# What lathe?



## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

I really need a lathe to do the mods I want to do. I only need a *small bench top model*. I'm very limited in bench space, so size is important. All I need for it to do is cut cylinder bases and piston crowns. I'm sold on mandrel cutters for squish band mods. I love quality tools, but what would be the best lathe for the least money that will do what I need?


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## Zombiechopper (Aug 10, 2012)

least money is not the way to go. I have a friend that got a chinese lathe and it has been a nightmare. The gear box grenaded. Nothing was true. It had slop every which way, which he knew how how to correct and tune. It took him a long while to get it set up to be accurate, and then the gear box disintegrated. I don't know what brand this thing was but he always called it his 'chinese' lathe

Buy a used high quality American made machine and have it refurbed.


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## sunfish (Aug 10, 2012)

Old American Made is the best way to go and not that hard to find one. I have a South Bend that's older than me and works great.

On the cheap and new, I'd get a Grizzly. Or Better but more money a Jet...

* Stay away from Harbor Freight!!!*


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

I do not want to buy an old lathe that needs refurbed. If buying used, I wouldn't know a worn out machine from a good one. I was thinking something along the lines of a Grizzly. Of course, if someone I knew had a good older US made unit, that would be different. It MUST be small though.


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## Streblerm (Aug 10, 2012)

If you are looking at a Grizzly you may as well look at the HF models. I really dont think there is much of a difference. Check out some of the reviews of the HF lathes.

I would like to have one too and I have the same concerns about buying used. You should probably go fish for some information on a machinist website.


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## Nitroman (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I really need a lathe to do the mods I want to do. I only need a *small bench top model*. I'm very limited in bench space, so size is important. All I need for it to do is cut cylinder bases and piston crowns. I'm sold on mandrel cutters for squish band mods. I love quality tools, but what would be the best lathe for the least money that will do what I need?



Machine Tool Rebuilding, Retrofitting, Repair, Service & Manuals

Brad, I spoke to the owner several times a few years ago when trying to acquire machine tools for a rocketry program I and another professor were trying to set up. The fellow will have several machines not listed on his list on the webpage. Call him and tell him your needs, he can set up up or point you in the right direction. You don't have to spend huge dollars, but on the other hand you don't want a worn out machine.

A good previously owned South Bend 9" can be had from eBay, close enough you'd be able to drive to look at it, but you need to drag someone with you to check it out, or hire a machinist from a local shop to look it over. Sometimes you can get one that is in remarkable condition. I bought a 9" from a machine tool reseller in Cincinnati that was completely original, with almost all the accessories, and had been hardly used at all, but I was lucky. Were I living in the states, I'd not worry about buying used since I could drive to check them out like I said, but it is up to you. If going new, as previously stated, Grizzly. In their search bar type in "South Bend Lathe", they are selling the brand again and they are a step above the current Chinese lathes.

Here http://www.grizzly.com/search/search.aspx?q=south bend lathes&cachebuster=5138330987826150

Do not be surprised by the prices, you get what you pay for. Practicalmachinist.com go to the South Bend section and ask for your needs. Sometimes people will sell a lathe they've just finished restoring for under $2k and it will be as-new condition. Ask around, they are very helpfull and won't laugh at you.

Don't be in a hurry, I have seen lathes sell for ridiculously low prices that are in good condition and come with just about every accessory and tool available for the machine. Take your time and ask your questions. Bite the bullet once and you'll own the machine for years and be tickled with it, or buy a lemon and curse it (and yourself), every time you try to use it.


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## Mastermind (Aug 10, 2012)

Cut me off at the knees if you must but i bought a Harbor Freight 7X12 model for a "getting started" lathe. I took it completely apart and cleaned every piece. It is a must on these things........think about it.....they are assembled by 12 year old kids working for three cent a day. 

The gear box was full of trash and needed greased. The ways and gibs needed truing and adjusted. Plus the three jaw 3" chuck is a joke. 

I installed a 5" independently adjustable chuck, and did some mods to the cross slide to allow the tool post to back up further from the centerline. Also the slides under the carriage cracked and I had to make some new ones out of a more malleable material.

I have an Atlas from the 1930s that I'm planning to rebuild but I'm in no real hurry as this little lathe does a great job.


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## imagineero (Aug 10, 2012)

Small, cheap and quality are two words that rarely go together when you're talking about lathes, mills, or drill presses. 

I'd suggest starting with a google search on 'tramming' and 'lathe' to get you going. Tramming is the practice of zeroing in any piece of machining equipment. On good gear, you do it rarely, and mostly on critical jobs. When you search, you'll find that guys who buy cheap gear just can't tram it effectively. There's too much slop and play in every part of the machine - every mating surface, every gear, every moving part. So they can never machine any part to any meaningful tolerance. You can dump a whole lot of dollars on a cheap machine trying to get any kind of accuracy out of it, and still be throwing your money away. The machine is worth nothing from the time you buy it, and mods will not add to the value of the junk you bought.

Buy old, buy large, buy quality. Good quality machines aren't cheap, but they are good value. Especially if everyone reading your post knows you are going to be using that machine to work on their saw. Quality machinery doesn't need refurbing. It's well made from scratch, has very little movement between all the critical parts, and close to zero lash on gears plus often comes with a bunch of useful extras like extra tooling. On top of that, you'll lose no money when selling it.

Shaun


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## firmwood (Aug 10, 2012)

You start getting within half a thousandth of accuracy , its going to get expensive if you need anything of size.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Bottom line, I don't need the quality you guys are recommending. I don't have that much to spend on one, nor the space to put it, thus my requirements in the first post. I love quality, but in this case am not willing to pay for it. I'm looking to spend <$1,000 on this purchase. So, what can I get for $500-$1,000?


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## Mastermind (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Bottom line, I don't need the quality you guys are recommending. I don't have that much to spend on one, nor the space to put it, thus my requirements in the first post. I love quality, but in this case am not willing to pay for it. I'm looking to spend <$1,000 on this purchase. So, what can I get for $500-$1,000?



If you do decide to get a Chinese lathe. Just be prepared to do a days worth of work on it before it's usable.

I would love to have a nice South Bend. The Atlas has flat ways and is more prone to carriage misalignment.


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## Nitroman (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Bottom line, I don't need the quality you guys are recommending. I don't have that much to spend on one, nor the space to put it, thus my requirements in the first post. I love quality, but in this case am not willing to pay for it. I'm looking to spend <$1,000 on this purchase. So, what can I get for $500-$1,000?



South Bend off eBay can be had for these prices. It will fit on a bench. It will be heavier than it looks. Take your time though and check them out. You can get one for $500-$700 that will work for you. You may even end up with a really nice one.


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## oldmar (Aug 10, 2012)

Brad, I've got and old Craftsman/Atlas from 1939, the version with the roller bearing headstock, and it has about .0015 runout on the spindle. I got it with a lot of tooling for under 300 about ten years back, which was a great deal, but they're affordable and plenty accurate, especially if you're just doing alu and mag. If you see one locally, don't pass it over just because it's old and says Craftsman.


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## Zombiechopper (Aug 10, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Cut me off at the knees if you must but i bought a Harbor Freight 7X12 model for a "getting started" lathe. I took it completely apart and cleaned every piece. It is a must on these things........think about it.....they are assembled by 12 year old kids working for three cent a day.
> 
> *The gear box was full of trash and needed greased*. *The ways and gibs needed truing and adjusted*. *Plus the three jaw 3" chuck is a joke*.
> 
> ...



exactly what I was saying. If you buy a new cheap lathe it needs to rebuilt and gone through just like a used one. Machine tools are never ready to go out of the box. They require lots of set up time and truing/adjusting to be accurate. You will have to do that with a used quality machine or new low quality machine so my money would go with quality if it were me.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

The problem with buying used is that I have no idea what I'm looking for. What about a 9" Southbend model A?


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## Nitroman (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The problem with buying used is that I have no idea what I'm looking for. What about a 9" Southbend model A?



Good popular machines with accessories, tools and repair parts readily available.


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## nmurph (Aug 10, 2012)

This one-

8" x 12" Benchtop Lathe

It gets very good reviews. It was on my shopping list until I stumbled across the 7x HF lathe for cheap. You can find HF 20% off coupons in the back of lots of magazines. Be prepared to spend several hundred more to get the tooling and gauges you need. 
Littlemachineshop.com is a good place to look for accessories and information.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Hardinge DV-59?

What's the minimum size I would need?


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Aug 10, 2012)

I'd be buying FATGUY lots of cold ones and have a long talk with him, JMO. I'm sure he knows some hook ups out there. 

When I find stuff like this used up here I just run it by Al Smith and he tells me the good and the bad, just like Nik could for you.


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## barneyrb (Aug 10, 2012)

I bought a used Smithy with the mill on top and it's all I need


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## Zombiechopper (Aug 10, 2012)

can't Nik just make you a lathe during his lunch break on his super CNC gizmo robot? That's the way to go in my opinion.


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## Trx250r180 (Aug 10, 2012)

might try this place Metal Lathes | Metal Fabrication | Northern Tool + Equipment 


i dont know lot about them but this ones small and affordable FREE SHIPPING  SHOP FOX Mini Lathe  6in. x 10., Model# M1015 | Lathes| Northern Tool + Equipment


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Nik is "downing" in work. Besides that, it would be so nice to just step out into the garage and get 'r done, lol.


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## sunfish (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The problem with buying used is that I have no idea what I'm looking for. What about a 9" Southbend model A?



That's what I have and it's a very good machine and not very large. I bought mine site unseen and it has worked flawlessly for 14 years.

Again, I would stay away from Harbor Freight. I have been fabricating and working with metal all my life and the HF stuff is crap! Grizzly is much, much better! They have parts and people on the phone that speak English! There are different grades of Chinese crap, they may look alike, but the quality can vary a lot...


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Pay a GOOD machine rebuilder to look at anything Brad. $50 an hour and worth it. 
If you get a SB, there is a Govt Document about attaching it to a homemade base to add rigidity. Done during WW II. 

A DV-59 I'd a Hardinge second op lathe. No power feed but THE best sit down, Q&D, get the job done quick, more accurate than you are lathe God ever had built. 

A DV-59 can often be had for a low price as CNCs do the second op these days. A Hardinge Speed Lathe would also work I think. 

I'll go look. 

If you buy a HF, do as MM said and then when you get a lathe, use it to polish on. Keeping grit off the ways of your "new" lathe.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Pay a GOOD machine rebuilder to look at anything Brad. $50 an hour and worth it.
> If you get a SB, there is a Govt Document about attaching it to a homemade base to add rigidity. Done during WW II.
> 
> A DV-59 I'd a Hardinge second op lathe. No power feed but THE best sit down, Q&D, get the job done quick, more accurate than you are lathe God ever had built.
> ...



How 'bout I hire you to find, purchase, deliver, and setup a DV-59 or similar You've been trying to talk me into this forever


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

And you can get parts for a SB most of the time. 

And milling attachments are available.


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## Justsaws (Aug 10, 2012)

Call the HF in Lima and see what they have in stock and take a look at it. Then start calling some of the 100s of places in Ohio that sell used metal working tools and take a look at what they have to offer. Do not expect good prices over the phone and in my opinion most of the used places are about as trustworthy as a meth-addicted used car salesman when it comes to individual retail sales.

There are hundreds of "little' metal lathes for sale however they are almost always way more expensive than the HF units and in my opinion not worth the extra money or time unless you find a mint used one with all the tooling.

Any used lathe you get you will be spending at least a day working over and you better hope it does not need any parts.

Any HF lathe you get you will spend a day working over, buy the protection plan.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> How 'bout I hire you to find, purchase, deliver, and setup a DV-59 or similar You've been trying to talk me into this forever



Have to wait till Monday. 


I gues I could call in our on call rebuilder if I broke a machine this weekend. 

Okay. 

And yes I will. Get you a DV-59 that is.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

If you get 3 phase, go VFD. A buzz box can work but you will lose power. 

Rotary Phase Converter (RPC) will work but uses power and has to be sized.


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## Nitroman (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Have to wait till Monday.
> 
> 
> I gues I could call in our on call rebuilder if I broke a machine this weekend.
> ...



For under $1000.00!!!!? You are kidding yes?


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> For under $1000.00!!!!? You are kidding yes?



I've seen them go for $300. Saw a $500 last year. 

Just gotta keep looking. 






ALL the time. And have a trailer, engine hoist, coffee and cash ready.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 10, 2012)

Don't discount european machines. I'd put my voest da-210 against a monarch any day.

Buying one as a unitasker is a mistake too. Lathes are extremely handy in life. I use mine more than my mill.


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## rattler362 (Aug 10, 2012)

I have been looking oneline at HF at the Shop fox.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> I've seen them go for $300. Saw a $500 last year.
> 
> Just gotta keep looking.
> 
> ...



He's in alaska! There's no drill presses under a grand up there. Anything worth having will cost you your first born.

It's nothing like ohio and east, where used machines are scrap rate + removal.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> For under $1000.00!!!!? You are kidding yes?



SB is usually THE hot ticket. 

However. I just paid $250 for a Hardinge mill. UM/TM. Yes I have to do work to make it pretty but it is all there. Add a $400 dollar Bridgeport made vertical head made for the Hardinge and I'm set. 

But I looked for a while. 

And Brad. Get the Rockwell not the Clausing mill. The Rockwell uses R8 collets..

You know you are going to get carried away........


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

I found a LN looking DV-59 for $1500 asking price. What do they usually go for?


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

Brad, you live in Ohio bro. . . The freaking hub of industry for machine shops since before WWII.

There are so many lathes and metalworking machines in Cincinnati alone, it numbers in the hundreds of thousands!

If shipping wasn't a killer for me, I would have had a lathe from Ohio years ago. Look online, look on CL, bring a guy like Al Smith or Nik, or someone with experience with you when you go looking.

You can find real nice older machines for pennies on the dollar, that have been well cared for, and might need gibs if anything.

As far as my own research, these have good reviews on machinist boards. The older ones pop-up from time to time, but it's my understanding guys hang on to them.

Might be a little out of your current budget, but look online and see if a used one pops up, or run an add yourself on CL.

ShopMaster Eldorado BridgeMill Lathe & Mill - Edmonton Power Tools For Sale - Kijiji Edmonton Canada.

Cnc Milling Machine, Metal Lathe Mill Drill, 3 In 1 Machine


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> Don't discount european machines. I'd put my voest da-210 against a monarch any day.
> 
> Buying one as a unitasker is a mistake too. Lathes are extremely handy in life. I use mine more than my mill.





Again. Parts can be a problem.

And budget.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> You know you are going to get carried away........



That's what in scared of, and one of the reasons I'd be ok with something like a Grizzly. If I start researching and learning all this machine stuff, I won't know where to stop!


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## Jim Timber (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> If you get 3 phase, go VFD. A buzz box can work but you will lose power.
> 
> Rotary Phase Converter (RPC) will work but uses power and has to be sized.



VFD needs to be sized too, if not rated for single phase input. Sizing is easy though - any vfd can be run off single phase, and just needs to be 50% larger than the motor used. So a 5hp motor needs a 7.5hp 3ph rated vfd.

Single phase motors lack much needed torque and smoothness for metal finishing. If you're ok with 64+ RA surfaces, that's fine, but you'll never get a 24 or better without manually sanding it post cut.


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## nmurph (Aug 10, 2012)

Brad, just get this guy to do your work. I be he would work for some Dr. Scholls foot powder.

Moroccan Bow Lathe - YouTube


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> That's what in scared of, and one of the reasons I'd be ok with something like a Grizzly. If I start researching and learning all this machine stuff, I won't know where to stop!



You're getting some real good advice here, enough I think to keep you grounded. Bring Nik with you or any other seasoned machinist when you go looking, that's probably the most important thing!

When I look at lathes or mills, I run it by Rod (the guy making Weber Custom's handles) -- he's like 5th generation machinist, and did aircraft and prototyping in Kansas for a long time.

A machine might look good to you, but could have worn out ways, or have a bad reputation on the gear box, or obsolete gears (having gears made is doable, but pricey).

The best finds are usually in an old guys basement -- that he's had for 40 years, but kept in great condition, and has low hours. Those deals are out there, and more common than not.

You don't need a lot of tooling either, that can be purchased as you go, or made by you.

I missed a great deal on a South Bend a couple years ago. Retired machinist from California living here, moving back to California to get better care for his wife's cancer. He sold the lathe and probably 8k in tooling and accessories for $1,200.00 

And that's in Montana, where machine tools are harder to find than in Ohio!


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## thomas1 (Aug 10, 2012)

What's your actual space limitation?


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> You're getting some real good advice here, enough I think to keep you grounded.



I never dreamed that I'd get this kind of response about a lathe! Thanks everyone.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> What's your actual space limitation?



A FULL garage, lol. Basically, I just don't want a machine Amy bigger than I need. I already have a nice truck setting outside because I have too many chainsaws!


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## Nitroman (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> I've seen them go for $300. Saw a $500 last year.
> Just gotta keep looking.
> ALL the time. And have a trailer, engine hoist, coffee and cash ready.



I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. Why can't I find these things?




Stihl 041S said:


> SB is usually THE hot ticket.
> However. I just paid $250 for a Hardinge mill. UM/TM. Yes I have to do work to make it pretty but it is all there. Add a $400 dollar Bridgeport made vertical head made for the Hardinge and I'm set.
> But I looked for a while.
> And Brad. Get the Rockwell not the Clausing mill. The Rockwell uses R8 collets..
> You know you are going to get carried away........



Yeah...I feel sick now.

Here is what I have:





Brad, this is what I mean by taking your time and not being in a hurry. This came from the machine reseller in Cincinnati. Advertised as a SB 9". It is...somewhat. It is a Model O (Model oh, not zero), that came just before the Models A, B, and C. According to the serial number was made on Black Thursday 1928. This lathe is all original, came with all those tools you see in the background, is chain driven motor to drive, leather to spindle. All original and in near mint condition. But it will not accept Model A, B, or C accessories. The bed width is the same as the Heavy 10 SB, but the spindle height is Model A-C. It is frustrating too as in the past four years I have only seen one bed turret for this machine on eBay and I missed the auction!!!!
I paid $800 for everything in the photo (except the cabinet), plus a big box of already ground tooling. It came on a pallet bolted to the tabletop. I paid $1275.00 for shipping. Yes, you read that correctly. That's what it cost to get 485 pounds from there to here. Truck to Seattle, barge to Anchorage, truck to the airport, plane to Bethel. But it is worth it. Up and running this machine can do just about anything within the 24" centers. Has 0.002" backlash on the compound but I'm going to work on that.
I built a 4x4 frame, got it leveled up yesterday, and am waiting for some material to arrive from down south to begin playing with it.

Take your time.

I paid $1200.00 for an Atlas horizontal mill in near new condition. Complete with original vise and cast iron thing that bolts to the knee and overhead bar. Fantastic little machine within its limitations.
Two years ago I found a Rusnok milling head to go with this mill. Rebuilt it with new bearings, motor and complete set of collets. Have a bunch of endmills for it too. Another fantastic addition to my 8'x12' porch machine shop. 
Have an Atlas drillpress too.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I found a LN looking DV-59 for $1500 asking price. What do they usually go for?



From $300-$11,000


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> VFD needs to be sized too, if not rated for single phase input. Sizing is easy though - any vfd can be run off single phase, and just needs to be 50% larger than the motor used. So a 5hp motor needs a 7.5hp 3ph rated vfd.
> 
> Single phase motors lack much needed torque and smoothness for metal finishing. If you're ok with 64+ RA surfaces, that's fine, but you'll never get a 24 or better without manually sanding it post cut.




I meant that a big RPC can run a small machine. But will use a lot of juice. 

And don't tell Brad about surface finish. The he will worry about gear vs belt. 

Brad needs a Moore drum lathe.......


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> A FULL garage, lol. Basically, I just don't want a machine Amy bigger than I need. I already have a nice truck setting outside because I have too many chainsaws!



Dang it Brad! . . Amy's just big boned! :msp_sneaky:


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> And don't tell Brad about surface finish. The he will worry about gear vs belt.



You know me too well! The more I learn, the more I'll worry about getting the right machine, the better machine I'll think I need! Don't you just love OCD, lol


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## nmurph (Aug 10, 2012)

Brad, Google 8X lathe review. I think you will find the HF lathe (also sold under other names) wll suit you just fine. They are a definite step up from the 7x lathes.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Oh yeah ....


SEE IT UNDER POWER OR PASS!!!!!!!













Except sometimes.....


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## Jim Timber (Aug 10, 2012)

I don't advise anyone to use RPC's - it's like saying throw out nat gas and go back to coal.

A VFD pays for itself. Mine actually pay me to use them. The more I run them, the longer our new digital electric meter gets tickled, and the cheaper our bill gets. I think the line feedback messes with how the meter reads current, and makes it think we're feeding back more than we're drawing. I'm not about to inform the powco about that though. 

RPC's have horrible power factors, even when matched to the load - you'll get soaked on your usage.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

$1,500 asking price, with "lots of extra tools".


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

Another quick fact about VFD's. . . At low RPM the AC motors will get hot -- just the nature of the beast.

Another option for variable speed motors for your small lathe is DC.

You can scavenge for a treadmill nobody wants anymore, and take off the speed control and transformer.

A 2hp DC treadmill motor will make way more torque thru the RPM ranges than AC would ever hope to make! They'll also build less heat, and are waaaay cheaper to have rebuilt!

Even if you had to offer them $150-$300 for the treadmill, small VFD's start at around $500.

:msp_smile:


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> $1,500 asking price, with "lots of extra tools".



Too much $$$ for what you're getting IMO.


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## sawjo (Aug 10, 2012)

Some interesting reading here: mini-lathe.com home page


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## Jim Timber (Aug 10, 2012)

Power feed or go home. 2nd op lathes aren't good first op lathes. Why buy a machine that's handicapped?


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## sunfish (Aug 10, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Too much $$$ for what you're getting IMO.



Yes, but it depends on how much *"lots of extra tools"*.

It is pretty!


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## R DeLawter (Aug 10, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> He's in alaska! There's no drill presses under a grand up there. Anything worth having will cost you your first born.
> 
> It's nothing like ohio and east, where used machines are scrap rate + removal.




After things fell apart in 2007 machine tools really got cheap for a couple years but they are moving back up.

I have a South Bend Heavy 10 with 24" bed that serves me well. ( A nice size for a home shop)

Also have a 1954 Springfield 16 x 60" with hardened ways but I need to change out the 20hp motor to 5-7hp with a phase converter.

PICTURES: I have some but takes me a day to remember how to post them.


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## sunfish (Aug 10, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> Power feed or go home. 2nd op lathes aren't good first op lathes. Why buy a machine that's handicapped?



Power feed isn't needed for what these chainsaw nuts are doin, or really for the small stuff I do with my South Bend...


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## Jim Timber (Aug 10, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Another quick fact about VFD's. . . At low RPM the AC motors will get hot -- just the nature of the beast.
> 
> Another option for variable speed motors for your small lathe is DC.
> 
> ...



VFD's aren't that expensive.

You also don't use them as a primary speed control unless the application is designed for it (cnc's use them for spindle speed sometimes). You set up the VFD to run 60hz, and use the drive controls for forward/reverse/start/stop. It's not as robust as true 3ph (softer power, due to not having a powco generator pushing it), but it acts like you're just plugged in.


On rare occasions, you can over/under speed the motor using the VFD, but I prefer to let my motor work at max efficiency, and use the gear box or reeves drive to control the speed.


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## R DeLawter (Aug 10, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> I don't advise anyone to use RPC's - it's like saying throw out nat gas and go back to coal.
> 
> A VFD pays for itself. Mine actually pay me to use them. The more I run them, the longer our new digital electric meter gets tickled, and the cheaper our bill gets. I think the line feedback messes with how the meter reads current, and makes it think we're feeding back more than we're drawing. I'm not about to inform the powco about that though.
> 
> RPC's have horrible power factors, even when matched to the load - you'll get soaked on your usage.




I have a (Teco FM 50 ) VFD on a Clausing drill press and another one for my Bridgeport mill but a rotary phase converter is cheap to build.


----------



## Jim Timber (Aug 10, 2012)

sunfish said:


> Power feed isn't needed for what these chainsaw nuts are doin, or really for the small stuff I do with my South Bend...



I guess it's a perspective thing. If I'm spending a grand, I want all the usual functions on a tool room lathe. Threading is a must have in my world.

Hardinge 2nd op lathes are nice for what they are, but I personally wouldn't get one if I didn't have another lathe.


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## R DeLawter (Aug 10, 2012)

sunfish said:


> Power feed isn't needed for what these chainsaw nuts are doin, or really for the small stuff I do with my South Bend...





Once you get a lathe you find all sorts of things to make or turn down.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 10, 2012)

R DeLawter said:


> I have a (Teco FM 50 ) VFD on a Clausing drill press and another one for my Bridgeport mill but a rotary phase converter is cheap to build.



Cheap to build, and expensive to run. That's all I'm saying.

Whatever you do, don't get a "static" phase converter!


----------



## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> VFD's aren't that expensive.
> 
> You also don't use them as a primary speed control unless the application is designed for it (cnc's use them for spindle speed sometimes). You set up the VFD to run 60hz, and use the drive controls for forward/reverse/start/stop. It's not as robust as true 3ph (softer power, due to not having a powco generator pushing it), but it acts like you're just plugged in.
> 
> ...



Machine dependent fur sure! Some machines won't go slow enough for needed surface speeds, so you have to fudge with the VFD.

I agree, you want the motor working at max efficiency, but it's not always doable. Hence you fudge, build heat in the motor and the torque sucks!

Look at old wire drive units on older wire feed machines -- they're DC, and offer infinite speed control.


----------



## R DeLawter (Aug 10, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> Cheap to build, and expensive to run. That's all I'm saying.
> 
> Whatever you do, don't get a "static" phase converter!



Yes static converters are a different story.


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## procarbine2k1 (Aug 10, 2012)

The second after you buy a good machine, enroll in an adult ed class- or pay a machinist (as well as a teacher) to give you a good foundation. I know this sounds over kill, especially for what your needs are (and yes there are many self-taught fellas out there) but I think you would be light years ahead. It wouldnt matter how tight or how well the machine was built if you werent capable of using it. Dont mean this to come off wrong.

I just sold an Atlas 101 that ran off of 110v, power feed with all the gearing. Not a big machine, but well built. Probably would have been perfect for what you wanted, just keep your eyes peeled. $500 is all that it sold for and it was a beauty. It had a 4 jaw non-indicating chuck, which I really liked.

The guys that keep pointing you toward the older machines are 110% right. If you find a decent deal on an older machine, and find out it isnt your cup of tea- there wouldnt be anything against you selling it. That 101 I had, I sold for a song and was still twice what I paid for it.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> Power feed or go home. 2nd op lathes aren't good first op lathes. Why buy a machine that's handicapped?



Why buy what you don't need?

What is he going to use power feed for on P&C?

3120 to trim apple trees. 

Or a Swiss army knife to clean fish.


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## R DeLawter (Aug 10, 2012)

Older American built cast iron & steel has a lot going for it.

You can take an older machine with some play in it and once you learn it's characteristics you can do some very good work.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> I just sold an Atlas 101 that ran off of 110v, power feed with all the gearing. Not a big machine, but well built. Probably would have been perfect for what you wanted, just keep your eyes peeled. $500 is all that it sold for and it was a beauty. It had a 4 jaw non-indicating chuck, which I really like.



You trying to make me sick, lol.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 10, 2012)

You have power windows in your car right? If it's even an option anymore, would you pay the same for manual crank?

Buying a lathe "just for p&c" work is idiotic (unless you have other machines). Once you have one, it opens the door for so much other work. Why cripple yourself at the starting line?


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## R DeLawter (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Why buy what you don't need?ings
> 
> What is he going to use power feed for on P&C?
> 
> ...



With Brad's skills and always learning new things, I think once he gets a lathe he will find all sorts of things to use it for.


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## Justsaws (Aug 10, 2012)

Since the space and budget is what is being asked about how about some actual numbers.

How much does it cost to build a phase converter and how big are they?

How much does it cost to recondition a small lathe, since they typically pull $500.00 in poor condition, damaged parts that will need replacing. Most of the small older units on CL seem to start at around $500.00 for the unit itself and any extra tooling is more $$$$. Most are in what I would call rough shape and have not seen any that were ready to use lately in Ohio for ;less than $1500.00. Bearings are soooooo cheap for lathes, right.

If the Grizzly cost more than the HF then get the HF. You will want to take the Grizzly apart as well. Just my experience with every Grizzly tool I have ever seen.

Tell him about the cost and ease of sourcing the tooling needed to deck a 390 cylinder and cut the cumbustion chamber and not the bargins that you only found once but what it costs when you need it.

Fresh paint on an old lathe is only as good as the sellers reputation since it can hide some bad issues. 

While Brad is located in Ohio between Lima and Cinn next to Dayton he should be able to find 100s of these small old lathes relitively locally, kind of makes you wonder why so many experienced hobbiest in Ohio buy HF units and why the resellers have to ship so many units out of state to stay in business.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Now I'm really going to show my ignorance. I know next to nothing about electronics. Do I have to buy a 110 V or 220V unit? Most all of the units are 440V.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Ebay DV-59s look to be $1500-$2500. Very little in CL either.


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Now I'm really going to show my ignorance. I know next to nothing about electronics. Do I have to buy a 110 V or 220V unit? Most all of the units are 440V.



If you're going to replace the motor (or VFD it), what's on the machine doesn't really matter.

For the sake of "plug & play", a 120v unit will be the easiest for you.

For a little perspective, Ol Stumpy has a HF lathe too, and he's cut a lot of saw parts with it already. :msp_wink:


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> For the sake of "plug & play", a 120v unit will be the easiest for you.



Believe it or not, I can run a 220V line So, this phase converter would allow me to run a 440V motor on 220V?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

BTW, who needs Practical Machinist? Looks like we've for it all covered right here on good old AS


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Believe it or not, I can run a 220V line So, this phase converter would allow me to run a 440V motor on 220V?



Yes, the 440v motor would be a three-phase motor. . . It will be, by far, the most common when buying industrial equipment. It's also the cheapest to buy because most people don't have access to 3-phase.

You should read up a little on what 3-phase means -- it's not complicated. My old man used to work for a gun smith that would start his big lathes with a pull rope and run them on 240v.


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## procarbine2k1 (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Now I'm really going to show my ignorance. I know next to nothing about electronics. Do I have to buy a 110 V or 220V unit? Most all of the units are 440V.



Honestly, I would snag a 220 or 110. It isnt a big deal on most equipment to interchange motors (and can be relatively cheap). Only problem with 110 and 220, they are much more marketable to the average joe, and typically you would pay for them. I think metals mentioned it, there are
3 phase units out there, that have sold for scrap weight because of their size/ power. Just keep pounding away at "metal lathe" on CL. I have seen a couple others at the same time I sold mine for a decent deal. I have my eye on an older Clausing right now that I have been meaning to buy. I think youll find something in the near future, I think some of these guys listing some of this stuff that was their dads or whatever that they dont know how to use, are just crap shootin' on price. Im sure youll find a deal.


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## Nitroman (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Now I'm really going to show my ignorance. I know next to nothing about electronics. Do I have to buy a 110 V or 220V unit? Most all of the units are 440V.



Do you have a dryer in the house? Stove? Those are 220v. Motors can be rewired for 220v for cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUTH-BEND-...094?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564ba2fc5e

Heavy 10. Euclid Ohio. What are you waiting for? Right now on eGay I see a bed turret, taper attachments, collet attachments, milling attachments, all for the Heavy 10. Note: Don't get a 10K, it is a slightly different model SB and goodies are almost as hard to find as are they for my Model O.

For a tad more there are a couple in Toledo complete with tooling that'd add $1k to above. Man....


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Do you have a dryer in the house? Stove? Those are 220v. Motors can be rewired for 220v for cheap.



I'll be running a new dedicated 220V line for it. I did so for my compressor.


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## srcarr52 (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> $1,500 asking price, with "lots of extra tools".



That is a speed lathe, you don't want it. Notice there is no feed shaft or screw so you'll be stuck feeding by hand all the time. The gear feeds are nice to produce a consistent surface.

The Grizzly lathes are surprisingly good for an import. There are on par with Jet and Enco branded machines and will work fine once you get the cosmoline off them. A friend has a 12x36 and it holds great tolerances and he hasn't had any issues. The chucks (3 jaw and independent 4) that came with the machine are adequate.

I picked up an older Jet 13x40 (green colored) a few years ago for $1500 with a enough tooling to get started. I had to switch the 3 phase 220 motor for a single phase 220. I used a dual voltage motor since it only needed 3 contactors to be reversing thus I was able to rewire the existing contactors in the machine. The motor came used from the local electric motor shop and cost less than a VFD. 

This may be a little far to drive but it's a decent deal. It already has a quick change toolpost which IMO is a necessity but you'd still have to buy a 4 jaw chuck (probably a D1-3 mount so $100-$250 depending on what quality you wanted). Enco 9x20 Metal Lathe with Stand

I would personally beat this guy down to $1200 and call it a day. It may not be a benchtop model but it won't take up much space. ~~12X36 GRIZZLY LATHE AND STAND F/S F/T~~ 
It's looks like it comes with another probably better than original 4-jaw, some extra tool holders for the quick change and probably some carbide tooling. I would guess somewhere between $500-1000 of extras and it will do anything you'll ever what to do for a chainsaw (even turn a 3120 cylinder).


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Do you have a dryer in the house? Stove? Those are 220v. Motors can be rewired for 220v for cheap.
> 
> SOUTH BEND CL187R LATHE 10" X 39" | eBay
> 
> ...



Brad, these guys are 4 hours north of ya -- and might have more to offer than that one auction? Not that that lathe is bad. . . Might be worth contacting them to see, and have a road trip "man day" with Nik looking over a lathe. 

As far as that Grizzly goes, the guy has it up for barter (maybe he needs a chainsaw *wink wink*), and you'd have some cash surplus for tooling, etc.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Sorry but the pic Brad posted is not a speed lathe. 

Hardinge Speed Lathe has a shorter bed. 4500RPM

It is a DV-59. 3000 or so RPM. Same head as Speed Lathe. 

The TBF (TFB?) has drive shafts for power feed, but does't cut threads.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Thanks for the comments and links!


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## Tzed250 (Aug 10, 2012)

You could use your CNC mill as a lathe: 

[video=youtube;8O_EanaXtSw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O_EanaXtSw&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]


Sorry, I couldn't help myself

You have already heard this, but if you go to buy a used machine take Nik with you. He will be able to tell the wheat from the chaff. 

Some training would help as lathes, even small ones, do not suffer fools. Lathes can cause severe injury quickly.

Good luck in your search!!


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Brad, these guys are 4 hours north of ya -- and might have more to offer than that one auction? Not that that lathe is bad. . . Might be worth contacting them to see, and have a road trip "man day" with Nik looking over a lathe.
> 
> As far as that Grizzly goes, the guy has it up for barter (maybe he needs a chainsaw *wink wink*), and you'd have some cash surplus for tooling, etc.


And just exactly what saw do you want me to part with?!


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## Nitroman (Aug 10, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Some training would help as lathes, even small ones, do not suffer fools. Lathes can cause severe injury quickly.
> 
> Good luck in your search!!



Truer words were never spoken. They'll kill you instantly too. Someone had posted on PM a series of police photos of a poor soul in a shop who had been polishing up and axle. From what was left of the mess it was determined his sleeve got caught by the axle and was wrapped up, drawing him into the chuck. It wasn't for the faint of heart. A little 9" can break your fingers/wrist/arm quick as a wink.


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## Tzed250 (Aug 10, 2012)

Had a guy right next to me sling a chuck key out of a 16X40 set on 1500. Sounded like a gunshot when it hit the wall. He got the "stare".


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

*Idiotic is an opinion*

Let's look at........facts. 

What thread are you going to cut for a chainsaw. 

That tool room lathe could you get for a grand. A new Hardinge is $50,000 plus tooling of you could get one. 

That Dv-59;

The compound is worth a grand. 

.000020 TIR from the factory. 

Set up for 5C collets. 

That chuck is worth $400 if a Hardinge. 

Rigid enough to pull a curly chip off of carbide. 

When the European Union built their first composit fighter jet ALL the rivets for the composite were made on a DV-59. 

Tapernose for 2,3,4, or 6 jaw chuck. 

A 5 C drive collet to 6 inch diameter. 


Great resale value.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Had a guy right next to me sling a chuck key out of a 16X40 set on 1500. Sounded like a gunshot when it hit the wall. He got the "stare".



My first mentor;

"Machines got NO conscience"

We had a guy with a 1" shaft run it too fat polishing it. 
Dead before he hit the floor.


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## cutfast (Aug 10, 2012)

*Hardinge DV-59 Lathe - $1100 (Berkeley)*

Hardinge DV-59 Lathe


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## duramax99 (Aug 10, 2012)

Is a 7"x12" lathe big enough for doing cylinder work?


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## cutfast (Aug 10, 2012)

*Atlas metal lathe with tooling - $1000 (NW Rockford*

Atlas metal lathe with tooling


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Had a guy right next to me sling a chuck key out of a 16X40 set on 1500. Sounded like a gunshot when it hit the wall. He got the "stare".



"The Stare"

Remember the first time you got it........


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

cutfast said:


> Hardinge DV-59 Lathe



The collets and chuck are worth that. If Hardinge.


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## Tzed250 (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> "The Stare"
> 
> Remember the first time you got it........



Yes. Something you're not likely to forget.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Yes. Something you're not likely to forget.



Just shift the Bridgeport wrong......


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## Trx250r180 (Aug 10, 2012)

why do i picture brad getting one of those 3 phase lathes,ditching the electic motor and mounting a chainsaw powerhead up to spin the chucks ........


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Here's the DV-59 I posted the pic of earlier. hardinge dv-59 tool room lathe


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Check out this one. I was turned onto it by another AS sponsor. These have been gone through and are ready to go. LATHEMASTER8x14Lathe.htm


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Here's the DV-59 I posted the pic of earlier. hardinge dv-59 tool room lathe



Nice!! But still hire a machine rebuilder to check it. 
Those compounds last a LONG time but rebuild to spec was $2500......


30 years ago. But you gotta be stupid to wreck one. 

A rebuilder can tell what needs work. A bargaining chip. 

Like a lover, steak or Motorcycle. You remember your first GREAT one. 

It gives you an insite that you will remember with lesser quality.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Check out this one. I was turned onto it by another AS sponsor. These have been gone through and are ready to go. LATHEMASTER8x14Lathe.htm



Price??


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## Stihlman441 (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The problem with buying used is that I have no idea what I'm looking for. What about a 9" Southbend model A?



Take Nick with ya hes a machinest and will know what to look for,there is nothing more frustrating than working with a worn out,in accurate machines trust me there.The headstock bearings needs to be spot on,slide ways need to be true (so dont turn tappers) check gibbs and lead screw nuts for wear and so. 
You will find endless uses for a lathe and have a lot of fun learning the skills involved in there use.:smile2:


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Price??



$969.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Brad, these guys are 4 hours north of ya -- and might have more to offer than that one auction? Not that that lathe is bad. . . Might be worth contacting them to see, and have a road trip "man day" with Nik looking over a lathe.
> 
> As far as that Grizzly goes, the guy has it up for barter (maybe he needs a chainsaw *wink wink*), and you'd have some cash surplus for tooling, etc.



The same guys are selling this one. HARDINGE DV59 LATHE 9" X 18" | eBay


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> And just exactly what saw do you want me to part with?!



Whichever one "pleases" you less than a lathe!


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## procarbine2k1 (Aug 10, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Truer words were never spoken. They'll kill you instantly too. Someone had posted on PM a series of police photos of a poor soul in a shop who had been polishing up and axle. From what was left of the mess it was determined his sleeve got caught by the axle and was wrapped up, drawing him into the chuck. It wasn't for the faint of heart. A little 9" can break your fingers/wrist/arm quick as a wink.



I watched a guy in school snag a t shirt in a newer Clausing. He was turning aluminum and that red t shirt turned into red lint. He is lucky it didnt kill him. He was the epitome of goof off, but I could tell that ordeal scared him, scared me to see it happen. If he would have been turning slower, it would have pulled him in it.


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## tomdcoker (Aug 10, 2012)

sunfish said:


> Power feed isn't needed for what these chainsaw nuts are doin, or really for the small stuff I do with my South Bend...



I agree, but one thing that has not been mentioned is a quick change gear box. I had one without it and I would have been better off useing my neighbors 9" SB that had one. Tom


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## procarbine2k1 (Aug 10, 2012)

Craftsman 6" Lathe

This is not a bad deal at all. Craftsman 109.01 or Atlas 101. In your price range, and something you can learn with. Not a production machine, but would do what you are wanting to do.


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The same guys are selling this one. HARDINGE DV59 LATHE 9" X 18" | eBay



Sounds to me like that road-trip is in order, as it appears like they might have a grab bag of stuff to drool on and pick through.

Find out when Nik can go, and git to goin'!!


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## Jim Timber (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Let's look at........facts.
> 
> What thread are you going to cut for a chainsaw.



