# How sharp is sharp?



## Jackbnimble (Dec 7, 2015)

_I've purchased new chains that cut like warm knives in warm butter and I always hope that they will never grow dull. Soon enough, unfortunately, I forget how nice it was to be cutting with a super sharp chain and I become accustomed to a so-so sharp chain and before you know it, I'm trying to cut warm butter with a tissue. I have this tendency to try to adapt to conditions as they are (I'm married) so I convince myself the chain is cutting just fine when it really isn't. _

_So, how sharp do you guys keep your chains, how long do you expect them to remain super-sharp and what is realistic? (Have you guys seen these fellas free-hand cut beautiful lumber from logs with great ease? The chips of wood spitting off their chains always seem nice and big.) _ I've begun trying to sharpen my chains by hand (with an attachment/kit from Oregon). As of yesterday afternoon, one that I spent hours sharpening, cut right through some water without much effort.


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## scheffa (Dec 8, 2015)

I sharpen my chains after every tank to second tank


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## CR888 (Dec 8, 2015)

lf you run multiple chains you can swap out when needs be and sharpen at the end of the day when you can focus getting them right for next time.


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## ft. churchill (Dec 8, 2015)

I sharpen here about once an hour using just an Oregon file guide, take about ten minutes for a full comp 20" or 24" 
Saves alot of time cutting thru the wood. And I usually need a water break in an hour anyway.


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## Frogfarmer (Dec 8, 2015)

You want the chain as sharp as you can possibly get it and keep it that way. It is easier on the saw engine and cutting attachments. I'm not much of a hand filer but I can use a saw grinder like a pro. I have spare chains for when one gets dull. At the end of the day I sharpen chains.


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## ATH (Dec 8, 2015)

The more dull it gets the harder it is to get it back to "real sharp", so that is why more frequent filing is good. I openly admit I am terrible at hand sharpening. I bought a bench top sharpener, and that has helped a lot...however, I know I still need to learn to hand sharpen. 10 years later, and maybe my hand sharpened chains aren't useless anymore! If I hand sharpen after a tank or two (assuming I haven't been in the dirt), I can keep it going well. If I wait longer than that or get mess it up in dirt or rock, I am best off bringing it back to the shop and doing it on the sharpener.


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## Jackbnimble (Dec 8, 2015)

See, part of my problem is that I stink at sharpening. I am getting better, but not too sure why. It seems like too much hit or miss. But, the chips are larger and there is less fine sawdust, but I can't seem to get all the cutting angles really, really sharp on all the cutters, all the time. I'm running a 28" 91 DL chain, so it takes about 15 years to sharpen all of them, you know; a least it feels like it. And I still don't know why those little tabs stick up from the bottom of the chain groove. But, ordered another bar and chain from Baileys, so will compare them. I just like cutting when the saw is running at its optimum.

Somebody would be smart to hold an in-person class on chain sharpening where you could get hands on experience with an expert instructor. Too often, online videos don't help me to figure out what I'm doing wrong.


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## redoakneck (Dec 8, 2015)

Practice, magnification, and chain vise have been the most important things I have found to improve my hand filing ability.

1 to 3 tanks per chain in hard wood.

Takes a lot of practice to get your muscle memory down. Took me a year to feel comfortable doing left side cutters.

You should be able to hold the saw with right hand on throttle and have the saw feed itself thru the wood. Not recommending one hand sawing, but if you are pushing with the left and dawging in and pulling up on right hand u are too way too dull.


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## Jackbnimble (Dec 8, 2015)

Thanks for the encouragement. I've tried magnifying the cutters but it's hard to see the surface clearly, for me. Plus, I'm not really sure what a super sharp chain would even look like without an expert's guidance. We're talking tiny, tiny fractions of inches, right?


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## redoakneck (Dec 8, 2015)

Use a new chain to see what it should look like.


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## redoakneck (Dec 8, 2015)

Pittsburgh!!!!! What???? Cincinnati native here, we both have an exciting game Sunday.


