# Wood Stove in Large uninsulated basement not heating up stairs.



## winsormcbeth (Jan 7, 2013)

I have a wood stove in my 1,050 sq foot unfinished, uninsulated block basement with half the walls underground and half above ground. The side above ground even has 2 windows. The ceiling does have insulation. I can only raise the temp in the basement by 11 degrees so there is no way its going to heat the upstairs. I loose too much heat through the walls and its too big of a room, especially uninsulated. I have 2 thoughts... 
1. Run duct work to within a couple feet above the stove with a fan to push the heat through the duct work to the center of the upstairs. 
2. Run duct work from a couple feet above the stove to my return duct work for my furnace and run the fan so it pushes the heat to every room up stairs. Someone told me this could throw the system out of balance since the system is designed for the exact size of the house?? I'm trying to heat the 1 level above the basement which is 2,400 sq ft. Any thoughts would be appreciated!


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## stihly dan (Jan 7, 2013)

Get some air movement up stairs. Some high low vents. The longer you keep the heat in the basement the more you will lose. Can't lose it if it's already upstairs.


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## kwalshy (Jan 7, 2013)

stihly dan said:


> Get some air movement up stairs. Some high low vents. The longer you keep the heat in the basement the more you will lose. Can't lose it if it's already upstairs.



What he said.

You need a means to bring the warm air upstairs, hence the vents. With the insulation in the ceiling of the basement there is no path for the warm air to reach the living space in your house.

And if you can afford it, put Styrofoam boards on the block walls in the basement.


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## Patrick62 (Jan 7, 2013)

*build a little room?*

build a little room around the stove, and run a couple of 20" ducts off this room up to the floor and use a couple of large floor vents? Bring a return air duct back down from opposite side of the house. You now have a "gravity" furnace.


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## kevinlar (Jan 7, 2013)

why not insulate the basement walls?


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## winsormcbeth (Jan 7, 2013)

Patrick62 said:


> build a little room around the stove, and run a couple of 20" ducts off this room up to the floor and use a couple of large floor vents? Bring a return air duct back down from opposite side of the house. You now have a "gravity" furnace.



I am certainly considering this. I may build a little room plus put a "hood" over the stove like is done in the attached picture. The stove is at the opposite end of the basement where the stairwell door is so i could just leave that door open to be my "gravity" return?


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## winsormcbeth (Jan 7, 2013)

kevinlar said:


> why not insulate the basement walls?



I thought of that but that would be more expensive than putting a hood over the stove to suck the concentrated hot air up stairs. It would take a while to heat the upstairs after i got home from work by heating the whole basement as well. Its a large basement.


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## winsormcbeth (Jan 7, 2013)

Del_ said:


> Four mil plastic hung from the ceiling down to the floor is quick and cheap to make a small room. You'd be surprised at the difference in temperature it creates.



That sounds like a great idea, However is there something Better that would insulate more that I could use? It would be nice to hang something rather than put up 2x4s for a insulated wall.


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## gregfox (Jan 8, 2013)

A "through the floor fan" above the stove will directly take your heat upstairs. Convection through the floor doesn't work very well. I used to stay 10-15 degrees warmer downstairs until I installed a "level to level fan"(too lazy to look for link but one of these phrases will find one. Anyways now basement and first floor are within 5 degrees with the fan. It was about $180 and worth every penny.


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## PEKS (Jan 8, 2013)

You need to circulate the warm air upstairs for sure..
Running a cold air return, to your furnace will help, especially if there is no return air vents already..
Do not install a vent directly above your stove, that is too close, it will draw and could create a negative pressure when you open the stove door to add wood. (if you do install a return air vent above your stove, have an open/shut damper on it and close it when opening the stove door, especially on light up)
Insulation of the walls is a must..


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## struggle (Jan 8, 2013)

Insulate the basement walls. It is the only true fix. Bare concrete walls are huge heat suckers. 

Also it is easier to bring colder upstairs heat to the basement than to push the hot air upwards often due to pressure differential between floors.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2


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## Steve NW WI (Jan 8, 2013)

I have a similar setup, except for 1" foam on the outside of the block up to ground level. I pulled all the ceiling insulation which helped some, added some vents in the floor to help with airflow, that helped a bit more, and I'm going to rig a downflow fan at the opposite end of the house to keep air moving which should help a bit more.

