# made in China..cant wait



## ROLLACOSTA (May 20, 2005)

I bet that within the next few years the tree service market will be saturated with Chinese made tree equipmant ,chippers ,stump grinders the whole lot.

Over here we have lots of stuff coming over from china and imo the build quality is quite good no worse imo than the stuff made over here,but the price of this imported chinese equipmant is great ,take a diesel 5.75 kva 10 hp generator £620, and all the spares are available, there sold buy a very reputable company.

Take Chinese quad bikes and small tractors imo there all made fairly well ,but back to my point i cant wait to see the faces of our western [european and american ] salesmans faces when this gear arrives ,imo we have been and are paying way to much for home made tree equipmant.


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## Chris J. (May 20, 2005)

*I can't comment on large equip or tree equip.*

Over the last ten years I've noticed a steady increase in the # of Made in China power tools at flea markets, independent tool shops, etc. Now I'm noticing that some of the same brands are now showing up in Lowe's, Home Depot, Northern Tools, etc. Pep Boys here has carried the cheap MIC brands for quite a while.

I don't buy new power tools very often (I buy 'sleepers' at the flea markets & resale shops), but I wonder how the MIC off-brands are affecting the prices for the low to mid range name brand tools? I'm guessing that the manufactorers of highend tools such as Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Rigid, etc. don't feel the affects as much.


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## Liston (May 20, 2005)

*Buyer beware*

The VCA have been impounding Chinise engines and plant because a lot of it do's not meet EU regulations in emmisions,noise,etc. To get machinery to meet EU - CE spec can be very costly and this is whear the price differance comes in most of the time.

Problem being if you have an accident with a machine with out CE spec files and construction you will be fined by the HSE and your insurance company will void any claims.

this could be bankrupcy for many people. even if the accedent was not their fault  .
All machinery tec files for machinery CE plated have to be approved by a DTI approved inspectrate and these companys know haw to charge for their time abit like lawyers.

If that machine is to cheap to belive then I bet it is not EU approved.

PS/ sorry about bad spelling


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## ROLLACOSTA (May 20, 2005)

I see plenty of far east/chinese made plant,quad bikes,generators,compact tractors,power tools etc that IS DTI approved and is CE marked and is very reasonably priced ! .Like someone else posted on another thread why are chippers etc near on the price of a new truck or decent Merc or BMW ???. Do all tree equip manufactures and dealers etc think we the buyers are stupid ??


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## bigair (May 20, 2005)

When you buy this stuff from china you are only putting a fellow countryman (that once built this equipment) out of work. The cost difference that once allowed him to be paid a decent wage. That is something you should think about before you plunk your money down for this cheap china crap.


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## timberwolf150 (May 20, 2005)

ROLLACOSTA said:


> I see plenty of far east/chinese made plant,quad bikes,generators,compact tractors,power tools etc that IS DTI approved and is CE marked and is very reasonably priced ! .Like someone else posted on another thread why are chippers etc near on the price of a new truck or decent Merc or BMW ???. Do all tree equip manufactures and dealers etc think we the buyers are stupid ??


Roller give me a call. I'd like to invite you for a factory tour. You might change your opinion when you see everything we have to do just to build a chipper!!

Mike.


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## ROLLACOSTA (May 20, 2005)

bigair said:


> When you buy this stuff from china you are only putting a fellow countryman (that once built this equipment) out of work. The cost difference that once allowed him to be paid a decent wage. That is something you should think about before you plunk your money down for this cheap china crap.



SOME MIGHT BE HAPPY PAYING TOP WACK I'M NOT !

ALL i know is i can buy a brand new DOUBLE/DUAL CAB 4X4 TRUCK with 3 years warranty, for the price of a new chipper which only comes with one year warranty[and half the engineering]. I dont think you need to be Einstein to work out which one of the two is better value for money.


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## Liston (May 20, 2005)

*Weight per £*

I once had an iteresting sales call from a guy in South Ireland His first words were how much did the chipper weigh and how much was the price. on the answer he said thats to much for this machine as in Ireland for years the price was dictated by the steel content. "Seams resonable to me".

SO If we use this as a guide it seams to run true. A BMW weight is more the a Ford so it cost more ?.

A 25hp stump grinder weight is about same as small car and costs about the same. BUT the grinder makes you money but does the CAR????.

Could the same be said of the Chipper??????


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## Proj Eng (May 20, 2005)

Think volume fellas. Not everybody needs a chipper. And if they did, they wouldn't be buiying a commercial sized one, that's why they sell homeowner sized ones, that IMO are vibrating heaps. 

"ALL i know is i can buy a brand new DOUBLE/DUAL CAB 4X4 TRUCK with 3 years warranty, for the price of a new chipper which only comes with one year warranty[and half the engineering]. I dont think you need to be Einstein to work out which one of the two is better value for money."

Plus, saying that is like comparing semi trucks (tractor trailers) to a pickup truck.


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## Chris J. (May 20, 2005)

Bigair: I read the labels carefully on just about everything that I'm considering buying or am simply curious about. When it comes to tools, most of the name brand tools from known manufactorers are Made in China. I also believe in buying American made products, but it's getting harder to find products that are truly Made in America. Again, I can only speak about the type of tools that I use, not tree care industry equipment.

