# Echo's new top handle: CS-355T



## Edge & Engine (Aug 17, 2012)

The CS-355T should be available any day now, just thought I'd start this thread now and put down what we know so far. 
Rated power: 1.6kw (2.13hp)
Weight: currently unkown
Max RPM: 13,800-14,300
Dual post windowed chain brake
Comes with 2 interchangeable palm rests
More compact design vs previous models, rumored to be lighter as well
Retail $399
More details to come


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## jus2fat (Aug 17, 2012)

Well..I must say that the price sure sounds good..!!

And really good hp..if it's true..

Surely..they wouldn't have a lot going for them and screw up on the weight..??

(and NO readers...I'm NOT going to say ONE word about the warranty..!!)

J2F


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## blsnelling (Aug 17, 2012)

I saw an Echo brochure that said it had the power of a 200T, lighter weight, 5 year warranty, and much less expensive.


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## zogger (Aug 17, 2012)

Thunderwoods! Two saws enter, one saw leaves....


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## Edge & Engine (Aug 17, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I saw an Echo brochure that said it had the power of a 200T, lighter weight, 5 year warranty, and much less expensive. It's actually a Shindaiwa design.



I hadn't heard about the Shindaiwa part, but it wouldn't surprise me. 
I found the weight spec: 7.7lbs dry!
It has larger fluid capacities than the MS201T.


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## Cedar Row (Aug 17, 2012)

I just bought a Echo CS360T, and I wondered why the Echo website had eliminated the 360 on the main chainsaw page, and on another page all the saw names were in red ink but the 360 was in black. Now I know why. It will be interesting to see what improvements there are. It (355T) seems to be $100.00 more.
Bought a Stihl MS361 just before the 362 came out. The 361 works fine for me.


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## pgg (Aug 17, 2012)

yes, this year the amazing echos will be "just as good" as the stihls... and at half the price! It's absolutely incredible!


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## Edge & Engine (Aug 17, 2012)

pgg said:


> yes, this year the amazing echos will be "just as good" as the stihls... and at half the price! It's absolutely incredible!



What took you so long:msp_tongue:


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## XSKIER (Aug 17, 2012)

pgg said:


> yes, this year the amazing echos will be "just as good" as the stihls... and at half the price! It's absolutely incredible!



Maybe, 

Without flippy caps no other saw will ever be as good! I kinda feel the same way about the price point. Over two horsepower for four hundred bucks is nice. I'd have given it serious consideration if I knew about it. The echo dealer near me sells echo, husqy, and REALLY pushes Stihl.


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## pgg (Aug 17, 2012)

Edge & Engine said:


> What took you so long:msp_tongue:




yeah sorry, was busy sending cash to nigeria


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 17, 2012)

pgg said:


> yeah sorry, was busy sending cash to nigeria



You too? I just sent 2k over there but they promised to send me 10k back:msp_thumbsup:


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## turtle561 (Aug 17, 2012)

some some [video=youtube;oQmFUZVHzj0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQmFUZVHzj0[/video]


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## jus2fat (Aug 17, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The 355 should be a significant step up over either of their current models. This is a true pro saw. No clamshell engine in this one! Based on the specs, I can't see why anyone would even consider a 192T.


Well..I can certainly see your point as for performance and* if *it is truly a Pro grade saw.

But the 192T (at least mine)..(paid $150)..has served me very well..was practically in new condition..light homeowner use.

But I bought it from a dealer in Michigan who guaranteed the saw for 30 days or $$ back..

So perhaps I'm the exception rather than the rule.

The new 355 is still 33% higher than a new 192T..so that might matter to older folks..limited income..just yard clean-up use.

And once again..I will NOT go into the warranty comparison between Stihl and Echo..!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Damn - Just saw in the video...there's an ergonomic handle...and a "palm rest"...

Hell.. that's what all us old timers have been dreaming about for years....screw the warranty..!!

J2F


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## blsnelling (Aug 17, 2012)

The 192 is a homeowner grade saw. It's basically a MS170 with a top handle. Same cc, same power, same stamped rod, same clamshell...... Will they cut wood? Sure. But, they're a long way from a pro saw. That's all I'm saying. I won't own Stihl homeowner grade saws. There are simply better options.


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## Cedar Row (Aug 17, 2012)

Can't wait 'till someone buys, tries and comments on the 355T. I'm just wondering about the 355, the 360T I just bought will probably do what I want it to do. But these discussions are always entertaining.


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## blsnelling (Aug 17, 2012)

Something is wrong with the site. I can't even see my list of recent posts. The search function is not working either. Otherwise, I could tell you what Shindaiwa it is they brought back.


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## Edge & Engine (Aug 17, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The 192 is a homeowner grade saw. It's basically a MS170 with a top handle. Same cc, same power, same stamped rod, same clamshell...... Will they cut wood? Sure. But, they're a long way from a pro saw. That's all I'm saying. I won't own Stihl homeowner grade saws. There are simply better options.
> 
> The 355T is basically a Shindaiwa with a vertically split mag case, forged rod, bolt on cylinder......



I think you must be confused with another saw, The 355T does have a forged rod, but it is a clamshell engine. It is also a new design, based off a model previously sold in Europe and Asia, with modifications.

View attachment 248961


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## blsnelling (Aug 17, 2012)

Edge & Engine said:


> I think you must be confused with another saw, The 355T does have a forged rod, but it is a clamshell engine.
> 
> View attachment 248961



Hmmm. Maybe I bought misinformation, and then spread more misinformation myself. My appoligies. I'll continue to see if I can find the other thread where this saw was discussed. Thanks for the facts. I'll go eat my humble pie now

Edit: I went back and editted/deleted posts so as to not spread misinformation.


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## jus2fat (Aug 17, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Hmmm. Maybe I bought misinformation, and then spread more misinformation myself. My appoligies. I'll continue to see if I can find the other thread where this saw was discussed. Thanks for the facts. I'll go eat my humble pie now
> 
> Edit: I went back and editted/deleted posts so as to not spread misinformation.


Brad..I really respect you very much...and hope you didn't take my post wrong..!!

But the 192T is a well known super light-weight saw (yes..a top handle 170) but a good saw for it's intended purpose.

I have many elderly folks in my neighborhood that I do clean-up work for free..Usually using the 192T rather than the 200T.

The men usually want to try it out (not gonna buy one) but they love it's combination of balance and power..(OK not that much)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If this is indeed a clamshell saw..regardless of the amenities (handle..palm rest) it's still 33% higher than a 192T

(which a really lightly used one can be had every week on eBay for about $150)

If it's got the power advertised..it might be OK for a home owner...but clamshell..spells NO to a Pro worker..for $400!!

J2F


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## pgg (Aug 18, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> If it's got the power advertised..it might be OK for a home owner...but clamshell..spells NO to a Pro worker..for $400!!
> 
> J2F




uummm... the claims you constantly hear on this site about clamshell engines being "not as good" as a non-clamshell engine are such nonsense. A clamshell engine is just another design, with equal cc's there's no bloody difference in performance, there's no difference in longevity or power or whatever. The XPT TH huskys are 100% pro-grade saws and they're clamshell design, I've run them trouble-free for decades and they actually more robust and outlast the "better"(sigh) 200T engine. Just thought I'd mention that... BUT OF COURSE I AIN'T PRAISING ANY ECHO! The 350T/360T's are absolute pigs of TH saws compared to the "equivalent" pro husky and pro stihls. 

Had another go on one(350T) in the trees this week pruning(for about two minutes - that was more than enough)and they're truly nasty nasty saws compared to the real deal pro stuff. Anyone thinking a half-price saw can equal the top models out there are dreaming man. I guarantee this new-fangled 355 TH will be just another hyped-up exercise in propaganda and downright lies and mis-information . AS PER NORMAL for echo.... :msp_biggrin:


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## TimberMcPherson (Aug 18, 2012)

pgg said:


> uummm... the claims you constantly hear on this site about clamshell engines being "not as good" as a non-clamshell engine are such nonsense. A clamshell engine is just another design, with equal cc's there's no bloody difference in performance, there's no difference in longevity or power or whatever. The XPT TH huskys are 100% pro-grade saws and they're clamshell design, I've run them trouble-free for decades and they actually more robust and outlast the "better"(sigh) 200T engine. Just thought I'd mention that... BUT OF COURSE I AIN'T PRAISING ANY ECHO! The 350T/360T's are absolute pigs of TH saws compared to the "equivalent" pro husky and pro stihls.
> 
> Had another go on one(350T) in the trees this week pruning(for about two minutes - that was more than enough)and they're truly nasty nasty saws compared to the real deal pro stuff. Anyone thinking a half-price saw can equal the top models out there are dreaming man. I guarantee this new-fangled 355 TH will be just another hyped-up exercise in propaganda and downright lies and mis-information . AS PER NORMAL for echo.... :msp_biggrin:



I have 3 260t's and a couple 350t's. They are fine saws, and although they may lack some of the refinement of the MS200t, the main thing that stops me from ditching all my stihl top handles in favour of the echos is the echos chainbrake. It stinks to operate.

I dont look at the new MS201t with any great hope, sure its okay, but in this country its likely to be 600 US dollars more than the echo. If its 80% of the ms201 for 50% of the price, I will be doing my math carefully.


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## Edge & Engine (Aug 18, 2012)

jus2fat said:


> Brad..I really respect you very much...and hope you didn't take my post wrong..!!
> 
> But the 192T is a well known super light-weight saw (yes..a top handle 170) but a good saw for it's intended purpose.
> 
> ...



Why would it being a clamshell engine automatically spell no to a pro worker? There have been some great saws made even 30 years ago, with clamshell engines. I happen to agree with pgg here. I have never seen any data to support the idea that clamshell engines are somehow inferior to split cranks. Some say they're harder to service, which is true for some saws, but cannot be said as a blanket statement. The CS-341T has been in use professionally for years (and in surprising numbers), with a clamshell engine.


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## XSKIER (Aug 18, 2012)

Consider that a 3.0L mercury "Black Max" 225hp pro series outboard is a "clamshell". In regards to handheld equipment, the clamshell may just be the best way for low cost manufacture. Doesn't nessecerily mean an inferior design, but high end refinements may be lacking. I mean come on, the saw has a "300" durability rating for Pete's sake. How many other saws claim that?


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## Cliff R (Aug 18, 2012)

The "clamshell" design simply means that if you have P/C issues, the fix is going to be hours of work to correct instead of minutes. Pretty intrusive to go in and split the case vs simply removing intake/exhaust and 4 fasteners to get the jug off of one.

I'm still running my little muffler modded CS-360T almost daily, cutting no slack anyplace, and we just can NOT get it to develope the "death-rattle" PGG said it would get several years ago. Humm, even used it on several commercial jobs, one where we took out over 70 trees on an estate in Delaware Ohio, most pine trees with LOTS of limbing involved. It ran for two days straight without a break on that job alone and never grumbled once.

I guess we are smart enough over here to know the difference between "4-stroking" and going on the rev-limiter when adjusting the carburetor.....FWIW

This new CS-355T looks remarkable similiar to the CS-330/360T's, with a few additional features. Hopefully the narrowed it up some to look more like the sleek little Stihl MS200T. Looking forward to hearing some reviews on it, and maybe one of the resident hot-rodders will go at one with a sanding roll and extract even more power from them......Cliff

Here's my helper Nathan on the Delaware job, we couldn't pry the little CS-360T away from him all weekend.....


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## mountainlake (Aug 18, 2012)

Can't complain about working on the newer Echo clamshell models, it takes about 10 minutes to have the whole engine laying on the bench. Rated power is bs, always has been, how does it cut side by side? Steve


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## Tzed250 (Aug 18, 2012)

Here is a pic of a parallel twin TZ250 engine:





Untitled by zweitakt250, on Flickr

A "clamshell" design. 

The top end, crankshaft and jackshaft, and entire gearbox can be serviced without removing the main case from the chassis. 

Sound engineering.


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## TK (Aug 18, 2012)

"Professional" trimmers and pole saws are typically of clamshell design. As for Echo, there are plenty of trimmers and pole pruners out there from a time period a lot of folks like to call "way back when." Durability of the engine isn't really an issue. And in a top handle saw, popping the jug off doesn't happen the same way as a rear handle saw.


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## pgg (Aug 18, 2012)

Cliff R said:


> I'm still running my little muffler modded CS-360T almost daily, cutting no slack anyplace, and we just can NOT get it to develope the "death-rattle" PGG said it would get several years ago.
> 
> I guess we are smart enough over here to know the difference between "4-stroking" and going on the rev-limiter when adjusting the carburetor.....FWIW
> 
> ...


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## Incomplete (Aug 18, 2012)

pgg said:


> Cliff R said:
> 
> 
> > Have someone running at the moment,(poor bastard) a 350T, has a gutted baffle but still sounds screechy and nasty......and the screeching engine sets your nerves on end. There's only power at full screaming screech, anywhere else in the rev range it's flat and dead. Fekk I hope it blows as soon as possible. My ears can't handle echos. If all else fails I hear a handful of sand down the carb can fix them pretty good too
> ...


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## Kodiak42 (Aug 18, 2012)

It's almost amazing how experinces between users can be so different. Not trying to start anything, I fall in the same catergory at times also.


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## mountainlake (Aug 18, 2012)

The deal with PGG is that about 98% of actual Echo owners like them, him Saw TRoll and a couple other don't for what ever reason. I'm wondering why PGG is even running a ECho 350 Steve


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## pgg (Aug 18, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> The deal with PGG is that about 98% of actual Echo owners like them, him Saw TRoll and a couple other don't for what ever reason. I'm wondering why PGG is even running a ECho 350 Steve



I'm not running an echo steven, would sooner use a blunt axe, and your statistics show me that about 98% of echo owners have never run anything else:msp_tongue:


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## mountainlake (Aug 18, 2012)

pgg said:


> I'm not running an echo steven, would sooner use a blunt axe, and your statistics show me that about 98% of echo owners have never run anything else:msp_tongue:



I run Echo, Stihl, Husky, Dolmar, Efco, Solo,Mac,Homelite etc over here and the Echo saws run right with any of them cc for cc and have more durabilty than most. Steve


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## jus2fat (Aug 19, 2012)

Edge & Engine said:


> Why would it being a clamshell engine *automatically* spell no to a pro worker?


I guess "interpretation" is difficult..as is "the meaning of words" / wording on the internet rather that spoken one to one.

I never said the clamshell.."automatically" spells NO to a Pro. I should have said.."decreases it's likely probability of purchase"..??

Some folks like "Thall" and "mountalnlake" can work on these in minutes...but they aren't doing Pro cutting operations.

And of course neither am I...I probably shouldn't have posted anything and just kept my opinions to myself..!!

But a Pro quality saw (turns out it's not) on a spec. level as the 200T...for $400 just drew me in...MY MISTAKE..!!

J2F


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## Cliff R (Aug 20, 2012)

"hahaha I've seen a whole heap of those junk saws with blown engines".

I'm not the first bit interested in what you have seen, because that is second hand information. I've "seen" MS200's KILLED by folks who didn't have a clue how to run a saw, correctly mix fuel, adjust carburetors, etc.

I've never had the first P/C failure of any sort with any saw we've owned, tuned, maintained, no matter what brand it was.

I am NOT a big Echo fan running around waving the flag, etc. I have owned quite a few of them, and still have a couple of them left in the line-up. I think that all their reed-valve models are pathetically underpowered, but still dead solid reliable. 

It is also my opinion, that some of the larger models are slow and underpowered as well, at least compared to their Stihl and Husqvarna counterparts.

Echo has a few very good models in their line-up, that rival the competition. Pound for pound the CS-510/520's are hard to beat.

Their little CS-370/400's are excellent units, with plenty of power for the cc's, and very well made and durable for the price.

The CS-360T we have here has proven to be not only dead solid reliable, but decent power and chain speed as well. I find it a tad "bulky" for a top handle saw, and am not very fond of the rev limiter either, but it does what we ask of it, and still no matter how hard we try, it will not develope a "death rattle". Instead, like all the other Echo power equipment we have been associated with, it just keeps on working like it's supposed to.

So I come on this sight, and every single time an Echo topic comes up, PGG starts his little "bashing" deal. 

I'd just like to know where all the hatred comes from? You just talking with others around the campfire over some beers, or have you been out in the field smoking the P/C's in these saws yourself?.......Cliff


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## pgg (Aug 20, 2012)

Cliff R said:


> I'm not the first bit interested in what you have seen, because that is second hand information. I've "seen" MS200's KILLED by folks who didn't have a clue how to run a saw, correctly mix fuel, adjust carburetors, etc.
> So I come on this sight, and every single time an Echo topic comes up, PGG starts his little "bashing" deal.
> 
> I'd just like to know where all the hatred comes from




I see, mr sooky bub, the worlds leading expert on how to run saws, correctly mix fuel and adjust carbs. Still having a big cry over spilled milk. wipe your tears fella and go buy yourself a proper bloody saw


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## Cliff R (Aug 20, 2012)

Just as I suspected, just another guy with a bad attitude and no direct information or experience. Instead of "bashing" saws and folks provided accurate and up to date information on these things, why don't you go out back and take a picture of this BIG pile of Echo saws with smoked P/C's so we can see why you have such a hatred for them. To be perfectly honest, this "diarrhea of the mouth" we keep seeing here when it comes to this topic is getting a little old.......Cliff


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 20, 2012)

I haven't run Echos saw long enough to give a good opinion but the little i did run a CS-360T i didn't like it, the chain brake it just felt cheap like it was gonna break right off,power wise i didn't run it long enough to give a good opinion.


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## Kodiak42 (Sep 2, 2012)

I feel the the same way about the MS 192. When I bought the 360t it it was a few hundred less than the 200t and about the same as the 192t, I like Stilh saws but to each their own.


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## pgg (Sep 2, 2012)

Cliff R said:


> just another guy with a bad attitude and no direct information or experience...



Sigh.... What a winner you are... :censored: didn't I tell you to go wipe your tears? Get a life ya miserable little git!


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## Kodiak42 (Sep 2, 2012)

If its cool with everyone, lets just call a truce and end this thread I didnt mean to dig anything up.

The saw posted isnt even out yet in the States, as far as I know .But then again what do I know.

The moral of the story even if someone hates your saw and you are cool with it, that is all that matters. 

Stay safe everyone, have a great weekend and cut some wood with your favorite saw.


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## pgg (Sep 2, 2012)

Kodiak42 said:


> ... The moral of the story even if someone hates your saw and you are cool with it, that is all that matters...


 

Kodes you're on to it but the sour brigade out there still can't can't quite grasp that concept yet


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## Edge & Engine (Sep 27, 2012)

We'll be getting the 355t's in today.


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## Chris J. (Sep 27, 2012)

Edge & Engine said:


> We'll be getting the 355t's in today.



Good to hear, Kyle. Are y'all going to run one?


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## Edge & Engine (Sep 27, 2012)

Chris J. said:


> Good to hear, Kyle. Are y'all going to run one?



Yes, but my day is pretty full today so I may not get a chance to fire one up until tomorrow.


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## gage52 (Sep 27, 2012)

echo rep brought out one of the new saws to my jobsite today. used it on a few pines with a 12in bar. seems to do well not as well as my older 200t but better then my 201t. keep in mind that the echo was never ran, so it hasn't broke in yet. i think i will buy one before i'll get another 201. rep said the price was 450.00. thats alot cheaper then what i just paid for the stihl.


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 27, 2012)

gage52 said:


> echo rep brought out one of the new saws to my jobsite today. used it on a few pines with a 12in bar. seems to do well not as well as my older 200t but better then my 201t. keep in mind that the echo was never ran, so it hasn't broke in yet. i think i will buy one before i'll get another 201. rep said the price was 450.00. thats alot cheaper then what i just paid for the stihl.



Mod your 201t and it will be stronger than your 200.


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## pgg (Sep 28, 2012)

gage52 said:


> rep said the price was 450.00. thats alot cheaper then what i just paid for the stihl.




Yes "In life you get what you pay for" never applies to echos because echos have got power-vortexTM


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## tallguys (Sep 28, 2012)

I've never run the Echo tophandles so have no dog in this fight. I will say this though, my Echo pole saw has held its own just as well as any Stihl one that I used previously. 

I see enough landscape/tree service companies using Echo equipment around here as well. IMHO, they can't all be bad if the commercial outfits are running them. 

As with anything, there are bound to be some less than desirable ones in the bucket...


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## Chris J. (Sep 28, 2012)

Based on what I see being used around Houston, FWIW....

Professional landscaping and lawn service companies, blowers & trimmers:
1. Echo--First & foremost.
2. Stihl--A distant second.
3. Husqvarna--A distant third.

Professional tree service companies, chainsaws:
1. Stihl.
2a. Husqvarna--Not a distant second, but also not close to Stihl.
2b. Echo--Mostly top handle saws and/or small saws, not many large saws.


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## s219 (Sep 28, 2012)

I have gotten to know a lot of tree guys in this area in the last year, and the vast majority of them run Stihls for their big saws, and top-handle Echos for their little saws. A lot of the Echos are a couple generations old (with older color schemes), and have been in service a long time.


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## Edge & Engine (Sep 28, 2012)

I'll be getting some video later today. I wish I had a 200t or 201t in to compare it with, but I don't right now. 

You can have one for $399...


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## computeruser (Sep 28, 2012)

Looking forward to seeing the video on this...might be worth adding one to the stable. Are we correct to assume that bar mount and DL at any given bar length should be the same with other Echo top-handle saws?


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## millbilly (Sep 28, 2012)

pgg said:


> uummm... the claims you constantly hear on this site about clamshell engines being "not as good" as a non-clamshell engine are such nonsense. A clamshell engine is just another design, with equal cc's there's no bloody difference in performance, there's no difference in longevity or power or whatever. The XPT TH huskys are 100% pro-grade saws and they're clamshell design, I've run them trouble-free for decades and they actually more robust and outlast the "better"(sigh) 200T engine. Just thought I'd mention that... BUT OF COURSE I AIN'T PRAISING ANY ECHO! The 350T/360T's are absolute pigs of TH saws compared to the "equivalent" pro husky and pro stihls.
> 
> Had another go on one(350T) in the trees this week pruning(for about two minutes - that was more than enough)and they're truly nasty nasty saws compared to the real deal pro stuff. Anyone thinking a half-price saw can equal the top models out there are dreaming man. I guarantee this new-fangled 355 TH will be just another hyped-up exercise in propaganda and downright lies and mis-information . AS PER NORMAL for echo.... :msp_biggrin:



Get a grip Fransis. Your ignorance is showing.


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## pgg (Sep 29, 2012)

millbilly said:


> Get a grip Fransis. Your ignorance is showing.



who TF are you and what's your story turkey?


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## Chris J. (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm looking forward to seeing the video of the CS-355T in action. 


And now for something completely different.

A the below-quoted post is from another thread.



pgg said:


> uummm... the claims you constantly hear on this site about clamshell engines being "not as good" as a non-clamshell engine are such nonsense. A clamshell engine is just another design, with equal cc's there's no bloody difference in performance, there's no difference in longevity or power or whatever. *The XPT TH huskys are 100% pro-grade saws and they're clamshell design, I've run them trouble-free for decades and they actually more robust and outlast the "better"(sigh) 200T engine. Just thought I'd mention that...* BUT OF COURSE I AIN'T PRAISING ANY ECHO! The 350T/360T's are absolute pigs of TH saws compared to the "equivalent" pro husky and pro stihls.
> 
> Had another go on one(350T) in the trees this week pruning(for about two minutes - that was more than enough)and they're truly nasty nasty saws compared to the real deal pro stuff. Anyone thinking a half-price saw can equal the top models out there are dreaming man. I guarantee this new-fangled 355 TH will be just another hyped-up exercise in propaganda and downright lies and mis-information . AS PER NORMAL for echo.... :msp_biggrin:



I'm seeing some glaring contradictions in your posts, pgg. 

1. In the above quote, you are one of the very few arborists (I'm taking you at your word that you are actually an arborist) to sing the praises of the Husqvarna TH saws.

2. What about your many posts where you declared the Stihl MS200T do be the best--by an extremely wide margin--top handle chainsaw ever?


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 29, 2012)

Chris J. said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing the video of the CS-355T in action.
> 
> 
> And now for something completely different.
> ...




I love my Husky's, but i don't like the feel of their TH so i use STIHL they just feel better in my hands.


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## indiansprings (Sep 29, 2012)

I use a top handle saw very little in my operation, I have one an old 009 and my son has a 200T. Bought have been extremely reliable, the 009 is literally beat to death, but still runs good when I need it too. 
I don't think the average user is at any disadvantage with a clamshell design saw, I had several and had no issues, until I joined here I thought they were a PIA to work on but after THALL's disassembly thread it made it much easier to work on them.
I am not really a Echo fan, but I know that their string trimmers and blowers are excellent equipment. I do believe they have worked hard on improving the performance of their saws. I've had a chance to run I believe it was a 520, it was okay, didn't knock my socks off, but have no idea if it was broke in and thinking back it was prolly on the rich side, a proper tune could have prolly helped it. They may be a excellent saw but the local dealer we have just is adamant that the warranty is worth a hoot. That it takes an act of congress to get a claim apporved and for the dealer to get reimbushed. 
No more than I use a top handle, I would have to take a hard look at it if I needed one, just due to the price differential. If I was a climber and used one all the time I would have to go with the 201 and mod it, just because of the relationship with my dealer, I know he would take care of it........period.
Echo's spending some marketing money and trying to stress their products are pro grade, I'm sure you'll prolly see a increase in product in the big box stores, challenging Huskies dominance in that market segment.


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## griffonks (Sep 29, 2012)

I'd like to see the video too. I think I want to buy one for kicks. The only top handle I have had was a Stihl 009, out of the trash bin at my local Stihl shop for $10... It's still running after some original repair work.

I have no idea what a 200T or a 201 feels like running as I have no need for a climbers saw in that price range. I'm sure it's a better saw, there must be something for the higher cost. I do have some Echo's though, A 670 and another smaller saw that is in the 40cc class (it rides in my truck box). Both are extremely reliable, but clunky in the hand. The 670 will pull a 27 inch blade buried in wet cottonwood no problem. I think it will out cut my MS390...


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## 166 (Oct 26, 2012)

[video=youtube_share;CobeC6B67wA]http://youtu.be/CobeC6B67wA[/video]


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## 166 (Oct 26, 2012)




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## 166 (Oct 26, 2012)




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## 166 (Oct 26, 2012)




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## struggle (Oct 26, 2012)

I wonder how this saw will respond to some tuning with muffler mod?


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## bryanr2 (Oct 26, 2012)

struggle said:


> I wonder how this saw will respond to some tuning with muffler mod?



I wonder how this saw will respond to some Mastermind? :monkey:


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## 166 (Oct 26, 2012)

struggle said:


> I wonder how this saw will respond to some tuning with muffler mod?





bryanr2 said:


> I wonder how this saw will respond to some Mastermind? :monkey:



I wonder how the Echo rep will respond if it gets louder?


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## pgg (Oct 27, 2012)

wonder how the poor brainwashed echo brigade will respond to me calling the echo 355 out as just another sluggish vibration-prone unbalanced wimpy piece of echo shyte? Going by the vid I see NOTHING has changed, just another mediocre pile of junk, look at the bloody exhaust port for krissakes, how ****** strangled can ya get? TYPICAL gutless echo methinks


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## struggle (Oct 27, 2012)

Is there any other saws that share that style of side port? Advantage dis-advantages? 

I'm not going to bag on it yet until the pro modders call out its limitations:msp_sneaky:


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## pgg (Oct 27, 2012)

struggle said:


> Is there any other saws that share that style of side port? Advantage dis-advantages?
> 
> I'm not going to bag on it yet until the pro modders call out its limitations:msp_sneaky:



I've seen those ports on chinese junk saws with their tinfoil metals and brittle plastics, looks to me rather than improving, these echos are getting even worse than they were previously.... Wow, never really thought that could happen


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 27, 2012)

pgg said:


> I've seen those ports on chinese junk saws with their tinfoil metals and brittle plastics, looks to me rather than improving, these echos are getting even worse than they were previously.... Wow, never really thought that could happen



You forgot to answer Chris J.'s question there mate, you seem to do that occasionally


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## mountainlake (Oct 27, 2012)

Looks like the same kind of porting as the CS400 which is a strong saws for 40cc. Steve


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## brokenbudget (Oct 27, 2012)

pgg said:


> I've seen those ports on chinese junk saws with their tinfoil metals and brittle plastics, looks to me rather than improving, these echos are getting even worse than they were previously.... Wow, never really thought that could happen



you say you have seen bunch of these little echos' blown up. do you have any pics for proof?
seems even the people that usualy buy the 200t's like the little echos' when they run them. they usualy end up buying a few and never look back to the very problematic, very expensive to fix stihl. 
you say you base your "opinion" on "experience", just wondering if you have anything to back your "experience" up.
come on pgg, back up what you claim. or are you going to go cower in the corner like sawtroll when confronted with a challenge to one of your claims.
oh thats right! no proof, no pics, no vid, nothing to back up your claim of the 'death rattle', just useless insults and bogus info. the usual.


