# Fuel stabilizer for chain saw



## taskswap (Jan 6, 2013)

Just brainstorming here...

I'm going through scrounge after scrounge this winter, and haven't really ever felt like it was time to "put away" my chain saw. I'm no arborist, but I'm definitely using it at least 6 hours a month - usually a couple of hours every weekend, give or take.

I've never really been at the point where I felt like I should be draining the fuel or running the stabilizer through it. I don't really know what's in the stuff, though. I'm wondering if I should just do that "winter maintenance" cycle just for pure maintenance reasons even if I'm still using it all the time. I like this saw and want to keep it healthy a long time. What do you guys do when you're not actually putting the saw into long term storage?


----------



## dustytools (Jan 6, 2013)

I always run Sta-Bil in my mix. I just never know how long it will be until I use the two strokes again with my work schedule and all. Its pretty cheap insurance.


----------



## Nosmo (Jan 6, 2013)

*Stabilizer*

There is Sta-bil for non-leaded gasoline. There is Ethanol Sta-bil for Ethanol gasoline. Another stabilizer is an additive which is in Sthil's 2-cycle oil .

I've used the Ethanol Sta-bil for my log splitter and riding mowers and have had no problems later on when I wanted to use either of them. For my chainsaws I just use the Stihl 2-cycle oil I mentioned above.

Nosmo


----------



## groundup (Jan 6, 2013)

The best thing you can do for a 2 stoke engine is run it regularly.

I run mine about like you do and use Stihl oil, which as mentioned has stabilizers in it.


----------



## gugge (Jan 6, 2013)

I use Stab-bil in all my outdoor equipment. I put it in the gas can befrore going to fill them up. Has always worked well for me everything starts right up when needed.


----------



## deutzman (Jan 6, 2013)

I just started using StarTron. Read a lot of reviews and many good ones. The flyer that the cashier gave me said it can keep gas fresh up to 2 years. Online I've read a year or more. $5.99(Oreillys) for 8 ounces and 1 ounce treats 6 gal. and is rated for E10. I'll use it on all my lawn and garden engines and both Dolmars. I can still get ethanol free gas here local but if that disappears I'll try it on E10.

Asked if they stocked Startron at Oreillys and the gal said they didn't carry it. When I said chainsaws she said wait a minute. They had it stored behind the counter with the Stihl 2 stroke oil mix.


----------



## flashhole (Jan 6, 2013)

opcorn:


----------



## brenndatomu (Jan 6, 2013)

At work we use the little 2 cycle oil packettes, just mix with 2.5 gallons of gas, ready to go. They have stabilizer in them already, we just run that all the time, good insurance. At home I'm burning up a couple gallons of Yamalube 2 snowmobile oil in my saws, weedeaters, etc, so I have to add the stabilizer, which I still run almost all the time.

I just ran across the Startron brand at the local NAPA recently, bought some to try in the gas and also the stuff for the diesel equipment too. If it works half as good as they claim, I will be buying more.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 6, 2013)

I've never used a stabilizer in 2-cycle engines... I use Stihl oil, which contains a stabilizer and I've never had an issue (but I dump the tanks if I think they'll sit for more than a few days).
I use Sta-Bil in the portable generator and swap out the fuel every 12-months. Even so, the last 6-gallons went bad in less than 6-months... put fresh, non-ethanol, 91-octane with Sta-Bil added in it last July and when I tried a test run in December the fuel had soured (it seemed fine in October).
The only time I use Sta-Bil in other 4-cycle power equipment is when I put them away for the season (fill 'em up with Sta-Bil treated fuel)... the stuff I run year round never gets it.

Side note - I never use ethanol-blended fuel in anything... ever!


----------



## REJ2 (Jan 6, 2013)

Many of the name brand mix oils, Stihl, Husky, Echo, and others already have a stabilizer in them. I dont add any more, no problems yet.


----------



## 084 (Jan 6, 2013)

Star-tron hands down. Kiss replacing carburetor 's good by!


----------



## unclemoustache (Jan 6, 2013)

What about SeaFoam? This stuff any good?


----------



## JeffHK454 (Jan 6, 2013)

I've never ran stabilizer in anything I've owned. Weather it's a 2 or 4 stroke when I'm done useing it I toss it in the shed never knowing if it's the last time that it will get used for the year. 

Maybe my Cincy weather lets me get away with that..to be truthful I've always thought those additives are snakeoil.


----------



## VTWoodchuck (Jan 6, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> I've never used a stabilizer in 2-cycle engines... I use Stihl oil, which contains a stabilizer and I've never had an issue (but I dump the tanks if I think they'll sit for more than a few days).
> I use Sta-Bil in the portable generator and swap out the fuel every 12-months. Even so, the last 6-gallons went bad in less than 6-months... put fresh, non-ethanol, 91-octane with Sta-Bil added in it last July and when I tried a test run in December the fuel had soured (it seemed fine in October).
> The only time I use Sta-Bil in other 4-cycle power equipment is when I put them away for the season (fill 'em up with Sta-Bil treated fuel)... the stuff I run year round never gets it.
> 
> Side note - I never use ethanol-blended fuel in anything... ever!



I'm curious how you test your fuel. I've heard of testing it for water but not for being "sour". Is it a kit?


----------



## indiansprings (Jan 6, 2013)

We recommend that customers mix as small as 2 cycle mix as they can so they will use it up and keep it fresh. Use one gallon if it will get you by, we recommend MARINE stabil or Starton, and we tell customer's not to let fuel sit in saws longer than 3 months or keep fuel longer than 3 months. Personally, I use Ultra at 40:1 because Ultra has 20% more lubricicity than convential oil, 40% more detergents for less carbon build up and a additive that protects the brass and copper in the carbs and protect the system from ethanol for 3 months.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 6, 2013)

unclemoustache said:


> *What about SeaFoam? This stuff any good?*



SeaFoam is not a fuel stabilizer, it’s a fuel treatment that lubricates moving parts, absorbs free water, dissolves gum/varnish, and slightly raises the octane rating of fuel… but it will not “stabilize” (retard the oxidation process).

