# skid steer debate



## ROLLACOSTA (Jun 11, 2005)

Next purchase i'm debating on is a small skid steer.Yesterday it took me 15mins to grind out 2 stumps ,but it took me 2.5 hours to clear up the stump mess [chips and soil],so i'm wondering if a skidsteer would help me considerably in the clearup operation ,i would also use the skid steer for tree planting ,stump clear ups ,brush dragging [with grapple] ,and i would use a rotorvater/cultivater.

I would like to know which skid steers you guys have?? and what attachments you are using ??


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## fwf (Jun 11, 2005)

Here in the U.S. it is common to get an on-site demo of large equipment such as skid-steers, tractors, etc. Normally with a company rep on hand, you can use the item for several hours to see if will work as expected. I would highly recommend that if the option exists for you.

A few months ago I was impressed by the variety of attachments available for Bobcat skid-steers and did a demo. The machine worked well, but the damage it did to the ground in the course of normal operation was terrible.

I ended up getting a small utility tractor that uses front-mounted skid-steer attachments. With turf tires, it is much more ground-friendly and you can use a full range of rear-mounted PTO attachments if desired. The only downside is size -- the tractor is definitely larger.

Even if the skid-steer was the only option, I would pass, because of the damage caused by the normal skid-steer turning operation.

Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.


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## tophopper (Jun 11, 2005)

A mini is the only way to- minimal turf damage and access to the back yards


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## Lawn Masters (Jun 11, 2005)

I've heard Bobcat makes a skidsteer that has 4 wheel steering and turf tires. that might be worth looking into as well.


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## redprospector (Jun 11, 2005)

In my opinion, which is all I am qualified to give. If you're going with a skidsteer, go with Bobcat. I have an 863 that has never failed me. It's big enough to do some small scale logging, small enough I don't have to have a big truck to move it, and it has always done most anything I ask of it.
As far as tearing up the ground, yea it will, unless you want to take the time to learn how to operate the machine (there is a big difference between operating and running a machine). I use over the tire tracks most of the time, they make this machine capable of going places most people wouldn't carry a quart of oil. I use a grapple bucket for moving brush and logs, forks for moving lumber and pallats, a snow plow, back hoe, post hole auger, etc.
They have an attachment for just about anything you want to do. I have found that once you have learned to "operate" a Bobcat that it is much quicker than a tractor.

Andy


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## a_lopa (Jun 11, 2005)

dingo rolla,there was one on e bay for 18k with stumpgrinder attachment,full set augers (good money maker there)4in 1 etc.if your going across grass the dingo wins.


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## Koa Man (Jun 13, 2005)

I have a mini skidsteer that I am very happy with and also a mini articulated wheel loader. My skidsteer will pass through a 36 inch gate, the wheel loader will not (40 inches wide). The wheel loader will not tear up lawns, and is very manuverable, but cannot turn on a dime like the skidsteer and for me, is slower to operate. I also cannot run the stump grinder on it because the hyd. flow is only 8.5 gpm. My Terra stumper requires a min. on 10.....my skidsteer puts out 14 so it works very well. Cleaning up the grindings is piece of cake with the bucket. The grinding is slower, but add up the total time if you need to move the grindings and the mini wins. The bigger machines will lift more but will not get in a lot of places I need to get. Also I think most homeowners here would start to freak out seeing a big machine running over their lawn. The minis are surprising powerful....If I can move more at one time than 4 guys and not even sweat doing it, that machine is worth every penny to me. Plus it does not get tired, need to get paid, call in sick, or get hurt and is always on time. All it asks for is a little fuel and proper maintenance and its happy. Make the investment...you will be glad you did.

