# Low buck drawknife I



## HUCKLEBERRY (May 18, 2010)

I thought since I had to make a couple of drawknives for a project I've got coming up I'd try and post the fabrication steps I use. It's pretty simple and there may be a few of you out there that could use one and would rather scrounge/barter for the items and make it than spend $100-$300 to buy one.





For these two I'm using 3/4" solid round stock and new 12"x3"x3/8" chipper blades. All new because I didn't have time to go a cheaper route. After cutting the stock to @ 3' each I drilled holes about 1/4" in from each end for use later. After that I made marks @ 10" in each direction from center and tacked the bar to the table.




Using a simple template of bent flat stock that matched the angle of another drawknife I heated and bent the bar on both ends.




I then center the chipper blade, bevel down (it has a 30 degree bevel I had done at a shop), end to end and up and down. Then I tip the cutting edge up a little, maybe 3/16" higher than the back, and tack.


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## HUCKLEBERRY (May 18, 2010)

*Low buck drawknife II*





After a pass on the front side I put the bottom third of the blade in water until the weld cools. It's not to cool anything but too keep the heat from the cooling weld from changing the temper of the cutting edge. Maybe overkill but it works for me. After the weld cools I repeat the process on the backside.




Welded, cleaned up and ready for some paint and grips.




Final product with paint and genuine Schwinn bicycle handlebar grips. The cost should be really low with the friends/connections many of you have. Even if everything is new the chipper blade is @ $50-$60 once the bevel has been reground and the round stock is @ $8. Not a bad deal for a very useful tool.


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## BobL (May 19, 2010)

Here's mine.
12" file, de-tempered to RC 58
Jarrah handles, brass plumbing end caps.
I also made the leather holster.


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## HUCKLEBERRY (May 19, 2010)

BobL said:


> Here's mine.
> 12" file, de-tempered to RC 58
> Jarrah handles, brass plumbing end caps.
> I also made the leather holster.
> ...


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## Ted J (May 19, 2010)

Here's mine. Although I didn't make it... got it off of the "bay".
it's about 20 1/2" long including the handles, and the blade is 2 1/2" wide.

I prefer the straight handles instead ot the angled ones. The straight is more comfortable on my wrists, no twisting.

Ted


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## HUCKLEBERRY (May 19, 2010)

Ted J said:


> Here's mine. Although I didn't make it... got it off of the "bay".
> it's about 20 1/2" long including the handles, and the blade is 2 1/2" wide.
> 
> I prefer the straight handles instead ot the angled ones. The straight is more comfortable on my wrists, no twisting.
> ...



Most of the straight handle designs I've seen were for finer work than I use a drawknife for. The one's I made above are mainly for peeling logs and hand carving tenons for handrail. On my upcoming project we will be using all beetle-kill pine so there will be knots a plenty. It takes a stout tool to survive. Some of the best drawknives I've seen are Barr's. I have a few of his chisels and would love to have one of everything he makes. 

Thanks for the picture.


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## jimdad07 (May 19, 2010)

Some more fine work Huck. You keep going, you may give BobL a run for his money.


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## HUCKLEBERRY (May 19, 2010)

jimdad07 said:


> Some more fine work Huck. You keep going, you may give BobL a run for his money.



Thanks man. I take that as a huge compliment.

After a tough Winter it sure is nice to share some time with kindred souls.


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## WesternSaw (May 19, 2010)

*Tool Forum*

Hi Fellas
HUCKLEBERRY,that's some heavy duty tool you have fabricated up there!BobL was kind enough to post his draw knife on the Tool Forum thread, wondering if you would consider doing the same? Ted J would you consider doing the same with your picture as well,not trying to tell you what to do just a suggestion.
Thanks
Lawrence


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## HUCKLEBERRY (May 19, 2010)

petesoldsaw said:


> Hi Fellas
> HUCKLEBERRY,that's some heavy duty tool you have fabricated up there!BobL was kind enough to post his draw knife on the Tool Forum thread, wondering if you would consider doing the same? Ted J would you consider doing the same with your picture as well,not trying to tell you what to do just a suggestion.
> Thanks
> Lawrence



I'll give it a shot when I get a chance. I'm still a posting novice at best.