SeaFoam contains just three things…

Pale Oil (mineral oil)
Naphtha (lighter fluid)
 Isopropyl Alcohol

SeaFoam is the most effective when used _after_ the fuel has gone bad and the carb has gummed/varnished up. Say, for example, you left the fuel tank of your mower half full over winter, the fuel went bad and the carb gummed up… now it won’t start. Often you can dump the old fuel, put a healthy dose of SeaFoam and fresh fuel in it, pull it/crank it over a few times to distribute the mix, dump a little straight SeaFoam directly in the air intake of the carb, and let it sit overnight. The next day put a new plug in it and you probably have an 80% chance it will start after a few pulls/cranks… let it run for a while to finish “cleaning up” the carb, then change oil. I knew a guy that ran a small engine repair shop for years… in the spring, when people would bring in their mowers because they wouldn’t start, that was his standard “spring tune-up” (along with sharpening blades). I don’t remember what he charged, but he told me he saved more time and made more money doing that, rather than pulling carburetors… heck, he could “fix” and tune-up over a dozen mowers and garden tillers a day that way (he did the same thing with snow blowers in the fall).

Actually you can make your own SeaFoam if you want… just mix 5 parts mineral oil (or automatic transmission oil) with 3 parts lighter fluid (or even camp stove fuel) and 2 parts isopropyl alcohol (approximate for all three, it don’t have to be exact). Heck, a couple of years ago dad’s tiller wouldn’t start... the fuel in the tank was plain rancid. I dumped it and poured in fresh fuel but it still wouldn’t start. I couldn’t find the can of SeaFoam I was sure I had, so I just dumped in some tranny oil, lighter fluid and isopropyl with out measuring… all by guess-and-b’gosh. It surprised the heck out’a me when it fired up on the fifth pull the next day… smoked like crazy for a couple minutes and settled right in.

But it can not “stabilize” fuel… it does not contain an oxidation inhibitor.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 6, 2013)

VTWoodchuck said:


> *I'm curious how you test your fuel. I've heard of testing it for water but not for being "sour". Is it a kit?*



LOL... "Sour" is just my word for "bad". Ain't no science to it, I just use my nose and eyes. The "smell" of gasoline changes as it goes bad, at first it's subtle, barely noticeable unless you know what you're "smelling" for, but steadily gets worse... it comes through experience. The other thing that happens to gas as it "sours" is it changes in appearance...at first it gets a little cloudy, or milky (again, subtle and barely noticeable... experience), but eventually turns "dark" as varnishes and gums form.


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 6, 2013)

If you guys/gals are worried about you gas going _*"Sour"*_ only buy it one gallon at a time and if you have any gas left after three weeks dump it in your car/truck; each of those (car/truck) can stand *"Sour"* gas better than a one cylinder chain saw 



_*JMO*_


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 6, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> ...dump it in your car/truck; each of those (car/truck) can stand *"Sour"* gas better than a one cylinder chain saw



Yeah, you got that right, especially these new-fangled, computer controlled, compensation fuel systems.
All my "questionable", and "bad" gas goes right in the wife's mini-van. Her van sucked up that "sour" 6-gallons I drained from the generator without so much as a hiccup... but the generator wouldn't start unless i squirted a bit of good fuel directly in the cylinder through the spark plug port, then it ran like crap.


----------



## Vibes (Jan 9, 2013)

All good advice above. But I'm gonna add that I don't buy Hi Test in the winter. That gas has been sitting in underground storage since around August when the lawn mower crews, and the motorcycle guys start putting away there machines. I used to pump a little bit of gas in the truck, then fill a Mason jar full and let it sit for a minute or 2 and see what happened. Well the mason jar never looked good this time of year so I just quit doing that and bought 87 octane and added octane boost.

I know its another additive but the 87 octane gas was always fresh and I figure fresh gas is better than old gas. Its a ##### mixing, and adding but the gas is crap these days. Ethanol will be looked upon as one of the biggest economic disasters that was ever put over the head of the American public in years to come. Gas that comes out of the pump today is very differant than the gas we had when Stabil was first brought out. The old red Stabil was made to keep the old gas from turning into Shelac. It doesn't work for ethanol that is a corn alcohol that absorbs moisture from the atmosphere, and disolves and evaporates fast. 

I check my gas cans whenever I put gas in them and clean out all the moisture curdles that are left in them. I pull the mufflers on my saws every so often just to see what it looks like down there. I tune my carbs every time I go to cut, and when that saw starts cutting better than it should, I shut it down and grab the other saw. Lean seisures are a ##### also and usually happen when that saw is screaming along.

I also swear by Star Tron, and Maxima octane boost.


----------



## John R (Jan 9, 2013)

dustytools said:


> I always run Sta-Bil in my mix. I just never know how long it will be until I use the two strokes again with my work schedule and all. Its pretty cheap insurance.



+1 

I mix Sta-Bil, and my oil in when I buy gas.
I do the same for all my 4 stroke yard equipment.


----------



## Streblerm (Jan 9, 2013)

I use the marine formula Stabil because it takes less than the regular formula. I figure that way I'm not displacing as much fuel in the mix and throwing the ratio out of whack. I use it in all my *** fuel and in my truck since I don't put a lot of miles on it and often times I use the gas from the truck's tank in the ***.


----------



## Marc (Jan 9, 2013)

Can't get anything except 10% ethanol fuel around here. I use a product called Ethanol Shield, on recommendation of my local Husky dealer, and seems to have worked well so far.


----------



## Boogieman142 (Jan 9, 2013)

have never used any stabilizer in anything I've owned. My neighbor does and I'm always fixing his carbs. If its been sitting for a little while then it gets dumped. I also use ethanol free tho.


----------



## Vibes (Jan 9, 2013)

Marc said:


> Can't get anything except 10% ethanol fuel around here. I use a product called Ethanol Shield, on recommendation of my local Husky dealer, and seems to have worked well so far.



Many products out there now for the same reason. My J-Red dealer sells another brand that I can't remember the name. The orange Stabil I think is being phased out by the blue Stabil because people like blue better than orange. Same stuff!! But I think people are still thinking the old red Stabil is the same as the Marine grade stuff and its not.


