# CCW while firewooding?



## shelbythedog (Aug 19, 2011)

I like to carry a pistol as much as possible, both to express my rights as well as protect myself, my property, and those around me. Certainly dragging around a few thousand dollars worth of saws, splitter, firewood, etc., after a long day of harvesting my most beloved natural resource would be a time I would like to have my pistol on my person. I think most would agree that having your gun in the truck is better than at home in the safe, but there is no better place than on your body, ready to draw, if necessary. If I were selling and delivering firewood you can bet I would be carrying since most transactions deal in cash and are with unknowns. What say you members of AS, anyone else feel the need to be strapped when firewooding?


----------



## TonyK (Aug 19, 2011)

Dang you got some mean trees in Michigan! :msp_w00t: Seriously only during hunting season we get lots of clowns that can't read around here.


----------



## Somesawguy (Aug 19, 2011)

I usually carry something even if it's my little P32. I usually cut on my parents property, so I'm more worried about coyotes or a rabid animal than hunters and other 2 legged vermin.

I can completely understand carrying, you have valuable equipment with you, and you may be by yourself.


----------



## Hedgerow (Aug 19, 2011)

Keep one in the truck... Rifle though... Since most of the targets of opportunity around here have four legs and tend to stay off a ways... :msp_biggrin: I'm glad you pack though. An armed society is a polite society...


----------



## zogger (Aug 19, 2011)

*what you said*



Somesawguy said:


> I usually carry something even if it's my little P32. I usually cut on my parents property, so I'm more worried about coyotes or a rabid animal than hunters and other 2 legged vermin.
> 
> I can completely understand carrying, you have valuable equipment with you, and you may be by yourself.


 

I carry because of nasty varmints that might show up. Been attacked here by a pack of wild pitbulls before. Boy was that fun...not. They were totally different from all the other dogs dumped off out here, those guys were highly aggressive. Surprised sneak thieves a coupla times lurking around getting ready to steal something, I ran them off. You never know. We get poachers, too, biggest problem there for me is they cut fences or leave the gates open, both have happened more than once. Then the cows get out, and I get a call in the middle of the night they are out in the street ot over eating some lady's flowers someplace..that is no fun either. . So far no rustlers but I would bet that is coming, boss said it happened to him before here. Basically like the poachers after deer, they'll pop one and snag off the hams and sirloins off the back, leave the rest.

As the economy worsens these problems will get more intense, either in the country or in town, and in town I have stopped one car jacking, and another time some burglar climbed in the second story window and I woke up and here is this junkie creep in the living room...stuff happens. Oh heck, then I got trapped downtown atlanta in the middle of the rodney king riots..if I wasn't for my two close personal friends, mr smith and mr wesson, this boy would most likely not be here today...

People just drive out in the country and dump their animals, so some can turn into problems or it they pack up they all can get squirrely, and other people get more desperate and decide what is yours needs to be theirs.

Ya, it can get awkward carrying, but better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it, real handy like on your person.


----------



## barton174 (Aug 19, 2011)

I carry my XD45C 4" in a MTAC IWB holster pretty much any time I'm not at work... Yep, I carry it always while in the woods, mostly for unfriendly/rabid varmints; but we've had some folks who, conveniently, "think they're still on state land, and didn't see all the fence posts with orange ribbons on them" when there's ginseng and mushrooms (or animals to poach) on the property... Some of them can get a little pushy if you run into them, and the first rule of gun-fighting is: Have a gun. (or 2)

As stated, I always have my .45 (or 9mm, or .357) on my person, but when I'm out on the farm doing rounds or checking trails or whatever, there's usually a rifle of some sort in my vehicle or slung on my back... 

Mike


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 19, 2011)

I always carry where I cut my firewood. It's 100 miles from home, the drug culture has taken over the area and we are not out there often enough to be a visible presence. If it's not bolted down they steal it, if it's bolted down they destroy it out of spite. You also have no idea what you are going to walk up on! I've walked up to the pond and had a couple skinny dipping, I ran across a guy running dogs chasing deer, without permission to be there. I've ran across groups of people walking around looking for a mythical cave that is supposed to be in the area. I'm fearful one day I will walk up on someones grow operation one day! I don't set foot on the place without a firearm.
So yeah, rifle in the truck, 10mm on the hip!


----------



## WidowMaker (Aug 19, 2011)

I do...


----------



## runandjump (Aug 19, 2011)

What's the old saying......... Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!


----------



## fields_mj (Aug 19, 2011)

Yes, I keep a 1911 in a Fobus paddle holster on my hip, even when cutting. Normally I carry condition 1 (cocked and locked) but when cutting, I carry condition 2 (hammer down) in order to keep any wood chips from getting between the hammer and firing pin where they could cause problems. I figure that if I need it, I will have time to get it and manuplate the hammer. If not, then I'll use the saw that's in my hands...


----------



## Cliniford (Aug 19, 2011)

Kimber Pro Carry II 1911 Always in the truck nearby when cutting but never worn when cutting.


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 19, 2011)

My XD 45 ctac is always with me....IWB in summer, OWB under my coat in winter


----------



## shelbythedog (Aug 19, 2011)

BTW, my options include...







Typically, I carry a .380 in my front pocket, but that doesn't lend itself to easy access when wearing chaps. This fall my plan for firewooding and outdoor activities is to carry the SP2022 OWB or the Colt OWB.


----------



## Guido Salvage (Aug 19, 2011)

I have enough trouble protecting myself from a chainsaw, I can't imagine why might happen to me with a gun strapped to my body.


----------



## BMAVERICK (Aug 19, 2011)

Always! 605 taurus in a bianchi owb. 
Wear it when i dirtbike too. Poor little snubby is beat to hell, but still goes bang whenever my boogerhook hits the bidness stick.


----------



## TreePointer (Aug 19, 2011)

Sometimes I'll have a long gun on the tractor, but this is the first year I'm seriously considering a handgun while cutting.


----------



## BMAVERICK (Aug 19, 2011)

I carry all the time, of course, in AZ that is the norm rather than the unusual. Carry whenever you are dressed, and you get used to it being there just like that fat wallet in your back pocket and the knife in your front. After a while, you don't notice it's there, but you sure notice when it isn't there.


----------



## ratso (Aug 19, 2011)

I have a male german shepherd he was imported from Germany. No one gets nearme or my equipment without his permission.


----------



## BMAVERICK (Aug 19, 2011)

ratso said:


> I have a male german shepherd he was imported from Germany. No one gets nearme or my equipment without his permission.


 
Yeah, but he's kinda hard to ccw, right!


----------



## PA. Woodsman (Aug 19, 2011)

I understand what you are saying, but no I don't carry a gun while cutting wood-I don't even own a gun. I've found that not too many people or animals unless they are wild or rabid tend to mess with a guy with a chainsaw! :biggrin:


----------



## ponyexpress976 (Aug 19, 2011)

That reminds me...carry permit is about to expire and i want it renewed before the feds try and slip in any more regs making a state issue harder to comply with.


----------



## zogger (Aug 19, 2011)

*Valid*



PA. Woodsman said:


> I understand what you are saying, but no I don't carry a gun while cutting wood-I don't even own a gun. I've found that not too many people or animals unless they are wild or rabid tend to mess with a guy with a chainsaw! :biggrin:



That's actually quite a valid point. Not a lot of range with a chainsaw*, but not too shabby for close quarters "work" I would imagine....never tried it, but I sure see where you are coming from. 

* yes I know, for anyone who might want to clue me in, there is a violence slasher cartoon rocket launched chainsaw comic out there that's been posted on this site...not a fan of that....genre...of entertainment.

I am pro self defense obviously, and *legitimate* national defense..but not much else when it comes to violence like that, real or cartoon.


----------



## Dogsout (Aug 19, 2011)

Cutting firewood in and of itself is dangerous enough let alone having to strap a gun to your hip. If you HAVE to cut in an area that you need to carry to protect your equipment or your person I would seriously suggest finding a new place to cut wood or just hang it up all together. But hey what do I know I live in an area that it would never cross my mind to carry a gun while I am cutting wood. And to be quite honest we all know that if they REALLY want it they will get it one way or another gun or no gun. this does not jive with most of the comments on this thread but it is just MHO!


----------



## outdoorsman0490 (Aug 19, 2011)

I usually keep my .38 S&W, but that is due to the fact I have had a coyote walk past me at 30 yards at 11:00 in the afternoon while I had the splitter running, better to be prepared.


----------



## shelbythedog (Aug 19, 2011)

Dogsout said:


> And to be quite honest we all know that if they REALLY want it they will get it one way or another gun or no gun.



I agree 100% that the best protection is to be aware of your surroundings and take precaution when venturing into unknown areas. I will add that there is little to no danger when carrying a pistol if it is done with a proper holster and clothing. Improper carry methods make it unsafe, not having a chainsaw in your hands while doing so.


----------



## Guido Salvage (Aug 19, 2011)

I have never given thought to owning a pistol, much less carrying one while I was cutting wood. Perhaps I have lived a sheltered life, but the coming Armageddon everyone everyone seems to be preparing for seems to have bypassed me. If you are worried about being jumped/robbed/attacked/shot while cutting, you are probably working in the wrong area.

Go ahead, fire away.... :msp_confused:


----------



## LAH (Aug 19, 2011)

I always have a firearm near & at times on my person be it making firewood or anything else.


----------



## shelbythedog (Aug 19, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> If you are worried about being jumped/robbed/attacked/shot while cutting, you are probably working in the wrong area.



Certainly the possibility of human attack lessens as you get farther from urban environments, but I am of the opinion that bad things can happen anywhere. I admit the reality of using my pistol for personal protection from a human while firewooding is slim, but other member's posts regarding protection from wild animals are reasonable. No different than going hiking in an area where there is dangerous game. Once you have committed to carrying you operate by the, "The one time I don't carry is when its gonna hit the fan," mentality, so it just makes sense to have it on you at all times. Its like an avid firewood scrounger leaving his pickup and saw at home and missing out on a load of free oak because he drove his wife's car to save a few bucks on gas. The scrounger just isn't willing to put themselves in that position, neither is someone who typically has a gun with them.


----------



## XTROOPER (Aug 19, 2011)

*Hey, don't carry*

Guido, don't carry, no problem. 

I am a retired Vermont State Trooper. Several years ago two young men, kids really 16 or so showed up at an old Vermonter's home one evening asking for directions. The old Vermonter met the kids at the front door with a 12 gauge shotgun and urged them to look some place else for directions. The following morning the old Vermonter discovered his phone lines were cut and a shallow grave had been dug behind his home. A short time later the same two young men visited two Dartmouth college professors and told them they were high school students doing a paper. The professors invited the two young men in their home. The young men proceeded to stab both 
professors to death. I don't know for sure, but I suspect the professors from Dartmouth likely didn't have a firearm in the house. 

XTROOPER


----------



## SPDRMNKY (Aug 19, 2011)

open carry...only when I'm out where the wild things oughta be, and there's a dead cow nearby (happens quite a bit actually)

hunk of stainless metal on the belt...buckshot in the truck

perhaps I'm arrogant, but my brain is a better weapon than any firearm...I just don't take any tool with me that I don't intend to use...firearms are tools, not emergency kits to me

head on a swivel, assess threat, confront before escalation is forced...and there are weapons everywhere if you look

I do appreciate the efficiency of firearms, and preparedness of folks who carry


----------



## TreePointer (Aug 19, 2011)

Usually, I cut alone in the oak, maple, ash, and beech area at the far end of my parents' farm. There's a new suburban YMCA satellite just on the other side of the property border. Its a nice facility with multiple outdoor soccer fields and indoor basketball, deck hockey, weightlifting, and personal training areas. At least once per cutting season, there has been someone from the YMCA who wanders into the woods to see what I'm doing. Fortunately, they were nice people, but I know that the YMCA attracts all kinds. 

A person might not think much of it by reading what I write here, but actually being in a secluded woods and having a couple strangers walk up to where you are is disconcerting. What makes it worse is that sometimes you're not aware that anybody is there until you turn off your saw.


----------



## zogger (Aug 19, 2011)

*no firing*



Guido Salvage said:


> I have never given thought to owning a pistol, much less carrying one while I was cutting wood. Perhaps I have lived a sheltered life, but the coming Armageddon everyone everyone seems to be preparing for seems to have bypassed me. If you are worried about being jumped/robbed/attacked/shot while cutting, you are probably working in the wrong area.
> 
> Go ahead, fire away.... :msp_confused:



You just haven't run into that situation yet, that's all.

I used to work in a gunshop, fully half the hand guns we sold were to people who prefaced the purchase with "well, I didn't "believe" in guns before, but.." then they would relate some pretty nasty stuff that happened to them/sister/neighbor, etc. After the fact of needing one. We were talking about it and guesstimated around 200 people in a two year period all had the same general tale of woe, and wanted one when it was too late for the first encounter. they didn't "believe". Well, what the heck are all those news stories all over the US everyday about violent crime, just a TV show, fiction? No one really "believes" it will happen to them until it does. Just because it hasn't happened to you, don't it mean it won't. And there are no perfect areas. Like when that pack of five pitbulls attacked here..uhhh....there is no reasoning with them. I wasn't expecting it. And they actually attacked my GF first, charged her as she was coming out of the greenhouse, but one of my dogs jumped in and and that was enough to keep them occupied until I came on the scene, from the screams, and they ran off. They had to go way outta their way to get this close to the house and were for sure downright mean nasty and aggressive. they weren't "provoked". And this is just generic country side. I tracked them down the next day, after looking for them that night and me and the dog getting into another fight, and potted one and winged another and the rest ran off. they would have killed any single unarmed person, I don't care if you are Rambo, five dogs is four too many to deal with to try and keep from getting chomped and dragged down, big dude or not, a pack can do it. All kinds of big macho tough guys get taken down by a single police dog all the time. Ain't no fighting a pack off unless you have an effective weapon handy and some notice.

Methheads decide they want your stuff, who knows. And that's all over, no area is "free" of that, even your area, wherever that is. No reasoning with those guys either, wild pitbulls on two legs with their brains occupied with one thing and one thing only "need something for money I can sell or actual money fast, this hit is wearing off, don't care how I get what I need".. And now how about flashmobs? Been all sorts of headlines lately about flashmobs just randomly doing a bit of the old ultra violence on random people, for sport or a little profit, for fun in other words. 

We who decided long ago to be prepared to defend self and local innocents have a term we use for people who choose not to..we call them "professional victims".

I sincerely hope nothing like that ever happens to you, and I ain't putting you down, but you've been "lucky", there is no 100% guaranteed skill involved in avoiding unusual and dangerous situations,in the woods or on the street.

The old phrase goes "stuff happens" and you won't know it until it does, and the time to prepare for it is not at that particular time, it is before that.


----------



## JLB-MT (Aug 19, 2011)

From the time I get up in the a.m. to the time I go to bed I have a pistol or revolver on me. I carry for protection from both two and four legged animals. When in the forest I have a model 629 loaded with heavy 300 grain loads. When not in the forest I carry a Glock 20.


----------



## mizzou (Aug 19, 2011)

Never thought about needing a gun where I cut. Not many poisonous snakes around here. No bears or wolverines either. Never had enough people trouble to warrant the need so far. I will openly carry a pistol for snakes when mushroom hunting sometimes, just depends on the size of the 'shrooms .:biggrin:


----------



## Dogsout (Aug 19, 2011)

Hate to be the killjoy here Zogger but I really don't care if you have your whole gun cabinet with you, if as someone stated in a post above when you are sawing you will never know they are there with the saw running and you concentrating on the job at hand. If they really mean to get what you have you will have a bullet in the back of the head while your gun is still in the holster and the saw still in your cold dead hands. I am not saying that in certain cases it would come in very handy it would, but again if they really want it gun or no gun either you equipment or yourself or more then likely both of you will be gone. Now protection from animals is a whole different story but even with that I am trying real hard to think of ANY type of animal that I could not fend of with a running chain saw here in Iowa. Different part of the country sure bears, moose, wolves and what have you but for the lions share of the board I would hope could cut with out carrying. Again JMHO.


----------



## tjbier (Aug 19, 2011)

shelbythedog said:


> I like to carry a pistol as much as possible, both to express my rights as well as protect myself, my property, and those around me. Certainly dragging around a few thousand dollars worth of saws, splitter, firewood, etc., after a long day of harvesting my most beloved natural resource would be a time I would like to have my pistol on my person. I think most would agree that having your gun in the truck is better than at home in the safe, but there is no better place than on your body, ready to draw, if necessary. If I were selling and delivering firewood you can bet I would be carrying since most transactions deal in cash and are with unknowns. What say you members of AS, anyone else feel the need to be strapped when firewooding?


 
I normally either have my gun on me or near me. Plus the 870 for any varmint running around:msp_thumbup:
I carry more for the 2 legged crazies. I cut on family owned land but the neighbors always think they own further than what they really do.
Plus I always like to pop some rounds off in a chunk of wood.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## dingeryote (Aug 19, 2011)

I carry period. Woodcutting is no exception.

Usually a G-30 or a G-19 in Hume J.I.T. for daily thrashing, or a CTAC for out on the town, church,shopping etc.
It's just the normal routine.

Nobody goes willingly to a planned ambush or assault, and nobody plans on getting assaulted anywhere.
Yet for some reason, the first thing out of thier mouths afterwards is "I never thought I would get(Insert favorite type of violent assault here) here", like thier Crystal ball was suddenly on the fritz or some ####.

The sidearm hangs on the belt, for the same reason a fire extinguisher hangs on the wall in our home.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## DSS (Aug 19, 2011)

It's threads like this that make me quite happy to be canadian.

I don't even know anybody who has a handgun.


----------



## ts39136 (Aug 20, 2011)

I carry my XD45 ever since I was shot at and couldn't shoot back. Never again. It was just someone not paying attention, but it got my attention. I cut on USFS land far from cell phone reception.


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 20, 2011)

DSS said:


> It's threads like this that make me quite happy to be canadian.
> 
> I don't even know anybody who has a handgun.


 
To each their own, but that is the scariest thing I have read in a while......


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 20, 2011)

ts39136 said:


> I carry my XD45 ever since I was shot at and couldn't shoot back. Never again. It was just someone not paying attention, but it got my attention. I cut on USFS land far from cell phone reception.


 
XD45 FTW

Is yours the full size or compact? What size slide?


----------



## ts39136 (Aug 20, 2011)

xdmp22 said:


> XD45 FTW
> 
> Is yours the full size or compact? What size slide?



Hmm... It's got the full sized handle, which I sometimes regret getting. the slide is about 1 inch short of the ones the police around here carry, cause my surplus fitted holster is a wee bit big, I want to say 5", but not sure.

I like the full handle for accuracy and handling, and my frame and clothing choices keep it mostly tucked and out of the dirt.


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 20, 2011)

ts39136 said:


> Hmm... It's got the full sized handle, which I sometimes regret getting. the slide is about 1 inch short of the ones the police around here carry, cause my surplus fitted holster is a wee bit big, I want to say 5", but not sure.
> 
> I like the full handle for accuracy and handling, and my frame and clothing choices keep it mostly tucked and out of the dirt.


 
Here is my 5" tactical compact with a pearce grip extension







If your slide sticks out past the frame like mine, you have the 5", if its almost flush at the front, you have the 4". Also, the 5" says "tactical" on the slide.... my guess is you have the 4" service

I prefer the compact with the pearce grip for CCW, plus I can always drop the 13rnd mag in with extension for full size if need be.

Pm me if you ever want to know more about XD's.....I know a whole lot and where to get all the cool shiny stuff for them


----------



## TreePointer (Aug 20, 2011)

DSS said:


> It's threads like this that make me quite happy to be canadian.
> 
> I don't even know anybody who has a handgun.



I have lived all my life in the USA, and nobody around me had ever offered information as to whether they had a handgun or not. So, for a long time I also could have said, "I don't even know anybody who has a handgun." 

Later in my life I got involved with target shooting and got to know some people who own handguns. What I'm saying is that I actively had to pursue a relationship with these people to know about their handgun ownership. 

Handgun ownership is more of a personal thing with a lot of people. People generally don't talk about it. I know a lot of hunters who have rifles, shotguns, and archery equipment, but I have no idea if most of them own a handgun. Also, one of the dirty little secrets about Hollywood actors and actresses is that a lot of them own handguns, but it's not politically correct to talk about it.

Now, how sure are you that you don't even know anybody who has a handgun? Maybe you know them but they don't talk about it. That's been my experience.


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 20, 2011)

TreePointer said:


> I have lived all my life in the USA, and nobody around me had ever offered information as to whether they had a handgun or not. So, for a long time I also could have said, "I don't even know anybody who has a handgun."
> 
> Later in my life I got involved with target shooting and got to know some people who own handguns. What I'm saying is that I actively had to pursue a relationship with these people to know about their handgun ownership.
> 
> ...


 
Not 100% sure, but handguns are very rare IIRC in Canada...I have a buddy that goes up there every year for fishing trips and the Mounties don't give him sweat about long guns, but have confiscated one of his handguns.....they just don't like them up there


----------



## DSS (Aug 20, 2011)

xdmp22 said:


> To each their own, but that is the scariest thing I have read in a while......


 
Yes, to each their own, but I don't see why that scared you. I've never had a scare in my life that had anything to do with a gun. We just don't have them. I could drive for miles and miles without passing a house that contained a gun. It's unusual here to see any kind of gun. Anywhere.

The odd farmer might have a rifle, or a hunter with an old 12 gauge, but handguns? For protection? From what?

This is a very peaceful place. The most dangerous thing someone is liable to pull on you is a bic lighter. I'm not anti-gun. I believe anyone should be able to have all the guns, or anything else, that they want. I'm just glad I don't need one.


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 20, 2011)

DSS said:


> Yes, to each their own, but I don't see why that scared you. I've never had a scare in my life that had anything to do with a gun. We just don't have them. I could drive for miles and miles without passing a house that contained a gun. It's unusual here to see any kind of gun. Anywhere.
> 
> The odd farmer might have a rifle, or a hunter with an old 12 gauge, but handguns? For protection? From what?
> 
> This is a very peaceful place. The most dangerous thing someone is liable to pull on you is a bic lighter. I'm not anti-gun. I believe anyone should be able to have all the guns, or anything else, that they want. I'm just glad I don't need one.


 
Nothing wrong with how you feel, I know a little about the gun situation up there, but not everything.

As posted though, there are a lot of people here that are buying guns that have thought for a long time they didn't need one until something happened.

I bought mine and got my CCW when I was repoing cars years ago....it was nice to have on my hip, OWB....most confrontations in the office dissapated once I came in the door with it on my hip.

