# I want in! +1st achievement



## roberthathaway7 (Jul 16, 2010)

So I'm kind of new to the arborist field. I started up with my first chainsaw, a STIHL 028 haha i know big boy saw right? Anyways I started up cutting firewood off my farm, sticking with storm blown trees and felling simple trees under close supervision of an old veteran. This past winter I systematically had to cut down a 90 foot cottonwood goliath on our place so we could build a new pole barn and land it perfectly to not destroy two other buildings- I did it, and I was hooked. It would take forever to explain how I did it other than saying I started with climbing into the tree, strapping myself in, and cutting down vertical 10-26" diameter branches to distribute the weight of the crown properly, and then plunge cutting the 4ft trunk. I had a bigger saw by this point :greenchainsaw: I literally dropped this tree exactly, as in within 6 inches of where I wanted. I'm not gonna lie, I felt amazing. 

Right now I'm 24 years old and trying to finish up college to be a teacher, and I own a property service business including lawn mowing, pressure washing, landscaping, small tree trimming/removal, bush hogging, garden tilling, etc (I also personally sell firewood for winter income). I look forward to being able to pass this business on to my brother in law/partner who is currently wanting to get out of the coal mines, and then working with him in my summer months to pay off those dang student loans. I've always been on my own financially so let me tell you I am racking them up. 

At this point, all of that other business is starting to get really boring to me and after completing a few more jobs and playing with/challenging myself with trees as I cut them for firewood seems like it might be sparking a small passion here. And I LOVE to climb. I want a tree climbing set up so bad I can taste it. This could be my new summer/winter break work in the future. I know people always say to work under an experienced tree cutter but I was thinking about taking my time and not taking anything that I don't think I can handle and slowly working my way up, while keeping in communication with a few guys i know in the business. I am getting more and more calls about trees for my business as we get bigger, and I would really like to start taking them. 

I have bought and am studying "To Fell A Tree" and the "Tree Climber's Companion" which I'm sure you all know of- excellent books.. And I was wondering if I could start studying for the ISA exam just to learn basically. Is it realistic for me to take it within the next couple years, or is is required that I work under somebody and show qualifications? I just want in!


----------



## tree md (Jul 16, 2010)

God's honest. You would advance yourself light years by working a year or two under a good climber. I know you think you got the cat by the tail with the accomplishment of doing a large technical take down but it get's much more technical than that. Not trying to take away from what you have done and I admire your enthusiasm. BUT a year or two under a veteran technical climber and you would be so much ahead of the game. You will learn things like log weights and just how far you can go with your ropes and rigging. You will be able to learn how to deal with hairy trees and hairy situations under the supervision of someone who is experienced and teach you how to deal with stuff like that in the most efficient way. You will learn how to take down big trees fast. I have seen a lot of self taught owners. One of the biggest in my town is self taught and he is a yo yo (Nosack). He even had his own TV show. I did a crane job right next to him in an ice storm about three years back and smoked his ass. I learned from pros. I didn't guess and try to figure it out on my own.


----------



## roberthathaway7 (Jul 17, 2010)

Thanks TreeMd, that's what I'm looking for is the straight up talk about it. Are climbers busiest during any particular season of the year? If they are busy during the summer/winter I will be getting a hold of someone around here and seeing if they need an extra hand. I would love to be able to have my own little business 5 years down the road here even if i'm turning down the bigger/technical jobs. 

Another question about this.. I realize that most companies have a bucket truck, huge wood chipper, paying workers comp, and all kinds of overhead, but is there any way that I can (5 yrs down the road) get into a niche where I can pick and choose jobs to do by myself/ maybe with one person for a limb dragger and have practically no overhead other than climbing/safety equipment, a chainsaw, and a trailer. Maybe a chipper. Like I said I will be a teacher and have summers/ winters off, and weekends but of course family will have to fit in there somewhere.. anyways I would like to be able to be experienced enough to run a low scale business that would get me outside doing some straight up (safe+quality) work that I enjoy to break the monotony of the never ending high school classroom, and add a little income. Does this work? Would I be able to be the guy who will come to look at a job and if I decide that I can handle it with my equipment, will be a half a day slower but two days cheaper than the guy with all the overhead? -given that i have a reputation of quality work


----------



## tree md (Jul 17, 2010)

Dude, that is very doable. You have very realistic goals. You can do a lot without the overhead of heavy equipment. Times are kind of slow now but you could have a chipper in a year easily if you work hard and are efficient at it. 

