# defective Vermeer drum



## southern wood (May 14, 2012)

Has anyone had a problem with the internal integrety of a vermeer drum? We have a 1800xl chipper that has 3500 hrs and a baffle/counterwieght has broken loose inside the drum.
Vermeer has refused to warrenty the problem.
We have argued that it is not a warrenty issue but is a factory defect but they do not agree. The chipper has not been abused and we have kept up with all maintenance. We have personel that have 20 years experience with vermeer chippers and have never heard of this before. We have contacted several different dealers and shop supervisors and no one has had this experience.

Please let me know if you have had any experience with this issue.:msp_mad:


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## southern wood (May 14, 2012)

Does anyone know what is inside a vermeer drum?


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## jefflovstrom (May 14, 2012)

Could it be as simple as you being unlucky enough to get a defect drum? 3500 hours, how many hours do you think they should warranty ?
Jeff 
just curious.


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## mattfr12 (May 14, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Could it be as simple as you being unlucky enough to get a defect drum? 3500 hours, how many hours do you think they should warranty ?
> Jeff
> just curious.



Well thats what i was gonna say 3500 is getting up their on a drum. but its not very un heard of for them to need replaced with that kind of hours. they usually last longer 8x out of 10. your probably going to be better off just putting a new drum in it if that one already has 3500 on it.


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## southern wood (May 15, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> Well thats what i was gonna say 3500 is getting up their on a drum. but its not very un heard of for them to need replaced with that kind of hours. they usually last longer 8x out of 10. your probably going to be better off just putting a new drum in it if that one already has 3500 on it.



yes, 3500 hrs is a good amount of hours, but usually you have to replace because of OUTSIDE wear not inside defect. We've run alot of Vermeers and never had a internal failure. Thats the point. This is not a wear item. Its not like I could have prevented the failure.
Thats why I think Vermeer should man up.


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## imagineero (May 15, 2012)

southern wood said:


> yes, 3500 hrs is a good amount of hours, but usually you have to replace because of OUTSIDE wear not inside defect. We've run alot of Vermeers and never had a internal failure. Thats the point. This is not a wear item. Its not like I could have prevented the failure.
> Thats why I think Vermeer should man up.



I'd say zero chance

3500 hours is getting up there. If the chipper is relatively new then you've been running it hard to get that many hours. I'm guessing at least 4 years old though, which is 47 in human years ;-)

May be a factory fault, but honestly, it's unlikely. Being an 1800, I'm sure you're not pushing twigs through it. If the internals held on for that many years and hours, it's unlikely to be a faulty weld. Those sorts of things let go pretty early in life.

Not sure what the going rate is for chipping in the states, but in aus, the minimum charge for chipping is $250/hour, minimum 1 hour charge even for 5 minutes work. At those rates, that chipper has covered over three quarters of a million dollars in chipping. If you're been contract chipping I hope you put something aside for maintenance. If you're doing only your own work then you need to factor the chipping rate into the job or you're not charging for the true cost of your gear. I'm guessing around $10k or under for the drum repair? I think you should man up.

Shaun


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## southern wood (May 15, 2012)

*shaun:*



imagineero said:


> I'd say zero chance
> 
> 3500 hours is getting up there. If the chipper is relatively new then you've been running it hard to get that many hours. I'm guessing at least 4 years old though, which is 47 in human years ;-)
> 
> ...




Shaun:
Didnt say the machine hasn't earned its keep. But you sound like a Vermeer dealer


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## Eq Broker (May 15, 2012)

Southern wood,

I know you're between a rock and a hard place. I would contact Vermeer and see if they offer a remanufactured drum. They should also credit you for the defective drum easing the pain somewhat. It sounds like a weld has broken loose on the baffle creating the issue. Finding a used drum for this chipper will be difficult. I would also ask Vermeer if there is any warranty on the remaned drum as well.

Hope this helps!

Dave
Global Equipment Exporters


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## treeclimber101 (May 15, 2012)

southern wood said:


> Shaun:
> Didnt say the machine hasn't earned its keep. But you sound like a Vermeer dealer



You have 3500 hrs on it , I have 3700 on mine and all bets are off , it could implode tomorrow and I wouldn't expect otherwise , I mean I think you are asking alot .. How much is a drum for that machine ? We had a drum bearing go which also took out the drum and shield but ours was warrantied


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## mattfr12 (May 15, 2012)

southern wood said:


> Shaun:
> Didnt say the machine hasn't earned its keep. But you sound like a Vermeer dealer



Don't wanna sound like a dealer but at around 3-4k things like this start to happen. 4k in hours to me is usually dead I know they can last longer but from my experience reliability goes down and they nickel dime you. I've seen them pushing 10k in hours. 

