# Hourly rates



## capetrees (Oct 27, 2009)

This may have been discussed earlier but what do some of you climbers/company owners charge out for a climber? On the ground, I charge out $40 per man, $120/hr for the chipper on top of that. But I'm feeling the $40 for climbing is off. It's something that takes more skill and is simply something some people won't do. Do you charge different prices if you climb the tree to trim/remove or are the rates the same all around, regardless of what you're doing?


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## huskystihl (Oct 27, 2009)

capetrees said:


> This may have been discussed earlier but what do some of you climbers/company owners charge out for a climber? On the ground, I charge out $40 per man, $120/hr for the chipper on top of that. But I'm feeling the $40 for climbing is off. It's something that takes more skill and is simply something some people won't do. Do you charge different prices if you climb the tree to trim/remove or are the rates the same all around, regardless of what you're doing?



Not to many jobs are by the hour but 2 guys and a chipper for $200 an hour wouldn't fly around here. Maybe moneys a little better in your parts but you'd be out of biz real fast here in OH. Don't get me wrong, theres a lot of jobs that average 2 bills an hour but to come out and tell a customer my rate is $200 an hour I wouldn't have to set the alarm tomorrow thats for sure.


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## BlackenedTimber (Oct 27, 2009)

I don't charge by the hour.

I do the bidding by the hour though, meaning that I know my cost for each item (personnel/equip/etc) per hour, and then I figure out how long I think the job's gonna take me to complete. Once I am comfortable with my cost, I mark that number up to encompass my profit, and then hand that number to the customer. 

It works out pretty well for me doing it that way.


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## huskystihl (Oct 27, 2009)

BlackenedTimber said:


> I don't charge by the hour.
> 
> I do the bidding by the hour though, meaning that I know my cost for each item (personnel/equip/etc) per hour, and then I figure out how long I think the job's gonna take me to complete. Once I am comfortable with my cost, I mark that number up to encompass my profit, and then hand that number to the customer.
> 
> It works out pretty well for me doing it that way.



Gotcha, that makes sense. if you can pull $200 an hour with a well paid ground guy you can stop that climbing and get a bucket and be way more produtive.


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## capetrees (Oct 27, 2009)

huskystihl said:


> Not to many jobs are by the hour but 2 guys and a chipper for $200 an hour wouldn't fly around here. Maybe moneys a little better in your parts but you'd be out of biz real fast here in OH. Don't get me wrong, theres a lot of jobs that average 2 bills an hour but to come out and tell a customer my rate is $200 an hour I wouldn't have to set the alarm tomorrow thats for sure.




I apparently wasn't too clear.

The $40/hr is per man on the full day. The chipper I add to the day so $40 per man x 2 men x 8 hours = $640 then add the $120 for the chipper, total $760. A lot of material can go through the chipper in an hour. I usuallty don't need it more than 1 hour a day. 

Why I ask about the climber is of course, more time is spent in the tree than if we could take the tree down on the ground only. For instance, I took out three trees ground level last week in two hours, cut chipped and gone. Later, I took out 1 maple amongst wires and over a street and deck and it took 3 hours alone, all taken down by hand while in the tree. On a trim job, I would price it according to hours but what price should it be per hour, still $40?


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 27, 2009)

So if you go $50 per man hour, 2 guys 8 hours is $800 and that is without the equiptment per hour. Makes it easier to bid.


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## treeclimber101 (Oct 27, 2009)

Three an hr . includes three men and the equipment ,whatever they may need , minus a crane ..


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## GarethVW (Oct 27, 2009)

I try to charge $50 per man hour minimum. I don't have a crane or bucket. I am very close to what other tree services are charging in the area.


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## Thillmaine1 (Oct 27, 2009)

Everywhere I have worked has charged around 80 a man hour. That typically includes a truck and chipper, some companies have charged another 80 for every hour a bucket is on the job, some havent. Climbers, groundmen, drivers all get billed at the same rate.
FYI, I have worked in Boston, all over New Enlgand, and all over New York, but have found rates pretty consistently right between 70 and 80.


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## Lawnmowerboy48 (Oct 27, 2009)

$120 per hour for the chipper is insane and $40 per man hour for tree work is not much better. PM me I should be able to give you some direction in this...


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 27, 2009)

Please give!


