# Let's be real here; fundamentals= safe



## Burvol (Nov 18, 2009)

As I hunt and peck this with one hand, I would like to share my 2 cents on safety and production in terms of log cutting. At 8:30 this morning I was cutting in a nice strip of slick big pine, more or less as far west as you'll see it here, really nice wood growing smack dab in the middle of a gorgeous stand of fir. I came to a heavy leaner that needed to be worked on from the left shoulder to the tree. I decided to strap it to prevent stump pull. I faced it, then instead of flipping my saw over like I should have, I began to bore in my strap backbar; JUST ASKING for it like that. Yes, i have done it a million times and it is jumpy. This time I hit a hard knot in the butt and the saw jumped out fast, so fast I just remember putting my hand up to keep it off my torso. I got cut all the way down my pinky from nail to back of hand, and around to the bottom, left with a bonless, skinless strip of meat. LOL Hungry? I just got home from the ER and took a friggin pile of stitches in my hand and tendon. Finger looks hideuos. Also cut my bone, got a fracture to boot.

Just wanted to say be safe and stick to what works. I KNOW BETTER. Flip my saw around and hot bar in, probably would not have happened. be careful all you bore cut freaks, most times it is totally unessacery. I have never claimed to be God's gift to log cutters, but I am a safe and productive timber faller. We deal with kickbacks and stuff like that all the time. The average AS'er does not. Who ever tells you to bore cut everything should be slapped. You're asking for it. There ARE times for it, but be wise about your choices.

Also, if you are going to get cut...sharp full comp square is probably gonna make your surgeon the cleanest meat to put back together


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## bitzer (Nov 18, 2009)

Wow that sucks! I don't even know how bad that sucks! Do you mean you were plunging with the top of the bar by backbar? I'm not production, but I cut a lot of hardwood, doing a lot of land clearing and more often than not cutting dead and hazard trees. I only bore when I have to and I've had em snap back out on me on several occasions. Never had an injury worth a hospital trip, but I'm also not out there day in day out like you production boys. I spend maybe a cumulative four months out of the year felling and cutting up. I've had some close ones and its always been when letting my guard down. Glad you are ok for the most part. I just read in someones post that you are on top of your game and know what the hell your talking about. I guess it goes to show you that Sh$t happens and it will.


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## Saw Bones (Nov 18, 2009)

Burvol said:


> As I hunt and peck this with one hand, I would like to share my 2 cents on safety and production in terms of log cutting. At 8:30 this morning I was cutting in a nice strip of slick big pine, more or less as far west as you'll see it here, really nice wood growing smack dab in the middle of a gorgeous stand of fir. I came to a heavy leaner that needed to be worked on from the left shoulder to the tree. I decided to strap it to prevent stump pull. I faced it, then instead of flipping my saw over like I should have, I began to bore in my strap backbar; JUST ASKING for it like that. Yes, i have done it a million times and it is jumpy. This time I hit a hard knot in the butt and the saw jumped out fast, so fast I just remember putting my hand up to keep it off my torso. I got cut all the way down my pinky from nail to back of hand, and around to the bottom, left with a bonless, skinless strip of meat. LOL Hungry? I just got home from the ER and took a friggin pile of stitches in my hand and tendon. Finger looks hideuos. Also cut my bone, got a fracture to boot.
> 
> Just wanted to say be safe and stick to what works. I KNOW BETTER. Flip my saw around and hot bar in, probably would not have happened. be careful all you bore cut freaks, most times it is totally unessacery. I have never claimed to be God's gift to log cutters, but I am a safe and productive timber faller. We deal with kickbacks and stuff like that all the time. The average AS'er does not. Who ever tells you to bore cut everything should be slapped. You're asking for it. There ARE times for it, but be wise about your choices.
> 
> Also, if you are going to get cut...sharp full comp square is probably gonna make your surgeon the cleanest meat to put back together



Wow. Thanks for sharing. Hope you are back at it soon. 
Things happen quick.


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## Greystoke (Nov 18, 2009)

Sorry to hear that man. Hopefully it wont be too long before you are back at it. Unfortunately just another timber faller wound that will haunt you later in life. It is amazing how fast something like that can happen! Thanks for sharing and good luck on your recovery!


