# Borates, what do you use?



## TraditionalTool (Apr 7, 2010)

I have been using 20 mule team borax mixed with water, 2 cups per 5 gallons of water is what I've been told to use.

On another site, and Perma-Chink dealer told me that their Shell-Guard has a much higher content of boric acid, but the price is a bit steep for my pocket book. I know there is also Boracol from Sansin and Tim-bor from U.S. Borax.

Thing is that in California borates can only be sold to folks with an S3 license, which is for licensed pest control. Even though borates are completely safe, it seems that in Cali because it is used for pest control, it now requires an S3 license.

I can get a 25 lb. pale of Tim-bor for about $75-$90 online.

What type of borates do you folks spray on your logs, and do you think one of the commercial products is that much better than using 20 Mule Team Borax with water as I have been using?


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## Ed*L (Apr 7, 2010)

I used the tim-bor last fall on some infested rough sawn Soft Maple, really hasn't warmed up enough for the little bastids to start knawing again.
I'll keep you posted on how it works.

Ed


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## TraditionalTool (Apr 7, 2010)

Ed*L said:


> I used the tim-bor last fall on some infested rough sawn Soft Maple, really hasn't warmed up enough for the little bastids to start knawing again.
> I'll keep you posted on how it works.
> 
> Ed


I'm checking right now (hey, unintentional pun;-) to see if I can get Tim-bor in California or not. I was looking at the Log Home Store and it says they can't sell Penetreat to California, so I've inquired about both Tim-bor and Shell Guard.

Is that the first time for you to use Tim-bor, Ed?


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## Brmorgan (Apr 7, 2010)

What's it for anyway? Does it slow down carpenter ants and borer beetles or something?


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## TraditionalTool (Apr 7, 2010)

Brmorgan said:


> What's it for anyway? Does it slow down carpenter ants and borer beetles or something?


Yes, exactly...but much more and some of the products have mold and fungus prevention in them.

For log and timber frame homes this is very common, most everyone will spray with borates, but many sawyers do use borates also.

A friend recently spotted some borers in his anvil stump. He's sprayed it with a borax solution, which is similar to what I have been using on wood. Regular 'ol 20 Mule Team Borax mixed with water, 2 cups per 5 gallon I've been using (I'm not sure what concentrate he mixed). I have also heard of some liquid products that are mixed with the water solution also. I'm not sure exactly which ones yet. I have used borax powder for ants also, since Diazonon is not available in California anymore (what I used to use). Borax is slower but works and is safe as it's only soap.

FWIW, a found a great website from a friend today, DIY Pest Control, which is a great place to get these products. They have a much better price on Tim-bor than a Log Home vendor I deal with.

One important aspect which I am guilty of is having fallen trees with the bark on, most sawyers I know will get the bark off ASAP and spray the trees with some type of borate product. I need to get a bark spud.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Apr 7, 2010)

> Yes, exactly...but much more and some of the products have mold and fungus prevention in them.




The borate compounds are a natural anti-fungal. It's being used to treat lumber used in house building now, where the wood will not be exposed to weather. Being water soluable, the treatment doesn't last well outdoors, compared to the cupric type of treatments.

http://www.escuewoodpreserving.com/borate.htm


Pretty silly that you need a license for it in Kalifornia, since that's where most of it is mined!


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## BlueRidgeMark (Apr 7, 2010)

TraditionalTool said:


> Borax is slower but works and is safe as it's only soap.
> .





Too much is still a bad thing, but as pest control goes, it's pretty safe stuff.


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## TraditionalTool (Apr 8, 2010)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Pretty silly that you need a license for it in Kalifornia, since that's where most of it is mined!


I know, it's funny...my property is right by one of the biggest deposits of it also, it was mined for many years in Lake County and the golf course under my property, which is at the foot of the volcano (Mt. Konocti) has thick deposits on top of the lake (Little Borax Lake). Borax was also mined from a larger deposit on the other side of the lake.

After, I'm told, they moved it to Death Valley.

We can order many borates online and they can be delivered. Odd, that some are available only in concentrate, requiring that it be mixed. Those are not available in RTU (Ready To Use) products for Cali...go figure...that's odd also...


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## Backwoods (Apr 9, 2010)

I have been using 20-mule train borax on our Myrtlewood. I wash or brush the sawdust off the board right after milling. I mix it with warm water to help dissolve it and keep adding until it will no longer dissolve. I just use a garden sprayer to apply it, making sure that I get a good saturation on all surfaces, including the stickers. When it dries, it leaves a thin layer that the powder post beetles do not seem to penetrate.


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## TraditionalTool (Apr 9, 2010)

Backwoods said:


> I have been using 20-mule train borax on our Myrtlewood. I wash or brush the sawdust off the board right after milling. I mix it with warm water to help dissolve it and keep adding until it will no longer dissolve. I just use a garden sprayer to apply it, making sure that I get a good saturation on all surfaces, including the stickers. When it dries, it leaves a thin layer that the powder post beetles do not seem to penetrate.


BW,

This is what I've been doing. The reason I was asking is that it seems that most borate products have a much higher concentration of boric acid.


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## Backwoods (Apr 9, 2010)

I am open to finding something stronger as well. Myrtlewood is one of those woods that you do not get much penetration, and Powder post beetles love the stuff.


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