# are climbers underpaid in the states?



## imagineero (Mar 8, 2013)

4 or 5 years ago I was dating a girl pretty seriously and she went off to do an MBA in NH. I thought long and hard about following her there, but I never got my head around getting a visa. I've been looking through the ads for climbers lately in the states again for no real reason, and I can't believe how low the pay rates are. Is this for real? Are qualified climbers with their own gear and a CDL really getting $15-$20/hr? Even less in some cases?

It just blows my mind. Unless the cost of living is waaaaaaay cheaper than it is in aus or something. I can only think that a dollar buys a lot more in the states than it does here if that's a half way decent wage. I know you guys get your gas cheaper, and I know take out food is a lot cheaper too, so maybe you get your rent, groceries etc cheaper than we do dollar for dollar and it makes up for it? Here in aus, an unqualified groundie makes $15/hr, and a semi qualified groundie makes $20. A good climber makes about $400~$500 a day. What gives?

Shaun


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## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 8, 2013)

I think treemanDan said it best when he said we are working for 1985 wages. 

The economy is crap here, and there is tons of people that will do tree work for penny's on the dollar for what they should be charging. 
There is a bigger company that says they won't lose a job. They undercut prices so much that there is no way they make money on some jobs. I bid a job last year that thought I bid low at $3800 for removing 8 trees and grinding 9 stumps. They did the job for $1200. Funny thing is I think its finally catching up to them because I see there trucks and chippers that aren't very old for sale in tree trader a lot.


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## timberland ts (Mar 8, 2013)

I was making 25/hr with health insurance when i went full time on my own. Thats about as high as i know in this area. Contrct climbing is different. I usually got 50/75 per hr depending on the gear i brought. 

You are right about prices there are two big guys around here that are allways low balling. Five companies bid a job last fall four of us were right around eight grand one guy came in at 3500. 29 trees half were 80' 24" pines that nothing could be dropped and the stumps had to be done. Guy was in there with 7 pieces of equipment 8 guys for 4 days on the trees and three on the stumps.


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## mckeetree (Mar 8, 2013)

2treeornot2tree said:


> there is tons of people that will do tree work for penny's on the dollar for what they should be charging.




That is the bottom line problem here.


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## AirBorneMutha (Mar 8, 2013)

timberland ts said:


> I was making 25/hr with health insurance when i went full time on my own. Thats about as high as i know in this area. Contrct climbing is different. I usually got 50/75 per hr depending on the gear i brought.
> 
> You are right about prices there are two big guys around here that are allways low balling. Five companies bid a job last fall four of us were right around eight grand one guy came in at 3500. 29 trees half were 80' 24" pines that nothing could be dropped and the stumps had to be done. Guy was in there with 7 pieces of equipment 8 guys for 4 days on the trees and three on the stumps.



If tree work was a register trade like plumbing and electrical then maybe their would be a standard rate for climbers. I don't think tree co.s would be charging the price they do if they had to pay climbers top wages. If climbers were payed better than the business wouldn't be flooded with gypsy tree services. Anyone who has worked for a company and went on his own did it primarily for one reason, to make better money. Climbing day in and day out on a production level beats the hell out of ya, who wants to do that for $20hr when you can do it for triple the money and climb a couple day a week.


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## timberland ts (Mar 8, 2013)

So true. Its been slow this winter but i make more working two days a week for my self then i did five for the company. Only down side is the honey do list gets bigger!


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## jsdogs1 (Mar 8, 2013)

My top guys are making between $80-90k per year
That's pretty good, no?


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## beastmaster (Mar 8, 2013)