Most everything in this thread is opinion - my opinion is buying a 2nd op machine as a primary tool is idiotic.

Do you really base every purchase you make on the narrowest of circumstances? Yes, he "thinks" he only needs it to do cylinder work, but having a "real" lathe opens up so much more opportunity to do other work. There is a world outside that doesn't involve chainsaws, you know...

My lathe was $26,000 when it was new in 1975 money. Yes, it's 37yrs old, just like me. I've had it about 4 years now, and never once have I said "gee, I wish I couldn't chuck this part up." Or, "if only I didn't have all this power." I paid 5k for it, and it came with some nice tooling. Money well spent.

Lathes are like pole barns - always get one bigger than you think you'll need.

Something else to consider: bigger used manual machinery is often cheaper than the smaller stuff. Hobby guys want small, so their demand keeps prices up. The bigger stuff isn't wanted in industry because they've gone to cnc. This leaves good machines being sent to South America, India, and china for cheap.


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> Most everything in this thread is opinion - my opinion is buying a 2nd op machine as a primary tool is idiotic.
> 
> Do you really base every purchase you make on the narrowest of circumstances? Yes, he "thinks" he only needs it to do cylinder work, but having a "real" lathe opens up so much more opportunity to do other work. There is a world outside that doesn't involve chainsaws, you know...
> 
> ...



Pretty sound advice fer most things really!

Rod hates his mill, as it's too small for what he's used to and wants. . . To me it would be a huge mill. 

I stand by my earlier advice . . . Brad should go to Manville (Man-Mart?) with Nik. Pictures are good, but picking over a lathe in person is better!

:msp_w00t:


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

I'm sorry. What facts were wrong about the DV-59?

Why not a Warner & Swasey 5A.......


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## nmurph (Aug 10, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Check out this one. I was turned onto it by another AS sponsor. These have been gone through and are ready to go. LATHEMASTER8x14Lathe.htm




That one is the very same one as this one from HF--




nmurph said:


> This one-
> 
> 8" x 12" Benchtop Lathe
> 
> ...



LatheMaster calls it a 14", HF calls it 12". It is in fact a 14" bed.


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## firmwood (Aug 10, 2012)

View attachment 248157

View attachment 248158
View attachment 248159
View attachment 248160

See how tapatalk works ... bought these dudes for $500. Both cut threads. 10ft and 4ft


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## procarbine2k1 (Aug 10, 2012)

You guys have my curiousity fueled on the Hardinge lathes. Havent heard much about them until tonight. Guess I will be on the lookout. I will try to stay out of your area Brad haha.


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## Cliffhanger9 (Aug 10, 2012)

I know someone mentioned about reading up on 3 phase earlier in the thread - just wanted to reiterate the importance of understanding what that means and considering how you are going to accommodate that requirement as a priority before getting too excited about most of these industrial tools mentioned here. Most residential homes simply do not have access to this kind of electrical supply. It's not a matter of just accommodating the voltage with just another line like your dryer uses. The current in a 3 Phase system flows and balances differently and as such the motor in the tool is designed differently than a single phase would be.

You _can_ install a phase converter _or_ swap out the motor with a single phase that would be more plug and play - so it is not the end of the world - but again, both of these options will add to the cost, in some cases significantly. Depending on the size and other variables, a phase converter could cost another 1k$ on top of the machine itself and tooling etc.

Just something to keep in mind..

Good luck! and thanks for sharing all these pics and ads for old American steel that just keeps getting passed on for generations because it was truly built that well. The industry has changed a lot even in the last 10-15 years and as the saying goes...they don't make em like they used too. Hope you end up rescuing another one from just getting scrapped!


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

nmurph said:


> That one is the very same one as this one from HF--
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I believe that he goes through those from LatheMaster before selling them.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> You guys have my curiousity fueled on the Hardinge lathes. Havent heard much about them until tonight. Guess I will be on the lookout. I will try to stay out of your area Brad haha.



Brown & Sharpe used to make a mag base magnifying glass. 

We used to use them on small work. 

You can sit down at the 59 and cuddle up to the work. 

I have thousands of hours on them. 

I could NEVER use the lathe as an excuse in over 30 years. 

They remove variables.


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## greg409 (Aug 10, 2012)

Antique/Vintage Rivett #5 Bench Metal Lathe | eBay


Brad, I didn't read all the posts - this was under "bench lathe" on my personal shopping network "$bay"

Maybe 8" throat?


luck,greg


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## indiansprings (Aug 10, 2012)

Mine is an South Bend out of a old high school tech program, 10" x 48", shopped around found it on CL for a grand. But I know two guys who have bought new Grizzlys and had expierenced machinst go over them and they hold good tolerances. One of your buddies could probably get one set up to hold the tolerances you need to hold. I've looked at the Grizzlies at one of their stores, they produce one of the better chinese machines imho. I've also had excellent customer service with any product I've purchased their, had no issues getting parts either.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

greg409 said:


> Antique/Vintage Rivett #5 Bench Metal Lathe | eBay
> 
> 
> Brad, I didn't read all the posts - this was under "bench lathe" on my personal shopping network "$bay"
> ...



Rivetts ROCK!!!!


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## procarbine2k1 (Aug 10, 2012)

greg409 said:


> Antique/Vintage Rivett #5 Bench Metal Lathe | eBay
> 
> 
> Brad, I didn't read all the posts - this was under "bench lathe" on my personal shopping network "$bay"
> ...



Fraid I would be on my way to pick that up if it were closer.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

Nothing would be cooler than to land a sweet old machine in nice condition like that. Again, the problem is knowing which one. Rob, you're my compass!


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## procarbine2k1 (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Brown & Sharpe used to make a mag base magnifying glass.
> 
> We used to use them on small work.
> 
> ...



Would love to hear more about them sometime. Too bad you arent closer.


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> Fraid I would be on my way to pick that up if it were closer.



He's also selling this one. Rivett 918 Bench/Metal Lathe | eBay


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## Tzed250 (Aug 10, 2012)

Hardinge has a reputation that is second to none.


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Brown & Sharpe used to make a mag base magnifying glass.
> 
> We used to use them on small work.
> 
> ...



The more you typed out about those 59's, the more I felt like eating my "too much $$ for what you get" comment. It looks like a simple lathe -- but my inexperience with lathes shone through there.

From what you're saying they sound like a good'n. :msp_smile:


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## blsnelling (Aug 10, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> Craftsman 6" Lathe
> 
> This is not a bad deal at all. Craftsman 109.01 or Atlas 101. In your price range, and something you can learn with. Not a production machine, but would do what you are wanting to do.



That looks like it might be a nice package. 200 miles from here.


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

Cliffhanger9 said:


> I know someone mentioned about reading up on 3 phase earlier in the thread - just wanted to reiterate the importance of understanding what that means and considering how you are going to accommodate that requirement as a priority before getting too excited about most of these industrial tools mentioned here. Most residential homes simply do not have access to this kind of electrical supply. It's not a matter of just accommodating the voltage with just another line like your dryer uses. The current in a 3 Phase system flows and balances differently and as such the motor in the tool is designed differently than a single phase would be.
> 
> You _can_ install a phase converter _or_ swap out the motor with a single phase that would be more plug and play - so it is not the end of the world - but again, both of these options will add to the cost, in some cases significantly. Depending on the size and other variables, a phase converter could cost another 1k$ on top of the machine itself and tooling etc.
> 
> ...



The motors use the 3rd phase to start and then run on two phases. . . Hence you can "jump" them and run fine on 240v. 

And you're right about old iron! The new stuff just isn't as tough.

The Japs do make some dang nice machines though, but ya gotta hunt and peck for good ones of those too.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> The more you typed out about those 59's, the more I felt like eating my "too much $$ for what you get" comment. It looks like a simple lathe -- but my inexperience with lathes shone through there.
> 
> From what you're saying they sound like a good'n. :msp_smile:




They often DON'T look like they are worth it. But after 1000s of hours, you use what works best.


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> They often DON'T look like they are worth it. But after 1000s of hours, you use what works best.



The name started ringing a bell too, like Rod had talked about them before.

It is pronounced "Har-Ding" right?


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 10, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> The name started ringing a bell too, like Rod had talked about them before.
> 
> It is pronounced "Har-Ding" right?




It's like Stihl. It depends. 

Some pronounce the second as "dinge". Like "singe".


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## Jim Timber (Aug 10, 2012)

Har-ding. Simple 

Put a 6 position turret on 'em and they really crank out the parts.


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## Metals406 (Aug 10, 2012)

After pages of posts, I honestly don't think Brad could go wrong with any of the lathes posted.

Brad, make up yer dang mind!


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 11, 2012)

Hard-inje is how they answer the phone in Elmira. 

But like Stihl, everybody knows what you mean. ;-))


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## steve316 (Aug 11, 2012)

*lathe or mill*

I looked at a lot of lahtes and mills I wanted US made even if used ; I bought china with tiwand head like Sharp.same with the lathe, it is just the way Randy said it is, you will spend about 1&1/2 days cleaning and adjusting.Then get ready to more on tooling.I believe you will happyer than with a 1930's machine. I say this because I am. Steve


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 11, 2012)

steve316 said:


> I looked at a lot of lahtes and mills I wanted US made even if used ; I bought china with tiwand head like Sharp.same with the lathe, it is just the way Randy said it is, you will spend about 1&1/2 days cleaning and adjusting.Then get ready to more on tooling.I believe you will happyer than with a 1930's machine. I say this because I am. Steve



Zactly!! Buy what you need and is good. All Asian isn't bad. I'm looking at a $650,000 machine that turns, drills and taps one end of a piece. Then transfers it to another chuck and does the same on the other end. 

But a good 1930s SB is a good lathe. It won WW2. A bad one is a bad one.


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## belgian (Aug 11, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> Hobby guys want small, so their demand keeps prices up. The bigger stuff isn't wanted in industry because they've gone to cnc. This leaves good machines being sent to South America, India, and china for cheap.



That's the main problem over here in europe. I've been looking for a small lathe for years, but since there are so many restorers of cars, bikes, etc, these small lathes go for high dollars in europe. The internet is full of adds from people searching for one.

I have an eye on a nice machine that belongs to a retired metal worker (incl. lots of tools), but he's so attached to it that he won"t let it go for the time being, although he doesn"t use it anymore. Great tips in this thread as well. Everybody tells me to take a machinist with you when you go to check one out ; there are a lot of things to look for.


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## Nitroman (Aug 11, 2012)

belgian said:


> That's the main problem over here in europe. I've been looking for a small lathe for years, but since there are so many restorers of cars, bikes, etc, these small lathes go for high dollars in europe. The internet is full of adds from people searching for one.
> 
> I have an eye on a nice machine that belongs to a retired metal worker (incl. lots of tools), but he's so attached to it that he won"t let it go for the time being, although he doesn"t use it anymore. Great tips in this thread as well. Everybody tells me to take a machinist with you when you go to check one out ; there are a lot of things to look for.



Call these guys up, they'll set you up. They are very big on Myford lathes.

Model Engineering and engineering tools online from RDG Tools Ltd Home Page (Engineering Tools) Tel 01422 885069 /884605


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## belgian (Aug 11, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Call these guys up, they'll set you up. They are very big on Myford lathes.
> 
> Model Engineering and engineering tools online from RDG Tools Ltd Home Page (Engineering Tools) Tel 01422 885069 /884605




Thanks for the link. The one I am targeting as mentioned before is a Myford 7 super....:msp_wink:


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## rattler362 (Aug 11, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> $1,500 asking price, with "lots of extra tools".



Brad were i work has about 10 just like that and they are solid i have been their since 94 and i remember them replaceing one compond.I keep waiting for them to start replaceing them so i can get one of the old one's but it hasent happend yet.


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## blsnelling (Aug 11, 2012)

What say the masses about a used Grizzly 9x19 w/stand for $750. This is a known good machine from a reputable source. 
G4000 9" x 19" Bench Lathe
G4001 Lathe Stand for G4000


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## blsnelling (Aug 11, 2012)

What Hardinge is this? Harding 2nd Op Chucking Lathe


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## Nitroman (Aug 11, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> What Hardinge is this? Harding 2nd Op Chucking Lathe



That turret lone is worth $1k, but note there is no compound so you would be stuck with something you cannot use. The turret is used to hold up to six individual tools so you could drill, ream and other a piece.

If the used Grizzly can hold good tolerances then go for it. You can learn on the machine, it'll do what you want to do, and show you the limitations of a small machine so you can save money and spend the time learning what you will purchase in the future to replace the it.


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## 54stude (Aug 11, 2012)

Brad,

Just remember one thing when it comes to mills and lathes.

"The cost of the machine tool is just the deposit".

If you buy a lathe that includes a few boxes of tooling you will likely be getting more value in those boxes than in the machine itself. Try to buy something from a private party that includes all of his tooling.

You want a 3 jaw and 4 jaw chuck if possible, drill chuck, boring bar, quick change toolpost, knurling tools, live centers, power feeds, face plate and drive dog, and a 5c collet chuck would be nice also. If any of these terms are jargon to you, research them before you buy.

Good luck, and try to buy "old" quality.


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## Metals406 (Aug 11, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> What say the masses about a used Grizzly 9x19 w/stand for $750. This is a known good machine from a reputable source.
> G4000 9" x 19" Bench Lathe
> G4001 Lathe Stand for G4000



I was looking at this exact lathe locally a few months ago for the same price! The "fun" money just wasn't there at the time, or I would have gotten it.


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## blsnelling (Aug 11, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> If the used Grizzly can hold good tolerances then go for it. You can learn on the machine, it'll do what you want to do, and show you the limitations of a small machine so you can save money and spend the time learning what you will purchase in the future to replace the it.



Not a bad idea. Of course, I might not ever replace it either. It belongs to a member here. He's only selling it to get something bigger to fit his needs.


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## blsnelling (Aug 11, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> What say the masses about a used Grizzly 9x19 w/stand for $750. This is a known good machine from a reputable source.
> G4000 9" x 19" Bench Lathe
> G4001 Lathe Stand for G4000





Metals406 said:


> I was looking at this exact lathe locally a few months ago for the same price! The "fun" money just wasn't there at the time, or I would have gotten it.





blsnelling said:


> Not a bad idea. Of course, I might not ever replace it either. It belongs to a member here. He's only selling it to get something bigger to fit his needs.



The deal's getting sweeter too. I just found out that it comes with a drill chuck, knurling tool, and a hand full of cutters. Sounds like a road trip might be coming up in the near future.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 11, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> What Hardinge is this? Harding 2nd Op Chucking Lathe



An older DV-59. Still work fine. 

A Hardinge "chucker" is normally a true turret lathe. No compound. 
Yeah this one has no compound either. But this one you could just pur one on. That turret could easily be traded for a compound. 
Rambling over.


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## angelo c (Aug 11, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Nik is "downing" in work. Besides that, it would be so nice to just step out into the garage and get 'r done, lol.



Ya know...ya could help pull him out of the water....he's NOT that big of a guy....hehe...lend a brother a hand.....come on now brad !!! J/K....


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 11, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> That turret lone is worth $1k, but note there is no compound so you would be stuck with something you cannot use. The turret is used to hold up to six individual tools so you could drill, ream and other a piece.
> 
> If the used Grizzly can hold good tolerances then go for it. You can learn on the machine, it'll do what you want to do, and show you the limitations of a small machine so you can save money and spend the time learning what you will purchase in the future to replace the it.


Just waking up and catching up on the thread. 

Not your first rodeo for sure!!!!!

And you got some buckles along the way I'll bet. 

Need anything up there let me know. 

Car or boat to get to your place?


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## Bob Wright (Aug 11, 2012)

I have a 1973 SB 10K which is the light ten and just love it. It was used and abused when i got it but she has been the best lathe for me. I also have a SB heavy 10 or 10L and a SB 15" which is rather big but still fits in my basement. My basement looks like a school shop as its all machine tools. I also have a SB drill press from the closed factory in SB and a SB metal shaper which i really like...Bob


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## angelo c (Aug 11, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> You know me too well! The more I learn, the more I'll worry about getting the right machine, the better machine I'll think I need! Don't you just love OCD, lol



I'm guessing weight and power have nothing to do with this discussion or Saw Troll would be here by now....hehe


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 11, 2012)

Hey 54Stude;
You right there!!!

However. Brad already paid for most all the tooling he will need.


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## blsnelling (Aug 11, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> However. Brad already paid for most all the tooling he will need.



I did?


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 11, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I did?



I think the message was "Paid in Full"'. 

Back at ya.


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## blsnelling (Aug 11, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> I think the message was "Paid in Full"'.
> 
> Back at ya.



You're quite the friend, Rob!


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## Mastermind (Aug 11, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> You're quite the friend, Rob!



Yes he is a great one to have.


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## LegDeLimber (Aug 12, 2012)

long thread, I haven't backread it yet..
Are You guys gonna spoil the surprise of tool point geometry, for him? 
textbooks tellya a wide radius and slow feed rate for smooth finish. makes an awesome squealer too!
or a wavy knurling tool (jk).
or how the metals used in saw construction tend to string and wad up like easter basket bedding.
that's with flat (usually brazed tip tooling) 
grab the porting tool (diamond grit) and cut some chip breakers into it.
cool til it crunches off from running in and out of that chrome plating in that undulating comb chamber.

You'll try differnt things to try and dampen out that tool chipping & dimension killing chatter/squeal.
pushing with a finger or stick is inconsistent and can get you sliced badly (razor band shavings)
sometimes a dampening wrap around or stuffed into the workpiece can be magic.

gathering the tooling is often the larger fraction of the cost of having the mill and lathe.

Mercy, I miss being in a job shop, gettin' paid to make other peoples "toys"!!
=
And I greatly appreciate what some of you saw builders are willing to post,
as I have to live rather vicariously through y'all nowdays.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 12, 2012)

Try increasing the feed to kill the chatter. Keeps the tool under load. Loading and unloading causes chatter. Much like drilling when the drill is trying to twist and untwist. 
Lesson over.


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## Tzed250 (Aug 12, 2012)

Getting rid of chatter is somewhat of an art, to me anyway. Usually accomplished with a sharp tool, reasonable RPMs, and enough feed to keep the tool loaded. On critical parts I will make trial finish cuts to ensure the parameters are working.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 12, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Getting rid of chatter is somewhat of an art, to me anyway. Usually accomplished with a sharp tool, reasonable RPMs, and enough feed to keep the tool loaded. On critical parts I will make trial finish cuts to ensure the parameters are working.



It sure ain't pure science!!!!

Sometimes a fresh insert and you got chatter. 

Coated inserts help......or uncoated inserts. 

Or swinging a dead cat over you head. 

WHATEVER works.


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## Tzed250 (Aug 12, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> It sure ain't pure science!!!!
> 
> Sometimes a fresh insert and you got chatter.
> 
> ...





On some machines, to swing a dead cat you have to take the gap out of the bed


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## dozerdan (Aug 12, 2012)

54stude said:


> Brad,
> 
> Just remember one thing when it comes to mills and lathes.
> 
> ...



That's some of the best advice of this thread.
Keep in mind that weight and mass is your friend when running a lathe or mill but not when you are moving them.
Buy a lathe that is larger then you think you need. For me the ideal home shop lathe should have a swing of 12-14", at least 36" between centers ( I cut gun barrels for a few of the locals), power feeds, ability to cut inch and metric threads for saws. I have dressed up many saw cranks that people pounded on the flywheel side with a hammer. 
Don't think that you will only cut pistons and cylinders with it. Once you get a lathe you will find all kinds of uses for it. A good example are those small metal bushing on the chain brake handle(starter side) on the Husky 372s, the locals loose them constantly. I make them about 20 at a time.
Don't worry about purchasing used if the price is right. The best machinist that I was ever around was one of my instructors in machine shop in the late 60s. He told us that the metal lathe is the only machine that can reproduce itself. So you can make anything on your lathe to repair it. Granted it would be easier to make some of those parts on a mill but that will be your next step, then a good mig and tig and it will keep going. I suggest that you find room for something larger then that little Grizzly
Here is a lathe that I picked up for 500.00. Italian built Troglia 13 1/2x 36. I had to cut a new bronze worm gear for the apron power feed. I cut 3 gears, the first one I cut out of plastic just to make sure that it would fit. Then I cut two more of them out of bronze.
It now has a Dorian tool post and holders, actually ist my second set of Quick change tool post and holders for the lathe, two crack head girls stole the first set up that I had.
Later
Dan


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## Nitroman (Aug 12, 2012)

Very, very nice heavy and solid looking machine.

So....let's talk about those crackhead girls. :msp_w00t:


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 12, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> On some machines, to swing a dead cat you have to take the gap out of the bed



NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!!!!!!







'Course trying to bolt the cat to the faceplate would NOT be funny.......



EXCELLENT play on words TZ. Excellent.....


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## Tzed250 (Aug 12, 2012)

For a cat you need a lathe dog....


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 12, 2012)

I figure he should buy a small good quality lathe. 

He'll learn. 

He'll buy. 

Repeat. 

Remember........ When I met him he had 1 chainsaw. 

He didn't go out to buy 2 or more. 

They never do. 

Brad. I'm setting mill tooling aside.........


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 12, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> For a cat you need a lathe dog....




BURN!!!!!!!!



I just got up and heading to work but I feel like I'm late to the game today........


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 12, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> For a cat you need a lathe dog....




I could do a comeback about spiders.....but it would be lame. 

An hours drive to work now. 

I'll check then. 

This is buggin' me.......


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## dozerdan (Aug 12, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Very, very nice heavy and solid looking machine.
> 
> So....let's talk about those crackhead girls. :msp_w00t:




Yes the lathe is built well. Most of those chips in the pan are from Inconel 625 from when I made the 5c spindle nose adapter for it. The hardest part that I had to work out on the lathe was wiring the 380 volt 3 phase 2 speed motor to run on 220 3 phase. It took me a while to figure that one out. I had no wiring diagram for the Italian built motor. I finally managed to wire it for 190 volt and feed it 220, it works fine that way.
The two girls got caught robbing another house and they admitted to taking my items. My last count was 5900.00. One is out of jail and the other one is still in. They never admitted to having any help at my house. One lathe chuck they stole weighed in at over 90 pound, these girls weighed 110 each and carried these items about 1/4 mile to the car.
Later
Dan


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 12, 2012)

Dozerdan;

Yeah. The Italians are nice. Graziano SAG 12. Nice and bottom heavy!


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## dozerdan (Aug 12, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Dozerdan;
> 
> Yeah. The Italians are nice. Graziano SAG 12. Nice and bottom heavy!



Are you talking about the lathe or the Italian women that are bottom heavy ? LOL

Local tech school has 4 of the Sag 12s that will be auctioned off soon, I will try to buy all of them.

Later
Dan


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## blsnelling (Aug 13, 2012)

My decision is made. Barring an exceptional deal coming along, I'm holding out for a Hardinge. Now, to find the right one and save my PS & Qs. My lathe fund got set back by the purchase of a new Foredom.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 13, 2012)

7827 MONARCH Model 10EE 12" x 20" Lathe | eBay

Kinda surprised no one mentioned these yet. It's hugely popular with machinists.

Chatter is also an indication of vibration in the part. Sometimes the only way to eliminate it is with damping. I use a rubber bungie strap on atv clutches, otherwise they "sing."


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 13, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> 7827 MONARCH Model 10EE 12" x 20" Lathe | eBay
> 
> Kinda surprised no one mentioned these yet. It's hugely popular with machinists.
> 
> Chatter is also an indication of vibration in the part. Sometimes the only way to eliminate it is with damping. I use a rubber bungie strap on atv clutches, otherwise they "sing."



That looks like a "fixer-upper". The noob wants a "plug and play"

10EEs will work 3 shift a day production for YEARS. but you have to watch the drives. Many and varied. 4HP. 

When I got a new HLVH for the shop it was $35,000. The 10EE was $48,000. Plus $4,500 for the upgraded paint job!!!!!!

Hardinge are THE easiest lathe in the world to thread on. Bar none. Spoils you rotten. 

One of each is the bees knees. An HLVH and a 10EE. 

The pair today will run north of $150,000. Without tooling. 
$2,500 for a new set of Hardinge collets. At least. 

But hard to justify. ;-))


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 13, 2012)

And Brad; 

Imso sure you will like that lathe, I'll buy it if you don't like it. 

I'll find you a small lathe for your basement......


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 13, 2012)

Should we start talking mill here or you going to start a separate thread????


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## Jim Timber (Aug 13, 2012)

Drive retrofits are easy - I'm more concerned about ways and lead screws. Paint doesn't concern me at all.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 13, 2012)

I don't know if I would saw repowering a 10EE is easy. Having someone else do it isn't easy. LOL.
Getting the specs right and controls can be a MAJOR project.


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## blsnelling (Aug 13, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> That looks like a "fixer-upper". The noob wants a "plug and play"



It's also way outside my stated budget.


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## Nitroman (Aug 13, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Should we start talking mill here or you going to start a separate thread????



Not yet. Wait 'till he finds out how frustrating/limiting it is running a lathe without a leadscrew and manual everything. Then we can start a new thread about buying a small(ish) lathe on a budget with leadscrew and power crossfeed.

Precision Drill Presses, Drilling/Tapping Units and Hydraulically Controlled Air Cylinders from Electro-Mechano in Wisconsin note the Rusnok mill on the left side middle page.

Or here: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/75380965/RUSNOK-MILL-ACCESSORIES


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## Bob Wright (Aug 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> It's also way outside my stated budget.



I got my SBL heavy 10 on ebay for 385 bucks. Drove to upper Mich and picked it up. Got it home and sold the box of extra parts that came with it that i didn't know about when i bought it for 400 bucks. Still have the lathe and a few more hundred bucks of new parts so from what i see it was free. Just some driving time. 
My SBL 15" was 300 and i did some machining for the guy of some new parts and ended up giving him 40 bucks cash and hauled it 6 miles home. Then turned around a week later and bought the sister of that lathe for 200. Sold some of it for parts and kept most of it for extras for mine. NE Ohio is the dumping grounds for lathes seems like there are piles of them. My buddy gets so many some of them he just scraps (when scrap was 300 a ton) I have 5 and my basement won't hold anymore. He called a few days ago with another good deal and my wife got the phone. Yup won't be getting that one...Bob


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## Metals406 (Aug 13, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> I got my SBL heavy 10 on ebay for 385 bucks. Drove to upper Mich and picked it up. Got it home and sold the box of extra parts that came with it that i didn't know about when i bought it for 400 bucks. Still have the lathe and a few more hundred bucks of new parts so from what i see it was free. Just some driving time.
> My SBL 15" was 300 and i did some machining for the guy of some new parts and ended up giving him 40 bucks cash and hauled it 6 miles home. Then turned around a week later and bought the sister of that lathe for 200. Sold some of it for parts and kept most of it for extras for mine. NE Ohio is the dumping grounds for lathes seems like there are piles of them. My buddy gets so many some of them he just scraps (when scrap was 300 a ton) I have 5 and my basement won't hold anymore. He called a few days ago with another good deal and my wife got the phone. Yup won't be getting that one...Bob



Bob, hook Brad up! You should go with him and Nik to go scout some lathes.


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## brncreeper (Aug 13, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> I got my SBL heavy 10 on ebay for 385 bucks. Drove to upper Mich and picked it up. Got it home and sold the box of extra parts that came with it that i didn't know about when i bought it for 400 bucks. Still have the lathe and a few more hundred bucks of new parts so from what i see it was free. Just some driving time.
> My SBL 15" was 300 and i did some machining for the guy of some new parts and ended up giving him 40 bucks cash and hauled it 6 miles home. Then turned around a week later and bought the sister of that lathe for 200. Sold some of it for parts and kept most of it for extras for mine. NE Ohio is the dumping grounds for lathes seems like there are piles of them. My buddy gets so many some of them he just scraps (when scrap was 300 a ton) I have 5 and my basement won't hold anymore. He called a few days ago with another good deal and my wife got the phone. Yup won't be getting that one...Bob


I've got Heavy 10 that was given to me, tooling and everything. Took all my Bobcat 310 could give just to get it unloaded and in the garage. Well, later I come to find out the bull gear is missing a tooth and the chuck is stuck on the spindle. Still, 200 bucks for a new bull gear isn't too bad. Now if I can just get the 3 jaw chuck off the spindle I can start playing.


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## huskydave (Aug 13, 2012)

hmm,,, Ill be honest just came back for the night but I am a Licenced machinist by trade. The table top junk is for gunsmiths etc.. guys who machine small parts under 1" You want a toolroom lathe which is slightly bigger but has the capacity for larger parts / more feeds/speeds. The best lathes around are german made imo but get what you can find. The toolrom lathes usually have an 6"-8" chuck and come with 220-660volt motors. You get what you pay for the same as saws so choose wisely.


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## Tzed250 (Aug 13, 2012)

Table top junk for gunsmiths???

Do you know what kind of precision and accuracy is needed to create a competitive benchrest rifle??


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## nmurph (Aug 13, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Table top junk for gunsmiths???
> 
> Do you know what kind of precision and accuracy is needed to create a competitive benchrest rifle??



Yeah John, what do you know about guns and lathes:msp_wink:. I really think you guys are over-selling Brad on an old iron lathe. Look what Randy and Stump are turning out with chinese junk. You don't need the kind of precision for cutting cylinders that you do when you are turning a helicopter parts.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 13, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Table top junk for gunsmiths???
> 
> Do you know what kind of precision and accuracy is needed to create a competitive benchrest rifle??



Nope he doesn't. Ol man Hart would just chuckle. 

Virgil King would laugh out loud. A couple of tenths bolt to receiver. 

Ever read "The Houston Warehouse" in Precision Shooting Magazine?

About 4 orders above what most people even realize. 

Consistent sub .060 groups. 

I could tell the whole truth but no one would believe me.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 13, 2012)

nmurph said:


> Yeah John, what do you know about guns and lathes:msp_wink:. I really think you guys are over-selling Brad on an old iron lathe. Look what Randy and Stump are turning out with chinese junk. You don't need the kind of precision for cutting cylinders that you do when you are turning a helicopter parts.



With aircraft. Al long as it's perfect, don't worry. ;-))


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## blsnelling (Aug 13, 2012)

nmurph said:


> Yeah John, what do you know about guns and lathes:msp_wink:. I really think you guys are over-selling Brad on an old iron lathe. Look what Randy and Stump are turning out with chinese junk. You don't need the kind of precision for cutting cylinders that you do when you are turning a helicopter parts.



I believe you are right, but...........Rob's playing to my personality. I'll be much happier if I wait and find a good, solid, Hardinge. I definately appreciate quality. I know that at least four of our sponsors are using Chinese lathes. They will certainly do the job, no doubt about that. But then again, it's much more rewarding to own top quality tools. The challenge is to make that happen in a cost efficient manner!


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I believe you are right, but...........Rob's playing to my personality. I'll be much happier if I wait and find a good, solid, Hardinge. I definately appreciate quality. I know that at least four of our sponsors are using Chinese lathes. They will certainly do the job, no doubt about that. But then again, it's much more rewarding to own top quality tools. The challenge is to make that happen in a cost efficient manner!



You missed it B-Rad.....

A SB would be great and fit in your basement. 

Mom & Pop shops in WW II made a major part of the parts that won the war. Millions ave and make everything on them. Brad just seems to find a number of Hardinge.


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## tlandrum (Aug 13, 2012)

yeah chinese lathes just cant do the job ,huh? View attachment 248529
View attachment 248530


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## blsnelling (Aug 13, 2012)

Double pumper alky carb:biggrin:


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## Justsaws (Aug 13, 2012)

You could have been cutting cylinders and pistons since yesterday but noooooooo, still looking for that golden deal on an antique. Time to decide, sn the lathe a new hobby or a tool. Want one to work with or work on.

Are you looking to make camera parts, long arm parts or spin a piston and cylinder for a chainsaw?


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## blsnelling (Aug 13, 2012)

I've gotten by this long without one. I might as well wait on that golden deal, lol. Besides, I'm spending all my money on replacing screwed up topends and Foredoms


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 14, 2012)

B-Rads brain is in overload......

Like someone dropping in from the 60s and buying a computer. Kinda knows what it is and that he wants one. 

BUT WHICH ONE???????










Like watching a train wreck in slo mo. 




In a week we'll call in CSI to check brain splatter patterns. 





Quick!!! Wrap his head with duct tape!! 




In a week


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## Justsaws (Aug 14, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I've gotten by this long without one. I might as well wait on that golden deal, lol. Besides, I'm spending all my money on replacing screwed up topends and Foredoms



If it makes you feel any better I have purchased waaaaay more boring needed tools this year than exciting wanted tools. If you can wait the deal will show up, just have the cash handy and be ready to jump on it. There are so many people in Ohio that flip mills and lathes that the deals do not last long, makes finding deals on 1124s look easy.

Get your plan for moving it together because many times part of the deal seems to be it has to go, "yesterday".


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## Jim Timber (Aug 14, 2012)

Next thing you know, there's a crew bringing these into your shop...


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## Nitroman (Aug 14, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Nope he doesn't. Ol man Hart would just chuckle.
> 
> Virgil King would laugh out loud. A couple of tenths bolt to receiver.
> 
> ...



The rich guy who owned a really loooonnnngg warehouse? They made receivers with a shaper, bolts with a lathe and a rolling backstop to shoot at and shot bugholes all day long? I used to subscribe.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 14, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> The rich guy who owned a really loooonnnngg warehouse? They made receivers with a shaper, bolts with a lathe and a rolling backstop to shoot at and shot bugholes all day long? I used to subscribe.



Small world. Used to go to deer camp with Bob Bell. 

Bought some of his gunsmiths stuff. Check writers list in some old ones.

Now THAT BOY had some stories to tell.


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## Tzed250 (Aug 14, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Nope he doesn't. Ol man Hart would just chuckle.
> 
> Virgil King would laugh out loud. A couple of tenths bolt to receiver.
> 
> ...




Truthfully, I go back and read the "Houston Warehouse" article every so often as the story intrigues me. My dad purchased "The Accurate Rifle" by Warren Page in 1975 and I wore that book out. I have been interested in precision rifles ever since. 


Another legendary Machinist/Gunsmith was Ferris Pindell. For more than thirty years now the cartridge that he developed with Lou Palmisano, the 6mmPPC, has dominated benchrest shooting.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 14, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Truthfully, I go back and read the "Houston Warehouse" article every so often as the story intrigues me. My dad purchased "The Accurate Rifle" by Warren Page in 1975 and I wore that book out. I have been interested in precision rifles ever since.
> 
> 
> Another legendary Machinist/Gunsmith was Ferris Pindell. For more than thirty years now the cartridge that he developed with Lou Palmisano, the 6mmPPC, has dominated benchrest shooting.




Bob Bell and John Amber had the office for Gun Digest for years. Bob had Johns Made by Colt Gattling gun in the corner of his office. Ser. No. 001

At camp I said John Buhmiller shot about 83 elephants. A burbon baritone (scotch, sorry Bob) said 151 or some such number. He had corresponded with John for years. 

Bob did the scopes testing for Gun Digest for maybe 25 years. 

Small dam world. First time anyone knew about the Warehouse and I am around some serious gun folks. Folks who "have"'to spend a week at the SHOT show. Bastards ;-))
Phil Sharpe's family farm is on the way to work.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 14, 2012)

You read Precision Shooting?

About the only mag that isn't gun ####.


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## Tzed250 (Aug 14, 2012)

I read PS from time to time. 

My next rifle might be a bench/live varmint gun chambered in 22BR. I'd probably get laughed at when I put my 20X Unertl 1 1/2 on it though.


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## sun64 (Aug 14, 2012)

Brad, I have not read all the pages on this post, too many , so am not sure if this has been mentioned before on another page. 
I am not a machinist but do a little for myself.
If the lathe is anything like the Colchester on this rig with a worn bed near the chuck then that is a bummer. You have to be careful with it and keep measuring.
What you can do on a second hand or new cheap lathe is buy yourself a few magnetic dial indicators. They are not that expensive.
If you are machining something critical then place the dial indicator tip on the machined faces of the tool post / cross slide etc , this will give you a better indication of how much you are actually moving the cross slide / toolpost.
Of course have a play with some other material first before machining anything crucial. 
Measure your materials diameter for instance, set up the dial indicator and take a cut checking what you dialled in and what the indicator guage shows. Then measure the material. This should tell you how much play if any , you have on the lathe , if you cannot adjust it out, then at least you know how far it runs out , or use the dial indicators all the time.
Hope this helps some


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## Stihlofadeal64 (Aug 14, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> yeah chinese lathes just cant do the job ,huh? View attachment 248529
> View attachment 248530



:msp_w00t:  :msp_flapper:


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## Stihlofadeal64 (Aug 14, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Very, very nice heavy and solid looking machine.
> 
> So....let's talk about those crackhead girls. :msp_w00t:



opcorn:


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 14, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> I read PS from time to time.
> 
> My next rifle might be a bench/live varmint gun chambered in 22BR. I'd probably get laughed at when I put my 20X Unertl 1 1/2 on it though.



Al Wardrop used them. And NOBODY laughed at Al at Williamsport PA.


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## Bob Wright (Aug 14, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Bob, hook Brad up! You should go with him and Nik to go scout some lathes.



Brad sending a PM. Just talked to my buddy Craig and he has 4 American irons for sale....Bob


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## blsnelling (Aug 14, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> Brad sending a PM. Just talked to my buddy Craig and he has 4 American irons for sale....Bob



Oh my! I'd better quit trashing people's saws and get some money saved up:hmm3grin2orange:


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## parrisw (Aug 15, 2012)

Brad get one with power feed, you'll thank me later. I'm still on my first lathe and it has power feed/ power cross feed as well. I've spend allot of time in front of the late especially making mandrels and the power feed is a hand a wrist saver when making many many cuts, and is real nice to get much better finish cuts with. I use it all the time when doing chainsaw cylinder piston work. For myself I'd never buy anything less then 9", that's what I have, and you have to get tricky sometimes with large cylinders, cutting the base's, you have to hang the cylinder out farther so it wont hit the cross slide, and it would be nice to not have to do that.

I bought the lathe with just doing chainsaw work in mind, and since then I've done so much more with it, so keep options open and try to get the best you can get. Oh and you better double your budget if you want to get some tooling that you can actually cut stuff with! LOL I paid $1400 for my lathe with no tooling, and since then have spent much much more on tooling and accessories.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

I suggested the DV-59 for a couple of reasons. 

The budget!!!!

It will give him the most quality for the money. 

A GREAT lathe to learn on. It separates the functions well. 

He WILL want another lathe. AFTER he finds out what he wants. Resale is great. 

He doesn't like it. I'll buy it. 

Repair parts no problem. But most likely won't need them. 

Again. The quality. After tens of thousands of hours with any lathe to use, the breakdown. 

96% on the D -59 Hardinge 
3% on the TBF Hardinge 
Maybe 1% where threads were needed. HLVH land. 

If one lathe?? HLVH hands down. No question!!!!

But till he can afford a QUALITY lathe, which he WILL want......

DV-59.

O You know B-Rad. 

He ain't gonna just have one small Chinese homelite.


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## parrisw (Aug 15, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> I suggested the DV-59 for a couple of reasons.
> 
> The budget!!!!
> 
> ...



True, but I would look for an old Southbend. I have a old Hercus model A, pretty much the exact same as a southbend, I love it, and sometimes wish it were bigger.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

parrisw said:


> True, but I would look for an old Southbend. I have a old Hercus model A, pretty much the exact same as a southbend, I love it, and sometimes wish it were bigger.



I posted that may be the ticket. And he could get it in his basement. 

He has a staircase with a 90 deg turn!!!! 

He could send his wife off shopping, pull the carpet back, cut a hole in the floor, use a crane to lower it thru, fix the floor, and put the carpet back. 

Guy did that with a Bridgeport. 

The DV-59 won't fit in the basement. So I don't have to help him get the first lathe OUT of his basement.


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## parrisw (Aug 15, 2012)

Southbend won't take up that much room. Mine is in my garage, and my garage isn't, that big.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Southbend won't take up that much room. Mine is in my garage, and my garage isn't, that big.



ZACKLY! 
And easier to move down his basement stairs. And since he wants it there. Someday we'll be rigging a lathe down his stairs.


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## 7sleeper (Aug 15, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> ZACKLY!
> And easier to move down his basement stairs. And since he wants it there. Someday we'll be rigging a lathe down his stairs.



You mean a GTG at his place to get his new lathe in the basement while his wife is out at the supermarket. I can just imagine a bunch of guys with dirty shoes running through his house trying to get that hunk of steel into the basement without damaging to much("Sorry about the couch, the paintings, the chandelier...").... "OOOPPPPSSSS sorry my dear I swear there was a mini tornado in our house, I have nothing to do with it.... and I'm just upping the kids allowance (to keep those extortionists quite) it was just about time after so many years......the guys outside who just came by for a spontanious grill party thought you were going to get the barbecue stuff...." 
:hmm3grin2orange:

7


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## Jim Timber (Aug 15, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> ZACKLY!
> And easier to move down his basement stairs. And since he wants it there. Someday we'll be rigging a lathe down his stairs.