Here's the thing, you spent four years getting a college degree. I bet you learned a lot of stuff you didn't even realize at the time, like critical thinking. Same is true with tree work. You can't expect to just jump in there, teach yourself and be an expert. Granted, it is not rocket science but nothing in life is easy. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

If you are serious about it go to work for someone who is an expert and learn. Hopefully you will be as lucky as I have been. I was close to your age when I started out, 21. I got with an older guy who was willing to take the time to teach me. He didn't mind setting on his butt and telling me what to do. I learned so much from that guy. Number one: How to max out my rigging lines and bring down big pieces and sometimes, rig whole trees. I also went with him on every sales call. I learned what the work was worth, how long it took to do it, what was involved in getting big jobs done, survival, SALESMANSHIP!!! I also learned what I could do. How far I could go out on a limb. The characteristics of wood when it is hinged and cut, how to trust my life to another...

Dude, there is so much to learn in this trade... If you want to be a professional it doesn't come easy. You need to put every bit as much time in apprenticeship as you would for a college degree... And it never stops, you have to keep up with the industry. Just like the doctor who has to keep up with the latest news and technology, so does the tree man. I don't know of any professional who doesn't have to study and keep up with the latest techniques and industry standards...

I wish you the best.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Jul 17, 2010)

You would have to apply to take the exam. There are certain requirements to meet to take it. I say, go for it.
Jeff


----------



## roberthathaway7 (Jul 17, 2010)

Thanks guys you I appreciate the encouragment and advice, you have no idea how good it is to get a little hope from veterans like yourselves


----------



## david miller (Jul 18, 2010)

i think it 3 year in the field


----------



## lxt (Jul 18, 2010)

Oh God another..... I want to do tree work guys!! 1st off I doubt the "goliath" you dropped was any thing difficult!!! 2nd the height is probably a little off??? 3rd......you are putting the cart before the horse, get a job and apprentice with someone for 2-4yrs & then you`ll be almost ready with alot more learning to come...

where do these guys come from? they do 1 tree & wanna start a biz or think they can do it???? LOL

stay in school, its alot safer, cleaner & will probably pay you better!!



LXT...............


----------



## banshee67 (Jul 18, 2010)

lxt said:


> Oh God another..... I want to do tree work guys!! 1st off I doubt the "goliath" you dropped was any thing difficult!!! 2nd the height is probably a little off??? 3rd......you are putting the cart before the horse, get a job and apprentice with someone for 2-4yrs & then you`ll be almost ready with alot more learning to come...
> 
> where do these guys come from? they do 1 tree & wanna start a biz or think they can do it???? LOL
> 
> ...



so the guy finds a line of work he loves to do and is excited about, wants to learn more about etc, and all you can do is try to cut him down.. ? i dont get it
how did anyone get started climbing, or doing anything for that matter, without taking down that first tree, loving it, and deciding they want to pursue it? the guy is excited about it and wants to do something he enjoys.. you should be encouraging him and/or guiding him with your knowledge, not laughing at him


----------



## jefflovstrom (Jul 18, 2010)

banshee67 said:


> so the guy finds a line of work he loves to do and is excited about, wants to learn more about etc, and all you can do is try to cut him down.. ? i dont get it
> how did anyone get started climbing, or doing anything for that matter, without taking down that first tree, loving it, and deciding they want to pursue it? the guy is excited about it and wants to do something he enjoys.. you should be encouraging him and/or guiding him with your knowledge, not laughing at him



That's lxt!!
Jeff


----------



## treemandan (Jul 18, 2010)

banshee67 said:


> so the guy finds a line of work he loves to do and is excited about, wants to learn more about etc, and all you can do is try to cut him down.. ?
> 
> 
> YES! Absolutely! You got! That's how its done, its protocall yup.


