# 2 cycle oil choices



## czyhorse (Nov 23, 2020)

I fear I am opening a can of worms here but I really would like to know more. I recently switched to synthetic 2 cycle oil because I am a big believer in synthetic oil versus conventional oil being better and giving longer engine life. My big question is does brand really matter. I am using a “store” brand generic synthetic oil. I love Lucas oil products but it is literally twice the price. Does it really matter? When royal purple, Lucas oil, Sthil, husqvarna, and the like cost 50 to 100% more can you justify that quantitatively? What do they have that the generic synthetic 2 cycle oils don’t have? I am not trolling or looking for a fight. Can you really justify the extra cost? And if so what do you base your conclusion on?


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## RED-85-Z51 (Nov 23, 2020)

Does it matter. Short answer, yes.

Long answer, is a 500 dollar top end worth risking over shaving cost on oil?

In my shop i run opti2, 32oz for 34 dollars, and always only run Ethanol Free fuel. Good oil is cheap insurance. Run cheap bar oil, buy a cut rate chain...but protect the engine

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## banditt007 (Nov 23, 2020)

Make sure it passes jaso FD and iso EGD and then from there find the cheapest one. Then you know you are getting quality at a lower price. Now there are companies that CLAIM to pass these tests, and others that pay the $ and actually get certified.. Lucas claims on i think its 2 of their oils to pass the tests. Their semi syn is $30 a gallon on amazon right now and the full syn is $37. Thats 23 and 29 cents an ounce.....


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## stihl023/5 (Nov 23, 2020)

Hooray oil thread
PS not a synthetic fan


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## champion221elite (Nov 23, 2020)

Lube is good. Going in dry is bad. Astraglide is your friend. This should make for an interesting oil thread.


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Nov 23, 2020)

Just try this VPracing rated FD 100% Cost rounded up $7 per 16oz so say $14 a quart. Can buy anywhere it seems.


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## Timber MacFallen (Nov 23, 2020)

czyhorse said:


> I fear I am opening a can of worms here but I really would like to know more. I recently switched to synthetic 2 cycle oil because I am a big believer in synthetic oil versus conventional oil being better and giving longer engine life. My big question is does brand really matter. I am using a “store” brand generic synthetic oil. I love Lucas oil products but it is literally twice the price. Does it really matter? When royal purple, Lucas oil, Sthil, husqvarna, and the like cost 50 to 100% more can you justify that quantitatively? What do they have that the generic synthetic 2 cycle oils don’t have? I am not trolling or looking for a fight. Can you really justify the extra cost? And if so what do you base your conclusion on?



There is most certainly a difference in oils out there in terms of the quality. However, when it comes to 2 stroke oils there are additional factors besides just lubrication-there's also deposit formation and how well the oils burn. In theory, you could have a poorly formulated synthetic oil and a well designed blend. 

When it comes to four stroke oils I can rarely recall any tests where a generic version performed on par with the best of the name brands. Oil additives and premium base stock adds cost and reducing those levels helps turn additional profit. 

Another factor to consider is that two stroke oils are not created equally and that they are typically optimized for one of three applications depending on engine temperatures and various other considerations. Running fancy synthetic boat 2 stroke oil in your saw is a bad idea for example. 

1) Boat 2 stroke oil 
2) Air cooled power equipment oil 
3) Power sports (dirt bikes, motorcycles, 4wheeler) 

Additionally, within the category above you should take into account that some oils are blended to perform best at a certain mix ratio. Going overly heavy with an oil formulated to burn best at 50:1 or 100:1 can be a bad idea. For example, I use a synthetic 2 stroke oil in my trail bike that is formulated for a 32:1 mix ratio and it burns off cleanly at that level.

I would advise using a premium 2 stroke oil that is intended for chainsaws and other handheld 2 stroke power equipment and mixing at the appropriate ratio. Knowledgeable people who tear down saws frequently and have large saw shops like Madsens seem to favor Stihl HP Ultra. Echo Red Armor is a newer oil that seems to have favorable feedback from users, but I haven't seen too much testing. Husqvarna HP+ is a blend and not pure synthetic so be aware of that. 

Lastly, here's a link to a Youtube video where a gentleman does a nice demonstration of how various 2 stroke oils burn differently by using new cylinders and pistons with each oil:


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## CausticUC (Nov 23, 2020)

If you truly want to know more, then you need to know what the specifications are and what the stack of letters mean:

Common Synthetic Spec (an oil may have one or all):

JASO FD





JASO Oil Specifications - oilspecifications.org







www.oilspecifications.org




ISO-L-EGD





API Two-Cycle Motor Oil Specifications - oilspecifications.org







www.oilspecifications.org




API TC





ISO Two-Cycle Oil Specifications - oilspecifications.org







www.oilspecifications.org


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## BradSt (Nov 23, 2020)

If it is JASO FD/ISO-L-EGD certified, you're good to go. Chainsaws don't need anything fancy. They turn high RPM, but the piston speeds are still low, and so is the specific output. I quit spending $40/gallon on boutique oils over 10 years ago. Just loaded up on some for $10/gallon recently. It is a syn blend. I use it in everything 2 stroke, other than outboard motors. For those, I use the same brand but in TCW-III flavor.


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## Timber MacFallen (Nov 23, 2020)

BradSt said:


> If it is JASO FD/ISO-L-EGD certified, you're good to go. Chainsaws don't need anything fancy. They turn high RPM, but the piston speeds are still low, and so is the specific output. I quit spending $40/gallon on boutique oils over 10 years ago. Just loaded up on some for $10/gallon recently. It is a syn blend. I use it in everything 2 stroke, other than outboard motors. For those, I use the same brand but in TCW-III flavor.


I wouldn't say the piston speeds are low...maybe moderate is a bit more accurate. A Ford 302 V8 spinning at 6,000 rpm with a 3.00" stroke has a piston speed of 3,000 feet per minute. A Husky 550xp spinning at 13,500 rpm with a 1.36" stroke has a piston speed of 3,060 feet per minute. For the metric folks here that's 15.5 meters per second. 

Sure, it's not Ferrari or Formula 1 piston fast, but it's not slow either and demands a good layer of lubrication. These engines are air cooled and those rod bearings take a beating. A well formulated synthetic oil that burns cleanly and offers good film strength that can exceed the minimum certification specs. 

A low speed piston engine would be a Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine. For example, a 3.5hp Briggs with a 1.75" stroke at 3600 rpm has a piston speed of 1,050 feet per minute. Now that's low.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 23, 2020)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just try this VPracing rated FD 100% Cost rounded up $7 per 16oz so say $14 a quart. Can buy anywhere it seems.
> 
> View attachment 869814


Does it have the JASO seal, or are they just claiming it meets the requirements? Not saying it's not good stuff I'm sure it's more than fine, but without the seal it hasn't actually been certified.

The seal look like this, an can only be used on oils that have actually been tested.


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## ray benson (Nov 23, 2020)

Andyshine77 said:


> Does it have the JASO seal, or are they just claiming it meets the requirements? Not saying it's not good stuff I'm sure it's more than fine, but without the seal it hasn't actually been certified.
> 
> The seal look like this, an can only be used on oils that have actually been tested.


It does have the seal.

VP Racing Fuels Full Synthetic 2-Cycle Oil 16 oz., 2907 at Tractor Supply Co.


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## sean donato (Nov 23, 2020)

For what it's worth, I run klotz super techniplate in everything. Figured it was good enough for the old mans race boat, and our old dirt bikes, and sleds, good enough for my saws. And well every other 2 stroke powered piece of equipment and toy I have.


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## OM617YOTA (Nov 23, 2020)

1. Run an oil that meets mfg spec. Lots of options, all of them will be fine.
2. TUNE YOUR SAW to whatever you're running.
3. Get on with life.


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## Country bumpkin (Nov 23, 2020)

Alota oil threads out there. I like the synthetics because of the cleaner burning. Stihl, Opti2, Amsoil, Lucas, Klotz, etc... all perform well. Just be sure to mix what’s recommended & sleep well with it.


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## U&A (Nov 23, 2020)

I mix every 2 stroke oil on the shelf so i dont offended anyone 

[emoji23][emoji23]




Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]


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## czyhorse (Nov 24, 2020)

Just went and looked and my 2-cycle oil has no certifications or claims of grandeur whatsoever. So I guess I need to find some new 2-cycle oil. I had no idea! Which is why I posed the question.


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## RED-85-Z51 (Nov 24, 2020)

czyhorse said:


> Just went and looked and my 2-cycle oil has no certifications or claims of grandeur whatsoever. So I guess I need to find some new 2-cycle oil. I had no idea! Which is why I posed the question.


What oil are you running?

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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Nov 24, 2020)

Andyshine77 said:


> Does it have the JASO seal, or are they just claiming it meets the requirements? Not saying it's not good stuff I'm sure it's more than fine, but without the seal it hasn't actually been certified.
> 
> The seal look like this, an can only be used on oils that have actually been tested.





Andyshine77 said:


> Does it have the JASO seal, or are they just claiming it meets the requirements? Not saying it's not good stuff I'm sure it's more than fine, but without the seal it hasn't actually been certified.
> 
> The seal look like this, an can only be used on oils that have actually been tested.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 24, 2020)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> View attachment 869939


[emoji106][emoji4]


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## czyhorse (Nov 24, 2020)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> What oil are you running?
> 
> Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


I am really embarrassed to say right now. It is a big store house brand. (It rhymes with Paul Blart) It has no certifications on the bottle anywhere. I think I am going to switch to husqvarna‘s synthetic blend. I was leaning towards Lucas oil but the info on it says it is designed for non-premixed applications but “could” be used for a 50:1 mix. I prefer to run 40:1 in everything. So I am currently leaning towards an oil designed for chainsaws.


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## North by Northwest (Nov 24, 2020)

Shell X30 , Opti2 , Klotz Benol , Lucas Premium Synthetic , Amsoil Sabre , Maxima K2 are the various oils I have used in various 2 stroke Racing & Recreational Engines over the past 51 years , at recommended oil & engine manufacturer mix radio's from 16:1 to 80:1 . I have never witnessed a single oil related engine failure during this time on the track or on the trail . Proper oil , fuel selection & tuning will provide optimum engine performance & reliability when combined with a adequate preventative maintenance schedule !


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## pl_silverado (Nov 24, 2020)

I just picked up a bottle of Motul 710 2T on amazon for under $20. Gonna try it with the ethanol free fuel I found at a nearby gas station when I run outta VP SEF. 


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## BradSt (Nov 24, 2020)

Timber MacFallen said:


> I wouldn't say the piston speeds are low...maybe moderate is a bit more accurate. A Ford 302 V8 spinning at 6,000 rpm with a 3.00" stroke has a piston speed of 3,000 feet per minute. A Husky 550xp spinning at 13,500 rpm with a 1.36" stroke has a piston speed of 3,060 feet per minute. For the metric folks here that's 15.5 meters per second.
> 
> Sure, it's not Ferrari or Formula 1 piston fast, but it's not slow either and demands a good layer of lubrication. These engines are air cooled and those rod bearings take a beating. A well formulated synthetic oil that burns cleanly and offers good film strength that can exceed the minimum certification specs.
> 
> A low speed piston engine would be a Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine. For example, a 3.5hp Briggs with a 1.75" stroke at 3600 rpm has a piston speed of 1,050 feet per minute. Now that's low.


Ok, when compared to a stock Briggs, 3000 fpm is "moderate", but I still stand by what I said. A 3-7hp, 40-90cc chainsaw doesn't have extreme lubrication needs, even through it isn't liquid cooled. I know some want to think that their off the shelf saws need "race oil". Compare the lubrication needs to a 2 stroke 125cc shifter cart engine, that turns 14k rpm, has piston speeds of 5000 fpm, and puts out 40hp. There's a two stroke that needs a "race" oil, and at 6-8oz per gallon. That engine has 4 times the specific output of a 550xp. If you have a 16hp 550, don't use Wally World JASO FD oil.

The truth is, most 2 stroke 0PE will die from a lean fuel/air mix, or from being straight gassed. Most will never "wear out" the engine.


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## jellyroll (Nov 24, 2020)

echo red armor is what i recommend.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 24, 2020)

pl_silverado said:


> I just picked up a bottle of Motul 710 2T on amazon for under $20. Gonna try it with the ethanol free fuel I found at a nearby gas station when I run outta VP SEF.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



710 is one of the best oils I have ever used, and burns great @ 40:1 or 32:1

When it comes to recommending oils, to me it's now more which ones I wouldn't run than which is best, as most work perfectly fine. For max protection ester oils is still where it's at. Listing specific oils can turn in to a **** show. Anyway I would run any of these oils and just forget about it and go cut wood, blow leaves or trim some grass.