First tree(well it was a palm)I ever climbed back in 1978 or so I was paid 100.00. Now there are a hundred guys that would do it for 50.00 bucks. I know a union painter who makes 35.00 an hour, A backhoe operator who makes upwards of 50.00 an hour. Yet the average tree climber make 15 to 20 an hour.
My Wife makes close to 60,000.00 a year as a computer programer, I make maybe 35,000 some times more some times less. Plus have to maintain and update all my equipment. 
I personally think there are a lot of greedy owner/operators out there. Then there is workmens comp. but I'm not so sure most would pay more even if they didn't pay out a lot for workers comp. Plus we have here in So. Calif. A large supply of illegal that'll work their ass off for 12.00 an hour and are as good as the Company's they work for want them to be.
There are so many people doing trees, anyone with a pick-up and a saw is a tree service. They have no overhead, and will do your tree, build a block wall fence, and mow your yard for almost nothing.
One of my neighbors just had his tree done. I offered to do it for a little more then the cost of my dump fees, he had a crew come in hat rack the tree and haul away the brush at a lower price. Defies logic.
I hate government involvement, but there should be some kind of professional requirement for tree work to weed out the chop and go guys. You have to ask your self, why would anyone chose this as a career. There is no future in it.
This is a dangerus profession, and proper tree care takes skill and knowledge, yet you can get paid better at Wal-Mart and gets benefits.


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## stltreedr (Mar 8, 2013)

The Union foremen that work for me at the Utility are making about $27/hr in the St. Louis Metro area- Pay for my private foremen ranges from about $20-$30/ hr. A guy that climbs but doesn't run a crew would make $20-25 working for me. That being said, If I can't pay my guys well, I won't work; and I miss some contracts because they won't allow for me to pay a decent wage. 

The St. Louis area has a pretty low cost of living, especially when comparing to the east and west coast. I could only imagine that east coast workers of the same caliber are going to have to make more. 

Come on out to the states for a visit, you'd probably like it. I'm sure somebody on AS would take you out for a beer.


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## crae10 (Mar 8, 2013)

*If you could go back?*

I dont want to start another thread but for anyone visiting this one if you could go back knowing what our pay was going to be would you choose a different route and do something different? And is it worth trying to start your own professional company these days?


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## timberland ts (Mar 8, 2013)

I dont regret it at all. When i started up i had all my equipment paid for, had 20k of work lined up and some cash in the bank. Dont have caviar taste with a beer budget.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 8, 2013)

I hear alot of guys #####ing about undercutting , do your job with quality for a fair price , and you will ride this out just fine .... I do zero advertising , zero ass kissing , do an estimate and leave the ball In there court . I never cold call , yet at the end of the week we did enough to pay ourselves and pay for the necessities of life . As far as treeclimbers are concerned , do they deserve more then a hard working ground guy ..... That's the question .


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## mckeetree (Mar 8, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> I hear alot of guys #####ing about undercutting , do your job with quality for a fair price , and you will ride this out just fine .... I do zero advertising , zero ass kissing , do an estimate and leave the ball In there court . I never cold call , yet at the end of the week we did enough to pay ourselves and pay for the necessities of life . As far as treeclimbers are concerned , do they deserve more then a hard working ground guy ..... That's the question .



No, the question is has ANYTHING you have EVER posted here made a lick of sense.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 9, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> No, the question is has ANYTHING you have EVER posted here made a lick of sense.



Why ? I guess your the kinda of guy who #####es and moans about competition as well . Seems like everything I say is bitter apple to you .... Whatever though we my as well be on different planets . So stay safe out there .


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## beastmaster (Mar 9, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> As far as treeclimbers are concerned , do they deserve more then a hard working ground guy ..... That's the question .



I know Im probably a little bias, but the climbers are the ones who bring in the money, crawl out to the ends of big trees, and climb up trees deemed to dangerous to stay. Groundsmen wouldn't have a job if not for the climbers. 
I think a top of the line groundsmen (they're far and few between)who can help set up rigging, read the climber's mind and be one step ahead of him, can tie knots, and is just quick to figure things out and then does what has to be done, is worth as much as some climbers, but if he can do all that, he'd probably be foremen.
I know groundmen have a hard thankless job, but you don't meet a lot of professional groundsmen.
Anyway that is just my opinon, I'm sure a groundmen would feel different.


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## Naked Arborist (Mar 9, 2013)

*Yes and No but pay me mo' money...*



treeclimber101 said:


> I hear alot of guys #####ing about undercutting , do your job with quality for a fair price , and you will ride this out just fine .... I do zero advertising , zero ass kissing , do an estimate and leave the ball In there court . I never cold call , yet at the end of the week we did enough to pay ourselves and pay for the necessities of life . As far as treeclimbers are concerned , do they deserve more then a hard working ground guy ..... That's the question .