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## Gologit (Nov 18, 2009)

Good lesson....glad you didn't get hurt any worse. What did your Dad have to say?


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## Meadow Beaver (Nov 18, 2009)

Yikes thankfully you weren't hurt worse, hopefully you make a full & fast recovery.


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## Meadow Beaver (Nov 18, 2009)

Burvol said:


> As I hunt and peck this with one hand, I would like to share my 2 cents on safety and production in terms of log cutting. At 8:30 this morning I was cutting in a nice strip of slick big pine, more or less as far west as you'll see it here, really nice wood growing smack dab in the middle of a gorgeous stand of fir. I came to a heavy leaner that needed to be worked on from the left shoulder to the tree. I decided to strap it to prevent stump pull. I faced it, then instead of flipping my saw over like I should have, I began to bore in my strap backbar; JUST ASKING for it like that. Yes, i have done it a million times and it is jumpy. This time I hit a hard knot in the butt and the saw jumped out fast, so fast I just remember putting my hand up to keep it off my torso. I got cut all the way down my pinky from nail to back of hand, and around to the bottom, left with a bonless, skinless strip of meat. LOL Hungry? I just got home from the ER and took a friggin pile of stitches in my hand and tendon. Finger looks hideuos. Also cut my bone, got a fracture to boot.
> 
> Just wanted to say be safe and stick to what works. I KNOW BETTER. Flip my saw around and hot bar in, probably would not have happened. be careful all you bore cut freaks, most times it is totally unessacery. I have never claimed to be God's gift to log cutters, but I am a safe and productive timber faller. We deal with kickbacks and stuff like that all the time. The average AS'er does not. Who ever tells you to bore cut everything should be slapped. You're asking for it. There ARE times for it, but be wise about your choices.
> 
> Also, if you are going to get cut...*sharp full comp square* is probably gonna make your surgeon the cleanest meat to put back together



It must be Stihl square full comp if it's sharp. Luckily you weren't using Orygun chain.


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## slowp (Nov 18, 2009)

Wow. Glad you are all in one piece! Don't chew on yer stiches or you'll have to wear one of those collar things. Heal up quickly, and I sure appreciate your hints. I'll let the saw gurus know about square file chain and chainsaw cuts.


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## Jacob J. (Nov 18, 2009)

Wow man, I'm sorry to hear about this. What a bad day! I hope it heals fast and doesn't leave you too bunged up. 

Yeah lengthwise cuts are clean with square ground chain, crosscuts in flesh are hamburger no matter what kind of chain is used. I've got a hamburger scar across my right bicep as proof.


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## Burvol (Nov 18, 2009)

Gologit said:


> Good lesson....glad you didn't get hurt any worse. What did your Dad have to say?



You know what he said Bob? Quick ####in' around and make stumps. You 2 would get along great, I know it. That's why you buy those damn hopped up saws he says, to rip em' off the stump. I said, yes. 

A raised backcut and a small scarf will almost achieve the same thing. I love that technique in big wood. When you flush your butt, all you have to do is cut off the tab it makes, and the scarf is gone too. Seems pretty reasonable to me. Plus, you have better control and wood usually comes out of the stump.


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## Burvol (Nov 18, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> Wow man, I'm sorry to hear about this. What a bad day! I hope it heals fast and doesn't leave you too bunged up.
> 
> Yeah lengthwise cuts are clean with square ground chain, crosscuts in flesh are hamburger no matter what kind of chain is used. I've got a hamburger scar across my right bicep as proof.



How did you do that? That's another not so common area to cut. That chain was Stihl chain actually, and had one tree on it, sharp as hell.


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## logging22 (Nov 18, 2009)

Sorry to hear it. Speedy recovery and good luck.


