# 084 versus 090 versus 076



## john inglis (May 11, 2010)

hi , have not had much time with chainsaw mills and wondered which is the preferred saw , have both the 076 and 090 in reasonable condition but have a chance to pick up an 084 for a good price ( i hope ). do not have a mill but will probably build my own running the saw bar vertically . any ideas , would appreciate any info on 084 stihl for milling , thanks and have a nice day

ps , used to own a macquarie forestmill but no longer have or need that sort of setup .


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## BobL (May 11, 2010)

john inglis said:


> hi , have not had much time with chainsaw mills and wondered which is the preferred saw , have both the 076 and 090 in reasonable condition but have a chance to pick up an 084 for a good price ( i hope ). do not have a mill but will probably build my own running the saw bar vertically . any ideas , would appreciate any info on 084 stihl for milling , thanks and have a nice day
> 
> ps , used to own a macquarie forestmill but no longer have or need that sort of setup .



I remember this conversation earlier this year.

Here it is http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=121619 in Jan 2010

And here is a similar one http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=101785&highlight=076+880+090+084

What are you intending to mill?


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## john inglis (May 11, 2010)

*084*

hi bobl , still trying to work out what saw setup to use , been delayed by a decision to go solar to save on electricity costs and improve my self sufficiency , which then involved 50 yards of underground power,new steel power pole new front gates and gate posts ,pulling up all the front pavers and relaying after, new underground cables to the new front meter ,new stringers for the front steps which were freehand cut from a 30'' stringybark , stringers are 12'' x 3'' as are the steps , just the hole for the power pole took just over 8 hours , almost solid rock and 5' deep . 
a mate has a few big blackwood trunks i can cut and i need a lot more 12 x 3's for some other building projects as well as the other steps that need replacing . i was at the local chainsaw dealer today and he has an 084 that has compression and looks ok , no clutch cover but might not need that and i helped a mate cut up a 36'' to 43'' woollybutt with an 084 to get some slabs for his kitchen tops and it worked well ,impressive actually, single rail clamped to log with carriage bolted to bar doing vertical cuts using 5' bar ,log was about 9' , bloody heavy slabs even at 2.5'' thick . log was on slope behind his house and even cutting slightly uphill was pretty quick for the size of the timber , would have been even better downhill if access was easier .
the link was helpful , i was amazed that two power heads linked were not quicker . my problem with deciding which saw is complicated by my recently catching a bad case of cad , just bought 2 lovely old canadien 270's complete with original manuals so projects aplenty. hopefully i will bite the bullet soon as i dont want these logs to disappear on me as he has already snigged them out for me to mill so they are pretty tempting.thank you for the help and will let you know what happens .


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## mtngun (May 11, 2010)

One strike against the 084 is that some critical parts are no longer available. I guess the 084 was never that popular, and Stihl has chosen not to support the 084 the way they support some of the other old saws.

I'm still in the process of building my 084. Stopped by the dealer today and asked about the parts I'd ordered. He said the PTO bearing was no longer a valid part number. He said Stihl may have a substitute, though, so there is still a glimmer of hope. 

As another example, I've heard that 084 mufflers are no longer available from Stihl. Mufflers do wear out and have to be replaced from time to time. A guy can always make a pipe, though. 

Just thought I'd throw that out as an example of the parts issues you may encounter with an 084.

Other than that, the basic design is similar to Stihl's other late model pro saws -- simple and rugged.


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## BobL (May 11, 2010)

john inglis said:


> hi bobl , still trying to work out what saw setup to use , been delayed by a decision to go solar to save on electricity costs and improve my self sufficiency , which then involved 50 yards of underground power,new steel power pole new front gates and gate posts ,pulling up all the front pavers and relaying after, new underground cables to the new front meter ,new stringers for the front steps which were freehand cut from a 30'' stringybark , stringers are 12'' x 3'' as are the steps , just the hole for the power pole took just over 8 hours , almost solid rock and 5' deep .



That does sound like you have been busy!



> a mate has a few big blackwood trunks i can cut and i need a lot more 12 x 3's for some other building projects as well as the other steps that need replacing . i was at the local chainsaw dealer today and he has an 084 that has compression and looks ok , no clutch cover but might not need that and i helped a mate cut up a 36'' to 43'' woollybutt with an 084 to get some slabs for his kitchen tops and it worked well ,impressive actually, single rail clamped to log with carriage bolted to bar doing vertical cuts using 5' bar ,log was about 9' , bloody heavy slabs even at 2.5'' thick . log was on slope behind his house and even cutting slightly uphill was pretty quick for the size of the timber , would have been even better downhill if access was easier .



I have both a rail and alaskan type mills and for a whole lot of reasons I reckon the alaskan beats the rail mill for ease of use and I now only use the rail mill to break up big slabs.

You won't need the clutch cover but you will need something that directs the sawdust away from the saw and operator otherwise the sawdust goes all over the place. This is what I did for my 880.






If you look in the CS101 sticky you will see what Aggiewoodbutcher has done on an 084 to redirect sawdust.

While you are at it a muffler mod is worth doing to redirect the exhaust as well


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## cgarman (May 17, 2010)

I'm running the 076AV, and the one thing I've noticed is that it's tough to top off the gas while in the cut. If you run out mid-slab, the opening for the tank is now on the side (since the saw is rotated.) I've been able to put about a half tank in, but on several occasions I spilled it into the air filter, causing more mess.

I'd recommend NOT running out in mid-cut, even if that means checking fuel before each pass.

Other than that, I've been happy with the setup.


