# Some people



## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

Last Monday I was bucking some logs I'd been wanting to get cut up. I started at 9am and planned on cutting until it started getting hot. At 9:30, I noticed a Lexus SUV coming down the slightly improved logging road I call a driveway. The occupant, a middle aged woman pulled up, got out and started blasting me for disrupting her solitude. 
Over the summer, she and her husband had built a weekend getaway on a piece of property adjoining my 150 acres. She has 20 acres but built her house about 50' off of my property line. My wood processing area is about 300yds from her house.
She explained that she had built this weekend place to escape civilization and the incessant noise from my sawing wood would not be tolerated. 
I didn't know what to say, my initial reaction was to tell her to go f' herself but I decided to try and reason with her instead, Not one of my better decisions. I tried to explain that I heated with wood and cutting was necessary to keep my house warm. She suggested I get a better job so I could afford electric heat, like the rest of the civilized world. She also suggested that I build a new access to my house because the dust from me driving on my road was creating dust problems for her. At that point I realized that trying to reason with this woman was a lost cause. 
I packed up my saws and headed home. 
Yesterday, I was talking to one of the other neighbors who told me that this coming weekend, this woman and her husband are having a few other couples out for the weekend to "decompress."
Sounds like a good time for a night shoot. I recently put up lights on my range. 
I think I'll even invite my buddy, the Sheriff, he likes shooting at night.
Early Sat and Sun morning will be the perfect time to finish bucking those logs, if it's nice out, I might cut all day.
My wife wants to drop in the next time this couple is out and invite them over for a drink.
Good idea dear, let me know how that works out. 
Too bad, I'm fresh out of Hemlock.


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## Gavman (Sep 6, 2013)

Was she good looking at least??


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

Gavman said:


> Was she good looking at least??



In a Wicked Witch of the West kinda way.


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## Gavman (Sep 6, 2013)

srb08 said:


> In a Wicked Witch of the West kinda way.



Im picturing some 60 something white hair female in a pink tracksuit that is too tight for her 5 foot tall 260 pound frame.... with a very small quiet husband


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

Gavman said:


> Im picturing some 60 something white hair female in a pink tracksuit that is too tight for her 5 foot tall 260 pound frame.... with a very small quiet husband



I would guess mid to late 40's, skinny, with a boob job. 


Needs a lobotomy.


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## maulhead (Sep 6, 2013)

you made your mistake when you tried to reason with her (see picture, in this case it is SHE not he)

View attachment 313316


hopefully you dont upset her decompressing weekend,, LOL!


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## Deprime (Sep 6, 2013)

opcorn:

Sounds like this might be a good one!


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## pennsywoodburnr (Sep 6, 2013)

I'll be #######ed if some lady had the nerve to drive up on my property and then proceed to tell me what I could or could not do on said property! She and her husband decided to build a house only a stones throw away and then ##### and moan about you cutting up wood?? As much as I hate to say it, there will be no truce between you and her. You'll cut, she'll call the cops and complain, you'll have to explain yourself to the police when they arrive. They'll drive off and the whole process will repeat itself. Good thing your buddy is a sheriff.


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## blades (Sep 6, 2013)

There is no good way to deal with city slickers who move to the country ( not trying ruffel any feathers here) for solitude. They forgot to look up the definition of the word for starters and then think that every amenity that was available in the city should be at there door step. Over the years, here in suburbia, I have had some real classics. Just got a new set to my west, do not know how that is going playout yet. Have one that was a constant pain about some big willows always #####in about sticks leaves ect. The willows are all gone now( that was a lot of work), yep you guessed it now they are #####in about the sun in the afternoon that those trees used to block. Told him to plant his own, on his property. Ones across the street think that the back side of my place is a good dumping zone for their yard waste (conservancy area behind me) The 90ft long 5' high 4ft deep split fire wood fence should correct that difficulty ( yard waste dumping on city property is a ordinance violation ). They will likely ##### about my firewood(30 + cord stacked along the back property line which will block their access to their favorite dumping zone) It's called passive resistance. No confrontations. As my heritage is Russian/German it is not a particularly good idea to tick off the good humor man.Got a long fuse, Mt St Hellens on the end of it though.


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## GeeVee (Sep 6, 2013)

Must not have been a big place if it only took the summer to build. They ought to put the wheels back on it and move to the other side of their 20 acres.

I wouldn't wait, confront them right away, as you plan to.

Lack of planning and proper preliminary investigation caused them to be that close, but she has no argument with any validity. 

Remind them you are full time, its your HOME. And they are part timers- If they want someone they can trust to call in case of emergency, they need to suck it up. If they want someone who doens't give a #### if their house has storm damage, keep complaining. 

Move your driveway?

Your sawing wood would not be tolerated? 

"I have a potty mouth" should have been the FIRST thing you replied.

PLEASE work like the proverbial squirrel this weekend and get your things ready for winter- go out of your way to cut wood and grade your driveway a few times too. Absolutely do whatever necessary for them to want to come on your property to rant at you, and tell them in no short order, "This is what I do on my land, what you want is what you want, but You have no chance at me fulfilling your WANTs, if it isn't matching your WANTS or NEEDS. "

I'd get on top of this right away. 

Please keep us informed.


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 6, 2013)

Also keep a big pile of leaves to burn when the wind is blowing in their direction.


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## mtfallsmikey (Sep 6, 2013)

I thought people from Mo. were already decompressed. The's one fella here at work (Near Ground Zero) from Mo., real nice, friendly, extremely conservative country boy. The Yupster you described could have been from the suburbs of D.C., or Md., but guess they are all the same, 'cept that instead of the Lexus, it would have been a Marcedes Beenz or Infiniti SUV..... Ain't America grand?


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## haveawoody (Sep 6, 2013)

After being told to get electricity I would do just that, get a long extension cord and stop over and ask if you can plug in your electric chainsaw to them.

Being a nice neighbour and all you decided to go with electric for them 

If that isn't acceptable then the words GET BENT or CLOSE YOUR WINDOWS while I'm sawing should work. LOL


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## RVALUE (Sep 6, 2013)

Invite her to get herself a chainsaw, and come join in some real fun..... Mention that 3 can be more fun than 2. She may very well enjoy it. 




Just a thought. I know it's easier to coach from the sidelines than the battlefield.






Tarry on.


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## Festus (Sep 6, 2013)

You should have just started your chain saw, turned away and commenced to cutting.

I can't stand it when city people move out to the country, get involved with the town board, and proceed to mess up all the things that make country living so great. These people can't see past the end of their own noses. I'm not exactly thrilled when my neighbor spreads liquid manure on the fields around me, but hey, I new what I was getting into when I moved out here. Could you just imagine some idiot like her running out in a field and stopping a farmer with his s##t spreader or his noisy combine and coming out with that BS?

BTW, I don't know about you, but I have all my chainsaws muffler modded. I see you've been here on AS for awhile, but if you haven't done so already, do a little research over on the chainsaw forum have at it. I promise you, you won't be disappointed.


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## Speed (Sep 6, 2013)

First mistake you made was stopping and packing up. As soon as she got in her yuppie machine, saw should have been fired back up. Then give her your goofiest smile with a big wave, right before diving into the next cut. Since you stopped, she now thinks she can intimidate you. 

Does anyone else sense a MO GTG coming soon?


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## Swamp Yankee (Sep 6, 2013)

Trespassing,

If you haven't already, post your property lines. In the event of another confrontation on your property simply and politely ask her to leave and point out to the "lady" she is trespassing and any further violations will result in you contacting the local authorities. Take pics of her and her car with your phone or a digital camera. After the second or third call to the authorities, they will get sick of the BS, and arrest her on multiple charges, preferably in front of her friends while "decompressing". 

Get some red, pink, and yellow surveyor's tape and start marking off "lots". If she shows up again just tell her not to worry, once the developer starts the sub-division you're planning on the XX number of acres adjoining her property she probably won't hear your saws at all.

I doubt there is one since it sounds very rural, but give your sheriff buddy a call and ask about any local or state noise ordinances. Some communities ban use of *** between certain hours of the day. If none exist, it sounds like a dawn to ?? GTG may be in order.

Take Care


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## 3fordasho (Sep 6, 2013)

One saturday morning the neighbor two houses north had a couple guys sawing and pounding nails at 8:30am.

Neighbor lady one house north comes out (was outside drinking and making noise herself the night before)
and #####es at the workers about the noise.

They calmly told her it was 8:30 am and they could make all the noise they needed to complete the project, and then suggested that she go "pound sand"


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## c5rulz (Sep 6, 2013)

It's always the best policy to get along with the neighbors until they cross the line on what is reasonable.

This is real close to crossing that line.

I would let this cool a bit, then diplomatically ask them if they want to discuss this further. Make initial contact via telephone and set up meeting over a beer in afternoon, or coffee in themorning. If they decline, then tell them to pound sand and start promptly at 8am diligently.


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## mainewoods (Sep 6, 2013)

You can not, and will not ever reason with a condescending, arrogant snob like her. You have a long unpleasant battle ahead of you I'm afraid. Your shooting range- a few smashed bottles on the rocks and some errant fireworks might convince her to re-think her choice of location.


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## hdp (Sep 6, 2013)

put a chicken coop and 6 hogs in a lot as close as you can to her, the tell her to #### off


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## hdp (Sep 6, 2013)

and some guineeas


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## philoshop (Sep 6, 2013)

c5rulz said:


> It's always the best policy to get along with the neighbors until they cross the line on what is reasonable.
> 
> This is real close to crossing that line.
> 
> I would let this cool a bit, then diplomatically ask them if they want to discuss this further. Make initial contact via telephone and set up meeting over a beer in afternoon, or coffee in themorning. If they decline, then tell them to pound sand and start promptly at 8am diligently.



Maybe invite your Sheriff buddy to join this meet-n-greet. Informally of course.
There is no excuse for this woman's lack of manners, but you might consider giving her a second chance to make a first impression. It could just be she's a little rattled from the construction process, which can be very stressful. Not trying to defend her at all, just sayin'.


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 6, 2013)

Some people are just idiots. My grandparents live on the 50 acre farm my grandpa was born and raised on and my grandpa had a new house built and continued to farm the land. He had some cows,pigs,horses,etc..and a developer bought all the land around him but my grandpa refused to sell his property(even went to court and won)so they built the subdivision around him. All the yuppies moving into the $500k houses complained about the smell of manure and whatever else they could complain about. This resulted in more court for my grandparents and in court the yuppies told my grandpa "if you want to have a farm move to the country" so Grandpa fired back with "listen you sums-a-b*****s when i was born on this farm 72 years ago it WAS the country. The judge slammed down the gavel and said case dismissed. Grandpas last word leaving court were "i got cows to milk and manure to spread.


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## FLHX Storm (Sep 6, 2013)

Tell her straight out to kiss your butt, you were there fist, have more property than her and she can go have her way with herself. I bet her ole man is a girlyboy to top it all off! :msp_scared: 

[video=youtube;tJixs2FoZ_Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJixs2FoZ_Y[/video]


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## Festus (Sep 6, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Tell her straight out to kiss your butt, you were there fist, have more property than her and she can go have her way with herself. I bet her ole man is a girlyboy to top it all off! :msp_scared:
> 
> [video=youtube;tJixs2FoZ_Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJixs2FoZ_Y[/video]



I find most of today's country and western music to be sickeningly commercial and cheezy, but that song just nails it.

I don't think hardly any of today's music is worth a s##t.


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## Walt41 (Sep 6, 2013)

When anyone I don't know approaches any of our work sites I start speaking with a strong hair lip and suddenly develop itches below the Mason-####son line, usually only saying "I no understand" and "my doggie died"...they are usually frustrated and gone within a minute or two.


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## stihl sawing (Sep 6, 2013)

I doubt very seriously you're going to reason with her, I'd just continue life as normal. I would not go out of my way to make her miserable, but next time she came over spouting off, then it's time to tell her that this is my land, don't like it...Move. then go back to what you were doing. If you are out of city limits and no laws regarding noise, then whats she gonna do. move or tolerate it.


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## rarefish383 (Sep 6, 2013)

I have an acre and a third in a used to be country neighborhood. My wonderful next door neighbor for the past 27 years just moved. New neighbors just moved in, from Connecticut. He was tearing down the wheel chair ramp John needed to get in the house, and was all dirty and sweaty. His wife was looking at all the projects to do. We waved over the fence and said "Hi". They offered a beer as we talked man tools and stump grinders and fixing up their new house. They invited us in to see all the work they had done so far, and FOX NEWS was on the big screen. I didn't know they had Fox in Connecticut? Then she pointed to the Tea Party flag on the deck. Thank you Lord, I think I have new GOOD neighbors. The only fault I have found is Wally drinks light beer. In a couple weeks I'm gonna turn him onto my favorite "Stoudts Octoberfest", and go from there, Joe.


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## slowp (Sep 6, 2013)

Maybe we need an I hate my neighbor section.

Nah, don't try to get along with your neighbor. Rile them up even more. I mean, you really need to annoy somebody even more. Somebody who you might need to rely on in the future should you get hurt or something. 

It's called COMPROMISE people. Now, if you were a real man, you'd forget your inviting the good ol'boys out to shoot, and actually maybe try to cooperate and have a quiet weekend. Listen to your wife. She's got the right idea. 

By the way, around here, it is usually the folks who just moved here from the city who are pompous idiots and constantly make noise. Those of us who have been raised in the sticks, appreciate the quiet and don't push it till all hours, any day of the week. We have jobs and many work in noisy occupations. Yes, there is shooting and saws but not every day, not all hours. 

Shame on you and others for planning on ratcheting up a mild conflict. That's how some little disagreements end up in a murder (war in the case of big countries) and prison. Or, for a milder conflict, lawyers fees for both of you.


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## Festus (Sep 6, 2013)

Nobody is suggesting breaking any laws, and it is very unlikely a person like this will ever be a friend.

Anybody notice that the idea of compromise is always nothing short of totally pandering the opposite view?

The squeaky wheel always gets the oil. I for one have had it with self centered morons who think it's their duty to endow us dumb uneducated peasants with their brand of ideals.

If you're not doing anything wrong, by reasonable standards, screw it, just do it.


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## captjack (Sep 6, 2013)

This stuff happens a lot around my way - people buy an acre next to a 500 acre farm and get all up set during planting, harvest and hunting season. real estate agents have to disclose that people are buying property next to a farm - people are so stupid anymore -but thank god the govt is here to keep us from making mistakes (sarcasm)


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## FLHX Storm (Sep 6, 2013)

The way I see it is if city folk move to the country, then they need to adapt! Not us adapt to them! If they really wanted peace an solitude, then they should have built on the other end of their property or for that matter right smack in the middle removing only an amount of trees to put their shack. It's not hard to get a basic view from above these days, just use Google Maps and it will show the area. In satellite mode it shows how the roads and the trees, in map mode it usually shows the property lines. (not that they are accurate) but it would give them an idea of where they are building. Then coming out and looking at everything should have given them the idea that perhaps it would not be advisable to build right next to your property. (especially if she could hear banjo playing in the distance ......... think the movie "Deliverance") 

The thing is, if someone comes onto my property acting like a raging bull like this lady has, I can assure you I will take a stand. Now if that lady would come over with a case of beer and want to share, well, I'd be thinking that just might be the start of having a good neighbor. At least they're attempting to get off on the right foot. 

To me the idea of a dawn firewood get together sounds great and the same for a late night shooting match. The city folk need to learn their place, either adapt or go back to the city where they belong. 

There is no compromise when only one benefits!