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## fmaglin (Nov 18, 2009)

Burvol said:


> As I hunt and peck this with one hand, I would like to share my 2 cents on safety and production in terms of log cutting. At 8:30 this morning I was cutting in a nice strip of slick big pine, more or less as far west as you'll see it here, really nice wood growing smack dab in the middle of a gorgeous stand of fir. I came to a heavy leaner that needed to be worked on from the left shoulder to the tree. I decided to strap it to prevent stump pull. I faced it, then instead of flipping my saw over like I should have, I began to bore in my strap backbar; JUST ASKING for it like that. Yes, i have done it a million times and it is jumpy. This time I hit a hard knot in the butt and the saw jumped out fast, so fast I just remember putting my hand up to keep it off my torso. I got cut all the way down my pinky from nail to back of hand, and around to the bottom, left with a bonless, skinless strip of meat. LOL Hungry? I just got home from the ER and took a friggin pile of stitches in my hand and tendon. Finger looks hideuos. Also cut my bone, got a fracture to boot.
> 
> Just wanted to say be safe and stick to what works. I KNOW BETTER. Flip my saw around and hot bar in, probably would not have happened. be careful all you bore cut freaks, most times it is totally unessacery. I have never claimed to be God's gift to log cutters, but I am a safe and productive timber faller. We deal with kickbacks and stuff like that all the time. The average AS'er does not. Who ever tells you to bore cut everything should be slapped. You're asking for it. There ARE times for it, but be wise about your choices.
> 
> Also, if you are going to get cut...sharp full comp square is probably gonna make your surgeon the cleanest meat to put back together



Real sorry to hear about your unfortunate mishap. Thanks for sharing the details with us. If anything it is a reminder to to the rest of us to be more cautious no matter what level of expertise we have. Only takes a fraction of a second for real bad #### to happen! As for myself...it seems like bad things usually happen to me whenever I get in a hurry.


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## Burvol (Nov 18, 2009)

Thanks for all the kind thoughts. Seriously. I appreciate it.


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## forestryworks (Nov 18, 2009)

ouch. speedy recovery to ya man.

and great post as well.


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## Wishie22 (Nov 18, 2009)

Thanks for sharing. Hope your injury heals good and fast.


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## coastalfaller (Nov 18, 2009)

Hope you get well quick. Those things happen so fast. I cut my finger once too. My glove went red instantly! Almost made me throw up! I didn't want to look. It ended up being not so bad, I was lucky. It's great of you to share what happened, hopefully it will help others. Take care.


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## Gologit (Nov 19, 2009)

Burvol said:


> You know what he said Bob? Quick ####in' around and make stumps. You 2 would get along great, I know it. That's why you buy those damn hopped up saws he says, to rip em' off the stump. I said, yes.



LOL...When in doubt, just read my PM again.


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## 056 kid (Nov 19, 2009)

That is rather unfortunate.

You will be back at it in no time!


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## John Ellison (Nov 19, 2009)

Thats a lot to go thru to go steelhead fishing. Get well quick.


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## slowp (Nov 19, 2009)

John Ellison said:


> Thats a lot to go thru to go steelhead fishing. Get well quick.



Well, it could be worse, he doesn't have to tie flies! Says one who seems to tweaked a wrist, but doesn't know how. How many days till stitch removal? 10?


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## Cedarkerf (Nov 19, 2009)

Heal up man glad it wasnt worse. You should be able to fish all right.


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## Burvol (Nov 19, 2009)

You guys crack me up. You know how avid I am about the fin wars I run around here, lol. 

10 days maybe two weeks they said on the stitches.


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## Meadow Beaver (Nov 19, 2009)

10 days-2 weeks isn't too bad, you might be back to work before me.


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## hammerlogging (Nov 19, 2009)

Burvol said:


> I have never claimed to be God's gift to log cutters



I doubt anyone is the single best faller, but anyone who lasts in the big leagues is excels at their trade, everyone is going to have their own way to dance, each dance has its merits, and its faults. 

Sorry about the injury. I'm glad it wasn't worse. I wish my best to you.


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## Cedarkerf (Nov 19, 2009)

Your punishment shall be you have to show up at the next PNW GTG to show off your scar.


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## slowp (Nov 19, 2009)

Cedarkerf said:


> Your punishment shall be you have to show up at the next PNW GTG to show off your scar.



And it isn't in a bad place to show off. I think your story is not as nerve-gut wrenching as the hooktender's tale of how he lost his fingers and parts of fingers. I asked him to please stop telling but he didn't and it was a tummy churning story. It literally made me have that shocky feeling. Your story is much better. 

Chewing stitches yet? If so, put some bitter apple spray or Happy Jack wormer on it.  I like to tease.


