# Log skidding winch DIY



## dave_dj1 (Sep 30, 2017)

I am starting this build thread in hopes of having all the info in one place. 
I want a skidding winch for my old Ford tractor, I have access to some trees that were cut and left for a wildlife clearing.
My goal is to build this with "off the shelf" parts. I will list what parts I am using , where I got them and how much they cost. I am hoping to build this without much more than basic tools. I understand that a lot of us don't have access to a lathe or a mill or even a plasma cutter but most either have a torch set or know someone who could torch something out for them. I would like the winch itself to be of a modular system so it can be taken off the rack when not needed.
This project will progress fairly slowly so hang in there. 
A while ago I bought this old Ford 3000, she ain't pretty but she is tight and runs great. 1965 Ford 3000 3 cylinder gas with select-o-speed transmission, 2 reverse gears and 10 forward with a front end loader that is in great shape. The poor thing is butt ugly as it has been painted no less than 7 times! The first thing I built for it was a carry all of sorts, it's more of a multi purpose thing, I have forks that go on it, a receiver hitch and some hooks welded on. I had planned to use it by itself to skid the logs but after searching the internet for pictures of logging winches I decided I could build one. The winch will be integrated into the carry all.
I would like to thank dancan and agvg for their help and inspiration.
Here is the carry all:









A few parts and pictures of what I am doing:
I started with these dental chair bases that we were scrapping out of a closed dental office, I kept them from a few years ago..lol They are 3/8" thick








I made a device to hold the plasma torch








ends of winch drum
circles are 12" diameter




this will be the locking wheel(one end of drum)




basic sketch of the idea




clutch disc will be sourced from Rock auto from a 1992 Suzuki Samuri (7 1/2" diameter) #99629D $17.45
You could use most any clutch disc that is under 12" diameter. This will be bolted to the sprocket.
center of drum
2 1/2" x .250 wall DOM tubing about 8" long, can be sourced locally or on line
weld in type x hub from surplus center 2" OD, 1.25" ID part# 1-2343 $5.65 (2)
roller bearing McMaster Carr 1" ID, 1.25 OD #5905K127 $11.69 (2)
I have a 1" chrome shaft from a scrapped hydraulic cylinder, you could use a 1" shaft sourced online




I am going to use #50 roller chain, a 12 tooth drive sprocket and a 60 tooth driven sprocket both sourced from Surplus Center
60 tooth sprocket * 1-1980-60 $39.95*
12 tooth sprocket *1-2124-12-E $5.85*
#50 roller chain *1-1163-50 $18.95*
More to follow as I get it going


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## 711ac (Oct 1, 2017)

...dental chairs, I love it!
Subscribed


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 1, 2017)

Today I drilled the 2 1/2" holes in the two plates. I used a Rigid holesaw and some oil, I was surprised at how easily they went. Now I need to find time to get to the metal store and get a piece of the DOM and order up some other parts. I wasn't feeling all that ambitious today so this is all I got accomplished.


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## dancan (Oct 1, 2017)

Looking good !
The ramps/notches for the brake pawl are notched at a greater angle on my Iglands , more of a checkmark shape .


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 1, 2017)

I was worried about releasing the brake if they were too steep, I can grind them down some, thanks.
They are actually more acute than the picture shows. I'll take a better picture.


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## dancan (Oct 1, 2017)

You don't have to worry about release , if the winch can't pull to release , just back the tractor .
It's not been an issue so far .


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## mountainguyed67 (Oct 1, 2017)

Cute little tractor.....


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## farmer steve (Oct 2, 2017)

mountainguyed67 said:


> Cute little tractor.....


'
Dave,select-o-speed? no clutch just inching pedal right? should be a nice woods tractor with the lower gears for hauling logs.


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## GVS (Oct 2, 2017)

farmer steve said:


> '
> Dave,select-o-speed? no clutch just inching pedal right? should be a nice woods tractor with the lower gears for hauling logs.


Select-O-Speed:10 fwd gears,2 reverse,Inching pedal(no clutch),independant PTO.Wonderful X/Mis. if adjusted properly and all the gears work.Early models had no compression braking in certain gears(free wheeling).Replacement parts are VERY hard to come by and finding a competent mechanic to work on one gets more difficult with passing time.Some really sharp mech's.are making replacement parts.Check out "yesterdays tractors.com" for much more info on them.


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## farmer steve (Oct 2, 2017)

GVS said:


> Select-O-Speed:10 fwd gears,2 reverse,Inching pedal(no clutch),independant PTO.Wonderful X/Mis. if adjusted properly and all the gears work.Early models had no compression braking in certain gears(free wheeling).Replacement parts are VERY hard to come by and finding a competent mechanic to work on one gets more difficult with passing time.Some really sharp mech's.are making replacement parts.Check out "yesterdays tractors.com" for much more info on them.


we had a ford 901 with the SOS. with a mounted 2 row corn picker. the free wheeling you mention were in certain gears highlighted on the shifter.


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## morewood (Oct 2, 2017)

dave_dj1 said:


> I was worried about releasing the brake if they were too steep, I can grind them down some, thanks.
> They are actually more acute than the picture shows. I'll take a better picture.



I agree with dan about the engagement notches on the spool. On the Igland, put the pawl to release, bump the clutch to allow the pawl room to release, done. You can make it engage as deeply as needed that way.

Shea


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 2, 2017)

I did read up on the SOS and yes there are 3 separate gears where it free wheels, ( i wanna say 3,6 &9) it says stay off of long down hills in those gears! 
Yes, the first 4 or 5 gears are super low, I'm not thrilled with the two reverse gears however, they seem a bit high.
Yes it's called an inching pedal. 
I have been to yesterdays tractor to do some research. I bought some parts there for my BIL's Massey that i just fixed. thanks.
I had never even heard of such a transmission until I bought this one. I'm no farmer.
I figure I'll try it, if it doesn't work to my expectations I will sell it and buy a 4x4 maybe less HP, the Ford 3000 is 47 hp, about 39 at the PTO. The loader is nice and tight.
Here's how I built the brake wheel, I drilled 1/2 holes, then cut the steel out. Like I said they are steeper and sharper than they look, I will grind them more into a check mark though, don't want to have the brake not work.


