# Is there a name for this?



## Stayalert (Sep 12, 2013)

I wanted to drop this ash tree with good control of the stem. worked like a charm. Don't know if this is "right" or not but made sense to me. Is there a name for the "non standard face?"View attachment 314061
View attachment 314062


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## old_soul (Sep 12, 2013)

Del_ said:


> I believe that is called the 'I hope nobody is looking, cut'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




now that's funny right there.............


Strange place to tie a pull line, at 3 foot above the cut. Even with a good notch I'm not sure it would help!


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## lone wolf (Sep 12, 2013)

Seems to me if he would have pulled it hard enough tied low like that it would pull the base away from the house and drop the top on it!


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## Stayalert (Sep 12, 2013)

:biggrin:

Those aren't pull lines. Those are lines to control the stem once separated from the stump so it didn't bounce, twist, roll through the house....Those comical face cuts allowed the holding wood/hinge to last alot longer which made for a smoother separation of the stem from the stump....


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## HuskStihl (Sep 12, 2013)

That face is called a "Stair step" Dutchman. Also called a "gear cog" face. You cut intermeshing "cogs" into the upper and lower face cuts. As the face closes, the cogs act just like meshing gears to propel the tree directly to the ground. To turn the tree left or right you angle the intermeshing cogs in the direction you wish it to fall. It is the only way to fall hazard trees, and pull ropes are completely unnecessary as the face cut provides guaranteed accuracy regardless of lean or wind. Kudos to stayalert for having the knowledge and saw skill to execute such an advanced cut


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## woodchuck357 (Sep 12, 2013)

Call it a coos bay step cut!


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## Stayalert (Sep 12, 2013)

Nice! I knew there was a name for it.....


um....yes I am kidding......:biggrinbounce2:

In parts of Europe I believe it is known as "les meshin facada"


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## Zale (Sep 12, 2013)

Maybe ask Murph. I am sure he will claim he invented it. Why take the risk and not climb it?


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## Stayalert (Sep 13, 2013)

Zale said:


> Maybe ask Murph. I am sure he will claim he invented it. Why take the risk and not climb it?



I did climb it to remove lower limbs that would have raked the roof/house/neighboring tree(s)....Then I rapped down and dropped the rest of it (90%) from the ground....Much faster. Its funny you mention Murph 'cause I've seen some of his videos and remember seeing undercut faces.....Maybe I learned it from him?????? Thanks Murph!!!

here's a picture before I dropped it from the ground:


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## derwoodii (Sep 13, 2013)

dear deity you get 9 lives so a few used :msp_ohmy:

must say if i'd posted all my learning curve & feats there be few pages but do try to practice your felling 1st away from targets eh lad


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## woodchuck357 (Sep 13, 2013)

Just saying, those ropes would have been small to no help if the trunk had gone sideways. Regarding the notch, it acted like an open, birds mouth, 90 degree what ever you want to call it by not breaking the hinge wood until the tree was almost on the ground. 

One smooth cut on the lower side of the notch to match the upper would have looked better but wouldn't have worked any better.


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## Stayalert (Sep 13, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> Just saying, those ropes would have been small to no help if the trunk had gone sideways. Regarding the notch, it acted like an open, birds mouth, 90 degree what ever you want to call it by not breaking the hinge wood until the tree was almost on the ground.
> 
> One smooth cut on the lower side of the notch to match the upper would have looked better but wouldn't have worked any better.



The ropes visible in the picture had no purpose UNTIL THE STEM WAS FREE OF THE STUMP. The ropes were there (and useful) for limiting travel of the stem towards the house AFTER THE STEM WAS FREE OF THE STUMP. My face and back cuts created holding wood & hinge which provided direction during felling. yes a smooth angled cut would have looked better. For me (scrawny arms) a couple of right angle cuts are easier with a heavy (to me) chainsaw (MS660)

I also had a rope on the stem that was about 40 feet above ground level available for pulling in the direction that I wanted.....


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## Stayalert (Sep 13, 2013)

derwoodii said:


> dear deity you get 9 lives so a few used :msp_ohmy:
> 
> must say if i'd posted all my learning curve & feats there be few pages but do try to practice your felling 1st away from targets eh lad



Dear didjeriderwoodii,

Goodonya mate, don't know what "dear deity" means but I reckon that you've forgotten more than I'll ever know about tree felling....Is there a more suitable forum for me to post this in than "arborist 101?"

