# Sawzall Battery Won't Keep a Charge



## TNTreeHugger (Apr 13, 2017)

Last year, after carefully considering all the expert advice I received from you guys, I decided to go with the sawzall instead of the chain saw... and I LOVE it. It's perfect for cleaning up the yard, especially the fencerow.

This is what I bought, along with the pruning blades, at Lowes:
http://www.portercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=30355#



Just started using it again this year and I can't get more than 5-15 minutes of use out of the damn thing before the battery goes dead. I'm cutting privet and small trees in the fencerow, 1" to 6" diameter.
I have two batteries, but still, I can't get much done at one time.
Is this normal???
Is something wrong with the batteries?? The charger??
I notice a faint odor coming from the charger when it's on and it also makes a faint humming sound. Is this normal??

I'll never get this work done going at this pace.
Any suggestions or ideas?


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## hedge hog (Apr 13, 2017)

I hate to say it but yes 
Out of all the lithium ion batteries out there they are the worst 
And they are a lower amp per hour sorry to say all of that but I use them every day and wish I had my dewalt 


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## TNTreeHugger (Apr 13, 2017)

hedge hog said:


> I hate to say it but yes
> Out of all the lithium ion batteries out there they are the worst
> And they are a lower amp per hour sorry to say all of that but I use them every day and wish I had my dewalt
> 
> ...


Are there other, better, batteries I can use with this saw?


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## grizz55chev (Apr 13, 2017)

TNTreeHugger said:


> Are there other, better, batteries I can use with this saw?


Most times the batteries cost as much to replace as the tool - battery combo. I love my Dewalt tools, a good friend swears by Ryobi products


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## Ted Jenkins (Apr 14, 2017)

Batteries do not last long period. Not sure if wear out is the right word or not, but they go bad. About a month ago I found some high amp hour batteries on sale so I bought eight of them and installed them into my old battery cases. Works very well and last 15 to 20 minutes of heavy use. It took me more than a 10 hour day to change them all so not sure if it would be better just to buy new batteries. My experience tells me that you need at least four batteries fully charged to do anything and never use a fast charger. The fast charge systems work fast and lets the battery get pretty warm. So slow charging seems to work best. I started using a sawzall to limb trees while climbing. It seemed like a dumb idea until it proved to work pretty smooth. Thanks


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## hedge hog (Apr 14, 2017)

TNTreeHugger said:


> Are there other, better, batteries I can use with this saw?



I think they have a XR battery out



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## anlrolfe (Apr 14, 2017)

I REALLY like my Milwaukee brand batteries and tools. I've used their "Hacks-All" to clear 2"-4" vines entangled along my fence but nothing as big as you have.

I've been the most disappointed with RYOBI batteries. Someone told me that they are actually owned by Milwaukee...


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## TNTreeHugger (Apr 14, 2017)

Ted Jenkins said:


> Batteries do not last long period. Not sure if wear out is the right word or not, but they go bad. About a month ago I found some high amp hour batteries on sale so I bought eight of them and installed them into my old battery cases. Works very well and last 15 to 20 minutes of heavy use. It took me more than a 10 hour day to change them all so not sure if it would be better just to buy new batteries. My experience tells me that you need at least four batteries fully charged to do anything and never use a fast charger. The fast charge systems work fast and lets the battery get pretty warm. So slow charging seems to work best. I started using a sawzall to limb trees while climbing. It seemed like a dumb idea until it proved to work pretty smooth. Thanks


That was the first , well second, thing I thought of when I got only 15 min. of work out of a charge - what the heck does a professional do to get through a days work... carry around sacksful of extra batteries all day long??? You answered that question! 

I saved the original receipt (always) and I bought it last June, so I think I'll go back to Lowes and see if they will replace them. If not, I'll see if they have something better that will work. Also need some new pruning blades.
Yeah, I love this little saw! I can cut right down to, or slightly below ground level so I'll be able to mow right over the little stumps I can't dig out.  
The reason I'm having to do this year after year is because previously, the person who cut out the junk left 3" to 4" stumps that I couldn't mow over so all the crap eventually just came back again and with a vengeance. Hopefully, this will be the last time!

After I get all the junk out, I'm going to replant with some nice cedars, for an eventual wind break, and some low shrubs for erosion control and wildlife habitat. I don't want anything that will get too big since I've planted my Sequoiadendrons near that fencerow.I'm afraid all the squirrels in the yard are having to find new escape routes from the dog now with all the trees gone.


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## Scablands (Apr 14, 2017)

Milwaukee has, hands down, the best LiON batteries on the market. You'll need their brand tools, however.


