# Basic Porting and Polishing Techniques



## Gypo Logger (Jan 20, 2006)

Now that I have ported a few saws, namely 020 (2), 044 (1), 026 (3), 372 (2), 262 (1), 980 (1) and a 385 which I finished today, I wanted to share with you some of the basic tricks of the trade that will help you with the gains you have all been looking for.
Firstly, lets talk about the cutting of the port. Clean the cylinder as best you can with lacquer thinner and then hot soapy water and rinse and dry.
Then spray the inside of the cylinder walls with machinist Dikam, which is basicly a blue ink. Then mark the cyl. to the specs you want.

Carbide cutters are the best for rough cutting. Using the shortest shank cutter possible for the job will ensure more control. Port flow is just as important as the amount of material you move, so try to make steady and precise cuts as possible.
It's best to leave about .5 mm for clean up, leveling and polish work. You can always remove metal, but you can't put it back on.
Using slower cutting speeds is best so that the aluminum doesn't heat up and develope hard spots that will be hard to even out later.
In our next discussion of porting we will detail how best to accomplish basic leveling of the rough cutting.
Yours to Happy Porting!
John


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## 04ultra (Jan 20, 2006)

Teacher can we see some pictures and movies..






Please no singing in the movies


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## jokers (Jan 20, 2006)

Gypo Logger said:


> Clean the cylinder as best you can with lacquer thinner and then hot soapy water and rinse and dry.
> Then spray the inside of the cylinder walls with machinist Dikam, which is basicly a blue ink. Then mark the cyl. to the specs you want.
> 
> Carbide cutters are the best for rough cutting. Using the shortest shank cutter possible for the job will ensure more control. Port flow is just as important as the amount of material you move, so try to make steady and precise cuts as possible.
> ...


Nice work John! Now you`re plagiarizing the inside back cover of the C&C Specialties catalog.  I guess that no low is too low when you start at the bottom and then attempt dive deeper.

Russ


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## Kenskip1 (Jan 20, 2006)

*Porting Gypo*

Gypo,Your technique is very harsh with little specifics. I am porting a 55 with a 12 volt drill and some emery paper. Have you ever thought about working for NASCAR? Jack Roush is looking for a few good men! Ken


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 20, 2006)

Russ, is right, alot of the jargon come from a great bunch of people in Lawrenceburg Tennessee . Particularly Debra Hagen who works there who completed my order. The place has all these porting tools you'll need and you can contact Debra at:
www.ccspecialtytool.com
KD hotsaw sent me the original catalogue.
Anyway, if you want to talk hotsaws call Ken at 530 589 2744.
John


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 20, 2006)

So anyway, here's a vid of the 385 straight out of the box, expect I used a 9 pin sprocket as that is what I used on the moddified version.
Here it is cutting a 16" block of Red Maple with an 18" bar. The cut looks like about 5 secs.
John


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 20, 2006)

Here's the modified version of the above saw. He seems to be about twice as fast after my work, however the saw is still tight and will loosen up after a few gallons of fuel have been run thru it.
I can't stress enough how important the polishing procedure is to the air flow and therefore the resultant power of the finished motor.
We will be dealing later with polishing after we discuss basic leveling of the ports.
John


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## Andy1234 (Jan 20, 2006)

A good start.
When I used to port aluminum heads and manifolds, I used a makita straight electrical die grinder with high speed steel bits. 
The steel bits were cheaper and worked almost as fast as the carbide bits.
There are many different cutter profiles to choose from. By a few different ones and experiment on a junk part first. 
Use a coarse tooth for the roughing, and a medium tooth for the finish, followed by a 200 grit silicon carbide sanding roll to give a smooth finish.
Also, when using the cutters, smear some liquid dish soap on the port, it acts as a lubricant and helps prevent the cutter from clogging. 
FWIW.
Andy1234


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 20, 2006)

Hi Andy, thanks for your most informative post. I'll try your dishsoap idea.
Thanks
John