In no particular order.
Honda HP2
Maxima K2, or Super M
Motul 710
Motul 800 off road
Amsoil Saber or Dominator, if you can get over hype the and 100:1 nonsense.
Echo Power Blend
Echo RedArmor 
Husqvarna HP+
Other good oils are out there I just have no experience with them.

Some oils that I don't care for.
Anything with castor, smells awesome, but carbon and gummy mess, it's for racing only.
Lucas, thin as water, everything inside looked totally dry.
Stihl oil is dirty, expensive, smells bad. 
Koltz oils Smell great but most run dirty, some are known to cause rust, again for racing it works great.


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## Vibes (Nov 25, 2020)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just try this VPracing rated FD 100% Cost rounded up $7 per 16oz so say $14 a quart. Can buy anywhere it seems.
> 
> View attachment 869814


These were just on sale at our Tractor Supply store. I got the last bottle and can't remember what I paid


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## Vibes (Nov 25, 2020)

Andyshine77 said:


> Does it have the JASO seal, or are they just claiming it meets the requirements? Not saying it's not good stuff I'm sure it's more than fine, but without the seal it hasn't actually been certified.
> 
> The seal look like this, an can only be used on oils that have actually been tested.


Interesting. I see that on my new bottle of VP but notice it isn't on my bottles of Woodland Pro that I have been running for years


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## stihl023/5 (Nov 25, 2020)

Been using citgo air cooled for years


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 25, 2020)

stihl023/5 said:


> Been using citgo air cooled for years


That's basically Echo power blend.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 25, 2020)

Vibes said:


> Interesting. I see that on my new bottle of VP but notice it isn't on my bottles of Woodland Pro that I have been running for years


Just because an oil isn't certified doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't pass certification or that it won't preform perfectly fine. The certification does however give you an assurance of performance.


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## Lionsfan (Nov 25, 2020)

stihl023/5 said:


> Been using citgo air cooled for years


Citgo used to make all Mercury/Mercruiser/Quicksilver oils and gear lube. Excellent stuff.


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## North by Northwest (Nov 25, 2020)

BradSt said:


> Ok, when compared to a stock Briggs, 3000 fpm is "moderate", but I still stand by what I said. A 3-7hp, 40-90cc chainsaw doesn't have extreme lubrication needs, even through it isn't liquid cooled. I know some want to think that their off the shelf saws need "race oil". Compare the lubrication needs to a 2 stroke 125cc shifter cart engine, that turns 14k rpm, has piston speeds of 5000 fpm, and puts out 40hp. There's a two stroke that needs a "race" oil, and at 6-8oz per gallon. That engine has 4 times the specific output of a 550xp. If you have a 16hp 550, don't use Wally World JASO FD oil.
> 
> The truth is, most 2 stroke 0PE will die from a lean fuel/air mix, or from being straight gassed. Most will never "wear out" the engine.


Ain't it the truth !


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## North by Northwest (Nov 25, 2020)

Andyshine77 said:


> Just because an oil isn't certified doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't pass certification or that it won't preform perfectly fine. The certification does however give you an assurance of performance.


Certification is just a form of due diligence , in a Quality Assurance Driven Marketplace . You are correct there are and have been numerous oils , some only FC specified that are more than adequate for chainsaw usage .


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## jellyroll (Nov 25, 2020)

O'Reilly auto parts has there own brand of power sports oil in the quart which is FC rated and cost 6.49. it does contain a fuel stabilizer as well. Now there 2 cycle oil in the small bottles only has a api tc certification.


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Nov 25, 2020)

Just to show ya. Lot of folks like stihl ultra silver bottle the highest priced stuff I know of. It shows only FB. I wont touch the stuff myself by choice.

I have got alot of folks off that stuff here local. If I recall right even silver bottle poulan synthetic is FD


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Nov 25, 2020)

Some info I have saved. http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/ported-saws/jaso-explained/

FB corresponds to high lubricity performance but without any low-smoke technology.

FC meets the FB lubricity standards but also is a low-smoke lubricant.

FD corresponds to higher detergency properties than the other two grades, meets the lubricity requirements and has low smoke requirements.


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## North by Northwest (Nov 25, 2020)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Some info I have saved. http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/ported-saws/jaso-explained/
> 
> FB corresponds to high lubricity performance but without any low-smoke technology.
> 
> ...


That's correct group IV & V are all about low smoke , detergency & anti oxidizer additives . Any Group III oil is more than adequate for homeowner saw usage . I believe within small aircooled engine usage in today's grass trimmers , blowers and saws , that efuel contamination is a bigger liability actually . I find that the majority of premium synthetic oils group III thru V all have fuel conditioners within their detergent / anti oxidation blended additives to help prevent gumming while saws are in storage . I feel much better , knowing my expensive recreational equipment is protected by the best oils while in use and during seasonal off season storage . As you can obviously see , there are many Jaso certified oil groups. and products out there that will do the job !


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## BVdog (Nov 26, 2020)

BelRay! Best I have used and has been tested a lot. Very 


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## miller755 (Nov 26, 2020)

I use the quicksilver synthetic, because you can buy it in a gallon jug at walmart. It seems markedly better than some other cheaper non-synthetic I have on (branded homelite) in terms or smoke and smell, I mix at 40:1 target or a bit more. The VP oil in the measurement container seems good as well.


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## OM617YOTA (Nov 26, 2020)

Does Quicksilver make an air-cooled two stroke oil?


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## stihl023/5 (Nov 26, 2020)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just to show ya. Lot of folks like stihl ultra silver bottle the highest priced stuff I know of. It shows only FB. I wont touch the stuff myself by choice.
> 
> I have got alot of folks off that stuff here local. If I recall right even silver bottle poulan synthetic is FD
> 
> View attachment 870166


That stuff gave me headaches


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## miller755 (Nov 26, 2020)

OM617YOTA said:


> Does Quicksilver make an air-cooled two stroke oil?


There are three different ones at the walstore, I think one is a outboard oil, one is a multi application oil, I think the one I have is actually a synthetic pwc oil, I actually originally bought it for my oil injected dirt bike, but iirc it meets the jaso spec. And if it doesn't, well, I've run it in probably 15 different two strokes, which seemed to run well with no problems or I'll effects.


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## miller755 (Nov 26, 2020)

miller755 said:


> There are three different ones at the walstore, I think one is a outboard oil, one is a multi application oil, I think the one I have is actually a synthetic pwc oil, I actually originally bought it for my oil injected dirt bike, but iirc it meets the jaso spec. And if it doesn't, well, I've run it in probably 15 different two strokes, which seemed to run well with no problems or I'll effects.


Just checked, exceeds jaso fd.


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## jellyroll (Nov 27, 2020)

stihl023/5 said:


> That stuff gave me headaches


yeah burning plastic is what i think or sometimes it smells soapy in a bad way.


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## jellyroll (Nov 27, 2020)

I got all this all to use and bought it quite a while back. It was to cheap to pass up and maybe ace hardware has learned its lesson putting the wrong price on red armor.


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## Lionsfan (Nov 27, 2020)

Quicksilver and Mercury are the exact same oil. Mercury/Mercruiser is supposed to be the dealer only product line. It's packaged as Quicksilver for the non-dealer market.


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## huskihl (Nov 27, 2020)

I’m familiar with the Quicksilver pwc oil. Certified fd right on the back. Seemed to be great oil


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## LegeaDejului (Nov 27, 2020)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just to show ya. Lot of folks like stihl ultra silver bottle the highest priced stuff I know of. It shows only FB. I wont touch the stuff myself by choice.
> 
> I have got alot of folks off that stuff here local. If I recall right even silver bottle poulan synthetic is FD


Their Stihl HP Super, which is their mid-tier oil, is rated FD, you really think their premium Ultra wouldn't meet that? They probably didn't care for paying again to rate the Ultra for an extra rating that only means better detergency. I noticed a lot of people don't understand what JASO rating represents.
Quote: 
*"JASO FA* – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
*JASO FB* – improved requirements over FA with regard to lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
*JASO FC* – *lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB*, however far higher requirements over FB with regard to detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
*JASO FD* - *same as FC*, except with far higher detergency requirement."

The lubricity can only go up to FB, FC and FD is just a little extra rating for EMISSIONS and DETERGENCY, aka mostly something to make EPA happy. That's it. It's improperly adjusted carburetors that prematurely wear out engines more than any difference between all of these synthetic oils (btw, to the other user that said he prefers ester oils over synthetics, they're one and the same.. The HP Ultra, a synthetic oil, is ester based). I do agree that detergency is important, it made me move away from mineral/semi-synthetic oils; HP Super, the aforementioned stihl semi-synthetic FD rated oil, gave 2 of my saws some stubborn carbon deposits on the piston head that couldn't be cleaned out and the tune was spot on (only went away a few months after switching back to Ultra and 710 on the other).

I do agree with you that a lot of these racing oils are mildly corrosive, they have an affinity for water due to the very nature of how esters behave and a lack of corrosion suppression additives, as performance engines don't care about endurance, they just need to last a few dozen hours until a rebuild so there's no point for corrosion protection. For my uses, I stay with Motul 710/HP Ultra due to being available easily around these parts, they both provided proper protection and cleanliness over the many years I've used them, and Motul 800 for my big saws due to higher flash point and better lubricity at high temperatures for when I mill. If anyone reading this and uses their chainsaw a few times a year only, don't waste your money and continue using dino oil, unmatched corrosion protection and the lubricity is more than enough.


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Nov 28, 2020)

LegeaDejului said:


> Their Stihl HP Super, which is their mid-tier oil, is rated FD, you really think their premium Ultra wouldn't meet that? They probably didn't care for paying again to rate the Ultra for an extra rating that only means better detergency. I noticed a lot of people don't understand what JASO rating represents.
> Quote:
> *"JASO FA* – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
> *JASO FB* – improved requirements over FA with regard to lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
> ...



Trust it if you want to in your saws. I wont. FB FD FB for their 3 shown

The saws I seen coming in were to dry IMHO. I like seeing a film coat when a saw is pulled down myself.


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## North by Northwest (Nov 28, 2020)

Stihl Ultra was initially developed for the 4 mix units Stihl produced . It got a bad rap for producing excessive carbon fouling in other conventional use . However when mixed properly for the tuning application . I have witnessed good performance in friends saws and blowers !


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## Lionsfan (Nov 28, 2020)

Broken said:


> Stihl Ultra was initially developed for the 4 mix units Stihl produced . It got a bad rap for producing excessive carbon fouling in other conventional use . However when mixed properly for the tuning application . I have witnessed good performance in friends saws and blowers !


I ran opti-2 for a lot of years since the local dealer stocked it and recommended it . When I could no longer get it locally, I went to running the hp ultra that was recommended for my 4-mix kombi unit. Never thought my 2-stroke ran right with it, and decide it was best used exclusively in my Kombi-powerhead.


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## North by Northwest (Nov 28, 2020)

Lionsfan said:


> I ran opti-2 for a lot of years since the local dealer stocked it and recommended it . When I could no longer get it locally, I went to running the hp ultra that was recommended for my 4-mix kombi unit. Never thought my 2-stroke ran right with it, and decide it was best used exclusively in my Kombi-powerhead.


Could be , I never personally ran Ultra. , had friends that ran it with no problems , they were very knowledgeable within proper tuning . Actually , I would not buy Stihl products anyways lol.


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## jellyroll (Nov 28, 2020)

Broken said:


> Could be , I never personally ran Ultra. , had friends that ran it with no problems , they were very knowledgeable within proper tuning . Actually , I would not buy Stihl products anyways lol.


I like the saws but not the oil.


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## SamT1 (Nov 28, 2020)

czyhorse said:


> I fear I am opening a can of worms here but I really would like to know more. I recently switched to synthetic 2 cycle oil because I am a big believer in synthetic oil versus conventional oil being better and giving longer engine life. My big question is does brand really matter. I am using a “store” brand generic synthetic oil. I love Lucas oil products but it is literally twice the price. Does it really matter? When royal purple, Lucas oil, Sthil, husqvarna, and the like cost 50 to 100% more can you justify that quantitatively? What do they have that the generic synthetic 2 cycle oils don’t have? I am not trolling or looking for a fight. Can you really justify the extra cost? And if so what do you base your conclusion on?


I’ve never run anything but Stihl oil Since the day I bought my first 036 in like 1999. I’ve worn out lots of top ends and never scored a piston. Like wear the piston slick and just stick a new one in the cylinder. That speaks for itself.


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## Ted Jenkins (Nov 28, 2020)

SamT1 said:


> I’ve never run anything but Stihl oil Since the day I bought my first 036 in like 1999. I’ve worn out lots of top ends and never scored a piston. Like wear the piston slick and just stick a new one in the cylinder. That speaks for itself.