How much does Big Ben really weigh, camera says more than 240??


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## redoakneck (Dec 8, 2015)

Need really good lighting from several angles to see properly.


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## Jackbnimble (Dec 8, 2015)

Appreciate your help. When I blow up the picture, it gets fuzzy.

But, I can look at a sharp cutter and a not so sharp cutter under magnification and be unable to tell exactly what the differences are in their respective cutting capacity. The surfaces may be smooth and sharp on both, but if the angles are not quite right, off by just a smidgen, the cutting suffers. Do you know what I mean?


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## Philbert (Dec 8, 2015)

Jackbnimble said:


> The surfaces may be smooth and sharp on both, but if the angles are not quite right, off by just a smidgen, the cutting suffers.


The angles actually mean very little (!). Really. They can be off by several degrees and you would not notice a difference in most normal cutting.

The cutting _edges_ are what's important. Each cutter has two: a top cutting edge and a side cutting edge. They sould _both_ feel like a razor sharp knife. If these are not sharp, the chain will not cut the wood fibers, but drag and tear them.

Some guys obsess over their gullets, hooks, etc., but the cutting edges do the cutting. After that, you can work to get all of your angles the same; getting the cutters the same length; setting the depth gauges right; optimizing for a smooth cut and the type of wood.

I don't want to sound condescending, but if you don't know what you want your finished cutters to look like, all you are doing is removing metal.

Philbert


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## blkcloud (Dec 8, 2015)

I ain't gonna fight no dull saw... Usually about the second tank I'll lightly run my file across the teeth just to touch them up.. Once I put a chain on I never take it off until it's worn completely out..


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## BC WetCoast (Dec 8, 2015)

Go over to the sawmilling forum and look through some of the posts by Bob Love (BobL). You will learn everything you need to know and more about cutting angles, depth guage angles, hook length, gullet depth etc etc etc. 

It took me a while to get to hand filing properly. What really clicked in for me was to look at the tooth I'm filing and compare it's length to the adjacent ones. You can tell if there is a significant difference. File as required to even the tooth lengths out. 

Another thing I read was that most of the cutting is done at the top corner of the tooth, and 2mm along the top place and 2mm along the side plate.

I like to cut a bigger chip than others, so my depth guages are filed a little lower, but I'm working primarily in softwood.

If you look down the chain from the tip (toward the engine) there shouldn't be any shiny lines along the cutting edges. It's the same as looking at the cutting edge of a knife, if you look down a knife edge and see shiny bits, that's where metal is chipped or bent and can reflect light. A sharp edge has nothing to reflect light. Same for saw teeth. If you look at the tooth edge with a magnifying glass, you don't want the cutting edges to be rounded over, just come to a sharp edge. Try looking at a tooth when it's dull and then file it and look again.

Use the reference lines on the top of the tooth to keep your angles consistent.


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## Jackbnimble (Dec 8, 2015)

Philbert said:


> The angles actually mean very little (!). Really. They can be off by several degrees and you would not notice a difference in most normal cutting.
> 
> The cutting _edges_ are what's important. Each cutter has two: a top cutting edge and a side cutting edge. They sould _both_ feel like a razor sharp knife. If these are not sharp, the chain will not cut the wood fibers, but drag and tear them.
> 
> ...


Absolutely. That's why I don't know what to do. I've been removing some metal and then feel each cutter to see if it feels sharp. When all of them seem to be pretty sharp to the touch, I take her out and begin cutting wood. 

Sometimes, it seems to cut better because it is sharper and sometimes it doesn't.


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## Jackbnimble (Dec 8, 2015)

blkcloud said:


> I ain't gonna fight no dull saw... Usually about the second tank I'll lightly run my file across the teeth just to touch them up.. Once I put a chain on I never take it off until it's worn completely out..


Thanks


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## Philbert (Dec 8, 2015)

Which Oregon guide are you using?