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## Marky Mark (Jan 20, 2006)

Gypo Logger keep up the good work it's the only way you'll learn. I guess if you don't try what did you learn. I learned if you want to make money as a trapper you better start with a little. But life over Snuffies Bar and Grill ain't always easy. I was skinning a skunk in my one room that acts as my make believe house and you guessed it I hit the scent gland. So now I am looking for a new plave to live at. I never knew I had to wait for internet at the library. Be back on line once the line goes away.
Regards,
Pal


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## Chainsaw Master (Jan 20, 2006)

Gyppo you say " Then spray the inside of the cylinder walls with machinist Dikam, which is basicly a blue ink. Then mark the cyl. to the specs you want." 
How did you figure out where to put the marks, that you cut the ports too? What are the rules for figuring out the specs?


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## whatsnext (Jan 20, 2006)

Gypo, Is this done before or after you cut the intake side of the piston skirt?
John..

/or was it the exhaust side?


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## timberwolf (Jan 20, 2006)

So John, Transfer ports. Do you polish them up or not. Some things I have read say no just knock off any casting bumps and some how the texture adds to the surface area, wetted surface and evaporation of any persipitated fuel..., Other info points to making nice smooth surfaces to minimize the thickness of the layer of lower velosity air near the walls of the port.

What ya think???


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## bwalker (Jan 20, 2006)

Gas flow through a pipe is greatest at the center. The gas next to the pipe walls tumbles and is lower in velocity than that in the center. 
With that said the surface finish of a port isnt going to do much for you. Some guys polish the exhaust port to lesson carbon buildup, some dont. I have even seen some guys polish the transfers and intake to a mirror finish.
I once asked noted motor cycle tuner if it was worth it to polish ports and he said no. I also have not had polished ports on any of the cylinders I have had done.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 20, 2006)

Ben, your avatar is very distracting.















He must work out.


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## jokers (Jan 20, 2006)

John,

I`m proud of you to be actually using real tools for a change! Keep it up!


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 20, 2006)

Chainsaw Master, as an alternative to the ink and scribe method, you can also invert a ringless piston into the barrel and take measurements that way.
With an old piston you can cut the skirt after measuring and use it as a template to arrive at the actual height of the port.
As far as the specs it is not an exact science however, experiment with small amounts like .5mm- 1.5 mm. You want to raise the exhaust and transfers while lowering the intake. With some saws I simply lower the intake 1mm and raise the exhaust .5 mm, while not touching the transfers.
It's a fun learning thing and you won't screw up your saw if you don't go overboard. I'm not sure what you mean Whatsnext.
Brian, I have started polishing the ports as opposed to leaving them unfinished because like you I heard there are two schools of thought, but the finished product looks much better when polished, plus Tommy Fales told me to polish.
Ben, that's a good point about the carbon.
Russ, I still use my trusty fingernail file on occasion 
John


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## Marky Mark (Jan 20, 2006)

John that's a nice cut off head. When did you start cutting off heads for your saws??


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## bwalker (Jan 20, 2006)

> John that's a nice cut off head. When did you start cutting off heads for your saws??


 Marky, Your looking at the bottom of the cylinder in that pic.


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## Simonizer (Jan 20, 2006)

Gypo Logger said:


> Hi Andy, thanks for your most informative post. I'll try your dishsoap idea.
> Thanks
> John


Use a front-exhausting CP mini-die-grinder. Put about 3 cc's of ATF in the inlet for each port you cut, it will lube the carbide burr as you work. Here is another tip for you junior; cut the head off a 1/4" X 2" capscrew. Slice it down the center 1". You can now tear a 3" long piece of emery cloth roll and install it in the slot twisting it clockwise to give you a very nice polishing tool. I use 240 grit. The nice thing about this set-up is as follows: it is aggressive at first allowing you to profile and perfect your surface, as it plugs up with aluminum, (and ATF), it effectively becomes 400 grit, 600 grit and almost crokus cloth at the end. Your finish will be mirror-like. Cheers.