Egress window - ya need those holes the foundation anyway.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

B-Rad;
Avoid the shopping and questions. 

Get one lathe. 

Dean Smith & Grace 13X30

Tool room lathe

5600 lbs

The "Rolls Royce" of lathes. 

Really. 

RR would use no other lathe. 

I would drive cross county for one. Naked. 

Deep dark need.


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## LegDeLimber (Aug 15, 2012)

you guys didn't torment the man about spindle hole size?
3/4 or 7/8 through the head aint much use unless you're threading welding rods.

and on the move in, liquor that Man up and convince him that using foot long pieces of 3/4 rebar
for rollers, on the hard wood floor, would be an awesome first knurling project!
-
Wouldn't something with 5' tween centers, a removable gap bed that'd let you swing a piece 20" dia x8" thick
with 3 and a quarter inch head hole ( with plates and 4 jaw to match) just be handy as all heck !?
sorry for dreaming a moment...
-
on more serious thought, having a compound slide, a sturdy boring bar and a couple of magnet& knuckle rod based travel indicators is gonna open up a whole world of squish band tweaking for him.

But when we read that he's took to 4 jawing carb bodies, to mod the venturi,
you'll know the machinist bug's bit him proper!


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## Jim Timber (Aug 15, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> B-Rad;
> Avoid the shopping and questions.
> 
> Get one lathe.
> ...



Now we agree on something Rob! But it needs to be a bigger size for me.


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## parrisw (Aug 15, 2012)

Quick change tool post is also a must. You better order one of them with your first tool order. Toolsforcheap is great!


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## wcorey (Aug 15, 2012)

A lot of good info posted here so far…
Been avoiding commenting as it’s a pretty complex subject to sum up much of without writing a book on it. 

I was sort of brought up on South Bends so I’m pretty comfortable with them and they’re a good all around machine that tend to be good bang for the buck. So I’ve had a heavy 10 with ample tooling for the past 20 something years and it has served me well for 90% of what I do. Until fairly recently I’ve been lucky enough to have close geographic access to a couple 10EE’s but now the only one is an hour away, need to plan a few jobs for it before it’s worth the trip.

My top choice was always a well equipped Hardinge toolroom setup but a 10EE would be a close second. That said, in 30 years of looking I still haven’t found either in a $ range I could justify, just missed more than a few deals though. It’s a lofty goal to hold out for and in the meantime I’d tend to pick up whatever comes along first for a useable good deal, then move it on after. 
I certainly agree with those saying that it would be beneficial in the long run to get a bigger/better machine as it seems obvious Brad will quickly utilize the potential of a lathe for going way beyond just cutting cylinder decks. 

IMO don’t be tempted with getting along with a Hardinge second operation setup (unless it’s a deal you can't refuse), so what if they’re dead reliable when you’re just going to flip it as soon as a nice toolroom setup comes along. Having no threading gears and power feed is a huge disadvantage, though the power feed alone I could live without.
I’ve had one of those little Hardinge dv’s sitting disassembled in a corner for years in case I wanted to get into some volume production (which is what they’re really intended for) but have never so far had a use to bother with it.

One thing I haven’t seen anyone bring up (or I missed it) is the advantage to getting a belt driven as opposed to a geared head as a first machine. Easy to adapt different phase/voltage motors to most belt setups for one thing. Many are easy to break down to individual components for moving, I got the SB H10 down my buklhead into the basement by myself without too much effort. 
But mostly because belts are fairly forgiving of mistakes and can be adjusted to slip a bit in extreme circumstances where in a similar situation a geared head could result in quite a bit of mayhem. Until things start becoming intuitive it’s pretty easy to be looking down at a dial when starting a cut and not notice you’re feeding the wrong axis until tool/part contact is made and things happen very fast at that point. Where a belt drive can just slip and stall rotation, the same mistake on a big geared head can result in a virtual explosion of tooling and parts. I’ve seen pretty large items go ricocheting around a shop and end up impaled in walls, safety glasses only go so far against artillery fire…


Bill


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## timmcat (Aug 15, 2012)

I picked up my South Bend 6x36 for $300 at a flea market, and dropped another $150 on a good used chuck, its never let me down and the quick change gearing for the feed is the slickest thing out there. We have an old SB 9x36 at work, with manual gear change and its a real workhorse. I agree about the belt drive for sure, forgiveness goes a long way for a beginner.


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## Bob Wright (Aug 15, 2012)

One thing you always hear when lathe shopping is get lots of tooling. Thats true to some extent and some you might not ever need or its wore out and that could drive the price up in the beginning. I got my 1st bare bones SB 10K with a chuck and a lantern tool post, no stand and a 3 ph motor i couldn't use. 129 bucks took care of the motor with a new one from the local farm store and i made my own stand. Then i made a tool block designed by me for what i thought i would do with it. Then i started making more projects and some of them lead to other needed projects. Now i can do any job that walks in the door that the lathe is capabile of handling. Extra chucks and some misc tooling was picked up on ebay, chusk backplates i can make as well as faceplates and my ER40 collet chuck. Made a pile of other attachments like my cross slide hole driller and the ball/radius turner. I did buy a new steady rest since i couldn't build it at the time. I do lots of milling in/on my lathe and people wonder how i do it. But i was trained and have 8,000 hrs running one so i knew what i wanted and needed over the years. Some of my projects...Bob


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## Bob Wright (Aug 15, 2012)

Few more pics...Bob


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## parrisw (Aug 15, 2012)

I've looked at lots of your work Bob on your Yahoo group. You do nice work!!


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> Now we agree on something Rob! But it needs to be a bigger size for me.



Yeah but big means no rpm. The 13x30 had I think a REAL 7 1/2 Hp. And past 2200 RPM I think. 

RPM is nice.

And you can make roughing cuts with that lathe that would make a noob gag.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 15, 2012)

My voest has 7.5hp too, and you need body armor before you dog it in the cut.

Biggest chip they advise in the manual is 2cm square - they feel and sound like bullets long before you get that big.

High rpm is over rated. Mine tops out at 1500 (geared head), and I wouldn't want to spin a 10" chuck much faster anyway. For doing little crap, or production, then it makes sense to wind it up faster; just not for me. Since I feed it via VFD, I could turn 6000 rpm with no problem - oil pump might explode, but I could. They were offered with 2K ranges, so over-clocking it to that or a bit more wouldn't hurt anything (Forrest Addy has the same lathe as mine and he's done 2500 rpm).


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## Bob Wright (Aug 15, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> And you can make roughing cuts with that lathe that would make a noob gag.



Here is a 3/16" deep cut on some 4" round bar with my little SB. Just for giggles...Bob
Lathe cutting... video by aametalmaster - Photobucket


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> My voest has 7.5hp too, and you need body armor before you dog it in the cut.
> 
> Biggest chip they advise in the manual is 2cm square - they feel and sound like bullets long before you get that big.
> 
> High rpm is over rated. Mine tops out at 1500 (geared head), and I wouldn't want to spin a 10" chuck much faster anyway. For doing little crap, or production, then it makes sense to wind it up faster; just not for me. Since I feed it via VFD, I could turn 6000 rpm with no problem - oil pump might explode, but I could. They were offered with 2K ranges, so over-clocking it to that or a bit more wouldn't hurt anything (Forrest Addy has the same lathe as mine and he's done 2500 rpm).


Maybe your VFD could but I doubt the bearings are good for 6k. 

I sent Forrest some reference books a while ago...... Gotta call and chat with a fellow members of "The Olde Pharts Club". The boy knows his machines. He needed help in materials selection and heat treat. It's good to help him. He does a LOT of fine things for folks.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> Here is a 3/16" deep cut on some 4" round bar with my little SB. Just for giggles...Bob
> Lathe cutting... video by aametalmaster - Photobucket




Heavy 10s are nice aren't they. I got to learn to post videos.


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## Bob Wright (Aug 15, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Heavy 10s are nice aren't they.



This was with my "light 10 or 10K" which is a jacked up 9". Everyone says (i don't listen) that you can't take a big cut with a 9" SBL. So i just had to do it. My 10L or heavy 10 is waiting for a motor. Its on another machine LOL. I have pics of a 1/2" deep cut. Pretty much made 1" bar stock go away with chips...Bob


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> This was with my "light 10 or 10K" which is a jacked up 9". Everyone says (i don't listen) that you can't take a big cut with a 9" SBL. So i just had to do it. My 10L or heavy 10 is waiting for a motor. Its on another machine LOL. I have pics of a 1/2" deep cut. Pretty much made 1" bar stock go away with chips...Bob



Yeah..... But go to Hastalloy big diameter and fast feed. ;-))


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## Jim Timber (Aug 15, 2012)

The bearings would be fine. The plunger oil pump might not like pushing that much volume though. There's a sight glass in the headstock to show the pump is working, and that's squirting pretty hard at 1500.


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## blsnelling (Aug 15, 2012)

And here I thought finding a nice lathe would be the hard part!


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## Bob Wright (Aug 15, 2012)

My basement only has 3 steps which i cover with plywood when taking in my projects. My 15" SB is pretty heavy and i had it hooked to my neighbors forklift and it went right down that ramp with a chain and its pretty much still sitting where we left it due to other projects and time. My 10K i moved in during the winter and it went down those 3 steps on a plastic sled from wally mart and snow that i shoveled down those steps for the sled and yup it melted LOL...Bob


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## blsnelling (Aug 15, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> My basement only has 3 steps which i cover with plywood when taking in my projects. My 15" SB is pretty heavy and i had it hooked to my neighbors forklift and it went right down that ramp with a chain and its pretty much still sitting where we left it due to other projects and time. My 10K i moved in during the winter and it went down those 3 steps on a plastic sled from wally mart and snow that i shoveled down those steps for the sled and yup it melted LOL...Bob



Find any gems in the neighbors barn?


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> And here I thought finding a nice lathe would be the hard part!



Nice starter lathe Brad ....









I'm calling the crane guy and cutting a hole in the floor. Send Lisa and Anna out shopping.


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## blsnelling (Aug 15, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Nice starter lathe Brad ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm starting to save for the next upgrade.


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## Tzed250 (Aug 15, 2012)

..


Little project I was working on today. 3" mild steel plate. 6000 lbs. I probably took 200 lbs. off of it. The machine has a 25hp spindle motor, 0-4000 RPM. I'll get to run a couple more tomorrow.





Plate by zweitakt250, on Flickr


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## Reyn (Aug 15, 2012)

This pic is grainy but I was on a call today and saw this under a canopy on a vacant building. It had Southbend on it and looked antique. Don't know if it worked or not. It was pretty big. Don't know who owns it. I thought about finding who owned it and what the deal was. I snapped a pic because I remembered this thread. I know nothing about lathes.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> ..
> 
> 
> Little project I was working on today. 3" mild steel plate. 6000 lbs. I probably took 200 lbs. off of it. The machine has a 25hp spindle motor, 0-4000 RPM. I'll get to run a couple more tomorrow.
> ...



We were cutting some 3" plate. Had the program for 22 silhouette animals. Drives people crazy trying to knock them over. Gotta be nice to the welder. 

We run a G&L


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## Bob Wright (Aug 15, 2012)

I ran a Sidney lathe like this one (first pic) on afternoon shift after my dayshift job (2nd pic) back when i was real poor. 16 hrs a day for years Made some Doctors boat payments i guess. LOL. The 2nd pic was in the old Silver and Deming Plant which at the turn of the century made the term Silver and Deming or just S&D as in turned down shank drill bits which we all use now...Bob


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> I ran a Sidney lathe like this one (first pic) on afternoon shift after my dayshift job (2nd pic) back when i was real poor. 16 hrs a day for years Made some Doctors boat payments i guess. LOL. The 2nd pic was in the old Silver and Deming Plant which at the turn of the century made the term Silver and Deming or just S&D as in turned down shank drill bits which we all use now...Bob




S&D ........accept no substitute.


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## Bob Wright (Aug 15, 2012)

Reyn said:


> This pic is grainy but I was on a call today and saw this under a canopy on a vacant building. It had Southbend on it and looked antique.



Its at least a SB 16" or even an 18" but i never saw an 18" with a bell leg. But then again i have never seen in person a SBL over 16" just pics...Bob
Some great SBL info The SBL Workshop - Home


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## Nitroman (Aug 15, 2012)

Just a few hours away Brad. Complete with attachments and tooling. Take your flatbed.

http://www.stevenstreespades.com/DeanSmithandGrace17Lathe.htm


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 15, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Just a few hours away Brad. Complete with attachments and tooling. Take your flatbed.
> 
> Dean Smith and Grace 17 Lathe


I like the old round head ones. Don't get it Brad. 

LiKe in our shop. A crane over the lathe....

Over EVERY machine.


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## LegDeLimber (Aug 16, 2012)

first try at attaching pics. Looks like I got a double shot.
View attachment 248777
View attachment 248778
View attachment 248777
View attachment 248778

Ran the these two for Harper, back in late 80's. just happened to auction notice about the company last year and went to see what happened.
bought the pc that I'm sitting at.

Also, wouldn't have even dreamed of letting my hair get that long when I was doing that work.
But a longer beard does help keep a few hot shaving out of the shirt front!


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 16, 2012)

LegDeLimber said:


> first try at attaching pics. Looks like I got a double shot.
> View attachment 248777
> View attachment 248778
> View attachment 248777
> ...



Most folks can't understand when it takes an hour to set up a part, turn it around or over. 

Or how many insert edges you can go thru getting thru the scale.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 16, 2012)

Or balk when you tell them your cost on the insert really is $16, and complain when you refuse to work for mexican wages...

I started quoting higher and higher to get rid of some customers, and when they persisted bugging me I started telling them it might be 6 months before I could get to it.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 16, 2012)

Or trying to explain that you have to buy special tooling. 

Tell them:"

"Okay you can buy and keep the boring bar to make the part. "

They think that would be fine. 

As a machinist you always have a 6" scale. 

Handy when you want to measure how far their eyes buldge out when you tell them what a 2" carbide boring bar costs.


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## LegDeLimber (Aug 16, 2012)

...or a top box loaded with bout 5~6 clamps, 
several bags of those double end- left right thread clamp screws & extra hex keys.
pocket shims , all wear parts, for every tool ( all mounted in holders for a large aloris knock-off tool post. 
titanium nitrided triangle and round types , on 1/2 ic insert size prolly around 8~9 geometry/nose radius.
Management (LeeBoy) let me get away with it cause I could show that it meant the production line was never stopped for lack of a way to get a roller drum turned.

Mercy sakes, I miss that autonomy with someone elses wallet.
was old school , Family/private owned, sorta "eccentric" type company (been sold since), but if you earned their trust , could be good people to work for.

The pdf has a pic of him.
http://www.leeboy.com/sf-docs/leeboy-news/may-13-2003-industry-pioneer-b-r-lee-dies-at-69.pdf%3Fsfvrsn%3D2%2BB+r+Lee&hl=en&complete=0&site=webhp&ct=clnk]Denver, NC -- B. R. Lee, founder of B. R. Lee Industries (LeeBoy) passed away suddenly on Friday, May 9, 2003 at the age of 69.[/url]


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## Chris J. (Aug 16, 2012)

Reyn said:


> This pic is grainy but I was on a call today and saw this under a canopy on a vacant building. It had Southbend on it and looked antique. Don't know if it worked or not. It was pretty big. Don't know who owns it. I thought about finding who owned it and what the deal was. I snapped a pic because I remembered this thread. I know nothing about lathes.



Dang, man, you might be be able to get that for a song :musical-note:!


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## blsnelling (Aug 16, 2012)

Chris J. said:


> Dang, man, you might be be able to get that for a song :musical-note:!



And have it delivered here!


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 16, 2012)

Dug out a 4 jaw for ya.......

Ship it or bring it????


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## blsnelling (Aug 16, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Dug out a 4 jar for ya.......
> 
> Ship it or bring it????



4 jaw? Bring it....along with the lathe you find me


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## Bob Wright (Aug 17, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Dug out a 4 jaw for ya.......



Just one. I have 8 chucks just for one machine because you can never have too many. Plus i can do runs of parts in 8's and just swap chucks with a fresh part for that step...Bob


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## belgian (Aug 20, 2012)

After a bit of pushing and bargaining, the ole man finally gave in and now his lathe finally is in my garage.....just need to find a decent spot, but that won't be a big problem.
Whatcha say boys, don't she look purty ???


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## Tzed250 (Aug 20, 2012)

BeautIful !!!


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## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2012)

Very nice!


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## parrisw (Aug 20, 2012)

Those lathe's are real nice, too bad its only 7" swing though. Too small for what I want, and around here they are $$$$$$$$$


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## belgian (Aug 20, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Those lathe's are real nice, too bad its only 7" swing though. Too small for what I want, and around here they are $$$$$$$$$



These myfords are very wanted over here by restorers of cars, bikes, etc. I live nearby Liege which is/was hometown of many gunsmiths that used to work on these lathes. Some say they are overrated, others love them to death. All I can say is that its mechanics look real nice and condition is seems to be perfect. 7" is maybe small indeed, but if you need to go big, there are quite a few people, especially farmers, who have big lathes around, at least in my place. Space is a key factor as well.... I don't have room enough for a big one. 

My budget was not too big either, so being able to buy it directly while avoiding the net is a big bonus (less than 1k)


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## parrisw (Aug 20, 2012)

belgian said:


> These myfords are very wanted over here by restorers of cars, bikes, etc. I live nearby Liege which is/was hometown of many gunsmiths that used to work on these lathes. Some say they are overrated, others love them to death. All I can say is that its mechanics look real nice and condition is seems to be perfect. 7" is maybe small indeed, but if you need to go big, there are quite a few people, especially farmers, who have big lathes around, at least in my place. Space is a key factor as well.... I don't have room enough for a big one.
> 
> My budget was not too big either, so being able to buy it directly while avoiding the net is a big bonus (less than 1k)



Good deal, however like I said, they are very nice lathes. But they are worth way more then I think they are, around here anyway, a well used one goes for way more then I paid for my mint restored Hercus 9"x36".


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## Nitroman (Aug 20, 2012)

belgian said:


> These myfords are very wanted over here by restorers of cars, bikes, etc. I live nearby Liege which is/was hometown of many gunsmiths that used to work on these lathes. Some say they are overrated, others love them to death. All I can say is that its mechanics look real nice and condition is seems to be perfect. 7" is maybe small indeed, but if you need to go big, there are quite a few people, especially farmers, who have big lathes around, at least in my place. Space is a key factor as well.... I don't have room enough for a big one.
> My budget was not too big either, so being able to buy it directly while avoiding the net is a big bonus (less than 1k)



While small, and this is a relative term, the Myford's are extremely accurate lathes. With the proper attachements, and there are many, almost anything can be done on them. If you guys go over to RDG Tools based out of the UK, you'll find the Myford is well-supported.

There is a fellow from the UK who wrote several books on model making used his Myford for almost all of his projects. I have one he wrote devoted to milling operations just using the lathe.

The fellow I bought my Atlas mill from made a pulley for one of the V-belt drives on the Atlas, he sent me a photo of it while he was machining the taper of the valley for the belt...amazing.

You may not be able to hog out a round bar of cast iron to make a cylinder liner for a GM 6-71, you could sure make a cylinder for an old chainsaw you could no longer find cylinders for.


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## Vibes (Aug 20, 2012)

Brad sent you a PM.


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## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2012)

Vibes said:


> Brad sent you a PM.



Thanks. I'll check it out. I'm still saving my P&Qs. I'm better than 1/2 way to my goal of $1500. Anyone interested in a running and complete Mall 7?:biggrin:

[video=youtube_share;WwSypCPGebI]http://youtu.be/WwSypCPGebI[/video]


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## Bob Wright (Aug 20, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> The fellow I bought my Atlas mill from made a pulley for one of the V-belt drives on the Atlas, he sent me a photo of it while he was machining the taper of the valley for the belt...amazing.



Myfords are nice but real expensive here in the states. I make pulleys by the dozens for South Bend and Atlas owners or anyone who needs a custom one.
Here is a lathe link that has info on almost every maker...
http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.html
Here what i really like to make. Big balls. I made a ball turner and can make balls to 6" dia. Here is a 3" one...Bob


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## procarbine2k1 (Aug 20, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks. I'll check it out. I'm still saving my P&Qs. I'm better than 1/2 way to my goal of $1500. Anyone interested in a running and complete Mall 7?:biggrin:



Good deal. Im glad you are saving up for a good one. I think you will be MUCH happier in the long run, and you may just find yourself eyeball deep in a new hobby. Machining is a LOT of fun, and you wont run out of uses for it. You will find a good one pretty soon, I have seen some nice Logans under your budget up here. I will keep my ears open!


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## Reyn (Aug 20, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> Its at least a SB 16" or even an 18" but i never saw an 18" with a bell leg. But then again i have never seen in person a SBL over 16" just pics...Bob
> Some great SBL info The SBL Workshop - Home



Saw it again today. It has Southbend 16 on it. The building is a closed down post office. Has been closed for years. I don't know if an individual owns it or what. This is out in the country pretty much.

I'm gonna try and track down someone and get some info.


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## blsnelling (Aug 20, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> Good deal. Im glad you are saving up for a good one. I think you will be MUCH happier in the long run, and you may just find yourself eyeball deep in a new hobby. Machining is a LOT of fun, and you wont run out of uses for it. You will find a good one pretty soon, I have seen some nice Logans under your budget up here. *I will keep my ears open!*



I appreciate that.


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## parrisw (Aug 20, 2012)

Just upgraded my belts today on my lathe to the linked belts, was well worth it, they run much smoother!! And that is good on a lathe!!


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## srcarr52 (Aug 21, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Just upgraded my belts today on my lathe to the linked belts, was well worth it, they run much smoother!! And that is good on a lathe!!



I was thinking about doing this myself, after your report I will be doing it sooner than later. Thanks!


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## parrisw (Aug 21, 2012)

srcarr52 said:


> I was thinking about doing this myself, after your report I will be doing it sooner than later. Thanks!



Ya they work great, I got them from Harbour Freight.


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## LegDeLimber (Aug 22, 2012)

Warning... These are some very Gruesome pics.
Hope it's ok to post a link , if not, my apologies to Mods. (still getting a feel for things here)
Accident on a lathe
That site probably has lots of things that could upset some folks (think woodchiper death).
Any of you old engine lathe ops will know that phrase in the notes box on a print.
"break all sharp corners/edges"
when you see the single cut file that's in the jaw slot you'll know what set up the "accident".

Just hoping mr Snelling has someone to help get him up to speed on safe operation of his next power tool.
I've personally seen a mans fingers pinched off, wasn't pretty.
Stringy shavings can slap , slice or toss tools or just knock off an oil can.
hot shavings down a shirt or on hands & arms can cause a flinch/dance and let you run tool/saddle into chuck, or crunch feed box gears, etc


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## Stihlman441 (Aug 22, 2012)

Yes they can be a very dangerous bit of machinery,but then so is a car,i have been a machinest in a toolroom for 27 years and i have seen some very lucky and unlucky blokes caught up in machines.I remember seeing and old bloke get caught in a spindle on a large horizontal boring machine,he ended up being spat out and he only had his jocks and one shoe on and only broke one arm.:msp_scared:


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 22, 2012)

I'll say it again


Machines have NO conscience.....


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## Nitroman (Aug 22, 2012)

That was the accident that I referred too in my earlier post. If you look carefully at the chuck, you can see a file. He was filing smooth the finish on an axle when the file caught on the chuck jaw and somehow brought his jacket into play which pulled him into the lathe. At least it was quick, but he knew what was coming. Sad.

This is why many models of larger lathes have a treadle plate you stand on to run the machine, when you lift you foot a brake stops the spindle very quickly for just this sort of emergency. Better a broken arm and shoulder.......


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## parrisw (Aug 22, 2012)

These accidents are on big powerful lathes. This is why a small belt driven one is great to start, the belt will just slip, I've crashed my lathe before, and nothing happened, the belt just slipped.


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## Tzed250 (Aug 22, 2012)

True Will, but even a small lathe will lop off a finger and keep right on truckin'...


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## parrisw (Aug 22, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> True Will, but even a small lathe will lop off a finger and keep right on truckin'...



Yes they will, still have to be careful regardless.


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## Tzed250 (Aug 22, 2012)

I worked for a company that had a man killed in another division by a piece of bar stock hung out of the back of the spindle.


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2012)

I finally made a decision and bought a lathe this evening. I decided to go new and went with a Grizzly G0602 10x22. The reviews on it are great and it's a heavy weight at 453# shipping weight. It's a much better value than the G4000, at only a couple hundred more dollars. The next size up 11" models didn't get the rave reviews this one did. I also considered the Lathemaster lathes, but their 9x30 looked to be less machine in most areas. 

Yes, I'd love to have a nice heavy American made machine. But, I thought it wiser to keep it simple and start with a new machine. I won't know what I really prefer in a machine until I start using one. This lathe will do everything, and more, that I need it to do. Buying new removes a lot of variables that I don't care to deal with, or have the knowledge to, at this point.

I'm super excited to have this new tool coming. I have a hunch that I'll wonder how I ever got along without it.

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/catalog/2012/main/530.jpg

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22-Bench-Top-Metal-Lathe/G0602


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## parrisw (Aug 27, 2012)

Sweet. 

If ya can swing it get a quick change tool post. Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store is great.


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## Tzed250 (Aug 27, 2012)

That'll get the job done. 

Now you gonna be a muh chee nest!


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Sweet.
> 
> If ya can swing it get a quick change tool post. Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store is great.



I definately plan to. 

CDCO Machinery Corp. - Item # 29461.

NEW QUICK CHANGE LATHE TOOL POST SET FITS ALORIS AXA WEDGE STYLE POST + 5 HOLDER | eBay

Multifix 40 position toolholder type A for Lathe | eBay


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> That'll get the job done.
> 
> Now you gonna be a muh chee nest!



I'm doomed!


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## CWME (Aug 27, 2012)

I have the same lathe and it does what I need. Figuring out the gears for threading was an education but it does a good job. I upgraded the tool post to a quick change that Grizzly sells. It was a little pricey but well worth the $ so I could set the bits without shims. If I had to do over again I would buy it as a starter lathe.


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## Rudolf73 (Aug 27, 2012)

Thats a great lathe to start on Brad and it's a popular size, so if you want to upgrade in the future you should have no problem selling it. :msp_thumbup:


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## Tzed250 (Aug 27, 2012)

The spindle speed change might get to me.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 27, 2012)

Mill, tig, Ad nauseum. And you thought CAD was bad.


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## FATGUY (Aug 27, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> The spindle speed change might get to me.



maybe you could just say "M03 Sxxxx" while you're changing it?


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## Tzed250 (Aug 27, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> maybe you could just say "M03 Sxxxx" while you're changing it?



Darn it Nik!!!!!....


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## R DeLawter (Aug 27, 2012)

Happy for you Brad.
A nice choice and buying new is a good choice.
You are about to add to your skill level and will enjoy every hour spent on the lathe.
Good for you.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 27, 2012)

I think you'll enjoy yourself on that one.


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2012)

Shopping list.


Quick Change Tool Post
Live Center
Keyless Chuck
Magnetic Base Dial Indicator
Misc Cutting Tools

What else well I need?


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## FATGUY (Aug 27, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Shopping list.
> 
> 
> Quick Change Tool Post
> ...



time.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 27, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> time.



Exactly. Good? About 10,000 hrs.......


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## blsnelling (Aug 27, 2012)

I'll NEVER be able to do what you guys can do, but with a little coaching, I think I'll be able to massacre a piston or two soon enough


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## FATGUY (Aug 27, 2012)

I suspect it will come easily to you.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 27, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Exactly. Good? About 10,000 hrs.......



What an a$$!!! Oh that's me.......

You can get that good. But you don't need 10,000 hr good. Passion will teach you more than money teaches others.


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## LegDeLimber (Aug 27, 2012)

With enough index points, if you aren't changing the type/shape of workpiece, a turret ain't a bad setup. 
and it's a squatload easier than dealing with those old crescent (giant woodruff key??) based ones.

Good to see another person getting into (metal) chip making.

.....just wait till he's posting pics of his shavings for critique !!


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## Andyshine77 (Aug 27, 2012)

I think you did good with that lathe Brad. Let me know when it's up and running.


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## Justsaws (Aug 28, 2012)

hmmmm, first project-right angle hand piece. Very nice.


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## H 2 H (Aug 28, 2012)

Your going to love it

I started on a manual lathe late 70's and moved to CNC's in the mid 80's

Have fun :msp_wink:


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## parrisw (Aug 28, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Mill, tig, Ad nauseum. And you thought CAD was bad.



Ya tell me about it. I got a lathe, a Tig, want a mill real bad, put a bid on a Bridgeport a few month back, but never go it!! DARN IT!!



blsnelling said:


> Shopping list.
> 
> 
> Quick Change Tool Post
> ...



Buy lots of bland HSS bits to fit your tool holders, and learn how to grind bits, best way to go for that lathe and what you will be doing, carbide is nice but $$$, and I suspect that lathe doesn't have to power to take full advantage of carbide. Learn how to grind HSS properly and you'll get some really nice finishes on the material your cutting. You'll need the proper grinding wheel too, should be a white wheel.

I got one of these a few months ago. I really like it allot. 

SOUTH BEND LATHE 9 & 10 INCH Z AXIS CARRIAGE DIAL INDICATOR | eBay


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## H 2 H (Aug 28, 2012)

You would be in heaven if you had a Boeing surplus store by you :msp_biggrin:


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 28, 2012)

H 2 H said:


> You would be in heaven if you had a Boeing surplus store by you :msp_biggrin:



Wrong. He would be divorced after he melted the numbers off his credit card........


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## blsnelling (Aug 28, 2012)

Justsaws said:


> hmmmm, first project-right angle hand piece. Very nice.



Lisa actually told me to order a 182A MC this morning! She's the best!


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## Chris J. (Aug 28, 2012)

I hope the lathe works out for you, Brad. 

In a previous life I was machine operator for 3.5 years for a well-known oil field equipment company (the oil drilling bust brought that 'career' to an end), mainly a NC DeVlieg Jig Mill, only ran lathe a few times.


It took me a long time to find Brad's post on which lathe he bought (yes, sometimes I'm slow), so I'm quoting his post.




blsnelling said:


> I finally made a decision and bought a lathe this evening. I decided to go new and went with a Grizzly G0602 10x22. The reviews on it are great and it's a heavy weight at 453# shipping weight. It's a much better value than the G4000, at only a couple hundred more dollars. The next size up 11" models didn't get the rave reviews this one did. I also considered the Lathemaster lathes, but their 9x30 looked to be less machine in most areas.
> 
> Yes, I'd love to have a nice heavy American made machine. But, I thought it wiser to keep it simple and start with a new machine. I won't know what I really prefer in a machine until I start using one. This lathe will do everything, and more, that I need it to do. Buying new removes a lot of variables that I don't care to deal with, or have the knowledge to, at this point.
> 
> ...


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## srcarr52 (Aug 28, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Buy lots of bland HSS bits to fit your tool holders, and learn how to grind bits, best way to go for that lathe and what you will be doing, carbide is nice but $$$, and I suspect that lathe doesn't have to power to take full advantage of carbide. Learn how to grind HSS properly and you'll get some really nice finishes on the material your cutting. You'll need the proper grinding wheel too, should be a white wheel.
> 
> I got one of these a few months ago. I really like it allot.
> 
> SOUTH BEND LATHE 9 & 10 INCH Z AXIS CARRIAGE DIAL INDICATOR | eBay



For simplicity I think a cheap indexable carbide kit would be better. I think you'll need to stick with 3/8" tooling but you might be able to use 1/2". 
3/8" Lathe Tooling Grizzly
The almost square insert are the ones you'll use the most that insert type is probably the least expensive of all types. The inserts provided are probably for cast iron and cold roll steel. They'll make a decent cut on aluminum but you'll probably want to get some CCGT inserts for finish cuts on aluminum and something TIN coated in CCMT for harder stuff. I think those inserts would be the 21.5 size. The only thing you'll need to add are a few boring bars and many quick change tool holders of which the import AXA style holders are cheap. I usually get all #2 style since they can do everything of the #1 (besides hold small tooling) plus hold small boring bars.
Cheap AXA #1 and #2 holders

A dial indicators for the carriage is a must for doing pop-ups or cutting squish bands. I have a mighty mag base with a 2" dial indicator that lives on the lathe for carriage indication. 



blsnelling said:


> Lisa actually told me to order a 182A MC this morning! She's the best!



Congrats, you'll like that handpiece. While your on the phone with them ordering that I would pick up one of their carbides (sharpest carbide I've ever owned) and a diamond impregnated point. I have a shape D 1/8" shaft and surprisingly it doesn't clog with aluminum, it leaves a great finish inside transfer ports with the 182A and can help shape the left side of ports (heavy chatter with RH burs) because you can turn it backwards.


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## parrisw (Aug 28, 2012)

HSS I think is the better way to go. Carbide is expensive, and if you make a mistake its easy to chip the cutter. With HSS you just resharpen. I started with a simple carbide set with replaceable ends, I still have them but not cutters left, I now just use HSS, though I have some cutters with brazed on carbide tips.


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## vincem77 (Aug 29, 2012)

Get a 6" steel rule. One of my most used tools as a machinist. Gives you a quick rough measurement for things like checking if the tool sticking out long enough for a bore. HF has them for $2-$3 or so.


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## Graham99 (Aug 29, 2012)

Hi Brad

Congratlations on the purchase, you will enjoy it. As mentioned above, HSS will be the way to go for you, and will make a better finish on aluminium than you will achieve with tungsten carbide. The 6" rule is also helpful, you can even use it to check centre height by standing it vertically and then pushing the tool up against it gently. If the ruler is then vertical, you are on centre height.

Although I am a Plastics Engineer, I have used a lathe fairly often over the last 20 years. I dont have one at home yet, but once the workshop is set up, I will get one.

Regards
Graham


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## Stihlman441 (Aug 29, 2012)

To get the best finish on Aluminium you need a industral diamond tipped tool.CRC helps as well.


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## Jim Timber (Aug 29, 2012)

To get the best finish on aluminum, you need a large nose radius and copious lube...

Take the time now to make a jig to help you center your tool height to the center of the spindle axis. I never did, and to this day I wish I would just take the time to make one.

You'll also want a drill chuck for your tail stock, and a live center if you want to turn long stuff. The dead center will burn up if you don't have enough grease or you try turning with it too fast (over about 300rpm has been the melting/galling point for when I've done it). I'm somewhat surprised they even included it - the only place I'd use one is in the headstock with a faceplate and dog. I have used them for offset (taper) turning with a boring head in the tail stock, but I wouldn't do that again if I could avoid it.


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## Stihl 041S (Aug 29, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> To get the best finish on Aluminium you need a industral diamond tipped tool.CRC helps as well.



A Moore Drum Lathe for the best finish....

Neither is needed. Scotchbrite is enough.


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## LegDeLimber (Aug 29, 2012)

Can we try 2 cycle oil for cutting lube and see how that discussion runs ? 
sub cats for, internal or external application, (Maybe chain oil for ext, less sling off!)
Tapping and drilling, reaming or boring and the biggie ... single point threading.
carbon buildup on the chip breaker or clamp screw hole.
Scoring of the ways....

sorry fellows, should be sleeping and feeling a bit goofy from it.

in truth, really would like to see how it does for threading alum.


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## Graham99 (Aug 29, 2012)

Should be fine for threading aluminium. CRC/WD40 will help for surface finish. For thread cutting I hope the lowest gear is really low, as the best way with that machine is to not disengage the leadscrew.

I used to bore blow moulds using a faceplate, with an angle plate bolted to it, so was able to accurately set the centre of the tooling. We used to send out some blowmoulds for boring externally, and they always came back off centre. The ones I did were always on the money.

Graham


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## Jim Timber (Aug 29, 2012)

Moly D is the best thread cutting lube I've ever used. Bacon grease works good too (smells yummy is a bonus!), as does WD40 and Kerosene on aluminum specifically (I wouldn't use them on steel).

Sulphurized lubes will stain aluminum and some others will too (I forget if it's ammonia or some other chemical they use) - not really a concern for pistons and cylinder quench bands, but something to be aware of if doing other jobs.

Bar oil would be a bad metal cutting lubricant. You don't want it holding chips to the work.


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## LegDeLimber (Aug 29, 2012)

nothing like that old "machinist cologne" dark brown, sulfered cutting oil.
get an acid brush for a stringer to snag (fun drilling &tapping on the radial drill, dance lesson for free)
and your choice of Vienna sausage, peanuts, soup or cut off soda can to hold it.

Then there would be that miraculous water based, anti freeze looking stuff 
that some salesman would talk the "office" into trying...
after a couple of days of it in the spray-mister, the paint is bubbling off the the column of mill,
couple of DRO's are intermittent and your fingernails are burning.
Yeah, we all balked at that one.


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## parrisw (Aug 29, 2012)

I use WD40 for lube for aluminum works well, and is cheap and easy to get. I've also found that all this talk about aluminum finish, I can achieve the best results with HSS, however I've also found that pistons and cylinders machine differently then your regular run of the mill aluminum stock.

For centering tools I have one of these.







you can also just leave your live center in the tail stock and use that point as a height gauge.


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## srcarr52 (Aug 29, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> To get the best finish on aluminum, you need a large nose radius and copious lube...



The CCGT inserts like this CCGT 32.52 with a large radius nose work really well without lube and at fairly high MRR. The large upturned rake likes to be slightly above the part center line and it will leave a nice finish. Also there is no need for having another insert for roughing as I normally take .06-.08" on aluminum roughing cuts at high feed rates with these inserts and I haven't burned or chipped one yet. They leave a great finish on mild steel and cast as well.


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## CWME (Aug 29, 2012)

The first thing you are going to need before tooling etc is a couple strong friends to help you set the machine in place. I would also pay for the lift gate delivery. YMMV

I had to go to the UPS terminal because I was too cheap to pay for the liftgate. The only issue is that they have no ramp or forklift to help you load stuff at the terminal here. Had to back up to the load dock for an 18 wheeler and slide it down 3' on a sheet of plywood with some 2X4's under that for support, sketchy at best. I will save you the story of how I got it into the shop and on the bench by myself


Once you get it set a cheap natural bristle paint brush has been a big help to me for wiping away chips on the work, bits, etc. If you don't have a grinder you will need one, Sears normally has some pretty good sales going. You will also need some serious degreaser. The cosmoline on these things is a real pita. 

You will forget at some point but make it a habit to ALWAYS check that the chuck wrench has been removed from the chuck before mashing the green button. :msp_scared:


----------



## jh35 (Aug 29, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> ... Bacon grease works good too (smells yummy is a bonus!), as does WD40 and Kerosene on aluminum specifically (I wouldn't use them on steel).
> 
> Sulphurized lubes will stain aluminum and some others will too (I forget if it's ammonia or some other chemical they use) - not really a concern for pistons and cylinder quench bands, but something to be aware of if doing other jobs.
> 
> .....



Now i'm glad to see that you will be getting the machining bug...

We use lard at the shop on jobs where coolant would be too messy but you still can't run it dry. If you don't get carried away it doesn't smell too bad. Often makes me think "pig roast!"


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 29, 2012)

CWME said:


> The first thing you are going to need before tooling etc is a couple strong friends to help you set the machine in place.



What time will you be here? I'll see if I can get a couple more friends to drop by. Maybe, Matt from AU...Nikko from Europe....:biggin:

One of my buds here has a care package going together for me!
Scales
Centers 
Drill chuck
Lathe tools
Indicators


----------



## CWME (Aug 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> What time will you be here? I'll see if I can get a couple more friends to drop by. Maybe, Matt from AU...Nikko from Europe....:biggin:
> 
> One of my buds here has a care package going together for me!
> Scales
> ...



Be worth the trip if you massaged my MS460 a little in trade


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 29, 2012)

Help me decide on a QCTP. I don't really know the difference, but understand that a wedge type is better than a piston type.

Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store: Quick Change Tool Post Sets - Wedge Type,Quick Change Tool Posts and Holders

CDCO Machinery Corp. - Item # 29461. Piston or wedge?


----------



## srcarr52 (Aug 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Help me decide on a QCTP. I don't really know the difference, but understand that a wedge type is better than a piston type.
> 
> Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store: Quick Change Tool Post Sets - Wedge Type,Quick Change Tool Posts and Holders
> 
> CDCO Machinery Corp. - Item # 29461. Piston or wedge?



The wedge is better for repeating work when you are dropping in different tools and you don't want to have to touch off or zero again. You can drop the tool holder in and the tool will be withing a few 0.001" of where it was last. With the piston style it won't be as close. Some say the wedge is more sturdy but in the AXA (100) size you won't be having an issue with that. Also the cheap import wedge toolposts can be a bit loose and poorly machined inside, they seem to do better on the piston style.

I have a wedge style toolpost and in 2 years I've only needed it's drop in accuracy once when I was making multiple of the same part that had a loose enough tolerance that I could get away with switching tools without touching off again.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 29, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Help me decide on a QCTP. I don't really know the difference, but understand that a wedge type is better than a piston type.
> 
> Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store: Quick Change Tool Post Sets - Wedge Type,Quick Change Tool Posts and Holders
> 
> CDCO Machinery Corp. - Item # 29461. Piston or wedge?



