# STIHL MS460, MS461? I have the oportunity to buy both new! I need help deciding!



## chhonos (May 28, 2013)

Hey everyone, so I am new to this forum. I have checked out several threads on the subject of MS 461 vs the older MS460, but I am still undecided.
I previously owned an MS361, but found it lacked power for some bigger jobs. I called my local dealer here in Canada, and he had an MS460 priced at $950 plus tax, an MS461 priced the same ($950). 
So far, I have ruled out the MS441 as it is only slightly cheaper and has less power at the same weight etc....
My biggest issue is deciding between the older MS460 and the newer MS461. From what I have read, there are minor improvements on the newer MS461, although I have also heard that people will pay an arm and a leg to get their hands on an older 460. 
Basically what I want to know is which of the two is more reliable? What would be the pros and cons of each saw?
Thanks guys, and I hope you can help. 
I could also get a MS660, but they are a bit more...($1150) here.


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## mdavlee (May 28, 2013)

461opcorn:


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## broman78 (May 28, 2013)

A 660 is quite a bit heavier than the 460. At the end of the day it will wear you out. I would probably go with the new 461 sips less fuel.


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## young (May 28, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> 461opcorn:



x2


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## chhonos (May 28, 2013)

Yeah, thats what I heard...that the 660 is quite heavy. Although I haven't actually held one yet so I can't rule it out just yet 
Just thought of something else! Why is it now just the MS461, and not the MS461 Magnum???
When you look at the website, it used to say MS441 Magnum, MS460 Magnum, MS660 Magnum etc...
They seem to have dropped the "Magnum" status on the MS461....
Thoughts?


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## young (May 28, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Yeah, thats what I heard...that the 660 is quite heavy. Although I haven't actually held one yet so I can't rule it out just yet
> Just thought of something else! Why is it now just the MS461, and not the MS461 Magnum???
> When you look at the website, it used to say MS441 Magnum, MS460 Magnum, MS660 Magnum etc...
> They seem to have dropped the "Magnum" status on the MS461....
> Thoughts?



just a sticker


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## chhonos (May 28, 2013)

Also, why are some people set on getting a 460 if they can get their hands on one?....if they can just get a 461? Are there any pros to getting the 460 over the 461? Like I said, most people are going with the 461, but some seem to be wanting the 460!


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## lly_duramax (May 28, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Also, why are some people set on getting a 460 if they can get their hands on one?....if they can just get a 461? Are there any pros to getting the 460 over the 461? Like I said, most people are going with the 461, but some seem to be wanting the 460!



I guess from a logger's prospective if he has a 1/2 dozen or so 460s laying around for parts I could see why he would choose one over a 461. I can't comment much on a stock 461, I only ran 1 tank through mine before sending it to be ported. On the first tank my dad's good running stock 046 would have beat it by a small margin I think.


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## chhonos (May 28, 2013)

Yeah, just a sticker...but it was a marketing strategy. They had everything above the 441 as a "Magnum" saw. Now they remove the "Magnum" status from the MS461? It seems that maybe they are going to remove it from the 441 as well, and just have the 660 or 661 if it ever comes lol, as magnum saws along with the 880? Think about it from a marketing standpoint...look at their website, the 461 is a saw that now lies between two magnums. Its not like it costs STIHL anything for the stickers... They must be removing the "magnum" status from their 400 line saws, (441 as well). Why else wouldn't they label the 461 as a magnum saw!


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## young (May 28, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Also, why are some people set on getting a 460 if they can get their hands on one?....if they can just get a 461? Are there any pros to getting the 460 over the 461? Like I said, most people are going with the 461, but some seem to be wanting the 460!



who are these people you speak of?

no reason to get the 460 over the 461 unless its heavily discounted.

also over 75% of the parts interchange between the 2 saws.


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## young (May 28, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Yeah, just a sticker...but it was a marketing strategy. They had everything above the 441 as a "Magnum" saw. Now they remove the "Magnum" status from the MS461? It seems that maybe they are going to remove it from the 441 as well, and just have the 660 or 661 if it ever comes lol, as magnum saws along with the 880? Think about it from a marketing standpoint...look at their website, the 461 is a saw that now lies between two magnums. Its not like it costs STIHL anything for the stickers... They must be removing the "magnum" status from their 400 line saws, (441 as well). Why else wouldn't they label the 461 as a magnum saw!



dude its just a sticker. they just didnt feel like slapping it on the north american sold saws. the same saw sold in aus has the sticker. if your that hard up on the badging just buy it and put it on your self.


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## josh1981 (May 28, 2013)

461.


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## blsnelling (May 28, 2013)

What do you want in a saw? Max torque or max speed?


