# has anyone ever heard........



## jonsered (Aug 25, 2006)

has anyone ever heard of a case of when someone got struck in the face/head/forehead by a chainsaw kickback and having severe possibly fatal injuries from it?


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## l2edneck (Aug 26, 2006)

:taped: We try not to speak of it.Is not something we want to visualize or imagine.But yes im sure it has happened.Ive heard some stories but never 
personally met any one thats has happen to.


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## Stumper (Aug 26, 2006)

Yes.
Severe not fatal.


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## beowulf343 (Aug 26, 2006)

Yes, worked with a guy who had this happen to him in 79. He's had over a dozen surgeries but it is still messed up. Definitely makes you more careful seeing what can happen if you're not.


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## Bermie (Aug 26, 2006)

Seen pictures of just that in a St. John's Ambulance manual during a first aid course, absolutely horrible.


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## Manco (Aug 26, 2006)

I know a guy who got cut like that. He has a nasty looking scar that goes from his eyebrow, across his nose, and down to the corner of his mouth.

I had a saw kickback and nick the brim of the hard hat I was wearing. That was too close for comfort.


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## coydog (Aug 26, 2006)

I've had my 020 kickback into the front of my hard hat, made a diagonal cut all the way through the plastic, but didn't get me, the force of the blow gave me a touch of wiplash, felt like somebody took a ball bat to my hard hat.


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## jonsered (Aug 26, 2006)

that definately would not be a pleasant experience, never had it happened and will try not to ever have that happen


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## clearance (Aug 26, 2006)

Do you now understand why you have to stand to one side always, even if it means using the saw lefthanded? I had a 038 Mag. flip out of my hands and over my shoulder once when I was bucking, the bar nose touched a log behind the one I was bucking at w.o.t.. Scary stuff, I was pretty rattled, been cut with a saw before, it ain't pretty.


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## stihlatit (Aug 26, 2006)

One time with my 038 Super the tip caught a chain link fence and the saw shot over my shoulder and there was the homeowner right behind me unbeknowing to me. He turned white as the saw stopped inches from his face. I turned the saw off and ripped him a new azzwhole for scaring the chit out of both of us and not heeding my earlier comment to him that if he insisted on moving brush, I would invite him into the work zone at a safe time. He did stay out after that though.


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## woodchux (Aug 26, 2006)

I heard a story about a homeowner who was found dead under a tree with his throat cut open.


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## inztrees (Aug 28, 2006)

*cuts*

there was a guy in Moltonboro NH I think that was one handing a 335 and it kicked and got him I'm the neck bleed out on the ground man there was a crane up the road that got him down thin was back 5 or 6 years


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## OTG BOSTON (Aug 29, 2006)

inztrees said:


> there was a guy in Moltonboro NH I think that was one handing a 335 and it kicked and got him I'm the neck bleed out on the ground man there was a crane up the road that got him down thin was back 5 or 6 years



I remember when that happened, I was actually in N.H. for my EHAP training the day after.


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## techdave (Aug 31, 2006)

*killed by saw blow to head, yes...sadly*

Hi you all, when i first took the state park chainsaw training after class we were talking about the rules. One of them is no cutting above shoulder height. I had about 15 years in the industry so I knew why.

One smart ass trainee was a good worker as far as effort but would NOT take instruction in anything be it dragging brush or saw ops. He challenged the instructor on the need for this rule. The instructor said when the instructor worked in NoCal there was gung ho employee who just wanted to finish trimming some low branches to spruce up a picnic area for its annual opening.

He (ideal employee) ws found bled out froma head wound from kickback. When the instructor told us the story (in some detail)I thought mr wont listen was gonna puke! Never did see him listen but never saw himuse a saw again either!

Not saying I never cut high or wont do it again, but it is done seldom, from the side, and with extreeeeem caution!


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## matty f (Sep 1, 2006)

When i first started ,one of the climbers i was grounding for had an old syle 020 kick back in his his face and lips,on his final cut taking out his anchore point,pretty messy,poor fella was having difficulty trying to breath through his nose ,as there was to much blood pumping out.
He has a pretty nasty scar now,spose he was lucky his saw was not three inches lower.
Always makes me put my visor down thinking about that.