I have several saws from the seventies' that have only seen conventional oil so doe that mean it is better. Not in my opinion. I think some oil is better than others, but modern oil with a good tune will give very satisfactory results. Thanks


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## banditt007 (Nov 29, 2020)

Note that the JASO FD


LegeaDejului said:


> Their Stihl HP Super, which is their mid-tier oil, is rated FD, you really think their premium Ultra wouldn't meet that? They probably didn't care for paying again to rate the Ultra for an extra rating that only means better detergency. I noticed a lot of people don't understand what JASO rating represents.
> Quote:
> *"JASO FA* – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
> *JASO FB* – improved requirements over FA with regard to lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
> ...



Note also that the allowable ash content is not the same from FC and FD, FC and FB both spec sulfated ash mass % of .25 as a max allowable, while the FD specs a .18 limit.
In the real world what difference does that make? I have no idea. 

Check out this link to the JASO specs, and how its done what they test for ext. This is straight from the official site. http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_2018_EV1912.pdf


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## Tall Timber Saw Shop (Nov 29, 2020)

.....Jack does a pretty good job explaining various oils, 
...... I myself have tried most all of the oils mentioned in this thread, I believe any high quality oil, properly mixed, with a properly tuned carburetor, and the proper spark plug and gap(a hotter or colder plug may be needed), and properly warming a saw before jamming it into some knarly red oak, will show no signs of compromise after many years of use.
.....I usually use Echo red armor, because I can get it locally and it’s affordable, I know many others that use it and I work on their saws, I have no complaints, (smokes a little), but I have no real complaints about the others. (Except Husqvarna oil, I avoid that)


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## TurboA2 (Nov 29, 2020)

I love oil threads. I use amsoil saber at 45:1. It turns the gas blue. Blue is my favorite color. It doesnt smell bad either.

I tried H1R a few years ago as it works great in RC helicopters but it was hard to tune in a saw. Not enough WOT I guess. 

Stihl hp ultra smells like burning plastic cant stand it. I have a metric crap ton too. I mix up a half gallon or so every 4th tank on my fs91r. It seems to work well in the 4mix engines.


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## jellyroll (Nov 29, 2020)

TurboA2 said:


> I love oil threads. I use amsoil saber at 45:1. It turns the gas blue. Blue is my favorite color. It doesnt smell bad either.
> 
> I tried H1R a few years ago as it works great in RC helicopters but it was hard to tune in a saw. Not enough WOT I guess.
> 
> Stihl hp ultra smells like burning plastic cant stand it. I have a metric crap ton too. I mix up a half gallon or so every 4th tank on my fs91r. It seems to work well in the 4mix engines.


mix it with the 4 cycle engines to dispose of it faster it won't hurt them a bit.


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## OM617YOTA (Nov 29, 2020)

Send it to me, my diesel truck will eat it no problem.


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## sean donato (Nov 29, 2020)

I have a little.over half gallon of hp ultra left. Cant stand the way it stinks either. Never thought about dumping it in the truck tbh. Guess the ole 12v wont mind it.


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## muad (Nov 29, 2020)

Great info, thanks OP and all who are contributing. 

I ran Stihl HP for years, along with a couple quarts of klotz that I found from dad's RC plane days. LOVED the smell of klotz, but it was $$$

Local dealer turned me toward Husqvarna HP+, so I bought a gallon. Some posts here have me doubting that decision now. I run mostly ported 2-series huskies mixed at 40:1.


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## OM617YOTA (Nov 29, 2020)

It'll be fine. Tune for what you run and cut wood.


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## Lionsfan (Nov 29, 2020)

muad said:


> Great info, thanks OP and all who are contributing.
> 
> I ran Stihl HP for years, along with a couple quarts of klotz that I found from dad's RC plane days. LOVED the smell of klotz, but it was $$$
> 
> Local dealer turned me toward Husqvarna HP+, so I bought a gallon. Some posts here have me doubting that decision now. I run mostly ported 2-series huskies mixed at 40:1.


I'd be fine running that if we had a dealer close by that I liked. The only one left close to me besides TSC gets out the price list and quotes you the msrp for everything in his store. I'll pass.


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## dmb2613 (Nov 29, 2020)

czyhorse said:


> I fear I am opening a can of worms here but I really would like to know more. I recently switched to synthetic 2 cycle oil because I am a big believer in synthetic oil versus conventional oil being better and giving longer engine life. My big question is does brand really matter. I am using a “store” brand generic synthetic oil. I love Lucas oil products but it is literally twice the price. Does it really matter? When royal purple, Lucas oil, Sthil, husqvarna, and the like cost 50 to 100% more can you justify that quantitatively? What do they have that the generic synthetic 2 cycle oils don’t have? I am not trolling or looking for a fight. Can you really justify the extra cost? And if so what do you base your conclusion on?


Well does it really matter if it is synthetic or oil out of the ground, that is up to you , if it meets specs it should be fine 
I use the old stuff , I like to see the smoke and smell the oil


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## muad (Nov 29, 2020)

Lionsfan said:


> I'd be fine running that if we had a dealer close by that I liked. The only one left close to me besides TSC gets out the price list and quotes you the msrp for everything in his store. I'll pass.




I am blessed to have an awesome dealer, who sells Husky and Stihl. They're honest, and the owner knows my new found husky addiction and he hooks me up with great deals on trade-in saws.


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## LegeaDejului (Nov 29, 2020)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> The saws I seen coming in were to dry IMHO. I like seeing a film coat when a saw is pulled down myself.


That's because of the 50:1 ratio being spewed out by all these manufacturers due to EPA blowing down their necks, I doubt it has anything to do with the oil. I run everything at 40:1 minimum. Anything less, no matter the oil, the bottom end is too dry for my liking on saws I took apart (especially the piston bearings, finding that area completely dry always cringed me out).

Look at Stihl manuals in Australia or South Africa, no EPA or anything so their recommended ratios for their 2 stroke tools are between 40:1 to* 25:1*!!! Why won't they stick to the 50:1 over there I wonder... Hmmm

edit: I see that even on their international site they recommend 25:1 if not their brand of oil. https://www.stihl.com/fuel-mix.aspx


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## jellyroll (Nov 29, 2020)

LegeaDejului said:


> That's because of the 50:1 ratio being spewed out by all these manufacturers due to EPA blowing down their necks, I doubt it has anything to do with the oil. I run everything at 40:1 minimum. Anything less, no matter the oil, the bottom end is too dry for my liking on saws I took apart (especially the piston bearings, finding that area completely dry always cringed me out).
> 
> Look at Stihl manuals in Australia or South Africa, no EPA or anything so their recommended ratios for their 2 stroke tools are between 40:1 to* 25:1*!!! Why won't they stick to the 50:1 over there I wonder... Hmmm
> 
> edit: I see that even on their international site they recommend 25:1 if not their brand of oil. https://www.stihl.com/fuel-mix.aspx


Well that does it i will mix some 32:1 for my stihl saws and tune them a touch fat so it 4 strokes out of the cut and cleans up in the wood. But no i got a old lawn boy that takes 32:1 and they will take care of not having different cans of mix around.


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## banditt007 (Nov 29, 2020)

I  32:1


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## jellyroll (Nov 29, 2020)

OM617YOTA said:


> Send it to me, my diesel truck will eat it no problem.


1/2 ounce per gallon is what i mix at but i got a old mechanically injected compact tractor.


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## jellyroll (Nov 29, 2020)

Did some reading on stihl hp ultra and according to product data it is a ashless ester product and this got me thinking if it is ashless it shouldn't be any different than outboard oil because TCW3 is a ashless oil in nature but jaso fb, fc, fd, are low ash oils.


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## OM617YOTA (Nov 29, 2020)

jellyroll said:


> 1/2 ounce per gallon is what i mix at but i got a old mechanically injected compact tractor.


I was being facetious, although if you sent it to me I'd dump it all in the tank all at once. Old mechanical engine here as well, wouldn't do that on anything new with modern emissions and DPF stuff.


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## jellyroll (Nov 29, 2020)

OM617YOTA said:


> I was being facetious, although if you sent it to me I'd dump it all in the tank all at once. Old mechanical engine here as well, wouldn't do that on anything new with modern emissions and DPF stuff.


I would feel bad for the guy behind me after dumping a half gallon of ultra in my fuel tank. It sure would be a ripe smell burning plastic and diesel .


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## muad (Nov 29, 2020)

OM617YOTA said:


> I was being facetious, although if you sent it to me I'd dump it all in the tank all at once. Old mechanical engine here as well, wouldn't do that on anything new with modern emissions and DPF stuff.




A guy I work with as a Bobbed deuce and a half with the multi-fuel diesel. Apparently the local park ordered 50 gallons of lamp oil for the cabins at the one park, and didn't realize they ordered lavender scented oil. Being that those cabins are heated and the lights are all runoff that oil, the lavender smell was overwhelming. They gave him the remaining 40 or 45 gallons, and he said he ran that and his truck smelled like a hippie going down the road, LOL! 

I would love to buy that truck, but can't swing it financially right now, plus the Mrs said NO! 

Back on topic, Kevin recommended I run 32:1 in the saw he ported for me, but my dealer said it would be too thick for my newer saws and weedeaters. I didn't want two different mix cans, so I met in the middle and run near 40:1. What I do is fill one of those little 1 gallon mix bottles up all the way, and mix that with a gallon of 100LL. New they are maybe 2/3 full at the 2.6oz mark, so I figure I'm somewhere between 3.2-3.5oz. I should probably actually measure it so I know for sure what I'm running.


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## Lionsfan (Nov 29, 2020)

muad said:


> A guy I work with as a Bobbed deuce and a half with the multi-fuel diesel. Apparently the local park ordered 50 gallons of lamp oil for the cabins at the one park, and didn't realize they ordered lavender scented oil. Being that those cabins are heated and the lights are all runoff that oil, the lavender smell was overwhelming. They gave him the remaining 40 or 45 gallons, and he said he ran that and his truck smelled like a hippie going down the road, LOL!
> 
> I would love to buy that truck, but can't swing it financially right now, plus the Mrs said NO!
> 
> Back on topic, Kevin recommended I run 32:1 in the saw he ported for me, but my dealer said it would be too thick for my newer saws and weedeaters. I didn't want two different mix cans, so I met in the middle and run near 40:1. What I do is fill one of those little 1 gallon mix bottles up all the way, and mix that with a gallon of 100LL. New they are maybe 2/3 full at the 2.6oz mark, so I figure I'm somewhere between 3.2-3.5oz. I should probably actually measure it so I know for sure what I'm running.


Big man told me to run 32:1 in my ported saw and my non-ported auto-tune. Didn't specify a brand, so long as it was FC or better. If he says so, it is so.


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## OM617YOTA (Nov 29, 2020)

muad said:


> A guy I work with as a Bobbed deuce and a half with the multi-fuel diesel. Apparently the local park ordered 50 gallons of lamp oil for the cabins at the one park, and didn't realize they ordered lavender scented oil. Being that those cabins are heated and the lights are all runoff that oil, the lavender smell was overwhelming. They gave him the remaining 40 or 45 gallons, and he said he ran that and his truck smelled like a hippie going down the road, LOL!
> 
> I would love to buy that truck, but can't swing it financially right now, plus the Mrs said NO!
> 
> Back on topic, Kevin recommended I run 32:1 in the saw he ported for me, but my dealer said it would be too thick for my newer saws and weedeaters. I didn't want two different mix cans, so I met in the middle and run near 40:1. What I do is fill one of those little 1 gallon mix bottles up all the way, and mix that with a gallon of 100LL. New they are maybe 2/3 full at the 2.6oz mark, so I figure I'm somewhere between 3.2-3.5oz. I should probably actually measure it so I know for sure what I'm running.




Great score by your friend, 45 gallons of free fuel!

A couple years back my girlfriend and I were discussing the proliferation of pumpkin spice everything, and she bet I could find something pumpkin spice that I'd like. She was right, fuel scent! Supposed to make your exhaust smell fruity or whatever. Anyway, there was a pumpkin spice variety. A double dose in the tank and not a darned thing could be smelled out the exhaust, but to this day, two years and many many fillups later, if you stick your nose in the fuel filler of my truck, it still smells like pumpkin spice.

Your new stuff will run 32:1 just fine, just tune for your mix. Whatever you run, tune for your mix.


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## OM617YOTA (Nov 29, 2020)

jellyroll said:


> I would feel bad for the guy behind me after dumping a half gallon of ultra in my fuel tank. It sure would be a ripe smell burning plastic and diesel .


I've burned all kinds of stuff in my truck. Usually the last couple ounces in the bottom of an oil can. Worst was 90w gear lube, will NOT do that again!