----------



## reaperman (Jan 9, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> I use Sta-Bil in the portable generator and swap out the fuel every 12-months. Even so, the last 6-gallons went bad in less than 6-months... put fresh, non-ethanol, 91-octane with Sta-Bil added in it last July and when I tried a test run in December the fuel had soured (it seemed fine in October).
> The only time I use Sta-Bil in other 4-cycle power equipment is when I put them away for the season (fill 'em up with Sta-Bil treated fuel)... the stuff I run year round never gets it.



How do you test to see if the gas has soured?


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 9, 2013)

reaperman said:


> *How do you test to see if the gas has soured?*



You haven't read all the posts in this thread... have you?
Check out post #17 on this page.


----------



## WidowMaker (Jan 9, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> SeaFoam is not a fuel stabilizer, it’s a fuel treatment that lubricates moving parts, absorbs free water, dissolves gum/varnish, and slightly raises the octane rating of fuel… but it will not “stabilize” (retard the oxidation process).
> 
> SeaFoam contains just three things…
> 
> ...



======

According to my can of Sea Foam, you would be mistaken about that...


----------



## PEKS (Jan 9, 2013)

I winterized all my Stihl Kit with STIHL MotoMix® (pre-mixed non-ethanol, 92 octane fuel & STIHL HP Ultra Oil)..
Saws really do not get much down time..


----------



## allstihl (Jan 9, 2013)

i take care of all the small engines at work as well as my stuff. since ive started added marine stabil to the gas as soon as its bought ive had allmost no problems.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 9, 2013)

WidowMaker said:


> *According to my can of Sea Foam, you would be mistaken about that...*



According to your can of Sea Foam, it does a lot of things...
Anybody wanna' place bets on how many of them they guarantee?


----------



## Nickolas (Jan 9, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> SeaFoam is not a fuel stabilizer, it’s a fuel treatment that lubricates moving parts, absorbs free water, dissolves gum/varnish, and slightly raises the octane rating of fuel… but it will not “stabilize” (retard the oxidation process).
> 
> SeaFoam contains just three things…
> 
> ...




I have to disagree with you on Sea Foam. It is an excellent fuel stabilizer and is also used to fog engines for seasonal storage as well as a carbon cleaner. I have been using and selling it for years and it is a great product. I have talked in depth with a man that worked at the company for over 40 years and backs it up 100%. When I worked in Auto parts we couldn't keep it on the shelves. Same thing with PB Blaster if anyone is familiar with that product. It is an excellent penetrant and water disperser among many other uses. As for sea foam I have been using it for years and it has never let me down. I have always recommended it for many uses and use it every season for boating as well as the chain saw. I don't know anyone that will disagree with me on Sea Foam. People always talk about how great it is and I totally agree. One of the best chemicals on the shelf alongside PB Blaster.

Nick


----------



## cheeves (Jan 9, 2013)

deutzman said:


> I just started using StarTron. Read a lot of reviews and many good ones. The flyer that the cashier gave me said it can keep gas fresh up to 2 years. Online I've read a year or more. $5.99(Oreillys) for 8 ounces and 1 ounce treats 6 gal. and is rated for E10. I'll use it on all my lawn and garden engines and both Dolmars. I can still get ethanol free gas here local but if that disappears I'll try it on E10.
> 
> Asked if they stocked Startron at Oreillys and the gal said they didn't carry it. When I said chainsaws she said wait a minute. They had it stored behind the counter with the Stihl 2 stroke oil mix.



Startron's great stuff!! Sten rep turned me onto it about 5 years ago. Before that had trouble with all my Husqvarna chainsaws.. Now all OK!!!
If Govt goes to 15% Ethanol going to the local airport though for chainsaw gas!!!


----------



## WidowMaker (Jan 9, 2013)

Whitespider said:


> According to your can of Sea Foam, it does a lot of things...
> Anybody wanna' place bets on how many of them they guarantee?


=====


I'll go with my can...


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 10, 2013)

You mean the can that says “_Stabilizes fuel for up to two years_”? Really? Two years? Are you “going” with that?

Listen; if gasoline (non-oxygenated gasoline) is stored properly it could theoretically remain “good” indefinitely, without any fuel stabilizer added… i.e. in a totally sealed container, totally void of any oxygen (basically in a vacuum container). Gasoline turns bad, stale, sour, or whatever you want to call it in two ways (I won’t address moisture, because it doesn’t chemically change gasoline)…

*Loss of volatility.* The volatiles, the lighter fractions that cause gasoline to readily vaporize, evaporate out. No “stabilizer” can stop or slow this process; the best defense against vaporization is to store gasoline in a sealed container as near full as possible. Many fuel additives (or stabilizers) add more volatiles, such as the naphtha in SeaFoam… but this isn’t “stabilization”, it’s just adding more volatiles so it requires more time before vaporization causes stale gas. I don’t care how much SeaFoam you add to gasoline… store it in an open bucket and it will be “bad” because of vaporization in just a day or two, certainly nothing close to two years. If you’re gonna’ “_go with your can_”, ya’ better read the whole can, because it also tells you how to “store” your gas.
*Oxidation.* Just as oxidation is a chemical process that converts iron into iron oxide (rust), the oxidation process converts gasoline into something else, eventually resulting in the formation of solids (gums and varnishes). This is the major problem with today’s “oxygenated” gasoline… because it has oxygen in it even storing it in a vacuum won’t stop the oxidation process. Whereas years ago, gasoline would often go stale from vaporization long before oxidation created issues, the situation has been reversed… today’s gasoline can go “bad” from oxidation in a very short time, as short as a few days. The process can be slowed significantly by adding chemicals with antioxidant properties, such as butylhydroxytoluene… but there are others. This is “stabilization”… actually slowing down the chemical break down process.
SeaFoam does not contain an antioxidant. Rather than slow the oxidation process it uses solvents to keep the solids (gums and varnishes) in liquid form… but the fuel is still oxidizing (going bad) at the same rate! SeaFoam protects your equipment from “gumming up”, but it does not protect your fuel from oxidizing! All you need to do is go to the SeaFoam website and read the “_how it works_” section…


> _*Helps stabilize fuel. Sea Foam Motor Treatment adds volatility, dissolves and prevents varnish formation in the fuel, this is also important for fuel storage and when storing vehicles and equipment helping to keep carburetor jets or fuel injectors clean. Sea Foam can help stabilize fuels for up to two years. Always run the engine for a long enough period of time to assure the Sea Foam Motor treatment has been drawn through the entire system fuel system for complete protection.*_


