# Basic climbing tips



## Beeboo (Aug 15, 2001)

Hello to all,
I am in need of some info, if possible.

I have a basic set-up--rope, caribeaners, harness, etc......

I am trying to trim the dead wood & hanging limbs on the tree's in my yard at home, but have not figured out the best way to climb the tree's that have no branches to use to climb.

I am interested in finding out what anyone would suggest, besides spiked shoes, to use for getting up the tree.

I have ran into a site that suggested a large rope with knots tied in it to climb the tree----how do you get the rope through the loop with the knots already tied in the rope??? or, How do you tie it in the tree with the knots already in the rope??

I tried it with a figure eight follow through knot, but could not get the rest of the rope through the loop with the knots in the rope. I am guessing that if I made the loop bigger, it would work, but I woud be interested in information from someone who has done it before.

Also, as a life line--I am planning on using climbing rope (arborist?) (bought it at a climbing store) with a caribeaner with a bachman knot around both ropes. Is this safe?? The guy at the store suggested it & I have tried it out with decent results--seems safe to me.

As you can see, I am new to this, have done trim jobs with no rope, but would rather be safe while working in the tree.

Any help\suggestions would be greatly appreciatted!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks in advance.


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 16, 2001)

Sounds like me a while back!, if you are in the tree service then youll understand what time and pain means, if not, hire a pro, ive been in this for a while and im am just now learning to climb, and im being trained. to go and try and figure it out for your self takes alot of time and can mean alot of pain, maybe even death, the rope you bought is probley a static line, this is not a tree rope, it has no tolerance for bark and heat. buy the time you go out and buy every thing you could have had somone come over and do it for the same price while your sitting inside and watching tv! by no means am i a pro at climbing, but i do know the cost and the skill it requires to do it safley. if you are in the bus, sub it out our find someone to show you the ropes! (pun intended) hope this helps


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 16, 2001)

Good Luck!


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## treeclimber165 (Aug 16, 2001)

I just checked, and Sherrill Arborist Supply has several good books available (link at top of this screen). Tree Climber's Companion ($15) and Ropes, Knots and Hitches ($12) are absolute minimum requirements. Anything by Shigo is good, but can be a tough read sometimes. Greenbean is right, though. Either hire a climber or go to work for a tree service so you can see with your own eyes how it is done. Compare what you see to what you read in the books. 
Also, climbing trees is only half of it. If you don't know what to do when you get up there, you don't need to go up. Modern Arboriculture by Shigo or Tree Maintenance 7th edition by P. Pyrone might be a good starting point. 
Good Luck!


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## treeman82 (Aug 16, 2001)

it sounds as though you may wish to call in a guy with a bucket truck.


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## Beeboo (Aug 16, 2001)

Ok--I want to start by saying, thank you to TREECLIMBER165 for the info provided.

As to the rest-----I figured this is what I was going to get as a reply. I do not have all day to sit here & type the experience I have had in a tree, but I am new to climbing tree's without many limbs--seems like everybody else is too.

So, when I get the response, hire a professional (which I knew was coming from people in the business)--it is not practical & the cost would be outrageous.

So, when you tell me to hire a prof.--I am assuming that you think I have a Money tree in my back yard that I can pick as much as I need to pay for the job.

I have heard the quote before about buying the equipment would be cheaper than hiring someone on other requests for info & this is DEAD WRONG!!!!!!!!!

Besides, I already have most of the equipment needed to do the job. 

I would advise anybody wanting to do the job themselves, not to listen to anybody that says it is cheaper to hire a professional---IT IS NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!


I thought I asked a simple question: How do you get up the tree without GAFFS?????????? Equipment used??

At least TREECLIMBER165---gave me some kind of info on the books I should read---I thank You!!! 

I can do it with the equipment that I have, but there has to be an easier way.

Anyway, I will wait for others to reply to my question.

Do not mean to take shots at anybody, but I am assuming, if you cannot answer the question, you must always use gaffs to climb, which causes more damage to the tree than you are fixing--or--you do not climb at all.

On top of that---a person wanting to do his own job, does not want to hear: "Hire a professional". Don't you think I have got quotes already? 

I am looking for people who would like to help with 1st hand information, not just voice their opinions.

Thank You.


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## Chain Gang (Aug 16, 2001)

Hi Beeboo,

Glad to see you stand up to the smartalecks. My guess is that you want to learn and that is why you wrote to this forum.

Treeclimber165's suggestion about Tree Climber's Companion book is the best thing to do. Read that book cover to cover. Then, you will know enough to ask more specific questions.

First, you'll probably need a throw bag and some slick line. I have used rock climbing ropes before. They aren't nearly as durable as arborist ropes but they work okay. The main thing is to use a rope that has dynamic stretch. Usually about 4% by length. Because it doesn't stretch enough, a static line will hurt you if you fall while on it.

If at all possible, get an arborist tree saddle. A rock climbing harness will work, but it is very inconvenient and uncomfortable.

If you are fit, you can climb fairly well using a Blake's hitch while climbing your rope by foot-locking. If the tree is short, you can use a Blake's hitch and climb by pulling with your hands and body thrusting. If the tree is tall, or, if you are not very fit, then you will want a pair of ascenders to climb with. 

You will want to have some sort of safety lanyard as a backup device and to allow you to re-direct your climbing line while in the tree.

You need to wear a hardhat, especially if there is dead wood in the tree. Eye protection is always a good idea. Never, ever work alone, no matter how good you are. For climbing,I like cotton gloves that have some rubber on the palms. Look on Sherrill's website to see all of this stuff.

Hopefully, you can do all of your trimming with a hand saw. Using a chain saw in a tree adds another set of safety issues to the already very hazardous job of tree climbing. 

It is usually safer to cut smaller pieces of wood than trying to bring down the whole large piece in one cut. Unless the area around the tree is fairly open, removing large pieces often requires rigging to safely lower the wood. This is another area that can really get you into trouble unless you AND your crew know what they are doing.

Try to always have a second rope in place as a backup in case the saw cuts your line or the limb that you line is over breaks, etc. 

Seriously, go read Tree Climber's Companion and come back with more questions. You now know enough to get yourself seriously into trouble. Please continue to learn so that you will be able to get yourself out of a jam, because, it will definitely happen fairly often, especially in the beginning.

Good Luck!


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 16, 2001)

please moderator i must reply!
1. i cost me about 1000.00 to buy the climbing equip i have( including a new saw)
2. I you already know why ask?
3. if your tree is gonna cost more than 1000.00 to have a pro trim it, then you should stay out of the tree or get another bid!
4. Average hopital bill for broken bones is about 1500.00
5. Average funeral is about 5000...

you get the point 
not trying to be smart...maybe i am! but i dont want to see any body get hurt. if you knew you were going to get this response why post?


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## lhampton (Aug 16, 2001)

Hi Beebo, 

I've been lurking for awhile, I had to join up so that I could reply to your post.

I would try to persuade you not to try to do the work yourself, if I thought I'd have any chance of success.