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## Dixie1 (Sep 1, 2006)

*okay, I shouldn't have read this*

I'm new to this forum. I truly admire all of you for your skills you perform under such dangerous circumstances. I just recently received my ISA arborist certification and am our city's urban forester and arboretum coordinator for our university. I know this sounds crazy since I am in the tree business, but I am absolutely terrified of a chainsaw. I avoid them when possible.Yes, I am a female and I know there are lots of women who are perfectly capable and do an awesome job, but for some reason, probably stories like were told in the above posts, I avoid using the chainsaw. Since I work with all men, they usually jump at the chance to fire up the saw, so I let them. I don't mind a bit using the gas powered pole saw, but the regular ones I am scared that it will kick back or I'm not strong enough to do it right. I have read and heard stories of how they kick back, but from your experiences how do you avoid it kicking back?


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## jonsered (Sep 2, 2006)

it is sort of hard to explain, but i guess i could try to explain it,





just try to avoid using this part of the bar. If this part of the bar comes in contact with anything there is a good chance that it will not cut instead the revolving chain will try to push the saw up, and it will happen very fast


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## jonsered (Sep 2, 2006)

but make sure that when you use a saw it is not to big and heavy for you to use, especially if you have to use it for a long period of time, because when you get tired and fatigued that is when accidents do happen


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## Manco (Sep 2, 2006)

As long as you're talking kickback, head ,face and neck aren't all of your worries ! I saw a guy on a pine, blocking down 6 foot sections. He bogged the motor and the chain stopped. Then he wiggled the saw with fingers still on the trigger( you know we've all done that) and when the chain started back it kicked out of the cut and the saw cut his left arm and over half-way across his chest.
Saw another guy have a saw kick back out of a stump while flushing it off at the ground. Had his right leg too far forward and got a nasty cut.
I imagine knees get the most amount of stitches in the world of our dangerous toys.
People getting too close to you while you're sawing are in real danger too. If you turn with the saw, and chain is still spinning just a LITTLE, could make for a trip to the hospital. I found a way to keep new workers, groundmen, or seasoned vets out of the area I'm sawing in. If after repeated verbal commands don't work, I get in position behind the trespasser,put the saw all the way to my left, rev the engine and simultaneously tap the back of their leg with the toe of my right boot. I guarantee you that person never gets back within twenty feet of me while I'm running the saw ! It's bad when you cut yourself but even worse if you hurt someone around you.


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## jonsered (Sep 3, 2006)

i dont think it is a good idea to tell people all of the bad things that can happen to them if they use a chainsaw, it doesnt help their confidence at all, its best just to tell them how to be safer and how to avoid accidents


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## jonsered (Sep 3, 2006)

i know you mean well though, and this topic is about kickback and injuries that people had


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## Gologit (Sep 3, 2006)

jonsered said:


> i dont think it is a good idea to tell people all of the bad things that can happen to them if they use a chainsaw, it doesnt help their confidence at all, its best just to tell them how to be safer and how to avoid accidents



You are so very wrong. Without knowing the bad things that can happen to you you shouldn't even go near a chainsaw. Over the years I've seen way more injuries than I"ve wanted to and a lot of them came from ignorance and carelessness. Confidence won't be lost at all if they're aware of the risks involved. If they're the type of person whose confidence is that easily shaken they might be better off having someone else do their cutting. And to answer your original question...I've seen two fatals from head and upper torso saw injuries. Neither was instantly fatal but both were single-jacking and bled out before anyone even found them. I've heard of others but can't confirm them.


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## jonsered (Sep 3, 2006)

then the people who were ignorent and careless had it coming to them, it means they were not being smart of thinking safely, i have never, ever had any injuries due to operating a chainsaw, i am not a careless person


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## Gologit (Sep 3, 2006)

jonsered said:


> then the people who were ignorent and careless had it coming to them, it means they were not being smart of thinking safely, i have never, ever had any injuries due to operating a chainsaw, i am not a careless person



Maybe you're not a careless person...I can't really say. You do come across as being an insensitive cretin however. To infer that the the men I knew who were killed "had it coming to them" is the thought and deed of a morally bankrupt person. Would you care to explain your attitude to their families? Maybe they did screw up...I don't know...and you sure as hell don't know either.
Enlighten us. How long have you been on the saw? Are you a faller or a logger of any kind? A week-end warrior with delusions of professionalism? Don't judge your betters...learn from them. Even their mistakes.


