# Sharpen the chains or buy new?



## ForTheArborist (Oct 8, 2009)

I'm just wondering what other guy get their money's worth for chains. I'm starting to believe the the hand held, manual file isn't really the way to go is it?


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## ShoerFast (Oct 8, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> I'm just wondering what other guy get their money's worth for chains. I'm starting to believe the the hand held, manual file isn't really the way to go is it?



Welcome to the site!  

Tons of info using the search function on filing chain. 

I like to use the chain up till there is nothing left to file anymore. Older more used chain gets a lot dirtier jobs.


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## Philbert (Oct 8, 2009)

A sharp chain is the most critical part of the saw. You can: 1) learn to sharpen your self (lots of different ways); 2) pay someone to sharpen your chains; or 3) replace them when dull.

I believe that on this site, the order above would reflect the preference of most members. Some will go as far as custom modifying their chains. Many will repair damaged chains to get more use out of them.

It's your choice.

Philbert


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## zacdog (Oct 8, 2009)

As above the chain has to be sharp. After every 2nd tank, i give it light swipe with a file to keep the edge, and once in a while with the grinder if i've been cutting dirt (not recommended). I use it till it snaps, chain lasts for ages.


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## dingeryote (Oct 8, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> I'm just wondering what other guy get their money's worth for chains. I'm starting to believe the the hand held, manual file isn't really the way to go is it?



Unless ya rock the chain hard several times, or run into crap someone pounded into a tree, a chain should last you a LONG time with plain old hand filing. Having them ground wastes chain life and money, and they usually aren't near as sharp as when hand filed...

Keep at the file, and look at some of the links.
You'll get it if you keep trying, and from there you'll wonder about folks that pay someone else to ruin thier chains.


good luck to ya!!
Dingeryote


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 8, 2009)

Keep it sharp.. it is worth it.

Having said that, I do have an Oregon chain grinder in the shop and around half a dozen chains per saw. If in field and we hit some dirt, or stones -- we simply swap out and then fix when back at shop.

But keep em sharp!


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## Treetom (Oct 8, 2009)

Hand filing puts the best edge on a chain. An inexpensive file guide (the kind you mount on the bar) will help keep the angles consistent. For on-site filing a stump vise is a good investment. At some point a chain will get dull enough that a file is impractical. A grinder will be necessary to get the edge back-- a chain grinder with an actual wheel, mounted on a bench, not the dremel-type battery operated kind. My 2 cents. Daughter kicking me off computer.


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## mckeetree (Oct 8, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> I'm just wondering what other guy get their money's worth for chains. I'm starting to believe the the hand held, manual file isn't really the way to go is it?



Probably not. You could just buy new ones and send the dull never sharpened ones to me for proper disposal.


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## STLfirewood (Oct 8, 2009)

I know a guy that never sharpens chains. He uses them until dull then save them till he has 10. He sells them on e-bay. He buys his new ones at Baileys. He said that he gets close to new prices because the people who buy his chains are use to the prices of chains at a local store. Me I hand sharpen until the chain is almost gone or cuts like crap. I usually get close to 30 cords a chain.

Scott


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## Slvrmple72 (Oct 8, 2009)

To add to what the others have said I strongly recommend you break in a new chain properly by lightly touching it into the ground at high RPM prior to cutting any wood with it. This light coating of dust will help protect it ....

I just cannot do it. I will feel too guilty if taken seriously.

1. Keep your chain sharp.
2. Keep your chain out of the dirt.
3. Sharpen by hand so you get good at it. That way when the jobs taken all day and you need to finish to get paid and you have dulled your chain by sticking it in the dirt you can sharpen it up good enough to finish!
4. Rakers need love too! 
5. Know when to say goodbye. 500# of rusty chains hanging on a bunch of 10d nails in the garage/shed/workshop isn't doing you any good, neither will taking hours to cobble together good chains from several bad ones.
6. Buy a little buy a lot. A reel or a loop whatever is most cost effective.
7. Chain tension, chain tension, chain tension!
8. Do you know where your master cutter is? Do you know what your master cutter is?
9. If you cannot sharpen to save your life find someone who can and pay him extra!!! I have lost two of my friends and darn good sharpeners to cancer. I had a workshop for well over 75 guys on sharpening who had relied on these guys! Some of them only needed to see it done and understand the mechanics involved.
10. Is your file sharp? I keep a big mug of new files at the exact same spot on my workbench next to where I put my coffee mug. I sleep standing up and sharpen my chains that way but every know and then when I go to reach for the coffee I get a sharp file up the nose which is a really bad wake up call!:chainsawguy:-Kevin


