# Dolmar 5100 Cylinder Problem



## schroedogg (Feb 12, 2009)

I purchased one of those "screaming" Dolmar 5100's last summer after reading all the glowing reviews here and was really enjoying cutting with it - came from using an old Stihl 032 that's 30 years old but still running (even though it's starting to fall apart). I've actually only run about 5 - 10 tanks of gas through the Dolmar and last time I took it out, it just stopped running and wouldn't start again for anything. It acted like compression was lost (pulling the cord didn't have nearly as much resistance as it used to).

So I took it back to the dealer (they're great, by the way) and I can't remember the exact words he used but something to the effect of the cylinder had been scratched or etched or something like that (not cracked, though). They are going to have to replace the cylinder! He said this is the 2nd 5100 he's seen with this problem. He first thought it was because I was using lower octane gas and apologized for not educating their customers better but I'd read the manual and was using 91 octane (highest we can get around here) and the synthetic oil that he sold and said was a high quality. So he then concluded that perhaps they didn't get the cylinder cleaned out entirely when assembling but still looked a little troubled.

They're taking care of it for me but my question here is: was this most likely a fuel problem? It may be that the 91 octane I got was from a fuel pump that had 1 hose and so I was getting some 87 or 89 octane before the hose cleared. If that's the case, can that really ruin the cylinder?? I'm starting to wonder if I made a bad decision on the 5100. The stihl I was using had lasted 30 years and it didn't seem to matter what was put in it. But after light use of this Dolmar for 6 months it's already got a bad cylinder !!?? Is there anything else I can do when I get the saw back to avoid this problem happening again? I don't think the quality of our gas is that great around here and ethanol (which I avoid) seems to continue gaining market share. Or is it possible that it was just not assembled very well? If so, that sort of lowers my confidence in Dolmar -- what else wasn't assembled well that I'm going to find after the 1 year warranty runs out?


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## blsnelling (Feb 12, 2009)

More than likely the saw was set too lean from the factory for your cutting conditions. Seems to be a somewhat common problem with this model. The best advice I could give would be to get the limiting caps off of the carb and richen it up a little.


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## timberwolf (Feb 12, 2009)

Dolmars do run a little more compression than some others, but I doubt fuel octane was the cause of the problem. Scored cylinders tend to have more to do with improper carb settings, air leaks or lack of oil.

What is your oil mix?


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## schroedogg (Feb 12, 2009)

_be to get the limiting caps off of the carb and richen it up a little. _

Is this something I can ask the dealer to do after they get the cylinder fixed?

_What is your oil mix? _

I believe it was 40:1, which was specified on the bottle. Also, the mix was no more than a month old. I usually only mix a gallon or so at a time and had mixed this sometime after the first of the year.


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder--- even the one I own that ran of 100ll av gas--pieces of crap in my opinion and dolmar would not even honer the warrantys!!!!


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## timberwolf (Feb 12, 2009)

Dealers most times won't touch the limiter caps. EPA reasons.

IF you know your oil was good and mix was good, i'd be suspect that either the carb was set too lean (most likely)or it has an air leak.


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## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder--- even the one I own that ran of 100ll av gas--pieces of crap in my opinion and dolmar would not even honer the warrantys!!!!


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## schroedogg (Feb 12, 2009)

_I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder_

That's not good news 

My dealer just now called me back (they have the saw fixed already). He said the only thing Dolmar is telling them is that alcohol content in the gas mixture can cause the scoring problem. But they tested the gas that was in the tank and said they couldn't find any alcohol content at all. He did say that when I first took the saw they left it set to run at factory settings which was fairly lean. This time he said they've set it to run pretty much as rich as possible given the limiter. Hmm.... Not sure what to do... If the thing is that sensitive, will the cylinder get scored again in another year or two even running rich? Thanks for the quick replies so far! I'm wondering if I should try selling this and getting a Stihl...


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## timberwolf (Feb 12, 2009)

Ethanol in the mix will lean the mixture and if it picks up water from sitting it will lean even further.

If the saw is tuned to run with ethanol no problems as long as mix is fresh.

Get you self a tach and keep it tuned to the desired RPM. If the limiter caps prevent richening the mixture enough to be safe that is easy to fix.


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## blsnelling (Feb 12, 2009)

schroedogg said:


> _I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder_
> 
> That's not good news



Don't sweat that comment. They're good saws. They are a high performance, high RPM saw. The EPA forces them to be set lean from the factory, and it's biting them in the butt. As soon as you get that saw back, pull those caps and set the carb a little richer.


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

I have to reset the limiter caps on all the saws sold, I set all 5100's at 13,500 and 7900's at 12,500 and tell the customer to bring the saw back for a free retach after 5 gallons have been run through it.


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## bookerdog (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder--- even the one I own that ran of 100ll av gas--pieces of crap in my opinion and dolmar would not even honer the warrantys!!!!



Calling Ultra Come in Ultra:agree2:


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## blsnelling (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I have to reset the limiter caps on all the saws sold, I set all 5100's at 13,500 and 7900's at 12,500 and tell the customer to bring the saw back for a free retach after 5 gallons have been run through it.



So you set them all rich before you sold them and they still all came back scored? All 50 of them?


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## timberwolf (Feb 12, 2009)

Sold 50 saws that scored up no waranty... There must be a price on his head by now.


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> So you set them all rich before you sold them and they still all came back scored? All 50 of them?



Yes sir, some of them has air leaks caused by poris castings and others has faulty intake boots but most of them had faulty carbs and to tight of piston to cylinder tolerance.


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## davefr (Feb 12, 2009)

Does your saw have the metal reinforcing ring liner for the intake boot? Without it the boot could flex and suck in air.

Do a search. It was a weakness in the original design.

The ring is a <5 minute job.


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## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Calling Ultra Come in Ultra:agree2:



Booker Stop on over at My dealer ..There are two NE 346s dead on the shelf .. But that never happens to Huskys ...




Out of the 11 that they sold 2 dead already ....Now Im really scared about the 2153 I own.......Hope my Jred is better than the Husky ..

.


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

timberwolf said:


> Sold 50 saws that scored up no waranty... There must be a price on his head by now.



The customers got warranty BUT I still havent got paid from warranty claims 6 months ago!!!


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

davefr said:


> Does your saw have the reinforcing ring liner for the intake boot? Without it the boot could flex and suck in air.
> 
> Do a search. It was a weakness in the original design.
> 
> The ring is a <5 minute job.



I put the ring in many of 510's and 5100's but then dolmar told me to pull them back out!!


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## Brian S (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder--- even the one I own that ran of 100ll av gas--pieces of crap in my opinion and dolmar would not even honer the warrantys!!!!




Pics please!


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## timberwolf (Feb 12, 2009)

> The customers got warranty BUT I still havent got paid from warranty claims 6 months ago!!!



Not good, I imagin then you are not the only one...


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

Brian S said:


> Pics please!


How can I get picts when the customer has the saw???


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## davefr (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I put the ring in many of 510's and 5100's but then dolmar told me to pull them back out!!



Why?


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

.....AND all the scored p+c's got sent back to dolmar


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## blsnelling (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> Yes sir, some of them has air leaks caused by poris castings and others has faulty intake boots but most of them had faulty carbs and to tight of piston to cylinder tolerance.



Wow. So what happened to all these saws after you repaired them? I'd think you'd still have the same casting flaws and too tight bores.


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## Brian S (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> How can I get picts when the customer has the saw???



I thought you might have snapped some pics when like the 20th saw had come back, for warranty reasons with Dolmar.


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## bookerdog (Feb 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Booker Stop on over at My dealer ..There are two NE 346s dead on the shelf .. But that never happens to Huskys ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess thats better then 50 out of 50 I need one of those 288xp you have got also. If you want to sell one let me know.


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

davefr said:


> Why?



Because the boot is not designed to have a sleve put in it, it was causing air leaks at the carb to intake mount.


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## Caz (Feb 12, 2009)

When were these 50 saws manufactured ?


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## davefr (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> Because the boot is not designed to have a sleve put in it, it was causing air leaks at the carb to intake mount.



So it was causing worse problems then it was intending to solve??

Maybe I need to remove mine.


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## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> I guess thats better then 50 out of 50 I need one of those 288xp you have got also. If you want to sell one let me know.



50 out of 50 




What 288 are you referring too??



.


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## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> .....AND all the scored p+c's got sent back to dolmar



Via Magneto Power right? That's the thing with Dolmar... A guy has to work through a middle man.


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## schroedogg (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman,

So have you stopped selling the 5100? Have you had repeat problems after fixing the first time?

Others,

So far it sounds like the only consensus is to limit the RPM and also to set the mixture richer. I'm not exactly sure how to "pull those caps and set the carb a little richer.", though I guess that's probably something I could google for. I'm also not sure if it has the "metal reinforcing ring liner for the intake boot" or not. Not really even sure how to find out. I'm somewhat mechanically inclined but just don't have much experience & don't know the terminology. I can follow directions, though and do like to take things apart (getting them back together is another issue). Will do some google searching later.


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

I was told by my distributer to quit sellin 5100's especially.


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## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I was told by my distributer to quit sellin 5100's especially.



Who is your distributer???




.


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## windthrown (Feb 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Booker Stop on over at My dealer ..There are two NE 346s dead on the shelf .. But that never happens to Huskys ...
> 
> Out of the 11 that they sold 2 dead already ....Now Im really scared about the 2153 I own.......Hope my Jred is better than the Husky ..
> 
> .



No! Say it ain't so! I was just lusting after a 346XP/NE the day before yesterday. A clear model on the shelf (they would not sell me that one). Maybe it was good that they were out of stock?!?!?! 

[x] avoid Dolmar 5100s
[?] avoid Husky 346XP/NE 

Are there no 50cc screamers out there that are worth buying?


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## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

windthrown said:


> No! Say it ain't so! I was just lusting after a 346XP/NE the day before yesterday. A clear model on the shelf (they would not sell me that one). Maybe it was good that they were out of stock?!?!?!
> 
> [x] avoid Dolmar 5100s
> [?] avoid Husky 346XP/NE
> ...



Same owner .......Bad gas both saws......Both Cat muffler saws....




His Stihl went down same day ....Three saws trashed by same owner ....


Ya'd thunk he knew there was a problem...



.


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## blsnelling (Feb 12, 2009)

So why aren't we hearing about this from all distributors? Seems that if every 5100S sold was seizing, they'd either be recalled or pulled from the market. Something doesn't jive here.


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## bookerdog (Feb 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Same owner .......Bad gas both saws......Both Cat muffler saws....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You mean he just keep going after the first one then to the second then the 3rd.


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## bookerdog (Feb 12, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> So why aren't we hearing about this from all distributors? Seems that if every 5100S sold was seizing, they'd either be recalled or pulled from the market. Something doesn't jive here.



If this is happening how many distributors do you think would want this out. We never hear about a recall until we get a recall notice.


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## excess650 (Feb 12, 2009)

I bought a "refurb" Makita 540 (Dolmar PS-540)that was so lean as to almost not want to run. I pulled the limiter tabs, tuned it to where it wants to run, and put the tabs back on. I think it would have scored had it not been retuned. The low speed screw out far enough that the idle screw is in as far as it will go.

I also have a Makita 401 that was too lean with OEM limiter cap positions. I pulled the caps and retuned it as well.

Between the :censored:EPA and this :censored:ethanol fuel, lots of saws are going to die a quick death!


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## blsnelling (Feb 12, 2009)

I bought a new 401 before Christmas that was so lean on the L side it wouldn't even accelerate. I immediately pulled the caps and trimmed the tabs.


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## Stihl here (Feb 12, 2009)

My old 026 runs good...


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## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

I just got off the phone with a forestry company I sold a PS-3400TH to last year.

No problems at all with it... He said they've changed the air filter and plug once. I explicitly asked him about the limiter caps not allowing him to correctly tune, and he said it was good.

He said his guys still thought the 200T has a little better balance in the hand... But he also said the 200T was double the cost.

He's still happy with the cost to performance ratio.

Hopefully, this is a 5100 issue only, and will be addressed soon.


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## windthrown (Feb 12, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> So why aren't we hearing about this from all distributors? Seems that if every 5100S sold was seizing, they'd either be recalled or pulled from the market. Something doesn't jive here.



I have had 6 or 8 PMs from used-to-be Dolly dealers on AS from my posts on these issues. They do not post openly becasue of their known association with being a Dolmar dealer or working for one. There has been some fallout from dealers that post openly about issue here (from other dealers, or distributors, I do not know). It seems to be that getting saws, parts and service OKs seem to be a huge problem. Two of the local ex-Dolmar dealers here in the PNW (not on AS) talked to me about why they were no longer dealers, and the issues were lack of parts availability, back-ordered saws, and the distributor insisting that they work on saws, but not backing up the warantees. Two others flat refused to discuss Dolmar at all, and they were obviously still fuming. 

This area is covered by Magneto Power in Portland. Magneto has the entire north west US strip from the PNW out to Wisconsin. I talked to them a year or two ago about becoming a Dolmar dealer myself. Not the friendliest of people to do business with. They wanted a lot, and offered me very little. They were adamat about having a prime location, and having a shop to work on saws.


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## Javelin (Feb 12, 2009)

I will give you $50 a piece for the junk dolmars!


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## gink595 (Feb 12, 2009)

Javelin said:


> I will give you $50 a piece for the junk dolmars!



I'll up it, I'll give ya 51.00 dollars


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## Javelin (Feb 12, 2009)

Dang it You had to go up one me!


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## gink595 (Feb 12, 2009)

Javelin said:


> Dang it You had to go up one me!



Dang right and I'll give ya 79.00 for any 7900


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## SawTroll (Feb 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Booker Stop on over at My dealer ..There are two NE 346s dead on the shelf .. But that never happens to Huskys ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They sell like hot-cakes at my dealer, he hasn't even been able to keep one for himself - and no failiures so far....

...none are e-tech though, I talked him out of taking those in....

"Everyone" use Aspen fuel here, so no fuel related problems.


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## windthrown (Feb 12, 2009)

Yah, all sold out here too! except the clear display model 

I may have to actually drag my butt up to Madsens :monkey:. 

I presume that they will not charge me sales tax with an OR driver's license there?


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## blsnelling (Feb 12, 2009)

Very interesting, very interesting indeed


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Feb 12, 2009)

The ONLY person that can squash this thread is Roger B. Doesn't he have a crazy 5100 piped that has run freaking strong for 3 or more years...

I'm not worried...


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## Chaz1 (Feb 12, 2009)

Can't find a 346xp on the shelf at either of my local dealers. Even the in-house salesmen and mechanics all own these lil' rippers!


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## SawTroll (Feb 12, 2009)

Chaz1 said:


> Can't find a 346xp on the shelf at either of my local dealers. Even the in-house salesmen and mechanics all own these lil' rippers!



I snatched the first one the dealer got in - sept 2007 - believe I was the first AS member to get one.


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## windthrown (Feb 12, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> I snatched the first one the dealer got in - sept 2007 - believe I was the first AS member to get one.



You dog! (double meaning here stateside, positive bashing).


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## Kemper (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder--- even the one I own that ran of 100ll av gas--pieces of crap in my opinion and dolmar would not even honer the warrantys!!!!




Wow, almost every Dolmar you sold scored the cylinder? after "you" reset the limiters and adjusted the carbs? hmm,


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 12, 2009)

A local Dolmar rep told me the 5100's are dropping like flies, but 50 saws?? I'm not buying it. The 7900's are very durable saws, and I've never heard of any top end problems with the 7900. Hell the Home Depot rents them out for years at a time without any issues. Sorry but it sound like you just don't know how to tune the carbs correctly. 

In my opinion the compensating carb on the 5100 is the main cause of all these saws burning up. The carb simply doesn't feed the saw enough fuel during hard use, and when the filter gets dirty.


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## Javelin (Feb 12, 2009)

:monkey:Yes something just does not add up!


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## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> You mean he just keep going after the first one then to the second then the 3rd.



Story my dealer told me is they fried 3 saws the same day ....2 Husky 346NE and 1 MS 460 Stihl .....



My Stihl dealer said they dropped of a burn up saw in the morning and later that day he got a call from my Husky dealer asking about what he knew ...Looks like the guys running the saws shouldnt run them ......*Operator stupidity *


3 F'n saws is two too many .........



.


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## Javelin (Feb 12, 2009)

5100's are working fine for me! Only had two failure both customer and fuel related not the saws fault! Also Dolmar covered them and they did not have to do it! I am happy and they are happy with my numbers that I do and I do those because of the good relationship that I have with them!:greenchainsaw:


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## THALL10326 (Feb 12, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> I snatched the first one the dealer got in - sept 2007 - believe I was the first AS member to get one.




You got the first 346xp but me ole mighty one himslef got the best one, how do I know, cause I say so,LOLOL

All this talk about 5100's burning up all the sudden, whats up with that. I know EPA has been cracking the whip and all the new saws are coming out the box leaner than ever. They have to in order to be sold in the USA. Its coming down to if you can't take the heat get out the kitchen baby.


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## excess650 (Feb 12, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> A local Dolmar rep told me the 5100's are dropping like flies, but 50 saws?? I'm not buying it. The 7900's are very durable saws, and I've never heard of any top end problems with the 7900. Hell the Home Depot rents them out for years at a time without any issues. Sorry but it sound like you just don't know how to tune the carbs correctly.
> 
> In my opinion the compensating carb on the 5100 is the main cause of all these saws burning up. The carb simply doesn't feed the saw enough fuel during hard use, and when the filter gets dirty.



5100s have "compensating carbs"? If so, and they are leaning out too much for dirty filters, that could be the problem. Otherwise, a clogged filter should cause a "rich" condition.

Porous castings? If the crankcases are PAINTED inside and out, they aren't the source of the problem. Porous castings in cylinders should be sealed by plating with chrome or nikasil. We've heard of "spun bearings" but i seriously doubt that all of these saws had bearings loose enough to score cylinders. I'm more apt to believe too lean carb settings and/or intake issues.


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

The pouris casting is the crank case and the paint is also coming off inside the crankcase clogging the impulse hose making them run lean!!!


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## Marco (Feb 12, 2009)

There is not a Dolmar dealer within 80 miles of Sandpoint for those keeping score at home.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 12, 2009)

*SugarBush*

Hey ole feller whatcha think of all this talk,LOL

I say to hell with all these saws, I'm ready to plant some mators, how bout you?????????????????????????


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## THALL10326 (Feb 12, 2009)

Marco said:


> There is not a Dolmar dealer within 80 miles of Sandpoint for those keeping score at home.



Now dayummm it Marco, your not suppose to use Mapquest or the GPX thing a ma jimmy to verify these sourses, shames on ya,LOLOLOL


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## sugarbush (Feb 12, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Hey ole feller whatcha think of all this talk,LOL
> 
> I say to hell with all these saws, I'm ready to plant some mators, how bout you?????????????????????????



the snow is a little to deep here for mators, about as deep as the BS on the 5100. in about 4 years i've yet to have one come back for anything other then a tac check. but it has been an amusing read.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 12, 2009)

sugarbush said:


> the snow is a little to deep here for mators, about as deep as the BS on the 5100. in about 4 years i've yet to have one come back for anything other then a tac check. but it has been an amusing read.



Deep here, somehow I knew you was gonna say that,LOLOLOL


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## Freakingstang (Feb 12, 2009)

sugarbush said:


> the snow is a little to deep here for mators, about as deep as the BS on the 5100. in about 4 years i've yet to have one come back for anything other then a tac check. but it has been an amusing read.



Cool, I must have one of the good originially 5100's. Mine's been living on a farm with almost daily use for the last two years...


yup, just got off the phone with dave, it still runs like the day I dropped it off. but then again, he knows how to run, maintain, and check a saw's rpm...


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

I got nothing more to say if nobody wants to take this problem seriously.


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## funky sawman (Feb 12, 2009)

You guys just wait, when dolmar goes out of buisness at least in the USA, I will say TOLD YOU SO


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## Marco (Feb 12, 2009)

That 85 mile commute from Sandpoint to the nearest Dolmar dealer could be taking its toll.


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## Marco (Feb 12, 2009)

There are a few folks that would tell you to sit on a fire hydrant and rotate till you feel sidewalk NOW.


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## sugarbush (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> You guys just wait, when dolmar goes out of buisness at least in the USA, I will say TOLD YOU SO



if there that bad, why just the USA?


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## THALL10326 (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I got nothing more to say if nobody wants to take this problem seriously.



Well Funky the problem isn't beleiving you, the problem is so many seem to have no trouble what so ever with the 5100. Thats why some are taking issue. I got one and it seems fine. I admit I haven't run it all that much but I've found nothing wrong with it, it runs fine. It tachs at 14,500 and I'm gonna leave it right there. If she fails she fails but until she does I can't be worried about it. Just a another saw..


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## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Who is your distributor???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Still waiting for this answer .........:agree2::agree2:




.


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## sugarbush (Feb 12, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Well Funky the problem isn't beleiving you, the problem is so many seem to have no trouble what so ever with the 5100. Thats why some are taking issue. I got one and it seems fine. I admit I haven't run it all that much but I've found nothing wrong with it, it runs fine. It tachs at 14,500 and I'm gonna leave it right there. If she fails she fails but until she does I can't be worried about it. Just a another saw..



Is it still under warranty? lolol


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## THALL10326 (Feb 12, 2009)

sugarbush said:


> Is it still under warranty? lolol



Not worried about it, I know a man that can fix it,hehehe


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## sugarbush (Feb 12, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Not worried about it, I know a man that can fix it,hehehe



If it fails i,m sure he will, he might be curious about what the inside of one looks like.


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Feb 12, 2009)

sugarbush said:


> the snow is a little to deep here for mators, about as deep as the BS on the 5100. in about 4 years i've yet to have one come back for anything other then a tac check. but it has been an amusing read.



The dolmar gangsters standing behind Shuga...:sword:


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## THALL10326 (Feb 12, 2009)

sugarbush said:


> If it fails i,m sure he will, he might be curious about what the inside of one looks like.




Haha, really...................


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## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Haha, really...................


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## Freakingstang (Feb 12, 2009)

I want my time back, seriously


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## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

Freakingstang said:


> I want my time back, seriously



Where have you been Freak.????


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## Termite (Feb 12, 2009)

*Maybe?*

Months ago a thread was posted about 5100's running lean. I mentioned in the thread that my dealer [D&D enterprises-Salem Indiana] cut a notch in the rubber gasket under the air filter. This foam gasket makes the atmosphere side of the diaphragm pull air through the air filter. Dealer says plugged air filter equals not enough fuel pumped to carb equals burnt up saw. I don't know if this is true or not but my saw is still running fine.


Maybe my dealer is on to something with his modification? The whole filter does not need to be plugged to starve the back side of the diaphragm. It pulls air through only a small portion of the filter.
The atmosphere side of the 7900 is does not pull through the air filter and it works fine!


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## weimedog (Feb 12, 2009)

Termite said:


> Months ago a thread was posted about 5100's running lean. I mentioned in the thread that my dealer [D&D enterprises-Salem Indiana] cut a notch in the rubber gasket under the air filter. This foam gasket makes the atmosphere side of the diaphragm pull air through the air filter. Dealer says plugged air filter equals not enough fuel pumped to carb equals burnt up saw. I don't know if this is true or not but my saw is still running fine.
> 
> 
> Maybe my dealer is on to something with his modification? The whole filter does not need to be plugged to starve the back side of the diaphragm. It pulls air through only a small portion of the filter.
> The atmosphere side of the 7900 is does not pull through the air filter and it works fine!



It it possible to swap out that carb for something more conventional?


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

Marco said:


> There is not a Dolmar dealer within 80 miles of Sandpoint for those keeping score at home.



Well, you would be wrong... Really wrong. I've been in the shop, and they are great guys. Funky is a faller, and knows how to tune a saw for Christ's sake... He even mod's them.

Perhaps you should know the facts before you speak.



04ultra said:


> Still waiting for this answer .........:agree2::agree2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ultra... Magnet Power out of Oregon. Call them and ask for Amy or Ron West. And it's unfortunately true, they are having issues with the 5100's in Sandpoint... And, no, it's not the shops fault.

Funky and the rest of the fellas in there are great guys, and they run a nice shop.


----------



## Marco (Feb 12, 2009)

No Dolmar dealer in Sandpoint according to the Dolmar map


----------



## windthrown (Feb 12, 2009)

sugarbush said:


> if there that bad, why just the USA?



Amung other things, EPA (US requirements to have them running too lean), US gas (crappy ethanol and low octane) and factory tuning at the Dolmar factory using German gas (high octane, no ethanol).


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

Marco said:


> No Dolmar dealer in Sandpoint according to the Dolmar map



That Dolmar map is a f:censored:ing joke.


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder--- even the one I own that ran of 100ll av gas--pieces of crap in my opinion and dolmar would not even honer the warrantys!!!!



:spam: :notrolls2:

You'd think if you're going to make up some cockamaney story, it would be _somewhat_ believable.......




Marco said:


> There is not a Dolmar dealer within 80 miles of Sandpoint for those keeping score at home.



Funny you would point that out :blush: 

I mean, it's pretty obvious that Skunky's delusional but good PI work anyway!


----------



## windthrown (Feb 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Still waiting for this answer .........:agree2::agree2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I posted that already dude! Magneto Power. Portland office here does the PNW and Alaska. 

Intergrated Distributors Network, LLC 
Magneto Power
Portland office/Ron West
1-800-597-3880

Can you spell multi-level marketing?


----------



## Marco (Feb 12, 2009)

Any Dolmar dealers here can't find themselves on Dolmars map? Speak up


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

windthrown said:


> The Dolmar US distributor for the entire region for WA, OR, ID, north WY, MT, ND, SD, MN, WI, and the west UP of MI, OK and TX is Magneto. Portland office does the PNW.



Magneto doesn't handle distributorship for Montana... They make the dealers go through OEI in Billings... That's a double-distributer whammy for dealers.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

Marco said:


> Any Dolmar dealers here can't find themselves on Dolmars map? Speak up



I cant ..............





.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

Marco said:


> Any Dolmar dealers here can't find themselves on Dolmars map? Speak up



Search for NW Montana, and it kicks out a dealer in Creston, Ohio.


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 12, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> And it's unfortunately true, they are having issues with the 5100's in Sandpoint... And, no, it's not the shops fault.
> 
> Funky and the rest of the fellas in there are great guys, and they run a nice shop.



Hmmmmmmm......Must be evil spirits or maybe like the Bermuda Triangle or something, in Sawpoint Idaho.


----------



## Marco (Feb 12, 2009)

Any particular zip code or city?


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> Well, you would be wrong... Really wrong. I've been in the shop, and they are great guys. Funky is a faller, and knows how to tune a saw for Christ's sake... He even mod's them.
> 
> Perhaps you should know the facts before you speak.
> 
> ...





50 saws all went down .......only 50 saws ???


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> Hmmmmmmm......Must be evil spirits or maybe like the Bermuda Triangle or something, in Sawpoint Idaho.



I know the inside paint in the case is peeling off. Not sure if they have excessively high Ethanol content there or not?

And I know they've proven it's a saw defect, and their distributer is shining them on.

Funky isn't coming on here to bash Dolmar. When they first got the line in, they were sporting wood, and all excited.


----------



## windthrown (Feb 12, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> Magneto doesn't handle distributorship for Montana... They make the dealers go through OEI in Billings... That's a double-distributer whammy for dealers.



So noted. I revised my post to the PNW, and what Magneto claims to be their area (they also claim Montana.... eh?).


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> 50 saws all went down .......only 50 saws ???



I don't know the exact number... But I know it's been a problem for them.

And if Funky says they've had warranty work on 50 saws... I believe him. I don't think they've had the same problems with other models.

Like I said earlier in the thread... That 3400TH is over a year into commercial cutting, and running strong.


----------



## davefr (Feb 12, 2009)

> I posted that already dude! Magneto Power. Portland office here does the PNW and Alaska.
> 
> Intergrated Distributors Network, LLC
> Magneto Power
> ...



That's funny. A distributer here in Portland yet I have to go to NY to buy a Dolmar because there are no "real" dealers in Portland.

That distributer doesn't sound very effective.


----------



## windthrown (Feb 12, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> That Dolmar map is a f:censored:ing joke.



You got that right. I tried to find the one in Salem once, and it was a chain-link fenced in area around an old abandoned building that was once a saw shop from the faded signage. I wish I had snapped a photo of that location, and posted it with the address on the Dolmar web site. I called Ron in Portland and he gave me the location of the newer dealer there in Salem.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

windthrown said:


> So noted. I revised my post to the PNW, and what Magneto claims to be their area (they also claim Montana.... eh?).



It's cool... They do list it that way, and Magneto Power is "in charge"... It's just different when you get into the system... They sub to another distributer here.


----------



## windthrown (Feb 12, 2009)

davefr said:


> That's funny. A distributer here in Portland yet I have to go to NY to buy a Dolmar because there are no "real" dealers in Portland.
> 
> That distributer doesn't sound very effective.



Shhhhhhhhhhhhh.... you are supposed to keep the location of the PNW Dolmar dealers a secret.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> I don't know the exact number... But I know it's been a problem for them.
> 
> And if Funky says they've had warranty work on 50 saws... I believe him. I don't think they've had the same problems with other models.
> 
> Like I said earlier in the thread... That 3400TH is over a year into commercial cutting, and running strong.



3410th????


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 12, 2009)

weimedog said:


> It it possible to swap out that carb for something more conventional?



Well.. it is conventional and gives few problems. If you want to defeat this feature, just replace the carb metering end with one that doesn't have the comp port.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

windthrown said:


> You got that right. I tried to find the one in Salem once, and it was a chain-link fenced in area around an old abandoned building that was once a saw shop from the faded signage. I wish I had snapped a photo of that location, and posted it with the address on the Dolmar web site. I called Ron in Portland and he gave me the location of the newer dealer there in Salem.



Yup, that map is neither up to date, nor accurate.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> 3410th????



Dolmar PS-3400 TH (top handle).


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> Dolmar PS-3400 TH (top handle).



Never seen PS-3400 TH ........But I do have a PS-3410 TH 





.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Never seen PS-3400 TH ........But I do have a PS-3410 TH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## windthrown (Feb 12, 2009)

Dolmar has lots of the same saws with various part numbers. Drove me nuts looking at the 401, which goes under several different numbers. Here is a diagram from the parts manual:


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

Metals406 said:


>



From what I see and hear that PS-3400 TH never hit the USA ........Sold over seas ......Never seen one in person ..


3410 is a nice saw ....



.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> From what I see and hear that PS-3400 TH never hit the USA ........Sold over seas ......Never seen one in person ..
> 
> 
> 3410 is a nice saw ....
> ...



I believe the 3410 replaced the 3400... I'd have to look though. Don't know about the overseas thing, cause I got one from the distributer when I asked for it. LOL

Yeah, I thought it was a pretty good little saw. Their broke-in 200T out-cut it by a second or two... But the 3400 was new out'a the box. I wonder what an exhaust mod would do for the little fella?


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Feb 12, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> Because the boot is not designed to have a sleve put in it, it was causing air leaks at the carb to intake mount.




So how were you able to get the saw to adjust to an acceptable RPM if it was running lean in the first place?


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 12, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> I believe the 3410 replaced the 3400... I'd have to look though. Don't know about the overseas thing, cause I got one from the distributer when I asked for it. LOL
> 
> Yeah, I thought it was a pretty good little saw. Their broke-in 200T out-cut it by a second or two... But the 3400 was new out'a the box. I wonder what an exhaust mod would do for the little fella?



3410 breaths a lot better opened up ....


Post some pictures of the 3400 ...Like I said never seen one ......Whats the eye that you hook too made out of on the 3400.??


----------



## CHEVYTOWN13 (Feb 12, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> I wonder what an exhaust mod would do for the little fella?



We're going to have to "jump" Metals into the Dolmar crew...


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Feb 12, 2009)

50 out of 50............something is wrong here and it ain't the saws!!!


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

CHEVYTOWN13 said:


> We're going to have to "jump" Metals into the Dolmar crew...



LOL... Metals has been part of that crew for a while... For realz.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> 3410 breaths a lot better opened up ....
> 
> 
> Post some pictures of the 3400 ...Like I said never seen one ......Whats the eye that you hook too made out of on the 3400.??



I think they are one in the same Ultra? I can't post pics of the 3400, as it was given to it's owner last year... Aspen Urban Forestry.

I don't remember if the beaner hole on the back was junk cast, or aluminum cast... But it was cast.

We clipped a beaner to it, and it did improve the balance of the saw too. With that little bit of weight the beaner added, a guy could balance the saw with one finger on the trigger. I told them to just leave the beaner clipped to the saw if that little bit of balance bothered them.


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 12, 2009)

rahtreelimbs said:


> 50 out of 50............something is wrong here and it ain't the saws!!!



My thoughts....Exactly!


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

rahtreelimbs said:


> 50 out of 50............something is wrong here and it ain't the saws!!!



I don't think it was 50:50?.. Just 50 returned for warranty work.


----------



## Woodie (Feb 12, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> That Dolmar map is a f:censored:ing joke.




I remember a couple years ago looking to test drive a Dolmar, there were supposedly three dealers in my area.

I called one and asked about their Dolmars.

"Our Whomars?"

Called the second one..."Our Dolwhats?"

Stopped in the third one, they carried homeowner-only. This same shop sells a $575 lawn edger, but their Dolly line topped out at half that. 