Also as posted, I would rather have one and not need it than to need it and not have it..........

Props to you if you never have the need for one


----------



## DSS (Aug 20, 2011)

TreePointer said:


> I have lived all my life in the USA, and nobody around me had ever offered information as to whether they had a handgun or not. So, for a long time I also could have said, "I don't even know anybody who has a handgun."
> 
> Later in my life I got involved with target shooting and got to know some people who own handguns. What I'm saying is that I actively had to pursue a relationship with these people to know about their handgun ownership.
> 
> ...



I'm quite sure that nobody I know owns a handgun. I could count all the people I know with shotguns on one hand. People don't have guns in this area, it's as simple as that.



xdmp22 said:


> Not 100% sure, but handguns are very rare IIRC in Canada...I have a buddy that goes up there every year for fishing trips and the Mounties don't give him sweat about long guns, but have confiscated one of his handguns.....they just don't like them up there


 

I'm not 100% sure about our gun laws either, but I do know they are very restrictive. It's a huge amount of hassle to get a permit for a handgun. Even for a rifle you have to take a course, get a permit, get a criminal check, get interviewed by the police I think....a lot of unnecessary BS probably.

I don't have anything against you guys and your guns, it just all seems strange to me. A whole different way of life.


----------



## Hedgerow (Aug 20, 2011)

DSS said:


> It's threads like this that make me quite happy to be canadian.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

It's a right to bear arms thing... You have to understand I really enjoy not having to carry a gun while cutting. But I am really encouraged by the folks on the site that do. If the Michigan boys could get rid of Wayne county, they would be like us ozark folks. Good people up there... 
Just sayin'... An armed society is a polite society...


----------



## ropensaddle (Aug 20, 2011)

No but then most dont care to f with me I see absolutely nothing wrong with it though.


----------



## AIM (Aug 20, 2011)

I really hope The USA doesn't end up like Canada as far as gun laws go. 
I can't think of to many people that DON'T own a handgun. And I'd venture a guess that 9 out of 10 households have at least an old .22 rifle in the closet.


----------



## fields_mj (Aug 20, 2011)

xdmp22 said:


> To each their own, but that is the scariest thing I have read in a while......


 
+1

We don't carry a firearm everyday because we are scared of the evil that's in this world. We carry a firearm, and train with it so that we can properly address the evil when it confronts us. 

Personally, I flat out refuse to allow someone else to dictate how capable I am at defending myself against them. My Government is NOT responsible for me. (Actually, I could have just stopped at responsible). I'm a grown adult, and I'm responsible for myself, and for my family, and generally speaking when we see someone else that literally can't stand for themselves, we step in on their behalf because we can. It's an American thing. It's just the way we are. 

When cutting firewood, I'm more concerned about the coyotes, stray dogs, and/or coons that I may see while driving down the lane or while getting my equipment ready. I've seen a fair amount over the years, and yes I could have let them walk along, but I choose to dispatch them. That's one less mouth that's eating the rabbits and game birds. I also don't always go straight to the woods. Sometimes I stop along the way for gas, at the hardware store, grocery store for some drinks or who knows where. Napoleon said "chance favors the prepared mind," and I choose to always be prepared.


----------



## MNGuns (Aug 20, 2011)

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto (Japanese Navy) ...

Pretty much sums it up there....:msp_thumbup:



And for our peaceful brothers to the north, here is an interesting read about another very peaceful place called......<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland">Switzerland</a>.....

And yet another read on a group of like minded individuals, your friendly neighborhood <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Service">IDF</a>, an equal opportunity employer....:msp_thumbup:


----------



## stumpy75 (Aug 20, 2011)

I don't carry any weapon other than the chainsaw I'm running. I know it would not reach out like a handgun, but otherwise, I'm sure it would be pretty lethal!


----------



## slowp (Aug 20, 2011)

I pack a cooler with girl beers in it. That's all I need.


----------



## audible fart (Aug 20, 2011)

Hey canadian guys, come on down to baltimore city. Tell the nice men milling around what a peaceful man you are.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## zogger (Aug 20, 2011)

*Unless I am felling big trees*



Dogsout said:


> Hate to be the killjoy here Zogger but I really don't care if you have your whole gun cabinet with you, if as someone stated in a post above when you are sawing you will never know they are there with the saw running and you concentrating on the job at hand. If they really mean to get what you have you will have a bullet in the back of the head while your gun is still in the holster and the saw still in your cold dead hands. I am not saying that in certain cases it would come in very handy it would, but again if they really want it gun or no gun either you equipment or yourself or more then likely both of you will be gone. Now protection from animals is a whole different story but even with that I am trying real hard to think of ANY type of animal that I could not fend of with a running chain saw here in Iowa. Different part of the country sure bears, moose, wolves and what have you but for the lions share of the board I would hope could cut with out carrying. Again JMHO.



My dogs are with me and they would probably pick up on some badguys close enough. Now a dedicated long range rifle shooter, no, but anything else, yes. One of them picked up on a sneak thief a quarter mile away before, up at the airport here, and I went and rousted him out. 

To each their own. Like I said I have stopped getting car jacked before because I was carrying, just stopped at a random light downtown atlanta, had my window down as I like fresh air, and someone ran up and tried to grab the wheel and door handle. World's worst timing for a jack attempt, I had *just* bought a 44. Not kidding. Whipped it out, told him to F off and he ran, fast. Another time was living in a second story apartment, a noise woke me up, a burglar had climbed in the kitchen window, there was a fence nearby he got a boost from. Again, grabbed a piece, point, walked to the door, opened it up said "get out", he left. Rodney king riots, got a call from GF downtown, she and her mom trapped in their work buildings, riots going on all around their area, the cops (the federal building actually in Atlanta) with my first trip in wouldn't let anyone out unless there was a car right there for them, so I went down to rescue them,(much longer story than this, took me two trips then later on that afternoon some friends and I had to group up and protect our neighborhood) got surrounded by the mob, one car blocked me in on purpose, they guy was laughing about it, he wanted to see me get stomped by the mob, had to get pretty physical with that driver to get him to move, he got a dent in his skull, and me with my piece held the mob off until I could get outta there and complete my mission. Didn't shoot anyone but I was pretty darn serious about showing my intentions if any of them got close to me. Finally met up with a roadblock with the cops and I quick told him my story and he said they were ORDERED to let the mob run nutz, to do NOTHING. He was disgusted with that, I mean annoyed beyond belief. He told me go ahead and blast 'em if a similar situation occurred to me on the way back home, as different areas where spring up with mob violence all around.

I mean that was five minutes between "normal" all sorts of folks walking around regular, then the same people rioting and going batsquat crazy. I saw kids, old ladies, middle aged folks, you name it, all rioting, busting glass looting stores torching cars, etc. It's like a switch got flipped.

I'm not even close to being a racist, I am an old civil rights worker from the old days, all the way up to taking tear gas at rights demonstrations (peaceful, they gassed us anyway), but I ain't dumb either, badguys doing wrong just can't be ignored or reasoned with.

Then on farms and out and about, etc, you just never freaking know. I have been attacked twice now by wild dog packs, the first time I was out with my bow and nailed one as they came in from all sides, the others circled around then and followed me a LONG way back to the dirt road. They wanted a kill. 

There's no way I am gonna be pollyanna about self defense. You go through unexpected stuff like that and it teaches you a lesson.

So it doesn't matter, chainsawing or not, city or country or burbs, you just do not know. No one is that psychic to know when the unexpected can show up and present you with "interesting times".. guys like me telling our stories are just really trying to be helpful, no different from any other "safety" issue, like hey, wear your skull bucket when riding your scoot, we don't want anyone to find out after the fact when it is too late how your situation can go from OK to terrible in seconds. that's all. We aren't violence freaks (I am real peaceful meselfs, don't go looking for any trouble), I am not a "nut", I own a few firearms, just like saws, that's it, no huge collection, but sometimes trouble finds you anyway and it is real handy to have an effective self defense tool, plus know how and when to use it.


----------



## shelbythedog (Aug 20, 2011)

Hedgerow said:


> It's a right to bear arms thing... You have to understand I really enjoy not having to carry a gun while cutting. But I am really encouraged by the folks on the site that do. If the Michigan boys could get rid of Wayne county, they would be like us ozark folks. Good people up there...
> Just sayin'... An armed society is a polite society...


 
I moved out of the western Detroit suburbs and went north for college in 2004. Besides a few summers home to live with my parents I have been out of that area since then, my only regret in leaving is that my family is still back there. Life up here in the center of the mitten is a lot more easy going, and it seems that I encounter a lot more decent people along the way. Now, I just have to steer clear of the east side of Saginaw and Flint, thankfully I bought my house far enough from both it will take a long time for the bad guys to catch up with me.


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 20, 2011)

Another favorite saying of mine is, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away."


----------



## DSS (Aug 20, 2011)

audible fart said:


> Hey canadian guys, come on down to baltimore city. Tell the nice men milling around what a peaceful man you are.:hmm3grin2orange:


 
If you could read instead of constantly shooting your mouth off, AF, you would have noticed that I said I don't need a gun _in this area._ Someone like you, yes, I would think you would need one.


----------



## Dogsout (Aug 20, 2011)

zogger said:


> My dogs are with me and they would probably pick up on some badguys close enough. Now a dedicated long range rifle shooter, no, but anything else, yes. One of them picked up on a sneak thief a quarter mile away before, up at the airport here, and I went and rousted him out.
> 
> To each their own. Like I said I have stopped getting car jacked before because I was carrying, just stopped at a random light downtown atlanta, had my window down as I like fresh air, and someone ran up and tried to grab the wheel and door handle. World's worst timing for a jack attempt, I had *just* bought a 44. Not kidding. Whipped it out, told him to F off and he ran, fast. Another time was living in a second story apartment, a noise woke me up, a burglar had climbed in the kitchen window, there was a fence nearby he got a boost from. Again, grabbed a piece, point, walked to the door, opened it up said "get out", he left. Rodney king riots, got a call from GF downtown, she and her mom trapped in their work buildings, riots going on all around their area, the cops (the federal building actually in Atlanta) with my first trip in wouldn't let anyone out unless there was a car right there for them, so I went down to rescue them,(much longer story than this, took me two trips then later on that afternoon some friends and I had to group up and protect our neighborhood) got surrounded by the mob, one car blocked me in on purpose, they guy was laughing about it, he wanted to see me get stomped by the mob, had to get pretty physical with that driver to get him to move, he got a dent in his skull, and me with my piece held the mob off until I could get outta there and complete my mission. Didn't shoot anyone but I was pretty darn serious about showing my intentions if any of them got close to me. Finally met up with a roadblock with the cops and I quick told him my story and he said they were ORDERED to let the mob run nutz, to do NOTHING. He was disgusted with that, I mean annoyed beyond belief. He told me go ahead and blast 'em if a similar situation occurred to me on the way back home, as different areas where spring up with mob violence all around.
> 
> ...


 
LA riots, protecting your home and family, protecting yourself or property in downtown Atlanta how did that get into a thread when the ORIGINAL question was "Do you carry while firewooding" . I Understand all of that and I agree 100% no one is going to screw with my family either. At present I have 7 guns in the house if the need should arise. As far as cutting wood I would agree to disagree. As for the pack of dogs they better be really quick because I am fairly nimble with a running chain saw in my hands. As for all these bad guys you are fending off I would very much appreciate it if you would dispatch of them all before they get to my neck of the woods. (I'm good with that)


----------



## tjbier (Aug 20, 2011)

shelbythedog said:


> I moved out of the western Detroit suburbs and went north for college in 2004. Besides a few summers home to live with my parents I have been out of that area since then, my only regret in leaving is that my family is still back there. Life up here in the center of the mitten is a lot more easy going, and it seems that I encounter a lot more decent people along the way. Now, I just have to steer clear of the east side of Saginaw and Flint, thankfully I bought my house far enough from both it will take a long time for the bad guys to catch up with me.


 
Cadillac? Grayling? I have to agree with those rough areas, we went to a wedding in Saginaw 3 yrs ago and it was scary hood turn on to a different road and it was 6000sqft+ mansions that were now B&Bs or professional offices! You might know exactly where I'm talking about.

As far as I kno, in Canada if you happen to have a handgun it needs to be in a locked hand case, and then inside a fireproof (or something like) large gun safe.
If you are going to shoot this handgun at a sportsmen club you MUST call the Police and inform them what you have and where you r going, also taking the most direct route no stopping for groceries ect. IMO not worth owning one in Canada.
This all may b hearsay , but that is what I was informed.:kilt:


----------



## MNGuns (Aug 20, 2011)

tjbier said:


> Cadillac? Grayling? I have to agree with those rough areas, we went to a wedding in Saginaw 3 yrs ago and it was scary hood turn on to a different road and it was 6000sqft+ mansions that were now B&Bs or professional offices! You might know exactly where I'm talking about.
> 
> As far as I kno, in Canada if you happen to have a handgun it needs to be in a locked hand case, and then inside a fireproof (or something like) large gun safe.
> If you are going to shoot this handgun at a sportsmen club you MUST call the Police and inform them what you have and where you r going, also taking the most direct route no stopping for groceries ect. IMO not worth owning one in Canada.This all may b hearsay , but that is what I was informed.:kilt:



Gotta love you some gubermnet regulation. Thanks for keeping me safe from myself....:msp_thumbdn:


----------



## banshee67 (Aug 20, 2011)

i couldnt imagine living in such fear that it drove me to carry a handgun everywhere i went, thats horrible..


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 20, 2011)

banshee67 said:


> i couldnt imagine living in such fear that it drove me to carry a handgun everywhere i went, thats horrible..


 
Its not fear that motivates me or even everyone I know that caries.

It boils down to we have the right and choose to protect what we have worked for, and what we love and charish.

Arborist wear chaps and other PPE with the intention of never needing them, nobody wants to tear up a 100 dollar pair of chaps.

People alergic to bees carry an eppy (sp?) pen in case they get stung, but they don't take up honey making.

Us nice gun carrying folks don't want to use our guns, but if the need arises, we will be prepared........plain and simple.


----------



## Guido Salvage (Aug 20, 2011)

Hedgerow said:


> An armed society is a polite society...



Actually, an armed society is one with murders and gun induced violence and injuries... Kind of reminds me of the cold war era and the need to get bigger and bigger nukes in order to "deter" the other folks. Many societies seem to function in admirable fashion without the volume of guns that one finds in America and I hear no protests about their freedoms being infringed upon.

Unless you reside in the inner city or next to a meth lab, you actually have a much greater chance of being injured or killed in a vehicle accident coming and going to cut wood than be confronted by a deranged would be chain saw thief in the woods. I would be more concerned about protecting myself from injury while riding/driving than someone jumping me in the woods.

Weapons can become a crutch to those who lack the ability or desire to find a more reasonable solution to a problem. While I do own an assortment of rifles and shotguns that I purchased for hunting, I have never seen the need to carry a concealed weapon or place myself in areas or situations where that might be required. 

As an interesting aside, the most recent year that I could find CDC statistics for firearms violence was 2004. I was surprised that of the 29,569 firearm fatalities that year, 16,750 (or 57%) were classified as suicides. Thus, you have a much greater chance of killing yourself (57%) than at the hands of someone else (39%). The remaining 2% of the fatalities were classified as accidental deaths. In addition, New England states occupied six of the top seven positions for fewest firearm fatalities per 100,000 people, with New York ranking 4th with only 4.93 deaths per 100,000 residents. By comparison, Louisiana ranked as the worst state with 20.01 deaths per 100,000 people. 

National Firearm Injury and Death Statistics | Washington CeaseFire


----------



## audible fart (Aug 20, 2011)

banshee67 said:


> i couldnt imagine living in such fear that it drove me to carry a handgun everywhere i went, thats horrible..


 
Post your address. We'll see which one of us is afraid as my crew takes your stuff.


----------



## zogger (Aug 20, 2011)

*now look up*



Guido Salvage said:


> Actually, an armed society is one with murders and gun induced violence and injuries... Kind of reminds me of the cold war era and the need to get bigger and bigger nukes in order to "deter" the other folks. Many societies seem to function in admirable fashion without the volume of guns that one finds in America and I hear no protests about their freedoms being infringed upon.
> 
> Unless you reside in the inner city or next to a meth lab, you actually have a much greater chance of being injured or killed in a vehicle accident coming and going to cut wood than be confronted by a deranged would be chain saw thief in the woods. I would be more concerned about protecting myself from injury while riding/driving than someone jumping me in the woods.
> 
> ...


 
Now look up how many people are killed by medical malpractice every year. Well, if you want to look at odds of bad stuff happening to you.

I'll go with the founders, they had numerous good reasons to carve in stone the second amendment directly after the first.

The primary one is, more people killed by their own governments then by generic badguy criminals. The US is unique, completely unique, among nations in that we were founded with that being recognized as full total reality.

In the 20th century it was way over 100 million. and it happens every day. Even in the US now, we have on the scene execution by tazer as a common occurrence now.

The whole thing is strange, there are valid arguments from every direction you want to look at or from in this discussion. But...I would still fall in the camp it is better to have and not need (maybe) than need and not have.


----------



## banshee67 (Aug 20, 2011)

audible fart said:


> Post your address. We'll see which one of us is afraid as my crew takes your stuff.


 
easy with that inflated sense of alpha that handgun carriers experience, theres a big difference between being tough and feeling tough because of the weapon you have strapped to your hip
i know it was a joke, but so is the attitude a lot of CCW users have

if someone really wants to pull a gun and rob me, thats fine with me.. take my ####, who cares... id rather that than get shot while trying to reach for my gun like a hero


----------



## Guido Salvage (Aug 20, 2011)

zogger said:


> Now look up how many people are killed by medical malpractice every year. Well, if you want to look at odds of bad stuff happening to you.



And a gun won't protect you from that! I just happened to choose firearm statistics, I could have easily chosen vehicular statistics.

The United States is unique in many ways, most significantly that it is still operating under a Constitution that was adopted in 1791. Over the past 220 years there have been vast changes in the world and the courts have attempted to apply this document to activities that were never known to the founding fathers.

At the time of the Constitution there was a very small professional army and navy that defended the country as there was deep seated fear of the repercussions of a large standing army which might lead to future wars. As a result there was a great reliance on a civilian corp (the "militia" referred to in the Constitution) that would be called to combat if the need arose. The Second Amendment was drafted with this in mind, that people in civilian life could keep arms for the sake of defending the company in the event the need arose.

Below is the text of the Amendment:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

At the time the weaponry was of many differing calibers and origins. As a result, armories were established to house the weapons necessary to supply the militia and standardization began to take place. The militia was considered the primary defense against foreign armies as well as internal tyrants.

It is from this concept that the militia would act to prevent the usurpation of power by the government that today's concept of the right to bear arms took hold. There has been much debate over the years as to whether the term "people" was used in an individual or a collective form. While I side with the theory that it was intended in the collective form, the Supreme Court has elected to interpret it on an individual level. While the NRA was founded to ""promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis," its agenda has changed to a more political one in the past 30 years that promotes the right of gun ownership.

Out of curiosity, how many people who carry weapons have ever needed them to protect themselves while cutting?


----------



## audible fart (Aug 20, 2011)

You read some of this crap and it's pretty obvious how we ended up with this detached malevolent guy in the white house. Oh, the constitution is so old and outdated. I like how obama just follows the rules he likes and disregards the rest way better.


----------



## beerman6 (Aug 20, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> As an interesting aside, the most recent year that I could find CDC statistics for firearms violence was 2004. I was surprised that of the 29,569 firearm fatalities that year, 16,750 (or 57%) were classified as suicides. Thus, you have a much greater chance of killing yourself (57%) than at the hands of someone else (39%). The remaining 2% of the fatalities were classified as accidental deaths.


 That math dont work...

carry em if ya got em!


----------



## banshee67 (Aug 20, 2011)

audible fart said:


> You read some of this crap and it's pretty obvious how we ended up with this detached malevolent guy in the white house. Oh, the constitution is so old and outdated. I like how obama just follows the rules he likes and disregards the rest way better.


 
say what you mean


----------



## shades2914 (Aug 20, 2011)

Sounds like a ford vs chevy vs dodge vs etc debate lol

I personally don't own a gun, don't have the money or there is something else more important to get. I would like to buy one and get a ccpermit one day. Not even really for pertection so much as I like guns. Yes it would be nice to have in a bad situation, but the fun part about living where people can cc, which one is packing and which one isn't. I agree they are tools just like a saw or anything else. The trick is knowing when to use it and when not to, its usually refered to as common sence. A lot of people are lacking it anymore, you just have to be careful in whatever situation you are presented with, usual or not, I watch my back, not cause I'm scared, because I want to be aware of my suroundings. 

That being said if you pack great, if you don't great, I'm happy either way


----------



## LAH (Aug 20, 2011)

Supply my spending money with firewood & bullets. Both have brought me nothing but comfort & fun. I like to cut it & I like to shoot'em. A good chainsaw & a fine firearm turns my crank. Always have & always will. There's no need to fuss guys. Some love'em some don't. Both are dangerous in the wrong hands but are good tools in the right hands. I'm out of here.
uttahere2:


----------



## Guido Salvage (Aug 20, 2011)

audible fart said:


> You read some of this crap and it's pretty obvious how we ended up with this detached malevolent guy in the white house. Oh, the constitution is so old and outdated. I like how obama just follows the rules he likes and disregards the rest way better.



That does this have to do with carry a weapon while running a saw (a pretty nebulous subject at best) or anything else for that matter? Seems some folks try to make a political statement whenever they can, regardless of how unintelligible it may be. 



beerman6 said:


> That math dont work...



Actually, as stated, the math *DOESN'T* work, but I suspect that is due to rounding or a small number that were not identified or fell outside those categories.

I just hope at the next GTG that a gunfight does not break out and innocent people end up injured or dead...


----------



## audible fart (Aug 20, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> That does this have to do with carry a weapon while running a saw (a pretty nebulous subject at best) or anything else for that matter? Seems some folks try to make a political statement whenever they can, regardless of how unintelligible it may be...


 

How dare you type this mess and call MY post unintelligible! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Sagetown (Aug 20, 2011)

DSS said:


> It's threads like this that make me quite happy to be canadian.
> 
> I don't even know anybody who has a handgun.


 
Right On! As long as your next door neighbor is a free United States, however, if say Iran was your neighbor, you may not be so happy. Situations cause a change of heart.


----------



## ts39136 (Aug 20, 2011)

Oy.... I should have known where this conversation was going, but in response to a post a while back about the attitude of people who CCW.

