# Question about value of black walnut wood.



## cwatkin (Dec 5, 2011)

I recently purchased 31.5 acres of property with about 1/3 open pasture and 2/3 timber. The timber is moslty a mixture of hardwoods and I have been cutting damaged or dead but not rotten trees for firewood. I recently cut up a black walnut and was told that I probably destroyed some very valuable wood by turning it into firewood.

The black walnut was a blowdown where a creek had undercut the rootwad and fallen on a neighbor's fence. Since the owner of that land lives around 100 miles away, he has a few of the neighbors take care of the place in exchange for the hay, wood, etc. The walnut was still attached at the roots and was still alive and not rotten at all. I cut it with my 16 inch Stihl MS-250 chainsaw and the diameter was just barely smaller than the cutting length of the bar at the base of the tree. The trunk was at least 10 inches are so in diameter and straight for at least 16-20 feet or so. There were very few knotholes and branches along the lower portion of this tree and the wood was beautiful Did I make a mistake cutting this into 12-16 inch lengths for firewood?

I have been told by some that no one will buy an individual tree and that they need at least a flatbed semi trailers worth of wood to make it worth their while. I have also been told that any 8 foot log 8-10 inches or larger in diameter is worth good money if you haul it to a sawmill yourself. Did I destroy something worthy of sale? If so, how much would a tree like this be worth? There are others like it on my property.

Unfortunately the deed is done with this tree but it was in a horrid location for access and I had to carry all the pieces out of the woods by hand. Getting the thing out intact probably would have further damaged/destroyed the neighbor's fence.

Thank you,

Conor


----------



## Dalmatian90 (Dec 5, 2011)

Don't worry about it.

You'd probably use up more gas trucking an 8' x 10" log around then you'd be paid for the board feet in it.

If there's a lot of walnut there, it does sound like the you might be sitting on some valuable timber.

But you'd need a forester to take a look and then find a buyer for the standing trees and then you'd know how much it's worth.

The other option is the forester might take a look and tell you the walnut isn't that valuable YET, but it's time to thin out competing trees and let the walnuts bulk up. 

I think you can have a MDC forester provide some free consulting for you: http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G5999

In Connecticut the State Foresters can give private landowners up to seven hours to walk the property and write up a basic management plan for free. That would let you know if it's worth hiring a private forester to manage a timber sale.


----------



## cwatkin (Dec 5, 2011)

That is kinda what I thought. I figured that one tree wouldn't be worth the time and fuel to sell. This, in addition to the fact that the tree was in a ravine over a fence I was trying not to damage more made me feel that firewood was the best option for this one. I am going to scope out the walnut trees myself before even talking with a state forester. I have noticed a few just wandering the property but wasn't really looking for them so there may be even more.

I just moved here and looking for walnut trees hasn't been my main priority. Getting firewood and doing some basic cleanup has been though as I didn't have enough seasoned wood to make it through the winter. This walnut was green and waterlogged (the roots were basically in the creek) so it will likely be next year before I can even think about burning it. I am focusing on standing deads and trees pushed over along a powerline to cut and stack for later in the winter. These have been down for about 2 years and most are luckily suspended off the ground and not rotten. Some are probably burnable now but I am stacking them for a little while until I burn through what I have.

Conor


----------



## CJ1 (Dec 5, 2011)

One of my faviorite sayings is "Grade burns better!!" CJ


----------



## tbow388 (Dec 5, 2011)

I always wonder about this. I have 1 black walnut that I believe is on its last year. It is around 24 to 30"s at the base and is SUPER tall and straight. I will probably just cut it for firewood if it doesnt produce leaves in the spring.


----------



## ryan_marine (Dec 5, 2011)

Around here walnut is selling for 1.25-1.50 per b/f on the landing for saw logs.

Ray


----------



## WadePatton (Dec 7, 2011)

they're buying 8 grades here plus the holy grail: 2.70-5.00 for veneer logs. Walnut is a whole different price list.

BUT until you've seen a few dozen logs go through the grading process it's not so easy to size up a log for value (any species). Easy to think of with 4S's, Sound, Size, Straight, Sterile. (had to dig for that last one). Sound means no dead wood, no hollows. Size means minimum length and diameter for grade, Straight means-like a roll of paper towes-no bow, no flare, no nuthin'. Sterile means no birdpeck, stains, nor anything that might hint at anything but straight-plain_grain from bark to bark.

anything less than that might make Prime and they're 2.50/2.20/2.00/1.80. Common is 1.35/1.00/0.65 Doyle.



tbow388 said:


> I always wonder about this. I have 1 black walnut that I believe is on its last year. It is around 24 to 30"s at the base and is SUPER tall and straight. I will probably just cut it for firewood if it doesnt produce leaves in the spring.



Contrast to Cherry which tops out at 1.15 and my best has only brought .90 as Prime A.

And then we split that. 

If you have a personal use for a single or few trees, find someone with a small band mill or cs mill and have them estimate your costs. WAY easier that way.


----------



## madhatte (Dec 11, 2011)

Fun fact: if you go to the oldest page in the Forestry and Logging forum, there is a thread asking this very same question. I say again as I did elsewhere -- I wish I had done my research ahead of time when I sold that walnut awhile back! I worked WAY harder than I needed to and while I learned a lot from the experience, I didn't make any money at it.