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

slowp said:


> Maybe we need an I hate my neighbor section.
> 
> Nah, don't try to get along with your neighbor. Rile them up even more. I mean, you really need to annoy somebody even more. Somebody who you might need to rely on in the future should you get hurt or something.
> 
> ...



Great idea. I'll just ask the woman to make a list of the things she will allow me to do and make a schedule of times I'm allowed to do them.
I'll quit my job so I can be at home during the week and get the noisy stuff done when she's not around. 
I'll makes sure we have everything we need for the weekend before Friday so we can stay home and not drive on our road.
If she's going to be out for an entire week, I'll take my family to a Motel and stay there until she goes home.
Yeah, compromise, good idea.

If the woman had approached me in a civil manner and explained the problem she was having with the noise, I would have been happy to listen. That's not how it went down. She demanded that I stop what I was doing. She is of the belief that her need of quiet is more important than my need of heat. Bad assumption on her part.
Coming to my home and telling me what I can and can't do is not going to work. Everything I do is legal. There are no noise ordinances, there are no dust ordinances. I cut wood to keep my family warm in the winter. Unless someone offers to heat my home, that's not going to change.

I don't invite confrontation but I'm not going to back away from it when I'm right. Some self righteous, self absorbed witch with delusions of grandeur is not going to dictate how I live my life.

The shooting and cutting will commence as planned.


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

mainewoods said:


> You can not, and will not ever reason with a condescending, arrogant snob like her. You have a long unpleasant battle ahead of you I'm afraid. Your shooting range- a few smashed bottles on the rocks and some errant fireworks might convince her to re-think her choice of location.



Although I like your ideas, the last thing I want to do is give her any reason for legal recourse. This is a battle that will be fought strictly within legal boundaries.


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## stihl sawing (Sep 6, 2013)

Do you live on a dirt road? If so I can't believe she's stupid enough to think that you can drive on it without dust.


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## Festus (Sep 6, 2013)

I hope everyone who reads the sentence about "shooting" in your last post, reads the context of it from your first post.


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## aarolar (Sep 6, 2013)

I can't believe you packed up and quit, I would have shrugged my shoulder and kept sawing. She would have eventually gotten tired of trying to yell over a chainsaw and left.


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> Do you live on a dirt road? If so I can't believe she's stupid enough to think that you can drive on it without dust.



Yep.

Our spring and summer was wet. It's only been the last month that things have dried up and the dust has gotten bad.


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 6, 2013)

captjack said:


> This stuff happens a lot around my way - people buy an acre next to a 500 acre farm and get all up set during planting, harvest and hunting season. real estate agents have to disclose that people are buying property next to a farm - people are so stupid anymore -but thank god the govt is here to keep us from making mistakes (sarcasm)



Our county wrote apamphlet pointing out the facts of life in the country and stressing that the farmer was here first. Not sure but I think local real estate dealers are required to pass it out to prospective buyers.

Harry K


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## Fairbanks Stump (Sep 6, 2013)

my initial reaction was to tell her to go f' herself but I decided to try and reason with her instead, Not one of my better decisions. I tried to explain that I heated with wood and cutting was necessary to keep my house warm. She suggested I get a better job so I could afford electric heat, like the rest of the civilized world. She also suggested that I build a new access to my house because the dust from me driving on my road was creating dust problems for her. At that point I realized that trying to reason with this woman was a lost cause. 
I packed up my saws and headed home. 


Have your lawyer send her a letter with the NEW inflated value for your property and SOLITUDE with a pay up or shut up Clause. or you will be happy to change your hours and hire a crew to get 100 % of your work done during the time when they are at the house and enjoy the solitude when they are not and further tell them to take their hippy dippy tree hugging dumb ass back to California or where ever they spawned their ignorance! 

BIG JON


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## Fred Wright (Sep 6, 2013)

Yeah... there's no reasoning with people who have their minds set that they're right and everyone else is wrong. Similar to a catalyst, they believe they can change everyone around them while they themselves do not change.

Agreed with the suggestion of "No Trespassing" signs. These actually have a legal effect. If she comes on your property again, you have grounds to tell her to leave now or she's in trouble with the lawman.

They have a choice: Adapt to the aspects of rural living or pull up stakes and move on.


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## greendohn (Sep 6, 2013)

"Get off my land and "I have a potty mouth" while you're at it" would've been my response, with an immediate call to the police with a complaint of trespass against her. 
As I was giving her my instructions to git, I would've attempted a picture with my cell phone, documenting her on my property and the look on her face while receiving my instructions.
There aint no playing nice with these kind of people. Who would want to get along with someone who would insult you with the comments of " get a better job,,etc.." ?
What kind of compromise could one reasonably expect to come to with someone like this? 
Even if she approached me with an apology, her comments alone has revealed what kind of person she is and what she really thinks,,to hell with her.


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

Fred Wright said:


> Yeah... there's no reasoning with people who have their minds set that they're right and everyone else is wrong. Similar to a catalyst, they believe they can change everyone around them while they themselves do not change.
> 
> Agreed with the suggestion of "No Trespassing" signs. These actually have a legal effect. If she comes on your property again, you have grounds to tell her to leave now or she's in trouble with the lawman.
> 
> They have a choice: Adapt to the aspects of rural living or pull up stakes and move on.



There is a no trespassing sign on my gate. It's 3' x 5' and states my name, no trespassing and that violators will be prosecuted. I had it made a few years ago. I guess because the gate was open, she thought it didn't apply.


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

Fairbanks Stump said:


> my initial reaction was to tell her to go f' herself but I decided to try and reason with her instead, Not one of my better decisions. I tried to explain that I heated with wood and cutting was necessary to keep my house warm. She suggested I get a better job so I could afford electric heat, like the rest of the civilized world. She also suggested that I build a new access to my house because the dust from me driving on my road was creating dust problems for her. At that point I realized that trying to reason with this woman was a lost cause.
> I packed up my saws and headed home.
> 
> 
> ...



My son is an attorney and since I paid for all of his school, I own him.
I really hate to get lawyers involved, it's always a pain in the butt.


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## brewmonster (Sep 6, 2013)

Speaking as one who has a short fuse and has been at war with neighbors in the past, I urge you to reconsider. Perhaps she approached you in a fit of pique and has been regretting her words ever since. Give her a chance to repent. I think the idea of a beer or coffee summit including your pal the sheriff has a lot of merit. At least it contains the _possibility_ of a peaceful coexistence in the future. Belligerent escalation does not.


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## stihl sawing (Sep 6, 2013)

srb08 said:


> My son is an attorney and since I paid for all of his school, I own him.
> I really hate to get lawyers involved, it's always a pain in the butt.


You ain't gonna need a lawyer, their is nothing she can do, just carry on as you always have.


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## svk (Sep 6, 2013)

What a great thread!

Wish i knew how to make the emoticon of the smiley guy eating popcorn.


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## TeeMan (Sep 6, 2013)

Make sure you have ‘No Trespassing’ signs that are not hand-made; go buy some and post in multiple areas of your road and drive access.

Contact your local authorities to make sure there are no restrictions on noise levels (I doubt there are if you are on 150 acres outside of the city limits).

Set up game cameras in the areas you would expect these people to snoop around when you are not there.

Fire the saw up at 8am instead of 9am. If she comes out again, don’t get carried away or lose your cool or try to reason with her or let her get her opinion in what-so-ever, calmly say she is not allowed on your property, you have hidden video surveillance around all areas of your property (even though you won’t and she does not have to know this), calmly ask her to leave or you will be contacting the law to have them tell her to remove herself from your property. Turn around and dig into the wood with your saw.

Be careful with using firearms just to prove a point that you can shoot on your own land.

Go to bed at night with a big old grin because there’s nothing she can do about it.


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## Whitespider (Sep 6, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> *You ain't gonna need a lawyer, their is nothing she can do, just carry on as you always have.*



That's likely the best solution... "_just carry on as you always have_" and you likely won't need a lawyer. I don't know how it works where you live, and there ain't any noise ordinance in the county I live, but the Iowa code does have a section on "Nuisances". It ain't in the criminal code, it's in the civil code... meaning, if she called and complained, the sheriff may elect to drive by for a look and ask a couple questions, but really, all he can do is tell her to file a petition in civil court (while he giggled, at least our local sheriff would be giggling). If you start doing things you wouldn't normally do (like smashing liquor bottles around)... well, it is possible the civil court would see you as an antagonist.

In any event, you may want to check your county/state ordinances/codes for wording before doing anything "abnormal".
This is how the Iowa code is worded...



> *TITLE XV JUDICIAL BRANCH AND JUDICIAL PROCEDURES
> SUBTITLE 5 SPECIAL ACTIONS
> CHAPTER 657 NUISANCES
> 657.2 What deemed nuisances.
> 6.*Houses of ill fame, kept for the purpose of prostitution and lewdness, gambling houses, places resorted to by persons participating in criminal gang activity prohibited by chapter 723A, or places resorted to by persons using controlled substances, as defined in section 124.101, subsection 5, in violation of law, or houses where drunkenness, quarreling, fighting, or breaches of the peace are carried on or permitted to the disturbance of others.



I don't see how a chainsaw (just like a lawn mower) can be considered a "breach of piece", unless every single time you use it close to their retreat it's at 2:00 AM... but a drunken night shoot may be seen a bit differently. Don't get me wrong, go ahead and have your night shoots (they are a blast) as you always have... just don't add anything, or any times, that would be abnormal (for you).


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## avalancher (Sep 6, 2013)

I gotta agreee with SS on this one, carry on as you normally do, and keep the fussing to a minimum. the minute you start ramping up the activities that agravate the old biddy you are stooping to her level and in the end will just cause yourself more grief and stress. 

We had a neighbor move here from Ohio where he enjoyed a million city and county ordinances to back up his gripes with his neighbors, and for one reason or another ended up here where there are no laws what so ever restricting what a guy can do on your own property. Within two years, we went to war that started with him calling the local sherriffs office on me for my log splitter running after dark in the winter, somewhere around the six pm range. And like a lot of you, I first met his hostility with my own. Since there were no noise ordinances, I had the whole crew over for a cook out and we busted wood till 11pm. He was livid. I have a full scale civil war cannon that I built in high school, and it thundered its way through 40lbs of black powder on New years eve. A solid six hours of firing. He retaliated by glueing my mailbox shut with Gorrilla glue. I handed him one right back by dropping a few roofing nails on his driveway. Like a couple of children, we kept that war on for a solid three years till late one night I came home and him and his wife had slid off the road into the ditch pinning one door against the bank, and he was unable to push his door up on the other side, effectively caging him in.

I considered driving right on by, but I reckon I just didnt have it in me to do that to even my worst enemy, so I dropped a chain over the frame and yarded em out. I expected a prompt "I have a potty mouth" attitude, but was met instead of a lot of grattitude. And you know what? for the first time in several years now, I aint got to worry about the fuzz showing up when yard work goes after dark, and I dont have to be concerned if the latest copy of readers digest is locked behind a glob of Gorrilla glue. 

My point is, I wouldnt make any effort to antagonize the gal by doing things that you normally wouldnt do, all that will create is a war and you can forget about any peace and quiet in your own home once that gets started. If you saw wood during the day, then go right ahead and saw your wood. Let her complain to the local PD, I am sure they will set her straight on the first call that you have every right to do that. Time to think with your head here and not your emotions.


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

brewmonster said:


> Speaking as one who has a short fuse and has been at war with neighbors in the past, I urge you to reconsider. Perhaps she approached you in a fit of pique and has been regretting her words ever since. Give her a chance to repent. I think the idea of a beer or coffee summit including your pal the sheriff has a lot of merit. At least it contains the _possibility_ of a peaceful coexistence in the future. Belligerent escalation does not.



While I embrace the idea of a meeting in the spirit of compromise, I'm not willing to change anything I'm doing. I'm not going to stop driving on my road and I'm not going to move it.
I'm not going to stop cutting wood. I need it for heat and I enjoy the activity. 
I was cutting at 9am that particular day, I normally start earlier. I work during the week and the weekends are my time in the woods.
The way I see it, any compromise would only involve a sacrifice on my part.
I would be willing to limit the shooting at night but I won't agree to avoid it completely and I won't consult her before doing it. We only do this a few times a year anyway.
I'm not going to go out of my way to be antagonistic but I'm not going to alter my life to accommodate her wishes.
All of the families around her heat with wood to some extent and in the next month the cutting and splitting will be all around her, not just me. The fall and winter is when all of us process our wood for next year.
All of the folks around her shoot as well. The ammo shortage has curtailed a lot of it but I'm sure it will resume before long.

Her abusive demeanor pretty much precludes any cooperation from me and I'm sure the rest of the neighbors will feel the same way.
I honestly don't see a mutually agreeable outcome as possible.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 6, 2013)

svk said:


> What a great thread!
> 
> Wish i knew how to make the emoticon of the smiley guy eating popcorn.


 opcorn: 

Fixed it for ya!  

FYI, just click "more" under the list of smilies when you are writing a reply, that brings up a whole bunch of choices for you...

More on point, you were there first, not doing anything wrong or even unreasonable, I say carry on!

BTW, about the idea of having a little powwow with you, her, and the sheriff, I'd make sure he was there in street clothes and just introduced as your buddy, that way if she goes ballistic, he will have a front row seat of what y'all are dealing with.


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 6, 2013)

svk said:


> What a great thread!
> 
> Wish i knew how to make the emoticon of the smiley guy eating popcorn.



: popcorn :
Without spaces


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 6, 2013)

avalancher said:


> I gotta agreee with SS on this one, carry on as you normally do, and keep the fussing to a minimum. the minute you start ramping up the activities that agravate the old biddy you are stooping to her level and in the end will just cause yourself more grief and stress.
> 
> We had a neighbor move here from Ohio where he enjoyed a million city and county ordinances to back up his gripes with his neighbors, and for one reason or another ended up here where there are no laws what so ever restricting what a guy can do on your own property. Within two years, we went to war that started with him calling the local sherriffs office on me for my log splitter running after dark in the winter, somewhere around the six pm range. And like a lot of you, I first met his hostility with my own. Since there were no noise ordinances, I had the whole crew over for a cook out and we busted wood till 11pm. He was livid. I have a full scale civil war cannon that I built in high school, and it thundered its way through 40lbs of black powder on New years eve. A solid six hours of firing. He retaliated by glueing my mailbox shut with Gorrilla glue. I handed him one right back by dropping a few roofing nails on his driveway. Like a couple of children, we kept that war on for a solid three years till late one night I came home and him and his wife had slid off the road into the ditch pinning one door against the bank, and he was unable to push his door up on the other side, effectively caging him in.
> 
> ...




Messing with someones mailbox is a Fedreal offense i would've nailed his a$$ on that one.


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## Whitespider (Sep 6, 2013)

srb08 said:


> *While I embrace the idea of a meeting in the spirit of compromise...*



I wouldn't embrace compromise at all... I live out-in-the-county _because I don't want to compromise on my lifestyle! Period!_
Your new from-the-city neighbor isn't willing to compromise anyway... she's used to living where "rules" are the way of life, where lawyers exploit those rules for whomever is will to pay the most, and believes what she is accustom to applies everywhere. She seriously believes she has a "right" to utter piece and solitude because that's what she thinks she paid for... she's about to have a serious eye-opening experience.

You've lived there how long?? And she's had her retreat for a few weeks/months?? It ain't your place to compromise... she's the one who's intruded into your domain, not the other way around. Your damn right you shouldn't change your lifestyle (but ya' may want to turn your back in her direction when ya' stop to take a pee). She's the newcomer, the one out of her element, the one that's gonna haft'ta adapt or go back where she came from... it really is as simple as that.