Notice it makes no claim whatsoever to the prevention of fuel oxidation. That doesn’t make SeaFoam necessarily “bad”… because it does protect the equipment from “gumming up”. But if you have need for actual “fuel stabilization” there are products that will do that… Sta-Bil being one. What good does it do me to have a non-gummed up carb on my emergency generator if the fuel is too far gone to make it run? The generator is for emergency purpose… I need to protect the 6-gallons of fuel in it just as much as I need to protect the equipment itself. Now a lawn mower is different; as long as the carb doesn’t plug up… I guess if that half-gallon of fuel goes bad it ain’t a big deal, I can just dump it, pour in a fresh half-gallon, and keep crankin’ until it sucks all the bad fuel from the float bowl. It ain’t like I’m standing out there in a blizzard at 3:00 AM, with no electricity, freezing my arse off, trying to get the damn thing running.

But hey… what ever floats your boat.


----------



## kmcinms (Jan 10, 2013)

*Stabilize this*

Most all good 2 stroke oil has fuel stabilizer in it. You guys ever wonder how there is enough _*stabilizer*_ in the oil to stabilize the fuel when you aren't using any more mix oil than you ever did when there wasn't stabilizer in it? :msp_confused:
Confused yet?
Think about it. You use at least one ounce of _*stabilizer*_ per gallon, yet you aren't using any more mix oil than you ever have. So how are they getting all that fuel stabilization out of the small amount of mix oil???? :msp_unsure:

BTW, for all the Marine Stabil users, the main active ingredient in Marine Stabil is ........wait for it.......deodorized kerosene. 
I use kerosene in my fuel as a stabilizer, never have a problem. One ounce to a gallon. No more sour fuel. But I also try to use it before 3 months.


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 10, 2013)

kmcinms said:


> *BTW, for all the Marine Stabil users, the main active ingredient in Marine Stabil is... deodorized kerosene.*



That's not quite true... he current MSDS for Marine Sta-Bil shows 80% Petroleum Distillate (unspecified) and 20% Additive Mixture (proprietary). The Petroleum Distillate (which may or may not be kerosene) is mostly the carrier for the "active" ingredients in the 20% proprietary Additive Mixture. For reference, regular Sta-Bil is 95% Petroleum Distillate (unspecified) and 5% Additive Mixture (proprietary)... the two proprietary Additive Mixtures could possibly be different from each other, or possibly not.

And this answers your question about how they get enough *stabilizer* in those little bottles of oil... the 2-stroke oil (often containing Petroleum Distillate) becomes the "carrier" so the miniscule 5% of "active" ingredients use almost no volume at all.

Adding kerosene to your gasoline is not *stabilizing* it... it's simply adding kerosene (a solvent, of sorts) to it.


----------



## kmcinms (Jan 10, 2013)

*I knew you'd be along shortly*

That 5% is agreeable, but it still would seem to take lubricating oil out of the total volume of mix. 

Here it states very clearly that the petroleum distillate is deodorized kerosene. 
http://www.primeautomotive.com/msds/sta-bil_22240_msds.pdf
ICSC:NENG1379 International Chemical Safety Cards (WHO/IPCS/ILO) | CDC/NIOSH

Now, dig deeper and find out what the other 20% is and let us know what you find. :msp_tongue:


----------



## Whitespider (Jan 10, 2013)

OK, so it’s 80% kerosene. But it doesn’t matter, it could be mineral spirits, or mineral oil, or any other petroleum distillate. It ain’t in there for fuel stabilization; it’s in there to make the product convenient for the end user… without it the consumer would have to try and measure two-tenths of an ounce, or in the case of regular Sta-Bil the consumer would need to measure five-hundredths of an ounce.

Now, as to the 5%... normally, MSDS values are given in weight, not volume (although this one doesn’t make it clear). Kerosene is a relatively light distillate, but it’s unknown what the density of the additive mixture is. What we do know (from your links) is that the kerosene’s specific gravity is 0.79-.82, and the vapor density is 4.5. We also know (from your links) that Marine Sta-Bil has a specific gravity of 0.9, and a vapor density of 4.8… indicating the additive mixture is significantly heavier than kerosene. Which means a 5% by weight additive mixture would be somewhat less than 5% by volume… displacing even less 2-stroke oil in the container.

I’m afraid discovering what is in the (proprietary) additive mixture would require a lab analysis; I’m fairly certain Gold Eagle Company ain’t gonna’ just give out the recipe. But if I had to guess… I’m pretty darn confidant it would contain an antioxidant or two.

One more thing… If I remember correctly (and I’m going on nothing but memory), at one time the “carrier” used in Sta-bil was isopropyl alcohol, which gave the added benefit of absorbing moisture. But as it turns out, mixing isopropyl alcohol and ethanol in conjunction with certain chemicals may cause more problems than it cures. Again, if I had to guess, I would say one of the ingredients in the additive mixture was one of those chemicals… causing the change of carrier. That could also explain why the additive mixture is more in Marine Sta-bil… because a moisture absorbing element is added. But, this is just me likely over-analyzing… without any fact to support it.


----------



## kmcinms (Jan 10, 2013)

*Wow, you really do get into this stuff*

Hey, I agree, it's just the carrier. Now find out what the miniscule amount of the magic part we be needing is...... oke: :msp_biggrin:


----------



## dannyrc (Oct 8, 2015)

Marvel Mystery Oil is what I use in everything with gas.


----------



## mn woodcutter (Oct 8, 2015)

Hey raising an old thread from the dead. I like that. I'm a sea foam guy in all my small engines. Right or wrong it's always seemed to work for me!


