# Fallers



## rmihalek (Apr 15, 2010)

Other than good ol' Dwayne, there hasn't been much falling action on AxMen. I was shocked to see JM Browning send his logger guys into the woods with chainsaws to fall trees one or two episodes ago. Apparently the 5 or 6 guys ended up falling 576 trees in 8 hours, which works out to something like one tree every 6 minutes for each guy for 8 straight hours. I didn't think that the guys who worked the rigging would also fall trees. They never showed that before (except for the reverse: that time Dwayne had to set chokers and was cussin' the whole time).


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## mimilkman1 (Apr 16, 2010)

Jay is one heck of a faller. It looks like DJ and Cody know their way around a saw as well (at least television made it look that way). :hmm3grin2orange:


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## DJ4wd (Apr 16, 2010)

DJ and his new teeth lol, gotta love that guy.


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## logging22 (Apr 16, 2010)

DJ4wd said:


> DJ and his new teeth lol, gotta love that guy.



Yep. The wife calls him fang. HAHA


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## GASoline71 (Apr 16, 2010)

DJ4wd said:


> DJ and his new teeth lol, gotta love that guy.



I would hire that cat to work my crew anyday... 

Gary


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## Gologit (Apr 17, 2010)

Of all the episodes I watched Levy was the faller that seemed to have it together the best. No theatrics, no BS, just got out there and put the wood on the ground.


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## GASoline71 (Apr 17, 2010)

Actually Dewayne had his #### in one sock too when it came to putting BF on the ground... 

Gary


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## Gologit (Apr 18, 2010)

GASoline71 said:


> Actually Dewayne had his #### in one sock too when it came to putting BF on the ground...
> 
> Gary



Yup...he was good. I'd feel comfortable working with him.


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## NeoTree (Apr 18, 2010)

rmihalek said:


> I was shocked to see JM Browning send his logger guys into the woods with chainsaws to fall trees



I think they just like to feature certain people on the show, I bet the producers had somthing to do with sending cody and dj into fell trees.


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## Nosmo (Apr 18, 2010)

*Darrell*

How about Darrell who was on the show a couple years ago. I forget the company he worked with in Oregon. During a bad windstorm he was the one who cleared the roadway on the way to town while his wife was driving the pickup.

Nosmo


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## NeoTree (Apr 18, 2010)

Nosmo said:


> How about Darrell who was on the show a couple years ago. I forget the company he worked with in Oregon. During a bad windstorm he was the one who cleared the roadway on the way to town while his wife was driving the pickup.
> 
> Nosmo



I Do remember that, i think he worked for Pihl. He dropped that big pine next to his house during that storm too.


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## bigsilver (Apr 18, 2010)

Darrell was the Side Rod for the Gustafson crew.


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## DJ4wd (Apr 18, 2010)

Yeah I remember that guy. I liked him to, and I remember him getting mad when someone stole the rope or something. They have taken the workers off and inserted the actors and idiots in more often than not, now a days.


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## porch monkey (Apr 19, 2010)

Interesting to watch the fallers with those big trees. I growed up around the pulpwood business and wood products is still the #1 industry in the county where I live but theres not many (or NONE) artists around here like those PNW fallers. I do business witha pretty big saw shop for my area but 460's is the biggest thing he keeps on the shelf all the time and 36" bars is the biggest he stocks. Most of the falling around here anymore is done by a guy named John Deere. 

I think I was pretty tough when I was a young man but I dont think I was ever tough enough to do that work in those conditions at that elevation. You guys that work up there in those conditions are men to be admired for your talent and stamina

I ahve a question for you PNW fallers:

Do the fallers do some limbing on the stuff they can get to?? Or is there a guy that just comes back and does the limbing after the fallers move on??


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## cassandrasdaddy (Apr 19, 2010)

*four hours*

they dropped those 500 trees in an afternoon thats cooking


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## slowp (Apr 19, 2010)

porch monkey said:


> Interesting to watch the fallers with those big trees. I growed up around the pulpwood business and wood products is still the #1 industry in the county where I live but theres not many (or NONE) artists around here like those PNW fallers. I do business witha pretty big saw shop for my area but 460's is the biggest thing he keeps on the shelf all the time and 36" bars is the biggest he stocks. Most of the falling around here anymore is done by a guy named John Deere.
> 
> I think I was pretty tough when I was a young man but I dont think I was ever tough enough to do that work in those conditions at that elevation. You guys that work up there in those conditions are men to be admired for your talent and stamina
> 
> ...



They don't limb when there is a processor on the landing to do so. One exception is when the landowner wants the slash left in the unit, then the fallers buck and limb. They usually do it all themselves and in one trip. They walk on the tree, with a logger/spencer tape unspooling behind so they can get the right lengths, and limb on their way. When the experienced guys do it, it looks easy and smooth.


