# Skip tooth nonsense



## Saw Dr. (Dec 21, 2013)

Had a long time customer come in several weeks ago looking for .325 skip chain for his 550xp. I explained to him that no such thing exists. He is CONVINCED that skip tooth anything is better. Yesterday he comes in and _tells_ me to order everything to convert his 550 to 3/8. I told him it could be done, but that it would cut slower with 3/8 skip, and he didn't care. I do not understand these guys swearing by skip on short bars. Does he really think that Husky would have put .325 on there if JGX would cut faster???? The 3/8 chain is cheaper to manufacture anyway!?!?!? 

So I dug around and we actually already had all of what he needed. Oregon doesn't even make a 3/8 sprocket for the 550, but the factory rim can be swapped for 3/8, so I am good for when he comes back. I just don't get it. We have started carrying 20" loops of skip, and I have stopped telling guys that it cuts slower. I even spoke with my Oregon rep, and told him they should start selling .325 skip. There is absolutely no practical purpose, but we could sure sell a bunch of it.


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## mdavlee (Dec 21, 2013)

I've always heard it cuts so much faster with skip. It keeps the rpms up and sounds faster is all. I've tested it up to 36" bars and if the saw has the power full comp has always been faster. Semi skip will be right with full comp with a few less cutters to sharpen. I've got a loop of skip on the 357 since it's all I could find for a 20" bar.


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## z71mike (Dec 21, 2013)

Agree. Unless I'm running a 32+ bar, I don't see the benefit. But if the demand is there, by all means, make some good money off of it!


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## zogger (Dec 21, 2013)

skip is so 2010! People need to run MEGASKIP, cutter every..ohh...ten or so drive links...

..well, someone would buy it...


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## redoakneck (Dec 21, 2013)

.325 skip LOL, just tell him to grind the dern cutters off regular .325, end up with 4 cutters per loop of chain???


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## redoakneck (Dec 21, 2013)

I make my own skip chain when I cut fence rows, just happens to be 5-6 cutters skipped in a row followed by full comp, until I hit another wire, soon it is all skip!!!!


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## HuskStihl (Dec 21, 2013)

I started running full skip narrow kerf 325 on my HT131 pole saw. Kicks ass! Full skip on everything baby!


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## Homelite410 (Dec 21, 2013)

redoakneck said:


> I make my own skip chain when I cut fence rows, just happens to be 5-6 cutters skipped in a row followed by full comp, until I hit another wire, soon it is all skip!!!!


Ain't that the truth!


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## pro94lt (Dec 21, 2013)

I would love 3/8 lp skip for my pole saw and cs271t... they actually need it


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## Saw Dr. (Dec 21, 2013)

pro94lt said:


> I would love 3/8 lp skip for my pole saw and cs271t... they actually need it



Go get a chain from the "Homelites" or such at the big box. YEAH MAN! I GOTS ME A 20" CHAINSAW!!!! Nevermind the 40cc wonder has about 15 total cutters on the chain. They're double skip or something. No wonder they can run a 20" aluminum bar on them....


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## HuskStihl (Dec 21, 2013)

Actually tho, I can't see any reason not to run skip chain. I run it on everything over 20


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## Franny K (Dec 21, 2013)

I do have a loop with 81 drivers of .325 skip. I put it as an alternate choice for the narrow kerf stuff. It is full (as opposed to semi chisel comes as if sharpened with a round file) chisel. To me it seems there is oregon 20jpx which has bumper drive links (two thirds of them anyway with a lube assist hole) or woodland pro 20 rcs which does not. Maybe the Oregon is discontinued as jpx in their search box only brings up sharpening stuff.

http://www.baileysonline.com/Saw-Ch...uge/OREGON-100-REEL-325-X-050-CHISEL-SKIP.axd
http://www.baileysonline.com/Saw-Ch...dPro-20RCS-Chainsaw-Chain-100-Reel.axd?catID=
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Oregon-20...649?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e84375511


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## VI sawguy (Dec 21, 2013)

Carlton offers .325 skip or at least they use to. We have a roll in stock for the customers who have to have skip. We're on the westcoast though and most of the chain we do sell is skip.


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## Swamp Yankee (Dec 21, 2013)

Without a doubt, much faster,

To sharpen that is. Fewer cutters means it's a whole lot faster to sharpen skip chain, especially on a long bar out in the woods. Less down time with a file, is a bump up in production, especially if cutting wood that has been skidded.

From what I've observed there may be a slight advantage in cutting speed but it's most likely negligible. Question you have to ask yourself, if skip tooth chain is perceived as necessary because of the bar length needed to cut the wood diameter in question, maybe a bigger saw is in order? Cutting large diameter wood requires torque (hp) and the bottom ends in a lot of the 50 - 60 cc displacement saws aren't designed handle a steady dose of high loading.