A Bobcat A300 is about $42,000 US. Check out the Multione loaders. The one I would like to get is the SL25...that runs about $26,000 US. The GT series is around $35K.
http://www.multione.com/html/multione.html


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## ROLLACOSTA (Jun 13, 2005)

Good posts guys ,sorry i posted this thread on the wrong forum


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## jerseydevil (Jun 17, 2005)

iI used to work for New Holland and was impressed with their skidsteers. I do recomend getting tracks if you are riding on lawns. it makes a world of difference. Both new holland and bobcat sell small track driven models. :Eye:


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## keith c raymond (Jun 18, 2005)

Bobcat has a great dealer network and A vast array of attachments that you can rent and see if they work for your application.Good luck.


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## DDM (Jun 19, 2005)

I Like my Bobcats I demo'd 3 Cats for a week each and a new holland I Liked the bobcat more of course i've had a Bobcat for 6 yr's So i guess i'm used to them.


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## DDM (Jun 19, 2005)

Even the Older 763 is a Workhorse I guess its not that old it's a 98 model.


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## Thor's Hammer (Jun 19, 2005)

Rolla, there is only one machine I would even think of using and thats an ASV positrac. its on rubber tracks and they dont even mark lawns. up to 125hp with massive flow for stumpgrinding and mulching. Over here you need to speak to Gregor McArthur up in newcastle. will dig out his number. massively impressive machine


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## a_lopa (Jun 20, 2005)

that sounds interesting.


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## Thor's Hammer (Jun 20, 2005)

http://www.asvi.com/


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## disandat (Jul 11, 2005)

That's a really cool machine. Looks real balanced and plenty powerful.


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## priest (Oct 19, 2005)

I'm in the market for a compact track loader and came across this thread. This is the first I've heard of the ASV. I would appreciate any experience anyone has with these machines. I'm especially interested in minimizing turf damage. 

Thanks


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## ROLLACOSTA (Oct 20, 2005)

priest i think ASV only make big machines ,so far the best small skid steer i have seen is made buy these guys www.avanttecno.com


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## ROLLACOSTA (Oct 20, 2005)

AVANTTECNO do a tracked machine which i do not think is on there website yet..though it can be seen on www.listonequipment.co.uk


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## Thor's Hammer (Oct 21, 2005)

priest said:


> I'm in the market for a compact track loader and came across this thread. This is the first I've heard of the ASV. I would appreciate any experience anyone has with these machines. I'm especially interested in minimizing turf damage.
> 
> Thanks



The ASV RC30 is a really compact tracked skid steer. They do a special set of turf tracks for them. I have seen one doing 360 spins on a putting green with out leaving a mark. Highly impressive!


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## priest (Oct 21, 2005)

Thanks for the information guys. Thor's Hammer, which ASV model have you used, and what were the results when turning on turf/soft ground? Do they do significantly less damage than the Bobcats? I would probably be looking at the RC-60 or RC-85, which are 6200lb and 9700lb machines, respectively. 

The machine would be used for hurricane/ice storm cleanup, so I want one with enough power to clear massive amounts of fallen trees quickly, but that still easy enough on the grass and soil to use it back home on standard removals. A tough balance to find, I know (the skid steers I have rented and used tore the hell out of things).

Maybe I'll eventually be able to afford a larger machine for hurricanes and a mini-skid for more delicate and backyard removals, but right now I'm looking for one all-around machine. 

Thanks


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## Thor's Hammer (Oct 21, 2005)

The ASV use a suspended undercarrige. This significantly reduces the damage they do. Best thing is to go on the ASV website, find your local dealer and get some demos.


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## Dadatwins (Oct 21, 2005)

I saw a brochure for these and thought it would be cool to help with stump cleanup and tree planting. Big plus was that it fits in a 36" gate and with the right trailer setup you can carry both the mini loader and the stump grinder. I have not demoed it myself or seen one in action but as always the pictures and brochure look great.

http://www.cpiequipment.com/series.html?series_id=5


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## ROLLACOSTA (Oct 23, 2005)

I like the look and design of this machine Dadatwins...go on guys tell me it's flaws


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## Koa Man (Oct 23, 2005)

The Prowler I have is the same machine, except mine is gas powered, not diesel. It will tear up lawns when making anything but a very wide turn. On very fine lawn grasses it will show some track marks going straight, but no tears. My Gehl Advantage can run over any lawn and make tight turns with no damage. Drawback is it is 40 inches wide. The Prowler has variable tracks, 34 to 43 inches wide.

