# footlock climbing shoes



## kurtztree (Sep 10, 2003)

What type and brand of shoes do you use for the footlock climbing technique? My logger boots dont work to well. Trying to get away from old guy climbing.


----------



## BigJohn (Sep 10, 2003)

I found that the Merrel hiking boot wooks the best. The bottom of the shoe consists of small oval shaped hollowed out "lugs".


----------



## tshanefreeman (Sep 10, 2003)

I've found that the deeper the heel ............. the better the bite when you lock the rope over your boot. My current boots are made by Terra and consist of a synthetic material instead of leather. I can't remember the name of the material at present, but if I do, I will add it to the discussion. The rougher texture definitely aids in the gripping of the rope.

Some prefer to use soft soled runners or hikers ............... I've found that the softer the sole the harder the climb is on your legs. I won't wear anything unless it has steel plates!

Yet, at the end of the day, the final choice is yours.


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 10, 2003)

For me, I have found that I hiker style boot works well. The boot style that has a slight curve in front of the heel for your spikes ( removals only ). For me, too much heel allows the rope to fall thru when you step the other foot on top.


----------



## NeTree (Sep 11, 2003)

I like the $20 wal-mart hiking boots for limbwalking and footlocking. The cheaper boots have a more flexible sole and seem to grip the rope better than any other boots I've used. But that's just my personal preferance. Whatever feels and works best for you might be alot different.


----------



## njarbor (Sep 11, 2003)

i disagree with tshanefreeman, i usually wear chippewa logging boots when im in a tree and they have quite a heel on them . the problem is that you cant get any bite on the rope when you are trying to footlock . it may work for some but not for me . i need semi flat hiking boots . doesnt really matter cus i never footlock on the job. not that good at it yet


----------



## jblimbwalker (Sep 11, 2003)

Footlocking fast and effeciently in loggers is possible. When my boss first started teaching me to foot lock he told me it would be impossible to learn with loggers. "You're gonna have to get some of those hiking type boots, or you'll never get it." Well, he was wrong. I did abandon the loggers for a day, resulting in a smashed toe while chipping brush. Threw those hikers in the closet and went back to my loggers (steel shank, steel toe, large heel). My footlock time is on par with my boss' when he was in jamborees and he was winning the FL event often. You can FL with loggers, don't let anyone tell you any different.


----------



## NeTree (Sep 11, 2003)

...allow me to add that my hikers have STEEL TOES...


----------



## timberfell (Sep 11, 2003)

I am using Lowa Renegade hiking boots for FL. They have a standard hiking sole. They work well for me. www.sierratradingpost.com sells them.

I have seen a few guys that can footlock with a logger heel but I can't do it well enough to justify it myself. 

I do however put my Red Wing loggers on when I have to wear my spikes.

Kurt


----------



## MasterBlaster (Sep 11, 2003)

Footlock???


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 11, 2003)

My boot decision looks at all day comfort and ankle support too. Wear potential is a big thing too.

I like mountain/hikers because of their design for durability and comfort. I've got a few sore toes over the years, but nothing seriouse.

I'm in a $189 pair of REI SpiritII with gortex lining, which is great for rain and days with heavy dew.

At least for me I've found that the cheaper boots don't work as well for limbwalks and such where a better gripping sole is needed. I know some guys who wear rock shoes on trim jobs. Does not sound comfortable to me.


----------



## Tree Machine (Sep 11, 2003)

Yea, what JP said. All-day comfort since they're the only piece of gear you'll own that's in use before you leave the house until after you get home.

I've been taking pictures of my climbing boots for several years now, new, and then fully blown-out. I keep track of how long they last, what parts of the boot fails first and the plusses and minusses of that model. In seeking out a new pair, I try to find something better than the last pair, but at this point in time, 13 pairs later, I'm at an impasse. I feel with all my heart, that the ultimate tree climbing boot has yet to be developed. I've had some really good ones, and I understand what features rock my world, but 'really good' is as far as I've gotten.

I like, and will continue to use, mountain boots, mainly because of availability. Any one of us can find em at the local sporting goods stores. I can't mail order them because I need to put them on, test their fit, roll to test ankle support, twist them to feel lateral torsion and wear them to 'feel' the softness / hardness of the sole rubber.

I go through two to three pair a year - an expensive habit- but some day a GREAT boot will be developed and it'll utilize kevlar thread, or something and maybe I can get a full year out of them, which would make my wife (and me) very happy.

The images are of new boots. Upper left, no depth to the sole contour in front of the heel. Didn't make the cut. Upper right boot, the sole rubber was very firm, almost hard. Knew from experience that was not helpful. Bottom boot, the winner, that particular day. Good ankle support (extremely important in my case), nice rounded contour of the sole arch in front of the heel. Deep enough for that occasional spike application. Nice, medium-soft rubber compound, grippy on inclined limbs and really good for footlocking. The sole is molded around a fiberglass plate that goes toe-to-heel, allowing me to step into a tight V-crotch and not cup around and crush my foot from the sides.

