# Ok...can we talk about property damage on jobs?



## teamtree (Mar 9, 2014)

In the last year I became more of a manager than a foreman. For almost 14 years I took the crew to the job that I sold and led the team through the job. We had some mishaps and tore a gutter here, cracked some concrete there, rutted the yard over there. It was something that was more rare than common. 

Anyway, it seems we are running at 50% lately as far as whether we are damaging something or not. Not sure if I should send the crew out anymore becuase it just creates more work for me. I have to replace a basketball goal, replace some limestone caps on a wall, fix two lights, and level and reseed 3 yards. 

How are you guys dealing with this situation? 

Anybody offer an incentive for 0 losses? if so...how do you manage it? Does it work?


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## pro94lt (Mar 9, 2014)

I was a upper manager in a different industry with low skill/ low paid workers who flat out didn't care when left unattended. Corporate wouldn't pay more for better workers which would have solved it sounds like you need to micro-manage. But micro managing tree guys may lead to jobsite brawls sticking it to the man and vandalism. ..my only way of keeping these guys operating effectively was micromanaging them. Was a pain but had to be done. I would implement a monthly bonus to crews with no damage maybe cash maybe let em off Fridays at lunch? Lots of ways to motivate them. How much are they making? Now that I'm full time in the tree business I pay my guys well they appreciate it and take care of me. I'm just blessed to actually have great guys!!!


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## Toddppm (Mar 9, 2014)

What? Everybody here has never, ever damaged anything in their whole careers! Doesn't get discussed much anyways, when it is brought up all of the NEVER claims come out 

Set up a bonus system instead of a raise the next few times and deduct damage from that. You can't deduct damages from their regular paychecks but you can take it out of their performance bonuses.

I remember a time I broke a flagstone when I was climbing and the boss charged me for it, I don't know why but I was shocked he wanted me to pay for it. Guess I didn't really think about it because it was an accident but it could have been avoided. Our crew rarely damaged anything, EVER


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## no tree to big (Mar 9, 2014)

Damage on my crew is kinda rare Im sort of a Nazi when it comes to things. last year I think my crew broke one flower pot and left one rut when I had a guy pull way the hell off the road when we pulled up to the job (no curbs) that was fixed before we left the job and I think the flower pot cost 12 dollars. Now the other crews have a tendency to break those teak 800 dollar benches... We have just repaired them and all was good one was a fluke though, a throw ball ricochet was the culprit but we have no recourse as employees on damage never really had to many incidents to have to make it an issue. 

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## mckeetree (Mar 9, 2014)

teamtree said:


> How are you guys dealing with this situation?



I just don't put up with it. If I have a guy that is damaging things that often he just has to go.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 9, 2014)

The list of what I haven't broken is shorter then what I have ! Honestly you name it I've hit it . Other then fiber optic and gas lines ! But I've been working at this along time and most people who are honest have similar stories as me


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## ATH (Mar 9, 2014)

Make expectations clear. Maybe they think getting out of there 30 minutes quicker is more important that worrying about concrete damage. Even run the economics with them: "It costs me $150 to have the crew here for another hour...it will cost $800 to repair that sidewalk. That money doesn't come from no where...having to pay for that leaves me less room to ask for more pay for you all. Take the time you need to do a good clean job."


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 9, 2014)

A good clean job..... we actually had a customer that expected us to vac up the chips and sawdust!


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## pro94lt (Mar 9, 2014)

treeclimber101 said:


> The list of what I haven't broken is shorter then what I have ! Honestly you name it I've hit it . Other then fiber optic and gas lines ! But I've been working at this along time and most people who are honest have similar
> stories as me


Ever cut power to a neighborhood?


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## CanopyGorilla (Mar 9, 2014)

treeclimber101 said:


> The list of what I haven't broken is shorter then what I have ! Honestly you name it I've hit it . Other then fiber optic and gas lines ! But I've been working at this along time and most people who are honest have similar stories as me



Honesty!


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## pro94lt (Mar 9, 2014)

Seems I've really came close to killing dogs they always come running when I'm making the back cut or dropping a big limb


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## mckeetree (Mar 9, 2014)

pro94lt said:


> Seems I've really came close to killing dogs they always come running when I'm making the back cut or dropping a big limb



Never had that happen (killing a dog) but almost did and interestingly enough that is a recurring bad dream I've had for at least the past 25 years. I have that dream every four or five months.


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## BC WetCoast (Mar 10, 2014)

Every time we have damage, the crew member responsible has to do a 'mea culpa' at the weekly safety meeting, and often there is a spirited discussion on how it could be prevented in the future. To a certain extent a bit of peer pressure comes into effect. 

I think you have to look at each incident. 
Was the guy rushing because the job was underbid?
Did the crew not know how to work without damage?
Did the crew not bother to move things out of the way?
Did the crew cut and throw branches when they should have roped it.
Driving on lawn when they know it will rut?

These could either be training issues or supervision issues. That is, if the crew knows what to do and decides to get lazy, then perhaps they need to be verbally warned/written warned/suspended. 

If its a training issue, then the answer is obvious.