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## TNTreeHugger (Apr 14, 2017)

Scablands said:


> Milwaukee has, hands down, the best LiON batteries on the market. You'll need their brand tools, however.


That's what I'll be shopping for then since the "customer service" guy at Lowes wouldn't swap out the batteries/charger... said I had to return the entire package. I said that's even better since I've been told it's crap anyway.


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## Scablands (Apr 14, 2017)

TNTreeHugger said:


> That's what I'll be shopping for then since the "customer service" guy at Lowes wouldn't swap out the batteries/charger... said I had to return the entire package. I said that's even better since I've been told it's crap anyway.



http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...-Capacity-Battery-2-Pack-48-11-1822/203806673

You will want a Milwaukee set that has the M18 XC batteries for use with a Sawzall (which I have and is excellent). I have the 3Ah (54Wh) units shown in the link and they're great for homeowner use. If you're doing lots of pruning or tree removal, you may want to step up to the 5Ah. See link above. Milwaukee batteries are expensive, but they are excellent. Don't let anyone talk you into Rigid, Ryobi or any other brand. Those are cheaper because they cheap out on the battery cells, which is why you're having issues. Milwaukee batteries are a favorite of counterfeiters, so buy from places like Lowes and Home Depot and you'll get the genuine article. Amazon is a crap shoot. Occasionally, Home Depot will sell two XC batteries for $99 online. 

As far as care and feeding, don't store them empty, and don't leave them out in a shed where it gets well-below freezing for an extended period (got that tip from my neighbor who services power tools professionally), and the batteries will last for years. I think mine are four years old and still hold a great charge. I have six and none have gone bad yet. That will likely change soon, but I've gotten a lot of use out of them, so I'm good with it. 

Milwaukee has a 3 year warranty on batteries and five years on the tools, btw. 

Good luck!


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## TNTreeHugger (Apr 14, 2017)

Scablands said:


> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...-Capacity-Battery-2-Pack-48-11-1822/203806673
> 
> You will want a Milwaukee set that has the M18 XC batteries for use with a Sawzall (which I have and is excellent). I have the 3Ah (54Wh) units shown in the link and they're great for homeowner use. If you're doing lots of pruning or tree removal, you may want to step up to the 5Ah. See link above. Milwaukee batteries are expensive, but they are excellent. Don't let anyone talk you into Rigid, Ryobi or any other brand. Those are cheaper because they cheap out on the battery cells, which is why you're having issues. Milwaukee batteries are a favorite of counterfeiters, so buy from places like Lowes and Home Depot and you'll get the genuine article. Amazon is a crap shoot. Occasionally, Home Depot will sell two XC batteries for $99 online.
> 
> ...


OMG $140 for the batteries? They better be good!  And $180 for the saw. I could rent a track hoe for a day for that much - and be done with it. 
Although, if they take this one back, that'll be $180 towards it.
I'll have to give this some thought.

As always, thanks for the expert advice.


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## ANewSawyer (Apr 14, 2017)

Don't run out and buy anything yet. Tool sales aren't going. Wait for (I know, I know) Father's day and you will get better deals. Some are going now. Check out Acme Tools website. Nice people.

Actually, if you were to go that route, Dewalt's Flexvolt kits have a deal we you buy a $379 two battery kit and get a free battery or drill. A $150 value!

Link: http://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/dewalt-flexvolt-60v-max-brushless-reciprocating-saw-dcs388t2


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## ANewSawyer (Apr 14, 2017)

Nice comparison: 

I have heard from other sources that milwaukee is still the best maker of sawzalls. Pick the company who's tools fit your hands the best.

One last thing, batteries come partially charged, you are supposed to charge them before first use. I just found that out.


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## TNTreeHugger (Apr 14, 2017)

ANewSawyer said:


> Nice comparison:
> 
> I have heard from other sources that milwaukee is still the best maker of sawzalls. Pick the company who's tools fit your hands the best.
> 
> One last thing, batteries come partially charged, you are supposed to charge them before first use. I just found that out.



Great video! My vote is for the Milwaukee, slimline, lighter weight, better warranty.
However... my kit came with a skill saw, a drill, two batteries and charger, and a nifty little flashlight, all for $179. Seeing as I probably won't be using it much after I get through with the fencerow, I think I'll cope with what I have and when the batteries are ready for the trash, I'll just get new batteries.
Will these work with my tools and charger?
https://www.lowes.com/pd/PORTER-CAB...-Hours-Lithium-Power-Tool-Batteries/999948428





This is what I have now...


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## ANewSawyer (Apr 15, 2017)

I think those batteries will work and you will find them better suited to your task.