Rolla: I think that because tree industry equipment is so specialized, there's a limited market, which means higher prices. Trucks, for example, in Texas are relatively cheap because there's a huge market for them. Not so for chippers, etc. Does buying MIC products hurt your native companies? Yes. Are your native companies hurting themselves by having a ridiculously high mark-up? I'm not in the position to know that. If you're convinced that the local manufactorers are gouging you, then maybe there's some justification for buying MIC products. Guess it's really your call.


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## Thor's Hammer (May 20, 2005)

It will happen in the smaller market, in fact Jinma (PRC manufacturer) already do a small 6" chipper for their 25 hp tractor, brand new for £4k (i think).
I dont know if the bigger stuff will be copied as its fairly low volume sales. That is another reason that chippers are expensive compared to cars. The difference in prices between UK built / sold equipment is because UK manufacturers are sales driven, whereas US manufacturers are factory production driven.
Quality wise, the PRC stuff can't be any worse than british built crap. I doubt it will be as high quality as US built gear. The only thing with US built chippers is the finish tends to be poor, but the steel content and quality of the engineering components is unmatched.


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## clearance (May 20, 2005)

I strongly believe in buying stuff made in the U.S., Canada or Europe because if we buy third world we are cutting our own throats. That being said I have had some bad experiences over the last couple of years, the Maytag fridge/freezer I bought that cost more than almost every other because of "quality". Got it home, took of the package, it was fecked, it had been dropped on its head at some point. The "Maytag" man tried to blame me, didn't want to come and get it, I was so mad I wrestled it into my pickup by myself, chained it to the headache rack and took it back and exchanged it, no sorry, no nothing. The new one broke after a year, my girlfriend told me the repairman said he saw that problem all the time. As soon as the warranty ran out we got a letter in the mail offering us a three year warrranty for $250, what? no faith in your product... fek off. The 4' level I bought at the hardware store, the most expensive one there, took it home, BENT, took it back, the girl said 'Oh yeah, we've had a few of these come back" It said on it Made with pride in the U.S.A., what happened to quality and pride? We will never beat China on price but we should always beat them on quality, never can go wrong paying more for quality.


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## BlackSmith (May 20, 2005)

When you buy the chinese "copies" you support the chinese goverment/military...think about it.


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## ROLLACOSTA (May 20, 2005)

Thor i reckon in a few years there will be very good quality chippers made in china and sold in big volume to ALL western country's..in fact i'd go so far to say i bet theres an oriental business man thinking about makeing them now [all size machines].

As for quality British and American products thats a joke !! i say buy from who ever is the best value for money.


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## Thor's Hammer (May 20, 2005)

When you buy US "copies" you support the US government/military... think about that.


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## ROLLACOSTA (May 20, 2005)

thor do you honestly think a crappy 6'' chipper warrent's the same price as a new 4x4 truck which come's with 3 years warrenty?? because i don't .


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## ROLLACOSTA (May 20, 2005)

BlackSmith said:


> When you buy the chinese "copies" you support the chinese goverment/military...think about it.



when you buy US or British product's you pay taxes that go towards paying for unjustified wars and propping up puppet governments etc etc


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## BlackSmith (May 20, 2005)

That was just wrong.....my bad.


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## Thor's Hammer (May 20, 2005)

Blacksmith, that doesent even warrant a reply in this thread or forum.
Rolla, I dont agree with the situation at all. but it happens. Look at barfords / turner / greenmech. in the same factory it costs more to build and theres a lot more steel in a 6 tonne dumper than a crappy little chipper. but the chipper cost about £5000 more... no wonder they want to build chippers...
My problem is the size and build of the crappy little things. at least you get a decent amount of steel and horsepower in a yank chipper.
However, I have spoken to a chinese company who would be more than happy to build chippers for us...


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## ROLLACOSTA (May 20, 2005)

Thor will they make big vermeer copy's at half the price ,if so i'll order one right away.


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## Thor's Hammer (May 20, 2005)

Give me a spec Rolla, What sort of machine you looking for? 
and what have vermeer quoted you?


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## ROLLACOSTA (May 20, 2005)

AH any 12'' will do higher the HP the better oh and it must be a disk chipper price haven't a clue well not exactly true ,but thats the sellers dept lol..any ideas when i might take delivery??


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## clearance (May 20, 2005)

Thor and Rolla- I'm bloody well ashamed that you geezers are my countrymen, wots wrong with Brits making things and you lot buying em. It wern't this way when I was a lad, wankers supporting 'orrible wogs. Where av we gorn wrong eh, too think that we won the war, twice. couldn't do that again, bloody bone idle twats what was the British workingman in our past.


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## ROLLACOSTA (May 20, 2005)

nice one patriotic clearance ,well said from a bloke who jumped a 'sinking ship' [dear old England] and headed off to new pastures lol


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## Thor's Hammer (May 20, 2005)

Rolla, why a disk? A drum would be more compact, and take less horsepower to chip larger timber. How much power do you want? 100hp or 250hp?