The crew foreman/leader is responsible for the performance of his crew, so if the problem is a groundie, then you and the foreman need to decide on a solution (change crews, termination, training).


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## imagineero (Mar 10, 2014)

Big rep for the above post! 

If you're running a high production crew at low cost and squeezing a lot of jobs in a day then you've gotta expect damage. It depends how you market your company too. There are guys out there that bid low and squeeze a lot of jobs in, they're a bit rough and ready, and don't necessarily cleanup too good after but the customers are generally not going to mind the odd fence paling cracked or lawn damage at that price. At the other end of the scale, some customers are super fussy and have highly technical trees over precious unmovable plants and want zero damage and full cleanup. That's just fine so long as they're willing to pay for it.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 10, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> Honesty!


Cut power to a neighbor ? I cut power to about 300 houses including a police station and 5 traffic lights ! I was removing a silver maple . Cut a small water spout and threw it down and a gust of wind laid it right across bare 3phase branch sat there fried .... Caught on fire for almost 5 minutes while the system tried to blow it off eventually it just shut down until the power company came out . Thank god I have a ehap card


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 10, 2014)

I have never really damaged anything from actual tree work. I did bust a single wood fence lathe, about 10 years ago, looked funny when I replaced it, a mile of old privacy fencing with one nice and shiny piece. I have busted a couple driveways from outriggers, blew out a cheap railroad tie wall and stained a custom stamped drive with hydraulic fluid. Big damage comes from bad planning and rushing chit. I try to see the future and safeguard against any damage. I always take before and after pics, making sure I document any damage to the property that was there before. I have had people try to blame me for chit I didnt do. Love there face when I show them pics proving I didnt.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 10, 2014)

Oh what you are leading us to believe is that you've never broken anything ? Well ok then , I need to go look in the mirror cause someone wrote jackass on my forehead !


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 10, 2014)

Sorry Eddie, honest truf. Like I said, I have busted stuff, but not from dropping something from a tree..........OK, I dented aluminum siding once, from a branch that bounced off the brush tips and shot sideways into the house. It was about a 1" dia and put a little ding in the siding.........does that count? And one more, I knocked off a gutter end cap once and scarred up some shingles from dropping a hickory, tree had a little branch swipe it on the way down. That is it tho. These where all in my early days, before I was enlightened by Yoda.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 10, 2014)

Yes it counts ..... And usually when I start a difficult job I will just get out of the truck and kick over a flower Potter or something just to try to get that off my mind of smashing something ! LOL


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## Raintree (Mar 10, 2014)

In my view it comes down to the leadership of the Foreman. May also be a good time for drug testing.

You want to see a bill? Grind out 4 large Honey Locust stumps during a drought next to a house with open windows on a breezy day.


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 10, 2014)

Raintree said:


> In my view it comes down to the leadership of the Foreman. May also be a good time for drug testing.
> 
> You want to see a bill? Grind out 4 large Honey Locust stumps during a drought next to a house with open windows on a breezy day.


I would blame the HO for that one. But I could imagine. My in laws used to be foster parents, they had a autistic boy who cooked his army men in the oven. Plastic dripped down to the bottom and smoked like crazy. The soot that came out put a fine film over everything in the house. That green company with the vans, savepro? They where there for 3 days with 5-6 people. Always wondered what that bill was, what was the one for the stumps?


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## TreeGuyHR (Mar 10, 2014)

I probably have the most obsession about avoiding damage in my area. I can count the incidents on one hand worth noting from the last 6 years: 
window, metal roof, wooden fence, bench, ruts.

I cut and tossed an over-grown cherry tree next to a summer home; last limb flipped over and bounced back, putting the 3 in. butt end through a sliding window.$600, and the owners replaced all the windows a year later (they were old metal frame ones, and I had to have the replacement custom made so it would match).

Did several take-downs and pruned a big fir adjacent to a log home and garage, both roofed with aluminum roofing made to look like tile and painted black. This was a while back, and I was still learning rigging. When taking tops out of the oak removal, I miss-judged the drop on two 20-30 foot tops and the tips brushed the roof; didn't think anything of it at thee time. Almost 2 years later, the owners called and accused me of denting their roof. I checked it out, and sure enough, there were around 20 small dents in a wide row leading down the roof right to the stump. I happened to have taken a "before" photo of the oak, and no dents. $1,480, only one company supplies and installs this stuff, located 4 hrs away.

I had my good climber take down a large beetle-kill pine. All went well until the top was rigged down; because he had used his favorite rigging scrap (mistake one) for the block instead of my new heavy rigging, when the haul rope caught around the block (mistake two) the scrap broke, and a thirty ft. top flattened around 20 ft. of wooden fence. Of course it was made of 5 rungs of 40 yr. old clear-fir 1 by 10 -- but I cheated, and used cheaper clear cedar to replace the wood. Around $500, if I paid myself $25 an hr.

