# adding wheels to a stock granberg alaska mill?



## Rosss (Mar 9, 2018)

Hi,
I was milling a willow tree and my mill kept getting hung up in ridges in the bark. I started stripping some layers of the bark and really worked over the worst lumpy spots which made a huge difference.

It also seemed like wheels would have helped climb over the lumpy bits. I have been considering adding wheels for a while and now seems like it is near the top of the pile of things to improve or do.

So where have people mounted wheels on a granberg? I searched before posting but couldn't find search terms that returned pictures or they predated the pictures getting messed up so I couldn't see them.
If any one can provide pictures of what people have done that would be great! I am visual so seeing stuff 

What size wheels have people used?
I am currently thinking 2 inch castor wheels as I have a 36 inch bar and have been using every inch of available space, so don't want to give up any more than I need to until I get a longer set up. 2 inch wheels should give me about 1/2 inch of wheel in front of the current guide.

I currently thinking to weld a a number of bolts onto the piece that pulls up to ho;ld the bar in place. I could do 2,3 or 4 wheels. I definitely want one wheel so it hopefully allows the mill ro roll over ridges or branch shoulders, rather than hooking on them. I want at least one wheel in the middle section for general forward movement. My mill tends to lead with the powerhead in front at maybe a 15 degree angle to the log.

Thoughts, suggestions, pictures, ideas appreciated  
Thanks


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## SeMoTony (Mar 9, 2018)

Rosss said:


> Hi,
> I was milling a willow tree and my mill kept getting hung up in ridges in the bark. I started stripping some layers of the bark and really worked over the worst lumpy spots which made a huge difference.
> 
> It also seemed like wheels would have helped climb over the lumpy bits. I have been considering adding wheels for a while and now seems like it is near the top of the pile of things to improve or do.
> ...


AS's on board milling engineer may show up from OZ down under to help you with pictures of his set up with wheels. Calling @BobL to help this young miller Rosss. Most of my milling bars have a hole drilled in the center of the sprocket and a tapped hole in the center of a post to gain about 1 7/8" of wider cut than clamping in the way the standard set up works. Highly recommend going through the CS milling 101 if you have not. On the third page , post# 53 BobL has a pic showing a wheel on one of His setups. Only 5 more pages I didn't check.
Stay safe and enjoy


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## BobL (Mar 9, 2018)

SMT, your wish has been granted.

When milling the top half of a log the best place for wheels to hold the inboard mill clamp away from the log is below the bar (see black wheels in picture A).
When milling the lower half of the log the best place is above the clamp as the white wheels in C .
When cutting the middle slabs in a log either or both wheels can be used




I've used two approaches the first one being two sets of wheels like this.
The black wheels are fixed HDPE wheels turned from plumbing fittings - they are also the inboard feet of the mill so the mill doesn't have to sit in the dirt when placed on teh ground
The white wheels are made of Teflon and ride on brass collars and are adjustable (Up-Down) to optimise the position of the wheel depending on the depth of the cut



On my small mill I use flippable wheel brackets.
The top part of the bar clamp is replaced with solid 3/4" square steel bar
This is the wheel position for milling the top half of the log - to mill the lower half I flip the wheels so they are positioned above the bar clamp



Here's the setup with the wheels flipped, they don't get in the way because I use log rails for just about every cut 



Here's a quick and dirty, limited solution.



Here is another one - replace the existing clamp with one that is wider (and has a solid lower section) so wheels can be placed in between the clamp.
The bar (grey colour) is then held in place with a couple of bolts threaded through the lower part of the clamp


I have more but that will do for now.


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## sonny580 (Mar 9, 2018)

Here is my solution for bark!---It's the only way to fly!--Keeps log clean and cutters stay sharp much longer,--easy to push mill along the smooth log once bark is gone! thanks; sonny580


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## Brian72 (Mar 10, 2018)

sonny580 said:


> Here is my solution for bark!---It's the only way to fly!--Keeps log clean and cutters stay sharp much longer,--easy to push mill along the smooth log once bark is gone! thanks; sonny580View attachment 638361


My next investment!

