# New to this, Please Critique my Gear,



## r0ck1r0ck2 (Jul 31, 2013)

here's a long list for your consideration..
thanks in advance..

Petzl Helmet.
Petzl Avao Saddle

15' wirecore flipline
10' positioning lanyard (hyvee rockgrab)
150' Vortex Cool climbing line
125' Poison Ivy

36" Aluminium Friction Saver.
12oz and 16oz weights
two 180' throwline hanks.

Hitch Climber and 2 Oval biners 
Micro Pulley and two petzl biners.
30" beeline eye2eye
24" beeline eye2eye
CMI Foot Ascender
a sherriltree "magic" single eye tail for footlocking.

Samurai HandSaw

and for rigging i've gone with the basic lowering kit from treestuff and 150' of husky bull rope (5/8")
portawrap, 3/4" pulley, a tenex loopie and a tenex eye sling.

i've just ordered a rigging pinto spliced into a loopie as well as a chainsaw lanyard and caritool

after a few months of study and practice my concerns mostly concern my friction cord, 
could you please suggest something that will play nice with my setup?

and of course i've got a lot to learn about tree care and climbing
to which this site has been a great resource.

much love, 
here's a lee perry jam


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## Gologit (Jul 31, 2013)

I'll move this to Arb 101. You'll probably get more answers there.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 1, 2013)

Only thing really missing is an srtmsetup, looks like a good kit. What are you're concerns with your beeline? Jeff


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## imagineero (Aug 1, 2013)

You haven't said anything about your experience, or the sort of work you are doing, if any. Gear needs to match experience and work. If you're doing mostly fine pruning in broad spreading trees then you're going to need different gear from doing daily removals in tall conifers. If you're just starting out it's good to stick with basics. As you get more experience its nice to start adding things according to your work and taste. 

A buddy of mine who's a great photographer gave ma some advice one day about getting a camera. I was looking at an SLR, few lenses, flash, tripod etc.... He told me to just get one camera, and one non zoom fixed length lense. I started out asking him about what if I needed blah blah for a certain situation or whatever, but he said to me "well, if you've only got one lense, you're guaranteed it'll be the right one for the job". I had to think about it, but he was right pretty much

You can spend all your time fussing with gear, or you can spend all your time climbing. The more time you've got with a single setup, the better you'll be at using it to its fullest capabilities. I have a background of doing a lot of technical rope work (rock climbing, caving, rescue, industrial access, complex rigging) where having the right gear is critical, but when it comes to tree climbing I honestly believe that there isn't a massive difference between setups in the hands of a skilled user. I've seen plenty of guys on a split tail with a blakes that climb incredibly well, and plenty of guys with the latest greatest that couldn't climb a ladder. 

If you're new I'd say forget the frictionsaver and eye to eyes, use one rope type only (poison ivy is good) stick with a single lanyard (don't need a wire core and a positioning lanyard), and just use a single basic hitch on 8mm beeline. Try a klemheist, it's predictable and tunable. Go climb your ass off, get good on the throw lines or get a big shot. Once you've racked up, say, 100 full days of climbing, you'll be ready for something else. Climbing isn't even the main dish in tree work, it's just a way of getting round the tree. It needs to be completely second nature and automatic so you can give your full attention to rigging, saw handling, making good cuts, planning the job and deciding what needs to be done to the tree you're in. If you're thoughts are on your gear or you're fussing with it, then you're mind isn't fully on the job.

Shaun


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Aug 1, 2013)

well thank you very much for the replies.

here's a black sabbath album

i've tried to put together a kit that will be a bit future proof.

guess my issues thus far have come with the spurs which i've only been able to use once.
i spend a lot of my practice time in public parks and wouldn't dream of spiking into those trees.
same goes for the friction saver. i won't get close to damaging a tree for my ego's sake.

on the whole the spurs were easy to get used to but as i got down to the final branch in the crown, the wind picked up and made for a bit more wobble than i would like.

my issue with the friction cord has been with setting the VT during ascent and the Distel being too grabby and binding up.
guess i'm concerned that i'm burning up the beeline rather quickly.

i've also had fun trying to limbwalk. i'm getting better at this but it has been rough going.


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## joezilla11 (Aug 2, 2013)

That's alot of money on gear that you don't even know if you need. Why not save a few bucks and start with just one e2e, or get an adjustable ring friction saver and get some more multi use out of it. Sounds like your preping to go out on your own? I'm just curious. If your not sure about the beeline why not just get one and see how u like it? As time goes on that list will keep getting longer and longer


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## isaacvent (Aug 2, 2013)

r0ck1r0ck2 said:


> here's a long list for your consideration..
> thanks in advance..
> 
> Petzl Helmet.
> ...