I put my low-skill climber (since fired) in a modest sized-birch take down while I pruned a large oak nearby. I looked over when he was making his last cut: a 6 ft. piece around 18 in. thick , with a rope tied to it and looped around another tree --- which was around 90 degrees off the lay. Before I could get his attention, he cut it and it fell on a custom-made bench, but did miss the sidewalk formed in concrete 3-D Escher designs (fish). He blamed the groundie who held on to the rope, causing it to swing a bit and miss the sidewalk, hitting the bench. Luckily, it was really sturdy, and I just had to replace some slats (clear cedar 2 x 4 s). I guess that made sense. Around $200 to fix the bench, if I had paid myself. I don't want to think about what the sidewalk would have cost to fix.

Ruts were made all over a lawn under a big plane tree, put there by a lift truck run by a sub. I had to fix the ruts before the college graduation on the same patch of grass a month later. I brought in soil, cut out the turf by hand with a shovel, and leveled around 5000 sq. ft. Only sub I ever fired -- he not only destroyed the lawn, but did a hack job pruning the plane and another large red oak. I also had told him to meet me on site so that I could oversee the work (and see his paperwork), and instead he came on the weekend without telling me. Turned out he didn't pay into workers comp because all his workers were "family"--- after I told the college that I would make sure that the company was fully insured. $500 at $25 per hr. (if I had paid myself). Same guy makes hat racks all over the area, and sends poorly or untrained climbers to do take-downs he can't get to with his lift truck.


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## mic687 (Mar 10, 2014)

VA-Sawyer said:


> A good clean job..... we actually had a customer that expected us to vac up the chips and sawdust!


I had one of those I said no we don't do that.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 10, 2014)

Funniest thing is that my vac only blows !


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## gorman (Mar 10, 2014)

I put a hairline crack in a concrete walkway once. The owner wanted it replaced so I immediately got on the horn and had a guy come in and fix it. $550. The HO ended up leaving a really positive review on my google page.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 10, 2014)

A hairline crack ? LOL


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## mic687 (Mar 10, 2014)

I broke a plastic flower pot Saturday only thing we didn't move bounced a piece right into it. I am amazed how magnetic bird feeders and flower pots are to wood I thought they nonferrous when made of plastic


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## mic687 (Mar 10, 2014)

Planing to bust an elm off at the ground about 5 pm tonight


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## teamtree (Mar 10, 2014)

Well, over the years I have done my share of damage and probably it was just getting in a hurry. I tell people it isn't that we don't mistakes, it is how you deal with your mistakes.


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## beastmaster (Mar 11, 2014)

I'v done some damage over the years to be sure, but not on a regular basis. Before I start a job i try to eliminate most of the risk I can. Putting up plywood over windows moving things that could possibility be broke, rigging things if I feel it not a 100 %. We get jobs because we don't brake stuff. Sure sometimes sh_t happens, but if its happening on a regular basis, some one isn't doing their job right, or the crew has gotten lazy and not taking the proper steps to avoid breaking things.
I can sometimes make trees and limbs do amazing things, but I'll never risk something because I think I could swing the branch past it, or do a perfect snap cut. Lots of guys take risks, you shouldn't gamble with other peoples property just to appease your own ego or to save a few minuets. One mishap, distroying some thing of value can eat up all the money plus some on a job.
When I do brake something I feel really bad so I try to do every thing I can not to brake something.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 11, 2014)

I have damaged a few things over the years. A gutter, had a branch swing bad take out a power wire which cause about 15 homes to not have power, knocked down a house service wire and smashed a garden nome, cracked a sidewalk. Yesturday I was chipping arbs for a landscaper and went to pull out of the driveway and tacoed the **** out of the home owners driveway with the front tire of my chip truck.

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## sgreanbeans (Mar 11, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> I'v done some damage over the years to be sure, but not on a regular basis. Before I start a job i try to eliminate most of the risk I can. Putting up plywood over windows moving things that could possibility be broke, rigging things if I feel it not a 100 %. We get jobs because we don't brake stuff. Sure sometimes sh_t happens, but if its happening on a regular basis, some one isn't doing their job right, or the crew has gotten lazy and not taking the proper steps to avoid breaking things.
> I can sometimes make trees and limbs do amazing things, but I'll never risk something because I think I could swing the branch past it, or do a perfect snap cut. Lots of guys take risks, you shouldn't gamble with other peoples property just to appease your own ego or to save a few minuets. One mishap, distroying some thing of value can eat up all the money plus some on a job.
> When I do brake something I feel really bad so I try to do every thing I can not to brake something.


 A few minutes of risk mitigation before ya start, can save hours of pain later. I have gone to the extremes of removing a built in gas grill. It took about a hour, but was directly below the tree, I know it saves a ton of time not having to rig around it. I get a kick out of watching some tho, they will do everything they can to avoid hitting something below, like a bench, planter.........one of those shiny globe thingy's, instead of just moving the damn thing! We move every possible threat out of the way, even down spouts that are screwed in. They come off if any brush at all is going to go by them. If we cant move it, we try and protect it. I also use the hell out of plywood, it is a great protector.