Take Care


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## bcaarms (Dec 21, 2013)

Im not an expert, however some on here would listen to Art Martin if he was still around. His ramblings on how to sharpen chains have led many to better results. He used skip chains on some of his race saws with results that beat the competition. Its kinda like everything else in the world. Its takes a balanced matching of HP. chain width, chain angles, RPM, chain speed, wood hardness, da da da da If all it took was to buy skip chain then I think the secret would be out by now. I put 3/8 LGX on all my saws because they are all modded and can pull it, but mainly I don't want to set up 3 grinders and have to buy multiple size files. If you saw cuts faster than mine that's OK. But if you are optimizing you chain on a stock saw, I don't think so.

Have a nice Christmas
Peace


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## GrassGuerilla (Dec 21, 2013)

I'd be willing to bet an inordinate number of your requests for 20" .325 skip comes from ms290 owners. Anyone who's ever run one as such would probably be hoping a loop of skip will save them from hating that saw, and wishing they had bought something else. Where as with a 16", that saw cuts quite well. I'd say Stihl shouldn't sell them that way, but ya give the guys with the money what they want. Thus, ya might as well get em some skip. (It actually does help keep from bogging it in the cut, making it easier on saw and operator).


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## a. palmer jr. (Dec 21, 2013)

...Or we could just take our time..I mostly cut firewood and don't see why the rush. If you were a full time logger it would be different, I guess..I have a 290 and it's fast enough as is.


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## GrassGuerilla (Dec 21, 2013)

a. palmer jr. said:


> ...Or we could just take our time..I mostly cut firewood and don't see why the rush. If you were a full time logger it would be different, I guess..



That's crazy talk. Surely there's a way I could throw a handful of dollars at the problem.


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## Saw Dr. (Dec 21, 2013)

I have no problems with skip on longer bars, as that is what it is for. We sent an 044 home yesterday with a new 32" bar and skip chain. The owner was worried about it pulling that bar, but had some big wood to cut and no coin for a 461, so I suggested the skip chain. I actually intentionally put a 20" loop of skip on a used saw the other day. We got a Husky 40 in used without a bar, and all I had was a used 20" bar from a 55 Rancher. With the skip chain, the little 40 did pretty well. I'm sure it would have cut with full comp chain, but the skip pulled much nicer on the lower power saw. 

GrassGuerilla, the 290 hater thread is a couple of doors down..... They do OK with a 7 pin and 20" .325. I often see 8 pins and 20" which makes no sense at all. I suppose an 8 pin with skip chain would do fair on a 20" bar? Who knows. The physics are probably about the same. Skip chain moving faster equals the same number of cutters passing the same point over a given time interval. 

I just think it is silly to try and out-think the manufacturer on the 550xp. If the thing would cut better with 3/8, it would have come that way. Maybe on a modded saw, which this is not.


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## GrassGuerilla (Dec 21, 2013)

Guess that did come off as a 290 bashing? Not intended. A lot of those saws have been sold. Very reliable, decent power in its price range. My point was more that many if not most saws in its range are all wearing too much bar. Thus creating the perceived need for a way to "cheat it some". 

I actually just sold my 290. It did everything I ever asked of it. Made a bunch of money with it, sold it for most of what I paid. No hate for 290's at all.


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## SawTroll (Dec 21, 2013)

pro94lt said:


> I would love 3/8 lp skip for my pole saw and cs271t... they actually need it



Different story, and such chain does exist for the really weak saws with too long bars....


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## Weesa20 (Dec 21, 2013)

I like my 290 farm boss with 20" and non-skip. I just cut up a bunch of 24+" oak and when the 361 got dull, the 290 did just fine with a 7 pin. Going to a second saw that is already sharp is even faster than sharpening skip in the woods, even if it is just a 290. Just sayin'.


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## gilfish (Dec 21, 2013)

Only ever used skip tooth on hand operated circular saws ( Hargon or swing saws ) that was breaking down logs, so rip sawing as opposed to croscutting. When we ripped logs by chainsaw for fenceposts we would reduce the depth gauges to gain cutting speed all other things being equal ie. short bars and 10hp saws.Dont fancy crosscutting with skip on hardwood?


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## CR500 (Dec 21, 2013)

what if I file my rakers off then run skip sequence chain?? Light-saber probably lol


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## Homelite410 (Dec 21, 2013)

CR500 said:


> what if I file my rakers off then run skip sequence chain?? Light-saber probably lol


Light saber that's hard to hang on to!


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## windthrown (Dec 21, 2013)

Well, if I had a shop I would keep to the rule that the customer is always right. Right, wrong, smart, dumb, or otherwise.

I also ran a 20" bar on my 290 and I bought a skip loop for it once. My ex still has it. I posted about it here a long time ago. Cross cutting was not much different, but the cutters dulled faster with skip. They were also faster to sharpen. They also worked better on noodling rounds (cleared the chips better). Skip also keeps the revs up on the saw from less torque required to spin it, so in some cases they will cut better, or faster, especially of you are bogging with full comp.