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk


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## sonny580 (Mar 10, 2018)

Now this one here of mine, is also a timber tuff, (same as the bandmill), but they are most all alike. Once I used mine, I just about won't cut anything without de-barking it first. Takes more time and work, BUT saws stay sharper by not having to knaw thru dirt in the bark.--One other thing, ( this gonna git me in trouble! lol!!)---YA gotta mount it on a ms250!!! LOL!!!!---This unit kicks my a$$ after a couple hours!--If you have a good spine, it won't be any problem!---One other thing,--It's not a bad idea to wear thick pants because the right leg really gets pelted with big chips!!
This unit also uses standard power planer blades, so if you ever were to damage a blade, there common stock. thanks; sonny580


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## BobL (Mar 10, 2018)

I mill some pretty smooth barked trees and find the wheels still make a difference.
If the wheels make no difference then probably the rakers have not been dropped far enough to optimise cutting speed.
The tradeoff with low rakers is the saw then really grabs the log and pulls the mill up hard against the log which the wheels counteract.


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## Rosss (Mar 11, 2018)

Thanks Bob, Tony,Sonny 
Will think more.

How does the debarker affect the wood of the log itself? I am mostly cutting live edge slabs where people want the actual edge of the log once the bark has been peeled.

On thick barked trees could I take off some of the bark with it, to get a good smoother surface and less bark to cut through?


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## Brian72 (Mar 13, 2018)

sonny580 said:


> Now this one here of mine, is also a timber tuff, (same as the bandmill), but they are most all alike. Once I used mine, I just about won't cut anything without de-barking it first. Takes more time and work, BUT saws stay sharper by not having to knaw thru dirt in the bark.--One other thing, ( this gonna git me in trouble! lol!!)---YA gotta mount it on a ms250!!! LOL!!!!---This unit kicks my a$$ after a couple hours!--If you have a good spine, it won't be any problem!---One other thing,--It's not a bad idea to wear thick pants because the right leg really gets pelted with big chips!!
> This unit also uses standard power planer blades, so if you ever were to damage a blade, there common stock. thanks; sonny580


Thanks for the info. Are you saying I need this AND a new saw?? Lol. 

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk


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## Husky Man (Mar 24, 2018)

*11” ROLLER BRACKET – G988*
$45.00

I was just looking at the Granberg website, and I found this, I hadn't seen this before, so I don't know when it became available.

I thought I would share this, in case someone was interested.

Doug


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## brianpoundingnails (May 15, 2018)

I had started cutting with a"grandberg" type mill I had built myself.(46" capacity, 60" bar, Stihl 084 saw). It weighed about 175lbs. It would wear a man smooth
out. I had seen several slick guide board arrangements but it's still pretty physical moving the saw from cut to cut. I decided to build something more like a bandsaw
mill. It makes it a lot easier and eliminated pesky problems like that. It also functions as a lathe, mortise machine and drill press. Go to dropbox link for more pics and info.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nr4yw91iv2hgdl0/AACv5-Unq_KSGyYK-2YHwWIBa?dl=0


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## Rosss (May 16, 2018)

brianpoundingnails said:


> I had started cutting with a"grandberg" type mill I had built myself.(46" capacity, 60" bar, Stihl 084 saw). It weighed about 175lbs. It would wear a man smooth
> out. I had seen several slick guide board arrangements but it's still pretty physical moving the saw from cut to cut. I decided to build something more like a bandsaw
> mill. It makes it a lot easier and eliminated pesky problems like that. It also functions as a lathe, mortise machine and drill press. Go to dropbox link for more pics and info.
> 
> ...



I had a short look. Impressive!!


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## BobL (May 16, 2018)

These will only work properly cutting the top half of the log, cutting the lower half really requires the wheels to be above the bar like this.
Black wheels are for teh top half, adjustable height position white wheels are for the bottom half.




on my small mill I flip the wheels between above and below the bar.
For bottom half of log - Iy doesn ;oil ike theres enough room to mill narrow boards but don't forget I use log rails on all cuts.
Note how wheels are adjustable in position parallel to teh bar.



For top half


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## M.R. (May 18, 2018)

Picked up a few sets of these out of a truck load headed to the landfill from
a nursing home. 5” diameters, low miles, dollar or less a pair.
Some were smaller diameter.
These someday projects to one day get around to.... oh! Lord.
Seen in a medical store $35.95 for the replacements pictured on left.
Question for you Bob L 
Bark wise for your timber types etc.. what’s the best sized diameters you’ve used / built????


