and straightness. I would imagine especially in bulk you'll get more than a few dog leg handles. That brings up another point about axe handles, the grain and how it runs through the handle. I buy them with the grain running parallel to the axe head. The handle takes it a lot more than when it runs perpendicular to the head.
You might give them a call to see if you can get someone to run through some handles for you. Most of those guys have a clue about what to look for.


----------



## nw axe man

stihl 440 said:


> When logging you'll learn that that is not what works. Why would you fight yourself and wait till the tree sits HARD and try getting a wedge in and beat on it JUST to get the kerf open....now...imagine if you already had a wedge in it and you didnt have to mess with it all that time...and just hit the wedge half the times you would have before and down it goes....and it lifts alot easier without all that pressure too....alot easier huh?....all of the sudden you are getting more production and your less tired right?...beatin wedges wears you out alot faster than anything...and if you mess around with it it is wasted energy that you could have put into getting more trees on the ground if you already had a wedge in it. Try it sometime.


 
Well said.


----------



## nw axe man

indiansprings said:


> For good handles.......House's Handle Factory, Cassville, Mo. ask for Chris, he owns the place. They source their hickory locally,makes handles on machinery dating back to the late 1800's. They will custom make handles as well to fit your specific needs. I re-handled a bunch of old hand tools buying from his place. For splitting maul handles I just buy his seconds, 2.00 a piece. Leave a axe head or maul head and they will put the handle on for you. Top notch people, they supply a lot of the handles sold under other names at retail. I even bought some 14' oak gig handles there for 10.00 a piece. Try finding a gig handle at your local sporting goods store.


 
What in the world is a gig handle?


----------



## slangegger

I've seen this posted on here before (I think it was Slowp). 

Thought it was pertinent to this thread

http://www.pcta.org/pdf/an_ax_to_grind.pdf


----------



## GRTimberCO

I carry a light boys axe for driving wedges and I've yet to find a way to carry an axe that I really like. through the belt loop in the pouch it keeps trieng to slide out. How do you guys carry them?


----------



## Joe46

nw axe man said:


> What in the world is a gig handle?


 
I'll take a stab it:msp_biggrin: I think It's for hunting frogs and things like that. The head you put on it has tines with barbs. Frog gigs.


----------



## nw axe man

Joe46 said:


> I'll take a stab it:msp_biggrin: I think It's for hunting frogs and things like that. The head you put on it has tines with barbs. Frog gigs.


 
Not sure why, but that really got a laugh out of me. Must be the context of logging forum and axe handles. I never would have guessed. lol


----------



## nw axe man

GRTimberCO said:


> I carry a light boys axe for driving wedges and I've yet to find a way to carry an axe that I really like. through the belt loop in the pouch it keeps trieng to slide out. How do you guys carry them?


 
Well, with my axes there's just no way to get around it. You have to carry them from tree to tree. Sure makes you conscious of where you put it and makes you consistant where you put it. One thing I've found is always lay it down by the next tree to fall or the stump of the one you just fell. On flat ground never lean it up against the next tree. One time I did that and came up to the next tree forgetting that I'd leaned it up against the far side. I spent the day with a one foot axe handle that I had a hard time wedging trees over with. At least I didn't cut the axe head and ruin a chain to boot. As I look back on it it seems like there isn't a stupid thing that I haven't done at one time or another. I guess that's that school of hard knocks, eh? Anybody relate?


----------



## Joe46

nw axe man said:


> Well, with my axes there's just no way to get around it. You have to carry them from tree to tree. Sure makes you conscious of where you put it and makes you consistant where you put it. One thing I've found is always lay it down by the next tree to fall or the stump of the one you just fell. On flat ground never lean it up against the next tree. One time I did that and came up to the next tree forgetting that I'd leaned it up against the far side. I spent the day with a one foot axe handle that I had a hard time wedging trees over with. At least I didn't cut the axe head and ruin a chain to boot. As I look back on it it seems like there isn't a stupid thing that I haven't done at one time or another. I guess that's that school of hard knocks, eh? Anybody relate?


 
Yes Sir. Not a logging story, but.......... Many years ago I worked as an ornamental ironworker. I made elevators. We used a lot of 4'X8' sheets of steel.We'd cut them on a shear. We generally work down to 32nd of an inch. On more than one occasion I'd hit the shear and cut the end of my tape off. As soon as it came flying back at me I knew I'd screwed up


----------



## Gologit

nw axe man said:


> Well, with my axes there's just no way to get around it. You have to carry them from tree to tree. Sure makes you conscious of where you put it and makes you consistant where you put it. One thing I've found is always lay it down by the next tree to fall or the stump of the one you just fell. On flat ground never lean it up against the next tree. One time I did that and came up to the next tree forgetting that I'd leaned it up against the far side. I spent the day with a one foot axe handle that I had a hard time wedging trees over with. At least I didn't cut the axe head and ruin a chain to boot. As I look back on it it seems like there isn't a stupid thing that I haven't done at one time or another. I guess that's that school of hard knocks, eh? Anybody relate?


 
Yup...I can relate. I had to quit laughing about the one foot axe handle before I replied, though. I've done the same thing but I had an 18 incher when I was done. And leaners to wedge the rest of the day, too. I think that at the end of that day my right arm was longer than my left from swinging that short axe extra hard.

And you're right about "stupid" stuff. If you made a list of every goof-up that a guy in the woods could make I think most of us could put a check mark beside every one of them. I know my list would probably run at least two pages. They're learning experiences if you let them be but that sure doesn't take the sting out of them.

One question, though. Why is it, that when you screw something up royally, there's always somebody there to see it? And that person is always somebody you'd rather not make a dumb mistake in front of? Like the bullbuck or the side-rod? Or your partner? Or your wife? Never fails.

Ever notice how a lot of times lunch time conversations are about screw-ups? Nobody ever talks about the 500 trees that old so-and-so put right where they should have...they talk about that one tree that went sideways and took out the boss's new pickup. No mercy at all.

And thanks, everybody, for the advice and links on the axe-handles...there's gotta be some good ones some darn place.


----------



## indiansprings

A gig handle is what we put a multi pointed barbed head on, you guys prolly call them a fish spear, we use them for harvesting frogs out of farm ponds and streams. We hang coleman lanterns or bright lights on the front of a flat bottom boat and float down these crystal clear streams in the Ozarks and spear or gig suckers and other rough fish for fish frys. A handle is usually is about 2-2.5" in dia and 10-14' long.
It's a dying tradition, people just go to a fancy restraunt to eat frog legs instead of going out and catching their own.


----------



## outdoorlivin247

indiansprings said:


> A gig handle is what we put a multi pointed barbed head on, you guys prolly call them a fish spear, we use them for harvesting frogs out of farm ponds and streams. We hang coleman lanterns or bright lights on the front of a flat bottom boat and float down these crystal clear streams in the Ozarks and spear or gig suckers and other rough fish for fish frys. A handle is usually is about 2-2.5" in dia and 10-14' long.
> It's a dying tradition, people just go to a fancy restraunt to eat frog legs instead of going out and catching their own.


 
Sounds way to easy...We just blind them with a spot light then grab them with our hands...


----------



## STEVEGODSEYJR

This is now the forestry and frogging  forum


----------



## Gologit

indiansprings said:


> A gig handle is what we put a multi pointed barbed head on, you guys prolly call them a fish spear, we use them for harvesting frogs out of farm ponds and streams. We hang coleman lanterns or bright lights on the front of a flat bottom boat and float down these crystal clear streams in the Ozarks and spear or gig suckers and other rough fish for fish frys. A handle is usually is about 2-2.5" in dia and 10-14' long.
> It's a dying tradition, people just go to a fancy restraunt to eat frog legs instead of going out and catching their own.


 
Okay, now it makes sense. We use to gig salmon in the rivers on the coast when we were kids. That would probably get you arrested these days.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Axe carry*

Some guys use a aluminum box to carry the axe in, it attaches to a belt. I slip my stihl axe in the leather frog on my jack straps in the back. The other way to carry a axe is to drill a hole in the handle and put a piece of cordage thru and attach some sort of snap lock device,clip it to a belt loop, not good for heavy head.


----------



## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> Okay, now it makes sense. We use to gig salmon in the rivers on the coast when we were kids. That would probably get you arrested these days.



We did that every Easter vacation.

Oh yeah, 75% of what we did for fun and as a matter of course, would get you clapped in irons now.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> We did that every Easter vacation.
> 
> Oh yeah, 75% of what we did for fun and as a matter of course, would get you clapped in irons now.


 
LOL...more like 95%. Like the time "somebody" put up the Timber Harvest Boundary ribbon in Sequoia Park in Eureka.


----------



## RandyMac

I could use, ah, a couple hundred feet of the tape.


----------



## nw axe man

RandyMac said:


> I could use, ah, a couple hundred feet of the tape.


 
Alright, Randy. 
I was viewing this site at 4:30-5 this morning and read your question "anybody know why I bent the Pulaski handle?" I can see that no one is biting so, I will. 
Why did you bend the Pulaski handle? I was thinking that you reverted back to the handfalling days. Maybe not?


----------



## RandyMac

Pretty close. The bent handle made reaching into blockcuts easier. Being a grunt, I spent much of my day busting up chunks and levering them out.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Handle bent*

I remember one old faller did the same thing to get a better hit on on the wedges in awkward spots. As to doing to a pulaski I would figure less chance of hitting the foot, kinda like a broad axe.


----------



## nw axe man

Gologit said:


> Yup...I can relate. I had to quit laughing about the one foot axe handle before I replied, though. I've done the same thing but I had an 18 incher when I was done. And leaners to wedge the rest of the day, too. I think that at the end of that day my right arm was longer than my left from swinging that short axe extra hard.
> 
> And you're right about "stupid" stuff. If you made a list of every goof-up that a guy in the woods could make I think most of us could put a check mark beside every one of them. I know my list would probably run at least two pages. They're learning experiences if you let them be but that sure doesn't take the sting out of them.
> 
> One question, though. Why is it, that when you screw something up royally, there's always somebody there to see it? And that person is always somebody you'd rather not make a dumb mistake in front of? Like the bullbuck or the side-rod? Or your partner? Or your wife? Never fails.
> Ever notice how a lot of times lunch time conversations are about screw-ups? Nobody ever talks about the 500 trees that old so-and-so put right where they should have...they talk about that one tree that went sideways and took out the boss's new pickup. No mercy at all.
> 
> And thanks, everybody, for the advice and links on the axe-handles...there's gotta be some good ones some darn place.




Man, you must be special if all you can fill up is two pages. I'm sure I could come up with a book.
Regarding screwing up something up royally.
There's a book called Timber Country revisited. In it is a picture of my father and uncle. Right behind them is a fir that my dad fell right alongside the road. When that picture was taken I had just alligatored that nice 4' fir log. My dad ran over to it and immediately took a chunk of wood and placed it in the slab I had just made off the bottom of the log. "There" he said sarcastically, with a large hint Betty Crocker pissed off, "that way that damn alligator won't go hungry". All this while the guy was taking pictures and the owner of the logging outfit plus a few dignitaries from the FS standing around. Talk about humiliating. I knew I had done wrong and made a mistake reading the bind, but at least I was just a dumb bucker and at the time really didn't know how I bad Ihad pooped in my nest


----------



## nw axe man

RandyMac said:


> Pretty close. The bent handle made reaching into blockcuts easier. Being a grunt, I spent much of my day busting up chunks and levering them out.


 
Now that would be because of the way redwoods are undercut, right? I see where they didn't necessarily use a humbolt or conventional cut but would block it out?


----------



## RandyMac

I slabbed a Redwood on the 4th cut and was addressed as "boy" for a week. Regardless of the lay of the log, you were expected to be nearly perfect. There is much to be said about the old style formal training.


----------



## Gologit

nw axe man said:


> Man, you must be special if all you can fill up is two pages. I'm sure I could come up with a book.
> Regarding screwing up something up royally.




Yup...just two pages. But I write really small and I can get a lot on two pages. A whole lot.


----------



## RandyMac

nw axe man said:


> Now that would be because of the way redwoods are undercut, right? I see where they didn't necessarily use a humbolt or conventional cut but would block it out?


 Humboldts and what we called "Orygun" cuts were used often enough, block or step cuts made up over half, at least what I saw in our area.
It had as much to do with the sheer size than anything else, angled cuts take up a lot of room and time. There was also the mechanics of how you needed the tree to fall. I forget the exact formula, so many inches of rise/step depending on diameter of trunk and angle of slope. Uphill falls need less, downhill cuts could be very wide. Snipe placement, angle and depth were critical. To tell the truth, at the time, I found Redwood logging to be tedious. The value of the wood meant strict attention, an error of an inch could cost $100s at the mill.


----------



## nw axe man

I agree. There's a whole lot to be said for that kind of training. Especially when what you really crave from those older guys is respect. There's only one way to get it and that's to do it right. You might only get a nod, but that was enough. At least you knew you were on the right track. It's that scowl that really hurt. No words, just a scowl.


----------



## nw axe man

RandyMac said:


> Humboldts and what we called "Orygun" cuts were used often enough, block or step cuts made up over half, at least what I saw in our area.
> It had as much to do with the sheer size than anything else, angled cuts take up a lot of room and time. There was also the mechanics of how you needed the tree to fall. I forget the exact formula, so many inches of rise/step depending on diameter of trunk and angle of slope. Uphill falls need less, downhill cuts could be very wide. Snipe placement, angle and depth were critical. To tell the truth, at the time, I found Redwood logging to be tedious. The value of the wood meant strict attention, an error of an inch could cost $100s at the mill.


 
Interesting. I've never done the block out cut. I have super 8 movies of my father running a two man Diston and he and his brother blocking out cuts on big oldgrowth fir. I guess by the time I got into it that had passed with the advent of the lighter faster saws. Yes, falling large wood is tedious and takes a lot of work. It's also an art form as far as I'm concerned. One that is fast becoming lost. The part I love is the challenge of putting trees right where you want them and for a strip to look like the fingers of your hand laying out all nice and perfect. The thought that any one tree can screw your strip up for 2-3 weeks makes one pay close attention to detail. You're right on, that inch can cost not only dollars at the mill but dollars in your pocket.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Cuts*

Another thing about big trees one inch too much and get a faller killed or maimed. The bigger the tree the more time spent doing the cuts wiil save life and limb as well as BF value.


----------



## RandyMac

Old Ray was one of my Grandad's buddies, the pressure was doubled. I am now the age that Ray was, if the world had spun differently, I would be riding herd on a high strung kid, as punishment.
He said "Do exactly what I say, exactly how I tell you to and we will be fine, and quit looking at my daughter like that!"
I remember being upgraded from boy to lad, it really stung to be called boy after a preventable mishap.
Not a day goes by without me hearing his voice, much of his advice applied to every day life. That year with him was worth ten.


----------



## RandyMac

Arboristsite MVP
This message is hidden because HILLBILLYREDNEC is on your ignore list.


I don't know or care what you have to add. Maybe you should just go #### yourself.


----------



## Gologit

nw axe man said:


> I agree. There's a whole lot to be said for that kind of training. Especially when what you really crave from those older guys is respect. There's only one way to get it and that's to do it right. You might only get a nod, but that was enough. At least you knew you were on the right track. It's that scowl that really hurt. No words, just a scowl.


 
Yup. Sometimes, when I was breaking in, I would have settled for just not getting yelled at. My uncle taught me...and he was a yeller. Maybe because he was deaf from too many years on the saw. When I got so I could go a whole day and not get yelled at I figured I was making progress.

But...as I got better his expectations got higher too. Much higher. It was a natural progression and I recognize that now but at the time it sure put the pressure on. When I started we were right at the end of the old growth Redwood days. The older guys knew that and I think they wanted their last work to be their best. What Randy said about an inch costing money was true then. And having a big one splatter was just a terrible thing.

The guys that taught me weren't much for praise. A look or a nod was as fancy as it got. But when you understood the language...it was enough.


----------



## Gologit

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Another thing about big trees one inch too much and get a faller killed or maimed. The bigger the tree the more time spent doing the cuts wiil save life and limb as well as BF value.


 
Sssshhhh...the grownups are talking.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> I could use, ah, a couple hundred feet of the tape.


 
I'll look in the shop. I still have some...if I can dig through enough dark corners I can find it. I _don't_ want to know what will be done with it. I imagine I'll be reading about it in the paper.

Edit...how 'bout an old scruffy looking CAUTION---TIMBER FALLING AHEAD sign?


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Tree falling*

My best friend taught me the tricks to the bigger trees, so I know what I am talking about. He was as mean and as nasty as they come and I was given no mercy. If know much about timber you know the word Barber chair, watch as he laying a big cedar into a strip and the tree barber chaired, I was scared sheetless watching him run for his life. I have a healthy respect the bigger trees. He was a old school faller that was willing to show us young fallers the right way.


----------



## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> I'll look in the shop. I still have some...if I can dig through enough dark corners I can find it. I _don't_ want to know what will be done with it. I imagine I'll be reading about it in the paper.
> 
> Edit...how 'bout an old scruffy looking CAUTION---TIMBER FALLING AHEAD sign?


 
Scruffy is good, I would be honored.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Scruffy is good, I would be honored.


 
Might take awhile but I'll dig it out.


----------



## little possum

Well since most of you live on the wrong side of the country, I think Ill just sit over here and read! It would be awesome to learn to fall with some of you! But also at the same time, Im glad I dont have to log for a living.
Randy and Bob, why dont yall move over here!  First 3 beers are on me!


----------



## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> Might take awhile but I'll get dig it out.


 
Next time I see ya will be soon enough. Wait that didn't sound right.
When you have the chance, will be great.
(Don't want to be demoted back to boy)


----------



## Gologit

little possum said:


> Well since most of you live on the wrong side of the country, I think Ill just sit over here and read! It would be awesome to learn to fall with some of you! But also at the same time, Im glad I dont have to log for a living.
> Randy and Bob, why dont yall move over here!  First 3 beers are on me!


 
LP, if I drank 3 beers all at once I wouldn't be any fun at all...'cause I'd be asleep. Now, one beer, with a pizza...I could handle that.


----------



## little possum

Hah, same here.  
We dont really use wedges much here. We cable everything off or use the skidsteer to push anything where it needs to go. Mostly small wood, and by the time you get enough of a cut to drive the wedge in, the tree is already goin the wrong way. But I dont claim to be a logger. Just a thinner 
But we have plastic wedges, some with teeth. The steel ones have been retired to spitting duty when I get bored.


----------



## RandyMac

little possum+
You are going to have to head West. I can't cross the Rockies for another year.


----------



## paccity

ha! bob ben sittin here watchin you bite your lipp.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*WEst*

Come to my part of the world and we have quite a few brewery's around here. These yuppys around like their micro brews


----------



## lfnh

Any links to photos of wedges used back in hand felling days ?

Look at usuall places but may have missed something.




..not biting


----------



## slowp

RandyMac said:


> I could use, ah, a couple hundred feet of the tape.


 
Specifications, please. 

Should one of the People Of The Hats come upon you, you were just flagging your way so as not to be lost. 

The knot should face into the unit.


----------



## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> My best friend taught me the tricks to the bigger trees, so I know what I am talking about. He was as mean and as nasty as they come and I was given no mercy. If know much about timber you know the word Barber chair, watch as he laying a big cedar into a strip and the tree barber chaired, I was scared sheetless watching him run for his life. I have a healthy respect the bigger trees. He was a old school faller that was willing to show us young fallers the right way.


 
So now you are a faller again huh? Did your friend teach you how to farmer cut big trees too? You have no credibility here. Get it?


----------



## paccity

is'nt it just amazing?


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> is'nt it just amazing?


 
Well, that's probably a gentler word than I'd use but yeah, it is.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

2dogs said:


> So now you are a faller again huh? Did your friend teach you how to farmer cut big trees too? You have no credibility here. Get it?


 
Uhm the village is missing its bad mouther and they want him back:msp_ohmy:


----------



## Gologit

I wonder if it's possible to get somebody banned from just one section, like the F and L for example. Then maybe hbrn could go back down to the chainsaw and off topic threads and annoy _them_ for a change.

Wait..I know...maybe he could be banned from everything but the Homeowner Help section...he's always very helpful with advice and I think he'd do well there. Under close supervision of course.


----------



## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Uhm the village is missing its bad mouther and they want him back:msp_ohmy:


 
Clever Scotty.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Next time I see ya will be soon enough. Wait that didn't sound right.
> When you have the chance, will be great.
> (Don't want to be demoted back to boy)


 
You saved that at the last minute.


----------



## Joe46

Check out the ignore list. Somebody from Norcal mentioned it. I no longer see post from idiot boy:msp_thumbup:


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Well, that's probably a gentler word than I'd use but yeah, it is.


 
just trying to be civilized.


----------



## KiwiBro

*Far out.*

I created a monster.

Thanks to all those who added anything constructive. I'm grateful for any chance to learn.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Wedges*

Wedges are a safety tool when falling trees and bucking logs.


----------



## paccity

Wow!


----------



## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Wedges are a safety tool when falling trees and bucking logs.


 
So how about answering a simple question? Let us say you have a 4' fir to cut down. It is a good solid tree with no lean. Will you put in a sloping backcut? Yes or no?


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*To wedge or not wedge*

No need for a sloping back cut on a solid green tree. Flat cut and put a few wedges in for safety and watch the old girl hit the terra ferma The only time sloping cuts get used is for very rotten high risk trees, not solid live trees.


----------



## 2dogs

OK. Thanks for the quick reply. What size trees does the sloping backcut work in? Also, just to be clear, do you only use the sloping backcut in rotten tres?


----------



## dave k

As I have already posted there is some great info posted on this thread and as we all know some complete dross by one member ! but as a member from across the way some of the terms may as well be klingon ! so should I start a new thread or is it ok to carry on here ?
Im refering to the felling cut terms I'm fairly sure I have got most of it but would rather be sure.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

2dogs said:


> OK. Thanks for the quick reply. What size trees does the sloping backcut work in? Also, just to be clear, do you only use the sloping backcut in rotten tres?


 
The rotten trees all these guys flip out over had the tops snap off years earlier. The first snag was way to close to a major power line, it was 45 feet tall, we rigged a rope to pull the top in the right direction. The sloping cut was used with wedges to push the snag over and keep the butt in contact with the stump, the wood had limit strength. I had to be sure to get the snag safely on the ground, to many neighbors watching.


----------



## nw axe man

lfnh said:


> Any links to photos of wedges used back in hand felling days ?
> 
> Look at usuall places but may have missed something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..not biting


 
I'll try to remember to take some pics tonite of some falling and bucking wedges that I have in my collection. Once you see them you'll be real glad that we have plastic wedges.


----------



## bitzer

Holy balls, about the only thing that'll keep a kid off of ya is if you ignore him. 


Anyway, great stories about when you boys got broke in. I only wish I could have grown up in such a great time and place. Randy, I remember you mentioning that pulaski and bustin blocks, that woulda been my guess.

I re-hung these both during my lunch break today. The lighter one shook loose last week and the heavier one needed a longer handle. Also this is how I carry my axe. 3" belt leather. I do a lot of carpentry for one of my jobs and on my free time so I am used to always wearing some kind of belt with everything in it. 











View attachment 189000

View attachment 189001


----------



## plasticweld

*AXE CARRY*

On page 8 someone asked how do you carry the axe I use a leather hammer holder and then bend the loop up and around so it fits axe snugg I then use enough tape on the end of the axe so it is a tight fit and will not slip out unless you give it a good tug

*Best use for a wedge not realated to logging*

I used mine to wedge the door open between the door frame and the door just above the electric door switch so I catch it with a cloths hanger to open the door after my wife locked the keys in the truck

*Has anyone tried one of these*

Fiskars X25 Super Splitting Axe with 28" Handle 

I thought of buying even though it was high priced and cutting the handle off at the right length it is use less in it current form but seems like it would make a sweet axe for driving wedges


----------



## Gologit

dave k said:


> As I have already posted there is some great info posted on this thread and as we all know some complete dross by one member ! but as a member from across the way some of the terms may as well be klingon ! so should I start a new thread or is it ok to carry on here ?
> Im refering to the felling cut terms I'm fairly sure I have got most of it but would rather be sure.


 
Either way would be fine. These logging threads kind of meander around anyway. Another meander won't hurt. Ask away. If, perchance, you get some really bad information from an ankle biting wannabe I'm sure the rest of us will clarify things for you.


----------



## 056 kid

bitzer said:


> Holy balls, about the only thing that'll keep a kid off of ya is if you ignore him.
> 
> 
> Anyway, great stories about when you boys got broke in. I only wish I could have grown up in such a great time and place. Randy, I remember you mentioning that pulaski and bustin blocks, that woulda been my guess.
> 
> I re-hung these both during my lunch break today. The lighter one shook loose last week and the heavier one needed a longer handle. Also this is how I carry my axe. 3" belt leather. I do a lot of carpentry for one of my jobs and on my free time so I am used to always wearing some kind of belt with everything in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 189000
> 
> View attachment 189001


 
hey now, cant you word that any differently?:biggrin:


----------



## lfnh

nw axe man said:


> I'll try to remember to take some pics tonite of some falling and bucking wedges that I have in my collection. Once you see them you'll be real glad that we have plastic wedges.


 
Thought I had remembered seeing a couple of old black and whites on one of the historical site collections, but just haven't been able to find it again..


----------



## 056 kid

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The rotten trees all these guys flip out over had the tops snap off years earlier. The first snag was way to close to a major power line, it was 45 feet tall, we rigged a rope to pull the top in the right direction. The sloping cut was used with wedges to push the snag over and keep the butt in contact with the stump, the wood had limit strength. I had to be sure to get the snag safely on the ground, to many neighbors watching.


 
So you put wedges in a sloping back cut of a rotten tree, man you make yourself sound worse and worse!


----------



## bitzer

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The rotten trees all these guys flip out over had the tops snap off years earlier. The first snag was way to close to a major power line, it was 45 feet tall, we rigged a rope to pull the top in the right direction. The sloping cut was used with wedges to push the snag over and keep the butt in contact with the stump, the wood had limit strength. I had to be sure to get the snag safely on the ground, to many neighbors watching.


 

Alright I'm going to say one thing in reference to you. I'm not really sure how the thread ended where I said my piece about the $4000 snag removal around the power line with the infamous farmer cut pics because it was shut down by the time I got back there how many weeks or months ago. My 4 year old son could pull the line on that 45ft tall rotten piece of #### you keep railing about. It wasn't the spectacular sloping backcut and wedges that kept that thing moving. A rope 2/3 of the way up a tree can do an incredible amount of work. Leverage. Physics, etc...


We will all get it in the end. Some sooner than others.


----------



## bitzer

056 kid said:


> hey now, cant you word that any differently?:biggrin:


 
Oh ####, took me a little while to get it. Not you man, no offense! Hey you been doin any fishin lately?


----------



## Gologit

056 kid said:


> So you put wedges in a sloping back cut of a rotten tree, man you make yourself sound worse and worse!


 
Hey Ted, remind me not to hire that guy if I need somebody who knows what they're doing.


----------



## stihl 440

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The rotten trees all these guys flip out over had the tops snap off years earlier. The first snag was way to close to a major power line, it was 45 feet tall, we rigged a rope to pull the top in the right direction. The sloping cut was used with wedges to push the snag over and keep the butt in contact with the stump, the wood had limit strength. I had to be sure to get the snag safely on the ground, to many neighbors watching.


 
Just take a hike kid.....get on outta here.


----------



## 056 kid

bitzer said:


> Oh ####, took me a little while to get it. Not you man, no offense! Hey you been doin any fishin lately?


 Got into some warm water fish here in VA, few bass, lots of pan fish. i am kiching myself for not bring more gear with me,(its all packed up ready to be moved) once I return to the left side I plan on hooking my first king salmon but that is a big thing. I know NOTHING about the water where Im moving to, I do know that there is plenty of it!


Gologit said:


> Hey Ted, remind me not to hire that guy if I need somebody who knows what they're doing.


 
You got it Boss.


----------



## dave k

Bitzer, when I saw the post of your wedge pouch the other day I was going to reply that I liked your pouch but it just seemed a touch strange ! but I can't resist "you are well hung" well atleast in the in the axe handle dept !
Gologit, thanks I like the meander side of things, first off Randy refered to a Block cut and Im guessing that it is in the case of old growth where an actual directional cut would be of small use ? you are removing a notch to allow the fall or is it the direcrtional cut being "blocked out " what we call the face cut or Gob ? I will have many more Im sure !!


----------



## 2dogs

I've fished for salmon just outside the mouth of the Columbia twice. It was really great but if you see a couple fried eggs and a donut floating around ot there stay away from it. Bad juju.


----------



## 056 kid

LOL, eggs, cop treats, huh?


----------



## 2dogs

dave k said:


> Bitzer, when I saw the post of your wedge pouch the other day I was going to reply that I liked your pouch but it just seemed a touch strange ! but I can't resist "you are well hung" well atleast in the in the axe handle dept !
> Gologit, thanks I like the meander side of things, first off Randy refered to a Block cut and Im guessing that it is in the case of old growth where an actual directional cut would be of small use ? you are removing a notch to allow the fall or is it the direcrtional cut being "blocked out " what we call the face cut or Gob ? I will have many more Im sure !!


 
I don't block cut more than a couple times each year but when I do I like to have a railroad pick to help get the blocks out. I am not good at block cuts where the tree is bigger than the saw bar. That takes some serious skill.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Block cutting is a art form.You rarely see a tree being taken that needs a block cut. We have gone to harvesting pecker poles in the US as a general rule. Canada still harvests a lot of big trees still


----------



## 056 kid

You rarely see a tree being taken that needs a block cut. Canada still harvests a lot of big trees still. Block cutting is a art form. We have gone to harvesting pecker poles in the US as a general rule.


----------



## Joe46

2dogs said:


> I've fished for salmon just outside the mouth of the Columbia twice. It was really great but if you see a couple fried eggs and a donut floating around ot there stay away from it. Bad juju.


 
OK. Now that's funny right there. That's called chumming. Herring chunks usually work better however.


----------



## dave k

That anklebiter is still hanging around ! Thanks 2 Dogs that is what I thought, the direction cut is large enough to have to be sectioned out. Getting everything lined up would be hard enough alright.


----------



## Rounder

Holy #### balls, I go to work and come back and this thing's still alive.

Back on topic. That little Stihl wedge is quite the trick piece of equiptment. Had a big cold front blow in today. Last hour of the day of course. Nice fat rotten, uphill leaning fir. That little bastard will drive into anything. Best 5 bucks I've spent in a long time. No...you're not supposed to get pinched......especially when posting on internet forums full of big bad timber fallers......But I'm just a regular faller......and I get pinched......and that little wedge is amazing.

Bitzer, I like the wedge pouch, seems like a good set up. My pockets are quite stretched. Lol.

Lots of good info here...but.....ignore button....use it.

Hope you all are well and busy - Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Here is a baby faced Cody playing with the block-cut.

YouTube - ‪Falling Old Growth Redwood. Humboldt County CA 2002‬&rlm;

YouTube - ‪Falling an Old Growth Redwood; Humboldt County 2002‬&rlm;

I saw it used mostly in trees 10' to 22' in diameter.
Properly done, you can control the trunk almost every second, until it hits the ground.

I block-cut this Pine, it needed to be placed perfectly and fall in a certain way.







My first Redwood. It was an inch bigger than Cody's.


----------



## 2dogs

One of the first things I bought from Bailey's was rafting axe. It was a 5lb head on a 28" handle. That was back around 1986 I guess. I wasn't falling any big stuff so a year or so later I bought a 3lb axe. That was a little too light so I bought a 4lb axe from Madsen's. All these axes were Council or Collins. Cody needed an axe for himself so I called Madsen's and ordered another 5lb axe. I did not specify brand so what showed up was a Truper. This Mexican made POS would have taken hours of grinding to get the head flat and the handle was unuseable. I called Madsen's mad as a wet hen but the sales guy just sighed and said most people just shop price. They told me to keep the Truper, no charge, and the sent me a Council. I also have a 6lb Council with a 36" straight handle which I never use.

Wedges I carry in my back pockets or in a pouch. One belt has suspenders and two pouches,one for a water bottle). The plain belt just has a wedge pouch. Both belts have a first aid pouch. The suspenders belt has an aluminum axe scabbard by Grizzle Peak. BTW I change kind of stuff around all the time.
Grizzly Peak Enterprises - Smelterville Idaho


----------



## Rounder

I'm pretty sure it was 2 inches bigger than Cody's. At least a good foot taller as well. And you saved yours out better. I'll be sure to remind him of the stats...umpkin2:


----------



## 2dogs

Randy I have those vids in my favorites file. Good stuff there. Thanks again.

BTW I block cut anything bigger than 6' . It just makes me feel good.


----------



## dave k

Thanks Randy I'll look at those in the morning, bad signal here at home far better at work which is strange since Im up a small mountain at home and in a woodland at work !

Sam I would have to agree those Stihl wedges ae made of very tough stuff and as such you would expect them to bounce the axe back at you instead of driving in as they do.


----------



## slowp

OK, now I will make trouble. Maybe. What kind of wedges does one use in the GOL class? I should have asked for recommendations at the GTG for GOL ASAP. I really hate acronyms.

I have a few for bucking stuff up and the wedges are the ones from the seconds bin in Madsens. I'm not sure what makes them seconds.


----------



## RandyMac

sweetp, they simply lacked the will to excel.


----------



## Philbert

RandyMac said:


> Here is a baby faced Cody playing with the block-cut.


 
Impressive videos. My guess is that they were not using low kick back chain . . . .?

Philbert


----------



## RandyMac

Philbert said:


> Impressive videos. My guess is that they were not using low kick back chain . . . .?
> 
> Philbert


 
Real men, falling real trees, use real saw-chain.


----------



## bitzer

056 kid said:


> Got into some warm water fish here in VA, few bass, lots of pan fish. i am kiching myself for not bring more gear with me,(its all packed up ready to be moved) once I return to the left side I plan on hooking my first king salmon but that is a big thing. I know NOTHING about the water where Im moving to, I do know that there is plenty of it!
> 
> 
> You got it Boss.


 
Yeah I swear you can never have enough gear and you kick yourself in the ass when you've left behind exactly what you need. I'll be wettin some lines this weekend. First long break from work in a while. I hear Mr. Daniels and the wind through the north woods callin me already!


----------



## bitzer

mtsamloggit said:


> Holy #### balls, I go to work and come back and this thing's still alive.
> 
> Back on topic. That little Stihl wedge is quite the trick piece of equiptment. Had a big cold front blow in today. Last hour of the day of course. Nice fat rotten, uphill leaning fir. That little bastard will drive into anything. Best 5 bucks I've spent in a long time. No...you're not supposed to get pinched......especially when posting on internet forums full of big bad timber fallers......But I'm just a regular faller......and I get pinched......and that little wedge is amazing.
> 
> Bitzer, I like the wedge pouch, seems like a good set up. My pockets are quite stretched. Lol.
> 
> Lots of good info here...but.....ignore button....use it.
> 
> Hope you all are well and busy - Sam



Those wedges really aren't half bad. Anyone who says they never get pinched is fulla ####! 

Thanks! Yeah I'm a nut about keeping stuff on me. Its just a single carpenters pouch I modified. The string leads to my ear plugs case, which also attaches to my glasses that tuck in on the other side. I'd lost a pair or two before I tethered everything. I also have a smaller pouch that clips to my belt on the other side that holds two chains. Works for me.


----------



## Joe46

Well since this thread has taken a few turns, I'll try to take it a little farther of course. Couple of things I haven't seen mentioned are a shovel and and fire kill. When I cut on NF land I always had to pack them in after April 15 or May 15th whenever they deemed fire season was even though most of the time you couldn't have started a fire with a blow torch.


----------



## Rounder

Joe46 said:


> Well since this thread has taken a few turns, I'll try to take it a little farther of course. Couple of things I haven't seen mentioned are a shovel and and fire kill. When I cut on NF land I always had to pack them in after April 15 or May 15th whenever they deemed fire season was even though most of the time you couldn't have started a fire with a blow torch.


 
Joe, we got reamed out for not having shovels and extinguishers in knee deep snow. Reamed. Lol.

It's drier than you'd think out there.........


----------



## Greystoke

I hate wedges...I love tree jacks...and the trees I have used them in


----------



## slowp

mtsamloggit said:


> Joe, we got reamed out for not having shovels and extinguishers in knee deep snow. Reamed. Lol.
> 
> It's drier than you'd think out there.........


 
Must've been somebody trying to get certified because that is just stupid.


----------



## Greystoke

mtsamloggit said:


> I'm pretty sure it was 2 inches bigger than Cody's. At least a good foot taller as well. And you saved yours out better. I'll be sure to remind him of the stats...umpkin2:



Are you hackin on me?...I saved mine out all the way...all 130 feet of it since it was a stob that the old timers left...33 bushel...Yayeah!


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> Are you hackin on me?...I saved mine out all the way...all 130 feet of it since it was a stob that the old timers left...33 bushel...Yayeah!


 
I'm a sucker for a cheap shot.......lol.


----------



## paccity

mtsamloggit said:


> Holy #### balls, I go to work and come back and this thing's still alive.
> 
> Back on topic. That little Stihl wedge is quite the trick piece of equiptment. Had a big cold front blow in today. Last hour of the day of course. Nice fat rotten, uphill leaning fir. That little bastard will drive into anything. Best 5 bucks I've spent in a long time. No...you're not supposed to get pinched......especially when posting on internet forums full of big bad timber fallers......But I'm just a regular faller......and I get pinched......and that little wedge is amazing.
> 
> Bitzer, I like the wedge pouch, seems like a good set up. My pockets are quite stretched. Lol.
> 
> Lots of good info here...but.....ignore button....use it.
> 
> Hope you all are well and busy - Sam


 
gettin more. sam on that rotten sucker did you use a slooping back cut.:msp_razz:


----------



## Rounder

Paccity, as I said, I am not a big bad internet timber faller. Therefore I lack the ability to utilize the sloping backcut in large rotten trees. Given as such, I probably have no bussiness whatsoever in such wood...................................................


----------



## paccity

HA! i'm sure you do just fine.


----------



## 2dogs

slowp said:


> OK, now I will make trouble. Maybe. What kind of wedges does one use in the GOL class? I should have asked for recommendations at the GTG for GOL ASAP. I really hate acronyms.
> 
> I have a few for bucking stuff up and the wedges are the ones from the seconds bin in Madsens. I'm not sure what makes them seconds.


 
For GOL your choice is between ABS and PVC.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

For the most part 6" wedges work for the majority of trees around my neck of the woods. Why criticize something different if you have no knowledge of it and are unwilling to try it:msp_unsure:


----------



## Greenwedge

Greenwedges are terrific! They are also totally affordable and require no axe! I know, I know.....you gota have em......I'm a fan of grass valley 10" and Double Tapers 15 maybe 16" banana wedge. Good tools!


----------



## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> For the most part 6" wedges work for the majority of trees around my neck of the woods. Why criticize something different if you have no knowledge of it and are unwilling to try it:msp_unsure:


 
What species ? hardwood / softwood ? dbh





like shoe gum, just follows ya around


----------



## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> For the most part 6" wedges work for the majority of trees around my neck of the woods. Why criticize something different if you have no knowledge of it and are unwilling to try it:msp_unsure:


 
Did you mean 16"?


----------



## Gologit

mtsamloggit said:


> Paccity, as I said, I am not a big bad internet timber faller. Therefore I lack the ability to utilize the sloping backcut in large rotten trees. Given as such, I probably have no bussiness whatsoever in such wood...................................................


 
Yeah...me either. After all these years and all those snags I found out that I must have been doing it wrong. I never used a "sloping back cut with properly placed wedges". Ever. It's just a damn miracle that I've survived this long and people keep hiring me. :hmm3grin2orange:

I have some real nasty snags to cut pretty soon so maybe I could get Hbrn to draw me a diagram of his special falling technique. Better still, maybe he could come down and fall them for me. I'll sub the contract out to him...just as soon as he gives me some references, proof of insurance, and can show us he has at least one running saw.

It's pretty steep ground, and brushy, with a few snakes and some poison oak. The snags are along an aquaduct so you have to be a little careful of that. But it only takes an hour to pack in...downhill. Packing out is a little longer. I'm sure Hbrn would do just fine.


----------



## madhatte

I wonder if any of my burning snag failures would have gone any smoother had I used the "sloping backcut with properly placed wedges" method?


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> I wonder if any of my burning snag failures would have gone any smoother had I used the "sloping backcut with properly placed wedges" method?


 
Dunno. Not, probably.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Most trees I cut are soft wood. I did not say 16".


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Yeah...me either. After all these years and all those snags I found out that I must have been doing it wrong. I never used a "sloping back cut with properly placed wedges". Ever. It's just a damn miracle that I've survived this long and people keep hiring me. :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> I have some real nasty snags to cut pretty soon so maybe I could get Hbrn to draw me a diagram of his special falling technique. Better still, maybe he could come down and fall them for me. I'll sub the contract out to him...just as soon as he gives me some references, proof of insurance, and can show us he has at least one running saw.
> 
> It's pretty steep ground, and brushy, with a few snakes and some poison oak. The snags are along an aquaduct so you have to be a little careful of that. But it only takes an hour to pack in...downhill. Packing out is a little longer. I'm sure Hbrn would do just fine.


 
i want film of that. you know for educational porpeses. damn can't spell.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

You guys are unbelievable bashing something you know nothing about and never have tried or are wiling to try. This just one of the many cutting styles used to fall trees.


----------



## stihl 440

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Most trees I cut are soft wood. I did not say 16".


 
Ok...that clarifies it...you have no clue....thats all we needed to know....thanks.


----------



## 056 kid

people do what works, just because it is a "technique" does not mean it is worth the idiot who thought it up. . .


----------



## stihl 440

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> You guys are unbelievable bashing something you know nothing about and never have tried or are wiling to try. This just one of the many cutting styles used to fall trees.


 
We dont need to hear anymore of yours....especially for the young bucks on here reading your crap....your gonna get somebody killed...i told you once already...take a hike....get on outta here kid....either that or open your ears and eyes and shut your mouth....learn something sometime....


----------



## stihl 440

056 kid said:


> people do what works, just because it is a "technique" does not mean it is worth the idiot who thought it up. . .


 
Not too much of a technique either....IMO...well i actually believe that is a fact!


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

056 kid said:


> people do what works, just because it is a "technique" does not mean it is worth the idiot who thought it up. . .


 
You just said what I have been try to saying. Not all tree falling styles work. The American tree falling style would be laughed at in Europe, so use what ever you know works. This one job was a really bad nightmare to do limited space and a mushy tree, if I had a man lift to use I would have blocked it down.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

stihl 440 said:


> Ok...that clarifies it...you have no clue....thats all we needed to know....thanks.


 
This kinda of close minded comment that proves to me some people are wiling to learn anything new.


----------



## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Most trees I cut are soft wood. I did not say 16".


 
I didn't either. 

I asked what diameter, mostly.






