# Splicing Bee line



## pdqdl (Mar 16, 2009)

We bought a bunch of Bee line to make VT friction hitches with, but NOBODY wants to tell me how to splice it. Not Sherrill, they will splice it for you, but they won't tell you how to do it for yourself. Yale Cordage won't either, and they made the stuff.

I have concluded that it should be a core dependant class II splice, but I suspect that I should be real careful to get the _exact_ instructions for this application.

Right now we are using double fisherman's knots, but it would be nice to be a little more streamlined.


----------



## md_tree_dood (Mar 19, 2009)

Are you a certified splicer?

Why not just buy them pre spliced and go do one job and make up for the difference in cost?


----------



## pdqdl (Mar 19, 2009)

One need not be a certified splicer to do good work. Good instructions and training/practice are another story.

The question is not whether to buy a single spliced eye & eye prussic, it is how many and at what length I might need, and how often they will need to be replaced. I believe in self-sufficiency, and I would really be pissed to become dependent on a bee-line prussic, only to discover that I needed another one, and I had to wait two weeks for the next one to show up.

Right now, I think I understand the difficulty the professional splicers have in offering spicing instructions for this rope: This type of rope requires a class II double braid eye splice (I think), which is actually quite easy to do. Unfortunately, it requires six fid lengths of cover beyond the core insertion point to pull back enough cover to expose sufficient core to do the splice. When slicing the second eye splice, you run out of room to pull back the cover far enough to complete the second splice if you are working on a short section of rope.

There is an additional risk of disrupting the first splice by pulling back the cover while doing the second splice. Furthermore, I am concerned that details of the slices might make the prussic to stiff to use properly for a VT. Overall, it is a bit tricky to do well, and so far no one is giving me the instructions for the proper technique. 

I have made one eye & eye prussic, but the cover ended up being too loose, it was about 1 foot too long, and it just wasn't good enough to climb on. Until someone gives me better instructions, I will just continue to experiment until I figure it out on my own. My first attempt will make a dandy chainsaw lanyard; it's just the right length for that.


----------



## md_tree_dood (Mar 19, 2009)

While it seems like you have alot of information on the topic, I wouldn't climb on anything spliced by someone who wasn't certified to do it. I only know one person who knows how to splice rope, that being said, he won't splice for anyone due to the legal issues that can arise if it fails. That being said, he told me that at his best he could make a proper splice on a 16 strand rope in an hour. Assuming you're twice as fast as he is, you can do one beeline e2e in an hour. Figure out how much you make an hour and figure if the it's really worth it? 

In the end, you're going to do whatever you want but you're putting your life on the line to save money. Think about that next time you're 100 ft in the air and your homemade splice is the only thing between you and -9.8 m/s and a sudden stop. Personally, I'd order 2 beelines per man, when one needs to be replaced, use the new one and order another.


----------



## pdqdl (Mar 19, 2009)

I understand and appreciate your concerns. Thanks.

You should understand that I've been hanging from my own splices for about 25 years now. Unfortunately, that does not include 25 years of splicing in Bee Line, or many of the other newer ropes. I'm just expanding my horizons. 

In another thread, I related how I caught one of my splices pulling apart just before I would have fallen. It failed because I failed to understand the splice completely, bypassed several important steps, and then I failed to check it as carefully as I should have. Even then, it was over a year old when it pulled apart in my hands.

I learned that lesson real well: any splice I do now is as good as it can be done, or it doesn't get used to swing from a tree with.


----------



## pdqdl (Mar 19, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> While it seems like you have alot of information on the topic, I wouldn't climb on anything spliced by someone who wasn't certified to do it. I only know one person who knows how to splice rope, that being said, he won't splice for anyone due to the legal issues that can arise if it fails. That being said, he told me that at his best he could make a proper splice on a 16 strand rope in an hour. Assuming you're twice as fast as he is, you can do one beeline e2e in an hour. Figure out how much you make an hour and figure if the it's really worth it?
> 
> In the end, you're going to do whatever you want but you're putting your life on the line to save money. Think about that next time you're 100 ft in the air and your homemade splice is the only thing between you and -9.8 m/s and a sudden stop. Personally, I'd order 2 beelines per man, when one needs to be replaced, use the new one and order another.



By the way, 16 strand rope is rather difficult to splice. So far, I haven't tried to do any of those splices yet. The last eye splice I did in my 9/16ths Stable Braid bull rope only took me 15 minutes, not including the time I spent lock-stitching the splice. 