A photo would help. So would close up photos of your cutters. 

Philbert


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## scheffa (Dec 9, 2015)

File every tank, three swipes a tooth, gives me time for smoke between tanks


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## BC WetCoast (Dec 9, 2015)

How often I file usually depends on what I'm cutting. If I'm cutting soft maple street trees, I may go a couple of days between filings as the saw stays sharp.


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 9, 2015)

You can check your sharpness with a piece of paper ,it should cut the paper clean if sharp ,if it hangs up and tears it is not sharp yet .


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## tidy (Dec 19, 2015)

a rough guide is to use your finger tips (lightly), sharp cutters will will feel "sticky", they will also trace a line through your finger nail if you lightly glide over them. Blunt cutters will not do this. Visually a sharp cutter has a crisp edge, if you can see light reflected from the edge its not sharp.


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## beastmaster (Dec 22, 2015)

I think I'm a pretty good saw sharpener. I use to do tool and die work, I have a good understanding of cutting edges. I sometimes go weeks of daily saw work with out having to sharping my climbing saw. Ground saws I sharping as needed. It only takes a little dirt to dull a chain. Lots of guys like a big hook in each tooth. That makes for a sharp saw that'll quickly dulls. The angle of the face of the tooth top and sides is what's important. I sharpen using just a file. After 5 or 6 sharpens I'll use a jig ,especially on longer chains to even them up. I'll hit the rakers then too.


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## crowbuster (Dec 22, 2015)

Anymore I just don't have the time to sharpen while cutting. So I swap to a sharp chain and keep cutting till It's time to swap again then sharpen on the grinder when time allows. I was pretty good at filing, just like the time saved using the grinder at the end of the day or when time allows. As screwy as our weather has been we really have to make hay while the sun shines. 60 degrees and thunder storms tomarrow. good day to sharpen chains


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## Macman125 (Dec 22, 2015)

I usually do the same as what most have previously mentioned. I go two to three tanks in between touching it up depending on how dirty the wood is. I try to keep all of the angles and cutter lengths the same. A lot of what is missed by most people is raker height. I usually take a couple licks off each one every other time I sharpen it. Another big thing is making sure the saw is stable while you sharpen it. trying to deal with a saw wobbling all over the place is a pain while trying to sharpen.


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## Kor (Dec 23, 2015)

blkcloud said:


> Once I put a chain on I never take it off until it's worn completely out..



Hi, wouldn't it be better for evenly wear on your sawbar and clutchdrum to wear out four chains while changing them every time you sharpen them? And what adds to the lifetime of your sawbar is placing the current upside down every time you change chains. After your four saws are gone, you better change clutchdrum and sawbar (or at least the nosetip) too.


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## jwilly (Dec 23, 2015)

I can file my chain faster than I can swap it out. I buck the trees on the landing and quite often they are dirty and I need to sharpen every hitch. In winter if there is snow I can go sereval tanks of fuel before sharpening. My son cuts down and has more hook on his chains, they cut faster but dull quicker.

The thing I have learned is not to wait till it is butter knife dull, I use a vise on the back of the truck and a touch up only takes about 1/2 a cup of coffee.


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## Philbert (Dec 23, 2015)

jwilly said:


> I can file my chain faster than I can swap it out. . . .I have learned is not to wait till it is butter knife dull, . . . and a touch up only takes about 1/2 a cup of coffee.



A common issue in these threads is a different definition of '_sharpening_'. For some, it is 'touch-up' sharpening, or maintaining an edge. For others, it is bringing back a severely dulled or damaged chain.

It may also depend on where you are working. Some guys mostly cut at home. Some guys cut with a work truck near by. Others are deeper in the woods, or on a trail. 

I prefer to sharpen at home, with good lighting etc. So I take extra chains with me. I may touch up in the field, but often hit stuff doing storm damage cleanup, and prefer to clean up those chains with a grinder. 

