# Throw line



## kuhndog (Jan 30, 2010)

Had to ask?How do the pro's keep your throw lines untangled.I have a bag do you just stuff it in or do you wrap it up? Thanks just want to save time.


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## Komitet (Jan 30, 2010)

I wrap mine on an old Extension cord holder, like this one,

http://media.mydoitbest.com/imagerequest.aspx?sku=501476&size=2&warehouse=C&newsize=600


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## JeffL (Jan 30, 2010)

You pile the rope in so the coils lay on top of each other, no tangles, no snags!


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## tree md (Jan 30, 2010)

I use a cube like this one:


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## EdenT (Jan 30, 2010)

:agree2: The cube is fantastic.

Also if you are laying out the line do, lay it on a tarp. Throwline is magnetic to twigs, grass, leaves and any of these will become the nucleus of a knot.


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## kuhndog (Jan 30, 2010)

Thanks,went to this instead of hauling a ladder and setting a rope.I can place it 20,30 feet higher and quicker,safer.Thanks, Dave


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## Komitet (Jan 30, 2010)

Personally, don't like the cubes, too big for my gear bag, most of my work is well off road, and bags always get the magical birds nest about 20 Feet after it leaves your fingers.


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## Golf (Jan 30, 2010)

tree md said:


> I use a cube like this one:



One of the best accessaries I ever bought.


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## tree md (Jan 30, 2010)

Komitet said:


> Personally, don't like the cubes, too big for my gear bag, most of my work is well off road, and bags always get the magical birds nest about 20 Feet after it leaves your fingers.



Hmm... Mine folds up to about 10 or 12 inches and is very compact. I finally got tired of fighting all the birds nests that came with the bag, not to mention the time it took to flake it back into the small bag. I went to the cube and no looking back for me. Love that thing.

Back in the day I would wrap my slick line around a 6 inch limb that I would cut.


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## oscar4883 (Jan 30, 2010)

Recently purchased a el cheapo cube and am loving it. Going to use it for my back-up throwline and get a Faltheimer for my main throwline.


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## mndlawn (Jan 30, 2010)

Golf said:


> One of the best accessaries I ever bought.



:agree2: Ditto


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## JeffL (Jan 30, 2010)

I went from a bag to the cube just at Christmas, I can't believe I didn't do it sooner, just easier in every respect.


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## Komitet (Jan 30, 2010)

I had a cube for a while, I use a doctor style gear bag, the cube was too big folded and would only fit in the bottom of the bag, forcing me to take everything out just to set a line, to each their own though, whatever works best.


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## ATH (Jan 30, 2010)

I bought a bag that I think was marketed as a collaposable trash can in the camping section at Target. It is probably 8-10" in diameter and 12" tall. It has a spring that holds it up/open, zipper top, and clips that hold it folded down. I cut round separators so that I can put a few lines in the bag and weights on top. It has worked great - rarely a tangle, folds up small enough to keep in my rope bag, and I keep long line, short line and extra line all together with the weights.


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## kuhndog (Jan 31, 2010)

*Thanks*

Since I had a 6" weaver bag (I didn't like) and my wife already extended to 12" first thing this morning I cut a 1"x4" into an H and wrapped it up.I like the throw it over a branch to unwind idea.This way also not buying anything else.Thanks,Dave


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## bruce6670 (Jan 31, 2010)

I use a 2 gallon mop bucket from the dollar store.I've never had a problem.


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## Crow Horse (Feb 3, 2010)

There's a product I stumbled into called a shotline winder. I have no experience with it but it looks interesting. Alternately, one could fab something similar from a electical cord reel.....


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## tree md (Feb 3, 2010)

Crow Horse said:


> There's a product I stumbled into called a shotline winder. I have no experience with it but it looks interesting. Alternately, one could fab something similar from a electical cord reel.....



Someone on here posted directions on how to make one a couple of years back complete with pics. I am about 99% sure it was Tree Machine. Might do a search and see what you can find.


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## EdenT (Feb 4, 2010)

tree md said:


> Someone on here posted directions on how to make one a couple of years back complete with pics. I am about 99% sure it was Tree Machine. Might do a search and see what you can find.



Yes it was Tree Machine. I believe the pic above was the one he developed (and marketed). Apparently it took quite a few prototypes before he reached the final product. Go on, buy one of his and save yourself some pain, and support a fellow arborist with plenty of smarts and initiative.


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## tree md (Feb 4, 2010)

EdenT said:


> Yes it was Tree Machine. I believe the pic above was the one he developed (and marketed). Apparently it took quite a few prototypes before he reached the final product. Go on, buy one of his and save yourself some pain, and support a fellow arborist with plenty of smarts and initiative.