Them: "We can order one for you." 
Me: "So can I."




.


----------



## CHEVYTOWN13 (Feb 12, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> LOL... Metals has been part of that crew for a while... For realz.



Alright brother! Shooot. Don't mess with THE DOCTOR!


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## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

chevytown13 said:


> alright brother! Shooot. Don't mess with the doctor!



lol


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

Woodie said:


> I remember a couple years ago looking to test drive a Dolmar, there were supposedly three dealers in my area.
> 
> I called one and asked about their Dolmars.
> 
> ...



Yup, it's that way in a lot of states... More than people think.


----------



## CHEVYTOWN13 (Feb 12, 2009)

I can't wait for your next "joke picture"...morgue, fella with a crazy looking axe...hmmmm. What could be next?:greenchainsaw:


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## Andyshine77 (Feb 12, 2009)

Woodie said:


> I remember a couple years ago looking to test drive a Dolmar, there were supposedly three dealers in my area.
> 
> I called one and asked about their Dolmars.
> 
> ...



I had the same thing happen to me with RedMax and Dolmar.

Right now the one good local Dolmar dealer I had recently dropped Dolmar because of all the problems he had with Dolmar not covering warranty work. I've known this dealer most of my life, (local guy) so he tells me more than most would. He said when there was a failure with any of these saws, Dolmar would always blame him or the customer for the failure, even when it was obviously a defective part. In my opinion I think the 7900 is a wonderful saw, but if I had to guess, Dolmar will be no more in a few years, unless they really turn things around..


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 12, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> I had the same thing happen to me with RedMax and Dolmar.
> 
> Right now the one good local Dolmar dealer I had recently dropped Dolmar because of all the problems he had with Dolmar not covering warranty work. I've known this dealer most of my life, (local guy) so he tells me more than most would. He said when there was a failure with any of these saws, Dolmar would always blame him or customer for the failure, even when it was obviously a defective part. In my opinion I think the 7900 is a wonderful saw, but if I had to guess, Dolmar will be no more in a few years, unless they really turn things around..



Dealer support is a huge issue. They pretty much say, "Buy lots of our saws, and have a nice day... Don't call us unless you're ordering more product."


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## spacemule (Feb 12, 2009)

Are the warranty problems limited to one distributor, or are these universal?


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## Metals406 (Feb 13, 2009)

spacemule said:


> Are the warranty problems limited to one distributor, or are these universal?



I know of a couple shops that have dealt with warranty bull.


----------



## spacemule (Feb 13, 2009)

Seems an awfully effective way to blow your feet off.


----------



## Airecon (Feb 13, 2009)

What are some of you guys setting the rpm on your 5100 at?


----------



## SawTroll (Feb 13, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Amung other things, EPA (US requirements to have them running too lean), US gas (crappy ethanol and low octane) and factory tuning at the Dolmar factory using German gas (high octane, no ethanol).




That could well be a factor.


----------



## 7sleeper (Feb 13, 2009)

I have not read on any german sites of failures with Dolmar products out of proportion. It might be because the european model has a rev limiter. Who knows?

7


----------



## SawTroll (Feb 13, 2009)

7sleeper said:


> I have not read on any german sites of failures with Dolmar products out of proportion. It might be because the european model has a rev limiter. Who knows?
> 
> 7



The 4600S revs as high as the 5100S - never heard of problems with that one either.....


----------



## MCW (Feb 13, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder



Yeah sure 
Are customers bringing them back because they've pulled the muffler and seen the scoring or have the saws lost power/died?



Metals406 said:


> And if Funky says they've had warranty work on 50 saws... I believe him.



Maybe he HAS had nearly 50 Dolmars back for warranty work but "almost every Dolmar" is a loooong stretch. Maybe he got a bad batch (VERY bad batch) that nobody else in the world seems to have gotten? I own a 5100-S and I know they've had "some" problems in the past (as have many saws) but nearly every Dolmar he's sold? It started off as a serious thread but that went a bit too far. Maybe if he'd sold *TWO* Dolmars and had nearly every one come back with warranty work I'd have believed him...


----------



## whitedogone (Feb 13, 2009)

As the OP said "one of those "screaming" Dolmar 5100's "....maybe that's why they scream....too lean.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 13, 2009)

spacemule said:


> Are the warranty problems limited to one distributor, or are these universal?



We've had nothing but great support from our distributor (Atlantic Power). We filed warranty on a saw with broken AV springs...something you could say was questionable whether it was user damaged or how it happened. Dolmar paid us in less than 2 weeks, no questions.
We're a pretty small dealer, and haven't sold Dolmars for very long (since Sep. 07) we don't sell a huge number of saws but we have had ZERO major problems with any Dolmar product.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2009)

Sounds like a bad distributor on the west coast, or bad relations with the dealer.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Sounds like a bad distributor on the west coast, or bad relations with the dealer.



When we signed up, there was no parts stocking requirement (to be honest, I think there should be) and a 12pc minimum initial equipment order. Sounds to me like a bad distributor, too.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2009)

Is there a channel to communicate this kind of thing with corporate?


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> We've had nothing but great support from our distributor (Atlantic Power). We filed warranty on a saw with broken AV springs...something you could say was questionable whether it was user damaged or how it happened. Dolmar paid us in less than 2 weeks, no questions.
> We're a pretty small dealer, and haven't sold Dolmars for very long (since Sep. 07) we don't sell a huge number of saws but we have had ZERO major problems with any Dolmar product.



Two weeks, thats stone age man. I can send Stihl a warranty claim electronicly at 9am and go back at 10am and see thats its been paid and credited to our account. Very rarely does it take more than a few hours depending on how busy they are. Tell them boys to get with the program, two weeks is horse and buggy days, its 2009 baby,


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Is there a channel to communicate this kind of thing with corporate?



Terry Green is their main rep. He used to come on this site. Seems like a helluva good guy..


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> When we signed up, there was no parts stocking requirement (to be honest, I think there should be) and a 12pc minimum initial equipment order. Sounds to me like a bad distributor, too.



Preferred Power told us we had to take at least 5000.00 worth of product to set up Dolmar in our store. We thought about it but then we had a Briggs&Stratton engine blow in 4 hours on a rental brush cutting mower. They told us tuff luck so we told them fine, we closed our account with them and said tuff luck too...


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 13, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Two weeks, thats stone age man. I can send Stihl a warranty claim electronicly at 9am and go back at 10am and see thats its been paid and credited to our account. Very rarely does it take more than a few hours depending on how busy they are. Tell them boys to get with the program, two weeks is horse and buggy days, its 2009 baby,



Oh sure, electronic is the way to go. Dolmar is behind the times with a mail-in warranty program, that's for sure. But hey, what counts is whether or not you end up with the $$ in your pocket.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 13, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Preferred Power told us we had to take at least 5000.00 worth of product to set up Dolmar in our store. We thought about it but then we had a Briggs&Stratton engine blow in 4 hours on a rental brush cutting mower. They told us tuff luck so we told them fine, we closed our account with them and said tuff luck too...



And stihl wants what, 20K to start?


----------



## gink595 (Feb 13, 2009)

Is it true that anyone that handles Briggs and Stratton can get parts for a Dolmar saw, regardless of wether their a dealer or not?


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> And stihl wants what, 20K to start?



We started off with a $13,000 worth. Now were turning almost $300,000 a year with it. Wise investment. Stihl has gotten picky where new dealerships are located. They prefer in a populated area, not out in the woods like the good ole days.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> Oh sure, electronic is the way to go. Dolmar is behind the times with a mail-in warranty program, that's for sure. But hey, what counts is whether or not you end up with the $$ in your pocket.



I noticed you can register the product online from their website. Knowing that they have the tools for electronic warranty claims as well. Baffles me why they aren't using it. Mail is fast becoming a thing of the past...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> And stihl wants what, 20K to start?



Depends.. We've never had 20k of inventory.... but we buy more than that each month.... or we did until everyone stopped buying anything.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 13, 2009)

Lakeside53 said:


> Depends.. We've never had 20k of inventory.... but we buy more than that each month.... or we did until everyone stopped buying anything.



I'm talking startup costs. I've heard some pretty ridiculous (IMO) figures over the years.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 13, 2009)

Lakeside53 said:


> Depends.. We've never had 20k of inventory.... but we buy more than that each month.... or we did until everyone stopped buying anything.



So business is going to pot out there?


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> So business is going to pot out there?



Business is slow everywhere man. The DC area has been lucky but we're now starting to see and feel what the rest of the country has been dealing with. Local paper yesterday headline, area companies lay off 55,000 workers. Its getting tuff around here...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> So business is going to pot out there?



Yep... at least for November though Feb...


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 13, 2009)

Pretty much same old same old as far as local business goes. We'll see how the summer goes. They say that the economy has always been so bad here that we may not notice much.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> I'm talking startup costs. I've heard some pretty ridiculous (IMO) figures over the years.



They make it sound hard to get in - that's just to raise the bar to keep every backyard operator from trying to become a dealer. Once you sit down, they are pretty reasonable - they don't want a dealer to go go under or be in difficulty either.

The biggest expense for a new startup is they have to buy the Stihl display stands and have stihl service tools. Apart from that, just representaive saws, trimmers, blowers and supplies. You do not have to carry the entire line, but it would be pretty hard to argue you don't need at have at least one of most saws below a 361.. no big deal. Some spares, but not a lot. It all depends on the area you are in. We rarely have more than 1-2 weeks of inventory, and the mix changes thoughout the seasons.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 13, 2009)

We're fortunate here in that the distributor is only about 40 miles away. Most anything can be ordered and received in one day if ordered in the morning. That really helps the dealer out not having to stock a huge inventory, yet able to give satisfactory service.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 13, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Preferred Power told us we had to take at least 5000.00 worth of product to set up Dolmar in our store. We thought about it but then we had a Briggs&Stratton engine blow in 4 hours on a rental brush cutting mower. They told us tuff luck so we told them fine, we closed our account with them and said tuff luck too...



The distributer here is mainly Briggs&Stratton... I set it up my account with no inventory. Why? 

I told Ron West I wanted to test the waters first... Most loggers, or guys that use a saw a lot, are brand loyal. It's either Stihl or Husky, or occasionally Jonsered (Ron admitted he's had the same problem in Oregon). Most guys say they've never heard or Sachs or Dolmar. I told Ron that I wasn't going to buy 10 grand worth of stuff, just to sit on it... And so far, that's been a very wise decision on my part.

Until Dolmar gets in the game, and helps the dealer with advertising etc... It's really hard to convince local companies, and guys that Dolmar is a viable choice. Even a lot of my buddies are like, "Stihl is the only saw on the planet."

Also, when you call the distributer about a saw, or a part, or you want some mechanical info... They say, "If it's warranty work send it in". Dealers aren't supposed to do any mechanical. Even if I wanted shop manuals for troubleshooting... They won't let you have any. Pretty much, they don't even want to be bothered with Dolmar, and it shows. They make their money with B&S, and Dolmar seems to be a thorn in their butt.

So I order when I can sell one. And when I do, the distributer is short with you on the phone. If I carried inventory--I'd be in the hole big time.

Another thing is advertising. I asked them about hats, shirts, stickers, banners, pencils, pens, lighters, matches, hell--ANYTHING with Dolmar on it!? Nope, you as the dealer have to make your own... And MAYBE they will Co-Op some of your expenses. Same with radio or paper advertising. All you get for free is a couple pamphlets with out of date info to hand out.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> Pretty much same old same old as far as local business goes. We'll see how the summer goes. They say that the economy has always been so bad here that we may not notice much.



Around here.. new sales are dead, but interestingly, so is service. Homeowners are hunkered down.. not cutting, not spending. Pro repair sit on the shelf - they aren't picking thme up so they aren't workig much either... One pro tells me he doesn't need all his saws now as he's only running with one additional guy instead of 7.. Another came in and sold all his "broken" saws to us - 15 years of saws that had quit for one reason or another and were tossed onto the back of his shop...


----------



## windthrown (Feb 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Is there a channel to communicate this kind of thing with corporate?



This forum seems to be the only place. The web site pretty much points you at the regional distributor.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> Pretty much same old same old as far as local business goes. We'll see how the summer goes. They say that the economy has always been so bad here that we may not notice much.



If it doesn't pick up here.. a lot of *** dealers will be gone.. Even rental is dead. The building industy in this area has been booming for 20 years. Now it's stopped in its tracks... never happened here in most employment lifetimes, so they can't deal with it.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 13, 2009)

Lakeside53 said:


> If it doesn't pick up here.. a lot of *** dealers will be gone.. Even rental is dead. The building industy in this area has been booming for 20 years. Now it's stopped in its tracks... never happened here in most employment lifetimes, so they can't deal with it.



I never thought I would see Hood River come to a stop with all the windsurfing, sking and tourisim. We have lost all 3 of our major car dealers in the last 3 months. You can't buy a new car in hood river anymore. The grand columbia gorge hotel has close also. Haircuts seem to be going at the same pace thankgoodness.


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 13, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> The distributer here is mainly Briggs&Stratton... I set it up my account with no inventory. Why?
> 
> I told Ron West I wanted to test the waters first... Most loggers, or guys that use a saw a lot, are brand loyal. It's either Stihl or Husky, or occasionally Jonsered (Ron admitted he's had the same problem in Oregon). Most guys say they've never heard or Sachs or Dolmar. I told Ron that I wasn't going to buy 10 grand worth of stuff, just to sit on it... And so far, that's been a very wise decision on my part.
> 
> ...



Wow. I can understand why Dolmar is so spotty out there.
Atlantic Power has shop manuals, (not always very thorough, but better than nothing), IPL's, service bulletins & more all accessible online. We've never been told to send something in. We've gotten Dolmar hats, gloves, t-shirts, sweatshirts. Co-op advertising.


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## Metals406 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> Wow. I can understand why Dolmar is so spotty out there.
> Atlantic Power has shop manuals, (not always very thorough, but better than nothing), IPL's, service bulletins & more all accessible online. We've never been told to send something in. We've gotten Dolmar hats, gloves, t-shirts, sweatshirts. Co-op advertising.



I don't get it either? Maybe if I said, "Hey, I want to spend 15 grand on saws." They'd be like "Oh, we have a shirt for you now."

Probably still couldn't get a shop manual.


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## sugarbush (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> Wow. I can understand why Dolmar is so spotty out there.
> Atlantic Power has shop manuals, (not always very thorough, but better than nothing), IPL's, service bulletins & more all accessible online. We've never been told to send something in. We've gotten Dolmar hats, gloves, t-shirts, sweatshirts. Co-op advertising.



thats all available through Magneto Power.


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## Metals406 (Feb 13, 2009)

sugarbush said:


> thats all available through Magneto Power.



I'm sure it is... They told me "We'll have to check on that stuff", and "We're not sure what Dolmar offers for Co-Op". True facts.

I was then told to order all the stuff for myself with the Dolmar logo printed on it.


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## Lakeside53 (Feb 13, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Haircuts seem to be going at the same pace thankgoodness.



That's interesting... I got mine cut last week (3 months overdue) and they were all complaining that they'd only had 35 haircuts for 9 chairs the prior day... I of course made them feel really good by asking "what if everyone got their hair cut only half as much?" :greenchainsaw: 


yes.. everything around here is way down. Restaurants are in deep trouble (not including Mac Donalds etc..). What if everyone ate out half as much.. drove half as much... did whatever a lot less...?? luckily trees grow at the same rate...


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## windthrown (Feb 13, 2009)

OryGone is pretty deep into this recession. Bankruptcies are common. Housing and logging are in the tank. Mills are on skelleton crews or shut down. Banking is consolidating. Real Estate companies are going under. Xerox, Intel, Boeing and even Nike are laying off. Foreclosures are picking up. Several restaurant chains are failing. Circuit City and Linens 'n Things are folding.


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## 04ultra (Feb 13, 2009)

My Dolmar dealer is good about handing stuff out .... sweatshirts , pocket T's and hats ....




Husky dealer did give out hats and a few T-shirts a while back ..



Stihl dealer was just hats .........


Jonsered .......Nothing ....................



Solo .............well I guess I need to sell more before they know who you are ...
.


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## spike60 (Feb 13, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> I never thought I would see Hood River come to a stop with all the windsurfing, sking and tourisim. We have lost all 3 of our major car dealers in the last 3 months. You can't buy a new car in hood river anymore. The grand columbia gorge hotel has close also. Haircuts seem to be going at the same pace thankgoodness.




We *** dealers have one strength that should not be overlooked. Even in good times, people don't usually buy our stuff unless there is a genuine need. A guy doesn't buy a lawn tractor until the old one croaks. Same for saws, excepting CAD of course. It has always been a need based business. And it has always been more dependent on the weather than the economy. A drought scares me way more than the recession can. The only concern I have this year is getting retail finance approvals on the big ticket stuff like the Exmarks. I do know of a few shops that are genuinely worried, but these are bigger places with lot's of overhead, lot's of employees, etc. I know one guy who built a $900,000 show place 2 years ago, and he's pretty nervous. Dumb thing is he has a great business and really didn't need that two story monument. It has to be an ego thing.

If we get the weather, most of us will be OK. All of the work that needs to be done with our equipment will still have to be done one way or the other regardless of the economy. Grass still has to be mowed, snow still has to be moved, and wood still has to be cut. Saw wise, the economy has actually hepled us with a renewed interest in wood burning. Like anything, there can be exceptions to this logic. A saw only shop that is primarily focused on pros can be hurt real bad if the local timber industry shuts down. And I'm sure there are other examples.

Let's not compare ourselves to the car business though. Nine out of ten people who buy a new car don't need a new vehicle. The auto business has gotten used to customers getting a new one every 3 to 5 years. But what we are seeing now is people simply continuing to drive what they own, rather than trade in a 4 year old car in perfectly good shape. A positive note for the auto business though is something called the scrapage rate, which is the amount of vehicles that get junked every year. I think it has averaged 12 million units the last few years, so the auto biz should at least settle in at a similar volume. But the 16 to 17 million level they have enjoyed the last several years is not sustainable.

I'm actually thankful that I have a business that while not immune from the recession, is at least somewhat insulated from it. And most of all, it's great to be working for myself rather than be in a situation where some executive can decide that me and a hundred other people have to be let go in some kind of downsizing nonsense. I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## 04ultra (Feb 13, 2009)

Spike ......This brand ????



.


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## bookerdog (Feb 13, 2009)

spike60 said:


> I'm actually thankful that I have a business that while not immune from the recession, is at least somewhat insulated from it. QUOTE]
> 
> I think with the car dealerships it just kinda hurts. I was born and rasied in this town and use to wash cars at one of the dealers. I guess it just blows my mind that one of the dealers couldn't make it. We have been pretty recession proof in this little town with all the tourism, but now its really starting to hit. I have never seen my customers so scared and nervous.
> I tend to be like a bartender and hear it all as they lay it out. Last year it was who was fooling around with who. Now its who the've heard is going under.
> I seem to be more nice to my customers now. LOL I also seem to be getting new ones everyday that were going to a saloon and paying double. Im not going to rub my chest against them though. LOL


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## Metals406 (Feb 13, 2009)

windthrown said:


> OryGone is pretty deep into this recession. Bankruptcies are common. Housing and logging are in the tank. Mills are on skelleton crews or shut down. Banking is consolidating. Real Estate companies are going under. Xerox, Intel, Boeing and even Nike are laying off. Foreclosures are picking up. Several restaurant chains are failing. Circuit City and Linens 'n Things are folding.



Same thing happening here.


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## Brad101 (Feb 13, 2009)

Lakeside53 said:


> Around here.. new sales are dead, but interestingly, so is service. Homeowners are hunkered down.. not cutting, not spending. Pro repair sit on the shelf - they aren't picking thme up so they aren't workig much either... One pro tells me he doesn't need all his saws now as he's only running with one additional guy instead of 7.. Another came in and sold all his "broken" saws to us - 15 years of saws that had quit for one reason or another and were tossed onto the back of his shop...



Yes, business for me here in Oregon has been the same. Nov-Feb has been bad. Sales at a standstill. Not much service work either. Had a pretty good pick up in Jan due to a good snow and ice storm and lots of down trees and limbs. But Feb 1st hit and right back to very slow. I think people are only doing what has to be done right now and nothing more. That meant they got the big pieces of trees and limbs out of the way and did nothing more. I'm looking forward to the weather getting better and the grass and weeds to start growing. Things should pick up then when people "have" to do something.


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## Brad101 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ultra,

That is a great looking Boxer you have there. I had one for 10 1/2 years that had to be put down a year ago. They are great dogs. I am going to get another one pretty soon to hang out with my yellow lab.


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## funky sawman (Feb 13, 2009)

I feel really bad about this whole thing. I talked my boss into selling dolmars over a year ago but they let me down and that gives me a bad name from my leader's eyes. I have also told many customers the dolmar was the saw to buy; over the huskys that we sell and have been selling for over 35 years. I really liked dolmar as they ran very smooth and had awsome acceration. Mag power is the main one to blame I guess as they would not support our end of the buisness. I am not meaning to say EVERY dolmar is junk because even I have owned a few good ones. If dolmar had a better distributer, mabie it would reflect problems to Dolmar Germany for review and repair.


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## 04ultra (Feb 13, 2009)

Brad101 said:


> Ultra,
> 
> That is a great looking Boxer you have there. I had one for 10 1/2 years that had to be put down a year ago. They are great dogs. I am going to get another one pretty soon to hang out with my yellow lab.



THX ...........My guard dog ...........Bring treats, she has key too shop ...





.


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## Brad101 (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> And stihl wants what, 20K to start?



Naw, if you have a good location and a shop thats been around for a while I know you could get started for no more than 10k. If you are starting a new shop they want a lot more from you in terms of business plans, financial statements and so on.


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## cuttinscott (Feb 13, 2009)

spike60 said:


> We *** dealers have one strength that should not be overlooked. Even in good times, people don't usually buy our stuff unless there is a genuine need. A guy doesn't buy a lawn tractor until the old one croaks. Same for saws, excepting CAD of course. It has always been a need based business. And it has always been more dependent on the weather than the economy. A drought scares me way more than the recession can. The only concern I have this year is getting retail finance approvals on the big ticket stuff like the Exmarks. I do know of a few shops that are genuinely worried, but these are bigger places with lot's of overhead, lot's of employees, etc. I know one guy who built a $900,000 show place 2 years ago, and he's pretty nervous. Dumb thing is he has a great business and really didn't need that two story monument. It has to be an ego thing.
> 
> If we get the weather, most of us will be OK. All of the work that needs to be done with our equipment will still have to be done one way or the other regardless of the economy. Grass still has to be mowed, snow still has to be moved, and wood still has to be cut. Saw wise, the economy has actually hepled us with a renewed interest in wood burning. Like anything, there can be exceptions to this logic. A saw only shop that is primarily focused on pros can be hurt real bad if the local timber industry shuts down. And I'm sure there are other examples.
> 
> ...



But Spike AS members want dealers that are saw only shops..... Well here in NY with the overhead and taxes we have to pay we need grass and snow business as well so saws are kinda a sideline business but we still treat it like a mainline it just does not really pay the bills lol..



Scott


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## belgian (Feb 13, 2009)

Lakeside53 said:


> Around here.. new sales are dead, but interestingly, so is service. Homeowners are hunkered down.. not cutting, not spending. Pro repair sit on the shelf - they aren't picking thme up so they aren't workig much either... One pro tells me he doesn't need all his saws now as he's only running with one additional guy instead of 7.. Another came in and sold all his "broken" saws to us - 15 years of saws that had quit for one reason or another and were tossed onto the back of his shop...




Well, things are not looking much better at this side of the pond. I believe most shops are struggling to pay the bills at the moment, as consumer consumption has really slowed down in january and february. There's not a day that goes by without some major company announcing having to lay off people, and the federal bank announced this week that 2009 will become a very tough year. America is just a little ahead of europe, so I think the worst over here has still to come. Our top 3 banks in Belgium are facing big liquidity problems due to high risk financial products linked with the american housing mortgages. Our government is trying to bail them out, but their capabilities are limited, so there's still a lot of uncertainty around. I think once the government will be able to stabilize the financial world, we will then only be able to climb slowly out of this vicious circle of people not spending.

Just hang in tight... and your business will come out stronger probably !


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## Woodie (Feb 13, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Stihl has gotten picky where new dealerships are located.



So you mean they will no longer be allowed to open new dealerships...in the bathrooms of existing dealerships?






.


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## cuttinscott (Feb 13, 2009)

Woodie said:


> So you mean they will no longer be allowed to open new dealerships...in the bathrooms of existing dealerships?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



isnt that what their doing with john deere??????


Scott


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## bookerdog (Feb 13, 2009)

Woodie said:


> So you mean they will no longer be allowed to open new dealerships...in the bathrooms of existing dealerships?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just like starbucks LOL


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## Brad101 (Feb 13, 2009)

cuttinscott said:


> But Spike AS members want dealers that are saw only shops..... Well here in NY with the overhead and taxes we have to pay we need grass and snow business as well so saws are kinda a sideline business but we still treat it like a mainline it just does not really pay the bills lol..
> 
> 
> 
> Scott



No kidding Scott. If I had it my way I would never work on a lawnmower. I would only repair handheld power equipment. The truth is though the lawnmowers really do pay the bills..


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## cuttinscott (Feb 13, 2009)

Brad101 said:


> No kidding Scott. If I had it my way I would never work on a lawnmower. I would only repair handheld power equipment. The truth is though the lawnmowers really do pay the bills..



That being said I DO NOT WORK ON CONSUMER MOWERS. No money to be made in that market. All the mowers we sell and repair are commercial grade. Ventrac, Ferris, eXmark........


Scott


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## Woodie (Feb 13, 2009)

Woodie said:


> So you mean they will no longer be allowed to open new dealerships...in the bathrooms of existing dealerships?





cuttinscott said:


> isnt that what their doing with john deere??????



It's pretty bad here in the D...I went through a McDonalds yesteday, ordered a burger and a Coke. The guy goes "You want a 361 with that?"





.


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## belgian (Feb 13, 2009)

Woodie said:


> It's pretty bad here in the D...I went through a McDonalds yesteday, ordered a burger and a Coke. The guy goes "You want a 361 with that?"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 I see Thall loading his gun right now...


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## cuttinscott (Feb 13, 2009)

Woodie said:


> It's pretty bad here in the D...I went through a McDonalds yesteday, ordered a burger and a Coke. The guy goes "You want a 361 with that?"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I tried to rep ya for that LOL



Scott


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## Woodie (Feb 13, 2009)

belgian said:


> I see Thall loading his gun right now...



In that case I should call his local emergency room and let them know they're about to have a guy with a shot-up foot any second now.





.


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## 04ultra (Feb 13, 2009)

Woodie load your stuff up in your Chrysler mini van and hit the road ....Im still in need of a collections guy ...





.


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## windthrown (Feb 13, 2009)

cuttinscott said:


> isnt that what their doing with john deere??????
> 
> Scott



Well, that would be one hellofa bathroom at the JD dealer here. Stihl got the main segment of the JD sales floor, along with Honda mowers. Its more like a casino bathroom in Vegas. All with a hottie blonde casheer to smile at you as well. Beat that! 

Husky is teamed up with the Kubota dealer here as well, about a mile away. Not quite as large, but they have the whole Husky line (they used to just have a partial pro lineup of saws there). No Dolmar dealers to be seen though. Not even an outhouse for them to sell in around here. :monkey:


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## weimedog (Feb 13, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> Pretty much same old same old as far as local business goes. We'll see how the summer goes. They say that the economy has always been so bad here that we may not notice much.



Simply because New York has been in recession for years. Interestingly enough my bet is those in our state fare better than those in the growth states of the last few years...

Also as much as we may not like it, New York will benifit from the Dem's Sim package proportionally more than some of the growth states...

And the push for alternative energy will help the southern tier as the Marcellas Shale formation extends up into NYS

Last but not least...agriculture. Western NYS still has many farms ..inherited vs. purchased. People still need food. They aren't going anywhere.

You also service the CAD comunity and Vintage CAD in particular, my bet is Vintage CAD is an affliction of the older and more established in the saw comunity.....ebay is the "loss leader" source of project saws, people like you sell the bits and pieces to get them going again...at normal and reasonable margins as things should be.


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## weimedog (Feb 13, 2009)

funky sawman; said:


> I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder--- even the one I own that ran of 100ll av gas--pieces of crap in my opinion and dolmar would not even honer the warrantys!!!! .





funky sawman said:


> I feel really bad about this whole thing. I talked my boss into selling dolmars over a year ago but they let me down and that gives me a bad name from my leader's eyes. I have also told many customers the dolmar was the saw to buy; over the huskys that we sell and have been selling for over 35 years. I really liked dolmar as they ran very smooth and had awsome acceration. Mag power is the main one to blame I guess as they would not support our end of the buisness. I am not meaning to say EVERY dolmar is junk because even I have owned a few good ones. If dolmar had a better distributer, mabie it would reflect problems to Dolmar Germany for review and repair.



Problem is, for a company like Dolmar to get a hold on a market, they first have to win over either a series of professional types or some true enthusiasts first. Some dealer has to hang it out to make this happen. Then their success stories build mythology over time to build a sence of "ease of mind" of those who are thinking of an "off brand" vs. a Husqvarna 346XP or Stihl MS250...or even the Echo and Jonsered brands.

This is a harsh market reality when a company needs to penetrate a mature market or even grow within a mature market.

These series of postings relative to the PS5100s will be seen around the world and many who look to Dolmar as an option will pass by here. These will also show up with search engines as potential customers research a purchase desision...they have impact!

Dolmar can either ignore this type of thing or turn it into a positive. Most marketing types of the old school try and ignore the impact of things like enthusiast website postings....lets see what Dolmar does.

Where ever there is contraversy there is opportunity..lets say, hypothetically; this turns out to be as simple as a problem with the carb and how it reacts when exposed to pressure changes disrupted by a dirty air filter or some other goofy engineering issue where solutions can be a retrofit..they bite the bullet and recall under warrentee..the commotion can be cast as a positive, if done right....left to the internet gauntlet the same issue will be cast as inferior or engineering issues based on a small pro customer foot print and dealer feedback...So Dolmar you have a issue to deal with. The wrong approach would be to ignore it and let the dealers fight your battle...at their expense both in customer trust and dollars.

And funky..did you actually sell 50 Dolmars? Does your Dolmar distributer know this story? How about Dolmar Germany? Are they aware of your case?

I hope this gets resolves as I happen to LIKE the Dolmar guts to put a "Hot Rod" saw in the market place..its a gutsey move and if they work we all win. I would hate to see this stop them or others from taking that angle to marketing.


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## windthrown (Feb 13, 2009)

Well, the AS segment of the global chainsaw market is probably only about 1/2 of 1%. Maybe less. But the issue with Dolmar is that outside of this exposure, no one here has heard of them. Makita? Yes. Dolmar? No.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

Woodie said:


> So you mean they will no longer be allowed to open new dealerships...in the bathrooms of existing dealerships?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not sure, you wanting to open a dealership, we will rent you our bathroom, 400.00 a square foot, WEEKLY,hehe


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## weimedog (Feb 13, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Well, the AS segment of the global chainsaw market is probably only about 1/2 of 1%. Maybe less. But the issue with Dolmar is that outside of this exposure, no one here has heard of them. Makita? Yes. Dolmar? No.



Maybe...probably..but that last line defines the "toe hold" of a new market.

And...

What percentage of potential dealers pass thru here and what percentage of prospective buyers do research online and will find this? What percentage of those potential "advocates" who hawk these type of boards pass thru here?

If I'm Dolmar, I certainly hope your premis is right..this is of little impact. Note that I have seen similar threads at the other big Forestry oriented site as well.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

cuttinscott said:


> isnt that what their doing with john deere??????
> 
> 
> Scott



Ewwwwwwwwww that was low so I'll have to raise you one. If Dolmar could have got in JD's doors they may have sold enuff to pay Stihl's electric bill,LOL

( i couldn't resist,haha)


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## windthrown (Feb 13, 2009)

weimedog said:


> Maybe...probably..but that last line defines the "toe hold" of a new market.
> 
> And...
> 
> ...



Probably still less than 1/2 of one percent. I had saws, trimmers and most of my tree falling stuff before I came here. I was already a StihlHead. I developed a real bad case of 361 feaver since joining AS though. Real bad CAD too. Also, even knowing about Dolmar from this site has not helped me find any locally. I have very actively looked for the 350, 420, 5100s, and 7900 saws in the PNW. Impossible to find one on any shelf from the Vancouver, WA to Grants Pass, OR. 

Makita does indeed give Dolmar a hold on the market. But I bet that 99% of Makita chainsaw renters at Home Depot do not know what DCS stands for on a Makita saw. Nor do they care. I find it funny that HD will rent Makita DCS saws and sell them used, but not new. So they are also an edge away from being big box store sold. They sell Poulan too, and that is Husky's low end. Or is Husky the high end of Poulan? I am not sure. Husky seems to have found a big box store and dedicated store sales ballance. Service availability for them is light compared to Stihl though. But there are several Husky stores to be found here. Gobs of Stihl stores. Again, narray a Dolmar shingle to be seen.


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## windthrown (Feb 13, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Ewwwwwwwwww that was low so I'll have to raise you one. If Dolmar could have got in JD's doors they may have sold enuff to pay Stihl's electric bill,LOL
> 
> ( i couldn't resist,haha)



A Borat HIGH FIVE for you Tommy!