I reckon a 10" x 18" twin feed, high torque feed motors, 5' wide feed pan with winch, 100hp cat or detroit deisel, and priced at £18000 would be about right...

Have you tried a bandit?

Clearance - like to see you use a 6" timberwolf for a day - and pay $30000usd for it...


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## a_lopa (May 20, 2005)

ill be buying off the chinese straight up,they build housing blocks across from there factorys so they can run 24/7,drum is better than disc rolla more even blade wear.and this coming from a bloke whos relo's got the boot from the old dart LOL bless there theiving souls.


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## Thor's Hammer (May 20, 2005)

better chip quality too


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## clearance (May 20, 2005)

Rolla, Thor-just aving you on, pulling yer leg. I came here when I was 4, no choice in the matter, but very happy I grew up here and live here. Anyways, I try to avoid chipping and people, I get sent to climb on r.o.w. or do land clearing. Not scared to chip, my boss got some new Vermeer self feeders. I like to see brush get stuffed in a bin by a hoe or left to rot in the bush though. What I want to see is the quality of stuff made in the western countries be of superior quality, not happy with the progressive decline I see.


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## Thor's Hammer (May 20, 2005)

The best chipper manufacturers in the world? The Swedes. Bruks or Erjo. superb quality, sophisticated iqan control, variable pressure hydraulics, 470hp scania power, hardox chipper housings, etc etc. The downside? fearsome prices. about £180k for a chipper, or $300k


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## Chris J. (May 20, 2005)

Be careful promoting Swedish quality; you'll have Mange posting here . My apologies, Mange, I could knot resist the temptation.


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## wedge (May 20, 2005)

buy stuff made in whatever country you live in. or else you might have to see youre neighbor lose his house/ life because his job at the factory is gone along with 10,000 other sorry bastards. theyre kids have to go to school in old clothes. the father has to work 2 jobs just to feed his family, i wont even get into healthcare god forbid if someone gets hurt. retirement what retirement? but ill bet the chinese folks that made those tools you bought are buying lots of christmas presents with the money they made off you(oh yeah they dont celebrate christmas oops!!!)


buy products that youre countrymen made because youll be sorry someday you didnt, just like alot of us here in the u.s are


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## Chris J. (May 20, 2005)

Wedge, I agree with you wholeheartedly in principle, but I have to refer to my previous post: It is increasingly difficult to find truelly Made in (name the country of your choice). This is especially true here in the USA.


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## wedge (May 20, 2005)

difficult but not impossible there are plenty of tool companise made in us including power tools electronics im not too sure of though. gimme an example


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## lawmart (May 20, 2005)

hi Guys sorry to jump into this late,

My point of view is that you have to buy what is the best value, it does not matter what country it is made in. if that country can not buld a good reliable product at the best price then it should not be in bussness,
Buying a product because it is made in your country, and by your neighbour does not make sence if it is not good quilty/price . 
This is what happed to the north american car industiry not to long ago we got passed by the japanise and euoopieans , they passed us in price and quililty, and we ar still playing catch up..
We have to make our companies realize that they need to increase the quilty of there products and lower there price , if you keep falseely buying the product , they see no reasoin to change there ways till it is too late..
It's like only dealing with the tree company in your town even thouht he does crapy work, when there is a company in the next town who works better and cheaper but you will not deal with him because he lives in the other town.
How is or why should your home town guy change if he knows that he has your bussness because he lives in your town.

well i hope i made my point.
my two cents play safe
lawmart


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## a_lopa (May 20, 2005)

aint competition great!! cant wait for a 12""peking"chipper


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## bigair (May 20, 2005)

It costs more to pay american workers. The cost of living here is higher, thus the higher price on things made here. This whole sellout to china thing makes me sick. We are just handing them all the technology it took us years to develop. I personally will not knowingly buy anything made there.


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## Thor's Hammer (May 21, 2005)

I dont think the US handed them any technology, most of their engineering know how has come from europe - a lot of engineering consultants working over there. Dont forget they had history and culture etc. when we were still making mud pies...


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## clearance (May 21, 2005)

Race to the bottom, lets go down to a third world level and be happy with a bowl of rice for a days slaving, great. I want to live good, I want people here to live good, why not bring in people from some hole who will love to cut trees for $10 a day, that would follow getting stuff cheap? It isn't all about money, c'mon figure it out.


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## wedge (May 21, 2005)

most people cant see the writing on the wall till its an evicton notice or a layoff slip. the worst part is those of us who care will go down with the rest of them. hopefully china will send aid to us when were third world


america to the lowest bidder


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## Thor's Hammer (May 21, 2005)

sounds great, can't wait.
Is it so wrong that they should desire a higher standard of living from a growing economy?


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## wedge (May 21, 2005)

not wrong at all, just as long as it doesnt hurt everyone else. as far as im concerned china could drop off the map. i could care less if any of em work i worry about me and my own.


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## a_lopa (May 21, 2005)

. i could care less if any of em work i worry about me and my own.[/QUOTE]


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## Ekka (May 22, 2005)

When you spend money it's like voting with your dollars.

