# Indoor wood boiler choices



## Limekiln (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm looking for feedback on the following indoor wood boilers: Greenwood, Tarm, New Horizon, and Black Bear.

I'll be building a new house and want to install a stand-alone boiler which will be backed up by oil or propane. I'm leaning towards the Tarm, since they've been in the business so long and are only a couple hours south of me in N.H.

Black Bear Boilers is a new company in Maine and the New Horizon is made in Europe and distributed out of W. Virginia I think. I don't know anything about the Greenwood.

If anyone owns an indoor boiler made by these companies or has any input I'd appreciate it. 

Thanks,
Limekiln


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## ktm rider (Nov 12, 2006)

Are you going to back up the wood boiler with a completley separate oil/propane furnace?? Your post dosn't mention this. If so, it would be alot more cost effective to just buy a wood boiler that already has the oil/propane backup right on the boiler itself. I recently built my house also and if you are like I was its all about saving money where you can.. 

Have you looked at the AHS boiler? I have the AHS multifuel ( wood/coal/oil ) and I love it. The oil only kicks on when the fire dies down. That way you are not a slave to the boiler... I had a wood eating OWB and thankfully I found someone to buy it. I put my AHS inside my garage and it is WAY,WAY more efficient than the OWB was. 

I looked at the Tarm but it didn't burn coal. I then looked at the New Horizon. It looks like a very good unit but they didn't offer the automatic oil backup. They might now but didn't last year when I was looking at them. 
I also looked at the Royall indoor coal boiler but there again no oil backup. 

I went with AHS for two reasons the first is the customer service is just simply outstanding. The owner (Jeff) answered my questions for a good half hour during my initial call. and I have probably called him 4-5 times since about little things and he is just great about it. 
Also, when i called him initially, I was prepared for the usual rhetoric from a dealer/salesman about outragous burn times and how much more efficient superior their unit is compared to others ,,, you know the deal.. Well, he was totally honest about burn times and did not try to B.S. me into buying his unit. 
Secondly, and this is a important feature with opil backup, The oil burning chamber is a separate chamber from the wood chamber. That way the fly ash doesn't plug up the oil burner. I believe AHS is the only one that has this feature. ( if you look at the pic on the website of the multifuel boiler the oil chamber is the round part on the back) 

SO, to "Boil" it down I would highly recommend AHS. Also have you looked into a Gasifier unit. They work great if you are going to burn wood only. My co worker has the AHS gasifier " woodgun" and he loves it. It is pricy but not as pricy as Tarms gasifier and it will take much larger pieces of wood then the tarm.. I wanted to burn coal so I went with the multifuel.. 

http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/

I hope this helps you out... 
Shawn,


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## Limekiln (Nov 12, 2006)

Shawn,
This will be a stand alone wood boiler with an oil or propane back-up. I don't want a combination unit. I definitly want a gasification boiler.
The New Horizon boilers look like a good option. They are less expensive than Tarm but I'm leery of the warrenty. I'd like to hear from someone who has one.
Thanks


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## ktm rider (Nov 12, 2006)

Limekiln said:


> Shawn,
> This will be a stand alone wood boiler with an oil or propane back-up. I don't want a combination unit. I definitly want a gasification boiler.
> The New Horizon boilers look like a good option. They are less expensive than Tarm but I'm leery of the warrenty. I'd like to hear from someone who has one.
> Thanks



I don't know anyone that has the New Horizon gasifier. I looked hard at the Tarm and I believe they quoted me a price of a whopping $10,000 !!! and the wood has to be cut pretty small to fit in the firebox. I know my co worker really likes his AHS gasifier.

The New Horizon looks like it needs a whole lot of accessories to run efficient. I could be wrong about that though. 
Gasification is the only way to go in my opinion, if you only want to burn wood. They seem to heat alot better and are way more efficient . If someone would have made a wood/coal gasifier I would have bought one in a minute. 

Why in the world would anyone buy an OWB when these gasifiers are readily available? When I bought my OWB Gasifiers were not on the market yet. I think it is simply because peple do not know about the gasifiers and the advantages they have over the OWB's. I would have boughta wood gasifier but I have an unlimited supply of very cheap coal in my area ( $45-65 a ton) and it burns really well. I spent $250 last year to heat my 3,500sq ft. home that is on top of a very cold mountain.. 


One tip, if you are buying out of state, tell them that you seen their boiler on the web. That way you don't have to pay taxes. This saved me about $400.


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## ktm rider (Nov 12, 2006)

I found another one for you to look at.

http://www.alternativefuelboilers.com/index.htm


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## SWI Don (Nov 23, 2006)

Here is the Seton website. They have links at the bottom to several of their competition of which some have been mentioned already.

http://www.rohor.com/

Don


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## Boundaryh20 (Nov 29, 2006)

I agree...I did have a OWB and loved it, but it sure went through the wood. The OWB sprang a leak (it was 16 years old) and I ended up buying a New Horizon (EKO-Line 60). I am hoping to burn half the wood and will heat house (2400sqft), garage (920 sqft), domestic hot water (three kids, wife), and future shop/garage (2200 sqft). I always get my wood for free, usually just have to cut it.

