# Surfacing large slabs with a router



## Timberframed

Anyone know where that youtube post of two guys flattening a slab with an arcing motion jig and a crank. I kinda need to get to work on this table top.


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## foursaps

here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t51SSP12Gk8


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## r.man

Wow. Thats a lot like screeding concrete.


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## Timberframed

Thanks Foursaps! I went to a local shop here and he's got a 65" Timesaver but it would have cost me $500-$600 to do one side. If it takes me all day to do a 58"x 109" slab of White Ash I'm ahead. Besides I have 17 more like that


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## mtngun

Aggie's way


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## BobL

Here's mine. 

It can only handle 3 x 4 ft slabs but the principle can be extended to a much bigger area.


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## SPM in King

OK, here is a different take on the theme. I do need a bigger router!


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## BobL

Nice Job SPM - very professional.

I found a 1.5" bowl bit works better to start with than a flat ended bit. The rounded corners don't grab as much so I don't have to hold the router as firmly. Once I have the whole thing more or less flat then I finish with a flat ended bit.


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## 7oaks

*Amazing*

WOW!!! You guys are amazing! :jawdrop:


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## Cannon51

I like these bits for planing. They are designed for use on a Legacy router lathe but I have used them in a table. I would not recommend these large bits in a handheld router but they would probably be OK in these fixtures.
Cannon
http://magnate.net/index.cfm?event=showProductGroup&theID=136


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## BlueRider

Another source for tooling is Her-Saf. Their insert tooling is expensive but it is high quality and it is designed for use in a router. The arbors are sold seperately and you can get them in different lenths. I have one of their dovetail bits and I have a 1/4" and a 1/2" arbor so I can mount it in my laminate trimer and then unscrew the head and put it in my router table then I can unscrew the head and put it back on the arbor still in my laminate trimmer without loosing the set up in either router. The fly cutters are nice because you don't remove the bit to sharpen it. You just remove the insert and rotate it and pop it back in which lets you 'sharpen' the bit in the middle of a slab and not loose the height setting. 

http://www.hersaf.com/shop/index.php/action/category/id/7/subid/14/


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## BlueRider

I stumbled on this web site a while back and thought it was an interesting idea. its alot like spm's set up except it uses a motor and a side mounting blade like a lucas rather then a router and bit.

http://workcentresaustralia.com.au/home.aspx?pagename=SlabMaster

Unfortunately the web site is pretty sparse and it hasn't changed in a year. Maybe one of the Aussies here could shed some light on the company and their products.


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## TraditionalTool

The way I would do it...and how I did flatten my bench. That router looks like a lot of un-needed work. Do you know how to use a handplane?


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## BobL

TraditionalTool said:


> The way I would do it...and how I did flatten my bench. That router looks like a lot of un-needed work. Do you know how to use a handplane?



I love using my handplanes but because most Aussie timbers are cross grained and are very hard, depending on the number of pieces of wood I have to work on I usually revert to power tools for areas of wood to be thicknessed over about 5 square feet. 

Do go back and look at my pics, that little piece of wood I was working on is a desert gum and it was having its endgrain flattened. It has a janka hardness of about 3500 lbs force and will knock the edge off O1 or A2 plane blades in about 3 strokes. The router is much faster.


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## TraditionalTool

BobL said:


> Do go back and look at my pics, that little piece of wood I was working on is a desert gum and it was having its endgrain flattened. It has a janka hardness of about 3500 lbs force and will knock the edge off O1 or A2 plane blades in about 3 strokes. The router is much faster.


Wow, 3500, must be harder than the red gum we have here. I'm getting some Tasmanian Blue Gum, it's about 2200 I'm told, but your red gum is about 1300 higher?

The sweetgum I show on the Janka scales I'm looking at are not anything near 3500.

I guess it pays to learn how to sharpen...


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## BobL

TraditionalTool said:


> Wow, 3500, must be harder than the red gum we have here. I'm getting some Tasmanian Blue Gum, it's about 2200 I'm told, but your red gum is about 1300 higher? The sweetgum I show on the Janka scales I'm looking at are not anything near 3500.



Red gum is considered an intermediate hardness timber on the Aussie hardness scale. Of the 100 hardest trees in the world about one quarter are from Australia and given that 70% of Australia is desert then thats a pretty small area from which these trees are derived. BTW, Sweet Gum is not a related to what we call "gum" or "Eucalyptus" , Sweetgum is an Altingiaceae.



> I guess it pays to learn how to sharpen...


Whether it's CS or hand planes, in these tough timbers it certainly does pay to learn how to sharpen.