This particular pair, the Salomon STF6 GTX, were good enough for me to feel like it raised my climbing ability a notch. Problem is, they only lasted 4 months. Regardless, I bought a second pair after I blew the first ones to shreds because they climbed _so exceptionally well_ and were very comfortable after I abused them a couple weeks through wet and dry, and then put a gel-sole foot bed in em.

I moved onto a set of Vasques after that that were really good, but not really, REALLY good. They held up for 6 months, though, which is pretty good for me. Right now I'm back in Salomons, an expensive GoreTex model, but they've been much worse than I could have imagined, in a number of ways. I am less of a climber now than I was a pair ago. -TM-


----------



## Tree Machine (Sep 11, 2003)

*Footwear for the trees.*

Ooops. Forgot to drop in the image. -TM-


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 11, 2003)

Oh and I've talked to a number of people who spend full days in gaffs, and many really like ice boots, like LaSportiva, Since they are designed for people with money to spend long hours in cleats. Even at $350, I'm told they are well worth it.

I'm not in gaffs that much any more myself.


----------



## MasterBlaster (Sep 11, 2003)

The Commander, from Wal-Mart, $40. Traction for trims, and thick soled for spurs. I've got them on here.....


----------



## jamie (Sep 11, 2003)

*jimbojj*

this might sound really stupid but not many folk wear steel capped boots for work, i was assuming that stateside would be similar to here where PPE is the name of teh game, ive not climbed much at work (still the novice) but id prefer doing all my work knowing that should i cock up things are going to be ok in my saw boots, (sthil concepts i think, they are comfy enough and the boss recomends them) (well more ok than they would if i was wearing my hiking boots)

jamie


----------



## MasterBlaster (Sep 11, 2003)

Jamie, if their steel they can pinch you toes off- really. No sh!t.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 11, 2003)

That's a myth, the crip and chop thing. 

Besides, a smaller force then a crimping from on the toe will crush. 

much worse then a cut.


----------



## murphy4trees (Sep 11, 2003)

I recently bought a pair of Mirrell's on Big Jon's recommendation. Paid 115 at REI. Then he gave me a footlocking lesson... I can do it, but have yet to develop the finess that makes it seem like a good way to get up a tree... There is something about walking up a 40' ladder on belay, that seems so much more attractive than the physical "hard" work of footlocking... And for the really tall ones nothing beats watching Big Jon do the footlocking... I guess that's kind of a cop-out and I just take my time getting into new techniques sometimes... I'll get around to more footlocking practice...
Anyhow the Mirrell's have a great feel both walking and climbing... They do great in spikes too... The metal lace holder got tweaked on the first day out and I have yet too straighten it out... patient on that too... They seem to get snagged and tweaked fairly regularly...


----------



## tjk (Sep 12, 2003)

I,m wearing a pair of Nike ACG Cindercones for pruning. They are by far the highest performing boot for climbing. For removals I wear a pair of Lowa ATC. They are light, durable and are firm in the arch. I,ve been on the boot hunt for years these two boots are best I've found.


----------



## timberfell (Sep 12, 2003)

Here are my Lowa's. Great FL boot.

Kurt


----------



## timberfell (Sep 12, 2003)

That's way too big try this.


----------



## timberfell (Sep 12, 2003)

Here they are in action.

Kurt


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by tjk _
> *I,m wearing a pair of Nike ACG Cindercones for pruning. *



Tod, how are they as far as "scree catchers"? The only kvetch I have on the rec boots I've been trying is that they funnel sawdust inside. I've actually developed some callusing on the top of my ankles from this  

Not too comfortable. When doing al lot of cahinsaw work, Ive taken to wearing hiking gators to keep the crap out of my boots.


----------



## tjk (Sep 13, 2003)

I do bring home a bit of company saw dust. I only wear them pruning so its not too bad. My lowa are for removals and ground work and they come up higher about 6"


----------



## MasterBlaster (Sep 13, 2003)

I gave up half-boots years ago, I got tired of bringing home sawdust every night.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 13, 2003)

Tod, you should a scheduled the Devils lake climb a few weeks earlier.

It rained last year too 

Been getting steady drizzle since yesterday afternoon with a few spates of heavy rain. 

Woulda been mizzzzerable tent weather.

So if we have a dorught next year, just shcedule the climb to bring hte rain on in.


----------



## Tree Machine (Sep 14, 2003)

*Sawdust down the front of the boots*



> The only kvetch I have on the rec boots I've been trying is that they funnel sawdust inside



That used to annoy the crap out of the Tree Machine, too, but I found a really simple solution. -TM-


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 14, 2003)

I cant help it with the floods. They dont make heavy work pants in my inseam. 

