# 262XP Day



## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

Or maybe I should have said days? 

10 of them total. 7 on the bench and 3 being assembled......


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## M&Rtree (Apr 6, 2015)

Wow! And they look so clean... Build thread as promised?


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## 295 tramp (Apr 6, 2015)

whats the percentage of gain ported verses stock?


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

M&Rtree said:


> Wow! And they look so clean... Build thread as promised?



Yes sir......I'll be adding to this thread over the next couple of days. 



295 tramp said:


> whats the percentage of gain ported verses stock?



At least 35%.


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## Stihlofadeal64 (Apr 6, 2015)

That's a better gain than my savings account 
Maybe you should go public -- sell some stock and stuff 

Looking forward to the reads!


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## blsnelling (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Or maybe I should have said days?
> 
> 10 of them total. 7 on the bench and 3 being assembled......
> 
> View attachment 417382


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## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

I love 262's..........you suck. Even if they're not your's.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> I love 262's..........you suck. Even if they're not your's.



A few of them are.....


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## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> A few of them are.....


You killed me a little on the inside.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

LOL


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## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> LOL


I'd donate a testicle if'n it'd get me a usable 2sixtyduece.


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## hanniedog (Apr 6, 2015)

It outta be against the law to mod a 262. Something along the lines of messing with perfection.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

hanniedog said:


> It outta be against the law to mod a 262. Something along the lines of messing with perfection.



I see that you've never experienced the pleasure of one of my 262XPs. 

To say they can't be improved on is very inaccurate. I get huge gains from the 262....


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## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

hanniedog said:


> It outta be against the law to mod a 262. Something along the lines of messing with perfection.


I just pooped a little......... 

Banda Camp for the no mods idea!


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## hanniedog (Apr 6, 2015)

So ya gonna mod mine pro bono?


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## Fire8 (Apr 6, 2015)

That's alot of 262s most of those belong to Steven he's cornering the market hell he's probably has got mine over in his pile again if he's been there visiting


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

And so it begins . I am very excited! 
Thanks for doing the thread Randy


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## Adirondackstihl (Apr 6, 2015)

Potato


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## old-cat (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I get huge gains from the 262....


More huger than 35% I'll bet!


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

hanniedog said:


> So ya gonna mod mine pro bono?



Give me a shout in late May. We'll work something out. 



Fire8 said:


> That's alot of 262s most of those belong to Steven he's cornering the market hell he's probably has got mine over in his pile again if he's been there visiting



He got more of them a day or two ago.


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## hanniedog (Apr 6, 2015)

Would be a waste to have a saw modded when I still can't sharpen a chain worth a plug nickle.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

hanniedog said:


> Would be a waste to have a saw modded when I still can't sharpen a chain worth a plug nickle.



Have you tried the Husqvarna filing guides? They helped me more than I would have ever believed. 

http://www.sherrilltree.com/Chain-R...nj3nN7EpO1l0G-KFmmyjnxoC0LDw_wcB#.VSLAso4ymSo


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## hanniedog (Apr 6, 2015)

Just got one of those Pherd guides that does both rakers and cutters at the same time will see how that works.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

I'm I the only one that thinks this handlebar might be a little bent?


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'm I the only one that thinks this handlebar might be a little bent?
> 
> View attachment 417403


Its bent forward in that pic


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## redfin (Apr 6, 2015)

More pics pretty pleeeese.


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## old-cat (Apr 6, 2015)

Them handle bars are HARD to bend/straighten. I've done 2 now, what a fight!


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

redfin said:


> More pics pretty pleeeese.



I'm still tearing them down.....

I am getting pics though.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

Here's an early one.........





Yeah, it has the HDA 87 and a KS jug.


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Here's an early one.........
> 
> View attachment 417409
> View attachment 417410
> ...


Awesome


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

How about a blast from the past? 




I've not used these stickers for a few years now.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> Awesome



That's your saw Chris.


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> That's your saw Chris.


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## morewood (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'm I the only one that thinks this handlebar might be a little bent?
> 
> View attachment 417403


That one is from across the pond where sideways balance is most important.

Shea


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

randy can you point out the differences for the guys


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## .404 (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'm I the only one that thinks this handlebar might be a little bent?
> 
> View attachment 417403



It got too close to my 044 muffler outlet.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> randy can you point out the differences for the guys



The 87 has a little larger venturi than the 120, and the KS jug has more open transfer ports then the Mahle jug. The difference in how the saws run is not really noticeable though.


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

Thanks


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

.404 said:


> It got too close to my 044 muffler outlet.



REPPED !!!!!!!!


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## .404 (Apr 6, 2015)

Thanx Sugar Bush. lol


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## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

There's 3 saws that I have a difficult time sending back, 064's 044's and 262's. I'd love to get a 262 to tamper with.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)




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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> View attachment 417413
> View attachment 417414


Where are the bananas at ?


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## Fire8 (Apr 6, 2015)

I'm glad mine isn't in that lineup


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## procarbine2k1 (Apr 6, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> There's 3 saws that I have a difficult time sending back, 064's 044's and 262's. I'd love to get a 262 to tamper with.



Repped. Probably three of the best saws ever made.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> Where are the bananas at ?


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> View attachment 417415
> View attachment 417416


Lmao


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

Fire8 said:


> I'm glad mine isn't in that lineup



Yours is running like a champ......


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## BWS-LLC (Apr 6, 2015)

I picked up a 261 that was missing a muffler, clutch cover and had what looked to be a AM top end. I took it down, found a 262 cylinder and put it a 262 Meteor.

My 5 year old son with my guidance assembled 95% of it.
Seeing that it's his first saw he built, it's staying with me.

As a added bonus I ended up with the HDA-87 that Landmark gave away

Termite wants to play with it to see what he can accomplish.


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## SawTroll (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> View attachment 417413
> View attachment 417414




Are any of those Gilardoni, or are are they all KS or Mahle?


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Are any of those Gilardoni, or are are they all KS or Mahle?



I have one that has no markings Niko. It could be Gilardoni.


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## Fire8 (Apr 6, 2015)

Mine is the test saw that all 262 are measure by


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## SawTroll (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I have one that has no markings Niko. It could be Gilardoni.




OK, just checking on something I read on another forum - but that one alledgedly had numbers and "Gilardoni" on it.

Reportedly there were some non-decomp Mahle ones as well, contrary to what often is stated.

I would think one with no markings is an aftermarket one?


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## old-cat (Apr 6, 2015)

Fire8 said:


> Mine is the test saw that all 262 are measure by


I thought Bryon2 / Steven had that spot taken already!


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> OK, just checking on something I read on another forum - but that one alledgedly had numbers and "Gilardoni" on it.
> 
> Reportedly there were some non-decomp Mahle ones as well, contrary to what often is stated.
> 
> I would think one with no markings is an aftermarket one?



No sir. Absolutely not an aftermarket jug.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

I found some marks Niko........after it came outta the US cleaner. 

Misshapen but.......I think it is a Mahle.


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## Fire8 (Apr 6, 2015)

old-cat said:


> I thought Bryon2 / Steven had that spot taken already!


No because I have that saw,he's starting a herd of 262's


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## AR200 (Apr 6, 2015)

Is a Jonsered 630 the same saw?


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## M&Rtree (Apr 6, 2015)

Randy I have a handle if you need one.


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## drf255 (Apr 6, 2015)

I know I don't know you that well yet, and that you're an ape, but please let me see your jugs

I thought you'd sound like Roddy McDowell when we spoke.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

AR200 said:


> Is a Jonsered 630 the same saw?



I'm not sure.......the J'Reds confuse me. 



M&Rtree said:


> Randy I have a handle if you need one.



Thank you sir.......but I'm sure I can straighten this one up. 



drf255 said:


> I know I don't know you that well yet, and that you're an ape, but please let me see your jugs
> 
> I thought you'd sound like Roddy McDowell when we spoke.



I'll be at the lathe the rest of the day. No jugs for you sir. 

Your 066 will be done this week too. 

WTF is Roddy McDowell? lol


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## drf255 (Apr 6, 2015)

Cornelius my friend.


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## drf255 (Apr 6, 2015)

Think.....

His wife was Zera


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

It's Zira actually.


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## drf255 (Apr 6, 2015)

I never waz a great spella, or it auto corrected. 

Anyway, nice saws. 

Can't take you fishing with all those bananas.


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## Tor R (Apr 6, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Reportedly there were some non-decomp Mahle ones as well, contrary to what often is stated


What I've seen on those 262 I bought for a while ago.
Non-decomp Mahle 48ZK3
Decomp Mahle 48ZN15
I can only speak about those I got, 93 model are a very interesting year.


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

hanniedog said:


> Would be a waste to have a saw modded when I still can't sharpen a chain worth a plug nickle.


Send me your chain I will sharpen it for you buddy


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> Send me your chain I will sharpen it for you buddy


By hand


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## .404 (Apr 6, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Are any of those Gilardoni, or are are they all KS or Mahle?