So, you want to vote for poor human rights, poor living standards, no holidays, no superannuation, no sick leave, no environmental policies, no work place health and safety etc etc ... that is what you are doing.

If you think your country and standard of law, social justice, freedom of speech, democratic rights etc etc is good, buy home made.

It amazes me that what I perceived as intelligent people would actually not give a crap about their fellow countrymen.

We all do jobs and get paid, the people that pay us work somewhere, if they don't have a job many things happen

A/ They start trying to do your job (hacks etc)
B/ Taxes go up as the social security system gets burdened
C/ Bankrupties rise, recession follows
D/ Crime rises
E/ You start doing it tough and tougher as prices fall, competition gets heated, there's less cutomers wanting tree work.

Oh yeah, but you got that bargain from China ... well done, you're real intelligent. Your the one that thought you'd get away unscathed. You wanted to leverage your lifestyle ... you know, earn good money in a good country and buy from the third world nice and cheap, heck you'd get twice as much or pay half as much ... but the price you'll pay and that of your countrymen will be a lot worse in the long run.

Think I'm full of chit ... take a closer look. Australia's standard of living has slipped remarkedly over the last 25 years, home ownership is becoming a nightmare instead of a dream. It is getting worse. 

I just remind you all, every time you spend you are voting with your dollars. Just like that customer who said "you weren't the cheapest quote but I'd like to give you the job"


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## clearance (May 22, 2005)

Well said Ekka. How far we (Allied force countries of W.W. 2) have sunk since the post war prosperity that was from the late 40s through the 70s. When I joined the workforce in 85, the good times where over and we were into the downhill slide that is excellerating, despite what the neo-con politicians tell us. How pathetic that the people who control the vast capital at corporations based in our countries have chosen to invest in countries that can undercut us at our expense. And that consumers buy cheap, not realizing or in some peoples case (on this thread) not caring that they are helping to kill their countries future.


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## Liston (May 22, 2005)

*Chiniese cheap ???*

Now take my local takeaway, More Expensive then the American Burger, More expensive then the Indian, and more expensive the The British chippy """".

So will the Chiniese be cheaper ?. 

Still gives me Idear I think Ill make my next product brocure with numbers for easy ordering, " no/ 34, 12" chipper & no/ 16, Top lift to go. Still if you get the "WONG" number you might get a 6" chipper. 

Don't allways know whats in your spring roll, will you know whats in your chipper?.

LOL...........


The fact on price and value will always be in the Exchange rates when it comes to imported goods and shiiping rates the far east need to pack the shipping full to maintain price , volume, so Larger goods ie: big chippers take up to much room  but smaller plant 4", 6" chippers pack nicely in to cubes, IN VOLUME  .


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## ROLLACOSTA (May 22, 2005)

IMO it's a dog eat dog world ,i could'nt really give a hoot about my fellow countrymen,just like they could'nt give a stuff about me when they get 5 or 6 quote's!. My country is made up of non English speaking immigrant's anyway

Yes i know buying from other country's will hurt us all in the long run [well might] but again IMO the can of worm's is already open .


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## Thor's Hammer (May 22, 2005)

Pandoras box was opened a long time ago. and as far as i'm concerned my countrymen just want to rip me off by charging way to much for crap products, so its tough luck if i go elsewhere. most chippers are either built in US or germany anyway. the only ones i used that were built in Aus were a pile of ????e anyway. (sorry Ekka)


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## juststumps (May 22, 2005)

nice chat,,everyone is missing one big point...i don't care what you buy...save all the money you can..but,,,any thing you use,,,will eventually break!!!! you can buy a machine from mars...but can you get parts, service,and support from mars???? i don't think so...last thing i'd want to do, is to mail order a machine and have no local dealer!!!! what do you tell a customer when your machine breaks down on the job?? 1 : service guy is comming,,,i'll run to the dealer get parts,,,i'll get loaner to finish the job
or do you say 2: i bought a no name machine, from a no name company from mars..Boy, did i save a boat load of money!!!! but my machine is stuck in your yard, till the mars shuttle comes in... ( slow boat from china) ,,,so i'm not only willing to screw the rest of my work week up,, i'm going to screw your plans up also, to save a few bucks!!!!!!


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## a_lopa (May 23, 2005)

you can buy a machine from mars...but can you get parts, service,and support from mars???? 

i hear theres some hot deals going down over there.


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## Ekka (May 23, 2005)

There obviously appears to be a problem in England.

Don't get it though, about 70 million people living in a place the size of one of our smaller states. You'd think that there would be some demand for a quality local product ... and for the services you guys perform.

What has happened over there ... too many immigrants? Hacks?

Dog eat dog world is a pretty tough stance, have you a lot of bite marks?


