# Arborist TEST question



## Frans (Jul 21, 2004)

What is the single most consistant, adverse environmental impact on trees in the urban setting no matter what the species or growing location?

Frans


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## murphy4trees (Jul 21, 2004)

Acid rain.... least around here anyway...


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## TreeJunkie (Jul 21, 2004)

Drought possibly. Or it could be soil compaction or possibly pollution which is it?


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## rumination (Jul 21, 2004)

I second what Rocky said. People with chainsaws. Around here at least...


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## Frans (Jul 21, 2004)

Come on think about it...
Rocky and murphy: are chainsaws and acid rain affecting more trees than not in the urban setting NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE GROWING?
Tree Junkie is going in the right direction but I dont want to give any more hints at this stage
Frans


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## rumination (Jul 21, 2004)

Well, the correct TEST answer is probably soil compaction, or root restriction/damage, or something like that. 

In reality though, around here, any tree that gets away without being topped is doing pretty good. Even though you were trying to be funny Rocky, I think you were, unfortunately, correct.

And yes, around here, NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE GROWING, trees are susceptible to hacks with chainsaws.


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## Frans (Jul 21, 2004)

But Rumination not all trees in the urban landscape are hacked with chainsaws.
This question is to my knowledge not an "ISA"
test question.
I was just trying to think of the answer myself.

to put up a multiple choice question would be the same as thinking the folks on this board are "below average" because in my opinion even a monkey has a good chance to pass a test with multiple choice questions. 
I think alot more of most of the folks on this board.
It does seem that others are thinking along the same lines as me.
I believe without any reservations that the single most adverse environmental condition affecting trees in the urban landscape no matter where it is growing is: 
SOIL COMPACTION
Which leaves me to wonder, how come there is so much debate regarding the use of mulch around trees
I dont get it
Frans


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## rumination (Jul 21, 2004)

Sounds like I misunderstood the context of your question, Frans. You are probably right. Soil problems are probably the most prevalent adversity affecting trees in the urban environemt, even more so than hacks with chainsaws . I'm just feeling a little negative about the general state of tree work around here today. 



So, by all means...please pass the mulch!


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## murphy4trees (Jul 21, 2004)

Acid rain causes soil problems... And soil compaction is a real problem...


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## Frans (Jul 21, 2004)

I agree acid rain causes alot of problems
but is not universal throughout all landscapes in all locations
Frans


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## murphy4trees (Jul 21, 2004)

What makes you say that???

It may not be the "same" in all locations, but still be universal...

The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike...


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## TreeJunkie (Jul 22, 2004)

Did anyone think of poor nursery stock/ improper planting. Seems like lately i'm coming across this more often than compaction.


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## Frans (Jul 22, 2004)

Interesting web link
I looked up Ca. and found this: http://www.nrdc.org/air/pollution/bt/hotavg.asp


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## murphy4trees (Jul 22, 2004)

I wonder how philly air rates compared to standing in back of a chipper, running deadwood and sycamore etc... I wear a respirator!!!

And i do remember coming in to philly from Northern Ca., getting off the plane and driving by the refineries and thinking... THIS IS UGLY....

Then years later working at a refinery in Deleaware... noticed that as soon as the regular shift crew left and the place was mostly empty, they let out the gas.... barely tolerable....

Again, wearing a respirator=good idea.... just ask anyone attached to an 02 tank for the rest of their lives...


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## Gord (Jul 22, 2004)

I think that soil disturbance/compaction would be a better answer...i see a lot more dead trees due to soil being dug up in the root zone than due to soil compaction.


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## Nathan Wreyford (Jul 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Frans _
> * no matter what the species or growing location?
> *



Alanthus doesn't really have problems with compaction. Kinda spoils the test question. eh? I agree it is important, but there are exceptions.


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## arboromega (Jul 22, 2004)

you gotta give more time frans...i was going to guess at your question but you posted the answer before i was even done reading the first page. i would have said compaction though - big problem around here with new construction. ive topped, oh excuse me, drop crotched so much dead wood out of dying forest tree due to soil compaction...they do come back though after the pruning and a few years of working on the soil.