Chiquita


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## ncfarmboy (Apr 6, 2015)

Jonsered 630 is not in the 262 family. It's in 625, 630,670 in Jred. 61,266,268,272 in Husky. 262 family 154,254,257,261,262.
Shep


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## jrocket (Apr 6, 2015)

could those same gains be had with a257? since it is very similar to the 262.


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## johnny5ny (Apr 6, 2015)




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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

jrocket said:


> could those same gains be had with a257? since it is very similar to the 262.



I do get good gains with those too.


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## Tor R (Apr 6, 2015)

Thanks so much for doing this, Randy.
I'm a big fan of 262, have 90,91KS, 94,95,96 Mahle + a new OEM Mahle. I may be the only one, but, I prefer the nice shine off the KS jugs!
Btw, all are projects waiting for your instructions


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

Chris asked me to post pics showing where the marks are that tell who made the jugs. 

Mahle:




Kolbenschmidt:


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

Tor R said:


> Thanks so much for doing this, Randy.
> I'm a big fan of 262, have 90,91KS, 94,95,96 Mahle + a new OEM Mahle. I may be the only one, but, I prefer the nice shine off the KS jugs!
> Btw, all are projects waiting for your instructions


How do you identify the build date ? So I know . its a newbie question I know but ty


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Chris asked me to post pics showing where the marks are that tell who made the jugs.
> 
> Mahle:
> 
> ...


Ty


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## Tor R (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Chris asked me to post pics showing where the marks are that tell who made the jugs.
> 
> Mahle:
> 
> ...


Did you get into some of the non-decomp Mahle, Randy?


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## johnny5ny (Apr 6, 2015)

Randy - real quick (so as not to derail this mofo)
262 vs. 562
1. Both stock
2. Both ported
GO!
(Thx buddy


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## Jon1212 (Apr 6, 2015)

Sir Randall,

Are any of those 262's from Utah?


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## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

johnny5ny said:


> Randy - real quick (so as not to derail this mofo)
> 262 vs. 562
> 1. Both stock
> 2. Both ported
> ...


Stock 562 if it runs.

Ported 262 nuff said


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

Here's some pics of what Jon has been doing.

First he heats one side so it's hot enough to just drop the bearing in the pocket.







Then he lets the bearing soak some heat out of the case half.....and then he slips the crank in.




Installs the gasket......






And heats the other half.




Slides it on.......bolts it all up.




And then centers the crank up with a brass hammer.


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

johnny5ny said:


> Randy - real quick (so as not to derail this mofo)
> 262 vs. 562
> 1. Both stock
> 2. Both ported
> ...


My 562 mmws run awesome its just a very smooth saw .
262 someone in this post got me hooked on them I can't wait to get my back to try it against the 562.


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## Tor R (Apr 6, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> How do you identify the build date ? So I know . its a newbie question I know but ty


I only check the serial number, 1 is the year, the two next is the week.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

Tor R said:


> Did you get into some of the non-decomp Mahle, Randy?



The only non decomp I have here is the KS. 



johnny5ny said:


> Randy - real quick (so as not to derail this mofo)
> 262 vs. 562
> 1. Both stock
> 2. Both ported
> ...



562 will take the 262 stock. Ported???? Well that depends on a lot of variables. 

I like the 262 myself....



Jon1212 said:


> Sir Randall,
> 
> Are any of those 262's from Utah?



One of them did.


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## johnny5ny (Apr 6, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> Stock 562 if it runs.
> 
> Ported 262 nuff said



I see what you did here


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## Tor R (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> The only non decomp I have here is the KS.


Thanks for the answer, me think the most rare jug was the Mahle non-decomp. I've only seen one, from earlier 93, unfortantly mine was scored...


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## Jon1212 (Apr 6, 2015)

Randy can get good gains out of any saw.

I have an MS390 that proves the above statement.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

There's a few that I've yet to get the gains I really hoped for out of. One is the Dolmar 6400. It's a bad ass 64cc saw stock.......and huge gains ave been ard to get for me there. I get gains.......but I think I should get more.


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## Tor R (Apr 6, 2015)

jrocket said:


> could those same gains be had with a257? since it is very similar to the 262.





Mastermind said:


> I do get good gains with those too.


interesting, The guy I bought a few 262 had some 257 that I could buy later


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## HuskStihl (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> And then centers the crank up with a brass hammer.
> 
> View attachment 417462



Brass Monkey


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## SawTroll (Apr 6, 2015)

Tor R said:


> What I've seen on those 262 I bought for a while ago.
> Non-decomp Mahle 48ZK3
> Decomp Mahle 48ZN15
> I can only speak about those I got, 93 model are a very interesting year.



My brother just told me that his non decomp 262xpg one also has a Mahle - hopefully he will be back with the year, but since it has a HD-87 it obviously is an early one (likely 1991 or earlier)?


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## Jon1212 (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> There's a few that I've yet to get the gains I really hoped for out of. One is the Dolmar 6400. It's a bad ass 64cc saw stock.......and huge gains ave been ard to get for me there. I get gains.......but I think I should get more.



I found a really low hour 6400 here in Utah, but it's a little too rich for me(approximately $400).

If I can get it for a decent price, I'll be happy to send it to you, Randy, for research purposes.


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## Tor R (Apr 6, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> My brother just told me that his non decomp 262xpg one also has a Mahle - hopefully he will be back with the year, but since it has a HD-87 it obviously is an early one (likely 1991 or earlier)?


if so, then I would think they mixed KS vs Mahle non-decomp from around 91


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## SawTroll (Apr 6, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> How do you identify the build date ? So I know . its a newbie question I know but ty



Serial number.


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## Tor R (Apr 6, 2015)

I was also shocked when I saw a midd 93 mod with KS and a 87 carb


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## SawTroll (Apr 6, 2015)

Tor R said:


> I was also shocked when I saw a midd 93 mod with KS and a 87 carb


No surprice with the KS jug - but the HD-87 hardly is original to a saw that late?

That is according to IPLs, but they don't always tell the full story!


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

Jon1212 said:


> I found a really low hour 6400 here in Utah, but it's a little too rich for me(approximately $400).
> 
> If I can get it for a decent price, I'll be happy to send it to you, Randy, for research purposes.



I have a couple of em.


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## SawTroll (Apr 6, 2015)

Tor R said:


> Thanks so much for doing this, Randy.
> I'm a big fan of 262, have 90,91KS, 94,95,96 Mahle + a new OEM Mahle. I may be the only one, but,* I prefer the nice shine off the KS jugs!*
> Btw, all are projects waiting for your instructions




If there was a Gilardoni, it might be even shinier - they are on some other models!


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## Tor R (Apr 6, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> No surprice with the KS jug - but the HD-87 hardly is original to a saw that late?
> 
> That is according to IPLs, but they don't always tell the full story!


the IPL doesnt tell the full story.
All KS jugs I've seen on mine they also have a 87 carb, I am almost 100% certain that KS=87.
But then we have your brother 262.
Hope you soon can figure out sn, jug and carb on that one for us Niko


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## SawTroll (Apr 6, 2015)

Tor R said:


> the IPL doesnt tell the full story.
> All KS jugs I've seen on mine they also have a 87 carb, I am almost 100% certain that KS=87.
> But then we have your brother 262.
> Hope you soon can figure out sn, jug and carb on that one for us Niko



So do I, but his stuff is scattered a bit around - I asked him to look for it though!

We will see....


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

My brains are scattered.......is that the same thing?


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## Jon1212 (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> My brains are scattered.......is that the same thing?


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## redfin (Apr 6, 2015)

Did a 261 ever run an 87 carb?


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## M&Rtree (Apr 6, 2015)

redfin said:


> Did a 261 ever run an 87 carb?


No


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## gregn (Apr 6, 2015)

This thread rocks


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

I've got seven of the squish bands cut.......gotta stop to print shipping labels. 

I'll add more to this tomorrow, we'll talk about timing numbers, and a few tricks that this saw really likes.


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## SawTroll (Apr 6, 2015)

M&Rtree said:


> No



True, no doubt - unless someone put it there later.

An issue with a discussion like this is of course what was original vs. what was put together later, but that is one of the combinations that surely wasn't original!


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

Last pic of the day.....


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

One of these saws is one I built several years ago.........it shows signs of possible detonation. It has a popup too.


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## Deets066 (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Or maybe I should have said days?
> 
> 10 of them total. 7 on the bench and 3 being assembled......
> 
> ...


It seems as though you don't have enough saws to port, maybe you should try some more advertisement!


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

Stop picking on me Deets.

I'll work on your jug as soon as I can.......OK? Good.

WaHahahahahahahahaha


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## Deets066 (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Stop picking on me Deets.
> 
> I'll work on your jug as soon as I can.......OK? Good.
> 
> WaHahahahahahahahaha


I think you'll like what you see when you get it on the degree wheel.