----------



## roberthathaway7 (Jul 19, 2010)

Treeman Dan. First of all, being my first serious tree job that wasn't a straight stick ash, it was nothing to sneeze at especially considering the tree structure and the confines to which I had to drop it. Second- I learned when I was about 5 years old how to use a tape measure and it's not hard to measure a tree when it's laying on the ground. I've seen you do this before, and I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your indescretionary discouragement other than create some sort of job security (this is a national forum btw, not local) but all you're going to do is piss people off and make them want to do it more so you need to find another plan. I bet you're a 8=D to work for. 

My degree will be used, I'll be teaching but I'll have to make something of these summers and winters off and I'm not one to just sit around, not even on the weekends. Plus i'll have about $40,000
in student loans to pay off for the next 20 years  

As for anyone else, I don't mind constructive criticism, so bring it if I need it. I always say if I could be talked out of it, it's probably a good thing I was talked out of it.

what's lxt?


----------



## NCTREE (Jul 19, 2010)

roberthathaway7 said:


> I bet you're a 8=D to work for.



You bet sure is! I worked for the sob

On the other hand you take down one easy tree get a complex and think your a tree guy. The Tree Climbers Companion, and ISA might give you some knowledge to use as a base but it sure as hell ain't gonna keep you alive or from breaking ####. Every situation is different the only way your going to get get good like me:hmm3grin2orange: is to work for someone else where you are exposed to many different scenarios with some ahole breathing down your neck every hip thrusting, limb walking, bowline tying second.


----------



## roberthathaway7 (Jul 19, 2010)

Thanks NCTREE, I didn't mean to make it come across like I thought I was a tree man though.. I more or less did this out of not being able to afford to pay someone to do it and thinking if I took my time I could probably work it out at least until I felt overwhelmed. I actually took the time to call in several experienced people that I knew to come and look at it and see what they thought about my progress and planning because I didn't want screw it up. After going through the process and having a good turn out..well I just liked it. And I have been messing around the farm on simple trees within my skinny little experience boundaries working on leans and things, and I still like it so I feel like I want to learn legit. I know you don't learn squat from books compared to experience and working with a vet, I was just tyring to see what the process is with everything, paperwork and real work. 

What I'm trying to say is, I'm no cowboy with this, and I sure don't think I'm a tree man..just have the spark, trying to see if I wanna make a fire. I am looking right now for someone who might want to take me on part time.. sort of hard when I'm running a business myself but I might get some more time in during the winter. Speaking of my business- I have been offered so many tree jobs that I've turned down due to lack of experience it's not even funny. Drives me nuts. Kind of like my boat-wheel belt buckle.

Can anyone tell me if there are "busy seasons" in the industry or is it pretty continuous? I would think spring time/ summer time would be busy with storm clean up, and winter with ice storms?


----------



## lxt (Jul 19, 2010)

roberthathaway7 said:


> Treeman Dan. First of all, being my first serious tree job that wasn't't a straight stick ash, it was nothing to sneeze at especially considering the tree structure and the confines to which I had to drop it. Second- I learned when I was about 5 years old how to use a tape measure and it's not hard to measure a tree when it's laying on the ground. I've seen you do this before, and I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your indescretionary discouragement other than create some sort of job security (this is a national forum btw, not local) but all you're going to do is piss people off and make them want to do it more so you need to find another plan. I bet you're a 8=D to work for.
> 
> My degree will be used, I'll be teaching but I'll have to make something of these summers and winters off and I'm not one to just sit around, not even on the weekends. Plus i'll have about $40,000
> in student loans to pay off for the next 20 years
> ...



LOL, look sprout....Im not trying to bust your twins! tree work will accomplish that soon enough depending on if you stay in the work???

