# Yarding Pictures



## slowp

Yarding is getting started. Here's a downhill operation on pretty flat ground. It still makes for a bit of hopping about on the landing. The chaser and I discussed locking the yarder engineer in his cab, but we wisely did not follow through.





Here's the rigging crew at work.


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## slowp

I had to go down and paint (approve) the tailhold. This is a new hooktender to me, and he doesn't cut down so many trees so maybe we'll get along. 
Instead, he does this, or just puts twisters on standing trees. I've never seen this done.










Name this splice.


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## Rookie1

Very cool pics. Thanks for taking the time to put them on here.


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## Adkpk

Rookie1 said:


> Very cool pics. Thanks for taking the time to put them on here.



Like he said. Thanks slowp.


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## 056 kid

Them boys is fallin tooth pics!


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## Humptulips

Slowp,
What kind of carriage is that? Hard to see but it doesn't look familiar.

In the first picture of your second post not sure what I'm looking at.

What kind of splice? Just looks like an eye splice to me. I usually tuck the core with the 4th strand but tucking it last is OK too. Makes a little more work but holds fine.


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## slowp

Humptulips said:


> Slowp,
> What kind of carriage is that? Hard to see but it doesn't look familiar.
> 
> In the first picture of your second post not sure what I'm looking at.
> 
> What kind of splice? Just looks like an eye splice to me. I usually tuck the core with the 4th strand but tucking it last is OK too. Makes a little more work but holds fine.



The carriage is a motorized Maki, made in Idaho and was brand new last year.
The other picture is of the end of the log brace.

Oh, and the hooktender pointed out that I had worked with his mother at one time.


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## Ed*L

Great pics!
I wouldn't have expected to find a yarder working in the woods like that.
It probably is the best way to remove the logs while keeping forest damage to a minimum.  

Ed <--------never gets to see stuff like that.


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## redwood logger

Yikes! it sucks to be them! down hilling-thinning-motorized carriage! It couldn't get much worse then that! clear cut and burn, the only way to log!


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## slowp

But wait, there's going to be worse. Another outfit will be downhilling on "the 3 ibuprofen unit". The top is 90% slope and I had to pummy crawl up to mark trees to make a bigger landing so the logs won't be so inclined to slam hard into the yarder.
That'll be upcoming.


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## redwood logger

Twisters are a hooktenders best friend! I hook a swing yarder and use them all the time. You should post a good picture of one, that is something everyone needs to know how to do. People do them all different ways, it would be cool to see how he does it. I have used a clump of a half dozen Christmas trees tied off to other Christmas trees for a tail hold. I have never had one fail, but if it does, my mechanical danebo carriage is indestructible!


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## Humptulips

redwood logger said:


> Twisters are a hooktenders best friend! I hook a swing yarder and use them all the time. You should post a good picture of one, that is something everyone needs to know how to do. People do them all different ways, it would be cool to see how he does it. I have used a clump of a half dozen Christmas trees tied off to other Christmas trees for a tail hold. I have never had one fail, but if it does, my mechanical danebo carriage is indestructible!



I've put lots of twisters up and I have to say not my best friend. I know you have to use them but it is so nice to break out into some stumps that don't need them. Also not bad on stumps but on standing trees makes for a lot of work. I used a cats paw to hook the ends of the section together rather then choking the stump with one end and a timber hitch at the other. If you are using hooks in your wire there is a way to put a cats paw in the middle of a section to the #####. Not sure I can explain it but saves some work at times.

I see the technical term for the eye and hook combination on the end of the strawline has been zapped above.

A swing yarder and a mechanical carriage. I feel for you buddy. That combination equals about double the work for the hooktender. Them things are terrible hard on lines too. You get good at splicing working on them. That'd for sure!

That down hill thinning must be terrible for tree damage when thinning especially the steeper slopes.


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## hammerlogging

Is there by any chance a relationship between the economic conditions and the associated effects on logging and an increased prevalence to putting loggers on really crappy (i.e. challenging) tracts?


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## slowp

hammerlogging said:


> Is there by any chance a relationship between the economic conditions and the associated effects on logging and an increased prevalence to putting loggers on really crappy (i.e. challenging) tracts?



No, but there is a relationship between the purging of foresters from an agency and the replacement by 'ologists on a timber sale planning team.
The timber on the really steep ground is pretty good and the volume per acre is a lot better than the newer sales being put up for sale. 

The downhill in the picture did get skinned up quite badly. The fallers laid out the trees bass ackwards and well, I won't say anymore. The really steep sale is being logged by a company that is good to work for, and has very good people. They did about the same amount of damage to the downhill portion as they would to an uphill yarded unit last year which was not much. I hope they have as good a crew this year. 

Due to the pumice in the soil, sometimes twisters are used to reinforce twisters. And most guys have "a hooktender who can climb." The latter seems to be getting rarer.


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## hammerlogging

Right, lets manage some ground thats unproductive.

I was asking because paper mills are known to pull that when someone needs wood.


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## Bushler

"No, but there is a relationship between the purging of foresters from an agency and the replacement by 'ologists on a timber sale planning team."

That right there speaks volumns. Those 'ologists should be the ones doing the cutting and setting babbit.

One important part of the equation lost on many is the efficiency ratio. Logs are low value/weight ratio commodity that needs to be cost effective to harvest and transport.

So much value is lost, 'making it harder' there's no wonder we're going backward.


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## redwood logger

The mechanical carriage- running sky line set up, could possibly be a little more work for the hooktender, but in my opinion the most productive for logging our short (restrickted) units here in CA. I think the motorized carriage would be ideal for skidding distances over 1,500 feet.

I agree about the climbing, I do climb, but most the other hooktenders around these parts don't. Years ago when i was a rigging slinger, my hooktender never pulled hay wire far enough to get any lift, so we would ground pound the log out! Then i learned to climb and he had me rigging lift trees for every road line. I knew it wasn't always neccesary but, I got paid extra for it and he was the boss. So up I went. I have rigged lift trees for many years, and never topped one. Why do they do that up north? I am one of only a few climbers I know that still climb with chain. I started out with a nice rope set up, then I had to rigg a 10 ft old growth redwood for a lift tree, and my rope was too short to make it around the tree. So I rigged up with 40 ft of chain and up i went. I discovered it was much more user friendly then the rope and never looked back. I know its goofy, but its what I like.


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## slowp

The tree topping is explained this way. As you know, there's a lot of stress on the lift or tail tree when rigged up high onthe tree. They take the top off to get rid of some of the weight, which if left would cause the tree to sway more and loosen up. That would make it more likely to fail. I guess to really prove this, you'd need an engineer to work out the forces and stresses involved. It sounds logical to me.


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## Humptulips

redwood logger said:


> The mechanical carriage- running sky line set up, could possibly be a little more work for the hooktender, but in my opinion the most productive for logging our short (restrickted) units here in CA. I think the motorized carriage would be ideal for skidding distances over 1,500 feet.
> 
> I agree about the climbing, I do climb, but most the other hooktenders around these parts don't. Years ago when i was a rigging slinger, my hooktender never pulled hay wire far enough to get any lift, so we would ground pound the log out! Then i learned to climb and he had me rigging lift trees for every road line. I knew it wasn't always neccesary but, I got paid extra for it and he was the boss. So up I went. I have rigged lift trees for many years, and never topped one. Why do they do that up north? I am one of only a few climbers I know that still climb with chain. I started out with a nice rope set up, then I had to rigg a 10 ft old growth redwood for a lift tree, and my rope was too short to make it around the tree. So I rigged up with 40 ft of chain and up i went. I discovered it was much more user friendly then the rope and never looked back. I know its goofy, but its what I like.



I have to say more then just a little extra work. First there is twice as much strawline to string for your layout. Second more blocks. I always hung two blocks in tail trees and tried for two tail blocks but sometimes one and they are haul back blocks so heavier then the tommys you can use when putting a skyline out. Worked on two swing yaders and we had 15 inch youngs for tail blocks and 13 inch youngs for tree blocks. Then add in tree guylines and straps and you're looking at a lot of riggin to pack aroud. Very seldom did we get a road where you could get by without a tail tree. IMHO you have to have lift if you're to get any prodution. Then there is the splicing. It was a rare day when I didn't have to splice at least one eye.Very hard on the haul back too. Haulbacks seemed to only last 8 or 9 months and that is with several upends and a number of long splices towards the end of their life.

Been my experience the running skyline just as hard on stumps as a standing skyline so just as much need for twisters. Only difference more tail stumps so more twisters.

Give me a standing skyline anyday. A tommy for a tranfer block, one leg of stawline for the layout and if you have to rig a tail tree only one block.
Too each his own I guess.

Never saw anyone use a chain for climbing. Biggest tail tree I ever rigged was a 10 foot fir. Have to agree with you about topping the tail trees. Not very often I ever topped them. Sometimes they need it but mostly not.


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## redwood logger

You have some good points there. I don't understand the one leg of haywire thing, how does that work? I don't pull haywire from the landing to often. Lucky for me the company I work for only does clear cut logging, so most of the time I can get away with making the hook up right by the tail and flying the haywire with the rigging. That way I only have to pull two real short legs of haywire. One major advantage I would like about the standing skyline set up, would be not needing to clean under the tail block during fire season.


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## Humptulips

redwood logger said:


> You have some good points there. I don't understand the one leg of haywire thing, how does that work? I don't pull haywire from the landing to often. Lucky for me the company I work for only does clear cut logging, so most of the time I can get away with making the hook up right by the tail and flying the haywire with the rigging. That way I only have to pull two real short legs of haywire. One major advantage I would like about the standing skyline set up, would be not needing to clean under the tail block during fire season.



What I mean by one leg of strawline. I usually left my transfer out so maybe only set its back line up every few days. You know well every situation different so that's pretty general.

I know in clearcuts you're flying the lines over but usually more to string then if you only had the waste line and the road line to string. It's really bad on those running skyline rigs when thinning. You have to string both sides of the layout all the way to the landing, ouch!

Another way I used to handle the backline when thinning was to string it on the road ahead. When the road was changed you can leave it lay and it works for your road line on the next change. You're always stringing wire two roads ahead. Last road you get to flop over so you get a break. You usually end up spending it nothching stumps for the next setting. A hooks work is never done!
Around where I have worked never used the term running skyline. Always called them tension skidders or just a grapple yarder. It's really just a grabinski.

What kind of machine you work on? I worked on a Skagit PSY200 about 25 years ago and a Thunderbird (forget the number) more recently.