The Multiflx is the bees knees. REAL flexible, 40 instead of 4 positions. And a LOT of purchase on the holder when locked.


----------



## parrisw (Aug 29, 2012)

I have the wedge type from tools for cheap, I'm real happy with it.


----------



## firmwood (Aug 29, 2012)

This thread exploded....!!!


----------



## Nitroman (Aug 29, 2012)

Here's what mine looks like, but in much better condition. Load four tools and with the flip of that handle, they switch positions.


----------



## sun64 (Aug 29, 2012)

Heres my 2 cents worth Brad. 
Like I have said before I am not a machinist but over the years I have machined wheel hubs, pulleys ,pins , shafts ete etc for myself. I have worked in mining and now for the last 18 years on oil rigs. I am a metal fabricator / welder by trade and have dial clocked in tail shafts and gear etc etc for work as I am in the maintenance department. I am no expert though.
Personall for what you will be doing with that small lathe, your tool post will accomodate 4 turning bits. It will be fine without spending the extra money at this time.
I have used the quick changes before but the old lathe on this rig is exactly like yours, but a lot larger.
You are not going into producing multiple parts and with most of your saws, each one will be a different saw and probably a different set up from the previous saw.

Getting the tip close to centre if fine for most of what you will do.
Machining jugs , squish band pistons etc, it could be 20, 30 thou out off centre and it wont make any difference. 
Even with the piston, the little bit left in the centre can be filed / ground off when machining a pop top as the piston is not a rolling / rotating part, just up and down movement and I can hardly see that ammount making it vibrate. 
You are not making gearbox parts etc.
Like I said in my earlier post , dial indicators are a must. I would spend your money on decent indicators before quick change posts in my opinion.
Brad, I could tell you to buy the best pulse mig, press, mag base rotor broach drill etc but most people can get away with a lot less.
If you had a decent lathe with a nice throw, then yeah, spend some more coin.
At home I have a chinese lathe , 3 ft between centres and my 3 phase drill press I have adapted for milling with a milling carridge , milling vice etc, which is fine for home use.
Just get what you basically need at this stage and then evaluate later.
All the best with it
Wayne


----------



## splitpost (Aug 29, 2012)

*shim steel*



sun64 said:


> Getting the tip close to centre if fine for most of what you will do.
> Machining jugs , squish band pistons etc, it could be 20, 30 thou out off centre and it wont make any difference.
> Even with the piston, the little bit left in the centre can be filed / ground off when machining a pop top as the piston is not a rolling / rotating part, just up and down movement and I can hardly see that ammount making it vibrate.



hey wayne, just shim the tool holder in the tool post ,problem fixed


----------



## sun64 (Aug 29, 2012)

splitpost said:


> hey wayne, just shim the tool holder in the tool post ,problem fixed



Yes, I do that. But what I was getting at , is for machining the base on a jug etc, the tool piece it does'nt have to be EXACTLY spot on centre.
Of course get them centred but it is not so critical on a jugs base etc , that was what I was trying to convey.
There was posts about a quick change post that would be within 1 thou when re installing them back on to the tool post.
Regards Wayne


----------



## splitpost (Aug 29, 2012)

sun64 said:


> Yes, I do that. But what I was getting at , is for machining the base on a jug etc, the tool piece it does'nt have to be EXACTLY spot on centre.
> Of course get them centred but it is not so critical on a jugs base etc , that was what I was trying to convey.
> There was posts about a quick change post that would be within 1 thou when re installing them back on to the tool post.
> Regards Wayne



gottya mate,no worries


----------



## sun64 (Aug 29, 2012)

splitpost said:


> gottya mate,no worries



Cheers mate. I probably waffle on too much LOL People probably get confused with my posts.
It just seamed to me everyone wanted Brad to buy the latest and greatest for a small, cheap lathe.
To me , some of it was really not warranted spending the coin on at this stage except for a good dial indicator and turning bars etc 
My lathe came with face plates , 3 , 4 jaw chucks, live centres fixed and travelling steadys etc which are all important.
Also depends on what you are going to use the lathe for mostly as to what you will need.
Mine has the same type tool post as Brads which will be fine for what I need at home.
Stay safe
Wayne :msp_thumbup:


----------



## Tzed250 (Aug 29, 2012)

I totally agree about the QCTP. I went all the way through tech school turning parts inside of .001" with a 4-way turret. RH-LH OD tools, parting tool, chamfer/threading tool. Even the tool room lathe we have at work has a 4-way and it is a $20K machine. QC is for production work.


----------



## srcarr52 (Aug 29, 2012)

sun64 said:


> Yes, I do that. But what I was getting at , is for machining the base on a jug etc, the tool piece it does'nt have to be EXACTLY spot on centre.
> Of course get them centred but it is not so critical on a jugs base etc , that was what I was trying to convey.
> There was posts about a quick change post that would be within 1 thou when re installing them back on to the tool post.
> Regards Wayne



The wedge style is designed to drop the tool back in within a few thou in the x and y directions, the height is not as critical and will probably be within 10 thou. That accuracy is only needed for production work, but the convenience of a QCTP provides maximum flexibility with minimum tool change time. So if you are not doing production work a piston style is fine and you'll be glad you bought it over a turn table.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 29, 2012)

I loved the multifix I liked when always changing tools OR production. 

The Swiss were good to a tenth. I didn't believe it either. My DRO split a tenth. They were the best.


----------



## Bob Wright (Aug 29, 2012)

parrisw said:


> you can also just leave your live center in the tail stock and use that point as a height gauge.



Once you get the bit on center poke your quill out of the tailstock and scribe a line with the now centered tool bit then you will always have a mark to judge the center by.


And buy this book. 2nd pic. I had 2 of them and loaned both out now i have none...Bob


----------



## sun64 (Aug 29, 2012)

srcarr52 said:


> The wedge style is designed to drop the tool back in within a few thou in the x and y directions, the height is not as critical and will probably be within 10 thou. That accuracy is only needed for production work, but the convenience of a QCTP provides maximum flexibility with minimum tool change time. So if you are not doing production work a piston style is fine and you'll be glad you bought it over a turn table.



I do agree with you completely ,and that they are nice to have but whether Brad will get the true benifit from them compared to what he will be doing with his lathe, and how how much he is willing to spend. If I recall correctly he wanted a low budget machine 
Great posts though
Cheers Wayne


----------



## sun64 (Aug 29, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> Once you get the bit on center poke your quill out of the tailstock and scribe a line with the now centered tool bit then you will always have a mark to judge the center by.
> 
> 
> And buy this book. 2nd pic. I had 2 of them and loaned both out now i have none...Bob



Thanks for the tip Bob, never really thought of that ( permantly marking the centre height )
And aint that a fact Bob , lending out gear never to be seen again !!!
I have had mates swear black and blue they have returned it and then you see it at their place years later after you have gone and replaced it.
Cheers Wayne


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 29, 2012)

Hardinge L-2A

Best tool height gauge EVER!!


----------



## srcarr52 (Aug 29, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> Once you get the bit on center poke your quill out of the tailstock and scribe a line with the now centered tool bit then you will always have a mark to judge the center by.



I am so doing this the next time I'm in front of my lathe.


----------



## dozerdan (Aug 30, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> My decision is made. Barring an exceptional deal coming along, I'm holding out for a Hardinge. Now, to find the right one and save my PS & Qs. My lathe fund got set back by the purchase of a new Foredom.



Brad 

What happened with the holding out for the Hardinge ?

Later
Dan


----------



## dozerdan (Aug 30, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Why buy what you don't need?
> 
> What is he going to use power feed for on P&C?
> 
> ...



I use the power feed all of the time when I cut a cylinder base.

Later
Dan


----------



## dozerdan (Aug 30, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Shopping list.
> 
> 
> Quick Change Tool Post
> ...




Brad
I will send you a few cutting tools, I have extra brazed carbide if left, right hand, threading. I will send a few HSS blanks in 3/8 and a few in 1/2. I will grind a new 3/8 blank for you to cut the base of the cylinders with and another one to cut the pistons with. I also have a new AXA tool holder that came in a lot of BXA holder that I bought.
I will have to look around and see what else that I can find for you.
You will need to add few center drills to your list but I don't have any extra right now.
PM me an address

Later
Dan


----------



## Nitroman (Aug 30, 2012)

Okay, in the spirit of all things AS, I have decided to give up my connect for everything machinery related. They have *everything*, and yes, they'll ship anywhere too.

PLAZA MACHINERY,USED MACHINERY, METALWORKING MACHINERY, WOODWORKING MACHINERY

Click on the word doc for "metalworking", and you'll see what they have in stock. But it will be everything. Oh, Brad, several small mills for sale on eBay. The Burke mills are well priced.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 30, 2012)

dozerdan said:


> Brad
> 
> What happened with the holding out for the Hardinge ?
> 
> ...


I was fearful of buying a machine with hidden issues that I don't yet know enough about to notice or fix. If the opportunity arises, I can always upgrade. This just seemed like the wisest and most simple solution right now.



dozerdan said:


> Brad
> I will send you a few cutting tools, I have extra brazed carbide if left, right hand, threading. I will send a few HSS blanks in 3/8 and a few in 1/2. I will grind a new 3/8 blank for you to cut the base of the cylinders with and another one to cut the pistons with. I also have a new AXA tool holder that came in a lot of BXA holder that I bought.
> I will have to look around and see what else that I can find for you.
> You will need to add few center drills to your list but I don't have any extra right now.
> ...


That's mighty generous of you and will be very helpful since you know exactly how I'll be using it. PM coming. Thanks again!


----------



## parrisw (Aug 30, 2012)

dozerdan said:


> I use the power feed all of the time when I cut a cylinder base.
> 
> Later
> Dan



So do I. I like getting the best finish I can on any part I machine.


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Aug 30, 2012)

Power feed is for rookies!


----------



## brokenbudget (Aug 30, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Power feed is for rookies!



and people with unsteady hands:msp_sleep:


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 30, 2012)

dozerdan said:


> I use the power feed all of the time when I cut a cylinder base.
> 
> Later
> Dan



I meant that statement when he was looking at the Hardinge. 

The only reason I would trade off power feed. 

Hardinge level lathes have their own set of rules. LOL

Brad is already looking for his next lathe.......


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 30, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Brad is already looking for his next lathe.......



Interpreted, Rob would like to see Brad have a real piece of American iron, it's watching for a fantastic deal, and Brad would be happy to oblige


----------



## FATGUY (Aug 30, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Power feed is for rookies!



lippin' off again, eh buffoon?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 30, 2012)




----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 30, 2012)

blsnelling said:


>



Right now you couldn't knock the smile off Brad's face with a shovel!!!


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 30, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Right now you couldn't knock the smile off Brad's face with a shovel!!!



But you could with a Hardinge lathe


----------



## dozerdan (Aug 30, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Power feed is for rookies!



I guess I am a rookie, I only started running lathes in the late 60's.

If I had my choice of me working or watching a machine do the work for me I will choose the machine every time.

Later
Dan


----------



## parrisw (Aug 30, 2012)

dozerdan said:


> I guess I am a rookie, I only started running lathes in the late 60's.
> 
> If I had my choice of me working or watching a machine do the work for me I will choose the machine every time.
> 
> ...



I am a rookie, and would still rather have the lathe do the work.


----------



## vincem77 (Aug 30, 2012)

The little I use manual machines, I tend to rough out cranking the handles. Then do the finish passes using power feed. If you know the tool/material limits well you can remove alot of material quickly manually feeding.


----------



## Bob Wright (Aug 30, 2012)

vincem77 said:


> If you know the tool/material limits well you can remove alot of material quickly manually feeding.



And by increasing the rate of feed with a power feed machine. I use PF 99% of the time unless i am using the compound. I can't stand anymore burns on my hands turning the handwheels if i don't need to...Bob


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 30, 2012)

Heck guys......PF is the only way to go sometimes. 

Try hand feeding a 4" drill. 

First, you can't. Second, try handfeeding for an hour cut. LOL


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 30, 2012)

All depends what you are cutting. 

Cutting carbide hand feed is used most often.

Either you won't get a Curley Chip or if fine work to save the diamond, so you hand feed.


----------



## Tzed250 (Aug 30, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Power feed is for rookies!



I guess Computer Numerically Controlled feed is for dunces then.


----------



## Bob Wright (Aug 30, 2012)

I do lots of small milling with my lathe. I don't use a milling attachment. I have a home made toolpost with big slots that i can clamp the part into say for cutting a keyway in a small shaft. I shim the tool post so that the part is on center and use a steel rule to check the height. 2nd pic. If the part is too high or low the steel rule will lean and not be plumb straight up and down. The collet chuck as well as the tool post were made by me after some thought as what i would need. I had lots of midnight shifts at work just thinking of stuff to make. The last pic is a cross slide hole driller that uses a hand drill and is mounted in a steel block on the lathe centerline. I can drill holes straight in like 90 degrees to the work or on an angle like the pic. This part is a shotgun barrell for my dad that needs a gas port drilled in it. It was off a Rem 870 and now fits an 1100 because of the hole. His buddy was drilling them in a milling machine with lots of trouble and broken bits. I had no problems and no broken bits doing it my way. I have 1000's of how to do it pics that i can show off  since i have been doing this for 37 years or so. Enjoy...Bob


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 30, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> I guess Computer Numerically Controlled feed is for dunces then.



Them things will never catch on......

Like pneumatic nailers......


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 30, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Them things will never catch on......
> 
> Like pneumatic nailers......



I wouldn't have a dunce either:msp_wink:


----------



## Tzed250 (Aug 30, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Them things will never catch on......
> 
> Like pneumatic nailers......



Bologna machine tool ???


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 30, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Bologna machine tool ???



Remember before CNC when you wanted a big radius on a lathe?

First time you make a 4" radius with power AND hand feed makes you sweat the first time. LOL. 

60HP of screwup power!!!!!


----------



## hoeyrd2110 (Aug 31, 2012)

I have a little grizzly but hasn't seen much use. Randy you said you put a new chuck on yours to do this type of work. What one would you guys suggest and where to get em


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 31, 2012)

OK, I have a lathe now. What do I do with it, lol. I didn't take any pics of the crate and before I took everything off that I easily could. It should now be manageable to get into the basement. I'm guessing it should be down close to 300-325#.


----------



## Tzed250 (Aug 31, 2012)

If you get the headstock I'll get the tail..


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 31, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> If you get the headstock I'll get the tail..



Which end's the headstock, lol JK


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 31, 2012)

Lay a sheet of plywood on the stairs and slide it down. Rope on a windless.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 31, 2012)

I was expecting this thing to be covered with thick, paste like cosmoline. The stuff on this thing was more like thick oil. It wiped off easily. Also, in most every review I read on this lathe, the pallet was nearly destroyed. Fortunately, mine looks like it's still setting on the factory floor. So far, I've found nothing wrong.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Aug 31, 2012)

I took a machinist class in trade school for two years. I used to love to run the lathes. I wish I would have stuck with it and tried to get a job doing it. Oh well, another career shot all to [email protected] by the farm.


----------



## nmurph (Aug 31, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> I took a machinist class in trade school for two years. I used to love to run the lathes. I wish I would have stuck with it and tried to get a job doing it. Oh well, another career shot all to [email protected] by the farm.



I wish I were farming for a living!


----------



## Tzed250 (Aug 31, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> I took a machinist class in trade school for two years. I used to love to run the lathes. I wish I would have stuck with it and tried to get a job doing it. Oh well, another career shot all to [email protected] by the farm.



US farms and farmers make sure we have great food to eat, made right here at home!!!


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Aug 31, 2012)

I still would like to get me a good lathe one day. Theres been so many times I've had to pay a small fortune for a part that I could have made from a $2 peice of steel.  Just last week I paid 35 bucks for a belt separator for my ray roller. It's pretty much a round peice of steel with two flat sides about 2" up and two bolt holes in the rear. I could have made it in 5 minutes. :mad2:


----------



## Jim Timber (Aug 31, 2012)

What a cute little lathe. 

Get some WAY oil. That thick stuff you wiped off was probably it. Do not use 30wt, used engine oil, gear lube - get the right stuff, and use it. Dry ways are bad, but you also don't want it bathed in the stuff either. There should be a few ports on the carriage to lube up. With light use, you probably won't need to do it more than a couple times a month, but keep an eye on the ways to make sure they always have oil.

Also, if you do any grinding, sanding, polishing - anything at all that has abrasives: cover your bed! Those little abrasive particles get caught up in the heavy way oil and end up sanding your ways. I just throw some news paper down and toss it when I'm done. Some guys use rags, but those make me nervous about getting caught up in the lead screw.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 31, 2012)

How about non-detergent 30W in the gearcase for break-in oil?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 31, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> How about non-detergent 30W in the gearcase for break-in oil?



That is what was used in mine. Gamet bearings.....


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 31, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> Get some WAY oil.



Can this oil be bought locally? If not, where's a good place to order it?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 31, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Can this oil be bought locally? If not, where's a good place to order it?



Comes in the care package. LOL


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 31, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Comes in the care package. LOL



Care packages are good


----------



## LegDeLimber (Aug 31, 2012)

always keep the tailstock hole, plugged (dead center is handy, and least in your way) 
and Always double check it for *any* chips or debris
before popping in the next drill bit, center, chuck etc.
Anything gets pressed in there craters up a lump and then tools won't hold, like the flywheel taper cleanliness issue.
drills spinning will grab and bend, twist workpieces out of the chuck (damage to work then)
keep your quill retracted when it's not in use helps with keeping that part clean.

Always clean the ways before moving the tailstock, chips or dirt crunched under the t'stock 
makes a lump that lifts the saddle,as it pass over and makes lumps or grooves in the work.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 31, 2012)

LegDeLimber said:


> always keep the tailstock hole, plugged (dead center is handy, and least in your way)
> and Always double check it for *any* chips or debris
> before popping in the next drill bit, center, chuck etc.
> Anything gets pressed in there craters up a lump and then tools won't hold, like the flywheel taper cleanliness issue.
> ...




Good points. I wonder if you could float the tailstock like on a Hardinge? Na. Ways not big enough. Too bad.


----------



## stihl038x2 (Aug 31, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> That is what was used in mine. Gamet bearings.....



HMMMMM......... Colchester, I presume 

Steve


----------



## Rudolf73 (Aug 31, 2012)

Is it running yet Brad?!

I love setting up new toys, especially new new ones :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Stihl 041S (Aug 31, 2012)

stihl038x2 said:


> HMMMMM......... Colchester, I presume
> 
> Steve



Good guess. It is a short list. LOL

Graziano. Bought out now by Maho-Deckel I think.


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 1, 2012)

Actually, it is not a good idea to keep a center in the tail stock when it is idle. The center is capable of some nasty puncture wounds if you forget it is there and withdraw work from the chuck and ram your elbow or forearm/wrist into it. I've seen it happen more than once. When I am turning without the tail stock I like to keep a Jacobs chuck in the quill with the jaws retracted. Minimal damage to my person if I wack the front of the chuck with my elbow. The smaller the lathe, the more important this tip becomes.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Actually, it is not a good idea to keep a center in the tail stock when it is idle. The center is capable of some nasty puncture wounds if you forget it is there and withdraw work from the chuck and ram your elbow or forearm/wrist into it. I've seen it happen more than once. When I am turning without the tail stock I like to keep a Jacobs chuck in the quill with the jaws retracted. Minimal damage to my person if I wack the front of the chuck with my elbow. The smaller the lathe, the more important this tip becomes.



I usually use a center drill to stab myself.......

And leave a chuck key in the chuck. I lose the darn things all the time.


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> I usually use a center drill to stab myself.......
> 
> And leave a chuck key in the chuck. I lose the darn things all the time.



The Cdrill in the tail stock is a classic!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> The Cdrill in the tail stock is a classic!



Still a requirement for a Journeyman's Card?


----------



## Nitroman (Sep 1, 2012)

Is it set up and making chips yet?


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Still a requirement for a Journeyman's Card?



Yes, and also the deep finger cut from pulling on a long stringer..


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 1, 2012)

I guess pretty soon Brad will be able to play the "worst place I got a hot chip" game...


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 1, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I guess pretty soon Brad will be able to play the "worst place I got a hot chip" game...



You haven't lived until you get one stuck to your lip, go to spit it off, and it sticks to your tongue.


----------



## Nitroman (Sep 1, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> You haven't lived until you get one stuck to your lip, go to spit it off, and it sticks to your tongue.



Does it compare to a 10mm shell casing fresh from the Glock Mod. 20 chamber dropping out of the sky to stick to your eyelid behind your glasses?


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 1, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Does it compare to a 10mm shell casing fresh from the Glock Mod. 20 chamber dropping out of the sky to stick to your eyelid behind your glasses?



Yes, they are comparable, along with .308WIN brass from an M1A stuck between the collar of your shooting coat and your neck.


----------



## dozerdan (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Still a requirement for a Journeyman's Card?



I guess that I qualify for a few of those cards. LOL

Later
Dan


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 1, 2012)

The battle scars stories are hillarious, as long as it's someone else


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 1, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Is it set up and making chips yet?



No, but it is in the basement! That's a MAJOR accomplishment. I was a little worried about it, but it wasn't bad at all with three guys. Now I've got to prep the stand for it.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 1, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> You haven't lived until you get one *stuck to your lip, *go to spit it off, and it sticks to your tongue.



For those of you who don't do this everyday, you can't make stuff like that up. I got a good one off a face mill cutting 8620 about a month ago. Nice thick chip (0.007" IPT, 0.100" DOC) right up to the nose. Came home with one nostril looking like Rudolf's. Honorable mention goes to getting it in the ear and hearing it sizzle...


----------



## Metals406 (Sep 1, 2012)

Those who weld have good burn stories, just like you guys machining.

Up the nose, in the ear, the eye, burn through a shoe between your big toe.

My all time favorite is a good hot bugger burning through your pants and planting itself in your groin.


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 1, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> For those of you who don't do this everyday, you can't make stuff like that up. I got a good one off a face mill cutting 8620 about a month ago. Nice thick chip (0.007" IPT, 0.100" DOC) right up to the nose. Came home with one nostril looking like Rudolf's. Honorable mention goes to getting it in the ear and hearing it sizzle...



The old face mill will wear you out. One job I cut runs a 5" mill at 260rpm with an .011 FPT. It sounds like hail hitting the way covers. I get the hell out of the AO running that part. 

BTW Nik, the Rudolph comment about made me spit my drink out!



Metals406 said:


> Those who weld have good burn stories, just like you guys machining.
> 
> Up the nose, in the ear, the eye, burn through a shoe between your big toe.
> 
> My all time favorite is a good hot bugger burning through your pants and planting itself in your groin.



I weld a bit. My favorite is the slag that falls on the cuff of your pants, burns through and drops into your boot. As it burns it's way through your sock and into your skin you know it's no good to get in any kind of hurry because your blood will have it cooled off by the time you get to it.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> For those of you who don't do this everyday, you can't make stuff like that up. I got a good one off a face mill cutting 8620 about a month ago. Nice thick chip (0.007" IPT, 0.100" DOC) right up to the nose. Came home with one nostril looking like Rudolf's. Honorable mention goes to getting it in the ear and hearing it sizzle...



Little wet spot in the corner of your eye by the nose. 
Yippee I'm not blind!!!! LOL

Aluminum when the chip sticks. 

And the all time favorite. Chips hitting your arm/any body part when you are cutting to a face on a finishing cut and can't pull back till you finish the cut. 

Or like looking at clouds, looking at your new brand and wondering what it looks like.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Does it compare to a 10mm shell casing fresh from the Glock Mod. 20 chamber dropping out of the sky to stick to your eyelid behind your glasses?



Another reason one girlfriend likes the Browning High Power. Beretta is top eject. With a v neck.........let's say 2 burns at once and the case couldn't fall out.


----------



## Bob Wright (Sep 1, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Those who weld have good burn stories, just like you guys machining.
> 
> Up the nose, in the ear, the eye, burn through a shoe between your big toe.
> 
> My all time favorite is a good hot bugger burning through your pants and planting itself in your groin.



Yup got a few of them yesterday. Chipping .045 gas flux core and one jumped down my shirt, so i pulled out my shirt bottom and it went right in my underwear. I should have kept my big belly for protection  The other one went right in my shoe top and burned right thru my sock and into my heel where its going to get rubbed raw for weeks. Here is what i was welding...Bob


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> Yup got a few of them yesterday. Chipping .045 gas flux core and one jumped down my shirt, so i pulled out my shirt bottom and it went right in my underwear. I should have kept my big belly for protection  The other one went right in my shoe top and burned right thru my sock and into my heel where its going to get rubbed raw for weeks. Here is what i was welding...Bob




What you make there ????


----------



## Trx250r180 (Sep 1, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> Yup got a few of them yesterday. Chipping .045 gas flux core and one jumped down my shirt, so i pulled out my shirt bottom and it went right in my underwear. I should have kept my big belly for protection  The other one went right in my shoe top and burned right thru my sock and into my heel where its going to get rubbed raw for weeks. Here is what i was welding...Bob



now thats gonna be real fun getting into Brads basement 


nice job


----------



## Metals406 (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> What you make there ????



Those are the legs to Brad's lathe cabinet.


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## Metals406 (Sep 1, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> Yup got a few of them yesterday. Chipping .045 gas flux core and one jumped down my shirt, so i pulled out my shirt bottom and it went right in my underwear. I should have kept my big belly for protection  The other one went right in my shoe top and burned right thru my sock and into my heel where its going to get rubbed raw for weeks. Here is what i was welding...Bob



I love pushing .045" and 1/16" dual shield! It flows nice and creamy.

I was under a 2-ton truck holding a tool box, and Rod was welding the retaining straps on the underside of the flatbed. I was sitting on my butt with my legs extended. A nice hot nugget of hardwire danced across the concrete and wedged between the floor and my inner thigh.

As I squeeled in pain, essentially dragging by butt back and forth like a dog on a carpet, all Rod could say was, "Don't move, I almost got it!" :msp_sneaky:

Are those a pressure vessel? Real surprised they spec'd out grinding the welds on those bungs?


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## Bob Wright (Sep 1, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Are those a pressure vessel? Real surprised they spec'd out grinding the welds on those bungs?



These aren't. They are just expansion tanks for the radiators of 6,000 hp Cat natural gas engines. But i do weld pressure vessels like this one. Its only tested to 1500 psi. Its a bad pic of me taken from a vid shoot with CNBC about the natural gas boom they did at our company a while back. I felt pretty good being only a handfull of people that work here and i was one of the new guys. Now i am always in the pictures.
Shaking Off The Rust Belt - U.S. Business News - CNBC ...Bob


----------



## Bob Wright (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> What you make there ????



The company makes natural gas compressor pumping station pump setups. Some with 3,000-6,000 + hp engines both gas and electric. Shaking Off The Rust Belt - U.S. Business News - CNBC ...Bob


----------



## edisto (Sep 1, 2012)

Some of us don't have the patience to wait for misfortune.

I earned a runner up Darwin award welding bars into my basement window late one night/early one morning. I didn't want to let go of the bar with my left hand to get a new rod, so I held the rod in my teeth.


----------



## Mastermind (Sep 1, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Those who weld have good burn stories, just like you guys machining.
> 
> Up the nose, in the ear, the eye, burn through a shoe between your big toe.
> 
> My all time favorite is a good hot bugger burning through your pants and planting itself in your groin.



When you work for a General Contractor you end up doing lots of stuff on the fly, unprepared, without proper safety gear just to keep the job rolling.....

I was sitting on the top of a 12' step ladder welding a brace from a loading door frame up to the bar joist, with the stinger over my head, when a big ball of slag landed in my lap, burned through my pants and settled down to fry it's way into my sack........how I kept from falling off the ladder I'll never know. :msp_sad:


----------



## Metals406 (Sep 1, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> When you work for a General Contractor you end up doing lots of stuff on the fly, unprepared, without proper safety gear just to keep the job rolling.....
> 
> I was sitting on the top of a 12' step ladder welding a brace from a loading door frame up to the bar joist, with the stinger over my head, when a big ball of slag landed in my lap, burned through my pants and settled down to fry it's way into my sack........how I kept from falling off the ladder I'll never know. :msp_sad:



:msp_sad::msp_sad:

The ball-sac force is strong in this one. 

It's not funny when it happens, but it is once the hole in yer skin fills over. :msp_wink:


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 1, 2012)

The lathe has better than an hour run time on it, now that the break-in process is complete. 2400 RPMs is scary to someone not used to running a lathe! It got ran at each speed for about 10 minutes. It's ready to make chips, but I have no tooling lol


----------



## parrisw (Sep 1, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The lathe has better than an hour run time on it, now that the break-in process is complete. 2400 RPMs is scary to someone not used to running a lathe! It got ran at each speed for about 10 minutes. It's ready to make chips, but I have no tooling lol



What are you waiting for then, order some!


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 1, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The lathe has better than an hour run time on it, now that the break-in process is complete. 2400 RPMs is scary to someone not used to running a lathe! It got ran at each speed for about 10 minutes. It's ready to make chips, but I have no tooling lol



Yep, your lathe is topped out at idle RPM of a saw.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Yep, your lathe is topped out at idle RPM of a saw.



Top speed on one of our's is 60rpm. LOL


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Top speed on one of our's is 60rpm. LOL



vertical?


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Top speed on one of our's is 60rpm. LOL



Dang, what kind of saw is it? haha


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> vertical?



Yup. 12 foot. 60 RPM is cooking!!!


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Sep 1, 2012)

It was about 10 degrees, I was doing some overhead with Lincoln Overshield on half inch plate (ABSOLUTE garbage, unless the surface is 110% clean, which defeats the purpose of this wire) at 26-28 volts, and dropped a berry (more like a rock) on to my over sleeve (which it burnt through), my long sleeve jacket, my carhartts, my undershirt, and onto my arm- where it stayed. Still have a heck of a scar (and plenty more), and always will. It only hurt for about .1 of a second, and then I didnt feel anything. Didnt even smell burnt hair, it was more like pork roast haha.
I cant count how many times I have put berries in my boots from torching. Just part of the game. I could avoid most of it with a wellington style boot, but when it was super cold I just wore what kept me warm.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> Dang, what kind of saw is it? haha



A single tooth 12 foot metal cutter....

Well there can be more than one cutter at once......


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 1, 2012)

parrisw said:


> What are you waiting for then, order some!



I don't know what I'm buying, lol. I told Nik today that it's hillarious that I've got this machine that I haven't a clue how to use. But, that's what he's for


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Yup. 12 foot. 60 RPM is cooking!!!



that's actually insane, I've never cut anything at over 2000 sfm.


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Sep 1, 2012)

I found a good deal on a Clausing locally. Hopefully I can grab it in the next week or two. I am thinking about putting it in the basement as well. All this lathe talk has me itching for another.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> that's actually insane, I've never cut anything at over 2000 sfm.



Not on the max OD at 60!!! 

Some castings JUST FIT. 

We have a 0-6' mic set.....


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 1, 2012)

Can someone point me in the right direction for the tool holders I need? I've read where 1/2" holders sometimes can't go low enough to center on my lathe, so perhaps I should go with 3/8"?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> I found a good deal on a Clausing locally. Hopefully I can grab it in the next week or two. I am thinking about putting it in the basement as well. All this lathe talk has me itching for another.



Clausings are a class act!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Can someone point me in the right direction for the tool holders I need? I've read where 1/2" holders sometimes can't go low enough to center on my lathe, so perhaps I should go with 3/8"?



Call Grizzley or PM Papagrizzley


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> that's actually insane, I've never cut anything at over 2000 sfm.



Indicating is a BIOCH!!!!! A lot of walking....


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Clausings are a class act!



I wasnt sure what you thought about them. It seems like a decent machine. I know some of the newer stuff is a little cheaper, but Ive had good luck with them. I probably wont use it a ton, but will end up cutting some cylinder bases down right off the bat more than likely.

It is supposed to have a 3 jaw, but he said that he had a 4 and would throw it in. I wouldnt mind having it downstairs but dont want to move it! Makes me wish I had a walkout basement.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> I wasnt sure what you thought about them. It seems like a decent machine. I know some of the newer stuff is a little cheaper, but Ive had good luck with them. I probably wont use it a ton, but will end up cutting some cylinder bases down right off the bat more than likely.
> 
> It is supposed to have a 3 jaw, but he said that he had a 4 and would throw it in. I wouldnt mind having it downstairs but dont want to move it! Makes me wish I had a walkout basement.



Pictures? An old round head?


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## Tzed250 (Sep 1, 2012)

I ran a 13.5' CNC vertical that would turn 100. 

Neener Neener..


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Sep 1, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Can someone point me in the right direction for the tool holders I need? I've read where 1/2" holders sometimes can't go low enough to center on my lathe, so perhaps I should go with 3/8"?



shars.com

I dont know if anyone else here has delt with shars, but I had good luck with them. I dont know why 3/8 wouldnt suit you.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> I wasnt sure what you thought about them. It seems like a decent machine. I know some of the newer stuff is a little cheaper, but Ive had good luck with them. I probably wont use it a ton, but will end up cutting some cylinder bases down right off the bat more than likely.
> 
> It is supposed to have a 3 jaw, but he said that he had a 4 and would throw it in. I wouldnt mind having it downstairs but dont want to move it! Makes me wish I had a walkout basement.



To move it, either riggers or mount to base, support under stairs, windlass to deadman. 

When in doubt........PRO riggers. Things can go SO wrong SO fast!!


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Pictures?



No I dont. Ive seen it a few times, a not so close bud of mine has it. Very nice guy, I know he has taken care of it. He also has a smaller Logan, but dont know if it is for sale or not. Both seem to be in decent shape. He takes on some wide work from time to time, but I dont think either one see a lot of use.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Indicating is a BIOCH!!!!! A lot of walking....



bet I could make a day outta that....


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Indicating is a BIOCH!!!!! A lot of walking....



LOL!! Yep. I used to set up a part with an 8' OD and a 9" ID that I had to bore a taper in. I would walk backward on the table as I watched the clocks. I would move the chuck jaws by stepping on a lever while I watched the dials. 4 jaws and 4 jacks under the casting. Fun.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> bet I could make a day outta that....



Going too fast and BAD things happen. Just turning a piece over. 11,500 lb and one sling slipped. NOTHING in the way.......we were lucky. 

But Kool as the devil watching it swing!!! A LOT of deer in the headlights looks. 


YOU understand. I saw the "like" on the 0-6' mic set. LOL

But big? Not really. Just saw a guy getting a bid for a 300" Blanchard style grinder.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> LOL!! Yep. I used to set up a part with an 8' OD and a 9" ID that I had to bore a taper in. I would walk backward on the table as I watched the clocks. I would move the chuck jaws by stepping on a lever while I watched the dials. 4 jaws and 4 jacks under the casting. Fun.



Or jog and walk on the chuck as it slowly turns watching the indicator. 1" impacts to tie it down.


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Or jog and walk on the chuck as it slowly turns watching the indicator. 1" impacts to tie it down.



At first it was strange, but after a while it became so normal to walk backwards on the chuck as it turned. Even remembering to step over the jaws as they pass under you. I never imagined I would be doing setups like that when I was was chucking 1" parts in tech school.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 1, 2012)

procarbine2k1 said:


> shars.com
> 
> I dont know if anyone else here has delt with shars, but I had good luck with them. I dont know why 3/8 wouldnt suit you.



So which holders will I be needing? There are a ton of different holders.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> So which holders will I be needing? There are a ton of different holders.



Saturday night on Labor Day Weekend.......

Ain't in a hurry I hope. 

I thought you picked out a cheapy till you upgraded?


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Sep 1, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> So which holders will I be needing? There are a ton of different holders.



shars.com - Quick Change Tool Post Set Wedge Type 111 AXA


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> So which holders will I be needing? There are a ton of different holders.



What was the difference from top of compound to lathe centerline?


----------



## parrisw (Sep 1, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I don't know what I'm buying, lol. I told Nik today that it's hillarious that I've got this machine that I haven't a clue how to use. But, that's what he's for



Start reading! Join a couple forums, they are a great help as you know. Ask lots of questions.



blsnelling said:


> Can someone point me in the right direction for the tool holders I need? I've read where 1/2" holders sometimes can't go low enough to center on my lathe, so perhaps I should go with 3/8"?



1/2 is fine Brad, I wouldn't go with 3/8" much more available for you in 1/2" Mine is a 9" lathe and they center fine. 

This is the kit that I have and it works great. Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store: Quick Change Tool Post Sets - Wedge Type,Quick Change Tool Posts and Holders


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Start reading! Join a couple forums, they are a great help as you know. Ask lots of questions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That seems like a great deal. 

BUT.......one big if......

Can they deliver tonight?????

Tomorrow before 10AM at the latest????? LOL


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

Hey Brad;

You drain the oil after breakin? Strain it through a coffee filter?


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 1, 2012)

I didn't mean a QTCP. I'm asking about the actual inserts and holders that I'll be needing. shars.com - Indexable Cutting Tools


----------



## parrisw (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> That seems like a great deal.
> 
> BUT.......one big if......
> 
> ...



I don't know. They are in the US, I'm in Canada, they deliver to me. You may be able to get it overnight. He is really great to deal with.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Hey Brad;
> 
> You drain the oil after breakin? Strain it through a coffee filter?



I drained it but did not strain it.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 1, 2012)

I'm not trying to get anything this weekend. I'm just trying to learn what I'll be needing so that I can get it ordered.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 1, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I didn't mean a QTCP. I'm asking about the actual inserts and holders that I'll be needing. shars.com - Indexable Cutting Tools



Aaaa, well be specific why don't ya!! 1/2" should be fine, and for turning pistons and cylinders, you'll need a right hand and a left hand cutter. I don't know what else you plan to do with it, I started with just a basic kit with replaceable inserts, then I went from there, and kept buying more stuff.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 1, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Aaaa, well be specific why don't ya!!



Me gots to learn the lingo, so as to not cornfuse you guys


----------



## parrisw (Sep 1, 2012)

This would be a good started set, if your looking for a carbide set with replaceable ends. Get extra ends if you do. You'll probably end up breaking some. 

shars.com - 12quot Indexable Carbide Turning Tool Set

I'd also order up some HSS blanks, and play around with that making your own tools.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 1, 2012)

This is what I started with. Works great, and CHEAP!!! You can't even replace the inserts for this $$.

Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store: Carbide Indexable Lathe Tool Set 1/2",Lathe Boring Bars and Indexable Cutting Tools


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

Brad. Check your email


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## Metals406 (Sep 1, 2012)

Man, you guys got LAD! . . Bad! 

I hope it ain't contagious. :msp_scared:


----------



## Mastermind (Sep 1, 2012)

parrisw said:


> This would be a good started set, if your looking for a carbide set with replaceable ends. Get extra ends if you do. You'll probably end up breaking some.
> 
> shars.com - 12quot Indexable Carbide Turning Tool Set
> 
> *I'd also order up some HSS blanks, and play around with that making your own tools.*



I know very, very little about machine tools or tooling. I have found that I can grind a tool blank into about any shape I need and even I can make nice clean cuts in aluminum with them. Studying tool grinding and getting a good grinder is another thing to learn now.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Man, you guys got LAD! . . Bad!
> 
> I hope it ain't contagious. :msp_scared:



It is terminal. There is no cure. I'm mounting a lathe and mill in the camper of my retirement rig. 








Sadly I am not kidding.


----------



## wigglesworth (Sep 1, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Indicating is a BIOCH!!!!! A lot of walking....



You can say that again....

I did get a new indicator last week. Mine finally crapped the bed, or so I thought. A screw had walked out inside it and was binding on the back cover. 

This is the one I got. Nothing fancy, but does what I need to do.








I didn't read all of it, but did u get a good dial indicator brad? You just bought an expensive and heavy paperweight if u didn't...


----------



## young (Sep 1, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> You can say that again....
> 
> I did get a new indicator last week. Mine finally crapped the bed, or so I thought. A screw had walked out inside it and was binding on the back cover.
> 
> ...





you calling a mitutoyo dial "nothing fancy". come on man. lol


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 1, 2012)

Mitutoyo is top shelf stuff... BUT, a test indicator is superior to a dial indicator for checking run out.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 1, 2012)

and while I'm splitting hairs (which is what I'm doing :msp_wink I don't like the digital bologna indicators:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> Mitutoyo is top shelf stuff... BUT, a test indicator is superior to a dial indicator for checking run out.



Both are shipping to the noob. 

But other brands. He doesn't know the names! LOL


----------



## young (Sep 1, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> and while I'm splitting hairs (which is what I'm doing :msp_wink I don't like the digital bologna indicators:hmm3grin2orange:



its *baloney*tune dial indicator. :jester:


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> and while I'm splitting hairs (which is what I'm doing :msp_wink I don't like the digital bologna indicators:hmm3grin2orange:



I agree. I've never seen digital as accurate as analog. Without a LOT of cost. 

Flame suit on....


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 1, 2012)

I like watching the needle move more than watching the numbers change. It gives you a much better visual in the case of say, something being warped.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 1, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I know very, very little about machine tools or tooling. I have found that I can grind a tool blank into about any shape I need and even I can make nice clean cuts in aluminum with them. Studying tool grinding and getting a good grinder is another thing to learn now.