----------



## sb47 (Oct 9, 2015)

I have many small motors that i use plane old pump gas with 10% ethanol for many years and sometimes leave them sit with fuel in the tank for months.
I never have had a fuel issue. Not even once.
You can get ethanol free racing fuels that you can buy at most motorcycle shops or dealerships.
Race fuel burns at a higher temp, burns longer and burns more completely, giving you more power per stroke.
And with an octane of 105 it gives you more power then pump gas.
I use VP U4.4 or C110 race fuel, and been using it for years.
Pump gas will tend to cause my saw to bog down under a load. Race gas keep it from bogging down and give you more useful power.
And I live in a high humid environment where the ethanol will absorb the humidity from the humid air.
Two stroke oil mixed with gas will last several months before going bad.
I also have a 200 gallon fuel tank that I keep full for storm fuel for my generators. It can sit for 90 days before I start using it, and still no issues.
I do ad a marine grade stable additive in the big tank, just because it may sit for some tome before I get around to using it.
A good carbon fuel cleaner is also good to run through every once in a while.
I have an old weed eater that sat for 5 years with old mixed gas that had been sitting in the weed eater all that time, and she cranked on the second pull.
I think the fuel controversy is a lot of hype for mechanics to sucker people into more work. ( women are big targets for this scam)
Also adding a small amount of automatic transmission oil to your fuel will keep the carbon build up from happening. I put about 16 oz to every 20 gallons.


----------



## BuckMKII (Oct 9, 2015)

I add a splash of Stabil marine but my Bailey's Woodlandpro Syn oil has fuel stabilizers in it. I also use 90 octane E0.


----------



## Marine5068 (Oct 9, 2015)

gugge said:


> I use Stab-bil in all my outdoor equipment. I put it in the gas can befrore going to fill them up. Has always worked well for me everything starts right up when needed.


I do the same. Just pop some Stab-bil into the gas cans before I fill them.


----------



## sb47 (Oct 9, 2015)

One helpful tip in humid areas, is to keep the gas tank full.
With the temperature fluctuations throughout the day, any air pockets in the tank will let air go in and out through expansion. 
The humid air comes in and condensates in the tank and sinks to the bottom, or in the case of ethanol, will mix with the alcohol and you end up with water in the fuel, witch will reak havoc on your carb.


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Oct 10, 2015)

a good way to revive dead gas dump a full can of berryman b12 to 5 gallons of gas it has enough toulene and acetone to wake it up so it will burn better.


----------



## USMC615 (Oct 10, 2015)

Use Star-Tron stabilizer and a couple of capfuls of Sea Foam in all my straight, non ethanol gas cans and pre-mix cans for all my ***. Zero failures in years.


----------



## Whitespider (Oct 10, 2015)

Gasoline can and will go sour... no rhyme or reason to it.

I tried to start my splitter last week that had been sitting for about 5 or 6 weeks with a full tank of non-ethanol pump gas. It wouldn't even pop, and after a half dozen pulls on the rope I could smell the bad fuel coming from the exhaust. I took the cap off the tank and it smelled fine... so I drained the float bowl (that fuel smelled real bad) until the fuel in it was replaced. It started on the second pull... just the fuel in the float bowl was bad, the fuel in the tank was fine.

A couple years ago I had a full tank (6 gallon) of 91 octane non-ethanol go bad in my generator... that fuel was less than 2 months old and had been treated with fuel stabilizer. It was so bad I couldn't even get the generator to start... not even a sputter. But, the 91 octane non-ethanol I have in the generator now is nearly a year old, and the generator pops right off every monthly test run.

The generator is the only thing I use a fuel stabilizer in... and I use no additives of any other sort in any of the other dozen or so small engines.
Any quality two-cycle oil already contains fuel stabilizers, so does the gas you buy at the pump (all additive packages contain stabilizer)... and ethanol blended gasoline contains more stabilizers than the non-ethanol. If you use a quality two-cycle oil there ain't any need to add anything else... it won't hurt anything... but there ain't any need.
*


----------



## USMC615 (Oct 10, 2015)

Cranked my saws up this afternoon, as well as my two generators. Just to give them a little idle, run time, and burn some fuel. I'm gonna stick to my guns, the Star-Tron and Sea Foam. Pennies on the dollar for 'added' protection...I'm all in. Juss sayin.


----------



## flashhole (Oct 10, 2015)

About a month ago I ran my generator until it ran out of fuel that had been in it for over a year. I used a stabilizer and it clearly worked. I'm a big fan of non-ethanol gas for all small engines.


----------



## sb47 (Oct 10, 2015)

Try VP fuels, They come just about any way you could want, Ethanol, leaded, unleaded, high/low octane.
Been using it for many years. 
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/


----------



## benp (Oct 10, 2015)

I am fortunate enough to have this locally.


----------



## Whitespider (Oct 11, 2015)

flashhole said:


> *About a month ago I ran my generator until it ran out of fuel that had been in it for over a year. I used a stabilizer and it clearly worked.*


How do you know it clearly worked??
Did you store some of the exact same fuel untreated with stabilizer and compare the two??

Listen... I ain't sayin' it didn't work, but there ain't any proof it did neither.
*


----------



## flashhole (Oct 11, 2015)

I guess you're correct on that. Let me just say I expected a problem because it sat for so long but it started right up on the second pull and ran without hiccup until there was no more gas. It convinced me the stabilizer was doing its job.


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Oct 11, 2015)

i use pri g it is the only one i have found that works you can mix it in a can of ethanol free and come back to it in 3 years still fresh its keeps E10 fresh for 18 months.


----------



## USMC615 (Oct 11, 2015)

jakewells said:


> i use pri g it is the only one i have found that works you can mix it in a can of ethanol free and come back to it in 3 years still fresh its keeps E10 fresh for 18 months.


'Pri g'??...can you expound a little more?


----------



## sundance (Oct 11, 2015)

USMC615 said:


> 'Pri g'??...can you expound a little more?



http://www.priproducts.com/pdfs/PRI-G For Small Engines Brochure.pdf

That should help.......I've used this, seafoam, sta-bil. Figure none can hurt, haven't settled on any as "the elixir".


----------



## sb47 (Oct 11, 2015)

flashhole said:


> I guess you're correct on that. Let me just say I expected a problem because it sat for so long but it started right up on the second pull and ran without hiccup until there was no more gas. It convinced me the stabilizer was doing its job.


Gas pumps are required to have a sticker that says it "MAY" contain up 10% ethanol. It doesn't mean it has ethanol in it, but that it may.


----------



## CrufflerJJ (Oct 11, 2015)

jakewells said:


> i use pri g it is the only one i have found that works you can mix it in a can of ethanol free and come back to it in 3 years still fresh its keeps E10 fresh for 18 months.



