# Teach me everything you know about logging and forestry!



## CaliforniaWalnut

Hey folks! 
I'm writing a screenplay about logging & I need to know everything there is to know! I'd really appreciate any help  I've been reading about some of the equipment used such as rubber tire skidders, but I just want to have a good handle on how the whole process goes--also the danger factor---accidents, how to remain safe on the job site... what kinds of accidents could occur on a logging site? Any ideas/inspiration would be super helpful! Thank you...

Also, basic stuff like what do you wear when felling trees? Do you wear hard hats, etc? And the land used, is it reused or sold afterwards? What do you call job sites for felling trees? Where is the sawmill in relation to the job site where trees are felled? If someone were to operate a logging business, what operations would they be in charge of? Would they run a sawmill AND handle the operations in the forest in addition to this? 

Common words I've heard: 

Lumber Yard (is this where the logs are tagged and packaged?)
Forest - (what do you call the site where trees are felled?)
Saw Mill (what all happens at the mill?) 

Thanks so much!


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## slowp

Just watch axmen.


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## northmanlogging

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Hey folks!
> I'm writing a screenplay about logging & I need to know everything there is to know! I'd really appreciate any help  I've been reading about some of the equipment used such as rubber tire skidders, but I just want to have a good handle on how the whole process goes--also the danger factor---accidents, how to remain safe on the job site... what kinds of accidents could occur on a logging site? Any ideas/inspiration would be super helpful! Thank you...
> 
> Also, basic stuff like what do you wear when felling trees? Do you wear hard hats, etc? And the land used, is it reused or sold afterwards? What do you call job sites for felling trees? Where is the sawmill in relation to the job site where trees are felled? If someone were to operate a logging business, what operations would they be in charge of? Would they run a sawmill AND handle the operations in the forest in addition to this?
> 
> Common words I've heard:
> 
> Lumber Yard (is this where the logs are tagged and packaged?)
> Forest - (what do you call the site where trees are felled?)
> Saw Mill (what all happens at the mill?)
> 
> Thanks so much!




Thats a big question...

poke around on this forum for a few months and it will give you a start.

But to narrow things down a bit, do you have a location for this screen play, cause every area of the country has its own way of logging, its own terms and colloquialisms etc.

its break fast time... I'll get back to this in a minute.


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## Del_

slowp said:


> Just watch axmen.



Yeah that what I do.


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## northmanlogging

Ok, so this is just an overveiw... cause there are 100 ways to skin a cat and 1,000,000 ways to go logging...

Remaining safe, be alert watch everything, trees fight back and they are sneaky ****s. Broke limbs will fall without warning, logs roll for no reason at all, trees fall the wrong way, or split (barber chair or just chair) when being cut. Machinery can break in new and interesting ways, cables can snap or get cut turning several tons of wood loose, about the only thing you can do to stay safe is be alert and be ready to move, always have a plan b and and escape route.

Personal gear:

Hard hat (called simply "hat" or if its an aluminium "tin hat" on the west coast anyway)

Caulked boots (tough leather or rubber boots with hardened steel spikes in the soles for traction on logs and brush) often called just caulks, or calks, or caulked shoes usually in a very tall boot mine range from 14"-16" tall. 

Tough denim pants either double front or single front, tough this bit is more a personal choice, but dickies and the like don't hold up to logging, often folks will cut the hem off so if yer pants get snagged they will tear instead of tripping you, it also helps them dry a little faster, some folks will stag them off quite high like halfway up the shin.

Hickory shirts are the norm out her, tough cotton shirt with small very fine blue and white stripes, from a few feet away they look light blue, its a regional thing as well. Though they are a very tough shirt and put up to a boat load of abuse, available in button front or a half zipper version, these are often stagged as well, mostly cause long sleeves are ****ing hot... that and you never know when you need TP... 

Chain Saw chaps, kevlar lined cover the front of yer legs as well as the important sensitive bits, designed to clog up and stop the chainsaw chain from spinning and whacking yer leg off... (saw chain is very sharp and spins very fast, not much can stop it and yer leg will take a few moments to realize its not attached anymore)

The above covers just about all logging activities, except chaps... just need those when running a saw.

For falling timber, yer also going to need:

Plastic wedges 3-5 of em (arguments will start over how many and what type)

A square polled fallers axe for driving said wedges and various other duties like hacking bark off of thick skinned trees and freeing up a pinched saw

Saw gas 1-2 gallons

Bar oil 1 gallon 

water 1-2 gallons (fer the poor bastard that has to carry all this stuff)

First Aid kit fallers are generally on their own, 2-4 in an 80 acre site and 200 feet or so apart so we don't kill each other with falling trees, Generally speaking the cutters start weeks in advance of the machinery, if something where to happen it would take a very long time for one of the other fallers to A notice and B make their way over to you.

A radio so you can communicate with the rest of the crew 

and a big ole chainsaw, (also a thing that has lots of fight worthy oppinions) on the west coast its a 70-90cc saw with 28-36" guide bar, or bigger though bigger is sort of unnecessary anymore. The saw is used for the falling of the timber.

All together the fallers is carrying about 40-50#s of extra junk around with them in the woods, granted the gas oil and water can be left somewhere nearby until needed, the saw alone weights right around 20 pounds, each wedge about .5 pounds, axe 4-6# etc...


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## northmanlogging

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Hey folks!
> I'm writing a screenplay about logging & I need to know everything there is to know! I'd really appreciate any help  I've been reading about some of the equipment used such as rubber tire skidders, but I just want to have a good handle on how the whole process goes--also the danger factor---accidents, how to remain safe on the job site... what kinds of accidents could occur on a logging site? Any ideas/inspiration would be super helpful! Thank you...
> 
> Also, basic stuff like what do you wear when felling trees? Do you wear hard hats, etc? And the land used, is it reused or sold afterwards? What do you call job sites for felling trees? Where is the sawmill in relation to the job site where trees are felled? If someone were to operate a logging business, what operations would they be in charge of? Would they run a sawmill AND handle the operations in the forest in addition to this?
> 
> Common words I've heard:
> 
> Lumber Yard (is this where the logs are tagged and packaged?)
> Forest - (what do you call the site where trees are felled?)
> Saw Mill (what all happens at the mill?)
> 
> Thanks so much!



Job site= unit, clearing, or simply site

Mills are generally a fixed location at least on the commercial end of things, usually near salt water here on the coast, or near train tracks, always on flat ground near convenient transportation. so the logging in turn can be 5 miles from the mill or 300 miles (though its more like no more then 70 miles trucking is expensive)

There are smaller portable mills for small time production, I imagine they are set up somewhere with solid level ground near or at the actual logging site. 

Owner is a broad job title, me I do all the logging end of thing cause I'm owner operator with no employees, others have 500 employees and only see a tree on a weekend camping trip, Most though are jacks of all trades, they can and will do it all, but mostly end up farting in the seat of some piece of equipment for most of the day.

Its rare to see a logger that also runs the mill, the mills are generally separate, though many mills own their own timber land, then hire out the logging part of it. Mills actually own most of the land around here that isn't government land, bought it all from the railroads way back when and have been managing it since... well mostly...

Lumber yard, thats where folks go to buy boards, finished lumber

Forest, unit, clearing, site, etc (landing is where the logs are stacked ready to be trucked to the mill)


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## IyaMan

Movie about logging?

That sounds like a A Great Notion... Sometimes.


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## Woos31

Wow you covers alot there pard with a very Good generality, and holy chit is there so much more! A guy never realizes all the possibilities to cover on the subject until you try to explain it and then listing all the ways to die would take quite awhile just for falling and bucking, then a logging show all the way around................where's a guy start


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## northmanlogging

Mills....

Mills are where logs go to get turned into boards, sawdust, pulp, and various other things... but I assume you knew that...

logs are shipped to the mill either by truck or by water though water shipments are getting rarer (between mills they will ship these often enough but river drives of yore are no more)
once logs are unloaded they are then scaled and graded, measured and judged for "quality" this is where the logger gets ripped off... but I digress...

the logs are usually then sorted and stacked by species and grade, waiting for their turn to be cut up (sometimes months)

when they finally start the mill process the first thing is always debarking, gets all the bark dirt and rocks off the wood, bark is then sent to compost or garden stores.

from there its all mill stuff, square the log up, and make the most boards out of em as they can, I'm not a mill guy so I only have a basic idea as to what happens inside the mill...

planed, treated, graded etc

then stacked up and shipped to your local hardware store to build tract houses in Nebraska?

As I said before this is just an overview there are so many processes and types of logging that the mind could boggle if I started rambling...

But a couple machines fer ya to look into...

Yarder

Log loader or Log Shovel (modified excavator)

Dozer, Cat, Bull Dozer

Skidder

Processor

Feller Buncher

Forwarder

Grapple Cat

Log trucks, self loaders... all sorts of fun stuff...


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## northmanlogging

Also, logging has its own language, but I'm supposed to be killing trees right now... so I'll let others skool ya's on that one...


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## northmanlogging

Couple of books to dig up if you have the time, probably have to settle for the good ole paper version...

Ken Kessey Sometimes a Great Notion, (also made into a movie with Paul Newman, and Henry Fonda)

Margaret Elley Felt, Gyppo Logger, bout a family that started contract logging in the 50's with not much more then some broken machines and grit... should make a movie of this one too...


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## slowp

A small yarder. That's a processor in the background. This is in Western Warshington. Don't move here.



Two fallers, dressed for a summer day.



Joe from Axmen who was filling in on the crew here. He's a nice guy and despite the show, had a good reputation as a hard worker. This was taken during the Fall, when things were cooler and damper.





Needs no explanation. A relative of mine.



A rigging crew rigging up a too small tail hold stump with twisters to help keep it from pulling out of the ground. This is a skyline yarder unit.


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## GilksTreeFelling

Here the bulk of the logging is mechanized with the use of harvesters, forwarders, and feller bunchers. The typical "logger" here seldom touches a chainsaw let alone a tree, but they sure strip a chunk of land fast.


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## 1270d

I love seeing that pic of the little guy slowp.


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## slowp

1270d said:


> I love seeing that pic of the little guy slowp.



If I understand his mother correctly, they may move to our fair state. Not to worry, both parents and his sister are native born from here. But he might have.......an.......accent!


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## capetrees

slowp said:


> Just watch axmen.



This is better

http://nosakraw.com/extras.php


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## slowp

Skyline Yarding with a motorized carriage in the Cascade Mtns. of Warshington.



More but in a flat unit. Flatness is not a good thing for skyline systems.


A motorized carriage about to pass over an intermediate support (jack). The opening is called a skyline corridor.



A commercial thin unit nicely cut and bucked.



The hooktender and crew (over the edge) stringing out haywire for a skyline operation.


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## slowp

This is a small landing. Note carriage, yarder and loader, called a shovel around these parts. The guy is a chaser.




A chaser doing some limbing on the landing.



A truck being loaded.



Another hooktender at work on a fine and pleasant day.




I shall quote the rant of a logger who was a friend. "Painting and flagging! Painting and flagging! That's all you foresters do." Well, here it is. Trees to be used for tail trees in the yarding operation are picked out and flagged and painted so the fallers will not cut them. We hope.



In this case, the paint also means that the crew can cut the tree after it is no longer needed. That makes de-rigging (taking the blocks down)
easier to do. On this sale, the tail trees were left on the ground to be wildlife logs.


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## ropensaddle

Lol whats up with the don't move here stuff rotflmfao.


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## northmanlogging

ropensaddle said:


> Lol whats up with the don't move here stuff rotflmfao.


it should be self explanatory, lots of jerks have moved here over the past 20-30 years, things is getting crowded and tense, used to be known as one of the politest places in the world... sadly not so much anymore... 

so don't move here...


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## ArtB

northmanlogging said:


> it should be self explanatory, lots of jerks have moved here over the past 20-30 years, things is getting crowded and tense, used to be known as one of the politest places in the world... sadly not so much anymore...
> 
> so don't move here...



Amen.

Land prices here have increased by factor of OVER 100X (one- HUNRED times) in the last 35 years anywhere within 10 miles of major employment areas (microsoft, Amazon, Boeing, etc) and private forest land at least 10X in same time.
To try and preserve forest land, Lewis county (100 mi south of Seattle) has a 20 acre minimum if you want to build a house outside of town, etc.
And the newbies figure everything is community property ! A couple literally drove right into my back yard last week to help themselves to some rocks and gravel ! Nobody owns that right? Yeah nobody owns it, then why am I paying $10K/year in property taxes!

But on OP subject: After 50 years of just 'hobby' logging on own 35 acres, over 150 stitches and a couple weeks in hospital once 42 years ago 'learning' about NEVER going into the woods without FOPS on your dozer. Turn that type logging into a Louie L'Amour type gunfight sequence, man vs falling object. FOPS = a big iron cage on dozer, *F*alling *O*bject *P*rotection*s*.


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## slowp

I didn't know about the 20 acre thing and I live in Lewis County. I do know we are losing working forests as they are turned into housing developments and then the people from elsewhere buy the houses and then complain about the forests being "chopped" down. Oh, and they complain that we are rude because many of us who were born and raised here were taught to be polite but don't run up and start being really nosy and bothering new neighbors. I do not know where that custom came from. In my unofficial surveys, I usually find that 70% of the people in a group moved here from another state. 

It's changing and I don't like it. I'd like it better if the Seattle techies would buy my place for some outrageous amount of money, but that isn't happening. 

Don't move here. 

I'm also wondering if the OP is a troll.


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## Gugi47

Check out this videos:




and logging


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## Gugi47

and more...



Lumberyard


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## ChoppyChoppy

FOPS is Falling Objects Protection System
ROPS is Rollover Protection System
OPG is Operator Protection Guard (has guards over the glass mostly so a log won't blow through and tickle your face)

Here we call a site either a site, timber sale, "up in the woods". Where the logs are skid (that is a hitch, twitch or pull) is the landing or deck.

Anyhow, I'd about give a kidney for a few dozen truckloads of saw logs like in those pics! The stuff we have around here we are doing good to get a 16ft 8x8 out of.

We use a feller buncher, grapple skidders and a stroke delimber. Not much chainsaw use. Lot safer sitting in a cab and quicker too. What would take me a week by hand can be done in a day with a buncher.

But like mentioned, it's very regional and sometimes even site specific. (due to laws/rules, land condition, time of year, etc) Before I saw the Axeman show I'd never even heard of a such thing as a yarder. Head to WA or OR and I don't think you can toss a stick without hitting one.


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## Backyard Lumberjack

northmanlogging said:


> it should be self explanatory, lots of jerks have moved here over the past 20-30 years, things is getting crowded and tense, used to be known as one of the politest places in the world... sadly not so much anymore... so don't move here...



it was still pretty and pretty cool in the Pac NW, specifically Washington State up into the mid 70's or thereabouts!. then the folks down in CA became aware of the great value of Pac NW air, mountains and real estate values. and things tain't been the same since. progress they call it! I call it 'ethnic sprawl'... many do not agree. at least the salmon and steelhead still taste good, Mt Rainer is as pretty as ever... the skiing remains great!... and float planes are as common on L Washington as a logn' truck load headed out of the high Cascades...

I know! I am from Washington State... lived all across it... 1st grade in Pullman, Ephrata, Moses Lake... Seattle. love the Dawgs, as I am also a UW grad! I left WA with a low draft number, and I am to blame for some of state's demise... I guess. u see I took a piece of it with me... 

times r changing all around us. many of us don't like it. much of it is corrupt politics and greed. the engine is money, fueled on the promise of progress. but these hot temps we see are proof the plan is not entirely working... change is tuff. adjustment even tuffer.

cutting down the timber to build homes! its all over. too much f'g going on, if u ask me. less people is the answer! well, one answer. timber abuse displaces the wildlife. we have seen feral hogs running down our street most likely from a woods being culled for homes... and what gets me, is that it just seems as nobody cares as in those doing it!

this is one swell thread! in part cause so many posters from Washington state. I like that. I will visit this thread and watch it develop. I am sure I will find it to be quite interesting... wish we could all GTG and have an Oly... take care and keep up the interesting posts. Thanks! ~

_"Go Huskies...!"_


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## northmanlogging

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> it was still pretty and pretty cool in the Pac NW, specifically Washington State up into the mid 70's or thereabouts!. then the folks down in CA became aware of the great value of Pac NW air, mountains and real estate values. and things tain't been the same since. progress they call it! I call it 'ethnic sprawl'... many do not agree. at least the salmon and steelhead still taste good, Mt Rainer is as pretty as ever... the skiing remains great!... and float planes are as common on L Washington as a logn' truck load headed out of the high Cascades...
> 
> I know! I am from Washington State... lived all across it... 1st grade in Pullman, Ephrata, Moses Lake... Seattle. love the Dawgs, as I am also a UW grad! I left WA with a low draft number, and I am to blame for some of state's demise... I guess. u see I took a piece of it with me...
> 
> times r changing all around us. many of us don't like it. much of it is corrupt politics and greed. the engine is money, fueled on the promise of progress. but these hot temps we see are proof the plan is not entirely working... change is tuff. adjustment even tuffer.
> 
> cutting down the timber to build homes! its all over. too much f'g going on, if u ask me. less people is the answer! well, one answer. timber abuse displaces the wildlife. we have seen feral hogs running down our street most likely from a woods being culled for homes... and what gets me, is that it just seems as nobody cares as in those doing it!
> 
> this is one swell thread! in part cause so many posters from Washington state. I like that. I will visit this thread and watch it develop. I am sure I will find it to be quite interesting... wish we could all GTG and have an Oly... take care and keep up the interesting posts. Thanks! ~
> 
> _"Go Huskies...!"_
> View attachment 515712



luckily modt of the logging out here is done on steep ground you'd have to be knuts to build a house on, so it gets replanted, the commercisl ground, invluding Forest Service and DNR is managed quite well, Snohomish county passed an ordinance no houses on less the 5 acres in rural areas, while a boon for this dumb logger it put a good hitch in the step of mass developers.