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## farmer steve (Oct 2, 2017)

dave_dj1 said:


> I did read up on the SOS and yes there are 3 separate gears where it free wheels, ( i wanna say 3,6 &9) it says stay off of long down hills in those gears!
> Yes, the first 4 or 5 gears are super low, I'm not thrilled with the two reverse gears however, they seem a bit high.
> Yes it's called an inching pedal.
> I have been to yesterdays tractor to do some research. I bought some parts there for my BIL's Massey that i just fixed. thanks.
> ...


3,6,9 sounds about right Dave. i'm trying to remember back 50 years. there is an old Ford dealer near me that has some old parts. if you need something i can check.


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## kevin j (Oct 3, 2017)

We had a 941 SOS, small diesel. Lot of trouble, but went something like 24 mph in high. I mowed and cultivated a lot of acres with that. 

What is the Samurai clutch disc being used for? as a brake? being directly on the drum shaft, the torque capacity will be pretty low. Can you get it to the motor shaft? or is this PTO driven?


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 3, 2017)

kevin j said:


> We had a 941 SOS, small diesel. Lot of trouble, but went something like 24 mph in high. I mowed and cultivated a lot of acres with that.
> 
> What is the Samurai clutch disc being used for? as a brake? being directly on the drum shaft, the torque capacity will be pretty low. Can you get it to the motor shaft? or is this PTO driven?



The Zuke clutch will be used to engage the drum to the sprocket IE: the sprocket will be turning when the PTO is on, then via a set of cams and a lever the drum will be forced over against the clutch disc thereby turning the drum and pulling the line in. I had considered using brake pads from something like a side by side or even a street bike, maybe 5 or 6 of them hooked to the sprocket but then I had the clutch idea. The holding brake are the notches, a lever will drop into one to hold the drum from backing up.


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 3, 2017)

farmer steve said:


> 3,6,9 sounds about right Dave. i'm trying to remember back 50 years. there is an old Ford dealer near me that has some old parts. if you need something i can check.


Good to know farmer steve, I will certainly keep that in mind. One nice thing is the tractor came with a brand new Ford manual, it's actually 4 books in a big ring binder. I just haven't taken the time to look through it yet.  One day this winter I will, or when I need to...lol


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## kevin j (Oct 4, 2017)

dave_dj1 said:


> The Zuke clutch will be used to engage the drum to the sprocket
> 
> 
> Unsolicited advice, but I don't think your clutch will transmit anywhere enough torque to do what you want.
> ...


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## farmer steve (Oct 4, 2017)

funny how things pop up . 
Dave you'll need some blue paint when you get done with the winch.
https://york.craigslist.org/grd/d/ford-4000-select-speed/6315800516.html


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 4, 2017)

Kevin J, I appreciate your input. Have you looked at the Farmi winch? http://www.farmiwinch.com/products/farmi-winch-features-benefits/ They use a clutch exactly like I am wanting. Maybe I should just buy their clutch as it's available at a reasonable price. Perhaps there is something different in their material? I certainly don't want a big failure. I could use the clutch disc out or a 90's Camaro with a v8, would that change things? The only reason I chose the Zulke clutch was because of price. I can go all the way up to a 11.5" disc. Yes I have the tools and the know how to get it all done. I enjoy doing stuff like this, yes I could buy one but where is the fun and savings in that? I'm just a redneck engineer...lol. Hydraulics are out of the question right now, I'm not opposed the them per se but it would cost me a lot more money. Now if I stumbled onto a hydraulic donor (old splitter or something) then maybe. 

Farmersteve, I have been picking away at my tractors many coats of paint with plans of giving her a proper paint job. I want to take the loader off so I can get the inside of the arms cleaned up properly.
From what I can tell the loader arms were originally white, my buddy who is a die hard Ford man says I should paint them blue, really makes no difference to me. I think the rims will be white with blue centers, I don't have any fenders but I think when I do they will be white too. Thanks for the input


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 4, 2017)

kevin j
I just found this info page and will read it later after work. 
http://www.manticclutch.com/clamp_v_torque


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## kevin j (Oct 4, 2017)

I should clarify my late night post above.
-I am not at all saying it won't work. Farmi and Wallenstein and others are cadillac machines with thousands of units and years of service.

-I realize clutches are much more torque capacity than the pure torque of the sammy engine. Thermal issues usually are the limiting factor, so a given clutch will be capable or much more actual slip torque than what I said above. It was just illustrating order of magnitude, that there needs to be a very significant clamping force from the ramps/cams that engage it. Also, the torque capacity increases directly with the increasing diameter, so I would go with the largest possible disc that would fit your drum flanges. Area of contact is not so important, not much increase in torque capacity but does increase the life because there is more friction material to wear.

-I'd go with a couple hundred dollar hydraulic motor mainly because I don't have lathe capability for the shaft and center parts, but could do all the other fabrication.
One I built many years with hydr motor ago worked well but only got used a few times over several years just because the need was not there.

-The farmi clutch design has a huge advantage of being able to operate it from the ground, not from tractor seat. For logging, that would be almost essential for one person using it many times a day.

-So, go for it. Use the largest possible clutch disc, or rivet the material directly to the drum like farmi does. There are not many clutch/brake shops around any more that have the bulk material.

And, pics with progress of course.