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## Gologit (Apr 20, 2010)

slowp said:


> They don't limb when there is a processor on the landing to do so. One exception is when the landowner wants the slash left in the unit, then the fallers buck and limb. They usually do it all themselves and in one trip. They walk on the tree, with a logger/spencer tape unspooling behind so they can get the right lengths, and limb on their way. When the experienced guys do it, it looks easy and smooth.



Another exception is if you're in timber too big for the processor. In that case the fallers will limb everything they can and a knot bumper will finish it up when it gets to the landing. Also, in the bigger stuff, fallers usually buck their own timber to specified lengths. There are set lengths for each species, according to what the mill that's buying the wood wants.

A processor is much faster, and cheaper in the long run in small timber. Plus it gives us big slash piles where we can hide all of our burnable garage from people like Slowp.


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## slowp (Apr 20, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Another exception is if you're in timber too big for the processor. In that case the fallers will limb everything they can and a knot bumper will finish it up when it gets to the landing. Also, in the bigger stuff, fallers usually buck their own timber to specified lengths. There are set lengths for each species, according to what the mill that's buying the wood wants.
> 
> A processor is much faster, and cheaper in the long run in small timber. Plus it gives us big slash piles where we can hide all of our burnable garage from people like Slowp.



People Like Slowp often take a close look at that huge slash pile. Sometimes the pile is not burned because there is a perceived idea that there is a shortage of hidey holes for chipmunks. Also for some reason, the people on the landing will think that steel cable burns. They will then have to make a trip back to the landing after the pile is burned and pick up the cable.  They may also have to make a contribution to relieve the national debt.


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## Gologit (Apr 20, 2010)

slowp said:


> People Like Slowp often take a close look at that huge slash pile. Sometimes the pile is not burned because there is a perceived idea that there is a shortage of hidey holes for chipmunks. Also for some reason, the people on the landing will think that steel cable burns. They will then have to make a trip back to the landing after the pile is burned and pick up the cable.  They may also have to make a contribution to relieve the national debt.



Oooops. :taped: We wouldn't really do that. Uh uh. Nope. Not ever. Well, not cable anyway. The dumbest guy on my crew knows that cable won't burn...you dig a hole with the Cat and bury _that_ stuff. It's best to do it on a side hill...helps hold the soil together and prevents erosion. :monkey:

That other stuff, old cardboard boxes, empty snoose cans, the occasional stray fuel filter, rags, and old gloves is actually bio degradable in a sense. You set it on fire, the birds fly through the smoke, the birds choke up and die, and they rot back into the soil. Ashes to ashes...that kind of thing. :greenchainsaw:


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## mtfallsmikey (Apr 21, 2010)

bigsilver said:


> Darrell was the Side Rod for the Gustafson crew.



What happened with Gustafson anyway? Still in the biz?


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## slowp (Apr 21, 2010)

The occasional aerosol paint can keeps the burning guys awake and provides morale building for both crews. Dynamite is considered overdoing it. Those landing piles can burn so hot, you can't get close enough to cook a hotdog.


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## porch monkey (Apr 21, 2010)

slowp said:


> Those landing piles can burn so hot, you can't get close enough to cook a hotdog.


Especially when Gologit scatters a few buckets of old drained hydraulic fluid in there huh?? lol

No offense to slowp, but sounds like you guys up there have got some of the worst possible environment to work in - the gubmint looking over your shoulder. Around here its pretty much all private land and timber company land and the guys mostly just have to worry about the county commissioner griping because they tear up the roads. I dont think the ones I know would put up with it very long with the federales looking over their shoulder.

thanks for the info guys. And you be gentle with em slowp.lol


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## slowp (Apr 21, 2010)

> No offense to slowp, but sounds like you guys up there have got some of the worst possible environment to work in - the gubmint looking over your shoulder. Around here its pretty much all private land and timber company land and the guys mostly just have to worry about the county commissioner griping because they tear up the roads. I dont think the ones I know would put up with it very long with the federales looking over their shoulder


.

Poor boys. They are always checked on. Weyerhauser has foresters out checking as do most big private companies. The State has foresters out harrassing them. It is a way of life. 

Let me see, in the past I've found them cutting the wrong trees, a little bit of real timber theft, running machinery up and down creeks, letting antifreeze drain into a creek, damaging leave trees, etc. 

Most of that was in the past. The surviving loggers are a smarter bunch and try to make things look good and follow the rules. But every once in a while...

And they'll complain about me. I have had several who demanded I be fired. 
That's part of the job...and it goes both ways.


