# What a piece of crap



## aarolar (Dec 1, 2012)

I bought a brand new little boys axe at tractor supply today to keep in the toolbox of the truck and for splitting up kindling. Got home and sharpened it up as it was dull as a butter knife took it out back and on the second swing the head broke off. :msp_sneaky: So I came inside and was going to sit down and write truper an email and came to find out they don't even have a english website. :msp_thumbdn: Guess I will just have to take it back to tractor supply and exchange it. 

Before everybody starts recommending a fiskars x25 or 27 I am not a fan of plastic, I don't own a plastic handgun,shotgun or rifle and I would rather have a hickory or ash handle on my axe...


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## flashhole (Dec 1, 2012)

Let us know if they take it back w/o a problem. I bought a handle for my maul at TS not too long ago. So far so good. I sorted through about 8 of them to find the one I finally purchased. I think Truper brand is made somewhere in South America.


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## Ductape (Dec 1, 2012)

Bummer........

But before you pre-judge the plastic handled Fiskars hatchet....... take another look at the Hickory (or whatever it is made of) handles Truper hatchet again. At least the Fiskars is quaranteed for life....


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## stihlavarna (Dec 1, 2012)

I was skeptical at first, and I have loosed the head off a fibreglass so I had my doubts. Exchange it for a Fiskars and be done with it, I've no issues with my super splitter (pre X25) for 3 years.


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## aarolar (Dec 1, 2012)

Ductape said:


> Bummer........
> 
> But before you pre-judge the plastic handled Fiskars hatchet....... take another look at the Hickory (or whatever it is made of) handles Truper hatchet again. At least the Fiskars is quaranteed for life....



Im not saying that the fiskars isn't a good product I just personally like the feel of wood in my hands over plastic any day of the week.


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## FLHX Storm (Dec 1, 2012)

Okay, I won't tell you to get the Fiskars X25 or X27. For something to carry in a tool box for taking care of kindling try the Fiskars X7. Yeah, I know, it has a plastic type handle and everything you don't like about them. But, I have had the wood handle on pretty much everything and have broken them after a short workout. A few years back I broke one that had a fiberglass handle. I couldn't tell you the brand, but the handle was yellow. Then I tried a different kind. I think it is still fiberglass but made a bit stronger hand has done a lot of splitting for me. It was a True Temper 4# splitter. But I wanted something better so after reading the reviews on Amazon I figured why not. So I picked up the X27 due to the longer handle than the X25. This thing works like a dream. I have abused it a lot since I've had it and challenged it. I can only say I couldn't be happier with my choice. I personally will never go back to a wood handle. 

If you haven't gathered by now, I am extremely rough on the equipment. If it can break, I will be the one to break it. 

I recently ordered the X7 (14 inch handle) and I'll say this, be sure to keep your fingers out of the way or they will be gone. It's lightweight and makes my other hatchet seem like a sledge hammer. 

So before you knock it, give it a try. You never can tell, you might even grow to like it. 

The picture below is with the Fiskars X27. I dare you to do the same thing with a wood handled axe! That log was about 23 inches across, by 4 feet in height. It was also oak! AND, I'm a 61 year old grandmother of 5! Just something to consider.

View attachment 264993


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## MNGuns (Dec 1, 2012)

Don't think of it as plastic, more like a high tech polymer pseudo wood. :cool2:


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## Dalmatian90 (Dec 1, 2012)

aarolar said:


> Im not saying that the fiskars isn't a good product I just personally like the feel of wood in my hands over plastic any day of the week.



For goodness sake, how much kindling are you splitting each week that the feel of wood is important? 

I can get it if you're swinging a hammer all day, or you're using a heavy tool like a full size ax or a maul doing heavy work. This is...making kindling. 

You just need a utility tool -- get an X7 hatchet to split kindling and be done with it.


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## aarolar (Dec 1, 2012)

Dalmatian90 said:


> For goodness sake, how much kindling are you splitting each week that the feel of wood is important?
> 
> I can get it if you're swinging a hammer all day, or you're using a heavy tool like a full size ax or a maul doing heavy work. This is...making kindling.
> 
> You just need a utility tool -- get an X7 hatchet to split kindling and be done with it.



Does it really bother you that bad that I don't care to get one of those new fangled fiskars axes? Geesh yall fiskars guys keep trying to cram them down everybodys throat... :rolleyes2:


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## Fred Wright (Dec 1, 2012)

Possibly, you got a lemon handle. Take it back to TS and see if they'll make it good. If not, get a replacement handle.

I bought a Truper 8# maul at TS last year, it has a plastic sleeve extending down the handle 4" from the head. While I don't use it very often, I've whupped it like a rented mule on occasion with no problems.


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## bassflyrodder (Dec 1, 2012)

I went through 3 maul handles and said enough. I like how the handle says American Hickory then if you look at the small print on the other side says made in Mexico. I am not sure how it is cost effective to cut a tree and send it to Mexico to have it made into a handle then ship it back unless you cut some serious corners.


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## MotorSeven (Dec 1, 2012)

aarolar, I hate to be the one to point this out...but the forensic evidence is stacked in favor of the MFG. There are (4) distinct strike damage(dents) in the handle way below where the head was attached.....your aim sucks. Sorry, but you are the guy that non-breakable "plastic" handles were specifically made for

I can cast this stone because I own several "plastic" handled tools for the very same reason

COLD HARD EVIDENCE:






Next time get a blind guy to spot you before each swing:yoyo:

.....I rest my case


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## CTYank (Dec 1, 2012)

bassflyrodder said:


> I went through 3 maul handles and said enough. I like how the handle says American Hickory then if you look at the small print on the other side says made in Mexico. I am not sure how it is cost effective to cut a tree and send it to Mexico to have it made into a handle then ship it back unless you cut some serious corners.



And ... on the other hand, I've a 3 kg maul made by Mueller (Austria), a thing of ferocious beauty. Has an American hickory handle (another thing of beauty.)

Hickory logs went to Austria, then product shipped here, there, and everywhere. No noticeable corners cut, but then it hardly qualifies as a cheapie. Keep all the cheapie tools!

I, too, much prefer hickory tool handles to plastic/glass/whatever else, thank you very much


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## aarolar (Dec 1, 2012)

MotorSeven said:


> aarolar, I hate to be the one to point this out...but the forensic evidence is stacked in favor of the MFG. There are (4) distinct strike damage(dents) in the handle way below where the head was attached.....your aim sucks. Sorry, but you are the guy that non-breakable "plastic" handles were specifically made for
> 
> I can cast this stone because I own several "plastic" handled tools for the very same reason
> 
> ...



That is where I used what was left of the handle to beat the head out of the piece of wood it was buried halfway into. You should really not be so quick to assume such because you just made an ass of yourself... 

We have burned wood for 15 years now and I just got a hydraulic splitter this year I have split MANY a cord of wood with a wood handle axe and maul and I will admit I do miss but not very often. I can put the axe in the same hole pretty much every swing of the head...


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## splitpost (Dec 1, 2012)

just a badly made it happens,i got three hatchets purely for kindling the 1st one with a wood handle did the same so i bought 2more but with fibreglass handles,didn't take long for them to break either ,having a good look its no wonder the handle only goes into the head by about 3/4 of an inch,the rest is epoxied in,
now thats to be expected after all they are cheap china junk,my fix is to weld some 1 inch pipe in for a handle ,for kindling it works a treat


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## allstihl (Dec 1, 2012)

still using my 40yr old boy scout hatchet


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## artbaldoni (Dec 1, 2012)

allstihl said:


> still using my 40yr old boy scout hatchet



Me too! Mine is only 37 years old...


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## Ductape (Dec 1, 2012)

aarolar said:


> Im not saying that the fiskars isn't a good product I just personally like the feel of wood in my hands over plastic any day of the week.




FWIW, I'm with ya........ at least in theory. In reality though, the plastic handled Fiskars axes / hatchets work well, really well. Sometimes I have to go with a 'buy it once and never worry about it again' philosophy, even if it means buying something with a plastic handle.


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## Freakingstang (Dec 1, 2012)

*yeah, fiskars sucks, sucks so bad I bought one of each...*






The head design, and coating make this worthwhile, not to mention that industructable handle...


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## BrokenToys (Dec 1, 2012)

I made my little axe originally for my son to use for chopping little maple logs for kindling; but I have to say for an old roofing hatchet and post hole digger handle...it works pretty well !
View attachment 265071


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## Itsme7 (Dec 1, 2012)

If you want a quality axe, Estwing makes some nice ones, made in America, all steel construction. 

Estwing Axes and Outdoor Tools


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## stihlavarna (Dec 1, 2012)

I wrapped mine up in tape cause I did find the plastic a bit slippery.


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## stihly dan (Dec 1, 2012)

aarolar said:


> That is where I used what was left of the handle to beat the head out of the piece of wood it was buried halfway into. You should really not be so quick to assume such because you just made an ass of yourself...
> 
> We have burned wood for 15 years now and I just got a hydraulic splitter this year I have split MANY a cord of wood with a wood handle axe and maul and I will admit I do miss but not very often. I can put the axe in the same hole pretty much every swing of the head...



iN HIS DEFENSE, IT DID LOOK BAD. sorry about all caps, mistake but did not want to redo.


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## aarolar (Dec 1, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> iN HIS DEFENSE, IT DID LOOK BAD. sorry about all caps, mistake but did not want to redo.



I started to say something in my initial post but figured with this being a firewood forum everybody would have enough sense to realize I wouldn't have beat the handle of the axe against a round of wood till the head broke off and then started yelling manufacturer defect. Guess I was wrong...


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## rmount (Dec 1, 2012)

Itsme7 said:


> If you want a quality axe, Estwing makes some nice ones, made in America, all steel construction.
> 
> Estwing Axes and Outdoor Tools




I like the look of the "Fireside Friend® Splitting Tool", does anyone have experience with it?


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## zogger (Dec 1, 2012)

aarolar said:


> Does it really bother you that bad that I don't care to get one of those new fangled fiskars axes? Geesh yall fiskars guys keep trying to cram them down everybodys throat... :rolleyes2:



got to be lebenty dozen wood handled cutting tools out there. Might want to skip tractor supply quality level and shop online then.

with that said, and not wooden handle but steel and rubber, check out some estwing stuff, they used to make a good hatchet, haven't looked for a long time now. 