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## stihl86 (Dec 21, 2013)

z71mike said:


> Agree. Unless I'm running a 32+ bar, I don't see the benefit. But if the demand is there, by all means, make some good money off of it!


 
You would have to bury that bar to see any difference. Yes, it sometimes cuts faster in soft wood, but its because it can clear the chips out of the cut. Not that the cutters produce more.


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## TheManOfStihl (Dec 21, 2013)

I have used the same 029 since the mid 90's, and love my 029. I have considered the skip chain notion and a longer bar, but the 20" .325 full comp has done me well. Why change what works? If you are in a big hurry to cut big timber, sooner or later something bad is going to happen.


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## a. palmer jr. (Dec 21, 2013)

I don't have a problem with 290s or the other clam shell engine types. In some respects I prefer them to the pro type.


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## Chris-PA (Dec 21, 2013)

Teeth? They just slow you down.


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## struggle (Dec 21, 2013)

My MS880 came with a 59" bar and two full comp chains and man does it ever take a long time to sharpen that

That is what the previous owner had on it.


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## slowp (Dec 21, 2013)

Well hmm eh after wiping out the competition with my ancient 032 ( AKA Old Sparkless) the guys sat down and examined it. They determined that my winning was due to running skippy chain on the 20 inch bar and they'll probably be doing the same next time.
We shall find out in June. 

Skip chain is quite easy to find in our neck of the woods.


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## Mastermind (Dec 21, 2013)

On long bars in soft wood, skip is faster, but only because it allows the chips to be pulled out of the cut so the cutters don't ride on them.


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## Eccentric (Dec 21, 2013)

slowp said:


> Well hmm eh after wiping out the competition with my ancient 032 ( AKA Old Sparkless) the guys sat down and examined it. They determined that my winning was due to running skippy chain on the 20 inch bar and they'll probably be doing the same next time.
> We shall find out in June.
> 
> Skip chain is quite easy to find in our neck of the woods.




Ms P I heard your wins last June were in part due to your new saw tuner...


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## slowp (Dec 21, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> Ms P I heard your wins last June were in part due to your new saw tuner...


 
Except it beat the guys last September at LaPine, too. That was at a higher altitude.


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## Eccentric (Dec 21, 2013)

OK fine.


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## bootboy (Dec 21, 2013)

I cut nothing but soft wood around here, I only use the skip on my 24" and 30" bars, not because it's negligibly faster, but because it's easier to sharpen. Especially since I file square for the most part.


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## fuzz1500 (Dec 22, 2013)

Ive said it a couple times today...K.I.S.S !! To me..if a fella thinks he needs a skip tooth chain on a 550xp to add more power.......its time for a bigger saw anyway . Just my thoughts


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## gsrsol84mm (Dec 22, 2013)

Here is a Basically stock Husky 550xp pulling a 3/8 20" bar will Stihl Skip chain. RSF Chain
Just drilled a 3/8 hole in the muffler for a mild mufler job


Same saw with 20" 3/8 full chisel stihl chain - Non Skip RS CHain


Same Saw With 18" 3/8 bar and Stihl Skip chain RSF Chain


Same saw with 18" 3/8 Bar and Non Skip RS Chain



The Husky 550xp has now been ported by Tlandrum and wears a 16" 3/8 .050 Pro Lite Bar with Stihl Full Chisel RS Chain.
At first I did not think I would like the 16" bar but really do.
The 20" 3/8 .050 bar is on my Tlandrum Ported 2260 which is a great combo. I love the 3/8 .050 chain and bar combos for
all my saws as I can interchange bars and chains if I have to or want to. The 550xp runs very well with 3/8 .050 Stihl RS chain.

I did not like the Skip chain for limbing as it tends to throw the bar off the limb with a bit of kickback in certain positions. You also
can't use the Stihl 2 in 1 sharpener with skip chain.

Ported Husky 550xp With 16" 3/8 .050 Pro Lite Bar and Stihl RS Chain - Great Combination


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## slowp (Dec 22, 2013)

More: Old Sparkless is stock. No mods other than some stickers for aesthetic purposes.


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## fuzz1500 (Dec 22, 2013)

> The Husky 550xp has now been ported by Tlandrum and wears a 16" 3/8 .050 Pro Lite Bar with Stihl Full Chisel RS Chain.
> At first I did not think I would like the 16" bar but really do.
> The 20" 3/8 .050 bar is on my Tlandrum Ported 2260 which is a great combo. I love the 3/8 .050 chain and bar combos for
> all my saws as I can interchange bars and chains if I have to or want to. The 550xp runs very well with 3/8 .050 Stihl RS chain.
> ...



Wow..thanks for the vids !! Great stuff ! I can see there being great possibilities being able to change out 3/8 bars between saws . Thats actually pretty smart . I personally like the .325 on the 550xp .Seems to cut faster . Plus I have a bunch of saws that take the same .325 bar !! Thanks again for the vids...very informative !