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## 820wards (May 20, 2010)

HUCKLEBERRY,

Nice simple design. Cool!

jerry=


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## TraditionalTool (May 20, 2010)

HUCKLEBERRY said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137591&stc=1&d=1274238015[/IMG[/QUOTE]
> That looks good. There's a guy in Montana that makes drawknifes that look almost exactly like yours. He also puts rubber handles in them. I have used one on some logs last year.
> 
> I will say that both the drawknife and the adz are some brutal tools...some of the most back breaking work I've done at least...the adz is the worst, but the drawknife is not very friendly either...:(
> ...


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## fluffysaw (May 20, 2010)

*cool shaver*

I love it...utilizing materials at hand.... I like the handles thats gotta beat the wooden ones.....for what is worth I have about a 1/2 dozen draw knifes from flea markets and fleabay most of them work ok or suck. I have antique one i bought for 5.00 that was hand made I had little hopes for and works unbelivably well for me. It's just the perfect angle.
theres alot to be said about the proper angle.....funny the black smith figured it out, mass produced ones never did.
I see in the post above adze and draw knife work wore you out... The old timers who used the tools every day forget to mention a billion different adze designs handles grinds and bends.
Probably 1 or 2 that are a realy a joy to use....when you find the right tool and technique, pace yourself and its easy.
I've made a couple of good bark spuds I reproduced from a leaf spring from an old tool I seen at a show...if anyone is interested. I could post some pics...they work very well because of the bends and grind.....
anyone else have a good way to debark trees?


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## TraditionalTool (May 20, 2010)

fluffysaw said:


> I love it...utilizing materials at hand.... I like the handles thats gotta beat the wooden ones.....for what is worth I have about a 1/2 dozen draw knifes from flea markets and fleabay most of them work ok or suck. I have antique one i bought for 5.00 that was hand made I had little hopes for and works unbelivably well for me. It's just the perfect angle.
> theres alot to be said about the proper angle.....funny the black smith figured it out, mass produced ones never did.
> I see in the post above adze and draw knife work wore you out... The old timers who used the tools every day forget to mention a billion different adze designs handles grinds and bends.
> Probably 1 or 2 that are a realy a joy to use....when you find the right tool and technique, pace yourself and its easy.
> ...


On the older drawknives, the handles can be bent so that you can use them with bevel up or bevel down. Got that tip from Brian Bogg's video.

Some knives are bevel up and some are bevel down, the main difference being the angle as you point out. Tweaking the handles will allow you to use them either way, so the cast ones wtih softer steel are preferred for that. I have a "Perfect Handle" drawknife I got which I will bend the handles on, but it works pretty good bevel up as it was designed.


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## fluffysaw (May 20, 2010)

*tweaking handles*

Thats a good idea...I was always worried about screwing up the draw knife.


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## flushcut (May 20, 2010)

Ted J said:


> Here's mine. Although I didn't make it... got it off of the "bay".
> it's about 20 1/2" long including the handles, and the blade is 2 1/2" wide.
> 
> I prefer the straight handles instead ot the angled ones. The straight is more comfortable on my wrists, no twisting.
> ...


 That is a fleshing knife for skinning animals not wood


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## TraditionalTool (May 20, 2010)

fluffysaw said:


> Thats a good idea...I was always worried about screwing up the draw knife.


Nah, be pretty hard to do that...

And don't forget you can push just as well as pull, as-is the case with spokeshaves also. When pushing you can sneak up on the edge by rocking the blade.


