# First Stump Grinder



## DST0922 (Oct 16, 2017)

Hello and thank you to anybody talking the time to read this. I have been in lawn and Landscape for the past 15+ years as a part time job to supplement income for my family. 
Lately I have been getting more and more stump grinding jobs and enjoy the work - I think I could name a go at it and cut back on mowing. 
My options to buy are either a used Vermeer 252 $12500, Used Vermeer Sc30TX $12500 (both around 150hrs), new Vermeer Sc30TX $16500, or new Bandit 1844 $16800. 
I know many will say anything under 40hp is worthless, but within 4 hours of me these are my only options in my price range. I know 27hp isn't great, but it has certainly always gotten everything job done for me in the past when renting. 
Any input on which one of these is the best value would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Dave


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## BC WetCoast (Oct 17, 2017)

The smaller machines will do the job, if you can afford the time. Also, you can usually get the smaller machines into stumps with tougher access. You have to assess your market. Some guys are in markets with easy access, such as no fences or gates. Personally, our market has lots of fences, gates, fancy landscaping and steep ground, so our machine needs will vary accordingly. 

If you have a choice, I would suggest you get hydraulic drive motor for the wheel rather than a belt drive (we had both bandit and vermeer and they both ate belts and bearings - although they also had a variety of operators and sketchy maintenance). 

I found that being efficient getting the machine off and on the trailer, onto the stump, talking to the customer and cleanup could overcome the time lost due to an underpowered machine.


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## DST0922 (Oct 17, 2017)

BC WetCoast said:


> The smaller machines will do the job, if you can afford the time. Also, you can usually get the smaller machines into stumps with tougher access. You have to assess your market. Some guys are in markets with easy access, such as no fences or gates. Personally, our market has lots of fences, gates, fancy landscaping and steep ground, so our machine needs will vary accordingly.
> 
> If you have a choice, I would suggest you get hydraulic drive motor for the wheel rather than a belt drive (we had both bandit and vermeer and they both ate belts and bearings - although they also had a variety of operators and sketchy maintenance).
> 
> I found that being efficient getting the machine off and on the trailer, onto the stump, talking to the customer and cleanup could overcome the time lost due to an underpowered machine.


Thank you for the advice - as a one man show doing this part time I do have a little advantage. I'm not paying someone to run machine or worry about them abusing it. The lower overhead also means I can shoot for the $75/hr range and still be or more profitable than I do mowing. I already have insurance, dump trailer, and other equipment to assist me. 
I believe both tracked units are hydrostatically driven cutters... Any big difference in the Bandit vs Vermeer? I noticed while the engine size is comparable, the Bandit wheel spins at over 2000rpm, while the Vermeer is just 1100 rpm... Bandit has green teeth and Vermeer has yellow jacket... Thoughts?

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## Cupocoffee (Oct 18, 2017)

DST0922 said:


> My options to buy are either a used Vermeer 252 $12500, Used Vermeer Sc30TX $12500 (both around 150hrs), new Vermeer Sc30TX $16500, or new Bandit 1844 $16800.



Of the four machines you have listed, I would go with the new Bandit ZT1844. The Vermeer 252 is a real workhorse for a small machine but the key word above is USED. The other two Vermeer machines are operated from behind the grinder and you can't even see the stump. I'm not familiar with the Bandit 1844 but I did go watch a Youtube video of one and the operator station moves to the side where you can see the stump as you grind. I had a Vermeer 352 and sold it with only 450 hours and within a couple of months the buyer called and told me the engine had blown. It had the Daihatsu diesel engine and it seemed to be a common occurrence. I now have a Carlton SP7015 and am seriously thinking about getting a 7015TRX. With a new machine you know it has not been abused. You have a warranty if there are any issues. If you find it is a very profitable business, you can always sell what you have and move up. From what I have seen, there are many more stump grinders that go out of business than those that stay in business. You can make the same money, per stump, with a small machine than you can with a large machine. It will just take you much, much longer to get the job done. That works okay if you are doing five or six stumps but it might not work so good on jobs where you have fifty or a hundred stumps. There is so much to know about this business besides owning a new machine too. Good luck to you.


