# Stihl 3/8 pico vs pico mini chain for an MS170 saw



## tquinn (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm a homeowner with a couple of acres of woods on my lot. I've owned a Stihl 009 for decades, and recently bought a Stihl MS170 as a second saw. The original Stihl had a .050 in gage 3/8" picco chain and bar, and the new 170 has a .043 in gage pico mini chain and bar. Both came with 14 in bars. I'm thinking of buying a 16 in bar for the MS170. 

As I've compared these two saws, I've noted that the 009 chain seems much more aggressive and faster cutting than the MS170. I'm attributing this to the chain, as it seems like it take a lot more down pressure to get the MS170 to cut, and it cuts slower even when the saw is at full speed. I'm assuming that there isn't much difference in power between the two saws. 

This has surprised me, as the thicker bar and wider chain on the 009 cuts a wider kerf, and I would have thought that the narrower chain would have cut faster and easier. I have not ruled out that the MS170 chain might not be as sharp as the 009's, and I resharpened it tonight.

Are their any opinions on the pluses and minuses of these two chain types? Which cuts easier and faster when they are both in good condition. Any concerns about either type? I've noticed that the more flexible .043 bar seems to have more problems with binding and twisting when clearing. Is there any concern about going to the 16 inch long .050 in gage bar and chain on an MS170 (Stihl does make one that fits). 

Thanks in advance for any advice. 

Terry


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## XSKIER (Jun 10, 2013)

You'd better get your stop watch out to see the difference. All things being equal, PMMN, PMC, and PS3 saw chain will all cut about the same on your saw. .050 will be a little more durable. Oregon 90S is .043" gauge chain with larger cutters than PMMN. Good luck!

[video=youtube_share;g2c2eht3UoU]http://youtu.be/g2c2eht3UoU[/video]


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## o8f150 (Jun 10, 2013)

here is my ms170,,, has the 50 gauge chain and also a wt215 carb along with a MM

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Sr4oqOVyjfE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## Franny K (Jun 10, 2013)

The pole saw chain, the 0.043 gauge drive link one probably is designed to cut smoother. There are less choices and less length of the cutter and less thickness of the tie straps.

If your bars are interchangeable just go and buy two new loops and decide for yourself using the same saw. But you will have to choose picco micro or picco super for the .050 one or get three loops. That is only staying with Stihl chain.


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## tquinn (Jun 11, 2013)

XSKIER said:


> You'd better get your stop watch out to see the difference. All things being equal, PMMN, PMC, and PS3 saw chain will all cut about the same on your saw. .050 will be a little more durable. Oregon 90S is .043" gauge chain with larger cutters than PMMN. Good luck!




Thanks for that information. I guess I'll have a chance to confirm that, now that I resharpened my pico micro mini (.043) chain on the MS170, to the picco micro (.050) on the 009.

I'll report back when that is done.

Terry


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## tquinn (Jun 11, 2013)

o8f150 said:


> here is my ms170,,, has the 50 gauge chain and also a wt215 carb along with a MM
> 
> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Sr4oqOVyjfE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>





Thanks for your response. That seems to do quite well. I assume from context that the wt215 is a larger than stock carburetor. I'm still stock. 

Did you see any difference in cutting between the wider guage chain and the stock .043?

Terry


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## tquinn (Jun 11, 2013)

Franny K said:


> The pole saw chain, the 0.043 gauge drive link one probably is designed to cut smoother. There are less choices and less length of the cutter and less thickness of the tie straps.
> 
> If your bars are interchangeable just go and buy two new loops and decide for yourself using the same saw. But you will have to choose picco micro or picco super for the .050 one or get three loops. That is only staying with Stihl chain.




Thanks for the input. 

The biggest difference I note compared to the pico micro is how much wider the cutter is than the pmm. It seems like the pmm would cut faster for the same horspower because it makes a narrower kerf. But so far, I haven't seen that 

I just need to decide which system to use when I buy a new 16 inch bar. 

Terry


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## z71mike (Jun 11, 2013)

Choose the one that your dealer supplies more of and for a better price. Then, get the same chain for both saws. Easier to manage logistically and you may need to swap at times.