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## tramp bushler (Nov 19, 2009)

That makes me sick for you ..... Thats bad ... Your right you knew better , most of us do just before we do something like that ..... Man , I really feel bad for you .. The only time I,ve got cut was from a kick back ..... But with me it was because IU didn,t have my thumb wrapped around the front handle bar , it was laying on the wrap so I could push better :bang:. You should post some pics of your hand , and the lack of $$$$$ coming in ...... My wife and I will be praying for you for a fast strong recovery .....


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## tramp bushler (Nov 19, 2009)

I make alot of bore cuts , but they are for checking the quality of the log , or where the cull ends , Most of the time they arn,t needed for falling ...


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## Burvol (Nov 19, 2009)

tramp bushler said:


> I make alot of bore cuts , but they are for checking the quality of the log , or where the cull ends , Most of the time they arn,t needed for falling ...



Exactly, they are not needed. The strap cut is about the only time I use it on a stump. The upper quadrant of your tip is where the kickback is the most probable. That is where I knew better. Saw jumped out fast at my torso, and I don't know why or how, but my hand went up to try for the power head after it slipped on the kickback and got my hand. It felt hot and I then looked down and saw the bone through my glove. I approached my Dad and told him I was hurt. I told him where my first aid kit was in my rigging sack and what dressing I wanted on it. I asked if he wanted a good look at it, and he declined, saying not too look to prevent shock. I told him I already saw enough and I was ready to leave. He packed me out and I drove myself, bleeding and wound secured just fine. Could have been a hell of a lot worse. 

Thank you for your prayers, Mr.Tramp.


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## Burvol (Nov 19, 2009)

Cedarkerf said:


> Your punishment shall be you have to show up at the next PNW GTG to show off your scar.



Brian, I am not missing the next one for anything!!!


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## Cedarkerf (Nov 19, 2009)

Cool weve been wanting to meet you in person.


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## Meadow Beaver (Nov 19, 2009)

I'd go if I had a reason to live out there.


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## Cedarkerf (Nov 19, 2009)

Because its purdy with mild weather except it rains 5 inches of rain everyday.


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## slowp (Nov 19, 2009)

And we get to watch the Seattle news people look grim and tell us about the weather. 

Now, is the get together really being planned in the city of IKEA and no sales tax? :biggrinbounce2:


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## Meadow Beaver (Nov 19, 2009)

Cedarkerf said:


> Because its purdy with mild weather except it rains 5 inches of rain everyday.



Oh I would now if I could, I fell in love with the PNW when I went there on vacation. One day, I liked Forks and Hoquiam, I also liked SW Orygun.


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## slowp (Nov 20, 2009)

MMFaller39 said:


> Oh I would now if I could, I fell in love with the PNW when I went there on vacation. One day, I liked Forks and Hoquiam, I also liked SW Orygun.



Now is the best time to visit...weatherwise. Bring a dehumidifier and a box of Damp-rid. :biggrinbounce2:

If you can drive to the overlooks, there's usually a sign with arrows pointing to where you could see the view if it was clear.


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## Burvol (Nov 20, 2009)

slowp said:


> Now is the best time to visit...weatherwise. Bring a dehumidifier and a box of Damp-rid. :biggrinbounce2:
> 
> If you can drive to the overlooks, there's usually a sign with arrows pointing to where you could see the view if it was clear.



Best place in the world to live. I think I'd go back to drinking (I know I would) if I ever had to leave OR/WA. No salmon, no elk, no huckleberries? What would a PNWer do?


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## floyd (Nov 20, 2009)

Quit lying to these folks . Only a fool would live in the PNW. Much better wherever you are currently located.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Nov 20, 2009)

sounds like you were really cool under pressure, Thank you for sharing and reminding us how easy it is to get comfortable.


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## Meadow Beaver (Nov 20, 2009)

slowp said:


> Now is the best time to visit...weatherwise. Bring a dehumidifier and a box of Damp-rid. :biggrinbounce2:
> 
> If you can drive to the overlooks, there's usually a sign with arrows pointing to where you could see the view if it was clear.