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## mountainlake (Oct 27, 2012)

PGG has already admitted the ones blown haven't been tuned and most on here know a saw will sieze when run lean. Steve


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## brokenbudget (Oct 27, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> PGG has already admitted the ones blown haven't been tuned and most on here know a saw will sieze when run lean. Steve



yes, however this is far from his description of a 'death rattle'. if he's had as many (or seen) of these small echos' all blown up, or siezed or over heat, he must have proof if he's making the claims he does.
i suspect if he's had probems in the past he needs to learn proper operating and maintenace practices. however, i feel some people just have too many rocks in there head to figure that part out.


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## mountainlake (Oct 27, 2012)

[ i feel some people just have too many rocks in there head to figure that part out.[/QUOTE]


I really think that's what's rattling when PGG runs a Echo. Steve


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## arathol (Oct 27, 2012)

brokenbudget said:


> you say you have seen bunch of these little echos' blown up. do you have any pics for proof?
> seems even the people that usualy buy the 200t's like the little echos' when they run them. they usualy end up buying a few and never look back to the very problematic, very expensive to fix stihl.
> you say you base your "opinion" on "experience", just wondering if you have anything to back your "experience" up.
> come on pgg, back up what you claim. or are you going to go cower in the corner like sawtroll when confronted with a challenge to one of your claims.
> oh thats right! no proof, no pics, no vid, nothing to back up your claim of the 'death rattle', just useless insults and bogus info. the usual.



Ignore the trolls and they will go away. Keep responding and they will always return for more.


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## borat (Oct 27, 2012)

I see a lot of badmouthing against Echo saws by one individual. Sounds like unfounded bitterness for reasons unknown. Occasionally, an idividual will have one bad experience with a product/dealer and thereafter go on a life long campaign against it/them. Sort of like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Only one loser in that deal.

I've primarily owned larger (60cc plus) Jonsereds saws for over 30 years. Great performing, tough, durable and heavy saws. About five years ago I bought a rear handle Echo CS346 just to have a lighter saw to use. I have nothing negative to say about it. I did mod the muffler and adjust the carb accordingly. Other than that it's add fuel/oil and sharpen/replace the chain as required. 

I carry that saw everywhere I go and prefer to use it when conditons warrant which is most of the time. 

I'm not a "brand loyalist" however, I do own several pieces of Echo equipment and appreciate/respect every one. They all fire up willingly and do what they're designed to do quite well. I also own Stihl, Redmax, Shindaiwa two cycle powered products which are also fine. I see no distinct advantage of any of the above mentioned brands other than Echo's more attractive prices. 

Anyone whose willing to badmouth and avoid a perfectly respectable brand for no substantiated reason is missing out. Especially when that product is sold at reasonable prices, carries a decent warranty and is supported by a large chain of dealerships/vendors. 

Let him squawk all he wants. It's his loss.


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## pgg (Oct 27, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> You forgot to answer Chris J.'s question there mate, you seem to do that occasionally




Who TF is chris j and what TF was the question? and all you poor precious little echo babies crying and bawling, get a grip, some clown asking me if i have "proof" of all the saws I've seen rattle to death in the bush.. hoho no idea this crowd


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 28, 2012)

pgg said:


> Who TF is chris j and what TF was the question? and all you poor precious little echo babies crying and bawling, get a grip, some clown asking me if i have "proof" of all the saws I've seen rattle to death in the bush.. hoho no idea this crowd



Bottom of post 56?


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## s219 (Oct 28, 2012)

Love my Echo, one of my best saws.


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## brokenbudget (Oct 28, 2012)

pgg said:


> Who TF is chris j and what TF was the question? and all you poor precious little echo babies crying and bawling, get a grip, some clown asking me if i have "proof" of all the saws I've seen rattle to death in the bush.. hoho no idea this crowd





yep! didn't prove me wrong.:msp_rolleyes: couldn't come back with anything except useless drivel:spam:
come on pp boy, back up your claim. seems all you can do is throw insults when confronted with your own claims. wheres your proof of this 'death rattle'? somebody who claims a company is so bad would have something other than insults to fall on. heck, you'd think this would be a priority for that person considering said person is constantly whining and complaining about echos' quality.
so pp boy, why is it that people who buy these 'death rattle" machines are crybabies? please explain as it seems they are quite happy and don't seem to be snivling or complaining one bit with their purchase. even going so far as to buy more of them later. so come on pgg, what makes them bawling crybabies? seems only one person here crying about an echo.
'hoho no idea this crowd' what exactly does this mean? lots of people here right in this thread have run far more saw manufacturers, weather it's top handles or not, and they seem to be buying these little echos'. so why would you figure they don't have an idea? seems they have a far broader idea than some child with nothing better do to than dry hump a stihl and call it the best he's ever had.


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## TheDarkHorse (Oct 28, 2012)

Does the 355t have the low end torque that the 201t lost from its move from the 200t?


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 28, 2012)

brokenbudget said:


> yep! didn't prove me wrong.:msp_rolleyes: couldn't come back with anything except useless drivel:spam:
> come on pp boy, back up your claim. seems all you can do is throw insults when confronted with your own claims. wheres your proof of this 'death rattle'? somebody who claims a company is so bad would have something other than insults to fall on. heck, you'd think this would be a priority for that person considering said person is constantly whining and complaining about echos' quality.
> so pp boy, why is it that people who buy these 'death rattle" machines are crybabies? please explain as it seems they are quite happy and don't seem to be snivling or complaining one bit with their purchase. even going so far as to buy more of them later. so come on pgg, what makes them bawling crybabies? seems only one person here crying about an echo.
> 'hoho no idea this crowd' what exactly does this mean? lots of people here right in this thread have run far more saw manufacturers, weather it's top handles or not, and they seem to be buying these little echos'. so why would you figure they don't have an idea? seems they have a far broader idea than some child with nothing better do to than dry hump a stihl and call it the best he's ever had.



He wont back it up, he has a habit of disappearing from threads when his story(s) get challenged


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## mountainlake (Oct 29, 2012)

TheDarkHorse said:


> Does the 355t have the low end torque that the 201t lost from its move from the 200t?



Tuned right every Echo saw I've run has a lot of torque, looks like the 355t has the same porting as the CS400 which has loads of low end torque. Steve


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## see3 (Nov 1, 2012)

*cs-355 four week run time*

a friend of mine got a 355 when they came out and has about 4 weeks of run time on it now.
i was raised on stihl saws and echo trimmers/blowers and had no problem with them.
out of curriosity, we tached the 355 fresh out of the box at 13,200 wot. today it is taching at 14,200-14,600 rpm wot with no mod or carb tweaking yet.
like everyone, i know echo has floundered in the chainsaw department for the past few decades but only time will tell if they have turned over a leaf with the 355.


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## mweba (Nov 1, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> Looks like the same kind of porting as the CS400 which is a strong saws for 40cc. Steve



Same occurred to me. Echo has some of the nicest quality cylinders I've been in.


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## Team FAST (Nov 1, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Here is a pic of a parallel twin TZ250 engine:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh darn! I always follow Echo threads with interest. But then you had to post up some SERIOUS two stroke machinery....which brings me back to my racing days....sigh.

Thanks for the real two stroke memories.

Now I will go back to thinking about working on my hot rod Echo trimmer again, as well as starting my Kawasaki H1 500 restoration.


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## fir (Nov 1, 2012)

I am late here but better late than never. My work got the new echo as a demo saw in June and the husky. The echo was allot better than the husky and not to far off from the stihl. For the price I would buy it.


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## VI sawguy (Nov 2, 2012)

We got our first shipment of the 355T's in this week. Echo did a very good job on this saw, runs really well and has good power. Still waiting on our T540's from Husq and not sure when we will get them.


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## heyduke (Nov 2, 2012)

166 said:


>



Thru all the din, nobody seemed to notice what i think is most significant. This saw seems to lack the catalytic converter found in the cs330/360. Looks like a muffler mod will be little more than enlarging the muffler outlet. the exhaust port in the cylinder looks to be less restrictive too, especially where it bolts up to the muffler. In one of the videos the saw was run and indeed it did sound different from the 330/360 which typically stumbles a bit from 7000 to 10,000 rpm. By the way, I have both the 330 and the 360 which i purchased new around five years ago, primarily for use as climbing/trimming saw. Like all the echo top handles I have owned over the years, they just keep on keepin' on. The only way you can kill them is by dropping them from great height or, more often, running over them with the truck or chipper. Even then you can usually resurrect them with $100 worth of plastic.


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## borat (Nov 2, 2012)

The cylinder layout looks similar to my CS346. Does the 355t have a reed valve as well? 

Not sure why there's so much disdain for reed valves. They were introduced on Yamaha motorcycle engines back in 1973 and have proven to be an asset to engine performance. When it was first introduced by Yamaha on their RD series bikes, it was promoted as "Torque Induction" system. It's supposed to make the bike more manageable and broaden the power band, so they say. The RDs I've ridden have a rather abrupt power curve. Everything is fairly docile until about 5500 rpm then it's like throwing a light switch. Hang on!

What's the method to display the image rather than the link?

Here's a '74 RD350, my favourite motorcycle:

View attachment 260532


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## tolman_paul (Nov 2, 2012)

An abrupt power curve has to do with the ports and pipe, you can make a piston port, reed valve or rotary valve engine that has a broad power curve, and conversley you can make any one of them a light switch motor with an abrupt and brutal hit of power when it gets on the pipe.

The reason saw companies choose their induction pp vs reed has all to do with packaging. Echo chose to lay the engine flat with the carb forward and hence the reed valve was necessary for that configuration. I don't care for the design of the echo reed, but it's simple, compact and inexspensive.


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## heyduke (Nov 2, 2012)

tolman_paul said:


> An abrupt power curve has to do with the ports and pipe, you can make a piston port, reed valve or rotary valve engine that has a broad power curve, and conversley you can make any one of them a light switch motor with an abrupt and brutal hit of power when it gets on the pipe.
> 
> The reason saw companies choose their induction pp vs reed has all to do with packaging. Echo chose to lay the engine flat with the carb forward and hence the reed valve was necessary for that configuration. I don't care for the design of the echo reed, but it's simple, compact and inexspensive.



A reed or rotary valve lets fuel induction be placed directly on the crankcase rather than on a port in the cylinder wall. I may be wrong but I think that max rpm is limited by a reed valve because, like poppet valves, they can start doing weird things above 10,000 rpms. So typically they are used in applications where a wide power band and abundant low end torque is valued over horsepower, like the echo 3400. Also you have more latitude with transfer and exhaust port timing, since you don't have to worry about overlap with the intake ports. Haven't seen the specs but I'm sure the355t is piston ported.

the rd-350 was a great bike but in the same era you had the yamaha tz700. it was so powerful that few riders could master it. it redlined somewhere up in the stratosphere.


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## tolman_paul (Nov 2, 2012)

I don't claim to be an expert on reed valves, but as far as I know all of the state of the art highest hp two strokes today all use reed valve induction. Not sure why the rotary has been ditched, but you'll be hard pressed to find one on an engine built in the past 10 years (excluding rc engines) 125cc tag and icc kart engines are reed valves, gp bikes are reed valve and snowmobiles are reed valve. There is no rpm limit for a properly designed reed valve, there are 100cc kart engines that have turned 20,000 rpm, and 125's that are running 17,000 rpm (some nearly 18,000), these engines start making their power at 10,000 rpm. Not new technology either as my 80's vintage kart engines would make their power between 10,000-15,000 rpm and the engines introduced in the early 90's were turning 17,000 rpm.


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## borat (Nov 2, 2012)

So, why such disdain for reed valves in a chainsaw engine? I've read a few posts where people say engines with reed valves are slow? That's something I've been trying to get my head around. 

I've got quite a few two cycle engines. Many with piston port induction and many with reed valves. Personally, I don't see any difference between them. I've alway thought that technically, reed valve engines are the preferred choice because reeds allowed for more flexibility. 

By the way, the TZ700 was boosted to the TZ750 which King Kenny Roberts won quite a few races on, including one mile flat (dirt track) races. The machine was so powerful and dominant that the AMA banned it, claiming that it was too dangerous to race. Fact of the matter was that they were humiliating the HD XR750 racers and the AMA was worried about losing it's Harley Davidson fan base. However, Kenny Roberts did say it was the scariest machine he'd ever ridden but wasn't intimidated by it once he learned how to use it's power.


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## rms61moparman (Nov 2, 2012)

borat said:


> *So, why such disdain for reed valves in a chainsaw engine? I've read a few posts where people say engines with reed valves are slow? That's something I've been trying to get my head around. *
> I've got quite a few two cycle engines. Many with piston port induction and many with reed valves. Personally, I don't see any difference between them. I've alway thought that technically, reed valve engines are the preferred choice because reeds allowed for more flexibility.
> 
> By the way, the TZ700 was boosted to the TZ750 which King Kenny Roberts won quite a few races on, including one mile flat (dirt track) races. The machine was so powerful and dominant that the AMA banned it, claiming that it was too dangerous to race. Fact of the matter was that they were humiliating the HD XR750 racers and the AMA was worried about losing it's Harley Davidson fan base. However, Kenny Roberts did say it was the scariest machine he'd ever ridden but wasn't intimidated by it once he learned how to use it's power.






It's not that the reed valves make the engine slow.
They were just used on slower designed engines.


Mike


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## heyduke (Nov 2, 2012)

borat said:


> So, why such disdain for reed valves in a chainsaw engine? I've read a few posts where people say engines with reed valves are slow? That's something I've been trying to get my head around.
> 
> I've got quite a few two cycle engines. Many with piston port induction and many with reed valves. Personally, I don't see any difference between them. I've alway thought that technically, reed valve engines are the preferred choice because reeds allowed for more flexibility.
> 
> By the way, the TZ700 was boosted to the TZ750 which King Kenny Roberts won quite a few races on, including one mile flat (dirt track) races. The machine was so powerful and dominant that the AMA banned it, claiming that it was too dangerous to race. Fact of the matter was that they were humiliating the HD XR750 racers and the AMA was worried about losing it's Harley Davidson fan base. However, Kenny Roberts did say it was the scariest machine he'd ever ridden but wasn't intimidated by it once he learned how to use it's power.



yes, i saw kenny roberts race a few times, laguna seca, 180 mph in the straights. i didn't know he ever took one to the mile tracks. the xr750's were awesome on the dirt ovals. i always wanted one for a commute bike. the yamaha td250 road rashers were used in the junior class. they were fast too. i think the main problem with the tz700 was that it had too much power for its frame. too much throttle in a turn would result in tank slappers. but i guess that has nothing to do with cs355t's or piston porting.


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## tolman_paul (Nov 2, 2012)

I think there are a combination of factors as to why most saws are piston ported. The main factor is packaging. A saw engine needs to be light and compact as well as inexpensive. Since saw engines don't use a tuned pipe, they just don't flow enough air/fuel to where a reed valve induction would be a benefit. The piston port conveniently locates the piston higher on the cylinder which allows the fuel tank to be mounted right under it, or at least in the case of most 50cc and larger saws. A reed valve adds additional expense and doesn't give a performance gain for the hp derived from a saw.


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## 166 (Nov 2, 2012)

[video=youtube_share;S2GyZ5_QVag]http://youtu.be/S2GyZ5_QVag[/video]


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## borat (Nov 2, 2012)

Looks like a chainsaw to me. A damned nice one too!


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## stubnail67 (Nov 2, 2012)

166 said:


> [video=youtube_share;S2GyZ5_QVag]http://youtu.be/S2GyZ5_QVag[/video]



hello was that bone stock?any muffler mods or carb adjust?


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## 166 (Nov 3, 2012)

stubnail67 said:


> hello was that bone stock?any muffler mods or carb adjust?



Completly stock, 1st tank of fuel, safety chain (Oregon 91PX), factory carb settings full rich on limiter caps.


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## stubnail67 (Nov 3, 2012)

166 said:


> Completly stock, 1st tank of fuel, safety chain (Oregon 91PX), factory carb settings full rich on limiter caps.



nice... i think a may pop for one soon


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## stubnail67 (Nov 3, 2012)

stubnail67 said:


> nice... i think a may pop for one soon



may get the cs 500 p also....


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## heyduke (Nov 3, 2012)

tolman_paul said:


> I think there are a combination of factors as to why most saws are piston ported. The main factor is packaging. A saw engine needs to be light and compact as well as inexpensive. Since saw engines don't use a tuned pipe, they just don't flow enough air/fuel to where a reed valve induction would be a benefit. The piston port conveniently locates the piston higher on the cylinder which allows the fuel tank to be mounted right under it, or at least in the case of most 50cc and larger saws. A reed valve adds additional expense and doesn't give a performance gain for the hp derived from a saw.



yes, i think you're right. the expansion chamber on a high performance 2stroke uses it's standing wave to force unburned gases back into the exhaust port so there is more fuel/air mixture and a higher combustion pressure. as i recall the parameter for this was brake mean effective pressure, though i may be wrong. by using longer interval port timing one can get even higher pressures. that's probably where the reed valve really does the work since it closes the intake side which would otherwise be open. but... in these racing engines, isn't the reed valve used in combination with a piston ported intake?


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## TimberMcPherson (Nov 4, 2012)

166 said:


> Completly stock, 1st tank of fuel, safety chain (Oregon 91PX), factory carb settings full rich on limiter caps.



Whats the brake on it like to use, better than they 360t?


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## bootboy (Nov 5, 2012)

Ive owned a 360t for about a year and have done a lot of cutting with it. It ALWAYS starts, and it cuts as fast as I need it to while in a tree. I gutted the muffler and had to retune the carb but did notice better performance. Not even kidding, it will start cold in one pull on choke, then I just squeeze the throttle which automatically switches it from choke to run. I like my 360t well enough but my 2 biggest complaints seem to have been addressed with the new 355t. First the chain brake, never liked the single post, it just feels a tad floppy. Second, the width. I felt like the 360 could have been narrowed down, particularly on the flywheel side. I might have to pick one of these new 355t's up. 

The echo bashing continues to baffle me. I own and run stihl and echo saws on a regular basis. At least 2 each. I've run the echo's every bit as hard as my stihls and they are both great products. I have a 600p that is my favorite saw, it has hours and hours of use and zero issues, ever. My pro stihls are without a doubt excellent saws and the fit and finish is second to none, but WAY harder to start and much costlier cc for cc. I've been around saws my whole life but have only been cutting seriously with my own saws for a little over a year. I've never seen a destroyed saw that was anything but a victim of operator ignorance, old age, or bad maintenance, much less "piles" of them.


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## tolman_paul (Nov 5, 2012)

heyduke said:


> yes, i think you're right. the expansion chamber on a high performance 2stroke uses it's standing wave to force unburned gases back into the exhaust port so there is more fuel/air mixture and a higher combustion pressure. as i recall the parameter for this was brake mean effective pressure, though i may be wrong. by using longer interval port timing one can get even higher pressures. that's probably where the reed valve really does the work since it closes the intake side which would otherwise be open. but... in these racing engines, isn't the reed valve used in combination with a piston ported intake?



Piston port reed induction was early in the development of reed valve engines, but to my knowledge hasn't been used in decades on a high performance engine. Modern reed valves are typically referred to as case reed, where the intake dumps into the crank case. There may be some port coverage from the piston, but they'll be auxiliary ports to side to provide fuel mix flow to the transfer ports.

Here's a TM 125cc skifter kart engine ~45 hp. Basically a straight dump into the crankcase







Here's a skidoo 800cc rotax twin ~120hp stock, ~150 with some porting and head work. The center port is blocked by the piston at the bottom of it's travel but the side ports provide plenty of flow to the transfers, and the center port is just feeding the boost port when the piston blocking the center port.


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## OntheLevel (Nov 5, 2012)

*Forget the Haters.*

One thing not to forget is that some on AS are *highly invested* in a particular type of saw/brand.



or their brother in law or whatever sells a particular type of saw. Who cares what one dork says. :msp_smile:

I have a good friend who loves his little echo's. Said he tried to kill them but they just keep on goin. :msp_smile:


Adam


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## bootboy (Nov 6, 2012)

Talked to my local echo dealer. He's cut me a good deal a couple times and said he can get me out the door, tax included for $400 even. Soooooo tempting. Maybe I'll sell my 360t and snag one of these little rippers. I can't justify it unless I sell the 360 though. Life is full of tough choices...


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## borat (Nov 6, 2012)

tolman_paul said:


> Piston port reed induction was early in the development of reed valve engines, but to my knowledge hasn't been used in decades on a high performance engine. Modern reed valves are typically referred to as case reed, where the intake dumps into the crank case. There may be some port coverage from the piston, but they'll be auxiliary ports to side to provide fuel mix flow to the transfer ports.
> 
> Here's a TM 125cc skifter kart engine ~45 hp. Basically a straight dump into the crankcase
> 
> ...



I could be wrong but, to me, it looks like both of those engines use reeds. Those big holes into the crankcase are there to insert the reed valve assembly. Maybe I'm misunderstaning your point.


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## heyduke (Nov 6, 2012)

tolman_paul said:


> Piston port reed induction was early in the development of reed valve engines, but to my knowledge hasn't been used in decades on a high performance engine. Modern reed valves are typically referred to as case reed, where the intake dumps into the crank case. There may be some port coverage from the piston, but they'll be auxiliary ports to side to provide fuel mix flow to the transfer ports.
> 
> Here's a TM 125cc skifter kart engine ~45 hp. Basically a straight dump into the crankcase
> 
> ...



thanks for the great pictures. the box between the actual port and the carb mounting flange interests me. it's sort of a plenum. perhaps it serves to detune the intake.

i did some checking around and found the parilla cart engine. it has the carb bolted on the crank case, definitely not piston ported. looks like a grown up echo 3400! 

the epa being what it is we'll probably be climbing trees with electric saws or leaning out of buckets with hydraulics very soon. never mind that if you combined all the two stroke saws running for one day in the entire country, it would be insignificant to a single boeing 757 taking off from your local airport...


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## tallguys (Nov 6, 2012)

heyduke said:


> the epa being what it is we'll probably be climbing trees with electric saws or leaning out of buckets with hydraulics very soon. never mind that *if you combined all the two stroke saws running for one day in the entire country, it would be insignificant to a single boeing 757 taking off from your local airport*...



And there is the rub. Instead of our governments cleaning up their own act with for instance, just cleaning up all the buses in use in our cities, they find it more prudent to go after the *** industry which generates what, 0.2% or so of pollution? 

I'm all for doing our part for the environment but seriously, lets at the very least look at a what makes sense first instead of knee-jerk reactions.


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## borat (Nov 6, 2012)

tallguys said:


> And there is the rub. Instead of our governments cleaning up their own act with for instance, just cleaning up all the buses in use in our cities, they find it more prudent to go after the *** industry which generates what, 0.2% or so of pollution?
> 
> I'm all for doing our part for the environment but seriously, lets at the very least look at a what makes sense first instead of knee-jerk reactions.



I fully agree. 

Cancel a couple naval war games exercises or a few unnecessary FA18 cross country joy rides and the fuel saved will likely compensate for all of the two cycle *** used in Canada in a year. Coming down on two cycle *** is an exercise in "green" window dressing. Nothing more.


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## tolman_paul (Nov 6, 2012)

The box as you refer to is where the reed blocks mount, it is not a plenum and does not detune the engine.






The question I was answering was in reference to a piston port reed engine, which is a piston ported engine that has a reed valve added. The engines I showed are reed valve induction, they will not run without the reed valve.


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## pgg (Nov 7, 2012)

there's way too many threads with the word echo in them, shouldn't be tolerated, numbskulls like this onthelevel monkey probably voted for loser romney btw. all the creeps here getting shirty about their junk red jappo chainsaws would have too, clueless as ever


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## OntheLevel (Nov 7, 2012)

pgg said:


> there's way too many threads with the word echo in them, shouldn't be tolerated, numbskulls like this onthelevel monkey probably voted for loser romney btw. all the creeps here getting shirty about their junk red jappo chainsaws would have too, clueless as ever



Seriously are you the only Stihl dealer in NZ? I've only run into one jerk on this website. You are he. PPG. It appears you are the 

only one who nobody cares about their opinion. From now on I will ignore this **********. Oh yeah. I am gonna buy an echo too.

Adam


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## mweba (Nov 7, 2012)

pgg said:


> there's way too many threads with the word echo in them, shouldn't be tolerated, numbskulls like this onthelevel monkey probably voted for loser romney btw. all the creeps here getting shirty about their junk red jappo chainsaws would have too, clueless as ever


 
Hmmm Ill informed and racist? I suppose Toyota and Nissan make "Jappo" junk as well?


Funny for the number of echo products sold, you don't see many threads on them. Working on this stuff day in and out, echo is one of the least visited piece of equipment in my shop or any other shop I visit for that matter. It is not uncommon to hear stories from unsatisfied Husky 455 or Stihl MS390 owners on a weekly basis. Funny I can't remember the last Echo that showed up with an owner stating it was junk from day one.

Anywho, some related Shinny reed valve "junk" for the thread.

[video=youtube_share;nz6Ud84A03o]http://youtu.be/nz6Ud84A03o[/video]


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## mweba (Nov 7, 2012)

Looks like junk to me....

[video=youtube_share;_7zCzjuxp_g]http://youtu.be/_7zCzjuxp_g[/video]


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## mweba (Nov 7, 2012)

And...

[video=youtube_share;7uc8Lc3aDaE]http://youtu.be/7uc8Lc3aDaE[/video]


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## OntheLevel (Nov 7, 2012)

Mitch,

Are those saws stock or modded?. I remember hearing how some little echo's respond really well to porting. 

Adam


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## mweba (Nov 7, 2012)

OntheLevel said:


> Mitch,
> 
> Are those saws stock or modded?. I remember hearing how some little echo's respond really well to porting.
> 
> Adam



Saws by Mastermind and Brad Snelling. The Shinny is stock lol.

Even a fly by hack can make an Echo quick :confused2:

[video=youtube_share;X3f40udsapI]http://youtu.be/X3f40udsapI[/video]


Build quality on the current Echo/Shinny line is on par with the big three IMHO


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## borat (Nov 7, 2012)

pgg said:


> there's way too many threads with the word echo in them, shouldn't be tolerated, numbskulls like this onthelevel monkey probably voted for loser romney btw. all the creeps here getting shirty about their junk red jappo chainsaws would have too, clueless as ever



Come on guys.....

Can't you see that he's got a different sense of humour? Don't forget where he lives. Things are, well,...... different there. A country with more sheep than people has it's draw backs. After all, it's hard to hone his comedian's skills when he's doing stand up for the flock. 

Just imagine...... 

PPG is dazzling the herd with a routine he's been polishing for months. He lays down an awesome punch line, fakes a drum roll and cymbals, waits for the sheep to start rolling in the field and all he sees and hears is the same old: baaaah, baaaah, baaaah. 

So, bewildered, he stands there on his stump that he hewed with a borrowed Echo (his Stihl wouldn't start), wondering, as usual, was that a ha-ha baaa, or a booo baaa? Sheep are a tough crowd. 

So, we have to understand that old PPG is "humourously challenged" and not take what he says seriously.


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## Hddnis (Nov 7, 2012)

pgg said:


> there's way too many threads with the word echo in them, shouldn't be tolerated, numbskulls like this onthelevel monkey probably voted for loser romney btw. all the creeps here getting shirty about their junk red jappo chainsaws would have too, clueless as ever





The way I understand this is that Echo's are ppg's hot ex-girlfriend that he can't get over. She is fine with him, likes him even, but he has guilt. Someday he'll miss Echo so much he swallows his pride and they'll get back together. To bed with the both of them for a little hot make up lovin'. If the hut is rockin' don't come knockin'




Mr. HE


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## timmcat (Nov 7, 2012)

Back to the original subject matter, the CS-355T. I just got a demo from our Echo rep to put a few tanks through over the weekend and break it in. I started it in the shop and the sound from the muffler was very crisp and it revved very quickly. Only time will tell but if its as good as a 600P or 500P then they are definetly on the right track. If only we could get a 65 or 70cc saw in the 600P chassis, then we'd be rockin.


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## millbilly (Nov 7, 2012)

mweba said:


> And...
> 
> Just think, if you dropped those rakers a hair it would cut way fast.


----------



## rmotoman (Nov 7, 2012)

millbilly said:


> mweba said:
> 
> 
> > And...
> ...


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## timmcat (Nov 11, 2012)

I've managed to put 6 tanks of mix through the 355t this weekend, and it is above and beyond what I was expecting from the spec sheet. It revs fast, its comfortable in the hand, the exhaust note is awesome, and it has as much if not more power than a cs-400. I cut everything from white oak to alder, nothing bigger than 10" diameter and was impressed with each cut. The factory carb setings are spot on as well, it four strokes with no load and is very crisp in the cut.  I'm going to put a tach to it on Tuesday when I go back to work just to see what it spools up to. If I needed a top handle saw, this would be it.
And I was running it on Red Armor Shindaiwa oil, no smoke or smell whatsoever.


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## mountainlake (Nov 11, 2012)

rmotoman said:


> millbilly said:
> 
> 
> > I was thinking the same thing when I was watching the video. Echo and low rakers just go together.
> ...