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## TimberMcPherson (May 23, 2005)

If you buy all local stuff in the western world its going to cost 3 times as much to make and buy, so you can only afford a third of the amount of things that you normally buy. So there is less sales volume. The couple low skill jobs you save is lost due to lack of retail volume. People in the western world make alot of money buying shipping and onselling chinese goods. 
Buying overseas goods is good for everyone (well almost). Do you think any of the car companys in the UK or US would have got their crap anywhere near as together as they do today? Remember truimph motorcycles, remember the harleys of the 70's and 80's, How about the morris marina?We put up with CRAP because the companies had little real competition and treated buyers with arogant distain. Do you want to bring back the days before german, japanese and swedish chainsaws? Do you want to pay thousands for your average TV and VCR? The international competition is why we have things as good as we do. Cheap imports is why we are able to own as much as we do and not support manufacturing jobs that pay so little the people might as well be on welfare.

If everyone buys more locally it means there is less spending money as products become more expensive, so less money go into services, restraunts, tourism, education and that means we are all out of pocket as treework is the first thing that gets cut back in peoples budget when the money gets short.


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## iain (May 23, 2005)

as i see it business is business and market force's are always and will always be there

lots of so called 'made in the uk' products are manufactured in the old 'eastern' block and shipped over here in crates and bolted together here so that they can say made in the uk **its boll*cks** as a consequece most of the uk workforce
'dont' make anything anymore, our manufacturing industry is gone we are a nation of call centre's n offices

so whats the real difference whether the guys in the factory are called ivan or ying 

if the price and construction and spec's are right some will buy it 

which is fine untill it busts and it will !! if the importer is smart, that should n't be a big problem

*compromise* from our home grown manufacturers will be the only way to plug the leak


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## Thor's Hammer (May 23, 2005)

Lets face it, our home grown manufacturers have lost the plot when it comes to building quality kit, unless its bespoke. we lost the ability and reputation to build high quality engineering long ago. very sad considering our industrial heritage.


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## iain (May 23, 2005)

assembly plants as far as the eye can see parts curtiousy of bulgaria and china

viva democracy


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## Ekka (May 23, 2005)

There's some serious flaws in arguments saying importing is OK.

It's called balance of payments, the country month by month is going backwards financially as money is sent overseas for product.

Australia fortunately has a large natural resources and farming for exports. But that alone is not enough. We run a deficit of approx $1.5 billion a month, that's huge, in the last 10 years it's grown from 3% of our GDP to over 6%.

Service jobs merely spread existing money around ... they don't bring exports, or money from other countries into yours ... that's the true Chinamans economy ... I'll cut your hair whilst you clean my windows etc.

Finally, the following cars, Jaguar, BMW, Fiat, Volvo, Holden, GMC, Chrysler, Mercedes etc are all produced in relevant wealthy nations which shows it can be done and the workers can have a decent living.

Imagine if America's motor car industry fell over. Over here our Holden is stronger than ever and supported by the locals ... thank god.


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## ROLLACOSTA (May 23, 2005)

Cars from Japan reign strong over here Ekka..the only cars worth buying imo are German or Japanese..When i was last over in AUSTRALIA it looked like jap cars were the most popular to me..

JUSTSTUMPS dont worry they the chinese will make the part's ,it only makes good business sence ,and belive me they have plenty of that ,had it not been for Communism they would have probably been the joint super power buy now.

kids overhere are now opting to learn MANDARIN [CHINESE ] instead of German and french etc


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## bigair (May 23, 2005)

I have nothing against the chinese or any other country for that matter. Just the 
capitalists taking advantage of them.


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## Thor's Hammer (May 23, 2005)

I'd say it would be a clever capitalist to put one over the feindishly clever chinese...


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## juststumps (May 23, 2005)

remember the "YUGO"


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## Ekka (May 24, 2005)

Holden and Ford are huge over here. We have V8 Supercar racing featuring nothing but the two and it has big following, over in NZ to.

Then there's Toyota. They have a big factory in Melbourne and assemble the cars there. Also the Govt insists that there's a 20% or so Australian made content. So you'll find components made here like alternators, water pumps, tyres, rims, starter motors, shock absorbers etc etc.

I just had a look at the stats for UK, here's the address http://www.statistics.gov.uk/instantfigures.asp

You guys are running around £3 billion deficit a month. And here's some more news, what's your total debt ... *At the end of 2004 general government debt was £481.4 billion, equivalent to 41.6 per cent of GDP. It remains substantially within the reference value for excessive debt.* But this figure (unlike Australia's) doesn't include the private sector which is getting close to £1000 billion! So total UK debt is in the £1.5 trillion area.

Australia’s net foreign debt was $422 billion (total public and private) in the December 2004 quarter, an estimated 51 per cent of GDP. The general government share of Australia’s net foreign debt has fallen sharply in recent years, accounting for only 5.0 per cent of total net foreign debt in the December quarter – well below the 17.2 per cent share in 1996.

So, if you're game you can look up China, it runs around $200billion US dollars surplus per annum ... so, you do not have to be Einstein to figure out where your going. That's cold hard cash. 

Go for a cruise on the internet and realise your future, you think it's dog eat dog now, but you may prefer that to rats.


