# Why DdRT?



## Carburetorless (Feb 5, 2012)

The more I read, the more I come across posts where people say they use SRT to ascend, but then switch to DdRT once they get into the canopy to work, because it's easier to move around on DdRT.

Why is it easier to maneuver in the canopy on DdRT, as opposed to SRT, isn't the method you're accustomed to using always the easiest?


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## tree md (Feb 5, 2012)

That's a good question.

A lot of new school arborists are working off of SRT Systems these days. Check out Kevin Bingam's stuff here. And Tom Dunlap and his brother Jim are great resources. Do a search!


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## Carburetorless (Feb 5, 2012)

tree md said:


> That's a good question.
> 
> A lot of new school arborists are working off of SRT Systems these days. Check out Kevin Bingam's stuff here. And Tom Dunlap and his brother Jim are great resources. Do a search!



I did a search for "SRT vs DdRT" and entered their names and got no matches.


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## tree md (Feb 5, 2012)

Check your PM.


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## beastmaster (Feb 7, 2012)

I use SRT 90% of the time now. But if I am doing some dicey limb walking I prefer DdRT and my Vt. I feel better balanced holding on to two ropes, and it's easier to pull my self back from a tip on a long skinny branch using each side to stabilize me as i advance.
Each Technic has it's time and place.


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## Carburetorless (Feb 7, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> I use SRT 90% of the time now. But if I am doing some dicey limb walking I prefer DdRT and my Vt. I feel better balanced holding on to two ropes, and it's easier to pull my self back from a tip on a long skinny branch using each side to stabilize me as i advance.
> Each Technic has it's time and place.



It is nice to have an extra leverage point or two.

Do you ever use a distel in place of the VT? The VT seems to get disorganized pretty easily, the distel on the other hand keeps it shape and slides easy so I prefer the distel for those reasons combined.


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## Fireaxman (Feb 7, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> The more I read, the more I come across posts where people say they use SRT to ascend, but then switch to DdRT once they get into the canopy to work, because it's easier to move around on DdRT.
> 
> Why is it easier to maneuver in the canopy on DdRT, as opposed to SRT, isn't the method you're accustomed to using always the easiest?



DdRT is easier to maneuver working in the canopy because you dont have to switch from ascender to descender every time you want to change direction up to down. A RADS off of SRT equipment also works very well, ascend SRT then install your descender under your ascender with a pully back up on your ascender, and then an extra carabiner next to your descender to keep the tail close to your hand for limb walking and re-directs.

Oh- Also - DdRT is better exercise. More strenuous. Good for upper body on long ascents.


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## Carburetorless (Feb 7, 2012)

Fireaxman said:


> DdRT is easier to maneuver working in the canopy because you dont have to switch from ascender to descender every time you want to change direction up to down. A RADS off of SRT equipment also works very well, ascend SRT then install your descender under your ascender with a pully back up on your ascender, and then an extra carabiner next to your descender to keep the tail close to your hand for limb walking and re-directs.



I've been hearing a lot about that type of system lately, it's probably the way I'll end up going.



> Oh- Also - DdRT is better exercise. More strenuous. Good for upper body on long ascents.



I have a chin up bar and a weight bench for upper body strength. SRT is enough to make my arms hurt, I guess the weights just don't work the muscles the same as the rope does.


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## Fireaxman (Feb 7, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> I have a chin up bar and a weight bench for upper body strength. SRT is enough to make my arms hurt, I guess the weights just don't work the muscles the same as the rope does.



That's kinda what got me bummed out about the weights. Too specific on muscel groups. You have to really know what you are training for to target the necessary muscel groups. So, sold my weights and now try to concoct exercise routines that work the muscel groups and skills needed for my activities. For instance, I have a tag line in a 90 foot Loblolly outside my front door. If I do not climb on a project for a couple of days, I DdRT 75 feet up the Loblolly three times to stay in shape.


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## Carburetorless (Feb 7, 2012)

Fireaxman said:


> That's kinda what got me bummed out about the weights. Too specific on muscel groups. You have to really know what you are training for to target the necessary muscel groups. So, sold my weights and now try to concoct exercise routines that work the muscel groups and skills needed for my activities. For instance, I have a tag line in a 90 foot Loblolly outside my front door. If I do not climb on a project for a couple of days, I DdRT 75 feet up the Loblolly three times to stay in shape.



I've been trying to work the ropes every other day to give the muscles a day off to recover.

O.K. I have to ask; What's a Loblolly tree???


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## Reg (Feb 7, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> The more I read, the more I come across posts where people say they use SRT to ascend, but then switch to DdRT once they get into the canopy to work, because it's easier to move around on DdRT.
> 
> Why is it easier to maneuver in the canopy on DdRT, as opposed to SRT, isn't the method you're accustomed to using always the easiest?



DdRT has been around treework for decades, the principles of which are real easy to grasp with only a small amount of gear needed to set up a basic climbing system. Its certainly more user-friendly and forgiving to use while building your conditioning, balance and all else involved in learning to safely climb/work a tree. I was DdRT for 22 years until just recently I totally switched to SRT, with great results. 

What put me off in the past was seeing photos of guys with heaps of gear involved....but when I eventually did try it I realised that I didn't need half of that stuff, not the RADS and only the hand Ascender for long ascents. A more intense kind-of strength is needed from time-to-time but which is rewarded by the sheer efficiency of which you can get up and around a canopy. Some of the rules are different of course but the options many and rich.