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## imagineero

Hi Bob,
You might try using floor sanding gear? I own a hiretech HT-8 drum sander and a HT 7 edger which I use occasionally for commercial floor sanding. New price for both machines is over $10k, used I bought both for about $3k which was a good deal. They can be hired out for about $100/weekend from some hire places... shop around. Grits are available from 16~400. 

I've done redgum and ironbark floors with this equipment, and it is quick. I find I can take most hardwood floors (even recycled 80+year old hardwoods) from boards higher and lower than each other by 5mm down to near mirror finish in about 4 hours per average (20square meter) room. 

Recently I bought some recycled 100 year old ironbark in 12x3 and 5x3 for making a staircase. It was only very rough cut, and not in great condition. I laid the 12x3 on the floor and used the floor sander on it. It took about 15 minutes to do 8metres on all sides.

The 5x3 was a lot quicker. Since it was short I turned the drum sander upside down and ran the 5x3 across it by hand. 3-4 passes brought it up pretty good with heavy pressure and a 40 grit pad. 

Shaun


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## BobL

imagineero said:


> Hi Bob,
> You might try using floor sanding gear? I own a hiretech HT-8 drum sander and a HT 7 edger which I use occasionally for commercial floor sanding. New price for both machines is over $10k, used I bought both for about $3k which was a good deal. They can be hired out for about $100/weekend from some hire places... shop around. Grits are available from 16~400.
> 
> I've done redgum and ironbark floors with this equipment, and it is quick. I find I can take most hardwood floors (even recycled 80+year old hardwoods) from boards higher and lower than each other by 5mm down to near mirror finish in about 4 hours per average (20square meter) room.
> 
> Recently I bought some recycled 100 year old ironbark in 12x3 and 5x3 for making a staircase. It was only very rough cut, and not in great condition. I laid the 12x3 on the floor and used the floor sander on it. It took about 15 minutes to do 8metres on all sides.
> 
> The 5x3 was a lot quicker. Since it was short I turned the drum sander upside down and ran the 5x3 across it by hand. 3-4 passes brought it up pretty good with heavy pressure and a 40 grit pad.
> 
> Shaun



This works OK if the slab is already reasonably flat and even, but some of the stuff I have dealt with varies in thickness by 1/2 an inch in 2" - trying to level this with a floor sander would be tough. A big variable thickness belt sander is another prospect - we have one at the milling yard that will handle 9 ft x 6 ft slabs - trouble is, someone backed into it with a truck and it "needs some work".


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## Oden

*50mm surfacing bit*

Guy

This is what I made some years ago, works well just a bit slow.View attachment 146295
View attachment 146295


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## BobL

Oden said:


> Guy
> 
> This is what I made some years ago, works well just a bit slow.View attachment 146295
> View attachment 146295



Nice, but I see your DC was as effective as mine.If I was doing it more regularly I'd make a shroud of some kind to trap more of the dust.


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## CHEVYTOWN13

Routers kickass


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## Brmorgan

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> Routers kickass



Sure do.

I've done odd-shaped pieces much smaller than the one in the video with a much less sophisticated setup. If I ever do get into big slab work a rig like that will be the first thing I build though.

I could do just about anything with just a router and my radial arm saw if I really had to. Speaking of which my radial does have a shaper/router collet on the outboard end of the motor; I never even thought of trying to put a flattening bit in it. Hmm.... 2HP overhead trammel 16" thickness planer... might be useful.


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## CHEVYTOWN13

B money, when are you going to try the pipe for the 365

I use a router to help remove material when porting. I call it the MEX  PORT. I'll be using a router one of these days to make a pop-up and mill the cylinder. I just need THE TIME to make a few jigs that will be absolutely perfect and adapt them to my wood bench, as opposed to the craftsman table. And that will take some time and commitment. I have too many deals around the crib right now. I do have the Amana pattern bit that will do the cutting. Some fools have been talking smack about not being able to use routers to mill 2 stroke cylinders/pistons. I refrain from naming these bentovers. I just want to drop THE BOMB on them:hmm3grin2orange:





It makes clean cuts. On the right side, I tried a climb cut, but was unsuccessful.


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## Timberframed

[/URL][/IMG] I can see where chip collection is a must. The router slides back and forth in the sled so it only needs to be 8" longer than the width of the slab. This was too easy!



[/URL][/IMG]


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## Timberframed

Here is my milling saw. ICS 633. Made by Oleo Mac as it's their triple 9 fatback. No internal oiling provision so I use a fuel tank from a Coleman 425 camp stove plumbed into the water intake. Regulating the valve as it's under pressure. Works fine. All I have to do is change bars and I can slab rocks too!



