# Ethanol-free gas



## Banguts (Dec 7, 2017)

Is there an octane that is too high and shouldn't run in my saws? The only place near me is 100 octane aviation fuel from the airport.


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## earlthegoat2 (Dec 7, 2017)

What kind of aviation fuel? The aviation fuel I'm familiar with is more akin to diesel than gasoline.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 7, 2017)

Not a good idea to use 100LL.

It's technically illegal to use in a chainsaw (chainsaws are EPA regulated) plus the fumes are a neurotoxin. And then there's the whole $6-7/gallon thing too. May as well just use "canned" fuel.

100LL has about 4x the TEL then pre 1970s mogas did, it's pretty nasty stuff all considering. In a plane at least you aren't sucking on the exhaust fumes the whole time it's running (unlike with a chainsaw)


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## Banguts (Dec 7, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Not a good idea to use 100LL.
> 
> It's technically illegal to use in a chainsaw (chainsaws are EPA regulated) plus the fumes are a neurotoxin. And then there's the whole $6-7/gallon thing too. May as well just use "canned" fuel.
> 
> 100LL has about 4x the TEL then pre 1970s mogas did, it's pretty nasty stuff all considering. In a plane at least you aren't sucking on the exhaust fumes the whole time it's running (unlike with a chainsaw)


I just called up there, they said that it's perfect for a chainsaw, and "the fumes don't bother me at all."
I'm in the dark on the matter, but, where you are saying 100 isn't good to run, what octane is the highest you would run? Most of the premix I've ever seen is 92-93..


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## Banguts (Dec 7, 2017)

earlthegoat2 said:


> What kind of aviation fuel? The aviation fuel I'm familiar with is more akin to diesel than gasoline.


Sorry, I didn't se this post til just now, wasn't meaning to ignore you. I'm not sure, but when I told them it was for chainsaw use, immediately told me it's the best you can use. $4.25/gal.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 7, 2017)

Banguts said:


> I just called up there, they said that it's perfect for a chainsaw, and "the fumes don't bother me at all."
> I'm in the dark on the matter, but, where you are saying 100 isn't good to run, what octane is the highest you would run? Most of the premix I've ever seen is 92-93..



It's not the octane, it's the fact that is has a high level of TEL (Tetra Ethyl Lead). Same stuff that was banned in the 70s for mogas.

It was banned because of the pollution and high levels of lead in everyone's blood. It's still used in AVGAS because there hasn't been a replacement that the FFA has approved yet. Also the EPA doesn't have exhaust laws on aircraft like they do on cars/trucks and ***.

No, it won't kill right after running a few gallons, though why risk it if you don't need to?
If you are using saws quite a bit, just run normal gasahol and plan on replacing the fuel system. If you aren't using them often, run the canned fuel.


I'm very surprised that an airport in Cali would say it was fine for you. Even here, where there is a "meh" attitude toward most of the restrictive "sort of b/s" laws it's not allowed. You can fill cans at the airport, no one will really question that, but if you tell them it's for a car, saw, etc, nope.


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## Banguts (Dec 7, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> It's not the octane, it's the fact that is has a high level of TEL (Tetra Ethyl Lead). Same stuff that was banned in the 70s for mogas.
> 
> It was banned because of the pollution and high levels of lead in everyone's blood. It's still used in AVGAS because there hasn't been a replacement that the FFA has approved yet. Also the EPA doesn't have exhaust laws on aircraft like they do on cars/trucks and ***.
> 
> ...


And that's even with the low lead fuel? I'm assuming that's what the LL meant when you said 100LL.


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## LonestarStihl (Dec 7, 2017)

I run 100ll and it runs great. The guys at the airport say they use it as well. I use it in all my 2 cycle, the mower, generator... as long as you don’t use it in your vehicle because of tax stuff. My stuff runs great on t with zero issues. Probably better


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## Banguts (Dec 8, 2017)

Well... bring on the lead!