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## mic687 (Mar 11, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> I'v done some damage over the years to be sure, but not on a regular basis. Before I start a job i try to eliminate most of the risk I can. Putting up plywood over windows moving things that could possibility be broke, rigging things if I feel it not a 100 %. We get jobs because we don't brake stuff. Sure sometimes sh_t happens, but if its happening on a regular basis, some one isn't doing their job right, or the crew has gotten lazy and not taking the proper steps to avoid breaking things.
> I can sometimes make trees and limbs do amazing things, but I'll never risk something because I think I could swing the branch past it, or do a perfect snap cut. Lots of guys take risks, you shouldn't gamble with other peoples property just to appease your own ego or to save a few minuets. One mishap, distroying some thing of value can eat up all the money plus some on a job.
> When I do brake something I feel really bad so I try to do every thing I can not to brake something.


I could not agree more, I think every tree guy is a show off on some level but jumping a log over a hedge just to make a ditch out of the yard not worth it. I have said many times I would rather rig it down in 1 foot chunks than damage anything. Fancy rigging can take time but it's pretty cool too.


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## Zale (Mar 11, 2014)

I have never broken anything on a job. I have also never pinched a saw, gotten my throw bag stuck, clogged the chipper, dulled a chainsaw, gotten the truck stuck, broken a window, broken a piece of flag stone, dented aluminum siding, put bar oil in the gas tank, broken a fence, cut down the wrong tree or hit underground utilities with a stump grinder.


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## treeman75 (Mar 11, 2014)

Ya, I have damaged some stuff over the past 20 years but nothing too bad and its almost always when taking short cuts. If crews are damaging stuff weekly its just a matter of time before someone gets hurt or killed. I too move everything I can from the work area. You can do the biggest tree around and do the best job getting it down but its the final clean up or the broken flower pot from great grandma that they look at.


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 12, 2014)

Zale said:


> I have never broken anything on a job. I have also never pinched a saw, gotten my throw bag stuck, clogged the chipper, dulled a chainsaw, gotten the truck stuck, broken a window, broken a piece of flag stone, dented aluminum siding, put bar oil in the gas tank, broken a fence, cut down the wrong tree or hit underground utilities with a stump grinder.


 Cut down the wrong tree, LOL. Gotta another quick story of one of our local superstars. I bid a job awhile back. They thought I was on crack with my price. The picked the cheapest. HO shows up at end of day and sees dude in another yard, cleaning up another removal. Figures he sold some work to the neighbor but notices his tree is still standing? Goes in house to change, gets a knock on the door right away and it is Bubba Hack. Bubba say he wants a check, HO is like "fur what?" Uh....."Your tree I took out".....with a duh. "Ya mean that tree that is still standing....." Other HO shows up and 1st HO hears him going phuckin nuts "W T F" comes charging over to Bubba, "who the hell told you to do that", on and on. 1ST HO, tells bubba he no longer needs anything, thanks anyways, shuts door. 2nd HO cooled off a bit, told Bubba that if he cuts all the wood into fire wood that he wont sue him or have him arrested. Dude was out there a long time cutting his ass off. 
LOL! Bad day for bubba. This is the second time this year this guy has done this. He needs to buy some tape or paint!


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 12, 2014)

I was in the ghetto of camden .... Sent there to take of a tree on a rental unit , worked for 3 or hours took care of it right and proper the rental owner showed up and said hey the tree is still there . I said no it's gone he said yea the tree 3 doors down from my unit is gone LOL he said well I gotta say nice job . I said and those bastards gave us water and thanked us an were really nice he said I would too if a crew would cut down a tree for 4 bottles of water !


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 12, 2014)

My bad for not walking my ass out to the front of building to check the address !


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## Zale (Mar 12, 2014)

Yeah, its not a good feeling when you realize you've taken the wrong tree down. It was my mistake, I didn't ask the salesman to paint it. Did I mention it was a 30 year old Jap. maple?


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## Raintree (Mar 12, 2014)

sgreanbeans said:


> I would blame the HO for that one. But I could imagine. My in laws used to be foster parents, they had a autistic boy who cooked his army men in the oven. Plastic dripped down to the bottom and smoked like crazy. The soot that came out put a fine film over everything in the house. That green company with the vans, savepro? They where there for 3 days with 5-6 people. Always wondered what that bill was, what was the one for the stumps?



10K plus, not sure on the final bill on that one, our Ins Co. took care of it. Guys doing dry stumps are sure to check for open windows theses days.



Zale said:


> Yeah, its not a good feeling when you realize you've taken the wrong tree down. It was my mistake, I didn't ask the salesman to paint it. Did I mention it was a 30 year old Jap. maple?



Of course the home owner thinks the tree is priceless. I write up quite a few tree value estimates for Ins companies. Most of them are vehicle impacts, some are wrong tree removed issues.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 12, 2014)

treeclimber101 said:


> I was in the ghetto of camden .... Sent there to take of a tree on a rental unit , worked for 3 or hours took care of it right and proper the rental owner showed up and said hey the tree is still there . I said no it's gone he said yea the tree 3 doors down from my unit is gone LOL he said well I gotta say nice job . I said and those bastards gave us water and thanked us an were really nice he said I would too if a crew would cut down a tree for 4 bottles of water !




What is a Camden?
Jeff


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 12, 2014)

sgreanbeans said:


> LOL! Bad day for bubba. This is the second time this year this guy has done this. He needs to buy some tape or paint!



We were removing some trees for the city along the side streets and the city was marking them with pink spray paint dots, well apparently some punky kids decided it would be funny to mark every tree on one street with pink dots so guess what....


