# "Shooting undercuts" Tricks of the trade???



## Westboastfaller (Nov 21, 2016)

What works for you? What advice would you give if you were breaking someone in? Foot work? Wrist work? starting points ect.?


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## bitzer (Nov 21, 2016)

First you need to rev the piss out of it. Tip yer hat. Then close yer eyes and lay into her. When the cuts meet. Stop. Oh and try not to look like an arborist when doing it.


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 21, 2016)

bitzer said:


> First you need to rev the piss out of it. Tip yer hat. Then close yer eyes and lay into her. When the cuts meet. Stop. Oh and try not to look like an arborist when doing it.


 LOL. yeah know what people? there is a lot to be said about this! sure we will elaborate later ...maybe haha. ..but we don't ever know for sure.
It's a Dam 'felling' that comes with experience. I like what you say "shut your eyes" because it is a feeling


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 21, 2016)

How do I shoot big undercut? To keep it ambiguous on the tricks yet but I do what he^^^ does. I Marry up the cuts


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 21, 2016)

shutting your eyes is a key hint and so is "feeling" How would you do it with your eyes shut??? what would be your best chance be of marring up your cuts?
In all reality if you thought like a blind person , it would be easier.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 21, 2016)

Trust yer gun cut. Then make the face match it.

an easy trick at least on big wood is to dog in where the bar meets the gun cut, point the tip towards the lay, then angle it down for the slope bit, the saw will walk right around and meet up on the other side no problem.

Other wise, simply take yer ****ing time and visualize the cuts, stop every now and then and check yer progress on the off side, I still do this.

and stop when you are parallel with the gun cut and chunk out as necessary, if you've dutched it take the time to clean it out, even a small dutch can **** yer day up.

Use them dogs, its what they is for.


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## bnmc98 (Nov 21, 2016)

I always take a quick glance at my bar (visualize where its pointing) before I pull it out of the kerf, then I pretend I can see through the tree to the edge of the cut on the other side and line it up and let er rip.
Oh and the whole if you've done it enough you just know the feel thing too... but
Honestly I am doing more skidding now than cutting, so when I get on the saw after being off it a while I try to do what I first mentioned to get me back into rhythm.


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## Gologit (Nov 21, 2016)

Anybody who matches their cuts up perfectly every time please raise their hand.
Hello? Anybody?
Yeah, me either.
The trick is to be able to recognize that you've gone a little astray before you let it turn into a disaster. Trimming up a face or having to throw a chunk into the face is time consuming but it's better than having a money maker busted all to hell because it got away from you.


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## Woos31 (Nov 21, 2016)

bnmc98 said:


> I always take a quick glance at my bar (visualize where its pointing) before I pull it out of the kerf, then I pretend I can see through the tree to the edge of the cut on the other side and line it up and let er rip.
> Oh and the whole if you've done it enough you just know the feel thing too... but
> Honestly I am doing more skidding now than cutting, so when I get on the saw after being off it a while I try to do what I first mentioned to get me back into rhythm.


I always take a look out the sight to whatever I picked to mash and see if I'm getting close after walkin round to check muh self then feel for the bump of the cuts coming together and the face falls out


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## Woos31 (Nov 21, 2016)

That is if I haven't already doinked it up of course


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## Woos31 (Nov 21, 2016)

Gologit said:


> Anybody who matches their cuts up perfectly every time please raise their hand.
> Hello? Anybody?
> Yeah, me either.
> The trick is to be able to recognize that you've gone a little astray before you let it turn into a disaster. Trimming up a face or having to throw a chunk into the face is time consuming but it's better than having a money maker busted all to hell because it got away from you.


Yep, don't wanna splain to the bull buck why they gots tuh go to diamond match company. Had to put a chunk in a face just yesterday cuz I doinked up dumping a wood tree


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## Big_Wood (Nov 21, 2016)

best advice i ever got when dropping from a top cut to a lower cut is to not think. literally, from buried in top cut to making second cut in one motion. if you stop to think for even a second your ****ed. the body naturally has the angle but overthinking it results in mistakes. 80% of my undercuts just drop out, 15% need minor clean up, 3% are major clean ups, and the other 2% are absolute **** up i just dump to avoid making a totally unacceptable stump which of course i clean up best i can afterwards lol


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## RandyMac (Nov 22, 2016)

I don't often give advice, someone might actually try it and find the deep end has no bottom.


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## Woos31 (Nov 22, 2016)

RandyMac said:


> I don't often give advice, someone might actually try it and find the deep end has no bottom.