I really have no plan to discourage you or anyone, I am saying work for someone & learn the trade!!!!!! to many ding dongs drop one tree or remove the 30ft spruce from a ladder & they think they`re tree men!!

your loans are you problem & if you didnt pick the right field that would let you pay em back while paying the bills then that again is your problem.....

heres some constructive criticism for ya......stay in school & get your masters, depending on what your going for??? if your gonna be paying loans for 20yrs + tree work is the wrong field to try to do this especially in this economic climate where any one & everyone is doing tree work for a nickel or a dime.....this trade is on the down swing & when the economy picks up & jobs start being created.......all the bag of crap people who ruined what I have been a part of for well over 20yrs are gonna jump ship!!!

so............now maybe you understand, not that you care???? but I have seen so many slack jawed jack wagons come n go all the while ruining this trade....it pizzes me off...you chose school & now are complaining about it, when I was 18 I chose tree work & am still here.

either way good luck in whatever you do & be safe, LXT is my handle and is an abbreviation's for "league of extraordinary trimmers" 




LXT..............


----------



## roberthathaway7 (Jul 19, 2010)

*clarity?*

noooooooo no, first of all I'm sorry I havent been on the defense since the treemandan incident so no worries, I've just been trying to explain myself. I'm totally down with everyone else's suggestions including yours LXT, sweet name btw. 

I want everyone here to know though- I do NOT think i am a tree man! I don't know how to say it any more plain. It seems like everyone thinks I do though. I do not. I have the utmost respect for every man who is a professional at tree work. I understand from the industry-outsider's perspective exactly how complicated, how complex, how intricate, how volatile and how dangerous of work it can be. I don't want to offend anybody by saying I think I can do this today, or in the next two years. For all I know, I could work under somebody for the next 5 years full time and never catch on.  All I know is, I would like to try my hand at it. I'm pretty sure you all said that in the beginning. I'll take the advice here and work under somebody for sure.

Oh and about school.. I think people are getting confused on this too. I'm going to be a high school business teacher. No doubt. Being someone who grew up doing everything from climbing trees to catching rattlesnakes and hogging catfish, I HAVE to do something outdoors to keep me balanced. There's always hunting and fishing but if I can find something outside that keeps me on the sane side AND produce some extra income on the side AND is something that I love to do, count me in! I don't care about how much school costs me, I'll make plenty to pay for it and pay the bills, I've never lived a lavish life and never plan to. A little extra would help me pay it faster though and be able to save for my children's education. So i'm not complaining, just planning things out. LXT, I'm legally obligated to get my masters within so many years so no prob there. Probably get it in guidance.

All in all I want to say- utmost and foremost I mean no disrespect for any real tree man, I know I need to learn under someone and not go out galavantin around:greenchainsaw: , I just want to have a side job that I like. Until something comes together, I'll be cuttin up and selling firewood. Thanks again


----------



## jefflovstrom (Jul 19, 2010)

roberthathaway7 said:


> noooooooo no, first of all I'm sorry I havent been on the defense since the treemandan incident so no worries, I've just been trying to explain myself. I'm totally down with everyone else's suggestions including yours LXT, sweet name btw.
> 
> I want everyone here to know though- I do NOT think i am a tree man! I don't know how to say it any more plain. It seems like everyone thinks I do though. I do not. I have the utmost respect for every man who is a professional at tree work. I understand from the industry-outsider's perspective exactly how complicated, how complex, how intricate, how volatile and how dangerous of work it can be. I don't want to offend anybody by saying I think I can do this today, or in the next two years. For all I know, I could work under somebody for the next 5 years full time and never catch on.  All I know is, I would like to try my hand at it. I'm pretty sure you all said that in the beginning. I'll take the advice here and work under somebody for sure.
> 
> ...



Remember you asked what is LXT?, Ha, your ok man, grow skin and hang.
Jeff


----------



## roberthathaway7 (Jul 19, 2010)

yeah I didn't even realize it was someone's name, I thought it was some random forum slang I didnt know yet haha, sorry again LXT and thanks jeff


----------



## rarefish383 (Jul 20, 2010)

I know most of the advice here is pretty good, so I skipped ahead. The last thing I read you mentioned bucket trucks etc. When we were in bus we had no need for a bucket truck. We had 2 crews and worked in the Bethesda/Chevy Chase and Potomac area of the Washington DC metro area. Our longest ladders were 40 footers, and if that didn't do it, get out the Johnny Ball. We were 99% residential, and the idea of driving a truck on the manicured lawns of our customers was, well, not even an idea. We actually covered whole lawns with burlap to keep saw dust from getting in the grass. We had lots of plywood and wheel barrows. We were not a rinky dink fly by night operation. You might say we were a niche company with a very high end clientel. I was the 4th generation in the family so I didn't have to worry much about finding work. 

