# Hydralic fluid for bar oil?



## avalancher (Jul 17, 2008)

I recently stopped by a logging crew that is working in our area, I clean up all the pieces cut off the ends of logs at the knuckle boom before they load the trucks(and get some nice wood too!) and noticed one of the guys pumping hydralic oil from a drum into a one gallon container. Then he sauntered over to his saw on the tailgate and filled up the oil reservoir. I asked him about it, and he said hydralic oil by the drum is far cheaper than bar oil, and works just as good. Anyone use this stuff, or know if its as good as genuine bar oil?
I buy my stuff from Walmart, the cheapest place in town. they have one gallon jugs for 5 bucks and some change, and seems to work just fine. Wondered if hydralic oil is really cheaper by the drum?


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## peterrum (Jul 17, 2008)

Not sure about the hydraulic fluid, I get my chain oil from Wlmart as well. Is hydraulic fluid by the gallon any cheaper than the chain oil. I'm always looking to save a nickle if it works.


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## TJ-Bill (Jul 17, 2008)

I could have sworn I heard my buddy say they used to used old motor oil for bar oil.. I'll have to ask him again..


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## gtstang462002 (Jul 17, 2008)

back when I was runnin pouland and crapsman saws I used old motor oil. Havn't gotten the courage to do such in the stihls though... I used to use the motor oil as 2 cycle oil as well... Did that for years for casual cutting....


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## Booshcat (Jul 17, 2008)

Last time I bought new Hydraulic Oil for my splitter, I believe it was around $8 a gallon.

I guess it's cheaper if you are getting it free from the boss.


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## avalancher (Jul 17, 2008)

I wouldnt even consider using old motor oil for bar or 2 cycle oil. Old motor oil for one is full of tiny metal fragments, do you really want to run that through your chainsaw? Or have it run between your saw chain and bar?
Second, motor oil doesnt have any cling properties, so it is going to fling off the bar at the tip. Right before it runs over the tip and back through the wood. No oil or very little oil is still on that bar and chain as it is ran through the wood. 
Bar oil isnt expensive enough for me to gamble a bar and chain, especially when you consider what a 30 inch bar and chain will run you.


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## 2FatGuys (Jul 17, 2008)

TJ-Bill said:


> I could have sworn I heard my buddy say they used to used old motor oil for bar oil.. I'll have to ask him again..



Back in my younger / dumber days, we kept used motor oil for bar oil. Now, however, studies have shown the health problems associated with excessive exposure to it. The carbon / oil combination has been proven to be carcinogenic. It is dirty, smelly and does a poor job of lubrication. There is no way I'd stray from a good quality bar oil when expecting it to protect my investment in bars and chains. Let's face it... some of us are running bars that cost more than some of the saws being discussed on this site! For the cost of one good quality 60" bar, you could buy several Poulan or Crapsman saws....


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## Jkebxjunke (Jul 17, 2008)

The price of bars, chains and saws... I think I will stick with bar oil... It sticks better to the bar and chain especially when you have saws with non adjustable oilers and you have to make due with the frugal amount that it puts on the bar. I think I can afford 2-3 quarts of the good stuff a year especially if you spend 3-500 and up for a new saw... are you really gonna take the chance of screwing up a $500+ saw for a few cents? the only thing I use used oil for is manure spreader bed chains and any other equipment that has chains ( like a log elevator which is on my wish list )


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## Mike Van (Jul 17, 2008)

When I was 16 [mid 60's] I used 10 weight oil in the winter, 30 in the summer. It worked fine, back then I didn't even know they made 'bar oil' I don't know why hydraulic oil wouldn't, it sure is slippery on a floor - Never used old oil though [even as cheap as I am] It is full of crap, back then we threw it on the driveway to keep the dust down. Probably go to the 'big house' if you did that today.


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## Jkebxjunke (Jul 17, 2008)

Mike Van said:


> When I was 16 [mid 60's] I used 10 weight oil in the winter, 30 in the summer. It worked fine, back then I didn't even know they made 'bar oil' I don't know why hydraulic oil wouldn't, it sure is slippery on a floor - Never used old oil though [even as cheap as I am] It is full of crap, back then we threw it on the driveway to keep the dust down. Probably go to the 'big house' if you did that today.



SHHHHHH!!! careful the enviro cops will wanna know where the driveway is so it can be declared a superfund site and cost you millions in fines!!