Eventually, I will sell my Prowler and Gehl and buy one of these. Not sure exactly which model yet.
http://www.multione.com/html/multione.html


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## Leebo (Oct 23, 2005)

I've owned an ASV-RC30 for about 6 months and couldn't be happier with it. The 31 HP Cat engine has surprising power. Cat owns 30% of ASV and supplies the engines. ASV supplies Cat with joystick controls and undercarriages for their 247.


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## priest (Dec 8, 2005)

I got my ASV RC60 in yesterday. Its a beauty. Got a Loflin grapple attachment on it. Now I'm just trying to decide on a trailer to haul it on. 

Been thinking about a 14 ft gooseneck dump with 4 ft sidewalls. 
The plan is to haul the ASV on it to the jobsite, load big wood, trash, etc into the trailer, and go to the dump (smaller limbs would usually be chipped into the chip truck), then come back to pick up the ASV. 

I've even wondered if on big removals it would be faster to load limbs into a dump trailer and compact them by dropping the big logs on top instead of chipping all the brush.

I guess I'll find out. I'll let ya'll know how this baby works out. 

Nate


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## Koa Man (Dec 8, 2005)

It has been my experience, if you have a big chipper (18 in. or bigger cap.), it is faster and more efficient to chip the brush by feeding the chipper with the skidsteer and hauling the logs with the dump trailer. Dropping the big logs on the brush will not pack it down a lot unless you have mulched it with a chain saw first.


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## BruceL (Dec 9, 2005)

*Try a Kubota R420*

I have bought and sold a few of these and they are great. No lawn damage and will use any skidsteer attachment. Just bought a new one for 33K with 0% for 36 months.


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## B-Edwards (Dec 10, 2005)

Rolla and the rest of you guys New-Holland is my choice (because its what ive used the most ) but in the mini line check out the Boxer mini skid tracked ,wheeled, nice loader . Its all bout being able to get to your work and not destroy the lawn, actualy a very dynamic situation . SIte for the boxer i think is powerhouseequipment.com


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## jp hallman (Dec 10, 2005)

Thor's Hammer said:


> Rolla, there is only one machine I would even think of using and thats an ASV positrac. its on rubber tracks and they dont even mark lawns. up to 125hp with massive flow for stumpgrinding and mulching. Over here you need to speak to Gregor McArthur up in newcastle. will dig out his number. massively impressive machine



ASV's have some shortcomings. The Deschutes National Forest owns four and has nothing but trouble with them and their service reps. One with the 80hp Perkins(I don't know the model) didn't have all the bolts in the engine mounts. The cooling fan shredded the oil cooler and it took months to have the thing fixed. This is on a new machine with less than 10 hours. A second machine overheated, caught fire and burned five acres of timber. They get stuck in the snow easy, have CAT undercarriage(not the best design). Are mighty spendy compared with the rest. I could go on. I tried them all at one point or another, in the real world. 
I ended up buying a Gehl(track). Gehl and Mustang are the same machine. Bobcat's are OK, but kinda' light for timber work. You can buy the same attachments for all of em'. I'd let the checkbook decide.


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## Koa Man (Dec 10, 2005)

I have a Prowler, exact same machine as the Boxer, just different labeling, sold by the same company. It will tear up most lawns unless going just straight. It will fit through a 36 inch gate. In contrast, my Gehl AL20DX, will not tear up lawns, even when making as tight a turn possible with the machine, but it is 38.5 inches wide. I use the Gehl whenever possible. I posted pictures of the 
Gehl running on a very wet lawn on the following thread.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=21558&page=2


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## tallrick (Dec 25, 2005)

"As far as tearing up the ground, yea it will, unless you want to take the time to learn how to operate the machine (there is a big difference between operating and running a machine)."