Outseam/rise are things I only dream about, even in casual clothes.

I'm on the verge of looking for a custom fabricator so that I can have something comfortable that my shirts will stay tucked inot and will cover my boot tops when I bend my leg 

Usually is sucks being big.

No, the big & fat stores dont have anything for the likes of me. Too tall and not round enough.

Even if I sewed a button hole over that neat little fix, I would just end up ripping the hem of my pants.


----------



## Tree Machine (Sep 14, 2003)

*Bad sawdust.. BAD !*

Sawdust down the front of my boot really used to annoy me.. wait, here ya go TREETX The Tree Machine has always been really perturbed about sawdust funnelling down the inside tongue of his boots. Here's another way he's combatted the situation (see image)

He normally wears a 32" inseam, but now The Tree Machine goes to the thrift store to buy work pants and has begun buying the longer 34" length. This allows the thrifty shopper treeguy to put a short split up both the inside and outside of his pant cuff seams, thus allowing him to have greater covering over the top of his boots.


----------



## MasterBlaster (Sep 14, 2003)

The Commander, from WallyWorld.

NO sawdust.


----------



## TREETX (Sep 14, 2003)

The Treetx uses long bootcut jeans ($20 oldnavy). They are super comfy. Don't see how some of the people climb or do anything in (W)Stranglers.

I think Treetx's next work pants will be a little more compliant with that whole, "No loose clothing" rule. That rule is a gray area though.


----------



## timberfell (Sep 14, 2003)

Those bootcut jeans are like bellbottoms aren't they?  

That makes for a hip tree climber.


----------



## Tree Machine (Sep 14, 2003)

*Your words are true*

The Tree Machine agrees with the loose fit ethic of the TREETX, but the Tree Machine's trou's cost about three bucks.

I think it would be really hard to go to a boot manufacturer and say "Hey, we as an industry want you to produce the ultimate climbing boot." What is good for one guy is not for another. Plus they would have to distribute them through mail order, website and tradeshows, or as special order through sporting goods. Logistically, sounds like a lot of work to sell a few pairs.

In next image I had come off a glorious 5 month stint with a set of Vasques. I went to get another pair because they were really blown out, but had served me well, and my size was not to be had. So I decided to go Salomon again as they had been exceptional climbers, though with a short working life.

I went out and tortured the new boots, the newest model Salomon Goretex, just as I had been doing with the Vasques and as you'll see from the pic, they tortured me back. But the story doesn't stop there. Days later, working in the Summer heat, ankle sweat.. owwwww, I was wearing the boots loose. I turned quickly to do something, rolled my ankle and was out of work a week. By the time I got done paying the acupuncturist, and all the time off, mid-season, I realized that these boots had just cost me my ass. -TM-


----------



## TREETX (Sep 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by timberfell _
> *Those bootcut jeans are like bellbottoms aren't they? *



A bit I suppose but that lets them stack on the ground instead of around your ankle. They button below your hip bones which leaves more room for my sadddle around my hips. 



> *That makes for a hip tree climber. *



It ain't easy being cool but I manage.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 14, 2003)

Now sew some elastic into that fancy little slit you've cut...

Still need to find something in a 38-40 inseam


----------



## TREETX (Sep 25, 2003)

Just ordered some nike cinder cones for $75. I'll be sure to give a review on then in reguards to how they footlock.

Footlocking is essential to my climbing style. In the last few days I have had to remove just one small broken limb from a tree 30-40 feet up. I set my line and then footlock up, flip in, cut, put my fig 8 on, and burn down.

Hopefully the cinder cones will help with the footlocking.

Glad I am working tommorrow so I won't be buying more stuff.


----------



## tjk (Sep 25, 2003)

I've been climbing with those shoes for about a mouth they are a very very very good investment they almost footlock them selves.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 26, 2003)

If they only came in high-tops 

I just bought another ics block, a 6ft jamison pole so I can have a 12 footer to shoot from, another carabiner, and 5 pairs of Wigwam Ultramax socks.

I was not working today <g>.


----------



## Gord (Sep 26, 2003)

back to the earlier part of the discussion, heels vs flat soles, the flat soles allow you to lock the rope in the arch of your foot rather than pinch it with your toes (as you must with if your boots have heels on them). flat soles require much less effort to FL with.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 26, 2003)

I agree. I tried footlocking with logger boots and couldn't get a lock.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 28, 2003)

I tried walking in logger boots and could not get 10 feet.


----------



## murphy4trees (Sep 28, 2003)

I saw Big Jon footlock in loggers the other day so it can be done.... Actually no problem.... looked smooth and easy.... I wasn't watching carefully, so its tough to say for sure..... He appeared to use the center of the front edge of the heal to bite down on the rope....