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## kz1000 (Apr 6, 2015)

You don't seem to have a problem with holding onto other peoples jugs while you ream them????????? What are you using on the case gaskets for assembly?


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## old-cat (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'll add more to this tomorrow, we'll talk about timing numbers, and a few tricks that this saw really likes.


Please, could we have a little bit of comparison with the STIHL 036 cylinders?


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

kz1000 said:


> You don't seem to have a problem with holding onto other peoples jugs while you ream them????????? What are you using on the case gaskets for assembly?



I'll show you a reaming........get over here. 

That's Loctite 518 on dem gaskets. Good insurance. 



old-cat said:


> Please, could we have a little bit of comparison with the STIHL 036 cylinders?



You show up with stock 036 specs, and we'll kick it around.


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## skippysphins (Apr 6, 2015)

Randy 
Thanks for all the extra work you are doing for everyone following this build . 
I appreciate it and I am sure they do too .
Chris


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## super3 (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> One of these saws is one I built several years ago............ It has a popup too.



Say it aint so Ethel !!!


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

super3 said:


> Say it aint so Ethel !!!



I used a lot of pop ups when I first started. 

I wonder if it caused this detonation issue? It seems that the edge of the popup could possibly divide the flame front and leave unburnt gases at the outer edge that could cause detonation.


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## super3 (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I used a lot of pop ups when I first started.
> 
> I wonder if it caused this detonation issue? It seems that the edge of the popup could possibly divide the flame front and leave unburnt gases at the outer edge that could cause detonation.



It does disrupt the flow. Was this your saw?


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## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I used a lot of pop ups when I first started.
> 
> I wonder if it caused this detonation issue? It seems that the edge of the popup could possibly divide the flame front and leave unburnt gases at the outer edge that could cause detonation.



Laminar flow works with or against. With no strato ports separation of burnt and unburnt is less, so detonation is a possibility with a pop up. Get a little pooling on the flat side of the piston and bang.


All speculation of course. I'm just butt hurt you're hoarding 262s.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

super3 said:


> It does disrupt the flow. Was this your saw?



No.....it was one I built several years ago for a tree killer. It's been well used.


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> Laminar flow works with or against. With no strato ports separation of burnt and unburnt is less, so detonation is a possibility with a pop up. Get a little pooling on the flat side of the piston and bang.
> 
> 
> All speculation of course. I'm just butt hurt you're hoarding 262s.



Pics of the butt hurt?


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## super3 (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> No.....it was one I built several years ago for a tree killer. It's been well used.




Bit of bad fuel.


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## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Pics of the butt hurt? [emoji14]icture:


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## Deets066 (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Pics of the butt hurt?


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## Mastermind (Apr 6, 2015)

super3 said:


> Bit of bad fuel.



Very well could have been Mike. 



cuttinties said:


>



Oh my !!!!


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## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Very well could have been Mike.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my !!!!


Hey I meant to call you. If you happen to have an 260 cylinder laying around could you measure the cylinder base dimensions for me? I'd hate to buy one just to measure it.


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## SawTroll (Apr 6, 2015)

super3 said:


> It does disrupt the flow. Was this your saw?



Pop-ups seems like a last ditch attemt to improve compression - but does anyone really know that max compression on the top really improves power? I'd think that case compression, transfers, carb capasity and mufflers are more important - but then I am not an "expert".....


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## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Pop-ups seems like a last ditch attemt to improve compression - but does anyone really know that max compression on the top really improves power? I'd think that case compression, transfers, carb capasity and mufflers are more important - but then I am not an "expert".....


Well I'll further confuse you. I've got a saw I purposely built with 150lbs of compression. Just happens to be a 268. But I'll confuse you a little bit more. I cut the squish band flat and set my clearance at .020. Any guess as to why I did this?


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 6, 2015)

old-cat said:


> I thought Bryon2 / Steven had that spot taken already!



Danny hounded me for months to get my finger ported 262xp. I finally consented to sell, since I had 2 mint ones put up. But then I bought Wiggs minty one, and took another as partial trade for my MMWS362cmr.


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 6, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> My 562 mmws run awesome its just a very smooth saw .
> 262 someone in this post got me hooked on them I can't wait to get my back to try it against the 562.



Theres no comparison between the 2. Id rather have a 2 series saw than any current offering.


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 6, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> Well I'll further confuse you. I've got a saw I purposely built with 150lbs of compression. Just happens to be a 268. But I'll confuse you a little bit more. I cut the squish band flat and set my clearance at .020. Any guess as to why I did this?



Surely - but getting a decent top end compression isn't the same as hunting for an extreme one.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Surely - but getting a decent top end compression isn't the same as hunting for an extreme one.


Compression serves a purpose. Extreme is relative to the end use. Compression is resistance and every action has an equal reaction.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 6, 2015)

minor derail........will a 262 jug direct bolt on a late 61? and if so will it be a great improvement?


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 6, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> minor derail........will a 262 jug direct bolt on a late 61? and if so will it be a great improvement?


No


----------



## cgraham1 (Apr 6, 2015)

Jon1212 said:


> Sir Randall,
> 
> Are any of those 262's from Utah?


Jon, mine is headed to Tenn. in June. It came from Utah.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 6, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> No


but a 268 will?


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 7, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> but a 268 will?


Depends on what year. But the 61,266,268,272 are the same chassis. But in the later years they introduced an intake boot amongst other changes.


----------



## Nitroman (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> View attachment 417414



I like this photo, I like it ALOT!


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 7, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> Depends on what year. But the 61,266,268,272 are the same chassis. But in the later years they introduced an intake boot amongst other changes.



There were lots of changes, but basically the same - and you left out the original, that was the 162, in 1975.

This has nothing to do with the 262 though, that was developed on the smaller 154/254 platform, that appeared in 1983.


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 7, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> minor derail........will a 262 jug direct bolt on a late 61? and if so will it be a great improvement?




It would have been; if it was possible - but I am about 99.999% sure it isn't. The bore and stroke is the same, but it hardly helps when the saws are totally different constructions.

The 61 belongs to the 162 family, not the 154 family that the 262 belongs to.


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Apr 7, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> every action has an equal reaction.



Hi Buddy


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Nitroman said:


> I like this photo, I like it ALOT!



Your saw came together very well Roger. I had a spare tank even.......no blisters anywhere now.


----------



## Nitroman (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Your saw came together very well Roger. I had a spare tank even.......no blisters anywhere now.



I was really looking for that in the first photos and didn't see it. Thought I'd be in the next set of builds. Then I saw the jugs and got excited. .


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Your saw is the one Jon is putting together in this thread.

At least I think it is.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

So what's the plan of attack today ? I'm sure we are very excited to continue reading this build thread !
Chris


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Lots more machine work is the first thing for today. Right now I'm printing a few shipping labels.


----------



## David Young (Apr 7, 2015)

What are the blisters from. I have one that has blisters on the air filter cover. Seems odd


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

David Young said:


> What are the blisters from. I have one that has blisters on the air filter cover. Seems odd



It looks like someone sat Roger's saw down too close to a fire.


----------



## rattler362 (Apr 7, 2015)

subbing


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

rattler362 said:


> subbing



That'll be tree fitty


----------



## rattler362 (Apr 7, 2015)

Will a pie do?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Heck Yeah !!!!!!


----------



## rattler362 (Apr 7, 2015)

What flavor?


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

Banana cream


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Thanks.........now I'm hungry again.


----------



## rattler362 (Apr 7, 2015)

I stay that way


----------



## mr.finn (Apr 7, 2015)

Looking to see this thread develop. I love my 262. I hope I don't want it ported after this.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

mr.finn said:


> Looking to see this thread develop. I love my 262. I hope I don't want it ported after this.


You will want it ported ! Lol


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

All the machine work is finally done.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

I see mine I think


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm gonna eat supper.......when I get back I'll bolt on a stock jug to check all factory numbers. Then we'll see where we wanna go.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

Have some pie you deserve it today buddy


----------



## fastLeo151 (Apr 7, 2015)

Is this where the cool kids hang out??

If no, point me in the right direction.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

Not here lol


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

fastLeo151 said:


> Is this where the cool kids hang out??
> 
> If no, point me in the right direction.



It was.......then you showed up. 

Just kidding Andy. Come on in.


----------



## fastLeo151 (Apr 7, 2015)

[Don't E="Mastermind, post: 5307453, member: 43167"]It was.......then you showed up. 

Just kidding Andy. Come on in. [/QUOTE]

Dont forget us Ohio guys are thin skinned and cant take a joke....


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

OK, I've checked the timing numbers. Stock Mahle jug, with a base gasket. 

EX: 103.5
TR: 116
IN: 69

That means we have only 12.5 degrees of blowdown. Cool huh? 

Case compression angle is 47 degrees. 

