# Start-Up Tree Nursery



## FarmerKen (Feb 9, 2002)

Would anyone happen to know where I can get some good resources via the web or publication on how to start up a tree nursery? It's not for a business more of a hobby and a great way to give trees/shrubs away to friends and family. Any help would be appreaicated. I have a small nursery of about 100 small trees, in the ground but they are all in containers! Try to keep them from getting root bound but it's alot of work. I doubt this is the right way to do it. thanks.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 10, 2002)

Container grown trees develop "disorganized" root systems. 

From what I've heard/read it is best to plant liners bare root and ensure that all the first-order roots radiate out. Then make sure that the flair is above grade so that any encircling roots are not in the "zone of trunk expantion" (ZTE) which is the mature diamiter of the species. Many girdling roots are from poor nursery practices that were developed for productivity, not long term plant health.

A good tree for instalation should have few branches on it and no forking. There are some exceptions to this.

From an arboricultural point of veiw, many of the current practices in the nursery industry are not very good for the trees.

There's some good info in some of these hits
http://search.dogpile.com/texis/search?q=starting+tree+nursery&geo=no&fs=web

Arboriculture by Harris et al is very good too
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-6573992-1254531


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## rickbrower (Feb 16, 2002)

*resources*

I am starting up a small nursery myself this spring. I have found the following of immense value:

Manual of Woody Landscape Plants, Michael A. Dirr-- Stipes Publishing

Nursery Management, Davidson,Peterson and Mecklenburg-- Prentice Hall

Pirone's Tree Maintenance xford Press, NY

Dirr's Hardy Trees and Shrubs, An illustrated encyclopedia-- Timber Press

The information in these books can and will more than get you started, though they are not inexpensive. Best of luck. Rick


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 17, 2002)

Many6 of those books can be found in large library systems and at tech coleges with hort programs.

I agree they are good books.

Keep the root flair above grade.


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## TREETX (Oct 20, 2003)

Of all the things I can't find much info on, this tops the list.

Who else here grows trees?? I have the small back yard thing going on in random containers but would like to know the right way to do things. I'll be sure to check out the books above.

Any online resources?

I ask not because I want to correct the ills of my back yard containerized tree farm, but because I am looking at doing this on a larger scale with 5-10acres. Still trying to decide on the piece of land to use.

I am looking for things like spacing issues, maint issues. I am sure that addressed proactively, I can save a lot of headaches.

Nate


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## jimmyq (Oct 20, 2003)

I don't have any trees on the go at the moment but I have some experience in the field, so to speak. Spacing between trees is always an issue, normally between cost per square foot ( or revenue per square foot), the needs of the plant, irrigation (natural or assisted?), size you plan to start digging them, guess as to when they will be saleable and the market will be looking for them (sucks to have 3000 5" caliper trees that there is no market for). One of the things we did was to thin them as they sold (dig selectively during dormant to gain space and saleable trees for the season) take every second tree as possible. Make your roadways between trre blocks wide enough for your tractor (duh), make your blocks narrow enough that your sprinkler (normally a reel in type) will reach the center of the block from either side as it travels up or down the roadway. Group trees that do not share pests or diseases where possible. Group trees with similiar water and nutrient requirements. Plant the slower growers to the South side and the taller or faster growers to the North side of blocks (so the big ones don't shade the little ones unless so desired), and if all else fails, plant christmas trees because they are easy to burn- at least that is what one old timer told me with a smile on his face when I asked him what was the best thing to plant.


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## jimmyq (Oct 20, 2003)

IMHO, I would say the most important thing to consider for location is water. Does the field drain and is there a water source?


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## Ax-man (Oct 20, 2003)

*Start -up tree nursery*

The first good place to going on this is the American Nurserymen's Assoc. Horticultural Books, Videos and Software.

www.amerinursery.comm

Fax 312-427-7346

Order No. 800-621-5727 You might get more info from this number if they don't have exactly what your looking for.

JPS - I agree with that statement about nurseries not practicing good arboriculture practices when it comes to tree production.

In all honesty I doubt the two industries will ever align their thinking. Growing trees commercially for profit is a whole different culture so to speak than caring for trees and trying to fix the problems after the fact.

I've been on both sides of the fence on this one. My roots are more into the nursery side of the green industry, I just happened to stumble into arboriculture.