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## anlrolfe (Apr 15, 2017)

Don't go higher voltage.... there's a point of "diminishing returns" with internal losses in these batteries.

GO BRUSHLESS, these motors have better power output, better efficiency and longer battery run time.
If you can't get it done with 18v brushless then crank up the gasoline engine.


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## ANewSawyer (Apr 15, 2017)

Hey, Treehugger, you ever use a string trimmer or leaf blower? Some of these more expensive battery platforms have those for tools.


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## 1Alpha1 (Apr 15, 2017)

That's the down-side to power tools that are battery powered. Sooner or later, the batteries will go dead and you'll soon find out just how really expensive they are to replace.

I have some DeWalt battery powered tools. The batteries in them are the old school Ni-Cad. They "seem" to hold up a bit better then the Li-On batteries do. Maybe it's just my imagination too?

Yes, cordless power tools are handy, but they will cost you money to keep um going.


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## TNTreeHugger (Apr 15, 2017)

ANewSawyer said:


> Hey, Treehugger, you ever use a string trimmer or leaf blower? Some of these more expensive battery platforms have those for tools.


Nope. I got about 15 minutes use out of a weed eater, I bought new several years ago, before my arms fell off. Too heavy for me.  Never used a leaf blower. I let the wind blow them into my neighbors yard ... the little bit left over, I rake up.
Now, if I were a professional contractor, or had a business where I'd use these, I go for the better option. But, seeing as once the fencerow is cleaned up I'll be using the little flashlight more often than the sawzall, I think I'd be better off, money-wise, to stick with what I've got and hope these batteries last long enough to finish the job. Hell, after 10-15 minutes of using the sawzall, I'm ready for a break anyway.


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## TNTreeHugger (Apr 15, 2017)

Free Will said:


> That's the down-side to power tools that are battery powered. Sooner or later, the batteries will go dead and you'll soon find out just how really expensive they are to replace.
> 
> I have some DeWalt battery powered tools. The batteries in them are the old school Ni-Cad. They "seem" to hold up a bit better ten the Li-On batteries do. Maybe it's just my imagination too?
> 
> Yes, cordless power tools are handy, but they will cost you money to keep um going.


True, and I had no idea just how expensive they are. heck, they're just like the ink cartridges for printers - when it goes empty, you might as well just buy a new printer rather than replace the ink. ... well, almost. Depends on the quality of the printer.


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## 1Alpha1 (Apr 17, 2017)

TNTreeHugger said:


> True, and I had no idea just how expensive they are. heck, they're just like the ink cartridges for printers - when it goes empty, you might as well just buy a new printer rather than replace the ink. ... well, almost. Depends on the quality of the printer.




Yes, that's one of the scams in the power tool industry that they don't like to talk about. Over-priced replacement batteries and the fact, that every few years, they come out with a new design of tool that make all previous ones obsolete.

I'll keep the cordless tools that I have, but there's no way in Hell I'm going to buy a new one, only to find out that in a few years, the battery I need for it is now no longer available.

Either that, or I'm going to start buying the el cheapo versions @ Harbor Freight, get a year or two of service, then just toss um when the batteries start going bad.


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## TNTreeHugger (Apr 17, 2017)

Free Will said:


> Yes, that's one of the scams in the power tool industry that they don't like to talk about. Over-priced replacement batteries and the fact, that every few years, they come out with a new design of tool that make all previous ones obsolete.
> 
> I'll keep the cordless tolls that I have, but there's no way in Hell I'm going to buy a new one, only to find out that in a few years, the battery I need for it is now no longer available.
> 
> Either that, or I'm going to start buying the el cheapo versions @ Harbor Freight, get a year or two of service, then just toss um when the batteries start going bad.


Yup. That's pretty much the same conclusion I came to in deciding to keep the one I have, rather than buy one more expensive and "better."


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## Bedford T (Apr 18, 2017)

230 minutes runtime with this pair


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## Thefishguy77 (Apr 18, 2017)

As someone who uses battery powered tools for work I vote for dewalt or Milwaukee. Brushless is the only way to go. I have cooked batteries in the past by putting them on a charger and forgetting about them. Lesser brands don't have a shut off feature when they are fully charged. 

I tried Bosch and they make what I would call a really good homeowner grade but not contractor grade stuff. 

Brushless will net you the biggest improvement no matter the battery size. 

A small homeowner saw will also help cover what battery tools just aren't designed for. MS210 or 250 is super easy to manage. They sip fuel and also double and a great limb cleanup saw for down trees. 


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## TNTreeHugger (Apr 18, 2017)

Bedford T said:


> View attachment 573706
> View attachment 573707
> 230 minutes runtime with this pair


That don't look like a sawzall to me.


