# bull rope for pulling trees over



## talcott

hello

i am a power lineman by trade and i also do line clearance. i sometimes have to use a bull rope to pull a tree over or just for a lil insurance that the tree doesnt get away from me.

what type of rope and what size do you pros use?

i climb poles but not trees...i use a bucket to top out the trees.

thank you

talcott


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## kennertree

I rarely use a bullrope to pull a tree over. 1/2 inch has always worked well for me, a bull rope is just too darn heavy.


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## beowulf343

5/8" or 3/4" double esterlon from yale.


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## clearance

kennertree said:


> I rarely use a bullrope to pull a tree over. 1/2 inch has always worked well for me, a bull rope is just too darn heavy.



Really? They are only 6000lbs. b.s. new. After knots, wear, defects, who knows what the b.s. is now. I have pulled over some big trees, with a bad lean, you have to use the right tool for the job and be somewhat sure.


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## J.Walker

*Pulling trees*

talcott
I use 1/2" line too.
When working with my partner, we'll set a line high up in the tree and use a rope come-a-long to pull over the tree.
When working alone I'll set a rope up in the tree with my polesaw and pull it over with my Kubota tractor.
1/2" line will take a lot before it snaps.
When setting a line in a tree, higher the better as long as the leader your tying to is sound.


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## BostonBull

I also use 1/2" for 80-90% of all rigging/pulling. I have a 5/8" in the bin for the HUGE stuff.

All we use is NE Kernmantle, and Samson Stable braid ropes. NE for pulling mostly, and Stablke braid for the rigging.

Isnt 1/2" stable braid rated fro somewhere around 13,000??


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## DonnyO

Old climbing lines! (my vote) 


Seriously clearance, no recommendation??


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## beowulf343

J.Walker said:


> talcott
> 1/2" line will take a lot before it snaps.


But you have snapped 1/2"? So have i-that's why i go bigger. If/when i snap a 5/8, time to go bigger again. Having a 1/2" line snap causing a stem to go back into a house and cause thousands of dollars worth of damage makes you realize that maybe the weight and cost of 5/8" or bigger may have been a good investment. Guess we should ask what size talcott's planning to pull over and how he's going to pull it.


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## clearance

DonnyO said:


> Old climbing lines! (my vote)
> 
> 
> Seriously clearance, no recommendation??



Bull rope. We tried to pull out a boom truck once, not stuck bad, downhill a bit, couldn't move cause the tires were spinning. Anyways, 5/8 or 3/4 bull rope, it snapped like nothing, no jerk, just a steady pull and Twang! 30 000 lbs. yeah, right.


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## BostonBull

clearance said:


> Bull rope. We tried to pull out a boom truck once, not stuck bad, downhill a bit, couldn't move cause the tires were spinning. Anyways, 5/8 or 3/4 bull rope, it snapped like nothing, no jerk, just a steady pull and Twang! 30 000 lbs. yeah, right.



How much do you figure a boom truck weighs? I would think between 25K and 50K!!! Add ONE knot or turn and that 30K rope is down to 15-20K in no time!


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## J.Walker

*Snapped line*

I did some Arborplex last summer for the fun of it. The walnut tree was on the ground with a lot of trash around it. I put a bow line with a few extra wraps aroung the butt and started pulling with the tractor, Got the tree almost to the edge of the field before the rope broke.
Well I wasted a junk rope, it was fun.
Would never try such a thing around any thing good.
We do have 5/8 and 3/4" ropes too, but their so heavy doing them up after use. I'll do anything to stay with a 1/2" line.


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## talcott

*diffrent sizes and types of trees*



beowulf343 said:


> But you have snapped 1/2"? So have i-that's why i go bigger. If/when i snap a 5/8, time to go bigger again. Having a 1/2" line snap causing a stem to go back into a house and cause thousands of dollars worth of damage makes you realize that maybe the weight and cost of 5/8" or bigger may have been a good investment. Guess we should ask what size talcott's planning to pull over and how he's going to pull it.


