# Tree with sign of rot fungus, when to remove?



## cody.matthees (Jun 16, 2014)

A few clients whom I do a little work for have several trees that have signs of a rot fungus (foamies, conks, mushroom looking things, etc) growing out of the trunks. In one case it was a maple that had trunk split when it was younger and it never calloused over the wound. Now there are signs of a rot fungus in the area of the trunk split.




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Tree appears otherwise okay with a fully leafed canopy.




If the tree were to fail it would cause damage to the house and garage or vehicles in the driveway so it does have targets. (Plus power lines if it went that direction)

Question is when should something like this be removed? In my mind it should be removed now before it deteriorates further. Is there anything that can be done at this point other than removal?

Thanks

Cody


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## Raintree (Jun 16, 2014)

I agree it's a removal, the sooner a new tree is planted the better.


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## Westboastfaller (Jun 16, 2014)

Its not going to deteriorate much further,its got heart rot conks
the strength is in the sap wood. Im surprised there is no bird cavities yet, it has high wild life value.
If I was assessing the tree on a job in BC the tree would fall under the hights level of disturbance, that been a level 4 disturbance..living quarters...heli pads working under a medium heli or bigger. even under a level 3 it wouldnt make the criteria for safe as its got more than 25% of the cross face section missing and heat rot conks, I'm counting the heart wood as missing as its rotten as well as that cat face.
There is still a ton of strength there and the strongest fibers remain and won't be efected, only by excavators(sapsuckers, woodpeckers) that allow more oxygen exchange.
you could top the tree to half of its foliage and keep it prunned. that should allow it to thicken and will drastically reduce the sail, then its good, knock off the conks if you don't like the looks.


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## cody.matthees (Jun 18, 2014)

Thanks for the input guys. 

Will hopefully be removing in the next few weeks.


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## treeseer (Jun 22, 2014)

Westboastfaller said:


> Its not going to deteriorate much further,its got heart rot conks
> the strength is in the sap wood..



It's as simple as that; that tree is probably stronger than a same-sized maple with no conks.

crazy to throw away an asset. that wound is closing. The tree needs structural pruning (not topping).


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## Raintree (Jun 23, 2014)

treeseer said:


> It's as simple as that; that tree is probably stronger than a same-sized maple with no conks.


Stop the madness, sometimes I think you are just having fun trolling.



treeseer said:


> crazy to throw away an asset.


 Nothing adds property value more than a half rotted tree hanging over the front of your house, if only I had two of them.


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## cody.matthees (Jun 23, 2014)

Raintree said:


> Nothing adds property value more than a half rotted tree hanging over the front of your house, if only I had two of them.



Exactly. If this were in a backyard or wooded area I would agree with leaving it but this is the front yard of a house that's for sale on a busy county highway in MN lake country.


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## treeseer (Jun 24, 2014)

I missed the For Sale sign. that wound will close in a few years, if the roots are cared for. 5 years from now you might not be able to tell it was there. A green plastic tube lets in light and protects the bark.

Trust the tree, not the rot. No trolling; read the research from Biomechanics Week.

"There is still a ton of strength there and the strongest fibers remain and won't be efected" +1


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## Ed Roland (Jun 25, 2014)

Interesting how otherwise very smart arborists elect removal of this young vigorous tree over preservation. 
Guy is not trolling. Wound material IS stronger than normally lignified wood. (Kane, et, all) 
Look to our industry standards for options for preserving this tree. We can clearly see the progression of callus rolling over the necrotic center bridge. Wall 4 is there to retard spread of rot. Any boring activity in that dead center is for habitat or scavenging. Neither are typically harmful to trees. prune for acceptable risk, ensure optimun cultural conditions and let the opening close. This limits available o2 for the fungi trapped inside.

I vote for preservation. Protect the roots by losing the surrounding monoculture of grass. Replace with mother natures slow release fertilizer, mulch.


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## Raintree (Jun 26, 2014)

I don't find it unusual for Arborists to disagree on a course of action regarding advice given to a homeowner.
Done hundreds of tree hazard evaluations & detailed strength loss tests over the years. Collected field data after hurricane Hugo for Smiley & Fraedrich on tree failures. Actively in the field visiting well over a hundred properties a month saving far more trees than removing. The OP's tree is without a question a removal due to it's location, species & degree of decay. I would not even preform a strength loss test knowing full well in advance it would fail. I have seen Arborists with a profit agenda who are doing homeowner's a disservice attempting to maintain a hazard tree. When the tree quadruples in size & a violent storm blows through, second thoughts will be had.