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## Ted Jenkins (Oct 4, 2017)

Some very good suggestions and engineering has come forward. However for most part already been there done that. To start with your structure is not going to cut it. Not even close unless you are going to be moving logs under a foot. The first thing is you need a A frame mounting to the back of the tractor. Heavy gauge 2 X 2 square tubing maybe. Very easy to fabricate. They are often mounted to the rear axles with some U bolts. If you can not find them make them at least two per side start with 1/2 '' or 3/4'' better. A high quality snatch block needs to be mounted at the top with at least 20,000 lbs capacity with no scrimping here. They can be fabricated in house with misc. junk yard stuff. It needs to have a shield around most of it so that the cable can not come off no matter what. Then the A frame needs to be braced which can be a pain because it could interfere with getting on and off the tractor so massive gussets might be a solution. BTW hydro units are easy to come up with both new and used. The clutch idea will not cut it either. Your set up will experience 10,000 lbs likely every time you get on your ride. A disk brake off of a motorcycle or car will be all you need for braking. To engage a belt or two will be the easiest to set up. Just a variable idle pulley will engage your power source. A electric air conditioner clutch times two would meet the torque requirements at the power source not the final drive. If you want to build your own winch which is not too tough but will have some fringe benefits in that you might want 200 feet of cable. Get some heavy wall tubing about 6'' diam. cut two end plates with 1 1/2'' holes stick your 1 1/2'' rod through those and weld it up for your drum. It does not have to be perfect because it will turn a hand full of RPMs. If you want to use sprockets that will work with some fabrication. Most skid steer tractors at least the order ones have sprockets that would meet your needs or use a 3/4t or larger rear end will work. I have seen the haft shafts used as a base for the spool. Remember these things turn slow so perfect precision is not needed. About 100 to 200 to one ratio will be in order depending on your power source not knowing any thing about your PTO capacity. When I use a skid steer tractor with a completely independent winch. I winch up to a landing then move the logs around with my Bobcat.


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 4, 2017)

Ted Jenkins said:


> Some very good suggestions and engineering has come forward. However for most part already been there done that. To start with your structure is not going to cut it. Not even close unless you are going to be moving logs under a foot. The first thing is you need a A frame mounting to the back of the tractor. Heavy gauge 2 X 2 square tubing maybe. Very easy to fabricate. They are often mounted to the rear axles with some U bolts. If you can not find them make them at least two per side start with 1/2 '' or 3/4'' better. A high quality snatch block needs to be mounted at the top with at least 20,000 lbs capacity with no scrimping here. They can be fabricated in house with misc. junk yard stuff. It needs to have a shield around most of it so that the cable can not come off no matter what. Then the A frame needs to be braced which can be a pain because it could interfere with getting on and off the tractor so massive gussets might be a solution. BTW hydro units are easy to come up with both new and used. The clutch idea will not cut it either. Your set up will experience 10,000 lbs likely every time you get on your ride. A disk brake off of a motorcycle or car will be all you need for braking. To engage a belt or two will be the easiest to set up. Just a variable idle pulley will engage your power source. A electric air conditioner clutch times two would meet the torque requirements at the power source not the final drive. If you want to build your own winch which is not too tough but will have some fringe benefits in that you might want 200 feet of cable. Get some heavy wall tubing about 6'' diam. cut two end plates with 1 1/2'' holes stick your 1 1/2'' rod through those and weld it up for your drum. It does not have to be perfect because it will turn a hand full of RPMs. If you want to use sprockets that will work with some fabrication. Most skid steer tractors at least the order ones have sprockets that would meet your needs or use a 3/4t or larger rear end will work. I have seen the haft shafts used as a base for the spool. Remember these things turn slow so perfect precision is not needed. About 100 to 200 to one ratio will be in order depending on your power source not knowing any thing about your PTO capacity. When I use a skid steer tractor with a completely independent winch. I winch up to a landing then move the logs around with my Bobcat.



Ted, while I appreciate your input, I am confident that my base frame will be fine. I will however be adding some more material, you'll see as it progresses. I am only doing firewood for myself, not as a business.
I used a friends Igland on his Ford tractor last year and it worked great. I don't even have to winch a whole tree, i can cut them in half and in fact do just that from time to time. In my design there won't be any real machining, I am going to do this with off the shelf parts so that others can duplicate it fairly easily. The name brands make them all the way down to 3500 lbs and up to 16,000lbs
.
Kevin, point taken, I will go with the clutch disc from the Camaro then or even a Jeep one. I was just going for cheap...lol
Now that I understand a little more about how it will work I will definitely go bigger.


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 4, 2017)

I found this 1999 Ford Ranger clutch, off a 4.0
10" with 1" center
Rockauto M-Pact 381116 $34.89


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## dancan (Oct 4, 2017)

the clutch on my 180 is basically a round disc with pockets that you stake in what looks like a small brake pad , 3 of them I think .


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 6, 2017)

OK so I stopped at a machinist a town over a direction of which I seldom go but knew of him, I was looking for the elusive 2.5" x .250" wall DOM tube (which he didn't have). He did have a great suggestion however, take a piece of 2.5" diameter x 8" long solid round bar and drill a 1 1/16" through it then bore the two ends to 1 1/4" by the depth of the bearing, to accept the needle bearings and machine in an internal c clip groove. He said the labor would be $65 bucks and the piece around $10. I think I will take this route, it will save me two welds on the ends of the tube welding in the two type x weld in hubs which would cost me $15 each plus tax and freight from SC. Overall it will give me a much heaver wall drum center and should eliminate the worry of the hubs shrinking after welding. 
He made it sound so easy! I guess it is if that's your thing, I have never dealt with machine work to an accurate level  I'm glad I stopped at his shop. I'm going to have do a 4" piece the same way for the drive sprocket axle shaft. Stay tuned, I've got to get back to him with the bearing specs.


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 6, 2017)

Which has more grip, a brake pad or a clutch disc? For my intended purpose? I was originally thinking about using about 5 or 6 brake discs bolted to the sprocket. This may be a viable option.


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## dancan (Oct 6, 2017)

I dunno nuthin but if you look at any Scandi winch ipl you'll see that they're pretty basic but I can tell you from experience that they work .


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 21, 2017)

Small update. I ended up having a local machinist take a piece of 2.5" solid round bar 8 3/8" long and run a 1 1/8" hole through it then bore it to 1.25" diameter in about 1" on each end to accept the bearings. It was almost a wash money wise to pay him than to buy the DOM , the type x hub adapters and weld it all together then machine in a couple of internal snap ring grooves. It's all done in one strong package now and saved me two welds.

















built a makeshift positioner out of some bearings I had for another project 
















Stay tuned


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 24, 2017)

Got my bearings from mcMaster Carr today, talk about quick service, I ordered them online Sunday evening


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 28, 2017)

I had a little shop time today 
Got the PTO adapter welded to the 1" shaft for the drive sprocket, I had to grind down the 1" shaft where the splines were on the adapter, got it close and drove it home then welded it.




