# Making raised beds



## esshup (Mar 8, 2022)

O.K. guys and gals. I want to make some raised beds this Spring. 20 feet long, 50"-54" wide inside, 24" tall. It freezes up here, and I only want to make them once, not re-do them in 20 years. I want to make 3 of them. That wide because I can drive my garden tractor with the tiller on the back in and out of them.

I was thinking pour a 9"x9" footing in the ground, using the ground for a form. Use 3 courses of 8"x16" block. rebar in the footing, rebar coming up from the footing, filling the lowest course and part of the 2nd course and using a tie to help hold the wall from "pooching" out during the freeze/thaw cycles we have here.

I also looked into using PT wood rated for ground contact. Then I saw PT wood prices. 

Thoughts and suggestions?


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## TNTreeHugger (Mar 8, 2022)

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## Hard_Yakka (Mar 8, 2022)

Cement board on the inside of non-PT wood or Tyvex lined x 2.
I cut a bunch of full sized 2x12 & 2x8's Fir last year and just took some out of the drying pile to coat the inside, bottoms and ends with a sealer then white paint. Adding 2 more this year plus some regular in-row growing corn, squash(pumpkin). We will still line the inside with Tyvex/Road cloth. Going on 7th season for the early ones. 4' is the maximum bed width. No liner installed in the new box yet when picture taken. This one built in '20, 4x8'


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## djg james (Mar 8, 2022)

Why are you making them that tall? Takes a lot of soil.


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## Del_ (Mar 8, 2022)

All of that building is for the gardener, not the plants. The plants don't need it. In the end the bed frames just get in the way. They are quite labor intensive to build plus they cost a lot.

Our beds are 3ft. wide and 50ft. Walkways are 2ft wide. Each bed has a metal stake at it's center at each end. We try to not walk in the beds to reduce soil compaction. We use a Troy-bilt roto tiller to incorporate plant residue and prepare the surface for planting. We use a Meadow Creature broad fork(look on YouTube) for digging 14 inches deep to break up the subsoil. We use drip irrigation and human urine for fertilization.

I've been at the hobby for 40 years now and have been through all kinds of garden designs over the years and love to build things. Gardening is about growing plants though and plants don't give a darn about infrastructure. You've got to love what you are doing and if you don't then gardening is just a huge amount of work Vs. being a pleasure.

This is the gardening style that we have settled on.







Here's how we pressurize the drip for out 26 beds. We work in the garden while irrigating.






Here I am using a Meadow Creature broad fork:


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## Hard_Yakka (Mar 8, 2022)

We have a lot of dirt on 200 acres ... Wife has had spinal fusion and is able to sit on the edges or kneel without a lot of pain and reach into center if necessary. Ours are 20"-24" high. I do the in-row crops just like my 'daddy' did and won a bunch of blue ribbons with aged chicken manure soup/tea added throughout the season.


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## TNTreeHugger (Mar 8, 2022)

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## Del_ (Mar 8, 2022)

TNTreeHugger said:


> You paid $260 for that thing?
> Guarantee my $50 spading fork will work just as well.



Guaranteed it won't.

And I have a half a dozen other spading forks.

You're not a gardener, so how would you even know?

Show us your results.


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## SweetMK (Mar 8, 2022)

Well, this is the ARBORISTSITE,, and most have a chainsaw,,,
add that to what my SIL found on some internet search,,

What he ended up doing was making the raised bed out of a couple logs as the sides.
and,, IIRC,, he added brush/branches in the raised bed, as some of the fill, to supply part of the nutrients of the garden.

The raised bed he made was about 30 feet long, and it is producing nicely.
The crops are far superior to the result of planting in the clay soil that he has.
He has had it for about 4 or 5 summers now,, and it seems to be working.

So, got any 24" diameter trees that need disposed of??


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## SweetMK (Mar 8, 2022)

Something like this would be quick and easy,,


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## TNTreeHugger (Mar 8, 2022)

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## Del_ (Mar 8, 2022)

TNTreeHugger said:


> I am an excellent gardener and can grow anything - as long as it's not edible.
> 
> And one doesn't have to be a gardener to know you got snookered on that thing.