Yeah I come out there soon enough, but once I do I'm not movin' back East. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Cedarkerf (Nov 20, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Best place in the world to live. I think I'd go back to drinking (I know I would) if I ever had to leave OR/WA. No salmon, no elk, no huckleberries? What would a PNWer do?


I moved to Indiana for 3 years it was miserable fortunately I flew home about 50 times in 3 years. While I was there an outdoor store was excited about new topographical maps of a big state park. The park had an elevation change of 300 feet so that made about eight lines just cracked me up comparing it to a PNW map.


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## tramp bushler (Nov 20, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Best place in the world to live. I think I'd go back to drinking (I know I would) if I ever had to leave OR/WA. No salmon, no elk, no huckleberries? What would a PNWer do?


.



. Southeast .,., Got the good stuff with out the crowds .. Course you need to pack a pistol walking in and out of your strip .As we have BIG punks in Brown Fur Coats ......... But we also have King Crab .. And real Halibut . ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect. you get the idea.


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## slowp (Nov 20, 2009)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> . Southeast .,., Got the good stuff with out the crowds .. Course you need to pack a pistol walking in and out of your strip .As we have BIG punks in Brown Fur Coats ......... But we also have King Crab .. And real Halibut . ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect. you get the idea.



Yes, way better than here. Way.

I whacked down a ceremonial small leaning in the road hemlock in Burvol's honor. I'm sure it will send good healing vibes or whatever. It sure got needles down my back! A chilly, wet afternoon with a lot of drive by deer hunters. 

Here's a picture I took of a PNW air freshener. I learned of this style from a hooktender who was trying to improve the atmosphere of a crummie in the winter. It does work but sure sways and bangs around on our wonderful woods roads.


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## Greystoke (Nov 21, 2009)

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> . Southeast .,., Got the good stuff with out the crowds .. Course you need to pack a pistol walking in and out of your strip .As we have BIG punks in Brown Fur Coats ......... But we also have King Crab .. And real Halibut . ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect.ect. you get the idea.



:agree2: I really miss Southeast a lot! I don't miss thirteen feet of rain a year though.


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## Mikecutstrees (Nov 22, 2009)

Glad your ok, heal up soon!.... Mike


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## 2dogs (Nov 23, 2009)

Sorry to be so late here but my feelings are the same. Heal up quick and get back to work. And fishing. Prayers out.


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## oldirty (Nov 23, 2009)

B! what up man?! 

damn i hate when them dogs bite. hurts the pride when you sitting on the couch in a world of pain looking at the wound.....dont you worry though man. that pain will go away but not the lesson we learn. we gotta respect that saw.


thanks for sharing and i hope for nothing but a speedy recovery. keep your head up, you still a helluva faller from the pnw. just got a new story to tell is all.

stay safe.


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## Burvol (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks guys, appreciate all the thoughts and prayers. Going back tommorrow to bullbuck the cutters and line out the next set of strips. Might grab the saw the for a bit and see how it feels.


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## treemandan (Nov 23, 2009)

Oh ####! gruesome. Glad you are Ok. ####. But let me get this straight: You were backcutting a low hinge with the top of the bar? Were you kneeling or bent over at the waist?


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## Burvol (Nov 23, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Oh ####! gruesome. Glad you are Ok. ####. But let me get this straight: You were backcutting a low hinge with the top of the bar? Were you kneeling or bent over at the waist?



One knee on the ground, basically got out of the way from it coming into my torso. I realize these machines are sharp and made to cut. They demand respect. 

Timber fallers play mind games with themselves all day long, in their heads. Production, speed, quality, safety, ect. Make damn sure you got your marbles straight and stay focused on the job, that's what I'll say about that.


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## coastalfaller (Nov 23, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Timber fallers play mind games with themselves all day long, in their heads. Production, speed, quality, safety, ect. Make damn sure you got your marbles straight and stay focused on the job, that's what I'll say about that.



Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## treemandan (Nov 23, 2009)

Burvol said:


> One knee on the ground, basically got out of the way from it coming into my torso. I realize these machines are sharp and made to cut. They demand respect.
> 
> Timber fallers play mind games with themselves all day long, in their heads. Production, speed, quality, safety, ect. Make damn sure you got your marbles straight and stay focused on the job, that's what I'll say about that.