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## mountainlake (Nov 11, 2012)

timmcat said:


> I've managed to put 6 tanks of mix through the 355t this weekend, and it is above and beyond what I was expecting from the spec sheet. It revs fast, its comfortable in the hand, the exhaust note is awesome, and it has as much if not more power than a cs-400. I cut everything from white oak to alder, nothing bigger than 10" diameter and was impressed with each cut. The factory carb setings are spot on as well, it four strokes with no load and is very crisp in the cut. I'm going to put a tach to it on Tuesday when I go back to work just to see what it spools up to. If I needed a top handle saw, this would be it.
> And I was running it on Red Armor Shindaiwa oil, no smoke or smell whatsoever.



More power than a stock CS400 or a muff modded CS400? A big difference with a muff modd. I'd guess a 355t would improve a lot with a muff modd also. Steve


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## arathol (Nov 11, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> More power than a stock CS400 or a muff modded CS400? A big difference with a muff modd. I'd guess a 355t would improve a lot with a muff modd also. Steve



I guess the question here would be does it have a converter or is the muffler unrestricted? I've seen some new Echos with mufflers that are not much more than an empty box. 
I just got a new 680. First thing I did was look at the muffler. No cat, not much in the way of restriction in any form for that matter.


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## mountainlake (Nov 11, 2012)

arathol said:


> I guess the question here would be does it have a converter or is the muffler unrestricted? I've seen some new Echos with mufflers that are not much more than an empty box.
> I just got a new 680. First thing I did was look at the muffler. No cat, not much in the way of restriction in any form for that matter.




The CS400 saws come with a cat and make hugh improvements when removed and opened up some, don't know about the 355t.i

I have a couple of CS670 saws that cut real good with a little muff modd and properly tuned, no cats in them. Steve


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## arathol (Nov 11, 2012)

Yes, I have a 370 and a 341, both had cats in them. Opening up the mufflers and pulling the limiters so as to set the carbs right made a big difference.


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## cuttinscott (Nov 11, 2012)

There was No CAT in that 355T Muffler




Scott


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## mountainlake (Nov 11, 2012)

Makes me wonder how echo is getting around the EPA with no cat or strato. 
Maybe that vortex works. Steve


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## timmcat (Nov 11, 2012)

I dont care how they do it as long as they run as good stock as the 355 i've got.


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## ez tree ny (Nov 11, 2012)

*my likes.and dislikes*

I bought the new echo 355t and just pulled the spark arraster I gotta say im really impressed with the power and balence of this saw the only thing I dont are the small fill holes.


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## timmcat (Nov 13, 2012)

I just warmed one up, made a few cuts and put a tach on it, 14,200 on the rich gurgly side. When it went over to the lean side it jumped to 15,150. 

I didn't have anyone to hold the tach in a cut, but its fast and crisp.


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## brokenbudget (Nov 13, 2012)

ez tree ny said:


> I bought the new echo 355t and just pulled the spark arraster I gotta say im really impressed with the power and balence of this saw the only thing I dont are the small fill holes.



thats the only complaint i hear around here about them. all the top handles echo makes are a pain to fill.


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## bootboy (Nov 13, 2012)

brokenbudget said:


> thats the only complaint i hear around here about them. all the top handles echo makes are a pain to fill.



Amen, that's why I fill my 360 out of a smaller fuel bottle instead of my big gas can. Much less sloppy.


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## brokenbudget (Nov 13, 2012)

bootboy said:


> Amen, that's why I fill my 360 out of a smaller fuel bottle instead of my big gas can. Much less sloppy.



i use an old water bottle for the oil and a nitro rc car fuel bottle for the fuel.


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## millbilly (Nov 13, 2012)

bootboy said:


> Amen, that's why I fill my 360 out of a smaller fuel bottle instead of my big gas can. Much less sloppy.



Is that like jumbo shrimp?:jester:


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## ez tree ny (Nov 13, 2012)

*update*

Since I bought it 7days ago ive managed to brake a handle bar and something in the cover broke causing my chain brake to pop on when at.gaull speed the dealer replaced both wasent tp upset but hmmm.. Had.an order for a snowman so I carved with it today to see everything ran ok so...


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## bootboy (Nov 13, 2012)

ez tree ny said:


> Since I bought it 7days ago ive managed to brake a handle bar and something in the cover broke causing my chain brake to pop on when at.gaull speed the dealer replaced both wasent tp upset but hmmm.. Had.an order for a snowman so I carved with it today to see everything ran ok so...



What? A little punctuation goes a long way...

Sounds like you are just hard on equipment. You "managed" to break it?
I'm sure I could "manage" to break a lot of things but I try to be more careful. I've known people who could break anything they touch, sounds like you might be related.


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## ez tree ny (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks for stereo typing me boot boy i ran the same 192t for three years not one broken part theres a certain degree of strain on a saw when someone with experience uses them


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## stubnail67 (Nov 16, 2012)

ez tree ny said:


> Thanks for stereo typing me boot boy i ran the same 192t for three years not one broken part theres a certain degree of strain on a saw when someone with experience uses them



so how is it running now? that you have it fixed.... do you like it better then the 192????


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## Hddnis (Nov 17, 2012)

ez tree ny said:


> Thanks for stereo typing me boot boy i ran the same 192t for three years not one broken part theres a certain degree of strain on a saw when someone with experience uses them





Funny, I've never broken an Echo, but broke a 192 the very first day I ran one. Ring came off the back and down it went, sixty feet of acceleration didn't hurt it one bit. Less than one inch of decceleration at the bottom was a little hard on it, but it still ran.




Mr. HE


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## Arrowhead (Nov 17, 2012)

I'm assuming this is not a clamshell???


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## Eccentric (Nov 17, 2012)

Arrowhead said:


> I'm assuming this is not a clamshell???



Ed this series is a unit-block design ("clamshell"). They're easy to work on however.


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## RandyMac (Nov 17, 2012)

I broke the rear handle off a 701, but I broke lots of stuff.


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## rms61moparman (Nov 17, 2012)

pgg said:


> hey borat don't give up your day job your comedy routine fell flat as a pancake, best you bring out the gimp and stick to your hillbilly tricks. google the vid. You're the gimp. Hidds, echos have never ever been "hot" if you wanna describe echos as girlfriends then you're looking at plain, uninteresting, dowdy, lardy, weak and useless. Good for nothing. And these experts praising and crowing as to how good their new echo 335's are, sorry but just greenhorns, wise-up, *half price saws are half price for a reason*







Yes they are!!!
And that reason is because some of us aren't stupid enough to pay twice as much for a saw just because it has Stihl on the side!


Mike


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## ez tree ny (Nov 29, 2012)

My 355 is holding together good now way more power stock than my modded 192 i really like 355 good power good balence


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## blsnelling (Nov 29, 2012)

rms61moparman said:


> Yes they are!!!
> And that reason is because some of us aren't stupid enough to pay twice as much for a saw just because it has Stihl on the side!
> 
> Mike


There's very little difference in the list price on most pro saws, regardless of brand.


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## Chris J. (Nov 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> There's very little difference in the list price on most pro saws, regardless of brand.



Brad, I can't speak for Mike, but I'm pretty sure that he was referring to the list prices of the CS-355T & the Stihl MS 201 T (and the MS 200 T when a NOS one can be found). I'm guessing (which I admit to, unlike some people posting in this thread :msp_ohmy the price gap is substantial, maybe around a $200.00 difference ($600.00+ for the 201, $400.00 for a 355T).


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## blsnelling (Nov 29, 2012)

That's not a fair comparison. The Echo is built more like the 192 with a clamshell engine. You get what you pay for.


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## Chris J. (Nov 29, 2012)

Chris J. said:


> Brad, I can't speak for Mike, but I'm pretty sure that he was referring to the list prices of the CS-355T & the Stihl MS 201 T (and the MS 200 T when a NOS one can be found). I'm guessing (which I admit to, unlike some people posting in this thread :msp_ohmy the price gap is substantial, maybe around a $200.00 difference ($600.00+ for the 201, $400.00 for a 355T).





blsnelling said:


> That's not a fair comparison. The Echo is built more like the 192 with a clamshell engine. You get what you pay for.




That's certainly a valid point, Brad. I'm following this thread hoping to see some posts about real world/working comparisons between the 355 & 201. Maybe the performance & durability gap between the two isn't as large as some might expect???


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## borat (Nov 29, 2012)

pgg said:


> hey borat don't give up your day job your comedy routine fell flat as a pancake, best you bring out the gimp and stick to your hillbilly tricks. google the vid. You're the gimp. Hidds, echos have never ever been "hot" if you wanna describe echos as girlfriends then you're looking at plain, uninteresting, dowdy, lardy, weak and useless. Good for nothing. And these experts praising and crowing as to how good their new echo 335's are, sorry but just greenhorns, wise-up, half price saws are half price for a reason



Baaaaaahhhhh ---- boo bahhhh.

Grab your Wellingtons, get out the knee pads, and find your favourite fluffy date.....


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## mountainlake (Nov 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> That's not a fair comparison. The Echo is built more like the 192 with a clamshell engine. You get what you pay for.



With Stihl you are paying for the NAME . It might be a clamshell (why the dislike for a clamshell is beyond me) but you can bet it has high quality parts and built twice as good as a 192t plus way more power with the closed port motor. The 192t is a top handle ms170. I'm another one that won't spend way more money cuz it says Stihl on it, if I get a pro Stihl cheap fine. Steve


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## XSKIER (Nov 29, 2012)

Isn't the CS355T $419 and the MS192T $319? I have an MS192T and do enjoy it in softwood less than four inches DBH. I bought it as a cheaper alternative to a battery powered saw for knocking brush down to fit in a loader bucket. Is the CS355T really 33% better than the MS192T as the pricing should indicate?


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## rms61moparman (Nov 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> There's very little difference in the list price on most pro saws, regardless of brand.





I guess that depends on what one considers a "pro" saw in this instance.
My tree guy uses a 3410 as HIS pro saw and it retails for a couple hundred less than the Stihl.
I've seen a couple of really nice Echos and they are considerably cheaper also.


Mike


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## borat (Nov 29, 2012)

The old line of "You get what you pay for." Can only carry additional cost so far. A lot of what is spent on a high end brand anything is paying for the name. 

For instance, Sony TVs were the cat's a$$ for decades. With the arrival of other premium quality TVs such as Samsung for instance, costing hundreds less, Sony's premium price was for the name only. Especially today when there are numerous brands of TVs available that easily outclass equivalently priced Sonys. That rule can be applied to many products including chainsaws. You can rest assured that a good piece of Stihl's profit margin is paying for the brand. 

Accordingly, Echo, which sells for less, isn't necessarily an inferior product. Chances are, that many of their smaller models are right on par with anything out there and even better than some. Echo hasn't developed the brand following mass of the other major chainsaw manufacturers. Hence, they cannot grind much out of consumers just for brand recognition.


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## blsnelling (Nov 29, 2012)

borat said:


> The old line of "You get what you pay for." Can only carry additional cost so far. A lot of what is spent on a high end brand anything is paying for the name.
> 
> For instance, Sony TVs were the cat's a$$ for decades. With the arrival of other premium quality TVs such as Samsung for instance, costing hundreds less, Sony's premium price was for the name only. Especially today when there are numerous brands of TVs available that easily outclass equivalently priced Sonys. That rule can be applied to many products including chainsaws. You can rest assured that a good piece of Stihl's profit margin is paying for the brand.
> 
> Accordingly, Echo, which sells for less, isn't necessarily an inferior product. Chances are, that many of their smaller models are right on par with anything out there and even better than some. Echo hasn't developed the brand following mass of the other major chainsaw manufacturers. Hence, they cannot grind much out of consumers just for brand recognition.




Yes, part of it is name, but Echo saws are not made with the same quality as Stihl, Husky, and Dolmar pro saws. If they were, their prices would reflect it. Now don't read more into this than I said. No doubt, they make some good saws.

What Echo models are you referring to that are equal or better than anything out there?


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## mountainlake (Nov 29, 2012)

How much quality does a MS170 have? Steve


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## borat (Nov 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Yes, part of it is name, but Echo saws are not made with the same quality as Stihl, Husky, and Dolmar pro saws. If they were, their prices would reflect it. Now don't read more into this than I said. No doubt, they make some good saws.
> 
> What Echo models are you referring to that are equal or better than anything out there?



If Echo saws aren't as well built as other top brand saws, how do so many of them last so long? In addition to that, how much of a difference in cost is there in material alone on purportedly superior saws? Is there enough to substantiate the difference of a couple hundred dollars between equivalent models?

I'm not going to go into model for model, brand for brand comparisons. I read post by numerous participants who have nothing but praise for Echo saws, primarily the smaller saws. I've used small Stihl saws and think they're fine saws. However, not so much that I'd pay a steep premium over an equivalent Echo. I know I'm extremely pleased with my CS346. 

In reality, you don't always get what you pay for.


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## blsnelling (Nov 29, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> How much quality does a MS170 have? Steve



Not much!


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## Hddnis (Nov 29, 2012)

I seem to remember someone once doing a thread on a quality little Ryobi that could be had for cheap...



Mr. HE


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## blsnelling (Nov 29, 2012)

That would be the Ryobi version of the Redmax G400. They have a very plasticy cheap exterior, but an engine that's far better than most of the competition.


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## brokenbudget (Nov 30, 2012)

pgg said:


> Here ya go, another name-calling wimperer called hdbill surfaces on an echo thread. boo hoo did precious think he was at a party? Awwww... but it all got spoiled for him.. sob sob sob. go wipe your tears and change your panties ya sniveler



talk about the pot calling the kettle black:msp_sleep:


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## bootboy (Nov 30, 2012)

Used a 335t today. My honest opinion: it's 2wice the saw that the 360 is. It revs lightning fast, Balances well, is very comfortable and feels well built. It cuts very quickly and has a much broader power band than the 360. It sounds fantastic, not whiny like my 360. I like my 360 well enough and it has been a stellar little saw but the 355 offers a whole different experience. I'm likely going to buy one in the near future as I have excellent dealer support 10 minutes from my house. 

Ps. My local stihl dealer actually has a 200t sitting on their shelf. $629. Id love to own one for sure, but for that price, I'm not particularly interested. May be the last one out there. Let me know if anyone wants to buy it. Maybe we can work something out to get it to you.


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## borat (Nov 30, 2012)

$629.00????

Don't think so. That's about two hern more than it should be. That's got to be $200.00 of pure brand name mark up.


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## tmessenger (Nov 30, 2012)

Their "soul" purpose in life is to be redundant ? 



hdbill said:


> Sure seemed like a good imformative thread about a interesting saw, was good reading except for 1 anus kept stinking up the party. Why do haters keep going on and on when others dont care what they hate ??????


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## blsnelling (Nov 30, 2012)

I bought several 200Ts from my dealer for $529.00.


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## bootboy (Dec 1, 2012)

borat said:


> $629.00????
> 
> Don't think so. That's about two hern more than it should be. That's got to be $200.00 of pure brand name mark up.



Dead serious, saw it last week. The price tag maybe the reason it hasn't sold yet. After a huge windstorm exactly a year ago, the shop sold over 60 saws in 3 days. I went down to get a few loops of chain during the cleanup and the shelves were completely empty with 2 exceptions, The only 2 that did not sell we're a 660 and a 200t. They sold multiples of everything else. They sold more in 2 days than they had all year. That 200t sits there to this day.


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## millbilly (Dec 1, 2012)

bootboy said:


> Dead serious, saw it last week. The price tag maybe the reason it hasn't sold yet. After a huge windstorm exactly a year ago, the shop sold over 60 saws in 3 days. I went down to get a few loops of chain during the cleanup and the shelves were completely empty with 2 exceptions, The only 2 that did not sell we're a 660 and a 200t. They sold multiples of everything else. They sold more in 2 days than they had all year. That 200t sits there to this day.



If you can still get it I will give you $750 plus shipping. How many can you get. PM me


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## MCW (Dec 1, 2012)

Interesting little saw. A lot of the local fruit tree pruning contractors have gone to Echos from Stihls and have been relatively happy. However these guys have borderline retarded IQ's and the boss did say that when some idiot puts straight fuel through a Stihl *OR* Echo it still dies. Hence he went the cheaper Echos.
The 200T had a lot of things going for it but the main one was throttle response. I compared both 200T's and 201T's I owned and sold the 201T. It balanced the same, probably had better fuel economy than the 200T, had similar speed in the cut, probably better torque than the 200T in the bigger stuff, but had a slow throttle response.
Throttle response is a key factor with a top handle when making fast cuts on small branches - speed in the cut doesn't mean anything if it takes three times longer to get up to speed PRIOR to dropping it in the cut. The videos here so far make me think that the 355 is a similar slug off the throttle to a stock 201T.
Throttle response is the key reason why arborists are disliking the 201T's compared to the 200T's although I'm aware that a few mods like Brad has done changes the saw completely.
Anybody ran both a 355 and 200T side by side? I know claims were made earlier that the 355 has more HP etc than a 200T but I doubt it.
I'm not an Echo hater but if anybody can say from experience that these things will match a 200T I'll order one but if they can only match a 201T they can stay there.

I think the 200T will be the king for a while yet and for a pro user doing paid work USD$629 for a new 200T is a bargain. In Australia the cheapest 200T pricing I ever heard was equivalent to USD$1380 and they were selling like hotcakes to arborists at that price. The sky is the limit for the best tool of the trade you can buy.

P.S. If anybody knows of any US dealers with 200T's in stock please PM me with a price. I'll make it worth your while


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## Green Monster (Dec 5, 2012)

*CS-355T vs. Stihl MS200T and MS201T*

The CS-355T is one awesome saw for $449! It is comparable to the 200T and the 201T in power and I feel it is better balanced. The ECHO 355 puts out 2.1 hp and revs at 14,000 rpm. Get your hands on one and give it a try. See for yourself. Anyone who says the Stihls are built better just does not have experience with many ECHO chain saws. That is ECHO's claim to fame. They are tough and they are built to last. The parts are easy to obtain and ECHO's are very easy easy to service. For $170 cheaper than a comparable Stihl unit, the CS-355T is a bargain!


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## MCW (Dec 5, 2012)

Green Monster said:


> The CS-355T is one awesome saw for $449! It is comparable to the 200T and the 201T in power and I feel it is better balanced. The ECHO 355 puts out 2.1 hp and revs at 14,000 rpm. Get your hands on one and give it a try. See for yourself. Anyone who says the Stihls are built better just does not have experience with many ECHO chain saws. That is ECHO's claim to fame. They are tough and they are built to last. The parts are easy to obtain and ECHO's are very easy easy to service. For $170 cheaper than a comparable Stihl unit, the CS-355T is a bargain!



Just curious but you are saying the CS-355T is comparable to both the 200T and 201T in power. Which one is it comparable to as the 201T and 200T are completely different saws once you remove the 200T's spark arrestor with one screw. If it is comparable to a 200T then it will thump a 201T but vice versa it's a different story.
The 355T is certainly good value compared to the equivalent Stihls but if you use the saw to make money even being 5% down on power or speed is false economy. At $100-150 an hour it doesn't take long for the price differential to mean nothing.
In my area the biggest user of professional top handled saws is fruit tree pruning contractors and almond orchard employees. We do not have one single qualified arborist within 110 miles.
I gather you have used both but what are your thoughts on throttle response? I'd like to see both a 355T and 200T side by side. I have no doubt the 355T can match a 201T for throttle response as stock they are a slug but highly doubt they can get close to a 200T with the arrestor screen out. Even ported saws struggle.
Now don't get me wrong I like Echos and in my area have proven to be reliable. I already own 2 x 200T's (one brand new in the cupboard) and have owned a 201T but I have this gut feeling that all biases aside most arborists would run one for a week and go back to their 200T's, just as they have after trialling 201T's.
On another note I am not questioning the Echo's reliability or toughness, I am questioning it's performance against a 200T as that is a big claim to make.


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## Eccentric (Dec 5, 2012)

Majorpayne said:


> Pics?



.......and video with "that horrible squeaky echo sound" of which you speak.

No I'm not part of the "Echo Brigade". I don't own a single Echo. However, I'm as tired of seeing the repeated, insulting, and vague "Echo bashing" rhetoric in your posts as you seem to be of reading *any* positive comments about Echos (or seemingly *any* other saws that aren't *your* personal choice). Why post in threads concerning saws that you despise? What's your contribution to these discussions???opcorn:


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## Cliff R (Dec 5, 2012)

I bought an Echo CS-360T top handle just to find out what he was talking about. Been running the dog living piss out of it now for quite a few years. One job alone we used it to limb over 70 pine trees on an Estate in Deleware Ohio. It has good power for the cc's, dead solid reliable, and still hasn't developed the "death rattle" we were told was common for this model.

I guess that we know how to mix fuel and adjust carburetors here. Pretty likely the Echo "basher" and his beer drinking buddies had one of those pathetically underpowered Echo reed valve top handle saws once, straight gassed it, and continue to bash them decades later.

I also went thru quite a few other Echo saws here, CS-440, CS-510, CS-670, CS-6700 and CS-800. I still have the CS-6700 for my "loaner" saw, and kept the CS-510. The CS-510 is pound for pound by far and above the best of the bunch. The others were/are OK, but not nearly the power to weight ratio and chain speed of the CS-510.

Just some info from a guy with a shop that works on saws and other power equipment, and cuts at least 50 cords of wood a year, but what do I know?.......Cliff


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## stihl sawing (Dec 5, 2012)

Lets try and get along eh, It don't matter what you buy. People are different, That's why we have a choice. I don't want to close the thread, A lot of information here. I have deleted some post and don't want to see any more innapropriate comments.


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## arborealbuffoon (Dec 5, 2012)

Cliff R said:


> I bought an Echo CS-360T top handle just to find out what he was talking about. Been running the dog living piss out of it now for quite a few years. One job alone we used it to limb over 70 pine trees on an Estate in Deleware Ohio. It has good power for the cc's, dead solid reliable, and still hasn't developed the "death rattle" we were told was common for this model.
> 
> I guess that we know how to mix fuel and adjust carburetors here. Pretty likely the Echo "basher" and his beer drinking buddies had one of those pathetically underpowered Echo reed valve top handle saws once, straight gassed it, and continue to bash them decades later.
> 
> ...



I just returned a 192t to a local dealer, which I reluctantly bought about a week ago when my 011avt's both decided not to run in a tree. Took home a nos 360t instead. Real service like that is hard to beat, and I gotta plug this dealer for that. 

I am not a very patient guy when I am climbing and a saw craps out. I understand that climbing puts unique stresses on a saw, but poor designs and no reliability is just unacceptable. And, I really turn purple in the face when some 600 plus dollar saw fails. I gotta say, without trying to stir up some huge AS trainwreck here, that I am finally sick and tired of messing with German saws. They were replaced in my stable years ago for every sized saw except an arborist's top handle. And, yesterday I evicted 'em from _that_ slot in the fleet. Feels good, too.

I am curiously optimistic about this little Echo, and heartened to hear of your positive experience with one.


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## Cliff R (Dec 5, 2012)

I used the CS-360T for quite a few outings to see how it did in stock form. It required carb adjustments right out of the box, WAY too lean and the limiter caps had to be removed to achieve ideal settings. Failure to do this would have "smoked" the P/C in short order, and may be where some of the bad "rap" comes from with this model.

It is a difficult saw to adjust, having a built in rev-limiter, so you have to sneak up on the ideal "H" speed screw setting.

After owning it for a short time, I decided to split the muffler and remove the CAT. BIG wake up call for the saw, improving power and torque at every rpm.

Negatives are that it is a tad "bulky" for a top handle, and the rev-limiter kicks in easily. It gets used couple of times a week, and after several years not one single problem in any area. I suspect those who have had problems, and smoked P/C's, don't have a clue how to correctly adjust a carburetor....FWIW......Cliff


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## MCW (Dec 5, 2012)

Cliff R said:


> I suspect those who have had problems, and smoked P/C's, don't have a clue how to correctly adjust a carburetor....FWIW......Cliff



Or perhaps they simply assumed that the Echo dealer would have set it up properly to start with? If you have to trim H limiters from the factory to tune the saw properly then unfortunately it is actually a problem with the saw, not the user (well actually it's a problem with EPA regs but that's another story...) 
If you have to trim the H tab on a new 360T or 355T and something goes wrong then you will void your warranty - simple as that. This isn't limited to Echo either as I've seen the same issue with US delivered MS261's and MS201T's coming too lean from the factory. Australian delivered saws are set richer and tend to have better performance in my experience (apart from the AT/M-Tronics).


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## Cliff R (Dec 5, 2012)

The saws must meet EPA standards in place at the time of manufacture.

Problem is, that the saws will be delivered to various parts of the Country/World, where fuel quality varies, and DA (Density Altitude) will not be the same as where they were tested. Echo in particular makes sure that the products they market will meet EPA standards. Unfortunately they will experience some P/C failures, mostly at the consumer level, and where they are purchased by folks who don't know a carburetor adjustment screw from a bar stool......FWIW.....Cliff


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## MCW (Dec 5, 2012)

Cliff R said:


> The saws must meet EPA standards in place at the time of manufacture.
> 
> Problem is, that the saws will be delivered to various parts of the Country/World, where fuel quality varies, and DA (Density Altitude) will not be the same as where they were tested. Echo in particular makes sure that the products they market will meet EPA standards. Unfortunately they will experience some P/C failures, mostly at the consumer level, and where they are purchased by folks who don't know a carburetor adjustment screw from a bar stool......FWIW.....Cliff



I understand that Cliff however if you have to modify and bypass the H tab on a factory delivered saw so that you can tune it properly to avoid seizing then the saw does indeed have a problem, EPA or not.
You're correct in saying that most domestic type users can't tune a saw but should they have to? 99% of people would assume a dealer delivered saw would be tuned properly to start with.


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## tallguys (Dec 5, 2012)

MCW said:


> I understand that Cliff however if you have to modify and bypass the H tab on a factory delivered saw so that you can tune it properly to avoid seizing then the saw does indeed have a problem, EPA or not.
> *You're correct in saying that most domestic type users can't tune a saw but should they have to? 99% of people would assume a dealer delivered saw would be tuned properly to start with.*



Precisely. Someone buying a car and driving it off the lot would rightly believe that it's supposed to run as it should.

Since when did being mechanically inclined become a prerequisite to ownership?


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## MCW (Dec 5, 2012)

tallguys said:


> Precisely. Someone buying a car and driving it off the lot would rightly believe that it's supposed to run as it should.



I mean we all know that some new saws are set leaner than ideal for emissions but if it is coming lean enough to seize then we have a major problem.


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## Cliff R (Dec 6, 2012)

I don't own a single saw from any manufacturer that still has it's limiter caps in place. 

All of the Echo saws I've owned, worked on, or tuned were pretty lean, and were begging for more fuel. It may be an assumption on my part that they would smoke the P/C, but I can tell you for certain that they wanted/needed more fuel than the factory setting(s). 

I've seen this more and more with small power equipment in the past 10 years or so. Even my Honda power washer ran poorly until I opened up the main jet .002" with a precision drill bit (no adjustment). 

It just makes sense to tune everything that you own so that it runs the very best that it can, and makes the most power. With two stroke engines, the fuel is also carrying the lubricant to them, so a lean mixture not only allows them to rev too high, EGT's are higher, and less oil to keep them from damaging the P/C........Cliff


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## pgg (Dec 24, 2012)

cracks me up, makes absolutely no sense, people claiming themselves as "pro" users, running crappy echo tophandles instead of the undisputed best saw available in the 020/200T. sigh.. shakes head..

Now the new echo 355 tree saw, no doubt it's part of the annual echo con-job getting foisted onto the gullible and the tyros out there each season. Already there's dreamers claiming the echo 355 as good as the best tophandle saws from stihl and husky. mwaa mwaaha haha ha ha hahah ha, it'll be bulldust and nonsense coming from the clueless, don't underestimate how far away in fairyland the echo crowd can be... 

Wow would I love to run a 355T for a day, I'd give ya the TRUE report don't worry. Without even running it, looking at the same puny stiff gas-lids, plastic plastic plastic everything, nothings changed, it's all just another 360T, all soggy, horrible and tacky. A pseudo digits-on-paper 20% increase in "power" won't save the echos a$$, guarantee it'll have the same rasping coarse engine characteristics as the 360T, with the same crappy trigger response, only with more vibration and an even shlttier sound. Don't waste your money , buy the pro-stihl or husky, the echos are and always will be just back-up junk to the real saws


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## 7sleeper (Dec 24, 2012)

pgg said:


> cracks me up, makes absolutely no sense, people claiming themselves as "pro" users, running crappy echo tophandles instead of the undisputed best saw available in the 020/200T. sigh.. shakes head..
> 
> Now the new echo 355 tree saw, no doubt it's part of the annual echo con-job getting foisted onto the gullible and the tyros out there each season. Already there's dreamers claiming the echo 355 as good as the best tophandle saws from stihl and husky. mwaa mwaaha haha ha ha hahah ha, it'll be bulldust and nonsense coming from the clueless, don't underestimate how far away in fairyland the echo crowd can be...
> 
> Wow would I love to run a 355T for a day, I'd give ya the TRUE report don't worry. Without even running it, looking at the same puny stiff gas-lids, plastic plastic plastic everything, nothings changed, it's all just another 360T, all soggy, horrible and tacky. A pseudo digits-on-paper 20% increase in "power" won't save the echos a$$, guarantee it'll have the same rasping coarse engine characteristics as the 360T, with the same crappy trigger response, only with more vibration and an even shlttier sound. Don't waste your money , buy the pro-stihl or husky, the echos are and always will be just back-up junk to the real saws



How about buying one and giving us TRUE report where you compare it to the TH lines of Stihl, Husqvarna, Dolmar, Efco, etc.! Don't cost alot.