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## Trx250r180 (May 28, 2013)

young said:


> dude its just a sticker. they just didnt feel like slapping it on the north american sold saws. the same saw sold in aus has the sticker. if your that hard up on the badging just buy it and put it on your self.



mine has a sticker View attachment 297598


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## chhonos (May 28, 2013)

Haha dude, the sticker has Nothing to do with it....that comes off often anyways....
I was merely curious as to their marketing strategy that they had going with their "magnums" and I noticed on the website that they didn't list it as a "magnum" saw. This lead me to believe that they are starting to discontinue their whole magnum ordeal. Although if you mention....they listed it as a magnum saw in other countries....curious.


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## chhonos (May 28, 2013)

Well I guess I would have to say max torque. Speed....well nice, but I would think torque is more important on a jobsite, to me anyways...


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## blsnelling (May 28, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Well I guess I would have to say max torque. Speed....well nice, but I would think torque is more important on a jobsite, to me anyways...



Then you definitely want the 461. Where the 460 has great torque, the 461 has phenomenal torque. It also has a super broad, user friendly torque curve. Its not slow my any means either, although the 460 would have an edge in that regards.


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## Philbert (May 28, 2013)

OK - just for curiosity. Aside from price, is there any reason to choose a 441 over a 461?
Does the M-Tronic offer advantages over displacement?

Thanks.

Philbert


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## blsnelling (May 28, 2013)

The 441C is a fantastic saw, but doesn't have near the torque. It's plenty fast enough, but you can't lean on it near as hard. The 460 & 461 just bump the torque up another level from the 440 & 441.


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## Andyshine77 (May 28, 2013)

If you know how to run a 441 it'll cut close to a 460 in 24" wood, but if you lean on the 441 a little too hard, or cut anything much over 24" the 460 will handle things much better. I won't forget to mention the 441 is "A LOT" smoother, which is becoming a must for myself, and I'm sure many others.


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## Officer's Match (May 28, 2013)

I can tell you for sure a ported 441 M-Tronic is as perfect a 70cc work saw as I can imagine.


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## chhonos (May 28, 2013)

So pretty much, Everyone seems to think that a 461 is superior to the 460. From what I gather, for my needs, both will perform similarly in terms of torque and speed, with minor minor differences. The 461 will be better on fuel economy...
Now what about comfort? Is the 461 noticeably different from the 460 in terms of vibration? Does one run smoother than the other? What about the sound of the saw...are there differences there? Pull start should be the same I presume? 

I am guessing that most of this stuff is similar on both models. In theory, I suppose I was originally leaning towards the 460 because it had been around for a while, and I was worried that the 461 was possibly a saw that might pose more problems later down the road....


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## Officer's Match (May 28, 2013)

And by that I mean factoring in Anti-Vibration, Air Filtration, Fuel Efficiency, automatic climate/altitude/fuel/etc tune optimization. I used to have a stock 460 Magnum that I ran side by side with the M-Tronic many times, and had friends of mine run both as well. My ported 441C easily spanked my stock 460, yet maintained all it's "modern" advantages.


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## Abflyboy (May 28, 2013)

Get a MS660. There are a lot of opinions here but when it comes to felling and bucking, I would and have on many occasions run a MS660 all day before I pick up any 70cc saw. 

Now having said that, I recently picked up a MS440 just so I would have a saw that was TRULY lighter than my MS660 and still had plenty of balls to get the job done on smaller stuff. We'll see how this is going to work out. 

As far as weight, I don't believe that a MS460 is any lighter than a MS660 with b&c, oil, mix, 3/4 wrap, HO oiler, etc. They feel the same and the MS660 balances better. There is no shortage of torque and when you get that opportunity to fell one that is bigger around than a 36" bar will cut through, that torque is damn nice to have on hand.

If you don't like my choice, get all three!


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## Trx250r180 (May 28, 2013)

if you do get a 461 get a couple filter covers ,otherwise the filter plugs pretty fast View attachment 297624


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## lly_duramax (May 29, 2013)

There is no noticeable difference between the 460 and 461 in the vibe department. I am pretty sure they use the same rubbers. I know that the last sentence didn't sound right but you get my point. :msp_biggrin:


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## RiverRocket (May 29, 2013)

I can't say anything about the 461, I never ran one ,but I have a 460 and it's an awesome saw..
I don't think you could go wrong with either saw.
I could have cried when Stihl stopped making the 440 ,but what i'm hearing...the 441 is a nice saw. so if i where you I wouldn't rule out the 441
Get the Dealer to put the size bar your going to be running on the 441, 460 and 461 and see witch one feels better
I know that Stihl list the 460,440,441 weighing the same, but they don't...When it comes to weight I would much rather run my 440 all day than my 460


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## chadihman (May 29, 2013)

The 460 was my favorite untill I bought my 461R. A 461 puts on a great show right out of the box. I hardly ever use my 660 but I was reminded last weekend why I have it. The 660 allways puts a smile on my face when the 36" bar is buried. The 660 has torque that really shows when the big bar is on and your pullin the handle it to make it work. I like a 20" on my 361 a 25" on my 460 and 461 and the 660 gets a 36" bar. Figure out what size wood your going to cut most of and buy a saw to fit that need.