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## o8f150 (Jun 11, 2013)

tquinn said:


> Thanks for your response. That seems to do quite well. I assume from context that the wt215 is a larger than stock carburetor. I'm still stock.
> 
> Did you see any difference in cutting between the wider guage chain and the stock .043?
> 
> Terry



the cutters are the same its the drivers that are a tad wider,,, the wt215 is the same size carb as the factory,, its a fully adjustable carb


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## T0RN4D0 (Jun 11, 2013)

Also, i wouldn't recommend you to get a 16" for the 170 unless you really need the extra reach. 16" is 50cc saw territory imo.


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## tquinn (Jun 11, 2013)

o8f150 said:


> the cutters are the same its the drivers that are a tad wider,,, the wt215 is the same size carb as the factory,, its a fully adjustable carb



I'm wondering if we are talking the same thing. The cutters are dramatically different in height and width. Here is a side-by-side picture:

View attachment 299681


Click photo to blow it up.


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## tquinn (Jun 11, 2013)

T0RN4D0 said:


> Also, i wouldn't recommend you to get a 16" for the 170 unless you really need the extra reach. 16" is 50cc saw territory imo.



On a few rare occasions, I've had to cut large logs, where a 14 inch bare barely made it, cutting from both sides. Once I had to borrow a neighbor's saw, so I thought I might get a little longer one, especially if I'm going to change to the bigger tooth chain.

Are their downsides to having 2 more inches in bar length when I normally would not be using it? Does the extra length itself hurt saw performance when cutting smaller wood?

Terry

(I've used chainsaws for a long time, but obviously I'm not very knowledgeable about these kind of details).


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## Franny K (Jun 11, 2013)

Is this thread supposed to be limited to stihl chain or just in general.

There are Carlton chains that to me seem to be exactly the same cutters with different thickness drive links but generally the cutters are smaller on the 0.043

I put a picture of from top to bottom 63ps3 a chisel .050, then 63pm3 a .050 semi chisel in the middle, and the mini picco 61pmm3 on the bottom.

What I just noticed is the mini one to me the pole saw one is quite a bit lower profile, ie the edge is closer to the bar rail. The chisel one might be a bit lower profile than the one in the middle would really have to mount on a bar and measure.

The husky h35 has smaller cutters than the Oregon vxl if you want to look at brand x same gauge drive link.

If you count the drive links and do the arithmetic there is about an inch and a half difference between a 14 and sixteen inch bar. 52 to 56 for normal 51 to 55 for Stihl but if you use the seven tooth rim sprocket probably 52 to 56 like normal.


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## Karl Robbers (Jun 11, 2013)

tquinn said:


> On a few rare occasions, I've had to cut large logs, where a 14 inch bare barely made it, cutting from both sides. Once I had to borrow a neighbor's saw, so I thought I might get a little longer one, especially if I'm going to change to the bigger tooth chain.
> 
> Are their downsides to having 2 more inches in bar length when I normally would not be using it? Does the extra length itself hurt saw performance when cutting smaller wood?
> 
> ...


Theoretically, the extra 2" will mean more drag from the chain. Practically, I don't know how much difference you would notice.
I personally would put no more than a 14" on that saw, but I have plenty of larger saws when required.
If you truly need the extra reach of a 16" then go for it, but make sure that you keep your chains good and sharp and be aware that when fully buried, that little saw will be working hard.


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## tquinn (Jun 11, 2013)

Karl Robbers said:


> If you truly need the extra reach of a 16" then go for it, but make sure that you keep your chains good and sharp and be aware that when fully buried, that little saw will be working hard.



I do understand that. These are small saws that on rare occasions I use for a medium application, like felling a tree or making the last few cuts on the stump. I try to avoid overloading the engine by rolling the saw around the cut so that it doesn't load all the teeth at once. 

