# what realy is the best rip chain



## timberwolf (Sep 4, 2002)

What realy is the best style of rip chains? what are some of the pros and cons with regard to eficiency, maintainability, cost, longevity, saw wear and opperator danger? 

As I talk with differnt folks, and the guys at a couple of the local saw shops I find several differnt opinions on what style of rip chain is best. Bering in mind im ripping mostly 10-24 inch softwoods and softer hardwoods using a Stihl 066 with ether a 20" or 32" bar

---shop 1 recomends low profile "pmx" (I think) chain (I Thought this was ??? on a stihl 066 with a longer bar). Apparently a bit pricy as it not a stock item for them.

---shop 2 takes standard semi chisle chain and regrinds to 10 degrees, they seemed to know what they were talking about and charged ~20 bucks for the service.

---shop 3 can order some pricy chisle chain (~70$ for 105 drive links) with alternate top plates removed, the remainder of the cutter ground to 20 degrees, and the other teeth ground to 0 degrees. Though another guy at the same shop sugests chisle chain square filed all top plates to 0 degrees with a 50 degree point and the sides to 20-25 degrees.

---shop4 looked at me like I was from mars, they did not seem to understand why anyone would want to cut a log lengthwise, and were more intersted in trying to sell me a weed wacker or a skidoo.

and of the individuals I have talked to one says just use a skip tooth chain, another says use a regular chain but keep it sharp and drop the rakers a bit. 

and then there are specialty chains available through granberg, ripsaw and others.


What is realy the best way to go, any advise that might save me time money and agravation would be appreciated.

Timberwolf


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## Oregon_Rob (Sep 4, 2002)

*Try this*

http://www.*****************/cgi-bi...sawmill;action=display;num=995596176;start=13


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## WOLF_RIVER_MIKE (Sep 4, 2002)

I have a very limited experience with ripping chains, but was impressed with Baileys RIP 50 30RP. low profile chain they recommend for bars under 32". 29cents/DL


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## Kevin (Sep 4, 2002)

I only buy factory ground ripping chain, I`ve seen too many guys destroy good chain trying to modify it with a grinder.
They take the hardness out of the cutters.
Full skip Oregon RA is what I`m using after trying several others.
Cuts clean, stays sharp and takes the abuse.


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## Robert (Sep 4, 2002)

I've used four different styles of ripping chain. The first was the Granberg style that was made by a local saw shop (cutter, 2 scoring teeth, cutter, and so on). I tried this on my neighbor's Stihl 039 with a 24" bar and his Husky 3120 with a 36" bar. For me it wasn't very fast or smooth. Maybe it was not ground correctly by the shop. The second was Bailey's low profile chain (I think they sell the same chain reground as a ripping chain now), .370 pitch, .050 gauge, which I reground to 10° across the top and 45° side angle. I ran this on a Husky 2100 with a 32" Sandvik bar. It cut fast and smooth and held an edge pretty well. The only problem that started to develop was the inside edges of the bar rails started to wear down really fast. I think a 32" bar on that large of a saw is really pushing it for that small chain. I wrecked the chain on a Harbor Freight lumber maker and shortly thereafter sold the saw so I don't have a long term test result for it. The third, and my favorite, is Oregon 52L (.404 x .063) full comp. round chisel that I grind to 0°across the top with a 50° side angle. I’ve used this in my 084 with a 36” bar with very good results in oak and pine. The forth is Oregon 27A (.404 x .063, Micro-Chisel Skiptooth) ground the same as the 52L. I’m running this on the 084 with a 50” bar cutting 40”+ red oak. It seems to be pretty good but I don’t have anything to compare it to - I’ve never cut anything this big. I bought it because Oregon doesn’t make the 52L anymore. I’ve since found a half roll of 52L and am in the process of making a ripping chain for the longer bar so I can compare the two. I’ve also traded the 084 for a 090.

With your saw and bar combo I would try the low profile from Bailey’s, at least with the shorter bar. Of course that depends on the gauge of your bar. The .370 runs fine on .375 sprocket and rim.

Hey Kevin, where did you find the RA? I’ve heard about it but can’t find anybody that sells it. In fact, I can’t find anybody locally that even carries Oregon chain in bulk.


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## Oregon_Rob (Sep 4, 2002)

So far I have heard a couple votes for the 0° cutters, I will have to give it a try.


