# My first big job



## DeWALT378G (Jan 2, 2009)

Ok, this isn't a big job for you pros out there, but it was for me. My main thing is home remodeling. If ever I do small trees for yard clearing and I do firewood for personal use. I figured this job was worth posting. I'm no pro so let me know what you think. I could probably use some pointers.

First pic is about halfway through the job. I had to take four 80' trees. The next I'm getting ready to top-out the canopies. The next few posts are some action shots.


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 2, 2009)

falling


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 2, 2009)

finishing out canopy


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 2, 2009)

chunking down some


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## ropensaddle (Jan 2, 2009)

DeWALT378G said:


> Ok, this isn't a big job for you pros out there, but it was for me. My main thing is home remodeling. If ever I do small trees for yard clearing and I do firewood for personal use. I figured this job was worth posting. I'm no pro so let me know what you think. I could probably use some pointers.
> 
> First pic is about halfway through the job. I had to take four 80' trees. The next I'm getting ready to top-out the canopies. The next few posts are some action shots.



Ok ever hear of a brain bucket? Topping out canopy's?:monkey:
So does that mean you trimmed them? Many questions come up
in my mind if you a a carpenter wtf are you doing in a tree?
I am not sure I have read into this correct so your going to need 
to post more info.


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 2, 2009)

more chunking and a stump

now if somebody were to call me a faller it would most likely be for falling out of trees, but i think that's a pretty good stump there.


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 2, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Ok ever hear of a brain bucket? Topping out canopy's?:monkey:
> So does that mean you trimmed them? Many questions come up
> in my mind if you a a carpenter wtf are you doing in a tree?
> I am not sure I have read into this correct so your going to need
> to post more info.



yeah you are right. i kept losing it. 
I like learning and doing all kinds of trades. Carpentry, yes, but that's not all I'm limited to and I find your comment somewhat insulting. I'm sure other people here do more than just cut trees. I wouldn't hold it against you if you did a crap job at installing cabinets as long as you've made your best effort. I've done quite a few smaller ones in the past and It wasn't like I just decided I was gonna be joe tree cutter that day. These were just a challenge for me and am quite proud of it. That might not agree with you and that's ok. If ever I would appreciate some constructive criticism. I am aware of the safety aspect and, you're right, I could have done better. It's a matter of learning which I'm open to along with everything else.


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## polexie (Jan 2, 2009)

Get a helmet, looks like you are not wearing protective trousers, shoes/boots, forgive me if you do.

One handed sawing, aaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!

While you are sawing in the last pictures, looks like you´re only tied with one rope around the trunk. Hope this is not true.

Lex


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 2, 2009)

polexie said:


> Get a helmet, looks like you are not wearing protective trousers, shoes/boots, forgive me if you do.
> 
> One handed sawing, aaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!
> 
> ...


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## limbwalker54 (Jan 2, 2009)

Let me ask you a few quick questions so my comments are not insulting:

1. Has anyone formally trained you?
2. Are you willing to learn a little from constructive criticism?
3. Do you have two hands?


I'll happily write back with a few pointers if you want.

-Mike Platt


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 2, 2009)

I commend your effort. It is very obvious you aren't an expert so let me clue you in on a few details. 

When you are cutting off horizontal limbs and using a snap cut (which you are) you need your top cut to be even or slightly behind your bottom cut. You are top cutting further out on the limb which will cause you to eventually lose a saw.

Don't leave stubs unless you have a use and a plan for them.

Get a hardhat on, you know that one.

You need a second tie in when running the saw. I will admit I don't do this absolutely 100% of the time, example being if I am reaching way out away from my rope to make a quick cut. With those chunk cuts I saw you need to have a secondary. That one cut you made very close to your lanyard, you best get a second lanyard or climbing line lower. You could also put a climbing line in the next top and use it to rappel as you chunk down.

Lay off of the excessive one handing. It happens, I know, but for some of those cuts it wasn't even close to necessary.

It looks to me like some of those tops/limbs were hanging up on adjacent trees as they fell and wanted to come back on you. If this is the case, you need to make an adjustment because it will get you.

Forgive me if I am seeing something wrong and apply what you can. Good luck on future ventures.

I do some carpentry too, for what it's worth, lol.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 2, 2009)

DeWALT378G said:


> yeah you are right. i kept losing it.
> I like learning and doing all kinds of trades. Carpentry, yes, but that's not all I'm limited to and I find your comment somewhat insulting. I'm sure other people here do more than just cut trees. I wouldn't hold it against you if you did a crap job at installing cabinets as long as you've made your best effort. I've done quite a few smaller ones in the past and It wasn't like I just decided I was gonna be joe tree cutter that day. These were just a challenge for me and am quite proud of it. That might not agree with you and that's ok. If ever I would appreciate some constructive criticism. I am aware of the safety aspect and, you're right, I could have done better. It's a matter of learning which I'm open to along with everything else.