How come that doesn't surprise me a bit. 

TM is a crafty devil. A mad genius I tell you! Ever see his treadmill floor invention for his chip truck??? 

I might have to look into buying on of those shot winders.


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## Tree Machine (Feb 5, 2010)

Hi Guys and gals.

Tree md, you flatter me. EdenT, thank you for the plug.

I just stumbled onto this thread and was quite surprised to see the shotline winder pictured. It has only been available a couple weeks as of this writing. If I may, please let me share.

If you do a search here or any of the other 4 arborist forums, type in 'winder' or 'reel'. Yes, a number of times in years past I have shown how you can make one of these and encouraged the readership to do so because the reel works so very well in saving time and hassle, I just wanted to share the knowledge. In the last few months, though, the community pressure to produce one for sale has been,... lets say I finally gave into peer pressure.

Throwline management has been an ongoing issue since the invention of the shotbag and is central to anyone who sets ropes, whether by hand-throwing the shotbag or by using the bigshot. The key to success in using any throwline is not getting it tangled. Second in importance is how fast you can employ the line and how fast it can be put away. 

It's hard to become good with the throwline if its a PITA to deal with the line, whether before or after the rope set. Thats what the goal was with this reel; ease of line management, making the act of setting a rope swift and hassle-free. I have spent dozens of hours sharing with the Arb community so they can eliminate the headaches of dealing with throwline but information only goes so far without an actual product to back it up.


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## Tree Machine (Feb 5, 2010)

SO, a commercial shotline management tool _specifically for arborists_ is now available.

The shotline winder is intended to save you time, make the general use of throwline easier and streamline the rope setting process, beginning-to-end.
The reel is made for professionals who do this day in and day out and whose time is best spent climbing an caring for trees.

To some of you, this may sound like shameless self-promotion, but let me be crystal clear. I will make $1 per reel royalty. I make money every day in using it in doing tree care. I'm an Arborist. I am not a manufacturer, and don't want to be, though each and every reel will pass through my hands before it goes out to you. I committed to being the quality control guy. I also built the jigs and established the process so that each reel is consistent and 100% ready to go to work for you.

There's a couple unemployed people who now have jobs because of this, so I feel really good about that.


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## Tree Machine (Feb 5, 2010)

*You do not need to unwind the line* to do a throw or to do a bigshot.
The reel is set on the ground in front of you and you just _throw_. The line spools off the reel with ease, no tangles.

The Bigshot is the same. Set the reel down in front of you and fire. A 70-foot shot is reasonable to expect. 85 feet is my best to date. You can probably go higher. I get kinda freaky-scared stretching the bigshot back really far.


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## RacerX (Feb 5, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> *You do not need to unwind the line* to do a throw or to do a bigshot.
> The reel is set on the ground in front of you and you just _throw_. The line spools off the reel with ease, no tangles.
> 
> The Bigshot is the same. Set the reel down in front of you and fire. A 70-foot shot is reasonable to expect. 85 feet is my best to date. You can probably go higher. I get kinda freaky-scared stretching the bigshot back really far.



How do you wind the line back up? It seems that if you don't unwind it to use the big shot then coming off of the end of that reel would put twists in the line.


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## Tree Machine (Feb 5, 2010)

RacerX said:


> How do you wind the line back up?



There is *both* a fixed handle, and a swivel, a big, saltwater, stainless steel one. Take the handle, or the swivel, whichever you like better. One hand winds, the other holds the center pivot handle and you wind like a mo-fo. You pinch the line between your legs to create an ideal tension on the line and you keep your eye on the reel as you're winding and make a nice, even, shallow conical buildup of line and _you're done. _ 




> It seems that if you don't unwind it to use the big shot then coming off of the end of that reel would put twists in the line.


It does. The entire line is a twist, and the bag generally _untwists_ the line on the way down. That's a very important point.

The smaller the drum, the more the twist you will get. The drum here is pretty big, much larger compared to even a big saltwater spin-casting reel, which is _the same exact principle_ as we are employing here. If you take a kid fishing, will his fishing line spin if he is using a spin-casting reel? Yes. But it doesn't twist as to affect performance, and you go on fishing all day. Same thing here. A twist is given to the shotline on every shot, but it just doesn't seem to matter much in the sense of performance.

It does not impart even an annoying spin, or twist. I like to see it as a helix that undoes itself on the way back down.  You can let the bag hang until it's it's all spun-out if you wanted to, but
I don't. _You just don't want it to ever get spun into a kink_, and that's rather unusual though it can happen. With the occasional kink, you'll always catch it because the kink would have to go through your pinched thighs (your line tensioners, and you would feel it. Give a kink a little _un_twist and keep on reeling.