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## PassionForTrees (Mar 13, 2014)

oh crap is all I can say, the work ethic today sucks and just finding someone who can show up is one thing with out having to pay someone $20. an hour for knowing nothing and cant drive cause of 8 dui's. uhgg. I guess that is why I dont manage a crew. I am the crew and then I get someone to help. I have had three guys work with me for over 2 years in field and now work for themselves... go figure. As for the accidents of course you will have them, but you shouldnt keep having them, you have different one's. And hopefully they are small like sprinkler heads, little crack from weight of the trucks, I use Alturnamats and they have helped ALOT! You have to have the right training continuing all the time it becomes a way of thinking and re checking and anticipating what can happen so make sure it doesnt. To teach that mentality to others seems to go in one ear and out the other. People ask me why I dont hire a crew and just manage them I would make Sooo much more money! Huhhh?? I guess I dont get it? giving someone my whole lives investment and say here ya go be safe and remember it's not mowing lawns we are talking about. Many experienced guys dont know how to properly put down the outriggers on the bucket truck and check for anyone under them while cutting, I would have a fatality in 1 day and a flipped over rig. It would be something EVERYDAY and I would then HATE my job. So I just keep doing it myself and keep searching for the right team player.


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 13, 2014)

Dang, you sound just like me!


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 13, 2014)

Raintree said:


> 10K plus, not sure on the final bill on that one, our Ins Co. took care of it. Guys doing dry stumps are sure to check for open windows theses days.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the home owner thinks the tree is priceless. I write up quite a few tree value estimates for Ins companies. Most of them are vehicle impacts, some are wrong tree removed issues.


Chingow (that's Spanish for holy chit)


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## climbhightree (Mar 13, 2014)

Here is the property damage that happen to me, and really ticked me off.

We were doing a 100' pine removal in a really tight area...front of the houses only separated by maybe 15'. No truck on crane access, not even close. Everything was being lowered and brought down safely...but there comes a point where you cant really lower a log anymore. I had about a 4' flower bed area that I could drop chunks into...and we saved other wood to make a wall to keep the pieces in. But one piece hit a root, and proceeded to take a bad bounce right over the wall. It hit the neighbors screened in porch, right on the support (across the path from where we were working).


















Though the wood did do some damage, I was relieved it wasn't worse. I figured a couple screws and glue, it would be as good as it was...and you wouldn't even be able to tell. This neighbor wasn't home, and I planned on contacting her and talking her about it. But the neighbor beside where we working came out, and started freaking out about it (I had even done work for the side neighbor). Before talking to me, she ended up calling the home owner and making it sound like the piece of wood went completely in her porch. To make matters worse, the homeowner's mother just recently died (and this was her house)...so she was a wreck. After thing were completely blown out of portion, I got to talk to her on the phone. I offered, and told her I easily could, to fix it myself...or she could get someone to fix it and Ill pay or it.

A little while later, I saw a contractor there "fixing it" and I about freaked out. Please note on above pictures that the screens are old, trim is old, and there isn't any holes in the screen. The guy was replacing all the screens on the WHOLE porch...and since they "couldn't get the trim off without breaking it" all new trim and fresh paint on the trim. Once he was done, I went back to get pictures again, and to look it over.















The bill was for $1600...and he didn't even fix what we broke (other than knocking it back in place) no screws or anything. I sent the bill to my insurance...with the before and after pictures and told them I would prefer if they fight it. But they chose to just pay the bill. GRR!


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## 68 Buick (Mar 13, 2014)

I've been doing trees since 1981 and have done very well so far, having very little damage ( knock on wood LOL ). Hit the corner of a house once many years ago, being in a hurry trying to make up for a very bad bid ( really p_ _ _ me off ). That was the only time hitting anything, I believe it was between $200. and $300. out of pocket. Can't say that I've been as fortunate with personal body damage. I do remember one time cleaning off a roof, from saw dust and debris and going through the roof. Good thing I was tied in and only went through to the knee. Ended up that the plywood was rotted and I was not responsible for any of the damage. If you count having bad days of landing logs poorly and damaging the ground, now I've had my share of those. Many times in doing yard repair at no cost but time.


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## gorman (Mar 16, 2014)

When u do a little bit of damage the homeowner will see it as an opportunity to make a little $$$ on some pos fence, bench, or trim. I busted a rotten section of $50 fence last year and the woman got some contracted sign off that it would cost $968 to replace one section. 

Insurance paid out without question and one year later it still is the way I left it.