Real close to me (walking distance, actually) is sort'a a little rural subdivision-like cluster of 5 homes on the river (Dad has one) the locals refer to as "Midway"... some even consider my place as #6, but i have several acres separating my house and them. Anyway, a few years ago a from-the-city family bought one of those homes with it's suburban size yard by Dad's place... and immediately the "new" guy had the idea he was gonna' be the "boss" of the neighborhood and started laying down "the rules". It was fall, a Saturday morning around 7-7:30, dad had just gotten back from the lake home the day before and I was helping him clean up leaves when this guy comes storming into the yard all red-faced. He lit into us about all the noise our leaf blowers were making, and how it had woke his whole family up, and then preceded to tell us we would be waiting until after breakfast to make such noise from now-on. Dad waited until the guy was all done with his sputtering, and then looked at him and asked, "_Well, what time is breakfast Jeffery?_" The answer we got was, "_We finish breakfast around 9:30 or 10:00._" Dad got this big grin on his face, looked back at the guy and said, "_You'd best get with the program Jeff, out here breakfast is at 5:00... we're drinkin' beer by 10:00."_ Then he started the blower back up and continued like he always had.


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## brewmonster (Sep 6, 2013)

Hey there, srb08, I get why you're upset and I'm sure I would be too, in your situation. But I never said you should sacrifice or even compromise. What I said was "give her a chance to repent." 

After hearing what you said about your neighbors running *** and shooting in the fall, I'll amend my proposal and suggest you schedule your summit after she's had a good taste of all that. Once she's learned the customs of the country she may be more understanding and willing to live and let live.

As for Mr. Whitespider, he is always true to form, what with his underlined and italicized refusal to even consider compromise. Don't ever change, Spidey! I know you won't.


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

Well.......the plot thickens.
My wife just got a call from one of the neighbors who had talked to the woman, Katherine, not Kathy, Katherine in town earlier today. Katherine had explained to the neighbor that last Monday she had to go down and set me straight regarding the loathsome noise I was creating with my saw. She went on to say that as long as she was out here, noise would not be a problem. 
She also told the neighbor that the dust from the roads was very bothersome and would need to be addressed, starting with mine.

I'm headed into town now to pick up fresh fuel for the saws. Maybe I'll pick up a carbide chain, in case I need to cut a Lexus in half.

My BIL is cutting with me tomorrow. I don't want to be alone when the confrontation occurs. If more than one shows up, I don't want it to be my word against three or four, that never ends well.
I'll also be carrying a sidearm.


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## stihl sawing (Sep 6, 2013)

srb08 said:


> Well.......the plot thickens.
> My wife just got a call from one of the neighbors who had talked to the woman, Katherine, not Kathy, Katherine in town earlier today. Katherine had explained to the neighbor that last Monday she had to go down and set me straight regarding the loathsome noise I was creating with my saw. She went on to say that as long as she was out here, noise would not be a problem.
> She also told the neighbor that the dust from the roads was very bothersome and would need to be addressed, starting with mine.
> 
> ...


Probably be better if you had your police officer friend with you. What ever you do don't pull the gun on her. Sounds like it could get nasty.


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## Whitespider (Sep 6, 2013)

Do you normally carry a sidearm when cutting wood on your own property??
Or would this be one of those "abnormal" things I was warning you not to do??

At least keep it totally out'a sight man... I seriously doubt you'll be needing it.


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> Probably be better if you had your police officer friend with you. What ever you do don't pull the gun on her. Sounds like it could get nasty.



Understood. The sidearm can be a two edged sword. Probably better to leave it in the console of the Gator. I'm pretty sure this bunch are all anti gun and the presence of a firearm, even though perfectly legal, could lead to accusations and open up a new can of worms.
I've decided not to do a night shoot, at least for now.


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## svk (Sep 6, 2013)

srb08 said:


> Understood. The sidearm can be a two edged sword. Probably better to leave it in the console of the Gator. I'm pretty sure this bunch are all anti gun and the presence of a firearm, even though perfectly legal, could lead to accusations and open up a new can of worms.
> I've decided not to do a night shoot, at least for now.



Good idea to keep the gun away. 

I once had a confrontation with some morons re trespassing. I had a sidearm in view and they told the sherriff that they felt threatened by my gun (despite each of them having a cased shotgun on their ATV). People will try any angle they can. Good to have a witness. And even better if she again comes on your property to "set you straight".


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## TeeMan (Sep 6, 2013)

srb08 said:


> Understood. The sidearm can be a two edged sword. Probably better to leave it in the console of the Gator. I'm pretty sure this bunch are all anti gun and the presence of a firearm, even though perfectly legal, could lead to accusations and open up a new can of worms.
> I've decided not to do a night shoot, at least for now.



I agree with the previous posts that you should not do anything 'abnormal' like having a night shooting fest...that could be crossing the line of what she sees as a threat to her. Keep cool and continue on your normal activities like you always have.


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## Whitespider (Sep 6, 2013)

Well, if I'm dressed I'm near always armed, so "carrying" would be "normal" for me... she would have seen the thing during the first meeting, so it wouldn't be any surprise during a second. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but a person who carries daily just "wears" a firearm differently than someone who carries occasionally, and I can spot that difference in a second, from a mile away... you can bet a law enforcement officer can also. That's why I was asking if it was "abnormal" behavior for you... even if ya' don't touch it, legal or not, ain't no sense putting up big red flags if she does "make-the-call" and a deputy shows on the scene. In my state, the use of a firearm for intimidation purpose is a serious offense... and if you don't carry daily, just the act of having it on your person when it could be shown you were relatively sure there would be confrontation could be seen as intimidation purpose... even if your hand never touches it.

Seriously man, if you do anything out-of-the-norm (for you)... you are opening yourself up to intensive scrutiny.
If ya' just do exactly as ya' always do, no one can claim differently, and you'll appear to be a guy just going about his own business (which you are).
Stay calm, keep your cool, don't raise your voice... explain to her (or them) that if they have a problem with what you do on your own property they can try legal recourse, and then politely ask them to vacate your private property. If they won't leave and continue to hassle you... use your cell to call the sheriff right in front of them. (Or if they threaten to call the sheriff, just tell them if they don't you will.)

Yeah, I know, that don't sound like me... 'cause it ain't like me... I'd likely grab 'em by the collar and crotch and toss 'em over the fence without ever saying a word (I'd still be calm and cool though). That's me, I've spent a few nights in jail before, I ain't worried about doing it again. Besides, that would be "the-norm" for me... but I'm thinkin' you probably don't want to go to jail.


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## deepsouth (Sep 6, 2013)

I live in suburbia and run saws at times as the ugly it's that won't hand split get noodled and no complaints. 

I actually have a stack to do this weekend. 

And if I got that attitude when cutting on the bush block it would be too bad.... Go jump from me. 

Next time tell her to move her house or pay you $100k? To asphalt or concrete your drive. It's her problem..... Not yours.


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## GeeVee (Sep 6, 2013)

srb08 said:


> Well.......the plot thickens.
> My wife just got a call from one of the neighbors who had talked to the woman, Katherine, not Kathy, Katherine in town earlier today. Katherine had explained to the neighbor that last Monday she had to go down and set me straight regarding the loathsome noise I was creating with my saw. She went on to say that as long as she was out here, noise would not be a problem.
> She also told the neighbor that the dust from the roads was very bothersome and would need to be addressed, starting with mine.
> 
> ...



An opportunity exists....

Invite your other neighbors that heat with wood, hurry quick. even if it costs you some good wood or trees, .

Of course, Kat isn't invited, but welcome to come...


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## FLHX Storm (Sep 6, 2013)

Since she is waging war, arm yourself with a tape recorder or better yet a small video recorder. Digital, not tape. The tape ones are too cumbersome. When you see her coming, turn it on to record the event. That way, if push comes to shove, it's better than a witness. It's all recorded in real time, which reminds me, make sure the time and date stamp are correct. Any time she comes onto the property have it handy. And ALWAYS keep your cool. (especially when recording) A recorder of any kind is the best weapon against trash like this.

I used a recorder against a private investigator. The recorder was placed in my pocket and captured both sides of the conversation and cost him his license after I delivered it to the proper authorities. He was extremely angry about it but left me alone after that.


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## olyman (Sep 6, 2013)

Yesterday, I was talking to one of the other neighbors who told me that this coming weekend, this woman and her husband are having a few other couples out for the weekend to "decompress."
Sounds like a good time for a night shoot. I recently put up lights on my range. 
I think I'll even invite my buddy, the Sheriff, he likes shooting at night.
Early Sat and Sun morning will be the perfect time to finish bucking those logs, if it's nice out, I might cut all day.
.[/QUOTE]

DANG good idears!!!! esp the sheriff at your gun range,,hopefully the mouth next door will show,,along with puke old man,,spout off something really out of line,,and your friend could give them a nice escort straight to the bar motel.....educated idiots.....


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## olyman (Sep 6, 2013)

slowp said:


> Maybe we need an I hate my neighbor section.
> 
> Nah, don't try to get along with your neighbor. Rile them up even more. I mean, you really need to annoy somebody even more. Somebody who you might need to rely on in the future should you get hurt or something.
> 
> ...



compromising with a leftist,,is like pining a tail,on a moving DONKEY...with the same results,,and the same smell.........


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## olyman (Sep 6, 2013)

Anybody notice that the idea of compromise is always nothing short of totally pandering the opposite view?

If you're not doing anything wrong, by reasonable standards, screw it, just do it.[/QUOTE]

and THEIR brand of ideals,,is ALWAYS askew.....and the compromise with them,,as I responded to one,,is their way, or the highway...LEFTISTS, which is what that slime neighbor is,,NEVER move off of their ideal. you always have to move towards them..thats the leftist mentality. screw them and the horse they drag behind,,and smell like...


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## haveawoody (Sep 6, 2013)

Just go about doing what you do and pretend it never happened.
Life is to short to worry about the nuts that fall on the ground.

If the nut falls on you then do something about it, if not then just do what you do and they can do a similar thing.
If it's a problem person then nothing will make a difference, so just don't waste your time in the effort.
If they don't like what you do when you are simply collecting firewood and driving then moving is always an option for them.

IMO act like a hillbilly, smile, nod and just keep doing what you do 
No more no less.


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## olyman (Sep 6, 2013)

srb08 said:


> My son is an attorney and since I paid for all of his school, I own him.
> I really hate to get lawyers involved, it's always a pain in the butt.



maybe so,,but with you raising him,,ill bet hed like a hunk of that arrogant witches arse!!!!!!!!!


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## ppkgmsy (Sep 6, 2013)

I live in rural VT. A couple years ago a new house was being built off a small road near where I live. I would take my little boy to watch the heavy equipment. The guys working would stop and say hello, and would sometimes let my son handle their tools. One day we went to the site and nobody was around. We walked around a bit and then, from out of the house, came a man charging and yellling, "Who are you? What are you doing on my land?" Trying to be a gentleman, I said, "My son likes building sites and we've been watching the progress on your home." His response, "Yea, well, you're trespassing!" 

I looked at my son who was looking at this fool, and I simply said to the guy, "You're not from around here are you?"

Sure enough, he was some rich guy from Chicago building his retirement castle. After his first VT winter he moved away.


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

ppkgmsy said:


> I live in rural VT. A couple years ago a new house was being built off a small road near where I live. I would take my little boy to watch the heavy equipment. The guys working would stop and say hello, and would sometimes let my son handle their tools. One day we went to the site and nobody was around. We walked around a bit and then, from out of the house, came a man charging and yellling, "Who are you? What are you doing on my land?" Trying to be a gentleman, I said, "My son likes building sites and we've been watching the progress on your home." His response, "Yea, well, you're trespassing!"
> 
> I looked at my son who was looking at this fool, and I simply said to the guy, "You're not from around here are you?"
> 
> Sure enough, he was some rich guy from Chicago building his retirement castle. After his first VT winter he moved away.



I have a feeling that's probably going to be the outcome here.
I don't see anyone changing to accommodate Katherine, especially me.


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## Stihlofadeal64 (Sep 6, 2013)

Post the NO Trespassing signs, do your thing and wait. If she comes back the next move is yours. Keep your cool, no body can tell you what to do on your land. Call the cops if she comes down the driveway in full view of the signs. Period.


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## dave_376 (Sep 6, 2013)

Sorry for your neighbor issues. I don't have any great advice for you except make sure whatever you are doing it is legal and at the legal time of day. With the gun tragedies from recent years you can't count on anything, even if you are doing something that is "legal" someone may find a way to get you in trouble. In court a left wing judge may decide to rule on their personal feelings or beliefs rather than following the law and you would have to appeal the decision in a higher court. You can't count on anything. Leave the gun at home.
Living in Ct all my life I am used to people like that. When I was house shopping I checked out the neighbors houses, I ended up picking this house based on one of my neighbors having a F250 and a Dixie flag on his shed. I chose good because I get along with my neighbors quite well, they both heat with wood and shoot in their backyards.


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## shelbythedog (Sep 6, 2013)

I agree with the many people above giving the advice to carry on with your chores and recreation as normal and simply invite Katherine to remove herself from your land if she decides to pay you another visit.

And oh my does this make me appreciate my neighbor. I was invited to cut on his land, and shoot guns on his 100 yard range at any time. Most days when I'm cutting he will come by on his quad to say "hi" and thank me for cleaning up the downed timber on his land, and then invite me to stop by when I'm done for a beer from his fridge. He thinks I'm nuts for burning wood and doing all the work that goes along with it, but I think he's nuts for spending $3000/year on propane. We agree to disagree on that issue and it sure works out well for me.


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## 513yj (Sep 6, 2013)

The thing to do would be to post no trespassing signs on the edge of our property including the entrance to your driveway on both sides and even a couple down the road. I she comes on your property you tell her respectfully (hard to do at times I know) to remove herself or you will be constrained to notify the authorities. Don't talk to her like a billified bill, you have to use long precise words so she won't think you are some dummy she can intimidate because she feels she is better than you. Lots of opinions but the bottom line is,, it is your property and your driveway and since you pay the taxes you have the right to use them. I'd personally not tick em off on purpose (even though it would be fun), but a man has to make hay when the sun is shining especially when it comes to heating your home. I have some really good lines you could use on her but they wouldn't be helpful really. I would like to see her face if you told her something like you would get a better job and use electric like everyone else if her azz hat prezzy hadn't gotten re-elected and failed to create the better jobs he promised, nor dealt properly with the rising energy costs. I work in the lab at the local hospital, go to skool full time and I fire up whenever I have wood to cut using the rules of common courtesy.


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## Festus (Sep 6, 2013)

This is sure fun for us to sit here at our keyboards and conspire as to what we would do and what you should do (I know I sure enjoyed it), but I think nobody suggested just talking with the sheriff yourself. If he's your buddy it should be no big deal, and I'm sure he has more experience with these situations then any of us redneck, armchair wiseguys. He should be able to let you know where you stand, which might help you to relax a little bit, and heck, maybe he'll even have a nice professional chat with her. That would do more to set her straight then poking a stick in the beehive....so to speak. Maybe I'm wrong and it would just start a tit for tat, peeing match between you, her, and local law enforcement, but I would think the sheriff would have a more informed opinion than us. Good luck.


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## philoshop (Sep 6, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> .
> 
> Dad waited until the guy was all done with his sputtering, and then looked at him and asked, "_Well, what time is breakfast Jeffery?_" The answer we got was, "_We finish breakfast around 9:30 or 10:00._" Dad got this big grin on his face, looked back at the guy and said, "_You'd best get with the program Jeff, out here breakfast is at 5:00... we're drinkin' beer by 10:00."_ Then he started the blower back up and continued like he always had.



Laughed so hard I spit beer on my keyboard! Thanks!