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## Frans (Jul 22, 2004)

ALANTHUS = (tree of heaven) more like:
TREE OF HELL
Frans


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## Nathan Wreyford (Jul 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Frans _
> *ALANTHUS = (tree of heaven) more like:
> TREE OF HELL
> Frans *



Ghetto Palm


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## Reed (Jul 22, 2004)

Have to keep in mind the notion of constants. There isn't any.

Sure...baseball, iron railroad tressles, vanilla ice cream, and the American way seem like permanent fixtures but they're not. Adaptive changes occur in relative time, relative to our measurements. The 200-plus glaciers that inspired Glacier National park were considered 'ancient' - a remnant of the Laurentian ice period. Less than 100 years later there remain only 20-something. Rapid change when compared to beaches becoming sandstone or granite resulting from magma. 

Acid rainfall? All rain measured is acidic. Fronts determine movement and point sources become obscure when distance doesn't just dilute but transport. When Cheyrnobal went liquid Wisconsin went radioactive, four months after - enough so that milk was recalled and destroyed. Sunlight is a main factor in presenting a leaf surface and metamorphistic abilities with some real challenges, genetic alterations required to adapt but they aren't as quick as the differences occuring between how well we tanned in the 60's and how quick we burn in the 90's. 

Did you know that impact alone changes chemistry of a raindrop? And collision against a leaf surface versus splattering on concrete will produce measurable differences in pH? Also a copper roof, aluminum sheets, or a granite composition will change run-off more than a quart of oil in a one-acre farm pond? 

Don't forget bird poop either.


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## Frans (Jul 22, 2004)

Interesting philosophy Oakwilt. Its not really related to a tree growing within a yard or parking lot/strip, etc. but I do share these same ideas.
Rocky what I liked about your 'in jest' answer of chainsaws being the most detrimental factor in tree decline is; I cannot figure out if there is ANY bug or disease that can deceminate a tree faster than a hack with a chainsaw
Frans


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## murphy4trees (Jul 22, 2004)

How about this tidbit...
All bovine bone meal in the US is contaminated with lead... leftover in all the soil everywhere from leaded gas....

Except New Zealand... their bone meal is clean....

Hey Oakwilt..
did you ever hear the theory that all the rock face that showed up when the Himilayas poked up is altering ocean chemistry... 

All that rock leaching minerals, I believe acidic, into the ocean.. I think that has been widely accepted...


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## M.D. Vaden (Jul 22, 2004)

I'd say soil compaction / construction related soil damage of the same nature.


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## Frans (Jul 22, 2004)

MD VADEN YOU MADE THE GRADE!
In my opinion, the single most adverse environmental condition effecting trees in the urban landscape is:
SOIL COMPACTION
Frans


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## TreeJunkie (Jul 23, 2004)

Ok Next Question Please...


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## Gopher (Jul 23, 2004)

*And the winner is...*

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust; 
the earth is where we come from, so the soil we live on is a must!!!

So, this is not the brightest line I will ever write;
bring on the acid rain, bring it tonight,

For here where I call my home the midwest,
our pH levels are high following a soil test.

Therefore, as we ponder another question or two,
are your hydrangeas pink, white or blue?!

In the soil lies our answers one and all, 
every tree is affected, from big to small;

On vertisol, on hapludol on alfisol I say
know your soils, and the trees will play!

Move it, abuse it and often we compact,
the soil needs our help, so please let us act.

Try reading soil taxonomy before heading to bed;
it will leave great "dirty" thoughts dancing in your head!

Good night all! No, I'm not going to read my "Soil Taxonomy" tonight. Can't you tell, my brain is lready to far gone...!

Gopher


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## SteveBullman (Jul 23, 2004)

lets not forget good old dogs piss


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## Reed (Jul 23, 2004)

"On vertisol, on hapludol on alfisol I say
know your soils, and the trees will play!"

