# Tips for starting cold blooded diesels



## TreeJunkie (Oct 30, 2005)

I'm looking for tips to help w/ strarting my cold blooded chipper. Vermeer 1230 w/ the 80 hp Perkins. 

Does anyone have any tips with out using starting fluid. Unfortunately i do not have the ability to plug in the engine block heater over night b/c no electricity at the lot i'm parking.

I've heard things on here in the past like using wd40 however is this really better than the starting fluid? 

Tips appreciated.


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## Diesel JD (Oct 30, 2005)

Tree Junkie...does she have glow plugs, an intake heater, or any way to rig up something like that? Are you sure that the compression is good and the fuel system is in good shape? Any air/fuel leaks anywhere...battery and starter in tip-top shape? One trick I have heard tossed around on diesel forums is to direct the hot exhaust from your truck into the air intake to heat things up..same trick can be accomplished by a hair dryer, but I am assuming you have no access to electricity since you say teh block heater is no option(obviously not on the job site) There is a good discussion forum called The Diesel Stop for diesel questions, which is where I learned most everything(the little) that I know about diesels. Post this questyion over there in the General Diesel forum and I'll bet you'll have lots of hits. Good luck,
J.D.


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## begleytree (Oct 30, 2005)

Yes, WD40 works. At least theres some lube in it, unlike ether.
Are your glowplugs working?

I would recommend installing a DC block heater on your tow vehicle and chipper. Start your truck in the am, turn on the heater, and by the time you get to the jobsite, your chippers warmed up. A quality anti-gel and fresh fuel filters help too, but you may already be doing that.
-Ralph


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## stehansen (Oct 31, 2005)

Add another battery.


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## Stumper (Oct 31, 2005)

Tie rag to stick. Dip rag in fuel. Light rag. Hold burning rag in front of air intake. Start engine. Buy "I'm a happy Redneck" T-shirt.


P.S. For High-tech city-slicker redneck apppearances you might substitute a propane torch for the fuel soaked rag.


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## dtw902 (Oct 31, 2005)

You could do the same thing with a AC block heater just get a converter (large enough for your needs) in your tow vehical. And as Ralph said plug it in going down the road. And you will have AC power for your other hand tools.


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## Mr_Brushcutter (Oct 31, 2005)

Don't really know anything about diesels but its been mentional all ready that directing warm air into the air intake works.

Saw on a UK TV program "Scrap heap challange" thats like your junkyard wars. But they used a hot air gun to shoot hot air into the diesel engine and that got it going, in that case the glow plugs were working.


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## jokers (Oct 31, 2005)

Diesels start harder in the cold but they shouldn`t be too hard to start. If they are it`s indicative of a problem, probably the most obvious of which is compression.

Next make sure that the fuel delivery sytem is in good shape, no leaks, clean fuel filters, properly timed pump, and injectors that don`t bleed down or are blocked. The fuel filters are alot more important than alot of guys give them credit for. If the pressure delivered to the injectors is low because of a partially clogged filter, the fuel will not be sufficiently atomized for efficient combustion. It`s a similar problem with faulty injectors and injectors that are blocked don`t deliver enough fuel.

If the pump is timed improperly the fuel delivered to the engine can be too little or too much, Self explanatory.

Obviously leaks are bad depending on where in the fuel path they are located, after the pump and the pressure to the injectors can be too low. Before the pump and you can suck air.

Having enough battery obviously gets you cranking fast enough to compress(heat up) and combust the fuel/air mixture. As a few others pointed out, you can also redirect vehicle exhaust to your intake in the absence of a block or manifold heater or glow plugs. Just take something like an old vacuum cleaner hose and hold one end near the exhaust of the running vehicle and the other end near or in the air intake. The higher velocity air(relative to atmosphere) from the exhaust will act like a jet pump and mix the hot exhaust with fresh air for combustion. The vacuum from the cranking diesel will enhance the pulling in of heated combustion air. Burning stuff near the air intake will also work but I`m sure it`s also an exciting way to find to find a pinhole leak in a high pressure fuel line.

I`d say that WD-40 is worlds better than ether as a lubricant on start up, but look at how well WD-40 acts as a solvent on oil and grease. I`d still use it sparingly.