.
i use a pickup or digger derrick to pull with.

i have been useing a regular handline for the pulling and the trees will vary in size. i was thinking that 12,000 lb test would be about right but the only type rope we have at work is poly and i believe that you pros use a diffrent type. 1 inch poly is probally good for the 12,000 lb test but i have reached an age where i would rather spend more money and have someting lighter and stronger. an oh "frack-ah-racker" on a broken rope could mean a broken power pole and or a hot conductor comeing to the ground.

i am just too old that that kind of duppie to happen.

i appreciate you guys taken the time to provide information to an old fart like me.

thank you

talcott


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## SRT-Tech

BostonBull said:


> How much do you figure a boom truck weighs? I would think between 25K and 50K!!! Add ONE knot or turn and that 30K rope is down to 15-20K in no time!




bingo! 

i worked a jobsite once where they used the truck to pull a 3/4" bull rope attached to a huge tree. Not only was the bull rope knotted in several locations, they fed it thru several swingplate micro pulleys (which are NOT designed for 3/4" rope).

so now you have massive strength loss due to knots, sharp angles over improperly sized pulleys, and your pulling it with a truck (no control, sudden tensioning (ie shock load)...not only that, you have the boss standing in the line of fire (should the rope break. He would have had several micro pulleys and several biners int he face, at about 130km an hour. (than and again, that would be a good thing 

but what do i know, i dont know nuttin about safe rigging, rope use, engineering or anything..... rolls eyes....


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## clearance

Too heavy-waahhhhhh-thats what I say to you J.Walker and Kennertree. Now Boston Bull, we were not trying to pick the boom truck up, like right off the ground, we only tried to pull it, big, big difference. Like you can push a pickup truck by yourself on flat ground, I don't think you can pick one up.


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## J.Walker

*ropes*

Well for some rope that is stronger, lighter and easy to do up after use. Arborplex would not be my pick. But it's cheep.


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## SRT-Tech

arborplex in the 3/4" (and yes even the 1" size if you find it!) is quite nice for bullrope. But the 1/2" size........save it for climbing.


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## clearance

SRT-Tech said:


> bingo!
> 
> i worked a jobsite once where they used the truck to pull a 3/4" bull rope attached to a huge tree. Not only was the bull rope knotted in several locations, they fed it thru several swingplate micro pulleys (which are NOT designed for 3/4" rope).
> 
> so now you have massive strength loss due to knots, sharp angles over improperly sized pulleys, and your pulling it with a truck (no control, sudden tensioning (ie shock load)...not only that, you have the boss standing in the line of fire (should the rope break. He would have had several micro pulleys and several biners int he face, at about 130km an hour. (than and again, that would be a good thing
> 
> but what do i know, i dont know nuttin about safe rigging, rope use, engineering or anything..... rolls eyes....


Nothing wrong with using a truck to pull, or a hoe or cat, just has to be done properly. About pulleys (blocks), seems to me that the blocks used for most arboriculture are way to small. A 6" block for a 3/4" rope is too small, most do not use 6" blocks. I have been a part of big hazard removal jobs for Hydro, that went on and on. Pulled over many skanky, big trees with bad leans away from the powerlines. Used good bullrope, a block or two chained to trees in the bush, a boom truck, along with competent guys. You have to plan, double check everyhting and be smooth.


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## SRT-Tech

i'll agree that using a truck or skidder is fine, BUT its how its done that is the issue. ...these yahoos love the gas pedal too much.

and the pulleys had 1" sheaves. :bang: :bang: :bang: (and were returned back to the CLIMBER for use on his hitch....)

:yoyo:


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## Barry Stumps

Locally there is a wrecker service that uses his truck and steel cable that is well over 100 feet long to pull up to 15% leaners over houses to fall safely while a back cut is being used with a slow cut. This is not me before everyone commits on this. It does work or has for several that i have seen. I have often wondered with the stress load while there hasn't been a barberchair yet. Has anyone seen this done? It gets my blood pressure way up and its not even my problem.


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## kennertree

I have never broke a half inch line trying to pull over a heavy leaner. When a half inch line is broke it's usually due to leaving too much holding wood or just pulling too dang hard which runs the risk of a barber chair.


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## clearance

Barry Stumps said:


> Locally there is a wrecker service that uses his truck and steel cable that is well over 100 feet long to pull up to 15% leaners over houses to fall safely while a back cut is being used with a slow cut. This is not me before everyone commits on this. It does work or has for several that i have seen. I have often wondered with the stress load while there hasn't been a barberchair yet. Has anyone seen this done? It gets my blood pressure way up and its not even my problem.



I know all about it. There is no barberchair because they give the tree enough tension so it doesn't pinch the saw but not enough to make it chair. When the backcut is complete to the fallers satisfaction and there is the proper amount of holding wood left, the tree is pulled over. If you really want to prevent chairing, wrap the butt above the undercut after you have put in the undercut, use at least 3/8 grade 70 chain.