I like wood handles because in a pinch I can repair my own, and that's it. Feel is subjective, any of them feel OK to me. As long as we have technology available and affordable, I want something that works *well* and doesn't break. I have yet to see unbreakable liftime wooden handled anything.

Old engineering maxim, good fast cheap, pick two. Obviously you just got a factory defect, they might replace it free of charge if you bring it back in a timely manner. Hope they do. Really! I know all you wanted was an inexpensive servicable hatchet..seems perfectly reasonable to me. with a wooden handle, like ten zillion hatchets in the past had. No problem there.

In defense of modern tech..some of it anyway...

Striking tools, good, durable, cheap, pick two. I doubt you are going to get a "good" like ten buck wooden handled hatchet axe, brand new. Not today, gonna be dull, made of crap steel and like letover reworked broom handles... I doubt even for 20. Above that, might be possible. I don't know, several links and references to those more high end axes and mauls lately now, perhaps one of those kind might work for you. council wetterlings oxhead and husky and stihl branded and some more no doubt. If I knew of one, that I had used, personal experience, I would recommend it, but don't know of one that I could, sorry.

I have both sorts of tools, synthetic (various) handled and wooden. Wooden handles are long term emergency backup now. 

Notice I didn't say the F word, but the F word striking tool I have is the *closest* anything I have ever seen or owned (since I started using some real tools in 1955) to hitting all three of the engineering criteria, instead of just two. The F company hit a bases loaded home run, outta the park, across the street, bounced of a hotdog cart, beaned a politician, ricoheted off a bankster, and landed in the poorest most deserving kid in the citys hands....just sayin... and yep, if it breaks and it is the zombie apocalypse and I can't get the free replacement, well, still have a sharp something to use...I'll switch to my backups then. In fact that reminds me I have one old maul head needs a new handle, might as well get to it.

ha, this is funny, reminded me of an "old school" endeavor i did sorta recently. For several years I had the big remnants of a whopper big oak I managed to beaver down awkwardly with a little saw and much cussing and home made wedge action and so on. Very little skill involved, just determination....Left the fat part of the big trunk. It sat around...waiting for "more saw"....which it eventually encountered.

The creek here has a lot of chert in it, so being sort of a caveman/ pleistocene type sometimes (I am a 50/50 modern nerd/caveman blend, my nick is a variant of my real world nick which comes from a gary larson cartoon caveman...), I fished around and found a suitable sharp hand axe shaped chunk of rock and went to debarking it now and then. Got a whole lot of it done over a two summers "every once in awhile for ten or fifteen minutes or so" manner. 

Whoever invented the "handle" needs some serious attaboys! Big ups! \0/

Using just your arm gets to be a lot like work!


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## zogger (Dec 1, 2012)

rmount said:


> I like the look of the "Fireside Friend® Splitting Tool", does anyone have experience with it?



Never have but it certainly looks cool!


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## flyboy553 (Dec 1, 2012)

I am right with ya aarolar. I get so sick of hearing how great the Fiskars is, that now, you couldn't even give me one, let alone sell it to me! Unless of course, my child is sick, my dog needs healing, I have some water that needs walking on, and someone I know needs to be raised from the dead! Then you might could give me one! From what I understand, them there fiskars can do all of that before breakfast!

On the other hand, if I ever run in to a chunk of wood my hydraulic splitter can't make it through, I might let someone at it with a Fiskars so it can be put in the stacks! That has not happened yet.

Ted


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## EXCALIBER (Dec 1, 2012)

Well not sure how to respond to this thread. You care that much about a wood handle, just keep buying them. Problem solved. Perhaps you can buy them in bulk and get a discount, or by the dozen? Then you might be able to make it through a day. 

Second thought, why not use your splitter for making kindling? Way faster and safer then useing a hatchet. Make up a bunch then you don't need to do it all the time. 

Third thought, buy a fiskars and cover that hidious indestructable carbon fiber, resisn, fiberglass handle with several of your broken useless wood handled hatchets. Just hollow them out to fit the handle of the fiskars, wrap with duct tape and use. Problem solved.

Fourth thought. So against fiskars and want a wood handle, stop being a cheap skate and buy a quality tool, perhaps a Snow and Nealley. Shouldn't cost you much more than about 5 fiskars, but hey its got a wood handle. Perhaps there is a thread on here on why a craftsman saw is not on par with a 372 Husky...hmm, dam cheap craftsman saws anyway. After all my cavalier runs like a corvette right. 

Now consider Fiskars has been in buisness longer then most any company I can think of, they have been making quality things since 1649. My guess is you do not stay in buisness that long making second rate products.


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## iowa (Dec 1, 2012)

aarolar said:


> That is where I used what was left of the handle to beat the head out of the piece of wood it was buried halfway into. You should really not be so quick to assume such because you just made an ass of yourself...
> 
> We have burned wood for 15 years now and I just got a hydraulic splitter this year I have split MANY a cord of wood with a wood handle axe and maul and I will admit I do miss but not very often. I can put the axe in the same hole pretty much every swing of the head...


I hope there isn't any plastic parts on that splitter of yours! Like the engine or handles, or fenders, etc. 
What's the deal with plastic? I guess maybe what you should look at is was it made in the USA! But I might be a little partial to plastics since I work in the plastics industry.


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## srb08 (Dec 1, 2012)

Holy crap guys, the only thing he said was, he didn't want a plastic handled hatchet. He didn't insult your mother or try to molest your daughter.
I own three Fiskars tools, two cutting axes and an x27. I love them but if someone else hates them, that's fine with me, I don't really care. The only reason I own them is because there is not a traditional, wood handled, tool that can match the performance
I have friends who shoot plastic guns. Fine weapons, some of the best, I just don't like them. They know I don't care for them but don't tell me I'm an idiot because of it.
So........wadda think, give a guy a break?


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## stihly dan (Dec 1, 2012)

nope


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 2, 2012)

srb08 said:


> Holy crap guys, the only thing he said was, he didn't want a plastic handled hatchet. He didn't insult your mother or try to molest your daughter.
> I own three Fiskars tools, two cutting axes and an x27. I love them but if someone else hates them, that's fine with me, I don't really care. The only reason I own them is because there is not a traditional, wood handled, tool that can match the performance
> I have friends who shoot plastic guns. Fine weapons, some of the best, I just don't like them. They know I don't care for them but don't tell me I'm an idiot because of it.
> So........wadda think, give a guy a break?



The problem is he has apparently never used one, never seen one used but is willing to condemn a highly recommended tool solely because it has a plastic handle. Not at all a logical decision.

I have made plenty of decisions based on my prejudices but at least I give serious considerations to the "opposition" before deciding.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Dec 2, 2012)

turnkey4099 said:


> The problem is he has apparently never used one, never seen one used but is willing to condemn a highly recommended tool solely because it has a plastic handle. Not at all a logical decision.
> 
> I have made plenty of decisions based on my prejudices but at least I give serious considerations to the "opposition" before deciding.
> 
> Harry K



Hit the 'send' before I was ready. Addition to above:

I, too, like wood handled tools and am willign to put up witht he constant maintenance, replacing, retightening, etc. that goes with them. Were I to buy anohter sledge or maul I might switch to plastic handles.

Harry K


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## Iron Head (Dec 2, 2012)

You need a hickory handle with a metal collar.


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## Justsaws (Dec 2, 2012)

aarolar said:


> I bought a brand new little boys axe at tractor supply today to keep in the toolbox of the truck and for splitting up kindling. Got home and sharpened it up as it was dull as a butter knife took it out back and on the second swing the head broke off. :msp_sneaky: So I came inside and was going to sit down and write truper an email and came to find out they don't even have a english website. :msp_thumbdn: Guess I will just have to take it back to tractor supply and exchange it.
> 
> Before everybody starts recommending a fiskars x25 or 27 I am not a fan of plastic, I don't own a plastic handgun,shotgun or rifle and I would rather have a hickory or ash handle on my axe...



I think that you will be disappointed in that " brand" of wooden handled tools. Even thier fibergass handles are trash.


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## PEKS (Dec 2, 2012)

The Plastic Handle on the X27 has been very, very good to me..


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## zogger (Dec 2, 2012)

srb08 said:


> Holy crap guys, the only thing he said was, he didn't want a plastic handled hatchet. He didn't insult your mother or try to molest your daughter.
> I own three Fiskars tools, two cutting axes and an x27. I love them but if someone else hates them, that's fine with me, I don't really care. The only reason I own them is because there is not a traditional, wood handled, tool that can match the performance
> I have friends who shoot plastic guns. Fine weapons, some of the best, I just don't like them. They know I don't care for them but don't tell me I'm an idiot because of it.
> So........wadda think, give a guy a break?



He does have a break. There are options for quality hatchets with wooden handles, they just aren't going to be found at tractor supply for cheap money..that's all. If there was a cheap good quality wooden handled hatchet or axe out there, a whole bunch of us would go get one and it would be talked up here a lot. There ain't. The good ones cost serious money. There's certainly a market for a cheap one..I'd take one, just for grins. But it's unobtanium today.

The only *credible* option for "good + durable + cheap" for wooden handled striking tools is to haunt yard sales/pawn shops, etc and look for an old, old quality steel head one for cheap, then rehandle and sharpen, etc as necessary. Brand new..no option. You can get "good + durable" but it ain't cheap. You can get cheap, but as seen in the original post, it doesn't even hit good nor durable, just "cheap". Only makes a single one of the engineering criteria..cheap. It's his rant after all. Two minutes at home, it's dull and the handle broke. Then he goes "no plastic handles no fiskars" etc...and there's no answer. We've all looked, doesn't exist for cheap.

What are we supposed to say???

Back in the 50s and 60s and earlier they certainly made some decent wooden handled tools like that, but they only exist used now, so get to scrounging!


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## aarolar (Dec 2, 2012)

Man I don't even know where to start on all this but I'm going to try who woulda thought something so simple could cause such an uproar?