I went through this with a sc352 stump grinder years ago that had 200 hours on it and they wouldn't cover the motor mounts falling apart. So just what I'm guessing is with 3500 it's a very slim chance.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?c4hw2s


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## imagineero (May 16, 2012)

southern wood said:


> Does anyone know what is inside a vermeer drum?



436 hamsters on speed to make them run faster. The number of hamsters is critical. Too many and they trip each other up, too few and the drum never reaches operating speed. You may not know this, but when you have the machine serviced at a genuine vermeer dealer, they fill the inside with a propretary slow release mix of carbs, steroids and speed. They also replace old hamsters with new ones at appropriate intervals. I'm guessing you serviced the machine yourself and the hamsters have kicked the bucket. That's the rattling sound and it also causes imbalance in the drum. I should know, I'm a vermeer dealer ;-)

Welcome to Arboristsite anyhow 

Shaun


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## HappyTreesLLC (May 22, 2012)

My old 2007 BC1800XL had 1700 hours on it. One of the reasons I sold it is I did not want to deal with drum. Despise its bulkiness, drum is very delicate thing. Smallest disbalance can lead to internal tension, which it resulting in failer.

Sorry budy, but I am with Vermeer dealer.
However if I'd be a dealer I'd be making sure you will be taking care fare-and-square. Such as dealer cost for relacement drumm with free loaner during repair or good deal for new one with minimum financing...
Good luck


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## Truebanditfan1 (Feb 21, 2014)

The cracks in the drum are caused by several things and they are common. Unlike Bandits 1/2 inch thick drum with 4 knives that cut with the grain like planing (for example) the Vermeer has two knives and cuts perpendicular to the grain causing massive vibrations. A high hp engine trying to continually eat large trees with a very thin skinned drum causes havoc and stress. This is one of the reasons Vermeer finally went to a 1/2 thick drum skin.


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## Truebanditfan1 (Feb 21, 2014)

Forgot, new drum is minimally $6,000


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## HappyTreesLLC (Feb 23, 2014)

Ye,
I forgot, new 18" chipper is minimally $60,000
You buy new, use for 5-6 years and sale it for $30,000.
So chipper cost you $5,000 - $6,000 per year with ZERO problem.
OR
You buy use and deal with some one else problems and spend $5,000- $6,000 in repairs PLUS lost time.
Just do your math. Very ofter paying more IS actually cost less.


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## Dillweed (Feb 23, 2014)

Vermeer drums have a separate warranty. In 2004 I bought a new BC1000xl. It will take a 12" log, but is does not like it. No kidding, the drum was replaced four times under warranty. Fed up, in 2008, I sold the machine with less then 600 hours on it. I now run a BC 2000xl and don't have any drum issues. It weighs a lot. Don't try towing it with a pickup truck. The Bobcat can't even pick up the tongue.


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## imagineero (Feb 24, 2014)

HappyTreesLLC said:


> Ye,
> I forgot, new 18" chipper is minimally $60,000
> You buy new, use for 5-6 years and sale it for $30,000.
> So chipper cost you $5,000 - $6,000 per year with ZERO problem.
> ...



That's entirely true, except that as a startup guy you don't have the capital, the work, or the credit to buy new. So you buy what you can, when you can, repair it as you go, upgrade it as you can afford to. My first full size commercial truck was a real mess. It shouldn't have even been on the road. I lost count of how many times I replaced the head gaskets! Almost weekly. The heads had been done and decked, but the block couldn't come out of the chassis because it wasn't the original engine and the block needed skimming! Head gaskets were $40, so I swapped 'em out when she started getting water in the cylinders each time. I bought that truck for $5,000 and over the year and a half I owned it I paid more than $20,000 in repairs keeping it on the road. I sold it for $2,000 to a guy who exported it to Africa. On paper, that's a huge loss. But it got me started, and I didn't have money to buy anything better. Wish I could say I missed that thing, but I'm so glad it's gone. Memories of being out there under the body with skinned knuckles and grease all over me at midnight, wondering if I could get the thing going again before morning or if I'd have to cancel the job is extra stress you don't need! I think I kept that thing on the road by sheer force of will.