Sorry to sound insulting but topping canopy's was misleading and I am still a little uncertain I follow you. Did you top and drop or top and leave the ones you mentioned topping the canopy on? Was this for hire or just on your own trees? Are you licensed insured to do tree work or cheating the business that are? I understand your pride and it seemed except for safety you did ok but balz in this bus = death and maiming and raises our rates for insurance.I will ask have you any formal experiance? In your pictures you seem at ease in trees but why did you notch the chunk instead of snap cut it? Anyway I am glad you survived and will say you got balz


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## JONSEREDFAN6069 (Jan 2, 2009)

when falling the tree, GET OUTA THE WAY!!!!!!!! that tree could have changed direction and come towards you in an instant. nice work though, i've been cutting for 12 years and would not even think of tackling a job that big.
good luck on your future jobs and wear the lid. when climbing get one with a chin strap.


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## limbwalker54 (Jan 2, 2009)

Ok Here's my quick list:

1. No helmet
2. Two points of tie in when running the saw!
3. TWO HANDS ON SAW!
4. Snap cut for blocking down small to medium sized wood (Notch and pull line or notch and block with bull line for larger)
5. Keep yourself in the cut zone, meaning use the saw from your shoulders to waist if possible. It keeps your face out of the kickback zone.
6. Your notch is terrible. Please practice BEFORE you're up in the tree. 45 degree top cut and flat bottom cut. Make the bottom first, set your depth by the 1/3 rule or one of the other many commonly followed notch depth rules. Meet with the 45 on top and you'll be fine as long as you make that back cut a little above the bottom cut. 
7. DONT LEAVE STUBS. They are BOUND to screw you up. You have spikes, a lanyard, and a climbing line. You CAN get down.
.....did I miss anything?


Mike Platt


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 2, 2009)

No Mike, I think you covered it. Pretty much the same as my list.


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## limbwalker54 (Jan 2, 2009)

Cool. Hope it didn't sound too harsh, I like to be constructive with an "edge" sometimes.


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## limbwalker54 (Jan 2, 2009)

And if i read the thread a little closer I would have realized you already had that list just as you said there Nails! Good we think alike however!


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 2, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Sorry to sound insulting but topping canopy's was misleading and I am still a little uncertain I follow you. Did you top and drop or top and leave the ones you mentioned topping the canopy on? Was this for hire or just on your own trees? Are you licensed insured to do tree work or cheating the business that are? I understand your pride and it seemed except for safety you did ok but balz in this bus = death and maiming and raises our rates for insurance.I will ask have you any formal experiance? In your pictures you seem at ease in trees but why did you notch the chunk instead of snap cut it? Anyway I am glad you survived and will say you got balz



What I did was cut all the limbs off then started cutting down the trunk until I felt it was a safe height to fall. I did this job for a friend of mine. I am not a tree guy and since my experience on something this big was limited I only charged him for lunch and some beers afterwards. As for cheating the business that was not my intention. In my defense and as a licensed contractor I could very much say the same about remodelling. This job was entirely about the challenge and experience for me. Balls had nothing to do with it. In fact, my friend asked me to do this three years ago. I got half way up the tree and said "no friken way!" Three years and some experience later I figured I would give it a try. As for formal experience I can't technically/honestly say yes. I notched cause there was some lean to the trunk and wanted to use that to my advantage.


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 2, 2009)

JONSEREDFAN6069 said:


> when falling the tree, GET OUTA THE WAY!!!!!!!! that tree could have changed direction and come towards you in an instant. nice work though, i've been cutting for 12 years and would not even think of tackling a job that big.
> good luck on your future jobs and wear the lid. when climbing get one with a chin strap.



Yes i know......I did a lot of running that week...lol. In fact, on my last fall the trunk spun off its hinge a little and i could tell it was going to hit another tree. Believe me i dropped that saw and ran like crazy. In that pic you are referring to it doesn't look like I was far enough away but that was as far as I could get running around that small wall there. I had to turn around at some point to look to make sure nothing else was coming at me. by that time i knew where the tree was going.


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 2, 2009)

limbwalker54 said:


> Ok Here's my quick list:
> 
> 1. No helmet
> 2. Two points of tie in when running the saw!
> ...



1. yes, that was covered
2. i think i aswered this one already, but yeah I think I'm just on my flip line there, but throughout the job I always tried to tie in in more than one place.
3. can't argue that one. in some cases i had to use a hand to grab onto something cause the trunk would swing after dropping the weight of the limb.
4. are you suggesting for this job or just letting me know? i'm assuming you're suggesting as this would be considered small/med size wood.
5. i can see you're really on me about that pic with the horrible notch. much is wrong there. 
6. yes i know. i do much better notches than that. look at my last pic of the stump. it doesn't say much for my notch but nice hinge wood can give you an idea. in this particular case i was opting for more of an open notch so that there would be more control over the fall as the notch closed. 
7. lol... yeah i learned that by now. but don't misjudge me on using stubs as a crutch to get out of a tree. i left the stubs to give me options as i worked my way down. they also came in handy as something to push/pull on to right myself in the before i made a cut cause the tree had some lean. for the record i used to do recreational rappelling. spikes or not, getting out of the tree is easy. 


Thanks for all your commentary. It is exactly what I was looking for and need. I didn't post these pics to be macho.


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 2, 2009)

Glad to see you took it well Dewalt, many do not, and many do not last. Your on your way!


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 2, 2009)

limbwalker54 said:


> Cool. Hope it didn't sound too harsh, I like to be constructive with an "edge" sometimes.