Philbert


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## Macman125 (Dec 23, 2015)

If you are worried about getting the correct angles; a lot of chain manufactured by stihl has score marks on both top and sides of the cutter for reference.


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## JeffGu (Dec 23, 2015)

Philbert said:


> ...I prefer to sharpen at home, with good lighting...



Yeah, I'm not sitting around on the tailgate of a pickup or plopped down on a log to sharpen a saw chain. I can swap the chain out in a couple of minutes and clean up the saw a bit while I'm at it. Temperature and conditions in my shop are a whole lot nicer than where I'm cutting, most of the time... I can do a better job of it.


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## Philbert (Dec 23, 2015)

Whatever works for folks. Personal preference accounts for a lot of it.

Philbert


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## jwilly (Dec 23, 2015)

If I happen to rock a chain I will swap it out, otherwise I just try to keep it sharp.


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## Westboastfaller (Dec 23, 2015)

I'll put it into perspective.
What you consider sharp.
I call "factory dull"
It will bite in the back of my finger nail.
I will shave it.
You need a good file
Some of the fine grade files I don't like. I don't like fine grade Stihl files on Stihl chain. If you 'back file' or not clean it out every 3-4 strokes you will wear it out in no time . water is the enemy too.


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## Macman125 (Dec 23, 2015)

I don't like fine files. I like to be able to hear that it is taking meat off as I am making a stroke.


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## JeffGu (Dec 23, 2015)

maclovercp125 said:


> I like to be able to hear that it is taking meat off as I am making a stroke.


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## beastmaster (Dec 25, 2015)

I sharpen a lot people's saws for them,and it seems most people even professionals don't know how to sharpen a saw. One side the teeth will be way shorter, no two teeth the same. Rakers down to far. Longer the bar the crazier it'll cut. Fixing a chain like that by hand is difficult, that's the only time I like a grinder.


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## Jackbnimble (Jan 28, 2016)

Macman125 said:


> If you are worried about getting the correct angles; a lot of chain manufactured by stihl has score marks on both top and sides of the cutter for reference.



Thanks. I've noticed.


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## Jackbnimble (Jan 28, 2016)

Well Boys,

I was in the pits, unable to be certain the chains were getting sharper, regardless what I did. NOW, NOW I have to say that I could very well be one of the elite chain sharpeners of all time! I began to feel, hear and see when the file was sharpening consistently. I fit the file into the angles of each cutter as they existed. My chains are pretty new so the angles are already set. I adjust the horizontal position of the file making sure it is correct, which isn't hard. I position the file in there nice and snug. Then, easily, softly at first, I start to guide the file the length of the file, adding mild pressure up into the top plate while increasing the pressure on the side plate and in the cutter. I can feel the file grinding the steel. I can feel it make the cutter sharper. And, I can see it is considerably shinier after each pass. It is too cool. Never thought I'd get the hang of it. But, you boys saw me through with your excellent advice and by humbly admitting it wasn't easy for you to master, either. THANKS!


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## Jackbnimble (Jan 28, 2016)

All I have to do now is figure out how to give myself 30 to 40 million likes without getting caught.


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## Macman125 (Jan 28, 2016)

There is really nothing to it once you get the hang of it. The only time I have problems is when I am fixing a chain that has been fubared. Its not that I can't get it sharp again it is that it takes forever, makes me wish I had a grinder sometimes. I myself am looking into learning to square file.


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## A10egress (Jan 28, 2016)

filing a chain is definitely a test in patience and dedication. The first ones I ever did took forever and got all messed up. But I kept at it and filing the chain just comes natural to me now. Give yourself room for mistakes, learn from them and do it with full attention and you'll be OK.


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## Jackbnimble (Jan 29, 2016)

Well, let's be honest. False modesty isn't necessary. It does take a real genius to perfect this skill and obviously we have both demonstrated uncanny intelligence plus perseverance in this realm. (But, it does get easier with time!)