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## fubar2 (Sep 6, 2013)

srb08 said:


> I have a feeling that's probably going to be the outcome here.
> I don't see anyone changing to accommodate Katherine, especially me.



Although I don't look for you to tolerate it much longer I'd say Katherine is firmly in charge thus far. You quit cutting the first day she came to visit. You are now on the internet announcing your every and next move and somebody took the time to listen to her spiel when she announced a coming change in the neighborhood.
My take is Katherine 2 possibly 3, SRB 0 at this point in the game.
I ain't lookin to make enemies but facts is facts.


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## Stihlofadeal64 (Sep 6, 2013)

avalancher said:


> I gotta agreee with SS on this one, carry on as you normally do, and keep the fussing to a minimum. the minute you start ramping up the activities that agravate the old biddy you are stooping to her level and in the end will just cause yourself more grief and stress.
> 
> We had a neighbor move here from Ohio where he enjoyed a million city and county ordinances to back up his gripes with his neighbors, and for one reason or another ended up here where there are no laws what so ever restricting what a guy can do on your own property. Within two years, we went to war that started with him calling the local sherriffs office on me for my log splitter running after dark in the winter, somewhere around the six pm range. And like a lot of you, I first met his hostility with my own. Since there were no noise ordinances, I had the whole crew over for a cook out and we busted wood till 11pm. He was livid. I have a full scale civil war cannon that I built in high school, and it thundered its way through 40lbs of black powder on New years eve. A solid six hours of firing. He retaliated by glueing my mailbox shut with Gorrilla glue. I handed him one right back by dropping a few roofing nails on his driveway. Like a couple of children, we kept that war on for a solid three years till late one night I came home and him and his wife had slid off the road into the ditch pinning one door against the bank, and he was unable to push his door up on the other side, effectively caging him in.
> 
> ...





For a man with a "wild-kitty" in his signature doing rapid fire exercises those are words of wisdom. I'd say your kindness to him in his distress revealed that character wins over attitude any day. Thanks for posting!


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## srb08 (Sep 6, 2013)

fubar2 said:


> Although I don't look for you to tolerate it much longer I'd say Katherine is firmly in charge thus far. You quit cutting the first day she came to visit. You are now on the internet announcing your every and next move and somebody took the time to listen to her spiel when she announced a coming change in the neighborhood.
> My take is Katherine 2 possibly 3, SRB 0 at this point in the game.
> I ain't lookin to make enemies but facts is facts.



Interesting take, please explain the method of scoring?
Katherine is going to get a rude awakening, literally, about 8:30 tomorrow morning. Agreed, the first battle was won when I conceded but that won't happen again. 
When my BIL gets here in the morning, he's going to lock the gate behind him. If she wants to come back down and complain, she's going to have to walk. 
If she calls the sheriff to complain, so what, I'm completely within my rights. She can call all she wants, it'll diminish her credibility. She doesn't live here, or vote here, my neighbors and I do.
When wood cutting starts in earnest, she's going to figure out she made a big mistake by building out here.
Deer season will be another matter altogether. I wonder if orange people sitting in trees make her nervous?
I'm not worried at all, the game isn't over, it's just getting started.


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## Whitespider (Sep 6, 2013)

philoshop said:


> *Laughed so hard I spit beer on my keyboard! Thanks!*



And it's the honest-ta-god-truth man, the honest-ta-god-truth!


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## zogger (Sep 6, 2013)

What? all this practical advice...nonsense!

No imagination!

Here's me, Gomer Pyle voice, heavy..

Gooolllleee! Why shoot heck fire dang ifn you ain't cute as a June bug! New neighbors you say! great! I bet you would like to get to meet all the other neighbors and come to one of our weekly donkey orgies, you'll love it"!

sumthin like that there.....


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## CWME (Sep 6, 2013)

Just lock your gate and get to cutting.


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## BP021 (Sep 6, 2013)

When I encounter ppl like this, I usually will say "Thank you for your concerns & interest in my life, God Bless. I'll be sure to keep you in my prayers" & I carry on. It's amazing how good it works.


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## lone wolf (Sep 6, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Since she is waging war, arm yourself with a tape recorder or better yet a small video recorder. Digital, not tape. The tape ones are too cumbersome. When you see her coming, turn it on to record the event. That way, if push comes to shove, it's better than a witness. It's all recorded in real time, which reminds me, make sure the time and date stamp are correct. Any time she comes onto the property have it handy. And ALWAYS keep your cool. (especially when recording) A recorder of any kind is the best weapon against trash like this.
> 
> I used a recorder against a private investigator. The recorder was placed in my pocket and captured both sides of the conversation and cost him his license after I delivered it to the proper authorities. He was extremely angry about it but left me alone after that.



Good on ya for that one


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## bubba3228 (Sep 6, 2013)

opcorn:


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## sw18x (Sep 6, 2013)

I didn't have time to read all the other replies so sorry if it was already mentioned, but the coup de grace will be when you nail her for trespassing. State law here says if you're warned to stay off the property and you return, it's trespassing. If you have to overcome any obstacle to enter the property (i.e. a fence), it becomes criminal trespass. That's one mugshot I'd love to see, if you're lucky maybe your buddy the sheriff could oblige us.


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## 513yj (Sep 6, 2013)

srb08 said:


> Interesting take, please explain the method of scoring?
> Katherine is going to get a rude awakening, literally, about 8:30 tomorrow morning. Agreed, the first battle was won when I conceded but that won't happen again.
> When my BIL gets here in the morning, he's going to lock the gate behind him. If she wants to come back down and complain, she's going to have to walk.
> If she calls the sheriff to complain, so what, I'm completely within my rights. She can call all she wants, it'll diminish her credibility. She doesn't live here, or vote here, my neighbors and I do.
> ...



I'm with you on the scoring perplexity, but I think you did right by not starting a pizzing match. Cooler heads prevail and it's very hard to make rational decision during an irrational state. Take this like being in the Army, you are not permitted to fire until fired upon. And since you have been fired upon you now go out there and exercise your RIGHT to use YOUR PROPERTY as you see fit in order to heat your home. If you are a pot stirring kind of guy, tonight you remove the spark arrestor from your muffler to make sure they catch the upper rpm noise just fine


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## memory (Sep 6, 2013)

If that happened here, I don't know what I would do or say. How can these people think they can tell you what to do?

We live on a dairy farm and have been pretty fortunate so far but I do believe that will change. We have one subdivision going in just up the road, already multiple houses built and possibly two more sometime in the future. They are getting closer and closer all the time. I just wonder how long before those people stop in and start complaining about the smell, smoke from burning wood or burn piles, or whatever else. 

Just keep cutting wood, you are doing nothing wrong. It is one thing if you are cutting wood at 3a.m. but at 9a.m. It is amazing that you kept your cool even with the comment about using electric heat like the rest of the civilized world. I think I would have went off on her at that moment. Normally I am a quite person and it takes alot to get me worked up but that would have for sure.


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## tooold (Sep 6, 2013)

I have been living near a "interesting" neighbor now for 20 years. They live in a WHOLE different world than the other 4 neighbors do. The 4 neighbors all come from very different backgrounds but we all get along and help each other out. This one goofy one has shown his rage and rants to all of us and at the town meetings when he is not getting what he wants. Sometimes it is hard to not stir the pot, but, I've chose to just ignore him for the most part and it allows me to sleep better at night. Yes, it would be nice if I could choose all my neighbors, BUT, 1 out of 4 is better than some have it.


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## John R (Sep 6, 2013)

Two words: *YOUR TRESSPASSING!*


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## fubar2 (Sep 6, 2013)

srb08 said:


> Interesting take, please explain the method of scoring?
> Katherine is going to get a rude awakening, literally, about 8:30 tomorrow morning. Agreed, the first battle was won when I conceded but that won't happen again.
> When my BIL gets here in the morning, he's going to lock the gate behind him. If she wants to come back down and complain, she's going to have to walk.
> If she calls the sheriff to complain, so what, I'm completely within my rights. She can call all she wants, it'll diminish her credibility. She doesn't live here, or vote here, my neighbors and I do.
> ...



She got ya clean on the first encounter=1 point. I was torn on point number 2, between 1/2 point or full point but at the time I had forgotten she also got away with belittling you on your job and being able to afford to buy heat but she did rattle you enough to talk about it with strangers. Then she had the gall to go to town and crow about it. I figured one full point would do for the two offenses because in old woman speak it means a lot. 
Now that I remember the belittlement if it wasn't an official score I would go back and give her an additional point for that alone. Looking forward to you coming back tomorrow with a full report on how you drove her to insanity. It is an unbiased scoring system, but I'm rooting for you.


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## cantoo (Sep 6, 2013)

Make your gate an automatic locking one, car drives in and it closes behind it. No one should be driving past No Trespassing signs.


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## stihly dan (Sep 6, 2013)

Just un zip and pee on her shoes. Turn around and continue cutting, no words said.


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## 513yj (Sep 6, 2013)

stihly dan said:


> Just un zip and pee on her shoes. Turn around and continue cutting, no words said.



Dang would that be funny, but the guy would probably end up on the sex offender list for indecent exposure. But depending on the woman, she might not know what he was holding on to since it's been decades since she seen one up close.


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## Johnny Yooper (Sep 6, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> I wouldn't embrace compromise at all... I live out-in-the-county _because I don't want to compromise on my lifestyle! Period!_
> Your new from-the-city neighbor isn't willing to compromise anyway... she's used to living where "rules" are the way of life, where lawyers exploit those rules for whomever is will to pay the most, and believes what she is accustom to applies everywhere. She seriously believes she has a "right" to utter piece and solitude because that's what she thinks she paid for... she's about to have a serious eye-opening experience.
> 
> You've lived there how long?? And she's had her retreat for a few weeks/months?? It ain't your place to compromise... she's the one who's intruded into your domain, not the other way around. Your damn right you shouldn't change your lifestyle (but ya' may want to turn your back in her direction when ya' stop to take a pee). She's the newcomer, the one out of her element, the one that's gonna haft'ta adapt or go back where she came from... it really is as simple as that.
> ...



God Bless your dad!


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## 513yj (Sep 7, 2013)

Johnny Yooper said:


> .



Alright, what is the Yooper part of your sig being as it says from central dairyland? Did you transplant over there from U.P. here?


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## Johnny Yooper (Sep 7, 2013)

513yj said:


> Alright, what is the Yooper part of your sig being as it says from central dairyland? Did you transplant over there from U.P. here?



right on. Now living in the tropics (northern Wis)  You can take the boy from the U.P., but you can't take the U.P. from the boy.


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## griffonks (Sep 7, 2013)

I had a neighbor pull a gun on me once. I was resetting a cattle gate that his fire mitigation dude had broken. They rolled a log down a sidehill and took out the gate post. I had hauled in a RR tie, dug out a 4 foot deep hole in the decomposed granite and I was mixing concrete to ser the post.

I had never seen him before and he was screaming and yelling that I was trespassing with a revolver in his hand. His wife was behind him.

I looked him in the eye and said I was fixing fence that his crew broke. He denied it, and I pointed up the hill at the fresh stump, and then at the Ponderosa rounds laying all over.

The wind blew out of his sail, his wife looked at him like he was a bug and it was over.

We got along after that. I never liked him, but I was welcome to stop at his place when I was hunting for my Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. The dog would chase Blue Grouse all over Sugarloaf Mountain.

You see it worked out because I stood my ground and acted rational in front of his hysterics.

Be cool old son.


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## Steve NW WI (Sep 7, 2013)

Y'all sure have a lot of neighbor problems.

If I don't have any that are a problem, does that mean that I'm the problem in the neighborhood?


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## brenndatomu (Sep 7, 2013)

Steve NW WI said:


> Y'all sure have a lot of neighbor problems.
> 
> If I don't have any that are a problem, does that mean that I'm the problem in the neighborhood?



Nah, it's just that your reputation precedes you...it's that first line there, right under your user name...:hmm3grin2orange:


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## brenndatomu (Sep 7, 2013)

sw18x said:


> I didn't have time to read all the other replies so sorry if it was already mentioned, but the coup de grace will be when you nail her for trespassing. State law here says if you're warned to stay off the property and you return, it's trespassing. If you have to overcome any obstacle to enter the property (i.e. a fence), it becomes criminal trespass. That's one mugshot I'd love to see, if you're lucky maybe your buddy the sheriff could oblige us.



That brings up a _good_ point, all these "sucky neighbor" threads and I don't ever recall seein any mugshots?!
I think we need some mugshots!


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## Cheesecutter (Sep 7, 2013)

I grew up on a farm where all the neighbors were like family or were family and usually got along well. As kids we just cut across the fields to fish or hunt. One of the shortcuts I took to my uncles land got bought by one of those jackass types. I was 13 cutting across as always when this guy shot the tree above me and ordered me to turn around ,get out and stay out. I told my parents and they told me it was his land and that he had also closed the snowmobile trail through his land also. Fast forward a few years my brother was deer hunting with our cousins whose land surrounded this guys land. They had permission to cut through, but this jackwad shot the tree over my brothers head and ordered him to go back and stay out but the rest could pass through. This neighborhood prick is my own brother. Sadly this is true.


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## srb08 (Sep 7, 2013)

The saws are in the Gator and my BIL will be here shortly. 
It's nice and cool this morning, good weather for cutting.


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## Timster2 (Sep 7, 2013)

I think some carefully place no trespassing signs, where she can see them every time she goes to her property, will annoy her to no end. She will come to decompress and be visually assaulted by the signs before she even gets to the house. The signs will serve two purposes, letting her know not to trespass and providing a visual reminder it was her that caused the eye sore.:msp_rolleyes:


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## lone wolf (Sep 7, 2013)

srb08 said:


> The saws are in the Gator and my BIL will be here shortly.
> It's nice and cool this morning, good weather for cutting.



Get pics:msp_tongue:


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## peeworm (Sep 7, 2013)

Thia was a good read and im waiting on the outcome to the days cutting. opcorn:


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## artbaldoni (Sep 7, 2013)

I live in the boonies. My neighbor is a logger and sells firewood. Every Saturday he starts cutting and splitting around daybreak. Another neighbor is Amish, his diesel engine runs at all hours to power an air compressor to run all his household and shop equipment. It has no muffler. Woke me up at 0400 today. It is what it is. I will deal with it. I will not, however do the same thing. I won't make noise until a "decent hour" around 0800 at home. 

Be considerate, don't go out of your way to make noise, but continue to live your life as normal. If life as normal means firing up the *** at 0500 that may not be considerate to others. Remember The Golden Rule; you can't go wrong! Just because someone is is not considerate of you does not mean you should lower yourself to their level. Always take the high road.

I'm heading out to cut right now. I waited because I will be cutting near someone's house today. If I'm cutting in an isolated place I will start at first light. It's not hard.

Happy cutting! I hope your neighbor realizes you are being considerate by not cutting at 0500!


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## Whitespider (Sep 7, 2013)

513yj said:


> *Cooler heads prevail and it's very hard to make rational decision during an irrational state.*



If ever there was an indisputable statement... that one is as close as it gets!

I remember my first physical (fist fight) confrontation (7, maybe 8 years old) and I got my butt kicked... dad stood and watched the whole thing from across the road. As mom was cleaning me up dad asked if I'd learned anything... and I sputtered some sort of angry words through the tears.

Dad said, "_Naw... your mistake was ya' got pizzed-off, lost your head, and forgot to keep breathing._"
All I could do was blink as that statement slapped me.