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## dswensen (Dec 22, 2013)

windthrown said:


> Well, if I had a shop I would keep to the rule that the customer is always right. Right, wrong, smart, dumb, or otherwise.



Not QUITE there with you on that one. I have never been a shop owner or a retailer, but I am often a customer. What I would say is that the customer is always the customer. When I come across a shop owner with superior knowledge, I appreciate his/her opinion - ONCE. After I have heard that opinion and understood it, if I still want something else, I DO NOT want an argument. I can get arguments all day long at home and at work. When I put on the hat of customer, I want what I want. Sometimes I want an opinion that is more expert than mine, and I'll ask for it. Other times, I just want what I came in for.


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## Twisted Priorities (Dec 22, 2013)

I run standard chain on my 017's and 026's. Standard and semi skip on my MS260 Mod. I have a few loops of full skip for my 036 with a 24" bar when bucking large rounds. It works good for dead frozen white ash but turn up the oiler a bit.
Full skip chain is dangerous when limbing due to grabbing and kickback.


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## Yukon Stihl (Dec 22, 2013)

windthrown said:


> Well, if I had a shop I would keep to the rule that the customer is always right. Right, wrong, smart, dumb, or otherwise..


Thats soooo 21'st century
Now in the modern world the customer is never right,not sure when that changed.But it sure as hell is the new policy at 90% of the stores that i have been looking for stuff in.


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## Homelite410 (Dec 22, 2013)

Full house baby!




No chip clearance what so ever!


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## sachsmo (Dec 22, 2013)

Saw Dr. said:


> Had a long time customer come in several weeks ago looking for .325 skip chain for his 550xp. I explained to him that no such thing exists. He is CONVINCED that skip tooth anything is better. Yesterday he comes in and _tells_ me to order everything to convert his 550 to 3/8. I told him it could be done, but that it would cut slower with 3/8 skip, and he didn't care. I do not understand these guys swearing by skip on short bars. Does he really think that Husky would have put .325 on there if JGX would cut faster???? The 3/8 chain is cheaper to manufacture anyway!?!?!?
> 
> So I dug around and we actually already had all of what he needed. Oregon doesn't even make a 3/8 sprocket for the 550, but the factory rim can be swapped for 3/8, so I am good for when he comes back. I just don't get it. We have started carrying 20" loops of skip, and I have stopped telling guys that it cuts slower. I even spoke with my Oregon rep, and told him they should start selling .325 skip. There is absolutely no practical purpose, but we could sure sell a bunch of it.


Dem previous wildthing owners want what they know?

I like skip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when I'm filing eh?


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## Twisted Priorities (Dec 22, 2013)

WOW
Full tooth chain.
Would be hard to use and fun to sharpen even with your chain holder Homelite410.


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## Homelite410 (Dec 22, 2013)

If I had nothing better to do and the cutters, it'd be fun to clip the tails and assemble a full house chisel chain!


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## wyk (Dec 22, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> On long bars in soft wood, skip is faster, but only because it allows the chips to be pulled out of the cut so the cutters don't ride on them.



The monkey is right. But he is more right when it comes to more fibrous and woods with moisture like softwoods and some PNW hardwoods like this big leaf maple:


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## windthrown (Dec 22, 2013)

Yukon Stihl said:


> Thats soooo 21'st century
> Now in the modern world the customer is never right,not sure when that changed.But it sure as hell is the new policy at 90% of the stores that i have been looking for stuff in.


 
Well, if you ever want to make a dime in business, you should understand marketing which is _always_ customer driven. There is nothing new about that, and has been the dominant business strategy in the 20th century. But hey, everyone on this site is always right, even when they do not have any education, any experience, or even the faintest clue about what they are talking about.


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## Speed (Dec 22, 2013)

To the OP- that guy probably hangs out on one of them there chainsaw forums on that Internet thing the kids are all talking about nowadays. They say if its on that electron scrambling box its got to be true.


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## Saw Dr. (Dec 22, 2013)

Yeah, he is probably here. He said he researched the saws before buying. Local husky dealer is not terribly friendly. He bought a 550 & 576at from him, and comes to our place for consumables etc. Good customer, and I told hook l him my opinion once. Now it is time to get him what he wants, even if that is not what is best for his saw.


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## Saw Dr. (Dec 22, 2013)

If you are reading this, hey JJ. We got your parts in.


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## Philbert (Dec 22, 2013)

They put skip tooth on a lot of the big box store saws - I guess because they are underpowered for their bar length. Anyway, I glance as I walk by, checking to see if they are at least Oregon chain, or if some have gone to OOO (Tri-Link). A couple of times I have had to do a double take because there will be a cutter, followed by 3 or 4 tie straps (looks especially funny with the bumper tie straps!). Typically 3/8 low profile. Turns out that this is usually where the loop is joined, with an odd number of drive links. But it looks really strange.