European style. is that GOL ?


----------



## Greenwedge

You know how when ya feed a pigeon it just keeps getting closer and closer to ya wanting more food, and your just so intent on seeing how close you can get the pigeon to you that you do not realize that it is crapping all over your porch.........Of course you realize that if you quit feeding the fetching pigeon that it will quit coming around, therefore eliminating your poopy porch problem............


----------



## Gologit

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> You guys are unbelievable bashing something you know nothing about and never have tried or are wiling to try. This just one of the many cutting styles used to fall trees.


 
Hey, dummy, I just offered you a snag falling job. See, some people believe that you should have a chance to show us what you can really do. Just send me some references from actual loggers that you've worked for as a faller and proof of insurance and I'll give you an opportunity to put all the bashing to rest. 

I'll make sure everything gets filmed, too. So there won't be any doubts.

Edit...the references have to be from actual loggers or logging companies, under their letterhead. The proof of insurance has to be under the carrier's letterhead. I need these things to satisfy my own liability carrier. 

So...how 'bout it?


----------



## stihl 440

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> This kinda of close minded comment that proves to me some people are wiling to learn anything new.


 
Was this a compliment?....In one sentance you did a 360 on what your inital intention was supposed to be....and thus proves my point.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

lfnh said:


> I didn't either.
> 
> I asked what diameter, mostly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> like shoe gum, just follows ya around


 
Sorry to be snappy,to many stupid people in this world.. I usually do trees around 40"DBH


----------



## stihl 440

Gologit said:


> Hey, dummy, I just offered you a snag falling job. See, some people believe that you should have a chance to show us what you can really do. Just send me some references from actual loggers that you've worked for as a faller and proof of insurance and I'll give you an opportunity to put all the bashing to rest.
> 
> I'll make sure everything gets filmed, too. So there won't be any doubts.
> 
> Edit...the references have to be from actual loggers or logging companies, under their letterhead. The proof of insurance has to be under the carrier's letterhead. I need these things to satisfy my own liability carrier.
> 
> So...how 'bout it?


 
Your gonna have to follow behind him and cut all of his high slanted stumps off...lol


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Gologit said:


> Hey, dummy, I just offered you a snag falling job. See, some people believe that you should have a chance to show us what you can really do. Just send me some references from actual loggers that you've worked for as a faller and proof of insurance and I'll give you an opportunity to put all the bashing to rest.
> 
> I'll make sure everything gets filmed, too. So there won't be any doubts.
> 
> Edit...the references have to be from actual loggers or logging companies, under their letterhead. The proof of insurance has to be under the carrier's letterhead. I need these things to satisfy my own liability carrier.
> 
> So...how 'bout it?


 
Your off your rocker, How about we do this old schoo,l axe chop a 2' DBH and use the tree to drive a stake in the ground , the fastest most accurate tree is the winner.


----------



## Sport Faller

Greenwedge said:


> You know how when ya feed a pigeon it just keeps getting closer and closer to ya wanting more food, and your just so intent on seeing how close you can get the pigeon to you that you do not realize that it is crapping all over your porch.........Of course you realize that if you quit feeding the fetching pigeon that it will quit coming around, therefore eliminating your poopy porch problem............


 
I dunno if he'll leave or not, it might be a little closer to feeding squirrels, at first when you feed him it's kindof funny and cute cause he acts like a zany idiot when you give him attention, however when you quit feeding him he still hangs around, craps on your porch, and tears the stuffing out of your lawn furniture


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

stihl 440 said:


> Your gonna have to follow behind him and cut all of his high slanted stumps off...lol


 Your job is to do all the cleanup work :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 056 kid

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> You just said what I have been try to saying. Not all tree falling styles work. The American tree falling style would be laughed at in Europe, so use what ever you know works. This one job was a really bad nightmare to do limited space and a mushy tree, if I had a man lift to use I would have blocked it down.


 
Oh no, no I meant that people like Gologit or 2dogs along with many others would know all about your sloping technique if it where indeed worth 2 ####s. but its not. I wish I could watch you do that on a "rotten snag", to see that sad look on your face as you you try and pound a wedge in only to have it push wood out of the stump as the tree jarred slightly, hell Id probably laugh if you got hit by a falling stick. . .


----------



## stihl 440

Greenwedge said:


> You know how when ya feed a pigeon it just keeps getting closer and closer to ya wanting more food, and your just so intent on seeing how close you can get the pigeon to you that you do not realize that it is crapping all over your porch.........Of course you realize that if you quit feeding the fetching pigeon that it will quit coming around, therefore eliminating your poopy porch problem............


 
Wise post greenwedge...but i bit my tounge long enough its starting to pain me...hes about to go on ignored list. I would say what i would do if i had to put up with him or a guy like him all day....but i wont.....but you prolly already know anyway.


----------



## OregonSawyer

lfnh...

I see what you did there... :cool2:


----------



## Sport Faller

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Your off your rocker, How about we do this old schoo,l axe chop a 2' DBH and use the tree to drive a stake in the ground , the fastest most accurate tree is the winner.


 
damn Paul Bunyan, that'll be tough to get a slanted back cut with an axe


----------



## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Sorry to be snappy,to many stupid people in this world.. I usually do trees around 40"DBH


 
ok. thanks for the answer.








this is like a run thru the washing machine


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

056 kid said:


> Oh no, no I meant that people like Gologit or 2dogs along with many others would know all about your sloping technique if it where indeed worth 2 ####s. but its not. I wish I could watch you do that on a "rotten snag", to see that sad look on your face as you you try and pound a wedge in only to have it push wood out of the stump as the tree jarred slightly, hell Id probably laugh if you got hit by a falling stick. . .


 
Well this kind of post proves you fail to read peoples post before doing uncalled for bashing:msp_mad:


----------



## stihl 440

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Your job is to do all the cleanup work :hmm3grin2orange:


 
Yea the big red puddle your gonna leave when.......ill stop there...you can imagine the rest. Since your good at imagining.


----------



## 056 kid

Oh shut up you idiot hilbilyrednek


----------



## Gologit

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Your off your rocker, How about we do this old schoo,l axe chop a 2' DBH and use the tree to drive a stake in the ground , the fastest most accurate tree is the winner.


 
Gosh, does that mean you don't want the job? No skills? Or no cojones? I'm giving you a good chance to show us all what a "pro faller" you really are. But, maybe, most of us already know.

Son, you really need to get yourself some mental health therapy. Soon.


----------



## paccity

Greenwedge said:


> You know how when ya feed a pigeon it just keeps getting closer and closer to ya wanting more food, and your just so intent on seeing how close you can get the pigeon to you that you do not realize that it is crapping all over your porch.........Of course you realize that if you quit feeding the fetching pigeon that it will quit coming around, therefore eliminating your poopy porch problem............


 
but pat it's the entertanment value thats so good. plus if ya can get the damn thing close enough you can wring its neck.


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> So...how 'bout it?



Money where your mouth is. Can't argue with that. I'd rep you but I'm out.


----------



## little possum

Just FYI. All my cuts are slanted 


And I am the best axe and wedge carrier around these parts  I just chop stuff up and drive wedges, and run when Im told to. Anybody need some help?


----------



## paccity

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> You just said what I have been try to saying. Not all tree falling styles work. The American tree falling style would be laughed at in Europe, so use what ever you know works. This one job was a really bad nightmare to do limited space and a mushy tree, if I had a man lift to use I would have blocked it down.


 
i don't know about that slopping back cutt thing. a majority of the wood i put onthe ground now is rotten and in tight spots were a screw up is a bad thing. never used that what ever cutt you like so much. just can't wrap my little head around it ? sorry i just can't.


----------



## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> You just said what I have been try to saying. Not all tree falling styles work. The American tree falling style would be laughed at in Europe, so use what ever you know works. This one job was a really bad nightmare to do limited space and a mushy tree, if I had a man lift to use I would have blocked it down.


 
Mushy trees can be tricky.

Certainly not boring....

tricky wedging..





wild roller coaster ride, think i'm going to blow lunch


----------



## Gologit

little possum said:


> Just FYI. All my cuts are slanted
> 
> 
> And I am the best axe and wedge carrier around these parts  I just chop stuff up and drive wedges, and run when Im told to. Anybody need some help?


 
 If we were working together and I said run and you said "huh?" you'd be talking to yourself. The only time you should need to be told to run is the first time. After that you'll figure it out.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

paccity said:


> i don't know about that slopping back cutt thing. a majority of the wood i put onthe ground now is rotten and in tight spots were a screw up is a bad thing. never used that what ever cutt you like so much. just can't wrap my little head around it ? sorry i just can't.


 
I did the job with out a lot my normal equipment, the insurance company for the home owner said to get down asap while evaluating the property. The insurance wanted the tree down that day ,not later:msp_mad: I only had a light 1/2" rope in the truck, figured the sloping back cut would provide some push. The tree was to soft to lift with the wedge so I tried to compensate by using a push and pull method versus jack and pull.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

lfnh said:


> Mushy trees can be tricky.
> 
> Certainly not boring....
> 
> tricky wedging..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wild roller coaster ride, think i'm going to blow lunch


 
The one tre was softer then warm butter


----------



## paccity

and your point is?


----------



## 056 kid

Yea, push. Whats gonna go first a mushy stump or a big log. Don't sneeze, your brain will shoot out. . .


----------



## lfnh

OregonSawyer said:


> lfnh...
> 
> I see what you did there... :cool2:


 
Oh, the axe handle shoulder guard.
Nothing new. just thought some here might be interested.
Rawhide wraps are much strnger and better wearing.






Jack D is looking good right about now. who's buying ?


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Sometimes you have to use what ever is available to get the job done. When a job go's FUBAR you do wht ever it take to sole it.


----------



## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The one tre was softer then warm butter


 
no wedging that kind of stuff.

jacking prolly wouldn't a been an option either. don't know.







i'm hungry. think i'll shoot some pigeons for dinner...


----------



## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Sometimes you have to use what ever is available to get the job done. When a job go's FUBAR you do wht ever it take to sole it.


 
Snags and blow-outs are bad news.
Gotta Look up. gotta cut looking up.
second you take your eyes off it, will be your last second standing
- or breathing.

I'm dead serious about looking up.
No hard hat, go fishing instead.





who the h, is picking up this bar tab tonite. drinks on the house


----------



## little possum

Gologit said:


> If we were working together and I said run and you said "huh?" you'd be talking to yourself. The only time you should need to be told to run is the first time. After that you'll figure it out.


Took me 2 times. But I dont question anybody anymore. First time was a red wasp to the middle of my back. I was still standing there watching my boss run through the scrap yard. Second was the top of a tree... I was supposed to pull the rope, and run. Well I didnt quite run far enough


----------



## 2dogs

paccity said:


> i want film of that. you know for educational porpeses. damn can't spell.


 
educational porpoises...? Now that is taking this thread for a twist. Now you're gonna have Greenpeace following us around. Isn't Earth First bad enough. Oh you hippies.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

lfnh said:


> Snags and blow-outs are bad news.
> Gotta Look up. gotta cut looking up.
> second you take your eyes off it, will be your last second standing
> - or breathing.
> That is the truth, blink wrong and your being zipped into a body bag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who the h, is picking up this bar tab tonite. drinks on the house


 That is the truth, blink wrong and your being zipped into a body bag


----------



## 2dogs

lfnh said:


> no wedging that kind of stuff.
> 
> jacking prolly wouldn't a been an option either. don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm hungry. think i'll shoot some pigeons for dinner...


 
Nope not a jack. Those are for big heavy trees. (Says the guy who doesn't own one and has only used jacks a handful of times.) Best to use a throwline and a rope or an excavator or dozer. Equipment needs to be used VERY gently around rotten trees.


----------



## RandyMac

Jeeze, I put that hick turd on ignore and you-all keep quoting the lousy bastard.

Phhhtttt!!!

I'm headin' the CS forum.


----------



## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Sorry to be snappy,to many stupid people in this world.. I usually do trees around 40"DBH


 
I may be wrong but looking at two of your posts...are you using 6" wedges on 40" trees? A 40" tree may not be huge but it is due alot of respect.


----------



## 1375619cm3

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> That is the truth, blink wrong and your being zipped into a body bag


 
I've Read this whole thread thru from start to end, Hillbilly i don't know you from any-other threads but you have made a total a$$ out of yourself in this one. you have been asked and told many times to shut up and learn something before you get someone injured or killed. there is no sense trying to continue the argument since in almost everyone's minds you have lost your credibility, please pack up what ever cockyness you call pride and move on, no one wants to read anything you have to say here *GOOD BYE*.


----------



## lfnh

2dogs said:


> Nope not a jack. Those are for big heavy trees. (Says the guy who doesn't own one and has only used jacks a handful of times.) Best to use a throwline and a rope or an excavator or dozer. Equipment needs to be used VERY gently around rotten trees.


 
Yup. Excavator - touch it the wrong way and...

Blasting also gotta be really tricky on mushy, rotten snags






we're all goin be needing meds before this thread goes much further.
i like shoting pigeons, though. even at night.


----------



## lfnh

2dogs said:


> I may be wrong but looking at two of your posts...are you using 6" wedges on 40" trees? A 40" tree may not be huge but it is due alot of respect.


 
Well, i was kinda thinking the same thing, but
thought someone else would ask about that first.







geez, didn't mean to piss RandyMac off. I'll buy him one at the bar and all will be good


----------



## paccity

2dogs said:


> educational porpoises...? Now that is taking this thread for a twist. Now you're gonna have greenpeace following us around. Isn't earth first bad enough. Oh you hippies.


 
ha!


----------



## 1375619cm3

I'm a firewood cutter and when necessary take down trees of danger to property i unfortunately do not get to cut trees bigger than 36-40"very often. i carry (2) 5.5 in wedges and (2) 7.5in wedges they work well for me due to the fact of the small diameter of tree all my wedges are of the stihl brand due to availability and price. if i get into a heavy leaner around houses or property i tend to give it a decent pull with a rope and wedge as much as needed to fall in the correct location. in my neck of the woods roping them tends to give that little extra security needed.


----------



## lfnh

2dogs said:


> educational porpoises...? Now that is taking this thread for a twist. Now you're gonna have Greenpeace following us around. Isn't Earth First bad enough. Oh you hippies.


 
Nah, sure don't want Greenpeace hippies infiltrating AS.




things are bad enough as they are. how the heck do you get gum off boot soles? it just sticks there forever. will whiskey work di i ever tell ya about the time i hiked down into a snake infested canyon to clear cut 60 acres of silver maple in one day single handed. no wedges either. no saws. just an old dull axe....?
Well, let me tell ya. when eyes got done, i hiked back out and walked 30 miles in 100 degree heat to an upscale micro-brewery and tried to figure out how a Humboldt and a slanted back cut could work with wedges. Still haven't figured that one out. Yet. but i plan on porting one of them mini-macs. soon. soon as i get me some good used files.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

2dogs said:


> I may be wrong but looking at two of your posts...are you using 6" wedges on 40" trees? A 40" tree may not be huge but it is due alot of respect.


 
The big mothers get the 12" wedges and a few of the small ones for insurance.


----------



## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The big mothers get the 12" wedges and a few of the small ones for insurance.


 
OK good.


----------



## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Sometimes you have to use what ever is available to get the job done. When a job go's FUBAR you do wht ever it take to sole it.


 
Personally, walking away from dangerous trees never got me into trouble.
Flag it and get someone else to have a look.

anywys, back at the bar....
well, after a nice cold one, got to wondering about getting a work saw to replace that old axe. after thinking about it for a while it seems like a ported work saw would go through that slanted back cut alots faster and would keep the butt from going backwards.
yup. seems that'll work real slick. now just gotta figure out that porting thing. Whoops! time to get cleaned up and on my way. Tomorrows a school day!!Well, got up late and missed the bus. Prolly missed a couple of buses...Now I gotta walk to school in those 50 yo boots..


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

I have a healthy respect for big tree. Watched a buddy this winter fall a frozen pondo and the SOBing tree barber chaired and nearly took out the cabin nearby. My buddy is in his 70's and is a retired faller and knows what he was doing, he was shock up as well as the property owner:msp_ohmy: I did not care to see the tree barber chair it brought back bad memories. I was falling timber with my old boss and he did something wrong and the tree we were falling barber chaired on us, he was hit and had both legs fractured in multiple places, I only missed being killed by the slab because of my position off to the side away from my boss:frown:


----------



## paccity

ok . what the heck did i miss?


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

paccity said:


> ok . what the heck did i miss?



Nothing at all:msp_thumbsup:


----------



## dave k

Thanks Randy for the links, I had understood it correctly , more quetions to follow when I can read through again sorting out the good from the bad i.e. HBRN


----------



## RandyMac

yeah Dave, things got pretty mucked up. That form of interference galls me.

I'll be around for a few hours if the weak 'net holds out, been spotty.


----------



## nw axe man

lfnh said:


> Any links to photos of wedges used back in hand felling days ?
> 
> Look at usuall places but may have missed something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..not biting


 
Ifhn, Here's some of my fathers steel that he used to use when falling. He never did any "handfalling" using an axe to chop the undercuts out. Back when he used these wedges he was using a two man saw, usually a Mac or Diston or Mercury. I have some of them hanging in my shop. As you can see by the one pic, they used to use plates to drive the steel between to lift the tree. The pics of the wedges leaning up against the axe are two different kinds. The wider ones were used for bucking wedges and the narrower ones used for falling. They were driven usually by a 12lb double jack or sledge hammer. In the last pic you can see a pic of the first aluminum wedges. They would fall apart pretty easily. However, the object of using them was the weight factor. When falling back in those days they used to work in "sets". This means that one guy would handle the falling chores and one or two guys would buck. When wedging over trees, they would usually wedge in sets also. One would take a swing at the wedges and the other would swing after him. I have on super 8 movie film my father and his brother doing this on a big fir. I've got to get my butt in gear and get those into DVD format. It took me two trips to the woodshed just to pack the few wedges you see here. When they used them in the woods they packed them in gunny sacks. I can remember going out with my dad with that sack hung over his shoulder. They would pack their saws first, then the gas and oil, then they'd go back for the wedges and sledgehammers.
Now, compare that to what we use today. Huge difference, huh?
I also put in a pic of a hand falling axe with a "bent" handle. This was done by hanging the wedges from the end of the axe handle every nite till the desired bend was acquired on the handle. The bend was given so when they cut out the undercuts, they wouldn't bark their knuckles on the tree. Just thought you might be interested in that little fact.


----------



## Gologit

Thanks for posting those pictures. That's what we were using when I first started...big heavy metal wedges packed in a gunny sack. My first year I did all the packing. That really brings back some memories...some good, some not so good. 

I have to beg off on the old oil jug though. I remember seeing some hanging in shops but I never used one or saw one used. I'm not _that_ old...


----------



## dave k

That has worn me out just looking at the pics of those wedges ! Nice detail about the bent axe handle thanks for posting them.


----------



## nw axe man

You're welcome, Bob.

Gentleman,
Years ago, when I was falling for a living, the thing that I realized that one of the things that I most loved about working in the woods was the camaraderie experienced by men doing what they do best. In this case falling and bucking timber. I haven't had experienced that since 1992 when I cut one of the last "big" timber sales. At least, not until I found this site.
I respect a man because he's a man. Some men garner more respect than others simply by the way they behave and exhibit what they believe in the way they live their lives. I see that in this site. I read what each one of you writes and see what each one of you likes by checking the like icon. It tells a lot about a man.
I don't know any of you other than what I read here. However, I can see that there are some men on here that I would have more respect for than others.
It's the same way in the woods. Because a man is a man we give him respect. 
When there is a man on the crew who is behaving badly or can't keep his mouth shut and shows his foolishness for everyone to see, the best tactic is to pay no attention to him. One of two things is going to happen. Either he is going to start thinking about himself and wondering why he gets no respect or he's going to go somewhere else. It always takes two to tango. If there's only one there's no tango.
Yesterday when I left this site it was on page 12. This morning when I got back on it was up to 19. I thought to myself that there's a whole lot of information being shared here. Not so.
Almost all of the pages were dedicated to responding to a person that needs to get a picture of himself. I was disheartened.
I love bantering back and forth with you guys (and women). Like a lot of you, I'm good at what I do. However, it's different in every part of the world and I do appreciate how someone in Norway or Ireland or New Zealand takes care of a job. I don't know it all but I sure do love to hear how it's done somewhere else.
Maybe we could just let the ignorance slip away and communicate with each other on the things we all love to talk about.
Comments?
Most sincerely,
John


----------



## Joe46

Very well said John, and I couldn't agree more. I worked for a comparatively short time as a faller. To this day I still miss "most' everything that went with it. 
I might add the ignore button is our friend.


----------



## Gologit

John, you're right. The best thing about this place is the good people and the exchange of information and experiences. I've learned a lot of things on here that I wouldn't have learned anywhere else.

There's always an ankle biter or a wannabe that tries to throw in with the big boys and impress everybody. In the woods we'd just ignore them or send them off to work by themselves or tie the sack to them.. Your analogy was good...we can do the same thing here. 

Everybody has the guy figured out and it doesn't seem to bother him or make him change his ways. That tells me he's probably incapable of changing for the better. Why do we keeping beating our heads against that particular wall? Not much point to it. Somebody on here said that when you let someone anger you you've also let them control you...smart words.


LOL...I'll try to remember those words next time I feel a riggin fit coming on. :msp_wink:


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

For the average wood cutter a few 6" wedges can be a real help when falling and bucking. I find if you use the wedge early enough there is lees chance of the tree setting back. The brand of wedge is lees critical then having the with you in the woods. Mag wedges are rare to see some one use, the do take a pounding better then the plastic type.


----------



## bitzer

Just backed over my oil pan with the machine I just drained it from, havin a rough morning. Needed to cool off a little and holy crap this thread is still crankin!

Very well said John! Great pics too! Thanks for sharing. Hey in the first pic to the right of the picture of the guy hanging his head that says "monday morning," (great pic I might add!) what is the saw that is hanging off of the tongs for? It has two handles and more like waves instead of teeth. I saw one of those hanging up the other day around here and I was trying to figure it out. Something to do with removing bark? Thanks.

If I ever get a day I'll have to scan a bunch of pics I have out of book about logging in WI. Some really great pics of how it was done back then.


----------



## Semi-Hex

I have only a couple of 6" and more of the 8"ers. I tend to use more wedges than most since the wood here is so dense that the trees tend to sit back due to interlocking branches. They just need a little encouragement to start heading over.


----------



## r&r

I've gotten some of those hi vis green wedges recently and they seem to be really slick and pop out of the cut more often then the orange stihl or woodland pro ones I've used. They were cheap but I won't buy those again no reason to add the increased danger of flying wedges into the tree felling equation.


----------



## 056 kid

how many you got? I'l take them off your hands. .


----------



## r&r

Oh I'm still gonna use 'em just don't like to.


----------



## GRTimberCO

Good post John. 

I don't know anywhere around here that has any old growth still standing. Most everything that is commercially logged is cut with some sort of feller buncher, skidded to the landing and limbed and loaded with a knuckleboom. The few years that I was trying to get my logging business off the ground I was cutting everything with a 385xp, limbing with either the 385 or my 455 rancher, skidding and loading with a big John Deere tractor. I can tell you that probably beats the ox and mule days but it still makes for mighty slow production. Like I've told most folks, I was getting killed trying to keep an ag tractor running in the woods, fuel was up to $2.50 and the wood yards were putting us on quotas. Someone asked if I was interested in selling the tractor. I thought a minute and said, "Yes! Yes I am." It took another six months to sell the old International log truck. I sold the saw a year after that and used most of the money to buy a new Beneli shotgun. I guess I've still got some sawdust left in my veins because I still dabble. Lately I cut with a 372xp and sell a few logs every once in a while. I've got a couple thousand feet of red oak bucked and ready to be loaded and sold in the next couple weeks. 

A couple weeks ago a logger friend of mine and I just about had a deal worked out for me to fell trees for him in the evenings and on weekends based roughly on the “penny inch” concept that Greenwedge suggested. That got shot out of the saddle when Gilkey Lumber Company went to only buying 3 days a week. Maybe it will recover enough in the fall that I can pick up some regular extra work. 

Wedges- Most of our saw logs are in that 20-28" category. I've only cut a handful that went over 3 feet so most of my wedging is insurance against getting pinched. I carry a couple 6 " and a couple 10". I also carry a few different wood ones that are purely sacrificial when I'm not sure if I'm going to get one back or not. I also carry a 2 1/2 pound boy’s axe to drive them because it’s so handy but may see if a heavier one is worth the extra aggravation. 

I appreciate the education you give letting the dabblers like me hang around your campfire and drink a beer with you.


----------



## T_F_E

GRTimberCO said:


> I appreciate the education you give letting the dabblers like me hang around your campfire and drink a beer with you.


 
Well said you learn more by listenin than you do by talkin. I don't say much but appreciate all the good info.


----------



## RandyMac

Thank you expressing yourself John. I feel pretty much the same way.
I lack tolerance, I would rather pop the sobs under the chin than listen to foolishness.
I have never quite learned to walk away.

I packed Ray's stuff, I knew we were in for it, when the steel wedges appeared.
He had two that seemed to be three feet long, that meant lifting something big
backcut first. Ray thoughtfully provided an 8# hammer. I hauled it too.


----------



## nw axe man

RandyMac said:


> Thank you expressing yourself John. I feel pretty much the same way.
> I lack tolerance, I would rather pop the sobs under the chin than listen to foolishness.
> I have never quite learned to walk away.
> 
> I packed Ray's stuff, I knew we were in for it, when the steel wedges appeared.
> He had two that seemed to be three feet long, that meant lifting something big
> backcut first. Ray thoughtfully provided an 8# hammer. I hauled it too.


 
You're welcome, Randy.
You need to get that thing written and done. You keep tantalizing all of us with snippets, getting us all dressed up with no place to go. I think I speak for a lot of guys here regarding your writing.


----------



## nw axe man

madhatte said:


> I remember the '96 flood. Was working out near Boistfort somewhere and couldn't get across 6 to get back to Centralia, ended up taking the 1000 line over from Doty to the far end of Lincoln Creek. It was flooding there, too, but at least I could get across.
> 
> As for axe handles, I have been hanging them so that when the far end of the handle is touching the bench, the head is contacting about 2/3 of the way down. This puts the back of the handle about parallel with the back of the head, which is as it should be. I also prefer the bent "doe's-foot" handles because it puts the weight of the axe a few degrees ahead of the swing when cutting, and a few degrees behind when pounding wedges. I have several, but my favorites are an old Collins 2 1/2# and an old True-Temper 5#, both of which live in my work rig. I like shorter handles most of the time because they're easier to move around with, even though they're more work to use.
> 
> As for wedges -- I like the Madsen's cheapies, especially the seconds, mainly on account of the fact that I kill 'em fast and am probably not actually that good with 'em so there's no point in spending the big bucks on nice ones if I'm just gonna destroy 'em anyway. I carry 4", 8", 10", and 12" in the truck, and will load out the wedge pouch as appropriate. I have a couple of the triple-tapers and don't really like 'em -- by the time you get back to the sharper slope, you're not lifting much any more, at least in softwood. I can guess that they might be more useful in hardwoods.
> 
> HBRN: chill, man. Serious.


 Alright, Nate. You didn't ask about my story about the Strohs axe head so I'm obliged to tell you.
It was during the flood of 96 that was so bad in the PNW. You mentioned that you remembered it.
I had a friend of mine call me from up in the Cispus valley. Said that the Cispus was eating away his land and that there were two nice cedars that were slipping into the drink. He asked if I would come up and get them down onto his property away from the river. They had a fairly good lean over it.
I stuck a draw notch in the first one using a 066 with a 42" bar. Nice cedar about 5 1/2' on the butt. I was using a brand new pair of Madsens cotton gloves and was proceeding to take up the slack by setting up the wedges. I tapped three 12" wedges into the tree before I started putting the beef to good use. The river was about 5' behind me and running hard. Just a little bit spooky.
I reared back the axe to make the first swing with my new shiny Madsens gloves and that axe slipped right through my fingers and went out about 40' into the flooding Cispus River. All I could do was stand there and look at the guy and laugh. He went to his shop and got a splitting maul that I used to wedge both trees over. That was when I found out that I really like having an axe that is designed for wedging use.
Later on that summer he called me up and wanted to come see me. When he came down he handed me that axe. I never thought I'd see it again. He had spotted it in the river when it went down, rigged up a "gig" pole, to use a term I didn't know about until this thread, stuck a piece of 9 wire on it and retrieved it. I still have it and use it with the same handle.


----------



## Sport Faller

nw axe man said:


> Alright, Nate. You didn't ask about my story about the Strohs axe head so I'm obliged to tell you.
> It was during the flood of 96 that was so bad in the PNW. You mentioned that you remembered it.
> I had a friend of mine call me from up in the Cispus valley. Said that the Cispus was eating away his land and that there were two nice cedars that were slipping into the drink. He asked if I would come up and get them down onto his property away from the river. They had a fairly good lean over it.
> I stuck a draw notch in the first one using a 066 with a 42" bar. Nice cedar about 5 1/2' on the butt. I was using a brand new pair of Madsens cotton gloves and was proceeding to take up the slack by setting up the wedges. I tapped three 12" wedges into the tree before I started putting the beef to good use. The river was about 5' behind me and running hard. Just a little bit spooky.
> I reared back the axe to make the first swing with my new shiny Madsens gloves and that axe slipped right through my fingers and went out about 40' into the flooding Cispus River. All I could do was stand there and look at the guy and laugh. He went to his shop and got a splitting maul that I used to wedge both trees over. That was when I found out that I really like having an axe that is designed for wedging use.
> Later on that summer he called me up and wanted to come see me. When he came down he handed me that axe. I never thought I'd see it again. He had spotted it in the river when it went down, rigged up a "gig" pole, to use a term I didn't know about until this thread, stuck a piece of 9 wire on it and retrieved it. I still have it and use it with the same handle.


 
nice, I bet the head wasn't too loose after sitting in the river for a couple months


----------



## madhatte

nw axe man said:


> Alright, Nate. You didn't ask about my story about the Strohs axe head so I'm obliged to tell you.


 
That right there is a good tale of good fortune. I approve!


----------



## Rounder

Switched to this setup this year, got tired of stuffing my beater in the back of my belt. A pain in the butt, literally.

View attachment 189077


This is much better. The harness and scabbard came from a little company over in Smelterville, Id. They make a lot of nice stuff for fallers. 

That is the famous tape nail that Cody likes to speak of on the end of the tape. Works good.

I'm not too picky about wedge brand. Don't really need anything over ten inches around here. Like I said before, I really like the 7.5" Stihl wedges when a tree spits a wedge. They can really go where no other wedge can.

The axe has a 3 pound head, which suits me just fine

A little off topic (not that it probably matters here, lol), but I bought myself a new pair of Viberg Calks after work today. I wish everything was made as well as those boots.

Take care - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Switched to this setup this year, got tired of stuffing my beater in the back of my belt. A pain in the butt, literally.
> 
> View attachment 189077
> 
> 
> This is much better. The harness and scabbard came from a little company over in Smelterville, Id. They make a lot of nice stuff for fallers.
> 
> That is the famous tape nail that Cody likes to speak of on the end of the tape. Works good.
> 
> I'm not too picky about wedge brand. Don't really need anything over ten inches around here. Like I said before, I really like the 7.5" Stihl wedges when a tree spits a wedge. They can really go where no other wedge can.
> 
> The axe has a 3 pound head, which suits me just fine
> 
> A little off topic (not that it probably matters here, lol), but I bought myself a new pair of Viberg Calks after work today. I wish everything was made as well as those boots.
> 
> Take care - Sam


 
nice, i like the barberpole handle, have your feet started begging for mercy yet 

can we get a close up of the tape nail?


----------



## JMarshall

Sam- I own a few pairs of Vibergs, they are unreal eh? Takes a bit to break 'em in but once ya do they are deadly, grease them often and they will last for a loonng time.


----------



## 8433jeff

I don't know much, but I have had the good sense to keep my mouth shut when experience speaks. Thanks for the lessons.


----------



## lfnh

nw axe man, 
Very interesting to see the 'feathers' wedge set.

What is the length of the longest falling wedge ? (with out going to the woodshed..)

Appreciate your time to put the photos together for this thread.


----------



## Rounder

Jake, I'll snap a pick of the nail this weekend. Pretty slick in lodgepole/piss fir.

The Vibergs should be fine. I've got some ugly feet that got that way from leathers, lol


----------



## 2dogs

mtsamloggit said:


> Switched to this setup this year, got tired of stuffing my beater in the back of my belt. A pain in the butt, literally.
> 
> View attachment 189077
> 
> 
> This is much better. The harness and scabbard came from a little company over in Smelterville, Id. They make a lot of nice stuff for fallers.
> 
> That is the famous tape nail that Cody likes to speak of on the end of the tape. Works good.
> 
> I'm not too picky about wedge brand. Don't really need anything over ten inches around here. Like I said before, I really like the 7.5" Stihl wedges when a tree spits a wedge. They can really go where no other wedge can.
> 
> The axe has a 3 pound head, which suits me just fine
> 
> A little off topic (not that it probably matters here, lol), but I bought myself a new pair of Viberg Calks after work today. I wish everything was made as well as those boots.
> 
> Take care - Sam


 
That is the gear I use. I referenced it and provided a link a few pages back. Good stuff.


----------



## mdavlee

Some good info here along with some junk. The most used wedges I've got are the 6" and 8" K&H. They seem to be cast in the same mold as the stihl brand ones but they're a little cheaper from madsens than the local place. I do have pairs of 10" and 12" but I don't see needing them as most stuff around is less than 40" or so that I will be cutting. The sloping back cut works on 2" dbh great!


----------



## flushcut

Wow, what a good thread I just read through the whole thing aside form some banter with an idiot.


----------



## Rounder

2dogs said:


> That is the gear I use. I referenced it and provided a link a few pages back. Good stuff.


 Oops, must of missed that, I've skipped over a fair bit of this thread, lol. And yes, good stuff for sure.


----------



## stihl 440

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The one tre was softer then warm butter


 
Thanks for the negative rep JO.....im sure you will get some more form the other guys that read this......your intellegence on anything that has to do with forestry/logging/chainsaws is less than adequate.

Im done with your Re*****d A$$.....ignore....


----------



## nw axe man

bitzer said:


> Just backed over my oil pan with the machine I just drained it from, havin a rough morning. Needed to cool off a little and holy crap this thread is still crankin!
> 
> Very well said John! Great pics too! Thanks for sharing. Hey in the first pic to the right of the picture of the guy hanging his head that says "monday morning," (great pic I might add!) what is the saw that is hanging off of the tongs for? It has two handles and more like waves instead of teeth. I saw one of those hanging up the other day around here and I was trying to figure it out. Something to do with removing bark? Thanks.
> 
> If I ever get a day I'll have to scan a bunch of pics I have out of book about logging in WI. Some really great pics of how it was done back then.


 I believe it's an ice saw. That's what I've been told anyway. Kind of an interesting piece anyway. That wall is my favorite wall. Those pictures have been hanging there since 1968. My dad put them up. Eldin Olin was the artist and did quite a few of them. Hope your day went better after the oil pan incident.


----------



## nw axe man

bigskyjake said:


> nice, I bet the head wasn't too loose after sitting in the river for a couple months


 
No, Jake, that head it still just as tight as it was the day I hung it. Probably rusted in there.


----------



## nw axe man

madhatte said:


> That right there is a good tale of good fortune. I approve!


 
I agree, Nate. I never thought I'd see that axe again. Does make for a good story. Again, one of those stupid things a guy does that comes out better in the end. I wish all of those kinds of things came out that way.
By the way, after haying season is done, I have those trees in Rochester. I'll try to give you some lead time.


----------



## nw axe man

mtsamloggit said:


> Switched to this setup this year, got tired of stuffing my beater in the back of my belt. A pain in the butt, literally.
> 
> View attachment 189077
> 
> 
> This is much better. The harness and scabbard came from a little company over in Smelterville, Id. They make a lot of nice stuff for fallers.
> 
> That is the famous tape nail that Cody likes to speak of on the end of the tape. Works good.
> 
> I'm not too picky about wedge brand. Don't really need anything over ten inches around here. Like I said before, I really like the 7.5" Stihl wedges when a tree spits a wedge. They can really go where no other wedge can.
> 
> The axe has a 3 pound head, which suits me just fine
> 
> A little off topic (not that it probably matters here, lol), but I bought myself a new pair of Viberg Calks after work today. I wish everything was made as well as those boots.
> 
> Take care - Sam


Pardon my ignorance, Sam. What's the function of the leather in the pic? Also, do the CCI Blazers go out with you, too?


----------



## nw axe man

lfnh said:


> nw axe man,
> Very interesting to see the 'feathers' wedge set.
> 
> What is the length of the longest falling wedge ? (with out going to the woodshed..)
> 
> Appreciate your time to put the photos together for this thread.


 
I believe the longest wedge is about 16-17". That's allowing for not going to the wood shed to measure, of course. I'm glad you appreciated the pics. I'm just glad I don't have to use them. I can still remember in my minds eye my dad and his brother sweating buckets of sweat swinging those 12lb double jacks. That steel didn't appear to be moving very quickly into the tree if I remember right. Plastic is the ticket for sure.


----------



## lfnh

nw axe man said:


> I believe the longest wedge is about 16-17". That's allowing for not going to the wood shed to measure, of course. I'm glad you appreciated the pics. I'm just glad I don't have to use them. I can still remember in my minds eye my dad and his brother sweating buckets of sweat swinging those 12lb double jacks. That steel didn't appear to be moving very quickly into the tree if I remember right. Plastic is the ticket for sure.


 
Thanks. Picture tricked me. I can imagine the weight in that gunny sack.

Used a two man saw opposite my dad cutting wood for heat - similar to the one at top of your photo. Still have that two man.
Cut loose stacked hay with one like yours on the right side of your picture. Loose stack is a poor term as the stack packs down very tight.
Long time ago. Nice looking at those tools.

btw, the offside handles kept back of your hands from getting all barked up by the cut side hay (stub ends).


----------



## 2dogs

bitzer said:


> Just backed over my oil pan with the machine I just drained it from, havin a rough morning. Needed to cool off a little and holy crap this thread is still crankin!
> 
> Very well said John! Great pics too! Thanks for sharing. Hey in the first pic to the right of the picture of the guy hanging his head that says "monday morning," (great pic I might add!) what is the saw that is hanging off of the tongs for? It has two handles and more like waves instead of teeth. I saw one of those hanging up the other day around here and I was trying to figure it out. Something to do with removing bark? Thanks.
> 
> If I ever get a day I'll have to scan a bunch of pics I have out of book about logging in WI. Some really great pics of how it was done back then.


 
Yeah that is a hay knife. I've also heard it called a hay saw. I'd bet there is more hay stuff around.


----------



## madhatte

nw axe man said:


> By the way, after haying season is done, I have those trees in Rochester. I'll try to give you some lead time.



Excellent. I have hay fields on 3 sides of my house, which are actually looking pretty nice in spite of the weird weather this year, so I guess a few days after they finish the annual grass orgy, I'll be looking for a PM. Lookin' forward to it!


----------



## OregonSawyer

nw axe man said:


> I believe it's an ice saw. That's what I've been told anyway. Kind of an interesting piece anyway. That wall is my favorite wall. Those pictures have been hanging there since 1968. My dad put them up. Eldin Olin was the artist and did quite a few of them. Hope your day went better after the oil pan incident.


 
Pardon the aside, but do you have any more info on Eldin Olin? That happens to be my mothers maiden name and I don't believe it is _that_ common. Wondering if there is any connection...


----------



## Joe46

OregonSawyer said:


> Pardon the aside, but do you have any more info on Eldin Olin? That happens to be my mothers maiden name and I don't believe it is _that_ common. Wondering if there is any connection...


 Just Googled Eldin Olin. There is a short bio of him with a couple of pictures. Check it out. Also if I'm not mistaken they use to put some of his stuff in Loggers World back in the day. Maybe NW Axe Man can correct me on that.


----------



## nw axe man

Joe46 said:


> Just Googled Eldin Olin. There is a short bio of him with a couple of pictures. Check it out. Also if I'm not mistaken they use to put some of his stuff in Loggers World back in the day. Maybe NW Axe Man can correct me on that.


 
You're right on, Joe.
Finley Hayes, the founder/owner/editor of Loggers World, and Eldin Olin were good friends and I remember seeing his work in there a lot. I've gotten Loggers World since the mid 70s and still get it. They put Loggers World and Truckers World in the same edition since postage is so expensive.
I started bucking in the summer of 1971. Back then if you got your picture in Loggers World you considered yourself most fortunate. In February of 1972, when I was a senior, my dad had a real nice sale up the NF of the Cispus River. Nice old growth and Finley wanted to come up and do an article on my dads crew. Of course, I found out about it and felt real bad since I was in school. Anway, I asked my dad if I could come out and buck for him that day in the snow. There was about 4-5 feet of snow and you had to shovel out the snow around the stumps to get down to that miracle 1' high stump that was required. He said yes so I got my pic in Loggers World for the first time. I have two pictures hanging in my house of my dad and I that Finley took of my dad falling a nice fir. As a matter of fact, you can see it on the Madsens album site. Anyway, needless to say I felt 10 feet tall when I went back to school. Especially when I showed them the article. Finley did a total of 4 articles on our crews over the years. Now Mike Crouse owns the paper and runs it. They still print some of the old articles Finley wrote in the new papers. If I can remember I'll contact Mike and see if he has any info on Eldin Olin. I have a strong disconnect from my home to the office and the memory doesn't work like it should.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Turns out he lives only about 20 min up river... Hmmm... Might need to give grandma a quick visit.


----------



## nw axe man

lfnh said:


> Thanks. Picture tricked me. I can imagine the weight in that gunny sack.
> 
> Used a two man saw opposite my dad cutting wood for heat - similar to the one at top of your photo. Still have that two man.
> Cut loose stacked hay with one like yours on the right side of your picture. Loose stack is a poor term as the stack packs down very tight.
> Long time ago. Nice looking at those tools.
> 
> btw, the offside handles kept back of your hands from getting all barked up by the cut side hay (stub ends).


 
Thanks for the info on the "hay Knife". I guess the guys that told me about it being an ice knife didn't know what they were talking about. Since it's corroborated here by several of you I'll take that as what it is. Now I'm edumacated. Thanks.


----------



## nw axe man

OregonSawyer said:


> Turns out he lives only about 20 min up river... Hmmm... Might need to give grandma a quick visit.


 
Keep me posted on that one. I'd be interested to know.