This gasification unit is coming in at about the same about of money as the OWB. There will be alittle extra plumbing with this unit.

And one other advantage (I hope), is alot less ash.

Good luck
Bryan




ktm rider said:


> I don't know anyone that has the New Horizon gasifier. I looked hard at the Tarm and I believe they quoted me a price of a whopping $10,000 !!! and the wood has to be cut pretty small to fit in the firebox. I know my co worker really likes his AHS gasifier.
> 
> The New Horizon looks like it needs a whole lot of accessories to run efficient. I could be wrong about that though.
> Gasification is the only way to go in my opinion, if you only want to burn wood. They seem to heat alot better and are way more efficient . If someone would have made a wood/coal gasifier I would have bought one in a minute.
> ...


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## Limekiln (Nov 29, 2006)

Boundary,
Have you installed the new boiler yet? I'll be curious to hear how you like it this winter. How was your experience with New Horizon? 

Thanks,
Limekiln


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## Boundaryh20 (Nov 30, 2006)

Limekiln:

The unit is currently being shipped. I am hoping to have it up and running within acouple weeks. 

So far, all the people that I have dealt with on this unit have been great. The hardest part for me was the actual decision. I was going to buy another AquaTherm OWB, but the more research I did, the more I leaned towards an efficient gasification unit. Whether people agree with it or not, the days of OWB's are probably limited. 

Tarm was at the top of my list...but the cost and they really want a "heat storage system" installed with the unit. 

Good luck,
Bryan


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## Hansson (Dec 3, 2006)

I got a Tarm "baxi solo innova" Iam verry satisfied whit it
Check out my equipment.

http://www.freewebs.com/hansson29/byteavvedpanna.htm
http://www.freewebs.com/hansson29/merbilder.htm


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## ktm250rider (Mar 24, 2007)

Im inbetween an indoor boiler and an OWB. I have a lot of pine and hemlock to burn. Do these indoor units burn softwoods efficiently? My other problem, i dont currently have a chimney. As these are pretty good investments, i was thinking that i could run a SS flue for the first couple of years and then get a masonary chimeny built. 
Ive looked a little at the Tarm and Greenwood.


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## ktm rider (Mar 24, 2007)

KTM250 rider, ( nice name by the way ) 

These indoor wood only boilers are gasifier units. The wood needs to be dry, very dry for a gasifer to work properly. I have a multifuel that burns wood coal and oil and IS NOT a gasifier. There is a HUGE difference between to two. If you are only going to burn wood and no coal at all I would go with a gasifier for sure. They are very efficient but are only made by a few manufacturers. 

Also, I had a 40 ft. masonry chimney built for $600 total by a local block layer. My buddy bought a 20 ft. stainless steel chimney last year for $2,000 !!! 
I don't think a SS temporary flue would be a wise financial decision.


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## Sodboa (Mar 25, 2007)

Your buddy got ripped off. Should be about $300 and some more for labor or do it yourself.  

Check Ebay.

Oh and the insulation $200 more for the kit.

You also got a deal for that chimney at 6 hundy.


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## ktm rider (Mar 27, 2007)

Sodboa said:


> Your buddy got ripped off. Should be about $300 and some more for labor or do it yourself.
> 
> Check Ebay.
> 
> ...



Yep !! That is what I tried to tell him. He insisted that was the going price for what he was buying. The guys that built my masonry chimney are VERY good at what they do and obviously very cheap. My buddies stainless looks like crap already and he only had it 2 years.


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## ktm250rider (Apr 18, 2007)

I just got a flier in the mail from Tarm and an email from AHS. The Tarm Solo plus 60 listed at 6,745 ( no heat storage) and the EBW200 at 8,900.

New Horizon recommends wood at 20% moisture, is that considered dry?


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## Mr. Firewood (Apr 19, 2007)

ktm250rider said:


> New Horizon recommends wood at 20% moisture, is that considered dry?



not by my standards for oak and hickory, but for ash/silver maple/box elder it will burn


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## Hansson (Apr 5, 2009)

I have an Tarm Innova and it works really fine.

No smoke and easy to clean.

500 gallon tank.Check out my system online 
http://web.telia.com/~u88408780/


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## atlarge54 (Apr 5, 2009)

Go to ********** and under forums, go to the boiler room. There's more information on gasifiers than anywhere I know of. Any wood boiler should have some form of automatic electric backup. When I see the prices on some of these boiler systems it just seems unbelievable. Most of those with gasifiers seem to love 'em. OWB's are wood hogs but I'd have to be 30 years younger to ever see a payback on a gasifier.