[/URL][/IMG]


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## gemniii

router bit sale

http://www.amazon.com/b/ref=xs_gb_b...HJQS8XVA5X4B3XSVZ8&prv=forums&cur=forums&ses=

What size/type would one advise for finishing slabs?


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## Brmorgan

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> B money, when are you going to try the pipe for the 365



B Money, lol, I WISH I was money right now... Far from it! 

I hadn't forgotten about your generous offer, but I'm actually just getting ready to work on polishing that 365 up a bit to try to sell it. I need some cash to pay the plastic down a bit (largely from buying other saws, you know how it is...), and much as I like it, that's the one I really have no use for other than to sit and look nice -the ported 371 is simply more fun!

Thanks again man, if anything changes or I get hold of another 365 you might be hearing from me!

PS - interested in a completely stock, unmodded 365 to work on? LOL.


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## BlueRider

gemniii said:


> router bit sale
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/b/ref=xs_gb_b...HJQS8XVA5X4B3XSVZ8&prv=forums&cur=forums&ses=
> 
> What size/type would one advise for finishing slabs?



It depends on how much you will be surfacing and what kind of wood. For any tough woods such as elm or for a large table top I would refer you back to a post I made on page one of this thread with a link to Her-Saf carbide insert tooling. With a normal carbide bit to sharpen it you need to remove it from the router. If it becomes necessary to sharpen a bit in the middle of a slab you then have to hasssle with setting it back up at the same height. with the carbide insert tooling all you have to do is remove the carbide insert rotate it 90* and reinstall it, all while the router bit remains installed in your router.

Her-Saf bits are pricey but it is just like your milling saw. You can get by milling with a 45cc poulan but to do it efficiently and have the saw last a lifetime you need a 90cc+ saw.

If you get one of those bits from amazon you need to have a diamond file on hand and know how to use it to sharpen the bit. For a traditional bit you will get the best results from a 1/2" shank if yiour router will accept it. You will also get better performance from a larger diameter bit with a shorter cutting length. ie. a bit with 3/4" cutting depth vs one with 1 1/2" cutting depth. addithonaly a larger diameter bit will cut a larger area and therfore surfce the slab faster provided your router has the juce to push it. I have a 1 1/2" diameter bit with a 1' cutting depth that I can run in a 3 hp router. 

hope this helps


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## gemniii

BlueRider said:


> Her-Saf bits are pricey but it is just like your milling saw. You can get by milling with a 45cc poulan but to do it efficiently and have the saw last a lifetime you need a 90cc+ saw.


At $60+ per Her-Saf bit vs. $5/Milwaukeea bit there's quite a price difference (note most of the RETAIL prices of the Milwaukee bits are around $20, and can be found for about $8, do you find Her-Saf bits on sale for 25% or $15?) . I looked at it more as the difference between Granberg ripping chain ($7/foot) and Woodland Pro ($2.70/foot).

I've used the same "cheap" bits for years and always viewed them as disposable. Not so the router that runs it.



BlueRider said:


> If you get one of those bits from amazon you need to have a diamond file on hand and know how to use it to sharpen the bit. For a traditional bit you will get the best results from a 1/2" shank if yiour router will accept it. You will also get better performance from a larger diameter bit with a shorter cutting length. ie. a bit with 3/4" cutting depth vs one with 1 1/2" cutting depth. addithonaly a larger diameter bit will cut a larger area and therfore surfce the slab faster provided your router has the juce to push it. I have a 1 1/2" diameter bit with a 1' cutting depth that I can run in a 3 hp router.
> 
> hope this helps



Thanks, I bought a half dozen bits for $30. I'll see how long they last.
Maybe I'll learn to sharpen bits.


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## Brmorgan

BlueRider said:


> It depends on how much you will be surfacing and what kind of wood. For any tough woods such as elm or for a large table top I would refer you back to a post I made on page one of this thread with a link to Her-Saf carbide insert tooling. With a normal carbide bit to sharpen it you need to remove it from the router. If it becomes necessary to sharpen a bit in the middle of a slab you then have to hasssle with setting it back up at the same height. with the carbide insert tooling all you have to do is remove the carbide insert rotate it 90* and reinstall it, all while the router bit remains installed in your router.
> 
> Her-Saf bits are pricey but it is just like your milling saw. You can get by milling with a 45cc poulan but to do it efficiently and have the saw last a lifetime you need a 90cc+ saw.
> 
> If you get one of those bits from amazon you need to have a diamond file on hand and know how to use it to sharpen the bit. For a traditional bit you will get the best results from a 1/2" shank if yiour router will accept it. You will also get better performance from a larger diameter bit with a shorter cutting length. ie. a bit with 3/4" cutting depth vs one with 1 1/2" cutting depth. addithonaly a larger diameter bit will cut a larger area and therfore surfce the slab faster provided your router has the juce to push it. I have a 1 1/2" diameter bit with a 1' cutting depth that I can run in a 3 hp router.
> 
> hope this helps



Dang, I paid something like $75 CDN for the Freud 1-1/4" bowl-and-tray bottom-cutting bit that I have for doing this with. It has a rounded corner and won't leave lines between passes, which is nice.