----------



## OregonSawyer

nw axe man said:


> You're right on, Joe.
> Finley Hayes, the founder/owner/editor of Loggers World, and Eldin Olin were good friends and I remember seeing his work in there a lot. I've gotten Loggers World since the mid 70s and still get it. They put Loggers World and Truckers World in the same edition since postage is so expensive.
> I started bucking in the summer of 1971. Back then if you got your picture in Loggers World you considered yourself most fortunate. In February of 1972, when I was a senior, my dad had a real nice sale up the NF of the Cispus River. Nice old growth and Finley wanted to come up and do an article on my dads crew. Of course, I found out about it and felt real bad since I was in school. Anway, I asked my dad if I could come out and buck for him that day in the snow. There was about 4-5 feet of snow and you had to shovel out the snow around the stumps to get down to that miracle 1' high stump that was required. He said yes so I got my pic in Loggers World for the first time. I have two pictures hanging in my house of my dad and I that Finley took of my dad falling a nice fir. As a matter of fact, you can see it on the Madsens album site. Anyway, needless to say I felt 10 feet tall when I went back to school. Especially when I showed them the article. Finley did a total of 4 articles on our crews over the years. Now Mike Crouse owns the paper and runs it. They still print some of the old articles Finley wrote in the new papers. If I can remember I'll contact Mike and see if he has any info on Eldin Olin. I have a strong disconnect from my home to the office and the memory doesn't work like it should.


 
Great story, as usual.

Maybe you should start writing up a book of your own. Guys like yourself, Randy and Bob are becoming fewer and further between. It would be awesome to keep all the great stories alive for more generations to enjoy!


----------



## nw axe man

OregonSawyer said:


> Great story, as usual.
> 
> Maybe you should start writing up a book of your own. Guys like yourself, Randy and Bob are becoming fewer and further between. It would be awesome to keep all the great stories alive for more generations to enjoy!


I've though of that. Thank you for putting me in the same category as Randy and Bob. I take that as a compliment. I do have the stories but am not sure I have the writing capabilities that Randy has. Every time he puts one of those snippets on a post I want to hear more.


----------



## Joe46

Thanks NW. I've been reading LW since I think 74. Subscribed to it and Log Trucker sometime in the late 70's. I 'think" I saw Finley mention one time he had a paper out on just cutters? Again I'll await your knowledge on the subject. My remembory doesn't work so good anymore.


----------



## nw axe man

Joe46 said:


> Thanks NW. I've been reading LW since I think 74. Subscribed to it and Log Trucker sometime in the late 70's. I 'think" I saw Finley mention one time he had a paper out on just cutters? Again I'll await your knowledge on the subject. My remembory doesn't work so good anymore.


 
Again, you're right on. Can't remember if it was called Timber Cutter or Timber Faller but he did have it out. He did an article on my dads crew in 71 and 78. He also did one in 81 when my dad and I were contracting in the blast area if my "remembory" serves me correctly.
Well, boys, gotta go sit down all day. All of you have a good one. At least the sun is shining and supposed to shine most of the weekend. Good for the garden.


----------



## dancan

mtsamloggit said:


> Switched to this setup this year, got tired of stuffing my beater in the back of my belt. A pain in the butt, literally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is much better. The harness and scabbard came from a little company over in Smelterville, Id. They make a lot of nice stuff for fallers.
> 
> That is the famous tape nail that Cody likes to speak of on the end of the tape. Works good.
> 
> I'm not too picky about wedge brand. Don't really need anything over ten inches around here. Like I said before, I really like the 7.5" Stihl wedges when a tree spits a wedge. They can really go where no other wedge can.
> 
> The axe has a 3 pound head, which suits me just fine
> 
> A little off topic (not that it probably matters here, lol), but I bought myself a new pair of Viberg Calks after work today. I wish everything was made as well as those boots.
> 
> Take care - Sam



Here on the under privileged "LEast" Coast we don't have a lot of large trees left so it is not often that we need large wedges but occasionally a 7" or 10" is needed , most of the time a 5" or a felling leaver will do .
After beating on wedges available around here over the last few years I've found (as others have stated) that the Stihl's seem to last the best .
Nice pic Sam .
Since I joined this site a few years ago I have kept my eyes open to thing that could make my life easier or more efficient when I'm working in "my" forestry division and have adapted a lot of things from different regions to make life easier (some not) .
One of these things has been my axe scabbard that I made after seeing a few pics here .
I carry one wedge in it and the rest in a pouch .
The axe is about 2lbs with a 24" handle which doubles up a a measuring stick if I forget my tape , the harness is made from a discarded fall protection harness .







This works for me in the things that I do , your mileage may vary .
Many thanks to all you picture posters !


----------



## Greystoke

bigskyjake said:


> nice, i like the barberpole handle, have your feet started begging for mercy yet
> 
> can we get a close up of the tape nail?


 

Here ya go pard:










Those nails rule, specially when bushelin...not havin to wait around for your tape to come in...actually have to slow er down a little to keep it from comin back and stabbin ya! They are way too sharp at first as the sharp point bends the first time you plug it into somethin hard, but just take a flflat file to it and make it a little more blunt and she works great. The way they make tapes anymore with the weak ass springs, you gotta lighten up your tape any way you can. I bought a hundred of these for $.25 cents a piece from John Day Riggin in Oregon. Not sure if they still make em, but they are worth havin.


----------



## Greystoke

nw axe man said:


> Pardon my ignorance, Sam. What's the function of the leather in the pic? Also, do the CCI Blazers go out with you, too?


 
They go around your shoulders like a horse collar. Straps on front and back kinda like spenders that hook to your wedge belt to take the weight off your hips, specially when packin a fallin axe. Also serve as shoulder pads when packin your saw on your shoulder.


----------



## Rounder

What he said. The shoulder pads are really nice. It'd be tough to punch a dog through on of those.

Cody ain't kidding about being carefull with those tape nails. Got in a big hurry to tie into the road, falling/bucking big ugly fir. Popped that bugger loose and next thing I know it's stuck in my forearm, lol. Didn't make the road anyways.....I may never learn. 

Happy 4th of July weekend all - Sam


----------



## wowzers

I was working on the landing the other day bucking a white fir, and did the same thing. Thing drilled me in the collar bone.


----------



## madhatte

tarzanstree said:


> The way they make tapes anymore with the weak ass springs, you gotta lighten up your tape any way you can.



The current generation of Spencers is seriously lacking. First of all, they're not a Seattle company any more; they're owned by US Tape out of PA. Second, as noted before, the quality of steel in the rewind spring is considerably lower than in the past. Third, the gears are made of some cast powdered alloy rather than steel, which is why they eat teeth so much more than they used to. The reels are made of thinner material, as is the gear at the bottom of them. Today's Spencers only superficially resemble the older ones. I have a 50' manufactured in '93 and a 75' from '96 and the parts are totally incompatible with new ones. What I do now for the pile I maintain for my crew is to keep rebuild parts on hand for at least ten rebuilds, as we easily mangle that many of something in a season. I tune 'em to come up tight at least a couple feet before the end of the tape so it's hard to walk off the end of it, and that helps some, but they're still fundamentally a less-tough tool than they used to be.

EDIT: oh, and I talked to the rep at US Tape and he tells me that he's "shocked" to hear that the pot-metal gears were breaking, and could I please collect a few and send them in for failure analysis? I've got a pile ready to go. Maybe they'll revert to steel? I hope so.


----------



## T_F_E

madhatte said:


> The current generation of Spencers is seriously lacking. First of all, they're not a Seattle company any more; they're owned by US Tape out of PA. Second, as noted before, the quality of steel in the rewind spring is considerably lower than in the past. Third, the gears are made of some cast powdered alloy rather than steel, which is why they eat teeth so much more than they used to. The reels are made of thinner material, as is the gear at the bottom of them. Today's Spencers only superficially resemble the older ones. I have a 50' manufactured in '93 and a 75' from '96 and the parts are totally incompatible with new ones. What I do now for the pile I maintain for my crew is to keep rebuild parts on hand for at least ten rebuilds, as we easily mangle that many of something in a season. I tune 'em to come up tight at least a couple feet before the end of the tape so it's hard to walk off the end of it, and that helps some, but they're still fundamentally a less-tough tool than they used to be.
> 
> EDIT: oh, and I talked to the rep at US Tape and he tells me that he's "shocked" to hear that the pot-metal gears were breaking, and could I please collect a few and send them in for failure analysis? I've got a pile ready to go. Maybe they'll revert to steel? I hope so.


 
I sure hope so too.

And since we really cant get anymore off topic, today a forester came in to inspect our next job and found a "pacific yew". I havent heard of these before but from what I can tell its pretty much just a bushy low and slow growing tree. Its only about 4 foot tall and about 3 inches in diameter. Anyway we arent allowed to cut within 50 feet of this bush. Has anyone heard of this before? Theres a link below with some info about it but thats about all I can dig up.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=21308#axzz1QtPx1DeM


----------



## Rounder

Well #### it, since we are vearing off course anyways.....I've been meaning to ask?

Anyone tried the Woodlandpro, or Husky tapes? I've not got much use for the new Spencer I bought. - Sam


----------



## madhatte

T_F_E said:


> today a forester came in to inspect our next job and found a "pacific yew".



Pacific Yew (_Taxus brevifolia_) was big news a few years ago when it was discovered that a chemical in it, Taxol, was useful in fighting breast cancer. For a time yew was badly over-harvested, but that's stopped because the Taxol is now synthesized. Yews grow very slowly. The wood is hard, and is historically important as the material used in the construction of longbows. You'll see them throughout the Northwest as solitary trees, but seldom as a population. The little red "berries" aren't edible. They're also not berries. They're actually a kind of weird cone. Family Taxaceae is a weird one genetically as they look more like pines than cedars, but they're more closely related to the latter than the former. The biggest Yew I've seen was about 30" DBH and probably 50' tall. I'm guessing it was at least 300 years old, based on the few I've drilled.


----------



## RandyMac

I saw Yews in the Klamaths, to the untrained eye, they can resemble redwood shrubs.

The limbs can make excellent bows, leading to today's bit of historical fact or fiction.

In vulgar vernacular "#### you!" came from the English. During one of the little tiffs the English had with the French, The English Bowmen reigned supreme using Yew wood bows. They were so good, that when captured, the French cut off the middle finger, that was used to draw the string, without which it is impossible to draw the renowned English longbow. So the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking yew". Thus, when the victorious English waved their middle fingers at the defeated French, they said, "See, we can still pluck yew! PLUCK YEW!"


----------



## nw axe man

madhatte said:


> Pacific Yew (_Taxus brevifolia_) was big news a few years ago when it was discovered that a chemical in it, Taxol, was useful in fighting breast cancer. For a time yew was badly over-harvested, but that's stopped because the Taxol is now synthesized. Yews grow very slowly. The wood is hard, and is historically important as the material used in the construction of longbows. You'll see them throughout the Northwest as solitary trees, but seldom as a population. The little red "berries" aren't edible. They're also not berries. They're actually a kind of weird cone. Family Taxaceae is a weird one genetically as they look more like pines than cedars, but they're more closely related to the latter than the former. The biggest Yew I've seen was about 30" DBH and probably 50' tall. I'm guessing it was at least 300 years old, based on the few I've drilled.


 
We have some populations, and I do mean populations of that stuff up here. In places it grows so thick it'll tear the shirt off your back. Nasty stuff to cut around. They had several sales above my home that they would hire helicapeters to come in and fly bundles out of the woods. Like Madhatte said though, after they synthesized the Taxol that ended.
Brings up a story about how powerful the wood is. In 78 my partner had just started a new job in about 4' of snow. After the first few hours I didn't hear his saw so hollered over to him, "Hey, you alright"? He answered "I think I cut myself". You can imagine what I was thinking. How do you "think" you cut yourself.
Anyway, I went over to where he was and it looked like someone had thrown a bucket of blood on that snow. He was sitting there with his head in his bloody hands looking miserable. His hard hat was about 70 feet away with a huge indentation in the front of it. I took his hands down and he had two 2 1/2" cuts at an angle on his forehead from the right to left clear to the skull. We didn't hang around but went down to the country doctor.
The doc went in to clean up the cut and called me in to take a look. I went in and you could see his skull where each tooth from the left and right side of the chain had taken out "bone shavings" from his skull. I had to sit down right away.
He had falled a hemlock about 20" and it had skidded down the hill and pulled over about a 3" yew wood which put it under pressure. He revved up his saw to cut it off and it blew up on him sending the saw into his forehead and flinging his hardhat about 70' away. If he hadn't had that hardhat on the chain would have gone into his head like a mushmellon. This was also in the days before the anti kick back devices on the saws.
We have a lot of yew wood here in Eastern Lewis county. It's incredibly beautiful wood, kind of a peachy color with a bright white sap wood. Makes incredible lumber if you can get it big enough to mill some boards. Like Mad said, it's harder than the hubs of h### and very resilient. The largest yew wood in the world is here in this county about 10 miles from my home. It's listed in the big trees book. Sorry for the ramble.


----------



## RandyMac

Ramble on.


----------



## Philbert

RandyMac said:


> The limbs can make excellent bows, leading to today's bit of historical fact or fiction.
> 
> In vulgar vernacular "#### you!" came from the English.


 
No way I know of to validate that, but it's best explanation I've heard so far. Would rep you if I could.

Philbert


----------



## madhatte

Ramble on, indeed! I've worked on Champion and Weyerhauser land in East Lewis County, but I've never seen a stand of Yew. That would be a sight. I've swam through an understory made entirely of OG Rhododendron, often 15 feet or so off the ground. I've found Sitka Spruce and Lodgepole Pine together in an alluvial valley over 100 miles from the coast. I've measured Alders almost twice as tall as the top end of the Site Index curves, but I've never found more than two or three Yew to an acre. I guess that's one of the things I like best about working in the woods -- there's always something new and weird out there around the next bend. It never gets old, and even if it started to, the seasons keep changing, and therefore so does the work. I don't see myself doing anything different for a living any time soon. 'Course, I'll quit soon as it stops being fun, but I don't see that happening, either.


----------



## 2dogs

Yew is often planted around gov't buildings like police stations and firehouses. All parts of the plant are poisonous, very poisonous.


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## paccity

no ramble at all! it's way better than the boob tube. carry on sir.


----------



## nw axe man

madhatte said:


> Ramble on, indeed! I've worked on Champion and Weyerhauser land in East Lewis County, but I've never seen a stand of Yew. That would be a sight. I've swam through an understory made entirely of OG Rhododendron, often 15 feet or so off the ground. I've found Sitka Spruce and Lodgepole Pine together in an alluvial valley over 100 miles from the coast. I've measured Alders almost twice as tall as the top end of the Site Index curves, but I've never found more than two or three Yew to an acre. I guess that's one of the things I like best about working in the woods -- there's always something new and weird out there around the next bend. It never gets old, and even if it started to, the seasons keep changing, and therefore so does the work. I don't see myself doing anything different for a living any time soon. 'Course, I'll quit soon as it stops being fun, but I don't see that happening, either.


 
Some of the drainages that have yew in abundance are the Silvercreek drainage, the Yellowjacket drainage, the Quartz Creed drainage and the McCoy creek drainage. I can show you where there's so many it's just like reprod. The Silvercreek drainage has the worlds largest one. I think the FS kind of hid the location from the road as they were afraid that someone would go down and cut it. I've also run into a lot of it on the NF of the Tilton way up at the headwaters. It seems that when an area with a few yew woods were clear cut they came back in force.
I've worked in those Rhodys up on the peninsula before and never did take a liking to them either. Nice to look at when they're in bloom but a pain to cut in.


----------



## hammerlogging

yeah we have them here too, agreed, not much fun


----------



## madhatte

nw axe man said:


> I can show you where there's so many it's just like reprod.



From the description, it sounds like their abundance is tied closely to elevation. Maybe aspect too? I know they favor the shade, perhaps these drainages have a northern aspect? 2500 ft +/- 500 ft? Got me thinkin'.


----------



## nw axe man

madhatte said:


> From the description, it sounds like their abundance is tied closely to elevation. Maybe aspect too? I know they favor the shade, perhaps these drainages have a northern aspect? 2500 ft +/- 500 ft? Got me thinkin'.


 Interesting. I wouldn't have thought of elevation or aspect.
Now that think about it most of the thickest patches are on south aspects that were heavily timbered. The elevation bands that I've seen most of them in are around the 2500' mark. I can think of one other that has a northeast aspect that has some really nice trees in it. Good observation.


----------



## little possum

I searched high and low today for a good old axe and felling wedges at the "redneck" convention (antique tractor show) But found nothing but rusty ol junk  I wanted something to show off here. I think a axe collection will be next on my list.


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## madhatte

nw axe man said:


> Good observation.



Thank you. I always try to figure out the context of the weird stuff, so I know where to look for similar things elsewhere. This just gave me another thing to keep an eye on.


----------



## T_F_E

The one i found was at about 2400 feet right in the middle of a group of second growth hemlock


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> Thank you. I always try to figure out the context of the weird stuff, so I know where to look for similar things elsewhere. This just gave me another thing to keep an eye on.


 
yup, thinkin all the time. lol.


----------



## Sport Faller

tarzanstree said:


> Here ya go pard:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those nails rule, specially when bushelin...not havin to wait around for your tape to come in...actually have to slow er down a little to keep it from comin back and stabbin ya! They are way too sharp at first as the sharp point bends the first time you plug it into somethin hard, but just take a flflat file to it and make it a little more blunt and she works great. The way they make tapes anymore with the weak ass springs, you gotta lighten up your tape any way you can. I bought a hundred of these for $.25 cents a piece from John Day Riggin in Oregon. Not sure if they still make em, but they are worth havin.


 
thanks buddy, that's pretty cool, how does it fit in to the collar on the end of thet tape, do you have to take it apart and re rivet it?


----------



## dave k

On the Yew, yes Randy is correct about the French cutting off the fingers of the bowmen also in UK and Ireland it was planted in grave yards to keep stock out as the "berries" are poisiness ( feel free to correct spelling) and only last year a pal of mine had to payout around $5000 for stock that died after one of his guys tipped a load of yew wood chip in a feild full of stock.
I had the honor to do some pruning work on one of the oldest Yew trees in the UK, in a grave yard in a village in East Sussex I recall it is put at around 2000 yrears old and is held together with a huge ship anchor chain. In the village ,Willmington, is also a massive chalk carving on a hill side from the days of Druids etc it is known as the Long Man of Willmington.


----------



## nw axe man

dave k said:


> On the Yew, yes Randy is correct about the French cutting off the fingers of the bowmen also in UK and Ireland it was planted in grave yards to keep stock out as the "berries" are poisiness ( feel free to correct spelling) and only last year a pal of mine had to payout around $5000 for stock that died after one of his guys tipped a load of yew wood chip in a feild full of stock.
> I had the honor to do some pruning work on one of the oldest Yew trees in the UK, in a grave yard in a village in East Sussex I recall it is put at around 2000 yrears old and is held together with a huge ship anchor chain. In the village ,Willmington, is also a massive chalk carving on a hill side from the days of Druids etc it is known as the Long Man of Willmington.


 
Hey, Dave, how about honoring us with a picture if that yew? I'd love to see it and see if it's the same kind of yew that grows here. There's trees all over the world that have the same name to them but look completely different. For example, the Cedar of Lebanon and the cedars on the pacific coast here, western red, Alaskan cedar, port orford cedar, incense cedar, all look different yet have similarities. Cedar of Lebanon doesn't look anything like these cedars. If you can get a pic that would really be neat.


----------



## dave k

No pic of that very tree it was 18yrs ago and I haven't lived in that country for the last 15 yrs ! but will get a couple of pics of the most common Tax. BACCATA and I think the tree in Wilmington may be in a book " Meetings with remarkable trees " by Thomas PAKENHAM so I will have a look also I reckon it may be on the internet under Wilmington Yew. Thinking back I was very lucky as I also got to work on the last weeping Elm at Brighton Pavillion which had survived the beetle. The boss said " no pressure Dave it's the last one so just don't eff it up" I hadn't be climbing long and was so proud that I was allowed to work on such a tree. Again Brighton Pavillion is on the net Im sure.


----------



## nw axe man

I look forward to seeing them. Thanks.
Well, gentlemen, have a good weekend. I'm to haying and will be for the next few weeks I'm sure. Hope to stop by for a chat in the evenings. Happy 4th of July to everyone.
John


----------



## Gologit

nw axe man said:


> I look forward to seeing them. Thanks.
> Well, gentlemen, have a good weekend. I'm to haying and will be for the next few weeks I'm sure. Hope to stop by for a chat in the evenings. Happy 4th of July to everyone.
> John


 
Go get 'em. Happy 4th to you, too.


----------



## Greystoke

bigskyjake said:


> thanks buddy, that's pretty cool, how does it fit in to the collar on the end of thet tape, do you have to take it apart and re rivet it?


 
Your welcome pard. Just take the factory d ring off end of tape, spread this one, and squeeze it on...I always slid the factory bumper up over to keep it together as sometimes it has a tendancey to come off...also keeps it rigid and easier to grab hold of.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Wedge Reason*

YouTube - ‪Wildland Fire Chain Saws - Part 8 - Tree Falling‬&rlm;


----------



## paccity

nice series of vid's. that explains a lott.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Why you need wedges and rope*

YouTube - ‪Tree Felling Goes Wrong‬&rlm;



:msp_w00t:


----------



## Gologit

*Hbrn...*

Thanks for posting that video of yourself. We always appreciate pictures from pro fallers, even when things don't go quite right.

Too bad about the house. If you had used a slanting back-cut would the results have been different?

Did you get your house fixed yet?


----------



## lfnh

Rope ?

Hard hat - nah, nothing upstairs to worry about anyways..

Well, least ya don't have to haul the firewood very far.

Dent's book is better, but one example of figuring wedge lift.

Species, time of year, face cut, hinge placement, stem condition have to be considered.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Wedges*

Dents book is a good book to have in the library. I got my first copy when I took forestry class in high school. We had a cranky old faller that was our coach for the timber sports events that was willing to teach the one who would listen . He is the one reason I got into the timber industry. My teacher my clear we were to read as much on timber falling and all aspects of the industry. Our coach got all of us in the class out into the working falling units at least twice a year. Wedges were something my coach said every faller must have, they are a safet device like a brain bucket. I am a firm believer in wedges for safety.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Gologit said:


> Thanks for posting that video of yourself. We always appreciate pictures from pro fallers, even when things don't go quite right.
> 
> Too bad about the house. If you had used a slanting back-cut would the results have been different?
> 
> Did you get your house fixed yet?


 
This kinda bashing is what ruins a good a thread.


----------



## dave k

And so the tall tales continue.....it's like watching a cheap TV channel with cheap reruns !


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

dave k said:


> And so the tall tales continue.....it's like watching a cheap TV channel with cheap reruns !


 
So why do you get such a thrill bashing someone whom you have no personal knowledge of :msp_mad:


----------



## dave k

HBRN rest assured I get no form of thrill from anything conected with you !
I took a couple of pics ,not great ones!, of some yews today at work we felled one around Xmas just to the right of the house which was about 36"dbh and it made some great milled timber.


----------



## RandyMac

This message is hidden because HILLBILLYREDNEC is a poser and on your ignore list.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Wedges*

One of the cheap options for a wedge pouch is to use the white canvas square water bottle bags use by the forest service.


----------



## RandyMac

Hah ha hah
I don't know what you had to say, but I am certain it was stupid.


----------



## 056 kid

Just like nobody ever batted an eye at old hbrn, he just continues like all is good.:msp_sleep:


----------



## slowp

Hey 056! 

My friend just bought an 056 to use for milling. I picked it up. It has enough weight to be a good boat anchor. :msp_smile: It also looks to be in excellent condition.


----------



## stihl 440

056 kid said:


> Just like nobody ever batted an eye at old hbrn, he just continues like all is good.:msp_sleep:


 
Which i think is utterly halarious...LOL


----------



## indiansprings

PNW HBRN the problem is your consistency, in one thread a crusty old hand teaches you, in another it's your dad, now it is a high school forestry coach. Which is it?, that's all people want to know. Based on the sloping back cuts none of them done a very good job. The vid you posted was nice. You've just to figure out who you are, in one post your umemployed, in another your a "pro gypo faller" in another a tree trimmer/removal specialist, in another a ranch hand, another a part-time preacher. It's hard for anyone to give you any credibility when you are all over the board, it's like a wedge is a safety device, no chit, most of the guys on this thread are prolly old enough to have kids your age. Remember, you can't chit a chitter, most of these guys have heard more BS, than you can ever spew and they see through it in a heart beat.
Maybe you can come up with more pics than the infamous sloping back cut that makes a 20 year firewood hack look great. You have a responsibility to give safe, sound advice on here, many newbs, that don't have a clue may take your bullchit serious and one may wind up hurt, maimed or killed because of it. Think before spewing out advice. 
RandyMac, NW axe man and guys like Gologit, Paccity and others are respected because they have walked the miles in the woods, put down the big trees for years, and give advice based on that expierence not by reading others peoples post and paraphrasing them. Be responsible!


----------



## paccity

well said indiansprings , but though i have walked the walk i wouldnt put me in the same league as the vet's you mentioned. but thanks anyway.:msp_wink:


----------



## Philbert

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> YouTube - ‪Wildland Fire Chain Saws - Part 8 - Tree Falling‬&rlm;


 
This was a very good instructional video - very clear, very well thought out.

I am going to scan through the series of these on YouTube.

Thanks.

Philbert


----------



## 8433jeff

Philbert said:


> This was a very good instructional video - very clear, very well thought out.
> 
> I am going to scan through the series of these on YouTube.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Philbert


 
Maybe the HBRN should watch the series with you, Philbert.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

From the way I take it there is pattern to my haters rants, they have no clue as to what my world is like. I was lucky to even get the few years in the brush before the industry died where I was living. There are few on here whom that a got the chance to cut in the old days before pecker pole logging became the norm. I was taught by guys that were starting to retire from the timber falling business. They were the lucky ones,a lot of us end up doing any job available to survive and pay bills. My dad was the one saving grace after I got hurt, gave me work to pay bills an be able to have food on the table. I am not a poser like so many claim I am. I many not have hundred years like some of these guys, I am knowledge able enough to ask for help. There is no one on this planet smart enough to know everything about tree fallen. How many of the AS people know of the ecomomic collapse happening in Central Oregon, If you have a job your lucky and had better fight to keep it.


----------



## stihl 440

Somebody help me i cant find the sad fiddle smiley.....


----------



## Gologit

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> From the way I take it there is pattern to my haters rants, they have no clue as to what my world is like. I was lucky to even get the few years in the brush before the industry died where I was living. There are few on here whom that a got the chance to cut in the old days before pecker pole logging became the norm. I was taught by guys that were starting to retire from the timber falling business. They were the lucky ones,a lot of us end up doing any job available to survive and pay bills. My dad was the one saving grace after I got hurt, gave me work to pay bills an be able to have food on the table. I am not a poser like so many claim I am. I many not have hundred years like some of these guys, I am knowledge able enough to ask for help. There is no one on this planet smart enough to know everything about tree fallen. How many of the AS people know of the ecomomic collapse happening in Central Oregon, If you have a job your lucky and had better fight to keep it.


 

If you're not a poser, why did you delete the threads where you claimed to be a "pro faller" ? 

Most of the guys on here were willing to give you the benefit of the doubt...and most did. But when all your various stories contradicted each other, when you became defensive and vague when asked for simple facts about your background, and when you ran sniveling to the moderators when we called you out for what you really were, we lost all respect for you.

Why not take your act on the road? You have no credibility here. You've waffled, and backtracked, and flat out lied enough times that if you told us a tree was made out of wood we'd probably want a core sample before we believed you.

Give us all a break and go play logger somewhere else. You're tiresome. And, worse than that, you don't seem to learn.


----------



## Cedarkerf

*Pacific yew*

Went out got a couple pics of a 10 inch diameter pacific yew. You can see the puplish bark in the pic of the stem. Hard to get a good pic under the canopy when that brite round things in the sky.


----------



## RandyMac

I always liked those wedges that had red paint on them.


----------



## indiansprings

Nice picture Randy, but what in hell are you doing with that nice level back cut, don't you know it's supposed to be a 45 degree angle,roflmao. Keep on posting those old pics, good stuff!


----------



## stihl 440

indiansprings said:


> Nice picture Randy, but what in hell are you doing with that nice level back cut, don't you know it's supposed to be a 45 degree angle,roflmao. Keep on posting those old pics, good stuff!


 
We are all doing it wrong...we should all use the 45 degree backcut........NOT! Keep positing the pics randy...its nice to see that big softwood hitting the ground.


----------



## 056 kid

slowp said:


> Hey 056!
> 
> My friend just bought an 056 to use for milling. I picked it up. It has enough weight to be a good boat anchor. :msp_smile: It also looks to be in excellent condition.


 
Naa they are not that bad.


----------



## lfnh

Just to be clear, post #364 was written because I figured someone unfamiliar reading this thread on wedges might find the link to figuring lift useful. Ok, the first 3 comments were a little scarcastic. ignore em.

I did not intend the post as a lightning rod.

I appolgize if it did become one. Sorry bout that. Lee


----------



## mdavlee

Thanks for that link. I had never seen a chart that figured lift like that. That gives me a better idea how far a tree can be wedged over now. :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## 1375619cm3

mtsamloggit said:


> Switched to this setup this year, got tired of stuffing my beater in the back of my belt. A pain in the butt, literally.
> 
> View attachment 189077
> 
> 
> This is much better. The harness and scabbard came from a little company over in Smelterville, Id. They make a lot of nice stuff for fallers.
> 
> That is the famous tape nail that Cody likes to speak of on the end of the tape. Works good.
> 
> I'm not too picky about wedge brand. Don't really need anything over ten inches around here. Like I said before, I really like the 7.5" Stihl wedges when a tree spits a wedge. They can really go where no other wedge can.
> 
> The axe has a 3 pound head, which suits me just fine
> 
> A little off topic (not that it probably matters here, lol), but I bought myself a new pair of Viberg Calks after work today. I wish everything was made as well as those boots.
> 
> Take care - Sam


 


Nice Rig Set Up. What is the two curved pieces of leathers for?

*** Cancel the question reading on past this quote has answered the question thanks anyways***


----------



## Philbert

lfnh said:


> Just to be clear, post #364 was written because I figured someone unfamiliar reading this thread on wedges might find the link to figuring lift useful.
> 
> I did not intend the post as a lightning rod.


 
It was a very interesting reference and appropriate for the thread topic.

Philbert


----------



## 2dogs

2dogs said:


> So now you are a faller again huh? Did your friend teach you how to farmer cut big trees too? You have no credibility here. Get it?


 
So HRH PNW HBRN there is a question unanswered between us. WHO did you work as a faller for? And, what years? OK two questions. I don't believe you worked as a pro-faller as you seemed to claim. A pro-faller gets paid to fall trees for a logging company or a contract cutter. Not by his dad. "Falling" for dad is fine but that doesn't make you a pro. I felled firewood trees for my dad. We needed the firewood and had an endless supply of oaks. I still fall firewood trees and that sure as heck does not make me a professional. 

This is just between you and me. I don't believe you were ever a pro-faller, just a wood hack like me. Yes I work in the tree business but I know there is a big difference between my skills and those of a professional faller. I read the nonsense you post here and I don't wonder at all why you refuse to post your true identity or back up your numerous claims of "old boy" teachers with real facts. You indeed are a poser. But if I am wrong then prove me wrong with facts not stories. I would be happy to apologise right here if I'm wrong. I will PM you my cell phone number if you would rather tell me these facts in person. I've spoken to several members over the years on various subjects.

Oh and by the way what part of a yarding operation is the mainline? You made mention of that in the "religion" thread and never answered my question.

Now I don't believe you will respond to anything I have posted here, just more whining about haters and idiots. But do you understand you have no credibilty here? I don't think there is a person here who does not think you are a poser or as your profile says, unemployed redneck. 

Waiting breathlessly for your reply, Bill


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

The wire rope attached to the buttrigging that is used to pull logs to the landing. And like I have told you guys before I was gypo faller, I work for who ever had work. Most of the people who like to twist my words have never worked in my region and know nothing about this regional vocabulary difference. A lot of people on here think I am a scissor bill


----------



## slowp

I'll post this one again. A lot of wedging for a small tree. I believe the blue wedges are the ones that I found the most (in a small piece) on the ground in the woods. 

[video=youtube_share;CJWn5qd36ys]http://youtu.be/CJWn5qd36ys[/video]


----------



## 2dogs

Limb locked trees like that try my patience. You just have to wedge and trim and wait for nature to take its course. Limb locked and pushing back, like what it appeared these guys had, is even worse. Putting in the backcut and wedge first is a good idea. Sort of like jacking with a wedge.


----------



## slowp

Yay! You are still alive! 

I am yawning. I just spent two nights sharing a queen sized bed with The Used Dog. Night one he positioned rear end to my head. Nope, no gastric problems. but pointy hocks in my back. Last night, he was feeling more sociable so it was head to head with breathing on my neck. 

We were camping in a cow pasture out in the woods, to escape the concussive fireworks that were going off in my neighborhood. 

Back on topic...sort of...should he have "used the blue wedge"? Which, I think he actually may have done.


----------



## 2dogs

slowp said:


> Yay! You are still alive!
> 
> I am yawning. I just spent two nights sharing a queen sized bed with The Used Dog. Night one he positioned rear end to my head. Nope, no gastric problems. but pointy hocks in my back. Last night, he was feeling more sociable so it was head to head with breathing on my neck.
> 
> We were camping in a cow pasture out in the woods, to escape the concussive fireworks that were going off in my neighborhood.
> 
> Back on topic...sort of...should he have "used the blue wedge"? Which, I think he actually may have done.


 
I appreciate your concern, yep alive. I should be able to work again in a day or two. My dogs hate fireworks! The male shook for hours last night when the neighbors put on their 90 minute show complete with mortars. I should have taken them camping.

Time is your friend when dealing with the limb locked tree. You can see these guys are not rushing or excited. They did just fine. I'm guessing the blue wedge is a 10" Madsen's brand. Which one they used was no big deal.


----------



## RandyMac

Yep, little trees, not limb locked can be a pain.


----------



## dave k

Just a couple of pics of the wedges and large and small felling levers I carry in the jeep so I have what I may need job to job. The alloy wedges are good but not for dragging a big site and the Hi lift wedge is very handy and I've just realised I've lost one !! I use a Husky maul to drive wedges I like the straight handle. Philbert has very kindly got the pics to show without clicking through them below ! Thanks,


----------



## Philbert

dave k said:


> Just a couple of pics of the wedges and large and small felling levers I carry in the jeep so I have what I may need job to job. The alloy wedges are good but not for dragging a big site and the Hi lift wedge is very handy and I've just realised I've lost one !! I use a Husky maul to drive wedges I like the straight handle.



(images uploaded for ya - Philbert)


----------



## Philbert

I never saw a blue wedge until slowp mentioned it in a recent post and you posted one above. 

Usually see orange, red, yellow, green. West coast thing?

Philbert


----------



## dave k

Thank you Philbert, I've been trying to get the pics to show like that but I must be pretty thick !!


----------



## bitzer

Wow, can't believe this thread is still running along. Great stories and info boys from all over the place! 

Thanks for the clarification on the hay saw too! That makes sense now. The saws I've seen used in pictures for cutting ice look like one man hand saws. I've also seen some circular saw set-ups that look like walk behind concrete saws. Hope you all had a good fourth!


----------



## AndrewMoizer

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> YouTube - ‪Wildland Fire Chain Saws - Part 8 - Tree Falling‬&rlm;


 
Thanks for this link, I learned a few things. Looked at some of the others in the series too. Looks like I really need to get some bucking dogs on my 1100 before I use it for felling.

Worth wading through the drivel to get to this and all the other good info posts from lots of people sharing valuable experience.

cheers,
Andrew


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## promac850

Lots of info here... all of this (other than HBRN's crap) will be useful for me when I get to drop a tree.


Hey HBRN, show us some pictures, and diagrams of your falling technique, etc. and maybe we will believe you... 


probably not...


Hell, I haven't even dropped a tree yet, but I even know that your supposed logging technique is not a good idea... I may be a little dumb, but I ain't stupid. If I was stupid, I wouldn't have all of my fingers...


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## GRTimberCO

promac610 said:


> Lots of info here... all of this (other than HBRN's crap) will be useful for me when I get to drop a tree.
> 
> 
> Hey HBRN, show us some pictures, and diagrams of your falling technique, etc. and maybe we will believe you...
> 
> 
> probably not...
> 
> 
> Hell, I haven't even dropped a tree yet, but I even know that your supposed logging technique is not a good idea... I may be a little dumb, but I ain't stupid. If I was stupid, I wouldn't have all of my fingers...


 

Rep sent, not so much for the post but for the avatar picture.


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## 056 kid

promac610 said:


> Lots of info here... all of this (other than HBRN's crap) will be useful for me when I get to drop a tree.
> 
> 
> Hey HBRN, show us some pictures, and diagrams of your falling technique, etc. and maybe we will believe you...
> 
> 
> probably not...
> 
> 
> Hell, I haven't even dropped a tree yet, but I even know that your supposed logging technique is not a good idea... I may be a little dumb, but I ain't stupid. If I was stupid, I wouldn't have all of my fingers...


 
Never even cut a tree?! DAMN, your worse than HBRN!! Im gonna make big time fun of you!!!!







































Just kidding:msp_tongue:


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## Joe46

Hey KiwiBro, you still reading this thread you started??????


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Wedge Reason*

You call me a hacker check this out. These are certified FS chainsaw operators  :hmm3grin2orange: :msp_ohmy:

YouTube - ‪Ashley National Forest Hazard Trees Part 4 of 6 (Poll Creek)‬&rlm;


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## T_F_E

Still some of the better forest circus employees I've seen.


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## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> You call me a hacker check this out. These are certified FS chainsaw operators  :hmm3grin2orange: :msp_ohmy:
> 
> YouTube - ‪Ashley National Forest Hazard Trees Part 4 of 6 (Poll Creek)‬&rlm;


 
They were slow and left the hinge thick but workmanship was nice. The trees hit the ground where they were gunned. They looked like inexperienced sawyers who played it safe and didn't use any farmer cuts. The wind can be your friend or your enemy. And guys...look UP when you are pounding and work as a team.

Reverend HBRN are you better than these guys?


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## promac850

2dogs said:


> They were slow and left the hinge thick but workmanship was nice. The trees hit the ground where they were gunned. They looked like inexperienced sawyers who played it safe and didn't use any farmer cuts. The wind can be your friend or your enemy.
> 
> Reverend HBRN are you better than these guys?


 
probably not...


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## Samlock

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> You call me a hacker check this out. These are certified FS chainsaw operators  :hmm3grin2orange: :msp_ohmy:
> 
> YouTube - ‪Ashley National Forest Hazard Trees Part 4 of 6 (Poll Creek)‬&rlm;


 
I'm jealous of those fellows. They have time to throw rocks while waiting to a tree to go over. That means they really know how to price their time (and that's more than half of being a pro).


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## bitzer

In the other video that mr. billy posted the faller was a little nervous and shakey. Kind of unsure of where he was. He got the job done, but had to re-cut the face about 10 times and I don't get the 1/3 throttle thing. Also did not look up at the most important part, when the tree started to tip. He was watching his wedge moving. They could of edited that thing down to about 5 minutes also, maybe less. Eh, whatever. So is that pastor billy in that video?


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## slowp

I will confess that I am a certified by the FS until November as a bucker. 

Speed is not stressed. Safety is. I've seen the videos and been to a falling meeting or two. The whole thing is about safety. The FS people are not production fallers. 

We kind of need NW Axeman to do input. I've done a bit of traffic control while the FS fallers were taking down trees in campgrounds. We have people on trails and roads to stop folks from wandering in. It may be overkill, but it is the safest way. The whole certification program started because there were injuries and fatalities. Guys used to go buy a saw and show up at fire camp and get hired as a faller. Falling bosses used to bring them back into camp after seeing they were not fallers. 

The process goes slow. The faller starts cutting. We others are about two tree lengths away, which is a lot in the Iron Creek Campground. When he has the notch in, he radios that he is starting the backcut and checks that everybody is out of the way. That's our cue to stay put and make sure nobody enters the area. The tree topples. We wait for an all clear, then we can move. Totally different from production falling. 

According to Gologit, some certified fallers still shouldn't be on the fireline. That's probably true. 

I didn't watch the whole video. I figured it would hit the ground, eventually. I guess I better watch and see what happened.

Yup, it went over and the stump looks nice. Hack? I think not. I think it is more of somebody who does not get to fall as frequently as some of you.

Maybe he needed to use a Blue wedge.


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## 2dogs

bitzer said:


> In the other video that mr. billy posted the faller was a little nervous and shakey. Kind of unsure of where he was. He got the job done, but had to re-cut the face about 10 times and I don't get the 1/3 throttle thing. Also did not look up at the most important part, when the tree started to tip. He was watching his wedge moving. They could of edited that thing down to about 5 minutes also, maybe less. Eh, whatever. So is that pastor billy in that video?


 
Link pls.


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## 2dogs

slowp said:


> I will confess that I am a certified by the FS until November as a bucker.
> 
> Speed is not stressed. Safety is. I've seen the videos and been to a falling meeting or two. The whole thing is about safety. The FS people are not production fallers.
> 
> We kind of need NW Axeman to do input. I've done a bit of traffic control while the FS fallers were taking down trees in campgrounds. We have people on trails and roads to stop folks from wandering in. It may be overkill, but it is the safest way. The whole certification program started because there were injuries and fatalities. Guys used to go buy a saw and show up at fire camp and get hired as a faller. Falling bosses used to bring them back into camp after seeing they were not fallers.
> 
> The process goes slow. The faller starts cutting. We others are about two tree lengths away, which is a lot in the Iron Creek Campground. When he has the notch in, he radios that he is starting the backcut and checks that everybody is out of the way. That's our cue to stay put and make sure nobody enters the area. The tree topples. We wait for an all clear, then we can move. Totally different from production falling.
> 
> According to Gologit, some certified fallers still shouldn't be on the fireline. That's probably true.
> 
> I didn't watch the whole video. I figured it would hit the ground, eventually. I guess I better watch and see what happened.
> 
> Yup, it went over and the stump looks nice. Hack? I think not. I think it is more of somebody who does not get to fall as frequently as some of you.
> 
> Maybe he needed to use a Blue wedge.



You're right they neglected to color coordinate before they left camp. Blue wedges are all the rage right now. Blue is the new orange.:msp_tongue:


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## bitzer

2dogs said:


> Link pls.



Here it is from page 26 of this thread. 

YouTube - ‪Wildland Fire Chain Saws - Part 8 - Tree Falling‬&rlm;


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## robfromaz1977

HBRN has other ways of getting wood on the ground. :hmm3grin2orange:

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## Joe46

He lost me as soon as mentioned level cuts:msp_rolleyes:


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## 8433jeff

I think hbrn thinks those guys are complete idiots. They are slow, inexperienced, and don't have any motivation to go faster. I may have picked a different day, one where the wind wasn't blowing directly against the direction of fall, but maybe it had to go that day. When he posted it, I thought for sure it was going over backwards. I thought during it it would show the farmer cut. No on both.
Not often that people post things contrary to their side of the argument, is it?


