# Honey Locusts?



## amscontr (Nov 27, 2009)

We have several Honey Locust trees on our property that we need to clear and was tossing the idea about milling them instead of firewood. Most trees are 12" to 20" wide at the base and up to 50' long. I have been reading where they are rot resistant and make good fence posts etc.


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## hermit (Nov 27, 2009)

Honey Locust has big thorns, makes nice lumber. I use it for firewood,but not posts. Black locust is very rot resistant and make good fence post and firewood, however the problem with posts is it will split as it ages and can be a real pain to keep staples in. I only use it for corners where the wire will wrap around.


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## chuckwood (Nov 27, 2009)

*you're gonna bleed!*



hermit said:


> Honey Locust has big thorns, makes nice lumber.



I've cut these things down and removed them, with no protection other than leather gloves, it was a long time ago but a memorable experience. I might consider trying it again, but I'll be wearing leg and arm chaps. The thorns *will* punch through leather gloves, PP equipment will just help minimize the bleeding


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## amscontr (Nov 28, 2009)

I don't think these are Black Locust because they're a sort of green and yellow and have samller thorns. I always thought that the Black Locust hade the long black thorn and had a shade of purple in them.


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## rarefish383 (Nov 28, 2009)

We used to have several giant Honey locust (big thorns) on a fence row where my Dad dumped the chipper trucks. Mountains of chips. We had a rope swing in one and would swing from pile to pile. One time a buddy jumped off and ran a thorn all the way through his foot.

One of our climbers was a country boy from the mountains of NC. He had more back woods knowledge than you could ever read about. He used to make honey beer from the seed pods. When they fall and start to dry out you can peel them apart and there is a darkish yellow strip that tastes just like honey in them, Joe.


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## excess650 (Nov 28, 2009)

Honey locust are the ones with the BIG thorns. Black locust have small, rose like thorns, and generally just on the small branches.


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## rarefish383 (Nov 28, 2009)

Maybe a little ID problem. Black locust have small thorns and make good fence posts. Honey locust have very long thorns, espescialy around the trunk. I have 2 ornamental locusts in my front yard that were labled "Honey Locust" from the nursery. They are some sort of hybrid that have almost no thorns, Joe.


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## rarefish383 (Nov 28, 2009)

excess650 said:


> Honey locust are the ones with the BIG thorns. Black locust have small, rose like thorns, and generally just on the small branches.



Sorry to get off track, but I like your signature. My buddy calls beer liquid bread, it's made of wheat and oats and other grains. Like the old song goes "the grounds too rocky by far, that's why we get our corn from a jar", Joe.


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## BlueRider (Nov 28, 2009)

With all the thorness hybreeds it is almost impossable to make a posative ID solely on the presence or absence of thorns. Same goes for the color of the flowers.

What makes black locust so rot resistant is the presence of tylosis. Honey locust does not have tylosis. This will also make black locust take twice as long to dry. It takes 4 years for a 2" slab of black locust to dry where I am, campared to 18 months for 2" walnut. Once compleately dry I find it to be exceptionalt stable and very resistant to spliting. I love working with it and it can polish up like an exotic tropical wood.


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## BlueRider (Nov 28, 2009)

I thought I would add that the latin name for black locust is Robinia Psudo Acacia. This would hint that it would have some formidable thorns.

I forgot to mention how to test awood for the presence of tylosis. If you try to blow air through the end grain on a 1" long it will be imposable if the species is one that hs tylosis. Red and white oak make great control samples for this. Red oak lacks tylosis and you will be able to blow a small amount of air through the end grain, think of the open grain as tiny little straws. White oak has tylosis and you will not be able to blow air through the end grain. This is the most reliable way to distinghish the two types of locust. I should add that the wood samples need to be dry, somthing a microwave oven can do on small samples in a few minutes.


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## BobL (Nov 28, 2009)

BlueRider said:


> II forgot to mention how to test awood for the presence of tylosis. If you try to blow air through the end grain on a 1" long it will be imposable if the species is one that hs tylosis.



If air can pass through it I'm amazed it's still called wood?


