# 3-point logging winch info needed



## Urbicide

Hello.

I have decided that adding a 3-point logging winch to my L5030 Kubota would help make my life a bit easier. The four brands I have seen on line are Farmi, Fransgard, Norse, and Tajfun. No one locally carries any of them so I would have to have one trucked in. I have been trying to educate myself as to what brand to buy, or at the very least what to stay away from. Most of my property is pretty steep and it is rather uncomfortable operating a tractor on. My tractor is rated 42.5 hp at the pto and has a fel. Your experiences and suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Vince


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## John Ellison

Have you checked out Hud Son forest products? Some of their dealers have a couple of different tractor winches.


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## Esbjug

Urbicide said:


> The four brands I have seen on line are Farmi, Fransgard, Norse, and Tajfun.




Hello, some recommendations from Scandinavia: I would say no to Fransgard products. These are made in Denmark, with very little forest areas. My knowledge of Fransgard winches is that they are not to solid made. Stay away, but ok for light use.

Tajfun is from eastern Europe. Stay away.

Farmi (from Finland) and Norse (from Norway) make good products. Either will give you years of service. I think some of the Norse winches are made by Igland here in Norway, a very well renovated company (www.igland-as.com). If you can get a Igland in your state, buy one. For your tractor, a 3 or 3.5 tonne winch is ok. Igland also supply radio control as an option, and you can also control the revs of the tractor engine with this remote control.

I now have a 3.5 tonne Igland (model 3601) on a 45 hp tractor. An ok combination, but its not hard at all to turn over the tractor if not aware!
8 mm wire is the best option, but 9 mm can also be used. The larger wire is harder to handle.

Hans, Norway


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## woodfarmer

i use the farmi, excellent winch


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## tawilson

My tractor is a tad smaller than yours and I opted for the 551 Farmi. It's a stout piece of steel and can be used for scraping and filling in holes. It was my favorite implement, till I got my backhoe, partly because it was great weight and didn't stick out as far as a backblade.





And for a hoot, hook the cable up high and get the tree to rocking then give it a good tug and sometimes the whole thing will pull over. This is for smaller stuff in shallow soil of course. Here's one, the rest of the tree is still attached. Great for trail clearing, no stump to deal with.




Oh, have you checked out the "Farm Tractor in the Woodlot" thread?


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## John Ellison

When you land a log/s can you unhook and get the chains up and in the clear(so the tires wont back over them) by just dismounting the tractor one time? 
What is the process?


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## tawilson

John, if you are asking me about the skidding tongs hanging on the bucket, I can hookup, move and get unhooked from a log without getting off the tractor. I'm so lazy that I usually will cut down a tree, limb what I can easily get to, then do my bucket/tong trick to drag the tree out so I can easily finish limbing, then drag the tree to where I've dragged other trees so I don't have to drag the winch cable all over. Course I am usually dealing with smaller trees for firewood. An advantage of doing it this way is because the tree is held by the tongs I don't have to worry too much about it rolling whilst limbing.


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## John Ellison

No, I meant when you are using the winch and have a couple or so logs hooked. The pics that I have seen they were not skidding off the winch fairlead, but off the chain slots on the blade.
That looks like a good idea, the chain slots on your bucket.


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## tawilson

Ah. I usually use the lower slots on the winch. Usually lowering the winch and backing up gives enough slack to unhook the chains, but I always start the pto so I can give them a yank with the winch if I need to. I use that to get the chains free of the logs too, so yes I only have to get off the tractor once. I use the blade of the winch to push the logs to my pile then off to the woods again. 
I'm having shoulder surgery Tuesday. I'm hoping to get healed up enough to do some logging before winter is over.


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## John Ellison

Those winches look like a pretty neat set up. Hope the shoulder turns out OK.


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## ever green

I have a TN 75 wjth FEL and Farmi 501. I should have got the 601, more pulling power and heavier duty...Heres a few pics...


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## ever green

Winches work great for getting you out of trouble, pulled me right out...


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## tawilson

Oh yeah, I meant 501 instead of 551. Heh heh.


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## sawyerDave

*Fransgard winch*

I have, I think the smallest Fransgard winch. It is also about 20 years old, instead of a blade, it has 2 feet kinda like backhoe stabilizers that contact the ground when you are pulling. The one thing I learned quick is to have the tractor front end pointed square away from the direction you are pulling the log. I rolled a 16' 16" poplar log over the top of my pile at the top of a small hill, it landed about 30 feet down the hill. Pulled the winch, mounted on a grey market Kubota L2202 almost parallel to the log hooked up the winch and started to pull--the tractor over sideways! Luckily was able to stop and release the winch with no rollover. I learned my lesson, never gonna do that again! Now I know why I got that winch for free, cause the guy who gave it to me said he rolled his tractor twice with it!