7


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## mountainlake (Dec 24, 2012)

MCW said:


> I mean we all know that some new saws are set leaner than ideal for emissions but if it is coming lean enough to seize then we have a major problem.




The problem is the EPA, the solution is to spend 10 minutes to adjust the carb or make sure a dealer or someone does. Steve


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## MCW (Dec 24, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> The problem is the EPA, the solution is to spend 10 minutes to adjust the carb or make sure a dealer or someone does. Steve



I'm aware of the EPA issues however if there is a H limiting tab that needs removing to richen the saw up for it to run properly the warranty is instantly void - even though I'm sure dealers know the problem they aren't going to remove the limiter simply to make a customer happy as technically it is against the law. I can fully understand why manufacturers have to abide by EPA laws however when new saws come set lean from the factory to the point that they could possibly seize it is actually quite serious. For example our Australian delivered saws are set a lot richer than those destined for the US market so the problem isn't widespread but still a problem nonetheless.
The sooner M-Tronic or AT is available across the range of newer saw models the better.


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## mountainlake (Dec 24, 2012)

Not sure but I think dealers can and should adjust for crapola gas and alitude, if a saw is set up for non ethonal gas it will be lean with ethonal. On Echo saws the caps can be pulled, adjusted right and put back on and no one will know. Steve


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## MCW (Dec 24, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> Not sure but I think dealers can and should adjust for crapola gas and alitude, if a saw is set up for non ethonal gas it will be lean with ethonal. On Echo saws the caps can be pulled, adjusted right and put back on and no one will know. Steve



That's good if Echos can do that. On the 201T the H limiter has to be drilled out


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## Cedar Row (Dec 24, 2012)

Cliff R said:


> I bought an Echo CS-360T top handle just to find out what he was talking about. Been running the dog living piss out of it now for quite a few years. One job alone we used it to limb over 70 pine trees on an Estate in Deleware Ohio. It has good power for the cc's, dead solid reliable, and still hasn't developed the "death rattle" we were told was common for this model.
> 
> I guess that we know how to mix fuel and adjust carburetors here. Pretty likely the Echo "basher" and his beer drinking buddies had one of those pathetically underpowered Echo reed valve top handle saws once, straight gassed it, and continue to bash them decades later.
> 
> ...



My 360t does what I wanted it to do, it cuts well and I find it to be well balanced (I am using a 12" Echo bar and chain on it). I got it for tree work, but I have been using it for firewood to break it in. It will cut dead oak easily without stalling. It has one shortcoming that I would like to ask you about. It is slow to come up to speed from idle, and it seems that the chain is hard to get going, probably because of the hesitation in throttling up. Does your 360 do this? If not it, may be that just a carb adjustment would improve mine.


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## Cedar Row (Dec 24, 2012)

MCW said:


> Or perhaps they simply assumed that the Echo dealer would have set it up properly to start with? If you have to trim H limiters from the factory to tune the saw properly then unfortunately it is actually a problem with the saw, not the user (well actually it's a problem with EPA regs but that's another story...)
> If you have to trim the H tab on a new 360T or 355T and something goes wrong then you will void your warranty - simple as that. This isn't limited to Echo either as I've seen the same issue with US delivered MS261's and MS201T's coming too lean from the factory. Australian delivered saws are set richer and tend to have better performance in my experience (apart from the AT/M-Tronics).



I have mentioned this elsewhere on this site, but again briefly: got a 360t from Baileys in the box, it started but ran poorly, took it to a local Echo dealer, while I watched, he removed the limiters, and adjusted the carb richer, then replaced the limiters. it has run well since, except for the hesitation from idle. Moral of the story: buy from a reliable dealer who will check a saw before selling it. If the dealer makes the adjustment the saw should remain under warranty.


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## Majorpayne (Dec 24, 2012)

Cedar Row said:


> I have mentioned this elsewhere on this site, but again briefly: got a 360t from Baileys in the box, it started but ran poorly, took it to a local Echo dealer, while I watched, he removed the limiters, and adjusted the carb richer, then replaced the limiters. it has run well since, except for the hesitation from idle. Moral of the story: buy from a reliable dealer who will check a saw before selling it. If the dealer makes the adjustment the saw should remain under warranty.



Sounds like your L screw needs adjusted.


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## Cedar Row (Dec 24, 2012)

Majorpayne said:


> Sounds like your L screw needs adjusted.



Think you are right. I'll give it a try.


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## Majorpayne (Dec 24, 2012)

Cedar Row said:


> Think you are right. I'll give it a try.



Let it warm up before you do anything.


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## MCW (Dec 24, 2012)

Cedar Row said:


> I have mentioned this elsewhere on this site, but again briefly: got a 360t from Baileys in the box, it started but ran poorly, took it to a local Echo dealer, while I watched, he removed the limiters, and adjusted the carb richer, then replaced the limiters. it has run well since, except for the hesitation from idle. Moral of the story: buy from a reliable dealer who will check a saw before selling it. If the dealer makes the adjustment the saw should remain under warranty.



That's fine with the Echos but I'm pretty sure if a Stihl dealer drilled out a H limiting pin it would be a different story. As you'd be aware bypassing any EPA gear on a saw is illegal so I suppose it depends on just how far your dealer is willing to push it.


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## bootboy (Dec 24, 2012)

Any updates from owners of this saw? 
More videos?

Patiently waiting


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## Cliff R (Dec 24, 2012)

+2 on removing the limiter caps and fine tuning the mixture screws. This becomes mandatory these days with just about everything. Fuel quality varies, as does DA (Density Altitude) for various parts of the country. I even had to remove the carburetor from my Honda powered power washer and drill the fixed main jet out by .002" to get it to run correctly. It was WAY too lean right out of the box, had to choke it till fully warmed up, and even then it "hunted" on the governor at no load. Adding some fuel cleaned it right up, just like it does with two stroke power equipment.....Cliff


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## expy (Dec 24, 2012)

So what happens when you return a Echo saw that has seized due to a lean condition (with the mixture screws set all the way to factory rich without tampering with the limiters)? I would guess your experience would differ from dealer to dealer. I have a good local Echo dealer and have thought of trying one of their top handle saws. I own a Echo HCA -266, one of their high dollar hedge trimmers and it runs extremely well with high quality construction. This little Echo engine doesn't seem to be as EPA restricted as my small Husqvarna power heads. As if anybody cares but I may start to sort my equipment purchases like this - Professional Chainsaws = Husqvarna, Small power head equipment like line trimmers, hedge trimmers etc...= Echo, Construction equipment like a Cutoff machine (TS 500i) = Stihl. That's the thing about landscape construction, you need it all and will never have enough. Sorry for going all off topic but hey it's Christmas and I felt like giving.:msp_biggrin:


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## borat (Dec 24, 2012)

I had a problem with an old Tecumseh engine that was hard as hell to start and was running lean. I pulled the main jet/float bowl nut and filed out the jet holes with a cutting torch tip cleaner. Much easier to start after that and ran just fine. I suspect over the years, the holes had gummed up and needed to be reamed to get them back to original size.


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## mountainlake (Dec 25, 2012)

Cedar Row said:


> My 360t does what I wanted it to do, it cuts well and I find it to be well balanced (I am using a 12" Echo bar and chain on it). I got it for tree work, but I have been using it for firewood to break it in. It will cut dead oak easily without stalling. It has one shortcoming that I would like to ask you about. It is slow to come up to speed from idle, and it seems that the chain is hard to get going, probably because of the hesitation in throttling up. Does your 360 do this? If not it, may be that just a carb adjustment would improve mine.



Try opening the low adjuster about 1/4 turn, you may need to speed up the idle after that. Steve


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## Cedar Row (Dec 25, 2012)

mountainlake said:


> Try opening the low adjuster about 1/4 turn, you may need to speed up the idle after that. Steve



Thanks, mountainlake. I'll do it!


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## Cliff R (Dec 25, 2012)

My CS-360T was really lean across the entire load/speed range right out of the box. It was not within the range of the mixture screws with the limiter caps still in place to get it tuned.

The rev-limiter also fools the tuner when setting the "H" speed screw, as it mimics "four stroking" at full throttle/no load.

Even before I muffler modded the CS-360T, it ran quite well once the limiter caps were removed and I gave it some fuel.

It's no different that setting any other carburetor on a 2 stroke engine, except it has a rev limiter that kicks in at high rpm's no-load. Set the "L" speed screw first, for highest idle, then go slightly rich till you just here a change in engine speed. Re-set the idle speed.

Set the "H" speed screw pretty rich to start with, and start making cuts with it. Start leaning it up and make a cut after each adjustment. There is a very fine line with that saw between going on the rev limiter and the best "H" speed screw setting. You basically have to sneak up on the ideal setting, setting the "H" screw for best power in the cut, er on the rich side, and it will be fine......Cliff


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## Cedar Row (Dec 25, 2012)

Cliff R said:


> My CS-360T was really lean across the entire load/speed range right out of the box. It was not within the range of the mixture screws with the limiter caps still in place to get it tuned.
> 
> The rev-limiter also fools the tuner when setting the "H" speed screw, as it mimics "four stroking" at full throttle/no load.
> 
> ...



Appreciate the information: saw cuts fine, just a little slow in accelerating. I'll play with the adjustments as soon as I get a chance.


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## Cliff R (Dec 25, 2012)

It should be "lightening" fast for accelleration off idle. Add some fuel as Steve mentioned, this will really help. I would also spend some time with the "H" speed screw as well, there is quite a bit of power lurking in that saw from tuning, and even more with a muffler mod.

The CS-360T is a great little top handle saw. As mentioned I've been running mine for years now trying to get it to develope a "death rattle". Instead, it just keeps on running flawlessly, and doing everything that I ask of it. It has great power for the cc's.

Negatives are a tad "bulky" for a top handle. I like the slim lines and compactness of the MS-200 better, but not the price tag that comes with it.......Cliff


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## Cedar Row (Dec 25, 2012)

Cliff R said:


> It should be "lightening" fast for accelleration off idle. Add some fuel as Steve mentioned, this will really help. I would also spend some time with the "H" speed screw as well, there is quite a bit of power lurking in that saw from tuning, and even more with a muffler mod.
> 
> The CS-360T is a great little top handle saw. As mentioned I've been running mine for years now trying to get it to develope a "death rattle". Instead, it just keeps on running flawlessly, and doing everything that I ask of it. It has great power for the cc's.
> 
> Negatives are a tad "bulky" for a top handle. I like the slim lines and compactness of the MS-200 better, but not the price tag that comes with it.......Cliff



Yep, the price was good, and the saw works fine. I don't do a lot of tree work, but I use it a lot for cutting branches on firewood trees. It is perfect for cutting the small branches that I don't want to cut with a big saw. It cuts dead oak with no hesitation. I'm glad I got it!


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## Vibes (Dec 25, 2012)

XSKIER said:


> Isn't the CS355T $419 and the MS192T $319? I have an MS192T and do enjoy it in softwood less than four inches DBH. I bought it as a cheaper alternative to a battery powered saw for knocking brush down to fit in a loader bucket. Is the CS355T really 33% better than the MS192T as the pricing should indicate?



I don't want to sound critical of your decision (your the one who brought up $'s) but I can think of about 20 saws that would be a way better value and flat out smoke a 192/ 170/017. Especially for that kind of money. And especially for ground work and brush throwing.

My saws for just knocking down brush (3 of them) were all bought for the total of $225. 2 were manufacturer refurbs 1 was a yard sale find and was cleaner than the remans. If you add up all the extra chains and closeout bar/chain combos I've fitted them with from Baileys I'm still under that price point. If I put value on my labor tweeking them then You got me beat. But I still got 3 saws. And 2 screnches and a case LOL.


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## cjtreeclimber (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm really considering purchasing this cs 355 t shortly here. I'd like to do the best things for it right out of the box, so I'm open ears you guys! I was curious on how I should just start breaking it in, removing the plastic crap to adjust the carb (to richin it up), and possibly a muffler mod if Its easy enough for me. 

- C.J.


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## cjtreeclimber (Jan 8, 2013)

cjtreeclimber said:


> I'm really considering purchasing this cs 355 t shortly here. I'd like to do the best things for it right out of the box, so I'm open ears you guys! I was curious on how I should just start breaking it in, removing the plastic crap to adjust the carb (to richin it up), and possibly a muffler mod if Its easy enough for me.
> 
> - C.J.



Up-date to this. I just gave my dealer a hundred bucks on the saw today so I'll have to come up with another 300 or so. He said something about taking those plastic things off the H and L temporarily to give a better adjustment after I first brake in the saw. Then of course there is taking the spark-arrestor out and what to do about with the muffler (as far as opening it up or modding) I haven't a clue.


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## 7sleeper (Jan 8, 2013)

That sounds like a very good start! I would run at least a few tanks through it after carb adjust and before MM and make a video of all your steps so that you have a documentation before and after MM. I would run it in that configuration for some time and then you can still descide if you want to spend money for a full blown modification by a sitemodder or not. It will certainly arouse a lot of interest by users here if you go the second route. Usually the modders here do an elaborate picture and video documentation so that all questions and doubts are quenched in a second. 

Good luck!

7


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## bruce6670 (Jan 12, 2013)

Has anyone here actually run a 200T and a 355T ? I'd like to know what the 355T is like. I just read 15 pages of mostly nonsense and still haven't heard if it's up to par.


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## Eccentric (Jan 12, 2013)

bruce6670 said:


> Has anyone here actually run a 200T and a 355T ? I'd like to know what the 355T is like. I just read 15 pages of mostly nonsense and still haven't heard if it's up to par.



Most of us have ran an MS200T and a CS360T. Not many have ran the newer CS355T yet. I haven't.


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## millbilly (Jan 12, 2013)

None of the echo dealers in my area have the 355 yet.


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## bruce6670 (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. Maybe in the near future more people will be running them and we can get a few good reviews.


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## Edge & Engine (Jan 13, 2013)

We had some demo saws out with two Asplundh crews...one crew had 192t's and the other had 200t's. According to them, the 192t is nowhere close in the performance range (which it shouldn't be). The 200T is a closer call, they felt power was very close the same. The overall impression was very positive, with the only negative complaints being the size of the filler caps, and the operation of the on/off/choke switch, which operates in reverse of the Stihl.


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## mountainlake (Jan 13, 2013)

bruce6670 said:


> Has anyone here actually run a 200T and a 355T ? I'd like to know what the 355T is like. I just read 15 pages of mostly nonsense and still haven't heard if it's up to par.



Have too agree, it's about time for a side by side vid with the same new chain. Also both saws broke in. Steve


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## cjtreeclimber (Jan 13, 2013)

Well I'm getting my 355 maybe tomorrow. Have a couple jobs lined up and I think I have the money to pick it up tomorrow morning hopefully or I might have to wait a job or so later. So yeah, I've read all the hype, and I'm for echo, but I hope it cuts like that 200 t that I used when I worked for some other tree service back when. I Used to have a ms 192 t but I sold it when I got my cs 271 t . I'll never sell another saw ever again. the 200 t simply waists any top hand saw I know of so far; however, I've yet to touch that cs 360 t so I don't know. I just hope this cs 355 t can replace the ms 201 t and the 360 t at least!!!!


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## cjtreeclimber (Jan 15, 2013)

I Got it! Its all mine!!!!


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## bootboy (Jan 15, 2013)

Videos must follow.


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## demc570 (Jan 15, 2013)

JUST SAW THE 355 UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AT DEALER EVEN HAD HIMM DO DEMO AGAINT 360,STARTED 360,THEN STARTED THE 355 WHAT A DIFFERENTS IN SOUND,I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE GOOD,THEN HE RAN THE 360 THRU A LOG,AND I COUNT IN MY HEAD ONE THOUSAND ONE TO ONE THOUSAND 40,NEXT THE 355,ONE THOUSAND ONE TO ONE THOUSAND TWEENTY....WOW HALF THE TIME....THERE WAS DIFFERT CHAIN ON EACH,BOTH WERE SHARP,BOTH SAME LENGTH BAR,THE 355 HAD MOR AGRESSIVE CHAIN,BUT WITH THE SOUND AND SPEED,ITS GOTTA BE A WINNER IN MY BOOK,I GETTING ONE SOON AS I CAN.....SOUNDED LIKE IT HAD A MMOD COMPARED TO 360T


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## bootboy (Jan 15, 2013)

demc570 said:


> JUST SAW THE 355 UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL AT DEALER EVEN HAD HIMM DO DEMO AGAINT 360,STARTED 360,THEN STARTED THE 355 WHAT A DIFFERENTS IN SOUND,I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE GOOD,THEN HE RAN THE 360 THRU A LOG,AND I COUNT IN MY HEAD ONE THOUSAND ONE TO ONE THOUSAND 40,NEXT THE 355,ONE THOUSAND ONE TO ONE THOUSAND TWEENTY....WOW HALF THE TIME....THERE WAS DIFFERT CHAIN ON EACH,BOTH WERE SHARP,BOTH SAME LENGTH BAR,THE 355 HAD MOR AGRESSIVE CHAIN,BUT WITH THE SOUND AND SPEED,ITS GOTTA BE A WINNER IN MY BOOK,I GETTING ONE SOON AS I CAN.....SOUNDED LIKE IT HAD A MMOD COMPARED TO 360T



No need to yell.


----------



## demc570 (Jan 15, 2013)

bootboy said:


> No need to yell.



lol....sorry but i want one!! no i want 2....lol:msp_biggrin:


----------



## VINIFIREWOOD (Jan 15, 2013)

*355 modded*

So if I bought one of these, which one of the mod guys here wants a crack at it to see what its really made of?


----------



## bootboy (Jan 16, 2013)

demc570 said:


> lol....sorry but i want one!! no i want 2....lol:msp_biggrin:



Understandable, I think I'd like one as well. Maybe I'll off my 360 and cough up a little extra cash.


----------



## MCW (Jan 16, 2013)

VINIFIREWOOD said:


> So if I bought one of these, which one of the mod guys here wants a crack at it to see what its really made of?



If it has to be modded then it ain't no 200T


----------



## mountainlake (Jan 16, 2013)

Nothing wrong with modding any saw. I still want to see a stock to stock, and a muff modd to muff modd vid. Don't think I've ever seen a 200t vid vs any saw. Steve


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## VINIFIREWOOD (Jan 16, 2013)

mountainlake said:


> Nothing wrong with modding any saw. I still want to see a stock to stock, and a muff modd to muff modd vid. Don't think I've ever seen a 200t vid vs any saw. Steve



+2 Steve

With some posts on here stating impressions being near 200T performance, a side by side vid needs to be done. And you have to wonder how much time is on these saws, are they even broke in yet.

Good luck to Mastermind with his 355T project. Hopefully he has a 200T available to run next to it for some before and after comparisons.


----------



## demc570 (Jan 16, 2013)

did i say i want one already??...lol......its still stuck in my head,dang salesman,let me convince him to show me the 360 and 355 side by side---(should be illegal.........................,i dont need it,cant afford it.....but:bang:


----------



## rms61moparman (Jan 16, 2013)

demc570 said:


> did i say i want one already??...lol......its still stuck in my head,dang salesman,let me convince him to show me the 360 and 355 side by side---(should be illegal.........................,i dont need it,cant afford it.....but:bang:




Heck!

Just go on and do it already!
You know you are going to, why torture yourself???


Mike


----------



## demc570 (Jan 16, 2013)

[/SIZE]


rms61moparman said:


> Heck!
> 
> Just go on and do it already!
> You know you are going to, why torture yourself???
> ...



lol....stop that:msp_w00t:


----------



## rms61moparman (Jan 16, 2013)

Hey, it's alright if you have a minor testosterone shortage and can't muster up the moxie to just pull the trigger.
We can't all be manly men and just say.................."I'll take 'er" fuel it up and set the tune!
You might just ask your wife if it's okay.:hmm3grin2orange:
She'll probably let you have it if you ask real nice.


Mike


----------



## demc570 (Jan 16, 2013)

rms61moparman said:


> Hey, it's alright if you have a minor testosterone shortage and can't muster up the moxie to just pull the trigger.
> We can't all be manly men and just say.................."I'll take 'er" fuel it up and set the tune!
> You might just ask your wife if it's okay.:hmm3grin2orange:
> She'll probably let you have it if you ask real nice.
> ...



i working on that!:msp_wink:


----------



## MCW (Jan 17, 2013)

mountainlake said:


> Nothing wrong with modding any saw. I still want to see a stock to stock, and a muff modd to muff modd vid. Don't think I've ever seen a 200t vid vs any saw. Steve



I started a thread a while ago comparing a brand new 200T vs a brand new 201T. There was a video on there comparing the two.


----------



## mountainlake (Jan 17, 2013)

How about a vid against Husky and Dolmar also.. Steve


----------



## Jeepin' (Jan 28, 2013)

Interesting. Videos Please!


----------



## indiansprings (Jan 28, 2013)

Took a 355 apart last Tuesday, nice little platform, it will be interesting to see how the modders deal with the plastic/nylon crank stuffers and the limited coil. Stihl will be sending a bullentin out to turn the low screw out 1 5/8 turns in side by side test they now have the 201T's outperforming the 200T's in the same piece of wood. All they showed during the whole Echo/Shinny update from 8am-4pm was the 355 and a new Shinny hedge trimmer , most of the conversation was how they are shutting down most of the Shinny operation leaving it's foundry up and running but shipping most pieces to ILL for assemby, all their plastic will be made in the future in ILL, they talked how they are leading the fight for more stringent emmissions and noise control. When we asked about all the units on ebay that are being sold under dealer cost new in the box, the answer was that most are stolen out the back doors at Home Depot by employees, every dealer in attendance questioned them how it is happening and they had no answer, one dealer has already had a Orschelon manager ( a small 25-30) store farm chain now carryiny Echo's send a customer in with a saw and told the customer to just to demand a new saw from the dealer. The dealer told the customer to leave the store and take it back to were he bought it as he would not work on any saw not bought at a dealership, not a Orschelon or HD, their was no public response from the corporate reps. In a couple years I'll bet the Shinny brand will be gone. It is nice they edm cut their ports in their cylinders, don't know that I like their new ring pofile. It is very evident they are focused on the big boxes and smaller saws, the tech even mentioned most of the R&D is going into the smaller platforms as they feel that is were they can compete the best. The seminar leader was from California, I couldn't belive all the references to tightening up the emmission regs and noise regs even more and that the rest of the country should follow California's example, even bragged about Echo turning in Husky for some kind of improper use of EPA credits. Of all the brands we represent and seminars updates we have to go to it was the poorest meeting we have went to. Echo is a good brand, they could be so much more if they would just focus on and listen to their dealer base.


----------



## MCW (Jan 29, 2013)

indiansprings said:


> Stihl will be sending a bullentin out to turn the low screw out 1 5/8 turns in side by side test they now have the 201T's outperforming the 200T's in the same piece of wood



Until you pull the spark arrestor out of the 200T 
Out of the box I thought the 200T and 201T were neck and neck.


----------



## pgg (Jan 29, 2013)

Just to put the boot in a little bit more, umpkin2: that 355T echo looks no different than a 350/360T, the fuel caps are nasty stiff sharp-edged warped plastic about the size of a dime, you dread having to re-fill the thing, the ergonomics are atrocious, the resin handle gives an instant feeling you're holding something unpleasant, after weilding a pro husky or stihl the 350T feels like a mushy piece of tripe, they're ####ters those models, just because the 355 has apparently gained a thimblefull of power won't improve them, echos have NEVER had an explosive performance engine, the hyped 355 won't make it even in the ball-park of a 200T


----------



## Majorpayne (Jan 29, 2013)

pgg said:


> Just to put the boot in a little bit more, umpkin2: that 355T echo looks no different than a 350/360T, the fuel caps are nasty stiff sharp-edged warped plastic about the size of a dime, you dread having to re-fill the thing, the ergonomics are atrocious, the resin handle gives an instant feeling you're holding something unpleasant, after weilding a pro husky or stihl the 350T feels like a mushy piece of tripe, they're ####ters those models, just because the 355 has apparently gained a thimblefull of power won't improve them, echos have NEVER had an explosive performance engine, the hyped 355 won't make it even in the ball-park of a 200T



Video? Pics?


----------



## pgg (Jan 29, 2013)

Majorpayne said:


> Video? Pics?



200T V a 350T vid yep got a few taken by phone, why do you wanna see them?


----------



## pgg (Jan 29, 2013)

no reply, stayed tuned then


----------



## Majorpayne (Jan 29, 2013)

pgg said:


> 200T V a 350T vid yep got a few taken by phone, why do you wanna see them?



Show vid of you running a Echo.


----------



## Majorpayne (Jan 29, 2013)

pgg said:


> no reply, stayed tuned then



I want to see a video or pics of you running a Echo chainsaw.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Jan 29, 2013)

pgg said:


> 200T V a 350T vid yep got a few taken by phone, why do you wanna see them?



So you have never even seen or run a 355T?


----------



## millbilly (Jan 29, 2013)

pgg said:


> no reply, stayed tuned then



I would like to see a video, of you running any saw.


----------



## millbilly (Jan 29, 2013)

this is a video of me running an echo Extreme Dropzone v1.0 - YouTube


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## mountainlake (Feb 1, 2013)

Still no vid of a 200t against any saw except a 201t, surely someone can do one. Steve


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 1, 2013)

pgg said:


> no reply, stayed tuned then





millbilly said:


> I would like to see a video, of you running any saw.




:hmm3grin2orange:





Mr. HE


----------



## Gologit (Feb 1, 2013)

millbilly said:


> I would like to see a video, of you running any saw.



Excellent idea.


----------



## Gologit (Feb 1, 2013)

pgg said:


> Just to put the boot in a little bit more, umpkin2: that 355T echo looks no different than a 350/360T, the fuel caps are nasty stiff sharp-edged warped plastic about the size of a dime, you dread having to re-fill the thing, the ergonomics are atrocious, the resin handle gives an instant feeling you're holding something unpleasant, after weilding a pro husky or stihl the 350T feels like a mushy piece of tripe, they're ####ters those models, just because the 355 has apparently gained a thimblefull of power won't improve them, echos have NEVER had an explosive performance engine, the hyped 355 won't make it even in the ball-park of a 200T



Do you ever post anything _positive_, or are all your comments just slams on whatever the topic saw is?

You don't like Echo. We get the point. Enough.


----------



## zogger (Feb 1, 2013)

millbilly said:


> this is a video of me running an echo Extreme Dropzone v1.0 - YouTube



Ha! You have fun doing vids!


----------



## Butterz (Feb 1, 2013)

pgg said:


> no reply, stayed tuned then



I'd like to see you in a video comparing the 355t and 200t before you run your mouth


----------



## Zombiechopper (Feb 1, 2013)

millbilly said:


> I would like to see a video, of you running any saw.



he has posted several vids running a variety of top handles. 

You guys must have short memories. Frick, even a mod on the band wagon. Try searching before commenting Bob.


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 1, 2013)

Zombiechopper said:


> he has posted several vids running a variety of top handles.
> 
> You guys must have short memories. Frick, even a mod on the band wagon. Try searching before commenting Bob.




Not in this thread. 

I've never seen any in other threads either that I remember. 

But, if it's like you say, getting a link posted in this thread should be no problem.

Either way though, it won't change the fact that ppg is a real "thorn" about Echo saws.




Mr. HE


----------



## Butterz (Feb 1, 2013)

I searched the tree care videos section of this forum, and could not find one video by the user pgg


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## Hddnis (Feb 1, 2013)

A quick search on youtube and I think I found ppg running a saw or something and stuff.

ppg - YouTube





Mr. HE


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## Zombiechopper (Feb 1, 2013)

Hddnis said:


> A quick search on youtube and I think I found ppg running a saw or something and stuff.
> 
> ppg - YouTube
> 
> ...



oh frick. That made me laugh. 

I went and checked my youtube account that had saved favourites. A bunch of them are deleted so I guess they are long gonzo. 

He had a good comparison of a 200T, 338xpt and another red topper with a funky handle that came back towards the rear of the saw. 

I dunno. I quit drinking a while ago and now I remember ####. It's weird.


----------



## Itsme7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Id like to see these videos as well... WAITING! :msp_biggrin:


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## pgg (Feb 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Do you ever post anything _positive_, or are all your comments just slams on whatever the topic saw is?
> 
> You don't like Echo. We get the point. Enough.




Enough what? You threatening me ya w#nker? Take a f##king long hike turkey, who TF do you think you are? Keep your own snotty attitude to yourself. When did I ever say a word against ya? You think I give a rats a$$ about some self-important self-righteous prat like you sitting on a forum getting your rocks off doing your little power-trip B.S.? Again, piss off turkey.


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## pgg (Feb 2, 2013)

That's right hi-and-mighty turkey, push your ban button now. Tosser.