I pretty much taught myself to climb with rope and saddle so I think I have a fair idea of what your up against. Beg, borrow, or buy what ever book, video, or manual you can and study. Find someone who is experienced and watch them, talk with them. See if they can help teach you. You have the time, that tree isn't going anywhere. This is what I did. I can tell you from experience, when you get up in a tree and your only security is a half inch rope and lanyard, you better know what your doing with it.

If you take your time and learn the right/safe way now, it will be a positive experience for you. If you go out half cocked, you may not come back.

Practice in a small tree until you are familiar and confident in your performance. Pay attention to detail. The best, most important thing I can tell you; don't second guess yourself. If something feels wrong, if you get a funny feeling in your belly, stop and re-evaluate the situation. 

Best of luck to you.

lhampton


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## Beeboo (Aug 16, 2001)

Chain Gang & L. Hampton---Thank You for your posts.
The info provided will be very helpful.

I will be placing an order for the The Tree Climber's Companion book A.S.A.P + I am in the process of trying to find a professional climber in my area to watch & learn.

I have looked at many sites today--pretty much all day long, trying to study as much as possible.

I stilll cannot figure out the following: double line asending with a Blake's hitch using footlocking--I understand how to footlock.

The question that I need answered is as follows: do you tie the blake's hitch into\around both ropes? or one?

I figure I am missing something here, if you tie onto one rope only, you will fall on your rear. The only other option would be to tie the other end to the harness?

Also, I have a set-up for a Bachman knot used with a caribeaner as an asender wrapped around both ropes---how does this differ from the Blake's Hitch?

I thank both of you for your help & concern.

Now---on to the Jacka** that persists to view his opinion where it is not wanted.

You obviously cannot read---I have 9 tree's to work on--2 to drop, 7 to trim--some bigger than others.

As far as you spending a G on your climbing equipment with saw----good for you. I already had the saw from all the dead wood in my yard needing to be cut up + the work I already did---saw price is not included.

As far as the hospital\funeral cost---I have insurance--will not cost me a DIME!

As far as why did I post: because I knew someone out there would help, but I knew some smartasses were going to tell me to hire a prof. because they think everybody is dumb & cannot do the job themselves.

Last count, I have 14 tree's that need to be maintained--seems like constantly, so the charge is a one time fee. What do I do next year when I need more trimming--Hire another prof.

By the time I am done paying for the work to get done (as long as I am in this house), I could buy 3 climbing set-ups.

Besides, I have relatives that need some work done for them.
So, the time spent learning will more than be worth the effort & cost incurred in the long run. I am sure they will be happy to pay me back for the equipment to do the job.

Look at it this way---at least I am asking, shows that I am worried about safety, or I would just go to work.

I do have an idea of how much danger will be involved with this job & therefore the need for help, but you are just frustrating me at the current time.

So, if you cannot help, go bother someone else.



Thank You to those that are helping & any further assistance would be greatly appreciatted in the future.


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 17, 2001)

well im sorry i botherd you, ok you want a tip,
the blake goes on the rope side not connected to you, you should get a split tail to tie it with. it works very well. make sure you leave enough remove after your blake to tie a saftey knot. this will prevent to friction hitch from comong apart. this is what i use, and i like it, however im sure some of they other guys have different ways that work as well, if not better


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## treeman82 (Aug 17, 2001)

the guy that does my small pruning for me he footlocks with a prusick loop. no blake hitch, prusik loop. when he gets up there he ties in with the blake. you will need a throw ball for this with lets say 150 feet of slick line. it takes some practice to get the line up there 75 feet, or 60 feet into the crotch you want it in. then its just a matter of getting up there by footlocking. good luck and i hope you dont wind up getting hurt.


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## Toddppm (Aug 17, 2001)

Don't take it so personally , these people are trying to look out for you:angel: 
I wouldn't recommend using a blakes hitch to footlock, supposed to use a prusik around both lines ascending(never descending) . You can use a Blakes to ascend if you're body thrusting. Best bet is to read The tree climber s companion 10 times and even bring it up the tree if you have to(something to read when you get tired ) If you don't get your knots right you'll wish you could bounce like this guy


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## rborist1 (Aug 17, 2001)

:Eye:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 17, 2001)

Wow, talk about stiring up a hornets nest!

I gotta agree with the rest, it is a risky biz we are in.

Doing a footlock off a blakes or such is very risky if you dont have a backup. many of the SRT climbers now are using double ascenders. One for ascention one for self belay. DRT and a prussick cord can send one burning to the ground. That is why all TCC climbers are on secodary belay!


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## Sudo Tsuga (Aug 17, 2001)

If you do get a throw ball be sure and check your slick line mine had a melted splice about 50' from the throw ball and is still in the tree and that was last month. Get safty blue hi vee climbing line, with a soft splice and a split tail. But I agree with every one else here and would advise seeking profesional training, assistance before you enter the tree.

BTW: dont forget your saw!!! ha ha ha


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 17, 2001)

An EXPERT is a man who has made ALL the mistakes which CAN be made in a very narrow field.

Niels Henrik David Bohr


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## Treebeard (Aug 18, 2001)

If you have a large number of trees to maintain you can probably do most reasonable work as an owner never leaving the ground. Buy an orchard ladder & a decent pole saw. With the 20' orchard ladder & 20' reach extending Hayauchi pole saw I use I can do limbs 30'-40' up & stay on the ladder. Even if you end up in the tree, secured at a safe point a good polesaw will minimize your risks by dancing too high & far out on limbs. The books are good, videos are better to see knots, etc, but hands-on is best. ArborMaster training has 2 day sessions on safe climbing, knots, etc., & training beats hospital bills. Even a basic rockclimbing course, especially the rapelling part, will help if you need cheap hands-on work to build confidence & skill. Most colleges have these as non-credit weekend course for $50 & up.


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## treetrunk (Aug 19, 2001)

I think my reply to this post may be a bit belated, but this seems to be quite a sensitive subject for some, including myself. I respect you for wanting to care for own trees, and all the best of luck to you, I`m sure you`ve heard more than enough of how dangerous climbling is. But I don`t think just reading the Tree Climbers companion is going to turn you into an arborist, the only thing that can do that is training, experience and dedication, which also means more time than just reading a book and wearing second hand gear.


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## Tom Dunlap (Aug 19, 2001)

This has been an interesting thread to read through. You asked a good question and after reading your follow ups too it seems to me that you have a good head on your shoulders. You seem more open minded than a few seasoned, full time climbers that I have talked to.

There are a lot of things that can be learned from books and also a person can be self-taught and quite compitent. With caution, and good books, I believe that a person could learn to get up and down trees safely. The Companion is the best book going for training. One venue that has not been mentioned are the ISA training videos. there is a lot of good informatino on those videos. The best part is that the skills are illustrated and narrated. Pause and rewind are good ways to learn. Taking some time to find an arborist to shadow or work under would be another excellent technique. The problem is finding someone who is worth learning from. You might not know enough now to be able to establish their credibility. If you want a referance to someone in your area, write to me off the forum. I would bet I could connect you with a good arbo nearby.