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## BobL (May 18, 2018)

Yeah bark can should be better than a wheel for some of your conifers with the deep fissures. I have a photo of a mill that uses a single vertical roller that leads the bar that I tried to find but cannot seem to locate it.

I'd be wary of most soft plastic and rubber coated wheels. The bar oil eventually turns them to mush whereby they crumble. that has happened to those skateboard wheels I pictured above on my small red mill. Hard plastic or even metal would be better. those on the bigger mill are HDPE (black) and Teflon (white)


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## rancher2 (May 20, 2018)

brianpoundingnails said:


> I had started cutting with a"grandberg" type mill I had built myself.(46" capacity, 60" bar, Stihl 084 saw). It weighed about 175lbs. It would wear a man smooth
> out. I had seen several slick guide board arrangements but it's still pretty physical moving the saw from cut to cut. I decided to build something more like a bandsaw
> mill. It makes it a lot easier and eliminated pesky problems like that. It also functions as a lathe, mortise machine and drill press. Go to dropbox link for more pics and info.
> 
> ...


 That is one nice set up you made.


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## Ancient One (Feb 28, 2019)

BobL said:


> SMT, your wish has been granted.
> 
> When milling the top half of a log the best place for wheels to hold the inboard mill clamp away from the log is below the bar (see black wheels in picture A).
> When milling the lower half of the log the best place is above the clamp as the white wheels in C .
> ...




Bringing this thread back to life as I just bought a Alaskan and now am designing a roller setup.

So BobL, very good work and thanks for posting the photos. One thing I did not think of was the above blade and below blade positions for the rollers. I like you means of flipping therollers.

And I really like your concept of the roller on the centerline of the blade! Maybe the best solution. I will ponder this design for a few days before cutting metal.

And, happiness is well filled junk boxes. I was rooting around the shop today and found half a dozen skateboard wheels. Hmm. Ball bearings. Might be a winner. In the same box was a dozen or so black nylon rollers about 1-1/2" diameter and 3/4" thick. Something else to ponder.

The question of the hour is where did you obtain the cable type remote throttle assembly? Looks like a motorcycle throttle.

Thanks a million!

John in Port Angeles, WA.


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## BobL (Mar 1, 2019)

The skateboard wheels (I think they are a type of PVC) on my small alaskan did not like the B&C oil and eventually disintegrated and were replaced. OTOH the teflon and High Density Poly ethylene wheels on the big BIL mill are still going strong 12 years on.



Ancient One said:


> The question of the hour is where did you obtain the cable type remote throttle assembly? Looks like a motorcycle throttle.



It is, I bought it at a MC wreckers. 
Notice its is mounted in a left hand orientation - this was done deliberately. 
With a right hand MC throttle the throttle is operated with the top of the right hand towards towards the rider. This slightly moves the arm/hand away from the handle bars. With a CSM you don't want to be moving away but towards the mill so you can lean on the hand to apply forward pressure to the mill which is what happens with the MC throttle in the left hand orientation - When I finally installed it I cold not believe how well.natural the movement was. The throttle also has a throttle lock so I don't spend a lot of time hanging onto it, usually just starting and finishing the log. With the logs on a slope I usually keep cutting by leaning on the wrap handle with my knee/thigh which keeps my arms free to use other mill handles, adjust the oiler, or insert wedges all while the mill keeps cutting.


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## Ancient One (Mar 1, 2019)

Many thanks for your reply. A good setup.

I am thinking the skate board wheels fall apart as they are made of urethane. I have had dead blow hammers ( the brown ones made using urethane) break up in the shop due to the proximity of cutting oils and solvents used. First one was the dead blow hammer I used on the vertical mill to tap items into the vise when setting up, it usually had coolant or cutting oil on it.

I will likely use the nylon rollers from the junk box, they are the black nylon impregnated with moly, so self lubricating on the shaft. Lube oil will not affect them.

I am impressed with the way information is shared all the way from Australia up to where I live in the States, way out on the Olympic Peninsula of Washington State in the Pacific North West. Big logging country for sure!

