# New here......how much of a dirt ring......



## Rebecca (Apr 15, 2017)

Hi! First post here. We have three smallish trees in our front yard. One is a magnolia tree. Anyway, grass is all the way up to the trees and I've learned that that's not good for trees. So my question is how big of a dirt ring should I dig around them?
My husband isn't a fan of trees and just as soon cut them down. He already cut down two trees in our backyard including a pear tree. Please help me make these look nice so he won't cut them down. I love trees!!!
Thank you.


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## Jason Douglas (Apr 15, 2017)

Install a mulch ring with a 3-4' radius. Bigger is even better for the tree.


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## Rebecca (Apr 15, 2017)

Jason Douglas said:


> Install a mulch ring with a 3-4' radius. Bigger is even better for the tree.


Thank you Jason. Does it matter what type of multch? I hope that's not a stupid question.☺


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## ropensaddle (Apr 15, 2017)

Rebecca said:


> Thank you Jason. Does it matter what type of multch? I hope that's not a stupid question.☺


Not Jason but organic like wood chips has more benefits for the tree. Of course any mulch will help limit compaction and suppress not eliminate weeds! If you pull the weeds or carefully weed eat them low, then use fabric and then your mulch "it will be less weeds". There is not a maintenance free landscape no matter what people think, weed seed will find a way to propagate. Mulch like wood chips can be added and the weeds that do find their way up are easy to pull! When you mulch don't mulch to the bark start your mulch ten inch from the trunk and mulch to trees drip-line if possible 2 inch deep.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 15, 2017)

Organic mulch creates many benefits to the soil's texture and microbial life. It promotes worm beds that help aerate the soil and adds nutrients the tree can use . It also has a curb appeal.


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## Rebecca (Apr 15, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> When you mulch don't mulch to the bark start your mulch ten inch from the trunk and mulch to trees drip-line if possible 2 inch deep.


Drip line? I'm sorry. I clearly have a lot to learn but am excited!


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## crotchclimber (Apr 15, 2017)

Rebecca said:


> Drip line? I'm sorry. I clearly have a lot to learn but am excited!


The drip line is the edge of the tree's foliage. So if you are standing under the tree and you look up it's where the tree ends and the sky begins.


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## Rebecca (Apr 15, 2017)

crotchclimber said:


> The drip line is the edge of the tree's foliage. So if you are standing under the tree and you look up it's where the tree ends and the sky begins.


Thank you Sir Crotch. Lol


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## Rebecca (Apr 15, 2017)

On more question. I have a small 2-3 year old lilac bush. Does that need a mulch ring as well or are bushes different?


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## ATH (Apr 15, 2017)

(Short answer: yes, mulch for the bushes too)

Think about a tree's natural environment...they don't have to compete with thick sod for moisture and nutrients. Organic ground cover over the root systems is much better than grass. The wider the better.

Materials: just yard waste compost or leaves are probably the best, but they won't stay in place as well as wood chip mulch.

Just say *NO* to landscape fabrics. They severely limit air and water availability under them. They also prevent all of that nice composting mulch from fertilizing the trees.

Here is a picture of some I was cutting up...It was probably down 10-15 years. Look at all the nice black soil on top of the fabric. That is where the roots (from shrubs and perennials - no trees in this bed) are quite happy. Almost zero roots below the fabric. Think about how nice those root systems would have been if that organic material was being pulled down into the clay soil.


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## Rebecca (Apr 15, 2017)

ATH said:


> (Short answer: yes, mulch for the bushes too)
> 
> Think about a tree's natural environment...they don't have to compete with thick sod for moisture and nutrients. Organic ground cover over the root systems is much better than grass. The wider the better.
> 
> ...



Thank you ATH. So you're saying no fabric under flower beds as well?


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## ATH (Apr 15, 2017)

I wouldn't put it anywhere.

*The weeds like the soil that builds up on top of it after a couple of years. So it doesn't stop weeds. Meanwhile, it prevents soil improvement for desirable plants. What is the point?


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## ropensaddle (Apr 15, 2017)

ATH said:


> (Short answer: yes, mulch for the bushes too)
> 
> Think about a tree's natural environment...they don't have to compete with thick sod for moisture and nutrients. Organic ground cover over the root systems is much better than grass. The wider the better.
> 
> ...


I don't use fabric in my yard either but it can help with weeds. I recently was asked to prune out several bradford pears that were planted in a 4 foot planting space in a parking lot with sidewalk and highway on the other side. He asked why they were getting blight and what could be done to slow the process down. I looked and he had black plastic over the whole area except where the trees poked through it. I told him you can start by taking up the mulch and removing that plastic! I thought the higher end fabric was breathable and water permeable ?


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## Rebecca (Apr 15, 2017)

Rebecca said:


> Thank you ATH. So you're saying no fabric under flower beds as well?