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## Termite (Feb 13, 2009)

I have three good, stocking Dolmar dealers within 50miles of me. One good Husky dealer. Around here all of the Stihl dealers would rather sell tractors.


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## weimedog (Feb 13, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Probably still less than 1/2 of one percent. I had saws, trimmers and most of my tree falling stuff before I came here. I was already a StihlHead. I developed a real bad case of 361 feaver since joining AS though. Real bad CAD too. Also, even knowing about Dolmar from this site has not helped me find any locally. I have very actively looked for the 350, 420, 5100s, and 7900 saws in the PNW. Impossible to find one on any shelf from the Vancouver, WA to Grants Pass, OR.
> 
> Makita does indeed give Dolmar a hold on the market. But I bet that 99% of Makita chainsaw renters at Home Depot do not know what DCS stands for on a Makita saw. Nor do they care. I find it funny that HD will rent Makita DCS saws and sell them used, but not new. So they are also an edge away from being big box store sold. They sell Poulan too, and that is Husky's low end. Or is Husky the high end of Poulan? I am not sure. Husky seems to have found a big box store and dedicated store sales ballance. Service availability for them is light compared to Stihl though. But there are several Husky stores to be found here. Gobs of Stihl stores. Again, narray a Dolmar shingle to be seen.



I guess if the PNW or at least the area you are working represent the entire saw world..then I guess you would be a good reference point.

I happen to have three Dolmar dealers within 50 miles, two within 20. So I guess the PNW doesn't represent the entire world! Maybe your sample is..local..not global. Not saying Dolmar is a power player..just saying you can speak for your area of the country, not the entire saw world.

So....how many "Pro Saws" do you think are sold per year..in the Western world?

How many members are there on this site alone? I also wonder how many guests breeze through without signing up.,,my bet is many time more than the actual signed members.

I think you underestimate the impact of a place such as this and those like them. These place have emense exposure.


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## windthrown (Feb 13, 2009)

Well, from the feedback that I have gotten (and I have gotten a lot), the PNW is not the only region severly lacking when it comes to Dolmar dealers. I think that your having several Dolmar dealers that choose to you is a rarity. _Do you think that your situation represents the entire world?_ New York and Indiana and Wisconsin seem to be exceptions to this. Also from the amout of Dolmars that people have gotten through the mail here on AS, one would conclude that there is a gap in availability. Also, there is the Dolmar distributor for the entire PNW region and Alaska not more than 20 miles from me here. You would think with that being the case, one could get a larger or newer model Dolmar saw in this metro area bigger than a PS 341. But it just ain't so.


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## 04ultra (Feb 13, 2009)

Windthorp ..


I have a Solo dealer really close to me ...

Besides the Solos dealer cost is more than a 7900 sells for ......I guess Im not ordering them ....



.


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## weimedog (Feb 13, 2009)

My point is the all sections of the world have access to this forum (Global Impact)..not just the PNW or CNY (regional). I also understand a dealers world is...local unless he does what? Uses the internet. My old world (Motorcycle) had another forum..magazines...that reached both endusers and industry types. There really isn't one for this world..Just a few industry specific publications.

Since Dolmar is a small company relative to the rest of the world...this type of forum can make an impact.

Thats my point. Simple as that. No more. No less. I completely reject the notion that what happened on these forums makes no difference.


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## 04ultra (Feb 13, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Solo? :monkey:
> 
> I heard that Jabba the Hut was looking for him. :spam:



Ya ......Out of the 10 ...681 sold in the USA Ive read about 2 with bad cranks .......Thats another reason Im not ordering any ...


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## windthrown (Feb 13, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Windthorp ..
> 
> 
> I have a Solo dealer really close to me ...
> ...



Solo? :monkey:

I heard that Jabba the Hut was looking for him. :spam:

Maybe do a Geico type ad at the Dolmar shop? 

_That's the money you could be saving with Dolmar! _


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## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

weimedog said:


> I guess if the PNW or at least the area you are working represent the entire saw world..then I guess you would be a good reference point.
> 
> I happen to have three Dolmar dealers within 50 miles, two within 20. So I guess the PNW doesn't represent the entire world! Maybe your sample is..local..not global. Not saying Dolmar is a power player..just saying you can speak for your area of the country, not the entire saw world.
> 
> ...



You are dead wrong. Do you really think the average buyer that just wants a saw is going to come here and read all this BS, no way. The hardcore saw junkies on this site is so small compared to the full buying public its a joke. Pro saws aren't the big sellers in the USA, the homeowner saws are by a huge margin. If saw companies had to rely on pro saw sales alone they would all be out of business. The true pros that use saws for a living in the USA market have cut the market to two brands, Stihl and Husky. Dolmar isn't even considered a player by the two big boys, thats a fact. 

You say you know marketing. You have to know to the average buyer of chainsaws, the biggest market in the USA, could care less about chainsaws or this site. They want a saw, not a bunch hardcore saw junkies telling them what to buy. The biggest part of the buying saw market in the USA , the homeowner market, consider saw junkies ignorant for thier love of chainsaws, they don't understand it and think its stupid for a man to own 20 saws. The manufactures know this as well. This is the last place a average saw buyer is going to come for saw info.

To prove my point do you see anyone from Dolmar coming in here to chim in on this thread, no. I've never seen anyone from Husky come in when a bad thread is about their saws and I have never seen anyone from Stihl come in when a bad thread is going on about their saws. They could all care less about the junkie saw crowd. In fact these companies despise the kinda non-sense that takes place on these sites. Who's lying, who's telling the truth, who's bias, who's not, nothing more than a AOL chatroom where you can say anything. People aren't stupid, they know what takes place on these forums are 90% bias BS. The saw manufactures know it too. 

You are correct however that this site is seen around the world but not by the majority of the buying public but mostly by saw junkies, the tiny small crowd in the big world of chainsaw buyers..


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## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Ya ......Out of the 10 ...681 sold in the USA Ive read about 2 with bad cranks .......Thats another reason Im not ordering any ...



What are you doing on the site, your suppose to be "upstairs busy",LOL


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## mrpotatohead (Feb 13, 2009)

If I wanted a Dolmar, and in some ways I do, I personally wouldn't let the input I found here influence my decision. Cause 50 saws, not 51, 2, 3, or 40-something, an even 50 saws have scored cylinders. Also what has caused this? If there were 50 out of 50 bad saws from a dealer, even a lousy distributor would be all over the situation trying to find an answer as to why this many saws are failing. If they are ignoring the problem, then I could only expect they'd be going out of business soon. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling anyone a liar, but for a global company to go on ignoring a problem of this caliber can be a bit risky. I personally would start asking the dealer what type of oil they are selling their customers, and get some some for myself for testing.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

mrpotatohead said:


> If I wanted a Dolmar, and in some ways I do, I personally wouldn't let the input I found here influence my decision. Cause 50 saws, not 51, 2, 3, or 40-something, an even 50 saws have scored cylinders. Also what has caused this? If there were 50 out of 50 bad saws from a dealer, even a lousy distributor would be all over the situation trying to find an answer as to why this many saws are failing. If they are ignoring the problem, then I could only expect they'd be going out of business soon.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling anyone a liar, but for a global company to go on ignoring a problem of this caliber can be a bit risky. I personally would start asking the dealer what type of oil they are selling their customers, and get some some for myself for testing.



Whats really odd is Dolmar sold over 550,000 units last year. 50 of them burnt up at one dealer. If I called Stihl and said I got 50 fried saws here they would do two things. They would compare my failure rate with all their other dealers who aren't reporting the same failures. They would then pay me a visit, mostly likely to load up their product for lying my azz off to them....


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## funky sawman (Feb 13, 2009)

Like you said Im up here in sawpoint IDAHO "the burmudia triangle for saws"
The oil we use is dolmar syn and husky semi syn.


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## funky sawman (Feb 13, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Whats really odd is Dolmar sold over 550,000 units last year. 50 of them burnt up at one dealer. If I called Stihl and said I got 50 fried saws here they would do two things. They would compare my failure rate with all their other dealers who aren't reporting the same failures. They would then pay me a visit, mostly likely to load up their product for lying my azz off to them....



Paint coming off crankcases of never ran saws is NOT my fault. I can go into a new dolmar and chip the paint away with my fingernail NO kidding.


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## Freudor (Feb 13, 2009)

weimedog said:


> I guess if the PNW or at least the area you are working represent the entire saw world..then I guess you would be a good reference point.
> 
> I happen to have three Dolmar dealers within 50 miles, two within 20. So I guess the PNW doesn't represent the entire world! Maybe your sample is..local..not global. Not saying Dolmar is a power player..just saying you can speak for your area of the country, not the entire saw world.
> 
> ...




It's kind of ironic that I would have bought a Dolmar 5100, over my Husky 353, had I found this site a few months ago. I am glad now that I got that little 353. The thing is great, by far the best saw for the size I have ever seen and best combination of features at it's weight, price and performance.

Had a little buyers remorse before reading this thread. Not any more.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> Paint coming off crankcases of never ran saws is NOT my fault. I can go into a new dolmar and chip the paint away with my fingernail NO kidding.



Yes I recall you saying that. I gotta ask you right out. When you had these 50 failures did Dolmar send anyone to your shop to see these failures??


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## funky sawman (Feb 13, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Yes I recall you saying that. I gotta ask you right out. When you had these 50 failures did Dolmar send anyone to your shop to see these failures??



I asked them to come to my shop and all the distributer said is "We can't afford that" Then I begged them for help but mag power just kept saying "nobody else is having these problems"
Then mag power said we would be the offical test site in the PNW for testing new product, so I was all excited but that never went through. I asked for some special crank tools but never got them. Mag power kept saying, fix the customers saw or give them a new one. BUT the warranty claims still havent been paid for 6 months later after being approved by mag power. The saws that had paint coming off the crankcase got sent back to dolmar (terry green) but they swear it's the ethonal causing the paint to chip!!! I constantly test our and our customers gas for ethonal but never found more than 10%. I would love to get closure with the problems that dolmar has , I already know it's not my improper diagnoses as their is more than I in our shop that has many years of 2 stroke mechanics under the belt. Willy the senior mechanic, cut timber for 40 years and been working on saws for 50 years.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 13, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I asked them to come to my shop and all the distributer said is "We can't afford that" Then I begged them for help but mag power just kept saying "nobody else is having these problems"
> Then mag power said we would be the offical test site in the PNW for testing new product, so I was all excited but that never went through. I asked for some special crank tools but never got them. Mag power kept saying, fix the customers saw or give them a new one. BUT the warranty claims still havent been paid for 6 months later after being approved by mag power. The saws that had paint coming off the crankcase got sent back to dolmar (terry green) but they swear it's the ethonal causing the paint to chip!!! I constantly test our and our customers gas for ethonal but never found more than 10%. I would love to get closure with the problems that dolmar has , I already know it's not my improper diagnoses as their is more than I in our shop that has many years of 2 stroke mechanics under the belt. Willy the senior mechanic, cut timber for 40 years and been working on saws for 50 years.




Well I gotta tell ya Funky thats not the industry standard by a long shot. At Stihl they have a simple system. If I ordered 20 361's and reported 5 failures on them Stihl would be at my door to see those saws. Why, I've reported more than a 10% failure rate. Any rate over 10% will have the boys coming to visit because thats 9.3% more than the average across the board. When one dealer is reporting alot of failures and others aren't on the same product Stihl wants to know what the hell is going on. As for Dolmar I don't know what system they use but from what your saying they have no system at all and thats very very odd.

When the new BR backpack blowers first came out from Stihl dealers started reporting valve problems. They were calling in way above 10% failures on the units they had bought. The thing was it wasn't just one dealer, it was many many dealers all over the country. Stihl sent their own tech staff to go see these blowers and replace valves themselves on site. The dealers that didn't sell many were notified of the problem and to be aware of whats going on. Thats how issues are supposed to be handled by the distributors..


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## Metals406 (Feb 14, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I asked them to come to my shop and all the distributer said is "We can't afford that" Then I begged them for help but mag power just kept saying "nobody else is having these problems"
> Then mag power said we would be the offical test site in the PNW for testing new product, so I was all excited but that never went through. I asked for some special crank tools but never got them. Mag power kept saying, fix the customers saw or give them a new one. BUT the warranty claims still havent been paid for 6 months later after being approved by mag power. The saws that had paint coming off the crankcase got sent back to dolmar (terry green) but they swear it's the ethonal causing the paint to chip!!! I constantly test our and our customers gas for ethonal but never found more than 10%. I would love to get closure with the problems that dolmar has , I already know it's not my improper diagnoses as their is more than I in our shop that has many years of 2 stroke mechanics under the belt. Willy the senior mechanic, cut timber for 40 years and been working on saws for 50 years.



That sounds about par... I get the impression that both Mag Power and the distributer here, don't make a lot of money dealing with Dolmar. So what does that do? They don't support the dealers the way they should, they don't focus on problems the way they should... I even have doubts they report back problems to Dolmar Corp the way they should. The answer you were given to your problem was "stop selling the 5100's", instead of "We'll get Dolmar Corp on this right away, testing new batches for the paint problem, using Ethanol fuel." A local repair shop here is having Ethanol fuel issues with the black tanks on Honda equipment... The fuel is eating the inside of the tanks, and it's plugging the fuel system up.




THALL10326 said:


> Well I gotta tell ya Funky thats not the industry standard by a long shot. At Stihl they have a simple system. If I ordered 20 361's and reported 5 failures on them Stihl would be at my door to see those saws. Why, I've reported more than a 10% failure rate. Any rate over 10% will have the boys coming to visit because thats 9.3% more than the average across the board. When one dealer is reporting alot of failures and others aren't on the same product Stihl wants to know what the hell is going on. As for Dolmar I don't know what system they use but from what your saying they have no system at all and thats very very odd.
> 
> When the new BR backpack blowers first came out from Stihl dealers started reporting valve problems. They were calling in way above 10% failures on the units they had bought. The thing was it wasn't just one dealer, it was many many dealers all over the country. Stihl sent their own tech staff to go see these blowers and replace valves themselves on site. The dealers that didn't sell many were notified of the problem and to be aware of whats going on. Thats how issues are supposed to be handled by the distributors..



Stihl is definitely working hard to treat their dealers better than Dolmar... But Stihl makes more money in the US than Dolmar... A little catch 22.

I think if Dolmar spent the kind of money on advertising that Stihl does, dealer support improvements would follow. 

Dolmar Timbersports competitions, magazine advertisements, more print as a whole... If they got the word out better, they would get more market share.


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## Brad101 (Feb 14, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> You are dead wrong. Do you really think the average buyer that just wants a saw is going to come here and read all this BS, no way. The hardcore saw junkies on this site is so small compared to the full buying public its a joke. Pro saws aren't the big sellers in the USA, the homeowner saws are by a huge margin. If saw companies had to rely on pro saw sales alone they would all be out of business. The true pros that use saws for a living in the USA market have cut the market to two brands, Stihl and Husky. Dolmar isn't even considered a player by the two big boys, thats a fact.
> 
> You say you know marketing. You have to know to the average buyer of chainsaws, the biggest market in the USA, could care less about chainsaws or this site. They want a saw, not a bunch hardcore saw junkies telling them what to buy. The biggest part of the buying saw market in the USA , the homeowner market, consider saw junkies ignorant for thier love of chainsaws, they don't understand it and think its stupid for a man to own 20 saws. The manufactures know this as well. This is the last place a average saw buyer is going to come for saw info.
> 
> ...



:yourock::agree2: You are exactly right


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## SawTroll (Feb 14, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Yes I recall you saying that. I gotta ask you right out. When you had these 50 failures did Dolmar send anyone to your shop to see these failures??



I still don't understand how you have the stomac to sell MS290s, when the 280 is out there.....


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## windthrown (Feb 14, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> I still don't understand how you have the stomac to sell MS290s, when the 280 is out there.....



You are just proving Tommy right about his post, that no one listens to any saw junkies on AS. Be they the saw companies, or the typical buyers. The MS290 is the NUMBER ONE $ELLING $tihl chain$aw. 

Marketing rule #1: never, ever mess with the golden goose as long as she is laying golden eggs (unless the EPA forces you to).


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## windthrown (Feb 14, 2009)

One point I would also add to Tommy's essay is that the big saw companies do not advertize here. Seemingly with exception of Jonsered, they do not see a big enough market here to bother with us. If we as a group had any kind of influence what-so-ever, they would be here.


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## Lakeside53 (Feb 14, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> I still don't understand how you have the stomac to sell MS290s, when the 280 is out there.....



what Windy said,,, and.. PRICE! The 290 is cheaper....


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## THALL10326 (Feb 14, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> I still don't understand how you have the stomac to sell MS290s, when the 280 is out there.....



Now why you say that, the 290 is about as trouble free as any saw made. True its on the heavy side for the power it puts out. True it has very little in way of a vibration system or super clean filtration system but but my friend, guess what, the people that buy it aren't into chainsaws at all. They just want a saw and some service behind it. The rest they could care less about. 

Many buyers can't jusify the cost of a 280 over a 290 because they just want a saw, the rest doesn't matter to them. The sales of the 290 over the years proves beyond a shadow of doubt a chainsaw to most people is a tool and nothing more. They aren't like us SawTroll. Must always remember in the big picture we saw nuts like you and me are such a small crowd we don't really even count anymore. There was a time when pro's lead the field but not anymore. Times have change and to survive in todays market you gotta build what the biggest portion of the saw buyers want and most saw buyers don't want a pro chainsaw, they rather have a plain Jane 290. The overwhelming proof is in the numbers. Among the big three, Stihl, Husky and Dolmar, saw to saw no saw outsells the 290 in the USA, the biggest chainsaw market in the world. The cheap Poulans may outsell it which once again proves homeowners rule the saw market here nowdays, not the pro's.

Finally and foremost the failure rate on the 290 based on how many is sold is as good as any pro saw outthere, thats saying quite alot considering the type of people using the 290

Now come on over and pick up this shiny 290, I got it all shined up for ya and for you only 369.95,LOLOL


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## schroedogg (Feb 14, 2009)

> You are dead wrong. Do you really think the average buyer that just wants a saw is going to come here and read all this BS, no way.



Thought I'd chime back in again. I didn't realize the can of worms I'd be opening in starting this thread!! 

I may not be like the average customer but I'm by no means a chainsaw fanatic. In fact, this Dolmar 5100 is the first saw that I've purchased (always borrowed others in the past). If I ever make a big purchase I almost always research it first on the Internet. If I see a bunch of bad reviews, I avoid the product. Well, when I decided to get my own chainsaw, I started doing a little searching for a good saw in the 50cc range. It did not take long at all for my searches to lead here (a site I'd never heard of) and I began to read all the raving about the 5100, which was just the size I was looking for and had a pretty good price. I then tried to search for problems with the 5100 and at the time couldn't really find much except maybe a few people who it seems may have been misusing the saw. If I had found a thread like this back then, I most likely would have been concerned enough to avoid the Dolmar and just go with a Stihl or possibly Husky. I think there may be more and more people like me out there. It's so easy to get on Google and look up product reviews. And I often find that I can learn a lot more on-line than from a salesperson, who generally is looking out for their own bottom-line first.

At any rate, I have the saw back now and realized that I really do like cutting with this saw. It's the perfect size and it can really cut. We cut up an old elm today and it worked great for everything from limbing to cutting through the bigger 2'-3' diameter pieces. I guess I'm hoping that the problem came from the mixture running too lean and that by setting it richer and just making sure the saw isn't getting to hot I won't have that problem again. If this is the case, I'd probably be more upset with the EPA than with Dolmar. Maybe we could make a new T-shirt: Save the Environment -- Burn up your engine!


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## rahtreelimbs (Feb 14, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> I still don't understand how you have the stomac to sell MS290s, when the 280 is out there.....



Better that they buy a 290 than walking out the door for a wildthing!!!


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## Javelin (Feb 14, 2009)

353 husky is a good saw but I would take the 5100 over it! By the way I am still wanting those burnt up dolmar saws at $50 each! I just need to know were to send the check:greenchainsaw:


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## 04ultra (Feb 14, 2009)

Javelin said:


> 353 husky is a good saw but I would take the 5100 over it! By the way I am still wanting those burnt up dolmar saws at $50 each! I just need to know were to send the check:greenchainsaw:



Make the check out too me .......I'll see he gets it ....LOL






.


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## Javelin (Feb 14, 2009)

But will I ever see the saws:monkey:


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## 04ultra (Feb 14, 2009)

Javelin said:


> But will I ever see the saws:monkey:



You think I will.............





.


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## Javelin (Feb 14, 2009)

I think we are both on the same page on this one


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## Brian VT (Feb 14, 2009)

schroedogg said:


> I may not be like the average customer but I'm by no means a chainsaw fanatic. In fact, this Dolmar 5100 is the first saw that I've purchased...
> 
> I'd probably be more upset with the EPA than with Dolmar. Maybe we could make a new T-shirt: Save the Environment -- Burn up your engine!



Same story here, except mine hasn't burnt up. I've seen what the EPA has done to off-road motorcycles. The 4-strokes are so choked up (lean) from the factory that it's rediculous. I have a tee shirt that's kinda obnoxious to most folks. "Forget the whales. Save the 2-strokes !" LOL
Enjoy your screamer. I am.
I'm just Joe Homeowner but I've learned the hard lessons of buying cheap chit. Thanks to the 'net I ended up here and read about what a good saw is before going the HD route.


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## 103scooter (Feb 14, 2009)

You would think with all these problems with a 5100 we would have seen some around here. There are alot of them in this area, 50 or so is my guess probably more. My brother and I have several. But a *newbie* putting bar oil in the gas tank I believe was the only problem encountered with any of them. Hard to blame the saw for that one.




.


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## volks-man (Feb 14, 2009)

Javelin said:


> By the way I am still wanting those burnt up dolmar saws at $50 each! I just need to know were to send the check:greenchainsaw:





04ultra said:


> Make the check out too me .......I'll see he gets it ....LOL





Javelin said:


> But will I ever see the saws:monkey:





04ultra said:


> You think I will.............





Javelin said:


> I think we are both on the same page on this one



:agree2: opcorn:


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## Justsaws (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> 353 husky is a good saw but I would take the 5100 over it! By the way I am still wanting those burnt up dolmar saws at $50 each! I just need to know were to send the check:greenchainsaw:



Try $200.00 and you will get more responses. Same for the 346s.

Are there any burnt supposedly "Pro" saws that you would not buy for $50.00.

How about this, any burnt pro saws you get in get posted here for $50.00.

If you are going to be cheap, then you might as well ask for free, that is what Dolmar seems to do.

What does a new gas tank go for on a 5100? How about all the other parts off the saw.

Dolmar is circling the wagons around there own demise, again. Different decade, different personal, same crap service and same crap distribution. Will not be long before reconditioned ones hit Odd Lots and the truck sales.
Shame really as they can make a good saw just wish they would get the company some legitimate reps. and management.


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## bcorradi (Feb 15, 2009)

I agree with JustSaws.....I believe they make an on par product compared to the others, but their infrastructure is severely lacking. I'm the proud owner of two new dolmar hats sent to me by a higher up in Dolmar...while a buddy of mine, who was a dolmar dealer, wasn't able to get any marketing merchandise after several attempts. He is also still waiting to be paid for warranty work. Just for the record...I do not currently own an dolmar saws and I have never purchased any new dolmar saws.


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## Javelin (Feb 15, 2009)

Well what you guys are saying about dolmar being crap and no service just does not fly here! They have been outstanding and I have had no troubles getting all of my dolmars fixed which when it comes to the 5100 has only been two saws! Both of those saws were customer related destruction and they being dolmar backed those saws when they really should not have! If they are junk saws and there are all these 5100's and everything blown up I would give $50 for your Junk Dolmars! I think that a lot of us on here are having a hard time with all the numbers of junk saws!


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## volks-man (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> Well what you guys are saying about dolmar being crap and no service just does not fly here! They have been outstanding and I have had no troubles getting all of my dolmars fixed which when it comes to the 5100 has only been two saws! Both of those saws were customer related destruction and they being dolmar backed those saws when they really should not have! If they are junk saws and there are all these 5100's and everything blown up I would give $50 for your Junk Dolmars! I think that a lot of us on here are having a hard time with all the numbers of junk saws!



:agree2:


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## SawTroll (Feb 15, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> I still don't understand how you have the stomac to sell MS290s, when the 280 is out there.....





windthrown said:


> You are just proving Tommy right about his post, that no one listens to any saw junkies on AS. Be they the saw companies, or the typical buyers. The MS290 is the NUMBER ONE $ELLING $tihl chain$aw.
> 
> Marketing rule #1: never, ever mess with the golden goose as long as she is laying golden eggs (unless the EPA forces you to).





Lakeside53 said:


> what Windy said,,, and.. PRICE! The 290 is cheaper....





THALL10326 said:


> Now why you say that, the 290 is about as trouble free as any saw made. True its on the heavy side for the power it puts out. True it has very little in way of a vibration system or super clean filtration system but but my friend, guess what, the people that buy it aren't into chainsaws at all. They just want a saw and some service behind it. The rest they could care less about.
> 
> Many buyers can't jusify the cost of a 280 over a 290 because they just want a saw, the rest doesn't matter to them. The sales of the 290 over the years proves beyond a shadow of doubt a chainsaw to most people is a tool and nothing more. They aren't like us SawTroll. Must always remember in the big picture we saw nuts like you and me are such a small crowd we don't really even count anymore. There was a time when pro's lead the field but not anymore. Times have change and to survive in todays market you gotta build what the biggest portion of the saw buyers want and most saw buyers don't want a pro chainsaw, they rather have a plain Jane 290. The overwhelming proof is in the numbers. Among the big three, Stihl, Husky and Dolmar, saw to saw no saw outsells the 290 in the USA, the biggest chainsaw market in the world. The cheap Poulans may outsell it which once again proves homeowners rule the saw market here nowdays, not the pro's.
> 
> ...





rahtreelimbs said:


> Better that they buy a 290 than walking out the door for a wildthing!!!




Sure, I know - just had to make the point......


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## weimedog (Feb 15, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> You are dead wrong. Do you really think the average buyer that just wants a saw is going to come here and read all this BS, no way. ..blah...blah.... The true pros that use saws for a living in the USA market have cut the market to two brands, Stihl and Husky. Dolmar isn't even considered a player by the two big boys, thats a fact.
> 
> You say you know marketing. ...blah...blah.
> 
> ...



Seems from the follow on comments and from my own example there is a tangible impact to these threads to the "Homeowner Types" as well. For that matter I would suggest that these sites are growing the "enthusiast/ CAD junkies" population. I came here four or so years ago when trying to decide what "mid-sized" saw to buy...I ended up with a 365 husky and a real bad case of CAD! I'm typical of the current trend among most HOMEOWNER type buyers. If they don't have a clear understanding, and the size of the purchase makes a dent on your budget; they research that purchase. The internet is the prime driver here. 

Marketing? I have lived thru and been a part the transition from European Motocross race motorcycles to the Japanese domination of all forms of racing..and watched KTM & Ducati muscle in now with tried and true tactics. I have been in that motorsports business myself. I've also lived thru and been a part of the rise AND fall of the major Cad/Cam companies of the 1970's and 1980. I was a part of the effort to drive the cost down and funtionallity up of the companies that TOOK down the big guys. A very integral part I might add. Life experience is a wonderful thing. So now I really enjoy saws..and guess what..Now I can sit on the side lines with no skin in the game and OBJECTIVELY watch history repeat itself yet again. You can't.

I certainly understand how things change and how to effect change. I also understand Pro saws, like racing motorcycles may make a smaller percentage of a companies sales than home owner sales BUT they are a business unto themselves or they wouldn't exist AND they CAN (But not always) be a sales image leader as with Husqvarna/Honda/Stihl/Suzuki/KTM. Key to market success in racing and probably Pro Saw's, is performance, reliability, and results first, then a strong loyal following (both dealers and customers) that can be referenced to grow market share. Many times a company breaking in will focus on a small area and market to "get it right" before going national. (KTM & Enduro/offroad)

Back to the point. The internet has changed the marketing game as it is a low cost way of spreading the message FAST, right to the place where those looking want that info. AT home. AND more people, especially the HOME OWNER type's go to the internet for the first cut of research data, what they find here can effect their buying decision. Period. I know as a dealer/insider industry type with success...you don't understand why the non educated potential buyer's in your area of expertise, don't come and pay homage to your immense knowledge and experience on the subject at YOUR place vs THEIR'S first! (Where YOU feel powerful and strong vs. where THEY feel in control)

Wait..an epiphany..you're online too! And looks like Stihl is morphing away from simply the dealer's store as the main carrier of the message..AND they have a really neat website with a SAW CHOICE calculator..and More and more of the dealers are..online with website. The killer is when you use a search engine for Dolmars 5100s..you end up with listing on the first or second page of the results pointing..here. The researcher finds equal posts for and against the issue; Dolmar takes a hit for the slice in time this shows up in search engines. Then in the same posting, the researcher see's the "light"! Industry experts talking about the tried and true Stilh/Husky or what ever; and the focus of the research changes for THAT prospective buyer and most "Homeowner Types" who visit this thread. 

As for the argument that the big guys don't advertise here with conventional "Bill Board" adds? WHY would they when they can spend nothing and have an adaptive advertisement program funded by the time of advocates? Why spend the money when your board member dealers do your work for you? Let the ones on the fringe do that spending thing as they DON"T have advocates yet..It sounds less biased, more credible from the little guy on the bleeding edge anyway! 

AND if you don't think they lurk and participate..your not paying attention! Actually my guess is you will find a way to continue bending this thread back to a discussion of Stihl's in the $300-$400 price range. Lets replace the slap against Dolmar with a few plugs for MS290's like a good company man who understands the impact of..these WEBSITES!


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## windthrown (Feb 15, 2009)

weimedog said:


> AND if you don't think they lurk and participate..your not paying attention! Actually my guess is you will find a way to continue bending this thread back to a discussion of Stihl's in the $300-$400 price range. Lets replace the slap against Dolmar with a few plugs for MS290's like a good company man who understands the impact of..these WEBSITES!



You are paranoid and dilusional if you believe that crap. Oh, Hi there Stihl! (waiving at them reading AS posts) We are not plugging the MS290 for its idealistic qualities. Lakeside is secretly hording 290s saws and parts for selling in the post EPA ban era. We are saying it is the best selling saw, DESPITE our opinions about the saw, good or bad, which is the point that the Troll and Thall are making. Troll really works in a factory in Sweden churning out Husky saws, and he is secretly priming threads here to bolster sales in the US... Well, actually Thall is saying that it is a pretty good saw, for the money. Tom Hall is really an agent for Stihl, to channel all threads and conversations on AS toward the $300-400 price range and thwart Trolls efforts to improve Husky sales in the US. 

Its all moot though. Me here, churning out propaganda for the United Stihl Movement, an underground group working to assure that Stihl dominates the global chainsaw market with MS 290 sales. You see, 2010 EPA regulations will make 95% of the saws we are using now and talking about obsolete. 

Beware of the chainsaw agents and the lurkers! They are everywhere!If you do not pay attention, you will be taken over by the Dark Side and be mezmorized by the rising forums into buying the MS290 type chainsaws...!


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## PES+ (Feb 15, 2009)

*That made my day*



windthrown said:


> You are paranoid and dilusional if you believe that crap. Oh, Hi there Stihl! (waiving at them reading AS posts) We are not plugging the MS290 for its idealistic qualities. Lakeside is really hording 290s saws for selling in the post EPA ban era. We are saying it is the best selling saw, DESPITE our opinions about the saw, good or bad, which is the point that the Troll and Thall are making. Troll really works in a factory in Sweden churning out Husky saws, and he is secretly priming threads here to bolster sales in the US...
> 
> Its all moot though. Me here, churning out propaganda for the United Stihl Movement, an underground group working to assure that Stihl dominates the global chainsaw market with MS 290 sales. You see, 2010 EPA regulations will make 95% of the saws we are using now and talking about obsolete. Tom Hall is really an agent for Stihl, to channel all threads and conversations on AS toward the $300-400 price range).




LOL
:smoking:


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## windthrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Hey, wait a minute, isn't the 5100s a $400 chainsaw? :monkey:

Oh, that's right, they are not Stihls.

Do not forget to buy a 290 today!


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## 04ultra (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> Well what you guys are saying about dolmar being crap and no service just does not fly here! They have been outstanding and I have had no troubles getting all of my dolmars fixed which when it comes to the 5100 has only been two saws! Both of those saws were customer related destruction and they being dolmar backed those saws when they really should not have! If they are junk saws and there are all these 5100's and everything blown up I would give $50 for your Junk Dolmars! I think that a lot of us on here are having a hard time with all the numbers of junk saws!



Go back and read all threads started buy Funky saw dude .....It will help under stand him .....


.