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## TimberMcPherson (May 24, 2005)

Ekka said:


> Holden and Ford are huge over here. We have V8 Supercar racing featuring nothing but the two and it has big following, over in NZ to.
> 
> Features nothing but the two since they had the rest banned because the the fords and holdens couldnt beat them even after they were handicapped.I still watch it, its a great race series.
> 
> ...


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## Ekka (May 24, 2005)

It's a matter of different types of cars in racing, or classes etc.

When you go to the grand prix you don't see different sized cars with different capacity engines, same with indy etc. You had to many different weights, engines etc. Australians lost interest as their "legends" is what they wanted to see. V8 muscle car racing not Mazda rotaries and other Euro BS.

Also there is what is called the world car concept. Various automobile manufactures got together rebadging cars and as part of the deal on their assembly lines various countries make different parts. Holden got together with Opel, GMC etc.

Did you know that just last year in Melbourne the largest engine manufacturing plant in the southern hemisphere was completed that will make over 400,000 engines per year and supply both the local and overseas market.

Did you know that the Holdens factory in Elizabeth SA employs over 5000 people, runs 3 shifts, and pumps out over 700 cars a day.

Our motor vehicle industry is exporting cars, we have Mitsubishi too. Who, even though owned by Japanese let us do the design and engineering, that's how the magna was born ... the Japanese were most impressed.

Don't forget that Aussies travel vast distances on open roads, they want power to tow things and over take, they want parts where-ever they go, they want reliability and comfort.

There is a lot more a stake here than cheap cars and fortunately we have had the intelligence to work it out not abandon our country for cheap imports.


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## Thor's Hammer (May 24, 2005)

Ekka - I know exactly what your saying, and where your coming from. (I used to have a 5.0 v8 falcon, bit of a tank but boy do those cars last!)
the problem for us brits has been succesive crap governments starting with Labour's union dominated gov. of the 60's and seventies (more pay less work) and the kneejerk tory conservative backlash of the 70's and eightys where the thacherite government broke the unions but then sold off or shut down everything in sight. this has created a country that financialy is totaly dependent on borrowing for so called growth. Its government has been steamrollered by the banks and insurance companies into looking after the 2 square miles of city district in london and phuk all else. Inventors and engineers are looked down upon as cranks, and manufacturing is a dirty word. And people wonder why we all want to skip the country? its become an arsehole of a country, where earning a living with your hands is considered one up from being on the dole. 
And yet there are still shades of brilliance among the grime, last year a back shed inventor came up with an idea for rocket fuel involving hydrogen + oxygen bubbled through araldite that has saved nasa's booster rocket bill by 90%!


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## juststumps (May 24, 2005)

rolla,,, buy chinese...after all, it's the reason you are not talking german now!!!! my bad,,, sorry,, chinese were getting thier butt whooped by the japanese....oops, i keep on forgeting that was a long time ago..........


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## a_lopa (May 24, 2005)

aussie car, canadian engine,yank tranny


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## Ekka (May 25, 2005)

I remember when I did my trade and the ants pants of tools was Sheffield. Now you have the Full Monty.

Governments can make or break a country. The English economy is surviving off exporting services. What a load of BS that is. Exporting services such as insurance and banking. Most of the human jobs within those 2 sectors have gone and it's all just data entry and computers but huge profits for corporations and that balance sheet looks good as Lloyds opens another branch in Europe.

Per head of Capita, the English are the most innovative, around 50% of the worlds patents come out of England, US, Australia, etc etc are also high, only 3% comes out of Japan and a big stuff all out of China as all they do is copy.

Some genius politician here some 15 years ago decided on reducing tariffs on competing imported goods, his words were that a level playing field was fair ... level my ass, we don't work for a bowl of rice a day. But fortunately we're hanging in there on a few sectors but if that mentality of "I don't give a hoot, all I want is cheaper" keeps going the standard of living will keep going down, your dollar on the world market will be worth crap and like the same genius of a politician said 15 years ago "you'll become a banana republic".

As your country's standard of living declines (although you can buy cheap goods) what you'll find happens is a scenario where land and house prices start to get out of reach. You simply won't be able to borrow enough money as it's relevant to your income what you can borrow. You won't be able to up your income much as it's now a dog eat rat market place and staff are actually offering prospective employers a lower pay rate to get a job (I'll do it for 10 quid an hour).

So you'll end up renting, the rent will get dearer to the point it is just as bad as a mortgage, but you'll have plenty of cheap toys and electronics. If your lucky enough the government might put you in housing commission, but slowly that will go up as the govt is in debt up to it's ears. If you rent privately your new landlord will probably be Chinese.


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## Thor's Hammer (May 25, 2005)

As your country's standard of living declines (although you can buy cheap goods) what you'll find happens is a scenario where land and house prices start to get out of reach. You simply won't be able to borrow enough money as it's relevant to your income what you can borrow. You won't be able to up your income much as it's now a dog eat rat market place and staff are actually offering prospective employers a lower pay rate to get a job (I'll do it for 10 quid an hour).

