# Big nasty leaner, no crane access, would like some opinions/ advice



## Kottonwood (Jul 5, 2011)

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So I was all excited about this tree because I thought I was finally gonna have a good reason to bring in a crane, but alas the crane can't make it up the twisty mountain dirt road, so I will have to do this old school.

The tree is a cottonwood that is approx 80 years old but is still alive. We are removing another one on the property that is roughly the same size. They are approx 50"dbh.

My major concern is whether or not the interior is rotted and if I am going to get any hinge on the holding wood or if it is just going to fall apart. I would like to try to drill though and see if I can tell how rotted it is. 

I am thinking of three different plans of attack to take this thing down.

Option 1: Climb up and limb it out so there is just a spar, then take the spar down in two cuts. I will make one cut about halfway up and yank it with a truck, then take the final cut on the ground, again pulling with a truck. There is a field on the other side of the tree that I can easily get a truck in and pull the tree.

Option 2: limb out the back side over the house and leave the stuff in the direction of pull. Then grab my balls, say a prayer and yank the whole thing over with a cut at the bottom. I am thinking I would leave 4-5 inches of holding wood and pull it hard. Also I could put another truck in the field and tie off the bottom of the tree just above my cut to help prevent it coming back or twisting.

Option 3: I have enough money on this job to rent a lift. So I could climb up and limb it out then use the lift to take out small pieces with my big saw and just work my way down.

Obviously option 3 is the safest way to go, but I would really rather not rent the lift. Anyone have any ideas/opinions on how you would take this nasty bastard down?


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 5, 2011)

top it out and slab it down that Wait i would do its takes some time but its safe


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## NCTREE (Jul 5, 2011)

Do you have a drill? You might be able to get a better idea on where the good wood is at.


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## mckeetree (Jul 5, 2011)

I encountered a big nasty leaner in a private club in Athens, TX just this past Spring. Luckily, I was able to get her off on my friend Tom and made my exit.


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## Kottonwood (Jul 5, 2011)

Thanks for the response

I have a half inch dewalt drill that I use for cabling. I don't have a drill bit long enough to get all the way through (or at least halfway) but I could get one. The drill plugs into the wall, it is not battery powered.

When I drill through though how am I really gonna know how bad it is? Also what type of bit do you recommend and do you think my half inch dewalt has the balls to go through it? If not any other drill recommendations?


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## VA-Sawyer (Jul 5, 2011)

It looks like you have maybe 2 ft between house and trunk, is that correct ?

If it is that close, there is no way that I would consider option 1 or 2 with 50" DBH Cottonwood. I think you're going to have to 'pizza box' that thing down.
Rick


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## Kottonwood (Jul 5, 2011)

mckeetree said:


> I encountered a big nasty leaner in a private club in Athens, TX just this past Spring. Luckily, I was able to get her off on my friend Tom and made my exit.



So did he end up using a lift on that one?


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## VA-Sawyer (Jul 5, 2011)

About the drill bit, make sure the extension section is smaller than the bit. 1/2" stub bit or spade bit on 1/4 or 5/16 extension. If you hit a hollow area or real soft wood, you will be able to tell by the change in feed rate. I would try to get at least a 24" bit. Hardware stores will sometimes carry them that long in stock.

I'm not sure how much drilling will help, even if you don't hit hollow/rot, it doesn't mean things are good a foot up the trunk. Of course if you find hollow/rot in the first hole, that does tell you something.
Rick


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## Kottonwood (Jul 5, 2011)

VA-Sawyer said:


> It looks like you have maybe 2 ft between house and trunk, is that correct ?
> 
> If it is that close, there is no way that I would consider option 1 or 2 with 50" DBH Cottonwood. I think you're going to have to 'pizza box' that thing down.
> Rick


 

Yeah if I remember correctly 2ft sounds about right. It has been a while since I looked at this tree because the guy was #####ing about the price. I gave him a bunch of numbers and told him to get as many estimates as possible..... he ended up saving up the money and calling me back.


I am leaning towards the pizza approach. I was hoping somebody on here would come back saying they have had success pulling trees like that.