I got a bad scare while working on that Thunderbird. I was standing beside the mainline drum watching it because the engineer was worried about wear on the end of the line when boom. We broke both gantry straps. Down she come. Nothing touched me but it put the fear of god in me. We had new straps with Ds and the line shop neglected to clean the acid off the line before pouring the babbit. Corroded them just inside the D where you couldn't see. 4 months old when they broke.


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## slowp

That happened with an ancient yarder here. I was on the landing along with other people. BAM, the tube(not really one but more crane like) falls down and the skyline hits the ground. The guy running it just had his son out that day, and said his son was either dead or had messed his pants. He hollered and his son was ok.
He welded on some more reinforcement. I'll get some pictures if he ever gets the thing going this year. It is an old Skagit and runs on gas.


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## PB

slowp said:


> No, but there is a relationship between the purging of foresters from an agency and the replacement by '*ologists *on a timber sale planning team.



Should I be insulted?


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## Bushler

Was that an SJ-4 Skagit? What an abortion, I actually ran one for couple months. The guy line drum dogs are on the bottom of the drum, and the springs that hold them in place don't last long. Once you get the machine in a good pull the dogs fall out and the machine tips over on its beak.


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## Gologit

PlantBiologist said:


> Should I be insulted?



Not unless you want to be. Go weed your potatoes and check back later.


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## slowp

The ancient Skagit is yellow, has a separate area for driving it up or down the road, and a yarder cab. All I can tell you is that it is yellow, probably 1950's vintage, maybe 60's, and runs on gasoline, not diesel. I don't even recall how many drums. It does have a neat Jetson style chair in the cab. Looked last time like the windows were vandalized. Maybe I'll get up there tomorrow with my camera. 

The story is that it started out as the current owner's father's machine. It then made the rounds of the local loggers and ended up in a field, covered in blackberries. MMMMM, those are going to be ripe soon...oops. The current owner salvaged it and got it running and used it a little. He plans to use it again this year. What I've seen is that it is broke down about the same amount of time as it runs. He uses a Christy carriage with it.


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## redlaker

so what exactly is haywire? I use the term about 10 times a day to describe any practice at work that I consider crazy or irresponsible, or really unsafe.

example. holy **** man, that rigging is ****ing HAYWIRE!!!

or 

I don't know if I want to work with that guy he is HAYWIRE as all ****


OK thats a little haywire, hopefully we don't get killed


I dont work in the logging industry so I guess it has a different meaning there..


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## Humptulips

redlaker said:


> so what exactly is haywire? I use the term about 10 times a day to describe any practice at work that I consider crazy or irresponsible, or really unsafe.
> 
> example. holy **** man, that rigging is ****ing HAYWIRE!!!
> 
> or
> 
> I don't know if I want to work with that guy he is HAYWIRE as all ****
> 
> 
> OK thats a little haywire, hopefully we don't get killed
> 
> 
> I dont work in the logging industry so I guess it has a different meaning there..



Haywire means the same thing here used as an adjective. When used as a noun it indicates small cable 1/4" to 1/2" used to pull the bigger lines around. You can string the smaller stuff by hand and use it to pull the skyline out or the haulback around. It's also called strawline.


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## Humptulips

slowp said:


> The ancient Skagit is yellow, has a separate area for driving it up or down the road, and a yarder cab. All I can tell you is that it is yellow, probably 1950's vintage, maybe 60's, and runs on gasoline, not diesel. I don't even recall how many drums. It does have a neat Jetson style chair in the cab. Looked last time like the windows were vandalized. Maybe I'll get up there tomorrow with my camera.
> 
> The story is that it started out as the current owner's father's machine. It then made the rounds of the local loggers and ended up in a field, covered in blackberries. MMMMM, those are going to be ripe soon...oops. The current owner salvaged it and got it running and used it a little. He plans to use it again this year. What I've seen is that it is broke down about the same amount of time as it runs. He uses a Christy carriage with it.



More then likely a tracloader. Could be an SJ4. I don't think they made any of the tension skidders in the 50s. Yellow indicates a vintage too old for a tension skidder. I think they were all blue and white. Obsolete about 30 years ago.


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## Bushler

Haywire, strawline, guinea line. 7/16, 3/8, 5/16 Seems like what I remember.

Bet that old yarder is an S-J 4, worlds worse except for the worst of all, Coos King. Look behind the seat and see if my old caulks and rain coat is still there.

We're talking old. I set tongs and loaded logs with S-J4 and S-J5 both. The 5 was an upgraded machine and had a nice diesel engine. Both had mechanical frictions and were great for killing birds and squirrels with the butt rigging.


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## Bushler

Two drums and a niggerhead if I remember correctly. The 5 might have had a third drum...the 4 I ran was old and worn out, I think I worked on it in 1970 for Christopherson of Cedro Wolley. They had a contract with BPA to clear right of way from Bandon to Gold Beach, OR.

As you drive down highway 101 between Bandon and Gold Beach you can see some of the tower sights I did. The steep ones we couldn't use the cats and skidders on we did with the SJ-4

I hated it. I finally just quit and wouldn't run it anymore, and they put me on the cutting crew. I liked that.


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## PB

Gologit said:


> Not unless you want to be. Go weed your potatoes and check back later.



It's raking blueberries this time of year.


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## Zodiac45

PlantBiologist said:


> It's raking blueberries this time of year.



Sure is and they're looking great this year!


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## PB

Zodiac45 said:


> Sure is and they're looking great this year!



I am hauling blueberries starting Thurs. morning for a produce company. I am not getting paid from school until Sept. so this is a good fill in. I should get all the blueberries I want, if I don't pick them in the woods first. Up to my neck in berries. They are paying me way too much money to drive a truck. 

Sorry, back to yarding.


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## slowp

I did not get close to that old yarder today. One of those days 
Markers not marking, which holds me up, which holds up cutting, which rolls on..found a spring in a unit, more road construction than planned, and a lot of this is "I told you so." which I did during the planning stage. 2.3 years to go....nobody to whine to but the dog. OK, now I'm fine.


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## Humptulips

Bushler said:


> Haywire, strawline, guinea line. 7/16, 3/8, 5/16 Seems like what I remember.
> 
> Bet that old yarder is an S-J 4, worlds worse except for the worst of all, Coos King. Look behind the seat and see if my old caulks and rain coat is still there.
> 
> We're talking old. I set tongs and loaded logs with S-J4 and S-J5 both. The 5 was an upgraded machine and had a nice diesel engine. Both had mechanical frictions and were great for killing birds and squirrels with the butt rigging.



Maybe not the worst. Ever see an SJ-3.


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## Bushler

Can't remember ever seeing an SJ-3. The 5 I worked on was fitted with drums from an SJ-7 I think. It was good enough for what we were using it for. The engineer was too old though, and couldn't hold the haul back brake tight, when his leg would get tired he just lift his foot...and the haulback drum would free spool and snarl line down around the heffer shaft.

The third time he did it I not only kicked my hat, but stomped it flat, threatend to kick everyones ass and left mad on a truck.


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## Humptulips

Bushler said:


> Can't remember ever seeing an SJ-3. The 5 I worked on was fitted with drums from an SJ-7 I think. It was good enough for what we were using it for. The engineer was too old though, and couldn't hold the haul back brake tight, when his leg would get tired he just lift his foot...and the haulback drum would free spool and snarl line down around the heffer shaft.
> 
> The third time he did it I not only kicked my hat, but stomped it flat, threatend to kick everyones ass and left mad on a truck.



SJ-3s only had about a 220 degree swing. No air either as I recall. probably like a 4 but limited swing.


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## slowp

And I still didn't make it up there!  It is like I really need to now. It is like a game...
GUESS THE MYSTERY YARDER


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## slowp

*Skagit SJ-4F*

Bushler guessed the yarder! Congratulations.















Tomorrow, I hope to get a restored 1940 yarder on here. Stay tuned.


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## Bushler

She's a dandy, for sure! If they get it fired up you gotta try it out. Trying to remember the config. of the controls, knee throttle left side? Hand frictions and foot brakes.

Were my old caulks and rain coat behind the seat?

Brings a shudder, remembering back then, thanks for posting the pics. I'm older than that machine, and look about the same condition.


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## slowp

It was in use 2 years ago. Something blew on the "drive" up the road to the next unit so they had to tow it. Meanwhile, it has been sitting and had the glass broken out, looks like more stuffing pulled out of the "driver" seat, and somebody stole a block. When the owner first checked on it this Spring, he was touring on his cat in the snow and the snow level was up to the deck. We'll see if he can get it going again. It seemed to be broke down as much as it ran the last time. I think, if he continues to work, he'll be ready next month to give it a go.


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## Bushler

Looking forward to the pics of the '40's era machine. My property was logged for the PO cedar about then, and the doug fir in the early 50's. Mostly by Cat's, but I have one old yarder setting. They even left one intact guyline w/spikes, on a fir stump.

A week ago I noticed a fir stump that had a strap notch cut high for a corner or tail block, so I'm assuming the yarder was used in the 50's, and the cedar was logged with a cat.

Every so often I run across an artifact. I have old cat choker with a square bell, broken hand saw, spikes, old cable, etc.

And of course, the RD-4 Cat. I actually remember seeing the RD run when I was in grade school.


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## redwood logger

Humptulips said:


> What I mean by one leg of strawline. I usually left my transfer out so maybe only set its back line up every few days. You know well every situation different so that's pretty general.
> 
> I know in clearcuts you're flying the lines over but usually more to string then if you only had the waste line and the road line to string. It's really bad on those running skyline rigs when thinning. You have to string both sides of the layout all the way to the landing, ouch!
> 
> Another way I used to handle the backline when thinning was to string it on the road ahead. When the road was changed you can leave it lay and it works for your road line on the next change. You're always stringing wire two roads ahead. Last road you get to flop over so you get a break. You usually end up spending it nothching stumps for the next setting. A hooks work is never done!
> Around where I have worked never used the term running skyline. Always called them tension skidders or just a grapple yarder. It's really just a grabinski.
> 
> What kind of machine you work on? I worked on a Skagit PSY200 about 25 years ago and a Thunderbird (forget the number) more recently.
> 
> I got a bad scare while working on that Thunderbird. I was standing beside the mainline drum watching it because the engineer was worried about wear on the end of the line when boom. We broke both gantry straps. Down she come. Nothing touched me but it put the fear of god in me. We had new straps with Ds and the line shop neglected to clean the acid off the line before pouring the babbit. Corroded them just inside the D where you couldn't see. 4 months old when they broke.