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## SawTroll (Feb 15, 2009)

windthrown said:


> You are paranoid and dilusional if you believe that crap. Oh, Hi there Stihl! (waiving at them reading AS posts) We are not plugging the MS290 for its idealistic qualities. Lakeside is secretly hording 290s saws and parts for selling in the post EPA ban era. We are saying it is the best selling saw, DESPITE our opinions about the saw, good or bad, which is the point that the Troll and Thall are making. Troll really works in a factory in Sweden churning out Husky saws, and he is secretly priming threads here to bolster sales in the US... Well, actually Thall is saying that it is a pretty good saw, for the money. Tom Hall is really an agent for Stihl, to channel all threads and conversations on AS toward the $300-400 price range and thwart Trolls efforts to improve Husky sales in the US.
> 
> Its all moot though. Me here, churning out propaganda for the United Stihl Movement, an underground group working to assure that Stihl dominates the global chainsaw market with MS 290 sales. You see, 2010 EPA regulations will make 95% of the saws we are using now and talking about obsolete.
> 
> Beware of the chainsaw agents and the lurkers! They are everywhere!If you do not pay attention, you will be taken over by the Dark Side and be mezmorized by the rising forums into buying the MS290 type chainsaws...!



:yourock:


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## Javelin (Feb 15, 2009)

I probably should this is the only one I have paid much attention to and just find it hard to beleve the numbers!:jawdrop: I cannot understand why he has such a huge number of failure when I do not! It is very  to me!


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## SawTroll (Feb 15, 2009)

windthrown said:


> You are paranoid and dilusional if you believe that crap. Oh, Hi there Stihl! (waiving at them reading AS posts) We are not plugging the MS290 for its idealistic qualities. Lakeside is secretly hording 290s saws and parts for selling in the post EPA ban era. We are saying it is the best selling saw, DESPITE our opinions about the saw, good or bad, which is the point that the Troll and Thall are making. Troll really works in a factory in Sweden churning out Husky saws, and he is secretly priming threads here to bolster sales in the US... Well, actually Thall is saying that it is a pretty good saw, for the money. Tom Hall is really an agent for Stihl, to channel all threads and conversations on AS toward the $300-400 price range and thwart Trolls efforts to improve Husky sales in the US.
> 
> Its all moot though. Me here, churning out propaganda for the United Stihl Movement, an underground group working to assure that Stihl dominates the global chainsaw market with MS 290 sales. You see, 2010 EPA regulations will make 95% of the saws we are using now and talking about obsolete.
> 
> Beware of the chainsaw agents and the lurkers! They are everywhere!If you do not pay attention, you will be taken over by the Dark Side and be mezmorized by the rising forums into buying the MS290 type chainsaws...!



:yourock:

I am still trying to solve the mystery of the stolen 361xp design.....


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## mowoodchopper (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> 353 husky is a good saw but I would take the 5100 over it! By the way I am still wanting those burnt up dolmar saws at $50 each! I just need to know were to send the check:greenchainsaw:



Ill up the bid! I will give 51.00 for all of their dolmars! I hate to see guys upset so just let me know what you have! Especially the running ones I would hate for you guys to have nightmares about the sound of that junk dolmar in your garage, Ill make sure you never have to see them again! Just trying to help! [ Maybe Therapy!]


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## windthrown (Feb 15, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> :yourock:



Hah! You see? The _Troll that Came in from the Cold _:smoking: is trying to win me over by using flattery. Its spy vs spy on this site! The propoganda is embedded everywhere :Eye: Doublespeak is the rule. Be safe and stick with the WildThing saw really means buy a big ass honkin' 880.


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## mowoodchopper (Feb 15, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Go back and read all threads started buy Funky saw dude .....It will help under stand him .....
> 
> 
> .



I did just that, and yes I understand!!!


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## Metals406 (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> Well what you guys are saying about dolmar being crap and no service just does not fly here! They have been outstanding and I have had no troubles getting all of my dolmars fixed which when it comes to the 5100 has only been two saws! Both of those saws were customer related destruction and they being dolmar backed those saws when they really should not have! If they are junk saws and there are all these 5100's and everything blown up I would give $50 for your Junk Dolmars! I think that a lot of us on here are having a hard time with all the numbers of junk saws!



You are correct... You may have awesome service from your Dolmar dealer. The point we are making, is that dealer support is sporadic and splotchy.

And to be in denial that the mighty 5100 can't fail?.. Well, that's just silly. My distributer has had one 7900 come in for warranty (according to them), and it was a factory flub. A piece of something was left in the jug from assembly at the factory, and bounced around in the jug, until it was coughed up into the muffler. They simply gave the customer a new saw.

You guys can rail on Forrest (Funky) all you want... It doesn't change the fact that they've had problems with the saws, and chitty support from the distributer. And he's not the only dealer to say it in this thread. Unless you are a dealer, and have direct contact with the distributors in question... Your opinion on the matter is rather meaningless.

Opinion is great... As long as it's based on fact and experience.


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## Javelin (Feb 15, 2009)

Well I appreciate your view however You do not have the facts on ME!  Yes I have a great dealer I have know him all of my life litterally!!:monkey: In fact my dealer use to work for a Dolmar distribator! Imagine the that! If this was a problem with this saw I think I would have heard about it being nationwide not just regional!


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## THALL10326 (Feb 15, 2009)

weimedog said:


> Seems from the follow on comments and from my own example there is a tangible impact to these threads to the "Homeowner Types" as well. For that matter I would suggest that these sites are growing the "enthusiast/ CAD junkies" population. I came here four or so years ago when trying to decide what "mid-sized" saw to buy...I ended up with a 365 husky and a real bad case of CAD! I'm typical of the current trend among most HOMEOWNER type buyers. If they don't have a clear understanding, and the size of the purchase makes a dent on your budget; they research that purchase. The internet is the prime driver here.
> 
> Marketing? I have lived thru and been a part the transition from European Motocross race motorcycles to the Japanese domination of all forms of racing..and watched KTM & Ducati muscle in now with tried and true tactics. I have been in that motorsports business myself. I've also lived thru and been a part of the rise AND fall of the major Cad/Cam companies of the 1970's and 1980. I was a part of the effort to drive the cost down and funtionallity up of the companies that TOOK down the big guys. A very integral part I might add. Life experience is a wonderful thing. So now I really enjoy saws..and guess what..Now I can sit on the side lines with no skin in the game and OBJECTIVELY watch history repeat itself yet again. You can't.
> 
> ...



You make some good valid points but you miss my overall point concerning the average chainsaw buyer, the biggest buying population in this country. They don't care about chainsaws period. They're usually buying one not because they want one but becasue they have to have one for some type of reason. To them a chainsaw is nothing more than a hammer or any other tool. Don't see any hammer forums do you but I bet every household in America has a hammer in it or nearby somewhere. Most households that have a chainsaw have one, not 10,15,50 or more like the saw guys on this site.

Sites like this are for the chainsaw junkies, the guys that really dig chainsaws. I admit I'm one of them as are just about every poster in this forumn. True, like you point out, some come here to lurk and see what all the saw nuts are saying. However if you read it closely its obvious there is so much bias among the posters it would be awful hard for a man to take away any good wealth of knowledge as to what saw to buy. He could get some good info on how to fix a saw he's having issues with but as to what to buy this site would drive that buyer insane from all the bias. 

I realise too the internet has changed alot of things in how people buy. The net is a awesome tool but BS and bias is not. To prove my point I've sent over 3000 units out the door in the last couple of years and not one, mind ya now, not one single customer ever mention AS at all. Fair to say they have probably never heard of it and since they are buying a what they consider a "tool" they could care less. 

Far as the big companies view of these boards, unlike you I know the view of the one such big company. I sell their products and I can assure you they frown upon the non-sense that goes takes place on these forumns. Any company with any sense would as well for the same reason, too much BS and bias. You say why would they spend any money in here when they got us doing the advertising for them, wrong once again. They don't have time to be defending every whimper like what is going on in this thread here or all over this board. My 5100 is great, well mine is a POS, well my 346 will outcut your 5100, it will not and blah blah blah. Manufactures are in the biz to make money, not defend every little boo hoo from some saw guru aguring with another saw fanatic. I can assure you the 50 million Stihl spent in advertising last year will wipe out any complaints seen these forumns and reach more people in one hour than this forumn will reach in one or two years. I know you don't agree with me that guys like you and me are the small crowd among the big picture but we are. The makers were selling saws long before the internet and AS. If they lost every sale generated on this forumn among the saw junkies it would be so small it probably wouldn't even registered with them at all. 

You are very correct on one thing, yes I'm on this forum like you and many others. Why, to me, like you and many others, a chainsaw is more than just a tool. We fancy it, we talk about them, we like them, we argu over them, sometimes we get down and dirty and fight over them. That my friend is exactly why I said to the average buying pulbic, the biggest buying population in this country, look at us and think we are ignorant,LOLOLOL
Think about it, grown men fussing over what, a chainsaw, whats wrong with them people,LOLOL 

Back to this thread relax. This thread will not alter Dolmar at all. Dolmar has much bigger fish to fry than to be bothered with some thread on the internet floating around saw junkies griping about their saws. If 2009 remains like the last few months of 2008 Dolmars problems will be much much bigger than this thread. A 100 million dollar wordwide company is tiny, very very small. I don't think they're wiggle room is gonna be near as much as Stihl and Husky to survive in these tuff economic times, we shall see. If 2009 is anything like the last of 2008 this could be the year when the big dogs push the little dogs over the edge. How far Makita will pump money into Dolmar remains to be seen in these hard times. Makita saved Dolmar from disappearing once but times are tuff now. I personally hope Dolmar survives these hard times and comes out looking good. We saw nuts need to have more brands to argu and fuss over.............


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## volks-man (Feb 15, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> You are correct... You may have awesome service from your Dolmar dealer. The point we are making, is that dealer support is sporadic and splotchy.
> 
> And to be in denial that the mighty 5100 can't fail?.. Well, that's just silly. My distributer has had one 7900 come in for warranty (according to them), and it was a factory flub. A piece of something was left in the jug from assembly at the factory, and bounced around in the jug, until it was coughed up into the muffler. They simply gave the customer a new saw.
> 
> ...





i am not a dolmar dealer. matter of fact i have only ever seen one dolmar saw.
the shoddy distributer network is not at question. this does not change the fact that "funky's" numbers seem _funky_.


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## Metals406 (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> Well what you guys are saying about dolmar being crap and no service just does not fly here! They have been outstanding and I have had no troubles getting all of my dolmars fixed which when it comes to the 5100 has only been two saws! Both of those saws were customer related destruction and they being dolmar backed those saws when they really should not have! If they are junk saws and there are all these 5100's and everything blown up I would give $50 for your Junk Dolmars! I think that a lot of us on here are having a hard time with all the numbers of junk saws!





Javelin said:


> Well I appreciate your view however You do not have the facts on ME!  Yes I have a great dealer I have know him all of my life litterally!!:monkey: In fact my dealer use to work for a Dolmar distribator! Imagine the that! If this was a problem with this saw I think I would have heard about it being nationwide not just regional!



I'm not knock'n ya bro... I'm just trying to point out that we (PNW) have different distributors... And they aren't smacking them out'a the park for dealers! Sip'n what I'm pouring? Different areas of the country have different distributors... Which can mean better or worse service.

Hence the splotchy service we're talking about. My point was, that unless you have dealt with the distributors in question... You really don't know what's happening. Know what I mean?


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## Javelin (Feb 15, 2009)

:agree2::agree2: You guys have got to talk to Dolmar themselves! Send your warranty direct to them and you will get something done! I am a dealer and the support is great! I have been hurting stihl and husky and they wish I would go away but I am still here! The 5100 is by far my best seller! My distribator has been very very good! If I had a complaint with them it would be that they have not distribated Dolmar long enough to have a large amount of inventory especially on the older dolmar saws! Something is going on in your area if you are trully having this kind of failure! And Dolmar and/or distribator or both should be helping you!


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## Metals406 (Feb 15, 2009)

volks-man said:


> i am not a dolmar dealer. matter of fact i have only ever seen one dolmar saw.
> the shoddy distributer network is not at question. this does not change the fact that "funky's" numbers seem _funky_.



Okay... I can't make you believe anything that's being said in this thread. Freedom of though, choice, and speech is awesome!

If you don't believe it, then don't... Nobody here will lose sleep over Funky's saw problems... Well, except maybe Funky.


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## Metals406 (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> Something is going on in your area if you are trully having this kind of failure! And Dolmar and/or distribator or both should be helping you!



Amen!.. I can say almost assuredly why the support sucks. These distributors are doing the Dolmar thing on the side... It's not their money maker. In fact, they often act like dealer relations is just a waste of their time and money. You ask a question, and they never have an answer.

Dealing with Dolmar directly has never been an option, the distributor takes it off the table immediately.


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## windthrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> :agree2::agree2: You guys have got to talk to Dolmar themselves! Send your warranty direct to them and you will get something done!



You cannot talk to, "Dolmar directly." You have to go through the regional distributor here. The PNW distributor sucks.


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## Javelin (Feb 15, 2009)

Buddy if I had this kind of trouble with all the hard work I have put into promoting dolmar someone at dolmar is going to be talking to me! Email them directly I would try the usa then go to the german side of it! If these failures are legit then they should be all over it or your distribator is covering it up which makes no sense on there part! But I have seen some funny things in the past with certain distribators!


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## Metals406 (Feb 15, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> Amen!.. I can say almost assuredly why the support sucks. These distributors are doing the Dolmar thing on the side... It's not their money maker. In fact, they often act like dealer relations is just a waste of their time and money. You ask a question, and they never have an answer.
> 
> Dealing with Dolmar directly has never been an option, the distributor takes it off the table immediately.





windthrown said:


> You cannot talk to, "Dolmar directly." You have to go through the regional distributor here. The PNW distributor sucks.



Yup...


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## windthrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> Buddy if I had this kind of trouble with all the hard work I have put into promoting dolmar someone at dolmar is going to be talking to me! Email them directly I would try the usa then go to the german side of it! If these failures are legit then they should be all over it or your distribator is covering it up which makes no sense on there part! But I have seen some funny things in the past with certain distribators!



From the Dolmar web site: 

DOLMAR offers their products worldwide through a selected network of specialized dealers. To ensure best sales and aftermarket service we do not sell directly to endusers.

It should also read that they do not deal directly with dealers. 

I have talked to several ex-Dolmar dealers that were (and maybe still are) listed here on the Dolmar web site. The ones that would talk about it had problems getting saws (back ordered through the distributor), problems getting parts (through the distributor), problems getting any warantee work approved (again, through the distributor), and most importantly getting PAID for warantee work (you guessed it, through the distributor). Do you see a pattern here?


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## SawTroll (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> :agree2::agree2: You guys have got to talk to Dolmar themselves! Send your warranty direct to them and you will get something done! I am a dealer and the support is great! I have been hurting stihl and husky and they wish I would go away but I am still here! The 5100 is by far my best seller! My distribator has been very very good! If I had a complaint with them it would be that they have not distribated Dolmar long enough to have a large amount of inventory especially on the older dolmar saws! Something is going on in your area if you are trully having this kind of failure! And Dolmar and/or distribator or both should be helping you!



I suspect you are right - there are good and bad distributers as well as dealers, I presume......


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## Javelin (Feb 15, 2009)

I just went to the usa web site you can leave a message to dolmar on it!


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## Metals406 (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> I just went to the usa web site you can leave a message to dolmar on it!



I believe it routes you to your regions distributor though... I think I tried it once?

I could be wrong though?


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## Javelin (Feb 15, 2009)

You might be right but I think it would be worth a try!


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## windthrown (Feb 15, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> I believe it routes you to your regions distributor though... I think I tried it once?
> 
> I could be wrong though?



You would be correct, actually. I got all replies to that site back through the distributor in Portland. I used it to ask about the dealer location in Salem, OR and about starting a Dolmar dealership a year or so ago.


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## Metals406 (Feb 15, 2009)

windthrown said:


> You would be correct, actually. I got all replies to that site back through the distributor in Portland. I used it to ask about the dealer location in Salem, OR and about starting a Dolmar dealership a year or so ago.



Okay... I figured I had tried it. I was all gung-ho about setting up, but they just flat took the wind out'a my sails. I'm just as happy now ordering on a 'by-sale' basis. Not only is it hard to move Dolmar due to lack of brand recognition... This economy just makes it worse.

I know for a fact if I was holding an inventory, I'd be sucking hind teet.


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## weimedog (Feb 15, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> The makers were selling saws long before the internet and AS. If they lost every sale generated on this forumn among the saw junkies it would be so small it probably wouldn't even registered with them at all.
> 
> Back to this thread relax. This thread will not alter Dolmar at all. Dolmar has much bigger fish to fry than to be bothered with some thread on the internet floating around saw junkies griping about their saws. If 2009 remains like the last few months of 2008 Dolmars problems will be much much bigger than this thread. A 100 million dollar wordwide company is tiny, very very small............



I agree with most of your post & points...and you and I, from what I can tell; really only dissagree on the impact of "websites for enthusiasts" on the sales of saws and in particular Dolmar saws.

I also agree and understand the "Big" companies aren't going to actively chase these threads...too many too little time. Part of the reason they don't like the "goings on" at places like this is simply because they can't control the message. 

Husqvarna figured out the mass market thing with the Poulan's and Homeowner Husqvarna's. Dolmar rides the Makita brand, reputation, and sales channels for their mass marketing efforts. Solo is left out in the cold...The Chinese are just beginning to make their presence known with the Troy Built's, Yard Machines, and Oregon's on eBay etc. Big retail companies have huge exposure and Husqvarna EARNED has the right reputation in the Pro world to build on. Lowes, TSC, Sears can sell the crap outa them with the right pricing using the Internet for straight advertising and online selling.

Stihl seems to be reacting in a different way. Instead of developing a line of low cost homeowner saws to sell at box stores, they are buying into the John Deere sales channels..simply because its cheaper than expanding their existing one AND the type of person going into a John Deere store isn't as worried about price as they are quality. Taking this route Stihl can sell their current class of saw product along with the landscaping tools and stay at the higher price points. John Deere stores have always made a point of connecting with their customers with both follow on sales and service and this is similar to the way Stilh dealers typically work. Stihl rapidly expands the RIGHT kind of market exposure, compete with those Husqvarna stores..all for less cost than building that amout of exposure with their own resources. (Are there JD stores in your territory?)

As for Dolmar, they really don't seem to have a strong marketing presence ..anywhere..other than running under the Makita banner. I see blurbs in the trade magazines from time to time but the dealers along with places like this seem to be the "point of the spear" for marketing Dolmar Pro Saw products. Which is why I feel this type of place makes proportionally even a greater impact on Dolmar than most. To get a small business (dealer or Pro) to invest in a "off brand" product line..they are going to do a little research. 20 years ago that was done thru reference calls and typical stuff from that period of time, usually initiated by a sales type. Now that is mixed with Internet research....and that again leads to places like this. If I'm going to invest 5 digits in a product line & floor plan..I'm going to do a little home work! 

As you said saws were being sold long before places like AS. The Internet is a relatively new technology, especially with respect to saws. So of course they were selling saw before AS. Companies used what ever communication technology was best in a given period of time. 

Back to the homeowner who is the largest consumer of saws along with the the small contractor who is looking for specific tools for jobs...My premise is simply that as the Internet has become more prolific and a larger part of our lives, more research is happening for all types of things by those who are connected...choosing tools is included especially when they cross the $200 dollars line. There are more and more "Consumer Report" type places, Home& Garden type websites, Hobby websites along with the Box stores adding "review" spots on their more expensive products. This also leads more to use search engines to augment their research leading them to places like this. This a a rapidly moving target so generalizations don't work for anything but small slices in time. But since this is a Dolmar 5100s thread..I'm not nearly as interested in the Homeowners (or enthusiasts)..I'm more interesting in the reaction from Pro's and Dealers!

I hope your right, actually. As I said before I really like what Dolmar is doing in offering a really exciting performance oriented product. Your point about the economy again makes a case for finding less expensive ways for marketing types to cast out their "nets", "trolling" for interest...internet becomes yet again a focus. 

My guess is even as a successful dealer, no matter how cozy you think you are with a Stihl sales/marketing employee; you only get the vision of Stihl's thought process they think is most benificial..to them. My guess is right now Stihl will make every effort to keep their core dealers from feeling threatened by the shifts in the sand from both the economy and the changing plans. They still need you to to forecast/buy saws and other products...probably right now.


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## volks-man (Feb 15, 2009)

volks-man said:


> i am not a dolmar dealer. matter of fact i have only ever seen one dolmar saw.
> the shoddy distributer network is not at question. this does not change the fact that "funky's" numbers seem _funky_.





Metals406 said:


> Okay... I can't make you believe anything that's being said in this thread. Freedom of though, choice, and speech is awesome!
> 
> If you don't believe it, then don't... Nobody here will lose sleep over Funky's saw problems... Well, except maybe Funky.



metals,
i don't want to come across the wrong way. i have no problem believing the bulk of the info in this thread. the only thing that really ran up the red flag with me was the '50 saws' thing. 

if you know this guy and vouch for him, great. i hope he is telling the truth and all gets sorted out for him and his customers. 
it only _seems_ like it may have been an exagerration. again, i hope i am wrong. perhaps my faith in humanity can be restored yet.

regards,
v


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## Metals406 (Feb 15, 2009)

volks-man said:


> metals,
> i don't want to come across the wrong way. i have no problem believing the bulk of the info in this thread. the only thing that really ran up the red flag with me was the '50 saws' thing.
> 
> if you know this guy and vouch for him, great. i hope he is telling the truth and all gets sorted out for him and his customers.
> ...



I wasn't there to count saws with him, and he could be exaggerating about the number? Would 36 out of 100 be better? Or 50 out of 200?

Fact is, I know what he's going through with the saws and distributor... First hand.

In 2007, there were 41,000+ people living in Bonner County... If 1/2% of that population bought a 5100, that would be 205 chainsaws sold. 50 bad saws out of 205 sold in a year, seems believable to me... Especially if it's a batch defect. And that doesn't count the folks like myself, that dropped by the shop to see the guys, and have a chat... My brother was wicked close to walking out with a 5100!


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## volks-man (Feb 15, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder--- even the one I own that ran of 100ll av gas--pieces of crap in my opinion and dolmar would not even honer the warrantys!!!!





Metals406 said:


> I wasn't there to count saws with him, and he could be exaggerating about the number? Would 36 out of 100 be better? Or 50 out of 200?
> Fact is, I know what he's going through with the saws and distributor... First hand.



i think in a round about way we might be agreeing on this. i could be wrong though.

please understand i am in no way trying to be confrontational about this. i stand by what i said before. i believe dolmar has some of each: bad batches, bad distributors, bad dealers, bad luck even. 
"almost every" out of "about 50" would look fishy to me while discussing *any *product.
and yes, 36 of 100 or 50 of 200 is more believable.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 15, 2009)

volks-man said:


> i think in a round about way we might be agreeing on this. i could be wrong though.
> 
> please understand i am in no way trying to be confrontational about this. i stand by what i said before. i believe dolmar has some of each: bad batches, bad distributors, bad dealers, bad luck even.
> "almost every" out of "about 50" would look fishy to me while discussing *any *product.
> and yes, 36 of 100 or 50 of 200 is more believable.



Yup, I'm not trying to sound confrontational either. 

Damn computers won't get tone-of-voice out. 

Funky is a good guy... And if there were some exaggerations there, I can't blame him. He went to bat for Dolmar to his boss, and it turned like a rabid dog and bit him in the butt.

I personally think the 5100's as a whole are good saws... I also think them guys in Sandpoint are getting the short end of the stick on the deal.

If those saws weren't already gone, I'm sure Funky would be happy to post pics.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 15, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> Yup, I'm not trying to sound confrontational either.
> 
> Damn computers won't get tone-of-voice out.
> 
> ...





You know Rob Moe ??? 






.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 15, 2009)

04ultra said:


> You know Rob Moe ???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you're talking about the Robert that owns that shop in Sandpoint... I don't "know" him like a drinking buddy, but met and chatted with him for a few hours.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 15, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> If you're talking about the Robert that owns that shop in Sandpoint... I don't "know" him like a drinking buddy, but met and chatted with him for a few hours.



Nope ..........From Mag Power .......




.


----------



## Metals406 (Feb 15, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Nope ..........From Mag Power .......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've only dealt with Ron, and then got switcherood to OEI.

I enjoyed talking to Ron on the phone... Seems like a really nice guy... Dealers still have all these aforementioned problems though.


----------



## sachsmo (Feb 15, 2009)

Thinking Thall has many good points as far as the big corporate mucks don't give a crap about the "little people". My guess is, as long as the big bonus checks and such keep coming in. But he may be wrong on his thinking when it comes to homeowner purchaser's not researching on the net. I for one did, and always do on big ticket items. TVs, mowers, saws, cars, even the computer I'm typing on. For one, if these threads were showing up 2 years ago, it would have been very tough buying a 5100. So to me, the bashing, and bad reviews do have a big effect on the buying public. At least the ones who do their homework. And if they're researching saws goggle will take them here!


----------



## pinemartin (Feb 15, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder
> 
> To me it sounds like he has sold 50 and has had ALMOST every one come back. Almost every one could be 30/40? but not all.


----------



## weimedog (Feb 15, 2009)

mobetter said:


> Thinking Thall has many good points as far as the big corporate mucks don't give a crap about the "little people". My guess is, as long as the big bonus checks and such keep coming in. But he may be wrong on his thinking when it comes to homeowner purchaser's not researching on the net. I for one did, and always do on big ticket items. TVs, mowers, saws, cars, even the computer I'm typing on. For one, if these threads were showing up 2 years ago, it would have been very tough buying a 5100. So to me, the bashing, and bad reviews do have a big effect on the buying public. At least the ones who do their homework. And if they're researching saws goggle will take them here!



Believe it on not, Stihl is different than the typical publicly owned corperate cash cows...they have a very interesting story dating from the beginning of chain saw history. Stihl doesn't seem to project the typical corperate culture of those we have seen dissintigrate on wall street this year.

And I relate to your feelings about the internet and I believe the internet was instrumental in my being drawn like a moth to a flame to CAD.


----------



## Javelin (Feb 15, 2009)

Interesting but around here they bully there way around! They set up almost everyone in this area and from what I have heard but cannot confirm is they will dictate what you carry!


----------



## weimedog (Feb 15, 2009)

Javelin said:


> Interesting but around here they bully there way around! They set up almost everyone in this area and from what I have heard but cannot confirm is they will dictate what you carry!



Same as Suzuki, Honda, and the rest. Bombardier in the snowmobile world...
They know they have the market momentum and your in the business because you want a peice of that sales stream..if they jam stuff in your direction they also know you will find a way to sell it and they block out possible competition! You stay focused. So they push the limits. They also know the ability for a dealer to front the floorplan is an indication of their health. This is the sales/marketing side. Doesn't mean their corperate attitude is the typical "screw the little guy" like Bear Stern's and those criminals. Its just milking their distribution channel as they should.

The smaller guys are much more flexible as they know they need you more than you need them! My bet is the upfront investment for Dolmar, Solo, and even Echo is a fraction of what it is for Stihl and Husqvarna.

(You know....judging from how Stihl advocates deal here...you may have a point)


----------



## Javelin (Feb 15, 2009)

:agree2:totally with that assessment


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 15, 2009)

pinemartin said:


> funky sawman said:
> 
> 
> > I have had almost every dolmar I sold (about 50 saws) come back with a scored piston and cylinder
> ...


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 15, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> Sold close to 80 saws total but the ps-401's and 7900's were among those with the least amount of problems.
> The failing saws were: ps-460, ps-510, ps 5100, ps-9010.
> Mostily just air filter problems with the ps-6400-7900 series.





So whats your failure rate on Huskys ?? 


























.Dont forget what you told another dealer...


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 15, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Terry Green is their main rep. He used to come on this site. Seems like a helluva good guy..



I'm a nobody (just a customer, who happened to purchase a couple Dolmar saws and a trimmer) and I've spoken with Terry Green directly.



Metals406 said:


> Dealing with Dolmar directly has never been an option, the distributor takes it off the table immediately.



:monkey: 1-888-673-7278 or 1-777-569-4945


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 15, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> I'm a nobody (just a customer, who happened to purchase a couple Dolmar saws and a trimmer) and I've spoken with Terry Green directly.
> 
> 
> 
> :monkey: 1-888-673-7278 or 1-777-569-4945



Dealers are PROHIBITED to speak direct to dolmar. Like myself, I tried this and Now we have had our dolmar dealership yanked from under us!!!


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 15, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> Dealers are PROHIBITED to speak direct to dolmar. Like myself, I tried this and Now we have had our dolmar dealership yanked from under us!!!



Not true. My father (business owner) has spoken with Mr. Green on the phone (very knowledgeable guy). I have communicated with him via email.


----------



## Javelin (Feb 15, 2009)

I have talked to him about my KMS4 and some new 112's that I have!


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 15, 2009)

04ultra said:


> So whats your failure rate on Huskys ??
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Couple years ago, Husky had really bad failure rates, but now they have smelled the crap in the fire and got their act together. Failure rates are currently low but it's hard to tell as we are not selling as many units as before. Husqvarna warrantys are starting to pay and we are able to keep demanding pros like the Forest Circus happy.


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 15, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> Dealers are PROHIBITED to speak direct to dolmar. Like myself, I tried this and Now we have had our dolmar dealership yanked from under us!!!



Uh, Oh.....Now the whole story comes out....You're not a Dolmar dealer anymore. 


My dealer called Dolmar directly, when I was standing right there, about a problem employee at the distributor and they took care of it immediately and he's still a Dolmar dealer, to this day.


----------



## weimedog (Feb 15, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> Dealers are PROHIBITED to speak direct to dolmar. Like myself, I tried this and Now we have had our dolmar dealership yanked from under us!!!



If I was a company looking at the same failure rate and my other dealers had a fraction of that type of issue...maybe I'd consider yanking the dealership as well. Especially if the cat fight spilled out to places like this.

Any other Dolmar dealers out there with a 50 percent failure rate?

(Wonder if that Idaho sand/clay/soil plugged the air filters faster and the pressure on the carb's diaphram thru that little tube going from the air filter to the bottom of the carb...combined with altitude leaned out those saws....under load..for a period of time...and the combination of issues stuck pistons. Maybe the more technical dealers figured this out before catastrophy)


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 15, 2009)

I called the phone # that was posted on here and Ron was not in so I talked to Tech support ......


Sure didn't hear about 50 saws that were trashed ........The guy laughed and asked if it was a joke ....





Sure glad that # was posted ..
.


----------



## volks-man (Feb 15, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I have had almost every dolmar I sold *(about 50 saws)*  come back with a scored piston and cylinder--- even the one I own that ran of 100ll av gas--pieces of crap in my opinion and dolmar would not even honer the warrantys!!!!





pinemartin said:


> To me it sounds like he has sold 50 and has had ALMOST every one come back. Almost every one could be 30/40? but not all.





funky sawman said:


> Sold close to *80 saws total *but the ps-401's and 7900's were among those with the least amount of problems.
> The failing saws were: ps-460, ps-510, ps 5100, ps-9010.
> Mostily just air filter problems with the ps-6400-7900 series.



opcorn:


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 15, 2009)

04ultra said:


> I called the phone # that was posted on here and Ron was not in so I talked to Tech support ......
> 
> 
> Sure didn't hear about 50 saws that were trashed ........The guy laughed and asked if it was a joke ....
> ...



First of all I have never dealed with RON, so he wouldn't know what you are talking about anyhow. The only people I have dealed with are Todd L. and Evan ####enson. GLAD TO CLEAR THAT ON UP FOR YOU.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 15, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> First of all I have never dealed with RON, so he wouldn't know what you are talking about anyhow. The only people I have dealed with are Todd L. and Evan ####enson. GLAD TO CLEAR THAT ON UP FOR YOU.





So are they with Mag power ???


Also what location ??
.


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 15, 2009)

Mag power in tillition oregon.
I dont know how many times I have to say this but here it goes. I really like chainsaws---ALL OF THEM----BUT---When a distributer does not support the dealer it has a tendency to create sour people like my self. Yes, I admitt that I go overboard a times but it seems that I have too. I went overboard on Husqvarna and MY words went clear to sweden and actually did somthing.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 15, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> Mag power in tillition oregon.
> I dont know how many times I have to say this but here it goes. I really like chainsaws---ALL OF THEM----BUT---When a distributer does not support the dealer it has a tendency to create sour people like my self. Yes, I admitt that I go overboard a times but it seems that I have too. I went overboard on Husqvarna and MY words went clear to sweden and actually did somthing.



Intergrated Distributors Network, LLC 
Magneto Power
Portland office
1-800-597-3880


This is the # I called .....They all tele conference every week ....Seems to be something fishy here..



For Husky to listen to you as an employee of a dealership you must sell a lot of saws....



.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 15, 2009)

BTW I think you ment Tualatin OR..




.


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 15, 2009)

last year we sold about 150 huskys but in 2007 we sold over 300. I just expect Dolmar to at least cover their saws like husqvarna does----Is that asking too much??????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 15, 2009)

04ultra said:


> BTW I think you ment Tualatin OR..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 15, 2009)

Funky I'm sorry but everyone is jumping on you because your story is just not holding up. It just sounds like you're just repeating what you've read on this site. You say you've had bad cylinder and filter problems. OK what caused these problems? What kind of problems did you have with the 9010? how did you handle your customers? 

Believe it or not I've also spoken with Terry about the issues I was having with my 5100 and my dealer.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 15, 2009)

weimedog said:


> I agree with most of your post & points...and you and I, from what I can tell; really only dissagree on the impact of "websites for enthusiasts" on the sales of saws and in particular Dolmar saws.
> 
> I also agree and understand the "Big" companies aren't going to actively chase these threads...too many too little time. Part of the reason they don't like the "goings on" at places like this is simply because they can't control the message.
> 
> ...