So now the I-5 corridor is getting chocked full with crappy McCondos and strip malls.

The builders are still cramming houses everywhee they can though...

Also i hear that wild hogs have made it into Oregon... with luck the mighty Collumbia will keep them off the north cascades fer at least a little while.


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## slowp

I guess I have lots of skyline stuff because I liked working on those units. There was more to figure out and it seemed a bit more exciting that skidder logging. Here's a couple of silent videos I have of guyline stump rigging. This is a crew with a Madill yarder that I enjoyed working with. They were very easy to work with and very professional.


Part two: Note the rot in the stump. But this crew seemed to know what they were doing and it worked.


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## slowp

From the landing. This is the not too frequently used and much hated downhill yarding. Road construction is considered to be a bad thing on Forest Service ground so downhilling is the only alternative if helicoptering is too expensive. Sorry for the low quality, but you will hear the noise.


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## gary courtney

slowp said:


> I'm also wondering if the OP is a troll


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## ChoppyChoppy

See here the forest circus likes it when we put haul roads or skid roads in. It's roads they don't have to pay for and they turn around and call it "recreational access".

Like the last property we just wrapped up, we had darn near an I95 skid trail dozed in from end to end of the ~200 acres. Was nice, at the end we had about a 2 mile skid.


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## madhatte

If you want to learn everything I know about forestry, come work a few seasons on our crew. There's far too much to write here, you just gotta do it.


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## Backyard Lumberjack

northmanlogging said:


> luckily modt of the logging out here is done on steep ground you'd have to be knuts to build a house on, so it gets replanted, the commercisl ground, invluding Forest Service and DNR is managed quite well, Snohomish county passed an ordinance no houses on less the 5 acres in rural areas, while a boon for this dumb logger it put a good hitch in the step of mass developers. *So now the I-5 corridor is getting chocked full with crappy McCondos* and strip malls. The builders are still cramming houses everywhee they can though... Also i hear that wild hogs have made it into Oregon... with luck the mighty Collumbia will keep them off the north cascades fer at least a little while.



_>So now the I-5 corridor is getting chocked full with crappy McCondos ...
_
hello. down here too. I remember when there was no I-5... then the months and months of mud and construction... I drove on it to school first day it opened... construction junk all over the place, and the mud, too... but... was a bit better than the viaduct... lol...

the logging vids are great!


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## ropensaddle

northmanlogging said:


> it should be self explanatory, lots of jerks have moved here over the past 20-30 years, things is getting crowded and tense, used to be known as one of the politest places in the world... sadly not so much anymore...
> 
> so don't move here...


Hahahaha; see thing is" you never succeeded the union", so your not a country. If I wanted to move there I would but your jerky attitude makes me want to move there just to spite you


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## ArtB

slowp said:


> I didn't know about the 20 acre thing and I live in Lewis County.



Might not be all of the county, I'm on Salmon Creek, halfway between St. Helens and Mossyrock. 20 acre rule just recent, full time neighbor down there told me about the new 'zoning'.


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## ropensaddle

That settles it, farms sold and I'm on the way tomorrow


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## northmanlogging

ropensaddle said:


> That settles it, farms sold and I'm on the way tomorrow



right sell the farm, all yer gonna afford out here is 2 bedroom shack on 1/4 acre 60 minutes from anything resembling a day job, with a bunch of other transplants that ***** about the weather and report any chainsaw use to the county... hence we got enough elbows here don't need anymore


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## slowp

ropensaddle said:


> Hahahaha; see thing is" you never succeeded the union", so your not a country. If I wanted to move there I would but your jerky attitude makes me want to move there just to spite you



Here you go. Very affordable. http://www.realtor.com/realestatean...nit-50_Centralia_WA_98531_M19994-39871#photo1

You might want to have a boat handy during the rainy season.


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## SliverPicker

I will gladly sit down and with you and teach you everything I know. I hope you will have the 5 necessary minutes to spare...


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## ArtB

northmanlogging said:


> ..report any chainsaw use to the county...



Did you see the thread I posted awhile back when we had one of our summer days in April? Was at the cabin cutting some wood, stopped the CS and yearling deer walks right up to me and NUDGES me begging for a treat ! DNR has some thinning going on adjacent, all I can figure is that some of the crew are 'chumming' the deer getting ready for fall. 
Never thought of using a chainsaw for a deer call before ! Totally flabberghasted that the deer came right up to me like that.

OP could work that into her script (if not troll, we have not heard back from her though), maybe a shoot out with the game warden to spice things up for the screenplay ? 

Went to the truck and fed the deer a Ding Dong, deer loved it. Have heard they like stogies or cigarettes even better, but don't smoke (me I mean, would REALLY wonder if the deer asked for a light!). I'll not get a license this year, some warden may have read this !

One more for OP for her screenplay: Last year, my 9 YO grandson was hiking down the creek and came running back as he saw something bigger than me (6', 230#). Told him a bear but may have been Bigfoot, right area for it.


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## moondoggie

northmanlogging said:


> it should be self explanatory, lots of jerks have moved here over the past 20-30 years, things is getting crowded and tense, used to be known as one of the politest places in the world... sadly not so much anymore...
> 
> so don't move here...


Earth?? Lol!


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## ropensaddle

northmanlogging said:


> right sell the farm, all yer gonna afford out here is 2 bedroom shack on 1/4 acre 60 minutes from anything resembling a day job, with a bunch of other transplants that ***** about the weather and report any chainsaw use to the county... hence we got enough elbows here don't need anymore


You have no idea what I can or can't afford. As far as chainsaw use, I imagine id be the one being reported there chief.


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## ropensaddle

slowp said:


> Here you go. Very affordable. http://www.realtor.com/realestatean...nit-50_Centralia_WA_98531_M19994-39871#photo1
> 
> You might want to have a boat handy during the rainy season.


I gots a canoe but I think i might poke around and see whats available. I'd want 40 to 50 acres so your idea isn't large enough.


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## ropensaddle

slowp said:


> Here you go. Very affordable. http://www.realtor.com/realestatean...nit-50_Centralia_WA_98531_M19994-39871#photo1
> 
> You might want to have a boat handy during the rainy season.


Sorry but this is more my style!http://www.landandfarm.com/property/Large_acreage_bordering_National_Forest-3041241/


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## ArthurB

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Hey folks!
> I'm writing a screenplay about logging & I need to know everything there is to know! I'd really appreciate any help  I've been reading about some of the equipment used such as rubber tire skidders, but I just want to have a good handle on how the whole process goes--also the danger factor---accidents, how to remain safe on the job site... what kinds of accidents could occur on a logging site? Any ideas/inspiration would be super helpful! Thank you...
> 
> Also, basic stuff like what do you wear when felling trees? Do you wear hard hats, etc? And the land used, is it reused or sold afterwards? What do you call job sites for felling trees? Where is the sawmill in relation to the job site where trees are felled? If someone were to operate a logging business, what operations would they be in charge of? Would they run a sawmill AND handle the operations in the forest in addition to this?
> 
> Common words I've heard:
> 
> Lumber Yard (is this where the logs are tagged and packaged?)
> Forest - (what do you call the site where trees are felled?)
> Saw Mill (what all happens at the mill?)
> 
> Thanks so much!



If this is genuine, then it's a very lazy / half arsed approach

You need to meet with and talk to people in the industry in the area where the story is supposed to be set

You also need to visit a range of typical job sites

And when you've written the script in draft form, you need to run relevant parts of it past some people - pay them to critique it for factual errors / errors in terminology / etc


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## slowp

ropensaddle said:


> Sorry but this is more my style!http://www.landandfarm.com/property/Large_acreage_bordering_National_Forest-3041241/[/QUOTE
> 
> Oh yeah. Bordering National Forest = you have a good chance of burning up in that part of the country. I lived that area for several years. They do say you would have some water, but better check on who plows the road in the winter. Or get a snowmobile. I wonder how much fire insurance is now? That highway used to and still might have cows that a rancher seemed to encourage to stand in it. With it being Open Range if you hit a cow, you buy the cow.
> 
> On the other side of the highway is a nice valley, but the same problems exist there. People who aren't from here buy places and then realize it's a bit of a drive to a limited medical facility and an icy drive in the winter. Many are retirees. There's lots of turnover. Also, in the 1990s. employees bought the lumber mill in Omak, financed it through junk bonds and lost it. Before they went under, the landowners were surprised to find out that the mill had timber rights on the land and in an act of desperation, pretty much cleaned it out. You might not have many trees to cut down.
> 
> You might not like the political situation. I'll just say that some undesirable to me people got in office because nobody ran against them. They've caused at least three legal actions/lawsuits to be filed against the county. It isn't a very prosperous county. Needless to say there are quite a few people running in a primary to be on the ballot against the yahoos.
> 
> Deer hunting? Yeah, but they usually hide pretty good during deer season. Baiting is illegal. Fishing? Our fishing rule book, if you want to be legal, is very thick. That's because so many people moved here and fished out the lakes, creeks, and rivers. There are no elk in that area, but occasionally a moose wanders through. Wolves are making a comeback, and we would see a wolverine once in a while just north a bit. Be prepared for beastly cold winters, and hot and dusty summers.
> 
> You probably won't find a good job very easily unless the pot industry takes off as predicted. That industry is looking to make the Okanogan Valley into the Napa Valley of pot.
> 
> Didn't think anybody knew about that place, did ya? Oh, gotta chuckle about the solar power. In the winter, remember, you are almost at the Canadian Border. Days are short. You might be above the inversion that happens in the valley, but I do not know if 8 hours is enough to run a house on solar.
> 
> 
> You'll be pretty close to the Barter Faire. I'm sure you'll like that.
> 
> By the way, I've been visiting friends in the area and have been looking at places. We might could be neighbors!


----------



## ropensaddle

Lol, omg were all gonna die, katy bar the door. Yellowstone might blow and kill all the cows then who pays ?


----------



## ropensaddle

Relax Slowp, I think ole rope is staying in these hills a bit, seems there is too many nutty natives out thar.


----------



## northmanlogging

ropensaddle said:


> You have no idea what I can or can't afford. As far as chainsaw use, I imagine id be the one being reported there chief.



Yer absolutely correct, I don't have any idea of what you can afford, but I have a pretty good idea of what an average person in Kansas can afford, its not the same chuckles...

As for being reported, I mean the police show up, cause a big scene, then since that didn't go as planned, the neighbors then turn you in to the county for whatever BS reason they can think of, unpermitted porch, grass to tall, fence too tall, too many cars in the driveway etc.

As far as property on the east side, there is a reason its cheap, sure its only say 90 miles to Seattle or Everett and you can totally drive that in like an hour and a half... 

NO, there is a thing called mountain passes sketchy in summer time and nearly impassable in the winter, sure the DOT keeps em open more or less year round but its a full time job for a bunch of folks, so yer looking at like 3-6 hours one way Ellensburg to Seattle, depending on traffic, and thanks to the massive influx of people the freeway system is horribly inadequate, For instance I'm only about 45-50 miles from Seattle by highway/freeway, yet it would take me 4 hours to get to downtown after 3:30, when I working in Everett for a short time, its only 20 miles, it regularly took 2-3 hours to get home.

So do everyone a favor stay in Kansas.

Jobs on the eastside include, county/state jobs that someone has to die or retire for them to start hiring, retail sales, I.E. you want fries with that, and would like some matches with them smokes? Very very rarely there is a logging job open, but because of the pine beetle timber is pretty much worthless so taint no one logging much over there either. Otherwise its pretty much a giant desert sprinkled with a few college towns, and farm towns.. Hey much like Kansas


----------



## madhatte

My whole fam, both sides, are eastside folks. All have emigrated to the westside. That should speak for my opinion on the matter.


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

ropensaddle said:


> Sorry but this is more my style!http://www.landandfarm.com/property/Large_acreage_bordering_National_Forest-3041241/



enjoyed that! used to hunt with my dad in the okanogan... and visited several cities i lived in via the air map... fun!


----------



## northmanlogging

by the way that property in tonasket, was listed 4-5 years ago, but they mentioned it was only accessible by snowmobile in the winter, and for like 20k...

Also Tonasket isn't much more then a feed store a gas station and a post office. There might be a school, but I think the high shcool kids have to go all the way to Omak...


----------



## Westboastfaller

] June 2016. Washington has good snow. BCers think it's a mountain of Cocaine.

What mountain is it?


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 515882
> 
> ] June 2016. Washington has good snow. BCers think it's a mountain of Cocaine.
> 
> What mountain is it?


Dang it man, your pics always make me home sick. *transplanted BCer*


----------



## ropensaddle

northmanlogging said:


> Yer absolutely correct, I don't have any idea of what you can afford, but I have a pretty good idea of what an average person in Kansas can afford, its not the same chuckles...
> 
> As for being reported, I mean the police show up, cause a big scene, then since that didn't go as planned, the neighbors then turn you in to the county for whatever BS reason they can think of, unpermitted porch, grass to tall, fence too tall, too many cars in the driveway etc.
> 
> As far as property on the east side, there is a reason its cheap, sure its only say 90 miles to Seattle or Everett and you can totally drive that in like an hour and a half...
> 
> NO, there is a thing called mountain passes sketchy in summer time and nearly impassable in the winter, sure the DOT keeps em open more or less year round but its a full time job for a bunch of folks, so yer looking at like 3-6 hours one way Ellensburg to Seattle, depending on traffic, and thanks to the massive influx of people the freeway system is horribly inadequate, For instance I'm only about 45-50 miles from Seattle by highway/freeway, yet it would take me 4 hours to get to downtown after 3:30, when I working in Everett for a short time, its only 20 miles, it regularly took 2-3 hours to get home.
> 
> So do everyone a favor stay in Kansas.
> 
> Jobs on the eastside include, county/state jobs that someone has to die or retire for them to start hiring, retail sales, I.E. you want fries with that, and would like some matches with them smokes? Very very rarely there is a logging job open, but because of the pine beetle timber is pretty much worthless so taint no one logging much over there either. Otherwise its pretty much a giant desert sprinkled with a few college towns, and farm towns.. Hey much like Kansas


I'm not in Kansas toto rotflmfao


----------



## ropensaddle

northmanlogging said:


> by the way that property in tonasket, was listed 4-5 years ago, but they mentioned it was only accessible by snowmobile in the winter, and for like 20k...
> 
> Also Tonasket isn't much more then a feed store a gas station and a post office. There might be a school, but I think the high shcool kids have to go all the way to Omak...


Like I said my style! And I take my job with me.


----------



## bitzer

Unfortunately I think you guys were taken for a ride. Who writes a screenplay about something they know nothing about? And if the screenplay thing were true, id bet that it's pro hippie. My guess by analyzing the time of the post and username that yukon John is behind this thread. Notice he's been posting in old threads again lately? He's bored. And if my accusations are incorrect and this "woman" is really writing a screenplay about logging, we will never hear from her again. "She" got us all talking again though. Yes I'm always this cynical in real life. My wife loves it.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Well she has a cute profile pic so I hope she comes back lol


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> by the way that property in tonasket, was listed 4-5 years ago, but they mentioned it was only accessible by snowmobile in the winter, and for like 20k...
> 
> Also Tonasket isn't much more then a feed store a gas station and a post office. There might be a school, but I think the high shcool kids have to go all the way to Omak...