I do use Power Service diesel additive to reduce/eliminate gelling and to deal with any small quantity of water that may be present in the fuel. The additive also has a pump lubricant in it to compensate for the low sulphur diesel fuel that we now use. I`ve had good luck with it and a bottle that treats something like 125 gallons is only $9.

Russ


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## kf_tree (Oct 31, 2005)

what about running synthetic oil in the colder months since it doesn't thicken up as much as petroleum based oil? 

i was in NH 2 years ago.......there was a 4-5 day stretch of -20 degree days. i couldn't get my truck started till it warmed up again. we had a gas truck to use so i wasn't stranded.


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## PWB (Oct 31, 2005)

Assuming the engine is in decent shape (compression, fuel system) you need to get some heat in the top of the engine. Good batteries are a must, the more the better. Try full throttle, crank for maybe 5 seconds, take a break, try again, etc. Two or three gallons of hot water dumped over the intake, a propane torch to heat the intake,etc. A gas soaked rag over the intake, or the propane torch (not lit) directed down the intake sometimes work too. Perkins has (at least on some older ones like my truck) a kit called a "Thermostart" which is a combination glowplug/fuel injector that installs directly in the intake pipe. It's literally a flame thrower, allows me to start an old 354 perkins at -30 c without being plugged in. For a long term permenant solution take a look at "WEBASTO" or "WINTERMISER" engine heaters, among others. These are diesel or gas fired heaters that work like the old heaters that air cooled volkswagens used to run. In their newer form, they heat the coolant in the engine and circulate it. I had a Kenworth that had a "HOTBOX" (same thing in gas, now out of business I think) that would bring the engine to 160 degrees if I waited long enough, although 15 minutes would move the temp needle and start it on the coldest days. Good luck!


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## Curbside (Nov 1, 2005)

The Webasto heaters or Espar Heaters are the best. They use almost no fuel about a cup of fuel an hour and very little battery power. Thirty minutes of run time will bring the engine to operating temperture. They generally cost approx 1500 to 2000 installed. They will last years and can be transferred to another engine if desired. One other option is to tap into your pick up truck coolant with the use of quick connects and circulate the coolant from your truck into the chipper for 10 minutes in the morning and that will bring the engine up to operating temperture before starting as well. Some companies use this system to start their machines up north in the bush and it is cheaper than the heaters.


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## GOBRDGO (Nov 1, 2005)

Would mixed gas be better than wd 40? I thought the propane propellant in wd 40 was the helper in it to start a diesel. I am by far no expert, I have used gas and wd 40 to start dive compressors before. I unfortunately had to dive in craig colorado in a powerplant cooling pond in Feb. Our honda 4 stroke dive compressor wouldn't even start so we used a space heater to warm it up first only than would it start. What a nightmare that job was.


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## Beavercreek (Nov 1, 2005)

I do a lot of cold weather starts with diesels and here is what we do to try and make it easier and less frustrating-
-Ridgid maintenance schedule (most important)
-AC block heaters on everything
-NO ETHER! (I dont spray anything else in either)It does more engine damage than
you think.If it has to be used I am the one who uses it.
-I have an Espar on my truck and I wish I could afford one on everything
-For remote starts I have a propane fired coolant heater-will start my 105 hp
perkins in 20-30 min @ -20F (the best heater I have)
-Trailered equipment gets the block heater plugged into an inverter from truck
-I run straight #2 w/ power service down to -15F then blend
-We can always get the engines started but below -20F other things start to break
so it's not always worth it
-Tarp the engine-helps keep heat in when preheating
Warm starts are easier on the starter,engine,me and keep the CW numbers low.
Everyone has their own tricks this is just what works for me-hope it helps
Bill


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 1, 2005)

When I couldn't plug in my chipper overnight I would make arrangements with the client on the first job to be able to get access to an outlet. When we got to the job I would plug in the block heaters. Besides the coolant jacket heater I had a couple of magnetic heaters. One would go onto the battery box. 

If things were really nasty I would use my kerosene salamander heater, SH, with some duct work. The outlet on the SH was 7" dia so I had a 7" to 6" dia reducer which went into a 6" 90 degree el. I had a four foot long piece of rectangular duct work with both ends plugged. A couple of inches from each end of the long side of the duct I cut holes large enough to slip 6" round duct. The heater el went in one end and the other was positioned under the chipper. A carefully draped tarp kept more of the heat on the engine. In no time the engine was as warm as summer.