I'm not fussing with ya, just pointing out there is a differance between people using the internet to get information before they buy verses them reading a site like this before they make a decision. Most folks interested in looking for information on Stihl will go to the Stihl website, not here, same goes for Husky and Dolmar. If they come here what can they get from it? Look at this thread, a war is going on over the 5100. Some say its great, others say it fails too fast. A potenial buyer wanting information would read this thread and go man those guys are nuts, look at em arguing over a dayumm chainsaw, who's right, who's wrong, who's lying, who's telling the facts, who's telling the BS. 

I agree with you 100% the internet is a great tool and does bennifit both the manufacture and the potenial buyers. Forumns such as this bennifit those that want to argu, fuss, fued and fight and even help each other with problems. It has little to offer anyone that wants to buy a saw because just like this thread most buyers aren't willing to read and sort out all the bias and BS in it just to buy a chainsaw.

You got one thing wrong concerning Stihl and John Deere. Stihl hasn't spent a penny to go into John Deere. They've been in some John Deere dealerships for years. JD went to Stihl and asked them to be their main supplier of small handheld power equipment. Stihl jumped on it as any small power equipment maker would. Topping it all the new JD dealers that will sell the Stihl product have to sign up like any other Stihl dealer. They have to buy the displays, the equipment like anyone else. The one that got nailed in the deal was Efco. JD dropped the idea of having Efco make a product for them in green and yellow with the JD logo on it. Hopefully they will get those el cheapo green and yellow mowers out of Home Depot made by MTD soon as well. Stihl made out like a bandit in the JD deal. Husky and Dolmar sure would have loved JD coming to them with a sweetheat deal like that but JD chose Stihl because Stihl is the most reconised name in the small handheld equipment biz and because they don't cater to mass merchants. Who wants to compete with Lowes and Sears over selling the same product when you can have one not sold there at all. JD was wise and Stihl was wise as well.

I know your very keen in marketing, I've been reading your posts carefully and you know your stuff but Stihl is alittle differant than most companies. The strategies they use are quite differant than the others. Here's a piece that comes directly out the mouth of Peter Stihl talking about marketing.

"the success of Stihl is based on unique marketing strategies. Virtually all of our primary competitors have compromised their retail distribution strategies to accommodate mass merchants. While this approach may offer some near term advantages by way increased sales distribution, the long term effect can be a loss of identity and competitive uniqueness, this in not the Stihl way" 

I think what that means is Stihl will not fall for the fast buck at the price of giving up the reputation they have built. Whats your take on what he means in that piece????


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 15, 2009)

The 9010 had paint chips comming off the crankcase that clogged the impulse pipe. Then I couldn't get the saw in tune. I then inspected the cylinder and replaced the carb. It still wouldn't run so I pressure and vacuum tested it- no leaks. I then noticed a compression dropoff (after about 1.5 hrs of run time) so I inspected the piston and cylinder and found paint chips lodged between the piston and cylinder that was causing ring damage (weard wear patterns) When I pulled the fuel tank off the saw I then found a paint clogged impulse hose!!!
Why the paint was coming off is way beyond me, as I also happened to many customers saws also (5100's) Intake boot spring clamps were also failing because of not enough tension halding the boot on (I think) that was causing air leaks and piston failures. The air filters were getting fine dust past the filter halves and wearing the intake side of the piston skirt. Somthing I have not said yet is at least 5 saws were missing parts right out of the box. For instance: a 401 was missing a clutch spring, a 5100 was without a bucking dog bolt, two ps 460's were missing chain catchers and finally a 7900 was without a sprocket rim.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 15, 2009)

On another note me and Hoss got together today and hung out over at his shop for a change. I took along my 5100 and my 346xp. I let Hoss run em both and though they are close he felt the 5100 had a tad more balls than the 346. I agree. However he also commented on how lite and easy to handle the 346 is over the 5100. So he and me agree 100% on those 2 saws. Neither one fried in action and both performed lovely,LOLOL

Then he started whipping out the big iron. Its amazing just how slow the 346 and 5100 are compared to the big iron. We had a blast.


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 15, 2009)

A good running stock 5100 was run with a 359 husky with the same 20" bar and 72 jgx chain cutting 13" doug fir. THE dolmar beat the 359 every cut, I was very impressed. That little dolmar is the most powerfull small saw I have ever seen.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 15, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> A good running stock 5100 was run with a 359 husky with the same 20" bar and 72 jgx chain cutting 13" doug fir. THE dolmar beat the 359 every cut, I was very impressed. That little dolmar is the most powerfull small saw I have ever seen.



It is a mean little huzzy for sure. It outcuts the 346 by a half second or so in the block. In the limbs the 346 dusts the 5100 easily. The Sthil 260 doesn't come close to either one in power but I feel certain the 260 will still be running when those two fast cats are dead and gone. Speed kills but sure is fun.


----------



## spacemule (Feb 15, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> It is a mean little huzzy for sure. It outcuts the 346 by a half second or so in the block. In the limbs the 346 dusts the 5100 easily. The Sthil 260 doesn't come close to either one in power but I feel certain the 260 will still be running when those two fast cats are dead and gone. Speed kills but sure is fun.



Yeah, but the hotrods will have cut more wood in their shorter lives.


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 15, 2009)

:agree2::agree2:


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

spacemule said:


> Yeah, but the hotrods will have cut more wood in their shorter lives.



Not according to this thread Space,LOLOL I really don't care who has the speed and blasts through the wood and apparently the buying public doesn't care either. I'm more interested in what sells and we know what sells,


----------



## spacemule (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Not according to this thread Space,LOLOL I really don't care who has the speed and blasts through the wood and apparently the buying public doesn't care either. I'm more interested in what sells and we know what sells,



I'll bet you're also the kind of guy who drives 45 miles an hour on the interstate.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> It is a mean little huzzy for sure. It outcuts the 346 by a half second or so in the block. In the limbs the 346 dusts the 5100 easily. The Sthil 260 doesn't come close to either one in power but I feel certain the 260 will still be running when those two fast cats are dead and gone. Speed kills but sure is fun.



Sorry old feller I have both those saws. A half second You guys need a new watch.

Here's one of those slow 346
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdMhlj4xF5w&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdMhlj4xF5w&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 16, 2009)

Funky that was a good post. Everything you said sounds credible, and I've experienced some of these problems myself. The 5100 is a really strong smooth saw to run, but it's just not a fully complete design. It sucks to be a Beta tester.lol

I also would like to add, that I personally don't know anyone who doesn't do some research on the net before they make any purchase over $200


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> Funky I'm sorry but everyone is jumping on you because your story is just not holding up. It just sounds like you're just repeating what you've read on this site. You say you've had bad cylinder and filter problems. OK what caused these problems? What kind of problems did you have with the 9010? how did you handle your customers?
> 
> Believe it or not I've also spoken with Terry about the issues I was having with my 5100 and my dealer.



You talked to Terry, cool, I have too. I thought he seemed like a ok guy. I was thinking of trying to get Dolmar in our store. Terry gave me the run down but my bosses said no way. You won't beleive why, they, everyone of them, had never heard of Dolmar before and thats the main reason they said no. I coulda sold tons of Dolmar along with Stihl, no doubt in my mind. I coulda put Dolmar on the map in my area. The bosses turned it down flat and wouldn't even think on it, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

So finnish the story, what did he say concerning the 5100 of yours??


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

spacemule said:


> I'll bet you're also the kind of guy who drives 45 miles an hour on the interstate.



Nope, 54 mph,LOLOL


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 16, 2009)

I get customers and PRO's that come in the shop all the time knowing exactly what they want after doing research on the net. A common phrase I here is:
" Well, I read on the internet that such and such saw has these features and that is the one I want." I tell them about certin saws and the say: "I heard really good things about that saw on the net"


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 16, 2009)

Here is video of a 346NE with 24inch bar modded by TsT.






.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Sorry old feller I have both those saws. A half second You guys need a new watch.
> 
> Here's one of those slow 346
> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdMhlj4xF5w&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UdMhlj4xF5w&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



Don't need no stop watch or modded saw either, wink. Stock out the box the 5100 is a tad more powerfull than a 346. You make a vid opening up both out the box and running them and get back to me, hehehe


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Don't need no stop watch or modded saw either, wink. Stock out the box the 5100 is a tad more powerfull than a 346. You make a vid opening up both out the box and running them and get back to me, hehehe



How about that 1/2 second vid you are talking about.


----------



## spacemule (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Here is video of a 346NE with 24inch bar modded by TsT.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey speedy, there's no video there.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Here is video of a 346NE with 24inch bar modded by TsT.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I never said it wasn't modded.

What does the two dots and straight line mean. Not getting that.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> I get customers and PRO's that come in the shop all the time knowing exactly what they want after doing research on the net. A common phrase I here is:
> " Well, I read on the internet that such and such saw has these features and that is the one I want." I tell them about certin saws and the say: "I heard really good things about that saw on the net"



I getem too but never from here, they come by way of the Stihl website. So far I've yet to ever have a customer tell me they got their info from here. I have had tons walk in with print outs from the Stihl site though. On the flip side I know one guy that did buy a 346 and a 5100 from the info he got here, me. Course I also bought a 372 from the info I got on here and found out the hard way everything on the net is not true,LOLOL


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Don't need no stop watch or modded saw either, wink. Stock out the box the 5100 is a tad more powerfull than a 346. You make a vid opening up both out the box and running them and get back to me, hehehe



Now let me see 

346NE 450.00 shipped to booker 

TST ported 400.00 + extra 

for around 900.00 it better run a 24 and a 28" bar .....

VS 399.00 stocker 

.


----------



## cuttinscott (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Now let me see
> 
> 346NE 450.00 shipped to booker
> 
> ...



$850 for that ????????????:monkey::monkey::monkey::monkey:



Scott


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Now let me see
> 
> 346NE 450.00 shipped to booker
> 
> ...



Who is TST--- that is one heck of a good running 346------------I WANT ONE


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> How about that 1/2 second vid you are talking about.



Booker I know you love your Huskies but I can assure you out the box a 346 will not out saw a 5100 in the block. Not that I care though, they are close. In the limbs the 346 shines over the 5100. Neither one is a full muti purpose saw, that honor goes to the 361, Stihl of course, see I got a bias bone too Booker,LOLOLOL


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 16, 2009)

spacemule said:


> Hey speedy, there's no video there.



LOL.............http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=69624


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Now let me see
> 
> 346NE 450.00 shipped to booker
> 
> ...



No your off there 405 shipped to my door

TST ported 0 for me

so 405 will run a 24 to 28 weight saved priceless


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

cuttinscott said:


> $950 for that ????????????:monkey::monkey::monkey::monkey:
> 
> 
> 
> Scott



Don't get me started with the 681 7900 thing LOL


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> No your off there 405 shipped to my door
> 
> TST ported 0 for me
> 
> so 405 will run a 24 to 28 weight saved priceless





Your so full of it ...lol








.


----------



## lovetheoutdoors (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> No your off there 405 shipped to my door
> 
> TST ported 0 for me
> 
> so 405 will run a 24 to 28 weight saved priceless



can you get me one that runs like that for that price?


----------



## cuttinscott (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Don't get me started with the 681 7900 thing LOL



Who said anything about 7900's and 681's????????




Scott


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Booker I know you love your Huskies but I can assure you out the box a 346 will not out saw a 5100 in the block. Not that I care though, they are close. In the limbs the 346 shines over the 5100. Neither one is a full muti purpose saw, that honor goes to the 361, Stihl of course, see I got a bias bone too Booker,LOLOLOL



Not bias here and you are right about right out of the box but 1/2 second. O and by the way that honor was handed off to the 357


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Now let me see
> 
> 346NE 450.00 shipped to booker
> 
> ...



LOL, thats the point I was trying to make to the marketing man. There is so much underhanded BS going on only a dayumm fool would use this place as a good source of information. Think about it. A man see's Booker modded 346, not knowing its modded, goes and buys one and goes what, this saw sure doesn't cut like the one I seen on AS,LOLOLOL


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 16, 2009)

WHO IS TST????????????????????????????????????:monkey::monkey:


----------



## weimedog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> You got one thing wrong concerning Stihl and John Deere. Stihl hasn't spent a penny to go into John Deere. They've been in some John Deere dealerships for years. JD went to Stihl and asked them to be their main supplier of small handheld power equipment. Stihl jumped on it as any small power equipment maker would.
> 
> 
> directly out the mouth of Peter Stihl talking about marketing.
> ...



To me any business spending any effort is measured in money. Time spent organizing the JD deal is done by Stihl employee's therefore money is spent. That time would have been spent in other targeted area's had the JD opportunity not appeared on the horizon...Therefore Stihl "bought" into the plan and changed the direction of efforts by "investing" the time of some of its employee's. Hence my statement.

I agree with Mr. Stihl's statement and your analysis of that statement. The difference between Stihl and others companies is who owns and therefore sets priority...I think I posted something along these lines a few pages back relative to the appearance of Stihl's corperate culture. It is different than the typical.

Stihl the company seems to want to be in the higher quality segment of the market place..and thats probably another reason the JD opportunity was attractive. Their company philosophies appear to be similar. In addition the rise of the Husqvarna "Power Equipment" Stores are competition to the old John Deere Small Tractor/ Home and Garden type places. John Deere and Stihl NEED each other. 

Husqvarna has channeled its lower cost products thru retail distribution lines protecting their name hiding behind Poulan...and LEVERAGING their name in the next level stores like TSC and Lowes. They have kept the true professional lines to be sold at either saw specific dealers or these "Power Equipment" dealers. A good stratagy. They have built a tremendous band width of sales channels, very powerful stuff;....MY fear is Husqvarna will creap to the dark side and follow others into the abiss of high volume, low margin, consumer saws because that approach requires less engineering/marketing/support & therefore better on the ballance sheet and do exactly as Mr. Peter Stihl prophesises. They would loose their identity first, and then because of the high cost of engineering & support vs. return, drop the Pro lines second. This hasn't happened yet...

What is Husqvarna's identity anyway? (vs. Stihl) They started as a firearm's manufacturer..hence the "gunsite" logo. They branched into everything from Sewing machines to motorcycles..got bought out by an appliance manufacturer..the motorcycle line was ejected to Italy to be morphed into first Cagiva, and then back to Husqvarna under Italian ownership; to be bought out by BMW the motorcycle company! The saws got spit out of the appliance company along with all the other brands labels...and now they have morphed into a full line power equipment company building everything from lawn mowers to chainsaws!

Stihl is still Stihl. A parallel company in spirit is KTM of the motorcycle world. Their moto is to build "ready to race" competition motorcycles. They have. They will for a long time. They hold their racing heritage and identy dear to their corperate hearts. As Stihl does its history in the Chainsaw world.

Having said that...and you want to look into the future...do a little reseach on a company named Autodesk. Its a real interesting story, one that a person interested in marketing should research and understand as it will play out over and over again in market after market. Even in this market.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Your so full of it ...lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You want to bet me on that. pick your wager.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> You want to bet me on that. pick your wager.



LOL.............http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=69624


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> LOL.............http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=69624



Offer stands


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Not bias here and you are right about right out of the box but 1/2 second. O and by the way that honor was handed off to the 357




357, whats a 357, oh ok, thats Husky's all purpose saw,LOLOL I've run and 357 and its a nice saw, I liked it. Its got nothing on a 361 and to me the 361 is much prettier so you know which one will be in my hands,LOLOLOL

Yes a 1/2 second isn't much to be arguing over. Husky gotem on the handling with the 346 but they didn't getem on the power. CC for CC Dolmar is almost unbeatable in the cut.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Offer stands






You posted that video of the TST ..........So were you saying its not TST and its stock or some one else modded it ??


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 16, 2009)

H E L L O W T O E A R T H WHO IS

T S T


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

weimedog said:


> To me any business spending any effort is measured in money. Time spent organizing the JD deal is done by Stihl employee's therefore money is spent. That time would have been spent in other targeted area's had the JD opportunity not appeared on the horizon...Therefore Stihl "bought" into the plan and changed the direction of efforts by "investing" the time of some of its employee's. Hence my statement.
> 
> I agree with Mr. Stihl's statement and your analysis of that statement. The difference between Stihl and others companies is who owns and therefore sets priority...I think I posted something along these lines a few pages back relative to the appearance of Stihl's corperate culture. It is different than the typical.
> 
> ...



Good post but to say Stihl bought into the JD deal I don't quite understand. If you mean they bought into the idea your correct, spent money to get JD to take on thier product line, no. They are merely shipping product to JD like they do they other 35,000 dealers worldwide. 

I do however understand they will both share the advertising costs so there you have a point concerning money spent but that bennifts both parties, not just one. 

I like your posts. Unlike these cats haggling over saws you put out some good info, I appreciate the insight into marketing that you pocess. I'll read up on Autodesk and check it out,


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> You posted that video of the TST ..........So were you saying its not TST and its stock or some one else modded it ??



No you are just telling me how much it cost me to get it modded in your little speach. I told you what it cost and you said I was full of it. I will wager right now of how much the tst mod cost.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> H E L L O W T O E A R T H WHO IS
> 
> T S T



A saw builder.


----------



## lovetheoutdoors (Feb 16, 2009)

so it is modded by tst


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

lovetheoutdoors said:


> so it is modded by tst



Yes never said it wasn't


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> No you are just telling me how much it cost me to get it modded in your little speach. I told you what it cost and you said I was full of it. I will wager right now of how much the tst mod cost.



It cost you 0 


It would cost anybody else 400 + 

You even sent me an email telling me how much and where to send a saw ...


----------



## 103scooter (Feb 16, 2009)

Two Stroke Technologies 

And i bet anyone contacting them for a mod won't get it for free. probably several hundred bucks


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

cuttinscott said:


> Who said anything about 7900's and 681's????????
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I will leave you alone scott.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> It cost you 0
> 
> 
> It would cost anybody else 400 +
> ...



It cost me 0.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

103scooter said:


> Two Stroke Technologies
> 
> And i bet anyone contacting them for a mod won't get it for free. probably several hundred bucks



You are right it would cost several hundred dollars for others.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> It cost me 0.







Cost u 0 ..........


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Yes never said it wasn't



Well lets back up here a second. When you posted that vid in reply to one of my posts you never said IT WAS MODDED either,LOLOLOL

You shoulda been nice and said Tom my modded 346 will outcut a stock 5100easily. I woulda said no schit,LOLOLOL


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Well lets back up here a second. When you posted that vid in reply to one of my posts you never said IT WAS MODDED either,LOLOLOL
> 
> You shoulda been nice and said Tom my modded 346 will outcut a stock 5100easily. I woulda said no schit,LOLOLOL



Ah look again young man right on top of the video is one of those slow 346xp. Just repling to your half second.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Cost u 0 ..........



Makes you wonder who tst is doesn't it.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Cost u 0 ..........



Crud forgot I did have to buy that 24 inch bar and chain and the 28 inch bar and chain.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Ah look again young man right on top of the video is one of those slow 346xp. Just repling to your half second.



Well cuse me,LOL

The sound gives that saw away. How many R's is that thing turning???


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Makes you wonder who tst is doesn't it.



Nope .........Wouldnt spend that kinda money on my 2153 .....






900.00 + for my 2153 is too much ......Id buy a 361 and a case of Jack first ...


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 16, 2009)

Last year at the OH spring GTG we ran both saws side by side in the same block. My 5100 had a good chain and the 346 was wearing 95vp. 

Here are the times.
andyshine 5100 6.81
woodheater 346 6.90 

I talked to Terry when I thought my dealer replaced the top end of my 5100 without me authorizing it. Ten minutes after speaking with Terry my dealer called and apologetically said he mixed up the paperwork. That's the one and only time I spoke with him, and he did seem like a nice guy.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Well cuse me,LOL
> 
> The sound gives that saw away. How many R's is that thing turning???



Im not sure there. some guy told me one time he had some kind of device that could tell with sound waves or something. He said 12 something in the wood. Who knows I just like the way she cuts.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> Last year at the OH spring GTG we ran both saws side by side in the same block. My 5100 had a good chain and the 346 was wearing 95vp.
> 
> Here are the times.
> andyshine 5100 6.81
> ...



Well look at that, those times prove me about right, less than a second between em. Out in the woods a man that moves the fastest will take either one of those saws and put a slower moving man to shame, out in the woods where it counts,


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Nope .........Wouldnt spend that kinda money on my 2153 .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK fine. I'd just use the ones I have and buy a whole lot of Jack. Don't have much use for those small saws anyway.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Nope .........Wouldnt spend that kinda money on my 2153 .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess we won't wager then


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Im not sure there. some guy told me one time he had some kind of device that could tell with sound waves or something. He said 12 something in the wood. Who knows I just like the way she cuts.



12 in the cut is cooking baby, that saw is running good...


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

BIGBORE577 said:


> OK fine. I'd just use the ones I have and buy a whole lot of Jack. Don't have much use for those small saws anyway.



Hello bigbore long time no see.


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Hello bigbore long time no see.



Hola! Nice you're back. Hope you are feeling better.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

BIGBORE577 said:


> Hola! Nice you're back. Hope you are feeling better.



Starten to run some saws and take some vid. Thanks for asking


----------



## MCW (Feb 16, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> Unless you are a dealer, and have direct contact with the distributors in question... Your opinion on the matter is rather meaningless.



Contact with the distributors isn't necessary when someone has claimed that nearly every Dolmar they've sold has had scored pistons and cylinders. That was claimed earlier and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to be sceptical about those numbers...



volks-man said:


> metals,
> i don't want to come across the wrong way. i have no problem believing the bulk of the info in this thread. the only thing that really ran up the red flag with me was the '50 saws' thing.



I agree. Although this thread is now massive and I haven't got the time to read it all I'm pretty sure that he's still sticking to the earlier numbers regarding faulty saws...



volks-man said:


> i think in a round about way we might be agreeing on this. i could be wrong though.
> 
> please understand i am in no way trying to be confrontational about this. i stand by what i said before. i believe dolmar has some of each: bad batches, bad distributors, bad dealers, bad luck even.
> "almost every" out of "about 50" would look fishy to me while discussing *any *product.
> and yes, 36 of 100 or 50 of 200 is more believable.



I agree again. "almost every" out of "about 50" saws is quite obviously exaggerated. The only line I'd believe if there WERE that many faults was that there is a bad batch of local fuel, or his pre sale saw adjustments were bad - but then that wouldn't be a Dolmar problem, would it? I want proof that the failure rate was that high before I believe it. Even the worst Chinese made saws have nowhere near that level of failure...
I can understand that he's pissed off with distributors and their lack of assistance but that still doesn't explain earlier claims...


----------



## belgian (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> I'm not fussing with ya, just pointing out there is a differance between people using the internet to get information before they buy verses them reading a site like this before they make a decision. Most folks interested in looking for information on Stihl will go to the Stihl website, not here, same goes for Husky and Dolmar. If they come here what can they get from it? Look at this thread, a war is going on over the 5100. Some say its great, others say it fails too fast. A potenial buyer wanting information would read this thread and go man those guys are nuts, look at em arguing over a dayumm chainsaw, who's right, who's wrong, who's lying, who's telling the facts, who's telling the BS.
> 
> I agree with you 100% the internet is a great tool and does bennifit both the manufacture and the potenial buyers. Forumns such as this bennifit those that want to argu, fuss, fued and fight and even help each other with problems. It has little to offer anyone that wants to buy a saw because just like this thread most buyers aren't willing to read and sort out all the bias and BS in it just to buy a chainsaw.



Thall, I believe that the internet will gain increasing importance in the future for anyone who wants to buy a chainsaw.

This place made me buy a 361 over a 360 about 5 years ago, and I was not a sawbuff at that time... A lot of Bias like you said, but if you have some common sense, it will not take you more than an hour to find out which poster is credible and makes valid points. I say there's a wealth of info on this site for anyone who want to buy a new saw.

We are still part of a generation that grew up without the internet and have different ways of making a purchase. Old school but not bad, at all.

I see my kids and they google the internet like there's no tormorrow. They are the internet generation that will make use of it much more than we can imagine I guess. 

There's also a theory in sales that talks about positive and negative references. One negative or unhappy reference creates a lot of noise and badmouthing, and as such equals at least 10 positive references. So it is of utmost importance for any manufacterer to keep the number of negative customers to a miniumum, at least if they have a valid complaint.

Now if you have an nice network set up to deal with customer complaints efficiently, that will pay in the long run (Stihl....).

But the point I was actually trying to make is, don't underestimate the power of the net.


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 16, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> Last year at the OH spring GTG we ran both saws side by side in the same block. My 5100 had a good chain and the 346 was wearing 95vp.
> 
> Here are the times.
> andyshine 5100 6.81
> woodheater 346 6.90




Hmmmmmm......Even a defective, prototype 5100 like Andy got beat the 346 in the cut.....I suspect a non-defective 5100 like mine and many others have would beat it by a 1/2 second or so, like Tommy's reporting.


----------



## spike60 (Feb 16, 2009)

This gets funnier and funnier as it goes on.

A particular saw gets beat by another saw by a tenth of a second and the loser has to hang his head in shame as if he just lost the Super Bowl. 

But what really cracks me up is that these comparisons are only between 2 EXAMPLES of each saw model. If a single 346 beats a single 5100, or vice versa, it's only a comparison between those specific saws. So, it's kind of ridiculous to speak in terms of "The ###" beats "The ###" as if it applys to 10,000 other saws. 

I mean come on, what if you ran two of the same saw? Would you say something silly like "That 5100 will beat a 5100"?


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> I mean come on, what if you ran two of the same saw? Would you say something silly like "That 5100 will beat a 5100"?



No .....One would be muffler modded other stock ......Or woods ported vs stock ....LOL.



Spike my 2153 stock was beat by a 2153 ported .......Hard to believe ..eh


----------



## PB (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> This gets funnier and funnier as it goes on.
> 
> A particular saw gets beat by another saw by a tenth of a second and the loser has to hang his head in shame as if he just lost the Super Bowl.
> 
> ...



Spike were you a scientist in a past life? LOL 

Sample size, sample size, sample size.


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> This gets funnier and funnier as it goes on......
> 
> .....I mean come on, what if you ran two of the same saw? Would you say something silly like "That 5100 will beat a 5100"?



Spike,
Unfortunately, here on the A.S., that would most likely happen.:jawdrop:


----------



## weimedog (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> This gets funnier and funnier as it goes on.
> 
> A particular saw gets beat by another saw by a tenth of a second and the loser has to hang his head in shame as if he just lost the Super Bowl.
> 
> ...




Must be a hard thing...dealing "Husky, Jonsered, Dolmar, Red Max" knowing that any Echo/Stihl/Solo can beat any of those brands best saws of equal displacement on youtube! And I remember attending a GM conference about the "perception of quality". What wins on Sunday sells on Monday...true even with saws is what your telling me. Whats a dealer to do with all that informational static in the market place! I somehow think you can handle it.


----------



## funky sawman (Feb 16, 2009)

DDT= Diehard Dolmar Thread


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

belgian said:


> Thall, I believe that the internet will gain increasing importance in the future for anyone who wants to buy a chainsaw.
> 
> This place made me buy a 361 over a 360 about 5 years ago, and I was not a sawbuff at that time... A lot of Bias like you said, but if you have some common sense, it will not take you more than an hour to find out which poster is credible and makes valid points. I say there's a wealth of info on this site for anyone who want to buy a new saw.
> 
> ...



I agree with you 100% Brother Belgian, I said the internet was indeed a great tool. What I don't think is a great tool is threads such as this. This thread offers very little for someone itching for good information on making a saw purchase. It does offer a awful lot of BS, which I provide wholehearty and in fun, and a ton of bias by those sticking up for they're brand of choice no matter what. 

Topping that a survey was done by you know who concerning people and the web. They found the average time a person spends researching a website to help them make a buying decision is the whole lump average of 5 mere minutes. Tant no way threads like this can be asborb by most that aren't willing to spend more than 5 minutes. Oddly Stihl thinks those 5 minutes spent is great, they think those five minutes spent will generate millions in sales and they are right. 

Course now us small time crowd, the junkies like you and me, will spend hours researching our choices, we're into chainsaws. Sadly for every person thats really into saws like you and me there is another 100,000 out there that could care less, they just want a tool to fullfill some need they have and nothing more. I just can't see that crowd sitting down and reading threads like this for hours on in when chainsaws aren't that big a deal to them in the first place. If they do chances are good they will walk away thinking man that Belgian and Thall are nuts over chainsaws,LOLOL


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> This gets funnier and funnier as it goes on.
> 
> A particular saw gets beat by another saw by a tenth of a second and the loser has to hang his head in shame as if he just lost the Super Bowl.
> 
> ...



Oh but Spike its a second or less were discussing here, thats life or death in the junkie world,LOLOLOL

Reminds me of the 2 groundhog hunters. One was using a .243 shooting at 3500 feet per second and the other was using a .220 Swift shooting at 4100 feet per second. They both shot a ground hog each. The guy with the .220 boasted well my bullet reached my hog sooner than yours. The other guy said yeah but my hog is just as dead as yours........


----------



## belgian (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> If they do chances are good they will walk away thinking man that Belgian and Thall are nuts over chainsaws,LOLOL



You dag on tootin there Master....I thought the same about you when you first started posting with that Prince thread...

The biased crews were all over you ; you crawled through a huge river of crap but you came out clean on the other side... wouldn't have missed that fun for the world, LOLOL


----------



## spacemule (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Oh but Spike its a second or less were discussing here, thats life or death in the junkie world,LOLOLOL
> 
> Reminds me of the 2 groundhog hunters. One was using a .243 shooting at 3500 feet per second and the other was using a .220 Swift shooting at 4100 feet per second. They both shot a ground hog each. The guy with the .220 boasted well my bullet reached my hog sooner than yours. The other guy said yeah but my hog is just as dead as yours........



Your ole lady was telling me the other night, "you know mule, it may be true that Tommy has half as much length as you, but I'm just as knocked up!"


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

belgian said:


> You dag on tootin there Master....I thought the same about you when you first started posting with that Prince thread...
> 
> The biased crews were all over you ; you crawled through a huge river of crap but you came out clean on the other side... wouldn't have missed that fun for the world, LOLOL



LOLOLOLOL, that was a goodie wasn't it, man I hadem coming at me hard but hey, thats how I earned my name,LOLOLOLOL

I don't think I'm as bad I used to be though, hell I'm getting old. The ruff and tumble lost its shine, I just like to chime in now and play nice with everyone,


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

spacemule said:


> Your ole lady was telling me the other night, "you know mule, it may be true that Tommy has half as much length as you, but I'm just as knocked up!"



Is that right, well hell. Space I'm a firm beleiver in sharing. Tag her a few more times before ya send her home. Maybe she'll quit fussing and start cooking again,hahahahahaha


----------



## spacemule (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Is that right, well hell. Space I'm a firm beleiver in sharing. Tag her a few more times before ya send her home. Maybe she'll quit fussing and start cooking again,hahahahahaha



Why is it when I insult you I get a very nasty feeling?


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

spacemule said:


> Why is it when I insult you I get a very nasty feeling?



Oh that was a insult, hell you can do better than that can't ya,LOLOL


----------



## belgian (Feb 16, 2009)

This whole dolmar cylinder talk gots me thinking a lot lately...so I decided to get myself a saw without a cylinder...LOLOL.

this one burned a rather big hole in my wallet, but I wanted this piece of chainsaw history for a long time...:arg:

she's a runner (not perfect yet), and you'll notice the frond handle guard is missing a chunk...


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

belgian said:


> This whole dolmar cylinder talk gots me thinking a lot lately...so I decided to get myself a saw without a cylinder...LOLOL.
> 
> this one burned a rather big hole in my wallet, but I wanted this piece of chainsaw history for a long time...:arg:
> 
> she's a runner (not perfect yet), and you'll notice the frond handle guard is missing a chunk...




Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww nice, mymymymy, I want that, grrrrrrrrr


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 16, 2009)

belgian said:


> and you'll notice the frond handle guard is missing a chunk...



Piece of junk Dolmars, just falling apart like that!.....I'd bet 50 out of 50 did that samething. 

Should of bought an old Fihl or Musky.


----------



## spike60 (Feb 16, 2009)

weimedog said:


> Must be a hard thing...dealing "Husky, Jonsered, Dolmar, Red Max" knowing that any Echo/Stihl/Solo can beat any of those brands best saws of equal displacement on youtube! And I remember attending a GM conference about the "perception of quality". What wins on Sunday sells on Monday...true even with saws is what your telling me. Whats a dealer to do with all that informational static in the market place! I somehow think you can handle it.



Not sure how to interpret that post, since it is not very well written, but since the whole point of this thread is to argue, I accept. 

My post was about how much humor I found in the "saw beats saw" stuff, so, it's really not a "hard thing", or something I can't handle. The people who can't handle it are those who cry foul when their preferred saw comes up short in a meaningless contest. 

"Any Echo/Stihl/Solo" can indeed beat, or get beat by, any equal displacement saw of the brands I sell. My real point is that it is pointless. Most of the saws we talk about here are reasonably competetive in like displacements. 

But as far as selling goes, what happens here on AS, on Youtube, or in your own confused mind, has very little to do with what sells out in the real world. Regardless of how much winning is done on Sunday; Echo, Solo, Red Max, or Dolmar are not going to sell on Monday or any other day of the week in anything that approaches a significant number. (that's why I no longer carry Dolmar). Husky and Stihl are the big dogs in this world, and that is not something that is likely to change. 