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## john inglis (May 19, 2010)

*084 backfire on startup*

hi everyone, had a bit of luck with the 084 , he let me have it for $250 AU as it was, got it home and cleaned her up , looks a little untidy (plastics discolored) but pulled muffler and p/c looks great , cleaned air filter and inlet was clean ,clean fuel and oil and she nearly ripped my arm off , wearing a compress on my elbow as i type . even my fingers are hurting .heaps of compression and no elasto . she fired up and revs clean but pulling it over can be fun . got it going by holding decompressor down thru half of starting pull . saw may have been flooded or is flooding causing compression increase , not sure yet but will try again when my elbow recovers , 090 and 076 are babies by comparison to start .


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## dallasm1 (May 19, 2010)

john inglis said:


> hi everyone, had a bit of luck with the 084 , he let me have it for $250 AU as it was, got it home and cleaned her up , looks a little untidy (plastics discolored) but pulled muffler and p/c looks great , cleaned air filter and inlet was clean ,clean fuel and oil and she nearly ripped my arm off , wearing a compress on my elbow as i type . even my fingers are hurting .heaps of compression and no elasto . she fired up and revs clean but pulling it over can be fun . got it going by holding decompressor down thru half of starting pull . saw may have been flooded or is flooding causing compression increase , not sure yet but will try again when my elbow recovers , 090 and 076 are babies by comparison to start .




Even with decomp, you must assume a MANLY demeanor (with stern grimace) in order to start the 84..... otherwise you WILL get bit! Great Price!


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## mtngun (May 19, 2010)

john inglis said:


> hi everyone, had a bit of luck with the 084 , he let me have it for $250 AU as it was, got it home and cleaned her up , looks a little untidy (plastics discolored) but pulled muffler and p/c looks great , cleaned air filter and inlet was clean ,clean fuel and oil and she nearly ripped my arm off , wearing a compress on my elbow as i type ..


The 084 has a very low compression ratio, unless yours is weird. 

But, it sounds like you got a heck of a deal. Let's see some milling pics -- when your elbow heals.


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## BobL (May 19, 2010)

john inglis said:


> hi everyone, had a bit of luck with the 084 , he let me have it for $250 AU as it was, got it home and cleaned her up , looks a little untidy (plastics discolored) but pulled muffler and p/c looks great , cleaned air filter and inlet was clean ,clean fuel and oil and she nearly ripped my arm off , wearing a compress on my elbow as i type . even my fingers are hurting .heaps of compression and no elasto . she fired up and revs clean but pulling it over can be fun . got it going by holding decompressor down thru half of starting pull . saw may have been flooded or is flooding causing compression increase , not sure yet but will try again when my elbow recovers , 090 and 076 are babies by comparison to start .



Great score john. 

If you can it would be good to get some pics up on this thread.


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## john inglis (May 20, 2010)

*084*

will try to get pics monday as am busy cutting firewood tomorrow and am away weekend but will try to get pics of all the saws as i have got rid of a few lately and should get pics before any more go,also got an email from the guy i bought the canadien 270 's from and it seems he is a bit stroppy as i have not picked saws up , have arranged parcel pickup for tomorrow hopefully , should check emails more regularly but hard when not home .


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## phred45 (Jun 30, 2010)

*076 AV what bar size?*



cgarman said:


> I'm running the 076AV, and the one thing I've noticed is that it's tough to top off the gas while in the cut. If you run out mid-slab, the opening for the tank is now on the side (since the saw is rotated.) I've been able to put about a half tank in, but on several occasions I spilled it into the air filter, causing more mess.
> 
> I'd recommend NOT running out in mid-cut, even if that means checking fuel before each pass.
> 
> Other than that, I've been happy with the setup.



Hi everyone,
I'm new to this site and chain saw milling. The 076 AV is a powerhead only, needs a bar. I have looked for bars but can't find the 076 AV mentioned. Will a 3/8" 050 work? Also what chain would you recommend for milling on an Alskan mill mostly Cedar, some Oak and Pine for dimentional lumber.


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## smokinj (Jun 30, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I'm new to this site and chain saw milling. The 076 AV is a powerhead only, needs a bar. I have looked for bars but can't find the 076 AV mentioned. Will a 3/8" 050 work? Also what chain would you recommend for milling on an Alskan mill mostly Cedar, some Oak and Pine for dimentional lumber.



I think the 076 is a stihl large mount bar and 3/8-063 is what you will find for it. Yep confirm it is a large mount bar


http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=BAWP 42 BS63


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## mtngun (Jun 30, 2010)

No experience with the 076av but presume it takes the large Stihl mount, same as 084/088/880/090. All those bars will be 0.063" gage, doubt if you will run across a 0.050". 

0.063" x 3/8" ripping chain would be a good choice. At least one of our members prefers to run 0.063" x 0.325" on the big saws, but it's harder to come by.

Most of us run Bailey's Woodland Pro ripping chain. Granberg ripping chain is supposed to be a little better, but for a lot more money.


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## BlueRider (Jun 30, 2010)

Defineately .0623 guage. The 076 came with 404 pitch, and most likely it is has a rim sprocket so chainging to 3/8 only requires a new rim sprcket. The saw has enough torque to pull a 9 pin but you will probably only be able to find an 8 pin. if yor saw has a spur drive you wil need to swith clutch drums to convert to 3/8 pitch. be sure to match the nose sprocket to your drive sprocket or go with a roller tip if you can find one.

Most people here run 3/8 with a few running 3.25, I am in the minority and run 404 pitch on my 075. BobL did some tests recently on measuring the kerf on different chain and it was not as much different as the pre-concieved ideas that most people had.