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## DadF (Oct 21, 2003)

I take care of about 900 trees at our Purdue nursery. I have the luxury of being able to plant the trees in rows 15' apart and spacing of 14' apart in the rows. But we assume when we plant that some of trees will be moved with our 80" spade so we plan for the worst case scenario. Put in a commercial Rainbird drip irrigation system several years ago and now don't have to worry about watering.
We have found that in most cases any B&B or containerized stock we get in have been planted anywhere from 4"-14" too deep in the root ball. It's just automatic anymore to remove the wire and basket before we even start to dig a planting hole because we would be digging more than we had to if we just measured from the top of the nursery rootball for plantinghole depth.
The other things that you have to worry about are 2 legged critters at night in the evergreen rows(at least here around campus  ) and four legged critters with horns during the rutting season. Then there are all the diseases, insects and mower cancer to worry about also.
Sooo to make a long msg short-figure what you want to do in the end and plan accordingly.


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## TREETX (Oct 21, 2003)

80" spade??? Wow!!!


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## Dan F (Oct 25, 2003)

Nathan-
I'm afraid that much of what Paul posted applies mainly to large scale production nurseries, much larger than what you are wanting to start.....

I think you can figure out what applies and what doesn't....

I too would like to start growing trees on my property, however, space is limited to around an acre to begin with. I do have an irrigation source, it will require only pulling some pipe into the ground for a main line, you see, I have a 3/4 acre pond that sits about 20 feet above where I want to line out the trees!

For smaller scales (and even bigger ones too, IMHO), drip irrigation is probably the way to go. You'll use less water, it requires a MUCH smaller well than a wind-up reel type, and the water is delivered EXACTLY where you want it. You really should only be watering trees the first year after planting. After that (unless it's a drought year), they should be left to their own devices to acclimate themselves to their locality.

Something else to consider might be root pruning a few months before digging to help reduce transplant shock....

The biggest problem is making sure you have enough room to get equipment in to dig with!

Oh, and don't use a cultivator for weeding purposes! I'm convinced that those things are to blame for at least 1/2 of the soil I find on top of the root flare on almost every tree I plant nowadays. The other 1/2 coming from being planted too deeply to begin with......

One more thing, make sure there aren't any gas mains under any trees you line out. Especially if you are using a Big John to dig them with. Right, Dad???


Dan


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## jimmyq (Oct 25, 2003)

I find the soil above root flare when trees are dug is mainly due to sh*tty digging practice. All to often I have seen digging crews, 2 guys on ground one in the bobcat behind a dutch master or optimal spade dig a tree with the spade, plop it into the burlap lined wire basket, throw a number of shovels of soil into the basket on top of the dug tree rootball, pull burlap tight, cinch basket down and secure basket with strapex or nylon twine. Now that I am doing a lot of install work I find the idiots seem to put at least 3 to 6 inches of soil above the natural flare when rootballed. I put in 8 caliper sized trees last week from 2 different nurseries and the worst of the bunch was an 8 inch Fagus with a 40" rootball, it had 7" !! of soil above the flare. just plain stupid, lazy and totally ignorant. I blame the nursery owner for indifference to the issue, I used to work for him and I am familiar with his "don't care, what do you know?" attitude.


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## Dan F (Oct 26, 2003)

I find it hard to believe that any of the nurseries around here would want to have guys tossing more soil on top of the rootball when dug. Would be a waste of time and money. 

I believe you though that it is done, I just don't think it is common practice here. I've never noticed a delineation in the soil layer when removing soil from the top of the rootball.

I think mostly the reason there is so much soil on top of the root ball is because the nurseries don't want to have to stake the trees when lined out, so they dig the hole deeper (probably with an auger, which leads to other problems) and plant the tree deeper to avoid staking. 

Oh, speaking of staking, has anyone else noticed that when removing soil from above the root flare, about 1/2 the time (or more) you find a broken off bamboo stake? I guess it's easier for the laborers to break it off at ground level than to pull it out....


Dan


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## Ax-man (Oct 26, 2003)

I glad to see this thread revived a little. It's refreshing to know their are a few at this site that have a background in the nursery trade, that also share the same line of thinking when it comes to tree production.

Just to back the thread up a little. I'd like to add this to the site considerations for a start - up nursery. In addition to the water and drainage issues I think an other consideration would be what the land itself will support and grow naturally. Trying to change a soil type that isn't suited for good tree production on a large scale just isn't good economics when it comes to growing trees and shrubs. Trying to grow trees on land that isn't suited for some species is just a waste of precious time and money. Getting trees started is one thing, growing them to a certain size for market where they hopefully bring top dollar is another, the land itself is a key factor in this.

I don't know if all areas of the country have this, our county has a soil survey book from the U.S.D.A. This book is very informative for different soil types in regards to their physical and chemical properties. In addition to this there are tables in the back regarding land use and a rating for a potential soil type for that use.