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## betterbuilt

How about a little on how to sand a big slab also. I normally use a 5 inch orbital palm sander or a hand scraper depending on the size of the slab But I was feeling lazy and went the easy way. 










I rented this 6 inch four disc orbital sander for the day and it was well worth the cost. The walnut sanded really easy. I started with 36 grit and went down to 120. I had about ten slabs ready and made it through maybe 5. The only reason I didn't finish is because the others were Hard maple and the lowest paper they had at the rental place was 36 grit. 36 seems like it would be rough enough but the 36 grit cuts like its 60 grit.


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## Timberframed

I like that idea. Might want to invest in one of those.


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## betterbuilt

I rented this time and plan to by one but the $2500 new price tag is a little steep. I hear the box stores sell them used every once and a while but haven't found one close enough yet. They do a real nice job. I think it would pay for itself in a hurry. 

One thing I would have to say is on smaller slabs you need to build batter boards so the sander doesn't fly off it. When you switch from 36 grit to 40 grit the sander starts to move a lot faster and is a little harder to control. It really does a good job of picking up the saw dust.


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## Brmorgan

That thing is cool! Never seen anything like it before.


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## betterbuilt

Brmorgan said:


> That thing is cool! Never seen anything like it before.


Heres the link. It called the U sand. Actually made in the USA. 
http://www.cherryhillmfg.com/u-sand/specs.htm


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## betterbuilt

I have a bunch of pictures but they are all about the same. Heres one for BobL.


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## Timberframed

That triple head hand held looks mightly inviting as another addition to the Shop. Something like this mounted on rails as in router milling could achieve mirror lake flat in little time.


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## betterbuilt

I forgot they had that smaller one. The Lucas mill has an attachment that does something like that.


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## Timberframed

Betterbuilt, Thanks for clueing us in on a better/easier way to do what we love to do. The dust part I appreciate the most as I chew tobacco and don't like masks.


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## imagineero

you might want to look into floor sanders, that's what I use for doing recycled timber slabs. I bought mine as part of my business but I dont find I really use it that much for floors. I make a few dollars renting it out to people which is nice and helps offset the cost of owning it.

Most floor sanders have 2 or 3 machines, a 10" or 12" drum sander or belt sander, an edger which is usually a 6" orbital and a big random orbital or floor polisher for finishing. 

The drum/belt machines are incredibly heavy duty and have excellent dust extraction. The consumables are moderately priced by my standards and they are super fast. Grits go way down to about 6 I think, Ive never had to use anything rougher than 24. I generally don't use anything finer than about an 80 grit either.

The edgers are quite expensive, but like the floor sanders they have inbuilt dust extraction, are incredibly heavily built, extremely powerful, and made for continuous usage with 100% duty cycles at full load. There's no comparison to off the shelf hand orbitals. I once sanded a 2 square metre floor in my house where the boards were redgum, freshly laid, and in quite good condition with only 1~2mm variation in height. It took me about 15 hours with a makita 6" random orbital going through the various grits. I then bought the edger which was also a 6" orbital and did the same job in another wardrobe in about 40 minutes with no dust. I then bought the floor sander and did whole rooms in about an hour per room.

The gear is pricey if you buy new, but there is a lot of used stuff on the market. The machines I have cost about $9,000 brand new but I bought them for $2000 used and in near new condition (all in au$). They are built to last a lifetime and there is excellent support and spare parts available. They were made to be hired out and I do hire them at $150/weekend or $300 for a week. My local hardware has the same machines and hires them out for $150/day. Bunnings has a similar model from a different manufacturer and charges $100/day. 

I've fully recovered the cost of buying these machines through hiring them out, and the ongoing occasional hire covers all my personal consumables. I'm sure I'll make a few thousand off them over the next few years and then probably still be able to sell them for what I paid, so it seems not a bad idea to have them. Could be worth considering if you are doing a lot of slabs.

Shaun


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## Timberframed

There's a unit like you used for sale here for $1000 and looks new. I'll see about it. Need to do all the floors in my house anyway and would soon pay for itself along with no pressure to get it done before the clock runs out.