I've been doing this a long time and I've seen this all before. Particularly with Dolmar. The idea that the 7900 is such a great saw that it will move the market is just a remake of an act that was played out 20 years ago. The 120si was a GREAT saw vs it's competition at the time, and if that didn't do it in a market that was far more open than it is now, you can stop dreaming about the 7900 making a difference today. Dolmar will remain where it has always been, great products, but out on the fringe of the market with little recognition. It's a shame, cause they make great stuff.

Solo, with copycat Dolmars at inflated prices, will continue to be a nobody going nowhere. 

Echo, like Red Max, is focused on trimmers and backpacks, and will never dent the saw market although they have decent product. Red Max is now getting some re-labled Huskys, but who cares? Nobody is going to buy them. It's hard enough to sell the Jonsereds. 

Ask a pro user who spends his time in the woods making his living while guys like you are making "cookie cartoons" on Youtube why he runs Husky or Stihl and you might learn a little bit about why those two brands are the only ones on the lead lap.


----------



## windthrown (Feb 16, 2009)

This thread has become quite the face slapping competition. To the point of deluded paranoia and mindless name calling. 

Keepit up boys!


----------



## PB (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> Not sure how to interpret that post, since it is not very well written, but since the whole point of this thread is to argue, I accept.
> 
> My post was about how much humor I found in the "saw beats saw" stuff, so, it's really not a "hard thing", or something I can't handle. The people who can't handle it are those who cry foul when their preferred saw comes up short in a meaningless contest.
> 
> ...



:agree2:




(Except for the selling of Jonsereds, they sell themselves with devilish good looks)


----------



## PB (Feb 16, 2009)

windthrown said:


> This thread has become quite the face slapping competition. To the point of deluded paranoia and mindless name calling.
> 
> Keepit up boys!



As long as it doesn't include you. Right Windy? 

Big baby will put you on his ignore list, not really an exclusive club either.


----------



## spike60 (Feb 16, 2009)

windthrown said:


> This thread has become quite the face slapping competition. To the point of deluded paranoia and mindless name calling.
> 
> Keepit up boys!



You're absolutely right, but it looked like everybody was having such a good time, so I figured I'd jump in the mud and join in the fun.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> Ask a pro user who spends his time in the woods making his living while guys like you are making "cookie cartoons" on Youtube why he runs Husky or Stihl and you might learn a little bit about why those two brands are the only ones on the lead lap.



That is one great line.:agree2:


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> That is one great line.:agree2:



No matter what your view, you gotta admit, that's a classic!


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

BIGBORE577 said:


> No matter what your view, you gotta admit, that's a classic!



I hit him with some rep for that. It is classic.


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> I hit him with some rep for that. It is classic.



me too


----------



## SawTroll (Feb 16, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> Last year at the OH spring GTG we ran both saws side by side in the same block. My 5100 had a good chain and the 346 was wearing 95vp.
> 
> Here are the times.
> andyshine 5100 6.81
> ...



I'm sure you know, as you pointed it out - but for other readers, the 95VP doesn't give that saw justice at all, Oregon LP and Stihl RSC is much better.


----------



## Woodie (Feb 16, 2009)

spacemule said:


> Your ole lady was telling me the other night, "you know mule, it may be true that Tommy has half as much length as you, but I'm just as knocked up!"



Let's not get into the spawn of satan, shall we?






.


----------



## spike60 (Feb 16, 2009)

About a month from now when the store gets really busy, I'm gonna miss all this.


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> About a month from now when the store gets really busy, I'm gonna miss all this.



In a site without Spikes, there would only be boredom.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> About a month from now when the store gets really busy, I'm gonna miss all this.



That means the weather will be nice though. Man Im looking forward to that this year. Its been a long winter.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

Woodie said:


> Let's not get into the spawn of satan, shall we?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whatcha talking fool, did I say you could come out the corner, get back in there and pulll that cone back on ya head,hehehehe


----------



## spike60 (Feb 16, 2009)

weimedog said:


> Must be a hard thing...dealing "Husky, Jonsered, Dolmar, Red Max" knowing that any Echo/Stihl/Solo can beat any of those brands best saws of equal displacement on youtube! And I remember attending a GM conference about the "perception of quality". What wins on Sunday sells on Monday...true even with saws is what your telling me. Whats a dealer to do with all that informational static in the market place! I somehow think you can handle it.



This just in..........After an exchange of PM's, it has come to my attention that in the above post my esteemed colleague was also poking fun at the hair splitting/cookie cutting nonsense, and had I given it a little more thought I would have realized there was nothing there for me to take offence at. So, I hereby apologize and withdraw all negative personal comments sent in his direction, and I will buy the beer we will share at the upstate GTG.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 16, 2009)

*What a thread.*



SawTroll said:


> I'm sure you know, as you pointed it out - but for other readers, the 95VP doesn't give that saw justice at all, Oregon LP and Stihl RSC is much better.



That was my point, most over looked it. With a good chain the 346 would have out cut my 5100, and no spike I'm not just a cartoon cookie cutter.


----------



## spike60 (Feb 16, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> and no spike I'm not just a cartoon cookie cutter.



No more accusations from me, I already blew it with weimedog.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> That was my point, most over looked it. With a good chain the 346 would have out cut my 5100, and no spike I'm not just a cartoon cookie cutter.



I got that from your thread. I just didn't want to go on and on with them. Let each believe as they may.


----------



## RNeurath (Feb 16, 2009)

Ironically I found this forum and as a result this thread searching for reviews and information on the 5100 to make a decision on a new saw purchase.Of course at first I was glad I took the time to research after reading all the negativity surrounding this pos! Close to 100% failure rate(one dealer}
Hell,your lucky to drive it home from the dealer without scoring the cylinder. 

The more I followed the back and forth I became skeptical of the trash talk as it seemed to be coming from the jealously of other brand loyalist or disgruntled ex employees.Anyway its been quiet entertaining.Now I want one worse than ever just to have a stake in this game,lol. 
Replacing a Makita 520i that has served me well for ten years.If I'm wrong it won't be the first time.Ron


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> No more accusations from me, I already blew it with weimedog.



How could you spike. I knew weimedog was a nice guy.LOL


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> I got that from your thread. I just didn't want to go on and on with them. Let each believe as they may.



Who's them??


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> No more accusations from me, I already blew it with weimedog.



I know Ive got myself in trouble more often then not on these forums. My only problem am IM RIGHT and no one believe's me.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Who's them??



How come you haven't invited me to become your friend yet.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> How come you haven't invited me to become your friend yet.



Because your one of them,LOLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

thall10326 said:


> because your one of them,lolololololol



oh lollol lol lol


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> No more accusations from me, I already blew it with weimedog.


 
Darn it.


----------



## weimedog (Feb 16, 2009)

spike60 said:


> This just in..........After an exchange of PM's, it has come to my attention that in the above post my esteemed colleague was also poking fun at the hair splitting/cookie cutting nonsense, and had I given it a little more thought I would have realized there was nothing there for me to take offence at. So, I hereby apologize and withdraw all negative personal comments sent in his direction, and I will buy the beer we will share at the upstate GTG.



I'm Speachless...for once..spike60 is a class act. 

(So how can we energize this part of the country into a good fun for everyone GTG? Had a CNY GTG post going but it died..I'll run my Homie XL-903 against your Dolmar PS-34 anytime!)


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> oh lollol lol lol



Ok, I invited ya to be what, yup, my freind. Ya better accept too or I'll have to get my stick and come after ya, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Ok, I invited ya to be what, yup, my freind. Ya better accept too or I'll have to get my stick and come after ya, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr



Just remeber who asked first. LOL


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Just remeber who asked first. LOL



Forget the stick, wheres my Louisville slugger, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Forget the stick, wheres my Louisville slugger, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr



You ever get season 6 watched


----------



## SawTroll (Feb 16, 2009)

RNeurath said:


> Ironically I found this forum and as a result this thread searching for reviews and information on the 5100 to make a decision on a new saw purchase.Of course at first I was glad I took the time to research after reading all the negativity surrounding this pos! Close to 100% failure rate(one dealer}
> Hell,your lucky to drive it home from the dealer without scoring the cylinder.
> 
> The more I followed the back and forth I became skeptical of the trash talk as it seemed to be coming from the jealously of other brand loyalist or disgruntled ex employees.Anyway its been quiet entertaining.Now I want one worse than ever just to have a stake in this game,lol.
> Replacing a Makita 520i that has served me well for ten years.If I'm wrong it won't be the first time.Ron



The 5100S is a very good saw, no doubt about that - the NE346xp just handles much better in the woods (also is a tad lighter), and is well worth the US price difference - imo.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> You ever get season 6 watched



Well hello ole buddy, ole pal old freind of mine. Say you got anymore of those Sopranos, man thats the best show ever. How many seasons have you got stached btw??????????????????????


----------



## SawTroll (Feb 16, 2009)

weimedog said:


> I'm Speachless...for once..spike60 is a class act.



He allways is. 

 to Spike, that is!


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Well hello ole buddy, ole pal old freind of mine. Say you got anymore of those Sopranos, man thats the best show ever. How many seasons have you got stached btw??????????????????????



I have the collection now.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> I have the collection now.



You got the whole collection, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so old friend ole buddy of mine whatcha say you put that set, THE WHOLE COLLECTION, in a box and send it to your ole buddy ole friend of yours here in Virginia, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm(begging my azz off here)


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> You got the whole collection, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so old friend ole buddy of mine whatcha say you put that set, THE WHOLE COLLECTION, in a box and send it to your ole buddy ole friend of yours here in Virginia, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm(begging my azz off here)



You want 1-3 also I know you watched those? My 4-6 is at my father place. As soon as he's done though. I will see what I can do.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> You want 1-3 also I know you watched those? My 4-6 is at my father place. As soon as he's done though. I will see what I can do.



Awwwwwwwwwwww your a good FRIEND ole boy, don't care what the rest say about ya, your ok in my book. Send what ya can, I'm begging and I'm not chosey,


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Awwwwwwwwwwww your a good FRIEND ole boy, don't care what the rest say about ya, your ok in my book. Send what ya can, I'm begging and I'm not chosey,



PM me you address again.


----------



## volks-man (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> PM me you address again.



can you mail DVDs to a correctional facility?
:greenchainsaw:


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> PM me you address again.



Addy has been sent. Now you know when I got the Sopranos I won't be on here much. I know its tuff but I'll try to watch through as fast as I can,LOL

Thanks Booker,


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

volks-man said:


> can you mail DVDs to a correctional facility?
> :greenchainsaw:



Calling Tony right now, you better hide in woods,hehehe


----------



## volks-man (Feb 16, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Calling Tony right now, you better hide in woods,hehehe



i saw 'the pine barrons' episode. those guys couldn't find *trees* in the woods!


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 16, 2009)

volks-man said:


> i saw 'the pine barrons' episode. those guys couldn't find *trees* in the woods!



LOL. I tell ya Tony cracks me up, he's so cool to be such a murdering bas-tard....


----------



## 166 (Feb 16, 2009)

belgian said:


> This whole dolmar cylinder talk gots me thinking a lot lately...so I decided to get myself a saw without a cylinder...LOLOL.
> 
> this one burned a rather big hole in my wallet, but I wanted this piece of chainsaw history for a long time...:arg:
> 
> she's a runner (not perfect yet), and you'll notice the frond handle guard is missing a chunk...



Looks like you got a clean KMS4! I'll email you some manuals on the saw here in a couple hours.

Steve


----------



## SawTroll (Feb 16, 2009)

166 said:


> Looks like you got a clean KMS4! I'll email you some manuals on the saw here in a couple hours.
> 
> Steve


----------



## belgian (Feb 17, 2009)

166 said:


> Looks like you got a clean KMS4! I'll email you some manuals on the saw here in a couple hours.
> 
> Steve



:yourock::yourock:


----------



## indiansprings (Feb 17, 2009)

The one thing that I picked upon after reading all thirty pages of this thread is that regardless of all the brand posturing, regardless of whether or not fifty 5100 saws went down is that Dolmar has a consistency issue when it comes to distributors/dealers. In this down turn of economic times there will be market consolidation and only the strongest will profit and survive. I predict that although Dolmar may survive it will continue to lose market share, Stihl and Husky although not perfect have much, much better compliance with corporate policies. Stihl and Husky both seem to have great marketing departments and understand that you must spend money to keep brand awareness at the top.
Although Dolmar may be a fine product, they do not understand how to market to the US consumer, their limited distro will only get smaller and smaller during these tough times. How many dealers tech for husky and stihl that read AS will use what they have read here if a potential customer ask about the 5100 when compared to the 346 or 361, telling the potential customer that dolmar has had a huge issue with premature failure with 5100's and that dealer service warranty can be spotty, hell I probably would, in these tough times a sale is a sale, the follow on sales of chain, bar oil, two stroke mix, files etc is where the real money is made.

Just my prediction, dolmar will struggle along, being able to survive unless they get their stuff together, Javelin may be a great guy but here in SW Missouri, 9 out of 10 people on the street would go SACHS what, no name recognition at all, that is the bottom line issue, it's either Stihl or Husky for the loggers and cutters in my area, they can't afford to run 80 to 100 miles for parts that may or may not be there, they can go to one of several stihl or husky dealers and get the part. 

MARKET CONSOLIDATION, it's going to happen. We'll see who the strong are, the rest will go by the wayside, I would keep this in mind when buying a saw.


----------



## PES+ (Feb 17, 2009)

*Ummmmmmm*

Sachs has been gone for YEARS


----------



## Javelin (Feb 17, 2009)

I somewhat agree! It is not that stihl or husky are better product I use to sell husky now I do the jonsered instead! But when it comes to marketing Stihl and husky dominate! The only other premium saw with name recognition is echo! Dolmar is working on this and it takes time! They are still doing the word of mouth thing which is good just not fast! As far as problems I am and have been treated very well! And since I have worked for a distribator in the past that I am not proud of I do know there are some bad distribators out there! Which in turn can sour a dealer and ultimatly the end user! By the way that is not totally accurate on stihl parts I find myself waiting on stuff often!


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 17, 2009)

PES+ said:


> Sachs has been gone for YEARS



What is a Sachs ????





.


----------



## weimedog (Feb 17, 2009)

Sachs the company has been around for a while in different forms. They have produced a variety of things from motorcycles, mopeds, chainsaws, to what they do now ..produce clutches and suspension components. Husqvarna motorcycles and others have used Sachs rear shock aborbers for years...But I'm pretty certain any chainsaw realated stuff is now all Dolmar. I'm not certain of the relationship between Sachs and Dolmar..they were related at somepoint. Also Sachs was a early "Wankle Motor" developer and manufacturer and I think(but not certain) they may have been the origional. A question for those with Wikipeda access I guess,


----------



## indiansprings (Feb 17, 2009)

They may have gone on for years, but are they growing market share, is profitability up, it takes both to have the money to compete in marketing and new item development, you think they pump the money into development like stihl and husky, Winchester used to be around for years, now the rifle and shotguns are just a licensed name, produced by a european company, Olin, the ammo division is the only truly Winchester product, this came as a result of poorer and poorer quality product from 1964 on, lack of marketing and product development. Sooner or later it'll catch up with you, remember when K Mart dominated retail. 

I'm not saying they are bad product, I'm saying by not practicing good sound business policies and ensuring distributor and dealer compliance they will suffer greatly in this economy. The customer has to be #1, sometimes even when they are dead damn wrong, you can't be jerked around for days/weeks waiting on warranty approval etc. If these saws are set lean and a higher percentage are failing than other models how hard is to set out a tech bulletin to have saws properly set before going out the door, and calling customers to come back in with those already in service for a free tune.
Corporate has to follow up to make sure distro's and dealers are in compliance. Not so hard to do, but it takes manpower, does Dolmar have the infastructure in place to do in the US like Stihl and Husky? Piss Poor Planning equals Piss Poor Performance.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 17, 2009)

Oh this Sachs ......I seem to have plenty of them old saws around ...





.


----------



## PES+ (Feb 17, 2009)

*I give up*

The Wankel was a Sachs design and they marketed a chainsaw and a couple of lawn mowers and some snowmobile engines.....Sachs also was building mopeds and small motorcycles as well as industrial conventional 2 strokes that were used in snowmobiles and other applications like generators and pumps.

Makita is the parent of Dolmar now.


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 17, 2009)

Sachs? I think they are over on 5th Avenue.


----------



## BIGBORE577 (Feb 17, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Oh this Sachs ......I seem to have plenty of them old saws around ...
> 
> .



Cuz you are old.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 17, 2009)

BIGBORE577 said:


> Cuz you are old.



My hip is telling me that .......





.


----------



## Kemper (Feb 17, 2009)

Wow! what a thread this has turned out to be.
I guess it depends on what area your from when it comes to service,sales and parts, here in iowa i have 9 dealers within 60 miles from me,and Dolmar is a well known brand around here,i for one have not had any problems with parts for my saws or any defects as has been mentioned here on this site.

Maybe their sales are stronger in the other countries than they are here?

I also believe that sooner or later all saw companys will allow saws to be sold and shipped on the internet then lookout small town dealers,it will hurt all of them trying to compete in this day and age.


----------



## joatmon (Feb 17, 2009)

*Summary Judgement*

Tommie,

I'll save you a little typing so you can get back to Tony and his world. I know this is what you want to tell Niko and all the NE346XP and 5100 fanboys here on AS.

The MS290 will have more sales than the NE346XP and 5100 combined. Last year, this year, next year, or even fifteen years ago with the 029. It doesn't matter.

That extra pound or two the 290 sports doesn't mean alot when the saw in laying on the log cutting rounds. What matters is:
- Does it start?
- Can I get service?
- Is it reliable?
- Will it last?
- Is it a value?

Now, taking an educated guess here, but the 029/MS290 has been a great cash cow for Stihl. I wonder how many pro saws they would sell if they didn't have the "homeowner" line of saws, blowers, trimmer, etc.? I wonder if they'd even be in the saw business if they didn't have the "homeowner" line to carry them.

Now, don't get me wrong. Low weight and big balls appeal to me as well as most on this site. Somebody mentioned "win on Saturday and sell on Monday." It was originally "win on Sunday", but riddle me this. You suppose ole Matt sitting on the apron at Daytona on Sunday eve in the rain and being told he'd won the race led to a banner day yesterday (Monday) at Ford dealerships? Ha.

No, today, most consumers are a bit more savy when spending more than a few dollars. Cutting fast rounds leads to saw sales? Ha.

What do they want?
1. Dealership that's clean.
2. Dealership that serves tepid Folgers.
3. Dealership that's been in business a long time.
4. Brand that has presence, like national marketing.
5. Dealership that plays Elvis music.
6. Dealership that has product on shelf.
7. Dealership that services its product.
8. Dealership that has low, low prices.
9. Dealership that starts your saw and demonstates it.

Now, add the numbers of the things that matter to most consumers. Divide by the Stihl hat size you wear. Round the result to the nearest whole integer and by magic, the answer appears.

I remain,

Joat


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 17, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Tommie,
> 
> I'll save you a little typing so you can get back to Tony and his world. I know this is what you want to tell Niko and all the NE346XP and 5100 fanboys here on AS.
> 
> ...





*Priceless !!!*




.


----------



## windthrown (Feb 17, 2009)

joatman, you are just adding to the 290 and Stihl: 

Conspiracy! 

Since you are speaking for Tommy (Elvis) Hall, here is a rebuttal from the SawTroll perspective above the arctic circle: 

I bet that Tommy Hall paid you to write that post! And he was in turn backed by Stihl, in an effort to undermind Dolmar and Husqvarna chainsaw sales! It is an obvious plot to mezmorize the AS readers into thinking that the 290 is actually a good saw, and worth the money for what is does and can do. And to convince all those anonymous readers that punch into Arboristsite, but never log in or become members of the sawing clan here. In reality, Stihl is just selling boat anchors to the unwiley of chainsaw customers and using smoke and mirrors (and posts like yours) to sell more chainsaws. That saw has terrible AV and has crappy power to weight ratio. Its all plastic, hard to rebuild, and why would anyone really want to buy a chainsaw like that, when they can buy something far far more reliable, ergonomic, and easy to use??? 

Oh yes, and I Stihl  my (ex)290!


----------



## SawTroll (Feb 17, 2009)

joatmon said:


> That extra pound or two the 290 sports doesn't mean alot when the saw in laying on the log cutting rounds.


_More_ than two lbs, vs. the 346xp....


----------



## weimedog (Feb 17, 2009)

Hard to beat the punch per buck of that MS290..

MS290, 56.5cc,3.8HP, 13.0LBS (No bar) $359-$379
MS270, 50.0cc, 3.4HP, 11.7Lbs (No Bar) $400plus


Dolmar PS 5100S, 50.7cc, 3.9HP, 11.2Lbs (No Bar) $400plus.
Dolmar PS 510, 50.7cc, 3.3HP, 12.1LBS (No Bar) $350plus

Husqvarna 450e, 50.2cc, 3.2HP, 11.33Lbs (No bar); $350 plus
Husqvarna 455 Rancher, 55.5, 3.5HP, 13.2Lbs (No Bar); $350-$400ebay(new)
Husqvarna 353,51.7, 3.3HP, 11.0Lbs (No bar); $400 Plus


So what saw can you buy new for around $375 with 3.8 or more HP?

See..the real conspiracy is dropping this crap all around the web about those 5100s issues to dry up demand for those Dolmar 5100s hot rod saws..then the dealers and distributer will let the "new" price of a Dolmar5100s drop down in the $350 Range or less and then all the CAD "enthusiasts" snap them up for a low price!


----------



## volks-man (Feb 17, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Now, don't get me wrong. Low weight and big balls appeal to me
> 
> 
> as well as most on this site.
> ...


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 17, 2009)

weimedog said:


> Hard to beat the punch per buck of that MS290..
> 
> MS290, 56.5cc,3.8HP, 13.0LBS (No bar) $359-$379
> MS270, 50.0cc, 3.4HP, 11.7Lbs (No Bar) $400plus
> ...



I see a lot of tree services running the 029/290's .....They seem to hold up really good ...



Around here the 5100's are selling at 375.00 out the door tax included 18" ..




.


----------



## joatmon (Feb 17, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> _More_ than two lbs, vs. the 346xp....



Niko,

Well, I'm not interested enough to check the specs or go to one of them German websites that test saws, so, I'll agree.

It really matters little to most homeowners in the USA, as I suspect we are a heartier lot than what you're used to.

If the weight of the 290 bothers you, trade it for a lightweight, less powerful Husky, or my personal favorite suggestion, hit the gym.

I may cast my gaze past the big, ported saws this weekend and play the FarmBoss song. Any of you lightweight Husky fellas want to sing the saprano part?

Joat


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Tommie,
> 
> I'll save you a little typing so you can get back to Tony and his world. I know this is what you want to tell Niko and all the NE346XP and 5100 fanboys here on AS.
> 
> ...



Now I wouldn't say all that to my buddy Troll or anyone else, just not my style to boast in such terms, yes I'm lying my azz off,hehe. I would say it more like this. Stihl focused on market activity many years ago concerning who is buying the saws. They found the homeowners were a much bigger segmet than first thought. They also seen the decline of the so called lumberjack in the USA. They jumped into the homeowner market with products designed well in advance. The 290 type saw wasn't built on a whim but after years of market study. They for the longest time had no homeowner type saws to offer the public. They built their reputation in pro saws over the years and when they made availble the 290 along with a slew of other homeowner saws the public scooped them up like wild fire. The timing was perfecto.

They, the public, not the pro user, now had a low cost saw with the big Stihl name on it and got with it the same service and back up Stihl pro saws have. That handed Stihl a whole new market and they've yet to slow down in it. The 290 type saws in the market they were made to satisfy has done extremely well. 

Stihl does something no other saw manufacture does. They forecast as much as 8 years down the road or as many would say into the future. They spend millions doing this but in doing so they are always ready and have product to satisfy market demand. In other words Stihl does its homework much better than any other saw manufacture in the world. The rest can't do what Stihl does because they have stock holders with their hands out all the time. Stihl has no one to answer to but Stihl.

I do agree with your list Joat. It seems to be and has been all along what keeps Stihl where they are. Everyone cept Stihl has tried every way possible to gain market. Husky went net, still are with the small stuff, Dolmar countinues wasting its time undercutting everyone in price, only hurting themselves overall. They have gained no more name reconition doing that, in fact those low prices may well cause some to think hmmmm, must not be much if they're that cheap. They should up thier prices and make some money to market with. Surviving on the cheap only lasts so long. Stihl continues to do busines as usual like they have for decades. Make a product, market it, deliver it and sell it, stand behind it after the sale, simple as that. No thrills, just business as always.


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## rahtreelimbs (Feb 17, 2009)

All this gack back and forth about which saw is faster is amusing. I used to get caught up in all this but came to the realization that it is all moot. The difference is so small that it doesn't at all matter. If your happy with the saw and have a dealer like Thall's what is not to like???


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

rahtreelimbs said:


> All this gack back and forth about which saw is faster is amusing. I used to get caught up in all this but came to the realization that it is all moot. The difference is so small that it doesn't at all matter. If your happy with the saw and have a dealer like Thall's what is not to like???



Rich there's a huge mis-conception in the saw world concerning speed. There are those where a second is life and death, the small crowd, then there are the millions on top of millions who could care less. I myself have never gone to the woods to race someone, I've always gone to the woods to saw wood. I'm 100% positive I'm in the majority,


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## rahtreelimbs (Feb 17, 2009)

rahtreelimbs said:


> All this gack back and forth about which saw is faster is amusing. I used to get caught up in all this but came to the realization that it is all moot. The difference is so small that it doesn't at all matter. If your happy with the saw and have a dealer like Thall's what is not to like???





THALL10326 said:


> Rich there's a huge mis-conception in the saw world concerning speed. *There are those where a second is life and death, the small crowd,* then there are the millions on top of millions who could care less. I myself have never gone to the woods to race someone, I've always gone to the woods to saw wood. I'm 100% positive I'm in the majority,




Pertaining to the highlighted portion............get a life!!!


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## Javelin (Feb 17, 2009)

Boy this thread has covered a bunch of stuff

Yes the 290 is decent for the price especially if you fall for the Hp rating on the saw! That saw reminds me of the old Pro Mac 605 heavy and they were all over the place!


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## volks-man (Feb 17, 2009)

Javelin said:


> Boy this thread has covered a bunch of stuff
> 
> Yes the 290 is decent for the price especially if you fall for the Hp rating on the saw! That saw reminds me of the old Pro Mac 605 heavy and they were all over the place!



curious:
what would be a better estimate of actual hp?


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

Two of my Buds, that I cut wood with have the 029/290s and for a plastic saw they're not bad and have been reliable for them but with that said......THEY'RE NO 5100s......Even as much as they hate to admit it, they know it too!


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## Kemper (Feb 17, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> Two of my Buds, that I cut wood with have the 029/290s and for a plastic saw they're not bad and have been reliable for them but with that said......THEY'RE NO 5100s......Even as much as they hate to admit it, they know it too!





Exactly.


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## aandabooks (Feb 17, 2009)

While I don't have the 290, I do have the 310. With a muffler mod and 18" b/c just like I have my 5100 setup, the 310 is faster. They were both the same price, $395 5100 and $399 310. The 5100 is smoother and lighter but the 310 pulls ahead as soon as the wood hits 12". The 310 has the clear advantage when I've buried the bars in 20" elm. At that point, I'm pushing down on the saw more than holding up, so the weight is even less of an issue. 

I'm very happy with both saws. Haven't need any service of the 310 and the chain adjuster that broke on the 5100, my dealer had the part the next afternoon. He even offered to take it off one of his display saws if I needed the saw back in service pronto.


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## Kemper (Feb 17, 2009)

aandabooks said:


> While I don't have the 290, I do have the 310. With a muffler mod and 18" b/c just like I have my 5100 setup, the 310 is faster. They were both the same price, $395 5100 and $399 310. The 5100 is smoother and lighter but the 310 pulls ahead as soon as the wood hits 12". The 310 has the clear advantage when I've buried the bars in 20" elm. At that point, I'm pushing down on the saw more than holding up, so the weight is even less of an issue.
> 
> I'm very happy with both saws. Haven't need any service of the 310 and the chain adjuster that broke on the 5100, my dealer had the part the next afternoon. He even offered to take it off one of his display saws if I needed the saw back in service pronto.



The 310 pulls ahead because it is a bigger saw than the 5100, but you have to give the 5100 credit,they will lay right in there and cut with the big boys!!


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## Tim Carroll (Feb 17, 2009)

I have both the 029 and the 5100 S. I like my 029, it has given me over ten years of reliable service but it is not even close my 5100 in the wood. That said, I will never give up my 029 till it dies. I know it's heavy for the power it puts out and the AV sucks, but I beat the crap out of it and it still runs great. I wanted something a little better so I bought the 5100 S and it's a big improvement. It cuts faster and vibrates much less but then again ten years ago my 029 was a big improvement over my Pro Mac 610. I think that Stihl designed a great saw for the average homeowner/firewood cutter like me but it is like everything else, newer and better designs will eventually replace it. 

PS If Saw Troll thinks the 029 has a bad power to weight ratio, he should try my Pro Mac 610. I'm not sure what it weighs but it is a tank!


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Kemper said:


> The 310 pulls ahead because it is a bigger saw than the 5100, but you have to give the 5100 credit,they will lay right in there and cut with the big boys!!



That they will, for 50cc's the 5100 is a mean little saw, no question about it. I think cc for cc its the strongest 50cc out there though it only matters to a small group of buyers. Its a shame Dolmar, for whatever reason, decides to sell them so cheap. If I were Dolmar that 5100 would be priced right along with the 260Pro Stihl, around 519.00. The 7900 would be right at 889.95 just like the MS460 Stihl. I've never understood Dolmar's pricing structure at all. Why has Dolmar decided to sell for less when obviously they don't have to with the way their products perform? I don't understand it at all.


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Its a shame Dolmar, for whatever reason, decides to sell them so cheap. If I were Dolmar that 5100 would be priced right along with the 260Pro Stihl, around 519.00. The 7900 would be right at 889.95 just like the MS460 Stihl. I've never understood Dolmar's pricing structure at all. Why has Dolmar decided to sell for less when obviously they don't have to with the way their products perform? I don't understand it at all.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Fastcast said:


>



Awwwwwwwwww are you saying you wouldn't pay 519.95 for a 5100 knowing how well it runs, why not?


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Awwwwwwwwww are you saying you wouldn't pay 519.95 for a 5100 knowing how well it runs, why not?



:bang:........


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> :bang:........



Grrrrrrrrrrrrr now ya telling me the appeal is in the price , not the performance, shames on ya, may Dolmar raise prices first thing in the morning,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## volks-man (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Grrrrrrrrrrrrr now ya telling me the appeal is in the price , not the performance, shames on ya, may Dolmar raise prices first thing in the morning,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:





Fastcast said:


> :bang:........



:agree2: fastcast


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## mowoodchopper (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> That they will, for 50cc's the 5100 is a mean little saw, no question about it. I think cc for cc its the strongest 50cc out there though it only matters to a small group of buyers. Its a shame Dolmar, for whatever reason, decides to sell them so cheap. If I were Dolmar that 5100 would be priced right along with the 260Pro Stihl, around 519.00. The 7900 would be right at 889.95 just like the MS460 Stihl. I've never understood Dolmar's pricing structure at all. Why has Dolmar decided to sell for less when obviously they don't have to with the way their products perform? I don't understand it at all.



That is how they are priced out here! Alot higher than I see guys getting them elsewhere!


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

volks-man said:


> :agree2: fastcast



Okkkkkkkkkkkk its two to nothing, price matters most, next,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

Now you Dolmar fans know I'm beginning to expose why you guys really like those Dolmars and its not the performance everyone notes, shames on ya, GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

mowoodchopper said:


> That is how they are priced out here! Alot higher than I see guys getting them elsewhere!




Well good, thats how they should be priced. Giving away your product when it performs as good as anyone elses is non-sense............


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Grrrrrrrrrrrrr now ya telling me the appeal is in the price , not the performance, shames on ya, may Dolmar raise prices first thing in the morning,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



I'm trying to tell ya, I don't want to see 'em over inflated like them Stihls! :fart:


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> I'm trying to tell ya, I don't want to see 'em over inflated like them Stihls! :fart:



Stihl isn't over inflated at all, the sales prove that. 

Now I'll give one last chance Fast, lets keep Dolmar up and running and help them grow the market by paying more for them so they can make a buck, your all for that aren't ya????


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## volks-man (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Okkkkkkkkkkkk its two to nothing, price matters most, next,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Now you Dolmar fans know I'm beginning to expose why you guys really like those Dolmars and its not the performance everyone notes, shames on ya, GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR



so,
if the corvette sold for $20,000 instead of $70,000 (unchanged) wouldn't it still be just as fast, yet sell more?

performance is great....
if you can afford it.
:deadhorse:


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Stihl isn't over inflated at all, the sales prove that.
> 
> Now I'll give one last chance Fast, lets keep Dolmar up and running and help them grow the market by paying more for them so they can make a buck, your all for that aren't ya????