I started out with a thunderbird 355. then a edco mustang, then a thunderbird 255 and for the last 4 years its been a washington 1118, this is a machine that was redone by pacific manufacturing years ago. All I have ever used is the running skyline set up. I should not bad mouth motorized carriages until I get a chance to try them out for my self some day. All the guys I have ever worked with that had used them had nothing good to say about them. They do sound like less work for the hook, and that is plus in my opinion. That would give me more time to work on the riggin, what i like doing the most. Since I have not worked on one, all the waste line, back line, flopping , stuff makes no sense to me. I will have to do some research.

The gantry straps are about the only thing I havent seen break yet. Recently we came real close to going over when a guy line block(guy lines with block on them suck) broke under a fairly hard pull. Turns out there was a old crack on the inside of the cheek plate where you could not see it, and it finally developed. so we took the other blocks apart and found more cracks in the same spots (skookum blocks) I really miss the block free guy lines on the thunderbirds.
The idea of only having to hang one block for a lift tree sounds too good to be true! I remember the first lift tree I ever rigged, I had to hang two 15'' blocks, because thats all we had. I cant count the days I almost quit when I was a rookie tree climber! The worst day was when I derigged one tree and was dragging a strap and carrying a block to the next tree (still in my belt and spurs to save time) and fell off the down hill side of a old growth log, through a oak top, and landed with my spur stuck in my leg (redwood spur) Like a typical logger I choose not to look at it, ignore the pain and rigg the next lift tree. I suffered later for that stupid move! Now I take my spurs off.


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## redwood logger

*old yarders*

It is a real shame to see old yarders in my neck of the woods being hauled off for scrap steel. I would have one sitting in the front yard if the wife would go for it!


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## Gologit

*Hey Slowp*



slowp said:


> It was in use 2 years ago. Something blew on the "drive" up the road to the next unit so they had to tow it. Meanwhile, it has been sitting and had the glass broken out, looks like more stuffing pulled out of the "driver" seat, and somebody stole a block. When the owner first checked on it this Spring, he was touring on his cat in the snow and the snow level was up to the deck. We'll see if he can get it going again. It seemed to be broke down as much as it ran the last time. I think, if he continues to work, he'll be ready next month to give it a go.



That machine would look good in the big meadow at Bookerdog's place. How far from where it is now to Booker"s?


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## slowp

Gologit said:


> That machine would look good in the big meadow at Bookerdog's place. How far from where it is now to Booker"s?



Well, I'm thinking we could outlaw it over the backroads. The snow is gone.
I don't have anything that'll pull it, well, maybe my used dog. He's pretty strong.


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## slowp

OK, here's a Skagit that I understand was "donated" to the school about 25 years ago. These local boys spied it and took it on as a project. They just got done in time for Jubilee. Too bad they couldn't have had the Woods Logging line truck spool on some line. You'll notice it has no tube. It is from the 1940s and one had to rig a tree or cut a tree for a spar. They had the whistle working and threw candy along the parade route. The boys are probably itching to rig it up.


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> Well, I'm thinking we could outlaw it over the backroads. The snow is gone.
> I don't have anything that'll pull it, well, maybe my used dog. He's pretty strong.



Towing it probably wouldn't be a major problem. Holding it back on the downhill might be interesting, though. Especially if it's not running and there's no brakes and you're towing with a line.  

Maybe rig up a solid tow-bar or an A-frame...and hope the tow rig has good brakes.


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## sILlogger

well i've gotta say something for you PNW'ers....when it comes to logging you've got it made...the history, the "brotherhood", the pride in the job, making a respectable living through hard work, and the antique equipment is something that isn't in other parts or the U.S. around here loggers are considered "culls" historically most of them only worked enough to buy their booze and drugs, and the ones that work at it to make a living are almost outcast from society because most people can't understand that type of labor. 

so if u didn't know it already enjoy what you have and appreciate it.


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## Humptulips

redwood logger said:


> It is a real shame to see old yarders in my neck of the woods being hauled off for scrap steel. I would have one sitting in the front yard if the wife would go for it!



I see better machines then that being cut up for scrap every day. Recently with the price of scrap they are walking equipment right off the lowboy to be cut up. That's right still running. I expect there won't be many old yarders left in the near future if not already.

I know there were a bunch of old yarders sitting up on the Clearwater. All gone now. One I worked on had an alder about a foot through growing up between the drums last time I saw it. It was a big machine. No use for them kind now. I remember the haulback drum would spool 10,000 feet of inch haulback. Skyline drum 4,800 feet of 1 1/2. 199 Skagit


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## 056 kid

Sorry sILlogger, Your gonna hate me for this. I am gettin outa here in a 1 or 2 months just as soon as i sever my unwanted ties with the local authorities. Goin to see dad in La Grande Oregon where my skills, style,and technique can be appreciated and the trees are TREES!!
(&# @%# ^+(*&? (*^[email protected]# $%^&* I wish i had never left!!!!!!!!!!
I also really miss my saws and heaters that i left with dad!
I want to try and settle in BC before everything is done with, Awesome Big trees(timber) and awesome little trees(the refer!!!) HEAVEN:jester:


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## 056 kid

Has anyone ever herd of or worked with a madill with serial#5225(i think thats the serial) With a 6-71 in her and a 50 foot tower.


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## sILlogger

056 kid said:


> Sorry sILlogger, Your gonna hate me for this. I am gettin outa here in a 1 or 2 months just as soon as i sever my unwanted ties with the local authorities. Goin to see dad in La Grande Oregon where my skills, style,and technique can be appreciated and the trees are TREES!!
> (&# @%# ^+(*&? (*^[email protected]# $%^&* I wish i had never left!!!!!!!!!!
> I also really miss my saws and heaters that i left with dad!
> I want to try and settle in BC before everything is done with, Awesome Big trees(timber) and awesome little trees(the refer!!!) HEAVEN:jester:



ha...no hate needed..i'm seriously thinking about heading out of here myself. i've got one years of school left(forestry degree) and them im wanting to save up some money and head out of here. i'd ideally like to get certified in BC and cut timber up there. but im' not sure how the immigration paperwork works just yet. either way i would like to work in the pnw region for a few year. NORCal, Oregon, Washington, BC, or SE AL something allow those lines. I know i would like it and i would just like to be able to say that i did it. i can come back here and work at any time that i want to


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## redwood logger

Humptulips said:


> I see better machines then that being cut up for scrap every day. Recently with the price of scrap they are walking equipment right off the lowboy to be cut up. That's right still running. I expect there won't be many old yarders left in the near future if not already.
> 
> I know there were a bunch of old yarders sitting up on the Clearwater. All gone now. One I worked on had an alder about a foot through growing up between the drums last time I saw it. It was a big machine. No use for them kind now. I remember the haulback drum would spool 10,000 feet of inch haulback. Skyline drum 4,800 feet of 1 1/2. 199 Skagit



Wow! that is a big yarder. What is the longest layout you have ever strung? The most I have ever had out was 6,000 ft of running skyline.(3,000 ft from yarder to tail hold) I ran two tail blocks in the back end, about 10 ft apart to keep false wraps to a minimum.


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## Humptulips

Those long skylines, you usually work into them so you don't have to make such a big layout at once. Several times though I have had out more then a mile of skyline. The longest yarding was probably a tad over 3,000 feet. On that show, before the days of motorized carriages, we were running a sucker block so we could make the roads last. We changed roads once every two weeks. From the back end it would take 15 minutes to yard a turn and the machine was pretty fast. One of those big ones like a 199 can take a half load at a turn if the wood's thick. Something like that you have to have an exceptional tailhold stump and then you tie it back six ways to sunday. I think I had 8 twisters on one once.


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## Humptulips

Here's a picture of a long skyline about a mile. That's a 98 skagit, 110 foot tube. It don't look like much but it's a ways off. That little patch of timber you see is actually some pretty big stuff. I remeber there were some 6 and 8 foot ceadr in there but mostly 3 and 4 foot hemlock.


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## Bushler

Laird had a BU99 (I think that was the model) Skagit rigged at Lobster Creek, (Rogue trib.) on setting a mile from tower to tail tree. I didn't work on it, but friends told me about it.

They flew their haywire with a copter.

Here's a good story. Laird was tired of paying the crew a couple hours walk out time, so he had a cage built the crew could ride in off the rigging. After a skyline change, they were riding the cage out when the skyline cleared up.

The 'snap' sent the cage of over the top of the skyline with the crew (and Shirly Laird) inside! They did a 'round the world' over the top of the skyline.

Only injury was a smashed finger, one of the crew had his hand poking thorugh the cage and got it crushed by contact with the skyline.

I worked for a half day on a BU99 for Hale Logging up Elk river, we were out four thousand feet rigged North Bend style (side blocking off the skyline), and pulled the machine down and broke it bad.

The yarder frame broke in two between the hoist and the tower, and the tube went over the landing and looked like a Z.

No one was hurt.


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## slowp

Wow. I hope there was a road at the end? The downhill settings that will take place this week, will start at the short end and then move up the road as the hill gets longer and steeper. Then they don't have to pack so much line UP the 3 ibuprofen hill at once. But it is pretty short compared to that picture.


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## Bushler

In 1973 I bought a commercial fish boat and ran off to sea, only worked in the woods intermittantly after that when the fish didn't bite....but those were the glory days of big yarders.

After Hales BU 99 crashed they set up a View Sparmatic to clean up...the crew reported it took them 7 turns to pull the logs out of the chokers set on the turn that pulled the 99 down.

North Bend rigging is like a compound bow. There's nowhere for the rigging crew to hide or get in the clear...we were inside the layout when the tower went down...the whip that was thrown in the skyline would bring the carriage right up the hill at us...then the chokers would come tight and stop the carriage before it hit us. It was rude.


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## redwood logger

I love a good wagon wheel setting, they look so good from the road. I was blown away when I was up in the grays harbor area on vacation a few years ago. all the huge clear cuts in oregon and washington. We are so restricted down here in CA. the units are much smaller and anything that might run water in the middle of winter is considered a creek, with trees left to shade the frogs and such. My wife and I loved the area up there. We stayed at a B&B in Hoquim when we were up there, i think it was called the Hoquim castle. A big red and white place, an old lumber barons house back in the day. I love all the logging history up there and people are really into it. Around here logging is a bad word, thanks to Maxxam coming in and stirring things up in the late 80's

Would it be hard to find year round work up in the grays harbor area if a person has some experience? What kind of hourly rate could be expected for a rigging slinger for example? Are there any companies with good benefits.