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## Stihlman441 (May 29, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> if you do get a 461 get a couple filter covers ,otherwise the filter plugs pretty fast View attachment 297624



Sorry i must disagree about the use of pre filters,all they do is trap fine dust to the filter as seen here,this is a 461 after 4 tanks of fuel in dry Yellowbox.
Will out the pre filter when the saw stops (sucking air) most of the crap will fall off.












This is a 441C filter after about 12 tanks of fuel same wood.


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## Stihlman441 (May 29, 2013)

This is the sort of dust im talking about.
461 ported,25'' bar semi chisel chain 8 pin sprocket in very very hard dry Yellowbox,this is were the 461s with there torque win hands down from anything else i have even run in this stuff.

[video=youtube;--09HcxhqR8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--09HcxhqR8[/video]


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## Chris J. (May 29, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Yeah, thats what I heard...that the 660 is quite heavy. Although I haven't actually held one yet so I can't rule it out just yet
> Just thought of something else! Why is it now just the MS461, and not the MS461 Magnum???
> When you look at the website, it used to say MS441 Magnum, MS460 Magnum, MS660 Magnum etc...
> They seem to have dropped the "Magnum" status on the MS461....
> Thoughts?



With the purchase of a Magnum saw you received a free 40oz bottle of fortified (high alcohol content) beer . 

Note--This joke might not be applicable in Canada.


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## stihlavarna (May 29, 2013)

Chris J. said:


> With the purchase of a Magnum saw you received a free 40oz bottle of fortified (high alcohol content) beer .
> 
> Note--This joke might not be applicable in Canada.



nope, what the heck is "light beer"


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## nmurph (May 29, 2013)

I thought the 461 had spring AV? I know an 046 will rattle your hands after running it all day.


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## Officer's Match (May 29, 2013)

nmurph said:


> I thought the 461 had spring AV? I know an 046 will rattle your hands after running it all day.



Nope, same setup. Doncha' know,_ real _saw guys like vibration. :msp_rolleyes:


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## stihl for life (May 29, 2013)

i personally love my 460 . my 461 feels odd to me just longer base . i would go for a 460 and put a big bore and woods port it . you wont be disappointed. although you cant go wrong with the ms 461 cuts and preforms like it should sucks less gas and stuff. i personally would buy a used 460 off the internet and put a big bore and do some port work . it will come out to be the same cost as a new one but u have way more power . but its up to you thanks


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## nmurph (May 29, 2013)

stihl for life said:


> ...i would go for a 460 and put a big bore and woods port it . you wont be disappointed...i personally would buy a used 460 off the internet and put a big bore and do some port work . it will come out to be the same cost as a new one but u have way more power . but its up to you thanks



You are a noob and can be excused for this post.


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## Trx250r180 (May 29, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> This is the sort of dust im talking about.
> 461 ported,25'' bar semi chisel chain 8 pin sprocket in very very hard dry Yellowbox,this is were the 461s with there torque win hands down from anything else i have even run in this stuff.
> 
> [video=youtube;--09HcxhqR8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--09HcxhqR8[/video]



that wood is very dry and dusty ,stuff around here is usually wetter ,i can usually pop the filter cover off and tap or blow with my mouth and the prefilters clean ,hows your nose after cutting that stuff ? must make some good chunkies in there


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## Philbert (May 29, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> This is the sort of dust im talking about.



!!! You guys live in a 'special' place down there . . . 

Philbert


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## bucknfeller (May 29, 2013)

If I was really that worried about anti-vibe, air filtration, and smoothness, I'd go to the Husky shop :msp_biggrin:


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## thomas1 (May 29, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> If I was really that worried about anti-vibe, air filtration, and smoothness, I'd go to the Husky shop :msp_biggrin:



Why, do they sell Dolmars?


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## Philip Wheelock (May 29, 2013)

I like the improved clutch-side cylinder shroud attachment on the 461. Addresses occasional stripped thread issue on 440's and 460's.


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## chadihman (May 29, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> If I was really that worried about anti-vibe, air filtration, and smoothness, I'd go to the Husky shop :msp_biggrin:



I can deal with a little vibration and cleaning the filter daily but wouldn't stand for bolts falling out and damaged threads. I've owned a few 372's and everyone had missing top shroud bolts and muffler bolts. What'd be so freakin hard about making a bolt like stihls.


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## kwhite1271 (May 29, 2013)

Buy the ms461, put a 28"ES Light bar on, buy a couple loops of RS and RSF and go to work. You will never look back!


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## chhonos (May 30, 2013)

Alright everyone, so I am off to the shop tomorrow to take a look at the saws and hopefully bring one home! I guess it will come down to what feels right! Although, at the moment its looking like I am leaning towards the MS461. Will let you guys know tomorrow! BTW, what size bar should I get with a 461 to have it fairly balanced?