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## WesternSaw (May 21, 2010)

*Fleshing/Skinning*



flushcut said:


> That is a fleshing knife for skinning animals not wood



When you say fleshing, that must be a whole different procedure than skinning.Not to be pompous,but I worked as a knifeman for 30 years in the meat industry and these are the knives they use for skinning beef,lambs,etc.Mind you in large scale slaughter houses these are also becoming obsolete as machines and different techniques are being used.
Lawrence
http://www.swissarmy.com/Forschner/Pages/Product.aspx?category=forschnerbutcher&product=40532&
http://www.swissarmy.com/Forschner/Pages/Product.aspx?category=forschnerbutcher&product=40535&


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## 1harlowr (May 21, 2010)

When he said they are fleshing knives used for skinning, I think he meant to say fleshing knives used for fleshing  Fleshing is scraping the hide to remove meat, fat and tissue.


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## flushcut (May 21, 2010)

1harlowr said:


> When he said they are fleshing knives used for skinning, I think he meant to say fleshing knives used for fleshing  Fleshing is scraping the hide to remove meat, fat and tissue.



Okay I miss spoke but know what I mean. My buddy uses a winch with a foot pedal to pull the hide off and then to the fleshing board with a fleshing knife to remove the flesh. His name is Trapper Dan for a reason.


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## Hillbilly3995 (May 21, 2010)

I was wrong once, I suppose it could happen again...That is not a fleshing knife, its a spoke knife. 

Also talking about your HUGE PITA, I once stripped a 48' sweetgum with a 20" machete for a draw knife (towel wrapped around sharp end)... yikes I'd rather not do that again.


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## WesternSaw (May 21, 2010)

*Flushcut*



flushcut said:


> Okay I miss spoke but know what I mean. My buddy uses a winch with a foot pedal to pull the hide off and then to the fleshing board with a fleshing knife to remove the flesh. His name is Trapper Dan for a reason.[/QUOTE
> Just as long as you know that I was not trying to come down on you at all or disrespect you!!
> For I have made many an error and will continue to do so.The winch set up you are talking about is basically the same thing they use in larger beef slaughtering operations,they also use air knives to assist the hide pulling machine when the hide gets hung up.Sorry to break away from the thread.
> Lawrence


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## 820wards (May 21, 2010)

HUCKLEBERRY,

Here is a draw knife I made from a Farrier's file. My old neighbor gave me a bunch of them after they got to dull for his work.

I took the file and put it in the bottom of my BBQ under the coals and BBQ'd one day. I left it there until the coals were cool. The following pictures shows how it was made and it works great. I still have not had to sharpen it since I made the knife.

Picture of File after I used a heavy grinder to remove file teeth.







Material removed from file with plasma cutter. I could have done a better job, but the torch kept getting caught on the file teeth.






Comparison of cut file with an original file/gas pliers.






File worked down with grinders and small DA grinder. I didn't put the final edge on it until I mounted the handles.






I'll add the remaining pictures in a second Quote.

jerry-


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## 820wards (May 21, 2010)

HUCKLEBERRY,

Last pictures of draw knife.

Backside shot of knife.







And here is a final shot of my version of a draw knife. Sorry I didn't take any pictures of how I did the handles. I tig welded some 3/8" stainless steel bolts I cut the heads off of. I then made the handles from some limb wood off a black oak tree and sealed them with urethane. The handles are held on with SS ny-lock nuts. The tool is great for knocking off bark. Anyone who has access to the farrier files should try making a draw knife from one.






jerry-


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## HUCKLEBERRY (May 22, 2010)

820wards said:


> HUCKLEBERRY,
> 
> Here is a draw knife I made from a Farrier's file. My old neighbor gave me a bunch of them after they got to dull for his work.
> 
> ...



Very nice job. You used two skills I'd love to learn more about. Tempering and tig. Wish you lived a little closer so that I could look over your shoulder and pick up a thing or two.

Good post and thanks for the pics.