I've also used PRI-G for years. Normal E10 with PRI-G, stored for up to 2 years in steel jerry cans works just fine in our mower, cars, and generators. Haven't tried gas that old in any saws, though.


----------



## Whitespider (Oct 11, 2015)

sb47 said:


> *Gas pumps are required to have a sticker that says it "MAY" contain up 10% ethanol. It doesn't mean it has ethanol in it, but that it may.*


Texas law ain't the same as every other State...
For example, Iowa law says any pump dispensing gasoline containing 1% or more ethanol must be labeled as containing ethanol.
But on the flip, several States do not require any label of any sort... Minnesota, Kentucky, Nevada, New Jersey, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, and others...
Meaning your post is only valid in Texas... our stickers do not have the word "MAY" on them, and several States don't even require stickers of any sort.
*


----------



## USMC615 (Oct 11, 2015)

Simply buy and use a fuel stabilizer...pennies on the dollar. It's a safeguard I'm willing to sell my soul on...again...zero failures in years. What else ya want me to tell ya??...is what it is.


----------



## Whitespider (Oct 12, 2015)

USMC615 said:


> *Simply buy and use a fuel stabilizer...pennies on the dollar. It's a safeguard I'm willing to sell my soul on...again...zero failures in years. What else ya want me to tell ya??...is what it is.*


Ahhhhhh yes... it-is-what-it-is.

I've never used any stabilizer or additive in two-cycle mix (other than what's in the oil)... I've had zero failures (fuel going bad) in over 35 years.
Although, I've never used an ethanol blended fuel for two-cycle mix neither... I don't use ethanol blended fuel in anything.

But, I have had failures with gasoline (going bad) in the four-cycles, both treated and untreated with fuel stabilizer... both regular grade (87 octane) and premium grade (91-93 octane). None of those failures, with and without stabilizer added, were related to long-term storage... a few weeks to a couple months. That suggests to me that stabilizer effectiveness (if there is any) is entirely dependent on the condition of the fuel when the stabilizer is added... stabilizer won't make a silk purse from a sow's ear... it won't extend the shelf life of fuel that's already started to "sour".

My gut feeling is that fuel stabilizers are mostly snake oil... although it don't hurt anything to use them. As I said, I use a stabilizer in the generator (it can't hurt), which is intended to be stored full of fuel for long-term. Because I have had failures in it, I don't trust it, I check the fuel and test run it every month... and replace the fuel every 12 months or so. But the seasonal equipment like the grass cutters, pressure washer, snow thrower, tiller and such... I just fill 'em up full and park 'em (shrug). I dump out the the tanks of the seasonal small two-cycles like the weed whip, leaf blower and whatnot.
*


----------



## sb47 (Oct 15, 2015)

Well the other day I pulled out both my Honda 3000i generators to give them there monthly run time to keep them in top shape. As I do every month.
My oldest 10+ years old started right up and I did some leaf blowing while I gave the generator a little light work out.
My newest one only has 19 hours on it and last month it started and ran fine.
You should know I use marine grade fuel stabilizer and keep the fuel tank topped off to keep condensation from building up.
She didn't want to start so I pulled the air filter off and sprayed the carb with carb cleabclener.
Took the bole off and drained it and sprayed carb cleaner up in the float bowl area and blew it out with compressed air.
I drained the fuel tank and took the first sample in a clean glass gar to see if it had water in it. Nope, no water.
I put new fuel in it and had to use the carb cleaner to get it to fire up.
Now it only runs on full choke and more then a 200 watt load will bog it down.
I have it running with new fuel and I hope it clears up with a little run time.
Tomorrow I will go get some seafoam and some fuel injector fuel additive and run that through it in hopes it cleans it and makes a difference.
My splitter fuel was empty so I put the old fuel from the genny in it and split for an hour and she ran fine on the old fuel.
Hopping for the best.


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Oct 16, 2015)

sb47 said:


> Well the other day I pulled out both my Honda 3000i generators to give them there monthly run time to keep them in top shape. As I do every month.
> My oldest 10+ years old started right up and I did some leaf blowing while I gave the generator a little light work out.
> My newest one only has 19 hours on it and last month it started and ran fine.
> You should know I use marine grade fuel stabilizer and keep the fuel tank topped off to keep condensation from building up.
> ...


use berryman b12 in the genny it will give the gas some boost and clean up the fuel system more effectively than the fuel injector cleaner.


----------



## Whitespider (Oct 16, 2015)

sb47 said:


> *Now it only runs on full choke and more then a 200 watt load will bog it down.
> I have it running with new fuel and I hope it clears up with a little run time.*


I see that same symptom quite often with the newer lean running EPA engines... especially when stored or sitting with ethanol blended fuel in the float bowl. I always shut the fuel off (if it has a shut-off valve) and run the carb dry on anything that's gonna' sit for more than a week or so... and I don't even use ethanol.

If it's what I think it is, and assuming you're using an ethanol blend, the chances of it clearing itself up are next to nothing. If it will only run on full choke something in the carb is blocked, likely totally blocked... if it's blocked it won't pull any fuel or additive through it, so it can't clean it. The blockage you're gonna' find is likely to be very hard, almost like plaster or concrete... it's corrosion (oxidation) caused by ethanol phase separation in the carb. If it ran OK last month the damage shouldn't be too bad yet, but the area of the blockage will be more susceptible to corrosion and blockage in the future. If it's a replaceable part, such as a jet, pick-up, check valve, etc., best to get it ordered now, you're gonna' need it eventually.

If it's allowed to fester long enough (which ain't all that long), I've seen carbs that were nothing but a mass of hard white and grey corrosion. The only option is to toss it in the bucket with the rest of 'em, and slap on a new carb... even if ya' can get it cleaned up, the pitting has rendered it worthless.
*


----------



## Coldfront (Oct 16, 2015)

REJ2 said:


> Many of the name brand mix oils, Stihl, Husky, Echo, and others already have a stabilizer in them. I dont add any more, no problems yet.



I have never understood how these name brand oil mixes can contain gas stabilizer in them? When the gas to oil ratio is at 50:1 and the bottle of oil is for one gallon of gas and is only 2.6 oz. of oil. It takes 2.56 oz of oil to get 50:1 and any good gas stabilizer requires .4 oz of stabilizer to one gallon of gas. So the oil bottle if it did have stabilizer in it should be at least 2.96 oz.