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 29, 2003)

Good footlockers always make it look easy.
It seems like you would need to concentrate on exactly where the rope was on your boot each time you lock. With flat soles you just lock away.


----------



## TREETX (Sep 29, 2003)

Just got my Cinder cones in the mail. Super comfy for typing on a key board. I'll let you know how they foot lock - going back out to work now.

Looking at having some other boots customized. Maybe here http://rubberroomresoles.com/index.htm


----------



## TREETX (Sep 29, 2003)

*A little more educated opinion.....*

Now that I have footlocked in the Cinder Cones, I give em a thumbs up. By far the best footlocking shoe I have worn. 

If you have that whole machismo thing going and think everyone who wears less than knee high wesco's is a PXXXY (little kitty kat). Then these are not for you.

They are more of a float like a butterfly, sting like a bee shoe!!

Maybe I mean float with a Butterfly sting with a Zubat......


(_I can footlock faster in these shoes, but I can also footlock in about any boot. Just don't want anyone to think that they a silver bullet if you have problems footlocking at all_)

Did I mention they are just plain comfy???


----------



## TREETX (Oct 1, 2003)

Cinder cones in action


----------



## Tree Machine (Oct 1, 2003)

I'm intrigued. If you were to jam your foot down into a sharp v-crotch, are they gonna crush your foot and get it stuck so you can't pull it out, or do they have a fiberglass or steel torsion plate in the sole to keep it stiff? Can they be comfortable on your feet all day? Is there any ankle support at all? They look like they can grip on a 45 degree bark incline, but can they?

I can footlock in slippers or tin pails, and I footlock alot, however, footlocking, timewise is maybe 1/200th of my day. The rest of the time I'm climbing or just being mobile on my feet. How are they, day after day_all day_. How are they on wet surfaces and in a wet tree? 

More info on their performance! -TM-


----------



## TREETX (Oct 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tree Machine _
> *I can footlock in slippers or tin pails, and I footlock alot, however, footlocking, timewise is maybe 1/200th of my day. *



I hear you there. What really is the difference between a 20 second FL and a 30 sec FL?? Wow, 10 sec of a day?? The difference is probably in just a few seconds. 

I have only worn them working twice now. I rotate between boots depending upon job. 

That have some but little ankle support. I don't wan't/need it in a tree if I am rocking around a huge tree pruning. I would rather float around. Wouldn't want to go jogging in knee high Wescos?? If I am doing a removal and in the same place longer, support is welcome. If I am hiking in a yard all day movin brush, I want ankle support.

I have climbed in sneakers before. These are MUCh stiffer. Don't know what the shank is. Not steel. Why would you want that Lots of lighter, strong materials.

The soles are Vibrams. That should say a lot, the same ones they put on high tech hikers and work boots......

I'll let you know how they perform over time.

I like having many tools and many options in my tool box. That goes from chain saws, gear, ropes, handsaws, saddles, tress cords,....., boots,.......... If I wanted a one size fits all, I would just buy one pair of boots from walmart and climb with a rope and a snap......


----------



## TREETX (Nov 5, 2003)

Still giving the Cinder Cones a thumbs up. Great in the tree and on the ground. Some of the best shoes I have owned. Regrets - I didn't buy 2 pair.

But.......I used them with hooks on today. They fit very good with spikes and are good for spiking. The thumbs down came soon. About cut number 3 and feet were hurting. The shank/sole is not stiff enough. But the 5th chunck I would have confessed to about anything.

They are great for day to day climbing as long as that doesn't involve spikes.


----------



## tjk (Nov 5, 2003)

I "ve had mine for about 2 months longer than you and are holding up just fine. For me thay make footlocking easier much more surface friction which releases the body tension. While moving around the tree your foot work will change. these boots are way more sensitive and you can feel small features like little bumps that you can put all of you weight on and use your legs, and this compliments modern climbing tools and techniques. If you had a big stiff boot you can not even feel the small fearures so you can not use them and you will be pulling more with your arms. For those of you with rock climbing experience you will know what I mean.


----------



## Bradley (Nov 8, 2003)

On the steel toe myth, a friend and I did some impromptu testing of a steel toed firefighting boot last week. The front tire of an 80,000lb ladder truck did not deform it. I cut the steel toe out of the boot and put it on the concrete floor. 10 strikes with a 28 ounce Eastwing hammer did nothing but scratch it. 5 strikes with a 12 pound sledge only brought the top down by 1/4 -5/16ths of an inch, and it did this by spreading the sides of the cap apart. The caps are usually rated by Ansi for a 75 pound impact. If a steel toe is going to cut someones toes off, then their whole leg is probably going to be taken off as well. Steel toes have saved my feet more times than I can recall. The myths about them are wive's tales made up by workers trying to justify to their bosses why they don't need them. Everyone has heard of the chopped off toes tale but where are all of the toeless folks as evidence? I cannot find anything about it in any accident data.


----------