That's pretty much all I use now Randy. I have a pile of HSS enough to last me a lifetime, I bought a big lot of used stuff of Ebay, was a smoking deal, a few bags of stuff, lots of it was already used, but being HSS, can be reground many many times. 



wigglesworth said:


> I didn't read all of it, but did u get a good dial indicator brad? You just bought an expensive and heavy paperweight if u didn't...



LOL. Ya, indicators are pretty much a needed tool for using a lathe, I have a few of them. Now mine are nothing fancy.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 1, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I like watching the needle move more than watching the numbers change. It gives you a much better visual in the case of say, something being warped.



I'll agree there.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 1, 2012)

When I tell Brad it's a Compac he'll tell me he has a computer and I spelled it wrong. LOL


----------



## Metals406 (Sep 2, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> When I tell Brad it's a Compac he'll tell me he has a computer and I spelled it wrong. LOL


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 2, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I like watching the needle move more than watching the numbers change. It gives you a much better visual in the case of say, something being warped.



Agreed. An AGD series 4 when indicating something large or WAY off center. LOTS of needle swing.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

Ok Brad, take a few days off and start watching!! This guy is really good.

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222/videos


----------



## LegDeLimber (Sep 2, 2012)

didn't crawl through all the links, but I didn't see a shim/pad in the insert pocket
of those boring bars.
just from looking at photos of combustion chambers on here has me wondering 
how much of an interrupted cut he'll normally get into and it's on a shallow tangent 
so that chrome will work a little harder againt the carbide.
you guys know what that'll do for the insert, and after a number of crunches 
in a non pad/shim pockect , the pocket gets damaged and then isn't supporting the
insert in the loaded region.
at that point the (any) tool is trashed bacause it'll do nothing but snap the inserts.
which , in a blind hole, get's him chance at a gouged cylinder (right at the top)


----------



## LegDeLimber (Sep 2, 2012)

Oh, about not using dead center for plugging t'tstock.
don't hang out near as far as that Jacobs (specialy with the key in it)
dang it feels amazing to hit that special spot in your elbow
besides if Ya hang a folded rag on the tail down over the center,
it'll give a bit of padding too.
if that don't work out , you'll always have a bandage & tourniquet handy !
Hell, he's gonna need an overhead hoist to change workpeices anyhow, 
so could just use that to always swing the t'stock off when not in use.

Being a little flippant there for a moment: 

= = =
fun battle scars? 
Oh yeah those chip in elbow pit, (couldn't get good light on all of 'em) while your hand's on the lever at .400~.700
away from the shoulder and don't forget the indicator that'll get smacked and bent shaft.
other pic is why I can't take ambien sleep med.
semi blackouts (with chainsaw) and amnesia 

welding and torching , yeah all the down boot and siz around ankle knob
face spatters (overhead torching out slide rails rusty intermodal trailer frames. 
weld spatter in the ear makes a cute waxy( bacon like) sizzle.
like I said earlier a bushy, not long, beard helps keep those hot sharp circumcisers 
from going down the front of Ya shirt.


----------



## 7sleeper (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> The lathe has better than an hour run time on it, now that the break-in process is complete. *2400 RPMs is scary to someone not used to* running a lathe! It got ran at each speed for about 10 minutes. It's ready to make chips, but I have no tooling lol



You should do a MM to max out that thing! :hmm3grin2orange:

Waiting for the first photos.....

7


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 2, 2012)

7sleeper said:


> You should do a MM to max out that thing! :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Waiting for the first photos.....
> 
> 7



He already is wanting a VFD.........


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> He already is wanting a VFD.........



You've got to *stop *this alphabet soup! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 2, 2012)

Look for apps that will help you figure SFM, FPR, FPT, MRR, BHC, PD, GDT, LMC, MMC, etc.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 2, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Look for apps that will help you figure SFM, FPR, FPT, MRR, BHC, PD, GDT, LMC, MMC, etc.



If you don't, you'll be SOL because what you made is NFG and QA will put a HFD tag on it. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 2, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> If you don't, you'll be SOL because what you made is NFG and QA will put a HFD tag on it. :hmm3grin2orange:



Totally cracking me up!!

All true though. Whether you're on a VTL or an HBM you better get the chips on the floor and the parts out the door PDQ 'cause the owners want their ROI !


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

OK guys. You're cheating. Most of these acronyms you're using aren't machining related


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

*It's time to make chips!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

[video=youtube_share;CUTnnuxxH90]http://youtu.be/CUTnnuxxH90[/video]


----------



## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> [video=youtube_share;CUTnnuxxH90]http://youtu.be/CUTnnuxxH90[/video]



You're gona have fun cleaning chips outa that carpet!!


----------



## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

LOL, that aint right. A cold chisel for a cutter!! What's next a steak knife?


----------



## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

Where is the video of the setup? Did you indicate that piston first!!!! I'll have Nik come over and spank you!! 

Oh wait, you might like that.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Did you indicate that piston first!!!!



I have no indication what I'm doing


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## FATGUY (Sep 2, 2012)

now that's a man determined to cut metal!


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I have no indication what I'm doing



LOL, it looked like you knew how to turn the wheel thingy's.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

On a serious note. Does that lathe have back gear?


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

parrisw said:


> On a serious note. Does that lathe have back gear?



Seriously, I don't know what that is.

On another serious note, what holds the carriage in place while I make my cut? It wants to push away and out of the cut, so I have to hold the handwheel to keep it from moving. Obviously, I can't lock it onto the feed screw, as I want it to not move. Basiclly, how do you lock the carriage down while using the compound slide?


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Seriously, I don't know what that is.
> 
> On another serious note, what holds the carriage in place while I make my cut? It wants to push away and out of the cut, so I have to hold the handwheel to keep it from moving. Obviously, I can't lock it onto the feed screw, as I want it to not move. Basiclly, how do you lock the carriage down while using the compound slide?



Did it come with a manual? There has to be a lock on the carriage, on mine I use a wrench and it just synches down on the way's. Take a close up pic of the carriage and post it up. 

Back gear enables another gear set which will turn the lathe at a very slow speed, good for screw cutting, or turning a large piece.


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

So far, I've only read enough of the manual to do the break-in. I suppose it's time I read a little more! It's more fun making videos and sharing my ignorance for the world to laugh at


----------



## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> So far, I've only read enough of the manual to do the break-in. I suppose it's time I read a little more! It's more fun making videos and sharing my ignorance for the world to laugh at



I just quickly looked through the manual and couldn't see where it said how to lock the carriage down. Look around the ways, there must be a clamp that you tighten up with maybe a Allen key or something.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

Who needs a manual anyway Once I knew what to look for, it was immediately obvious.


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

Here's a shot of my "razor sharp" tool. The ring end pins really did a number on it!





I think I went a little too far on the popup.


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Who needs a manual anyway Once I knew what to look for, it was immediately obvious.



HAH!! Good deal. It was pushing out of the cut because of you cutter.



blsnelling said:


> Here's a shot of my "razor sharp" tool. The ring end pins really did a number on it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL, didn't think it would last. Must be a place local where you can pick up some HSS, and get a white wheel for you grinder for sharpening HSS.


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## dozerdan (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Here's a shot of my "razor sharp" tool. The ring end pins really did a number on it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A little JB weld and it will be as good as new.
You scare me.
I will get your care packaged shipped out on Tuesday. Its time to retire that chisel.

Later
Dan


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

LOL JB the piston. Hell I'll TIG it up for you, the scoring too, then you can remachine it and you'll have a new 088 piston. Good as new!!


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

parrisw said:


> LOL JB the piston. Hell I'll TIG it up for you, the scoring too, then you can remachine it and you'll have a new 088 piston. Good as new!!



It's not even an 088 piston, lol:hmm3grin2orange:


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> It's not even an 088 piston, lol:hmm3grin2orange:



Hmm well we can make it into one. For some reason in the video I thought you said it was a 088 piston.


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

parrisw said:


> For some reason in the video I thought you said it was a 088 piston.



I did. I said a LOT of things in that video


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I did. I said a LOT of things in that video



Oh ha ha ha, for a minute I thought I was losing my mind. Good to hear only you are.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 2, 2012)

Maybe this is what you were trying to make? :msp_unsure:






Oh.. at $15 an insert, stay away from these!


and soon you'll be making stuff like this; the chucked portion is 4.5 inch mystery metal (43xx I think):







and your floor will look like mine : 






and you'll threading stainless to a shoulder like a pro!








Welcome to the most expensive hobby you've ever imagined, and to the biggest time-sink of your life. lol... but it is fun. Apart from the chips in the carpet and sticking up between the cracks in the hardwood floor, I think my wife likes it 'cos she knows where I am at all times - down in the shop(s)!


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## 7sleeper (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Here's a shot of my "razor sharp" tool. The ring end pins really did a number on it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was always wondering what these new strato saws are all about....:hmm3grin2orange:

7


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## Bob Wright (Sep 2, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> and your floor will look like mine :



Mine does in both steel and aluminum...Bob


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## Bob Wright (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I have no indication what I'm doing



Looks like a good idea to have aametalmaster drive across the state and learn ya. I got a vacation coming up...Bob


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

The only thing I was REALLY trying to make was a good laugh, and laugh I have


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> Looks like a good idea to have aametalmaster drive across the state and learn ya. I got a vacation coming up...Bob



I'll take all the advice I can get!


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

7sleeper said:


> I was always wondering what these new strato saws are all about....:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 7



No, this isn't a strato. This is my new "Air-O-Ported" piston design. It's more efficient than traditional transfers in getting the fresh charge to the combustion chamber!


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## Tzed250 (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> No, this isn't a strato. This is my new "Air-O-Ported" piston design. It's more efficient than traditional transfers in getting the fresh charge to the combustion chamber!



All you need is a reed valve on the top and you are in!!


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> All you need is a reed valve on the top and you are in!!



That might be a good idea. I did notice that there was quite a drop in compression!


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

I really like the idea of using inserts. Someone posted a link to these earlier. CCGT INSERTS They look to be a very good choice for aluminum. What holder would I need for these? The specific operations I'm looking at are cutting a popup piston and cutting the cylinder base from the back side, while on a mandrel.

Do you recommend steel, aluminum, or "plastic" mandrels?


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

No no no, that's what's called a piston ported saw!


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I really like the idea of using inserts. Someone posted a link to these earlier. CCGT INSERTS They look to be a very good choice for aluminum. What holder would I need for these? The specific operations I'm looking at are cutting a popup piston and cutting the cylinder base from the back side, while on a mandrel.
> 
> Do you recommend steel, aluminum, or "plastic" mandrels?



I still stand by in saying use HSS, you'll have to learn how to sharpen them, but its not hard, you seem like a smart feller, it wont take much till you can grind out a bit. All my mandrel's are aluminum, I wouldn't use steel, harder and longer to machine, and I just don't like the fact of inserting a steel mandrel into the bore. Lots of people have success with plastic ones, I've never tried them.


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

Yes, I am a pretty fart smeller:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Metals406 (Sep 2, 2012)

Brad, I'm so proud of you right now I could !!

Your _Redneck of the Month_ merit badge is in the mail.


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

You can't beat this set for the price if you want to use inserts.

Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store: Carbide Indexable Lathe Tool Set 1/2",Lathe Boring Bars and Indexable Cutting Tools


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

Doesn't look like those would hold the inserts I linked above.


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Yes, I am a pretty fart smeller:hmm3grin2orange:



Oh? You're one of them EH.


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## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Doesn't look like those would hold the inserts I linked above.



No, but that's why you would buy the inserts that they would hold!! LOL Then can be had for cheaper then the ones you listed.


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Oh? You're one of them EH.



I was just kidding about the pretty part!


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

Is this the kind of holder I'd need to use those CCGT inserts? LINK


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## Tzed250 (Sep 2, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I really like the idea of using inserts. Someone posted a link to these earlier. CCGT INSERTS They look to be a very good choice for aluminum. What holder would I need for these? The specific operations I'm looking at are cutting a popup piston and cutting the cylinder base from the back side, while on a mandrel.
> 
> Do you recommend steel, aluminum, or "plastic" mandrels?





For the piston you would need a right hand turning tool. For the base you will need a left hand turning tool. For inserts to be worth it and effective you need to use much higher surface speed, which means higher spindle speed. Throwing a cylinder on a mandrel out of the machine at 600 rpm can send you to the ER or severely damage the lathe. It is best to get your feet on the ground with HSS, then move to indexable carbide when you get a handle on things.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 2, 2012)

Carbide Inserts suck on small lathes. Cheap carbide sucks on all lathes. You do get what you pay for.

Look up the SFM and DOC requirements for the insert in question (they all have specific data and it's all over the map). Basically, the tool pressure required to cut exceeds the rigidity of small machines, you get chatter so the user dials back the DOC or feed rate and the surface finish (or the ability to hit a number) goes to hell.

I started with a 9x20, movce quickly though a couple of EMCO V10p's (I love those machines), and now have a heavy 14/40 lathe (built like a 16x60). I use negative rake carbide 90% of the time, but even then when it matters I still reach for HSS for the last thou or 10ths. My minimum DOC with the postive rake finish grade carbide I have is about 3-5 thou. Some times I can sneak it to 2 thou, but...

Carbide in soft'ish steel requires SFM of 300-500. HSS is 40-80. You like machining fast to a shoulder? :msp_mellow:

So... if you really want inserts, you can buy HSS inserts in the standard sizes of carbide. If you really really want carbide, choose the highly positive rake finish grades. I like both the DPxx and WPxx series over CCxx. 

A great starter carbide set is the MADE IN USA TT321 sold at Enco. I have a set and use them often. Even TPMM (or whatever) USA carbide won't break the bank. Don't get the "import set"; the hold down screws and holder are made of chewing gum.


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## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> For the piston you would need a right hand turning tool. For the base you will need a left hand turning tool.



What style holder? SCLC? I don't know what that means, but have seen them mentioned a couple places.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 2, 2012)

Madrels question: I make them from steel. I can see aluminum for cylinders, but there are other uses for mandrels other than saws!

For easy to make accurate mandrels use free machining steels - like 12L14. You can get a mirror finish with no sweat and cut 10th's with HSS. Keep 1018 and A36 for welding projects. Alternatively, use 1144 stressproof.

If you use aluminum, use 6061T6 - machines decently with good surface finish. On your lathe you might find 2xxx a bit gummy and 7075 a difficult. If you get it hot while turing, let it cool before final cuts or you'll be way out on your target measurements.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 2, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> For the piston you would need a right hand turning tool. For the base you will need a left hand turning tool. For inserts to be worth it and effective you need to use much higher surface speed, which means higher spindle speed. Throwing a cylinder on a mandrel out of the machine at 600 rpm can send you to the ER or severely damage the lathe. It is best to get your feet on the ground with HSS, then move to indexable carbide when you get a handle on things.



Listen to this Brad.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 2, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Carbide Inserts suck on small lathes. Cheap carbide sucks on all lathes. You do get what you pay for.
> 
> Look up the SFM and DOC requirements for the insert in question (they all have specific data and it's all over the map). Basically, the tool pressure required to cut exceeds the rigidity of small machines, you get chatter so the user dials back the DOC or feed rate and the surface finish (or the ability to hit a number) goes to hell.
> 
> ...



you have a link for that Andy? I'd love to see an HSS version of a VNMG331.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 2, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Madrells question: make them from steel. For easy to make accurate mandrels use free machining steels - like 12L14. You can get a mirror finish with no sweat and cut 10th's with HSS. Keep 1018 and A36 for welding projects. Alternatively, use 1144 stressproof.



416 cuts like butter. Maybe? ;-))


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 2, 2012)

Wear boots and cuffless pants. NEVER wear those boots in the house. You WILL screw up the floor covering. Sumo the chips out of your pockets. Wear short sleeve shirts. Wear short sleeve shirts. Wear short sleeve shirts.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 2, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> 416 cuts like butter. Maybe? ;-))





Yep, love that stuff. But let's not get Brad into Stainless just yet:hmm3grin2orange:

Hey Brad, ignore all of this and buy some 316 and inconal. I have some Superinvar 36 if you like. So easy to work with on a small lathe.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 2, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> you have a link for that Andy? I'd love to see an HSS version of a VNMG331.




Me too, but that one they don't have. Maybe you can stretch a DPxxx insert 

Arthur R. Warner Co. | Specialists in High Speed Steel - Standard and Specialty Inserts


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

It's not the carbide I'm after, it's the inserts. At this stage, I want to keep it as simple as possible, and not having to grind my own cutters sounds good. I'll definitely be checking into these.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

I see that inserts not only come in different shapes, but also different sizes. What size/s should I be looking at?

2152

3255

3251

Looks like the 2152 has the largest radius. Would that equal a smoother finish at a slower spindle speed?


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 2, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> I like both the DPxx and WPxx series over CCxx.



Do you like these better than the CCMWs linked above? LINK


----------



## Jim Timber (Sep 2, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Wear boots and cuffless pants. NEVER wear those boots in the house. You WILL screw up the floor covering. Sumo the chips out of your pockets. Wear short sleeve shirts. Wear short sleeve shirts. Wear short sleeve shirts.



Shoes come off at the door - no exceptions!


My last employer offered long sleeve work shirts. I should've gotten the hint about their lack of concern for our safety right there.

One guy in tech school lost a hoodie to a 5hp lathe - fortunately, it came off instead of sucking him in.

Lathes have an insatiable appetite for idiots - don't give them a chance to bite.


----------



## Metals406 (Sep 2, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Wear boots and cuffless pants. NEVER wear those boots in the house. You WILL screw up the floor covering. Sumo the chips out of your pockets. Wear short sleeve shirts. Wear short sleeve shirts. Wear short sleeve shirts.



Yeah, but should he wear short sleeved shirts?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 2, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Yeah, but should he wear short sleeved shirts?



Brad often skims..... ;-))


----------



## dozerdan (Sep 2, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> Listen to this Brad.



Brad
Don't worry about cutters. I will send you a HSS ground for the pistons and another one for the cylinder base. Once you see them you will be able to sharpen and duplicate them.

Practice with HSS BEFORE you play with carbide.

Later
Dan


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 2, 2012)

Seems to be a theme here. I DO NOT run a lathe wearing long sleeves. For real Brad, you will enjoy running the machine more using HSS. The chips aren't nearly as hot, and you can watch the work progress at a much slower pace. Grinding tools is not that hard. Cast aluminum is easy to machine. In school you must be able to grind a correct OD tool before you are ever allowed to turn a lathe on. It teaches you principles of metal removal like relief, tool nose radius, rake, etc.


----------



## H 2 H (Sep 2, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Seems to be a theme here. *I DO NOT run a lathe wearing long sleeves*. For real Brad, you will enjoy running the machine more using HSS. The chips aren't nearly as hot, and you can watch the work progress at a much slower pace. Grinding tools is not that hard. Cast aluminum is easy to machine. In school you must be able to grind a correct OD tool before you are ever allowed to turn a lathe on. It teaches you principles of metal removal like relief, tool nose radius, rake, etc.




In the 30 plus years I've used mills and lathe seen some pretty nasty thing happen to new operators wearing long sleeves; long hair etc

Hot chips only sting for a while :msp_biggrin:


----------



## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> For the piston you would need a right hand turning tool. For the base you will need a left hand turning tool. For inserts to be worth it and effective you need to use much higher surface speed, which means higher spindle speed. Throwing a cylinder on a mandrel out of the machine at 600 rpm can send you to the ER or severely damage the lathe. It is best to get your feet on the ground with HSS, then move to indexable carbide when you get a handle on things.





Lakeside53 said:


> Carbide Inserts suck on small lathes. Cheap carbide sucks on all lathes. You do get what you pay for.
> 
> Look up the SFM and DOC requirements for the insert in question (they all have specific data and it's all over the map). Basically, the tool pressure required to cut exceeds the rigidity of small machines, you get chatter so the user dials back the DOC or feed rate and the surface finish (or the ability to hit a number) goes to hell.
> 
> ...





FATGUY said:


> Listen to this Brad.



Ya! LOL, its what I kept trying to say without going into great detail! Thanks Andy. I did say much earlier that you wont have the HP to take advantage of Carbide. I went through all of this when I got mine, Andy was a great help to me told me more then I could ask for about tooling, now the carbide stuff I have sits on the shelf, and all I use is HSS, YOU WILL GET A MUCH BETTER FINISH WITH HSS ON YOUR LATHE!!!!! Its not hard to learn to grind HSS, you need to learn, so just go ahead and learn NOW. As long as you have enough relief on the cutter, you'll be good, you'll learn how to fine tune as you go along, you can even hone the tip if you wish, you don't want the cutting tip at a sharp point. Lots of vids on youtube about grinding tooling. And like I said before, you'll need the proper white wheel for grinding HSS, and a little bucket of water to keep it cool.

If your just going to use HSS inserts, I can't see the point in that. Just get a blank, you have much more to play with.


----------



## Bob Wright (Sep 2, 2012)

Download one of these links for HTRAL How To Run A Lathe by the South Bend Lathe Co. You can get newer ones on ebay but most of them are pretty good info wise...Bob
http://www.wswells.com/data/htral/htral_index.html


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 2, 2012)

parrisw said:


> If your just going to use HSS inserts, I can't see the point in that. Just get a blank, you have much more to play with.



I agree. They are super handy for cnc when you need absolute repeatabily, but less interesting for a home shop.

I have about 100lb of quality HSS cutters - most free from various auctions and machinest garage sales. Some of it is even marked "SST only"; for the non-Seattlites, SST means "Super Sonic Transporter" - a sure sign the guy worked on Boeing products.

Brad - Tooling is expensive. Rather than loading up on Shars type stuff, start monitoring your local Craigslist tools section, and hanging out at machine shop auctions and estate sales. I have a very nice array of quality tooling and inspection (measuring) equipment from such sources. The second area of $$ is materials. Even though you think you are just going to turn piston and cylinder bases, there is another world Start collecting all the aluminum, brass and quality steels you can find. Any surplus makes great trading stock with the new machining buddys you will meet.

And... about those machining buddy's - find one. Machining may appear to be a something you can self teach, but this is one area where experience can save you a bunch of time, frustation and $. There are some good forums (like http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net), but you'll not be welcome on Practical Machinest if you mention Grizzley; the owner/moderator bans such talk.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> I agree. They are super handy for cnc when you need absolute repeatabily, but less interesting for a home shop.
> 
> I have about 100lb of quality HSS cutters - most free from various auctions and machinest garage sales. Some of it is even marked "SST only"; for the non-Seattlites, SST means "Super Sonic Transporter" - a sure sign the guy worked on Boeing products.
> 
> ...



I hear Boeing surplus is good. homeshopmachinist is good, I'm on there, don't get there very often though.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 2, 2012)

Unfortunately Boeing Surplus closed a year or so back. They have a web site for sales but it's not even close to what the store provided.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 2, 2012)

Well said Andy;

Self taught machining is as self taught solo.....well anyway...

You know you are a machinist when you know 10% of what you THOUGHT you knew ten years ago.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

Although, I've learned allot on my own, from reading and the internet. I wish I had a machinist buddy to show me the ropes, but alas, no such luck.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 2, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Unfortunately Boeing Surplus closed a year or so back. They have a web site for sales but it's not even close to what the store provided.



That's too bad, wish I could of gone to one. Though a friend of a friend works at Boeing, maybe he can hook me up.


----------



## H 2 H (Sep 3, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Unfortunately Boeing Surplus closed a year or so back. They have a web site for sales but it's not even close to what the store provided.




WOW; didn't know that

Kinda glad I have what I have now

That place was my ace in the hole for cutting tools and bits etc.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 3, 2012)

I want Brad to visit "Cabin Fever 2013" in York PA. 

He can see what is possible. 

Then have him go to the IMTS show to see what is possible.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 3, 2012)

Then Mayo Clinc? Depression is a treatable aliment


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 3, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Although, I've learned allot on my own, from reading and the internet. I wish I had a machinist buddy to show me the ropes, but alas, no such luck.



We're only 80 miles apart! oh... water, borders... bummer.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 3, 2012)

Naaaa.......

Duct tape. 

Wrap his head to keep brain splatter down when his head explodes.........


----------



## parrisw (Sep 3, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> We're only 80 miles apart! oh... water, borders... bummer.



Ya, I know. I was actually just down your way at a friends place, but so little time, only there for a couple days, he lives in Redmond. Would be kinda hard to explain to the wife and kids, ya I wont be with you while we're in Seattle for a couple days. Maybe next time.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 3, 2012)

Redmond? ok., 5 miles... Bring them out and let them play in my lake! We can huddle in the shop.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 3, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Redmond? ok., 5 miles... Bring them out and let them play in my lake! We can huddle in the shop.



Wow didn't realize it was that close!! I could of snuck out for a bit!!! What lake? Lake Washington? Probably wont be out that way till next year again. Too bad the ferry is so darn expensive, doesn't take that long to get there.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 3, 2012)

Lake Tuck. Winter view from my deck


----------



## parrisw (Sep 3, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Lake Tuck. Winter view from my deck



Wow, very nice. The Tuck Lake that comes up on Google maps, looks allot further then 5 miles out of Redmond.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 3, 2012)

Depends where in Redmond. It's about 5 miles to where i go!


----------



## parrisw (Sep 3, 2012)

Very close to redmond town center, like 2 mins. Looked on google Satellite and there is no roads to the lake that it shows! LOL Must be the wrong one.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 3, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> I want Brad to visit "Cabin Fever 2013" in York PA.
> 
> He can see what is possible.
> 
> Then have him go to the *IMTS* show to see what is possible.



you going?


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Sep 3, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Lake Tuck. Winter view from my deck



That view is unbelievable!


----------



## procarbine2k1 (Sep 3, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Pictures? An old round head?



The Clausing has a longer bed on it than I am going to need, it normally wouldnt matter but I have a specific place in my shop that it needs to go. He also has a Logan 957 that I think I am going to grab in lieu of the Clausing. The Logan has a 3 and 4 jaw, foot brake, and some other things that I like. It was a flat belt setup converted to v belt.

I did spend some time on the Clausing though, and it is a very nice running machine. The Logan is in the middle of a rebuild, and should be done in a couple weeks. I am going to give it a whirl when its done, and see which one I like better. Talk to ya later


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 3, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> you going?



Used to go to Westec every year. Back when I got paid to go. 

Used to go to the Auto Manufacturing show too. Friends got to go to the Paris Air Show. LOL. Never me. 

Cabin Fever I head to with a main cohort in crime. From guns to motorcycles to saws. 

I'd go to Chicago this year. Let's drag Brad along. Lord knows they got everything. From hand drill sharpeners on. They used to have a machine you programed by moving jumper wires. 

Was it "CRC" who had the contortionist?????


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 3, 2012)

Logan with a rebuild. Kool. You'll never wear it out. Good luck. Let us know. 

New lathe rates it's own thread.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 4, 2012)

Did something on my lathe this eve, I've been needing a HD Boring bar for some time now, just never bought one. Rob saw what I was using and generously offered to make me one for a good deal, thanks ROB!! Anyway was looking at some online today and thought I could easily make one myself, so this is my first try at making my own lathe tooling, came out ok I think, we'll see how it cuts soon hopefully. 

Made out of 3/4" stock 8" long, thinking now I should of made it 10" long, wish I had some nicer material but this will do, it takes 1/4" HSS bits. Still need to drill and tap for a set screw to hold the bit in. Just milled a slot at 30deg, was thinking either 30 or 45deg???? At the other end I'll mill a slot at 90deg, so it can do double duty.


----------



## sun64 (Sep 4, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Did something on my lathe this eve, I've been needing a HD Boring bar for some time now, just never bought one. Rob saw what I was using and generously offered to make me one for a good deal, thanks ROB!! Anyway was looking at some online today and thought I could easily make one myself, so this is my first try at making my own lathe tooling, came out ok I think, we'll see how it cuts soon hopefully.
> 
> Made out of 3/4" stock 8" long, thinking now I should of made it 10" long, wish I had some nicer material but this will do, it takes 1/4" HSS bits. Still need to drill and tap for a set screw to hold the bit in. Just milled a slot at 30deg, was thinking either 30 or 45deg???? At the other end I'll mill a slot at 90deg, so it can do double duty.



Nice work parrisw. I always admire people who have a go and do things themselves.
Great work and you can say , I made that !!!

Wayne :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## parrisw (Sep 4, 2012)

sun64 said:


> Nice work parrisw. I always admire people who have a go and do things themselves.
> Great work and you can say , I made that !!!
> 
> Wayne :msp_thumbsup:



Thanks! Yes that's the best part, that I can say I made it my self.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

Nice work. 

Angled works, but you'll also find much of the time just 90 degrees flush with the end is most useful. You can still kick it out a few degrees as required. A very short section of 1/4 hss (not much longer then the bar width) is perfect. Two small shcs will clamp it.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 4, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Nice work.
> 
> Angled works, but you'll also find much of the time just 90 degrees flush with the end is most useful. You can still kick it out a few degrees as required. A very short section of 1/4 hss (not much longer then the bar width) is perfect. Two small shcs will clamp it.



Thanks Andy, I figured angled would be better for machining out squish bands. What's shcs? Some kind of cap screw?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 4, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Thanks Andy, I figured angled would be better for machining out squish bands. What's shcs? Some kind of cap screw?



Socket Head Cap Screw


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Thanks Andy, I figured angled would be better for machining out squish bands. What's shcs? Some kind of cap screw?



Yes, you just make what you need for a special purpose. I aquired several hundred "last century" specifically ground HSS bits (or lumps in some cases) for those "special hard-to-reach" areas. You can go bankrupt buying specialty carbide for those one-off projects.

One thing with 1/4 inch - you can reach far... maybe 2-> 2.5 diameters in steel... or you risk chatter or tool deflection. Same with the boring bar - a 1 inch is "good" for maybe 2.5 inches of reach, athough that's often abused by this writer! A solid carbide bar ($$) is good for about 10X diameter, so a 1/2 inch bar - maybe 5 inches. I have a few... down to 3/32 inch diameter, and that one has an insert on the end


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 4, 2012)

Screws On the top for this bar. 

Fine threads mean more pressure, enough to open it up. Keep away from the edge. Make sure there is enough lower support.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 4, 2012)

I ordered a nice depth gauge to measure my popup pistons with!


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 4, 2012)

Hardy har har...


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 4, 2012)

you are joking, right?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 4, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> you are joking, right?



You're sure.........except for that little bit of nagging doubt.......


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 4, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> You're sure.........except for that little bit of nagging doubt.......



I'm just hoping. I mean, why not just use a 6" scale?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 4, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I'm just hoping. I mean, why not just use a 6" scale?



Because most wouldn't believe you. 

George was sitting at a lathe one time cutting down heading dies. Measuring with a scale. 

A clueless engineer ( there are many kinds. Like saws) walked up and saw Ol George. 

Said it wasn't accurate enough. 

George said he was sure he was within .005. 

Engineer didn't believe him. 

Ol Gator(as George was known) never twitched. 

On a good day I can get within .002.......

Can't be done.........and then there were banjos in the background. 

Wanna bet????????

Gator never missed. 

Engineer still thought it was a trick.....


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 4, 2012)

Brad; 
Find a T-Base??


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 4, 2012)

'Ol Gator's are few and far between...


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 4, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> you are joking, right?



Why not? That's the same as the one you use at your shop:msp_ohmy:


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 4, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Brad;
> Find a T-Base??



Nope. I had one picked out from MSC and Nik said it was junk.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 4, 2012)

I have no use for them.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> why not? That's the same as the one you use at your shop:msp_ohmy:



burn!!!!!!


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Why not? That's the same as the one you use at your shop:msp_ohmy:



to keep papers from blowing off my desk...


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 4, 2012)

When I set fixtures on the table I'm usually inside of .015 by eyecrometer. I've hit it dead nuts a few times.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 4, 2012)

I never skimp on measuring instruments. Making parts is hard enough, I don't enjoy the challenge of not really knowing what I made.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 4, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> 'Ol Gator's are few and far between...



Progressive and heading die work were slow to go to CNC. 

Too much art work to it. 

All Ol Pharts where I was larned tool and die. 






"Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to tool and die"


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 4, 2012)

A T-base for calipers?? Unkjay, don't own one.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 4, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I have no use for them.



Checking tread depth on a tire??? 

Brad is covered till he gets spoiled with good tooling.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 4, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> A T-base for calipers?? Unkjay, don't own one.



Great for ballpark work. To get a starting point. Till you can learn to use a scale.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 4, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Great for ballpark work. To get a starting point. Till you can learn to use a scale.



Actually, what I'm really after is a small T device that I can set on the base of the cylinder to mark my vertical layout lines with for porting. A 6" rule with a t-slide would work perfect. Something like this, LINK.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 4, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Screws On the top for this bar.
> 
> Fine threads mean more pressure, enough to open it up. Keep away from the edge. Make sure there is enough lower support.



Yes all things I thought about, I made the lower support more then the top. Fine thread a must. Was actually thinking of welding the end closed so it won't open up.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

Dedicated depth micrometers get used little in my shop. I have a beautiful almost unused set. Pop-up on a piston? Touch tool to crown, cut back as required based on mag base travel indicator on carriage. Done. For the ports etc, back-end of a QUALITY caliper. Make a t support if you like but after a while you'll get good enough and the square end and extention will likely be sufficient.


Oh.... wait... maybe he needs one to copy other guys work! lol....


Brad - buy a a quality mag base stand (or a few of them!), at least one +/- 15 thou name brand (Mitutoyo, Starret etc) indiator, a few random dial indicators and a quality 1 or 2 inch travel indicator. You are going to some decent gear just to dial in your piston or cylinder in a 4 jaw chuck.


If you really want to measure from t-base, peruse these : 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=depth+micrometer&_sacat=0


----------



## Rudolf73 (Sep 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Actually, what I'm really after is a small T device that I can set on the base of the cylinder to mark my vertical layout lines with for porting. A 6" rule with a t-slide would work perfect. Something like this, LINK.



Yeah that's what I use Brad, I got one for a few dollars on fleabay.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 4, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Dedicated depth micrometers get used little in my shop. I have a beautiful almost unused set. Pop-up on a piston? Touch tool to crown, cut back as required based on mag base travel indicator on carriage. Done. For the ports etc, back-end of a QUALITY caliper. Make a t support if you like but after a while you'll get good enough and the square end and extention will likely be sufficient.
> 
> 
> Oh.... wait... maybe he needs one to copy other guys work! lol....
> ...



Awesome info there. Ya for piston and cylinder work, I find that the dials on my lathe handles at accurate enough to get me within a thou of desired squish, however I don't do it that way anymore. I have a indicator on the carriage.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 4, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> ...but after a while you'll get good enough and the square end and extention will likely be sufficient.



That's what I've done for the last couple of years. A little larger base would be handy though.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 4, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Yes, you just make what you need for a special purpose. I aquired several hundred "last century" specifically ground HSS bits (or lumps in some cases) for those "special hard-to-reach" areas. You can go bankrupt buying specialty carbide for those one-off projects.
> 
> One thing with 1/4 inch - you can reach far... maybe 2-> 2.5 diameters in steel... or you risk chatter or tool deflection. Same with the boring bar - a 1 inch is "good" for maybe 2.5 inches of reach, athough that's often abused by this writer! A solid carbide bar ($$) is good for about 10X diameter, so a 1/2 inch bar - maybe 5 inches. I have a few... down to 3/32 inch diameter, and that one has an insert on the end



Yes. I've been using a bar that's way too small, and it has a tiny HSS insert. It worked, but not like it could have. 3/4" is the biggest bar I can hold, and I don't plan on hanging the bit out too far, just as long as I need to, no more.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 4, 2012)

Pics of you guys' tooling and setups would be great


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Pics of you guys' tools would be great



pervert...


----------



## parrisw (Sep 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Pics of you guys' tooling and setups would be great



easy, a tool holder, we all know what that looks like, and either with a RH or a LH cutter in it!! LOL


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 4, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> pervert...



I think that makes YOU the pervert!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 4, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> pervert...



Now. Now. Alternate life style.....


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Yes. I've been using a bar that's way too small, and it has a tiny HSS insert. It worked, but not like it could have. 3/4" is the biggest bar I can hold, and I don't plan on hanging the bit out too far, just as long as I need to, no more.




Toss the compound (ok, you can keep it), machine (or "obtain") a suitable block of steel, bolt it to the carriage using the compound mount post (or whatever) and use the lathe to bore whatever diameter you need for a bar. Also, make it so you can hold tooling. Light lathe compounds SUCK for rigidity; try a dedicated tool block when you don't need compound action and you'll be blown away by the improvement.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 4, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Toss the compound (ok, you can keep it), machine (or "obtain") a suitable block of steel, bolt it to the carriage using the compound mount post (or whatever) and use the lathe to bore whatever diameter you need for a bar. Also, make it so you can hold tooling. Light lathe compounds SUCK for rigidity; try a dedicated tool block when you don't need compound action and you'll be blown away by the improvement.



I've often thought about that, then I'd need a boring head? Once you bore the hole, how do you clamp the bar in the hole? Cut the block in half and bolt back together. I've seen the boring bar holders that bolt directly to where the tool post mounts. 

So you're just talking about getting rid of my quick change tool post? And just using a hunk of steel? Then I'd guess I'd have to shim to get the right height?


----------



## Bob Wright (Sep 4, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> try a dedicated tool block when you don't need compound action and you'll be blown away by the improvement.



I use a bunch of them. Gawd i love making fixtures. This fixture could just as easy hold a boring bar or a cut off tool...Bob


----------



## Bob Wright (Sep 4, 2012)

parrisw said:


> So you're just talking about getting rid of my quick change tool post? And just using a hunk of steel? Then I'd guess I'd have to shim to get the right height?



Or start with a block of steel with the hole custom fit to your lathes centerline and tooling, like this one. Do it all the time...Bob


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Pics of you guys' tooling and setups would be great



Driving expanding mandrels. I hate dogs, so i built my own 








Oh... I built the most useful machine in my shop - a 2x72 belt sander that can move the belt reliably at 0-> 6000sfm... Actually, I built 2 with interchangeable parts.






The belt tracking mechanisum (my design entirely)






One of several attachments - this one adapts buffing wheels and grinder wheels/disks.







The rest of the pics are here :
x72 Belt grinder pictures by lakeside53 - Photobucket


----------



## Bob Wright (Sep 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Pics of you guys' tooling and setups would be great



Join my yahoo lathe group and look at all the pics in the folders and files for some great ideas. I thought so anyways...Bob
southbend10k : SouthBendLathe10k and lathe projects.


----------



## wigglesworth (Sep 4, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I have no use for them.



Me either...

Oh wait, this isnt the autotune thread is it?


----------



## Metals406 (Sep 4, 2012)

Brad, Will already had you subscribe to tublecain on YouTube, but you need to sub to Keith too.

He's a job shop, and a good one at that. I've learned a lot from his videos -- I'd also like to shake his hand some day.

Turn Wright Machine Works - YouTube


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I've often thought about that, then I'd need a boring head? Once you bore the hole, how do you clamp the bar in the hole? Cut the block in half and bolt back together. I've seen the boring bar holders that bolt directly to where the tool post mounts.
> 
> So you're just talking about getting rid of my quick change tool post? And just using a hunk of steel? Then I'd guess I'd have to shim to get the right height?





Tool holder can't handle the right sized bar? Here's one with the compound:







It's bored to size with a boring head like this. You can also use and endmill and/or drill. if your insert isn't on center (most positive rake are, but...) set the block height so the resultant center of the bore for the exact insert centerline. The pic shows one of my fancy solid carbide boring bars. It can extend as shown and more.







Here's the base block with an AXA toolpost (the block above can bolt to the top also). Massively rigid in comparison to a compound:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> Join my yahoo lathe group and look at all the pics in the folders and files for some great ideas. I thought so anyways...Bob
> southbend10k : SouthBendLathe10k and lathe projects.





And this thead is worth reading end to end when you have a couple of sleepless nights :Shop Made Tools


----------



## Rudolf73 (Sep 4, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> [snip]
> 
> 
> Here's the base block with an AXA toolpost (the block above can bolt to the top also). Massively rigid in comparison to a compound:



Is that an Emco Maximat you have there Lake?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

Rudolf73 said:


> Is that an Emco Maximat you have there Lake?




It's one of 2 V10P's i owned and sold to immediate neighbors (so i can still get to them). Should have kept the last one... 

The second I completely rebuilt (been in a damp basement for 35 years, but basically unused).

From this:














To this: 








Pics here : Emco v10P rebuild pictures by lakeside53 - Photobucket


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 4, 2012)

I remember when you were cleaning up those rusty gears.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

Teresa460 said:


> I do not want to buy an old lathe that needs refurbed. If buying used, I wouldn't know a worn out machine from a good one. I was thinking something along the lines of a Grizzly. Of course, if someone I knew had a good older US made unit, that would be different. It MUST be small though




Add European to that list... The above is an EMCO (not eNco) V10P. A wonderfully accuate and fully featured lathe. Old SMALL USA iron rarely competes with German or British offerings.