I lived in Tonasket. It has the basics, even a small hospital but the hospital is having troubles. It's the place where I sold my house for asking price--no problems because it was the only house in town for sale. I drove through there last year and they've spruced the town up with fancy light poles and flower baskets. There's a little ski hill up in the highlands. It had a chairlift and you skied down making sure you went through a gate instead of through a barb wire fence. There was a cross country ski area there also. I almost got into a bad car wreck with a newcomer who did not understand that you kinda sorta need to slow down on an icy road. She then decided if she replaced the tires with studded tires there would be no need ever slow down. I putted on up to the ski hill in my little Subie with non studded tires. 

That area had bug kill. I worked on beetle salvage after salvage. And still, one guy explained it thusly, "All we've done is made safety zones to run to when this area catches on fire." 

Jobs? Well the mill shut down in 1993, there isn't much logging, there's gubmint, but those are hard to come by if you aren't related or don't know somebody, there's the orchards but you'd better not be prejudiced, the little hospital is firing head nurses so that might be available but don't object to the wife of one of the big shots is going home but staying on the clock, Folks are hoping the marijuana industry will provide a livable income. There's some troubles with that--neighbors of the pot farms don't like the smell. You might get a seasonal job in a fruit warehouse, once again, leave your prejudice at the door. In fact don't move there if you can't stand living amongst people who look different. You won't like it. 

There's a couple of extremes living in those hills. You've got the hippies, who want no timber harvest--not that there is much and try to get small businesses like hand painting neck ties going. They were touting the tie painting business as viable when I lived there. Then you have the hard core gubmint haters that moved there from somewhere else, collect their social security checks, live in places like the advertisement, and occasionally shoot at trespassers and Forest Service rigs. They want to be left alone so don't even step on their land, or some of the FS land around them. I had one bothering me while I was working. He kept coming over and telling me something might happen to me if I didn't leave the area. I ignored him. That winter, 100+ trees were carefully spiked in that timber sale. 

I ricochet back and forth across the mountains. Right now I'm looking at doing it again, maybe. Northman, you have overlooked Spokane. If the roads are good, you can be in Spokane much faster--3 hours, than Seattle--4 or 5 hrs. Or bop down the river 100+ miles to the Costco in E. Wenatchee. 

Rope, I don't care if you move there, really. I think the posts you'd put on here would be amusing to read and I promise I won't say.......I told you so.
Read up on the Open Range rule. It's a shocker for newcomers who call the sheriff about cows in their unfenced yards and gardens. It's a leftover from the Days of the Old West which weren't as nice as portrayed on TV.


----------



## slowp

ropensaddle said:


> Like I said my style! And I take my job with me.



Ummm, I don't think there's much of a demand for tree climbers. They use ladders in the orchards. 10 foot ones are generally sufficient. It's irrigated desert with a few pines scattered around where people who might be able to afford to hire you live. They probably already know of a local for the rare case when such work is needed, but like I said, give it a try and amuse us with your posts.


----------



## northmanlogging

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 515882
> 
> ] June 2016. Washington has good snow. BCers think it's a mountain of Cocaine.
> 
> What mountain is it?



Looks like Mt Baker,

From the other side it and down here by me it looks like someone left a cupcake in the hills, you get the better veiw in my opinion, my side is just looks like a volcano ready to destroy everything...


----------



## northmanlogging

Word on the street is that Baker got fresh snow a week or so ago, mid July for those that care.

We're not getting much of a summer this year.


----------



## Westboastfaller

northmanlogging said:


> Word on the street is that Baker got fresh snow a week or so ago, mid July for those that care.
> 
> We're not getting much of a summer this year.


What an absolute BEAST of a mountain. Just took the ferry of 'the rock' last night on way to the top of the BC coast/ AK to bushel In some big stuff
No prob recognising your own state and I must say your metric is comming on nicely. "Mr I ****en hate metric" It's good to think out of our comfort zone. Nice weather finally but Unfortunately the view of Baker wasn't great. To much smog from Vancouver it appeared. Should be a spectacular view on my way out of Surrey his morning though.
Yes I hear there hasn't been much for summer down here to speak of.
When I'm west coast of the island or up the coast line then you can expect rain for summer. Once I hit Prince Rupert to work, summer is done by end of July if it was ever to be. Same as SE Alaska.
Best spring probably on record though I bet. Parents garden was three weeks ahead of the norm.


----------



## Gugi47

I'm not a tree cutter by profession. So I'm not familiar with all the expression use in this business.
Would be nice somebody to post some of the mining's of the words for he.
logging=
felling=
etc.


----------



## Westboastfaller

Gugi47 said:


> Would be nice somebody to post some of the mining's of the words for he.
> logging=
> felling=
> etc.


Logging= a political activity to be believed by many to be politically incorrect
felling= proper grammar

How did I do on the aptitude test?


----------



## Gugi47

Westboastfaller said:


> Logging= a political activity to be believed by many to be politically incorrect
> felling= proper grammar
> 
> How did I do on the aptitude test?


Yes that's a great help for the poor girl....who help you to come up with this great answers? your wife?
Thanks for your input.


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

Westboastfaller said:


> *Logging*= a political activity to be believed by many to be politically incorrect
> *felling*= proper grammar How did I do on the aptitude test?



_" I be logging to get back into the high Cascades, but I keep felling down on my plans... "_

um, how did I do? good? lol


----------



## Westboastfaller

^^^^ lol..thanks for the laughs Gentlemen. I know @Gugi47 is serious though. Well the wife is a fair bit smarter. ..did I mention I run a chainsaw for a living?


----------



## ropensaddle

slowp said:


> Rope, I don't care if you move there, really. I think the posts you'd put on here would be amusing to read and I promise I won't say.......I told you so.
> Read up on the Open Range rule. It's a shocker for newcomers who call the sheriff about cows in their unfenced yards and gardens. It's a leftover from the Days of the Old West which weren't as nice as portrayed on TV.


Lol Slowp, I taint movin but am glad I'd have your blessing Anyhoot ole rope aint the type to be calling a sheriff. If I had concerns Id look at the brand on the hyde and ask around and talk things out with the owner might even offer to help "if needed"! I ain't scared of cow poop; now my garden would have electric fencing ,cause; I'd have time invested there ya know


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

Hello Everyone,

I'm so excited to have the opportunity to learn from your wealth of knowledge! I think it's really important when writing something especially for the screen, to show accuracy and to be knowledgeable about one's subject matter. I haven't gotten to reading all of your comments yet, but I look forward to it. Thank you. I'm sure I'll have more questions for ya soon  Thank you again for your awesome help so far!


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

bitzer said:


> Unfortunately I think you guys were taken for a ride. Who writes a screenplay about something they know nothing about? And if the screenplay thing were true, id bet that it's pro hippie. My guess by analyzing the time of the post and username that yukon John is behind this thread. Notice he's been posting in old threads again lately? He's bored. And if my accusations are incorrect and this "woman" is really writing a screenplay about logging, we will never hear from her again. "She" got us all talking again though. Yes I'm always this cynical in real life. My wife loves it.


Hello! Yes, I am a screenwriter, and no, I'm not a logger. The story isn't all about logging, it's a drama/thriller that takes place in a logging town. A lot of writers don't take the time to research their subjects and end up putting inaccurate information up on the screen. This has happened millions of times and led people to believe false information! But I appreciate your concern


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

ArthurB said:


> If this is genuine, then it's a very lazy / half arsed approach
> 
> You need to meet with and talk to people in the industry in the area where the story is supposed to be set
> 
> You also need to visit a range of typical job sites
> 
> And when you've written the script in draft form, you need to run relevant parts of it past some people - pay them to critique it for factual errors / errors in terminology / etc


No offense, but I didn't ask you about screenwriting. I'm asking for information about logging. I don't care if you don't like my approach! When is the last time you wrote anything of significance?


----------



## ropensaddle

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Hello! Yes, I am a screenwriter, and no, I'm not a logger. The story isn't all about logging, it's a drama/thriller that takes place in a logging town. A lot of writers don't take the time to research their subjects and end up putting inaccurate information up on the screen. This has happened millions of times and led people to believe false information! But I appreciate your concern


You might rent an old movie called sometimes a great notion, its dated a bit but was ok, poor ole Henry couldn't get in the woods without having an accident lol


----------



## bitzer

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Hello! Yes, I am a screenwriter, and no, I'm not a logger. The story isn't all about logging, it's a drama/thriller that takes place in a logging town. A lot of writers don't take the time to research their subjects and end up putting inaccurate information up on the screen. This has happened millions of times and led people to believe false information! But I appreciate your concern


Is it going to show logging in a bad light? I'd prefer not help the hippies. My job is important to me and my family.


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

northmanlogging said:


> Ok, so this is just an overveiw... cause there are 100 ways to skin a cat and 1,000,000 ways to go logging...
> 
> Remaining safe, be alert watch everything, trees fight back and they are sneaky ****s. Broke limbs will fall without warning, logs roll for no reason at all, trees fall the wrong way, or split (barber chair or just chair) when being cut. Machinery can break in new and interesting ways, cables can snap or get cut turning several tons of wood loose, about the only thing you can do to stay safe is be alert and be ready to move, always have a plan b and and escape route.
> 
> Personal gear:
> 
> Hard hat (called simply "hat" or if its an aluminium "tin hat" on the west coast anyway)
> 
> Caulked boots (tough leather or rubber boots with hardened steel spikes in the soles for traction on logs and brush) often called just caulks, or calks, or caulked shoes usually in a very tall boot mine range from 14"-16" tall.
> 
> Tough denim pants either double front or single front, tough this bit is more a personal choice, but dickies and the like don't hold up to logging, often folks will cut the hem off so if yer pants get snagged they will tear instead of tripping you, it also helps them dry a little faster, some folks will stag them off quite high like halfway up the shin.
> 
> Hickory shirts are the norm out her, tough cotton shirt with small very fine blue and white stripes, from a few feet away they look light blue, its a regional thing as well. Though they are a very tough shirt and put up to a boat load of abuse, available in button front or a half zipper version, these are often stagged as well, mostly cause long sleeves are ****ing hot... that and you never know when you need TP...
> 
> Chain Saw chaps, kevlar lined cover the front of yer legs as well as the important sensitive bits, designed to clog up and stop the chainsaw chain from spinning and whacking yer leg off... (saw chain is very sharp and spins very fast, not much can stop it and yer leg will take a few moments to realize its not attached anymore)
> 
> The above covers just about all logging activities, except chaps... just need those when running a saw.
> 
> For falling timber, yer also going to need:
> 
> Plastic wedges 3-5 of em (arguments will start over how many and what type)
> 
> A square polled fallers axe for driving said wedges and various other duties like hacking bark off of thick skinned trees and freeing up a pinched saw
> 
> Saw gas 1-2 gallons
> 
> Bar oil 1 gallon
> 
> water 1-2 gallons (fer the poor bastard that has to carry all this stuff)
> 
> First Aid kit fallers are generally on their own, 2-4 in an 80 acre site and 200 feet or so apart so we don't kill each other with falling trees, Generally speaking the cutters start weeks in advance of the machinery, if something where to happen it would take a very long time for one of the other fallers to A notice and B make their way over to you.
> 
> A radio so you can communicate with the rest of the crew
> 
> and a big ole chainsaw, (also a thing that has lots of fight worthy oppinions) on the west coast its a 70-90cc saw with 28-36" guide bar, or bigger though bigger is sort of unnecessary anymore. The saw is used for the falling of the timber.
> 
> All together the fallers is carrying about 40-50#s of extra junk around with them in the woods, granted the gas oil and water can be left somewhere nearby until needed, the saw alone weights right around 20 pounds, each wedge about .5 pounds, axe 4-6# etc...


This is fantastic--thanks!!!


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

bitzer said:


> Is it going to show logging in a bad light? I'd prefer not help the hippies. My job is important to me and my family.


No, no, no!!!! It's a movie  And it's not political lol. I'm DEFINITELY not a hippie. I'm from Virginia lol.


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

slowp said:


> This is a small landing. Note carriage, yarder and loader, called a shovel around these parts. The guy is a chaser.
> View attachment 515675
> 
> 
> 
> A chaser doing some limbing on the landing.
> View attachment 515676
> 
> 
> A truck being loaded.
> View attachment 515677
> 
> 
> Another hooktender at work on a fine and pleasant day.
> 
> View attachment 515678
> 
> 
> I shall quote the rant of a logger who was a friend. "Painting and flagging! Painting and flagging! That's all you foresters do." Well, here it is. Trees to be used for tail trees in the yarding operation are picked out and flagged and painted so the fallers will not cut them. We hope.
> View attachment 515680
> 
> 
> In this case, the paint also means that the crew can cut the tree after it is no longer needed. That makes de-rigging (taking the blocks down)
> easier to do. On this sale, the tail trees were left on the ground to be wildlife logs.


Great photos!!!!!! Thank you!


----------



## bitzer

One thing you are not going to get from his forum are the sounds and smells of Logging.


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

northmanlogging said:


> Also, logging has its own language, but I'm supposed to be killing trees right now... so I'll let others skool ya's on that one...


Haha, thank you!


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

bitzer said:


> One thing you are not going to get from his forum are the sounds and smells of Logging.


I plan on taking a trip to the woods and to an actual logging site... I just have to cough up the money!


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

ropensaddle said:


> You might rent an old movie called sometimes a great notion, its dated a bit but was ok, poor ole Henry couldn't get in the woods without having an accident lol


I'll check it out--thanks


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

northmanlogging said:


> it should be self explanatory, lots of jerks have moved here over the past 20-30 years, things is getting crowded and tense, used to be known as one of the politest places in the world... sadly not so much anymore...
> 
> so don't move here...


That's Western Washington?


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

slowp said:


> Skyline Yarding with a motorized carriage in the Cascade Mtns. of Warshington.
> View attachment 515670
> 
> 
> More but in a flat unit. Flatness is not a good thing for skyline systems.
> View attachment 515671
> 
> A motorized carriage about to pass over an intermediate support (jack). The opening is called a skyline corridor.
> View attachment 515672
> 
> 
> A commercial thin unit nicely cut and bucked.
> View attachment 515673
> 
> 
> The hooktender and crew (over the edge) stringing out haywire for a skyline operation.
> 
> View attachment 515674


Awesome photos----okay, so I'm beginning to get the picture. A chaser attaches the downed logs to a cable or hook, correct? And then I'm just trying to figure out what a harder is exactly compared to a skidder


----------



## ArthurB

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> No offense, but I didn't ask you about screenwriting. I'm asking for information about logging. I don't care if you don't like my approach! When is the last time you wrote anything of significance?



Clearly you do care that I don't like your approach - and so you should, as it will be clear to most readers that what I've said makes sense

You're obviously looking for someone to hand you a solution on a plate, and without getting up from your keyboard

As noted, this is lazy and half-arsed and won't result in anything other than a facile understanding of the field

You need to talk to people in the region where your story is set, and see for yourself what the job is about - and you'll also need to ensure that people from the industry proof your script

And for what it's worth, I write for a living ...


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

northmanlogging said:


> Thats a big question...
> 
> poke around on this forum for a few months and it will give you a start.
> 
> But to narrow things down a bit, do you have a location for this screen play, cause every area of the country has its own way of logging, its own terms and colloquialisms etc.
> 
> its break fast time... I'll get back to this in a minute.


Well, I had it set in Oregon, but I might change it to Washington. Ultimately, it's gonna be up to production and budget where they want to film it. But I at least get to dream up the location!


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

ArthurB said:


> Clearly you do care that I don't like your approach - and so you should, as it will be clear to most readers that what I've said makes sense
> 
> You're obviously looking for someone to hand you a solution on a plate, and without getting up from your keyboard
> 
> As noted, this is lazy and half-arsed and won't result in anything other than a facile understanding of the field
> 
> You need to talk to people in the region where your story is set, and see for yourself what the job is about - and you'll also need to ensure that people from the industry proof your script
> 
> And for what it's worth, I write for a living ...


Well, Arthur, never judge a book by its cover... it may be a cliche, but it's said for a reason. I find your advice completely negative and unhelpful. You think I don't know that traveling is a good idea? Of course it is! You know what else is a good idea? Asking questions to things you DON'T find in books. Let me ask you this: have you ever worked as a journalist before? Journalists ask questions: who, what, when, where, why, and how. Without asking questions, you will never know the answer. And I find you completely belligerent and disrespectful.