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## Urbicide

ever green said:


> Winches work great for getting you out of trouble, pulled me right out...



That is a nice tractor you have. 75 hp? I like the larger front tires. I have R1s on my Bota and with a full, ain't-no-more-gonna-fit, load of wood on my pallet forks really puts a strain on the front tires. 

Talk about getting buried! It was a good thing you had that winch alright! How long did it take you to wash all of that mud off?


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## Urbicide

One thing that I have noticed is that Farmi does not include a safety screen with their winches. I guess that it is an extra cost option. Fransgard, Igland, Norse, Tajfun asd come with the screen. I was wondering if those screens would make it more difficult to manuver in tight places anyway. 
opcorn:


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## Husky137

Those safety screens aren't going to protect you from anything that is going to do you harm anyhow. I've has my Farmi for almost 5 years with no problems. I think the screen would be a nuisance.


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## computeruser

Tangentially related question:

I see that Farmi sells their 290 winch for the 17-30hp tractors. Forgive my ignorance, since I'm a suburban boy whose only tractor experience has been with a lawn tractor, but how much real-world skidding and pulling could be done with a tractor of that size? I'm thinking something like a JD790 or one of those 20-25hp Japanese used imports.


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## sawyerDave

*Little tractors can pull big loads*

But you have to be safe. The Kubota that I mentioned in the earlier post is only about 22 hp, but can pull twice its 1500 lbs, if you set it up right, and keep it upright! Not thinking about what you are doing causes more damage, than the actual doing of it.:jawdrop:


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## Urbicide

Do any of you guys use the self-releasing snatch blocks? There is one shown on the Norse demo video on Labonvile's web site.

Link to video: http://www.labonville.com/videos/v7.htm


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## John Haylow

I have had a Fransgard V4000 for about 5 years now and I have been very happy with it. I have it on a 40HP Kubota 4wd. It was recommended to me by two other fellows that own them and use them lots. As others have said try and keep your tractor in line while winching or you could easily roll it.
Good luck with your decision,
John


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## Husky137

Urbicide said:


> Do any of you guys use the self-releasing snatch blocks? There is one shown on the Norse demo video on Labonvile's web site.
> 
> Link to video: http://www.labonville.com/videos/v7.htm




I use it with my Farmi. A great time saver for redirects. A lot less walking back and forth. Well worth the expense.


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## John Haylow

I was wondering where you purchased yours and also the size and cost?
Thanks,
John


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## Husky137

John Haylow said:


> I was wondering where you purchased yours and also the size and cost?
> Thanks,
> John



I bought my snatch block from Labonville. I think it cost around $165.


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## hanniedog

The Paul Bunyan Festival is coming up in early Oct. You might be able to look at some winches there. Cambridge is a ways from Cincy but might be worth the trip. Tried to find a list of manufactures for the show but had no luck.


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## Sawin

computeruser said:


> Tangentially related question:
> 
> I see that Farmi sells their 290 winch for the 17-30hp tractors. Forgive my ignorance, since I'm a suburban boy whose only tractor experience has been with a lawn tractor, but how much real-world skidding and pulling could be done with a tractor of that size? I'm thinking something like a JD790 or one of those 20-25hp Japanese used imports.



A little late, but for what's it's worth......this is a pic of a JD790 with a sm. Fransgard winch. I had stopped on this rather steep slope to see how safe I was. I was just playing. Had no problems, as long as common sense was applied....

I saw no problems with the quality of the Fransgard winch. Would buy one again. Purchased the Farmi with my new tractor for "cost", so I'm told...

Anyway a sm tractor and winch, as you can see, can do a pretty good job for a homeowner. The lack of power when pulling can be frustrating at times. Lots of walking back and forth. It is not at all fast, but is fun 

I now have a 65 hp tractor with a Farmi, and there is no comparison...grunt...grunt....:chainsawguy:


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## tawilson

Speaking of protective screens, I decided it would behoove me to have one. So I made one that clamps to my rops. I was mainly worried about backing into a branch and breaking the rear window. The winch has put a few dents in it so I guess it's paid off.


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## Sawin

*Great minds must think alike...*

I also attached protection to rear of rops. Also made me a ruuf. Got tired of wearing a hard hat and wondering what was going to fall on me.

This tree falling on the roof was my fault. Just got too lax when lifting up high and didn't roll bucket forward. 

Pic. also shows front tractor weights mounted on winch for weight when needed. Tires also loaded.