A10egress said:


> filing a chain is definitely a test in patience and dedication. The first ones I ever did took forever and got all messed up. But I kept at it and filing the chain just comes natural to me now. Give yourself room for mistakes, learn from them and do it with full attention and you'll be OK.


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## A10egress (Jan 29, 2016)

I worked and fixed ejection seats for 17 years... filing a chain is quite simple once you get the mechanics of it. It does however require patience, dedication and knowledge of how it needs to be done.  I guess we are all genius in one way or another


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## Del_ (Jan 29, 2016)

I usually sharpen on the saw every few tanks or so depending of course on how the saw in cutting.

As an arborist I'm often cutting far from home so I do carry several extra ready to go chains in case they are needed.

It's important to get the job done and get the crew home. Counting on hand sharpening on the saw when the payroll clock is ticking is counter productive profit wise.

Cutting around the house or in the woods out back is another story.

I've found 3X magnifier glasses to be very helpful. Makes a tooth look an inch long!


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## Jackbnimble (Jan 29, 2016)

A10egress said:


> I worked and fixed ejection seats for 17 years... filing a chain is quite simple once you get the mechanics of it. It does however require patience, dedication and knowledge of how it needs to be done.  I guess we are all genius in one way or another



I used to fix ejection seats, too. Killed 14 people in 27 minutes. No one appreciated my expertise.


Seriously, you know what is funny? I was about ready to throw in the towel because I just wasn't able to catch on. Then, almost suddenly, it started to feel right. I was astonished.


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## no tree to big (Jan 29, 2016)

Honestly we run saws for multiple days with out being sharpened if you keep it in clean wood it don't slow down... I'm not sure how yall need to sharpen after a tank or two!

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## Del_ (Jan 29, 2016)

no tree to big said:


> Honestly we run saws for multiple days with out being sharpened if you keep it in clean wood it don't slow down... I'm not sure how yall need to sharpen after a tank or two!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk



The simple answer is you don't need to sharpen after a tank or two if you're not after top of the line performance.

A slightly slower cutting chain takes it's toll on the saws lifespan and also the bar and sprocket. 

But most important of all a slower cutting saw takes it's toll on the operator.


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## Philbert (Jan 29, 2016)

Difference between 'touch-up' sharpening, to maintain a sharp edge, and waiting to sharpen until a chain is dull, and no longer cutting well. 

Philbert


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## no tree to big (Jan 29, 2016)

Philbert said:


> Difference between 'touch-up' sharpening, to maintain a sharp edge, and waiting to sharpen until a chain is dull, and no longer cutting well.
> 
> Philbert


Most of the time our chains don't dull over time they dull rapidly when somebody bounces it off the chipper or cuts sod... 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## Jackbnimble (Jan 29, 2016)

"A slightly slower cutting chain takes it's toll on the saws lifespan and also the bar and sprocket.
But most important of all a slower cutting saw takes it's toll on the operator." Del_

I've read that this is true in books about chainsaws and it makes sense, but I don't know why, exactly. How does a chainsaw distinguish between a chain that is cutting with sharp cutters and one that isn't?

Occasionally, I'll run into a cutter that just doesn't want to get sharper. I end up trying every possible angle, various degrees of pressure, new files, just spinning the file, etc., and nothing produces that razor-like sharpness. Anyone experience this, too?

I love when the chain tears through wood like it's starving to death. I love to see long strips of thin wood pile up behind me. There's something hard to describe and very satisfying about that, whether I sharpen the chains or not. I never cease to be impressed how much a very sharp chain loves to cut, how efficient and easy chainsaws are to use when running a very sharp chain.

I love wood. I love to cut a section from a newly felled tree and to experience the fresh, aromatic wood so raw, so sturdy, so tough and solid, you know? I love its ruggedness, its weight and strength, its beauty. And somehow it got like that from just a small seed, rain, dirt and sunlight. How the heck can that possibly happen? But it does.


