# Just how much can the (GRCS) Lift???



## JTinaTree (Dec 18, 2006)

This is for all of you GRCS owners, got my dvd from Sherrills and have been watching it. This tool is truly amazing I plan to buy one in a month or two.The ad states lift up to 2000lbs in the 12:1 ratio counterclockwise on the winch. My question is what limits this number, will the winch get too hard to turn by hand?
Will the winch see faliure if more weight is tryed to lift? In the dvd he lifts a whole stem up like it was nothing, to me it looked like he could have easily lifted a whole lot more..I would like to know just how much you have lifted with this device...Thank You


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## kkottemann (Dec 18, 2006)

I personally do not have one but have used one recently on a fallen hackberry (sugarberry) in a back yard. The tree was uprooted and fell across the yard landing on the house. After we brushed out the tree on the roof the tree was still laying heavy on the house. luckily the neighbor had a hackberry still standing right next to it. We rigged a block about 35 feet up and ran 3/4 samson through the block to the middle of the tree laying on the house. we lifited the tree up about 6 inches off the house so we could cut. once it was off the house we continued to cut until we reached the tie point. Next we let off the slack and the tree came slamming to the ground. Now how much did the tree weigh???I cannot be sure, but it was about 18 inches in diameter at the stump and mabe 45 feet tall to the top branch. the tree was uprooted in october and probably lost plenty of moisture, but was still alive. It was heavy enough for me to be damm impressed with the rigging device. I would not hesitate to use it on any lateral for lifting or lowering. Just use good rope and a good block, both rated for extreme weight capacity.


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## daveyclimber (Dec 19, 2006)

I thought these were a 44:1 ratio. I remember seeing these in baileys years ago with a picture of the device lifting a F-350 crewcab off the ground. Thats about 7,000 lbs I assume


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## treeman82 (Dec 19, 2006)

As far as actual lifting goes, I wouldn't know. I mean a while back I lifted a 12"+ diameter sugar maple off the ground from an elm tree and set it down right where I wanted it. That tree was a SOLID 40' tall with a crown full of leaves. 

As for pulling though, I've pulled over some MAJOR back leaners just using the winch in low gear and a couple of pulleys.


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## newb (Dec 19, 2006)

Ive had mine for over a year now (488) , and the failure wont be in the GRCS but in your rigging points and ropes. I believe the #2000 is for liability reasons. I will tell you get off the fence and buy it, you will never look back. Pete


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## JTinaTree (Dec 20, 2006)

newb said:


> Ive had mine for over a year now (488) , and the failure wont be in the GRCS but in your rigging points and ropes. I believe the #2000 is for liability reasons. I will tell you get off the fence and buy it, you will never look back. Pete



So the winch will lift more from what I understand? But the weak link is the other tree you are hanging your block from? So I guess if I have the block way up in some white oaks around here it would be smart to use a 3in ratchet strap to hold the rigging point to another leader up in the tree. The main reason I would like to have one is because I climb everthing right now and it would be a great tool for lifting branches away from rooftops...It would save me alot of time not having to limb walk as much...


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 20, 2006)

I just got mine last week. It is one handy little son of a gun. It is rated at 2000 lbs., and Good is a fellow who has done much work on this puppy. Anyone can go beyond that limit, of course, but why bother? On 99% of your jobs, if you just piece out a bit instead of slamming down the huge stuff, you'll be fine. I think the DVD segment where he takes off half of a tree is a bit extreme. Obviously he shows that it's doable, but ya gotta trust the tree you're rigging to. If I'm taking down a big one with co-dominant leaders, I tend to be conservative on estimating the weight either one will bear. As it's been stated in here more than a few times, the fellow who literally wrote the book on rigging, Peter Donzelli, was killed when the tree beneath him failed as the piece he cut was being lowered. Take it easy, don't slam those big ones, and you'll be fine.


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## northernmover (Dec 20, 2006)

This will work great for what you are looking to do with it. We use ours for the same purpose and have yet to find it's limitations. You will wonder why you didn't get one before and will never look at a tree the same way again with this in your truck. One word of advice....get the visor plate for mounting it on removals, this is a VERY heavy piece of equipment and is hard to mount by yourself.


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## JTinaTree (Dec 20, 2006)

I saw that visor plate and I don't plan on buying the GRCS without it. I am more curious than anything about lifting weights, I know the device is not ment to replace the job of a crane on heavy stuff. I am a pretty cautious in my jobs if I have any doubts I will rope it down. If I thought a limb even weighted close to 2000lbs I still would cut into a smaller size before lifting it with the GRCS at least until I got comfortable with operating it.