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## brokenbudget (Feb 2, 2013)

pgg said:


> That's right hi-and-mighty turkey, push your ban button now. Tosser.



better hurry up with those vids you promised.:msp_rolleyes:


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## pgg (Feb 2, 2013)

brokenbudget said:


> better hurry up with those vids you promised.:msp_rolleyes:



Yeash bro, and while I'm at it, before this jumped-up officious jicklehead gitgoto (wrapped-up in his own little world of self-importance) scurries off to his superiors begging to push his little buttons to ban my a$$, hiddnis you don't know shlt, zomb keep laughing, so many turkeys round here, heads up their own a$$es, I'll zap a vid or two later, zzddssff on u-tube


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## Steve NW WI (Feb 2, 2013)

I asked him nicely the first time. Guess he likes camping.


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## mountainlake (Feb 2, 2013)

It would be too see a honest person beside pgg do a vid, he,d have the chain on the Echo on backwards. Steve


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## knothole (Feb 2, 2013)

Guy needs a valium. Talk about wired.....


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## Hddnis (Feb 2, 2013)

Wow!

I'll stop with that because everything else I can think of to say isn't really very polite or nice.:taped:



Mr. HE


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## 7sleeper (Feb 2, 2013)

opcorn:

clearly someone is having a bad day.

I might be mistaken but can I hear someone in the distance counting backwards.....

Have a nice day guys!

7


----------



## Jed1124 (Feb 2, 2013)

this has been a fun read....BOOOOOONED:msp_biggrin: I could see him going down from half the world away.


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## cjtreeclimber (Feb 2, 2013)

Who was that guy he was a f(*kin D*ck! LOL


----------



## Ax-man (Feb 2, 2013)

I am not a big fan of Echo saws but this new top handle looks real good to me along with a good price. Stihl fumbled the ball when they came out with the 201. It looks like the new Echo will give Stihl a run for their money in trying to get their fair share in the marketplace. It is just a matter of time to see how this will play out.


----------



## cjtreeclimber (Feb 3, 2013)

Ax-man said:


> I am not a big fan of Echo saws but this new top handle looks real good to me along with a good price. Stihl fumbled the ball when they came out with the 201. It looks like the new Echo will give Stihl a run for their money in trying to get their fair share in the marketplace. It is just a matter of time to see how this will play out.



I guess I've been an echo lover ever since are started out on my own with a weed eater several years ago. Haven't been doing tree work a long time but over 3 years; however, I'm highly used by a strong number of sub-contractors and highly inquisitive on saws and and performance for a short time I've been in business. I appreciate being an underdog in the preference of saw choice, and am an against the flow of society kinda guy. a 5 percenter of 95 percent. I work for myself and a lot of Stihl fans hoo-rah over stihl; but don't know how to sharpen their own chains and work for someone else; not to mention laying hands on a cs 530 which by my experience cuts faster than the ms 260, and right around the ms 360. I like any brand that will make me some fat dinner and texas road house or other places to eat like a hard working king. The 200 t is an amazing saw. I'm glad echo has brought me all this way to know the difference.


----------



## mountainlake (Feb 4, 2013)

cjtreeclimber said:


> I guess I've been an echo lover ever since are started out on my own with a weed eater several years ago. Haven't been doing tree work a long time but over 3 years; however, I'm highly used by a strong number of sub-contractors and highly inquisitive on saws and and performance for a short time I've been in business. I appreciate being an underdog in the preference of saw choice, and am an against the flow of society kinda guy. a 5 percenter of 95 percent. I work for myself and a lot of Stihl fans hoo-rah over stihl; but don't know how to sharpen their own chains and work for someone else; not to mention laying hands on a cs 530 which by my experience cuts faster than the ms 260, and right around the ms 360. I like any brand that will make me some fat dinner and texas road house or other places to eat like a hard working king. The 200 t is an amazing saw. I'm glad echo has brought me all this way to know the difference.



You hit the nail on the head (don't know how to sharpen a chain) Steve


----------



## bootboy (Feb 4, 2013)

Less chat, more pics and videos please...


----------



## Butterz (Feb 6, 2013)

Maybe someone here can help me....I am going to be buying the Echo cs 355t in the near future. Can someone tell me if there are different size rims available for this saw? Also, are the rims relatively easy to swap out? I am thinking about getting two different sized bars, and two different rims.

Any input is much appreciated!


----------



## PainAndMurphy (Feb 7, 2013)

*Alsoo have 360T, wish I can test 355T soon!!*

I very much agree - 
If you are patient enough and have a little experience + logic -- you will do a MM, lose the limiters -- break it in rich, after that - tweak it the best you can -- and you can run a 16" B/C on it like a king!! 

By the way: *I live in about 200 Meters BELOW sea level.. all my saws beg for a bit more fuel.. LOL *

Though it does respond sharper, the only thing yet to (and should) be tested on it in order to lose the slight lag that it still has on brisk trigger pulls: TIMING advance!!   

I might just get me a spare used flywheel to do a lil' experiment... mmmmmmm..... [evil mumblings..] LOL!


Jo. 


P.S. 
As a graduate of Practical Sound Engineering college, I should say that even *after* the Muffler-Mod, the 360T is still quieter than ALL of my current top-handled saws, and past top-handle saws. That feature - you cannot take away from it..


----------



## cjtreeclimber (Feb 7, 2013)

bootboy said:


> Less chat, more pics and videos please...




OK . I just had someone record this for me. Experimented with some supposed non ethal gas but This is about as close as you can get to an Echo in the wild so be thankful. 

ECHO CS 355 T. wmv - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0A0pWum8w4
[video=youtube;-0A0pWum8w4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0A0pWum8w4[/video]


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 8, 2013)

Butterz said:


> Maybe someone here can help me....I am going to be buying the Echo cs 355t in the near future. Can someone tell me if there are different size rims available for this saw? Also, are the rims relatively easy to swap out? I am thinking about getting two different sized bars, and two different rims.
> 
> Any input is much appreciated!



The CS-355T doesn't use a rim system. You can only use 3/8" low profile chain.


----------



## Butterz (Feb 17, 2013)

Edge & Engine said:


> The CS-355T doesn't use a rim system. You can only use 3/8" low profile chain.



thanks for letting me know!


----------



## Butterz (Feb 17, 2013)

cjtreeclimber said:


> OK . I just had someone record this for me. Experimented with some supposed non ethal gas but This is about as close as you can get to an Echo in the wild so be thankful.
> 
> ECHO CS 355 T. wmv - YouTube
> ECHO CS 355 T. wmv - YouTube
> [video=youtube;-0A0pWum8w4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0A0pWum8w4[/video]



Hey, thanks for posting this How do you like your 355t so far?


----------



## echoshawn (Feb 18, 2013)

pgg said:


> It's well known you give the echo brigade an inch and they'll try and take a mile every time, and there you go, for the umpteenth time, another vid shows what a bad joke the echo's are, the dude is swinging around like a monkey up to all sorts of nonsense, typical echo owners, what the hell they're actually doing up there is anyone's guess. And what the hell use is a sixteen inch bar on a puny TH echo?
> 
> That echo is slow and gutless, and in that situation dangerous because of it, yet these dudes are actually praising the thing. The mentality of an echo owner is hard to fathom. And that's a greenhorn stunt if ever I've seen one. Damn near getting ribs caved in by a swinging branch.
> 
> Proper saws such as a 12" 200T will blast thru those branches in a blink, there's no swinging and dragging, the branch drops instantly straight downwards, best the echo brigade all take pgg's advice and spend money on a proper saw in the first place, and get those trinket echos out of the picture and back to what they're good for, (the backyard cutting daises and dandelions etc..)



And when the Echo bashers show up, it gets deep fast,

Why do you even come onto these threads? Just to stir $#it????


----------



## Hddnis (Feb 18, 2013)

pgg said:


> It's well known you give the echo brigade an inch and they'll try and take a mile every time, and there you go, for the umpteenth time, another vid shows what a bad joke the echo's are, the dude is swinging around like a monkey up to all sorts of nonsense, typical echo owners, what the hell they're actually doing up there is anyone's guess. And what the hell use is a sixteen inch bar on a puny TH echo?
> 
> That echo is slow and gutless, and in that situation dangerous because of it, yet these dudes are actually praising the thing. The mentality of an echo owner is hard to fathom. And that's a greenhorn stunt if ever I've seen one. Damn near getting ribs caved in by a swinging branch.
> 
> Proper saws such as a 12" 200T will blast thru those branches in a blink, there's no swinging and dragging, the branch drops instantly straight downwards, best the echo brigade all take pgg's advice and spend money on a proper saw in the first place, and get those trinket echos out of the picture and back to what they're good for, (the backyard cutting daises and dandelions etc..)





Where are the videos of you taking down a similar tree with your super chainsaw?

Guess how they did it before chainsaws? Yep, that's right, axes and hand saws, and yet you are foolish enough to believe that it takes some dreamt up wonder saw to get a job done. You live in a world of your own hate a delusion, bolstered by a lack of knowledge and first hand experience.



Mr. HE


----------



## echoshawn (Feb 18, 2013)

Hddnis said:


> Where are the videos of you taking down a similar tree with your super chainsaw?
> 
> Guess how they did it before chainsaws? Yep, that's right, axes and hand saws, and yet you are foolish enough to believe that it takes some dreamt up wonder saw to get a job done. You live in a world of your own hate a delusion, bolstered by a lack of knowledge and first hand experience.
> 
> ...



I'm still waiting for pics of the "piles" of discarded/burned up Echos...


----------



## Treespotter (Feb 18, 2013)

pgg said:


> *Proper saws such as a 12" 200T* will blast thru those branches in a blink, there's no swinging and dragging, the branch drops instantly straight downwards, best the echo brigade all take pgg's advice and spend money on a proper saw in the first place, and get those trinket echos out of the picture and back to what they're good for, (the backyard cutting daises and dandelions etc..)


Ok. I really hope you won't start crying when I bring you the news pgg... 200T's are no more!
200T's are relics from the past! The past as in when Stihl produced saws that you could be proud of owning.
I owned Stihl saws since 1983. Now I only own two worn down 200T's, one 192 and one 201T of that orange/white company. Do you want me to spell out how happy (NOT) I am with the 201? 
All my other saws are replaced by saws that live up to the expectation. Are they Stihl? NO they are not!
Now I am looking for a replacement for those worn down 200's and for the crap 201 and you really suggest I should stick to Stihl? What rock did they lift so you could crawl out into the daylight. Just stick to your old 200's and let the rest of the arb world find out there are better saws than the 201!

O, one more thing. Is it just me that notices that in most if not all video's I see a Echo starts at the first pull. Try that with a new 201!

Just stick to Stihl ppg and keep on dreaming of better days from the past but don't bother us here with your stories about how wonderful the *discontinued* 200's are.


----------



## PainAndMurphy (Feb 18, 2013)

*I'd say..*



echoshawn said:


> And when the Echo bashers show up, it gets deep fast,
> 
> Why do you even come onto these threads? Just to stir $#it????




..it's more like harassing. It's not even just getting old, man.. seems like it's NEVER going to end!!


----------



## stihl sawing (Feb 18, 2013)

Ok guys, His post is deleted and warning sent. I also cleaned up some words in other post. Please don't modify a word so it will half show. Let the censors do it.


----------



## MCW (Feb 18, 2013)

I thought he got permanently banned?

Anyway, when are we going to see one of these new Echos side by side with a 200T? I'd like to see throttle response, torque, and outright performance.
I know the 200T's have been discontinued but they're still the benchmark. I don't think anybody can argue with that.
I'm not an Echo basher by a long shot but I highly doubt a CS-355T can match a 200T. I'd like somebody to prove me wrong though 
Personally I think they'd be more on par with a 201T out of the box. They'll probably respond to mods really well too, just like the 201T.


----------



## stihl sawing (Feb 18, 2013)

MCW said:


> *I thought he got permanently banned?*
> 
> .


A high possibility if he keeps doing it.


----------



## Treespotter (Feb 18, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> Ok guys, His post is deleted and warning sent. I also cleaned up some words in other post. Please don't modify a word so it will half show. Let the censors do it.


Ok sorry. Thanks for the changes. Let's just say those where "in the heat of the moment" words that showed what I meant.
IMHO it isn't necessary to delete posts just because 'we' disagree.


----------



## Treespotter (Feb 18, 2013)

MCW said:


> Anyway, when are we going to see one of these new Echos side by side with a 200T? I'd like to see throttle response, torque, and outright performance.
> I know the 200T's have been discontinued but they're still the benchmark. I don't think anybody can argue with that.


I'd like to see video's like that too, but we have to keep in mind that it's an unfair battle.
Getting a dino to fight a newborn. A dino from the time that emission wasn't a bad word.
Even the 201 can't win that battle from a 200.
I would like to see it compete with saws that too are new on the market. Saws like the 201 and the Husqy 540 (whenever that saw hits the shelves).


----------



## PainAndMurphy (Feb 18, 2013)

*heyy..*



Treespotter said:


> I'd like to see video's like that too, but we have to keep in mind that it's an unfair battle.
> Getting a dino to fight a newborn. A dino from the time that emission wasn't a bad word.
> Even the 201 can't win that battle from a 200.
> I would like to see it compete with saws that too are new on the market. Saws like the 201 and the Husqy 540 (whenever that saw hits the shelves).




remember: 

All of us can agree to compare them in all different statuses , and *stick* to a certain order / phases: 

1) *stock* - out of the box 

2) *carb' limiters removed* 

3) *Muff modded* (cat' removed or opening some restriction found) 

And last, the more intrusive / extreme mods: 

4) Porting 

5) Timing 


Could we all / most of us agree on something that anyone here can follow ? 
Maybe it's time for us here in the forum to maybe even set some standard for mod-talk 
*say?* 

Just a thought.. 

Jo.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 18, 2013)

Treespotter said:


> Ok sorry. Thanks for the changes. Let's just say those where "in the heat of the moment" words that showed what I meant.
> IMHO it isn't necessary to delete posts just because 'we' disagree.


I only deleted his post and a qoute of his post. I agree with you sorta but if left up then more comments would be made and the cycle would go on.


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## tallguys (Feb 18, 2013)

Treespotter said:


> I'd like to see video's like that too, but we have to keep in mind that it's an unfair battle.
> Getting a dino to fight a newborn. A dino from the time that emission wasn't a bad word.
> Even the 201 can't win that battle from a 200.
> I would like to see it compete with saws that too are new on the market. Saws like the 201 and the Husqy 540 (whenever that saw hits the shelves).



I agree. Comparing the new Echo that has to comply with emissions to any saw that doesn't is not an apples to apples comparison.

I'd like to see the new Echo CS-355T vs. the Stihl MS201T vs. the Husqvarna 540. Let it be a level playing field, so to speak.


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## 7sleeper (Feb 18, 2013)

MCW said:


> I thought he got permanently banned?
> 
> Anyway, when are we going to see one of these new Echos side by side with a 200T? I'd like to see throttle response, torque, and outright performance.
> I know the 200T's have been discontinued but they're still the benchmark. I don't think anybody can argue with that.
> ...



I see it exactly like you! 

I also thougth that he was banned some time ago. Oh well if he continues it won't take long.

I doubt any new saw will come close to the 200. It will take some work for all new saws to perform even similar to the 200.



Treespotter said:


> I'd like to see video's like that too, but we have to keep in mind that it's an unfair battle.
> Getting a dino to fight a newborn. A dino from the time that emission wasn't a bad word.
> Even the 201 can't win that battle from a 200.
> I would like to see it compete with saws that too are new on the market. Saws like the 201 and the Husqy 540 (whenever that saw hits the shelves).



An excelent recomondation comparing new to new, but even then equivilant cc should be compared. But I still doubt that echo will win the battle. I believe it will have a respectful third place.

7


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## echoshawn (Feb 18, 2013)

Im not asking for everyone to agree, get along, etc.. but I think there can be respectful disagreement, maybe a little playful needling, but, once again, any thread mentioning Echo has been completely derailed. 
The 200T is the gold standard from the past. Much like other classics from the past, nothing will ever measure up. Stihl and Husky are the remaining legacy brands, and still make some of the best models out on the market. But, they also make some strictly average (at best) products with prices inflated by the nameplate on the side. Echo builds some fine equipment (IMO), at a reasonable price. Its really like a comparison of hand tools between Snap-On/Mac and Craftsman. I use my tools all the time, have been a professional mechanic in the past, and craftsman works fine for me. 
Just my .02 worth..


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## hoeyrd2110 (Feb 18, 2013)

Ah man I missed all the banter:msp_angry:


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## Eccentric (Feb 18, 2013)

hoeyrd2110 said:


> Ah man I missed all the banter:msp_angry:



It wasn't banter. Just more of the same insulting rhetoric that always gets injected into any threads that dare to say something positive about _ANY_ saw that is different than what *certain folks* feel is the best.....


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## MCW (Feb 18, 2013)

Treespotter said:


> I'd like to see video's like that too, but we have to keep in mind that it's an unfair battle.
> Getting a dino to fight a newborn. A dino from the time that emission wasn't a bad word.
> Even the 201 can't win that battle from a 200.
> I would like to see it compete with saws that too are new on the market. Saws like the 201 and the Husqy 540 (whenever that saw hits the shelves).



I agree it's an unfair battle but I believe the comment was made that the CS-355T *WILL* match a 200T?


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## echoshawn (Feb 18, 2013)

MCW said:


> I agree it's an unfair battle but I believe the comment was made that the CS-355T *WILL* match a 200T?



Now I'm gonna have to dig back thru this thread to find that quote. 
I thought it was a 201T, but I won't swear to it.


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## VINIFIREWOOD (Feb 18, 2013)

I believe, if my memory serves me, that the 355 was stated to be equal to the 201 and close to the 200. Maybe worded a little diff but you get the picture.


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## cjtreeclimber (Feb 18, 2013)

Butterz said:


> Hey, thanks for posting this How do you like your 355t so far?



I absolutely love it. I don't have to pull a bigger saw up every time I start working down some of the larger branches. Its sounds good when its running with some good 93 octane from the marathon gas station, and it cuts like it has some balls for sure.


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## Butterz (Feb 18, 2013)

cjtreeclimber said:


> I absolutely love it. I don't have to pull a bigger saw up every time I start working down some of the larger branches. Its sounds good when its running with some good 93 octane from the marathon gas station, and it cuts like it has some balls for sure.



how is the weight / balance on it?


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## MCW (Feb 19, 2013)

echoshawn said:


> Now I'm gonna have to dig back thru this thread to find that quote.
> I thought it was a 201T, but I won't swear to it.





VINIFIREWOOD said:


> I believe, if my memory serves me, that the 355 was stated to be equal to the 201 and close to the 200. Maybe worded a little diff but you get the picture.



Out of the box a 200T will perform basically identically to a 201T - in fact I'd even give the edge to the 201 just on torque alone. Pull the spark arrester out of the 200T though with one screw and the 201T hasn't got a hope. I owned both, compared both, started a thread on it with piccys and videos, and sold the 201T.
I'm pretty sure the comment between the 355 and 200T was made in this thread but could be wrong. If not it was in another AS thread. Big call regardless.


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## VINIFIREWOOD (Feb 19, 2013)

*Another interesting read on this saw*

Link
http://www.arboristsite.com/commercial-tree-care-climbing/210620.htm


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## arborealbuffoon (Feb 19, 2013)

Yesterday, I did some field studies on my New(OS) 360t echo. I gotta say, that little fella didn't even make me swear while up in the tree. That's rare, for any one who's ever watched me climb....

The saw has had limiters removed, been tuned and sharpened, and the muffler is stock (for now). I hate to admit it, but I was favorably impressed by its performance in real world climbing conditions. And, to be fair, it hasn't burned two tanks of gas yet. Has the huge 12 in. bar on it, BTW...

For me, it can be difficult to compliment an "underdog" in the chain saw world. I am a self-admitted saw snob. I am extremely partial to my little gang of old-skewl Swedish saws and would put them up against almost anything out there. They have and continue to cut incredible amounts of wood very quickly.

Gotta say that these top handles seem quite good. And you can get 'em 2 for the price of 1 fancy German climbing saw. I have taken more than a few trees apart with a Steal in my hands, but it probably won't ever happen again. Come and get me you echo haters......


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## MCW (Feb 19, 2013)

Hey good stuff on the Echos. Not sure whether you are a real climbing arborist or not but in all honesty if you were up a tree all day making 1000's of dollars do you think that a few extra bucks for a 200T or modded 201T for example wouldn't be worth it in the long term?
I can fully understand the price difference but I'm not sure it is all that relevant if you're a true professional.


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## arborealbuffoon (Feb 19, 2013)

MCW said:


> Hey good stuff on the Echos. Not sure whether you are a real climbing arborist or not but in all honesty if you were up a tree all day making 1000's of dollars do you think that a few extra bucks for a 200T or modded 201T for example wouldn't be worth it in the long term?
> I can fully understand the price difference but I'm not sure it is all that relevant if you're a true professional.



OK. Guess I am just a poser on the interwebs, not a "true professional". Wow. Whatever there bud....


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## PainAndMurphy (Feb 20, 2013)

*hey guys..*

even climbing and tree-top care in different areas in the state / world VARY from one another in it's nature.. Some need the top-speed screamers , some don't need it since the torque-ish ones just do the job just fine and in a reasonable time. I have BOTH kinds of saws , and whenever one gets clogged / chainthrown / stuck / leak -- I grab the next one with the right bar for the job.. Yes - I don't work with the crane all day -every day- so there's no justification for having only 200T's around , not to mention NEW 200T(rare and HELL expensive) or a new 201T. The used 341 & rebuilt 200T (from broken / garbage saws) and the post-break-in 360T + other rear-handled ones that I have - just do the job. 

it all comes down to : 

*fitting a saw to what you do / need* 

That's it.


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## MCW (Feb 20, 2013)

arborealbuffoon said:


> OK. Guess I am just a poser on the interwebs, not a "true professional". Wow. Whatever there bud....



Firstly I think you've misunderstood me and taken what I've said the wrong way.
If you are a full time climber or tree care guy then I can't see how saving a few dollars on a saw really comes into your purchasing. A couple of hundred dollars saving on a saw that will last a number of years and potentially earn you hundreds of thousands of dollars is the angle I'm coming from. Saw price is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
If you believe a CS-355T can match it with a 200T or modified 201T then all is good as that's your choice - however to use price as a reasoning just doesn't make sense to me on an item so valuable as a part of your trade.
If I was to put it into a forestry sense then do you think a full time logger would buy an MS381 because it is cheaper than an MS441C despite being of a similar capacity and capable of pulling the same bars? I do not climb at all and all of the 200T work I do is at ground level. I have no experience with Echo top handles but do sell a lot of gear into professional arborists in some of Australia's largest cities. They avoid Echo top handles just like they have avoided the 201T. If there was a cheaper top handle on the market that is as good as a 200T they would be all over it but the fact remains that there isn't an out of the box top handle on the market that performs like a 200T. I can't even convince them to buy a MODIFIED 201T despite guarantees they'd like it. Many people on this site get seriously confused between the online world of AS and the actual real world where a lot of people wouldn't even know what Arboristsite is - in the major market away from this site people don't use or want modified saws regardless of what benefits you put forward. One day when people's 200T's finally die and there are no replacement parts then maybe they'll look at a modded 201T or maybe there will be better saws on the market by then - who knows.
On another note I don't actually think Echos are substandard saws. I won't go down the pgg path of outright abuse but I still haven't seen any proof that these 355T's can match a 200T or even a lightly modified 201T. I think at worst the 355T's have a really good fit in the market as a good top handle but for a professional to base their purchasing on a few hundred bucks just doesn't make sense.
Sorry to upset you as that wasn't my intention. My reference to "true professionals" is one that means your entire income is derived from saws. People have called me a professional because I do paid tree work. The term professional doesn't sit easy with me even though I'm qualified in falling and have been paid to drop 1000's and 1000's of trees. My main income is not derived from tree work, I'm actually a qualified horticultural agronomist in my day job. I hope that clears things up


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## Hddnis (Feb 20, 2013)

When climbing actual cutting time is only a fraction of your time in the tree. More time is spent positioning and hauling ropes than anything else. It is not uncommon to take a half hour to rig a limb and then cut it in 90 seconds, only to spend fifteen minutes rigging the next limb and 60 seconds cutting it. Once you get to the point where your time is almost solid cutting, say blocking down a spar, then you want to get a faster saw anyway. At that point there is no sense messing with a top handle, pull out the big guns and, get'er done, and then go home early.

That is in no way saying the Echo saws are slower, just that if they were it may not be as big a difference as some imagine. Starting on the first pull, reving up quick, and pulling strong all make a climbers day go alot easier. 

To bottom line it, I know too many guys making good money with an Echo, Husky, Dolmar, or Stihl 192 in their hands to really believe that the 200 and 201 are the be all end all of climbing saws. Sure I know plenty that swear by those two saws, but they are not even the majority of tree guys I know.


Mr. HE


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## MCW (Feb 20, 2013)

Hddnis said:


> When climbing actual cutting time is only a fraction of your time in the tree. More time is spent positioning and hauling ropes than anything else. It is not uncommon to take a half hour to rig a limb and then cut it in 90 seconds, only to spend fifteen minutes rigging the next limb and 60 seconds cutting it. Once you get to the point where your time is almost solid cutting, say blocking down a spar, then you want to get a faster saw anyway. At that point there is no sense messing with a top handle, pull out the big guns and, get'er done, and then go home early.
> 
> That is in no way saying the Echo saws are slower, just that if they were it may not be as big a difference as some imagine. Starting on the first pull, reving up quick, and pulling strong all make a climbers day go alot easier.
> 
> ...



I certainly agree that actual cut times are a fraction of what an arborist's day is made up of but time is money after all. Interestingly Arborists in Australia seriously rate the 200T despite paying a minimum of USD$1400 for them via Australian Stihl dealers - I do not know one full time Australian arborist who uses any other top handle although I'm sure they're out there. A few have tried the 338XPT (as I have) and outright grunt is good but balance is the main thing people didn't like. Even a mate of mine who owns a 338XPT liked the feel of my 200T over his Husky. This is why I sold so many 200T's when I was importing them from the states. The second the 200T was discontinued in Australia and rumours got out about the 201T I could have sold 50 x 200T's but by then the US market had dried up too. Most of my time spent on 200T's consists of this sort of thing...















Even the 200T's have their limitations...






Different kettle of fish than climbing but the same principles apply. For what it's worth I'm a Husky fan.

EDIT: On a side note one of the main fruit tree pruning contractors in our area is now running the Echo top handles instead of the Stihls. Sadly his reasoning was that the idiots that work for him will kill a $1500 Stihl by not adding oil to the fuel just as quick as they'll kill a $700 Echo. They have had an excellent run out of the Echos too despite single digit IQ's with his workers.


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## Treespotter (Feb 20, 2013)

Mmmm. Not to derail the topic here, but...
It looks like there are some PROFESSIONALS here that think that paying top dollars for a certain brand equals best practice.
Another thing that bothers me is the fact that there are some dudes here that never ever held a certain saw in their hands but by some god gifted miracle are able to dismiss a product. This is probably induced by experiences with previous models.

Please don't.
Experiences from the past are no guarantees for the future.

Buy products based on quality and ease of work. Not based on a brand name and location of a service point.

Let me make a point here.
In the past years I bought quality European cars. Two years ago I bought a Kia Ceed (yes a Kia). This is the very first car that I own that had zero, zilch, no glitches and no downtime in the past 50000 kilometers. Seven years warrantee and about 8000 euros cheaper than the other makes.

Do yourself a favour and think about the product, not the brand!

Verstuurd van mijn GT-S5690 met Tapatalk


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## MCW (Feb 20, 2013)

Treespotter said:


> Let me make a point here.
> In the past years I bought quality European cars. Two years ago I bought a Kia Ceed (yes a Kia). This is the very first car that I own that had zero, zilch, no glitches and no downtime in the past 50000 kilometers. Seven years warrantee and about 8000 euros cheaper than the other makes.



But was the Kia as fast as the Europeans and did it handle as well?
Sorry, had to say it 

By the way my best mate bought a new diesel Kia Sorrento and I'd buy one in a flash with no concerns in the world. Very nice car.


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## mountainlake (Feb 20, 2013)

Still haven't seen a vid Stihl vs anything except another Stihl. Steve


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## Treespotter (Feb 20, 2013)

MCW said:


> But was the Kia as fast as the Europeans and did it handle as well?
> Sorry, had to say it
> 
> By the way my best mate bought a new diesel Kia Sorrento and I'd buy one in a flash with no concerns in the world. Very nice car.



Pssst. To be honest, that South Korean company builds the Ceed in Europe.


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## arborealbuffoon (Feb 20, 2013)

Perhaps a couple of clarifications are in order. I guess that, technically, I do not come even close to climbing full time any more. Learned to use other skills to make money, as the old body just aint what it used to be. However, I continue to make a pretty fair percentage of my income doing tree work. The warmer months obviously see me in the trees much more.

One of the critical criteria for me when deciding to give an Echo a try was dealer support. We have a large stocking dealer here and they are really good guys. If and when parts are needed, they will go out of their way to get me up and running again. To me, the immediate availability of parts locally is more critical than the brand or performance level of any saw.

I also agree that when selecting a tool as critical as a climbing saw, price becomes much less a factor. I own a pile of super-ridiculously-expensive tools that say Snap On. And, yes, they ARE worth it. For me, top handle saws have been my nemesis for years. At one point, when I was still climbing 6 days a week, I swear I would have paid 5000 bucks for a REAL top shelf performer up in the trees.