EXCALIBER said:


> Well not sure how to respond to this thread. You care that much about a wood handle, just keep buying them. Problem solved. Perhaps you can buy them in bulk and get a discount, or by the dozen? Then you might be able to make it through a day.
> 
> I have been using wooden handles for a long time and they last alot longer that a day usually a whole splitting season barring no major incidents. If it was common place for handles to break so easy for me why would I have bothered to make a post about it? Wouldn't I have just pulled another handle out of my bulk stash and kept on going for another few minuets?
> 
> ...







iowa said:


> I hope there isn't any plastic parts on that splitter of yours! Like the engine or handles, or fenders, etc.
> What's the deal with plastic? I guess maybe what you should look at is was it made in the USA! But I might be a little partial to plastics since I work in the plastics industry.



Completely different in a plastic handle I am doing physical work with and the plastic cowling on my engine that I only touch to service the engine. 



srb08 said:


> Holy crap guys, the only thing he said was, he didn't want a plastic handled hatchet. He didn't insult your mother or try to molest your daughter.
> I own three Fiskars tools, two cutting axes and an x27. I love them but if someone else hates them, that's fine with me, I don't really care. The only reason I own them is because there is not a traditional, wood handled, tool that can match the performance
> I have friends who shoot plastic guns. Fine weapons, some of the best, I just don't like them. They know I don't care for them but don't tell me I'm an idiot because of it.
> So........wadda think, give a guy a break?



At least one person understands what I am saying...



turnkey4099 said:


> The problem is he has apparently never used one, never seen one used but is willing to condemn a highly recommended tool solely because it has a plastic handle. Not at all a logical decision.
> 
> I have made plenty of decisions based on my prejudices but at least I give serious considerations to the "opposition" before deciding.
> 
> Harry K



For the third time now I have not ever condemned or degraded or said anything negative about the "highly recommended tool" for any reason. I simply stated that *I* for my own personal reasons do not like plastic handled tools so please quit saying I am insulting yall's beloved fiskars. 


Can one of you fanboys please quote me as to where I insulted your fiskars products, I don't consider the fact that I don't want on on account of a feature I don't like to be an insult just simply a personal preference.:rolleyes2:


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## aarolar (Dec 2, 2012)

zogger said:


> He does have a break. There are options for quality hatchets with wooden handles, they just aren't going to be found at tractor supply for cheap money..that's all. If there was a cheap good quality wooden handled hatchet or axe out there, a whole bunch of us would go get one and it would be talked up here a lot. There ain't. The good ones cost serious money. There's certainly a market for a cheap one..I'd take one, just for grins. But it's unobtanium today.
> 
> The only *credible* option for "good + durable + cheap" for wooden handled striking tools is to haunt yard sales/pawn shops, etc and look for an old, old quality steel head one for cheap, then rehandle and sharpen, etc as necessary. Brand new..no option. You can get "good + durable" but it ain't cheap. You can get cheap, but as seen in the original post, it doesn't even hit good nor durable, just "cheap". Only makes a single one of the engineering criteria..cheap. It's his rant after all. Two minutes at home, it's dull and the handle broke. Then he goes "no plastic handles no fiskars" etc...and there's no answer. We've all looked, doesn't exist for cheap.
> 
> ...



My post (I don't remember ranting) is strictly based on the handle breaking, the dull part is easily fixed. There is no way the handle in this thing should have broken like that I have had many cheap handles and never had on break on the second swing that's what my post was about. I didn't ask for advice on a better product or anything else and am very fimilar with the good cheap durable theory and most of the time I do spend more on better things. However this was bought as a keep in the truck type deal which as I said before means it could get left behind or stolen most any time which is why I don't want to spend more in this case. If this was going to be used at home with any frequency I would have most certainly went with a better tool. The whole issue here is there is way too much assuming going on and it's getting ridiculous.

On the note of old tools I am always on the lookout for old tools I like to buy them and restore them to their former glory. I have several old tools that I use on a daily basis at my real job and on the weekends and they are vastly superior to anything you can buy new.


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## FLHX Storm (Dec 2, 2012)

aarolar said:


> For the third time now I have not ever condemned or degraded or said anything negative about the "highly recommended tool" for any reason. I simply stated that *I* for my own personal reasons do not like plastic handled tools so please quit saying I am insulting yall's beloved fiskars.
> 
> 
> Can one of you *fanboys* please quote me as to where I insulted your fiskars products, I don't consider the fact that I don't want on on account of a feature I don't like to be an insult just simply a personal preference.:rolleyes2:



Damn, a little testy so early in the morning! All anyone in my opinion has been trying to do is SUGGEST you go with different style product. I don't see any of us actually condemning you for your love of wood type handles. Many of us SUGGESTED the Fiskars because of our personal experience with them. Your responses have been both snide and sarcastic and your definitely coming across with bad attitude all the way around. Personally I love a wood handle, but I can't find any that are durable enough to withstand my many many errors.


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## zogger (Dec 2, 2012)

aarolar said:


> My post (I don't remember ranting) is strictly based on the handle breaking, the dull part is easily fixed. There is no way the handle in this thing should have broken like that I have had many cheap handles and never had on break on the second swing that's what my post was about. I didn't ask for advice on a better product or anything else and am very fimilar with the good cheap durable theory and most of the time I do spend more on better things. However this was bought as a keep in the truck type deal which as I said before means it could get left behind or stolen most any time which is why I don't want to spend more in this case. If this was going to be used at home with any frequency I would have most certainly went with a better tool. The whole issue here is there is way too much assuming going on and it's getting ridiculous.
> 
> On the note of old tools I am always on the lookout for old tools I like to buy them and restore them to their former glory. I have several old tools that I use on a daily basis at my real job and on the weekends and they are vastly superior to anything you can buy new.



So there ya go, problem solved as soon as you can find a used old hatchet head. In the meantime tractor supply may or may not totally replace it for you, or you might have to get another handle on your own.

I actually agree with you in a way, on another subject, but I hit the same brick wall.

Some years back I got the bug to get an old "chicago typewriter". Just wanted one, that's all. nostalgia and who knows one day might have come in handy.. Old heavy but reliable. Fun. Very well built, I've handled one and checked the machining, just top notch. Deal is, I waited too long! New (fully functional as intended) and close to affordable are only available to dealers and governmental "superior approved citizens" and used they cost like half a year's pay for me, plus wait and government BS fee. Unobtanium for me then, just ain't gonna happen. I can get more modern and less expensive alternate type 2nd amendment tools that function quite well..but it isn't what I want, old school, well made steel parts, with a wooden handle(s).


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## aarolar (Dec 2, 2012)

FLHX Storm said:


> Damn, a little testy so early in the morning! All anyone in my opinion has been trying to do is SUGGEST you go with different style product. I don't see any of us actually condemning you for your love of wood type handles. Many of us SUGGESTED the Fiskars because of our personal experience with them. Your responses have been both snide and sarcastic and your definitely coming across with bad attitude all the way around. Personally I love a wood handle, but I can't find any that are durable enough to withstand my many many errors.



I thought I had been quite polite with most of my responses, matter of interpretation I guess. :msp_confused: I certainly don't want to come away from this with any enemies on here about an axe. I just get the feeling of being called an idiot for not getting a fiskars and preferring wooden handled tools.

So at this point lets all agree to disagree and move on with our lives, ill update again with what ever happens when I go to return it and we can all have a relaxing sunday afternoon deal? :msp_thumbsup:


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## flyboy553 (Dec 2, 2012)

aarolar said:


> I thought I had been quite polite with most of my responses, matter of interpretation I guess. :msp_confused: I certainly don't want to come away from this with any enemies on here about an axe. I just get the feeling of being called an idiot for not getting a fiskars and preferring wooden handled tools.



Well, if you are an idiot for that, then so am I. Am thinking about naming my splitter Fiskars Shmiskars! 

Now for a disclaimer: for years and years everyone said I should get a computer. I adamantly refused until one day I thought I would try one, and by golly, the rest is history. So it IS possible for me to change my mind, just highly unlikely.:bang:? Who knows? 

Ted


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## zogger (Dec 2, 2012)

aarolar said:


> I thought I had been quite polite with most of my responses, matter of interpretation I guess. :msp_confused: I certainly don't want to come away from this with any enemies on here about an axe. I just get the feeling of being called an idiot for not getting a fiskars and preferring wooden handled tools.
> 
> So at this point lets all agree to disagree and move on with our lives, ill update again with what ever happens when I go to return it and we can all have a relaxing sunday afternoon deal? :msp_thumbsup:



Absolutely man!


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## OhioGregg (Dec 2, 2012)

I too tend to like the "old fashioned" stuff. Guess Thats why I like the older, mostly magnesium saws, over the mostly plastic ones of today. I bought this ax off ebay back in 2008, was pretty cheap. Evansville Defender is what is stamped in the head. I use it mostly for driving wedges when felling. Also use it to hack apart big rounds out in the woods, that don't cleanly come apart with the sledge & wedge. Maybe they don't make wood handles like they used to. Cause if anyone can break one, it would be me.:msp_mad: It has held up great so far. That being said, next time I use it, probably miss and send the head off to wild blue yonder.








Gregg,


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## rmount (Dec 2, 2012)

You need to get my grandfather's axe, best axe ever - the handle has only been replaced three times and the head once, at it's still as good as new


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## FLHX Storm (Dec 2, 2012)

aarolar said:


> I thought I had been quite polite with most of my responses, matter of interpretation I guess. :msp_confused: I certainly don't want to come away from this with any enemies on here about an axe. I just get the feeling of being called an idiot for not getting a fiskars and preferring wooden handled tools.
> 
> So at this point lets all agree to disagree and move on with our lives, ill update again with what ever happens when I go to return it and we can all have a relaxing sunday afternoon deal? :msp_thumbsup:



Yep, everything is open for interpretation. Especially written text. Since we can't see you or your expressions it's easy to misinterpret someones intent. 

Heck, I have had some tell me I'm mean locally! Not that I am mind you, or at least I don't think I am. I can be a bit ornery at tines though. It's all a matter of interpretation. Anyway, one thing to remember: even the best of friends have differences of opinions. That doesn't mean they will discontinue being the best of friends. In the end, an axe is still an axe regardless of the price or the type handle. So no worries here.