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 20, 2006)

Simonizer said:


> Use a front-exhausting CP mini-die-grinder. Put about 3 cc's of ATF in the inlet for each port you cut, it will lube the carbide burr as you work. Here is another tip for you junior; cut the head off a 1/4" X 2" capscrew. Slice it down the center 1". You can now tear a 3" long piece of emery cloth roll and install it in the slot twisting it clockwise to give you a very nice polishing tool. I use 240 grit. The nice thing about this set-up is as follows: it is aggressive at first allowing you to profile and perfect your surface, as it plugs up with aluminum, (and ATF), it effectively becomes 400 grit, 600 grip and almost crokus cloth at the end. Your finish will be mirror-like. Cheers.


 Thanks for the tip Simon. I have one of those, it's called a slotted mandrel and works great. I also bought some sanding roles as well.
Did you see my 385 video above? How would it compare to yours? Red Maple is about the same hardness as Alder.
John


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## Simonizer (Jan 21, 2006)

Gypo Logger said:


> Thanks for the tip Simon. I have one of those, it's called a slotted mandrel and works great. I also bought some sanding roles as well.
> Did you see my 385 video above? How would it compare to yours? Red Maple is about the same hardness as Alder.
> John


I cannot say how they would compare without putting them side-by-side. I know I an getting ~7.7 HP right now with the 385. I have built and sold 108 385's as of today. I test run my saws with a 32" bar in a 4 foot diameter hemlock log. I want to give you another tip. If you are extremely careful you can chamfer your ports with a 1/2" diameter spherical carbide burr. Keep the RPM very low and be extremely gentle. With practice it will look like the work was performed by a CAD machine. Chamfer width should be 0.040" on a 60 degree angle.


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## Mr. (Jan 21, 2006)

Simonizer said:


> crokus cloth



The first one here to now what it is

Fred


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## Mr. (Jan 21, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Marky, Your looking at the bottom of the cylinder in that pic.



Marky was correct.

Fred


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## bwalker (Jan 21, 2006)

> Marky was correct.


On second look you right. I didnt see the transfer off to the left and thought it had the same style jug as a 044 or a 395.


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## timberwolf (Jan 21, 2006)

Simons numbers?????

385 is claimed to be 6.3 hp stock, so 7.7 is about a 20% gain. Opening up the muffler and a little exhaust work should give that kind of gain alone.


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## skwerl (Jan 21, 2006)

I suspect Simon's work is very similar to Walkerized saws. Just a muffler mod and a light cleanup of the ports, nothing more.


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## timberwolf (Jan 21, 2006)

That and may be a bit of hokuspokus window dressing, lots of little things can be done insided the saw that dont add up to much of anything but giggle time with a dremil.

Easy to get caught up id doing such things, I know! It's fine if your tinkering on your own saw, but just driving the price up and production volume down if your selling your work.


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 21, 2006)

Although blown up at least 2X, here's the spiral mandrels that can be used while porting and the spiral rolls that come in 5 different grits from 50 to 320.
Shank dia. is 1/4" and 1/8". The ones pictured are 1/8". All available at CC Specialties. 1- 800 - 762 -5165.
John


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## Simonizer (Jan 21, 2006)

skwerl said:


> I suspect Simon's work is very similar to Walkerized saws. Just a muffler mod and a light cleanup of the ports, nothing more.


Not even close.


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## woodsjunkie (Jan 21, 2006)

Gypo Logger said:


> So anyway, here's a vid of the 385 straight out of the box, expect I used a 9 pin sprocket as that is what I used on the moddified version.
> Here it is cutting a 16" block of Red Maple with an 18" bar. The cut looks like about 5 secs.
> John



Hey gypo you sawed of runt kudos to ya.
Saw looks good I bet it will run with'in a few thousands of a ported 088?
__________________


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 21, 2006)

That's what I was thinking too Eric! 
The modd worked out good. I copied a KD 385 barrel I had. Although my work is no where as good as Kens, the only thing I couldn't reasonably replicate was the upper transfers so I simply beveled them on an upward angle.
Regardless, It's some of my better work.
John


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## 04ultra (Jan 21, 2006)

Gypo more pictures please..


