# How loud is tree removal gear.



## EdenT (Dec 11, 2009)

I am doing an assignment on the safety aspects of tree removal equipment. I am chasing the sound level figures for a Bandit 1590XP chipper. Has anyone ever tested it or seen the real figures? Bandit tells us what the noise level is at 50' but I am interested in what the operator is subjected to.

While we're at it if anyone has any figures for any of the gear, saws, loaders, stumpgrinders etc, it would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## treemandan (Dec 11, 2009)

Ain't nothing like personal experiance to figure the answer to a question like that.


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## fishercat (Dec 11, 2009)

*call a local tree service in your area.*

i'm sure they would let you listen or record the noise if you weren't too close to the action.


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## EdenT (Dec 12, 2009)

Thanks. I know how loud they are. I do actually work with them everyday. I am after a dB reading. Reads better in assignments than 'pretty ####ing noisy!'


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## EdenT (Dec 12, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Tree gear was pretty loud when I first got into the biz but these days its quieted down quite a bit and I can hardly hear it.



OK I'll bite. Can you hear much of anything? Or has the equipment improved that much? I am desperately hoping you have been in the tree business longer than 6 months.


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## outofmytree (Dec 12, 2009)

The Bandit 1590xp is whisper quiet....




















from the inside of the airconditioned ute!

"Whats that you say ground crew?" 

"Some chipping to do?" 

"Good idea. You start her up and I will pitch in as soon as I finish this _*IMPORTANT*_ phone call."


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## Koa Man (Dec 12, 2009)

Just get a decibel meter. I have one on my IPhone.


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## treemandan (Dec 12, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Just kidding!
> 
> After 22 years my hearing is still good. I do wear PPE.
> 
> ...



It sure is.


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## treemandan (Dec 12, 2009)

But all kidding aside ( like my first post): What the #### is someone who has no idea about how loud the stuff is writing about it for? Its not hard to answer your question you dingbat, go stand next to a running machine and take your self-righteous stupid question ass somewhere else... through the chipper is my advise you straight up wanker.


It also takes a toll on the attitude Dan, sorry.


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## outofmytree (Dec 13, 2009)

Don't mind Dan he just barks a lot. Kinda like the dog next to your last job that wouldnt shut up until a branch "accidently" fell on it.....

Try inverting the formula for calculating db at range. Each doubling of distance roughly reduces noise levels by 6db. So halving it should add 6 db.... I think. So if a 1590 is roughly 85db at 50 feet according to the EPA, then it should be roughly 91db at 25 feet, 97db at 12 feet, 103db at 6 feet and 109db at 3 feet. So operators should experience noise in the range of 97to 109 db on that math.


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## treemandan (Dec 13, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Don't mind Dan he just barks a lot. Kinda like the dog next to your last job that wouldnt shut up until a branch "accidently" fell on it.....
> 
> Try inverting the formula for calculating db at range. Each doubling of distance roughly reduces noise levels by 6db. So halving it should add 6 db.... I think. So if a 1590 is roughly 85db at 50 feet according to the EPA, then it should be roughly 91db at 25 feet, 97db at 12 feet, 103db at 6 feet and 109db at 3 feet. So operators should experience noise in the range of 97to 109 db on that math.



In other words: Its loud mother####er OK?


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## EdenT (Dec 13, 2009)

Thank you for the helpful advice OOMT. 

TreeManDan, I am terribly sorry if my 'self-righteous stupid question ass' offended you. I cannot help the fact that some 'dingbat', 'straight up wanker' like myself is forced to answer pointless ####ing questions like this to pass an OHS unit. My answer would be 'loud enough to wear hearing protection you dumb ####' but that just doesn't cut it.

This is the Arborist 101 forum is it not? Really nice to meet you!


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## Tree Pig (Dec 13, 2009)

Dude dont get all worked up If Dan says its loud trust me its loud... Havent you seen the ears on Dan.


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## EdenT (Dec 13, 2009)

Point taken!


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## Plasmech (Dec 13, 2009)

treemandan said:


> In other words: Its loud mother####er OK?



Dan! Be nice!


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## outofmytree (Dec 13, 2009)

You know what I think? I think its chipper envy that has Dans panties in a twist. Hey big guy, I got 140hp and a 17" intake parked in MY driveway.


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## treemandan (Dec 13, 2009)

I apologize for my outburst.


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## treemandan (Dec 13, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> You know what I think? I think its chipper envy that has Dans panties in a twist. Hey big guy, I got 140hp and a 17" intake parked in MY driveway.