My advice would be 1 ton dump truck first, chipper, then stump grinder. The rest you get as you need. 

This is what I usually say first, but I saved it for last, because you really can't do it first. Get licensed and insured. When I took the test MD had their own Tree Expert Exam, now they use the ISA certifacation test. Good luck, Joe.


----------



## tree md (Jul 20, 2010)

If I had listened to all the naysayers when I was starting out I would have never got anywhere. I worked for my first teacher for three years before I did my first side job on my own. I went to work for a couple of other mom and pop tree services along the way. They liked to send their climbers up and whittle a tree into small pieces to remove them. That was never my style so we didn't get along. I never saw the point in climbing a tree three times and pitching firewood sticks into the clear. I have always been a use your ropes and take big pieces kind of guy. Anyway, I had a few tell me that I would never make it in the business. Funny, I am still in business and most of them are not. I have far surpassed my original teacher. And he is the type that would be happy for me and proud.

I also went to work for three large tree services with multiple crews and multiple climbers to learn from as well as heavy equipment to learn on (cranes and buckets). That was some very valuable apprenticeship. It's a good idea for any climber to work with the big boys at some point to see how real production is done. Mom and pops are good when you're starting out. You can usually find someone who doesn't mind taking the time to teach you the basics and give you a chance to learn low and slow.


----------



## senones (Jul 21, 2010)

*incredible!*

Sounds like this kid has passion. A fire in his belly. We could use more of this in the industry. Hopefully the bad advice given will inspire him to prove you wrong. We need to get more young kids in this line of work, train them up, and give them the knowledge they need to advance the science and techniques of Arboriculture. What's wrong, man? Afraid theres not enough "tree cuttin" to go around? You going to get replaced by some kid?
Robert, the most useful advice i can manage is to stay on track, take your time, and learn how to do this work safely and efficiently. Study and practice. One can dedicate their entire life to learn about climbing and trees and still not be able to learn everything they wanted. Some people study this stuff their whole lives. Whatever makes you happy, as long as noone gets hurt. Right?


----------



## lxt (Jul 21, 2010)

Robert....good luck! & I mean it, if you find the right teacher & learn this trade you can have a nice sideline.

As for the Masters Degree, I feel sorry for your generation, spend a ton of money on a pigskin & the pay back takes forever, My Daughter is doing the same Robert....So I know what you`re going through.

Most of all..... do what you love, you will have days that you get tired of it, but have fun, smile & make as much as you can & above all...... BE SAFE!



Take care.

LXT...................


----------



## roberthathaway7 (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks guys, big time. you all rock


----------



## arbor pro (Jul 22, 2010)

This university of yours have a forestry program? Go talk to someone in the program and get some more info and direction. You may be able to take a couple of classes on climbing and basic arboriculture, woody plant ID, horticulture, etc to help improve the 'book smarts' or at least find out who might be a good mentor to work under to learn some of the basic stuff and, yes, the aforementioned is all 'basic' stuff that any tree-care person should learn. You can't know how or when to prune a tree if you can't properly identify it and understand its biology. 

Also, remember, tree care is a business and not just a blue-collar trade that anyone can just jump into and be successfull by way of ambition alone. If you want to succeed, you should know a little something about running a business so a basic course in business management wouldn't hurt either. How to run a business is difficult to teach yourself unless you learn the hard way by making a lot of mistakes. Such mistakes can cost a lot of money. If you're wanting to minimize your initial start-up costs, talking with others and learning about wise business management decisions will help you to make the right decisions and help prevent costly mistakes (like good advertising vs bad and sound capital investments vs shaky ones).