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## 2dogs

bitzer said:


> In the other video that mr. billy posted the faller was a little nervous and shakey. Kind of unsure of where he was. He got the job done, but had to re-cut the face about 10 times and I don't get the 1/3 throttle thing. Also did not look up at the most important part, when the tree started to tip. He was watching his wedge moving. They could of edited that thing down to about 5 minutes also, maybe less. Eh, whatever. So is that pastor billy in that video?


 
Bitzer are you saying the FS guy in the video doesn't know his stuff? COME ON MAN! He is probably a C certifier. Trimming up the face is a good thing. I do it whenever I mismatch my cuts and I teach others to do the same thing. You can't be saying you never mismatch cuts or that your face never needs a cleanup. I always watch my wedges along with the top. You, well me anyway, can't always see the top well and watching the wedge move is another tool in the tool box. One does not replace the other it just gives more information especially in the wind. Tighten the wedge as needed. I thought you cut more than cookies and firewood.


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## RandyMac

Yeah a whittler, better to do that than over cut. My cuz Kev was one of those guys who always had his cuts match up, too bad he couldn't read trees worth a crap.


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## 056 kid

2dogs said:


> Bitzer are you saying the FS guy in the video doesn't know his stuff? COME ON MAN! He is probably a C certifier. Trimming up the face is a good thing. I do it whenever I mismatch my cuts and I teach others to do the same thing. You can't be saying you never mismatch cuts or that your face never needs a cleanup. I always watch my wedges along with the top. You, well me anyway, can't always see the top well and watching the wedge move is another tool in the tool box. One does not replace the other it just gives more information especially in the wind. Tighten the wedge as needed. I thought you cut more than cookies and firewood.


 
too much ####ing around is what he means. . . I rekon.


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## indiansprings

From what i seen on the video, those boy's are a hell of a lot more competent than PNW "longbar" HBRN, their technique was a so much better than the sloping backcut displayed by the self-proclaimed gypo faller.

I would have chosen a less windy day, or waited until the wind died down, it may have been calm when they started. Like mentioned by Slow P their not production fallers and being govt. employees prolly not on much of a fixed schedule. It was prolly their task for the day, dropping the tree and bucking it up, better safe than sorry. 

It's just another in a long, never ending line of pizz poor post by HBRN, I've noticed he never mentions the people he was a gypo faller for, I imagine that industry is pretty tight up there and surely a few of the guys on here would prolly know his references.............but then again.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

The point of the link is showing why having the correct wedge would have made the tree fall with out risk of it stump setting.
YouTube - ‪How to Cut Down a Tree : Using a Felling Wedge When Cutting Down a Tree‬&rlm;


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## RandyMac

This message is hidden because HILLBILLYREDNEC is poser and is on your ignore list.


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## slowp

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The point of the link is showing why having the correct wedge would have made the tree fall with out risk of it stump setting.
> YouTube - ‪How to Cut Down a Tree : Using a Felling Wedge When Cutting Down a Tree‬&rlm;



Which wedge would you recommend? A pink one? Explain.


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## indiansprings

He is unable to ascertain the wind is a huge factor in this case and is the predominant factor. What ever wedge he would use I'm sure it would be a loooooooong one. I'd think it would be dang hard to wedge those sloping back cuts he uses, at least the FS guy can make a level back cut.


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## Gologit

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The point of the link is showing why having the correct wedge would have made the tree fall with out risk of it stump setting.
> YouTube - ‪How to Cut Down a Tree : Using a Felling Wedge When Cutting Down a Tree‬&rlm;


 
You just don't get it.


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## John Ellison

Hey, if Drew Finn uses an angled back cut it must be the right way.


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## Gologit

Here's some good examples of Hbrn's favorite falling cut. And no, these weren't done by me. I got called in to clean up the tangled, jackstrawed mess that this kind of falling creates. Slowp helped us on this one and she saw first hand what a debacle it was. Doing a post-mortem on some of the trees, they went side-ways, backwards, and everywhere but in some kind of lead. Why nobody got hurt or worse is beyond me.

I wish we'd taken pictures of the mess but those of you who fall can probably imagine it.














Now...Hbrn, can you tell me how a wedge would have made any of the trees in the above pictures fall into lead?
And, can you explain to us just what a _lead"_ is? As opposed to a lay, of course.

And those job references? Just PM me with them and I'll check them out. If they're valid I'll post a public apology for calling you a liar and a fraud.


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## 056 kid

I have a picture just like that Bob, except the stumps are all humboldt and conventional. Just for a good comparison in bad VS good. .


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## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The point of the link is showing why having the correct wedge would have made the tree fall with out risk of it stump setting.
> YouTube - ‪How to Cut Down a Tree : Using a Felling Wedge When Cutting Down a Tree‬&rlm;


 
Expert Village!? Man you are really grasping at straws! What's next Rev, Bob Vila?


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## 056 kid

indiansprings said:


> He is unable to ascertain the wind is a huge factor in this case and is the predominant factor. What ever wedge he would use I'm sure it would be a loooooooong one. I'd think it would be dang hard to wedge those sloping back cuts he uses, at least the FS guy can make a level back cut.


 
Nothing happens, all you do with a wedge in a sloping back cut is separate the wood fibers , like splitting fire wood


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## paccity

village idiot.


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## lfnh

056 kid said:


> Nothing happens, all you do with a wedge in a sloping back cut is separate the wood fibers , like splitting fire wood


 
...and kick it off the stump - into limb lock or uncontrolled fall in some random direction.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

The point of the first video is they should have used 6" wedges. A 6" wedge has the ability to provide lift quicker on smaller tree. The video showed that the wedges bottomed out on the hinge and failed to provide the needed lift, now if they had only the long wedges they should have side wedged the tree. Knowing how to select the correct type and length of wedge is very important skill to have when felling trees.


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## 056 kid

Mother ####er, you don't know ####, now quit trying to act like you do, you remind me of that dude that kept asking how much horse power his McCulloch 101b could produce. He asked that same question probably 5-600 times. . . Now you just keep putting your 2 sense in and nobody wants to hear it. go jump in a lake, I'm going to have one more shot before I spark my last indian cigarette.


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## slowp

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The point of the first video is they should have used 6" wedges. A 6" wedge has the ability to provide lift quicker on smaller tree. The video showed that the wedges bottomed out on the hinge and failed to provide the needed lift, now if they had only the long wedges they should have side wedged the tree. Knowing how to select the correct type and length of wedge is very important skill to have when felling trees.


 
I have tried to be upbeat and stay out of this, but if some unknowing person reads your cut and paste knowledge, they might get hurt. 

So, what is the source of the above statement? If I were a teacher, I would swear you copied--or in this day and age cut and pasted your wisdom from another document. Plaglarize is the polite term. 

Your funning around might get somebody hurt. Or are you also a surgeon/orthopedist who can patch them up afterwards? Then I envision you as also a skilled lawyer so you can sue yourself. 

Wasn't this a movie or something? With Tony Curtis way back in the dark ages?


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Wedges and face selection is a skill some people will never learn. There seems to a general attitude on here that a new falling technique is taboo:msp_confused: I guess that on here a lot people hate to learn or try to learn something new. For me to trying something new is more fun then being anti new things. Your never to old to learn something new.
:confused2:


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## madhatte

So, I have my new crew for this summer. One person I have to work with comes to us via a contract crew with a "B" faller cert. He's sharp as hell on Forestry stuff, but I watched him run a saw today and he can't even start it, much less run it. I don't know who signed off on that "B" cert but I'd very much like to do that person harm; this person is trainable, and I'll make a passable bucker of him given time, but he should never have gotten that signature. Right now we're just brushing roads, and I felt obligated to pull him aside and go over the basics so he wouldn't hurt himself. 

On-topic: some people aren't ready for wedges. With training they will be. It's important that somebody care enough about safety to commit to a training program. It's also important that training and certification standards be upheld and enforced.


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## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The point of the link is showing why having the correct wedge would have made the tree fall with out risk of it stump setting.
> YouTube - ‪How to Cut Down a Tree : Using a Felling Wedge When Cutting Down a Tree‬&rlm;


 
I'm confused. Post 437 was made in reference to Fenn's video (as in the quoted post herein),
which exhibits the down angled back cut.

This notorious down angled back cut has been debated in the negative in many, many forums over a long period of time.

Go back to the first year of posts on AS.


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## 8433jeff

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The point of the first video is they should have used 6" wedges. A 6" wedge has the ability to provide lift quicker on smaller tree. The video showed that the wedges bottomed out on the hinge and failed to provide the needed lift, now if they had only the long wedges they should have side wedged the tree. Knowing how to select the correct type and length of wedge is very important skill to have when felling trees.


 
So the 4" wedge you are insinuating that bottomed (allegedly) on the hinge is replaced by a 6" wedge that will magically not bottom on the hinge?
Are you watching the same video, Mr. Rather? With out that wedge the saw is still on the stump when the wind pushes the tree over backwards. Yes, another wedge from the side may have helped. "The Wind" may have made driving that wedge from the side quite a chore, and wouldn't have been too prudent safety wise.

I think I've sawed more logs in church than you have in your life, and I don't know a dang thing. Except that I don't sleep much in church.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Since people can not figure out why a 6" wedge provides more lift faster then a 10" or twelve inch here is a good picture.View attachment 189983
View attachment 189984


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## paccity

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Wedges and face selection is a skill some people will never learn. There seems to a general attitude on here that a new falling technique is taboo:msp_confused: I guess that on here a lot people hate to learn or try to learn something new. For me to trying something new is more fun then being anti new things. Your never to old to learn something new.
> :confused2:


 
new? what the heii have fallers ben doing for at least the last 200 year's? you don't think some of the crap hasn't ben tryed and discarded? unbelevable , i just don't know what else to say.:bang:


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## T_F_E

paccity said:


> new? what the heii have fallers ben doing for at least the last 200 year's? you don't think some of the crap hasn't ben tryed and discarded? unbelevable , i just don't know what else to say.:bang:


 
I agree, we dont need to re invent the wheel here. What works works.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

If you have been around long enough in the woods you have figured out what works best for you. I have never said that a sloping back is the end all be all of hazard tree falling, it was a one time use for a snag were I had little time and limited tools on hand, yes a the snag could have been tried with a flat back but it was a iffy situation at best. These snags were rotten and internal wood quality was in question. Every tree or snag has to be treated for the conditions present not some by the book opinion. There is a lot of regional differences in face cutting styles. The face cut I have to laugh at is the open face described in Stihl owner manuals  I got complimented by the state forestry on the stumps from the logging my Dad and I did this winter on the ranch. They said that they were surprised how well the tree lays were setup. These trees were 36" to 50" straight across the stump.


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## 056 kid

shut up yo.


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## bitzer

2dogs said:


> Bitzer are you saying the FS guy in the video doesn't know his stuff? COME ON MAN! He is probably a C certifier. Trimming up the face is a good thing. I do it whenever I mismatch my cuts and I teach others to do the same thing. You can't be saying you never mismatch cuts or that your face never needs a cleanup. I always watch my wedges along with the top. You, well me anyway, can't always see the top well and watching the wedge move is another tool in the tool box. One does not replace the other it just gives more information especially in the wind. Tighten the wedge as needed. I thought you cut more than cookies and firewood.


 
Sometimes I have a hard time reading you man. Of course I come up short on cuts and faces need cleaning. I wouldn't even put myself in the ballpark with the respected guys in the F&L, you included, in terms of timber falling prowess. I also watch wedges move and kerfs open. It was a lot of messing around though and for an instructional video I wouldn't have been happy with that if it were me.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Knowing how to select the wedge and knowing how to read the back cut is a skill a lot of people do not understand. Using the right wedge and knowing when to hit hard or hit softly is skill that takes practice. The one thing that gives me the willies is watching some one miss read the tree and the tree either pinches the saw or goes over the wrong way. Having several sizes of wedges will give a person the option to use short or long or double or triple stack wedges.


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## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The point of the link is showing why having the correct wedge would have made the tree fall with out risk of it stump setting.
> YouTube - ‪How to Cut Down a Tree : Using a Felling Wedge When Cutting Down a Tree‬&rlm;


 
So, just to be certain, the  added at the end of the Fenn video reference, means you think the "felling method" Fenn depicted (down angled back cut) is not a good technique ?



eel


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

lfnh said:


> So, just to be certain, the  added at the end of the Fenn video reference, means you think the felling method Fenn depicted (down angled back cut) is not a good technique ?



The guy is joke, he is worth watching just for sheets and grins. He is going to get some one killed. I am the type if some one posts a video or a picture of a tree falling style I am not going rush and try it, I will study it and see if it has any value,one never knows it may be feasible in the right situation .

YouTube - ‪Tongue and Groove Tree Felling Technique‬&rlm;


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## 2dogs

Which guy is a joke Fenn from the previous video or Ekka from your last post?


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Anything Fenn does is joke


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## lfnh

Problem is, people reading this forum might not be able to distinguished the tried, good techniques from the bad ones that'll get ya hurt. They might just not understand that a video on the net is depicting a risky method and why it's risky or just outright dangerous.


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## 2dogs

bitzer said:


> Sometimes I have a hard time reading you man. Of course I come up short on cuts and faces need cleaning. I wouldn't even put myself in the ballpark with the respected guys in the F&L, you included, in terms of timber falling prowess. I also watch wedges move and kerfs open. It was a lot of messing around though and for an instructional video I wouldn't have been happy with that if it were me.


 
Well it is an instructional video so all the time needed to explain the situation should be taken. Remember USFS employees are working at a different pace than production fallers. Their goal is to came home safely, in the case of the video, after falling fire damaged snags and trees. This is extremely hazardous work! Plus once you have the tree faced up you can take your time to make sure everything is going according to plan. I suppose they have to do a JHA before each tree is cut anyway. FS (and BLM) works long hours in rough conditions, no need to hurry.

They also often leave the biggest nastiest trees for specialty fallers. Smart move there!


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## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The guy is joke, he is worth watching just for sheets and grins. He is going to get some one killed. I am the type if some one posts a video or a picture of a tree falling style I am not going rush and try it, I will study it and see if it has any value,one never knows it may be feasible in the right situation .
> 
> YouTube - ‪Tongue and Groove Tree Felling Technique‬&rlm;


 
Remember the T&G method is used on palms. It may not work on trees. BTW that vid is by a member and has been posted here for years.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

The thing about the video of the FS fallers was the unprofessional behavior shown. A true professional faller would not be be seen throwing rocks at a properly faced and back cut tree because they failed to have the right equipment to do the job.


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## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The thing about the video of the FS fallers was the unprofessional behavior shown. A true professional faller would not be be seen throwing rocks at faced and back cut tree because they failed to have the right equipment to do the job.


 
I might have tickled the hinge a little but the tree did fall right where it was suposed to go. They were waiting out the wind. Heck I would have probably thrown rocks at the tree just for fun but then I'm one of those guys who is always throwing rocks.


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## RandyMac

This message is hidden because HILLBILLYBROKEBACK is on your ignore list. 
View Post.Remove user from ignore list


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## RandyMac

2dogs said:


> I might have tickled the hinge a little but the tree did fall right where it was suposed to go. They were waiting out the wind. Heck I would have probably thrown rocks at the tree just for fun but then I'm one of those guys who is always throwing rocks.


 
Oh yeah! I love throwing rocks, doesn't even have to be a target.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Randy says throwing rocks is ok, then I question if he is a real faller. I pro will not exhibit childish unprofessional behavior or say that it ok to do it on film. If these guys on the video are suppose to be certified fallers then why is that they show childish behavior


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## RandyMac

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Randy says throwing rocks is ok, then I question if he is a real faller. I pro will not exhibit childish unprofessional behavior or say that it ok to do it on film. If these guys on the video are suppose to be certified fallers then why is that they show childish behavior


 
Listen here skidmark, I'll throw a gawdammed rock, whenever and wherever I dammed well feel like it.
You must feel pretty safe typin' this crap out, hidin' in your bunghole, spewin' worthless verbage for us to laugh at.
This personal stuff will stop, you have slandered enough, you have not put up one single good example of your work.
Oh and you have one thing right, I am not currently a pro faller. My pro days are behind me, I have no reason to lie about it and have never said that I was still killing trees for a living. Yep, there you have, I'm a has been. I earned my spurs, if you say one more disparaging word about anyone else, ever again, I will dug them bastards in your back like a drunk Vaquero.
Consider this your last warning, I will find you, I know how, I have an APP for that. Now go snivel at the mods and get me banned you cheesy twerp.


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## dave k

You really are a fool HBRN please crawl back into the hole you came from, I feel so sad that you make every thread you post on so cheap and that you are given every chance to change your manner makes it even more shameful.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Wedges*

There is new styles of wedges that may be worth the extra dollars. Having a a variety of wedges can make tree falling safer and easier. For me the Stihl branded wedges seem fairly hard. The best wedge for beating hard on is the hard head variety. You never have to many wedges in the falling bag.


----------



## dave k

So tells us about them ? For a guy that said in several posts on the chainsaw section that you just did fire wood now you seem to now be a fulltime faller ?
I see you are looking at this now, I'm not bashing you or do I hate you I just don't get why you see the need for lies and rubbish ? I look forward to your info and link to the " new wedges "


----------



## bitzer

2dogs said:


> Well it is an instructional video so all the time needed to explain the situation should be taken. Remember USFS employees are working at a different pace than production fallers. Their goal is to came home safely, in the case of the video, after falling fire damaged snags and trees. This is extremely hazardous work! Plus once you have the tree faced up you can take your time to make sure everything is going according to plan. I suppose they have to do a JHA before each tree is cut anyway. FS (and BLM) works long hours in rough conditions, no need to hurry.
> 
> They also often leave the biggest nastiest trees for specialty fallers. Smart move there!


 
You're right. That is a line of work I know nothing about and therefore my trap should have been kept shut. I can be a cynical ####### from time to time, must be the kraut in me. That cookie cutter remark was a low blow though! My little lady does all the cookie cutting around here. Shes a damn good cook and won't take no for an answer!


----------



## Gologit

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Randy says throwing rocks is ok, then I question if he is a real faller. I pro will not exhibit childish unprofessional behavior or say that it ok to do it on film. If these guys on the video are suppose to be certified fallers then why is that they show childish behavior


 
Nothing wrong with throwing rocks. I do it a lot. I'd like to throw some right now.

And I agree with RandyMac...my best days as a faller are behind me. I still do it but not at the pace I used to.

I guess that makes me a has-been. But...better to be a has-been than a never-was. Or a never-could-be. Like you.


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## RandyMac

Bob, you are a "has been doing it".


----------



## wyk

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The thing about the video of the FS fallers was the unprofessional behavior shown. A true professional faller would not be be seen throwing rocks at a properly faced and back cut tree because they failed to have the right equipment to do the job.


 
A professional faller would not be seen throwing rocks at a forestry and logging forum, either...


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Bob, you are a "has been doing it".


 
 Yup...too old to change, too dumb to give up.


----------



## slowp

Perhaps we should start a rock throwing thread? :msp_rolleyes: I'd be bad, I throw like a girl. 
Rock throwing is like a sport in the woods. What does one do when one is waiting? Waiting for a ride? Waiting for something to get fixed, waiting for somebody to show up....and so on. The other alternative is sleep. 

You pick out a target--preferably something that won't throw back, and you start tossing rocks at it. 

Rock throwing is an intergenerational sport. We took some kids out and there wasn't a lot to see because one operation was broke down. So, we stopped by a creek. The kids were antsy but when the forester (not me) saw a rock in just the right place with a drill hole in it, he yelled FIVE BUCKS IF YOU GET A ROCK IN THAT HOLE and the kids were busy. The money was safe. I came closest, and I was the worst thrower.

HBRN, you are starting to sound just like one of them Chinese spammers.


----------



## forestryworks

RandyMac said:


> I have an APP for that.


 


Good one!


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

The point about the rock throwing is that they showed bad taste by showing it on video. The guys are representing the the USFS and should act like such, not like a bunch of firewood hackers. I am like a lot of guys that had a decent job and something changed. I do the odd falling jobs to help keep up the skill and make a little extra money to survive the economic collapse in my area. Around here there is not much money to be had cutting firewood. I only cut some for a family member and few friends. The thing that is funny on here is much some people hate a change in anything :help: People that need the big trees felled have only a couple of guys to do it, I am one of the few locals that gets called.Being prepared to fall any tree means having all the tools for any problem that could arise. I posted this video to point out why 6" wedges are better then 8",10" or 12". This video clearly shows that if they had 6" wedges that the tree would have gone over easier and with out the waiting time.


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## dave k

Am astounded yet again , you said that the biggest saw you were going to have, apart ffrom a 046, was a 051 that you were going to put a 42" bar on to cut up some blow down for fire wood now you are one of the only locals to be called for "any tree" in your area ? How did you amass so much equipment in so little time ? And you wonder why so many here question you ??


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## 056 kid

*HBRN, you should make a video of you falling a tree!!*


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

I get a lot saws because people know I collect saws. The few guys that still know how to fall the big trees have retired. Some of the guys come and help the local tree service with the big ones. I help a few tree guys with consulting work on the bigger trees since very few of them have the training on the big trees. In my area there is a lot big trees in the forest and a few on private land. The few bigger trees on private land have to approved by state forestry for removal. Falling a 42" tree is more difficult then a 24" tree. Some of the 42" trees I had to drop this winter were really dense and they were a lot harder to drop safely. For me if a tree is going to be removed and there is any doubt it gets a rope or heavy equipment to assist it going over. The thing about tree falling a lot people have trouble with is reading the load weight, wedges can be helpful to correct the weight balance.


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## 056 kid

You put ropes in trees, your a high climber now too?


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

You do not have to be a climber to place a rope in a tree.


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## 056 kid

:bang:


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## dave k

That may be, but, to be regarded as an equal or someone capable of learning you must first stop acting in the manner in which you conduct yourself !
Again I must stress that I have no ill feeling towards you nor gain any form of enjoyment from having to point this out to you, as I have said to you before you should go to a place and think about how your conduct affects our disposition towards you.
The only reason I engage in this futile atempt to make you aware of your shortcommings is so that we, the other members, can have a normal disscusion in any post but you seem intent in butting in with bizzare claims which detracts from the real issue.


----------



## bitzer

Ok heres some humble pie:

About a month ago or so we had the first (and until just recently) 95 degree day. Humid as hell and I feel like a pile of ####. I had to wait until my wife got off of work at noon to start this job so it was cookin. I had my little bro (15 years old) brush monkeying for me. The tree was a Paper Birch maybe 18" dbh and about 45ft tall. It was growing out of a deck and leaning pretty good out toward a blacktop driveway. It had a lightning scar running up the tensioned back side and I could see carpenter ants dart in and out of there periodically. Also the top 10-15ft was dead with several cavaties and mushy wood. I knew it was msuhy because I removed several widow makers by throwline the week before when trimming the other trees on this property. The home is located on a lake and the houses are planted right on top of each other. Because it was so hot everyone was at the lake that day. I had the homeowner and their friends and the neighbors and their friends on both sides as spectators. I had to pull some boards out of the deck so that I wouldn't have to color match them if they got wrecked and figured if I did any damage to the joists I could fix that. 

I'm sweatin. Well I put the face in and realize I'm coming up long on the far side so I bust it out. So I've got a 1" gap on the far side and the pinch on my side. I had to leave a thicker hinge on my side and micro hinge on the far side to try and compensate. Steep humboldt btw. I deceided to bore out the back cut because of the questionable wood and left the strap on the better looking side. The last time I sharpened the chains for this saw though I had set the rakers a little low and she was awfully grabby forcing me to put more pressure on it as I bore. Well, I step back, trip the strap and off she goes, laying her out butt first like a newborn baby (thanks leftys for the humboldt!). I did not even break the stem and had only minimal breakage of the limbs. 

30 min later my little bro is hot and pist from "doing all the work" and says to me right in front of the homeowner, "hey isn't that supposed to be straight, I thought you are supposed to be a professional?" Refering to the back-cut, "Why you little bastard!" is what I wanted to say. I told him, "not every stump can be perfect, its knowing how to correct your mistakes." "I layed it out where I wanted it right?" I've already taught the little punk too much! There was also no breakage of the joists which is another thanks to the boys on the left! Well here are the befores and afters anyway. 











View attachment 190017
View attachment 190018


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Nice job on getting it to lay were you wanted it. We all have stumps that are a little off. You used what work and it came out fine. Glad your safe and there was no property damage.


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## dave k

That's high praise from a pro like you HBRN ............?


----------



## indiansprings

It's to the point where someone needs to deal with this AZZ CLOWN, before he gets someone hurt with his ignorant advice. This guy has to be mental, now he is a consulting gypo faller who is also a Reverend, a firewood cutter, unemployed, ranch hand, climber, repair man, what in the holy hell is it going to be next. I can tell you where he needs a wedge drove............but that would just get me banned to his satisfaction.
All this joker has to do is post or pm some references to one of the guys in his area, hell he'll never do that because he has none, nada, zip. He's cut one tree down in his front yard and is the know all end all expert on falling and wedge use. What a pathetic joke. He need's to get out of his parents basement and post some video of him falling.......hell, I'm looking forward to his instructional series on here on how to Fark up a perfectly good tree. With so many chain saws and wedges hanging out his azz I'm sure it will be no problem for him, if I lived out there, hell I'd furnish the tree for you to butcher. What a joke, it is absolutely pathetic that the professional fallers on here have to put up with this guys nonsense.


----------



## Gologit

Maybe if the mods gave him his own thread...? He could post all he wanted to there, but no other place. We, of course, could respond.

The mods could put a "Caution...this thread contains bad information, role playing, and outright lies" tag on it...just to keep the newbies safe.


----------



## RandyMac

Eh, time to go elsewhere.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Eh, time to go elsewhere.


 
Nope...if we do that, he wins.


----------



## wyk

Gologit said:


> Nope...if we do that, he wins.


 
I always suspected it may have been his intentions all along.


----------



## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> Nope...if we do that, he wins.


 
There is truth to that.
I don't want to be banned again.
I'll be back later.


----------



## lfnh

Don't recall if the question of cold weather wedges was brought up in the previous 490 posts. Just wondering what some use in the cold (less than +15) and frozen wood, for bucking or felling ?


----------



## dancan

I dropped a 3 1/2 foot diameter pine tree this week , it had a heavy side and hard lean towards a swamp so the contractor did not want to run his excavator there so I did a conventional face cut with a flat back cut using 3 wedges to keep the bar from being pinched and then the JD200 was used to tip it over . The excavator operator couldn't believe how smoothly it went .

Was that allowed ?


----------



## slowp

Here's a big yeller wedge being used.

[video=youtube_share;U4UBoL2qnEk]http://youtu.be/U4UBoL2qnEk[/video]


----------



## Philbert

lfnh said:


> Don't recall if the question of cold weather wedges was brought up in the previous 490 posts. Just wondering what some use in the cold (< 15) and frozen wood, for bucking or felling ?


 
Ice wedges?

But seriously, I was browsing through all of the similar looking wedges in one of the non-sponsor site's catalog and they had this description:

Double Taper Super-Tuff wedges are made of tough poly plastic. This is a softer material than ABS. 
They are a good choice when working in cold conditions. We have never had a broken one, but because 
they are soft, the heels tend to "beat over" more quickly than ABS wedges. 

Can't vouch for them personally, but makes sense that some plastics would do better than others. They also had aluminum wedges (just don't lick them when its really, really cold!).

Still want to find some blue wedges now that I have seen them in this thread! Maybe I can trade some of my credits for one?

Philbert


----------



## 2dogs

Contact Rev HBRN for blessed blue wedges.


----------



## Gologit

lfnh said:


> Don't recall if the question of cold weather wedges was brought up in the previous 490 posts. Just wondering what some use in the cold (< 15) and frozen wood, for bucking or felling ?


 
Minus 15 ??!! I don't think I'd be anywhere but in front of the wood stove.  I _have_ used plastic wedges in temperatures well below freezing and they tended to break if not hit squarely. I don't know if that was a function of the cold or just me being ham-handed and in a hurry to get done.

I'll bet some of our Eastern brethren could tell us about minus 15 degrees. I can't. And that's a good thing.


----------



## Gologit

dancan said:


> I dropped a 3 1/2 foot diameter pine tree this week , it had a heavy side and hard lean towards a swamp so the contractor did not want to run his excavator there so I did a conventional face cut with a flat back cut using 3 wedges to keep the bar from being pinched and then the JD200 was used to tip it over . The excavator operator couldn't believe how smoothly it went .
> 
> Was that allowed ?


 
Yup.


----------



## lfnh

Gologit said:


> Minus 15 ??!! I don't think I'd be anywhere but in front of the wood stove.  I _have_ used plastic wedges in temperatures well below freezing and they tended to break if not hit squarely. I don't know if that was a function of the cold or just me being ham-handed and in a hurry to get done.
> 
> I'll bet some of our Eastern brethren could tell us about minus 15 degrees. I can't. And that's a good thing.


 
Meant less than +15. Sorry for the confusion.
Went back and fixed up the original question. Thanks.

btw, 
Have cut at -15, mostly cause I didn't anticipate heating needs and wasn't smart enough to cut more sooner - when alot younger. Just fond memories now. :smile:


----------



## dancan

Gologit said:


> Minus 15 ??!! I don't think I'd be anywhere but in front of the wood stove.  I _have_ used plastic wedges in temperatures well below freezing and they tended to break if not hit squarely. I don't know if that was a function of the cold or just me being ham-handed and in a hurry to get done.
> 
> I'll bet some of our Eastern brethren could tell us about minus 15 degrees. I can't. And that's a good thing.


 

I find the plastic wedges brittle at 23f and get worse as it gets colder .
We usually don't get lower than -5f here and that's cold enough for me .


----------



## 2dogs

Where I cut in I'm more concerned about my wedges melting than breaking because of the cold.


----------



## Driver625

I have some 6" orange wedges from Baileys. I worked on a clearing job the winter of 2008(I think) near Waterford, Vt. I mostly drove skidder but the boss let me cut some. My wedges didn't break and I swing an axe like a spider monkey on crack. Not much wedging unless a Cat 320 counts.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Cold Weather*

For sub freezing jobs magnesium wedges work well. They cost a bit more then plastic wedges, they last a lot longer tho. For most winter tree bucking with a plastic 6" wedge is less likely to fracture then a longer wedge.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Where I cut in I'm more concerned about my wedges melting than breaking because of the cold.


 
Yup. At 4000 feet Friday it was 90 degrees. And we kept cutting down our shade.


----------



## Gologit

Driver625 said:


> ... and I swing an axe like a spider monkey on crack.



 My uncle used to call me "lightning" when I used an axe...never hit the same place twice.


----------



## Driver625

Gologit said:


> My uncle used to call me "lightning" when I used an axe...never hit the same place twice.


 
That's why the boss put me in the skidder. He felt bad for my wedges.


----------



## coastalfaller

Gologit said:


> My uncle used to call me "lightning" when I used an axe...never hit the same place twice.


 
Hahaha! That's hilarious, Bob! I've been called the same thing! lol


----------



## Gologit

coastalfaller said:


> Hahaha! That's hilarious, Bob! I've been called the same thing! lol


 
Just for fun, many many years ago, I tried chopping out the face of a tree I wanted to cut for firewood. It was a cedar, about thirty inches DBH. Gave me a whole new appreciation for my ancestors that used to do the same thing with old growth redwood.

And, I gotta tell you...that was one ugly face cut. Kinda looked like it had been worked over by drunken beavers.


----------



## RandyMac

Bob, My Bro and I attacked an goosepen Redwood snag with axes and a misery whip, it took all day, the results were less than optimal.


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## Metals406

I ever tell you boys about that time back in 1948 when me and paw were felling old growth Aspen? Dad was 10 at the time, and had a lot of growing up to do, I was just a little fry as well, and was a smidgen under 7' tall and 450 pounds.

Well, we get to cutting that 6' DBH Aspen -- in South Florida -- and the brand new MS 660 quits on us. Of course, the 460 Husky was in the shop at the time getting a tune and 60" bar. So me and dad set to finishing off the face cut with his Swiss knife and a tube of Brylcreem for lube. Dad unfolded the saw out'a that knife and we took turns for the next 60 seconds. . . Paw said it should have only taken us 30 seconds, and it was cause us youngsters were getting lazy.

So we bucked up the whole 700' feet of the dern thing, and loaded it on dad's Vespa. We would have used his Moped, but it was also in the shop getting afterburners. Maw helped us unload it at the cabin, and we all went out for ice cream at Jedediah's -- the cantankerous one legged Amish man that sold dad his spaceship.

Next week I'll tell you fellas about my cousin Paul, and his pet Blue Ox Babe.


----------



## 2dogs

Metals406 said:


> I ever tell you boys about that time back in 1948 when me and paw were felling old growth Aspen? Dad was 10 at the time, and had a lot of growing up to do, I was just a little fry as well, and was a smidgen under 7' tall and 450 pounds.
> 
> Well, we get to cutting that 6' DBH Aspen -- in South Florida -- and the brand new MS 660 quits on us. Of course, the 460 Husky was in the shop at the time getting a tune and 60" bar. So me and dad set to finishing off the face cut with his Swiss knife and a tube of Brylcreem for lube. Dad unfolded the saw out'a that knife and we took turns for the next 60 seconds. . . Paw said it should have only taken us 30 seconds, and it was cause us youngsters were getting lazy.
> 
> So we bucked up the whole 700' feet of the dern thing, and loaded it on dad's Vespa. We would have used his Moped, but it was also in the shop getting afterburners. Maw helped us unload it at the cabin, and we all went out for ice cream at Jedediah's -- the cantankerous one legged Amish man that sold dad his spaceship.
> 
> Next week I'll tell you fellas about my cousin Paul, and his pet Blue Ox Babe.


 
What a load of bullstuff! Everyone knows the Amish don't eat ice cream.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> I ever tell you boys about that time back in 1948 when me and paw were felling old growth Aspen? Dad was 10 at the time, and had a lot of growing up to do, I was just a little fry as well, and was a smidgen under 7' tall and 450 pounds.
> 
> Well, we get to cutting that 6' DBH Aspen -- in South Florida -- and the brand new MS 660 quits on us. Of course, the 460 Husky was in the shop at the time getting a tune and 60" bar. So me and dad set to finishing off the face cut with his Swiss knife and a tube of Brylcreem for lube. Dad unfolded the saw out'a that knife and we took turns for the next 60 seconds. . . Paw said it should have only taken us 30 seconds, and it was cause us youngsters were getting lazy.
> 
> So we bucked up the whole 700' feet of the dern thing, and loaded it on dad's Vespa. We would have used his Moped, but it was also in the shop getting afterburners. Maw helped us unload it at the cabin, and we all went out for ice cream at Jedediah's -- the cantankerous one legged Amish man that sold dad his spaceship.
> 
> Next week I'll tell you fellas about my cousin Paul, and his pet Blue Ox Babe.


 
hahaha
speaking of rubbing alcohol filtered through a loaf of bread

BTW was that the vespa with the Cummins triple nickel or was it a gas burner :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## paccity

holy crap! leave for a day and it just gets better.


----------



## RandyMac

Paul was all talk, he was just in it for the chicks.


----------



## Metals406

Listen, just cause you fellas don't know your Amish, ice cream, Vespa's, or Oxen. . . Don't make me come through this computer! :rant:


----------



## slowp

Another question for an expert.

How come multicolored wedges aren't in the stores. Or character ones, like _Hello Kitty_? Sensitive fallers could use rainbow colored wedges. If you were in a foul mood, perhaps a gray colored wedge?


----------



## Samlock

South Florida aspen in 1948 - isn't it Cuba?

Paul must be that famous fellow who went to a convent full of cigar rolling nuns to ask for light and ended up a concubine of the 140 years old abbedissa?


----------



## 2dogs

slowp said:


> Another question for an expert.
> 
> How come multicolored wedges aren't in the stores. Or character ones, like _Hello Kitty_? Sensitive fallers could use rainbow colored wedges. If you were in a foul mood, perhaps a gray colored wedge?


 
Rainbow doesn't mean sensitive in California. Maybe wedges could be shaped like a unicorn horn.


----------



## Metals406

Samlock said:


> South Florida aspen in 1948 - isn't it Cuba?
> 
> Paul must be that famous fellow who went to a convent full of cigar rolling nuns to ask for light and ended up a concubine of the 140 years old abbedissa?


 
I know your type. . . One of them rock throwers. :msp_sneaky:


----------



## Philbert

2dogs said:


> Maybe wedges could be shaped like a unicorn horn.


 
I have a couple of the old Oregon 'wood grenade' splitting wedges that are sort of shaped like a unicorn horn. . . .Well, a _short_, Unicorn horn. . . . OK, more like an ice cream cone Never thought about using them for bucking.








(*Internet images - mine are sleeping in the garage)

Philbert


----------



## indiansprings

No unicorn horn, what we need is some 48" long purple wedges to get the maximum lift on those sloping back cuts. Magnesium wedges are good in cold weather. I stick them up my hiney and light them with a propane torch to keep my azz warm. When I bend over to buck a log it looks like I've got a lit sprinkler shooting out, you should see it when I pass gas when I got it lit, yep they magnesium wedges are the chit.
PNW "Hollywood" HBRN take us some pic of all your wedges, we might learn something.


----------



## Metals406

*No, NO*

You take da lime and da coconut and mix dem bote togeder. . . Ya take da lime and da coconut and mix dem bote up.

It relieves bellyachin'!! :rolleyes2:

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aA9OqUuA6a0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## 056 kid

Here's what Im listenin to, well my right mouse button is broken so no cut & paste. Alan Jackson "drive" is the song. been all afternoon/night/morning drinking, it's 5:30, I'm getting ready to un-cork a bottle of cheap white wine and maybe have a few 4 chill pills and plot on who is willing to rise up and wet some lines on this beautiful Sunday morning. Make some conversation in the lonely logger saloon, fry up some home made bologna & fix a pan of corn rolls, slice the ripest mader I got, little mustard, little salad dressing, little salt & pepper, 2 beet pickled eggs and my beverage of choice. 

Aaa, Good morning America how are ya? Hope everyone high balls through the day. I know I'm ready, haha just got nothing to do here on vacation:msp_mad:. .


----------



## 056 kid

Mmm, breakfast was yummy!


----------



## Sport Faller

slowp said:


> Another question for an expert.
> 
> How come multicolored wedges aren't in the stores. Or character ones, like _Hello Kitty_? Sensitive fallers could use rainbow colored wedges. If you were in a foul mood, perhaps a gray colored wedge?


 
put me down for some Fraggle Rock wedges and also a couple Country Bears


----------



## 2dogs

056 kid said:


> Here's what Im listenin to, well my right mouse button is broken so no cut & paste. Alan Jackson "drive" is the song. been all afternoon/night/morning drinking, it's 5:30, I'm getting ready to un-cork a bottle of cheap white wine and maybe have a few 4 chill pills and plot on who is willing to rise up and wet some lines on this beautiful Sunday morning. Make some conversation in the lonely logger saloon, fry up some home made bologna & fix a pan of corn rolls, slice the ripest mader I got, little mustard, little salad dressing, little salt & pepper, 2 beet pickled eggs and my beverage of choice.
> 
> Aaa, Good morning America how are ya? Hope everyone high balls through the day. I know I'm ready, haha just got nothing to do here on vacation:msp_mad:. .


 
Home made bologna?! We must know more.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Home made bologna?! We must know more.


 
Or, then again, maybe not.


----------



## coastalfaller

Gologit said:


> Just for fun, many many years ago, I tried chopping out the face of a tree I wanted to cut for firewood. It was a cedar, about thirty inches DBH. Gave me a whole new appreciation for my ancestors that used to do the same thing with old growth redwood.
> 
> And, I gotta tell you...that was one ugly face cut. Kinda looked like it had been worked over by drunken beavers.


 
No kidding! What those guys did back in the day with the size of the timber they had was simply amazing!


----------



## Gologit

coastalfaller said:


> No kidding! What those guys did back in the day with the size of the timber they had was simply amazing!


 
Yup. My grandfather and his brother were fallers back in those days. We have pictures of them up on scaffolds and springboards chopping out the face on old growth redwoods. Grandfather could always find a falling job because he could swing an axe from either side equally well. Try chopping left handed sometime. I did and it was truly ugly.

My grandfather said that falling them was really the easiest part of the job in the redwoods. Bucking, skidding, and loading those monsters were the real challenges. That fine old tree wasn't worth a nickle 'til you got it to the mill. Some things never change, eh?

When he started logging the teams of oxen were slowly being replaced by steam power and he said that ground lead steam donkeys were what really made production possible. A lot of the machinery they used was custom built for the task at hand. That old rusty iron we see in museums and magazines was state of the art stuff then and those boys thought they were on top of the world. Look at all the old pictures of the crew posed with the machinery and look at the fierce pride on their faces.

He lived long enough to see steam replaced by diesel and the axes and misery whips giving way to chainsaws. He thought chainsaws were pure genius. His only real negative comment about the progress in logging was that the woods were a lot quieter place when they still skidded with oxen. 

Just before he died I took him to the woods with me to watch a special sight. We were logging a five mile long canyon, steep on both sides but gradual grade on each end. Nice wood, big pine and fir, ten sets of fallers, quite a few three log loads. The bottom was being cat logged, the ends each had a yarder set up, and a Sikorsky Skycrane was doing the sides. You could drive around the rim or stand in one spot just above that canyon and see every kind of logging there was. He stood there for a long time, not saying anything, and watched all that logging going on. Finally he said "Its just a little busy for my tastes but those boys sure move the wood". 
We lost him about a month later but he mentioned several times about that trip to the woods. And he remembered everything he saw.


----------



## wyk

Gologit said:


> Try chopping left handed sometime. I did and it was truly ugly.



I had an interesting epiphany in high school. I used to be on both the tennis and baseball varsity teams. One day I was on a tennis court when I realized I was hitting a ball with my backhand fairly well and thought "Why not try it with a baseball bat?". No, I didn't bring my Louisville Slugger to the court - Next time up at bat, I switch hit and found out I was just as good from either side. I thought to myself, "Wow, tennis was good for something!"  Anywho, it also translated to the axe and about everything else.


----------



## Philbert

wyk said:


> One day I was on a tennis court when I realized I was hitting a ball with my backhand fairly well and thought "Why not try it with a baseball bat?".


 
You and Happy Gilmore!







Philbert


----------



## wyk

Philbert said:


> You and Happy Gilmore!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Philbert



"That's my puck, baby, don't you ever touch my puck." 
- Happy Gilmore

Great flick


----------



## Philbert

*A long time ago when the Earth was green . . .*

Unicorn wedges and friends (for when Mr. Fiskars is not enough). Hey! I do have blue wedges!

Both of the 'wood grenades' are Oregon brand. One is steel and one is aluminum. 

Philbert


----------



## 056 kid

2dogs said:


> Home made bologna?! We must know more.


 
I don't make it, but it is made by the folks that run the country store where I get my pickled eggs at. That is one thing I always miss about the PNW, all that delicious southern food!!