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## SINGLE-JACK (Oct 8, 2009)

Slvrmple72 said:


> To add to what the others have said I strongly recommend you break in a new chain properly by lightly touching it into the ground at high RPM prior to cutting any wood with it. This light coating of dust will help protect it ....
> 
> I just cannot do it. I will feel too guilty if taken seriously.
> 
> ...



:agree2:
Rakers are often overlooked. Every Stihl (and others, too) file kit comes with a raker file and guage. Every stroke with the round file will lower the cutting edge slightly. The raker needs to be lowered the same amount or the chain will cut less wood. Use the flat file after you use the round file, check the rakers EVERYTIME you sharpen.

* " ... sharp file up the nose ... "
OUCH!!! I'd have to move my coffee cup!!!*


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## arbor pro (Oct 8, 2009)

I guess I've never hand filed a chain simply because I don't have time in the field to do so. It's quicker for me to swap the dull chain for a sharp one and throw the dull chain on the pile for sharpening.

I have about 80 chains of various sizes that I sharpen with a Stihl grinder during the slow winter season to keep me in supply all summer long. If I wear out chains during the summer or run out of sharp chains, I just go buy a few more.

A grinder may not result in the sharpest chains as compared to hand filing but I can grind 80 chains (both teeth and rakers) ranging in size from 14"-32" in about 6 hours. This method works for me.

The $500 Stihl grinder I use more than pays for itself with a single sharpening of 80 chains. There's a bit of a learning curve to do it right and to keep from overheating smaller chains and taking the temper out of them (been there and done that) but, I am now able to get them pretty sharp with the grinder.


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## B_Turner (Oct 8, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> I guess I've never hand filed a chain simply because I don't have time in the field to do so. It's quicker for me to swap the dull chain for a sharp one and throw the dull chain on the pile for sharpening.
> 
> I have about 80 chains of various sizes that I sharpen with a Stihl grinder during the slow winter season to keep me in supply all summer long. If I wear out chains during the summer or run out of sharp chains, I just go buy a few more.
> 
> ...



I rarely hand file either. I have many loops of each bar size and I find it much productive to swap in a fresh and very sharp chain. I seldom see someone in the field take the time to do a really good job to file, as generally there is much time pressure for them to hurry up.

Also I feel if done correctly, grinding does not need to waste very much cutter, although admittedly that is not the norm in a shop who generally have young monkeys in the back do the sharpening.

Depends a little on your grinder, and I am lucky enough to have a 510 and a PS. Ahhh, fresh square off the grinder in the morning...


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## wood4heat (Oct 8, 2009)

Hand filing isn't all that difficult. Watched my dad file a couple teeth with one of those cheap wood handled guides and that was all it took. I touch my chains up often and "try" to keep them out of the dirt and they cut great. I can usually get a days worth of cutting out of a chain but will touch them up in the field if I feel like they need it. Probably not practical for professionals to stop & sharpen but for a casual wood scrounge like me it works.

Takes 10-15min using these:


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 8, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> I guess I've never hand filed a chain simply because I don't have time in the field to do so. It's quicker for me to swap the dull chain for a sharp one and throw the dull chain on the pile for sharpening.
> 
> I have about 80 chains of various sizes that I sharpen with a Stihl grinder during the slow winter season to keep me in supply all summer long. If I wear out chains during the summer or run out of sharp chains, I just go buy a few more.
> 
> ...




This is clearly the way to go pro both time and cost wise. I don't have 80-100 chains yet, but I will by next year. 

Thanks for the tips, fellas. I appreciate that you bring that know how of yours out from the shadows of your companies that many other people would never conjure up. Heck, we could make a "how to book" just on chains or at least one chapter from just this thread. 