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## chadihman (May 30, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Alright everyone, so I am off to the shop tomorrow to take a look at the saws and hopefully bring one home! I guess it will come down to what feels right! Although, at the moment its looking like I am leaning towards the MS461. Will let you guys know tomorrow! BTW, what size bar should I get with a 461 to have it fairly balanced?



25 or 28 would work well


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## Officer's Match (May 30, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Alright everyone, so I am off to the shop tomorrow to take a look at the saws and hopefully bring one home! I guess it will come down to what feels right! Although, at the moment its looking like I am leaning towards the MS461. Will let you guys know tomorrow! BTW, what size bar should I get with a 461 to have it fairly balanced?



25" ES, or ($-ouch) a 28" ES Light.


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## Trx250r180 (May 30, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Alright everyone, so I am off to the shop tomorrow to take a look at the saws and hopefully bring one home! I guess it will come down to what feels right! Although, at the moment its looking like I am leaning towards the MS461. Will let you guys know tomorrow! BTW, what size bar should I get with a 461 to have it fairly balanced?



i like the 32 stihl light ,when cutting standing up ,don't have to arch the back over ,once you get used to it ,the reach is nice limbing too


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## chhonos (May 31, 2013)

Hey guys, so I went to the store yesterday and picked up a brand new ms 461, $950 plus tax with a 20"Es bar. I will probably be getting a 28" bar as well. Finally, the 461 just felt a little nicer than the 460. I ended up liking the new design a Lot better in person than in the pictures! Took a look at the 660, but it really seemed quite a bit heavier/bigger (even though its only 2 pounds more or so). The only thing that I was debating in my decision was whether I should have waited and ordered a wrap handle! I decided against it, thinking that with the wrap it wouldn't fit in my stihl carrying box AND that it would add an extra 0.6 pounds to the saw. I thought...the extra weight isn't really worth it for the number if times I would use the wrap...
Hope that was a good decision? Also it was 75 bucks more to order the wrap. Ohh and random, but the 461 does still have the magnum sticker on it (at least the one I bought does)...wonder why they dropped the magnum part of the name on their website???
As for the wrap handle, I believe I can still order a 460 wrap handle and it should fit on the 461? I am going to order the larger dogs for it anyway. Aside from that, are there any major differences between the regular model and the R version?
Ohh and FYI, the dealer said that from guys who came in the store, most people thought the 460 was more zippy than the 461 in terms of cutting wood faster. I think he meant on wood smaller than 20 inches wide...


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## Stihlman441 (May 31, 2013)

Congrats,great saw.
The R (wrap model) has dual bumper spikes,roller chain catcher,high out put bar oiler.
I just change the wrap handle to a half wrap.:msp_biggrin:

Go the 28'' ES Light bar same weigh as the 20'' ES.


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## chhonos (May 31, 2013)

Really? I knew that the R version has a Full wrap handle. I didn't realize there was a half wrap??? Never even seen that. Where can I get one and what's the difference from the full wrap?
I also knew the R model had bigger dogs and a larger chip deflector or side panel...
What's a roller chain catcher? Also found nothing online that says it has a high output bar oiler? You sure a out that?
As for the bar...
I know they have an Es line which is the light line. I got the 20"Es bar. How does it make sense that the 28"Es bar weighs the same? Unless there are 2 Es lines? Am I missing something....


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## MCW (May 31, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> hows your nose after cutting that stuff ? must make some good chunkies in there



It's like laying a couple of turds out your nostrils at the end of the day 



Philbert said:


> !!! You guys live in a 'special' place down there . . .
> 
> Philbert



We love our wood. Chains don't though. You'd be surprised how many full time firewood cutters here run carbide. Im selling more and more of it as even semi chisel just isn't holding up in some of this stuff.
Had a full time firewood guy the other day buy 2 x 84DL Stihl 36RD carbide chains and a diamond wheel to suit - $705. That would buy a lot of normal chain but he just can't get normal chain to last. The wood he is cutting is that bad that he'd go broke running normal chain sadly.
On another note this guy has both an MS461 and an MS660. He is favouring the 660 because in his words it just does everything "easily" compared to the 461.


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## blsnelling (May 31, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Congrats,great saw.
> The R (wrap model) has dual bumper spikes,roller chain catcher,high out put bar oiler.
> I just change the wrap handle to a half wrap.:msp_biggrin:
> 
> Go the 28'' ES Light bar same weigh as the 20'' ES.



Correct on all counts. It's the only way to go.


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## Stihlman441 (May 31, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Really? I knew that the R version has a Full wrap handle. I didn't realize there was a half wrap??? Never even seen that. Where can I get one and what's the difference from the full wrap?
> I also knew the R model had bigger dogs and a larger chip deflector or side panel...
> What's a roller chain catcher? Also found nothing online that says it has a high output bar oiler? You sure a out that?
> As for the bar...
> I know they have an Es line which is the light line. I got the 20"Es bar. How does it make sense that the 28"Es bar weighs the same? Unless there are 2 Es lines? Am I missing something....