I don't know about the relaxing thing though. I'm going out shortly to split some more wood to complete my second Holz Hausen. 

I'll wish y'all luck in returning the hatchet. If they won't take it back maybe see if they will give you a new better handle. (free of charge)


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## MotorSeven (Dec 2, 2012)

Hey sorry for the "assumption".....won't be the last time I make a azz out of myself ether:hmm3grin2orange: Since you didn't explain those marks it sure didn't look good for ya. Maybe it's just me, but every single wooden handled ax I have owned gets loose....even the Marbles hatchet I picked up brand new. I agree, nothing nicer in look and feel than (your own)good wood. But for me I have switched to plastic and just get my wood "fix" on my gunstocks.


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## flashhole (Dec 2, 2012)

I just want to know if Tractor Supply will replace the one that broke. :rolleyes2:


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## cantoo (Dec 2, 2012)

OhioGregg, that looks like a good axe, just look at that grain on the handle. But alas I'm having a problem with your opinion on this matter, after all you do use Polans so I'll bet the axe is a huge improvement..
Couldn't resist upping the post count of this thread. 


Forever Stihl.....


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## aarolar (Dec 2, 2012)

While we are all here on the topic of wood handles, where can a man find a good quality wood handle?


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## TreeGuyHR (Dec 2, 2012)

aarolar said:


> While we are all here on the topic of wood handles, where can a man find a good quality wood handle?



First off, you have to know your wood -- hickory is best for axes, ash or hickory for shovels and other long-handled tools.

A lot of handles in discount stores (or your local Ace) are tropical hardwoods which may or may not hold up as well.

Second, look at the grain -- you want an even width to the rings, not to wide or narrow, and without a sudden change in ring width


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## zogger (Dec 2, 2012)

aarolar said:


> While we are all here on the topic of wood handles, where can a man find a good quality wood handle?



google hickory handle, top link is a well known company, I know some hickory from this farm went thataway some years back before I worked here..I've cut up one now and will be doing more from that exact same patch pretty soon now. 

some site sponsors offer replacement handles

you can always make your own as well, lotta youtube vids out there

You don 't necessarily have to use hickory, just hickory is the most commonly used


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## OhioGregg (Dec 2, 2012)

cantoo said:


> OhioGregg, that looks like a good axe, just look at that grain on the handle. But alas I'm having a problem with your opinion on this matter, after all you do use Polans so I'll bet the axe is a huge improvement..
> Couldn't resist upping the post count of this thread.
> 
> 
> Forever Stihl.....



Ha, Your a funny guy! Its not nice you laughing. My 4000, 4200, 5200 get the idea your laughing at them! Now, if you apologize to them, like I know your going too....

Apologies to OP for the side track of your post.


Gregg,


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## srb08 (Dec 2, 2012)

OhioGregg said:


> Ha, Your a funny guy! Its not nice you laughing. My 4000, 4200, 5200 get the idea your laughing at them! Now, if you apologize to them, like I know your going too....
> 
> Apologies to OP for the side track of your post.
> 
> ...



This thread has been side tracked much worse.


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## aarolar (Dec 3, 2012)

Without further ado the answer to the $18 question...


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## flashhole (Dec 3, 2012)

Yep, after a day of cuttin, splittin, and stackin, I go right for a cold ...... milk!


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## zogger (Dec 3, 2012)

flashhole said:


> Yep, after a day of cuttin, splittin, and stackin, I go right for a cold ...... milk!



What? Why...that's St. Holsteins Cream Lager!


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## aarolar (Dec 3, 2012)

flashhole said:


> Yep, after a day of cuttin, splittin, and stackin, I go right for a cold ...... milk!



There were cookies to go with it I just stopped long enough to snap a picture of the replacement hatchet.


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## zogger (Dec 3, 2012)

aarolar said:


> There were cookies to go with it I just stopped long enough to snap a picture of the replacement hatchet.



this means you can quick go back to their returns pile area and grab a replacement head for cheap bucks! My local TSC has a whole little room for the markdowns/returns and is always the first place I go check out when I go in there.


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## computeruser (Dec 3, 2012)

I recently bought some handles from House Handle Co. on the strength of a couple recommendations here on AS. Good stuff at a great price. I sanded off the varnish, fit the handles to the heads properly and hung the heads, then a few coats of linseed oil. Nice results for sure! If the head is OK and they eye is of fairly standard size, and you already got it sharpened up, why not throw on a new handle?


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## MotorSeven (Dec 4, 2012)

Never leave your Murse that close to the stove....melting naugahyde might stink up the place.


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## Whitespider (Dec 4, 2012)

turnkey4099 said:


> *The problem is he has apparently never used one, never seen one used but is willing to condemn a highly recommended tool solely because it has a plastic handle. Not at all a logical decision.*



Yeah well... I got a Fiskars X27, even though I have a strong repugnance to steel, fiberglass, plastic or any sort of synthetic handle on a striking tool. I will admit the Fiskars handle is likely the best of any synthetic I’ve used… but it still ain’t a replacement for a good hickory handle in my mind. I got the Fiskars because of all the wonderful reviews I read right here on this board… I don’t have a negative review of it, but it sure don’t have the “magical” properties so many claim it does. Yep, it does a better job of splitting firewood than a felling axe… but it sure don’t replace a good hickory-handled maul. As far as a hatchet goes… not interested in a Fiskars, I’m sticking with a wooden handle.

So there ya' go... The Fiskars does not come "_highly recommended_" by me (but I ain't condemning it either).
If ya' like it that's fine, if ya' don't... well, ya' ain't missing out on all that much.


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## rmount (Dec 4, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> If ya' like it that's fine, if ya' don't... well, ya' ain't missing out on all that much.



Soapbox on:

If only we could apply this attitude to more issues. It seems most things in the world these days elicit either raves or rants when the middle ground, or at least a non-extremist position, generally works OK.

Soapbox off.


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## aarolar (Dec 4, 2012)

rmount said:


> Soapbox on:
> 
> If only we could apply this attitude to more issues. It seems most things in the world these days elicit either raves or rants when the middle ground, or at least a non-extremist position, generally works OK.
> 
> Soapbox off.



Amen


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## Coldfront (Dec 4, 2012)

If you want to use a wooden handle fine, just don't cry when it breaks.


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## greendohn (Dec 4, 2012)

I've been lucky in finding my splitting tools "American Pickers" style. 
I don't use the old maul much at all,,I've got hydraulics for the big stuff. I do love the feel of the hickory handle. Had to replace it a couple winters ago,,new one was labeled ASH and made right close to me in Symore, Indiana. It's holding up well and feels great in the hand.
I gotta a little Eastwing hatchet by the wood stove in the go-rodge,,steel handle. Use a 3lb. hand sledge at times for driving it thru wood for kindling, not often,,but it happens. I've had it for years and years..
Recently scored and love a longer wood handled hatchet,,old school in looks and feel, which has replaced the Eastwing for the most part, I WON'T be using a hand sledge to drive it thru any thing. It works much better than the lil' hatchet.

My wood cuttin' buddy has two Fiskars, a long and short one. They do swing well and seem to split nice..I don't desire one, aint wanting one, either..That aint to say I wouldn't buy one on a whim if'n I had some x-tra doe and was feeling compulsive.

Call me a dummy, if'n you will,,my gun closet will never have plastic/polymer in it..tried that with a T/C black powder out fit,,it,,it just,,,didn't look right hanging out with them purty wood-stocked Remingtons...Each to their own is what I've always thought...Peace, men.


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## aarolar (Dec 4, 2012)

Coldfront said:


> If you want to use a wooden handle fine, just don't cry when it breaks.



If it breaks on the second swing I will every time.


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## GVS (Dec 4, 2012)

rmount said:


> Soapbox on:
> 
> If only we could apply this attitude to more issues. It seems most things in the world these days elicit either raves or rants when the middle ground, or at least a non-extremist position, generally works OK.
> 
> Soapbox off.





Agreed!I'm a solid proponent of "whatever floats your boat" or "whatever blows your skirt up"


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## Whitespider (Dec 4, 2012)

Coldfront said:


> *If you want to use a wooden handle fine, just don't cry when it breaks.*



The (supposedly) unbreakable handle is a positive selling point for synthetic handles and such… but the negatives never get mentioned.

Simple physics… in order to apply equal force to the object being struck, steel and synthetic handles require you to grip tighter and swing harder than a hickory handle. Steel and synthetic handles absorb more recoil causing the tool head to “bounce-back” more… and that bounce-back equals a reduction of striking force.

Try this simple test…
Take three 16 oz hammers, one with a steel handle, one with a synthetic handle, one with a hickory handle and strike an anvil with them. Try to keep grip tension and swinging force as close to the same as possible for all three, and see which bounces higher off the anvil. The hammer with the hickory handle will bounce dramatically less. The more bounce, the more energy transferred into recoil and handle vibration… the more energy transferred into recoil and vibration, the less energy applied to the object being struck. To overcome this disadvantage with steel and synthetic you must grip tighter and swing harder. Steel and synthetics “absorb” more recoil (in a way, they “flex” more… sort of) which allows the tool head to get moving in the direction of recoil; hickory “dampens” recoil and vibration… makes the tool act more like a dead-blow. Using a hickory handle, if all else remains equal, you will expend less energy to accomplish the same amount of work.


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## cmsmoke (Dec 4, 2012)

Ouch!...Steel handle on a hammer? No thank you. Worked with a duck-bill hammer for breaking the bead on truck tires. Somebody broke the handle and weld a 1-1/2" pipe to it...as long as you hit rubber you were fine...Miss and hit the rim once. My hands sting just thinking about it!


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## zogger (Dec 4, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> The (supposedly) unbreakable handle is a positive selling point for synthetic handles and such… but the negatives never get mentioned.
> 
> Simple physics… in order to apply equal force to the object being struck, steel and synthetic handles require you to grip tighter and swing harder than a hickory handle. Steel and synthetic handles absorb more recoil causing the tool head to “bounce-back” more… and that bounce-back equals a reduction of striking force.
> 
> ...



I don't think so man......you get a lot right, but not in this case as per your physics...observation correct, the conclusion isn't, it's backwards..you'll see it....