Back to the grind again,
FTA


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## lego1970 (Oct 8, 2009)

Depends on the day and how I feel. I prefer to hand sharpen the chain a few times then toss it out rather then always reaching for a new chain, but if I'm tired, it's close to the end of the day, or my hand/foremarms are already cramping for the day, I'll just swap for a new chain. Even when doing tree work full time, I seldom keep more then two chains with me. I can't stand the clutter. I'm ok with sharpening by hand but after a few times I notice it not only doesn't cut as good, but doesn't stay sharp for long. I'm probably messing up with the rake part of it, because I seldom check that. The few times I've tried filing down the rake, it seemed to either make no difference, or I filed too much causing the chainsaw to contantly bite instead of smoothly cutting. Practice makes perfect and if I did tree work constantly, I'd probably approach the whole chain sharpening thing differently, but for what I do I just count on buying a new chain every few jobs.


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## Philbert (Oct 8, 2009)

lego1970 said:


> Depends on the day and how I feel. I prefer to hand sharpen the chain a few times then toss it out rather then always reaching for a new chain . .



Again, a lot of personal preference.

One advantage of a grinder is that the chain does not need to be mounted on the saw. So if you run through some chains, and have a pile of them (or box, or nail hanging on the wall), you can pull them together on a rainy day and bring them back into shape pretty quickly. Touch them up with a file in the field, but bring them in for heavier work and to get things lined up again.

Kind of like what Arbor Pro said, but without having to buy 80 chains. You could do it once a week or so. Pay for your grinder pretty quickly.

Save chains, save money, make productive use of down time, etc.

Put the sharpened ones in heavy duty / freezer Zip-Lock bags for storage until re-use.

Philbert


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## BRCCArborist (Oct 8, 2009)

I always hand file unless I rock the chain. Everyone has their own way to sharpen, it can take a while to find your groove, but once you do, you can really get great results for much cheaper.


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## Tree Pig (Oct 8, 2009)

not for nothing but this question is kinda like... Should I put more gas in my saw or just go buy a new one? Of course sharpen the chain. Learn to do it yourself for general maintenance and have it done at the shop if its too bad. Or spend money on a decent grinder. If you cut a lot a good grinder will pay for itself in no time. Even better find a friend with a STIHL grinder and get him to do them for you. caugh caugh... Thanks STEVE.


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## asetree (Oct 8, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> A grinder may not result in the sharpest chains as compared to hand filing but I can grind 80 chains (both teeth and rakers) ranging in size from 14"-32" in about 6 hours. This method works for me.



80 chains in six hours including rakers? 4.5 mins a chain with no water breaks.........what is your secret?


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## ozzy42 (Oct 8, 2009)

I use a battery powered dremel.

Ground saws :about every 2nd to 3rd job,takes about 5minutes per saw.

Climb saw :about once a week. It stays pretty sharp being in the air.

Sharpen,and knock the guides down till apr. half the tooth is gone.


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## treemandan (Oct 8, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> not for nothing but this question is kinda like... Should I put more gas in my saw or just go buy a new one? Of course sharpen the chain. Learn to do it yourself for general maintenance and have it done at the shop if its too bad. Or spend money on a decent grinder. If you cut a lot a good grinder will pay for itself in no time. Even better find a friend with a STIHL grinder and get him to do them for you. caugh caugh... Thanks STEVE.



A new saw comes with a new chain and if you wheel and deal they might even gas it . Its a no-brainer.


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## treemandan (Oct 8, 2009)

I caught a broken 20 chain in the face. It had some hours on it.


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## fishercat (Oct 8, 2009)

*hey ,i never said Stihl didn't make good stuff!*



Stihl-O-Matic said:


> not for nothing but this question is kinda like... Should I put more gas in my saw or just go buy a new one? Of course sharpen the chain. Learn to do it yourself for general maintenance and have it done at the shop if its too bad. Or spend money on a decent grinder. If you cut a lot a good grinder will pay for itself in no time. Even better find a friend with a STIHL grinder and get him to do them for you. caugh caugh... Thanks STEVE.



they just don't make good rear handle saws! :hmm3grin2orange:

i can sharpen a chain with a grinder and take very little off.Stil-O-Matic can attest to this.then again,i'm not selling new chain either.the only time i take a lot off is when the corner is rounded off from hitting metal or stone.

hand filing in the field is great and i do it often.you can not keep the teeth the same length forever by hand filing.eventually it will start cutting crooked.grinders get all the teeth back to the same length.i have met few dealers who sharpen chains correctly.they either don't know what they are doing or they want to sell you new chain soon.