When you do go off the ground, leave the chainsaw on the ground. Get a good tri-cut blade handsaw. Never work alone. If you do any work on someone else's property you should consider purchasing liability insurance even if you are not being paid for the work. Learn "Low and Slow". Above all, when you are considering the risk of climbing trees there are two words that you should repeat: Widow and Orphan. Even if you don't have a wife and kids who depend on you, you do have a social and blood family that you belong to and you have an obligation to them to work as safely as possible.

Strong limbs and snug ropes!

Tom


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## Deere John (Aug 20, 2001)

After reading this thread, I want to pat Treeclimber on the back. The last time we had a back-and-forth row here, with the LoneStarRanger or someone like that, Brian got beat up pretty good for suggesting that our industry is ever so slightly more complicated than the average bystander can appreciate. He's right, ofcourse, as shown above by others too. 

Books are great, but they can not replace training, experience and a respect of the fact that you're a long time dead!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 20, 2001)

Then we read other threads and see what type of training is given in companies that do not have the same concern that we have.

(Man I hear Tom's voice when I read his posts!)

I learned to climb on my own. Learned some knots from other people, since I started by free climbing (scary thought now) when I was not gaffing.

I learned a lot of knots from books too.

I just flinch when someone sais "Try footlocking on a prussik."


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## Beeboo (Aug 25, 2001)

Hello to all--I am back--Sorry for the delay in posting.

Would like to start by saying, "THANK YOU" to all of you with the many idea's & your concern for my well being.
The topics discussed in your posts will help me greatly.

I could use some suggestions on what anyone would suggest to get up the tree???????

I have been told footlocking w\prusik's--etc.........would like to get an overall consensus of what everyone would suggest as the best\easiest way to climb???

As far as getting down, what would you suggest??

Any other comments, would be helpful also, but Please--stop the comments on the danger involved---I have heard that many times & understand the danger involved.

I am looking for idea's---not warning's.

Since my last post, I have ordered the Tree climber's companion book, waiting for arrival.
Plus, I have dropped\felled 1 tree & trimmed 2 other's-----they were the easier one's to do. I dropped one right into the street (ha-ha)--blocked off traffic with my car.

I still have the tough one's to get done---so, any help would be greatly appreciatted.

Here is what I plan to do---secure a safety line about 3\4 of the way up the tree from the ground--climb the tree, any way possible, do the trim work---get out of the tree.

I need help with the climbing & getting down part.

Once again, I thank you for any comments pertaining to the questions asked in advance.

Thank You,
Mike


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## Beeboo (Aug 25, 2001)

ok---I have more to add-------rborist1-----I do not know where you got the info that I bought used equipment, but as far as I can read, it was not from me.

As far as considering myself an arborist, those are your words, not mine. I am not trying to become an arborist.

SO, DELIGHT ME WITH YOUR INTELLIGENCE ON HOW I AM "DISCREDITING THE INDUSTRY"??????????


Maybe you should give it a rest!!


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## treeclimber165 (Aug 25, 2001)

Getting up the trees depends on how high the first limbs are and spacing between the limbs. Typically, a climber can use a ladder to get to the first limbs. If they are too high, then you use a throw bag to set your rope on at least the second limb up. Using either the footlock on a prussick, or body thrust with a Blakes hitch, you hoist yourself up till you can step on the first limb. Then it's just freeclimbing (with your lanyard secured, use a second lanyard to clip in above a limb before unhooking the first lanyard below it). If the next limb is too high for you to reach, toss your rope over the SECOND limb up then tie in and hoist yourself up.
Most importantly, ALWAYS keep yourself tied or clipped in! Never untie a lifeline or unclip a lanyard untill you have another secured.

Coming down is just rapelling down on your Blakes hitch. 

Please don't be too hard on the guys who have done this for a living for many years. It takes a rather independant, self-reliant person to climb trees for a living. And as such, most of us are capable of being rather difficult at times. I know I can be a total ******* on a job at times because I can see ahead to problems that the other guys don't even consider. I tend to get rather impatient with groundmen who don't know what is going to happen next. Without on-the-job experience, and without SEEING hundreds of situations and how each is handled safely, there is no way to know how to proceed. 
Anyways, I hope you don't hurt or kill yourself. :angel:


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 26, 2001)

Beboo, 
for some reason, i really think that you are trying to get a rise out of us. if you are not, why dont you take the constructive critisism that you are getting instesd of jumping on the defensive.
We do have a reason to be concerned, if you get hurt doing tree work, that info goes into a national data base. The people who read it control somthing very important to us........INSURANCE RATES! The more that get hurt the higher the rates. So you see, what you do does in fact affect us.


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 26, 2001)

Treeclimber165 hit the nail on the head.Seeing problem before they happen only comes experience.Most of the time the climber is boss man,keeping the ever watchfull eye on what is going on down below.I've seen guys do this work for years and still just stand there and look.What they are looking at I just don't know.


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## John Paul McMillin (Aug 26, 2001)

i havent responded yet to beeboo , but know i have heard enough . The arborist on this site are very concerned with safety. You cannot teach someone how to climb a tree on this site . You need to find a climber and have him or her show you in person! You can learn the basics , but there are alot of other things to know also. Are you good with a chainsaw or a handsaw? Anyway man get someone to show and train you in person ok. We do not want you to get hurt or hurt someone else! Dont be so critical about us arborist . That is already a bad attitude to have when in a tree. Get some personal training and good luck > john


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## treeman82 (Aug 26, 2001)

Well, all I have to say is this. If you cant get your line up there I shall assume that your first crotch is up over 40 or 50 feet. A fall from 30 feet will injure you to say the least. A fall from 50 or more, dont bother to call the ambulance. There is a special form of doctor they shall be calling. I believe they are called morticians? If you had to crash a tree across your road, and tie up traffic for a good amount of time, you should not be getting involved with technical tree work. Pretty much any of us on here would have pieced it out, or put a come along on it to pull it off the road. To crash stuff onto the road, and stop traffic, I am pretty sure you need a permit for that or something.


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## rborist1 (Aug 26, 2001)

:Eye:


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## Treeman14 (Aug 27, 2001)

Good one, Craig.

Hey, you know, I've got this uncle who needs surgery. Gall bladder or appendix or something. Anyway, he can't afford it and he has no insurance, so I figured I would give it a go. I've already got some really sharp knives and dust masks and clean towels and stuff. And I've gutted deer and cleaned fish before. I've been practicing on stray cats in the neighborhood and I'm pretty good. Well, you know, they probably weren't very healthy to start with, so I don't think they ALL died because of me. Anyway, do you think I should get a book or something or maybe somebody could e-mail me a diagram showing all the body parts, just in case?

Oh, duh... Stupid me. I should be on surgeonsite.com.