I shouldn't without a disclaimer ticket somewhere to go along lol, that and I don't deserve to like most guys here as I haven't yet got the back uh my ears dry cuz most have earned their advice to give


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## Big_Wood (Nov 22, 2016)

RandyMac said:


> I don't often give advice, someone might actually try it and find the deep end has no bottom.



weren't you the guy who gave the 50% undercut advice in another thread lol


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## RandyMac (Nov 22, 2016)

westcoaster90 said:


> weren't you the guy who gave the 50% undercut advice in another thread lol



Probably, along those lines anyway. The term I use is 'steep and deep'.


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## Big_Wood (Nov 22, 2016)

RandyMac said:


> Probably, along those lines anyway. The term I use is 'steep and deep'.



honestly, likely better for a faller's personally safety and easier to get the big wood over but dang the industry regulations here are a pain in the ass.


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 22, 2016)

RandyMac said:


> I don't often give advice, someone might actually try it and find the deep end has no bottom.


LOL ...that's right...I disagree with Gologit. as a matter of fact my cuts always marry up. Sometimes it's just 95% deep. j/k

I prefer to think of it as sharing


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## Bwildered (Nov 22, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> What works for you? What advice would you give if you were breaking someone in? Foot work? Wrist work? starting points ect.?


I'd make sure they could join up the cuts on horizontal fallen logs docking them off first before progressing to something standing up, then give them some chalk lines on some high stumps to practice on, some saws are just mongrels to get used to, if I go from an old 076 to a ms660 it looks like I'm a beginner again, cuts out of level & cuts not joining up, there is something about the dynamics with those old saws which makes it easier.
Scratcheadski


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## bitzer (Nov 22, 2016)

I forgot. If you have a big chaw in the left side of yer yap you should be cutting on the right side of the tree. Balance my friends, balance. Now if your smoking it's the opposite. Let the grit hang downhill.


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## bnmc98 (Nov 22, 2016)

oh
You guys probably know this one....
another trick I do, especially if I am using a half wrap handle saw (because I hate back barring all day) or on steeps on the downhill side. I will make top cut, and pull it straight out tip the saw to the angle I want the undercut, and bore all the way across connecting the back of the first cut with the top of the bar. Then when I get through, I dog down, cut down and cut the wedge out. When you bore, the kerf in the first cut will actually act like a guide and hep you run the top of the bar along it. 
doesn't wear you out as much either.


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## bitzer (Nov 23, 2016)

I do that a lot on marms and high stumps.


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 23, 2016)

bnmc98 said:


> I always take a quick glance at my bar (visualize where its pointing) before I pull it out of the kerf, then I pretend I can see through the tree to the edge of the cut on the other side and line it up and let er rip.


 That's what I would do if I start my Humboldt from the side, which I seldom do.




bnmc98 said:


> oh
> You guys probably know this one....
> another trick I do, especially if I am using a half wrap handle saw (because I hate back barring all day) or on steeps on the downhill side. I will make top cut, and pull it straight out tip the saw to the angle I want the undercut, and bore all the way across connecting the back of the first cut with the top of the bar. Then when I get through, I dog down, cut down and cut the wedge out. When you bore, the kerf in the first cut will actually act like a guide and help you run the top of the bar along it.
> doesn't wear you out as much either.


 I would do something similar if the dogs won't reach also for forward Leaning trees. I start tip cutting up the side on the backbar. Seems easier to visualize the right angle. Them bore in and cut down.


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## bnmc98 (Nov 24, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> I start tip cutting up the side on the backbar. Seems easier to visualize the right angle. Them bore in and cut down.



Yeah that's what I do too, just didn't verbalize it. Tough to get the right angle just boring straight in imo


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 24, 2016)

bnmc98 said:


> Yeah that's what I do too, just didn't verbalize it. Tough to get the right angle just boring straight in imo


Yes for sure, it's not the same. You can get a good read this way.

If I have to cut a big tree from the side
I can visualize better this way than I can setting the dog in the corner of the mouth. Starting with the dogs in the corner is a small tree tecneque for me or for when I have to be really accurate.


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 24, 2016)

westcoaster90 said:


> best advice i ever got when dropping from a top cut to a lower cut is to not think. literally, from buried in top cut to making second cut in one motion. if you stop to think for even a second your ****ed. the body naturally has the angle but overthinking it results in mistakes. 80% of my undercuts just drop out, 15% need minor clean up, 3% are major clean ups, and the other 2% are absolute **** up i just dump to avoid making a totally unacceptable stump which of course i clean up best i can afterwards lol


 That's the only way to fly in bar size and bigger. Straight out the front and set fast and without the dogs. The secret is lock all your joints to your top cut aim. When I come out of the LEVEL top cut I only move my uper torso laterally a bit and twist my bottom forearm to the max which gives me a natural '40°' . If its 18" deep I go for about an 8" mouth. Once I set I go to the Dogs obviously. If it looks like a miss more than an inch and a quarter then I'll go back into the top and bottom out again and reset then 'lock up' again. Once I get close a will sight through the top cut and cut until I think it's time to go back into my top cut reference point. them I stand so the corner of the mouth hits my midline. 
Every time I extend my top cut (aim cut) I pistol grip and cut the bottom some more.
Sometimes it takes 3-4 times ...maybe it could take 7 times if I'm shallow but there won't be bypass cuts. If you don't have a lock in point like an ankle of Hip then you lock your body and come back to a joint lock or where its anatomically correct.