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## gr8scott72 (Oct 9, 2009)

I've been real lucky. My neighbor has a shop behind his house and he sharpens things. Anything. Chipper knives, chainsaw chains, bandsaw blades, stump grinder teeth. He's in his seventies and he's only ever had 2 jobs his whole life. Takes great pride in his work.

I did about 3 hours of skid steer work for him and now I get all my stuff sharpened for free.

I usually touch up the chainsaw chains every other tank (every 4th or 5th on the thirsty 394xp) and if I hit something I just throw a different one on there and then send the messed up one to my neighbor. 

I just got my ripping chain back from him (60" bar, full comp) and it looks great. Can't wait to go to work dulling it back out. lol


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## madmax (Oct 9, 2009)

I agree with Shoerfast, do the search, lots of info to be found here, and its a pretty cool feeling when everything "clicks" and you realize that you can file a chain that will cut faster than new. Good Luck


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## arbor pro (Oct 9, 2009)

asetree said:


> 80 chains in six hours including rakers? 4.5 mins a chain with no water breaks.........what is your secret?



Not every chain needs the rakers taken down each sharpening - probably every 2nd or 3rd sharpening depending on how much tooth you grind off.

Smaller 14" chains take very little time to sharpen. Of my 80 chains, probably 50 are 14" as that's the size I use on both of my 200Ts and my HT101 ext saw. I can sharpen one of those in just a couple of minutes.

Thing is - when you're grinding 80 chains at a time, you do all of one size chain first, then the next size and so on. Then you switch wheels and do rakers. You get pretty methodical at it.

The bigger chains might take 4-5 minutes - maybe a bit longer if doing rakers too but it all averages out to about 4-5 minutes a chain I suppose.

The key is a comfortable stool with a backrest so you can sit down. There's no way my back would take 6 hours of standing over a sharpener.


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## bruce6670 (Oct 9, 2009)

madmax said:


> I agree with Shoerfast, do the search, lots of info to be found here, and its a pretty cool feeling when everything "clicks" and you realize that you can file a chain that will cut faster than new. Good Luck



I have heard many people say that they can sharpen a chain by hand and have it be sharper than out of the box,but I have yet to see it.

I have a local guy who is pretty good with the grinder so I let him do it for me.I only use the file if I"m cutting dirty wood and I need to sharpen more often.

Practice with the file so you can do it yourself if necessary but keep a couple extra sharp chains with you just in case you need them.

Good luck.


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## madmax (Oct 10, 2009)

bruce6670 said:


> I have heard many people say that they can sharpen a chain by hand and have it be sharper than out of the box,but I have yet to see it.
> 
> Practice with the file so you can do it yourself if necessary but keep a couple extra sharp chains with you just in case you need them.
> 
> Good luck.


 LOL, wish I could be there when you have your as..., I mean chains handed to ya by someone who can use a file.


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 10, 2009)

That still deluxe sharpener for the bench is the way to go. The only price I've seen for one is $629, so not yet. That thing is ideal though. Need one.


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## newsawtooth (Oct 10, 2009)

Just get the Oregon grinder and save yourself a few hundred, they are functional equivalents.


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## bruce6670 (Oct 10, 2009)

madmax said:


> LOL, wish I could be there when you have your as..., I mean chains handed to ya by someone who can use a file.



I knew that was coming.

I'm not saying it's not possible but most guys can't file a chain as good as an out of the box chain.


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 10, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> I'm just wondering what other guy get their money's worth for chains. I'm starting to believe the the hand held, manual file isn't really the way to go is it?