Around here, everyone either owns a gun, or has a parent that owns a gun. Guns are a tool of everyday life... hunting, farm management, protection. Most have grown to respect the firearm for what it is, also. They've seen the intentines pulled out of a rock-chuck, or at the very least a gallon jug explode to nothingness. 

For me, the decision to carry concealed was made out of convenience. I carry the tool, but the laws say I have to carry it on the dashboard of my car, keep it exposed at all times, load it when I exit the truck, unload it when I get in, etc. It'd be like carrying your knife over your shoulder instead of neatly tucked away in it's sheath. I did not want the ya-hoo image of "proudly" displaying my piece, so that is why I chose to conceal it. It's very likely that you would never even guess who was carrying a weapon, because many don't feel the need to talk about it, even if the subject came up. Out here, a carried gun doesn't even deserve a second glance.

It's the ones lifting their shirt for their friends and pulling out there guns at parties, that you need to worry about. You can see the same personality differences all over... for instance, you have the men throwing 100lb hay bales around all summer long that keep their muscles nicely tucked under their shirts. Then you have some that go to the gym and sport their muscles as some sort of status symbol through skin tight sleevless undershirts. It's the personality, not the gun ownership, at work.

I attempt to understand why the views are so polarized. I guess if there were zero guns on this earth, that idea could work, but I don't really forsee a farmer getting his slingshot to scare off the wolves that are killing his cattle.

This was my attempt at peace, hope it doesn't keep the flame going.


----------



## DSS (Aug 20, 2011)

Sagetown said:


> Right On! As long as your next door neighbor is a free United States, however, if say Iran was your neighbor, you may not be so happy. Situations cause a change of heart.


 
Yup. I'm quite happy living next to the US. If I lived next to Iran, well,

...I guess I'd just saddle up my camel and #### off.


----------



## zogger (Aug 20, 2011)

*people*



Guido Salvage said:


> And a gun won't protect you from that! I just happened to choose firearm statistics, I could have easily chosen vehicular statistics.
> 
> The United States is unique in many ways, most significantly that it is still operating under a Constitution that was adopted in 1791. Over the past 220 years there have been vast changes in the world and the courts have attempted to apply this document to activities that were never known to the founding fathers.
> 
> ...



The concept of people or person didn't change from one sentence to the next in the constitution. Those were some pretty smart cookies and they thought things out and chose their words carefully. It's an individual right. Your right to free speech, is it collective, or *yours*? It's the same all the way through, they didn't want or design a different form of individual just for the second.

Of course the black robed wonders balled it all up with granting corporations personhood......

Interesting little factoid in US history, both marriage "licenses" and gun licenses or "permits" originated as blatantly racist "jim crow" laws. "Vermont styled" is the only legitimate form of gun ownership in the US, everything else is BS. A born with "right" does not need a permit or permission, you are born with it. And marriage licenses, again, BS, it is not the states business to decide who you associate with, for any purpose. I think they are both rather obviously unconstitutional. But we haven't had a constitutional government since....a long time. We certainly don't have one now. They claim we do, but really...that's a stretch and a half. 

I think it would be a good idea if they really tried it, because it just might work.


----------



## audible fart (Aug 20, 2011)

The crime riddled state of maryland not only refuses to enforce immigration law (sanctuary state), they refuse to "issue" ccp's. If you're joe citizen with a spotless record? Sorry. They want to assure the criminals that their prey is unarmed. I can assure you that a lot of very law abiding people around here don't wait for a blatantly criminal state government to issue them a plastic card. Just in the last 20 years, the transformation is stunning when you drive through some neighborhoods. These people don't give a damn about anything, and they live to let people know it. The world isn't as pretty and fancy everywhere as it might be where you are. You can't reason with unreasonable people, and i really do hope that none of you find out the hard way. "I avoid the bad areas", you might think. But when the "bad areas" encroach out into the suburbs (already happened) you realize the bad element is all around you. I plan to vote with my feet and get the hell out of here in due course. It's one of the worst states in the union. But to answer the thread's main question, i AM lucky enough to have a really nice area to cut my firewood. But the mighty MS390 is a dangerous weapon in and of itself!

At close range, anyway.

The way things are going these days around here, you're lucky not to get "flash mobbed" going out to get the paper in the morning.


----------



## StubornDutchman (Aug 20, 2011)

I almost always have a gun on my person, even when cutting firewood here on the farm. I'm too stupid to know when I might need it so I play it safe and carry wherever it's legal to do so.


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 20, 2011)

Hmmmmmmmm.......
Strange thread... I've carried a gun every day for something over 30-years...
I guess I've never thought about when *not[* to carry...
It's like putting my wallet and knife in the jeans pocket, just automatic... gun just goes in, or on, the belt.
I guess I find it more strange that some people *don't* carry a gun.
I mean seriously... bad people, people with bad intentions, evil people... they just flat carry weapons.
Why would anyone take a chance on being under-prepared? Flat foolishness!

Yeah, I have a handgun on me when cutting... or doing anything else. There's usually also a bigger one under the seat of the truck... a shotgun behind the seat... and often a rifle laying on the seat.

Ya' see... I don't need to be afraid... 'cause I carry a gun.


----------



## beerman6 (Aug 20, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> Actually, as stated, the math *DOESN'T* work, but I suspect that is due to rounding or a small number that were not identified or fell outside those categories.
> 
> I just hope at the next GTG that a gunfight does not break out and innocent people end up injured or dead...



come on...for real a shootout at a GTG?

rounding #'s always work in the favor of the person doing the writing...and that writing came out of DC,I dont trust somebody that cant add...


----------



## SPDRMNKY (Aug 20, 2011)

bit of a hijack, but just had a thought...

if you're ever defending yourself from wild animals with your chainsaw...cut with the top of the bar...push em' away rather than pull em' in

now a human, I can see when you might cut with the bottom of the bar...get inside their "perimeter"

maybe bottom bar airborne animals too...get em' on the ground

aliens get plunge cut...they're all soft and squishy

always have a plan...and I guarantee you'll never watch a zombie movie the same way again!


----------



## Guido Salvage (Aug 20, 2011)

I suppose that the people who have responded to this thread fall into the following two camps:

A) Those that always carry weapons because the government is not trustworthy and/or everyone is a threat to assault them or steal their possessions, or;
B) Those who do not view themselves as a perpetual target of violence or robbery and do not view the risk justifies a weapon.

While I fall into the latter camp, there is no certainty that if I carried a weapon that I would be guaranteed protection for myself, my possessions or my family. While everyone boasts about how they would shoot anyone that "threatens" them, the use of a firearm has its own implications and might in fact escalate the situation and instead result in injury or death to them. 

I realize that I am not going to change the views of the NRA and Tea Party members here, but there are some in society that view that everyone (including the government) is not out to screw them and take everything they own. 

I will leave you guys to shoot it out...


----------



## audible fart (Aug 20, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> I suppose that the people who have responded to this thread fall into the following two camps:
> 
> A) Those that always carry weapons because the government is not trustworthy and/or everyone is a threat to assault them or steal their possessions, or;
> B) Those who do not view themselves as a perpetual target of violence or robbery and do not view the risk justifies a weapon.
> ...


 
I enjoy a good insulting, petulant, generalization myself! It sure is easy to spot who was raised in a fatherless household!


----------



## ts39136 (Aug 20, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> I suppose that the people who have responded to this thread fall into the following two camps:
> 
> A) Those that always carry weapons because the government is not trustworthy and/or everyone is a threat to assault them or steal their possessions, or;
> B) Those who do not view themselves as a perpetual target of violence or robbery and do not view the risk justifies a weapon.
> ...



Now that is, in fact, the most ignorant statement I've read in a loooong time. I don't know why I even posted on this thread, cause now I feel obligated to see it through.  I agree that you will have no guarantee of protection, and may in fact escalate the situation. Why? Cause you feel that showing a gun is a statement. If my gun is exposed, it is there to be used, and only if there is a use for it. If a situation can be handled without it, well so be it. Some folks think strapping on a piece will make them safer, just like putting a knife in your pocket makes you a whittler. Just not so. You need to know how to use the tool and for what it us used.

I enjoy talking with strangers and the homeless alike, not once have I felt they had any ill will towards me, but I carry a gun, so what caregory does that put me in?

How about C) Someone who, beacause they enjoy shooting, has honed their skills to a useful level and has made room in his biological toolbox for another tool and who carries said tool with him.

I don't argue that you carry a knife, whether it be for personal protection or for whittling or for skinning deer. So why do you argue over the carrying of a gun? Now, this is not a pointed question grown out of spite, but an honest seeking of the answer. Do you feel threatened by those that carry? Have you had bad experiences with folks that carry? Do you not understand why they carry?


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 20, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> I suppose that the people who have responded to this thread fall into the following two camps:
> 
> A) Those that always carry weapons because the government is not trustworthy and/or everyone is a threat to assault them or steal their possessions, or;
> B) Those who do not view themselves as a perpetual target of violence or robbery and do not view the risk justifies a weapon.
> ...


 

Yeesh.

In an age of random violence, home invasion, meth maggots and upcoming civil disorder, to go unarmed is becoming irresponsible. At some point you need to make the choice of being able to protect you and your's or become victims. Firearms are like knives, no matter the size, don't be without one.


----------



## camr (Aug 21, 2011)

banshee67 said:


> easy with that inflated sense of alpha that handgun carriers experience, theres a big difference between being tough and feeling tough because of the weapon you have strapped to your hip
> i know it was a joke, but so is the attitude a lot of CCW users have
> 
> *if someone really wants to pull a gun and rob me, thats fine with me.. take my ####, who cares... id rather that than get shot while trying to reach for my gun like a hero*


 

The assumption here is a thief/punk/methhead will just take your stuff, turn and walk away. The reality is you're just as likely to get shot by said thief/punk/methhead even if you don't offer any resistance at all. I think I'd rather have the opportunity to protect myself against deadly force than assume the thief/punk/methhead that's robbing me is moral enough to not take my life even though I abided by his rules. As a gentleman I know often says: "There are no victims, only volunteers".


----------



## ancy (Aug 21, 2011)

*I all ways carry!*

It is easy for me it is allways there!


----------



## dingeryote (Aug 21, 2011)

camr said:


> [/B]
> 
> The assumption here is a thief/punk/methhead will just take your stuff, turn and walk away. The reality is you're just as likely to get shot by said thief/punk/methhead even if you don't offer any resistance at all. I think I'd rather have the opportunity to protect myself against deadly force than assume the thief/punk/methhead that's robbing me is moral enough to not take my life even though I abided by his rules. As a gentleman I know often says: "There are no victims, only volunteers".


 

The topic was "Who carries while wood cutting". Immediately the twisted panty crowd showed up, to proclaim how wrong anyone was to do so. I reckon they have to reinforce thier own self image by such efforts. 

LOL!!!
Situational awareness, and maintaining the reactionary gap, leads to observing people closely.
The rectal defilade afflicted sheep are always obvious, and almost always, they are the same ones #####ing about folks who actually take the responsibilty for thier own well bieng seriously. 

Interesting.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## aandabooks (Aug 21, 2011)

DSS said:


> It's threads like this that make me quite happy to be canadian.
> 
> I don't even know anybody who has a handgun.


 
Guess I now know where I'll be headed when the SHTF down here in the lower 48.

I'll be the most well armed son of a bi**h in the valley.


----------



## shelbythedog (Aug 21, 2011)

tjbier said:


> Cadillac? Grayling?



Those are both well to the north of me, I am 15 miles outside of Saginaw and about double that to Flint. Cadillac and Grayling are still just for vacationing.


----------



## shelbythedog (Aug 21, 2011)

camr said:


> As a gentleman I know often says: "There are no victims, only volunteers".



I'm pretty sure that guy sold me my first pistol. I was hoping you would see this thread.


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 21, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> I suppose that the people who have responded to this thread fall into the following two camps:
> 
> A) *Those that always carry weapons because the government is not trustworthy and/or everyone is a threat to assault them or steal their possessions,* or;
> B) Those who do not view themselves as a perpetual target of violence or robbery and do not view the risk justifies a weapon.


 
Guido, that's just silly. I don't go armed because believe the government is untrustworthy (although that could be debatable) or because I believe _everyone_ is a threat. Simply, I'm a realist, I understand that there is evil in this world, and I believe it is my responsibility... *my duty*, to be prepared at all times to protect me and mine.

It's a common misconception that it's the job of government (law enforcement) to protect you from evil... But, that ain't the way it works; the job of law enforcement is to catch and punish the evil person *AFTER* he/she has committed the evil act. I made up my mind many years ago that neither I or my family would ever be a victim... *EVER!* I just flat refuse to hand over my wallet, I flat refuse to stand idle and watch as my wife or children are forced to give up possessions, dignity or their life to evil. I know people that never felt the need to "go armed", but have changed their mind _after_ something bad happens... What they don't understand is that it's too late, they have already become a victim, and the damage done by the experience of helplessness will be carried like a scar for the rest of their (and their family's) life. I will not be one of those people.

I have never had reason to "pull my piece" against another human being, never even needed to "show" it _per sey_... and the good lord willing, I never will. But, I am mentally prepared to do what is needed in the event of the unthinkable... there will be no hesitation, if I ever need to un-holster it, I will be pulling the trigger in the same motion.


----------



## fields_mj (Aug 21, 2011)

banshee67 said:


> i couldnt imagine living in such fear that it drove me to carry a handgun everywhere i went, thats horrible..


 
Me neither. However, to imply that the only motivation for carrying a weapon is fear, well that's just flat out incorrect. Do you wear a seat belt? Does your vehicle contain a spare tire? Do you own a fire extinguisher? Does your house have a smoke detector in it? On a daily basis, how afraid are you of a car wreck, flat tire, or a fire? 

I know several people who have bought a firearm out of fear, and I've had a lot of people ask me over the years what kind of gun should I buy for protection. My answer has ALWAYS been, buy a shotgun, and that has NEVER been the answer they were looking for. 

The truth is that owning a firearm is a lot like owning a horse. It's a way of life, and if it's not, then the owner is likely to get seriously injured some day. Handguns specifically, are very difficult to operate proficiently, and even more so in a high stress situation, and are by far the most ineffective type of firearm for killing anything, and very few gun owners are willing to dedicate the time, energy, and resources to become proficient with them. Personally, I think it should be law that EVERYONE owns at least one gun, and EVERYONE is required to complete a 2 week (80 hr) firearms training program by the end of their 18th year. But that's just me. 

The second amendment did not originate out of fear. The purpose of the entire bill of rights, and for that matter the constitution, is to maintain our freedom. Freedom has a price, and it is high. It is our responsibility, our duty to confront those who would want to take our freedom, and send them back to the hell that they came from. When a person becomes a victim, often times they no longer live in freedom, they live in fear. 

There are several polite "unarmed" societies in this world which have a relatively low crime rate. I've been to a few of them, and I've met people from even more. I've noticed one thing about them all. The people are not driven. They have no competitive spirit about them. They are sheep. They are not known for producing gold medal athletes. They are not known for producing the best this, or that. They are not on the cutting edge of anything. To put forth extra effort in order to be the best you can be at something is somewhat of a foreign concept to them. That is not an accurate description of the US. As a whole, we are not sheep, we are shepherds. In societies like ours, there are always those who find it easier to break the rules in order to get what they want, and the burden for dealing with such people falls on WE THE PEOPLE, not our "king" (the government). When we decide that it is the governments responsibility to deal with these issues, we are no longer supporting the country our founding fathers established, rather we are supporting the exact type of government that they fought and died to free us from.


----------



## slowp (Aug 21, 2011)

dingeryote said:


> The topic was "Who carries while wood cutting". Immediately the twisted panty crowd showed up, to proclaim how wrong anyone was to do so. I reckon they have to reinforce thier own self image by such efforts.
> 
> LOL!!!
> Situational awareness, and maintaining the reactionary gap, leads to observing people closely.
> ...




Nonsense. Maybe I should live in Canada. Just because I do not feel the need to pack an extra how many pounds of dead weight around I am a sheep? Just because I do not feel threatened I am labeled a sheep? 
I would say the opposite is true. On this site, most folks do seem to feel threatened and band together pronouncing that they are truly the individuals who are most patriotic and wise. Since they are a majority, are not they the sheep on this site? 

I admire societies where one is safe and the people are happy. It takes self discipline to live that way--having respect for your neighbor and community. Kind of Christian like, no? :msp_sneaky:

I will not carry a gun around. If I HAVE to do that, this society has failed and I don't want to live here anymore. 

Feeling like one has to carry a handgun, which is the gun that is not much good for hunting, but is good for killing people, while cutting firewood? Something is just wrong there. Really wrong. If you are ascared of snakes, a shotgun is better. What the heck is somebody going to steal from you while you are woodcutting?
Your firewood? Is it that valuable? Here? I have not heard of anybody stealing firewood. It certainly isn't worth killing over.

I'm not advocating banning guns. However I'm not advocating the name calling of those of us who do not carry. We are not sheep. But if it makes you feel better to call us that, go ahead. I've been called worse. I won't pull a gun on you for doing so. I'll bet my part of the country is a heck of a lot more pleasant to live in than your little armed fortress. But don't move here. We don't need a lot of fearful folks moving here.


----------



## DSS (Aug 21, 2011)

fields_mj said:


> Me neither. However, to imply that the only motivation for carrying a weapon is fear, well that's just flat out incorrect. Do you wear a seat belt? Does your vehicle contain a spare tire? Do you own a fire extinguisher? Does your house have a smoke detector in it? On a daily basis, how afraid are you of a car wreck, flat tire, or a fire?
> 
> I know several people who have bought a firearm out of fear, and I've had a lot of people ask me over the years what kind of gun should I buy for protection. My answer has ALWAYS been, buy a shotgun, and that has NEVER been the answer they were looking for.
> 
> ...


 
I really don't know how to respond to this post, other than to say that it has to be the most incredibly stupid piece of literature I've ever read. You can't get it into your head that some of us don't live in fear our whole lives and don't need to carry around a gun to make us feel secure.

And because of that, we are sheep?? Any idiot can put a gun in his pocket and feel tough.

I'm done reading this thread. It belongs in the political forum now, if they have a horse chit section.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Aug 21, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> I suppose that the people who have responded to this thread fall into the following two camps:
> 
> A) Those that always carry weapons because the government is not trustworthy and/or everyone is a threat to assault them or steal their possessions, or;
> B) Those who do not view themselves as a perpetual target of violence or robbery and do not view the risk justifies a weapon.
> ...


 
Well I don't fall in either category. I fall in the category of I own a 42 acre farm that I don't live on and I've got hoodlums, crack heads, thugs or a full fledged nut job for all I know ripping the aluminum gutters off the house, stealing the copper (even tore the drywall off to get every last piece), kicked in all the doors on the house and out buildings, slashed the tires on a MF 185, spray painted graffiti on all the buildings, stole my deer stands, etc. etc. etc. It's not a once a year deal. Every week I go over there I notice something missing or damaged. I carry a gun every time I go hoping to catch the bastards. I have no idea if the guy is a common thief or there is more to him than that. I've only caught on person over there so far. He was riding a four wheeler right over the soy beans. He seen the gun on my hip, he nearly pissed himself and after a severe ass chewing I was confident I would never see him again. Now when it comes time to cut the gun stays in the truck. I wouldn't risk messing up a firearm while cutting. I prepare for the worst and expect the best in life, you just never know what you may encounter these days.


----------



## audible fart (Aug 21, 2011)

Art Vandelay said:


> Well I don't fall in either category. I fall in the category of I own a 42 acre farm that I don't live on and I've got hoodlums, crack heads, thugs or a full fledged nut job for all I know ripping the aluminum gutters off the house, stealing the copper (even tore the drywall off to get every last piece), kicked in all the doors on the house and out buildings, slashed the tires on a MF 185, spray painted graffiti on all the buildings, stole my deer stands, etc. etc. etc. It's not a once a year deal. Every week I go over there I notice something missing or damaged. I carry a gun every time I go hoping to catch the bastards. I have no idea if the guy is a common thief or there is more to him than that. I've only caught on person over there so far. He was riding a four wheeler right over the soy beans. He seen the gun on my hip, he nearly pissed himself and after a severe ass chewing I was confident I would never see him again. Now when it comes time to cut the gun stays in the truck. I wouldn't risk messing up a firearm while cutting. I prepare for the worst and expect the best in life, you just never know what you may encounter these days.


 
By the way, i got $336 for the copper.


----------



## mama (Aug 21, 2011)

I always bring something with me in the woods because me and my wife are the valuable equipment.


----------



## mizzou (Aug 21, 2011)

slowp said:


> If you are ascared of snakes, a shotgun is better.


 
Use cci shotshells in my 44mag, easier to carry.




Art Vandelay said:


> Well I don't fall in either category. I fall in the category of I own a 42 acre farm that I don't live on and I've got hoodlums, crack heads, thugs or a full fledged nut job for all I know ripping the aluminum gutters off the house, stealing the copper (even tore the drywall off to get every last piece), kicked in all the doors on the house and out buildings, slashed the tires on a MF 185, spray painted graffiti on all the buildings, stole my deer stands, etc. etc. etc. It's not a once a year deal. Every week I go over there I notice something missing or damaged. I carry a gun every time I go hoping to catch the bastards. I have no idea if the guy is a common thief or there is more to him than that. I've only caught on person over there so far. He was riding a four wheeler right over the soy beans. He seen the gun on my hip, he nearly pissed himself and after a severe ass chewing I was confident I would never see him again. Now when it comes time to cut the gun stays in the truck. I wouldn't risk messing up a firearm while cutting. I prepare for the worst and expect the best in life, you just never know what you may encounter these days.


 
When I'm cutting near where I live I don't feel the need to have a gun near me. When I'm cutting on my rental property, which is in Independence, better known as meth capitol of the world, I'm now considering carrying a weapon. It wont be concealed because I don't want the hassle of getting a permit, besides all of my handguns are bigger revolvers not easily concealed. So I don't believe I fit into any of the categories so far. As far as self protection, I like a loud dog, a 410 pump shotgun, and/or 24 inch peice of #500 xhhn copper wire inside the house. Dolmar 6400 in the woods.


----------



## slowp (Aug 21, 2011)

fields_mj said:


> Me neither. However, to imply that the only motivation for carrying a weapon is fear, well that's just flat out incorrect. Do you wear a seat belt? Does your vehicle contain a spare tire? Do you own a fire extinguisher? Does your house have a smoke detector in it? On a daily basis, how afraid are you of a car wreck, flat tire, or a fire?
> 
> I know several people who have bought a firearm out of fear, and I've had a lot of people ask me over the years what kind of gun should I buy for protection. My answer has ALWAYS been, buy a shotgun, and that has NEVER been the answer they were looking for.
> 
> ...