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## Sunrise Guy (Mar 21, 2014)

I've dented my share of gutters, broken a few flower pots, cracked a flagstone, ripped a screen, broken a few fence slats, knocked a railing off its support, broke a slat on a patio chair, dented a metal roof on a storage shed, dinged the hood of a car, over twenty-seven years. All of the preceding I could blame on lazy crew members who weren't paying attention to what they were doing, but I was in charge so I take the blame. Each and every time, though, except for the $700 car hood repair, I went back and did the repairs, myself, so no insurance claims ever filed. Thing is, I got tired of crew members and their low-life attitudes, so I go solo on most gigs, these days. My "crew members" are now Paulie Port-a-wrap and Gary GRCS. Yeah, I have to climb down to lower bigger wood, and that gets old, after awhile, but I don't have to listen to guys tell me, "Man, I didn't know you were going to do that cut that would release the wood right then!" On smaller stuff, I carry a port-a-wrap aloft, to save a step, but I still have to go down and untie each piece, on the ground. Aloft, since nobody can let a piece run, I have to plan my cuts differently, but I'm used to it now. Basically, when I do a cut, the piece has to stay right where it was before separation. Then, I go down and lead it with a tag line to where I want it to land as I let out the winch and/or portie. Maybe all of this extra stuff is why my MD tells me I've got the physical stats of someone one-third my age. Some mornings, it sure as hell doesn't feel like it-----


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## Sunrise Guy (Mar 21, 2014)

gorman said:


> When u do a little bit of damage the homeowner will see it as an opportunity to make a little $$$ on some pos fence, bench, or trim. I busted a rotten section of $50 fence last year and the woman got some contracted sign off that it would cost $968 to replace one section.
> 
> Insurance paid out without question and one year later it still is the way I left it.



The thing to remember, in every case of property damage: The law gives you the absolute right to make what you damaged whole, again. That is, if you can do the repair, and show that your repair restored the piece back to its former shape, you are in the clear. If you busted out a rotten section of fence, your first move should have been to take detailed pics of the same. Then, you tell the HO, and let her know that you'll be back to repair it so it's back to the shape it was in before the damage. If you're in a bigger metro area, you can usually find salvage yards with old fencing that you can buy for a reasonable price, avoiding yuppie "aged fence slat" places that actually charge you more for old, garbage slats.


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## gorman (Mar 21, 2014)

Oh. We did that. No avail.


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## imagineero (Mar 21, 2014)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I go solo on most gigs, these days. My "crew members" are now Paulie Port-a-wrap and Gary GRCS. Yeah, I have to climb down to lower bigger wood, and that gets old, after awhile, but I don't have to listen to guys tell me, "Man, I didn't know you were going to do that cut that would release the wood right then!" On smaller stuff, I carry a port-a-wrap aloft, to save a step, but I still have to go down and untie each piece, on the ground. Aloft, since nobody can let a piece run, I have to plan my cuts differently, but I'm used to it now. Basically, when I do a cut, the piece has to stay right where it was before separation. Then, I go down and lead it with a tag line to where I want it to land as I let out the winch and/or portie.



That sounds dangerous as all hell. Might be time to go in for a mental health checkup also now that you've assigned human names to your lowering devices and consider them as groundies. Just sayin'


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## Sunrise Guy (Mar 21, 2014)

imagineero said:


> That sounds dangerous as all hell. Might be time to go in for a mental health checkup also now that you've assigned human names to your lowering devices and consider them as groundies. Just sayin'



LOL! I only go solo on mostly routine pruning jobs. As far as safety, I trust my rigging gear more than my former groundies, any day. On larger take-downs, I still have my reserve crew. No argument, here, that solo work has its dangers.


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## Sunrise Guy (Mar 21, 2014)

gorman said:


> Oh. We did that. No avail.


Damaging an HO's property should never be an opportunity for the HO to turn the screws to your insurance company. If you told the HO that you could repair the fence, then she needed to let you do so. I guess the laws differ from state to state. I've never had any trouble doing repair work to my HO's satisfaction.


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## stltreedr (Mar 21, 2014)

I've had my share of minor mishaps- the most expensive was a wrought Iron fence section that I crushed taking the very last limb out of a large oak removal. The limb was on the opposite side of the fence, as I had rigged out the other side of the tree. Tried to snap cut the last piece, it hit brush first and catapaulted back onto the fence.

The most frustrating was another oak removal, as I dropped the spar onto the ground the butt end severed an underground cable tv line that was less than an inch deep. Customer came out and asked what we did to his tv. Luckily the cable co didn't charge us to repair it. 

I think the biggest thing is, when something happens, no matter how minor, immediately notify and apologize to the homeowner. Let them know you will do whatever it takes to make it right again. 

Never, ever, ever, try to cover something up as if it didn't happen or you didn't do it.


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## Kmatrees (Mar 21, 2014)

One of my guys caught a chainlink fence with a rayco super jr. Pulled tbe wire downward and stalled the machine. I had a buddy of mine help fix that section and told the neighbor,who's fence it was that it was all fixed. She came out and started pointing out all kinds of areas where the fence was all messed up, but these areas were clearly bent upward from kids or dogs or whatever. The lady thought she was gonna get a whole new fence! Sorry lady! She was very rude and threatened legal action and all that hoopla. I told her my address and to have her imaginary lawyer contact me! That was years ago and haven't heard anything yet. As a matter of fact she called me for an estimate on some work! Needless to say I kept right on driving by. Thank God my guy wasn't running the 1102! I probably would have to replace the whole fence!