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## Little Al (Dec 8, 2017)

I guess you could say we're lucky or the powers that be are forward thinking our petrol /gas/essence contains NO E whatso ever in any of the available fuel grades Im a sceptic & keep testing a sample when the tank gets topped up BUT so far no sign of the dreaded E


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## Conquistador3 (Dec 8, 2017)

Little Al said:


> I guess you could say we're lucky or the powers that be are forward thinking our petrol /gas/essence contains NO E whatso ever in any of the available fuel grades Im a sceptic & keep testing a sample when the tank gets topped up BUT so far no sign of the dreaded E



I know for sure 98RON available in France is ethanol free. 95 seems to be a regional thing: pumps in most of PACA have stickers warning about ethanol content but not in Alsace and only in a few places in ARA, so I take the 95RON available in the latter places is still ethanol free. 

In Germany only some top grade gasoline grades are ethanol free: Aral 102 is the most commonly available.

In Italy, Spain and Austria all gasoline contains ethanol. 

In Switzerland there's no Federal or Cantonal mandate to blend ethanol and as far as I know most gasoline is ethanol free. I will ask my brother about Norway.

Now, I know for all the PR spin ethanol blending was born as a farm subsidy in the US, but I have been wondering what's up with the EU: a more than significant amount of all ethanol consumed needs to be imported, with some countries (such as Sweden) having to import all the ethanol they blend. This ethanol is mostly produced in Latin America from sugar cane and brokered by Swiss firms so it's surely a subsidy to _somebody_...


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## Brian72 (Dec 8, 2017)

I know a few guys that run it and they've never had any problems. Actually, quite the opposite. No gunky carbs. I'm all for reducing pollution but the EPA regulations on fuels is simply a money game. The ethanol isn't as efficient and it's hard on the fuel system. Pretty much why it's not run in planes. If planes start falling out of the sky because of gummed up fuel systems, people would wake up to the whole ethanol myth. This is why CAT quit making diesel engines for big trucks. The EPA regulations are so out of control, they're forced to re-design every few years to comply with unrealistic expectations. Ever notice fuel mileage hasn't varied much in 25 yrs? Less fuel=less tax for them. Instead, we're forced to deal with all the bolt-on gadgets and gizmos that are less reliable, three times the cost and have absolutely no engine benefits at all.

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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 8, 2017)

No Gasahol in planes because it absorbs water which could freeze.
Plus AVGAS hasn't really changed in 75 years, they aren't exactly in a hurry.

I never said 100ll won't work in ***, I said inhaling lead fumes is not good.


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## Brian72 (Dec 8, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> No Gasahol in planes because it absorbs water which could freeze.
> Plus AVGAS hasn't really changed in 75 years, they aren't exactly in a hurry.
> 
> I never said 100ll won't work in ***, I said inhaling lead fumes is not good.


I agree and I certainly hope you don't think my post was a shot at you. Just saying the quality of ethanol fuel sucks and we're pretty much forced to buy the crap.

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## Banguts (Dec 8, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I never said 100ll won't work in ***, I said inhaling lead fumes is not good.



In regards to this, I could have worded my initial question better. Where you had responded with concerns for my health and harm done to me by the fumes, which, by the way, I appreciate, but the intent of my inquiry was to find out if there could be harm done to my saw by running too pure of a fuel. Good lookin out, though.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 8, 2017)

I'll be fine in a saw.

Its just the lead isn't a good thing.

If you don't run the saws much, the canned premix fuel is a much better choice, as it's specifically designed for this.

If you are running saws daily, I'd just run the gasahol.

Ideally would be unleaded gas (no gasahol) but it doesn't seem to really be available in Cali.


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## Thefishguy77 (Dec 25, 2017)

I’m lucky. Where I live in Washington all the non-name brand gas stations have only ethanol free fuel. I run 92 in all my saws, generator, and outboards. 


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## buzz sawyer (Dec 25, 2017)

Here is a site that lists non-ethanol gas stations. https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html

You don't need 100+ octane in a stock saw. Keep in mind - the higher the octane, the slower it burns - to prevent pre-igintiion and detonation.

Leaded fuel will kill the cataliytic converter in your vehicle.


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