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## flushcut (May 22, 2010)

petesoldsaw said:


> flushcut said:
> 
> 
> > Okay I miss spoke but know what I mean. My buddy uses a winch with a foot pedal to pull the hide off and then to the fleshing board with a fleshing knife to remove the flesh. His name is Trapper Dan for a reason.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Hillbilly3995 (May 22, 2010)

flushcut said:


> petesoldsaw said:
> 
> 
> > It's all good Is it possible that a spoke shave and a fleshing knife are the same thing? The only spoke shaves that I have seen are of the more concave kind than the one posted. My buddy traps coon, yote, muskrat, mink, and deer(hunts deer). His garage looks like a horror movie blood every were.
> ...


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## Ted J (May 22, 2010)

flushcut said:


> That is a fleshing knife for skinning animals not wood





Ted J said:


> Here's mine. Although I didn't make it... got it off of the "bay".
> it's about 20 1/2" long including the handles, and the blade is 2 1/2" wide.
> 
> I prefer the straight handles instead ot the angled ones. The straight is more comfortable on my wrists, no twisting.
> ...



*Interesting: but I know what I'll be using mine for.... Wood*

http://www.fntpost.com/Products/Fleshing+Knives/Sheffield+Fleshing+Knife


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## Ted J (May 22, 2010)

Hillbilly3995 said:


> flushcut said:
> 
> 
> > Yes indeed it is all good, I was in no way belittling your comment. I wish I could read the marking on it but to me it looks like an English or German spoke knife. the reason I think it not a flesher is that the handles should be leaning to direction of cut and those two sharp corners would destroy a hide. Like I said I could be wrong, just ask my Ex.
> ...


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## Hillbilly3995 (May 22, 2010)

Ted J said:


> Hillbilly3995 said:
> 
> 
> > The stamp on my knife says:
> ...


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## Ted J (May 22, 2010)

Hillbilly3995 said:


> Ted J said:
> 
> 
> > English and antique!
> ...


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## flushcut (May 22, 2010)

In the end it's whatever works right.


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## 820wards (May 22, 2010)

HUCKLEBERRY said:


> Very nice job. You used two skills I'd love to learn more about. Tempering and tig. Wish you lived a little closer so that I could look over your shoulder and pick up a thing or two.
> 
> Good post and thanks for the pics.





If you can gas weld good, you will pick up tig welding easily. You can pick up some of the new air cooled tig welders at a fair price. I have an older water cooled Airco Tig welder that can be run all day if you want. For home use a small air cooled unit would be a good choice. If you can find someone close to you that has a tig and is willing to teach you, go for it. Another suggestion is to see if your local JC has a welding program, they will also teach tig welding. Once in the class you can use the facility to do your own welding. Just a suggestion.

As for tempering the blade. Before I welded the handle bolts on I re-heated the blade so it was a cherry red. I then quenched it in water. I used stones and a diamond stone to put an edge on the knife.

jerry-


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## BobL (May 22, 2010)

Nice work Jerry!



820wards said:


> As for tempering the blade. Before I welded the handle bolts on I re-heated the blade so it was a cherry red. I then quenched it in water. I used stones and a diamond stone to put an edge on the knife.



I always thought that a rapid quench after a cherry red like that would fully harden the blade and that it could also tend to make it brittle.? May you rehardened the file since you cut the edge off the file with a plasma cutter?

I thought tempering was what is done after hardening to ease the hardening back so that a tool can be sharpened more easily and to make it less brittle?

When I use (already very hard) files for woodworking tools I cutting them with a water cooled fine kerf abrasive cutting wheel. Keeping the metal cool does not destroy the hardness of the file so I don't have to reharden it 

Then I temper the files by placing them in an oven on a metal tray for about an hour at 465F where they develop a straw yellow color on the surface.


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## jimdad07 (May 22, 2010)

BobL said:


> Nice work Jerry!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If I were to make a draw knife blade out of an old leaf spring, will I need to temper it after putting an edge on it?