Maybe you should read up on the benefits of broad forking?

I started 'double digging' with a regular spading fork back in 1980.

An investment in a tool is not being "snookered'.

You are in a vegetable gardening thread is case you don't know it.

You know, where people talk about growing vegetables.

Evidently it is something that you don't do well.


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## TNTreeHugger (Mar 8, 2022)

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## esshup (Mar 8, 2022)

The reason for the raised beds is so I don't have to work at my ankles but more importantly to be able to garden in better soil. When I renovated my pond in 2008/2009 we brought over 2700 cu. yd. of sand over there to build up the slope of the ground so Mom & Dad could put up a pole barn on flat soil. 30'x40' building. Dad's knees were giving him problems so he didn't want to be walking up a steep hill so we leveled it out. Pee poor for growing it drains way too fast and has 0 organics in it. Under the sand is a lot of clay. Dad built Mom 2 raised beds out of 2x12's, but Mom used so much Preen in them over the years that getting something to germinate from seeds now is a real crapshoot. The top 8" of soil from those beds will go in at the bottom of the new beds.

So, I want something that will last 15-20 years without needing to be rebuilt 'cause I ain't getting any younger. Plus who knows what stuff will cost then? 

As for filling them, a farmer a mile down the road is digging out a pond. He's got soil that is so black that it looks like carbon. It's in a low area and organics have collected there for eons. He's got a small dump truck, and a small shaker deck/screen table with a conveyor to load the truck. So getting good dirt would not be a problem. 

I have a lot of drip irrigation supplies here from when I gardened in Ca., so I won't need to buy much for that. I will put galvanized 1/2" hardware cloth at the bottom of the bed so the dang moles and gophers don't come up from below in the beds.


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## djg james (Mar 8, 2022)

Love your garden Del. Mine started out years ago as a 50' x 60' plot with a slope. I put in three 3' x 16' raised beds, end to end, out of 2 x 10"s White Oak that I got when I was at the mill. Most of the downhill side has rotted away, so I got the boards scabbed and propped up with rods.

I've cut back because I'm terrible at keeping weeds out of the garden. I'm putting beans and squash on trellises. Still trying potatoes.

The lowest section terraced off the garden, was rows of strawberries. Well weeds got to it and choked out the plants. I want to reclaim it slowly and plant sunflowers for the birds. Did you start yours in the ground or inside in pots?


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## djg james (Mar 8, 2022)

My BIL builds his raised beds on 4 x 4" posts so the sides only have to be 12". Of course you have a bottom you have to contend with.


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## Automender (Mar 8, 2022)

esshup said:


> O.K. guys and gals. I want to make some raised beds this Spring. 20 feet long, 50"-54" wide inside, 24" tall. It freezes up here, and I only want to make them once, not re-do them in 20 years. I want to make 3 of them. That wide because I can drive my garden tractor with the tiller on the back in and out of them.
> 
> I was thinking pour a 9"x9" footing in the ground, using the ground for a form. Use 3 courses of 8"x16" block. rebar in the footing, rebar coming up from the footing, filling the lowest course and part of the 2nd course and using a tie to help hold the wall from "pooching" out during the freeze/thaw cycles we have here.
> 
> ...


Maybe you should consider retaining wall blocks. They will flex with the frost cycles and last for ever. You can't fight mother nature and the laws of physics for long.


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## TNTreeHugger (Mar 8, 2022)

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## Del_ (Mar 8, 2022)

TNTreeHugger said:


> Not yet.
> 
> This thread is about how to make a raised bed - you don't have any.



Troll on. We've been there, done that. I like to help people maximize their gardening enjoyment and productivity. I've lost count of the people over the past 40 years that I helped get more enjoyment from gardening. If fact this very gardening forum here at Arboristsite resulted from my suggestion to the owners here back in the day.

Here's our same garden spot when it contained 32 4ft x 16ft raised beds dug 24 inches deep.


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## TNTreeHugger (Mar 8, 2022)

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## TNTreeHugger (Mar 8, 2022)

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## Del_ (Mar 8, 2022)

I'd like to point out that I'm not against raised beds. They are especially useful for those that have physical limitations that makes regular gardening difficult. Bear in mind though that raised beds still require a lot of work preparing, weeding and harvesting. 

