# Bandit chipper shutting down after about 15-20 minutes



## arbor pro

Recently, my 1993 bandit 200+ has started shutting down after running under a load for 15-20 minutes. The engine just shuts off at full rpm while I'm chipping. No sputtering like it's not getting fuel or spark. Just like someone walked over and shut off the key.

My local mechanic replaced the alternator with a smaller one as he said the old one was overcharging the battery and causing the amp guage to trip and shut it down. (During start up of the machine, you have to hold a battery voltage button in while turning the key and then release the button after it has started).

He tested the new alternator while idling for 1/2 hour and all was fine but he didn't test it under load (no way to). We ran it again and the same thing happened - shut down after 15-20 minutes.

Any have any ideas on what's going on here and what to do to correct the problem?

Motor is an 80hp cummins diesel. Chipper is 1993 200+. Battery is an 850cca farm industrial battery for diesel engines.

Thanks.

Scott


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## gilraine

if you put a fresh battery in it, does it restart and run????verify that the new alternator is charging, should be between 13.3-14.8 volts at the battery with the engine running..


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## ASD

TreeCo said:


> It's hotter than hell here!
> 
> It sounds like your high temperature shut off to me. Blow out the radiator good with an air hose from inside of the engine box if you can. You will have your hands in the engine fan so it's best to disconnect the battery so there is no accidental starting.This forces debris out the front...the way it came in.
> 
> 
> Fire up your chipper and dribble a water hose over the radiator or on to it near it's base if you want to test my theory. It should not over heat with the extra water cooling.
> 
> I believe the high temperature cut off on your cummins de-energizes the fuel solenoid killing the fuel supply to the engine.



+1
Also put a new cap on the radiator the spring on the can get week.


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## ArborquipSP

The button you have to push is a murphy switch it is hooked to the oil pressure and water temp guages when either one of there needles inside it touches the other terminal inside it the engine will shut down. example oil pressure droping below 15psi engine will shut down or water temp going over 210 degrees engine will shut down. Check those guages when it shuts down.

You should check the hood pin switch on top of your disc chamber( it looks like a trailer light plug) that take the power away from the key switch when it is unplugged. some times the terminals lose contact when the machine is vibrating. You can spread the terminals on the female half with a small screwdriver so they make a better conection. (un hook the battery first because if your screwdriver touches the housing you will possibly blow a fuse).

Some where on the fuel injection pump will be a solinoid that is controled by the murphy switch. It may be failing when it gets hot but working when it is cold.

Scott


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## Plyscamp

Might be a bit of a stretch, but check the vent on your fuel tank. That's about how long it takes to create enough vacuum to overpower the fuel pump if the vent is plugged.


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## arbor pro

All good suggestions. I'll check them out today. Ran the chipper this weekend with no problems but the chipper was in the shade and ran for only about 15-20 minutes at a time.

Thanks for the replies. I'll let you know what I find.

scott


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## tree MDS

TreeCo said:


> It's hotter than hell here!
> 
> It sounds like your high temperature shut off to me. Blow out the radiator good with an air hose from inside of the engine box if you can. You will have your hands in the engine fan so it's best to disconnect the battery so there is no accidental starting.This forces debris out the front...the way it came in.
> 
> 
> Fire up your chipper and dribble a water hose over the radiator or on to it near it's base if you want to test my theory. It should not over heat with the extra water cooling.
> 
> I believe the high temperature cut off on your cummins de-energizes the fuel solenoid killing the fuel supply to the engine.



I had a similar problem with my chipper, we thought it was overheating, but werent sure sinse the digital gauge has been broken sinse I bought it. Blowing out the radiator all the time was apparent not the problem all along - turns out the ECU is bad. I guess it was sending an emergency shut off signal as if you opened the disk cover while the thing was running. Funny thing about it that feature wasnt even wired in, as my chipper uses the trailer plug safety for that, the thing was just screwed up inside. 1200+ labor. 