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## HUCKLEBERRY (May 22, 2010)

820wards said:


> If you can gas weld good, you will pick up tig welding easily. You can pick up some of the new air cooled tig welders at a fair price. I have an older water cooled Airco Tig welder that can be run all day if you want. For home use a small air cooled unit would be a good choice. If you can find someone close to you that has a tig and is willing to teach you, go for it. Another suggestion is to see if your local JC has a welding program, they will also teach tig welding. Once in the class you can use the facility to do your own welding. Just a suggestion.
> 
> jerry-



I'd love to find an older TIG unit at a bargain and get into it. I've done some gas welding and I'm pretty sure I could work through the Tig basics pretty quickly but if another large piece of equipment "shows up" in my garage my wife might make me sleep with it.


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## BobL (May 22, 2010)

jimdad07 said:


> If I were to make a draw knife blade out of an old leaf spring, will I need to temper it after putting an edge on it?



There are 3 basic heat treatment processes. Hardening (name says it all) and Tempering (reduces hardness) and Annealing (reduces the hardness right back to as soft as the steel can be)

Spring steel is already close to as hard as it can get so what heat treatment it needs depends how you cut the spring to shape. If you use an angle grinder or oxy or any method that turns the steel a blue colour then the steel has been annealed and will need to be *hardened*. 

If you wanted to cut the spring with a hack saw then you may deliberately want to anneal it, this is done by heating it to cherry read and then just let it cool slowly in air.

Of course once it is annealed it will be too soft and lose it's edge too easily even in wood so it will need to be rehardened. This is done by the method described by jerry, get it nice and red hot then and quench it directly into water. The quenching method and liquid depends on the type of steel, but leaf spring I believe can be quenched into water.

Then, if you need to (it's not essential but it makes the steel less brittle and easier to sharpen) the steel should be tempered. This is done by heating to a specific temperature or color.
eg http://www.bluebladesteel.com/temper_colors_chart.html

I heat wood working blades to 465F for an hour - this makes the edge hard enough to maintain an edge but not so brittle that chips of metal will break off the edge if it hits something hard.


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## TraditionalTool (May 22, 2010)

BobL said:


> If you wanted to cut the spring with a hack saw then you may deliberately want to anneal it, this is done by heating it to cherry read and then just let it cool slowly in air.


When learning how to forge I was taught to anneal in ashes, as it slows down the cooling process. Just to add to your point, that if you stick it in ashes after you heat to cherry red, it will lengthen out the cooling process for better anneal treatment.


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## BobL (May 23, 2010)

TraditionalTool said:


> When learning how to forge I was taught to anneal in ashes, as it slows down the cooling process. Just to add to your point, that if you stick it in ashes after you heat to cherry red, it will lengthen out the cooling process for better anneal treatment.



Good point - 
If you have no ashes here's an alternative. At home if I have a number of items to anneal I use a gas BBQ flame, around which I build a small closed chamber out of fire bricks and a couple of bits of angle iron to support the steel. After heating to cherry red I kill the flame and let the whole thing cool down over a few hours. Try to do it in still air if possible.

At work we have electric furnaces and it can be programmed to perform a controlled cool down overnight.


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## 820wards (May 23, 2010)

TraditionalTool said:


> When learning how to forge I was taught to anneal in ashes, as it slows down the cooling process. Just to add to your point, that if you stick it in ashes after you heat to cherry red, it will lengthen out the cooling process for better anneal treatment.




Would I use wood ashes or bone ash like case hardening on firearms?

The method I used was taught to me by my neighbor who shoes horses and does blacksmithing. All I know is that it worked for me and my knife is still sharp after a lot of use. 

Bob, your access to an electric oven would be the optimum method of getting the metal to a specific temp for tempering. I'll bet your tools stay rea sharp for a long time?

jerry-


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## Ted J (May 23, 2010)

BobL said:


> Good point -
> If you have no ashes here's an alternative. At home if I have a number of items to anneal I use a gas BBQ flame, around which I build a small closed chamber out of fire bricks and a couple of bits of angle iron to support the steel. After heating to cherry red I kill the flame and let the whole thing cool down over a few hours. Try to do it in still air if possible.
> 
> At work we have electric furnaces and it can be programmed to perform a controlled cool down overnight.