I may try chunking down cookies without the lift. I have two days on site because of the other tree, which will only take a half day. I could get the top and limbs out on the first day then come in strong in the morning to chunk down the rest. 

If I am just slicing out cookies I am thinking I can just make my cuts all the way straight through with a couple of wedges and have the guys pull them over from the ground. Is this how you would make your cuts or would you use a notch or snap cut?


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## Kottonwood (Jul 5, 2011)

VA-Sawyer said:


> I'm not sure how much drilling will help, even if you don't hit hollow/rot, it doesn't mean things are good a foot up the trunk. Of course if you find hollow/rot in the first hole, that does tell you something.
> Rick


 
Yeah I take down a lot of cottonwoods and they are fairly unpredictable. I was thinking that I would drill through exactly where the apex of my notch would be, that way I get it pretty much right where I need the holding wood.


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## flushcut (Jul 5, 2011)

Did you consider just pulling her over if there is room? If it is not to rotten.


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## Kottonwood (Jul 5, 2011)

flushcut said:


> Did you consider just pulling her over if there is room? If it is not to rotten.


 
Yeah, that was my original idea. But I sort of backed out of it just because it seems a little risky. My only worry is the holding wood not holding because it is a cottonwood. I have never had good luck hinging cottonwoods especially big ones.


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## tree md (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm with Tom. Just drop it in pieces big enough to manage and push them in the clear. Safest way. You might could pull it over but hard to tell from pics. Piecing it out would be the safest way.


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## mckeetree (Jul 5, 2011)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> So did he end up using a lift on that one?


 
I'm not real sure just how that one did end up.


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## mckeetree (Jul 5, 2011)

flushcut said:


> Did you consider just pulling her over if there is room? If it is not to rotten.


 
Thought about it.


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## xdmp22 (Jul 5, 2011)

I agree with the pizza box idea, but I was succesful in tying a leaning rotted to a buddies van and tugging and cutting a largish notch in the direction I wanted it to fall. That said though, it was a really rotted elm and only 19" in diameter (my 20" bar barely stuck out the other side)

After we got tension on it, I cut the notch then he floored it and I ran like hell holding my balls.....worked but not sure the odds if we had more than one to do.




VA-Sawyer said:


> About the drill bit, make sure the extension section is smaller than the bit. 1/2" stub bit or spade bit on 1/4 or 5/16 extension. If you hit a hollow area or real soft wood, you will be able to tell by the change in feed rate. I would try to get at least a 24" bit. Hardware stores will sometimes carry them that long in stock.
> 
> I'm not sure how much drilling will help, even if you don't hit hollow/rot, it doesn't mean things are good a foot up the trunk. Of course if you find hollow/rot in the first hole, that does tell you something.
> Rick


 
Agreed, drill a few holes atleast halfway through. 

If you could get a wood cutting core drill, you could inspect the core, but that bit may be hard to find and pricy.........


Good luck


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## flushcut (Jul 5, 2011)

xdmp22 said:


> I cut the notch then he floored it


 
Yeah, that is exactly the wrong thing to do. Steady even pressure is the way to go. 
I was just throwing the idea out there. I would bore into the tree first before you be anything. If she is punky get a boom and bombs away.


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## the Aerialist (Jul 5, 2011)

*Vertical Plunge Cut ...*

Just stick your saw in it and watch the discharge, you can also feel it when it hits punky wood (_or no wood_). Works for me when I am in doubt about having a hinge that's solid.


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Jul 5, 2011)

*back lean*

Trunk solid enought to notch and pull-drop. Use two pull vehicles. One can stabalize. One to pull. Two 4x4 vehicles best. The more vehicle weight you have for pulling better. Hollow trunk for notch area. Stablelize hing area with chain or straps. Some people use this technique to reduce or kill any barber chair efect. If unsure just part it out. Best of luck..