Guess I'm more frugal than most, who buy all the marketing hype instead of just the saw.....The Dolmars are priced right!....IMO

:notrolls2:


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

volks-man said:


> so,
> if the corvette sold for $20,000 instead of $70,000 (unchanged) wouldn't it still be just as fast, yet sell more?
> 
> performance is great....
> ...



We're not talking thousands of dollars, just little more than a 100.00. 

Back to you example though lets put it in saw terms. Stihl is the $70,000 Corvette and the Dolmar is the $20,000 Corvette yet the $70,000 Corvette outsells the $20,000 Corvette by a huge margin, why? 

(I know the answer, I'll wait for yours)


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## volks-man (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> We're not talking thousands of dollars, just little more than a 100.00.
> 
> Back to you example though lets put it in saw terms. Stihl is the $70,000 Corvette and the Dolmar is the $20,000 Corvette yet the $70,000 Corvette outsells the $20,000 Corvette by a huge margin, why?
> 
> (I know the answer, I'll wait for yours)



the illusion of quality based on price.

i know you know the answer. you sell it (the illusion) everyday.:biggrinbounce2:

(oh, and if you could buy a vette for 20k...
people would buy them with a dealer nearby or not.)


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> We're not talking thousands of dollars, just little more than a 100.00.
> 
> Back to you example though lets put it in saw terms. Stihl is the $70,000 Corvette and the Dolmar is the $20,000 Corvette yet the $70,000 Corvette outsells the $20,000 Corvette by a huge margin, why?
> 
> (I know the answer, I'll wait for yours)




Does Poulan sell more saws than Stihl? :dunno:


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> Guess I'm more frugal than most, who buy all the marketing hype instead of just the saw.....The Dolmars are priced right!....IMO
> 
> :notrolls2:



Your getting close to my point. They could do alot more marketing and grow in the market if someone would pay for their saws at competitive prices.

(cuse me Fast, Dolmar is on my cell, whats that, yeah I'm working on them, go ahead and raise the prices, lets see how much performance matters,LOL)


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

volks-man said:


> the illusion of quality based on price.
> 
> i know you know the answer. you sell it (the illusion) everyday.:biggrinbounce2:
> 
> ...



You haven't answered the question though, how do those high price Stihl's outsell those lower price Dolmars. Come on you know the answer, spit it out...


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## volks-man (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Your getting close to my point. They could do alot more marketing and grow in the market if someone would pay for their saws at competitive prices.
> 
> (cuse me Fast, Dolmar is on my cell, whats that, yeah I'm working on them, go ahead and raise the prices, lets see how much performance matters,LOL)



i know you are kidding and all. *if all else is equal *and the dolmar outperforms the stihl then the dolmar will sell more.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> Does Poulan sell more saws than Stihl? :dunno:



Nobody sells more saws than Stihl, not Poulan, not anyone. Brand for brand no one, combine all the differant brands under Husky they might, but name for name, no one.

I will tell you this, Poulans sell more Stihls than any other saw made..


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## bookerdog (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Your getting close to my point. They could do alot more marketing and grow in the market if someone would pay for their saws at competitive prices.
> 
> (cuse me Fast, Dolmar is on my cell, whats that, yeah I'm working on them, go ahead and raise the prices, lets see how much performance matters,LOL)



Are we still on this thread? Seems like we've been here a month now. You know what would happen to dolmar if they rasied there prices with so little marketing.


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Your getting close to my point. They could do alot more marketing and grow in the market if someone would pay for their saws at competitive prices.
> 
> (cuse me Fast, Dolmar is on my cell, whats that, yeah I'm working on them, go ahead and raise the prices, lets see how much performance matters,LOL)




Even if the prices were equal, I'd buy the Dolmar because the best saw dealer in my area sells Dolmar. I also prefer the way the Dolmars perform as compared to Stihl.  

As far as the lower price goes....momma and dadda didn't raise no fool....the money is always better in my pocket than yours!


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## volks-man (Feb 17, 2009)

volks-man said:


> the illusion of quality based on price.
> 
> i know you know the answer. you sell it (the illusion) everyday.:biggrinbounce2:
> 
> ...





THALL10326 said:


> You haven't answered the question though, how do those high price Stihl's outsell those lower price Dolmars. Come on you know the answer, spit it out...



i answered your first question about the vettes.

this is a new question and there are too many reasons to list.
to that end....
so stihl is king, right? i guess no other company should even try to sell a saw any more?


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## volks-man (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Nobody sells more saws than Stihl, not Poulan, not anyone. Brand for brand no one, combine all the differant brands under Husky they might, but name for name, no one.
> 
> I will tell you this, *Poulans sell more Stihls than any other saw made*..


funny!
:hmm3grin2orange: 
and probably true.


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> Are we still on this thread? Seems like we've been here a month now. You know what would happen to dolmar if they rasied there prices with so little marketing.



But you keep comin back for more!


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

volks-man said:


> so stihl is king, right? i guess no other company should even try to sell a saw any more?



Nope, Tommy-T-Bone is King! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## bookerdog (Feb 17, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> But you keep comin back for more!



I got to set everyone right you know. Its my job. LOL


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## Kemper (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> That they will, for 50cc's the 5100 is a mean little saw, no question about it. I think cc for cc its the strongest 50cc out there though it only matters to a small group of buyers. Its a shame Dolmar, for whatever reason, decides to sell them so cheap. If I were Dolmar that 5100 would be priced right along with the 260Pro Stihl, around 519.00. The 7900 would be right at 889.95 just like the MS460 Stihl. I've never understood Dolmar's pricing structure at all. Why has Dolmar decided to sell for less when obviously they don't have to with the way their products perform? I don't understand it at all.




You know the old saying, " i don't know how they make them so good and sell them so cheap"

Actually i wouldn't have thought twice about paying the 519.00 or maybe a little more even for this saw, myself i have never been one to price shop and then think that i saved a couple bucks and got a better product, it's not like i buy a new saw every year anyway,i'm more concerned with performance than saving a few bucks on a saw.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

volks-man said:


> i know you are kidding and all. *if all else is equal *and the dolmar outperforms the stihl then the dolmar will sell more.




Grrrrrrrrrr your playing dumb with me and you know it. Simple math. A 5100 is about 120.00 less than a 260PRO Stihl. Across the board Dolmar is about 100.00 to whatever less than Stihl. They (Dolmar) sold around 550,000 units last year. 550,000 times 100.00 is 55 million bucks. 

Stihl spent over 50 million in advertising last year saturating the market. Dolmar could do the samething if they had that extra money they are giving away by selling for less.

Thats why they should sell right on par with Stihl. One thing is for certain, Stihl will never sell on par with Dolmar's prices becuase that would cost them their marketing advantage. Husky is wising up fast and look at their prices of late, right on par with who, Stihl. Time Dolmar done the same to compete in the market with ample money to do so...


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> I got to set everyone right you know. Its my job. LOL


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## aandabooks (Feb 17, 2009)

Kemper said:


> The 310 pulls ahead because it is a bigger saw than the 5100, but you have to give the 5100 credit,they will lay right in there and cut with the big boys!!





THALL10326 said:


> That they will, for 50cc's the 5100 is a mean little saw, no question about it. I think cc for cc its the strongest 50cc out there though it only matters to a small group of buyers. Its a shame Dolmar, for whatever reason, decides to sell them so cheap. If I were Dolmar that 5100 would be priced right along with the 260Pro Stihl, around 519.00. The 7900 would be right at 889.95 just like the MS460 Stihl. I've never understood Dolmar's pricing structure at all. Why has Dolmar decided to sell for less when obviously they don't have to with the way their products perform? I don't understand it at all.



I was basing my comparison on the fact that they both sell for right at $400 with an 18" bar. Not comparing cc. I realize the 310 is the bigger cc saw and that's why it pulls ahead. But both can be bought for the same $$$. They both have their advantages to each other. Overall the 5100 is the nicer saw to run in the smaller wood. And if you don't mind the extra couple of seconds in the larger wood, it performs well there also.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Kemper said:


> You know the old saying, " i don't know how they make them so good and sell them so cheap"
> 
> Actually i wouldn't have thought twice about paying the 519.00 or maybe a little more even for this saw, myself i have never been one to price shop and then think that i saved a couple bucks and got a better product, it's not like i buy a new saw every year anyway,i'm more concerned with performance than saving a few bucks on a saw.




I agree but never shoot yourself in the foot by undercutting when you don't have too. I have a 5100, tuff little saw and powerfull. If I wanted another one and its has gone up to 519.95 so be it, I'll buy it at 519.95.


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## bookerdog (Feb 17, 2009)

What is interesting with there 100 dollars less across the board at first was closer to 200. I don't think I would of even thought of getting and trying 5100 if they were the same as ms260. I think my first 5100 was 339.00


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## volks-man (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Grrrrrrrrrr your playing dumb with me and you know it. Simple math. A 5100 is about 120.00 less than a 260PRO Stihl. Across the board Dolmar is about 100.00 to whatever less than Stihl. They (Dolmar) sold around 550,000 units last year. 550,000 times 100.00 is 55 million bucks.
> 
> Stihl spent over 50 million in advertising last year saturating the market. Dolmar could do the samething if they had that extra money they are giving away by selling for less.
> 
> Thats why they should sell right on par with Stihl. One thing is for certain, Stihl will never sell on par with Dolmar's prices becuase that would cost them their marketing advantage. Husky is wising up fast and look at their prices of late, right on par with who, Stihl. Time Dolmar done the same to compete in the market with ample money to do so...



i am not playing dumb.
i look at things through different eyes.
if dolmar raised their prices by $100 across the board their sales would drop, at least initially. dolmars problems lie not in price but in structure.
yes, they could learn a lot from stihl in that regard.


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

aandabooks said:


> I was basing my comparison on the fact that they both sell for right at $400 with an 18" bar. Not comparing cc. I realize the 310 is the bigger cc saw and that's why it pulls ahead. But both can be bought for the same $$$. They both have their advantages to each other. Overall the 5100 is the nicer saw to run in the smaller wood. And if you don't mind the extra couple of seconds in the larger wood, it performs well there also.



Is your muffler modded on your 50cc, 5100....like it is on your 59cc muffler modded 310 you're comparing it to?


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

aandabooks said:


> I was basing my comparison on the fact that they both sell for right at $400 with an 18" bar. Not comparing cc. I realize the 310 is the bigger cc saw and that's why it pulls ahead. But both can be bought for the same $$$. They both have their advantages to each other. Overall the 5100 is the nicer saw to run in the smaller wood. And if you don't mind the extra couple of seconds in the larger wood, it performs well there also.




I know what you was saying. What I'm pointing out is the 5100 cc for cc is one mean little saw. Sadly I'm finding out though some don't love the 5100 and its performance enuff to pay what its really worth, shame on them, not you now, I've only caught two so far, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

volks-man said:


> i am not playing dumb.
> i look at things through different eyes.
> if dolmar raised their prices by $100 across the board their sales would drop, at least initially. dolmars problems lie not in price but in structure.
> yes, they could learn a lot from stihl in that regard.



Well its take alot of money to build a structure. If they don't charge enuff for their product where is the money going to ever come from. I doult seriously their sales would go down if their prices went up. They have a following like Stihl and Husky. They just aren't making the bucks like the other two to build the structure and its at their own choosing, thats why I said I don't understand their pricing structure at all....


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## volks-man (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> I know what you was saying. What I'm pointing out is the 5100 cc for cc is one mean little saw. Sadly I'm finding out though some don't love the 5100 and its performance enuff to pay what its really worth, shame on them, not you now, I've only caught two so far, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



you can't have it both ways.
if the dolmar were the same price as the stihl you would then tell me about the stihl dealer network, or the parts availability, or how stihl is the most trusted name in saws by pros.

lets argue one thing at a time. 
*all else equal,* cheaper sell more. *all else equal*, cheaper and more powerful.....


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> I know what you was saying. What I'm pointing out is the 5100 cc for cc is one mean little saw. Sadly I'm finding out though some don't love the 5100 and its performance enuff to pay what its really worth, shame on them, not you now, I've only caught two so far, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



No, we just don't love Stihl performance enough to pay their inflated prices!


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

bookerdog said:


> What is interesting with there 100 dollars less across the board at first was closer to 200. I don't think I would of even thought of getting and trying 5100 if they were the same as ms260. I think my first 5100 was 339.00



339.00, outragously too cheap............................


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> No, we just don't love Stihl performance enough to pay their inflated prices!



Do you love Dolmar performance enuff to pay a Stihl price for it?

(gonna getcha now,hehe)


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

volks-man said:


> you can't have it both ways.
> if the dolmar were the same price as the stihl you would then tell me about the stihl dealer network, or the parts availability, or how stihl is the most trusted name in saws by pros.
> 
> lets argue one thing at a time.
> *all else equal,* cheaper sell more. *all else equal*, cheaper and more powerful.....



Ever think maybe those things are the structure you spoke of, they cost money.

If cheaper sells more than how does Stihl sell more for more?? (structure)


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Do you love Dolmar performance enuff to pay a Stihl price for it?
> 
> (gonna getcha now,hehe)



How many times I gotta say it King.....I like Dolmars price! I don't like Stihls price. Frankly, I love neither. :taped:


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> How many times I gotta say it King.....I like Dolmars price! I don't like Stihls price. Frankly, I love neither. :taped:



Everyone likes Dolmar's price, the big complaint has always been their structure. I'm just baffled how they ever plan on building it selling for less..


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## Fastcast (Feb 17, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Everyone likes Dolmar's price, the big complaint has always been their structure. I'm just baffled how they ever plan on building it selling for less..



I'll let them figure it out! 

ps.....quit working for free Tommy.


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## Woodie (Feb 17, 2009)

Too much fussin' and carryin' on over the same sheeyat on this thread...I think it's high time we change the subject to something that HASN'T been beaten into the ground.

*To wit: What is the best color for a Lab. I say it's yellow, and I say anyone that doesn't agree with me is a danm fool!!*

And as irrefutable proof, I submit this video:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/s6JxAqKLASQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/s6JxAqKLASQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



We now return you to our regularly scheduled bickering.




.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> Even if the prices were equal, I'd buy the Dolmar because the best saw dealer in my area sells Dolmar. I also prefer the way the Dolmars perform as compared to Stihl.
> 
> As far as the lower price goes....momma and dadda didn't raise no fool....the money is always better in my pocket than yours!



Well I take you off my price shopper list and you prove my point, you would pay a higher price for the Dolmar. Many others would as well. Time Dolmar realised that,


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> I'll let them figure it out!
> 
> ps.....quit working for free Tommy.




This isn't for free, my check is in the mail. I had to get one person to admit they would pay more for Dolmar, thanks Fast, you said you would,LOLOLOLOL


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## THALL10326 (Feb 17, 2009)

Woodie said:


> Too much fussin' and carryin' on over the same sheeyat on this thread...I think it's high time we change the subject to something that HASN'T been beaten into the ground.
> 
> *To wit: What is the best color for a Lab. I say it's yellow, and I say anyone that doesn't agree with me is a danm fool!!*
> 
> ...



Tant no bickering going on. I've decided to put Dolmar on the map. Time I'm done they will have enuff marketing money to go after the big cats and slap em around alittle bit. I suggest you go hide, your one of those cats buddy,hehehehe


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## aandabooks (Feb 18, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> Is your muffler modded on your 50cc, 5100....like it is on your 59cc muffler modded 310 you're comparing it to?



Nope, it's under warranty and I haven't even looked for a spare one on ebay yet. I have pulled the limiter caps and richened the saw up just a bit.



THALL10326 said:


> I know what you was saying. What I'm pointing out is the 5100 cc for cc is one mean little saw. Sadly I'm finding out though some don't love the 5100 and its performance enuff to pay what its really worth, shame on them, not you now, I've only caught two so far, :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



If the Dolmar was $519, I'd buy a 260. I already had a Stihl dealer I am more than happy with. I wouldn't have been willing to try a Dolmar at the same price.


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## windthrown (Feb 18, 2009)

Woodie said:


> *To wit: What is the best color for a Lab. I say it's yellow, and I say anyone that doesn't agree with me is a danm fool!!*



*Black* is the best color for labs. opcorn: 

Orange is the best color for saws. opcorn:


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## joatmon (Feb 18, 2009)

*'Mornin' Tommie*

Tommie,

Well, you had 'em in a tizzy last evening. Dolmar's are so good and Stihl's so expensive. Now, look to Cincinnati, find P&G and wander into their marketing department. it's called BRANDING. No, it's not what you do to your cattle. It's not what you do to your girlfriend. (Tommie, don't ever try to brand the inflatable Miss Demi)

Stihl is a brand. A brand that everyone knows and covets. Branding doesn't allow you to have exclusive sales, but proper branding will allow and support a leadership, price maker position. Now, some will always "buy on price" or "look for the deal". Search the threads and you'll see how ole Tommie deals with these folks. He can and will continue this practice, but a brand built on price, well, let's just say this is their target market.

I tell you a little TommieTale here. A man goes to see Tommie and buys a 290. He's happy. He's proud of it. He cuts with it. He wipes it down and keeps it clean. He shows it to his wife and kids. He leaves it sitting in the driveway for several hours after finished cutting so his neighbors will see that "he's a Stihl man". He buys the best. Nothing's too good for him and his family. He takes solice in the fact that his dealer has been on the corner for as long as he can remember, shiney store, parts galore, and a smile when you come through the door.

Now, his neighbor buys a Dolmar or Poulan. Great price. More balls than a Stihl at less money. He's happy ...... until Fred, his neighbor mentions that he got the same saw on sale for $20 less. Fred's probably streching the truth, but, remorse has visited our friend.

Yes, the TommieTale ot Two, and it's repeated thousands of times across the land every day.

Tommie, you gottem' by the Tale,

Joat


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## Edge & Engine (Feb 18, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Tommie,
> 
> Well, you had 'em in a tizzy last evening. Dolmar's are so good and Stihl's so expensive. Now, look to Cincinnati, find P&G and wander into their marketing department. it's called BRANDING. No, it's not what you do to your cattle. It's not what you do to your girlfriend. (Tommie, don't ever try to brand the inflatable Miss Demi)
> 
> ...



Wait a minute...you're lumping Dolmar with Poulan?


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## Marco (Feb 18, 2009)

Poulan used to make good saws, the 335 was a superior machine to the 290/029. It's marketing that sells the 290, weee pecker people see an ad with a hardcore logger type. The one I've seen is the guy in the Ben Davis shirt with a tin of chew on a island in Alaska. He's bragging on his 066. 
Mr. TicTac heads to his Stihl dealer to buy an image, til he finds out it's to heavey and costs $1200. On the way to the door he spots the 290, like seeing women on the lake.....looks good from far but far from good. So he brings this rattletrap home and now he's a big tuff logger.... Stihl sold.


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## PES+ (Feb 18, 2009)

Marco said:


> Poulan used to make good saws, the 335 was a superior machine to the 290/029. It's marketing that sells the 290, weee pecker people see an ad with a hardcore logger type. The one I've seen is the guy in the Ben Davis shirt with a tin of chew on a island in Alaska. He's bragging on his 066.
> Mr. TicTac heads to his Stihl dealer to buy an image, til he finds out it's to heavey and costs $1200. On the way to the door he spots the 290, like seeing women on the lake.....looks good from far but far from good. So he brings this rattletrap home and now he's a big tuff logger.... Stihl sold.



But but........the 270 and 280 look fast even standing stihl......

race saws man


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## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

joatmon said:


> He leaves it sitting in the driveway for several hours after finished cutting so his neighbors will see that "he's a Stihl man".
> 
> Joat



Well, Joat you're right about one thing....Buying a name brand based on popularity-market leading sales and believing you'll really impress the neighbors, is why Stihl sells more saws.

The thinking man makes purchases based on a different criteria.

Microsoft Windows is the market leader and most popular, widely used OS in the world.....Does that make it the best?....Not hardly!!....Honestly it's a terrible OS but the masses don't know any better and buy what's popular, believing _it must be best._ 

I'm not a low baller who only buys cheap....As a matter fact, I only buy Mac/Apple computers, PMP players (iPod/iPhone) because I feel they are a superior brand with superior OS & hardware......Yes, they cost more than PCs with Microsoft/Windows OS but I want what I believe is the best, not what the masses believe is best.....so price isn't everything!

This is the same reason I buy Dolmar.....I like them best.....They just happen to be less expensive than the market leader and I sure won't be complaining about that. 

Apple is well recognized (although a niche) and can get away with higher prices, based on recognition. Dolmar is not well recognized and I don't believe could get away with it.....Solo is a perfect example of why I believe Tommy's idea for Dolmar will not work at this time. Lower prices than the market leader and better performance will with time get them the recognition they need but will take time. IMO, they need to focus all their attention on straightening out their dealer/distributor network and the rest will fall into place......JMHO


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## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

Marco said:


> Poulan used to make good saws, the 335 was a superior machine to the 290/029. It's marketing that sells the 290, weee pecker people see an ad with a hardcore logger type. The one I've seen is the guy in the Ben Davis shirt with a tin of chew on a island in Alaska. He's bragging on his 066.
> Mr. TicTac heads to his Stihl dealer to buy an image, til he finds out it's to heavey and costs $1200. On the way to the door he spots the 290, like seeing women on the lake.....looks good from far but far from good. So he brings this rattletrap home and now he's a big tuff logger.... Stihl sold.



Rep, for Marco!....LOL.....


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## PES+ (Feb 18, 2009)

*Ummmm*



Fastcast said:


> Well, Joat you're right about one thing....Buying a name brand based on popularity-market leading sales and believing you'll really impress the neighbors, is why Stihl sells more saws.
> 
> The thinking man makes purchases based on a different criteria.
> 
> ...



No dice with me.......I still have a Quadra here in a box somewhere......


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## SawTroll (Feb 18, 2009)

windthrown said:


> joatman, you are just adding to the 290 and Stihl:
> 
> Conspiracy!
> 
> ...



I believe you "improved" that text some - there are phrases there that I never would use.........opcorn:opcorn:


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## volks-man (Feb 18, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Tommie,
> 
> Well, you had 'em in a tizzy last evening. Dolmar's are so good and Stihl's so expensive. Now, look to Cincinnati, find P&G and wander into their marketing department. it's called BRANDING. No, it's not what you do to your cattle. It's not what you do to your girlfriend. (Tommie, don't ever try to brand the inflatable Miss Demi)
> 
> ...




would you mind elaborating on this particular portion of your tale?


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## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

PES+ said:


> No dice with me.......I still have a Quadra here in a box somewhere......



Alot has changed since the dinosaur days of the Quadra. 

The Stock Market and analysts have surely noticed Apple's steady rise to the top. Where have ya been, living in the past obviously.


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## volks-man (Feb 18, 2009)

Marco said:


> Poulan used to make good saws, the 335 was a superior machine to the 290/029. It's marketing that sells the 290, weee pecker people see an ad with a hardcore logger type. The one I've seen is the guy in the Ben Davis shirt with a tin of chew on a island in Alaska. He's bragging on his 066.
> Mr. TicTac heads to his Stihl dealer to buy an image, til he finds out it's to heavey and costs $1200. On the way to the door he spots the 290, like seeing women on the lake.....looks good from far but far from good. So he brings this rattletrap home and now he's a big tuff logger.... Stihl sold.



marco,
i think you are on to something here.

my BIL still has that stihl ms390 i tried to swindle away from him. he went to the stihl dealer to buy 'the best'. the chuckle head came home with stihl's biggest(?) homeowner saw. he couldn't afford anything bigger, but he still got him a stihl.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Tommie,
> 
> Well, you had 'em in a tizzy last evening. Dolmar's are so good and Stihl's so expensive. Now, look to Cincinnati, find P&G and wander into their marketing department. it's called BRANDING. No, it's not what you do to your cattle. It's not what you do to your girlfriend. (Tommie, don't ever try to brand the inflatable Miss Demi)
> 
> ...



Good one, you know me well. I was having abit of fun I must admit. To play in the big league you got to have a whole ball team. You won't see top performing players playing for less, only more. Dolmar has the performers but they are playing for less, a complete oppisite of how things are supposed to be. Why they choose to do that is baffling to me. If I was head of Dolmar my performers would fetch top dollar like everyone elses. Those that love the performance would pay for it. Those that claim they love the performance but aren't willing to pay for it can mosey on. Yes I'm such a bas-tard,LOL


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## PES+ (Feb 18, 2009)

*You missed the point entirely*



Fastcast said:


> Alot has changed since the dinosaur days of the Quadra.
> 
> The Stock Market and analysts have surely noticed Apple's steady rise to the top. Where have ya been, living in the past obviously.



I bought a Quadra when it first came out and was a user of System 7 for years prior.

Many dealers that were Dolmar last time around felt the same way after the saws were left abandoned when Sachs let it go.

I bought the Quadra because I was doing music at the time and then Apple decided to abandon the platform pretty much as soon as it came out.

Very few wrote applications for the platform because the maker themselves left it orphaned.

And I have news for you......a well crafted Linux system will run rings around your precious OS10.XXXXX


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## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

volks-man said:


> marco,
> i think you are on to something here.
> 
> my BIL still has that stihl ms390 i tried to swindle away from him. he went to the stihl dealer to buy 'the best'. the chuckle head came home with stihl's biggest(?) homeowner saw. he couldn't afford anything bigger, but he still got him a stihl.



Yep, like hormonal little school girls.....I've got a boyfriend, I've got a boyfriend, I've got a boyfriend, I've got a boyfriend, I've got a boyfriend.

Stihlbillies......I've got a Stihl, I've got a Stihl, I've got a Stihl, I've got a Stihl, I've got a Stihl, I've got a Stihl, I've got a Stihl.


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## volks-man (Feb 18, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Good one, you know me well. I was having abit of fun I must admit. To play in the big league you got to have a whole ball team. You won't see top performing players playing for less, only more. Dolmar has the performers but they are playing for less, a complete oppisite of how things are supposed to be. Why they choose to do that is baffling to me. If I was head of Dolmar my performers would fetch top dollar like everyone elses. Those that love the performance would pay for it. Those that claim they love the performance but aren't willing to pay for it can mosey on. Yes I'm such a bas-tard,LOL



if i could buy a car similar to a vette, that outperformed a vette for less money than a vette. i'd buy that car before the vette.

am i alone?
opcorn:


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## volks-man (Feb 18, 2009)

PES+ said:


> I bought a Quadra when it first came out and was a user of System 7 for years prior.
> 
> Many dealers that were Dolmar last time around felt the same way after the saws were left abandoned when Sachs let it go.
> 
> ...



a buddy who owns a parts store runs linux. he tells me that he routinely runs without a reboot for *weeks*. how many windows users can say that.


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## joatmon (Feb 18, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Tommie,
> 
> Well, you had 'em in a tizzy last evening. Dolmar's are so good and Stihl's so expensive. Now, look to Cincinnati, find P&G and wander into their marketing department. it's called BRANDING. No, it's not what you do to your cattle. It's not what you do to your girlfriend. (Tommie, don't ever try to brand the inflatable Miss Demi)
> 
> ...





volks-man said:


> would you mind elaborating on this particular portion of your tale?



VM,

Glad to elaborate. If you buy a brand, and you get the brand you seek, you're happy. If you buy on price, and find your price no longer appears to be "good", you're not happy or not as happy.

You see, it's what's important to you. If price is at the top of the "needs" when purchasing a chainsaw, victory is yours, while your price is good.

Let's say you go to BestBuy to buy a TV. What do they say to get you to commit? Yep, we have a "price match guarantee". In other words, you're protected from losing the price battle. Now, go to Tommie's Tabernacle of Tempting TVs where only high end gear is presented for your selection. Tommie's not going to lay a "price match guarantee" line on you during the close. Nope, he's going to emphasize the brand name, its reputation and quality.

Thanks for asking,

Joat


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## volks-man (Feb 18, 2009)

joatmon said:


> VM,
> 
> Glad to elaborate. If you buy a brand, and you get the brand you seek, you're happy. If you buy on price, and find your price no longer appears to be "good", you're not happy or not as happy.
> 
> ...



thank you joat.
i had completely missed your point before.
i agree completely. 
though sometimes we are not dealing in absolutes. not everyone is 'mr. pricepoint', nor are they all 'stihlbilly wannabe lumberjacks' just looking to buy a name. 
look at my sig line. when i can get a good deal i move up the saw 'food chain'. there are people who recognise quality and reputation and that are mindful of price.


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## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

PES+ said:


> And I have news for you......a well crafted Linux system will run rings around your precious OS10.XXXXX



Mac OSX has a Unix core and Linux is essentially an off shoot of Unix.

A Mac guru can do amazing things with a Mac, just like a Linux guy can. The difference is in the polished Mac GUI that allows beginners to use and enjoy them also.....A genius idea that Linux has apparently not bothered with.


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## SawTroll (Feb 18, 2009)

rahtreelimbs said:


> All this gack back and forth about which saw is faster is amusing. I used to get caught up in all this but came to the realization that it is all moot. The difference is so small that it doesn't at all matter. If your happy with the saw and have a dealer like Thall's what is not to like???





THALL10326 said:


> Rich there's a huge mis-conception in the saw world concerning speed. There are those where a second is life and death, the small crowd, then there are the millions on top of millions who could care less. I myself have never gone to the woods to race someone, I've always gone to the woods to saw wood. I'm 100% positive I'm in the majority,




:agree2:

:agree2:

I don't really care either, as long as it is a quality saw, and nice to handle and run.....

Most of the time spent making firewood is spent doing other things than sawing anyway, when you start with standing trees in the woods.


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## Woodie (Feb 18, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Now, go to Tommie's Tabernacle of Tempting TVs where only high end gear is presented for your selection.



Hah...more like Tommy's 'Snakepit of Sorry Saws.'






.


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## joatmon (Feb 18, 2009)

Marco said:


> Poulan used to make good saws, the 335 was a superior machine to the 290/029. It's marketing that sells the 290, weee pecker people see an ad with a hardcore logger type. The one I've seen is the guy in the Ben Davis shirt with a tin of chew on a island in Alaska. He's bragging on his 066.
> Mr. TicTac heads to his Stihl dealer to buy an image, til he finds out it's to heavey and costs $1200. On the way to the door he spots the 290, like seeing women on the lake.....looks good from far but far from good. So he brings this rattletrap home and now he's a big tuff logger.... Stihl sold.



Marco,

It must be an ...... uh ..... interesting life if you have stats on saw buyer's johnson sizes by brand. I'm sure that information is useful to you.

Joat


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## volks-man (Feb 18, 2009)

Marco said:


> Poulan used to make good saws, the 335 was a superior machine to the 290/029. It's marketing that sells the 290, weee pecker people see an ad with a hardcore logger type. The one I've seen is the guy in the Ben Davis shirt with a tin of chew on a island in Alaska. He's bragging on his 066.
> Mr. TicTac heads to his Stihl dealer to buy an image, til he finds out it's to heavey and costs $1200. On the way to the door he spots the 290, like seeing women on the lake.....looks good from far but far from good. So he brings this rattletrap home and now he's a big tuff logger.... Stihl sold.






joatmon said:


> Marco,
> 
> It must be an ...... uh ..... interesting life if you have stats on saw buyer's johnson sizes by brand. I'm sure that information is useful to you.
> 
> Joat



funny joat.

what is your serious rebuttle to marco's post? 
he does have a valid point, no?


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## SawTroll (Feb 18, 2009)

windthrown said:


> *Black* is the best color for labs. opcorn:
> 
> Orange is the best color for saws. opcorn:




:agree2:


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## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

volks-man said:


> a buddy who owns a parts store runs linux. he tells me that he routinely runs without a reboot for *weeks*. how many windows users can say that.



Not many!....lol....My OSX Macs not only go weeks but months without a reboot and that's with 8-12 programs launched and active, including graphic, memory intensive apps I use for work......OSX's stability is well documented, along with Linux....Windows, well, umm, that's another story. lol

Uh, oh.....forgot to add though, Windows is the market leader so that must make it best!


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## Marco (Feb 18, 2009)

yup, the closer to the living room the 290's storage spot is the smaller the Johnson. I know of one guy kept his 290 on a shelf behind the couch, poor fella.


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## joatmon (Feb 18, 2009)

Marco said:


> Poulan used to make good saws, the 335 was a superior machine to the 290/029. It's marketing that sells the 290, weee pecker people see an ad with a hardcore logger type. The one I've seen is the guy in the Ben Davis shirt with a tin of chew on a island in Alaska. He's bragging on his 066.
> Mr. TicTac heads to his Stihl dealer to buy an image, til he finds out it's to heavey and costs $1200. On the way to the door he spots the 290, like seeing women on the lake.....looks good from far but far from good. So he brings this rattletrap home and now he's a big tuff logger.... Stihl sold.





joatmon said:


> Marco,
> 
> It must be an ...... uh ..... interesting life if you have stats on saw buyer's johnson sizes by brand. I'm sure that information is useful to you.
> 
> Joat






volks-man said:


> funny joat.
> 
> what is your serious rebuttle to marco's post?
> he does have a valid point, no?



VM and Marco,

I'll gladly render a serious comment on Marco's post. Now, first, when Marco swerves into "wee wee land", it's hard, no pun intended, to take it serious. 

Marco, I think, as I've stated in an earlier post, that Stihl is about branding. They are the P&G of the *** world. But, notice that Husky is following their lead.

Now, branding usually strives to establish the following characteristics, and I must point out this list is in no way exhaustive.

- positive image,
- easy recognition,
- product consistency,
- wholesomeness,
- dependability,
- completeness.