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## DST0922 (Oct 18, 2017)

Cupocoffee said:


> Of the four machines you have listed, I would go with the new Bandit ZT1844. The Vermeer 252 is a real workhorse for a small machine but the key word above is USED. The other two Vermeer machines are operated from behind the grinder and you can't even see the stump. I'm not familiar with the Bandit 1844 but I did go watch a Youtube video of one and the operator station moves to the side where you can see the stump as you grind. I had a Vermeer 352 and sold it with only 450 hours and within a couple of months the buyer called and told me the engine had blown. It had the Daihatsu diesel engine and it seemed to be a common occurrence. I now have a Carlton SP7015 and am seriously thinking about getting a 7015TRX. With a new machine you know it has not been abused. You have a warranty if there are any issues. If you find it is a very profitable business, you can always sell what you have and move up. From what I have seen, there are many more stump grinders that go out of business than those that stay in business. You can make the same money, per stump, with a small machine than you can with a large machine. It will just take you much, much longer to get the job done. That works okay if you are doing five or six stumps but it might not work so good on jobs where you have fifty or a hundred stumps. There is so much to know about this business besides owning a new machine too. Good luck to you.


Thank you for the advice

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## DST0922 (Oct 20, 2017)

DST0922 said:


> Thank you for the advice
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


Well I went with the 38hp bandit on tracks zt1844 - hopefully it's as good as the dealer claims

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## Cupocoffee (Oct 20, 2017)

Congratulations. I hope this works out for you. Don't be shy ... keep us posted on the pros and cons as you get used to it.


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## marne (Oct 22, 2017)

Congrats to your new machine.
Cupocoffe is right with mentioned above, the only thing I add is, stay away from this idea:



DST0922 said:


> The lower overhead also means I can shoot for the $75/hr range and still be or more profitable than I do mowing. I already have insurance, dump trailer, and other equipment to assist me.



Stump grinders are money eaters, and a mower is fun to maintain compared to a grinder, which daily needs your attention very bad.
As you've been in lawn business so long, you are pretty sure tired of lowballers, don't become one yourself in another business.


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## DST0922 (Oct 22, 2017)

marne said:


> Congrats to your new machine.
> Cupocoffe is right with mentioned above, the only thing I add is, stay away from this idea:
> 
> 
> ...


Yes i agree, my intention wasn't to come across as a low baller, but rather state my overhead was a little lower than some others....I appreciate all the advice, I have learned more in the last few months than I can believe, it's nice to take on a new challenge and have this resource.

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## howel07264 (Nov 9, 2017)

You should be able to generate at least $150 per hour with a 38hp machine.


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## DST0922 (Nov 9, 2017)

So far I'm in that range most the time... Need to be a little better about sticking with my gut on cleanup though.. Still afraid of letting woek go and ended up doing a few way to cheap... Learning curve

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## Jennifer Moore (Nov 17, 2017)

How much do you usually charge for tree stump removal


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Nov 19, 2017)

I usually charge between $75-$350 per job on stumps although I am seriously considering doubling my minimum. 

The rental place here stopped renting manual grinders, now all they have is a $300/day hydraulic grinder. 

Occasionally someone will save up a dozen or so stumps before they call. In those cases fifty bucks a stump is easy to sell.


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## DST0922 (Nov 19, 2017)

Somebody on one of these threads came up with a pretty good formula that I hijacked. By the inch below 30" then based on area above that, seems to work pretty good for me

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## Ross Speir (Dec 11, 2017)

DST0922 said:


> Well I went with the 38hp bandit on tracks zt1844 - hopefully it's as good as the dealer claims
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


How do you like the 1844, and how does it compare to Vermeer sc252? Interested in the unit due to price. Good price for a 38 hp grinder.


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## DST0922 (Dec 12, 2017)

I'm not a very reliable reviewer in terms of comparing this to another unit. I have never used the SC252. I do like my 1844, and knowing everything I know about it now, would still buy it again. The bang for your buck is hard to beat. I love the power, portability, swing controls, and ease of operation. Maintenance on it is fairly straightforward and not too time consuming. Most annoying things about it are : the 44" swing always seems like it is a few inches too short - most stumps I grind, I need to run through again on one side to finish off the root flare. It is a bit nose heavy - sometimes need to be careful on steeper slopes (it has never tipped, but it is narrow and long). I am very happy with the power, but we don't have terribly hard wood around here. The greenteeth are a nice bonus. 
If you have any questions in particular I'll try and answer for you.



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## Jennifer Moore (Dec 12, 2017)

DST0922 said:


> Somebody on one of these threads came up with a pretty good formula that I hijacked. By the inch below 30" then based on area above that, seems to work pretty good for me
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


I like that I think I may try it


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## howel07264 (Dec 13, 2017)

DST0922 said:


> So far I'm in that range most the time... Need to be a little better about sticking with my gut on cleanup though.. Still afraid of letting woek go and ended up doing a few way to cheap... Learning curve
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


My friend I have been grinding for 17 years and never hauled away debris. I always tell the customer up front that they will have to deal with chips. Over the years I might have lost maybe a dozen jobs. I do blow the drive or walkway but that is it. It would be easy to spend more time cleaning up than grinding.