Listen if your kidding than your funny , but on the other hand if your serious than WTF are you saying , manual hand files IMO are the best way to maintain your chain and if your gonna pay to sharpen them or replace them when there dull then you will be climbing alot of trees for free, check the pitch line two strokes clockwise on each tooth and get back to work..


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 10, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> Listen if your kidding than your funny , but on the other hand if your serious than WTF are you saying , manual hand files IMO are the best way to maintain your chain and if your gonna pay to sharpen them or replace them when there dull then you will be climbing alot of trees for free, check the pitch line two strokes clockwise on each tooth and get back to work..



Manual filing is the best thing to do for a chain (if done by an experienced person) - but just quick touch up in field is all we do.. then use grinder in shop. We used to file by hand for everything, and it does work and can do an excellent job.. but time is money so I ended up with a grinder. But both are good if done properly. Problem with grinders, although we love em, is they can damage a chain very quickly if you don't know what you are doing.. and most will kill a couple of chains before they get good at it!!


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 10, 2009)

TreeClimber57 said:


> Manual filing is the best thing to do for a chain (if done by an experienced person) - but just quick touch up in field is all we do.. then use grinder in shop. We used to file by hand for everything, and it does work and can do an excellent job.. but time is money so I ended up with a grinder. But both are good if done properly. Problem with grinders, although we love em, is they can damage a chain very quickly if you don't know what you are doing.. and most will kill a couple of chains before they get good at it!!



This guy needs to keep it simple if he starts with a grinder, he will probably mess up the link itself and you know what happens when the chain breaks those things come off like they were fired from a gun..


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 11, 2009)

newsawtooth said:


> Just get the Oregon grinder and save yourself a few hundred, they are functional equivalents.



These don't look bad for a few hundred bucks, http://www.right-tool.com/orchainsawch.html. I doubt they are any less capable,
and at a competition business's price compared to the Stihl. 

This is my plan. I'm going to keep buying too many chains all the time until I've got racks full of them. On my off days, I'll put the grinding wheel in motion, and set myself up for a season of dropping dull chains at the job sites without the rest of it. That's a business plan which is better than an excuse to sit around and quack about nonsense at the job sites....err, I mean instead of taking time out to sharpen chains when I should be using them.


Tree Climber 101, you've never had adults for parents or employers before, have you? I'm just saying that's how it seems because you can't even fathom by any means how I, _of all people_, could manage to sharpen a chain without resulting in stripping my face off the bone by a popped link.  I don't think the folks you are used to encountering in your woods are.... Anyway, I'm off track now wasting my time on other people's subjective assumptions about other people's subjective assumption, and that is worse than your wick wack alone.


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## wravenant (Oct 11, 2009)

*Files*



ForTheAction said:


> I'm just wondering what other guy get their money's worth for chains. I'm starting to believe the the hand held, manual file isn't really the way to go is it?



Hi there. I have ben climbing for many years, and now run my own company in Cape Town, South Africa. I have found that there is no other way than filing by hand, with the grade measure on top, so you can keep your angle right.

Nothing beats it, it takes some practice, but you can use a chain forever, and it is cheap, and the sharpest way.

It takes some time to learn and to get use to. Ask someone to teach you the right method, and then practice, but once you have it, it is quick and easy. It only het hard when you are having 40 inch bars, and so on, to sharpen.

THe other very important thing is, to use calipers to measure the teeth, as all the teeth needs to be the same size, otherwise even if you sharpen it, it qont cut right.


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## madmax (Oct 12, 2009)

bruce6670 said:


> I knew that was coming.
> 
> I'm not saying it's not possible but most guys can't file a chain as good as an out of the box chain.


 Agreed 100%, but most guys could if they would give it an honest try.


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 12, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> This guy needs to keep it simple if he starts with a grinder, he will probably mess up the link itself and you know what happens when the chain breaks those things come off like they were fired from a gun..



I have only ever had one chain break, and it was on a 660, I did not actually see it but nobody was hurt. . 

Running almost a dozen Stihls every day, and been doing it for just over 30 years now, if it has worked this far then my guess would be it might continue that way for a while longer. (actually in the mid to late '80's I was supervising a team - we had over 20 running chain saws, and half a dozen running skidders, Nodwell's, etc. Doing that job for almost seven years, and do not recall breaking a single chain - and they were all ground chains) Grinders work well assuming you have some clue on how to use them. 