A simple little class II double braid eye splice only takes about 10 minutes, not including lock stitching or whipping. I spend more time marking and measuring the rope than I do performing the actual splice. 

Two of them done back-to-back for a prussic tress? I don't know, I haven't got that mastered yet.


----------



## lacky (Mar 19, 2009)

On the 8mm do a locking brummel on each end with about a 6" bury. That is plenty of bury on the 8mm. As far as the cover goes, just safety pin it back while you work on one end or remove it all together and put it back on after the splicing is done.

10mm is a class one double braid splice.

chris


----------



## pdqdl (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks Lacky. 8mm is what I am working with. Why wouldn't 10mm also be a class II splice? It is still a core dependent rope, even if there is enough room to get the splice made.

Hmm. How would you put the cover back on, unless you only stitched it down where the core goes back into itself? 

How would you do a brummel with the cover still on the eye portion of the splice? I like the idea though, especially if you are shortening the buried core.

I'll do some more research. By the way, do you routinely spice Bee Line?


----------



## YankeeinSC (Mar 19, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Hmm. How would you put the cover back on, unless you only stitched it down where the core goes back into itself?



I just bought some new 8mm Bee lines from Sherill. I've never been patient enough to splice anything much beyond 3 strand hemp and hollow core nylon ropes. The Technora Bee line that I got only has the cover over the center portion. The caribiner eyes at the ends of the Bee are core only. When new, they barely fit over the mighty mouse.


----------



## pdqdl (Mar 19, 2009)

Well now! That would explain everything, wouldn't it?

What is "the mighty mouse"?


----------



## YankeeinSC (Mar 19, 2009)

The mighty mouse is the little caribiner that we use to attach the Bee line and the tending pulley to the harness with. Here's a photo


----------



## pdqdl (Aug 31, 2009)

lacky said:


> On the 8mm do a locking brummel on each end with about a 6" bury. That is plenty of bury on the 8mm. As far as the cover goes, just safety pin it back while you work on one end or remove it all together and put it back on after the splicing is done.
> 
> 10mm is a class one double braid splice.
> 
> chris



Well! I finally got around to doing some splices like you recommended. They turned out fine. I made two: one with 6" bury, and one with 2.5 "fid lengths" (which came close to touching the buried tails on the 30" eye-to-eye I was making; Here are my notes:

I gave up having the cover included on the eye while still installing a locking brummel, so I suppose that mine are pretty similar to the commercially sold units. I am thinking of buying one and dis-assembling it to see how they make them.

I did work out a pretty easy method of doing them: 

1. Starting with the right length of rope, strip off the cover (save for later).
2. Make the eye-to-eye core splices at the length desired, using brummels on each eye. Super easy, except for cutting the taper on the buried tails.
3. Measure the length of cover needed to extend from eye to eye, then slide the cover over the eyes and lock stitch it in place. Make it a little bit long to allow for the swollen diameter from the splices. 
4. Whip the frayed ends of the cover.


Side note: this has got to be the toughest rope in existence! I can't cut this stuff with anything I have. I had some kevlar gloves once, they were easy to cut with a knife. The only thing I haven't tried is a hammer and chisel.


----------



## outofmytree (Aug 31, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Well! I finally got around to doing some splices like you recommended. They turned out fine. I made two: one with 6" bury, and one with 2.5 "fid lengths" (which came close to touching the buried tails on the 30" eye-to-eye I was making; Here are my notes:
> 
> I gave up having the cover included on the eye while still installing a locking brummel, so I suppose that mine are pretty similar to the commercially sold units. *I am thinking of buying one and dis-assembling it to see how they make them.*
> 
> ...



What I know about splicing rope could be chiselled on the back of an Aspirin with a pry bar. I do know however, that many companies use exactly that technique to learn how to make a competitiors product. Hope it works out for ya.


----------



## canopyboy (Sep 2, 2009)

I made a post a few months ago after also finding little readily available information:

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=101918

And then here's a picture of one in use:

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1613897#post1613897

I've done quite a few since then, including Ultratech in the same fashion. An eye-to-eye now takes about 45 minutes. You have the advantage of making it any length you want without knots and no waiting for it to be sent to you. I sometimes work on 'em at night in front of the TV.