What concerns me the most is that you don't have a large enough stove to be effective, if you can only raise the basement temp by 10 degrees or so right now, without helping the upstairs much or at all. You are either going to need insulation, a bigger heater, or both to make this work well.


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## EXCALIBER (Jan 8, 2013)

I agree, bigger stove needed. Only a 1000sq ft basement and you can't get it to heat up, time for a decent stove. My trailer is 1200 sq ft and I can heat it up pretty fast, and about as hot as you would want to have it. No insulation on the floor either. Bigger stove, then worry about the upstairs if that doesn't get the job done.


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## haveawoody (Jan 8, 2013)

Clear poly cover over the windows in the basement as step 1.
Bet that is around 50% of the heat loss.
Insulate the north wall only inside the basement, another 10-20%.
1" styrene insulation sheets and construction adhesive and very little money and time. 
Continue walls as needed.

In the long run you will end up with a much warmer house, the basement semi finished and no silly temp things you need to remove later.

The savings in firewood costs i bet will be more than the wall insulation and window poly costs.


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## GeeVee (Jan 8, 2013)

winsormcbeth said:


> That sounds like a great idea, However is there something Better that would insulate more that I could use? It would be nice to hang something rather than put up 2x4s for a insulated wall.



Try ThermoPly. Its structural sheathing about an eighth inch thick, foil face on one side, about ten bucks a 4x8 sheet. Its not super insulative, but it is very reflective. You can cook and egg on it outside in the sun. Basicaly a heat reflective barrier we use down here in the sun, it will send heat away from the walls. 

Go buy ONE sheet and drag it down there, stand it up and come back ten minutes later. If you don;t feel the heat coming OFF it by standing in front of it then moving sideways away from it, send me the bill for the sheet. 

A cold barrier on the block would be a good idea, Styro and ThermoPly can both be adhered with adhesives.


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## NorthernOntario (Jan 8, 2013)

I'll repeat what others are saying... you need to insulate those concrete walls (and floor if you can). Concrete is a huge thermal sink... unless it's well insulated on the outside to "hold" the heat, all it's doing is absorbing the heat from your stove and moving it outside. 

Consider this... if you build a little room around that stove to duct heat upstairs, what happens to the rest of that basement? How quickly will it cool down to the surrounding soil temps? And it's still sucking heat out of the house. 

If it's all open and easily accessed, you could consider spray foam on the walls for a nice high R value. Consult with local building codes as to the best method of application... whether you need to stud the walls ahead of time, or if you can strap over it. If $ is a concern, you can also do it one section at a time with foam board, or even studs and fiberglass/rockwool insulation. With extruded polystyrene (XPS) board, you're looking at R5/inch.... fiberglass/rockwool batts are R3/inch. The XPS board can be fastened directly to the wall, then covered with drywall for the fire-rating necessary. 

How much heat is being sucked into the floor directly around the stove?


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## Jules083 (Jan 8, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> 1" styrene insulation sheets and construction adhesive and very little money and time.
> Continue walls as needed.



Sorry to muck up the op's thread, but,

Is it really that easy?

I was thinking I'd have to basically frame in the basement, run insulation between the framing, then screw drywall to that. I was thinking that if the wall ever leaks or sweats the glue would let loose and cause a big mess.

How would you put drywall over the sheets? More glue? It wouldn't have to be perfect, I'm happy with good enough. I spend more time in the basement than the rest of the house, but it's still just a basement. I have an exit door here, and I'm roughly 40% underground. Most of the front wall, some on the sides, none on the back.


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## SS396driver (Jan 8, 2013)

I remodeled my basement last year. The cement floor was so bad it was crumbling so the floor came out 2 inch insulation and 6 mill vapor barrier and poured new cement. Studed the walls out about an inch and used blue foam to get r-15 . The dryboard is the dense armor that wont rot or mold no paper . My point is after doing this I use a lot less wood and my house is warmer


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## DB43725 (Jan 8, 2013)

Get a bigger stove. I got an 1800 sg block basement and my ashly will run you out and the up stairs as well,, when fired up. I have to shut is way down or Im constanly opening windows up stairs enven when its 20 degrees outside. Now if the wind is blowing its not so bad.