I also go the 14 tooth drive sprocket welded to the hub




Took a new snatch block from TSC and cut it off to make my top sheave and to have it pivot




I have some 7/8 solid bar that goes inside the pipe for a nice fit and swivel. I don't know what the metal on that snatch block is but it welded like crap! Plus I needed a new liner for the welder, finally put it on.




This is the drive sprocket and hub just so I have the part numbers documented








Any questions feel free to ask.


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 30, 2017)

I ordered some R16-2RS bearings from McMaster Carr last night for the drive sprocket shaft and for the driven sprocket. 
I got a little bit done today.
I measured the ID of the bought type X hubs which was listed as 1 1/4", they were close. I checked my drum center that I had milled and it was a hair tight so I honed them out just a little, the bearings drove in nicely




I am putting up a picture of the way I intended to do the drum center so that if anyone wants to do it that way instead of having a piece milled it will be here as a reference for everybody. 
This piece of 2 1/5" x .250 wall (2" ID) DOM is 5" long, you can make it whatever you like, the two type X hubs have 2" shoulders to fit into the DOM and have 1 1/4" centers to accept the needle bearings. 




I got the top sheave mostly ready, it has to keep the cable on in all conditions so I did it similar to some store bought units. I will cut the nipple back to about a 1/2".




I cut a 3/4" piece of the 2 1/2" DOM and lined it up on the big sprocket hole, I am going to have two of the R16-2RS bearings in it, the sprocket is 3/8" thick and each bearing is 1/2".








The drive end will have a bearing in each end of the DOM, that shaft is all set waiting on the bearings.




I am contemplating just building a new frame and keep the one I have as a carry all type thing. I think it may be a little on the light side for pulling trees. Time and money will decide. I have some heavy wall 3/16" 1 1/2" x 3" rectangular tubing that I was going to use for my ROPS so I may use that for the frame and get some more material for the ROPS.


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 31, 2017)

Got my bearings from McMaster Carr (love that store, always quick shipping)
I got the bearings all in, ground the groove for the key in the shaft and got the drive shaft all assembled. I think the large sprocket is going to be pretty stout. 
I am now thinking I may just order the same clutch disc that the Farmi winch uses that way at least I know it's a known set up. I'll look up the cost tonight, If my memory serves me right i don't think it was much more than a Camaro clutch disc. 








Cut the nipple off for the cable.




I picked up the 11 gauge sheets today for my dump trailer so tomorrow I will be putting that back together



Damn rust belt!


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## dave_dj1 (Nov 7, 2017)

Small update, my steel got delayed but should be here tomorrow. I ordered the last of the pieces (I think) I ordered a clutch disc from RokAuto for a 94 Dodge truck, 1500, 318 v8, it's 26 bucks and then I ordered an idler sprocket for the back side of the chain (I was debating using one or not) it was $8.08 from The Big Bearing Store




Once I get my 2x6x3/16 tube I will go to town on it. I was in town today and saw a buddies winch, I took some closeups of the brake, the mount and took some overall measurements. His drum is only about 5.5" wide but I think I am going to be OK with 8" drum. I was surprised to see how sharp of an angle the PTO shaft was with the winch in the air, I assume you aren't running it when the winch is lifted? I will have to remember not to. Oh that reminds me, I will have to buy a PTO shaft as I don't have one...lol


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## morewood (Nov 8, 2017)

You are dead on about the angle when picked up. I cringe at the idea of it binding up if I had it picked up and had weight on it. Put it on the ground and you alleviate two issues. No bad angle on the pto and no leverage used against you when pulling.

Shea


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## Sawyer Rob (Nov 8, 2017)

The pto does NOT come out in the same place on the different models of winches, and they are used on many "different tractors" that have THEIR pto shafts coming out at different heights too...

SO, YOUR tractor may have a straighter drive line with that particular winch in the ground than it will on some another tractor...

You can't "generalize" on when the drive line will be straightest, in the ground or raised for all tractors.

SR


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## dave_dj1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Picked up two 4' pieces of 2x6x3/16 tube today




Left over 1/8 from my dump trailer floor project




My press brake I cobbled together a few years ago, the uprights are from an old camper frame. It has bent anything I have ever asked of it including some 3/8 x 6 flat bar that I made my 4 and 6 ways out of




The resulting piece, not perfect but it's pretty good.




















I'll be back at it tomorrow. Stay tuned


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## dave_dj1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Finally feel like I got something accomplished today!
Picked up where I left off yesterday. Got the shaft in, everything set in place. Put in the uprights to hold the cross piece with the adjuster, put a new handle on the cam, i decided not to use the center cam I made earlier, I think two pieces will be fine. Cut the center out of the clutch, put the lower mounts on, put the mount for the sheave on top. It was nice to see the drum and everything it it's place for the first time



Like a new father




Broom lives matter 

















Access to the bolt that will hold the cross piece with the adjuster on




Top sheave mount









I still have to drill out some rivets and get some longer ones to hold the clutch on to the sprocket. Or should I bolt it on with some 1/4" flatheads?


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## Alu (Nov 20, 2017)

This looks fun, keep on the Good work !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## dave_dj1 (Nov 29, 2017)

Small update:
Got an old 7.5' Fisher plow from a buddy, I cut out what I needed for my blade.
I got it tacked on after work today. 
I don't have a lot of pictures as Imgur was acting up yesterday. I did get the chain cut to length, still have to install the idler pulley.
I got the handle sort of figured out for the clutch, I had it all mocked up, I think I can start to paint parts of it












Stay tuned, more coming soon


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## dave_dj1 (Nov 30, 2017)




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## dave_dj1 (Dec 5, 2017)

It's bolted together for a test once I get a PTO shaft.


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## 93green12v (Dec 24, 2017)

Wow you made that look easy. It'll be awesome to see it in action!


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## dave_dj1 (Dec 27, 2017)

Thanks, it wasn't too bad. 
I'm waiting on finding some extra cash for the pto shaft and to top things off my tractor seems to be a fair weather tractor only! I do have a buddy with a new Kubota that is wanting to fetch some wood so we may have to try it out on his tractor.