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## rborist1 (Aug 27, 2001)

*Good Luck...........*

:Eye:


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## nositting (Aug 27, 2001)

wow, quite the response! good advice as well. glad you're getting some education from tree climbers companion. it's loaded!

i can see how some of the posts may come across as harsh, but as others have alluded to, they're only looking out for your safety.

i may be shunned for my thoughts, but i don't mind... i think it's possible to do your own work IN SOME SITUATIONS and can be a great way to learn, however starting slow and low CAN'T be emphasized enough. get familiar with your equipment and think twice before every move. a lot of times, guys get hurt because they're too comforatable with whatever it is they're doing and they don't think. accidents happen in a fraction of a second. i work part time as a physical therapist and spent some time in a rehab hospital working with spinal cord patients. although none of them were arborists, most of them were injured for silly reasons.

i like using an ascender with a footloop and a cammed one way pulley on the saddle to get into the tree. start on a really low crotch - even if it's so low you feel silly. make sure whatever limb/crotch you're using is live and strong and use a buddy on a safety line around a different limb with some sort of friction device at the bottom so he can tie you off or lower if need be. know where your lines are. this is kind of an odd/slow method, and no profesional or amateur does it this way, but it works for me. pay attention to 3 dimensional physics - things won't always fall as you figured. dynamic lines, in theory, may help if you fall a couple feet, but they're REALLY awkward when ascending or descending a larger distance. tried it and hated it.

i guess the bottom line is (forgive me for being redundant), EDUCATE yourself as much as you can by various means and start SLOW and LOW. take your time learning. take your time with your trees - a couple months? year(s)? and last, RECOGNIZE YOUR LIMITS. better to walk away from a job/limb than have it swing and hit you if you have any hesitations. do i get flamed now?


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## georgia (Aug 28, 2001)

Treeman 14< 

That reply was funny as SH*T!


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## sonny (Aug 28, 2001)

georgia...
What else would expect, from someone that fishes WITH gators


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## rborist1 (Aug 28, 2001)

:Eye:


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## WillClimb (Aug 29, 2001)

*BeeBoo*

BeeBoo -
When you said that there are no 'usable' limbs for climbing, did you mean that they're too small? Or are they too high up to get the rope there? Usually, if they're too small you can just use a ladder to get to them or try hanging from a nearby, taller tree, that has usable branches. There's also the crotchsaver device (ropesaver) which can be wrapped around the trunk of a tree and used as a false crotch.

And you guys out there with the smart mouths....dont forget you started somewhere too!! You keep saying that BeeBoo should learn from professionals and work for them first which is fine. Apparently though, whomever you worked for taught you some pretty bad manners. Some of you need to take some time off from climbing and learn how to spell! Tree climbing and showing your butt dont go hand-in-hand by the way.

Tree Climber's Companion, I have to agree, is an awesome book! I've read it from cover to cover a few times and there's a lot of good climbing information. If you're looking for trimming information though, this is not your book.

Later - 
Will


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## WillClimb (Aug 29, 2001)

OK, I read some more of the previous posts and I have to say now that after I read the "dropping the tree in the road" event, maybe BeeBoo needs a little ragging.
Somehow I missed these posts on my first read-through.

BeeBoo, if a tree needs to be removed you can drop it, piece-by-piece, where it stands, by cutting it into logs (blocking it off) and either pushing them or roping them to the ground. This is how arborists avoid killing shrubs, flowers, dogs, people, or causing damage to homes or cars passing by for that matter. You will want to wear spikes when doing this.

Seeing the intensity that this group has for their profession, you may want to think about what you're going to write before posting it. Just a suggestion.


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## WillClimb (Aug 29, 2001)

*NoSitting*

NoSitting -

My brother-in-law (who is a professional arborist) taught me the basics of climbing and he mentioned to me one time that you don't ever want to sit in a tree during a climb. I'm assuming your username has something to do with this but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, do you or anyone else out there have a good explanation why you shouldn't sit in a tree?
I'm probably showing my inexperience here but I find myself doing it (sitting) from time to time and haven't had any bad repercussions.

Thanks - 
Will


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## treeclimber165 (Aug 29, 2001)

Hey Will, welcome to ArboristSite.
Just my 2 cents, but I would guess that the 'no sitting' thing has to do with having a good solid 3 point contact with the tree BEFORE making any cuts. SOLID points of contact would be lifelines, lanyards, feet, etc. If you are sitting on your arse and crank a saw, you could get knocked off if something unexpected happens. (kickback, limb popping off when 1/2 way cut, etc.) In my early days of climbing, I learned quickly not to 'shiny hiney' out on a long horozontal limb to make a cut. The trick is to get a good high tie-off for your lifeline BEFORE attempting to go out a limb so that you can be in a safe working position once you get out there. Leaning back against your lifeline, lanyard secured around the limb, feet (or sometimes knees) securely placed where you won't slip.

I have sat down, even laid down while in a tree taking a break.


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## nositting (Aug 29, 2001)

Treeclimber165 and WillClimb,

i used to coach gymnastics and martial arts. my rule was that nobody was allowed to sit. afterwards, i got my masters in physical therapy and although i allowed my patients to sit and rest, i still stuck to the idea that a good work out was good for the soul.


in reference to WillClimb's posts re: BeeBoo...
dropping trees in the road - bad idea
remembering where we started - good idea


(in the martial arts, after one receives their black belt, the next belt is often a black belt with a white stripe to serve as a reminder of ones starting point)


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## georgia (Aug 29, 2001)

Hey Willclimb!

I went to THe Citadel in Chucktown. How long you been there and who do you work with? You can email me if you want.

I live in Macon , GA now.

Steve


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## monkeypuzzle (Aug 29, 2001)

The blocking out of any tree is only as good as your cut.Make a bad one and the block bounces into or onto what?Lets say the butt of a nearby tree takes a good lick from the mis-guided block.Watch out for the house also.I've seen blocks hit just right on another block(ground) and ricochet way over yonder.Not good.A good face cut will take time.Some never get it,like my dad.One screw-up is all it takes guys and your ass is messed up bad. Funny about the no sitting in the trees thing,I do it all the time


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## WillClimb (Aug 30, 2001)

*Georgia*

Georgia - 
Yeah man, I know a lot of Citadel grads. I work for a computer software company called Blackbaud (i'll explain the name if anyone wants) and we make software for non-profit orgs. I do technical support right now but am getting ready to move to our Conversions department where I'll be doing more programming type stuff. (I know everybody's wondering what the hell I'm doing on this site but I just cant get enough of the climbing!) 

As a matter of fact, there are a good many Citadel grads (all males by the way) that work here. When did you graduate? I've been in Charleston since I was 5 and moved here from Greensboro NC where I still go visit family and Sherill Arborist Supply (I spend more time there than with the family 

All right, back to trees!

No sitting replys - Pretty good stuff but nothing really new to me. The only time I ever sit is when taking a break or waiting for a groundsman to attach something to the rope....or smoking....yeah I know, I shouldn't be doing that.

Hey, when you guys are limbwalking, do you find that boots with good grip really help? I've been wearing my New Balance tennis shoes because the only boots I have right now have no grip! Seems like if I'm up high, close to my tie-in, I'm having a little trouble with balance. I know I could do a redirect on a higher limb but sometimes there aren't any. No problem with the lower limbs though. Do you go out backwards, sideways, or frontwards?

Later - Will


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## Sudo Tsuga (Aug 31, 2001)

i sit in the tree during breaks. But what I realy enjoy is, after finishing the job, to hang upside down for a few minutes it seems to make my back feel good. any body else do this??