I may not have learned that lesson _*as*_ my butt was getting kicked... but I ain't ever forgot what dad said that day.


addendum;
Sometimes confrontation (of some sort, not necessarily physical) is unavoidable... it-is-what-it-is. Running from it just delays the inevitable, ya' can't hide from it. The best you can do is suppress your emotions (especially anger), keep breathing, think, watch for the opening... and when you see it, go for the knock-out. If the other guy (person) is pizzed-off, that opening will present itself rather quickly.


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## slowp (Sep 7, 2013)

Just out of curiosity, is this all right? It is all men.

My area is a timber area. Many men are loggers. Now, logging these days requires getting up in the wee hours of the morning, sometimes 2AM and always before 5AM because most jobs are a bit of a drive, and work starts at the butt crack of dawn. 

One yarder engineer has the policy of going to bed, and ANYTHING that wakes him up gets shot. That's kind of the opposite of your problem. 
But because he is a man, is his way OK?


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## mikey517 (Sep 7, 2013)

Waiting for the next episode to be posted....

This is almost as exciting as waiting for "Breaking Bad" or "Dexter"..


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## FLHX Storm (Sep 7, 2013)

A mans way is always okay, but it isn't always necessarily right. In this context "man" means both men and women.

After all, we are only human and in being human it also means we are not infallible.


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## 513yj (Sep 7, 2013)

Caint wait to hear if that lady comes back spouting off at the mouth.


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## zogger (Sep 7, 2013)

slowp said:


> Just out of curiosity, is this all right? It is all men.
> 
> My area is a timber area. Many men are loggers. Now, logging these days requires getting up in the wee hours of the morning, sometimes 2AM and always before 5AM because most jobs are a bit of a drive, and work starts at the butt crack of dawn.
> 
> ...



That is ridiculous. You are saying this guy would actually murder someone if he accidently got awoken? 

Don't worry, not moving to, or even ever visiting your area. People go on and on about southern rednecks (I am neither a redneck nor a born here southerner, but have lived here long enough to know how the culture is), if the PNW guys are like that, shoot someone for waking them up, and ya'all and the local heat are Ok with that and people will work with him, forget it. Dude sounds like a waste of..just a waste,. not someone I would associate with socially or professionally. I wouldn't care how good a "yarder" he is. If he is a thug, same as an inner city ghetto thug, a wasted human who should be shunned by all around him until he gets the point. Dude can't afford 50 cent earplugs? Oh ya, that's not "macho" to wear earplugs.

No one around here gives a crap when you run an engine or go shooting outside. Even city people who move into the country. Takes em about a week or so to get with the program and adapt. I am sure there are exceptions, but I haven't run into any yet.


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## Hddnis (Sep 7, 2013)

Zogger, slowp is just stirring the pot, making straw men and poking them full of holes.:msp_wink:





Mr. HE


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## slowp (Sep 7, 2013)

513yj said:


> Caint wait to hear if that lady comes back spouting off at the mouth.



Yes. Just think, she is much more tacky than the OP, who is spouting off on the internet!



Hddnis said:


> Zogger, slowp is just stirring the pot, making straw men and poking them full of holes.:msp_wink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nope. Just pointing out that there is another alternative to stupidity and stubborness. I don't know the OP. Why should I take his side of the story as gospel? I'm not going to affirm stupidity. He's just going to ramp up a little, meaningless neighborhood dispute into something he may regret. 

For all you manly "I live in the country" folks. Our population is growing. You are going to have to get along--play well with others or you will live a bitter life. I pity people who are so boring that they have to start neighborhood feuds and boast about it. That's all.


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## olyman (Sep 7, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> A mans way is always okay, but it isn't always necessarily right. In this context "man" means both men and women.
> 
> After all, we are only human and in being human it also means we are not infallible.



and you,,as a woman,,,not just a female, as per your comments,,your opinion has value on this forum...lots....


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## olyman (Sep 7, 2013)

Hddnis said:


> Zogger, slowp is just stirring the pot, making straw men and poking them full of holes.:msp_wink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## 513yj (Sep 7, 2013)

slowp said:


> Yes. Just think, she is much more tacky than the OP, who is spouting off on the internet!



I'm not sure where you are goin with this, but if you read what I posted before you would see that I think he did right by not spouting off at the lady. Getting on here and venting is a lot better than cussing out someone(even though she was totally in the wrong and trespassing) and I for one am curious to see if she comes back telling the property owner what to do on his property. Maybe she is a gubment worker and feels she has that right to do so, but last time I checked we still have some of our rights and he *can* and I hope *will* continue to saw on his property. The day some Dub-T comes on my property and tells me to stop sawing is the day I call the police and report a trespasser. This should be a safe place to vent and get advice and support from other woodcutters both men and women before someone makes a rash decision. Granted there was a lot of things posted that were saying to do this and that to pizz the lady off but I'm sure it was mostly free entertainment by the posters.


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## Walt41 (Sep 7, 2013)

I say just go about your business like you always have, it is too late to do much else without being the "bad guy" in this situation. I only have one close neighbor and when I purchased my acreage he came over to introduce himself and explain that he was getting ready to build a shop that was too close to the lot line and he needed a variance, I explained to him that my policy was to not get involved in other peoples business and I expected the same, I told him that he could build anything he wanted and I had no problem with it...just don't cross the line or I will move it with the dozer, he understood I was not kidding and for four years there has been no issues until last week when the guy that is logging his property strayed over the line and got about half a dozen of my maples, I calmly approached him and let him know what happened and that I saw it as an honest mistake and he understood that it could not happen again. I also made sure I remarked that side of my property so the border was clear.


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## Steve NW WI (Sep 7, 2013)

slowp said:


> For all you manly "I live in the country" folks. Our population is growing. You are going to have to get along--play well with others or you will live a bitter life. I pity people who are so boring that they have to start neighborhood feuds and boast about it. That's all.



Yup, but like all the immigrants, they need to learn to adapt to our culture, not us to theirs. New arrivals, whether they are from the big city, or half a world away, would do well to respect the local customs, which were presumably what drew them to an area in the first place.

If I were to ever move to downtown Big City, I wouldn't expect to be able to do much of what I do here. I also am smart enough to realize that early morning traffic and 3AM "nightlife" are things that happen in tar-town, and I need to live with it. Just the same as a new neighbor here should expect to hear equipment running shortly after dawn, the occasional tractor induced traffic jam, and seeing a whitetail buck sticking out of the back of a pickup come November.

Getting along goes both ways, and just like merging onto a highway, the person already there has the "right of way."


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## srb08 (Sep 7, 2013)

Well.........there were plenty of fireworks but most of them didn't involve me. 
Last evening, a bunch of the local kids were out on dirt bikes and four wheelers. That was the first call to the Sheriff. The kids were on private property so there was nothing illegal about it.
This morning, one of the other neighbors must have decided it was a good morning for cutting as well. He started around 7am. The deputy who showed up this morning apparently told Katherine, again, that everything that was going on was perfectly legal. Just about the time the deputy was leaving, my BIL and I fired up the saws. 
The deputy walked down to where we were cutting to explain what was going on. I told him about my encounter last Monday. He said I should have told her to get off of my property and gone back to cutting, Seems like I've heard that before.
The BIL and I cut until about 11:00 and came back to the house. About noon, one of the neighbors showed up to fill me in on the rest of the festivities.
Apparently when the deputy got back from talking with me and told Katherine that he wasn't going to do anything, she came unspooled. From what the neighbor related, she said a lot of bad words and referred to the deputy and the sheriff's department as nothing more than a bunch of Barney Fife's. 
She apparently was pretty close to going to jail.
So................I think the drama is over. 
She's powerless to affect change and has pissed off the sheriffs department.
All in all, a pretty good morning and I got a bunch of wood cut, I'll finish up tomorrow morning.

This ended up being the perfect storm. Last night was only the second time this year that the kids on dirt bikes have ridden out here. The other neighbor cutting this morning was unusual as well, he normally works weekends and cuts during the week. 
I think it was divine intervention.


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## 513yj (Sep 7, 2013)

srb08 said:


> Well.........there were plenty of fireworks but most of them didn't involve me.
> Last evening, a bunch of the local kids were out on dirt bikes and four wheelers. That was the first call to the Sheriff. The kids were on private property so there was nothing illegal about it.
> This morning, one of the other neighbors must have decided it was a good morning for cutting as well. He started around 7am. The deputy who showed up this morning apparently told Katherine, again, that everything that was going on was perfectly legal. Just about the time the deputy was leaving, my BIL and I fired up the saws.
> The deputy walked down to where we were cutting to explain what was going on. I told him about my encounter last Monday. He said I should have told her to get off of my property and gone back to cutting, Seems like I've heard that before.
> ...



Yet another happy ending


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## John R (Sep 7, 2013)

Now that she understands the trespass law, next time she gets on your property, have her arrested.


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## H-Ranch (Sep 7, 2013)

Looks like you won't be having drinks with the new neighbors anytime soon if that's the way they endear themselves to their new environment. Good for you that you were not the only confrontation she created - sounds to me like she's mad at the world. Hopefully she understands the ground rules and her boundaries now.



srb08 said:


> So................I think the drama is over.


The only drama left on this thread is to wait until the troll comes back to tell you what she thinks you did wrong as a knuckle-dragging caveMAN.


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## Festus (Sep 7, 2013)

HAPPY!!!!HAPPY!!!HAPPY!!!


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## mitch95100 (Sep 7, 2013)

We own a farm that is approx. 300 acres, we have signs posted that say- (Notice: Private Property Active Shooting Range Not Responsible For Accidents)

Mark your lines. what your doing isn't illegal. my guess is to just get used to it. More of those idiots will migrate out into our territory and all will find that their Iphone and Keurig machines don't work so well out on our turf, Most will tuck tail and run. 
\


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## mikey517 (Sep 7, 2013)

Hey, if she puts her place on the market, let me know. Actually sounds like the perfect neighborhood!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## srb08 (Sep 7, 2013)

H-Ranch said:


> Looks like you won't be having drinks with the new neighbors anytime soon if that's the way they endear themselves to their new environment. Good for you that you were not the only confrontation she created - sounds to me like she's mad at the world. Hopefully she understands the ground rules and her boundaries now.
> 
> 
> The only drama left on this thread is to wait until the troll comes back to tell you what she thinks you did wrong as a knuckle-dragging caveMAN.



Yep, I'm waiting for her to wade back in.
I always welcome constructive criticism.


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## lone wolf (Sep 7, 2013)

She sounds just like my old neighbor that moved!:msp_tongue:


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## philoshop (Sep 7, 2013)

Glad it worked out for you today. 
The law is on your side, so you can laugh at her during her future tantrums. She may be a middle-aged woman on the outside, but on the inside she's the cranky two year old brat in the checkout line at the grocery store that screams and cries because she can't have what she wants. Hope she cries herself to sleep tonight without dinner.


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## srb08 (Sep 7, 2013)

lone wolf said:


> She sounds just like my old neighbor that moved!:msp_tongue:



Would you like her back?


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## Dogsout (Sep 7, 2013)

philoshop said:


> She may be a middle-aged woman on the outside, but on the inside she's the cranky two year old brat in the checkout line at the grocery store that screams and cries because she can't have what she wants.



Been my experience that the little brat screaming at the check out line usually gets what she wants because the parent can't say no and stick to it. Hope you have better luck with unruly neighbor.


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## Festus (Sep 7, 2013)

You know what would be freaking hilarious????

Watching the look on her face as she reads this thread, post, by post.:msp_biggrin:


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## Hddnis (Sep 7, 2013)

slowp said:


> Yes. Just think, she is much more tacky than the OP, who is spouting off on the internet!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I kind of think of threads like this as similar to BS'ing around the campfire or the table at a GTG. Sure some think it is more and some take it too far in real life, but that will always be, regardless of who says what.

As to OP being in the right or not, well, like you said we only have his side. To me though it sure sounds like unless he's just flat out lying about it all he's in the right, and has refrained from escalating it as far as he legally could have.

Now, as to having to learn to get along with others and there being more people all the time and whatnot...I'll run out of years long before we run out of land.



Mr. HE


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 7, 2013)

Couldn't have worked out any better if you had orchestrated it. And your hands are clean, it was an Act of God.

We have an extremely wealthy Hollywood producer
Reverge Anselmo - IMDb
who decided to buy up a large chunk of prime real estate, plant vineyards, build a winery and a snooty, your kind aren't welcome here, restaurant. I hear the food is great, unfortunately, I can't meet the dress code (wouldn't want to).

Doesn't want to be associated with the redneck, hillbilly reputation of Shingletown, so he tried to get the Post Office to give him an official Inwood address. No dice.

Built a "private chapel" for "private mass" without bothering to get permits. First thing that happened was the county red-tagged him. Held a big ralley, with guest speaker Ann Coulter and Tea Party support, to protest this violation of his religious freedom and property rights. First use of his "private chapel" was it was hired out for a wedding. Sued the county and lost. Court said that religious freedom does not exempt you from compliance with building codes and regs.

Flying his helicopter WAY below the minimum altitude (eye level to a hillside home) lost him his ticket to fly.

Private security were stopping people on the public road and interrogating (that seems to have stopped, was probably informed of criminal consequences). Now he's put security cameras along several miles of public road and has drone surveillance on his property.

Contrary to popular opinion, not all of the loons are on the left.


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## zogger (Sep 7, 2013)

MrWhoopee said:


> Couldn't have worked out any better if you had orchestrated it. And your hands are clean, it was an Act of God.
> 
> We have an extremely wealthy Hollywood producer
> Reverge Anselmo - IMDb
> ...



Private security on a public road, stopping people?? 

Man, they are lucky..real lucky


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## Speed (Sep 7, 2013)

zogger said:


> Private security on a public road, stopping people??
> Y
> Man, they are lucky..real lucky



I cant even imagine how that conversation would play out if they happened to stop my smart### and started asking stupid questions.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## srb08 (Sep 7, 2013)

zogger said:


> Private security on a public road, stopping people??
> 
> Man, they are lucky..real lucky



Kinda what I thought.


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 7, 2013)

zogger said:


> Private security on a public road, stopping people??
> 
> Man, they are lucky..real lucky



Yes, lots of armed people up here. And they sometimes shoot. 
Met this guy for the first time on Tuesday when I was cutting wood along the highway.

Shingletown Man Accused of Shooting Neighbor Has Criminal History | Local News - Home

55 guns confiscated in DOJ raid in Shingletown | Local News - Home

He didn't introduce himself at first, took me a while to figure it out. I may have to start carrying.


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## Whitespider (Sep 7, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> *...being human it also means we are not infallible.*



Speak for yourself my dear... speak for yourself :msp_wink:


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## FLHX Storm (Sep 7, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> Speak for yourself my dear... speak for yourself :msp_wink:



Ooops, I'm sorry, I keep forgetting about all of the Demi-Gods, especially those with huge pulsating brains! :msp_scared:


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## aarolar (Sep 7, 2013)

MrWhoopee said:


> Yes, lots of armed people up here. And they sometimes shoot.
> Met this guy for the first time on Tuesday when I was cutting wood along the highway.
> 
> Shingletown Man Accused of Shooting Neighbor Has Criminal History | Local News - Home
> ...



Its like American Express, I never leave home without it...


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## brewmonster (Sep 7, 2013)

The link in MrWhoppee's post reveals this very relevant headline:
_Neighbor Dispute Leads to Fatal Shooting in Shingletown_
This is what these things can lead to. Thank goodness the OP's situation seems to have been resolved peacefully, at least for now.


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## dieselfitter (Sep 7, 2013)

OP, Word gets around in a small town. Could it be when word got around about your new neighbors behavior, your other neighbors wanted to get in on the fun?