Terry


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## Fish (Jun 11, 2013)

tquinn said:


> I'm a homeowner with a couple of acres of woods on my lot. I've owned a Stihl 009 for decades, and recently bought a Stihl MS170 as a second saw. The original Stihl had a .050 in gage 3/8" picco chain and bar, and the new 170 has a .043 in gage pico mini chain and bar. Both came with 14 in bars. I'm thinking of buying a 16 in bar for the MS170.
> 
> As I've compared these two saws, I've noted that the 009 chain seems much more aggressive and faster cutting than the MS170. I'm attributing this to the chain, as it seems like it take a lot more down pressure to get the MS170 to cut, and it cuts slower even when the saw is at full speed. I'm assuming that there isn't much difference in power between the two saws.
> 
> ...



I usually recommend folks go with the .050 ga., as the cutters on the .043 are too thin and bend easily, and those that have switched seem to
agree with me.


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## tquinn (Jun 11, 2013)

Fish said:


> I usually recommend folks go with the .050 ga., as the cutters on the .043 are too thin and bend easily, and those that have switched seem to
> agree with me.



Thanks for the input. My limited experience supports yours. I haven't put many hours on the MS170 with the .043 bar, but I seem to have had more trouble with the chain and bar getting a little bent sideways (flexing and tending to bind the chain more) than I ever had with years of using the .050. But maybe I just had some bad exeriences with it early, as nobody else has reported that as being a problem. 

Terry


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## tquinn (Jun 17, 2013)

*Need to verify sharpening parameters for Picco and Picco Mini*

I'm going to follow Franny K's recommendation and try both the 3/8ths picco and pico mini on my MS170, and see how they compare. To do that I want to be sure I've sharpened the pico mini chain I have to the right specs. So I was looking through the owner's manuals of My 009 and MS170 saws, and I saw what might be conflicting information in the MS170 manual. 

So as best I can determine, the 3/8ths Picco chain, which has a 0.050 in gage, uses a filing angle of 35 degrees, although the 009 manual says for hardwood or frozen timber, to reduce that to 30 degrees. It also shows the depth gage setting as 0.65 mm (with a comment that it could be increased to 0.85 mm for cutting softwood in mild weather).

For the 3/8ths inch picco mini, which has the 0.043 in gage, the MS170 manual calls for a 30 degree filing angle. For the depth gage, it is not clear if they are recommending 0.45 mm or 0.65 mm depth gage setting. 

The confusion is that in some places I've heard terminology of "picco micro mini" which I've assumed matches a .043 inch gage chain type of PMM or PMMC3. Elsewhere I read references to PMN, which some people call "picco micro narrow." I don't know if this is different terminology for the same chain type, or two chain types. 

Related to that, in my MS170 saw manual, it refers to 3/8 PMN having a depth gage setting of 0.45 mm, and both a 3/8th PM and PMMC3 as each having 0.65 mm depth gage. So if PMN and PMMC3 are both describing picco micro mini, which of these two depth settings are correct? 

Thanks for any help in interpreting Stihl-speak.

Terry Quinn


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## XSKIER (Jun 17, 2013)

This PDF will help you have the sharpest saw chain in your neighborhood, and be more Stihl saw chain smart than anyone on AS:

http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/...s/STIHL-Sharp-Advice-Saw-Chain-Guide-Bars.pdf

The sharpening angles you need are always printed on the saw chain packaging, in the file guides' instructions, or with the depth gauge guide.


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## Fish (Jun 17, 2013)

tquinn said:


> Thanks for the input. My limited experience supports yours.
> 
> Terry



Well, I have been working on and selling this stuff for a while. If I get drug out on the sales floor, I recommend that they go with the .050 ga.
setup, they are usually pissed if they bring in their .043 gauge chain for sharpening and see that %90 of the cutters are bent, and to rectify the
problem will take a new bar along with a new chain...............

These guys are not doing timed cuts in a competition, but folks that want to cut up some small trees......


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## Fish (Jun 17, 2013)

XSKIER said:


> This PDF will help you have the sharpest saw chain in your neighborhood, and be more Stihl saw chain smart than anyone on AS:
> 
> http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/...s/STIHL-Sharp-Advice-Saw-Chain-Guide-Bars.pdf




Wow!!!! That is an interesting claim!!!!! If I understand it correctly.......