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## whatsnext (Jan 21, 2006)

Gypo Logger said:


> It's a fun learning thing and you won't screw up your saw if you don't go overboard. I'm not sure what you mean Whatsnext.




John, Well, a couple of weeks ago in this thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=27921, you were explaining how to improve the performance of our saws via piston skirt work but now you're suggesting port work. I'd like the best performing saw possible so I'm just asking you where we should start.
Thanks, John..


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 21, 2006)

It depends on the saw and the figures you are working with. Obviously taking it off the piston skirt of the intake side is much easier than lowering the intake port.
Also if the intake port looks restricted and not symetrical then by all means work the port over. 
John


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## SWE#Kipp (Jan 21, 2006)

*keep up the good work*

thanks for a very interesting and informative thread !! just love to read about this stuff 

/The little swede


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## 046 (Jan 22, 2006)

Simonizer said:


> Use a front-exhausting CP mini-die-grinder. Put about 3 cc's of ATF in the inlet for each port you cut, it will lube the carbide burr as you work. Here is another tip for you junior; cut the head off a 1/4" X 2" capscrew. Slice it down the center 1". You can now tear a 3" long piece of emery cloth roll and install it in the slot twisting it clockwise to give you a very nice polishing tool. I use 240 grit. The nice thing about this set-up is as follows: it is aggressive at first allowing you to profile and perfect your surface, as it plugs up with aluminum, (and ATF), it effectively becomes 400 grit, 600 grit and almost crokus cloth at the end. Your finish will be mirror-like. Cheers.


Simon sure seems to know the little details....

here's my porting setup with assortment of carbide bits, forward exhaust die-grinder and rear exhaust snap-on die-grinder

prefer grinding off all the ruff casting marks, then polish smooth.


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## jokers (Jan 22, 2006)

John,

Where did you get this picture? Is this some of your work?

Russ


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## johnb (Jan 22, 2006)

*Porting*

Thanks Gypo for all the info keep it coming! I'm starting my third 066 project saw and was looking for someone who would open up! HA Ha about the porting process. I recently ported and polished a 2.3 ford 4-stroker head and intake manifold for a friends pulling garden tractor, what an improvement in Horse power! You can also get a good porting kit from Eastwood company at www.eastwood.com. I was always a little un easy about modifying 2 cycle ports. I feel better now! thanks The Hoosier!


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## 046 (Jan 22, 2006)

yup, good thread!

most of my porting has been done on british sports cars. mostly cleaning up intake ports, intake manifolds, matching up ports etc. 

have not done much two stroke work, except to clean up exhaust ports and match to muffler. so this information is really helpful.


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 22, 2006)

046 said:


> Simon sure seems to know the little details....
> 
> here's my porting setup with assortment of carbide bits, forward exhaust die-grinder and rear exhaust snap-on die-grinder
> 
> prefer grinding off all the ruff casting marks, then polish smooth.



Great picture of the die grinders 046. Glad you have had experience with the car motors, it will be invaluable I am sure in your endeavours with 2 cycle. Although they may be easier to work on due to the size of the cylinders, I bet a mistake is much more costly.
John


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 22, 2006)

johnb said:


> Thanks Gypo for all the info keep it coming! I'm starting my third 066 project saw and was looking for someone who would open up! HA Ha about the porting process. I recently ported and polished a 2.3 ford 4-stroker head and intake manifold for a friends pulling garden tractor, what an improvement in Horse power! You can also get a good porting kit from Eastwood company at www.eastwood.com. I was always a little un easy about modifying 2 cycle ports. I feel better now! thanks The Hoosier!