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## Gavman (Sep 7, 2013)

I for one am a little disappointed, was looking forward to the pics ect, might have to piss a few of my neibhours off now to compensate lol, not really but this thread needs a few more days of fun

Am glad it is working out the way it is though, carry on


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## srb08 (Sep 7, 2013)

dieselfitter said:


> OP, Word gets around in a small town. Could it be when word got around about your new neighbors behavior, your other neighbors wanted to get in on the fun?



The guy running the saw this morning was purely coincidence, I spoke with him this evening. 
The kids last night are a real possibility, they were back at it earlier.
I think the new neighbors left, there weren't any vehicles there when I went by a couple of hours ago.


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## stihl sawing (Sep 7, 2013)

Good to see it all worked out without trouble. Guess the dingbat found out she wasn't god after all. prolly went back to her city home where the real peace is.:msp_w00t:


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## FLHX Storm (Sep 7, 2013)

What has probably happened is she went back home and is anxiously waiting for Monday where she will be able to get in to speak with her attorney. "She'll show all y'all" since she is the vindictive type. But, her attorney will also tell her exactly where the bear does it in the woods. The poor thing just might burst into flames! :angry2: (said with sarcasm) :msp_w00t:

If she wanted the peace and quiet of a country setting she should purchase 1000 acres and plant her house right in the middle of it. Or better yet, just buy an island some place, like near the South Pole!


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## srb08 (Sep 7, 2013)

Gavman said:


> I for one am a little disappointed, was looking forward to the pics ect, might have to piss a few of my neibhours off now to compensate lol, not really but this thread needs a few more days of fun
> 
> Am glad it is working out the way it is though, carry on



As foul a human being as this woman is, I don't see her throwing in the towel without a fight.


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## stihl sawing (Sep 8, 2013)

srb08 said:


> As foul a human being as this woman is, I don't see her throwing in the towel without a fight.


I just hope she don't move next to me. she wouldn't like it here either.:msp_biggrin:


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## mitch95100 (Sep 8, 2013)

slowp said:


> Yes. Just think, she is much more tacky than the OP, who is spouting off on the internet!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Slowp,
I agree with your point that we need to be on good terms with our country neighbors becouse thats how we live and survive out here. Neighbors cattle out? Put them back in. Expect the same from them. Id do anything for my neighbors becouse they would do the same for me. The problem lies when you so called "neighbors" start causing trouble that could better be left alone. If they move out into the country to find peace and quiet and they move next to a person who works for a living and heats his house with wood, thats their problem.
We play nice but everyone should respect eachothers property, family, and the decisions and actions they make and or do with them.

Sent from me to you using my fingers


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## fubar2 (Sep 8, 2013)

To properly icing the cake you will need to get word back to Katherine through a non involved third party that you will make her submit to a fingerprinting and mugshot just in case the next time she sets foot on your property and the enormity of the bellie laughs everybody in the county got at her expense.


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## 7sleeper (Sep 8, 2013)

What I have been wondering is, I don't know if it has been mentioned before, what is she going to do when the first storm comes through and 1. some trees fall on her driveway and 2. the power lines get ditched? Will she then recognize that electricity doesn't miracously come out of the soket in the wall? And the best is going to be when it's during a winterstorm.... she could freeze to death if she doesn't have some major precations. 

Further I believe that it was a wise situation to not take a gun to any confrontation! Much better would be a video camera mounted on your gator overlooking your workarea and documenting the vocabulary coming out of her mouth. Just think of her friends seeing her on youtube.... 

Finally I would have talked shortly to the police and described the problems in advance. Always good to be first to document a problem. 

7


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## Whitespider (Sep 8, 2013)

srb08 said:


> *As foul a human being as this woman is, I don't see her throwing in the towel without a fight.*



I'd say you've likely got that pegged correctly.... the thing is, unless you screw-up, she can't do anything. I'm bettin' when she finally comes to the realization there ain't anything she can do in a legal, or civil sense, she's gonna' try to really pizz-you-off in hopes you do something she can pounce on. Look for it, get ahead of it, keep your eyes and senses sharp... and above all, don't lose your head. Don't play her game; when you find roofing nails spread on your drive don't get pizzed-off and throw 'em on hers... just call the sheriff and report roofing nails on your drive. Don't mention names and point fingers (unless a deputy asks if you have an enemy), just report someone spread roofing nail on your drive. She's already shown her colors to the sheriff's dept... she'll make her own bed if you stay calm, cool and keep breathing.


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## Walt41 (Sep 8, 2013)

Unfortunately i've seen these things play out before and you have not heard the last of her. These people have a "city slickers handbook" and the next move will be her attorney filing motions and contacting the local politicians and trying to influence you local plannning or zoning board, I would preempt such moves by finding out who the shot callers are and where there heads are at. I would also not have another conversation with her without a witness present, she has already proven to be a couple sandwiches short of a proper lunch, no telling what stories she might cook up to neutralize you.


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## srb08 (Sep 8, 2013)

7sleeper said:


> What I have been wondering is, I don't know if it has been mentioned before, what is she going to do when the first storm comes through and 1. some trees fall on her driveway and 2. the power lines get ditched? Will she then recognize that electricity doesn't miracously come out of the soket in the wall? And the best is going to be when it's during a winterstorm.... she could freeze to death if she doesn't have some major precations.
> 
> Further I believe that it was a wise situation to not take a gun to any confrontation! Much better would be a video camera mounted on your gator overlooking your workarea and documenting the vocabulary coming out of her mouth. Just think of her friends seeing her on youtube....
> 
> ...



She doesn't' live here full time, this is weekend place for her.
The sheriff's department has been involved.


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## 7sleeper (Sep 8, 2013)

srb08 said:


> She doesn't' live here full time, this is weekend place for her.
> The sheriff's department has been involved.



I understood, but who knows maybe a snowy Christmas party for the friends out in the nature..... 

7


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## RVALUE (Sep 8, 2013)

1. City Slickers Handbook - Classic!

2. What does _her_ forum sound like? Lets have someone give it a guess? I'm sure it is convincing.... 


Recently I have been noticing that people's opinions of a situation are extremely biased in favor of the first person that tells the story. Very hard to overcome first impressions. Just my observations.


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## srb08 (Sep 8, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> I'd say you've likely got that pegged correctly.... the thing is, unless you screw-up, she can't do anything. I'm bettin' when she finally comes to the realization there ain't anything she can do in a legal, or civil sense, she's gonna' try to really pizz-you-off in hopes you do something she can pounce on. Look for it, get ahead of it, keep your eyes and senses sharp... and above all, don't lose your head. Don't play her game; when you find roofing nails spread on your drive don't get pizzed-off and throw 'em on hers... just call the sheriff and report roofing nails on your drive. Don't mention names and point fingers (unless a deputy asks if you have an enemy), just report someone spread roofing nail on your drive. She's already shown her colors to the sheriff's dept... she'll make her own bed if you stay calm, cool and keep breathing.



Spoken like a true master. 
I've dealt with her type in the past. They have no problem violating the rights of others and are the first to complain when the same is done to them.


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## RVALUE (Sep 8, 2013)

srb08 said:


> Spoken like a true master.
> I've dealt with her type in the past. They have no problem violating the rights of others and are the first to complain when the same is done to them.



I've found that NO ONE wants to or will take what they dish out. Try not giving a doctor a warranty in construction. :msp_ohmy:


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## srb08 (Sep 8, 2013)

Walt41 said:


> Unfortunately i've seen these things play out before and you have not heard the last of her. These people have a "city slickers handbook" and the next move will be her attorney filing motions and contacting the local politicians and trying to influence you local plannning or zoning board, I would preempt such moves by finding out who the shot callers are and where there heads are at. I would also not have another conversation with her without a witness present, she has already proven to be a couple sandwiches short of a proper lunch, no telling what stories she might cook up to neutralize you.



Agreed, it's time to circle the wagons and prepare for the attack.


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## lone wolf (Sep 8, 2013)

srb08 said:


> She doesn't' live here full time, this is weekend place for her.
> The sheriff's department has been involved.



Cant even get along with her neighbors 2 days a week! What does that say? I have been getting along with mine for years and I guarantee I make as much noise as the OP. She should have tried a much more friendly approach from the start. If you help your neighbors and they are decent people then they return the favors and are good to you. This woman can't be reasoned with I am sure!:msp_ohmy:


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## Whitespider (Sep 8, 2013)

Walt41 said:


> *...you have not heard the last of her. ...the next move will be her attorney filing motions and contacting the local politicians and trying to influence you local plannning or zoning board...*



*Walt41*,

She may want her attorney to file motions and such... but I seriously doubt he'll go along with her because there's zero chance it could work, and he'd look like an idiot to his peers. The OP lives in Missouri, not New York... Midwestern folk just see things differently than Eastern dwellers. The property is rural and that's how it's zoned, it won't be changed... it can't be changed without upsetting the whole apple cart. The people living, and making a living in those rural areas are the same people who vote-in the County Board Members (who normally are rural dwellers from the same county) and pay taxes. Out here in fly-over-country, it's the people-of-the-county who make the policies... the county politicians (the County Board) just keeps it all organized.

There's a chunk of wooded property on the river, down the road 'bout a half mile, owned by a police officer in New York state (a inheritance/marriage thing). Anyway, a few years ago he wanted to develop the property, divide it into lots, put in a bunch of driveways off the road, wells and septic systems, and then sell them off. Before the county board would give him the necessary permits they held an open forum, everyone in this area (and a lot of other county folk) showed up and said, "_NO! AND HELL NO!_" He tried the lawyer thing... didn't work... the board pretty much laughed his Des Moines lawyer out'a the county. Ain't anyone in this county who wants a bunch of city-slicker sub-divisions retirement homes popping up all over the county messin' up our way of life... and if ya' let one in you've set the precedent.

Now she might could try and get a county noise ordinance voted in (but the people of the county would be doing the voting). Even if she succeeded it wouldn't be in effect during farming/ranching hours, maybe she'd have "quiet" time from midnight to 4:00 AM... and even that would be suspended during planting and harvest (many run 'round the clock until it's done). Her other option is a civil suit, maybe try suing for aggravation... but, like I said before, if the OP ain't running equipment right next to her at 2:00 AM... she ain't got the equal to squat from a Missouri mule... and if she ain't a resident of the county she has less than that.

Her only real chance is if the OP loses his cool and screws-up...


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## artbaldoni (Sep 8, 2013)

I had the same type of thing here. Some new folks moved in and wanted to put a new lane/driveway in. One of the neighbors had a mailbox along the hard road where the lane was to start. Instead of asking the neighbor about moving the mailbox a registered letter was sent from their attorney giving 30 days to move the mailbox. NOT how we do things around here!

Over several years these people (mostly the wife) complained about a lot of different things including cutting wood "near", not on, their property. Bad relations all around. Fast forward several years. Husband dies from cancer. 42 years old, leaves behind a 12 year old son and the wife. 

I decided to bury the hatchet and went to see her and offer my services for whatever she might need around her place. We still are not "visiting" neighbors, but the complaining has ceased. She has even allowed me to clear some of her land along my lane and keep it mowed. Recently she called me and said there were a lot of dead trees on her property and would I like to have them. 

Situations change. Someday the "crazy lady" may come to her senses. Don't burn all the bridges...people can change, even "city slickers".


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## srb08 (Sep 8, 2013)

RVALUE said:


> 1. City Slickers Handbook - Classic!
> 
> 2. What does _her_ forum sound like? Lets have someone give it a guess? I'm sure it is convincing....
> 
> ...



All valid points.
My purpose here is not to trash someone else in a public forum or drum support against her, or for myself.
You don't know her, she doesn't know you. I seriously doubt that she, or anyone she knows reads this forum.
I was simply sharing an experience I had, with this community, nothing more, nothing less. 
I wasn't looking for advice, although I've gotten a lot, much of it very good and appreciated. 
If she's sharing her experience with others, good for her, maybe someone will explain to her that she's a total B***h. 
The title of the thread, some people, sums it up. All of us, at some point have dealt with a Katherine, I was just sharing my experience.


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## Walt41 (Sep 8, 2013)

srb08 said:


> Agreed, it's time to circle the wagons and prepare for the attack.



Find the weak link and weld it up before it breaks, every town has a councilman that can be bought or influenced in a way to make things tough on tradition, sad but true. I have seen things get approved and changed in ways I could have never imagined.


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## srb08 (Sep 8, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> *Walt41*,
> 
> She may want her attorney to file motions and such... but I seriously doubt he'll go along with her because there's zero chance it could work, and he'd look like an idiot to his peers. The OP lives in Missouri, not New York... Midwestern folk just see things differently than Eastern dwellers. The property is rural and that's how it's zoned, it won't be changed... it can't be changed without upsetting the whole apple cart. The people living, and making a living in those rural areas are the same people who vote-in the County Board Members (who normally are rural dwellers from the same county) and pay taxes. Out here in fly-over-country, it's the people-of-the-county who make the policies... the county politicians (the County Board) just keeps it all organized.
> 
> ...



I think this might be the best post in the entire thread. 
It sums things up perfectly. 
Folks who have not lived in the country just don't understand that things work differently, much differently.


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## Fifelaker (Sep 8, 2013)

Throw a bucket of water on her she will just melt. I seen it in a movie so it must be true.

I have dealt with these types before also. Just keep it legal and thing seem to work out better. Don't let it get too far out of hand before you seek legal help.


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## Gavman (Sep 8, 2013)

Way better thread than, should I stack my wood bark side up or bark side down....


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## lone wolf (Sep 8, 2013)

Gavman said:


> Way better thread than, should I stack my wood bark side up or bark side down....



Bark down always worked for me.


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## Speed (Sep 8, 2013)

Gavman said:


> Way better thread than, should I stack my wood bark side up or bark side down....



I always figured if that concerned someone that much, do they get confused when it is a round?


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## zogger (Sep 8, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> *Walt41*,
> 
> She may want her attorney to file motions and such... but I seriously doubt he'll go along with her because there's zero chance it could work, and he'd look like an idiot to his peers. The OP lives in Missouri, not New York... Midwestern folk just see things differently than Eastern dwellers. The property is rural and that's how it's zoned, it won't be changed... it can't be changed without upsetting the whole apple cart. The people living, and making a living in those rural areas are the same people who vote-in the County Board Members (who normally are rural dwellers from the same county) and pay taxes. Out here in fly-over-country, it's the people-of-the-county who make the policies... the county politicians (the County Board) just keeps it all organized.
> 
> ...



the thing with the cop though..going against the "my property, I should be able to do with it what I want to do" deal that a lot of country people espouse. In fact most rural people I know believe this..until something like that starts to happen, then they change their minds because what the other property owner wants to do isn't to their liking.

I see no clear cut winners here. Which is it, allowed to use your property, or not? See the hypocrisy there?

I am more in favor of being consistent, even if it means the other guy gets to do stuff you might not approve of. I am way more consistent Libertarian/Constituionalist about things. It is not my call to tell other people what they can and can't do, and it is not their call to try that on me either. As long as they aren't committing clear cut obvious crimes, I believe people should be allowed their born with freedoms consistently across the board.


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## philoshop (Sep 8, 2013)

Bark up when it's raining, and down when it's sunny. Rounds get stood on end. Doesn't everybody know this?:msp_lol:
OP, keep your chin up and your head cool! You're on the side of the angels.


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## Speed (Sep 8, 2013)

philoshop said:


> Bark up when it's raining, and down when it's sunny. Rounds get stood on end. Doesn't everybody know this?:msp_lol:
> OP, keep your chin up and your head cool! You're on the side of the angels.



Those intermittent shower days are BUSY. Flipping wood back and forth all day. And I wonder why I can't get anything accomplished.