EDIT: OK, second-oldest page. It's been bumped since the last time I looked.


----------



## caddguy (Dec 14, 2011)

*walnut harvesting*

Here's my two cents worth....
Unless you really know your timber, don't cut standing timber expecting to get a wheel barrow full of money. Also, the trees do not have to be pristine trees such as stated in the "grading verbage" post previous to have valuable wood. Now with that said, there are a few caveats to be aware of:
In order to make the most money with the timber on your land, you should know how to fall the trees to get the maximum yield. You should also know which ones are good candidates to cut and when. If the tree is farely young, straight and 24 inches across, you may be falling a tree that has alot of sapwood which immediately decreases the value and unless you turn small pieces ie pens, you might as well have made a cord of firewood.
You also need to be able to mill the logs yourself, and know how to mill them for specific furniture applications ie: quatersawing pieces for making legs, or how to cut a burl for the best figure yield.
Some of the best Walnut I have ever seen was from blowdown that had been down or hung for 2 or 3 years. It's really a hit and miss sort of thing. Don't cut wood just to try and sell it though, you will more than likely be disappointed and have worked your ass of to do it.
There is alot more involved than cutting down some trees and hauling them through the woods for someone to buy.
Make some nice furniture outta the few that you can wrangle out yourself....that's where the self-worth, pride and money is!!


----------



## WadePatton (Dec 15, 2011)

i think you are referring to my post as verbiage. when you send a log to the mill expecting veneer grade and it brings prime A and you _can't_ find a flaw, _then_ you get real serious about learning grades. that was two weeks ago-when i went to the log yard to look at gradings instead of just cashing the check.

simplest thing is to sell it standing. brings less, but you can get multiple bids and don't have to do anything but play with the top/stump and cash the check. a local forester should be able to help you as well...it's their job.

my best cherry so far, 20" small end, butt cut, Prime A, brought 200 for three logs. i have another that may make 400 bucks. Walnut will easily double or triple that value, but i only get 1/2 the money as I don't own the dozier, loader, or truck that it takes to get 'em out. Buyers of standing single trees must also factor in for hidden flaws that might show when dropped/bucked. I'd think 30-40% of mill value would be a fair price. e.g. $400 for you while mill pays logger $1,000.

i emphasize the flaws because folks hear of a 5$ bf walnut (the log(shot) heard 'round the county) and start attaching that value to every walnut on the hill. it ain't so.


----------



## Beanhead III (Dec 19, 2011)

cwatkin said:


> Did I destroy something worthy of sale? If so, how much would a tree like this be worth? There are others like it on my property.



I live justa few stone throws from ya' to the south. I am in the Arkansas Ozarks and one of my first dead trees I cut into when I badly needed firewood one year was a long & straight dead Black Walnut that was laying in our northern ravine. All the bark and sap wood had rotted off of it. It was nothing but the heart wood laying across the ravine in mid air and it couldn't be identified until I cut into it. Unfortunately for me, I was more concerned with getting some good old dense firewood which burns extremely hot vs seasoned that still has sapwood & bark. After I cut all of it up into 36" with a 18" mid section precut, I was able to carry up 3 foot sections back to the house. That was when I realized what I had done and started kicking myeslf, thinking the same way you did.



WadePatton said:


> BUT until you've seen a few dozen logs go through the grading process it's not so easy to size up a log for value (any species).



WP is correct, a single log is not valuable at all. if it is down and across a fence, it is a hinderance and an eyesore more than it is a money maker. Basically the best thing you could have done was to cut it for firewood, nothing else. Especially since you said that you have others standing. Recently I heard that Walnut was bringing a better price in your area up there in Missouri, yet I haven't seen any rich Arkansans from taking any up there with these gas prices...lol. I like WP's next suggestion:



WadePatton said:


> If you have a personal use for a single or few trees, find someone with a small band mill or cs mill and have them estimate your costs. WAY easier that way.



You can find mobile sawmill owners who will come out and using their equipment, cut your timber on site. (Be sure to have quite a bit of logs on hand to lower the cost per linear board foot (LBF).) You will find these owners in the newspaper classified, Weekly Bargain magazines and other sources such as Craig's list.com for your area or even by word of mouth, just start asking. It is cheaper though if you take your logs to them, yet be careful as they may not cut it all up in front of you and you may end up a few board feet short! 

Myself, I found that the walnut that I found and cut up did provide me much needed heat that winter and was eventually worth cutting it up for firewood because it was necessary, yet it burned and popped badly (similar to 1 Generation seasoned Cherry) to where I could only burn it during the day time as the popping kept me up at night. I did save a few flat chunks (3" X 12" X 18-20" long) of it as I was splitting it to play with later on for my wood working projects. Since then, and 5 years ago, I have met a great friend who owns his own mill in Chester, AR and he cuts all my logs now, and I have another 7 BW logs sitting down there and waiting to be thown on the mill. Give it time like I did and you will eventually find yourself sitting on logs that have been timbered for lumber along with several dozen other logs stacked and waiting to be cut as well as you look back at your first BW and just smile and giggle about it going into firewood! 

bEAnS


----------