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## betterbuilt

Timberframed said:


> There's a unit like you used for sale here for $1000 and looks new. I'll see about it. Need to do all the floors in my house anyway and would soon pay for itself along with no pressure to get it done before the clock runs out.



I did a job that the owner bought one from HD(box store) for $800 and it was pretty nice. It needed new pads for the base but otherwise was in good shape.
I think he got it in New Jersey or Long Island.


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## Timberframed

Went there today (hd) and now there are 2 for sale. Store supervisor wasn't there at the moment and I couldn't hang around but I'm thinking 2 for $1500. Sold get'em outa' here ya cheap bastidge and don't come back here any more!


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## Metals406

Is there a reason you fellas haven't replaced them routers with hand held power planes in those gantry's? Seems like it would be an easy adaptation, and a heck of a lot quicker.


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## Timberframed

That's a good point but switching bits out is easier than changing hand held planer knives. Maybe I'm just getting lazy. I'll think about that yet the setup would be a little more involved. I can take 3/4" single pass w/ a router. I believe the 6 amp planers can only do 1/4 max and straining at that.


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## Metals406

Timberframed said:


> That's a good point but switching bits out is easier than changing hand held planer knives. Maybe I'm just getting lazy. I'll think about that yet the setup would be a little more involved. I can take 3/4" single pass w/ a router. I believe the 6 amp planers can only do 1/4 max and straining at that.



3/4" deep?? How uneven are these slabs?

I have Tim Allen Syndrome. . . I'd get sick of all those little passes and make something that took a huge surfacing bit. LOL


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## Timberframed

I milled them 2 3/4" had a 1/2" warp after 3 years but latest client needed only 1 5/8" so with a 1 1/2 bit it took about an hour and a half with 2 beer breaks. Liked putting a straightedge on afterwards and would need a feeler gauge to find discrepencies.


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## Metals406

Timberframed said:


> I milled them 2 3/4" had a 1/2" warp after 3 years but latest client needed only 1 5/8" so with a 1 1/2 bit it took about an hour and a half with 2 beer breaks. Liked putting a straightedge on afterwards and would need a feeler gauge to find discrepencies.



Ahhh, twist, it's a killer. I guess an hour and a half ain't too bad. I would probably find a surplus motor and make a big surfacer. . . Don't hate me, I'm sick don't ya know.


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## Timberframed

They are circular planer heads for radial arm saws. Something like that chucked into a big enough motor might do but any tilt due to hopping might dig deeper possibly ruining the slab from a flatness/minimum thickness perspective.


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## Metals406

Timberframed said:


> They are circular planer heads for radial arm saws. Something like that chucked into a big enough motor might do but any tilt due to hopping might dig deeper possibly ruining the slab from a flatness/minimum thickness perspective.



There's got to be a better way than an inch+ wide per pass. . . I'll have to do some thinking on it.


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## Brmorgan

*Old PopSci rotary planer article from 1963*

Came across this today on Google Books:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=pSA...0CDYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=rotary planer&f=false

I've never seen one of those bits before though. Sure love to have one.

I remember seeing a photo somewhere a few years back - I believe it was in a magazine article about the big old White Pine sawmills in Northern Ontario back in the late 1800s - which showed their old planer mill, which was a huge horizontal rotary head probably 24" in diameter which operated on the same principle as this little version. Only it would do the whole board in one pass. I remember seeing HUGE chips and shavings coming off of it in the photo. Can't find anything like it on the net right now, but I haven't spent that much time looking.


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## Metals406

Brmorgan said:


> Came across this today on Google Books:
> 
> http://books.google.ca/books?id=pSA...0CDYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=rotary planer&f=false
> 
> I've never seen one of those bits before though. Sure love to have one.
> 
> I remember seeing a photo somewhere a few years back - I believe it was in a magazine article about the big old White Pine sawmills in Northern Ontario back in the late 1800s - which showed their old planer mill, which was a huge horizontal rotary head probably 24" in diameter which operated on the same principle as this little version. Only it would do the whole board in one pass. I remember seeing HUGE chips and shavings coming off of it in the photo. Can't find anything like it on the net right now, but I haven't spent that much time looking.




http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/0/206/Drill-Press-Safety-Planer.aspx


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## Timberframed

I don't know guys. There is a safety factor that has to be considered first and foremost when trying to achieve speed over time. The more mass of the material that is to be removed requires more energy both by the operator and the machine. I don't think asking one of these rotary planers (3.5") to remove 5/8" in a single pass at 15,000 rpm is advised. I'm happy with an hour and a half of router milling at this time. Be safe!