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## Ax-man

Personally I prefer the 1/2 Tru-Blue 12 strand from Samson, it is strong, relatively cheap and it will stretch alot when tensioned, when the tree starts to commit to the fall that stretch acts like a rubber band and helps the tree along. I don't do much vehicle pulling as we tend to use winches more than vehicles. 

If you think you have to have a actual bull rope and heavy truck to pull a tree over nothing wrong with 5/8 Arbor Plex, same rubber band principle as that rope has a lot of stretch in it too, decent price and is also made by Samson. We have used our Arbor Plex bull rope to pull over many a big nasty tree with a 2 ton truck. 

It isn't so much the rope as it the guy doing the cutting at the bottom and leverage you can get on the tree and the proper timing when to start the pull on the tree. A sloppy mismatched backcut to the notch and a thick hinge trying to overpower the tree with a big truck and rope is not a good way to get a tree down. 

Larry


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## moray

Anyone use nylon? The local pro, who is an old-timer and works alone, uses 3/4" nylon 3-strand. When he needs to pull something, he pulls hard with his truck and sets the brake. I've seen him put 6 or 8 feet of stretch into the rope. Then he makes his final cut to release the wood. All that energy stored in the nylon produces a nice fast pull.


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## Rftreeman

yellow super braid plus 5/8 here, I have used it many times for pulling over very large trees with a truck, used them at my real job and had the truck's tires spinning on the ground, this was a flat bed rear mount bucket truck, I feel that the super braid plus is probably one of the best money can buy, they are easy too tie knots and untie very well.


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## Thillmaine

*Bullrope*

9/16th stable braid. This rope is strong.. I repeat strong. I have used it to pull an f-250 diesel out of a ditch, really yarning on it. Heavy truck with the diesel motor. A bit weird for tying knots I have some old climbing rope for rigging in the tree. just my 2 cents


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## treeman82

For pulling over large trees I have a mix of 3/4" stable braid and 5/8" stable braid.


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## Fireaxman

moray said:


> Anyone use nylon? The local pro, who is an old-timer and works alone, uses 3/4" nylon 3-strand. When he needs to pull something, he pulls hard with his truck and sets the brake. I've seen him put 6 or 8 feet of stretch into the rope. Then he makes his final cut to release the wood. All that energy stored in the nylon produces a nice fast pull.



Be VERY careful using nylon or any rope with stretch. If it does break, it can come back at you like a big bad rubber band. We lost a deck hand on a work boat offshore when the 2" nylon hawser he had secured in heavy seas to a platform bit broke at the platform and took off his head. I broke a new 1/2 nylon 3 strand with a 3130 Kubota about 40 feet from the tractor. It made the box blade ring like I had hit it with a hammer.

I vote for 5/8 stable braid.


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## rebelman

200' of 5/8. 100' of one inch. Heavy yes, but the confidence factor goes way up, and that helps. I have my groundmen lay it out for me after they untie it.


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## Gscotth

*Also In Need of Guidance*

Looking for help in selecting the best rope for pulling trees. Most trees I work with are about 18-30 inches in diameter Oak. My normal method is to establish the desired fall line, attach my pulling rope to the tree at as high as possible and then attach to my tractor and establish tension on the line. Then begin cutting with my chain saw. When I get ready for the final cut I apply more tension on the line and finish the cut. (Of course I always establish a clear line of retreat at right angle to the intended fall line before I cut.) I’ve been getting by with 100 ft 5/8 braided nylon but it’s only rated at about 4000lbs and I don’t feel safe with it for the larger trees and leaning trees where I need to put more pressure on the line. Planning on getting a pulley to allow me to offset the pressure and avoid getting lashed if a rope breaks. 

Obviously I am not a professional arborist - Just a homeowner with about 18 acres of 60% wooded property to maintain. In the next few months I have to take down some trees leaning over our pole barn and I want to make sure the rope doesn't fail me. I've never missed a 'drop zone' yet and with these trees I can't afford too now. Can't afford to hire the pros to take all these down and I'm not about to start climbing these trees and let the wife collect my insurance early. I have 1 or 2 I may have to let the pros do but for the other 6-10 I can get it done if I have the right rope.

Thanks for any recommendations you can provide.