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## muad (Nov 29, 2020)

OM617YOTA said:


> I've burned all kinds of stuff in my truck. Usually the last couple ounces in the bottom of an oil can. Worst was 90w gear lube, will NOT do that again!



I burned all kinds of stuff in my old VW non-TDI diesel Jetta. Used MO, WATF, etc. I think it ran better with a heavy dose of "fuel additive", LOL. 

One day I'll have a 6bt in my F350, and I'll be able to use my fuel additives again


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## muad (Nov 29, 2020)

OM617YOTA said:


> Great score by your friend, 45 gallons of free fuel!
> 
> A couple years back my girlfriend and I were discussing the proliferation of pumpkin spice everything, and she bet I could find something pumpkin spice that I'd like. She was right, fuel scent! Supposed to make your exhaust smell fruity or whatever. Anyway, there was a pumpkin spice variety. A double dose in the tank and not a darned thing could be smelled out the exhaust, but to this day, two years and many many fillups later, if you stick your nose in the fuel filler of my truck, it still smells like pumpkin spice.
> 
> Your new stuff will run 32:1 just fine, just tune for your mix. Whatever you run, tune for your mix.



That's hilarious. 

Thanks for the input on the mix.


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## jellyroll (Nov 29, 2020)

muad said:


> A guy I work with as a Bobbed deuce and a half with the multi-fuel diesel. Apparently the local park ordered 50 gallons of lamp oil for the cabins at the one park, and didn't realize they ordered lavender scented oil. Being that those cabins are heated and the lights are all runoff that oil, the lavender smell was overwhelming. They gave him the remaining 40 or 45 gallons, and he said he ran that and his truck smelled like a hippie going down the road, LOL!
> 
> I would love to buy that truck, but can't swing it financially right now, plus the Mrs said NO!
> 
> Back on topic, Kevin recommended I run 32:1 in the saw he ported for me, but my dealer said it would be too thick for my newer saws and weedeaters. I didn't want two different mix cans, so I met in the middle and run near 40:1. What I do is fill one of those little 1 gallon mix bottles up all the way, and mix that with a gallon of 100LL. New they are maybe 2/3 full at the 2.6oz mark, so I figure I'm somewhere between 3.2-3.5oz. I should probably actually measure it so I know for sure what I'm running.


Here is a easy to remember chart.
4.0 ounces mixed with 1.25 gallons = 40:1------------------------------------------ 4.0 ounces mixed with 1.0 gallon = 32:1
8.0 ounces mixed with 2.50 gallons = 40:1------------------------------------------ 8.0 ounces mixed with 2.0 gallons = 32:1
16.0 ounces mixed with 5.00 gallons = 40:1------------------------------------------ 16.0 ounces mixed with 4.0 gallons = 32:1


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## czyhorse (Nov 30, 2020)

Tall Timber Saw Shop said:


> .....Jack does a pretty good job explaining various oils,
> ...... I myself have tried most all of the oils mentioned in this thread, I believe any high quality oil, properly mixed, with a properly tuned carburetor, and the proper spark plug and gap(a hotter or colder plug may be needed), and properly warming a saw before jamming it into some knarly red oak, will show no signs of compromise after many years of use.
> .....I usually use Echo red armor, because I can get it locally and it’s affordable, I know many others that use it and I work on their saws, I have no complaints, (smokes a little), but I have no real complaints about the others. (Except Husqvarna oil, I avoid that)



Why do you avoid Husqvarna?


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## SimonHS (Nov 30, 2020)

jellyroll said:


> 16.0 ounces mixed with 5.00 gallons = 40:1------------------------------------------ 16.0 ounces mixed with 5.0 gallons = 32:1


I think that there is a typo in the last line.

It should be '16.0 ounces mixed with 4.0 gallons = 32:1'


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## michael j (Nov 30, 2020)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just to show ya. Lot of folks like stihl ultra silver bottle the highest priced stuff I know of. It shows only FB. I wont touch the stuff myself by choice.
> 
> I have got alot of folks off that stuff here local. If I recall right even silver bottle poulan synthetic is FD
> 
> View attachment 870166


It’s good to know that it only causes cancer in California, though.


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## stihl023/5 (Nov 30, 2020)

michael j said:


> It’s good to know that it only causes cancer in California, though.


Doesn't everything?


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## OM617YOTA (Nov 30, 2020)

When something causes cancer outside California, then I'll worry.


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## Ted Jenkins (Nov 30, 2020)

I am sure the rest of the States and the world will catch up to California so cancer can be an equal opportunity plague. Of course it will depend on the elected officials. Thanks


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## jellyroll (Nov 30, 2020)

SimonHS said:


> I think that there is a typo in the last line.
> 
> It should be '16.0 ounces mixed with 4.0 gallons = 32:1'


OPPS i corrected that error thank you.


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## jellyroll (Nov 30, 2020)

czyhorse said:


> Why do you avoid Husqvarna?


From what i know the Husqvarna ls oil is what i would avoid but the XP oil is much better.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 30, 2020)

jellyroll said:


> From what i know the Husqvarna ls oil is what i would avoid but the XP oil is much better.


The new XP+ oil is really good, the older oil was not that great.


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## jellyroll (Nov 30, 2020)

Andyshine77 said:


> The new XP+ oil is really good, the older oil was not that great.


Husqvarna oil is hard to get here so i really wouldn't know i have been running echo or carquest oils for a long time. But one thing i have been meaning to ask do you know anything about the power blend gold that is out? i have seen it online but my dealer hasn't got it in stock yet.


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## rarefish383 (Nov 30, 2020)

Normally I say I run all of my 2 stroke stuff on Stihl Ultra at 50:1 with no problems. Then I got to thinking about it. Many of my saws are saws my Dad bought new back in the 70's, and he used nothing but Amoco 2 stroke oil, because we dealt at an Amoco station. Did those old saws run 5 days a week for 20-30 years because the Amoco oil was so good? I still go through 5-10 gallons of fuel a month so I'll just stick with what works for me.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 1, 2020)

jellyroll said:


> Husqvarna oil is hard to get here so i really wouldn't know i have been running echo or carquest oils for a long time. But one thing i have been meaning to ask do you know anything about the power blend gold that is out? i have seen it online but my dealer hasn't got it in stock yet.


Don't know if the formula has changed, but it's still made by Citgo and is FD certified. It has always been a good product.


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## Tall Timber Saw Shop (Dec 1, 2020)

czyhorse said:


> Why do you avoid Husqvarna?


Let me clarify my reasoning, I should have before, sorry bout that... I don’t think there is a performance or quality problem, but from a saw builders perspective it seemed to leave a sort of (best I can explain it) Soviet rifle cosmoline type of film on the piston and cylinders, kind of a pain to clean and it seems sticky. Maybe that’s the way it’s supposed to be, but with so many other options in 2 cycle engine oil I just avoid the husky stuff, great saws, I just avoid their bars and oils.
I recently did a 272 husky and I’ll have to ask that owner what he used because that was a very clean p/c. But I have had recently a couple 562 husky’s and a Jonsered 2260 and there seems to be a lot of carbon build up, so I’ll ask these owners what they’ve been using, all the mentioned saws have seen ALOT of use.


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## Jethro 2t sniffer (Dec 1, 2020)

I use motul 800. Why? It smells yummy

Stihl oil is horrid stench


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## Tall Timber Saw Shop (Dec 1, 2020)

Yea the stihl oil seems high in detergents, cleans well, the “biodegradable” thing is kind questionable too.
I too like the motul and I must say I am a fan of the 40:1


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## Jethro 2t sniffer (Dec 1, 2020)

Tall Timber Saw Shop said:


> Yea the stihl oil seems high in detergents, cleans well, the “biodegradable” thing is kind questionable too.
> I too like the motul and I must say I am a fan of the 40:1


Yeah I run it at 40 too. No deposits i can see yet after a couple years on it


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 1, 2020)

Tall Timber Saw Shop said:


> Let me clarify my reasoning, I should have before, sorry bout that... I don’t think there is a performance or quality problem, but from a saw builders perspective it seemed to leave a sort of (best I can explain it) Soviet rifle cosmoline type of film on the piston and cylinders, kind of a pain to clean and it seems sticky. Maybe that’s the way it’s supposed to be, but with so many other options in 2 cycle engine oil I just avoid the husky stuff, great saws, I just avoid their bars and oils.
> I recently did a 272 husky and I’ll have to ask that owner what he used because that was a very clean p/c. But I have had recently a couple 562 husky’s and a Jonsered 2260 and there seems to be a lot of carbon build up, so I’ll ask these owners what they’ve been using, all the mentioned saws have seen ALOT of use.


Do you have experience with the new oil? The old version was not great, and as you said the residue was sticky.


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## Tall Timber Saw Shop (Dec 1, 2020)

Andyshine77 said:


> Do you have experience with the new oil? The old version was not great, and as you said the residue was sticky.


I do not, I wouldn’t be against trying it, my local husky guy seems super expensive on most his items, and I have found oils that work for me, so I suppose I’ve had no reason to bother.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 1, 2020)

Jethro 2t sniffer said:


> I use motul 800. Why? It smells yummy
> 
> Stihl oil is horrid stench


You can't go wrong with Motul. 710 burns better and with less fumes IMHO, I run it at 32:1 I will say 710 doesn't smell as kool though.[emoji6]


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## Jethro 2t sniffer (Dec 1, 2020)

Andyshine77 said:


> You can't go wrong with Motul. 710 burns better and with less fumes IMHO, I run it at 32:1 I will say 710 doesn't smell as kool though.[emoji6]



Interested to try that. I'm pretty sure at the bike shop it was 800 or the cheap stuff for farm bikes and can't remember which number it was but definitely keen to give it a go. 

Anyone else notice the awful stink of stihl oil?? Maybe if ya haven't then try a nice smelling oil and then ya will lol. 

Motul even smells like strawberries if ya stuff ya nose in the bottle haha. Yes I'm a weirdo


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## jellyroll (Dec 1, 2020)

Echo powerblend has a sweet type smell and i can't put my finger on what red armor smells like but it mixed at 32:1 with 100LL it smells decent but avgas smells good anyways.


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## cookies (Dec 1, 2020)

i shoot for 40-1 but usually over pour landing closer to 38-1 using conventional 2 stroke oil. In the automotive world you learn that synthetic and synthetic blend oils do not fully burn and produce more carbon deposits that are very difficult to remove. Check out what happens when syn oil is used in a mazda rotary engine


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## Timber MacFallen (Dec 1, 2020)

cookies said:


> i shoot for 40-1 but usually over pour landing closer to 38-1 using conventional 2 stroke oil. In the automotive world you learn that synthetic and synthetic blend oils do not fully burn and produce more carbon deposits that are very difficult to remove. Check out what happens when syn oil is used in a mazda rotary engine



Did anyone see the Amsoil string trimmer study from 2016? They ran eight two stroke trimmers (Echo SRM-225) for 300 hours each in a lab using a 50:1 mix of Saber and a 50:1 mix of Echo Power Blend. The notable thing after 300 hours wasn't the wear measured, but the carbon build up in exhaust ports and spark arrestor. Good pictures and a chart showing peak rpm decline at various hour intervals. You can find it uploaded at this link: http://wpc.1c96.edgecastcdn.net/001C96/G-Items/g3470-ECHO-50-to-1-Study-08-23-17/index.html


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## U&A (Dec 1, 2020)

Timber MacFallen said:


> Did anyone see the Amsoil string trimmer study from 2016? They ran eight two stroke trimmers (Echo SRM-225) for 300 hours each in a lab using a 50:1 mix of Saber and a 50:1 mix of Echo Power Blend. The notable thing after 300 hours wasn't the wear measured, but the carbon build up in exhaust ports and spark arrestor. Good pictures and a chart showing peak rpm decline at various hour intervals. You can find it uploaded at this link: http://wpc.1c96.edgecastcdn.net/001C96/G-Items/g3470-ECHO-50-to-1-Study-08-23-17/index.html



I prefer trusting test that are not done by the oil manufacturer.

All their oil test they are the winner


Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]


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## U&A (Dec 1, 2020)

Timber MacFallen said:


> Did anyone see the Amsoil string trimmer study from 2016? They ran eight two stroke trimmers (Echo SRM-225) for 300 hours each in a lab using a 50:1 mix of Saber and a 50:1 mix of Echo Power Blend. The notable thing after 300 hours wasn't the wear measured, but the carbon build up in exhaust ports and spark arrestor. Good pictures and a chart showing peak rpm decline at various hour intervals. You can find it uploaded at this link: http://wpc.1c96.edgecastcdn.net/001C96/G-Items/g3470-ECHO-50-to-1-Study-08-23-17/index.html



I prefer trusting test that are not done by the oil manufacturer.