It made me a tonne of money though, a lot more than I ever could of made without a truck. So when the money was there I replaced it with a late model modern truck, 25 years newer with a full service history and low miles. Haven't done a thing to it in almost 2 years besides tyres and oil changes.


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## imagineero (Feb 24, 2014)

Dillweed said:


> Vermeer drums have a separate warranty. In 2004 I bought a new BC1000xl. It will take a 12" log, but is does not like it. No kidding, the drum was replaced four times under warranty. Fed up, in 2008, I sold the machine with less then 600 hours on it. I now run a BC 2000xl and don't have any drum issues. It weighs a lot. Don't try towing it with a pickup truck. The Bobcat can't even pick up the tongue.



I used to run a bc1000XL, the older one with the plastic cowl. Realistically it's more like a 10" than a 12. I've got a 250XP now, which is a whole lot more machine in every way.... has more than double the hours that the bc1000xl had, but it takes a much heavier workload than the old machine and gives very few problems besides normal wear and tear. Having lift is very nice. One thing I do miss about the vermeer is the weight! 4,400lbs towed real nice. 250XP is almost 6,000lbs, and my truck suffers towing it.


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## gorman (Feb 24, 2014)

That's strange. I have a bandit 200 and it says it weighs 6700 lbs


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## HappyTreesLLC (Feb 24, 2014)

imagineero said:


> ... a start-up guy you don't have the capital, the work, or the credit to buy new...


Not entirely true. I don't know about Australia, but here in USA dealers always have financial institutions baking them up. Good dealer will run extra mile to find financing so he/she can make the sale. It is more like a personal feeling of start-up guys afraid to take $60k for chipper + $40K for truck + $60K for bucket truck + $30K for ground machine .... ++++. It is big step to jump into unknown, leap of fate if you will, take huge loans. When I did it I was thinking: if I don't make it - let the banks worry about.



imagineero said:


> ... I lost count of how many times I replaced the head gaskets! ...


 I had firewood truck like this. I know the filling. 



imagineero said:


> ... I bought that truck for $5,000 and over the year and a half I owned it I paid more than $20,000 in repairs keeping it on the road. ... ... I'd have to cancel the job is extra stress you don't need! ...


So back to $25k per first year. 



imagineero said:


> ... I sold it for $2,000 to a guy who exported it to Africa ...


Poor Africans. Have you try to sale to scrap metal.

In some way I am envy you guys in Australia. You have 4x4 and 6x6 cab over commercial trucks widely available. Like Isuzu, Mitsu etc. Too bad it is right hand drive.



imagineero said:


> ... I used to run a bc1000XL, the older one with the plastic cowl. ...


I still have one. It is my back yard chipper. Because it is SO light I can bring to back yards with out lawn damages.



imagineero said:


> ... Realistically it's more like a 10" than a 12. ...


Totally agree. It was made as 10" this is why it is BC1000XL not BC1200XL. But it still occasionally can chew 12" wood.



imagineero said:


> ... I've got a 250XP now, which is a whole lot more machine in every way.... ...


It weight and cost like BC1400XL. No wonder.



imagineero said:


> ... One thing I do miss about the vermeer is the weight! 4,400lbs towed real nice ...


Vermeer is best value. Best spend dollar per capacity with less weight. $30K can get you new 12" capacity and weight only 4,400 lb. Same logic apply to BC1400XL.
Espesialy BC1800XL. Under $60K (new) with winch for 18" chipper (realicticly opening is 20"x24") and it is weight under 10,000 lb. So you can tow with 26,000LB truck with NO CDL. Compare other brands: $80-90-100K for 18" (actually opening 18") and weight 12,000 + lb.



imagineero said:


> ... 250XP is almost 6,000lbs, and my truck suffers towing it.


I see bigger truck in your future.


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## capetrees (Feb 24, 2014)

Truebanditfan1 said:


> Forgot, new drum is minimally $6,000


 
Keep going. I replaced a drum and bearings on a BC1000 year and a half ago and that cost me $6K. The 1800 has a much larger drum and bearings. I'd say more like $8k-$10K.

The damage does seem to be a rarity. I don't understand why an internal weld would go other than it wasn't welded properly to begin with. There are hndreds of welds in a machine and many of them along wear areas. Inside the drum isn't a wear area.


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