The "edge" is an industry standard for tree guys. I think the Z133 says something about it, lol.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 2, 2009)

DeWALT378G said:


> What I did was cut all the limbs off then started cutting down the trunk until I felt it was a safe height to fall. I did this job for a friend of mine. I am not a tree guy and since my experience on something this big was limited I only charged him for lunch and some beers afterwards. As for cheating the business that was not my intention. In my defense and as a licensed contractor I could very much say the same about remodelling. This job was entirely about the challenge and experience for me. Balls had nothing to do with it. In fact, my friend asked me to do this three years ago. I got half way up the tree and said "no friken way!" Three years and some experience later I figured I would give it a try. As for formal experience I can't technically/honestly say yes. I notched cause there was some lean to the trunk and wanted to use that to my advantage.



So I guess that makes you a recreational climber removal man? 
I guess my thoughts go to why, why take a chance with your 
life and possibly property damage for lunch and beer? I really
am not trying to flame or ridicule you I just can't wrap my mind
around doing this dangerous work without profiting. I will tell you
in complete honesty you are definately setting yourself up for a
terrible injury without formal training and no ppe. I say it in care
not in spite and if your going to do it anyway go to some seminars
and learn some safety and techniques.


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## mattmc2003 (Jan 2, 2009)

Im no expert either... but has anyone ever had a pic posted on this site without getting the same "your gonna get hurt" or " wear this or that" replies? I mean no harm, but i've saw enough of the comments left on pics that i would never post a pic, no matter how good of a job i thought i did. just my opinion.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 2, 2009)

mattmc2003 said:


> Im no expert either... but has anyone ever had a pic posted on this site without getting the same "your gonna get hurt" or " wear this or that" replies? I mean no harm, but i've saw enough of the comments left on pics that i would never post a pic, no matter how good of a job i thought i did. just my opinion.



Does this mean you don't like to wear ppe?


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## mattmc2003 (Jan 2, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Does this mean you don't like to wear ppe?



I have been slack on it, but im gettin better. But i wouldn't post a pic of me not doing so, cause i know what response i'll get. Its like calling my folks and tellin them im drunk. Im an adult, and don't live in their home, there's nothing they can do, but you know your gonna catch hell anyway. Thats the only example i could come up with.


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 2, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> So I guess that makes you a recreational climber removal man?
> I guess my thoughts go to why, why take a chance with your
> life and possibly property damage for lunch and beer? I really
> am not trying to flame or ridicule you I just can't wrap my mind
> ...




I guess so if that's something you can call recreational. I'm not one of those guys who thinks he can do a job just cause he has the tools. I'm not going to pride myself as a arborist or a faller. I wouldn't dare it as it would be an insult to those who are. Ok, mincing words here. Who doesn't want a good meal after doing some grueling work? He's my friend anyway. It's not like I was gonna charge him. He did bump me a few bucks though. Again, for me it's about the experience. When my confidence isn't there my profit is my learning only to reach a point where my learning is worth getting paid for. Looking at the big picture here, everyone's scrutiny in this thread only goes to show how much I don't know and I applaud all of you for it. Indeed formal training would be on the agenda.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 2, 2009)

DeWALT378G said:


> I guess so if that's something you can call recreational. I'm not one of those guys who thinks he can do a job just cause he has the tools. I'm not going to pride myself as a arborist or a faller. I wouldn't dare it as it would be an insult to those who are. Ok, mincing words here. Who doesn't want a good meal after doing some grueling work? He's my friend anyway. It's not like I was gonna charge him. He did bump me a few bucks though. Again, for me it's about the experience. When my confidence isn't there my profit is my learning only to reach a point where my learning is worth getting paid for. Looking at the big picture here, everyone's scrutiny in this thread only goes to show how much I don't know and I applaud all of you for it. Indeed formal training would be on the agenda.



If you have a local Vermeer shop they are into training expo's here.
I am sure if you do a search locally there are some in your area and
I would suggest you attend. Do you have the tree climbers companion
and or the art and science of practical rigging? Cheap knowledge and
worth every penny for a starting climber.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 2, 2009)

mattmc2003 said:


> I have been slack on it, but im gettin better. But i wouldn't post a pic of me not doing so, cause i know what response i'll get. Its like calling my folks and tellin them im drunk. Im an adult, and don't live in their home, there's nothing they can do, but you know your gonna catch hell anyway. Thats the only example i could come up with.



Post pics then of you doing it with ppe on! I mean I wear mine at lunch
and am made fun of at times for my cowboy hard hat but it has saved
a pop knot a time or two. Plus when I have a pocket full of mulah it
is cheap mugging insurance


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## JeffL (Jan 2, 2009)

Christ man cinch up that lanyard, my legs are tired just lookin' at ya! (Butt way out from the trunk, tighten it up a bit and see how much more comfy it is.) :greenchainsaw:


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## Jimmychips (Jan 3, 2009)

*Nubs are Dangerous!!!*

Get rid of the nubs!! They serve no purpose but to hang and catch rigging lines, climbing lines and falling pieces. Also, I would rather slide a few feet, letting my lanyard and climbing line catch me, than to take one of those nubs in the chest, or the groin. Also, I think someone already mentioned this, but it merits repeating: Get away from the tree when it is falling! 85% of all deaths are within a 15' radius of the stump! I recently had a similar situation where I felt "trapped" between a wall and the stump. I made the notch, bore cut leaving a strap of holding wood at the back, and then got out of there. I had one of my guys go grab "chainsaw on a stick" from the truck, then released the strap from 8' away on the OTHER side of the wall. Please put a hat on also.