----------



## CrufflerJJ (Oct 16, 2015)

Coldfront said:


> I have never understood how these name brand oil mixes can contain gas stabilizer in them? When the gas to oil ratio is at 50:1 and the bottle of oil is for one gallon of gas and is only 2.6 oz. of oil. It takes 2.56 oz of oil to get 50:1 and any good gas stabilizer requires .4 oz of stabilizer to one gallon of gas. So the oil bottle if it did have stabilizer in it should be at least 2.96 oz.



That would be done pretty easily. Most fuel stabilizers you buy are mostly "carrier" or a solvent of some sort. Looking at the MSDS for Sta-Bil shows that it's 5% "additive mixture" (I'm guessing this is the active stabilizer part of the formula) and 95% petroleum distillate. As long as the active stabilizer agent is soluble in the oil, there's no need to add carriers to the mix. 

Stabilizers don't need to be fancy-schmancy. There's a anti-oxidant used in lots of food products called BHT. That can be dissolved in fuel as a stabilizer. It can also be dissolved in vegetable oil for long term storage (so the oils don't go rancid). It takes only a dinky amount - something on the order of 1# BHT in 1000 gallons of fuel.


----------



## Whitespider (Oct 16, 2015)

Coldfront said:


> *...any good gas stabilizer requires .4 oz of stabilizer to one gallon of gas. So the oil bottle if it did have stabilizer in it should be at least 2.96 oz.*


No... that's not true.
Nearly all of that "stabilizer" is nothing more than the "carrier"... mostly tho make it easy for the consumer/user to measure.
This is an old thread... but here's a post from page two (from me ) that addresses your post...
Be sure and read the next couple of posts after it (one of them is mine )... it explains how miniscule the actual amount of "stabilizer" active ingredients really is.

http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...izer-for-chain-saw.220536/page-2#post-4072643
*


----------



## GVS (Oct 16, 2015)

Whitespider said:


> Gasoline can and will go sour... no rhyme or reason to it.
> 
> I tried to start my splitter last week that had been sitting for about 5 or 6 weeks with a full tank of non-ethanol pump gas. It wouldn't even pop, and after a half dozen pulls on the rope I could smell the bad fuel coming from the exhaust. I took the cap off the tank and it smelled fine... so I drained the float bowl (that fuel smelled real bad) until the fuel in it was replaced. It started on the second pull... just the fuel in the float bowl was bad, the fuel in the tank was fine.
> 
> ...


Whitespider is correct regarding good 2 cycle oil having a stabilizer ingredient in it.I go beyond using it in 2 strokers only though- I pour it in the gas tanks of the 4 strokers as well if they are going to be layed up for an extended period.


----------



## row.man (Oct 17, 2015)

I don't bother with stabilizers, I run all my small engines on 100ll (air plane gas) it is ethanol free, as any ethanol would ruin air plane engines. 
I get it free at work, as they sump the fuel trucks and storage tank daily. Then leave the sumps for me.
100LL and 2cycle oil smells so good I wish it came in after shave!
If you are running a leaded fuel in a 4 cycle, you must not run pure synthetic oil. It cannot keep the lead suspended.
A motorcycle racer I worked with thought the lead gave a bit more lube to the cylinder.


----------



## redoakneck (Oct 17, 2015)

Tested some pump gas here in Ohio, had 25% ethanol, should have been max 10%


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Oct 17, 2015)

yikes


----------



## Nickolas (Oct 17, 2015)

Whomever decided ethanol should be put in gasoline is a complete idiot. This crap has caused more engines to grenade than anything else over the last decade. Ask any marine place that works on them and they will tell you how much more they have worked on or replaced motors because of ethanol. Business is booming because of that stuff. I have had many a headache from it myself in my outboards and saws. Let it sit for 60-90 days and good old phase separation kicks in and then you really have a serious problem when you start your boat motor or saw.

A blob of goop gets sucked up and into your engine and if your out on the water full throttle by by motor it will come apart. Luckily around here I have ethanol free pump gas everywhere and seems more and more places are selling it as time goes by. I won't use anything else in any equipment but good gas. In my car not so much an issue but I can tell when good gas is in it. Anything else and hard starting or no starting or the carb coming off to get cleaned out. Just bad stuff period. You let regular gas with 10% ethanol sit around 60-90 days and you will see a blob in the tank where has separation has happened. I wouldn't think twice about anything over 10% content. 25% is totally unacceptable for two strokes it will ruin them real quick . Anyway as long as I have ethanol free gas around me I'm good.


----------



## row.man (Oct 17, 2015)

You do know algore sold us all that ethanol bs. Making it from corn was his evil plot to win Iowa and the white house. 
Just think if he had been prez on 9/11 we could have surrendered to the rag heads a decade earlier, and let them fight it out with the global warming nuts to control the US.
But yeah, thank algore every time you have to pay more for real gasoline.


----------



## CR888 (Oct 17, 2015)

lf its bad gas you buy and add stabilizer.........you end up with bad gas with stabiliser in it. Find a good source of fuel and stick with it, l do feel for many members in the US that find it difficult to buy fresh ethanol free fuel. Legislation regarding ethanol is definately showing big floors in its environmental benefits, let alone all the small engine problems and enviromental costs. These days l feel 'lucky' to have a good source of regular unleaded pump gas and while we have ethanol products here for sale too, its only its lower price that really dictates its use not law.


----------



## Goostoff (Oct 18, 2015)

No stabilizer here either. I run Stihl synthetic oil and all of my toys get Kwik Trip ( local chain to IA and WI) premium ethanol free gas. Boat, 4 wheelers, snowmobiles wood splitter, chainsaws, lawnmowers all get it. If it doesnt get used every day it gets this gas. Little more at ther pump but never had it go bad from sitting


----------



## DrewUth (Oct 19, 2015)

My best advice is to get some race fuel, like CAM2, and run a full tank of that before you stored it away. High octane, leaded and no ethanol. Old guy I used to work for had a CAM2 pump at his shop and everything he had ran that stuff- he had a generator that sat for 4 years with the same fuel in it, started in 5 pulls. Never goes bad. Its expensive, but keep a gallon or two around (unmixed) and just add it or fill up the tanks and let them run to circulate it. Smells great when it burns, and I think it deos a great job of keeping combustion chambers clean, especially on two strokes. You may be able to find VP as well (blue cans) at local motorcycle shops. 