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## H 2 H (Jun 17, 2013)

o8 is the coffee table coaster making machine !


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## 7sleeper (Jun 17, 2013)

tquinn said:


> I'm a homeowner with a couple of acres of woods on my lot. I've owned a Stihl 009 for decades, and recently bought a Stihl MS170 as a second saw. The original Stihl had a .050 in gage 3/8" picco chain and bar, and the new 170 has a .043 in gage pico mini chain and bar. Both came with 14 in bars. I'm thinking of buying a 16 in bar for the MS170.
> 
> As I've compared these two saws, I've noted that the 009 chain seems much more aggressive and faster cutting than the MS170. I'm attributing this to the chain, as it seems like it* take a lot more down pressure to get the MS170 to cut*, and it cuts slower even when the saw is at full speed. I'm assuming that there isn't much difference in power between the two saws.
> 
> ...



How high are your rakers? Not sure it has a lot to do with the different chains. Just another perspective to look at. 

As has been said I wouldn't think a second about 16 inch on a 170. I would start thinking about a bigger saw. If you don't need it regularly you can begin with a Dolmar 420/421. But to be honest you won't pick up either of your other saws again.

7


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## Franny K (Jun 17, 2013)

tquinn said:


> I want to be sure I've sharpened the pico mini chain I have to the right specs. So I was looking through the owner's manuals of My 009 and MS170 saws, and I saw what might be conflicting information in the MS170 manual.
> 
> So as best I can determine, the 3/8ths Picco chain, which has a 0.050 in gage, uses a filing angle of 35 degrees, although the 009 manual says for hardwood or frozen timber, to reduce that to 30 degrees. It also shows the depth gage setting as 0.65 mm (with a comment that it could be increased to 0.85 mm for cutting softwood in mild weather).
> 
> ...



I think it has been on here that Stihl has changed their number and letter system over time.

If you would have followed my advice all the way and bought two new chains the most current specs are on a paper insert inside the package. I don't see the details you seek on the container I have in front of me. there is a, b, c, d, e to tune it up right. a is 30 degrees for all the picco except ripping.They have refused to sell me ripping picco or told me it isn't available just modify the chisel super one. You didn't ask about the b, and c values but they are the same for all the semi chisel, mirco chisel which is what you are dealing with. D is .025 the rakers but I really don't mess with that, maybe way at the end of the lifespan of the chain and it is used up shortly after that. E is the file diameter 5/32. The tricky thing is to keep something like one fifth of the file above the top plate or the dimension b gets wrong and inconsistent.

I have broken off teeth mostly on the Oregon .043 one with the bumper tie straps but don't seem to have bent any. Only once something didn't go as planned and I ruined about half a foot of chain which was immediately obvious.

Fran


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## CTYank (Jun 17, 2013)

Speaking of "stihl-speak" can we eschew that sort of surplusage? (from Sam Clemens)
Who benefits from that? Besides Waiblingen?

"Picco" "micro", what ghetto we talking?

How 'bout appending LP or NK to the pitch & gauge as applicable, and speak to all of us? Unless, of course, you insist on cutesy.

Yeah, keep it sharp, with .025" on the depth gauges. (These chains, unlike scratcher chains, do not have rakers. Long gone since chipper chain.)


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## Fish (Jun 17, 2013)

I just bought the Stihl Chainsaw head to fit on my trimmer, I will put the Oregon chain/bar on it, the 91vxl, and not look back, as I will not have to keep replacing chains that have bent or broken cutters.......

It is just me, I guess, I hate wasting money, and will not give anyone bogus advice....

Just me....


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## Franny K (Jun 17, 2013)

CTYank said:


> Yeah, keep it sharp, with .025" on the depth gauges. (These chains, unlike scratcher chains, do not have rakers. Long gone since chipper chain.)



You seem to be right the manual calls them depth gauges. The manual also converts 0.065mm to twenty six thousands and the sheet they put in the chain container converts it to twenty five.