Some people call it a half wrap handle or standard handle same thing.

A roller chain catcher is a shaft and a plastic roller that is just behind the bottom of the dogs (twin bumper spikes) its a safety idear if the chain comes off doent chuw up your self or the saw.

High out put oiler,have a look at my sig how many R wrap models do you see.

ES bar is a solid bar
ES Light is a light model
I have weighed them a 20'' ES is the same weight as a 28''ES Light.

Cheers


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## Raganr (May 31, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Hey guys, so I went to the store yesterday and picked up a brand new ms 461, $950 plus tax with a 20"Es bar. I will probably be getting a 28" bar as well. Finally, the 461 just felt a little nicer than the 460. I ended up liking the new design a Lot better in person than in the pictures! Took a look at the 660, but it really seemed quite a bit heavier/bigger (even though its only 2 pounds more or so). The only thing that I was debating in my decision was whether I should have waited and ordered a wrap handle! I decided against it, thinking that with the wrap it wouldn't fit in my stihl carrying box AND that it would add an extra 0.6 pounds to the saw. I thought...the extra weight isn't really worth it for the number if times I would use the wrap...
> Hope that was a good decision? Also it was 75 bucks more to order the wrap. Ohh and random, but the 461 does still have the magnum sticker on it (at least the one I bought does)...wonder why they dropped the magnum part of the name on their website???
> As for the wrap handle, I believe I can still order a 460 wrap handle and it should fit on the 461? I am going to order the larger dogs for it anyway. Aside from that, are there any major differences between the regular model and the R version?
> Ohh and FYI, the dealer said that from guys who came in the store, most people thought the 460 was more zippy than the 461 in terms of cutting wood faster. I think he meant on wood smaller than 20 inches wide...



Nice purchase! I bought a regular 460 (461 just existed on the forum) and have spent way more than $75 to get it closer to the "R". When given a choice, I will only buy an "R" model Stihl again.

Here is mine. Ported by Brad.

















[video=youtube;ZCpwMlRbLtY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCpwMlRbLtY[/video]


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## chhonos (May 31, 2013)

Raganr said:


> Nice purchase! I bought a regular 460 (461 just existed on the forum) and have spent way more than $75 to get it closer to the "R". When given a choice, I will only buy an "R" model Stihl again.
> 
> Here is mine. Ported by Brad.
> 
> ...




Really? What did you do to your saw? I was thinking of ordering the extra side cover with the larger dogs. I was also possibly thinking of ordering the wrap handle separately. What else can I order to mAtch the "r" version? I can't find any reference to the high output oiler that was mentioned...


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## chhonos (May 31, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Some people call it a half wrap handle or standard handle same thing.
> 
> A roller chain catcher is a shaft and a plastic roller that is just behind the bottom of the dogs (twin bumper spikes) its a safety idear if the chain comes off doent chuw up your self or the saw.
> 
> ...



Ahh I found it. The Es super and Es light bars. No idea which one I have... All it says is Rollomatic Es on the bar. Can't find anything on the high output oiler. Is it something that is worth changing?? What do u mean by sig?


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## Raganr (May 31, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Really? What did you do to your saw? I was thinking of ordering the extra side cover with the larger dogs. I was also possibly thinking of ordering the wrap handle separately. What else can I order to mAtch the "r" version? I can't find any reference to the high output oiler that was mentioned...



You pretty much have the list of parts but they will set you back close to $300. If you do a search here or on google for high output oiler ms460 you will find the part numbers.

Even if you didn't want those parts you could buy the wrap model then sell or trade them for standard parts to offset the cost of the saw.


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## chhonos (May 31, 2013)

Raganr said:


> You pretty much have the list of parts but they will set you back close to $300. If you do a search here or on google for high output oiler ms460 you will find the part numbers.
> 
> Even if you didn't want those parts you could buy the wrap model then sell or trade them for standard parts to offset the cost of the saw.



Is the high output oiler worth having? What's the difference!


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## Raganr (May 31, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Is the high output oiler worth having? What's the difference!



I doubt it is needed for most but that is the least expensive thing to upgrade.


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## Stihlman441 (May 31, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Ahh I found it. The Es super and Es light bars. No idea which one I have... All it says is Rollomatic Es on the bar. Can't find anything on the high output oiler. Is it something that is worth changing?? What do u mean by sig?



The ES Light bars only come in 28' and 36''.

The high out put oiler is good with 28'' bars +

Sig is short for signature,down the bottom listing saws and stuff.

Other things worth having.
Use a 8 pin sprocket withe the 20'' and a 7 pin with a 28'' bar.
Dual port front muffler cover and open up original outlet.


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## mdavlee (May 31, 2013)

The Ho oiler is nice for running 28" and up in real hard dry woods. The clutch cover and spikes from stihl will probably cost you more than the R upgrade would have and that's not counting the oiler, roller chain catcher, and the wrap handle. 