Philbert


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## eiklj (Dec 22, 2013)

Philbert said:


> They put skip tooth on a lot of the big box store saws - I guess because they are underpowered for their bar length. Anyway, I glance as I walk by, checking to see if they are at least Oregon chain, or if some have gone to OOO (Tri-Link). A couple of times I have had to do a double take because there will be a cutter, followed by 3 or 4 tie straps (looks especially funny with the bumper tie straps!). Typically 3/8 low profile. Turns out that this is usually where the loop is joined, with an odd number of drive links. But it looks really strange.
> 
> Philbert



I agree those chains look silly. I assumed they made that silly skip for cost reasons. Fewer cutters = less cost. 
Most homeowners are not going to notice any difference in performance.


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## Speed (Dec 22, 2013)

eiklj said:


> I agree those chains look silly. I assumed they made that silly skip for cost reasons. Fewer cutters = less cost.
> Most homeowners are not going to notice any difference in performance.


That is kind of the way I had it figured. Most of the people buying one have never been around one and wouldn't know the difference. But after hearing small cc big bar lots of skip that makes sense too. Big box customers are shopping for that BIG 20" bar, because it's bigger saw than the same saw with an 18". I bet you could have it filed awful fast though considering its only got a cutter every 4"!


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## spacemule (Dec 22, 2013)

Saw Dr. said:


> Had a long time customer come in several weeks ago looking for .325 skip chain for his 550xp. I explained to him that no such thing exists. He is CONVINCED that skip tooth anything is better. Yesterday he comes in and _tells_ me to order everything to convert his 550 to 3/8. I told him it could be done, but that it would cut slower with 3/8 skip, and he didn't care. I do not understand these guys swearing by skip on short bars. Does he really think that Husky would have put .325 on there if JGX would cut faster???? The 3/8 chain is cheaper to manufacture anyway!?!?!?
> 
> So I dug around and we actually already had all of what he needed. Oregon doesn't even make a 3/8 sprocket for the 550, but the factory rim can be swapped for 3/8, so I am good for when he comes back. I just don't get it. We have started carrying 20" loops of skip, and I have stopped telling guys that it cuts slower. I even spoke with my Oregon rep, and told him they should start selling .325 skip. There is absolutely no practical purpose, but we could sure sell a bunch of it.



Doesn't matter. It's his money and his choice. If he want's skip by golly, then sell him skip and shut your trap.


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## clemsonfor (Dec 22, 2013)

Crumb for latet

Sent from my C5155 using Tapatalk


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## Yukon Stihl (Dec 23, 2013)

windthrown said:


> Well, if you ever want to make a dime in business, you should understand marketing which is _always_ customer driven. There is nothing new about that, and has been the dominant business strategy in the 20th century. But hey, everyone on this site is always right, even when they do not have any education, any experience, or even the faintest clue about what they are talking about.


Been self employed since 1992,don't owe a red cent to anyone.Have garage's, equipment,trucks,and heating fuel business.
I know where the customer belongs in the scheme of things.
Not how i do business
Just saying
Thomas


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## Franny K (Dec 23, 2013)

Yukon Stihl said:


> Been self employed since 1992,don't owe a red cent to anyone.Have garage's, equipment,trucks,and heating fuel business.
> I know where the customer belongs in the scheme of things.
> Not how i do business
> Just saying
> Thomas


The fuel oil business can be more frustrating to purchase from than the owner of the top level stihl dealer saying why do you want to do that, what are you trying to do. 

It takes a bit of effort to find someone to deliver fuel oil without giving them all the information to do a credit check and signing a service contract. I am not sure what you mean by the part I highlighted but even though I dealt with the salesman who installed the whole new boiler and hot water tank when I inherited the house for a few years they had a seperate division for put a check on the pipe and 17 cents a gallon less but then demanded the contract and credit check.


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## sachsmo (Dec 23, 2013)

I tried some skip tooth, got a killer deal on some 33" .404 bars, figured I'd give 'er a try.

I like it,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and really like it when filing!


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## Chris-PA (Dec 23, 2013)

Philbert said:


> They put skip tooth on a lot of the big box store saws - I guess because they are underpowered for their bar length. Anyway, I glance as I walk by, checking to see if they are at least Oregon chain, or if some have gone to OOO (Tri-Link). A couple of times I have had to do a double take because there will be a cutter, followed by 3 or 4 tie straps (looks especially funny with the bumper tie straps!). Typically 3/8 low profile. Turns out that this is usually where the loop is joined, with an odd number of drive links. But it looks really strange.
> 
> Philbert


I was bored one day so I ground off all the shark fins on a nearly shot loop of that stuff. I wanted to see if my 38cc Earthquake could pull an 18" bar with full skip lo pro! It was slow as heck, but at least it vibrated a lot. Fortunately I quickly hit a piece of gravel that was stuck in the bark and wiped out a few of the cutters (there was not much left anyway), putting the thing out of its misery. It cuts faster with full comp on that bar, not that I use an 18" on it normally.