It's all relative when you work both. A tree company and a contract climber.

I'm right with Ed on 90% of that paragraph. Did we make the ends meet? Most weeks yes, but not all. Do we deserve more pay? YES and No. It all depends on the QUALITY of the worker and his skill set. I supply everything I need to contract climb and have more than needed. Does the truck(s), chipper, trailers, tools, so on and so forth get my foot in the door for more pay? Let's hope so. I do hope the ten+ G's in saws and such supports that. I'm a big zero just like you when it comes to kiss ass, paid advertizing, no cold calls and I have very little wiggle room on the price. Most days I prefer to climb and cut for now. Still doing some start to finish "cherry picking" when I want to. Every climber has his limits for one reason or another so the pay does equal the investment, tools, maintenance, quality, time and risk. I know I'm in the top 30% so 30 is better than 40 here  I do consider myself well paid or I just move on down the road to the next one, case closed. Besides all that I build a pretty mean ass saw, tot tot lol. I like to climb because it is a personal challenge for me. You can never ever make the same cut twice, cut down or trim the same exact tree in the same place, the same way ever again. Every single cut is unique. Could do twenty or thirty different things to make ends meet but I like the thinking mans rush that comes with the upper territory.

The best ground guy I've ever had/have was an accomplished, good and SAFE climber. He knows whats up, how to do and what needs to be done. It's amazing what can be done with basic stuff and two guys who know the top and bottom of tree work. Those days with a third or fourth good ground guy, some light hearted ball busting are just magic, profitable and a lot of fun.


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## mckeetree (Mar 9, 2013)

crae10 said:


> I dont want to start another thread but for anyone visiting this one if you could go back knowing what our pay was going to be would you choose a different route and do something different? And is it worth trying to start your own professional company these days?



If I knew 27 years ago when I went into business for myself what I know now I wouldn't have touched the tree business with a ten foot pole.


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## Damie236 (Mar 9, 2013)

Here in Barbados it's the same way with a whole lot of under cutting but if you're dedicated, have a passion and willing to learn and improve on your skills you'll come out on top. That being said I'm sure there is a whole lot of competition out there but I'm willing to bet that 80 percent of this competition isn't really good competition. Professionalism and quality of work is key to landing future jobs. I rate myself as a top quality climber/manager so are my groundies so I charge to suit me and my men's worth. Good work deserves and should equal good pay!! Main thing is you need to stand out from the cowboys.


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## slice'N'dice'M (Mar 9, 2013)

*Damn straight !*



AirBorneMutha said:


> If tree work was a register trade like plumbing and electrical then maybe their would be a standard rate for climbers. I don't think tree co.s would be charging the price they do if they had to pay climbers top wages. If climbers were payed better than the business wouldn't be flooded with gypsy tree services. Anyone who has worked for a company and went on his own did it primarily for one reason, to make better money. Climbing day in and day out on a production level beats the hell out of ya, who wants to do that for $20hr when you can do it for triple the money and climb a couple day a week.



Smashing big removals five days out of the week for a $600-$700 pay check gets old quick. I make that in a day now. Although winters are scary. I wish I was making $600-$700 a week now! AirBornMutha Climbs Anotha!


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## highlife (Mar 9, 2013)

Shaun, check out the "the daily rate in the southeast" post as well as hourly v.s salary or maybe you have and it was the catalyst for this post. I was seriously thinking of moving to AU. It was heartbreaking to find out what the companies were offering here in the south. I was getting paid the same running a landscape crew sitting on a zero turn mower all day as to what most were offering to do hazardous removals. It took me a couple of days of phone calls, a little creativity and now I'm getting what I deserve to get paid. $25.oo to climb some 30-40 an hour as a sub. If the guy that i was working for was smart he would have paid me a fair wage instead of low wage slave. I just don't get how a climber with 2 years experience In AU or Canada starts at 25.oo- 30.00 and here in the south 15.


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## fraidofheights (Mar 9, 2013)

*Maybe you guys have an immigration problem...*

Jeez, I'm the last one to be labeled racist- but if we had people coming to Canada to do tree work for 12.00 per hour, I'd be calling my MP.