The ES light bars come in 28", 32", and 36" in both .050" and .063".


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## Trx250r180 (May 31, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> The ES Light bars only come in 28' and 36''.
> 
> The high out put oiler is good with 28'' bars +
> 
> ...



i have a 32 inch .063 es light on my 461 so they make that size also


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## chainsawdad (May 31, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Hey everyone, so I am new to this forum. I have checked out several threads on the subject of MS 461 vs the older MS460, but I am still undecided.
> I previously owned an MS361, but found it lacked power for some bigger jobs. I called my local dealer here in Canada, and he had an MS460 priced at $950 plus tax, an MS461 priced the same ($950).
> So far, I have ruled out the MS441 as it is only slightly cheaper and has less power at the same weight etc....
> My biggest issue is deciding between the older MS460 and the newer MS461. From what I have read, there are minor improvements on the newer MS461, although I have also heard that people will pay an arm and a leg to get their hands on an older 460.
> ...



I have a 460 excellent saw i also have a 261 and 361 love them as I'm sure i would love a 461 which is the one i would go for if i had the choice regards alan.


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## chhonos (Jun 2, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> i have a 32 inch .063 es light on my 461 so they make that size also



Hey. So I finally decided to get the R version. I brought the saw back and placed the order yesterday. 
Now about the sprocket. Which size does the saw come with? 7 or 8?
As for the muffler, I take it that is something I can just buy somewhere? But they have different types...


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 2, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Hey. So I finally decided to get the R version. I brought the saw back and placed the order yesterday.
> Now about the sprocket. Which size does the saw come with? 7 or 8?
> As for the muffler, I take it that is something I can just buy somewhere? But they have different types...



mine came with the 7 28 b&c. it is surprisingly strong in our hard oak. it has a louder exhust than any of my 460s so i'm thinkin they inproved the muffler somewhat. lemme know what ya think of the oiler.


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## Raganr (Jun 2, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Hey. So I finally decided to get the R version. I brought the saw back and placed the order yesterday.
> Now about the sprocket. Which size does the saw come with? 7 or 8?
> As for the muffler, I take it that is something I can just buy somewhere? But they have different types...



Good call and nice dealer to take the saw back. You will be happy. Saw will come probably come with a 7 pin. You dealer should have an 8 pin on the shelf for ~$10. Buy the 8 then save it for shorter bars or once you get your saw ported 

Just order the dual port cover. While you have the original cover off, pull the muffler and open up the existing side hole. There are tons of MS460 muffler mod threads here and google should bring them up.


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## Trx250r180 (Jun 3, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Hey. So I finally decided to get the R version. I brought the saw back and placed the order yesterday.
> Now about the sprocket. Which size does the saw come with? 7 or 8?
> As for the muffler, I take it that is something I can just buy somewhere? But they have different types...



They come with a 7 pin ,your dealer should have the dual port cover in stock ,may have to tell then a 460 cover will fit if the 461 part # is not in the system yet ,i think watsonr on this site has the dual port covers also for a good price


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## chhonos (Jun 4, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> The ES Light bars only come in 28' and 36''.
> 
> The high out put oiler is good with 28'' bars +
> 
> ...



Hey, so ms461R on hand. So out of curiosity, what is the difference between the 7 and 8 pin sprockets. By purchasing an 8 tooth sprocket for my 20" bar it will make the rpm go up??
Also, what is the difference between a 0.5" bar and a 0.63"??


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## Stihlman441 (Jun 5, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Hey, so ms461R on hand. So out of curiosity, what is the difference between the 7 and 8 pin sprockets. By purchasing an 8 tooth sprocket for my 20" bar it will make the rpm go up??
> Also, what is the difference between a 0.5" bar and a 0.63"??



A 8 pin sprocket will give you more chain speed with the 20'' bar,but when you use a 28'' a 7 pin sprocket will help to drive the longer chain,like chainging gears on a bike.

.063'' is the chain drive link thickness.


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## chhonos (Jun 6, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> A 8 pin sprocket will give you more chain speed with the 20'' bar,but when you use a 28'' a 7 pin sprocket will help to drive the longer chain,like chainging gears on a bike.
> 
> .063'' is the chain drive link thickness.



Thanks for the info! I take it that 0.63 is what I have...so standard...and 0.50 is for thinner cuts basically ?


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## sawfun9 (Jun 6, 2013)

.063 is what I use on 36" and longer bars due to it's strength and a wider channel to carry more oil. I use .050 on 32" and smaller bars for lighter weight and it's usually a bit more common to get. Here in the PNW, .058 isn't seen much.


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## fastLeo151 (Jun 6, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Hey. So I finally decided to get the R version. I brought the saw back and placed the order yesterday.
> Now about the sprocket. Which size does the saw come with? 7 or 8?
> As for the muffler, I take it that is something I can just buy somewhere? But they have different types...