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## 93green12v (Dec 27, 2017)

It's single digits hear so I don't blame your tractor for not wanting to go out in this lol. I may make one like this if it works pretty good for you. I'm not much of a fabricator but can take some ideas or pictures and go from there.


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## dancan (Jan 15, 2018)

Any updates ?


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## dave_dj1 (Jan 16, 2018)

The only update is I finally ordered the PTO shaft I needed 
I sold my old Ford tractor  or  depending on the day ...lol
I got an email yesterday that the shaft has shipped.
We are going to install it on my buddy's Kubota and give it a try. I'm sure it will need some modifications, or not 
I will keep you posted and get a video


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## cantoo (Jan 16, 2018)

Dave, I very seldom buy PTO shafts new. I buy old pull type snow blowers, broken silage blowers, mowers etc for scrap steel price and rob the PTO's and the 3 PTH mounts off them. Far cheaper than buying or building them especially if you have to buy the steel. I likely have 6 or 8 on my fence line just waiting for my lazy azz to do something with them. You can see part of my world famous (my wife's relatives in Holland think it's amazing) fence line in the back ground picture of my sawmill.


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## dave_dj1 (Jan 17, 2018)

Cantoo I have looked and asked everyone and even put a wanted ad on facebook looking for a used shaft. As it turns out a guy on another forum sent me a link to a place, I am getting a new shaft with the ends I need for 48.95 and 18 shipping.
My buddy is more excited than I am to try it out...lol
Plus he needs some wood.


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## dave_dj1 (Jan 20, 2018)

Well the shaft arrived on Thursday, between working, plowing and the cold I haven't had time to do anything with it. Depending on what happens after Tuesday weather wise I should have some time to play with it.
It looks to be a well made piece for what little it costs.


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## dancan (Feb 25, 2018)

Any updates?


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## dave_dj1 (Feb 26, 2018)

No updates as of yet, we are waiting for the roads to be decent (salt & slush free) for my buddy to bring his tractor over so we can try it. I'm in the market for a used 4wd tractor so I may have one of my own before we can get his here. I will update as soon as I can


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## Marshy (Feb 26, 2018)

Awesome build. I'm making plans to build one also but I don't plan to actually construct the winch. My plan is to build a log boom with a winch. My tractor is only 2700lbs so it doesn't have to be as stout as you have. Here is a pto driven winch I found locally off an older land rover or something. 



This is what I'm aiming to build but it will have a blade like yours.


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## dave_dj1 (Feb 26, 2018)

That should be a cool build! Be cautious of the PTO winch not having a reverse, if you get it snagged and can't back the tractor up I was told it was not good! That is part of the reason I didn't go that route.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 15, 2018)

I have a small update, the winch is mounted to the tractor! I have to buy a new top link as the hydraulic one on there the hoses get in the way when the winch is all the way up. I got the PTO shaft cut down but I think I need to cut about an inch more off each end, it's almost touching when the winch is down.
I was hoping to get the cable spooled today but had some business to take care of. Perhaps tomorrow I will get the cable spooled. Hang in there!


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2018)

I got the cable spooled on it this morning. The first thing I noticed is I should have made the drum about 2-3 inches narrower because of the way the cable comes down to the middle of it. I had to use a hammer head to push the cable over towards the back, I'm not sure it will rewind on it's own that way or not. My gut feeling is it's going to become a birds nest sooner than later




I did spool the cable on under some tension, I ran the cable lengthwise through some pieces of 2x12 that I pinched the cable in, seemed to work well. 
I hooked the cable to the remnants of the old plow I cut up and pulled it out of the frozen tundra so I can at least say it does work after I adjusted the clutch. I'm guessing eventually the end of the drum will be smooth from use, right now it has some paint on it and some rust on it. And now on to the pictures


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## Jakers (Mar 16, 2018)

Awesome. Can't wait to see some action shots in the woods, maybe even a vidoe... 

I miss the old green chainsaw smiley guy. This one looks so angry but it's the only saw smiley we have so...


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## Marshy (Mar 17, 2018)

Very nice. 
This followed me home yesterday.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 17, 2018)

Marshy said:


> Very nice.
> This followed me home yesterday.
> View attachment 639971


What's the plan?


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## Marshy (Mar 17, 2018)

Build something like the yellow one above that I posted but add a blade like yours to lower on the ground. The winch will be PTO driven directly to the tractor PTO. That's it in a nut shell.


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## hayboy (Mar 17, 2018)

That come from military truck? I bought one just like new about 30 yrs ago. Power in and power out,if the cable is tight the control lever is locked in place, I broke mine before I found how everything was going to work.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 17, 2018)

First pull is in the books! 

I am needing some advice though.
I have two issuues, one is the clutch, I can engage it fine but it was slipping, I know the video doesn't really show it but that was a piece of green Oak about 14" across and about 12' long, HEAVY. I could pull it with no problem as long as nothing got it snagged. Tractor at just above idle.
The other issue is I have the lever adjusted tight enough so there is no free wheeling of the spool so when I am dragging out cable I am spinning the PTO shaft and sprocket as well, not sure how I'm going to overcome that issue. I am only using a two part ramp, I have a 3 part built but I thought I could get away with using just two outer pieces.





This is the three parts, I left the center out but I can put it back in if you think it will help. I think it will give me more travel so I should be able to get my free wheel back.
The other thing I am thinking is I need to "mill" the end of my spool as it was used steel that had some powder coat on it and some rust, I think a grinder and maybe a belt sander is in order there.
I'm open to suggestions. I would like to try it on some flat ground, I was a bit nervous as I was just at the edge of the road by my house. The Oak tree had fallen in the fall. 
Thanks


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## agvg (Mar 17, 2018)

How is the mechanism made? How do you engage it?

Sent fra min TA-1053 via Tapatalk


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 17, 2018)

agvg said:


> How is the mechanism made? How do you engage it?
> 
> Sent fra min TA-1053 via Tapatalk


This is the three part set up,




I left out the middle one when I built it thinking it would be OK, my instinct is I'm going to have to do the three parts.
Basically just a couple of wedge shaped washers I made, pull lever they ramp up and wedge the spool over against the clutch. One concern is the clutch disc, it may be too large of a diameter, it may grip better if I used a smaller diameter clutch disc like one off a Suzuki Samuri or the like.