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## jonsered (Sep 4, 2006)

i'm sorry for blabbing like that, i was not thinking, i am very sorry, and i do log and fall trees, i have been doing it for around 3 years, but i know i do not have "that" much experience but i do have alot even though i have not done it for a very long time


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## Gologit (Sep 4, 2006)

jonsered said:


> i'm sorry for blabbing like that, i was not thinking, i am very sorry, and i do log and fall trees, i have been doing it for around 3 years, but i know i do not have "that" much experience but i do have alot even though i have not done it for a very long time



Okay...apology accepted. I looked up your profile. You're the same age as my boy and sometimes his mouth gets away from him too. Thanks for being a big enough guy to say you're sorry. I've been a logger almost all my life and I guess I'm just tired of packing guys out of the woods and then calling their families to explain what happened.
You keep on being careful and I wish you all the best. Bob


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## Manco (Sep 4, 2006)

jonsered said:


> i dont think it is a good idea to tell people all of the bad things that can happen to them if they use a chainsaw, it doesnt help their confidence at all, its best just to tell them how to be safer and how to avoid accidents


 
You HAVE to know all the bad things that can happen while using a chainsaw. Also, I consider myself very safety-conscious and I've been bit by the husky dog too. I don't know anyone thats used a chainsaw extensively that hasn't been bit. Come to think of it, there was a guy who lost his footing and fell on a saw that was not running, and received 21 stitches to the hand that was supposed to stop the fall but landed on the bar and chain.


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## jonsered (Sep 4, 2006)

ouch


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## BlueRidgeMark (Sep 4, 2006)

jonsered said:


> i'm sorry for blabbing like that, i was not thinking, i am very sorry,




That what a _real_ man does. Admit when he's wrong. Good on ya.


jonsered, I see by your profile that you're pretty young. Well, that's a crime that we've all committed, so no problem. But, one thing that's hard to teach the young - even the most intelligent - is just how much there is that you don't know - and don't even KNOW you don't know, that is only learned by experience. Thw world is far more complex than you realize, and there are many more things that can go wrong than you are now aware of. So go slow, my friend, with judgements like that. Keep your eyes open, and keep learning. Sometimes these old fools really do know what we're talking about.

Believe it or not, you can learn valuable lessons from someone who has far less intelligence than you. Experience counts.


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## squisher (Sep 4, 2006)

Just in case anyone thinks it can't happen to them. 
My whole family has worked the bush for three generations. My uncle had been 25 years in the bush done it all falling, bucking, skidding, running whole shows. To make a long story short he was walking machines to a new block one day and had two trees in the way so he jumped out starting falling the first tree and the dreaded kickback zone touched on the second tree. He was cutting high, it was a ackward position. Before you judge can anyone here who actually runs a saw say honestly that you never cut out of position or high. The resulting kickback came right across my uncles face. Obliterated his nose I mean gone cut right into his cheeckbone. I saw him through a little window in the door of the completely sealed room that he had to stay in for over a week as they operated and tried to reconstruct his face not pretty. The cuts were so bad that they couldn't be dressed and the sealed room was to prevent infection. When the cut occurred my uncle was by himself on that block his swamper was waiting for him to arrive with the machine on the new block. It was over an hour until they met on the bush road with the paramedics. It was one of the paramedics first real call and when they peeled my uncles shirt off his face that guy hurled. My uncle the tough SOB that he is stayed concious during the whole thing and still works in the bush. Several reconstructive surgeries later he doesn't look that bad but his sniffer will never work again.

Lesson to be learned here. It can happen to anyone at anytime so never let your guard down not for a second.