Now, as a consumer, not as a pro, you get a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling after buying into the brand. It's a "safe" purchases. In my business, there was once a saying, "No one ever got fired for buying IBM". Was IBM the best? In many cases no. Was it good? Yes, in most cases. Did IBM sell a product? Kind of. They actually sold a brand, their support and service as an unseparable part from their product.

Now, this has nothing to do with the size of aforementioned member. It has a lot to do if you're a seasoned pro with preferences, or a homeowner looking for the whole package. A safe buy.

Thanks for your interest and attention,

Joat


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## joatmon (Feb 18, 2009)

Marco said:


> yup, the closer to the living room the 290's storage spot is the smaller the Johnson. I know of one guy kept his 290 on a shelf behind the couch, poor fella.



Marco,

Well, you've caused me to reconsider carrying my 029 with me everywhere I go.

Peace, 

Joat


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## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Marco,
> 
> Well, you've caused me to reconsider carrying my 029 with me everywhere I go.
> 
> ...



If you're going to conceal carry (CCW) that 290 Joat, you'll need one heavy duty IWB/OWB leather holster for that piggy!


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 18, 2009)

volks-man said:


> a buddy who owns a parts store runs linux. he tells me that he routinely runs without a reboot for *weeks*. how many windows users can say that.



I run Linux. But I have Windows XP on the work computers (for compatibility). XP over the months gets slower and slower and slower...but my Linux box's speed hasn't changed since the day I installed it.



Fastcast said:


> Mac OSX has a Unix core and Linux is essentially an off shoot of Unix.
> 
> A Mac guru can do amazing things with a Mac, just like a Linux guy can. The difference is in the polished Mac GUI that allows beginners to use and enjoy them also.....A genius idea that Linux has apparently not bothered with.



Nah, Linux has plenty of eye candy too...you just have to get the right "distro" if you want to easily enable it.


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> I run Linux. But I have Windows XP on the work computers (for compatibility). XP over the months gets slower and slower and slower...but my Linux box's speed hasn't changed since the day I installed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, Linux has plenty of eye candy too...you just have to get the right "distro" if you want to easily enable it.



I know it has eye candy too but needs configured and not as user friendly to the amateur users, is all I was saying. It's a good OS for veterans, where as Mac OSX is a great OS for veterans or amateurs!


----------



## volks-man (Feb 18, 2009)

*may i pry?*



joatmon said:


> VM and Marco,
> 
> Now, as a consumer, not as a pro, you get a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling after buying into the brand. It's a "safe" purchases. In my business, there was once a saying, "No one ever got fired for buying IBM".
> 
> ...



on occasion your posts indicate the presence of an intellect and persona that is... well, rather unexpected on a chain saw forum.

might i ask, what do you do for a living joat?

(other Than psychiatry and ministry)


----------



## joatmon (Feb 18, 2009)

volks-man said:


> on occasion your posts indicate the presence of an intellect and persona that is... well, rather unexpected on a chain saw forum.
> 
> might i ask, what do you do for a living joat?
> 
> (other Than psychiatry and ministry)



VM,

I've been in the information systems (computer software) business since 1968. I'm currently a self-employed consultant.

Joat


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## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

volks-man said:


> on occasion your posts indicate the presence of an intellect and persona that is... well, rather unexpected on a chain saw forum.
> 
> might i ask, what do you do for a living joat?
> 
> (other Than psychiatry and ministry)




I can see his head swelling as I type! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## volks-man (Feb 18, 2009)

joatmon said:


> VM,
> 
> I've been in the information systems (computer software) business since 1968. I'm currently a self-employed consultant.
> 
> Joat


interesting. you remind me of a man named Miles A. he is an interesting cat too.

so i guess you have used those old disks from way back...
my mom told me about these monster discs that were the size of a pizza box!!! i wonder what their capacity was?


----------



## joatmon (Feb 18, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> I can see his head swelling as I type! :hmm3grin2orange:



FC,

Don't worry. I won't analyze you, condemn you to h&ll, or reveal any information about you.

I remain,

Joat


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

joatmon said:


> FC,
> 
> Don't worry. I won't analyze you, condemn you to h&ll, or reveal any information about you.
> 
> ...



That's why I love you Stihl maaaaaaaaaan!


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

volks-man said:


> if i could buy a car similar to a vette, that outperformed a vette for less money than a vette. i'd buy that car before the vette.
> 
> am i alone?
> opcorn:



Awww but if you really wanted the Vette and bought something else because it was cheaper you just bought something you didn't really want in the first place. Now why are you buying things you don't want? If I wanted a Vette I would buy a Vette. Thank goodness I don't want a Vette,LOLOL

No your not alone in your way of thinking, many buy what they don't really want due to price and what they can and can't afford. I don't think that applies to chainsaws that are within a 100 bucks of each other though. In saw terms the majority buy what they want, its the manufacture's job to make them want theirs. Thats what marketing is all about and it costs alot of money. Where does this marketing money come from, from the sale your product. Sell too cheap and you got no marketing money. I firmly believe Dolmar is doing just that and their marketing campaign compared to Stihl and Husky show it clearly. Husky has wised up in a hurry, Dolmar will sooner or later...


----------



## sachsmo (Feb 18, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> 339.00, outragously too cheap............................




In this "economy" nothing is TOO cheap. My 5100 has over 2 years in service and IS the reason when I pick up an 80cc saw it WILL be the 7900.


When I came here 2.5 years ago the little 5100 was just starting to have a following. I can see now that they are worrying some in the buisness. 550,000 units aint chump change, still Stihl is # 1. But you all can remember when GM was THE largest corporation in the world.

When those upstart little Toyotas and Hondas first hit the shore do you really think GM even gave them a second look? We all looked over our 5 foot long hoods and snickered at the little cheap cracker boxes. 

When you're # 1 the only possible move is..................................


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

mobetter said:


> In this "economy" nothing is TOO cheap. My 5100 has over 2 years in service and IS the reason when I pick up an 80cc saw it WILL be the 7900.
> 
> 
> When I came here 2.5 years ago the little 5100 was just starting to have a following. I can see now that they are worrying some in the buisness. 550,000 units aint chump change, still Stihl is # 1. But you all can remember when GM was THE largest corporation in the world.
> ...




Awww good. Let me ask you then. You got a 5100, you've run it, you apparently like it. Should it wear out and you go to get another one will you be willing to pay 500.00 for it, simple yes or no. Secondly if that new 7900 cost 899.00 would you still buy it, I'm thinking you would, whatcha say??

Dolmar isn't worrieing Stihl and Husky at all. In the last 5 years Stihl invested 210 million dollars in building, machinery and R&D. They spend half of what the enitre Dolmar company is worth in advertising last year, 50 million. Dolmar is a 100 million dollar company overall. There certainly is nothing there for Stihl to worry about or Husky either. If anyone is worrieing it would have to be Dolmar in this economy. Stihl and Husky can afford to lose alot more market share than Dolmar. Stihl and Husky together have about 75-80%of the USA market. That leaves 20-25% for all the others. If sales slide overall 20% across the board for everyone in these hard times who is going to be hurting, not the big boys. 

550,000 units is very good for a company thier size, no question about it. I just think they could do even better if they sold their products on par with the other big two and start putting some bucks in the bank and use it to grow with..


----------



## sachsmo (Feb 18, 2009)

You got me there,


No way would I pay $899 for the 7900. Or for the 460 for that matter. The thing that makes the Dolmars so sexy is their performance, and they're "cheap". You know what the old song says; "I like my girls a little on the trashy side". Anyone can follow the heard, I prefer to go against the grain, Always........................................................Mo out!


----------



## Edge & Engine (Feb 18, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Awww good. Let me ask you then. You got a 5100, you've run it, you apparently like it. Should it wear out and you go to get another one will you be willing to pay 500.00 for it, simple yes or no. Secondly if that new 7900 cost 899.00 would you still buy it, I'm thinking you would, whatcha say??
> 
> Dolmar isn't worrieing Stihl and Husky at all. In the last 5 years Stihl invested 210 million dollars in building, machinery and R&D. They spend half of what the enitre Dolmar company is worth in advertising last year, 50 million. Dolmar is a 100 million dollar company overall. There certainly is nothing there for Stihl to worry about or Husky either. If anyone is worrieing it would have to be Dolmar in this economy. Stihl and Husky can afford to lose alot more market share than Dolmar. Stihl and Husky together have about 75-80%of the USA market. That leaves 20-25% for all the others. If sales slide overall 20% across the board for everyone in these hard times who is going to be hurting, not the big boys.
> 
> 550,000 units is very good for a company thier size, no question about it. I just think they could do even better if they sold their products on par with the other big two and start putting some bucks in the bank and use it to grow with..



When the Dolmar is 899... it will still be a smokin' deal because the competition will be at 999


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

mobetter said:


> You got me there,
> 
> 
> No way would I pay $899 for the 7900. Or for the 460 for that matter. The thing that makes the Dolmars so sexy is their performance, and they're "cheap". You know what the old song says; "I like my girls a little on the trashy side". Anyone can follow the heard, I prefer to go against the grain, Always........................................................Mo out!



LOL, I wasn't trying to getcha. Joat already knows what I'm getting at and since he writes so much better than me I'll let him do it. He knows exactly what I'm pointing out. I'll let yaw throw stones at him while I'll hide in the house,LOLOLOLOL


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

Edge & Engine said:


> When the Dolmar is 899... it will still be a smokin' deal because the competition will be at 999



When hell, thats where it should be now and have been all along and yes I agree its still a smokin deal.


----------



## sachsmo (Feb 18, 2009)

Dude,



I aint chuckin' stones at ya, I think you are the best read on this sometimes forsaken site. Gotta admit I always enjoy your commentary, you da champ in my book. I'm just a real cheap @$$, and do all mechanical repairs myself. I have never paid a mechanic to maintain my vehicles, or my saws, mowers,etc, etc. Perhaps thats why my saw is still runnin' strong (no offence to all you good wrenches out there)


----------



## Kemper (Feb 18, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Awww good. Let me ask you then. You got a 5100, you've run it, you apparently like it. Should it wear out and you go to get another one will you be willing to pay 500.00 for it, simple yes or no. Secondly if that new 7900 cost 899.00 would you still buy it, I'm thinking you would, whatcha say??
> 
> Dolmar isn't worrieing Stihl and Husky at all. In the last 5 years Stihl invested 210 million dollars in building, machinery and R&D. They spend half of what the enitre Dolmar company is worth in advertising last year, 50 million. Dolmar is a 100 million dollar company overall. There certainly is nothing there for Stihl to worry about or Husky either. If anyone is worrieing it would have to be Dolmar in this economy. Stihl and Husky can afford to lose alot more market share than Dolmar. Stihl and Husky together have about 75-80%of the USA market. That leaves 20-25% for all the others. If sales slide overall 20% across the board for everyone in these hard times who is going to be hurting, not the big boys.
> 
> 550,000 units is very good for a company thier size, no question about it. I just think they could do even better if they sold their products on par with the other big two and start putting some bucks in the bank and use it to grow with..




Just curious, where did you get your figures?

I think your wrong if you think this economy isn't going to hurt "the big boys"
they are the ones that are stretched pretty tight in a tough economy, the little guy may just weather the storm better.

I don't think stihl is worried about Dolmar either but they better watch out because there about to get bitten right on the ass by a mean ole Husky...


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Dolmar isn't worrieing Stihl and Husky at all. In the last 5 years Stihl invested 210 million dollars in building, machinery and R&D. They spend half of what the enitre Dolmar company is worth in advertising last year, 50 million. Dolmar is a 100 million dollar company overall. There certainly is nothing there for Stihl to worry about or Husky either.



Stihl or Husky may not be worried but you and a few other of these dealer gentleman on AS sure seem to have a bit of anxiety over Dolmar. You're always involved in these Dolmar threads.....Sure you always praise their performance. (who could deny that?) but there's always that little resentful pick, pick, pick.....snicker, snicker, snicker going on.  

It sure seems Dolmar is starting to get under your craw! Yep, 1/2 million plus 5100s sold last year....Could have been a piece of Stihler dealer (MS260) pie but I guess a few Dolmar sales doesn't bother you big shots, now does it? opcorn:


----------



## weimedog (Feb 18, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Dolmar isn't worrieing Stihl and Husky at all. In the last 5 years Stihl invested 210 million dollars in building, machinery and R&D.
> 
> 
> Dolmar is a 100 million dollar company overall. There certainly is nothing there for Stihl to worry about or Husky either. If anyone is worrieing it would have to be Dolmar in this economy. Stihl and Husky can afford to lose alot more market share than Dolmar. Stihl and Husky together have about 75-80%of the USA market. That leaves 20-25% for all the others. If sales slide overall 20% across the board for everyone in these hard times who is going to be hurting, not the big boys.
> ...




BS

It doesn't have as much to do with market share as it has to do with how leveraged they are.

All that money out for R&D and capacity? 200 million? During the last five years? My bet is they are under pressure. Maybe they need to shrink things like marketing...and have these "no cost" advocates online do their marketing leg work... (Just kidding) They need to sell a certain amount of product at a certain margin to get the planned ROI. The fact is, as the market shrinks, the LEAST leveraged company wins. Reguardless of size. All that expansion was based on pre-recession numbers.....I don't know what their ballance sheet looks like. Do you? If its on line, post a link and we can go thru it together and find out how well they can handle a shrinking market. Same with Dolmar.

Housing market....crashed. Lumber...prices are down. This has to put pressure on the loggers out there. Which has to put pressure on those who manufacture and sell the higher end saws. Especially on the big guys if they need Volumn to pay off investments. A sign will be increased hypertension in the marketing retoric...really all "size" does is require a higher volumn of sales to cover the overhead. Size also doesn't always = reserves..look at GM and even Toyota. And as the economy tanks, these type of "homeowner" sales are going to be more and more price dependant....(A good argument for the value of the MS290 AND Dolmar price points) 

If you have a problem with this logic...take a closer look of the events of this last year.


----------



## volks-man (Feb 18, 2009)

keep 'er goin' boys.


when this thread reaches 666 posts the whole interweb is gonna come down!
opcorn:


----------



## indiansprings (Feb 18, 2009)

It will be interesting to see if Mo-Betta's precious 5100 is still sawing like hell almost thirty years from now like my 032 and 028 which has cut countless ricks of wood like mine have. I found it hard back in the late 70's to pay for a Stihl, but had worn two homelites out and was dissatisfied with were the quality was going. I could verily afford it, but it was the best investment I have made in power tools, same with the first string trimmer I bought a FS 80 I think, it's STIHL going strong. I won't be around to read the answer in thirty years as I've got a terminal illness, connective muscle tissue disease, 
I enjoy watching my boys the saws I bought so many years ago. 
Performance on the edge is usually paid for by reduced longevity, increased maintainence and operational cost. I'll just keep my old orange and white saws which I can find almost anywhere and not at a kings ransom like parts for the 143 project I have. Tommy and Joat are 110% correct in their analysis as a retired buyer and former upper mngt associate for the largest retailer in the world I have seen companies that had great product disappear because they didn't invest in marketing and the future. Wish folks with the Dolmars nothing but good luck they are good equipment, the corporate people just have their head in the wrong place.


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## Javelin (Feb 18, 2009)

actually there are lots of 30+ yr old Sachs Dolmars running around here!


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## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

Kemper said:


> Just curious, where did you get your figures?
> 
> I think your wrong if you think this economy isn't going to hurt "the big boys"
> they are the ones that are stretched pretty tight in a tough economy, the little guy may just weather the storm better.
> ...



I got the 550,000 unit figure from Dolmar. The market share figures have been well known for years. Stihl and Husky have had the US market locked tight for ages now. 

Husky biting Stihl, possible. Raising the prices, market like crazy. Hell they're even involved in Nascar now. Was seeing alot of Husky ads on tv last year during the spring and fall seasons. Seen alot of their mower ads too. Will be plenty more soon as spring hits this year too. Husky is on the move no doult.


----------



## Kemper (Feb 18, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> Stihl or Husky may not be worried but you and a few other of these dealer gentleman on AS sure seem to have a bit of anxiety over Dolmar. You're always involved in these Dolmar threads.....Sure you always praise their performance. (who could deny that?) but there's always that little resentful pick, pick, pick.....snicker, snicker, snicker going on.
> 
> It sure seems Dolmar is starting to get under your craw! Yep, 1/2 million plus 5100s sold last year....Could have been a piece of Stihler dealer (MS260) pie but I guess a few Dolmar sales doesn't bother you big shots, now does it? opcorn:





TKO! I think the "Champ" is down for the count..


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## indiansprings (Feb 18, 2009)

There may be some, but I wonder if they have ever had a wrench on them.
My Stihl's have just required the normal spark plug change every once in a while, air filter blown out , good clean fuel and nothing more, no visits to the dealers for anything else, but I treat my saws as an investment, not abusing them just for the sake of giving them hell, no broken or cracked plastic either.

Not knowing much about the older Dolmars were they tweaked out for the highest performance like the 5100 or is a emmissions thing why they have them wound out and leaned out from the dealer. 

I have noticed my new John Deere CS 56 is running on the lean side, I've got to richen in up this weekend.


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## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> Stihl or Husky may not be worried but you and a few other of these dealer gentleman on AS sure seem to have a bit of anxiety over Dolmar. You're always involved in these Dolmar threads.....Sure you always praise their performance. (who could deny that?) but there's always that little resentful pick, pick, pick.....snicker, snicker, snicker going on.
> 
> It sure seems Dolmar is starting to get under your craw! Yep, 1/2 million plus 5100s sold last year....Could have been a piece of Stihler dealer (MS260) pie but I guess a few Dolmar sales doesn't bother you big shots, now does it? opcorn:



Dolmar getting under my crawl, huh, I own two Dolmars, like em, tried to get Dolmar on the shelf to sell myself so no way are they getting under my crawl. 

Maybe the real crawl issue is someone, lil ole me, pointing out a few things no one wanted to admit. Seems Dolmar is basicly trying to buy into the US market aren't they. When they stop that and start charging what they're products are really worth will they're customers continue to support them. I'm getting a mix in this thread of maybe they will and maybe they won't. However I'm going by the very few on AS. I'd like to know in the big pitcure of things whether their customers would support them or not. I personally think they would....


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## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

Kemper said:


> TKO! I think the "Champ" is down for the count..



Fraid not, look up, Fast just got knocked out the ring and is heading to the hospital,LOLOL


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## 04ultra (Feb 18, 2009)

Javelin said:


> actually there are lots of 30+ yr old Sachs Dolmars running around here!



There are lots of 120supers , 120si , 116si and lots of others running around here ...




.


----------



## Javelin (Feb 18, 2009)

Some have been worked on just like the old stihl husky jonsered etc. And some have not! Anyhow the same thing could be said about just about any of todays saws! Non of the saws today will IMO last like the old vintage saws would! I mainly think because of the emmissions that are being put on all of them they just are not going to live like the old stuff will! However they will produce more wood!


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## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Dolmar getting under my crawl, huh, I own two Dolmars, like em, tried to get Dolmar on the shelf to sell myself so no way are they getting under my crawl.
> 
> Maybe the real crawl issue is someone, lil ole me, pointing out a few things no one wanted to admit. Seems Dolmar is basicly trying to buy into the US market aren't they. When they stop that and start charging what they're products are really worth will they're customers continue to support them. I'm getting a mix in this thread of maybe they will and maybe they won't. However I'm going by the very few on AS. I'd like to know in the big pitcure of things whether their customers would support them or not. I personally think they would....



What do we want to admit Tommy, that we would like to see their prices go up?


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

weimedog said:


> BS
> 
> It doesn't have as much to do with market share as it has to do with how leveraged they are.
> 
> ...



I got no problem with that logic at all. The market is shrinking, no question on that. The big qustion is who is it shrinking on and who is taking it. Stihl doesn't post numbers, they have no stockholders to answer to. Husky posts their numbers on their website. As a matter of fact go look on 2/20/09 at their website and you will see their complete results for all of 2008. Dolmar I guess would be tied in with Makita. Makita's numbers I wouldn't think would bear out Dolmars numbers. I don't know how to get Dolmar's numbers.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> What do we want to admit Tommy, that we would like to see their prices go up?



Of course, show your loyalty with ya wallet, not ya yapper,LOLOL

(messing with ya)


----------



## Woodie (Feb 18, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> Yep, 1/2 million plus 5100s sold last year.




For the record, Dolmar did not sell a 1/2 million 5100s last year.







.


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

indiansprings said:


> It will be interesting to see if Mo-Betta's precious 5100 is still sawing like hell almost thirty years from now like my 032 and 028 which has cut countless ricks of wood like mine have. I found it hard back in the late 70's to pay for a Stihl, but had worn two homelites out and was dissatisfied with were the quality was going. I could verily afford it, but it was the best investment I have made in power tools, same with the first string trimmer I bought a FS 80 I think, it's STIHL going strong. I won't be around to read the answer in thirty years as I've got a terminal illness, connective muscle tissue disease,
> I enjoy watching my boys the saws I bought so many years ago.
> Performance on the edge is usually paid for by reduced longevity, increased maintainence and operational cost. I'll just keep my old orange and white saws which I can find almost anywhere and not at a kings ransom like parts for the 143 project I have. Tommy and Joat are 110% correct in their analysis as a retired buyer and former upper mngt associate for the largest retailer in the world *I have seen companies that had great product disappear because they didn't invest in marketing and the future. *Wish folks with the Dolmars nothing but good luck they are good equipment, the corporate people just have their head in the wrong place.



Thankya, your highlighted red hit it right on the head. Joat will be in later to reinforce that as well,


----------



## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

Woodie said:


> For the record, Dolmar did not sell a 1/2 million 5100s last year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That be true but gotta givem credit where credit is due, to be no bigger than they are they pumped out alot of units. 

Hey Woodie I showed 2000SS what you said about his MS460, he said your dead meat when he gets back home,LOLOLOL


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## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

Kemper said:


> TKO! I think the "Champ" is down for the count..



Naaaaah, probably not.....He's the champ.....He never seams to be out!
At least not out of wind.....lol



Javelin said:


> actually there are lots of 30+ yr old Sachs Dolmars running around here!





04ultra said:


> There are lots of 120supers , 120si , 116si and lots of others running around here ....



You mean you missed the memo?......Stihl is the only saw in the 30 year club.  




Woodie said:


> For the record, Dolmar did not sell a 1/2 million 5100s last year.



Ok, all units than.....I just went with Toms figures but ya know he gets long winded so I breeze over some of his rhetoric!


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## THALL10326 (Feb 18, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> Naaaaah, probably not.....He's the champ.....He never seams to be out!
> At least not out of wind.....lol
> 
> 
> ...



Hahaha, you know what they say, its all good. Tell ya what though and in all honesty. Don't think for a second I got anything against Dolmar, I don't. I like both of the ones I got and I tried my dayummest to getem on the shelf.

The last thing we need is a two saw market. Dolmar needs to stay in the pitcure and grow, why,competition gives guys like you me good products, thats why. More competition means better products from all makers. 

Now that wasn't too winded was it,LOLOL


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 18, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Hahaha, you know what they say, its all good. Tell ya what though and in all honesty. Don't think for a second I got anything against Dolmar, I don't. I like both of the ones I got and I tried my dayummest to getem on the shelf.
> 
> The last thing we need is a two saw market. Dolmar needs to stay in the pitcure and grow, why,competition gives guys like you me good products, thats why. More competition means better products from all makers.
> 
> Now that wasn't too winded was it,LOLOL



I remember you trying to get 'em on your shelfs....Damn shame it didn't work out!....I'm sure ya would of also been a hell of an advocate for the other German saw! :chatter: lol


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## bookerdog (Feb 19, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Hey Woodie I showed 2000SS what you said about his MS460, he said your dead meat when he gets back home,LOLOLOL



Now doesn't that scare you woodie. LOLLOLLOLLOL


----------



## MCW (Feb 19, 2009)

Kemper said:


> Just curious, where did you get your figures?
> I think your wrong if you think this economy isn't going to hurt "the big boys"
> they are the ones that are stretched pretty tight in a tough economy, the little guy may just weather the storm better.
> I don't think stihl is worried about Dolmar either but they better watch out because there about to get bitten right on the ass by a mean ole Husky...



I agree...
I don't know the business affairs or bank balances of any of the previously mentioned companies BUT...
Investing millions, billions etc in new products and selling 50 trillion etc units a year doesn't mean a company is profitable OR sustainable. There are probably better odds in the current climate that Dolmar has an increased chance of surviving than the other larger saw companies. Old Fred in his back shed that makes 100 saws a year with little outlay has just as much of a chance of succeeding as Bill down the road who invests in a large new factory, millions of dollars of manufacturing machinery, has 4 out of every 100 employees suing them for workplace injuries, massive insurances, has top level engineers on over $100k each per year etc etc.
BIG is not always best. 
If Stihl has spent SOOO much money on developing new saws, then that'd mean that they now have 320 models to choose from (only kidding but you get what I mean) whereas Dolmar will stick to their relatively tried and trued 15 models (or whatever they have).
I know you can't compare the car industry with chainsaws but from a business perspective Holden (GM) in Australia spent over a billion dollars developing the last VE Commodore - they are now in deep doo doo even though they developed an excellent, world class car.
I'm not having a shot at Stihl/Husky/Dolmar or any other saw makers and despite lacking a Stihl I very nearly bought a 460 over the 7900. Price was the main deciding factor but in the end I liked the Dolmar and have no regrets. All the local Stihl dealers are morons too so the lack of Dolmar service in the area isn't any different to the lack of Stihl service I would have got - hence the 3120 over the 880  The Husky guy is great...
It is a worry however that Dolmar service seems to be bad in some (many) areas in the US but same goes for Stihl in my area - most people still own Stihls though but continue to complain about the service and prices of parts!


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 19, 2009)

MCW, you've brought up some good points.....With this debate, that has turned to, Dolmar needs to charge more for their saws and get inline with Stihl. It seems we've forgot to mention, until you did, the price of Stihl parts.  What a freakin joke that is.....I suppose Dolmar should do that too....Parts/price comparisons is just another reason to buy Dolmar.

.....and yes the Stihl dealers in my area are also a bunch of arrogant :censored:. To be fair, there is one decent Husky dealer but the best service dealer in this area, happens to be a Dolmar dealer....IMO


----------



## MCW (Feb 19, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> MCW, you've brought up some good points.....With this debate, that has turned to, Dolmar needs to charge more for their saws and get inline with Stihl. It seems we've forgot to mention, until you did, the price of Stihl parts.  What a freakin joke that is.....I suppose Dolmar should do that too....Parts/price comparisons is just another reason to buy Dolmar.
> 
> .....and yes the Stihl dealers in my area are also a bunch of arrogant :censored:. To be fair, there is one decent Husky dealer but the best service dealer in this area, happens to be a Dolmar dealer....IMO



I was recently involved in drought counselling in Australia for drought affected fruit growers. The fact was that many of the larger growers with the fancy houses and flash cars were in more trouble than some of the smaller guys with rusty cars and cheap tractors. From the outside though you'd think the larger growers were doing OK. In the current world climate the big guys feel the crunch more than the small guys most of the time. How many large companies have folded lately with absolutely no signs beforehand then BANG, finished?
Lots...


----------



## Javelin (Feb 19, 2009)

Man this thread has a lot of twists to it! It has gone from supposedly dolmar engine trouble to know dolmar in financial trouble! It is turning out to be a conspiracy:monkey: Oh well they must be doing something right for people to bash a product!


----------



## Fastcast (Feb 19, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Tommie,
> 
> I was standing in your corner with the spit bucket, towels and the 'cut man', but we were never close to be needed. I sent the 'cut man' home in the second round.
> 
> ...




Well, Joat you seem to forget about your own panties getting in a wad anytime someone is not so impressed with Stihl performance, prices or quality for that matter. 

We Dolmar fans have recognized and said time and time again Dolmar has marketing/dealer & distributor problems......Not in all locations but in some....We realize this, we have admitted it time and time again but some of you just want to continually rub ours and Dolmars nose in it. :censored: 

Now when you Stihl fan boys have an epiphany and realize Stihl is not perfect either, with their over inflated (pro saw) prices, PITA must drive 15 miles one way to physically walk into some snobby dealer to buy their over priced parts, then the saws that are affordable to the common homeowner/firewood cutter are underperforming, heavier than necessary and of crappy plastic case designs.......When you gentleman start admitting that and quit continually blasting Dolmars shortcomings then we'll have an intelligent agreement/disagreement.


----------



## Brian VT (Feb 19, 2009)

I like cookies.


----------



## bookerdog (Feb 19, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Long live Stihl,
> Long live Husky,
> Long live Dolmar,
> 
> Joat



Hey what about ECHO LOL


----------



## weimedog (Feb 19, 2009)

THALL10326;. they have no stockholders to answer to. QUOTE said:


> And that is HUGE! They can choose to ride out an economic chit storm, paring down where they need to; and choose to be in the saw business or what ever without having to answer to anyone..but them selves. This is how they can both CHOOSE an Identity and stay with one over a long time. Very true. Good stuff.


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## CentaurG2 (Feb 19, 2009)

weimedog said:


> THALL10326;. they have no stockholders to answer to. QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> > And that is HUGE! They can choose to ride out an economic chit storm, paring down where they need to; and choose to be in the saw business or what ever without having to answer to anyone..but them selves. This is how they can both CHOOSE an Identity and stay with one over a long time. Very true. Good stuff.
> ...


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## weimedog (Feb 19, 2009)

Ethically...a lot. Legally...not much. The strong (not nessesarily BIG) dealers will survive based on their customers and marketing skills anyway..and they could sell anything they choose and survive. (Bailey's case and point) The ones too dependant on Stihl having a bail out stratagy, 'Bama style; or are weak in other ways won't make it. Stihl has no obligation to save them. Actually Stihl provides the opportunity to participate in a proven winning solution..if you can't make it work...they really don't want you anyway...its like selling fuel..there is a market. You just have to build the plan to have a peice of it. Stihl enables that entrance into a market; but the dealer has to perform.

Heres the thing..If Stihl sticks to its guns, the CUSTOMER can buy a Stihl power tool in an economic "down time" with the confidence that Stihl will be at the other side of the economic storm. That also means parts will be available during the storm as Stihl will STIHL be in business in some form. Its possible the web plays a larger role for some customers..but support and parts will be there. I doubt Stihl wants to be the "Amway" of power tools, but expect changes as this economic thing progresses.

So I believe You are right..the mechanism of support between Stihl and the customer may change,..it is possible although not a definite thing...the John Deere connection is a clue they have put thought into their channel options. Increased use of the web is just a natural evolution..its going to happen.

My bet is that Stihl's willingness to research the John Deere opportunity had its roots in expansion first. All that infrastructure investment etc., as was mentioned before; was a driver for Stihl. AND then as the economy has decided to find new ways to disappoint, that relationship has turned into a mutual cost savings strategy, JD getting out of paying someone else to build power tools while still having their stores provide those types of products..and Stihl developing a less expensive distribution channel. Remember, those JD stores are fundementally a JD business plan. The investment for the JD dealers to take on Stihl has to be a fraction of the cost to build a JD store/dealership. Stihl gets the benifit of a "store front" without the sales of their product line funding the majority of the costs associated with that presentation....maybe the price points of Stihl's can get into the Dolmar range? All the big show for marketing and dealers has to be paid for by a portion of the Stihl products sales price...cut that cost, prices can go down.

Who wins? The customer.

You Dolmar fans? My local Dolmar dealer is a John Deere power equipment store...so who's the leader here?

You Husqvarna fans? They seem to be ahead in closing in on that 800lb gorrilla of 2010 epa regulations for CHAINSAWS (Not other hand held power tools)...that means they don't have to fund those product designs during a recession! AND they OWN the low cost homeowners saw market. This a a concern to the rest of the saw world..they are proving a low cost low support structure business plan..works.

So you all have something to crow about


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## sachsmo (Feb 19, 2009)

# At the end of the day the only thing that matters is you got the job done.


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## volks-man (Feb 20, 2009)

bump



:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


(for a few days i thought this thread was burned in to my monitor)


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## Fastcast (Feb 20, 2009)

volks-man said:


> bump
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gets tiring arguing with the Stihlbillies, who are just trying to cause trouble. I've got better things to do!


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## THALL10326 (Feb 20, 2009)

Fastcast said:


> Gets tiring arguing with the Stihlbillies, who are just trying to cause trouble. I've got better things to do!



Alot more Stihlbillies than there are Dollybillies,LOLOLOLOL


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## volks-man (Feb 20, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Alot more Stihlbillies than there are Dollybillies,LOLOLOLOL



DOLbabies?


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## ElgBurner (Jul 6, 2012)

*refused warranty for 5100s*

Reviving an old but pertinent thread.

I have a Dolmar 5100s that has a scored piston, much like some folks have experienced. 

However API has denied the warranty due to "insufficient lubrication"

Here are the facts.

I used the saw 4 times in about 7 mo, always using the Jaso rated oil with 89 oct gas 50:1 just like the manual says.

This saw was used to cut approx 1/4 cord of maple-typical homeowner work.

The dealer is passing me on to the distributor, who seems to be ignoring my e-mails and calls.

Likewise I called Dolmar and they passed me back to API.

I bought the saw in 2011, as it turned out I was sold a 2008 saw, which seems to be the problem year.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Any help or insight is appreciated.

ElgBurner


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