I have both Oregon and Granberg ripping chain and the difference is a slightly smother surface in the Granberg. I don't care for the granberg chais because it needs to be sparpened more offten and it taes longer to sharpen. twhat ever Bailiey's is selling is the best deal and it works great.

Also Bailey's will have more parts for for saw than what is listed on their web site, call and ask for what ever you need, they are very knowlegable.


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## super3 (Jun 30, 2010)

Hey John....


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## phred45 (Jun 30, 2010)

Thanks for the advise. I've seen a few .063 36" bars. Any advise on the brands? Oregon , Stihl, Carlton or Woodland? Should I go with solid or laminated? What's a good bar for the money?


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## mtngun (Jun 30, 2010)

Any of the name brand bars are satisfactory.

Just be sure to get a sprocket nose, not a hard nose.


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## phred45 (Jul 8, 2010)

*Measuring the drive sprocket on the 076*

Hello again,
Can you tell me how to measure the drive sprocket on my 076 av. Since I bought it used I'm not sure what's on it, it came without a bar. I have a clutch removal tool and manual ordered. Is there a way to tell without removing the clutch drum? 
It seem to be a nice saw, starts very easy. Never had anything so powerful, can't wait to be able to use it. My wife made me get some chaps just in case. She has a little Stihl MS 180 and just loves it. She never could start the bigger saws and got tired of waiting for me to have time.
Thanks for all your help. This site is awsome.


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## mtngun (Jul 8, 2010)

No experience with the 076, but the size or the Stihl part number should be stamped on the sprocket somewhere.


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## BobL (Jul 8, 2010)

I agree the 076 is a great saw. The one thing that kinda irks me about it is the mix fill cap location means it is not possible to refill the tank while it is in a CS mill.

RE: Drive sprocket
I presume you wish to purchase a replacement?
If so all you need to know is the pitch size which is determined by the chain which can be identified by a number stamped on it somewhere.


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## phred45 (Jul 8, 2010)

Unfortunately I don't have a bar or chain. I bought it on E-Bay, powerhead only. So I don't know if the previous owner ran 3/8" or .404" 
I guess I'll have to wait until I get the clutch tool.

Would it work to refill the gas tank partially to get to the end of a board or does that ruin the boards?


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## BobL (Jul 8, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Unfortunately I don't have a bar or chain. I bought it on E-Bay, powerhead only. So I don't know if the previous owner ran 3/8" or .404"
> I guess I'll have to wait until I get the clutch tool.


The other way to work out what the sprocket is would be to use a caliper to measure the diameter and compare it to know sprocket sizes, but you would have to get someone else to measure the diameter of 375 or 404 (that's the most likely sizes it would be) because I am on the other side of the world from my 076.



> Would it work to refill the gas tank partially to get to the end of a board or does that ruin the boards?


That's what I have been been doing - the other thing I have been meaning to do is find one of those right angle mix tank fillers that are used for the concrete cutting versions of the 076.


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## mtngun (Jul 8, 2010)

Most of the time you'll have enough gas to finish one board. At least, that's true of most milling saws, most of the time.

Maybe the 076 is a special case, but most chainsaw clutches can be removed without special tools.

Is the sprocket on the outside of the clutch ? Is it a spur sprocket or a rim sprocket ? A pic would help.

If it has a spur sprocket, I'd suggest converting it to a rim. 

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=ORF+22262X&catID=364


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## smokinj (Jul 8, 2010)

If I had to bet I would say 404.


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## BobL (Jul 8, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Most of the time you'll have enough gas to finish one board. At least, that's true of most milling saws, most of the time.
> 
> Maybe the 076 is a special case, but most chainsaw clutches can be removed without special tools.
> 
> Is the sprocket on the outside of the clutch ? Is it a spur sprocket or a rim sprocket ? A pic would help.


It has an inboard clutch and special tool is required but you can make it your self. 
Here is an example made by AS member Martrix. There is a large but welded onto the other side that is turned with a spanner or socket.








> If it has a spur sprocket, I'd suggest converting it to a rim.
> http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=ORF+22262X&catID=364


That's what I did with mine.

BTW there are pics in this thread that show where the sizes and part numbers are located on the clutch drum.


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## phred45 (Jul 9, 2010)

Thanks a lot. Especially for the pics. I try to get some pics later. Got to work for a while 
The sprocket is a rim sprocket with 7 slots. I got the nut off the clutch drum but can't get the drum off. E-bay has a new clutch drum for 3/8" for $35 from a guy named "cheapchainsawparts". If mine turns out to be .404 should I convert to 3/8" since all I want to do is milling? What else would I need to change for that?


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## BobL (Jul 9, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Thanks a lot. Especially for the pics. I try to get some pics later. Got to work for a while
> The sprocket is a rim sprocket with 7 slots. I got the nut off the clutch drum but can't get the drum off. E-bay has a new clutch drum for 3/8" for $35 from a guy named "cheapchainsawparts". If mine turns out to be .404 should I convert to 3/8" since all I want to do is milling? What else would I need to change for that?



I suspect it will be a 404 and yes I would convert to 3/8. Whether you can switch to 3/8 just by changing the rim sprocket depends on whether you have already bought a bar.

If you have not bought a bar make sure you get one with a sprocket nose to suit 3/8 chain


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## phred45 (Jul 9, 2010)

Haven't bought a bar yet. The clutchdrum on E-Bay says it is for 8 slots that might be a problem.


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## phred45 (Jul 9, 2010)

Here are some pictures of my 076 AV. Hope that helps.


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## mtngun (Jul 9, 2010)

Thanks for the pics, phred45, and thanks for the tool explanation, BobL.