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## Marc (Jan 8, 2013)

Del_ said:


> With the plastic I was talking about something that could be done in a couple of hours for twenty bucks or so plus the cost of grates for the floor.
> 
> Another idea with the plastic is for a cold air return. If you have a floor vent just hang a plastic tube from the vent in the ceiling of the basement that reached to within a foot and a half from the floor. Cold air will thermosiphon down this tube quite well and it can be located quite close to the stove. I used this set up for a decade or so in a situation similar to yours. If you don't mind cutting some vent holes in the floor a 12x16 or so plastic room with return vents could be done really cheap and quickly. Where the plastic touches the floor old magazines work well as weights.
> 
> ...



It's an easy and cheap solution, but polyethylene sheeting + space heating device sets off my fire protection alarm bells. I wouldn't want that in my basement, especially in close proximity to floor/ceiling bypass holes.


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## Guswhit (Jan 8, 2013)

WHat about some pole barn insulation? I have seen it in 8' wide or wider rolls with a poly face. You could cut it to length and tack it up with some roofing nails to the sill plate and drap it down the walls. It is pretty cheap.


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## Steve NW WI (Jan 8, 2013)

Del_ said:


> I kind of disagree with all of the suggestions of insulating the whole basement. It is a big job, expensive, and lots of things like mold, etc. to contend with in the future. It is a large can of worms to get into expecially as the floor above the basement is already insulated. Did I mention it's a big job?
> 
> Even a small studded out insulated room would be better than doing the whole basement.
> 
> Now if you happen to live in a really nice house........it would be the way to go.



I'm totally confused by the number of people who treat a basement as a way to hide the mechanical equipment and store junk. Why pay good money for space you're not going to use. 

I spend most of the summer hiding in the basement where it's naurally cooler instead of cranking the AC, and have a little workshop down there for small projects (like tinkering on old saws). Mine's by no means "finished", but it's sure useable. It's got all the essentials down there, a bedroom, bathroom, shop area, and a living room area. TV, microwave, and beer fridge for when I don't feel like going upstairs at all, and as a bonus, the cell phone doesn't work worth crap down there.

If you don't want a useable basement, build on a slab. If you're gonna have a basement, get some use out of it. Too many people I know have a big fancy house with a bunch of wasted space below the first floor. It's always the same, "I'm gonna finish it, someday."


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## haveawoody (Jan 8, 2013)

Jules083,

It's that easy to insulate a basement.

Construction adhesive like PE or another good brand will never let go once dry.
With tounge and grove insulation pannels it's pretty much as good as sprayed insulation.

If the basement is getting wet it's one of two things, a leak or crack in the wall or very cold walls and warm air inside allowing it to condensate.
A thermal break of insulation pannels will stop condensation in it's tracks forever, but a leak or crack in the wall it won't stop.

As for drywall it almost never goes right on the insulation in a basement.
Framing just beyond the insulation and drywall on it, eletrical in the framing.
Sprayed in foam is similar but tends to fill more of the wood bays area so you have to frame first a few inches away from the wall.
With pannels you frame whenever you decide to finish the basement and you can select fire resistant insulation pannels so no real rush to finish a basement.

Dont forget to thermal break the framing if you plan on putting it up as the same condensation problem from the floor will rot it on the bottom.

Basement = Man cave, large beer fridge, pool table, bar, giant tv movie room, workshop etc.
Sounds like my kind of waste area


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## allstihl (Jan 8, 2013)

my cellar is 1000sq ft. no insulation.my stove is gravity feed. cellar is 80, 1st floor is 75, 2nd floor is 60.you need a bigger stove!


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## ziggo_2 (Jan 8, 2013)

most people i know with a stove in the basement have a large grate above it in the floor. If that works for you, that would be the easiest and cheapest way to get heat up there.


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## stihlguy (Jan 8, 2013)

ziggo_2 said:


> most people i know with a stove in the basement have a large grate above it in the floor. If that works for you, that would be the easiest and cheapest way to get heat up there.


This is my barrel stove kit with duct work up to a grate in the living room floor, end of hall way there is a 10" X 15" cold air return down to cellar floor. 1200 sq ft ranch house, both cellar and house very warm all winter. Cellar walls are not insulated and are not exposed.


