# mechanical advantage climbing line



## Tree Pig (Apr 21, 2009)

Im sure this is possible but not sure if it is worth the time and effort of setting up, but has anyone ever set double pulleys on a climbing line. At 43 and 275 any thing that would make it less work would be good.


example


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## Ghillie (Apr 21, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Im sure this is possible but not sure if it is worth the time and effort of setting up, but has anyone ever set double pulleys on a climbing line. At 43 and 275 any thing that would make it less work would be good.
> 
> 
> example



Yes they have and I cannot think of where on here I saw the pictures. It wasn't quite set up the way you have it though.

They used revolver carabiners, the ones with the sheave built into them.

Actually, I think I saw the pictures on another forum... I will see if I can find them.


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## Tree Pig (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks appreciate that. The pic was just something I had in my head.


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## Ghillie (Apr 21, 2009)

I cannot remember where I saw it now. I am sorry.

But I will try my best to describe it.

This is using a hitch climber setup. What I remember seeing was the running line that came out of the micro pulley tending your hitch going up to another pulley (the picture showed a revolver) attached to your working portion of your rope coming out of the top of your friction hitch (distel, vt etc...)

In my mind, it made a 2:1 on the hitch side of DdRT (which is already 2:1) so it should make it 4:1.


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## Ghillie (Apr 21, 2009)

Basically move the top pulley in your drawing over to the other line going up.


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## treemandan (Apr 21, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> Basically move the top pulley in your drawing over to the other line going up.



I think if the pulley you are talking about is put there it will work until the pulley system closes ( runs out of rigged rope). I don't know what you would do then.


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## Ghillie (Apr 21, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I think if the pulley you are talking about is put there it will work until the pulley system closes ( runs out of rigged rope). I don't know what you would do then.



If I remember (if) right, it was on a htich also. so when you run out of rigging room, you reset.


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## Tree Pig (Apr 21, 2009)

The idea I was thinking of is having the second one (left) off on a split tail or eye to eye using the pulley only for assist but you would have to tend it by hand. keeping it on the load end would keep it from bunching with the other one and climbing with my right on the working end it would leave my left to tend the second pulley. When ready to descend just remove the hitch and pulley and head down


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## treemandan (Apr 21, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> If I remember (if) right, it was on a htich also. so when you run out of rigging room, you reset.



Yes, though I would perfer a mechaincal acsender over a friction hitch. I guess to would move it up along with everything else as you went. Its not like you can just reach up 20 feet to reset the pulley.

I think just a good srt system is better, I think. Each pull up is exactly that, in the end you use the same amount of energy. With a pulley system you don't travel as far with each pull.


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## Tree Pig (Apr 21, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> If I remember (if) right, it was on a htich also. so when you run out of rigging room, you reset.



yeah what he said


I am sure I had seen this somewhere also but dont remember and cant find it


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## treemandan (Apr 21, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> The idea I was thinking of is having the second one (left) off on a split tail or eye to eye using the pulley only for assist but you would have to tend it by hand. keeping it on the load end would keep it from bunching with the other one and climbing with my right on the working end it would leave my left to tend the second pulley. When ready to descend just remove the hitch and pulley and head down



If you pull the end of the rope which you have depicted in the first pic you will not go anywhere.


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## Tree Pig (Apr 21, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Yes, though I would perfer a mechaincal acsender over a friction hitch. I guess to would move it up along with everything else as you went. Its not like you can just reach up 20 feet to reset the pulley.
> 
> I think just a good srt system is better, I think. Each pull up is exactly that, in the end you use the same amount of energy. With a pulley system you don't travel as far with each pull.



In theory it should be half the energy and much cheaper then setting up a SRT system ($30 for a new pulley).


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## Ghillie (Apr 21, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Yes, though I would perfer a mechaincal acsender over a friction hitch. I guess to would move it up along with everything else as you went. Its not like you can just reach up 20 feet to reset the pulley.
> 
> I think just a good srt system is better, I think. Each pull up is exactly that, in the end you use the same amount of energy. With a pulley system you don't travel as far with each pull.