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## jimbo1490 (Nov 7, 2005)

I read all of the replies and did not see this mentioned. Cranking speed is very critical to starting modern diesels, especially in cold weather. If the engine lubricating oil is too thick, as it might be in winter, cranking speeds can get too slow for easy starting. Try switching to an oil with as little viscosity as the manufacturer allows, like 10W- or evn 5W- if they allow it. Every little bit helps!

Jimbo


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## TreeJunkie (Nov 11, 2005)

I'm thinking of using a power inverter to run the block heater. Hook it up on the drive to the job. Let it run as long as needed. 

Anyone have an idea of how large of an inverter i would need to do this? How many continuous watts will the block heater require??? That should tell me how large i need to purchase.


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## Redbull (Dec 10, 2005)

I wanted to bump this thread because i experienced problems starting my gas powered chipper when the temps hit single digits this week. It would fire but didn't want to stay running. I went to Home Depot and bought a heater that you attach to your BBQ propane tank. Puts out 15,000 BTU's/hr and only cost $40. I directed it at the oil pan for 15 min and it started right up. The nice thing about this is that you can take it with you to the jobsite and it serves more than one function. It worked wonders for me so I wanted to share my experience.


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## Patrick62 (Dec 11, 2005)

TreeJunkie said:


> I'm thinking of using a power inverter to run the block heater. Hook it up on the drive to the job. Let it run as long as needed.
> 
> Anyone have an idea of how large of an inverter i would need to do this? How many continuous watts will the block heater require??? That should tell me how large i need to purchase.



The only issue I see is the source of the power. Size of your battery, and more importantly the size of your alternator. I have seen engine heaters in more sane sizes (less than 500 watts), and the more potent (1000? watts).

If it is that cold outside, I am willing to bet that the starting battery in the truck is cold as well. Which reduces it's capacity considerably. This is why the size of the alternator is important.

watts divided by volts gives amperage.

Even the little one (500 watt) will use 41 amps off the truck battery.
Double that for the kilowatt model. then add 25% to keep the battery charged. If you actually have a 100 plus amp alternator, go for it.

-pat


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## kf_tree (Dec 11, 2005)

has any one ever heard of useing anti freeze to start a diesel moter....?

long story, but one of our trucks ran out of fuel and the mechanic poured a little antifreeze into the moter and she fired right up. it was a duramax moter and did not have a primer bulb on it.


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## Crofter (Dec 11, 2005)

Be awfully cautious about letting flame get sucked into the intake uless you can get in behind the air cleaner element. I know of one where the paper elements were burned up with that trick and I assume that all the dirt collected previously went through the motor. I do have a David brown tractor with a manifold heater that squirts and burns diesel directly in the manifold to heat the air but it is between the air cleaner and the engine.
I think the cheapest engine heater for powerless locations is the propane fired inline heater.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 11, 2005)

Patrick62 said:


> watts divided by volts gives amperage.
> 
> Even the little one (500 watt) will use 41 amps off the truck battery.
> Double that for the kilowatt model. then add 25% to keep the battery charged. If you actually have a 100 plus amp alternator, go for it.
> ...




Don't forget to use adequate wiring. You'll need at least a 10 guage wire for the 500 watt model, and if your length is much more than 10 feet, you probably ought to go up to 8 guage.

Handy reference: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm


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## PWB (Dec 12, 2005)

Another thought, how's the injectors? I had a problem the last week or two with the wife's car (VW diesel). Wouldn't start below freezing without being plugged in, was good to at least -25 c last winter. Pulled injectors, compression test was good, (425 lbs on all four, calls for at least 400) changed 1 bad glow plug and dropped in a spare set of injectors that I had checked out at the local diesel shop. Started at -10 c this morning no problem.. Car ran okay with 50 mpg. Sounds different now though......


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## GlennG (Dec 13, 2005)

TreeJunkie this won`t help you since you have no ac at your jobsite but maybe it will benefit some lurkers. I have a Vermmer 935 with a Duetz air/oil cooled diesel. It has no glow plugs and starting in the cold is about imposible. I use a hairdryer, blow it right into the intake and it starts up. I let the engine idle to the first job of the day usually 10 miles or less. From then on it starts with no problem. I know 2 other guys using this engine and they all say hard starting is common for a Duetz in the cold. Ya think Duetz would learn....Duetz tanks had cold weather problems in WWII

Glenn


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