If you have never used a grinder before then I guess you might take off too much, the trick is to take off very tiny amounts with grinder - keep all links the same angle and size - and DO NOT OVERHEAT the chain.. short quick bursts is all you need.

However, it is likely best to start with a file and learn to do it well.. then migrate to a grinder if you have the volume and need to.


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 12, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> These don't look bad for a few hundred bucks, http://www.right-tool.com/orchainsawch.html. I doubt they are any less capable, and at a competition business's price compared to the Stihl. .



Oregon does make good grinders, can not speak for the 510A though. The 511A and 511AX are worth looking at for sure.


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## lmbeachy (Oct 12, 2009)

Maybe i'm not doing something right, don't know. But I have never taken a chain to the shop to get it sharpened. Always hand filed my chains and hand file my chains for the mill saw. Use them till there are nothing by nobs left for teeth. So I can't compare them to chains sharpened on a grinder, but they cut real good for me and last a long time.


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 12, 2009)

lmbeachy said:


> Maybe i'm not doing something right, don't know. But I have never taken a chain to the shop to get it sharpened. Always hand filed my chains and hand file my chains for the mill saw. Use them till there are nothing by nobs left for teeth. So I can't compare them to chains sharpened on a grinder, but they cut real good for me and last a long time.



And they will. And I would venture to bet that a good hand sharpened chain is difficult if not impossible to beat. Keep doing what you are. We only field sharpen to keep edge on and then anything really dull goes to shop. This is really more a matter of economics vs what is the best. A good grinder does a very good job.. but I suspect that even a commercially ground chain (ie: a brand new one even) would find it hard to beat the best hand sharpened chains out there. Same as most any hand done craft, any machine can come close but difficult to beat a good hand/craftsman. Keep it up.. it works. Like I said we do grinding simply because it is faster and does a good job... (one other point.. some have tough time sharpening by hand.. of course the same folks may find it tough to sharpen with a grinder too!)


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 12, 2009)

lmbeachy said:


> Maybe i'm not doing something right, don't know. But I have never taken a chain to the shop to get it sharpened. Always hand filed my chains and hand file my chains for the mill saw. Use them till there are nothing by nobs left for teeth. So I can't compare them to chains sharpened on a grinder, but they cut real good for me and last a long time.



You're doing it right then. It takes practice but once you've developed your technique your good to go.


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 12, 2009)

TreeClimber57 said:


> I have only ever had one chain break, and it was on a 660, I did not actually see it but nobody was hurt. .
> 
> Running almost a dozen Stihls every day, and been doing it for just over 30 years now, if it has worked this far then my guess would be it might continue that way for a while longer. (actually in the mid to late '80's I was supervising a team - we had over 20 running chain saws, and half a dozen running skidders, Nodwell's, etc. Doing that job for almost seven years, and do not recall breaking a single chain - and they were all ground chains) Grinders work well assuming you have some clue on how to use them.
> 
> ...



You must do well for yourself because this reads like good, useful advice.


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 12, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> These don't look bad for a few hundred bucks, http://www.right-tool.com/orchainsawch.html. I doubt they are any less capable,
> and at a competition business's price compared to the Stihl.
> 
> This is my plan. I'm going to keep buying too many chains all the time until I've got racks full of them. On my off days, I'll put the grinding wheel in motion, and set myself up for a season of dropping dull chains at the job sites without the rest of it. That's a business plan which is better than an excuse to sit around and quack about nonsense at the job sites....err, I mean instead of taking time out to sharpen chains when I should be using them.
> ...


Your sick , but pretty funny so hopefully you don't kill yourself you have something to offer here :censored:er


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## ntsarborist (Oct 14, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> I'm just wondering what other guy get their money's worth for chains. I'm starting to believe the the hand held, manual file isn't really the way to go is it?



hahaha, get one of those roller file guides that husqavarna sells and the correct files for your saw. they sell the kits with the guide, 2 files and a file for the rakers and a nice file handle. use that chain till there is nothing left to file. if sharpened properly the chain will cut almost like new all the way thru the chains life. dont sharpen it on the machine it wont be as sharp as an edge. fileing is the way to go


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 15, 2009)

Hell, I was talking to my lawn and garden mechanic down the street from me today. I asked him about the chains and getting them sharpened. Not sure if he didn't try to shamboozle me.