----------



## Rudolf73 (Sep 4, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> It's one of 2 V10P's i owned and sold to immediate neighbors (so i can still get to them). Should have kept the last one...
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...



Very nice! The V10P is on my wish list. Its made in Austria so you can't go wrong. There was a local one advertised for $2600, but that's a bit high for me at the moment.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I remember when you were cleaning up those rusty gears.



Yep...2009? 

It''s really important that the "cleaning" doesn't included abrasive (even rotary wire brushes) methods. I restored that lathe and mill to new specs by safe chemical (not acids!) removal of the rust. Today I'd add electroysis to derusting (and de-painting) of selected parts.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

Rudolf73 said:


> Very nice! The V10P is on my wish list. Its made in Austria so you can't go wrong. There was a local one advertised for $2600, but that's a bit high for me at the moment.



You see them for $1200 to $1800 often. I paid $800, but it was a basket case. I put maybe $200 in parts (mostly bearings), and a couple of hundred hours. The paint is original.

Of course it didn't stop there... I added a 3 phase motor and VFD, then aquired a genuine base and.. and.. lol..


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 4, 2012)

We had a Super 11 at school. Nice machine.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

The Super 11 II is a sweet machine. 

I'd love to find a V13 for less than $4000.... but rarely offered for sale unless someone dies (estate).:msp_mad:


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 4, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> The Super 11 II is a sweet machine.
> 
> I'd love to find a V13 for less than $4000.... but rarely offered for sale unless someone dies (estate).:msp_mad:



Yeah, some kind of alchemy going on because that old Austrian iron seems to be turning to gold.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 4, 2012)

Bob Wright said:


> Or start with a block of steel with the hole custom fit to your lathes centerline and tooling, like this one. Do it all the time...Bob



Right, makes sense. 



Lakeside53 said:


> Tool holder can't handle the right sized bar? Here's one with the compound:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My problem is, when I take off the top compound, then how do I affix the "block" to the carriage? There is nothing to bolt to. I'd have to machine a small "button" that fastens the same way the compound does, then I'm back in the same boat as having a compound. Thanks all for the great ideas! I need another "me" to get them all done. 

I've started another project today, I'm remaking my milling attachment, the vise on mine sucks, doesn't even have jaws, so I'm going to mill the fixed vise "jaws" right off and making a steel plate to bolt on a different vise. Will be able to hold parts much better when I'm done, right now it only has two screws that you can hold stock with. The vise I picked up is a style that clamps on, so I'm machining some clamps that will bolt down and hold the vise, this way its removable, and then I can also bolt down a rotary table if I want. I'll get some pics soon when I'm out working on it again. I really just need a stand alone mill, but they just never come up around here, just for a used Mill/Drill people want $$$$$$ for them.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2012)

Being slight adrift from the mainland doesn't help. If you want a mill you should keep an eye on the Seattle/Portland area auctions.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 4, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Being slight adrift from the mainland doesn't help. If you want a mill you should keep an eye on the Seattle/Portland area auctions.



Ya, I've often thought of that, but the time issue, involved with hunting down a mill in Seattle, buying, looking at it, picking it up, ect ect. Where would there be auctions listed?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 5, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Right, makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> My problem is, when I take off the top compound, then how do I affix the "block" to the carriage? There is nothing to bolt to. I'd have to machine a small "button" that fastens the same way the compound does, then I'm back in the same boat as having a compound. Thanks all for the great ideas! I need another "me" to get them all done.





I don't know how your compound attaches, but I assume it has t-bolts to the cross slide and some type of center That alone for a block is superior to most rubbery compounds. Additionally, you can drill/tap two or more holes into your cross slide. Easy stuff:msp_wink:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 5, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Ya, I've often thought of that, but the time issue, involved with hunting down a mill in Seattle, buying, looking at it, picking it up, ect ect. Where would there be auctions listed?




Here's one : JGM - Home

There a mill in the auction on Thursday. Big auction on the 19th/20th has at least three BP's

If you need a mill bad enough, you'll find a way!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Toss the compound (ok, you can keep it), machine (or "obtain") a suitable block of steel, bolt it to the carriage using the compound mount post (or whatever) and use the lathe to bore whatever diameter you need for a bar. Also, make it so you can hold tooling. Light lathe compounds SUCK for rigidity; try a dedicated tool block when you don't need compound action and you'll be blown away by the improvement.




It's like my dear Ol Grandmother used to say;

The three most important things in sex and machining are;

Rigidity!!!

Rigidity!!!

Rigidity!!


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 5, 2012)

Just being able to lock the compound can make a big difference. Never mind that all metal is like rubber, the fact that it can slide means there's movement.

Project # 8795 is to modify my TUM35 compound so I can lock it! One day...


----------



## parrisw (Sep 5, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> I don't know how your compound attaches, but I assume it has t-bolts to the cross slide and some type of center That alone for a block is superior to most rubbery compounds. Additionally, you can drill/tap two or more holes into your cross slide. Easy stuff:msp_wink:



Just like an old south bend model A. There is a little button about 1.25" around with a taper, and two set screws pinch in on it, that's it. There is no t-bolts, I wish it was like that. Suppose I could drill and tap. 



Lakeside53 said:


> Here's one : JGM - Home
> 
> There a mill in the auction on Thursday. Big auction on the 19th/20th has at least three BP's
> 
> If you need a mill bad enough, you'll find a way!



Hmm, nice!!! You want to go pick one up for me? LOL.

If I'm lucky sometime next year I can afford one, right now just a dream. I'll have to make due with my lathe.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

On a HLVH I took the compound off and had a 2x2 hunk of steel to mount a circular form tool to. 

Rigidity!!


----------



## parrisw (Sep 5, 2012)

Here's what I did today. Going to adapt this to mount in the lathe for a milling vise. Hopefully its not too much weight hanging off the carriage, if it is, I was actually thinking of making something to hang off the opposite side to equal out the weight.

Here is the vise with the 4 block clamps I machined today. Still have to drill out the clamps for a bolt, then drill and tap the plate its all sitting on, now just have to figure out an easy way to lay out the holes, that is one thing I'm always a little challenged with is hole layout.











Here is the block I machined, please excuse the surface finish, its a 2flute end mill, and still figuring this stuff out.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 5, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Just like an old south bend model A. There is a little button about 1.25" around with a taper, and two set screws pinch in on it, that's it. There is no t-bolts, I wish it was like that. Suppose I could drill and tap.




I know exactly what you have. I'm so sorry... :msp_sad:

lol... seriously... when the rains return think about making a big "block" for your tool post and an auxiliary way of securing it


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 5, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Here is the vise with the 4 block clamps I machined today. Still have to drill out the clamps for a bolt, then drill and tap the plate its all sitting on, now just have to figure out an easy way to lay out the holes, that is one thing I'm always a little challenged with is hole layout.
> 
> Here is the block I machined, please excuse the surface finish, its a 2flute end mill, and still figuring this stuff out.




Hole layout.... a mill with a dro  but way before DRO edge finders and counting x/y dials worked great. If your problem is repeating a pattern /measurment for mating surface - buy or make some cheap transfer punches. 

Surface finish.. yes, always ellusive if you use A36 or 1018 type metal. Keep your eyes open for 1144 stressproof. Can't weld it, but it sure machines nicely..


----------



## parrisw (Sep 5, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> I know exactly what you have. I'm so sorry... :msp_sad:
> 
> lol... seriously... when the rains return think about making a big "block" for your tool post and an auxiliary way of securing it



LOL, thanks!! The problem is with a big block is tool height though, I would need allot of big blocks to fit all the tools. Unless I machine a groove then just shim the cutter, but its nice to just be able to adjust the thumb knob to adjust height.



Lakeside53 said:


> Hole layout.... a mill with a dro  but way before DRO edge finders and counting x/y dials worked great. If your problem is repeating a pattern /measurment for mating surface - buy or make some cheap transfer punches.
> 
> Surface finish.. yes, always ellusive if you use A36 or 1018 type metal. Keep your eyes open for 1144 stressproof. Can't weld it, but it sure machines nicely..



Ya, maybe I'll have to get some transfer punches. The problem here in this situation is once I get the clamps drilled, is getting the holes in the right spot on the backing plate, hard to hold the clamps in the vise groove then transfer the hole, I guess I could maybe clamp the clamps to the vise then transfer the holes??


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 5, 2012)

parrisw said:


> LOL, thanks!! The problem is with a big block is tool height though, I would need allot of big blocks to fit all the tools. Unless I machine a groove then just shim the cutter, but its nice to just be able to adjust the thumb knob to adjust height.



Maybe you misunderstand. You can make it the same height as your compound. Your AXA toolpost can also sit on the block (and rotate) for the time when you don't need compound action. I have that in one of the pics above.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 5, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Ya, maybe I'll have to get some transfer punches. The problem here in this situation is once I get the clamps drilled, is getting the holes in the right spot on the backing plate, hard to hold the clamps in the vise groove then transfer the hole, I guess I could maybe clamp the clamps to the vise then transfer the holes??





You can also make a more convenient template out of thinner material. Use that with transfer punches. Before cnc/dro I'd often set one hole and bolt everything together, then transfer the rest. The transfer punch is just a "fat" (right sized) center punch. You a then use a point wiggler in your drill press to find that indent center.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 5, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Maybe you misunderstand. You can make it the same height as your compound. Your AXA toolpost can also sit on the block (and rotate) for the time when you don't need compound action. I have that in one of the pics above.



Right!! Duuuuuu on my part. Couldn't see the forest through the trees!



Lakeside53 said:


> You can also make a more convenient template out of thinner material. Use that with transfer punches. Before cnc/dro I'd often set one hole and bolt everything together, then transfer the rest. The transfer punch is just a "fat" (right sized) center punch. You a then use a point wiggler in your drill press to find that indent center.



Yes, I don't have any transfer punches, I usually just mark through the hole with a drill. 

Thanks so much for the advice!


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 5, 2012)

Hey, aren't you supposed it be at work?!

You have a lathe - For "one off" you can make transfer punches in seconds. Even make the end point lightly hard with heating/oil cool if you use something like 1045. You can also make a drill guide for a small drill. Example, if you want to mark the center of a 3/8 hole, turn a piece of stock to 3/8 and drill a 1/16th hole though the center (lathe tail stock). Use machine length drills though.. not jobber. Now you can "mark" with a 1/16th drill (use the end you drilled for the contact side). Even soft steel will work well for a quite a few holes. 12L14 makes for very easy machining and drilling.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

'Nother Way;

Lay it out with your calipers. The lightly clamp it to the drillpress table. So you can tap it around. 

Put in a good sized center drill. 

Get the tip close to your crossed lines. 

Bring the quill down and "bump" the workpiece. 

Rotate 90 degrees. "Bump" again. 

You have a nice "X". 

Is it on the crossed lines? 

No?

Tap. Try again. Tighten clamps. Recheck. Drill


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 5, 2012)

Another tip. Don't leave G95 in the machine when you need G94. It will jack your world




Untitled by zweitakt250, on Flickr


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Another tip. Don't leave G95 in the machine when you need G94. It will jack your world
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Machinists don't need no stinkin' roller coasters. 


We got "Rapid Z" on a new program!!!!


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 5, 2012)

Hahaha! It wasn't even a Z move, I was going to make a slot cut to X+. Problem was 1444 revs at F10. I got that look on my face.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Hahaha! It wasn't even a Z move, I was going to make a slot cut to X+. Problem was 1444 revs at F10. I got that look on my face.



"That Look". LOL


----------



## parrisw (Sep 5, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Hey, aren't you supposed it be at work?!
> 
> You have a lathe - For "one off" you can make transfer punches in seconds. Even make the end point lightly hard with heating/oil cool if you use something like 1045. You can also make a drill guide for a small drill. Example, if you want to mark the center of a 3/8 hole, turn a piece of stock to 3/8 and drill a 1/16th hole though the center (lathe tail stock). Use machine length drills though.. not jobber. Now you can "mark" with a 1/16th drill (use the end you drilled for the contact side). Even soft steel will work well for a quite a few holes. 12L14 makes for very easy machining and drilling.



LOL ya I'm at work. Just grab a minute here and there to check the forum. I should just pick up a set of punches.


----------



## Mastermind (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm like a sponge.......quietly soaking this stuff up. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## nmurph (Sep 5, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm like a sponge.......quietly soaking this stuff up. :msp_thumbup:



Me too.... I just wish I understood enough to learn from what most of what is being posted in this thread. Have you ever been at a point where you don't know enough to ask questions to learn what it is that you don't know??? That's me and machining...it's all Greek, spoken in a Mandarin Chinese dialect, with an Aboriginal accent.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 5, 2012)

nmurph said:


> Me too.... I just wish I understood enough to learn from what most of what is being posted in this thread. Have you ever been at a point where you don't know enough to ask questions to learn what it is that you don't know??? That's me and machining...it's all Greek, spoken in a Mandarin Chinese dialect, with an Aboriginal accent.



LOL I'm barely above that level.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 5, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Another tip. Don't leave G95 in the machine when you need G94. It will jack your world
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I wish I didn't have any pictures like that:msp_rolleyes:

Machine : Warning, rapid Z and Table move. OK?
Me : Shutup, just do as I say. [stabs finger at button impatiently]
Machine: Ok, you're the boss

BOOM

Frigg.... damn machine didn't tell me there was a hardened steel clamp in the shortest path from current position to origin. And... BRAND NEW FIRST USE 6 flute 1 inch M42 EM.... Never got to cut even one chip.

CNC is a miserable way to learn how expensive tooling is.

304 Stainless and Carbide is even better... everything is going just fine... then it eats a chip; from the moment you see the red glow it's all over. I HATE stainless (most) slotting without coolent.

From another life I have a window sill of shame - burnt saw pistons. Now I have a box of busted carbide to remind me what a klutz I am.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 5, 2012)

I knocked a turret disk off a turret once. Till that day, I thought that was just a tall tale.


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## FATGUY (Sep 5, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Hahaha! It wasn't even a Z move, I was going to make a slot cut to X+. Problem was 1444 revs at F10. I got that look on my face.



Jeez, what kind of piss-ant cutters are you using that can't handle 10" per revolution :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I knocked a turret disk off a turret once. Till that day, I thought that was just a tall tale.



Saw the aftermath of a HEAVY cut with a large tool with a lot of relief into a piece of brass held in a large chuck........













Brass is soft and easy to cut...... Right?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I knocked a turret disk off a turret once. Till that day, I thought that was just a tall tale.



And it happens so fast......except in the flashbacks and night terrors.....


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 5, 2012)

I canceled the work shift when I put a new tool in, forgot to put it back in. Hit cycle start. Turret moved to Z0.0 and then came straight down in X onto the chuck at 100% rapid. Sheared the 6 10mm SHCS that secured the turret disk to the turret. Scared the #### out of me.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

Have you seen tapping 60RC material. Very cool.


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## FATGUY (Sep 5, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Have you seen tapping 60RC material. Very cool.



I have not, how in the world is that done?

just googled it, saw some thread mills, but I wouldn't want to be the one...


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I have not, how in the world is that done?
> 
> just googled it, saw some thread mills, but I wouldn't want to be the one...



Not thread mills. Taps. 

Guy said it was PF 9.5(Pucker Factor)

You can read the catalog and watch the video.......but when you hit the start button......

He said no scream from the metal. Just 16 or so holes one after the other. 

But when you think about it, I kinda makes sense. It cuts not push and tear. So no stretch and release to grab. 

Like making cuts in HSS or carbide.


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## FATGUY (Sep 5, 2012)

link?


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> link?



Searching now.....


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

Googled "tapping 60 RC"

Went to the PM links. 

OSG and Emuge both make the taps. 

I'm too stupid to post a link........sad ain't it.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 5, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Googled "tapping 60 RC"
> 
> Went to the PM links.
> 
> ...



So sad


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## FATGUY (Sep 5, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Googled "tapping 60 RC"
> 
> Went to the PM links.
> 
> ...



OSG's are my go to taps. Pretty much all I order unless I run into something a little more tricky, then it's Emuge.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> OSG's are my go to taps. Pretty much all I order unless I run into something a little more tricky, then it's Emuge.



Yup OSG are great. Emuge when u get into trouble. 


Link to your email.


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## FATGUY (Sep 5, 2012)

an excellent read. would repost here but that'd be a no-no.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> an excellent read. would repost here but that'd be a no-no.



KEWL read yourself. I Seen that stuff!!!!! Beautiful work.


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## blsnelling (Sep 5, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> an excellent read. would repost here but that'd be a no-no.



Don't see how they'd be labeled as a "green industry".


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## FATGUY (Sep 5, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> KEWL read yourself. I Seen that stuff!!!!! Beautiful work.



I get lucky every now and again...:msp_tongue:


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 5, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I get lucky every now and again...:msp_tongue:



Preprogramed luck......


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## Tzed250 (Sep 5, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I canceled the work shift when I put a new tool in, forgot to put it back in. Hit cycle start. Turret moved to Z0.0 and then came straight down in X onto the chuck at 100% rapid. Sheared the 6 10mm SHCS that secured the turret disk to the turret. Scared the #### out of me.



Nothing like an epic crash. Watching a new $750 carbide boring bar get blasted to bits is most impressive. It happens. It's part of the deal.

I know about the red glow Andy spoke of all to well...


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 5, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Nothing like an epic crash. Watching a new $750 carbide boring bar get blasted to bits is most impressive. It happens. It's part of the deal.
> *
> I know about the red glow Andy spoke of all to well*...



would that be like the one where the coolant hose came off an inserted, coolant-through 1.25" drill while it was plowing through 303 ss at 0.0075 IPR?


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## parrisw (Sep 8, 2012)

Ok, Brad you must of made some real chips by now!! Do tell.


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## parrisw (Sep 10, 2012)

Ok, since Brad is MIA, I guess I'll have to post something. Here is my milling attachment all finished up.




IMG_0592 by parrisw, on Flickr




IMG_0591 by parrisw, on Flickr

Quick test, chucked up some round stock and milled a flat. Seems to work well, and hold the piece much better then before.




IMG_0593 by parrisw, on Flickr


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## Rudolf73 (Sep 10, 2012)

Great job Will! That is one good looking mill setup


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## edisto (Sep 10, 2012)

Rudolf73 said:


> Great job Will! That is one good looking mill setup



Damn Will! I wish I had some skills...


----------



## dozerdan (Sep 10, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Ok, since Brad is MIA, I guess I'll have to post something. Here is my milling attachment all finished up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks good Will.

I guess I keep my JB Weld at the wrong place in my shop. I will try my chip pan, that way I can find it. LOL

Brad is busy playing with the new chisels I sent him.

Later
Dan


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## procarbine2k1 (Sep 10, 2012)

dozerdan said:


> Brad is busy playing with the new *chisels* I sent him.
> 
> Later
> Dan



lol


----------



## parrisw (Sep 10, 2012)

Rudolf73 said:


> Great job Will! That is one good looking mill setup





dozerdan said:


> Looks good Will.
> 
> I guess I keep my JB Weld at the wrong place in my shop. I will try my chip pan, that way I can find it. LOL
> 
> ...



Thanks guys. Took me much longer then I would of thought. But nobody said it was ever fast machining anything, especially on a light duty setup. Now what to make next!


----------



## parrisw (Sep 10, 2012)

edisto said:


> Damn Will! I wish I had some skills...



Well, I wouldn't consider myself very skilful in the machining department. You should see some of the stuff people make on a different forum, called shop made tools, very very cool!!


----------



## edisto (Sep 10, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Well, I wouldn't consider myself very skilful in the machining department. You should see some of the stuff people make on a different forum, called shop made tools, very very cool!!



Nonetheless, you do damn fine work.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 10, 2012)

edisto said:


> Nonetheless, you do damn fine work.



Well, thank ya very much.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 10, 2012)

Nice work!


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## blsnelling (Sep 10, 2012)

Post away Will. No tools here yet.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 10, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Nice work!



Thanks Andy! I still wish it were more rigid, however its better then it was before, and it'll have to do for now.



blsnelling said:


> Post away Will. No tools here yet.



I will, hope you get some tooling soon. You must be antsy to get going on it.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 10, 2012)

Also finished my boring bar this evening.

Drilled and tapped the two holes for the Socket Head Cap Screws, and De-burred the slot.







A slight improvement from what I was using before to cut squish bands.


----------



## OhioGregg (Sep 11, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Ok, since Brad is MIA, I guess I'll have to post something. Here is my milling attachment all finished up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thats one fine looking piece of machinery Will.:msp_thumbup: Unfortunatly, I don't have a clue what it is, or what its used for.  Guess thats why I don't own a lathe.

It has been interesting though, trying to follow this thread. Lots of great help & advice from the experts. Kind curious how quickly Brad gets up to speed with this venture. I'm sure it won't be long, with all the help here, and from an excellent mentor or tutoring from the big guy in black.:msp_thumbsup: living close by.


Gregg,


----------



## parrisw (Sep 11, 2012)

OhioGregg said:


> Thats one fine looking piece of machinery Will.:msp_thumbup: Unfortunatly, I don't have a clue what it is, or what its used for.  Guess thats why I don't own a lathe.
> 
> It has been interesting though, trying to follow this thread. Lots of great help & advice from the experts. Kind curious how quickly Brad gets up to speed with this venture. I'm sure it won't be long, with all the help here, and from an excellent mentor or tutoring from the big guy in black.:msp_thumbsup: living close by.
> 
> ...



Thanks.

The lathe is now a small milling machine. Just imagine a milling machine laying on its side.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 11, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Also finished my boring bar this evening.
> 
> Drilled and tapped the two holes for the Socket Head Cap Screws, and De-burred the slot.






OK, I said SHCS but unless recessed use set screws, or maybe you call them "grub screws" on your side of the border! You'll get a lot less swarf trapped and it will aid visability and clearance.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 11, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> OK, I said SHCS but unless recessed use set screws, or maybe you call them "grub screws" on your side of the border! You'll get a lot less swarf trapped and it will aid visability and clearance.



Yes my original plan was to use set screws, just didn't have any, so I'm going to pick some up still.

Thanks.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 11, 2012)

Dan, you are The Man, a most Dangerous Dan I got a nice assortment of tooling in the mail today. Thank you very much! It's time to start making some chips now.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 11, 2012)

*Please pass the dip!*

[video=youtube_share;egPEuhylTMo]http://youtu.be/egPEuhylTMo[/video]


----------



## Rudolf73 (Sep 11, 2012)

Very nice! Now you have probably done a lot of reading on lathes already but I would suggest (if you haven't done so already) you get a good book on lathes and tooling. Then use the recommend cutting tools on different the materials and see how they cut. Different angles on cutters will give you different results in different materials and will effect cutting speed and cut finish. But this is all part of the learning process. 

Get that lathe running already! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Sep 11, 2012)

Hey brad, when you get to know your way around that one, you may want to step up to one of these. 











This one belongs to my buddy that does our repairs and things. Can't remember the name on it now but it's about 14ft long. Freakin monster of a lathe. I'm sure some of the machinist here have seen bigger but it's the biggest I've ever seen. I also seen a Bald Eagle today, that was pretty cool.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 11, 2012)

Wow, that thing is HUGE!


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Sep 11, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Wow, that thing is HUGE!



Haha I know man. I could'nt believe it when I seen it. He had a chuck chucked up into a bigger chuck. The big chuck was about 30" across I'm guessing. He said he's loaded parts into it with a towmotor. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## parrisw (Sep 11, 2012)

Awesome Brad, that was very kind of Dan to do that. 

Now pay close attention to how he grinds the HSS bits, take a good pic for reference for when you need to regrind.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 11, 2012)

Shim the dam tool already!!!!! That's why a quick change is nice, no shimming needed.

Also if your using your compound to feed in each cut, don't put it on an angle like that, it renders your dials useless, if you move it .005" it isn't going in .005", it needs to be at 90*or parallel to your work.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 11, 2012)

Different strokes. 
I always leave the compound bottomed out and dial with the carriage for the amount I want.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 11, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Different strokes.
> I always leave the compound bottomed out and dial with the carriage for the amount I want.



Yes so do I. I was just saying if he wanted to do it that way. I have a indicator on the carriage so its much more accurate then the dial. I want to do away with the compound and just mount directly to the carriage so its much more rigid. I'd have to use the compound for some things, but most of the time it would be better without.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 11, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Yes so do I. I was just saying if he wanted to do it that way. I have a indicator on the carriage so its much more accurate then the dial. I want to do away with the compound and just mount directly to the carriage so its much more rigid. I'd have to use the compound for some things, but most of the time it would be better without.



Yeah I got that from your post. 

I was talking to B Rad. Just haven't found a 2x4 big enough to make him listen. LOL

Timing just made it sound that way.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 11, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Yeah I got that from your post.
> 
> I was talking to B Rad. Just haven't found a 2x4 big enough to make him listen. LOL
> 
> Timing just made it sound that way.



Well that's your problem then. 2x4's are only so big, maybe you need to step it up to a 2x10!


----------



## Jim Timber (Sep 12, 2012)

My compound and CXA don't flex, but I always used the cross slide to move the tool except for threading.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 12, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Shim the dam tool already!!!!! That's why a quick change is nice, no shimming needed.
> 
> Also if your using your compound to feed in each cut, don't put it on an angle like that, it renders your dials useless, if you move it .005" it isn't going in .005", it needs to be at 90*or parallel to your work.





HUH? Not useless but you have to be able to divide by 2 or other really complicated numbers, like 10:msp_ohmy:

If your compound is set to 30 degrees... Moving it one thou means it acually moves 0.5 thou to the work. Why, easy... sine (30) = 0.5

If your compound is graduated in thou, and you want it to read 10ths, that's dead easy. Set it to the 5.73917 degrees... Sine (5.73917) is 0.1

How do you set it to 5.7391 degrees? Use a sine bar, or a little trial and error and a micrometer. And of course, if you are shaving 10ths, forget carbide.


Personally, apart from threading (sometimes), for calibated (dial) tiny increments, for for profiling my compound is pretty much ignored.


----------



## srcarr52 (Sep 12, 2012)

Brad, putting the tool at a more shallow angle will help your finish a lot but you can't expect a great finish on a cast piston using a small rake carbide. You'll need the hook of a CCGT insert or high speed steel with a large rake. 



Jim Timber said:


> My compound and CXA don't flex, but I always used the cross slide to move the tool except for threading.



I too only use the compound for threading or to put a bevel on something. A dial indicator for the carriage makes life so much better but not as nice as a DRO would.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 12, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> My compound and CXA don't flex, but I always used the cross slide to move the tool except for threading.




I use CXA tooling on a very rigid lathe. Unless the material is difficult, thin section or other such issues, on greater than say 13tpi I just use the cross slide and plunge my threads.

On a light lathe, definitely use the compound with 29-29.5 setover for threading, and plunge only the last few thou for cleanup.


----------



## Nitroman (Sep 12, 2012)

Brad,

For aluminum kerosene, and mineral oil are good cutting lubes.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 12, 2012)

Only use carbide. Manual lathe. Have to split thousandths all the time in all materials. 

6 TPI, no compound, no problems. ID and OD. 

I don't understand the no carbine rule.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 12, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> HUH? Not useless but you have to be able to divide by 2 or other really complicated numbers, like 10:msp_ohmy:
> 
> If your compound is set to 30 degrees... Moving it one thou means it acually moves 0.5 thou to the work. Why, easy... sine (30) = 0.5
> 
> ...



LOL, I know there is a way with the math, but I wasn't going there. Who knows what his angle was??? I just saw him list he was taking a .005" cut and saw he was feeding the compound and thought, I bet its not a .005" cut.


----------



## Jim Timber (Sep 12, 2012)

Yeah, I forgot about cutting tapers without a taper attachment for the cross slide. I do that very infrequently with what I make. Dead center points and yes, an occasional bevel (I usually just use the edge of a tool for that) are good uses.

I learned threading @ 29.5 degrees, but there's no reason to use it if you don't have/want to. I do it because it's second nature and I get the results I want. CNC's go straight in, because you're right - they don't need to come in at an angle. The angle does help clear chips by only cutting on one side of the tool, and prevents galling/tears in softer metals.


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## Tzed250 (Sep 12, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> Yeah, I forgot about cutting tapers without a taper attachment for the cross slide. I do that very infrequently with what I make. Dead center points and yes, an occasional bevel (I usually just use the edge of a tool for that) are good uses.
> 
> I learned threading @ 29.5 degrees, but there's no reason to use it if you don't have/want to. I do it because it's second nature and I get the results I want. CNC's go straight in, because you're right - they don't need to come in at an angle. The angle does help clear chips by only cutting on one side of the tool, and prevents galling/tears in softer metals.





CNC turning centers only move straight in if they don't have advanced threading. An Okuma or other better machines thread by alternating cutting the front and backside of the lead. An excellent way to thread as both sides of the insert are used, but not at the same time. This leads to better accuracy and finishes.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 12, 2012)

parrisw said:


> LOL, I know there is a way with the math, but I wasn't going there.




It's good to remember the 30 (or a little bit less if you do it that way) degree and 0.5 setup - that way you know how deep you are proceeding into a thread cut - just half of what you see on the dial, or just call the dial reading "diameter reduction" (but only at 30 degrees!). Very useful if you are using a thread mic.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 12, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Only use carbide. Manual lathe. Have to split thousandths all the time in all materials.
> 
> 6 TPI, no compound, no problems. ID and OD.
> 
> I don't understand the no carbine rule.



Can 
Not sure if you were refering to me, but I was"shaving 10ths", not splitting thou  Can you can shave a few 10ths in say 304 stainless with the type of carbide Brad has, or with most common inserts with min doc in excess of 3-4 thou? I can, but I prefer to cut it rather than rub it off. :msp_wink:

I can cut all thread by just plunging, but my 16ER inserts would much rather run at speed, not at 28-180 rpm I typically thread at. The life is extended dramatically if I cut with the compound on larger threads. At the price I have to pay, I hate cruching the tips off.

Brad - to use your that carbide you should invest in a tool grinder (Baldor 500 or Chinese copy) and fit it with a diamond wheel (not CBN). I have a Baldor with a Diamond on one side, and CBN on the other (for HSS). Get a strong loupe to inspect the tips and edges. It's much harder to get a good edge on carbide (or at least, one that will last) than HSS.


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## parrisw (Sep 12, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> It's good to remember the 30 (or a little bit less if you do it that way) degree and 0.5 setup - that way you know how deep you are proceeding into a thread cut - just half of what you see on the dial, or just call the dial reading "diameter reduction" (but only at 30 degrees!). Very useful if you are using a thread mic.



Yes. However I haven't tried threading much, only a couple times, with no success.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 12, 2012)

Not picking on anyone Lake;

I cut tenths too. Most all my work is .001 total tolerance. .002 when bigger. But when iris 9" long bore and the machine is 40 years old plus Monel or Hastalloy one tends to get intimate with types of inserts. LOL

Coatings is one thing that can caus chatter. Coated carbide has a radius on the edge. Carbide can be razor sharp. Diamonds too. 

.0005 total tolerance on fits a foot apart with a TIR of .0005 and you use the the best cutter. Carbide is what is used. Diamonds when .000001 is needed.


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## lps8 (Sep 13, 2012)

*confused*

I am confused by the reference to the compound feed. The way I saw it, the cross feed was used, not the compound feed. The angle of the cutting tool may not be right, but it will move straight in. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

I'm finding all this interesting as I have a mill and a lathe and am learning by doing. I have some photos to post on some machine work on a 272 cylinder that I did a little different where I cut the squish and base on the same setup. I just haven't had much time as I'm still trying to finish our house.

Larry


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## Jim Timber (Sep 13, 2012)

Carbide cutters are no different than saw chains in a lot of ways - you can have a razor sharp edge that cuts great for a short period but dulls quickly (chisel), or you can have a sort of duller tooth (semi chisel) that stays roughly the same forever.

If you want that razor edge, you aren't going to get it with the standard sintered carbide as it comes out of the molds (coating or not - they just aren't that kind of "sharp" as they're formed, it's simply a process issue with how they're made). You're going to need to lap it on a diamond wheel, or buy one that's been lapped from the get-go.

If you do end up doing a lot of manual threading, I highly recommend the aloris threading tool that uses a big chunk of HSS where you simply dress off the top edge to sharpen it (the cutter looks like an axe blade). I've had mine for several years and find it's awesome for both finish quality and longevity.


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## Tzed250 (Sep 13, 2012)

Carbide inserts do not "cut" in way we are used to thinking about cutting. It is more a process of pushing the metal off of the part. The cutting action actually begins well above the edge, and the insert ends up using the metal to cut itself. This is one of many reasons why the inserts last so long and why they don't have to be "sharp" in the first place.


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## blsnelling (Sep 13, 2012)

Any last minute suggestions before I buy this QCTP?

Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store: Quick Change Tool Post Sets - Wedge Type,Quick Change Tool Posts and Holders


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## srcarr52 (Sep 13, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Carbide inserts do not "cut" in way we are used to thinking about cutting. It is more a process of pushing the metal off of the part. The cutting action actually begins well above the edge, and the insert ends up using the metal to cut itself. This is one of many reasons why the inserts last so long and why they don't have to be "sharp" in the first place.



It depends on the type of insert. A CCGT 32.52 has a really sharp edge and can take a pretty small cut contrary to what has been said on this thread.

Here is one taking 0.001" cut. Sorry I had to stop the cut to take the picture for fear of crashing waiting for the iPhone to snap the picture. It was taking tiny curls off but they blow away as soon as they break off.






These inserts are supposed to be for aluminum and cast steel but I find they work well on finish cuts for most steel.


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## parrisw (Sep 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Any last minute suggestions before I buy this QCTP?
> 
> Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store: Quick Change Tool Post Sets - Wedge Type,Quick Change Tool Posts and Holders



Nope go for it, just make sure you get the AXA size. They work well, you may want to order a few extra holders, I ended up picking up a few more off ebay.


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## Tzed250 (Sep 13, 2012)

The high positive rake inserts will take a very small DOC, but they are the exception rather than the rule in indexable carbide.


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## blsnelling (Sep 13, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Nope go for it, just make sure you get the AXA size. They work well, you may want to order a few extra holders, I ended up picking up a few more off ebay.



Out of stock


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## blsnelling (Sep 13, 2012)

Is a Phase II QCTP a better unit? Buy 251-100 Phase II Quick-Change Tool Post Sets from UseEnco


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## srcarr52 (Sep 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Is a Phase II QCTP a better unit? Buy 251-100 Phase II Quick-Change Tool Post Sets from UseEnco



I think you'll be happier with the PhaseII Chinese QCTP than the no name Chinese one. Also AXA size QCTP go for pretty cheap on eBay. Alloris or Dorian brands are the best quality.

Aloris AXA Quick Change Tool Post with Holders, knurl, cutoff, threader ,... | eBay


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## Tzed250 (Sep 13, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Is a Phase II QCTP a better unit? Buy 251-100 Phase II Quick-Change Tool Post Sets from UseEnco



Looks better to me.


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## srcarr52 (Sep 13, 2012)

Brad, the 251-111 is the wedge post and is even cheaper.

Buy 251-111 Phase II Quick-Change Tool Post Sets from UseEnco


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## blsnelling (Sep 13, 2012)

srcarr52 said:


> Brad, the 251-111 is the wedge post and is even cheaper.
> 
> Buy 251-111 Phase II Quick-Change Tool Post Sets from UseEnco


Thank you. I want the wedge type and didn't realize the other wasn't.


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## Jim Timber (Sep 13, 2012)

srcarr52 said:


> It depends on the type of insert. A CCGT 32.52 has a really sharp edge and can take a pretty small cut contrary to what has been said on this thread.
> 
> Here is one taking 0.001" cut. Sorry I had to stop the cut to take the picture for fear of crashing waiting for the iPhone to snap the picture. It was taking tiny curls off but they blow away as soon as they break off.
> 
> ...



You have WAY too much stick out on that holder.

Lathes don't "cut" - they shear the metal. As someone else said, it happens at a point above the cutter, even with razor sharp HSS. It's a geometry issue with how the work interfaces with the cutter, has nothing to do with the sharpness of the tool.


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## srcarr52 (Sep 13, 2012)

Jim Timber said:


> You have WAY too much stick out on that holder.
> 
> Lathes don't "cut" - they shear the metal. As someone else said, it happens at a point above the cutter, even with razor sharp HSS. It's a geometry issue with how the work interfaces with the cutter, has nothing to do with the sharpness of the tool.



Yeah, it's far out there, but you can get away with it when you are cutting something 3/8" thick like I am. It's far out so I can pull the tool holder off the toolpost and put the tailstock past it to thread that little spar without having to back the cross way out. Saves some time when making 10 of those little bastards. What you can't see is I have a dial indicator on the front side of the toolpost so I can drop the tool back in and cut the next part without measuring. Using this method they were all within 0.001" on the diameter.


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## blsnelling (Sep 14, 2012)

I really liked the Phase II one but couldn't pass up the price on this one. It is a wedge type for only $107! I ordered it last night and it's already shipped. Quick Change Tool Post Set, AXA:Amazon:Home Improvement


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 14, 2012)

When you get it, take the tool post apart and clean out the old pork fat used to "lubricate" the assembly grit. Check for burrs and for whatever shouldn't be in there. Just for grins I took one apart over a clean container of solvent. LOL... you can't believe the carp that I collected. The center post hole in mine looked like it was bored by and hand drill, with a busted drill bit. After a little hand work to beburr the worm it worked fine.

BTW, the Knurler they include with the set is is pretty much useless.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 14, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> The high positive rake inserts will take a very small DOC, but they are the exception rather than the rule in indexable carbide.



And... the issue will often be surface finish quality. Even though some inserts can skim a thou, most don't realize that the minimum DOC is probably 2-3 in soft steel. 1 thou may seem like a good measurement target, but if you are fitting bearings or making sliding shafts, that's like a mile, particularly if you are measuring against a 1-2 thou "rough" surface". If I miss a target measurement, emery paper (careful!) is a great way to sneak on on a final (external) fit. I have on occasion used razor sharp aluminum cutting inserts on steel, but eventually regret it when yet another insert edge crumples way. It's a bit like using $5 bills to light the BBQ - sure they work, but...:msp_wink:

For those with light lathes, get some 12L14 steel for turning projects. It contains a small amount of lead and turns like butter. You can skim very small amounts and still have a mirror finish. It was once referred to to as "screw cutter steel"


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## FATGUY (Sep 14, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> And... the issue will often be surface finish quality. Even though some inserts can skim a thou, most don't realize that the minimum DOC is probably 2-3 in soft steel. 1 thou may seem like a good measurement target, but if you are fitting bearings or making sliding shafts, that's like a mile, particularly if you are measuring against a 1-2 thou "rough" surface".* If I miss a target measurement, emery paper (careful!) is a great way to sneak on on a final (external) fit.* I have on occasion used razor sharp aluminum cutting inserts on steel, but eventually regret it when yet another insert edge crumples way. It's a bit like using $5 bills to light the BBQ - sure they work, but...:msp_wink:
> 
> For those with light lathes, get some 12L14 steel for turning projects. It contains a small amount of lead and turns like butter. You can skim very small amounts and still have a mirror finish. It was once referred to to as "screw cutter steel"



Bingo.


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## belgian (Sep 14, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> For those with light lathes, get some 12L14 steel for turning projects. It contains a small amount of lead and turns like butter. You can skim very small amounts and still have a mirror finish. It was once referred to to as "screw cutter steel"



I have been following this thread with great interest ; not only because I acquired a small lathe lately myself, but I also sell german bar peeling machines used in the bright steel industry for a living. Bar peeling lines remove the outer skin of rolled bars, to ensure that the surface is free of microcracks and decarburisation zone ; in fact they are centerless bar turners that use typically a tooling head with 4 carbide cutters and hence have a high output, while achieving diameter tolerances typically up to IT9. 

The bright steel industry uses a multitude of steel grades, all the way up to Ni-based alloys and Titanium for a wide variety of industries and applications. As Lake already indicated, each material has its own tooling properties and requires its own set of carbide cutters and machine settings (rpm, linear speed). 

12L14 is designed as free cutting steel, and because of its lead content, very suitable and popular for free cutting or machining on a lathe. Good advice Lake (as usual, hehe) :msp_wink:


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## Tzed250 (Sep 14, 2012)

Boring inserts like the CCMT have an ideal DOC for a finishing cut, many times around 200 microns-.008" Anything less and you risk moving the cutting zone to close to the edge resulting in tearing or pushing.


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## Nitroman (Sep 15, 2012)

I have been looking at boring bars using the CCMT inserts, but lean toward the HSS old-fashioned kind simply because all I have to do is grind a new edge rather than send out inserts to be reconditioned.

There are so many choices out there it is almost ridiculous.


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## Tzed250 (Sep 15, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> I have been looking at boring bars using the CCMT inserts, but lean toward the HSS old-fashioned kind simply because all I have to do is grind a new edge rather than send out inserts to be reconditioned.
> 
> There are so many choices out there it is almost ridiculous.





For non-production machining, HSS is excellent tooling. If you use a chainsaw, you should know how to sharpen chain. If you run a lathe you should know how to sharpen a cutting tool.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 15, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> For non-production machining, HSS is excellent tooling. If you use a chainsaw, you should know how to sharpen chain. If you run a lathe you should know how to sharpen a cutting tool.



