# Flipline vs. Large Diameter Tree



## 2dogs (Jul 10, 2016)

My son Cody has quite a few larger Douglas-firs to climb and limb up. These trees are in the 6-10' dbh range. His longest flipline is 18' but it is way too short. We throw as often as possible and on the occasional tree use the Big Shot and work down from the top but the trees are very limby. Regardless he still needs a long flipline. WesSpur has 25' Manila fliplines (the kind I started with back in the seventies) he could use with a 3 strand hip prussic or even a knot.

Is there a 25' wire core flipline made? BTW there is no threat to the tree from the spurs since the bark is at least 4" thick. He will be using this new flipline on redwoods too though not very often. ( It will be like my Stihl 090 with its 4' and 5' bars, used once or twice a year).

Another BTW. We bought a Stihl MS150T while the Ms200T is getting crank seals again. It is a great little saw for the limbs smaller than 3" but above that it struggles. I'm hoping after another few tanks it will wake up. I call it the honeybee. Though I think a bee is louder.


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## treesmith (Jul 10, 2016)

Give the 150t a muff mod, delimit the carb and advance the timing then retune, you'll think it's a different saw
The chain is also really important to get right, the 1/4" chain needs to be spot on inc depth gauges
Sent from my SM-T805Y using Tapatalk


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## beastmaster (Jul 11, 2016)

We use to make our own long flip lines way back when. I still prefer the homemade ones for big trees. I think the extra weight of 3/4" 3 strand makes it easier to whip it around a large diameter tree. It's pretty simple to put cable in three strand rope. Splicing three strand is a peice of cake too. 
We use to us the suicide knot. The becket bend i think is its real name. We used it exclusivily for years. Despite the name its a safe knot to use on a 3 strand lanyard


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 11, 2016)

beastmaster said:


> We use to make our own long flip lines way back when. I still prefer the homemade ones for big trees. I think the extra weight of 3/4" 3 strand makes it easier to whip it around a large diameter tree. It's pretty simple to put cable in three strand rope. Splicing three strand is a peice of cake too.
> We use to us the suicide knot. The becket bend i think is its real name. We used it exclusivily for years. Despite the name its a safe knot to use on a 3 strand lanyard




I think its just a half hitch wound through the side D-ring. I think some call it a CAT'S PAW or something like that. I was surprise to see it so widely used with no other rope.


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## beastmaster (Jul 11, 2016)

the blue line would be your flip line and the other your D-ring. To adjust it you have to turn your hip in and pull it out or push it in. 
I worked doing timber removal many year ago and that was the only method any one one the mountain used. Doesn't work to good with 1/2 in. Braided line. Placeing a cable in 3strand is a neet trick and easy to do. I'll explane how if anyone is interested.


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## hseII (Jul 11, 2016)

beastmaster said:


> the blue line would be your flip line and the other your D-ring. To adjust it you have to turn your hip in and pull it out or push it in.
> I worked doing timber removal many year ago and that was the only method any one one the mountain used. Doesn't work to good with 1/2 in. Braided line. Placeing a cable in 3strand is a neet trick and easy to do. I'll explane how if anyone is interested.



Please Explain.


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## JeffGu (Jul 11, 2016)

2dogs said:


> It is a great little saw for the limbs smaller than 3" but above that it struggles.



3" limbs? Mine's been Snellerized, and I cut 10" stuff with it. Saw needed a slight re-tune when I took this short video clip, but you get the idea. Doesn't blast through bigger stuff, but certainly cuts it easily.


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## JeffGu (Jul 11, 2016)

As to wirecore fliplines... I make my own, too, in various lengths. I prefer to use 3/8" air hose instead of rope for the outer cover. Lasts a hell of a lot longer. I use two or three swages on the ends, to keep the flex point out further away from the eye. Haven't had one break any strands or corrode away, yet. I cut an old one open that I made in 1983 and the cable still looked good as new. I use 5/16" cable, so they're heavy, and you need a swaging tool with at least 30" long handles. You'll still find it easier to start the crimp by hand, then set it on concrete and use your foot to finish the crimp.


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## stihl076 (Aug 17, 2016)

beastmaster said:


> the blue line would be your flip line and the other your D-ring. To adjust it you have to turn your hip in and pull it out or push it in.
> I worked doing timber removal many year ago and that was the only method any one one the mountain used. Doesn't work to good with 1/2 in. Braided line. Placeing a cable in 3strand is a neet trick and easy to do. I'll explane how if anyone is interested.



If you wouldn't mind explaining how to put a cable in 3 strand i would be interested in learning how to


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## beastmaster (Aug 17, 2016)

stihl076 said:


> If you wouldn't mind explaining how to put a cable in 3 strand i would be interested in learning how to


Ill try to explain. I'm out of town right now or I'd make a a short video, but its easy. 
You need the cable attached to the clip and the end made into a small loop. You'll have to braid a loop through the clip with the rope.
First put the clip in a vice. Hold rope up to cable. Wrap cable around rope maybe four times following the strands. Pull cable tight, push rope forward. It'll seat its self in side rope. Repeat as needed. It's that easy. When done braid a çrown knot over loop in cable. 
If rope get wore out, cable be reused over and over so long as its in good condition.


