# Felling tree with decay.



## 1967 Tempest (Mar 29, 2015)

I have a tree in my back yard that, if in the woods and not near my house, I would fell no sweat.

Not sure what kind of tree,(I'll post pics when I get home, hopefully the snow will be gone) I wanna say a Beech. It has a big chunk of decay from the root to about 4-5' up. I would say 20% of the tree is gone. No insects that I can see.

There is a solid 6" Maple tree that I will use to help guide tree etc.. . 

The tree is alive. My main concern is a barber chair or a break before I get the back cut or trigger cut. 

1: I was going to use the 70* front face cut, then plunge cut, install wedges and the cut trigger. Is this still the preferred method.

2: I was thinking of wrapping the tree above the decay tightly with rope or using several ratchet straps to "hold" the tree together. Good, bad dangerous?

3: The tree is about 20-22" across, should I use more like a 2" hinge because of the rot? 

4: should I cut lower or higher.

I ask because of the decay. I'm still on the fence as wether to hire a pro. 

Pics to come.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 29, 2015)

Whats it near? Where does it lean? Which side is the rot on compared to lean and desired direction of fall?

Otherwise a good chain or some good rope wrapped above the cut will help, but not a guarantee. 

If the rotten bit is on the face or back side then it shouldn't be much of a problem. However... if its on the hinge side, it will make for a bad day, especially if its near any buildings or other high value targets, think of the rotten bit as having zero hold wood on that side, the tree will turn away from that side...

Any way, check if for soundness all the way through, lots of times the rot you see on the outside, carries straight through the center and will hollow out a log, leaving just a rind of live tree, if that is the case, by all means hire a pro, but if its just a sliver of rot, and its not on your holding wood sides have at.


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## 1967 Tempest (Mar 29, 2015)

More to come with the pictures. But the hinge and back would be opposite of the rot.


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## Spotted Owl (Mar 29, 2015)

1967 Tempest said:


> I have a tree in my back yard that, if in the woods and not near my house, I would fell no sweat.
> 
> I ask because of the decay. I'm still on the fence as wether to hire a pro.
> 
> Pics to come.





Being on the fence answers your own question.

Hire a pro.



Owl


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## 1967 Tempest (Mar 29, 2015)

That's why I'm weighing options. If I hire a pro he isn't gonna teach me what he's doing.

Then I won't learn. If this was the 65" oak in front of house I wouldn't be asking.

Not trying to be mean or anything. But I think that the tree is within my pay grade. When you see pics it might make more sense.


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## slowp (Mar 29, 2015)

1967 Tempest said:


> That's why I'm weighing options. If I hire a pro he isn't gonna teach me what he's doing.
> 
> Then I won't learn. If this was the 65" oak in front of house I wouldn't be asking.
> 
> Not trying to be mean or anything. But I think that the tree is within my pay grade. When you see pics it might make more sense.



Nonsense. Watch what the pro is doing. You won't be an expert after watching one tree, but you'll probably learn something. Either way, you won't be an expert. But one way you'll live to do another tree or won't go broke paying off the medical bills and or damage. 

And, it doesn't sound to me like you are "weighing options". To me it sounds like you already have your mind made up and are looking for Go for its.


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## Spotted Owl (Mar 29, 2015)

1967 Tempest said:


> Not trying to be mean or anything. But I think that the tree is within my pay grade. When you see pics it might make more sense.



Photos don't make a hill of anything. You aren't comfortable/capable doing this or you wouldn't be on the fence. Being in your "pay grade" and being capable are not the same thing. Lots of people get away with things they are not capable of doing.

slowp's is right, you don't have to be taught, in order to learn.

Let's see. You, have rot, don't know where to cut, don't know how much hinge to use, and are going to guide this mess with something your tree is 4 time bigger than. Build up your confidence before your start, cause you're gonna need it.

No skin off my nose, do what you want. You asked, so I answered.



Owl


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## 1967 Tempest (Mar 29, 2015)

Thank you.


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## bnmc98 (Mar 29, 2015)

What way is it leaning? If I had a rotten tree near my house and I did not have experience with them.... Get a bucket truck to come in and take it down piece by piece. You will save the deductible on the insurance and the fact that your insurance company will cancel you as high risk and it will be hell and you will pay through the nose finding other insurance (if you can find it) if you put that thing through the roof.


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## 2dogs (Mar 30, 2015)

Hire a climber to piece it down to where the stob can not hit the house regardless which way it falls. Then cut it yourself. Remember the number one rule when working on hazard trees near a house...always have someone video the event.