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

northmanlogging said:


> Thats a big question...
> 
> poke around on this forum for a few months and it will give you a start.
> 
> But to narrow things down a bit, do you have a location for this screen play, cause every area of the country has its own way of logging, its own terms and colloquialisms etc.
> 
> its break fast time... I'll get back to this in a minute.


YES, Oregon/Washington... haven't decided on which yet.


----------



## Trx250r180

Need @RandyMac in here ,His stories could make up a whole book .


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

northmanlogging said:


> Mills....
> 
> Mills are where logs go to get turned into boards, sawdust, pulp, and various other things... but I assume you knew that...
> 
> logs are shipped to the mill either by truck or by water though water shipments are getting rarer (between mills they will ship these often enough but river drives of yore are no more)
> once logs are unloaded they are then scaled and graded, measured and judged for "quality" this is where the logger gets ripped off... but I digress...
> 
> the logs are usually then sorted and stacked by species and grade, waiting for their turn to be cut up (sometimes months)
> 
> when they finally start the mill process the first thing is always debarking, gets all the bark dirt and rocks off the wood, bark is then sent to compost or garden stores.
> 
> from there its all mill stuff, square the log up, and make the most boards out of em as they can, I'm not a mill guy so I only have a basic idea as to what happens inside the mill...
> 
> planed, treated, graded etc
> 
> then stacked up and shipped to your local hardware store to build tract houses in Nebraska?
> 
> As I said before this is just an overview there are so many processes and types of logging that the mind could boggle if I started rambling...
> 
> But a couple machines fer ya to look into...
> 
> Yarder
> 
> Log loader or Log Shovel (modified excavator)
> 
> Dozer, Cat, Bull Dozer
> 
> Skidder
> 
> Processor
> 
> Feller Buncher
> 
> Forwarder
> 
> Grapple Cat
> 
> Log trucks, self loaders... all sorts of fun stuff...



Great info--thanks!!


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

Gugi47 said:


> Check out this videos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and logging



Awesome videos!!!!!! I couldn't find anything like this on Youtube when I was searching. Fantastic--thank you!!!


----------



## ArthurB

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Well, Arthur, never judge a book by its cover... it may be a cliche, but it's said for a reason. I find your advice completely negative and unhelpful. You think I don't know that traveling is a good idea? Of course it is! You know what else is a good idea? Asking questions to things you DON'T find in books. Let me ask you this: have you ever worked as a journalist before? Journalists ask questions: who, what, when, where, why, and how. Without asking questions, you will never know the answer. And I find you completely belligerent and disrespectful.



So you've got a script to write, and that includes scenes about logging (in some form or other) 

And instead of doing some work, you fire up the internet and type "I'm writing a screenplay about logging & I need to know everything there is to know!"

And having done that, you then wonder why someone out there might consider this lazy and half-arsed ...


----------



## slowp

If you are serious, and I doubt that, I would suggest Morton, WA as a good, depressing town. It already had some kind of a zombie movie filmed there.
It has two MILLS, not lumber yards, one is a large cedar operation, the other a large mill that takes Doug-fir only. There are still a few loggers around the place. It has the true, depressed looking main street. I'm not sure if the bar with the pole dancing is open. I think they got shut down. Log trucks roll through town every few minutes, and the town has a big celebration coming up called the logger's jubilee.

Other locations would be the Longview/Kelso/Rainier area, or Vernonia or ??? Woods Logging and Cowlitz River Rigging would be good places to hang out in. Both are close to each other in Longview, WA. 

The mills are scarcer now as are the loggers. Go find a tavern with some beat up looking crew cab pickups parked in front--those will also have a fuel tank in the bed and lots of stuff, go in, and start your research. I haven't been in our local eating establishment for a while, but they've had logging term glossaries on their menus for a long time.


----------



## gary courtney

ropensaddle said:


> I'm not in Kansas toto rotflmfao


he is a barrel of monkies at parties I bet


----------



## northmanlogging

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Awesome photos----okay, so I'm beginning to get the picture. A chaser attaches the downed logs to a cable or hook, correct? And then I'm just trying to figure out what a harder is exactly compared to a skidder



Chaser unhooks the logs, he gets to hang out next to the yarder and do all the grunt work like winding straw line and what not.

Yarder, I assume yers was just a typo, anyway yarder is basically a converted crane, bunch of winches and a steel tower, anywhere from 2-12 winches each one having a specific function. but that gets complicated and weird to explain

The basic premise of a yarder is to get the logs off the ground and drag them up hill to where they can be further processed, this area is called a landing, cause the logs land there get it. the tower on a yarder is a mobile replacement for the old trees that where climbed and topped before the mobile yarder was invented same idea just a bit safer and easier to set up. in a nutshell you have 3-8 guy lines these stabalize the tower and keep it from tipping over, each one on it own winch, then you have a main line, haulback, and skyline each of these holding from 1000 to 3000' of cable or sometimes more, then there might even be a strawline winch... 

So the yarder is rigged up to a bunch of stumps and lift trees to keep it planted firmly on the landing, then the strawline is ran out through the unit to create a new "road" (logger term for where the logs are going to get drug through), the strawline is then used to pull the skyline or mainline (each crew and yarder seems to have their own term for these) this line being 5/8 to 1-3/8 in diameter weighing roughly .7 to 1.25 pounds per foot, whereas the strawline is usually 5/16-3/8 and cut up into sections to make it easy to drag around by hand in the bush, once the sky/main line is drug out to its respected tail hold, be it a stump or a tail tree depending on how much lift they need to yard the logs, then the rest of the rigging can be sent down on the sky line etc... any way its all rather complex when you type it out like this.... 

Once all the rigging is set up, and there will be miles of it... and each type has its own name and sub name and slang name... books have been written on this topic... and fought over... anyway the rigging crew can then start yarding logs, the rigging crew is going to be in no particluar order:

rigging slinger, like a lead for the choker setters (choker is what we use to hook the logs, it a odd shaped piece of cast steel the holds a ferul on the end of a cable to create a snare)

Choker setter, usually 1-2 depending on the size of yarder and wood, these guys alone with the rigging slinger hook the chokers to the logs.

On any rigging crew these above kids have probably the most dangerous part of the yarding process, they spend all day down hill form logs they are sending up hill... remember **** breaks...

Chaser, as above unhooks the chokers and does other landing maintenance

Hook Tender, his job is to maintain the rigging and get the next road ready. involves climbing and sometimes topping lift trees and myrad of other difficult mind bending tasks...

Yarder Engineer, thid dude usually some old fart, runs the yarder, with consists of a forest of levers and pedals to control every winch.

All these fine folks are spread out over 80-160 acres

They have to comunicate somehow so they use either radios or more commonly a deal called a Talkie Tooter, which makes a bunch of cheery whistles that can be heard miles away and over noisy diesel engines, they use a completely made up form of morse code, each function on each winch is signaled with a series of long and short whistles. The important ones to remember are 1 long means all stop, 7 long someones hurt...

A skidder, either rubber tired or tracked is basically just a big ass tractor with a big ass winch or grapple that goes out and drags logs in.

The steepness of the terrain mostly decides on whether folks are going to be logging with skidders i.e. ground based or with yarders, Shovel logging or using excavators/log shovels is the inbetween they can work on steeper ground then skidders, as well as flat ground, but are limited buy how steep they can go where as a yarder isn't so good on flat ground, but can work on some scary steep dirt.


----------



## Marshy

ArthurB said:


> So you've got a script to write, and that includes scenes about logging (in some form or other)
> 
> And instead of doing some work, you fire up the internet and type "I'm writing a screenplay about logging & I need to know everything there is to know!"
> 
> And having done that, you then wonder why someone out there might consider this lazy and half-arsed ...


Im sure she appreciates your opinion. Now that you've stated it you can move along if you don't want to participate in a constructive manner.


----------



## northmanlogging

One last thing, before I go for now...

Loggers in general are a cagey and paranoid lot, (when ma nature is tryin to kill you 6-12 hours a day, tweekers are stealing your saws and the bunny huggers are trying to take yer job 24-7 its makes one a little paranoid and careful)

So be straight forward and honest with them, unless yer making fun of someone then all bets are off... and be warned PNW loggers don't mince words if it needs said and someone needs set straight they don't waste time on "feelings" especially if lives are on the line.


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> PNW loggers don't waste time on "feelings"


 That's the last straw! I'd never want to be a logger if it meant I couldn't have feelings!


----------



## HuskStihl

ArthurB said:


> So you've got a script to write, and that includes scenes about logging (in some form or other)
> 
> And instead of doing some work, you fire up the internet and type "I'm writing a screenplay about logging & I need to know everything there is to know!"
> 
> And having done that, you then wonder why someone out there might consider this lazy and half-arsed ...


Anybody who thinks you need to understand the subject material to make an awesome movie has never seen _Youngblood_


----------



## slowp

HuskStihl said:


> That's the last straw! I'd never want to be a logger if it meant I couldn't have feelings!



I dunno. On my invented Make A Logger Fat day, I took out chocolate bunnies that were left for office people who were trying not to be fat. One guy was in awe and almost in tears and said he had never had a chocolate bunny. I explained the protocol for eating the ears first. That's what we grumpy foresters do--try to explain things. 

CW--If you follow through with this, you will be entering a realm of plain talk. Words are not minced. If somebody yells at you to get out of the way, you get out of the way and ask why at a better, calmer time. Don't move without asking if it is OK. I heard a hooktender leave his crew with this advice, "If you have any questions, don't do it." Chances are you're going to be teased. Either give it back or be quiet about it. A well developed Stink Eye is a good skill to have. 

It's the land of high testosterone, but they do like freshly baked cookies and chocolate bunnies.


----------



## madhatte

Of course you eat the damn ears first. What are we, animals?


----------



## Woody912

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Awesome videos!!!!!! I couldn't find anything like this on Youtube when I was searching. Fantastic--thank you!!!



Check out "logger Wade" on YouTube. His operation is in southern Indiana, you won't see any caulks or yarders and you will expand your vocabulary of profane words but otherwise a lot of the same stuff. Midwest stuff is worth about 10 times as much per unit of volume and usually working on flatter, less remote ground but ultimately it's about cutting trees and getting them to market. And if you get really interested, look for a "logging with horses" video


----------



## ropensaddle

Woody912 said:


> Check out "logger Wade" on YouTube. His operation is in southern Indiana, you won't see any caulks or yarders and you will expand your vocabulary of profane words but otherwise a lot of the same stuff. Midwest stuff is worth about 10 times as much per unit of volume and usually working on flatter, less remote ground but ultimately it's about cutting trees and getting them to market. And if you get really interested, look for a "logging with horses" video


They use mules here sometimes.


----------



## ArtB

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> YES, Oregon/Washington... haven't decided on which yet.


Don't forget Mossyrock, downstream from Morton, well named!
And don't forget the research into the aftermath of St Helens if you pick that area. I can cut alder firewood now and still find ash in notches of trees 35 years later!
Note: sure others have thought this, and no disrespect, but if I were single, would not mind showing you around the woods ?


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> No offense, but I didn't ask you about screenwriting. I'm asking for information about logging. I don't care if you don't like my approach! When is the last time you wrote anything of significance?



*careful!!!* he just might say: "Significance? why, _everything_ I write and post here on the AS is significant!!"

--------------------------

 LOL, so sorry ~ just couldn't resist!!! man, what a set up... purr - fect!


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Hello! Yes, I am a screenwriter, and no, I'm not a logger. *The story isn't all about logging, it's a drama/thriller that takes place in a logging town.* A lot of writers don't take the time to research their subjects and end up putting inaccurate information up on the screen. This has happened millions of times and led people to believe false information! But I appreciate your concern



*Twin Peaks Revisited ?*

have you written and posted here a one paragraph theme as to the plot of your logging town drama/thriller?...


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

ArtB said:


> Don't forget Mossyrock, downstream from Morton, well named!
> And don't forget the research into the aftermath of St Helens if you pick that area. * I can cut alder firewood now and still find ash in notches of trees 35 years later!*
> Note: sure others have thought this, and no disrespect, but if I were single, would not mind showing you around the woods ?



_>and still find ash in notches of trees 35 years later!_


that is amazing!! been on many Alder firewood excursions... *Renton, WA*... some town's names just make me smile!  am from up on the hill over by 99 and sea-tac area...


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

northmanlogging said:


> *Looks like Mt Baker, *From the other side it and down here by me it looks like someone left a cupcake in the hills, you get the better veiw in my opinion, my side is just looks like a volcano ready to destroy everything...



that's what I was thinking, too. skied it many times....


----------



## northmanlogging

ArtB said:


> Don't forget Mossyrock, downstream from Morton, well named!
> And don't forget the research into the aftermath of St Helens if you pick that area. I can cut alder firewood now and still find ash in notches of trees 35 years later!
> Note: sure others have thought this, and no disrespect, but if I were single, would not mind showing you around the woods ?



I'm not single, but I'd show ya around the woods, I'm just not part of a yarder crew, just a dumb gyppo with no money to hire help....

few machine brands to either google image search, or youtube...

Timberjack skidders

John Deere skidders loaders etc

Caterpillar et al

Garrett/Can-Car/TreeFarmer/Franklin all the same skidder

Skagit yarders, yoders, winches, towers (pronounced ska-jit not sure if its native or just someone with no teeth?)

Washington yarders

Madill yarders, loaders

Berger yarders

Tigercat all sorts of forestry stuff... mostly modern grapple stuff

Christi (y?) yarders and a bitchin carriage

Thunderbird yarders loaders

Skylead

Koller 

KMC some bitchin tracked skidders that look a little like tanks with blades on the front... just a nightmare for maintenance

Lots of good stuff out there....

Some where's in Arboristsite, there is a glossary of logging terms/slang, probably in the forestry and logging forum as well... someone will put up a link I'm sure.


----------



## northmanlogging

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> that's what I was thinking, too. skied it many times....



Snowmobiles fer me... skiing just looks like a good way to break a knee and sweat a bunch on yer day off... not that snowmobiles are easy, but your sure go faster doing it...


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Awesome photos----okay, so I'm beginning to get the picture. A chaser attaches the downed logs to a cable or hook, correct? *And then I'm just trying to figure out what a harder is exactly compared to a skidder*



one-liner omitted as courtesy to General Audiences...


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

ArthurB said:


> Clearly you do care that I don't like your approach - and so you should, as it will be clear to most readers that what I've said makes sense You're obviously looking for someone to hand you a solution on a plate, and without getting up from your keyboard As noted, this is lazy and half-arsed and won't result in anything other than a facile understanding of the field You need to talk to people in the region where your story is set, and see for yourself what the job is about - and you'll also need to ensure that people from the industry proof your script And for what it's worth, I write for a living ...



naw!!! imo, u r a bit off base. nothing wrong with someone who is pure novice to all about anything related to all aspects of logging, etc... to join a site like this, spark up some conversation... and listen to the the posts, silence and noise! pick out then what suits them... investigate this and that further... and learn.

its all about learning... and there are many ways to do that.


----------



## slowp

Go to a logging museum. They exist. 
I still think this is a trolling expedition.


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

ArthurB said:


> So you've got a script to write, and that includes scenes about logging (in some form or other) And instead of doing some work, you fire up the internet and type "I'm writing a screenplay about logging & I need to know everything there is to know!" And having done that, you then wonder why someone out there might consider this lazy and half-arsed ...



_>And instead of doing some work,
_
oh please!! 

...you may not feel like contributing anything proactive or constructive... but this thread reads like: "Hey, glad u wrote us, sure... we will be happy to help you...!"

snide comments and politics aside...

_>And having done that, you then wonder why someone out there might consider this lazy and half-arsed_

again, oh please!! what do u think ur non-encouraging posts are going to do?... run her off? 

 LMAO!


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

slowp said:


> If you are serious, and I doubt that, I would suggest Morton, WA as a good, depressing town. It already had some kind of a zombie movie filmed there.
> It has two MILLS, not lumber yards, one is a large cedar operation, the other a large mill that takes Doug-fir only. There are still a few loggers around the place. It has the true, depressed looking main street. I'm not sure if the bar with the pole dancing is open. I think they got shut down. Log trucks roll through town every few minutes, and the town has a big celebration coming up called the logger's jubilee.
> 
> Other locations would be the Longview/Kelso/Rainier area, or Vernonia or ??? Woods Logging and Cowlitz River Rigging would be good places to hang out in. Both are close to each other in Longview, WA.
> 
> The mills are scarcer now as are the loggers. Go find a tavern with some beat up looking crew cab pickups parked in front--those will also have a fuel tank in the bed and lots of stuff, go in, and start your research. I haven't been in our local eating establishment for a while, but they've had logging term glossaries on their menus for a long time.




opinions are just that! opinions... what is wrong with reading the menu posted on the window next to the front door... and eating at the place across the street??