Did it shoot straight out of the kerf or swing around if you know what I mean? I sometimes make a easy backcut on small trees with a small saw using the top of the bar but in all essence once I start a kerf like that my hand goes to the top handle where it holds on for dear life. I see many guys just hold the side of the handle.
It seems you are taking it well for as nasty as it sounds. Don't go ripping them stitches out now. Take your time with them cut tendons.


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## Metals406 (Nov 24, 2009)

Jeesh Burvol, just saw this. . . Glad you're okay brother. Heal up, and make some falling videos for us to drool over.


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## 056 kid (Nov 24, 2009)

Burvol said:


> One knee on the ground, basically got out of the way from it coming into my torso. I realize these machines are sharp and made to cut. They demand respect.
> 
> Timber fallers play mind games with themselves all day long, in their heads. Production, speed, quality, safety, ect. Make damn sure you got your marbles straight and stay focused on the job, that's what I'll say about that.



Mind games, WHO said that??? Whoes there????


ims still waiting to hear about your rigging techniques. . .


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## GASoline71 (Nov 24, 2009)

Gawdamm Burvy ol' buddy... sorry to hear about it. I gots a scar on my right pinky and 3 on my knee from doin' pretty much the same dang thing. Borin' in where I really didn't need to. These GOL pushers and some of the cats on here that think it's "safer" are clueless to bore cut every single tree.

My pinky finger gets all stiff when it's cold and the scar actually keeps me from straigtening my finger all the way... Not nearly cut as bad as yours... but nonethe less... I still feel it to this day, and that was almost 10 years ago when it happened.

Heal up fast my friend... I can't pray for you because the earth would tilt on its axis and cause a freakish Ice Age or somethin'... but you"ll be in my thoughts when I murder 3 Douggies next week... 

Gary


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## forestryworks (Nov 24, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> I can't pray for you because the earth would tilt on its axis and cause a freakish Ice Age or somethin'... but you"ll be in my thoughts when I murder 3 Douggies next week...
> 
> Gary



pretty funny


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## tramp bushler (Nov 26, 2009)

I seriously hope you didn,t grab a saw today !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That won,t help a bit ..... It would like getting a brand new Hot rodded 3120 with a new 48" Cannon bar .. And hoggin it in where the face cut should be on a real spooky 20" hemlock snag until your hung ..... All you stand to do is LOOSE ...... 
Don,t be a STUPE ! If you had inside parts sticking out of your glove last week , short of a miracle from God you are weeks away from picking up a saw .....Whats wrong with bull buckin ..... I love cuttin probably as much as anyone , but there is a time for everything , your time right now is to heal up ... If I was cuttin on your crew I would chew your ass if I saw you pick up a power saw right now ...:deadhorse::deadhorse:


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## joesawer (Nov 26, 2009)

I thought about this thread yesterday when I had a leaner to cut.
It was about 26" hickory that had been blown over against another tree about 14 years ago in hurricane Opel. It had continued to grow and the roots had reattached well enough to hold itself up when I cut the prop tree out from under it. But it stood at a 30 degree angle, maybe more.
I thought about cutting it up and leaving a strap to trip it with. But it does not have a whole lot of room to work with. (Hmmm maybe that is why they make those goofy face cuts in the sap wood.) I sure didn't want to get hurt and I couldn't loose the tree because it was a tight squeeze between a fence and a shop building.
I remembered what Bob said about the reason for a hopped up saw. 
Then I did what I knew to do. I faced it deep and wide. then cut the off side behind the hinge then my side leaving wood for the hinge and a narrow piece holding all the way to the back, so that if you could see the wood left on the stump it would resemble a T with the top as the hinge. Then ripped it up to the hinge and stepped away. 
No fuss no muss. 
The whole thought process was just a few seconds while I was sizing up the tree. The back cut was quick and smooth and had no bore cuts.


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## tramp bushler (Nov 26, 2009)

Sounds good Joe .... Did it hit the lay right ??


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## joesawer (Nov 26, 2009)

tramp bushler said:


> Sounds good Joe .... Did it hit the lay right ??



Well yeah, I wouldn't be telling about it if it didn't! Lol


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## tramp bushler (Nov 26, 2009)




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