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## ksvanbrunt (Aug 17, 2016)

BIG shot and SRT with a base anchor. Climb to the top from there then work your way down. Why spike a live tree?


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## northmanlogging (Aug 17, 2016)

trespassing a bit...

anyway wespur still has wire core manilla flip line, fairly long too.

learned using the cats paw and what seemed like 80' of manilla flip line... was super sketchy

adding a hip prusick is much safer and easier to use.

also the cats paw was not tied to the D ring but the eye end of the flip line was strung through the belt, you then tied off on the eye. todays modern saddles make this bit redundant 

this is completely my own experience and im sure others would disagree.

barring all of the above 3 strand manilla rope is available at nearly every hardware store ever, and long slicing some 5/16 aircraft cable in should be fairly straight forward.

then personally i would make a splice on the end rather then trusting any hand crimp. the bonus being that you could splice both the rope and the wire. plus a splice is always stronger then a crimp.

seems like the first set i used the eye was the wired into one of the D rings to help keep it put... all leather belt, cotton stitching, leather leg straps broken aluminium shin pad... carpet fer padding... good times


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## 2dogs (Aug 21, 2016)

ksvanbrunt said:


> BIG shot and SRT with a base anchor. Climb to the top from there then work your way down. Why spike a live tree?


 
I agree but these trees have bark 4" thick. No real chance to reach the cambium layer. The trees have way to many branches to be able to shoot the line very high. I always use the Big Shot while Cody is gearing up but it is rare to be able to hit a viable branch higher than 20-30 feet above ground. These trees may have 30 dead branches to get past to hit a green one or even a dead branch close to the trunk.


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## ksvanbrunt (Aug 21, 2016)

Doug firs that size gotta have some pretty large limbs. That is the beauty of a basal tie is you don't have to isolate a limb. You should be able to get a line set at 70-80 feet fairly easily. Once at that height he could climb to the top from there. Would be just like a latter but staying tied in. As far as spikes, the bark may be 4" thick at the base but it will thin out pretty quickly as he ascends. Food for thought and each spike wound will take away that thick protection and minimize it down closer to 2" at the base. Preserve the trees man, these beetles are freaking greedy!


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## northmanlogging (Aug 21, 2016)

them large limbs arn't as large as one would think, coastal firs tend to grow close together so most of the lower limbs are going to be dead, im just guessing a bit but trees that size probably won't have decent limbs for at least 50' probably closer to 70' couple that with a close canopy and getting a throw bag through becomes problematic


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## northmanlogging (Aug 21, 2016)

also the bark will stay thick up to the first greenish branches from there it starts thinning


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## stihl076 (Aug 25, 2016)

beastmaster said:


> Ill try to explain. I'm out of town right now or I'd make a a short video, but its easy.
> You need the cable attached to the clip and the end made into a small loop. You'll have to braid a loop through the clip with the rope.
> First put the clip in a vice. Hold rope up to cable. Wrap cable around rope maybe four times following the strands. Pull cable tight, push rope forward. It'll seat its self in side rope. Repeat as needed. It's that easy. When done braid a çrown knot over loop in cable.
> If rope get wore out, cable be reused over and over so long as its in good condition.


 thanks for the info ill give it a try one of these days


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## stihl076 (Aug 25, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> trespassing a bit...
> 
> anyway wespur still has wire core manilla flip line, fairly long too.
> 
> ...



Do you have a picture of that rig? that would be interesting to see


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## northmanlogging (Aug 25, 2016)

its my uncles gear ptobably still has it if it hasn't rotted to nothing. last time i used it was propably 10 years ago... i was worried... even after changing out a bunch of straps


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## Rick Hammer (Apr 16, 2019)

beastmaster said:


> We use to make our own long flip lines way back when. I still prefer the homemade ones for big trees. I think the extra weight of 3/4" 3 strand makes it easier to whip it around a large diameter tree. It's pretty simple to put cable in three strand rope. Splicing three strand is a peice of cake too.
> We use to us the suicide knot. The becket bend i think is its real name. We used it exclusivily for years. Despite the name its a safe knot to use on a 3 strand lanyard


Same here.Used to use the same thing, 3 strand Manilla Always loved the manilla fliplines cable core.They were stiff and rolled real good up the redwoods and big firs.The becket is all i ever used.Started in the 70s and that was what we were taught,never ever had a problem with the becket ,and used it for many years.Three strand was easy to braid,I use to just call it the flipline knot.started using 5/8 arbor braid, cable core in later years.My tree work now is pruning my apple trees LOL


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