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## HuskStihl (Mar 30, 2015)

1967 Tempest said:


> 1: I was going to use the 70* front face cut, then plunge cut, install wedges and the cut trigger.* Is this still the preferred method?.*


Not in this particular corner of AS. You've received real advice from real fallers, I'd just like to see a few pictures.


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## 1967 Tempest (Mar 30, 2015)

I've looked from all angles. The tree has 0* to 1* of lean. In the direction of the intended fall.

Rot is in heartwood on bottom of tree.

The top has 2 main forks and some scattered branches.

Guessing but, probably 25-30*. I'm not in front of the tree.

Was gonna take tree down last year. Ran out of good weather. Had a neighbors standing dead Ash, 8" at bottom hit the house Friday morning. Scared the crap out of us. That's why I was looking at this May. Once I'm healthy enough to use planned escape route. The tree doesn't sway in some really strong winds we've had, but summer is coming and hot humid storm winds , which are common here due to the lake and seem to blow harder than drier air, might be enough to move the top of the tree if the leaves are on it, The tree might not handle it.

Thank you.


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## bitzer (Mar 30, 2015)

Pictures


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## bnmc98 (Mar 30, 2015)

Just fyi, I've cut dead green stuff that had center rot. The tree can come over (and has) before the first cut in the face is done. Better be dead on with your read on the lean. Took me a year of cutting daily to be 95% accurate on my lean reads. Just saying.


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## HuskStihl (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm actually pretty close to 100% with regards to figuring out the lean. After I cut them down, that is.


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## bnmc98 (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm saying with particular to neutral looking trees. Those are the hard ones. If he is saying one degree, in my book, thats a hard read, especially without experience. heavy leaners are easy to read, neutral can switch on you with a light breeze. What about canopy weight and direction?


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## SliverPicker (Mar 30, 2015)

Fly me out. I'll drop it for you for free. I've cut one or two rotten culls in the past.


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## 1967 Tempest (Apr 2, 2015)

So you can see pretty straight as far as lean goes. But looking again, the canopy weight is more on nonfell direction.
Thanks


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 2, 2015)

not much to make a hinge with there


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## HuskStihl (Apr 2, 2015)

Looks like it's going into the garden no matter what you do


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## Westboastfaller (Apr 2, 2015)

IDK, Im a Faller and certified wildlife and Danger tree assessor for wild land fires and also Havesting and Silviculture module Also. Having said that, It sure as f* doesn't make me able to assess a tree properly from a picture. Is it in limits of approach with that powerline?
how many Volts...how far away if the tree fell directly to the line? Oh you don't know that? Maybe you have to have a Certified Utility Arborist (CUA)
(LOA)It means that power can arc to that tree if it, or your tools get in 'that distance' (will very with increased KVs of the line) That means it can fry you at the stump.

Put a rope in it! Your not qualified to assess that, not sure if its doable without a rope? Its got to be a 100% thing. Not 99.8%


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## madhatte (Apr 2, 2015)

Any chance of getting above the catface and into good wood?


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## Gologit (Apr 2, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> I'm actually pretty close to 100% with regards to figuring out the lean. After I cut them down, that is.



Yup, and after they're on the ground you just stand there looking cool and in your best manly man voice say "I meant for that to happen that way".
Or, if your voice is failing you, just glare at anybody who witnessed your latest fiasco...daring them to say something... and face up your next tree.

Back on topic...OP, hire somebody with equipment, experience, and insurance to take that tree down. Watch how they do it. Bring 'em a pizza at lunch time, pick their brain a little. You might be surprised at how willing they are to spare their knowledge and experience with you.


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## moondoggie (Apr 2, 2015)

Gologit said:


> Yup, and after they're on the ground you just stand there looking cool and in your best manly man voice say "I meant for that to happen that way".
> Or, if your voice is failing you, just glare at anybody who witnessed your latest fiasco...daring them to say something... and face up your next tree.


Chuck Norris......


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## rwoods (Apr 2, 2015)

I can't judge distances in your pictures, but if the tree is anywhere close to hitting one of those power lines call the power company and let them know you have a "danger tree". They will be more than happy to put it on the ground if it is in fact within reach of their lines. Ron


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## 1967 Tempest (Apr 2, 2015)

rwoods said:


> I can't judge distances in your pictures, but if the tree is anywhere close to hitting one of those power lines call the power company and let them know you have a "danger tree". They will be more than happy to put it on the ground if it is in fact within reach of their lines. Ron



The power company removed and gave me all of the trees that where in danger of touching the lines. If I was home when they fell them, I would have asked to drop the tree in question.

And as for the power lines, i know all of the Information on the lines. This tree is no where near hitting the lines. You could have asked instead of saying I didn't know. Thanks. 

I wanted to learn. No one even offered to come and look or nothing. 

Thank you.