No wonder these saws are factory hotrods.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> OK, I've checked the timing numbers. Stock Mahle jug, with a base gasket.
> 
> EX: 103.5
> TR: 116
> ...


Can you explain a Lil deeper for me I am a newb


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

After cutting the base I end up with the intake at 71.5.


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 7, 2015)




----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> Can you explain a Lil deeper for me I am a newb



I'll try Chris. 

Remember, this are just my thoughts.....

In a two stroke engine the transfers are everything. The air/fuel mix has to get around the piston from the crankcase to get into the combustion chamber. 

This saw has a very short intake duration, and a high transfer opening point. The intake being short is what allows the transfers to open as soon as they do. 

People think about blowdown far too much IMHO. The transfers opening is what pushes the remains of the exhaust out........as long as the pressure is not greater than the transfer flow. If the intake is too low, then there isn't as great of a pressure when then transfers open, and the exhaust can travel down the transfer ports......

There's a hell of a lot more at play here, but that's the quick and dirty version....


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> After cutting the base I end up with the intake at 71.5.



I'll take the main transfers to 118, and the fingers to 116. The exhaust will open at 103. 

As you can see, I will not vary from the factory timing numbers much at all here.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm gonna be finding all my port heights now. 

If y'all have questions.......post up.


----------



## fastLeo151 (Apr 7, 2015)

Randy keep an eye out for a good user 262 out for me please.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

fastLeo151 said:


> Randy keep an eye out for a good user 262 out for me please.



I might have an extra one. It would be an ugly son of a gun though.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

Are the numbers the same for the ks cylinder? Or is that a different ball of wax ?


----------



## drf255 (Apr 7, 2015)

How much did you take out of the squish band?

How do you "take the transfers to 118" if they're at 116? I'm assuming that they come out lower after the machine work.

Do you feel that your theory of lowering exhaust helps the exhaust pressure to be lower and thus helps the difference in transfer pressure differential?

Can you post the numbers, after the squish and base cut, before you monkey with them?

BTW, you look more like Ergo.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 7, 2015)

So the way I read it, you're adding 2.5* to all with your cut. So you're exhaust will be at 106.5 and the tranny's at 118.5?

So you'll have to raise the exhaust. 

Am I reading you correctly here?

This thread is awesome Randy. Thanks again. I'm about to do a 262 up. 

I'd love some pics of the jugs and the fingers. Bridges too?

The single ring with the centered groove is nice in these saws.


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 7, 2015)

M&Rtree said:


> View attachment 417731



1989!


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> Are the numbers the same for the ks cylinder? Or is that a different ball of wax ?



They are the same. 



drf255 said:


> How much did you take out of the squish band?
> 
> How do you "take the transfers to 118" if they're at 116? I'm assuming that they come out lower after the machine work.
> 
> ...



The transfers are at 125, and the exhaust is at 107 after machine work. 

The ports will not move the same. Remember rod angle, etc......

.040 out of the squish band, and .026 off the base.


----------



## fastLeo151 (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I might have an extra one. It would be an ugly son of a gun though.



Even new huskys are ugly, I'm interested.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> They are the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From what I was taught and what I've learned is the more you lower the cylinder the faster numbers change with smaller amount of materials removed.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> They are the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Got it.

So degree changes are not linear because of the variation in piston speed from the crank throw.

BTW, I reviewed all the pics in the thread. Your banana is supposed to go between the jugs, not in them.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> From what I was taught and what I've learned is the more you lower the cylinder the faster numbers change with smaller amount of materials removed.



I'm not picking up what you're putting down.....


----------



## drf255 (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'm not picking up what you're putting down.....


Exponential increases


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Stop calling me names Al.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'm not picking up what you're putting down.....


Say you drop a .020 base gasket and your intake goes from 145 to 147. But if you take another .020 off the base it may end up at 151. The piston has to travel further to cover up the port. (Only the intake seems to act this way) I'd say that piston speed plays a role. I'm horrible at explaining things my apologies I shouldn't have tried to[emoji52] throwing more confusion into your thread.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

No worries. 

I've noticed that the transfers move a bunch while the intake only drops a few degrees. 

On this engine, I cut .026 off the base.....the intake moved about three degrees, but the transfers moved nine.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Stop calling me names Al.


I will refrain from further primate references for the rest of my days.


----------



## old-cat (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> OK, I've checked the timing numbers. Stock Mahle jug, with a base gasket.
> 
> EX: 103.5
> TR: 116
> ...


That satisfies all of my curiosity, right there!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

drf255 said:


> I will refrain from further primate references for the rest of my days.



I was talking about this. 

Exponential increases.....


----------



## drf255 (Apr 7, 2015)

Oh.....

Carry on.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Repped.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 7, 2015)

What about exhaust pressure and exhaust opening. Do you feel that it plays any role?

Specifically with the transfer pressure differential?


----------



## drf255 (Apr 7, 2015)

Great Fricken thread this is.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

drf255 said:


> What about exhaust pressure and exhaust opening. Do you feel that it plays any role?
> 
> Specifically with the transfer pressure differential?



Remember what I said about blowdown? 

I use an exhaust to displacement rule.........

According to my rule, this saw will be at 103.


----------



## Paragon Builder (Apr 7, 2015)

I think I remember you mentioned the exhaust to displacement rule in another thread. Was it your trade secret or can you share it?


----------



## showrguy (Apr 7, 2015)

I should'nt be reading this thread.............This chit is way over my paygrade..
Carry on..


----------



## Marshy (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> OK, I've checked the timing numbers. Stock Mahle jug, with a base gasket.
> 
> EX: 103.5
> TR: 116
> ...


 
I'm with Chris on this, a little green. Please explain how you measure these numbers. Maybe you have already taken the time to explain this? I think I get the gist of useing a timing wheel and the light trick at the port. What Im unsure about is, what is your 0 deg reference piont TDC or BDC. These measurements (assuming TDC=0 deg) are taken then the port opening (aka the ceiling/roof) correct? What about durration of the ports, how come you never comment on it, seems like port duration is equally important? Is this asking too much to share? I can respect that. Thanks!


----------



## Paragon Builder (Apr 7, 2015)

showrguy said:


> I should'nt be reading this thread.............This chit is way over my paygrade..
> Carry on..


Damn, you get payed to read???
I'm jealous!


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Paragon Builder said:


> I think I remember you mentioned the exhaust to displacement rule in another thread. Was it your trade secret or can you share it?



It's simple. 

50cc = 105 
60cc =103
70cc = 101

It gets weird after that........101 is good all the way to 120cc really. 



showrguy said:


> I should'nt be reading this thread.............This chit is way over my paygrade..
> Carry on..



I know better........you're smarter than any of us.



Marshy said:


> I'm with Chris on this, a little green. Please explain how you measure these numbers. Maybe you have already taken the time to explain this? I think I get the gist of useing a timing wheel and the light trick at the port. What Im unsure about is, what is your 0 deg reference piont TDC or BDC. These measurements (assuming TDC=0 deg) are taken then the port opening (aka the ceiling/roof) correct? What about durration of the ports, how come you never comment on it, seems like port duration is equally important? Is this asking too much to share? I can respect that. Thanks!



I measure opening points from TDC. That's the roof of the exhaust port, and transfers.......but the floor of the intake.

I don't worry about duration at all.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

I am more a hands on type if learner .


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Me too Chris. 

I've completely destroyed a bunch of jugs.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Me too Chris.
> 
> I've completely destroyed a bunch of jugs.


I have a feeling I will be buying some I don't care about


----------



## kz1000 (Apr 7, 2015)

This is cool, I haven't seen this many questions about how it is, done since the scene in Jurassic Park about the baby dinosaurs.


----------



## Paragon Builder (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> It's simple.
> 
> 50cc = 105
> 60cc =103
> ...


Wow! Thanks. 
Does this follow true through all makes?

Is this an experience (trial and error) thing, or is there some kind of "science" behind it?

And how do you determine transfer and intake heights based on this?


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

kz1000 said:


> This is cool, I haven't seen this many questions about how it is, done since the scene in Jurassic Park about the baby dinosaurs.


Ty kz I feel really stupid now lol


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Paragon Builder said:


> Wow! Thanks.
> Does this follow true through all makes?
> 
> Is this an experience (trial and error) thing, or is there some kind of "science" behind it?
> ...



It works for me. 

I'm not smart enough to tell you why. I've only got an eighth grade education. 

Now transfer ports are black magic. Their height depends on whether the engine is quad port, dual port, intake height, case volume, etc. 

Intake heights can be very confusing too. Throttle plate size, transfer height, case volume, etc all play a role in that one too.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm done for today........

All the transfer ports are roughed in.......


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

Thanks again Randy!!


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 7, 2015)

Could I use cheap aftermarket cylinders to try


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 7, 2015)

You poor bastard.....Meaning only I reallllly pity you.... I thought you were taking April OFF? My hands ache just looking at 9 jugs.....