----------



## Mastermind

Gologit said:


> Yup. My grandfather and his brother were fallers back in those days. We have pictures of them up on scaffolds and springboards chopping out the face on old growth redwoods. Grandfather could always find a falling job because he could swing an axe from either side equally well. Try chopping left handed sometime. I did and it was truly ugly.
> 
> My grandfather said that falling them was really the easiest part of the job in the redwoods. Bucking, skidding, and loading those monsters were the real challenges. That fine old tree wasn't worth a nickle 'til you got it to the mill. Some things never change, eh?
> 
> When he started logging the teams of oxen were slowly being replaced by steam power and he said that ground lead steam donkeys were what really made production possible. A lot of the machinery they used was custom built for the task at hand. That old rusty iron we see in museums and magazines was state of the art stuff then and those boys thought they were on top of the world. Look at all the old pictures of the crew posed with the machinery and look at the fierce pride on their faces.
> 
> He lived long enough to see steam replaced by diesel and the axes and misery whips giving way to chainsaws. He thought chainsaws were pure genius. His only real negative comment about the progress in logging was that the woods were a lot quieter place when they still skidded with oxen.
> 
> Just before he died I took him to the woods with me to watch a special sight. We were logging a five mile long canyon, steep on both sides but gradual grade on each end. Nice wood, big pine and fir, ten sets of fallers, quite a few three log loads. The bottom was being cat logged, the ends each had a yarder set up, and a Sikorsky Skycrane was doing the sides. You could drive around the rim or stand in one spot just above that canyon and see every kind of logging there was. He stood there for a long time, not saying anything, and watched all that logging going on. Finally he said "Its just a little busy for my tastes but those boys sure move the wood".
> We lost him about a month later but he mentioned several times about that trip to the woods. And he remembered everything he saw.


 
This has got to be one of the best posts I've ever read. Thanks!


----------



## 2dogs

056 kid said:


> I don't make it, but it is made by the folks that run the country store where I get my pickled eggs at. That is one thing I always miss about the PNW, all that delicious southern food!!


 
There a few good markets around here. Corralitos Market in Corralitos and Roy's Swiss Sausage Company in Greenfield stand out. I can't even remember the name of the local meat market. Ahh...more to follow.


----------



## Sport Faller

I kinda forgot this thread was about wedges

here's a heavily customized K&H that looked damn near new before today, notice the weight reducing streamline cut and advanced lift mushroom head


----------



## Rounder

Yep, I've got a few of those hot-rodded wedges myself....lol


----------



## RandyMac

Modified wedges are all the rage.


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> How come multicolored wedges aren't in the stores. Or character ones, like _Hello Kitty_?



I would say that such a thing is unavailable on account of the fact that you haven't started selling them yet.


----------



## 056 kid

2dogs said:


> There a few good markets around here. Corralitos Market in Corralitos and Roy's Swiss Sausage Company in Greenfield stand out. I can't even remember the name of the local meat market. Ahh...more to follow.


 
The place I like is just a few miles from the house, small country store with a deli. They are very well known for their fried chicken which in my opinion is exponentially greater than KFC and friends..


----------



## wyk

Here's one that I custom stream-lined. Makes it MUCH easier to insert them.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Blue Wedge*

I wonder if any of the company's making wedges would do a special run of blue wedges. I think a multi colored wedges would be a nice change from the normal stock colors.


----------



## T_F_E

Madsens sells the blue ox wedges, that are blue.


----------



## madhatte

Their house brand are blue as well.


----------



## lfnh

madhatte said:


> Their house brand are blue as well.


Are those softer than the K&H's ?

are they suitable for sloping back cuts ? sorry, couldn't resist...


----------



## Mastermind

I am by no means a faller. Most of my experience in the woods came from when I was first married and worked at a small local sawmill. We fell and hauled most of our own timber. Everything was done the hard way. We skidded with a tractor and loaded with cant hooks and 6x6 timbers on to flat bed trucks. Everything at the mill was manual labor as well. The slabs we loaded on a ginny and swung them out to dump on a fire. We sawed squares and cross ties for the most part but cut the higher grades into inch lumber. That kind of work sure makes a guy appreciate a loader. 

I've cut my own firewood ever since, and sometime get called on to help get down troublesome trees for my neighbors. I've been reading a lot here and really enjoy having a chance to learn from you guys. :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## bitzer

You would sure think that a pro faller in the PNW would know all about blue wedges. Hell I've never even stepped in the PNW in the lower 48 and I know about them. Farthest west I've ever been is just past the sheep "herders," into the potato patch.


----------



## Philbert

bitzer said:


> You would sure think that a pro faller in the PNW would know all about blue wedges. Hell I've never even stepped in the PNW in the lower 48 and I know about them. Farthest west I've ever been is just past the sheep "herders," into the potato patch.


 
OK, so let me see if I get this:BLUE wedges are for Spruce; RED wedges are for Redwoods; YELLOW (yellow) wedges are for Southern Yellow Pine: GREEN wedges are for misc. Evergreens; ORANGE wedges are for Citrus trees . . . .?

Philbert


----------



## 056 kid

The double taper ones with the red paint on top are nice, they seem harder than some others, and they are smoooth. I don't know why someone would want a bumpy wedge?


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Never new about Madsens till a few years ago. I had a saw shop that I got what ever I needed .If you left a random gift of Jack Daniels on the counter they would give you a few bucks off your orders. I am a scrounger and found a lot of good falling wedges that were lost or discarded in the brush. The color coding is kinda interesting theory. How about blue wedges for old growth, the yellow wedges for soft wood, and the orange for the hardwoods, the red for burned wood and green for jungle falling:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Philbert

056 kid said:


> I don't know why someone would want a bumpy wedge?


 
Supposed to act like teeth or fish hook barbs, to keep them from getting spit back out.

Philbert


----------



## lfnh

056 kid said:


> I don't know why someone would want a bumpy wedge?


 
PIA for stacking, imho.


----------



## Mastermind

Just a quick question for you guys. Do all pro fallers use the famous sloping back cut??? :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## lfnh

Mastermind said:


> Just a quick question for you guys. Do all pro fallers use the famous sloping back cut??? :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


 
uhhhhh, well 


reading between the lines ?


----------



## KiwiBro

bigskyjake said:


> I kinda forgot this thread was about wedges
> 
> here's a heavily customized K&H that looked damn near new before today, notice the weight reducing streamline cut and advanced lift mushroom head



Can you post a video of it against a stock wedge so we can argue about the .24559876 second differential and relative densities of the wood used, please?
I do like the extra white-knuckle section for more grip and the red high-impact mod section. Good thinking on both counts.


----------



## RandyMac

Not every time Randy. To me a sloping back cut was when you were tip down and didn't line up.
Like the stump on the left.


----------



## Philbert

Anybody use metric wedges, for European species?

Philbert


----------



## lfnh

Philbert said:


> Anybody use metric wedges, for European species?
> 
> Philbert


 
are they bar coded ?


----------



## Mastermind

RandyMac said:


> Not every time Randy. To me a sloping back cut was when you were tip down and didn't line up.
> Like the stump on the left.


 
Great picture Randy. I was just having some fun ya know. I took the time to read this whole thread, and really enjoyed it. 

HBRH was a ton of entertainment, but little else.


----------



## madhatte

lfnh said:


> are they bar coded ?


 
Yes, in French.


----------



## lfnh

madhatte said:


> Yes, in French.


 
That figures. Explains a lot of things...


----------



## stihl 440

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Never new about Madsens till a few years ago. I had a saw shop that I got what ever I needed .If you left a random gift of Jack Daniels on the counter they would give you a few bucks off your orders. I am a scrounger and found a lot of good falling wedges that were lost or discarded in the brush. The color coding is kinda interesting theory. How about blue wedges for old growth, the yellow wedges for soft wood, and the orange for the hardwoods, the red for burned wood and green for jungle falling:hmm3grin2orange:


 
Jack daniels huh?........the stories just get better and better. So you "scrounge" for your falling wedges? And your a pro faller?...how come i dont believe you? OK...what is the REAL reson why wedges are colored? MR...PRO FALLER PNW HBRN that is.


----------



## KiwiBro

stihl 440 said:


> OK...what is the REAL reson why wedges are colored?


Everyone knows that's the fault of the same buggers that dreamed up striped socks. They just know that we are going to lose at least one of each colour and have to buy another pair to take matching pairs into the woods. Mark my words, it won't be long before they come up with various striped wedge configurations once they've maxed out the benefits of coloured wedges. Consumerism, like most isms, has plenty to answer for.


----------



## Philbert

KiwiBro said:


> Consumerism, like most isms, has plenty to answer for.


 

They should make them camo. All of the hunters compulsively buy anything camo colored and they would lose many more of them. Replacement sales would zoom!

"Honey, have you see my 8" Trebark wedge? You know I can only use my MossyOak wedges in the spring time, and the Orange is for cutting during deer season!"

Philbert


----------



## RandyMac

I never left a wedge, chewed up or otherwise. Must be a bunch of big spenders up there.


----------



## slowp

Along with empty soup cans, gatorade bottles, Donetto boxes, and other logger flotsam, I have picked up many a busted/cut/no good wedge. I did not take them home, I tossed them in the back of whatever logger crummy or pickup was handy. Wedges don't blow out. Now, empty Donetto boxes do, so I handed those to whoever was handy and gave them The Stinkeye. 

None of the wedges was in good shape, and that was why they were "lost". Blue was the most popular color.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

If you have a belt sander you can keep the wedges in use able shape for some time. Using a belt sander on trow away wedges works quite well.


----------



## stihl 440

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> If you have a belt sander you can keep the wedges in use able shape for some time. Using a belt sander on trow away wedges works quite well.


 
There is a reason they are thrown away.......or "lost".


----------



## slowp

stihl 440 said:


> There is a reason they are thrown away.......or "lost".



Exactly.


----------



## lfnh

A few US patents related to felling wedges.
Didn't find anything that looked like the sleeve/shim wedge set shown in post 281
Perhaps first reference to plastic was in 1965 from Grass Valley.
Thought these were interesting.

Swivel 1916 Gravel Portland Oreg 
Tapered 1956 Overman Sturgis Mich 
Plastic 1965 Hemphill Grass Valley Calif 
Novel 1973 Emerson Lamoni Iowa


----------



## dave k

Thanks INFH the one from 65 looks like what we use now and the last one was interesting.


----------



## 056 kid

RandyMac said:


> Not every time Randy. To me a sloping back cut was when you were tip down and didn't line up.
> Like the stump on the left.


 
Cloudy morning Randy? Cloudy meaning drunk. .


----------



## KiwiBro

Philbert said:


> They should make them camo. All of the hunters compulsively buy anything camo colored and they would lose many more of them. Replacement sales would zoom!
> 
> "Honey, have you see my 8" Trebark wedge? You know I can only use my MossyOak wedges in the spring time, and the Orange is for cutting during deer season!"
> 
> Philbert



That's golden. I can see half a dozen pencil-necks in a board room wetting themselves at the potential of your epiphany. I'm not setting foot in the woods until I can express my own individuality with a double mocha cappuccino scented wedge that's biodegradable and phosphate free, with at least $0.02 ov every purchase going towards a micro enterprise in Botswana.


----------



## Mastermind

lfnh said:


> A few US patents related to felling wedges.
> Didn't find anything that looked like the sleeve/shim wedge set shown in post 281
> Perhaps first reference to plastic was in 1965 from Grass Valley.
> Thought these were interesting.
> 
> Swivel 1916 Gravel Portland Oreg
> Tapered 1956 Overman Sturgis Mich
> Plastic 1965 Hemphill Grass Valley Calif
> Novel 1973 Emerson Lamoni Iowa


 


That last one is very interesting for sure. Thanks for the links!


----------



## Philbert

lfnh said:


> A few US patents related to felling wedges.


 
Interesting and humbling how we joke about this simple tool that others have put so much thought and effort into.

I am sure that the first commercially made plastic wedges were greeted with great skepticism by the old timers.

This post is worth 'real' rep!

Philbert


----------



## paccity

sometimes the simplest tools can be the most usefull.


----------



## lfnh

Mastermind said:


> That last one is very interesting for sure. Thanks for the links!


 
A shot in the dark, but was kinda hoping someone here might
recall Emerson from Lamoni Iowa and if his patent was ever made
commercially or got to try one out.


----------



## wyk

stihl 440 said:


> Jack daniels huh?........the stories just get better and better. So you "scrounge" for your falling wedges? And your a pro faller?...how come i dont believe you? OK...what is the REAL reson why wedges are colored? MR...PRO FALLER PNW HBRN that is.


 
Yup, coz as we all know, propping a $20 bottle of JD on the table sure does save you a couple bucks on the wedges at yer local saw shop.... er...


----------



## wyk

paccity said:


> sometimes the simplest tools can be the most usefull.


 
But the simplest tool on this forum is HBRN...


----------



## Philbert

lfnh said:


> A shot in the dark, but was kinda hoping someone here might recall Emerson from Lamoni Iowa and if his patent was ever made commercially or got to try one out.



I spent some time looking at the drawings and reading the description. Frankly, I am not sure exactly if that one would work. There are no teeth on the 'shims' to hold them in the kerf. Do you suppose that friction between the shims and the wood would be enough to force the wedge in when the jack was pumped? Assuming that nothing broke (hate to see those chains snap!), I would expect the shims to be pulled out first. Maybe he might do better with a chain around the tree, with a Humbolt cut?

Philbert


----------



## lfnh

Philbert said:


> I spent some time looking at the drawings and reading the description. Frankly, I am not sure exactly if that one would work. There are no teeth on the 'shims' to hold them in the kerf. Do you suppose that friction between the shims and the wood would be enough to force the wedge in when the jack was pumped? Assuming that nothing broke (hate to see those chains snap!), I would expect the shims to be pulled out first. Maybe he might do better with a chain around the tree, with a Humbolt cut?
> 
> Philbert


 
Extactly what I was wondering..
Seems like a chain wrap would be tricky to dodge unless the chain were well above or below the back cut (but that would alter the holding angleback to the ram).

Interesting.

was going make another observation, but think i'll let that one go...


----------



## wyk

lfnh said:


> A shot in the dark, but was kinda hoping someone here might
> recall Emerson from Lamoni Iowa and if his patent was ever made
> commercially or got to try one out.


 
I haven't tried one, I don't think. But the reason one of those patents dates 1965 is likely no accident. ABS wasn't readily available to non mass-produced efforts until well into the 60's. Even LEGO had issues at first when they tried to make the switch in 1961 for American production. That's when ABS had a chance against folks using steel wedges that didn't care to carry a bag-full of plastic. I have hit a few non ABS wedges - they are certainly throwaways. But all my ABS wedges that I haven't attacked with my own chain have held up very nicely. I brought back 4 with me to Ireland here that had easily survived me and SF9 smacking em around. I left my metal wedges in Oregon - it was expensive enough to ship my saws as it was. Now I sorta regret it. I found them in the barn along with the 1960's vintage Wetterlings and Collin's axes.


----------



## Philbert

See, these are the kinds of postings that I would like to send you guys 'real' rep on - too bad I've already hit you in the trolling threads, and can't.

Philbert


----------



## wyk

Philbert said:


> See, these are the kinds of postings that I would like to send you guys 'real' rep on - too bad I've already hit you in the trolling threads, and can't.
> 
> Philbert


 
Yer jis saying that so we'll rep ya. WHORE!


----------



## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Never new about Madsens till a few years ago. I had a saw shop that I got what ever I needed .If you left a random gift of Jack Daniels on the counter they would give you a few bucks off your orders. I am a scrounger and found a lot of good falling wedges that were lost or discarded in the brush. The color coding is kinda interesting theory. How about blue wedges for old growth, the yellow wedges for soft wood, and the orange for the hardwoods, the red for burned wood and green for jungle falling:hmm3grin2orange:


 
Say there Reverend but is it really wise to bribe the counter help with spirits? I can't imagine any of the pastors from the church I used to attend buying whiskey in the first place. Or maybe you don't consume alcohol. Do you? 

Either way you're going to hell.


----------



## Mastermind

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Never new about Madsens till a few years ago. I had a saw shop that I got what ever I needed .If you left a random gift of Jack Daniels on the counter they would give you a few bucks off your orders. I am a scrounger and found a lot of good falling wedges that were lost or discarded in the brush. The color coding is kinda interesting theory. How about blue wedges for old growth, the yellow wedges for soft wood, and the orange for the hardwoods, the red for burned wood and green for jungle falling:hmm3grin2orange:





HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Well I am all for it. Judge not less ye be judged. The little country church I frequent is christian based and uses 12 rotating male only pastors. As a pastor my self I hear a lot of the women complain about the suppression of their voice. I do a lot of mobile pastoral work for a few shut ins and the dying. I hear from some of my shut ins that they feel that the male preachers talk down and over the heads of the women in the church. The old male is the superior being attitude has really split some of the local church's apart. Women can do a fine job as clergy, they have a lot of things to offer to the world.


 
I'm sensing a contradiction here. But what do I know??? I don't drink nor am I a pastor.


----------



## 8433jeff

Men, we are all sinners, in need of forgiveness, so I will take the rev at his word.

If a certain well meaning parishioner puts a bottle in the offering plate, said Reverend is charged with finding a use for the given alcohol. JD would make a fine glaze for the annual ham dinner, its really not much of a communion wine, but the Honorable Rev hbrn decided to barter with it. He was only using what the LORD gave him. 

We have no proof it went down like we all think it did, it being a made up thing or the like, but I choose to believe my story, as I took the time to tell you all about it.

Excuse me-the Easter bunny, my neighbor Lucky the leprechaun, and Santa are here to play pinochle.

And may God bless the ministry of Rev hbrn.


----------



## madhatte

And Lo!, Quoth Alvis: "Believer, you have forgotten the true meaning of Alvis Day. Neither is it ham, nor pomp. Nay, the true meaning of Alvis day is drinking. Drinking and revenge... now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk. Then we shall find, and beat the asses of, the nonbelievers who ruined my feast. "


----------



## forestryworks

Jesus was a wino in his missing years.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

The wedge I want to see in action is the one Husky sold that was attached to the exhaust. The owner of the saw shop I use to use was a odd ball in many ways, he like the sauce a little to much sometimes. I think the magnesium wedges are pretty tough compared to the plastic style.


----------



## Philbert

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The wedge I want to see in action is the one Husky sold that was attached to the exhaust.


 
Someone posted a video link of that on A.S. a year or so ago. You might find it if you spend enough time in the Search function or on YouTube.

Philbert


----------



## slowp

[video]http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155558/hare-club-for-men[/video]


----------



## madhatte

I wanna be the "Street Warrior" when I grow up.


----------



## dhskier2

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The wedge I want to see in action is the one Husky sold that was attached to the exhaust.



The Husky Nordfeller

[video=youtube_share;7AGLFLvima4]http://youtu.be/7AGLFLvima4[/video]


----------



## 2dogs

slowp said:


> [video]http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155558/hare-club-for-men[/video]


 
That explains, uh, well. Wait the LSD is wearing off.


----------



## slangegger

For the life of me, I cant figure out why a fella would want to hang around a bunch of people who dont like him. And to top it off, just keep on a goin on and on like he dont even notice. Just dont make any sense..:confused2:


----------



## 8433jeff

Don't think too much about it. He never does.


----------



## forestryworks

slangegger said:


> And to top it off, just keep on a goin on and on like he dont even notice. Just dont make any sense..:confused2:


 
Bunch of energizer bunnies around here just going on and on.


----------



## bitzer

Current prices for black label JD in my area are around $25 for a liter and $45 for a 1.75. Don't know that thats worth a few bucks off a few orders. Any of the specialty JD labels just sky rocket from there. Now if you had said you slap a bottle of Old Thompson on the counter then maybe we'd be talkin. 

For the record, Old thompson is not too bad for old fashioneds as far as cheap #### is concerned. 


If mr. billy is anything he is entertainment and since it has been made clear that he doesn't know #### I think the vast majority of readers will steer clear of his adivce. If not, well, maybe they deserve to be in the same boat with our good pastor. The herd needs to be culled one way or another.


----------



## Mastermind

bitzer said:


> Current prices for black label JD in my area are around $25 for a liter and $45 for a 1.75. Don't know that thats worth a few bucks off a few orders. Any of the specialty JD labels just sky rocket from there. Now if you had said you slap a bottle of Old Thompson on the counter then maybe we'd be talkin.
> 
> For the record, Old thompson is not too bad for old fashioneds as far as cheap #### is concerned.
> 
> 
> If mr. billy is anything he is entertainment and since it has been made clear that he doesn't know #### I think the vast majority of readers will steer clear of his adivce. If not, well, maybe they deserve to be in the same boat with our good pastor. The herd needs to be culled one way or another.


 
Yeah it's been made clear that he don't know his ass from a hill of beans. Even when he posts in the CS forum his "advice" is just the same thing that was posted a few posts before.


----------



## slowp

At the museum I went to in Raymond, they had what looked like an old car bumper jack. The top, which I assumed would go against the top of the cut, had little prongs on it. The notch required to fit the jack in would be about 3 feet high. Then it looked like you had to stand there and jack it up. The thing was sitting alongside the springboards in the museum. 

That jack did not look trustworthy.


----------



## wyk

2dogs said:


> That explains, uh, well. Wait the LSD is wearing off.


 
This should stave off that LSD problem:

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cgmDEy0rqL8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Sport Faller

slowp said:


> At the museum I went to in Raymond, they had what looked like an old car bumper jack. The top, which I assumed would go against the top of the cut, had little prongs on it. The notch required to fit the jack in would be about 3 feet high. Then it looked like you had to stand there and jack it up. The thing was sitting alongside the springboards in the museum.
> 
> That jack did not look trustworthy.


 
I think those were called a Boker, and they were pretty famous for breaking arms


----------



## 2dogs

wyk said:


> This should stave off that LSD problem:
> 
> <iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cgmDEy0rqL8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


 
You're an icehole! I puked on my keyboard and I can't have a shot of Jack Daniels to settle my stomach cause I gave it all to the saw shop


----------



## dave k

I had forgotten about this wedge, it was part of the kit issued with a Stihl BLK to the German army in the 50's. That is a 8" next to it for scale. I remembered about it when I saw the same type of wedge in last years catalogue for a French timbermans supply company I was given the other day. The BLK came complete in a large wooden box with spares, tin oil & fuel cans, funnel and a rather niffty tin chain storage box.
Sorry I still have not mastered this posting pics lark yet.


----------



## Mastermind

Here ya go Dave. I ain't good for much, but I got this.


----------



## wyk

Mastermind said:


> Here ya go Dave. I ain't good for much, but I got this.


 
Is that the eagle on the badge? No swastika, tho, uh?


----------



## 2dogs

I have this mag wedge from Madsen's. Even though it really nice to use as a wedge driver I don't carry it very often.


----------



## 2dogs

Limb locked!


----------



## Hank Chinaski

2dogs said:


> Limb locked!


 
looks kinda like tetris video game...


----------



## paccity

2dogs said:


> Limb locked!


 
shoulda put a slopping back cut in it and then pounded plastic.


----------



## RandyMac

Where your jack buddy? You could have lifted it straight off the hinge.


----------



## dancan

paccity said:


> shoulda put a slopping back cut in it and then pounded plastic.


----------



## 2dogs

paccity said:


> shoulda put a slopping back cut in it and then pounded plastic.


 
Dang why didn't I think of that?


----------



## 2dogs

RandyMac said:


> Where your jack buddy? You could have lifted it straight off the hinge.


 
It's a bummer when the tree actually has to fall where it is gunned. It is a scary time when the hinge breaks and the tree is sitting on the wedges and not falling! Fortunately time was on our side here. Cody went back to the truck for the throw bag and bull rope and when he got back in 15 minutes the tree finally let go. The hinge on this one didn't break.

BTW I don't have a jack but I sure wish I did. If anyone comes across a jack for sale send me a PM.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Limb locked!




:bang: Oh yeah, been there a time or two. That's when you try to get the skid Cat to come over. Or trudge back up the hill (it's always up the hill) and get the jacks that you hadn't brought down the first time because you knew you wouldn't need them.

Save up your nickles and dimes...get a jack. Even that little Silvey HiJacker will get you out of trouble sometimes. I'll keep my eyes and ears open for a good used one but, as a rule, the guys don't ever let them go.


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> shoulda put a slopping back cut in it and then pounded plastic.


 
I don't know if that was a typo or not but "slopping" back cut pretty much sums it up. I think slopping should become the formal term used when describing that particular cut. 

Paccity, you just coined a phrase...good on ya.


----------



## slowp

Did you throw rocks at it?


----------



## 2dogs

slowp said:


> Did you throw rocks at it?


 
I threw rocks at it but then I prayed. The two cancelled each other out/


----------



## slowp

I see the problem! You did not use _The Blue Wedge_.


----------



## 2dogs

slowp said:


> I see the problem! You did not use _The Blue Wedge_.


 
Oh you mean the blue wedges blessed by the Rev and annointed with Jack Daniels?


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Oh you mean the blue wedges blessed by the Rev and annointed with Jack Daniels?


 
If we catch you doing anything the same way that Hbrn does we're going to 5150 you...quick, too.


----------



## 2dogs

Gologit said:


> If we catch you doing anything the same way that Hbrn does we're going to 5150 you...quick, too.


 
Hey it was Patty's idea.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Hey it was Patty's idea.


 
She has a lot of time on her hands for mischief now that she's on the dole.


----------



## Mastermind

slowp said:


> Did you throw rocks at it?


 
I'm lovin it!!!


----------



## Philbert

slowp said:


> I see the problem! You did not use _The Blue Wedge_.


 
Or he could have simply turned the wedges up onto their edges for more lift.


Actually, you _could_ could trim an angle across the face of these wedges and have a high and low lifting option. Just don't know what color to paint them.

Philbert


----------



## 2dogs

Philbert said:


> Or he could have simply turned the wedges up onto their edges for more lift.
> 
> 
> Actually, you _could_ could trim an angle across the face of these wedges and have a high and low lifting option. Just don't know what color to paint them.
> 
> Philbert


 
Or I could just buy a triple taper wedge but then the yellow color messes up my feng shui.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> She has a lot of time on her hands for mischief now that she's on the dole.



Yup. I sit here in my rocker, smoke, swill Yukon Jack and yell at the neighbors. Except they live too far away and are usually operating some kind of noisy equipment. But I still can yell. 

It is my fault the guvmint is broke!


----------



## slowp

2dogs said:


> Or I could just buy a triple taper wedge but then the yellow color messes up my feng shui.



Actually, upon close examination of the photo, I'm thinking that using the green wedge was wrong. The balance is off--the harmony is not there. Now, had you duplicated the lime green on the other side, harmony would be restored, the tree would happily topple over, and all would be harmonic in the world.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Yup. I sit here in my rocker, smoke, swill Yukon Jack and yell at the neighbors. Except they live too far away and are usually operating some kind of noisy equipment. But I still can yell.
> 
> It is my fault the guvmint is broke!


 
You've taken up smoking? The rest I can believe...but _smoking?_


----------



## 2dogs

Well I admit I'm no artist. How about you come on down and pack wedges and stack them for me. Then we can stand back and throw rocks at the trees. I'll even fill your canteen with Jack.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> You've taken up smoking? The rest I can believe...but _smoking?_



Nah, not really, they cost too much. Maybe when I am 80. 

The Used Dog is a good wedge packer. But no orange wedges. They clash with his pink pack.


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> I don't know if that was a typo or not but "slopping" back cut pretty much sums it up. I think slopping should become the formal term used when describing that particular cut.
> 
> Paccity, you just coined a phrase...good on ya.


 
typo ? yes. if that is going to be the term for it now thats what it shall be.


----------



## slowp

View attachment 190757
View attachment 190758
View attachment 190759


No wedges needed. The cow audience appeared after the ant antics. The bigger bull was supposed to be sent to the freezer today, but that was cancelled. The Used Dog, that mangy cur, was hunkered in the pickup cab when the bovines appeared.


----------



## Rounder

2dogs said:


> Oh you mean the blue wedges blessed by the Rev and annointed with Jack Daniels?


 
I was going to stay away from this ####, but the wiskey on the counter thing put me over the edge.

Know how I get discounts at the saw shop? A LOT of them?? I'm a loyal customer and I spend A LOT of MONEY their every year. Why?? Because I make my living as a TIMBER ####ING FALLER. Everyday Goddammit.

Sorry, rant over. Tired, sore, and irritated. Where the #### did I put that Beam?!

You all have a good weekend, stay busy - Sam

PS- We were talking wedges right? Lol.


----------



## Mastermind

mtsamloggit said:


> I was going to stay away from this ####, but the wiskey on the counter thing put me over the edge.
> 
> Know how I get discounts at the saw shop? A LOT of them?? I'm a loyal customer and I spend A LOT of MONEY there every year. Why?? Because I make my living as a TIMBER ####ING FALLER. Everyday Goddammit.
> 
> Sorry, rant over. Tired, sore, and irritated. Where the #### did I put that Beam?!
> 
> You all have a good weekend, stay busy - Sam
> 
> PS- We were talking wedges right? Lol.


 
Multi colored wedges I do believe.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> I was going to stay away from this ####, but the wiskey on the counter thing put me over the edge.
> 
> Know how I get discounts at the saw shop? A LOT of them?? I'm a loyal customer and I spend A LOT of MONEY their every year. Why?? Because I make my living as a TIMBER ####ING FALLER. Everyday Goddammit.
> 
> Sorry, rant over. Tired, sore, and irritated. Where the #### did I put that Beam?!
> 
> You all have a good weekend, stay busy - Sam
> 
> PS- We were talking wedges right? Lol.


 
Sam, I'll be in Zoo Town Tue-Thur of this upcoming week. Let's hook-up with Cody and swallow a few.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Sam, I'll be in Zoo Town Tue-Thur of this upcoming week. Let's hook-up with Cody and swallow a few.


 
Sounds good Nate. Give me a call.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Sounds good Nate. Give me a call.


 
We'll be done hanging stairs around 7pm every night. . . You be up to a GTG that late?  I know the woods beckon early in the AM.


----------



## Rounder

I could probably do one or two more small ones at 7:00. No more than 3. 4 is okay. 5 will work. But absolutly no more than 10!!

That'll work, getting up at 3:30 lately, so I ain't much of a night owl.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> View attachment 190757
> View attachment 190758
> View attachment 190759
> 
> 
> No wedges needed. The cow audience appeared after the ant antics. The bigger bull was supposed to be sent to the freezer today, but that was cancelled. The Used Dog, that mangy cur, was hunkered in the pickup cab when the bovines appeared.


 
I like that bumper sticker.


----------



## hammerlogging

me too.


----------



## slowp

Hmmmm. I wonder where I got it? It is stuck on. No magnets this time.


----------



## Gologit

hammerlogging said:


> me too.


 
PM me an address and I'll see if I can find another one.


----------



## dancan

I need more wedge .


----------



## RandyMac

dancan said:


> I need more wedge .


 
Dude!


----------



## forestryworks

Gologit said:


> I like that bumper sticker.


 


hammerlogging said:


> me too.


 
Me 3!


----------



## wyk

dancan said:


> I need more wedge .


 
All ya need to do now is place a sloping back cut and meet it up at the hinge. Get'r dooooooone!


----------



## dancan

wyk said:


> All ya need to do now is place a sloping back cut and meet it up at the hinge. Get'r dooooooone!


 
Dayum ! Why didn't I think of that !


----------



## dancan

I just thought of the sloping back-kut and shazam !


----------



## Mastermind

dancan said:


> I just thought of the sloping back-kut and shazam !


 
Yeah the sloping back cut has the *power* of BS.


----------



## Gologit

dancan said:


> I just thought of the sloping back-kut and shazam !


 
Dan, we're calling that the slopping back-cut now. That's what Paccity calls it and I think it fits.


----------



## dancan

Gologit said:


> Dan, we're calling that the slopping back-cut now. That's what Paccity calls it and I think it fits.


 
I'll take it as a compliment and wear it with pride ! (I hope that's what you meant )


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

There is such a thing as not having enough wedges. The shorter the wedge the more lift available in a shorter distance. Having a variety of sizes will save a lot head scratchin when you can not get the tree to fall.


----------



## Mastermind

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> There is such a thing as not having enough wedges. The shorter the wedge the more lift available in a shorter distance. Having a variety of sizes will save a lot head scratchin when you can not get the tree to fall.


 
All righty then!


----------



## slowp

*A Bucking Faux Pas*

There were no rocks to be found. I drop started the Barbie Saw for the first time though. I also chose the wedge color to match the Barbie Saw. 









View attachment 190875


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

With a short wedge on smaller tree it will allow the faller to rev the saw to trim up the hinge and tap the wedge in.


----------



## paccity




----------



## Rounder

slowp said:


> *A Bucking Faux Pas*
> 
> There were no rocks to be found. I drop started the Barbie Saw for the first time though. I also chose the wedge color to match the Barbie Saw.
> 
> Very nice color coordination. I am afraid my wedges will clash with my saw now. Dammit!!
> 
> That is a nice 44. Did you ever get your 031 going? Good old saws - Sam


----------



## slowp

mtsamloggit said:


> slowp said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Bucking Faux Pas*
> 
> There were no rocks to be found. I drop started the Barbie Saw for the first time though. I also chose the wedge color to match the Barbie Saw.
> 
> Very nice color coordination. I am afraid my wedges will clash with my saw now. Dammit!!
> 
> That is a nice 44. Did you ever get your 031 going? Good old saws - Sam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'll have to go get a blue wedge on my next going to town trip. Just because I can.
> 
> Yes, the 032 runs well. I find it works better than The Barbie Saw to make Scandihoovian candles with. The saw shop guys cleaned the carb and replaced something. They are good guys and I don't even have to leave a cheap can of beer to get good service.
> The Barbie Saw sucks the candles in and over. The 032 being less power will cut the grooves. I cut some longer chunks tuday ven I run into a knotty section and have 3 more candles tu make. Yah dur hey.
Click to expand...


----------



## RandyMac

Sweetp, you lift my spirits


----------



## Cedar Ed

Wells Wedges have been holding up very well I may say.And they are Well made.Made in U.S.A.Can anyone guess where?Here is a clue,PNW.


----------



## Philbert

*Back to wedges . . .*

I was looking at the different wedges in the current Bailey's sale catalog, and in that non-sponsor's catalog in Centralia. 

I use wedges almost exclusively for bucking storm damaged trees. This wood has lots of interesting stresses, and wedges are cheap insurance to _reduce_ binding and pinching. Almost any plastic wedge works for my needs. And frankly, now that I use them, I can't imagine how I ever cut without them.

But I am curious about the Hard-Head wedges with the metal caps. Seems like a good idea. Do these last much longer for felling? Worth the 50% premium in price?

Thanks.

Philbert


----------



## wyk

Philbert said:


> But I am curious about the Hard-Head wedges with the metal caps. Seems like a good idea. Do these last much longer for felling? Worth the 50% premium in price?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Philbert


 
If you are losing wedges from smacking them, maybe. But if I hit mine square, they last a long time. Although I did smack the fusheezuz out of one of SawFun9's wedges with the edge of the axe butt once. It didn't like it at all. It gave up the ghost right there. That was one of the red and white wedges from Baileys, if I recall. I was a bit embarrassed.

Got a URL for yer question?


----------



## Philbert

wyk said:


> Got a URL for yer question?


 
? Not sure what you are asking, but here are some links to these wedges from site sponsors:

Bailey's - 10" Hard-Head Falling Wedge
Tree Stuff - Hard Head Felling Wedge

Philbert


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Hard Head*

The hard head style of wedge is the best choice for big trees that need the ####in snot beat out of them. Plastic needs to hit square and solid. The hard heads I buy are made of some really plastic. The hard head is what my dad and I use on the old growth pondos on the ranch, my old man is a wedge masher. I replaced the ranch's old chewed up felling wedges with a pile of Stihl brand wedges and they have survived quite well. Hard head wedges can be real help when you jam a non hard head wedge tight to the bark.


----------



## jerrycmorrow

forestryworks said:


> Jesus was a wino in his missing years.


 
not that i believe it but good john prine quote


----------



## Mastermind

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The hard head style of wedge is the best choice for big trees that need the ####in snot beat out of them. Plastic needs to hit square and solid. The hard heads I buy are made of some really plastic. The hard head is what my dad and I use on the old growth pondos on the ranch, my old man is a wedge masher. I replaced the ranch's old chewed up felling wedges with a pile of Stihl brand wedges and they have survived quite well. Hard head wedges can be real help when you jam a non hard head wedge tight to the bark.


 
Well of course.


----------



## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The hard head style of wedge is the best choice for big trees that need the ####in snot beat out of them. Plastic needs to hit square and solid. The hard heads I buy are made of some really plastic. The hard head is what my dad and I use on the old growth pondos on the ranch, my old man is a wedge masher. I replaced the ranch's old chewed up felling wedges with a pile of Stihl brand wedges and they have survived quite well. Hard head wedges can be real help when you jam a non hard head wedge tight to the bark.


 
Have you experienced any problems with the caps of hard head plastic wedges breaking off ?

What brand of hard head - Stihl ?


----------



## mdavlee

Stihl doesn't make a hard head wedge that I've seen. The stihl look just like the k&h but orange. They have the same mold marks on the same size wedges. The hard head is a different brand.


----------



## Philbert

lfnh said:


> What brand of hard head - Stihl ?


 
Hard Head is a brand name - see links in Post #666 (yikes! over 600 posts in this thread!?!) above.

But that was part of my question - if the metal cap ever becomes a sharp edge/hazard after getting beat enough.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert

Looks like this is the manufacturer: Tree Faller Wedges - Hard Head Manufactured with High Impact Poly Plastic :: Beaver State Plastics

They make: 
Hard Head - full metal cap with metal tang to help drive wedge and reduce mushrooming;
Hard Head Jr - metal tang only to help drive wedge;
Hard Body - general plastic wedge.

Looks like they will also make custom colors!!!! I can get purple for the Minnesota Vikings !!! - oh wait, they might move to Los Angeles next year if we don't build them a stadium. Never mind.

Philbert


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

This to funny to know that I drive by there on the way in to my future mother in laws house I may need to stop and see if I can get some seconds from them. I like the idea of custom colors.


----------



## Philbert

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> This to funny to know that I drive by there on the way in to my future mother in laws house I may need to stop and see if I can get some seconds from them. I like the idea of custom colors.


 
Get me some too (would those be 'thirds'?) for the good info.

Philbert


----------



## 2dogs

Be careful with the hardhead wedges. They can spit pieces of steel off at supersonic speed and driving the is hard on the elbows. Plus they are heavy. Mine stay in the truck till needed. Which is not often.


----------



## slowp

Here is The Blue Wedge. They were also having a sale on Stihl bars, at least there was a sign saying so.











Actually, it looks more of a Teal color to me.
View attachment 191514
View attachment 191515


----------



## promac850

Eh, looks blue to me... but what do I know, I'm partially color blind... :jester:


----------



## Philbert

slowp said:


> Here is The Blue Wedge.


 
Well, they only seem to sell them there, and I am too cheap to pay for shipping. So I guess I will have to take a trip out there sometime!

(Actually they look just like the yellow 'Wells' ones I have, except for the color. Wood grain textured on one side and smooth on the other? But they could be a harder or softer plastic).

Philbert


----------



## robfromaz1977

slowp said:


> Here is The Blue Wedge. They were also having a sale on Stihl bars, at least there was a sign saying so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it looks more of a Teal color to me.
> View attachment 191514
> View attachment 191515


 
Those look exactly like orange ones Baileys sells under the Woodland Pro name.


----------



## slowp

Hmmmm. Am I starting to see that there is a Wedge Conspiracy? :msp_ohmy:


----------



## RandyMac

got me thinking of a wedge of blueberry cheesecake.


----------



## Joe46

Probably my most favorite dessert:msp_thumbsup:


----------



## slowp

RandyMac said:


> got me thinking of a wedge of blueberry cheesecake.



Tomorrow is supposed to be nice. I may take off and go huckleberry scouting. I think there is bad news to be found in the huckleberry patches this year...again.


----------



## 8433jeff

RandyMac said:


> got me thinking of a wedge of blueberry cheesecake.


 
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, PIE!

Close enough for me, anyways.


----------



## Philbert

slowp said:


> Tomorrow is supposed to be nice. I may take off and go huckleberry scouting


 
Watch out for bears!

Philbert


----------



## promac850

Philbert said:


> Watch out for bears!
> 
> Philbert


 
No kidding... make sure you got at least a .357 Magnum on ya... them bears ain't to be fooled around with...


----------



## forestryworks

It don't pay to be silent in bear country!


----------



## promac850

forestryworks said:


> It don't pay to be silent in bear country!


 
True, make some noise. They tend to shy away... unless it's a momma bear... with cubs... if you see one, slowly back away without making eye contact, but still seeing the bear and where she is... or run... maybe she will leave you alone.

If she don't, either shoot, or play dead. Either most likely would save your ass.


----------



## Mastermind

I likes me some pie!!!!! :cool2:


----------



## Rounder

forestryworks said:


> It don't pay to be silent in bear country!


 
No it doesn't. Or to have a dumb ass bird dog that leads them back to you, lol. Wife's dog.... not mine. Mine is a perfect angel.....................umpkin2:


----------



## slowp

You guys are ascared of bears? Our Western Warshington bears are ascared of us. They get hunted once and sometimes twice a year. I'll maybe see a rump as one is running away. Never had problems with them, even in the huckleberry patches. 

Let me see, last spring while out doing some recon for possible units, there was poop in the road, old, not so old, fresher and ruh roh. I never saw the bear but The Used Dog was along and was looking over the edge of the road with his hair up and barking ferociously. There were a lot of freshly girdled trees. 

I don't expect to see a bear. Just mosquitoes and flies.


----------



## 8433jeff

slowp said:


> You guys are ascared of bears? Our Western Warshington bears are ascared of us. They get hunted once and sometimes twice a year. I'll maybe see a rump as one is running away. Never had problems with them, even in the huckleberry patches.
> 
> Let me see, last spring while out doing some recon for possible units, there was poop in the road, old, not so old, fresher and ruh roh. I never saw the bear but The Used Dog was along and was looking over the edge of the road with his hair up and barking ferociously. There were a lot of freshly girdled trees.
> 
> I don't expect to see a bear. Just mosquitoes and flies.


 
Mosquitoes and bitey flies? I'll bake a cake.

Here it seems every low spot has a green scum on it, perfect breeding grounds for skeeters, and they seem to be setting up waves to attack you including forward air controllers, fighter support, and refuelers. Even the lawn in the heat of the day is no longer safe unless you've showered with deet, much less trying to head into the woods.


----------



## robfromaz1977

promac610 said:


> No kidding... make sure you got at least a .357 Magnum on ya... them bears ain't to be fooled around with...


 
I would carry may Redhawk in 45 Colt with some good handloads. My wife took claim to my GP100 after we got married.