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## tree md (Jul 5, 2011)

Me and another guy from this site pulled a 3' DBH Oak over with a bad back lean. We took some limbs off on the side over the house to reduce some weight from the back lean, anchored the tree with my 2 ton dump and pulled it over with his GRCS. It was hair raising to say the least but we made it work.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jul 5, 2011)

Brush her out, chunk her down, if she looks solid notch and drop the rest. Then go to lunch. Come back and clean up the mess. Salami cut the chunks starting high on the house side angled down towards the tension side of the trunk so they just slide off and ride down the trunk away from the house. Don't forget to put in your wedge before cutting the low side! No lifting pushing or straining in your climbers doing it that way. Just make sure you have a saw with a big enough bar for the task. See Fundamentals of Treework by Jerry (G.F.) Beranek for details and pics.

Welcome to the Commercial Section, is this your first post? :msp_biggrin:


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## BlackOakTreeServ (Jul 6, 2011)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> Yeah if I remember correctly 2ft sounds about right. It has been a while since I looked at this tree because the guy was #####ing about the price. I gave him a bunch of numbers and told him to get as many estimates as possible..... he ended up saving up the money and calling me back.
> 
> 
> I am leaning towards the pizza approach. I was hoping somebody on here would come back saying they have had success pulling trees like that.
> ...



Looks to risky to notch and drop, way to much lean toward house.

Climb it. limb it, rig it, and coin down trunk piece by piece to avoid damage to house.

You could fell the last 8 to 10 feet of trunk with a good notch, tow strap and 4x4 method
this would be the way i would go.....yea, takes longer, but safe..


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## Kottonwood (Jul 6, 2011)

Thanks for all the awesome responses.

I think I am leaning towards what the majority of you guys are saying and I am going to piece it out small. I will most likely try to pull the last 10 ft or so. I have two 4x4 diesels that will be in that field with plenty of pulling power. I will be on that jobsite Wednesday and Thursday of next week. I am taking the easier tree down on the first day and will drill the leaner and assess just to see how much I'll end up pulling over. I hopefully will have the limbs and top roped out on day 1 so I can come in strong in the AM to piece out the spar.

One idea I was thinking about trying is using the forks on my skid loader like wedges and lifting up on the back portion of the cut. Has anyone tried anything like that? I often use the loader like that when making big stump cuts, it makes it go nice and easy. Though, It may be a bad idea to put upward force on the hinge wood.

I am going to video everything and I'll let you guys know how it goes.


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## Kottonwood (Jul 6, 2011)

tree md said:


> Me and another guy from this site pulled a 3' DBH Oak over with a bad back lean. We took some limbs off on the side over the house to reduce some weight from the back lean, anchored the tree with my 2 ton dump and pulled it over with his GRCS. It was hair raising to say the least but we made it work.


 
Wow, a GRCS has that much pulling power? I gotta get me one of those. Either that or a big winch for the front of my truck.


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## thepheniox (Jul 6, 2011)

You can cut out a slot in the back of the tree and use a good bottle jack. Instead of trying to use the skid steer. Without being there and having a good look at everything I think I would put a rope in it use a very wide notch and pull it into the field. But that's was easy to type sitting here.


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## NCTREE (Jul 6, 2011)

The only problem with the jack is lifting it so much that the hinge breaks before the tree is over center. I would put a pull line in the top for sure to a come long keeping constant steady pull as the jack raises the tree. The pickup and jack together would be a bad combo. Its risky but its been done. I sure as hell wouldn't enjoy making pizza slices out of a 50" cottonwood.


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## flushcut (Jul 6, 2011)

Stinky cotton wood.


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## the Aerialist (Jul 6, 2011)

*Check out the last three minutes of this video ..*



NCTREE said:


> The only problem with the jack is lifting it so much that the hinge breaks before the tree is over center. I would put a pull line in the top for sure to a come long keeping constant steady pull as the jack raises the tree. The pickup and jack together would be a bad combo. Its risky but its been done. I sure as hell wouldn't enjoy making pizza slices out of a 50" cottonwood.