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> Go to a logging museum. They exist.
> I still think this is a trolling expedition.



meh even if it is its furthering more conversation about logging in a posotive light


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

bitzer said:


> *One thing you are not going to get from his forum are the sounds and smells of Logging*.



oh, I don't know... from the content of some of these posts... methinks... maybe as such, that is not the case...


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

northmanlogging said:


> meh even if it is its furthering more conversation about logging in a posotive light



_>even if it is its furthering more conversation about logging in a posotive light_

imo, its one of the best threads on logging here on the AS I have come across of late... many posts are simply really good!  very pro-active. constructive, helpful and contributing...


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

Marshy said:


> Im sure she appreciates your opinion. Now that you've stated it you can move along if you don't want to participate in a constructive manner.



Like x 10


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

northmanlogging said:


> One last thing, before I go for now...
> 
> Loggers in general are a cagey and paranoid lot, (when ma nature is tryin to kill you 6-12 hours a day, tweekers are stealing your saws and the bunny huggers are trying to take yer job 24-7 its makes one a little paranoid and careful)
> 
> *So be straight forward and honest with them*, unless yer making fun of someone then all bets are off... and be warned PNW loggers don't mince words if it needs said and someone needs set straight they don't waste time on "feelings" especially if lives are on the line.



as presented, I think OP has and is... as in: _"Can anyone help me?...."_

it's already on page 6!


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

HuskStihl said:


> That's the last straw! I'd never want to be a logger if it meant I couldn't have feelings!



Amen! catch a swinging log, limb... and you will da*n sure know u have feelings! "ouch!, dang, that hurt!!!"


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

HuskStihl said:


> Anybody who thinks you need to understand the subject material to make an awesome movie has never seen _Youngblood_



well, I haven't... but thanks! am headed over to Netflix to ck it out....


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

slowp said:


> I dunno. On my invented Make A Logger Fat day, I took out chocolate bunnies that were left for office people who were trying not to be fat. One guy was in awe and almost in tears and said he had never had a chocolate bunny. I explained the protocol for eating the ears first. That's what we grumpy foresters do--try to explain things.
> 
> CW--If you follow through with this, you will be entering a realm of plain talk. Words are not minced. If somebody yells at you to get out of the way, you get out of the way and ask why at a better, calmer time. Don't move without asking if it is OK. I heard a hooktender leave his crew with this advice, "If you have any questions, don't do it." Chances are you're going to be teased. Either give it back or be quiet about it. A well developed Stink Eye is a good skill to have.
> 
> _*It's the land of high testosterone, but they do like freshly baked cookies and chocolate bunnies*_.



some posters sure seem to want to upturn the applecart...


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

madhatte said:


> Of course you eat the damn ears first. What are we, animals?



Location: Puget Sound...


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

northmanlogging said:


> Snowmobiles fer me... skiing just looks like a good way to break a knee and sweat a bunch on yer day off... not that snowmobiles are easy, but your sure go faster doing it...



you are right! skiing is a good way to break a leg!... however, that's why there is Rule # 1.  *"Ski In Control!"* and its all over the mountain(s)....

I have been skiing since it was taught on tv Thursday nite at 7:30... on Seattle tv channel: _"Let's Go Skiing!"_

to me, its kinda like running a saw... if u don't know what you are doing, just leave it alone... until you do!!!


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

slowp said:


> Go to a logging museum. They exist.
> I still think this is a trolling expedition.



at least we can see you are thinking... (plse - no flame!) and so... can u share up just what u mite think OP's true motivations are?...

keywords: true motivations....


----------



## Gugi47

ArthurB said:


> Clearly you do care that I don't like your approach - and so you should, as it will be clear to most readers that what I've said makes sense
> 
> You're obviously looking for someone to hand you a solution on a plate, and without getting up from your keyboard
> 
> As noted, this is lazy and half-arsed and won't result in anything other than a facile understanding of the field
> 
> You need to talk to people in the region where your story is set, and see for yourself what the job is about - and you'll also need to ensure that people from the industry proof your script
> 
> And for what it's worth, I write for a living ...





ArthurB said:


> So you've got a script to write, and that includes scenes about logging (in some form or other)
> 
> And instead of doing some work, you fire up the internet and type "I'm writing a screenplay about logging & I need to know everything there is to know!"
> 
> And having done that, you then wonder why someone out there might consider this lazy and half-arsed ...


I don't know what is your problem.
Everybody try to help. you are the only one with negative position here. Why?
If you can't help just seat back and relax. Lat others do the help here.


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

Gugi47 said:


> I don't know what is your problem.
> Everybody try to help. you are the only one with negative position here. Why?
> *If you can't help just seat back and relax.* Lat others do the help here.



 good advice, imo. and if I mite add, as it mite help... have a cold


----------



## madhatte

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> Location: Puget Sound...



And?


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

madhatte said:


> And?



and? ...as to what?


----------



## ArtB

Think B..L.. did say west side of Kent or SeaTac in earlier post. 
Moved bck from Texas ? 

BTW, ArthurB is NOT an avatar or relation of mine <G>


----------



## bitzer

What is the plot/storyline of the movie? I generally like to know what I'm giving information for.


----------



## slowp

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> Amen! catch a swinging log, limb... and you will da*n sure know u have feelings! "ouch!, dang, that hurt!!!"



Seriously, don't even jokingly mention catching a swinging log. There have been at least a couple of on the job deaths when young guys, new to the work, have tried to stop a log that was swinging in the air when the log came into the landing. Not hurt, but killed. The log always wins.


----------



## northmanlogging

can't like that one,

Last year about this time a kid got killed near Morton doing just that.

one of my distant familly? not sure which, was tending hook when the chaser tried to catch a shotgun carriage that something broke on, kids skull went through his hat... not pretty


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> can't like that one,
> 
> Last year about this time a kid got killed near Morton doing just that.
> 
> one of my distant familly? not sure which, was tending hook when the chaser tried to catch a shotgun carriage that something broke on, kids skull went through his hat... not pretty



That's probably one of them that I read about in our local paper. There was another when the kid was trying to stop a log that was still hooked up and moving.


----------



## northmanlogging

Last year was rough as far as deaths and accidents... 

Half wonder if its because of the uptick in new logging, and therefore younger less experienced crews?

btw heading to chehalis this morn... ritchie bros auction tomorrow, gots a couple excavators I'm interested in.


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> Need @RandyMac in here ,His stories could make up a whole book .



@CaliforniaWalnut

Yes.

That what she needs to do: go aggravate RandyMac enough to put a book together on what he remembers.


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> Last year was rough as far as deaths and accidents...
> 
> Half wonder if its because of the uptick in new logging, and therefore younger less experienced crews?
> 
> btw heading to chehalis this morn... ritchie bros auction tomorrow, gots a couple excavators I'm interested in.



What excavators are you looking at?


----------



## slowp

I am hoping to head in to Chehalis, hopefully today, maybe tomorrow. I took my trailer in for a repair. The repair did not work plus the guy mentions fixing a part that does not exist on the trailer. I called the factory to confirm it does not exist. Waiting for a phone call back from the repair place.....


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

ArtB said:


> Think B..L.. did say west side of Kent or SeaTac in earlier post. Moved bck from Texas ? BTW, ArthurB is NOT an avatar or relation of mine <G>



'morning ArtB ~ Burien area... that would be west of Kent, well across the valley there, but further N. when I grew up in the area... sea-tac was just the airport. now it is the community just N of the S bound runways... etc... over to 124th and W of 99 amd military road... and demoines way... I like this thread cause it has a lot of WA state posts... great forestry pix of the Cascades... only the Cascades look like the Cascades...


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

hseII said:


> @CaliforniaWalnutYes.That what she needs to do: go aggravate RandyMac enough to put a book together on what he remembers.


----------



## northmanlogging

hseII said:


> What excavators are you looking at?



looked at a pile of em... mostly 120 size machines, hitachi 120-5 (2-3 of those) komatsu 120's more then I care to think about, but the one I bid on is an old Samsung se130 lc like a 140-160 sized machine old but runs pretty good, with thumb and forestry cage, everything else there is way newer or way too big... there was a komatsu pc600... looked like a ken doll was operating it...

Anyway auction isn't until tomorrow and I won't be there to bid in person... so I did the proxy thing... have to see what happens, and kiss my life saving and every penny of credit I have away...

By the way these big heavy iron auctions are very dangerous for anyone with money and little self control... there was a shuttle bus to haul folks around... if it had a diesel and was built to build/destroy something they had one or 20.

Got to play with a monster linkbelt log loader 3800? 350? took a couple minutes to climb into the cab... just ****ing massive


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

ropensaddle said:


> They use mules here sometimes.


Really? Mules?


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> looked at a pile of em... mostly 120 size machines, hitachi 120-5 (2-3 of those) komatsu 120's more then I care to think about, but the one I bid on is an old Samsung se130 lc like a 140-160 sized machine old but runs pretty good, with thumb and forestry cage, everything else there is way newer or way too big... there was a komatsu pc600... looked like a ken doll was operating it...
> 
> Anyway auction isn't until tomorrow and I won't be there to bid in person... so I did the proxy thing... have to see what happens, and kiss my life saving and every penny of credit I have away...
> 
> By the way these big heavy iron auctions are very dangerous for anyone with money and little self control... there was a shuttle bus to haul folks around... if it had a diesel and was built to build/destroy something they had one or 20.
> 
> Got to play with a monster linkbelt log loader 3800? 350? took a couple minutes to climb into the cab... just ****ing massive



I live 45 minutes from the Atlanta location for Richie Brothers: I remember going there in 2008, and machines were everywhere.

The market was saturated with equipment. 

Iron was selling for dimes on the dollar. 


Don't discount Kobelco: we've had good luck with the ones we've had.


----------



## hseII

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Really? Mules?



How do you think they did it before Caterpillars?


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> *Twin Peaks Revisited ?*
> 
> have you written and posted here a one paragraph theme as to the plot of your logging town drama/thriller?...


I love Twin Peaks!  David Lynch is remaking it.


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> _>And instead of doing some work,
> _
> oh please!!
> 
> ...you may not feel like contributing anything proactive or constructive... but this thread reads like: "Hey, glad u wrote us, sure... we will be happy to help you...!"
> 
> snide comments and politics aside...
> 
> _>And having done that, you then wonder why someone out there might consider this lazy and half-arsed_
> 
> again, oh please!! what do u think ur non-encouraging posts are going to do?... run her off?
> 
> LMAO!


Yes! That guy just sucks!


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

northmanlogging said:


> I'm not single, but I'd show ya around the woods, I'm just not part of a yarder crew, just a dumb gyppo with no money to hire help....
> 
> few machine brands to either google image search, or youtube...
> 
> Timberjack skidders
> 
> John Deere skidders loaders etc
> 
> Caterpillar et al
> 
> Garrett/Can-Car/TreeFarmer/Franklin all the same skidder
> 
> Skagit yarders, yoders, winches, towers (pronounced ska-jit not sure if its native or just someone with no teeth?)
> 
> Washington yarders
> 
> Madill yarders, loaders
> 
> Berger yarders
> 
> Tigercat all sorts of forestry stuff... mostly modern grapple stuff
> 
> Christi (y?) yarders and a bitchin carriage
> 
> Thunderbird yarders loaders
> 
> Skylead
> 
> Koller
> 
> KMC some bitchin tracked skidders that look a little like tanks with blades on the front... just a nightmare for maintenance
> 
> Lots of good stuff out there....
> 
> Some where's in Arboristsite, there is a glossary of logging terms/slang, probably in the forestry and logging forum as well... someone will put up a link I'm sure.



Random question, but is there a central logging office loggers visit to collect their paychecks, etc? My character runs a logging company, and his office is in a log cabin (of course) hehe and I just wondered because I'm setting some of the scenes there if the loggers ever would go to an office? Also, any unions amongst loggers?


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

hseII said:


> How do you think they did it before Caterpillars?


That's so cool! Well, I knew that some animals were involved... horses in the olden days. I didn't know some still used mules. Cool!


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

On the topic if animals there are still a couple teams of oxen used locally for skidding here.


----------



## hseII

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> That's so cool! Well, I knew that some animals were involved... horses in the olden days. I didn't know some still used mules. Cool!



YouTube it.

There was a local here that had a set of mules that would load and unload themselves on the back of the owners flatbed truck, a F-600, I believe.

Mind you this was in the 1960's. 

I wish someone would have filmed it.


----------



## northmanlogging

hseII said:


> I live 45 minutes from the Atlanta location for Richie Brothers: I remember going there in 2008, and machines were everywhere.
> 
> The market was saturated with equipment.
> 
> Iron was selling for dimes on the dollar.
> 
> 
> Don't discount Kobelco: we've had good luck with the ones we've had.



I like all machines, Kobelco is fine and dandy, but they was all newer machines... therefore big money.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

hseII said:


> YouTube it.
> 
> There was a local here that had a set of mules that would load and unload themselves on the back of the owners flatbed truck, a F-600, I believe.
> 
> Mind you this was in the 1960's.
> 
> I wish someone would have filmed it.


I'm guessing that would def be a site to see.

I'll stick with using my kids for loading when the machines are broke lol cheaper in the long run that way and teaches them team work. As I pay them $10/hr for 2 hours a day 4 days a week BUT they hav to get along and work together or they don't get paid lol


----------



## northmanlogging

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Really? Mules?



Still some folks using animals, horses and mules mostly, I've heard of folks still using oxen... but that might be a myth.

Some of the Amish are still using horsey power for just about everything



CaliforniaWalnut said:


> Random question, but is there a central logging office loggers visit to collect their paychecks, etc? My character runs a logging company, and his office is in a log cabin (of course) hehe and I just wondered because I'm setting some of the scenes there if the loggers ever would go to an office? Also, any unions amongst loggers?



Normally the "mill" sends the checks out by mail, but I've arranged to pick them up many a time, the mill will pay the logging company/outfit... then the outfit/company pays each individual, normally an hourly rate.

For the true gyppo, more gyppo then me even there is at least one mill that will pay weekly, and if you bring a load in on thursday you get paid that friday... which is good for those that either need the money right ****ing now, or mostly it seems them that owe money to the dealer... and I don't mean equipment dealer...

When I've gone into the office of one major exporter there is usually a hand full of other loggers there to pick up checks as well, its pretty much a set day of the week after x time, no matter the mill.

Other times its been after hours and talk to the mill owner direct, (usually when the office lady messes something up, never a big deal, but usually a missing address or what not) this is only with the small mills though, the big corporate mills are johny on the spot when it comes to payin folks... loggers have historically had access to many implements of destruction and are not indisposed to using them when owed money...

I log private ground, joe homeowner usually lives on site, its not uncommon for them to arrange direct pick up of their check from the mill as well, since basically when I log for someone it sometimes means they need the money bad, and yesterday.

The bigger companies all have a central office of some sort, be it the owners house, or usually an extension on a shop and equipment yard, bigger the outfit bigger the shop and yard. 

In the end though its only single jacks like me that go direct to the mill to get paid, one man shows etc...

As far as unions, there used to be, I'm not sure there still is... the one that used to run the show where I grew up, had a massive strike that failed... broke em pretty bad, no more union up there... there was bloodshed, armored busses... scabs... damned near a riot on more then one occasion...


----------



## Woos31

northmanlogging said:


> Last year was rough as far as deaths and accidents...
> 
> Half wonder if its because of the uptick in new logging, and therefore younger less experienced crews?
> 
> btw heading to chehalis this morn... ritchie bros auction tomorrow, gots a couple excavators I'm interested in.