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## ShaneLogs (Jun 17, 2013)

The WT215 carb is a good carb and will add some extra power to your MS170 but if you really want to crank some power out of it, do a muffler mod on it and sometimes you can find a big bore carb on EBay for sale. The big bore carbs on them don't have chokes on them so they are straight bored all the way through to the throttle body. They are real good and the gas goes through them good.


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## z71mike (Jun 17, 2013)

ShaneLogs said:


> The WT215 carb is a good carb and will add some extra power to your MS170 but if you really want to crank some power out of it, do a muffler mod on it and sometimes you can find a big bore carb on EBay for sale. The big bore carbs on them don't have chokes on them so they are straight bored all the way through to the throttle body. They are real good and the gas goes through them good.



Ummm. Big bore 170? Just buy a 260.


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## traktorz (Jun 18, 2013)

*Stihl MS 192 C-E using PMM3 only*

According to Stihl, the recommended chain for the MS 170/171/181/192 is only the PMM3 (Picco Micro Mini 3), nothing larger at all.
For the 44 link chain that fits on a 30 cm bar, it's the #3610 000 0044. The chain pitch here is 3/8"P and the gauge is 43 mil (1.1 mm).

Having used our MS 192 C-E for two years now, we're on the chain number three, and we are only considering running the PMM3 chain. We simply just would had bought the very wrong saw, if considering moving up to the larger PM3, PS or PS3 cahin types for these smaller saws. We had a need for a small, light and agile saw, and that original requirement hasn't changed a bit at all.

It's essential to keep these small chains very sharp, so frequent sharpening is definitely a must. Your sharpening skills comes with the necessary practise! You'll notice how fast the metal vanishes though, due to all the needed sharpening, and in the end of the chains life, the teeth are so short, they easily break off, if you aren't careful with maneuvering the saw during the cutting.

And yes, the rakers measure is 0.65mm for the PMM3, I suppose the previous 0.45mm is an obsolete figure for an older chain type. 

View attachment 300818


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## Franny K (Jun 18, 2013)

traktorz said:


> According to Stihl, the recommended chain for the MS 170/171/181/192 is only the PMM3 (Picco Micro Mini 3), nothing larger at all.
> For the 44 link chain that fits on a 30 cm bar, it's the #3610 000 0044. The chain pitch here is 3/8"P and the gauge is 43 mil (1.1 mm).
> 
> 
> ...



But why is that? Could that be the nose of the bar is smaller in diameter on the 0.043, the chain cuts smoother hence safer? I will give Stihl credit on the picco bars in the 0.050 they get green rating with more teeth on the nose than brand x.

It also logically to me mean more chain sales and bar sales later on.

Probably it is more that the 0.050 is a more robust chain and capable of more power hence what is used on the more powerful saws probably heavier playing into the safety and nose diameter above. Does any brand x even put the .043 chain on a top or rear handle saw?

Your attachment is suspect as to the only recommended chain for those models as the manual for the 251 clearly show a choice of 0.050 picco (four kinds, micro, duro, super, rip) and .063 gauge 0.325 which I don't know off hand the various choices of that.

Fran


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## tquinn (Jun 18, 2013)

traktorz said:


> According to Stihl, the recommended chain for the MS 170/171/181/192 is only the PMM3 (Picco Micro Mini 3), nothing larger at all.
> For the 44 link chain that fits on a 30 cm bar, it's the #3610 000 0044. The chain pitch here is 3/8"P and the gauge is 43 mil (1.1 mm).
> 
> View attachment 300818



On the specifications page in my owners manual for the MS 170, 180, it describes engine displacement and other engine specs for those two saws, and all other specs for them including weights for both saws. In the guide bar and Oilmatic chains sections, it lists both "Picco Micro Mini with 0.04 inch groove width, and Pico Micro with 0.05 in groove width.