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## Philbert (Jan 29, 2016)

Dull chain puts more load on the motor, and other components, to pull it. In extreme cases, it will lug the motor and cause overheating, vibration, cause the user to press harder, etc.

Philbert


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 30, 2016)

But how would a saw differentiate between a dull chain cutting a piece that's 20% of the bar length and a sharp chain cutting 100% of the bar length?


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## Jackbnimble (Jan 30, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> But how would a saw differentiate between a dull chain cutting a piece that's 20% of the bar length and a sharp chain cutting 100% of the bar length?




Excuse me. Pardon me. Most of the time I can't remember what day it is.

You ask an interesting question. If all things are equal, for example, cutting the same size and type of wood, with the same saw, the one with the razor sharp cutters will work less hard, creating less wear and tear.

If taken to an extreme, a chain that is so dull it can't really cut at all, will eventually wear out before it produces anything. If it is super sharp, it will wear out at the same rate but will yield a 1,000 cords? 

My tendency is to put more pressure, more weight into the cutting action the less sharp the chain is. I suppose that creates more heat, like tires spinning, when the chain spins at 60 to 70 mph without gaining traction and passing through the wood? 

Beats me!


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## Philbert (Jan 30, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> But how would a saw differentiate between a dull chain cutting a piece that's 20% of the bar length and a sharp chain cutting 100% of the bar length?


And how much wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

With the newer, computer controlled chainsaws, it's probably just a few years until it sends a message to your iPhone to answer your question.



Jackbnimble said:


> Occasionally, I'll run into a cutter that just doesn't want to get sharper. I end up trying every possible angle, various degrees of pressure, new files, just spinning the file, etc., and nothing produces that razor-like sharpness.



Post some close up photos of your cutters. We can probably offer some suggestions.

Philbert


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## Jackbnimble (Feb 1, 2016)

Philbert said:


> And how much wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
> 
> With the newer, computer controlled chainsaws, it's probably just a few years until it sends a message to your iPhone to answer your question.
> 
> ...



If I knew how, I'd be delighted to. 

BTW, does anyone know where, in the front or the back, that the black, 1" x half inch, shield goes for summer vs winter weather, that fits inside a Stihl MS 660 Cover?


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## Philbert (Feb 1, 2016)

Jackbnimble said:


> BTW, does anyone know where, in the front or the back, that the black, 1" x half inch, shield goes for summer vs winter weather, that fits inside a Stihl MS 660 Cover?


Download (or read) the Owner's Manual from the STIHL website. It is different on each saw, and really hard to explain. The manuals have pictures. 

Philbert


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## Jackbnimble (Feb 1, 2016)

thanks Phil


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## Jackbnimble (Feb 1, 2016)

You know how we're always told not to drop start the saw? We're told to place the saw on the ground, stick our foot into the handle space and tug on the starter cord. Is it me or is that the dumbest instruction of all time? I couldn't fit my foot, shoe, boot into that tiny opening if I cut off 4 toes. Can anyone crunch their foot in there?


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## ATH (Feb 2, 2016)

There are other ways to start without drop starting...

But I start my bigger saws on the ground all the time. Just hold it down with the toe of you boot... Don't need to put you whole foot through.


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## BigOakAdot (Feb 2, 2016)

I bought a 440 off a guy here in PA with a 24" bar and chain. It was my first saw bigger than my 50 cc 261 and that thing was razor sharp. So sharp that it would almost pull out of my hands! If I wasn't holding up on the saw in the cut, the saw would bog completely out. 

The guy was a character and wouldn't surprise me if he had almost completely filed down the rakers. Not sure what else could cause this. 

I can't remember the name of it, but my
Friend who is a full time climber has a sharpening tool that mounts to the bar. It looks just like a pencil sharpener. Sure seems like a neat little tool but I'm not sure if he ever figured it out. 

I've been hand filing as of late and I feel like I'm OK at it. Considering I'm using a 41" bar most of the time, I'm already sick of hand sharpening chains. In your guys opinions, what is the best most economical option if you're not going to hand sharpen?