We have lots of White,Red,Willow Oaks around here and there is always the scared homeowner who wants the limbs away from the roof of there house. As I siad earlier the GRCS could cut my job time in half for this kind of work. One last question Did anyone get one for less than the Retail price?? $2495.00


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## daveyclimber (Dec 20, 2006)

I just seen this in the Wespur catalog today and it says the two speed winch is a 22.1 and 44.1 ratios and can lift 3k


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## rbtree (Dec 24, 2006)

Ther new ones sport a chrome Harken 46-1 winch. Here's yesterday's tree. We currently have it supported with 2 GRCS's, and are adding a third today if needed (as one of our anchor trees is only an 11" dbh dogwood. We have lightened the weight resting on the house, but have been unable to lift it off. The last bit was done in the dark, so we'll resume this morning. But it is resting at a 45 degree angle, and likely weighs 10,000 lb....it's about 32" dbh. The third anchor tree may have to be a fir a good 200 feet away in another yard, which will require my as yet uncut spool of 1/2 inch Spectra, near zero stretch and 24,000 tensile. 

We'll cut it off the stump and it should come right over...but that maneuver might shock load the dogwood out of the ground....and that would not be a good thing....:help: 

Reference my storm thread for more pics.


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## rbtree (Dec 24, 2006)

JTinaTree said:


> I saw that visor plate and I don't plan on buying the GRCS without it. I am more curious than anything about lifting weights, I know the device is not ment to replace the job of a crane on heavy stuff. I am a pretty cautious in my jobs if I have any doubts I will rope it down. If I thought a limb even weighted close to 2000lbs I still would cut into a smaller size before lifting it with the GRCS at least until I got comfortable with operating it.
> 
> We have lots of White,Red,Willow Oaks around here and there is always the scared homeowner who wants the limbs away from the roof of there house. As I siad earlier the GRCS could cut my job time in half for this kind of work. One last question Did anyone get one for less than the Retail price?? $2495.00



Heh....i've done boatloads of jobs with it where it and our expertise negate the need for a crane. Two trees the last two days and $12,000 raked in, and none of it went to pay the crane fees!!!!!! Of course these trees required two devices, and we're adding a third on the oak today.


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## jmack (Dec 24, 2006)

JTinaTree said:


> I saw that visor plate and I don't plan on buying the GRCS without it. I am more curious than anything about lifting weights, I know the device is not ment to replace the job of a crane on heavy stuff. I am a pretty cautious in my jobs if I have any doubts I will rope it down. If I thought a limb even weighted close to 2000lbs I still would cut into a smaller size before lifting it with the GRCS at least until I got comfortable with operating it.
> 
> We have lots of White,Red,Willow Oaks around here and there is always the scared homeowner who wants the limbs away from the roof of there house. As I siad earlier the GRCS could cut my job time in half for this kind of work. One last question Did anyone get one for less than the Retail price?? $2495.00


23 wesspur


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## jmack (Dec 24, 2006)

jmack said:


> 23 wesspur


o yea go for it build your rigging around it , wish i had j


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## (WLL) (Dec 25, 2006)

*1 supirior pice of equipment*



JTinaTree said:


> This is for all of you GRCS owners, got my dvd from Sherrills and have been watching it. This tool is truly amazing I plan to buy one in a month or two.The ad states lift up to 2000lbs in the 12:1 ratio counterclockwise on the winch. My question is what limits this number, will the winch get too hard to turn by hand?
> Will the winch see faliure if more weight is tryed to lift? In the dvd he lifts a whole stem up like it was nothing, to me it looked like he could have easily lifted a whole lot more..I would like to know just how much you have lifted with this device...Thank You


if you try to lift more than tool can handle the rope just sits there while the tool spins ithink every tree company should invest in one of these tools and they can lift far more than any 1or2 men can man this tool is sweet and can be fabricated instead of forking out the dough. the most expensive parts are the winch and handle. this tool should of bin out 20 yrs ago and i dont understand why i have 3 of these and would not give up for any reason   i sleep with this thing lol


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 26, 2006)

The reduction gear is 12:1, the lever of the handles adds the further MA to get the 44:1.

If you do a lot of removals, the visor is a very good investment. If you have a high torque drill and do a lot of city work, then the drill adaptor is very handy for lifting long limbs and forwarding brush up slopes.