This is a fair start but a bit of context would be nice, pruning or removals mainly? In the short term, I would add a couple things. A few loop runners, big shot, fiberglass pole saw, maasdam power puller is a must, spurs, extra 3/4" block, steel carabiner or 2 for rigging.I use both wire core and rope lanyards, but my wire cores are only 10 or 12 and my rope ones are longer, up to 24'. You may also consider a longer friction saver, I think mine is 60" maybe? 3' may be too short in some situations.


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 3, 2013)

How about some books on pruning?


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 3, 2013)

imagineero said:


> You haven't said anything about your experience, or the sort of work you are doing, if any. Gear needs to match experience and work. If you're doing mostly fine pruning in broad spreading trees then you're going to need different gear from doing daily removals in tall conifers. If you're just starting out it's good to stick with basics. As you get more experience its nice to start adding things according to your work and taste.
> 
> A buddy of mine who's a great photographer gave ma some advice one day about getting a camera. I was looking at an SLR, few lenses, flash, tripod etc.... He told me to just get one camera, and one non zoom fixed length lense. I started out asking him about what if I needed blah blah for a certain situation or whatever, but he said to me "well, if you've only got one lense, you're guaranteed it'll be the right one for the job". I had to think about it, but he was right pretty much
> 
> ...



Awesome post


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Aug 3, 2013)

1st off 
thank you all

that was a lot of money on gear but i got the 201t yesterday so it's over now
i chose this setup by doing a lot of reading on sites and talked/observed as many climbers as i could.

i've been landscaping quite a lot and making good money so i put it into climbing gear while i could afford it.
i'm pretty motivated to get off the ground

believe me when i say i'm familiar with fussing getting in the way of work. 
i didn't want to spend time fussing on gear so the gear i grabbed was meant to work over the next year as i learn.

it has preformed admirably during the 30 or so climbs i've made thus far.
2 removals (box elder and birtch) and 5 prunings (birtch and pine) and quite a lot of practicing in various trees.
a lot of big oaks with long limbs and spreading crowns.

i grabbed the poison ivy with a tight eye because i'm using a hitchclimber and had a few annoying issues with the anchor knot interfering with the friction cord. as it stands i like the vortex (less stretch, better grip in my hands) a whole lot more than the ivy but they are both nice to use.

instead of the maasdam power puller i've used my bullrope and pulleys thus far. 
and i got my pinto rig pulley tenex loopie from treestuff yesterday.

i do have a few steel biners and a few more climbing biners as well..
as well as 5 loop runners

i think an adjustable frictionsaver is in my future but the 36incher has worked in every tree i've been in thus far.


i would love some books on pruning and i'm open to suggestions

right now i've got a copy of

the tree climbers companion and the art and science of practical rigging
i'm getting a copy of the Arborists' Certification Study Guide this week.

the rest of my reading has been on the web thus far.

thanks in advance for your help.


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## Lil Red (Aug 3, 2013)

r0ck1r0ck2 said:


> 1st off
> thank you all
> 
> that was a lot of money on gear but i got the 201t yesterday so it's over now
> ...



It might be a little safer and smarter in the long run to go work for a tree company for a little while. Yes anyone can climb around in a tree and cut limbs but are you doing the safest and most effective way? This is where learning from others who have done it a while will help you and make the learning curve easier and safer. Or maybe you have already gotten to first base 

Oh just don't damage any gear now or hopefully you have some more cash to replace it


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Aug 3, 2013)

aye, the plan was to make money doing landscaping on my own and then get a job with a quality crew once i had gotten my climbing/rigging gear sorted out..

anyone can be a hack and i don't want any part of it.

at this point i'm prepared to take a cut in wages to learn the trade properly.

so please, any other book suggestions?

any recommendations for eye2eye friction cord to go with 11.7mm poison ivy and 12.7mm vortex?
something to compliment the beeline.?

thanks all.


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 4, 2013)

Books- any of the Best Practices books. Modern Arboriculture-Shigo, New Tree Biology-Shigo, Arboriculture-Harris, Intro to plant biology-Stern. 
Those are just few of the favorites, but there are many. Go to the ISA book store, find the ones you want then buy them from Amazon for a 10th of the price. 
Speaking of which, I need some new ones!