So, we must be forced to carry guns to defend ourselves from people who want to take away our freedon?
Think about that a while.

By the way, the Scandinavian countries kick our butts in the Winter Olympics. Look up the Nordic events.
Cross country skiing, which is one of the toughest sports there is. And those ones where you ski and shoot rifles. I don't think we've ever won a gold medal in that. The ski jumpers. We have a hard time in the Alpine skiing events too. Those pesky, contented "sheep" win.


----------



## freemind (Aug 21, 2011)

No wonder our country is swirlling the crapper.

If you excersize a god given right, codified in the constitution, you are a righ wing nut case. Do I have that about right?

As already pointed out, we have other tools at our disposal, should the need arise for them. Such as fire extingishers, spare tires, smoke detectors, seat belts, and we even buy INSURANCE for "just in case".

It is insanity to lead yourself to belive that since you live in a "nice" community, that people with evil intentions will never cross your path. 

If you are the type that doesn't want to arm yourself, as you are entitled to by our constitution, then by all means, remain disarmed. Who really cares? I won't feel the LEAST bit sorry for you when/if you get hurt or killed. You decide what is personally the right thing to do for YOURSELF and your family. 

Just keep your sorry paws off MY rights. I choose to arm myself. I choose to not allow myself or my family to become a victim of evil. Stop sticking your nose in MY life, and worry about yourselves. If you don't like the FACT that I have an inherant RIGHT to arm myself any old time I please, then YOU are free to pack your belongings and MOVE to another country that suits your liking.


----------



## fields_mj (Aug 21, 2011)

slowp said:


> So, we must be forced to carry guns to defend ourselves from people who want to take away our freedon?
> Think about that a while.


 
It depends on how badly those people want to take your freedom. No one should be forced to do anything other than to learn to safely and responsibly use the tools they have been given access too. There are plenty of ways to stand up to those who would do someone harm, and most of them don't require a gun of any sort, however in some circumstances it is required.


----------



## slowp (Aug 21, 2011)

OK, now a completely different question. What do you gun toters do to enlighten society about gun safety?
For me, the scariest things I've encountered are people out target shooting, who think there is nobody about in the woods despite the evidence of work going on nearby. They then start target shooting with no back stop (illegal here) even shooting where a road was in their line. Are you actively promoting gun safety?

This problem was even worse in Arizona where the woods were flat. Idiots were firing away with no thought to where their bullets would go. This was what made me nervous. Imagine going to work in a free fire zone. 

In some areas, we were not allowed to go out to work during hunting season, unless we worked in an open area. Do you identify what you are shooting at before pulling the trigger? Are you 100% sure of what you are about to shoot? 

Do you help folks to learn the rules? Do you stop and talk to armed folks who are unsafe? I sure did. 

Do you realize that you need a good backstop when target practicing? Scattered trees do not fit the bill. Do you even target shoot so you are fairly accurate? Or do you just hope you'll hit the bad man when you are frightened to death? 

I will tell you that the idiots with guns who have them because "it is their right to carry" are a bigger threat to gun owners than anything else. You ought to be out promoting gun safety rather than insulting those of us who don't share the same views on packing a gun around with us. 

That's it for me here.


----------



## audible fart (Aug 21, 2011)

slowp said:


> OK, now a completely different question. What do you gun toters do to enlighten society about gun safety?
> For me, the scariest things I've encountered are people out target shooting, who think there is nobody about in the woods despite the evidence of work going on nearby. They then start target shooting with no back stop (illegal here) even shooting where a road was in their line. Are you actively promoting gun safety?
> 
> This problem was even worse in Arizona where the woods were flat. Idiots were firing away with no thought to where their bullets would go. This was what made me nervous. Imagine going to work in a free fire zone.
> ...


 
Your immunity to logic combined with your ability to vote is far more dangerous than my gun.


----------



## freemind (Aug 21, 2011)

slowp said:


> OK, now a completely different question. What do you gun toters do to enlighten society about gun safety?
> For me, the scariest things I've encountered are people out target shooting, who think there is nobody about in the woods despite the evidence of work going on nearby. They then start target shooting with no back stop (illegal here) even shooting where a road was in their line. Are you actively promoting gun safety?
> 
> This problem was even worse in Arizona where the woods were flat. Idiots were firing away with no thought to where their bullets would go. This was what made me nervous. Imagine going to work in a free fire zone.
> ...


 
First off, I know more about safegun handling, hunting, and firearms in general, than you could ever absorb, most likely. Have I instructed people about safe firearm handling? Of course I have. 

The world is populated with idiots. No doubt about it.

However, you are becoming quite rediculous about this. 

There are over 80 million gun owners in America. Can you tell me how many firearm deaths a year happen, from people engaged in legal activities? You know, firearm deaths NOT commited by gang bangers and drug dealer types.
Can you now tell me how MANY people a year DIE from car realted fatalities? Or how about just isolating the drunk driver cases......

More people DIE each year from lighting strikes, than are killed in gun related incidents. 

Take your straw man arguements and pitch it in the spreader with the rest of the bullcrap arguement you have propped up, please.

If we are gonna have a discussion, lets discuss it with facts like adults. Can we refrain from the schoolyard imaginary "cootey" type arguements? K... Thanks.....


----------



## Kensterfly (Aug 21, 2011)

DSS said:


> Yes, to each their own, but I don't see why that scared you. I've never had a scare in my life that had anything to do with a gun. We just don't have them. I could drive for miles and miles without passing a house that contained a gun. It's unusual here to see any kind of gun. Anywhere.
> 
> The odd farmer might have a rifle, or a hunter with an old 12 gauge, but handguns? For protection? From what?
> 
> This is a very peaceful place. The most dangerous thing someone is liable to pull on you is a bic lighter. I'm not anti-gun. I believe anyone should be able to have all the guns, or anything else, that they want. I'm just glad I don't need one.



If my scariest neighbor was "Anne of Green Gables," I probably wouldn't own a handgun, either.


----------



## BMAVERICK (Aug 21, 2011)

Here in AZ, we no longer need a ccw permit to carry concealed. I personally have a ccw permit. I learned alot taking the class, and feel that they should teach the class, or something similar in high school. We also have open carry laws that allow citizens to open carry in 'most' places. You are always going to have nut jobs, even in Canada, that don't obey laws. I love the ability to defend myself, and my family if the need arises. Always be aware of your surroundings, always be alert, and always have the correct tool for the job at hand. A car is a convienience, and a driver's license is not a right. The right to be armed is a right. Far more deaths are caused by a law abiding citizen with a car, than with a gun.


----------



## camr (Aug 21, 2011)

shelbythedog said:


> I'm pretty sure that guy sold me my first pistol. I was hoping you would see this thread.


 
I'm sure he'd like to sell you a few more!


----------



## super3 (Aug 21, 2011)

slowp said:


> OK, now a completely different question. What do you gun toters do to enlighten society about gun safety?
> For me, the scariest things I've encountered are people out target shooting, who think there is nobody about in the woods despite the evidence of work going on nearby. They then start target shooting with no back stop (illegal here) even shooting where a road was in their line. Are you actively promoting gun safety?
> 
> This problem was even worse in Arizona where the woods were flat. Idiots were firing away with no thought to where their bullets would go. This was what made me nervous. Imagine going to work in a free fire zone.
> ...





Maybe you are catching flak because you come across as lumping all who carry into the same category as those who don't practice common sense while shooting like the ones you described above.
All who carry aren't a bunch of gung ho idiots just waiting to cap someones ass.


----------



## Moss Man (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't even carry a knive most of the time no less a firearm. I been 50 years without being attacked by much more than a couple bees, hopefully the next 20-30 years will be as uneventful. I'm not saying that it's a bad idea, just that I don't see it as being necessary. Don't be fooled, I ain't no city dweller, if I lived there I'd carry every day!


----------



## audible fart (Aug 21, 2011)

Moss Man said:


> Don't be fooled, I ain't no city dweller, if I lived there I'd carry every day!


 
That's a good plan, except it's either illegal to carry in a lot of cities, or impossible to get a permit like baltimore is. So that leaves you with a choice to make.:msp_wink:


----------



## Moss Man (Aug 21, 2011)

audible fart said:


> That's a good plan, except it's either illegal to carry in a lot of cities, or impossible to get a permit like baltimore is. So that leaves you with a choice to make.:msp_wink:


 
Believe me when I say I'd find a way to exist.


----------



## TreePointer (Aug 22, 2011)

Times do change. Thirty years ago, I wouldn't think of carrying when working on the farm. None of my family members ever felt threatened, and we saw no need for handguns.

Now suburbia has encroached, and more folks take curious drives, ATV rides, hikes, walks, etc. onto the farm. Most are harmless, but I know that at least a couple meth heads were up to no good. Eight years ago, there were two home invasions just two miles down the road. That's when "we" started locking our doors *all the time* and keeping our hunting rifles and shotguns nearby.


----------



## slowp (Aug 22, 2011)

freemind said:


> First off, I know more about safegun handling, hunting, and firearms in general, than you could ever absorb, most likely. Have I instructed people about safe firearm handling? Of course I have.
> 
> The world is populated with idiots. No doubt about it.
> 
> ...



Goodness, dear boy, you have committed the sin of thinking you can tell everything about a person from the internet. There's a lot of that going on. 

The difference between cars and guns is that cars were not designed for killing. Guns are. Now, do you target shoot? Are you safe in your gun handling? Or must I fear you when I go out for a walk in the woods? 

Cootie aguments? Nope. Just wondering and only one person has said he had training. Good for him. 
Now, how many of you can be sure to hit whatever you shoot at after you have been running a saw for a while?


----------



## zogger (Aug 22, 2011)

*Training*



slowp said:


> Goodness, dear boy, you have committed the sin of thinking you can tell everything about a person from the internet. There's a lot of that going on.
> 
> The difference between cars and guns is that cars were not designed for killing. Guns are. Now, do you target shoot? Are you safe in your gun handling? Or must I fear you when I go out for a walk in the woods?
> 
> ...



Just a wild guess on my part, but I would imagine a lot of guys here have had training. Both civilian organized (scouts, shooting/sportsman clubs, hunter safety courses, etc), gramps and pops teaching them when little, and in the service. About the same as discussing the proper use of any tools out there, including saws.


----------



## Somesawguy (Aug 22, 2011)

I'm a little surprised that this thread degraded as much as it did, but we have all kinds here. A firearm is a tool, and like any tool, it should be handled properly. A chainsaw can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands, but most people can and do learn to use it properly. The same can be said for firearms. 

I carry, but it's not because I'm paranoid or have a God complex. It's there like a screwdriver in case I need it. No one is responsible to protect me and my family except for me. The job of the police is not to protect, but to enforce the law where and when they can. They won't play bodyguard, and usually show up when everything is all said and done. 

It's my right to have access to a firearm, and I choose to exercise that right. If someone decides that they don't want to, that's their decision. The world is not all sunshine and roses. Anyone telling you otherwise is selling something. 

All that said, there are some idiots out there with guns, but so are those that drink and drive. 

That's my 2 cents. :msp_smile:


----------



## Rio_Grande (Aug 22, 2011)

From someone who carries a firearm for a living I can tell ya it isint for everyone nor should it be. I have a weapon within arms reach 24/7. There are definately days when I wish I diddnt, cause it is a huge responsability and not very convienent. Regardless It is a personal decision. I carry a glock 27 everywhere but in the woods where I keep a midsize 22 auto for critters and with the knowledge of how to use it can be used for protection as well. 

As far as society and the like, well I think it is smart to protect yourself because few others will. But it dosent require the possession of a a firearm to do that. In my case I have enough people spread out over a large enough area that i need to watch out for that I best keep one handy. LOL and I just realized I make more friends every day LOL.

Not everyone who carries a firearm is a reckless jerk however not everyone who carries a firearm is a responsable citizen. There are all kinds out there.


----------



## Sagetown (Aug 22, 2011)

As somesawguy said; firearms are a tool. Properly maintained, they're handy for countless circumstances. First time wading fishing, a snake took a liking to me. I flaied at him with my fishingrod to no avail. From then on I carried a .22 revolver loaded with rat shot. No more falling down, splashing, and losing equipment. Just calmly use the snake charmer, and go on about my fishing.


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 22, 2011)

What gets me is the number of contoversal responses this thread got, and not this one........

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=178307


----------



## ts39136 (Aug 22, 2011)

xdmp22 said:


> What gets me is the number of contoversal responses this thread got, and not this one........
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=178307




Cause the stock market hadn't crashed yet? :msp_angry: Just a guess. :smile2:


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 22, 2011)

I've had gun training beat into my head my entire life! Mom, Dad, hunter safety courses, 4H, CCW courses etc!
I've been in some tight spots without a gun, had three car loads of gang bangers chasing me one night, a case of mistaken identiy or so I was told later! Didn't matter to me!
Had a group of stupid, young rednecks try to bum rush me one night! The three Rounds I put over there heads didn't even phase them!
I've learned a gun is a great tool to have, but it's a terrible tool to have as well!


----------



## atvguns (Aug 22, 2011)

xdmp22 said:


> What gets me is the number of contoversal responses this thread got, and not this one........
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=178307


 must be cause it doesn't have CCW in the title


----------



## freemind (Aug 22, 2011)

slowp said:


> Goodness, dear boy, you have committed the sin of thinking you can tell everything about a person from the internet. There's a lot of that going on.
> 
> The difference between cars and guns is that cars were not designed for killing. Guns are. Now, do you target shoot? Are you safe in your gun handling? Or must I fear you when I go out for a walk in the woods?
> 
> ...



Excuse me while I :msp_lol:

I have had more training than most people. Goes far beyond hunters saftey. 

The only fear you should have of me, is if you have evil intent. If you do, I garuntee, you aren't safe within 1500 meters. :msp_wink:

You presume much, but know little. :msp_tongue:

Facts of the matter ARE, cars are MANY times more dangerous than guns. Do you also have an irrational fear of nuclear arms and power facilities? Seems a case of hoplophobia to me.


----------



## shelbythedog (Aug 23, 2011)

atvguns said:


> must be cause it doesn't have CCW in the title


 
+1. I never thought it would turn out like this, but many members have posted answers to the question I asked originally, and to those persons a big thank you!


----------



## Justsaws (Aug 23, 2011)

shelbythedog said:


> +1. I never thought it would turn out like this, but many members have posted answers to the question I asked originally, and to those persons a big thank you!


 
I have considered it but have not pursued a permit. I did not read the entirety of this thread but simply put, I never cared much for pistols so I really do not want to carry one.


----------



## deerlakejens (Aug 23, 2011)

Own plenty of guns and enjoy hunting and target shooting but can't come up with any reason to carry while cutting. I do usually have a saw in my truck when hunting, though, does that count?


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 23, 2011)

There sure is a ton of misconceptions in this thread… on both sides of the argument. One big one is the idea that those of us that carry live in some sort fear… which is so far from the truth as to be ridiculous.

It is not fear that drives most of us that carry, it’s a lifestyle decision. For many of us it’s the same as burning wood to heat our homes… although we give many reasons for burning wood, such as saving money, or we love being in the woods cutting… but in reality most of us burn because we like to be self-sufficient. My guess is that, like me, most of the rural dwellers here on the board also have a garden, can or freeze much of their own vegetables. Most probably shoot and/or raise and butcher much of their meat. Many have a portable generator ready to fire up when and if the power goes out. We own tools and welders, know how to use them, designing and building the things we need or want. We do our own plumbing and electrical repairs. We prefer to not have to rely on anyone for anything… and that includes not relying on government or law enforcement to protect us or our families.

I do not carry a gun because I fear something… Ya’ see, when the power goes out when it’s -30 outside, I don’t get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach because I heat with wood and have generator ready to supply my home, and water well with electricity. When a 5-day blizzard plugs the roads, making it impossible to get to the grocery store, I don’t have to be afraid I’ll run short of food for my family because I grow, gather and put-up my own food. If something breaks I don’t have to worry how long it will take for the “guy” to repair it, or what it will cost… because I have the tools and equipment to fix it myself. I don’t own my generator, tools and welder, or put-up my own food, because I fear something today… rather I own and do those things so that if something bad does happen I’m prepared, I won’t be afraid or worry then.

My wife and I don’t carry guns because we fear evil today… Rather we carry because we want to be prepared. We carry so if (heaven forbid) evil ever does come at us, or our children, we won’t have to be afraid then. It’s a simple lifestyle decision… we prefer to be self-sufficient and fully prepared in every aspect of our lives… and that includes taking responsibility for our own protection and defense. We prefer to not go to the grocery store, or call the plumber, carpenter, electrician, LP man… or the sheriff. Thanks, but no-thanks… we’ll take care of ourselves.


----------



## WidowMaker (Aug 23, 2011)

Justsaws said:


> I have considered it but have not pursued a permit. I did not read the entirety of this thread but simply put, I never cared much for pistols so I really do not want to carry one.



===

"Said I didn't care for'em, never said I didn't know how to use one"


----------



## mizzou (Aug 23, 2011)

Somesawguy said:


> I'm a little surprised that this thread degraded as much as it did, but we have all kinds here. A firearm is a tool, and like any tool, it should be handled properly. A chainsaw can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands, but most people can and do learn to use it properly. The same can be said for firearms. :


 
More people on this thread maybe?


----------



## howard270 (Aug 23, 2011)

I have C.L.E.E.T. training in firearms and have had my concealed carry license for 9 years now and have been around firearms since I was 5. When I carry I do not want anyone else to know that I have a weapon and I hope that noone else ever has to know. I have only had to draw a weapon 1 time in defense (I had just started as a prosecutor and was asked to join law enforcement on a drug search warrant and we were approached at a high rate of speed by a resident, in a vehicle on the sidewalk, who ignored multiple warnings by SWAT officers holding shotguns and AR 15s but as soon as they got in front of me to stop this person I re-holstered immediately).

I do not carry while cutting due to enough tools in my pockets and on my belt, but there is always a weapon in my pickup just a few feet away, sometimes a 22 rifle and sometimes a pistol of some sort. I have been chased by a rabid skunk and racoon while out knocking down trees in the past and did not like getting sprayed by the skunk while dispatching it with a log. That is why I have a firearm while cutting, not due to an irrational fear. 

Now, we have the wild pigs around here that have attacked a 12 year old on his atv (it was winter time and luckily only tore his carharts before being shot by the kid's dad), so I always carry a pistol when on my 4 wheeler checking cows or fence due to these animals. I prefer a rifle, but it is very inconvenient and slow for me to get into use when needed in these situations.


----------



## Richard Dupp (Aug 23, 2011)

All my neighbors, everyone in my neighborhood is armed. They don't flaunt it or display it, but they are. Riots and looting such as broke out in unarmed, peaceful England could never happen where I live, the folks would not dial 911, they would dial 9mm. Before it could get started, it would be ended. When out cutting or splitting wood on our farm, I carry .22 semi-auto with ratshot in it as a snake charmer. I have never had to carry anything more than that, thankfully. Not saying I wouldn't, just saying I have never had to.


----------



## war-wagon (Aug 23, 2011)

I've got 5 words for you......"from my cold dead hands". enough said


----------



## hydro2 (Aug 24, 2011)

Yes I always carry while cutting!


----------



## Misfit138 (Aug 24, 2011)

PA. Woodsman said:


> I understand what you are saying, but no I don't carry a gun while cutting wood-I don't even own a gun. I've found that not too many people or animals unless they are wild or rabid tend to mess with a guy with a chainsaw! :biggrin:


 
Hehe. I must agree.
I am originally from Jersey, and my relationship with guns seems very different than most of the members here. Jersey has very strict gun laws. You don't want to have a gun on you if you get arrested in New Jersey, because you _will_ automatically go to prison.
When I lived in Texas, it was quite a culture shock to see people with guns strapped to their hip constantly. I made a fast friend there who actually gave me a Ruger P85 as a gift. I felt pressured to take it at first, but gave it back to him after a day. (No, I didn't rob a liquor store with it before giving it back).
I got my first gun when I was 10, a Remington Nylon 66. My dad always had a assortment of pistols and rifles, including a S&W .44 magnum, .38 special, and a Beretta...so I grew up shooting and handling them. I just don't have a 'vulnerable' feeling walking around without one. On the contrary, actually, I feel much safer and comfortable by not owning or carrying guns.
Besides that, my dogs have very territorial and protective instincts.


----------



## h20addict (Aug 25, 2011)

Considering there's a hog problem up at our property I don't head into the woods without my Glock 23 on my side, thats only if I'm going cutting. If I'm hiking our fence line then usually sling my AR15 instead.


----------



## slowp (Aug 25, 2011)

audible fart said:


> You read some of this crap and it's pretty obvious how we ended up with this detached malevolent guy in the white house. Oh, the constitution is so old and outdated. I like how obama just follows the rules he likes and disregards the rest way better.



I guess it was when I read the above, that my dander got up. Sorry, but crap like that puts me in foul mood. I went back through and read more carefully, it was well answered by most. 

Please don't reply to this with the usual insults. We've already heard them. 

I apologize for being bad, but I too, have a temper. That's a good reason not to carry a gun around. 
I'd probably shoot the saw. I have seen a lot of folks around who barely know which end that the bullet comes out of. Like the idiots who have to stop and shoot an abandoned car. Or signs, or in AZ there was what was once a nice sized pine, shot so many times it had to be cut down as it was about to topple. Maybe it would have hit a tree shooter...Karma. 

By the way, if you want to know when somebody is around, take a dog with you. Mine will come over and sit by me if folks approach. That was enough to make the religious whacko zealot who started yelling at me that I was going to hell, one time, from repeating his tirade. Just a quiet dog sitting--no growling--no barking, made the whacko leave and I could get back to work. Pre-dog, I packed up my gear and left. 

A logger had a little rat dog that rode in the back window of his feller buncher. That little dog always would yap when somebody was nearby.

And, I too, have been shooting since age 10. So, I'm not too unfamiliar with what we're talking about.


----------



## Guido Salvage (Aug 25, 2011)

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many people espousing their "rights" have ever taken the time to read the Constitution in its entirety? Do you know what it says, how it was developed and how it impacts you and society? Can you name any amendment (other than the Second), describe the process for amending the Constitution or even know how many amendments there are?

Membership in the NRA does not make one a constitutional law expert...

For those that may want to expand their field of knowledge this is a short primer:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html

For a more in depth account, read David Stewart's The Summer of 1787.