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## Cupocoffee (Dec 13, 2017)

howel07264 said:


> My friend I have been grinding for 17 years and never hauled away debris. I always tell the customer up front that they will have to deal with chips. Over the years I might have lost maybe a dozen jobs. I do blow the drive or walkway but that is it. It would be easy to spend more time cleaning up than grinding.


Same here. I have been grinding for nine years. I always tell my customers I will do a "rough coverup" of the hole but I do not haul off, rake, or landscape the area. I have NEVER lost a job because of that. My grinder has a blade on it so I will pull the chips back over the hole with the machine. If it is some old man or old woman (Okay, I am seventy years old so they have to be really old), who is infirm, I will spend more time on dressing it up but that is rare.


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## DST0922 (Dec 13, 2017)

Cupocoffee said:


> Same here. I have been grinding for nine years. I always tell my customers I will do a "rough coverup" of the hole but I do not haul off, rake, or landscape the area. I have NEVER lost a job because of that. My grinder has a blade on it so I will pull the chips back over the hole with the machine. If it is some old man or old woman (Okay, I am seventy years old so they have to be really old), who is infirm, I will spend more time on dressing it up but that is rare.


I envy you both...I don't have enough work to give up the extra money that goes along with the finish work. I'm still young, so the work isn't too taxing on me.

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## BC WetCoast (Dec 13, 2017)

Cupocoffee said:


> Same here. I have been grinding for nine years. I always tell my customers I will do a "rough coverup" of the hole but I do not haul off, rake, or landscape the area. I have NEVER lost a job because of that. My grinder has a blade on it so I will pull the chips back over the hole with the machine. If it is some old man or old woman (Okay, I am seventy years old so they have to be really old), who is infirm, I will spend more time on dressing it up but that is rare.



We'll haul mulch, but it's bid as a separate service, so the customer can accept the price or reject it. 

We do municipal grinding contracts and they always want the mulch hauled, then soil and seeded.


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## CanopyGorilla (Dec 14, 2017)

DST0922 said:


> I envy you both...I don't have enough work to give up the extra money that goes along with the finish work. I'm still young, so the work isn't too taxing on me.
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


I wouldn't get talked into the "never clean up" camp. We charge a lot more than those guys and take tons of work from them. Different clientele, different market. I want all my jobs to look tidy and clean when I leave. We also cater to a lot of fancier homes.


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## DST0922 (Dec 15, 2017)

CanopyGorilla said:


> I wouldn't get talked into the "never clean up" camp. We charge a lot more than those guys and take tons of work from them. Different clientele, different market. I want all my jobs to look tidy and clean when I leave. We also cater to a lot of fancier homes.


I agree, neither optipn is better or worse- usually nicer neighborhoods will pay a premium for clean up and then seed or sod. I always give the cleanup and topsoil price first, then let them know there are cheaper options if they want to do some work themselves... So far has worked well for me. 

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## DST0922 (Dec 19, 2017)

We have had an unbelievably mild winter in my area so far... But that is going to change quickly. Other than personally being cold and miserable - is there any certain temperature that you can't grind below? I say this because I am still getting calls and don't really know if it's possible to keep grinding as high temps get down into the 20s... Once again - Any advice would be greatly appreciated.



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## JeffGu (Jan 13, 2018)

I've ground a few in this weather... but I much prefer to wait until spring comes. Too many problems when it gets this cold. Just slow down and take your time when the stumps are frozen, and warm everything up in the driveway at home... don't go to the jobsite just to find out the machine is going to be a PITA and not want to start. Keep the battery on a maintainer.


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## Cupocoffee (Jan 13, 2018)

I was grinding today with beginning temperature at 23 degrees. Finished at 34 degrees. Dressed for it and never felt cold. I seriously underbid this job plus I let the customer talk me into lowering my price which I normally do not do. If the ground is wet and frozen, I don't know if I would do the job. I've never run into that so far.


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## The Warden (Jan 17, 2018)

i had been taught from early on that we do not clean up stump grindings for a variety of reasons that do make sense. However, it still gets me that after doing a good job in often difficult situations we are leaving behind a mound of crap on a clients lawn. Despite that we continue to sell it that way. It would be ideal to clean up, install soil, grade, sod or seed but that can almost triple the cost of the grinding itself. Based on that we rarely include clean up on a proposal unless it is requested in advance.


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 18, 2018)

The Warden said:


> i had been taught from early on that we do not clean up stump grindings for a variety of reasons that do make sense. However, it still gets me that after doing a good job in often difficult situations we are leaving behind a mound of crap on a clients lawn. Despite that we continue to sell it that way. It would be ideal to clean up, install soil, grade, sod or seed but that can almost triple the cost of the grinding itself. Based on that we rarely include clean up on a proposal unless it is requested in advance.