I paid my groundman, to start, 20.00 per hour which is a fair wage in these parts. He knew his knots okay, was able to set up a Port-a-Wrap, and didn't stand around waiting to be told what to do.

I have a little chipper (Bandit 65xp), a pickup and chip box, and a groundman, and I net about 600.00 per day (after fuel, wages..etc). I don't know the exacts (wife does) but we but 25% back into the business to replace the equipment and gear. I climb exclusively, but I'm not the greatest climber ever. I'm just okay. I work with one groundie, and we do small jobs. Sell firewood in the winter, and swing tongs on the oil rigs. Been doing forestry, tree work, and environmental work for about 5 years.

Our comp is 4.0% and our insurance is 89.00 per month. Rent is 300 (for 1/2 acre, fenced and secured) and I sell my chips. I work about 120 days of trees- the rest is in the oil patch. The company pays about 12% taxes (we pay ourselves in dividends- it's works very well).

I think the problem in the states is that you let people come in to the country that will work for 3rd World Wages - and work hard. We don't have that here-- maybe because the cold frighten's them away? Most tree people are white- which sounds awful, I suppose, but it seems like the immigrants in this country are working in convenience stores or going to medical school.

They're certainly not hanging around in trees.

So, yeah. though I think the US is a really, really great country (once tried to move to New Hampshire)... move to Canada. Or sort out the immigrant problem (not the immigrants- but their abuse by employers and/or their willingness to work for nothing).


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## mckeetree (Mar 9, 2013)

fraidofheights said:


> I think the problem in the states is that you let people come in to the country that will work for 3rd World Wages



Well, you have a good grip on a big part of the problem...illegal third worlders working for nothing. It's a HUGE problem in the U.S.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 9, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> Well, you have a good grip on a big part of the problem...illegal third worlders working for nothing. It's a HUGE problem in the U.S.



Wahhhhhhhhhh....... Here we go with that old rhetoric again from McKee


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## mckeetree (Mar 9, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> Wahhhhhhhhhh....... Here we go with that old rhetoric again from McKee



Have you ever heard that old "If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem." That kinda fits you.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 10, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> Have you ever heard that old "If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem." That kinda fits you.



I am sure you've heard the saying ... No one likes a cry baby !


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## lxt (Mar 10, 2013)

im thinking its location in most cases, right now in jersey I imagine the ability to make good money is there prolly parts of NY too, but many states have an abundance of non qualified "shouldnt be in biz" tree companies. some on here bust my balls & call me a cable slinger & hey some days I do sling cable but theres way more to it than that, I miss the tree biz!! I still do it part time & really dont care if I get the job sometimes cause im already making a damn good buck.

But when I do get the job im making what I feel we/I should be making, if you have your own tree company & you`re not pulling in 6 figures a year theres something wrong!!!! the writing was on the wall for me & I made a move, I really didnt want to but hey Im not gonna lower my standards for some 2 bit hack, that bought some white washed bucket truck, conforms & adheres to no laws, flies under the radar, has to paint his equipment (lipstick on a pig) & thinks if he makes $600 a week he did good.

those guys & im sure theres many on here can ruin their bodies, work their nuts off, enjoy no benefits, work all summer 10-12hrs a day, never see their wife or children & pray every winter that they escrowed enough money to see them through! YEAH good luck with that, Ill continue to "sling wire" LOL


LXT...........


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## Pelorus (Mar 10, 2013)

lxt said:


> im sure theres many on here can ruin their bodies, work their nuts off, enjoy no benefits, work all summer 10-12hrs a day, never see their wife or children & pray every winter that they escrowed enough money to see them through!
> LXT...........




Hey! That's me you're talkin' about! But Spring is in the air, and the nuts have recuperated enough that they will hopefully last through another season of brutality.


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## Pelorus (Mar 10, 2013)

Someday soon, I will start being referred to as: "Decrepit of the Trees". 
Just like the Royal Caribbean cruise line. :msp_rolleyes:


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## StrataTree (Mar 11, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> Someday soon, I will start being referred to as: "Decrepit of the Trees".
> Just like the Royal Caribbean cruise line. :msp_rolleyes:



Lol...Come August ill be limpin along, leanin to one side, running on one engine, stinking, and spewing crap too. Or someone I know will be...