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## TNTreeHugger (Apr 18, 2017)

Thefishguy77 said:


> As someone who uses battery powered tools for work I vote for dewalt or Milwaukee. Brushless is the only way to go. I have cooked batteries in the past by putting them on a charger and forgetting about them. Lesser brands don't have a shut off feature when they are fully charged.
> 
> I tried Bosch and they make what I would call a really good homeowner grade but not contractor grade stuff.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the advice.
Already had the chain saw discussion though:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/advice-on-purchasing-a-new-chain-saw.297162/


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## 1Alpha1 (Apr 18, 2017)

I think I've seen battery powered "Sawzall" type saws @ Harbor Freight for about $35.00 or so.


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## 1Alpha1 (Apr 18, 2017)

TNTreeHugger said:


> That don't look like a sawzall to me.




Nope, and knowing Stihl like we all do, I'm sure it's  expensive.


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## Thefishguy77 (Apr 18, 2017)

I would check homedepot and lowes or other big box stores. Usually in spring they do a big buy in and put it on sale. I got my big dewalt chop saw for 399 vs 599 regularly priced. After depot stopped the sale lowes started it. My buddy bought his dewalt brushless stuff at the same time for a significant amount off. Also the best prices I found on Milwaukee stuff was at a small plumbing shop that just wanted to be a dealer for the plumbers tools. So they sold their stuff just above cost to maintain their dealership status. They don't advertise prices probably because they are way below MSRP. 

Amazon might also have the same deals. 


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## rayjay257 (May 28, 2017)

To the OP, I just bought a cordless Stihl MSA120C homeowner chainsaw. $299 is the price. I used it to clear out some saplings, vines and an 8" tree last week. The thing impresses the heck out of me. It probably only weighs a couple of more pounds than the sawzall but will do a LOT more. 3 year warranty. One thing, even though it's heavier it's far easier to use than a sawzall. It never fights you like a sawzall will so you end up getting more work done in the same amount of time.


As an aside, I also just bought a cordless sawzall  . I have a Black & Decker 18V blower and string trimmer and 3 fairly fresh batts. On CL, for $20, I scored a B&D sawzall that uses these batts. I bought a Bosch blade assortment for $10 that has a couple of suitable pruning type blades. In trying it out it did OK.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-msa120c-cordless.310022/#post-6259963


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## Franny K (Jun 1, 2017)

There are different sizes of those batteries and the kits most likely come with the relatively small ones. I would suspect that the cells inside the batteries are pretty much the same. I clicked on the link in post 1 and it says one standard size battery, they do not even give an amp hour on it. If you can get that circular saw to work on some of the stuff I bet you will get a lot farther per charge.


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## Ted Jenkins (Jun 1, 2017)

There are several threads on this topic here. Whenever there is any kind of battery sale I buy them up to put back in the old cases. This process can take some effort though. A few years ago there was a company that would send me after market Dewalt batteries, but can not find them any more. Then I ran into a company that refurbished batteries and guess what the are gone too. The new Ion batteries are pretty good though they can bring life back to your tools. BTW if you want your batteries to go south quick use the quick charge option. Slow charging will allow batteries to last a very long time. Thanks


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## Franny K (Jun 2, 2017)

Free Will said:


> Yes, that's one of the scams in the power tool industry that they don't like to talk about. Over-priced replacement batteries and the fact, that every few years, they come out with a new design of tool that make all previous ones obsolete.
> 
> I'll keep the cordless tools that I have, but there's no way in Hell I'm going to buy a new one, only to find out that in a few years, the battery I need for it is now no longer available.
> 
> Either that, or I'm going to start buying the el cheapo versions @ Harbor Freight, get a year or two of service, then just toss um when the batteries start going bad.


I can still get the 9.6 volt batteries for my Makita driver drill from about 25 years ago and it had been out for a while at the time I got it.

Just a reminder the batteries are not to be tossed they are to be recycled. Same for the tool if the battery is not separate.

From talking to folks in the trades over the last year or so it seems the fines for rule infractions associated with chords and electrical junction boxes that now have to be ground fault, and the negotiation process in getting those fines reduced make the battery tools the sensible choice as much as possible.


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## 1Alpha1 (Jun 2, 2017)

I don't toss batteries that have gone bad. I have a box for them. Some of them still look like new. They just won't hold a charge. I have quite a few in that box.

I'm not at the point yet where I feel comfortable "giving them away" so that they can be recycled. To me, they should be worth something, even if they are going to be recycled.

Hell, even old car batteries are worth a few bucks to the right people.


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