I looked at this job, planned it, executed it, and was stoked at the outcome. Home owner was pretty pleased that everything was tickity boo after the tree was on the ground too. Post up your learning curve & feats so people like me can LEARN.

Cheers!


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## Zale (Sep 13, 2013)

No doubt you were stoked after putting it on the ground. I would be to. For me, I think the issue is the proximity of the house to the tree. I would have taken the top out first. Do you have a picture of the stump? How much tension were on the ropes tied at the base of the tree after it was on the ground? Just asking questions not criticizing.


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## derwoodii (Sep 13, 2013)

Stayalert said:


> Dear didjeriderwoodii,
> 
> Goodonya mate, don't know what "dear deity" means but I reckon that you've forgotten more than I'll ever know about tree felling....Is there a more suitable forum for me to post this in than "arborist 101?"
> 
> ...



theres plenty to see and learn about at AS stick around you can fast forward your skills set just by reading here a good thread on what not to do many more enjoy,, thou take heed real world is not so forgiving as web world 

http://www.arboristsite.com/arboricultural-injuries-fatalities/123695.htm


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 13, 2013)

*Just a couple thoughts..*

You said you chose do this tree this way because it was "much faster," and you were " stoked at the outcome". These two quotes to me say you put production/profit over safety of property, and that you weren't sure if it would work. Experiments are best done more than 10' away from a house, imho. The only reason you chose to do the tree this way was to save time, and that is a dangerous mindset. Jeff


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## woodchuck357 (Sep 13, 2013)

Stayalert said:


> The ropes visible in the picture had no purpose UNTIL THE STEM WAS FREE OF THE STUMP. The ropes were there (and useful) for limiting travel of the stem towards the house AFTER THE STEM WAS FREE OF THE STUMP. My face and back cuts created holding wood & hinge which provided direction during felling. yes a smooth angled cut would have looked better. For me (scrawny arms) a couple of right angle cuts are easier with a heavy (to me) chainsaw (MS660)
> 
> I also had a rope on the stem that was about 40 feet above ground level available for pulling in the direction that I wanted.....



I understood what the ropes were for, I have used similar holds often. But with at least half inch cable(wire rope, for those Navy vets) doing the honors.

I think you did a great job of felling that tree, I probably would have done it just like you did, with exception of leaving a purtyer stump. Maybe!


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## Stayalert (Sep 13, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> You said you chose do this tree this way because it was "much faster," and you were " stoked at the outcome". These two quotes to me say you put production/profit over safety of property, and that you weren't sure if it would work. Experiments are best done more than 10' away from a house, imho. The only reason you chose to do the tree this way was to save time, and that is a dangerous mindset. Jeff



I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of my words. Cutting the majority of the tree into little manageable pieces while it was laying on the ground was safer than cutting it into pieces while climbing. I climbed it to remove limbs that would threaten the house and then felled it in a manner to prevent property damage. Additionally, "stoked at the outcome" is very different from "pleasantly surprised at the outcome." Further My proposal/estimate for this work like nearly all of my work is based on T&M. 

This was not an experiment. I recognized and accommodated the hazards. Or put another way, planned and executed the safe removal of the tree.


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## Stayalert (Sep 13, 2013)

Zale said:


> No doubt you were stoked after putting it on the ground. I would be to. For me, I think the issue is the proximity of the house to the tree. I would have taken the top out first. Do you have a picture of the stump? How much tension were on the ropes tied at the base of the tree after it was on the ground? Just asking questions not criticizing.



The ropes at the base stayed at about the same tension as I had put on them before dropping the tree. The yellow line had a Maasdam rope puller on it and I backed that up with the other line because I have experienced that the rope puller's gripping wheel will occasionally lose its grip if it encounters some slack. Both lines were nearly 90 degrees from the felling direction so they didn't need to pull the stem they just needed to prevent it from moving towards the house.


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## tramp bushler (Sep 13, 2013)

Basically those were low pendulum lines. And considering they are tight they did their job. Very well too. Looks like you did great. But, being that close to the house I would have rigged the overhanging limbs down and pulled the top then blocked it down to a 10-20' stob and had the groundy hand pull it over. IMO that's too close to a house to be falling timber. But you were there. . I hope you had the pulling line tight by the time you started the back cut. It looks like you also put a face in the log. 