----------



## slowp

Ummmmmn, now who knows more about local bears, a local or guys from AZ and some back east state. Hmmmm. I wonder???? Hunting season for bears starts Aug. 1 and then I am way more worried about getting shot by a hunter than attacked by a bear. There seems to be a "mistook a person for a bear" kill each year.

I survived. The Used Dog Survived our hike. We only got a mile or so in because then the ice age began and the glaciers were unstable--I don't like to posthole or snowshoe. We heard a crashing in the brush below and decided from recent tracks that it was most likely an elk. 

On the way up, Bob The Faller was there changing out of his boots. He was done cutting for the day. I told him that retirement was good. We agreed that the timber in the area was crappy. 

Here's some photos of The Used Dog and a Cornice, and where the ice age begins...I think I was around 5000 feet in elevation. 

















View attachment 191627
View attachment 191628
View attachment 191629


----------



## robfromaz1977

As for being scared of bears I would say not really. But I have lots of respect for them. Here is a pic of me back in 94 with one I shot with my bow. I didn't have a gun with me either. I took this bear only 20 miles from where I live. And yes most bears will run away when people get near them but not allways. A lady was mauled by a bear just 45 miles away in another town a few weeks ago.


----------



## Philbert

Several years back there was a European couple mauled to death in Yellowstone park. Somehow, I recall that one was from Hungary and the other was from Czechoslovakia? 

Anyway, it was unusual in that the rangers determined that a pair of bears did the mauling. They tracked down and shot a male and female bear. They autopsied the mama bear and found traces of the Hungarian’s clothing, so they just assumed that the Czech was in the male. . . .


----------



## Joe46

Philbert said:


> Several years back there was a European couple mauled to death in Yellowstone park. Somehow, I recall that one was from Hungary and the other was from Czechoslovakia?
> 
> Anyway, it was unusual in that the rangers determined that a pair of bears did the mauling. They tracked down and shot a male and female bear. They autopsied the mama bear and found traces of the Hungarian’s clothing, so they just assumed that the Czech was in the male. . . .


 
BaDa Boom An oldy but still a goody. A week after we left Cody, Wy last year some old boy that had a cabin in the area was eaten by a Grizzly. Seems he was released just a couple of hours prior to the attack. He was probably still pissed from being manhandled by humans.


----------



## slowp

robfromaz1977 said:


> As for being scared of bears I would say not really. But I have lots of respect for them. Here is a pic of me back in 94 with one I shot with my bow. I didn't have a gun with me either. I took this bear only 20 miles from where I live. And yes most bears will run away when people get near them but not allways. A lady was mauled by a bear just 45 miles away in another town a few weeks ago.
> 
> And are you a local (meaning here) expert? Do you know the conditions here?
> 
> The only people who are that ascared of bears are the city people who come here to recreate. There was ONE road builder guy but he was always seeing scary things.
> 
> This is not Yellowstone, nor Montana, nor Pennslytucky, nor Arizona. I assume a grizzly probably wanders down here once in a while. But I've been left alone. I'm used to being in the woods *here*. You?
> 
> Maybe I'm sensitive because this is the subject that I get extremely tired of. It went like this. I'd get flagged down in my Forest Service pickup for some important questioning. Like, where are the elk? Can we take our pickups behind the locked gate to go pick up the deer we shot? Etc. Then the same old ****. Aren't you afraid to be out here? Aren't you afraid of the bears? You need to carry a gun....and the thought went through my head that maybe it was a good idea then I could shoot the stupid city people and shut them up. It gets real old. Every year. And now on this forum? That really sucks.


----------



## promac850

slowp said:


> robfromaz1977 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for being scared of bears I would say not really. But I have lots of respect for them. Here is a pic of me back in 94 with one I shot with my bow. I didn't have a gun with me either. I took this bear only 20 miles from where I live. And yes most bears will run away when people get near them but not allways. A lady was mauled by a bear just 45 miles away in another town a few weeks ago.
> 
> And are you a local (meaning here) expert? Do you know the conditions here?
> 
> The only people who are that ascared of bears are the city people who come here to recreate. There was ONE road builder guy but he was always seeing scary things.
> 
> This is not Yellowstone, nor Montana, nor Pennslytucky, nor Arizona. I assume a grizzly probably wanders down here once in a while. But I've been left alone. I'm used to being in the woods *here*. You?
> 
> Maybe I'm sensitive because this is the subject that I get extremely tired of. It went like this. I'd get flagged down in my Forest Service pickup for some important questioning. Like, where are the elk? Can we take our pickups behind the locked gate to go pick up the deer we shot? Etc. Then the same old ****. Aren't you afraid to be out here? Aren't you afraid of the bears? You need to carry a gun....and the thought went through my head that maybe it was a good idea then I could shoot the stupid city people and shut them up. It gets real old. Every year. And now on this forum? That really sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> City? I don't live out in the city. All I know is I wouldn't be going about without a powerful handgun in the woods that have bears. Better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it... I honestly think it's lack of planning for the unexpected for someone to travel out in the woods where bears are present...
> 
> Also, I am not scared of bears, I respect them. They are powerful animals, and that being said, I don't think it's very wise for anyone to travel in their habitat without the means to defend themselves from one of nature's great beasts. Not worried about elk either? Well, they have attacked humans too... so either way, a good old revolver or Desert Eagle, at least .357 Mag or larger, is a wise idea... just in case something goes awry when you least expect it to.
Click to expand...


----------



## RandyMac

Bears are a minor hazard, panthers on the other hand are not.


----------



## slowp

promac610 said:


> slowp said:
> 
> 
> 
> City? I don't live out in the city. All I know is I wouldn't be going about without a powerful handgun in the woods that have bears. Better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it... I honestly think it's lack of planning for the unexpected for someone to travel out in the woods where bears are present...
> 
> Also, I am not scared of bears, I respect them. They are powerful animals, and that being said, I don't think it's very wise for anyone to travel in their habitat without the means to defend themselves from one of nature's great beasts. Not worried about elk either? Well, they have attacked humans too... so either way, a good old revolver or Desert Eagle, at least .357 Mag or larger, is a wise idea... just in case something goes awry when you least expect it to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then ya better not come here. You'd be overloaded with all that extra weight. You'd be scared to death.
> 
> I've hiked through the snow following a P-line to see how far a road was along in the construction phase. On the way back, found cougar tracks in my tracks. I continued to work in the woods, gunless, for many years.
> 
> What is your experience level in the woods? How many years have you worked in the woods?
Click to expand...


----------



## Gologit

promac610 said:


> slowp said:
> 
> 
> 
> City? I don't live out in the city. All I know is I wouldn't be going about without a powerful handgun in the woods that have bears. Better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it... I honestly think it's lack of planning for the unexpected for someone to travel out in the woods where bears are present...
> 
> Also, I am not scared of bears, I respect them. They are powerful animals, and that being said, I don't think it's very wise for anyone to travel in their habitat without the means to defend themselves from one of nature's great beasts. Not worried about elk either? Well, they have attacked humans too... so either way, a good old revolver or Desert Eagle, at least .357 Mag or larger, is a wise idea... just in case something goes awry when you least expect it to.
> 
> 
> 
> Promac...
> 
> Well hell, why mess around with small arms? Maybe you better put the Air Force on standby for some strafing runs. Get the Army Helicopter boys in on it too..a little napalm can't hurt.
> 
> I've got it...how about a hand held low yield nuclear device? That should make you feel safe out there 'mongst the wild creatures. Maybe you'll get to nuke a ferocious squirrel or woodchuck.
> 
> I see bears all the time. Our logging tears up the ground and sends their prey scurrying about looking for shelter. If we don't bother them they don't bother us. If you make one feel threatened or if you're dumb enough to come between a mama and her cub they'll protect themselves. Most of them just run away.
Click to expand...


----------



## hammerlogging

I have plenty of bears here and I had them in WV. Just the other week I was laying out some skid trails and my dog ran around a piont and started barking all tough. I saw about 50 feet up a big old ash 2 cubs prancing around, I got me and the Ruby out fo there, course Ijust walked about 400' away and then stopped for lunch. Not but a few days later I was falling in a holler and a boy bear walked by just above me while I was filling up with fuel and bar oil and making a chain switch. Not more than 30 feet above me, it was steep so he was... right above me. Well, after a few minutes, with the call of timber anxiously awaiting, hell, I couldn't just stand there. Walked off and got back to it. He stayed in the area for 30 minutes or so, then never saw him again.

That was actually one of the only times recently that I felt sort of bad for wiping out a little block of timber, nice little bear had a good home with some killer super big timber (right there where that poplar pic came from). But heck, carry on, he'll be all right.

I don't carry a gun when I'm doing forestry work. I usually take Ruby. definately don't think about it when I'm falling thoguh hiking in early some mornings I wonder what i might surprise. II do know that when I used to walk to my cabin in black of night fog and rain from the main house after a night of dinner and revelry at the farm in NorCal I sure as hell felt like mtn lion bait


----------



## Rounder

Only time I've been worried about a bear was on a job up in the Swan Valley. Momma Griz and cubs were always hanging out within a few hundred yards of the boundary. Etiquette says go across that line for the morning sermon. Kind of interesting when you were walking past piles of her previous morning's sermon. Seems like that would be a terrible way to go, pants around your ankles and all. Never bumped into her though.


----------



## paccity

i think some people that go into the woods let there imagnations get the best of them. no worries.


----------



## Mastermind

This thread has taken some twists and turns. 

I enjoy being in the woods as much as anything I can think of. I have been an avid hunter, hunting with every legal weapon. The only time I found myself afraid was while I was hunting with a bow. It was about an hour before daylight and I had spent over an hour getting into the area. Just as everything was beginning to settle down from my trek in a group of coyotes started yipping and being a general nuisance. That was something I was used to, I never gave it much thought. What scared me was a sound I had never heard before. It was loud, really loud. Sounded like an insane man screaming at the top of his lungs. The coyotes shut up, and that scared me even more. Everything was quiet, way too quiet. After a little bit the coyotes started their yipping around again, but this time they were right on top of me, on both sides, it was a little unnerving. It was then that the screaming started again, my hair was standing up all over my body, the coyotes shut up and never made another sound. I was damn glad to see the sun coming up that morning! I still have no idea what made that noise, I've never heard anything like it since. Anyone heard anything like that before?


----------



## paccity

sasquatch.


----------



## Jed1124

I don't know if you have them out your way but Fischer cats make a pretty bad scream when they are threatened or fighting with something. I've had them wake me up in the middle of the night and the sound of there scream makes my hair stand up laying in bed!


----------



## RandyMac

Randy, have you listened to the recorded screams of Bigfoot?
My brother hunts them in the Klamath area.

http://www.bluenorth.com/klamath_recording.htm


----------



## wyk

Wow - from wedges to firearms! 

Well, my feelings about firearms are sort of summed up as follows:

It's not when things go smoothly that you ever need a firearm - it's for when things go completely out out of whack. The only way to plan to be armed for when things go out of whack is to carry a gun when things look peachy. Out in the woods, we don't have complete control over nature, but we have control over the kit we put together. We don't carry a gun for animals that are frightened of us and run off - it's for the ones that decided to chance it with us that day. Animals aren't the only things that may cause trouble in the woods, too. There's people out there that may want to do harm as well. In the end, regardless of the chances or stats of running in to trouble, you only have the one life and the one chance when it does present itself. A 4" 44 mag in a backpack could be the difference between you telling the story, or the news media telling it.

Still, I think a sword and a shield may be taking it a bit far vs packing some heat in yer satchel:







Whatever you guys do, make sure you practice and get competent with yer heater:


----------



## Gologit

Okay, confession time. I do carry a gun when I go to the woods. It's an ancient 30/30 that I keep wrapped in a greasy blanket and stashed behind the back seat with assorted tools, old contracts, and other spare parts. 
All this talk about guns in the woods made me curious so I unwrapped it and looked at it last night. It looks just the same as it did when I put it there three years ago. Before that it was in another crummy and I probably haven't fired it in ten years or more. Hell, I probably haven't taken it out of the blanket in five.
I'll give it a good cleaning tonight...it's pretty grubby. And I'll replace the green ammo...if I can get it out. Never know when I might get attacked by a rabid chipmunk or something.


----------



## promac850

Scared? Paranoid? What the hell do I have to be scared of or all freaked out or paranoid of when I've got a gun?

I know that most bears shy away, but how about the possible rabid bear... or one that is injured... they act much more aggressively than your average yogi bear...

RandyMac is right about them panthers (mountain lions? I assume that's what you're talking about...) too many stories of people innocently biking through the woods and BAM!! pounced by a panther.

If I've got a .357 Magnum, I don't need no air support or overkill means to protect me ass from a crazy bear. It would stay put, and come out if, and only if, a potentially deadly situation arises between me, a bear, or God forbid, a two legged predator...

Seems like some of you are more scared of guns than bears. Crazy. 

A loaded .44 Mag on the table, hammer down, is entirely incapable of harming anyone... it takes the mechanical action of someone pulling the trigger to activate the big boom feature. Or a real hot fire, then it's possible that flame engulfed cartridge(s) would heat up the powder enough that spontaneous combustion occurs. Even with the hammer back, it still would take either a person pulling the trigger, or a real hard drop, on the hammer, to get the gun to go boom.

Rabid chipmunk go "Ka-BOOM" after meeting soft point bullet from .30-30...


----------



## promac850

paccity said:


> sasquatch.


 
[video=youtube_share;nyVsHNEBeBk]http://youtu.be/nyVsHNEBeBk[/video]


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Okay, confession time. I do carry a gun when I go to the woods. It's an ancient 30/30 that I keep wrapped in a greasy blanket and stashed behind the back seat with assorted tools, old contracts, and other spare parts.
> All this talk about guns in the woods made me curious so I unwrapped it and looked at it last night. It looks just the same as it did when I put it there three years ago. Before that it was in another crummy and I probably haven't fired it in ten years or more. Hell, I probably haven't taken it out of the blanket in five.
> I'll give it a good cleaning tonight...it's pretty grubby. And I'll replace the green ammo...if I can get it out. Never know when I might get attacked by a rabid chipmunk or something.


 
bob. i call them sabre tooth mountain weasels around here. singley there not bad, but in groups of five or more watch out.


----------



## slowp

promac610 said:


> Seems like some of you are more scared of guns than bears. Crazy.
> 
> A loaded .44 Mag on the table, hammer down, is entirely incapable of harming anyone... it takes the mechanical action of someone pulling the trigger to activate the big boom feature. Or a real hot fire, then it's possible that flame engulfed cartridge(s) would heat up the powder enough that spontaneous combustion occurs. Even with the hammer back, it still would take either a person pulling the trigger, or a real hard drop, on the hammer, to get the gun to go boom.
> 
> Rabid chipmunk go "Ka-BOOM" after meeting soft point bullet from .30-30...



No, I just get tired of this crap being told to me by *boys *and men who go into the woods once or twice a year and must therefore know a heck of a lot more than some old woman. It is old. It is tiresome. I don't want to carry any extra weight. I'm comfortable in the woods, been wandering in the woods PROFESSIONALLY for 30+ years, the Forest Service will not employees carry a firearm, and I have my Used Dog. Amazingly, I've survived. I didn't know I worked in such a terrifying place. 

Funny, I have come across bears in close range maybe twice. No problems.

Rabid chipmunks? Now you are sounding like a 13 year old video game junkie. You haven't told us how long you have worked in the woods.

Now, in a few years, I may have to start carrying something. Wolves have been dumped in our state and the bunny huggers are talking about dumping grizzlies. Maybe I should just take up video game playing and fantasize about shooting little cute chippymonks.


----------



## slowp

paccity said:


> bob. i call them sabre tooth mountain weasels around here. singley there not bad, but in groups of five or more watch out.



The worst wildlife "attacks" I've ever encountered were in the Grand Canyon. They didn't have bear problems down in the canyon, they had everything else trying to get into your pack. I left my legendary ziplock bag of trailmix out on the table for an instant, and there was one of them rabid chipmonk squirrels chewing a hole in it. We scared it back a bit, and repaired the bag with duck tape. 

There were two male turkeys that would go around looking for handouts. I gave them a good tap with my hiking poles, which become crutches shortly after you sit down after hiking to the bottom from the top--8 miles of stairs. The horrified looks I got from the neighboring campers! The turkeys never bothered our campsite again. The campsites all had varmint proof boxes or hangers. You used them or lost stuff to the vicious rabid animals. 

The next day, limping on the way back up, my friend put her pack down and laid down for a nap. A little rabid ground squirrel immediately hopped on her pack and started to chew. I yelled, and she shooed it off. 

On the top, there was a deer causing a traffic jam. The deer was standing in the middle of the road asking for more handouts. It even licked some windshields. It had no thumbs so couldn't use a squeegee.

Want to be around dangerous animals? Go to a National Park. Not a National Forest but a Park.


----------



## Cedarkerf

The biggest problem I have with bears is when they ransack the neighbor hood garbage cans. Neighbor shot a 375 poundr in his front yardlast year our garbage problem went away. In the fall I go up to mount Rainier and look for them in spray park with the camera. Had a 250 pounder run across the road night before last.

View attachment 191695


----------



## promac850

slowp said:


> No, I just get tired of this crap being told to me by *boys *and men who go into the woods once or twice a year and must therefore know a heck of a lot more than some old woman. It is old. It is tiresome. I don't want to carry any extra weight. I'm comfortable in the woods, been wandering in the woods PROFESSIONALLY for 30+ years, the Forest Service will not employees carry a firearm, and I have my Used Dog. Amazingly, I've survived. I didn't know I worked in such a terrifying place.
> 
> Funny, I have come across bears in close range maybe twice. No problems.
> 
> Rabid chipmunks? Now you are sounding like a 13 year old video game junkie. You haven't told us how long you have worked in the woods.
> 
> Now, in a few years, I may have to start carrying something. Wolves have been dumped in our state and the bunny huggers are talking about dumping grizzlies. Maybe I should just take up video game playing and fantasize about shooting little cute chippymonks.


 
The rabid chipmunk idea was from Gologit...

Me, I haven't done work in the woods. Been in them for camping, hiking, etc. Where did I ever say I worked in the woods? 

Lol, none of the video games I got have you shoot those adorable chipmunks... I'm usually shooting terrorists or aliens. :msp_smile: I don't have much time to piss away on the 360 anymore, but when I do get some time on it, it's more fun especially when you're shooting terrorist after terrorist coming down the stairs... they're so stupid, lol. Kill one of them, another walks in to see what happened, drop him, and another will show up... I love it. 

I suggest you at least get a ######## 64 and take up Dr. Mario. My mom and pops used to spend hours playing that game... my brother and I used to watch and cheer them on... it was quite funny. This was about 12 years ago... been a long time since they have had time to fart around with a controller. It's kinda like Tetris, except you are manipulating those capsules that probably look a lot like some of your meds.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Predators*

It aint the four leg predators I worry about it is the two legged kind. Had a person last year on the one timber preserve I manage try to run me over when I was clearing road, the guy got jail time for it. The mountain cat sounds like a woman being killed in some lame arse horror movie. We had a mountain cat kill a deer in the yard next to my cabin on the ranch last winter, scary part was how close it was to three different houses . Kinda eery when your fast a sleep and you hear strange noises out side your window.


----------



## Gologit

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> It aint the four leg predators I worry about it is the two legged kind. Had a person last year on the one timber preserve I manage try to run me over when I was clearing road, the guy got jail time for it.



Did he get the jail time for trying to run you over? Or for missing?


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

He got jail time for attempted vehicular assault. I was opening the road to allow the sheriffs office access to the federal lands beyond the preserve for a search for a missing person.


----------



## slowp

What is a timber preserve? And how is it "managed".


----------



## stihl 440

promac610 said:


> The rabid chipmunk idea was from Gologit...
> 
> Me, I haven't done work in the woods. Been in them for camping, hiking, etc. Where did I ever say I worked in the woods?
> 
> Lol, none of the video games I got have you shoot those adorable chipmunks... I'm usually shooting terrorists or aliens. :msp_smile: I don't have much time to piss away on the 360 anymore, but when I do get some time on it, it's more fun especially when you're shooting terrorist after terrorist coming down the stairs... they're so stupid, lol. Kill one of them, another walks in to see what happened, drop him, and another will show up... I love it.
> 
> I suggest you at least get a ######## 64 and take up Dr. Mario. My mom and pops used to spend hours playing that game... my brother and I used to watch and cheer them on... it was quite funny. This was about 12 years ago... been a long time since they have had time to fart around with a controller. It's kinda like Tetris, except you are manipulating those capsules that probably look a lot like some of your meds.


 
:monkey:


----------



## Sport Faller

Man, I go camping for 2 days and come back to Sasquatch, rabid chipmunks, who's been in the woods longest pissing match, and some guy thats a ####ty enough driver to have missed HBRN


----------



## Joe46

I worked around literally dozens of bears when I was doing fisheries work in British Columbia. They had plenty to eat, so I knew I wasn't on their menu. Now I've had a concealed carry permit for 36 years. I use it. I'm much more concerned about a 2 legged varmint than the 4 legged ones.


----------



## Philbert

*Back on Track?*

Wedges > Bears > Guns > Preserves


















How did we get to video games? Oh, I get it!!! - Tetris is like stacking wedges! Right(?)

Philbert


----------



## dave k

There we all are rambling along when all of a sudden we now have HBRN the " Manager " ! How someone with so many roles to fill can manage to lurk about on a web site is beyond me, wait a min I just remembered I have entered the "Alice in wonderland " life of HBRN....pure fantasy !!


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

The preserve is a section of land set off from all uses for wild life protection only. The guy was a few brain cells to few to be driving:msp_ohmy:


----------



## GASoline71

Mountain cat?






View attachment 191715


Gary


----------



## Sport Faller

dave k said:


> There we all are rambling along when all of a sudden we now have HBRN the " Manager " ! How someone with so many roles to fill can manage to lurk about on a web site is beyond me, wait a min I just remembered I have entered the "Alice in wonderland " life of HBRN....pure fantasy !!


 
Maybe he's schizophrenic, he probably has a refrigerator box in his living room for truckdriver HBRN and astronaut HBRN, and can be seen with a lemonade stand with a bucket in front of it in his front yard trying to charge the squirrels a toll for using his yard. Also, cardboard harthad and Mattel toy chainsaw for sawyer HBRN


----------



## Sport Faller

GASoline71 said:


> Mountain cat?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 191715
> 
> 
> Gary


 
the only word that comes to mind is, Majestic :msp_biggrin:


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

GASoline71 said:


> Mountain cat?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 191715
> 
> 
> Gary


 
:msp_thumbup:



Good grief I just spit beer seeing this


----------



## ray benson

Joe46 said:


> I worked around literally dozens of bears when I was doing fisheries work in British Columbia. They had plenty to eat, so I knew I wasn't on their menu. Now I've had a concealed carry permit for 36 years. I use it. I'm much more concerned about a 2 legged varmint than the 4 legged ones.


 
Hi Joe, did you ever see any of these signs posted in B.C.


----------



## slowp

GASoline71 said:


> Mountain cat?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 191715
> 
> 
> Gary



I'd definitely fear that beast! It might make me sneeze to death. Where's the nearest gun store?


----------



## Sport Faller

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> :msp_thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief I just spit beer seeing this


 
So wait, you're a Reverend and you're getting your swerve on at 10:45 AM


----------



## Gologit

Preserves? I could manage some blackberry preserves.


----------



## Joe46

ray benson said:


> Hi Joe, did you ever see any of these signs posted in B.C.


 
 Nope, but I like it


----------



## wyk

slowp said:


> I'd definitely fear that beast! It might make me sneeze to death. Where's the nearest gun store?


 
Just step on it.


----------



## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> It aint the four leg predators I worry about it is the two legged kind. Had a person last year on the one timber preserve I manage try to run me over when I was clearing road, the guy got jail time for it. The mountain cat sounds like a woman being killed in some lame arse horror movie. We had a mountain cat kill a deer in the yard next to my cabin on the ranch last winter, scary part was how close it was to three different houses . Kinda eery when your fast a sleep and you hear strange noises out side your window.


 
Ok. Now I know what a "mountain cat" looks like in the wild (thanks Gasoline...)

This is a test.
Which of the following most closely resemble the sound above high-lighted in red ?
Multiple choice...

a) View attachment 191732

b) View attachment 191733

c) View attachment 191734

d) View attachment 191740

e) View attachment 191741


----------



## lfnh

*If* ya pass this test, we'll go one to the "strange noises out side your window" test


----------



## Metals406

lfnh said:


> Ok. Now I know what a "mountain cat" looks like in the wild (thanks Gasoline...)
> 
> This is a test.
> Which of the following most closely resemble the sound above high-lighted in red ?
> Multiple choice...
> 
> a) View attachment 191732
> 
> b) View attachment 191733
> 
> c) View attachment 191734
> 
> d) View attachment 191740
> 
> e) View attachment 191741


 
A, B, & C are invalid. . . E is my wife when I tell her she's a little hefty in the backside. . . D is me right after when she hits me with a chair.


----------



## lfnh

Metals406 said:


> A, B, & C are invalid. . . E is my wife when I tell her she's a little hefty in the backside. . . D is me right after when she hits me with a chair.


 
hahahha ! gotta step away after that one Metals. just to funny, LoL


----------



## Philbert

*Well, if we are going to go TOTALLY off the subject of wedges . . .*

Well, if we are going to go _totally_ off the subject of wedges, in recent news:


Leopard Attacks Villagers in Northern India -- NTDTV.com

Latest news, comment and reviews from the Guardian | guardian.co.uk

Leopard attack in India: Big cat knifed and beaten after village rampage | Mail Online

_Conversation overheard:

'Hey the 'Search function' on A.S. isn't working!'
'What's the problem?'
'I'm searching for posts about 'Leopards''
'Well, you need to search under 'W' for 'wedges!''_


----------



## lfnh

Will someone please go fetch HBRN...yank him away from google (youtube) for a minute...

(knew there shoulda been a time limit on that test)


----------



## Sport Faller

lfnh said:


> Will someone please go fetch HBRN...yank him away from google for a minute...
> 
> (knew there shoulda been a time limit on that test)
> 
> 
> paging hbrn....
> Isle 7 for questions - please see post 740
> never mind. helping chainsaw folks out


 
Don't you know?
he's a member of Mensa and therefore far far above your simple test


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

‪Mountain Lion Photos with Female Lion Screaming‬&rlm; - YouTube

This sounds pretty darn close. They have regional call differences and each cat is different in the vocal range. I have one up at the preserve that I hear during the post sunset during the spring time. Seen tracks the other day up on a firewood sale as big as large saucer. There has been a population increase the last 4 years in Oregon. We have people in the summer cabins say they see the cats around the cabins more then years ago. We saw one three weeks ago behind the local dump dragging a full grown cow elk off to be eaten.


----------



## Sport Faller

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> ‪Mountain Lion Photos with Female Lion Screaming‬&rlm; - YouTube
> 
> This sounds pretty darn close. They have regional call differences and each cat is different in the vocal range. I have one up at the preserve that I hear during the post sunset during the spring time. Seen tracks the other day up on a firewood sale as big as large saucer. There has been a population increase the last 4 years in Oregon. We have people in the summer cabins say they see the cats around the cabins more then years ago. We saw one three weeks ago behind the local dump dragging a full grown cow elk off to be eaten.


 
whoa whoa whoa

cats are strong, damn strong, but I don't buy for a hot #### minute that there was one dragging a fully grown cow elk into the woods, we're not talking about a friggin siberian tiger here


----------



## lfnh

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> ‪Mountain Lion Photos with Female Lion Screaming‬&rlm; - YouTube
> 
> This sounds pretty darn close. They have regional call differences and each cat is different in the vocal range. I have one up at the preserve that I hear during the post sunset during the spring time. Seen tracks the other day up on a firewood sale as big as large saucer. There has been a population increase the last 4 years in Oregon. We have people in the summer cabins say they see the cats around the cabins more then years ago. We saw one three weeks ago behind the local dump dragging a full grown cow elk off to be eaten.


 
long before that.

anyways, back to post 740 -

is your answer then, none of the above ?

or do you want to phone a friend ?


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

lfnh said:


> long before that.
> 
> anyways, back to post 740 -
> 
> is your answer then, none of the above ?
> 
> or do you want to phone a friend ?


 
Nothing on your post worked for me,Vmessage invalid link.


----------



## wyk

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Nothing on your post worked for me,Vmessage invalid link.


 
Shouldn't you be busy replacing the gasket in your 460?


----------



## lfnh

lfnh said:


> Ok. Now I know what a "mountain cat" looks like in the wild (thanks Gasoline...)
> 
> This is a test.
> Which of the following most closely resemble the sound above high-lighted in red ?
> Multiple choice...
> 
> a) View attachment 191732
> 
> b) View attachment 191733
> 
> c) View attachment 191734
> 
> d) View attachment 191740
> 
> e) View attachment 191741



Fixed:

a) View attachment 191769

b) View attachment 191770

c) View attachment 191771

d) View attachment 191772

e) View attachment 191773


----------



## promac850

1, 3, 4, and 5 are not important to this discussion. #2 is what my mom sounded like when she found the frog in the sink. :biggrinbounce2:

My black lab faithfully carried the frog in, and dropped it into the sink. Best we could figure. 

My brother and I were outside in the barn cleaning up tools, etc. and my dad was out in the garden, my mom was cleaning up a mess made on the porch by the dog knocking over a flower plant. Dog bring frog in house and place in sink. Mom walk in to wash hands in kitchen sink... screams. Us manly men rush in to see what the #### was going on. Laugh asses off at mom because she screamed at a dead frog. Mom get mad at us. We take dead frog out. Dog standing there wagging her tail, panting with the famous 'laughing lab' look. We continue to laugh. lol.


----------



## paccity

it's amazing how this thread just trucked along all day. frigin hilarious. especaly our multi talented member.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## lfnh

think hbrn was caught up multi-tasking between the cat calls and 460 squish...


----------



## Philbert

paccity said:


> it's amazing how this thread just trucked along all day. frigin hilarious.


 
The OP checked out of this thread 12 pages and 180 posts ago.

Philbert


----------



## Mastermind

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> It aint the four leg predators I worry about it is the two legged kind. Had a person last year *on the one timber preserve I manage* try to run me over when I was clearing road, the guy got jail time for it. The mountain cat sounds like a woman being killed in some lame arse horror movie. We had a mountain cat kill a deer in the yard next to my cabin on the ranch last winter, scary part was how close it was to three different houses . Kinda eery when your fast a sleep and you hear strange noises out side your window.



Here we go again. 



dave k said:


> There we all are rambling along when all of a sudden we now have HBRN the " Manager " ! How someone with so many roles to fill can manage to lurk about on a web site is beyond me, wait a min I just remembered I have entered the "Alice in wonderland " life of HBRN....pure fantasy !!



Everyone knows about him but him! We all figured out he was full of #### a while ago. He still believes his own BS. 



bigskyjake said:


> So wait, you're a Reverend and you're getting your swerve on at 10:45 AM







HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> ‪Mountain Lion Photos with Female Lion Screaming‬&rlm; - YouTube
> 
> This sounds pretty darn close. They have regional call differences and each cat is different in the vocal range. I have one up at the preserve that I hear during the post sunset during the spring time. Seen tracks the other day up on a firewood sale as big as large saucer. There has been a population increase the last 4 years in Oregon. We have people in the summer cabins say they see the cats around the cabins more then years ago. *We saw one three weeks ago behind the local dump dragging a full grown cow elk off to be eaten.*



You just can't help it can you HBRN??? 

On a much different subject, one we fade in and out of.  I've got a fairly large white oak (36" - 40") to take down. If it goes one way it will crash over a bank and land in the road. If it goes another it will damage a little dogwood that the owner wants to keep. Yet another way and it will mash an ornamental garden. So it has a very narrow landing zone. Would this be the correct time to use the world famous slopping back cut??? :msp_biggrin:

Just sayin.


----------



## Gologit

Mastermind said:


> On a much different subject, one we fade in and out of.  I've got a fairly large white oak (36" - 40") to take down. If it goes one way it will crash over a bank and land in the road. If it goes another it will damage a little dogwood that the owner wants to keep. Yet another way and it will mash an ornamental garden. So it has a very narrow landing zone. Would this be the correct time to use the world famous slopping back cut??? :msp_biggrin:
> 
> Just sayin.


 
You can only use the Infamous Slopping Back Cut if you film the entire process and then vigorously defend your choice of technique. You also have to insult and disagree with anyone who doesn't like what you've done. You're also required to use a saw that runs poorly and a very very dull chain.

No butt crack pictures, though. We do have our limits.


Or...you can post pictures of the white oak, get seventy three conflicting opinions on how you should drop it, and then go ahead with what your gut and experience level tell you. Me, I'd pick dropping it in the road.


----------



## lfnh

That there is a specialty backcut. Too many regional differences, to be exact.


----------



## Gologit

Philbert said:


> The OP checked out of this thread 12 pages and 180 posts ago.
> 
> Philbert


 
...and probably ran off screaming. These threads in the F and L section are a lot like logger's conversations around the lunch log or in the tavern or the saw shop. They meander. That's good. Learn to deal with it. Relax. Enjoy.


----------



## lfnh

Hmmm,

the car, the dogwood, and the ornamental garden.

tuff choice.


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> ...and probably ran off screaming. These threads in the F and L section are a lot like logger's conversations around the lunch log or in the tavern or the saw shop. They meander. That's good. Learn to deal with it. Relax. Enjoy.


 
yup.


----------



## Mastermind

Gologit said:


> You can only use the Infamous Slopping Back Cut if you film the entire process and then vigorously defend your choice of technique. You also have to insult and disagree with anyone who doesn't like what you've done.* You're also required to use a saw that runs poorly and a very very dull chain.*
> 
> No butt crack pictures, though. We do have our limits.
> 
> 
> Or...you can post pictures of the white oak, get seventy three conflicting opinions on how you should drop it, and then go ahead with what your gut and experience level tell you. Me, I'd pick dropping it in the road.



Well then we have a problem. I may not be a Pro logger like HBRN but my saws run very well, and are kept sharp. :cool2:


I'm with you on the butt crack, that's just too much for anyone to suffer through.


----------



## Rounder

Holy ####, this thread has gone even more haywire than the last one I posted in. I've calmed down a bit since then, no worries.

Since everyone seems to be here, Jake included, I got word today that there will be a logger games event at the Lumber Jack Saloon in late August. Jake, I'll be there, hope to see you, as well as Nate and Roma. It's on Saturday/Saturday night, a little more manageble for me.

Back to wedges. Wife is out of town on bussiness, so I've been making a concerted effort to get a lot of work #### done while drinking a lot of beer. So far, so good. Don't usually work out this well. Wedges- been busy fixing the ones I've ruined. Using my dremel with the little orange grinding thingy to resquare and re-bevel the tips. Works pretty darn slick. Hell of a lot better than mowing away with a rasp.

Anyhow, nice to make a dent in things, the dull chain nail, and buggered wedge pile start to get a little depressing when they start to stack up.

Hope you all are having a good weekend........Don't let the culls eat at ya too much. Guilty of it myself - Sam


----------



## lfnh

if ya go for the ornamental garden, we want pics of the rash and cleanup 

or maybe you could tail it off to the dogwood...just a thought.


----------



## Mastermind

lfnh said:


> if ya go for the ornamental garden, we want pics of the rash and cleanup
> 
> or maybe you could tail it off to the dogwood...just a thought.



We are gonna wait until fall to drop it, but I plan to take pics. That way when I make a big mess we will at least have something to laugh at.


----------



## lfnh

was hoping for more to way in on this tricky felling ya got coming up :msp_smile:

by fall, this tread should be punching upwards of 2000.


----------



## Mastermind

lfnh said:


> was hoping for more to way in on this tricky felling ya got coming up :msp_smile:
> 
> by fall, this tread should be punching upwards of 2000.


 
Yeah I sorta though we would hear from the fabled HBRN.


----------



## lfnh

Thinking bout it some more (that always gets ya in trouble), prolly best thing is just print off this whole thread. Surely, the answer to your dilema in here someplace.


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Holy ####, this thread has gone even more haywire than the last one I posted in. I've calmed down a bit since then, no worries.
> 
> Since everyone seems to be here, Jake included, I got word today that there will be a logger games event at the Lumber Jack Saloon in late August. Jake, I'll be there, hope to see you, as well as Nate and Roma. It's on Saturday/Saturday night, a little more manageble for me.
> 
> Back to wedges. Wife is out of town on bussiness, so I've been making a concerted effort to get a lot of work #### done while drinking a lot of beer. So far, so good. Don't usually work out this well. Wedges- been busy fixing the ones I've ruined. Using my dremel with the little orange grinding thingy to resquare and re-bevel the tips. Works pretty darn slick. Hell of a lot better than mowing away with a rasp.
> 
> Anyhow, nice to make a dent in things, the dull chain nail, and buggered wedge pile start to get a little depressing when they start to stack up.
> 
> Hope you all are having a good weekend........Don't let the culls eat at ya too much. Guilty of it myself - Sam


 
Count me in man, is that the one in Lolo?
also, what events, since Darby I've been brushin up on my axe throwing


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> Count me in man, is that the one in Lolo?
> also, what events, since Darby I've been brushin up on my axe throwing


 
Yep, up the pass at the 16 mile, Grave's crick road. I'll pm ya some contact info to find out about events, not sure off the top of my head - Sam


----------



## KiwiBro

Philbert said:


> The OP checked out of this thread 12 pages and 180 posts ago.
> 
> Philbert


I stop by every now and then to work on my tan.


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Yep, up the pass at the 16 mile, Grave's crick road. I'll pm ya some contact info to find out about events, not sure off the top of my head - Sam


 
sweet, thankee


----------



## Rounder

Roma said:


> Sounds good, will most likely be there.


 
I'll keep you in the loop - Sam


----------



## slowp

Mastermind said:


> On a much different subject, one we fade in and out of.  I've got a fairly large white oak (36" - 40") to take down. If it goes one way it will crash over a bank and land in the road. If it goes another it will damage a little dogwood that the owner wants to keep. Yet another way and it will mash an ornamental garden. So it has a very narrow landing zone. Would this be the correct time to use the world famous slopping back cut??? :msp_biggrin:
> 
> Just sayin.



I am sure I can tell you exactly how to fall it because I am comfy in my chair drinking coffee and contemplating my landscaping project. So heed this advice. Not advise, but advice.

Remember, you will need at least three 12 inch long wedges...that would be foot long wedges. I don't have my metric converter handy. Choose a color that will coordinate with your saw. Your hardhat should also be of a similar color, chaps too. 

Don't wear suspenders. We women love to see male cleavage. :msp_scared: It makes for good conversation, especially when there are 3 or more examples of large cleavage gifted guys sitting at bar stools leaning slightly forward. 

Better put some sunscreen on that cleavage this time of year.

Run your saw in some dirt first. Then begin the slopping back cut.

Don't pick out which way to gun it for. Surprise is the essence of life as is spontanaity. 

That's all I'm good for now. The coffee has not kicked in.


----------



## brnchbrkr

Mastermind said:


> This thread has taken some twists and turns.
> 
> I enjoy being in the woods as much as anything I can think of. I have been an avid hunter, hunting with every legal weapon. The only time I found myself afraid was while I was hunting with a bow. It was about an hour before daylight and I had spent over an hour getting into the area. Just as everything was beginning to settle down from my trek in a group of coyotes started yipping and being a general nuisance. That was something I was used to, I never gave it much thought. What scared me was a sound I had never heard before. It was loud, really loud. Sounded like an insane man screaming at the top of his lungs. The coyotes shut up, and that scared me even more. Everything was quiet, way too quiet. After a little bit the coyotes started their yipping around again, but this time they were right on top of me, on both sides, it was a little unnerving. It was then that the screaming started again, my hair was standing up all over my body, the coyotes shut up and never made another sound. I was damn glad to see the sun coming up that morning! I still have no idea what made that noise, I've never heard anything like it since. Anyone heard anything like that before?



‪Angry owls‬&rlm; - YouTube

http://www.owlpages.com/sounds/Tyto-alba-3.mp3

‪Barn Owl Screech‬&rlm; - YouTube

‪Barn Owl Screeching‬&rlm; - YouTube

‪BARN OWL doing a defensive stomp with Screams in Kestrel Nest‬&rlm; - YouTube

http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/Birds/Barred Owl/coyowlte.wav

http://www.owlpages.com/sounds/Strix-occidentalis-1.mp3 spottedowl

owl pages Owl Calls & Sounds - All Species


----------



## Mastermind

slowp said:


> I am sure I can tell you exactly how to fall it because I am comfy in my chair drinking coffee and contemplating my landscaping project. So heed this advice. Not advise, but advice.
> 
> Remember, you will need at least three 12 inch long wedges...that would be foot long wedges. I don't have my metric converter handy. Choose a color that will coordinate with your saw. Your hardhat should also be of a similar color, chaps too.
> 
> Don't wear suspenders. We women love to see male cleavage. :msp_scared: It makes for good conversation, especially when there are 3 or more examples of large cleavage gifted guys sitting at bar stools leaning slightly forward.
> 
> Better put some sunscreen on that cleavage this time of year.
> 
> Run your saw in some dirt first. Then begin the slopping back cut.
> 
> Don't pick out which way to gun it for. Surprise is the essence of life as is spontanaity.
> 
> That's all I'm good for now. The coffee has not kicked in.


 

OK let me get comfy in my own chair so we can hash this out proper like.  

First I have to get the correct color wedges, roughly the same color as a creamsickle. 

Now for my first question. Would it be better if the three 12 inch wedges were as rough looking as the well used saw??? Also, should the wedges have a coat of bar oil so they don't feel left out??? We can't have that. Just imagine an unruly wedge with a dark and twisted agenda. The tree could become unstable, forced into the road by the pissed off wedge. 

And now, moving on. The hard hat is a bit of an problem. I have yellow and white. Nothing in orange. Is that going to put the ornamental garden at risk??? I don't own any chaps, I know, what a rank amateur.  

That brings us the the well oiled man cleavage. I can't even type this without feeling a bit queasy. I'm getting me some suspenders. 

At this point I'm feeling a bit uneasy in my ability to follow thru. You say to run the saw in some dirt and begin the slopping back cut??? But if I do that will I not be rising above my station in life??? At my admitted limited experience level should I really but attempting to put myself in the same class as the revered super hero of the woods HBRN???

Oh, and one other thing. This gunning of the tree you mentioned??? Where on the tree will I find the throttle???


----------



## slowp

Oh, I forgot. You might want to go walk about in a recently logged area and look for discarded wedges. You can then make them into perfectly good wedges, somehow. Now, if the area was cut with a buncher, you can still wander around and look....


----------



## madhatte

Buncher wedges are the best kind. They make the slopping back cut a snap.


----------



## wyk

You may have seen this in the off-topic forum, but sometimes I just gotta bust out wid mah big red cock!

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vCUbWP4SVXo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## RandyMac

ohferchiristsakes!
Quit standing around ya ain't making anything but shade!