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## John Ellison

This is an interesting thread to me, as I have just recently turned my team into pasture ornaments and am using (not mine) a 30 hp New Holland 4wd to take the pine saw logs out of 10 acres. No winch, but it suprises me what it will pull and the front end loader is a real labor/back saver.
I have no idea how they figure the pulling power of the winches, but looking at the specs even the smaller ones are impressive. I think the range is somewhere between 7000 and 12000 lbs. Does anyone have any winching stories about the big one that did'nt come out easy? Is it possible with some combinations that the winch can pull more than the tractor?


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## Al Smith

hanniedog said:


> The Paul Bunyan Festival is coming up in early Oct. You might be able to look at some winches there. Cambridge is a ways from Cincy but might be worth the trip. Tried to find a list of manufactures for the show but had no luck.


You can find just about anything made for logging/arborists work at the PBS.Anyone that hasn't attended and has an interest in this type stuff,it's well worth the trip.According to mapquest the trip from Cinci to Cambridge is about 3 hours ,which is about the same distance for me.


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## tawilson

John Ellison said:


> This is an interesting thread to me, as I have just recently turned my team into pasture ornaments and am using (not mine) a 30 hp New Holland 4wd to take the pine saw logs out of 10 acres. No winch, but it suprises me what it will pull and the front end loader is a real labor/back saver.
> I have no idea how they figure the pulling power of the winches, but looking at the specs even the smaller ones are impressive. I think the range is somewhere between 7000 and 12000 lbs. Does anyone have any winching stories about the big one that did'nt come out easy? Is it possible with some combinations that the winch can pull more than the tractor?



I had to drag some logs through a low wet spot last winter. I would stop before I got to it, let the winch loose, drive through, then drag the logs over to the other side. One time the chain on a log caught in one of the notches on the winch, so I barrelled into the wet area dragging it behind me. I got good and buried and finally got turned sideways and could move no more so I hooked the winch up in a tree. What I didn't know was the tierod was hung up on a stump. I ended up ripping the tie rod right off. Lucky I didn't rip the tractor in half. I've also bent my three point lift arms. Lot's of power there for sure.


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## Wismer

John Ellison said:


> Is it possible with some combinations that the winch can pull more than the tractor?



Absolutly. Assuming you have 100 feet of winch cable you can drive ahead 100 feet, lower the winch to the ground, pull the logs back to the tractor, drive ahead another 100, winch it back and so on and so forth. This can be done with a big winch and a small tractor. It's not very productive becaause of how slow the winch line speed is.


Craig


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## Ryan Willock

If you get more winch than your tractor can handle then you can and probably will tear the tractor up! For an L5030 a 10k winch would be the MAX that I would stick behind it! I've got a new holland TC40D that I use an Igland 4001 on which is a 8,800lbs pulling power winch and that is all I really want back there! You would be amazed at what that combo will pull though. A 36''x12' poplar log is no trouble to skid out on good ground and I have pulled 14's out that size. I've run the same winch on my Kubota M8200 and man you can really move some wood then! My M8200 is too much tractor for the winch at that point.


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## Ryan Willock

Almost forgot, I'm starting a 30mbf cut of white pine and poplar next week that I will be logging with the new holland and the winch. I'll try to post some pics.


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## Wismer

Ryan, I didn't mean some one should get an oversized winch i was just replying to whoever asked if it could be done. I would not recommend it either it's a waste of money and time, its just... possible..

sorry for the confusion




Craig


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## SWE#Kipp

Ryan are you logging again ?
if so good for you


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## Ryan Willock

Can't seem to help myself!LOL:monkey: Its a bad addiction! I'm doing predominatly urban logging now although I will still do some convintional logging.


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## Wismer

how bout those pics ryan


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## woodfarmer

case 5230 90 hp and farmi 501 winch, pullin' whole beech trees, 20-24" at the butt, logs 12-24' long


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## Wismer

Nice setup treefarmer


Craig


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## Ryan Willock

I can't get them to upload:bang:


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## Urbicide

I was looking at the differences between the Norse and the Farmi self-releasing snatch blocks. The Farmi is designed to be operated so that the open side of the pulley (the side with the release gate) is facing down towards the ground during pulls. The Norse, on the other hand, is designed to be operated with the open side facing up. The Farmi comes with a nylon strap attached to it to secure it to a tree. The Norse is set up for use with a choker chain although a nylon sling could be used with it also. The Farmi model is around $70 more than the Norse.

I noticed today that Hud Son has increased the price of the 501 Farmi by $300. The Norse 4500 is still the same price at Labonville (who knows how long?)