Terry


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## Franny K (Jun 18, 2013)

tquinn said:


> On the specifications page in my owners manual for the MS 170, 180, it describes engine displacement and other engine specs for those two saws, and all other specs for them including weights for both saws. In the guide bar and Oilmatic chains sections, it lists both "Picco Micro Mini with 0.04 inch groove width, and Pico Micro with 0.05 in groove width.
> 
> Terry



http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/...s/ms-170-180-chain-saw-instruction-manual.pdf

If you look again it says recomended cutting attachment and it is 0.043 for the 170 and 0.050 for the 180. page 50 and 51 (not pdf page)


Here is the manual for the 250 among others. 

http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/...-210-230-250-chain-saw-instruction-manual.pdf

You see under cutting attachment it lists two choices for the 250. Page 60.

Stihl really marches to a different drummer so to speak with their business model in my opinion.


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## tquinn (Jun 18, 2013)

Franny K said:


> http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/...s/ms-170-180-chain-saw-instruction-manual.pdf
> 
> If you look again it says recomended cutting attachment and it is 0.043 for the 170 and 0.050 for the 180. page 50 and 51 (not pdf page)




In the manual that came with my MS170 saw (purchased May 2010) is shows both bar/chain combinations available for both saws. 

Click this image to blow it up: View attachment 300929


It sort of makes sense to have the smaller chain on the smaller displacement saw. Not knowing which owner's manual is newer, either Stihl started out more conservatively for the MS170, and opened it up to the Picco .050 later, or vice versa. 

And here is another link on this site with more debate about .043 vs .050 picco. http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/57502.htm

One other thing I noticed is that in my manual, they say nothing about a 16 inch bar, but they are shipping Stihl MS170s to the local Big R store with 16 inch .043 inch gage bars on them. One old Stihl Bar and Chain info sheet that came from a new chain box shows an MS170 being able to handle a 12 or 14 inch bar with picco .050 inch chain, or a 12, 14, or 16 inch bar with the .043 picco mini. 

If nothing else, Stihl varies all over the place with their specifications, depending on which Stihl document you pick up. 

I'll let you know what my results are after I run the MS170 with both .043 and .050 chain/bar combinations at 14 inch length. From that I'll decide what to do if I want to go to the 16 inch bar. 

Terry


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## casual cutter (Jun 19, 2013)

Not sure if it's area specific, but MS170's have left the dealer with 16" .050 Picco chains and bars installed. I bought mine new about two years ago with that combo installed, and the Stihl sticker on the chain brake/hand guard does include this bar/chain combo for the saw...


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## z71mike (Jun 19, 2013)

I think you guys are focusing too much on specs. If it fits, it fits. If someone on here is running a certain b/c combo, you know it'll fit.


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## tquinn (Jun 19, 2013)

casual cutter said:


> Not sure if it's area specific, but MS170's have left the dealer with 16" .050 Picco chains and bars installed. I bought mine new about two years ago with that combo installed, and the Stihl sticker on the chain brake/hand guard does include this bar/chain combo for the saw...



Dear Casual,

That is the direction I'm leaning. Have you had any good or bad experiences with that combination? 

From reading comments on this site, there seem to be varying opinions about .043 vs .050 Picco, especially on an MS170 and with a 16 in bar. Some people prefer the 0.050 chain and bar for its ruggedness, and I've already experienced issues along that line with my .043 equipped MS170, that I never experienced with my .050 equipped Stihl 009. Others suggest that an MS170 will be overworked with a 16 in bar and .050 chain.

Your firsthand experience with a .050 Picco and 16 inch bar on an MS170 would be very valuable. 

Thank you in advance,

Terry


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## casual cutter (Jun 19, 2013)

Terry, for me the combination works fine. It is, after all, mainly a limbing saw. A couple of inches more reach with a sturdy Made in Germany Rollomatic E suits my needs. Not to mention more chain options in .050 Picco...

Of course, I will probably never bury this bar fully into timber, but I probably wouldn't bury even a 14" bar with this saw... It's just not what they're meant to do. For serious logging, the MS 170 just isn't what the doctor ordered.

Get the 16" Rollomatic E .050. It's durable, has less of the "anti-kickback" radius of the front sprocket (read: larger bar sprocket), and with a good chain will make for a good, long lasting cutter.