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## Homelite410 (Sep 27, 2015)




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## Westboastfaller (Sep 27, 2015)

Homelite410 said:


>


 ok...now I know what you guys mean by "full skip" thanks for the clarification.
LMAO


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## Full Chisel (Sep 27, 2015)

I ran a 461 with a 20" bar and full skip chain earlier this summer. The cutters were filed down to nubs and it cut wicked fast, I couldn't believe the speed. I thought it would make good race chain. I think a lot of people discount the speed of skip chain.


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## mdavlee (Sep 27, 2015)

Full Chisel said:


> I ran a 461 with a 20" bar and full skip chain earlier this summer. The cutters were filed down to nubs and it cut wicked fast, I couldn't believe the speed. I thought it would make good race chain. I think a lot of people discount the speed of skip chain.


I had one like that. Was still 10% slower than a full comp chain on a 562. I've yet to see full skip actually cut faster under 72" of bar.


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## Chainsaw Jim (Sep 27, 2015)

Here's a video comparison of skip versus full comp. The bars are not the same size though. The 20" set up is full comp. The 26" set up is skip. Same saw same log.
First video is full comp 20" 3/8 chisel.
Second video is skip 26" 3/8 chisel.
It appears the skip is faster, but the difference is only enough that would matter for racing.


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## SawTroll (Sep 27, 2015)

Swamp Yankee said:


> ....
> To sharpen that is. Fewer cutters means it's a whole lot faster to sharpen skip chain, especially on a long bar out in the woods. Less down time with a file, is a bump up in production, especially if cutting wood that has been skidded.
> 
> .....



Faster yes, but on the flip side you have to do it more often, as there are fewer cutters to do the same job.


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## Homelite410 (Sep 27, 2015)

Rslhk is muh favorite!


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## mdavlee (Sep 27, 2015)

Fastest cut with full skip was 1/2 second faster than full comp. same test with a bigger power head will probably go the other way.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 27, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Faster yes, but on the flip side you have to do it more often, as there are fewer cutters to do the same job.


Why is it so many people miss that point????


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## SawTroll (Sep 27, 2015)

Stihl 041S said:


> Why is it so many people miss that point????



Good question - maybe they habitually rock out their chain before is time for the next sharpening?


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## strtspdlx (Sep 27, 2015)

Okay just to clarify for newbs like myself. What is the difference between full skip and full comp?


Regards-Carlo


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 27, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Good question - maybe they habitually rock out their chain before is time for the next sharpening?


Only a fool cuts 2 feet off the top of a blanket, sews it to the bottom and believes he has a longer blanket. Lol


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## Philbert (Sep 27, 2015)

strtspdlx said:


> What is the difference between full skip and full comp?



https://www.baileysonline.com/PDF/saw-chain-101.pdf

'Full complement' is what they call 'standard' in the PDF above. 

There is also 'full house' chain where there are no spaces between cutters. Used by some carvers.

Philbert


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## Macman125 (Sep 28, 2015)

spacemule said:


> Doesn't matter. It's his money and his choice. If he want's skip by golly, then sell him skip and shut your trap.


Isn't it fun being a troll lol


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## Dickried (Jan 27, 2021)

z71mike said:


> Agree. Unless I'm running a 32+ bar, I don't see the benefit. But if the demand is there, by all means, make some good money off of it!


Its hands down a smoother cut, And half the teeth to sharpen. When you're in the brush it makes a difference.


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## Philbert (Jan 27, 2021)

Dickried said:


> And half the teeth to sharpen.


‘Skip tooth’ actually has 2/3 the cutters of full comp. 

It’s not intuitive, but draw out a sequence of a dozen drive links, or so, and count them out. 

Philbert


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## windthrown (Jan 27, 2021)

Philbert said:


> ‘Skip tooth’ actually has 2/3 the cutters of full comp.
> 
> It’s not intuitive, but draw out a sequence of a dozen drive links, or so, and count them out.
> 
> Philbert



Now now... you are doin' that new math and brainy reasoning. Not fair! Of course, there is also semi-skip... and the sound of some brains sizzling trying to figure that one out. And the soon to follow trash talk about how ineffective and useless it is. 

I have been using skip for many years now (after joining this site) and it is effective in different situations. Like noodling rounds and keeping revs up with a longer bar. Of course I also use a picco B&C on my 026 for a narrower kerf and hence faster cutting as a result. BUT NO! That cannot happen!


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## Philbert (Jan 27, 2021)

Found this illustration. For each type of chain, count out the number of cutters for *12* drive links (_*only 10 drive links shown above*_):
Full House = 12
Full Comp / Standard = 6
Semi-Skip = 5
Full Skip = 4
Cutterless = 0

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 27, 2021)

windthrown said:


> Now now... you are doin' that new math and brainy reasoning. Not fair!


'New Math' would have you count the number of cutters and place each in a 'set', then find the common denominator ('12'), and lay this all out on a number line . . . . and show your work!