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## Franny K (Feb 20, 2013)

How many of the jobs the professionals with top handle climbing jobs are bidding someone else is bidding to come in with a crane truck and a basket truck with hydraulic power to the basket?

I can see the outfits that clear for overhead power lines along the roads/highways use gasoline chainsaws on the ground. The tree work in folks yards I see generally they have the crane and basket truck there not sure if or how many of them have hydraulic stuff. The top handle is supposed to be used in a basket or else climbing. 

If someone liked the carb forward case reed more room in the top handle area would they fail in the tree/arborist business?


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## VINIFIREWOOD (Feb 20, 2013)

I see a lot of guys say that they buy the less expensive saws because the guys on the crew have bad habits of dropping them out of trees or straight gassing them or whatever. I understand the logic behind this, i really do.
But
There are many "skilled trades" out there such as mechanics that have to buy their own tools. So why not in the tree industry? Sad but true is the fact that people take care of their own stuff better than they take care of yours.


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## cjtreeclimber (Feb 20, 2013)

I had to put my hands on a 200 t and it was nice. Spins fast; whoever, IMO i am rooting for my cs 355 to kicks its lily ass! I'm not concerned with the 201. The 201 has no place on this forum IMO. its time!

I wish I could be a sthil fan, but unfortunatley I'm not ever going to be one unless they can really prove their products to have fuel caps that don't take five minutes to put on and off, and that don't have air filters that pop off while I'm cutting in the tree, and carbs that I don't have to switch through several adjustments, and of course: less people running around hoo-rahing when my echos simply doing all the work. They all run to this day. Several years into business I ain't seen too many echos that don't simply run. Because echos are the tough stuff that starts on a cold day, that out performs simply because they choose to run and not die half way through a cut. You could beat the hell out of an echo and it will bring you through hell and back. I sold my Sthil back pack blower (yeah it runs sometimes!) and got me an echo too (pb 770). If anything, I'll by a 3120 xp for a logging saw, and not some over rated cream puff that has a particular ring to the name.

here is one close up view (be careful of hazard space) cs 355 with descent gas cutting. you can't get no closer than this in the wild![video=youtube;Vs64Uai6z88]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs64Uai6z88[/video]


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## Ingram306 (Feb 21, 2013)

I have the 355, didn't really want to buy it but I was in a jam at the time and its all they had. I have ZERO complaints about it. It's the only non stihl I own so it sticks out a little but other than that it runs great, and to be honest it sounds pretty cool right out of the box. It was carelessly dropped about 50ft out of a tree and landed perfectly upside down on its top handle which promptly exploded into about 3000 tiny pieces. Got the whole top handle assembly new for about ~$40. Had it back up and running in a few hours. The fuel line routing is a little annoying when pulling the carb but it actually works pretty well.


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## millbilly (Feb 25, 2013)

*Ok i got the video*

Well as you might know Im an echo fan. Pound for pound dollar for dollar I find echos a great deal for there cost. That being said, I hired a contract climber today, who came equiped with his own stihl ms200t. Just what I've been looking for a 200t, to race against my echo 330t. A smaller predecessor to the echo 355t. 

Before I post the video. I would like to take a poll on what you think the actual times were.

These are the parameters.

Wood: dead red oak
wood size: 12" across

Please list: echo 330's time and then the stihl 200's

Only hitch, each saw used the chain that was on it, ( both were sharp ). I didn't really have time to get new chains for each, and all that.

The video is getting edited, so in the mean time, give me your guesstamates on the time you think they cut the wood in.


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## PainAndMurphy (Feb 25, 2013)

*is your 330 set free?*



millbilly said:


> ...........Just what I've been looking for a 200t, to race against my echo 330t. A smaller predecessor to the echo 355t.




Did you remove the carb' limiters? 
Did you lose the Cat'? 
Has it gone through the Break-In period? 


IMO it's just had to be asked. 

Just saying.. 


Jo.


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## millbilly (Feb 25, 2013)

The 330 is almost 7 years old and its straight up stock, well broken in. The chain was on its last sharpening, just nubs and missing a cutter. Like I said it was a spur of the moment thing and not premeditated at all. So granted the race had some variables between the two saws. I don't own a 200t. I do own an 011 I keep around the house for the wife and kids to play with.

He told me his 200t was over 3 years old, and what appeared to be a fairly new chain the video will show the saw and chains.


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## PainAndMurphy (Feb 25, 2013)

*well..*

I'm far from having any grounds or reference to base my guess on, u know? 
Even owning a 360T (that's been broken-in in factory settings plus 10 or so tanks through it after cat' and carb'-limiters removed and re-tuned for 200 meters below-sea-level......and running sweeter than ever) - even that's no reference for me.. 

I could just take a wild guess, for the sport, that it ended in a tide, since I run 200T & 360T everyday.. Although I have both - I never thought to do head to head because they are both set around 14k'ish RPM no-load , and both do a good job.. u know? 

just that one happened to function as a 14" and the other 16" because of the slight bigger bore.. but no actual good reason for that. Just a decision on-the-fly.. 

I cold keep telling more about it, but I doubt it's gonna do any good   

Jo.


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## rms61moparman (Feb 25, 2013)

I'm gonna say 21 seconds for the 200, and 26 for the echo.


Mike


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## hoeyrd2110 (Feb 25, 2013)

in big wood(for the saw class) i would say they would probly be pretty even at around 28-30seconds.


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## REJ2 (Feb 25, 2013)

12 seconds for the stihl, 15 seconds for the echo.


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## mountainlake (Feb 25, 2013)

REJ2 said:


> 12 seconds for the stihl, 15 seconds for the echo.



Sounds good to me with the Echo being 3cc or so less. Steve


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## bootboy (Feb 25, 2013)

How does the working weight (bar, chain, fuel and oil) of the 355 compare with a 200t?


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## millbilly (Feb 25, 2013)

*video echo330t vs stihl200t*

[video=youtube;2XUvRlcxcQU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XUvRlcxcQU[/video]


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## hoeyrd2110 (Feb 25, 2013)

wait a minute i though the 200T was untouchable....it was only 1 second faster than a 330?

i thinks me laughing at the guys spnding $1400 on ebay for them


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## REJ2 (Feb 25, 2013)

Is that wood really 12"?


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## PainAndMurphy (Feb 26, 2013)

*umm..*



REJ2 said:


> Is that wood really 12"?



only if both bars are 16". 


I'd say it was 10", 

say?


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## MCW (Feb 26, 2013)

Good video. It does sound like the 200T still has the spark arrestor in though. One screw and I'm pretty sure it would be a game changer.
I have 2 x 200T's and neither are that quiet so assume it's still got it in. Stock out the box though it's a good video


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## mountainlake (Feb 26, 2013)

MCW said:


> Good video. It does sound like the 200T still has the spark arrestor in though. One screw and I'm pretty sure it would be a game changer.
> I have 2 x 200T's and neither are that quiet so assume it's still got it in. Stock out the box though it's a good video



The Echo is quieter than the 200t so it could use a little muff work also, no matter how you look at it they're close. It's about time we have a vid of the hyped 200t against another saw. Steve


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## mountainlake (Feb 26, 2013)

Nice vid, I have a new in the box 330t from Bailys shipped for $209. I'd sure take 3 of the 330t vs 1 200t. CAD again. Steve


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## PainAndMurphy (Feb 26, 2013)

*I could..*



mountainlake said:


> The Echo is quieter than the 200t so it could use a little muff work also, no matter how you look at it they're close. It's about time we have a vid of the hyped 200t against another saw. Steve




If u guys want, I can run 200T vs. 360T , both no Cat' and no limiters, also both broken in well and screaming.


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## hoeyrd2110 (Feb 26, 2013)

I want to see a stock 355 vs stock 200t. Bone stock. I think it may just turn our thinking on top handles around


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## luckydad (Feb 26, 2013)

hoeyrd2110 said:


> I want to see a stock 355 vs stock 200t. Bone stock. I think it may just turn our thinking on top handles around



I dought it.:msp_wink::msp_wink:


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## Zombiechopper (Feb 26, 2013)

hoeyrd2110 said:


> I want to see a stock 355 vs stock 200t. Bone stock. I think it may just turn our thinking on top handles around



a ported 355 is still slower than a stock 200T.


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## Hddnis (Feb 26, 2013)

Zombiechopper said:


> a ported 355 is still slower than a stock 200T.




Where do you get that? The only side by side video I've seen was the one Mastermind just did where he had both modded. Echo had a mild woods port and Stihl had muff mod and no base gasket. Hardly stock for either saw and the Echo was not broken in yet, yet they pulled nearly equal times. 



Mr. HE


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## hoeyrd2110 (Feb 26, 2013)

Zombiechopper said:


> a ported 355 is still slower than a stock 200T.



How abouts we go back take our creamsicle blinders(stihl sickness:jester off and look at the two saws compared for reference in that thread. Unless your opinion of stock is not the same as the definition of stock...

Why are we comparing it to a 200t anyways. The 201t is better or worse than a 355t once we have some STOCK comparo vids and guys in the field voice real world opinions we will know. And then once the 540 comes out we go thru it all again. Its called competition. It makes the models we see better. Wether echo husky stihl or whoever wins...


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## Zombiechopper (Feb 26, 2013)

you echo guys are so sensitive. I need to remember to put the kid gloves on so I don't get you too ruffled. 

I actually had not read Randy's reply to find out that the 200T he ran against the ported 355T was gasket less and had the muffler baffles milled out. Knowing that now certainly does make the new Echo look better in comparison. 

You guys keep forgetting I have complimented this dang thing about three times already. Sheesh. It's just too easy to get all yer hackles up. I do have to say, if I were Top Handle Saw shopping tomorrow I would probably buy this new Echo. There. I said it. I like this saw. I feel dirty now, but in a good way. And for the record, I have never been an Echo basher. I'm a crappy saw basher and it just so happens that echo has made a lot of very crappy saws. This one isn't one of them, and that is definitely a good thing.


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## Hddnis (Feb 26, 2013)

Zombiechopper said:


> you echo guys are so sensitive. I need to remember to put the kid gloves on so I don't get you too ruffled.
> 
> I actually had not read Randy's reply to find out that the 200T he ran against the ported 355T was gasket less and had the muffler baffles milled out. Knowing that now certainly does make the new Echo look better in comparison.
> 
> You guys keep forgetting I have complimented this dang thing about three times already. Sheesh. It's just too easy to get all yer hackles up. I do have to say, if I were Top Handle Saw shopping tomorrow I would probably buy this new Echo. There. I said it. I like this saw. I feel dirty now, but in a good way. And for the record, I have never been an Echo basher. I'm a crappy saw basher and it just so happens that echo has made a lot of very crappy saws. This one isn't one of them, and that is definitely a good thing.




Zombie, I ain't picking on you, just enjoying talking saws myself here.

I'm a mild fan of Echo saws, some of them anyway. I've also got mostly good things to say about Stihl and maybe a kind word or two for one or two Huskies. 

(Nothing buy glowing praise for Dolmar)

Anyway, no offense meant on my part.



Mr. HE


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## hoeyrd2110 (Feb 26, 2013)

i like most of the older saws not just echo, not ruffled at all.

brand loyalty is too much drama to deal with even if i wanted to, which i have enough drama in my day to day then to be online throwing hissy fits over stuff that impacts no one except the keys on the board. no what i mean

don't worry it's only alittle heated conversation


edit: hey zombie i added a bit to my last post to emphasize the non malicious intent, if it seemed malicious is was most definetly not meant that way!


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## mountainlake (Feb 26, 2013)

Fact is quite a few Echo saws run real good and have for a while, nothing against any well made saw unlike some on here. Steve


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## Zombiechopper (Feb 26, 2013)

No hard feelings dudes. I ain't no Stihl head I just love me my 200T's like a man loves a piece of tail. I'll probably never wear out my hoard of them but if I do I would switch to a Japanese ginger gal from what I've seen. 

My biggest gripe with the newest generation like 600P type saws is the low compression due to large squish bands. 

They really were shooting for the moon on this top handle as evidenced by that nice domed piston. It's a real beauty. I would still like to know what kind of compression it's making. Measuring squish will be mostly irrelevant with a domed slug though. 

I've also been reminded I need to get out an end mill and work over some 200 mufflers on the inside. I can't sleep knowing an echo is outcutting me somewhere


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## mountainlake (Feb 28, 2013)

Zombiechopper said:


> a ported 355 is still slower than a stock 200T.



Get over it, Echo saws cut good. Steve


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## Franny K (Feb 28, 2013)

What is the bore and stroke of this cs-355T? Or how do you look up the bore and stroke of any echo saw? I notice from another thread on here it has a filled crank and what get called stuffers in the transfer passages. I am wondering if that might go along with a longer stroke than normal for 35cc.


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## Majorpayne (Feb 28, 2013)

Franny K said:


> What is the bore and stroke of this cs-355T? Or how do you look up the bore and stroke of any echo saw? I notice from another thread on here it has a filled crank and what get called stuffers in the transfer passages. I am wondering if that might go along with a longer stroke than normal for 35cc.



Why don't you just Google Echo and look for yourself?


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## Zombiechopper (Feb 28, 2013)

mountainlake said:


> Get over it, Echo saws cut good. Steve



That has not been my experience. This new model looks good. The older reed valve top handles ( that they still sell  ) are horrendous. I've run em and worked on them. Echo had a long long ways to go to make a useable top handle but it looks like they finally got there.


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## Franny K (Feb 28, 2013)

Majorpayne said:


> Why don't you just Google Echo and look for yourself?



Maybe I didn't google hard enough. I have been to the home website and downloaded the owners manual.


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## Edge & Engine (Feb 28, 2013)

Franny K said:


> What is the bore and stroke of this cs-355T? Or how do you look up the bore and stroke of any echo saw? I notice from another thread on here it has a filled crank and what get called stuffers in the transfer passages. I am wondering if that might go along with a longer stroke than normal for 35cc.




Bore 39mm stroke 30mm


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## Franny K (Feb 28, 2013)

Edge & Engine said:


> Bore 39mm stroke 30mm


 Thanks Stihl puts their specs for the 201t in the owners manual bore 40 stroke 28. So kind of normal aspect ratio for the industry.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Mar 9, 2013)

*time to try one?*

I'm a Stihl lover at heart,but I am looking seriously at the 355T. From what I hear I think this will be worth giving a shot. The price sounds better than $620 , and not having to mod. It out of the box to make it Rev sounds like a no-brainer . The warranty too...... Please correct me if I Sound like im making irrational decisions...


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## tallguys (Mar 9, 2013)

RYNOMAGNUM said:


> I'm a Stihl lover at heart,but I am looking seriously at the 355T. From what I hear I think this will be worth giving a shot. The price sounds better than $620 , and not having to mod. It out of the box to make it Rev sounds like a no-brainer . The warranty too...... Please correct me if I Sound like im making irrational decisions...



Sounds rational to me. Don't put any extra weight on the warranty though, as much can be blamed on user error three, four and five years going.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Mar 14, 2013)

*Bought one today!*

I just bought one this evening. I haven't cut with it yet,but I have a nice size oak removal to do tomorrow.... I will put it to the test! I must say the saw feels REALLY good in the hand and feels well balanced. It sounds good and strong. I hope it saws as good as it feels and sounds! Will update tomorrow.


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## Butterz (Mar 14, 2013)

RYNOMAGNUM said:


> I just bought one this evening. I haven't cut with it yet,but I have a nice size oak removal to do tomorrow.... I will put it to the test! I must say the saw feels REALLY good in the hand and feels well balanced. It sounds good and strong. I hope it saws as good as it feels and sounds! Will update tomorrow.



Cool man, keep us posted


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## 7sleeper (Mar 15, 2013)

A video would be nice besides the obligatory pictures! 

You know the rule no pics it hasn't happened.

7


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## PainAndMurphy (Mar 15, 2013)

*Av*



RYNOMAGNUM said:


> I just bought one this evening. I haven't cut with it yet,but I have a nice size oak removal to do tomorrow.... I will put it to the test! I must say the saw feels REALLY good in the hand and feels well balanced. It sounds good and strong. I hope it saws as good as it feels and sounds! Will update tomorrow.




if u can, please - tell how the anti-vibration / vibration-isolation works in your opinion, and if possible, comparing to what saws u useb before or still use.. say?

Jo.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Mar 15, 2013)

Well I ran the saw a lot today and I'm very impressed with it. I revs like a 200 and has what seems to be equal power of a 201. The engine is smooth and makes power smooth....no lag to it between r.p.m ranges and revs right up on command.
I was able to make some very technical cuts with it with ease.(fence within 6 feet of the base and limbs about 10 inch diameter....angle wedge cut and slow sawwing "walking " them to safe drop zone and finishing the cut with spot on timing and speed...) The saw really performed. The handle of it ,like others have stated, really makes this saw shine. They have the best feel of any trim-saw I have ran. The anti-vibe system must work good because I never noticed any vibes at all...
If I was trying to pick this saw apart,the only negatives I could come up with are 1. It does have kinda small fuel and oil openings 2. It seems to run out of gas faster than the 200 or 201... (maybe I was doing more cutting than previous saws....Lol! 
Ohh, I was running a 14'' bar and a semi-chisel non-safety chain like I always run on trim-saws.
I haven't mastered posting pics on here,so I'll put one as my avatar...
Hope this might help someone that's on the fence over one these saws. 
I say "BIG THUMBS UP!"


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 15, 2013)

Good to know im not sure i want to want for the mystical T540xp.


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 23, 2013)

I was gonna order a 355T locally today 14" for $449 are any sponsors cheaper?


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## PainAndMurphy (Mar 23, 2013)

*I'd bet..*

..that the 355T is built more simply than the T540XP 


My 'wild' guess.


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## JimiClimber (Apr 6, 2013)

*Thanks*



RYNOMAGNUM said:


> Well I ran the saw a lot today and I'm very impressed with it. I revs like a 200 and has what seems to be equal power of a 201. The engine is smooth and makes power smooth....no lag to it between r.p.m ranges and revs right up on command.
> I was able to make some very technical cuts with it with ease.(fence within 6 feet of the base and limbs about 10 inch diameter....angle wedge cut and slow sawwing "walking " them to safe drop zone and finishing the cut with spot on timing and speed...) The saw really performed. The handle of it ,like others have stated, really makes this saw shine. They have the best feel of any trim-saw I have ran. The anti-vibe system must work good because I never noticed any vibes at all...
> If I was trying to pick this saw apart,the only negatives I could come up with are 1. It does have kinda small fuel and oil openings 2. It seems to run out of gas faster than the 200 or 201... (maybe I was doing more cutting than previous saws....Lol!
> Ohh, I was running a 14'' bar and a semi-chisel non-safety chain like I always run on trim-saws.
> ...



Ive been reading this thread for an hour or so. Finally got to some sound opinion based off of a solid day of experience! Thanks! 

Had to read through the unkind terrible posts of PGG or PPG or whatever his name is, but it was worth it. It was honestly the first time Ive read talk like that from a forum that I respect immensely and pull so much wisdom and knowledge from. Guy sounds like a royal &*($

I may have to buy a 355 as a "backup" saw to my modded 201t (again, this forum allowed me to do that, and thank god for the mod walk-through). When I first started climbing full time 2 years ago I had an new Echo 360T. I didn't like it. It wouldn't stay running, it would bog in cuts, shut off at odd times, take too many pulls to get going (even when warm). So I bought a used 201T (because I'm new to climbing I haven't had the pleasure of a 200t) and stuck with that till I bought a new 201T and modded it (what a difference!!!).

Alas, I am in year 2. 4 promotions all the way to primary full+overtime climber, lots of equipment mistakes, tons of reading this forum and now I need backup equipment. And I guess I'll try the 355 and see how it goes.

This rant is really just to say thanks to everyone...


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## KenJax Tree (Apr 6, 2013)

JimiClimber said:


> Ive been reading this thread for an hour or so. Finally got to some sound opinion based off of a solid day of experience! Thanks!
> 
> Had to read through the unkind terrible posts of PGG or PPG or whatever his name is, but it was worth it. It was honestly the first time Ive read talk like that from a forum that I respect immensely and pull so much wisdom and knowledge from. Guy sounds like a royal &*($
> 
> ...



Don't be suprised if your modded 201T backs up the 355T,mine does the 201T has a little more power but the 355 feels better.


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## rms61moparman (Apr 6, 2013)

JimiClimber said:


> Ive been reading this thread for an hour or so. Finally got to some sound opinion based off of a solid day of experience! Thanks!
> 
> Had to read through the unkind terrible posts of PGG or PPG or whatever his name is, but it was worth it. It was honestly the first time Ive read talk like that from a forum that I respect immensely and pull so much wisdom and knowledge from. * Guy sounds like a royal &*($*
> I may have to buy a 355 as a "backup" saw to my modded 201t (again, this forum allowed me to do that, and thank god for the mod walk-through). When I first started climbing full time 2 years ago I had an new Echo 360T. I didn't like it. It wouldn't stay running, it would bog in cuts, shut off at odd times, take too many pulls to get going (even when warm). So I bought a used 201T (because I'm new to climbing I haven't had the pleasure of a 200t) and stuck with that till I bought a new 201T and modded it (what a difference!!!).
> ...








Well, you're half right.








I don't know that there is any royalty in his family though!


Mike


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## machinisttx (Apr 7, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> Good to know im not sure i want to want for the mystical T540xp.



Country Homes Power - Husqvarna T540XP

I saw one cheaper somewhere else a day or two ago, but didn't bookmark the link.


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## JimiClimber (Apr 7, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> Don't be suprised if your modded 201T backs up the 355T,mine does the 201T has a little more power but the 355 feels better.



I like this. In a game of inches, I'll roll what feels better, especially when its in my hand for more than 8 hours a day. That little palm rest seemed ridiculous at first glance....but then I started thinking about it, and if my arm has to work that much harder to hold a typical top handle compared to that little point of leverage on the 355 handle...idk...again, thinking...

In my reading since the post I have found there are two types of 355t's available. Carb compliant and non compliant. Also, they are not available in several states...

I'm wondering if this is the reason they are creating happy climbers in comparison to the 201t owners, is it that they aren't compliant with environmental restrictions in certain states/countries thereby limiting their availability in those areas? Is this the reason they are creating a fast following of happy users saying they are quite powerful? I feel like this question may have been brushed against in an earlier post but wasn't fully elaborated on. Maybe that's why the 201's aren't up to the usual standards, because Stihl has to make their product available everywhere? IDK, is this malarkey?

Ordering one next week for sure regardless.


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## echoshawn (Apr 7, 2013)

machinisttx said:


> Country Homes Power - Husqvarna T540XP
> 
> I saw one cheaper somewhere else a day or two ago, but didn't bookmark the link.



This is our former local echo and stihl dealer. Still have some Stihl I believe, but with multiple bad experiences there over the years, I'll never shop them again...
They're not even listed on stihl's site as a dealer seem to remember. Don't really like to service, just sell you new equipment.


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## 7sleeper (Apr 7, 2013)

What really astonishes me is that these companies still haven't recognized the possibility to individualize the grip. I mean every handgun company is offering this since years but these companies are deaf to individual needs.

7


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## M&Rtree (Apr 20, 2013)

Dealer cut me a deal on one yesterday. I like it so far and can't wait to work it beside my other topping saws and see where it cuts.


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## OldSkull (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi guys!
It's my first post, I read all 25 pages of that thread to find out I'm "Stihl" confuse about my choice...

I have about 140 feet’s of 5' tall X 5' wide hedges to cut composed of 1" and 2" branches, 100 feet’s need to be cut 3 feet’s high, 40 feet’s to 2 feet’s high and all section trim to 3' wide. A 4hr job with a chain saw I use to do with an old 015 top handle Stihl, I give my CS to my brother and decided to buy a new one, I learn the mistake I made soon enough....

They all look like plastic toys now and those with "partial" magnesium on cost megabuck! Since I want a top handle I have to stretch my budget over $300 (I live in Canada...add %15 taxes) after doing some search 3 product catch my attention Stihl MS192TC-E / Husqvarna 334T / Echo CS360T

I can find the Husky so I check for the Stihl ($339) and the Echo ($349), I'm no expert but I think the Echo is more powerful so I decide to buy one until I read all comments about the "New" to me CS355T! Back to the starting line again...This is too expensive for that job.....No I don't want to rent one...No I don't want a used chain saw....Crap.

Thank you for all the fun reading... ^_^


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## Treespotter (May 30, 2013)

OldSkull said:


> I have about 140 feet&rsquo;s of 5' tall X 5' wide hedges to cut composed of 1" and 2" branches, 100 feet&rsquo;s need to be cut 3 feet&rsquo;s high, 40 feet&rsquo;s to 2 feet&rsquo;s high and all section trim to 3' wide. A 4hr job with a chain saw I use to do with an old 015 top handle Stihl, I give my CS to my brother and decided to buy a new one, I learn the mistake I made soon enough....
> 
> They all look like plastic toys now and those with "partial" magnesium on cost megabuck!



Oldskull, check out the Silky website. Those products are all high grade metal and suit your needs more than enough.
No pun intended!


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## pgg (May 31, 2013)

talking tophandle saws the 334XPT husky is by far the best choice of those three, the 360T echo a distant second and the 192T is just a airy-fairy sorry a$$ when it comes to it's engine, 192T zero torque and piddling horsepower with an annoying peaky power curve, a 12" bar is far too much for it and, hilariously, stihl dealers still manage to hoist 14" bars onto the poor newbie buyer. 

The 10" bar setup (wide tip not a carving bar) is what you want on the 192T. It's skinny 3/8LP .043 stuff, around the 42 link mark, .043 the cutting teeth are narrower too, narrower than normal .050 and the chains are weaker. And BTW get this - 1/4 pitch chain is the best of the lot stronger and more durable than any 3/8LP chain you can find. Years back the wide-boys and the shifty scheming vultures and the weasels running the chainsaw firms all colluded together to phase-out and get rid of 1/4 pitch sprockets bars and chains, we can't go on supplying Joe Public quality stuff you see.


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## pgg (May 31, 2013)

192T's only saviour it's the most agile TH saw (except of course the nonsense chinese 25cc toys from wallymart) and a 192T's nice and light and easy on the arms. The engine will last for homeyard Joe and co, burns it's guts out on commercial stuff. Don't ask, they're reasonably tough engine but still cheaply-made garbage in the whole scheme of things



Now to the horribly plastic-feeling 360T mmwwaahah, there's various know-alls on this site who get all snotty when I tell 'em the 360T is just a POS, some here claim they're professional users but the saws I'm talking about do triple their hours in one month than they'll do in 6 months. Just seen YET ANOTHER 360T burn it's guts out, the sixth so far, gutted muffler and jetted this one lasted a whole six months or so. Needless to say buggered seals from grooved crank means throw into the river or keep as spares for the next POS echo that comes along...


But big improvement over the usual 3-4 weeks running stock from the shop where they overheat themselves to a screeching halt before long. Pro-stihls and huskies still running sweet after ten years on original crank with a bit of a spruce up to the top-end every couple of years or so. Music to the ears as the echos do their death rattle.


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## pgg (May 31, 2013)

The 334XPT, supposedly down on power over the grunty-as 335 and 338, pro-saw performance tuned down for backyard Bill, don't know how, possibly narrower ports or something but open the muffler, triple the size of the exhaust outlet and you'd get 1.5kw easy enough. The husky engine decades old and the echos latest and greatest effort, the 355, from strip-down pics on this site from the modder crowd, looks similar except the husky engine looks classier with better components. Not bad echo, getting close now, just catching up to huskys ten year old design... hohoho. As for the ridiculous "crank stuffer" B.S. what absolute nonsense, gimme one of those 355 echos as a bush saw, I'd send those crank stuffers flying out the exhaust. Along with a bit of shrapnel hopefully.. hohoho


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## 7sleeper (May 31, 2013)

pgg said:


> 192T's only saviour it's the most agile TH saw (except of course the nonsense chinese 25cc toys from wallymart) and a 192T's nice and light and easy on the arms. The engine will last for homeyard Joe and co, burns it's guts out on commercial stuff. Don't ask, they're reasonably tough engine but still cheaply-made garbage in the whole scheme of things
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I see your back. 

What I don't quite understand and hope you can clarify is the following. You always mention that Echo's saws all "burn" to death from overheating. As far as I have understood these tophandle saws are made for climbers. Now I'm not a climber but all the climbing I have seen does not include long cutting times. The principle is move from one branch to another, delimb and move on. How can a saw overheat in such a working environment? When the wood get's proportionally large the climbers change over to larger saws. Maybe you already explained it in one of your raves and I missed it but could you please explain what is done different in NZ. 