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## MotorSeven (Jan 8, 2013)

winsormcbeth said:


> I have a wood stove in my 1,050 sq foot unfinished, uninsulated block basement with half the walls underground and half above ground. The side above ground even has 2 windows. The ceiling does have insulation. I can only raise the temp in the basement by 11 degrees so there is no way its going to heat the upstairs. I loose too much heat through the walls and its too big of a room, especially uninsulated. I have 2 thoughts...
> 1. Run duct work to within a couple feet above the stove with a fan to push the heat through the duct work to the center of the upstairs.
> 2. Run duct work from a couple feet above the stove to my return duct work for my furnace and run the fan so it pushes the heat to every room up stairs. Someone told me this could throw the system out of balance since the system is designed for the exact size of the house?? I'm trying to heat the 1 level above the basement which is 2,400 sq ft. Any thoughts would be appreciated!



What brand of stove are you running since a 11 degree rise ain't much? Uninsulated block walls have an insulation R-value of 1...that's right ONE. Your going to have to get a bigger stove and insulate your walls that are above ground.


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## Patrick62 (Jan 8, 2013)

*drywall is cheap*

My original suggestion isn't so cracked after all.
A couple of arm loads of 2x4's and 8 sheets of drywall. Frame you a nice 8 foot cube. Then run two LARGE ducts off this room to separate floor vents (equally large). No fan needed. Hot air rises quite nicely. The return down the stairs is awsum. Just put a honkin' big vent in the basement door if you don't wanna leave it ajar.

The big problem is the walls and windows is where the heat is going. Plus there is insulation in the main floor...
While you are at it, wrap some insulation around the ducts, put them atleast a dozen feet apart. it'll work like a charm. Then you can figure out a way to get wood into basement, enough for a few days anyway.

Not gonna freak out and mention that maybe the fire department should be on speed dial, and there aught to be planks of drywall ready to cover the vents (buys a few minutes to get the he double hockey sticks outta there). Not gonna freak at all.


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## haveawoody (Jan 9, 2013)

winsormcbeth,

Just a thought here but do you have a basement door at the top of the stairs that remains closed?
If so try leaving it open and the natural heat flow will send heat upstairs.

At minimum poly over and tape in place the basement windows though.
Windows are always a source of cold air entering the building and with a woodstove wanting air it will pull from the closest easiest source for it.


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## zogger (Jan 9, 2013)

Add some floor vents, at least one per room upstairs, and leave the basement steps door open is the cheapest way to get some heat up there NOW. Then start working on insulating the walls.

And you said the floor was insulated, as in you are starring at fiberglass insulation fibers? I would think that isnt too nice for air quality. Perhaps you can reuse that in the attic, add more depth? I mean you are trying to heat upstairs, yet the insulation blocks that from happening right now.

I am just saying what I would do working on the cheap. Floor vents/grates, take that insulation up to the attic or crawlspace and lay it in on top of what is there. 

Those rigid glue on sheets the guys mention up above sound the ticket for the basement walls.

check the specs and make sure the glue/adhesive is correct and that when you apply them the temjps are within range. Might be diicult to get a good stick in the winter i those walls are cold. maybe an electric heater aimed at a wall section, then move it to the next one, etc. Or infrared heat lamps. Farm/feed stores carry those, like tractor supply, etc.

I used to use those working on vehicles in the winter up north, just aimed it at the area I was working, was nice! As I had no garage (still dont..grumble..), those dont heat air but heat up the parts/area in question well, plus provide light. Just dont get drips on the bulbs while they are hot....


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## blackdogon57 (Jan 9, 2013)

Why not move the stove upstairs ? If you spend your time upstairs the that's where a wood stove usually works best. I remember reading a thread the other day where the poster mentioned that his house was 100 degrees warmer than outside. I bet the stove was located on the main floor.


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## winsormcbeth (Jan 9, 2013)

DB43725 said:


> Get a bigger stove. I got an 1800 sg block basement and my ashly will run you out and the up stairs as well,, when fired up. I have to shut is way down or Im constanly opening windows up stairs enven when its 20 degrees outside. Now if the wind is blowing its not so bad.