Keep in mind that I'm not all about the quick cuts... As a casual cutter, sometimes I just like to stop and smell the fumes:msp_biggrin:


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## tquinn (Jun 19, 2013)

casual cutter said:


> Keep in mind that I'm not all about the quick cuts... As a casual cutter, sometimes I just like to stop and smell the fumes:msp_biggrin:



Dear Casual,

Thanks for the information. That sounds like just what I need. 

Terry


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## Fish (Jun 19, 2013)

One of my customers I even equipped the saw with a 14" .050 hardnose bar, and he absolutely loves it.

Yes, a year or two ago Stihl started selling the saws with a 16" .043 ga. setup, to stand up next to the little Huskies.


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## Franny K (Jun 19, 2013)

I was going to try and adapt some brand x bars to fit my pole saw to experiment on the same saw but settled for just cutting in the same piece of cedar fence post. In the picture I matched the bar height so the difference in profile it two. 61pmm3, H35 (in loop husqvarna perhaps in bulk is longer cutter), 63pm3. That thin chain on the pole saw does seem to produce the smoothest result.


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## tquinn (Sep 11, 2013)

*Results of comparison of cutting speed, .043 vs. .050 chain on MS170.*

I finally had time to get this done.

There are a lot of views here about whether the .043 picco micro chain is as good for cutting as the .050 pico chain. Theoretically, one might think that the .043 would be faster, because it cuts a narrower kerf (less wood cut). Others like the .050 for its strength.

Someone suggested that I buy new Stihl chains for this test. I did better than that. I sharpened two chains that were almost new to the best I could do. While new Stihl might have some special sharpening, I'm interested in what will happen with chains I've sharpened. The sharpener I used is a clamp on the bar one from Craftsman, similar in design to the one shown on the Stihl sharpening manual cover. I also bought a Stihl gage to file the depth gages correctly. 

I did the test on a 4 inch diameter white oak tree that was felled about 14 months ago, so it was nice and dry. I tried the .043 picco micro first, and it cut okay until it got about 1 and 1/2 inches deep, and then it struggled to cut. I had to roll the saw around the tree continuously to get it to cut all the way through. The .050 inch picco chain cut evenly and right through the tree.

Here is the link to the video.



The .043 cut much slower and struggled more than the .050. The .043 took much longer than twice as long as the .050 to cut this log. 

I've also had much more bad experience with the chain getting derailed with the .043 than the .050. 

All and all, I don't think it is even close. The .050 picco is more durable, and cuts much faster than the .043 picco micro, on an MS170 saw as shown in the video. I got the same results on an 009 where I also tried the comparison. 

Terry


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## tquinn (Sep 29, 2013)

tquinn said:


> I finally had time to get this done.
> 
> There are a lot of views here about whether the .043 picco micro chain is as good for cutting as the .050 pico chain. Theoretically, one might think that the .043 would be faster, because it cuts a narrower kerf (less wood cut). Others like the .050 for its strength.
> 
> ...



Something wrong with the link to the video above. This may work now:

Stihl Saw Chain Comparison short - YouTube


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## XSKIER (Sep 30, 2013)

Nice work, but I disagree. You'd better get out your stop watch for this one...

[video=youtube_share;g2c2eht3UoU]http://youtu.be/g2c2eht3UoU[/video]


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## AKDoug (Oct 1, 2013)

There is no way that .043 chain was sharp. Here is a freshly sharpened MS180 running the old school .043" picco mini safety chain (bent over rakers) in 14" of birch. It's not really fast, but it really didn't slow down either.

MS 180 - YouTube

I can't embed with the current hacking situation.


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## treesmith (Oct 2, 2013)

I found that the 3/8 .043 cut a lot quicker than .050 in Aussie wood on an ms170, both 12" Stihl b/c. It seemed underpowered in hardwood with .050.
After fitting the 215 adj carb and opening muffler it moved onto the .050 12" fulltime, it cuts as fast and stays sharp longer, the .043 is just too lightweight for anything serious but does cut fast in clean wood. I was under the impression that 0.45mm was the .043 depth gauge and 0.65mm/25thou" for the bigger chains


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