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## Ed Roland (Jun 26, 2014)

I worked at the BTRL. Eldun was an amazing mentor.

Tell you what rain. Lets each and the other lay out our respected cases here for everyone to consider. You for dismantling and me for preservation.

You have the floor


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## Raintree (Jun 28, 2014)

I was at the BTRL back in the late 80's. Attended the very first IPM class, instructed by Tom & Bruce. Graduated #1 in class, still got the silly insect T-shirt as a reward. Due to Bruce's encouragements I was prompted to obtain my professional licenses & certifications that I hold today. Fond memories.

As for your challenge, I'm at a disadvantage you being a long time AS Guru & I a new comer.

We both know two major missing key parts in this issue is hard data & the property owner's level of acceptable risk.

That said, from the OP's pics (documentation)we can without a doubt establish tree defects & target. As Arborists we have a duty of care to our clients. If & when this tree fails with damage or injury as a result the question of responsibility will arise. In legal proceedings, did the arborist act reasonably? question will be asked. Was there a failure to exercise due care? (negligence due to lack of action) contributed anyway to the resulting damage or injury.
It is my professional opinion that under these limited known circumstances it would be a breach of duty. Not to inform the homeowner of this potentially hazardous tree with the recommendation to remove.
I would strongly suggest to my fellow AS members to agree with me & avoid causation. "Trust the tree" is not a gamble most of us would be willing to take when livelihoods are at stake.

The floor is your Ed.


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## cody.matthees (Jun 28, 2014)

I appreciate the discussion. I have much to learn so keep it up. 

As far as the tree goes the HO has not decided what to do but it's sounding like they want it removed and something new planted. It lost a branch yesterday or the night before in moderate winds (20 gusting to 25-30)





Wood in the branch looked healthy but obviously a decayed attachment point on trunk.


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## Raintree (Jul 1, 2014)

Other key indicator in determining the hazard potential of a given tree is history. Has the tree been shedding out large limbs? Tear outs off the trunk are far more concerning than branch breakage mid span. This is an unfortunate event for the save a tree side, however I am not surprised.


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## Ed Roland (Jul 1, 2014)

Did a limb really fall off above the area with dysfunction? Trees are self optimizing systems. Two board certified master arborists' on this thread have recommended the OP consider preservation with root care. 

Perhaps, Rain, this Acer is not the TRAQ apex predator you believe. 

Cody, Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Raintree (Jul 2, 2014)

What we have in common in regards to this situation Ed is we both believe that we are doing the right thing for the tree & customer. I appreciate the professionalism & the discussion.
Sincerely RT


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## treeseer (Jul 2, 2014)

Kumbayahhhhh....

You both were trained in a company with different values than I was trained with, where managing the client was not a primary objective, and risk aversion was not quite as extreme as it is with a multi-million $ privately held company.

I can still hear Dr.B at expo last year--"You wanna save a tree with Inonotus? Huh? HUH?" 

Cody, nice pics. That maple seems genetically prone to codom unions, as many are and would be culled in many nurseries. Plant them something less common!


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## Ed Roland (Jul 2, 2014)

treeseer said:


> Kumbayahhhhh....
> 
> You both were trained in a company with different values than I was trained with, where managing the client was not a primary objective, and risk aversion was not quite as extreme as it is with a multi-million $ privately held company.



This is risk?


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## treeseer (Jul 3, 2014)

Ed Roland said:


> This is risk?View attachment 357720



Currently, very low. In the future, who knows. Arborist focus belongs on the tree structure more than the target imo.


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## Jace (Jul 3, 2014)

Acceptable distance from electric line at maturity?

>50% circum live callousing tissue keep & structural prune co-dom, revisit in a yr. 
Less than 50% see ya.
And, I cover that ugly sucker w nice looking like black plastic mesh since the wound faces the front as you pull in, if I kept it. 
>$.01 from an amateur.


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## Raintree (Jul 3, 2014)

treeseer said:


> Kumbayahhhhh....



LOL, is that you trolling again seer?


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