Descriptive basics. The first book anyone should read as a 3th grader soaking-up wisdom. Oh, wait a minute...is Barney The Purple Dinosaur still on t.v.? 

However things have changed. A lot. 

One thing that's been revolutionary (at least as significant in changing culture as the telescope) is that we have the capability to detect down to the parts/per/quadrillion range. That means we can see what we make and how long it lasts and maybe figure how it got there. Most importantly, what's it doing by being there. 

Wow. Lot's of stuff and maybe importantly, stuff that we find that came from nowhere but here, manufactured or discarded and some forgotten and others unavoidable. If it becomes so small, so dilute that a ppq is necessary to find it and find it in places sources can't connect from, then we need to start thinking about what is we we're doing here by being here. 

Until now.

So we study flows and patterns and movement then releases. If something's here and it had to come from there, then how? That leads to other questions, and asking those leads to more. I don't know about you guys but the data I check every once and awhile all compiles to present some pretty serious and rapid changes that we need to consider, some at some point and lot's of it now.

Disease epidemics are interesting too - the flow and patterns are studied differently than the pathology of the disease. Waiting to have one is failure number one because we've ignored the smaller systems whose functions dictate everything larger. When they change so does everything else, sometimes insignificant, sometimes catastrophic, but all related, the ripple from a source. Ebola from isolated protection until we started having to eat more monkeys because more people have to close-in on them 'cause the roads now go there. Ripple. 

Coral is interesting too, studied only for it's beauty until it's dying now - and close observations and detecting abilities and melding some other data together to see that it's not just a pretty place to spear fish, it's part a system that performs in necessity for all - as a result of all.


Opps. Action enforces hope.


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## Frans (Jul 23, 2004)

Hey Gord,
Are you saying that, universely, across the board, you see more dead trees due to soil disturbance, than you see trees declining/distressed from soil compaction?
Just where do you live? in a monsterous track home development?
No I do not agree with your statement but prehaps you misunderstood the original question...
Frans


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## M.D. Vaden (Jul 25, 2004)

Tribute to Gopher...

He's climbing a tree, cause the foliage is sparse,
And roped in real good, not to fall on his A..R..S..

This old hazard tree, has just got to go,
Attacked by compaction - wouldn't ya know.

No Arborist Site users, will drive by today,
So cutting some corners, may just seem okay.

But he knows that his ethics, need no stab in the back,
So safely he dismantles, the crumbling hatrack.


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## Gopher (Jul 25, 2004)

*ode to...*

I couldn't have said it better myself!

Gopher


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## Mchannebique (Jul 5, 2011)

*Availability*

The availability of soil and soil nutrients, we build concrete tombs around our urban trees and expect them to live we cut the roots for sidewalks and expect no windthrow. Yes acid rain and compaction allot of places don't see acid rain, compaction yes true but the amount of growing space for roots and the available water and nutrients is the answer.


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## the Aerialist (Jul 5, 2011)

*Busses and Trucks and Cars ~ Oh my...*

The number one universal problem with urban trees is vehicular traffic. Trees that are clipped by passing vehicles or outright smashed into. Of course the very presence of the various vehicles and the construction and reconstruction of the roads that carry them as well as the pollution they cause are also important factors.


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 6, 2011)

Simple, people do the most damage. No matter what form it comes in, it comes from us.


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## imagineero (Jul 6, 2011)

I'd say its the environment they are in - completely artificial. Trees in nature rarely grow in isolated monoculture envornoments. They compete, compliment, and cohabitate with other plants and animals above and below, in a complete ecosystem.

A few of the bigger and more noticeable effects of urban trees having so much space, light, water and access to CO2 are that they grow way too fast, and assume unnatural and unsupportable shapes. This is a good thing for tree workers who need work, but trees in nature don't need pruning generally, they grow in a way that they don't require weight reduction on limbs. I've done removals on trees you would guess to be 50~60 years old that were only 25. An inch or more between some of the growth rings! Far too much spread and foliage to ever be able to carry their own weight.

Shaun


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