The good news is that you already have a rim-type clutch drum. Unless it is worn out, there is no need to replace it.

If the rim turns out to be 404, then you just swap in a 3/8 x 8 rim, which costs all of $3 at Baileys, or a few bucks more at your local dealer.

$3 rim

If the rim turns out to be 3/8, then you are good to go, except ....... it's a good idea to install a new rim about once a year, because they do wear and that can cause problems.

Plus, you'll probably want to move to an 8 tooth rim, rather than a 7, depending on what size wood you'll be milling.

Let's see if I can find some rim diameters for you. A 404 x 7 rim is 1.52" OD. A 3/8 x 7 is 1.38" OD.

Any leads on an affordable bar ? What length are you wanting ?

I'm in the same boat, looking for a bar to fit the big Stihls, and not finding any screaming bargains on sprocket nose bars. Perhaps I'll go with a 36" Carlton that's on closeout at Baileys. It's set up with a 404 nose, but a 3/8 nose can be purchased separately and the overall price is still decent. I just gotta scrape together the money -- you know how that goes.


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## phred45 (Jul 9, 2010)

Finally weekend! The rim is defenitely .404 x 7 the diameter is 1.5".
Unfortunately I bent the clutchdrum trying to get it off without a proper tool, so now I have to buy one. Learning from mistakes. The link below has the one I saw on E-Bay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360235922180&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I'm looking at a 36" bar with rip chain. Most of the trees are about 10 to 24 " in diameter there will be a few bigger ones but not many. We have some really big pines but a lot of them are slowly dying from pine borers, it's very sad to watch. Felling them is difficult, they will take out a lot of other trees so we probably just leave them for the wild life. We are building a polebarn for storage, tractor, equipment and wood.
Scraping the pennies is very familiar that's why we aren't buying the wood and having anything cut at small lumber mills around here is prohibitive. This way we only have to buy the hardware and the metal roofing.
Thanks to you guys, I'll be making less mistakes and hopefully save some money.


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## mtngun (Jul 9, 2010)

The $35 ebay drum and rim would work, but the $17 Bailey's drum and rim would work, too. Your choice. 

I hear you on pinching pennies. For the next few months, all my time and money will be sucked up by construction projects. Except for emergency repairs, saw projects will have to go on the back burner until winter.

BTW, what part of Arkansas are you in ? You mentioned pines, so I'm guessing central Ark ? Helena was my hometown, also spent some time in Pine Bluff and Sulfur Springs. I don't miss the heat, the humidity, the insects, or the culture, but I sure miss the hardwoods and cypress. At the time, hardwoods were being logged aggressively, but dead cypress was left to rot or float away during spring floods. There seemed to be little appreciation for cypress then, it was little more than a weed tree. And now -- man, I'd love to have a few cypress logs to mill. Think of all the things you could do with cypress.


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## phred45 (Jul 10, 2010)

Thanks. $ 17 at Bailey's sounds great. Then all I need is the matching drive sprocket, right? Does the needle cage bearing need replacing? Any ideas what else I should check before I get started?

Actually I'm from Fort Smith, born and raised. My wife hates it and I agree but we are stuck here. The land we bought is north of Charleston. Most of our trees are big red cedar trees, not like up north but pretty good size. Some Oak and some Pine. We also have a few Black Locust and Hickory trees but they don't seem to get very old and are all pretty small. An old homestead has a couple big old Kentucky Coffee trees and an old stone chimney, well over 100 years old. One of the trees will have to be cut it is very old and breaking. The wood is beautiful and we tried to offer it to wood carvers but nobody is interested. I guess we'll save it for later.
No insects sounds like heaven where do you live? We can't even get into the woods to work without spraying against ticks and chiggers first.


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## mtngun (Jul 10, 2010)

The Baileys drum kit includes a rim sprocket. When you add the drum to your shopping cart, it'll ask you to specify which rim you want.

I'm in Idaho. We do have deer ticks, and I've contracted Lyme disease twice. Yellow jackets and flies are pretty thick in the late summer. But all in all, not enough insects to complain about.

The chiggers were pretty bad when I lived in Sulfur Springs. Scorpions, too, that came out at night. If you had to get up in the middle of the night to make a trip to the bathroom, there would be scorpions scurrying across the floor. Before you put your shoes on, you had to shake them to make sure there were no scorpions inside. And then there were the snakes ......


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## BIG JAKE (Jul 11, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Thanks. $ 17 at Bailey's sounds great. Then all I need is the matching drive sprocket, right? Does the needle cage bearing need replacing? Any ideas what else I should check before I get started?
> 
> Actually I'm from Fort Smith, born and raised. My wife hates it and I agree but we are stuck here. The land we bought is north of Charleston. Most of our trees are big red cedar trees, not like up north but pretty good size. Some Oak and some Pine. We also have a few Black Locust and Hickory trees but they don't seem to get very old and are all pretty small. An old homestead has a couple big old Kentucky Coffee trees and an old stone chimney, well over 100 years old. One of the trees will have to be cut it is very old and breaking. The wood is beautiful and we tried to offer it to wood carvers but nobody is interested. I guess we'll save it for later.
> No insects sounds like heaven where do you live? We can't even get into the woods to work without spraying against ticks and chiggers first.