Philbert


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## windthrown (Jan 27, 2021)

Philbert said:


> 'New Math' would have you count the number of cutters and place each in a 'set', then find the common denominator ('12'), and lay this all out on a number line . . . . and show your work!
> 
> Philbert


These days I would just use calculus and compare the sum of the area beneath the curve of the cutters. After a few beers of course.


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## Wood Doctor (Jan 27, 2021)

Seems to me that a full house chain would have been used years ago at cutting speed contests if it actually ran faster than either standard or skip tooth. It would also have sold rather well unless the price was much higher. Can you imagine taking a standard chain and adding cutters to it in order to make your own full house chain? Please count me out.


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## Philbert (Jan 27, 2021)

Wood Doctor said:


> Seems to me that a full house chain would have been used years ago at cutting speed contests if it actually ran faster than either standard or skip tooth. It would also have sold rather well unless the price was much higher. Can you imagine taking a standard chain and adding cutters to it in order to make your own full house chain? Please count me out.


Just like with circular saw blades on a table saw, or miter saw, more teeth = a smoother, but slower cut. 12 tooth blade for framing; 80 tooth blade for trim work.

We had a thread here where someone took 2, new Oregon, 3/8 pitch chains and spent some time converting them into 1, full house chain, for another member. People do lots of things to see if they can.

Full house chain is usually used in 1/4" pitch for carving. I was sent an ad from Japan offering 3/8 Low Profile, Full House chain, which was used for cutting bamboo. There are, apparently, also some applications for cutting soft metals (?).

Philbert


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## Canyon Angler (Jan 28, 2021)

windthrown said:


> I have been using skip for many years now (after joining this site) and it is effective in different situations. Like noodling rounds and keeping revs up with a longer bar....



Makes sense. Seems to me it's all about keeping the rpms when under load as close to WOT as possible. Just like overpropping a boat: People think that if you increase the pitch of a wheel, the boat will automagically go faster. But it won't if the pitch is so high that the engine can't reach its full max WOT speed. In that case, your top end will actually be slower, because you won't be getting the full horsepower out of your motor. You want the wheel to have as much pitch as possible while still being able to wind up the engine to its max rpm ... that's how you'll get the most top-end speed out of a boat with a given amount of horsepower.

With a high-pitch prop, you'll lose low-gear power/acceleration for standing up a skier or getting up over the bow wave, but unless you've got a multi-speed gearbox, that's the way the mop flops...ya can't have it both ways.


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## farmguywithasaw (Jan 28, 2021)

The idea behind skip is so you can run a 372xp with a 32” bar instead of a a 395xp. Also there are less teeth so like on a firewood saw I’ll run 24” bar skip tooth and a 8 pin sprocket. Zip zip


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## Canyon Angler (Jan 28, 2021)

farmguywithasaw said:


> The idea behind skip is so you can run a 372xp with a 32” bar instead of a a 395xp.


Yeah, I get that. I've never tried to run an "overbarred" or "overchained" saw, but if your bar was too long, or you used a full-comp chain where you should have used a skip chain, couldn't you just kind of "feather" the saw in the cut with a light touch, so that you could keep your rpms maxed out? If it was do-able, I suspect the speed difference between skip chain and full comp would be "a wash" and they would be roughly equal. Be interesting to do a test...


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## Philbert (Jan 28, 2021)

Skip tooth also helps with chip clearance on larger diameter wood.

Philbert


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## windthrown (Jan 28, 2021)

Philbert said:


> Skip tooth also helps with chip clearance on larger diameter wood.
> 
> Philbert


Yep. Its the same with noodling rounds (cutting with the grain). Skip works better for that. As for bigger bar length using skip, that works as long as the oil pump can keep up.


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## Harmon (Jan 28, 2021)

Hardwood vs Softwood? Which to some means deciduous leafy trees v. needle wearing conifers, but then there's real soft leafy trees (like cottonwood) and then there is conifer like the juniper which can be almost petrified. Full comp seems much smoother in the hard wood.

That being said all of my saws that are not climbing saws have oregon full skip round ground chisel on 24" bars!


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## cbfarmall (Jan 29, 2021)

Somebody dug up an old thread....

RandyMac said it best. Skip chain is for saws trying to play out of their league.


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## farmguywithasaw (Jan 29, 2021)

cbfarmall said:


> Somebody dug up an old thread....
> 
> RandyMac said it best. Skip chain is for saws trying to play out of their league.


True however if your cutting dirty wood it’s nice that you have 1/3 less teeth to sharpen


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## Chainmale (Jan 29, 2021)

Philbert said:


> View attachment 885333
> 
> Found this illustration. For each type of chain, count out the number of cutters for *12* drive links (_*only 10 drive links shown above*_):
> Full House = 12
> ...