Not a like for folks gettin hurt ever, but I think that as well Northman............. All the guys that grew up loggin before the speckled bird and all the duck squeezing are now leaving the woods but they swore tuh be damned their kid wasn't never workin in the woods so the knowledge for the most part skipped a couple generations except for hard kids that did it anyway. Well now there's a need again for people in the woods for the little logging allowed and they haven't the knowledge even from living with or around a logger to here the stories or the little things like don't never fell em in a hard wind, don't turn yer back on one as she goes, and the like as everyone knows some form of the little sayings. A lot of experience that can't do it anymore, and a lot of inexperience trying to fill those corks now (i know it's prolly spelled wrong but I'm justa a waterhead) I remember when I was real little my dad and uncles, cousins most all of em were fallers on oregon coast, anyway they's be goin on about a'ways go with yer belly and I'd look down at my belly and wonder what n'uh heck does that have to do with cut a tree!? Shrug it off and go back to playing, then course many years later the light bulb finally got juice, so maybe it was last week but I did mention a waterhead lol


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

slowp said:


> Seriously, don't even jokingly mention catching a swinging log. There have been at least a couple of on the job deaths when young guys, new to the work, have tried to stop a log that was swinging in the air when the log came into the landing. Not hurt, but killed. The log always wins.



you are right in that it's no joking matter... logging and arborist work is dangerous. trees are dangerous when they decide or start to move... in uncontrolled or desired manner...

today - over on GM ci... a guy was working tree work and he and worker misqued... and a large widow maker dropped down and hit him plumb square in the head! fortunately, he had his helmut on. knocked him down and out... but he revived soon after, albeit per his words..._ quite shaken up!_

this lil beaut dropped into my front yard this morning due to nasty storm's aggressive frontal passage. I was in house, but suddenly a THUD! the least such an event is to me is quite scary... this limb 40' or so up in my tall almost-like-Washington-State-pines...  was facing E off trunk... and ended up facing W, a full 180 spin as it came down with the wind whipping thru... and wind was not rotating... quite heavy. managed to drag to curb. was in 2 pcs. dint have to cut it up as just happened to be tree trash pickup day and city took it away for me... lock stock and barrel!... ( I liked the no cut up part! lol )

this morning in my front yard.... *"THUD!!!"* a classic Widow Maker... this limb quite heavy even in 2 pcs...




no damage, but came close to yard lites. glad dint hit roof... or me!


----------



## bitzer

Plot? 

Man did you guys all fall for the strangers with candy routine when you were kids...


----------



## slowp

bitzer said:


> Plot?
> 
> Man did you guys all fall for the strangers with candy routine when you were kids...



It is apparently about a stereotype. How many of you *actual* loggers and foresters live in a log cabin in the woods? Where I live, most people clear out the woods around their house because it slows down the moss on the roof problem, the gutters don't clog as fast, we are starved for sunlight, and there are no big trees to fall on the house during one of the wildish storms.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Anyway auction isn't until tomorrow and I won't be there to bid in person... so I did the proxy thing... have to see what happens, and kiss my life saving and every penny of credit I have away...



Yup. Stay in business long enough and you'll know all the bankers by their first names. They'll know yours, too.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Plot?
> 
> Man did you guys all fall for the strangers with candy routine when you were kids...



I think some of them did. The rest of us learned when to give something a good leaving alone.


----------



## Westboastfaller

bitzer said:


> Plot?
> 
> Man did you guys all fall for the strangers with candy routine when you were kids...


Well I'd ask you, don't you still believe in Leprechauns Paddy?
Just because you can't see them dosen't mean they ARrre not rEEEAlll remember


----------



## IyaMan

Westboastfaller said:


> Well I'd ask you, don't you still believe in Leprechauns Paddy?
> Just because you can't see them dosen't mean they ARrre not rEEEAlll paddy laddy.




Uh, are you speaking Canadian or something? 

Can you translate this into normal English for us regular folk?


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

whatz with you guys? didn't you read the plot?

handsome guy, 6'1... hits skids in large US city... decides time for new career... enters Forest Circus lotto and wins rights to log 10,000 acres somewhere in Pac NW w/all mineral rights. lats and longs not provided... kissed his down south g/f goodbye, says catch up to you later to all his other online g/f's... goes to Sears and gets him a chain saw... and he hits the road North... arrives in town, stays in the local "no-tel" motel and eats at Molly Sue's Hometown Diner... for couple weeks... he is enjoying the new pace... as quietly joined logging crew as a Newbie... they let him keep the water cool for starter job description... then while roaming his acerage one weekend discovers a running creek up on the acerage... pans some running water falls/rapids... and finds 1 and 2 oz gold nuggets...  ends up very rich... buys the small town... and hires all the local loggers to become gold miners... and everybody lives happily ever after...

_and the rest is history!_


----------



## SliverPicker

madhatte said:


> Of course you eat the damn ears first. What are we, animals?


 this is my new favoritest AS post of all time. I laughed so hard I woke up the dog. I needed that!


----------



## Trx250r180

A vampire romance thriller would sell good .


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

Trx250r180 said:


> *A vampire romance thriller would sell good* .



*Twin Streaks* as in _blood_?.....


----------



## northmanlogging

I may be gullible...but the rest of you are on drugs...


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> I may be gullible...but the rest of you are on drugs...



Not Me.


----------



## slowp

Hey Northman! I had to take the Plastic Airstream back in to get fixed and was amazed at all the stuff at Ritchie Bros. I'll have to go see one of their auctions some time. 


Yes, they fixed my trailer, I think, this time. Maybe I should write a thriller about RV places. Part of my book plot would be the good person passing out in a Denali fifth wheel in the display room. They wake to see (fill in crime here). A Fifth In The Fifth Wheel.


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

hseII said:


> Not Me.



gullible or drugs??? 

j/k, know what u mean, me neither. not sure why he said that about ALL as in all inclusive. usually a confused focus means one is definitely on drugs...

not saying, per se... merely quoting the stats....


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

slowp said:


> Hey Northman! I had to take the Plastic Airstream back in to get fixed and was amazed at all the stuff at Ritchie Bros. I'll have to go see one of their auctions some time.
> 
> 
> Yes, they fixed my trailer, I think, this time. Maybe I should write a thriller about RV places. Part of my book plot would be the good person passing out in a Denali fifth wheel in the display room. They wake to see (fill in crime here). A Fifth In The Fifth Wheel.



> Maybe I should write a thriller about RV places.

you should, no doubt it would have an *Evergreen State* flair to its theme...


----------



## hseII

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> gullible or drugs???
> 
> j/k, know what u mean, me neither. not sure why he said that about ALL as in all inclusive. usually a confused focus means one is definitely on drugs...
> 
> not saying, per se... merely quoting the stats....



Cause y'all are. 

I don't do drugs, so he wasn't talking to me.


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

hseII said:


> Cause y'all are.
> 
> I don't do drugs, so he wasn't talking to me.



me neither, but if I bot into your post, then I would be gullible for sure! and I am not any of the three....


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> Hey Northman! I had to take the Plastic Airstream back in to get fixed and was amazed at all the stuff at Ritchie Bros. I'll have to go see one of their auctions some time.
> 
> 
> Yes, they fixed my trailer, I think, this time. Maybe I should write a thriller about RV places. Part of my book plot would be the good person passing out in a Denali fifth wheel in the display room. They wake to see (fill in crime here). A Fifth In The Fifth Wheel.



watched it online... when I shoulda been workin... people be crazy at auctions, some stuff went dirt, and I mean dirt cheap, others people paid way to much for.

A good example, there where 2 komatsu 140's? maybe 160's anyway I looked at them both, only a year between the 2 but the newer one had 3 times the hours and 1/3 the maintenance. it sold fer like 75k, right next to it as in lot number xx4 and xx5 the one year older but 1/3 the hours and a better machine all around sold for 25k, if I had been thinking and better prepared I might have bid on it.

auctions are a strange thing, while yes you can get a helluva deal, a person has to be very careful not to get caught up in the bidding.

Also lots of absentee bidders at a RB auction, most of the massive excavators where being bid on by folks in Asia, or the middle east, and from the sounds of it they had deep pockets... 

In the end, I didn't get the one I bid on, I bid low on purpose, hoping to come out smelling like a rose... but like I said folks is knutz it was the oldest midsize excavator there, and it sold for more then several much newer better machines. Why? couldn't tell ya.

another example, there was an old decrepit chipper morbark? 198? vintage no title non running, probably not going to run anytime soon, last one in line and it sold for several thousand more then the runners parked next to it.

Anyway... logging and stuff...


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

northmanlogging said:


> watched it online... when I shoulda been workin... people be crazy at auctions, some stuff went dirt, and I mean dirt cheap, others people paid way to much for.
> 
> A good example, there where 2 komatsu 140's? maybe 160's anyway I looked at them both, only a year between the 2 but the newer one had 3 times the hours and 1/3 the maintenance. it sold fer like 75k, right next to it as in lot number xx4 and xx5 the one year older but 1/3 the hours and a better machine all around sold for 25k, if I had been thinking and better prepared I might have bid on it.
> 
> auctions are a strange thing, while yes you can get a helluva deal, a person has to be very careful not to get caught up in the bidding.
> 
> Also lots of absentee bidders at a RB auction, most of the massive excavators where being bid on by folks in Asia, or the middle east, and from the sounds of it they had deep pockets...
> 
> In the end, I didn't get the one I bid on, I bid low on purpose, hoping to come out smelling like a rose... but like I said folks is knutz it was the oldest midsize excavator there, and it sold for more then several much newer better machines. Why? couldn't tell ya.
> 
> another example, there was an old decrepit chipper morbark? 198? vintage no title non running, probably not going to run anytime soon, last one in line and it sold for several thousand more then the runners parked next to it.
> 
> Anyway... logging and stuff...



interesting post.


----------



## slowp

One year a friend and I talked about going and bidding on scooters. I have asked a former hooktender friend to keep an eye out for a grader. It must be dirt cheap, run well, and never ever break down. I haven't heard back from him on that. I would love to have a grader. Our road needs it. My section of the road is too rocky to blade, but the bottom and worst part could be done. I could chain it up and plow out the neighborhood if we ever had another big dump. Then I could also paint it in camo colors and stealth blade the bad FS roads. A Sirius subscription for it would be welcome. 

I have been to estate auctions. I have seen the insanity that goes on.


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> One year a friend and I talked about going and bidding on scooters. I have asked a former hooktender friend to keep an eye out for a grader. It must be dirt cheap, run well, and never ever break down. I haven't heard back from him on that. I would love to have a grader. Our road needs it. My section of the road is too rocky to blade, but the bottom and worst part could be done. I could chain it up and plow out the neighborhood if we ever had another big dump. Then I could also paint it in camo colors and stealth blade the bad FS roads. A Sirius subscription for it would be welcome.
> 
> I have been to estate auctions. I have seen the insanity that goes on.



craigslist occasionally run across and old grader, not sayin it won't break down but they is cheap, and it seams like they don't get used a whole bunch, could just be me though.

For road maintenance a mid sized dozer would do you fairly good, little handier then a grader though not as fast, and arguably easier to learn to drive. Grader is like a Zamboni but fer dirt lots of wierd levers and turnin things funny to make it work just right, dozer just has reigns and a blade control... sometimes they even have brakes.. other then the whole forward backward gears which on older machines aren't much different then a car.


----------



## northmanlogging

Then you could get the wee little grapple cat, and go do some proper cat skinnin... with a side kick that probably doesn't care much for being stuck in a noisy smelly vinyl seat with no suspension and no cat nip.


----------



## madhatte

SliverPicker said:


> this is my new favoritest AS post of all time. I laughed so hard I woke up the dog. I needed that!



Pleased to be of service!


----------



## Westboastfaller

IyaMan said:


> Uh, are you speaking Canadian or something?
> 
> Can you translate this into normal English for us regular folk?


 Ha Boy... How's about Yea?
Pretty sure Paddy, Laddy & Leprechauns come from Ireland. Ye thicker than two short planks. Wind yer neck in a wee 'n' do one love would yee or I'll knack yer Ballix in wee doll. J/K..lol
 Domo arigoto Mr Roboto
Not everything written needs to be understood. Are you 'American' living in Japan?


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> Then I could also paint it in camo colors and stealth blade the bad FS roads.



Our PW shop has I think 2 of their graders in camo, because army. One of them seldom seems to run. The rest are yellow and are pretty good machines, except for the one that is a gem. 



northmanlogging said:


> Then you could get the wee little grapple cat, and go do some proper cat skinnin... with a side kick that probably doesn't care much for being stuck in a noisy smelly vinyl seat with no suspension and no cat nip.



I have a crappy old JD tractor on my property book that for some insane reason is listed as being worth $125K. The way gubmint procurement works, if the book says you have one, you have one. If it goes away, it must be replaced. The boss and I both think it would be great to have the listing changed so that we can instead replace it with a cheap skidder. Something small and handy, mostly for clearing and repairing roads and dragging fuels apart on fires.


----------



## bitzer

Still no plot? Weird...


----------



## slowp

Road graders can be used as mileage markers. One was broken down along a haul road. What made it even more amusing was that the siderod was inside taking a nap while waiting for the shop truck. Meanwhile, trucks were going up and down stating that they were "at the grader" and sometimes wondering if the siderod was alive or not. He came to life when the shop truck arrived. 

A grader is the best for snow plowing, if the snow isn't too deep. But, sigh, a smallish cat would be more practical, probably.


----------



## Westboastfaller

Perhaps the best deal ever to go through RB auction. $463,000,000 payed by the BC tax payers and sold for a mere $19,000,000 for all three. Not even scrap metal cost. Victoria shipyards got the job to build them and It was well known that thet bought them back at auction. Apparently it's a North Vancouver based company from WA. They may very well own Victoria shipyards? They made there face on that deal. 
Currency exchange at the time was about a 3/2 ratio. That's just robbery. About 12.7 million USD. Just over 4.2 million each.
122 metres /400 ft long, 250 vehicles 1000 foot passenger 34 knots. They would have made great camps
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-fast-ferries-sold-to-uae-buyer-1.852093


----------



## Trx250r180

bitzer said:


> Still no plot? Weird...


I got a call i thought was Bs like this thread from someone claiming to be doing a movie ,they wanted local business props to be in the background to make it seem more realistic ,i still thought it was Bs at this point ,after a couple calls i sent them some of my company t-shirts ,calanders ,and some other crap bumper sticker with company logo on it ,They put my stuff in the movie ,but unless you know to look for it would most likely never see it ,mostly background scene stuff 
Ever hear of a movie called Twilight ?


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

Trx250r180 said:


> I got a call i thought was Bs like this thread from someone claiming to be doing a movie ,they wanted local business props to be in the background to make it seem more realistic ,i still thought it was Bs at this point ,after a couple calls i sent them some of my company t-shirts ,calanders ,and some other crap bumper sticker with company logo on it ,They put my stuff in the movie ,but unless you know to look for it would most likely never see it ,mostly background scene stuff Ever hear of a movie called Twilight ?



imo, you make a good point! respond to all inquiries at least semi-productively... even if doubt drives the engine. at least you know your contribution made it past the cutting room floor. when I was active M-F, 8-5 and longer most times... I always responded to international inquiries even though I knew was little more than p***ing up a rope in a strong wind! every once in a while i'd get a nibble. then one day I got a phone call from one of my responses... from Santiago Chile. mid 90's... that call in response to my attempt at whetting a rope in all but ridiculous circumstances... led to one _fabulous adventure_... that was full of international intrigue, travel and very profitable, too. I would do it again, in a  beat! ...

_>Ever hear of a movie called Twilight ?_

no, to be honest... no I haven't. but Netflix shows 2 listings titled Twilight. one avail and one not.


----------



## northmanlogging

Twilight made Forks WA and glitter famous

Something to do with pale boy things traipsing through the darkness?

Only know this cause its good to know what you should be making fun of the neighbor kids for...


----------



## northmanlogging

MrsP der is another auction in oct in chehalis... they had all sorts of dangerous stuff... there was a d-10 cat, could plow the freeway in one shot.

And now that I think about it some, if yer RV mechanic is fixing non existent items... its time to call better business folks, and find a different mechanic


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> MrsP der is another auction in oct in chehalis... they had all sorts of dangerous stuff... there was a d-10 cat, could plow the freeway in one shot.
> 
> And now that I think about it some, if yer RV mechanic is fixing non existent items... its time to call better business folks, and find a different mechanic



The RV place resolved my problem yesterday and all is OK. It was a different guy and I suspect the bad guy might be history.


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> I got a call i thought was Bs like this thread from someone claiming to be doing a movie ,they wanted local business props to be in the background to make it seem more realistic ,i still thought it was Bs at this point ,after a couple calls i sent them some of my company t-shirts ,calanders ,and some other crap bumper sticker with company logo on it ,They put my stuff in the movie ,but unless you know to look for it would most likely never see it ,mostly background scene stuff
> Ever hear of a movie called Twilight ?



Unfortunately.


----------



## super3

northmanlogging said:


> it should be self explanatory, lots of jerks have moved here over the past 20-30 years, things is getting crowded and tense, used to be known as one of the politest places in the world... sadly not so much anymore...
> 
> so don't move here...




and you think that's only happening in your little corner of the US, right?

Just because all the rest of us don't live in the vast PNW doesn't mean our peace and quiet isn't getting ruined just like yours.