Same amount of energy if the weight is the same and the swing is the same, we'll start with that.. The slop, the wasted energy, is going into your hands/wrists/arms with the wooden handle and somewhat into a flex and compression of the wood, rather than a more pronounced bounce. The energy is neither created nor destroyed, just transferred *differently* One is not any more powerful than the other, just the energy is moved in a differing fashion.. And because in your example, when the steel is never going to be broken or split, no matter which handle is being used, it sort of doesn't translate to a discussion of an edged striking tool. The two that are bouncing in your example are actually working better, that's what the bounce is proving. It's going into the head and reflecting, not travelling into the handle as bad. Let's get back to edges and splitting in a bit...

The steel and synthetic will bounce, yes, but *you* are absorbing the slopped impact with the wooden handle,along with the wood compressing a little and bending a little, and breaking a little with every swing... which to me is a negative. 

I want as much of the energy transferred as possible to the wood being split. Without having any wasted energy going into my hands, or having the handle take it and suffering catastrophic damage. I'm not getting any work out of the wooden handle it is a parasitic factor to the real world job at hand.

Here is a very close example, closer than your example I believe, and is researchable to prove this (continued)



Ever notice they don't allow metallic (or synthetic I guess) bats in pro baseball? They do this both from a nostaligia point of view, because of old records (they want to compare apples to apples as much as possible) and just..wooden bats,traditional, but *also*, from real world testing and analysis, because when a ball is struck with a metallic bat the return travel o the ball is much faster and harder than with a wooden bat. So muEch so it is instantly noticeable and at those pro levels, downright dangerous. There's MORE kinetic energy transferred to the ball and less "wasted" energy. It is SO much faster they consider it to be hazardous to the players.

Even with pro level player quality reflexes, the pitcher and infielders could be hit and suffer injury. Even at the top levels they quite literally could be faced with not being able to either catch or just dodge the ball. It happened a lot, they noticed this. It is allowed at lesser levels merely because neither the pitchers are as fast throwing, nor are the batters fast or hard enough swingers to have this dramatic result. It's there, but the results are still inside "normal human" reflex capability to deal with it. Go to pro level..different story...banned.

Same as in most other sports, either for competition or just for fun, where the *option* of having and using a synthetic handle is allowed or offered...the synthetics pretty much dominate based on real world "productivity gains".

example..how many world class pro tennis players use wooden racquets any more? Same deal, wooden handled tool in the hands striking something...they are alowed synthetics, they could use wood if they wanted to, some company could make one sell it for thousands a copy if it produced...uhh..doesn't happen. Real world engineering/physics and productivity gains. Lighter/faster/stronger, kinetic energy transferred to target better. Can use longer with less fatigue. And so on. Guys want to win the millions, that means the better tool handle. Wood ain't it. 


Wood absorbs the shockwaves pretty well (when it doesn't break...), but it doesn't hit harder in other words, it transers less and wastes more of the energy, either the steel(or aluminum) or synthetic will get the job done better as regards splitting wood, transferring the energy from striking head to block to be split, given the factors of weight and speed of swing, etc being equal. Steel transfers any wasted energy shock bad, hence the addition of rubber or leather coverings, but the synthetics are both easier on the hands and also just work better in getting the work done, the energy gets transferred better. The wood is a scosh "softer" but, you have to swing aster and harder to get the same results, so that cancels that little advantage. The synthetics are the top choice out of the three options for the handles for both maintaining control and not suffering repetetive stress type injuries, and also for just getting it done. For repair or replace, well, yes, you can make your own handles, but why do that when you don't have to? Grins? it's not an advantage this side of societal collapse or living in the wilderness, due to "supply issues". Anything besides that, it's a negative. Nostalgia is cool, I respect that, but it isn't something that can be measured, it has no basis with productivity, so you can't call nostalgia as "better" once you get into the engineering basis.

So I will disagree with you on this point 100%. It may and does "feel" better to a lot of guys to have the wooden handles, this is because of the "anti vibration" effect they perceive (to a degree, some other factors but that is mostly it, along with just the "traditional' aspect) but they simply cannot perform the same as a more modern engineered metal or, the much better choice, the composite handle, which has less shock than the wood because of better energy transerrence to the target.. You get the best of both worlds with the composite, more transferred energy to the target, less shock waves into your hands/wrists/arms. Wood gives an appearance of less shock, but not really, it is more placebo nostalgia than not, and it suffers damage more readily. 

Nor are the wooden handles as durable for the most part, again easily proven with the warranties and with all of us here in real world heavy (not casual/occassional) use. Wooden handles just break a lot more often, and that's just it..it's just reality, I've broken a lot before. I would be HARD pressed to break a fiskars handle. And fiskars is certainly aware of the "wood" option, they would use it if it was better/performed better/cheaper. They do not. They aren't amatuers. they are totally comfortable from a real world bean counter perspective to offer lifetime full replacement warrenty. Because their stuff works so much better, that's why, they simply know they aren't going to be getting back near as many with their design as if they used a wooden handled whatever.

If wooden handles would last, or perform as well or better, they all would be warrantied for life, ususally..nope, you just have to go buy a replacement handle from company x.yz even these high priced examples talked about around here. (some exceptions, but for the most part..handles are sold as-is, take yer chances and they are expected to break and need replacing a lot if used heavily)

Although having the ability to relatively easily make your own handles is spiffy cool neato with wood. I have both, wood is now tier two based on a lot of use. It is emergency backup. 

I have much less "beef" with my body because of my size and stature compared to most guys to use and therefore less overall grunt than a lot of guys, that's just reality and I have learned to deal with it over the years doing similar outdoor and blue collar employment type physical tasks. I've had to learn to the do the same dang job as guys twice my weight like forever. Thereore, I have always had to learn better technique and proper tool use over just grunting harder, PLUS, be on the ball and be paying attention to the market and grab a better tool when it showed up. It REALLY shows up for me how much better an advanced design and sythentic axe like a fiskars is compared to a random similar sized and weight chunk of steel on a wooden stick is, especially at their price point. Extensive experience with both. Simply no comparison in real world use, hmm..keeping it closer on topic around here, like comparing a stock some size clogged up homerenters saw with a same displacement and close enough similar weight modded and opened up pro saw. It's silly to even debate it. Both will cut wood, sure, one is just hands down much faster with less operator fatigue, etc. Same as in hand splitting.


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## Whitespider (Dec 4, 2012)

Sorry *zogger*, but you are the one who is wrong.
A moving striking tool has x-amount of energy (mass and velocity), given the same weight, velocity and hand grip tension, the one that rebounds the most uses has transferred more of the energy into the rebound… it-is-what-it-is.

Your comparison to baseball bats and tennis rackets is not apples-to-apples. Metal (aluminum) baseball bats are hollow in the striking area, the handle and striking area are one-piece, and because of the huge difference in weight a player can generate a lot more speed with it. The metal (again, hollow aluminum) part of a tennis racket is simply the frame for a flexible (spring-like) striking area, and the lighter weight allows the player to generate a lot more speed with the racket.

You are correct about the lighter/faster/stronger part, but not about the recoil part… everything is a trade-off. What works with sports gear striking relatively light-weight balls ain’t the same with striking tools … not apples-to-apples.


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## aarolar (Dec 4, 2012)

He's got a point those bats are so effective simply because they are elastic and that elasticity is what causes them to be so much more effective. That same elasticity is what causes them to loose more of your power when swinging an axe to bust a round of wood. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxI3svB_O44

Watch this video it explains it very well at about 1:10.


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## cantoo (Dec 4, 2012)

At this rate this thread is going to catch up to the WTF thread.


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## Stihl310 (Dec 4, 2012)

Wow, can't you all just split wood... I Know my personal experience has proven the fiskars is far superior to any splitting implement I've ever used, but if you want to whack something with a wood handle then go for it.


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## mrgoodkat (Dec 4, 2012)

Im too lazy to read all the posts but if you want a real hatchet/camp size axe, save up the money or sell a kid if you have one and get a gransfors bruks. You wont be disappointed. Period.


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## FLHX Storm (Dec 5, 2012)

I have several wood handles, all of which were broken off axes, shovels, and rakes. They make great walking sticks or something to keep around if someone gets unruly! :msp_scared: 

I do have a wood handled axe that has survived me to date, but it receives little use other than stump removal since it's just a regular axe and not a splitting axe. I did recently put a wood handle back on my old pick axe but only because I couldn't find a composite or fiberglass handle to fit. N no mauls, they're too heavy for me!

My actual preference is something light weight that will do the job I need it for, multi purpose is even better, but will also needs to last more than a few uses. As I stated in an earlier post, that's only because I'm rough on the equipment. 

The "True Temper 4# splitting axe" did the pile on the right of the picture. The Fiskars X27 did the pile on the left. (a work in progress)

View attachment 265705


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## Whitespider (Dec 5, 2012)

Actually I like fiberglass handles on “garden” tools like shovels, spades and hoes, but it doesn’t matter what handle they put on a rake; just seems nobody can make a rake that fits my hands… they all just slide right through my grip 

I’ve broken several wooden handles on shovels and spades (normally ash handles); mostly because I’m using them for something they were never designed to do... such as prying on roots and such. I’ve only broken one hickory handle on a striking tool, a 13 ounce carpenters hammer while trying to pull a 20p pole-barn nail (not very bright on my part). Admittedly I do have to replace hickory handles on striking tools every 5-10 years, depending on the tool. Not because I break them, more because they eventually “wear-out” (for lack of a better term)… they tend to get “dry” and “open-up” along the grain, which causes vibration to travel through the handle, increasing rebound, and increasing the likelihood of splinters. I’ve had my 8# splitting maul for over 30 years, I’ve replaced the handle twice… but I’ve never broken it.