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## GarethVW (Oct 27, 2009)

capetrees said:


> I apparently wasn't too clear.
> 
> The $40/hr is per man on the full day. The chipper I add to the day so $40 per man x 2 men x 8 hours = $640 then add the $120 for the chipper, total $760. A lot of material can go through the chipper in an hour. I usuallty don't need it more than 1 hour a day.
> 
> ...


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## huskystihl (Oct 27, 2009)

80 an hour for a 2 man crew is about right bucket or not. The difference is by the time a good climber gets rigged up and starts a saw the chipper has been running for a good 20 minutes. I know a bucket is a big investment and may cause you to either climb anyways or walk away from a job but what used to take all day is now done by 1. I know of an old timer who charges extra for this and that and would charge $800 for a tree that i'd do for 400 which is probably why I dont see his truck around much anymore. It's a cut throat biz and every time I turn around theres a new outfit in town.Tree work is kind of like the tortois and the hair, steady wins the race. It's not always how much you make in a day but how much you make in a year.


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## RVALUE (Oct 27, 2009)

The flaw in hourly rates is that all men are not equal. In some trades one can be 10 times better (or faster) than another. In tree work, being twice as fast as another is probable. (technique plus equipment)

By the job is much fairer when available.


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## bulldoglover (Oct 27, 2009)

RVALUE said:


> The flaw in hourly rates is that all men are not equal. In some trades one can be 10 times better (or faster) than another. In tree work, being twice as fast as another is probable. (technique plus equipment)
> 
> By the job is much fairer when available.



Double edge sword there. Can't bid a job by the hour, but to get a bid for a job you have to figure your cost per hour. By the way which came first the chicken or the egg?


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## TimberJack_7 (Oct 27, 2009)

BlackenedTimber said:


> I don't charge by the hour.
> 
> I do the bidding by the hour though, meaning that I know my cost for each item (personnel/equip/etc) per hour, and then I figure out how long I think the job's gonna take me to complete. Once I am comfortable with my cost, I mark that number up to encompass my profit, and then hand that number to the customer.
> 
> It works out pretty well for me doing it that way.




What he said.


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## PurdueJoe (Oct 28, 2009)

Guy I use to work for would get $50 per man, $50 for truck + chipper, $50 bucket + $25 for the mini. So 3 man crew with everything on it you're looking at $275 an hour. My rates are similar but slightly lower. Don't want to derail but do most companies charge per man + equipment or is it set with men and equipment combined? Because how can you justify charge $90 a man hour with equipment included on a job where all you need is 2 guys dropping stuff where no equipment is needed?


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## arbor pro (Oct 28, 2009)

Up until this season, I didn't have any problem staying plenty busy charging $65/hr per man (ground or aerial work) which included saws, rigging equipment and pickups. Aerial lift, bobcat, chipper, stump grinder and dump trailer all have an additional hourly rate ranging from $30-$150/hr.

On average, I bill out about $180-200/hr for a 2-man crew and my daily goal for an 8-hour day is $1400 though, on some days, we'll bring in $2k. When I run a 3-man crew, I typically bill another $100/hr for labor and equipment. Repairs, overhead and loan payments eat up a huge portion of the gross. 

This year, work has been slower but I have still stayed busy up to this week where I am, for the first time this season, down to only 1 week of work on the calendar. While I'd rather have a month's worth of work lined up right now, I have no intention of lowering my rates to compete with the local lowballers who are doing removals at half or a third my rate. I'll stick to pruning and hope that people will continue to pay for my experience and qualifications.


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## arbor pro (Oct 28, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> Up until this season, I didn't have any problem staying plenty busy charging $65/hr per man (ground or aerial work) which included saws, rigging equipment and pickups. Aerial lift, bobcat, chipper, stump grinder and dump trailer all have an additional hourly rate ranging from $30-$150/hr.
> 
> On average, I bill out about $180-200/hr for a 2-man crew and my daily goal for an 8-hour day is $1400 though, on some days, we'll bring in $2k. When I run a 3-man crew, I typically bill another $100/hr for labor and equipment. Repairs, overhead and loan payments eat up a huge portion of the gross.
> 
> This year, work has been slower but I have still stayed busy up to this week where I am, for the first time this season, down to only 1 week of work on the calendar. While I'd rather have a month's worth of work lined up right now, I have no intention of lowering my rates to compete with the local lowballers who are doing removals at half or a third my rate. I'll stick to pruning and hope that people will continue to pay for my experience and qualifications.