Finally, no better way to learn the skills than to get hands-on training from someone who is both skillfull and ETHICAL in the trade. Skill is just one part of arboriculture. Ethics (doing what is in the best interest of your client, his property and his trees) is something that a lot of folks in this trade are lacking and it's what gives this trade a black eye. I think that's where a lot of guys in this forum come off offended by so many 'newbies' wanting to come into the trade without the proper training or background. New guys come in and hack up trees for a quick cheap buck and make experienced arborists look bad and seem overpriced compared to the new guy's low prices. We don't need any more of that. Believe it or not, ethics will make you more money in the long run than just low-balling jobs to get as much work as possible. 

This trade needs energetic young folks like yourself but only ones that have the skills and knowledge to be ethical and professional. You've got the drive, now get the skills before you take the leap to run your own business. Trust me - I jumped into running my own business straight out of college with both arboriculture and landscape architecture degrees. Even with degrees in the field, I didn't have enough field experience to be ready to run my own business. After 25 years, i feel pretty capable today but I really regret not having worked for a reputable arboricultural firm prior to starting my own business. SO SO MUCH that I had to learn the hard way including business management, sales and ethics. The only thing (or person) that saved me was having John Ball, professor of forestry at South Dakota State University, as a mentor both in school and all throughout my business career. What an incredible resource he has been to me in both learning the trade and in making sound business decisions. Find a 'John Ball' in your area and you'll do alright.

I agree with everyone who suggested finding a mentor to work under. Just make sure he or she is a reputable mentor! Ask around. My 2 cents. Good luck and welcome to an unbelievably tough yet incredibly satisfying trade.


----------



## roberthathaway7 (Jul 22, 2010)

Sure they definitely have a forestry program at my school (Murray State University). As many random fill-in classes that I've taken I've always regretted not really taking any classes in that. I live in the Shawnee National Forest and knew that they would probably come in handy some day.. I will look into squeezing a class or two in soon. I actually did take a climbing class as an elective but it was pretty basic and mostly had to do with belaying off of rocks, although it did help me get accustomed to some rigging.

I am actually a business education major..which doesn't have much to do with running a business other than background- sort of like learning the tree basics before going into the field, but I have grown up knowing the ins and outs of small business. My family has owned 5 or 6 small businesses since I was little and I've worked inside and out every which way from deling with angry customers to pricing to bookwork and capital investment, and you are right a person can go reaaally just dump their business on the spot without the proper business knowledge no matter how much they know about aboriculture.

Also- right on with the ethics. I have seen people in the same field of business as my own and my family's do some ridiculous things just to get in and get out or skim the money off the top somehow. If you take care of your customer like they should be and they know it, you are really setting your business in stone. Especially in a relatively small town like mine. Cut people short and you're cutting your own throat, let alone the fact that it's just wrong. I've had several people with my property service business try to get me to do things in a manner that would make it easier on me not even expecting any break in cost but I refuse because I only believe in delivering quality work for my own sake and theirs. Talk about gaining customer respect..

As I said I will continue to seek out guidance before sticking my hands into anything, and I thank everyone again for reminding me to keep my feet firm on the ground. At least until someone teaches me how to get off in a safe and effective manner


----------



## cassandrasdaddy (Jul 23, 2010)

*wait*

till you have a tree get away from ya. a real good one tears something up. then see if you still wanna get in . i play at some cutting but will not hesitate to drop back 5 yards and punt to a pro if the tree is beyond me and quite a few are. i ussually just pay to have it put on the ground then do the scut work myself


----------



## roberthathaway7 (Jul 24, 2010)

no doubt man, when I first started really cutting firewood I had this odd and BIG limb that fell and was caught in the crotch of a tree about head high. I couldn't budge it from the crotch pushing on it with poles or any other method because of where it was, so I left it and went on bucking beside it. For whatever reason it decided to dislodge itself about 15 minutes later and hit beside me, flipped up and hit me hard enough to graze my chest but still knock me back about 5 feet. I have a scar across my chest still from where a stob raked it. A different angle and I would have been schiskyed right there on the spot. That was my first (and only so far) close call, and let me tell you that was the day the respect came.