----------



## logbutcher (Aug 25, 2011)

*Live AND learn boys and girl. Flame when ready. :eek2:

Too many of you thimk (yes, "thimk") that all you need is a sidearm and attitude. For some, training is a dirt word.

So, some advice from experience, both mil and civilian:

1. Shooting is not macho, or intuitive.

2. Learn by doing: take an authorized course ( survival shooting for example) that will teach you ( yes, "teach you" ) how to use a weapon effectively.
Sub rule #1: The weapon is taken out to kill. Period.
Sub rule #2: You don't practice, don't carry.

3. For most of you boasting about carrying, read some about how mil ops train. Live rounds, in critical conditions, without emotion. Hey you, you got anger, don't carry. The training is as real world as possible, daily, for thousands of rounds, in conditions miming what you WILL encounter. Look up how many thousands of hours Team Six trained.

I have weapons, I choose NOT to carry. What's all this about carrying in the woods ? Whew. I'm there to cut. 

Your sidearm or long gun is to kill. Learn how.

BTW: NO ONE I know in mil, law enforcement, or civilian EVER brags about carrying. Never.

And you big bores ( :hmm3grin2orange: ): the 1911, or 45 is a useful as male tits. They went out decades ago in any serious use.

JMNSHO *


----------



## cheeves (Aug 25, 2011)

shelbythedog said:


> I like to carry a pistol as much as possible, both to express my rights as well as protect myself, my property, and those around me. Certainly dragging around a few thousand dollars worth of saws, splitter, firewood, etc., after a long day of harvesting my most beloved natural resource would be a time I would like to have my pistol on my person. I think most would agree that having your gun in the truck is better than at home in the safe, but there is no better place than on your body, ready to draw, if necessary. If I were selling and delivering firewood you can bet I would be carrying since most transactions deal in cash and are with unknowns. What say you members of AS, anyone else feel the need to be strapped when firewooding?


I completly agree with you. I carried a .38 in Ohio but after I came back here to the land "of afraid of guns" I had to switch back to my shotgun. I have it behind my seat in my truck and I would't leave home without it!! Ever since I got robbed at knife pt. years ago I have believed in personal protection. My father was in Patton's 3rd Army and he taught me how to shoot when I was 5 years old. Back when this State was American! Thanks


----------



## freemind (Aug 25, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> Out of curiosity, I wonder how many people espousing their "rights" have ever taken the time to read the Constitution in its entirety? Do you know what it says, how it was developed and how it impacts you and society? Can you name any amendment (other than the Second), describe the process for amending the Constitution or even know how many amendments there are?
> 
> Membership in the NRA does not make one a constitutional law expert...
> 
> ...


 
Well fella, if YOU knew what the constitution SAID and all that happy jazz, you would not be pointing out that OTHERS should learn what it says. 

Does YOUR dictionary define "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" differently than mine?

You also realize that CONGRESS is to coin money. Right? You realize that POS Hamilton was the one pushing for a central bank too, right? You realize too then that the "Federal Reserve" is unconstitutional too right?

But wait, you have time to rail against people because they choose to excersize the right to carry, right? :msp_unsure:


----------



## promac850 (Aug 25, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> *Live AND learn boys and girl. Flame when ready. :eek2:
> 
> Too many of you thimk (yes, "thimk") that all you need is a sidearm and attitude. For some, training is a dirt word.
> 
> ...


 
All of that is correct... (except the last sentence... that's BS) those who carry do not openly brag and show everyone. It's kept in the holster, unless they're training, or resolving a situation. Hope your choice to not carry doesn't end up haunting you for the rest of your life. 

Well placed shots are critical.

The 1911 is the best damn handgun ever made. John M. Browning was a genius. The Browning High Power also is one of the best, and the last gun he ever designed... the design was completed by FN Herstal, which it then was promptly put it into production. Both of them are some of the longest lived military sidearms ever made. Many, if not all Belgian police forces still carry them on duty every day. Many European countries employ the High Power in their police and military forces as well.

I think it was very stupid of the US military to go with an inferior and weak 9mm Beretta 92FS... it's a piece of crap compared to a real 1911. .45 will always hit harder than a 9mm... just like with engines, there is no replacement for displacement... that .45 will displace more than a 9mm will. Not to mention the stopping power. 

If you read articles about soldiers' opinions on the Beretta over in the sandbox, you'll read that most, if not all of them hate the gun. It doesn't stop until 4-5 rounds have been sent into the insurgent. The .45 reviewers, however, praise it highly, it drops the most drugged up insurgent with far fewer shots than the 9mm, usually one does the job.

For 9mm... I'd take a High Power over a 92... the High Power is superior in every respect. Accurate, reliable, and very easy to field strip. 

Yep, if you pull the gun, be ready to kill. Hopefully that will never be necessary, but it's definitely better to be safe than sorry. 

Those that don't believe in carrying are irresponsible of their own well being, not to mention their loved ones. What would you do if you took your wife out to dinner, and some fresh out of prison rapist thinks your wife is his for the taking. Would you rather you be able to potentially defuse the situation and be able to apply deadly force if needed, or would you want to watch her get raped or taken off to somewhere else. Actually, you'd probably be knocked out cold or dead if he decides to take off with her. At that point, I'd hope your wife carries. 

Again, it's simply irresponsible to not be a part of the Second Amendment... it is there for you to protect you and your loved ones from criminals, overly oppressive government, supply food by hunting, etc. 

Either you're irresponsible or you're just too stupid to realize that guns don't kill people, and that you should show your support to the Second Amendment.

Think of it as an extension to your health insurance. It may prevent you from ending up at the hospital, bleeding from every orifice after a violent mugging, it may save your live, or the lives of loved ones, or even the lives of complete strangers that would've been killed in a hold up, etc.

_"You can pry them from my cold, dead hands." _ Those that carry and those that belong to the NRA know what I'm talking about.

The NRA is here to protect the Second Amendment via member subscriptions and donations, not to glorify guns or make a lawyer out of everyone. It appears some of you don't know a damn thing about the NRA or guns or why you should have one.

The machine gun ban, and many other amendments that have been made to the constitution infringe upon our Right To Bear Arms. The NRA, and others, are working hard to remove stupid laws on guns, either in individual states' laws or even the federal laws.

About carrying in the woods... you never know when some rabid critter decides you're making too much noise and it attacks you. Do you want to be able to kill it and save your ass, or do you want your family to find you in the woods, injured, passed out, or worse... dead? Think about it. 

Your guardian angel can't be there for you every time something happens... you should've learned that by now. Sometimes, you will have to be your own guardian angel, or maybe someone else's guardian angel. #### happens every day, and it's solely _your_ choice whether you want to be a statistic in an investigation file, or be a survivor.

Expect the unexpected, expect the worst... being prepared for a scenario is a good idea. 

Yes, I am a die hard right winger that believes in everything the Founding Fathers meant in the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence. It's a shame how ####ed up this country has become due to those that are ignorant, selfish, and devoid of common sense. 

If you don't like my post and think I need advice to not carry, I don't give a ####. Shove it up your ass for all I care. I know I can control my anger, a gun nor knife would ever appear out of anger.


Enough said. Soapbox put back in cupboard.


----------



## shelbythedog (Aug 26, 2011)

I had to go out of my way for work this afternoon, and it happened to take me within a few miles of arguably the best gun shop in my area. I stopped in, searching for an IWB holster for my .380 because pocket carrying is starting to bug me. I bought a DeSantis at the counter guy's recommendation and then proceeded to insist he let me fondle a few S&W .38's and a Ruger LCR. Anyway, I arrived home and was faced with the task of cutting the grass. I loaded up the new holster and headed out for the ZTR. The IWB holster was hardly noticeable and easily concealed under a ####ie's button-down work shirt. I did several other chores, keeping the gun on my hip all night. It definitely isn't a .45, but the compactness sure is great for carry during this type of outdoor work, running to town, conducting cash business, etc.


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 26, 2011)

shelbythedog said:


> I had to go out of my way for work this afternoon, and it happened to take me within a few miles of arguably the best gun shop in my area. I stopped in, searching for an IWB holster for my .380 because pocket carrying is starting to bug me. I bought a DeSantis at the counter guy's recommendation and then proceeded to insist he let me fondle a few S&W .38's and a Ruger LCR. Anyway, I arrived home and was faced with the task of cutting the grass. I loaded up the new holster and headed out for the ZTR. The IWB holster was hardly noticeable and easily concealed under a ####ie's button-down work shirt. I did several other chores, keeping the gun on my hip all night. It definitely isn't a .45, but the compactness sure is great for carry during this type of outdoor work, running to town, conducting cash business, etc.


 
DeSantis makes a good holster....I have never found anything better than my crossbreed supertuck, but I am glad you found something that works for you


----------



## Hddnis (Aug 26, 2011)

At the end of the day everybody that is free to argue against carrying a gun enjoys that privilege at the expense of those who do carry guns. 

Good men (and women) protect themselves and others. Often the others take this for granted, soon they start thinking the safety they enjoy stems from some magical fountain of love and flowers. At some level they are aware there is ugliness and violence and evil, but instead of accepting this they try to disarm and blame the good people that protect them! 



Mr. HE


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 26, 2011)

More misconceptions…

First of all *Guido*, it’s a fact that American gun owners, as a group (especially those that carry and/or members of the NRA), know more about the Constitution, it’s history, writing and ratification than most any other group in this country… and sadly, that includes members of congress. Yes, I’ve read it and studied its history… I own two printed copies of it that include all the amendments, one full size and one pocket size. I venomously defend it, all of it, not just the second amendment. I defend your right to choose not to go armed with the same vigilance that I defend the choice of others to go armed. It was not the Boston Tea Party that started the War Of Independence as many of us were taught in grade school, but rather the ignition of the war came when the British tried to disarm the colonists… the tradition of “owning and bearing” personal arms is deeply rooted in the very core of this countries beginnings. The “owning and bearing” of personal arms is what made this country what it is, it is what allowed the expansion westward and defended this country in it’s earliest conflicts… to infringe upon the rights guaranteed by the second amendment is akin to burning the constitution. No other individual right protected by the Constitution or Bill Of Rights has played anywhere close to the role of making us what we are… and there are the facts.

And now I’ll go ahead and flame *logbutcher*… after all he did say, “_Flame when ready_”.
First, I’ve read very little boasting or bragging in this thread… a question was asked and answered, and answers (both sides) have been defended when attacked. Yours is typical of those who have been mass-trained by the military or law enforcement. Although that type of training is usually good for preparing the mental attitude, and teaching tactics, it does very little in the way of teaching marksmanship or “effective” use of a firearm. I’ve taught many people to hit tiny targets at ranges deemed impossible by them before, and by far the people with that sort of training history are the most difficult to teach… the refuse to give up the poor mechanics that type of training instills. And if, “_the 1911, or 45 is a useful as male tits_”, why is it that many of the special-ops type military groups, and law enforcement tactical type groups have gone back to the .45? If, as you say, “_They went out decades ago in any serious use._”, does that mean those groups have no serious use for a weapon?


----------



## Guido Salvage (Aug 26, 2011)

freemind said:


> Well fella, if YOU knew what the constitution SAID and all that happy jazz, you would not be pointing out that OTHERS should learn what it says.
> 
> Does YOUR dictionary define "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" differently than mine?
> 
> ...



I think I have a fair grasp on what it says. I anyone finds the government and laws of this country to be unfair or oppressive, they always have the option of relocating. I do not see a mass exodus, but if someone is compelled to leave perhaps they should select a truly lawless country where they need to use their weapon daily in order to survive.


----------



## logbutcher (Aug 26, 2011)

promac610 said:


> All of that is correct... (except the last sentence... that's BS) those who carry do not openly brag and show everyone. It's kept in the holster, unless they're training, or resolving a situation. Hope your choice to not carry doesn't end up haunting you for the rest of your life.
> 
> Well placed shots are critical.
> 
> ...



I'll leave the politics of carrying to the political ones.

If you can hole a target as accurately with a 45 as a 9mm, use it as fast, carry the extra weight into a *real situation*, you're correct. However, it is doubtful. Smaller calibers in quality sidearms do the job better. Ask those who have used both in real world situations, and look into ( research without the political BS ) which units use 9mm and similar caliber weapons. 
So, from 25m, what can anyone hit with a 45 *IN A 'SITUATION*' ?

And, BTW, it would hurt more to "...shove a 45 up your ass " than a 9mm. opcorn: Let's watch. Hey what kind of thimking is that ? 

JMNSHO


----------



## Art Vandelay (Aug 26, 2011)

promac610 said:


> All of that is correct... (except the last sentence... that's BS) those who carry do not openly brag and show everyone. It's kept in the holster, unless they're training, or resolving a situation. Hope your choice to not carry doesn't end up haunting you for the rest of your life.
> 
> Well placed shots are critical.
> 
> ...


 
I doubt the switch from the 45 to the 9mm had anything to do with which gun was better or powerful and had everything to do with the continuing rise in cost of ammunition. I can only imagine how much ammo the military goes through in a years time.


----------



## Somesawguy (Aug 26, 2011)

Art Vandelay said:


> I doubt the switch from the 45 to the 9mm had anything to do with which gun was better or powerful and had everything to do with the continuing rise in cost of ammunition. I can only imagine how much ammo the military goes through in a years time.


 
The switch was made to use NATO ammunition which was what most of Europe was using at the time.


----------



## cheeves (Aug 26, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> More misconceptions…
> 
> First of all *Guido*, it’s a fact that American gun owners, as a group (especially those that carry and/or members of the NRA), know more about the Constitution, it’s history, writing and ratification than most any other group in this country… and sadly, that includes members of congress. Yes, I’ve read it and studied its history… I own two printed copies of it that include all the amendments, one full size and one pocket size. I venomously defend it, all of it, not just the second amendment. I defend your right to choose not to go armed with the same vigilance that I defend the choice of others to go armed. It was not the Boston Tea Party that started the War Of Independence as many of us were taught in grade school, but rather the ignition of the war came when the British tried to disarm the colonists… the tradition of “owning and bearing” personal arms is deeply rooted in the very core of this countries beginnings. The “owning and bearing” of personal arms is what made this country what it is, it is what allowed the expansion westward and defended this country in it’s earliest conflicts… to infringe upon the rights guaranteed by the second amendment is akin to burning the constitution. No other individual right protected by the Constitution or Bill Of Rights has played anywhere close to the role of making us what we are… and there are the facts.
> 
> ...


A friend of mine just got out of the SEALS. His sidearm was a H&K .45!


----------



## BMAVERICK (Aug 26, 2011)

For the time being we have decided to close the Political Forum. This is due to many of you abusing other members to the point where we feel like we could be losing clientele and good members. It is one thing to have an opinion but it is another thing to berate someone because they don't agree with your opinion. Also, when you joined the political forum it was stated that the forum would not be moderated yet all day long we continue to get reported posts. If in time it looks like that majority wants it back we will consider it but we will change the password and block those that have proven in the past to not be able to keep their emotions in line. I don't want to see any posts where you are asking "where did it go" or complaining that it's gone. Those will result in a 5 point infraction. If you want to discuss it with us please email us at [email protected]
:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## CrappieKeith (Aug 26, 2011)

I can't believe I just read this whole thread.....:bang:

to the original poster...carrying in the woods...right on.

I've only got a few things to say. Here in Mn. if you shoot someone you had better fear for your life.
If you pull a gun you'd better use it and in area's of the US were hand guns are the norm crime is down.

I support gun ownership.
I support fully armed militias.
...and I am most appreciative of those that fight for our rights as per the Constitution of these United States.


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 26, 2011)

Holy Crap *CrappieKeith*, all eleven pages... eleven pages of the same ol' argument that's been raging for the last few decades.
If I hadn't started following this thread on the day of the original post, and had to start from the beginning today, I'd have clicked away somewhere around mid-third page. You have more fortitude than me my friend.

I'll never forget an experience I had in northern(ish) Minnesota one time several years ago. I was on my way up to the family lake home in the Backus/Pine River/Longville area and had stopped late at one of those back-woods Bar & Grill/Bait Shop/Gas Pump type places for a beer. The bartender was a big burly biker type... he handed me a beer and told me to drink up 'cause he was getting ready to close. So, about half way through my beer, three drunken local types come waltzing in wanting beers. The bartender tells 'em he's already counted down the till and he's done serving for the night. A bit of an argument breaks out, with the tree drunks insisting he'll serve 'em or they'll bust his head open (or some such). Next thing I know the bartender slams what appears to be a 4-inch S&W 686 .357 Magnum on the bar and tells the tree drunks they've got 10 seconds to hit the door (beer is now coming out my nose). Not more than 2 seconds later all three of those drunken locals had pulled their own handguns and slammed them on the bar (and I'm no longer looking to see what make/model they are). So while the four of them are staring down, I calmly set my beer on the bar, get up from the stool and start backing my way towards the door as I placed my hand on the butt of my own pistol. It was like 4, maybe 5, backwards steps for me to reach the door, but it felt like I was never gonna' get there. Just as I get to the door all four of 'em break out laughing... those a$$ holes were just havin' fun with the tourist.

So anyway, they offer to buy me a beer, which I accepted. The five of us are sittin' there drinking the beer, and their still giggling about the practical joke they'd just pulled on me. I just couldn't resist... right smack in the middle of their giggling, and as I was drinking from the bottle, I slowly un-holstered my pistol and laid it on the bar... We had about 15-20 seconds of dead silence in the bar that night.


----------



## BMAVERICK (Aug 26, 2011)

would have been even funnier if you'd have pulled out a badge!


----------



## Hddnis (Aug 26, 2011)

BMAVERICK said:


> would have been even funnier if you'd have pulled out a badge!




Yeah, maybe.

He did the right thing, but that story could have turned out way worse. I'm guessing the long silence at the end was those guys realizing that.



Mr. HE


----------



## olyman (Aug 26, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> More misconceptions…
> 
> First of all *Guido*, it’s a fact that American gun owners, as a group (especially those that carry and/or members of the NRA), know more about the Constitution, it’s history, writing and ratification than most any other group in this country… and sadly, that includes members of congress. Yes, I’ve read it and studied its history… I own two printed copies of it that include all the amendments, one full size and one pocket size. I venomously defend it, all of it, not just the second amendment. I defend your right to choose not to go armed with the same vigilance that I defend the choice of others to go armed. It was not the Boston Tea Party that started the War Of Independence as many of us were taught in grade school, but rather the ignition of the war came when the British tried to disarm the colonists… the tradition of “owning and bearing” personal arms is deeply rooted in the very core of this countries beginnings. The “owning and bearing” of personal arms is what made this country what it is, it is what allowed the expansion westward and defended this country in it’s earliest conflicts… to infringe upon the rights guaranteed by the second amendment is akin to burning the constitution. No other individual right protected by the Constitution or Bill Of Rights has played anywhere close to the role of making us what we are… and there are the facts.
> 
> ...


 
ppzzzzzzingg,,winner!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## olyman (Aug 26, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> I think I have a fair grasp on what it says. I anyone finds the government and laws of this country to be unfair or oppressive, they always have the option of relocating. I do not see a mass exodus, but if someone is compelled to leave perhaps they should select a truly lawless country where they need to use their weapon daily in order to survive.


 
including laws that should have never got on the books,,like calis gun laws????? talk about infringement of rights....


----------



## deerlakejens (Aug 26, 2011)

Why is it that I hear the Village People singing "Macho Man" when I read this thread?


----------



## brncreeper (Aug 26, 2011)

deerlakejens said:


> Why is it that I hear the Village People singing "Macho Man" when I read this thread?


 
uuuuum, because you don't guns and you're a homo?


----------



## logbutcher (Aug 26, 2011)

cheeves said:


> A friend of mine just got out of the SEALS. His sidearm was a H&K .45!



REALLY now ? Try again with this. Get straight info first. Hk perhaps, never HK 45 in any S.O.:biggrin:
Will all those who can hit the side of a barn with a 45 kindly raise their hands ..........now. Damn, by the time you get that bag of iron out of your pants, the bad guys have you between the crotch; or, maybe somewhere that hurts.
45's were for the staff fools who never ever pulled a weapon.
....there is this bridge for sale Cheeves..........................:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## MNGuns (Aug 26, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> REALLY now ? Try again with this. Get straight info first. Hk perhaps, never HK 45 in any S.O.:biggrin:
> Will all those who can hit the side of a barn with a 45 kindly raise their hands ..........now. Damn, by the time you get that bag of iron out of your pants, the bad guys have you between the crotch; or, maybe somewhere that hurts.
> 45's were for the staff fools who never ever pulled a weapon.
> ....there is this bridge for sale Cheeves..........................:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



You're cracked....pick a round, and lets go shoot plates. I'd be willing to bet my .45 will "humble" you if nothing more..........:msp_thumbup:


ETA...And let's not forget my bag of irons in .38 Super, or perhaps 9mm, or even 10mm.....your logic is a bit silly, at least in my opinion...


----------



## promac850 (Aug 26, 2011)

I'll go with you MNGuns... pre war 1911 that belongs to a buddy of mine... I can shoot good with it. It wouldn't be hard to draw. A Desert Eagle in .50 AE would be...

Then again, I will also challenge him again, when I get a Desert Eagle in .44 Magnum... suck on that. If I don't get the sights on target, I can still beat the #### out of it with 4+ pounds of heavy metal... there are fairly sharp edges on them things too...


----------



## Somesawguy (Aug 26, 2011)

I will have to say that I am much better than minute of barn door with my 1911. Those that can't shoot don't practice enough. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 26, 2011)

*logbutcher*-
Man you better be checking your facts before you post... your credibility is falling into the toilet.
The HK .45 is in fact being used by special ops.


----------



## stihl sawing (Aug 26, 2011)

I usually have this in the front seat when i go in the woods to cut. I take the scope off too.

An older Armalite.


----------



## Sagetown (Aug 26, 2011)

Nice little varmiteer.


----------



## freemind (Aug 27, 2011)

Guido Salvage said:


> I think I have a fair grasp on what it says. I anyone finds the government and laws of this country to be unfair or oppressive, they always have the option of relocating. I do not see a mass exodus, but if someone is compelled to leave perhaps they should select a truly lawless country where they need to use their weapon daily in order to survive.



Then again maybe you DON'T have a grasp at what it says....

Like the bible, or many other things, you either belive in ALL of it, or you just don't really belive. 

You don't get to pick and choose what you want to support. You either support EVERY word of it, or you support none of it.


In order for the government to nulify our right to bear arms, an amendment MUST be passed to nulify the second amendment. Since one has NEVER been passed, ALL laws resticting the ownership/possetion of arms are NULL AND VOID. 