Is it actually possible to use a skid-steer and not tear up a lawn while turning on it? I have never seen anyone use one and not leave torn up grass when making any turns while holding a load. I suppose that it's possible unloaded, but wouldn't a tractor work better? Would love to know the secret of damage-free skidloader turns...


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## Koa Man (Dec 25, 2005)

Unless you are using a skidsteer with smooth tracks like the ASV turf model, you will tear up a lawn with repeated turns, no matter how careful you are. The cleated tracks will dig in no matter what. I have done the slight angle, back and forth, slight angle, back and forth, repeat, repeat, etc. to make a turn and it will be OK for a couple of times. Problem with most yards and moving brush out is that you often have to run and turn repeatedly in the same spot.


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## tallrick (Dec 25, 2005)

When you do that back and forth motion, is there a load in the bucket? What kind of controls are you using to do it? I have never been able to get into a skid loader but they do fascinate me. What I have used so far are tractors and forklifts, and when moving branches and brush it's mostly just loading it on a trailer and pulling it out. If you use a loader in a tight place you are grabbing the load and taking it away to load? Also isn't it kind of rare to be clearing a lot and actually care about the grass if there is any? Also I see Koa's gehl loader on grass, is that a skid steer or articulated? One more thing, why do the some loaders even bother to use turf tires? I really appreciate your taking the time to answer my silly questions.


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## Koa Man (Dec 25, 2005)

Yes, there is a load in the bucket and the controls are the ones on the loader. If it is a lot clearing job, then no need to worry about the grass. I am talking about hauling out brush and logs and traveling over an established lawn. I do a lot of high end homes...multimillion $$ estates. The Gehl is an articulated wheel loader....very good on grass.


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## tallrick (Dec 26, 2005)

Never knew that an articulated loader came in a compact size like that! Is there any particular advantage to using a skid steer instead of articulated? It does seem like the skidloaders are a lot more common and used everywhere. Actually tried to get a job picking up debris after the hurricane but since none of the companies spoke good english it didn't happen. That would have been a good way to try out a skid steer loader, as they had rented both wheeled and tracked.


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## Koa Man (Dec 26, 2005)

A skidsteer can make much tighter turns, 360 in its own length. The articulated loader can make tight turns, but it won't do a 360. The articulated loader is also a little harder to manuver in a real tight space because sometimes a part of the machine is moving toward something you don't want to hit, because of the articulation. It is hard to explain....you need to drive one, then you will know what I am talking about. But because the articulated loader is so turf friendly, I will probably sell my miniskid, even though it will fit through a 36" gate and the Gehl won't...I need 40" for that.


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## tallrick (Dec 26, 2005)

You've got a good point about articulation, while I have not driven a loader I have used an articulated roller and know exactly what you mean about the turns. The hydraulic ram just pulls one side together, and you turn , but in the process something on the machine may hit something if you're close. Believe it or not I have never driven a skid loader and am dying to try one out.You have a skid loader under 36 inches wide, can you sit in it or is it a walk behind? I can't imagine something that small doing a lot of damage to a lawn though. Something else I would love to try out. Where does one go to get experience with these different machines?


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## Koa Man (Dec 26, 2005)

I have a Prowler, a stand on ride behind machine. A mini is capable of ripping up grass just as well as a full size one, just not as fast.


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## Leebo (Dec 27, 2005)

tallrick said:


> Something else I would love to try out. Where does one go to get experience with these different machines?