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## rarefish383 (Nov 28, 2009)

BlueRider said:


> With all the thorness hybreeds it is almost impossable to make a posative ID solely on the presence or absence of thorns. Same goes for the color of the flowers.
> 
> What makes black locust so rot resistant is the presence of tylosis. Honey locust does not have tylosis. This will also make black locust take twice as long to dry. It takes 4 years for a 2" slab of black locust to dry where I am, campared to 18 months for 2" walnut. Once compleately dry I find it to be exceptionalt stable and very resistant to spliting. I love working with it and it can polish up like an exotic tropical wood.




Does it still keep its yellow color, Joe.


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## BobL (Nov 28, 2009)

rarefish383 said:


> Does it still keep its yellow color, Joe.



The stuff I have seems to have retained it.


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## Brmorgan (Nov 28, 2009)

It can only pass through the open pores in the wood - these are much more pronounced in Oak than in most other species. They're the "pipes" that carry the sap and water from the roots up to the crown of the tree, so if they're big and plentiful enough (as in Oak, and evidently Locust though I didn't know that before reading this thread) you can force air though them. I guess this "tylosis" substance either gums up the pores or causes them to collapse more as the wood dries out? Interesting info, I'm going to look into that a bit more. I have so much to learn yet about the hardwoods that don't grow around here.


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## BlueRider (Nov 29, 2009)

rarefish383 said:


> Does it still keep its yellow color, Joe.



It mellows quite a bit and creeps towards the brown tones as it ages. An oil finish will accerlerate and enhance the brownness and a good water clear waterbased finish with a UV inhibiter will retard it a bit.


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## olyman (Nov 29, 2009)

chuckwood said:


> I've cut these things down and removed them, with no protection other than leather gloves, it was a long time ago but a memorable experience. I might consider trying it again, but I'll be wearing leg and arm chaps. The thorns *will* punch through leather gloves, PP equipment will just help minimize the bleeding



that right thar is funny--been there--


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## Mike1974 (Dec 5, 2009)

*Keep your file handy*

keep your file handy.

I have a fair bit black locust on my woodlot and they are hard as a rock. Sparks fly.

The property was once owned by a family that had a good bit of it vineyard.

They used black locust for the vine arbor posts - and judging by the age of the trees that have now overgrown the old vineyards, they've been standing in the ground for at least 60-70 years.

I've heard the honey locust is hard, but not as hard.


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## oldsaw (Dec 5, 2009)

BlueRider said:


> It mellows quite a bit and creeps towards the brown tones as it ages. An oil finish will accerlerate and enhance the brownness and a good water clear waterbased finish with a UV inhibiter will retard it a bit.



In that way it's kind of like osage orange/hedge. I've got a friend with some nice size black locusts he wants gone. I've got to get over there one of these days to check them out. We'll do one every now and again out on the mill. Very nice wood on both honey and black locusts.


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## BlueRider (Dec 5, 2009)

Mike1974 said:


> They used black locust for the vine arbor posts - and judging by the age of the trees that have now overgrown the old vineyards, they've been standing in the ground for at least 60-70 years.
> QUOTE]
> 
> When you use black locust for fence posts the proper way is to place a large rock in the bottom of each hole. When the rock rots away it is time to replace the fence post.


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## Ol' Brian (Dec 6, 2009)

Be careful when messing around with a Honey Locust... those big thorns have some type of poison on them that can cause temporary paralysis. When I was a kid, I tripped and fell on one that jammed right into the palm of my right hand... the next morning I woke up and my arm would not move... it was as limp as a waterlogged spaghetti. This paralysis lasted for about 2 weeks before I got any strength back in it to where I could even lift it. The doctors were baffled, but the only thing that had happened to me was that locust thorn in my hand.