Thank you, 

7


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## mountainlake (May 31, 2013)

Pgg. Did you get to see that vid of a 33c Echo cutting real close to the 36cc 200t. Has anyone besides pgg managed to ruin a Echo saw that was tuned right. Tuned right has a lot to do with it. Steve


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## MCW (May 31, 2013)

7sleeper said:


> What I don't quite understand and hope you can clarify is the following. You always mention that Echo's saws all "burn" to death from overheating. As far as I have understood these tophandle saws are made for climbers. Now I'm not a climber but all the climbing I have seen does not include long cutting times. The principle is move from one branch to another, delimb and move on. How can a saw overheat in such a working environment? When the wood get's proportionally large the climbers change over to larger saws. Maybe you already explained it in one of your raves and I missed it but could you please explain what is done different in NZ.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> 7



Actually top handled saws are used a lot more outside of climbing than people think. Contract fruit tree pruners will run these saws for 9-10 hours a day basically non stop apart from sharpening and fuel/oil. I've run my 200T pruning out tree bottoms for around 7 hours a day - actual run time. They are great in this role however some contractors have gone back to rear handled saws due to the risk of injury from idiotic and inexperienced employees.
In many ways climbing saws get it easy - unless they get dropped from a great height


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## Steve NW WI (May 31, 2013)

pgg said:


> (snip)
> 
> Just seen YET ANOTHER 360T burn it's guts out, the sixth so far, gutted muffler and jetted this one lasted a whole six months or so. Needless to say buggered seals from grooved crank means throw into the river or keep as spares for the next POS echo that comes along...
> 
> (snip)



Perhaps you'd like to share some evidence of this with us? Soon. Otherwise, I'm going to have to assume you're just violating Rule 20, which says: 

"20. You are not permitted to post or insinuate false information about members as well as sponsors. If you have never owned or used (at great length) a product offered by one of the sponsors, you are not permitted to comment on the value, validity, or effectiveness of these products or services. "


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## Cliff R (May 31, 2013)

"Has anyone besides pgg managed to ruin a Echo saw that was tuned right. Tuned right has a lot to do with it. Steve" 

Steve, even though I'm going to fall into PGG's "know it all" catagory of wanna-be "professional" users, I've logged about a zillion hours on my CS-360T, which is muffler modded with perfect tune, and it lives just fine.

It also gets FULL maintenence after each outing, which includes cleaning, blowing all the chips out of, cleaning the air filter, and chain sharpening/tightening. It only gets 93 octane with 40 to 1 Stihl or Husky premium mix. These things probably have a LOT to due with how well it lasts.

My personal evaluation of the CS-360T isn't all that far from PGG's, I think it is incredibly "bulky" for a top handle, poor balance, in todays lingo not very "ergonomic". Power is decent, not far enough off of an MS-200 to justify the cost difference. The rev limiter is absolutely the most annoying feature of this saw, I absolutely HATE it. It mimics a perfect no-load full throttle tune, and IMHO, is probably why most of these saws suffer from PC damage, even when muffler modded. It's so touchy on the tune that you have to start out "pig" rich and sneak up on it, the rev limiter kicks in exactly at the same moment you reach the most ideal "H" speed screw adjustment. You also have to make slight "H" speed screw adjustments to it for varying DA in different seasons, or it will go lean in really good air, and act a tad "sluggish" in hot/humid air. Ya, I'm a bit anal with these things, but ALL of my equipment runs like it's supposed to, and delivers many years of service without smoking the P/C's.

I've used mine on commercail jobs where it ran pretty much continuously for 2 days, stopping only for refueling and chain sharpening, and it does a supurb job, never grumbling once anyplace. I've been trying my very best to burn the darned thing up, just to see if there is any validity to the bashings it continues to receive from our friend in Australia, but the little POS CS-360T continues to defy the laws of physics and runs just like the day I cut the muffler in half, gutted it, and tuned it correctly.

On the subject of Echo chainsaws, the real "home-run" in their line-up are the CS-370/400's. Not overly powerful anyplace, strong "mid-range" power with plenty of "grunt" for little saws, but they just continue to run no matter what you do to them. I've been trying to burn up my CS-370 along side the CS-360T, and it just keeps cutting. Unlike the CS-360T, the CS-370 has geat AV, well balanced, relatively light, and just a great little saw for a "box store" clamshell unit. Best $200 you will ever spend for a small limbing/firewood saw.....IMHO.......Cliff

My helper Nathan on a commercial job in Delaware, you couldn't pry the little Echo away from him for 2 days!

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachments/chainsaw/297948d1370002750-chainsaw-stuff-002-jpg


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## heyduke (May 31, 2013)

Cliff R said:


> "Has anyone besides pgg managed to ruin a Echo saw that was tuned right. Tuned right has a lot to do with it. Steve"
> 
> Steve, even though I'm going to fall into PGG's "know it all" catagory of wanna-be "professional" users, I've logged about a zillion hours on my CS-360T, which is muffler modded with perfect tune, and it lives just fine.
> 
> ...



great foto, cliff! and i agree with your comments on the 360t. i've got a 330t and a 360t, both over six years of nearly daily use, climbing, limbing and next to the chipper. haven't been able to break them. looks like they may outlast me.

larry


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## zogger (May 31, 2013)

pgg said:


> 192T's only saviour it's the most agile TH saw (except of course the nonsense chinese 25cc toys from wallymart) and a 192T's nice and light and easy on the arms. The engine will last for homeyard Joe and co, burns it's guts out on commercial stuff. Don't ask, they're reasonably tough engine but still cheaply-made garbage in the whole scheme of things
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Post some pics of the actual damage.


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## Cliff R (May 31, 2013)

"great foto, cliff!"

Thanks. I forgot how to put the picture in the response. If someone has time, can they run thru the steps again? Sorry for the bad cases of CRS that I have these days....it only gets worse the older you get!....Cliff


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## just1 (Jun 14, 2013)

*e b*

has anyone noticed that sthils climbing saws are all over e bay but you cant hardly find an echo there is a hand full but no where near as many as the sthils I think that says a lot


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## mountainlake (Jun 14, 2013)

A lot of people with it's a Stihl mentality that buy their low end saw just cuz of the name. Nothing wrong with a 200t but the 192t is cheap and gutless. Steve


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## Franny K (Jun 14, 2013)

just1 said:


> has anyone noticed that sthils climbing saws are all over e bay but you cant hardly find an echo there is a hand full but no where near as many as the sthils I think that says a lot



You have to watch out what you see in your searches often is effected by the keyword spamming that report this item has no effect on.

I don't notice and what I would look at is what something sells for, factor in a depreciation amount, compare to new price get a % number. Then compare that echo to stihl if that is what concerns you. If you use for the 330 and 360 the new price I got in a flyer from bailey's perhaps in march with free shipping it sure seems those models hold value as much as anything all over ebay not just in the lawn and garden portion where the chainsaws seem to be found.

I also notice the guys who like to post about flipping saws use craig's list first and ebay as a last resort or at least seem to post to lead one to conclude that.


----------



## MCW (Jun 14, 2013)

just1 said:


> has anyone noticed that sthils climbing saws are all over e bay but you cant hardly find an echo there is a hand full but no where near as many as the sthils I think that says a lot



Actually all that tells me is that for every 100 Stihl top handled saws sold there was one Echo.


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## mountainlake (Jun 14, 2013)

MCW said:


> Actually all that tells me is that for every 100 Stihl top handled saws sold there was one Echo.




Just proves they're a lot of people with it's a Stihl mentality even with the declining quality on everything but their pro saws. Steve


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## MCW (Jun 14, 2013)

mountainlake said:


> Just proves they're a lot of people with it's a Stihl mentality even with the declining quality on everything but their pro saws. Steve



Hey I agree but using eBay as an information source is probably somewhat statistically unsound.
I suffer from "if it's a good saw it's worth buying" mentality.


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## bryanr2 (Jun 14, 2013)

Since we havent had any repair or problem threads on this saw is it safe to say it is a winner? Or are people staying away from them?


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## 7sleeper (Jun 14, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> Since we havent had any repair or problem threads on this saw is it safe to say it is a winner? Or are people staying away from them?



You obviously have not been following this thread.View attachment 300079
Ask pgg he has the secret mission by Echo to get all burnt up, death rattle saws out there before it goes public....

7


----------



## mountainlake (Jun 15, 2013)

Pgg should send me all those burnt up Echo top handles as a new short block costs $107 for a 330t and $127 for a $360 plus real easy too work on. I got a 330t off Ebay that has been straight gassed, turning it into a 360t. Steve


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## MCW (Jun 15, 2013)

Apparently they all disappeared in a 20 megaton mushroom cloud so no parts left to save.


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## just1 (Jun 15, 2013)

*echo n sthil*

I own both kinds of saw a few of each but I keep sthil for my big saws n echo for my smaller saws for the price n performance u can't beat an echo u just can't but from my experience when you gotta cut some big wood its time to break out the 87cc or 93cc sthil but in a tree give me an echo


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## millbilly (Jun 15, 2013)

just1 said:


> I own both kinds of saw a few of each but I keep sthil for my big saws n echo for my smaller saws for the price n performance u can't beat an echo u just can't but from my experience when you gotta cut some big wood its time to break out the 87cc or 93cc sthil but in a tree give me an echo



You gotta 056 nice


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## KenJax Tree (Jun 15, 2013)

After reading these 355T threads and getting sick of waiting for the elusive T540xp to appear i went and bought an Echo 355T and so far i love it,its not a 200T but it smokes a 201T outta the box, the 201 has more torque after the mods but the Echo isn't far behind and when its broke in they give the 201's a run for their money.


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## just1 (Jun 15, 2013)

*056*

yea its my favorite that and my climbing saw are the two that nobody on the job or at home are allowd to touch


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## machinisttx (Jun 15, 2013)

I still haven't seen one of these at my local dealer. Actually, the only top handles he's had in for a good while have been 341T's.


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## just1 (Jun 16, 2013)

*280e*

I need a back up climbing saw for my back up you know a just in case saw and I found a echo 280e for really cheap any input would help:chainsawguy:


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## PainAndMurphy (Jun 16, 2013)

*O.A.S. ?? ironic too..*



just1 said:


> I need a back up climbing saw for my back up you know a just in case saw and I found a echo 280e for really cheap any input would help:chainsawguy:




..ironic since I was just offered the rear-handle version of it a few hours ago!

really old.. 

I'd rather have a working brake up there.. 



only if I'm cutting alone, maybe.. but most of the time - I'm with people. 


Better safe, if it's for work, budd.. 



collectible? - different story


P&M Jo


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## just1 (Jun 16, 2013)

*thanks*


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## bootboy (Jun 25, 2013)

Just ordered one from my dealer, he should have it in a few days. I'll be running this chain on it, woot!







I filed this stihl PS3 chain square last night, in anticipation of the new saw I'm pretty excited


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## MCW (Jun 25, 2013)

bootboy said:


> =I filed this stihl PS3 chain square last night, in anticipation of the new saw I'm pretty excited



Good job! You may already know this but Stihl have released the PS3 without the bumperlinks now.


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## Eccentric (Jun 25, 2013)

MCW said:


> Good job! You may already know this but Stihl have released the PS3 without the bumperlinks now.



opcorn:


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## KenJax Tree (Jun 25, 2013)

I don't think PS3 will work on the Echo, the drive link counts don't match. My 14" bar needs 52dl and the 14" PS3 is only made with 50dl. I use PS3 on my 200/201 which use 50dl but on the 355T i had to use PM.


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## MCW (Jun 25, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> I don't think PS3 will work on the Echo, the drive link counts don't match. My 14" bar needs 52dl and the 14" PS3 is only made with 50dl. I use PS3 on my 200/201 which use 50dl but on the 355T i had to use PM.



Just add 2DL to a 50DL loop. Sort of easy.


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## KenJax Tree (Jun 25, 2013)

MCW said:


> Just add 2DL to a 50DL loop. Sort of easy.



Yup i just let him know you can't buy chain to fit it and if he didn't add 2 links to his freshly sharpened chain its not gonna work:msp_smile:


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## opinion (Jun 25, 2013)

You can get Stihl chains in any DL count in loops. I stock them for my Echo and Husky people. If your dealer doesn't have them in loops, just cut one up.


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## heyduke (Jun 25, 2013)

bootboy said:


> Just ordered one from my dealer, he should have it in a few days. I'll be running this chain on it, woot!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



seems like a great idea to use square ground chisel for a climbing saw, which seldom encounters the outrages of rock and dirt. but why do you use low kick-back chain? i think oregon still makes a professional lo-pro chain. carlton seems to have dropped it's full chisel lo-pro, a shame. i thought it was better than the oregon and the top plates were longer.


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## PainAndMurphy (Jun 25, 2013)

*well, it's still a Full-Chisel *



heyduke said:


> seems like a great idea to use square ground chisel for a climbing saw, which seldom encounters the outrages of rock and dirt. but why do you use low kick-back chain? i think oregon still makes a professional lo-pro chain. carlton seems to have dropped it's full chisel lo-pro, a shame. i thought it was better than the oregon and the top plates were longer.




I have it, and I'm satisfied. I keep it on my *untouchable* personal 200T (a new CS-355T is still not affordable, I have rebuilt my STIHL from debris, junk, trash and leftovers a colleague arborist gave me + the cheaper rubber parts from eBay..) 


Jo.


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## SawTroll (Jun 25, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> I don't think PS3 will work on the Echo, the drive link counts don't match. My 14" bar needs 52dl and the 14" PS3 is only made with 50dl. I use PS3 on my 200/201 which use 50dl but on the 355T i had to use PM.



Your dealer could make you some 52dl ones, or at least he could special order them for you. 

Basically you can get any dl count you want, if you put just a little effort into it!


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## KenJax Tree (Jun 25, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> Your dealer could make you some 52dl ones, or at least he could special order them for you.
> 
> Basically you can get any dl count you want, if you put just a little effort into it!



I'm lucky if the dealers around here even know what PS3 is and they surley have no desire to find out or order a special loop.


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## PainAndMurphy (Jun 25, 2013)

*how many chains do you need, or how frequently do u change chains on that saw?*



KenJax Tree said:


> I'm lucky if the dealers around here even know what PS3 is and they surley have no desire to find out or order a special loop.




If u want , I can show u where I got my STIHL chains, including my 14" PS3 and more.. he shipped it to me overseas and didn't rip me off at all.. PM me if u wish that. I think he'd set any DL you wish for.. all u need is to just ask him..

Jo.


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## heyduke (Jun 25, 2013)

PainAndMurphy said:


> I have it, and I'm satisfied. I keep it on my *untouchable* personal 200T (a new CS-355T is still not affordable, I have rebuilt my STIHL from debris, junk, trash and leftovers a colleague arborist gave me + the cheaper rubber parts from eBay..)
> 
> 
> Jo.



yeah, didn't mean to bust your chops, i was just whining about the dwindling number of choices for those of us who use lo-pro chain. fortunately oregon still makes 91vx, a professional lo-pro. i've never learned to file square ground chain but it seems appropriate for a climbing saw. are you using one of those expensive filing guides or just filing free hand?

another way one can pick up some diddy-wah-diddy is by switching to a 12 inch bar, save on some filing time too.


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## PainAndMurphy (Jun 25, 2013)

*I fully relate to that budd..*



heyduke said:


> yeah, didn't mean to bust your chops, i was just whining about the dwindling number of choices for those of us who use lo-pro chain. fortunately oregon still makes 91vx, a professional lo-pro. i've never learned to file square ground chain but it seems appropriate for a climbing saw. are you using one of those expensive filing guides or just filing free hand?
> 
> another way one can pick up some diddy-wah-diddy is by switching to a 12 inch bar, save on some filing time too.




..that's why I was utterly happy to find a seller who would sell and ship me overseas that particular PS3 and the others. Now I am myself thinking of dressing my other personal CS360T and my 025 (with 18" Picco combo) with PS3  Should be a joy to saw with.. Gotta love a full-chisel LP! 

_______
EDIT:

OH! I 4got! - I file manually out in the open, round, and on the bench- I sharpen with a small pneumatic 'Dremel'-alternative grinder, using fine diamond sawchain grinding bits. Jo.


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## bootboy (Jun 25, 2013)

heyduke said:


> seems like a great idea to use square ground chisel for a climbing saw, which seldom encounters the outrages of rock and dirt. but why do you use low kick-back chain? i think oregon still makes a professional lo-pro chain. carlton seems to have dropped it's full chisel lo-pro, a shame. i thought it was better than the oregon and the top plates were longer.



It's green label chain, but don't let that fool you. The little bumpers on the drive links are so small and sit way below the actual rakers. I guarantee they in no way make the chain slower. I've been running 91vxl and this stuff is faster and smoother. I asked my dealer and he had no clue what PS3 was. He looked it up and said he could order it for $22 plus tax for a 52dl loop. I said "Pfff!". And got on ebay. I found 2 55dl loops shipped for $35. I took them to my dealer, bought some crap and then asked him to shorten my chains which he did for free because I spent money on other stuff. Woot! My echo guy said that they can do $400 on the saw, it'll be here in Thursday. 

I haven't cut with my square filed chain yet but I'm sure it's performance will be nothing scoff at. I just like the idea of having the fastest, smoothest chain I can when in a tree taking a top. Plus the fact that it'll never see dirt or rocks. Btw, I file by hand and had this chain done in about 20min.


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## heyduke (Jun 25, 2013)

bootboy said:


> It's green label chain, but don't let that fool you. The little bumpers on the drive links are so small and sit way below the actual rakers. I guarantee they in no way make the chain slower. I've been running 91vxl and this stuff is faster and smoother. I asked my dealer and he had no clue what PS3 was. He looked it up and said he could order it for $22 plus tax for a 52dl loop. I said "Pfff!". And got on ebay. I found 2 55dl loops shipped for $35. I took them to my dealer, bought some crap and then asked him to shorten my chains which he did for free because I spent money on other stuff. Woot! My echo guy said that they can do $400 on the saw, it'll be here in Thursday.
> 
> I haven't cut with my square filed chain yet but I'm sure it's performance will be nothing scoff at. I just like the idea of having the fastest, smoothest chain I can when in a tree taking a top. Plus the fact that it'll never see dirt or rocks. Btw, I file by hand and had this chain done in about 20min.



i buy oregon vx, a no frills, no bumps chain, by the roll (or half roll) from baileys. i use mostly 12 inch bars so a little chain lasts a long time. what files do you use for your square grind? i'd like to watch over your shoulder some time. also, it would be interesting to compare your home brew square grind to a timberline sharpened full chisel, cutting cookies.

i've been using an echo 330t and a couple of 360t's for over five years now. once they're broken in and "tuned for max smoke" they run fine, last a long time. always start on one pull.


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## rms61moparman (Jun 25, 2013)

heyduke said:


> i buy oregon vx, a no frills, no bumps chain, by the roll (or half roll) from baileys. i use mostly 12 inch bars so a little chain lasts a long time. what files do you use for your square grind? i'd like to watch over your shoulder some time. also, it would be interesting to compare your home brew square grind to a timberline sharpened full chisel, cutting cookies.
> 
> i've been using an echo 330t and a couple of 360t's for over five years now. once they're broken in and "tuned for max smoke" they run fine, last a long time. always start on one pull.





I'm afraid there isn't going to be much of a contest between THAT square and ANY round full chisel.


Mike


----------



## heyduke (Jun 25, 2013)

rms61moparman said:


> I'm afraid there isn't going to be much of a contest between THAT square and ANY round full chisel.
> 
> 
> Mike



didn't intend to bet my pink slip on it, just like experimental data.

larry


----------



## PainAndMurphy (Jun 26, 2013)

heyduke said:


> didn't intend to bet my pink slip on it, just like experimental data.
> 
> larry





opinion: I think full-chisel will always let the bar go down with less friction since it clears better to the sides, to the whole width possible for the chain..


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## bootboy (Jun 26, 2013)

rms61moparman said:


> I'm afraid there isn't going to be much of a contest between THAT square and ANY round full chisel.
> 
> 
> Mike



I file a mean square indeed


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## MCW (Jun 26, 2013)

PainAndMurphy said:


> opinion: I think full-chisel will always let the bar go down with less friction since it clears better to the sides, to the whole width possible for the chain..



On more powerful small saws the PS3 certainly cuts well. On less powerful saws you are likely to find that the standard round filed PS3 will cut slower than equivalent semi chisel such as Carlton N1. The PS3 has a fairly large cutter and kerf compared to N1 and a number of guys that have tried PS3 on 200T's etc have gone back to normal semi chisel LP.
I like PS3 on my MS241C but it drags my 200T's down too much in the sort of hardwoods I cut. N1 will actually cut faster and stay sharp longer plus use less fuel doing so.


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## bootboy (Jun 26, 2013)

No hardwoods to speak of here. 90% of what I cut is evergreen or cottonwood/poplar. Ps3 is the business.


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## MCW (Jun 26, 2013)

bootboy said:


> No hardwoods to speak of here. 90% of what I cut is evergreen or cottonwood/poplar. Ps3 is the business.



Good to hear. Arborists in Australia haven't really taken to the PS3 and have gone back to standard semi chisel LP.


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## clintonior (Jun 26, 2013)

bootboy said:


> It's green label chain, but don't let that fool you. The little bumpers on the drive links are so small and sit way below the actual rakers. I guarantee they in no way make the chain slower. I've been running 91vxl and this stuff is faster and smoother. I asked my dealer and he had no clue what PS3 was. He looked it up and said he could order it for $22 plus tax for a 52dl loop. I said "Pfff!". And got on ebay. I found 2 55dl loops shipped for $35. I took them to my dealer, bought some crap and then asked him to shorten my chains which he did for free because I spent money on other stuff. Woot! My echo guy said that they can do $400 on the saw, it'll be here in Thursday.
> 
> I haven't cut with my square filed chain yet but I'm sure it's performance will be nothing scoff at. I just like the idea of having the fastest, smoothest chain I can when in a tree taking a top. Plus the fact that it'll never see dirt or rocks. Btw, I file by hand and had this chain done in about 20min.



Isn't this the same saw for 200 lessView attachment 301912
if so...


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## 7sleeper (Jun 26, 2013)

clintonior said:


> Isn't this the same saw for 200 lessView attachment 301912
> if so...



no

7


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## clintonior (Jun 26, 2013)

7sleeper said:


> no
> 
> 7



they look like they both rolled off the same assembly line . ones red ones black orange and grey care to clear up the real differences?


----------



## 7sleeper (Jun 26, 2013)

clintonior said:


> Isn't this the same saw for 200 lessView attachment 301912
> if so...



= CS33EDT / CS33EDTP : Outdoor Power Equipment

_ Displacement 32.2mL (cc)
Max Power 1.3kw : CS33EDT
Max Power 1.2kw : CS33EDTP
Decomp.System NO
Fuel Tank Capacity 0.29L
Oil Tank Capacity 0.18L
Chain Pitch 9.53mm (3/8")
Guide Bar Length 300mm : CS33EDT(30)
Guide Bar Length 350mm : CS33EDT(35) / CS33EDTP(35)
Type of Guide bar Sprocket Nose
Chain Gauge 1.27mm (0.05")
Dimensions(L x W x H) 277 x 255 x 220mm
Dry Weight 3.4kg_


Echo 355T 

= Chainsaws, Professional-Grade Chain Saws, Top Handle Chain Saws | ECHO USA
_Engine Displacement (cc) 35.8
Engine Displacement (cu in) 2.19
Starting System Reduced-Effort
Ignition System Digital
Carburetor (w/Purge Pump) Butterfly-Valve Diaphragm
Oiling System Automatic/Adjustable Clutch-Driven
Vibration Reduction System Standard
Available Bar Lengths (in) 14, 16
Fuel Capacity (fl. oz.) 11.2
Oil Capacity (fl oz) 8.2
Dry Weight (lbs)1 8
Consumer Warranty 5 years
Commercial Warranty 1 years
Rental Warranty 90 days_

Not the same.

7


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## bootboy (Jun 26, 2013)

clintonior said:


> they look like they both rolled off the same assembly line . ones red ones black orange and grey care to clear up the real differences?



32cc vs 35cc for starters. Take a close look, it's not hard to see that they are completely different saws different plastics, geometry, build style. I haven't been in both saws but I'd be willing to bet that are completely different when it comes to.... Everything.


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## KenJax Tree (Jun 26, 2013)

I believe the exact same saw as the Tanaka is a Hitachi.


----------



## 7sleeper (Jun 26, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> I believe the exact same saw as the Tanaka is a Hitachi.



Hitachi=Tanaka

Echo=Shindaiwa

Echo not equal Hitachi!

7


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## Franny K (Jun 26, 2013)

It does bear a resemblance to the 330 and 360 that were in the same price range and shipping deal in that flyer a few months ago.


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## KenJax Tree (Jun 26, 2013)

7sleeper said:


> Hitachi=Tanaka
> 
> Echo=Shindaiwa
> 
> ...



I didn't say Echo=Hitachi


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jun 26, 2013)

Franny K said:


> It does bear a resemblance to the 330 and 360 that were in the same price range and shipping deal in that flyer a few months ago.



How exactly does the clutch side of one resemble the recoil side of another:dunno:


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## MCW (Jun 26, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> I didn't say Echo=Hitachi



Although it may have came across that way I don't believe 7sleeper was referring to you with that last line.


----------



## 7sleeper (Jun 26, 2013)

Franny K said:


> It does bear a resemblance to the 330 and 360 that were in the same price range and shipping deal in that flyer a few months ago.



Ahhh I see it now too the orange color is the same.....



7


----------



## Franny K (Jun 26, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> How exactly does the clutch side of one resemble the recoil side of another:dunno:


 

The picture shows how the 355 doesn't have a big black glob to the rear of the handle like the other three. Things move along pretty fast and quite a posts appeared between when I started editing the picture and it posts. What is the chance this comparison with this tanaka one is just for amusement.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jun 26, 2013)

Franny K said:


> The picture shows how the 355 doesn't have a big black glob to the rear of the handle like the other three. Things move along pretty fast and quite a posts appeared between when I started editing the picture and it posts. What is the chance this comparison with this tanaka one is just for amusement.



Actually that isn't even a 355T its a 341,the 355 has the air filter in the back like the other 3


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jun 26, 2013)

This is my 355T when it was brand new
View attachment 301917


----------



## clintonior (Jun 26, 2013)

You left out the tanaka has a 7 year warranty. for apple to apples comparison also liters to oz :msp_confused: but 3.6cc for 200$ is a difference.

Features:
• 32.2 cc, 1.6 hp Commercial Grade Engine

• Sprocket-Nosed Bar with Oregon® Chain

• Side Access Chain Tensioner

• Half Throttle Choke with Purge Primer Bulb

• Built-in Lanyard Ring
• Engine Displacement (cc): 32.2

• Max Power (hp): 1.6

• Bar & Chain Length: 12", 14"

• Chain Pitch: 3/8" Low Profile

• Carburetor: Walbro Diaphragm

• Dry Weight (w/o b & c): 8.4 lbs

• Fuel Tank Capacity (oz): 9.9 fl. oz.

• Oil Tank Capacity (oz): 6.0 fl. oz.

• Vibration Level (m/s ²): 3.1

7-Year Consumer Warranty
2-Year Commercial Warranty
1-Year Rental Warranty



7sleeper said:


> = CS33EDT / CS33EDTP : Outdoor Power Equipment
> 
> _ Displacement 32.2mL (cc)
> Max Power 1.3kw : CS33EDT
> ...


----------



## 7sleeper (Jun 26, 2013)

clintonior said:


> *1.*You left out the tanaka has a 7 year warranty. for apple to apples comparison also liters to oz :msp_confused: *2.*but 2.6cc for 200$ is a difference.



*1.* I was hoping that someone would notice that!

*2.* That is the same argument I always hear from my wife. "Look honey you can get a chinese 60cc saw with 3.2hp on sale for 99€, why do you want to spend 6x that amount on a japanese saw...."

7


----------



## clintonior (Jun 26, 2013)

7sleeper said:


> *1.* I was hoping that someone would notice that!
> 
> *2.* That is the same argument I always hear from my wife. "Look honey you can get a chinese 60cc saw with 3.2hp on sale for 99€, why do you want to spend 6x that amount on a japanese saw...."
> 
> 7



its a clam shell to clam shell comparison? is 3.6 really gonna toss more chips for ya? mabye can ya limb with 32 cc im thinking so. I would likey buy from a company that honors their warranty from what I've heard echo is not stand up on their product warranty's. basically just tell you its bad gas go f yourself. so even if both the same your up 170 go buy another saw. and have a two saw plan.


----------



## Franny K (Jun 26, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> Actually that isn't even a 355T its a 341,the 355 has the air filter in the back like the other 3


 My apologies the differences are more subtle like holes in the chain brake lever.


----------



## PainAndMurphy (Jun 29, 2013)

*just hold them both, and try them both*

I did. 
Had'em both, still have the echo. 
Both used. 

To clarify: I had the H.T. 35cc , and I still have the ECHO CS341 and CS360T. 


I also had to fix the 341 and Hitachi-Tanaka more than once.. 



my decision, based on my own very personal experience: ECHO. Why? Quality of materials, and when fixed - it stays that way.. the materials (plastics..) on the H.T. seemed to fail..





PLUS - PS3 / full chisel on 12" while the wood is fresh, seems OK to me.. and I still use a 14" one on my strongest 200T.. seems OK. Hardwood? I grab my MacCat 2.3 with the manual override - and cut right through!! LLLLOOOOOOLLLLLL!!





just saying.



Jo.


----------



## bootboy (Jun 29, 2013)

Just put my square filed PS3 chain on my 355. Holy balls! This thing curb stomps my 360t that I thought cut well. I had no idea that a top handle saw could be so fast. My 360 struggled to pull the ps3 but the added power of the 355 makes it shine. After a few tanks, I'd put my 355 and hand filed square chain up against any 201 with a PMC chain. I need to run it more and get some vids up and do a thorough review next week.