I'd like to have some pen turning blanks out of that. Amazing no takers from carvers. Could be no one has experience turning it if it's a rare tree and thus no value. 
I have a new Jet mini lathe in the shop now I just need to learn to use it. I put my youngest daughter Jessica thru a wood turning class and she has turned out a nice pen and wine stopper out of lacewood so far. 
PM me if you wouldn't mind sending a small block of the stuff out-

Here is a link I found with some pictures of the wood.
http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-281-W.pdf


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## betterbuilt (Jul 11, 2010)

BIG JAKE said:


> Here is a link I found with some pictures of the wood.
> http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-281-W.pdf




Here's another link to some coffee tree wood pictures.

http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/coffee tree.htm
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## phred45 (Jul 11, 2010)

The Coffee tree is still standing. I'll try to get come pics for you next time I'm out. Then you can tell me what part you may want and how much. How would one ship that? You can e-mail me direct to phred45 .at. juno.com.

I've got another question on the saw blade for the 076. So far I am looking 
the following parts for changing to 3/8" ( thanks mtngun) :
Oregon Power Mate Rim & Drum •Stihl 050, 051, 075, 076

•Replaces Part Number 1111 640 2025 and 0000 642 1206

•Fits Crankshaft Diameter .5512 (14mm)

•Drive Sprocket Bearing N/A

•Rims Spline Size Standard 7 Spline (RSD) and at .375 x 8 tooth configuration replacement for Stihl 0000 642 1216

Will the 36" Carlton Premium Sprocket Tip Bar (36-57-B3104-PS) .404 x .063 chainsaw chain work if I replace the nose sprocket with a 3/8? 

Sorry, this is all still confusing to me.


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## phred45 (Jul 11, 2010)

*Bench sharpener ?*

Still another question. Granberg has the chains and I am thinking of getting 3 so my wife can sharpen them while I cut. She would like a bench sharpener. What would you suggest that is pretty fool proof since we have no experience. Will the same sharpener also do her small chains for the Stihl MS 180?


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## betterbuilt (Jul 11, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Will the 36" Carlton Premium Sprocket Tip Bar (36-57-B3104-PS) .404 x .063 chainsaw chain work if I replace the nose sprocket with a 3/8?



I'm gonna answer the question I know the answers to. Your right on the bar. 
If you change the sprocket you can run 3/8 .063 chain


Still another question. Granberg has the chains and I am thinking of getting 3 so my wife can sharpen them while I cut. She would like a bench sharpener. What would you suggest that is pretty fool proof since we have no experience. Will the same sharpener also do her small chains for the Stihl MS 180? 


I'm not gonna recommend a grinder but I have a cheap northern tool one and it does an okay job for the price. 

I used to change chains after every two cuts. I had a old logger watching me and he asked me why I don't file the chain. To make a long story short he filed it for me and I couldn't believe how well it cut. I actually think it cut better than a new chain. I soon learned a quick hand file in between cuts made it cut even better than a grinding job. It takes more time to change a chain than to file it. All I'm saying is give hand filing a try. Get yourself a box of files and a grinder. I'm told that a hand file can make a chain sharper than a grinder. After a cut I set my saw to the side and let it cool while I'm moving the last board. Then I file it and gas it up for the next cut. 

Most grinder can take different size grinding wheels so you can grind your wifes saw also. You do want to make sure the grinder can tilt so you can grind ripping chain.


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## mtngun (Jul 11, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Will the 36" Carlton Premium Sprocket Tip Bar (36-57-B3104-PS) .404 x .063 chainsaw chain work if I replace the nose sprocket with a 3/8?


Yep, get the Oregon Power Match Tip.

That's the same bar & tip I'll probably end up getting for my 084. 



> She would like a bench sharpener. What would you suggest that is pretty fool proof since we have no experience. Will the same sharpener also do her small chains for the Stihl MS 180?


Nothing too good for the wife, eh ? 

There's no right or wrong answer. A better question might be, how much does your wife want to spend ? 

I've got the Tecomec Jolly Star (same as Bailey's Speed Sharp) and it makes good chains, but I wouldn't say it's fool proof. It very, very easy to break the vise base, and the angle marks are tough to see on the right hand side. But, now that I've become familiar with it, it's easy to turn out good chains. 

If money is an issue, some people are happy with the Northern Tool clone of the Oregon 511, for about $100. As with most chinese stuff, quality is a crap shoot, and you may have to do some repairs or mods to get it working satisfactorily. Lots of threads on the NT grinder.


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## phred45 (Jul 11, 2010)

Looked on other threads.
What do you think of this one for sharpening between boards while milling?
Oregon 23736A Professional Chain Saw Bar-Mount Filing Guide
Can't afford the $300 plus jobs right now. Would the Northern Industrial Bench- or Wall-Mount Saw Chain Sharpener do the job well enough?


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## smokinj (Jul 11, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Looked on other threads.
> What do you think of this one for sharpening between boards while milling?
> Oregon 23736A Professional Chain Saw Bar-Mount Filing Guide
> Can't afford the $300 plus jobs right now. Would the Northern Industrial Bench- or Wall-Mount Saw Chain Sharpener do the job well enough?




I run with 3 chains seem to make it for 4-6 hours. Then sharpen them at night and have them ready for the next time.Its a oregan 511a I got off ebay used for 200.00


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## betterbuilt (Jul 11, 2010)

phred45 said:


> What do you think of this one for sharpening between boards while milling?
> Oregon 23736A Professional Chain Saw Bar-Mount Filing Guide


Granberg makes one that is similar to that one also. I just use a file and a handle. Its up to you. 


phred45 said:


> Can't afford the $300 plus jobs right now. Would the Northern Industrial Bench- or Wall-Mount Saw Chain Sharpener do the job well enough?



It works but Its not a three hundred dollar sharpener. I haven't used it to much. It'll sharpen your chain. Like mtngun said its a crap shoot. Mine seems to be fine but I read a bunch of the comments about it and some people were complaining. I got what I paid for. You might want to practice on some crappy chain before you go trying it out on a new chain there's a learning curve. They can take a lot off in a hurry. 