Those are good questions. In fact, they are about the best questions that could be asked.

Anybody can ask me anything.


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## Tree Machine (Feb 5, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> I have a question


What up, dawg?


Tree Machine said:


> You should post a video


That's a good suggestion, Tree Machine. You should make one.


Tree Machine said:


> Don't you have one from a few years ago, a former model?


Yes, as a matter of fact, Tree Machine, I do. That version of the reel worked _really well._


Tree Machine said:


> So is the new model better?


Frickin hey it is! I'm so very pleased with the upgrade with this newest model that I could almost weep as I stand here and tell you about it.


Tree Machine said:


> Don't get dramatic.


Sorry.


Tree Machine said:


> So ..... the video I asked for?


Oh, yea, let me introduce it to the 7 or 8 guys reading this who are interested in it (you know who you are). 
The video is simply a 12oz shotbag being fired about 60 feet into a tree, right off the reel, then how the line is flaked onto the ground while pulling the rope up and over, and the reeling in of the entire length (~120 feet) back onto the reel, the shotbag threaded around the drum and over the handle and that's all folks.


Tree Machine said:


> Any time now.....


Ok, ok, you are the most impatient person I know.


Tree Machine said:


> Right back at ya!


Smartazz


Tree Machine said:


> Takes one to know one.


All right already. 

Ten years of research, development and field testing, thousands of throws and shots and literally, *40 seasons of use*, and it all gets distilled down to this _one minute video_.


Tree Machine said:


> Oooohhh, suspense.


Your sarcasm is annoying me.


Tree Machine said:


> You gotta live with it.



Heh, heh. :sword:

So finally, here is the videohttp://treeguy.info/videos/shotline_reel.mov 
It is only about a minute long. And real amateur , there are a few still-shots of earlier model reels at the end of the video. 
I have it crunched down so it will stream to you faster.


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## tree md (Feb 5, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> What up, dawg?
> That's a good suggestion, Tree Machine. You should make one.
> Yes, as a matter of fact, Tree Machine, I do. That version of the reel worked _really well._Frickin hey it is! I'm so very pleased with the upgrade with this newest model that I could almost weep as I stand here and tell you about it.
> Sorry.
> ...



:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## EdenT (Feb 5, 2010)

Great vid - How's that whole multiple personality thing working out for you?:yourock:


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## Tree Machine (Feb 5, 2010)

EdenT said:


> Great vid - How's that whole multiple personality thing working out for you?



It does the tango with my attention deficit disorder.


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## RacerX (Feb 6, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> It does the tango with my attention deficit disorder.



Tree Machine, what kind of throw line do you use in that video?


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## Tree Machine (Feb 6, 2010)

*100 feet of each*

Hmmmm, _likely_ it was 1.75 mm dyneema Zing-It by Sampson. I say 'likely' because I try out every new line that comes on the market.

At present I'm running equal lengths of Zing-It and Fling-it, chemically identical polymers, but a slightly different weave as you can see by the picture below. The orange Fling-It seems to be just a wee bit 'slicker'.
Clearly I need to learn how to splice ends together:


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## Tree Machine (Feb 6, 2010)

I found another video.

Again, crude. and rustic, just winding the reel up. This reel version was minimalist, and I was into going as compact as practically possible.
A base plate was added, a shallow hole cut into it. You would use a stick as the winding handle. The thinking is, there is going to be a stick available to each and every of you out there because, well because we are treeguys and sticks is just part of what we do.

Enjoy the view of this very early trial. It worked.

get some popcorn.


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## bruce6670 (Feb 6, 2010)

That little device looks pretty cool.I may have to invest in one.


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## Tree Machine (Feb 7, 2010)

A tool that pays for itself in time saved and hassles prevented truly IS an investment. After it covers its 69 dollars, it keeps on giving and giving. That's better than what 69 bucks could do for you in the stock market so thank you, Bruce, for pointing out that this is not simply a purchase, or an expense. 
It pays to know the difference.


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## lumberjack333 (Feb 7, 2010)

Cube is the only way to go, and don't get the cheap one... spend the money for the big guy, its worth it!


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## Tree Machine (Feb 7, 2010)

Hey, look what I found.... a three year-old slideshow. This shotline winder slideshow has never been seen outside of my house.

The slideshow is an historical running of all the different versions of the reel, different sizes, different styles, different shotline, everything except for today's current reel.

This one has music and is used with the permission of the artist, Preston Reed. The name of the song is "Accufuse". 
Still pretty rough as far as video, but learning.

Shotline Winder Slideshow


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