All their oil test they are the winner


Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]


----------



## LegeaDejului (Dec 2, 2020)

Jethro 2t sniffer said:


> Interested to try that. I'm pretty sure at the bike shop it was 800 or the cheap stuff for farm bikes and can't remember which number it was but definitely keen to give it a go.
> 
> Anyone else notice the awful stink of stihl oil?? Maybe if ya haven't then try a nice smelling oil and then ya will lol.
> 
> Motul even smells like strawberries if ya stuff ya nose in the bottle haha. Yes I'm a weirdo


It definitely doesn't smell pleasant, but it doesn't bother me or gives me any headaches or smelly clothes like I've heard people around here complain about. Surprising how Motul 800 and the Stihl Ultra smell so different, yet their base is synthesized from the same thing: wait for it.... PALM OIL . Yap, that's why they're both biodegradable under special circumstances (although its modified so much chemically it has nothing to do with palm oil anymore, hence why it's catalogued as completely synthetic). I think the Motomix premixed gas from Stihl with the Ultra in it has a guaranteed shelf life of what, 10 years unopened?

I'm interested in trying some Mobil 1 Racing 2t, its still available here in eastern Europe, and its half the price of the Stihl/Motul. Couldn't find any info regarding its composition except very vague data. I know it burns clean, but how good is it in regards to wear protection compared to these top synthetic oils on the market everywhere? Does anyone know any reason why it was discontinued in the US? I remember talking to folks all over Florida and nobody had any for years, and some said it's the same all over US. Couldn't find it online over there either. I'm sold on the Ultra and Motul 710/800 after opening up saws with pristine top and bottom end (except some carbon on top of the piston but that's inevitable), so I don't really need to change anything but let's be honest, we can help it can't we? The continuous addiction of reading oil threads...


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## OM617YOTA (Dec 2, 2020)

I still have a few quarts of Racing 2T left. Loved that stuff, very clean, smelled OK. Almost no dye in it, so a couple times the fuel can got a second dose just to be sure. Better to run 16:1 than 128:0. Still burned clean.

40:1 Trufuel makes my sinuses burn, I've considered 4 stroke Trufuel and adding my own Racing 2T.


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## Tall Timber Saw Shop (Dec 2, 2020)

Because of this thread I decided to finally have a look at my MS361 piston(just through the exhaust). I have never inspected or looked at this cylinder, first time I think I’ve even had the plug out. Well I think it speaks a lot for echo red armor. This saw has been fed nothing but 90 octane and echo red armor. In its very early days it may have ran echo gold, but I can’t tell you how many millions of board feet this saw has cut. I think it goes to show no matter which mix oil you buy, as long as it’s a high quality oil, whether it be husky, stihl, echo, motul, amsoil,..... there are more important things to worry about in a saw, like sharp chain, using good fuel, proper carb adjust, there are so many factors to a properly running saw. People in my parts are not gentle with their saws. They fail from other uses far before a questionable mix oil. It’s great to have choices, pick what works best for you and run her hard, and lay those trees down like a baby’s head on a pillow!


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## Timber MacFallen (Dec 2, 2020)

Tall Timber Saw Shop said:


> Because of this thread I decided to finally have a look at my MS361 piston(just through the exhaust). I have never inspected or looked at this cylinder, first time I think I’ve even had the plug out. Well I think it speaks a lot for echo red armor. This saw has been fed nothing but 90 octane and echo red armor. In its very early days it may have ran echo gold, but I can’t tell you how many millions of board feet this saw has cut. I think it goes to show no matter which mix oil you buy, as long as it’s a high quality oil, whether it be husky, stihl, echo, motul, amsoil,..... there are more important things to worry about in a saw, like sharp chain, using good fuel, proper carb adjust, there are so many factors to a properly running saw. People in my parts are not gentle with their saws. They fail from other uses far before a questionable mix oil. It’s great to have choices, pick what works best for you and run her hard, and lay those trees down like a baby’s head on a pillow!


What ratio do you typically mix at? Things are looking good from what I can see in those pics.

I continue to hear positive things about Red Armor. It's pricey (at least around me) but seems to be a high performer.


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## Tall Timber Saw Shop (Dec 2, 2020)

Timber MacFallen said:


> What ratio do you typically mix at? Things are looking good from what I can see in those pics.
> 
> I continue to hear positive things about Red Armor. It's pricey (at least around me) but seems to be a high performer.


This saw has been around 50:1, maybe a little heavy, so 47:1, but you shouldn’t have any issues, the red armor here is affordable at the echo dealer, just wish they had gallon jugs. The top of the piston was clean too, very little if any buildup and the exhaust port was much better than I’ve seen from other saws. Affordable, convenient, and super performer, why switch.....


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## Mad Professor (Dec 2, 2020)




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## North by Northwest (Dec 2, 2020)

Tall Timber Saw Shop said:


> This saw has been around 50:1, maybe a little heavy, so 47:1, but you shouldn’t have any issues, the red armor here is affordable at the echo dealer, just wish they had gallon jugs. The top of the piston was clean too, very little if any buildup and the exhaust port was much better than I’ve seen from other saws. Affordable, convenient, and super performer, why switch.....


50:1 with a quality oil , your example pretty well sums it up . I had a ms361 ran 50:1 with Opti2 same results . I wouldn't change a thing !


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## North by Northwest (Dec 2, 2020)

Mad Professor said:


> View attachment 871566


Remember that stuff , real well !


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## Vibes (Dec 3, 2020)

Andyshine77 said:


> Just because an oil isn't certified doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't pass certification or that it won't preform perfectly fine. The certification does however give you an assurance of performance.


I've been running Woodsman Pro for years without an issue. Lately though you can't get the 5 gallon mix bottles. I've been running the Poulan Synthetic from Wal-mart which also isn't certified, And the VP because they have it at my auto parts store


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## North by Northwest (Dec 3, 2020)

Vibes said:


> I've been running Woodsman Pro for years without an issue. Lately though you can't get the 5 gallon mix bottles. I've been running the Poulan Synthetic from Wal-mart which also isn't certified, And the VP because they have it at my auto parts store


Sabre is not actually certified either and its a quality product when mixed within reasonable ratios . Research what your buying within the product base component along with any additives and use it appropriately . Nothing wrong with your application as long as you use it within its design perimeters !


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## Lionsfan (Dec 3, 2020)

I bought a quart of it at my local auto parts store recently. Price was competitive with most of the other major brands I can get locally. Maybe 32:1 is a little too heavy to mix that stuff, smells like a burn barrel full of empty milk jugs and walmart grocery bags when you run it.


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## Grateful11 (Dec 6, 2020)

Switched over to Echo Red Armor about 5 years ago and hadn't had anymore 2 stroke fuel problems since. We also run non-ethanol gas.


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## Czed (Dec 6, 2020)

czyhorse said:


> I fear I am opening a can of worms here but I really would like to know more. I recently switched to synthetic 2 cycle oil because I am a big believer in synthetic oil versus conventional oil being better and giving longer engine life. My big question is does brand really matter. I am using a “store” brand generic synthetic oil. I love Lucas oil products but it is literally twice the price. Does it really matter? When royal purple, Lucas oil, Sthil, husqvarna, and the like cost 50 to 100% more can you justify that quantitatively? What do they have that the generic synthetic 2 cycle oils don’t have? I am not trolling or looking for a fight. Can you really justify the extra cost? And if so what do you base your conclusion on?


I always wanted to know which company's manufacturer oils for others to be rebranded and sold.
For instance mobil one supplied the supertech Walmart brand
For many years
Now it's warren I believe.
And Napa oil is valvoline last I checked.
I absolutely hate stihl oils and xp 
Causes me headaches
And have had issues with them.


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## Ol' Brian (Dec 23, 2020)

I must be a little wierd or something... I think the Stihl Ultra oil smells pretty good. My Husky's like it. So do my Stihl 4Mix engines.


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## RED-85-Z51 (Dec 23, 2020)

U&A said:


> I prefer trusting test that are not done by the oil manufacturer.
> 
> All their oil test they are the winner
> 
> ...


I worked for an echo dealer for 3 years and i can vouch for these results...powerblendX isn't a bad oil but those pistons look as good or better as the ones i saw using that oil...alot of deposits and common port buildup i didnt see it with most other oils

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


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## cookies (Dec 24, 2020)

so what's everyone's advice/experience in breaking in a brand new cylinder/rings? personally I would feel better using regular oil the first couple tanks until the saw felt at full power before switching over to a synthetic


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## RED-85-Z51 (Dec 24, 2020)

cookies said:


> so what's everyone's advice/experience in breaking in a brand new cylinder/rings? personally I would feel better using regular oil the first couple tanks until the saw felt at full power before switching over to a synthetic


I use the oil i run normally which is opti2, but at 32:1 for a tank...then i go up from there when i start to turn up the power

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


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## Vibes (Dec 24, 2020)

U&A said:


> I prefer trusting test that are not done by the oil manufacturer.
> 
> All their oil test they are the winner
> 
> ...


Regardless of the oil manufacturer, Did you look at those results and pictures? That number 5 engine was clearly a POS compared to the other 7. I wonder if it was assembled with parts made on a Friday or Monday


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## U&A (Dec 24, 2020)

Vibes said:


> Regardless of the oil manufacturer, Did you look at those results and pictures? That number 5 engine was clearly a POS compared to the other 7. I wonder if it was assembled with parts made on a Friday or Monday



Iv seen it before. I spent years researching the ups and downs of motor oil.Just kinda happened[emoji2373]


Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]


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## usafstud (Dec 25, 2020)

For thise using MOTUL 200 2T, which version are you using? Off road (104038) or road racing (104041)?


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## LegeaDejului (Dec 27, 2020)

usafstud said:


> For thise using MOTUL 200 2T, which version are you using? Off road (104038) or road racing (104041)?


Off-road, it has a lower flash point (still high compared to other oils), burns better in a chain saw. Road-racing is optimal for engines that run 18-20k rpm. I'm liking the smell of 800 off road more and more, I'm using it in my smaller chainsaws too lately and I like the results.


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## usafstud (Dec 28, 2020)

So off-road version for all power equipment (chainsaw, backpack blower, mutli-head)?


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## LegeaDejului (Dec 28, 2020)

usafstud said:


> So off-road version for all power equipment (chainsaw, backpack blower, mutli-head)?


Yes, runs for all, great oil with great detergency, if carb jetted correctly of course. I like it at 40:1 gas to oil ratio. Might get a little bit more spooge coming out of the exhaust on the lower rpm tools (like the blower), but no biggie. If you don't use the same gas can for all tools, you can use 50:1 for the blower and 40:1 for the chainsaw. But to be fair, due to the viscosity and lack of solvents, motul 800 at 50:1 has the same actual oil as other brands at 40:1, so you could go 50:1 in all and don't stress over it, especially if not a pro that runs them hours on end. I'm just a 40:1 guy due to seeing some nasty bearing wear on pro saws ran 50:1 pre-mix fuel (no so chance they were straight gased or lean mix ratio).


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## HuskyP (Dec 28, 2020)

sean donato said:


> For what it's worth, I run klotz super techniplate in everything. Figured it was good enough for the old mans race boat, and our old dirt bikes, and sleds, good enough for my saws. And well every other 2 stroke powered piece of equipment and toy I have.


Nice! I run Klotz R-50 in my saws. Never had a problem with them. When I pull the muffler, I always have a nice shiny film on an impeccable piston and no carbon build up on the exhaust port or muffler. Regardless of the oil you run, tune your saws. Get those jets dialed in and let those buggers sing!


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## LegeaDejului (Dec 28, 2020)

HuskyP said:


> Regardless of the oil you run, tune your saws. Get those jets dialed in and let those buggers sing!


Spot on bud. A good tune is everything for a healthy 2 stroke: too lean, clean spark plug but overhearted piston with black burnt oil all over it, or even worse if way too lean. Too rich, spotless piston due to washing but plug and chamber all gummed up. It's worth buying a m-tronic for people that aren't interested in learning it, but it's not rocket science. Lots of detailed videos on proper tuning, it's how I did it. You'll also know if your m-tronic ever has a problem just by the sound of it, and it might save you a lot of money on the long run.


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## HuskyP (Dec 28, 2020)

HuskyP said:


> Nice! I run Klotz R-50 in my saws. Never had a problem with them. When I pull the muffler, I always have a nice shiny film on an impeccable piston and no carbon build up on the exhaust port or muffler. Regardless of the oil you run, tune your saws. Get those jets dialed in and let those buggers sing!


I would like to add something I learned today. I saw a buddy's Husky 3120 torn down after running R-50 for a few years. It was full of carbon deposits. I'm not so sure now. He said he was switching to Lucas at 25:1. Sounds good to me. Honestly, what I saw startled me. Maybe it would be good to put the R-50 to rest. Food for thought. Best wishes!