Off to the Stihl shop today to buy a pair of chainsaw chaps, I do not like the idea of my legs so close to a 5-1/5 foot bar with razors flying around without protection!

I bought a Stihl Pro Mark Forestry Helmet two days ago, I was surprised, much less cost than on the web and Amazon! Our Stihl Shop takes care of the loggers up here, no high prices. The shop is like a candy store to a kid and it is only 2 miles from me, I go buy it every time I have to go into town. Darn truck has automatic steering and wants to pull into the shop each time I pass.


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## csmillingnoob (Mar 1, 2019)

Since maximizing width of cut is a concern to you, here's something small, cheap and easy to get from lowes that might work. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Prime-Line-1-5-in-Steel-Sliding-Patio-Door-Roller-and-Axle-Kit/3083263






Looks like you can just get some longer bolts. These are only 1.5 inches, so only about 1/4 inch protrudes beyond the edge of your mill if you center the hole for the axle in the base of your mill. This would maximize your cutting width, BUT you may want larger because 1/4 inc can get swallowed in the bark. It certainly would with the pecan bark I'm cutting


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## Ancient One (Mar 1, 2019)

csmillingnoob said:


> Since maximizing width of cut is a concern to you, here's something small, cheap and easy to get from lowes that might work. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Prime-Line-1-5-in-Steel-Sliding-Patio-Door-Roller-and-Axle-Kit/3083263
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not sturdy enough for me. I will take a pic later today and post of the rollers I have.

I have a machine shop in the back yard, so fabricating a nice aluminum bracket to fit the power end of the mill to attach the rollers will be a piece of cake for me.


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## csmillingnoob (Mar 1, 2019)

Uh, yeah. That's a backyard shop alright.


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## Ancient One (Mar 1, 2019)

csmillingnoob said:


> Uh, yeah. That's a backyard shop alright.



About a third of the shop. Dirty old retired guys need a place to play!

Albany Georgia. I was born in Brunswick, drafted in 1967, graduated from Auburn in 1972. Moved to the Pacific NW after discharge, fell in love with the rain forest and big timber when I was stationed at Tacoma, WA.


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## Ancient One (Mar 1, 2019)

Rollers from the stash. Moly impregnated nylon, complete with grade 8 shoulder bolts. Maybe I will put them on in tandem, so I will have rollers for above and below the bar without having to switch.






Lonely Stihls just waiting for the mods to the Alaskan Mill to be complete and the snow to go away!


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## Husky Man (Mar 1, 2019)

csmillingnoob said:


> Uh, yeah. That's a backyard shop alright.



Not the TYPICAL Backyard Shop for sure, but I have known guys that would or have had that or near to it. 

It's just a matter of what your Interests and priorities (And BUDGET) are.



Doug


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## Ancient One (Mar 1, 2019)

Husky Man said:


> Not the TYPICAL Backyard Shop for sure, but I have known guys that would or have had that or near to it.
> 
> It's just a matter of what your Interests and priorities (And BUDGET) are.
> 
> ...




Some guys spend money on tobacco, alcohol and women. Women were too expensive for me (divorced in 1994). Never smoked, quit all alcohol in my 20's.

You are looking at a 50 year collection. May post more shop photos later. 

Never start collecting machinery until you are living in your last homestead!!! The iron is very heavy and extremely difficult to move!


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## Husky Man (Mar 1, 2019)

I Believe you on not getting at least the Major machine tools until you are in your Forever home

If you were a machinist by trade, I can easily see a shop like that, even in retirement many can't get it out of their system, and if you know where to look, while not "Cheap" good condition older NON-CNC machine tools can be found for reasonable prices. Again, Priorities and budget and space have a lot to do with it.


Doug 

ps I Truly Envy those with the skills to utilize those tools to their fullest potential


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## Husky Man (Mar 1, 2019)

Ancient One, were you at McChord, or Fort Lewis?, Both are Now JBLM.


Doug


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## BobL (Mar 1, 2019)

Ancient One said:


> I am impressed with the way information is shared all the way from Australia up to where I live in the States, way out on the Olympic Peninsula of Washington State in the Pacific North West. Big logging country for sure!