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## Jen (Aug 31, 2001)

*Sitting*

I dunno - I've sat in a tree (while the groundsmen were on break, and left me there), I even had a smoke in the tree, (I know that's bad too), the chainsaw pants I have from Safety Landry have this awesome side leg pocket - perfect for those (cigarettes)

and yes - even hung upsidedown to make my back feel better!

You gotta have a little fun up the tree every once in awhile....

I know everyone says start low and slow - and I agree but... a lot of companies are about the bottom line - they want you up, work done and down asap. (Which I know is not safe) You take it low and slow - and they want to fire your ass! Maybe its the companies up here - but we were warned about that even in school. Any comments?....... I don't even want to touch on the gender issue.......

Jen


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## WillClimb (Aug 31, 2001)

*Sitting*

Hey Jen!

My wife's name is Jen too. She wont go up a tree yet though.
I know what you mean about the smokes. If I put them in my pocket, my saddle has pretty much crushed them by the time I'm up in the tree. You guys will probably rag me about this (just like my brother-in-law has) but I found a small, old blue canvas camera case that I hook to my saddle and I use it to carry up my smokes or sometimes a cell phone. My brother-in-law calls it my purse 

As for hanging upside down I do it all the time. It definitely relieves the back pain you can get from climbing. It can make your abs hurt good too. Sometimes I'll do some vertical sit-ups while in the canopy.


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## treeclimber165 (Aug 31, 2001)

Two important things a good groundman won't learn from any book is how to tie a cup of water on the lifeline so the water doesn't spill, and how to tie a lit cigarette on the line without breaking it! My first boss taught me both and they are 2 of the first things I teach every new groundman! 
I could have used that 'purse' idea a few times for the cell phone. I've done a couple of crane removals over houses where I carried my Nextel phone with me and used the 2-way feature to talk with the crane operator. Too far away to see each other. It kept getting in my way and I almost dropped it a couple times. The clip kept sliding off my climbing belt.


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## WillClimb (Aug 31, 2001)

So what kind of knot do you use for the cup of water? I've got the 'smoke on the rope' down pat....just dont forget that it's there or you might be cutting out a section of that rope....or buying a new one

I've been using the butterfly knot shown in Sherrill's latest catalogue for most midline rope clips lately. I like it. I dont think it will work for the cup of water though.


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## Jen (Aug 31, 2001)

A purse?..... - well you do what you gotta do I suppose. But hey I've sent my groundsmen looking for my hair elastics, when they've fallen out......

The funniest thing so far that has been sent up to me was buttered toast - up the line. It was middle of winter (and a couple feet of snow) and a bunch of the guys got hungry - one went to the cafe, and brought us all back breakfast. None of us wanted to come down - so he sent it up to us!

But if you have a suggestion as to which knot should be used to send coffee up the tree (without spilling) - I'm all ears!


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## rborist1 (Aug 31, 2001)

:Eye:


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## Kevin (Aug 31, 2001)

Jen;
I`m interested in where you got formal training for climbing in Ontario.
I called out to Arbor Masters in Alberta to get some info and ended up with a taped message which wasn`t much help.
They have a course in Toronto but I don`t know where.
There`s nothing up here in the north, one mountain climbing business but the guy couldn`t be bothered to return my call.
It`s little wonder why people attempt to train themselves!


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## treeclimber165 (Aug 31, 2001)

*sending a cup up a rope*

I have found the big insulated cups from 7-eleven are the easiest to send up a rope. It's almost too simple, but that's good for easily confused groundmen. Grab a loop of the rope, kinda like you are going to tie on a saw. Stick the loop of rope through the handle on the cup and pass the top part of the loop over the top of the cup. That's it, except to make sure the opening on the lid is turned back torwards the handle. The cup should hang at just a slight angle and you barely lose a drop. 
Sometimes the simplest things in life are the most satisfying. :angel:


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## rborist1 (Aug 31, 2001)

:Eye:


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## WillClimb (Aug 31, 2001)

Craig -

You're right.....I'm shuttin' up.
See y'all on another thread.  

Oh, by the way, treeclimber165, I like it.


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## Beeboo (Oct 21, 2001)

*I'm back for more*

ok--I want to start by adding to the people who seem to want to help & understand the problem-----THANK YOU again to the following people:

willclimb & no sitting.

I appreciatte your help & look forward to more, if possible.

Would like to add more, but I have some comments to the others that I would like to get too (not nice).

I will have more questions soon, I have read the "TREE CLIMBERS COMPANION" & have a couple more questions to ask, but after I rip a couple people's ass.

Hope to talk more to you soon.


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## Beeboo (Oct 21, 2001)

*real question about climbing*

ok--I have read, "THE TREE CLIMBERS COMPANION" about 5 times from cover to cover & have the following questions.

I HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP, instead of running off at the mouth about stuff that does not pertain to the issue's, as follows:

OK----HERE GOES.

I plan to use the traditional climbing system while body thrusting & walking up the side of the tree to get started, where there are no branches away from the trunk strong enough to use.

QUESTION: Can I really reply on the blake's hitch to function properly?

Also, Where can I buy a leather rope saver, the kind the rope slides through---not a false crotch.

I have noticed comments about footlocking with a prusik's, as not to be the way to footlock.

Question #2: 
When using a double line, what Knot would be the right choice to use, when footlocking?

The book says Prusik--or--Klemheist Knot.

Question:
What are the dangers involved with these knots??

Any help would be appreceiatted.
Thank You


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## John Paul McMillin (Oct 21, 2001)

I use the blake hitch exclusively. I like it better than the traditional hitch because it doesnt creep out on the rope . Just do not descend real fast with it because it has alot of friction that could burn your rope. What kind of rope are you using Beeboo. You can buy cambium savers at any arborist supply store. Like American Arborist or Sherrills. I would suggest gettting a steel core flipline with an ascender attached to use as your lanyard. when ever making a cut with your chainsaw, tie in with your flipline also , so you are tied in two ways. John


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## treeclimber165 (Oct 21, 2001)

From all of Beeboo's posts today, I must assume he already knows everything about all the dangers involved.  Therefore I'm not going to check on updates to this thread anymore. I'd hate to say the wrong thing and get my ASS reamed as he has done to so many here.


(I remember years ago, back when I knew everything too!)


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## Treeman14 (Oct 21, 2001)

Beeboo,
I certainly admire your persistence. Since you are determined to do this, I suggest you get some of the videos available from ISA. 888-ISA-TREE or www.isa-arbor.com.
Set #V1523 is a six-video set plus workbooks entitled Climbing Techniques. It is part of the Arbor Master Training program and an excellent source for detailed instruction on climbing. The six titles are; Introduction to Belay: Equipment and Techniques, Introduction to Climbing Techniques and Equipment, Introduction to Secured Footlock: Equipment and Techniques, Climbing Knots and Hitches, Introduction to Ropes: Care, Construction, and Limitations, and Introduction to Throwline: Equipment and Techniques. This should cover all the basics you need to know. Member price is $120. These videos are also available individually for $24. Good luck to you.

By the way, please forgive the sarcasm of my previous posts. I've been told my sense of humor is a bit flawed, to say the least. I apologize for trying to get a laugh at your expense.