He says that sharpening chains with a file is just to keep the cutters on angle, but really it's not sharpening them. This just keeps things inline for a while, but theeeeen we need to have them ground to actually do the sharpening. After that the process starts over with the file. 

I'm not sure, but based on the smoke signals from the AS tribe, the guy was just trying to sell more chains and grinding service. 

He also said that lowering the rakers is not necessary. This is coming from a guy that has been in the biz for much more than one decade. He makes chains.

I love to find out people are under estimating me. Let the games pursuit.
:greenchainsaw::spam:


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## BlackenedTimber (Oct 15, 2009)

your lawn mechanic dude is out of his tree.

filing rakers is definately important, if you expect your chain to cut correctly.

you can ABSOLUTELY sharpen a chain with a file, to within 1-2 percent of it's original cutting ability with a little practice. Some claim to actually be able to make the cutter tooth sharper than factory, but I havent experienced that. It is true that you can use a file to square up the angle of your cutters, which is important, unless you want your blockwood to look like potato chips, but you can also absolutely sharpen your chain with a file.

how many lawn dudes are out in the middle of the woods, grinding loggers' chains everytime the cutter teeth need to be dressed...? zero, it's done with a file.


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## TimberMcPherson (Oct 15, 2009)

Its each to there own, either way can work.

I had a couple of grinders but found them to be a PITA and got rid of them. I hand sharpen all my saws, it can be done anywhere at any time and the chains seem to last longer. I have a simple system that aside from my 88's and 3120 I have 4 different chains for all my saws so I dont have to carry many spares. 14inch on the top handles, 18 325 on my saws up to 62cc, 22 3/8 and 36 3/8 on the 44's and 66's. With a stump vice even the 36 doesnt take long, but the 60inch does get a little tough if you hit a nail.


Never any doubt what size chain and what saw it goes on. Im getting rid of my 394 and 395 I inherited with a new business to keep the system simple. (and about 9 echos)


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 15, 2009)

TimberMcPherson said:


> Its each to there own, either way can work.
> 
> I had a couple of grinders but found them to be a PITA and got rid of them. I hand sharpen all my saws, it can be done anywhere at any time and the chains seem to last longer. I have a simple system that aside from my 88's and 3120 I have 4 different chains for all my saws so I dont have to carry many spares. 14inch on the top handles, 18 325 on my saws up to 62cc, 22 3/8 and 36 3/8 on the 44's and 66's. With a stump vice even the 36 doesnt take long, but the 60inch does get a little tough if you hit a nail.
> 
> ...



How much are those 2 Huskies worth?


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## gr8scott72 (Oct 15, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> How much are those 2 Huskies worth?



Good, used 394s or 395s will go for $500 - $700 here in the states.

Shipping would kill you on his. Did you notice his location?


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## Philbert (Oct 15, 2009)

BlackenedTimber said:


> your lawn mechanic dude is out of his tree..



+ 2

Philbert


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## outofmytree (Oct 15, 2009)

BlackenedTimber said:


> *your lawn mechanic dude is out of his tree.*
> filing rakers is definately important, if you expect your chain to cut correctly.
> 
> you can ABSOLUTELY sharpen a chain with a file, to within 1-2 percent of it's original cutting ability with a little practice. Some claim to actually be able to make the cutter tooth sharper than factory, but I havent experienced that. It is true that you can use a file to square up the angle of your cutters, which is important, unless you want your blockwood to look like potato chips, but you can also absolutely sharpen your chain with a file.
> ...



Ahem.....:monkey:


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 15, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> He says that sharpening chains with a file is just to keep the cutters on angle, but really it's not sharpening them. This just keeps things inline for a while, but theeeeen we need to have them ground to actually do the sharpening. After that the process starts over with the file.