And if you belive that tripe about moving to another country so as to justify carrying arms all the time, maybe YOU need to crawl from under that rock, in which you live under. OUR country is bad enough. 

Maybe instead of suggesting a mass exodus, perhaps we should just follow the supreme law of the land. You know, the CONSTITUTION. Maybe you should read it sometime and take the time to understand it.


----------



## deerlakejens (Aug 27, 2011)

brncreeper said:


> uuuuum, because you don't guns and you're a homo?


 
That's just about as accurate as the rest of your statements. Actually, I have a nice Browning safe full of guns, from my pre-'64 model 70's, Superposed and A5's to a few handguns. I've hunted every year since I was 12. Have to say I prefer my muzzleloader these days for big game so I'm not out during the same season as the rest of you yahoos who have to shoot up the countryside to prove your manliness. A homo? Wow, I haven't heard anybody use that term since junior high. Try a little harder next time, it won't hurt that much.


----------



## deerlakejens (Aug 27, 2011)

freemind said:


> Then again maybe you DON'T have a grasp at what it says....
> 
> Like the bible, or many other things, you either belive in ALL of it, or you just don't really belive.
> 
> ...



So you really think its an abomination to eat shellfish, as is stated clearly in the bible?


----------



## logbutcher (Aug 27, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> *logbutcher*-
> Man you better be checking your facts before you post... your credibility is falling into the toilet.
> The HK .45 is in fact being used by special ops.



There you go again with the "ass" thing. Referrals for OCD may be possible. 

As to credibility, well you need to do some serious research on S.O. Now. In fact, 45's have not been used for years: too bulky, too much movement on firing, no need for the size with development of damage ammo in better faster to use smaller calibers.

All who know, kindly raise your hands.:taped:

Apologies accepted.:jester:

SWMBO does say the same about my cred....but not into your toilet.

P.S. WTF #1 : is all this "mine is bigger than yours" fool stuff? 
WTF #2: No one I know or served with who carrys or owns EVER brags or shows what they have.....NEVER. No need.


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 27, 2011)

I have had logbotcher on ignore for quite some time, his opinions are worthless, his additude sucks, a generally piss poor type of person.


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 27, 2011)

Think again *logbutcher*,
The .45 ACP is alive and well in the special ops community.



> _*"Delta Force adopted the M1911a1 as it was the standard Army firearm at the time and it suited their needs. The stopping power of the .45 ACP round was thought to be superior to the 9mm rounds fired by more modern pistols. Early Delta counter terrorism teams used the the M3A1 Grease Gun, which was also chambered in .45 ACP and so could share ammunition between the two weapons.
> It is believed that Delta gunsmiths modify the M1911a1, adding various improvements such as sights, grips, triggers and extended / double-stacked magazines.
> Although Delta is thought to also use other pistols such as Glock 17s / 21s, the Colt M119a1 is still a popular item in the Delta armory."*_





> _*"The MEU(SOC) pistol is a modified 1911 .45 ACP pistol developed for USMC special operations units such as Force Recon and MARSOC. USMC Force Recon units have been using the pistol since 1985."*_





> _*"Used by US Navy SEALs, including SEAL Team 6 (DEVGRU), the HK45C (compact)/ HK45CT (compact tactical) is a compact pistol chambered in .45 ACP. The HK45CT features high profile front and rear sights and an extended threaded barrel which allows supressors to be fitted. The pistols are fed by 8 round magazines with the option of using extended magazines with a capacity of 10 rounds.
> Naval Special Warfare Command reportedly ordered a number of LGD-645 infrared laser sights which fit over the trigger guards and attach to the MIL-STD-1913 (Picatinny) rail moulded into the pistol's polymer frame dust cover. The rail can also mount other accessories such as different laser pointers and white lights."*_





> _*"Delta Force have reportedly been known to use the Glock 22, a full-size pistol chambered in .40 S&W. Delta have a history of preferring .45s such as the venerable 1911, however it's rumored that some operators switched to Glock 22s as they were deemed more reliable in the sandy conditions the unit tends to operate in these days. The Glock 22 has a magazine capacity of 15+1."*_


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 27, 2011)

The MEU(SOC) pistol, officially designated the M-45 MEUSOC[5], is a magazine-fed, recoil-operated, single-action, semiautomatic pistol chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge. It is based on the original M1911 design by John Browning, *and has been the standard-issue side arm for the Force Recon Element of the United States Marine Corps' Marine Expeditionary Units from 1985 to today.* Its National Stock Number is 1005-01-370-7353.

The Heckler & Koch MK23 Mod 0 is a handgun consisting of a match grade semi-automatic pistol, a laser aiming module (LAM), and suppressor. *It was adopted by the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) for special operations units in the 1990s.*
While the designation applies to the complete system, it's also commonly used in reference to the pistol component itself. The pistol itself, chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge, was developed by Heckler & Koch, and was selected over the Colt OHWS through USSOCOM's Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) program. The LAM and suppressor were developed by Insight Technology and Knight's Armament Company (KAC), respectively.

The Heckler & Koch HK45 (Heckler & Koch, .45 ACP) is a semi-automatic pistol designed by the German arms manufacturer Heckler & Koch.
Heckler & Koch also manufactures the HK45 Compact (HK45C), which has an 8 round magazine. The HK45C features the same improvements as the full-size HK45, but has a more conventional straight grip similar to Heckler & Koch's P2000. This design still allows the user to customize the grip size via interchangeable backstraps.
*HK45C adopted by the United States Naval Special Warfare Command in September 2010.*

Many military and law enforcement organizations in the United States and other countries continue to use (often modified) M1911A1 pistols including *Marine Corps Special Operations Command, Los Angeles Police Department S.W.A.T. and L.A.P.D. S.I.S., the FBI Hostage Rescue Team, F.B.I. regional S.W.A.T. teams, and 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment—Delta (Delta Force).* The Tacoma, Washington Police Department selected the Kimber Pro Carry II or Pro Carry II HD as optional, department supplied weapons available to its officers.



*I do believe the toilet just flushed.*
A simple Google search will bring up more information than you can read in a week... it ain't difficult to find creditably referenced material.


----------



## CTYank (Aug 27, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> REALLY now ? Try again with this. Get straight info first. Hk perhaps, never HK 45 in any S.O.:biggrin:
> Will all those who can hit the side of a barn with a 45 kindly raise their hands ..........now. Damn, by the time you get that bag of iron out of your pants, the bad guys have you between the crotch; or, maybe somewhere that hurts.
> 45's were for the staff fools who never ever pulled a weapon.
> ....there is this bridge for sale Cheeves..........................:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


 
I can (hit the side of a barn with a .45). Multiple-time USN "Expert" qualification. With NO interim practice. No biggie.
Folks in the field prefer, I'm told, the old Browning .45 over the NATO-standard 9 mm, because of its stopping power. Maybe you didn't hear the story about why and how the M1911 was developed, for Huks.
Retracts hand. I thought ignorance was bliss.


----------



## stihl sawing (Aug 27, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> REALLY now ? Try again with this. Get straight info first. Hk perhaps, never HK 45 in any S.O.:biggrin:
> Will all those who can hit the side of a barn with a 45 kindly raise their hands ..........now. Damn, by the time you get that bag of iron out of your pants, the bad guys have you between the crotch; or, maybe somewhere that hurts.
> 45's were for the staff fools who never ever pulled a weapon.
> ....there is this bridge for sale Cheeves..........................:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


Well Goodness, How big a barn we talkin about? Don't think i would ever wanna test your theory with a guy who is profecient with a 45. Those 45 slugs make some big holes. I have two colt 45's and can shoot them as well as the other calibers. It's not about who has the biggest gun, It's about who practices and who does not. Give me a 45 and lots of practice anyday over a 9mm with no practice.


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 27, 2011)

I can hit a barn from the inside, every shot.


----------



## slowp (Aug 27, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> I have had logbotcher on ignore for quite some time, his opinions are worthless, his additude sucks, a generally piss poor type of person.



I think I actually agree with Logbutcher on this topic! Better ignore me for a while. :smile2:


----------



## cheeves (Aug 27, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> The MEU(SOC) pistol, officially designated the M-45 MEUSOC[5], is a magazine-fed, recoil-operated, single-action, semiautomatic pistol chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge. It is based on the original M1911 design by John Browning, *and has been the standard-issue side arm for the Force Recon Element of the United States Marine Corps' Marine Expeditionary Units from 1985 to today.* Its National Stock Number is 1005-01-370-7353.
> 
> The Heckler & Koch MK23 Mod 0 is a handgun consisting of a match grade semi-automatic pistol, a laser aiming module (LAM), and suppressor. *It was adopted by the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) for special operations units in the 1990s.*
> While the designation applies to the complete system, it's also commonly used in reference to the pistol component itself. The pistol itself, chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge, was developed by Heckler & Koch, and was selected over the Colt OHWS through USSOCOM's Offensive Handgun Weapon System (OHWS) program. The LAM and suppressor were developed by Insight Technology and Knight's Armament Company (KAC), respectively.
> ...


 Thank you Whitespider!


----------



## freemind (Aug 27, 2011)

deerlakejens said:


> So you really think its an abomination to eat shellfish, as is stated clearly in the bible?


 
Old testiment and new testiment are different. 

I am even so bold, that I drink milk when I consume meat. Nothing like a pot roast washed down with a glass of milk.

"I came not to wash away the old law, but to make new law."

Your arguement holds no water since He would have been guilty of breaking OT law Himself, if it were not for writing new law. 

I am not participating in this thread to make enemies or hurt someone's "feelers". I am merely pointing out facts. I prefer facts and logic to emotional thinking. I prefer critical thinking skills to knee jerk reaction.


----------



## Currently (Aug 27, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> I can hit a barn from the inside, every shot.


 
Bull poopie ... are you refusing to admit to the times you shot out the open barn door? :msp_tongue:


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 27, 2011)

Currently said:


> Bull poopie ... are you refusing to admit to the times you shot out the open barn door? :msp_tongue:


 
That is called firing from concealment.


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 27, 2011)

slowp said:


> I think I actually agree with Logbutcher on this topic! Better ignore me for a while. :smile2:


 
You don't like .45s?


----------



## TreePointer (Aug 27, 2011)

Currently said:


> Bull poopie ... are you refusing to admit to the times you shot out the open barn door? :msp_tongue:


 
Yesterday, I shot a groundhog while standing inside my kitchen door with a .17HMR. (true story)

It helps to shoot your food from where you cook and eat it. (may or may not be true )


----------



## Rockland Farm (Aug 27, 2011)

As far as the original posters question as to CCW while cutting . The answer is yes I do , I carry always . I feel as long as it is done in a responsible and legal manner go ahead and do as you wish . I won't force you to carry a weapon if you don't want to . Just don't tell me I can't or should not because you don't want to . As to the issue of the Military carrying 45' s . I don't know where some guys get their info from but some units most definitely carry 45' s as well as numerous PDs . The 45 vs 9mm debate will go on forever just like Stihl vs Husky . But it doesn't change the fact that certain military units carry 45's . Some of the comments posted were so ridiculous I am not sure if the poster was serious or just trying to get a rise out of some of the guys . What it comes down to is you do your thing and I will do mine just don't force your opinion on me and I won't force mine on you . By the way I like 45's and 9mm's and own Stihls and Huskys as well as Fords and Chevys . What a great country we have to have so many choices and the freedom to disagree !


----------



## turnkey4099 (Aug 27, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> You don't like .45s?


 
Looks to me like a pedantic argument on both sides. "the .45 is not used..." Correct if one is talking about the 1911 .45 version. Wrong if one is referring to the modern versions thereof or refering just to the caliber of the rounds. 


Lots of bw wasted on a nothing argument.

Harry K


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 27, 2011)

Not true turnkey...
Both the Army Delta Force and Marine Force Recon carry the 1911.


----------



## banshee67 (Aug 27, 2011)

average penis size in this thread ~ 4.7 inches


----------



## Currently (Aug 27, 2011)

banshee67 said:


> average penis size in this thread ~ 4.7 inches




I don't recall any short arm inspections happening ... did you touch my wienie?


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 27, 2011)

banshee67 said:


> average penis size in this thread ~ 4.7 inches


 
LMAO!!!
Now that includes you, but not slowp.

I guess you are near the bottom, averages you know, 9.4 to zero.


----------



## slowp (Aug 27, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> You don't like .45s?



I dislike them if they are the Dirty Harry style. I was forced to shoot one after badly beating "the boys" in a game of shoot the flying clay pigeons, or whatever you call it when you launch the clay pigeons and shoot them in the air (preferably) with shotguns. I am not a handgunner. The Dirty Harry gun was bulky, heavy, and I shot the dirt. So, no. 

The boys whined that I wasn't letting the clay pigeons get far enough away like they were. Poor boys. (play violin here) .

A good dog and a shotgun--that's it. But don't use a shotgun to kill a rattler when the snake is up against a pile of irrigation pipe. Don't ask me how I know this.


----------



## logbutcher (Aug 27, 2011)

Just for jollies: you can prove anything online. 

It is sad that Dandy Randy is off his meds. He doesn't take to rejection well. Condolances.:tongue2:

Since I'm just back from banned camp, I've got to be careful with the big boys here ( D.R. included). They don't take to two-way firefights, and whine to the authorities. So, no more foot-in-mouth for this one. ( Do not say "GOL" or "boring" :msp_razz.

Back to the OP : I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone finds the need to work the woods, and carry unless you are seriously trained (repeat --"seriously trained" ), have a license to carry, and for some reason are fearful of woodchucks  . Damn, here we have bear, turkey, mountain lion, bobcat, deadly deer. The only time I wet my pants is when a male turkey in heat came after me in season last year; must have been between him and his girl. Each his/her own; this is still a free country. Thank those who keep it that way.

JMNSHO


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 27, 2011)

slowp said:


> I dislike them if they are the Dirty Harry style. I was forced to shoot one after badly beating "the boys" in a game of shoot the flying clay pigeons, or whatever you call it when you launch the clay pigeons and shoot them in the air (preferably) with shotguns. I am not a handgunner. The Dirty Harry gun was bulky, heavy, and I shot the dirt. So, no.
> 
> The boys whined that I wasn't letting the clay pigeons get far enough away like they were. Poor boys. (play violin here) .
> 
> A good dog and a shotgun--that's it. But don't use a shotgun to kill a rattler when the snake is up against a pile of irrigation pipe. Don't ask me how I know this.


 
That would be a .44 magnum. Completely different animal than .45ACP


----------



## camr (Aug 27, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> REALLY now ? Try again with this. Get straight info first. Hk perhaps, never HK 45 in any S.O.:biggrin:
> Will all those who can hit the side of a barn with a 45 kindly raise their hands ..........now. Damn, by the time you get that bag of iron out of your pants, the bad guys have you between the crotch; or, maybe somewhere that hurts.
> 45's were for the staff fools who never ever pulled a weapon.
> ....there is this bridge for sale Cheeves..........................:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


 
Coincidently, I was in the woods with the OP and several other family members this morning sharing some quality time and practicing with an array of hand and long guns. My HK45C was test driven by all in attendance and, as I recall, the spinner target got a pretty good workout from about 15 yards. So I'd have to say, I think I will be raising my hand because I believe I could hit that barn. Even the narrow end! Next trip I'll have to take along one of the 1911's to test the theory that John Browning really did have some idea on how to design a firearm.


----------



## slowp (Aug 27, 2011)

xdmp22 said:


> That would be a .44 magnum.



Thank you.


----------



## dingeryote (Aug 27, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> *logbutcher*-
> Man you better be checking your facts before you post... your credibility is falling into the toilet.
> The HK .45 is in fact being used by special ops.


 
Not to mention the old 1911A1 still bieng issued to several USMC units, and the FBI.
AK Highway patrol=Glock 21 .45acp, as well as a couple hundred other LEA nationwide.

The old 1911A1 is also issued to a whole slew of western law enforcement agencys.

Matter of fact, the .45acp 1911A1 is the best selling design on the market currently, and made by no fewer than 30 different manufacturers domesticly. The 1911 aftermarket parts and customization industry, is a multi-million dollar a year entity that has not stopped growing since the late 60's.

It's not yesterdays news by any stretch, as it is writing history again tomorrow and the day after.
If someone has issues shooting one, they reflect poorly on thier instructor, and the same can be said of any reliable platform in any chambering. 

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## Hddnis (Aug 27, 2011)

I carried a Glock 21 while on duty. Well over half the other guys also carried a .45acp. Some carried .40S&W and a very few carried 9mm. Everyone that worked in the woods carried .45, many in a modern 1911. We had enough shootings that I can say not only are all of the mentioned rounds accurate in trained hands and good guns, they are also deadly.

One case we had one badguy hit with one round of each of the three calibers. Medical Examiner said that each of the rounds would have killed him nearly instantly. It was shot placement that counted.



Mr. HE


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 28, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> Will all those who can hit the side of a barn with a 45 kindly raise their hands


 
Well, I've never shot at the side of a barn. I tend to believe shooting at smaller targets, using some sort of rapid-fire and reload shooting drill, keeps me sharp. These swinging and falling steel plate targets are what I shoot at... the firing line is about 50-yards from my back door. I try to give the range a bit of use at least twice a week in the winter, quite a bit more during the rest of the year.

And yes, before you ask, I can ring the 100-yard target with regularity... but not rapid-fire at that range.


----------



## promac850 (Aug 28, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Well, I've never shot at the side of a barn. I tend to believe shooting at smaller targets, using some sort of rapid-fire and reload shooting drill, keeps me sharp. These swinging and falling steel plate targets are what I shoot at... the firing line is about 50-yards from my back door. I try to give the range a bit of use at least twice a week in the winter, quite a bit more during the rest of the year.
> 
> And yes, before you ask, I can ring the 100-yard target with regularity... but not rapid-fire at that range.


 
With a pistol? You are hitting that 100 yard target? Or is this your pistol _and_ rifle range?

I'm going to have to build me some targets like them... what materials did you use?

There is no such thing as too much practice.


----------



## WidowMaker (Aug 28, 2011)

Nice setup...


----------



## stihl sawing (Aug 28, 2011)

banshee67 said:


> average penis size in this thread ~ 4.7 inches


Guess it's mine that's bringing the average down.


----------



## slowp (Aug 28, 2011)

Whitespider: What do you have for a backstop? What stops the bullets if you miss?


----------



## Dogsout (Aug 28, 2011)

slowp said:


> Whitespider: What do you have for a backstop? What stops the bullets if you miss?


 
The neighbors house.


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 28, 2011)

slowp said:


> Whitespider: What do you have for a backstop? What stops the bullets if you miss?


 
A quarter mile of wooded private (my) property and beyond that is a half mile of set a side grassland that rises up-hill the entire length, some 500 feet above the firing line. The closest building in the firing direction is is over 3-miles away on the other side of the hill. And because the wooded land drops off sharply after the 100-yard target the bullets would be some distance above any (unlikely) trespassers in there. I just need to walk to the right about 50-yards to see and check the grassy hill before shooting.


----------



## xdmp22 (Aug 28, 2011)

banshee67 said:


> average penis size in this thread ~ 4.7 inches


 
Thanks for the compliment, but I am only 4 inches....4 inches in diameter that is....

WOOT!


----------



## StinkyBunny (Aug 28, 2011)

Sig 220 in .45 acp and if there's toothy critters in the woods it's a scattergun kinda day.


----------



## Hddnis (Aug 28, 2011)

xdmp22 said:


> Thanks for the compliment, but I am only 4 inches....4 inches in diameter that is....
> 
> WOOT!




He was referring to your "package" not to your "perforation"



Mr. HE


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 28, 2011)

promac610 said:


> With a pistol? You are hitting that 100 yard target? Or is this your pistol _and_ rifle range?
> I'm going to have to build me some targets like them... what materials did you use?


 
Yes I'm hitting that 100-yard target with a pistol and revolver... just a matter of learning how much of the front sight must be held above the rear sight. Though admittedly, the "hits" are only around 60%, or 6 out of 10 at that range. Another of my favorite 100-yard targets is bowling pins... I get them free from my brother-in-law who owns a bowling ally.

The 25-yard swinging plate is 3 1/2-inches diameter, all of the rest are 7-inches including the 100-yard, the 35-yard falling plates have a 5-inch black center. Plates are made from 3/8 thick steel but a rifle can't be used on them, at least a modern high-velocity rifle can't because they shoot clean through the steel. Everything was made from scrap steel and my stick welder... that picture is a couple years old, I've updated the swinging plate target frames since. I use an oak round, 16-inches long behind each swinging target, which catches most all the misses (if I miss, I usually don't miss by much more than an inch or two). The 34-yard falling plates are positioned at a slightly different angle because just behind the brush is the remnants of an old concrete silo, which stops most any miss. Any bullet that would get past the oak rounds or silo has little chance of making it through the trees, and even if it did there ain't anything out there to damage, just a grassy hill.

Yeah, it's also my short-range rifle range... If you could turn to the right from where that picture was taken you'd see a driveway into a crop field. I can't use it during the crop season, but from harvest to mid-June or so I can shoot out to 800-yards or a bit more. It also rises away from me so it makes a natural backstop.


----------



## promac850 (Aug 28, 2011)

StinkyBunny said:


> Sig 220 in .45 acp and if there's toothy critters in the woods it's a scattergun kinda day.


 
Love the scattergun...

Not as concealable as a handgun, but I suppose out in the woods, that doesn't really matter to begin, especially if you are dealing with toothy and snappy critters big enough to rip a small tree out of the ground... nothing like a 12 gauge, 00 buckshot or 1 ounce slugs... 

View attachment 197050


I still want to get a 10 gauge though... problem is reloading them expensive shells... there's nothing on the market for 10 gauge, that I've found so far.


----------



## dingeryote (Aug 29, 2011)

promac610 said:


> Love the scattergun...
> 
> Not as concealable as a handgun, but I suppose out in the woods, that doesn't really matter to begin, especially if you are dealing with toothy and snappy critters big enough to rip a small tree out of the ground... nothing like a 12 gauge, 00 buckshot or 1 ounce slugs...
> 
> ...


 
BPI., Midway, or get down to Otsego and visit Shantzes tire.

Mec 600JrMKV does a fine job on 10Ga.