I'm concerned about you percentage rate.
 because it's sounds better than mine. lol. I showed a guy and he had the best U/C's I have ever seen in my life and he said that was the best thing he had ever learned. whatever! some people are just better Pool players eh. true dat!


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## bnmc98 (Nov 24, 2016)

I've never even tried to start and dog from the corner. I always start about 1/3 of the way around and cut in and work back up to the corner and then dog in. Probably because I learned humbolts on forest service sales.
At that time it was6" high stumps on the high side required with only a 10% screw up margin. I learned on pine and on those if I started from the corner I would run my tip in the dirt.


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## Westboastfaller (Nov 25, 2016)

bnmc98 said:


> I've never even tried to start and dog from the corner. I always start about 1/3 of the way around and cut in and work back up to the corner and then dog in. Probably because I learned humbolts on forest service sales.
> At that time it was6" high stumps on the high side required with only a 10% screw up margin. I learned on pine and on those if I started from the corner I would run my tip in the dirt.


 And here I had you pegged as a MT rocky mountain boy...lol.. I'm just right above you brother in AB
and will be for the winter. I'm Here cutting and burning Pine on contract. I was a snag faller for 10 years B4 probucton so I learned at a comfortable height.


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## chipper1 (Nov 25, 2016)

bnmc98 said:


> oh
> You guys probably know this one....
> another trick I do, especially if I am using a half wrap handle saw (because I hate back barring all day) or on steeps on the downhill side. I will make top cut, and pull it straight out tip the saw to the angle I want the undercut, and bore all the way across connecting the back of the first cut with the top of the bar. Then when I get through, I dog down, cut down and cut the wedge out. When you bore, the kerf in the first cut will actually act like a guide and hep you run the top of the bar along it.
> doesn't wear you out as much either.


Never heard that one.
Sure would be an incredible learning experience to be out with you guys even just one day.

Jamie what's your purpose in starting this thread.
Hope all is well up that way, be safe bro.


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## madhatte (Nov 25, 2016)

I'm a huge fan of the Humboldt rather than conventional face because it's so easy to clean up a face cut by looking down the back of the bar like a rifle, and push the chips away as you fix your mistakes. You can't do that with a Sag face because the bar is in the way. Also, start the face cut and the back cut from the same side. That makes everything way easier. Even if it's not level, it's at least parallel. Don't pound wedges if you don't have to -- plan cuts accordingly. Palm a wedge in to keep it from sitting back in the wind. Sharp chain is the first and best mod. Look up. Wear your damn PPE. I'm just a dumb forester and I know this stuff, so anybody can learn it.


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## Big_Wood (Nov 25, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> That's the only way to fly in bar size and bigger. Straight out the front and set fast and without the dogs. The secret is lock all your joints to your top cut aim. When I come out of the LEVEL top cut I only move my uper torso laterally a bit and twist my bottom forearm to the max which gives me a natural '40°' . If its 18" deep I go for about an 8" mouth. Once I set I go to the Dogs obviously. If it looks like a miss more than an inch and a quarter then I'll go back into the top and bottom out again and reset then 'lock up' again. Once I get close a will sight through the top cut and cut until I think it's time to go back into my top cut reference point. them I stand so the corner of the mouth hits my midline.
> Every time I extend my top cut (aim cut) I pistol grip and cut the bottom some more.
> Sometimes it takes 3-4 times ...maybe it could take 7 times if I'm shallow but there won't be bypass cuts. If you don't have a lock in point like an ankle of Hip then you lock your body and come back to a joint lock or where its anatomically correct.
> 
> ...



no need to be concerned, i was trained by old culls in big wood before i even worked my first day in the woods. probably why i was alone on my second day. those percentages are pretty dang close to accurate. WCB could come walk my quarter and i wouldn't even be concerned.


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## bitzer (Nov 25, 2016)

Usually from gun cut to bottom cut it's full throttle. I put it in the bottom cut(Humboldt) or top(conventional) beyond the corner. Like bnmc said not in the corner but out a ways then hit the far corner and saw it back to the near corner. It's really just a feel of where to put it and on goofy shaped trees I know almost immediately if I have to re adjust. Sometimes I will go months hitting the corners perfectly everytime and sometimes there's day I can't hit the far corner to save my life. Usually on those days something else is out of whack in my life.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 25, 2016)

****, I can barely get half of mine to hit in one day. But then I'm a little lazy and sloppy too.


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