Thats cool, my stupid dealers wont order me a R version because they think there only for rescue. The other dealer said he cant even get one


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## H 2 H (Jun 6, 2013)

The Stihl dealer in Woolley (PNW) has "R" models right on the shelf with all the other models 

That new concrete saw looks bad a$$ !


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## chhonos (Jun 14, 2013)

*Update!*

Hey everyone! So i have now used my new MS461R a few times and its amazing!!! It ripped through the hard walnut tree I cut up yesterday really really fast! The high output oiler seemed to work great!
Now I do have a few questions for modification. I have read some of the other threads on here about modifying the MS460. However, I am wondering if some of you can help me better understand my options. 

First, I have already purchased an 8 tooth 3/8 pitch sprocket as I am primarily using a 20"ES bar. According to my calculations, this should increase the RPM by apx 14%? What I am wondering is whether this new sprocket will put any additional strain on the engine?

Second, I am considering porting the muffler. From what I have read on the 460 threads, it will increase the hp and torque....basically make the saw run better? I am wondering if this is really worth doing? If I do it on my 461, what is the best way to do it?
I noticed that there was an OEM STIHL dual port muffler cover (1128-140-0801). The dealer says that it is not listed for the 461! I was wondering if it will fit? In addition, there are different aftermarket dual port mufflers available. Does anyone know what the best option would be?
In addition, I was also wondering whether putting a dual port muffler on will affect the saw on a long term basis? Basically what do I need to know about the pros and cons of a dual port muffler?


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 14, 2013)

how much oil did ya use to a tank of mix? mine don't use any more than my standard 460.


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## chhonos (Jun 14, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> how much oil did ya use to a tank of mix? mine don't use any more than my standard 460.



Standard stihl mix of 50:1.


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## dooby (Jun 14, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> how much oil did ya use to a tank of mix? mine don't use any more than my standard 460.



opcorn:


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## Trx250r180 (Jun 14, 2013)

an oil thread :cool2:


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## mdavlee (Jun 14, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Hey everyone! So i have now used my new MS461R a few times and its amazing!!! It ripped through the hard walnut tree I cut up yesterday really really fast! The high output oiler seemed to work great!
> Now I do have a few questions for modification. I have read some of the other threads on here about modifying the MS460. However, I am wondering if some of you can help me better understand my options.
> 
> First, I have already purchased an 8 tooth 3/8 pitch sprocket as I am primarily using a 20"ES bar. According to my calculations, this should increase the RPM by apx 14%? What I am wondering is whether this new sprocket will put any additional strain on the engine?
> ...



460 dual port will fit. There is no bad points to doing a muffler mod as long as the saw is retuned so it isn't running lean. The 20" with an 8 pin will be fine as long as you don't try to really push on the saw in the cut.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 14, 2013)

sorry, didn't make my self clear. I meant how much bar oil does your saw use to a tank of gas.


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## chhonos (Jun 15, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> sorry, didn't make my self clear. I meant how much bar oil does your saw use to a tank of gas.



Hey, sorry...
umm, well to be honest I havent paid attention to that. I just topped up the oil every time I filled up a new tank....
And I have maybe filled up 4 times so far. I would say maybe 1/2 oil to one tank of gas...probably less...more like 1/3 oil to one tank of gas.
Thoughts?


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## chhonos (Jun 15, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> 460 dual port will fit. There is no bad points to doing a muffler mod as long as the saw is retuned so it isn't running lean. The 20" with an 8 pin will be fine as long as you don't try to really push on the saw in the cut.



Sorry, but what do you mean "as long as you don't try to really push on it"??? I used the saw yesterday and compared to my old MS361, I can push on it MUCH more! Care to explain your comment? I am not sure I really understand the logic behind the mechanics of what you are talking about!


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## 7sleeper (Jun 15, 2013)

@ chhonos

If you are happy by how it performs at the moment and it is sufficient for your type of cutting, I wouldn't change a thing. I'd just make sure the carb is set right and run the sh!t out of it. Usually all modifications void the warrenty. Break in time is something like 10-20 refills, so I would first descide after that.

7


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 15, 2013)

mine is using less than a tank of oil to a full tank of gas. oiler is turned all the way up. I don.t under stand this as both of my standard 460s use almost a full tank of oil to a tank of gas. I love the 461r it is stronger than my 460s but shouldn't the high volume oiler use more than a standard oiler?


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## mdavlee (Jun 15, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Sorry, but what do you mean "as long as you don't try to really push on it"??? I used the saw yesterday and compared to my old MS361, I can push on it MUCH more! Care to explain your comment? I am not sure I really understand the logic behind the mechanics of what you are talking about!



Some people try to push on the saw too much and will bog it down or load it below peak power. If you're pushing to try to cut faster then you need to look at ways to improve the chain so it will self feed at a good pace and load the saw.