Ok. I just told my husband this. He's not thrilled at the idea of "constant weed pulling".
But I think I have him convinced to try it, thank you.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 15, 2017)

ATH said:


> I wouldn't put it anywhere.
> 
> *The weeds like the soil that builds up on top of it after a couple of years. So it doesn't stop weeds. Meanwhile, it prevents soil improvement for desirable plants. What is the point?


Yes; no maintenance free exists even rubber mulch will get weeds.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 15, 2017)

Rebecca said:


> Ok. I just told my husband this. He's not thrilled at the idea of "constant weed pulling".
> But I think I have him convinced to try it, thank you.


I put more mulch down yearly, a top layer and really weeds are minimal and you can plant flower beds etc .


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## ATH (Apr 15, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> .... I thought the higher end fabric was breathable and water permeable ?


That stuff in the picture is high end stuff. This client doesn't do anything but. Further evidence, it is in good shape after 10-15 years in the ground. It allows SOME water/air through, but it limits penetration. I kept a little piece. I need to do a water penetration video. A great bit runs off, some goes through. The "weed prevention" is a myth...at least after the first 1-2 years. I will agree it slows them for a time, but not a long-term help. You spend a bunch of money to put it down. It hurts the plants for many years to come and you are still pulling just as many weeds 5 years later. Try Preen...it prevents weed seeds from sprouting. You'll still get some, but not as many.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 16, 2017)

ATH said:


> That stuff in the picture is high end stuff. This client doesn't do anything but. Further evidence, it is in good shape after 10-15 years in the ground. It allows SOME water/air through, but it limits penetration. I kept a little piece. I need to do a water penetration video. A great bit runs off, some goes through. The "weed prevention" is a myth...at least after the first 1-2 years. I will agree it slows them for a time, but not a long-term help. You spend a bunch of money to put it down. It hurts the plants for many years to come and you are still pulling just as many weeds 5 years later. Try Preen...it prevents weed seeds from sprouting. You'll still get some, but not as many.


I'll give it a go thanks, I been torching the garden, slows it some too, you can hear the seeds popping! I really don't mind pulling weeds, two summers ago I was taking care of my garden and a commercial sized raised bed garden about 150 feet long times ten rows. When your pulling two one ton dump loads it can seem tedious Really though if the soils right weeds pull easy And soon the desirable plants help shade them out. I'm a firm believer in the power of wood chips to improve soil. I had a Quercus alba that was used as target practice by kids for years it was showing signs of decline. I been putting chips down on it for 6 years now and it is totally healed itself and has much darker foliage and holds on to it longer than the other trees not yet mulched. It is amassing the difference it can make imo.


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## Jason Douglas (Apr 16, 2017)

Benefits to mulching are many many many.

Linda Chalker Scott published an excellent literature review about the subject. Excellent reading for all pros.

Another benefit that doesnt get much discussion is that of the soil types and characteristics found in grasslands/meadows vs those in forests.

Grassland soils tend to be alkaline and the dominant soil microorganisms as bacteria. Forest soils tend to have a lower pH and are fungal dominated, including beneficial mycorrhizae. Basically you want to replicate a woody plant's natural environment as ATH correctly mentioned.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 16, 2017)

Jason Douglas said:


> Benefits to mulching are many many many.
> 
> Linda Chalker Scott published an excellent literature review about the subject. Excellent reading for all pros.
> 
> ...


I use chips in garden too, even though many believe it to not help, I find otherwise. I had wonderful cantelope and watermellon last year and looking forward to more in 90 days  I even used them in the food plot sure made the white clover survive the dry season we have. I been planning a rabbitry for our farm sustenance and the dung will help the garden too.


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## Jason Douglas (Apr 16, 2017)

Wood chips are great. Long lasting mulch choice


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## Modern Marvel (Apr 16, 2017)

I would definitely agree ,landscaping tarp is a big joke. Just another way to get you to spend more money. Do yourself a favor and don't bother with it, nothing good comes from it and the truth is that the tree or shrubs only are harmed from the stuff. If you really want your trees healthy and full get a really good brand of agricultural chemical that usually come in two forms premixed and mixing is required. From my experience the premix has much less results so I prefer to mix the formula but always follow the products directions for application and never go closer than one foot to the trees drunk at the base. There is also volatile organic or VOC , chemicals given off from decomposing foilage and Leafs that that are toxic to grass and small shrubs and harmful to tree health and growth. A tree ring is nothing but landscape and design and gives Pleasant design to the landscape. With that being said the last thing that is necessary is to have the tree properly elevated, properly thinned out and manicured free full and healthy foliage canopy. If properly done in the right season following the steps mentioned I can guarantee you positive and rapid results.
Good luck. Mike.


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## BC WetCoast (Apr 17, 2017)

Tell your husband two things

If momma ain't happy, nobody happy.