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## Darin (Oct 22, 2001)

*deleted posts*

Well, Beeboo kept me busy deleting posts. Thanks to those that reported the posts. Beeboo, if you didnt like stuff that didnt pertain to the posts please let them know.....politely. If you are asking for info, some might have it some might not. All the guys that answered you in my mind are very knowledgable. Many that read your rudeness might not have answered you knowing how to help you. I personally would have been one of them. People enjoy arboristsite, because they like to joke around. I personally do joke around a lot myself. Personalities, show through. If you cant behave we might have to let you go.


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## Beeboo (Oct 22, 2001)

*Darin----Moderator*

Well, I can see that this is a very touchy page.
As far as I am concerned, there was only 1 post that should have been deleted, but you are the moderator. So, do as you please.

As far as the help that I have received. The one's that have tried, did help alot, but the others that just want to play games & put there 2 cents (sense) in were it is not wanted, are down right rude!

As far as being reported, I really do not care because it was probably the whiny little babies that do not know anything about being an arborist & just want to run off at the mouth.

You know, there are times for joking around & there are times to just plain shut your trap!

I figure that someone who is asking for help, can do without the jabs from people who should know what they are doing.

In your opinion, they know what they are doing, but they have yet to prove any knowledge to me---except ignorance.

So, if you want to disband me, let me go--whatever. Do what you want because as of now, I can do without the criticism from people that are no help whatsoever.


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## Beeboo (Oct 22, 2001)

*Treeman14 & John Paul McMillin*

I thank both of you for your posts.

Treeclimber14----I will check into ordering the full set of books available through the info that you posted---Thank You.
Also, opology accepted & I know I should get a sense of humor, but I looked at it as another jab at me trying to do my own work---Sorry. God Bless America.


John Paul McMillin----Glad to see that you are willing to help a begginer---I thank you.

I am planning to use a static line (I know--not good), but I plan to descend using the figure 8 device, not the knot itself because I am aware of the burning up the rope danger. I figure I would rather use a devise made to do a specific manuever than a knot that could fail at anytime.

Also, I do not plan to leave too much slack in my life line---So, how would one fall from more than 10 feet, if the friction hitch performs properly??

I thank all those that are willing to help.
Sincerely,
Mike


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## Beeboo (Oct 22, 2001)

*Treeclimber165 & all others*

I will not be replying to anyone that does not want to help, in the future.

So, make all the comments you want because I am now in the ignoring phase---Since, I have been notified by the moderator that my return comments are not welcome.

So, if I offended anyone here----Sorry.

Even though I feel some of the comments that were made towards me deserved a harsh response---I can forgive & forget.

All I would like to add, is as follows.
At some time in your life, you did not know anything about being an Arborist. This is where I am & would like to get some help.

I thought this would be a place where that could happen, but maybe I am wrong.

So, once again, I would appreciatte HELP! (not pokes at me from the peanut gallery).

Thank you to all!!!


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## treeclimber165 (Oct 22, 2001)

Don't let the door hit ya in the ass! I tried to be helpful (look at all of my earlier posts on this thread), but all you could see was criticism. Funny no one else saw it. Maybe the problem is your perception!


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## Toddppm (Oct 22, 2001)

*Re: Treeclimber165 & all others*



> _Originally posted by Beeboo _
> *I will not be replying to anyone that does not want to help, in the future.
> 
> *


Be gone


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## monkeypuzzle (Oct 22, 2001)

Maldicion,Beeboo que usted suena como un turd verdadero.


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## Darin (Oct 22, 2001)

Guys, I guess I dont really understand what all the fuss is about. Everyone is in here to learn but also have a good time. Beeboo, if you are thinking its rude to joke around, I guess we are sorry. One main characteristic of climbing is you have to be loose, and cant get raddle real easy. So if a few words are going to make you edgy, climbing isnt for you in the first place. This forum is free to use and has tons of info on it. Some, yes, may be from the peanut gallery, but if you dont make learning fun, it really isnt interesting to me. I as a moderator cannot have this stuff going on in here. If we cant take jokes or critisicm somebody has to go. It really brings the quality of this site [email protected] expense. If you think you are a know-it-all there is no place here for you. There is always something to learn. I am glad you are ignoring any other comments Beeboo, unless they are what you are looking for.


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## WillClimb (Oct 24, 2001)

Well, I have to call this one like I see it.
1) Beeboo asks for some help.
2) People notice he has no experience.
3) Replies are made stressing the danger in the business. Some of them were unnecessarily cruel.
4) Beeboo replied with anger.
5) The rudeness continued.

I seem to be in the minority here but I think that Beeboo never deserved the harsh remarks in the first place. I do think however Beeboo that some of the things you said afterwards were uncalled for. The tree-in-the-road incident is fine to explain on this forum, but not in the cocky attitude that you did it in. I still say that Beeboo was treated unfairly.

I think that the guys, and girl, on this forum are great. There are a few of you that need to check your attitudes though.

Darin, I dont agree with what you said. If someone gets rattled easy by words it doesn't make them a bad candidate for climbing. I think this person should practive avoiding reactions that have become a bad habit. I think anyone who loves trees, a good workout, and maybe doesn't mind heights, is a good candidate.

Beeboo, this site is a wealth of information. If you show that you've learned some things and try not to be tempted by jabs, I have a feeling you'll be a fine climber someday. 
By the way, just my opinion, go dynamic, traditional, with a Blake's Hitch (works wonderfully), and gradually move to a split-tail in order to avoid constant untying of your knot, as with the traditional system. KNOW TRADITIONAL FIRST!!

One more thing, you guys, why haven't I heard any good split-tail jokes??? : )


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## John Paul McMillin (Oct 24, 2001)

Osama bin Ladin will have a split-tail when that missle hits him in the ass


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## Darin (Oct 25, 2001)

I dont know if you got to read the 3 posts that I removed of Beeboo's but I had about 5 emails stating to remove them. This is why you may be in the minority.
I am just saying if you are rattled by a few words how is 100ft going to feel to you. Come on they are just words. People, just like you, dont agree with what I say constantly. Do I care? Not at all. It works in all field of business. Ryan Leaf, in foot ball, has all the tools. Rattled by words. The guy sucks. Sorry. I will never tell one of you any of the things that were directed towards Beeboo and others. But I will be contriversial. Thats why forums are great. You can see both sides. All right guys, continue with the fun.


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## WillClimb (Oct 25, 2001)

Yeah, I thought about the fact that I never got to read Beeboo's bad posts. He obviously got hot, and handled it incorrectly. And, the reason I couldn't read them is because the site was down for a good while. Beeboo, I suspect that happened due to Darin having to furiosly remove inappropriate posts from the forum. Just think about the fact that a lot of people who want to learn from this site just like you, got nothing for hours on end.

You guys are like family and I just hate to see you fight...ha! Kidding (not about the family part).  

No, I just see a lot of wasted energy that could be used to teach ME something about trees and climbing. I figure I have about 10 years of certification and experience to gain before I can even begin dreaming about being cocky.

