# rope / flipline grabs - a short review



## imagineero (Nov 26, 2013)

I was going to do this as a video review, but the thought of putting the various devices side by side sounded like it would need me to go downstairs, plus I can't stand the sound of my own voice.

I climbed on the standard wirecore clipline for years, with a petzl micrograb. Everyone knows what they look like, and how they work. I climbed on the 1/2" line, and generally went for 10'. The wirecore is great for its stiffness - you can really whip it which helps a lot on larger trees. None of that flip left/flip right stuff! The grab is pretty annoying though. It's ok at taking in, but you can't release it under pressure, and there's no control on release - it's all or nothing. You can climb around it, and most do.... but it limits your flipline to being used only as a flipline. 

So last year (or the year before?) I got tempted by a CE lanyard after trying one out. The demo video is very good and worth watching. 



I climbed on it and loved it. There was a real hesitation going to rope after wirecore for so long, but you get over it pretty quick. Wore the rope out in no time and made up another longer one (about 15' or 20') which I kept mostly daisy chained. The becket on the pulley is not as useful as they make out in the video, and the thimble which I thought was quite a drawcard ended up being something I never use. I took it off after a few months. You could use it for a mechanical advantage/rescue or whatever, but pretty unlikely. The whole revelation though, was having my flipline as a second tie in point. It really changed the way I climb, especially for trim work. The 20' daisy chained line stays nicely stowed but it's there when you need it. The rope wears faster than a wirecore, but it's cheap and easy to just make another one yourself and works out cheaper in the long run than wirecores. Being able to easily lower yourself off in a controlled way with your flipline is a practical useful feature which comes in handy every day. The thing is you go through e2e's, which are about $60/pop in aus, and I was going through 2 or 3 a year. Not a huge expense, but still would be nice to not have to. I'm not a huge fan of the carabiner at the end of the CE lanyard either... I prefer the old style double locking steel clips you find on most wirecores.

So I bought an ART positioner 2 a couple months ago. I thought this would be it. No prussiks, nice and tidy, has the swivel etc.... and if it lasted a couple years I'd be well ahead vs the prusiks. Plus you can replace the cam for less than the price of a prusik when that wears out. Unfortunately, the thing ended up being nothing like what I expected. The biggest downfall of it is the downfall. There's no friction control, so it behaves basically like a grab with only on, or terrifying freefall. So pretty much just an expensive grab. But wait; it gets worse! It self feeds super easy. That might sound like a good thing, but lets imagine you're in a tree, doing tree work. You climb up past your TIP, and you want to flipline in so you can pull your rope out and progress further. Not so outlandish. You reach down and pull up the end of your flipline with one hand (because the other is holding on to the tree) and as you pull it up all the slack peels out and now the line is too short to clip in. Which means you'll need both hands (one on the device and the other on the rope) to pull the slack back out so you've got enough. Sound annoying? It is. 

So I'm back to the CE lanyard style. It doesn't self tend (which is good!) and has silky control. You don't need to go for the CE lanyard, it's kinda overpriced in my opinion. The thimble and the becket are a gimmick, you can use any pulley, any prusik and any rope you like. Be sure and tie a stopper knot in the end of your rope. Enjoy

Shaun


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## Pelorus (Nov 26, 2013)

Good info there, Shaun.
I use a Grillion, having previously used a micrograb and wire core flip lines. 
Grillion replacement lanyards are spendy, so I use Poison Ivy for a cheap substitute.
I can totally appreciate the advantage of being able to use a CE type lanyard to offer a second TIP.


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## deevo (Nov 26, 2013)

Yep I'm with you Shaun and Dave I went to this system last year also after climbing a long time with the wire core. Many cool options for sure !


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## bootboy (Nov 26, 2013)

I use a similar system with a grigri now. I got a rope grab for wire core and I hate it. I only use a wire core with a vt now for large, single stem conifer removals.