Oh, and for a less than fair wage and with a smile on my face.


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## Stihl n Wood (Mar 11, 2013)

When it comes down to it, for me its about being happy. I'm a climber and work for a good company and make decent money. Work right through these crappy New England winters. When summer hits its climbing for myself on weekends making great money and all week at my normal rate. But I'm happy in the trees! Maybe I should make more than 60k? Probably but that's on paper off paper/weekend climbs adds up too. I've had many crappy jobs making more. But I like climbing,running saws, doing tough removals that take stradigy. Its a risky business for all of us alike. Climbing or on the ground. If tree work went union we'd all make the same. Bottom line for me is waking up to put my boots on not dreding going to work. Like they say, its not all about money....


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## MCW (Mar 12, 2013)

imagineero said:


> A good climber makes about $400~$500 a day.
> 
> Shaun



Hi Shaun.
Is the $400-500 a day as a contract climber? I've dealt with a few contract climbers in Melbourne and they were on nowhere near that amount of money. I suppose it depends on your competition. In my area a good climber could make a fortune as nobody does it here. In Melbourne where every man and their dog climbs I'm sure the market is flooded. Apparently Perth is bad too according to a few arborists I've dealt with there.
The best wage I heard from a qualified Melbourne arborist was $65,000 a year and to me that didn't seem like anywhere near enough. There are a hell of a lot running around calling themselves arborists too without any qualifications and this was the biggest complaint with the guys I've dealt with in Melbourne - too many weekend warriors and another complaint was that their main tree insurance company was giving insurance to absolutely anybody. If you had a chainsaw you were in!
Anyway mate take care and I gather you're still swinging around by your nuts in trees  I'll stick to ground falling.
Matt


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## StrataTree (Mar 12, 2013)

Stihl n Wood, you hit the nail on the head. I love what I do. Had a lot of crappy jobs that I hated going to. When I go to work now, I'm happy. Never know what the day will be like. Always a challenge. Always interesting. Would I like more $? Sure! Would I want a different job? No thanks. A side job or two can make up for the lousy hourly rate I make during the week. If I was all about the $ I could probably find another company to work for and squeak out a little better wage, but I like the guys I work with everyday and I like my greedy boss. And there's a lot to be said for that! So cheers, here's to 4:00 pm and Fridays!


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## Stihl n Wood (Mar 12, 2013)

I hear ya! If I was stuck behind a desk looking out the window it wouldn't be long before I jumped! They can all have that crap. I was meant to be outside breathing in the fine air. That's what I love about tree work too. Everyday is different and brings a new challange. Imagine doing the same thing over and over again? No way....does the winters suck??? Some days its freezing and not the best but dress right and not so bad here. But spring is right here and we'll be making hay while the sun shines and filling our pockets right up! And there's nothing better than ice cold beer after a long hard day throwing chips....


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## mr. holden wood (Mar 12, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> Wahhhhhhhhhh....... Here we go with that old rhetoric again from McKee



Says the fat bucket worker from se canada. If you had any idea whats coming your way you'd be concerned. Not sure whats going on out there but the guys down south have started to get a bit of a feel for painting,landscape,drywall,construction etc. Its more reality then rhetoric.


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## CalTreeEquip (Mar 12, 2013)

imagineero said:


> 4 or 5 years ago I was dating a girl pretty seriously and she went off to do an MBA in NH. I thought long and hard about following her there, but I never got my head around getting a visa. I've been looking through the ads for climbers lately in the states again for no real reason, and I can't believe how low the pay rates are. Is this for real? Are qualified climbers with their own gear and a CDL really getting $15-$20/hr? Even less in some cases?
> 
> It just blows my mind. Unless the cost of living is waaaaaaay cheaper than it is in aus or something. I can only think that a dollar buys a lot more in the states than it does here if that's a half way decent wage. I know you guys get your gas cheaper, and I know take out food is a lot cheaper too, so maybe you get your rent, groceries etc cheaper than we do dollar for dollar and it makes up for it? Here in aus, an unqualified groundie makes $15/hr, and a semi qualified groundie makes $20. A good climber makes about $400~$500 a day. What gives?
> 
> Shaun