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## agvg (Mar 18, 2018)

Do you have a pully system for the rope?

Sent fra min TA-1053 via Tapatalk


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 18, 2018)

I do have a pulley system for a rope, just haven't put it on yet. Leverage is not the problem, I can pull it hard enough, I think part of the problem is the distance it moves.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Mar 18, 2018)

The clutch is an automotive disc with pressure plate?


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 18, 2018)

ValleyFirewood said:


> The clutch is an automotive disc with pressure plate?


It's an automotive clutch , no pressure plate, it's bolted to the sprocket and the end of the spool acts as the flywheel so to speak.


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## agvg (Mar 18, 2018)

Have you copied an construction from a winch? Both mine uses balls or pins to make enough force and movement.

Sent fra min TA-1053 via Tapatalk


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 18, 2018)

agvg said:


> Have you copied an construction from a winch? Both mine uses balls or pins to make enough force and movement.
> 
> Sent fra min TA-1053 via Tapatalk


It's loosely based on a Farmi type winch. I don't have machine skills or tools so I have no way to make the exact engagement piece.
I am thinking of ordering a Farmi engagement lever and halves. Would you know the diameter of the shaft? I have a 1" shaft.


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## agvg (Mar 18, 2018)

The Farmi has a little different clutch, large pads witch I think is softer and gives more friction so you need less pressure and movement to engage, I would try to copy Fransgard or old Norse/Sandvik witch both uses a more thin, hard and car like clutch.
So the engagment mechanism from a Fransgard V3000 winch like mine would be a better choice, have manual and partslist I can send you if you want it.


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## agvg (Mar 18, 2018)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B04ogGbxLrG1ZVpFWlBzMGJReVk

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B04ogGbxLrG1VkFmRHZkdE1STTQ

You will find the manual in the link

Edit, wrong link


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 18, 2018)

agvg said:


> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B04ogGbxLrG1ZVpFWlBzMGJReVk
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B04ogGbxLrG1VkFmRHZkdE1STTQ
> 
> ...


thanks , I'll see if I can find a dealer around here.


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## Jakers (Mar 18, 2018)

another option would be simple brake pads so you aren't contacting so much surface area at a time. maybe even cut them in half to make the pressure applied be less spread out? the brake pad material would be more aggressive as well


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 18, 2018)

Jakers said:


> another option would be simple brake pads so you aren't contacting so much surface area at a time. maybe even cut them in half to make the pressure applied be less spread out? the brake pad material would be more aggressive as well



Thanks Jakers
That thought has crossed my mind but I couldn't find any information to substantiate it. I'm not opposed to adding brake pads if you think they will bite better. I can't wrap my head around less is more? I thought that having a large diameter clutch would be the best, I could be wrong.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 18, 2018)

Well I pulled the drum off today, cleaned the clutch disc with some denatured alcohol (it was dirty) and then took a flap disc to the drum end, it had paint and rust pits on it, I shined it up pretty nicely and then wiped it down with the denatured alcohol. I put it back together and am waiting for it's next test run. 

I did find one problem, the piece that is used to adjust the tension on the clutch ramp was binding on the shaft, 1" hole on 1" shaft and 1/4" material so I reamed the hole out and put a stop so the lever doesn't drop down to the left, I think it was actually starting to tighten up as it was going past center (if that makes sense) it gets moved to the right. I will probably install some linkage and the handle before it's next use just to be a little safer. Or at least some pulleys and some rope.


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## Jakers (Mar 18, 2018)

Larger diameter will give you more holding but more surface area will give you less. so If you have smaller brake pads with less surface area, your ramp system of engagement will have more holding power over a smaller area. the trade off is wearing out the drum faster. If you move the pads to the very outside edge of the drum, you will also have the ability to hold more due to decreasing the load felt on the pads by the center of the drum/spool. 

Hope that makes sense, I'm not a great teacher


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## Jakers (Mar 18, 2018)

this is the style of clutch disk I'm assuming you have now, solid and normal material






It would be better to switch to a high performance "button" style clutch or build your own using brake pads. these clutches usually are made using a ceramic/metallic compound that resists heat better and grips better but at the cost of eating up the flywheel faster


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## ChoppyChoppy (Mar 18, 2018)

Without a pressure plate I wouldn't figure the disc would have enough clamping force. There's several hundred lbs of clamp load on a plate. Is that ramped wedge going to exert that much force?


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 18, 2018)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Without a pressure plate I wouldn't figure the disc would have enough clamping force. There's several hundred lbs of clamp load on a plate. Is that ramped wedge going to exert that much force?


You are correct, I found between 600-800 lbs of force. Yes I believe the wedge can accomplish that given I am the force behind it and some mechanical advantage (lever).
I have just started researching high performance clutches. I was thinking maybe I could do the brake pad thing. I'm going to test it again after the cleaning and see how well or poorly it does 
Here's some food for thought, I have a set of rear remotes and could easily adapt a hydraulic cylinder to push or pull the lever.


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## dancan (Mar 18, 2018)

There's no pressure plate on my logging winches .