Chipper is a 2004 bandit with a "tier 2" JD 125 turbo. 

And people wonder why this work costs so much. Week before last the bucket tranny blew. Been a thirsty few weeks. 

Funny how this biz works, if its not one thing its another. Got good help now, plus work finally....and the equipment decides to mount an assault. go figure.


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## CalTreeEquip

I concur with both Treeco and Aborquip and Plyscamp, all good advise.
That button has nothing to do with the Alt it only ties into the oil pressure and temp.
It could also be a bad connection anywhere within the the whole murphy switch system including the ignition switch and safety override.
If it's been running hot then thats the problem.
If your oil pressure has been low then that's the problem (change the oil with a higher wt oil).
If both of those check out then check the wiring connection but make sure you mark all the wires and draw a schematic so you don't get lost.
At that age it could be any of these.

As far as I can tell, not keep a radiator clean in the #1 reason for engine failure in this business.

WWW.CALIFORNIATREEEQUIPMENT.COM


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## ArborquipSP

tree MDS said:


> I had a similar problem with my chipper, we thought it was overheating, but werent sure sinse the digital gauge has been broken sinse I bought it. Blowing out the radiator all the time was apparent not the problem all along - turns out the ECU is bad. I guess it was sending an emergency shut off signal as if you opened the disk cover while the thing was running. Funny thing about it that feature wasnt even wired in, as my chipper uses the trailer plug safety for that, the thing was just screwed up inside. 1200+ labor.
> 
> Chipper is a 2004 bandit with a "tier 2" JD 125 turbo.
> 
> And people wonder why this work costs so much. Week before last the bucket tranny blew. Been a thirsty few weeks.
> 
> Funny how this biz works, if its not one thing its another. Got good help now, plus work finally....and the equipment decides to mount an assault. go figure.



Your JD dealer should have been able to disable that feature in the ECU was it under warranty still? Or did you have to pay to replace the ECU.

Scott


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## a_lopa

The auto feed also runs off the alternator,or maybe a faulty kill switch/stop button.


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## tree MDS

ArborquipSP said:


> Your JD dealer should have been able to disable that feature in the ECU was it under warranty still? Or did you have to pay to replace the ECU.
> 
> Scott



Had to replace the ECU and reprogram it, they did some other small stuff as well, $1547.00.

Grrrr.....


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## John464

tree MDS said:


> Had to replace the ECU and reprogram it, they did some other small stuff as well, $1547.00.
> 
> Grrrr.....



i had a brand new 250xp do the same thing. bad ecu. took three attempts for the dealer to fix it, all with under 20hrs on it. spent 34k and couldnt get the thing to run for longer than 15mins. was fixed under warranty, but the hassle and down time had me real pissed! almost had to file under lemon law. 

Ive had that machine for almost two years now and not a problem since. sometimes you get a defective part, Bandit still makes the best chippers out there!


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## lewis16

is she running better now?


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## arbor pro

seems to be. Did two things to it. 1) vented the exhaust a bit differently so hot exhaust wasn't getting sucked into the air cleaner and 2) cleaned the radiator really well. I don't think the radiator was as much to blame as the exhaust getting sucked into the air cleaner but we haven't had it shut down since doing both. Of course, we still haven't had a really good test


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## lewis16

nice one, let us know when you give her a real good thrashin... well a good use anyway!


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## arbor pro

spoke too soon. chipper died on me Tuesday night. Won't re-start. 

We had been running it for about 20 minutes then shut it down for another 20 minutes while we raked and gathered up some more debris. The chipper started at first but died after I let off the 'murphy switch' as it has been refered to in this thread. Wouldn't fire after that - cranked but that's it. Acts like it's not getting fuel. I'll have to have my mechanic take a closer look today...

Oh well. Good thing I've got the dump trailer as backup...


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## lewis16

i dont understand, you say its a bandit chipper, ive read good reports about them and the problems with yours ive never heard of?, did you buy it second hand?


