# saw logs vs verneer



## jrcat (Apr 6, 2013)

OK I am hoping I might be able to get some info as I am still fairly green. I recently got into a stand a fairly large red oak and cherry. They are averaging 24" at the stump (some are up to 42") and are straight clean and limb free up to 50 feet tall. So my question is how do I go about finding out what I have? Should I just cut them and put them out to bid?


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## Oldtimer (Apr 6, 2013)

Most concentration yards buy mixed loads and scale / grade them as they are offloaded from the truck.

Do you have a skidder? Do you know how to get them down without splitting or pulling big tails from the log? Do you have a trucker you can trust? I ask only because a newbie can get himself in deep shizz in a real hurry.


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## jrcat (Apr 6, 2013)

Yes to all of the above. Well I skid with a td8e dresser. Land owner does not want a skidder in his woods


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## Oldtimer (Apr 6, 2013)

No skidder allowed? Wet ground?
If it's wet I can understand, otherwise it's just silly.


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## timberland ts (Apr 7, 2013)

Find a good buyer ive got two guys that will come out and check a load for me if im unsure. A couple of feet can mean a couple hundred when workn with high grade.


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## jrcat (Apr 7, 2013)

Wet ground and the last guy that took some stuff out left 3 foot deep ruts


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## palogger (Apr 7, 2013)

If possible skid the logs out tree length, or just cut them where they crotch, or large knots are and let the mill come out and mark them where they want them cut


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## palogger390 (Apr 7, 2013)

I would have a veneer buyer look at the higher quality trees before you buck them into log lengths. Sometimes they'll buy veneer in double lengths. We have sold veneer as long as 29 foot. And don't be afraid to get a few guys to look at them. Every buyer usually has niche in the market and each one is looking for specific logs. 

I would be leery about just trucking your logs to a log yard or mill. If you don't like their log bid you have to make the choice whether it is worth paying to truck your logs somewhere else or just take a beating...

Good Luck


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## jrcat (Apr 7, 2013)

I have no intention on having them trucked to a yard. Unfortunately we are limited on mills around here. The only major hardwood mill in the area now is Gutchess hardwoods in Freedom NY and Ram forest products or Bradford forest products. I am not sure if Ram or Bradford buys wood that did not come from their own jobs. I know that Sabella lumber in tideutte pa would buy from me. I just need to find the Names of the verneer buyers. I plan on keeping a majority of the pole wood or trading it off for trucking if I need too. There is Globe Metalurgical in NiagraFalls that buys the pole wood by the ton. I have a friend with a log truck that sells to them on a regular basis. The company I work part time for used to buy pole wood when we chipped full time but those markets have evaporated as fast as they came about here.


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## Oldtimer (Apr 7, 2013)

Good advice about getting the buyers to come look on the site, and I would advise to have them look at the wood as it stands- before cutting them off the stump: This allows them to see all around the logs, lets them know for sure the quality..Just be sure to have an IRON CLAD contract in hand before you let buyers on the lot. There are snakes that will cut your throat if they can.
Be sure the contract states you get, say, $3000 in cash if the landowner wishes to break the contract. This covers your time and expenses and give the landowner pause about letting another logger / buyer snake the wood away.


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## jrcat (Apr 7, 2013)

Where abouts are you guys located in pa? palogger and palogger390 ?


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## palogger390 (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm from Cameron County, which is in north central PA. My father and I contract log primarily, but we also buy some of our own timber as well. 

I think RAM and Bradford both buy logs on the landing. If their yards are not crammed like everyone else in the area. I think Danzer owns Bradford Forest and they have a veneer division.


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## palogger (Apr 9, 2013)

Im located in Warren County. Do you personally know the sabellas? where abouts in new york are you located? or more precisely where abouts is this job located


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## jrcat (Apr 9, 2013)

I know Alex. He seems to be a good guy. Im working in Falconer. Ive tried to get a hold of Alex to see if he was interested in my logs but I cant get in touch with him.


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## jrcat (Apr 9, 2013)

I was offered a buck a foot on the grade one cherry , $1.20 a foot on grade one red oak. $875 per thousand on hard maple and $700 per thousand on ash. 
Now veneer $5 per foot on cherry $3 per foot on hard maple $2 per foot on red oak. and $1.20 per foot on ash. I think thats what I've got so far without looking at my notes.


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## Oldtimer (Apr 9, 2013)

jrcat said:


> I was offered a buck a foot on the grade one cherry , $1.20 a foot on grade one red oak. $875 per thousand on hard maple and $700 per thousand on ash.
> Now veneer $5 per foot on cherry $3 per foot on hard maple $2 per foot on red oak. and $1.20 per foot on ash. I think thats what I've got so far without looking at my notes.



Are there various grades of veneer, or is it a straight through price?

Regardless, I would kill kittens to be offered that kind of money for my hardwood...if I had any as nice as you guys tend to have. I don't, more's the pity..

$5,000 per thousand is huge money...now if they will take pity on you and toss you a veneer sugar maple now and then...the scaler can rob you any number of ways..