So you'll end up renting, the rent will get dearer to the point it is just as bad as a mortgage, but you'll have plenty of cheap toys and electronics. If your lucky enough the government might put you in housing commission, but slowly that will go up as the govt is in debt up to it's ears. If you rent privately your new landlord will probably be Chinese.[/QUOTE]

Ekka - That *Perfectly* describes the UK property market, Right down to the chinese landlords. Bangor (my local tiny university city) is mostly owned by chinese and asians. I don't begrudge them that because I know they've worked like phuk to get there, but what a sodding useless state this country's become.
I think I should follow my in laws back to Ausy...


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## Ekka (May 25, 2005)

Come on down under mate ... it's gotta be better and we need good arborists.

Don't blow the chance, imagine in a few years it'll be even harder to get in.

Here's the irony, why do they buy houses etc in foreign countries, for that matter why do they put their money in English banks and trust English insurance companies ... well, would you trust a semi-communist govt? As fast as they make the money they cover their asses with it, off to a safer place.

Never have I said that these people are stupid, but they know where they come from.


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## Thor's Hammer (May 25, 2005)

Had a 1 year visa last time, and could have got in permenantly as B.tree experts offered me a partnership. Should have taken it while I had the chance I think..


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## Thor's Hammer (Jun 3, 2005)

here you go Rolla. small but cheap
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11752&item=7520604113&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW


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## a_lopa (Jun 3, 2005)

talking to a freind yeasterday who worked in japan the last 10 years in auto dismantle,he says alot of japanese techs in the automotive area have moved to china.a tractor the same size as a large john deer is quater the price.


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## arboles (Jun 4, 2005)

Donald Rumsfeld rebuked China today for their massive military build up saying there are no enemies in the region to threaten them. Everyone seems to forget that China's communist regime is an evil wicked force we will have to deal with in the near future. The next time you buy a Chinese product remember the company that made it is most likely state owned. The employees of these companies are paid small wages and if they refuse to work they are placed in work camps where they are punished. The Chinese government hates democracy, personal freedom, and most of all they hate the US constitution. Our government and the elite have sold out the working class Americans for cheap Asian labor and their cheap products. Take a close look at the US Harmonized Tariff Schedule. Chinese goods are taxed very little if any at all. The rich are greedy and near sighted. All they care about is making money NOW! We have been become so dependant on foreign textiles that a break in the supply chain from Asia would cripple our economy. I believe many of us will live to see the day when our economy will collapse. When it does there will be a series of events that will trigger an invasion on both the east and the west coast. I just hope those who are responsible will get the bayonet before me.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Jun 5, 2005)

That's a very gloomy out look Arboles


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## Al Smith (Jun 5, 2005)

History repeats it's self.Let's take a little trip on the time machine.Early on ,while the USA was just a bunch of colonies,mother England controlled all the iron imported this infant nation,for several reasons,but money being the biggest factor.That was somewhat changed during the revolutionary period,with the then new,US iron production.However the exportation of then production type equipment was monopolized .A few yankee inventors,Eli Whitney being one,helped solve that problem.Over several hundred years,instead of Sheffield England being the center of precision machinery,it became Cincinnati Ohio.The same thing with the textile industry,going from England,to the New England states of the US .These markets have changed,over the years.It now seems that the machinery has shifted to Germany and Japan,and the textiles ,to the Pacific rim countries.It seems to be an ever revolving wheel .It all makes for interesting conversation but there are no simple solutions,because it has happened before,historically speaking.In terms of quality products,I could cite the bone shaking Brit bikes of the 60's,BSA, Triumph,Royal Enfield .They would loose half their parts on a 100 mile trip.How about the oil leaking Harleys,always marked their spots.Then along came a little cheap scooter from Japan.Cheap,ran good,didn't leak oil. Not only did the US buyers embrace these little imports,the entire world did.Now,in that case,who shot themselves in the foot?


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## arboles (Jun 5, 2005)

Very gloomy on the one hand but very optimistic on the other. In reality the war with freedom haters began before the foundations of the world were laid. It continues here in mortality. Whether it's communism, alcoholism, ????ography, drug abuse, tobacco use, or any other vice that diminishes the moral agency of man and brings him into bondage, it all relates to two oposing forces that exist in the universe. Good and evil. When there is an earth inhabited by human beings there will be an opposition in all things. Our forefathers were absolute in their allegience to God and freedom. Today our leaders flip flop back and forth. One minute they're giving praises with their lips, and the next they're conspiring in secret chambers to bring the masses into bondage. Secret combinations have existed for millennia and have destroyed entire civilizations. In the end truth and righteousness, freedom and peace will prevail.


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## Ekka (Jun 6, 2005)

Well I've just had a look at the USA stats on trade deficit etc and it's pretty good.

Yeah, you are importing more than your exporting but the debt is only around $650billion for the a nation who's GDP is $12.2trillion = 6%

But the problem is that it's getting worse not better, and following a similar path to us in Australia. But no where near as bad as England.

This will get worse as you import more, and US companies move to manufacture in China.

I just can't see that dragon being slayed ... not economically.


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## a_lopa (Jun 6, 2005)

im not saying there not clever little fellas,but they do need us to copy from.

a freind of mine goes there to teach them automotive accesories for one of the worlds biggest companys,its pretty basic stuff he has to teach.

why cant they make n sell stuff?