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## slowp

redwood logger said:


> I love a good wagon wheel setting, they look so good from the road. I was blown away when I was up in the grays harbor area on vacation a few years ago. all the huge clear cuts in oregon and washington. We are so restricted down here in CA. the units are much smaller and anything that might run water in the middle of winter is considered a creek, with trees left to shade the frogs and such. My wife and I loved the area up there. We stayed at a B&B in Hoquim when we were up there, i think it was called the Hoquim castle. A big red and white place, an old lumber barons house back in the day. I love all the logging history up there and people are really into it. Around here logging is a bad word, thanks to Maxxam coming in and stirring things up in the late 80's
> 
> Would it be hard to find year round work up in the grays harbor area if a person has some experience? What kind of hourly rate could be expected for a rigging slinger for example? Are there any companies with good benefits.



Logging is not considered very nicely by the folks who are moving into our areas to retire or have second homes, or by the folks who live in the cities. After last year's front page picture of slides on a clearcut, and blaming it for the flooding, I expect things will be regulated even more here. 

Notice that my pictures are all in thinning units. I have no idea if those units will ever be entered again. All that is said is that we need to thin to speed up the growth of the stand so it will have old growth characteristics. And Old Growth *sized* timber is off limits to logging at this time on FS land. You figure it out?


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## redwood logger

slowp said:


> Logging is not considered very nicely by the folks who are moving into our areas to retire or have second homes, or by the folks who live in the cities. After last year's front page picture of slides on a clearcut, and blaming it for the flooding, I expect things will be regulated even more here.
> 
> Notice that my pictures are all in thinning units. I have no idea if those units will ever be entered again. All that is said is that we need to thin to speed up the growth of the stand so it will have old growth characteristics. And Old Growth *sized* timber is off limits to logging at this time on FS land. You figure it out?



The last big thinning I worked in we were days from being done when we had a big storm and half the trees that were left blew over. So after 5 months of logging we started over and logged it all again! I have also thinned units only to drive by a couple years later and see that they came back and clear cut it already! I dont try to make sense of it all anymore.


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## slowp

It doesn't tend to blow over as much here. But I don't get a straight answer from the people who should know more when I ask about the future plans for the stands we are thinning. I got a bit blunt with the environmental group woman, who wouldn't answer. I don't think they want me to go out with their group anymore. :greenchainsaw:


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## 1I'dJak

you guys down south don't seem to use much grapple yarders eh? mostly chokers from what i see...those trees and that land look like it could be hoe chucked...less and less grapple yarding here...hoe chuckers and snorkels where they can get away with them...crews are alot smaller than they used to be...in sayward bc there's an awesome pic of a guy being towed across a lake on waterskiis by the yarder....


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## slowp

Any units over 30% slope go cable or helicopter. That's just here on National Forest. Then there's two sales with some pretty flat ground but a judge ruled no ground based equipment. Then, there's some really flat ground but we aren't allowed to fix the road so they are helicopter. It's a mad world here.


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## redwood logger

1I'dJak said:


> you guys down south don't seem to use much grapple yarders eh? mostly chokers from what i see...those trees and that land look like it could be hoe chucked...less and less grapple yarding here...hoe chuckers and snorkels where they can get away with them...crews are alot smaller than they used to be...in sayward bc there's an awesome pic of a guy being towed across a lake on waterskiis by the yarder....



The company I work for did lots or grapple yarding in years past, but don't anymore because it got harder with tighter restrictions, more creek buffers and extremly limited use of mobile tail hold equipment. I think we need to give it another try, with it becoming impossible to find enough good help to put together a full yarder crew that might be a good option. I have only done it on one occasion, but it was way cool!


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> Any units over 30% slope go cable or helicopter. That's just here on National Forest. Then there's two sales with some pretty flat ground but a judge ruled no ground based equipment. Then, there's some really flat ground but we aren't allowed to fix the road so they are helicopter. It's a mad world here.



LOL. I like these posts because they really point out the difference between logging government ground and logging private ground.

Slowp, your 'ologists would probably go into cardiac arrest if they saw some of the steep ground we Cat log. The only time we use a yarder or a helicopter is if there just isn't any other choice and the value of the timber makes it worth it.

And roads? If there's an existing road, or even one from long ago, chances are real good that we'll fix it and use it.

Every time you post some of this stuff I can really understand your level of frustration. I don't envy you trying to exist in a world that replaces common sense with environmental fads.


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## clearance

Gologit said:


> Every time you post some of this stuff I can really understand your level of frustration. I don't envy you trying to exist in a world that replaces common sense with environmental fads.



Yep, and political correctness, and giult, and lies, and so on. It annoys the hell out of me that loggers are considered bad by so many. They did the most to build this province, most roads the treehuggers drive down to go on a protest was made by a D-8. With a logger running it.


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## slowp

The head of our forest environmental group is rather angry right now. Due to all the fires, we have to drastically cut projects and there won't be any funding for contracts to do lovely things like decommission roads. The Oregonian paper had an article about it. It was briefly mentioned that in the past, the Forest Service could dip into the vast pool of money generated by timber sales. Now that doesn't exist.


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## Bushler

That vast pool is also what funded our schools.

I absolutely hate GreenPeople.

Part of the reason the Fed timber sales in the sixties were almost lost leaders was because of the expense of the extensive road net work we built to engineered standards.

Now they de-commision the roads so the fires can burn the timber better and contribute to the 'global warming' issue.

Now I'm upset again. I think I'll go kill something with a gun. That usually makes me feel better.


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## Humptulips

I worked on a BU99A. They are a big machine but smaller drums then the BU199. Dahlgren has a or had a much bigger machine, never worked on it but I think a Burger. When I saw it they had 1 3/4 skyline and were yarding about 4000 feet.

Busheler is right about the North Bend system. Gets pretty dicey if you break something. I've had a lot of close ones with North bend, South Bend and sucker block set ups especially the sucker block set ups. It is just impossible to get out of the bight.

Worked on a big Madill 046 slackline. That had a oddball brake system on the skyline drum. Most dangerous machine I ever worked on. Two guys killed when the skyline broke while Northbending just before I went to work there. We had so many close calls. Damn thing should have been re tagged.


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> It was briefly mentioned that in the past, the Forest Service could dip into the vast pool of money generated by timber sales. Now that doesn't exist.



Well, imagine that!! Talk about not missing your water 'til your well runs dry.

Tell you what, when you get ready to pull the pin with the Green Machine I'll send you an employment app. The way we're buying ground up there you might not even have to relocate. 

If nothing else, most of what we do would make sense to you...it's all about production.


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## myrtle

Gologit said:


> LOL. I like these posts because they really point out the difference between logging government ground and logging private ground.
> 
> Slowp, your 'ologists would probably go into cardiac arrest if they saw some of the steep ground we Cat log. The only time we use a yarder or a helicopter is if there just isn't any other choice and the value of the timber makes it worth it.
> 
> And roads? If there's an existing road, or even one from long ago, chances are real good that we'll fix it and use it.
> 
> Every time you post some of this stuff I can really understand your level of frustration. I don't envy you trying to exist in a world that replaces common sense with environmental fads.




I can agree to this as a Humboldt County transplant in Oregon. When I started working here I got looks of horror when I asked why we couldn't just send in the Cat instead of all the short downhill cable yarding we inevitably rope into our timber sales. CAT is a four letter word to most 'ologists that I have had to deal with. 

Here is my addition to the ancient iron collection.... An old converted Lima line shovel. The logger spent the winter swapin' in bigger drums, splicing in additional 5' to the boom, and giving her a fresh coat of paint. He's 78 and likes to tell me about how he used to use this shovel to load trucks with all the 6 footers from the same ground we are now thinning. He was running a Washington TL-6 Trakloader until spring when he scrapped it for more than he bought it for a few years back.


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## slowp

Yes, the old grapple shovels. They were still commonly used here in the eighties, when I was starting to learn about logging and contracts. They handled the big wood for the 3-8 log loads. I had a guy swing a log over my head once. He knew where I was too. I would chew him out big time now but I was a 20 something and was a bit intimidated. Later, he killed a guy.


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## E&A QCI

*Sj-4*



Humptulips said:


> SJ-3s only had about a 220 degree swing. No air either as I recall. probably like a 4 but limited swing.



The SJ-4 had only 180 degree swing. The SJ-4 R and SJ-4R-T were 360 degree swing.


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## slowp

*The Last Easy Setup*

This is the last of the easy logging for the Madill. Tomorrow, they will be rigging up for downhilling. I must return in the morning and hike up the hill to paint some anchor trees so they can cut them. 

Here's the landing, they'll use it again for the last downhill setting. They're moving the yarder down the road where it is a shorter distance to carry haywire UP the hill for the first setting.






The crew in the brush. The slant cut on that log is so the crew will leave it out in the unit....lizard log, bug log, etc. 





Starting to put on new line. 





Note the casual dress code for hot weather.


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## Adkpk

Axemen. Looks like fun, not! Looks like fun but looks hard and tiring. Thanks for the pics.


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## 2dogs

What are the specs for a bug log and how many do you leave per acre? Around here we would need to leave hippy logs. The dirtier the better.


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## slowp

I have to look it up. I'll also have to walk through with somebody while they dump the trees after yarding. It is in the contract as cubic feet and has a minimum size. One unit had so much blowdown on it from before logging that if we dumped new trees, it would be a clearcut. That brings up another point, often, the wind supplies enough bug trees after the logging.


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## 2dogs

slowp said:


> I have to look it up. I'll also have to walk through with somebody while they dump the trees after yarding. It is in the contract as cubic feet and has a minimum size. One unit had so much blowdown on it from before logging that if we dumped new trees, it would be a clearcut. That brings up another point, often, the wind supplies enough bug trees after the logging.



Thanks.


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## slowp

And it was so hot that I came home a bit groggy and I did not look it up. I'm home with the fan going and I'm swilling non-alcoholic liquids like crazy.


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## 2dogs

slowp said:


> And it was so hot that I came home a bit groggy and I did not look it up. I'm home with the fan going and I'm swilling non-alcoholic liquids like crazy.



Quite all right. I went with the boss today to bid another euc job. More steep slopes and many large trees. We would like to leave some of the largest as wildlife trees and also drop a few big ones for slugbug habitat. What size should a bug log be?

The ground is steeper than it looks. The big tree on the left is about 18" DBH.






There are some fine millable trees if we could find someone who wants eucalyptus. I will probably mill up some 2x6s for coral boards. Anything that fits through the chipper will be chipped and spread. The biggest tree is about 22"DBH.





Then there are some very big trees.