Yes, chipper envy, ya pegged me.


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## lone wolf (Dec 13, 2009)

Koa Man said:


> Just get a decibel meter. I have one on my IPhone.



hey how do you get that feature i like that idea?


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## Koa Man (Dec 13, 2009)

Just go to the IPhone app store and search for Sound Level. The free one goes to 90db. Pay $1.99 for the paid app and get 30-110db range with +/- 2db accuracy.


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## Tree Pig (Dec 13, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> You know what I think? I think its chipper envy that has Dans panties in a twist. Hey big guy, I got 140hp and a 17" intake parked in MY driveway.





treemandan said:


> Yes, chipper envy, ya pegged me.



Frig now I have chipper envy too you bastard.


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 13, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Try inverting the formula for calculating db at range. Each doubling of distance roughly reduces noise levels by 6db. So halving it should add 6 db.... I think. So if a 1590 is roughly 85db at 50 feet according to the EPA, then it should be roughly 91db at 25 feet, 97db at 12 feet, 103db at 6 feet and 109db at 3 feet. So operators should experience noise in the range of 97to 109 db on that math.



Correct. And each 6db increase creates an apparent doubling of sound level. However, this can be impacted by other objects either reflecting or blocking sound levels. But overall is a good textbook calculation. That is in the same approximate sound level as a rock band concert.. best keep on PPE


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## EdenT (Dec 13, 2009)

*Thanks Guys*

Thanks all for your contributions. 

TMD sorry I caught you on a bad day.

Anyhows I have to go and listen to a rock concert in green. Have a great day Y'all.


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## outofmytree (Dec 14, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Frig now I have chipper envy too you bastard.



:hmm3grin2orange:


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## treeslayer (Dec 14, 2009)

Koa said buy a decibel meter, Dan said do your own damm assignment, (I think )

I'm guessing you are young. the answers are easy, with a little work performed besides typing. arborist 101 still requires more effort than asking silly questions. this being IMHO.

I have 4 teenagers, amazing what kids expect others to do.

check out Plas, he wrote the book, and actually has learned his $hit.


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## Plasmech (Dec 14, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> Koa said buy a decibel meter, Dan said do your own damm assignment, (I think )
> 
> I'm guessing you are young. the answers are easy, with a little work performed besides typing. arborist 101 still requires more effort than asking silly questions. this being IMHO.
> 
> ...



I have a dB meter. Next time I'm around Dan's Bandit 90 XP I'll measure it.


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## treeslayer (Dec 14, 2009)

Jeez, Plas, dan has you measuring his stuff? 

don't do EVERYTHING he says! 
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. NOT pennsylvania.


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## Plasmech (Dec 14, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> Jeez, Plas, dan has you measuring his stuff?
> 
> don't do EVERYTHING he says!



ha yea right


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## Plasmech (Dec 14, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I beleive it is 10db that creates an apparent doubling of loudness.
> 
> I've got a db meeter from the seventies that I used to set up equalizers using pink noise bands on a vinyl record. It took into account riaa...room effect and speakers! It took a long time to set up a system and I moved to a real time analyzer in the early eighties.



Yea, it's a logarithmic scale, not linear.


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## outofmytree (Dec 14, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Yea, it's a logarithmic scale, not linear.



Of course it's *log*arithmic this is tree work after all.:monkey:


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## Plasmech (Dec 14, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> The Fletcher–Munson curve also affects perceived loudness.



Interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves


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## arbor pro (Dec 14, 2009)

The first source that came to my mind is OSHA. I don't like govt regulatory agencies any more than anyone else but, if someone's going to monitor the loudness of equipment, it's going to be OSHA. I know they have noise limits which a piece of equipment can't excede. I would think that it would be public information to inquire as to whether or not they have actual readings on particular saws, chippers, grinders, etc.

A google search of OSHA might give a contact number as a starting place...?


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## BC WetCoast (Dec 14, 2009)

113 dBa for the average drum chipper
101 dBa for the average disc chipper

http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=2264&Type=2

Page 3, right hand column just above the diagram

7th item down on my first google search. Time to learn how to do your own research.


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## EdenT (Dec 15, 2009)

Treeco, I have to disagree, the loudest noise a chipper makes is when one end of the branch is being touched by the knives and the other end comes into contact with your earmuff.