----------



## Job Corps Tree (Sep 8, 2009)

*Splicing BeeLine*

You could use Double Fishermans Knot for Both ends you won't have the over fat rope from the splices, you can tie right down to the knot, using splices you can only tie to where the rope gets fat with the part fed back into its self. did this a lot tell I could get the rope spliced. the knots work just fine and you can untie them you can pick how long they are


----------



## lacky (Sep 8, 2009)

Beeline is a tough material to cut. I bought some ceramic scissors from amazon.com and they are great. They cut anything and everything. They are not cheap but they are worth every cent if you splice.

chris


----------



## pdqdl (Dec 9, 2015)

Wow! I cannot believe how long it has been since I made another Eye-to-Eye.

I made another 28" one tonight; I forgot many of the details and had to bone up. I installed longer tails than I did in the past, and gave it a longer taper. I'll report how well that works.

It looks like I got quite about 7 years out of the last one I made. Bee line is real tough, but I don't climb every day. I still have most all of my original rope to make more with. At the current rate of use, I should have enough bee line to last me until I am somewhere around 130 years old.


----------



## acer-kid (Dec 11, 2015)

You pull the core completely out from the cover. What you're doing is splicing locking brummels.. So the lenght of the bury is less important than it would be with a straight bury.

Search out Reed Wortley. Hell give you measurements. Naked eye splices. Can do it in the truck over lunch.
He goes by "worthaug" on the buzz.


----------



## pdqdl (Dec 11, 2015)

Yep. I know about the brummels & the bury length. While not as important, the bury length and taper are still critical to the strength of any splice. I was making the tails a bit longer and more tapered, just to see how it acts on the VT I use. 

This Eye2Eye is a bit stiffer than my previous one, which had become so pliable and bound up so tightly on my 10mm climbing line that the VT was rather difficult to slide down. When it was new, the previous E2E was a bit spooky for not holding too tightly at all unless "set" before loading it.

So...this one is a bit different. The tails meet in the middle of the E2E, and have a longer taper than the recommended 2". I also cross stitched the cover to the core using strands from the discarded cover for the stitching thread, in addition to the whipping at the ends with waxed nylon. Today I sealed the spliced eyes with "Star brite Dip-It Whip-It". So far, that seems to be turning out OK, although it is a bit disconcerting to read how many solvents are in that stuff, including MEK.

I'll report how well this one does.


----------



## pdqdl (Dec 12, 2015)

I am rather pleased with the results. A couple of pics.




This is with the red Star brite coating added. Before allowing it to dry, I installed the E2E on my carabiner and then loaded it with a few hundred pounds with my chain hoist. I wanted the eyes to dry/set without any distortions from their loaded position. I painted on a second coat after the first (loaded) coat dried.



I think it turned out well.


----------



## acer-kid (Dec 12, 2015)

Looks good.


----------



## Warrick (May 1, 2016)

I've been researching splicing and made some eye to eye prussicks from HRC. It's got the same hollow braid core that they use the naked core splice on as beeline. I came up with a slightly better way I think to finish the cover to make it neater. You measure the bury length plus the eye and pull the core out through the cover at that point. Do your locked brummel and after put the cover through the eye and feed it back into itself and out again. It takes a bit to milk the cover up to the spliced end but a way neater splice when done. It then should only need whipping to hold it as it's so tight in the cover it's unlikely to move anyhow. I'm not a qualified splicer so don't quote me on it but I would think it would have to make the splice stronger seeing you're integrating the cover into the splice adding strength to the brummel?


----------



## pdqdl (May 10, 2016)

That is a real pretty cover tuck you put on that. I wouldn't count on it adding any strength.

These ropes are "core-dependent" double braid, which means that 100% of the strength is in the core. The cover only serves to protect the core. That being said, a while back we had a member who was load testing his splices, and doing some real neat work. As I recall, Moray tested just the cover of Bee Line to exceed the rated strength of the entire rope.

Where your tucked cover distorts the natural curve of the eye splice will be a weakened part of the splice. Virtually all splices are weakest at the end of the taper, where the single rope is carrying the entire load but is bent over the buried taper. I think your tucked cover is very tidy and neat, but I think it is an illusion to think that it might add any strength. For starters, it isn't being pulled on from the eye, so it isn't going to carry any of the load.

I think it might do an outstanding job of keeping the eye open for 'biner insertion.


----------