That's how I got started back in 2005 I drifted on/off to AS as a lurker and eventually joined in 2007 - learned quickly from all the great advice and took it from there.



> Off to the Stihl shop today to buy a pair of chainsaw chaps, I do not like the idea of my legs so close to a 5-1/5 foot bar with razors flying around without protection!


My risk assessment of a chain injury while actually milling is that it is much safer than regular CS use. The chain has come off or broken on my step a number of times and it just flops down inside the kerf. The most likely time a CS related injury will occur is when prepping logs or the odd emergency trim off the side of a log while milling because the bar is not long enough to get around that point. I know I'm not going to stop and put on chaps for such a small cut so I just wear them all the time. The one time I had a chain come off and hit me in the privates was when I was doing a small trimming job for Mom. I had finished and put the saw away and we were having a coffee when she spied a 5ft high 4" diameter stump (that I had just cut to her specific instructions) and she wanted it completely removed. So I went to the van and got the 441 out and fired it up - chain was way too loose and got me in the, as we say here, "goolies" - no blood - just PAIN, and a bright purple/red bruise thacame up later 



> I bought a Stihl Pro Mark Forestry Helmet two days ago, I was surprised, much less cost than on the web and Amazon! Our Stihl Shop takes care of the loggers up here, no high prices. The shop is like a candy store to a kid and it is only 2 miles from me, I go buy it every time I have to go into town. Darn truck has automatic steering and wants to pull into the shop each time I pass.



Ha - I always wear full face protection. On the very first log I milled with the 076 and teh BIL Mill, the 3/4" BSP brass cap I was using as the lid on my Aux Oiler tank vibrated off and landed on the chain at WOT and it flung the thing right between my eyes. it felt like I had been hit by a small baseball bat. Luckily I was wearing a full face polycarbonate shield - still got a bruise though.


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## Ancient One (Mar 1, 2019)

I have always worn muffs and safety glasses while running the saw, but the muffs were always uncomfortable and the plastic safety glasses were not the best for good vision. So with the mill I decided to buy better muffs as you are close to a loud engine for a long period.

Anyway, after a week of cruising the internet I did not find any muffs that I liked. Almost bought the Husky Forrester Helmet but did not like the reviews. Walked in the Stihl shop 2 days ago, saw the Stihl Pro Mark, tried it on, and was sold. Read comfy and the screen is not visible when looking a few feet away. A plus is it has the knob ratchet adjust.

I want the chaps as I have had a couple of near misses over the years. With big heavy saws and long bars. My older Stihl has a 50 inch bar, years ago big old growth Fir butts were available out in the logging country west of me, left on the landings and were fair game for the firewood guys like me. Both near misses were when I was pulling the bar out of a cut and still had enough RPM for chain movement and grazed my pants leg. Luckily no blood but could have been worse. Ripped up nice Carhartts. I learned to take my finger off the throttle!!!


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## Ancient One (Mar 3, 2019)

Husky Man said:


> Ancient One, were you at McChord, or Fort Lewis?, Both are Now JBLM.
> 
> 
> Doug




McChord. 1976. F 106 maintenance Officer. Discharged there, I had enough of the AF Politics!!!!! Before that a few tours in Europe, SE Asia, 4 years at Travis in California. I loved Travis in the early 1970's, right in the center of great Striped Bass fishing. I was in the C-5 program, had a lot of fun getting those big pigs off the ground! A maintenance nightmare.

Now live in Port Angeles. Yea, I hate JBLM, biggest traffic jams on I 5 in that area. Go through there about 5 times a year, glad I am not living in that area now facing a daily commute!!!


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## Husky Man (Mar 3, 2019)

Ancient One said:


> McChord. 1976. F 106 maintenance Officer. Discharged there, I had enough of the AF Politics!!!!! Before that a few tours in Europe, SE Asia, 4 years at Travis in California. I loved Travis in the early 1970's, right in the center of great Striped Bass fishing. I was in the C-5 program, had a lot of fun getting those big pigs off the ground! A maintenance nightmare.
> 
> Now live in Port Angeles. Yea, I hate JBLM, biggest traffic jams on I 5 in that area. Go through there about 5 times a year, glad I am not living in that area now facing a daily commute!!!