Agree totally. 

When I started in the tool and die shop, you started on the Hardinge Chucker. 

You had to fill, and I mean fill, drawers with progressive draw die blanks. 

Boring as the devil. 

You got off when the drawers were full. 

You learned to sharpen tools better. Avoid extra steps.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 15, 2012)

One thing nobody has posted... grinding carbide is a great way to shorten your life. If you do grind it, do it outside AND wear a respirator. If you get carbide binder dust in your shop you cannot easily get rid of it, but it will find you when (if) you clean up.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 15, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> For non-production machining, HSS is excellent tooling. If you use a chainsaw, you should know how to sharpen chain. If you run a lathe you should know how to sharpen a cutting tool.




Amen!


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 15, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> One thing nobody has posted... grinding carbide is a great way to shorten your life. If you do grind it, do it outside AND wear a respirator. If you get carbide binder dust in your ship you cannot easily get rid of it, but it will find you when (if) you clean up.



Good point Andy. 

I grind it wet. Nasty and dirty and gross. But keeps it out of your nose!


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## Tzed250 (Sep 15, 2012)

That's why carbide comes into the shop with an MSDS.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 15, 2012)

But does it come into Brad's shop?  :msp_mellow: :msp_confused:

Seriously.. sure, it's well known in industry, but how many newbie home shops understand the follies of grinding of carbide?


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## blsnelling (Sep 15, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> But does it come into Brad's shop?  :msp_mellow: :msp_confused:
> 
> Seriously.. sure, it's well known in industry, but how many newbie home shops understand the follies of grinding of carbide?



You are correct. I would not have known.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> You are correct. I would not have known.




Oh.. same with grinding carbide saw chain!


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## blsnelling (Sep 15, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Oh.. same with grinding carbide saw chain!



I do have a diamond grinding wheel, but have never used it. I've never used any of the carbide chains.


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## parrisw (Sep 15, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> But does it come into Brad's shop?  :msp_mellow: :msp_confused:
> 
> Seriously.. sure, it's well known in industry, but how many newbie home shops understand the follies of grinding of carbide?



Thanks for posting that lake, I never knew that. Really appreciate it!!!!!


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## Tzed250 (Sep 16, 2012)

As we're on the subject of safety...Brad I believe I've seen a few vids of you running saws with no eye protection. I hope you will not even turn the power on for the lathe without eye protection. Suffice it to say that any lathe is capable of producing projectiles that will take your vision from you.


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## parrisw (Sep 16, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> As we're on the subject of safety...Brad I believe I've seen a few vids of you running saws with no eye protection. I hope you will not even turn the power on for the lathe without eye protection. Suffice it to say that any lathe is capable of producing projectiles that will take your vision from you.



Guilty as charged. I'm kinda bad for that. But that is solid advice. I should know better seeing what I do for a living. I've had a piece of metal embedded in my eye before, and I can honestly say its not a pleasant experience. Took two days to deal with it, first day they had to extract the metal from my eye, go home with a patch, second day had to spend hours waiting at the eye specialist to remove the "rust ring" from my eye, very unpleasant to have someone grinding on your eye, and I'm not even kidding, they use a small burr grinder and grind the stuff out of your eye.


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## Tzed250 (Sep 16, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Guilty as charged. I'm kinda bad for that. But that is solid advice. I should know better seeing what I do for a living. I've had a piece of metal embedded in my eye before, and I can honestly say its not a pleasant experience. Took two days to deal with it, first day they had to extract the metal from my eye, go home with a patch, second day had to spend hours waiting at the eye specialist to remove the "rust ring" from my eye, very unpleasant to have someone grinding on your eye, and I'm not even kidding, they use a small burr grinder and grind the stuff out of your eye.



I know Will, I've been there. I had a piece of cast iron embedded in my cornea. It got there even though I was wearing safety glasses while I was cutting it. Some of the most excruciating pain I have ever dealt with. Having someone use a porting tool on your eyeball is not so much fun.


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## parrisw (Sep 16, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> I know Will, I've been there. I had a piece of cast iron embedded in my cornea. It got there even though I was wearing safety glasses while I was cutting it. Some of the most excruciating pain I have ever dealt with. Having someone use a porting tool on your eyeball is not so much fun.



Yup, I was even wearing eye protection at the time it happened to me, just goes to show you your never 100% safe.


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## LegDeLimber (Sep 16, 2012)

years ago, Got a metal speck in one eye, while bandsawing something.
Was wearing basic safety glasses, but sometimes it still finds a way in.
And yeah that DR picking it out (little ting, ting, ting noises coming through sinuses to ears) and then bout 45 mins later sanding it smooth with a glorified "dremal"
does sorta pucker ya backside.


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## Tzed250 (Sep 16, 2012)

I don't care to repeat the experience anytime soon.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 16, 2012)

Remember to tell your doctor (put in your records) that your are machining. If you need a cat scan you'll first need any x-ray of your eyes. Unknown (yep, many you do not even feel) tiny pieces of embedded metal tear through the eyes when exposed to the strong magnetic fields of the scanner. Hey... maybe I should get a cat scan to rip all the metal out of my hands!

Both the lathe and mill are are miserable for throwing chips everywhere. In the past two days I've removed about 120 cubic inches of steel from a part I'm making. Everything within 5 feet is inches deep in nasty blue curled razor sharp chips that were HOT while flying. Only a dozen or so got me on my bare arms 

I've had some nice "spring" like burns from my lathe curly chips - short sections say 1 inch tightly spiraled that slam on to your skin and STICK . I hate that especially when it's on your neck. So... if that hot spring hits your eye, you'll lose it.

Glasses work, but for some work a full industrial face mask (the round flip-up version) works better.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 16, 2012)

Blue chips, up your shirt sleeve, while holding the feed lever, on a finish cut, near the face you are rapidly approaching..........


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## Tzed250 (Sep 16, 2012)

Like this. Happened last week. I was more than 15' away from the cutter, but it was over 7' up on a part. Chip had plenty of time to cool before it got to me, and it still got me good. Imagine if it was your eye. 




Untitled by zweitakt250, on Flickr


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 16, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Like this. Happened last week. I was more than 15' away from the cutter, but it was over 7' up on a part. Chip had plenty of time to cool before it got to me, and it still got me good. Imagine if it was your eye.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Off the new boring mill?


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## Tzed250 (Sep 16, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Off the new boring mill?



Exactly. What is amazing is when you are close enough to the cutting that the chips bounce off of you instead of sticking, but you can still smell the singed flesh from the microsecond of contact.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 16, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Exactly. What is amazing is when you are close enough to the cutting that the chips bounce off of you instead of sticking, but you can still smell the singed flesh from the microsecond of contact.



Yeah. We have a big G & L. Well not REAL big. But poured over 80 yards of concrete over unknown tons of rebar when we put it in. 

Hogging on the W&S 3A.......melting holes in jackets, shoelaces,hair, lunch cooler, phone......you learn!

And the blue chips steaming and piling inches deep and have enough coolant in the chip pan too keep the steam down.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 16, 2012)

We got floor mats made for a weld shop. Put them over regular mats. No more burnt holes in mats and easy on the feet!!


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## belgian (Sep 16, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Like this. Happened last week. I was more than 15' away from the cutter, but it was over 7' up on a part. Chip had plenty of time to cool before it got to me, and it still got me good. Imagine if it was your eye.



I remember visiting an equipment fair in Hannover a few years back. A dutch manuafacterer was demonstrating a multiple boring unit for drilling holes in I beams, with the security doors open. As buystanders watched the demo, including myself, something hit me straight on the nose. Turned out ot be a hot sharp chip that left me with a bleeding wound. Machine was shut down immediately and the dutch owner begged me not to report it to fair security for the risk of getting banned from the fair. Can't imagine if that chip had hit somebody in the eye....


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 16, 2012)

belgian said:


> I remember visiting an equipment fair in Hannover a few years back. A dutch manuafacterer was demonstrating a multiple boring unit for drilling holes in I beams, with the security doors open. As buystanders watched the demo, including myself, something hit me straight on the nose. Turned out ot be a hot sharp chip that left me with a bleeding wound. Machine was shut down immediately and the dutch owner begged me not to report it to fair security for the risk of getting banned from the fair. Can't imagine if that chip had hit somebody in the eye....



At Westec one year a lathe demo. .5 DOC .060 feed. 

Perfect freemachining stuff of course. 

But sounded like a 50 cal on the cabinet!!

Got everybody's attention!!


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## procarbine2k1 (Sep 20, 2012)

Make anything lately Brad? Still waiting on my Logan to be rebuilt, Ineed to put the hustle on my friend so I can get it in the shop!


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## FATGUY (Sep 20, 2012)

well, someone may have been down to the shop to pick up a few tools.....


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## Nitroman (Sep 20, 2012)

Don't now about anyone else but I've "picked up a few tools":

Boring bar holder (two different types), selection of boring bars (HSS), tool-holders, rockers, spare lantern-style tool post set, HSS tool-bits, MT3 to MT2 spindle reducer, NOS (!) Skinner 6" 4-jaw independent chuck, H-10 carriage stop, 3C handwheel collet closer set (gotta look into the lever-closer and collets)...

Also want to get a dividing head with tailstock but the one I want is $400.00, but man it'll cut those degrees! And for my Christmas present I am going to buy myself a Buck 6-jaw Adjust-Tru. Haven't decided on 5" or 6" yet.


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## Jim Timber (Sep 20, 2012)

It's too bad you're so far north Nitroman, a super spacer is what you really want. They're expensive though! I got mine barely used, and it didn't come with a tailstock. Been about 6 years now, still haven't made one for it either. If I was cutting flutes in rifle barrels, it would be mandatory, but I haven't done that yet.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 20, 2012)

For most work an indexer will cover your bases. 

Get a real quality one a lot cheaper. Add a soft plate and most odd work is possible.


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## Nitroman (Sep 20, 2012)

The one I want looks extremely similar to this:

Hemingway Kits Versatile Dividing Head and Accessories

And is sold by RDG Tools out of the UK. I have an Atlas mill, this only has an 8" by 18" table. The RDG unit will do anything and even fits on my mill. I do not plan on using it for anything big, but making small gears is something I want to do. I have some ideas for things.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Sep 20, 2012)

WoW! I'm surprised at the amount of machining knowledge this group has!


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 20, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> The one I want looks extremely similar to this:
> 
> Hemingway Kits Versatile Dividing Head and Accessories
> 
> And is sold by RDG Tools out of the UK. I have an Atlas mill, this only has an 8" by 18" table. The RDG unit will do anything and even fits on my mill. I do not plan on using it for anything big, but making small gears is something I want to do. I have some ideas for things.



An indexer uses that takes 5C is handy. 
A 24 plate covers 2,3,4,6,8,12, and 24 splits. 

I've gotten Hardinge indexers for less than $100 on the bay.


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## blsnelling (Sep 20, 2012)

Here are some pics of tonight's little project. I didn't take them while I actually did the work, so these were all staged afterwards to show what I did.

The job was to take the T-bracket that held the tool post onto the cross slide. It originally was 10mm and I needed it to be 9/16" for the new QCTP. So, a stop by Nik's shop was in order on the way home from work. 






I used a drill with a MT2 taper, sized up with a MT2 to MT3 adapter. This fit into my tailstock. For the actually work I chucked up the T-bracket in my 4-jaw chuck, later removed.










I don't yet have a chuck to hold Nik's countersink bit, so I simply used a larger bit with a MT3 taper. Talk about a big drill bit!










I then snugged the 9/16-18 tap between the T-bracket and a dead center in the end of the tap. I'd make a 1/4 turn of the tap, then snug the center back up against it. It worked beautifully. I was done all too soon. Yes, it was a simple job, but it was pretty cool to be able to do something like this in my own basement.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Sep 20, 2012)

yeah baby!!!!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 21, 2012)

Your care package goes out tomorrow.


----------



## lmbrman (Sep 21, 2012)

Good move buying a lathe Brad, and great bunch here on AS givin pointers


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## Tzed250 (Sep 21, 2012)

Big drill bit...:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 21, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Big drill bit...:hmm3grin2orange:



Ditto. Giggle. Giggle.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 21, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Big drill bit...:hmm3grin2orange:





Stihl 041S said:


> Ditto. Giggle. Giggle.



Big in my world


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Sep 21, 2012)

Hey Brad, now you can do a cylinder like they're suppose to be done.......and charge less money!!!!......Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## indiansprings (Sep 21, 2012)

May be a small thing, but to go along with the eye protection, realize the soles of your footwear will fill with hundreds of these sharp little chips, since your doing it in your home, you don't want to get on the wife's bad side and walk across hardwood or laminate floors, they are just like little razor blades and will tear the hell out of the finish, mine come off as soon as I walk in from the shop.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 21, 2012)

Finally, I'm using the lathe to do what I bought it for. The subject is a 395XP. It turned out fantastic. I cut a .035" popup on the piston, then removed .040" from the cylinder base, resulting in a squish of .020 without a gasket.

Cutting the mandrel took the longest. This was the first time I've tried cutting steel. It actually went quite well. Once done, the base of the cylinder dialed in at about .0005".


----------



## tlandrum (Sep 21, 2012)

you need some pvc to make mandrels from. it works well and is easy to work with


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 21, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> you need some pvc to make mandrels from. it works well and is easy to work with



Are you using the Type II PVC? I read that it's more durable.


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 21, 2012)

Brad, shorten your setup. Way too much stick out from the chuck. Enough material to go to the squish band, enough to go in the chuck, and enough room to get the tool to the part. Any more is weakening the setup which will lead to difficulty cutting the work piece, or levering it out of the chuck. Short is strong, strong is good.


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## FATGUY (Sep 21, 2012)

well done Brad!


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 21, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Brad, shorten your setup. Way too much stick out from the chuck. Enough material to go to the squish band, enough to go in the chuck, and enough room to get the tool to the part. Any more is weakening the setup which will lead to difficulty cutting the work piece, or levering it out of the chuck. Short is strong, strong is good.



Thanks John. I appreciate the tips from all of you guys.


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 21, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks John. I appreciate the tips from all of you guys.



No problem. Feels good to cut the metal yourself, huh?


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 21, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> No problem. Feels good to cut the metal yourself, huh?



It really does.


----------



## Mastermind (Sep 21, 2012)

That's so last year.......popups are out of fashion ya know. 



Just funning you Brad. I'm curious though......what did you support the tail end of the mandrel with when you were cutting it?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 21, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Brad, shorten your setup. Way too much stick out from the chuck. Enough material to go to the squish band, enough to go in the chuck, and enough room to get the tool to the part. Any more is weakening the setup which will lead to difficulty cutting the work piece, or levering it out of the chuck. Short is strong, strong is good.




Ditto. All I thought was "hangin out a frickin mile"


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 21, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Brad, shorten your setup. Way too much stick out from the chuck. Enough material to go to the squish band, enough to go in the chuck, and enough room to get the tool to the part. Any more is weakening the setup which will lead to difficulty cutting the work piece, or levering it out of the chuck. Short is strong, strong is good.



I'm to blame for that, I gave him a piece of material that was longer than it needed to be. You can always take more off, hard to go the other way.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 21, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Ditto. All I thought was "hangin out a frickin mile"



But 30,000 hrs on a lathe and you notice these little things. 

I've done worse when learning!!!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 21, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I'm to blame for that, I gave him a piece of material that was longer than it needed to be. You can always take more off, hard to go the other way.



The things one doesn't think about after a while. 

On the other hand, Brad said there is a use for the function keys on a keyboard....

I've never used them......


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 21, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> The things one doesn't think about after a while.
> 
> On the other hand, Brad said there is a use for the function keys on a keyboard....
> 
> I've never used them......




Things to learn;

Liquid nitrogen to shrink a bearing right. Not always. Sometimes it ends up a different size. The wrong size....


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 21, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I'm to blame for that, I gave him a piece of material that was longer than it needed to be. You can always take more off, *hard to go the other way*.



Sometimes impossible. When I worked my first job we had two CNC bandsaws. Operators on second shift would set them to run unmanned until first shift got there in the morning. Quite a sight to see thousands of dollars worth of bar stock cut up into piston blanks that were 3mm too short.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 21, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Sometimes impossible. When I worked my first job we had two CNC bandsaws. Operators on second shift would set them to run unmanned until first shift got there in the morning. Quite a sight to see thousands of dollars worth of bar stock cut up into piston blanks that were 3mm too short.



That sight can make you weak in the knee's. Automation is certainly not without it's consequences. I worked in the blow mold industry when I lived back home. "Lights-Out" machining was a way of life. Load the tombstones up on multi pallet machines and hit cycle start on your way out Friday night. Monday morning either looks like carnage, or pure profit. You get away with it enough times and you're still ahead after a bad weekend. Interestingly though, I saw a machine at IMTS that would check tool height before it put the tool away. If it was different than when it started, it would stop the machine from continuing. No more broke the cdrill which broke the tap drill, which broke the countersink which broke the thread mill/tap. Pretty cool stuff, don't know how new that is, I just hadn't seen it before.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 21, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Sometimes impossible. When I worked my first job we had two CNC bandsaws. Operators on second shift would set them to run unmanned until first shift got there in the morning. Quite a sight to see thousands of dollars worth of bar stock cut up into piston blanks that were 3mm too short.



Or screw up a casting you have been waiting 8 months for.....


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 22, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Or screw up a casting you have been waiting 8 months for.....



that casting was screwed up long before it got to me..... :msp_tongue:





(sorry, reflex)


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 22, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> That's so last year.......popups are out of fashion ya know.
> 
> 
> 
> Just funning you Brad. I'm curious though......what did you support the tail end of the mandrel with when you were cutting it?



he was probably right in that area where you're not sure if you'll need the tailstock or not. The rule of thumb I use is if I have more than 3 X Diameter outside the chuck, I'll watch carefully to see if I need the tailstock or not. You can sometimes get away with more...


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 22, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> that casting was screwed up long before it got to me..... :msp_tongue:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Our motto is:'as long as there is weld wire, nothing is scrap !


----------



## parrisw (Sep 22, 2012)

Brad, just me, but I always machine enough off to run a gasket. I feel better with a gasket in there.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Sep 22, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Brad, just me, but I always machine enough off to run a gasket. I feel better with a gasket in there.



I felt the same way until I was forced to use sealant a few times, I no longer have any issue running without a gasket. The modern sealants are awesome!!


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 22, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Brad, just me, but I always machine enough off to run a gasket. I feel better with a gasket in there.



Will, I'm usually of the same opinion, but I think Brad made the right call here to get where he wanted to be. If you look at the pics you can see the base is getting quite thin under the pocketed base bolts. Anther .02-.025" to get the gasket in there and it may have weakened the base enough to cause problems. I would assume Husqvarna is using paper gaskets on these saws, which due to the compressibility of paper would possibly lead to cracking of the cylinder base.


----------



## Mastermind (Sep 22, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Brad, just me, but I always machine enough off to run a gasket. I feel better with a gasket in there.



You need some base gaskets Will?????? I have several dozen Stihl base gaskets I was fixing to throw away. :msp_sneaky:



Tzed250 said:


> Will, I'm usually of the same opinion, but I think Brad made the right call here to get where he wanted to be. If you look at the pics you can see the base is getting quite thin under the pocketed base bolts. Anther .02-.025" to get the gasket in there and it may have weakened the base enough to cause problems. I would assume Husqvarna is using paper gaskets on these saws, which due to the compressibility of paper would possibly lead to cracking of the cylinder base.



And that's exactly why I've gotten in the habit of deleting the gasket. On certain saws another .016" is worrisome......especially after taking .050 or so. The 395XP is one and many early Stihls have real thin bases.


----------



## bluesportster02 (Sep 22, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> The things one doesn't think about after a while.
> 
> On the other hand, Brad said there is a use for the function keys on a keyboard....
> 
> I've never used them......



function keys whats that:msp_confused:


----------



## Metals406 (Sep 22, 2012)

Brad, buy a bull nose center.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 22, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Will, I'm usually of the same opinion, but I think Brad made the right call here to get where he wanted to be. If you look at the pics you can see the base is getting quite thin under the pocketed base bolts. Anther .02-.025" to get the gasket in there and it may have weakened the base enough to cause 2007 Crownline 240 EXproblems. I would assume Husqvarna is using paper gaskets on these saws, which due to the compressibility of paper would possibly lead to cracking of the cylinder base.



Never had a problem yet. I don't think many do, it's not something I typically hear about. I'll keep using a gasket. Typically it's less then .020" to add a gasket. 395's have a pretty thick base. 372's are much thinner, and I've never had a problem with them either.



Mastermind said:


> You need some base gaskets Will?????? I have several dozen Stihl base gaskets I was fixing to throw away. :msp_sneaky:
> 
> 
> 
> And that's exactly why I've gotten in the habit of deleting the gasket. On certain saws another .016" is worrisome......especially after taking .050 or so. The 395XP is one and many early Stihls have real thin bases.



Sure send em, over.


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## blsnelling (Sep 22, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Brad, buy a bull nose center.



I'll be getting a live center soon.


----------



## Metals406 (Sep 22, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'll be getting a live center soon.



There are many shapes to live centers. . . A bull-nose center will help greatly with turning hollow round objects like pipe.

Not to say you shouldn't have a variety. 


Bison Bull Head Live Center Morse Taper #2 New 2.36 MAX | eBay


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 22, 2012)

Easy enough to make a bull nose to mount between a standard center and the part.


----------



## Bob Wright (Sep 22, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Easy enough to make a bull nose to mount between a standard center and the part.



I made one from scrap. Just had to buy 2 bearings. CS crank bearings would work. I use mine most for starting threads straight with a die and a die holder...Bob


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## blsnelling (Sep 22, 2012)

Successfully made another mandrel, turned a popup, and turned down the base on a 346XP today


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## blsnelling (Sep 22, 2012)

190 PSI on a brand new saw


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 22, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Successfully made another mandrel, turned a popup, and turned down the base on a 346XP today



Ain't it grande!!!


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## Mastermind (Sep 22, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> 190 PSI on a brand new saw



But you've been saying for awhile now that much compression ain't needed.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 22, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> But you've been saying for awhile now that much compression ain't needed.



I actually prefer to keep it under 200 on a work saw.


----------



## tlandrum (Sep 22, 2012)

185 to 190 is more than enough for a saw that actually does get worked on a daily basis. im not talking about an occasional use firewood saw that sees a few hrs at a time every couple of weeks or months. im talking about saws that see all day tree tipping 5-6 days a week 52 weeks a year,you know ,a saw that lives up to the worksaw name. i think if you have one over 200 psi it will live a much shorter life. compression makes heat and causes more wear. when your running a saw all day long in extended long hard cuts that heat can add up to the demise of a saw.this is just my opinion on the matter and in no way means that others are wrong. im just telling it from my point of experience.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Sep 22, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> 185 to 190 is more than enough for a saw that actually does get worked on a daily basis. im not talking about an occasional use firewood saw that sees a few hrs at a time every couple of weeks or months. im talking about saws that see all day tree tipping 5-6 days a week 52 weeks a year,you know ,a saw that lives up to the worksaw name. i think if you have one over 200 psi it will live a much shorter life. compression makes heat and causes more wear. when your running a saw all day long in extended long hard cuts that heat can add up to the demise of a saw.this is just my opinion on the matter and in no way means that others are wrong. im just telling it from my point of experience.



I agree, 190 would be the max I'd want in a true everyday work saw.


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## Tzed250 (Sep 22, 2012)

It also depends on the saw. Some engines are better at shedding heat than others.


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## Mastermind (Sep 22, 2012)

But you fellers are missing my point........ :hmm3grin2orange:


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## blsnelling (Sep 22, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> But you fellers are missing my point........ :hmm3grin2orange:



High is compression is not required for a strong work saw. Does it make a strong saw stronger, probably.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 22, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Successfully made another mandrel, turned a popup, and turned down the base on a 346XP today



Without pictures it didn't happen.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 22, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Without pictures it didn't happen.



Sorry. It didn't happen today.


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## Lakeside53 (Sep 22, 2012)

Rats... it was pages back.... Yep, I'm late to this party.

Definitely get a way to hold the pipe tail. Bullnoses work OK, but... you still have to true up the pipe-end first. Best way I know is a "cats-eye" steady.


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## parrisw (Sep 22, 2012)

I use solid Aluminum for mandrels, much better IMHO.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 22, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I use solid Aluminum for mandrels, much better IMHO.





I've been reducing expensive aluminum to worthless chips all week. Then the final part was also reduced to worthless with one simple programming error. Damn it, right side, not center on the cutter. Had to get the brand new snapped off carbide EM out with a cold chisel. :msp_rolleyes: The good news.. I can now make the parts in about 17 minutes!. The first took 22 hours. lol... I only need two!

The aluminum I'm using is 7075 T651 - nice stuff.. almost as strong as mild steel, but it doesn't weld so no "repairs" after.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 22, 2012)

Expanding mandrill.


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## parrisw (Sep 22, 2012)

Recognize this 4-Jaw Andy?


----------



## parrisw (Sep 22, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> I've been reducing expensive aluminum to worthless chips all week. Then the final part was also reduced to worthless with one simple programming error. Damn it, right side, not center on the cutter. Had to get the brand new snapped off carbide EM out with a cold chisel. :msp_rolleyes: The good news.. I can now make the parts in about 17 minutes!. The first took 22 hours. lol... I only need two!
> 
> The aluminum I'm using is 7075 T651 - nice stuff.. almost as strong as mild steel, but it doesn't weld so no "repairs" after.



I just like Alu better, plus I feel better slipping the cylinder over an aluminum mandrel as apposed to a steel one.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 22, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Recognize this 4-Jaw Andy?



Guess I can quit looking for it now.


Hmmm... Looks like some old junk of foisted off on the unsuspecting:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 22, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I just like Alu better, plus I feel better slipping the cylinder over an aluminum mandrel as apposed to a steel one.




Also easier on the tools when you need to bite into it.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 22, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> Guess I can quit looking for it now.
> 
> 
> Hmmm... Looks like some old junk of foisted off on the unsuspecting:hmm3grin2orange:



LOL, well, that junk is working out pretty good for me!! LOL



Lakeside53 said:


> Also easier on the tools when you need to bite into it.



Yep!


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 22, 2012)

Lakeside53 said:


> I've been reducing expensive aluminum to worthless chips all week. Then the final part was also reduced to worthless with one simple programming error. Damn it, right side, not center on the cutter. Had to get the brand new *snapped off carbide EM out with a cold chisel*. :msp_rolleyes: The good news.. I can now make the parts in about 17 minutes!. The first took 22 hours. lol... I only need two!
> 
> The aluminum I'm using is 7075 T651 - nice stuff.. almost as strong as mild steel, but it doesn't weld so no "repairs" after.



I avoid using solid carbide when milling aluminum for that very reason, Hanita and International Mini-Cut make much better HSS/CO endmills. In production milling I've used a 1" mini-cut, full diameter, 1/2" DOC, 4000 RPM and 40 IPM. Sounds like pop-corn.


----------



## Nitroman (Sep 22, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> 185 to 190 is more than enough for a saw that actually does get worked on a daily basis. im not talking about an occasional use firewood saw that sees a few hrs at a time every couple of weeks or months. im talking about saws that see all day tree tipping 5-6 days a week 52 weeks a year,you know ,a saw that lives up to the worksaw name. i think if you have one over 200 psi it will live a much shorter life. compression makes heat and causes more wear. when your running a saw all day long in extended long hard cuts that heat can add up to the demise of a saw.this is just my opinion on the matter and in no way means that others are wrong. im just telling it from my point of experience.



If one does end up with one thins too much comp, just another $50 to have the jug anodized black. Really shed the heat then.


----------



## Nitroman (Sep 22, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Recognize this 4-Jaw Andy?



That looks to be a pretty big lathe there.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 22, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I avoid using solid carbide when milling aluminum for that very reason, Hanita and International Mini-Cut make much better HSS/CO endmills. In production milling I've used a 1" mini-cut, full diameter, 1/2" DOC, 4000 RPM and 40 IPM. Sounds like pop-corn.



Hey Nick;
Ever use a 2 1/2" OD 7/8"shaft corncob rougher for aluminium. We called it a weedwacker. Manual mill but the chips fly!!


----------



## parrisw (Sep 22, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> That looks to be a pretty big lathe there.



Not really. 9"


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 22, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Hey Nick;
> Ever use a 2 1/2" OD 7/8"shaft corncob rougher for aluminium. We called it a weedwacker. Manual mill but the chips fly!!



by corncob, do you mean knuckled? (ie ripping/roughing e/m) or do you mean inserted? I've never used inserted e/m on aluminum. I have used large e/m's on aluminum, but they weren't knuckled and I don't think it was bigger than 2". Let my try and find some pics online of the types I've used.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 22, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> by corncob, do you mean knuckled? (ie ripping/roughing e/m) or do you mean inserted? I've never used inserted e/m on aluminum. I have used large e/m's on aluminum, but they weren't knuckled and I don't think it was bigger than 2". Let my try and find some pics online of the types I've used.



Non insert rougher


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 22, 2012)

this is an online pic of the minicut e/m's I was talking about. That weird looking geometry is all for chip clearance and evacuation.


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 22, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Non insert rougher



like this?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 22, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> like this?



Except high helix, only 1 1/2" LOC and Tin coated. Snuggle it up to the collet. 

Worthless on steel, but the Wrath of God on Aluminum.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 23, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> I avoid using solid carbide when milling aluminum for that very reason, Hanita and International Mini-Cut make much better HSS/CO endmills. In production milling I've used a 1" mini-cut, full diameter, 1/2" DOC, 4000 RPM and 40 IPM. Sounds like pop-corn.




I agree. Jammed HSS would have possibly just tripped the table servos. It was the only 5/16 bull nose I had though and it had to be that size to miss other features. Now I have none and I need to go over over my tram again:bang: 

Even on my BP I'm amazed how fast and deep can push quality 1/2 and 3/4 hss though aluminum. I really should try corn cob roughers - I have a bunch but never seen to get around to using them.


----------



## Metals406 (Sep 23, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> Easy enough to make a bull nose to mount between a standard center and the part.



Too true. . . I have to reface an older one so it can be used -- and press a new bearing in it.


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 26, 2012)

Wow, what can I say!!! A HUGE thanks to my great friend Rob, Stihl 041S, for this incredible "care package". It's like Christmas in September I'm now a member of the "Giant Dial Indicator Club"


----------



## vincem77 (Sep 26, 2012)

Nice score! Are those carbide drills?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 26, 2012)

You understand about non rotating now. And the two file cleaners in the picture. 


Drills aren't carbide. But first choice for most work. 

135 deg split point M-42 Cobalt. 

Takes abuse and less interface and point pressure than standard drills and a few points harder. 

Sorry for the machinist babble. Working exotics for years and you are always looking. 

Like for the elusive T-15 drills. 

Still babbling aren't I. Maybe there should be a "Machinist babble thread". Keep us off the streets.....


----------



## blsnelling (Sep 26, 2012)

Babble on, my friend, babble on:yoyo:


----------



## nmurph (Sep 26, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> ...Maybe there should be a "Machinist babble thread". Keep us off the streets.....



That's pretty much what this whole thread has been. It's like my understanding of Spanish: I speak enough to know when I am being talked about, but not enough to understand the whole conversation. But I just keep telling myself: Self, you didn't know diddly about saws either 5 years ago, so there is hope.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 26, 2012)

nmurph said:


> That's pretty much what this whole thread has been. It's like my understanding of Spanish: I speak enough to know when I am being talked about, but not enough to understand the whole conversation. But I just keep telling myself: Self, you didn't know diddly about saws either 5 years ago, so there is hope.



Always learning. 

I'll say it again;

You know you are a machinist when you know 10% of what you THOUGHT you knew 10 years ago. 

I just found out about deep trepaning and the HP required a couple of years ago. Hadn't heard of it. And I been at this 30+ years. (that makes me seem not quite so old)


----------



## nmurph (Sep 26, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> I just found out about deep trepaning and the HP required a couple of years ago. Hadn't heard of it. And I been at this 30+ years. (that makes me seem not quite so old)



You mean this?






I learned about it in freshman psych...30 years ago!!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 26, 2012)

nmurph said:


> You mean this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You said you wouldn't tell!!!!


----------



## nmurph (Sep 26, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> You said you wouldn't tell!!!!



You reckon he preferred Goodies or BC?


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 26, 2012)

nmurph said:


> You reckon he preferred Goodies or BC?



Bacon vodka......


----------



## Nitroman (Sep 26, 2012)

Now THIS is a boring bar holder:






This is a clever design:






It is 3" diameter 8 1/2 pounds and the tool height is 1.450" so far too large for my lathe. My tool height is 1" exactly and the compound is 2.35" across. Ssssoooo...I think I can copy this one easily enough out of 4140 annealed? Boring bar holes are 3/4", 5/8" and 1/2".


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 26, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Now THIS is a boring bar holder:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cut the bottom off till it is the right height. 


Bingo!!! Bar on center. And rigid!!

No compound toolholder flex. 

One can be made using drills and endmills in the chuck.


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 26, 2012)

My instructor used to talk about the trepanning work he did. As in 10" diameter cores from a 14" shaft. He was an old timer from Special Metals in Huntington, WV. SM is what became of International Nickel / Inco Alloys. For most those names mean nothing, but as the worlds leader in high nickel alloy steel I can say for sure the developments made by that company have affected most Americans lives. Inconel was developed in that facility and is still one of the finest heat resistant alloys made. The metal finds uses in the extreme environment of aviation powerplants where it is used for the blades in turbojet engines. Our class was allowed a tour of the operation. I saw things happen in there that description would not do justce. Had to be seen to be believed. Good stuff.


----------



## nmurph (Sep 26, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Bacon vodka......



It's better to have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 26, 2012)

Inconel 600 (200) near pure nickel. Used for HT ovens and vacuum furnaces. 

Inconel X-750. 50RC at 50% cold work and headed and machined wonderfully. 

Inconel MADE the aircraft industry. 

I would love to tour that plant.


----------



## parrisw (Sep 27, 2012)

Just wanted to report, finally got to try out my new homemade HD boring bar, works really great, no chatter like before with the tiny one I had, tested it out today on a 7900 cyl.


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Sep 28, 2012)

*Trepanning*

Had to look it up....


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6HfkcqRe5xk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 28, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Had to look it up....
> 
> 
> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6HfkcqRe5xk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Great video!

Now think 13" OD of hole, 10" OD of slug, 50' depth. 


4 1/2 tons of chips. 
Making a 6 1/2 ton piece of "scrap" in the middle.


----------



## Nitroman (Sep 28, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Great video!
> 
> Now think 13" OD of hole, 10" OD of slug, 50' depth.
> 
> ...



If Napoleon had had a machine like that making his cannon, we'd be in a different world.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 28, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> If Napoleon had had a machine like that making his cannon, we'd be in a different world.



The biggest HP usage is turning tool and coolant pump. 

If the chips bind up in there......oh my!!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 28, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> If Napoleon had had a machine like that making his cannon, we'd be in a different world.



You are quite right. 

In early to mid 20th century it took longer to build the cannon for a battleship than the battleship itself.....


----------



## Tzed250 (Sep 28, 2012)

A little clip. Check out how the breech of the gun is closed, then think about cutting the interrupted screw thread in the breech and on the breech plug. 


[video=youtube;Xsp0Mr5Lcl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsp0Mr5Lcl8&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 28, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> A little clip. Check out how the breech of the gun is closed, then think about cutting the interrupted screw thread in the breech and on the breech plug.
> 
> 
> [video=youtube;Xsp0Mr5Lcl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsp0Mr5Lcl8&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]



Hand me the ring gauge....... LOL


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 28, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Had to look it up....
> 
> 
> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6HfkcqRe5xk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



that is some seriously dramatic machining music.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 28, 2012)

FATGUY said:


> that is some seriously dramatic machining music.



Machining music. Never heard it called that. I like that. 

A lot of times your ear tells you;

Yes!!!!!!


Or:




Oooooohhhhhh $$$$$$$hhhhhhhiiiiiittttttt!!!!!!!!


----------



## FATGUY (Sep 28, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Machining music. Never heard it called that. I like that.
> 
> A lot of times your ear tells you;
> 
> ...




lol, I actually meant the soundtrack, but yeah, that too.


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Sep 28, 2012)

Stihl 041S said:


> Great video!
> 
> Now think 13" OD of hole, 10" OD of slug, 50' depth.
> 
> ...





Stihl 041S said:


> Machining music. Never heard it called that. I like that.
> 
> A lot of times your ear tells you;
> 
> ...





FATGUY said:


> lol, I actually meant the soundtrack, but yeah, that too.



Yeah, it's 'heavy metal'!


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 28, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Yeah, it's 'heavy metal'!



Now THAT'S funny!!!


----------



## Nitroman (Sep 28, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> A little clip. Check out how the breech of the gun is closed, then think about cutting the interrupted screw thread in the breech and on the breech plug.
> 
> 
> [video=youtube;Xsp0Mr5Lcl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsp0Mr5Lcl8&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]



Look at some of the clips of the Chinese and their 240mm guns, they still haven't learned/employed autofrettage to lighten the gun tubes.


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## Stihl 041S (Sep 28, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Look at some of the clips of the Chinese and their 240mm guns, they still haven't learned/employed autofrettage to lighten the gun tubes.



Two M-5 tracked tractors, and a 10 ton crane for the field Artillery. 

Very accurate. 1st round fired in Korea penetrated to a North Korean ammo dump and blew the top of the mountain off. The north called it"Black Death"

My dad had a battery. Great stories. 

Those are the last of them in use today.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Sep 28, 2012)

Nitroman said:


> Look at some of the clips of the Chinese and their 240mm guns, they still haven't learned/employed autofrettage to lighten the gun tubes.



Don't know when autofrettage was first used. They were worried about the 240 as it was replacing the 240s that were blowing up from WW I. 

Some where there is a video of the Tiwanese firing theirs. 

To get range you used so many of the bags of powder that came with each round. 

Burning the rest at the end of the day. 

Sometimes a upwards of a thousand pounds. 

And you calculated differently depending of you were north or south of the equator.


----------



## JRHAWK9 (Oct 9, 2012)

Just ran across this lathe.....some high tech stuff right here folks! 

[video=youtube;P4qB6n1cm04]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=P4qB6n1cm04[/video]


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## Rudolf73 (Oct 9, 2012)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Just ran across this lathe.....some high tech stuff right here folks!



Those Canadians eh...?!? :rolleyes2:


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## 046 (Oct 9, 2012)

a bit late, but recently sold this south bend 9in swing with 24in bed. supported on factory metal legs. this is the smallest southbend lathe I've ever seen. 

almost no wear ... chucks still had paper stickers on... this lathe was in like new condition. 
sold it for $1,500 .. talk about one happy buyer... only reason I sold it was ... ran out of room. could only keep one lathe.


----------



## LegDeLimber (Oct 9, 2012)

have seen a fellows garage with a short and long bed set of those Southbends.
Short bed had a home brew v-belt speed changer mounted over the flat drive,
giving a nice range of speeds.

Also knew a guy that had a little Southbend that had a set of riser blocks 
under the head and tailstocks, but no compensation in the cross slide.
...made grinding and centering the points of the tools a bit of a mental exercise.


----------



## Nitroman (Oct 10, 2012)

046 said:


> a bit late, but recently sold this south bend 9in swing with 24in bed. supported on factory metal legs. this is the smallest southbend lathe I've ever seen.
> 
> almost no wear ... chucks still had paper stickers on... this lathe was in like new condition.
> sold it for $1,500 .. talk about one happy buyer... only reason I sold it was ... ran out of room. could only keep one lathe.



This lathe was a pre-1930 Model O which preceeded the Models A, B, and C.

You can see your lathe as it appeared in the South Bend catalogue.
Go here: The SBL Workshop - Catalog Index
Go down to: Bltn No. 9
Go to page 7 in the Pdf or Page 6 in the doc itself. Your lathe was catalogue number 30-X 2 1/2 foot bed with 10 1/4" between centers.
Click below for the pic.
View attachment 256613


This past week I took the apron off my lathe and disassembled, cleaned and re-wicked it. I did the same for the gearbox. Couldn't go all the way with the gearbox as the main shafts were held together with slotted screws that had been heavily center-punched. I'd've had to grind out the punched part to get the screw out so just flushed and scrubbed the gears well. The lathe is so smooth now. 
With my HSS bits I got, and the 1.5" diameter bar of 12L14 it is time to get off my butt and turn some collars to see how well my machine is dialed in.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Nov 22, 2012)

Good thread, but it's a lot to take in at once! I've been wanting a small lathe for a while now, just haven't pulled the trigger. I like the 10x22 Grizzly just like Brad got, seems to be the best bang for the buck that I've found. I hope to order one in the next few weeks, If not Ill have to wait till after all the holidays are over .


----------



## Joe Kidd (Nov 22, 2012)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Just ran across this lathe.....some high tech stuff right here folks!
> 
> [video=youtube;P4qB6n1cm04]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=P4qB6n1cm04[/video]



And I thought this kind of stuff was only seen in the south? What a fool I've been. :msp_confused: git er done!