And raised beds can limit the use of various gardening tools that can greatly reduce the labor involved in gardening such as Wheel Hoes and Roto-Tillers. Look into the wheel hoes that Hoss Tools sells. I collect antique Planet Jr. wheel hoes and gas powered cultivators. Plus I've got 3 working Troy-bilt 8hp rototillers.


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## Del_ (Mar 8, 2022)

TNTreeHugger said:


> No, you don't.



How'd this mosquito get in here? 

I'll be out vegetable gardening for the next few hours.

You?

Its a rhetorical question.


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## TNTreeHugger (Mar 8, 2022)

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## Automender (Mar 8, 2022)

Del_ said:


> I'd like to point out that I'm not against raised beds. They are especially useful for those that have physical limitations that makes regular gardening difficult. Bear in mind though that raised beds still require a lot of work preparing, weeding and harvesting.
> 
> And raised beds can limit the use of various gardening tools that can greatly reduce the labor involved in gardening such as Wheel Hoes and Roto-Tillers. Look into the wheel hoes that Hoss Tools sells. I collect antique Planet Jr. wheel hoes and gas powered cultivators. Plus I've got 3 working Troy-bilt 8hp rototillers.




Master Gardener friend of mine calls the rotortiller the devils pitchfork. It ruins the soil structure. However I use one.


Del_ said:


> View attachment 971409
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 971410


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## Del_ (Mar 8, 2022)

Automender said:


> Master Gardener friend of mine calls the rotortiller the devils pitchfork. It ruins the soil structure. However I use one.



I agree. Rototilling also redistributes natural soil microbes to non optimal depths. I try to use the rototiller to knock down winter weeds tilling to 4 inches deep of so than I broadfork the 3ft wide bet to 14 inches deep. The broadforking is much more difficult the first time it is used in a bed but gets much easier the second and third season. I don't broadfork for fall crops where I broadforked for the spring crop. Eventually beds only need broadforking every two or three years and then none at all. 

I should be using winter cover crops. It's something I need to work on. I've got some Sun Hemp seed that I plan on sowing in empty beds in late July for a fall cover crop. It winter kills in this area.


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## esshup (Mar 8, 2022)

Del_ said:


> I'd like to point out that I'm not against raised beds. They are especially useful for those that have physical limitations that makes regular gardening difficult. Bear in mind though that raised beds still require a lot of work preparing, weeding and harvesting.
> 
> And raised beds can limit the use of various gardening tools that can greatly reduce the labor involved in gardening such as Wheel Hoes and Roto-Tillers. Look into the wheel hoes that Hoss Tools sells. I collect antique Planet Jr. wheel hoes and gas powered cultivators. Plus I've got 3 working Troy-bilt 8hp rototillers.
> 
> ...



That's why I'm making the raised beds wide enough to get the JD rototiller in there. Ramps up to get into the bed, ramps down to get out. 1 pass will do the whole bed with the exception of a few inches on each side.


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## esshup (Mar 8, 2022)

TNTreeHugger said:


> I have a piece of this in my barn and am thinking of getting more for the sides of my raised beds... light weight, easy to handle/install, inexpensive, and it's perforated for ventilation and drainage.
> 
> What do you think?
> View attachment 971406


How tall are you going to make the beds? It might not have enough resistance to bending so the sides might not be straight.


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## esshup (Mar 8, 2022)

Automender said:


> Maybe you should consider retaining wall blocks. They will flex with the frost cycles and last for ever. You can't fight mother nature and the laws of physics for long.


How do you make a rectangular bed with the blocks and keep the corners/ends together? It'd take roughly 90 8"x16" cinderblocks to make the bed, how many of those blocks? At the local big box store they are 2x the price of the cinderblocks.


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## djg james (Mar 8, 2022)

Del_ said:


> .....Here's our same garden spot when it contained 32 4ft x 16ft raised beds dug 24 inches deep.
> 
> View attachment 971405


Your sides go into the ground some 20"? And your drip irrigation system uses a pump. What size (gpm)? Would something like that work with soaker hoses and an ibc tote of rain water?