I know some people who have brokes winches under extream loads. Many here will remember Frans and Jerry doing comp's on GRCS vs. the Hobbs.

Think of the 2000# as the WLL for dynamic forces when blocking big wood out. Know the fall factor of the load, or the cycles to failure will get you after a wile.

Everyone who has used it has picked out much heavier loads.

As you work with it you learn to use different ropes, high streach for dynamic loads, low streach for gentle picks.

Backing up a rig point is allways a good idea, one way you can do this is to use several blocks in the tree so you are distibuting the load between stems.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 26, 2006)

(WLL) said:


> if you try to lift more than tool can handle the rope just sits there while the tool spins ...



When this happens, try loosening up the coil around the winch drum so that it will push up onto the back slope. this way you can usually get an extra wrap or two in to give the needed friction.

On the off occasion where you've mistaken the estimated load, having a third man hold the rope to tail it will usually help get things started.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 26, 2006)

Nobody knows the line pull this tool will generate? 
There was a promotinal picture that showed a pick up truck with the back end up in the air, so I'd guess it could lift at least 800 or a 1000 pounds. I never saw the one lifting a whole truck, I'd like to know how they did that.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 26, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> so I'd guess it could lift at least 800 or a 1000 pounds.



I've read somewhere that an average person can move 75% of their weight standing. So 200# person =150.

With 12:1 MA that would be 1800# optimal output.

IF you have a high tie on a leader that you are hinging up, you will not put the whole load onto the system untill the load comes off the hinge. So system output is only one concideration you need to make when operating the winch (I know you know, I just needed to bring it upopcorn: ).


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 26, 2006)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I've read somewhere that an average person can move 75% of their weight standing. So 200# person =150.


That applys to pulling on a rope, turning a crank may be higher or lower, I dunno.


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## JTinaTree (Dec 26, 2006)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> The reduction gear is 12:1, the lever of the handles adds the further MA to get the 44:1.
> 
> If you do a lot of removals, the visor is a very good investment. If you have a high torque drill and do a lot of city work, then the drill adaptor is very handy for lifting long limbs and forwarding brush up slopes.
> 
> ...



I wondered how they got the 44:1 in some of the ads for the GRCS.. So they fiqured in the length of the handle. The newer winches are supposed to have a rough surface for the drum to keep the rope from slipping. And Sherrills claims the new winch also has more power in there 06 catolog, I would like to know if they went with a different model Harken for 06/07? Anyway can't wait to buy one and see for myself it's capabilities.


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## coydog (Dec 26, 2006)

(WLL) said:


> i have 3 of these and would not give up for any reason   i sleep with this thing lol


you own 3 grcs?


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## JTinaTree (Dec 26, 2006)

coydog said:


> you own 3 grcs?



I thought the same thing that's almost 10 grand in grcs's. We know who is making the money on this site..


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 26, 2006)

JTinaTree said:


> The newer winches are supposed to have a rough surface for the drum to keep the rope from slipping.


I wonder what that does to ropes when you let them run...


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## JTinaTree (Dec 28, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> I wonder what that does to ropes when you let them run...



Don't know exactly how rough the surface is maybe just cross hatched with a fine grit.. May be someone who has bought one recently will chime in and show us??


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 28, 2006)

It's just a coarser dimpling then the older drums have.

My understanding of the MA of the newer modles is that it has a bigger drum and gear set.


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## ozy365 (Dec 28, 2006)

the texture is barely enough to take the shine out of the drum. The ropes don't slip on it so I don't think it will eat your rope too bad. The wear and tear on the rope is in the lift.

Butt tie the piece you are liting above the hinge back to the tree to a porty and cut the hinge a little more. Pulling through the hinge is usually more work on the winch than the actual weight seems to be. Butt tying limits the surprise of a hinge failing during the lift. If you louse up the tip tie too close to the center of gravity on the limb, the porty tie in keeps the but out off your face.

Watch the lift you put on the limb...I've had a couple pieces jump up as the hinge is released and the spar returns to upright. One raised almost 18 inches.

Buy better biners and slings.