It's a compamy decision on how to sell and what to include in the service. I personally would quote it as grind stump, separate line for clean up, separate line for soil and seed. The customer can then choose a la carte.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 21, 2018)

Jennifer Moore said:


> How much do you usually charge for tree stump removal


Here 1 stump 125.00. I can do 50 or more at 12 dollars a stump locally I have entertained traveling as most in other area's make a lot more and beat their machines less we are granite,quartz, it is hard to find a square inch that is not rock here. I started with a small machine they don't cut the mustard here imo. Think dull first stump or two then slow going afterward but my 60 hp gets it done fast enough for me to see some profit. My best day was 128 stumps from 12" dbh to 46" at 12 dollars a stump but if i had used the 252 I would still be there grinding and that was a year ago


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## ropensaddle (Feb 21, 2018)

The Warden said:


> i had been taught from early on that we do not clean up stump grindings for a variety of reasons that do make sense. However, it still gets me that after doing a good job in often difficult situations we are leaving behind a mound of crap on a clients lawn. Despite that we continue to sell it that way. It would be ideal to clean up, install soil, grade, sod or seed but that can almost triple the cost of the grinding itself. Based on that we rarely include clean up on a proposal unless it is requested in advance.


Yup grind and go here or tripple the job, their choce lol


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## Jim Timber (Feb 21, 2018)

Is there much difference in grinding a dormant frozen stump than a thawed one?

I just had my place logged and I've got about 8-10 acres of stumps to whack. Was thinking I could start in on them before the ground got gooey and at least make some headway before the heat of summer kicks in.


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## no tree to big (Feb 21, 2018)

Jim Timber said:


> Is there much difference in grinding a dormant frozen stump than a thawed one?
> 
> I just had my place logged and I've got about 8-10 acres of stumps to whack. Was thinking I could start in on them before the ground got gooey and at least make some headway before the heat of summer kicks in.


I like grinding in frozen ground seems like less crap in the air. It's probably harder on the teeth tho... Do it either frozen or dry grinding in mud sucks! I just did a stump right next to a water main break (reason the tree was removed) once I got 8" down I couldn't even swing anymore I had to keep plunging straight down move over 3 inches then plunge straight down it was too gooey it took me way longer then a stump should like 4x as long atleast, and that's with a big tow behind! 

As far as when to stop grinding stumps due to temp? Never I've been on the golf coarse below zero and over a hundo our only real criteria is water content. 

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## Jim Timber (Feb 22, 2018)

Less DEET needed to keep the bugs from sucking you dry too! 

I really don't mind working in the 20's and 30's unless there's a clip of wind. Long john's and a pair of good gloves goes a long way. After the first couple weeks of Feb being -20F when I had to give daily instructions to the crew before sunrise, even the low teens don't feel all that bad now.

Next week's mid-30's looks downright pleasant to me. Might even break out the shorts.


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## Jennifer Moore (Feb 28, 2018)

ropensaddle said:


> Here 1 stump 125.00. I can do 50 or more at 12 dollars a stump locally I have entertained traveling as most in other area's make a lot more and beat their machines less we are granite,quartz, it is hard to find a square inch that is not rock here. I started with a small machine they don't cut the mustard here imo. Think dull first stump or two then slow going afterward but my 60 hp gets it done fast enough for me to see some profit. My best day was 128 stumps from 12" dbh to 46" at 12 dollars a stump but if i had used the 252 I would still be there grinding and that was a year ago


Wow thanks for the answer and that sounds like a hell of a day lol


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## ropensaddle (Feb 28, 2018)

Jennifer Moore said:


> Wow thanks for the answer and that sounds like a hell of a day lol


Sun up, to sun down yup


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## ropensaddle (Feb 28, 2018)

Jim Timber said:


> Is there much difference in grinding a dormant frozen stump than a thawed one?
> 
> I just had my place logged and I've got about 8-10 acres of stumps to whack. Was thinking I could start in on them before the ground got gooey and at least make some headway before the heat of summer kicks in.


Only difference is hard starting of the machine and cold operator. I grind in frozen ground that I could never access unless drought late August.


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## Jim Timber (Mar 3, 2018)

We got 12" of sugar-sand consistency snow last week, and finding stumps is "hit and miss" quite literally now.

I'm going to wait for the snow to melt before I worry about grinding anything.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 3, 2018)

Jim Timber said:


> We got 12" of sugar-sand consistency snow last week, and finding stumps is "hit and miss" quite literally now.
> 
> I'm going to wait for the snow to melt before I worry about grinding anything.


Whats snow ? 70s here today


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## Jim Timber (Mar 4, 2018)

We don't have flying bloodsucking insects for 6-7 months out of the year. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.


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