Everyone seems to be talking about conditions here. It is true this is a huge country. Some places $20 and hour goes a long way, other places it doesn't. Cost of living seems to dictate prevailing wages. This is true in Auz as well. My understanding is you all have much higher taxes, expenses, trucks, equipment and regulations. Import tariffs are real high making your cost of goods real high. And then you don't have the 10 million illegal immigrants dragging down wages. 
Now in California, last time I checked, $85 per hour per man was the norm for a fully licensed and insured tree crew. I don't know what climbers are getting paid but I think good groundmen are still between $15 and $20 which is where they were 10 years ago when I got out. I lend this entirely to immigrants who now dominate tree work. There are so many of them that there is no need to pay more since they all seem to be real happy with that kind of money and if one isn't there are 1000 more who would love to have the work.


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## mckeetree (Mar 13, 2013)

CalTreeEquip said:


> And then you don't have the 10 million illegal immigrants dragging down wages.



Dragging down everything. They have ruined the tree biz in many states. There are more in the neighborhood of 15,000,000 of them according to latest reports.


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## allamerican (Mar 13, 2013)

Predominantly non-illegals around the michigan ohio border, as far as arboricultural services go. There still out in the fields though. Maybe they have not discovered tree work yet. Please anyone around my area correct me if Im wrong. Around my area there are tree services around that have been around a while. But what gets me is some of the "reputable" tree services that have been around my area a while dont think its bad to hat rack and top trees for some reason. Botched trees all over. Someone from out west or east come on out here and show them how its done. Oh.... And hire me as 20/hr groundie at first and then let me prove myself as a 35/hr climber. Heck... Id even get jobs! By the way I do have a colored friend. thanks for the good read.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 13, 2013)

The thought of a trickle up economy has me baffled , please carry on , this thread has now taken a turn to hystericalville !


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## AirBorneMutha (Mar 13, 2013)

The thought of trickle down economics has me baffled. I worked for many rich people, they are some of the cheapest bastards around.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 13, 2013)

AirBorneMutha said:


> The thought of trickle down economics has me baffled. I worked for many rich people, they are some of the cheapest bastards around.



They are the people that have driven down this economy ! Not some poor bastard quite literally who wants a honest days work for an honest days pay ! The market pays what the worker can bear .


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 13, 2013)

AirBorneMutha said:


> The thought of trickle down economics has me baffled. I worked for many rich people, they are some of the cheapest bastards around.



Hi ABM,, I am not a bully,, but I want to ask you.
If you are baffled by 'trickle down', how do explain 'Trickle up,,?
You say you 'worked for many rich people, they are some of the cheapest bastards around.''
Question,,How do you think they got rich?,,
Jeff


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## CalTreeEquip (Mar 13, 2013)

*Can't we all just get along??*

Guys, lets not let this thread degenerate into the usual mayhem of our domestic political blame gaming and finger pointing. Really it gets so old.
There are economic realities to life and our brother from down-under asked a simple question.
So lets keep it simple and clean.
And if that doesn't work, blame the hippies.


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## Slvrmple72 (Mar 13, 2013)

AirBorneMutha said:


> If tree work was a register trade like plumbing and electrical then maybe their would be a standard rate for climbers. I don't think tree co.s would be charging the price they do if they had to pay climbers top wages. If climbers were payed better than the business wouldn't be flooded with gypsy tree services. Anyone who has worked for a company and went on his own did it primarily for one reason, to make better money. Climbing day in and day out on a production level beats the hell out of ya, who wants to do that for $20hr when you can do it for triple the money and climb a couple day a week.



Very true. They go out with good intentions and before you know it when work dries up they start cutting costs on minor stuff like insurance and workers comp. Almost as bad as the production climbers for larger outfits going out and doing sidework or buzzwork. I wil bite my tongue before I start an This Economy Suxs Rant...


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## mckeetree (Mar 13, 2013)

This thread is turning into two bit wannabees, class envy jackasses and bleeding heart illegal alien sympathizers and I don't have much use for any of the three.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 13, 2013)

*Must be your Marketing,,IDK.*

but it was a beautiful day,
Jeff :msp_rolleyes:


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## CalTreeEquip (Mar 14, 2013)

YEs it was. I planted a 15 gal Apricot tree in my backyard.