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## chhonos (Jun 15, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> mine is using less than a tank of oil to a full tank of gas. oiler is turned all the way up. I don.t under stand this as both of my standard 460s use almost a full tank of oil to a tank of gas. I love the 461r it is stronger than my 460s but shouldn't the high volume oiler use more than a standard oiler?



Hey, so I ran a tank through the saw today! I started with a full tank of gas and oil. By the end of the tank of gas there was roughly just under half a tank of oil left in the tank. I checked and the oiler is turned up All the way. Weird....


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 15, 2013)

yea, in my opinion these saws should put out way more than that.


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## Trx250r180 (Jun 16, 2013)

My 461 was like that when new,now its oiling more or i am getting better fuel economy now it os broke in,my 660 did same thing when new,now its a tank to a tank


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## Andrew Wellman (Jun 16, 2013)

*Do the Muffler mod your self*



mdavlee said:


> 460 dual port will fit. There is no bad points to doing a muffler mod as long as the saw is retuned so it isn't running lean. The 20" with an 8 pin will be fine as long as you don't try to really push on the saw in the cut.



A month ago just ported a 441 that had with a stock muffler that I modded to match the ported saw. I can't remember what was inside the muffler at the moment or even it it was a splitable muffler. Anyways, take a file or a grinder and open the up the exhaust port 2.5x over stock. Remove all chips from the muffler before you put it back on. It can back breath any metal that you leave free in the muffler and destroy you p/c. While its off look inside to see if the muffler has baffles that you ran remove or enlarge the perforations in the baffle. Again clean up the edges of your work and remove all metal flakes or grindings. You also can braze on an extra port if you feel so inclined. I like to keep the new ports flowing the direction of the orignal exhaust, I figure the designers knew what they were doing, regarding flow and direction. My 2 cents. 

andy


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## Philip Wheelock (Jun 16, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> ... the 461r it is stronger than my 460s but shouldn't the high volume oiler use more than a standard oiler?



One would think that a high-output oiler would nearly empty the tank for every full tank of fuel?


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 16, 2013)

Philip Wheelock said:


> One would think that a high-output oiler would nearly empty the tank for every full tank of fuel?



well, I would have thought.


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## bnmc98 (Jun 16, 2013)

I have about an 1/8th of an oil tank left after 1 tank gas on my 461. that is after I turned it down a bit cause it would be empty when gas is empty. I use 30 weight on my 28" bar


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## chhonos (Jun 26, 2013)

Hey so I found out an interesting tid bit! My mechanic at my Stihl dealer said that there is actually NO high output oiler on the R version? He said its bull cuz if you order a new oiler, the part number is exactly the same on the regular and R versions....
Also, he said that in terms of a tank of gas to a tank of oil....that is just no longer the case with the STIHL saws. He said it used to be about 1:1, but now they are making them differently and it is normal to have a 1/4 tank of oil left at the end of each tank.


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## MCW (Jun 26, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Hey so I found out an interesting tid bit! My mechanic at my Stihl dealer said that there is actually NO high output oiler on the R version? He said its bull cuz if you order a new oiler, the part number is exactly the same on the regular and R versions....
> Also, he said that in terms of a tank of gas to a tank of oil....that is just no longer the case with the STIHL saws. He said it used to be about 1:1, but now they are making them differently and it is normal to have a 1/4 tank of oil left at the end of each tank.



I think your mechanic is wrong. There are two oiler part numbers listed for those saws and the R versions get the higher output oiler. This is backed up by my Stihl dealer and my Stihl CD 
Send a PM to our resident Stihl guru and actual Stihl dealer "bennn*e" and he'll fill you in with all the facts you need.

EDIT: 

Just spoke to Bennn*e and gathered the following intel...

Part number for the HO oiler is 1128 640 3250 and this is listed for the "R" versions.
Part number for the standard oiler is 1128 640 3206 is listed for the 046, 441, 460, and 461 non "R" versions.


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## chhonos (Jun 26, 2013)

Hmm interesting. Good to know! 
I got my info from walkers saw shop (on the oiler info). 
He said they were the same on the R and regular versions. Maybe that is just out west??


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 26, 2013)

idk boys, I cut some big white oak and hickory yesterday, n I dam sure wish this saw would oil more. I hate to pull the clutch and work on a saw only a few months old, but this is silly. I swear my ol 460s put out more.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 26, 2013)

hears a thought, how do ya know ya got a real R, or a standard the dealer put a 3/4wrap and large clutch cover on?


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## dooby (Jun 26, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> sorry, didn't make my self clear. I meant how much bar oil does your saw use to a tank of gas.



Just buttin' in but out west we shoot for tank for tank.


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## MCW (Jun 27, 2013)

chhonos said:


> Hmm interesting. Good to know!
> I got my info from walkers saw shop (on the oiler info).
> He said they were the same on the R and regular versions. Maybe that is just out west??



Hey it's possible that there are regional variations but both oiler part numbers are listed on the Stihl dealer CD.
Stranger things have happened in Stihl over the years


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