Any more opinions or experiences on 3-point logging winches? I have been pretty busy the past 6 weeks and seeing price increases as I am getting ready to buy is not making me a happy camper. 

Once again, thank you for your advice and comments.

Vince


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## rgrinnell

*matching pto HP to winch*



woodfarmer said:


> case 5230 90 hp and farmi 501 winch, pullin' whole beech trees, 20-24" at the butt, logs 12-24' long



Newbie here. I got a stronger tractor than needed and am finding high HP gearbox implements are much more expensive. But I am told to match the implement to the Pto Hp otherwise I will blow the implement gearbox. Above I see woodfarmers 90Hp tractor coupled to the JL501 which specs as Max. 60 HP. Question is where will I get into trouble if I cheap out and find a smaller [used] winch than my tractor will drive? I think the JL501 will winch anything I desire and the tractor has no issues hauling anything behind it. I have about 80 Pto Hp on a TK100 crawler. If I run at low rpm to reduce Hp then I presume my winch speeds will be super slow? Am running into same issues on Bush Hog type mower implements. 80Hp puts me into an entirely different category and cost. I don't see many used Farmi's as it is and I definitely haven't seen any JL60's in the West.
Please advise of any workarounds such as slip clutch shear pin solution? Is there such a thing as a gearbox reducer?
/Rick


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## northmanlogging

this is just dead reckoning advice, take it as is, but 90 hp winch is for 90 hp winching, If you don't plan on doing any 90hp winching it "should" be ok the trouble happens when you push a 60hp tool to 90h in other words be careful, also check the specs on machine size gear ratio's etc could be the only difference is wire size, bigger wire holds more weight, also pto power is largely dependent on pto speed, most newer tractors have 2-3 speeds on the pto 540, 1080, 2160rpms (roughly) the most power being in the 540 range, so a guy could half the power by running at the 1080 setting and just running the tractor at an idle good luck


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## rgrinnell

I considered trying to run a 540 rpm implement at 1000 rpm but was advised against it cuz the implement is designed to rotate at certain speeds. 1000 rpm implements have a different gear ratio inside them. I am a novice so felt I should comply. Changing pto speed on my tractor also involves unbolting and (buying and) changing pto gears and shaft so could be a hassle if swapping between implements frequently. But in the case of the winch it seems there are already slip clutches built in to solve overstress between the cable and the winch, so overdriving the gearbox might not be an issue? Then again, there is likely a reason why they advertise a max 60 Hp . 
I guess I should just be happy I have enough power to drive a JL601 or similar and just need to find one affordable enough and spend the $$$. I guess it could pay for itself in ~35 cords?


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## NHMike

I have a small kubota tractor that I set up with a Farmi JL290 winch (smallest one they make ). I have been amazed at what it will pull considering how small my tractor is. I don't think you will be disappointed with the JL501. It has a rated pulling of over 11,000 LBS. My 290is rated at 6,600 LBS.
One bit of advice,...go slow and careful when pulling your first logs. You can get in a heap of trouble real fast. You will understand this when you start pulling in logs. I also highly reccomend getting a Snatch Block set up....preferably a self release one, but they are $$$ but they are so worth it


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## bkc

OP ..... I have been using my new winch for about three months now, all I can sayis wow.
I dont know how I got along without one. HUGE time saver, no reason to leave logging road/trail. Just position yourself to get a straight pull, and bring in the log.

My set up consists on a Wallenstein FX90, a Mahindra 5500 4wd around 55hp.
I was set on getting a Farmi 501, but the local dealer gave me the runaround. I stumbled on the wallenstein at a different dealer and could not be happier.
The farmi was about $5000 out the door, The FX90 was $4000 out the door with three choker chains.
The FX90 also comes with the screen standard, and YES its nice to have. Sometimes I will winch from the tractor seat and you are right in the line of fire if that cable breaks. The screen is built stout enough that I feel safe behind it.

As far as snatch blocks go, I use a cheap 10,000lb to get around obstacles and it works fine. I have built my first prototype self releasing snatch block and sofar its woorking good. Like most things I have built it "over built" .......very heavy.
The self release are nice because they do save a trip to the obstacal, to un hook a regular snatch block so you can finish your pull. But after the log has cleared the obstacle and is at the tractor you still have to go get the self release off the tree. 

I can get some pics tomarrow, I just brought tractor home today.

Hope some of this rambling was some help, any specific questions let me know.