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> you are right in that it's no joking matter... logging and arborist work is dangerous. trees are dangerous when they decide or start to move... in uncontrolled or desired manner...
> 
> today - over on GM ci... a guy was working tree work and he and worker misqued... and a large widow maker dropped down and hit him plumb square in the head! fortunately, he had his helmut on. knocked him down and out... but he revived soon after, albeit per his words..._ quite shaken up!_
> 
> this lil beaut dropped into my front yard this morning due to nasty storm's aggressive frontal passage. I was in house, but suddenly a THUD! the least such an event is to me is quite scary... this limb 40' or so up in my tall almost-like-Washington-State-pines...  was facing E off trunk... and ended up facing W, a full 180 spin as it came down with the wind whipping thru... and wind was not rotating... quite heavy. managed to drag to curb. was in 2 pcs. dint have to cut it up as just happened to be tree trash pickup day and city took it away for me... lock stock and barrel!... ( I liked the no cut up part! lol )
> 
> this morning in my front yard.... *"THUD!!!"* a classic Widow Maker... this limb quite heavy even in 2 pcs...
> 
> View attachment 516371
> 
> Yikes! Glad no one was hurt.
> 
> no damage, but came close to yard lites. glad dint hit roof... or me!


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

hseII said:


> Unfortunately.


That's cool! Well, I've always enjoyed watching movies and filmmaking is the greatest art form of the 20th and 21st century. Hopefully, y'all will all see this movie one day soon and enjoy it.  It's not Twilight, but it does have fantasy elements to it.


----------



## CaliforniaWalnut

Woos31 said:


> Not a like for folks gettin hurt ever, but I think that as well Northman............. All the guys that grew up loggin before the speckled bird and all the duck squeezing are now leaving the woods but they swore tuh be damned their kid wasn't never workin in the woods so the knowledge for the most part skipped a couple generations except for hard kids that did it anyway. Well now there's a need again for people in the woods for the little logging allowed and they haven't the knowledge even from living with or around a logger to here the stories or the little things like don't never fell em in a hard wind, don't turn yer back on one as she goes, and the like as everyone knows some form of the little sayings. A lot of experience that can't do it anymore, and a lot of inexperience trying to fill those corks now (i know it's prolly spelled wrong but I'm justa a waterhead) I remember when I was real little my dad and uncles, cousins most all of em were fallers on oregon coast, anyway they's be goin on about a'ways go with yer belly and I'd look down at my belly and wonder what n'uh heck does that have to do with cut a tree!? Shrug it off and go back to playing, then course many years later the light bulb finally got juice, so maybe it was last week but I did mention a waterhead lol


I have a question for you: how would you say logging has been negatively impacted by environmentalists? Would you say there is power/corruption/greed/ behind the so-called "tree huggers?" And any specific examples you can provide would be fantastic... of actually communities shutting down etc. because of rare birds and what not... Thanks for your help!


----------



## ArtB

_another auction in oct in Chehalis_

brings back the memory of good times - 1972 auction of the old shipbuilding machine shop next to the old Darigold plant.
2400 pounds of blacksmith tools in one lot, won the bid at $132, sold over $200 in tongs a few at a time prior to getting it all in the '67 Datsn truck, sat that puppy right down on the rubber bumpers.
$132 back then was nearly a weeks wages !


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

SliverPicker said:


> this is my new favoritest AS post of all time. I laughed so hard I woke up the dog. I needed that!


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack

ArtB said:


> _another auction in oct in Chehalis_
> 
> brings back the memory of good times - 1972 auction of the old shipbuilding machine shop next to the old Darigold plant.
> 2400 pounds of blacksmith tools in one lot, won the bid at $132, sold over $200 in tongs a few at a time prior to getting it all in the '67 Datsn truck, sat that puppy right down on the rubber bumpers.
> *$132 back then was nearly a weeks wages !*



you are right! $115.00 would rent a pretty nice apartment... in or above Renton... $ 1800.00 would buy a really nice '62 'Vette 4-speed convertible... if you paid over $225.00 for a 1930 Model A coupe you prolly paid too much... $1200 would buy a nice new Triumph Bonneville and a $18, 500.00 house in Seattle came with 2 wood burning fireplaces... and a garage, too!  back when society and the economy had not quite gotten too big for its own britches...

_"now look!, sure a fine mess you got us into..."_


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## Westboastfaller

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> I have a question for you: how would you say logging has been negatively impacted by environmentalists? Would you say there is power/corruption/greed/ behind the so-called "tree huggers?" And any specific examples you can provide would be fantastic... of actually communities shutting down etc. because of rare birds and what not... Thanks for your help!


Propaganda! Hypocrisy! Just look in my signature below. Hate the game not the player.
Protest the government buildings and fight all they like but don't dare step in the way of a person trying to go to their job. Then they get there they find a bunch of trespassers have spiked the tree's.
Just Google Captain Paul Watson, Greenpeace (Wikipedia, controversy) Paul Watson tree spiking.
"Save a Logger eat an Owl"
Was a bumper sticker that was around Vancouver Island maybe late 80's early 90's in support of shutdowns that started in @Woos31 state (Oregon) Most likely the stickers came up from WA/OR I believe it had the trickle down effect..Erm trickle up effect in this case.


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## KiwiBro

Westboastfaller said:


> Perhaps the best deal ever to go through RB auction. $463,000,000 payed by the BC tax payers and sold for a mere $19,000,000 for all three. Not even scrap metal cost. Victoria shipyards got the job to build them and It was well known that thet bought them back at auction. Apparently it's a North Vancouver based company from WA. They may very well own Victoria shipyards? They made there face on that deal.
> Currency exchange at the time was about a 3/2 ratio. That's just robbery. About 12.7 million USD. Just over 4.2 million each.
> 122 metres /400 ft long, 250 vehicles 1000 foot passenger 34 knots. They would have made great camps
> http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-fast-ferries-sold-to-uae-buyer-1.852093


How's this for an RB Auction:


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## CaliforniaWalnut

Westboastfaller said:


> Propaganda! Hypocrisy! Just look in my signature below. Hate the game not the player.
> Protest the government buildings and fight all they like but don't dare step in the way of a person trying to go to their job. Then they get there they find a bunch of trespassers have spiked the tree's.
> Just Google Captain Paul Watson, Greenpeace (Wikipedia, controversy) Paul Watson tree spiking.
> "Save a Logger eat an Owl"
> Was a bumper sticker that was around Vancouver Island maybe late 80's early 90's in support of shutdowns that started in @Woos31 state (Oregon) Most likely the stickers came up from WA/OR I believe it had the trickle down effect..Erm trickle up effect in this case.


Ugh. That's insane! Good to know, though. Thanks for the info.


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## CaliforniaWalnut

I'm going to go finish watching all the videos you guys posted! Really interesting historical stuff..


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## slowp

I've definitely got to go to that October auction just out of curiosity. Do they have food vendors at their auctions? Do you have to pay to get in?


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## Woos31

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> I have a question for you: how would you say logging has been negatively impacted by environmentalists? Would you say there is power/corruption/greed/ behind the so-called "tree huggers?" And any specific examples you can provide would be fantastic... of actually communities shutting down etc. because of rare birds and what not... Thanks for your help!


Well first off I'll say I hope you're sincere with thing while and not some Jack wagon stick in the mud leading a goose chase. I would venture to say that since the 70's logging has been negatively impacted by environmentalists and has only gotten worse every year. Now also understand that the logging side of it wasn't straight and narrow either...........it was a take it all and as much of it as we get rape and pillage affair of sorts. Moving forward practices changed and evolved to meet the times and whatever other rules the anti side could bring forth to slow or stop logging altogether as if as soon as the crummy fires up and is out of site of town it's still all rape and pillage. Not so, there's much better management practices out there and believe it or not .........a forest isn't healthy if there are to many trees and yes old growth are still on the list of cut trees because they'll go to waste, fall over and rot away, or became a monsterous hazard to road or walking trail. Worst of all catastrophic fire can desimate an entire forest where no thinning or logging was done to reduce fire fuel, this can cause ecosystem collapse due to the fire having so much available fuel to get hot enough it will neutralize the soil and nothing comes back in..........everything wasted. You don't spend all summer tending your garden religiously and grow these big juicy tomatoes then leave them just to rot off the plant into? Sort of a similar idea and best example I've got at the moment. As for the tree huggin part they always have a reason for shutting a logging operation down weather it's a bird, plant, or other purple footed tree dweller (sarchasm). When I hear people's view that logging is this horrible thing which I was raised off the clear cut everything ideal of the 80's and it was an ugly time and it didn't help itself at all, but back in track I honestly want to ask people what they live in, what is it that you write on, what do you wipe your a$$ with? Because I feel it very hypocritical to be all save the earth on loggers but then after they go home to a 5000 sq ft house made of trees, read the newspaper again trees, and they're gonna require a bathroom break and again trees to clean themself up. They really need a logger more than realized. For your question about greed I think that one is a push.........meaning both parties are equally as greedy toward their thoughts and direction. But in the end they're both so passionate about the trees that neither wants see that's actually what they both want is to help mantain a healthier forest. Except the loggers will have a healthier forest..................and here's why; a logger is going to clear cut some areas tactfully now days which gives every animal in the woods fresh grasses and forage out in the sunlight and the next generation of trees to be planted. Other areas will be thinned to let more light to the forest floor and the trees won't be chocking out any ground foliage that deer and elk need to live off of. In turn the remaining trees will be a stronger tree because the competition for water and nutrients is cut in half so to say and they'll be that much bigger in say 20 years. The forest won't be so overgrown that nothing can grow for the ground level critter has nothing to forage on and safety from predators won't be there. Also if a fire ever got started and I'm thinking in terms of the west coast of oregon here, its been so dry there the past few summers that nothing would stop a wild fire but winter................that would be complete catastrophic fire like you see in parts of Oregon and Washington east of the cascade mountains, California, Montana and the list goes on. Managing the forests everywhere has gone by the wayside and it very sad and very scary to me. Its not all environmentalists doing that let this lackadaisical management style take a hold, but that movement is a contributing factor largely because people eventually have up fighting the ideal over and over again to try and do their job, to try and manage a healthy forest, to try and do what they used to love and provide for their family. Now you see all these bigger, more destructive fires, and more of these fires every year because there has been no thinning, there's been no fuel reduction, just overgrown unmanaged forest just waiting for a spark. Then it's devastatingly destroyed, and what's left in burnt timber that could be salvaged for some good, nope that timber sale just got appealed by a college class that was instructed to pick any sale and appeal it for their term finale. Yes you heard correct, it happened to a sale 20 years ago that my father in law had spent countless hours preparing when he worked for the forest service and later found out why it never flew. A professor back east instructed his class that their task was to (maybe appeal isn't the right word on thinking of) appeal a timber sale somewhere and everything went away.


----------



## Woos31

This was very respectful view on this @CaliforniaWalnut and I worked on it last night and finished this morning without losing my temper, the propaganda and hypocrisy @Westboastfaller mentioned took a job from my dad and food from my families mouth when I was growing up. Being a timber fallers son out of a family of loggers and timber fallers you could maybe understand my frustration.


----------



## northmanlogging

CaliforniaWalnut said:


> I have a question for you: how would you say logging has been negatively impacted by environmentalists? Would you say there is power/corruption/greed/ behind the so-called "tree huggers?" And any specific examples you can provide would be fantastic... of actually communities shutting down etc. because of rare birds and what not... Thanks for your help!



Trace the money, "non" profit lawyers make millions off suing the Forest Service over proposed timber sales. About a year ago, on craigs list Greenpeace was hiring folks to "recruit" "earth warriors", they where offering $15 an hour and probably had 150 ads just in the seattle area, at $25 bucks an add. 

Its proven profitable, every time some yahoo suits the gub-a-mint on behalf of the critters or whatever, they get multi million dollar settlements, not the critters mind you, the lawyers and non profit earth friendly groups are getting massive amounts of cashola.

So every time they can squeak in another endangered critter, they have the chance to make a bundle.

To add insult to injury, the spotted own research was flawed from the get go, and they admitted it, claiming that spotted owls only live in old growth forest... meanwhile they never bothered to look in second growth forest... personally I've only seen spotted owls in second growth...

The town of Darrington, is more or less where I grew up, its tiny now, at one time there where 4 mills in and around town, now there is only 1, everybody I knew as a child was involved in logging some how or some way. Then the Forest Service shut down the woods because of the spotted owl...

Within weeks most everyone had lost their jobs, within months folks started moving away, its pretty much a ghost town now... trying to rely on "tourism dollars" which is **** cause folks are going to buy their supplies closer to civilization, not up in the sticks where stuffs expensive and choices are slim. And its nearly free to go on a hike. 



slowp said:


> I've definitely got to go to that October auction just out of curiosity. Do they have food vendors at their auctions? Do you have to pay to get in?



I think so? the main auction area is like a gymnasium, may have been a cafeteria hiding in there somewhere.


----------



## grizz55chev

Woos31 said:


> This was very respectful view on this @CaliforniaWalnut and I worked on it last night and finished this morning without losing my temper, the propaganda and hypocrisy @Westboastfaller mentioned took a job from my dad and food from my families mouth when I was growing up. Being a timber fallers son out of a family of loggers and timber fallers you could maybe understand my frustration.


My favorite bumper sticker in my garage reads " Earth first, we'll log the other planets later ".


----------



## Woos31

grizz55chev said:


> My favorite bumper sticker in my garage reads " Earth first, we'll log the other planets later ".


Yes sir! I like the other I think it's a t-shirt with a $hit load of stumps on it that says "don't worry........... I hugged them all first"


----------



## slowp

Woos31, it was an assignment in a class at Wellesly College that appealed a heck of a lot of timber sales in the early 1990s. They cost tax payers a lot of extra dollars because all appeals must be taken seriously. I've seen a sale appealed because an area had "good vibrations" in it. I can't think of the name of the sale, but it was up by Oroville, WA in the Mt. Hull area. Even that had to be addressed by at least the statement that it fell outside of the scope of the project. 

The owl fiasco also has affected the Forest Service. In the 1990s, there was what we call a purge to get rid of the foresters and engineers and replace them with specialists ('ologists). That's when I started my move around to keep a job that I liked exile. The then labeled "surplus" timber people were moved over to the eastside, where timber sales were supposed to keep on and maybe even produce more--fuels reduction. That didn't happen. The eastside districts then had to get rid of "positions" and some of the recently moved westsiders had more seniority -- well, it was a big musical chair like, costly affair. 

Now, we timber folks used to be fire qualified as well because we were out and about enough to keep in some semblance of shape. Most had started out in some kind of lowly work like planting trees and marking timber. We were used to going out, working hard, and getting dirty. 

Not so with many (not all) of the newly hired specialists. They did not further their education just so they had to work on the end of a shovel or pulaski. So, many fire qualified people left the area. In my opinion, that has contributed to the growth in acreage of today's fires. There aren't enough people out in the woods to catch the fires before the fires grow in size. 

Right now, the FS could not increase their timber sale program by very much. They do not have the timber workforce that they used to. Most all of the very knowledgeable people have retired. The entry level positions have been farmed out to contractors. Where I live, even the timber marking is done by the purchaser or logger. 

That's where things stand. Meanwhile, the wildfires are starting to go here. We'll have money tossed away like crazy on fires, and maybe some money spent in the small towns for lunches.


----------



## Woos31

slowp said:


> Woos31, it was an assignment in a class at Wellesly College that appealed a heck of a lot of timber sales in the early 1990s. They cost tax payers a lot of extra dollars because all appeals must be taken seriously. I've seen a sale appealed because an area had "good vibrations" in it. I can't think of the name of the sale, but it was up by Oroville, WA in the Mt. Hull area. Even that had to be addressed by at least the statement that it fell outside of the scope of the project.
> 
> The owl fiasco also has affected the Forest Service. In the 1990s, there was what we call a purge to get rid of the foresters and engineers and replace them with specialists ('ologists). That's when I started my move around to keep a job that I liked exile. The then labeled "surplus" timber people were moved over to the eastside, where timber sales were supposed to keep on and maybe even produce more--fuels reduction. That didn't happen. The eastside districts then had to get rid of "positions" and some of the recently moved westsiders had more seniority -- well, it was a big musical chair like, costly affair.
> 
> Now, we timber folks used to be fire qualified as well because we were out and about enough to keep in some semblance of shape. Most had started out in some kind of lowly work like planting trees and marking timber. We were used to going out, working hard, and getting dirty.
> 
> Not so with many (not all) of the newly hired specialists. They did not further their education just so they had to work on the end of a shovel or pulaski. So, many fire qualified people left the area. In my opinion, that has contributed to the growth in acreage of today's fires. There aren't enough people out in the woods to catch the fires before the fires grow in size.
> 
> Right now, the FS could not increase their timber sale program by very much. They do not have the timber workforce that they used to. Most all of the very knowledgeable people have retired. The entry level positions have been farmed out to contractors. Where I live, even the timber marking is done by the purchaser or logger.
> 
> That's where things stand. Meanwhile, the wildfires are starting to go here. We'll have money tossed away like crazy on fires, and maybe some money spent in the small towns for lunches.