Very comprehensive as usual Philbert.
Cheers


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## pbilly (Jan 29, 2021)

Saw Dr. said:


> Had a long time customer come in several weeks ago looking for .325 skip chain for his 550xp. I explained to him that no such thing exists. He is CONVINCED that skip tooth anything is better. Yesterday he comes in and _tells_ me to order everything to convert his 550 to 3/8. I told him it could be done, but that it would cut slower with 3/8 skip, and he didn't care. I do not understand these guys swearing by skip on short bars. Does he really think that Husky would have put .325 on there if JGX would cut faster???? The 3/8 chain is cheaper to manufacture anyway!?!?!?
> 
> So I dug around and we actually already had all of what he needed. Oregon doesn't even make a 3/8 sprocket for the 550, but the factory rim can be swapped for 3/8, so I am good for when he comes back. I just don't get it. We have started carrying 20" loops of skip, and I have stopped telling guys that it cuts slower. I even spoke with my Oregon rep, and told him they should start selling .325 skip. There is absolutely no practical purpose, but we could sure sell a bunch of it.


you just cant fix stupid.....


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## Del_ (Jan 29, 2021)

I'm running a Stihl 036 pro with a 20 inch bar with a full skip 3/8 pitch RS chain.

Made from a broken 36 inch full skip chain that had a section damaged back in 92 or so and hung on a nail ever since. It cuts good but I only made it up to use up the chain as my 36 inch bars wear .404 RS full complement, if that is the right term.


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## windthrown (Jan 30, 2021)

cbfarmall said:


> Somebody dug up an old thread....
> 
> RandyMac said it best. Skip chain is for saws trying to play out of their league.


Yeah, well I met him at a GTG once here and that just ain't the case. Especially when cutting soft coastal redwoods, which Randy boasts about cutting the most. You can cut that stuff with a butter knife, and a longer bar with skip is just the ticket on falling redwoods. But I speak for myself and my experience falling redwoods, not posting what other people say. Trash talk skip all you want. I will keep using it.


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## Dickried (Feb 1, 2021)

windthrown said:


> Now now... you are doin' that new math and brainy reasoning. Not fair! Of course, there is also semi-skip... and the sound of some brains sizzling trying to figure that one out. And the soon to follow trash talk about how ineffective and useless it is.
> 
> I have been using skip for many years now (after joining this site) and it is effective in different situations. Like noodling rounds and keeping revs up with a longer bar. Of course I also use a picco B&C on my 026 for a narrower kerf and hence faster cutting as a result. BUT NO! That cannot happen!


I like semi skip, cuts smooth like skip but isn't as jumpy in plunge cuts.


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## Dickried (Feb 1, 2021)

Philbert said:


> Skip tooth also helps with chip clearance on larger diameter wood.
> 
> Philbert


Fact


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## sean donato (Feb 1, 2021)

If problems like these is all we have to contend with in life, we must have it pretty good. Run whatever chin you like. I personally swap around on my larger bars, depending on the tree at hand. 20" and under get full comp. Just the way I do it.


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## edisto (Feb 1, 2021)

farmguywithasaw said:


> True however if your cutting dirty wood it’s nice that you have 1/3 less teeth to sharpen



Except for the fact that you have to sharpen them more often...


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## Westboastfaller (Feb 1, 2021)

Canyon Angler said:


> Yeah, I get that. I've never tried to run an "overbarred" or "overchained" saw, but if your bar was too long, or you used a full-comp chain where you should have used a skip chain, couldn't you just kind of "feather" the saw in the cut with a light touch, so that you could keep your rpms maxed out? If it was do-able, I suspect the speed difference between skip chain and full comp would be "a wash" and they would be roughly equal. Be interesting to do a test...


You can 'float' round chisel to an extent. It's really done to break the contour when making felling cuts to stop an aggressive chain from stopping when In the vulnerable stage. You wouldn't be using the dogs to start until it got going with some species.
I am talking about skip.
With full comp It's really something you would need to adapter your filling to.
When I had cut Seismic in G&O, pretty much everyone from the west ran stock 365 or 372 with 24" bars with full comp chain.
That would be about equal to running a 36" skip on a 365. Who does that, right?
They are all full wraps and felling dogs and certified Fallers. There is certainly many different levels. The higher level guys would be felling with the dogs and in order to do that then they would have to file up into the corner. I'm sure well over 10°.
Possibly 20-25° at a guess to split the corner and round the point? It's certainly not determined by the manufacturers specs,, but gullet depth, file size and necessity. Having said that, I have been known to carve into the straps.
I'm one of the few that would run a ported 372 and I would still file that way when it makes sense. You are only just Falling as you have a lead cutter blazing and finishing the trail. You can't nip brush as well of bore as well but there is not anything like it when falling most mixed hardwood/softwood. Smooth with long shavings.
------
Whilst on a mountain pine beetle job, I had my block thrower run one of my 372 with skip, I ran full comp. Both ported equally by the the same guy. I would file the chains exacly the same.
The full comp would drop out slightly ahead. They evened out in a 22" pine log. Possibly would even out with the same filing at 18" in some hardwoods, would be my guess?

We are talking 8hp ported 372's


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