Brian


Edit.... specs the 

FX90 9000lbs pull 30-80 pto hp weighs in at 800lbs

Farmi 501 11000lbs pull 35- pto hp 630lbs


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## bkc

*pics*

View attachment 253207

View attachment 253208

View attachment 253209


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## KiwiBro

I am currently trying to figure out how incorporate an extension to the top pulley on my tractor winch, so it could be used as a psuedo highlead system from wherever the tractor could get to (and has suitable anchor points). No longer being restricted to where suitable trees are for mounting blocks to get the lift needed.

Also, what are you tractor winch people using, if you don't have a second drum, to haul back the cable to the choker rat? I've got a windscreen wiper motor and am thinking of mating it to a geared fencing tape spool and hanging it and a battery off a warratah stake so it can be easily moved around. It doesn't get much load on it, but I don't know if it will handle enough load. No way can I afford a CS or portable capstan winch.


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## woodfarmer

rgrinnell said:


> Newbie here. I got a stronger tractor than needed and am finding high HP gearbox implements are much more expensive. But I am told to match the implement to the Pto Hp otherwise I will blow the implement gearbox. Above I see woodfarmers 90Hp tractor coupled to the JL501 which specs as Max. 60 HP. Question is where will I get into trouble if I cheap out and find a smaller [used] winch than my tractor will drive? I think the JL501 will winch anything I desire and the tractor has no issues hauling anything behind it. I have about 80 Pto Hp on a TK100 crawler. If I run at low rpm to reduce Hp then I presume my winch speeds will be super slow? Am running into same issues on Bush Hog type mower implements. 80Hp puts me into an entirely different category and cost. I don't see many used Farmi's as it is and I definitely haven't seen any JL60's in the West.
> Please advise of any workarounds such as slip clutch shear pin solution? Is there such a thing as a gearbox reducer?
> /Rick


I originally had this on an 80 hp tractor, still overrated for the winch specs, however I have had the winch for 12 years, pulled some very heavy hitches and never had a problem


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## timbrjackrussel

*Norse 400 for sale*

I have one of these on a 40 hp tractor. I found another one for sale.
Treuil forestier norse 400 - Laval / North Shore Farming Equipment For Sale - Kijiji Laval / North Shore Canada.


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## Dill

I've been toying with buying a winch for a few years now. However this summer I bought a much larger farm. And I have a couple sugarbushes that I need to remove non maples from. So I think I'm finally ready to drop the hammer. Does anyone have any recommendations between a Fransgard V4000 and a Norse 350? The price is 50 dollars different between Labonville for the Norse and one of my local dealers for the Fransgard. I'm wondering how well the hinged plate of the Norse works in the real world. My woodlot was logged about 5 years ago and there are some skidder holes left, I was thinking the extra clearance would help, but would this be an issue at all if the 3point hitch is raised? I havent been able to find a farmi dealer around here, but I assume they are a bit more money? Pretty sure I'm giving up on finding a screaming deal on a used winch they just don't seem to exist.


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## Hermio

Some folks here seem confused about the relationship between power and torque. Torque = Power/rpm. It is torque that breaks things, not power. So, running the PTO slower by reducing engine rpm will slow winch line speed, but it may not reduce torque, depending on the engine torque curve. Using a lower PTO speed at the same engine rpm will increase torque. I was unaware that winches had gearboxes. Most I have seen used hydraulic or chain drive. Normally, the cable will break before any of the drive train components will.


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## DanTheCanadian

Did u really dredge up a 3 year old thread just to state that people are wrong? Your first post also. I smell a troll


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## agvg

Ground clearance is a problem and the hinged plate can save you from the fun of getting stuck on the winch, Norse/Igland is considered a more heavy duty line of winches than Fransgaard, at least in a historical pers


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## Dieselbreath

Urbicide said:


> Hello.
> 
> I have decided that adding a 3-point logging winch to my L5030 Kubota would help make my life a bit easier. The four brands I have seen on line are Farmi, Fransgard, Norse, and Tajfun. No one locally carries any of them so I would have to have one trucked in. I have been trying to educate myself as to what brand to buy, or at the very least what to stay away from. Most of my property is pretty steep and it is rather uncomfortable operating a tractor on. My tractor is rated 42.5 hp at the pto and has a fel. Your experiences and suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I have a Farmi winch on a Kubota L4150 4wd. I've used it for over 20 years now, no problems. I only wish I had bought the next larger model. (trees get bigger) Don't bother with a self releasing snatch block. You can always get one of those if you find you might need one. A regular snatch block is handy, thought. And if you can afford it, buy the remote control, saves a lot of walking back & forth.


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## Hermio

DanTheCanadian said:


> Did u really dredge up a 3 year old thread just to state that people are wrong? Your first post also. I smell a troll


Not a troll, but one who realizes that many people do not understand the relationship between power, speed and torque.


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