----------



## weedkilla (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'll try Chris.
> 
> Remember, this are just my thoughts.....
> 
> ...


I feel like I have my boots stuck in mud when it comes to really understanding transfers, but I think I just got how the 066 lit up after you filled the inlet floor. 

Thanks - although I've said it many times - for the amount you've shared with so many of us. 
Engine tuning has always been cloaked in secrets, yet you continue to prove that giving up your secrets just shows the difference between the professionals and amateurs.


----------



## weedkilla (Apr 7, 2015)

Duane(Pa) said:


> My hands ache just looking at 9 jugs.....




Erm?


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 7, 2015)

When these are done, hope you add the Poulan 3750 to the videos for comparison.


----------



## Nitroman (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Or maybe I should have said days?
> 
> 10 of them total. 7 on the bench and 3 being assembled......
> 
> View attachment 417386



I can't believe I blew right over it. There was The Big Hint right in front of me. Geez. See what adrenaline does to me?

I am trying to find an appropriate box to put that oil in to send to you. I have a postal nazi watching me closely at my local P.O. so I'll have to sneak it past them. Even though it will be packaged perfectly. Will get it out this week. You'll love it.


----------



## fastLeo151 (Apr 7, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> When these are done, hope you add the Poulan 3750 to the videos for comparison.



That would be great to see that saw hang with a 262 but I don't see it happening.

Randy,
Need anymore poulan parts yet?


----------



## Eccentric (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Here's some pics of what Jon has been doing.
> 
> First he heats one side so it's hot enough to just drop the bearing in the pocket.
> 
> ...




Ummmmm....................................


Whut about da FW side bearing Randy? Methinks you skipped a step or two and a couple pichurs.........


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 7, 2015)

fastLeo151 said:


> That would be great to see that saw hang with a 262 but I don't see it happening.
> 
> Randy,
> Need anymore poulan parts yet?




Randy's looks pretty good. Not finger ported 262 good, but......


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Duane(Pa) said:


> You poor bastard.....Meaning only I reallllly pity you.... I thought you were taking April OFF? My hands ache just looking at 9 jugs.....



I'm gonna get to take part of April off. 



fastLeo151 said:


> That would be great to see that saw hang with a 262 but I don't see it happening.
> 
> Randy,
> Need anymore poulan parts yet?



I don't think it will quite do it either. Close I bet. 



Eccentric said:


> Ummmmm....................................
> 
> 
> Whut about da FW side bearing Randy? Methinks you skipped a step or two and a couple pichurs.........



Lightening......

What? 

Yeah, that's how we do it.


----------



## Eccentric (Apr 7, 2015)

You leave out the FW side bearing? PROOF that DuH1984 contributed something to the MasterMoobs shop afterall....


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Eccentric said:


> You leave out the FW side bearing? PROOF that DuH1984 contributed something to the MasterMoobs shop afterall....




PROOF huh? 

I got yer damn PROOF mister.


----------



## Eccentric (Apr 7, 2015)

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/262xp-day.277547/page-5#post-5305652


Reread yer post carefully. Follow the steps and the pichurs....


----------



## Eccentric (Apr 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> PROOF huh?
> 
> I got yer damn PROOF mister.



262XP Unibearing Edition.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Spare parts.......

Meh


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2015)

Eccentric said:


> 262XP *Unibearing Edition*.



REPPED !!!!!!!


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 7, 2015)

Less friction=more pizz revving?


----------



## Eccentric (Apr 8, 2015)

Optimum blend.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.

So by what I'm seeing and what you're saying here Randy, piston speed is the fastest at mid stroke, then slows from top to bottom. This would make sense, because at TDC, dwell time is present. So zero piston movement despite crank rotation.

So piston speed must be represented as a sine wave.

So in essence, when you lower a jug, even when you cut an equal popup, you're changing the timing of the jug, period. Whenever you move the port away or towards the centerline of the crank, the degrees of rotation that cause a fixed amount of movement will change.

Removing a fixed amount of material, anywhere, is going to affect the timing numbers as it's a non linear relationship.

So in theory, if I cut the jugs that I've already ported with the numbers you've shared, the BD will change even though the ports aren't moved in relation to each other.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

Also wondering how piston speed at opening and closing points affects port function and placement. Dolmar's have weird numbers, small cases, and long looking jugs.

You gained 5.5* of blowdown just by moving the jug down without touching a port.


----------



## Paragon Builder (Apr 8, 2015)

drf255 said:


> I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.
> 
> So by what I'm seeing and what you're saying here Randy, piston speed is the fastest at mid stroke, then slows from top to bottom. This would make sense, because at TDC, dwell time is present. So zero piston movement despite crank rotation.
> 
> ...


Great post!


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

S0 an intake port should be open for the most amount of TIME because of where it's placed in the chamber. Piston speed would be the slowest of all the ports. 

Sorry if I'm giving anyone a headache here, but does the top of the transfer port need to be covered by the rings before the intake opens to I sure no intake back through the transfers?

I'm sorry if I'm hijacking this into a porting theory thread. I'm just trying to make it all click.


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 8, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'm done for today........
> 
> All the transfer ports are roughed in.......
> 
> View attachment 417780


Slacker. I thought you'd have these done by now. After all, I can do this many saws in 5-10 weeks.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 8, 2015)

drf255 said:


> S0 an intake port should be open for the most amount of TIME because of where it's placed in the chamber. Piston speed would be the slowest of all the ports.
> 
> Sorry if I'm giving anyone a headache here, but does the top of the transfer port need to be covered by the rings before the intake opens to I sure no intake back through the transfers?
> 
> I'm sorry if I'm hijacking this into a porting theory thread. I'm just trying to make it all click.


Piston speed is the same. The only way to change piston speed is by affecting stroke. The length of time in which the port is open is relative to the Dwell time at top dead center. That's affected by the rod length/stroke. But considering that saws are very short stroke I don't believe that the Dwell time isn't affected quite like you're thinking. Going by chordal width and duration the exhaust is usually open longer, and has more time area than the intake.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 8, 2015)

My phone likes to capitalize the word Dwell.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> Piston speed is the same. The only way to change piston speed is by affecting stroke. The length of time in which the port is open is relative to the Dwell time at top dead be center. That's affected by the rod length/stroke. But considering that saws are very short stroke I don't believe that the Dwell time isn't affected quite like you're thinking. Going by chordal width and duration the exhaust is usually open longer, and has more time area than the intake.


How could it be the same?

Look at Randy's numbers. How did his intake only move 2.5*, the exhaust 3* and the transfers move 7* if piston speed was constant.

The piston is moving a different distance per degree of crank rotation at different points.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 8, 2015)

drf255 said:


> How could it be the same?
> 
> Look at Randy's numbers. How did his intake only move 2.5*, the exhaust 3* and the transfers move 7* if piston speed was constant.


Unless you change the stroke piston speed is not changed. What you're seeing is affected more by crank angle than piston speed. The longer the stroke the higher the piston speed. This is why Randy's exhaust height guidelines work so well for him. Higher piston speed allows for higher durations. What appears to make the piston slow or dwell isn't slowing the crank down. For the time you're considering the port open the opposite is closed. So the intake isn't open longer than the exhaust. The durations of the transfers are affected because of the fact the location on the cylinder. 

Look at the intake or exhaust ports and you'll notice that they reset (repeat their cycle) very much sooner before the transfers. Another thing to remember is that a smaller port is covered faster than a larger port. Which means that the durations will be affected quicker.


----------



## old-cat (Apr 8, 2015)

You guys are just TOTALLY over thinking! Trial and error is the only way you can make engines run better.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 8, 2015)

old-cat said:


> You guys are just TOTALLY over thinking! Trial and error is the only way you can make engines run better.


It's not necessarily over thinking. Piston speed affects everything that happens in a 2 stroke. Give me a couple of days and I'll post up my notes I've found playing with piston speed formula.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 8, 2015)

So Randy 
Good morning did you have your java and grits ? Where is the thread going to today ? This has been very informative thus far going back together is harder than taking apart right ? Keep up the good work thanks .
Skippy


----------



## old-cat (Apr 8, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> It's not necessarily over thinking. Piston speed affects everything that happens in a 2 stroke. Give me a couple of days and I'll post up my notes I've found playing with piston speed formula.


All the thinking is fine, let your imagination roll! But it's only by making the mods that you can learn what works and what don't.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> Unless you change the stroke piston speed is not changed. What you're seeing is affected more by crank angle than piston speed. The longer the stroke the higher the piston speed. This is why Randy's exhaust height guidelines work so well for him. Higher piston speed allows for higher durations. What appears to make the piston slow or dwell isn't slowing the crank down. For the time you're considering the port open the opposite is closed. So the intake isn't open longer than the exhaust. The durations of the transfers are affected because of the fact the location on the cylinder.
> 
> Look at the intake or exhaust ports and you'll notice that they reset (repeat their cycle) very much sooner before the transfers. Another thing to remember is that a smaller port is covered faster than a larger port. Which means that the durations will be affected quicker.