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## Rookie1 (Jul 17, 2008)

I would guess if you could get bar oil in a 55 drum it would be cheaper than in a gallon jug. At work I buy oil bulk and in drum,depending on which type. Salesman is always telling me bulk is the way to go cause its alot cheaper. That being said thats the only way I could see Hyd.oil being that much cheaper than bar oil. Also try searching AS and you will find a whole bunch of threads about chain oil.:deadhorse:


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## husky455rancher (Jul 17, 2008)

i used old motor oil in the poolie until it could hardly spin the chain anymore. i never wore out the bar or had problem with anyting related. the saw still runs and oild great it just has ZERO power anymore. prolly just needs a re ring. do i use old motor oil in my huskys....no usually walmart or ts oil. ts oil is pretty damn good imo. really tacky stuff. but if i get another poolie or a crapsman its gettin the drain oil.


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## Engineeringnerd (Jul 17, 2008)

Hydraulic fluid is bad for many types of rubber. If you have rubber seals or parts that come in contact with the Hydr fluid, you may find them a pile of goo in the near future.


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## Wirenut2266 (Jul 17, 2008)

Yup, agree what nerd said. Hydro oil very corrisive!


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## Mike Van (Jul 18, 2008)

Every hydraulic system I've ever seen has o-rings & seals somewhere - Wouldn't they all be falling into a pile of goo ? There's equipment out there running for who knows how many years with hydraulic oil in it that still works fine. One 60 year old Farmall H comes to mind - Had hydraulic oil in it since day one. I can't imagine the one or two o-rings in a chainsaw oiler are going to fail because of hydraulic oil.


engineeringnerd said:


> Hydraulic fluid is bad for many types of rubber. If you have rubber seals or parts that come in contact with the Hydr fluid, you may find them a pile of goo in the near future.


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## Butch(OH) (Jul 18, 2008)

Mike Van said:


> Every hydraulic system I've ever seen has o-rings & seals somewhere - Wouldn't they all be falling into a pile of goo ? There's equipment out there running for who knows how many years with hydraulic oil in it that still works fine. One 60 year old Farmall H comes to mind - Had hydraulic oil in it since day one. I can't imagine the one or two o-rings in a chainsaw oiler are going to fail because of hydraulic oil.



I typed up an answer too, and for the corrosive post that followed but I deleted them before I hit the submit button. I didnt want to get throwed off the site,,,


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## Mike PA (Jul 18, 2008)

Hydraulic oil should not be used as bar oil. For one, it does not work as well for eliminating pitch on the bar. A quality bar oil will help reduce buildup of pitch on the bar and chain, which helps to reduce wear and increases cutting efficiency. I guess if you cut all dead hardwoods, you would likely never notice. Cut live pine, and it may be a different story.

Second, hydraulic fluid contains PAH's which are known to cause cancer. Prolonged and repeated exposure through the use of hydraulic fluid could be hazardous to your health. There are also environmental implications to using hydraulic oil. I'm not saying the risks to the environment are huge, but it is there.

Also, someone made the point about seals, etcetera, and I would like to reitterate that point. Hydraulic oils can be terrific penetrators. Plastics that are not made to withstand this can and do degrade over time when in contact with hydraulic fluids. I do not know how long it takes or how severe the damage, but it is a real concern and I would not want to risk it. Overall, the benefit does not seem to outway the risks, in my opinion.


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## Wirenut2266 (Jul 18, 2008)

Mike Van said:


> Every hydraulic system I've ever seen has o-rings & seals somewhere - Wouldn't they all be falling into a pile of goo ? There's equipment out there running for who knows how many years with hydraulic oil in it that still works fine. One 60 year old Farmall H comes to mind - Had hydraulic oil in it since day one. I can't imagine the one or two o-rings in a chainsaw oiler are going to fail because of hydraulic oil.



Mike: I beleive you may be somewhat correct. But I'll assume Stihl puts just plain old Buna o rings in there saws. Hydro systems would chew them to pieces I beleive. Need Voooootron seals or better to handle corrisive agents in hydro oil. :monkey:


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## Dennis_Peacock (Jul 18, 2008)

But if you're going to spend $8 a gallon on hydraulic oil? Why not stop by your local Stihl dealer and pick up a gallon of their own brand of bar/chain oil and smile while using it? At least here, it's cheaper that that $8 a gallon hydraulic oil.


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## husky455rancher (Jul 18, 2008)

i used to work with hydraulics alot back when i did plastic injection molding. volton (spelling) o-rings are the norm for those systems. im sure a buna one would work fine for a while anyway. but i cant comment on the longevity of the buna ones. but if they use the good o-rings and seals in the saws then have at it!


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## Billy_Bob (Jul 19, 2008)

I done repair work in the past on all sorts of gizmos and was trained to "fix things right" by the manufacturers. I went by the manufacturer's service manual when making repairs.