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## jonsered (Sep 4, 2006)

i know what you mean, i always try to be as aware as i can when operating a chainsaw, but one time or another people do get distracted or get over confident, i have done that many times


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## rahtreelimbs (Sep 4, 2006)

Treco posted this pic on another thread....tells alot!!!


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## Dixie1 (Sep 5, 2006)

*thanks*

thank you all for your replies and stories. i think hearing of the horrible accidents does make me more scarred, but it will make me way more cautious. that drawing of the "kick back zone" was helpful. I think I still like the pole saw the best! I'm sure with more experience I will get more comfortable.


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## geofore (Sep 5, 2006)

*kickback*



jonsered said:


> has anyone ever heard of a case of when someone got struck in the face/head/forehead by a chainsaw kickback and having severe possibly fatal injuries from it?



Andy, a buddy of mine, was cutting firewood with his new saw, 14" bar, just working the little stuff, the saw kicked back and hit him right under the jaw. Took out six teeth on the way up through his lower jaw, so fast if you'd have blinked you'd have missed it. That was 30+ years ago, before the inertia chain brakes.


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## jonsered (Sep 6, 2006)

its a good thing chainbrakes were invented, or else a heck of alot more people would have died from chainsaw related incidents


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## jonsered (Sep 6, 2006)

extremely important safety feature


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## musch (Sep 6, 2006)

*Props to pros*

I just want to say that this thread, and others like it have REALLY helped me out. Chainsaws are cool, and they can be fun, and for a weekend warrior like myself, deadly.
When I look at the people I know in the business, my grandfather was raised on a logging camp in upstate NY. He was born in 1909 and spent most of his life with only 8 fingers.
2 friends in the business have destroyed a leg and a shoulder respectively.
One was a climber, the other a feller. Both had parts of a tree fall on them.
And a good friends father (a weekend warrior) with TONS of experience slipped, and cut the inside of his thigh, almost bleeding to death..
But for some reason, *this* forum has been a constant reminder of safety, and I have learned a lot.
I have also invested in chaps, a helmet, gloves, etc.
I will admit I used to go out and cut firewood with gloves and sunglasses.
Stupid. And I am lucky. 
*Respect the saw*, and thanks for all the great advice to all you pros here.


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## RolloriClimber (Sep 9, 2006)

I got kick back twice both times trimming a queen palm.

1st time out on clearwater beach only been climbing maybe a year then a little to windy that day and was doing off a ladder, I had finished all the trees and the foreman said and pointed out I forgot a dead boot on the last one . So in a hurry be rushed as always, I ran up the ladder went to cut the boot off with my 020 with one hand, the saw bounced and then kicked back out of natural recation I threw my left hand up to block . then I reached up and cut the boot off but with a under cut shut the saw off and thought that was close dare I look at my left hand ? I lift my hand up to see if I hit it and on the outside of my thumb was a very deep cut going in toward my hand.
It looked like the quarter thigh of chicken when you are cutting the leg off.

I stepped down the ladder and wrapped my hand in my shirt , the rest of the crew was cleaning up and loading the fraws in the grapple,they saw my hand wrapped and asked what was up?I said some one needs to take me to the hospital now . At the hospital the doc went to look at the x-ray and saw a perfect cut half way through my thumb bone and had to show about everyone in the hospital.

Second time was trimming all the palm trees in a trailer park maybe a year and half later , from the first inccedent. Boss told me it was a 2-day job , or his old climber it took him 2 days .

I whipped through the trailer park trimming them and I looked at the time it was almost lunch time so I drove around the park to see what I had left to trim. I had 3 palms left to trim of the whole job on the first day. So trying to impress I tried to finish before lunch last palm dead boot hanging out can't remeber if I was using my 020 or that echo climbing saw, but this time had both hands on the saw , hit the boot the saw kicked back my handon the top of the saw when it kicked back nocked my hard hat off , and the saw hit my forehead. It just broke the skin, the hospital couldn't stitch it though since saws don't make clean cuts in flesh like they do through wood and bone.So they pulled the skin together and put this special tape on it they use on burn victoms.
Needless to say I do not rush through jobs any more I found you may get done 1/2 hour later, but at least you are in one piece, and I moved to Georgia and don't do palms trees any more.


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