OK! 58minutes without a beer break.


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## Metals406

Timberframed said:


> I don't know guys. There is a safety factor that has to be considered first and foremost when trying to achieve speed over time. The more mass of the material that is to be removed requires more energy both by the operator and the machine. I don't think asking one of these rotary planers (3.5") to remove 5/8" in a single pass at 15,000 rpm is advised. I'm happy with an hour and a half of router milling at this time. Be safe!
> 
> OK! 58minutes without a beer break.


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## Metals406

Perhaps: http://www.amanatool.com/cncroutingdetails/rc-2252.html

Or: http://www.amazon.com/Magnate-Surface-Planning-Bottom-Cleaning/dp/B0006B0PX0


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## betterbuilt

The Wagner Safe-T-Planer is only rated for 6000rpm.

The lucas mill has that planer attachment for it. I believe it also has a sander attachment. I really think that would be the way to go if it wasn't 10000+


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## CHEVYTOWN13

Brmorgan said:


> B Money, lol, I WISH I was money right now... Far from it!
> 
> I hadn't forgotten about your generous offer, but I'm actually just getting ready to work on polishing that 365 up a bit to try to sell it. I need some cash to pay the plastic down a bit (largely from buying other saws, you know how it is...), and much as I like it, that's the one I really have no use for other than to sit and look nice -the ported 371 is simply more fun!
> 
> Thanks again man, if anything changes or I get hold of another 365 you might be hearing from me!
> 
> PS - interested in a completely stock, unmodded 365 to work on? LOL.



Bro, you're one of the few in the beginning that gave me the benefit of the doubt. For that, you're like money in my book

No worries brother on the pipe. On the 365, it sounds like you should be able to sell it quick here at the post. They are great saws and wood have kept mine had it not been for the 7901.

Big Routers Rule™ Nate!


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## Metals406

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> Bro, you're one of the few in the beginning that gave me the benefit of the doubt. For that, you're like money in my book
> 
> No worries brother on the pipe. On the 365, it sounds like you should be able to sell it quick here at the post. They are great saws and wood have kept mine had it not been for the 7901.
> 
> Big Routers Rule™ Nate!



I agree!

I wonder if I can build one with this Datsun 4 cylinder I have here? :monkey:

Don't look at me funny. . . I said I have Tim Allen Syndrome!


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## BobL

Brmorgan said:


> Came across this today on Google Books:
> 
> http://books.google.ca/books?id=pSA...0CDYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=rotary planer&f=false
> 
> I've never seen one of those bits before though. Sure love to have one.



Those safety planners can only make 1/16" deep passes at about 2000 rpm in dry Aussie hardwood otherwise they get too hot and they also go blunt very quickly. They also can't be used on drill presses for too long because drill press bearings are not designed to take such high side loads.

I use a 35 mm (1.4") diameter bowl dish cutter in my router mill setup but even with this the most depth I feel I can cut safely in Aussie hardwood is about 1/8" per pass


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## SPM in King

*Spoilboard cutter*

OK, I picked this up the other day and tried it yesterday. All I can say is WOW!! Ultra smooth cut, fewer chips and for some reason, it does not use as much HP as the 1.5" straight bit I was using previously. Likely because of the up-cut angle, which also helps chip collection.

This one comes with 2 x 4 sided carbide knives. They are replaceable and can be rotated (hence the 4 sides). Replacement knives are $1.75 each. So I bought 10. The diameter is 2.5". I will ultimately need a BIG router run this, but it does work with the small one. It's so much faster than the other bit, I will likely shave surfacing times by 75%. Finishing times will be faster as well.

Bad news: $325 CD. But, unlike a fixed bit, I will only buy it once.

Steve.


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## betterbuilt

nice. where did you find it?


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## imagineero

that looks like standard blades off a metal lathe to me. you can buy the blades at pretty much any machine shop. The holder looks like an attachment for an end mill (a metal milling machine). I've seen 4 bladed versions of the same thing in metal shops but had never thought to use one on timer. Yuu could probably find a whole bunch of similar things new and second hand if you search for milling heads. Great idea! I think for this size of bit you are supposed to use a lower speed on your router so the world doesn't end. Triton makes a half decent and reasonably priced variable speed router.

Shaun


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## SPM in King

I have a Triton 3.25 HP. I use it on my router table. Nice machine. Seems very well made. I will likely pick up a router motor that I can mount on my rig.

I got this bit at a place called BC Saw, here in Toronto. They have an on-line catalog. They sharpen my saw blades.