It is not a small stove. Its a Schrader. Its about 16" deep and 22" or 23" wide. Here is a picture.


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## winsormcbeth (Jan 9, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> winsormcbeth,
> 
> Just a thought here but do you have a basement door at the top of the stairs that remains closed?
> If so try leaving it open and the natural heat flow will send heat upstairs.
> ...



I did have the basement door open, but the basement wasn't getting very warm. After burning the stove for 6+ hours one evening the temperature in the basement only went up 11 degrees so i think all the heat was being absorbed through the block walls. I like and agree with all the ideas about building a small room/enclosure around the stove (even if just with 4mil plastic like a greenhouse) and then running a fan with duct work out of that room to the upstairs.


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## winsormcbeth (Jan 9, 2013)

MotorSeven said:


> What brand of stove are you running since a 11 degree rise ain't much? Uninsulated block walls have an insulation R-value of 1...that's right ONE. Your going to have to get a bigger stove and insulate your walls that are above ground.



Its a Schrader and mesasures about 16x23" inside so not small. I attached a pic. I think it is old and it does have an 8" opening so i used a reducer down so i could fit it to my 6" stainless steel chimney liner. I've been told that its bad to go from 8" opening on the stove to 6" chimney liner too :-(


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## winsormcbeth (Jan 9, 2013)

*Is the problem with my Old Schrader Fireplace stove?*

Just did some reading on forums about my Schrader Fireplace stove and it seems like it was made in the late 1970's and early 80's and is not very efficient. Inside its about 16in by 23in. It has an 8" pipe out the back and i put a "reducer" on it to make it fit my 6" stainless steel chimney. I went into a stove shop the other day and the prices for a new stove were well over $1500, some $2000 and one was over $3000 but it burned 20 hours and was automatically/electronically controlled and like 100% efficient. It even burned the smoke it created! Maybe part of my problem is i need a newer, more efficient stove!?


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## allstihl (Jan 9, 2013)

+1


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## stihlguy (Jan 9, 2013)

winsormcbeth said:


> Just did some reading on forums about my Schrader Fireplace stove and it seems like it was made in the late 1970's and early 80's and is not very efficient. Inside its about 16in by 23in. It has an 8" pipe out the back and i put a "reducer" on it to make it fit my 6" stainless steel chimney. I went into a stove shop the other day and the prices for a new stove were well over $1500, some $2000 and one was over $3000 but it burned 20 hours and was automatically/electronically controlled and like 100% efficient. It even burned the smoke it created! Maybe part of my problem is i need a newer, more efficient stove!?


I believe the new barrel stove kits are around $75 + the barrel. Simple, yet effective.


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## shawnw (Jan 9, 2013)

winsormcbeth said:


> Just did some reading on forums about my Schrader Fireplace stove and it seems like it was made in the late 1970's and early 80's and is not very efficient. Inside its about 16in by 23in. It has an 8" pipe out the back and i put a "reducer" on it to make it fit my 6" stainless steel chimney. I went into a stove shop the other day and the prices for a new stove were well over $1500, some $2000 and one was over $3000 but it burned 20 hours and was automatically/electronically controlled and like 100% efficient. It even burned the smoke it created! Maybe part of my problem is i need a newer, more efficient stove!?


Stupid question: Is the stove functioning correctly? Old stoves were horribly inefficient but typically BLAST out the heat. What are your flue temps? What kind of wood? Is it seasoned? Is it burning properly? I guess I'm of the thought process that we should cover the basics before we reinvent the wheel, and I don't think I've seen these questions addressed yet? Could be wrong....worked 15 hours today, so I'm a bit shot.


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## stihly dan (Jan 9, 2013)

1st your stove is NOT working well with the reduced chimney, Just cut the size in half. 2nd take down the insulation in the ceiling and put it in the attic. 3rd. put as many floor vents as possible. 4th put a couple floor vents attached to 6 in rd duct work to the floor of the basement, 8 in of the floor.5th get a fan in a can, $21 at Lowe's, put it in one of the ducts. This will pressurize the basement helping the heat that wants to rise, go up stairs. 
Now if you can afford it, get a new stove. Box stores will have some for $500 or so now, better ones are better. Then at least those 4X8 sheets of 2 in insulation with foil backing.(they are not rated for indoor but will work.) And lastly, some sort of reflective material in front of the stove on the floor. That concrete area takes a crap load of heat.