In retrospect...I am part-time (20 or so hours a week) so my workload is about 1/2 to 1/3 of a full-time tree service. Since I do fewer jobs, I suppose I can afford to lose the lower-priced removals to the lowballers whereas some of you full-timers might have a tougher time staying busy.


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## Lawnmowerboy48 (Oct 28, 2009)

I misread the post but still $120 a day for a chipper is still pretty crazy. With us that would give the chipper a little over two hours of run time. How many of you guys actually know your hourly costs of operating machines and labor costs? I have seen a lot of,"I try to get $xx per man hour", in my eyes that does not cut it. Know your costs.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 28, 2009)

I dont break it down to man and machine. I combine it.


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## isaclimber (Oct 28, 2009)

capetrees said:


> This may have been discussed earlier but what do some of you climbers/company owners charge out for a climber? On the ground, I charge out $40 per man, $120/hr for the chipper on top of that. But I'm feeling the $40 for climbing is off. It's something that takes more skill and is simply something some people won't do. Do you charge different prices if you climb the tree to trim/remove or are the rates the same all around, regardless of what you're doing?


Figure the jobs with your hourly rate, give it to your client as the job price. your client doesn't need to know what you charge per hour. If its T&M figure a price that covers every thing needed for the job. the going rate where i am is 60 to 65 a man hour. A 3 man crew with a bucket truck and chipper is 180 to 195 an hour.


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## cam185 (Oct 29, 2009)

*My rate per hour*

I just put an estimate on clearing a overgrown lot next to homeowners house. The things included in this estimate were 1 helper, myself, chipper, removing 2 12 inch pine trees, cutting out all the underbrush, and trimming the trees left. $1250.00 I based my numbers on (2) 8 hour days. :greenchainsaw:


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## arbor pro (Oct 30, 2009)

cam185 said:


> I just put an estimate on clearing a overgrown lot next to homeowners house. The things included in this estimate were 1 helper, myself, chipper, removing 2 12 inch pine trees, cutting out all the underbrush, and trimming the trees left. $1250.00 I based my numbers on (2) 8 hour days. :greenchainsaw:



$1250 divided by 32 man hours (2 men x 8 hrs x 2 days) = $40/hr for labor plus equipment. I'm not sure how anyone could afford to work for $40/hr on labor alone not to mention the cost of equipment. $40/hr sounds like an awesome hourly rate if there were no overhead or equipment expenses taken into account. If that's the case, it's just a matter of time until a major expense or two come along and there's no money built up in reserves to get things back up and running.


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## irish93stang (Oct 30, 2009)

150.00 an hour bucket truck and chipper from the time i leave til i get to your door.. climbing services a little extra if its out of the bucket.. all wood stays and stumps stay those are extra too


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## Lawnmowerboy48 (Oct 30, 2009)

So are you guys covering your fuel, oil, property rental, billing and mailing costs, equipment maintenance, electric and heat in the shop, taxes, liability, insurance workmens comp, in your hourly rates? Or do you just figure that you will be able to pay for those somehow from through your income?


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## cam185 (Oct 30, 2009)

Yep im renting a vermeer bc935 9 inch chipper, its 190 a day but in my bid i figured for 250 a day with fuel and going to pick up/return it. I started the cutting today bymyself and am almost half way done. things are going much faster than expected and i might not even need my helper all that much!!!


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## Lawnmowerboy48 (Nov 1, 2009)

Do you guys know how to come up with your hourly rates?


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 1, 2009)

Duh?


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## clearance (Nov 1, 2009)

RVALUE said:


> The flaw in hourly rates is that all men are not equal.



True words.


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## RVALUE (Nov 1, 2009)

cam185 said:


> Yep im renting a vermeer bc935 9 inch chipper, its 190 a day but in my bid i figured for 250 a day with fuel and going to pick up/return it. I started the cutting today bymyself and am almost half way done. things are going much faster than expected and i might not even need my helper all that much!!!







and i might not even need my helper all that much!!! 



Plenty of helpers fit this requirement.....


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## cory nicols (Apr 3, 2011)

Just curious, if you guys are figuring travel time into your hourly rates, or if it's actual time on the job site? Thanks


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