An easier face is to just bore thru vertically perpendicular to the desired direction of fall. Cut down 6" or so then cut in the top and bottom cuts horizontally. Snipe a little Humboldt under the bottom horizontal cut and there ya go. . 
That is just a block face with a snipe. Easy pie.


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 13, 2013)

Understand, we're just trying to help. I can understand why you'd be hesitant to rope those limbs down after your recent rigging experience, but why risk a house with that cut? Pop a top, block the rest down, and be done with it. As far as not trusting that madsen, that's the first thing you've said that makes sense. But backing it up with that PMI that already failed on you makes no sense to me. And where is your hinge?


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## HuskStihl (Sep 14, 2013)

If I had hired you to remove a big ass tree just feet from my house, and found out later you were on an internet forum asking people if there was a name for the face cut you improvised as you went along, I would be upset even though the result was perfect. That face cut did nothing for you that an open faced humboldt with a snipe wouldn't have done, probably with more predictable and repeatable results. You were there, you read the tree right, it did exactly as you wanted. 
This is coming from my perspective as a guy who hires guys like y'all for stuff like this, as most days I couldn't get myself out of a wet paper bag with a saw. When I hire somebody to take down a tree that could squash part of my house, (or my whole house in that case) I expect that tree to come down in pieces small enough that even if there is a #### up, I am not rebuilding


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## RandyMac (Sep 14, 2013)

LMAO!!!

Arborist B&D 101


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## Big O (Sep 14, 2013)

*This is 101, yes?*

I'm the last to be giving advice on removal much less felling but dropping a tree that close to a house goes against everything I've read or been told is sane and I've been doing a lot of research. This type of removal would seem to belong in the professional forum.


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## Stayalert (Sep 14, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> LMAO!!!
> 
> Arborist B&D 101



Happy to oblige with the opportunity for some laughter....Whats "B&D"?

Business & Decision?
Black and Decker?


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## bustedup (Sep 14, 2013)

Ya know ifn ya wanna see a good face cut on a big un close to a house .........look thru the threads RandyMac posted one that I'd suggest would have been easier to achieve than the one you did ....not being rude bro and the face cut that I'm on about would have given ya the control ya looking for


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## Stayalert (Sep 14, 2013)

I Appreciate the help.

I'm not hesitant to climb and rig, I climbed and removed: 1) dead limbs (if they were big enough to separate/fail and cause harm during felling), 2) limbs with insufficient reach/clear path to clear house or other assets, 3) limbs that would stab earth at an angle and possibly impart undesirable twist/turn/force to stem after it separated from the stump.

I love climbing but I still believe processing as much of the tree ON THE GROUND as is feasible, is safer than processing it while climbing. Maasdan was backed up by 1/2" 3 strand. yes I also cut a face on the log.


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## Stayalert (Sep 14, 2013)

bustedup said:


> Ya know ifn ya wanna see a good face cut on a big un close to a house .........look thru the threads RandyMac posted one that I'd suggest would have been easier to achieve than the one you did ....not being rude bro and the face cut that I'm on about would have given ya the control ya looking for



will do, thanks.


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## bustedup (Sep 14, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> If I had hired you to remove a big ass tree just feet from my house, and found out later you were on an internet forum asking people if there was a name for the face cut you improvised as you went along, I would be upset even though the result was perfect. That face cut did nothing for you that an open faced humboldt with a snipe wouldn't have done, probably with more predictable and repeatable results. You were there, you read the tree right, it did exactly as you wanted.
> This is coming from my perspective as a guy who hires guys like y'all for stuff like this, as most days I couldn't get myself out of a wet paper bag with a saw. When I hire somebody to take down a tree that could squash part of my house, (or my whole house in that case) I expect that tree to come down in pieces small enough that even if there is a #### up, I am not rebuilding



Husk here's another type of face for ya collection.......a Swanson


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## HuskStihl (Sep 14, 2013)

Thanks Busted. I did not know that had a name, but now I have a new word to annoy the real fallers in the logging forum


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## Carburetorless (Sep 15, 2013)

It's a Rubber Tree, he tied the ropes to the trunk so it couldn't "Bounce" and hit the house.


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## B Harrison (Sep 16, 2013)

Stayalert said:


> I wanted to drop this ash tree with good control of the stem. worked like a charm. Don't know if this is "right" or not but made sense to me. Is there a name for the "non standard face?"View attachment 314061
> View attachment 314062



Looks like a safety precaution and a back up safety precaution, and it looks like they worked well. Not sure what kind of notch you made, but it looks like it worked well too.