By-the-way, a top-grade, defect-free hickory handle will last 2 or 3 times as long as a lesser grade. Also, a hickory handle with defects, knots, irregular grain, and whatnot will transfer more vibration to the hands and increase rebound. Like the preacher said… “_Nothin’ like a good piece of hickory._”


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## brenndatomu (Dec 5, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> Actually I like fiberglass handles on “garden” tools like shovels, spades and hoes, but it doesn’t matter what handle they put on a rake; just seems nobody can make a rake that fits my hands… they all just slide right through my grip
> 
> I’ve broken several wooden handles on shovels and spades (normally ash handles); mostly because I’m using them for something they were never designed to do... such as prying on roots and such. I’ve only broken one hickory handle on a striking tool, a 13 ounce carpenters hammer while trying to pull a 20p pole-barn nail (not very bright on my part). Admittedly I do have to replace hickory handles on striking tools every 5-10 years, depending on the tool. Not because I break them, more because they eventually “wear-out” (for lack of a better term)… they tend to get “dry” and “open-up” along the grain, which causes vibration to travel through the handle, increasing rebound, and increasing the likelihood of splinters. I’ve had my 8# splitting maul for over 30 years, I’ve replaced the handle twice… but I’ve never broken it.
> 
> By-the-way, a top-grade, defect-free hickory handle will last 2 or 3 times as long as a lesser grade. Also, a hickory handle with defects, knots, irregular grain, and whatnot will transfer more vibration to the hands and increase rebound. *Like the preacher said… “Nothin’ like a good piece of hickory.”*



Your preacher has firewood sermons!?!?! MAN, you got it BAD! :hmm3grin2orange:
EDIT: Or was that a tool handle sermon? :hmm3grin2orange:


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## McCulloch1-52 (Dec 5, 2012)

Maybe you should go with a Husqvarna axe


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## EXCALIBER (Dec 5, 2012)

Well if wood is so superior to anything else for splitting and force applied, perhaps just make the entire axe out of a piece of hickory (including the head). Then you will have a one of a kind all wood axe that you could just drop on a round and watch the round explode 

Whitespider, now for more splitting force based on just the handle of the axe is a myth, fairytale, and a farce. The striking force will remain the same on any hammer of the same size, and shape swung at the same speed. Thats just basic physics. Energy transfer and force are two different things.


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## smokee (Dec 5, 2012)

For laughs I should post a pic of my generic, plastic handled, el cheapo, junky, Wal-mart special, hunk of crap, was left in the house when we moved in maul that I use. 

...but hey, it splits a log like a mother and I really don't give a s**t what the natives think of it.

Ps, I am thinking of getting smaller Fiskars for the camper. 

Much respect for the OP's opinion on what he likes - diversity makes the world go around.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 5, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> Actually I like fiberglass handles on “garden” tools like shovels, spades and hoes, but it doesn’t matter what handle they put on a rake; just seems nobody can make a rake that fits my hands… they all just slide right through my grip
> 
> I’ve broken several wooden handles on shovels and spades (normally ash handles); mostly because I’m using them for something they were never designed to do... such as prying on roots and such. I’ve only broken one hickory handle on a striking tool, a 13 ounce carpenters hammer while trying to pull a 20p pole-barn nail (not very bright on my part). Admittedly I do have to replace hickory handles on striking tools every 5-10 years, depending on the tool. Not because I break them, more because they eventually “wear-out” (for lack of a better term)… they tend to get “dry” and “open-up” along the grain, which causes vibration to travel through the handle, increasing rebound, and increasing the likelihood of splinters. I’ve had my 8# splitting maul for over 30 years, I’ve replaced the handle twice… but I’ve never broken it.
> 
> By-the-way, a top-grade, defect-free hickory handle will last 2 or 3 times as long as a lesser grade. Also, a hickory handle with defects, knots, irregular grain, and whatnot will transfer more vibration to the hands and increase rebound.* Like the preacher said… “Nothin’ like a good piece of hickory.”*






brenndatomu said:


> [/COLOR][/U][/B]
> Your preacher has firewood sermons!?!?! MAN, you got it BAD! :hmm3grin2orange:
> EDIT: Or was that a tool handle sermon? :hmm3grin2orange:



Man, it just hit me. It's no wonder your stacks are so purty, preacher man been teaching ya'll how to be good lil firewooders all these years! :angel:


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## zogger (Dec 5, 2012)

EXCALIBER said:


> Well if wood is so superior to anything else for splitting and force applied, perhaps just make the entire axe out of a piece of hickory (including the head). Then you will have a one of a kind all wood axe that you could just drop on a round and watch the round explode
> 
> Whitespider, now for more splitting force based on just the handle of the axe is a myth, fairytale, and a farce. The striking force will remain the same on any hammer of the same size, and shape swung at the same speed. Thats just basic physics. Energy transfer and force are two different things.



Yes you want all the weight at the head, as much as possible, with the lightest possible handle that can still work as a handle. The work is in the weight of the head being transferred to the wood being split, anything else is a drag on that happening. The more the handle weighs and the springier or softer it is, the more you are wasting effort into just swinging the handle and not swinging head weight. This is also the main reason the composite handles bounce more with WS's anvil test, more of the kinetic energy *remains in the head*, rather than getting dissipated down the handle. Just obvious...the balance point is right there at the head, not down the handle, with the lighter weight and stronger composites. I knew this and finally remembered where I had seen the video to show this.

Here is the fiskars baileys test video showing why the shape/engineering of the head and handle is superior in fiskars and those similar more modern designed types of striking tools. Just dang those pesky engineers and scientists coming up with something better, how dare they! 

It eliminates all this subjective non quantifiable "feel" criteria and focuses on performance. You can *see* it in action splitting (granted, wussy) test blocks of wood. No "feel" needed, proof in the video.

Fiskars X-Series Axes and Mauls Comparison from Baileysonline.com - YouTube

This is the closest thing I have found to a real scientific test. With saws, we have some actual numbers to look at, including felt vibration, and also speed tests in the same wood, that are measured and quantifiable and repeatable. With these axe and handle etc discussions, half of it is "feel" which is HUGELY subjective and I think heavily influenced by nostalgia. To me, the fiskars handle feels just fine, equal to or better than wood, as soon as the brand new out of the box slipperiness of the handle is wiped off a little. Fits the hands good, very little transferred shock. also noticeably lighter in the hands. You can certainly "feel" that. And I certainly "feel" better when I can split three times the wood, three times faster, with half the effort *or less* over the old anvil on a stick! That's the most important "feel" to me! 15-20 minutes with the wood handle anvil on the stick and I "feel" bushed, 15-20 minutes with a better designed and built tool, I "feel" just getting warmed up!

Might as well go back to wood or bone handle and knapped flint/chert/obsidian rock heads as well for that full nostalgia and "older is always better" and feels better fix! Jiss lak gran pappy to the 1000 th generation back used! Can't have any of that new fangled alloy steel nonsense! That's just cheatin' and for girly men who can't swing a manly man axe! Mastodon thigh bone and 15 lbs of sharp rock! And that's just the kindling axe!

BWAHAHAHA

anyway, good video, at least some sort of real world test

Whatever anyone swings, just be happy with it. It really doesn't matter all that much, because hand splitting is just sport after all today. It's fun exercise and we get our heat rom it as well, double win. With powered splitters down as low as 200 bucks for an electric one, no real huge need to hand split anymore. Too big for a little splitter, noodle it or move on to a better chunka wood, that's about it. We hand split because we *like it*. Heck, I'd try one of granpappys stone axes if I had one.


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## Whitespider (Dec 5, 2012)

EXCALIBER said:


> *Whitespider, now for more splitting force based on just the handle of the axe is a myth, fairytale, and a farce. The striking force will remain the same on any hammer of the same size, and shape swung at the same speed. Thats just basic physics. Energy transfer and force are two different things.*



Whatever... however ya' want to dissect the technicalities.

The fact remains that hickory absorbs/dampens rebound (recoil) and vibration better than fiberglass or steel, which equates to less "_energy transfer_" into the handle and less "_energy transfer_" into the recoil, which means more "_energy transfer_" into/onto the object being struck.
The fact remains that a steel or fiberglass handle requires you to grip tighter and swing harder to accomplish the same amount of work.
The fact remains that a steel or fiberglass handle transmits a greater amount of shock and vibration to the hands and arms.

Why do you think steel and fiberglass handled hammers have a rubber or leather grip and all hickory handled hammers have bare handles???
The answer is simple... the rubber or leather is there to dampen recoil and vibration by allowing a greater grip purchase, something not needed with a hickory handle. In fact, if you watch someone who swings a hammer for a living they will hold a hickory handle loosely, some hold it so loose that they start the swing by holding it at about midway and allow it to slide out during the swing... if ya' tried that with a steel or fiberglass handled hammer it would bounce out of your hand and go sailing across the job site.

I'm not saying steel and fiberglass don't have certain advantages, but they also have major disadvantages...
Everything is a trade-off. If I was tearing a roof off of a building, where my hammer would be used more for pulling nails and prying up boards, I'd use a steel or fiberglass handle (likely steel). But when I started laying the shingles, where my hammer would mostly be driving nails, I'd switch to a hickory handle right quick.
I made my living swinging a hammer for a few years... and I've swung more than a few sledges, mauls, axes, hatchets and ball peen hammers... a hickory handle uses less energy and is easier on the body than any other handle material... hands down. I still remember the first time I tried using a a sledge with a fiberglass handle, bought a 16#er to bust the floor out of the garage at our family lake home... I made three swings with it, and I'm sure it's still laying out in the weeds where I threw it. I thought that thing was gonna' rattle the teeth clean out'a my head... went back to town and bought one with a hickory handle.


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## Stihl310 (Dec 5, 2012)

Maybe it was the estwing hammer, but I used a wood handled hammer for 1 week when I first started framing houses. Never again, I switched to an eswting and never looked back. I'm sure the "tuning fork" design encased in rubber has something to do withit, but I found that hammer to be far more comfortable to swing all day than it's wood alternative.


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## tbow388 (Dec 5, 2012)

aarolar said:


> I bought a brand new little boys axe at tractor supply today to keep in the toolbox of the truck and for splitting up kindling. Got home and sharpened it up as it was dull as a butter knife took it out back and on the second swing the head broke off. :msp_sneaky: So I came inside and was going to sit down and write truper an email and came to find out they don't even have a english website. :msp_thumbdn: Guess I will just have to take it back to tractor supply and exchange it.
> 
> Before everybody starts recommending a fiskars x25 or 27 I am not a fan of plastic, I don't own a plastic handgun,shotgun or rifle and I would rather have a hickory or ash handle on my axe...