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## Toddppm (Mar 21, 2014)

Kmatrees said:


> One of my guys caught a chainlink fence with a rayco super jr. Pulled tbe wire downward and stalled the machine. I had a buddy of mine help fix that section and told the neighbor,who's fence it was that it was all fixed. She came out and started pointing out all kinds of areas where the fence was all messed up, but these areas were clearly bent upward from kids or dogs or whatever. The lady thought she was gonna get a whole new fence! Sorry lady! She was very rude and threatened legal action and all that hoopla. I told her my address and to have her imaginary lawyer contact me! That was years ago and haven't heard anything yet. As a matter of fact she called me for an estimate on some work! Needless to say I kept right on driving by. Thank God my guy wasn't running the 1102! I probably would have to replace the whole fence!
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2




Been there done that! Same machine! We were able to fix it too luckily, had to buy about a 20 ft. section though.


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## ozzy42 (Mar 21, 2014)

Toddppm said:


> Been there done that! Same machine! We were able to fix it too luckily, had to buy about a 20 ft. section though.


Yep,me too. That's when I learned you could splice chain link. Just unscrew the wire of the bad section and screw in a new length as needed.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 21, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> What is a Camden?
> Jeff


That's camden NJ one of the most ****ed up ghettos in this country ! And it's a war zone . I however do a lot of work there on rentals for slum lords ... Well some of them aren't complete JO's but most wait til the city is fining them before they call us .


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## Knobby57 (Mar 21, 2014)

I used to work with a friend that has his own co. In south pa. This guy is fussy and anal to say the least. Very OCD , best record keeper you ever met, he would take notes on everything and went through one of those high school notebooks a week. He would write down the number that called names and so forth along with the time and duration of the call . He has contracts that he writes everything down and he keeps a hard coppy ,customer gets a coppy,and also scans it to his laptop and added notes as needed to the folder . I don't think this guy sleeps . He bid a job and gave the HO a coppy along with his insurance info and his website so the customer could check up on him, they called him back and said they wanted the work done. He Scedualed the job and when he showed up the customer said they where going with another company. Miffed he went on with his day. A few weeks he gets a call from his insurance company about damage to a house roof. Turns out the HO had someone of Craig's list do the job and the tree set back onto the house. ( they tried to drop the tree between a garage another house)total fail. The guys trying to take down the tree had no insurance , they where doing if for free to get firewood . The shady HO called my buddies insurance and said that he did it and they had the contract . Mu buddy lost his mind.. He ran over to the HO s house and sure enough the tree was laying up against the HO house( this is probably a 750k house ) and to boot he said they where lucky or they would have crushed the garage or neighbors house. The homeowner told my buddy to get off his yard and said they would call the cops if he didn't leave . He went and talked to the neighbors and found out what happened and explained what was going on. The neighbors house that could have gotten hit said the HO was shifty and currently had several law suits against people including him , my buddies insurance was just going to pay the claim because it's cheaper . My buddy lost it, he said your telling me I have to pay my deductible for damage on a job I didn't even do. He spent days on the phone and had to get a lawyer . The day he was said to do this he did 2 other jobs over an hour away. He had receipts where and when he stopped for fuel and had his notes of where he was. He had to threaten to sue his insurance befor they looked into the clame . He won after spending money on a lawyer and blowing up phones for weeks . The real kicker is the HO called him back and said he wanted the tree removed at the first bid price . Some people are just scum


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## Valandscaper (Mar 21, 2014)

I just took 14 trees from a yard And the guy actually said "we'll does the price get cheaper if I don't care if you hit my flower beds?" (The guy had several all through the yard.) turned it into 12 throws or half throws and two rig trees. I did have one throw go funny on me and hit a pice of fence. That's the first real damage I've had, but we are also pretty new.


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## treebilly (Mar 22, 2014)

sorry for legal luck I deal with that stuffn all the time for my "boss" On my "million insured sidework" there is no question. All the risks are spelled out in writing when the estimate is given. bs with lawn damage and other stuff is discussed prior to work ever being done. never had a claim that a little topsoil couldn't fix


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## Sunrise Guy (Mar 23, 2014)

stltreedr said:


> I've had my share of minor mishaps- the most expensive was a wrought Iron fence section that I crushed taking the very last limb out of a large oak removal. The limb was on the opposite side of the fence, as I had rigged out the other side of the tree. Tried to snap cut the last piece, it hit brush first and catapaulted back onto the fence.
> 
> The most frustrating was another oak removal, as I dropped the spar onto the ground the butt end severed an underground cable tv line that was less than an inch deep. Customer came out and asked what we did to his tv. Luckily the cable co didn't charge us to repair it.
> 
> ...




Pertaining to underground cables, pipes and the like: In my proposal sheet, there's a line that states that we can't be held liable for damage to underground lines we are not made aware of. The client must have these lines marked by the proper companies if we are to avoid them. I've never had an issue with that stuff.