For lubricating mechanical parts, some products will sometimes specify 5 different types of grease/lubricant for different parts of the product! So use one type of grease here, use a certain oil there, etc.

I learned there are all sorts of different oils and grease out there and each has a specific use. And I learned there is a reason the manufacturer says to use a specific lubricant rather than another.

The products I "fixed right" stayed fixed. But there was another guy in the shop who used any old oil for every moving part. His repairs were frequently returned because the repairs did not hold up.

I'll go with what the manufacturer says...


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## TonyG (Jul 19, 2008)

*I was just...*

informed by our local Stihl dealer that as of Aug 1st, there bar oil is jumping to $14 per/gal. Up from the current price of $7.50.

I bought 14 gallons to hold us over...


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## 046 (Jul 19, 2008)

veggie oil works great!!!

only drawback is... winter use will clog up until saw warms up


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## sdt7618 (Jul 21, 2008)

Will second the veggie oil, been using it in my MS260 for about a year now and no effect on the saw that I can see, and no oil flying all over the country side.


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## Engineeringnerd (Jul 22, 2008)

Yes most hydraulic systems have o-rings and seals, but they are designed for hydraulic fluid. Normal rubber and plastic can degrade very quickly if not designed for that application. To put it into perspective, I used to work for an aircraft tire manufacturer and if hydraulic fluid came in contact with a tire in the factory on the flight line, the tire had to be scrapped immediately. No if, ands, or buts. This could mean chunking a $1,000 tire for a few dribbles.

Perhaps the seals in some saws has rubber resistant to hydraulic fluid. I don't know but I wouldn't chance it.


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## kevin j (Jul 22, 2008)

I would disagree with some previous posts. Most anti-wear hydr oil is petroleum based, same as motor oil and bar oil. The major difference is the additive packages, and they are similar chemically, just used in different proportions for different use.
Most plastics and seals that would resist any of these oils would act the same all of them.

Nitrile rubber (Buna N) is by far the most common seal material.
viton is used sometimes for chemical resistance, but most often for higher temperature resistance. Buna N maybe 225 to 250 F max. Viton can go 300+, say at the lip temperature of a rotating shaft seal. Viton not so good at cold temps, say below 0F.

fire resistant or aircraft hydr fluids (phosphate esters, water glycols, etc) whole different story. Phosphate ester fluids attack seals, paint, coatings, skin, etc, but most people will never see those.

good AW industrial hydraulic is not cheap. We pay 10 to 13 $USD per gallon in drums on skid lots. At my local farm store the odd brands are 8-12/gallon.

That said, none of the other oils have tackifiers in them to keep it stuck on the bar around the end, yet still penetrate the oil grooves into the chain line pin area.

I'd not use anything but a good bar oil. Clean motor or AW hydr in a one tank pinch maybe but NEVER used dirty motor oil.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who swear for years with no problems, but I suspect they have very little use, or nothing to compare to for life of chains and bars. 

k


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## SWI Don (Jul 23, 2008)

I have used clean hydraulic oil - used but clean, in the winter. It has about the same apparent viscosity as Stihl winter grade and the price is free. When it is warm, regular bar oil is the norm. 

As far as veggie oil is concerned unless you are an everyday user be cautious as the veggie oil will oxidise and turn to a waxy consistancy if allowed to sit too long. I have a good friend that had a saw that gummed up to the point it would no longer oil. This experience was with Husqvarna oil so other brands and newer blends may be better now.


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## ray benson (Jul 23, 2008)

Try canola oil.


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## Stihl 041S (Jul 25, 2008)

the hydr saws I've used took oil from the hydr system to lube the bar. condtant trimming and got great life on the b&c. In other saws I use bar oil. The o-rings in tractor valves...............Buna N. Last for years.
Rob


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## Bruce Hopf (Jul 26, 2008)

avalanche said:


> I recently stopped by a logging crew that is working in our area, I clean up all the pieces cut off the ends of logs at the knuckle boom before they load the trucks(and get some nice wood too!) and noticed one of the guys pumping hydraulic oil from a drum into a one gallon container. Then he sauntered over to his saw on the tailgate and filled up the oil reservoir. I asked him about it, and he said hydraulic oil by the drum is far cheaper than bar oil, and works just as good. Anyone use this stuff, or know if its as good as genuine bar oil?
> I buy my stuff from Walmart, the cheapest place in town. they have one gallon jugs for 5 bucks and some change, and seems to work just fine. Wondered if hydraulic oil is really cheaper by the drum?