I've used bottle jacks on problem trees before, but I found that a low profile floor jack works better and you don't have to use a plate to keep it from sinking into the wood. I wouldn't do it without a pull line though. Here I used a 6000# rope wench with it:

[video=youtube;MmM98L_hQm0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmM98L_hQm0&feature=related[/video]


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## VA-Sawyer (Jul 6, 2011)

I get the impression that some of these guys haven't dealt with Cottonwood. Think soft maple that is at the half rotten stage. Hard enough to hold a nail, but will snap like glass when flexed too much.
You might make pulling it over work ok, but if it snaps early.....look out ! The big problem as I see it is the cost of damage if things go wrong.
And yes, I agree about pizza boxing it being a real PITA, but that is why you price it on the HIGH side.
Rick


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## flushcut (Jul 6, 2011)

You worked much in cotton wood AA? The wood sucks and will snap just by you looking at it and is very prone to rotting at its core. I don't think jacking it over is an option with that leaner. I would say if dude is going to tug her over a heavy truck with another truck as a backup, or some kind of holding line, is in order. As was said above. Chunking it down is probably the best option. It is not the quickest but a safe bet and the smelliest:hmm3grin2orange:. He will, I think, be able to pull large, maybe six foot, sections off at a time once it is wreck out and is clear of the house.


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## BC WetCoast (Jul 7, 2011)

Most of the heartwood in a cottonwood is too brittle to be an effective hinge, your hinge is really just the sapwood on the outside edge. As long as the shell (if the core is rotten) is 6" or more, you should be confident in the holding wood. That is how our cottonwoods react. 

Personally I would would lower it by piecing it down and then when you're confident to drop the log, put in a deep undercut (past the 1/2 way point) and pull it over. I wouldn't pull with the truck, I would use the truck as an anchor and put use a 5:1 rope pull or a tirfor. Much better control. By putting in a deep undercut, you are moving the centre of gravity back, making it easier to pull.


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## the Aerialist (Jul 7, 2011)

*Cottonwood is not indigenous to my area...*



flushcut said:


> You worked much in cotton wood AA? The wood sucks and will snap just by you looking at it and is very prone to rotting at its core. I don't think jacking it over is an option with that leaner. ...



Cottonwood is not a native tree here in Pennsylvania, although I do have one customer with a row of small ones, probably bought at a Nursery. They are not doing well, and I come back every year or so to take one out. They are of the Poplar family and we do have plenty of them here. Here's a video of me working one and a major limb snaps before I can put the saw to it for a back cut. That's about 3 minutes into the video.

[video=youtube;ei9kE95-chs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei9kE95-chs[/video]


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## flushcut (Jul 7, 2011)

That's what I am saying spooky and not very predictable.


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## imagineero (Jul 7, 2011)

how good is your insurance?

If you havent tested out making a claim and would like to, then taking a risk is a good way to go.

Otherwise, piece it out. I do trees like this pretty much every day, most of my work is in the city and most of it is on top of houses. Puling trees over is almost never an option fo me, because there's no vehicle access, and no yard to drop it in even if there was. This looks like a day job to me, for a climber and 2 or 3 groundies. It has been topped which is nice because you wont have to climb way out there on some awful skinny thing, but bad because you can expect the top to be rotten.

As suggested by another poster, angle your cuts so that the spar wants to slide down. You might be able to take bigger pieces than you think, without much need for rope, but start small and test it out. 

That stuff sure is heavy, so even a small piece will KO that house. At 50", cottonwood weighs 670lbs per foot. Less if rotten. Dont fail to take into consideratiion the incredible compression that will be on the low side, and the coresponding tension on the high. If you were going to consider felling a tree like this then the logging forum would be a good place to ask. Guys there take out the most complex trees every day, in their scores. I'm sure most of them would decline this one. Piecing it out is the way to go.

Shaun


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## ozzy42 (Jul 7, 2011)

I agree with the others on limbing it then cut cookies.Slow ,dirty ,nasty,pita ,etc.But when it's what you gotta do,it's what you goota do.

If You use the two trucks to pull some of the base over,you may want to pile some of the wood from the top in the beds for added traction.That's usually needed more than a bunch of power.


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## Kottonwood (Jul 7, 2011)

mmmm mmmm nothing like the stench of cottonwood chips in the face to get you going in the morning.

Removing cottonwoods is probably 40-50% of my business, I actually run a google adwords campaign just for that. For some reason people out here in CO still plant them..... I don't get it. I am trying to get people to plant some elms instead. They are definitely unpredictable to hinge, I never fell one without a rope even if it is an easy drop.