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## Sunrise Guy (Mar 23, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> I used to work with a friend that has his own co. In south pa. This guy is fussy and anal to say the least. Very OCD , best record keeper you ever met, he would take notes on everything and went through one of those high school notebooks a week. He would write down the number that called names and so forth along with the time and duration of the call . He has contracts that he writes everything down and he keeps a hard coppy ,customer gets a coppy,and also scans it to his laptop and added notes as needed to the folder . I don't think this guy sleeps . He bid a job and gave the HO a coppy along with his insurance info and his website so the customer could check up on him, they called him back and said they wanted the work done. He Scedualed the job and when he showed up the customer said they where going with another company. Miffed he went on with his day. A few weeks he gets a call from his insurance company about damage to a house roof. Turns out the HO had someone of Craig's list do the job and the tree set back onto the house. ( they tried to drop the tree between a garage another house)total fail. The guys trying to take down the tree had no insurance , they where doing if for free to get firewood . The shady HO called my buddies insurance and said that he did it and they had the contract . Mu buddy lost his mind.. He ran over to the HO s house and sure enough the tree was laying up against the HO house( this is probably a 750k house ) and to boot he said they where lucky or they would have crushed the garage or neighbors house. The homeowner told my buddy to get off his yard and said they would call the cops if he didn't leave . He went and talked to the neighbors and found out what happened and explained what was going on. The neighbors house that could have gotten hit said the HO was shifty and currently had several law suits against people including him , my buddies insurance was just going to pay the claim because it's cheaper . My buddy lost it, he said your telling me I have to pay my deductible for damage on a job I didn't even do. He spent days on the phone and had to get a lawyer . The day he was said to do this he did 2 other jobs over an hour away. He had receipts where and when he stopped for fuel and had his notes of where he was. He had to threaten to sue his insurance befor they looked into the clame . He won after spending money on a lawyer and blowing up phones for weeks . The real kicker is the HO called him back and said he wanted the tree removed at the first bid price . Some people are just scum



Total scum. I would have needed to be lashed to my trailer, by my crew, to keep from obliterating that lower-than-dirt HO.


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## The Real McCoy (Mar 24, 2014)

teamtree said:


> In the last year I became more of a manager than a foreman. For almost 14 years I took the crew to the job that I sold and led the team through the job. We had some mishaps and tore a gutter here, cracked some concrete there, rutted the yard over there. It was something that was more rare than common.
> 
> Anyway, it seems we are running at 50% lately as far as whether we are damaging something or not. Not sure if I should send the crew out anymore becuase it just creates more work for me. I have to replace a basketball goal, replace some limestone caps on a wall, fix two lights, and level and reseed 3 yards.
> 
> ...



I own my a tree company part time and work full time for my families business. www.trmmaryland.com in my website. Now lets talk business. It helps to notify the homeowner that anything under or near the tree could be damaged while the tree is being worked on so everything that can be moved they need to move it before or you need to make sure the ground crew does. While doing so, it helps to make a mental inventory of the things you moved just incase something breaks and no one says they did it so you know what the deal is. Sometimes homeowners don't notice something is messed up until after you do the work! and that is no good especially if you didnt make a note of it prior. Another thing is make sure you have insurance because a little screw up here and there could be fixed...but if the homeowner is still pissed off by how long it took to fix or whatever they can sue you...and this is pricey. Also its important to recognize your climbers strenghths and ground crew. If a guy normally drags a ton of brush keep him away if there is fragile stuff or MAKE SURE he understands the **** aint happening. Also alot of mishaps come from laziness... if it happens once you should've learned... if the guys keep messing up and doesn't improve you may want to find the cause as to why they don't care and fix it. That might include telling them to find a new job. My part time business is only one guy...me. So you can do it with one guy but sometimes its so draining.


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## Valandscaper (Mar 24, 2014)

Do you do removals alone?


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## The Real McCoy (Mar 24, 2014)

Yes i have. I just bring a few ropes up with me incase i do need to rope something down because once you lower that line you can't use it again. I've never done a extremely large tree alone. But yep i have done removals alone.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 24, 2014)

The Real McCoy said:


> I own my a tree company part time and work full time for my families business. www.trmmaryland.com in my website. Now lets talk business. It helps to notify the homeowner that anything under or near the tree could be damaged while the tree is being worked on so everything that can be moved they need to move it before or you need to make sure the ground crew does. While doing so, it helps to make a mental inventory of the things you moved just incase something breaks and no one says they did it so you know what the deal is. Sometimes homeowners don't notice something is messed up until after you do the work! and that is no good especially if you didnt make a note of it prior. Another thing is make sure you have insurance because a little screw up here and there could be fixed...but if the homeowner is still pissed off by how long it took to fix or whatever they can sue you...and this is pricey. Also its important to recognize your climbers strenghths and ground crew. If a guy normally drags a ton of brush keep him away if there is fragile stuff or MAKE SURE he understands the **** aint happening. Also alot of mishaps come from laziness... if it happens once you should've learned... if the guys keep messing up and doesn't improve you may want to find the cause as to why they don't care and fix it. That might include telling them to find a new job. My part time business is only one guy...me. So you can do it with one guy but sometimes its so draining.



You sound like the real mcCoy,,aggressive and promoting a web site and acting like a boss,,,
Wow, don't get me wrong, I am a nice guy.
Jeff


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## newsawtooth (Mar 25, 2014)

The Real McCoy said:


> I just bring a few ropes up with me incase i do need to rope something down because once you lower that line you can't use it again.



Amateur.


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## The Real McCoy (Mar 25, 2014)

Glad someone thinks so


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