I would never recommend it to a beginer though....in fact not without at least 2-3 years DdRT on all kinds of trees and tasks under their belt. Nor could I see it being much use for crane removals where its main attributes would be largely redundant. 

Sooner or later though you know someones going to get hurt or killed, just like DdRT, there's gotta be a first....and when that happens there'll be a lot of fingers being pointed around the place, hence I believe the reluctance of people to openly give 'advice' as such. Lots of stuff on youtube, keywords obviously SRT, Rope-wrench, unicender etc. Good luck


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## Fireaxman (Feb 9, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> O.K. I have to ask; What's a Loblolly tree???



Loblolly is one of the common Southern yellow pines. Commonly grow to about 125 feet, although most of our really big ones were taken out by Katrina in 2005. Known for providing long, clean, streight stems in close growth stands, fast growing; also known for snapping off about half way up in hurricanes. Some of them went all the way to the slab in Katrina on some houses in subdivisions on the North Shore of Lake Ponchartrain.

I like 'em though. Nice ride on a breezy day.

View attachment 222760


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## Carburetorless (Feb 9, 2012)

Fireaxman said:


> Loblolly is one of the common Southern yellow pines. Commonly grow to about 125 feet, although most of our really big ones were taken out by Katrina in 2005. Known for providing long, clean, streight stems in close growth stands, fast growing; also known for snapping off about half way up in hurricanes. Some of them went all the way to the slab in Katrina on some houses in subdivisions on the North Shore of Lake Ponchartrain.
> 
> I like 'em though. Nice ride on a breezy day.



That must be what they call a Jaaawja Pine. 

View attachment 222760


That looks like EF-1 damage.


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## tree md (Feb 9, 2012)

EF-1 is where a treeman wants to be... Believe me, EF-4 and 5 is nothing but dozer work.


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## Carburetorless (Feb 9, 2012)

tree md said:


> EF-1 is where a treeman wants to be... Believe me, EF-4 and 5 is nothing but dozer work.



We had an EF-3 near here back in the spring, about all there was to do was climb up and chunk off a few branches that were completely stripped and broken off about 4 or 5 feet from the branch collars, then drop the log.

There rest of the branches were wadded up inside and up under structures that were left standing.

Those larger storms though, they're just giant hybrid blender/vacuum cleaner/monsters that grind and rip the crap out of anything in their way. 

I rode out an EF-0 in my vehicle, it tore up some stuff, mostly my nerves.

Makes me want to build a bomb shelter.


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## Fireaxman (Feb 9, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> I rode out an EF-0 in my vehicle, it tore up some stuff, mostly my nerves.
> 
> Makes me want to build a bomb shelter.



Yessir. I rode out Katrina under the Loblollies. I now own a very fine storm shelter.


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## tree md (Feb 9, 2012)

I met a dump truck driver at a truck stop when I first got to Alabama after the storms. He was telling me that him and his wife where in a storm shelter at their home where an F-4 came though. He said he could tell the exact moment that the storm passed over them because his wife's hair stood strait up in the air from the vacuum in the vent. Said his neighbor found a body in his back yard that came from an area an hour away. He said there was still debris dropping from the sky an hour after the storm passed.


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## Iustinian (Feb 10, 2012)

A few things come to mind regarding Single Rope Technique, some of which I discussed lightly in another topic today --

SRT was developed by cavers and spelunkers, rock climbers as a rope access system. I have no doubts that it was designed as access only, not envisioned being used for work positioning. 

the thing about srt is that it tends to function much better on a static rope (no stretch, no bounce) but a static rope is not necessarily appropriate for work positioning, and certainly not appropriate for fall arrest. 

If you check out rock climbing and the lead climber methods, they climb the rock/wall, and use a dynamic rope in case the need for fall arrest arises -- they are not climbing the rope, they are climbing the wall. And you wouldn't want to use a dynamic rope in a rope access type of situation -- they are very stretchy, very bouncy. To the extent that you would be very frustrated if you tried using a dynamic rock climbing rope for access in a tree, which I have experimented with. 

srt came/comes into play for a rock climber/caver/spelunker when they are trying to access another point from which to do a wall climb, abseil, etc., using the srt to bypass areas they couldn't reach by climbing, or gaining access to a more desirable location to begin a climb from.

So that's the thing, static ropes perform best for srt, but really shouldn't be relied upon for fall arrest, and if you've ever fallen on a static line, you know it -- it hurts, shakes the hell out of you. A fall on a dynamic rope wont shock you a whole lot, but the dynamic rope is going to bound and stretch, making it less desirable to ascend on. 

This is also true of the difference of an approved fall arrest harness vs a work positioning harness -- our tree climbing saddles are work positioning harness, they are not approved for fall arrest. 

Additionally, a safety consideration is that using srt would most of the time require that the branch your line is hanging on, be capable of supporting double your weight, if the standing part of your line is anchored to the base of the tree. In drt, each side of the line is supporting half of your weight, so theoretically, it is less sensitive to movement as well. 

As far as actual work goes, on srt, for a 70 ascent, you pull 70ft of rope thru your gear; conversely, for drt on a 70ft ascent, you must pull 140 ft of line thru your gear. 

IMO for efficiencies' sake, along with consideration of the safest methods/best practices, that's why those people are switching after the asend, they use the srt for access, and then switch to drt for work positioning 

I do something different everyday, just depends on the tree, heres a pic that enables me to footlock and drt using the same TIP


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