I also have a cheap $20 sharpener that I was using and it did the job also, it just didn't quite give me the right angles for ripping chain.


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## phred45 (Jul 13, 2010)

Thanks to all of you everything is ordered and should be here hopefully before the weekend. My wife can't wait to see if she can start the big saw when it's in the mill. She is a small woman but loves being out working in the woods.
Are there any threads on auxiliary blade oilers? Should I get one? Couldn't find one at Bailey's.

This is off thread but have any of you ever used a propane burner to clear ditches and fence rows of brush and weeds? The brambles here are horrible and nothing seems to kill them. The ground is very rocky and kills weed eaters.


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## BobL (Jul 13, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Thanks to all of you everything is ordered and should be here hopefully before the weekend. My wife can't wait to see if she can start the big saw when it's in the mill. She is a small woman but loves being out working in the woods.
> Are there any threads on auxiliary blade oilers? Should I get one? Couldn't find one at Bailey's.



These are very easy to make yourself.

The simplest ones I have made have been made from $10 worth of irrigation plumbing fittings, a piece of scrap metal and a bolt. 
Have a look here.


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## mtngun (Jul 13, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Are there any threads on auxiliary blade oilers? Should I get one? Couldn't find one at Bailey's.


An aux oiler is very desirable. Bailey's aux oiler. The granberg oiler is mostly OK, except 1) I'd rather have a ball valve than a needle valve and 2) use a dripper instead of the supplied "injector." The injector tends to plug up.



> This is off thread but have any of you ever used a propane burner to clear ditches and fence rows of brush and weeds? The brambles here are horrible and nothing seems to kill them.


Locally the road crew sprays blackberry bushes to kill them, dunno what they use. Have you tried Roundup ? Otherwise, get a few goats to eat the weeds, then eat the goats.


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## BobL (Jul 13, 2010)

mtngun said:


> An aux oiler is very desirable. Bailey's aux oiler. The granberg oiler is mostly OK, except 1) I'd rather have a ball valve than a needle valve and 2) use a dripper instead of the supplied "injector." The injector tends to plug up.



I agree about the drip being a better method than the injector. The drip also makes it slightly easier to remove the saw/bar. If you go the injector method I recommend a click fitting from a garden hose as a connector between the aux oil tank and tehthebar. 

Initially I use a single valve but found it was a pain having to adjust the flow rate every time I turned it on-off, so I set up two valves one as an on-off and the other as a flow control. But I still had the problem that the flow rate changes depending on the amount of oil left in the tank etc. Now I have a remote control valve that controlled via a bicycle gear lever and cable so I can make fine adjustments while I'm cutting.


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## phred45 (Jul 13, 2010)

BobL, your set up sounds interesting, do you have pics? I may go with the one on Bailey's for now. Also checked on the Canola prices here, they are cheaper than bar oil but olive oil is very expensive. Do you use it in the automatic oiler also?

A goat would be great, except that we are not there all the time and the wildlife ( wild boars, coyotes, maybe bears and mountain lions ) would eat her. Roundup doesn't kill it not even at more than double strength, we tried in desperation. On the other hand I don't want to kill the wildlife.


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## phred45 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hello Everyone,
Discovered a leak in the gas tank of my 076 yesterday. It's just where a ding is. Will epoxy "JB Weld" fix that? 
Still waiting to try the saw. Bailey's sent the wrong chains with the bar but are really nice about exchanging them. Just have to wait until they get here. So thanks for sending me to them

Also have a question for the tree experts. When I came out to the land this weekend some of my logs had turned black with fungus. It's been hot and humid here. Also there is some funny white stuff inside our Coffee tree. Looks like rolled up white paper shoved up into the core wood but is a little thicker and leathery (quite strong).
Any idea where I should post these? Have you seen similar threads or should I start a new one? Don't want to get too far from the subjetct here.


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## mtngun (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm not sure if the 076 tank is plastic or metal, however, I'll assume it is plastic ?

JB weld is great for repairing metal and ceramics. It is somewhat gas resistant -- the gas tank on one of my pickups has been patched with JB for several years now, and it's still holding, knock on wood.

However, JB doesn't bond to plastic worth a darn. Some people have nonetheless used JB to repair plastic gas tanks by sanding the patch area. That allows JB to form a decent mechanical bond, even though the chemical bond will be still be weak.

I've had good luck using 3M 2216 adhesive to repair plastics, including the gas tank on my Oly 980. It sticks to plastic and seems to be gas resistant. Only problem is it costs and arm and a leg and has to be ordered (I get it from McMaster Carr). 

There's probably other adhesives that would work on your gas tank, but that's the extent of my experience to date.

Dunno what to tell you about your moldy trees except, yes, Arkansas is hot and humid.  You can keep your Arkansas summers.


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## BobL (Jul 22, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> Discovered a leak in the gas tank of my 076 yesterday. It's just where a ding is. Will epoxy "JB Weld" fix that?



Metal tank so JB Weld will work. The problem with cracks is that is you will need super clean surfaces. After degreasing the inside and outside of the tank I would put raw pure ethyl alcohol in the tanks and let is bleed out through the cracks, Do this maybe 5 times. Then ideally you want to get some JB on the inside and of course outside - and fill up the ding while you are at it.. 



> Still waiting to try the saw. Bailey's sent the wrong chains with the blade but are really nice about exchanging them.


Psst, - its called a *bar*.