Good point on the SRT. You would be using a much larger muscle group that way, getting your legs involved. You have tofigure out what is more efficient for your preferred way of climbing without a huge expediture on new gear.

Stihl-o-matic, I'll keep looking. It may take a day or two but I'll keep looking in case nothing else comes up.


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## Tree Pig (Apr 21, 2009)

treemandan said:


> If you pull the end of the rope which you have depicted in the first pic you will not go anywhere.



Why not? The pic was just a quick drawing so its rough. But the bottom is a hitch (for me blakes... distel or VT soon hopefully) with a pulley tending it. then instead of going down it wraps back up over second pulley and down so when tending slack I am pulling straight down with extra help instead of kinda out and up.
*
IN MY MIND IT WORKS AWESOME*


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## treemandan (Apr 21, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Why not? The pic was just a quick drawing so its rough. But the bottom is a hitch (for me blakes... distel or VT soon hopefully) with a pulley tending it. then instead of going down it wraps back up over second pulley and down so when tending slack I am pulling straight down with extra help instead of kinda out and up.
> *
> IN MY MIND IT WORKS AWESOME*



the second ( high ) pulley is connected to the other side of your taughtline loop which has to move upwards when you acsend. If you are pulling it down...
Maybe I am not seeing it right, set it up in the field and give it a go.


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## Adkpk (Apr 21, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> IN MY MIND IT WORKS AWESOME[/COLOR][/B]



:monkey:


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## treemandan (Apr 21, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> Good point on the SRT. You would be using a much larger muscle group that way, getting your legs involved. You have tofigure out what is more efficient for your preferred way of climbing without a huge expediture on new gear.
> 
> Stihl-o-matic, I'll keep looking. It may take a day or two but I'll keep looking in case nothing else comes up.



Not only that but each time you strecth out, grab and pull you are getting a full extension. This is more efficient than short pulls also its better for your body to fully extend. Like in weight lifting. full extension, muscle memory.


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## Ghillie (Apr 22, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> In theory it should be half the energy and much cheaper then setting up a SRT system ($30 for a new pulley).



What about using a pantin to get your legs involved? instead of making it easier for your upper body, get your legs working too.

I have tried that before with a gibbs ascender and a loop of webbing to put my foot through. I tailed the line up to my harness so I could pull slack through the ascender without bending over everytime.







> IN MY MIND IT WORKS AWESOME



It always does......doesn't it? I hear what you're sayin'.


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## Tree Pig (Apr 22, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> What about using a pantin to get your legs involved? instead of making it easier for your upper body, get your legs working too.
> 
> I have tried that before with a gibbs ascender and a loop of webbing to put my foot through. I tailed the line up to my harness so I could pull slack through the ascender without bending over everytime.
> 
> ...




The only reason I have resisted ascenders is I like being being able to go up and down at will without having to remove or add anything. Yes I understand this would also mean any long decent would mean removing the top pulley. But if it saved me some energy to get in the tree it would be awesome.


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## LTREES (Apr 23, 2009)

treemandan said:


> If you pull the end of the rope which you have depicted in the first pic you will not go anywhere.



Your right Dan It doesn't work, tried it tonight. There has got to be a way to set up a pulley system.

LT...


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## md_tree_dood (Apr 23, 2009)

You'd get even more advantage if you tied a bowline to your saddle took the other end and tied it to your truck and had someone drive away from the tree.

Probably not as safe but you'd get off the ground before lunch time which is about how long this setup would take.


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## LTREES (Apr 23, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> You'd get even more advantage if you tied a bowline to your saddle took the other end and tied it to your truck and had someone drive away from the tree.
> 
> Probably not as safe but you'd get off the ground before lunch time which is about how long this setup would take.



I'm not that old yet, just trying to get to the top w/out a struggle.

LT...


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## Tree Pig (Apr 23, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> You'd get even more advantage if you tied a bowline to your saddle took the other end and tied it to your truck and had someone drive away from the tree.
> 
> Probably not as safe but you'd get off the ground before lunch time which is about how long this setup would take.