 Hi John, thanks for the link to the Eastwood Co.
I'm really liking this porting of these 2 cycle motors. It seems that with patience and the right tools that porting is much easier than learning to file a chain. All we need are the basic and conservative figures and a few good people behind us to help with prior experience.
Your 2.3 Ford project sounds very interesting. Here's a stock 272 barrel I will be porting next. Note how rough the casting and the edges are.
John


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## trimmmed (Jan 22, 2006)

Marky Mark said:


> John that's a nice cut off head. When did you start cutting off heads for your saws??






bwalker said:


> Marky, Your looking at the bottom of the cylinder in that pic.






Mr. said:


> Marky was correct.
> 
> Fred





bwalker said:


> On second look you right. I didnt see the transfer off to the left and thought it had the same style jug as a 044 or a 395.



Looks like the bottom of the jug to me, what am I missing? :bang:


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 22, 2006)

It is the bottom of the jug trimmed. I thought that was obvious?
Thanks for straightening it out for those that were confused.
John


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## Freakingstang (Jan 22, 2006)

Hey John, I like the pics and information you are saying here. I believe, that there is always a learning experience with differant cylinders/heads. I come from the car back ground and have ported many heads and intake in high horsepower applications...yet these little two strokes kinda scare me  

I think the information in this thread is a little better than the one where you removed matrial from the piston skirt. I have found that raising the exhaust port raises the powerband, but what does lowering the intake port do? What about the transfer ports? Do you want them to hold more volume, or as little as possible? 

i am working on a couple cylinders right now that are trial by fire, a 55 (closed port) and a 365 SP (closed) 

When you make changes, do you do one thing, and then test, or do you do the entire job and test? I try to make minimal changes, then assemble and test in the same piece of wood as before. Keep up the good work


Steve


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 22, 2006)

Very good questions Steve. When we raise the exhaust we are also sacrificing the volume of gas/air at TDC, however, the gain is greater than the loss. We can correct the compression loss by either turning down the base of the barrel or removing the base gasket and replacing it with a thinner gasket.
Lowering the intake increases the duration that the port is open, thus facilitating a larger charge of air/fuel to enter the crankcase.
I usually do all the ports and then test, but doing it step by step and testing may be better although more work.
John


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## Mange (Jan 22, 2006)

Good thread, John!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bwalker (Jan 22, 2006)

> Looks like the bottom of the jug to me, what am I missing?


 
It sure does in that last pic.


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 23, 2006)

Here's a cuttoff head of an 084.
John


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## 04ultra (Jan 23, 2006)

The pictures are looking good Gypo...


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## ned coed (Jan 25, 2006)

*porting two strokes*

i found when porting my two stroke racing yamaha,s (25 years ago i must add) that the best tool for porting work was a flexy foot controlled arbour. cutting speed for best results was approx 16,000rpm with hss multi edged cutters of various sizes and shapes they were,nt cheap but they would eat alli or the steel liner with equal efficiency. regards to all, NED.

p s just found this site- it,s a fantastic source of information, more power to it.


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## ned coed (Jan 25, 2006)

*Porting Two Strokes*

hi again just reading through some past threads on porting. to the inexperienced out there a cautionary note. when you alter the the top or bottom edges of ports you are in effect altering the phase timing of the engine ie in four strokes it would be the equivalent of reprofiling the cam lobes so be carefull and remember each port edge should have no burrs,round the edges with a very fine carborundoum stone and try not to alter too much, especially the transfer port entry angles into the cylinder as this could drastically effect the scavenging phase in the cylinder. regards, NED.


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## troutfisher (Feb 5, 2009)

Simonizer said:


> Use a front-exhausting CP mini-die-grinder. Put about 3 cc's of ATF in the inlet for each port you cut, it will lube the carbide burr as you work. Here is another tip for you junior; cut the head off a 1/4" X 2" capscrew. Slice it down the center 1". You can now tear a 3" long piece of emery cloth roll and install it in the slot twisting it clockwise to give you a very nice polishing tool. I use 240 grit. The nice thing about this set-up is as follows: it is aggressive at first allowing you to profile and perfect your surface, as it plugs up with aluminum, (and ATF), it effectively becomes 400 grit, 600 grit and almost crokus cloth at the end. Your finish will be mirror-like. Cheers.