----------



## Rudolf73 (Nov 22, 2012)

Joe Kidd said:


> And I thought this kind of stuff was only seen in the south? What a fool I've been. :msp_confused: git er done!



I'm guessing Canada has a "south" too...? :biggrin:


----------



## parrisw (Nov 22, 2012)

Rudolf73 said:


> I'm guessing Canada has a "south" too...? :biggrin:



I believe that guy is up North. In Canada its opposite, then you guys! LOL


----------



## Joe Kidd (Nov 23, 2012)

We actually have a HVAC contractor in our called "Getairdone" No joke!


----------



## mdavlee (Jun 5, 2013)

I hate to revive a real old thread. Is a simplex lathe a good one? It's an older unit 10x24".


----------



## Stihl 041S (Jun 5, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> I hate to revive a real old thread. Is a simplex lathe a good one? It's an older unit 10x24".



Google: Lathes.co.uk

Gives a write up on most machines made

Hope this helps.


----------



## srcarr52 (Jun 5, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> I hate to revive a real old thread. Is a simplex lathe a good one? It's an older unit 10x24".



Never heard of a Simplex but a 10x24" should swing even a 3120 cylinder without an issue.


----------



## machinisttx (Jun 5, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> I hate to revive a real old thread. Is a simplex lathe a good one? It's an older unit 10x24".



From the pictures/info at the website that Stihl041S mentioned, those machines will be ancient designs by today's standards. They appear to have been designed to be run from lineshafts in an industrial setting and not have an electric motor integral to the design. If you're talking about one with an electric motor, then it's been adapted(not uncommon for older machines) to operate from one and that could be good or bad depending on who did the work and how it was done. Some work well and some, not so much. I didn't look very closely, but it may also use change gears for different feed rates and threads per inch. Change gears aren't a bad thing necessarily(assuming it comes with *all* of them), but it's a lot more hassle than a quick change gearbox. You also won't be cutting metric threads without doing some calculation to find, IIRC, another input gear, buying it, and machining it to fit the shaft.

Without looking at the machine in question and being able to lay hands on it, I couldn't tell you if it's worthwhile or not. It's not uncommon for older machines to have worn ways, especially up near the headstock where most work is done. It's also not uncommon for the leadscrews and nuts to be severely worn. Most(at least from my experience) use left hand acme thread for the leadscrews and a lot of times people will replace it with right hand thread and then the dials are backwards. Something else of note is that some lathes are "2 for 1" and others are "1 for 1", meaning that on some machines when you dial in .001" on the compound or crossfeed on a "2 for 1", it will remove .002" from the diameter. I've never run across a machine with a dial on the carriage travel that was 2 for 1, though it wouldn't surprise me if they exist.

Pick up a copy of home shop machinist magazine and/or search for machinist forums. There used to be one called practicalmachinist, but I don't know if it's still in use or not.


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 5, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> Never heard of a Simplex but a 10x24" should swing even a 3120 cylinder without an issue.



I had no problems spinning a 3120 jug on a 7"swing.......


----------



## srcarr52 (Jun 5, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I had no problems spinning a 3120 jug on a 7"swing.......



On a customized 7" swing lathe.


----------



## Rudolf73 (Jun 5, 2013)

If your jug is to big, maybe spin the lathe instead? Just a thought...


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 5, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> On a customized 7" swing lathe.



That's very true Shawn.........I forgot about having to mod the carriage. 

And I had to use long mandrels......


----------



## Stihl 041S (Jun 5, 2013)

Practical Machinist is alive and well

Largest technical forum, but a pro forum. 

Read the rules and don't ask about Chinese machines. Don will lock the thread. 

Incredible forum. 

Covers everything about machines and what machines make. Like everything. 

Two types of things in the world......things God made.....and things machinists made. LOL


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 5, 2013)

Stihl 041S said:


> Practical Machinist is alive and well
> 
> Largest technical forum, but a pro forum.
> 
> ...



Excellent........ 



Your saw had to have a fuel line Rob.............we're getting it running just right before we dive in.


----------



## srcarr52 (Jun 5, 2013)

Stihl 041S said:


> Practical Machinist is alive and well
> 
> Largest technical forum, but a pro forum.
> 
> ...



It's a very good source of information. I've been using it a lot lately as I've been in the market for a 2 axis CNC mill. 

FYI use the google site command to search only that forum. 
Int the google search bar type
Siteracticalmachinist.com 
Followed by your normal search criteria.


----------



## blsnelling (Jun 5, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Excellent........
> 
> 
> 
> Your saw had to have a fuel line Rob.............we're getting it running just right before we dive in.



Long live the 090!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 5, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Long live the 090!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I sure hope so.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Jun 5, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Excellent........
> 
> 
> 
> Your saw had to have a fuel line Rob.............we're getting it running just right before we dive in.



I'll get the other box out tomorrow.

Email sent.


----------



## machinisttx (Jun 5, 2013)

Stihl 041S said:


> Practical Machinist is alive and well
> 
> Largest technical forum, but a pro forum.
> 
> ...



It's been a long while since I've been over there. There were several others, but I can't remember the names. I know home shop machinist magazine has one.

Your last statement is very true.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Jun 5, 2013)

machinisttx said:


> It's been a long while since I've been over there. There were several others, but I can't remember the names. I know home shop machinist magazine has one.
> 
> Your last statement is very true.




A kid came home from school and asked what his dad did. The other kids were bragging on their lawyer and accountant dads. 

"I'm a machinist"

What exactly does a machinist make?

The father took the kid to the window and had him look out on the city. 

There are two kinds things out there son........


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## machinisttx (Jun 5, 2013)

Stihl 041S said:


> A kid came home from school and asked what his dad did. The other kids were bragging on their lawyer and accountant dads.
> 
> "I'm a machinist"
> 
> ...



I'm probably going to have a similar talk with my son in a few years, only difference is that we don't live in town.


----------



## Stihl 041S (Jun 5, 2013)

machinisttx said:


> I'm probably going to have a similar talk with my son in a few years, only difference is that we don't live in town.



Respect for skilled traded. 

You know you are a Machinist or Logger when you know 10% of what you THOUGHT you knew 10 years ago...........


----------



## machinisttx (Jun 6, 2013)

Stihl 041S said:


> Respect for skilled traded.
> 
> You know you are a Machinist or Logger when you know 10% of what you THOUGHT you knew 10 years ago...........



Whenever my previous employer asked me anything, I always said "I don't know, I'm a dumb:censored: ".  Even when I was just starting out, I sort of figured those old fellers just _might_ be able to teach me something. But yeah, even when you think you know, you don't. It's never the same.


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## dozerdan (Jun 6, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> I hate to revive a real old thread. Is a simplex lathe a good one? It's an older unit 10x24".



Can you describe this critter for me.?
Was it set up origanaly for a line shaft or does it have its own motor?
Was it built in US or Belgium?
I ran a 14" lathe in the early 70s that was built in Belgium, made by Mondial but had the Simplex marking. I would drive a few hundred miles to get one if the price was right. If it is one of the older ones built in the US set up for a line shaft, I would pass on it.

Later
Dan


----------



## Bill G (Jun 7, 2013)

machinisttx said:


> From the pictures/info at the website that Stihl041S mentioned, those machines will be ancient designs by today's standards. They appear to have been designed to be run from lineshafts in an industrial setting and not have an electric motor integral to the design. ..............................



There are quite a bit of line shaft tools still being used here everyday. It is true many have been converted to use a overhead electric motor but there are still guys with line shafts. Simple power for multiple machines.

Bill


----------



## LegDeLimber (Jun 7, 2013)

DozrDan, shoot man aint nothing wrong with an old lineshaft rig
if you don't mind setting up a power unit for it.
As (i think it was machinisttx) said if all wear areas are in spec
clean it up and keep the drip cups filled and enjoy the advance in your options!

machinisttx, I've run into that "wrong hand" acme thread issue (once thankfully).
cross slide was the spot and danged job I was given had something in the range of 
inch & half bore , 7~8 inches deep, blind hole of course (been a while, exact numbers fade)

anyhoo..hole drilled & bored to spec, now I get to set my travel indicator
and single point the internal thread and *not* reflexively spin the handle
in the "normal" direction at the end of the cut with each pass.
oh you know darn well it was one of those old metal bin on skids
full of the parts to run.

the ancient mig gun with jumper wires in the feed controller was an adventure in burnbacks and bird nests in the feed rollers.

Had just come back to NC and needed to get a paycheck and ended up there.
...got the hell out of that place as fast as I could too.


----------



## machinisttx (Jun 7, 2013)

Bill G said:


> There are quite a bit of line shaft tools still being used here everyday. It is true many have been converted to use a overhead electric motor but there are still guys with line shafts. Simple power for multiple machines.
> 
> Bill



Yep, lots of those machines are still plenty good to make parts on. I'd run one if I had it, but I sure wouldn't go to any extra effort to find one. I'd rather have a machine 20-30 years newer with an integral motor, quick change gear box, and a geared head(although I do like the sound of a leather belt driven machine).


----------



## dozerdan (Jun 7, 2013)

I am fully aware of the capabilities of the older lathes that were driven with a line shaft. I own one that will swing 30" and is a little over 76" between centers. I use it very little but it does come in handy. 

The Simplex Machine Tool Co. closed its doors in 1924. That's why I asked for the county that it was built in. To me that's old, darn old and I would not recommend anyone get something like that for their first lathe. There is plenty of newer lathes out there that can be picked up at a good price if you look around and don't get in a hurry.

I actually like the older US built lathes, just not that far back in time. I had a small 13x36 Sheldon I used for years that was probably built in the 50s.

I picked this one up for 500.00 a few years ago. Its an Italian built Troglia. Deals are out there for newer lathes.
View attachment 299073


Later
Dan


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 7, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> I am fully aware of the capabilities of the older lathes that were driven with a line shaft. I own one that will swing 30" and is a little over 76" between centers. I use it very little but it does come in handy.
> 
> The Simplex Machine Tool Co. closed its doors in 1924. That's why I asked for the county that it was built in. To me that's old, darn old and I would not recommend anyone get something like that for their first lathe. There is plenty of newer lathes out there that can be picked up at a good price if you look around and don't get in a hurry.
> 
> ...



I feel so inadequate..... :msp_unsure:


----------



## Metals406 (Jun 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I feel so inadequate..... :msp_unsure:



Said the guy WITH a lathe! Care to rejoin us hand mandrel guys? Come back to us Randy!

One of us. . . One of us. . . One of us. . . One of us. . .


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 7, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> Said the guy WITH a lathe! Care to rejoin us hand mandrel guys? Come back to us Randy!
> 
> One of us. . . One of us. . . One of us. . . One of us. . .



LMAO Nate.

I have a 9 X 20 Chinese lathe........that I've already had to make several modifications on. 

It ain't a *real* lathe. :msp_unsure:


----------



## dozerdan (Jun 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> LMAO Nate.
> 
> I have a 9 X 20 Chinese lathe........that I've already had to make several modifications on.
> 
> It ain't a *real* lathe. :msp_unsure:



I thought that you purchased a larger one ?

Later
Dan


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 7, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> I thought that you purchased a larger one ?
> 
> Later
> Dan



I was using a 7 X 14......


----------



## dozerdan (Jun 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I was using a 7 X 14......



OK

I don't know why but I was thinking that you picked up a lathe with a 10" swing.

Later
Dan


----------



## machinisttx (Jun 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> LMAO Nate.
> 
> I have a 9 X 20 Chinese lathe........that I've already had to make several modifications on.
> 
> It ain't a *real* lathe. :msp_unsure:



You shouldn't have much trouble finding an older South Bend 9" with a quick change gearbox. The speed selection on them is limited, but they're good little machines and there are tons of them out there. Prices generally aren't too bad either.


----------



## LegDeLimber (Jun 7, 2013)

Dang, I lose track of who's got what tools around here.
sorry if I end up blabbering on about things that anyone already has or knows about.

P.S. I'm just a pinch envious of all y'all with access to or possession of a tool room sized lathe
and a decent mill.


----------



## machinisttx (Jun 7, 2013)

LegDeLimber said:


> Dang, I lose track of who's got what tools around here.
> sorry if I end up blabbering on about things that anyone already has or knows about.
> 
> P.S. I'm just a pinch envious of all y'all with access to or possession of a tool room sized lathe
> and a decent mill.



It ain't the machines that cost money, it's the tooling. Here's one that I used to run. Horizontal Machining Center | MAG1 5-Axis CNC Machine


----------



## 046 (Jun 7, 2013)

machinisttx said:


> It ain't the machines that cost money, it's the tooling.



tooling can cost as much as the lathe ... always on the lookout for deals on tooling for my trusty 9in Southbend. 
last year purchased another Southbend lathe loaded with tooling for $550 (quick change collet set, QC tool holder, $2k+ of Starrett, Brown & Sharpe, etc tools, etc etc) ... sold 9in lathe without tooling for $1,500 or way too cheap, still had original paper sticker on some pieces. talk about a mint machine!!

the guy that purchase the mint 9in Southbend sure was happy! if I had more room in my garage, would have kept that lathe .. oh well .. 

later I'm seeing fully restored 9in Southbend lathes priced at $5,500 ... wonder if they actually sell for those ridiculous prices...


----------



## machinisttx (Jun 7, 2013)

046 said:


> tooling can cost as much as the lathe ... always on the lookout for deals on tooling for my trusty 9in Southbend.
> last year purchased another entire Southbend lathe loaded with tooling (quick change collet set, tool holder, butt load of precision tools, etc etc) ... sold 9in lathe without tooling for $1,500 or way too cheap, still had original paper sticker on some pieces. talk about a mint machine!!
> 
> the guy that purchase the mint 9in Southbend sure was happy!
> ...



I'm surprised to see that anyone paid $1500 for a 9" SB with no tooling. My SB Heavy 10 with underdrive cabinet cost me $600. The only significant wear I could find was the compound screw.


----------



## wise wood (Jun 7, 2013)

Having been around machinery(42 years as a tool & die guy) I wouldn't go smaller than 10 " on a S.B. Reason is spindle hole is to small
on smaller lathe. A "heavy" 10" has about 1 3/8 I D if I remember correctly . You are only gonna buy once go a little larger than you think you need.
you wont regret it down the road when you get that job that is a bit larger than normal.
Wise Wood


----------



## machinisttx (Jun 7, 2013)

wise wood said:


> Having been around machinery(42 years as a tool & die guy) I wouldn't go smaller than 10 " on a S.B. Reason is spindle hole is to small
> on smaller lathe. A "heavy" 10" has about 1 3/8 I D if I remember correctly . You are only gonna buy once go a little larger than you think you need.
> you wont regret it down the road when you get that job that is a bit larger than normal.
> Wise Wood



Yep, the 9" and the "light 10" have small spindle bores. You're correct on the heavy 10. I think somewhere around 12-13" of swing is a pretty decent size for most folks.

Props to the tool and die makers. I learned a lot from them in my first couple years, before I went to another shop. Been a while since I worked with anyone I'd call a toolmaker. Worked with a lot of guys on the blacksmith level though. LOL.


----------



## 046 (Jun 8, 2013)

machinisttx said:


> I'm surprised to see that anyone paid $1500 for a 9" SB with no tooling. My SB Heavy 10 with underdrive cabinet cost me $600. The only significant wear I could find was the compound screw.



buyer was really happy finding such a minty 9in Southbend .. it was the compact model with factory cast legs. pretty darn important for folks with limited space. not everyone has room for a heavy 10...


----------



## LegDeLimber (Jun 8, 2013)

That small spindle hole seems to be the biggest choke point with "hobbyist" lathes.
I always thought that something with a removable gap bed that could....
swing a standard car rim in the gap (used to be 15"dia, not sure nowdays), had a 3"+ spindle bore and around 5' betwixt centers 
would be a darn handy speced machine in a home shop.

Tooling cost, ohhh yeah, interesting how much thicker that part of the catalog is.

couple of needless pics of one of the largest I ever got to run, with me for scale.
They only had a couple in that size when I worked for them (late '80s). 
Company grew over the years and then most of their type work went offshore.
I just happened to notice the auction (the used PC in front of me was all that was in my budget)
edit: NO way would I have had hair that long in a shop either!


----------



## machinisttx (Jun 8, 2013)

046 said:


> buyer was really happy finding such a minty 9in Southbend .. it was the compact model with factory cast legs. pretty darn important for folks with limited space. not everyone has room for a heavy 10...



Some of the heavy tens were on a smaller cabinet. I don't think there's really that much difference in the footprint. The UD cabinet has a couple of extra inches on each end, but otherwise it's no bigger, especially without the extra shaft/pulleys hanging out the back.



LegDeLimber said:


> That small spindle hole seems to be the biggest choke point with "hobbyist" lathes.
> I always thought that something with a removable gap bed that could....
> swing a standard car rim in the gap (used to be 15"dia, not sure nowdays), had a 3"+ spindle bore and around 5' betwixt centers
> would be a darn handy speced machine in a home shop.
> ...



I'd go for 15" swing and a 3" bore. Don't care much for the gap beds though. Nobody ever puts them back in right or clean. :msp_mad:

We've got one almost that size at work. Bed length is a little shorter, swing is probably a couple of inches less. I hear that there's a shop not far from where I work that has an old manual with a 10 foot faceplate on it..... One local company has a machine(not sure if it's a boring or turning machine) large enough that you ride a carriage above the cutting tool.


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## 046 (Jun 8, 2013)

just looked up pictures of SB heavy 10 .. really surprised to see foot print is not that big
yes I'd like to have a larger spindle on 9in SB .. but after many years of searching. finally have assembled a decent amount of tooling. don't think I'll be switching anytime soon ..


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## Metals406 (Jun 8, 2013)

A heavy 10 like that would be sweet!


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## Stihl 041S (Jun 8, 2013)

During WW II the government bought a lot of parts from Mom&Pop shops. 

Many built on small SB lathes. 

They issued sent out a paper on how to increase rigidity. 

By attaching the lathe to a concrete slab or I beam there was less vibration and flex. 

The shops were able to hold much better tolerances. 

I'll see if I can find it.

I think I've posted it be before, maybe in this thread. 

Thank heaven memory is the first to go. Lol


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## machinisttx (Jun 8, 2013)

046 said:


> just looked up pictures of SB heavy 10 .. really surprised to see foot print is not that big
> yes I'd like to have a larger spindle on 9in SB .. but after many years of searching. finally have assembled a decent amount of tooling. don't think I'll be switching anytime soon ..



Mine is on the UD cabinet with drawers. Lots of parts are interchangeable between the 9" and 10" SB lathes...


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## Bill G (Jun 9, 2013)

machinisttx said:


> Yep, lots of those machines are still plenty good to make parts on. I'd run one if I had it, but I sure wouldn't go to any extra effort to find one. I'd rather have a machine 20-30 years newer with an integral motor, quick change gear box, and a geared head(although I do like the sound of a leather belt driven machine).



Ole sheemy made parts made on a Shipley The ole engines still run today


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## srcarr52 (Jun 9, 2013)

I finally installed the collet closer correctly on my lathe today. 

View attachment 299462


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## srcarr52 (Jun 9, 2013)

I finally installed the collet closer correctly on my lathe today. 

View attachment 299463


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## dozerdan (Jun 9, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> I finally installed the collet closer correctly on my lathe today.
> 
> View attachment 299463



Is that a Dorian tool post? I picked up one a while back for my lathe. I just hated paying more for the post and the holder then I paid for the lathe. I almost bought a new import but I just couldn't talk myself into one. I am glad that I bought the Dorian.

Later
Dan


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## srcarr52 (Jun 9, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> Is that a Dorian tool post? I picked up one a while back for my lathe. I just hated paying more for the post and the holder then I paid for the lathe. I almost bought a new import but I just couldn't talk myself into one. I am glad that I bought the Dorian.
> 
> Later
> Dan



I had an import wedge type and I hated it. It would take 3/4 of a turn before it felt like it locked down. I picked that Dorian Super toolpost of the bay about a month ago. It was all rusty so no one was bidding on it. Turns out it was just shelf rust and it was brand new, still had the plastic on the nameplate. I got it for $150. I'm yet to use it with my boring bar but I hope it fixes the chattering problem I had.


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## LegDeLimber (Jun 10, 2013)

srcarr52-What kind of situation are you getting the chatter under?
Is the tool holder in good condition and supporting the boring bar fully?
I'll assume it's small~ish hole, since we're on a chainsaw thread 
and ask if there's any room to add some sort of damper to it.
funny what works for killing squeals.
any way to wrap something around the workpiece and or the boring bar ?
Can be funny what will choke of a resonance.
have even seen a 2x6 with scrap steel hung on it, leaned across the backside of a turning piece.

I had an asphalt roller drum that was something like 30" dia, 60" long 1/2" wall thickness
It had a couple of round plates welded inside maybe a foot in from ends (exact numbers are fading from me)
as one could guess those were prone to ringing like a bell when you turning the o.d.
I ended up rolling a ring from something like 1/2x3 flatbar and then wrapping the o.d. of it
with some heavy rubber (prob 5/8 thick same width as ring). welded up some spacer blocks
with tubes at each end of the ring on i.d., then a rig up from acme rod and nuts to spread it.
sorta like an inside out reverse hose clamp. 
would slip this inside the tailstock end of the roll (before hoisting it to the lathe)
and turn the acme "bolt" to expand the ring in the roll. stopped all that ringing and chatter.
before hand, the prior operator had been trying to use a sharp point tool and a really slow feed
to suppress the problem. That issue and some other problems with getting a roll turned 
(both ends faced, bout 3/4" long taper to blend o.d. to ends )
was taking a full day typically and operator had to stand at the lathe the whole time
for worries of tool breakage and dealing with that easter basket of shavings that hot rolled
is so good for at producing from flat brazed carbide, hand ground tools.
after the adding damper ring , I could go to insert (titanium nitride coated) tooling 
with chip breaking shapes. etc... when most of the troubles were worked out
I was able to get *average* turning time to under 2 hrs.


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## srcarr52 (Jun 10, 2013)

LegDeLimber said:


> srcarr52-What kind of situation are you getting the chatter under?
> Is the tool holder in good condition and supporting the boring bar fully?
> I'll assume it's small~ish hole, since we're on a chainsaw thread
> and ask if there's any room to add some sort of damper to it.
> ...



1/2" carbide boring bar, hung out 4.5" to cut squish bands. I don't have too much of a problem unless it's a AM cylinder with a lot of NiCaSil over plating in the chamber... then it rings. It shouldn't have this problem though and I think it was because the knock off wedge toolpost not seating the tool holder well. Also my cross slide gip was a little loose. I should have it sorted now. We'll see on the next squish band I cut.


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## Mastermind (Jun 10, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> 1/2" carbide boring bar, hung out 4.5" to cut squish bands. I don't have too much of a problem unless it's a AM cylinder with a lot of NiCaSil over plating in the chamber... then it rings. It shouldn't have this problem though and I think it was because the knock off wedge toolpost not seating the tool holder well. Also my cross slide gip was a little loose. I should have it sorted now. We'll see on the next squish band I cut.



I've started using a very aggressive grind on my HSS cutter to get through that plating. It will dull quickly but normally makes it through the plating before I have to change cutters.

I also use a 3/4" bar.


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## srcarr52 (Jun 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've started using a very aggressive grind on my HSS cutter to get through that plating. It will dull quickly but normally makes it through the plating before I have to change cutters.
> 
> I also use a 3/4" bar.



I think I'm going to look for a 5/8" carbide boring bar and use some positive rake inserts if I still have problems. It'd be really nice to get a through coolant bar and just blow air through it to clear the chips out of the cylinder.


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## LegDeLimber (Jun 10, 2013)

how are your clearance angles on the carbide?
if it's pretty close to parallel with the roof of the comb chamber
or just the direction of feed/travel , it'll be more prone to chatter.
looking from top down in my quick poor sketch,
the area pointed to for clearance is the first area of concern.
need to have some relief there to not promote chatter when you are facing the chamber.

edit: also you can just run the bar with cutting face down 
and bore from what we would think of as the back side of the hole.
reverse your spindle rotation of course.
The chips can tend to drop away better sometimes like this and not be so bad to foul
the tool , thus scratching up the part.

2nd edit: ditto on the heavier bar. 
you can't hardly go wrong with using the thickest bar that you can get in there
while still haveing the cutter geometry needed for the material.


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## srcarr52 (Jun 10, 2013)

LegDeLimber said:


> how are your clearance angles on the carbide?
> if it's pretty close to parallel with the roof of the comb chamber
> or just the direction of feed/travel , it'll be more prone to chatter.
> looking from top down in my quick poor sketch,
> ...



The clearance angle is pretty tight since I cut the squish at 2deg and I'm using a triangular insert bar. 

Good idea about flipping the bar over and running it on the backside. I wouldn't have to reverse the rotation though.


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## thomas1 (Jun 10, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've started using a very aggressive grind on my HSS cutter to get through that plating. It will dull quickly but normally makes it through the plating before I have to change cutters.
> 
> I also use a 3/4" bar.



Any benefit to taking the grinder to the combustion chamber? Just giving yourself enough of a starting point to get under the plating?


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## LegDeLimber (Jun 10, 2013)

Rotation reverse .... ah yes, just a Duh moment here for me.

lack of sleep & pain meds aint helping, I'll be glad to get things squared away somewhat
(late summer probably) and get the knee work done.


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## LegDeLimber (Jun 10, 2013)

I think on the grinder idea, you'd need to be darn careful to not nick the walls 
and the variations from hand cutting would make figuring out your cut more complicated.

But I did use to sometimes grab a side grinder and knock off the mill scale on hot rolled steel
to reduce tool dulling and make layout/marking easier.


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## dozerdan (Jun 10, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> I had an import wedge type and I hated it. It would take 3/4 of a turn before it felt like it locked down. I picked that Dorian Super toolpost of the bay about a month ago. It was all rusty so no one was bidding on it. Turns out it was just shelf rust and it was brand new, still had the plastic on the nameplate. I got it for $150. I'm yet to use it with my boring bar but I hope it fixes the chattering problem I had.



I bought a 14x40 lathe that was built in Brazil. I paid 500.00 for the lathe,all I had to do to the lathe was cut a few new change gears for it. It came with an Aloris post and about 12 holders and all had carbide tools in the. Darn crack heads stole that set up before I ever got to use it. I had planed on selling the lathe and keeping the post and holders for myself.

My Dorian is the Super. I picked it up used with 10 holders for 550 but it was mint. The holders are Dorian and Aloris with one odd import. The import hold works fine but it had soft screws in it.

Your 1/2 bar should work well in your holder. I use a 5/8 left hand bar for the chambers. 

Later
Dan


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## srcarr52 (Jun 10, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> I bought a 14x40 lathe that was built in Brazil. I paid 500.00 for the lathe,all I had to do to the lathe was cut a few new change gears for it. It came with an Aloris post and about 12 holders and all had carbide tools in the. Darn crack heads stole that set up before I ever got to use it. I had planed on selling the lathe and keeping the post and holders for myself.
> 
> My Dorian is the Super. I picked it up used with 10 holders for 550 but it was mint. The holders are Dorian and Aloris with one odd import. The import hold works fine but it had soft screws in it.
> 
> ...



That is a 13x40" older Jet lathe (made in Taiwan, not China). It came with the Bison 6.25" 3 jaw, 4 jaw, 5C collet closer, import wedge toolpost, some import holders, a few import indexable turning tools and two solid carbide indexable kentametal boring bars (3/8", and 1/2") . All for $1400. The lathe had a 5hp 3 phase motor in it but I put a 3hp single phase for my shop power. I don't have the two change gears to cover all metric thread but I can do most metric and all standard. 

I've bought a hodge-podge of import holders since and I recently found a import BXA #2 XL holder so it can hold 3/4" tooling. Yes I've found the screws to be the down fall of some of the imports. The good one's have 5mm instead of 4mm hex heads in the set screws.

Now that I've got the collet closer working well I'll probably by an import set of collets and a nice larger boring bar and then I think I'm done on lathe tooling for a while. I got my eye on a 2 axis CNC mill I just have to borrow a trailer and get there. What is your opinion of the Universal Kwik-Switch 200 tooling beside darn expensive since there is no import? It's on a 5hp Tree mill, big American iron.


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## dozerdan (Jun 10, 2013)

You and I both need DRO for our lathes. LOL

I have a Clausing Kondia mill with DRO that had the Kwik-Switch spindle in it and some tooling. It also came with the R8 spindle. I used it for a while that way then later on I installed the R8 in it. If I made my living running the mill every day I would use the Kwik-Switch. I use it about once a week. For all the more I use it I couldn't justify the added cost of tooling. You can pick up R8 stuff used everywhere.

I made the collet close for my lathe but it is the old hand wheel type. I don't use the close that often.

I am still old school and I have never used a CNC machine. I am not sure how they would work in a small shop when no two small jobs are the same.

Later
Dan


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## srcarr52 (Jun 10, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> You and I both need DRO for our lathes. LOL
> 
> I have a Clausing Kondia mill with DRO that had the Kwik-Switch spindle in it and some tooling. It also came with the R8 spindle. I used it for a while that way then later on I installed the R8 in it. If I made my living running the mill every day I would use the Kwik-Switch. I use it about once a week. For all the more I use it I couldn't justify the added cost of tooling. You can pick up R8 stuff used everywhere.
> 
> ...



I don't need a DRO for mine but I wouldn't mind one. The cross slide is true and I took the time to properly align the head stock so it cuts very true. I always use a dial indicator on the carriage because the markings on that wheel are always useless, if I need to be within 1/2 thou I'll put one on the cross slide as well. I have a few products out there that require for me to make many parts on the lathe so the collet closer is going to cut the run time in half. 

I've always run manual machines but the 2 axis CNC is the minimum for some of the work I want to do in the future.


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## machinisttx (Jun 10, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> The clearance angle is pretty tight since I cut the squish at 2deg and I'm using a triangular insert bar.
> 
> Good idea about flipping the bar over and running it on the backside. I wouldn't have to reverse the rotation though.



Don't cut in reverse if you have a threaded on chuck. You run a risk of having it unscrew while you cut.


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## srcarr52 (Jun 10, 2013)

machinisttx said:


> Don't cut in reverse if you have a threaded on chuck. You run a risk of having it unscrew while you cut.



D1-4 mount.


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## machinisttx (Jun 11, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> D1-4 mount.



Camlock chuck mounts for the win. Some of the later 10" SB lathes had camlock mounts, not sure about the 9" models. It's the one thing I really dislike about mine.


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## procarbine2k1 (Jun 19, 2013)

<a href="http://s126.photobucket.com/user/procarbine2k1/media/2013-06-19_114119_zpsfee1ccd1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p117/procarbine2k1/2013-06-19_114119_zpsfee1ccd1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2013-06-19_114119_zpsfee1ccd1.jpg"/></a>

My new South Bend just made it home and in the shop.


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## w8ye (Jun 19, 2013)

Very nice


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## procarbine2k1 (Jun 19, 2013)

w8ye said:


> That one has the "back gear" gear reduction setup accessory that a lot of them did not have.
> 
> 
> There was also a cast aluminum cover for the pulleys in the headstock



I am going to Ashland in a minute.. but I am going to make tracks back home and hopefully have some free time today. I would like you to check it out, and I have a real sweet looking AS shirt from the gtg too waiting on you. I will give you a buzz in a few.


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## srcarr52 (Jun 19, 2013)

It's not a lathe but I came home with this guy yesterday. 

View attachment 300999


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## w8ye (Jun 19, 2013)

That's a big one like a #5?


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## srcarr52 (Jun 19, 2013)

w8ye said:


> That's a big one like a #5?



Partner 03 Milltronics Centurion 1 controls, I think it weighs 4700lbs.


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## procarbine2k1 (Jun 19, 2013)

Very nice looking mill, its been a while since Ive spent some time with one of those.


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## procarbine2k1 (Jun 19, 2013)

What are you guys thinking for a tool post? What supply shop have you had good luck with? I am out of the loop, but I have purchased from Shars before, but again its been a while. I found a wedge post with a few holders on Ebay new, but have seen mixed reviews. It has a lantern post on it now, which is alright but will be going a different direction for boring. Pardon my off and on absence with AS, I will be spending some minutes, hours, days, possibly weeks on practical machinist, excellent site!


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## srcarr52 (Jun 19, 2013)

procarbine2k1 said:


> What are you guys thinking for a tool post? What supply shop have you had good luck with? I am out of the loop, but I have purchased from Shars before, but again its been a while. I found a wedge post with a few holders on Ebay new, but have seen mixed reviews. It has a lantern post on it now, which is alright but will be going a different direction for boring. Pardon my off and on absence with AS, I will be spending some minutes, hours, days, possibly weeks on practical machinist, excellent site!



What size lathe. I have an import wedge style BXA size tool post I'd sell ya cheap. Check eBay for cheap tool holders.


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## Mastermind (Jun 20, 2013)

I'm using a Shars QC on my 9 X 20.......


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## Rudolf73 (Jun 20, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm using a Shars QC on my 9 X 20.......



Hows your new lathe going btw Randy?


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## dozerdan (Jun 20, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> What size lathe. I have an import wedge style BXA size tool post I'd sell ya cheap. Check eBay for cheap tool holders.



He needs an AXA, he has a 9" South Bend.

Later
Dan


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## dozerdan (Jun 20, 2013)

procarbine2k1 said:


> What are you guys thinking for a tool post? What supply shop have you had good luck with? I am out of the loop, but I have purchased from Shars before, but again its been a while. I found a wedge post with a few holders on Ebay new, but have seen mixed reviews. It has a lantern post on it now, which is alright but will be going a different direction for boring. Pardon my off and on absence with AS, I will be spending some minutes, hours, days, possibly weeks on practical machinist, excellent site!



If you are going with an import QC Post, take a good look at the Phase II. 

Later
Dan


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## Bill G (Jun 20, 2013)

srcarr52 said:


> That is a 13x40" older Jet lathe (made in Taiwan, not China)................ All for $1400. The lathe had a 5hp 3 phase motor in it but I put a 3hp single phase for my shop power. ................................... I got my eye on a 2 axis CNC mill I just have to borrow a trailer and get there. What is your opinion of the Universal Kwik-Switch 200 tooling beside darn expensive since there is no import? It's on a 5hp Tree mill, big American iron.





srcarr52 said:


> It's not a lathe but I came home with this guy yesterday. ................



Shaun, 

I assume you will not be trying to put a single phase on the mill. The rotary's work well just another switch at the beginning of the day. 

I was just through Coralville a few hours ago. In last few weeks I think I have been there more than here. The IA City schools dumped some DAMMMM nice equipment a few weeks ago


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## srcarr52 (Jun 20, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> If you are going with an import QC Post, take a good look at the Phase II.
> 
> Later
> Dan



Yes, there are some great deals to be had on Phase II QCTP's and they are of pretty good quality. Once you have a decent toolpost you can buy more of the really cheap #2 style tool holders.


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## machinisttx (Jun 20, 2013)

I would not put a DRO on a lathe. Waste of money in my opinion, as I've never seen one that both axis worked on for very long. Chips _always_ find their way into one of the scales, and then you either spend a few hundred more on another scale, or have a single axis DRO. I'd much rather have a trav-a-dial.


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## Stihl 041S (Jun 20, 2013)

machinisttx said:


> I would not put a DRO on a lathe. Waste of money in my opinion, as I've never seen one that both axis worked on for very long. Chips _always_ find their way into one of the scales, and then you either spend a few hundred more on another scale, or have a single axis DRO. I'd much rather have a trav-a-dial.



Can't agree there. 

Cover the scales. 

Got two scales, 3 readouts on the W&S 2A. 2 shifts of 10 hrs a day. Been there for ten years. Same scales. one over 6' long. Tons of material. 40 HP. Lots of cast iron. 

Couldn't do with out it. Much more accurate than dials. Especially than the tiny ones on cheaper lathes. 

End of rant. 

And the Multifix tool holder will ruin you for all others. 

Pricey......but worth it. 

My $.02


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## Brownthumb (Mar 28, 2020)

Is a nice Atlas worth 1000 bucks with a stand


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## Ketchup (Mar 29, 2020)

“Nice” is relative. Atlas lathes can be craftsmans or clauseing, and the quality is worlds apart. You have to research the individual model to know its value and issues. Personally I would wait on something else if I had a grand to spend (actually selling my Logan 820 right now for $1100). Atlas lathes are notorious for bad wear points that are a bear to fix. 

There is also the question of tooling. It’s easy to spend $1000 on the tools you need if the Lathe doesn’t come with them. Chucks and collets, tool posts and rests cost a premium if bought separately. Be patient and haggle.


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## Brownthumb (Mar 29, 2020)

Nice Is a broad word.
She wears her original Paint, I love the look of her.
But this girl is like 70 yrs old. She has some road rash on her but still has a few miles left on her.
I got her for 1000. They wanted 2000.
She is still tight but unfortunately someone thought Grease was better than oil So I’m tearing her down a little and cleaning all that crap out of her.
Someone put a vsd on her with reverse. I might pull that off and put her back to stock.
I have no patience.


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## wise wood (Mar 30, 2020)

Well I have read a lot of replies, some good. some not so good. I had 42 years as a tool &die man.tolerances were
always .ooo1 and we mostly did carbide. my 2ct. make sure you can swing the largest diam you expect to do and
get something with a spindle I,d, of at least 1in. some of the machines mentioned only have 5/8 bore which you
most likely will find not to be large enough . we had Hardinge tool room lathes and Bridgeport mill. 
Harding lathes will hold .0005 all day long with a experienced operator. what ever you get make sure you 
a full saddle that rides the ways with power feed. 
One more thing I would recommend if you are going to be boring with the machine is a set of EVEREDE BORING BARS,
because you can bore flat bottom hole with them and the will bore in a hole that is smaller than the bar itself. 
I retired 20yr ago and I bought a grizzly gunsmith lathe and it does everything I need .
Wisewood


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## Brownthumb (Mar 31, 2020)

I went to tech for machine shop but hated doing it for a living. 
I would not try to turn my backhoe spindles on it.
For turning a cylinder base and cutting the squish area I think it will work fine. 
I can’t fit no more equipment in the detached garage so I needed a lathe I could get into the basement.
This fit my bill per say And I dident want to buy a Chinese cheap piece of rice.
These are The American Harbor Freight of the early days.
Im having a good time just giving her a good work over.


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## Brownthumb (Apr 1, 2020)

I’m getting her dialed in per say.


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## Ketchup (Apr 2, 2020)

I had to switch to a brass hammer. I got too agressive with that particular dialing instrument.


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## Brownthumb (Apr 2, 2020)

Ketchup said:


> I had to switch to a brass hammer. I got too agressive with that particular dialing instrument.


That’s what they make thread files for. Somebody had no clue What a set screw was.
headstock done. Runs smooth.


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## motorhead99999 (Apr 3, 2020)

I have a old craftsman bench top lathe that I use often. Also have a 6’ lathe but find my self using the little one more. Picked it up on cL for 100$ bought it from a guy who’s dad was a machinist for General Electric. It came with enough bits, boring bars and ect.. to fill a 5 gallon pail


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## Brownthumb (Apr 4, 2020)

I wish I would have bought a Chinese piece of crapola. I crashed the carriage into the tail stock when I was interrupted by arguing kids.
It’s gonna cost like 200 bucks to replace these gears. They don’t have a shear pin on these things. Sellers think these parts are GOLD.
That did not stop me tho I got the 55 jug cut and the squish landed right on 20 the first try.


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## arto_wa (Apr 5, 2020)

Your Atlas looks like a good solid lathe, I sure hope you can still get new gears for it.

Last summer I bought one of these (JET BD-920N) locally from a retired knife maker and it came with a couple of extra chucks etc.
It obviously is a small chinese lathe with a swing 9", distance center to center 20" but I am OK with that - one of my requirements was to have gearing for both, inch and metric threads.

Should not be too hard to resell later if I wanted something bigger but so far so good!


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## Huskybill (Apr 5, 2020)

I had a 6” atlas new, a 9” southbend, but always needed a bigger bore through spindle. Having two lathes wasn’t enough.


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## Kebo57 (Apr 20, 2022)

Anyone out there got a Hardinge HLVH lathe as I have one also


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## Ketchup (Apr 21, 2022)

I wish.


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## Stihl 041S (Apr 23, 2022)

Kebo57 said:


> Anyone out there got a Hardinge HLVH lathe as I have one also


When a company set me up with a shop we got a new one. 
Ran only Hardinge for small lathes. 
The Bees Knees. 
NOTHING is better to thread on in the manual world. 
True within .000,020” when new. Well...... the worst you will get is .000,020”......lol
Amazing lathes. 
One will be my retirement gift to me. Wonderful for revolver work.


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## Team FAST (Apr 24, 2022)

Just now saw this thread. Did Brad ever get a lathe?


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## Stihl 041S (Apr 25, 2022)

Team FAST said:


> Just now saw this thread. Did Brad ever get a lathe?


Years ago.


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## Kebo57 (May 1, 2022)

Hi yeah they are top lathes
I was a Turner back in the day worked piece work on one I bought one when factory closed.


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