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## arbor pro

TreeCo said:


> The Murphy controls power to the fuel cut off solenoid.
> 
> Your radiator may be plugged up internally.



I'm thinking it's related to that switch. So long as it's not overheated, why would a plugged radiator keep it from starting when it's been sitting for a day?


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## arbor pro

lewis16 said:


> i dont understand, you say its a bandit chipper, ive read good reports about them and the problems with yours ive never heard of?, did you buy it second hand?



Yeh, I bought it second hand. It's been a good chipper and I got a decent enough machine for what I paid for it but I think I'm going to go to a vermeer 1500 or 1800 in another year when I get the bandit paid off. I used to have an 1800 and it was a great machine for me.

Truthfully, I've never liked bandit chippers as well as vermeer and I've run both new and old bandits. It's just a chevy, ford, dodge thing and, while some guys think Bandit is the best chipper out there, I'm a vermeer guy at heart and will probably go back to vermeer again.


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## CalTreeEquip

*Murphy switch.*

The Murphy switch works like this:
Off position, the fuel control solenoid is closed, the oil pressure gauge is grounded because there is not oil pressure. This is why you have to hold the button down, to over ride that circuit. The temp gauge only comes into play when the engine gets to hot, then it grounds there by cutting power to the solenoid and shutting down the engine.

So check you oil pressure (you should have some pressure after cranking of a 20 seconds), check power to the fuel solenoid (you should be able to hear it open and close), check the Murphy switch itself ( maybe the fuse is burned or the switch itself in fried), and lastly check your the wiring for bad contacts and bad wires (if a wire runs to close to a hot surface, that can mess it up), charge up you battery (your going to need it fully charges).

Get on the Murphy website and down the PDF of your schematic, that will give you a better understanding of what,s going on.

Call me if me if you need more help.

WWW.CALIFORNIATREEEQUIPMENT.COM


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## ArborquipSP

I agree with caltreeequip check the fuse and electrical at the murphy switch and fuel cut off solenoid at the fuel injection pump.
Here is a link to the standard wiring for a murphy switch:

http://www.fwmurphy.com/pdf/00-02-0187.pdf

When the button on the murphy switch is pushed it bypasses the guages and puts power to the NC terminal (Witch is where your fuel stop solenoid get power to run from). If you dont get 12volts there your murphy switch is not working internally. If you do have 12 volts there have some one check the wire at the fuel solenoid there should be 12 volts there (Also check the ground at the solenoid). 
 
I have seen some bad fuse holders for the murphy switches (the fuse will look good but the connectors inside the holder suck and dont transfer the voltage so use a test light at the terminals).

Scott


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## fishercat

*i bet money on fuel filters.*

or the safety switch on top of the disc shroud as mentioned earlier.

also check the harness and grounds for the Murphy switch and ignition.

i'll stick to the first two though.


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## tlbsg

i have had intermittent shutdown problems on a mates chipper on the injection pump there is a solinoid which shuts off fuel when murphy system tells it to found a loose connection fixed worth a look


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## arbor pro

I'm picking it up from the mechanic today. He read this thread and checked everything out that was discussed and found that it was the fuel pump itself that was bad but the tips from you guys helped him to make sure he was diagnosing the right problem so thanks for all your input!

Now, who wants to buy a good used bandit 200+? My vermeer 1800 is being loaded onto the delivery truck today. I should get it by this weekend or tuesday at latest. If someone wants to deal on the bandit before I start placing ads, I'll give them a better deal on it...$8k instead of $8900. New tires, new alternator, new fuel pump, new set teeth in addition to newer set on it, good belts, tight bearings, good clutch, good paint. 80hp cummins.


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## arbor pro

*pics*

pics of the chipper...


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## lewis16

shes in good shape, dont know about the inside as i cant see it, but it looks very good for a 10 yo chipper cosmetically anyway


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