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## ATH (Feb 2, 2016)

You are probably talking about a Timberline: http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...uides/Timberline-Chainsaw-Chain-Sharpener.axd

I want one...but not $100 worth of want.


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## Jackbnimble (Feb 2, 2016)

BigOakAdot said:


> I bought a 440 off a guy here in PA with a 24" bar and chain. It was my first saw bigger than my 50 cc 261 and that thing was razor sharp. So sharp that it would almost pull out of my hands! If I wasn't holding up on the saw in the cut, the saw would bog completely out.
> 
> The guy was a character and wouldn't surprise me if he had almost completely filed down the rakers. Not sure what else could cause this.
> 
> ...




I hate wasting time. So, when I have a major project to do in the John, I take advantage of the opportunity and sharpen my chains. Depending on how big the workload is, I can completely sharpen a 91 drive link chain sitting down on the job.


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## Jackbnimble (Feb 2, 2016)

ATH said:


> There are other ways to start without drop starting...
> 
> But I start my bigger saws on the ground all the time. Just hold it down with the toe of you boot... Don't need to put you whole foot through.




I must have big feet. I can't even jam a toe far enough in there to hold the saw steady and pull on the starter cord simultaneously.


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## Jimbo209 (Feb 14, 2016)

Jackbnimble said:


> I must have big feet. I can't even jam a toe far enough in there to hold the saw steady and pull on the starter cord simultaneously.


I take sz 17/18 Nike basketball boots and the steel blues I work in won't fit the toe cap.
Manual has ground or clamp handle in legs to start. But the stock 660 starts well enough with decomp on the ground which I prefer to flapping around the 32/36 even if doable.

I had a builder from Victoria point out that 2-3 pulls on full choke then half x2 to start the 660 should work which had fixed some of the many pull starting sessions


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## Jimbo209 (Feb 14, 2016)

As for the chain. I prefer to touch up over my lap on the job and fix later,
1-2 lite strokes to avoid it going dull. And ground trimming even less to avoid forcing through the cut.

Have you checked the chain pictures in milling and the hot rod section, the glint/reflective edge makes a big difference and can be sharp with glint but not super sharp.

Also there are a few chain build off threads with pictures, one was linked here but on another site.


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## Philbert (Feb 14, 2016)

Jackbnimble said:


> I couldn't fit my foot, shoe, boot into that tiny opening if I cut off 4 toes. Can anyone crunch their foot in there?





ATH said:


> There are other ways to start without drop starting...Just hold it down with the toe of you boot... Don't need to put you whole foot through.



I have seen newer videos, from Husqvarna and others, which say that if you can't get the toe of your boot through the handle on the flywheel side, you can put the heel of your boot down on the wide, flat part of the handle on the clutch side. I usually use the toe of my boot as far as it will go on the flywheel side, if ground starting.

Philbert


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## Jackbnimble (Feb 14, 2016)

Philbert said:


> Download (or read) the Owner's Manual from the STIHL website. It is different on each saw, and really hard to explain. The manuals have pictures.
> 
> Philbert


I moved the slide to the right location and now it idles fast. Not sure if the two are connected. Chain keeps spinning after releasing the throttle, not terribly fast, but it doesn't stop spinning, either. I hate to mess with the idle control screws. I have just enough finesse to blow the saw to kingdom come.


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## Jackbnimble (Feb 14, 2016)

Jimbo209 said:


> As for the chain. I prefer to touch up over my lap on the job and fix later,
> 1-2 lite strokes to avoid it going dull. And ground trimming even less to avoid forcing through the cut.
> 
> Have you checked the chain pictures in milling and the hot rod section, the glint/reflective edge makes a big difference and can be sharp with glint but not super sharp.
> ...



Thanks for the advice. I will check out those spots.