Yes. The longer the stroke, the more the opening points will vary with a change in height. 

We're saying the same thing here. A degree of rotation will move the piston a greater distance near the 90* mark than at 0*. So the speed (distance/time) will not be static for the entire stroke.


----------



## redfin (Apr 8, 2015)

drf255 said:


> A degree of rotation will move the piston a greater distance near the 90* mark than at 0*. So the speed (distance/time) will not be static for the entire stroke.



You have this backwards, the rod being further from center does not change speed just the relation of distance traveled.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 8, 2015)

old-cat said:


> All the thinking is fine, let your imagination roll! But it's only by making the mods that you can learn what works and what don't.


Trial and error work yes. But if you feel like looking deeper into how things work and applying it you'll never get optimal results. Trust me ruin a couple of cylinders and make a bad runner you'll look past what you think and dig for solid facts to find the cause. I built a saw that no doubt in my mind will be faster than better than half of the 385/390 build off saws (not even a Husqvarna). I want to know why I make the gains I do on that model. It only matters if you know where you're going and why.


----------



## redfin (Apr 8, 2015)

redfin said:


> You have this backwards, the rod being further from center does not change speed just the relation of distance traveled.



And those two points that we are relating are the piston and degrees of crank turning. This is clear in my head but prolly isn't making it out here.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

redfin said:


> And those two points that we are relating are the piston and degrees of crank turning. This is clear in my head but prolly isn't making it out here.


Mine either.

When the crank throw is positioned 90* to the left or right of the centerline, looking at the crank dead on at the end, the amount of movement of the rod or piston should be the greatest for one degree of rotation than at any other point.

When it's at 0 or 180*, one degree of crank movement will move the piston very little.

With 4 strokes, we want the longest rod available because it will slightly increase dwell time and allow more combustion pressure to build before the downstroke. Hence using 5.7" connecting rods in a 383 Chebby over the stock 5.65" 400 rods.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

Anyone who's hooked a degree wheel up to a saw has seen this. 

Try to find no piston movement at TDC. You can rotate the wheel 10* before you see movement either way. Loot at the piston through the exhaust port. You can see 1* of rotation. 

I'm just trying to understand the relationship as it affects port timing and power.

I'm wondering if the difference between piston vs. Crank speed may be part of the "black magic" of saw performance porting.

I could be very wrong here though. The rod angle changes as well, so the moment of the prison based on crank oration may be geometrically changed.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 8, 2015)

old-cat said:


> You guys are just TOTALLY over thinking! Trial and error is the only way you can make engines run better.



Not the only way.......but they are overthinking the whole thing I believe.

I was mistaken about how much difference there was.......it's more like 5 degrees. I had a couple of odd jugs in the mix. The transfers were lower on those jugs.

When I checked the after machined heights I grabbed the wrong jug.

Al, you are right though.......at TDC and BTD the crank has to turn further to produce piston movement, so piston speed has to be faster at mid point, or 90 degrees than at top or bottom......a sine wave pattern. After all the piston has to stop, and change direction at each end of the stroke. It better slow down some first. 

The transfer ports are at 120 opening point on average, and are fully open at BDC. That explains why they move more degrees in crank rotation per .001" of cylinder drop.


----------



## redfin (Apr 8, 2015)

drf255 said:


> With 4 strokes, we want the longest rod available because it will slightly increase dwell time and allow more combustion pressure to build before the downstroke. Hence using 5.7" connecting rods in a 383 Chebby over the stock 5.65" 490 rods.



I must like over thinking but does the distance from crank centerline to rod bearing have more affect on dwell than rod lenght?


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

redfin said:


> I must like over thinking but does the distance from crank centerline to rod bearing have more affect on dwell than rod lenght?


Same thing bud. The longer the rod, the longer the distance.


----------



## redfin (Apr 8, 2015)

drf255 said:


> Same thing bud. The longer the rod, the longer the distance.



I was referring to the rod bearing at the crank and diameter of crank.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 8, 2015)

I've been fingering these jugs. 

Am I doing it wrong?


----------



## redfin (Apr 8, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I've been fingering these jugs.
> 
> Am I doing it wrong?


We shall need pics to determine.


----------



## Paragon Builder (Apr 8, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I've been fingering these jugs.
> 
> Am I doing it wrong?


Depends. One or two fingers?[emoji13]


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 8, 2015)

Paragon Builder said:


> Depends. One or two fingers?[emoji13]



Yes.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 8, 2015)

They are all roughed in. Now to get the top dead on in height, and make the depths all uniform.


----------



## srcarr52 (Apr 8, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Not the only way.......but they are overthinking the whole thing I believe.
> 
> I was mistaken about how much difference there was.......it's more like 5 degrees. I had a couple of odd jugs in the mix. The transfers were lower on those jugs.
> 
> ...




You all know the math for this is not terrible and it's all laid out in Bell's book pretty well. There are also a couple of websites that have port opening/duration calculators if you have an affliction with calculators or excel.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 8, 2015)

I'll just keep measuring. lol


----------



## .404 (Apr 8, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Am I doing it wrong?



Well does sinusoidal really describe it? I've often wondered.


----------



## Hedgerow (Apr 8, 2015)

srcarr52 said:


> You all know the math for this is not terrible and it's all laid out in Bell's book pretty well. There are also a couple of websites that have port opening/duration calculators if you have an affliction with calculators or excel.


Not afflicted with those...


Nope....



Not at all...


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 8, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> They are all roughed in. Now to get the top dead on in height, and make the depths all uniform.
> 
> View attachment 417947


My hands hurt just thinking about that much grinding in one day!


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 8, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> My hands hurt just thinking about that much grinding in one day!



Still going. 

All right angle work now. Getting the tips of the fingers just exactly the right height, and tightening the corners of the mains.


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 8, 2015)

Tedious work.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

Love it bro. Keep going.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

So a bigger finger and no bridges?





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

They look more like bananas than fingers to me.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

.404 said:


> Well does sinusoidal really describe it? I've often wondered.
> View attachment 417948


Looks like red is the real world length, so sinusoidal may be appropriate.

Long rod lengths should make it peakier.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 8, 2015)

Not just fingers.......fingers and bridges. 




This is the swarf from the transfer work so far. For visual reference that tool is 7" long with the burr. 




I'm taking my lovely wife out for Sushi. She's been fasting and this is a great way to break her fast. 

Later.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 8, 2015)

Nice!

4 bananas per jug!


----------



## cheeves (Apr 8, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Not just fingers.......fingers and bridges.
> 
> View attachment 417960
> 
> ...


Too much!!!


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 8, 2015)

Looking great


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 8, 2015)

Sushi now I'm hungry


----------



## Tor R (Apr 8, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Not just fingers.......fingers and bridges.
> 
> View attachment 417960
> 
> ...


Randy,
Without doing the base&squish, just by doing finger and bridge, how much gain do you think that modd would bring?

And second, how close to perfect do you think the timings are on standard 262?

I also have a third question, do your guys now and then shave off the lower transfer a bit, or would it not mather at all?


----------



## srcarr52 (Apr 8, 2015)

.404 said:


> Well does sinusoidal really describe it? I've often wondered.
> View attachment 417948



Yes it does, the red line is pretty close to a sine wave, it's just 1/2 the cycle. 

Also note that a rod length of 2x the stroke gets the closest to a sine wave where anything else yields a larger velocity near TDC (less dwell). Although almost all engines are below 2 rod to stroke ratio.


----------



## .404 (Apr 8, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> For visual reference that tool is 7" long..........




Hehe heh tool.....


----------



## rattler362 (Apr 8, 2015)

This Thread has got to be one of the best of all-time so many great minds in one place at the same time and some great pic's and explanations now Carry on men I shall hush


----------



## weedkilla (Apr 8, 2015)

Clearly a guide to finger ports.


----------



## Marshy (Apr 8, 2015)

redfin said:


> I must like over thinking but does the distance from crank centerline to rod bearing have more affect on dwell than rod lenght?


 
The length of the stroke does not affect the dwell time. The rod's length in relation to the stroke does. The shorter rod will have less 'dwell' time at tdc, but the long rod will have greater acceleration (not to be confused with velocity) back down towards bdc.
The longer rod engine will have less time to fill the cylinder due to the fact that while its piston is still hanging around at TDC, the short rod engine has already beguns its travel (and suction) downward. This is advatageous for low to mid engine speeds. Once the short rod engine reaches high RPM the stress of that short rod pressing against the cylinder sidewall (termed: sidewall load) can have ill effecs (cracking sleeves, overheating, power loss due to excessive friction). Piston speed is merely a factor of the length of the stroke itself and RPM.