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## TNTreeHugger (Mar 8, 2022)

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## TNTreeHugger (Mar 8, 2022)

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## SweetMK (Mar 8, 2022)

TNTreeHugger said:


> I've found concrete block suck a lot of moisture out of the soil.


AND,, the concrete is limestone, so the block will constantly be raising the pH,, not good.

I live in Virginia, we always fought low pH due to acid rain,,
now, they quit burning coal for electricity, no more acid rain, my soil pH is going over 7.

I had to start buying sulfur to acidify the soil,,,


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## Del_ (Mar 8, 2022)

djg james said:


> Your sides go into the ground some 20"? And your drip irrigation system uses a pump. What size (gpm)? Would something like that work with soaker hoses and an ibc tote of rain water?



No, my 8 inch sides sit on the surface and the soil has been dug to 24 inches deep. In my area in N/E Georgia raised bed offer little to no advantage other than better drainage. If fact the soil in raised bed can get too warm for plant roots mid summer. This is not a problem further north.

My pump is a 1/2 horsepower jet pump is a household domestic water pump. We have a total of 5,000 gallons of rain water storage and a lot of it is in IBC totes but we do have a 1,000 and a 1,100 gallon tanks.

Absolutely you can drive soaker hoses with such a pump. I run our drip and feed 1,200 feet of drip line all at once. I have a pressure gauge on the pump and one after the filter on the drip system. A water valve allows me to return excess pressured water back to the tank from which it is being drawn. This allows me to adjust pressure. I usually run the system for an hour or so and drain a 300 gallon IBC tote. I always work in the garden when irrigating and keep a close eye on the system. As the filter picks up debris I often have to up the pressure feeding the system, but just a little.

We also mix water soluble fertilizer and urine in a 55 gallon topless barrel and are able to have it drawn into the water pump that then gets distributed into the whole drip irrigation system. There is a valve on each of the 26 fifty foot drip lines so we can control which beds get fertigated, because not all beds and their crops need fed fertilizer depending on their stage of growth. For instance last summer we had 10 fifty foot rows of corn and several times I fed (side dressed) those rows and only those rows with a human urine water mix at 6 gallons of urine per 50 gallons of water. The final water/urine mix hitting the drip lines would be in the neighborhood of 6 gallons of urine per 200 gallons of water.

As you can tell, I love to talk gardening, with even a little math thrown in.


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## djg james (Mar 8, 2022)

Del_ said:


> As you can tell, I love to talk gardening, with even a little math thrown in.


I don't mind a bit. You've answered my next questions also. Good information, thanks.


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## djg james (Mar 8, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> ......I had to start buying sulfur to acidify the soil,,,


Some type of Sulfate?


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## SweetMK (Mar 8, 2022)

djg james said:


> Some type of Sulfate?


From what I understand, it is pure sulfur,, it looks like this;


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## Del_ (Mar 8, 2022)

djg james said:


> I don't mind a bit. You've answered my next questions also. Good information, thanks.



Thanks.

I added a photo of the drip filter in the previous posting.


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## Del_ (Mar 8, 2022)

TNTreeHugger said:


> I've found concrete block suck a lot of moisture out of the soil.



All raised beds require more water, no mater what the construction material is made of. Even raised beds made entirely of soil require more water.

And have higher soil temperatures, too. Good in the spring but can be to high in mid summer in the south.


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## esshup (Mar 8, 2022)

TNTreeHugger said:


> I've found concrete block suck a lot of moisture out of the soil.


They could until they get saturated. I'd have a drip system in the garden on a timer, so I can always adjust the amount of water. I learned a while back, don't rely on myself remembering to turn off the sprinkler........................


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## esshup (Mar 8, 2022)

SweetMK said:


> AND,, the concrete is limestone, so the block will constantly be raising the pH,, not good.
> 
> I live in Virginia, we always fought low pH due to acid rain,,
> now, they quit burning coal for electricity, no more acid rain, my soil pH is going over 7.
> ...


In this area, it is a good thing because the soils are typically low pH. Farmers here have to lime their fields annually.