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## slowp

Bugs like big logs. The bigger the better and they all like root wads attached if possible. That's why pulled over trees make for good bug logs. The minimum size is 10" on the small end, and I'm thinking 10 feet in length. I really need to read up on this. The apres logging part of a sale is my least favorite. It requires a lot of prodding on my part. Today I need to be out and see about line stringing across a major creek. Last year it was a different plan then the rigging crew had a personnel change and the current crew says no lift with the original plan. Hot today too. 

I'm thinking you should import some cute pandas.


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## 2dogs

slowp said:


> Bugs like big logs. The bigger the better and they all like root wads attached if possible. That's why pulled over trees make for good bug logs. The minimum size is 10" on the small end, and I'm thinking 10 feet in length. I really need to read up on this. The apres logging part of a sale is my least favorite. It requires a lot of prodding on my part. Today I need to be out and see about line stringing across a major creek. Last year it was a different plan then the rigging crew had a personnel change and the current crew says no lift with the original plan. Hot today too.
> 
> I'm thinking you should import some cute pandas.



Thanks for the info. I doubt we could pull over any of these trees. I was hoping to leave some of the biggest butt logs as bug logs. How many per acre is the question. Also, do you have to leave buffer trees around the wildlife trees?

BTW... NO PANDAS! We have enough trouble with non-native species without importing a bunch of tree rodents. Besides pandas attract hippies.


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## slowp

The lizard logs work out to about 2 per acre. Nope. No buffer trees unless it is what they call an old growth _Legacy Log_ which is an old cull log that was left in the woods when the old growth was logged. Then a buffer is put around it, and no falling or yarding through the area. There's one where a landing should be put, and the enviros wanted the operator to move it, except it is so punky that it is going to fall apart. 

In the newer contracts, the purchaser no longer has to leave the lizard/bug logs. If the sale sold for enough money, some is collected to hire a contractor to come in and dump trees. Wildlife handles that. They'll also do 
_snag creation_ and have a contractor top some trees. 

It is hotter here and I have to go to work for a while so cutters can work on Monday. I was talking to a logger about it, and told him I'm behind, have to work on Saturday, and no overtime cuz we're broke due to the fires. He basically said, welcome to the world of gyppo logging--behind in work, working on the weekend and being broke.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> It is hotter here and I have to go to work for a while so cutters can work on Monday. I was talking to a logger about it, and told him I'm behind, have to work on Saturday, and no overtime cuz we're broke due to the fires. He basically said, welcome to the world of gyppo logging--behind in work, working on the weekend and being broke.



Yup...Saturday is just the day to catch up on things you didn't get done Friday. And there's always something to do.

But Sunday? Nope. Even God took Sunday off. Of course, God didn't log. And if you didn't get finished Saturday with the stuff left over from Friday that piled up from Thursday and Wednesday and it's the only day the welder can come and there's a couple of machines due for oil changes and that new landing is still too small so you might as well punch it out a bit, and the water truck has a flat tire...well, maybe working Sunday is okay. If you get done by noon you might have time to catch up on some of the book work when you get home. :censored:


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## Bushler

Gologit just reminded me how much unfinished work I have. Nice weather here, mid 70's cooling morning fog to keep humidity high enough. Coastal zone.

I'd rather sit here reading and typing and drinking coffee....


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## slowp

I'm back. It is supposed to be 100 something degrees today. The sign said hootowl as of today. So, I went out and marked and cruised enough of the R/W so if it should rain and change the precaution level, the cutters will have something to keep themselves busy. I took the used dog along since it was Saturday, and I need to spend "quality time with him". He was excited and jumped in the pickup like it was a lowrider. Once we were out working, he whined quite a bit. But, this is spooky. A couple hours into the work, I asked him, "Are you thirsty?" and he barked back. He got some water for that. That was the excitement of the morning. It is feeling like morning in Willows, CA right now. TOO :censored: HOT.


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## hammerlogging

2dogs, I am most impressed with the work you are doing, and the yarder, and the multiple objectives service orientation of it all. I love harvesting big ol' timber fast, but that service work is admirable, and where I am looking otward. As for Sunday, yeah, got to finish marking a boundary for an absentee landowner, but family friend, somehow I've procrastinated this portion where there is a squatter's issue, possible meth lab, and multiple deer stands (uninvited). Rather unproductive land too, so not a lot of logging potential, which is of course what I am really in it for- and to help out with managing their land.


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## 2dogs

hammerlogging said:


> 2dogs, I am most impressed with the work you are doing, and the yarder, and the multiple objectives service orientation of it all. I love harvesting big ol' timber fast, but that service work is admirable, and where I am looking otward. As for Sunday, yeah, got to finish marking a boundary for an absentee landowner, but family friend, somehow I've procrastinated this portion where there is a squatter's issue, possible meth lab, and multiple deer stands (uninvited). Rather unproductive land too, so not a lot of logging potential, which is of course what I am really in it for- and to help out with managing their land.



Are you logging pines?


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## hammerlogging

all hardwood, except on the mentioned property, in the worst sites, some Virginia pine (not even accepted in the SYP- southern yellow pine) mixed with laural, wild blueberry, and mountain laurel. None of that land would be touched in any management prescription.


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## slowp

I am recuperating from getting soaked, even boots were squishy, after spending several hours hunting for helicopter units and then looking at stuff.
The units have thick huckleberry brush in and around them which is always pleasant to walk through on a wet, drizzly day--too warm for rain gear too.
Yup, after hitting 104 on Saturday, we have gone back to rain.

Anyway, last week, on a hot morning, after pucker sidling along a rock/vertical slope, I found a nice trail up to the road. It was an old fireline around an old unit. Up near the road were the old guyline stumps, and boy, did they ever spike the lines around it. The spikes are still in the stumps and here's a couple of pictures. It was early morning and darkish so the flash kind of washed out the pictures...my apologies.


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## slowp

slowp said:


> .



I am sad to report that it looks like the old beastie will not be operating anytime soon. The transmission is out. The logger is looking to buy a newer yarder and thinks he might have found one. He'll take the old one home to work on. Or it may end up as a blackberry trellis again.


----------



## RavensRoost

Bushler said:


> Two drums and a niggerhead if I remember correctly. The 5 might have had a third drum...the 4 I ran was old and worn out, I think I worked on it in 1970 for Christopherson of Cedro Wolley. They had a contract with BPA to clear right of way from Bandon to Gold Beach, OR.
> 
> As you drive down highway 101 between Bandon and Gold Beach you can see some of the tower sights I did. The steep ones we couldn't use the cats and skidders on we did with the SJ-4
> 
> I hated it. I finally just quit and wouldn't run it anymore, and they put me on the cutting crew. I liked that.



Bushler, would that have been Steve Christofferson? Was his neighbor in Clear Lake many years ago when we were both kids. (Clear Lake is between Sedro Wooley and Mount Vernon.)

RavensRoost


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## Humptulips

redwood logger said:


> I love a good wagon wheel setting, they look so good from the road. I was blown away when I was up in the grays harbor area on vacation a few years ago. all the huge clear cuts in oregon and washington. We are so restricted down here in CA. the units are much smaller and anything that might run water in the middle of winter is considered a creek, with trees left to shade the frogs and such. My wife and I loved the area up there. We stayed at a B&B in Hoquim when we were up there, i think it was called the Hoquim castle. A big red and white place, an old lumber barons house back in the day. I love all the logging history up there and people are really into it. Around here logging is a bad word, thanks to Maxxam coming in and stirring things up in the late 80's
> 
> Would it be hard to find year round work up in the grays harbor area if a person has some experience? What kind of hourly rate could be expected for a rigging slinger for example? Are there any companies with good benefits.



Sorry to tell you logging sucks in Grays Harbor. It would be real tough to find a good job. Gypos seem to be in a race to see who can go bankrupt first. Look else where as the economy is killing logging around here. If it weren't for the blowdown clean up from last winter it would be at a standstill.


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## slowp

I got offered a job as a chaser today. But I turned it down. I've been having problems this week with an annoying hangnail.


----------



## slowp

Gotta bump this. The old Skagit is partially rigged up. It has a replacement 1954 transmission in it. I marked the guyline trees today. Got a lesson on what things do, the throttle is run by a knee, brakes are well, where brakes are, and the levers to raise and lower the tower are run by the hands.


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## Adkpk

Great but I can't see it.:camera:


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## artie__bc

Nice gas fake, looks like a Ford flathead in it?




slowp said:


> OK, here's a Skagit that I understand was "donated" to the school about 25 years ago. These local boys spied it and took it on as a project. They just got done in time for Jubilee. Too bad they couldn't have had the Woods Logging line truck spool on some line. You'll notice it has no tube. It is from the 1940s and one had to rig a tree or cut a tree for a spar. They had the whistle working and threw candy along the parade route. The boys are probably itching to rig it up.


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## 2dogs

slowp said:


> I am recuperating from getting soaked, even boots were squishy, after spending several hours hunting for helicopter units and then looking at stuff.
> The units have thick huckleberry brush in and around them which is always pleasant to walk through on a wet, drizzly day--too warm for rain gear too.
> Yup, after hitting 104 on Saturday, we have gone back to rain.
> 
> Anyway, last week, on a hot morning, after pucker sidling along a rock/vertical slope, I found a nice trail up to the road. It was an old fireline around an old unit. Up near the road were the old guyline stumps, and boy, did they ever spike the lines around it. The spikes are still in the stumps and here's a couple of pictures. It was early morning and darkish so the flash kind of washed out the pictures...my apologies.



I imagine there is a way to put circles and arrows on these images but I don't know how. So I will try to ask some questions, tell me if they make sense. On the stumps there appears to be 2 lines of spikes, maybe more. Was a length of wire rope wrapped around more than one complete wrap ( a round turn)? What size rope was used back in the hayday of logging for the sky line and how long were the runs? How big was the typical tailhold stump? 

I ran across an old wheeled arch the other day, I'll try to get a pic up tomorrow. On one of the ranches we chase cows on there is an old tracked arch. If I dn't have a pic I will get one in the next week or so. In fact I may have a pic somewhere.


----------



## 2dogs

artie__bc said:


> Nice gas fake, looks like a Ford flathead in it?



There is a red block hanging on the yarder in the first image. I have been looking for one like it for "knot passing". Between those of us who work together we have quite a few snatch blocks and regular Skookum blocks but not a wide sheeve like that one. What are they called (i.e tailhold block) and how much is one worth. Do you know of one for sale?