----------



## 8433jeff

RandyMac said:


> ohferchiristsakes!
> Quit standing around ya ain't making anything but shade!


 
And urine poor shade at that...


----------



## madhatte

Urine luck...


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## Steve NW WI

This thread has caused me to fall off the couch laughing more times than I care to admit to, and I ain't even been drinkin today!



slowp said:


> Now, in a few years, I may have to start carrying something. Wolves have been dumped in our state and the bunny huggers are talking about dumping grizzlies. Maybe I should just take up video game playing and fantasize about shooting little cute chippymonks.


 
$%^&(^ WOLVES! That's the best I can say. They're back roaming the north woods here, and not by popular demand that's for sure. If ya shoot one, make sure you throw it in some hippy's VW bus in case it's radio tracked. Hippies ain't gonna notice the smell of rotting wolf carcass anyhow. The wolves up north of here have killed more pets and livestock than they're worth.



Gologit said:


> Mastermind said:
> 
> 
> 
> On a much different subject, one we fade in and out of.  I've got a fairly large white oak (36" - 40") to take down. If it goes one way it will crash over a bank and land in the road. If it goes another it will damage a little dogwood that the owner wants to keep. Yet another way and it will mash an ornamental garden. So it has a very narrow landing zone. Would this be the correct time to use the world famous slopping back cut??? :msp_biggrin:
> 
> Just sayin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can only use the Infamous Slopping Back Cut if you film the entire process and then vigorously defend your choice of technique. You also have to insult and disagree with anyone who doesn't like what you've done. You're also required to use a saw that runs poorly and a very very dull chain.
> 
> No butt crack pictures, though. We do have our limits.
> 
> 
> Or...you can post pictures of the white oak, get seventy three conflicting opinions on how you should drop it, and then go ahead with what your gut and experience level tell you. Me, I'd pick dropping it in the road.
Click to expand...



Good choice Bob, them white oaks are heavy, and much easier to load if you're already on the road.


----------



## lfnh

Ran across another type of felling device based on spreading jaws and a lead screw.
Not clear if this device fell into wide spread use or not considering its weight.

Extracted the following pages from the source (OSU Library Collection).

The entire document is a very intersting read on logging techniques and equipment used back around 1900 and the pdf file is about 5 Mb.


----------



## dave k

Be great to see a pic of one in use as it's hard to get a sense of how big it is, I was looking at my porta power hyd kit the other day and was playing with some ideas about how to use it as a "wedge" that said it's only 4 tons pressure so maybe just little tree's !!
Thanks for posting that up.


----------



## paccity

paccity said:


> bob. i call them sabre tooth mountain weasels around here. singley there not bad, but in groups of five or more watch out.


 
View attachment 192065


----------



## Mastermind

Dang that's mean looking.


----------



## lfnh

Couple of b/w photographs from turn of the century showing actual use of some tools *pnw axe man* posted about a mile back in this thread. Photographs showing good detail of wedges are not that common.

Fallers and Equipment

Buckers and Equipment

Source credits: Clark County Historical Collection.


Fallers

Source Credit: Sierra Nevada Logging Museum


----------



## Mastermind

lfnh said:


> Couple of b/w photographs from turn of the century showing actual use of some tools *pnw axe man* posted about a mile back in this thread. Photographs showing good detail of wedges are not that common.
> 
> Fallers and Equipment
> 
> Buckers and Equipment
> 
> Source credits: Clark County Historical Collection.
> 
> 
> Fallers
> 
> Source Credit: Sierra Nevada Logging Museum


 
Good stuff. Thanks for posting these.

Like my Dad would say. That's when men were men, and women were glad of it!!!!


----------



## Philbert

*Back to wedges . . . once again*

Because of this thread I ordered a couple of the 'Hard Head Jr' wedges (is 'WAD' associated with 'CAD'?). These have a 1/4" steel insert in the top 2" or so of the head, but not the full steel striking surface that the regular 'Hard Head' wedges do. The steel insert should help to drive the wedge in and to reduce some mushrooming. I am thinking that this may be more of an advantage when used for falling than for bucking.

Sadly, they are not available in blue unless one special orders many dozens of them. Not sure when I will have an opportunity to use them in order to give a performance report, but here are my 'first impressions' comments:

HEAVY! - it should be obvious that steel weighs more than plastic, but I did not think of it until they arrived. I don't have an exact model without an insert to compare them to but these weighed in at 12.5 ounces (352g) on a postal scale - about 2 to 3 ounces (20 - 33%) more than some other plastic wedges I have of comparable size. 2 ounces should not seem like a lot, but they feel much heavier side by side, even when compared to a larger, heavier wedge! Must be something to do with density? Anyway, this is where the 'Wedge Thread' links up with the 'Suspenders Thread'!

Size - Manufacturer lists these at 7.5", but my tape measure says 8-3/8" X 3"

Lift - most of my plastic wedges are 1" thick at the butt. These are 1-1/4" so they have a bit more lift.

Overall, they appear to be well made of a hard, yellow plastic that is textured on both sides.

Philbert


----------



## Greystoke

I tried bein hard headed and it never worked for me...Neither did those wedges  I tried both types of those and always lost either the steel plate,or the insert, when the wedge still had lots of life in it. I prefer K&H for best driving power in bigger timber, but always had the generic madsens as secondaries. Also always liked the 15" banana wedges.


----------



## Philbert

tarzanstree said:


> Also always liked the 15" banana wedges.



That's interesting to hear about the metal caps and inserts.

I'm game - what's a 'banana wedge'? Sounds appealing.

Philbert


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

I decied to do some testing on wedge hardness today falling some trees for fire wood. Compared the 6" wedges of Stihl and the K&H brand. The K&h takes one #### of a amount of pounding with out any deformation, the Stihl takes very little hits before they deform.


----------



## mdavlee

I'll be interested to see how the hard heads do. I've been using the k&h and they seem to do good. I might order some madsens brand next order I get from them. 

I know there's metal banana wedges that ii've used at work to spread flanges apart. They were curved with the end where you drive is straight for a couple inches.


----------



## Philbert

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Compared the 6" wedges of Stihl and the K&H brand. The K&h takes one #### of a amount of pounding with out any deformation, the Stihl takes very little hits before they deform.



What are you hitting them with HBRN?

They talk about the different plastics used also with respect to temperatures. The softer ones are less likely to chip/crack/shatter in sub-freezing weather, so there might be some logic in having 'summer' and 'winter' wedges, depending upon what type of work you do.

I am surprised that we don't see glass-filled wedges which should take more abuse. Maybe that's a case of overkill as the current ones hold up well enough?

Philbert


----------



## 8433jeff

If they made to be indestructible, how many would be sold?


----------



## lfnh

Working the regular (summer) wedges in cold (5-15 F degree above) they seem more prone to fracturing. And few that blew back out into shins/knee got a hard cussing at.

Maybe the soft ones are blue to remind you they are for cold or more gentle pounding....


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC

I was using a 4 pound axe. I hit things like a violated ape, mean and very violently. I am brutal on mauls and sledges  People can not believe watching me hand split wood with a maul, I go at it like a drugged orangutang, doctor said no more so got to figure a way to make a younger guy do it :msp_thumbup:


----------



## dancan

lfnh said:


> Working the regular (summer) wedges in cold (5-15 F degree above) they seem more prone to fracturing. And few that blew back out into shins/knee got a hard cussing at.
> 
> Maybe the soft ones are blue to remind you they are for cold or more gentle pounding....


 
I've gotten a few stitches under the chin because of hard pounding and flying plastic , I've learned that more wedges on the bigger trees that need wedging and working the wedges is a better plan than brute force .
I try and use the harder ones in the summer and softer one in the winter but still manage to break or cut them all , I'm OK with killing one per paying job , I consider them a consumable like fuel and bar oil but do try to make them last .


----------



## Whiteman

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> I go at it like a drugged orangutang, doctor said no more so got to figure a way to make a younger guy do it :msp_thumbup:


 
Sounds like a personal problem........ one to share on a different kind of forum.:msp_unsure:


----------



## John Ellison

I've had those long banana wedges before. Great in bigger timber but I hated carrying it. Would'nt stay in my wedge pouch so I got the bright idea to stick it in there upside down so it would stay. Looked down at that knife edge sticking up there and thought, well, I'll be careful. DUH. Almost immediatly I fell on it and drove it betweem my ribs. Thought I was gonna die.


----------



## Philbert

John Ellison said:


> I've had those long banana wedges before. .


 
Anyone got a photo of a banana wedge? Curious.

EDIT: Banana wedge that would be used for falling? - I tried a Google image search and mostly got photos of funky women's shoes(?) along with a few curved tools that looked too thin to use on trees.

Thanks.

Philbert


----------



## Greystoke

Only one I could find Pard.







15" long, can be used as a hammer for smaller trees, or a wedge in bigger ones. Also have gotten me out of a pinch a few times with smaller trees when they set back and my saw was still in the backcut...nice thing about having a sharp point. Also use it as a progress needle the same way Jack aka 1dangercat on youtube uses his fallin axe in the back cut. Works nice too in place of stackin two wedges, if the tree is big enough. John is right, they can be a pain to carry...when I went without a wedge pouch I carried it in my back pocket, upside down, and with a wedge pouch just figured out the right configuration of smaller wedges in front of it, with it being closest to me. My wedge pouches were fairly stiff too, unlike some of those cloth ones.


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> Only one I could find Pard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 15" long, can be used as a hammer for smaller trees, or a wedge in bigger ones. Also have gotten me out of a pinch a few times with smaller trees when they set back and my saw was still in the backcut...nice thing about having a sharp point. Also use it as a progress needle the same way Jack aka 1dangercat on youtube uses his fallin axe in the back cut. Works nice too in place of stackin two wedges, if the tree is big enough. John is right, they can be a pain to carry...when I went without a wedge pouch I carried it in my back pocket, upside down, and with a wedge pouch just figured out the right configuration of smaller wedges in front of it, with it being closest to me. My wedge pouches were fairly stiff too, unlike some of those cloth ones.


 
Them are the wedges Ron Martin calls "Cows Tongue Wedges". He said he used them a lot in NorCal back in the day. He was there in the 70's, probably about the time Randy was trampin' around too.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Them are the wedges Ron Martin calls "Cows Tongue Wedges". He said he used them a lot in NorCal back in the day. He was there in the 70's, probably about the time Randy was trampin' around too.


 
"Cow Tongue Wedges"...man, I hadn't heard that term in years. We used to call those long wedges lots of things, most of which can't be repeated here. The names were usually anatomical references...use your imagination. We used big metal wedges when I started out and a lot of the guys were slow to change over to plastic. Once they did, though, the old metal wedges started to get used for door stops and screen door counter-weights.


----------



## lfnh

Gologit said:


> "Cow Tongue Wedges"...man, I hadn't heard that term in years. We used to call those long wedges lots of things, most of which can't be repeated here. The names were usually anatomical references...*use your imagination*. We used big metal wedges when I started out and a lot of the guys were slow to change over to plastic. Once they did, though, the old metal wedges started to get used for door stops and screen door counter-weights.


 
In this place that's like yelling "free saws, your choice. On the House. " 



Meant to ask if you remember about when the change over to plastic started ?


----------



## T_F_E

The international s-10 wedge was my favorite for the morning today.


----------



## Steve NW WI

T_F_E said:


> The international s-10 wedge was my favorite for the morning today.


 
I had to do some googling. I didn't know IH was in the skidder business until just now. Looks like a heck of an effective wedge though.


----------



## T_F_E

Steve NW WI said:


> I had to do some googling. I didn't know IH was in the skidder business until just now. Looks like a heck of an effective wedge though.


 
Yup thats her, wish I could have seen her back when she looked that good! But if I had that stack of wood that the old girl has pulled in her life I'd be pretty well off.


----------



## 2dogs

I was curious if this thread would die while I was on vacation. That was silly of me. 

My son is at Boy Scout camp and one of his tasks is detering bears from tearing apart the garbage trailer each night. They have been shooting shotguns over the bears on occasion but mostly they yell and bang pots and pans with wooden spoons. I guess I need to tell him to up-arm. Bigger spoons I guess. No...magnum spoons.

I almost always have a rifle with me for sending coyotes to Valhala. Same with rabid rodents but I don't know where they go. Oh and wild hogs but their valhala happens to be in my freezer.

And our beer drinking reverand pro faller wedge expert is now a timber preserve manager. I'm so proud of him. HBRN have you ever thought of politics?


----------



## stihl 440

Steve NW WI said:


> I had to do some googling. I didn't know IH was in the skidder business until just now. Looks like a heck of an effective wedge though.


 
Hey now....the 170 and 240 extremely effective wedges as well...were they can get to anyway...lol


----------



## Philbert

Steve NW WI said:


> I had to do some googling. I didn't know IH was in the skidder business until just now. Looks like a heck of an effective wedge though.


 
Well, in Wisconsin, when you think about wedges, it is probably Cheddar, or Havarti , or . . .

Philbert


----------



## Steve NW WI

Philbert said:


> Well, in Wisconsin, when you think about wedges, it is probably Cheddar, or Havarti , or . . .
> 
> Philbert


 
Quite often, yes. They are effective logging tools in their own right. Keeps ya from having to carry a bunch of TP with ya! Even at -30, it's not recommended to pound cheese wedges into trees and expect anything but a cheesy maul!


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## lfnh

good to see you back, 2dogs.

did ya miss us ?


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

I see my hate mongering heckler showed his head again guess he has low self esteem issues


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## paccity

hbrn, why bring it on yourself. if you even minutly want to be on here don't poke the bear.damn.


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## 2dogs

lfnh said:


> good to see you back, 2dogs.
> 
> did ya miss us ?


 
Yes I did. I enjoy it here.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

I see more people attacking me for no reason. I not a poser like my hater group


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## Gologit

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> I see my hate mongering heckler showed his head again guess he has low self esteem issues


 
2dogs is what you pretend to be. Back off.


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## GASoline71

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> I see my hate mongering heckler showed his head again guess he has low self esteem issues


 


HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> I see more people attacking me for no reason. I not a poser like my hater group


 
All this "hating" you speak of is self inflicted. I have explained this to you numerous times. Which, by no suprise, you choose to ignore. You either have 9 different people inside your head... or you are the ultimate internet froum troll. A lot of people are growing very weary of the BS that comes with your presence in almost every thread you post in or start.

...I might add... I'm being nice here. 

Gary


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## promac850

HBRN... I wouldn't even think of poking 2dogs, or any one else here...

You have NO credentials, NO honest experience, NO pictures... and there is much more that you have refused to put up and show, which helps to back your ass up and you may have gained some trust and worthiness here. But you haven't.

So... you are really a troll... we (more of Gary...) are being nice... and have given you chances...

Like I said before, I've never dropped a tree, but I know a slopping backcut ain't a good idea...

Push us too hard and I reckon your fall will hurt... a _lot_.

Quit posing, show us what you do, and grow up.

This attempt to reach the person's (HBRN's) feeble brain probably will backfire and continued feeble attempts at posing may be made... or worse, he'll start sobbing all over the damn forums...

Personal experience... I have poked some of these guys before, and realized it's a stupid idea. Don't poke bears, sharks, raccoons, rabid chipmunks, insane rabbits, and critters like that. Trust me.


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## stihl 440

Gologit said:


> 2dogs is what you pretend to be. Back off.


 
He is in a pretend world i believe.....i just love comming home after a hard monday of REAL LIFE LOGGING and hearing all this HBRN BS...really just makes my F****n day....NOT


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## RandyMac

This message is hidden because HILLBILLYREDNEC is on your ignore list.


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## promac850

RandyMac said:


> This message is hidden because HILLBILLYREDNEC is on your ignore list.


 
I think I'm going to turn that on now...

He neg repped me, lol. What an ass. 

He won't have any respect from me until he proves he is who he says he is.

Failure to provide proof time and time again... he is a troll that is what it is.


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## madhatte

The bummer thing, from a moderation perspective, is that he's not *technically* breaking any rules by being a pest and a jackass. He's not threatening anybody, he occasionally posts something that would be valid if it weren't copy-pasted from somewhere else, and has asked the occasional valid question. It's not fair to lay down the ban-hammer on somebody who is merely annoying. I've sent him a PM or two to the effect of "come on, man, shape up, these folks aren't idiots" but it seems to fall on deaf ears. I guess all we can do is wait for him to actually violate a rule of some consequence because so far he's annoying but harmless.


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## 2dogs

HBRN let me make this clear, I don't hate you. I bet you are a nice guy and it might be fun to sit and chat over a beer. You minister to shut-ins and volunteer with your saw. That is great and you are to be commended for that. However, you NEVER shut up. You have an opinion on every subject posted here. You have claimed (at times) to be a pro faller, a firewood cutter, a disabled man unable to saw for very long, to have a broken neck, to have been on a HIGH SCHOOL saw crew, to be a hazard tree faller, to be a timber preserve(?) manager, an unemployed red neck (your words from your profile), and probably a few more personas I have forgotten about. 

If you want to be accepted here on AS don't try to force your opinion on everyone. You will NEVER sell your farmer backcut as a valid technique. It is a red flag to any professional. Stop telling everyone they should use a 6" wedge for every falling situation. Yes I do remember your prompt and polite responce to my question regarding longer wedges but that has been replaced by your recent insistance on using a tiny wedge. Post here the names of the companies you have worked for. How can you trusted when you refuse to list your employers? How can you consider yourself a professional faller when you never tell us about the jobs you have worked on? Were you the only faller working? And tell us your name. Most of us here on F&L, while we may not truly know each other, know each others names. We don't hide who we are.

And HBRN...when you are asked a direct question, answer it. Don't beat around the bush or ignore the question. Answer it. 

I think you can become a respected member here on AS but that is up to you. If you don't change your ways you will continue to be disrespected. Please reconsider your past posts with an open mind. I truly hope the best for you.


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## little possum

?
Say you are felling timber that is no bigger than 24" across the stump. What kind of wedge do you use? Seems to me that trees like that, the wedge hits the bar/chain before it ever has much effect on the tree. Just shorter wedges?


No BS answers please


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## Metals406

little possum said:


> ?
> Say you are felling timber that is no bigger than 24" across the stump. What kind of wedge do you use? Seems to me that trees like that, the wedge hits the bar/chain before it ever has much effect on the tree. Just shorter wedges?
> 
> 
> No BS answers please


 
Ya fall it to the head lean. . . Duh!


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## little possum

So press agaisnt the trunk with my skull bucket? (head lean)


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

little possum said:


> ?
> Say you are felling timber that is no bigger than 24" across the stump. What kind of wedge do you use? Seems to me that trees like that, the wedge hits the bar/chain before it ever has much effect on the tree. Just shorter wedges?
> 
> 
> No BS answers please


 
The answer to the question is not so simple. You need to consider species,limb weighting, condition of wood- dead-green- semi green-rotten-fire damaged-frozen, lean. For most trees with sound wood a 6" wedge to start before pulling the saw and using a brace of 8" wedges placed right will push the tree in the desired direction.


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## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The answer to the question is not so simple. You need to consider species,limb weighting, condition of wood- dead-green- semi green-rotten-fire damaged-frozen, lean. For most trees with sound wood a 6" wedge to start before pulling the saw and using a brace of 8" wedges placed right will push the tree in the desired direction.


 
NOPE! WRONG AGAIN! For most trees with sound wood a wedge placed in the backcut is a good idea in case the wind shifts or you read the tree wrong and just because it is good practice. Pulling the saw and hammering on wedges means you are a farmer cutter. The tree should commit to the face WITHOUT pounding. Learning to make a proper gunning cut and angled cut will solve most problems before they start and following those with correct backcut will cause most every tree to fall to the lay without wedging. 

If you cut like a farmer and can't make proper cuts then you will need to pull your saw out of every backcut and force the tree over. The rest of us like to use skill.


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## little possum

Well Im just a simple farmer then  Nah, I dont get to do much felling. Most of what we do is cabled off or use the skidsteer as the wedge 
Id love to learn to fall from a pro though. Been giving a Forestry career a thought. 

Thanks 2dawgs


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## 2dogs

little possum said:


> Well Im just a simple farmer then  Nah, I dont get to do much felling. Most of what we do is cabled off or use the skidsteer as the wedge
> Id love to learn to fall from a pro though. Been giving a Forestry career a thought.
> 
> Thanks 2dawgs


 
There are times when pulling a tree over is the best way. My responce was to HBRN's as usual bad advice regarding his wedge technique.

Forestry is a great career! (I'm not a forester.) Do your best!

Edited for clarity. I hope.


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## Joe46

2Dogs you have my respect. You have been far to kind. Since you know who made it to my ignore list early in the game. I do not suffer fools. At my age I've seen and heard far too many. Don't forget to add "white finger' to his list of credits.


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## paccity

little possum said:


> Well Im just a simple farmer then  Nah, I dont get to do much felling. Most of what we do is cabled off or use the skidsteer as the wedge
> Id love to learn to fall from a pro though. Been giving a Forestry career a thought.
> 
> Thanks 2dawgs


 
2dogs is right, theres a lot trees that i could just cut & dump but alot are in residential spots that i'll bull rope them just incase of the potential brain fart.


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## 2dogs

paccity said:


> 2dogs is right, theres a lot trees that i could just cut & dump but alot are in residential spots that i'll bull rope them just incase of the potential brain fart.


 
Insurance companies should provide us all with bull ropes.


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## OregonSawyer

Oh how I love the F&L Forum. I feel like I am being a troll at times because I just click on the threads and read the Pro's stories and hopefully (on occasion I am lucky enough) look at the pictures.

I would just like to take a second to thank those of you "real loggers" -and Foresters- that continue to post even with the nonsense responses by some (particularly one) member(s). 

I am not in any capacity a professional timber faller - maybe in another life. So for me it is enjoyable to live somewhat vicariously through those of you that go out and beat the brush while putting your neck, back and every other part of your body on the line daily. Working at a sawmill, as i do, your guys' work doesn't go unnoticed. It keeps us up and running, doing the easy part of lumber/timber manufacturing. 

But for god's sake KEEP POSTING PICTURES!! :msp_thumbup:

Again, you guys are much appreciated.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Harbor Freight has 8" plastic falling wedges. They have raised nobs on one side and the other side is smooth. 

Felling Wedge


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## 2dogs

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Harbor Freight has 8" plastic falling wedges. They have raised nobs on one side and the other side is smooth.
> 
> Felling Wedge


 
Looks like a Timber Savage wedge.


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## 056 kid

Metals406 said:


> Ya fall it to the head lean. . . Duh!


 
that or swing that thing. just a small amount of fancy work can tip what a straight across the stump hinge will need a wedge tapped a few times to hit the same lay. I'll keep the wedges in my pockets..


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## Gologit

little possum said:


> ?
> Say you are felling timber that is no bigger than 24" across the stump. What kind of wedge do you use? Seems to me that trees like that, the wedge hits the bar/chain before it ever has much effect on the tree. Just shorter wedges?
> 
> 
> No BS answers please


 
Yup. If you're like me you'll have some wedges that you've "tickled" with the saw and they're already short. Dress them down with a horse shoer's rasp to keep the angle constant. Or...just buy shorter wedges. Or...make some of your own out of hardwood.


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## Gologit

little possum said:


> So press agaisnt the trunk with my skull bucket? (head lean)


 
Nope. Just pressing against the tree won't work. Try banging your head repeatedly against it. :bang::bang::bang::bang: This will give your Skull Bucket that well used look that loggers cherish. :biggrin:


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## Greystoke

Gologit said:


> Yup. If you're like me you'll have some wedges that you've "tickled" with the saw and they're already short. Dress them down with a horse shoer's rasp to keep the angle constant. Or...just buy shorter wedges. Or...make some of your own out of hardwood.


 
I always kept one of those "tickled wedges" handy as long as I could get it started in a back cut...most times the first inch or so are not even used on a new sharp wedge. Wish I had a nickel for every riggen fit I ever threw when I tickle a brand new wedge! Only one I never tickled was when I used the Mag driver...kinda funny how that works!


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## slowp

Gologit said:


> Nope. Just pressing against the tree won't work. Try banging your head repeatedly against it. :bang::bang::bang::bang: This will give your Skull Bucket that well used look that loggers cherish. :biggrin:



Hey! You be nice to the former Cute Woodland Animals Themed hat! Instead, I suggest you do it the Forest Service video method and throw rocks at the tree.


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## GASoline71

madhatte said:


> The bummer thing, from a moderation perspective, is that he's not *technically* breaking any rules by being a pest and a jackass. He's not threatening anybody, he occasionally posts something that would be valid if it weren't copy-pasted from somewhere else, and has asked the occasional valid question. *It's not fair to lay down the ban-hammer on somebody who is merely annoying. I've sent him a PM or two to the effect of "come on, man, shape up, these folks aren't idiots" but it seems to fall on deaf ears.* I guess all we can do is wait for him to actually violate a rule of some consequence because so far he's annoying but harmless.



I have done the same my friend. 

Falls on deaf ears... typical keyboard cowboy. 

Gary


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## Mastermind

GASoline71 said:


> All this "hating" you speak of is self inflicted. I have explained this to you numerous times. Which, by no suprise, you choose to ignore. You either have 9 different people inside your head... or you are the ultimate internet froum troll. A lot of people are growing very weary of the BS that comes with your presence in almost every thread you post in or start.
> 
> ...I might add... I'm being nice here.
> 
> Gary


 
HBRN red repped me. But I liked it. 

I've arrived at the conclusion that the poor guy is simply...well, simple. Perhaps a few fries short of a happy meal? That is still no excuse for posting on things that he knows little or nothing about then getting mad and defensive when called on it. 

I come here for a little back and forth with guys that know their stuff hoping to learn a little about the things they discuss. I also like being around men that know what it feels like to work hard for what they have. When the ribbing starts, I like that too, my skin is thick and I hope everyone else's is too. So HBRN stick a wedge in your mouth and uncork your ears. Hell man you might even make some friends. 

I'm gonna send you a large shot of green rep to show you how it's done.


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## Samlock

I'm the lucky bstard because I don't read English too well. Everything goes with me like a 3 $ bill.

Although what worries me is HILLYBILLY's writing about his _future mother-in-law_. I don't know your cultural context across the pond, but to me that kind of talk gives just creeps.


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## GASoline71

Mastermind said:


> I come here for a little back and forth with guys that know their stuff hoping to learn a little about the things they discuss. I also like being around men that know what it feels like to work hard for what they have. When the ribbing starts, I like that too, my skin is thick and I hope everyone else's is too. So HBRN stick a wedge in your mouth and uncork your ears. Hell man you might even make some friends.



I have done my fair share of fallin'... on crews and on my own as a hired gun... But humility speaks volumes. There are cats on here with waaaayyyyyy more experience than I have. They have forgotten more than I'll ever know.

One of the best pieces of advice the ol' sawbuck I worked with back in the day told me. His name was "Buck" Thomas... Rest his poor trodden soul...  He says to me "Rook', never be scared to ask. Sure you'll get poked at... but you'll be smarter. Better yet... you won't be dead."

Gary


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## slowp

Although not up to the godly fallers caste("Truckdrivers with chainsaws"--Hooktender Keith) I like what I heard another hooktender tell his young pimp (helper). The hooktender had to go with me to pick out more tail trees. So, he left the young pimp to continue rigging up a tree, with this order, "If you have any questions, don't do it."


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## little possum

Gologit said:


> Yup. If you're like me you'll have some wedges that you've "tickled" with the saw and they're already short. Dress them down with a horse shoer's rasp to keep the angle constant. Or...just buy shorter wedges. Or...make some of your own out of hardwood.


 
I tickled a few metal wedges a while back  What a day to start out a day.


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## 056 kid

those customized wedges sure do like to pop out of the kirf. there where a few that went through the air so far they where never seen again.:msp_biggrin:


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## lfnh

Tripped over this photograph looking for something else. Seems like when your looking for something the harder it is to find it.

Very interesting set of wedges and sledges. Might have to zoom in to see the backcut on the left side.






Full caption and source credit.

Courtesy of Oregon State Library.


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> Hey! You be nice to the former Cute Woodland Animals Themed hat! Instead, I suggest you do it the Forest Service video method and throw rocks at the tree.


 
Yes, Ma'am. Well, I'll try anyway.


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## Gologit

tarzanstree said:


> I always kept one of those "tickled wedges" handy as long as I could get it started in a back cut...most times the first inch or so are not even used on a new sharp wedge. Wish I had a nickel for every riggen fit I ever threw when I tickle a brand new wedge! Only one I never tickled was when I used the Mag driver...kinda funny how that works!


 
Yup. Ever notice how you can kind of "feel" the wood when you're cutting, especially when you're backing one up and you're close to being sawed up? Or when you're bucking one that might be a runaway but you can feel when to gas it and when to let it go? You just _know_ how it's supposed to feel. I don't know how to describe it any better than that.

Why then can't we tell when we're into our wedges until the big orange noodles start falling all over our boots? I never have figured that one out.


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## Rounder

Yep Bob, that was the story of my ROW day today. Lol. Being irritated sure seems to suck those shiny new wedges right into that chain. - Sam


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## Greystoke

Gologit said:


> Yup. Ever notice how you can kind of "feel" the wood when you're cutting, especially when you're backing one up and you're close to being sawed up? Or when you're bucking one that might be a runaway but you can feel when to gas it and when to let it go? You just _know_ how it's supposed to feel. I don't know how to describe it any better than that.
> 
> Why then can't we tell when we're into our wedges until the big orange noodles start falling all over our boots? I never have figured that one out.


 
Me neither pard...but I still always threw a riggin fit when I did it, and just figured...there's another blunt wedge for the tight backcuts


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## Greystoke

mtsamloggit said:


> Yep Bob, that was the story of my ROW day today. Lol. Being irritated sure seems to suck those shiny new wedges right into that chain. - Sam


 
Bein irritated never helps anything when you are fallin timber! I know that for a fact, but sure could never practice it


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## Philbert

Gologit said:


> Why then can't we tell when we're into our wedges until the big orange noodles start falling all over our boots?


 
Go back to steel wedges - you'll know quick!

Philbert


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## Rounder

Sometimes I just can't help myself. I don't think the mile ride up a rocky ass ridge hangin off the side of a 7 helped much.....that and another yarder rolling out of the shop shortly.

Work is work though, and so is a ride up the hill...even if it beats your brains out...I'll take it with a smile - Sam


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## 2dogs

mtsamloggit said:


> Sometimes I just can't help myself. I don't think the mile ride up a rocky ass ridge hangin off the side of a 7 helped much.....that and another yarder rolling out of the shop shortly.
> 
> Work is work though, and so is a ride up the hill...even if it beats your brains out...I'll take it with a smile - Sam


 
Great attitude Sam! I just spent a half hour soaking in a bath the temperature of molten salt trying to get some feeling back in my hands and wrists. Still I'm grateful that there is work for me and that I am still able to do it.


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## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Great attitude Sam! I just spent a half hour soaking in a bath the temperature of molten salt trying to get some feeling back in my hands and wrists. Still I'm grateful that there is work for me and that I am still able to do it.


 
I'm glad all you guys are working. And, when I finally retire, you just keep on working. I'll drive by now and then and watch. And comment. That'll be the best part.


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## paccity

bob you have a safe and productive day.


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## slowp

Us slabbers just get the wedges that are in the big box in the middle of the aisle. Then it doesn't hurt so much. 

Retirement just means different kinds of work-- Doing those "projects" that you never had time to do before.
But you can quit when the flies start biting too much, or the fish are biting, or the kayak needs exercise. Hmmmm. That last one sounds good.


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## Mastermind

slowp said:


> Us slabbers just get the wedges that are in the big box in the middle of the aisle. Then it doesn't hurt so much.
> 
> Retirement just means different kinds of work-- Doing those "projects" that you never had time to do before.
> But you can quit when the flies start biting too much, or the fish are biting, or the kayak needs exercise. Hmmmm. That last one sounds good.


 
My "retirement" was forced. I ended up getting sick and just couldn't go back to building. In all honesty I don't miss the work much, but I do miss the pay. 

I have been able to learn things I never would have had time to do though. Working on saws and trimmers has kept me busy for awhile now. I enjoy it too. The shop is small so heating and cooling is an easy task, and I've never had to climb a saw to work on it. That's a plus.


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## slowp

Mastermind said:


> My "retirement" was forced. I ended up getting sick and just couldn't go back to building. In all honesty I don't miss the work much, but I do miss the pay.
> 
> I have been able to learn things I never would have had time to do though. Working on saws and trimmers has kept me busy for awhile now. I enjoy it too. The shop is small so heating and cooling is an easy task, and I've never had to climb a saw to work on it. That's a plus.



I still don't know what my pay for retiring will be. I am getting paid, but the final amount has not been calculated. When you retire from the feds, you get a note that basically says, don't be shocked by the amount of your annuities, we are being conservative until we figure it out.

Oh well, I find myself trying to figure out how to become a part time entrepraneur...or however you spell it.
Maybe turn some cottonwoods into something.

Alls I know is my ibuprofen consumption has gone waaaaay down since retiring. I think that is a good thing?


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## lfnh

Always thought counting Spotted Owls in the Golden Years would be fun and good pay.

..wake up late, throw a pot of coffee on, turn on the AS Channel, sit back in the recliner, make up some numbers and fill in the Owl count form, drop it in the mail and go back to the crossword puzzle. :smile:


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## Steve NW WI

slowp said:


> Oh well, I find myself trying to figure out how to become a part time entrepraneur...or however you spell it.
> Maybe turn some cottonwoods into something.
> 
> Alls I know is my ibuprofen consumption has gone waaaaay down since retiring. I think that is a good thing?


 
Got any way to source commercial quantities of huckelberries? Bet those pies I keep hearing about would make some good money!

I used to call my bottle of Ibu in the toolbox at work "(Name of company)-be-gone". My consumption went way down when I switched jobs last year.


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## slowp

Steve NW WI said:


> Got any way to source commercial quantities of huckelberries? Bet those pies I keep hearing about would make some good money!
> 
> I used to call my bottle of Ibu in the toolbox at work "(Name of company)-be-gone". My consumption went way down when I switched jobs last year.



My Pet Peeve..the commercialization of huckleberries. That causes a ranting amongst us locals here. With huckleberry season, a whole group of transients moves in. There are so many that the prices paid for huckleberries is very low. You could maybe make gas money. Anyway, they move in, camp, trash places, and go strip our formerly secret berry areas. A few years ago, after a hard winter with lots of snow break, I cut my way into a special patch. It was one that was flat, and I used to take my elderly relations into to pick. They could camp there, and take lawn chairs out, and sit and pick. So, I opened the road to check and also brushed out places. I went up about now, and saw it was almost ready. I got a couple of friends, and we went up to pick. THERE WERE THREE VANLOADS OF COMMERCIAL PICKERS IN THE PATCH!:mad2:
So, instead of a leisurly evening of picking, we ended up hitting it hard because that place would be stripped after that day. 

Now, I have a couple of spots that do not have good parking, I do not brush the road out, and require a hike in. One is so secret, I have been unable to find it again. 

I was brought up to believe that huckleberries are special. I pick what I need, what my relatives need, and some to give away for gifts. They are not to be sold. They are a rare treat.

One of my picking friends said that he hoped what with all the blueberry farms that are springing up, that the price for huckleberries would tank and we could have our patches back. 

Yeah, it is all National Forest, but we have our special places. I want to picket stores and encourage a boycott of wild huckleberry products.....:mad2:

It doesn't matter that the migrants don't make a lot of money. The huckleberry picking tides them over until the musharoomahs pop up, and that's when they make a living. I am hoping that the huckleberries get ripe at the same time the mushrooms pop up, and the commercial pickers will ignore the berries. 

Rant over.


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## Metals406

slowp said:


> My Pet Peeve..the commercialization of huckleberries. That causes a ranting amongst us locals here. With huckleberry season, a whole group of transients moves in. There are so many that the prices paid for huckleberries is very low. You could maybe make gas money. Anyway, they move in, camp, trash places, and go strip our formerly secret berry areas. A few years ago, after a hard winter with lots of snow break, I cut my way into a special patch. It was one that was flat, and I used to take my elderly relations into to pick. They could camp there, and take lawn chairs out, and sit and pick. So, I opened the road to check and also brushed out places. I went up about now, and saw it was almost ready. I got a couple of friends, and we went up to pick. THERE WERE THREE VANLOADS OF COMMERCIAL PICKERS IN THE PATCH!:mad2:
> So, instead of a leisurly evening of picking, we ended up hitting it hard because that place would be stripped after that day.
> 
> Now, I have a couple of spots that do not have good parking, I do not brush the road out, and require a hike in. One is so secret, I have been unable to find it again.
> 
> I was brought up to believe that huckleberries are special. I pick what I need, what my relatives need, and some to give away for gifts. They are not to be sold. They are a rare treat.
> 
> One of my picking friends said that he hoped what with all the blueberry farms that are springing up, that the price for huckleberries would tank and we could have our patches back.
> 
> Yeah, it is all National Forest, but we have our special places. I want to picket stores and encourage a boycott of wild huckleberry products.....:mad2:
> 
> It doesn't matter that the migrants don't make a lot of money. The huckleberry picking tides them over until the musharoomahs pop up, and that's when they make a living. I am hoping that the huckleberries get ripe at the same time the mushrooms pop up, and the commercial pickers will ignore the berries.
> 
> Rant over.


 
Same here. . . We get the foreigner pickers for shrooms and H. Berries. They usually speak no Engrish, are rude, and a lot of local folks have been threatened with knives. They are like locusts, often damaging the plants they "pick", I use the term pick lightly. . . It's more like rape.

It's gotten so bad over the years, that if you find a spot, you just stay quiet, not even telling friends or family. . . That way, the foreign raiders have to do their own damn footwork to pillage the crop.


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## slowp

Metals406 said:


> Same here. . . We get the foreigner pickers for shrooms and H. Berries. They usually speak no Engrish, are rude, and a lot of local folks have been threatened with knives. They are like locusts, often damaging the plants they "pick", I use the term pick lightly. . . It's more like rape.
> 
> It's gotten so bad over the years, that if you find a spot, you just stay quiet, not even telling friends or family. . . That way, the foreign raiders have to do their own damn footwork to pillage the crop.




Eggarzackly. Same situation. One group was trying to terrorize a group of Indian women. They'd probably been picking for years in that area, and a recent immigrant was pinning #### pictures on their tents and patting his gun, telling them to get out. I told one of the campers to get me and I'd be glad to go up on my time off with a camera and document what was going on. But I didn't hear again. 

Oh, and the vinyl tents go up in our "downtown" and trash gets blown all over. Grrrrrr. One guy would leave the tents up year round, and some of us were delighted when the heavy snow crushed the garbage attracting structures. 

Downtown consists of a mini-mart, post office, restaurant, bar, grocery store, library, dentist and coffee hut.


----------



## promac850

The migrant workers are #######s.

One of them used to live right down the road, which that road intersects the one I live on... at that intersection, there is a house. An apple farmer used to live there, until the said migrant worker shot him and killed him. The farmer was walking down the road to drop off the paycheck. He made about 1/3 mile crawl home, and died in the front yard. 

Migrant worker is now in prison, and probably has been prison raped several times... which is good.

I'd say go black ops on them bastards... stealthily stalking and taking out the picker parties of these migrants that really do not even belong in the US.

slowp, I am working a factory job... been doing so for the last week and a half... it isn't exactly what you call 'fun', but it certainly beats working in a sweatshop in China, and certainly beats Mexican and Chinese parts in quality.


----------



## slowp

The huckleberry pickers are legally here. They are refugees from our excursion into SE Asia. They are Hmong and Cambodians. They also pick the mushrooms.

Hispanics are the brush pickers. They are also the precommercial thinners, the tree planters and a few are on logging crews. I've had good rapport with the ones on the logging jobs. They are trying to fit in, work hard, and even speak English, or make the effort to. You can hear the hooktender Jesus, cussing in the background on a video I made. He's got that part down well.


----------



## Joe46

Well, not exactly Huckleberry pie, but I have 1 bottle of Huckleberry soda from Montana left. I may have to take a road trip.


----------



## Metals406

Joe46 said:


> Well, not exactly Huckleberry pie, but I have 1 bottle of Huckleberry soda from Montana left. I may have to take a road trip.


 
It's not for everyone, but Lang Creek Brewery in Marion makes a Huckleberry beer. It's pretty dang good, and has a finish similar to a good IPA.

Oh, and "WEDGES". Coverin' mah bases.


----------



## dave k

Would that be" WEDGES" of Slowp's huckleberry pie ?


----------



## promac850

slowp said:


> The huckleberry pickers are legally here. They are refugees from our excursion into SE Asia. They are Hmong and Cambodians. They also pick the mushrooms.
> 
> Hispanics are the brush pickers. They are also the precommercial thinners, the tree planters and a few are on logging crews. I've had good rapport with the ones on the logging jobs. They are trying to fit in, work hard, and even speak English, or make the effort to. You can hear the hooktender Jesus, cussing in the background on a video I made. He's got that part down well.


 
I stand corrected...

Now those that are rude, inconsiderate, and improper... and somehow legal... should be taken care of. IMHO.

When you said "transients" I thought "migrants" and proceeded to direct a post on them...

Some don't drive worth a ####, a few will not speak any engrish, and many probably are illegal aliens...

Anyhow... where were we? Huckleberry pie? How'd that go? opcorn:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Same here. . . We get the foreigner pickers for shrooms and H. Berries. They usually speak no Engrish, are rude, and a lot of local folks have been threatened with knives. They are like locusts, often damaging the plants they "pick", I use the term pick lightly. . . It's more like rape.
> 
> It's gotten so bad over the years, that if you find a spot, you just stay quiet, not even telling friends or family. . . That way, the foreign raiders have to do their own damn footwork to pillage the crop.


 
I've seen and heard everything you're talking about, it pisses me off to no end, all I can say is this: if one of those bastards comes near me or mine with a knife when we're up in the Northfork looking for some berries for Huck. Dessert then I'd have to say that they just brought a knife to a gunfight. The law states that if someone is brandishing a knife towards you and is within 20 feet, it's go time


----------



## redheadwoodshed

We got plenty of huckleberries in Louisiana but no migrants coming through picking them.Ya'll must not know how to handle transients up there.


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## slowp

There may be WEDGES of blueberry pie. I'm covering my bases this year and will run down the road and BUY some domestically grown blueberries. The huckleberries, as I've said, will be quite late this year. We had so much snow, and such a cool Spring. 

Blueberries just aint the same thing.


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> It's not for everyone, but Lang Creek Brewery in Marion makes a Huckleberry beer. It's pretty dang good, and has a finish similar to a good IPA.
> 
> Oh, and "WEDGES". Coverin' mah bases.


 
Huckleberry beer....blech! Now huckleberry whiskey.....:smile2:


----------



## 8433jeff

MMMMMMM, pie.

Any of the above.

I'd try the beer, had a six pack of pumpkin pie beer from an outfit in Wisconsin once. Around Thanksgiving, they always brew a batch up. There's better beer, but they were OK with a leftover turkey sammich.