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## tree MDS (Jan 3, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Sorry to sound insulting but topping canopy's was misleading and I am still a little uncertain I follow you. Did you top and drop or top and leave the ones you mentioned topping the canopy on? Was this for hire or just on your own trees? Are you licensed insured to do tree work or cheating the business that are? I understand your pride and it seemed except for safety you did ok but balz in this bus = death and maiming and raises our rates for insurance.I will ask have you any formal experiance? In your pictures you seem at ease in trees but why did you notch the chunk instead of snap cut it? Anyway I am glad you survived and will say you got balz



Rope, that snap cut is hardly ever nessisarry on wood - thats just something you learned doing utility work. The notching of chunks can be done much safer and with more control in my opinion. I hate snapcuts on logs.

Dewalt, nice job, looks like you could have some potential as a climber, just listen to the safety tips you got - especially the two tie in rule. Also dont think you cant cut that steel core lanyard, because its pretty easy, that could be your undoing right there.


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## (WLL) (Jan 3, 2009)

i think ya did a fine job and give ya an A fer effort the newb's got ballz and i believe he has what it takes ta make a good climber. you came to a great place and have been where most newb's haven't. two hands and a crash helmet.


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## oldirty (Jan 3, 2009)

DeWALT378G said:


> I only charged him for lunch and some beers afterwards.




this right here is why people lose their mind when they get a legit quote from a legit company. working for a beer and a ham sandwich is just plain stupid. never mind the economical sense it does not make. if you want to risk your life for a couple beers go down to the bar get drunk as a skunk and then drive home as fast as you can. 





JeffL said:


> Christ man cinch up that lanyard, my legs are tired just lookin' at ya! (Butt way out from the trunk, tighten it up a bit and see how much more comfy it is.) :greenchainsaw:



first thing i noticed too. bad positioning leads to bad cutting technique. get your hips closer to the wood. never mind the one handing, no helmet, stubs and all.


good luck man.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 3, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Rope, that snap cut is hardly ever nessisarry on wood - thats just something you learned doing utility work. The notching of chunks can be done much safer and with more control in my opinion. I hate snapcuts on logs.
> 
> Dewalt, nice job, looks like you could have some potential as a climber, just listen to the safety tips you got - especially the two tie in rule. Also dont think you cant cut that steel core lanyard, because its pretty easy, that could be your undoing right there.



Mds I prefer snap cuts over notching in most cases it is extra cutting and
time unnecessary and they tend to land better. I have notched and pulled
but many times when doing so the piece is harder to make land flat and
every settup is different but I normally hate wasted effort and time. However, I prefer a lead rope in most cases and I always
tie off one chunk and then next chunk out of tail so the rope does
not have to be sent up next time I am always prepared for the next cut!


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## (WLL) (Jan 3, 2009)

*snap cut on wood*



tree MDS said:


> Rope, that snap cut is hardly ever necessary on wood


sure there are other ways, but i disagree with u. i do more snaps in the bucket with big wood cause you should snap from the top of the piece you are cutting. i have never used a rope on a snap. imo the snap is a great cut and gets used all the time. its very hands on if ya know what i mean and gives the cutter complete control of the wood in question


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## tree MDS (Jan 3, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Mds I prefer snap cuts over notching in most cases it is extra cutting and
> time unnecessary and they tend to land better. I have notched and pulled
> but many times when doing so the piece is harder to make land flat and
> every settup is different but I normally hate wasted effort and time. However, I prefer a lead rope in most cases and I always
> ...



Interesting rope. Maybe we've just develpoed different styles based on the way we've learned. Me I'm perfectly comfortable just notching different angles on different pieces based on hight and lenth. I get most every piece to land flat (or rope it). I dont see the logic behind the snap cut in relation to how you are supposed to get a piece to land flat??


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## (WLL) (Jan 3, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Interesting rope. Maybe we've just develpoed different styles based on the way we've learned. Me I'm perfectly comfortable just notching different angles on different pieces based on hight and lenth. I get most every piece to land flat (or rope it). I dont see the logic behind the snap cut in relation to how you are supposed to get a piece to land flat??


flip once and flat. bam! i get angled cut threw's ta land flat. you just gotta judge and dont flip more than one turn a cut. its usually just a lil tip at the right time is all it takes. it takes practise and its not a guarantee so when in doubt rope em out.


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## (WLL) (Jan 3, 2009)

sorry fer cuttn in rope, mds:hmm3grin2orange:


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## ropensaddle (Jan 3, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Interesting rope. Maybe we've just develpoed different styles based on the way we've learned. Me I'm perfectly comfortable just notching different angles on different pieces based on hight and lenth. I get most every piece to land flat (or rope it). I dont see the logic behind the snap cut in relation to how you are supposed to get a piece to land flat??