My shoe size is 15. I thought I had big feet until you came along! I prefer the drop and yank method because I just can't coordinate pulling on the starter rope and holding the saw in place on the ground very well. But, at least she starts and man does it love to maul through wood. Sharp cutters are a blast. The difference between razor sharp and so-so sharp is pretty amazing. Hardly have to work at all when they are cutting with maximum efficiency. (I don't get them razor sharp very often, but often enough to keep me encouraged to continue practicing my technique.)


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## JeffGu (Feb 14, 2016)

BigOakAdot said:


> ...has a sharpening tool that mounts to the bar. It looks just like a pencil sharpener....



That sounds like the Timberline sharpener... I have two of them, and love them. I keep the first one I bought with the jobsite tools, at the shop. This new one is for here at home, so here's some pics while it's all shiny and new. Does this look like what your friend has? It is a very well made device that works great. I could teach a monkey to use it in ten minutes. You just have to read the instructions and play with it for awhile, and it becomes almost reflexive... and fast. There are subtle nuances to getting the hang of it, but really, halfway through the first old chain you try it on, you'll have it down.


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## Jimbo209 (Feb 15, 2016)

Jackbnimble said:


> Thanks for the advice. I will check out those spots.
> 
> My shoe size is 15. I thought I had big feet until you came along! I prefer the drop and yank method because I just can't coordinate pulling on the starter rope and holding the saw in place on the ground very well. But, at least she starts and man does it love to maul through wood. Sharp cutters are a blast. The difference between razor sharp and so-so sharp is pretty amazing. Hardly have to work at all when they are cutting with maximum efficiency. (I don't get them razor sharp very often, but often enough to keep me encouraged to continue practicing my technique.)


Limbing small branches 18" .325 .063 >80% to super Sharp, yes the bigger bars I'll let go a bit longer and hold softer as there is more work to complete a 24"+ chain and it will only be a stroke or 2 more


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## BigOakAdot (Feb 15, 2016)

JeffGu said:


> That sounds like the Timberline sharpener... I have two of them, and love them. I keep the first one I bought with the jobsite tools, at the shop. This new one is for here at home, so here's some pics while it's all shiny and new. Does this look like what your friend has? It is a very well made device that works great. I could teach a monkey to use it in ten minutes. You just have to read the instructions and play with it for awhile, and it becomes almost reflexive... and fast. There are subtle nuances to getting the hang of it, but really, halfway through the first old chain you try it on, you'll have it down.
> 
> View attachment 486111
> View attachment 486112
> ...



Yeah that's the one. I just watched the video on baileys website. Seems easy enough to use. My one question is can you change the angle you wish to file a tooth? I do a lot of milling now and would preferrably have one that can do both 45 and 10 degree angles....


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## bikemike (Feb 15, 2016)

JeffGu said:


> That sounds like the Timberline sharpener... I have two of them, and love them. I keep the first one I bought with the jobsite tools, at the shop. This new one is for here at home, so here's some pics while it's all shiny and new. Does this look like what your friend has? It is a very well made device that works great. I could teach a monkey to use it in ten minutes. You just have to read the instructions and play with it for awhile, and it becomes almost reflexive... and fast. There are subtle nuances to getting the hang of it, but really, halfway through the first old chain you try it on, you'll have it down.
> 
> View attachment 486111
> View attachment 486112
> ...


On the mounting block do they have a bearing for the hone to ride in or is it just a hole


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## JeffGu (Feb 15, 2016)

The angle guides are a replaceable aluminum bushing... cone shaped where they go into the body, and held with a hex set screw.




You can also get a set of them that allow you to grind 25 or 35 degrees (the set handles both) instead of the 30 degrees with the standard set that comes with the unit. They are $12 for the set.




As you can see, this set is just like the stock ones, but the pathway for the carbide is drilled at an angle. The depressions for the set screws are drilled so that using one gives you 25 degrees, or turning it and using the other will give you 35 degrees.

Because it is the smooth part of the carbide shank that rides in the angle guide (bushing), and it's only turning at low speeds, a bearing isn't needed.


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