I've been doing some reading lately because a little while back there was another discussion about rod length and dwell times and I was overlooking the dynamics of how the rod length effects over a given crank angle. http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/finding-the-con-rod-length.274140/


----------



## Marshy (Apr 8, 2015)

.404 said:


> Well does sinusoidal really describe it? I've often wondered.
> View attachment 417948


Yes it does. It represents position of the piston vs time. When you increase the rod length the wave changes, the piston spends more time near TDC and BDC for a given change in crank angle.

A longer rod ratio produces a more uniform piston velocity throughout its stroke. Thus a long rod produces lower peak piston velocities/accelerations/jerk etc. Generally, intake flow stagnates at sonic velocity. And since intake velocity through the ports is relatively proportional to piston speed, intake flow benefits from reduced peak piston velocity.
Engine design variables like stroke/bore ratios and rod ratios is an excercise in compromise. For low speed engines, a long rod is especially beneficial. It reduces peak piston velocities/accelerations and inertia loads on the rod and crank bearings. A long rod also minimises rod angulation and thrust load/friction losses at the piston skirt.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 8, 2015)

Tor R said:


> Randy,
> Without doing the base&squish, just by doing finger and bridge, how much gain do you think that modd would bring?
> 
> And second, how close to perfect do you think the timings are on standard 262?
> ...



I'm sure there would be gains.......I have no idea how much though. 

For that saw........they are very good. And by studying the port layout of the 262, and considering the timing numbers, I'm sure ideas begin to form.....

Yes? 

On this saw I barely touch the lowers. 

But I do knock off the lip on many others.


----------



## Fire8 (Apr 8, 2015)

Randy fire up the Legend and give them alittle sample of the 262 bahaha


----------



## Nitroman (Apr 8, 2015)

I cannot believe you guys are even arguing about piston speeds, rod lengths, the shape of the speed of the piston....seriously? Have you nothing better to do? Why don't you go play with your kids or something?


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 8, 2015)

Lol


----------



## Marshy (Apr 8, 2015)

Nitroman said:


> I cannot believe you guys are even arguing about piston speeds, rod lengths, the shape of the speed of the piston....seriously? Have you nothing better to do? Why don't you go play with your kids or something?


 Who's arguing? Just a conversation...


----------



## .404 (Apr 8, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Yes it does.



No it doesn't.

A sinusoid is perfectly smooth to my knowledge.


----------



## .404 (Apr 8, 2015)

Just joking. Haha. Black Sabbath made me do it.

P.S. lighten up Nitroman


----------



## Marshy (Apr 8, 2015)

.404 said:


> No it doesn't.
> 
> A sinusoid is perfectly smooth to my knowledge.


 Im not here to agrue semantics. If you consider displacement vs angle it is. When I wrote my first response to you I could not see your pictures and didnt realize your graphs were velocity vs angle. It all depends on your perspective.


----------



## .404 (Apr 8, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Im not here to agrue semantics.



Me neither some of my best friends are Jewish.


----------



## Hedgerow (Apr 8, 2015)

.404 said:


> Me neither some of my best friends are Jewish.


----------



## OnTheRoad (Apr 8, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Not just fingers.......fingers and bridges.
> 
> View attachment 417960
> 
> ...


Nice work, Randy. What 5 axis cnc mill do you use for those bridge/finger ports?


----------



## drf255 (Apr 9, 2015)

OnTheRoad said:


> Nice work, Randy. What 5 axis cnc mill do you use for those bridge/finger ports?


I know. They're fricken perfect looking. 

The pics of those make me want to return my grinder and just sent all my saws to Randy. 

Hence why he openly shares numbers. You can't really recreate.

Like Mozart giving you his music and you buying the same piano as him. You just ain't playing that concerto the same way.


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 9, 2015)

"Hear Hear, this man speaks the truth."


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I found some marks Niko........after it came outta the US cleaner.
> 
> Misshapen but.......I think it is a Mahle.
> 
> View attachment 417421



Looks that way - but something odd must have happened there....


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 9, 2015)

AR200 said:


> Is a Jonsered 630 the same saw?



NO!

The 630 is larger and heavier, and is based on the much older 162SE. It belongs to a different "family" of saws, even though the bore and stroke is the same.


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 9, 2015)

Tor R said:


> I only check the serial number, 1 is the year, the two next is the week.



That is true, up to and including 1996.

From 1997 to *about* (haven't found the exact cutoff week yet) week 18 1999 the full year will be on the tag in addition. After that the year code is two digit, and there is one additional extra digit (to make room for more than 9999 saws in a given week - I have never seen that actually happen though).

The 262xp was made at least up to 2005/2006, for some markets (Israel and Russia identified). The last one to be discontinued likely was the 262xph, that was a special for the Russian Siberia market.


----------



## Paragon Builder (Apr 9, 2015)

Thanks Saw troll, I always enjoy these tidbits of information you presented us with!


----------



## old-cat (Apr 9, 2015)

drf255 said:


> I know. They're fricken perfect looking.
> 
> The pics of those make me want to return my grinder and just sent all my saws to Randy.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I was thinking when I said you guys are over thinking. Randy does what he does because he WORKS so hard at perfection. TRIAL and ERROR!


----------



## drf255 (Apr 9, 2015)

There is no such thing as overthinking IMHO.

Randy comes off so plain and hands on, but he's a smart dude and understands more of the science of this than many believe. 

All thinking is good.


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 9, 2015)

old-cat said:


> This is exactly what I was thinking when I said you guys are over thinking. Randy does what he does because he WORKS so hard at perfection. TRIAL and ERROR!



Something more than just trial and error is needed, but it surely is part of it!


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 9, 2015)

Randy, what's the biggest batch of saws you've done at one time like this?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

OnTheRoad said:


> Nice work, Randy. What 5 axis cnc mill do you use for those bridge/finger ports?



LMAO........I just use my hand......and a H28 Foredom.....



blsnelling said:


> Randy, what's the biggest batch of saws you've done at one time like this?



This is a largest batch to date Brad. 

I did 6 MS261s awhile back......that was the largest before this one.


----------



## MarkEagleUSA (Apr 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> This is a largest batch to date Brad.


Just herd 'em together like cattle!


----------



## Fire8 (Apr 9, 2015)

A friend wanting to run the legend,Randy has the Legendary SB2 he has been fixing the choke so he could give you a better video on what everyone 262's will be like I have gave him permission to run the piss out of it


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

Fire8 said:


> A friend wanting to run the legend,Randy has the Legendary SB2 he has been fixing the choke so he could give you a better video on what everyone 262's will be like I have gave him permission to run the piss out of it



What does sb2 stand for ?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

Steven Bryan 2


----------



## Fire8 (Apr 9, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> What does sb2 stand for ?


Steven / bryanr2 that was his saw I talked him out of


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

I ran it against my 3750. 

My 3750 lost.


----------



## Termite (Apr 9, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Yes it does. It represents position of the piston vs time. When you increase the rod length the wave changes, the piston spends more time near TDC and BDC for a given change in crank angle.
> 
> A longer rod ratio produces a more uniform piston velocity throughout its stroke. Thus a long rod produces lower peak piston velocities/accelerations/jerk etc. Generally, intake flow stagnates at sonic velocity. And since intake velocity through the ports is relatively proportional to piston speed, intake flow benefits from reduced peak piston velocity.
> Engine design variables like stroke/bore ratios and rod ratios is an excercise in compromise. For low speed engines, a long rod is especially beneficial. It reduces peak piston velocities/accelerations and inertia loads on the rod and crank bearings. A long rod also minimises rod angulation and thrust load/friction losses at the piston skirt.


 And this is why a small block Chevy would wear out so fast. The rod length to stroke ratio on a 400Small Block was silly. The Rod/Stroke ratio on a 383 MoPar was outstanding.


----------



## Fire8 (Apr 9, 2015)

When the husq are done right it takes a perfect built saw to beat it
You win some and you lose some,most of the time it's the operator not the saw
And I'm not saying anything against you Randy, I've been there done that


----------



## like2surf (Apr 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Me too Chris.
> 
> I've completely destroyed a bunch of jugs.


That's okay. Tore up jugs can be fixed with silicone or saline!


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 9, 2015)

Ported 562 vs ported 262. Same log.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

like2surf said:


> That's okay. Tore up jugs can be fixed with silicone or saline!



Blue Goo?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

M&Rtree said:


> Ported 562 vs ported 262. Same log.



I've got a ported 562, 262, and a 3750 to run. 

We will have video.


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I've got a ported 562, 262, and a 3750 to run.
> 
> We will have video.



Randy you never disappoint! My three favorites.


----------



## jl4c (Apr 9, 2015)

View attachment 417953


Beautiful work, but I'm having trouble seeing where the locating pin rides such that the ring ends don't snag. Probably apparent in another view angle.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

Pretty quiet here today ??


----------



## drf255 (Apr 9, 2015)

jl4c said:


> View attachment 417953
> 
> 
> Beautiful work, but I'm having trouble seeing where the locating pin rides such that the ring ends don't snag. Probably apparent in another view angle.