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## ROPECLIMBER (Mar 15, 2013)

I worked at Aspen for 18.00 per hour and the company, usually took in 1800-2500 for 2 climbers and a groundsman bucket truck and chipper per day, 
here in SA I am lucky to do 500-800 a day just me and a ground guy though but SA has a stagnated econnomy bunch of retires keep the ptices beat down, am tempted to go back to Colorado for the summer, cost of living is higher there so there 20 is the same as 15 here, but in 1987 I made 35k and diesel was .89-.96 a galln cigs were less than 2.00 and milk was under 2.00 so with inflation climbers are making 8.00 in 1987 money, 
Paul


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## Tree&Stump (Mar 15, 2013)

I hate to say it, but it does matter to most people who is selling them their tree services. And that main stream preference matters when you are trying to get strangers to feed you respectable prices for work. If they don't prefer you, they don't prefer to feed you a whole lot, so you don't make much per day anywhere. Try to find a retired tree service contractor to sell your jobs. He knows how to bid, and he knows how to say what matters to the clients.


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## freeweight (Mar 22, 2013)

i think u guys are thinking of big companies ,they pay crap ,climbers around here ,the cheapest i have heard is 2-250$ ..but a really good climber around here makes a 3rd of the whole job no crap either ,day workers make 100-150$ depending on job 

so yea i really couldnt see a HUGE company like asplundh or the like paying anything near any of the prices i listed .....unless u are with the company for 20 years or so


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 22, 2013)

freeweight said:


> i think u guys are thinking of big companies ,they pay crap ,climbers around here ,the cheapest i have heard is 2-250$ ..but a really good climber around here makes a 3rd of the whole job no crap either ,day workers make 100-150$ depending on job
> 
> so yea i really couldnt see a HUGE company like asplundh or the like paying anything near any of the prices i listed .....unless u are with the company for 20 years or so



Really?
Jeff opcorn:


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## Goose IBEW (Mar 22, 2013)

Any way you cut it, I think the tree industry is underpaid in general. A climber should pocket $25-$30/hr with a pension, annuity, health and welfare bennies, and some kind of vacation fund. I seriously doubt very many climbers have a package like that. 

I talked in length with a guy going out of business here in Jersey. He was actually proud to say his climber had come through the ranks and was "up to" $16.75/hr. I was stunned, I pay college kids near that much to rake and clean up.


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## AshTree (Mar 23, 2013)

*Yes We are all Underpaid... However in the US ... WOW, that is really something else.*

Big Cities are going to pay out better dollars to a climber generally, rural guys will make less and it's all about who you are.

Solid dependable climbers out in the GTA (Toronto Area) are generally making about 20-25 hr for a company. TOP dollar is 30 and yes some guys will make that out here is they are production oriented. That is in the upper tier of tree work. Groundsman make 15-20 and will do better if they have an upgrade license or are good with maintenance can occasionally sell work or are skilled with buckets or cranes. If your looking to keep a guy, and want to keep him and want him to be happy and not screw you around behind your back because your buying new bucket trucks while paying him nothing off the work he doing for you each day... Pay him fairly and keep him, unless its not worth it and you've got an abundance of skilled climbers to work with, which is rare.

A true professional is worth what we are dicussing here, but how many people are truly up to the standard of being called an 'Arborist' not simply a 'tree climber'? That is the key in the questions... Who is an "Arborist" a trained and skilled professional with the knowledge of proper tree care, PPE and proper safe methods for tree care and removal. Who is a "tree climber"? ... this guy Cookeville , TN - Tree Climbing , Trimming and felling a tree - YouTube is a tree climber, and owner of a tree company, appparently... this is the differenc. 

Yes, there are a lot of underpaid professionals out there, especially with guys this dumb out there making every one of us professionals cringe and wonder why we got into tree work in the first place. But I love what I do, and I am going to get up really early tommorrow and do it and the next day and the day after...