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## Grace Tree

You can pick up 150 ft. of 1/2" Husky rigging rope for around 100 bucks. That's 9000 lb. rope. Assuming you're using a steady pull with the tractor and not a rolling start "jerk", it should be enough for what your doing. I'd suggest that you pick up 150 ft. of cheap throw line and a throw bag to place your pull line as high in the tree as you can. Leverage is king and a 50' lever is better than a 30' lever so the higher the better. Learn a couple of easily untied arborist knots and make sure there's good attachment to the tractor with no sharp bends that will reduce rope strength. Good luck and thanks for bringing up an old thread. I'd forgotten how many interesting members aren't here any longer.
Phil


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## AT sawyer

Ever used a Griphoist? My favorite non-motorized machine. Pricey retail, but only a couple hundred bucks on Ebay. Uses a steel cable and puts any other come-a-long to shame. Once you have one, you'll use it for everything except making breakfast.

http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/150714.htm


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## lone wolf

kennertree said:


> I have never broke a half inch line trying to pull over a heavy leaner. When a half inch line is broke it's usually due to leaving too much holding wood or just pulling too dang hard which runs the risk of a barber chair.



Then you aint pulling very hard because you can break that size rope very easily!We are talking about with a truck right?


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## capetrees

5/8 Tree Master. Never failed. Attach it as high as possible and pull. Good for offsetting also. 12K breaking strength.


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## defensiblespace

If you are just pulling trees over, I recommend arborplex or a 3 strand rope like promaster. You can find them on the Wesspur site. They are fairly inexpensive for arborist ropes, but strong enough to get the job done. I would choose your thickness depending on the application you are using it for. I personally use 3/4 arborplex. It has gone through hundreds of cycles of pulling trees and is still in great shape. It is also a fairly easy rope to tie and untie knots.


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## sgreanbeans

If you cut your notch right and have the right amount of holding wood, it shouldn't matter what type of rope u use. If you pull and the rope breaks, then u didn't have it cut right. Very rarely do I ever hook up to a vehicle/machine. If you have blocks, or even some biners, u can set up a hasty fiddle block set up and give you groundies the power of 5. I seen a guy try and pull a tree over with his F-250, had about 30% holding wood, it came over a bit then decided to set back, pulling the back end of the truck up in the air. That is when I stepped in, told that crew to get outa the way, smacked a wedge in to get space for my bar, zipped it real quick then pushed the tree over by hand. All about the holding wood. Dude was mad and glad at the same time, didnt like me barging on his job, I didnt care, someone was going to get hurt. He was glad that the tree was on the ground and so was his truck. Home owner couldn't thank me enough, he was so shaken I thought he was going to hyperventilate. Other tree guy slid me a bill, I gave it back and told him to buy some education.
When I do hook up to a machine, old triple strand is what I use. I only hook up if I do not want to be near the tree when it does come over (no good escape), most of the time, I stay right there, until its on the ground. When chunking down a big log that has a small drop zone, I will throw a line around, and tie it off to my machine, just to make it easier on the me when I am in the air. I am pretty small, so I need the extra muscle!


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## RVALUE

I have snapped a 1/2 cable, (probably at a weak spot or knot) and went to a 5/8 cable and swaged hook.

Haven't broke that yet!

We pull out some decent sized trees.


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## climberjones

Fireaxman said:


> Be VERY careful using nylon or any rope with stretch. If it does break, it can come back at you like a big bad rubber band. We lost a deck hand on a work boat offshore when the 2" nylon hawser he had secured in heavy seas to a platform bit broke at the platform and took off his head. I broke a new 1/2 nylon 3 strand with a 3130 Kubota about 40 feet from the tractor. It made the box blade ring like I had hit it with a hammer.
> 
> I vote for 5/8 stable braid.



Is that hawser rope black ive got about 2 or three hundred foot of some big black rope probably at least two inch that i bought from a guy that said it was off a tug boat sure would like to know the load rating on the stuff ?


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## Bomber

I was trained that if you can't drop a tree or stalk by hand using straight rope or blocks and pullies you should limb it out and rope it down. I mostly use half inch. Pulling a leaning tree over with a machine you can never tell exactly how much force your putting on that rope and how much damage is occuring to the fibers. Plus to me it looks unprofessional.


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## Ax-man

"Unprofessional" to use a vehicle , can you explain that one??? I really don't see where it makes that much difference as far as your professionalism goes using one method or another. Whatever is the easiest and fastest to set-up to get the job done is what matters.


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## Bomber

Ax-man said:


> "Unprofessional" to use a vehicle , can you explain that one??? I really don't see where it makes that much difference as far as your professionalism goes using one method or another. Whatever is the easiest and fastest to set-up to get the job done is what matters.



I have never needed a vehicle to take a tree down. Always done it by hand rigging or cranes. When a homeowner or landscraper is taking down a leaning tree it is always tied to a vehicle. I just see it as unprofessional, why hire an arborist to do what a homeowner can do with a couple of friends, truck (with banjo music playing), and a case of beer.
We all have been trained differently so to each his own.