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## (WLL) (Dec 28, 2006)

*10 grand*



JTinaTree said:


> I thought the same thing that's almost 10 grand in grcs's. We know who is making the money on this site..



not even close. i do not own a real grcs the one i use is hand made the most expensive part is the winch and they run between $500-$1800. the 1 i use was a little over $600. the handle is the next expensive piece. i use a long craftsman ratchet with some slight mods it was less than $60 and works with all 3 grcs's i have. i dont like 2 use the other 2 because im worried about failure being they came used from e-bay and they have more play then my new winch. i use self tailing harkens and it has the grips on the spool. they are very smooth dimples and they dont harm the rope much at all if any. i have made some changes on the bollard every time i make another grcs. changes i have made are a guide pin and 2 L shaped pins to keep the rope on the bollard.on the first one i did not use a guide pin and used a different way 2 keep the rope on the bollard and could not work on either side 2 run the ropes. i also only used one binder strap and welded the ratchet part to the frame so when it took a hit it got bent and i had 2 cut off . another change i made was the binders the(2) straps can now be taken completely off. my bollard is not removable like on the origanl grcs.on the last 1 i have had made the frame rails have bin cut like teeth and do major damage to the trunk so it only gets used only 4 removals. the next one i get made i wont do that to help save the trees for pruning:jawdrop: well major pruning anyway. this tool is not needed ((most of the time)) 4 dead wood.


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## JTinaTree (Dec 28, 2006)

*I will buy the real thing*

I don't think I want to make my own GRCS Mr. Good spent countless hours testing and perfecting the GRCS so I will take his word on it. I can't blame people for trying to save a buck. But I will take the real thing and be just as proud to use it. That's my 2 cents anyway..


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## ddhlakebound (Dec 28, 2006)

JTinaTree said:


> I don't think I want to make my own GRCS Mr. Good spent countless hours testing and perfecting the GRCS so I will take his word on it. I can't blame people for trying to save a buck. But I will take the real thing and be just as proud to use it. That's my 2 cents anyway..




Me too....and when you think about the combined costs WLL has paid to build 3 knock off GRCS's (one of which he's sorta happy with), its probably cheaper to buy the real one anyway. I daresay the real one is more efficient and safer too. 

Also, in the event of an accident, or even worse, an injury accident involving his homemade GRCS,(unless I'm mistaken) not only will his insurance not cover him, but he'll have no one with liability coverage for the device he was using. Sure....he could sue the welder......but...........what's he gonna get?


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## JTinaTree (Dec 28, 2006)

ddhlakebound said:


> Me too....and when you think about the combined costs WLL has paid to build 3 knock off GRCS's (one of which he's sorta happy with), its probably cheaper to buy the real one anyway. I daresay the real one is more efficient and safer too.
> 
> Also, in the event of an accident, or even worse, an injury accident involving his homemade GRCS,(unless I'm mistaken) not only will his insurance not cover him, but he'll have no one with liability coverage for the device he was using. Sure....he could sue the welder......but...........what's he gonna get?[/
> 
> RIGHT ON BROTHA!!!:


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 30, 2006)

I think it is good to support the individuals that are promoting advancement of tools in this industry by buying the original tools.
That said, it is the nature of patenting something that can easily be reproduced, that it will be copied.
The heart and soul of a GRCS is the winch, which is just a sailboat winch. All Greg did was mount it to a plate that straps to a tree.


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## JayD (Dec 30, 2006)

JTinaTree said:


> Me too....and when you think about the combined costs WLL has paid to build 3 knock off GRCS's (one of which he's sorta happy with), its probably cheaper to buy the real one anyway. I daresay the real one is more efficient and safer too.
> 
> Also, in the event of an accident, or even worse, an injury accident involving his homemade GRCS,(unless I'm mistaken) not only will his insurance not cover him, but he'll have no one with liability coverage for the device he was using. Sure....he could sue the welder......but...........what's he gonna get?



This is why if you are going to do this you need to know what your doing..at least if you copy it the engineering is done for you...but what about the heart and soul of this device..apart from a correctly mounted winch...the welding, and correct procedure, this device would have a proper weld,fabrication procedure as well and if not followed well it doesn't matter how good it looks it's deemed a second..or a bina as long as folk can buy the material they will always copy things especially if they save a buck, me if the sweat isn't worth the saving I just go out and buy the produced product.Safety has got to come first.

How much will this devices lift? it should be stated on the product,
the only way to test the actuall fail piont is to load it up untill it fails,but sometimes there's a number of miner failers that are unseen which leads to catastrophe...which bring about the question how long should we use this tool before getting checked out for fractures fatigue


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## northernmover (Dec 31, 2006)

I'm all for fabricating tools, many of the best "engineers" I know are guys with no formal education and a lot of welding skills. That being said, I have never understood why anyone would fabricate their own grcs or a port a wrap and put these tools into a situation where failure could be deadly. Cheers to you guys that will do this, but it's not worth the money saved for me!