I am going to piece this thing down, I'll start small and see how it goes, maybe take a few four or six foot sections. I like the angle cut idea and that is how I am gonna go at it. I hate lifting wood when in my spikes. I am going to put my 36" bar on the 460 to slice out the cookies, then use the husky 3120 to drop the last bit. It is a little bigger of a bar than I normally like to run on the 460 but I am sure it has all the power needed and I don't want to carry the 660 around up there.

Knock on wood, I have never made an insurance claim and I have no desire to try it out. I bid the tree for a full day with two groundies and a skid loader with the slight possibility of renting a lift. we are leaving all the wood on site, just hauling it to his wood splitter. The guy is even letting us broadcast the chips instead of haul them. With all that I am definitely going to take my time on it, no need to push the limits. If we pull the final bit I am gonna throw some snow chains on the tires for some added traction, though I doubt we will need it with two 4x4's doing the pulling. 

My 5:1 system is only rated for 1000lbs (though I have pulled more with it) so I think I will stick with the trucks until I get a big ass military grade winch for the front of my truck, or a grcs, whichever happens first.

Thanks for all the input. I am looking forward to getting this one done, should be a fun couple of days.

-Keith


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## beastmaster (Jul 7, 2011)

I wouldn't even consider trying to pull that thing over.:msp_scared: Its iffy at best, and the risk factor is out of this world. If something went wrong it doesn't matter how much your getting paid. You can't take risks with other peoples property.
Chucking that thing down is maybe your only option if you can't use a crane or lift. I've done similar jobs like that a few times and a trick I have use is, after limbing it out, cut a big biscuit(slant downward on the cut)maybe 3ft. Secure a line on it, then have three stronggroundmen get a running pull and catapult that sucker away from the house. Beats cutting and throwing a hundred cookies. Iv'e done it using a truck and a pulley redirect also. Its important the ropes on good or the chunk can slip out.
You could maybe pull the last 10ft of the stick when you get that far.
It being a topped cottonwood there is a good possibility it could be rotten somewhere or be full of smelly water. I think I would check the roots and base of the tree real good also. Can't wait to see the video


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## Kottonwood (Jul 7, 2011)

beastmaster said:


> I've done similar jobs like that a few times and a trick I have use is, after limbing it out, cut a big biscuit(slant downward on the cut)maybe 3ft. Secure a line on it, then have three stronggroundmen get a running pull and catapult that sucker away from the house. Beats cutting and throwing a hundred cookies. Iv'e done it using a truck and a pulley redirect also. Its important the ropes on good or the chunk can slip out.



Yeah, that is exactly how I was thinking I'd do it, have the groundies pull the smaller ones and pull the big ones with the truck.


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## forestryworks (Jul 7, 2011)

thepheniox said:


> You can cut out a slot in the back of the tree and use a good bottle jack. Instead of trying to use the skid steer. Without being there and having a good look at everything I think I would put a rope in it use a very wide notch and pull it into the field. But that's was easy to type sitting here.


 
That tree would spit that bottle jack out like a potato out of a potato gun.


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## ozzy42 (Jul 11, 2011)

Aw right Patriot.
We did our part.Gave you the best advise money can't buy.I'ts been a week.:hmm3grin2orange:

WHERE DA PICS? opcorn:


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## Kottonwood (Jul 11, 2011)

Hey guys,
The trees are coming down wednesday and thursday of this week.

I have been swamped with storm work and my 3120 is in the shop getting a new clutch.

Hopefully I will have the video edited this weekend if all goes well. I'll post some pics when I have them.


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## treemandan (Jul 12, 2011)

mckeetree said:


> I encountered a big nasty leaner in a private club in Athens, TX just this past Spring. Luckily, I was able to get her off on my friend Tom and made my exit.


 
Jeez, remind me to never to business with you.:tongue2:


The tree looks like it can be climbed even with what might a big rot hole close to the trunk. When I first saw it I thought to pull it over. If you can set the right ropes, cut the right notch, have the right truck to pull it and the right driver it looks easy enough. Of course there is always that " balls in throat" with everything we do.I thought that is why we did it. Just do it right so's ya don't look stupit. What ever is done I know I would want to handle the trunk section with one cut at the bottom tied to a heavy 4x4. Maybe zip out the tops on a line.


