# Rope climbing questions



## Garden Of Eden (Aug 24, 2009)

So, as I'm climbing more and more, I'm feeling lots more comfortable trying new things. I'm curious though if the way I'm doing this is safe.

Right now, I climb like so: I tie a clove hitch to my carabiner, clipped to my harness. The tail, goes to a Blake's hitch, with a figure 8 at the end of the line. Above my Blake's I have a prussic loop loose(kinda open) so it slides with my Blake's. It does grab if I load it real quick, I always test it before I'm in the tree. My prussic loop is attached to my harness also, different Carabiner, different D of the harness.

Does this seem safe? When I get into the tree I tie in again, so I'm tied twice.

Thanks everyone,

Jeff


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## lego1970 (Aug 24, 2009)

As long as the two friction hitches don't bump into each other and cause each other to loose the ability to cinch up on the rope then I guess it's safe. Personally I would ditch the pursik knot. It takes awhile to learn to trust the Blake knot or any one friction knot but in the long run it make your climbing smoother and if you have to get out of the tree quickly it will be easier to deal with one hitch. Likewise with the double tie in. Sometimes I double tie in when trying to walk out on a limb or just plain don't trust something, but you should be able to safely do most tree work with a single tie in. Use your lanyard as much as possible until you learn to trust your rope and hitch. Keep in mind that I've had the back end of full size p/u trucks lift off the ground when pulling a tree over useing OLD climbing lines, so that I ought tell you how strong those climbing lines are. Good luck and hopefull somebody else will chime in about the dual hitches with better info.


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## moss (Aug 24, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Does this seem safe? When I get into the tree I tie in again, so I'm tied twice.
> 
> Thanks everyone,
> 
> Jeff



I think it's overkill, a correctly tied and set Blake's is very safe as is without backup. I would be concerned that the hitch above the Blake's might accidentally pull the Blake's down if you snagged the prusik tether on something. Low percentage possibility but it's useful to be aware that sometimes trying to be more safe can create additional hazards. Simplicity with proven technique is a good path to follow.
-moss


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## Garden Of Eden (Aug 24, 2009)

K. I see what you're saying now about them banging into each other. I can see that as a problem if it overlaps or something similar at just the right moment. 

Lego, I totally trust the Blake's. It feels so solid. I was just trying to be "overkill." lol I tend to do that over-engineering thing a lot. About limb-walking though. Most of the time, I lower myself to the limb, rather than "walk" it. Sometimes if it is big enough I will walk, but a lot of times, i just drop to it.

Thanks again.

Jeff


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## m.green (Aug 30, 2009)

Garden Of Eden said:


> So, as I'm climbing more and more, I'm feeling lots more comfortable trying new things. I'm curious though if the way I'm doing this is safe.
> 
> Right now, I climb like so: I tie a clove hitch to my carabiner, clipped to my harness. The tail, goes to a Blake's hitch, with a figure 8 at the end of the line. Above my Blake's I have a prussic loop loose(kinda open) so it slides with my Blake's. It does grab if I load it real quick, I always test it before I'm in the tree. My prussic loop is attached to my harness also, different Carabiner, different D of the harness.
> 
> ...



I think your method is fine.


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## Nailsbeats (Aug 30, 2009)

You need to ditch the prussic if you want to be efficient. I don't know of a single climber that does what you are describing. One hitch, learn it, use it, trust it.

On the limbwalking thing, you haven't climbed much if you think you can just drop down on a limb that needs to be walked out on. Sounds to me like you aren't working the tips. Check my avatar, you gonna drop down on that limb? Forget about it.


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## arborist (Aug 30, 2009)

i wouldn't use a clove hitch to attach a snap/carabiner.
i suppose you could if you added a couple half hitches,but don't you notice it keep's rolling down the line lol? better knots suited for this.i always preferred the bowline myself.

yeah,like Nailsbeats says,why use the prussic with a blakes? perhaps I'm to old school,but why not one or the other here?


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## oldirty (Aug 30, 2009)

m.green said:


> I think your method is fine.



wow.

you work for lewis huh? lol.


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## Blakesmaster (Aug 30, 2009)

arborist said:


> i wouldn't use a clove hitch to attach a snap/carabiner.
> i suppose you could if you added a couple half hitches,but don't you notice it keep's rolling down the line lol? better knots suited for this.i always preferred the bowline myself.
> 
> yeah,like Nailsbeats says,why use the prussic with a blakes? perhaps I'm to old school,but why not one or the other here?



When I climbed on the blakes I would just use a clove hitch as described, quick to tie to a biner if you have a long tail and I never experienced any issue with it rolling. Probably depends on your climb line though.


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## Tree Pig (Aug 30, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> When I climbed on the blakes I would just use a clove hitch as described, quick to tie to a biner if you have a long tail and I never experienced any issue with it rolling. Probably depends on your climb line though.