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## slabberman (Sep 4, 2002)

G'day,

Kevin put me onto the Oregon RA, and its brilliant. Ive got a jpg that I could email you with some info on this chain. Its a bit large to post here, and if I reduce the quality, you prolly wont be able to read it. Email me if you want it.
Cheers
Charlie.


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## don (Sep 5, 2002)

*I like to see the specs on the chain*

Please email me the pic/jpeg at [email protected]


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## Oregon_Rob (Sep 5, 2002)

Thanks Slaberman!
Here is the JPG, I hope!


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## Kevin (Sep 5, 2002)

To the best of my knowledge you can only get Oregon full skip RA from a Husqvarna dealer.
My dealer has it if you can`t find any elsewhere.
Oregon reps I have spoken with won`t even admit they have it.
I have purchased Oregon RA chains in 050 and 058.


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## Oregon_Rob (Sep 5, 2002)

Can you get it in 3/8? I only see .325 & .404.


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## Kevin (Sep 5, 2002)

Yes, 3/8 pitch is available.
That is what I`m using.


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## Robert (Sep 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kevin _
> *To the best of my knowledge you can only get Oregon full skip RA from a Husqvarna dealer.
> 
> My Husky dealer (the only full service dealer that even carries bulk chain) only has Carlton chain. Do any of the online or mailorder places have it? Of course it looks like I already have it by taking the 27A and adding the R myself. Do you hand file or use a grinder? I agree with most folks here that hand filing is the way to go with crosscut chain but I think the grinder works better with ripping chain, especially if you modify the wheel ala Will Malloff.
> Sorry, didn't mean to open that can of worms!*


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## Kevin (Sep 5, 2002)

I use a grinder to even up the cutters if they get too long on one side or the other but generally I file.
I`m extremely careful not to generate too much heat when I use the grinder.
I`m a bit of a fanatic when I file, I`ll blacken the edge of the cutter with a black marking pen so I can see exactly where the metal is being removed. 
I only take the top plate to 10o. 
It works well for me so I don`t see a need to change anything.


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## Robert (Sep 5, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Kevin _
> *It works well for me so I don`t see a need to change anything. *



Amen to that. I almost always use the grinder but I go really slow, not taking off very much at a time and not letting the wheel stay on the cutter for very long so it doesn't get too hot. It takes me forever to sharpen and almost all day to regrind a new chain. I do use a hand file to touch up every now and then. When I get better at it I'm sure I'll use it more often for touching up.


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## Kevin (Sep 5, 2002)

Robert,
As I understand it ...
RA was developed for one or more countries in Europe,I`m not sure why, when or where but Husqvarna Forest and Garden was the company that requested Oregon make the chain for a special market.
I just happened to stumble on it a few years ago and after testing it,ended up buying several loops of it that will last me many moons to come.


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## Robert (Sep 5, 2002)

What are the top and side angles of the RA chain as comes from from the factory? Do you keep the same angles as you file?
The 10º top angle worked well for the low profile chain but I haven't tried it with the big chain.

Also, if you could email me the info. about your dealer I might have to try a loop.


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## slabberman (Sep 6, 2002)

G'day Kevin,

I guess Im lucky then, as I can get 25' rolls of it here (thats .404, dont know about the 3/8). I was inquiring about the .404, when they sent me that pic, so theres prolly a sheet for the 3/8 too.
Best tip I ever got, that chain! Thanks Kevin! 
Cheers
Charlie.


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## slabberman (Sep 6, 2002)

G'day Robert,

This pic may answer your angle questions.
Oh, I see now the photo limit has gone up drastically, so I could have posted the original one originally! 
Cheers
Charlie.


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## don (Sep 6, 2002)

*Slabberman What kind of wood are you milling?*

What kind of wood are you milling down under?
Is there allot of wood or allot of government control.?