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## Gologit (Apr 21, 2010)

porch monkey said:


> Especially when Gologit scatters a few buckets of old drained hydraulic fluid in there huh?? lol
> 
> No offense to slowp, but sounds like you guys up there have got some of the worst possible environment to work in - the gubmint looking over your shoulder. Around here its pretty much all private land and timber company land and the guys mostly just have to worry about the county commissioner griping because they tear up the roads. I dont think the ones I know would put up with it very long with the federales looking over their shoulder.
> 
> thanks for the info guys. And you be gentle with em slowp.lol



One of the reasons we have so much oversight and regulation is because of some of the things we did in "the good old days". A lot of the things I joked about in my other post were common practice then but would probably get you arrested today. And probably should, too.

Changing oil in the Cat? Dump it on the ground. Major hydraulic oil leaks or fuel spills? Cover it up and forget it. Stream siltation? Ignore it. Running Cats in the creeks and rivers? Hell, there's lots of salmon, they'll spawn somewhere. Erosion control? Just move up the hill a little. This stuff doesn't work today.

For far too many years we made mistakes and allowed ourselves the easy way out of any situation. Those days are gone.

Now, partly because of our actions in the past, we have a tremendous number of government people watching every move we make. Some of these people, like Slowp, are sensible and practical and apply logic and common sense to their enforcement duties. They realize that logging is a tough game and, within the scope of the regulations they're obliged to enforce, will work with us and generally allow us to get our logging done in a timely and profitable manner.

Sadly, people like Slowp are in the minority. A lot of people of her age, generation, and mind set are retiring from the government now. In their place we're seeing a lot of young, well educated, dedicated, ambitious people.,.,.who know absolutely nothing about logging. Oh, they studied it in school, and watched it from a distance, but they wouldn't know a choker from a tail wrapper. They don't really _want_ to know, either. That's the bad part.

People like Slowp will work with us, suggest better ways of doing things, tell us when we're stepping over the line, and clobber us if we try to run any shoddy games. Fair enough. The new people coming in, in any situation they're not sure of or are unfamiliar with, will just apply the rules exactly as spelled out with no thought for practicality and efficiency. Their answer to any question is either "No" or "I'll check on it and get back to you". Don't hold your breath waiting. The government people with common sense are leaving...the ones with rule books and the notion that all loggers are evil are arriving. This is called progress.

I do most of my work on private ground, some of it mine and some of it other people's, and as stewards of that ground we take good care of it. We take care of it because it's the right thing to do. We resent it when somebody with no real stake in the game tells us what to do but, even on our own ground, they can and they will. Do we like it? Hell no. Do we have to put up with it? Yes we do.


Sorry, Porch...this turned into a rant. You asked a valid question and got a lot of screaming and yelling in return. But this is what we deal with out here. Some of it we brought on ourselves, some of it we don 't deserve at all. But it's here. It's not all that bad. As time goes on we find ways to deal with it and if we want to log we better get real good at dealing with it.

Now...I have to box up some old fuel filters, double wrapped in leak proof plastic, properly labeled, and take them to the government approved disposal area.


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## mtfallsmikey (Apr 21, 2010)

You should see the EPA's "recommended" 15-step procedure for cleanup/disposal of florescent light bulbs I have to follow....


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## slowp (Apr 21, 2010)

Under those big old yarders? Well, they changed fluids in them too. After they would pull out, there'd be a large oil slick. The stick of dynomite was not made up. Landings sometimes had to have rock shot to make a flat spot, explosives were "lost". Sometimes they were "found" during the broadcast burning. 

Now most outfits carry diapers to catch or soak up equipment leaks. I got chewed out royally for allowing blasting during winter rest time for elk. Needless to say, it was also Tribal Elk Season....but I was very bad....Times have changed. 

It isn't all logger problems either. With the computer age comes the computer planner. The computer planner will figure out how a unit is to be logged. What is on the map is not necessarily on the ground. So, when trees to be removed are unreachable, or limblocked, or a road has been washed out for years, but nobody on the planning team noticed, I have to figure out a solution. I grit my teeth when a fish biologist is explaining the logging systems to a layperson. He calls skyline, high lead and if the layperson knows anything, they know that highlead is a method for yarding in clearcuts. And we're thinning. 







I would compare my job to a store. We want to sell the timber, but have to watch out for the occasional shoplifter or vandal. So, I have to be customer service and security all in one. 

Rant over.


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## Humptulips (Apr 22, 2010)

slowp said:


> .
> Let me see, in the past I've found them cutting the wrong tree,Obviously the forester marked the wrong tree a little bit of real timber theft,Probably a bad surveying job running machinery up and down creeks,Creek started running down the cat road. If it had stayed where it is supposed to there would have been no problem. letting antifreeze drain into a creek,Darn creek water diluting our anti-freeze. damaging leave trees, Improving wildlife trees by creating a catsface so it will rot out a hole and create a den tree,etc.