Well either he does not have a clue about chains, or he is simply a good salesman trying to sell his wares. I have both files, and a chain grinder. The chain grinder will do a good job, but can be misused in wrong hands and spoil a chain quickly. The file is slower, but it too can do some damage!! However, the file, if done diligently will keep the edge and proper angle on the chain. And the file can do a job equally as good as a chain grinder, and in fact I would dare say that a really good person on a file can out perform at least 80% of the chain grinders around today. Either one can do a good job.. but it is the person behind the tool that makes it a great job.



ForTheAction said:


> He also said that lowering the rakers is not necessary. This is coming from a guy that has been in the biz for much more than one decade. He makes chains.



Well, initial thought is your contact here is full of crap. On the other hand, following his sales pitch, if you follow his advise it will likely work. If you only hand file until they are dull - and then take to him and have ground it will work. Note though.. not taking the raker down will eventually limit the bite of your tooth.. making even a perfectly sharp tooth appear duller. So.. if you follow this advise even the best filer will need to take in and have ground. Good instructions if he wants to keep business coming in I guess.. but still full of crap.


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## madmax (Oct 16, 2009)

TreeClimber57 said:


> Well either he does not have a clue about chains, or he is simply a good salesman trying to sell his wares. I have both files, and a chain grinder. The chain grinder will do a good job, but can be misused in wrong hands and spoil a chain quickly. The file is slower, but it too can do some damage!! However, the file, if done diligently will keep the edge and proper angle on the chain. And the file can do a job equally as good as a chain grinder, and in fact I would dare say that a really good person on a file can out perform at least 80% of the chain grinders around today. Either one can do a good job.. but it is the person behind the tool that makes it a great job.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, initial thought is your contact here is full of crap. On the other hand, following his sales pitch, if you follow his advise it will likely work. If you only hand file until they are dull - and then take to him and have ground it will work. Note though.. not taking the raker down will eventually limit the bite of your tooth.. making even a perfectly sharp tooth appear duller. So.. if you follow this advise even the best filer will need to take in and have ground. Good instructions if he wants to keep business coming in I guess.. but still full of crap.


 Good post!


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 16, 2009)

ntsarborist said:


> get one of those roller file guides that husqavarna sells and the correct files for your saw. they sell the kits with the guide, 2 files and a file for the rakers and a nice file handle.



Those are excellent tools, often wondered why others did not copy the idea.


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## TotalNZ (Oct 17, 2009)

There's alot of talk on this site about the need for grinding.
I fit a new chain, sharpen it with a file before i use it then continue sharpening with a file until the cutters start breaking off then fit a new one. No grinding ever necessary.
I carry 2 chains incase i break one during the day ( which does happen especially with oregon chain )


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 17, 2009)

I have never used a grinder for anything else than removing a bur or taking down rakers ,I can file a chain even if is hit with a rock or metal with some patience to near its original sharp , and a new chain can be cut to be sharper than originally but often cuts the life of the chain considerably , practice will save you time and money a 30 inch chain should take no longer than 20 minutes..


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## fishercat (Oct 17, 2009)

*i file rakers with a file.*

as for sharpness with a grinder,if you can't get them razor sharp with a grinder,you don't know what your doing or the grinding wheel is junk.


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## bruce6670 (Oct 17, 2009)

TotalNZ said:


> There's alot of talk on this site about the need for grinding.
> I fit a new chain, sharpen it with a file before i use it then continue sharpening with a file until the cutters start breaking off then fit a new one. No grinding ever necessary.
> I carry 2 chains incase i break one during the day ( which does happen especially with oregon chain )



What are you cutting ? Breaking off teeth doesn't sound fun.:jawdrop:


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## TotalNZ (Oct 18, 2009)

bruce6670 said:


> What are you cutting ? Breaking off teeth doesn't sound fun.:jawdrop:


Mostly plantation Radiata Pine, it's a soft wood and cuts easy. The cutters break off when they're sharpened back past the witness marks and there's not much of them left.


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 18, 2009)

I disagree with the raker filing , there are pitch marks on them aswell , and when the chain is halfway to the tooth cut mark you remove the raker to the line and when the chain is near trash than completely remove the raker ..


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