LET IT BE SAID< LET IT BE DONE!!!

DO IT!!


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## winsormcbeth (Jan 9, 2013)

shawnw said:


> Stupid question: Is the stove functioning correctly? Old stoves were horribly inefficient but typically BLAST out the heat. What are your flue temps? What kind of wood? Is it seasoned? Is it burning properly? I guess I'm of the thought process that we should cover the basics before we reinvent the wheel, and I don't think I've seen these questions addressed yet? Could be wrong....worked 15 hours today, so I'm a bit shot.



Not sure what the flue temps are. I am burning apple wood and it is certainly seasoned, over 1 year old. Tons of apple orchards near my house so no problem getting wood as farmers are always pushing out an old orchard! I keep the damper on the pipe out of the stove open to get the fire started and then close it so as not to loose all my heat out the chimney and have it burn slower. The vents on the front i have played with and doesn't seem to make much difference if they are open or nearly shut but then again i can't see the fire inside since there is no glass to look through.


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## shawnw (Jan 9, 2013)

winsormcbeth said:


> Not sure what the flue temps are. I am burning apple wood and it is certainly seasoned, over 1 year old. Tons of apple orchards near my house so no problem getting wood as farmers are always pushing out an old orchard! I keep the damper on the pipe out of the stove open to get the fire started and then close it so as not to loose all my heat out the chimney and have it burn slower. The vents on the front i have played with and doesn't seem to make much difference if they are open or nearly shut but then again i can't see the fire inside since there is no glass to look through.


lots of good info here: http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/122666.htm


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## Patrick62 (Jan 9, 2013)

*Good stove, wrong location*

My fathers stove was =>exactly<= the same. We had it in a 1000 sq ft house direct vented into a old fireplace as a insert would be. It is now blasting out the heat in a modular in northern colorado and hooked up to a 6" pipe. Jeff didn't like the thin stove pipe so he used some 6" id DIESEL exhaust pipe... 

Move the stove upstairs and build it a little "safe" place to use it. Your problems will be over, I guarantee it.

If you are bound and determined to have a stove in the basement, go to the barrel stove idea. Better yet do the double barrel kit.
Eventually you will get it to work. The nice Schrader deserves a place of honor in your living room, not hiding in the basement.

One word of caution on over firing them. Those doors are cast aluminum. They will warp. My fathers were in perfect condition. I saw one that was warped so bad you could not shut it! The Schrader I use in my shop I have to straighten the doors once in awhile (do what I say, not what I do)


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## thenorth (Jan 9, 2013)

push the COLD air toward the heat source.....


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## haveawoody (Jan 10, 2013)

winsormcbeth,

6hrs burning apple wood and it warmed 11 degrees.
Not good.

I've seen large workshops with no insulation and cracks all over that the air enters in mid winter warm more than that in 1 hr.

My thoughts on the problem.
Something is wrong with the stove or serious air infiltration is happening in the house.

A couple things to try.
Go to the rentall place and rent yourself a large electric heater and a thermal camera.
Make sure your woodstove is cold and set the electric heater close to the woodstove location, crank it up and see if the temp goes up semi quick 1hr or 2 hrs.

While you are waiting check everywhere with the thermal camera on all levels, downstairs, upstairs, walls ceiling.
It will tell all about cold spots, insulation amounts and serious drafts.
Pay serious attention to other fuel burning equiptment, sometimes it's as simple as a sloppy chimney flap allowing cold air straight into a basement.
A fuel oil burning furnace is suspect #1 for that problem.

If the electric heats the basement the stove is garbage or the chimney is garbage.
If the electric don't then the camera should tell you why.

I'm not sure i would make an airtight small room for the fireplace and push air upstairs.
Sounds like a bad day waiting to happen on the first power failure.


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## GeeVee (Jan 10, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> Jules083,
> 
> It's that easy to insulate a basement.
> 
> ...