BALLISTIC PRODUCTS INC - SHOTGUNNER SUPPLIES - 888-273-5623

Good luck Kid. 10Ga will eat ya outta house and home, and do no better than a good 12ga.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## CrappieKeith (Aug 29, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Holy Crap *CrappieKeith*, all eleven pages... eleven pages of the same ol' argument that's been raging for the last few decades.
> If I hadn't started following this thread on the day of the original post, and had to start from the beginning today, I'd have clicked away somewhere around mid-third page. You have more fortitude than me my friend.
> 
> I'll never forget an experience I had in northern(ish) Minnesota one time several years ago. I was on my way up to the family lake home in the Backus/Pine River/Longville area and had stopped late at one of those back-woods Bar & Grill/Bait Shop/Gas Pump type places for a beer. The bartender was a big burly biker type... he handed me a beer and told me to drink up 'cause he was getting ready to close. So, about half way through my beer, three drunken local types come waltzing in wanting beers. The bartender tells 'em he's already counted down the till and he's done serving for the night. A bit of an argument breaks out, with the tree drunks insisting he'll serve 'em or they'll bust his head open (or some such). Next thing I know the bartender slams what appears to be a 4-inch S&W 686 .357 Magnum on the bar and tells the tree drunks they've got 10 seconds to hit the door (beer is now coming out my nose). Not more than 2 seconds later all three of those drunken locals had pulled their own handguns and slammed them on the bar (and I'm no longer looking to see what make/model they are). So while the four of them are staring down, I calmly set my beer on the bar, get up from the stool and start backing my way towards the door as I placed my hand on the butt of my own pistol. It was like 4, maybe 5, backwards steps for me to reach the door, but it felt like I was never gonna' get there. Just as I get to the door all four of 'em break out laughing... those a$$ holes were just havin' fun with the tourist.
> ...


 
Backus/Pine Rive is just a hop skip from here....those same guys must be local patrons here too. LOL...great story and a very fun read....thanks!


----------



## CrappieKeith (Aug 29, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> Well, I've never shot at the side of a barn. I tend to believe shooting at smaller targets, using some sort of rapid-fire and reload shooting drill, keeps me sharp. These swinging and falling steel plate targets are what I shoot at... the firing line is about 50-yards from my back door. I try to give the range a bit of use at least twice a week in the winter, quite a bit more during the rest of the year.
> 
> And yes, before you ask, I can ring the 100-yard target with regularity... but not rapid-fire at that range.


 
So where's the old lady or kids sillouettes that run across the range? Looks like a fun back yard..you should add a few bad guy flip ups...stay away from Obama look-a-likes..the ATF could frown in your direction...


----------



## slowp (Aug 29, 2011)

promac610 said:


> Love the scattergun...
> 
> Not as concealable as a handgun, but I suppose out in the woods, that doesn't really matter to begin, especially if you are dealing with toothy and snappy critters big enough to rip a small tree out of the ground... nothing like a 12 gauge, 00 buckshot or 1 ounce slugs...
> 
> ...



I had no idea the East Coastie woods were so dangerous!! How do you ever manage to cut any wood with so much danger???


----------



## promac850 (Aug 29, 2011)

dingeryote said:


> BPI., Midway, or get down to Otsego and visit Shantzes tire.
> 
> Mec 600JrMKV does a fine job on 10Ga.
> 
> ...


 
So 10 gauge is overrated? In that case, I'll stick with 12, 16, and 20...


----------



## stihl sawing (Aug 29, 2011)

promac610 said:


> So 10 gauge is overrated? In that case, I'll stick with 12, 16, and 20...


You'd be a lot happier with a 12 over a 10 for several reasons.


----------



## Whitespider (Aug 29, 2011)

The 10 gauge still has advantages over the 12 gauge.
A 3 1/2 inch 10 gauge will deliver 2oz and 2 1/4oz shot loads, with a shorter shot string, better patterns (usually), and do it a full 100 FPS faster than the 3 1/2 inch 12 gauge.
The 10 gauge can also be loaded with 2 1/2oz of shot... ain't no 12 gauge of any length that can do that.
The 12 won't usually handle 0000 Buck, and pellet count suffers... the 3 1/2 inch 10 has no problem with it.

The 3 1/2 inch 12 gauge just flat ain't the equal of the 10 gauge... never has been... never will be... never can be... don't believe everything you read. There just ain't any replacement for displacement.


----------



## logbutcher (Aug 30, 2011)

Whitespider [B said:


> There just ain't any replacement for displacement[/B].



Called *"TRAINING"*:alien2:


----------



## CrappieKeith (Aug 30, 2011)

10 gauge...why the over kill?

I stood beside my brother as a guy unloaded a12 gauge with only 8 low bases in it for grouse and when the gun went off it killed my brother. Put a hole in him as well as any other round would.

If you need to reach out at a distance to shoot someone...are you really in danger or are you just being an ignorant ass?


----------



## fields_mj (Aug 31, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> *
> And you big bores ( :hmm3grin2orange: ): the 1911, or 45 is a useful as male tits. They went out decades ago in any serious use.
> 
> JMNSHO *


 
You are so right. No body is using them over in the sand box these days. Oh, wait, that's right, they are. 

Don't get me wrong, I carry a 1911 because it fits my hand well, and has always been the most pleasurable weapon for me to shoot. The fact that the 1911 is one of the simplest, most effective, and most coppied designs in the history of firearms, or has the longest track record is beside the point.


----------



## fields_mj (Aug 31, 2011)

slowp said:


> OK, now a completely different question. What do you gun toters do to enlighten society about gun safety?
> For me, the scariest things I've encountered are people out target shooting, who think there is nobody about in the woods despite the evidence of work going on nearby. They then start target shooting with no back stop (illegal here) even shooting where a road was in their line. Are you actively promoting gun safety?
> 
> This problem was even worse in Arizona where the woods were flat. Idiots were firing away with no thought to where their bullets would go. This was what made me nervous. Imagine going to work in a free fire zone.
> ...



I am an instructor at a firearms training acadamy. We teach our shooters 4 basic safety rules, the 4th of which is ALWAYS KNOW YOUR TARGET. We drill this point home and address it from the perspective that the shooter is 100% responsible for where that projectile comes to a stop at. Whether it's in the berm behind the target or the farmer out plowing his field on the property behind us, or deer that the hunter was shooting at or his buddy who was just over the hill behind the deer. Know your target. Know what's beyond your target. Know what it will take to stop the bullet that you are firing. That 100 lb deer probably won't stop that 12 ga Foster style slug. 

We teach our shooters the fundamentals required to become a good shooter, and depending on which level of class we are teaching, once they can demonstrate that they are fundamentally good shooters (which is well above the average shooter from what I've seen) we teach them how to quickly and accuratly engauge multiple targets under high stress situations. This is not a bunch of beer drinking hillbillies running around on a farm. These men have fought and killed for their country. They instruct law enforcment officers at the local, state, and federal levels, from entry level deputies to state detectives, to memebers of various swat teams, to DEA and Spec Ops. They take the points you have raised very seriously as we all should.


----------



## logbutcher (Aug 31, 2011)

fields_mj said:


> I am an instructor at a firearms training acadamy. We teach our shooters 4 basic safety rules, the 4th of which is ALWAYS KNOW YOUR TARGET. We drill this point home and address it from the perspective that the shooter is 100% responsible for where that projectile comes to a stop at. Whether it's in the berm behind the target or the farmer out plowing his field on the property behind us, or deer that the hunter was shooting at or his buddy who was just over the hill behind the deer. Know your target. Know what's beyond your target. Know what it will take to stop the bullet that you are firing. That 100 lb deer probably won't stop that 12 ga Foster style slug.
> 
> We teach our shooters the fundamentals required to become a good shooter, and depending on which level of class we are teaching, once they can demonstrate that they are fundamentally good shooters (which is well above the average shooter from what I've seen) we teach them how to quickly and accuratly engauge multiple targets under high stress situations. This is not a bunch of beer drinking hillbillies running around on a farm. These men have fought and killed for their country. They instruct law enforcment officers at the local, state, and federal levels, from entry level deputies to state detectives, to members of various swat teams, to DEA and Spec Ops. They take the points you have raised very seriously as we all should.



At long last, a professional with the reason behind training and proper use of firearms. Thanks.

What is said here and used is the FIRST step in a long training to use a sidearm IN DANGER. Call it "survival", call it "rapid fire", or call it "using a sidearm to kill", it is all the same. 

Worth repeating for you braggadoccio machitos con hubris about the size of your weapons: NO ONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO PROPERLY USE A FIREARM BOASTS OR EVEN LETS ON THAT THEY CARRY. Period. The analogy is martial arts skills: one never allows a situation to get out of control so that you have to use the skills. Another period. 

Mil saying: " you don't want to die on that hill". 

P.S. Slowp--our woods in the east are the same as your PNW, NOT dangerous. Except for the non-pro fellers.

JMNSHO


----------



## TreePointer (Aug 31, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> Worth repeating for you braggadoccio machitos con hubris about the size of your weapons: NO ONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO PROPERLY USE A FIREARM BOASTS OR EVEN LETS ON THAT THEY CARRY. Period. The analogy is martial arts skills: one never allows a situation to get out of control so that you have to use the skills. Another period.


 
From experience, I agree that essentially everybody who carries does not brag about it;* however, the OP specifically requested information on it*. Therefore, I don't see it as braggadocio. I will say that there are many who like to talk guns and have fun with it, and for the most part, I see nothing wrong with that. Heck, the AS Chainsaw Forum is probably 50% bragging/hyperbole (displacement beasts, orange vs. cream-sickle, cancer curing 361's, overweight/underpowered turd 290's, venerable Homies, incomparable Contras, monster Macs, etc.).


----------



## Somesawguy (Aug 31, 2011)

TreePointer said:


> From experience, I agree that essentially everybody who carries does not brag about it;* however, the OP specifically requested information on it*. Therefore, I don't see it as braggadocio. I will say that there are many who like to talk guns and have fun with it, and for the most part, I see nothing wrong with that. Heck, the AS Chainsaw Forum is probably 50% bragging/hyperbole (displacement beasts, orange vs. cream-sickle, cancer curing 361's, overweight/underpowered turd 290's, venerable Homies, incomparable Contras, monster Macs, etc.).


 
People are just answering the question for the most part. I didn't really notice anyone bragging about it.


----------



## logbutcher (Sep 1, 2011)

Somesawguy said:


> People are just answering the question for the most part. I didn't really notice anyone bragging about it.



Now we have the "...saws are like guns because............":tongue2:

If you don't see the " mine is bigger than yours" then you don't. :yoyo:

JMNSHO


----------



## TreePointer (Sep 1, 2011)

There are no perfect analogies, but there are many ways that saws are like guns. I would contend that one would be biased against scary black guns if he were to deny such comparisons. Some people are around guns all the time, and to them, they're just another tool that has a proper function and proper way of using it. They respect them and don't fear them. Unload the last two sentences and the chainsaw comparisons will undoubtedly emerge.

Of course I see the "bigger-than-yours" arguments, but is that what's really going on here? IMO, it's very similar to the tall tales and chest thumping found with saw owners and fanboys in the chainsaw forum. That's part of the banter, part of the fun, and most of those folks don't take themselves too seriously. On the other hand (and with apologies to Freud) sometimes a gun is just a gun, and the owner is proud of the tool they use, modify, reload, and on which they hone their skills. My point is that what one calls bragging another might call pride, and some of it is just goofing around.

As far as size goes, there are sound reasons for owning and carrying a rifle or handgun capable of shooting a more powerful cartridge into the woods. Granted. not everyone has this need.


----------



## HittinSteel (Sep 1, 2011)

A chainsaw makes a pretty decent defensive weapon :hmm3grin2orange: but the glock's always close by in the truck


----------



## Somesawguy (Sep 1, 2011)

I don't mind a good discussion, but I think there are some that are borderline trolling. Am I wrong here?

Some people will never be convinced they need a firearm, or a seatbelt, or a fire extinguisher. At some point the discussion is a wasted effort.


----------



## Whitespider (Sep 1, 2011)

*logbutcher* you’re so full of crap it almost makes me laugh.

I’ve been around firearms and shooting since I was born… My grandfather was a gun dealer who owned a General Store in a small town; he sold guns and sporting equipment back by the meat cutting block. I was listening to the shooters sitting around the coffee pot, talking guns before I myself could even talk. As a small boy I met the sales reps from companies like Browning, Remington, Winchester, Savage and Smith & Wesson… I ate supper a granddads table with exhibition shooters those companies hired and sent on the road during at that time. I was in my early teens before I realized that some people did not carry guns… I thought everybody did, or at least every man did. Growing up there was always a gun within arms reach, on dad’s belt, in the car… I was taught how to “_*properly*_” use them as soon as I was strong enough to pick them up. I had more trigger time by the age of 10-years than most cops have in a lifetime. I was carrying guns and hunting alone long before I turned 10-years. I was teaching people how to shoot before I had a driver’s license. Between my house and dads house there is over 500 guns (over 150 handguns) in dozens of chamberings; and I’ve handled, worked on or repaired and fired every single one of them. I reload all my own ammunition, make ammunition for guns chambered for obsolete cartridges, cast my own bullets, do a bit of gunsmithing, fabricate obsolete parts for old guns to get them shooting again, I’ve even designed my own wildcat cartridge. Owning guns, and the carrying of firearms, is just simply a way of life for me… I’ve just flat never known any other way.

I consider myself a *PROFESSIONAL* (and I don’t give a rats a$$ what you think I am); and in my *PROFESSIONAL* opinion, you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. Your comments remind me of the type of guy (probably owns one gun he inherited from his grandfather) who’s read a couple bogus magazine articles, pressed a trigger a couple dozen times, and then walks into the gun shop or hunting camp believing he’s an expert… The type of guy who can’t be taught… The type of guy real shootists laugh at when he leaves. The type of guy that claims the “.45” isn’t as accurate as the 9mm, because he has no clue that accuracy is a function of the gun and shooter… it has absolutely nothing to do with the cartridge. The type of guy that thinks you’re supposed to “squeeze” the trigger… an abomination that no true shootist would ever use for trigger control.

When you say, “_NO ONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO PROPERLY USE A FIREARM BOASTS OR EVEN LETS ON THAT THEY CARRY. Period._” Well you’re just full of crap. Shooters talk guns all the time amongst themselves, they talk about what they carry and why they choose to carry it. They talk about ballistics, cartridge, firearms type, and argue in defense of their particular choices, it ain't "boasting" or "bragging". And if you think a concealed firearm is truly concealed, that nobody knows, you’re an idiot. I can look at someone and tell instantly if they’re armed, the way a belt stretches, the way a collar lays, the stretch marks on a shirt… much like a wallet “prints” on the back pocket of your jeans, the carrying of a gun does the same. If you know what you’re looking for it’s more than obvious, and we nod at each other in passing. Concealed carry is only necessary because of local laws by-the-way. My state does not issue “Concealed Carry Permits”, it issues “Permits To Carry Weapons”… it is perfectly legal for me to walk down Main Street with a revolver strapped to my hip and carrying a loaded shotgun or rifle (or any other weapon, or weapon type, I can otherwise legally own). Firearms are carried *openly*, in several states, by many people “_… WHO KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY USE A FIREARM… Period._” Your stupid ideas come from local laws and magazine articles… you’re an idiot on this subject “PERIOD”


----------



## Finn1 (Sep 1, 2011)

Pistols are penus extenders. Pure and simple.


----------



## CrappieKeith (Sep 1, 2011)

I grew up with guns too. Being a close relative was a dealer and had a store we often shot cases of reloaded rounds...cases of shot shells. I shot league trap for many years too on the off season of hunting.I'm no Tom Knapp ,but I can hold my own.

To tell y'all the truth I can not believe this thread.
Gun ownership is a choice and to carry is one also. It just so happens to be one of our rights as per the constitution.

This thread reminds me of PETA...they do not want you to hurt animals by skillfully placing a kill shot for a quick death of that animal that will be used to feed yourself. They would just rather it die a slow agonizing death from over population and disease.
I've got 1 thing to say...I'm a predator...my eyes are not on the side of my head..and I refuse to be reduced from the cycle of life.

When it comes to gun safety...it doesn't get much more simpler than this.
Never point your gun at something unless you plan on pulling the trigger...and once that gun touches off there's no taking back the round.


----------



## Whitespider (Sep 1, 2011)

CrappieKeith said:


> When it comes to gun safety...it doesn't get much more simpler than this.
> Never point your gun at something unless you plan on pulling the trigger...and once that gun touches off there's no taking back the round.


 
Nice... pretty much says it all.


----------



## cheeves (Sep 1, 2011)

Finn1 said:


> Pistols are penus extenders. Pure and simple.


 You know I wasn't going to respond to your comment but the more I thought about it I couldn't let it go unanswered.

My father fought in WW11. He was in Patton's 3rd Army. He came to the rescue of Bastogne in a Sherman tank. This incredible sacrifice was for idiots like you!! He carried a 1911 Colt .45 and used it more than once. He was also responsible for the .50 cal on the turret and killed many Germans in there battle across France and Germany. He's now 89 yrs old. Rebuilds some of the finest Gravely tractors in the country, gets his own pallets to burn in his Allnighter wood stove, and fixes all his own small equipment and most everybodys elses that knows him in this town. He owns some fine trophies taken from the field of battle. Lugers, Wathers, even SS Daggers. So these are penus extenders. You're a moron!


----------



## Whitespider (Sep 1, 2011)

Yeah _*cheeves*_, I wanted to say something also, but in the end chose to ignore the utter stupidity of that comment.


----------



## JLB-MT (Sep 1, 2011)

cheeves said:


> You know I wasn't going to respond to your comment but the more I thought about it I couldn't let it go unanswered.
> 
> My father fought in WW11. He was in Patton's 3rd Army. He came to the rescue of Bastogne in a Sherman tank. This incredible sacrifice was for idiots like you!! He carried a 1911 Colt .45 and used it more than once. He was also responsible for the .50 cal on the turret and killed many Germans in there battle across France and Germany. He's now 89 yrs old. Rebuilds some of the finest Gravely tractors in the country, gets his own pallets to burn in his Allnighter wood stove, and fixes all his own small equipment and most everybodys elses that knows him in this town. He owns some fine trophies taken from the field of battle. Lugers, Wathers, even SS Daggers. So these are penus extenders. You're a moron!


 
More likely Finn is jealous of those of us that can carry concealed. He resides in one of the few states that does not allow their citizens to carry concealed.


----------



## BMAVERICK (Sep 1, 2011)

I sometimes carry a .44 mag super blackhawk, and I sometimes carry it conceled!...I must have a little pickle:msp_scared:


----------



## JLB-MT (Sep 1, 2011)

BMAVERICK said:


> I sometimes carry a .44 mag super blackhawk, and I sometimes carry it conceled!...I must have a little pickle:msp_scared:


 
Mine must be even smaller. I have carried...not concealed....a Smith & Wesson 500 on occasion while in the woods.


----------



## TreePointer (Sep 1, 2011)

Finn1 said:


> Pistols are penus extenders. Pure and simple.


 
I challenge you to discuss this premise with a police officer who serves your community.


----------



## BMAVERICK (Sep 1, 2011)

JLB-MT said:


> Mine must be even smaller. I have carried...not concealed....a Smith & Wesson 500 on occasion while in the woods.


 
No, really, I think mine's smaller


----------



## Hddnis (Sep 1, 2011)

TreePointer said:


> I challenge you to discuss this premise with a police officer who serves your community.





An oldtimer at the Sheriff's Office used to tell a story about drinking coffee in a Starbucks when some hippie comes by saying with a Britush accent "Police in America have to carry guns to compensate for their small manhood." Just one of those out of the blue comments offered by some rabble rouser. Anyway, same Britush guy pulls out of the parking lot and manages to get into an accident doing so. He is sure it is the fault of the other driver and wants them cited. Deputy just said "I'm not manly enough to write that pretty little woman a ticket and this isn't a situation where I can use my gun legally so you're out of luck."



Mr. HE


Editors note: There are British and Britush, man in the story was the latter.


----------



## Fyrebug (Sep 1, 2011)

Its threads like this that make me glad i'm Canadian:msp_unsure:


----------



## Hddnis (Sep 1, 2011)

Fyrebug said:


> Its threads like this that make me glad i'm Canadian:msp_unsure:





It's posts like this that make me glad you're Canadian.:hmm3grin2orange:




Mr. HE


----------



## ckr74 (Sep 1, 2011)

Pistols for the most part are for killing people. Don't have or want one. Most people (civilans) don't have the balls to pull the trigger. I do agree with Keith that a bullet once fired is hard to take back. To keep on the subject- I do take a rifle sometimes but not to protect my myself from humans.


----------



## BMAVERICK (Sep 1, 2011)

ckr74 said:


> Pistols for the most part are for killing people. Don't have or want one. Most people (civilans) don't have the balls to pull the trigger. I do agree with Keith that a bullet once fired is hard to take back. To keep on the subject- I do take a rifle sometimes but not to protect my myself from humans.


 
There was a point in time when knives were only carried conceled as a tool to kill people. I carry a pocket knife everywhere (except on a plane and in a government building) and I have no intentions of killing anyone.


----------



## Whitespider (Sep 1, 2011)

ckr74 said:


> Pistols for the most part are for killing people...


 
WRONG! Just another silly misconception.

The purpose of a handgun, at least as it was originally designed, is for last-ditch defense of person, persons or property.
For last-ditch defense against anything that may be threatening... which may, or may not, be "people".
The handgun was never designed as, or intended to be, a primary weapon or "people" killer.

Those that believe a handgun is "for killing people" have been mislead. Some rifles and shotguns have been designed as battlefield offensive weapons (in other words, specifically to kill people), but no such handgun has ever been designed, or desired. There is a huge difference between a weapon designed for offensive purposes (a people killing machine) and one designed for last-ditch defense. In a defensive situation, whether against man or beast, I would much rather be holding the more effective rifle or shotgun... but a long gun just ain't a practical defensive weapon for everyday carry in this day and age.


----------



## dingeryote (Sep 1, 2011)

Finn1 said:


> Pistols are penus extenders. Pure and simple.


 
What is with the anti's and thier fascination with male Genitalia?

It's almost like they have a littany of thier own issues, and are projecting.

Just freakish really.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## dingeryote (Sep 1, 2011)

ckr74 said:


> Pistols for the most part are for killing people. Don't have or want one. Most people (civilans) don't have the balls to pull the trigger. I do agree with Keith that a bullet once fired is hard to take back. To keep on the subject- I do take a rifle sometimes but not to protect my myself from humans.


 
Really? 

And you base this ignorant statement on what evidence?
Something new from the Brady bunch?

Last DOJ stats indicate that over 90% of people shot with a handgun and are within 15Min. of a trauma center, survive.