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## slabberman (Sep 6, 2002)

G'day don,

We have a huge amount of timber here. Massive amounts of planted Monterey Pine (Pinus Radiata). That export market is one of our biggest.
There are very tight controls on the milling of native trees. Kauri (Agathis australis),is the most controlled, and very hard to come by these days for milling. Therefore, any for sale is extremely expensive. Rimu (Dacrydium Cypressinum) is headed the same way. Almost all logging of Rimu has now been halted.
Other natives that I have milled - mainly wind-blown, subsidence etc - are the Totara (Podocarpus totara), Kaihikatea (Dacrycarpus dacrydioides) and Puriri (Vitex lucens). Puriri is a very grey coloured wood, and is extremely hard. Once dry, its almost impossible to cut! Back in the pioneer days, they used Puriri for fence posts, straight in the ground, and many are still there today.
Exotic trees include the Macrocarpa (Lawson Cypress), many varities of the Australian Eucalyptus, Douglas Fir, Alders and Wattles. This is a small selection of what we have here.
This web site has some photos of a lot of wood found here, to give you an idea of colours and grains.

http://generation-4.co.nz/timber.html

Cheers
Charlie


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## Flyrod (Sep 6, 2002)

Slabberman, NZ has always looked like a paradise to me, especially with your trout fishing. I've always wondered what kind of biting insects, if any, that you have down there. Just curious.


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## slabberman (Sep 6, 2002)

G'day Flyrod,

You would be in heaven if your into trout! We have amazing rainbow trout fishing here, especially around Lake Taupo, the big lake in the centre of the North Island. It is overseen by the Dept of Conservation, and restocking programmes are ongoing. People do come from all over the world to fish here. The South Island has reputedly the best brown trout fishing anywhere.
As for bity things, there are basically none. The is one area of the North Island west coast beaches where you can find the Katipo spider, which is poisonous, but I have never heard of anyone getting bitten by one. No snakes etc here. The Ministry of Agricuture and Forestry, run massive bio-security programmes here to try and stop any nasties getting in throught the airports (eg some people traditionally take gifts of fruit to their hosts!!, a big no no here, with the bugs it can carry), and container imports etc.
Agricuture is our biggest export, so they want to protect that. Starting GE foods and crops are in the news here right now, at the moment we are GE crop free.
Bit off topic!! Woops.
Cheers
Charlie.


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## don (Sep 6, 2002)

*No snakes ?*

Whats the deal with you guys having no snakes and Australia having more snakes than humans?


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## slabberman (Sep 6, 2002)

G'day don,

Not really sure. It seems that in Aussie, if you look at a bug sideways, it will bite and kill you! Our climate is more temperate than 'over the ditch'. Maybe thats a factor.
The scariest bug to me, we have here is the bush weta. Likes living in old trees. Great for someone who works with wood!! They tend to leap if disturbed. Hopefully away from me, although Ive had a few land on me. I will try and find a pic to post.
Cheers
Charlie.


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## slabberman (Sep 7, 2002)

G'day don,
Found a photo of the weta. Its full name is Wetapunga, which translates roughly to "God of ugly things". 
Cheers
Charlie.


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## Flyrod (Sep 8, 2002)

Slabberman, That Weta looks like a Cricket, which I have millions of in my yard this time of year. I wasn't so much asking about poisonous creatures, but annoying blood sucking bugs like Black Flies, Mosquitos and Ticks. If you live in a land that doesn't have any, you truly live in a paradise. Do you have any Whitetail Deer? Thanks for the info.


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## slabberman (Sep 8, 2002)

G'dat Flyrod,

You do realise that weta in the picture is up to 7" long (one variety)!!?? 
We have mosquitos, sandflies and the occasional horse-fly. As with anywhere, some areas are worse than others. I dont know about Whitetail deer, but we do have red and sika deer, mountain thar and wild pigs for hunting. Tourists come to shoot/hunt here a lot. Garaunteed (?) a trophy head at some places.
A favourite pastime here is to take your pig-dogs into the bush, they find and bale up the wild pig, and the hunter usually uses a knife to kill the pig. Somebody normally carries a rifle just in case.
Cheers
Charlie.


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## slabberman (Sep 8, 2002)

G'dat Flyrod,

You do realise that weta in the picture is up to 7" long (one variety)!!?? 
We have mosquitos, sandflies and the occasional horse-fly. As with anywhere, some areas are worse than others. I dont know about Whitetail deer, but we do have red and sika deer, mountain thar and wild pigs for hunting. Tourists come to shoot/hunt here a lot. Garaunteed (?) a trophy head at some places.
A favourite pastime here is to take your pig-dogs into the bush, they find and bale up the wild pig, and the hunter usually uses a knife to kill the pig. Somebody normally carries a rifle just in case.
Cheers
Charlie.


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## Oregon_Rob (Sep 9, 2002)

*Back to ripping chain.*

I was looking around a little and couldn’t find anyone who carried the 3/8’s, skip type ripping chain from Oregon, so I e-mailed Oregon and got this reply.