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## treemandan (Jul 12, 2011)

Yeah that tree is a piece of dangerous crap. We don't have cottonwoods, a lot of poplar and basswood. Basswood is scary even when alive and healthy. I hope you got big numbers on that job and asked the client what they were thinking waiting so long. Really, I have got to know what's its like to live under a tree like that in this modern world.


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## Kottonwood (Jul 14, 2011)

*update on the job*

So far it's going OK. We got pushed out early yesterday because of wind so we called it quits around 3, today we were pushed out early by a lightning storm at 2..... damn mountain weather. Luckily I kept tomorrow fairly open so we will finish up then.

I way overestimated the size of the leaner..... it's only 47.5 inch dbh. Seriously though I overestimated the easiness of the first tree. I had completely forgotten about a small shed that is directly under it. So I had to rig everything out when I thought I was going to be able to crash it down. I ended up bringing in another climber to help out today because of the set back yesterday. 

right now we have the one tree down to a 15 foot stump and the one over the house is mostly limbed out. I drilled the tree today and was pretty surprised by how solid it seemed all the way through, these things are actually pretty healthy. I have been making big cuts and the holding wood has been holding. We were even lifting large pieces over the shed today and the wood held. I will most likely pull over the spar tomorrow with the two trucks in the field and a 5:1 pulling off the 15 foot stump of the other tree 90 degrees to the trucks. The lean of the tree is not directly back over the house so the 5:1 will hold it up against the lean as the trucks pull it out into the field. I will also put a third truck in the field to anchor the base of the tree, this is to prevent any splitting, twisting, or the tree setting back. I only actually have to move the tree against the lean 3-5ft to get it into a safe dz. Optimally I will be able to pull it back perpendicular to the house and against the lean.


I have got some good video and hopefully will have it edited over the weekend. Assuming I don't crash that spar into the house tomorrow, in which case I'll probably be to ashamed to show my face around here again.



Oh yeah.... I nicked my damn sling today when blocking some pieces down...... dammit


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## Kottonwood (Jul 15, 2011)

*Well, here it is*

Set her down today, drop went real nice.

These were actually really cool trees. The home owner's Grandmother planted them 80 years ago. They were also up at around 7000 ft. I don't normally see cottonwoods at that elevation. these trees were also both extremely healthy, not a piece of deadwood on them. There was no rot in the trunk at all, very surprising. It is a shame these trees had to come down..... but I am glad I am the guy that got to take them down. I envy you guys that get to take down big ones every day.

Here is the link to the video ‪big drop‬&rlm; - YouTube


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## NCTREE (Jul 15, 2011)

Good job! Glad she's down and all is well


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## treeman75 (Jul 15, 2011)

Good Job. High Five!


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## ozzy42 (Jul 15, 2011)

Good job .Thanks for the video.


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## flushcut (Jul 15, 2011)

The video was nice!


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## tree md (Jul 16, 2011)

Very nice! Man, that was a serious leaner. It's a great feeling to see one like that on the ground and no property damage...


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## treemandan (Jul 17, 2011)

See? I told ya. :msp_thumbup:


I know, you just needed a little confidence boost - a bunch of #######s like us telling you to make the money shot! Hell, I wouldn't have taken my own advice! Yer NUTS! Ha ha, just joking, nice drop.


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## Kottonwood (Jul 18, 2011)

Haha yeah Dan, it was basically your post that made me decide to drop it.

All joking aside though after looking at that tree a while dropping it was the safest way to go. There was no way to rig anything down because there wasn't enough room, and even a 2" cookie of that tree would weigh 50 pounds, my skinny ass can't chuck that four-five feet to clear the house when standing in spikes. I had redundant systems in place and took every possible precaution when dropping it. .....damn that was a fun day.

Thanks to everyone that put their two cents in.


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## treeman75 (Jul 18, 2011)

Its always a big relief and a rush when they are down! I have a vid of doing the same thing of a 120' cottonwood. I cant figure out how to upload it to my computer from my recorder. My brother will have to help me.