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## Stayalert (Sep 16, 2013)

Carburetorless said:


> It's a Rubber Tree, he tied the ropes to the trunk so it couldn't "Bounce" and hit the house.



It was an ash but the homeowner had a rather large super ball collection which he conveniently stored in the LZ


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## Carburetorless (Sep 16, 2013)

That explains your concern over the bounce. 

What did you do with the tree after you downed it?


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## Stayalert (Sep 16, 2013)

Carburetorless said:


> That explains your concern over the bounce.
> 
> What did you do with the tree after you downed it?



Sounds like a lead in to a joke or some abuse....But what I did was buck it up and take it to my house for some of next years heat and hot water. (Ash is my Fav. for firewood.) Brush staged for chipping....Cut the stump low to the ground......


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## Carburetorless (Sep 17, 2013)

Stayalert said:


> Sounds like a lead in to a joke or some abuse....But what I did was buck it up and take it to my house for some of next years heat and hot water. (Ash is my Fav. for firewood.) Brush staged for chipping....Cut the stump low to the ground......



Ash burns nice and clean, hardly anything left.

Never saw one bounce though.


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## Stayalert (Sep 17, 2013)

Only in Northern climes
TREE FELLING HAZARD BOUNCE - YouTube - This one bounces like crazy!


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## tramp bushler (Sep 24, 2013)

Stayalert said:


> Sounds like a lead in to a joke or some abuse....But what I did was buck it up and take it to my house for some of next years heat and hot water. (Ash is my Fav. for firewood.) Brush staged for chipping....Cut the stump low to the ground......



I wish I had some of it here


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## tramp bushler (Sep 25, 2013)

Stayalert said:


> Only in Northern climes
> TREE FELLING HAZARD BOUNCE - YouTube - This one bounces like crazy!




Please don't post those kind of vids. . There just isn't enough ways to unsee something like that.


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## lone wolf (Sep 25, 2013)

That bounced?


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 10, 2013)

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! That's a few minutes of my life wasted. I lost sound halfway through , good thing that saw bogging was making me wanna " bounce" my phone off the wall ?


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## Stayalert (Nov 4, 2013)

This is a bounce for real...For real this is the kind of thing I was preventing with that ash tree.....

 skip to 2:40 for the bounce.....


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## pdqdl (Nov 6, 2013)

I sure wish I could see the pics that went with this thread. I wonder if the pics will be coming back?


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## Stayalert (Nov 6, 2013)




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## 2treeornot2tree (Nov 9, 2013)

Stayalert said:


> This is a bounce for real...For real this is the kind of thing I was preventing with that ash tree.....
> 
> skip to 2:40 for the bounce.....



Sure looks like a lot of dicking around in that video to cut down a easy tree.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## NYTREECLIMBER (Nov 9, 2013)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Sure looks like a lot of dicking around in that video to cut down a easy tree.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


Seems like a lot if people tend to over think a simple straight forward drop


Sent from my 3120XP


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## Stayalert (Nov 9, 2013)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Sure looks like a lot of dicking around in that video to cut down a easy tree.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


Agreed.


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## pdqdl (Nov 9, 2013)

I cry foul! 

What experience woodcutter uses a ball peen hammer to set wedges; particularly using an awkward elbow-swing. Looks like another Tim Ard/Progressive farmer video, except that he at least uses an axe to set his wedges.

I'm getting tired of seeing so-called pro's telling us how to cut down teeny little trees. At least Murphy's videos are of real tree removal, rather than some dinky tree that was slaughtered to help make a video.


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## Stayalert (Nov 9, 2013)

Would have been awesome if he took out that sattelite dish thing...DOH! So much for my "instructional" video


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## sgreanbeans (Nov 11, 2013)

There is many vids out there like that, guys giving advice on something the have no real clue. There is this one guy, put vids up all the time. Is just a tool, but a nice guy. If you comment on anything about him not doing it right or safe, he deletes it right away. Search on YouTube "How to cut down a tree" and you will find thousands. Some are real good, most are pathetic. The thing that always makes me laugh, like u guys said above,they always have a way of over complicating something very simple for dramatic effect. They always come up with some new notch. I have used the traditional's from day one and they have never failed me yet. Sharp saw, proper cut, never fails. As far as "controlling the bounce",if it is close to a structure, sometimes I will put in a back up "just in case", holding the but end close to the stump. Nothing wrong with that.


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