> Also there is some funny white stuff inside our Coffee tree. Looks like rolled up white paper shoved up into the core wood but is a little thicker and leathery (quite strong)..



That must be a filtered coffee tree?


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## phred45 (Jul 22, 2010)

What blade :greenchainsaw: That's what you get for talking to newbies

Actually the tank is Aluminum, so JB should work then. Somebody suggested Acetone for cleaning but I am afraid that will dissolve any seals and hoses, alcohol sounds better. I should be able to get to the ding on the inside (with my wife's thin fingers) to clean the greasy gas off. Hopefully that'll fix it. 

I really am curious what that white leather like stuff is (filtered coffee tree is good!).

Thanks guys


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## BobL (Jul 22, 2010)

I think the metal is a cast mg alloy of some kind but it's no matter.

Here is the repair job I did on the oil tank of my 076. 






I used raw gas to remove the bar oil, then brake parts cleaner to removed the gas, then alcohol to remove the brake parts cleaner.

The corrosion was probably caused by a previous owner cutting palms with the saw. I bought the saw with it bogged up with what looked like plastibond. Because I was going to use the 076 for milling I pulled out all the plastibond and replaced it with JB weld, after milling ~100 logs its still holding up well.


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## BIG JAKE (Jul 28, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Thanks to all of you everything is ordered and should be here hopefully before the weekend. My wife can't wait to see if she can start the big saw when it's in the mill. She is a small woman but loves being out working in the woods.
> Are there any threads on auxiliary blade oilers? Should I get one? Couldn't find one at Bailey's.
> 
> This is off thread but have any of you ever used a propane burner to clear ditches and fence rows of brush and weeds? The brambles here are horrible and nothing seems to kill them. The ground is very rocky and kills weed eaters.



Try 2-4d, i.e. Brush/Weed B-gone. Either has around 6-7% 2-4D. That's the ingredient you need to look for spectracide has some also. I use it to kill elm and other weed tree species. Eventually, you can eradicate undesireables and only occasional follow-ups to maintain. Follow directions on the label but try to get good coverage on the whole plant. Try a test plot and see what you think.


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## phred45 (Aug 10, 2010)

*076 new Carlton bar*

Finally got my tank fixed with JB. Seems to work. Mg alloy was interesting, so much to learn. Also got all my stuff from Bailey's after a couple back and forth. 
Now here is my newest problem. The chain will not stay in the sprocket. I bought the 36" Carlton Premium Sprocket Tip Bar with the 3/8 sprocket nose. Replaced the clutch drum and the 404 rim sprocket with 3/8. Somehow the bar and chain do not line up with the sprocket. The 2 drive lugs from the oiler that go to the clutch are about the amount of misalignment. 
I thought I had seen some info about using a washer or shim but can't find it.
Got any thoughts on this?

Haven't dealt with the brambles yet. 105 and up with our humidity is way too hot for me.


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## mtngun (Aug 10, 2010)

I have no clue about the misalignment. Got pics ?

The rim is supposed to be able to float on the hub and align itself with the bar, within limits, so if it is not aligning, something must be amiss. But, I have no experience with that model.

I bought the same bar as you, a clearance 36" Carlton that I converted to 3/8", but I haven't tried it yet. It looks like a dandy, though.

Ya, fall weather is more pleasant for milling.


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## gemniii (Aug 10, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Finally got my tank fixed with JB. Seems to work.



Aw c'mon it's just an internet fairy tale without PICTURES!!


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## BobL (Aug 10, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Now here is my newest problem. The chain will not stay in the sprocket. I bought the 36" Carlton Premium Sprocket Tip Bar with the 3/8 sprocket nose. Replaced the clutch drum and the 404 rim sprocket with 3/8. Somehow the bar and chain do not line up with the sprocket. The 2 drive lugs from the oiler that go to the clutch are about the amount of misalignment.
> I thought I had seen some info about using a washer or shim but can't find it.
> Got any thoughts on this?
> 
> Haven't dealt with the brambles yet. 105 and up with our humidity is way too hot for me.



When you put the clutch back did you rotate the clutch drum so the oil drive lugs engages with the notches in the clutch?


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## phred45 (Aug 10, 2010)

I'll try to get some pics during lunch. Yes, I rotated the clutch and it locked onto the lugs.


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## phred45 (Aug 10, 2010)

Took the chain and blade off again for some pictures. Need my real camera the cell pics aren't very good.
Here is the problem. When I put the chain back on the bar and drive sprocket, the chain will not let me turn it by hand and when forced it comes out of the sprocket. The brake was off, I made sure.


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## smokinj (Aug 10, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Took the chain and blade off again for some pictures. Need my real camera the cell pics aren't very good.
> Here is the problem. When I put the chain back on the bar and drive sprocket, the chain will not let me turn it by hand and when forced it comes out of the sprocket. The brake was off, I made sure.



Is it a hard nose?


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## BobL (Aug 10, 2010)

OK the sprocket looks like it's not sitting close up enough to the drum. The problem could be that the spline/sprocket has small casting flaws/burrs on it. You need to take off the clutch drum and check the sprocket sits up against the drum. If necessary you will need to grind down the flaw on the spline or sprocket. I use a Dremel tool with a carbide burr to tidy mine up but sometimes just a piece of wet and dry folded around a piece of plastic is enough.


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## mtngun (Aug 10, 2010)

Maybe it is just the picture angle, but I have to agree that the bar does not seem to be aligned with the rim. 

It's not clear why the rim can't slide over (toward the bottom of the pic) to improve alignment. ? ? ?






I don't know the answer, but I posted your pic hoping that one of the 076 owners will come along and generate some ideas.

