# groundsman pay



## Arborsharp (Mar 7, 2022)

I am working on developing a pay grade system for groundsmen in my central Iowa small tree care company (me+groundie) and wondered if I could get some advice.
what is good starting pay? top end?



https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Tree-Groundsman-Salary


$14.60/hr nationwide avg, 

that being said, can I really pay groundsmen less than they could make at some of these other jobs?
local grocery distributor starting wages: $18 PT, $20 FT.
Amazon warehouse, $17.25
even McD's is up to $13

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## cookies (Mar 7, 2022)

If you want good reliable people its going to cost you 20+ a hour


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## ATH (Mar 7, 2022)

I hired another part time helper at $15. She can make more than that somewhere else, but she isn't going to get the flexibility we'll offer. She is trying to get another business of her own off the ground so wants to make appointments with that. We're willing to work around her schedule to fill in the rest of her week. Will probably bump her pay pretty quick as she's doing great so far.


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## sand sock (Mar 9, 2022)

If you're working around a chipper. You want your rope minded. It's going to be at least 20. A young kid I know working under the table is doing 20.


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## Arborsharp (May 2, 2022)

sorry just responding- My app hasn't been working :-| he agreed to 17.30 plus productivity bonuses and a pathway to pay increases. definitely a different world than when i started working for 6.25 in high school in 05
thanks for the insights!


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## Blue Oaks (May 2, 2022)

You have to start somewhere. I was making six bucks an hour doing demolition of burned down houses in the early nineties. There are aspects of that job that I miss.


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## Arborsharp (May 2, 2022)

Blue Oaks said:


> You have to start somewhere. I was making six bucks an hour doing demolition of burned down houses in the early nineties. There are aspects of that job that I miss.


yeah seems like a rule in life, increasing salary results in decreasing fun


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## Jonathon Masters (May 10, 2022)

My brush dragger makes $15 and my equipment operator makes $18. Both are trained on port-a-wrap, chipper, and chainsaw but don't do any felling at this point. Most guys that are okay with less than $15 aren't reliable at showing up, and only do what they're told, no initiative. Just my experience.


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## j_d (May 28, 2022)

People can't get good help often because they don't pay enough. $14.60 is a joke and insulting to anyone that shows up, works hard and has the capacity to learn. How would you like to work for that?

Treat your people as well as you can. It will pay off.


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## singinwoodwackr (May 28, 2022)

_wow…a totally different world now. _


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## Jwilliams (Aug 5, 2022)

Tree guy I work for is 20 an hr for a groundsman, if your a good worker reliable and show your gonna work hard to get the job done he has no problem paying 25 and that’s just dragging and chipping. I operate machinery, cut, climb, and operate bucket truck and my rate starts at 30 and only goes up from there


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## capetrees (Aug 7, 2022)

Jwilliams said:


> Tree guy I work for is 20 an hr for a groundsman, if your a good worker reliable and show your gonna work hard to get the job done he has no problem paying 25 and that’s just dragging and chipping. I operate machinery, cut, climb, and operate bucket truck and my rate starts at 30 and only goes up from there


How much does the business owner make from the groundies hard work? Pays the guy $15/hr but charges out how much? $30/hr? $40/hr?


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## ATH (Aug 7, 2022)

capetrees said:


> How much does the business owner make from the groundies hard work? Pays the guy $15/hr but charges out how much? $30/hr? $40/hr?


FWIW, my brother-in-law has run several businesses (never tree related). Does some consulting, sits on some boards, etc... He knows business.

He told me years ago it isn't uncommon to bill 2x the cost to employ. That is not just wage, but workers comp, employer share of FICA, and any benefits. Not sure if that also includes their vehicle and associated expenses?

I've personally felt the employee deserves a slightly higher % of what they generate...but I cannot forget about all those expenses plus the wear and tear that happens to equipment, PPE, etc... All more from an employee than from me because I paid for that stuff so I take better care. So 2x isn't too terrible far off. Maybe 2x hourly wage is a pretty good gauge?


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## capetrees (Aug 7, 2022)

ATH said:


> FWIW, my brother-in-law has run several businesses (never tree related). Does some consulting, sits on some boards, etc... He knows business.
> 
> He told me years ago it isn't uncommon to bill 2x the cost to employ. That is not just wage, but workers comp, employer share of FICA, and any benefits. Not sure if that also includes their vehicle and associated expenses?
> 
> I've personally felt the employee deserves a slightly higher % of what they generate...but I cannot forget about all those expenses plus the wear and tear that happens to equipment, PPE, etc... All more from an employee than from me because I paid for that stuff so I take better care. So 2x isn't too terrible far off. Maybe 2x hourly wage is a pretty good gauge?


Exactly. That's the accepted minimum that an employer charges out the man hour per employee, twice the wage. If the costs are covered, the more an employer pays the employee, the more that employer can make by charging out the higher doubled wage.

For example, if an employer pays his employees $20/hr and then charges out $40/hr for that employee, I would assume the costs are covered and at the very least, the costs are covered by the charged rate. All of the insurances and coverages and taxes you mention should be covered and should be somewhat constant although I know workers comp adjusts with wage. So if $40/hr covers the costs plus the hourly wage to the employee, almost every dollar given to an employee above that can be recovered from the client. So when the employee wants a $2 raise after some time, that $2 dollar raise can translate to a $4 increase to the client for the hourly rate for the manpower. Tight economy? Raise the charged rate by $3 or even simply the raise of $2 to cover the raise. Anything over the $2 increase of the charged hourly rate to the client results in a win win. Win #1 to the employee for the added income from the raise and #2 to the employer who makes more on the charge out to the client.


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## ATH (Aug 7, 2022)

IF you can get away charging the client more.

Where I find it easy to give a raise is once a new employee gets settled into a groove, the same job gets done more quickly. I don't bill clients by the hour, rather by the job (which is quoted with a length of time in my mind). When we find jobs are getting done quicker than expected, it is because the workers are crushing it. Give them more. When things are right on pace, great...but to give them a raise, I've gotta bid higher which risks not getting the job...


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## ClimberBusinessman (Oct 8, 2022)

The man hour average for the crew, including groundsmen and climbers/lift operators, needs to be at at least $100 *per man* hour to make a profit, after you include all business expenses, both general liability insurance (and the dreadfully expensive worker's comp), and trucks, trailers, chippers, climbing/rigging gear, any spider lifts, etc. For a simple, 50' spruce tree away from houses, that would be a job that would take a three man crew 4 hours on the job, times 3 guys (12 man hours). That would need to be $1,200.


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## FlyingDutchman (Dec 3, 2022)

I made 15 an hour as ground crew 2018. No matter what I was able to do/offer, it never changed. Quickly took another job as soon as I could. Plus got a nasty tendon injury that took 8 months to heal also.


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