True that! That's what happened to my family, dad grew up on the oregon coast and the whole family was fallers or some for of logging............then in 90 like you said it all came to head and we went to eastern Oregon John day specifically and my uncle's contract falling business went a few more years but eventually secumbed like you said to the big change. The FS timber workforce probably matches the logging workforce available if it did increase. The chit runs downhill effect left a big gap in the contracting sector too as with the FS personell so there were no incoming businesses to learn what the retirement age folks now knew then of thinning and timber. There were some in sure but it seems like say my generation didn't really bring in any or do time any logging shows as demand was WAY down. This is nothing new for info to anyone, but it sure feels good to say it anyway haha


----------



## slowp

Just got back from brain stimulation--my walk. When I started with the FS, there were people to learn from. One guy could estimate the correct volume of a unit just by walking through it. His walking estimate would be right in the ballpark of the official timber cruise. 

When I got "old", there was nobody to pass on any skills to. 

We used to joke about "virtual forestry" and that is no longer a joke. However, it is only as acurate as the data that was put into it, and if you get out and check things on the ground, you will find lots of errors. Unfortunately, that data is used for planning and some people don't want to leave the office environment. You may have protected wetlands where there are no wetlands.

I'm glad I left.


----------



## northmanlogging

I've said it before, but I spent most of my middle/high school summers helping my uncle log, and or cutting firewood with the family. Most of what I know about logging comes from my uncles, one at the time was actively logging, but then scrambled and found work at the boing, the other decided a long time before I was born to get into wrenching, but still played with timber from time to time.

The early 90's where a rough time in Darrington, I graduated in 96, but pretty much knew there wasn't any chance of logging right out of school so got into a trade school through the high school as a way out of a dying town. It worked for awhile, but couldn't keep me out of the brush. 

during the early 90's the export market went bananas. Largely because of the FS shutting down, and a ban on fed land being used to export timber, which is still in effect. Eventually that market dried up too. Its coming back around again now, last couple years have been pretty good.

For some reason I believe that going logging full time is the way to go... the whole trade school thing is the dead end now, low wages, everything getting farmed out to India or China etc... 

Anyway the point is that with the Fed lands being cornholed by the "bunny huggers" it dashed a lot of folks dreams and lives, lots of folks turned to drinking and drugging to escape a stark reality of no work, no unemployment, no hope (hey much like inner cities...)


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> I've definitely got to go to that October auction just out of curiosity. Do they have food vendors at their auctions? Do you have to pay to get in?



entry is free, they wan't you to spend money... so loans is easy too...

Much like a strip club only bring as much money as your willing to part with.


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## Westboastfaller

northmanlogging said:


> entry is free, they wan't you to spend money... so loans is easy too...
> 
> 
> Much like a strip club only bring as much money as your willing to part with.


Now she knows exactly how much to bring


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> You may have protected wetlands where there are no wetlands.



I had to keep a dozer out of one on a fire last week.


----------



## Hddnis

When I was young we went camping down the coast to visit my dads folks in California. We camped because money was tight so what there was went to gas for the trip. Dad had a VW bus and pulled a small trailer with all the camping stuff. Mom got the trailer by trading a big freezer we really didn't need to a neighbor. Dad worked on it several weekends to get it ready, it was a simple 4x6' utility trailer that he set up with a hinged plywood top that folded out into a table. A tarp kept the rain out so the sleeping bags stayed mostly dry.

Late one afternoon just outside a little town in N. California one of the bearings in the right hub on the trailer decided that it had enough and so it melted down. We parked in the parking lot of an auto parts store and bought a new bearing and some grease. We started working on it, but dad only brought a limited amount of tools and that race was welded on there. A guy and his wife stopped to help us. He was dirty and loud, he looked like a caveman but he was a diesel mechanic, once you got to know him a little he clearly had a good heart, worked hard, and was generous even to total strangers. His wife talked to mom while we worked on the trailer.

He finally got the old bearing off, the new one put on and several hours later we were ready to go. Dad offered him money for helping us but he refused, he said "As long as you don't hug trees or worship that stupid owl I won't take a dime."

As we started on our way again mom said that the wife told her that he had just been laid off at the mill, they were cutting 75% of the workforce because the spotted owl had shut down all the logging.

I drove through that town about ten years ago. The mill is gone. The auto parts store is gone. There are vacant buildings everywhere. It is clear that every so called economic recovery has never trickled down to that town. All around the town there are trees as far as the eye can see. I kept my eyes peeled for a loud dirty old man in a beat up old truck, but he too was nowhere to be found. Just another little American town killed by the false religion of environmentalism and bad decisions made by an out of touch government.


----------



## Gologit

Hddnis said:


> When I was young we went camping down the coast to visit my dads folks in California. We camped because money was tight so what there was went to gas for the trip. Dad had a VW bus and pulled a small trailer with all the camping stuff. Mom got the trailer by trading a big freezer we really didn't need to a neighbor. Dad worked on it several weekends to get it ready, it was a simple 4x6' utility trailer that he set up with a hinged plywood top that folded out into a table. A tarp kept the rain out so the sleeping bags stayed mostly dry.
> 
> Late one afternoon just outside a little town in N. California one of the bearings in the right hub on the trailer decided that it had enough and so it melted down. We parked in the parking lot of an auto parts store and bought a new bearing and some grease. We started working on it, but dad only brought a limited amount of tools and that race was welded on there. A guy and his wife stopped to help us. He was dirty and loud, he looked like a caveman but he was a diesel mechanic, once you got to know him a little he clearly had a good heart, worked hard, and was generous even to total strangers. His wife talked to mom while we worked on the trailer.
> 
> He finally got the old bearing off, the new one put on and several hours later we were ready to go. Dad offered him money for helping us but he refused, he said "As long as you don't hug trees or worship that stupid owl I won't take a dime."
> 
> As we started on our way again mom said that the wife told her that he had just been laid off at the mill, they were cutting 75% of the workforce because the spotted owl had shut down all the logging.
> 
> I drove through that town about ten years ago. The mill is gone. The auto parts store is gone. There are vacant buildings everywhere. It is clear that every so called economic recovery has never trickled down to that town. All around the town there are trees as far as the eye can see. I kept my eyes peeled for a loud dirty old man in a beat up old truck, but he too was nowhere to be found. Just another little American town killed by the false religion of environmentalism and bad decisions made by an out of touch government.



Was the town Orick?


----------



## madhatte

Hddnis: that is an excellent post.


----------



## bitzer

I still call ******** on this whole thread. Unfortunately some good people put some good time into it. If anything someone who wants to know more about Logging should have a good read.

Still no plot...


----------



## slowp

bitzer said:


> I still call ******** on this whole thread. Unfortunately some good people put some good time into it. If anything someone who wants to know more about Logging should have a good read.
> 
> Still no plot...



Not really. I learned there might be a place to eat at the Richie Bros. auction. Drove past it yesterday--it is on one of my routes to go shopping, and saw they still had stuff on their lot. In fact, going at 70mph by, it looked like excavators. 

IF a "screenplay" is written, it will be the usual stupid stereotype with errors that are obvious to some of us, but the so called author will think she is doing a great work of art and is accurate enough. I agree with it being BS.


----------



## ArthurB

madhatte said:


> Hddnis: that is an excellent post.



It's also quite obviously a complete fabrication

And as others have suggested, this whole thread is at best BS


----------



## northmanlogging

bs or not, someone asks a question it should get the best answer possible, don't care who it is or their motives, personally I've been lied too or have had the truth hidden way to many times, I'd rather not pass that torch on down.


----------



## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> bs or not, someone asks a question it should get the best answer possible, don't care who it is or their motives, personally I've been lied too or have had the truth hidden way to many times, I'd rather not pass that torch on down.


good onya, and thanks.


----------



## moondoggie

I am enjoying the wisdom that everyone is sharing. Some of it is heart breaking, So is wisdom sometimes it seems. 

Thank you greatly for letting me listen!


----------



## Westboastfaller

Gologit said:


> Was the town Orick?


Don't tell us you were the dirty loud old man from the story he went seeking out 10 year ago.


----------



## HuskStihl

Westboastfaller said:


> Don't tell us you were the dirty loud old man from the story he went seeking out 10 year ago.


I was thinking the same thing, but then remembered Bob was an old man in 1973. I bet he's only dirty and loud at work tho!


----------



## Westboastfaller

KiwiBro said:


> How's this for an RB Auction:


 nice camp! I see it's in peace river Alberta. Many of the Alberta camps have the same layout and furnishing. I don't remember one with a court though.
Some have a circular middle with the wings all attached, I stayed in one that was 7000 person in Fort McMurray 
(Fort Mac) Its just like a big penitentiary except this time you have the keys.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> bs or not, someone asks a question it should get the best answer possible, don't care who it is or their motives, personally I've been lied too or have had the truth hidden way to many times, I'd rather not pass that torch on down.


Unless you're helping the enemy. You're a good straightforward guy Matt and you've taken a lot of time to put good info on here and I applaud you for that. I was not trying to belittle your efforts. I just don't like seeing good people exert lots of energy over other people or things that don't return the favor or feel the same way. "She" still as yet has revealed no plot. Most stories can be summed up in a paragraph or two. What are her motivations? Why would she take a picture of herself in front of a closet to post as her avatar picture ( kind of a dumb question but why use such a dumb picture)? You and others have given a lot. Where is her contribution? Where is a synopsis of the plot? Would you give logs to a mill and not expect payment? This world is about give and take. You have to wonder about the ones that only take. I wouldn't give them much once I've figured it out.


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Unless you're helping the enemy. You're a good straightforward guy Matt and you've taken a lot of time to put good info on here and I applaud you for that. I was not trying to belittle your efforts. I just don't like seeing good people exert lots of energy over other people or things that don't return the favor or feel the same way. "She" still as yet has revealed no plot. Most stories can be summed up in a paragraph or two. What are her motivations? Why would she take a picture of herself in front of a closet to post as her avatar picture ( kind of a dumb question but why use such a dumb picture)? You and others have given a lot. Where is her contribution? Where is a synopsis of the plot? Would you give logs to a mill and not expect payment? This world is about give and take. You have to wonder about the ones that only take. I wouldn't give them much once I've figured it out.


I get where u'r coming from, but I feel she's asked enough questions to give her the benefit of the doubt. Even if she is an iteration of gypo stirring the pot, I've enjoyed the thread greatly. 
NM is being extremely generous with his time and knowledge (as you are on technique threads), but just consider how amazingly insightful he could be if she'd add a Sasquatch angle to the story! Preferably in a Scooby-Doo format.


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## ArtB

_add a Sasquatch angle to the story_

See #40; grandson thinks he saw bigfoot down on Salmon Creek north of St. Helens. 
I'm sure grandson would be agreeable to an on camera interview about his sighting - for a fee knowing him


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## slowp

HuskStihl said:


> I get where u'r coming from, but I feel she's asked enough questions to give her the benefit of the doubt. Even if she is an iteration of gypo stirring the pot, I've enjoyed the thread greatly.
> NM is being extremely generous with his time and knowledge (as you are on technique threads), but just consider how amazingly insightful he could be if she'd add a Sasquatch angle to the story! Preferably in a Scooby-Doo format.



I think a grizzly or a lynx would be more appropriate. Those will be the two next "challenges" to add. Even though they promised years ago to not import grizzlies, the National Park Service has plans to do so in the North Cascades NP. The original plan was to provide habitat and hope the bears would move in but that wasn't happening fast enough for the NPS. A bear does migrate down once in a while and I suspect there are a few around but the egos in charge cannot believe that they cannot find them. The NPS also does not seem to realize that the bears most likely won't care where the park boundary is and might wander outside of the park. 

The lynx? The Canadian Lynx is a bobcat type kitty that likes to eat snowshoe hares. The usual suspects have tried to get it listed in the past. Logging causes roads which are used by snowmobiles which scare the kitties and bunnies. Now they claim all the wildfires have made things tougher. I'm not sure about that one. Snowshoe hares like to munch on tree seedlings and there ought to be scads of little lodgepole pine seedlings popping up in the burn areas of NE Warshington.


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## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> I was thinking the same thing, but then remembered Bob was an old man in 1973. I bet he's only dirty and loud at work tho!



Mind your manners, youngster. It took me a long time to get this old...and I'm not through with the process quite yet.


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## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Unless you're helping the enemy. You're a good straightforward guy Matt and you've taken a lot of time to put good info on here and I applaud you for that. I was not trying to belittle your efforts. I just don't like seeing good people exert lots of energy over other people or things that don't return the favor or feel the same way. "She" still as yet has revealed no plot. Most stories can be summed up in a paragraph or two. What are her motivations? Why would she take a picture of herself in front of a closet to post as her avatar picture ( kind of a dumb question but why use such a dumb picture)? You and others have given a lot. Where is her contribution? Where is a synopsis of the plot? Would you give logs to a mill and not expect payment? This world is about give and take. You have to wonder about the ones that only take. I wouldn't give them much once I've figured it out.



No worries mang.

I figure even if it is the enemy being friendly may make them think twice about bad mouthing loggers.

There was a chuck norris movie awhile ago.. it was horrible, he was some bs timber elf or some ****, the loggers where made out to be slobbering yocals with little or no morals or hygiene... that is what I hope to avoid


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## madhatte

Yer alright, ya weirdo.


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## Westboastfaller

"Tell me mister lumber Jack...
Is it one for forward and thee for back ?
is it two to stop or four to goooooo ?

YEAH BOY ! ask whistle punk...
I don't knooowww"


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## slowp

I think it is one for stop, two for getting it to the main corridor and three for full speed ahead, but then I get raise and lower mixed up because there was an argument on the landing about that and the two guys started blasting away on their talkie tooters and I didn't have earplugs and got that humming noise in my ears from the loudness of the whistle......3 shorts and two longs? Two shorts and three longs? I do not know, I do not care. Why don't you guys go over THERE?


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## northmanlogging

I started a thread about whistles awhile back... if memory serves theres 3-4 different forms of whistle signals, all depending on location or type of machine...

high lead vs north bend vs shot gun vs motorized carriage each one is a little different


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## Westboastfaller

northmanlogging said:


> I started a thread about whistles awhile back... if memory serves theres 3-4 different forms of whistle signals, all depending on location or type of machine...
> 
> high lead vs north bend vs shot gun vs motorized carriage each one is a little different


OK .. I'm about 50 mile off the Alaska pan falling for Chinese. It's dominantly Hemlock and Grand fir (White wood & Balsam) they need a solid log that you can't poke a key into on the cut for the export.
75% isn't good up in this 'country' here. They came up last night to fuel a machine and I said it's to bad that you don't have a market for the rest because some has a good collar of white wood that's clear lumber. Apparently they have a mill about 3 hours away and now says we can truck 'em. I'm guessing if it has a minimum of 6' collar then we cut to multiples of 8 & 10's. But if the trunk is 3 ft, is it worth it at a minimum collar?
I seem to know more than the contractor oddly enough, He must be more a 'Spruce & pine guy ' from the inside.


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## Backyard Lumberjack

ArthurB said:


> *It's also quite obviously a complete fabrication*And as others have suggested, this whole thread is at best BS



why would you say something like that? to agitate? I don't think his post is a complete fabrication... I do believe without a doubt... the family went on a camping trip, their trailer had a bearing freeze, weld up... and a friendly diesel mech... saved the day! not a doubt in my mind what his wife told their mom... is totally true! I believe it!...

and so should you! as you have no reason not to.

imo, deleting your post is only path to redemption...

fyi - u r already forgiven...


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## ArtB

+1 , totally true story, been there, been helped like that -- similar, but was in the Ozarks and a good ol' boy soldered up pop's radiator on the '57 ford, but he did let us pay for the 20 cents for the solder. Have even helped others similarily after I done grown up* ! Must be Aussie's are not of the helpful sort, eh ? 

sure do dislike agitators with the same first name and similar handle ? 

* I carried a spare fuel pump in my '71 Datsun pickup when I used to drive the back roads near St. Helens. Guy stopped on a steep uphill in a Datsun, no fuel. Put my pump into his truck. Asked him to send me my cost for the pump when he got home - 'arthur' musta been a transplanted aussie, never heard from him !


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