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## jellyroll (Dec 28, 2020)

The last few tanks of mix in my saw has been supertech outboard oil mixed at 40:1 that is left over from my late summer early fall fishing trip. 
used it with out problems and no carbon build up to speak of.


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## Vibes (Dec 29, 2020)

HuskyP said:


> I would like to add something I learned today. I saw a buddy's Husky 3120 torn down after running R-50 for a few years. It was full of carbon deposits. I'm not so sure now. He said he was switching to Lucas at 25:1. Sounds good to me. Honestly, what I saw startled me. Maybe it would be good to put the R-50 to rest. Food for thought. Best wishes!


If you watch that video halfway through this post I'm thinking he said this very same thing. I've never run the Klotz because its not readily available here. The way I look at that is if it was as great as people say it is, the bike shops and *** dealers would stock it.


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## HuskyP (Dec 29, 2020)

After seeing what I saw, I spoke with a Klotz tech today and he suggested their 50:1 techniplate. He said to lay off the R-50. I'm taking my saws off the R-50 juice and going to Lucas. It's easier on my wallet and I've never heard a bad thing. More importantly, I'm going to retune my saws! Hone them in and run them hard!


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## HuskyP (Dec 29, 2020)

sean donato said:


> For what it's worth, I run klotz super techniplate in everything. Figured it was good enough for the old mans race boat, and our old dirt bikes, and sleds, good enough for my saws. And well every other 2 stroke powered piece of equipment and toy I have.


Spoke to a Klotz tech today. He said stay away from r-50 for chainsaws. 50:1 techniplate is good though. Have a good one!


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## Vibes (Dec 29, 2020)

HuskyP said:


> After seeing what I saw, I spoke with a Klotz tech today and he suggested their 50:1 techniplate. He said to lay off the R-50. I'm taking my saws off the R-50 juice and going to Lucas. It's easier on my wallet and I've never heard a bad thing. More importantly, I'm going to retune my saws! Hone them in and run them hard!


I'm still running the Woodsman Pro from Baileys but my supply is about gone and I don't know how their availability is anymore. Gonna check out the local Cycle Gear and hope they sell the Motul. If not I'll keep using the Lucas


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## HuskyP (Dec 29, 2020)

Now that I’m on to Lucas oil, I’m gonna retune, get a fresh grind, run full squirt, and tell y’all how it goes.


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## sean donato (Dec 29, 2020)

HuskyP said:


> Spoke to a Klotz tech today. He said stay away from r-50 for chainsaws. 50:1 techniplate is good though. Have a good one!


Our conversation revolved around 1 oil that I could use in all my 2 strokes. I believe i posted the email of his recommendations. Then after speaking to them I was recommended to go with the snowmobile techniplate because of the increased anti corrosion package in it. I still have about half a gallon of super techniplate. So when I'm done with that I'll get a gallon of the snowmobile oil. I dont have a problem with any of the other oils. We uses it specifically because it mixed with methonal. There are many great oils out there. Truthfully I dont think it matters what oil you run so long as it's good quality oil. With the choices we have today, i think its really hard to say one is the best. I like klotz, my old mans race boat held up with it, all my stuff holds up with it. Carbon hasn't been a major issue for me when I've had to tear down my equipment. I like to think I'm fair at tuning a carb, and decent at maintaining my equipment as well. Idk this is a never ending debate.


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## Canyon Angler (Dec 29, 2020)

sean donato said:


> Idk this is a never ending debate.


Omma go out on a limb here and say that it's definitely important to put oil into 2T fuel.


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## sean donato (Dec 29, 2020)

Canyon Angler said:


> Omma go out on a limb here and say that it's definitely important to put oil into 2T fuel.


Depends on how long you want the saw to last lol.....


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## OM617YOTA (Dec 29, 2020)

Anyone else waiting on PDQ to show up and mention oil injection systems on bikes/sleds/outboards/whatevers?


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## bwalker (Jan 14, 2021)

Its pretty simple guys. Use an actually certified Jaso FD oil and stop obsessing.
Avoid boat oils like the plague, avoid Stihl Ultra and avoid any oil that says it "meets" such and such spec, but isnt listed on the JASO list.


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## cookies (Jan 14, 2021)

after multiple comments to me on here I switched from orange stihl dino oil to a full synthetic made by schaffers..the viscosity difference in cool weather was huge being that the synthetic was much runnier and way easier to draw into my measuring syringe. I may switch back to the orange bottle during our 100 degree summers but I will use the synthetic in winter from now on. I also noticed a pretty good difference in the power the saw produced!


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## U&A (Jan 14, 2021)

I switched to dominator. 

My first gallon is supposed to be here today[emoji3526][emoji3526]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ol' Brian (Jan 14, 2021)

bwalker said:


> Its pretty simple guys. Use an actually certified Jaso FD oil and stop obsessing.
> Avoid boat oils like the plague, avoid Stihl Ultra and avoid any oil that says it "meets" such and such spec, but isnt listed on the JASO list.


Why avoid Stihl Ultra?


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## stihl023/5 (Jan 14, 2021)

Ol' Brian said:


> Why avoid Stihl Ultra?


Headaches


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## Squareground3691 (Jan 14, 2021)

MOTUL 2T 800 Full Synthetic


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## bwalker (Jan 14, 2021)

Ol' Brian said:


> Why avoid Stihl Ultra?


Because it's a poor product and formulated similar to a marine oil.


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## Lionsfan (Jan 14, 2021)

U&A said:


> I switched to dominator.
> 
> My first gallon is supposed to be here today[emoji3526][emoji3526]
> 
> ...


Why Dominator over Sabre?


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## Timber MacFallen (Jan 14, 2021)

I've never had any trouble with "Stihl HP Ultra" full synthetic and I've not seen any evidence it is dirty or has problems. 

Redbull661 put two gallons of Stihl mix through a 661 saw on a new piston and cylinder and then did the same for Husky, Echo and Tru-Fuel. No issues with the Stihl in the tear down:

 

Any of the top tier oils out there from Amsoil, Echo, Husky, Stihl, etc work great. Mix them accordingly and they should work well for you. Some oils are not intended to be mixed at heavy ratios as they may not burn well. For example, I run a synthetic oil in my dirt bike that is designed for a 32:1 mix.


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## bwalker (Jan 14, 2021)

Timber MacFallen said:


> I've never had any trouble with "Stihl HP Ultra" full synthetic and I've not seen any evidence it is dirty or has problems.
> 
> Redbull661 put two gallons of Stihl mix through a 661 saw on a new piston and cylinder and then did the same for Husky, Echo and Tru-Fuel. No issues with the Stihl in the tear down:
> 
> ...



Two gallons is pretty insignificant. And I dont believe Ultra is used in moto mix.


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## Timber MacFallen (Jan 14, 2021)

bwalker said:


> Two gallons is pretty insignificant. And I dont believe Ultra is used in moto mix.


It is insignificant-depending on what you're looking for that is. No one outside of a lab setting is going to run new saws for 500 hours on various formulations to check for predictive patterns.

I see posts online where people say they ran a tank of "XYZ oil" and it was dirty, smoky, ran poorly and clogged their saw, blah blah blah. I think 2 gallons is enough to illustrate that Stihl is capable of producing fuel that isn't a total disaster.

Whether they blend the motomix with the same oil formulation that's available in Stihl Ultra HP I can't say. 

People treat oil like a religion when the truth of the matter is that mixing the correct ratio with fresh fuel goes a lot further to giving you years of service rather than the specific brand (among top tier oils). Sure, bargain basement 2T oils are to be avoided, but the top brands all work fine.


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## bwalker (Jan 14, 2021)

Timber MacFallen said:


> It is insignificant-depending on what you're looking for that is. No one outside of a lab setting is going to run new saws for 500 hours on various formulations to check for predictive patterns.
> 
> I see posts online where people say they ran a tank of "XYZ oil" and it was dirty, smoky, ran poorly and clogged their saw, blah blah blah. I think 2 gallons is enough to illustrate that Stihl is capable of producing fuel that isn't a total disaster.
> 
> ...


Your right. Most people observations are anecdotal at best.
I just checked motomix does indeed contain Ultra.
You can doubt my comments on Ultra if you like, but keep in mind that it is rated JASO FB, which is a standard from the 80's. The JASO tests are actual tests, not a back yard trial.
JASO FD oils are light years better and formulated very differently.
Which is why you cant go wrong with an actually certified FD oil.
In regards to your last comment. I completely agree. In fact guys in search of the best running eater oils often dont consider the fact that such oils provide almost no corrosion protection and when combined with ethanol fuel contribute to even more issues like phase separation and corrosion.


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## OM617YOTA (Jan 14, 2021)

I didn't like the burning plastic smell of Ultra.

Still think that more saws are killed by bad tuning than running the wrong oil.


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## bwalker (Jan 14, 2021)

OM617YOTA said:


> I didn't like the burning plastic smell of Ultra.
> 
> Still think that more saws are killed by bad tuning than running the wrong oil.


Air leaks kill many too, as do dirty air filters.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 14, 2021)

The fuel it's self can caus drastically different wash patterns even when using the same oil.


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## bwalker (Jan 14, 2021)

Andyshine77 said:


> The fuel it's self can caus drastically different wash patterns even when using the same oil.


No doubt. The fuel even changes by the load. I work in oil refining currently and you guys would be shocked what makes it into the gasoline pool.


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## OM617YOTA (Jan 14, 2021)

What kind of electrons do y'all run in your battery saws? Coal fired electrons give me the most fizz, nuclear is tops for solid quiet power, hydro works fine, but I can't stand solar and wind. Too much solar and wind and my saw starts growing a man bun and craving craft brewed bar oil, and will only cut free range trees. Luckily that's not much of a problem, as the availability is low.


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## U&A (Jan 15, 2021)

Lionsfan said:


> Why Dominator over Sabre?



Because of @Egg Shooter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sean donato (Jan 15, 2021)

OM617YOTA said:


> I didn't like the burning plastic smell of Ultra.
> 
> Still think that more saws are killed by bad tuning than running the wrong oil.


Or the pounding headache after you've been running a saw on it for a wile.


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## U&A (Jan 15, 2021)

Lionsfan said:


> Why Dominator over Sabre?



A guy i know did a really cool oil test. Dominator beat saber...[emoji1303]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sean donato (Jan 15, 2021)

This subject


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## OM617YOTA (Jan 15, 2021)

sean donato said:


> Or the pounding headache after you've been running a saw on it for a wile.



Never had that happen, but different oils will definitely mess with my sinuses badly. Bar oil does it too.


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## bwalker (Jan 17, 2021)

Timber MacFallen said:


> I've never had any trouble with "Stihl HP Ultra" full synthetic and I've not seen any evidence it is dirty or has problems.
> 
> Redbull661 put two gallons of Stihl mix through a 661 saw on a new piston and cylinder and then did the same for Husky, Echo and Tru-Fuel. No issues with the Stihl in the tear down:
> 
> ...



One other thing to consider is the piston crown of the Ultra ran saw is by far the dirtiest. The most critical part of an engine deposit wise is the piston ring grooves, which I have no doubt the stihl would carbon up over time. As this happens ring mobility goes down and you begin to hammer the rings which shortens their life.
The other thing is the reason Uktra stinks so bad is because it uses an ashless amine dispersent technology just like marine oils run. Makes.sense given ultra was designed to deal with sulfated ash deposit issues when used in 4mix engines.


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## U&A (Jan 17, 2021)

I never understood why guys cant have a conversation about oil and not get butt hurt. Who cares if its a long standing subject that keeps going in a circles Its just oil and we are on a chat/forum. We all have opinions and experiences and like to share them. Sharing, talking and helping is the point of this forum. 

When people hear what they dont want or they hear somthing that contradicts their own experiences they get mad or defensive instead of trying to have a conversation about it. My last oil choice I thought was the best yet. Well it was for me at the time. Then someone introduced me to their experiences. I learned some things and now i dont use that oil anymore. 

Thick skin required.

Iv used
Echo
Sthil hp
Husky xp
Amsoil saber
Dominator 
Redline
Motul 800




Iv had similar experiences at different mix ratios with all of them (but one that i dont have hardly any time on yet) and that is ....they all run dirty and cause what I personally think is to much carbon. Some more than others. 

Im no professional, just some joe shmoe that wants to run a oil that seems to be the best from the things iv read/seen/heard myself or from others and their experiences.

Hope You fellas have a good day and if you don’t like oil threads you don’t have to be in one.