Here is an article with a chart near the bottom on the temps used for different hardness depending on the type of tools.

http://chestofbooks.com/architecture/Building-Construction-3-3/Hardening-And-Tempering-Of-Steel.html

Ted


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## 820wards (May 23, 2010)

BobL
There are 3 basic heat treatment processes. Hardening (name says it all) and Tempering (reduces hardness) and Annealing (reduces the hardness right back to as soft as the steel can be)



Bob,

Thanks for this info. I've been thinking of making a curved knife for hollowing bowls and such. I'll have to make the curve once I get the metal to a temp I can wrap it around a cylinder and get the curve shape I want. Thanks again.

jerry-


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## TraditionalTool (May 23, 2010)

820wards said:


> Would I use wood ashes or bone ash like case hardening on firearms?


Sure, any type of ash provides insulation, which in turn extend the cooling properties as it keeps the air from getting to it.

I have always used coal ashes. Bone ashes would tend to smell, at least bone has a foul odor when it burns. If you have ever burned a tang into a antler, it has the same smell.


820wards said:


> The method I used was taught to me by my neighbor who shoes horses and does blacksmithing. All I know is that it worked for me and my knife is still sharp after a lot of use.


The "still sharp" part comes from tempering it. That is done by quenching in some type of oil, any type of old transmission oil, or car oil will work. In that case quench after it's cherry red. In the case of annealing, just stick the cherry red metal in the ashes and leave it for a few hours if possible.


820wards said:


> Bob, your access to an electric oven would be the optimum method of getting the metal to a specific temp for tempering. I'll bet your tools stay rea sharp for a long time?
> 
> 
> > Gas forge is better as it cools slowly, and acts similar to the electric oven which Bob mentioned. The forge takes quite a while to cool down as the insulation retains the heat inside. works nicely, no ashes needed.
> ...


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## NEP (May 31, 2010)

Here is my 2 homemade draw knives:






The top one is made from a car spring, the handles are welded and the blade is hardened.

The green one is made from a silage cutter blade and the handles are welded. It was already hardened.


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## WesternSaw (May 31, 2010)

*Handles*

I have never used any kind of a draw knife, although I have a small one that I will post up eventually.Now the way I see the handles coming straight off the blades for the user to hang on to, it makes me think ergonomically, that they would be better if the came out of the blade and then made an upswing,not necessarily a 90 degree angle, but some sort of an angle.Am I way out to lunch on this?
Lawrence


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## TraditionalTool (May 31, 2010)

petesoldsaw said:


> I have never used any kind of a draw knife, although I have a small one that I will post up eventually.Now the way I see the handles coming straight off the blades for the user to hang on to, it makes me think ergonomically, that they would be better if the came out of the blade and then made an upswing,not necessarily a 90 degree angle, but some sort of an angle.Am I way out to lunch on this?
> Lawrence


There are two schools of though, bevel up and bevel down. There is a point where you can use the blade either way, and that is useful.

Also consider that although it is called a drawknife, you can push them as well.

Like all tools, it's good to have a few different ones to understand and know what you prefer. You should use your some and you'll probably gain more understanding of the handles. 

I will also add that I use a pattern maker's vise (Emmert clone) when I drawknife/shave, but having a shaving horse is the best. Worth spending the time to build if you plan to use a drawknife some, unless your planning to peel logs, that's another beast in itself.


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## WesternSaw (May 31, 2010)

*Drawknife*

Explanation appreciated!
Lawrence


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## Hillbilly3995 (Jun 1, 2010)

Pete, if the point of work, (cut) is in front of your wrists, as you pull it it will be very difficult to use. the standard design puts the cut between and or behind the wrists so you can control the tool. Think of it as pushing or pulling a chain.


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