I sold my mm'ed 360 for $265 so I can't make any video comparisons.


----------



## MCW (Jun 29, 2013)

bootboy said:


> Just put my square filed PS3 chain on my 355. Holy balls!... I had no idea that a top handle saw could be so fast.



Imagine how fast it would be on a 200T then


----------



## 7sleeper (Jun 29, 2013)

clintonior said:


> its a clam shell to clam shell comparison? is 3.6 really gonna toss more chips for ya? mabye can ya limb with 32 cc im thinking so. I would likey buy from a company that honors their warranty from what I've heard echo is not stand up on their product warranty's. basically just tell you its bad gas go f yourself. so even if both the same your up 170 go buy another saw. and have a two saw plan.



Sorry I only saw your answer now. 

Warranties are nice but warranty problems usually arise during the first few outings, so if you cut regularly who cares about the length of a warranty, all problems will already have surfaced. If on the other hand you are a homeowner chap who unpacks his new saw and cuts a few lower branches, which are disturbing him while using the lawnmower. Repacks and unpacks after a few years then you might need a long warranty, but then I totally understand the companies who check the two stroke mix and refuse if you have some old reeking stuff in you fuel tank. If you believe that a warranty is going to take care of that is in my eyes a fairytale way of seeing things. 

I limb with a 25cc saw and it cuts just wonderful. The secret is a sharp chain and not being in a hurry. 

But these are two totally different saws, even though they have a similar construction, we are talking about.

7


----------



## millbilly (Jun 29, 2013)

bootboy said:


> Just put my square filed PS3 chain on my 355. Holy balls! This thing curb stomps my 360t that I thought cut well. QUOTE]
> 
> Where do you learn how to hand file square chain?


----------



## rms61moparman (Jun 29, 2013)

millbilly said:


> bootboy said:
> 
> 
> > Just put my square filed PS3 chain on my 355. Holy balls! This thing curb stomps my 360t that I thought cut well. QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## bootboy (Jun 29, 2013)

rms61moparman said:


> millbilly said:
> 
> 
> > Hard Knocks University
> ...


----------



## millbilly (Jun 29, 2013)

Your saying it gives you a better edge than a round file?


----------



## rms61moparman (Jun 29, 2013)

millbilly said:


> Your saying it gives you a better edge than a round file?






No, but the square filed is more conducive to cutting wood really fast than the round.


Mike


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## millbilly (Jun 29, 2013)

I know were getting off track but who sells the file?


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## bootboy (Jun 29, 2013)

Baileys


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## Hddnis (Jun 29, 2013)

millbilly said:


> I know were getting off track but who sells the file?





Lots of places sell them. I get them at local saw shops. I also often order them from baileysonline.com. Several styles to choose from, I like the flat ones myself.




Mr. HE


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## bootboy (Jul 3, 2013)

Having now run the 355 AND the 201. I honestly have to say I prefer the echo. Spools up faster and has a better top end. The 201 has a slightly better low end but its not worth the extra weight. The echo feels more comfortable and nimble in the hand. The 201 feels solid but a tad heavy. The 355 is the easiest starting saw I've ever touched. No joke, I can start it with only one pop or about 8" of starter cord. 

Compared to echo's other top handles, the thing is in a different league. It is a very well thought out saw, the attention to detail shows. The fasteners have all been upgraded. The plastics are higher grade, and the fit and finish is much better. It's a night and day comparison between it and the 360 I just sold. This little saw is the real deal. I haven't done a great volume of cutting yet, but thus far, I'm extremely satisfied with my purchase and would recommend this saw to anyone. I've had to richer the high end a little as is usual for echo saws. Just a tickle on that H jet and its four stroking out of and cleaning up quickly, in the cut. Using this little guy is believing.


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## MCW (Jul 3, 2013)

bootboy said:


> Having now run the 355 AND the 201. I honestly have to say I prefer the echo. Spools up faster and has a better top end. The 201 has a slightly better low end but its not worth the extra weight. The echo feels more comfortable and nimble in the hand. The 201 feels solid but a tad heavy. The 355 is the easiest starting saw I've ever touched. No joke, I can start it with only one pop or about 8" of starter cord.
> 
> Compared to echo's other top handles, the thing is in a different league. It is a very well thought out saw, the attention to detail shows. The fasteners have all been upgraded. The plastics are higher grade, and the fit and finish is much better. It's a night and day comparison between it and the 360 I just sold. This little saw is the real deal. I haven't done a great volume of cutting yet, but thus far, I'm extremely satisfied with my purchase and would recommend this saw to anyone. I've had to richer the high end a little as is usual for echo saws. Just a tickle on that H jet and its four stroking out of and cleaning up quickly, in the cut. Using this little guy is believing.



Good info  Thanks. That means it will also run with a stock 200T that still has the spark arrestor fitted too as I owned both a 201T and 200T and out of the box there was nothing in it, maybe a little bit of extra low end torque with the 201.


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## mountainlake (Jul 3, 2013)

After watching the vid of the hyped up 200t 36cc vs a Echo 330t 33cc I'd guess if one saw might cut a second faster it's no big deal. Steve


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## MCW (Jul 3, 2013)

mountainlake said:


> After watching the vid of the hyped up 200t 36cc vs a Echo 330t 33cc I'd guess if one saw might cut a second faster it's no big deal. Steve



I agree but sometimes outright cut speed is actually less important than having a snappy throttle response. It depends a lot on how the saws gets used I suppose.


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## bootboy (Jul 3, 2013)

Yeah, she's a hot little saw. Probably +1500 rpm over the 360 and four stroking. I don't have a tach, that's going by sound but I've tuned a saw or two by ear. The top end is great. A wicked sharp chain lets this saw's top end shine. I'm running square filed PS3 and it shreds. The throttle response is remarkable. Everyone I know who has used the 201 says that to be its best out of the box, it takes a few minutes to get it warmed up. The 355 can charge right out of the gait. Snappy. I've really only done moderate cutting with it. I need to use it on an all day removal to see its strengths and weaknesses, really put it through its paces. I don't know that there is much to be gained by way of a muffler mod either. The muffler is empty as is. The spark screen area is huge compared to the outlet and likely doesn't restrict flow to any appreciable degree. It's not a really thirsty saw either. Easy on the fuel for sure. The saw isn't pretentious, it doesn't come across as snobbish because of its bloodlines or the name on the side. It's an honest piece of equipment that wants to work.
These are my first impressions, but based in my experiences with other echo equipment, not much will change in the way I feel about this saw.

Saving $200 over the 201 is well worth it in my opinion. Take that $200 and buy something nice I think echo has nailed it with this little saw.


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 3, 2013)

I love mine i've had it since March and use it everyday and its taken some abuse but its still holding up great. It gets better when its broke in. I totally agree with you Echo nailed it with this saw although this is the first Echo i've ever owned i can't compare it to other models but running 020T,200T and 201T this saw is right there with them. I think the palm rest was a genius idea.


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## ThistleIA (Jul 3, 2013)

I've owned a 280E top handle since Dec. '81.Tough wee beast,its taken all kinds of abuse dropped 20 ft once & started right up etc.Barely 8 lbs & only 8500RPM but it chews through the toughest White Oak or Hickory & just keeps on going.No chain brake or even hand guard.

If it ever dies I'll be leaning towards one of those new Echo's as a replacement.Most likely the 355-T or similar model.


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## mountainlake (Jul 3, 2013)

MCW said:


> I agree but sometimes outright cut speed is actually less important than having a snappy throttle response. It depends a lot on how the saws gets used I suppose.



Just got done putting a 360t together and I can see where you claim sluggish throttle and not the best power WITH a stock muff, once opened up it snaps your hand good and has about twice as much power, even more grunt after I opened the high up a tad. As usual with Echo saws, I only have 1 not muff modded and it's a dog compared to the same model muff modded. Steve


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## Butterz (Jul 18, 2013)

I'm picking up my first 355t today  I've run a number of saws...I'll let you guys know how I like her!


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## Treespotter (Jul 19, 2013)

Take loads of pictures and let us know how it 'rides'.


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## Butterz (Jul 19, 2013)

So I got it yesterday...the balance and feel of it is much better than I anticipated...it feels almost as good as my 271t even with the 16" bar! I'll be doing a lot of cutting in the near future with it...I'll let you guys know what she's got


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## SpaceGhostRider (Aug 22, 2013)

*worth a buy?*

Hi guys, first posting here---got hooked on this thread after reading all the 2 cycle theory about standing waves in expansion chambers, and reed valves, and H1 500 resto's going on, lol--I'm currently running a 30 year old Poulan hand me down, it belonged to dad in law before he passed. I keep picking up a top handle Echo at the local Ace and love the way (or WEIGH!) it feels compared to my old saw. Budget will suffer from buying one--I use a saw about 8-10 times a year--waddya think? better to buy another el cheapo or wait (WEIGHT!) until I can afford one like this? Thanks for all the postings btw, this seems like a pretty cool site :msp_thumbup:


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## rms61moparman (Aug 22, 2013)

SpaceGhostRider said:


> Hi guys, first posting here---got hooked on this thread after reading all the 2 cycle theory about standing waves in expansion chambers, and reed valves, and H1 500 resto's going on, lol--I'm currently running a 30 year old Poulan hand me down, it belonged to dad in law before he passed. I keep picking up a top handle Echo at the local Ace and love the way (or WEIGH!) it feels compared to my old saw. Budget will suffer from buying one--I use a saw about 8-10 times a year--waddya think? better to buy another el cheapo or wait (WEIGHT!) until I can afford one like this? Thanks for all the postings btw, this seems like a pretty cool site :msp_thumbup:



What is the extent of your use during those 8 to 10 times?

If you trim a limb 8 to 10 times that is one thing.
If you go out and cut a cord of firewood 8 to 10 times that is a different matter entirely.

As can be evidenced by the Poulan you're using now, buying the best quality tools you can afford and properly caring for them is never a bad thing.
My main reason for posting this is to tell you that Echo as well as others make several price points in top handle saws. It really wouldn't have to be this one (if it is outside your budget) to do you a great job.
Also, don't pay any attention to the posts that are undoubtedly coming that you, as a new user shouldn't be using a top handle saw on the ground. That contention is malarkey. They are no more dangerous than any other spinning cutting instrument. They are just easier to use with one hand and it is possible to get the saw into the other. 
I have several top handle saws and I wouldn't be without one again for love nor money.


Mike


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 23, 2013)

Cedar Row said:


> Can't wait 'till someone buys, tries and comments on the 355T. I'm just wondering about the 355, the 360T I just bought will probably do what I want it to do. But these discussions are always entertaining.



I may be the one to do it. I was given an old homey XL that needs a bunch of tender care. Been meaning to call the Echo dealer to talk about it. Local Stihl dealer won't sell top-handle to anyone but a pro.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 24, 2013)

turnkey4099 said:


> I may be the one to do it. I was given an old homey XL that needs a bunch of tender care. Been meaning to call the Echo dealer to talk about it. Local Stihl dealer won't sell top-handle to anyone but a pro.
> 
> Harry K



Nope, not gonna be me . I checked with Echo dealer this morning. Cheapest they had was about $390. Took a run to Potlatch, Id and picked up a MS192T ($339) 

Harry K


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## mountainlake (Aug 24, 2013)

$339 is a lot for a gutless cheap saw as you will find out. Steve


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## turnkey4099 (Aug 25, 2013)

mountainlake said:


> $339 is a lot for a gutless cheap saw as you will find out. Steve



As a replacement for a Homey XL that saw its best days years ago...

Harry K


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## SpaceGhostRider (Aug 25, 2013)

*reply to Mike*



rms61moparman said:


> What is the extent of your use during those 8 to 10 times?
> 
> If you trim a limb 8 to 10 times that is one thing.
> If you go out and cut a cord of firewood 8 to 10 times that is a different matter entirely.
> ...



Hey Mike, thanks for the reply and explanation--I'm a sporadic user for sure, lots of little jobs like cutting privet on the creekside. I did cut up a BIG Ash recently and rented a Makita from Home Depot--it was a hoss. had to push a compression release before I could start the bugger. was worth the rental. the reason I'm looking at the top handle saws is the lighter weight and better balance they seem to have--compared to the cheapies I have inspected. I will say I have very good luck with all the equipment I buy, I used to work rental, so I like to take care of my mechanical critters---they are important friends to me!


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## zogger (Aug 25, 2013)

SpaceGhostRider said:


> Hey Mike, thanks for the reply and explanation--I'm a sporadic user for sure, lots of little jobs like cutting privet on the creekside. I did cut up a BIG Ash recently and rented a Makita from Home Depot--it was a hoss. had to push a compression release before I could start the bugger. was worth the rental. the reason I'm looking at the top handle saws is the lighter weight and better balance they seem to have--compared to the cheapies I have inspected. I will say I have very good luck with all the equipment I buy, I used to work rental, so I like to take care of my mechanical critters---they are important friends to me!



Hey, listen up man! One of the best saw deals out there that guys get is those home depot makita rental saws! Go back there and tell them you want it when it goes on sale. Talk to the manager or head rental guy, perhaps a little lunch money contribution in advance, see? Or a downpayment, anything to show them you are serious about it.

I believe after around 20 rentals or so they sell them off less than 1/2 normal retail.


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## millbilly (Aug 25, 2013)

rms61moparman said:


> They are just easier to use with one hand and it is possible to get the saw into the other.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



I love it! The worlds largest tree company's Forman's manual states that chainsaws shall not be operated with one hand. I want to point out that the word they use is shall not should. 

OSHA also agrees with that company they state, Keep your hands on the saw's handles, and maintain secure footing while operating the saw. Note that it says hands, not hand.

Silly me for having concerns about someone with limited training and experience, operating a saw with one hand.


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## heyduke (Aug 25, 2013)

millbilly said:


> I love it! The worlds largest tree company's Forman's manual states that chainsaws shall not be operated with one hand. I want to point out that the word they use is shall not should.
> 
> OSHA also agrees with that company they state, Keep your hands on the saw's handles, and maintain secure footing while operating the saw. Note that it says hands, not hand.
> 
> Silly me for having concerns about someone with limited training and experience, operating a saw with one hand.



Thanks for quoting the fat-assed bureaucrats for us but, pardon me, what am I supposed to hold on to the tree with, my tail. or should I just learn to levitate? Ever been 60 feet up on a windy day? You got one thing right, "SIlly me."


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## millbilly (Aug 26, 2013)

ever heard of a pole saw?


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## MCW (Aug 26, 2013)

millbilly said:


> Silly me for having concerns about someone with limited training and experience, operating a saw with one hand.



Actually you have concerns with anybody who's not a qualified arborist even touching a top handled saw and even called me lazy for using one at ground level before even asking under what conditions it was being used.


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## Hddnis (Aug 26, 2013)

Anybody that pretends a top handle saw is never to be operated with one hand is not a real arborist.



Mr. HE


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## hoeyrd2110 (Aug 26, 2013)

i use my top handles to juggle so idk what you guys are talking about

i keep my little top handles around for light trimming and for the woman cause there light and she likes "her" saw (micro 2000). a saw is a saw next thing you know people will be getting pissed because everyone will be running bottom handled saws on the ground instead of upside down in a treeotstir:


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## rms61moparman (Aug 26, 2013)

millbilly said:


> I love it! The worlds largest tree company's Forman's manual states that chainsaws shall not be operated with one hand. I want to point out that the word they use is shall not should.
> 
> OSHA also agrees with that company they state, Keep your hands on the saw's handles, and maintain secure footing while operating the saw. Note that it says hands, not hand.
> 
> Silly me for having concerns about someone with limited training and experience, operating a saw with one hand.





What is your point?
Did I ever say that they should be used one handed?
I use mine one handed but do not advocate others use theirs in this manner.
I have concerns about ANYONE with limited knowledge and experience using ANY power saw. They can ALL bite you if you don't know and watch what you are doing. 

The O.S.H.A. regulations as well as the laws of most states require that BOTH hands be on the steering wheel at all times. Do you follow that?
Makes it pretty difficult to shift doesn't it?


Mike


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## Treespotter (Mar 15, 2014)

Is this the homeowner slash firewood part of Arboristsite where we bicker about one handling a tophandle chainsaw that was designed to be maneuvered in tight spaces while holding onto by both hands? 
Last time I checked this was the topic about the 'new' Echo 355 chainsaw. 
Any relevant owner input please! These machines are still not on sale here so every story is welcome. 

Wolter


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## Butterz (Mar 15, 2014)

Love the performance of my 355t, but the darn chain brake mechanism is faulty...I've been through 3 so far...whereas my 271t's chain brake is rock solid.


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## PainAndMurphy (Mar 15, 2014)

Butterz said:


> Love the performance of my 355t, but the darn chain brake mechanism is faulty...I've been through 3 so far...whereas my 271t's chain brake is rock solid.



Does the 355T's brake assembly resemble to the 360T's?
And I do refer to it's guts.. the band, the linkage/s, leverage/s, spring/s etc'.. nevermind the handle and the rest..
Jo.


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## Butterz (Mar 15, 2014)

I'm not sure, I've never used a 360T.


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## PainAndMurphy (Mar 15, 2014)

Butterz said:


> I'm not sure, I've never used a 360T.




All I know is that back when I had mine, I found on this very site, someone who knew just right how to discover that by removing a tiny plastic spacer from where the spring gets the tension - that eases the whole mechanism to work like a proper brake you have on any proper saw.. dunnow about the 355T though..

Jo.


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## Butterz (Mar 17, 2014)

^^^intersting! I'm gonna check into this..thanks dude!


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## PainAndMurphy (Mar 18, 2014)

Butterz said:


> ^^^intersting! I'm gonna check into this..thanks dude!



*take a pic before you take it apart..* just in case you wanna put it back to the way it was.. BTW - I really awe that guy who found it.. such a tiny a** mod, but SUPER-effective!!


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## OBX Koastie (Sep 29, 2015)

For any members who are interested, Echo just lowered the price of the CS-355T with 16" bar to $359.99 and it comes with a "free" carrying casae. When you figure that a 201 goes for $649.95 plus tax (692.20 in VA), my son who cracked the fuel tank on the one Brad modified for him went with the Echo. Plus he gets a one year warranty versus Stihl's 90 day! No idea how long this price will last, but it is on the Echo website and my dealer in Yorktown said they got an email advising them of the price reduction. Guess Echo is really going after the tree climbers. 

The only downside to the saw that I can see is the fact it comes with some Echo bar that while made by Oregon is a *astard size...57 drive links and has a real narrow tip designed for low kickback. So we will be upgrading to an Oregon 56 drive link bar.

Just thought I would pass this along.


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## millbilly (Sep 29, 2015)

heyduke said:


> Thanks for quoting the fat-assed bureaucrats for us but, pardon me, what am I supposed to hold on to the tree with, my tail. or should I just learn to levitate? Ever been 60 feet up on a windy day? You got one thing right, "SIlly me."


I'm glad some one posted to this thread, or I might have missed this comment. Are you saying the highest you have been up in a tree is 60 ft.? Position, position, position. experience and skill my friend.


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## bikemike (Sep 29, 2015)

Butterz said:


> Love the performance of my 355t, but the darn chain brake mechanism is faulty...I've been through 3 so far...whereas my 271t's chain brake is rock solid.


There is a white plastic spacer you can remove between the spring and linkage. It will lighten up the pull to get the brake off. I have done it to my saw years ago and had no problems with it


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## millbilly (Sep 29, 2015)

MCW said:


> Actually you have concerns with anybody who's not a qualified arborist even touching a top handled saw and even called me lazy for using one at ground level before even asking under what conditions it was being used.


I still stand by my statement. If you think you can buck up limbs with a top handled saw faster, more efficient and safer than a rear handled saw i doubt your credibility.


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## bikemike (Sep 29, 2015)

bootboy said:


> Yeah, she's a hot little saw. Probably +1500 rpm over the 360 and four stroking. I don't have a tach, that's going by sound but I've tuned a saw or two by ear. The top end is great. A wicked sharp chain lets this saw's top end shine. I'm running square filed PS3 and it shreds. The throttle response is remarkable. Everyone I know who has used the 201 says that to be its best out of the box, it takes a few minutes to get it warmed up. The 355 can charge right out of the gait. Snappy. I've really only done moderate cutting with it. I need to use it on an all day removal to see its strengths and weaknesses, really put it through its paces. I don't know that there is much to be gained by way of a muffler mod either. The muffler is empty as is. The spark screen area is huge compared to the outlet and likely doesn't restrict flow to any appreciable degree. It's not a really thirsty saw either. Easy on the fuel for sure. The saw isn't pretentious, it doesn't come across as snobbish because of its bloodlines or the name on the side. It's an honest piece of equipment that wants to work.
> These are my first impressions, but based in my experiences with other echo equipment, not much will change in the way I feel about this saw.
> 
> Saving $200 over the 201 is well worth it in my opinion. Take that $200 and buy something nice I think echo has nailed it with this little saw.


Really can't beat jap motors they were built to be pissedan reed and worked.


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## bikemike (Sep 29, 2015)

Sorry auto correct sucks. Cant beat the jap engines. They love to be piss reved and worked the snot out of.


bikemike said:


> Really can't beat jap motors they were built to be pissedan reed and worked.


Typical


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## stubnail67 (Sep 29, 2015)

does the cs 330t have any chain break issues?


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## heyduke (Sep 29, 2015)

millbilly said:


> I'm glad some one posted to this thread, or I might have missed this comment. Are you saying the highest you have been up in a tree is 60 ft.? Position, position, position. experience and skill my friend.



mill bill-

oh yeah, i've been higher than 60 feet but not where i'm living now. the only trees that high around here here are the old growth ponderosas and we let the lightning trim them. i was only responding to an hombre who didn't know much about climbing, trimming or arborist's saws but was tellling the us how to do it. i should have bit my tongue and poured another cup of coffee. where i'm living now the most hazardous climbs, for me, are the fremont cottonwoods. they can reach over 60' and usually lack any vertical stem for a tie-in. and they have a nasty habit of biting the guy with the job. i don't know why i called out 60' as significant. i always consider the space between 10' and 30' the most dangerous. and to tell you the truth i usually enjoy a little wind, keeps you cool and the motion is pleasant.

and incidentally, i posted that comment more than two years ago, aug. 2013. you may be the only hombre who ever read it. i gotta get back to juggling my two top handles and mr. peg, the three legged cat.


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## bikemike (Sep 29, 2015)

They do recommend that you use both hands but that's not always the case that you can have doth hands on a saw when you need to swing tips down for a toss to prevent damageto property where rigging ropes will not be of any use. But yes all the climbers on here do use doth hand when they can cause it is safer for 2 handed operation


millbilly said:


> I love it! The worlds largest tree company's Forman's manual states that chainsaws shall not be operated with one hand. I want to point out that the word they use is shall not should.
> 
> OSHA also agrees with that company they state, Keep your hands on the saw's handles, and maintain secure footing while operating the saw. Note that it says hands, not hand.
> 
> Silly me for having concerns about someone with limited training and experience, operating a saw with one hand.


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## bikemike (Sep 29, 2015)

stubnail67 said:


> does the cs 330t have any chain break issues?


Yeah they are tough to draw back to release the chain brake the 330 360 355 all have the same issue very simple fix. My old 360t is a work horse and I was not impressed with the chain brake being hard to draw back. Me I am a echo top handle guy but I have been considering a 201 for the construction of the build or the original chit rippin 200t I like magnesium cases. But I can't disrespect echo they have come along ways from the 340 341 3400 top handle with performance.


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## heyduke (Sep 29, 2015)

OBX Koastie said:


> For any members who are interested, Echo just lowered the price of the CS-355T with 16" bar to $359.99 and it comes with a "free" carrying casae. When you figure that a 201 goes for $649.95 plus tax (692.20 in VA), my son who cracked the fuel tank on the one Brad modified for him went with the Echo. Plus he gets a one year warranty versus Stihl's 90 day! No idea how long this price will last, but it is on the Echo website and my dealer in Yorktown said they got an email advising them of the price reduction. Guess Echo is really going after the tree climbers.
> 
> The only downside to the saw that I can see is the fact it comes with some Echo bar that while made by Oregon is a *astard size...57 drive links and has a real narrow tip designed for low kickback. So we will be upgrading to an Oregon 56 drive link bar.
> 
> Just thought I would pass this along.



i don't own a 355t yet, might never need one, but i do have three echo 360t's and a stihl 020t (the one that is the same as a 200t). for some reason, the stihl always gets left in the shop. i like the echo's ergonomics better. i have a stack of nearly new fourteen inch bars that have been replaced by 12 inch bars (45dl). even though i'm tempting fate, risking life and limb i often use them on the ground, not just in the tree. i've even been known to operate them with one hand.


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## zwoehr (Sep 29, 2015)

OBX Koastie said:


> For any members who are interested, Echo just lowered the price of the CS-355T with 16" bar to $359.99 and it comes with a "free" carrying casae. When you figure that a 201 goes for $649.95 plus tax (692.20 in VA), my son who cracked the fuel tank on the one Brad modified for him went with the Echo. Plus he gets a one year warranty versus Stihl's 90 day! No idea how long this price will last, but it is on the Echo website and my dealer in Yorktown said they got an email advising them of the price reduction./QUOTE]
> 
> No wonder Home depot had them on clearance a month ago. They must have known in advance. I thought I had missed out because when I decided to finally buy one they were sold out.
> 
> Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk


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## bikemike (Sep 29, 2015)

Yeah I don't know why ppl dog the 360t I have many hours on mine tree climbing brush clearing lot clears and mine cuts everything I put a 14" bar to. 20 inch pine ain't nothing for the saw to handle. Now a 192 I won't pay 50 bucks for those saw I think are total junk I'd rather have the stihl 150 over a 192


heyduke said:


> i don't own a 355t yet, might never need one, but i do have three echo 360t's and a stihl 020t (the one that is the same as a 200t). for some reason, the stihl always gets left in the shop. i like the echo's ergonomics better. i have a stack of nearly new fourteen inch bars that have been replaced by 12 inch bars (45dl). even though i'm tempting fate, risking life and limb i often use them on the ground, not just in the tree. i've even been known to operate them with one hand.


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## MCW (Oct 11, 2015)

millbilly said:


> I still stand by my statement. If you think you can buck up limbs with a top handled saw faster, more efficient and safer than a rear handled saw i doubt your credibility.



Who mentioned bucking up limbs? Ground based fruit tree pruning is where a lot of top handle saws are used. No bucking up logs there I'm afraid. Free hand removes cut limbs. Pays to think outside the arboricultural box sometimes methinks.


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## bikemike (Oct 13, 2015)

heyduke said:


> i don't own a 355t yet, might never need one, but i do have three echo 360t's and a stihl 020t (the one that is the same as a 200t). for some reason, the stihl always gets left in the shop. i like the echo's ergonomics better. i have a stack of nearly new fourteen inch bars that have been replaced by 12 inch bars (45dl). even though i'm tempting fate, risking life and limb i often use them on the ground, not just in the tree. i've even been known to operate them with one hand.


Me too I will slice n dice delimb buck what ever it will get through with a 14". Just yesterday I put a low pro picco on it and put the screen back in. Yeah I don't like running the screen now that the intake end of my saw is opened up. So I'm gunna take it our and deal with the extra noise. And with all ur 360t are the all gutted out for the exhaust or do you still have a stock saw too?


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## heyduke (Oct 14, 2015)

bikemike said:


> Me too I will slice n dice delimb buck what ever it will get through with a 14". Just yesterday I put a low pro picco on it and put the screen back in. Yeah I don't like running the screen now that the intake end of my saw is opened up. So I'm gunna take it our and deal with the extra noise. And with all ur 360t are the all gutted out for the exhaust or do you still have a stock saw too?



interesting question. you may not like the answer. i have two 360t's with modified intakes and mufflers. i recently bought another with light use, that is blueprint stock. after careful carb tuning it keeps up with the modified saws. all three out perform the stihl in timed cuts. i know that won't sound right to the many stihlifarians worshiping on this site but... the stihl is like a lot of tree guys i know. they sound loud and aggressive but that isn't what cuts wood. the stihl is a good saw but way over rated and the echos will outlast them by a factor of ten.


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## bikemike (Oct 14, 2015)

It is hard to beat a jap engine. They are so well built. The guys I work with all run 201t saws. One is muffler mod dedicated and the new 201t is stock . I'm the only echo owner and they are always asking for a bigger saw when they reach the 12 inch mark. Me I will run my saw and bury the bar and it keeps on cuttin.


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## CoreyB (Oct 14, 2015)

That doesn't sound quite right. I am always cutting 12 in plus stuff with my 192. Just because I am to lazy to pick up a bigger saw but I would think a 201 would rip every thing 15 in and under.
However this has no bearing on the echo's


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## KenJax Tree (Oct 14, 2015)

I can bury my 200's and 201 with a 16" bar and barely lose RPM. But whatever i don't need to defend saws that 99% of tree services run. [emoji3]

My 192T is good up to 12" with the timing advance and muffler mod.


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## DLEngele (Jan 1, 2017)

Took the place of my poor 540xp over a year ago. I say it is close. DEFINITELY NOT as much power, but a fine running saw. If mine is warm it starts first pull. Cuts great, starts, not bad ergonomics. The price...."Bang for the buck" is outstanding imo. Just my throw on it.


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