The guy I learned to climb from used the clove to the biner to a tauntline for 20 years and he is still using it so I think you will be safe.

as a matter of fact it is even mentioned in the tree climbers companion


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## Bermie (Sep 5, 2009)

One friction hitch...BUT

T.I.T.S 

Tie In Twice Stupid!

As you are a newbie, use your lanyard in addition to your climb line for a secondary attachment any time you need to stop, reposition or do any cutting. 
Actually I am not a newbie and I still work with TITS!


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## treemandan (Sep 5, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> You need to ditch the prussic if you want to be efficient. I don't know of a single climber that does what you are describing. One hitch, learn it, use it, trust it.
> 
> On the limbwalking thing, you haven't climbed much if you think you can just drop down on a limb that needs to be walked out on. Sounds to me like you aren't working the tips. Check my avatar, you gonna drop down on that limb? Forget about it.



a great shot Nails.


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## treemandan (Sep 5, 2009)

lego1970 said:


> As long as the two friction hitches don't bump into each other and cause each other to loose the ability to cinch up on the rope then I guess it's safe. Personally I would ditch the pursik knot. It takes awhile to learn to trust the Blake knot or any one friction knot but in the long run it make your climbing smoother and if you have to get out of the tree quickly it will be easier to deal with one hitch. Likewise with the double tie in. Sometimes I double tie in when trying to walk out on a limb or just plain don't trust something, but you should be able to safely do most tree work with a single tie in. Use your lanyard as much as possible until you learn to trust your rope and hitch. Keep in mind that I've had the back end of full size p/u trucks lift off the ground when pulling a tree over useing OLD climbing lines, so that I ought tell you how strong those climbing lines are. Good luck and hopefull somebody else will chime in about the dual hitches with better info.



Most trees with a single TIP? Really?


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## lego1970 (Sep 5, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Most trees with a single TIP? Really?



I should of worded that different. You should have two tie in points when useing chainsaw, but otherwise the OP should trust just one tie in point.


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## chemist (Sep 10, 2009)

moss said:


> I think it's overkill, a correctly tied and set Blake's is very safe as is without backup. I would be concerned that the hitch above the Blake's might accidentally pull the Blake's down if you snagged the prusik tether on something. Low percentage possibility but it's useful to be aware that sometimes trying to be more safe can create additional hazards. Simplicity with proven technique is a good path to follow.
> -moss



that is a really good point. overdoing it can lead to jams and tangles and confusion it at some point especially when you are stressed.


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## Josh777 (May 11, 2010)

arborist said:


> i wouldn't use a clove hitch to attach a snap/carabiner.
> i suppose you could if you added a couple half hitches,but don't you notice it keep's rolling down the line lol? better knots suited for this.i always preferred the bowline myself.
> 
> yeah,like Nailsbeats says,why use the prussic with a blakes? perhaps I'm to old school,but why not one or the other here?




Yeah there's not to much problem using the clove hitch, but a bowline doesn't meet with ansi standards if I understand it right, because it's not a cinching attachment like say an anchor hitch. Personally, I'm fine with a bowline and don't think much of it when rec climbing, but if a person does this for a business they may be accountable for using the bowline. In my understanding a cinching knot like the anchor hitch is used to prevent the rope from escaping the biner in the event that the gate were to become momentarily open. When loaded the knot will hold the crotch of the biner tightly and not allow the rope to escape.


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## Damon (May 11, 2010)

Josh777 said:


> Yeah there's not to much problem using the clove hitch, but a bowline doesn't meet with ansi standards if I understand it right, because it's not a cinching attachment like say an anchor hitch. Personally, I'm fine with a bowline and don't think much of it when rec climbing, but if a person does this for a business they may be accountable for using the bowline. In my understanding a cinching knot like the anchor hitch is used to prevent the rope from escaping the biner in the event that the gate were to become momentarily open. When loaded the knot will hold the crotch of the biner tightly and not allow the rope to escape.



Im gonna have to agree with josh on this one if you are gonna use something lie a bowline at least use a figure 8 on a bight personally i always tie my split tails with a double fishermans and i usually put a stoper in it just in case you can never be to careful when it comes to that stuff

i have use a clove before and have never really had a problem with it rolling but i know that it can i think that is another knot that when attached to a biner should be backed up by either a stoper or a couple half hitches

Tom


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## rarefish383 (May 13, 2010)

I guess I'm way old school. My saddle has double D rings, the hip rings for my flip line. I use the center rings for my climbing line. I used to use a locking snap with about a 40" tail and a taughline hitch and figure 8 in the end. A biner would work fine. I quit usining the snap when I through it over a limb and it smacked me in the mouth. Sometimes you need more than 2 hands. Now, I just tie my line to the D's with a couple half hitches and leave the 40" tail, etc. It is slow when retying, but production is not on my mind nowadays, Joe.


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