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## rwoods (Apr 2, 2015)

1967 Tempest, you must have misread my post. Ron


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## Gologit (Apr 2, 2015)

1967 Tempest said:


> The power company removed and gave me all of the trees that where in danger of touching the lines. If I was home when they fell them, I would have asked to drop the tree in question.
> 
> And as for the power lines, i know all of the Information on the lines. This tree is no where near hitting the lines. You could have asked instead of saying I didn't know. Thanks.
> 
> ...



You got a lot of good advice here. If you don't like the advice or if you're not learning anything you need to examine your attitude. If you ask a question on this forum you'll get answers. They may not be the answers you want but they'll be honest and based on actual experience. You need to listen. It's all here for you if you want it. Or not...your choice entirely
I wish I'd had a resource like this when I was starting out.


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## HuskStihl (Apr 2, 2015)

rwoods said:


> 1967 Tempest, you must have misread my post. Ron


He's talkin to WBF.


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## Gologit (Apr 2, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> He's talkin to WBF.


 Makes sense.


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## rwoods (Apr 2, 2015)

HS, I figured that.

1967 Tempest, I am sure that if any of the above were near Sparta, NJ they would be happy to come by and look. But they're not. BTW I checked out your ride. Pretty sweet. My older brother had a 66 Lemans with a transplanted 421. It was hot in the day - pulled the front wheels off the ground in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Ate a bunch of 12 bolt rears.

Ron


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## slowp (Apr 2, 2015)

Send some of the fallers on here plane tickets and pay for the motel rooms. They might be more inclined to travel from the west coast to help you then. Or Wisconsin.
Oh, and meals. Don't forget to pay for that too.


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 2, 2015)

1967 Tempest said:


> The power company removed and gave me all of the trees that where in danger of touching the lines. If I was home when they fell them, I would have asked to drop the tree in question.
> 
> And as for the power lines, i know all of the Information on the lines. This tree is no where near hitting the lines. You could have asked instead of saying I didn't know. Thanks.
> 
> ...


tempest, i may be the closest but still pretty far away........i don't think any one was being smart here, you got the best advice we could give you from a snap shot.


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 2, 2015)

Gologit said:


> You got a lot of good advice here. If you don't like the advice or if you're not learning anything you need to examine your attitude. If you ask a question on this forum you'll get answers. They may not be the answers you want but they'll be honest and based on actual experience. You need to listen. It's all here for you if you want it. Or not...your choice entirely
> I wish I'd had a resource like this when I was starting out.


me too...............im lucky i lived thru all the mistakes.


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## BeatCJ (Apr 3, 2015)

If it were me, and my tree.

First, I would call the power company. They can either take off the two limbs closest to the lines, or the whole tree. Eventually, the tree will get the lines. After I knew what they would do, then I would deal with the tree. I've done CPR on someone that fell a tree into the powerlines.


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## bitzer (Apr 3, 2015)

Definetly not a beech. Could be a soft maple. That tree is not going to chair unless you really screw it up. Backcut it first about eye level. Pound a wedge in. Face it. Pound til she goes. Thats what I would do. No boring or shaving a face in it. Put a good face in it and normal backcut. Otherwise cut it with the lean. Same height though. Why does it have to go opposite the lean?


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## Westboastfaller (Apr 13, 2015)

1967 Tempest said:


> The power company removed and gave me all of the trees that where in danger of touching the lines. If I was home when they fell them, I would have asked to drop the tree in question.
> 
> And as for the power lines, i know all of the Information on the lines. This tree is no where near hitting the lines. You could have asked instead of saying I didn't know. Thanks.
> 
> ...



Your are still been ambiguous?
"The tree is no where near hitting the lines". ?????
You said "they felled all trees that were in danger or touching the line. In my experience its usually a prescription of 10 to 18ft on a '12kv to 60kv'line. So just because they didn't trim it,it doesn't mean if you fired that tree straight at that line would it hit? Or come within Limits of aprapproach (LOA) I'm saying.