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## Jakers (Mar 18, 2018)

I think you're on the right track. Being that you have a lever and wedge design you should be able to apply more than enough force. A hydraulic cylinder could easily apply more force but would be slower to disengage and would also cause potential problems with warping or bending


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 19, 2018)

Ok, another update!
I pulled the last 14' piece of the tree in today, I set the tractor at about 1500 rpm's, it came in rather quickly




My tractor idles at about 800-900 rpm's
The Farmi and Fransgard both of which are commercially made units both have very similar set ups. The Farmi uses 6 pads and the drum is forced over into the sprocket, the Fransgard uses only 3 pads and also forces the drum over against the sprocket, the Norse is also a commercial unit, it is a little different in that it forces the sprocket over against the drum, it also uses just 3 pads.
I did some re work on the engagement mechanism today. I noticed that my wedge design was flawed in that as it turned to push, it also got loose at the other end (picture two wedges from a wheel of cheese and rotate one of them while keeping it level on one side). Then I had an epiphany, I need three wedges on the same diameter circle! While poking around TSC I spotted the steel halves of a Lovejoy connection, a light bulb went off! I bought two of them, took a cutting wheel and cut all the square tips into angles. One for the drum side and one for the tractor side I was limited to width at this point so I had to slice the parts on the band saw, that was a ***** trying to figure out how to hold them but I got it!
I haven't tried it yet, I'm hoping the angle isn't too steep but I should be able to force it with a longer handle? Or hydraulics
I did discover in doing this that the little thrust bearing I was using was destroyed, I think partially because the mechanism I was using was only pushing on one side and not equally. I removed it and greased up a 1" washer for the time being, I may need to get a bronze one of that size.
I suppose if this doesn't work I'll have to look into buying some Fransgard or Norse pads.
Here are some pics:
lovejoy jigged up to slice after it was cut on the angles:




different view:








and with it in place




So at least I even pressure around the thrust area , we will see
I forgot to add that now with this mod I have attained free spool ability




Last edited by davedj1; Today at 06:51 PM. Reason: to add some infor


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 23, 2018)

Got some paint on her today


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 27, 2018)

WELL DARN! I broke the winch today!




I loaded the tractor up and hauled it over to my buddies property to skid some trees for next years firewood. The first tree I hooked to was a 24' piece about 12" across at the butt, yanked it to the winch like a champ! I ran that one to the pile and came back for another larger Maple, I knew I couldn't haul the entire thing so I cut about 20' off the bottom which is about 20-21" across. I hooked it up, gave the lever a push and I heard a clunk, looked and didn't see anything too obvious so I gave it another push and heard a terrible clank,!
The Lovejoy connectors I made with the ramps the other day must be made from Chinese steel, the thing broke right in half




So I hauled it all home and parked the tractor in the garage. I'll pull the winch apart tomorrow and see if I can come up with a plan "C" or maybe back to plan "A"

Let's discuss the clutch for a bit. Can anyone confirm If I take the clutch off and cut every other pad off would it work any better? IE: grip more?
Or while I have it in the garage should I look for some brake pads from an ATV or something? 
Thanks,
Dave


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## dancan (Mar 27, 2018)

I can't remember if it was mentioned but have you read agvg's thread on his winch rebuild ?

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/my-logging-winch-repair-project.259403/


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## dancan (Mar 27, 2018)

Chit all to heck , some of the pics are gone


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 27, 2018)

dancan said:


> I can't remember if it was mentioned but have you read agvg's thread on his winch rebuild ?
> 
> https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/my-logging-winch-repair-project.259403/


Yes, I read it all before the pics went missing, he and I had exchanged some pm's and i did let him know that the pics are missing. It was a useful thread for me during my build for sure.


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## agvg (Mar 28, 2018)

dave_dj1 said:


> Yes, I read it all before the pics went missing, he and I had exchanged some pm's and i did let him know that the pics are missing. It was a useful thread for me during my build for sure.


Did forgot about the missing pics, must fix them.

Sent fra min TA-1053 via Tapatalk


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## agvg (Mar 29, 2018)

Link to pictures

https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/fY6U4n


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 29, 2018)

Well here's today's update.
Me and a buddy took the setup to the woodlot today for some testing




I feel the testing went well. One thing I cannot figure out is why I cannot get free wheel with the ramp set up. I have tried everything. I have started making a set of ramps on a piece of 3.5" solid bar that I had. The poor little HF bandsaw cut it like a big girl. Each slice is 5/8" thick. The hardest part so far has been to drill the 1" hole, I got them done but the chuck wobbles so bad on my Rigid drill press that I don't think they are perfectly round!
With the last set up with the ramps made from the Lovejoy connectors I had good free wheel of the drum. Today was a PIA having to pull the cable while not only the drum in turning but so is the clutch, chain and PTO shaft ugh!
I think the winch did OK other than that.
Here are a couple pics and a link to a video I made on Youtube.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 30, 2018)

Update for today.
I tore the whole thing apart, found (which I had a suspicion) the shaft was not perfectly square to the front if that makes sense, the rear support (one facing tractor) had to be moved up and over a tad. I hogged the holes out with the plasma cutter and then once I got it all where I wanted it I drilled some locating holes in the pieces so now I can insert a couple of punches and it will be aligned.
Second issue I found was a bad bearing on the sprocket, there are two, the outer most one was sticky so I ordered two new ones from McMaster Carr. I think the reason for the bad bearing is two fold, one it was being pushed on by the little thrust bearings I was using but only pushing on the very center, I don't think these bearings like side loading. And two the DOM tubing it is going into is not perfectly round or proper size. I'll figure out how to deal with that when the time comes




Third issue I found was some galling on the thrust washer at the ramp piece and drum, I greased them but I guess not enough or because the ramp only exerts pressure in one spot it's not spread around. I hope to solve this by installing some high load bronze oil impregnated washers from McMaster. They come in two sizes for 1" shaft, I ordered the larger size, 2 7/8".
My thought here is it will transfer the pressure to the DOM and not the bearing and hopefully the new ramp I'm making will more equally distribute the pressure.
It is a learning experience for sure.
Stay tuned for more updates when I get the parts.


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 1, 2018)

Well the "new ramp" design was a bust! 
Oh well, onward and upward.
I made some new ramps out of 2.5" DOM .250 wall that I had. I made a double ramp so I'm hoping that it will work. I also reinforced the other side of the winch with a piece of 4" channel, I think it will help. I can't wait to test it out.
BTW I put the clutch back in, at least that had some grip...LOL I can get some serious force on it now so hopefully it will work.


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 2, 2018)

Well I am happy to report that the little winch that could, did! I gave it a pretty good workout this morning, pulling two logs at a time and other than an adjustment on the adjuster screws it worked pretty good. I am pleased with it's operation and call it a win! 
Thanks to all for the help, support and advice.


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 6, 2018)

A short video I took today , it's still working well.