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## ropensaddle (Mar 23, 2013)

slice'N'dice'M said:


> Smashing big removals five days out of the week for a $600-$700 pay check gets old quick. I make that in a day now. Although winters are scary. I wish I was making $600-$700 a week now! AirBornMutha Climbs Anotha!



And your post nailed the problem people work just long enough to learn the basics and presto they start a business. I worked for a company some 25 years before finally and reluctantly starting mine. If I had life to do over I would likely just enroll in school and become a lobbyist or something very profitable:hmm3grin2orange:


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## ropensaddle (Mar 23, 2013)

ropensaddle said:


> And your post nailed the problem people work just long enough to learn the basics and presto they start a business. I worked for a company some 25 years before finally and reluctantly starting mine. If I had life to do over I would likely just enroll in school and become a lobbyist or something very profitable:hmm3grin2orange:



Oh and yes we are under-paid imo for instance huge project I did last summer 28 acres of tree work and de-vining split 3 ways well so 8k later I spent two days in hospital for heat induced kidney failure bill 16k! So from now on I sure hope a doctor or layer understands the huge oak over his swimming pool is worth 20k 

This is a risky job with the true cost of living I feel a small business like mine should bang out minimum 100k but 8 years in still has not happened. I've resigned myself to selling farm down sizing and getting debt free and just picking jobs afterwards.


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## freeweight (Mar 23, 2013)

(smacks jeffs popcorn out of his hand looks in eye) ....yes jeff ...really!! what the he11 are u eating popcorn for tree guys chew i bet your husband loves your poon tang


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 23, 2013)

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:
Jeff


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## freeweight (Mar 23, 2013)

look how wide your mouth can open ....damn boy


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## ropensaddle (Mar 23, 2013)

With the costs associated in tree business and risks profits should exceed the level of executives in the area. Only problem is the customers are bankers,accountants, lawyers etc and are well versed in keeping the costs of skilled labor low. Many of these types are spineless traitors to the American dream by letting their greed dominate their decisions. The ideal of cheapest price is ingrained into them from birth and since most of them were fed by a silver spoon they have no idea their greed's consequence to America. Please note: I said most not all fall into this and the ones that don't usually end up my customer


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## AirBorneMutha (Mar 23, 2013)

ropensaddle said:


> With the costs associated in tree business and risks profits should exceed the level of executives in the area. Only problem is the customers are bankers,accountants, lawyers etc and are well versed in keeping the costs of skilled labor low. Many of these types are spineless traitors to the American dream by letting their greed dominate their decisions. The ideal of cheapest price is ingrained into them from birth and since most of them were fed by a silver spoon they have no idea their greed's consequence to America. Please note: I said most not all fall into this and the ones that don't usually end up my customer



Well then you should be breaking that 100k figure unless ya only work two days a week


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## ropensaddle (Mar 23, 2013)

AirBorneMutha said:


> Well then you should be breaking that 100k figure unless ya only work two days a week



re read most that does not leave much of a client base! Most use illegal aliens and to me that is a real travesty that their greed trump supporting local business.


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## mckeetree (Mar 24, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:
> Jeff



Take it easy on all that popcorn there, Jeff. You are going to make your old ass sick from all the salt.


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## stltreedr (Mar 28, 2013)

I think Shaun started this thread just so he could watch the #### storm brew up. He hasn't commented since the beginning. Probably laughing his ass off while drinking a Fosters.... or else those wildfires got pretty close.


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## treebogan (Mar 30, 2013)

Yes I think Climbers are underpaid in the States.However it is a "supply and demand" situation.

I have worked in New Zealand,USA,Canada,Germany,France,Great Britain and Norway where I now live.All the rates were different,all the costs of living were different.However in the case of Germany (after a big Storm) and Norway (Norwegians don't like hard work) the demand exceeds supply therefore the rates are higher.


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## MCW (Apr 1, 2013)

stltreedr said:


> I think Shaun started this thread just so he could watch the #### storm brew up. He hasn't commented since the beginning. Probably laughing his ass off while drinking a Fosters.... or else those wildfires got pretty close.



No Australians are stupid enough to drink Fosters


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## Mike-M (Apr 6, 2013)

Its a fun job compared to what most people do for a living, that causes a lot of competition from hacks and side jobbers, which of course brings the wages down.


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