BC - Google???? what the hell is that? I was looking for specifics, not averages. But what did you put in as your search argument. From memory I put in ''sound pressure level wood chippers bandit 1590XP", and variations thereof. Incidentally I would have visited 40+ pages looking for the required info.

In fact it was OOMT's suggestion of re-arranging the formula that sorted it for me, I simply did not think of doing that. Once he suggested it and I had done it I had my answer.

Incidentally I handed in the (final) assignment yesterday but you can all keep telling me to do my research if it makes you feel good. I only wish you had all been there to help me pass the climbing exam!opcorn:


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## treemandan (Dec 15, 2009)

I would think the the loudest noise would be when the material is cut and thrown agaisnt the metal inside. Sounds like the loudest on my chipper but I don't know.
So EdenT, you an OSHA rep?


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## outofmytree (Dec 15, 2009)

Nah, everyone knows the loudest noise on a chipper is the one I make when you pick up a handful of gravel with that brush and throw it through my brand-new-just-bolted-in-knives. Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bang:


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## Plasmech (Dec 15, 2009)

The centrifugal fan in a chipper, which on a modern hydraulic feed type chipper is integral to the flywheel and cutting disc, makes a lot of noise itself. The scroll type design of the housing is very similar to that of a siren. You can hear the siren effect more clearly on the older chuck-and-duck type chippers.


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## EdenT (Dec 15, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I would think the the loudest noise would be when the material is cut and thrown agaisnt the metal inside. Sounds like the loudest on my chipper but I don't know.
> So EdenT, you an OSHA rep?



Heck Dan, if i was an OSHA rep I wouldn't even know what a chipper was, I would just demand that they be banned from the world because they're sooo dangerous and noisy (and not safe for kiddies to play with). 

I am a firm believer of safety in the workplace but I am more in line with your own common sense approach. I don't need to know how many dB, just that it's loud and me and my crew will suffer injury if we don't wear PPE.


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 15, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I beleive it is 10db that creates an apparent doubling of loudness.
> 
> I've got a db meeter from the seventies that I used to set up equalizers using pink noise bands on a vinyl record. It took into account riaa...room effect and speakers! It took a long time to set up a system and I moved to a real time analyzer in the early eighties.



Gee may have to dig out my physics books an papers. (I studied Physics in the 1970's.. got my BSc .. and then never actually did any work in that area - oh well - tree work has something to do with physics)

There are three key names related to this that I can think of.. maybe more but this will give enough info.

Stanley Stephens - think he was from Harvard - did some of the first studies in this area in the 1950s - he published a paper and then later a book indicating that a 10db increase or decrease in sound level caused an apparent doubling or halving of the sound level to the human ear. This in fact was what many of us learned from using text books. 

Richard Warren also published some information in the 1970's which ranged from review of issues related perceived increasing intensity and the existing measurement scale. Richard concluded that sound level precept ion doubles at 6db.

More recently, John Neuhoff has written several papers and a book on this as well and he indicates that our hearing is more sensitive for rising sound levels than for declining levels - and that two scales should be used. Declining levels, according to John Neuhoff half at every 10db as per what was originally published by Stanley Stephens. However, rising sounds double every 6db - more in line with that stated by Richard Warren. (I will check my library if I still have, but believe my info on this may have come from the New York Academy of Science where I used to have membership)

So, there are several papers, publications and theories. When I studied, it was easy, but there are some conflicting theories now. My 6db was aligned to that stated by Richard Warren and then again by John Neuhoff. However, if you have older texts then they would likely quote 10db as doubling on rising sounds - as I had originally learned in University.

Ok.. enough trivia and drivel.


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 15, 2009)

EdenT said:


> I am a firm believer of safety in the workplace but I am more in line with your own common sense approach. I don't need to know how many dB, just that it's loud and me and my crew will suffer injury if we don't wear PPE.




Agreed!! Logical and works for me.


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 15, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> The Fletcher–Munson curve also affects perceived loudness.



I forgot all about this in my previous post, I think this was two gentlemen with last names of Fletcher and Munson. They did studies with frequencies, and then plotted across a graph - curves vary with frequency if I recall. This was done using the scale avaiable at the time using phons. A more recent measurement using sones was developed, and a lot of discussion has taken place on decibels, sones and phons. I think a more recent curve or refinement of the Fletcher-Muson work was also completed by two other gentlemen. Frankly not sure if we will ever get this figured out in solid terms, as it is so variable from one test subject to another.

Just enough to know that it is LOUD.. almost to the point of painful behind a chipper.. and make sure you have lots of good PPE on if using.


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