----------



## ak4195

Humptulips said:


> Here's a picture of a long skyline about a mile. That's a 98 skagit, 110 foot tube. It don't look like much but it's a ways off. That little patch of timber you see is actually some pretty big stuff. I remeber there were some 6 and 8 foot ceadr in there but mostly 3 and 4 foot hemlock.



Dang! talk about friction and momentum to overcome

ak


----------



## Humptulips

About the stump: That's a typical guy line stump from the days of spar trees. Guy line would be tightened around stump and spiked with about 11 or 12 spikes on the first wrap. Depends on the length of the guyline, longer guyline takes more then shorter one. 2nd wrap put on tightened and 3 spikes to hold it. 3rd wrap put on and 8 spikes to hold and you're done. Stationary skylines take many more spikes, maybe 100+ and usually 4 wraps.

Guyline size would vary as to size of yarder but typical would be1 1/4" or 1 3/8". Skylines on a stationary skyline would be minimum 1 1/2" and run up to 2 1/8. Live skylines where there is some slipage don't have to be as big.

About the block: That block is a tommy moore block. I would think they would still make them but I would asume pretty spendy. I've used ones just like the one pictured for tree jacks. Tommy moores come in different sizes and manufactureres. I think that one was made by Skookum. They made heavy blocks. Out of business. You might try some logging supply shops and ask about used blocks.


----------



## 2dogs

Humptulips said:


> About the stump: That's a typical guy line stump from the days of spar trees. Guy line would be tightened around stump and spiked with about 11 or 12 spikes on the first wrap. Depends on the length of the guyline, longer guyline takes more then shorter one. 2nd wrap put on tightened and 3 spikes to hold it. 3rd wrap put on and 8 spikes to hold and you're done. Stationary skylines take many more spikes, maybe 100+ and usually 4 wraps.
> 
> Guyline size would vary as to size of yarder but typical would be1 1/4" or 1 3/8". Skylines on a stationary skyline would be minimum 1 1/2" and run up to 2 1/8. Live skylines where there is some slipage don't have to be as big.
> 
> About the block: That block is a tommy moore block. I would think they would still make them but I would asume pretty spendy. I've used ones just like the one pictured for tree jacks. Tommy moores come in different sizes and manufactureres. I think that one was made by Skookum. They made heavy blocks. Out of business. You might try some logging supply shops and ask about used blocks.



How many stumps were used to anchor a big spar tree?


----------



## ak4195

Those Cascade hills make my knees hurt just looking at the pictures,thats what 20+ yrs of halibut fishing and backcountry skiing will do to your most valuable joints i fear.I fear I have about only 10 yrs or so left in them here in these climes Im thinkin.

ak


----------



## slowp

Adkpk said:


> Great but I can't see it.:camera:



This one. It hasn't gone back to the blackberries quite yet. It has 3 guylines, one of which is siwashed for the first setting but most of the force will be on the other two. 





It'll be a two guy crew. They had some excellent smoked salmon up there yesterday. Yummy. And as for knees, mine have been scaring me lately.
The injured in a fourth grade skiing accident one kind of popped one day on the unit these guys will be on, and has felt like it is grinding on something. 
It has gotten better since I'm on flatter ground now.


----------



## Bushler

RavensRoost, yes, Steve Christopherson. He'd just returned from Nam where he served in the Special Forces. Was pretty gung ho. but not too savy about logging. I have a good story about him that I laugh about, but probably won't post on a public board.


----------



## Bushler

SlowP, look under the machine at the guy line drums and see if the dogs have fresh springs. Stay clear of the layout when the machine is under load becasue the dogs like to fall clear of the drums and free spool....when that happens the ol 4 will land on its beak.


----------



## slowp

Do the springs look like sprongy springs? I'll have to look. Here's what stops the Christy Carriage where it is wanted to stop. You have to lower the skyline, manually unclamp the stop, move it down the skyline to where you want the carriage to stop, then manually clamp it in place. In the forest engineering class, they call it a stop. In this neck of the woods, it is named after a part of male bovine anatomy. 




Here's the dreaded Christy carriage. Non mechanized. It slams into the stop and that pokes it hard enough to release whatever is holding the mainline so the rigging crew can pull out line to hook chokers to.




Here's the landing. Yarding might start tomorrow.


----------



## Humptulips

2dogs said:


> How many stumps were used to anchor a big spar tree?



High lead tree usually had 6 top guys and 3 buckle guys. Slackline might have 6 to 8 top guys, 4 or 5 snap guys and 3 buckle guys.

If you want to go way back before shovels they would also have loading guys. I've seen pictures of the big Tyler yarders rigged up with 36 guylines in a tree.


----------



## Humptulips

ak4195 said:


> Those Cascade hills make my knees hurt just looking at the pictures,thats what 20+ yrs of halibut fishing and backcountry skiing will do to your most valuable joints i fear.I fear I have about only 10 yrs or so left in them here in these climes Im thinkin.
> 
> ak



Actually, that picture was taken in the Olympics. Matheny Ridge to be precise and it gets much steeper then that.


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## ak4195

*"Olympic Hills!"*

I stand corrected,I remember soaking in a terrific hot springs a few hundred feet above the Elwah river yrs ago.Had the place to myself ,dime size rain drops smacking me in the forehead as I soaked in a 100+ degree wonderfull pool.

ak


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## RPM

Slowp.....I wouldn't have believed that ol piece of iron would be sitting on a landing and rigged up (in this century) and logging if you hadn't posted those pictures. I thought you were kidding a couple of posts back about someone actually running that thing.

I can tell my yarding contractor to stop his whinning about his hardly broken in Madill 120 (which is newer than my 4 yr old)!


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## slowp

RPM said:


> Slowp.....I wouldn't have believed that ol piece of iron would be sitting on a landing and rigged up (in this century) and logging if you hadn't posted those pictures. I thought you were kidding a couple of posts back about someone actually running that thing.
> 
> I can tell my yarding contractor to stop his whinning about his hardly broken in Madill 120 (which is newer than my 4 yr old)!



Yes, I took major pity, and after having them promise to shoot me and find a good home for my dog if I got hurt, I helped pull the line down the hill. They weren't using haywire either, because "We used to do it this way all the time."
That was what the guy uphill of me was saying. The guy who was downhill and younger was answering, "That was :censored: in the :censored: 18th century!:censored: :censored: :censored: . I was able to help out enough that the line made it to the tail tree. I didn't know how to coil it, since I was in the middle and pulling faster than the guy could wade down the hill, but didn't make a major mess. I just did it like a hose. It was to be rigged up today if the downhill guy showed up.


----------



## Bushler

Stand clear! Something will break....

Those ancient frictions are going to be 'grabby' and the rigging will probably kill squirrels and birds. When the machine starts bucking around is when you want to be clear of the guy lines and NEVER stand near the machine when its pulling hard.

I can almost smell the blow by from the gas pot.

I'm not normaly such a pessimist but even after all these years I still shudder when I think about running that contraption.

I'm betting it tips over if it doesn't break down first.


----------



## Roy M

Just read this thread from start to finish and thoroughly enjoyed it, especially the pictures. I have not been involved in a yarding operation so don't quite understand some of the terminology though. Did work in heli logging for a few years and that had it's moments.


----------



## slowp

Bushler said:


> Stand clear! Something will break....
> 
> Those ancient frictions are going to be 'grabby' and the rigging will probably kill squirrels and birds. When the machine starts bucking around is when you want to be clear of the guy lines and NEVER stand near the machine when its pulling hard.
> 
> I can almost smell the blow by from the gas pot.
> 
> I'm not normaly such a pessimist but even after all these years I still shudder when I think about running that contraption.
> 
> I'm betting it tips over if it doesn't break down first.



I already was around it when the air pressure went and the ?tube? slammed down along with the skyline. That was a couple years ago. He's welded some braces on it to hold that up. I stay clear unless things are stopped. The main thing I can see is that the owner/operator has a bad hip and knee.
He will be the yarder engineer, chaser and shovel operator. Last time it ran, it spent an equal or longer time broke down. We shall see. The owner is a guy who grew up in the logging business and knows what he does. He's also our second in line guy to call and hire to take down big old growth hazard trees when our guys don't want to do it. A very good faller.  Also, he hits right on with what the computer spits out. I'll run a profile and let the program figure out how high to hang in the tail tree, he'll park his shovel up on the landing with the boom up and will walk down, and figure out how high. He hits right on with what I get from the computer.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Do the springs look like sprongy springs? I'll have to look. Here's what stops the Christy Carriage where it is wanted to stop. You have to lower the skyline, manually unclamp the stop, move it down the skyline to where you want the carriage to stop, then manually clamp it in place. In the forest engineering class, they call it a stop. In this neck of the woods, it is named after a part of male bovine anatomy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the dreaded Christy carriage. Non mechanized. It slams into the stop and that pokes it hard enough to release whatever is holding the mainline so the rigging crew can pull out line to hook chokers to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the landing. Yarding might start tomorrow.



I hooked under a Christy carriage... And we used a stop almost like that one. The "Bull-Prick" was on the mainline though. It was slid over the mainline, and was essentially free floating, the end of the mainline had a t-bar to hook the ringed chokers. When the t-bar hit the BP, it slid up into the Christy, and disengaged the stop. Once the carriage was loose, up the "Set" went the logs. We also rarely used haywire for anything. We manually pulled the skyline to the hold tree. We were limited to 1,100 feet of yarding... But that's still a long way to walk back up to the yarder.

We always began each 'set', starting at the landing, and working downhill... While the fallers laid out starting from the bottom up. BTW, if you are wondering what a 'set' is... It's what you would probably call a road? I think?

Our yarder was a Linkbelt 98... similar to this one.


----------



## slowp

They got two turns yarded before breaking down. Here they are looking for an air leak. 




The guy in the middle is a visitor. I quote the yarder owner "He taught a dumb faller how to log and do thinnings." The yarder owner started out as a faller and worked a lot in the old growth. They located the air leak and were in the process of hooking a new hose up. Looked like the problem hose was an original part. They had the thing running when I drove up and it was backfiring something fierce. There probably aren't any elk within miles now.
Here's the yarder engineer/owner. The guy in raingear is his son.


----------



## Gologit

I like the front bumper on that service truck. You could HIT things with that.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> I like the front bumper on that service truck. You could HIT things with that.



And push. He has a compartment on the back that you could SLEEP in too.
It is a former railroad company truck. Gets better mileage than his Ford pickup.


----------



## slowp

The yarder was running yesterday. It really does rock like a teeter totter.
Still backfires and the drum brakes for the skyline were not holding very well.
The operator thought that was because they were wet. But, how did the brakes work then back when the thing was new? It rained here  in the 
1950's too, or so my mom told me.