I don't advocate violence, but you all be careful out there and hit what you aim at, if it comes to that. Which it shouldn't, over pie?

MMMMMMM, pie.


----------



## Mastermind

slowp said:


> There may be WEDGES of blueberry pie. I'm covering my bases this year and will run down the road and BUY some domestically grown blueberries. The huckleberries, as I've said, will be quite late this year. We had so much snow, and such a cool Spring.
> 
> Blueberries just aint the same thing.


 
I'm sure I've mentioned this before. But I like me some pie.  Wedges of pie are fine, just fine.

It ain't important what's in the pie so long as the crust is flakey. 

I likes me a flakey crust.


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> Same here. . . We get the foreigner pickers for shrooms and H. Berries. They usually speak no Engrish, are rude, and a lot of local folks have been threatened with knives. They are like locusts, often damaging the plants they "pick", I use the term pick lightly. . . It's more like rape.



Oh, man, do I ever have some tales about that stuff. 

Only time I've ever been threatened in the woods was by a white guy dressed like the Gorton's Fisherman... protecting his 'shroom patch against imaginary Asians. Dude came at me with a knife, shouting "WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?" while I'm looking up a clino at the top of a tree, out at the end of my Spencer, in cruiser's vest and hard-hat. Evidently there'd been some kind of war the season before (this would be 1995-6, Gifford Pinchot, slowp surely remembers) and everybody was on edge. Once he cooled down, he went to great pains to show me how to properly harvest Chanterelles without disturbing the mycelium, a technique which I use to this day. 

'Nother time I was rollin' outta the woods only to find my way blocked by a "POLICE BARRIER DO NOT ENTER" tape across a main-line. Yeah, right, not on my watch; I have lights on my roof, too. I follow my snoot to the flavors of fruit and find that 3 (!) law enforcement agencies have a half-dozen Mexicans handcuffed face-down on the ground next to a van recently filled to the gills with fresh-cut salal. Three years later, those sprigs have not quite completely decomposed where they were dumped out. 

I may or may not have written of my adventures with Mexican planting crews; they have been uniformly excellent experiences. Those guys bust ass and get it done.

So I ask the obvious "elephant in the room" question: who's really the "foreigner" in the woods?


----------



## slowp

The answer is easy. Scotch Broom.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## 056 kid

All I can say is #### you Randy.


----------



## 2dogs

2dogs said:


> There are times when pulling a tree over is the best way. My responce was to HBRN's as usual bad advice regarding his wedge technique.
> 
> Forestry is a great career! (I'm not a forester.) Do your best!
> 
> Edited for clarity. I hope.


 
Kinda funny, this post earned me red rep. I think that is a first. 

Scotty your advice was not valid and can be very dangerous. Please rethink your wedging technique before you get hurt.


----------



## dave k

That seems to be HBRN's latest way of dealing with any comment on his waffle, I too got neg rep from him as did someone else, I'm so upset about it !
In all the rambling and waffle there is some very good info and advice in this thread it's good that it wasn't totaly ruined by one man's foolishness.


----------



## RandyMac

Interlopers come in various shades, some have nefarious operations in progress. The most dangerous brand are the dope growers. One of my younger relatives was flyfishing with a friend, minding their own business, hunting trout in a small stream. A cammo'ed creature with a plastic rifle popped up and threatened them. They left, of course. However being "Family" they stewed some and went back. Short version, things got, well, burnt. That form of activity appealed to the younger set, recons were done, more things were torched. Ah, but all fun must end. While wandering around in a patch, spraying diesel on plants, a large hand attached to a cammo'ed creature snatched this young lad off his feet and left him staring at, a Cop. The Cammo'ed Cop told the lad to finish what he was doing and never do it again. Not known for his wits, the kid did stay out of trouble.
Having encountered bullets myself, they are best avoided. I have on occasion returned fire, that generally allows the other guy time to reflect and quit shooting.
Such was life in Humboldt.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Interlopers come in various shades, some have nefarious operations in progress. The most dangerous brand are the dope growers. One of my younger relatives was flyfishing with a friend, minding their own business, hunting trout in a small stream. A cammo'ed creature with a plastic rifle popped up and threatened them. They left, of course. However being "Family" they stewed some and went back. Short version, things got, well, burnt. That form of activity appealed to the younger set, recons were done, more things were torched. Ah, but all fun must end. While wandering around in a patch, spraying diesel on plants, a large hand attached to a cammo'ed creature snatched this young lad off his feet and left him staring at, a Cop. The Cammo'ed Cop told the lad to finish what he was doing and never do it again. Not known for his wits, the kid did stay out of trouble.
> Having encountered bullets myself, they are best avoided. I have on occasion returned fire, that generally allows the other guy time to reflect and quit shooting.
> Such was life in Humboldt.


 
Was?


----------



## RandyMac

Hey Bob!
Yeah, you are probably right, although I think things have calmed down a bit, I could be wrong.
There are places I would think twice before venturing into, memories are long. Rio Dell is high on the list, so is 'Thorne, Briceland, Harris, Alderpoint.....ok, ok, most everywhere south of Fortuna. Dammit!


----------



## Gologit

I think I could go back to Humboldt with no problem. Not Klamath Falls, though. Elk Creek probably wouldn't be good idea. Or Hayampom either. We stopped at Pollard Flats a month ago and they watched us like hawks. Long memories there.
Kyburz is still off limits...one of our guys threw the jukebox out through the front window of the Kyburz Lodge. We bet him he couldn't do it. He did. He was big. The jukebox was offensive... too many Wayne Newton records on it.
Oh...and the Denny's in Marysville. If you even _look_ like a logger they call the cops. Quick.


----------



## promac850

Gologit said:


> I think I could go back to Humboldt with no problem. Not Klamath Falls, though. Elk Creek probably wouldn't be good idea. Or Hayampom either. We stopped at Pollard Flats a month ago and they watched us like hawks. Long memories there.
> Kyburz is still off limits...one of our guys threw the jukebox out through the front window of the Kyburz Lodge. We bet him he couldn't do it. He did. He was big. The jukebox was offensive... too many Wayne Newton records on it.
> Oh...and the Denny's in Marysville. If you even _look_ like a logger they call the cops. Quick.


 
Lol, jukebox through the window... that's awesome!! Was it a Rowe or AMI? My aunt worked for them for a long, long time.


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> The answer is easy. Scotch Broom.:msp_biggrin:


 
Zing! Right you are. We've burned I think close to a thousand acres of the stuff already this year in the two weeks we've had the weather for it. Another 200 down today alone! Stuff is nasty; the seeds stay viable for up to 60 years, so you have to burn, spray, mow, rip, or whatever other means of destruction over and over again until the seed-bed is completely exhausted... and the next time anything walks or drives through the cycle begins anew. Nothing eats it, it out-competes nearly everything, and it burns hot and fast. Explosive dehiscence throws seeds everywhere. This time of year you can hear the pods snapping everywhere; sounds like popcorn. Thickets get over ten feet tall and are impossible to walk through. The woody stalks at the base can be four inches or more in diameter. I shudder to think how much this state spends each year trying to control Scots' Broom, or giant knotweed, for that matter.


----------



## 2dogs

madhatte said:


> Zing! Right you are. We've burned I think close to a thousand acres of the stuff already this year in the two weeks we've had the weather for it. Another 200 down today alone! Stuff is nasty; the seeds stay viable for up to 60 years, so you have to burn, spray, mow, rip, or whatever other means of destruction over and over again until the seed-bed is completely exhausted... and the next time anything walks or drives through the cycle begins anew. Nothing eats it, it out-competes nearly everything, and it burns hot and fast. Explosive dehiscence throws seeds everywhere. This time of year you can hear the pods snapping everywhere; sounds like popcorn. Thickets get over ten feet tall and are impossible to walk through. The woody stalks at the base can be four inches or more in diameter. I shudder to think how much this state spends each year trying to control Scots' Broom, or giant knotweed, for that matter.


 
We have been dealing with brooms down here too. Some roads the have a dirt shoulder now have a tunnel of broom. View scapes have been lost and turning out of some driveways can be a challenge. The County has banned roadside spraying so now they just ignore the problem. It certainly is job security for some of us.


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## Joe46

Yup, and it's one of the worst for allergy sufferers also. Thankfully I'm not in that category.


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## Cedarkerf

I HATE scotch broom it stinks so bad and looks like krap


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## madhatte

Cedarkerf said:


> I HATE scotch broom it stinks so bad and looks like krap


 

Did you guys see any of our smoke the last couple of days?


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> Did you guys see any of our smoke the last couple of days?



Nope. My neighbors burn stuff a lot.


----------



## paccity

nathan, nope , not down here. but seen your pic's.:msp_smile:


----------



## forestryworks

I see some places in WA are STILL digging out from the snows! Jesus Tap Dancin' Christ! It's so dry around here, you gotta carry a piss can with ya just to fart


----------



## 2dogs

forestryworks said:


> I see some places in WA are STILL digging out from the snows! Jesus Tap Dancin' Christ! Around here, you gotta carry a piss can with ya just to fart


 
What the hay does that mean?


----------



## 8433jeff

2dogs said:


> What the hay does that mean?


 
Its a little dry where hes at.

Or hes ate a lot of Mexican food lately.


----------



## promac850

8433jeff said:


> Its a little dry where hes at.
> 
> Or hes ate a lot of Mexican food lately.


 
Jalapeno peppers and kidney beans in a burrito equals real explosive and flammable farts. Yes, flames... ...flames... ...fire. No, a fireball... yes... that's it. 

They should have a *Warning: Extremely flammable* label on every burrito wrapper...


----------



## madhatte

paccity said:


> nathan, nope , not down here. but seen your pic's.:msp_smile:


 
I ask because we made the news this week:







and I'm curious how far the column was visible. That was Wednesday; Thursday was a bigger column but lower mixing height.


----------



## Samlock

madhatte said:


> Zing! Right you are. We've burned I think close to a thousand acres of the stuff already this year in the two weeks we've had the weather for it. Another 200 down today alone! Stuff is nasty; the seeds stay viable for up to 60 years, so you have to burn, spray, mow, rip, or whatever other means of destruction over and over again until the seed-bed is completely exhausted... and the next time anything walks or drives through the cycle begins anew. Nothing eats it, it out-competes nearly everything, and it burns hot and fast. Explosive dehiscence throws seeds everywhere. This time of year you can hear the pods snapping everywhere; sounds like popcorn. Thickets get over ten feet tall and are impossible to walk through. The woody stalks at the base can be four inches or more in diameter. I shudder to think how much this state spends each year trying to control Scots' Broom, or giant knotweed, for that matter.



Interesting. We have a nasty invasive plant too, Sosnowskyi's Hogweed, aka Stalin's Revenge. It's a Caucasian plant introduced in Carelia in 1947, it was supposed to be food for the cows. Well, cows didn't like the taste of it, and eating the weed made the milk poisonous. The sap causes sunburns on the skin and if it gets in the eyes, blindness. 

The usual procedure here is to cut down the weed and spray the shoots as they emerge. But it doesn't kill the seeds. Well, the problem here is not that bad, but in Russian Carelia the weed is everywhere. That's just sad, and the local people are not crazy about it either. They are not doing anything about it because they don't have money. Roundup is not expensive, but it costs. The human labor is however available and cheap too. That's why I'd like to hear more about your burning methods. I've got some experience in burning the slash on the clear cut fields, but destroying weeds is new to me. Do you cut the weed down first and let it dry? How does it catch fire? Blowtorches? Fuel?

Thanks.


----------



## HeRoze

sooooo....

How 'bout them wedges!!!????

I've never used imigrant workers or kudzu for a wedge, but I might give it a try now :msp_wink:

opcorn:


----------



## Philbert

HeRoze said:


> I've never used imigrant workers or kudzu for a wedge, but I might give it a try now


 
Immigration has long been a 'wedge issue' in politics. Only reason I can figure out how we got here.

Philbert


----------



## promac850

HeRoze said:


> sooooo....
> 
> How 'bout them wedges!!!????
> 
> I've never used imigrant workers or kudzu for a wedge, but I might give it a try now :msp_wink:
> 
> opcorn:


 
I once heard a guy used a midget for a wedge. It wasn't too pretty, but it got the job done.

opcorn:


----------



## madhatte

Samlock said:


> We have a nasty invasive plant too, Sosnowskyi's Hogweed, aka Stalin's Revenge.



Ah, yes -- _Heracleum mantegazzianum_ -- we have it here too. Nasty stuff. I wouildn't recommend burning it, as the toxins will dissipate with the smoke, which is an internal hazard as well as an external one. Same goes for poison ivy/oak/sumac -- a large number of firefighter injuries requiring hospitalization are the result of this inhalation. What you will probably be looking at is a long-term program of cutting, poisoning, and overplanting to suppress the sprouts and prevent reproduction. In the absence of natural predation, the only known way to eradicate a non-native is to become a surrogate predator.


----------



## Samlock

madhatte said:


> Ah, yes -- _Heracleum mantegazzianum_ -- we have it here too. Nasty stuff. I wouildn't recommend burning it, as the toxins will dissipate with the smoke, which is an internal hazard as well as an external one. Same goes for poison ivy/oak/sumac -- a large number of firefighter injuries requiring hospitalization are the result of this inhalation. What you will probably be looking at is a long-term program of cutting, poisoning, and overplanting to suppress the sprouts and prevent reproduction. In the absence of natural predation, the only known way to eradicate a non-native is to become a surrogate predator.



It didn't come to my mind the smoke would be toxic as well. It's a good thing you told me that before I ended up poisoning a village with my good intentions and a blowtorch... The Giant hogweeds are originally Caucasian mountain plants. I wonder what's eating them in their natural environment? Should we take a drive to ##### Armenia and give the bugger a lift? And possibly get something more horrible around us.


----------



## 2dogs

Samlock said:


> It didn't come to my mind the smoke would be toxic as well. It's a good thing you told me that before I ended up poisoning a village with my good intentions and a blowtorch... The Giant hogweeds are originally Caucasian mountain plants. I wonder what's eating them in their natural environment? Should we take a drive to ##### Armenia and give the bugger a lift? And possibly get something more horrible around us.


 
NO NO NO. Please never import a predator of any kind from anywhere. In fact never import ANY plant or you will regret it later. Here on the central California coast we have broom, mustard, English ivy, acacia, magnolia, and a host of other "invasive" species. Millions of tax dollars are spent fighting plants brought in just by the government. This doesn't even cover the other plant pests and diseases brought in by accident. 

We have to pay for entire lakes to be poisoned because introduced pike have eaten all the native fish. Boats can not travel from one body of water to another because they may be transport a shellfish or a water plant.

It just never ends. Do whatever it takes to kill off your particular invasive species but never introduce another plant or animal or insect.


----------



## Gologit

*Invasive species.*

Google "Kudzu" and see what our southern residents have to deal with.


----------



## madhatte

With all the interest co-generational biomass fuel has been getting, I suppose it was only a matter of time before somebody put two and two together and made five. I keep hearing of plans to harvest Scots' Broom as a biomass product... which would mean cultivating a class "C" noxious weed. NO, NO, NO! I realize it's almost impossible to keep an invasive species in check once it's been established, but it CAN be done -- the first example that comes to mind is the Tansy Ragweed infestation in the mid-to-late-80's in the PNW. Sure, it's still around, but outbreaks are few and far between, and quickly attended to. It's all a matter of having a well thought-out and well-executed long-term, landscape-level plan and following it. I have the noxious weeds guys in Thurston and Pierce Counties on my speed dial because I find stuff that needs removal often.


----------



## lfnh

Another that ranks right up on the top of invasive #### list is Multiflora Rose.
Imported from Asia... back in mid 1800's and promoted by the SCS in the '30's for "natural barriers" for livestock (and D6's :laugh) and bird cover-food it is now a nightmare in all but the Rocky Mtn states.

What is up with Oregon State Extension promoting this aggressive thorn ?

Controls being considered. You can't imagine. Try Japanese Beetles or the rose virus that causes multiflora to re-sprount in "broom-like" thickets with a higher density of thorns.
Wow. That's all that comes to me.

Does anyone that's proposing this stuff, _actually _get up, leave the office, go to a work site and _physically exert _themselves removing this "plant" ?


----------



## 2dogs

lfnh said:


> Another that ranks right up on the top of invasive #### list is Multiflora Rose.
> Imported from Asia... back in mid 1800's and promoted by the SCS in the '30's for "natural barriers" for livestock (and D6's :laugh) and bird cover-food it is now a nightmare in all but the Rocky Mtn states.
> 
> What is up with Oregon State Extension promoting this aggressive thorn ?
> 
> Controls being considered. You can't imagine. Try Japanese Beetles or the rose virus that causes multiflora to re-sprount in "broom-like" thickets with a higher density of thorns.
> Wow. That's all that comes to me.
> 
> Does anyone that's proposing this stuff, _actually _get up, leave the office, go to a work site and _physically exert _themselves removing this "plant" ?


 
Weren't both broom and acacia brought in by the SCS?


----------



## lfnh

2dogs said:


> Weren't both broom and acacia brought in by the SCS?


 
Yup. USDA for soil erosion control...


----------



## lfnh

Going back to what Madhatte just mentioned about using Scots' Broom as a biomass product, have read similar lines of "thinking" as a source for oil like rapeseed and its kin.
Problem is these have to be farmed on a huge scale for profit. And past history shows that controls for containing these plant in controlled harvest area just fail.


----------



## promac850

Hear about the Asian Carp yet? Best thing is you can pull as many as you want out of the water. I hear the put up one hell of a fight...

Ever see this video?

[video=youtube_share;0bZ_9B_RlGY]http://youtu.be/0bZ_9B_RlGY[/video]

That's a _*lot*_ of fish...


----------



## lfnh

Try oogling "brownlee resevoir carp" or "Malheur Wildlife carp" and take a look at long this "thinning" work has been going on a where it stands today. Bear in mind any us fed fish wildlife numbers you read can be double for a reality check.


----------



## forestryworks

Gologit said:


> Google "Kudzu" and see what our southern residents have to deal with.


 
That's the kind of plant that takes over entire cities at the end of the world


----------



## hammerlogging

Depending on your scale of course, these are very good for plant removal, especially things like scotch broom.

Weed Wrench Company


----------



## madhatte

Weed Wrench is a good tool. A team of five can clear about 1/2 acre an hour with it. Unfortunately, that doesn't scale well at all to landscape-level management of invasive species. There is no "silver bullet", just a sliding scale of failures and successes, both of which are moving targets. Invasives are no fun at all.


----------



## hammerlogging

good for some volunteers at a park in town.

not to pull the volunteers 

rather so the volunteers can pull some invasives

hard to say sometimes.


----------



## madhatte

hammerlogging said:


> good for some volunteers at a park in town.



Zackly, and that's where I've seen it used to best effect. We also have a group here that organizes regular ivy-killing parties in parks, which is starting to show some effect.


----------



## promac850

lfnh said:


> Try oogling "brownlee resevoir carp" or "Malheur Wildlife carp" and take a look at long this "thinning" work has been going on a where it stands today. Bear in mind any us fed fish wildlife numbers you read can be double for a reality check.


 
Damn... that is a *lot* of fish...

Might be time to get the boat fixed and get out to Brownlee reservoir... I figure the size of that body of water would allow maximum traveling speeds... and quick arrival at the desired fishing location. Might have to get RandyMac to drag his fishing gear with him and meet me at the boat ramp at 1:00 in the morning...  Bet he's got some good stories to tell... we all know he does...

60-65 mph out on the lake sitting in front of a 150 hp Merc sound good RandyMac? It would easily do that with two crazy guys and their fishing gear on board. We've got it up to 45 with it overloaded with me, mom, pops, my brother, the dog, fishing gear, and a cooler full of snacks and drinks. It wanted to go faster, but mommy was screaming, which prompted pops to slow the boat down...

I really need to fix that boat... been three seasons so far that we have not even gotten to go fishing or just run it around the lake at WFO and scare people with it.


----------



## hammerlogging

thats where I first saw it, my wife was doing invasive removal and habitat restoration/ education at the Marin Headlands near San Fran when we first got together. 

8 years or so later I used some grant money to get some for some habitat restoration in a Hurrican Katrina affected urban wildlife area, to be used by untrained folks, volunteers or "intern" types. 

I don't think I'm the only faller who has made a turn or two along the way.


----------



## forestryworks

That thing looks handy for pulling out fenceline #### when re-building barbed wire fences.


----------



## Gologit

hammerlogging said:


> I don't think I'm the only faller who has made a turn or two along the way.


 
You're not. It's called "making a living when there's no trees to cut". During our recent recession two of the best timber fallers I know were stocking shelves at WalMart. They're back on the saw now...and glad to be there.

Knowing them as well as I do I'd bet WalMart is glad they're back in the woods, too.


----------



## madhatte

hammerlogging said:


> I don't think I'm the only faller who has made a turn or two along the way.



I know I'm no faller, and I've certainly made a few turns and expect to make a few more. That's life.


----------



## slowp

We were playing this Duck Hunter - Indoor Flying Duck Hunt Game this morning, and I now see it is an INDOOR game. Anyway, the wind caught the duck and swept it up, and away, and it ended up in the upper part of a large, Douglas-fir. One young man tried to climb the tree, but since the tree had no lower limbs, and he had no climbing gear, that didn't happen.

I offered the use of my wedges, which were in the box of my pickup, and suggested that the tree owner go get his 056 and cut the tree down so we could get the duck out. 

Even with the offer of the use of the orange and yellow wedges, he refused to cut the tree down. So, later on, the wind switched and the duck was safe. I tried...


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## 2dogs

slowp said:


> We were playing this Duck Hunter - Indoor Flying Duck Hunt Game this morning, and I now see it is an INDOOR game. Anyway, the wind caught the duck and swept it up, and away, and it ended up in the upper part of a large, Douglas-fir. One young man tried to climb the tree, but since the tree had no lower limbs, and he had no climbing gear, that didn't happen.
> 
> I offered the use of my wedges, which were in the box of my pickup, and suggested that the tree owner go get his 056 and cut the tree down so we could get the duck out.
> 
> Even with the offer of the use of the orange and yellow wedges, he refused to cut the tree down. So, later on, the wind switched and the duck was safe. I tried...


 
I now have to buy one just to drive the dogs crazy.


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## slowp

2dogs said:


> I now have to buy one just to drive the dogs crazy.



The ducks are quite fragile. The Used Dog started off after the first one, I called him back and told him to stay, and he actually did. He was able to control himself and did not retrieve the ducks. There were two other Labs but they were 12 and 13 year olds who were concentrating on breathing more than retrieving anything.


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## 056 kid

"concentrating on breathing more than retrieving" LOL you make me laugh SlowP!


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## Mastermind

Cork Shoes said:


> Laughing at how you gals keep your Imaginations fired up,due to the need!
> 
> Pass the 12" K&H's and if (3) won't do it,I'm in 65 ton Silvey Mode with a PTO pack running off my bucking saw.
> 
> Just sayin'.


 
Damn you got red fast. Yet another ass hole????


----------



## Steve NW WI

Mastermind said:


> Damn you got red fast. Yet another ass hole????


 
Looks like they got an all expenses paid trip to camp as well. Good riddance. When I looked last night, 19 posts, all of them calling people posers, know nothings, etc.


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## Steve NW WI

Mrs. Corky!

Welcome back - but likely not for long.

Mods - can we ban this one's IP address?


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## RandyMac

Infantile Member
This message is hidden because Busheler is on your ignore list.

:notrolls2:


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## forestryworks

If a pile of #### could speak in the long winded manner of a buffoon, Busheler would be it!


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## forestryworks

Busheler said:


> Texans giving it a whirl now?!!?
> 
> Holy smokes,it don't get much funnier than that! Speak a little Spanish for me,hang a picture of a haybale and then frost it with a Rat Whitetail sluiced from within the fence.
> 
> As an aside,you should give thought to correcting those crossed-eyes,as it's rather unbecoming of a busty broad such as yourself.


 
:monkey: Such a lack of creativity there. You're the world's greatest bloviator! Can you turn your hot air back into ####?


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## paccity

Busheler said:


> Test:


 
i've seen that pic before. hmmmmm?


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## little possum

Too many big words. Back to fallin!


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## Mastermind

What's going on here guys??? 

What about them wedges? Huh?


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## 2dogs

Busheler said:


> Honey,your insecurities are very well founded.
> 
> The only things you are qualified to talk about in the firsthand,are what Midol tastes like and how it feels to traipse around with 50cc's of Vagisil inserted in it's usual location for you.
> 
> I'd take notes and let the men talk...you'll learn sumptin'.


 
Cork Shoes is back already? Man, he must not have much of a life.


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## promac850

2dogs said:


> Cork Shoes is back already? Man, he must not have much of a life.


 
You quoted Bull####ter... not Cork ####s...


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## madhatte

I ban again so soon?


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## paccity

madhatte said:


> I ban again so soon?


 
sorry ya had to do that , but it's for a good cause.:msp_rolleyes:


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## 8433jeff

madhatte said:


> I ban again so soon?


 
I bet hes back in a days time. Thanks for doing what you do, hatter.


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## madhatte

's all good. Just keepin' the peace.


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## 8433jeff

madhatte said:


> 's all good. Just keepin' the peace.


 
And thanks for deleting the posts.


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## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> Can you delete the garbage posts?



Already did, kept the pics because some of them are both interesting and on-topic. Goon's so dense he can't even spam a forum right -- I'm sure he didn't actually MEAN to contribute anything!



8433jeff said:


> And thanks for deleting the posts.



Yer welcome!


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## Mastermind

Back to the trees and wedges. I've got a storm damage job I'm working on that's a real mess. There's a fairly large walnut that's laying on top of four or five other trees. It's around twenty feet up to the first snag and climbs from there. I'll get some pics if anyone's interested.

Oh, wedges ain't gonna help.


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## madhatte

Mastermind said:


> There's a fairly large walnut that's laying on top of four or five other trees.



Think tension. Work from small to large and large to small as necessary to put as much weight on the ground as possible. Don't worry about cleanup until it's safe to be walking around in there.


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## 1375619cm3

Mastermind said:


> Back to the trees and wedges. I've got a storm damage job I'm working on that's a real mess. There's a fairly large walnut that's laying on top of four or five other trees. It's around twenty feet up to the first snag and climbs from there. I'll get some pics if anyone's interested.
> 
> Oh, wedges ain't gonna help.


 

would love to see pictures, another thread might be in order for that storm job. please let us know if you do start one.

thanks,
cody


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## Philbert

Mastermind said:


> There's a fairly large walnut that's laying on top of four or five other trees. It's around twenty feet up to the first snag and climbs from there. . . .Oh, wedges ain't gonna help



I know that you are kidding, but others following the thread might miss it. Storm damage is when the tension and compression is so hard to judge - end bind, side bind, twisting, etc. Wedges are cheap insurance against binds and aggravation when bucking tangled stuff.



madhatte said:


> Think tension. Work from small to large and large to small as necessary to put as much weight on the ground as possible. Don't worry about cleanup until it's safe to be walking around in there.



Tangled stuff 20 feet up is a bit over my head. I like to think of storm damage piles like Pick-Up-Stix or Jenga. Go around and clean up/clear out all the little brush and branches to 'simplify' the problem. Then take it one step at a time. Make a cut - see what moves, what changes. Make another cut. Etc. 

Philbert


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## Mastermind

Philbert said:


> I know that you are kidding, but others following the thread might miss it. Storm damage is when the tension and compression is so hard to judge - end bind, side bind, twisting, etc. Wedges are cheap insurance against binds and aggravation when bucking tangled stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Tangled stuff 20 feet up is a bit over my head. I like to think of storm damage piles like Pick-Up-Stix or Jenga. Go around and clean up/clear out all the little brush and branches to 'simplify' the problem. Then take it one step at a time. Make a cut - see what moves, what changes. Make another cut. Etc.
> 
> Philbert



I do use wedges when bucking probably more than when falling. You're right though I was just joking around. This stuff is a real mess. The trees that are holding it up are 12" - 14" pines and there's a 10" walnut under extreme stress. This is something to take very seriously. 

I'll get some pics tomorrow and start a thread.


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## promac850

Mastermind said:


> I do use wedges when bucking probably more than when falling. You're right though I was just joking around. This stuff is a real mess. The trees that are holding it up are 12" - 14" pines and there's a 10" walnut under extreme stress. This is something to take very seriously.
> 
> I'll get some pics tomorrow and start a thread.


 
Tie a rope around one of them trees and yank her out with a big old pickemup truck. Then limb and buck it up as usual...

Yes, my preferred method can be very messy, and possibly expensive if you don't happen to have a 1" bull rope laying around in the garage or available through a friend, etc...

Remember, you probably want to pull hard with that truck... if you don't, root ball falls back in, rips the frame in half or breaks all of the driveshafts/axles...

Well, what do I know? I ain't HBRN...


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## 2dogs

promac610 said:


> You quoted Bull####ter... not Cork ####s...


 
I figured they are one in the same.


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## KiwiBro

My Jak Max wedges are extra special models. They sing to keep me entertained on the job. A low base thump to start with then rising to a tinking crescendo. Even the trees appreciate my wedges, usually with a single or just a few polite claps near the end of the show.


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## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Already did, kept the pics because some of them are both interesting and on-topic. Goon's so dense he can't even spam a forum right -- I'm sure he didn't actually MEAN to contribute anything!
> 
> 
> 
> Yer welcome!


 
Looks like I missed all the fun last night. That guy might have been a faller, for a while, but if he acted in the woods like he acted on here he wouldn't have lasted long. 

As a rule, the loudest guy on the job is the weakest guy... and it shows up fast.

Thanks for getting rid of him.


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## John Ellison

Gologit said:


> That guy might have been a faller, for a while, but if he acted in the woods like he acted on here he wouldn't have lasted long.
> 
> As a rule, the loudest guy on the job is the weakest guy... and it shows up fast.
> 
> Thanks for getting rid of him.


 
You are so right. Last one I knew like that (top busheler blah blah) is still I think, a prison inmate.


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## madhatte

Gologit said:


> Thanks for getting rid of him.



Still gettin' rid of him, it seems. Wonder what the ban count for today will be?


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## Greystoke

madhatte said:


> Still gettin' rid of him, it seems. Wonder what the ban count for today will be?


 
Just like a turd that won't flush!


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## jerrycmorrow

tarzanstree said:


> Just like a turd that won't flush!


 
guy must be like a computer virus or a grass/forest fire. stomp it out and it comes up somewhere else. this demands due diligence. what a shame a guys(?) gotta be such a schmuck that he gets his jollies trolling.


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## Greystoke

jerrycmorrow said:


> guy must be like a computer virus or a grass/forest fire. stomp it out and it comes up somewhere else. this demands due diligence. what a shame a guys(?) gotta be such a schmuck that he gets his jollies trolling.


 
Just another insecure little Cull that spreads his squallor around on the internet to TRY to make himself feel better. Can't let em win! Keep up with the good work mods


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## madhatte

My guess is that he's unemployed, bored, and bitter. Stirring up some hatred and discontent on an internet forum is probably the most excitement he's seen in awhile.


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## Steve NW WI

madhatte said:


> Still gettin' rid of him, it seems. Wonder what the ban count for today will be?


 
Sent ya some rep. It's the least I could do for keepin this place clean!


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## wyk

madhatte said:


> My guess is that he's unemployed, bored, and bitter. Stirring up some hatred and discontent on an internet forum is probably the most excitement he's seen in awhile.


 
Lonely self-haters are no strangers to the internet...


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## RandyMac

I put them on ignore and carry on. Of you want to engage them have at it, but that is exactly what they want.


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## madhatte

I give 'em three chances, then I ban 'em.


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## 1375619cm3

madhatte said:


> I give 'em three chances, then I ban 'em.


 
Gave ya some rep for being fair but always keeping it clean.
thanks
cody


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## madhatte

Thank _you guys_ for making this forum worth policing!


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## bitzer

Geez, I split for a couple of weeks and all hell breaks loose. Too bad that guy was so full of himself. Decent pics and probably some knowledge to share. #######s never prosper.


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## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> I'll keep you in the loop - Sam


 
Just saw on Facebook that Lumberjack Saloon cancelled the events due to lack of sponsorship

:msp_sad:


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## Metals406

I see little Larry was back again today while I was workin'. . . Maybe he should go back to work, so he ain't here. :biggrinbounce2:

Jake, talk your kin into sponsoring the shindig!!


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## Rounder

Thanks for the heads up Jake, wife and I are working on a plan, she's a hell of a marketer, and we're good friends with the folks that are/were organizing the shindig. We'll see what we can do - Sam


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## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> I see little Larry was back again today while I was workin'. . . Maybe he should go back to work, so he ain't here. :biggrinbounce2:
> 
> Jake, talk your kin into sponsoring the shindig!!


 
Damn man I wish, if I did tho I'd need to get atleast a few events rigged so I could claim my title as Bull of the Woods

"and heeere he goes, Jake Knudsen wins the speed climb" 

BTW, we need to go dump some trees soon mang


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## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Damn man I wish, if I did tho I'd need to get atleast a few events rigged so I could claim my title as Bull of the Woods
> 
> "and heeere he goes, Jake Knudsen wins the speed climb"
> 
> BTW, we need to go dump some trees soon mang


 
Speed climb eh? 

And old Nater here is gonna win the best dressed prize! Hahahaha


Hellz yeah booooy! We gonna get our loggin' on here soon. The Chevy is on the road again, I bought an equalizer hitch in Eureka for a song, and Now I just need to do a little work to the trailer.

This is my last week at the shop, so I'll have a lot more time for "me" projects.

Damn power just went out for a minute. . . There's been quite the thunder boomer out west here for the last hour.


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## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Speed climb eh?
> 
> And old Nater here is gonna win the best dressed prize! Hahahaha
> 
> 
> Hellz yeah booooy! We gonna get our loggin' on here soon. The Chevy is on the road again, I bought an equalizer hitch in Eureka for a song, and Now I just need to do a little work to the trailer.
> 
> This is my last week at the shop, so I'll have a lot more time for "me" projects.
> 
> Damn power just went out for a minute. . . There's been quite the thunder boomer out west here for the last hour.


 
Oh hell yeah, ol' Uncle Jake is sellin his bow and setup and gon' be huntin for a 660 that I _obviously_ need :jester:
Power got blacked out here for a bit too, it's one helluva storm


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## Sport Faller

Roma said:


> Did you guys get that crazy hail too?


 
yeah, it sounded like junkies were on the roof trying to dig through with tablespoons


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## madhatte

"Quote Of The Day" right there, for sure!


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## Metals406

Roma said:


> Did you guys get that crazy hail too?


 
No junkies with spoons for me, just rain.


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## Mastermind

Here's a link to the thread about the storm damage we're cleaning up.

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/178252.htm#post3094386


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## Ricky008

Never used a wedge in this tree.... stihl 440 , mdavlee and paccity like this


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

*Beaver State Plastics*

Talked to the owner of Beaver State Plastics. We talked for quite a spell. She is quite well versed in the timber industries. They do not sell seconds or defect wedges,only the best wedges. We talked about a wedge design I have been toying with for pecker pole trees. Their operation is quite wide and diverse. They sell wedges to one of the site sponsors:msp_thumbup: Now I am going to have a new reason to lose a few of my older wedges :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## Roundest File

can u halve a link for help?

thanx!


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## promac850

Aw ####... it's back again... :msp_thumbdn:


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC

Roundest File said:


> can u halve a link for help?
> 
> thanx!


 
Speak plain old English mate


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## Philbert

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Talked to the owner of Beaver State Plastics.


 
They make the Hard Head and Hard Head Jr wedges I mentioned earlier.

Philbert


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## Rounder

Started a new unit. Lodgepole only, all the nice big ones are marked to leave. Awesome. Wait till the first wind....

Anyhow, got tired of packing around this ####.

View attachment 196846


Well, #### that. Stopped in the shop this morning and picked up a mag-wedge/ molly. Wrapped the handle with knee wrap stuff. Also got a fancy wedge pouch. My pockets are so wallowed out that I lose wedges as fast as I can buy them.

If nothing else this'll force me to use a little more finesse with my wedges....Nothing sillier looking than a guy beating his brains out. The axe will ride in the pack...just in case.

Anyhow, this should make for a good LP rig - Hope you all are enjoying your weekend - Sam

View attachment 196847

View attachment 196848

View attachment 196849


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## Samlock

My Lodgepole rig used to be another hole for my belt. A forest company UPM imported and planted LP in Finland in the 80's. The tree grows quite well, but it doesn't take the local climate too well. It doesn't drop the limbs, the result is there is a lot of snow downs in the stands over 10'' DBH. It makes some nightmarish messes the harvesters can not handle. Every time we found out there will be a LP stand ahead, we knew the (busheling) paycheck will not pay butter on bred.

That's one of the reasons I'm glad I don't work for UPM anymore.


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## forestryworks

My first timber falling experience was falling lodgepole in Northern CO three years ago.

The first tree I faced up, backed up with a 5" wedge, 3rd swing of the axe and the butt of the wedge snaps clean off. Had to wait for the skidder driver to come give me a push 

I was on that job for about a week before I saw what little money I was bringing home and what bills weren't gonna get paid.

Tall and skinny and whippy. But it sure smelled good working there, brought the smell home on my clothes. 
A few of the bank ladies liked it too


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## promac850

Not sure where else to post this... so here it is... I bought a nice Swiss military surplus axe yesterday at a great surplus store a fair ways north of me... note the short handle... it makes it easier to carry in a backpack, and even though it's short, it's heavy. I imagine it'd be a good choice for those that like to use an axe to beat on wedges, rather than a little hammer, but don't want to deal with a full length handle axe, and want similar wedge smacking capabilities... this axe may be what you want to look for. It's the real Swiss deal.







Yes, it's pretty sharp. I'm still going to work over that edge a little to get it real sharp...

So... what do ya'll think? opcorn:


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## lfnh

Decent looking grain in the handle - better than the run-of-the-mill stuff now.
Looks like the heel has been radiused, but can't tell how much.
Any maker mark on the head ?


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## promac850

lfnh said:


> Decent looking grain in the handle - better than the run-of-the-mill stuff now.
> Looks like the heel has been radiused, but can't tell how much.
> Any maker mark on the head ?


 
No maker mark, I may have missed it though. I'll check again to be sure.

I'm thinking it's probably made by Victorinix, which you all probably know is the company that is very well known for the famous and very handy dandy Swiss Army Knife...

It may be that they only used the Swiss cross rather than the Swiss cross in the shield as Victorinix uses... maybe to conceal identity or more likely that since stuff is usually contracted, none that do make these axes put their name on them, in agreement with the Swiss military, and only stamp the Swiss country cross in.

All I know is it's a dang good deal on an axe of this quality. Not to mention you'll have a hell of a time finding one that's anywhere near as well made in Lowe's or at the hardware store...

Surplus stores are fun to go to...  I also bought an IFAK (Individual First Aid Kit) and a VFAK (Vehicle First Aid Kit)

Also a couple of the large A.L.I.C.E. packs, and some of the clips that hold pouches on as well...

Also, this guy sold a deuce and a half, with a trailer _and_ generator to *one* guy... 

I might be the next guy to make the store owner happy by buying a deuce and a half, a trailer, and_ two _generators... truck is about 5500 (these are completely refurbished, painted, new fluids, tires, etc.) trailer is 1000 IIRC, and a generator is probably about 2000 or so.

So... a deuce and a half... hell, I'd drive it to Meijers to pick up groceries, and also park it on top of a Pruis!!!


----------



## Rounder

Looks like a decent little axe. Go abuse it and let us know how it works. I'll try to remember to report back on the Molly after work tomorrow.


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## dave k

Picked up a couple of new axes this last week, the light Husky one for light work ! the Stihl is a good size and weight for the bigger stuff.


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## v8drinker

*Wedges*

You guys are a trip. I've sifted through this thread and found some good info and enjoyed the stories from the old timers.

I like the Double Taper "extra lift" wedges in 7 1/4 and 10", these two in particular are fat at the tip so they fill the kerf and stay put even when barely sticking into the tree. But if you wait too late and let one sit back on you before setting a wedge, you'll never get them in. I've also carried a couple of the rifled stacking Black Bear wedges, don't use them all that often but I've been glad to have them when I wanted them. A couple of baby green wedges and that's all. I've never really used the 12" grampy wedges, probably should try them out but with the mostly pecker poles I've been cutting lately I'd rarely have a chance to pound one all the way in.

Tom
.


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## ShaneLogs

STIHL wedges for me


----------



## Philbert

*Thread Bump
*
You just don't find 50 pages of discussion on '_what makes the best falling wedge_' in Better Homes and Gardens . . . . .

Philbert


----------



## Westboastfaller

So I never seen this thread, 1000 replys^^^ "favorite wedge" (part 2)
It's all been said before...orrrr has it?
When all else on hand fails
There may be the air crane flying a 'beer can'
Yeah that's my favorite.


----------



## Samlock

Merry Christmas to you too, sir!

There is indeed something new about the narrowing subject of wedges. You see, the Chinese finally figured out their plastic issues - their wedges won't chip away as they used to. You can now buy yourself a pair of 8'' wedges for just five quids, not for a tenner a piece as before. That means granpa can keep his wooden leg all to himself this Christmas! Mibbe next year we can afford a drop of oil for the knee hinge. He's afraid of termites, though.

Joy.


----------



## TreeswingerPerth

K + H here nothing else , found the Oregon one's break too easy .


----------



## rwoods

Falling wedges??? I thought you guys were pros.  

Just read this YouTube comment:

"*He did get the job done, but he used too much time and effort in doing so. It is not necessary to use wedges to make a tree fall. Let the saw do the work!. When using wedges it takes more time and energy by hammering them in. If the tree does not fall, it takes away access points for the saw to cut from.*"  

He is technically right of course, you don't need a wedge "to make a tree fall".

I would have thought the video may provoke some long bar discussion and a discussion of choice of wedges (one looks to be mushroomed), stacking and driving tool but not the above.



Ron


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> Falling wedges??? I thought you guys were pros.
> 
> Just read this YouTube comment:
> 
> "*He did get the job done, but he used too much time and effort in doing so. It is not necessary to use wedges to make a tree fall. Let the saw do the work!. When using wedges it takes more time and energy by hammering them in. If the tree does not fall, it takes away access points for the saw to cut from.*"
> 
> He is technically right of course, you don't need a wedge "to make a tree fall".
> 
> I would have thought the video may provoke some long bar discussion and a discussion of choice of wedges (one looks to be mushroomed), stacking and driving tool but not the above.
> 
> 
> 
> Ron



The fellow must have a forest of trees that all lean the way they need to be felled or he falls them all over the place & half of them remain hung up.


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## Gypo Logger

I couldn't tell in the video, but leaving in an unitentional dutchman makes for difficult if not impossible wedging.
His last cut severed his dutchman, allowing the tree to fall.


----------



## rwoods

Happy New Year, Bw & GL. Ron


----------

