# Who watched 20/20 today? Scared Stiff special?



## arminkropp (Feb 23, 2007)

Towards the end of the show they summed up that as dangerous as some jobs like Firefighting and Policeman respectively are, the top jobs that your likely to get injured/killed at are......

#1....Fishing like in Deadliest Catch. Middle of the ocean, deep sea fishing.

#2....Arborist/logging. They talked to a guy for a brief second that had a facial injury (kickback I presume) and they mentioned falling branches (widowmakers) killing people.

You shoulda seen the look my wife gave me and the "I told you so's" after seeing that!


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## kevinj (Feb 23, 2007)

I guess it depends what you read.
According to the news paper,
Logging and aborist work was # 1.


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## TimberMcPherson (Feb 24, 2007)

kevinj said:


> I guess it depends what you read.
> According to the news paper,
> Logging and aborist work was # 1.



Fishermen work seasonally, and some at the end of the season claim injury to get compo until the next season starts up, its pretty common practice amongst crews, thats why there insurance is so high.


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## adam (Feb 24, 2007)

if i remember correctly what Dr. John Ball said, loggers are undisputed no.1, arborists 2-5.


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## ben14826 (Feb 24, 2007)

From what I've heard Logging, Mining, and Farming all take turns at being the number one dangerous occupation.


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## Blinky (Feb 24, 2007)

It also depends on how you measure it. Some rate danger based on fatalities only, others on injuries and fatalities, some based on insurance claims, yadayadayada.

One thing's for certain, work involving tree climbing, trimming and removal can be extremely hazardous, especially when you're trying to beat the clock. 

Hazards can be classified as either objective or subjective. Aborists are dealing mostly with subjective hazards... that is, our methods and behavior can influence whether something is actually dangerous or not. Know your stuff, make good judgements and execute correctly and the job is relatively safe.

Objective hazards are not controllable by knowledge or behavior, you either accept them or you don't. Firefighters deal with objective hazards all the time... they go into a smoke filled building and can't see anything at all. Falling structure, explosive materials sudden changes in draft are all objective dangers that no amount of judgement can protect them from once they choose to go in.

There are always surprises on tree jobs like a limb springing when it hits the ground or the tree that spins or simply falls the wrong way and those are objective dangers we accept. But mostly, knowing how to work safe and having good judgment makes an arborist safe.

With all that said, I think the job is ridiculously dangerous because I've never seen perfect judgement or mistake free work... plus, most of us have to hurry, which means more mistakes (I opened up my thumb today with a Silky, bled all over everything). Some days you're just better off lucky than good.


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## treemendous (Feb 26, 2007)

Logging is defininetly more dangerous. More objective hazards. Like being buried alive by tons of bark. 

We all know this is dangerous, and we tell our wives it isn't really, but do we all think that at every job? Maybe I like danger, but a lot of the time I think this job is fun, except(many things) for the sawdust in every orifice!

The most dangerous times (besides driving to or from jobs) have been when I cut corners a little. Definitely taking a calculated risk, but a risk nonetheless.

Technology and innovation are certainly improving the odds in our profession.


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## smokechase II (Feb 26, 2007)

*Tons of bark*

Treemendous.

Do you have any photos of the tons of bark thing?
Most guys not familiar with west coast old growth would be fairly impressed with that.
Thanks.
(A couple decades back I saw an old movie where two woods wise guys were very gingerly loosening the bark on a big fir snag and got out of the way before tons of bark came down. It seemed like it wouldn't stop. There was no way a person could survive that.)
I've seen a fair amount of bark come down dealing with dead trees and working on snags on fires. But I'm sure it’s nothing like you've seen.


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## Fish4Brains (Feb 26, 2007)

I am no Arborist however, an idiot could kill himself talking on the phone and that same idiot could kill you or I becouse he was doing it while driving. Sure while some jobs are more dangerous than others I think the real life saver is ones own brain and thier ability to keep that third eye on the other guy while doing thier own thing safely. Things are not safe by chance. I would bet that there are fry cooks "no offense" more likely to be killed at work than alot of skilled safe Arborists. To group the danger by occupation seems verry skewed to me. Danger is inherent in life. Treat it like its not and anything can kill you.
I must say though I would not have the kuhuna's
to face the dangers an Arborist, tree climber, logger 
needs to face day in and day out.....
Brian


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## Soul Assassin (Feb 26, 2007)

They base those stats on percentage of people hurt in the industry as a whole, commercial fishing has a 100 percent accident rate, meaning everyone, sooner or later will suffer some sort of accident.

They consider "logging", number two, which we all know is quite different than being an arborist and still share alot in common. I consider logging dropping and skiding(sp?) of timber(among many other things)....which in my opinion would be right up there with commercial fishing, maybe 95 percent accident rate. So they are correct, as far as the insurance company stats........that's where they get them.

I believe commercial drivers are number three.

I took a hit right on my head this weekend skiing, thank god I was wearing a helmet, which I just purchased three weeks ago. I hit so hard it blew the goggles off my face and the lenses blew out. I was almost knocked out cold. Soooo, getting out of bed is dangerous.lol. Be safe.


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## Soul Assassin (Feb 26, 2007)

Just googled it, this is injury vs. mortality I quess.

New York (CNN/Money) - On December 3, 2002, a section of a felled tree struck and killed an 18-year-old logger. He was one of the last of 104 lumbermen to die in 2002, when timber cutters led the nation with the highest on-the-job mortality rate of any vocation. 

The mortality rate among lumbermen, 118 timber cutters per 100,000 workers, heads the list of the top 10 most dangerous jobs in America for 2002 put out by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and was more than 26 times that of the average U.S. worker. 


The fishing industry ran second with 71 fatalities per 100,000 workers, with drowning the most common cause of death. 

The crab fishery in Alaska is particularly perilous, according to University of Alaska economist Gunnar Knapp. "The environment in which the crabbing is done, in the Bering Sea, in winter, has to be some of the worst conditions on Earth. You're hundreds of miles from port, in stormy seas, with ice forming all over, sometimes so thick it capsizes the boat." 

Fishermen also sustain injuries from working with heavy gear and mighty machinery. Alaskan crabbers use huge cages as traps. "Imagine," say Knapp, "steel lobster pots, only ten times the size, hundreds of pounds apiece." 

No wonder the Alaskan shellfish industry averaged 400 fatalities per 100,000 workers during the 1990s.


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## (WLL) (Mar 18, 2007)

*great post*



Fish4Brains said:


> I am no Arborist however, an idiot could kill himself talking on the phone and that same idiot could kill you or I becouse he was doing it while driving. Sure while some jobs are more dangerous than others I think the real life saver is ones own brain and thier ability to keep that third eye on the other guy while doing thier own thing safely. Things are not safe by chance. I would bet that there are fry cooks "no offense" more likely to be killed at work than alot of skilled safe Arborists. To group the danger by occupation seems verry skewed to me. Danger is inherent in life. Treat it like its not and anything can kill you.
> I must say though I would not have the kuhuna's
> to face the dangers an Arborist, tree climber, logger
> needs to face day in and day out.....
> Brian



nicely said


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## ben14826 (Mar 18, 2007)

hey soulassasin: where were farmers on labor bureaus list?


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## Ed Roland (Mar 23, 2007)

treemendous said:


> The most dangerous times (besides driving to or from jobs) have been when I cut corners a little. Definitely taking a calculated risk, but a risk nonetheless.



yes sir!


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