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## Mitchell (Jul 22, 2011)

*pulling trees*

Nice drop

A thought for anyone considering such a job in the future...

Residential guys don't work around skidders to much. If you can get one out for the "day" with a big fast hydraulic winch they can pull over trees so fast the branches will bend back. I had been in the habit of hooking the winch line choker at only reaching height [eight feetish] above the hinge on trees like 100' very heavy leaning alders[45 degree type stuff]. I would cut the trees with hefty holding wood still left [they would snap off otherwise] and the winch would pull them over so fast the trees would bend away from the pull like a strong wind was blowing. 

The odd tree does not make it but if you took the time to climb the choker higher no problem. Of course the higher you go the less speed you get on the pull. 

Something to keep in the back of your mind: Like a crane, the big hydraulic winch on a skidder, in a few minutes, can make a two day rigging job a half day clean up job.


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## Arborx (Jul 24, 2011)

This is the first thread I have read on Arborsite & I enjoyed the hell out of it. I am obviously new to the forum but a 15 year tree climbing vet. I understood every tactic thrown in the mix but you ended up doing exactly what I would have done. It's 12:30 on a Saturday night here in Jersey & I can't wait to get to work Monday morning fellas. Thanks for the video & good job!


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## Kottonwood (Aug 9, 2011)

for anyone following this thread I posted a video of the whole job in the video forum.

Here is the link http://www.arboristsite.com/tree-care-videos/178147.htm

and arborx welcome to arboristsite!


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## Kottonwood (Aug 9, 2011)

bomar said:


> hang a bull rope and have aerial arborist pull it straight back over with his stiener


 
Really?

Don't bring that garbage in this thread


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## bomar (Aug 10, 2011)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> Really?
> 
> Don't bring that garbage in this thread


 
lighten the #### up it was just a joke but i deleted it


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## ropensaddle (Aug 10, 2011)

Well have you thought of jump cutting 4 or five foot sections? Let me explain after limbing down to a spar tie 3/4 bull rope in middle of section to be jumped or just below middle as above will make it topple rather than jump. You will need long bull line so that the pulling rig ie truck can be so far back in the field the the rope is nearing horizontal angle. I do this quite often and it will work if done correctly. Any way make a cut no notch facing the way you want the section to go then make the mismatch cut leaving just enough holding wood to make it jump off when pulled hard with truck. I normally pre-tighten but i'm in a bucket but i can make a pretty large section jump ten foot safely! Cottonwood is rather scarce here so u may try it in the other tree on a block or two so you see how much holding wood to leave for the best jump. When done right the chunk will break free with enough force that it jumps straight out horizontally before gravity acts upon it. Note: if in trees like ash or known splitters extra precautions may become necessary to prevent spar from splitting and causing you harm. I would limit the size chunks to five feet or smaller but this method has been in my arsenal for years. It needs to be done right, there is a learning curve but it can magically make ease of a hard situation. Remember the block needs to break free after a significant pull to work proper. Or else cut where it breaks free rather easy and truck is gunned to jump the block I prefer making the thing jump after significant pull because it jumps further but again i'm usually in my bucket doing this. Many factors come into play for the methods safety in some trees like pine you will want it to break free rater quickly so the spar dont pound you. It needs some expertize but its likely how i would handle the big wood in your scenario after a practice on the tree not over house!

Note: this method has been used safely but can be dangerous so if you are not absolutely certain of what i'm describing please do not attempt it. I am merely explaining my experience and options of handling large wood and will not assume responsibility if you attempt this method and cause damage or get hurt.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 10, 2011)

Lol I see you fell it, good job; I may have done the same with my winch! I posted about jump cuts before I seen the vid anyway you might try a jump cut sometime too. I heard the relief scream lol i'm glad it went good for you


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## flushcut (Aug 10, 2011)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> for anyone following this thread I posted a video of the whole job in the video forum.
> 
> Here is the link http://www.arboristsite.com/tree-care-videos/178147.htm
> 
> and arborx welcome to arboristsite!


 
That is a pretty sweet video!