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## Jakers (Apr 6, 2018)

Nice laser measuring device.... no video though


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 6, 2018)

Jakers said:


> Nice laser measuring device.... no video though



LOL, fixxered....thanks


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 6, 2018)

Here is one my buddy took the other day;


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 7, 2019)

Hi all, I just wanted to check in with a report about my logging winch.
I hauled it to the mountain last week and hauled a few logs (about 3 cord) and it worked great. 
My buddy is planning on using it for a decent size clearing behind his house this winter.
In case you didn't read "Firewood tractors" thread I have a brand new Kubota L2501 4x4 HST with R4 tires and loader.


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## smokey310 (Dec 20, 2020)

Nice job on logging winch build. I got a lot of good ideas and info but I was looking for one part number and name of place you got it from, and that would be the large 60 tooth sprocket info please. Thanks


dancan said:


> There's no pressure plate on my logging winches


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## dave_dj1 (Dec 23, 2020)

smokey310 said:


> Nice job on logging winch build. I got a lot of good ideas and info but I was looking for one part number and name of place you got it from, and that would be the large 60 tooth sprocket info please. Thanks


Thank you, it is one of the best things I have built. I pulled a bunch out with it last week before the storm
I'm pretty sure I got the 60 tooth sprocket either at Surplus Supply or Tractor supply, I really don't remember. I'm sure they both have them.
Anything else just give a shout, be glad to offer what I can, too bad the pics are mostly gone, darn photobucket!






60 Tooth 60 Pitch Series X Weld-On Roller Chain Sprocket 60X60B | Weld-On Sprockets | Sprockets | Power Transmission | www.surpluscenter.com


60 Tooth 60 Pitch Series X Weld-On Roller Chain Sprocket 60X60B, Weld-On Sprockets, 60X60B 60 PITCH 60 TOOTH SPROCKET, HUBLESS 60 PITCH SPROCKETConcentric International,TOMS60X60 ,



www.surpluscenter.com


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## smokey310 (Apr 26, 2021)

Awesome job on the winch build. A lot of great info. I am planning a similar Build soon. Do you know how many feet of cable you were able to get on the spool and what size it was. Also I was thinking about trying to buy the clutch engagement mechanism from farmi considering the rough time you had getting yours dialed in. Any thoughts?


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 29, 2021)

I put 200' of 1/4" air craft cable on with no issues.( a friend gave me a new 500' spool of it)The cable is rated at 4400 lbs and I haven't had a problem with it but I also respect it for what it is and don't try to yank 100' Red Oak trees...LOL
As far as the clutch, once I got the final design working I am very happy with it.
One thing I would like to change is the spool, I'm thinking of using a lawn tractor wheel (think steps in the rim for strength) as I do get a little flex from the sprocket and side of my spool. I believe that is the weak link. If you can source a clutch assembly at a reasonable price I say go for it.
One thing I just thought of is I would also make the center shaft larger, maybe go from 1' to 1 1/4" or so. I just mostly was trying to use what I had available.


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## smokey310 (Apr 29, 2021)

dave_dj1 said:


> I put 200' of 1/4" air craft cable on with no issues.( a friend gave me a new 500' spool of it)The cable is rated at 4400 lbs and I haven't had a problem with it but I also respect it for what it is and don't try to yank 100' Red Oak trees...LOL
> As far as the clutch, once I got the final design working I am very happy with it.
> One thing I would like to change is the spool, I'm thinking of using a lawn tractor wheel (think steps in the rim for strength) as I do get a little flex from the sprocket and side of my spool. I believe that is the weak link. If you can source a clutch assembly at a reasonable price I say go for it.
> One thing I just thought of is I would also make the center shaft larger, maybe go from 1' to 1 1/4" or so. I just mostly was trying to use what I had available.


Thank you very much for the info and I am glad it is all working out for you. I really appreciate all the time you put into doing this DIY thread. Hopefully I can get started soon on my attempt to make my winch. Slowly trying to gather up the materials and all the info I can.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 13, 2022)

smokey310 said:


> Nice job on logging winch build. I got a lot of good ideas and info but I was looking for one part number and name of place you got it from, and that would be the large 60 tooth sprocket info please. Thanks


I'm pretty sure I got that sprocket from Surplus Center. It's #60 chain


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## Jakers (Mar 15, 2022)

dave_dj1 said:


> I'm pretty sure I got that sprocket from Surplus Center. It's #60 chain


Ha!!! Really got right on that reply didn't ya Dave???


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## JimmyG (Mar 16, 2022)

Dave and folks, let me pick your brains for an opinion here... I got it into my head that I need to put together my own version of a winch. (Looking to keep the whole affair under $700 or so.) I am considering running a double B pulley jackshaft between pto and drum. Mostly to utilize the belts as a clutch mechanism via a manually engaged idler pulley. I am considering this not only because I have no experience working with friction clutches but also I have no machinist tools for getting the bearings into the spool drum properly. I was thinking of using surplus center flange bearings and welding/bolting the cable spool, the big 60 Tooth drive sprocket and shaft all together into one unit. Idling would happen by slacking the jackshaft belt. 
I havent bought anything or invested a dime yet, still planning. 
My old tractor is rated at 27hp at the pto, 540. Probably weighs about 3k or so.
-Thanks


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 19, 2022)

I have seen some that use the belt method on you tube. Should work


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## JimmyG (Apr 5, 2022)

I Decided to go with an auto clutch engage style. Here are the pics...


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## JimmyG (Apr 5, 2022)

I need to cock that pulley over to follow the line of the cable into the spool. It rubs.


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## dave_dj1 (Apr 5, 2022)

Looks good Jim, maybe instead of moving the pulley you could add an idler pulley half way up to guide it?
Quick question, do you have the clutch disc attached to either the drum or the sprocket? I see your shaft turns, mine was stationary, not that matters I don't think.


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## JimmyG (Apr 5, 2022)

Thanks, Dave. Seeing your build certainly helped. 
Clutch is attached to a 3/8" plate which is attached to the 3/8" wall of the drum. With that thickness there is no flex. The sprocket is stationary and I do see it flex when I engage the winch hard. 
The shaft is not fixed in place but it does not turn during use that I have ever noticed. It is only 1" but it's a higher carbon alloy.


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