Seriously though, I'm glad things have cooled off in your neighborhood for now, OP. Hopefully, she realizes either blend in(doubt it) or just sells and moves along. It bothers me that people leave the city, and then want to bring it with them. If they like it so much they should stay there. There is a reason I don't go to the city, and never will. There aren't enough corn fields or tractors there. That and they won't let you shoot those bushy tail rats that they have an over abundance of.


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## boda65 (Sep 8, 2013)

RVALUE said:


> Recently I have been noticing that people's opinions of a situation are extremely biased in favor of the first person that tells the story. Very hard to overcome first impressions. Just my observations.



And that is why numerous people suggested he contact the Sheriff immediately when she first trespassed. The same is true with the law, often the first person to complain to the law is seen as the victim. Luckily in this case the woman has already shown her true colors to the Sheriff.


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## Vermonster (Sep 8, 2013)

A more appropriate name for this thread should be " My Dirty Laundry." Normally not something to be aired in public. But, I suppose it's generating clicks therefore generating money for the hosts of the site. 

Have fun.


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## lone wolf (Sep 8, 2013)

Vermonster said:


> A more appropriate name for this thread should be " My Dirty Laundry." Normally not something to be aired in public. But, I suppose it's generating clicks therefore generating money for the hosts of the site.
> 
> Have fun.



It seems to be a fairly hot topic which tells me that a lot of people have had problems with neighbors.opcorn:


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 8, 2013)

zogger said:


> the thing with the cop though..going against the "my property, I should be able to do with it what I want to do" deal that a lot of country people espouse. In fact most rural people I know believe this..until something like that starts to happen, then they change their minds because what the other property owner wants to do isn't to their liking.
> 
> I see no clear cut winners here. Which is it, allowed to use your property, or not? See the hypocrisy there?
> 
> I am more in favor of being consistent, even if it means the other guy gets to do stuff you might not approve of. I am way more consistent Libertarian/Constituionalist about things. It is not my call to tell other people what they can and can't do, and it is not their call to try that on me either. As long as they aren't committing clear cut obvious crimes, I believe people should be allowed their born with freedoms consistently across the board.



As in all personal rights issues, it should be your right until it begins to infringe on the rights of others. The problem is defining that line.


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## zogger (Sep 8, 2013)

MrWhoopee said:


> As in all personal rights issues, it should be your right until it begins to infringe on the rights of others. The problem is defining that line.



It's really not that complex. If your pursuits are limited to your property, that's it. 

Nowq, I understand excessive noise, as the person making the noise is not limiting that noise to his property, so there needs to be some guidlelines on that. One must be able to adapt and be willing to compromise due to changing situations.

Or anything else like that, where a person's actions continue on and leave their property borders, burning nasty chemical radioactive waste out in the open for instance, or dumping poisonous slude into a creek which goes on to the next guys property....


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## MrWhoopee (Sep 8, 2013)

zogger said:


> It's really not that complex. If your pursuits are limited to your property, that's it.
> 
> Nowq, I understand excessive noise, as the person making the noise is not limiting that noise to his property, so there needs to be some guidlelines on that. One must be able to adapt and be willing to compromise due to changing situations.
> 
> Or anything else like that, where a person's actions continue on and leave their property borders, burning nasty chemical radioactive waste out in the open for instance, or dumping poisonous slude into a creek which goes on to the next guys property....



Or when the losers, meth freaks and rats begin to spread to your neighbor's property.


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 8, 2013)

Speed said:


> I always figured if that concerned someone that much, do they get confused when it is a round?



Or worse when it has no bark on it.

Harry K


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## Whitespider (Sep 8, 2013)

Walt41 said:


> *...every town has a councilman that can be bought or influenced in a way to make things tough on tradition...*



*Walt*,

Man, you're just not getting "it"... the city council has no jurisdiction, the property is outside any city limits!! It's *county* business; out here the county is run by the county, the people living out in it. We elect the Board of Supervisors from members living in the county (our neighbors), and supervise is pretty much all they do (well, and count the money). If a new county ordinance (such as a noise ordinance) is gonna' be enacted... *we*, the people living out of city limits in the county, vote it up or down. This county, my county, basically has only two ordinances, and both have to do with septic systems... one is the regulations pertaining to the installation of *new systems*, and the other gives the County Board of Health jurisdiction over any complaints of a septic system causing a "public nuisance". Other than that... we don't want, or need, no friggin' rules!!




zogger said:


> *the thing with the cop though..going against the "my property, I should be able to do with it what I want to do" deal that a lot of country people espouse.
> Which is it, allowed to use your property, or not? See the hypocrisy there?*



No *zogger*, I don't see the hypocrisy at all. The man is free to "use" is property any way he sees fit... he can even sell it. What he can't do is drill multiple wells into *our* watertable, install multiple septic systems draining into *our* county, and build multiple drives across *our* roadway ditch without *our* OK. If wants to build a house for himself, no problem... put up fences, OK... build a barn, fine... set up a shooting range, no issue... buy some horses, all for it. But ya' can't develop it into suburb, add roads and drives, and sell off tiny pieces without *our* OK... that ain't him "using" his property. Heck, he ain't even a resident of the county!!!


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## Whitespider (Sep 8, 2013)

*Walt*, let give you an example of how it works...
Recently one of the local land owners wanted to sell a small chunk of his property to one of his nephew's, who wanted to build a house on it. Because the chunk of land being sold was less than 10 acres, the County Board sent out letters to any property owner who had property adjoining the land... not just adjoining the land being sold, but any owner of land adjoining the entire farm of several hundred acres (if your land is across the road, it's still considered as adjoining). If any single one of us would have protested the sale it couldn't go through... if the chunk had been 10 acres or more there wouldn't have been any issue. We are zoned rural, not residential... and the 10 acre rule is how it works, it's how rural zoning works, it's how rural land is protected from suburbia. We run the county, not politicians.


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## Walt41 (Sep 8, 2013)

I hope it does work out and I hope you guys are right that things are run "by the people"...my perspective is clouded by living in the sewer, nothing gets done here "above board" and those that can't play the game don't get things done...one of the reasons I'm out of the land development game.


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## srb08 (Sep 8, 2013)

Walt41 said:


> I hope it does work out and I hope you guys are right that things are run "by the people"...my perspective is clouded by living in the sewer, nothing gets done here "above board" and those that can't play the game don't get things done...one of the reasons I'm out of the land development game.



It's like Spidey says, the people in the county make the rules and there aren't a lot of them. 
That's why we live where we do.
I moved away from the suburbs 20+ years ago and never looked back.


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## Whitespider (Sep 8, 2013)

Yep, except for a few rare exceptions, if'n ya' live rural west of the Mississippi and east of the Rockies... there ain't much crap to put up with.


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## zogger (Sep 8, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> *Walt*,
> 
> Man, you're just not getting "it"... the city council has no jurisdiction, the property is outside any city limits!! It's *county* business; out here the county is run by the county, the people living out in it. We elect the Board of Supervisors from members living in the county (our neighbors), and supervise is pretty much all they do (well, and count the money). If a new county ordinance (such as a noise ordinance) is gonna' be enacted... *we*, the people living out of city limits in the county, vote it up or down. This county, my county, basically has only two ordinances, and both have to do with septic systems... one is the regulations pertaining to the installation of *new systems*, and the other gives the County Board of Health jurisdiction over any complaints of a septic system causing a "public nuisance". Other than that... we don't want, or need, no friggin' rules!!
> 
> ...



Nope, disagree, and you are using the typical hypocritical statist POV that your rights trump someone elses because you say so, constitution be damned, might and numbers make right. 

Been here long enough I know you will immediately deny it, doesn't change the facts though, your county "rules". Uh huh Your country decides that anyone under 6 foot and doesn't have blue eyes isn't allowed there..just because some yahoos pass some law doesn't make it ethical or constitutional, it happens all the time though, and IMO is what is primarily wrong with this nation, 99% of the people are statists and also in favor of mob rule, might makes right.

When I was a kid, was a city near where we lived had a "law" posted at the city line. Welcome to _____, near there typical moose lodge, kiwanis, elks, etc...and a sign that said NO N------ ALLOWED.

All legal, they voted on it, passed their local law.......

They didn't want "outsiders" coming in....for whatever reasons they came up with at the time, they put "restrictions" and "zoned" that city against someone else's freedom.....

Water rights. you have no problem with a single family going in and farming..swell..I work on a farm, i am a full time farmer, and you ain't, but you live rural..maybe we all should pass laws that to live rural you have to be a full time farmer, otherwise, back to the city! No second homes or camps, infringing on the locals "rights"....zone it pure, cleanse the area of outsiders and their odd ways....

The primary farming done here where I live and work is poultry. Ever even wonder how much water a single broiler house uses, let along a reasonable normal single family run broiler farm, which could easily be 8 houses? Each broiler house would use MORE water than your theoretical 10 acre subdivision....but it's farming so that is OK? 10 acres, one family, and full time farming...You are in the corn belt, how much water gets sucked out of those 'fossil" aquifers to make corn gas for monsanto and those farmers? And where are the borders underground, when it flows like streams? Can one guy suck ALL the water out because he owns thousands of acres there? 

Yes, I see the point there for restrictions because the use extends BEYOND the property border. There is no way to limit, outside of gallons/yr/acre, to be determined scientifically somehow, how much a single owner could pull and use without it negatively impacting the neighbors on the other side of some property line.

I am consistent here, I don't pick and choose which to follow or not of our old tenets that where well thought out by some pretty smart guys. 

If that guys residential area used the same or less water than a farm there doing "allowed" irrigation, or a typical hog farm that used water plus had to use a manure lagoon, not seeing as how it is anyone else's business, other than statism and "might makes right"..

Now the original OP post, he wasn't doing a single thing to infringe on the new neighbors rights at all, she was out of line. Normal human use of rural acreage can and often does involved equipment noises, some dust sometimes, animal noises perhaps, etc. And given the nature of physics, pretty hard to keep all that inisde a border. 

In her city, she had the same thing, road noises all the time, sirens at intermittent times, even late at night, etc. she was out of line. but..her right to move in and live, just not to go nuts on the neighbor, she crossed the line first. 

If later on she wants to have a big weekend party, whoopedy zing, people are allowed to have friends over, and if there is "noise" say live music, oh well, humans are social creaters and various GTG type events are well known and understood in our species going way back. Shouldn't be any "zoning" for or against normal human behavior and the freedom to be YOU.

there should never, no exceptions, be any "permit" needed for born with rights.


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## lone wolf (Sep 8, 2013)

Hey Op how much distance is between you and the PMS woman?


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## RVALUE (Sep 8, 2013)

srb08 said:


> It's like Spidey says, the people in the county make the rules and there aren't a lot of them.
> That's why we live where we do.
> I moved away from the suburbs 20+ years ago and never looked back.



You left this tid bit of information out. This changes everything. You see, in fact, you are one of '_them_'. This brings this matter under the umbrella of 'domestic situation'. One could not argue that simply being somewhere 'longer' trumps anything. 

This seems no different to me than two 'immigrants' bringing their territorial differences to another country, specifically ours. Then picking and choosing which customs to follow in the determining of outcomes. 



In summary, most of the information contained herein was proper and accurate, albeit formed and extracted from a tainted portrayal of the facts. So one could learn from this, much the same as watching a girl fall into the lit candles and oil, and deciding to not be a girl.




Tarry on.


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## srb08 (Sep 8, 2013)

lone wolf said:


> Hey Op how much distance is between you and the PMS woman?



We share a property line for about 100yds. From my processing site to her house is 300yds. From her house to mine is around 1/2 mile. She is now my closest neighbor, distance wise.


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## lone wolf (Sep 8, 2013)

srb08 said:


> We share a property line for about 100yds. From my processing site to her house is 300yds. From her house to mine is around 1/2 mile. She is now my closest neighbor, distance wise.



900 feet away and the sawing bothers her? I mean I live in NJ, and there are houses 300 feet away. I would think 300 yards is a decent distance away it cant be that loud at her place. That's not reasonable at all!


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## RVALUE (Sep 8, 2013)

Actually I am having trouble figuring out whether getting sideways with a neighbor with a boob job is a good or bad thing.
:msp_confused:


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## srb08 (Sep 8, 2013)

RVALUE said:


> You left this tid bit of information out. This changes everything. You see, in fact, you are one of '_them_'. This brings this matter under the umbrella of 'domestic situation'. One could not argue that simply being somewhere 'longer' trumps anything.
> 
> This seems no different to me than two 'immigrants' bringing their territorial differences to another country, specifically ours. Then picking and choosing which customs to follow in the determining of outcomes.
> 
> ...


You make a compelling argument.
Unfortunately, I can't quite figure out what it is.


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## stihl sawing (Sep 8, 2013)

opcorn:


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## stihlguy (Sep 8, 2013)

Speaking of "BOOB JOB", if there is no picture, it didn't happen!!!


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## Whitespider (Sep 9, 2013)

zogger said:


> *Nope, disagree, and you are using the typical hypocritical statist POV that your rights trump someone elses because you say so, constitution be damned, might and numbers make right.
> 
> Been here long enough I know you will immediately deny it, doesn't change the facts though, your county "rules". Uh huh Your country decides that anyone under 6 foot and doesn't have blue eyes isn't allowed there...*



*zogger*, that's ridiculous. The county can't enact an ordinance discriminating against short brown-eyed people any more than we can discriminate against Blacks or Jews... there's something called the Fourteenth Amendment ya' know? I ain't talkin' about my rights trumping anything... heck, I ain't even talkin' about my rights. The simple fact is that New York cop wanted to take his parcel of rural Iowa land and turn it into a residential area... *it ain't zoned for residential!!!* He can't do that unless the county allows an exception!!! We, the people of the county, allow for exceptions to zoning "rule" or "law" all the time (for example the farmer selling his nephew the less than 10 acre lot I talked about)... we're fair minded people. The simple fact is that New York cop couldn't "develop" his land into suburbia because the land ain't zoned for it, so he had to take it to the board to be considered for exception... and the county elected not to grant this particular exception for a lot of reasons, some of which were environmental impacts. It ain't like we made a *new rule* just for him... it's just that we elected not to allow the exception of zoning law for this particular purpose. Heck man, some counties don't even have an exception process... but we like to think we're a bit more understanding than that.

C'mon man, this county don't have a public water system or a public waste disposal system. Putting in a residential area means drilling multiple wells right next to multiple septic systems... and it just don't work that way. What about law enforcement, fire, and whatnot... cripes man, most of our first response people are volunteer. I could go on-and-on... but what's the point? You've already decided we're a bunch of selfish pricks anyway.


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## zogger (Sep 9, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> *zogger*, that's ridiculous. The county can't enact an ordinance discriminating against short brown-eyed people any more than we can discriminate against Blacks or Jews... there's something called the Fourteenth Amendment ya' know? I ain't talkin' about my rights trumping anything... heck, I ain't even talkin' about my rights. The simple fact is that New York cop wanted to take his parcel of rural Iowa land and turn it into a residential area... *it ain't zoned for residential!!!* He can't do that unless the county allows an exception!!! We, the people of the county, allow for exceptions to zoning "rule" or "law" all the time (for example the farmer selling his nephew the less than 10 acre lot I talked about)... we're fair minded people. The simple fact is that New York cop couldn't "develop" his land into suburbia because the land ain't zoned for it, so he had to take it to the board to be considered for exception... and the county elected not to grant this particular exception for a lot of reasons, some of which were environmental impacts. It ain't like we made a *new rule* just for him... it's just that we elected not to allow the exception of zoning law for this particular purpose. Heck man, some counties don't even have an exception process... but we like to think we're a bit more understanding than that.
> 
> C'mon man, this county don't have a public water system or a public waste disposal system. Putting in a residential area means drilling multiple wells right next to multiple septic systems... and it just don't work that way. What about law enforcement, fire, and whatnot... cripes man, most of our first response people are volunteer. I could go on-and-on... but what's the point? You've already decided we're a bunch of selfish pricks anyway.