OK, this is not Oprah's website!!! It's about one of most rugged, knuckle-scraping, new wound everyday, dirty as hell when ya get home, coolest of all jobs - Tree Work!!!

Willy


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## Darin (Oct 25, 2001)

Will, thanks for the reply. It was well stated.
There is a lot of wasted energy to post stupid items. If the stupid items mean no harm. I usually let them go. I sometimes get wise cracks in myself. I do like the fact that some of you send me reports on poor taste posts as I dont have time to read them all. My own personal police.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Oct 26, 2001)

This thread cracked me up! (until the end)

I loved the post about getting a ladder and pole saw. I was picturing some fool standing on the top rung of a ladder holding the very end of a 20' poe saw, then the branch comes crashing down...
I also find it interesting that so many advised all kinds of expensive equipment and training vidios for a guy who'll use them one or two times a year.
All one needs is a saddle, rope, lanyard, rope snap, saw, and some basic safty equipment. There's no need for a figure 8, the Blake won't burn your rope, unless you come burning down at high speeds. As for a throw ball and line, although nice, a big nut and some fishing line works.
And the egos...only a professional can climb a tree??? Dang, I was climbing trees when I was a kid.
I admire Beeboo's independence. In a few weeks he may be out climbing half of us, and a that point if he is climbing more, then he should decide what tools will make his life easier.


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## Darin (Oct 26, 2001)

Mike, this is very true. I was climbing trees at a very young age too and in high school actually did tree work with no saftey equipment. I hope we keep egos out also. I have fun and learn a ton from all of you everyday. How do you become a professional if nobody will teach you how.


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## The Climber (Oct 27, 2001)

It would be impossible to answer, in a few paragraphs, a question so vague and obviously written by someone who dosn't know jack. To attempt this would be as irresponsible as handing a loaded gun to a child (an emotionaly, and mentaly chalenged child) then proceding to tell him that it is a toy he can feel free to play russian roulette with. 
attn; NASSA, I'm planing on making a trip to the moon. I have on many occaisions jumped into the air and experienced temporary weightlessness, and I have walked on a few rough rocky surfaces that must have been similar to the moon's crust. So all I need to know is how to build a spaceship, how to fly it to my three day lunar holiday, and how to then return to earth (near michigan if possible). So you see I'm no rookie,I pretty much know rocket science forward and back. There is just those few details I would like to know about. I am sending a 3"x5"card, if you have a moment would you mind jotting down any theory's instruction or safty concern's that I may need to round off my already monumental library of knowledge.
I'm sure this will be offensive, and will be reguarded as my unwanted two cents, but don't bother telling me that I dont know the awnser to a question that you don't even know how to ask, because I am mature enough and selfconfident enough to read a comment about myself that I don't like or agree with without sheding a tear. 
If you can't recognize a parallel brain fart like those alluded to by rborist1, and treeman14 as being all but identical reflections of your own screwed up attitude, than realize that you need to take care of that hardon so you can recover some bloodflow to your brain. Then maby you would know that the right thing to do is to apologize to the many people who chose a humorous way to offer their two cents to a boy who had none. They were just looking out for your safty becouse you are not smart enough to know that it is worth more than a few hundred dollars.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Oct 27, 2001)

Wow! You compare tree climbing to space travel? You crack me up.
Let's keep things in perspective here. Let's say you have a leak in your roof, would you climb up there and repair it or would you call in a proffesional(assume your low on funds and rain is forcasted for tomorrow)?
I would repair it myself. 
What would they tell me at the roofing forum? They would say that roofers pay the highest workman's comp. insurance because their's is the most dangerous job, and that I was an idiot tho try to do what only a proffesional should do. 
But I assure you that I could get the job done without getting hurt. Not as good or as fast as a proffesional might do, but it would get done, cheap.
If you would be afraid to climb up on your roof, then fine, it's not for you. If not, and you want advise, just ask.


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## rborist1 (Oct 27, 2001)

:Eye:


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Oct 28, 2001)

Speaking of getting up in a tree I'm going to describe a method that is fun to try.
1. Set cambium saver with throw ball.
2. Pull climbing line through.
3. Set throw line as close as possible to cambium saver.
4. Tie in as usual, prussic of prefrence(MT/VT is best) and fair lead.

At this point you have everything set as normal, except this throw line dangling in your face.

5. Attach a gibbs ascender to the running side of your climbing line, above your hitch.
6. Attach a carabiner and a small block to the gibbs.
7. Tie one end of the trow line to the carabiner.
8. Run the tail of your climbing line through the block.

Now, just pull on the other side of the throw line to advance the gibbs (and tail of your rope) up the tree. Then pull on the tail of your rope, to advance your self up the tree. You now have a 4 to 1 advantage.

Heck, have your groundy pull you up it's easy. Once you're up, just disconect the gibbs and lower it with the throw line. You will be tied in as normal, and won't have expended all that energy foot locking.

I'm always looking for energy saving tips which become more and more important as one gets older. Now if I can just figure out how to get my walker up there...


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## Smith (Oct 28, 2001)

Hey Beeboo
Ive read through most of this thread and can see alot of mixed reactions to your approach to your tree care. What ever climing system you decide to use make sure you get use to it before accually working on it. Practice in small trees both going up and down. Get use to the knot your going to be using if it is a blake, your going to have to trust your equipment . Keep asking questions, knowledge is your safest eqipment.


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## tree md (Oct 29, 2001)

This is an awsome site, just found it and read this thread first because I am always looking to learn new climbing techniques. I laughed my ass off through this whole thread. First of all if this guy can't figure out how to get up or down a tree he has no business the tree. Not trying to knock you for trying to do the work yourself, hell the first tree i took down my dad sent me up because he wouldn't pay market price, he paid me 10 dollars, i was 14... ladder no gear. but to be a climber you have to have a certain amount of natural ability and comon sence. The best tip I heard so far was mike maas' tip to use a throw ball and have someone pull u up. to the other extreme I laughed at all the climbers suggesting ascenders, foot locking and the comparison of tree climbing to rocket science. I have worked with and hired climbers that make it so technical that buy the time they are done rigging ascenders and tying complicated knots and using 20 caribiners I would have either falled the tree or brought it down in two or three peices and been back at the shop drinking a beer. I would like to share a funny story though. About 8 yrs ago me and my partner were working a neighborhood and a couple of houses down from the job we were doing a guy was working his way up a tree with a ladder and a rope. We walked down and told him we were doing a few jobs in the area and would be willing to help him with the tree for a very reasonable price. he sort of had the same attitude as the guy that started this thread and said he had it under control. we told him ok and let us know if he changed his mind. to make a long story short, he tracked us down a couple of streets over the next day with his whole head bandadged up wanting us to take care of his trees, he used a rope that was too short and pulled the tree over on his truck while he was in it. after he was out of site we laughed until we cried. I have made a lot of mistakes in my career... thank God I lived through them and learned.