Because it pops and doesn't have a spin started it can many times be
landed flat or butt first. Yes I understand different notch angles and
thickness and types can have a profound affect. I see most of them
do somersaults before landing and many times hit on the nose and the 
other end can flop? It I suppose is preference, I don't like wasting time
messing with a notch unless it is needed, I do notch them at times but
there will be a specific reason if I do. I also prefer the snap when 
blocking out of the bucket less chance of it getting away pinching
saw imo. I make a snap precut then raise up and push it off.


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## tree MDS (Jan 3, 2009)

*Hate the snap cut*



(WLL) said:


> sure there are other ways, but i disagree with u. i do more snaps in the bucket with big wood cause you should snap from the top of the piece you are cutting. i have never used a rope on a snap. imo the snap is a great cut and gets used all the time. its very hands on if ya know what i mean and gives the cutter complete control of the wood in question



I just dont see it - I've seen guys good at that thing (snap cut) and it still doesnt look nearly as safe or controlled as the way I do it. IMHO it is a recepe for potholes in the lawn. Perfect hinge and angles with relation to flat landing+ no pull rope (unless absolutely nesisary) is the way to go - of course this might require some "one handing", so I should probably shut up.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 3, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I just dont see it - I've seen guys good at that thing (snap cut) and it still doesnt look nearly as safe or controlled as the way I do it. IMHO it is a recepe for potholes in the lawn. Perfect hinge and angles with relation to flat landing+ no pull rope (unless absolutely nesisary) is the way to go - of course this might require some "one handing", so I should probably shut up.



Heck no keep talking my friend Heck I go back and forth pard a 
month I may be saying do not cut blocks without wasting time to make
a notch so you can watch it flip flop and rate it on form,amount of flips
before the smack and divit. lol


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## oldirty (Jan 3, 2009)

i'll notch it and then as she leaves the stem i give it a little flip to get it to turn over in the air. in an effort to land it flat. works mint like 8 out of 10 times. the other 2 will get maybe half a turn too much and roll over when it hits... oh well.

on the other hand if you make a real good over/under snap cut you have almost complete control when it comes to getting the wood off the stem. problem with that is if you are not in the bucket you can only go so big with what you are taking.

almost no tree is the same though, so each cut is unique for the situation. i guess what i am saying is experience will tell you what cut to make.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 3, 2009)

oldirty said:


> i'll notch it and then as she leaves the stem i give it a little flip to get it to turn over in the air. in an effort to land it flat. works mint like 8 out of 10 times. the other 2 will get maybe half a turn too much and roll over when it hits... oh well.
> 
> on the other hand if you make a real good over/under snap cut you have almost complete control when it comes to getting the wood off the stem. problem with that is if you are not in the bucket you can only go so big with what you are taking.
> 
> almost no tree is the same though, so each cut is unique for the situation. i guess what i am saying is experience will tell you what cut to make.



Yupper it will, sometimes on a nice sunshiny day I love fast cuttin a
20" spar lol.


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## tree MDS (Jan 3, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Heck no keep talking my friend Heck I go back and forth pard a
> month I may be saying do not cut blocks without wasting time to make
> a notch so you can watch it flip flop and rate it on form,amount of flips
> before the smack and divit. lol



No, they usually just do a 180 and then stay put with a resounding "thud"...there Pard. lol.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 3, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> No, they usually just do a 180 and then stay put with a resounding "thud"... Pard. lol.



Hey mds so we set ya up have a big get together and see this
in action from 60' up a pine. Will the huge crowd and video cause any
second thoughts:monkey:


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## tree MDS (Jan 3, 2009)

oldirty said:


> i'll notch it and then as she leaves the stem i give it a little flip to get it to turn over in the air. in an effort to land it flat. works mint like 8 out of 10 times. the other 2 will get maybe half a turn too much and roll over when it hits... oh well.
> 
> on the other hand if you make a real good over/under snap cut you have almost complete control when it comes to getting the wood off the stem. problem with that is if you are not in the bucket you can only go so big with what you are taking.
> 
> almost no tree is the same though, so each cut is unique for the situation. i guess what i am saying is experience will tell you what cut to make.



I hear ya with the helping her flip oldirty, this (for me) is usually when going long and low with a big double open notch. 

I climbed primarily for most of my stint as treeguy though, so maybe this has alot to do with how I do things...still with the bucket though I make that notch and try to get her perfect like a laser all the way accross - then go up and push (sometimes I have to go back down and cut a little more, but its safe this way) and like I said it uaually lands nice and flat. Thats just my style I guess.


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## tree MDS (Jan 3, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Hey mds so we set ya up have a big get together and see this
> in action from 60' up a pine. Will the huge crowd and video cause any
> second thoughts:monkey:



Not a one rope, just make sure you are in an equal spar right next to me.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 3, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Not a one rope, just make sure you are in the a spar equal right next to me.



No prob fiend an so we go rock and roll one lands flat the other goes splat:Eye: I smile bow me head and then say opppps:hmm3grin2orange:


Btw mds I climbed every day for the first fifteen year friend lol


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## tree MDS (Jan 3, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> No prob fiend an so we go rock and roll one lands flat the other goes splat:Eye:
> I smile bow me head and then say opppps:hmm3grin2orange:



Does sound like fun though. opcorn: 

Latter, mds

Yeah, about 15 years here to rope: 5 for "them", ten for me. 