See, those loggers got things figured out. You just have to look at it from a different perspective.


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## slowp (Apr 22, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> See, those loggers got things figured out. You just have to look at it from a different perspective.



Let me see, contract says cut blue painted trees, cutters decided blue paint meant leave trees with blue paint. The timber theft was nowhere near a property line and it was obvious that the ORANGE painted leave trees taken were purposely done as they rubbed the stump marks off with the skidder but forgot about the higher mark... Your creek example is good, I was driving in one yesterday and called the road crew to unplug a culvert, which they did. 
It definitely had to be done with a backhoe. 

Ever thought about becoming a wildlife biologist?:greenchainsaw:


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## porch monkey (Apr 22, 2010)

Gologit said:


> One of the reasons we have so much oversight and regulation is because of some of the things we did in "the good old days". A lot of the things I joked about in my other post were common practice then but would probably get you arrested today. And probably should, too.
> 
> Changing oil in the Cat? Dump it on the ground. Major hydraulic oil leaks or fuel spills? Cover it up and forget it. Stream siltation? Ignore it. Running Cats in the creeks and rivers? Hell, there's lots of salmon, they'll spawn somewhere. Erosion control? Just move up the hill a little. This stuff doesn't work today.
> 
> ...



No need to be sorry about it - I liked hearing your thoughts and it didnt sound like a rant to me. Your right about our old ways bringing a lot of this on ourselves..when I think about some of the things we used to do it makes me ashamed.

But your also right about the overeacting of the government. When government doesnt ACT in time and something gets out of hand, it REACTS to make up for it. And many times that REACTION is an OVERreaction


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## porch monkey (Apr 22, 2010)

slowp said:


> I would compare my job to a store. We want to sell the timber, but have to watch out for the occasional shoplifter or vandal. So, I have to be customer service and security all in one.
> 
> Rant over.


I dont think your post sounded like a rant either slowp. Sounds like exactly what Gologit said about you - your one of the ones that has some common sense. And I bet you'd be a lot of fun to work around...even if you are a federale. We're sensitive to the environment down here to...we dont bury the revenuers and federal agents anywhere close to the ground water. lol


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## porch monkey (Apr 22, 2010)

Thought I'd better make it clear that last part about the burying was just a joke


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## Gologit (Apr 22, 2010)

porch monkey said:


> Thought I'd better make it clear that last part about the burying was just a joke



LOL...No problem. I knew it was a joke.


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## RPM (Apr 22, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Oooops. :taped: We wouldn't really do that. Uh uh. Nope. Not ever. Well, not cable anyway. The dumbest guy on my crew knows that cable won't burn...you dig a hole with the Cat and bury _that_ stuff. It's best to do it on a side hill...helps hold the soil together and prevents erosion. :monkey:
> 
> That other stuff, old cardboard boxes, empty snoose cans, the occasional stray fuel filter, rags, and old gloves is actually bio degradable in a sense. You set it on fire, the birds fly through the smoke, the birds choke up and die, and they rot back into the soil. Ashes to ashes...that kind of thing. :greenchainsaw:



+1 for the comment but cant rep yet. To true for someone who has obvioulsy been around the landing!  But as you mentioned - those were practices of the past!


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## slowp (Apr 22, 2010)

Yes, today for an example, the skyline had a broken strand of wire. They were pulling it in to move the yarder. They cut the longer strand off, and the one guy looked at me and said, "I'll just throw this over the hill." Then said, "Nope, gonna put it in the scrap pile. I need the extra money." 

Every day is Earth Day....:greenchainsaw:


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## cat-face timber (Apr 23, 2010)

I know that wen I was in the log woods, the fallers would limb all they could, the skiders would bring the logs to the landing where the buckers would buck up the logs. Then the knot bumper would bump the knots and even buck some. 
The fallers would go first, then the skidders/buckers then the loaderman.
It was a good system, but sometimes during Hoot Owl, firewatch at 12:00 ect...., the loaderman would catch up, and the fallers would fall all weekend.

Working on the frost was good, very cold, but nice.

Yes you can see the northern lights from northern AZ.


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## Bruce 46 (May 14, 2010)

I wold like to see them felling more also, too much drama on the landing, you know?


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## stevohut (May 21, 2010)

Yes I also would like to see more action of them cutting and less about them #####ing at the equipment that breaks because it isn't taken care of. Show some footage of the guys running for the hills because they cut recklessly and with safety on the back burner.

steve


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