What about metal? I have had my Eastwing since 1987. I love it and use it all the time.


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## Justsaws (Dec 6, 2012)

If Estwing made a 36" axe that would be a great thing. When it comes to small strikers, Estwing is all I would spend my money on, wish they made a spike driver.

Picked up one of thier drilling hammers earlier this year, excellent tool.

As it is I use a 36" wood handle double bit and medium single to split. I have a fiberglass handled maul but generally just do not need it. Might pick up the Fiskers 36" if I see one.


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## RandyMac (Dec 6, 2012)

I'm pretty much a fan of traditional materials, all of my long handled woods tools have wood handles.
The exception are the small hatchets, I had a Marble's all steel hatchet, with the guard that folded into the handle. It was very well made, I kept it razor sharp as it had other uses other than splitting wood.
I lost it after venting blood-lust on an unfortunate feline, when I reclaimed it many months later, the blood had corroded it badly, I buried it. I have an Estwing now, they use a very good grade of steel, the only real wear item is the leather grip.
I have a Pulaski from my timber days, it has the same old Hickory handle on it from 1977, the tales it could tell.

Any guesses why I bent the handle?


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## Freakingstang (Dec 6, 2012)

Justsaws said:


> If Estwing made a 36" axe that would be a great thing. When it comes to small strikers, Estwing is all I would spend my money on, wish they made a spike driver.
> 
> Picked up one of thier drilling hammers earlier this year, excellent tool.
> 
> As it is I use a 36" wood handle double bit and medium single to split. I have a fiberglass handled maul but generally just do not need it. Might pick up the Fiskers 36" if I see one.




Tsc has them in their clearance section right now...


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## Kevin in Ohio (Dec 6, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Any guesses why I bent the handle?



I guess when standing on top of a cut down, big tree you'd be able to limb the sides easier.


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## RandyMac (Dec 6, 2012)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> I guess when standing on top of a cut down, big tree you'd be able to limb the sides easier.



Ahhhh...no.

That tool spent most of it's time, reaching deep into trees, chunking out blocks from undercuts.
The offset kept my knuckles from banging on the inside.


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## Whitespider (Dec 6, 2012)

Stihl310 said:


> Maybe it was the estwing hammer, but I used a wood handled hammer for 1 week when I first started framing houses. Never again, I switched to an eswting and never looked back. I'm sure the "tuning fork" design encased in rubber has something to do withit, but I found that hammer to be far more comfortable to swing all day than it's wood alternative.



Without any doubt, you’ll see the biggest diversity in hammers being used at a large construction site during the framing stage. You’ll see steel handles, fiberglass handles, wood handles, rubber grips, leather grips, longer framing hammers, shorter rip hammers, even a few claw hammers, and head weights from 16 to 24, even 30 ounces. Personally, I find the steel and fiberglass handles with rubber grips to be the least desirable… I just don’t like the “stickiness” (especially wearing gloves), and I hate the way they “hang-up” on cloth and leather hammer loops (I notice most guys with rubber grips use steel wire loops). Driving larger nails all day a guy needs to use what he swings well… and I never could swing the longer/heavier framing hammers all that well. I ended up putting the longer hickory “framing” handle (shortened by about an inch) on a standard 16 ounce smooth-faced rip hammer head… the longer handle allowed me to generate a bit more head speed. My favorite “all-a-round” nail hammer is the 13 ounce, hickory-handled, claw hammer carrying the “Plumb” brand name.

Estwing make a quality tool… but I never cared for any of those rubber or leather grip steel-handled hammers, the balance just feels “off” to me. I do have a hickory-handled, 7 ounce, Estwing finishing hammer that I like real well. I have one “special purpose” leather grip, steel handled Estwing hatchet I use around the splitter for cutting the strings of elm and such… “special purpose” because it also gets used as a short pry bar around the splitter (hence the steel handle).


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## lone wolf (Dec 6, 2012)

MotorSeven said:


> aarolar, I hate to be the one to point this out...but the forensic evidence is stacked in favor of the MFG. There are (4) distinct strike damage(dents) in the handle way below where the head was attached.....your aim sucks. Sorry, but you are the guy that non-breakable "plastic" handles were specifically made for
> 
> I can cast this stone because I own several "plastic" handled tools for the very same reason
> 
> ...



You nailed it that is what I suspected but your eyes are better than mine!


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## smokee (Dec 6, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> You nailed it that is what I suspected but your eyes are better than mine!



The OP says he did this beating the head out of the wood AFTER it broke.


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## kmcinms (Dec 6, 2012)

*I like wood in my wifes hand better*

I started splitting wood with an all steel 12lb. maul in '91. Just recenetly got an 8 lb. splitting maul a few years ago and was a lot better with it as far as aim and precision goes. That said, my all steel 12 pounder handle has been _*mauled*_ from over swings, mainly from being tired after swinging it for a few hours. Absolutely no control with that big ole rubber sleeve on that big ole nasty steel POS. I imagine I may have gone through a few wooden handles in the 20+ years I've swung that steel handled splitter if I couldn't control it any better. I hardly ever look at that sum##### any more, and may even pluck up $40 to buy a Fiskars one day. Glad you got a new axe.


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## zogger (Dec 6, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> Whatever... however ya' want to dissect the technicalities.
> 
> The fact remains that hickory absorbs/dampens rebound (recoil) and vibration better than fiberglass or steel, which equates to less "_energy transfer_" into the handle and less "_energy transfer_" into the recoil, which means more "_energy transfer_" into/onto the object being struck.
> The fact remains that a steel or fiberglass handle requires you to grip tighter and swing harder to accomplish the same amount of work.
> ...



Nope, still disagree, there ya go with "feels" again. Subjective, non quantifiable without some reproducable standardized numbers to look at. How many test "feels" to a lb of head weight or whatever, and transferred momentum and so on. Let's see some numbers to prove your "feel" claims. Oh, BTW, there are numerous different types of synthetic handle material out there, they are not the same, so we'll have to get specific on exact brands and models and so on. and my anecdotal is the opposite of yours, on "feel". I prefer steel or synthetic. so, anecedotal versus anecdotal is a wash here.

With that said, there are numbers out there using testing machines, stanley, plumb, etc, with using actual testing machines and more modern designs, claim their multiple steel and composite hammers, for instance, are better overall than the pure wooden handled. They transfer more energy, with less felt shock, and are much more durable, the combination of factors they have to always look at. it can't be just one or the other, they have to look at all o the above. They look at the pros and cons and that's what they have come up with, for an overall better design. They build the dang things, and have plenty of engineers to throw at this subject, for decades. Their best efforts today you can buy are steel combined with composite, fiberglass or graphite, with specific antivibrational internal designs. Antivibe hammers. Those are their premium designs they make that makes them the premium bucks. 

They are well aware of wood handles..wood is their bottom level tool handle material, if used at all, by the various manufacturers. Fiskars could use wood, I think they are aware of this "wood" stuff..yet they don't. I know some of the other guys do, and charge a lot..ain't seeing test results yet, nor used one, so can't comment there, but I am *doubtful* they out perform. I did like that baileys/fiskars test video though...

Not saying hickory (or some other woods) isn't a good handle material, it is, it most certainly can work plenty good enough, it just isn't top of the line anymore. That was then, this is now. Wood is inexpensive and easier to procure and machine, that's it for advantages. It doesn't transfer energy the best, it doesn't offer the most durability, it's not the lightest, and it doesn't reduce felt vibrations as well as the newer designs. That's the real "hands down". You have to look at all the various factors involved, because the tool works as a gestalt of the sub components and design. Wood is perfectly fine, no problems anyone wants to use wood, but real world engineering, proven by the various tool makers, shows that their evolved designs just work better overall, all factors taken into consideration. 

if anyone--just talking generally now, addressed to no one in particlar, anyone "you" in other words, can prove otherwise, actually "prove" it, not hand waving on the internets and talking louder, but *prove* it, (you can get published after all in the various science and engineering rags..have to make it through peer review first so get your ducks in a row with your "feel" numbers), I bet those big companies making stuff like hammers would be willing to listen, and if you could change their minds with data, that wood is always better overall to use as a handle, and steel and fiberglass and graphite fiber are just a waste of time and offer no serious advantages, well, you could get *steenking freekin* rich. Companies love to cut expenses, they could lay off all their engineers and just use cheaper wood for all their handles all the time. Yep, you can still buy wood handled anything..that proves nothing other than products are made at various quality and price point levels, and people will sometimes actually pay some for nostalgia purposes as well.

I grew up as an archer. I was shooting a lot before I ever could ride a bicycle. I started with a straight (lemonwood) longbow. then went to a straight fiberglass..hmm, somewhat better. Noticeable. Then fiberglass and fiberglass/wood laminate recurves..hmm..better still..then a first generation fiberglass compound..flat shooting, nice. 

Stopped there, ain't shot much since, decades ago, lost interest after one zillion arrows (which also evolved from pure wood -cedar) to aluminum and fiberglass (never owned graphite) but was an active competitor locally and did exhibition/trick shooting for some years running at the county fair, which as far as I went with that sport. The point is, the gear kept getting better as the smart guys threw skull sweat at it.

You just ain't seeing straight wooden bows, made by anyone, winning much competition..nope. They can still be plenty good enough, and beautiful, and feel good in the hands, and bring home the game, can be all hand made at home with just a little sweat and care and wood you harvest yourself, etc..but..they just don't perform the same as more modern designs combined with more modern materials.

I'm not gonna turn down a cheap used good quality wooden handled tool, snagged at a yard sale, etc., of any kind, definitely worth picking up a decent old widget for two bucks, whatever, but I am not going to be paying full price on any new ones unless they have full modern materials and design science incorporated into the ..whatever I am buying.