----------



## Bushler

Yeah, the brakes. I think I mentioned that. They work like that when they're dry too. What is really annoying is when the haul back drum spins and throws a 'backlash' of line back up into the heffer shaft and everything grinds to a halt.

The only way to remove the haul back from the heffershaft is with a cutting torch.

Every turn they get to the landing is a triumph. Congratulate them for me.


----------



## slowp

They had some success at deer hunting and I think somebody, a grandson got an elk, so back to yarding. They were cleaning up the first corridor today and I marked some trees to cut for guylines on the next setting. Which poses the problem of how long will the yarder engineer/chaser/loader operator last on a (I can't think of the terminology suddenly) 2 level landing? Step landing. I'm suggesting he build a slide for getting down. Here's some actual turns coming in. The beast is still backfiring like crazy. 





Here's the chaser.




Another turn...cleanup.




Some modifications to the cab. I suggested duct tape to plug some holes in the new roof.





I walked over what they've logged and it looks darned good!


----------



## RPM

slowp said:


> They had some success at deer hunting and I think somebody, a grandson got an elk, so back to yarding. They were cleaning up the first corridor today and I marked some trees to cut for guylines on the next setting. Which poses the problem of how long will the yarder engineer/chaser/loader operator last on a (I can't think of the terminology suddenly) 2 level landing? Step landing. I'm suggesting he build a slide for getting down. Here's some actual turns coming in. The beast is still backfiring like crazy.



If I'm thinking of what you are describing....we call it a jump up landing. The yarder sits up higher, say above a road, and the logs are landed below.


----------



## Adkpk

slowp said:


> I walked over what they've logged and it looks darned good!



"Looks darned good", really. What looks darned good, nothing? :greenchainsaw: 

Slowp why the "no" in your sig?


----------



## slowp

Adkpk said:


> "Looks darned good", really. What looks darned good, nothing? :greenchainsaw:
> 
> Slowp why the "no" in your sig?



Answer to first part. Not much banging up and scarring of the leave trees.

Answer to the second part. I am what the loggers call "the forester" and I frequently have to say NO to their demands. Like, give us your paint gun and we'll make it into a clearcut...NO. Can't we just take the skidder down that 95% muddy slope and drag the logs down the creek......NO. If you'd let us
....NO. And so on.


----------



## Adkpk

slowp said:


> Answer to first part. Not much banging up and scarring of the leave trees.



So they just take pines or the trees that are left. 



slowp said:


> Answer to the second part. I am what the loggers call "the forester" and I frequently have to say NO to their demands. Like, give us your paint gun and we'll make it into a clearcut...NO. Can't we just take the skidder down that 95% muddy slope and drag the logs down the creek......NO. If you'd let us
> ....NO. And so on.



"The forester", I didn't see the "forester" in any Axemen episodes, I guess you just come at certain times or are you on the job most of the time? Sounds to me like they need you more than they think.


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## slowp

The pictures you'll see from me that are recent, are all in thinnings. Not a clearcut. The trees to cut are usually marked with paint, although sometimes the leave trees are marked. So, these guys have to go in and work around other trees, trying to get the cut trees on the ground without banging up the leave trees. Then, you bring lines, which need to run straight, down the hill and yard trees across the hill to the corridor where they switch direction more and go up, and there's more chance for the leave trees to get knocked over or badly scarred. It takes a bit more effort than you saw on Axemen to do this. Winter is a good time to be yarding because the bark is tight. Late Spring is the worst, the sap is rising and the bark sloughs off easily. 

Nope, they didn't have much about foresters on Axemen and that's probably a good thing. When it looked like they were going to film here, I was planning on hiding out. I did want to see their production though.

I'm either not on the job enough or when I find a bad thing, too much. I am told I'm unusual, I prefer the woods to the office so I'm out every day pretty much. Thinnings take a lot more time than clearcuts for us too.

We're pretty much considered a nuisance. The only piece of equipment I'm an expert with is my paintgun. It creates oohs and ahhs when I paint a tree and then the question of, "Can we have it?" To which the answer is .... 

 NO.


----------



## Adkpk

Do you have a pic of what the hill looks like after a select cut? It does sound like a whole other ball game with leaving trees. I am sure your popular on the hill. :greenchainsaw: 

I have talked to a few property owners in the Adirondacks and all said the same thing. You really need to be specific about the trees to be cut and the trees to left and always the loggers will take a few trees they were told not too.

I should look up a forester and cruise my place with him just to get an idea of my options and what would be best for the life of the healthier younger trees. What do they charge to come out for a day?


----------



## Burvol

My Dad has a skagit just like that one.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Answer to first part. Not much banging up and scarring of the leave trees.
> 
> Answer to the second part. I am what the loggers call "the forester" and I frequently have to say NO to their demands. Like, give us your paint gun and we'll make it into a clearcut...NO. Can't we just take the skidder down that 95% muddy slope and drag the logs down the creek......NO. If you'd let us
> ....NO. And so on.



LOL...I like that NO in your signature. Maybe I'll change mine to "Well, it wouldn't hurt anything if we..." or maybe "I didn't see anything about that in the THP". And there's always, "Okay boys, as soon as she's gone we'll...." The foresters I work with don't usually say NO. They're more inclined to saying things like "When do you think you'll finish?" Or "Try to get a little more side-hill with those skid trails". Another good one is "Tell that SOB in the red Kenworth to quit trying to eat a sandwhich, drink a cup of coffee, talk on the CB, and get around a double switchback all at the same time...He almost got me again today". I usually tell him that there's plenty of foresters but good truck drivers are hard to find.


----------



## slowp

Here's a few. The first by a logger who cares how things look, and he logged along the busiest road on the forest. There are some very good loggers around here. A lot of our "arguments" are done with humor. My friend hired a guy, told him how she wanted it to look--NO MARKING and he did a beautiful and silviculturally sound piece of work. She wants him back in 15 years to log it again. I don't know what rates are for cruising. I'm going to help the friend mentioned and pay will probably be beer and hotdogs around a fire. I'm only a forester in name, merely have a 2 year degree and that doesn't mean much to the educated ones. 





The above picture is pre-yarding. The yarding didn't make it look any different except for the logs being gone. The crew was good, but then they drifted away during the owl seasonal shut down and he never got the same crew again. We had a daily discussion in February on this unit. It went like this. 

Logger: How come those guys across the road can log all year but I can't.

Me: Because the Owl Circle on the map is that way.

Logger: (repeats the question)

Me: Everytime you ask that I will find a scarred up tree to point out to youl.

That made him determined not to do any scarring and...he was pretty successful. 

Here's the crew across the road yarding.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> LOL...I like that NO in your signature. Maybe I'll change mine to "Well, it wouldn't hurt anything if we..." or maybe "I didn't see anything about that in the THP". And there's always, "Okay boys, as soon as she's gone we'll...." The foresters I work with don't usually say NO. They're more inclined to saying things like "When do you think you'll finish?" Or "Try to get a little more side-hill with those skid trails". Another good one is "Tell that SOB in the red Kenworth to quit trying to eat a sandwhich, drink a cup of coffee, talk on the CB, and get around a double switchback all at the same time...He almost got me again today". I usually tell him that there's plenty of foresters but good truck drivers are hard to find.




See, we get no respect.


----------



## Burvol

What kind of lift do they have? Doesn't look that steep. Is the hook climbing tail trees? Did you give him some good tails, and who marks the roads/corridors? Tree lengthing operations are tricky for scarring trees when the lift is not too high. You know all of this, I'll just listen. When I cut DNR sales, the loggers mark the corridors and the tail holds. You can usually find ribbons marking their roads going down the hill right through the best timber  Are you guys banned from wagonwheels altogether yet? The State hates them around here.


----------



## slowp

Burvol said:


> What kind of lift do they have? Doesn't look that steep. Is the hook climbing tail trees? Did you give him some good tails, and who marks the roads/corridors? Tree lengthing operations are tricky for scarring trees when the lift is not too high. You know all of this, I'll just listen. When I cut DNR sales, the loggers mark the corridors and the tail holds. You can usually find ribbons marking their roads going down the hill right through the best timber  Are you guys banned from wagonwheels altogether yet? The State hates them around here.



They had enough lift on the first corridor. The father, the guy in the pictures and his son are trying to log it all by themselves. The tail tree was not a good species, Silver Fir, but was all there was. So, they had to put a twister on the stump, which was also a Silver, or did they use an old stump? Can't remember. I walked through with them, and we all hunted up tail trees and stumps. I mark them and they cut them to derig. Then, they have rat trees
left in the unit, the contract requires rat trees to be left. 

I mark out the corridor trees. The logger flags the locations. Our timber all looks the same so I can't figure out how they'd get the corridors spaced and laid out to go through the "best" timber. 

To get lift with that little yarder, they'll set up on a couple of step landings. The problem with that, is how is the father going to get down off the yarder and down on the bottom part of the landing then back up the hill to they yarder fast. He thinks he'll lose weight. But he has a bad hip and had knee surgery last winter. 

Yes, we do wagon wheel settings. It used to bother me but anymore I figure we are making elk habitat. The wagon wheel settings are hard for me to figure out how to follow though. I have to walk a bit to figure it out and then start marking. To get corridor width, I hold my arms out from the center and then add a foot. I do this on each side of the center. That gives around 12 feet. If it is downhill, I'll maybe go a little wider. Haven't heard any complaints from either the FS or the loggers, except when I've missed a tree.
Then I complain because I have to wade through the down trees.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> They had enough lift on the first corridor. The father, the guy in the pictures and his son are trying to log it all by themselves. The tail tree was not a good species, Silver Fir, but was all there was. So, they had to put a twister on the stump, which was also a Silver, or did they use an old stump? Can't remember. I walked through with them, and we all hunted up tail trees and stumps. I mark them and they cut them to derig. Then, they have rat trees
> left in the unit, the contract requires rat trees to be left.
> 
> I mark out the corridor trees. The logger flags the locations. Our timber all looks the same so I can't figure out how they'd get the corridors spaced and laid out to go through the "best" timber.
> 
> To get lift with that little yarder, they'll set up on a couple of step landings. The problem with that, is how is the father going to get down off the yarder and down on the bottom part of the landing then back up the hill to they yarder fast. He thinks he'll lose weight. But he has a bad hip and had knee surgery last winter.
> 
> Yes, we do wagon wheel settings. It used to bother me but anymore I figure we are making elk habitat. The wagon wheel settings are hard for me to figure out how to follow though. I have to walk a bit to figure it out and then start marking. To get corridor width, I hold my arms out from the center and then add a foot. I do this on each side of the center. That gives around 12 feet. If it is downhill, I'll maybe go a little wider. Haven't heard any complaints from either the FS or the loggers, except when I've missed a tree.
> Then I complain because I have to wade through the down trees.