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## imagineero

SPM in King said:


> I have a Triton 3.25 HP. I use it on my router table. Nice machine. Seems very well made. I will likely pick up a router motor that I can mount on my rig.
> 
> I got this bit at a place called BC Saw, here in Toronto. They have an on-line catalog. They sharpen my saw blades.



Sounds like you're onto a good thing ;-) I had a bit of a look at milling bits and pieces on ebay australia today and there's a bit of stuff around but none of it readily plugs into a router. If anyone is interested have a look for 'face milling cutter". They come in all shapes and sizes, 2" and 3" are the most common for the ones with replaceable inserts. They go for anything from au$100-$250 so they are probably worth about $10 in america ;-) Trouble is they all come with either a number 2 or number 3 morse taper so they would need to be put on a lathe and cut down to 1/2" for putting in a router. Free if you have your own lathe, budget on a carton if you need someone to do it.

They come in all sizes right up to about 12" diameter. You'd probably need to make up a custom machine for one that big, but I've seen a couple of milling places that use heads around 6"-9" for milling slabs so I guess it's achievable. The bigger cutting heads seem to mostly have fixed teeth that would need professional sharpening. They're made of HSS and intended to cut steel so I'm guessing pretty good life in timber.


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## olyman

Timberframed said:


> Here is my milling saw. ICS 633. Made by Oleo Mac as it's their triple 9 fatback. No internal oiling provision so I use a fuel tank from a Coleman 425 camp stove plumbed into the water intake. Regulating the valve as it's under pressure. Works fine. All I have to do is change bars and I can slab rocks too!
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/IMG]



you mean a cutoff saw????


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## betterbuilt

olyman said:


> you mean a cutoff saw????



I think he means he has a concrete chain for his saw.


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## SPM in King

*Spoilboard cutter*

My concern with bits meant to cut metal is that they might not run at the high RPM of a wood cutting tool. Perhaps someone with some expertise can weigh in on this. Here is the link for this baby. It is the 91-104 (90-004) version. There are others out there, including Her-saf and Amana. Her-saf looks like it might be less money, but as with the Aussies, it's always more to get things in Canada (15-20%).

http://www.onsrud.com/xdoc/Spoilboard

It's meant to run at 12-16K RPM. Onsrud lists it at $430USD on their site.


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## Timberframed

These spoilboard cutters look promising enough though it states max. depth of cut 1/8" in aluminum and plastics. Sometimes we need to go a lot more than that. I would have to try one and see. As for the saw, it was designed to plunge through 18" of hard, reinforced concrete and I did just that 5 different times. I was called onto a job where 4 openings were needed 4' x 4'. 16" of some the hardest conc. w/ # 8 every 6" we ever dealt with. This powerhead went through no problem. Wonder what the Janka test results would be on 4000 psi 8 bag mix air entrained conc.?. Trying to double up the use of it ($2000 USD) with the same bar mount pattern as an 090, it has absolutely no problem going through any kind of wood around here. It kind of likes to. The stock clutch drum is stamped Oregon.


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## aggiewoodbutchr

Great thread! I would post pics of my router rig but someone beat me to it.

Here's another method I've used for badly warped slabs. Just suspend the CSM rails over the slab and resaw. Use the freshly cut surface to mill the opposite side just as you would cut it off the log. You'll have to play leap frog with your supports.






Use the freshly cut surface to mill the opposite side just as you would cut it off the log. You'll have to play leap frog with your supports.


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## gemniii

Since this thread had so much good info I decided to tag onto it rather than start a new one. 

I just got a Milwaukee 3.5 HP router that should have the HP to turn the big bits.
Milwaukee Tool | Routers | 3-1/2 Max HP Fixed-Base Production Router with Electronic Variable Speed, Feedback Circuitry, and Soft-Start

Looking at my lumber pile I've some 20" plus rough lumber that needs to be surfaced. Looking at my wallet and Craigs List I don't have enough pictures of Benjamin Franklin ($100 bill for the non-U.S.  ) to get a decent 20" plus planer soon.

Since I've wanted to build a planer sled as soon as I found out about them I've now got the router to do it.
I've looked at many threads:
Flattening Workbenches and Wide Boards With A Router - YouTube
Planing with a router...what's your setup? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
Plane a large table top flat using just a router - YouTube
Surfacing rough lumber without a 16" jointer - by GaryK @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community
The Sorted Details: How to Flatten a Cutting Board
Planing with a Router - Router Forums
Woodhaven Planing Sleds - YouTube

They all seem to be fairly simple and relatively easy to build. But they are very "human labor needed".
Has anyone built one with stepper motors to pull the router back and forth and down the board? Or seen any plans for such a tool? I'm envisioning sort of a low tech CNC machine that I could adjust the width of the board and let the motor run back and forth and proceed down the board..