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## Fishhead (Apr 5, 2009)

I personally don't like the draft an indoor wood fire creates. Do the new indoor wood boilers have a fresh air vent for the burn? If not I highly recommend installing one some how. I'm also a worry wort and have zero flames in my home. Electric stove and my OWB takes care of everything else. I looked into the indoor boilers and was considering buying the HS Tarm due to the fact you see them 25 years old still working. But after a chimney fire I crossed out that plan.


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## Bob Walsh (Dec 16, 2009)

I think the indoor variety is great but when it comes to saving your valuable indoor real-estate space, this is simply a better choice. The way these work is basically the same as the indoor unit but the whole boiler is outside and has a vent to track the heat produced into the home.


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## tibikedad (Dec 16, 2009)

I have the dual-fuel (wood with oil backup) Tarm Excel 2200, the bigger of the two units, with a 820 gallon storage unit. This is my 4th season burning, and as long as I burn dry wood that has been seasoned ~1 year, I have had no problems with it. Except for when the weather drops below 0 degrees at night, I easily make it through the night with plenty of heat left in the storage tank. When the weather is in the 40 degrees F region, I can make it 2 days on a single burn (I have a 3000 sq ft house and keep the temp at 69 degrees everywhere).

The Excel has a separate section for the oil burner / exchange tubes, so there is no mixing of wood and oil. The oil can be set to kick in when the tank drops below a set point (I put mine at 140 degrees, and it rarely fires). However, if I leave the house in the winter for a few days, I don't have to worry about anything freezing.

No matter what boiler you get, you should invest in a storage tank. It makes the whole setup much more efficient, and you are not a slave to the boiler. If I could do this again, the only difference would be to increase the size of the tank to 1200 gallons. That would give me 50% more storage heat.

BTW, I also get all my domestic hot water from the storage tank. I essentially have unlimited hot water, a plus when you have teen-agers who don't care how long they take a shower.

One last thing ... don't trust a plumber to know how to install a wood boiler unless he/she talks to the Tarm technicians first. I had a plumber who "knew everything", and he screwed it up badly. It took me 2 weeks and tons of phone calls to Tarm before we was able to figure out what the plumber did wrong. The technicians were great, and I was thrilled with their knowledge and patience. In the end, the plumber fixed his mistakes, but if he had discussed the installation first, none of that would have happened.


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## BioMan (Sep 11, 2011)

*Don't buy a greenwood furnace*



ktm250rider said:


> Im inbetween an indoor boiler and an OWB. I have a lot of pine and hemlock to burn. Do these indoor units burn softwoods efficiently? My other problem, i dont currently have a chimney. As these are pretty good investments, i was thinking that i could run a SS flue for the first couple of years and then get a masonary chimeny built.
> Ive looked a little at the Tarm and Greenwood.


 
I would stay away from Greenwood. I bought a 200,000BTU unit 3.5 years ago and had nothing but problems with it. The company would not support their product and finally went bankrupt. Several of the employees started up again and are marketing stoves again but no matter what they say on their web site, they don't know how to make a good wood boiler.


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## AIM (Sep 11, 2011)

Dredged this one up from the archives...:msp_w00t:


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## winterpalm (Nov 20, 2011)

*Tarm boiler warranty is no good.*

I bought a Tarm wood gasification boiler 6 years ago and it started to leak after 4 years. I took the insulated side off and one of the welded “stay rods” where the inner and outer walls are held together was cracked around the weld.
I contacted Scott Nichols at Tarm USA and filled out a warranty form. I got a quote from Morehead Boiler to fix it and pressure test it.
Tarm said they would not pay that amount. It cost too much they said.

I then had to weld it myself and hope for the best. It stopped the leak.

I’m not happy that Tarm which is a 30PSI boiler tells me it can be welded by a non certified welder and Tarm won’t pay for a certified shop to fix this factory defect. I thought all pressure vessels over 15 PSI had to be welded by an ASME welder.
So I resubmitted a claim form for my time and haven’t heard back in 6 months.

So Tarms warranty is worthless. I wouldn’t buy one if they don’t stand behind there product.

I still need to buy parts so I don’t want to put my name here as you can imagine.

I added an e-mail from Tarm below. Note that they say there boiler is not a code boiler, but I see 30 PSI stamped on the boiler tag.

E-mail from Tarm back to my dealer.

Thank you for sending these over. I find the quote for repair welding to be a bit of an over-shoot. There are entire boilers that don’t cost that much to make (materials and labor) and we are talking about a pin hole leak. Moorhead Machinery is probably not the right place to go for this type of small residential repair. This company probably is typically performing repairs on multi-million Btu boilers that are located at power plants, and large commercial/industrial buildings. If your customer insists on using this company, please ask for a quote without the hydro-testing and code repair stamp. The boiler is not a code boiler and therefore does not need to be hydro-tested so that it can be code stamped. A new quote from a company scaled for residential work rather than power plants is recommended. 

Feeling good about wood,
Scott Nichols
Tarm USA, Inc.

800-782-9927 x- 102


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