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## ozzy42

I've never NEEDED a truck to pull a tree ,but have used one many times .
Used one today to pull the stick over .It's just easier when a little persuasion is called for.


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## Bobby Lee Wayne

I use that big fat red and white rope they sell at Lowes, I cant break it and either can my buddys, we dont use trucks, so why buy a expensive rope if your doing it by hand? I can get 200ft for 80 dollars.


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## Wiz

In the morning I'm going to remove a 24 in dia. pine 10 ft. from my house. I could cut it, it's already leaning in the direction I want it to go. But, I want to remove the stump too. So, I'm going to put a 3/4 or 7/8 arborist bull rope 20,000 lb breaking strength thru a major crotch about 15 ft or so up. Then I'm going to run the line down the trunk putting 2 half hitches on the way with a timber hitch near the base. That will go to a 24,000 lb block with a tenex securing line tied to the base of a strong tree. From there to my F350 6.0 diesel 4 wheel drive with 2 tons of pellets in the bed. I'll tie off to the front loops. I'll put a little tension on the line. Then I'm going to cut some major roots opposite the pull. It may go just cutting the roots with a saws all. Then pull in 4 low slowly and observe to see if it's going to take the stump. If yes bring it down. If not notch and cut away. It would be nice to get that stump out. Maybe not professional but the stump is the problem. I almost ran over there and cut it a few months ago, That's when I thought this is worth a try.


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## capetrees

Interested to see if it works. Gotta get the process on video to post in here later.


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## Wiz

That tree after blowing all the needles from around the base and cutting two major roots and maybe 8 more, Did not budge.

I pulled until my tires were spinning. Nothing. So part B cut her down and that is what I did.

So now I have a mass of roots and a stump to deal with.
I'm thinking about fabricating a root tooth for my Kubota and start the process off digging and cutting roots.

Unless! Someone here has a great idea on how to remove this without burning or hiring a stump grinder.

I was hooked at least 20 feet up, I can't believe it didn't budge.

Wiz


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## Zale

I can. Rent a stump grinder.


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## BC WetCoast

Guys doing stumps cheap sound like they are a dime a dozen. Even paying a couple hundred bucks would be cheaper and easier than fabricating a tooth for the excavator. And less likely to do major damage to your property.


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## TheJollyLogger

Maybe if you had invented square wheels for your truck they wouldn't have spun, and you ccould have pulled it on over. 

Sorry, not being mean or sarcastic on purpose, just making a point. Tree workat this point is in a fairly mature stage of development. Any improvements at this point will be evolutionary, not revolutionary. The best way to take care of the tree you have described is to remove the tree and then grind the stump. Period.Honestly, by the time you're done dicking around with everything you're talking about about a pro job is gonna look mighty cheap.


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## pro94lt

Wow


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## ArtB

_I pulled until my tires were spinning. 
I was hooked at least 20 feet up, I can't believe it didn't budge.
_
Have pulled a few hundred trees up to 48" dbh and 155 ft tall clearing driveways and short roads.
Only have a up to 7 ton machines (small track loader, backhoe, etc) so with those small machines need to pull the entire tree to get big root balls out, stump grinding not an option on a road base.

Here is an example of what it takes to pull a 4 ft dia tree - double 5/8" wire rope, 2 blocks, 10 Ton winch with 3/8" wire rope to first block, 1/2" wire rope to 2nd block, which pulls on the doubled 5/8. 5/8 looped around trunk above heavy branch 70 (seventy) feet up.
3.5Ton Winch truck tied to > 2 ft dia other tree at base - then barely pulled the 4ft dia tree over, the winch was straining. Close to 300,000 ft-# torque on root ball. A PU truck and rope 20 ft up will be lucky to pull 1/10th that. 

The big guys that clear roads for a living out here in big tree country have 30 ton (and bigger) machines to root out big stumps. A 7 ton machine can only nibble at a big root - a 'toy' Kabota will do nothing on a big stump. One time 45 years ago, took me 2 days to get a 5 ft dia DFir stump out with a D2 cat. 
I've seen big developers here move in a D10 cat for a small 5 acre housing development.


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## czbigoaks

So where is the best place to buy rope?


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## beastmaster

Any of the sponsers that sell gear has rope . I like "treestuff".
I use 1/2 in three strand to pull over must trees, have used 1in. bullrope if the situation warrents its.