Happy wife, happy life 

If he doesn't like weeds the only options are asphalt or concrete. I just worked on a house, where they had laid artificial turf. The area was so shady, grass would never grow. Anyway, there are now weeds growing in the artificial turf.


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## treebilly (Apr 17, 2017)

Hey Rope, are you planting your garden directly in the wood chips? I'm thinking about mulching my garden with wood chips run through a tub grinder. And then top coat with wood chips.


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## treebilly (Apr 17, 2017)

And I agree with what everyone else has added.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 17, 2017)

treebilly said:


> Hey Rope, are you planting your garden directly in the wood chips? I'm thinking about mulching my garden with wood chips run through a tub grinder. And then top coat with wood chips.


Well yes and no on my cantelopes and mellons I place dirt mounds in the chips and plant then after they come out a bit I lightly coat mounds with stump grindings. I have one raised bed of all decomposed chips I plant in seems to work well. I have even plowed in chips in the food plots it made the clover do swell. I also been mixing topsoil with decomposed chips and grass clippings, I basically experiment and most of them seem to work out pretty good.


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## Marine5068 (Apr 19, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> I don't use fabric in my yard either but it can help with weeds. I recently was asked to prune out several bradford pears that were planted in a 4 foot planting space in a parking lot with sidewalk and highway on the other side. He asked why they were getting blight and what could be done to slow the process down. I looked and he had black plastic over the whole area except where the trees poked through it. I told him you can start by taking up the mulch and removing that plastic! I thought the higher end fabric was breathable and water permeable ?


Actually from experience of all of our many perennial gardens, I have found that using the more expensive landscape fabric is worse and can actually block a lot of the goodness you want seeping down into the soil below.
We have used the cheap, thin fabric with great success under our large gardens and have for well over 10 years with positive results and no weeds.
A trick is to remove some or all of the mulch every 4-5 years and use fresh stuff that way the degraded mulch won't block the holes and the air gets to penetrate fully again.
After I remove it, I water like crazy and soak the soil without mulch on it, then I put new mulch back on top and water some more.


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## ATH (Apr 19, 2017)

Marine5068 said:


> .......
> A trick is to remove some or all of the mulch every 4-5 years and use fresh stuff that way _[great organic material that will help the plants thrive]_  won't block the holes and the air gets to penetrate fully again.
> After I remove it, I water like crazy and soak the soil without mulch on it, then I put new mulch back on top and water some more.


Sounds like a better plan than the alternative, but still not ideal.


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## Jason Douglas (Apr 19, 2017)

Weeds be damned. No landscape fabric in the forest.

Plant your understory with lots of shrubs and perennials. They'll outcompete most weeds eventually. Pull em and spray til then. 

Yardwork sucks... or you love doing it.


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## Modern Marvel (Apr 20, 2017)

Like I said before Landscaping tarp slash/fabric Is just a big joke it doesn't work it's just another way to get money out of people it's terrible 4 your plants and does not allow nutrients and water of the correct amount to reach the soil. Another solution is keeping your plants spread out at a moderate distance between each other get yourself a nice backpack sprayer and spray the weeds generally Roundup Works fairly well for Homeowner use and watch for overspray do not spray within six inches from the plant any other weeds that are close you can just pull them and make sure that you put correct pesticides and fertilizer. Fish guts in leftover parts from filleting are the very best and Black Cow is very good also. make sure that it has plenty of sunlight that can reach the plants. Sunlight is what makes the difference for growing plants. I've been in the landscaping business here in Florida for many years and have done many projects if you want to save yourself some time and money just do it right and that's the way I suggested.


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## Marine5068 (Apr 30, 2017)




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## TNTreeHugger (May 6, 2017)

Rebecca said:


> Ok. I just told my husband this. He's not thrilled at the idea of "constant weed pulling".
> But I think I have him convinced to try it, thank you.


Round-up

Excellent advice from all the experts here...
I had this conversation last year... and I'm still mulching!

Some weeds came up through the mulch, but a dose of Round-up got rid of most of them.
Could be my imagination, but the trees I mulched look much happier and healthier this year.

Btw, all of the bulbs that got covered with mulch came right up through it and looked better than ever..

Here's what I've mulched this week...







Btw, I stuck one of those little solar lights next to every tree I've mulched - at night the yard looks like a huge fairy village. Makes me smile every night!


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## TNTreeHugger (May 6, 2017)

Oh, almost forgot to mention...
I used a double layer of newspaper** under the mulch - two sheets, opened up, placed in an overlapping circle around the tree.
** Don't attempt this on a windy day!

... and it's economical, too - I mulched five trees, a fig, and a blueberry bush with just one yard/ $21.00.
You can't beat that for weed control!


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## Jason Douglas (May 7, 2017)

A significant mulch bed around a tree may be the single most important practice to perform.


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## TNTreeHugger (May 7, 2017)

Jason Douglas said:


> A significant mulch bed around a tree may be the single most important practice to perform.


I concur - and it looks great, too!


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