Peace friend, latter mds


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## ropensaddle (Jan 3, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Does sound like fun though. opcorn:
> 
> Latter, mds
> 
> ...



15 for climb and ten in a bucket for me


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## tree MDS (Jan 4, 2009)

*Correction*



ropensaddle said:


> 15 for climb and ten in a bucket for me



I was getting a little confused (too many beers, lol) yesterday I've got about 18 years climbing as far I can recall.

I was thinking about the 10 years without a bucket working for myself and having a few too many addmittedly. lol

Sometimes I wish I never bought that thing, but its probably just dealing with the winter payments at the moment - plus all the damn maintenance on all this crap. Bucket makes my buisiness better able to serve my customers though so I deal with it. All these payments are on automatic withdrawl (bucket/chipper) so when those are done I should be able to buy a house no problem, so thats a good thing I suppose - provided I can make it another 3 years and 9 months.

Gotta have a long term plan the way I see it.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 4, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I was getting a little confused (too many beers, lol) yesterday I've got about 18 years climbing as far I can recall.
> 
> I was thinking about the 10 years without a bucket working for myself and having a few too many addmittedly. lol
> 
> ...



Man it seems we are swimming in the same swamp. I am worse than
I have been since graduating from high school in the ray gun years.
I have been thinking of creative ways to sell some of what I have
to move where the money is. We may sell our forty acres as land
is fairly high here and move to NW Ar it seems they have more work
up there.


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## tree MDS (Jan 4, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Man it seems we are swimming in the same swamp. I am worse than
> I have been since graduating from high school in the ray gun years.
> I have been thinking of creative ways to sell some of what I have
> to move where the money is. We may sell our forty acres as land
> ...



Follow the money rope. I think it sucks that it seems like you've got a pretty lame market where your at. I'm kind of lucky where I'm at as even in the less rich town I work in often I still dont have too much trouble getting 1500 a day. 40 acres though! Nice. That grapple must be sweet with all that land eh??


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## ropensaddle (Jan 4, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Follow the money rope. I think it sucks that it seems like you've got a pretty lame market where your at. I'm kind of lucky where I'm at as even in the less rich town I work in often I still dont have too much trouble getting 1500 a day. 40 acres though! Nice. That grapple must be sweet with all that land eh??



Yeah I like my farm is what has kept me stuck so far I am very lucky to make 500 a day 2 days a week but lately it is 0 notta and that is and has been what costs me so much in my business. It is too questionable whether you will have work from day to day.


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## teamtree (Jan 4, 2009)

I want to get in on this bashing as well. 

First of all, I take it as an insult that you come on here and want advice from professionals while undermining the whole industry. Ok, you did it for a buddy and he did not pay you for it....keep your mouth shut and walk on down the road. If you are serious about getting into the business then let's talk. By doing it for nothing you let your buddy know it is ok to pay nothing for a very good skill and one in which if performed incorrectly can be deadly. 

Let me ask you this, would you remodel his house for lunch and a beer? Would you like us to do it and then ask you for advice on how to put up a stud wall?

The fact that you have no ppe on is insulting as well.

Your stump, despite what you think is typical of an amatuer. Your notch is about 2/3 instead of 1/3.


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## tree MDS (Jan 4, 2009)

Teamtree, I think you are being too hard on the dude. He said he just did it for the thrill and because he wanted to learn. Better him practicing on a buddys trees for beer than an actual customer's trees and advertizing and all that. Besides he looked pretty good for a beginer if you really think about it.


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 6, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> If you have a local Vermeer shop they are into training expo's here.
> I am sure if you do a search locally there are some in your area and
> I would suggest you attend. Do you have the tree climbers companion
> and or the art and science of practical rigging? Cheap knowledge and
> worth every penny for a starting climber.




Well, after some searching the closest vermeer is some 50 mi from me. Went through their site and nothing of any training events. I might have to call. Other venues I looked at were either as of last year or they have not posted this year's agendas. However, I found a real handy interactive guide on the ISA site. Has most of what tree climber's companion has (which I have btw) then goes further into rigging, accidents and whatnot. The rigging book I'll have to get. Hell, that will probably come in handy for more than just trees.


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## (WLL) (Jan 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Teamtree, I think you are being too hard on the dude. He said he just did it for the thrill and because he wanted to learn. Better him practicing on a buddys trees for beer than an actual customer's trees and advertizing and all that. Besides he looked pretty good for a beginer if you really think about it.