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## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

Im going to be right there with the scaler Oldtimer. I told this buyer in no uncertain terms that if he burns me I will do anything short of having the skin from his hiney for my next wallet in retaliation. Some of these guys around here just pile up thier logs the truck comes then next week they get a check in the mail and they call it good .


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## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

I know a little ....percentage of sweep knots and cat faces how big the hearts are. I just dont know enough .


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## Oldtimer (Apr 10, 2013)

Generally speaking, the log yard with lots of wood coming in is the yard that is fair with it's scale, grade, and pricing. Beyond that, it's got a lot to do with how well you and your trucker are liked.
If the trucker never has to be told where to drop wood, or how to place it..meaning he doesn't create needless work for the scaler / yard men..little things add up. And the more you send in the better the scale gets.

Post up some pictures Jr. Like to see what you're working with.


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## jrcat (Apr 10, 2013)

As soon as I can figure out how to post pics off my phone onto here I will. My first load had 4150 feet on. Needless to say it was a touch bit on the HEAVY side. The little TD8 had a hard push to get the truck out:hmm3grin2orange:. I chose to hold the veneer for a better buyer I guess some of the cherry could go for export and up to $8 a foot. I have 1000 feet of possible cherry veneer. the one buyer only wanted to give me $3 per foot on the veneer cherry. I wrote down the tag numbers , the scales and took pictures. So I'll see how it goes.


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## jrcat (Apr 11, 2013)

View attachment 289854
View attachment 289855
My fist load of this site and the but end of a large red oak


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## floyd (Apr 12, 2013)

Can he raise that back axle when he isn't heavy?

Nice looking load.


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## jrcat (Apr 12, 2013)

yep air up and air down. he figured that load to weigh about 23 to 24 ton. Just a wee bit over gross lol


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## jrcat (Apr 12, 2013)

The truck is a 379 pete with a 550 C15 cat and an 18 spd and a way older than the truck and wore out 120C prentice loader.


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## jrcat (Apr 12, 2013)

The butt log didnt split . ok well mostly didnt split when the top hit the ground, the crotch collapsed and that split it from the crotch down


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## jrcat (Apr 12, 2013)

I bored out the center from the face cut so as not get get any pull outs. And yes I have a short bar 20". Probably also short on brains at times lol. Never figured I would need much more of a bar then that. I guess its time to get out the 372 and get a 24" bar on it.


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## jrcat (Apr 12, 2013)

Ive been boring out the centers now for some time at least on logs I want to sell. On yard trees I dont bore them out in the center. Depending on the location and lean of the tree I might bore in behind the hinge and cut my way out to the back side and leave a trigger so I have control or as much control as possible. The company I worked for also had a tree service so I got to learn a few tricks there. Even in an open field they would take a tree down from the top to the ground with the bucket truck. Which I still dont understand. Why not just drop it? lol But anyway I am almost done with the big trees on this job now I have about 2 more loads to cut.


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## jrcat (Apr 12, 2013)

I blame the water or the kilt or both LOL


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## jrcat (May 1, 2013)

I had a veneer sale today. This buyer was really fussy on the cherry. Out of 15 cherry logs he only took 3. But he took 16 out 20 red oak logs. Next monday a little less fussy buyer is coming for the "rotary" or 3 sided logs and from what I understand he will take 99% of whats left. I didnt do to bad for my first time out.


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## 1270d (May 1, 2013)

Did you ma age to pull any 5 dollar stuff? Just curious. Quite a few of the buyers around here show 5+ dollar sfor high grade, iI'm sure they pay it too but you just never can quite have a nice enough piece to get the grade. I figure the number is just there as a lure.


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## jrcat (May 1, 2013)

No I didnt . It has to be perfect like PERFECT. Of course this wont happen because with the cherry there is always going to be gum or mineral streaks or bird peck or some other defect that the guy is going to get you on. Just my observations so far .


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## treeslayer2003 (May 1, 2013)

jrcat said:


> I had a veneer sale today. This buyer was really fussy on the cherry. Out of 15 cherry logs he only took 3. But he took 16 out 20 red oak logs. Next monday a little less fussy buyer is coming for the "rotary" or 3 sided logs and from what I understand he will take 99% of whats left. I didnt do to bad for my first time out.



hey, cherry down here gets shake bad I always thought they were getting me on it till I had some sawed up it came apart like broom straws them guys know what their lookin at better than me any how but every tract is different you never know for sure what ya got till ya start cutting it
and like I always say any grade is better than saw


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## ryan_marine (May 2, 2013)

Been a while sence last post. I have been busy. I have found it better to have atleast 3 bidders if you can. It has been a long winter for me. Wish it would of been colder. I have sold the winter cut. Had 1 load that averaged 5.60 per foot. Was a real nice mix of oak and walnut. Total winter cut averaged was 1.13 per bf. I am real happy. Land owner is happier. They paid off their land and new house.

Ray


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## Oldtimer (May 3, 2013)

Good looking load of wood, and the oak is real nice!

Keep it up!


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