That's a pretty good trick with the 1/4" bolt and emery cloth, I'll give that a try!


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## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2009)

I got a piece of 1/4" aluminum rod from Lowes. That way when I accidentaly go through the paper, I don't tear up my work.


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## brncreeper (Feb 5, 2009)

troutfisher said:


> That's a pretty good trick with the 1/4" bolt and emery cloth, I'll give that a try!


That is a good trick! Those capscrews are plentiful and would make a good polishing tool. The one inch slot would be a little tricky to cut. 
Kinda off topic but I wish Simon would give us a picture of his dyno with a chainsaw on it sometime, I think that would be kinda cool.
Here's to Gypo and all his long lost posts!


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## troutfisher (Feb 5, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I got a piece of 1/4" aluminum rod from Lowes. That way when I accidentaly go through the paper, I don't tear up my work.



Aluminum is a good idea too, I'm sure steel would dig up a jug if it made contact. Brass would be an option too.


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## Austin1 (Feb 5, 2009)

I think the older threads on here were better than the newer ones? 
Sorry that's all I got!opcorn: Less band wagon jumping and more info for us dummies like me to chainsaws. I have used saw's for a long time but only recently have been interested in modding them.


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## Tree Sling'r (Feb 5, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I got a piece of 1/4" aluminum rod from Lowes. That way when I accidentaly go through the paper, I don't tear up my work.



I use a 3/8 wooden rod, cut a slit in the middle, run my emory cloth through it and run it in a drill on the fastest speed. Fast enough to finish and polish and not enough torque to break the dowel. Then again, if it does break I have another two feet and it was only about $1.50 anyway. I have used the same dowel for over a year and probably 60+ saws.


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## 046 (Jul 11, 2009)

getting ready to port and polish a new 026 cylinder... how much do I need to raise the exhaust port and lower the intake for a woods port. do I need to leave off base gasket to compensate for decreased compression? 

or shall I widen ports only and leave changing the timing alone?

got a lathe and mill, if machining is needed. 




Gypo Logger said:


> Chainsaw Master, as an alternative to the ink and scribe method, you can also invert a ringless piston into the barrel and take measurements that way.
> With an old piston you can cut the skirt after measuring and use it as a template to arrive at the actual height of the port.
> As far as the specs it is not an exact science however, experiment with small amounts like .5mm- 1.5 mm. You want to raise the exhaust and transfers while lowering the intake. With some saws I simply lower the intake 1mm and raise the exhaust .5 mm, while not touching the transfers.
> It's a fun learning thing and you won't screw up your saw if you don't go overboard. I'm not sure what you mean Whatsnext.
> ...


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## TJfromCC (Dec 16, 2012)

*Flattered*



jokers said:


> Nice work John! Now you`re plagiarizing the inside back cover of the C&C Specialties catalog.  I guess that no low is too low when you start at the bottom and then attempt dive deeper.
> 
> Russ



Hey man I am flattered.


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## sachsmo (Dec 16, 2012)

Good thread.

Notice how many of those guys no longer post, or are banned?


PITY.


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## sachsmo (Dec 16, 2012)

Really miss RedProspector,

Learned volumes from his posts.

Now there's a Man who can think outside the box.


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## Freakingstang (Dec 16, 2012)

Yeah those were definately the good old days... Most of the banned camp can still be found...


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## tlandrum (Dec 16, 2012)

welcome to the forum.


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## Jacob J. (Dec 16, 2012)

sachsmo said:


> Really miss RedProspector,
> 
> Learned volumes from his posts.
> 
> Now there's a Man who can think outside the box.



Andy was just here yesterday.


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