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## Whitespider (Dec 6, 2012)

zogger said:


> *Nope, still disagree, there ya go with "feels" again. Subjective, non quantifiable without some reproducable standardized numbers to look at. How many test "feels" to a lb of head weight or whatever, and transferred momentum and so on. Let's see some numbers to prove your "feel" claims. Oh, BTW, there are numerous different types of synthetic handle material out there, they are not the same...*



I'm not talking about feel... I'm talking fact... it's all about the physical properties of the handle material. 
I'm not gonna' look for "numbers" (I have seen the rebound percentages... somewhere?) just to win a disagreement with you... I really don't care that much what anybody uses, I was just offering some facts for people to consider.
And no, there are not "numerous different types of synthetic handle material out there"... there is three basic choices, wood, steel and fiberglass composite. Changing the "composite" of fiberglass does little in the way of changing "shock" absorption, it's more about strength vs. weight. Other materials are either incompatible with striking tool shock and stress, or way too expensive to adapt, mold or fit.

But let's have a look at what Seymore Manufacturing has to say (the makers of Link Handles, wood and fiberglass)… Seymore is the largest striking tool handle maker in the U.S.



> _Tool handles can be made from a variety of *hardwoods* as well as *fiberglass* and *steel*. Each material has certain advantages and disadvantages for replacement handles.
> 
> *The best replacement handles are made from American hickory and American ash because of their strength, elasticity, and ability to absorb shock*. Hardwood handles do not conduct electricity.
> 
> ...



If you’d like to read the whole page… here’s the link to it..

Seymour Manufacturing Co. - LINK Replacement Handles


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## Justsaws (Dec 6, 2012)

For those of you that are breaking long wood handled striking tools:

If you were to take a sheet of copper and wrap the handle end as snug as as possible by hand with the copper strip over lapping like a paper roll at least 4 times it will create a dead blow effect on that area of the hammer handle when impacted. After wrapping snug it in place with you favorite type of tape. The more wraps the better the effect.

Copper flashing will work with as many wraps as you can get. Aluminum flashing will work as well, does not hold up as well. If you are old school then pour some lead sheet and cover it with a round of copper, that actually works the best but people get a little nuts about lead these days.


The rubber protectors work well but can lead to bounce injuries especially when used on a long handled striker that is too short for the user. I do not use wire as I have seen the wire cut into the wood handle.


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## lone wolf (Dec 6, 2012)

smokee said:


> The OP says he did this beating the head out of the wood AFTER it broke.



A miss is a miss by any other name.


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## aarolar (Dec 6, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> A miss is a miss by any other name.



I didn't miss Mr. I hit exactly what I was aiming at all three swings...


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## lone wolf (Dec 6, 2012)

aarolar said:


> I didn't miss Mr. I hit exactly what I was aiming at all three swings...



Why the dents in the handle ?:msp_thumbup::msp_confused:


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## aarolar (Dec 6, 2012)

aarolar said:


> That is where I used what was left of the handle to beat the head out of the piece of wood it was buried halfway into. You should really not be so quick to assume such because you just made an ass of yourself...
> 
> We have burned wood for 15 years now and I just got a hydraulic splitter this year I have split MANY a cord of wood with a wood handle axe and maul and I will admit I do miss but not very often. I can put the axe in the same hole pretty much every swing of the head...



Just a refresher I know its been a couple days and many posts since it was covered.


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## Gologit (Dec 6, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> Why the dents in the handle ?:msp_thumbup::msp_confused:



LW...this has already been settled. Read the whole thread and you'll see. Thanks.


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## elmoleaf (Dec 6, 2012)

I'm with Zogger on this one. I'll take data any day over a link to one company's marketing material (given how many more wood handle models they offer than fiberglass, perhaps their volume and profit comes from wood and fiberglass is just offered to appease some customers..thus they push the value of wood?).

A drawback of wood perhaps not mentioned yet: it often contains hidden defects and inconsistent grain....it can have unpredictable performance from one piece to the next. At least in the structural world, that's one reason why many wood members now being used are "engineered" lumber versus sawn lumber (aside from weight, cost, sawn availability etc.). The "engineered" material gives predictable repeatable performance.

For me, I use my wood handled tools (sledge hammer, axe) relatively seldom, so high performance isn't critical. If my livelihood depending on using such a tool all day however, I'd be looking for a commercial grade high performance version...so probably something synthetic for the handle. However, most of my tools are salvaged reclamation projects...yardsale, found with metal detector, etc.(rake, hatchet, mattock, etc). I just make wood handles for those. If they break, I just make another.


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## milkman (Dec 6, 2012)

Everybody knows that you're not supposed to hit an anvil with a hammer, keep it up and all our new anvils will have safety stickers all over them, just like ladders.


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## Justsaws (Dec 6, 2012)

milkman said:


> Everybody knows that you're not supposed to hit an anvil with a hammer, keep it up and all our new anvils will have safety stickers all over them, just like ladders.



They already have warning stickers for awhile now, and HUGE price tags to match.


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## Whitespider (Dec 6, 2012)

milkman said:


> Everybody knows that you're not supposed to hit an anvil with a hammer...



Really?? But it's OK to lay a third piece of steel on the anvil and strike it with a hammer??


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## milkman (Dec 6, 2012)

Yep, the first rule in CARE and MAINTENANCE of a NEW or OLD ANVIL
1. It is not prudent to hit the face of an anvil directly with a hammer. This is particularly important regarding anvil edges and the tips of horns. The goal is to keep hot iron between the anvil and your hammer.


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## mountainmandan (Dec 6, 2012)

I just want to say I have had terrible luck getting a decent wood handle cheap, and since I am cheap, I have made handles for my maul, framing hammer, finish hammer, and rigging ax. I like doing it and it is the only way I am going to get one cheap. I use my fiskers a lot too. But also enjoy swinging a quality wood handle. I can not tell you in rational words, it might just be in my head.

Dan


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## Whitespider (Dec 6, 2012)

mountainmandan said:


> *I just want to say I have had terrible luck getting a decent wood handle cheap...*


LOL
The most expensive tool you'll ever buy is a cheap tool... and that includes the tool handle.

You are correct, a _decent_ hickory handle does not come cheap.


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## mountainmandan (Dec 6, 2012)

Getting good tools, cheap, almost never happens, but I do have some good tools that I did not spend much on, so it is possible. 

Dan


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## Whitespider (Dec 6, 2012)

elmoleaf said:


> *I'm with Zogger on this one. I'll take data any day over a link to one company's marketing material...
> If my livelihood depending on using such a tool all day however, I'd be looking for a commercial grade high performance version...so probably something synthetic for the handle.*



OK... so where is this "data" you need supporting your choice of a synthetic handle??
Where is this "data" you need supporting your belief that a "_commercial grade high performance version_" means a synthetic handle??

So what you’re saying is, without “data” the synthetic has to be the better choice?? Why??
Why do you need “data” to believe one is a better choice, but you don’t need “data” for the other??
That’s sort’a hypocritical… don’t ya’ think?? 

If you need data why not do your own tests… like I said in and earlier post…
Take three 16 oz hammers, one with a steel handle, one with a synthetic handle, one with a hickory handle and strike an anvil with them. Try to keep grip tension and swinging force as close to the same as possible for all three, and see which bounces higher off the anvil. The hammer with the hickory handle will bounce dramatically less. The more bounce, the more energy transferred into recoil and handle vibration… the more energy transferred into recoil and vibration, the less energy applied to the object being struck. To overcome this disadvantage with steel and synthetic you must grip tighter and swing harder. Using a hickory handle, if all else remains equal, you will expend less energy to accomplish the same amount of work.

And if you want to verify which handle transfers energy more efficiently… lay a 2x4 on edge, on a concrete floor and strike the end with all three hammers. Again, try to keep grip tension and swinging force as close to the same as possible for all three, and see which moves the board the farthest across the floor. Even better, if you have it, strike something like a 20# lead weight across the floor.

Another test would be to make a teeter-totter with a board and place a baseball on one end… strike the other end with all three hammers. Once again, try to keep grip tension and swinging force as close to the same as possible for all three, and see which sends the baseball higher into the air.

I do believe those tests will be a real eye-opener for you.


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## old cookie (Dec 7, 2012)

I got a sledgehammer I have had sence 1980 or so.Well i am cutting wood on my bosses place, his two grandsons come down and want to help.They want to split wood. I say no that is ok i will get it.No thet got to help,he grabs my hammer and wedges, 3 peaces later he misses wedge brakes handle.I had never put a handle in it,the head is all mushroomed .It now has a new handle in it, but it just aint the same.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 7, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> OK... so where is this "data" you need supporting your choice of a synthetic handle??
> Where is this "data" you need supporting your belief that a "_commercial grade high performance version_" means a synthetic handle??
> 
> So what you’re saying is, without “data” the synthetic has to be the better choice?? Why??
> ...


All right guys, enough already! Spidey has obviously has done his homework. I doubt any of the rest of ya'll have spent much time testing tool handles in YOUR basement!?! 

On a side note, that last test sounds like the ole ring-the-bell game at the carnival. My brother can ring it every hit, heck, usually, after the first day, when has has already gotten stuffies for all the nieces, they won't let him play anymore! Now me, they like taking my money, bro has tried to tell me the "trick," still doesn't work. Oh well :msp_rolleyes:
Come to think of it, don't their big hammers usually have wood handles?


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## GrassGuerilla (Dec 7, 2012)

I can hardly believe I read this whole thread... To each his own eh? I've found cheap wood handles (hickory or ash) aren't remotely equal. Often you'll go through several handles to find a "good" one. Some that look "good" break quite easily. Once you have a good one, Hickory seems to just "feel" better. I'm not claiming better energy transfer, actually to me it's probably more about a perceived lesser impact shock. Truth be told, I'm pretty sure most could benefit more from technique improvement rather than relatively small gains from better handles.

I tried this test some time back after picking up a Ridgid brand anti vibe hammer. Initially using it, it seemed ineffective compared to my old Hickory handled hammer. Holding the hammers in each hand smack them together (wearing safety glasses) I compared a whole bucket of hammers. Between the Ridgid anti vibe, a rubber coated steel Craftsman, a fiberglass Craftsman, an Estwing and an old Hickory handle. The clear winner (on terms of reduced impact and shock) was clearly the Hickory. And it wasn't even close. I was a little surprised that it beat out the modern anti-vibe design. 

No need to tell me you should never hit two hammers together. Simplest way of directly comparing their properties.


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