Nothing to do with alignment, but sometimes when the Carlton bar is new, it may have clear coat in the bar groove, and the chain may bind in the groove. The problem takes care of itself as soon as the chain starts spinning, but can cause the chain to refuse to move in the meantime. You can check that by seeing if the chain will slide freely in the bar while the bar is off the saw.


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## BobL (Aug 10, 2010)

I Just looked at this again and may be going crazy . . . . . . but it seems like you have put the clutch drum on the wrong way around ? 

Maybe I'm not used to be looking at it from this angle but you seem to have put the clutch back using the blue line orientation whereas you should be using the red?


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## mtngun (Aug 10, 2010)

Is the 076 clutch an outie or an innie ?


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## BobL (Aug 10, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Is the 076 clutch an outie or an innie ?



Outtie, and the bottom of those images is definitely the saw.


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## phred45 (Aug 10, 2010)

BobL said:


> Outtie, and the bottom of those images is definitely the saw.



The clutch is an outie and the bar has a sprocket nose. Where mtngun shows the ?? in red is where the drive sprocket sits on top of the lugs from the oiler. Should the sprocket sit flush on the oiler? If so then I must have the wrong sprockets. It seems they did change the design at some point from pins to lugs. Mine definitely has lugs.

I'll try to get better pics but am pretty sure the clutch is in right. On the pics the top is the cover and the bottom the saw. I guess it looks kind of upside down, I tried to get enough light into it.


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## Bedford (Aug 10, 2010)

BobL said:


> I Just looked at this again and may be going crazy . . . . . . but it seems like you have put the clutch drum on the wrong way around ?



I agree, there's something strange here, those pics in post #62 are opposites. I don't think you could put the clutch on backwards as there is no recess in the housing to fit it, these have to be different saws.


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## mtngun (Aug 10, 2010)

The other picture. Clutch on outside, rim on inside. I think that is called an outboard clutch ?





The rim sprocket should "float" on the splines. It should have some wiggle room to move side to side so that it self-aligns with the bar and chain. If it is not free to move side to side, then something is wrong.

Phred45, I don't know the answer, but if it were my saw, I would take the clutch off and go over everything with a fine tooth comb.


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## phred45 (Aug 11, 2010)

*Start new thread for 076*

Hi everybody,
I'm going to start a new thread with this so maybe some other 076 owners see it.
Finally got some pretty good pictures. Took everything apart again checked it for burs etc. and reassembled. Still the same problem. Everything moves freely until the chain goes on. The chain moves somewhat tight in the bar but it pulls through by hand pretty well, so that's probably just being new.
Once the chain goes over the drive sprocket it binds and won't turn. 
Could the oil pump be sitting too high? Never took it out.
Also a pic of the repaired tank, not pretty but works.


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## BobL (Aug 11, 2010)

phred45 said:


> Hi everybody,
> I'm going to start a new thread with this so maybe some other 076 owners see it.
> Finally got some pretty good pictures. Took everything apart again checked it for burs etc. and reassembled. Still the same problem. Everything moves freely until the chain goes on. *The chain moves somewhat tight in the bar* but it pulls through by hand pretty well, so that's probably just being new.
> Once the chain goes over the drive sprocket it binds and won't turn.
> ...



Everything looks OK in terms of order of assembly but this picture suggests the sprocket is still not sliding smoothly on the spline and not floating into line, otherwise it would have fallen down the spline onto the case.





Also look at the phrase in bold in your quote. This suggests the drive links are peened or damaged. Post a pic of the drive links
[EDIT] OK I see from your other post the chain is new. 
Then the sprocket itself might have burrs inside where the drive links sit.

Can you also retake this picture so it is easier to see what is going on?





One more thing. Try using a screwdriver to lever the sprocket over into line as shown in this picture. If it does not move you have burs to attend to.


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## phred45 (Aug 11, 2010)

Hi Bobl, 
The sprocket moves fine when the chain is not on it. Did you see the new pics? The lugs sticking up from the oiler are holding the sprocket up too high but I don't know why. The parts are all new and Mntgn suggested that the bar may have some clear coat in the bar groove. When I hang the chain on the bar and pull it over the nose it slides, where as when it goes through the sprocket it doesn't want to move at all.
I'll get more pics tonight with the chain and bar mounted.

Thanks for the new post on milling for us newbies. Much appreciated. This whole site is awsome.


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## super3 (Aug 11, 2010)

The lugs on the oiler should recess into the clutch drum not the sprocket. Does the drum have notches in it for the oiler?


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## mtngun (Aug 11, 2010)

super3 said:


> Does the drum have notches in it for the oiler?


Phred45, please post a pic of the new clutch drum, and also the old clutch drum if you still have it.


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## cgarman (Feb 24, 2011)

*076 sprocket*

I may be a little late with this, but I had the same problem, and it took forever to figure out. Hopefully I can help....

The 076 has a weird oiler that requires a special rim sprocket. I had one that looked like it fit fine, but then I noticed the chain misalignment like your photo. After lots of searching, I found a rim sprocket by Stihl specifically for the 076. It looks the same as the generic sprockets (Oregen, etc.) except that it has extra notches to fit the oiler lugs. Once it's aligned with the lugs, the rim sprocket should float back and forth on the drum by about 1/16". That is what allows everything to fall back into alignment with the bar.

I don't know the P/N, but hopefully it's helpful to know you have a problem that will cost $5 to fix and make your saw run 3x better.


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## betterbuilt (Feb 24, 2011)

Eventually this was moved to another thread and the problem was solved. 


http://www.arboristsite.com/milling-saw-mills/145151.htm


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