Dan F -- I agree with your statement 100% about the cultivator.

Even though trees are grown in rows, they are not suited for row crop weed control like other ag crops. In addition to the mounding problem cultivators also wound stems, break small limbs and skin tops, break leaders. I don't care to get into a discussion on weed control, but this definately is not the tool for the job.

jimmyq -- I have to agree with you to !00% 

Adding soil to root balls is not only a waste of time and money, your also giving away your most precious resource in the nursery. When this practice is allowed your giving away your most productive layer of soil which is the top few inches of top soil. In addition to that it adds unnecassary weight to the root ball that just doesn't need to be there.

Prior to digging we always taper the ball away from the field grade. People have a tendency to plant to deep to begin with, when they ask the question how deep to plant, I always tell then them to just cover the burlap or top of the ball. If it's done right it should come out to the same grade that the tree had in the field. Trees can live a little high, but they definately can't live low, especially in what I call builders loam in a new subdivision.


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## Ax-man (Oct 26, 2003)

Forgot to add this 

Since the subject of the truck mounted tree spade has been brought up. 

Any one out there have one? This has been on my list so to speak, but I would like to know the positives and negetives of having one before buying one.

Maybe we should start a new thread for this one.


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## Dan F (Oct 26, 2003)

Dad can give you more details about operating one... I think he's caving this weekend, so it may take him a day or two to reply.

Basically my thoughts on a truck mounted spade are these:

You need large trees to make it pratical. You need a market for those trees. You have upkeep, licensing, commercial inspections, all that fun stuff. 

If you don't already have a nursery full of large trees it may make more sense to find someone to spade in large trees for you as a sub. If you do have large trees, it may still make more sense to get someone with a large spade to move those trees on a contract basis....

I know of a company in Indianapolis that has (I think) around four large truck mounted spades, and that is all they do is move trees. I have been told they charge around $300/hour to move trees, plus the cost of the trees. But that's what I have been TOLD, and the information may or may not have been reliable. I think they try to run the trucks in pairs whenevery possible too. One digs the plug, the other drops the tree in the hole and off they go. 

You may also need more/better insurance too, since you are effectively digging a much deeper hole. That alone may make it financially unfeasable. Ask Dad about finding gas lines with the Big John.

And these thoughts are coming from someong outside looking in at companies who use this type of equipment. I have never used one, so take my thoughts however you like.

PM me and I can get you the names and possibly the numbers of at least two companies in or around Indianapolis that have large spades. I don't know how much info they would be willing to share, but I can at least get you in touch with them....


Dan


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## DadF (Oct 27, 2003)

Enough about gas lines!!  
I'm here and that 's all that counts because now I can get on MY soapbox and start yelling-GET YOUR UTILITY LOCATES!!!!
I'm in somewhat of a unique position here at Purdue because we have a truck mounted 80" Big John tree spade. But we we only move our own trees so we don't have to answer to the commercial aspect of how to make money with it. However we were told by the Big John people when we bought it 12 years ago that you had to be moving 5 trees /day in order to make any profit. IMO that really depends on what your charging and what the local economy will will withstand. 
But another advantage the bigger spade gives is that it allows us to salvage trees of ANY dia up to 8". I have even moved trees(only because they would get bulldozed the next week) in the middle of july. However you REALLY have to baby them. Have even stripped all the leaves off of one to force it into dormancy. It still lives and is doing well at it's new home. Just because a tree is only 2-3' dia doesn't mean that a larger spade can't be used if possible. Why not give the tree every chance by giving it more of it's root system?
But again that's why we plant our nursery trees on a much wider spacing so that we can use the bigger spade if neccessary, plus it also gives us a much nicer tree due to less competetion.
On another note-we have received shipments of tree that were basically grown in gravel. Can only assume that the topsoil was removed then trees were grown in what was left. If the nursery is irrigated and the trees are fertilized then they will grow. However we don't get trees there anymore because the root ball is so loose that it makes very difficult handle.


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## DadF (Oct 27, 2003)

*By the way*

ALSO where ever you plant your tree nursery make sure that it has no underground utilities !!! Especially gas lines that might feed an entire university and the city surrounding it   Yes it was a 12" high pressure line gas line and no I didn't cut it but only because I was real familiar with my equipment and knew that something wasn't right. But I did put some dimples in it and the repair costs won't be discussed!! Just suffice it to say that having the utilities would have been MUCH cheaper and a whole h!ll of a lot safer:angel:


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