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## ubugarrity (Oct 29, 2001)

*Thanks for the tips?*

Wow. You guys are incredible. I'm new to this site. I'm not a tree guy. I've been a ground man for several friends that all do it. I'm a firefighter and trained in confined space and high angle rescue. ( different ropes and techniques) The reason I found this site and thread is to read about some climbing techniques.
Where are they? I think there were two in this whole mess. The guys I work for all do it differently with different equipment. I was hoping to just get some ideas which techniques are recommended and why. How about talking about climbing and what techniques you use. Why you do it that way and what equipment you have. How do you guys go up and how do you come back down. Is it a secret? The one or two rope technigue. Climb with spikes and then hook in? Hoisted from the ground man with a 4:1. saddles? Prusiks? Mechanicl devices? Bad experiences that we all can learn from. Maybe we could all learn a tip or two. Please. Lets start a real chat. I know this is dangerous. Daah. Anyone that would do some thing dangerous with out training is probably going to do it with or with out your help. I kinda figured you should read books and get experience from experienced people. But how do you know which people are safe. I was hoping to learn what techniques to learn from the pros. Isn't that what this forum is about or have I got it all wrong? Well thats enough from me. All the two cents here some one could be a rich man. Can't we all just get along? Take care guys and stay safe!!! Espeacially Beebo. God Bless us All. PS I have a great sense of humor.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Oct 29, 2001)

There are three common ways folks get into a tree.

Method one: Spike up, using gaffs, staying tied in with a two sided lanyard. Once at the top tie in and work down. This method is only used for removals.

Method two: Put a ladder up high enough into the tree to reach the branches, then free climb, staying tied in as you ascend. Using this method, one can throw his climbing rope up to the next branch and pull himself up, if there is a long strech of trunk without branches.

Method three:Use a throw ball to set a static line or climbing line, then footlock up, tie in and go to work.

No method is best for all situations. 

Since you asked for a tip, here's mine: Reduce friction on your climbing system by using a cambium saver, a fair lead, and use a 5/16 ultra tech to tie a friction hitch that breaks easily like the MT/VT. If you are still using a blake's your wasting energy breaking that thing loose.


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## Kevin (Oct 29, 2001)

I have to wonder just how many guys are actually certified to climb.
I`ve been climbing utility poles on spurs for 28 years(yikes) and the only formal training I received when I strapped on my spurs for the first time was from a first level manager who saw me strap on the spurs, climb ten feet then disappeared.
I`m qualified to climb but I don`t have a piece of paper saying I`m certified.
The only other training we ever had was equipment inspection and the cut-out test.
We still have managers who have never really been certified themselves teaching new hires how to climb, in less than an hour.
Any arbo`s I have talked with so far up here aren`t certified and don`t even know where to get certified but they all climb!


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## tree md (Oct 29, 2001)

I got a question. What is better using a tie on or a clip for your saw. I always use a clip for doing crane work and a tie on for most trees that I am lowering branches or free falling because I was taught that way and I like to be able to get rid of my saw real quick so I can use both hands to either catch and pitch the limb or hinge it to where I want it to go. I have heard that tie ons are dangerous and can yank you out of the tree. I have never come close to being yanked out of a tree by my saw but I have been jerked pretty good a couple of times from not making my cuts just right. What do you think?

Stay safe


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## The Climber (Oct 30, 2001)

*treemd*

I have been using the 2-in-1 breakaway bungee lanyard for about a year now. It has a breakaway snap in case of a 200+ pound yank. I haven't had the occaision to whitness a breakaway but i feel safer using it, and it doesn't get in the way. I know that Sherrill carries these,don't know about other co's.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 30, 2001)

Wow, lota good questions here.

Saw lanyard, I always nick mine up so I have a piece of webbing that lets it hang under my feet. I have a utility biner on each end tied with fisheman's. If I am cutting something that may be enough to give me a yank I will unclip. Happened once on a storm-job. Super cheep. For big saws I put them on seperate ropes and tie them off natural crotch or pulley, until I gotta chunk the trunck.

Mike mettions M/VT knots. These are newer closed loop "tresses" where both ends of the attaching line terminate on your 'biner after wraping/braiding around the climbing line.

I am one of those guys that will take a few minutes to a half hour to set my line as high as posible so I can work my way up without having to reset several times. Some trees I still climb on double fliplines, like old Norway maples. Make a monkey paw and do the first pich as a 20-25 ft rope climb. I know many people that can beat the pants off a "ladder man" if the race were timed out of the truck.

I'll use an ascender if I'm footlocking on a closed loop just to make it easier.

Sticky gloves like are a real sweat saver too, a must have if doing 30-40 foot pitches. 

Climbers certification by ISA is something that is only just starting out, so not many people have it.


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## monkeypuzzle (Oct 31, 2001)

I stopped using saw lanyards all together a few years ago.Too much swinging around below my feet.Now I just use the 9" to 11", "accessory straps" now.I put them on all my saws for quick and easy tie ins.Connect right to my belt.Sure,I have dropped a few saws but it is just a saw.I use a lot of Husky 136s so I don't worry.I have a tear away lanyard that I used once;where is that darn thing?


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## treeman82 (Nov 19, 2001)

I use a safety strap that I guess is about 3' long or so? Maybe it's 4'. I tried using the break-away thing about a year ago and truly was not happy with it. The reason I was not happy was because at that time I was doing a good amount of larger removals. When you are chunking a tree down with an Stihl 044 and you have nowhere to hang that saw off of besides your belt it tears the break-aways pretty fast. My normal climbing saw is the 020T but for those times I needed the 044 that made me lose my faith in the break-aways.


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## Nathan Wreyford (Sep 1, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Beeboo _
> *I am looking for idea's---not warning's.
> 
> 
> ...



Truly a classic post!!


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## Crofter (Sep 1, 2004)

I'd almost bet from the attitude and wording that we have seen that poster under a different name. Trolling I think.


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 10, 2004)

So I guess this Beebo guy was banned?


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## jkrueger (Sep 10, 2004)

What's the purpose of draging this old thread out of the basket. The guy hasn't been here for a decade. No one has an original thought?

Jack


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 10, 2004)

*Nah*

Beebo was just a hoot, that's all.  

It's good sometimes to drag up old threads.


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## jkrueger (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Nah*



> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *Beebo was just a hoot, that's all.
> 
> It's good sometimes to drag up old threads.  *



I must be out of it, of course, gotcha.
Jack


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## jkrueger (Sep 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *Hey Jack, this thread is cool. Why don't you share your best little climbing trick? *



OK, and at the risk of being shot out of the tree?

My lanyard was beyond trusting, and always seemed to short. Got a 18'+ piece of hi-ve(sp) from Big John and when I went to make a new lanyard I didn't want to cut it. So, I left it at the 18'+ length and use a VT/knunt insted of my usual mechanical device. Big John and even I thought it was silly. He said, "dat aint no lanyard thats a climbing line".

Well I've goten used to it and finding ways to smothly keep the excess coiled. I use it a lot for short exteded free climing beyound my TIP. and also for getting closer to the 'next' TIP if I need to.

I can run out a decent distance and just let it go. Kinda like a virtual 2nd tie in with no removal time.

It's wierd, and I'm finding different ways of using it.

Jack


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## a_lopa (Sep 11, 2004)

theres a guy on ebay beeboo selling climbing kit


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