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## Fireaxman

Wiz said:


> That tree after blowing all the needles from around the base and cutting two major roots and maybe 8 more, Did not budge.
> 
> I pulled until my tires were spinning. Nothing. So part B cut her down and that is what I did.
> 
> So now I have a mass of roots and a stump to deal with.
> I'm thinking about fabricating a root tooth for my Kubota and start the process off digging and cutting roots.
> 
> Unless! Someone here has a great idea on how to remove this without burning or hiring a stump grinder.
> 
> I was hooked at least 20 feet up, I can't believe it didn't budge.
> 
> Wiz


You never know until you try. I have pulled over several trees more than 2 feet DBH with a 3130 Kubota and 3/4 Stable Braid. Figured if a hurricane can do it, I can do it. I just grub around them with a weighted box blade with a couple of scouring teeth set as deep as they will set, then break the bigger surface roots with my Front End Loader. But, I tie in with twice the height you tried, at least 40 feet or 2/3 of the height of the tree.

Lots of variables, among them type of tree, strength and length of the stem, weight and COG of the crown, root structure, soil type, moisture, and proximity to other trees. Pines often have a deep tap root, very hard to pull over, unless they are in a very tight soil type (like the very tight clay common in my area) where they cant get a root down or a very wet, soggy location where the roots just have nothing to hold them. Hard for even a pine to get a deep root into hard, dry clay. Soggy, wet clay can let a root penetrate pretty deeply, but of course if it is wet enough, like next to a pond or after a period of very heavy rain, you may be able to pull it over anyway. If the tree is close to other trees, the roots may entwine, or even graft to one another, providing a support structure that makes it difficult to pull one out by the roots, and even if you do pull it out you risk damage to the root structure of surrounding trees.

Tallo trees have a very shallow, weak root structure and pull over pretty easily. Black Gum has a very deep root structure and even a small one can be extremely difficult to pull over. Oak can be easy or hard depending on soil type, moisture, and proximity to more deeply rooted trees.

So --- yes, it can be done. Just have to look at the situation and decide if the desired result will be probable enough and profitable enough to justify the effort.


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## RVALUE

It all depends on the species, and ground. I pulled on a sweet gum (80 footer) until its top was almost on the ground. It didn't budge. I then saw that if something gave away, it could throw a 20 pound piece (chain, snatch, hook etc.) a mile. Slight exaggeration, but I don't think you can pull out a sweet gum in dry dirt. With any puller. And I cut the back roots. 

Ended up cutting it and having it ground....


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## woodchuck357

I have used about every method to pull trees aginst the lean and have never seen a barber chair from pulling. The omly problem I have seen from using a winch is most are to slow. I like using the rubber band effect of my one inch nylon rope for pulling trees where it will work but mostly rely on cable thru a snatch block to what ever vehicle is most appro to the job.
I have never been around a leaner that was being pulled that had to small of a notch.


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## fearofpavement

I pulled a leaning oak away from a building today using a 3/4" rope, 6" block and a truck. Hope using the truck doesn't make me a non professional, because I fully expect the customer to pay their invoice.


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## ArtB

I have ONLY used plow steel wire rope 3/8" or larger or grade 80 alloy chain for pulling any tree out here in W WA. Do not have any 2" Kevlar rope <G>. Guess you could use rope on little 5" trees? 
Last week I BROKE a 3/4" wire rope choker (mistreated it, about 100k pounds applied) - 5 blocks, 4X on 4 line 3/8 wire rope from 12,000# winch, then 2x on 5/" wire rope blocks, final 2x with double grade 80 alloy 7/16" chain. 60# or pulleys (blocks) thrown 20 ft due to stored strain energy. Pulling 22 inch cherry root ball out of ground with choker at 8 ft height. 
For a 12,000# winch, you need to tie the back of the truck to a big stump or tree or you simply skid a loaded 3/4T truck across the ground.


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## TheJollyLogger

The problem I have always seen trying to uproot trees rather than drop and grind is the unpredictability factor... equipment failure, or just unintended consequences from the roots... seems like most guys are just trying to avoid paying for a stump grinder, which just isn't that expensive considering the risks...


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## Tigwelder83

So we literally just pulled that maple over today with 1/2, 3 strand rope. We set 2 lines, one to a rope jack, another to a re-direct & a farmi winch on a 5k compact tractor. We just kept ample tension on the tree while the feller applied wedges very liberally. Its the combination that brings success. Not just brute force.