My questions were legitimate. do you know how many KVs? Do you know the LOA? And if you cut a tree within limits of approach and it was heading for the conductors then would you know what to do? How to exit? What do you usually do? hop? Shuffle?and how far would you need to get to saftey?
Or would you stand there with your feet together? or apart is mabye better?
Guess you know it all, hope you don't blow your arm off or your dlck off like what happend to a guy up here.
We haven't even got to the falling part yet.
All I said is "Oh so you don't know"? I would bet 6 months wages you don't know that stuff . A little bit of satire & you cant take it. There is no dying in timber falling. Oh no thats not true there's plenty of dying. There's no crying in Timber falling! So you could have got a little more knowledge. You want to go and do the most dangerous job in north American with little experience. Your dealing with a danger tree, powerline or not, anyway, which gets me exited and I inquire about the powerlines and you get pissy.
Well I get pissy when a guy figures he should be able to do my job because he's ran a saw for a long time. (Not to say you have)Ive been alive a while to but it doesn't make me a **** star. If a guy ever smarted me off I was trying to show..well I wouldn't be showing him anymore. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one that feels that way.
I am a **** star though...lol
Look I would have been happy to do it for you if I was there free of charge.
Don't mind me, I'm harmless. I have fell some big unstable wood on remote live wire heli portable , And I've not only broke the insulators droping the conductors, I had about a couple of polls leaning good.
Mind was not on task,I shouldn't have been there with the things that just came about Im my live. I got fired from BC Hydro got suspended from the CUA and fired from my company all in 2 hours and made one big boom.

I remember It been about 11:00 am in November 2002 in Prince Rupert BC. Close to SE Alaska. The frost had just melted and everything was dripping wet. It was still foggy which makes a good chance to arc before contact with the line.
To top it off I cut myself into a potential grave as its was 100ft widening per side and I only had the front strip left which allows a buffer acting as a saftey net from tree hitting the line but I was digging my own grave
As my escape looked like a bomb went off. It wasn't Merch or salvage sadly enough(too political) as its some of the most beautiful wood. very old Yellow cedar and white wood it was a wet bog.
I discussed it with the CUA and decided we would rope the ones left as they were sketchy, another mistake As we planed the work but I didn't work the plan.I'm boasting now..lol Anyways so that was a triple fase 25 kv line (25,000 volts) the way electricity works is if you have your legs apart you become the conductor so up to 75 kv I believe you would need to be 33ft from that stump. Hop or shuffle but never seperating your feet. Well that wasn't an option so as soon as that tree slowly started to go directly for the line I
Ran like a grizzly bear over that trap,took a quick look back and estimated the time I had left to run before I needed to stop with my feet together. The last was a huge jump and landed with my feet together in a big hole with wood up to my neck then watched the fireworks. I didn't make the best decisions with the knowledge I had but just think if I didn't know what to do in that case?...at least you know this stuff, thats good.


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## Spotted Owl (Apr 13, 2015)

Westboastfaller said:


> Your are still been ambiguous?
> "The tree is no where near hitting the lines?"
> You said "they felled all trees that were in danger or touching the line. In my experience its usually a prescription of 10 to 18ft on a '12kv to 60kv'line. So just because they didn't trim it,it doesn't mean if you fired that tree straight at that line would it hit? Or come within Limits of aprapproach (LOA) I'm saying.
> 
> ...



No more need be said to this than. Wow. 



Owl


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## bitzer (Apr 14, 2015)

Too bad the op will never come back to read it.


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## Whitespider (Apr 17, 2015)

Spotted Owl said:


> _*No more need be said to this than.*_


I work for beer??

*I'VE MOVED HERE*


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## Bow Saw Man (Sep 15, 2019)

Thanks for this, gang. I watched the Husqvarna videos on how to fell a tree, and felt pretty confident. Then I read this and realized I could get myself in real trouble. What I did, and would advise anyone with rot in the trunk to do, is get an extension ladder, and bring the thing down piece by piece. It's a lot more work, but by the time you find out if the trunk is going to cut properly, it can't hit any nearby objects of value. 

We approached each cut with care and planning, and brought down a Norwegian Maple that was midway between the power lines and the house without any drama. I should've taken pictures


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## northmanlogging (Sep 15, 2019)

youtube extension ladders and chainsaws


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## northmanlogging (Sep 15, 2019)

YouTube extension laders and chainsaws


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## catbuster (Sep 16, 2019)

Extension ladders & chainsaws are not a good combination. Right up there with drinking a fifth of Jameson in an hour and then going for a drive in your Kenworth. 

Firefighters won’t even do it. That should tell you something.


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## RandyMac (Sep 16, 2019)

I love rotten trees


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## madhatte (Sep 16, 2019)

catbuster said:


> Firefighters won’t even do it. That should tell you something.



I concur


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## Bow Saw Man (Sep 16, 2019)

Well, it's a good thing everything turned out. If it's any better, they were electric chainsaws, we took our time. 

I was wondering what the Darwin Awards truck was doing filming the whole thing


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## madhatte (Sep 16, 2019)

Problem with a ladder is you're married to a stem that you expect to fail. Even if it doesn't fail, you're married to it if it moves unexpectedly. If you can't climb it and rope off to something else that you trust, you should find a way to do it either from above (i.e. a bucket truck) or below (i.e. cut it from the ground). Ladders in trees are pretty much only OK if you're picking apples.


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