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## Chris J. (Jun 6, 2005)

So...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Maybe we should take a good look at the MIC equipment, & try to get in on the parts distibution in our respective countries. Providing we're not talking about totally disposable equipment. Bad idea? Good idea?


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## Ekka (Jun 10, 2005)

Knot Whole

Really, it's ultimately up to governments isn't it.

They let the jobs go and imports in, they choose the tax rates and corporate affairs.

MIC is only the tip of the iceberg, economic dominance is extremely powerful.

They have over a billion workers, who work for less than $1/hour, do you want to join them?

Parts distributors, are you kidding? Haven't you noticed that only chinese work in chinese restuarants. They'll cut the guts out of the middle man and put in their own.


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## juststumps (Jun 10, 2005)

seems like a little pot stiring here...the original poster,, just bought a made in USA stump grinder.. go figure...


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## a_lopa (Jun 10, 2005)

shanghai would be cool place to be this weekend. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-06/09/content_449875.htm


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## TimberMcPherson (Jun 16, 2005)

arboles said:


> Donald Rumsfeld rebuked China today for their massive military build up saying there are no enemies in the region to threaten them.
> 
> Rumsfeld saying that is like Dozer dan telling saw users that saws are fine standard and they shouldnt modify them. Look at the US military, its bigger than most of the world military spending combined.
> 
> ...



China has a huge problem, its a nation that knows more about suffering than anyone who has been married to rosanne barr. Thousands of years of civil wars that culled people unlike anything the world has seen. Without the ultra hard line of its leadership it would implode. Look at the mass starvations that have occured just in the last century or the invasion by Japan that made pearl harbour look like a nose tweak. China will eventually find democracy, but like russia it will take time.


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## arboles (Jun 16, 2005)

There are two gentlemen who defected from the KGB back in the 80's, both of whom have written books on the subject. What was their message? The fall of Communism is a big deception. The arms race broke the Soviet Union financially, therfore they have resorted to secret combinations to acheive their ends. There's a deeper and more profound reason for the ploy, but I wont go into that now. Nevertheless it has been stated that Russian operatives have been known to somehow persuede Hollywood studios to put more sex and violence in their motion pictures. Why would they do this you ask? To desensitize American citizens. Abraham Lincoln once said that America would never be destroyed by outside forces. He said if we faltered it would be because we did it to ourselves. There's no doubt that the majority of the US population are a wicked, unrepentant, greedy, self indulgent people who love filth and instant gratification more than their fellows. America is like a lamb being fattened for the slaughter. There is a dark unseen force working behind the scenes. It is invisible to the natural eye, but those who are spiritual have the power of discernment.

China just announced their intention to build an aircraft carrier. With no apparent enemies, except the US because of it's possible involvmemt over Taiwan. China must and will bring Taiwan back into the Communist sheep fold. Taiwan would be a powerful stragegic millitary base if the US ever went to war with China. Because of our economic dependence, and our love for cheap labor, China will win the war over Taiwan without so much as firing a shot. And as American citizens continue to become more wicked and corrupt our friends in foreign lands will continue to dissent and grow more hostile. It's been estimated that only 5% of Americans are righteous. It's my belief that as this number decreases the divine protection we now enjoy will decrease. And just like many other mighty nations before us, we shall feel the chastening hand of an offended God. For all you unbelievers out there, and those of you who are living in a fantasy world I assure you the day will come when the US will be beseiged from both sides. This land will be swept clean as a newborn babe. The constitution will hang by a thread but will never fail! Love your fellow man and live according the the truth you posess. This is righteousness.


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## BigUglySquirrel (Jun 17, 2005)

TimberMcPherson said:


> China will eventually find democracy, but like russia it will take time.



I'm sorry sir. As much as everyone in the world believes that the majority should make the decisions, it's just not going to happen. Anywhere. Not even here in the good ole USA. Government is no longer "for the people, by the people" It's strictly "BUY the people" Lady Liberty hung her head quite some time ago to make room for those who had power and money. They do what they want now. And you're going to live with it. That's right friends. We've spent the last 200 years and the brightest minds in history getting right back to where we were before the American Revolution. Sure, you get to cast a vote now...but what good is a vote when the candidates are handpicked by the rich men and companies behind the scenes? The ones who REALLY run things. Chew on this: You're voting for their puppets, and no matter which one you vote for, you're voting for the candidate that they selected FOR YOU. The end result is the same. Power in the hands of an elite few. So why not spare China the trouble? Grant them a 200 year learning curve on this one. You want to give them democracy? There is no democracy. Fact is, we operate under the same type of government. Our's just does us the favor of letting us think that we're still in charge. Don't believe me? When was the last time a layman ran for ANY office of significance? Got any steel workers in Congress? Loggers in the Senate? The guy who owns the corner store...you trust him. He's a strong name in the community. The fairest man you've ever known. Think he'll ever sit in the Oval Office? But you'd vote for him, wouldn't you? It's a shame really. That dirty fingernails built this country, but now they aren't good enough to run it.


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