Forgot the Stripper Pole


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## daleeper (Jan 10, 2013)

winsormcbeth said:


> Not sure what the flue temps are. I am burning apple wood and it is certainly seasoned, over 1 year old. Tons of apple orchards near my house so no problem getting wood as farmers are always pushing out an old orchard! I keep the damper on the pipe out of the stove open to get the fire started and then close it so as not to loose all my heat out the chimney and have it burn slower. The vents on the front i have played with and doesn't seem to make much difference if they are open or nearly shut but then again i can't see the fire inside since there is no glass to look through.



Good seasoned apple is hard to beat for heat producing wood. That stove you have should be able to make a lot of heat, but it will also burn a lot of wood doing it. The uninsulated basement is sucking up a lot of heat.

You have a lot of things going against you, but your complaint should be that you are burning too much wood, not that you can't get any heat. You have something wrong, and I think you have just exposed it.

If you have your chimney damper closed, the vents on the front will not be making a whole lot of difference. You have the air closed down too much. Open it up a bit to see if you can't generate a little more heat. It can be adjusted, just like the vents on the front of the stove. I would want the chimney damper opened enough that you can dial in the fire with the vents on the stove front. Have you had any trouble getting a draft with that stove? I'm guessing not, or you wouldn't have put that damper in, but still something we need to know.

The other problem may be the wood. You say that it is seasoned one year. Is that cut and split for one year? I don't know how long it takes for apple to season, but most dense woods take two years to really get dry. What is the moisture content of that wood? Many people think their wood is dry, when it really isn't. 

If you have a good hot fire going, you should be able to raise the temperature of the basement, and hopefully up to the main floor of the house. I will say that it will take a few days to get all that concrete warmed up enough to start sending heat upstairs. 

I would also be concerned about the insulation in the ceiling of the basement blocking heat to the upstairs, however, it should be holding heat down, and your basement should be getting warmer because of it, which is not the case. At some point you will most likely have to address the insulation, add venting, or get lucky and the stairwell will direct heat up to get heat upstairs.

My guess is if you get that fire going, and start heating the house, the next complaint is that you are burning too much wood. Either insulate that basement, or move the stove upstairs. A more efficient stove would be next in line.

Your current stove and wood should be heating better than it is now. Get this sorted out now, then insulate and/or cut more wood, work out the air movement issues between the basement and the main floor, then get a more efficient/bigger stove.

Good luck and let us know what you are doing to get this solved.


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## doug4k (Jan 10, 2013)

open damper all the way. adjust air intake and see how much heat it puts out. i burn a lot of apple and it puts out plenty of heat. crack door open slightly to view fire. you should have a nice burning fire in there.


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## Bushmans (Jan 10, 2013)

Switch it out with a wood furnace and connect to duct work. No more freaking around!


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## Dalmatian90 (Jan 10, 2013)

Now wait a minute...

He's using a damper on the stove pipe on what looks like a Fisher-clone airtight stove?

I can't find any info in a quick Google on Schrader, but that's sure what it looks like to me, and the age would be right.

Shouldn't that stove be capable of regulating itself with just the dampers built into the doors? Are his gaskets / stove cement so shot it's leaking like a seive and shoving all the heat up the chimney despite the flue damper?

Growing up our All-Nighter Fisher clone could get the stove pipe cherry red, but shutting the doors brought everything under control.

When you say you burn apple wood for six hours, how much (arm load, etc.) And are you putting in more wood every two hours or something? Or is it one load lasting 6+ hours? Burned down to ash or a thick bed of coals?

And go to any place that sells woodstove stuff and buy a $10 magnetic thermometer to stick on the flu so you can at least tell us some basic numbers.


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## winsormcbeth (Jan 10, 2013)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Now wait a minute...
> 
> He's using a damper on the stove pipe on what looks like a Fisher-clone airtight stove?
> 
> ...



No, the "damper" is built into the 8 inch collar that goes out the back of the stove. With it open, the flames literally are sucked up the chimney so draft is NOT a problem. A guy in a wood stove shop mentioned that with some of the older stoves, they weren't air tight. The Schrader Fireplace stoves were built in 1978-1882 so they are old and not meant to have a gasket around the door which is kind of weird. I will have to get a flu temp magnet. There are so so many variables! To be honest, i am seriously considering buying a Englander model 28-3500 wood stove furnace...here is the link. 3,000 sq. ft. Wood Burning Add-On Furnace-28-3500 at The Home Depot That way i will have a stove with a 6 in collar like it should be, one i know will have no "leaks" and i don't have to worry about heating the basement/insulation, etc. I just run long enough duct work to my existing duct work from my propane furnace and it will heat my whole house evenly! The stove is only $1200 which is cheaper than what it might take to insulate my basement and run appropriate duct work or make a hood for my current stove. Also, with 45 reviews, it has an almost perfect 5 start rating so it seems like a very tempting option, right!?