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Aug 4, 2013)

absolutely great!

that's exactly what i was looking for.

amazon already has the 
isa cert book on a wish list as well as 
"a new tree biology" by shigo 
Manual of Woody Landscape Plants: Their Identification​, Ornamental Characteristic​s, Culture, Propogation and Uses by Derr
and 
"To Fell a Tree"


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## Lil Red (Aug 4, 2013)

r0ck1r0ck2 said:


> aye, the plan was to make money doing landscaping on my own and then get a job with a quality crew once i had gotten my climbing/rigging gear sorted out..
> 
> anyone can be a hack and i don't want any part of it.
> 
> ...



Friction cords are really dependent on you. I have the poison ivy and have run the ocean 13mm (I think, and still currently use) and have used Beeline. I like I the ocean for two reason so far, 1; it doesn't seem to break down and wear out as fast, also 2; it doesn't seem to bind up so much when you descend a lot. But that is just me.


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Aug 5, 2013)

wait..
the ivy is 11.7mm?
you mean the ocean 10mm?

is the ocean 10mm going to be too fat?

would the 8mm be a better choice?

still and all i have been wanting to try out different friction cords..
thanks for the heads up.


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## Ottawatree (Aug 5, 2013)

I think your climbing ropes are too short and you should pick up a 1/2" rigging line. Your going to be taking small pieces in the learning stage and I find 5/8" line will lock up too easy in the portawrap.


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Aug 5, 2013)

well i haven't really been up a tree higher than 60' yet so the ropes been fine for that.

as to the rigging line, 
i've used it a few times and it does want to lock up if i've got more than 2 wraps but it honestly seems to be great thus far.

i used it to stand up a few leaners last week and it worked like a charm..

still a 1/2'' rigging line is probably a really good idea.

oh i should mention that in removing a boxelder i used the spider leg balancer to great effect..
nice bit of simple kit there..


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## Lil Red (Aug 5, 2013)

maybe I meant 10mm. Never had to use up more than 60' of your rope huh, another tip that helped me get faster and more comfortable maneuvering around the tree was little recreational tree climbing  We played follow the leader in the tree, fun game.


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Aug 5, 2013)

oh, no, i've been in a tree 60foot high, 120' divided by two meant i was at end of the poison ivy on the ground.

i've gotta say, 
follow the leader sounds like a good time.


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## Hoowasat (Nov 24, 2013)

r0ck2r0ck2 - How well are you liking the Petzl Avao saddle? I've been looking at that saddle, and Bailey's has a good price on them today, but this is the only thread I found on AS which mentions the Avao. Do you have any major dislikes with it? Thanks in advance!


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## derwoodii (Nov 25, 2013)

Git yourself a nice extendable pole saw 4 -5 meter/yards so very handy can sort many a lower limbs or that tip top twig or save a you limb walk climb and can rescue that hooked throw bag just outta reach 

ta the black sabbath clip heres some more Ozzy going off,,,, oh ops some cuzzin at the vids end


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## Mr. Woods (Nov 26, 2013)

Set aside some money for a hands on class. I'm in Canada so I've gone to arbor canada courses. Find something close to you. A two or three day class can be paid for in a good days work. Last class I went to paid for itself in no time. With experience comes confidence.


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Nov 26, 2013)

thanks for the replies.
i'll try to be brief.

the longest day i spent in the avao was my 1st removal and was about 5 hours of harness time.

i think there are better saddles than the avao and if i had it to do over i probably would've popped for something a bit more pricey.

the avao is good with spurs and a flipline but for the spread out deciduous trees i've been in i think a progressive bridge would be a bit better. 
i was getting my hips crushed by the lanyard carabiners so i switched to dyneema loops and that seemed to solve the issue.

i like the many attachment points. i like the weight. it holds my chainsaw well. 
i would like to climb in a treemotion for a day to see how much of a difference $250 would make.


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Nov 27, 2013)

as for the later replies.
a pole saw is definitely on my list of gear when the spring comes again to the northern tundra.
i'm looking at the wood poles as they are light as s#|+

i've been working with 3 different crews and have been trying to practice as much as weather will allow. 
i'm learning a lot and am trying my best to keep my place and not get hubristic. 
it's hard as i really love being in the trees and spend soo much time studying that i'm dying to test out my knowledge.
my girlfriend seems genuinely interested in all of it.. i showed her 5 friction hitches last week.
i tried my best to explain rigging forces, to explain tree biology as i understand it.

a very patient woman.

the climbers i have been working with appreciate my hustle and have been taking me to school when they can.

i'm still hoping to get a class in when i can afford the time and money.

thanks again.


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## r0ck1r0ck2 (Nov 27, 2013)

and i should mention.


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