Matter of fact, Handguns are considered poor fighting tools, and our own Military issues rifles to Infantry troops instead of handguns, because rifles are much better tools for stopping the enemys aggression, than a handgun. 

The reason for handguns is that they are more readily carried, and lacking a proper rifle, they are better than a sharp stick and a harsh word to STOP an assault, when all else fails. 

If you're carrying a rifle and not concerned with two legged predators, you might want to consider a few facts.
More folks are assaulted and killed by people than critters in our wild lands, in our national parks it's like 10,000-1.
Ya might be better off with a lighter, and more easily transported handgun than a rifle...unless ya have Grizzlys wandering around in Kansas. Nothing wrong with carrying a good varminter along though, couple of woodchucks sent on thier way while woodcutting, makes for a good day

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## dingeryote (Sep 1, 2011)

Fyrebug said:


> Its threads like this that make me glad i'm Canadian:msp_unsure:


 

We are glad the Queens sheep, stayed north of the border too!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## ckr74 (Sep 1, 2011)

Whitespider said:


> WRONG! Just another silly misconception.
> 
> The purpose of a handgun, at least as it was originally designed, is for last-ditch defense of person, persons or property.
> For last-ditch defense against anything that may be threatening... which may, or may not, be "people".
> ...


 
I respectibily diagree. I don't go deer hunting or shoot quail with a hand gun.


----------



## cornbread (Sep 1, 2011)

I always carry


----------



## Art Vandelay (Sep 1, 2011)

ckr74 said:


> Pistols for the most part are for killing people. Don't have or want one. Most people (civilans) don't have the balls to pull the trigger. I do agree with Keith that a bullet once fired is hard to take back. To keep on the subject- I do take a rifle sometimes but not to protect my myself from humans.


 
I must be doing something wrong then, I own 7 pistols and haven't killed anyone. Do they have a class for going on a murder spree, I obviously need the guidance? :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## xdmp22 (Sep 1, 2011)

ckr74 said:


> Pistols for the most part are for killing people. Don't have or want one. Most people (civilans) don't have the balls to pull the trigger. I do agree with Keith that a bullet once fired is hard to take back. To keep on the subject- I do take a rifle sometimes but not to protect my myself from humans.


 



WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY said:


> sheeple
> 
> A individual that forfits their right to choose in favor of inclusion in groupthink and what is viewed as popular or elete group. Allowing the influences of different forms of media and group members to hold great sway in the formation of attitudes, behavoir and opinion.
> To accept the group mentaility and opinion as fact without examination.
> Not only to be told what to do, but accepting the paradigm of thought as absolute thereby removing the weight of personal responsibility in the making of decisions.


----------



## ckr74 (Sep 1, 2011)

Art Vandelay said:


> I must be doing something wrong then, I own 7 pistols and haven't killed anyone. Do they have a class for going on a murder spree, I obviously need the guidance? :msp_rolleyes:


 
I have rifles. Man I love stirring up sh#t. To each his own-I think??????? I think we all need guidance. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Art Vandelay (Sep 1, 2011)

ckr74 said:


> I have rifles. Man I love stirring up sh#t. To each his own-I think??????? I think we all need guidance. :hmm3grin2orange:


 
Well admitting that you're a troll is half the battle, walking away and ending it is the other half. You're on second base and the third base coach is waving you home.


----------



## banshee67 (Sep 1, 2011)




----------



## TreePointer (Sep 1, 2011)

:notrolls2:


----------



## Whitespider (Sep 2, 2011)

ckr74 said:


> I respectibily diagree. I don't go deer hunting or shoot quail with a hand gun.


 
Now I'm totally confused... What in the heck does deer hunting and quail shooting have to do with this thread? I mean really... I don't get your point, but I'll play along...

Here in Iowa we are not allowed to use center fire rifles to hunt deer, but handguns are allowed. OK, so you don't hunt deer with a handgun. So what? I hunt deer with a handgun, and bring home the meat every year. So what's your point? I guess in Iowa *rifles* “_*for the most part are for killing people...*_” because we don’t use them for hunting.

Do you see just how ludicrous your reasoning is? Just because *YOU* don’t hunt with a handgun they automatically become “people killers.” That’s a pretty uppity attitude on your part, don’t you think? Using the same reasoning I can make the same exact argument about rifles… and you’d think I was silly, wouldn’t you? Well your argument is just as ridiculous.


----------



## logbutcher (Sep 2, 2011)

So boys and girls , let's get back to the O.P. Dispense with the "mine is bigger than yours"; or "let me show you mine" Gump.

Damn, it's those Pinus Strobus that you need protection from. Be careful out there, be very careful.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Whitespider (Sep 2, 2011)

Hey *Treeco*, what's up with the new handle?

Got yourself a new name, but I see you're still wearing the same spots.


----------



## little possum (Sep 2, 2011)

Yes we carry while firewooding. It is illegal here to shoot someone that is stealing your property. But we are gonna do our best to scare the heck outta them if they are grabbing saws outta the truck. I looked the other day, and we had 3 saws in the back and had close to 3k$ worth of goods in the back. 

Dad has a lot of issues with his back, and is most likely unable to fight hand to hand, so he carrys to protect hisself.

This has been a terrible thread. Anyone who doesnt like the idea of carrying mise well just not post, because you will never conform anyone that does. Im sure most respect your decision not to carry. A gun doesnt make me feel any more macho than carrying a knife. A gun is the last ditch effort for me.

We carry in the woods mostly for the coyotes, coons. etc. Anything that gets too close. Dad had to dispatch a coon from the tractor one day cause the coon jumped on the fourwheeler with the other guys. 

But I have the right, and I am going to use it. 

BTW, I am on page 13, working my way up


----------



## Somesawguy (Sep 2, 2011)

little possum said:


> Yes we carry while firewooding. It is illegal here to shoot someone that is stealing your property. But we are gonna do our best to scare the heck outta them if they are grabbing saws outta the truck. I looked the other day, and we had 3 saws in the back and had close to 3k$ worth of goods in the back.
> 
> Dad has a lot of issues with his back, and is most likely unable to fight hand to hand, so he carrys to protect hisself.
> 
> ...




Watch out for the troll droppings.


----------



## CrappieKeith (Sep 2, 2011)

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn::check::deadhorse:

Livelife like a dog..if ya can't eat it or hump it just piss on it and walk away.


----------



## Garmins dad (Sep 2, 2011)

There is always a sxs 12g near me.. to many creeps in the bush and to many big kittys.... 




Fyrebug said:


> Its threads like this that make me glad i'm Canadian:msp_unsure:


 
Guys up here pack... don't let yourself lie to yourself bout that one.. Just cause its illegal here doesn't mean its not there..


----------



## logbutcher (Sep 2, 2011)

little possum said:


> Yes we carry while firewooding. It is illegal here to shoot someone that is stealing your property. But we are gonna do our best to scare the heck outta them if they are grabbing saws outta the truck. I looked the other day, and we had 3 saws in the back and had close to 3k$ worth of goods in the back.
> 
> Dad has a lot of issues with his back, and is most likely unable to fight hand to hand, so he carrys to protect hisself.
> 
> ...



OOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I'm a hearin' banjos.................


----------



## cornbread (Sep 2, 2011)

Why Grandpa carries a gun

My old grandpa said to me 'Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take a butt whoopin.'

I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

I don't carry a gun to scare people. I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.

I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid. I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I'm evil. I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

I don't carry a gun because I'm angry. I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.

I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy. I carry a gun because, when I die and go to heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.

I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

I don't carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.

Police protection is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves. Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.

Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take a butt whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

*********
A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. 
-----------

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
------------

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'. During WW II the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!


The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. 

The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.


----------



## audible fart (Sep 2, 2011)

So have the people raised without a father figure convinced the people that have small schlongs about anything yet?umpkin2:


----------



## stihl sawing (Sep 2, 2011)

audible fart said:


> So have the people raised without a father figure convinced the people that have small schlongs about anything yet?umpkin2:


I didn't have a father figure and mine is pretty darn small.


----------



## audible fart (Sep 2, 2011)

stihl sawing said:


> I didn't have a father figure and mine is pretty darn small.


 
Stewie from family guy got his junk made fun of on one episode, and he said "i wouldn't want a big penis anyway......because they're messy!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihl sawing (Sep 2, 2011)

audible fart said:


> Stewie from family guy got his junk made fun of on one episode, and he said "i wouldn't want a big penis anyway......because they're messy!:hmm3grin2orange:


It's really messy when you can't find it in time to pee in the toilet.:msp_sad:


----------



## stihl sawing (Sep 2, 2011)

For all you big weinered guys, My tiny weinered self will be going to the woods in the morning packed with three guns. Colt 45, Steyr Aug, H&K MP5. So there.:msp_tongue:


----------



## TreePointer (Sep 2, 2011)

Does pepper spray make a man inadequate or just extra spicy?


----------



## audible fart (Sep 2, 2011)

TreePointer said:


> Does pepper spray make a man inadequate or just extra spicy?


 
You're screwed if a habanero connoisseur attacks you though.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Sep 2, 2011)

stihl sawing said:


> It's really messy when you can't find it in time to pee in the toilet.:msp_sad:


 
Well at least you didn't poop yourself this time.


----------



## stihl sawing (Sep 2, 2011)

Art Vandelay said:


> Well at least you didn't poop yourself this time.


That come next.


----------



## Whitespider (Sep 3, 2011)

It's always just a matter of time before a thread degenerates into...... well, this.

You boys know how it works here on AS, right?
If there ain't pictures......

So lay 'em out next to the rulers boys, and get out them there cameras.
If'n ya' ain't got a ruler handy your saw bar & chain will be OK so long as we can count the links; just flop it out on the end.


----------



## logbutcher (Sep 3, 2011)

banjos


----------



## clinchscavalry (Sep 3, 2011)

First Aid Kit
Hard Hat
Tool Box
Come Along
Shovel
Chain
Pocket Knife
Gloves
Change of Dry Clothes
Snatch Strap
Assorted Fluids for the truck (oil, brake, coolant, etc.)
Eyedrops
Goody's Headache Powders
Water
Firearm

The list goes on quite a ways further.




I could cut wood without any of these or go somewhere to do any other job, but sometimes I need one of these items.

Asking "why do you carry a firearm, what are you afraid of" is no different than asking me why I carry a first aid kit. Remember the Boy Scout motto "Be Prepared"


----------



## logbutcher (Sep 3, 2011)

clinchscavalry said:


> First Aid Kit
> Hard Hat
> Tool Box
> Come Along
> ...



BANJOS..................no chainsaw in that list  or Boy Scout ?:bang:


----------



## little possum (Sep 3, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> OOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
> I'm a hearin' banjos.................


 
I love some good ol fashion pickin!

Back to my bunker!!


----------



## TreePointer (Sep 3, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> banjos


 
We hear you already. Please keep your Ned Beatty fantasies to yourself.


----------



## banshee67 (Sep 3, 2011)




----------



## audible fart (Sep 3, 2011)

banshee67 said:


>


 
Post a pic of James Brady, i need a laugh.


----------



## logbutcher (Sep 3, 2011)

TreePointer said:


> We hear you already. Please keep your Ned Beatty fantasies to yourself.



WTF....WHY boy ? 

Rule: You can never be too rich, too thin, have too many saws, have too many fantasies ( WhoTF is "Ned Beatty " :frown: ), or have too many banjos playing in your brain. :msp_w00t:

You don like banjos TP ? :msp_tongue:


----------



## TreePointer (Sep 3, 2011)

logbutcher said:


> WTF....WHY boy ?
> 
> Rule: You can never be too rich, too thin, have too many saws, have too many fantasies ( WhoTF is "Ned Beatty " :frown: ), or have too many banjos playing in your brain. :msp_w00t:
> 
> You don like banjos TP ? :msp_tongue:



You are in serious denial. Deliverance (1972) - IMDb


----------



## audible fart (Sep 3, 2011)

TreePointer said:


> You are in serious denial. Deliverance (1972) - IMDb


 
i thought deliverance was good, but i need a good car chase in my burt reynolds movies. I think he just wrecked a jeep in deliverance. White Lightnin' rules!


----------



## logbutcher (Sep 3, 2011)

BANJOS:bang:

"bURT rEYNOLDS" !!??


----------



## banshee67 (Sep 3, 2011)




----------



## ft. churchill (Jan 2, 2013)

Just like an American express card.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Fronty Owner (Jan 2, 2013)

Most of my cutting is done on friends land. Take my AR with me, once the tree is on the ground, the truck is nearby. 
Oklahoma now allows conceal carry permit holders to open carry, I probably would do that with a retention holster while in the woods. conceal it when I leave the woods.


----------



## stihl sawing (Jan 2, 2013)

Fronty Owner said:


> Most of my cutting is done on friends land. Take my AR with me, once the tree is on the ground, the truck is nearby.
> *Oklahoma now allows conceal carry permit holders to open carry*, I probably would do that with a retention holster while in the woods. conceal it when I leave the woods.


Awesome, Wish they would do that here. Which we can carry open in the woods just not in town or public places.


----------



## sgt7546 (Jan 2, 2013)

wow, old thread, but I'll play along.

I carry a G-22 everywhere I go. If I'm going to the true "woods" to cut, and not removing a downed tree from someones front yard, I usually have an AR or 870 in the truck.


----------



## Fronty Owner (Jan 2, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> Awesome, Wish they would do that here. Which we can carry open in the woods just not in town or public places.



In November, the Ok self defense act got some changes and clarifications. One of those was basically making it legal to print. If I forget to conceal, no big deal anymore.
At the same time, a law went into effect allowing us to use suppressors to hunt our own land :msp_smile:


----------



## Mac88 (Jan 2, 2013)

Fronty Owner said:


> At the same time, a law went into effect allowing us to use suppressors to hunt our own land :msp_smile:



Flash or sound?


----------



## stihl sawing (Jan 2, 2013)

Mac88 said:


> Flash or sound?


I would say sound, Flash suppressors are legal here. Sounds are if you pay a tax and Ok them with the Batf. They put them in the same as a class 3.


----------



## Mac88 (Jan 2, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> I would say sound, Flash suppressors are legal here. Sounds are if you pay a tax and Ok them with the Batf. They put them in the same as a class 3.



Cool. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## tld400 (Jan 2, 2013)

If it was easy to get a carry lic. in nj i would carry. But its not. So I guess I have to just keep bringing my knife to a gun fight.:msp_smile:


----------



## Jakers (Jan 2, 2013)

my 44 mag is in the truck at all times wherever i go. its a tad bulky to CC but its always close by. also keep a stainless .17HMR behind the seat. perfect for plinkin and such

Edit: i also have my CCW permit for the state of minnesota and am working on getting the utah so it has the reciprocity in most states


----------



## Bocephous (Jan 3, 2013)

Glock 23 in a Blue Stone belly band holster is with me whenever I'm outside of the home.


----------



## Uncle John (Jan 3, 2013)

Bocephous said:


> Glock 23 in a Blue Stone belly band holster is with me whenever I'm outside of the home.



Same here with either Ruger SP101 .357 or Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special in pocket.


----------



## FLHX Storm (Jan 3, 2013)

Uncle John said:


> Same here with either Ruger SP101 .357 or Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special in pocket.



My Ruger Super Redhawk 44mag with a 9 and 1/2 inch barrel is a little too large to carry concealed though I do occasionally strap it on for any wildlife I might want to invite to dinner (as the main course) while I'm out in the woods. 

(_tresspassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again!_  )


----------



## kd460 (Jan 3, 2013)

I have a ccw permit here in michigan. I carry a fair amount of the time. I find my .45 smith is too big and bulky to carry while working in the woods, so I just keep a little colt .25 pocket auto in my back pocket. I know a .25 aint much, but I hope it will keep "whatever" at bay till I grab the .45 from the truck. 

Or better yet the 12 gauge with alternating #1 buck, foster type slug, #1 buck, foster type slug, etc.

Remember, speak softly but carry a big stick!

I worry more about the humans I encounter than the critters. I do cut in black bear country, and the bear population is growing where I cut as well. KD


----------



## KyleOh (Jan 3, 2013)

Always have at least one straight shootin rifle with me, and a sharp hachette on my side for close range and beating wedges.


----------



## sdt7618 (Jan 3, 2013)

DSS said:


> It's threads like this that make me quite happy to be canadian.
> 
> I don't even know anybody who has a handgun.



Same here, the uk has some of the strictest laws around after a few mass killings alot of years ago not saying the "nasties" can't/don't have guns, but sure glad I 99.999999999999999999% know I don't need one.... And then can't think when I every would have been better of with a firearm


Now would love to have a pistol just for the fun of shooting( in a controlled environment), did target rifle shooting at uni for a few years and enjoyed that.

Different house for different courses! 

Stay safe However that may come to you


----------



## Rockland Farm (Jan 3, 2013)

Just curious about the UKs violent crime numbers . Has the number of murders with other weapons stayed the same or gone up or down ? What about rapes , assaults , muggings and other violent crimes . Something tells me if you look up those numbers you and Australia are very similar . I get the impression the Australians are not too happy with their recent gun laws .


----------



## SpiralAcacia (Jan 3, 2013)

Just walk through a central bus station here, Israel, you'll count hundreds of M16 carabines, Tavors and whatnot. Thats just the assault rifles, now look for the handgun on people's hip...
If someone shouts Allah Akbar and pulls a knife out near you, better duck behind something - you never know when was the last time some of the dozen or so gun owners around practiced their marksmanship!!!!!


SA


----------



## sdt7618 (Jan 3, 2013)

Rockland Farm said:


> Just curious about the UKs violent crime numbers . Has the number of murders with other weapons stayed the same or gone up or down ? What about rapes , assaults , muggings and other violent crimes . Something tells me if you look up those numbers you and Australia are very similar . I get the impression the Australians are not too happy with their recent gun laws .



can't comment, but do know that our gun crime rate/murders are no where near the USA levels. Not starting a pissing war, I know I can walk through any city centre and feel safe, yes there are muggings, yes there are assaults.
Had my 3 kids( 2 at 7 1 at 8 year old) in edinburgh( not my city and only visit occationally), on the 30th out late at night and felt as safe as in my own home. Now I know that would not be the case everywhere and understand that people want/need firearms to live their lives as the want.. just read the comment from the poster from Isreal. diffrent way of life again.


as I said horses for courses!

Edit, just googled the figures, only gun crime that is up, is rifles 13 and shotguns 46, total for the whole of scotland! guns are not the culture here, now football and beer thats a diffrent kettle of fish!!


----------



## DSS (Jan 3, 2013)

I don't believe y'all are still jawing about this a year and a half later. 

Don't ever go to the woods with Stihl sawing BTW. Armed or not. :rolleyes2:


----------



## Fronty Owner (Jan 3, 2013)

Mac88 said:


> Flash or sound?


sound... dont wanna disturb the neighbors after running a chainsaw all day.



Jakers said:


> my 44 mag is in the truck at all times wherever i go. its a tad bulky to CC but its always close by. also keep a stainless .17HMR behind the seat. perfect for plinkin and such
> 
> Edit: i also have my CCW permit for the state of minnesota and am working on getting the utah so it has the reciprocity in most states


check into florida... their out of state license is one of the most accepted.



sdt7618 said:


> Same here, the uk has some of the strictest laws around after a few mass killings alot of years ago not saying the "nasties" can't/don't have guns, but sure glad I 99.999999999999999999% know I don't need one.... And then can't think when I every would have been better of with a firearm
> 
> 
> Now would love to have a pistol just for the fun of shooting( in a controlled environment), did target rifle shooting at uni for a few years and enjoyed that.
> ...



last time I was over there, I pulled a 2" pocket knife out to cut something and by the reaction of some of the people in the office, I might as well have pulled something a bit more personal out of my pants.

I was there in 06, it seems like there was routine stabbings or break-ins. Mostly the eastern europeans causing the trouble from the reports I was hearing.


----------



## Rockland Farm (Jan 3, 2013)

sdt7618 said:


> can't comment, but do know that our gun crime rate/murders are no where near the USA levels. Not starting a pissing war, I know I can walk through any city centre and feel safe, yes there are muggings, yes there are assaults.
> Had my 3 kids( 2 at 7 1 at 8 year old) in edinburgh( not my city and only visit occationally), on the 30th out late at night and felt as safe as in my own home. Now I know that would not be the case everywhere and understand that people want/need firearms to live their lives as the want.. just read the comment from the poster from Isreal. diffrent way of life again.
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, But that wasn't quite my question . My question was have violent crimes with other types of weapons gone up or down or stayed the same . Same with unarmed assaults and murders up,down or the same . I am well aware that other countries have lower or higher crime/murder rates than the USA . I was just wondering how your country has fared with more restrictive gun laws . Interesting that with more restrictive laws Scotland has gun crimes that still went up . But I am not really clear on your numbers is that for murders or any and all crimes that involve a gun including suicide . If you don't know maybe somebody else from your side of the pond can answer .


----------



## Hddnis (Jan 3, 2013)

Violent crime in the UK is up and climbing. 

Number of armed officers is up and they are planning to add more.

But...They feel so safe, that is what matters.

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online

England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study - Telegraph

Murder rate rose 5% last year | UK news | The Guardian

Those articles cover from 2009 to early 2012. During the same time frame crime in the US has fallen, including murder dropping by over half is many areas. There are any number of reasons why, but several studies point to more guns in the hands of good people means less crime. 


Mr. HE


----------



## Rockland Farm (Jan 3, 2013)

Hddnis said:


> Violent crime in the UK is up and climbing.
> 
> Number of armed officers is up and they are planning to add more.
> 
> ...


 Thanks , Now I know at least one person saw were I was going with my posts . I am not computer literate enough to post links and photos . Something tells me you won't get a LIKE from Slowp .


----------



## allstihl (Jan 3, 2013)

concealed no, intimadating yesView attachment 271271


----------



## Hddnis (Jan 3, 2013)

Rockland Farm said:


> Thanks , Now I know at least one person saw were I was going with my posts . I am not computer literate enough to post links and photos . Something tells me you won't get a LIKE from Slowp .




I've met Slowp, while I don't know her real well, we got along fine at the GTG. I'd be happy to chat with her more at another one, I can set aside our difference of opinion and I'm sure she can too. We'd run saws, watch others run saws, share some jokes, poke fun at others and ourselves, share PNW life experiences, and then go home, log in here and argue about guns again.



Mr. HE


----------



## stihlrookie (Jan 3, 2013)

allstihl said:


> concealed no, intimadating yesView attachment 271271



Wouldnt be so intimidating if you put the wood stock back on your mini. Just sayin'.


----------