It isn't just ya'all over there at all, it is the bulk of the nation lost it. It is similar here with stuff that violates born with rights. The collective "we" lost personal freedoms and born with rights decades/generations ago, chipping away at it, bit by bit by bit. It can be tiny ionconsequential things, or big whoppers, but it all adds up. 

Incosequential, you read about things like this, various "laws", some burg decides joe blows flag isn't allowed, or it is "too big" or something. some place disallows a garden because it is in the front yard...whoppers, how abouty 100th anniversary of losing true Constitutional money this year.

To me, property rights advocate, I don't care if someone wants to put an apple orchard in downtown big city, if they own the land and want to, or conversely, put in a neighborhood someplace so people can have a place to live, or have a farm, or a factory.

Once you start going down that road and not allowing freedoms that harm no one, eventually, it comes back to bite ya.

edit: I guess I want to add a personal note, as the denied subdivision got to me.

That's the best place I lived as a kid, small subdivision way out in the country, built on some acres that an old farmer sold to a contractor. With those "rules" in place, this kid here wouldn't have had a place in the country to live in and grow up in. Both my folks had no interest in big acreage or farming, they both were kids on farms during the depression and only had bad memories of extreme poverty. But..they knew country living with a better economy was good for kids, so despite a long commute my dad had to do, they got one of those lots and house out in farm country. 

I loved it, hated it when we lived in town. I even worked for that old farmer in the summers as I grew up. If the local "zoning" hadn't allowed it, well....


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## Whitespider (Sep 9, 2013)

*zogger*, we have areas in the county, outside city limits that are zoned for residential, just like the area you grew up in... subdivisions. Before an area can be zoned for residential it has to (at a minimum) be reachable/serviceable by a public sewage treatment system. That puts them relatively close to a city, or township... but the largest city in this county has a population of only around 7000, so you don't haf'ta be very far out to be "livin' in farm country". Standing on Main Street, in any town in this county, you can walk to a farm field in less time than it takes to fill the gas tank in your pickup... even the town dwellers are darn near "country folk" 'round here. When I last "lived in town", 35 years ago, one side of my yard was bordered by a farm field and back was bordered by the river... I could throw an empty beer can across and out of the city limits in two directions from my yard. There's a reason for that sewage system zoning rule, ya' can't put 30 septic systems on 20 acres. Really, ya' shouldn't put two septic systems on one acre... although occasionally the county will make exceptions. Actually one septic system/drain field per 10 acres is the accepted general rule... just one of the many reasons for the the 10 acre "rule" in rural-zoned land. The reason you can't take a piece of your farm land and develop it into suburbia (without an exception granted by the county) is, the land simply won't support it without people getting sick from their own filth... and likely making my family sick in the process also. It's the same way with water wells... ya' just can't poke too many holes in the ground too close together. In those residential-zoned rural subdivisions each well is shared by to or three homes to limit the number of holes. We do no have public water and sewage systems "out in the county" like some rural areas with higher populations.


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## blades (Sep 9, 2013)

Just a note there was a time say back in the 50's even into the 60's where subdivisons, were set up with everyone poken holes for water on their 1/3acre or larger and having some type of septic system out back. On real small lots just a big holding tank that has to be pumped every so often. Rules have changed over the years. There are 2 sections a couple blocks from me that is on city sewer but each dwelling has its own well. On the other side of the ravine from me every place on that block ( about a mile long) back in the 60's had well out front and septic drain field out back, bulk of the lots were a minimum of 3/4 acre. All been converted now to city services. A home I owned ( well me & the mortage co.) built in 59 well out front septic in back 1 acre lot, when the village installed sewer ya had to hook up to it ( not cheap) cut the septic off and fill in or remove the tank. Still had my well until 2001, then forced to hook up to city water ( more $$$$$) and seal off well. Kinda sucks cause I never ran out of water ( 192 ft deep ) but the darn village wells were always having problems. Place I have now has always been on city services.


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## Fifelaker (Sep 9, 2013)

Just stole this from MGA in the WTF thread. You need some of these...


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## srb08 (Sep 9, 2013)

Fifelaker said:


> Just stole this from MGA in the WTF thread. You need some of these...



I wish I'd of had some of those a few months ago. 
I wonder if it would have made a difference or if the witch would have ignored it and proceeded on, secure in the fact that her wishes would trump all else.


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## 513yj (Sep 9, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> *zogger*, that's ridiculous. The county can't enact an ordinance discriminating against short brown-eyed people any more than we can discriminate against Blacks or Jews... there's something called the Fourteenth Amendment ya' know? I ain't talkin' about my rights trumping anything... heck, I ain't even talkin' about my rights. The simple fact is that New York cop wanted to take his parcel of rural Iowa land and turn it into a residential area... *it ain't zoned for residential!!!* He can't do that unless the county allows an exception!!! We, the people of the county, allow for exceptions to zoning "rule" or "law" all the time (for example the farmer selling his nephew the less than 10 acre lot I talked about)... we're fair minded people. The simple fact is that New York cop couldn't "develop" his land into suburbia because the land ain't zoned for it, so he had to take it to the board to be considered for exception... and the county elected not to grant this particular exception for a lot of reasons, some of which were environmental impacts. It ain't like we made a *new rule* just for him... it's just that we elected not to allow the exception of zoning law for this particular purpose. Heck man, some counties don't even have an exception process... but we like to think we're a bit more understanding than that.
> 
> C'mon man, this county don't have a public water system or a public waste disposal system. Putting in a residential area means drilling multiple wells right next to multiple septic systems... and it just don't work that way. What about law enforcement, fire, and whatnot... cripes man, most of our first response people are volunteer. I could go on-and-on... but what's the point? You've already decided we're a bunch of selfish pricks anyway.



Contradictory to your previous post, I live east of the Mississippi but it's the same here. Some guy around here ran into some money and cleaned up his junky yard, ran for township board and is making a stink about people having too many cars on their property and having it zoned or an ordnance enacted for vehicle limits. Hypocrisy at it's finest is having trash all over and then trying to pretend it never happened. Well, it didn't fly because you can't make rules in a township without the consent of the constituents. One blessing here is it drops about 4 feet of idiot repellent every winter or this beautiful place would be filled with more idiots than we already have.


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## Saddle Mander (Sep 10, 2013)

srb08 said:


> She had built this weekend place to *escape civilization* ..... She suggested I get a better job so I could afford electric heat, *like the rest of the civilized world*.


 

(I didn't read 13 of these 14 pages. I'm probably not the first one to point this out.)


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## srb08 (Sep 10, 2013)

Saddle Mander said:


> (I didn't read 13 of these 14 pages. I'm probably not the first one to point this out.)



I didn't catch it................and I wrote it.


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## blades (Sep 10, 2013)

Guess she hasn't figured out what fixed income means. 
The only thing fixed with the utility companies is raising the rates every quarter. 
Heck around here I even get charged a percentage of my bill to pay for deadbeats & most of them take home more in government handouts than I make.


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## kennyl70 (Sep 10, 2013)

Sorry for your slicker problems SR.
I seen to get the good ones so I havent had your problem.


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## Justsaws (Sep 11, 2013)

srb08 said:


> I didn't catch it................and I wrote it.



I did not read much past the first page, having said that here is what I have known to happen.

If the person using commercial equipment to produce a product for sale, barter and/or profit is doing so at a residence zoned as residential and the people who file the civil suit against them bought their residential property with the knowledge of having non-commercial neighbors the person making the noise has not faired well, in more ways than one.

If the property is zoned as a specific type of commercial property and a different type of commerce is taking place they have not faired well.

I think it is refered to as the right to peace or some such thing, civil injunction. If the people can prove that the offence has diminished their properties value or purpose and they had no way of knowing that the offence would be occurring then it always went forward, beyond that....

By the way, at one of the places that I used to work noise suppression devices such as mufflers and any other OEM suppression devices had to be in proper working order, compliant with zoning limits and that was a commercial property where the work done was as specified.


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## mtfallsmikey (Sep 11, 2013)

Justsaws said:


> I did not read much past the first page, having said that here is what I have known to happen.
> 
> If the person using commercial equipment to produce a product for sale, barter and/or profit is doing so at a residence zoned as residential and the people who file the civil suit against them bought their residential property with the knowledge of having non-commercial neighbors the person making the noise has not faired well, in more ways than one.
> 
> ...



Maybe the term you're lookin for is "Quiet enjoyment"


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## srb08 (Sep 11, 2013)

Justsaws said:


> I did not read much past the first page, having said that here is what I have known to happen.
> 
> If the person using commercial equipment to produce a product for sale, barter and/or profit is doing so at a residence zoned as residential and the people who file the civil suit against them bought their residential property with the knowledge of having non-commercial neighbors the person making the noise has not faired well, in more ways than one.
> 
> ...



I'm zoned agricultural.
I'm not cutting commercially.


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## johncinco (Sep 11, 2013)

I think I found your sign.


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## Whitespider (Sep 11, 2013)

513yj said:


> *Contradictory to your previous post, I live east of the Mississippi but it's the same here.*



Yes, I'm aware some places east of the Mississippi River are much like here... but more areas are not than are.
My "west of the Mississippi" comment was meant as a sort'a like a generalization... not as an absolute. I have friends that live across the river in Illinois, he offered me a pretty good job with his company a few years ago. Now I don't know how every county in that state operates, but after checking state/local laws, regulations and whatnot, I declined... I won't live were government believes I need to be protected from myself. Man... at the time, a citizen of the state could not legally carry a self-defense weapon... period!! (I believe that may have changed, but still not like here.) No friggin' thank you!! I won't live where my own state won't trust me... I simply can't understand why anyone would.


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## Justsaws (Sep 11, 2013)

srb08 said:


> I'm zoned agricultural.
> I'm not cutting commercially.



Not much they could do about it around here as long as the noise is associated with work done, if you are just standing around running your saws for hours, reving engines, playing loud music, shooting firearms, etc. then they might be able to take a run at you for intimidation or menacing or whatever it is called. In that case usually the Sheriff is involved, it still ends up as a civil injunction though.

Typically the neighbor is supposed to ask for consideration, such as turn down the music, turn off the saw after 6pm, no shooting after dark, etc.

Document the conversations and the offense.

Call the Sheriff, register complaints.

File for a civil injunction. Go to court. Roll the dice.


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## Hddnis (Sep 11, 2013)

Justsaws said:


> Not much they could do about it around here as long as the noise is associated with work done, if you are just standing around running your saws for hours, reving engines, playing loud music, shooting firearms, etc. then they might be able to take a run at you for intimidation or menacing or whatever it is called. In that case usually the Sheriff is involved, it still ends up as a civil injunction though.
> 
> Typically the neighbor is supposed to ask for consideration, such as turn down the music, turn off the saw after 6pm, no shooting after dark, etc.
> 
> ...




I know it's a really long thread and takes a bit of time to read; you might be interested to read how all of your suggestions with the exception of the last one have already been followed and how they've played out.

I find that sometimes skipping all the posts, except those by the OP, help to get though a thread faster when I just want to know how the story goes.




Mr. HE


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## Guswhit (Sep 11, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> *Walt*, let give you an example of how it works...
> Recently one of the local land owners wanted to sell a small chunk of his property to one of his nephew's, who wanted to build a house on it. Because the chunk of land being sold was less than 10 acres, the County Board sent out letters to any property owner who had property adjoining the land... not just adjoining the land being sold, but any owner of land adjoining the entire farm of several hundred acres (if your land is across the road, it's still considered as adjoining). If any single one of us would have protested the sale it couldn't go through... if the chunk had been 10 acres or more there wouldn't have been any issue. We are zoned rural, not residential... and the 10 acre rule is how it works, it's how rural zoning works, it's how rural land is protected from suburbia. We run the county, not politicians.



So let me ask you another question about this hypothetical one you describe. Lets say your neighbor "Joe" decides to sell off a chunk of land that happens to be adjoining yours that has had no fence on the boundary line in years, no one is running any kind of livestock on any of the land now or in the proposed usage for the future. What do "you" happen to think about the new owner when you receive a certified letter explaining to "you" that a fence is going to be constructed and you will be responsible for half? Just saying that "this is how rural zoning really works".


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## Whitespider (Sep 11, 2013)

Guswhit said:


> *So let me ask you another question about this hypothetical one you describe. Lets say your neighbor "Joe" decides to sell off a chunk of land that happens to be adjoining yours that has had no fence on the boundary line in years, no one is running any kind of livestock on any of the land now or in the proposed usage for the future. What do "you" happen to think about the new owner when you receive a certified letter explaining to "you" that a fence is going to be constructed and you will be responsible for half? Just saying that "this is how rural zoning really works".*



It's not quite that simple.

All "legal" partition fences are jointly owned, and maintenance is a joint responsibility.
The neighbor can't just put a fence along one side of his property (my side for example) and compel me to build or pay for half of it, the fence must be an enclosure and all other adjoining property owners must also be compelled (if the enclosure extends to their property line).
The fence must be a "legal" fence by Iowa code... decorative fences, such as most privacy type, split rail, and whatnot do not qualify.
If I am compelled, I do not have to pay for half his fence... I can simply elect to build my half of the fence and it doesn't need to be the same style or type as long as it fits the description of a "legal" fence (although, if livestock is involved there may be certain other requirements)... it don't have to be pretty, just fit the description of "legal".
Any disputes are resolved through "Fence Viewers"... depending on purpose and/or circumstances I may not be compelled to contribute at all. In other words, my neighbor cannot decide to put up a fence simply because he wants one (i.e., like your example) and compel me to contribute half... he must show a valid purpose or need for the "legal" fence (repairs and replacement for an existing fence, if needed, is another issue), such as habitual trespassing by livestock (from either property).
Actually this just happened between a couple neighbors by dad last summer. One of them wanted to put up a woven wire fence to keep the other neighbors dog off his property... but his planned fence wasn't "legal" or an enclosure, so he couldn't compel the other to contribute.


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## Justsaws (Sep 11, 2013)

Hddnis said:


> I know it's a really long thread and takes a bit of time to read; you might be interested to read how all of your suggestions with the exception of the last one have already been followed and how they've played out.
> 
> I find that sometimes skipping all the posts, except those by the OP, help to get though a thread faster when I just want to know how the story goes.
> 
> ...



TL;dr


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## slowp (Sep 11, 2013)

Vermonster said:


> A more appropriate name for this thread should be " My Dirty Laundry." Normally not something to be aired in public. But, I suppose it's generating clicks therefore generating money for the hosts of the site.
> 
> Have fun.





Like button for you....


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## Walt41 (Sep 11, 2013)

Nice double standard, you can come on here complaining about "other peoples children" but when someone comes here with a serious situation it is wrong to do.


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## lone wolf (Sep 11, 2013)

Walt41 said:


> Nice double standard, you can come on here complaining about "other peoples children" but when someone comes here with a serious situation it is wrong to do.



The ones that Ski on her Slopes?opcorn:


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## Walt41 (Sep 11, 2013)

Those would be the ones, reminds me of a make a wish that my company made happen many moons ago, the dying child was on a trip with her family and the father reported back that since it was during the school year, many crotchety people they encountered kept asking her why she was not in school. The policy now is the families wear little logoed stars on their sponsored trips so the self appointed truancy police leave them alone (hopefully)


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## lone wolf (Sep 12, 2013)

:msp_thumbup:


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