A good way to deal with honey locust thorns is with a "Red Dragon" type weed burner (as long as the fire danger is low, obviously!!!) Just pass the torch over the thorns, and it will burn the sharp points off of them, leaving a much duller end to the thorn. Many of them will burn completely off. Works like a charm!! But, do this only in a fire-safe area... you're on your own if you start a big fire... you've been warned! But it works great! Just use your head.

opcorn:


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## rarefish383 (Dec 6, 2009)

Locust do have a mild poison in them. Even Black Locust thorns will cause you to fester up and turn red more so than other thorns. An old high school buddy used to climb for us. He was still in the Navy reserves at the time. He also ran around with a lot of girls. A few days after taking down a bunch of Black Locusts his wrists broke out in red, festering sores. He never made the conection. I told him the last cheap Ho he was running with gave him syphilis. He got all worried and went to the Navy doctor. Man was he P/Oed at me when he got back. The doctor told him it was just from the thorns, Joe.


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## Mike1974 (Dec 6, 2009)

Kind of funny.

It only makes sense that tree that badass would also be poisonous.


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## excess650 (Dec 6, 2009)

I don't have any black locust large enogh to even consider milling. I have seen some as large as 36" DBH, or maybe even a bit larger, but they are a rarity.

My own property has a lot of standing dead black locust. Apparently they were out grown by the tulip poplars and died when eclipsed by the much higher canopy.


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## Mike1974 (Dec 6, 2009)

I have the came case on the southeast part of my property - The tulips just took over completely ...so I have a number of fairly large standing dead.

Another spot on the property, where I have fewer tulips, is loaded with locust.

I'm going to be more careful around them now, knowing they might be poisonous.


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## rarefish383 (Dec 6, 2009)

What ever the toxin in them is, it's very mild. If a thorn breaks off under the skin on me it will fester up and come out quicker than a splinter or other thorn will. My friend in the story above, and one other climber we had, both had rather severe reactions to the thorns were both very heavy drinkers. I think their imune systems were weakened by their alcoholism. If you are basically healthy I don't think you need to worry. I never pass up Locust for fire wood and get scratched all the time with no ill affect, Joe.


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## Ol' Brian (Dec 7, 2009)

Mike1974 said:


> I have the came case on the southeast part of my property - The tulips just took over completely ...so I have a number of fairly large standing dead.
> 
> Another spot on the property, where I have fewer tulips, is loaded with locust.
> 
> I'm going to be more careful around them now, knowing they might be poisonous.




Just maintain a healthy respect for those thorns...

My temporary paralysis was when I was just a little kid, 2nd grade I think. That thorn went deep into the palm of my hand. I've been poked a few times by the thorns as an adult, with no ill effects. Just wear good boots, and leather gloves, and take your time.


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## 00juice (Dec 16, 2009)

I milled some honey locust a little while back. The slabs are 3" thick, 24" wide. Dried outside for 2 years, moved inside the shop, surfaced and stacked to continue drying. They are beautiful slabs. I'm going to be building a rustic table from them for someone soon. I'll definately mill the honey locust again.


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## WadePatton (Dec 16, 2009)

'round here. the honey locust has the big red, multi-pointed thorns growing all over-including the trunk.

black only has single spine thorns on new growth--much like bodock.

honey locust makes pretty wood. and isn't nearly as hard as black.

i regularly cut old dead black locust and even though 20-30% of the wood will be doaty, it's well worth getting the sound pieces. besides, a little rot speeds up the splitting.

always mill the honey and make posts/heater wood out of the black.

honey







black






honey






oh honey you shouldn't have:






chair stolen from: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Characteristics_of_Honeylocust_Wood.html

where there's more good info.


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## PA Plumber (Dec 16, 2009)

Here's a pic from a while ago. Some of the thorns were over 14" long.

Took this one down and a few others. They are now seasoning.


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## PA Plumber (Dec 16, 2009)

Guess I should also mention, I have split some of the wood from the trees similar to the picture. 

There are full thorns in the inside of the rounds. This stuff just doesn't quit!


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## WadePatton (Dec 17, 2009)

i suppose if i had access to much of it, i'd polesaw an access point. limb and "bark" with polesaw for bucks, and then drag it an extra mile or to before putting it into the saw pile.

i was trimming up a bodock the other day and backed onto a honeylocust that i didn't even know was there. bled the toxin out i suppose, no "extra" pain or complications. 

hey which reminds me, i've got a wicked thorned small tree taking over my fallow garden. look for photo id contest tomorrow. this crap is worse than osage afik. and i _will_saw/dig/burn/poison the crap into submission...


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