I’ve been in an oil thread on another form for five years and it still going strong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bwalker (Jan 17, 2021)

U&A said:


> I never understood why guys cant have a conversation about oil and not get butt hurt. Who cares if its a long standing subject that keeps going in a circles Its just oil and we are on a chat/forum. We all have opinions and experiences and like to share them. Sharing, talking and helping is the point of this forum.
> 
> When people hear what they dont want or they hear somthing that contradicts their own experiences they get mad or defensive instead of trying to have a conversation about it. My last oil choice I thought was the best yet. Well it was for me at the time. Then someone introduced me to their experiences. I learned some things and now i dont use that oil anymore.
> 
> ...


I'm curious as what your opinion of dirty is? And I don't ask this with any mallace.


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## U&A (Jan 17, 2021)

bwalker said:


> I'm curious as what your opinion of dirty is? And I don't ask this with any mallace.



Just mean carbon. All I’m doing is trying to minimize the amount. There are a few of them have created much less than others. 


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## Squareground3691 (Jan 17, 2021)

MOTUL 2T 800 ( HOTSAW 101) approved check out his YouTube channel about this oil its pretty informative


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## bwalker (Jan 17, 2021)

U&A said:


> Just mean carbon. All I’m doing is trying to minimize the amount. There are a few of them have created much less than others.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All motors produce some carbon, even four strokes. Completely normal.


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## OM617YOTA (Jan 17, 2021)

I miss MX2T.


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## U&A (Jan 17, 2021)

bwalker said:


> All motors produce some carbon, even four strokes. Completely normal.



I know

But im trying to minimize it[emoji1303][emoji1303]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sean donato (Jan 18, 2021)

U&A said:


> I never understood why guys cant have a conversation about oil and not get butt hurt. Who cares if its a long standing subject that keeps going in a circles Its just oil and we are on a chat/forum. We all have opinions and experiences and like to share them. Sharing, talking and helping is the point of this forum.
> 
> When people hear what they dont want or they hear somthing that contradicts their own experiences they get mad or defensive instead of trying to have a conversation about it. My last oil choice I thought was the best yet. Well it was for me at the time. Then someone introduced me to their experiences. I learned some things and now i dont use that oil anymore.
> 
> ...


Because it always come around to the same name calling finger pointing and in general no one like the oil the other guy runs. Its perfectly normal, and it ultimately boils down to run whatever you'd like. There are so many good oils out there it ultimately doesnt matter.


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## KASH (Jan 18, 2021)

I have been working off and on cutting pulp for 50 years.I have used saws that used 8to1 oil to gas mix.Most of the saws in the first twenty years were 20to1 the old oils were automobile oil.There were very very few saws that failed due to the oil.Over the years I have probably talked to several thousand of men who cut wood for a living 5 days a week.In all the converastions I had I never heard anyone say that one batch of gas was unbearable to take but another was like a breath of fresh air.I never heard anyone say Shell oil aggravated their sinuses but Esso was okay. I never heard a cutter say I had to go back back to camp on Monday because my gas mix was too smelly The only fuel related one that stands out in my mind is a couple of guys said and I agree ethanol gas fumes are hard on the eyes when cutting.
Kash


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## bwalker (Jan 19, 2021)

Squareground3691 said:


> MOTUL 2T 800 ( HOTSAW 101) approved check out his YouTube channel about this oil its pretty informative


He makes some cool videos and is obviously a talented faller.
With that said I think he has a very limited grasp of lubrication.


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## Squareground3691 (Jan 19, 2021)

I think he being a faller for 35 plus years and building saws for almost as long and the research he does makes him qualified !!


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## bwalker (Jan 19, 2021)

Squareground3691 said:


> I think he being a faller for 35 plus years and building saws for almost as long and the research he does makes him qualified !!


Being a to notch faller, or engine builder doesnt in any way make one qualified to discuss lubrication in and of its self. Nice guy, but clearly he mis interprets certain aspects and is just flat out mistaken in others.


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## FinnKamp (Jan 19, 2021)

I use premixed Aspen 2 stroke fuel or Stihl 4 mixed (1:50) with Motul Offroad 800. Will never go back to pump fuel with small engines.


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## Squareground3691 (Jan 19, 2021)

Unless u have a Phd in chemical engineering, practical experience is the next best thing


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## bwalker (Jan 19, 2021)

FinnKamp said:


> I use premixed Aspen 2 stroke fuel or Stihl 4 mixed (1:50) with Motul Offroad 800. Will never go back to pump fuel with small engines.


The thing about Aspen, Tru Fuel, etc is the price borders on insane. Probably not a bad option for seldomly used equipment.


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## bwalker (Jan 19, 2021)

Squareground3691 said:


> Unless u have a Phd in chemical engineering, practical experience is the next best thing


You don't need a PHD or even an engineering degree, although neither hurt.
The information is out there on alot of this stuff. You just have to sift through alot of crap and misinformation to find it.
With that said most of this oil stuff amounts to pole vaulting over mouse turds. Its just doesn't matter that much as long as you use the correct type of oil.


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## FinnKamp (Jan 19, 2021)

bwalker said:


> The thing about Aspen, Tru Fuel, etc is the price borders on insane. Probably not a bad option for seldomly used equipment.


The difference in pricing here is not as big as it is in United States. 98 RON E5 gasoline costs around 1.6 € per litre and bargain prices for Aspen 2T have been around 3 € , sometimes even 2.50€.
Price is not a big issue as my consumption is around 10 litres of 2 stroke fuel per year.
I also use 4 stroke small engine fuel with the lawnmower. Totally hassle-free first starts in May, always on the first pull, with pump fuel six pulls was just the beginning.


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## Squareground3691 (Jan 19, 2021)

MOTUL 800 2T transcends in large part from two stroke World of top Road and Motocross Racing teams makes a great choice for ur saws .


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## bwalker (Jan 19, 2021)

Squareground3691 said:


> MOTUL 800 2T transcends in large part from two stroke World of top Road and Motocross Racing teams makes a great choice for ur saws .


Motul 800 is a high quality oil. That doesnt make it the best choice for a saw. For starters ester oils offer little to no corrosion protection.
Why would one think that an oil designed for high output, high strung racing machines operated under heavy loads is optimal for a low strung, low out put, disposable piece of equipment operated under low loads?


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## Squareground3691 (Jan 19, 2021)

Never said it was the best oil to use , choice is up to who ever wants to use it l believe if ur a faller or sell wood for living ur using ur saws pretty hard for hours on end at relatively high rpms in blazing heat or freezing cold and hopefully ur not throwing saws away often, there rather expensive if ported


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## bwalker (Jan 19, 2021)

Squareground3691 said:


> Never said it was the best oil to use , choice is up to who ever wants to use it l believe if ur a faller or sell wood for living ur using ur saws pretty hard for hours on end at relatively high rpms in blazing heat or freezing cold and hopefully ur not throwing saws away often, there rather expensive if ported


Loggers in my old neck of the woods use a saw for two seasons max. It then either gets given away, saved for parts or put on a log truck to trim ends. I don't know if a one of them would even know what a ported saw is. Often they run factory mix oil or some of the more frugal ones run el cheapo Walmart boat oil. All at 50:1.
When I logged I ran mostly stock saws and used whatever oil I was running in my bikes at 32:1. I can't say for certain that I got better life out of my saws than the guys running factory mix oil. Of course this was in the early 2000's before strato saws and all that.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 19, 2021)

Squareground3691 said:


> I think he being a faller for 35 plus years and building saws for almost as long and the research he does makes him qualified !!


He may be the best faller, and may build a ok saw if you have a grand for a port job. But I tried to talk with him, and all I have to say is the dude is a jerk, and that's putting it nicely, so he lost all credibility with me after my interaction with him.


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## bwalker (Jan 19, 2021)

Andyshine77 said:


> He is a tool faller, and may build a ok saw if you have a grand for a port job. I tried to talk with him, and all I have to say is the dude is a jerk, and that's putting it nicely, so he lost all credibility with me after my interaction with him.


He is a bit out there..


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 19, 2021)

bwalker said:


> Motul 800 is a high quality oil. That doesnt make it the best choice for a saw. For starters ester oils offer little to no corrosion protection.
> Why would one think that an oil designed for high output, high strung racing machines operated under heavy loads is optimal for a low strung, low out put, disposable piece of equipment operated under low loads?


Motul 800 works fine in saws, but may not always fully combust. The corrosion argument has been over exaggerated especially in a chainsaws IMHO.


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## bwalker (Jan 19, 2021)

Andyshine77 said:


> Motul 800 works fine in saws, but may not always fully combust. The corrosion argument has probably over exaggerated especially in a chainsaws.


Not fully combusting isnt my idea of fine, but that's just me. If you tune it pretty sharp and run aggressive chain it will burn ok, at least it did in a modified MS260 I had. I would bet it would be decent for milling.
For those living in humid areas, those that run ethanol fuel or those that store their saws for long period of time corrosion is very much an issue. I live in Montana now where it's pretty damn dry. But with that said I am not running saws as very often at all so I always lay them up with avgas/20:1 mineral oil.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 19, 2021)

I keep my saws I'm a garage that gets very humid in the summer and I have many saws that sit for a year at a time, I have never seen any corrosion problems. I'm guessing the info you have is dated to the early esther and castor oils from Klotz and Red line.


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## Treenado (Jan 19, 2021)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just try this VPracing rated FD 100% Cost rounded up $7 per 16oz so say $14 a quart. Can buy anywhere it seems.
> 
> View attachment 869814


this is the 2cycle oil i use.. i run my saws 40:1 i have older saws that say 25:1 been running this 40:1 in them no problem.. i cannot bring myself to run 50:1. i just recently went to 40:1 and i worry sometimes... hahaha


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## Treenado (Jan 19, 2021)

oh, i didn’t care for the Echo Red armor 2cycle oil.. didn’t run that great in my saws. states it has some properties that supposedly “cleans” carbon off of old engines while running..pfffftt Junk!


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## bwalker (Jan 19, 2021)

Andyshine77 said:


> I keep my saws I'm a garage that gets very humid in the summer and I have many saws that sit for a year at a time, I have never seen any corrosion problems. I'm guessing the info you have is dated to the early esther and castor oils from Klotz and Red line.


No, not dated at all.
Most of the ester oils mentioned on this page were available 20+ years ago. With the decline in two cycle motorcycles very little new development has been done.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 20, 2021)

bwalker said:


> No, not dated at all.
> Most of the ester oils mentioned on this page were available 20+ years ago. With the decline in two cycle motorcycles very little new development has been done.


Most of the manufacturers have updated the formulas, Motul, Maxima, Amsoil and others. K2 was reformulated about ten years ago, Motul 800 about 6, and 710 in it's self not that old. Companies like Klotz are too small for that investment. So I would say some of your info is outdated IMHO.


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## bwalker (Jan 20, 2021)

Andyshine77 said:


> Most of the manufacturers have updated the formulas, Motul, Maxima, Amsoil and others. K2 was reformulated about ten years ago, Motul 800 about 6, and 710 in it's self not that old. Companies like Klotz are too small for that investment. So I would say some of your info is outdated IMHO.


Update or not the physical properties of esters have not changed.
It's also worth noting that most of the newer oils and those that are FD rated do not use a straight ester formula. There are reasons for this.


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## Goinwheelin (Jan 20, 2021)

Delo sae 30 is my favorite. Keeps the mosquitoes away.


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## bwalker (Jan 20, 2021)

Goinwheelin said:


> Delo sae 30 is my favorite. Keeps the mosquitoes away.


I bet it would.!


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## southpaw (Jan 21, 2021)

Great thread I read all the posts over the last 2 days ;
I appreciate all comments and it helped me finally make a decision on what to buy for 2 cycle oil .

I have been buying stihl oil for the past few mainly because of brand name reputation , no other reason than that but never liked the pricing of it.

After reading all these posts I went to tractor supply and bought a 16 oz. bottle of the VP full synthetic 2 cycle oil for $7.99 and going to be using that and I am also going to get a gallon of the Motul 710 T2

Never paid any attention to what really goes into making a quality oil just made the common uninformed consumer opinion that the brand name and higher cost make the better product , not very wise but probably very common . So thanks to all who posted and I respect your experience as it helped me make an informed decision this time around .
Also I bought a new saw this week ( Echo Cs590 ) again this decision was made by the outstanding comments I have read here on this site , this took me about 2 weeks to finally nail my choice down by reading many posts , another purchase was a new pair of Red Wing boots but I was able to figure that one out on my own.

You guys offer some great information and enjoy reading your posts


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## southpaw (Jan 21, 2021)

Huskybill said:


> The pumpkin pancakes I can’t get enough of them. Even good whole wheat pancakes but butter milk are good some days. Good real maple syrup.
> 
> Pumpkin syrup yummy just a little will do. There’s a guy here selling fresh maple syrup too. Good real stuff. No “IHOP” needed. We use fresh Amish roll butter too.
> 
> ...





JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just to show ya. Lot of folks like stihl ultra silver bottle the highest priced stuff I know of. It shows only FB. I wont touch the stuff myself by choice.
> 
> I have got alot of folks off that stuff here local. If I recall right even silver bottle poulan synthetic is FD
> 
> View attachment 870166


I got lot of folks off the stuff 
yep you sure did


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## southpaw (Jan 21, 2021)

Huskybill said:


> The pumpkin pancakes I can’t get enough of them. Even good whole wheat pancakes but butter milk are good some days. Good real maple syrup.
> 
> Pumpkin syrup yummy just a little will do. There’s a guy here selling fresh maple syrup too. Good real stuff. No “IHOP” needed. We use fresh Amish roll butter too.
> 
> ...





JeremiahJohnson said:


> Just to show ya. Lot of folks like stihl ultra silver bottle the highest priced stuff I know of. It shows only FB. I wont touch the stuff myself by choice.
> 
> I have got alot of folks off that stuff here local. If I recall right even silver bottle poulan synthetic is FD
> 
> View attachment 870166


I got lot of folks off the stuff 
yep you sure did


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## bwalker (Jan 21, 2021)

southpaw said:


> I got lot of folks off the stuff
> yep you sure did


It's still useful in a 4mix engine if your having deposit issues.


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## notmyj (Jan 21, 2021)

Dare I say it... I run Amsoil Sabre at 80:1 mixed with 100LL AvGas. That's all my 2 strokes have ever seen, even while I owned my landscaping company. Never had anything fail, never had a single no start even after sitting for months. Hell, the first trimmer I bought, a Sthil fs 90(?) Is still running 11 years later at my dad's. (After 5 years of commercial use, everyday 8 months a year) I lent it to him when his died, and I never asked for it back so long as he only runs the fuel I give him.

I know a lot of guys hate it and the thought of 80:1 will make some cry, but it works for me without so much a hiccup.


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## southpaw (Jan 21, 2021)

I honestly did not have an opinion on the performance of the Sthil oil as it has worked well for me it was mostly the cost factor and when I bought the new Echo Cs590 the other day the sales guy was telling me that I should use Echo oil or problems may occur ......I was not buying that line and that's what started my search here on 2 cycle oils .( Did I buy the Echo oil, NO)
What was funny he opened up 1 echo bar oil jug and then a different brand of bar oil and was showing me how different and more tacky the echo oil was and it would be wise to use the Echo bar oil .....my reply was there is no difference in those 2 bar oils other than the price !

I mean are tacky bar oils really that different ? I have always just bought cheapest stuff I could find but is that the way to go, now I am wondering about that also but not really worried about it


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## bwalker (Jan 21, 2021)

southpaw said:


> I honestly did not have an opinion on the performance of the Sthil oil as it has worked well for me it was mostly the cost factor and when I bought the new Echo Cs590 the other day the sales guy was telling me that I should use Echo oil or problems may occur ......I was not buying that line and that's what started my search here on 2 cycle oils .( Did I buy the Echo oil, NO)
> What was funny he opened up 1 echo bar oil jug and then a different brand of bar oil and was showing me how different and more tacky the echo oil was and it would be wise to use the Echo bar oil .....my reply was there is no difference in those 2 bar oils other than the price !
> 
> I mean are tacky bar oils really that different ? I have always just bought cheapest stuff I could find but is that the way to go, now I am wondering about that also but not really worried about it


I have run Walmart Supertech bar oil for years. I sure haven't had any bar or chain problems with it.
I really dont think it matters a whole lot on what bar oil you use.
Stihl bar oil is more tacky IMO.


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## southpaw (Jan 21, 2021)

bwalker said:


> I have run Walmart Supertech bar oil for years. I sure haven't had any bar or chain problems with it.
> I really dont think it matters a whole lot on what bar oil you use.
> Stihl bar oil is more tacky IMO.


Thats kind of how I was thinking , I bought a jug at a different store , think it was countryside bar oil and half the price of what he was pushing


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## cookies (Jan 21, 2021)

i buy the elcheapo bar oil and add whatever leftover atf I have laying around to it at around 10-25% esp in winter. What everyone is calling carbon looks more like tar or soot buildup from incomplete burning than the hard chalky white stuff I call carbon..Lubrication never seems to be the issue instead it is power reduction, incomplete burning, chemical reactions from burning and chemical reactions to plastic/rubber all seem to be tho. Does anyone ever turn their saws upside down after storage to allow residual crankcase oil to drip into the cylinder/rings as every time a saw is put away the first restart is a few really tough pulls until fresh mix gets in the cylinder.


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## jellyroll (Jan 22, 2021)

bwalker said:


> It's still useful in a 4mix engine if your having deposit issues.


Thought i would ask if you know the difference between that new echo power blend gold that is out that replaced power blend x. Both are FD rated but that is all i know.


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## arbpro200t (Apr 23, 2021)

Country bumpkin said:


> Alota oil threads out there. I like the synthetics because of the cleaner burning. Stihl, Opti2, Amsoil, Lucas, Klotz, etc... all perform well. Just be sure to mix what’s recommended & sleep well with it.


How long have you ram Lucas switching over to large quantities and getting away from the small bottles, mixed 5 gallons up but haven’t ran it yet because I was wondering about it not be “certified “


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## sean donato (Apr 23, 2021)

arbpro200t said:


> How long have you ram Lucas switching over to large quantities and getting away from the small bottles, mixed 5 gallons up but haven’t ran it yet because I was wondering about it not be “certified “


Because the didn't bother to spend the money to get it certified. Which doesn't mean it's an inferior oil imo.


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## TBS (Apr 23, 2021)

Just for you fuel sniffers.





Amazon.com: Manhattan Oil Fuel Scent 2 Pack - Rocket Cotton Candy : Health & Household


Buy Manhattan Oil Fuel Scent 2 Pack - Rocket Cotton Candy: Aromatherapy - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## OM617YOTA (Apr 23, 2021)

TheBrushSlasher said:


> Just for you fuel sniffers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I tried the Jeg's pumpkin spice scent in my diesel. Even at 2x the dosage, I didn't smell a danged thing out the exhaust. Two years and countless fillups later, I still smell pumpkin spice when I open the fuel cap to refuel.

Kinda proud that my truck defeated the pumpkin spice army.


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## Andyshine77 (Apr 23, 2021)

About the cotton candy one years ago, cool for a few minutes, than you get tired of it.


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## North by Northwest (Apr 23, 2021)

sean donato said:


> Because the didn't bother to spend the money to get it certified. Which doesn't mean it's an inferior oil imo.


Yes , Lucas Premium Synthetic is a good Product , perhaps not Excellent , however better than a lot of over the counter oils !


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## bwalker (Apr 23, 2021)

sean donato said:


> Because the didn't bother to spend the money to get it certified. Which doesn't mean it's an inferior oil imo.


And it doesnt mean it isnt. No one really knows.


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## bwalker (Apr 23, 2021)

jellyroll said:


> Thought i would ask if you know the difference between that new echo power blend gold that is out that replaced power blend x. Both are FD rated but that is all i know.


I dont.


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## North by Northwest (Apr 23, 2021)

bwalker said:


> And it doesnt mean it isnt. No one really knows.


It's ok , I have ran it in snowmobiles , gas trimmers and in a pinch my Dolmar saws @ 40 :1 or 50:1 no foul , no harm . I prefer other oils over it , that we both have utilized bw !


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## sean donato (Apr 23, 2021)

Broken said:


> It's ok , I have ran it in snowmobiles , gas trimmers and in a pinch my Dolmar saws @ 40 :1 or 50:1 no foul , no harm . I prefer other oils over it , that we both have utilized bw !


No can't be good oil, thy didn't get the the testing done, has to be garbage. I mean a reputable company made it, didn't feel like getting it rated so it could or could not be oil that may or may not protect your 2 stroke properly or unproperly. Oh please. Just because they didn't get the rating doesn't mean the oil is bad.


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## cookies (Apr 23, 2021)

any one still run sae 30 weight oil in their saws still since that was the original OG mix


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## North by Northwest (Apr 24, 2021)

sean donato said:


> No can't be good oil, thy didn't get the the testing done, has to be garbage. I mean a reputable company made it, didn't feel like getting it rated so it could or could not be oil that may or may not protect your 2 stroke properly or unproperly. Oh please. Just because they didn't get the rating doesn't mean the oil is bad.


So , where did I say it was bad ? Roflmao !


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## sean donato (Apr 24, 2021)

Broken said:


> So , where did I say it was bad ? Roflmao !


Ah, no I should have quoted the quote from bwalker. Not you lol.


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## North by Northwest (Apr 24, 2021)

sean donato said:


> Ah, no I should have quoted the quote from bwalker. Not you lol.


No foul Sean , lol. I knew you had misquoted . Actually , I have a gallon of the Lucas semi synthetic product in the oil cabinet as a back up oil , that I still run my gas trimmer with . Its a blended oil that is quite effective within reduced smoke production in close quarter use , just a reliable all around user product . If it was full synthetic such as Maxima 927 or 800 T or Sabre I would use it even more . Being low ash it was also effective within reduction of build up on the power valves on my Polaris 700 liberty engine , which is a priority . I would rate it as a solid FC specification oil , not quite a FD compliant oil within my various application usages . A quality oil all the same !


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## Ted Jenkins (Apr 24, 2021)

bwalker said:


> I have run Walmart Supertech bar oil for years. I sure haven't had any bar or chain problems with it.
> I really dont think it matters a whole lot on what bar oil you use.
> Stihl bar oil is more tacky IMO.


For more than ten years have been using mostly Supertech 20-50 for bar oil. Prior to Walmart what ever parts stores carried and of course worked fine. On all my saws have tweaked the oil pump a little so that after a fuel tank the oil is gone too. I have a couple of saws that I have been using for more than forty years. From racing and building race motors I have noticed that there does not exist a perfect two stroke oil. All oils have pros and cons. When My son was racing we had a heck of a time keeping his engines in one piece because they were not running warm enough. Some oils work better in some conditions than others. For at least thirty years I did not have to buy two stroke oil because it was supplied so would mix five gallons to ten gallons a week. There was always premix left over for chain saws. The last few years when I have had to buy oil I have settled on Supertech which I have had no issues with and have torn down a couple of motors to see nothing unusual. A well tuned motor will give an extra ordinary service life that often out last OP. Thanks


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## North by Northwest (Apr 24, 2021)

Ted Jenkins said:


> For more than ten years have been using mostly Supertech 20-50 for bar oil. Prior to Walmart what ever parts stores carried and of course worked fine. On all my saws have tweaked the oil pump a little so that after a fuel tank the oil is gone too. I have a couple of saws that I have been using for more than forty years. From racing and building race motors I have noticed that there does not exist a perfect two stroke oil. All oils have pros and cons. When My son was racing we had a heck of a time keeping his engines in one piece because they were not running warm enough. Some oils work better in some conditions than others. For at least thirty years I did not have to buy two stroke oil because it was supplied so would mix five gallons to ten gallons a week. There was always premix left over for chain saws. The last few years when I have had to buy oil I have settled on Supertech which I have had no issues with and have torn down a couple of motors to see nothing unusual. A well tuned motor will give an extra ordinary service life that often out last OP. Thanks


Same here Ted , during my younger years , had Sponsorship from Quaker State & Sunoco for oil & fuel during my snowmobile racing days , always had extra Premix laying around for saws & other 2 stroke units lol. I even used Super Tech Marine grade oil for my outboards during the 80 's . It was price friendly & a quality oil at the time. The good old days..eh bud !


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## Den (Apr 24, 2021)

I have used Amsoil Full Synthetic from day one. Works great and never had an issue with engine failure. Also, I always use high octane, non-ethanol gasoline in two-stroke stuff.

I use Amsoil in cars, trucks, line trimmers, chainsaws, riding tractor, push mower, 4x4 Diesel utility tractor, everything. 

Also use a slight bit of "Stabil" additive in each can of two-stroke fuel I mix up. Store in a metal can, in a temperature controlled environment. Never let it sit around for more than three weeks. Always shake the can before using. And if the saw has sat for a day or two with 3/4 tank in it... shake the saw to mix whats already in the tank.
.


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## North by Northwest (Apr 24, 2021)

Den said:


> I have used Amsoil Full Synthetic from day one. Works great and never had an issue with engine failure. Also, I always use high octane, non-ethanol gasoline in two-stroke stuff.
> 
> I use Amsoil in cars, trucks, line trimmers, chainsaws, riding tractor, push mower, 4x4 Diesel utility tractor, everything.
> 
> ...


If your using Saber Den , you will not require any fuel stabilizer . It already has a additive within the blend . I used Amsoil for 10 yrs without any fuel related issues . Good preventative measures though !


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