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## TheJollyLogger

Tigwelder83 said:


> So we literally just pulled that maple over today with 1/2, 3 strand rope. We set 2 lines, one to a rope jack, another to a re-direct & a farmi winch on a 5k compact tractor. We just kept ample tension on the tree while the feller applied wedges very liberally. Its the combination that brings success. Not just brute force.View attachment 915930


So you didn't actually read the original post...


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## Tigwelder83

TheJollyLogger said:


> So you didn't actually read the original post...


Did I not answer his question of what size and type of rope used? I didn't know the brand, so I didn't guess at who made it.


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## Wow

talcott said:


> hello
> 
> i am a power lineman by trade and i also do line clearance. i sometimes have to use a bull rope to pull a tree over or just for a lil insurance that the tree doesnt get away from me.
> 
> what type of rope and what size do you pros use?
> 
> i climb poles but not trees...i use a bucket to top out the trees.
> 
> thank you
> 
> talcott


I'm a guy who rather go to big than to small..I use a 1/2 inch climbing rope to pull my Bull rope up over a limb and my Bull Rope is 3/4 double Braided Nylon.. Back in the day it cost about 300 bucks for 150 foot hank..I've used it to pull a huge tree between two houses..The trick I use is The big rope and a climbing line as a guide line if I have to be Spot on..I cut the back cut to the point the rope is not loaded much to get the tree over..The danger of a Bull rope is SLACK in the line..In my case the guide line can keep it in the fall once it's started over..I'm sure other guys may have their own tricks..


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## Wow

Ax-man said:


> Personally I prefer the 1/2 Tru-Blue 12 strand from Samson, it is strong, relatively cheap and it will stretch alot when tensioned, when the tree starts to commit to the fall that stretch acts like a rubber band and helps the tree along. I don't do much vehicle pulling as we tend to use winches more than vehicles.
> 
> If you think you have to have a actual bull rope and heavy truck to pull a tree over nothing wrong with 5/8 Arbor Plex, same rubber band principle as that rope has a lot of stretch in it too, decent price and is also made by Samson. We have used our Arbor Plex bull rope to pull over many a big nasty tree with a 2 ton truck.
> 
> It isn't so much the rope as it the guy doing the cutting at the bottom and leverage you can get on the tree and the proper timing when to start the pull on the tree. A sloppy mismatched backcut to the notch and a thick hinge trying to overpower the tree with a big truck and rope is not a good way to get a tree down.
> 
> Larry


OMG..I got that SICK feeling when you mentioned the thick hinge and the rope.. I have a fear of a rope snapping and the Tree breaking backwards..I've never seen it but I've heard about it.. The guy made a (improper back cut ) a Steep back cut angled downward thinking that was a good idea. Then they pulled on the THICK hinge until the rope broke..The tree had been pulled over some but snapped backwards ( like a bow and arrow) releasing it's energy and the hinge broke..according to the story teller no one was killed but just thinking about that makes my gut hurt.. If I'd noticed something like that I'd have wedged up got the load off the line and thinned the hinge a little bit more.. BUT,, I'd never have made an angled back cut..that's not how I was taught..Others may do it and like it but not me..just my opinion, not starting anything..


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## Wow

Did you think about applying w


Wiz said:


> That tree after blowing all the needles from around the base and cutting two major roots and maybe 8 more, Did not budge.
> 
> I pulled until my tires were spinning. Nothing. So part B cut her down and that is what I did.
> 
> So now I have a mass of roots and a stump to deal with.
> I'm thinking about fabricating a root tooth for my Kubota and start the process off digging and cutting roots.
> 
> Unless! Someone here has a great idea on how to remove this without burning or hiring a stump grinder.
> 
> I was hooked at least 20 feet up, I can't believe it didn't budge.
> 
> Wiz


water to the roots? Maybe a pressure washer? Just thinking..wondering..by hitching up high and loading it and using the tree's own weight and leverage just maybe washing the roots would have worked.. BUT.. the problem with a PINE is the Tap root under ground is about as big as the tree stump above ground.. I've dug them out before.. It's a job..Now an Oak with it's root ball might have been easier and even easier with water..Down in the swamps a good blow can blow a huge oak over if there's a lot of rain that years and the ground is really wet..I've cut a many like that.. The Danger is the huge Root Ball. If you are blocking from the top toward the bottom or stump..At some point the weight of the root ball is heavier than the last piece you cut off and it can just, without warning sit back in the stump hole....Don't want kids and dogs around when cutting up a tree with big root ball..