First, Thank You for your Service

I Know what you mean about the JBLM I-5 Traffic, I'm a Truck Driver, Stihl go that way frequently. My first Driving job (Tractor Trailer) was for a Food service company 1988-2002, on my Tacoma route, I had the Burger King Restaurants on both Lewis and McChord, and Fairchild on my Spokane run, I was 20 minutes from Fairchild, when the second plane hit the WTC on 9/11, I doubt that I need to tellyou about the FUN times following that. Fortunately, I wasn't on base yet, and they had a small order that I could work around, all 3 got real serious at the gates for quite awhile, didn't need to ask if those M16's were loaded, you could see that the TOW missle launchers on the Hummers were too, and I sure didn't argue with them about putting a Dog in my Reefer full of food.


Doug


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## Ancient One (Mar 4, 2019)

It was a lot easier in the 1970's. No threats, maybe two guards at the gate, no dogs or searches. A base sticker on the windshield and you were waved in.

Times were safer back then.


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## Husky Man (Mar 4, 2019)

Ancient One said:


> It was a lot easier in the 1970's. No threats, maybe two guards at the gate, no dogs or searches. A base sticker on the windshield and you were waved in.
> 
> Times were safer back then.




Yep, I was born in '65, I remember being a kid/teen in the 70's , it was a Great time to grow up, I wouldn't trade Childhoods with Today's Kids on Dare.

No Lap tops or Cell phones and the Atari 2600 was a "High Tech" video game, but the FREEDOM I/We had back then compared to Now My Friends and I did things that modern Parents would lose their minds over.

Unless He was Pushed in, or the really rare "Panty Raid", a Guy in the Girl's Restroom/Locker room didn't Happen much, NOW? The schools let any Dude that "Identifies" as a Female in

It wasn't just a Different Time, it was a Different WORLD, I really miss it some times


Doug


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## BobL (Mar 5, 2019)

Ancient One said:


> I have always worn muffs and safety glasses while running the saw, but the muffs were always uncomfortable and the plastic safety glasses were not the best for good vision. So with the mill I decided to buy better muffs as you are close to a loud engine for a long period.
> 
> Anyway, after a week of cruising the internet I did not find any muffs that I liked.



When I was around 40 my wife suggested I get my ears tested and it turned out I had hearing loss across the range and significant hearing damage from in a specific frequency range from what the audiologist called "exposure to too much 70's rock music". On average my hearing was more damaged than my peers. After that I investigated muffs and found that Peltor Muffs had one of the best noise reduction profiles so I bought pair and used them mainly in my shop and always seemed to have them on. I was also doing a lot of air travel back then so I bough a pair of Bose noise cancelling muffs for this - I ended up with several pairs of these muffs. I even used the Peltors on short flights as they are VERY effective at sound reduction on aircraft - the only problem is they use a very high sideways pressure to get that attenuation so they do become uncomfortable on flights longer than a few hours (that's nearly ALL flights out of Perth)

Once I found myself in SF international in a very crowded departure lounge - it was HOT and the AC was not coping and there was nowhere to sit. When a very loud alarm went off it was so loud every left the lounge so I put the muffs on and plonked myself on the best seat. When security eventually (20 minutes) turned up they looked at me with bewildered looks on their faces - it turns out someone had forced a secure door open. One of the security guards looked at me suspiciously and I was asked a few questions - like, "Are you deaf. how can your sit there with that racket going on?" 

When I started milling about 13 years ago I was copious that I was going to need to wear the muffs for long periods so tried out the Bose noise cancelling muffs but the Peltors were better so I bought another pair and now I have 4 pairs of Peltors and these days I always find myself with Muffs on. When I had my hearing tested again recently it turned out my hearing was close to average for my peers. Your hearing cannot improve as you get older BUT you can slow the hearing loss down and this is what has happened - everyone else has continued to degrade faster than mine had even though I was using muffler modded chainsaws.

At the local "Men's shop" (a community shop used mainly by retired men) that I attend for a few years after I retired I was surprised to see how many members did not use muffs when using machinery. It turned out many of these members were already so deaf they did not think they had to wear muffs. They could not understand that the deafer they are, all the more reason to wear muffs to protect what little hearing they had left.


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