If you are serious about buying or just can "seem" serious; most of the dealers around here will bring a machine out and let you use it for a couple of days to a week. You have to contact the company, meet with the salesman for your area, express a sincere interest in a particular machine, hem & haw a little comparing it to another similar machine that the compitition let you try a couple of weeks ago and wait for the salesman's offer to try their machine. Failing that you can always rent the machine for a 1/2 day or day and try it out. Cat and Bobcat also offer classes for skidsteer operators.


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## tallrick (Dec 27, 2005)

So, it's possible to take classes on skid steer use? I actually asked the Bobcat dealer in Miami but they had never heard of such a thing. Of course the dealers down there don't seem very interested in selling anything, just talking on their cell phones, I guess the machines sell themself. Buying one is something I have thought of, if they can do the work to make it profitable. The next time I am offered a lot clearing or topsoil spreading it would be a good idea to rent one if it can perform better than the small tractor. One idea I was given is to try and find someone who uses skid steers and take a job with them for a few days, I like the idea, but who would hire someone for only a few days? If the skid steer loader isn't too hard to operate, and does the job it's what I need. The guys I have hired who have used them swear they are the best, my only concern is perfoamance and how much damage they can do. Also are they rugged enough to lift and move small trees? Can you pull out an uprooted stump or will it tip forward?


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## lumberjach (Dec 27, 2005)

I too would recomend an articulated loader like a kabota or Terex. I have run lots of loaders and even trashed a few yards. I dont think you can go wrong with articulated. It may be a little bigger but in my expierience you can get it in tighter places just because the way it manuevers. Good luck


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## Leebo (Dec 27, 2005)

tallrick,
You need to honestly evaluate what you need to do with one of these machines. I spent two years trying different models, talking to everyone I could find who had any experience, studying the values of used equipment, etc; before deciding and making a purchase. But I didn't have an immeadiate business need which would have been a different story. Koa Man is right in saying that they all tear up a lawn. I chose an ASV track loader because I am working in a woods which stays wet to damp for 8 months out of a year. I didn't want a big machine because I have to scoot around through the trees. I haven't had any problems with my ASV and have good service people 40 miles away. I don't think that you could get a job for a couple of days as a skid steer operator with no experience. Renting one would be the only way to get your feet wet that I can think of, unless you have a friend who would lend you one for a weekend.


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## tallrick (Dec 28, 2005)

It's funny, because I had a friend with a Bobcat 743 which I helped him repair, the pump had disintegrated, spewing metal shavings throughout the system. Also the injectors had become clogged on the engine due to fungus in the fuel tank. We negotiated the price, and he got the machine cheap than I helped by disassembling and listing the parts he needed. After he got them we put it all together. I never bothered to try and drive the thing, because at the time I was working as a network administrator, and never thought much of outside labor. Eventually I had a second chance as his wife was having a baby and he asked if I could handle his jobs for a week, even though I was on vacation and could have done it I went on a cruise instead. Now that I think about it I would have rather been using the Bobcat than having fun on the ship. By the way he moved from Florida a few years ago and now owns a supply yard in Minnesota.

Most of the work I do now involves fertilization of existing trees and removing damaged ones for homes and businesses. Don't know if I need a skid steer or not but want to see what they can and can't do. I have really appreciated the advice too! I am going to start talking to every landscaper I meet until I can make a new friend or friends. Should be able to learn a lot that way!


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## Timberjackboy (Dec 30, 2005)

*RIP HER ZTO SHREDs*

who cares about the lawn ripper up boys, give the landscapers some work, In this bussiness you gotta do your brothers a favour, scre wthe skid steer, buy a d-4 cat dozer take that acros her, thatill pull your trees:angry2:  :spam:


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## Koa Man (Dec 30, 2005)

You are joking, aren't you? If you serious, well, my comments would not be allowed on this board.


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## Timberjackboy (Dec 31, 2005)

Koa Man said:


> You are joking, aren't you? If you serious, well, my comments would not be allowed on this board.


Somone didn't take their happy pills today, and maybe a case 850 would work better :angry2: :bang:


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