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## jolj (Apr 14, 2022)

I have been growing organic vegetables for 49 years.
I use double dug raised beds with no lumber or stone for over 15 years & they are still going strong.
I said that, so you would know I am Not against raised beds.
BUT you do not need raised bed, unless you have heavy clay & or stone in your garden or you have a high water table & wet soil ten months out the year.
This does not mean you should not have raised beds, just that it is not needed, to have a good garden.
I mowed down my raspberries, that was out of control (my fault), & turned the soil, that had not been planted in twenty years.
I then put the onions just under the soil & they have multiplied six fold, with no added compost or fertilizer.
If you follow the basic rules, then you will have more than you can eat.
We have low pH(4.5-5.5) here in S.C., because it is an ancient seashore, great for my Rabbiteye blueberries, black berries & southern raspberries.
I use gypsum which is calcium sulfate dihydrate, CaSO4.2H2O in pellet form so the wind will not blow it away & I will not breathe it.
I use coffee chaff compost, some animal waste, leaves, wheat straw & pasture clipping, some wood chips for mushrooms.
Going to try rice husk on my garlic/onion beds as mulch this Fall, the husk are small & will not hinder the bulbing of the plants in any way.
Hopefully they will not mat or blow away.


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Apr 16, 2022)

Del_ said:


> I'd like to point out that I'm not against raised beds. They are especially useful for those that have physical limitations that makes regular gardening difficult. Bear in mind though that raised beds still require a lot of work preparing, weeding and harvesting.
> 
> And raised beds can limit the use of various gardening tools that can greatly reduce the labor involved in gardening such as Wheel Hoes and Roto-Tillers. Look into the wheel hoes that Hoss Tools sells. I collect antique Planet Jr. wheel hoes and gas powered cultivators. Plus I've got 3 working Troy-bilt 8hp rototillers.
> 
> ...



TB Horse hard at work! bar treads, bumper... Briggs 8 is my guess. enjoyed seeing....


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Apr 16, 2022)

Del_ said:


> *I agree*. Rototilling also redistributes natural soil microbes to non optimal depths. I try to use the rototiller to knock down winter weeds tilling to 4 inches deep of so than I broadfork the 3ft wide bet to 14 inches deep. The broadforking is much more difficult the first time it is used in a bed but gets much easier the second and third season. I don't broadfork for fall crops where I broadforked for the spring crop. Eventually beds only need broadforking every two or three years and then none at all.
> 
> I should be using winter cover crops. It's something I need to work on. I've got some Sun Hemp seed that I plan on sowing in empty beds in late July for a fall cover crop. It winter kills in this area.


not me! i think D. Raymond in his book Joy of Gardening clearly and demonstratively made his point!


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## sonny580 (May 3, 2022)

The problem with books is that what works for them WONT work for others so thats why I never read books---- total waste of my time! lol!!


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## camel2019 (May 4, 2022)

We built our raised bed about 16 inches high made it out of mostly the old front steps after we put a new porch on and some other wood I had laying around from other projects . For dirt most of it was top soil that was dig out of the spot we laid the gravel driveway in after it was screened and city compost(mostly wood shrubs dried grass and peoples garden clippings) that we get by the truck load as well as my compost from my kitchen scrap composter and yard waste composter. Nice think about living on ex swamp land is my yard has about 3ft of top soil already and if you dig anywhere near the clay layer you will fill a hole with ground water.


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## esshup (May 4, 2022)

I stopped at the farmer down the street. He's trying to dig a pond in a wet area and the dirt looks like black charcoal. He's got a screener and a dump truck, so I have secured the majority of the dirt for my raised beds. It'll take a few weeks for it to dry out enough for him to get back there but it's already set up to get enough when he's starting to sell it.


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## sonny580 (May 5, 2022)

sis uses concrete blocks for her raised beds. 2 high seams to work decent then fill with good dirt/compost/horse manure/etc. Grows good stuff in them, BUT water is always the problem with raised beds! --- Thats why I dont use them! got 3 out here that are cross ties 3 high and we did try them one year and found they are WAY too much work for what little you get in return. We dont have the time to mess with them. 4.5 acres flat ground gardens take up all of our time! IF you have the time, ---- they are great!


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