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## glennschumann

*Surfacing bit*

Here is a bit that some use for surfacing... often called a "spoil board" bit

It is made my "Magnate" in the US, and for under $25, seems like a pretty reasonable way to go.

Amazon.com: Magnate 2705 Surface Planing ( Bottom Cleaning ) Router Bit - 1-1/2" Cutting Diameter: Home Improvement


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## MGoodwin

*Magnate Bit*

I have that bit (actually a 2.5" I think) and have put a lot through it. It works well for the price although it will raise the wood fibers leaving "streaks" the entire length (I run my cutting paths the length of the board) that I have to be careful about removing during sanding. Taking shallow cuts with smaller step-overs (about .5") really helps. I recently purchased a new frued bit that essentially only cuts on the outside (like a spoilboard) to see if that helps.


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## gemniii

Looking at the face mills - What's the largest bit you would try with a 3.5hp router?
2.5"?


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## SPM in King

2.5" seems to be a good size. I have used the smaller bits, but have not been able to take a full diameter pass with them. So, a 1" bit takes a 1/2" pass. The nice 2.5" bits a have carbide inserts. This is a huge advantage. In the really hard woods, I get one or two slabs surfaced before changing the carbide. 

Steve.


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## BlueRider

gemniii said:


> Looking at the face mills - What's the largest bit you would try with a 3.5hp router?
> 2.5"?



It depends on if your router is variable speed, and soft start would be nice. 

if you do a bit of math the edge of a 1/2" bit is traveling at about 2,600 feet/minute when the router is running at 20,000rpm. if you put that 2.5" diameter bit in there at the same rpm the edge will be traveling at about 13,000 feet per minute. this is way to fast and will cause over heating and shorten the life of the cutting edge as well as make the bit more likely to burn the wood. If you crank the router down to 4,000 rpm when running the 2.5" bit then the cutting edge will be running at about the same speed as the 1/2" bit. if your router won't adjust down that slow then the 2.5" bit is too big for it.


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## SPM in King

Good point on router speed. This is from the Onsrud site:

"SPOILBOARD CUTTERS ARE ENGINEERED FOR CNC ROUTER APPLICATIONS. THE 1-1/4” AND 2-1/2” DIAMETER TOOLS SHOULD BE FED AT 200-600 IPM AT 12,000-16,000 RPM. 4” DIAMTER TOOLS SHOULD RUN AT 200-600 IPM AT 12,000-14,000 RPM. ONE-HALF TO THREEQUARTERS OF THE TOOL DIAMETER SHOULD BE UTILIZED IN A STEP-OVER PROCESS TO MAXIMIZE SMOOTHNESS. MAXIMUM DEPTH OF CUT SHOULD NOT EXCEED 1/8”."

Higher than 4000 rpm, but you still need a variable speed option. I run at 16,000. It seems fine at that speed. 1/8" cut depth on hardwood will kill your router. Try 1/16". 

Steve.


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## gemniii

Thanks for the pointers on router speed.

The router does have variable speed and soft start, but only goes down to 10,000 rpm.

I was planning on building a "planer sled" for the router. 
Reviewing other designs people have used from 2x4's to angle iron to stiffen a 3/4" plywood base of the sled.
However looking thru my basement for suitable material to stiffen the base I found this contraption with aluminum rails and adjustable side rails that I think I can just "plop" a plywood base on top. The contraption is one of my Alaskan Mark III's.
Pics will follow if I ever get something built.


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## smuzz

I'm currently gathering parts for a sled myself but not having a huge work space and wanting to make a wide sled to handle some crotches, forks, or two joined pieces. Have a need for something I can disassemble and store so am using the extruded t-slot aluminum or 80/20 they make some nice linear bearings with locks that would be a slick setup for rails and the carriage and work pretty good in dusty situations. Probably be a year or so before finished a lot of my bigger wood still has a year or so before dry anyways. I'm just getting started in this, I know it's pretty pricey but if patient can find some decent deals on ebay or have good sources to scrounge. Just some food for thought if looking for some rails and something is easy to assemble and disassemble.

Another note on using a metal milling face mill for wood is generally they have a small contact area with surface and not made to take deep cuts depending on model. I have milled some wood in my metal mill not recommended dust is bad for them but the face mills, I have seemed to rip the fibers making streaks on soft woods not so noticeable on hardwoods but not a great surface finish though my mill can't spin at router speeds. Something to pay attention to if re-purposing metal cutter there is thousands of different kinds and inserts types.


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