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## daleeper (Jan 11, 2013)

Looks like a good solution for you. Englander has a good reputation for a quality product at a reasonable price. Get r dun.


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## doug4k (Jan 11, 2013)

you are on the right track now:cool2:


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## dave_dj1 (Jan 12, 2013)

I go with insulating the walls with high R sheathing in the glue on method. What I did on my block walls that are set up almost exactly like the op's was to put the High R on with furring strips (1x3's screwed into the block) over the top vertically at 16" centers so I could finish the walls. No more cold basement, it's all finished now.


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## haveawoody (Jan 12, 2013)

winsormcbeth,

I would try the electric heater for a couple hours and see what happens first.
No point in buying a nice new stove that might not fix the problem.

Rentall places have electric heaters that could match a woodtove in btu output and rent for maybe 10$ for 1/2 day.
Worth the 10$ experiment IMO.

I bet a lot of your cool basement problem is leaky downstairs windows and the propane furnace air flapper being sloppy with a soft spring.
Two real easy low cost fixes that are sure to decrease wood usage and increase warmth no matter what else you do.


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## haveawoody (Jan 12, 2013)

dave_dj1,

I did mine a couple years ago and wood usage really dropped down.
I figured when i started mine it was going to take months but a week later and it was all done.
Drywall set and finish was probably 80% of the job.

It was much more work getting the bar, pool table, giant tv and stripper pole downstairs than finishing the basement.


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## dave_dj1 (Jan 12, 2013)

haveawoody said:


> dave_dj1,
> 
> I did mine a couple years ago and wood usage really dropped down.
> I figured when i started mine it was going to take months but a week later and it was all done.
> ...



Easy peasy in my house as I have a walk out basement! LOL


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## Dalmatian90 (Jan 12, 2013)

> he Schrader Fireplace stoves were built in 1978-1882 so they are old and not meant to have a gasket around the door which is kind of weird.



Well OK then.

'78 was well into the "Fisher Stove" and airtight era. Fisher licensed their design to a bunch of local shops around the country (and a number of "pirates" and/or local shops that fell out with Fisher and kept making clones, like the Allnighter we had.)

In other words, that Schrader was obsolete POS when it was new, never mind today. And the "state of art" during its day, the airtight stoves, would be made obsolete by 1988 when the first EPA regulations came out.

I'm one of the relatively few folks here who still burns with an old-technology stove, it does OK for me, but at the cost of burning twice as much wood as I expect to burn when I finally upgrade to an EPA stove.


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## winsormcbeth (Jan 21, 2013)

*Problem Solved!*

I got rid of the Schrader Fireplace stove (only paid $275 for it) and got an Englander model 28-3500 wood stove furnace from home depot (Just search for "wood stove furnace). I connected it to my existing duct work and it is heating my whole house no problem! The basement is still cold and thats fine with me because i don't use it. I attached a picture of my setup. With the wood stove furnace you don't need to build a hood, etc as the stove comes with a powerful fan that blows the heat out of an 8 inch hole and you can run duct work straight upstairs to a vent/register or into existing duct work if you have it. Thanks for all the advice!


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## Jules083 (Jan 21, 2013)

That's very similar to my setup, it does work excellent. I don't know why more people don't buy the furnace instead of a stove, except for either looks or power outages.

I would bet that if you insulated the basement walls the heat coming off the stove would keep it somewhat warm. In my opinion the basement is already there, so I use mine to its full potential. I'm in the basement right now working on a dirt bike, and I have a few chains to sharpen sometime tonight.

All typos and misspellings blamed on my phone.


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## kwalshy (Jan 21, 2013)

Congratulations on the furnace.


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## MotorSeven (Jan 22, 2013)

Good deal Win, now go put that 'ole Shrader in the man cav...er ahh Garage:taped:


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