Rob:

You are correct. No skip-tooth 3/8" ripping.

Best Regards,

George Ruggles
Technical Services Manager
Oregon(r) Cutting Systems


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## Kevin (Sep 9, 2002)

> Oregon reps I have spoken with won`t even admit they have it.


    

Rob you better stop talking about RA, I`m sure that Oregons special agents are en route to your house as we speak.
You can run but they`ll find you eventually.


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## Oregon_Rob (Sep 9, 2002)

Yea, I heard they can be ruthless. I don’t think they can afford to loose me as a customer though, I buy at least 5’ of chain a year. Heck, I think I should be demanding a high volume discount price!


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## timberwolf (Sep 11, 2002)

Well I tried my hand at making a rip chain.

Took a 20 inch 33RS chain that had bit a bit of barb wire but was only a bit scuffed. Removed every second top plate with a dremil, worked well. Then filed remaining top plates to 0deg, the sides of the scoring teeth to 35deg and the rakers to 30 thou on cutters and 40 on scoring teeth.

Tried the chain on three 12-15 inch poplar logs, and it seemed to rip quite well, smoother and somewhat faster than a sharp non ripping chain.

My question is would there be any advantage to putting an edge on the sides of the teeth filed to 0deg on the top plate (with a smaller diamiter file or down angle to avoid touching the top plate)? However I don't think that the sides of these teeth even contact any of the log because the teeth that are filed to 0deg are shortened back. Just seems draging a 0deg side of the tooth through the cut to be a waste, even if putting an edge on the sides just improves removal of chips it would be worth while. Should the scoring teeth be filed back to match the length of the 0deg cutters, wouldn't this narrow the kerf slightly and again make the sides of the 0deg cutter teeth viable for an edge making for a smother cut?

I think I will try to set up a chain with all top plates to 10deg for compairison. 

Thanks
Timberwolf


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## 046 (Jul 27, 2008)

anyone use a ripping chain for a chainsaw mill?


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## Lakeside53 (Jul 28, 2008)

yep.... You might want to check out the milling forum...


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## OilHead (Jul 28, 2008)

I turned some 36" full comp stihl chain into ripping chain. Using Grandberg"s angles 10 & zero on the chip clearers. As I recall the rakers on the chip cleaners were set .005 lower than the cutters. Wanted to have something in the arsenel for those knarly situations but my overall take on it so far is skip chain with the rakers set at .025 seems to stay sharp longer for the type of work it sees. Of course that was right off the grinder & am inclinded to think that next time out it will be better after being hand filed. Takes over 3 hours to make 1.


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## Lakeside53 (Jul 28, 2008)

I also make mine in the "granberg style", and use RM as the base (RS sucks as it dulls very quickly)


3 hours? You can do it in 30 minutes after the first one. A borazon wheel sure helps to strip off the side plates. We charge $30 to make up a 36 rippings chain, plus the chain...


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## stevethekiwi (Jul 28, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> I also make mine in the "granberg style", and use RM as the base (RS sucks as it dulls very quickly)
> 
> 
> 3 hours? You can do it in 30 minutes after the first one. A borazon wheel sure helps to strip off the side plates. We charge $30 to make up a 36 rippings chain, plus the chain...




geez lake, bet you dont even own a chainsaw mill!!! lol... i can see you fabricating one right now just to prove me wrong

i have tried many chain combinations. all work, some work better. you would be surprised how well 75LG works ripping in soft wood, even though you are not supposed too....  

I have found that there is no one right answer. the scoring / clearing cutter principle works really well for me, but then i get into bigger harder logs and find that std full skip ripping skip works slightly better. but then ill try the same log with 2 x 3120's instead of 2 x 395's and swap back to the scorer / clearer chain cos the motor can work that much harder. 

try your own combinations and go with what works. also 75CJX runs awesome, but doesnt leave the finish of the other chains. faster cut, but a PITA to sharpen!!!


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## Mad Professor (Jul 28, 2008)

046 said:


> anyone use a ripping chain for a chainsaw mill?




PMX chain on my 066/logosol M5


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## Zodiac45 (Jul 28, 2008)

I've been using the Bailey's Woodsman Pro (Carlton) ripping chain on my Alaskan set up. It's 3/8th .050 and 10 degree top plate angle at a 60 degree angle. It works pretty well for me. I'd like to try some of the Oregon RA/RD though too compare. Just not able too find any around here.


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