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## TheTreeSpyder

So if a tree has telephone pole balance of CoG directly over hinge pivot; half the weight is pulling forward and half backward without side lean. We virtually simply tip the balance of forces with wedge or rope to fell home to target. Forces greater than that can make stronger/thicker hinge before beast breathes/moves on own or faster fall on input forces after tree committed.
.
If rope is 40' up from hinge pivot and pulled at 1000#, yields 40k forward force on hinge, how much do we need? To require much more force to upgrade to bull rope?? How high is CoG? Are we past it? More higher rigid pull points instead of thicker rope? This should be more overwhelming force yes, but gingerly applied w/plenty of headroom, not scared gunning, especially of gas.

I prefer if using truck as input, sound ground, weight loaded over rear axle, plenty of gas and a low pulley redirect so no upward force on truck as tensions to lift some and reduce traction some. Plus gives more angles of pull with truck..
.
If forward lean , odds even more in favor, balance already tipped, more input on target axis makes thicker/stronger hinge. If some side lean I prefer forward pull to thicker hinge more likely to be able to ballast against sideLean especially as Tapered Hinge(link). Pulls/pushes against sideLean lose longer term hinge leverage vs. confronting sideLean more temporarily and directly as not routing thru hinge multiplier.
.
Rear Lean different, draw CoG uphill to over hinge pivot, then proceeds home to splash down side. Hard to work Tapered Hinge, so favor no sideLean. Step Dutch can help sway from hazard on splash down side, but risky.


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## TheJollyLogger

Why would you rope a forward lean?


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## TheTreeSpyder

Stronger hinge, slower fall, stronger hinge can also help fight sideLean. Also, just to exercise such control for when really needed.
.
Sometimes might not fall directly into lean so that less direct ground hit and load on hinge, and then stronger hinge forced with rope.
i look at false loading before commitment exercises hinge stronger, then once committed and relieve extra load on hinge is like runner working out with backpack and throwing that extra weight off, now stronger w/o extra load. A wedge does give lift, rotate then relief as tree commits more to this pattern, with rope can control longer but need to meter how long you pull.
Some shorter trees can about be arm wrestled to ground, showing extra control time on hinge.
.
Have taken concept into tree to force stronger hinge, even to rigging with rope midway almost to CoG and forcing stronger hinge almost as an also butt tie support, that can be cut off, use while pivot load into position on hinge, then cut free. Actually started that with extra short rope on butt for same purpose, use to position load more under rope support, then undo quick release, even cut thru a few times. Worked like a charm, then figured why cut hinge fiber and replace with rope fiber..
.
Especially in more vertical felling, like if sitting at 10degrees 12degrees lean will have 20% of leveraged load exercising hinge to strength X, pulls over earlier and thicker with high leverage rope. In either case, by the time gets to 24degrees(i look at this in 6degree increments like clock that hit such round numbers) will have 40% leveraged load against hinge forced at 20% with or without the extra 'exercise' but also X speed SQUARED. So, the exercise more prepares tree for journey on hinge of increasing difficulty. Horizontal rigging sweep across has no sideways pressure(only downward) on it to force strong hinge cleanly into face, until add extra rope to induce this, now once again stronger hinge, and then another rope helping to rig usually in orchestration.


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## esshup

I have a 150' piece of 1/2" Amsteel that I use to help direct the fall when I can't direct it with the hinge and wedges. Thimbles in the ends of it, no knots. Usually tied to a 65 hp tractor. I have a big stainless pulley and 1" bull rope that is used sometimes if the tractor can't be in the position that I need it to be. I can usually put the pulley on another tree and have the tractor wherever it needs to be. I use a throw line to get the pull rope up in the tree. Before the thimble was put on that end a 10' chafe protector sleeve was slipped over the 1/2" rope.


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## EchoRomeoCharlie

99% of my tree pulling action is with 5/8" stable braid and it's been great for both pulling and rigging down some pretty big stuff. 

If I were putting together a starter tree pulling kit for a guy that planned on pulling a good amount of trees with trucks/tractors/skid steers/winches etc: 
Throwline kit
200' of 5/8" stable braid(or whatever quality rope brand you like)
2 slings for attaching the blocks
2 5/8" arborist blocks(the cheap steel ones, not the expensive aluminum ones)
A book on how to properly tie girth hitch, half hitch, clove hitch, running bowline, and bowline on a bight. The first three for attaching the throw line securely to the pull rope and the last two for attaching pull rope to tree and pull rope to pulling device. You could also use a farmers loop or an alpine butterfly as a midline loop, however, I find those are a bit harder to untie after a significant load.


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