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## (WLL) (Dec 31, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> I think it is good to support the individuals that are promoting advancement of tools in this industry by buying the original tools.
> That said, it is the nature of patenting something that can easily be reproduced, that it will be copied.
> The heart and soul of a GRCS is the winch, which is just a sailboat winch. All Greg did was mount it to a plate that straps to a tree.



with all the costs 2 put a patent on a devise such as the grcs the original inventor could not afford 2 do so. with that being said the man/thief that had the money really stole this design from the poor tree climbing inventor who was cut out of all profits in the process and is still poor and hard working to this day. so the rich get richer and the poor keep working. i have seen this so called knock off being used in the late 90's by which whom i believe 2 be the original inventor. he was born and raised in pa and is a contract climber traveling allover the country. i wont mention any names but the 2 men im talking about know what im saying so the truth is the real grcs in the catalogs u c and buy are the real knockoffs.


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## Grace Tree (Dec 31, 2006)

That's a pretty serious accusation that reflects badly on the integrity of the maker of the GRCS. You may have good reason to believe what you've heard but I'd like to suggest to you that with most inventions or improvements in technology there is usually parallel development by a number of people. The patent belongs to the guy who developes it and obtains a patent. 'Doesn't mean he stole it. 
Phil


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## (WLL) (Dec 31, 2006)

Small Wood said:


> That's a pretty serious accusation that reflects badly on the integrity of the maker of the GRCS. You may have good reason to believe what you've heard but I'd like to suggest to you that with most inventions or improvements in technology there is usually parallel development by a number of people. The patent belongs to the guy who developes it and obtains a patent. 'Doesn't mean he stole it.
> Phil



just because he could afford 2 patent another mans idea doesn't mean he developed it but it does mean he stole the idea if he gives no credit to the original inventor. this happens everyday in the real world. the rich get richer and the poor keep working.
the patent belongs to the man that can aford the patent,wich is usualy not the maker or the inventer.


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## FanOFatherNash (Feb 21, 2011)

Small Wood said:


> That's a pretty serious accusation that reflects badly on the integrity of the maker of the GRCS. You may have good reason to believe what you've heard but I'd like to suggest to you that with most inventions or improvements in technology there is usually parallel development by a number of people. The patent belongs to the guy who developes it and obtains a patent. 'Doesn't mean he stole it.
> Phil


 
As with many other important technological devices, several people often worked on and independently created the same, or similar devices in the same general time period

example its been suggested that both Antonio Meucci and then Elisha Gray invented telephones before Alexander Graham Bell

Ironically in 2001 the United States Congress passed a 'resolution' stating that given all the facts of the patent disputes between Gray and Bell, under no terms could Alexander Graham Bell have been awarded the patent for the telephone by the United States Patent and Trademark Office in 1876

There is nothing new under the sun...


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## prana360 (Feb 21, 2011)

I sure am glad to see "banned" under (WLL)'s name. As someone who has spoken and spent some time with Mr Good I feel I can say that this man is doing great things for our profession and trust me hes not out there getting rich. Gregg works hard has a small professional crew and is a very standup guy. Just my two cents. FWIW

One more thing, I am ordering a GRCS as soon as possible. I've used them with other companies and can't wait to get mine!


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## jg55056 (Feb 21, 2011)

We have a hobbs, but I would prefer the grcs. More often than not we just use the mt 52, the top notch grapple, and a pulley at the bottom of the tree. It's a lot faster and less work.


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## Rickytree (Feb 27, 2011)

JTinaTree

I have the GRCS and love it. When it comes to lifting, I have loaded the device with pulling and with alot of force the rope when cranking the handle with stay in the same place meaning the rope has reached it's capacity in the winch. I have had one guy pulling on the rope which comes out the pigstail and one cranking at the same time and you get alot of force this way. I was using a 1/2 inch line. Works fantastic for branches over obstacles. I just love the pretension that it allows me to create. followed by a rip cut, also rope position on the branch and up in the tree will greatly affect the outcome. Haven't used the bollard yet, I just use the winch for everything. Remember to add it to your insurance. Congrats on the purchase. You won't be disappointed!!


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## ducaticorse (Feb 27, 2011)

jg55056 said:


> We have a hobbs, but I would prefer the grcs. More often than not we just use the mt 52, the top notch grapple, and a pulley at the bottom of the tree. It's a lot faster and less work.


 
+1


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