I can't recall, for sure, who marked the sets on our crew... But if I remember right, it was Danny the lead faller.  We could hook 30' either side of the skyline on each set... And then prayed the fallers would lay out so we didn't have to hook in a big pile of pick-up-sticks!

What's 'wagon wheel settings'? I'm not familiar with the term?

BTW... I always enjoy your threads!


----------



## slowp

My first paint project! Here's a crude drawing of a wagon wheel setting. The landing is the blue blob and the corridors are the straight lines. Every corridor has to have the trees cut for a 12 foot or so wide clearing in a straight line. When they get close together near the landing, you'll end up with a small clearing around the landing. Doesn't look good to some people. It saves time in not having to move the yarder much or the other equipment. The preferred way is to have one or two corridors per landing, moving the equipment along on a road. That way you just have to have swing room for the shovel and maybe room for a small deck, along with the yarder. 

With a wagon wheel, you can often use the guyline stumps more than once. On a move on down the road setting, you'll have to hunt for new guyline stumps, depending on how close the landings are to each other. We put in the contract that corridors need to be a certain distance apart. It varies a little with each contract, but we usually require that the yarder have enough line to pull 75 feet or more out from the carriage.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> My first paint project! Here's a crude drawing of a wagon wheel setting. The landing is the blue blob and the corridors are the straight lines. Every corridor has to have the trees cut for a 12 foot or so wide clearing in a straight line. When they get close together near the landing, you'll end up with a small clearing around the landing. Doesn't look good to some people. It saves time in not having to move the yarder much or the other equipment. The preferred way is to have one or two corridors per landing, moving the equipment along on a road. That way you just have to have swing room for the shovel and maybe room for a small deck, along with the yarder.



Hmmmm... Interesting. I can't say we ever used that technique. If the set was short, we would mainline them usually, and not set up the skyline. Mainlining will wear your butt out, but with three guys taking turns, it isn't that bad I guess. I'll try and get some pictures of some sets' near the house here... I'm surrounded by them lol. Being that each set was 60' wide, it required a reset for the next corridor.

I can definitely see wagon-wheelin' as being a very useful technique. 

We always pulled the sky by hand too (no haywire), the more I read, the more I'm starting to think that's a weird way of doing it? It's the way I learned though.

We had an old jammer rig logging up the road a few years ago... THAT was a cool old rig!! Darn thing had to be 90 or 100 years old! A huge larch was used as the spar. I think I took pictures, I'll have to dig through some boxes and try and find them.


----------



## forestryworks

slowp said:


> Here's the chaser.



his hat looks a little soft :greenchainsaw:


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> his hat looks a little soft :greenchainsaw:



Maybe, but would you want to be the guy to tell him?


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Maybe, but would you want to be the guy to tell him?



I'd wait till he becomes the yarder engineer, or the shovel operator. Sometimes he's a faller too.


----------



## forestryworks

Gologit said:


> Maybe, but would you want to be the guy to tell him?



no, i've learned the hard way too many times that sometimes it's just best to keep your mouth shut... did i just shoot myself in the foot?


----------



## Burvol

forestryworks said:


> no, i've learned the hard way too many times that sometimes it's just best to keep your mouth shut... did i just shoot myself in the foot?



But you could be one of the few that picks up his brains, no joke here at all. I don't care how old you are, be a logger or a faller. If your not up to snuff on basic safety sh!t I will tell you to get it right. I don't care if I have to be the prick after you insult me for trying to keep you safe. It's not an ego thing, or "I'm right" thing, just they way it is. If the state shows up, they'll crawll up everyone's ass when threre is obviouse violations on hand. I would just throw a hat at him when he looks up from un hooking a turn.


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## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> no, i've learned the hard way too many times that sometimes it's just best to keep your mouth shut... did i just shoot myself in the foot?



Yeah, but it's only a flesh wound.


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## Gologit

Burvol said:


> But you could be one of the few that picks up his brains, no joke here at all. I don't care how old you are, be a logger or a faller. If your not up to snuff on basic safety sh!t I will tell you to get it right. I don't care if I have to be the prick after you insult me for trying to keep you safe. It's not an ego thing, or "I'm right" thing, just they way it is. If the state shows up, they'll crawll up everyone's ass when threre is obviouse violations on hand. I would just throw a hat at him when he looks up from un hooking a turn.



My uncle taught me to fall. He also taught me to log. That was a lot of years ago. He used to yell a lot and one day I'd had enough and told him I was getting tired of it.

His reply? "When you quit screwing up I'll quit yelling. You either do things right in this business or you won't last. Besides, I'd rather piss you off than pack you out".

It made sense then and it makes sense now.


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## Burvol

Gologit said:


> My uncle taught me to fall. He also taught me to log. That was a lot of years ago. He used to yell a lot and one day I'd had enough and told him I was getting tired of it.
> 
> His reply? "When you quit screwing up I'll quit yelling. You either do things right in this business or you won't last. Besides, I'd rather piss you off than pack you out".
> 
> It made sense then and it makes sense now.



Exactly. I was broke in the same way. Do it in accordance with what will 

1. Keep you safe
2. Save the timber out
3. Make it log good 

I'm cutting with a guy that is 20+ years older than me, falling 80% of his trees under the lean. The dominant and co-dominant is growing to the SE, the hillside runs East/West. I've tried to show him some easier ways to cut from the other side, but he won't do it. My Dad does not think much of him as a faller (I value his opinion and judgement, he is well respeceted), that is enough for me combined with cutting him out once or twice a day and seeing how he butchers beautiful export logs. Some people cannot get it, some do. Atleast he's always two tree lengths from me, no matter where we are, I like that.


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## John Ellison

Burvol;
I'm cutting with a guy that is 20+ years older than me said:


> Does he smash a lot of saws?


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## slowp

The guy with the camo hat on still does a lot of yelling at his son. He's one who fell a lot of old growth, and knows how...he gets calls from other loggers and the Forest Service when there's a toughie to fall. He wears a hardhat then.


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## Burvol

John Ellison said:


> Does he smash a lot of saws?



No, the old son of a ##### knows how to stay off the corners!!!


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## slowp

Interesting conversation today. I told the guy there were comments about no hardhat. He looked at me and said, well, just tell em it blew off. Then, oops, I was wearing this cap wasn't I. The step landing is working and the Skagit is too. I'll try for pictures tomorrow. I have to go wade through some brush up there to mark some corridor trees first thing in the morning. Nope, I didn't miss them. The logger said they'd be OK. Now that the line is strung through, looks like they won't. That's the way it goes.


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## slowp

Here's the landing. Yarding had not yet commenced for the day. They were recovering from rigging up the tail tree.







Here's the start of rigging up the tree using a ladder. Supposed to be much easier than using climbing gear. But, the rigger got clonked in the head by the strap..we later raided my brand new first aid kit for aspirin. (Could've been a That's Why We Wear Hardhats Moment) and his dad did a dandy slip on the log (A That's Why We Shouldn't Forget Our Calks moment) and did a flip up in the air, landing on his backside in the brush. I scored him high but docked him for not pointing his toes. He's sore but OK. We only tease after it is determined the faller (which is usually me) is going to be OK.




If this had been on TV, there'd have been steady Bleeps. I even uttered one when the tumbling act was in progress.





Now the rope is fed through so the line can feed through. I think they were going to use a big oldgrowth to tie off on. There's some that are handy. The bark is thick so it doesn't hurt the tree.





I brightened these up as much as possible. It is difficult to get good lighting this time of the year.


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## Gologit

A ladder? Well, I guess it beats somebody standing on your shoulders with their calks on ala AxeMen.

They couldn't get the shovel up there and raise the guy up that way?


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## slowp

Gologit said:


> A ladder? Well, I guess it beats somebody standing on your shoulders with their calks on ala AxeMen.
> 
> They couldn't get the shovel up there and raise the guy up that way?



I suggested the shoulder method, yesterday. They said they'd prefer to take a cherry picker.


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## Humptulips

Yea, That sounds like a heck of a labor saver packing a ladder around through the woods and two guys to hang a lift block. I would have broke your camera before I let anyone see that. Logging sure ain't what it used to be.


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## slowp

Humptulips said:


> Yea, That sounds like a heck of a labor saver packing a ladder around through the woods and two guys to hang a lift block. I would have broke your camera before I let anyone see that. Logging sure ain't what it used to be.



They swear by it. The ladder was tied to the tree. The younger guy went bounding off down into the brush with it. They do have climbing gear for going higher, but have used the ladder method for years.


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> They swear by it. The ladder was tied to the tree. The younger guy went bounding off down into the brush with it. They do have climbing gear for going higher, but have used the ladder method for years.



Well, if it works for them I guess it's okay. Not a usual sight, though.


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## Bushler

Ladder! Ladders are built to place against a flat surface, and trees are generally round. That little detail right there caused me an insufferable annoyance once. I won't go into a lot of detail, but I was glad there were no cameras present.


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## slowp

He tuned the Skagit up. He put new points in and it doesn't backfire and runs pretty good. He was feeding out the skid line by hand. It seems to go to a point and will quit spooling out.


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## slowp

*To The Scrapyard*

A slow death begins for the old Skagit.


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## slowp

View attachment 170864
View attachment 170865


From Yesterday. 

Tree lengthing on private land. I used my zooooooom.











Look close and you'll see the carriage.


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## Redwood Climber

Humptulips said:


> I see better machines then that being cut up for scrap every day. Recently with the price of scrap they are walking equipment right off the lowboy to be cut up. That's right still running. I expect there won't be many old yarders left in the near future if not already.
> 
> I know there were a bunch of old yarders sitting up on the Clearwater. All gone now. One I worked on had an alder about a foot through growing up between the drums last time I saw it. It was a big machine. No use for them kind now. I remember the haulback drum would spool 10,000 feet of inch haulback. Skyline drum 4,800 feet of 1 1/2. 199 Skagit


 
I worked on and around two BU199 Skagits one built in 1974 the other in 1976. They would spool 2600 feet of 1&1/2 skyline, 3400 feet of 1" skidding line, and 5-6000 feet of 1" haulback depending if you wanted to mound it up as you ran out of drum at just over 5000 feet.
We were logging old growth Redwood and Douglas Fir in Orick and Klamath, California. Both machines are gone now.


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