:agree2:


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## (WLL) (Jan 6, 2009)

teamtree said:


> I want to get in on this bashing as well.
> 
> First of all, I take it as an insult that you come on here and want advice from professionals while undermining the whole industry. Ok, you did it for a buddy and he did not pay you for it....keep your mouth shut and walk on down the road. If you are serious about getting into the business then let's talk. By doing it for nothing you let your buddy know it is ok to pay nothing for a very good skill and one in which if performed incorrectly can be deadly.
> 
> ...


the new guy has more gree rep than u treet. whatch who you bash, one day this dude just my bail u out of another tree you cant handle


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## tree MDS (Jan 6, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> the new guy has more gree rep than u treet. whatch who you bash, one day this dude just my bail u out of another tree you cant handle



Very nice indeed. lol


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 6, 2009)

teamtree said:


> I want to get in on this bashing as well.
> 
> First of all, I take it as an insult that you come on here and want advice from professionals while undermining the whole industry. Ok, you did it for a buddy and he did not pay you for it....keep your mouth shut and walk on down the road. If you are serious about getting into the business then let's talk. By doing it for nothing you let your buddy know it is ok to pay nothing for a very good skill and one in which if performed incorrectly can be deadly.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry to insult you. I don't know how I'm undermining the whole industry. Please explain that to me as I do not understand. If it's because it wasn't a paying job, then I understand. However if I said I did get paid then you would have accused me of cheating the industry like someone else did earlier. Looks like this is a no win for me. As for the part about asking advice from pros, well please explain the Homeowner Helper Forum where people have asked about to bring down some trees themselves. They actually got some help there and were received very nicely. Ironically by some of the same people who bashed me here. No hard feelings. I knew I was taking a chance being a newb. Maybe I should have posted my pics there. 

No, I wouldn't remodel his house for nothing. That I have done for him and do get paid for, but taking trees down is something I feel my skill level is not worth paying for. I'm sure you would agree. 
I could care less if you remodeled a house then asked me how to do it. If you need help, then you need help and I would be more than happy to help you do a better job. If you're upset because you feel like I'm taking work away from you, then I'm sorry and just one more reason that I shouldn't get paid for it. But guess what, the same thing happens to me too on a daily basis year after year and those guys do get paid for doing horrible work. At least I'm acknowledging that my tree work is not up to par. Which brings me to the stump. Notch was on the right. Yeah, a little over a third, but not 2/3 and nowhere did I post/suggest that my stump was the best stump ever. I just said it was pretty good. I did all four trees like that and pretty much put them where I wanted them. 
As for the no ppe being insulting I think I will agree with you there. My apologies. I will try to edit my posts so as not to cause any further problems on Arborsite.

update; ok so i went back to edit my earlier posts and the edit button is not there anymore. i was going to remove all the pics where it was obvious that my ppe is missing (which is most). if anybody knows how to do this please let me know or maybe the moderators can do it. i don't want to give outsiders the wrong impression of arborsite any further. thanks.


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## DeWALT378G (Jan 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Teamtree, I think you are being too hard on the dude. He said he just did it for the thrill and because he wanted to learn. Better him practicing on a buddys trees for beer than an actual customer's trees and advertizing and all that. Besides he looked pretty good for a beginer if you really think about it.



thanks MDS and WLL! but to be fair he's got me on the ppe. 

Thanks again to all who were kind enough to help.


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## clearance (Jan 6, 2009)

limbwalker54 said:


> Ok Here's my quick list:
> 
> 1. No helmet
> 2. Two points of tie in when running the saw!
> ...



1. Of course.
2. If you are using a steel core lanyard/flipline then you are fine with just that. That is the rule here.
3. Gonna leave that alone.
4. Snap cuts are fine, I guess, I hardly ever use them though. You only need a pull line sometimes, not often. "Notch and block"-I sure hope you are not advocating hanging big chunks from the same tree you are in.
5. Yep.
6. 45 degree-that depends on what you are doing.
7. Yep.

Dewalt, good for you, stay here and keep looking and learning. Lots of good advice here, only a few things are cast in stone, like ppe, many other things are not. Although some think they are.


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## JeffL (Jan 6, 2009)

#4, whats the matter with rigging big stuff off what you're tied into?


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## (WLL) (Jan 7, 2009)

JeffL said:


> #4, whats the matter with rigging big stuff off what you're tied into?


*nothing!!!*


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## clearance (Jan 7, 2009)

JeffL said:


> #4, whats the matter with rigging big stuff off what you're tied into?



I take it you are joking, if not, please say so and I will explain why lowering big wood from the same tree you are in has many dangers.


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## limbwalker54 (Jan 7, 2009)

I agree with WLL, clearance. There is nothing wrong with properly lowering wood off of the same stem you are tied into. Most of the time this is in a situation where there is no other option. I would love to have something nearby to swing wood off of with every job I do, but it never works out that way. Inevitably in the same breath there is a house nearby or a deck or that Japanese garden below where NOTHING can get crushed. So what do you do when you don't have a tree nearby to swing wood with? 

Using a block on a timberhitch has its dangers, but if executed with proper judgment and you look out for #1 (yourself) while doing it, there is no problem. Just watch out for that shimmy shake when it smashes into the tree before lowering it!


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## JeffL (Jan 7, 2009)

limbwalker54 said:


> I agree with WLL, clearance. There is nothing wrong with properly lowering wood off of the same stem you are tied into. Most of the time this is in a situation where there is no other option. I would love to have something nearby to swing wood off of with every job I do, but it never works out that way. Inevitably in the same breath there is a house nearby or a deck or that Japanese garden below where NOTHING can get crushed. So what do you do when you don't have a tree nearby to swing wood with?
> 
> Using a block on a timberhitch has its dangers, but if executed with proper judgment and you look out for #1 (yourself) while doing it, there is no problem. Just watch out for that shimmy shake when it smashes into the tree before lowering it!