I guess you were probably talking about felling going bad, haven't had that happen yet but having anything with that much force slipping out of your control is heart dropping, even if it doesn't hurt a thing. I do pass on jobs all the time that I don't feel comfortable with, but for some reason I never though about hiring out to have it dropped then taking up the rest of the work..:bang:


----------



## BuddhaKat (Sep 9, 2010)

lxt said:


> Oh God another..... I want to do tree work guys!! 1st off I doubt the "goliath" you dropped was any thing difficult!!! 2nd the height is probably a little off??? 3rd......you are putting the cart before the horse, get a job and apprentice with someone for 2-4yrs & then you`ll be almost ready with alot more learning to come...
> 
> where do these guys come from? they do 1 tree & wanna start a biz or think they can do it???? LOL
> 
> ...







Geeze dude, chill out.


----------



## Rftreeman (Sep 10, 2010)

be a teacher instead, we need more of them than we do treemen....


----------



## jefflovstrom (Sep 10, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> be a teacher instead, we need more of them than we do treemen....



I kinda like that! 
Jeff


----------



## jefflovstrom (Sep 10, 2010)

roberthathaway7 said:


> no doubt man, when I first started really cutting firewood I had this odd and BIG limb that fell and was caught in the crotch of a tree about head high. I couldn't budge it from the crotch pushing on it with poles or any other method because of where it was, so I left it and went on bucking beside it. For whatever reason it decided to dislodge itself about 15 minutes later and hit beside me, flipped up and hit me hard enough to graze my chest but still knock me back about 5 feet. I have a scar across my chest still from where a stob raked it. A different angle and I would have been schiskyed right there on the spot. That was my first (and only so far) close call, and let me tell you that was the day the respect came.
> 
> I do pass on jobs all the time that I don't feel comfortable with, but for some reason I never though about hiring out to have it dropped then taking up the rest of the work..:bang:



Really? Are you saying that you never had to hire a top notch, take care of you, worth every dime? You do know that you could call one of us Cool climbers to come and help! Dude, just bid it in, don't pass on it, Do it!
Jeff


----------



## Stompers (Sep 11, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Really? Are you saying that you never had to hire a top notch, take care of you, worth every dime? You do know that you could call one of us Cool climbers to come and help! Dude, just bid it in, don't pass on it, Do it!
> Jeff



Well played Jeff. Also a perfect way to get hooked up with an experienced climber to work with!


----------



## benjo75 (Sep 11, 2010)

I started climbing 15 years ago to fill in the gaps from logging. I kinda had a start by learning from loggers about falling trees and working on saws. I thought I knew more than I did. Loggers fall a tree in a direction. In tree service you work within inches all day. Cutting a tree on the ground and cutting a tree while tied to it is very different. Though it can be learned. 

I started my tree service out with a saw, Jeep with a winch and 16 ft. trailer Everything I made I put back in the business while logging. I still regularly work with other tree services and learn at every opportunity. Someone who knows it all, doesn't. I'm never too proud to ask questions. If I see a tree service I always stop and get to know them. There are tree services who are scared that you will take their business but that only hurts them. 

The ones that are friendly to me have helped me and in turn I have helped them. I climb for three other tree services regularly, plus run my own full time service. The ones that act like they dont want you around, just leave them alone but be nice to them. They WILL need something someday. It takes years to get your business where it can support itself, but it will if youre smart with your decisions and never leave a customer unhappy, ever. Badmouthing from a customer will ruin your business faster than anything. Work with someone who is already in the business and knows what they are doing. Always learn.


----------



## PFirebird (Sep 13, 2010)

I don't know if his original question got answered or not. For an ISA Arborist certification you need 3 years full time exp. in the field (and support your claim), 3 written recommendations from others in the field, to pass the written exam (takes plenty of study), pass the tree i.d. exam, and pay the annual fee. Then you get the little sticker!


----------



## beowulf343 (Sep 13, 2010)

patolmbrjck said:


> For an ISA Arborist certification you need 3 years full time exp. in the field (and support your claim), 3 written recommendations from others in the field, to pass the written exam (takes plenty of study), pass the tree i.d. exam, and pay the annual fee.



Lol, not anymore.


----------