Hydraulic Oil is a lot cheaper by the drum. Hydraulic Oil is not as thick, or as tacky as Bar Oil though. Even I have Hydraulic oil in the drum in the shop for my Tractors, I still use, and recommend you keep using Bar Oil. I won't run any thing but the proper oil in my saws. Remember that Hydraulic Oil is for moving Hydraulic Cylinders back and forth, where not much lubrication is not needed. Your Bar and Chain need to have lubrication, because of the high heat caused by the intense friction of the running chain at high speeds. Bruce.


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## spencerhenry (Jul 27, 2008)

bottom line is bar oil is bar oil, hydraulic is hydraulic. the best bar oil i have found is poulan from walmart. it is sticky and stringy when its cold, its like melted cheese. stihl oil is also very good oil, but the poulan costs $5.83 a gallon at wally world, and stihl oil is around $8. if i thought stihl oil was better, i would pay the extra. i make my living with my saws and with that, i dont need problems. i use about 20 to 30 gallons of bar oil a year even if i could get hydraulic oil for less than $6 a gallon, the savings would be very slight. so if some of you are using a couple of gallons a year what do you save? a dollar or two per year?


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## Bruce Hopf (Jul 27, 2008)

spencerhenry said:


> bottom line is bar oil is bar oil, hydraulic is hydraulic. the best bar oil i have found is poulan from walmart. it is sticky and stringy when its cold, its like melted cheese. stihl oil is also very good oil, but the poulan costs $5.83 a gallon at wally world, and stihl oil is around $8. if i thought stihl oil was better, i would pay the extra. i make my living with my saws and with that, i dont need problems. i use about 20 to 30 gallons of bar oil a year even if i could get hydraulic oil for less than $6 a gallon, the savings would be very slight. so if some of you are using a couple of gallons a year what do you save? a dollar or two per year?


I agree with you totally. Another thing to look at is that Hydraulic Oil, does not have a very high Viscosity Rating as compared to Bar Oil. Therefore, there will be a lot more wear on the Chain, and Bar. For what you will save on Oil, You will Definitely Spend More Replacing Your Bar, and Chain. In my opinion any way. Bruce.


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## abohac (Jul 27, 2008)

avalancher said:


> I recently stopped by a logging crew that is working in our area, I clean up all the pieces cut off the ends of logs at the knuckle boom before they load the trucks(and get some nice wood too!) and noticed one of the guys pumping hydralic oil from a drum into a one gallon container. Then he sauntered over to his saw on the tailgate and filled up the oil reservoir. I asked him about it, and he said hydralic oil by the drum is far cheaper than bar oil, and works just as good. Anyone use this stuff, or know if its as good as genuine bar oil?
> I buy my stuff from Walmart, the cheapest place in town. they have one gallon jugs for 5 bucks and some change, and seems to work just fine. Wondered if hydralic oil is really cheaper by the drum?



I don't know what kind of Hydro oil he's using but we buy it by the 55 gal drum and it is not cheaper than bar oil. Also, I'm not willing to wreck an oiler on my saw so I'm going to stick with what I'm using. I have had a problem with Husky oil not doing the job in the summer and hydro oil is alot thinner than regular bar oil so I'm pretty sure that you'd have trouble with anything big (wood) with your bar getting hot.


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## abohac (Jul 27, 2008)

spencerhenry said:


> bottom line is bar oil is bar oil, hydraulic is hydraulic. the best bar oil i have found is poulan from walmart. it is sticky and stringy when its cold, its like melted cheese. stihl oil is also very good oil, but the poulan costs $5.83 a gallon at wally world, and stihl oil is around $8. if i thought stihl oil was better, i would pay the extra. i make my living with my saws and with that, i dont need problems. i use about 20 to 30 gallons of bar oil a year even if i could get hydraulic oil for less than $6 a gallon, the savings would be very slight. so if some of you are using a couple of gallons a year what do you save? a dollar or two per year?



I have to agree with you. I put hydro oil in the hydro tank. Bar oil in the bar oil tank.


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## avalancher (Jul 29, 2008)

Well, I am glad that everyone seems to agree with me on this issue. Trust me, I never once really considered switching to hydralic oil, even if its cheaper. I was just curious about the fact really. 
In reality, I would spend years going through 55 gallons of oil for the bar. I really dont know how much bar oil I use in a year, a lot depends on how much time I get to cut, how much wood I locate for the year, etc. I have always bought my oil at walmart, it does the job, cheap enough, and I havent experienced any premature wear to bars and chains to warrant switching to the more spendy brands of oil.
Besides, its always been a whole easier to have the oil delivered right to my house. I add it to the wifes grocery list and it shows up on the backporch within a day or two. I reckon I would have to go get the drum myself!


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