An alternative would be to find a small local airport and buy a gallon or two of AV Gas. I think that stuff is usually around 120 octane? Not positive. CAM2 comes in 114, 118 and I think 120 Octane varieties. 114 is the most common IME.


----------



## GVS (Oct 19, 2015)

Nickolas said:


> Whomever decided ethanol should be put in gasoline is a complete idiot. This crap has caused more engines to grenade than anything else over the last decade. Ask any marine place that works on them and they will tell you how much more they have worked on or replaced motors because of ethanol. Business is booming because of that stuff. I have had many a headache from it myself in my outboards and saws. Let it sit for 60-90 days and good old phase separation kicks in and then you really have a serious problem when you start your boat motor or saw.
> 
> A blob of goop gets sucked up and into your engine and if your out on the water full throttle by by motor it will come apart. Luckily around here I have ethanol free pump gas everywhere and seems more and more places are selling it as time goes by. I won't use anything else in any equipment but good gas. In my car not so much an issue but I can tell when good gas is in it. Anything else and hard starting or no starting or the carb coming off to get cleaned out. Just bad stuff period. You let regular gas with 10% ethanol sit around 60-90 days and you will see a blob in the tank where has separation has happened. I wouldn't think twice about anything over 10% content. 25% is totally unacceptable for two strokes it will ruin them real quick . Anyway as long as I have ethanol free gas around me I'm good.


Strange.I've been using 10% gas since it's been required in NNY and have had ZERO problems with it.It goes in every thing I own that burns gasoline.That includes everything from a weedwhaker to a F250.Four 2 strokes and eight 4 strokes. 
Yes,Gore is a waste!


----------



## Whitespider (Oct 19, 2015)

GVS said:


> *Strange.I've been using 10% gas since it's been required in NNY and have had ZERO problems with it.*


Like I always say... it ain't that you've been lucky so far, it's just that you ain't been _un_lucky... yet.
*


----------



## sb47 (Oct 19, 2015)

Ethanol is the biggest scam portrayed on Americans in a long time.
The idea was to supplement fuel oil to decrease foreign oil dependency. 
Biggest story of the decade.

You have to use fuel to plow the field, then more fuel to fertilize it with petroleum fertilizer.
Then irrigation in the field using more fuel/electricity and depleting ground water.
After it's ready to harvest, more fuel to run combine and grain trucks.
You have to haul it to a desalinated facility for storage.
Then still yet you have to haul it again to a plant that makes bio fuel.
Then more fuel to truck it to a blending plant.
Meanwhile corn prices are going higher and "ALL" corn products get more expensive.
Now please explain to me how this saves or is cheaper then gas with no ethanol?


----------



## Whitespider (Oct 19, 2015)

And don't forget... it requires 1½ gallons of ethanol to equal the energy content of 1 gallon gasoline.
When all is considered, it costs around 95¢ to produce a gallon of gasoline, it cost around $1.75 to produce a gallon of ethanol (that's why fossil fuels, rather than ethanol, are used to produce ethanol... and that's why ethanol increases the price of gasoline).
Again, when all is considered, it requires approximately 131,000 BTUs to produce a gallon of ethanol... a gallon of ethanol contains 77,000 BTUs... a net energy loss of 54,000 BTUs per gallon of ethanol.
The environmental system manipulated to produce corn is being rapidly degraded, corn production erodes or degrades the soil approximately 12 times faster than it can reform... ethanol produced from corn is not a "renewable" fuel.
On average, State and Federal government spends approximately $1 Billion a year subsidizing ethanol to keep the industry afloat... just in tax money alone, a $1 Billion a year net loss‼

Let us not forget humans switched from biomass to fossil fuels millennia ago because biomass was so inefficient, and required a lot of energy and space to produce... technology has not changed what was and what still is. It may be a fact that someday we'll run out'a oil, but ethanol produced from corn ain't anything close to the answer... because without the oil, there ain't no way to mass produce ethanol... using ethanol to produce ethanol is a negative sum game, it would require nearly 2 gallons of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. Ethanol is a huge step backwards... it ain't moving forward.
*


----------



## CrufflerJJ (Oct 19, 2015)

But ADM (& the politicians bought & sold with fuel ethanol money) appreciates our forced use of this "green" wonder fuel.

Time to crank it up to 15%!!!


----------



## melloyello (Oct 19, 2015)

I have 4 chainsaws, a gas trimmer, a leaf blower, log splitter, chipper, lawnmower, pressure washer, generator, etc. I keep (2) 5 gallon jugs full of ethanol free gas around. As soon as I fill those tanks back they get about 2oz each of Sta-bil. I mix 2.5 gallons of gas with one bottle of stihl synthetic mix which also has stabilizer in it. That 2.5 gallons of mix will normally last me an entire fall/winter of cutting firewood. I also make it a point to fire everything up at least once every 2 months. Maybe I go overboard on buying ethanol free fuel and using Sta-bil but I'm not having any issues with gummed up carbs either.
Some people just won't listen though. I clean multiple carbs at home on generators, chainsaws, pressure washers, etc for folks in my neighborhood every year. I also work at a Honda and Stihl dealer and clean carbs all the time. No matter how many times I tell them to do the same as I do they keep coming back every year or every 2 years.


----------



## Whitespider (Oct 20, 2015)

melloyello said:


> *Some people just won't listen though. I clean multiple carbs at home on generators, chainsaws, pressure washers, etc for folks in my neighborhood every year. I also work at a Honda and Stihl dealer and clean carbs all the time. No matter how many times I tell them to do the same as I do they keep coming back every year or every 2 years.*


I have one of those neighbors... almost every spring and/or fall like clockwork he brings me one or two (along with a box of beer). He refuses to believe ethanol is the root of the problem, he believes using it is the "right" thing to do. He may have changed his mind this year though... the stuff rotted a couple pin holes right through the case of his leaf blower and he told me his generator will only run with the choke on.
*


----------