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## Arborx (Aug 10, 2011)

*Re:*



PatriotTreeCO said:


> for anyone following this thread I posted a video of the whole job in the video forum.
> 
> Here is the link http://www.arboristsite.com/tree-care-videos/178147.htm
> 
> and arborx welcome to arboristsite!


 
Good stuff man. How bout some Redwoods & Slayer next time...


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## Kottonwood (Aug 11, 2011)

Rope,
I like that jump cut. If you watch the full vid I inadvertently did that with one of the big tops over the shed. I had cut a small notch and pretightened the line with a truck. The bull line was tied about center on the piece and it jumped out quite a bit. That piece would have made it just fine if it had hinged over but I can see the value of jumping it when you need that extra couple of feet. 

When I am climbing and making dangerous cuts Like that I often like to make the cut, then come down to the ground and watch the piece fly. It takes more time and effort that way, but if you put the climb line on a pulley instead of a natural crotch then it is always easy to get back up with a good pull from a winch, truck, skid, or some strong groundies, or you can just tie yourself into the rigging line to get pulled up. I usually come down when I am making those lifting cuts as well, sometimes those bastards swing in the exact opposite direction you would think they'd go.

Now I would use my winch to pull that thing over too. The profits from that job bought me this new toy:






15000 lb ramsey winch. Conveniently named the patriot 15000. It also has a wireless remote so you can control it from the tree if you want... pretty sweet. I just used it last week to remove another very large cottonwood with spreading limbs over houses. Set my block in the top and lifted most sections out just as if I had a crane. For anyone that wants to try that technique I warn you to cut all the the small branches and stubs off before you start lifting big wood. They can swing quite a bit and if it hits a smaller branch it will snap it and send it off like a bullet. Also you should always come down before you do the lifting, it sucks to be climbing up and down all day, but it really sucks to have a 1000lb log land in your lap.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 11, 2011)

Nice so the winch can be operated from the tree? That could be sweet one thing about winches, if winch is strong enough a lower pull point creates faster action. If its set high you can't take slack up as fast! My bucket winch is never hardly set much higher that 25 feet even on learners but it is 40000 lb pto with 5/8 steel cable attached to a 24000 lb actual weight 33gvw truck. The winch will skid the truck across the ground with air brakes on! It will uproot trees 20" diameter if you want it to I set cable at 20 feet notch tree then pull til the top shakes and kill truck winch in gear, that is usually all that is needed but if its a leaner or nasty I cut till there is four to three inches of holding wood and kerf is starting to open in back cut then apply more pull!


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## Kottonwood (Aug 11, 2011)

Yeah the remote for the winch looks just like a control for auto locks on a car. It is small and fits on a key chain. It is great for lifting pieces out. I can set my own tension as I make my cut, that way I don't have to worry about the groundies taking it to far. It is a really cool system and you can actually get it for any winch that uses the standard winch control hookup. You wire it up in your truck and have a magnetic antenna you stick on the roof and then you just plug it into the winch control.

That sounds like an awesome set up you have with the pto driven winch. That is a hell of a lot of pull. I think right now the weak point in my system is how I have it mounted. It is just mounted on a front tow hitch with a mount I fabbed up myself. I don't think I would trust it to hold for much more than 7-10 thousand pounds of load. Soon I want to either build or buy a big bumper to mount it on, then I should be able to get the full 15000 out of it.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 11, 2011)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> Yeah the remote for the winch looks just like a control for auto locks on a car. It is small and fits on a key chain. It is great for lifting pieces out. I can set my own tension as I make my cut, that way I don't have to worry about the groundies taking it to far. It is a really cool system and you can actually get it for any winch that uses the standard winch control hookup. You wire it up in your truck and have a magnetic antenna you stick on the roof and then you just plug it into the winch control.
> 
> That sounds like an awesome set up you have with the pto driven winch. That is a hell of a lot of pull. I think right now the weak point in my system is how I have it mounted. It is just mounted on a front tow hitch with a mount I fabbed up myself. I don't think I would trust it to hold for much more than 7-10 thousand pounds of load. Soon I want to either build or buy a big bumper to mount it on, then I should be able to get the full 15000 out of it.


 
It really looks like its a sweet winch I may get me one someday with the remote. I can see the value in that but I'm a control freak lol


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