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## joezilla11 (Nov 26, 2013)

Nice post I've been thinking about this same topic for a few days now and seems like the new hydra/rook would work well for a positioning system similar to the hc setup. But I have some rope that was cut and a pulley I never use so I'll have to give it a try now


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## Iustinian (Nov 29, 2013)

Gibbs Ascender with a black and red Magic Flipline with a blue aluminum snap was my first work positioning lanyard. I tried the buckstraps and 2n1 lanyards and really thought they were all terrible -- because I was already used to one-hand operation of the Gibbs. After I learned to splice double-braid, I traded an extra Gibbs I had to a buddy for a Trango Cinch, and spliced a ISC triple locking biner snap onto 10mm Ocean Poly; I attach this to my hip ring with a rock exotica swivel-biner. Vast improvement, it always aligns comfortably, and adusts very smoothly under a load (Gibbs doesn't adjust when its loaded). I rarely use the lever to adjust it though, I usually just twist the whole device clockwise because the swivel-biner positions the Cinch further away from me than a biner would with the Gibbs. I've tried some of the other devices and configurations out there, including the ART Positioner, Micro-grab, etc. I doubt Ill ever try to improve on my current set-up at this point because its so smooth, very adjustable, and grabs reliably, and is very very lightweight. It's never flopped around and gotten uncomfortable like the Gibbs always did. With alot of the other rigs I've used, the flipline always seemed to be in the way, whereas the Cinch never really felt like that. It does take some getting used to, like any other peice of equipment we use, but one of the best improvements I've made to my system.


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## beastmaster (Dec 3, 2013)

I use a CE lanyard type set up also. I need to refine it some. I made mine out of old climbing line, a retired bee line prussic, and a snap key ring to advance the Vt. I need to get me a spliced end. The double fishermen knot I use to tie the carabiner on with gets wedged in every thing. A pinto pulley would be nice too.
When I climb big conifers I use home made wire core lanyards and a becket bend knot(the suicide knot)made out of 5/8th(or bigger) three strand rope. I like the heavy rope for when I have to whip a 21 ft lanyard around a 55 inch pine. I can splice three strand my self.


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## Matt81 (Mar 8, 2014)

I bought the bits and made this just recently, after watching the CE lanyard video.
Here the CE lanyard starts at around $300 for the shortest length! 

So for around the $100 mark i have the same functionality of the CE lanyard. I already had the eye2eye marlow viper cord and the Kong oval biner. I will be putting a length of cordura chafe sleeve on the rope to protect it from abrasion.


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## ATH (Mar 8, 2014)

I have had a completely different experience with the ART Positioner. It works like a dream. One of the things I like is that it can be loosened or tightened under friction. It does take a little getting used to the loosening part, because if you just push it when under load it will all let go at once...but after using it a few times I have learned how to adjust it better. I can't think of anytime it has "self-fed" or any time I have needed 2 hands to adjust it. I do have the first generation...so maybe that is a difference???. What rope did you use with it? ---that is more likely the culprit?


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## TreeAce (Mar 8, 2014)

My biggest complaint about the 1/2 inch wirecores with a rope grab is that the lanyard has a tendency to feed back (get shorter) simply by its own weight. Then it takes two hands to feed the lanyard back out. Totally unacceptable to me. I tried it with an I2I and it was ok but but just ok. As for this "all or nothing" thing with letting some slack out under tension I cant say I have a problem with it. I just sorta hold some lanyard with a couple fingers and use a couple other fingers to release (gently!) the rope grab a little while easing some weight off the lanyard. Never seemed to be a problem. In rare cases I have wished it would feed slack under tension. My other complaint is I hate those steel snaps. I often use a 7/16 rope with a rock exotica rope grab and two petzl biners. Works great. What I use a lot for trimming is simply a 30ft line with a hitch climber set up. I have a splice on it to because i prefer to remove the biner when pulling it out if there is any chance at all the biner will get stuck. The splice just speeds things up some. This set up works just like a lanyard from one hip Dee to the other or its a sweet little climbing line for navigating my way around the tree. In conjunction with my primary climbing line. If the CElanyard can do something I cant do as well or better with my mini climbing line I am all ears. I think it costs about half and that counts buying a brand new 30ft hivee line with a splice on it.


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## beastmaster (Mar 9, 2014)

Here's my most recent endeavor
,I used 9.5mm static line, and its 15 ft long. I'm experimenting with useing a longer flip line for trimming. So far I like it. Using the smaller dia. it doesn't get in the way like a 14 ft 1/2 inch line would.


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