Would you trust your groundie to stop on time.


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## treemandan (Apr 23, 2009)

LTREES said:


> Your right Dan It doesn't work, tried it tonight. There has got to be a way to set up a pulley system.
> 
> LT...



Basically you have to make a huge fiddle block. You have to set the block in the top of the tree first. You can set it with a shot bag. Gonna need 3 times the rope for a straight shot up there with no resetting the one pulley. 

I will set it up and take pics of something that will work. You will use the same ammount of energy though BUT WAIT you can just get somebody else to pull you up:rockn:


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## Fireaxman (Apr 23, 2009)

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59184&d=1193713279

This rig was expensive, but it gave a lot of mechanical advantage and had the advantage of rapid descent without changing ascenders to descenders.

But, adding mechanical advantage costs repetitive motion. You have to be willing to trade strength for stamina. I fooled with this for a while but decided it took too many pulls to get to the top. Texas style SRT is the easyest ascent I have found.


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## treemandan (Apr 23, 2009)

Fireaxman said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59184&d=1193713279
> 
> Adding mechanical advantage costs repetitive motion. You have to be willing to trade strength for stamina. I fooled with this for a while but decided it took too many pulls to get to the top.



Well, it depends on who is pulling don't it? Oh boy, won't the groundies be thrilled. I will set this idea up, should work fine.


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## Slvrmple72 (Apr 25, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I think if the pulley you are talking about is put there it will work until the pulley system closes ( runs out of rigged rope). I don't know what you would do then.



Stop. I am here for anymore technical support.-Kevin


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## treemandan (Apr 25, 2009)

Fireaxman said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59184&d=1193713279
> 
> This rig was expensive, but it gave a lot of mechanical advantage and had the advantage of rapid descent without changing ascenders to descenders.
> 
> But, adding mechanical advantage costs repetitive motion. You have to be willing to trade strength for stamina. I fooled with this for a while but decided it took too many pulls to get to the top. Texas style SRT is the easyest ascent I have found.



Well the hardware looks good but what is that you have threaded into it? That is one ratty rope HOLY CHIT.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 25, 2009)

i think the title should be "More Mechanical Advantage Climbing Line"; for we should see that the DdRT has a 2:1 potential as is(we have to shift half our weight x distance to the control side, to lift the load side etc). Then we must see this to be able to discern form visible thru all else in the same closed system efficiency examples in pulley (or 1st class lever) systems.

FireAxMan offers a solution of more ergonomic in trade of mechanical efficiency; as long as the CG (lower chest as center of gravity) is kept in line with device(rope).

We can also have climber pulled up/ or aided with rigging line as they work their lifeline separately thru self tended hitch as the are prussicking/camming up. The rig line can be worked to take 50%-70% load off climber, the life line provide final lift, and safety; this way rig line moving at full speed (of input); doesn't outrun climbing moving at half speed(of it's input; the 2:1 power increase, having half speed as reciprocal).


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## ropensaddle (Aug 4, 2016)

LTREES said:


> Your right Dan It doesn't work, tried it tonight. There has got to be a way to set up a pulley system.
> 
> LT...


There is! Set two doubles like a block and tackle with prusic capture, then set a single rope with bigshot to intended height tie it to top pulley and pull it up to height and base tie the other end. Now clip in to bottom pulley and you have a 4 to one with progress capture. You will pull lots of line out but it will be easy to pull!


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 6, 2016)

lol, I like revisiting some old post's.
Jeff
1 comma


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## beastmaster (Aug 7, 2016)

Only problem i see is you'll only be moving up a few inches for every foot you pull. That might wear you out more in the long run. I know using RADs with out the foot strap give a big mechanical advantage but takes forever.


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## david1332 (Aug 7, 2016)

Just get a good cmi foot ascender. Using a mech advantage would make DDRT 4:1 and it would be a very slow crawl up the rope.

You can buy a saka knee ascender as well if you want


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