Exactly, thats the situation we run into a lot. Tree next to a house, over a garden, over the driveway, etc. When brushing out the tips and using a small diameter upper limb as a rigging point, sure, you try to keep your TIP in another lead, or in a position as to not put yourself at risk should the unspeakable happen. Once its down to just chunking out wood though, especially on a live hardwood, theres usually no problem in lowering off the same stem. We just timber hitch with a big block and butt-hitch piece after piece on the way down the trunk. No problem. 

:greenchainsaw: 

(And if the tree is questionable.........well, sucks for your lawn, cause it isnt worth the cost of a life.)


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## clearance (Jan 7, 2009)

I said big wood, not small pieces, I mean big, like short logs.


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## JeffL (Jan 7, 2009)

clearance said:


> I said big wood, not small pieces, I mean big, like short logs.



Would you consider an 8'-10' piece of pine maybe 24-30" in diameter big?


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## (WLL) (Jan 7, 2009)

JeffL said:


> Would you consider an 8'-10' piece of pine maybe 24-30" in diameter big?


its not small and its only pine. if im not smokin em down id want the bull rope fer added security. shock-load is more of a worry than size. roping down chunks is my last option. i feel much better smashing logs standing on a soft pine spar than any hard wood. its a good way ta damage joints and irritate arthritis.


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## Huskyman4k (Jan 9, 2009)

limbwalker54 said:


> Ok Here's my quick list:
> 
> 1. No helmet
> 2. Two points of tie in when running the saw!
> ...



This is only my second or third post and I aggree with you Mike, I picked up on all the safety or lack of it. Here in the Uk you cant work without it now with H&S way over the top most of the time but they are really savegarding workers which is what it is all about in the end, everyone wants to get back home in one peice dont they.

I noticed on the program "Axemen" the lack of safety equipment is that the normal over in Oregen 

intrested to know more on that.


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## (WLL) (Jan 9, 2009)

Huskyman4k said:


> This is only my second or third post and I aggree with you Mike, I picked up on all the safety or lack of it. Here in the Uk you cant work without it now with H&S way over the top most of the time but they are really savegarding workers which is what it is all about in the end, everyone wants to get back home in one peice dont they.
> 
> I noticed on the program "Axemen" the lack of safety equipment is that the normal over in Oregen
> 
> intrested to know more on that.


welcome to A/S brother, its good to be safe


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## TreeTopKid (Jan 9, 2009)

DeWALT378G said:


> more chunking and a stump
> 
> now if somebody were to call me a faller it would most likely be for falling out of trees, but i think that's a pretty good stump there.



I would have made sure I had a second strop under that branch stub on Image 1920 JPG. It takes only a couple of seconds, and that's only a second more than it will take to hit the ground if you cut through your lanyard. (Just advice )


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## (WLL) (Jan 9, 2009)

TreeTopKid said:


> I would have made sure I had a second strop under that branch stub on Image 1920 JPG. It takes only a couple of seconds, and that's only a second more than it will take to hit the ground if you cut through your lanyard. (Just advice )


good advise mo on the the never ending list of safety. the above post is high on my list.


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## TreeTopKid (Jan 9, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> good advise mo on the the never ending list of safety. the above post is high on my list.



High on mine too. If not on a line I always take at least three when spiking, a purpose built flip line, a goofy home made adjustable that I have been making out of my retired climbing ropes for years, and a steel flip line that usually hangs a little loose as last ditch back up. (safe as houses!  )


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## MCW (Jan 13, 2009)

I say good on you mate. I've seen the prices a local professional company charges for knocking down simple trees with no aerial work. People near s**t their pants. 
Kudos to the guys that do get up in the trees hanging by their nuts. Unfortunately some professional guys have an ego that you couldn't jump over. 
The constructive criticism should be applauded but all the guys giving you a hard time are just worried you might be cutting their lunch.
I've cut down trees in people's yards that the local "professional" mob wanted to charge $1000+ for. They've told the people that ït will be "very tricky" blah blah. I dropped one 60' Silky Oak in 5 minutes (easily) and within 3 hours it was cleaned up completely (with some help).
Some of these guys really do have tickets on themselves. They'd be having a crack at you for cutting down a 10 foot sapling in someone's paddock if they got a sniff you were impacting on their bottom line. Who cares if your wedge cut is 2° out anyway! 

And even if you do kill yourself you can die walking the dog


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## Rickytree (Feb 8, 2009)

Hey Dewalt378G You might want to change the bar on the climbing saw. I got a 16" on mine and does just fine. That's a 200T right? Is that your saw in the back of the truck? Another thing to keep in mind is that every tree and every type of tree will be different. Watch out for bark tears and barber chairs! When it comes to working as a hack or cheating by not having insurance and not paying for advertising, Ya it sucks paying for that and you don't but you probably don't get the amount of work I get.(I hope) Everyone got to start somewhere and with the economy the way it is I don't blame you. But hay if you a millionaire and are doing this for the rush and the thrill of it, well [email protected]#K OFF leave the work to us poor folk!


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## Raymond (Feb 11, 2009)

I found an upside down notch or two 45 degrees on the notch works better sometimes.


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