I believe that the 262 has a single ring with the gap centered over the intake port. 

Makes it ideal for finger ports.


----------



## Jon1212 (Apr 9, 2015)

Discuss........


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

Jon1212 said:


> View attachment 418222
> 
> Discuss........


Lmao


----------



## Marshy (Apr 9, 2015)

drf255 said:


> I believe that the 262 has a single ring with the gap centered over the intake port.
> 
> Makes it ideal for finger ports.


 The ring end gap is never over a port.


----------



## Marshy (Apr 9, 2015)

Jon1212 said:


> View attachment 418222
> 
> Discuss........


Fact.  Might as well fling some poo while we're here.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

The mad scientist mm must be busy on reassembly ?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

jl4c said:


> View attachment 417953
> 
> 
> Beautiful work, but I'm having trouble seeing where the locating pin rides such that the ring ends don't snag. Probably apparent in another view angle.



Centered over the intake....



skippysphins said:


> The mad scientist mm must be busy on reassembly ?



Yep. Almost done with em.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

Hey Roger !!!!!!

Here's that old rough looking saw you sent us.


----------



## Jon1212 (Apr 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Centered over the intake....
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Almost done with em.



Randy,

Are you taking "old customers"?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

Compression......

This one is Steven's old hag of a saw.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

Jon1212 said:


> Randy,
> 
> Are you taking "old customers"?



Yep. 

I work in my "regular" customers. 

You need to have something screwed up right well?


----------



## morewood (Apr 9, 2015)

Also, is that "old" as in up in years or "old" as in prior customers. Just wondering out loud.....sorta.

Shea


----------



## old-cat (Apr 9, 2015)

Ok MasterMind Randy, I've got a question. Can you make a STIHL 036 run the same as those Magik 262xp things?


----------



## morewood (Apr 9, 2015)

What I should say is that my buddy's soon to be ported 372 that Terry has needs to be less than my 440 MAGNUM!! Yes, MAGNUM!!!! With all the extra bananas, sewer port bridge over the river Kwai treatments.

Shea


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

I can.


----------



## Jon1212 (Apr 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Yep.
> 
> I work in my "regular" customers.
> 
> You need to have something screwed up right well?



Mayhaps. 

I know of a couple of fellas that are sending you some 262's, and I've got this 261 that one of the fellas just put a fresh Meteor flat top in, that I thought might ride along with 'em.


----------



## Jon1212 (Apr 9, 2015)

morewood said:


> Also, is that "old" as in up in years or "old" as in prior customers. Just wondering out loud.....sorta.
> 
> Shea



Umm, either or both?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

Jon1212 said:


> Mayhaps.
> 
> I know of a couple of fellas that are sending you some 262's, and I've got this 261 that one of the fellas just put a fresh Meteor flat top in, that I thought might ride along with 'em.



Bring it on old buddy.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

morewood said:


> What I should say is that my buddy's soon to be ported 372 that Terry has needs to be less than my 440 MAGNUM!! Yes, MAGNUM!!!! With all the extra bananas, sewer port bridge over the river Kwai treatments.
> 
> Shea



Take your meds Mr Awesome.


----------



## morewood (Apr 9, 2015)

Dinner is finally ready, gotta take the meds with a meal. Have a great evening fellas.

Shea


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

morewood said:


> Dinner is finally ready, gotta take the meds with a meal. Have a great evening fellas.
> 
> Shea




REPPED !!!!!!


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Apr 9, 2015)

Potato


----------



## redfin (Apr 9, 2015)

Not sure how you do all that grinder work at one time Randy. My hands cramp just working on one jug. They do look very nice. 

Any chance one of these is going to be going to Mr Wiggs place in september ?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Potato



So it's like that is it? 

You're gonna roll up in my thread with that vile and disgusting statement?


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

redfin said:


> Not sure how you do all that grinder work at one time Randy. My hands cramp just working on one jug. They do look very nice.
> 
> Any chance one of these is going to be going to Mr Wiggs place in september ?


I might bring one to the pa gtg


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

redfin said:


> Not sure how you do all that grinder work at one time Randy. My hands cramp just working on one jug. They do look very nice.
> 
> Any chance one of these is going to be going to Mr Wiggs place in september ?



I'll prolly have one with me.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 9, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Potato


tater tot


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm more of a baked tater sort of feller myself.


----------



## morewood (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm back, sorta. Tater Tots need to be baked crispy then topped with cheddar cheese and REAL bacon!! Chili doesn't hurt either. Good night, sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite.....Who! Who! I love you!!

Shea


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Apr 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> So it's like that is it?
> 
> You're gonna roll up in my thread with that vile and disgusting statement?


Hey Zeus


----------



## redfin (Apr 9, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> I might bring one to the pa gtg



Pretty please with tater tots and cheese and bacon on top?


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

redfin said:


> Pretty please with tater tots and cheese and bacon on top?


Np


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Apr 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'm more of a baked tater sort of feller myself.


Twice baked


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Hey Zeus





Adirondackstihl said:


> Twice baked



Repped.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

Well we had a small setback. 

I ordered three 262XP pistons.......and they sent me Husky 55 pistons.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Well we had a small setback.
> 
> I ordered three 262XP pistons.......and they sent me Husky 55 pistons.


Who's are setback buddy ?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

Two of mine, and Marc's


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Two of mine, and Marc's


I would have waited I own more than one saw lol


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

Do you have any pics of my gem yet ?


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 9, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> I might bring one to the pa gtg


You damn straight better. We'll make ya' run home and get it if you don't bring it along. I saw that CG and got a... well you know


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> I would have waited I own more than one saw lol



Your saw didn't need a piston.......it was in really good condition. 



skippysphins said:


> Do you have any pics of my gem yet ?



No, after we got em all back together we locked the door and hauled ass.


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 9, 2015)

More sushi? Or were you hearin' voices? LOL


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

I would rather see a video anyway


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm tired my friends. 

I think I'll watch TV and crash early.....


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

Always tomorrow my friend


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 9, 2015)

Go rest


----------



## Jon1212 (Apr 10, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Twice baked



I've gotten "baked" way more than twice............


Just sayin', and stuff.


----------



## morewood (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'm tired my friends.
> 
> I think I'll watch TV and crash early.....




Uh, 10:30 ain't early to crash in my book. But then again I get up before 5 every morning. Have a beautiful and wet Friday big fella.

Shea


----------



## Jimmy in NC (Apr 10, 2015)

From the looks of it "The plateau" is getting rocked with a squal line right now.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Compression......
> 
> This one is Steven's old hag of a saw.
> 
> View attachment 418230


What are you expecting after ring breaking?

That small amount off the squish band made a huge difference, huh?


----------



## drf255 (Apr 10, 2015)

Randy, 

3 more questions. 

Did you advance the ignition timing, if so, how much?

Are you base gasket delete with 040 from the SB and only 026 from the base!

What did final squish come out at?


----------



## Paragon Builder (Apr 10, 2015)

drf255 said:


> What are you expecting after ring breaking?
> 
> That small amount off the squish band made a huge difference, huh?


Let's hope the rings don't break. Lol!


----------



## David Young (Apr 10, 2015)

great thread looking forward to the tricks that they like.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Jimmy in NC said:


> From the looks of it "The plateau" is getting rocked with a squal line right now.



I slept thru it......



drf255 said:


> What are you expecting after ring breaking?
> 
> That small amount off the squish band made a huge difference, huh?



It will end up about 215. I use a little oil to help seal, and get a better idea of final compression. 



drf255 said:


> Randy,
> 
> 3 more questions.
> 
> ...



No ignition advance. I will test that next though. If it doesn't make much difference I'll leave it stock. 

Yes, .040 from the squish, no base gasket, and .026 from the base. 



David Young said:


> great thread looking forward to the tricks that they like.



What tricks? I'm done with em.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 10, 2015)

Bring on the videos !! Good morning buddy !


----------



## David Young (Apr 10, 2015)

oh just remember some tips you had for building 346's I thought that's what you were referring to. great thread randy thank you for sharing. I wonder how close these saws would be in cut time. they should all be identical right?


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 10, 2015)

David Young said:


> oh just remember some tips you had for building 346's I thought that's what you were referring to. great thread randy thank you for sharing. I wonder how close these saws would be in cut time. they should all be identical right?


You can do 20 saws the same time the same numbers and always have one just a little bit better than the rest. That's my experience anyways. You can also have a lame duck too. Just the human element at work.


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 10, 2015)

+1. Machines just don't work that way. There are always differences.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Yep. Always. 

To be honest, I've tested that too. 9 out of 10 times the coils are where those differences are at.


----------



## David Young (Apr 10, 2015)

I know your porting is fairly consistent and I am sure the variations happen. I would have guessed the carbs made the difference.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Coils are very inconsistent. Differences in the timing can really affect performance.


----------



## David Young (Apr 10, 2015)

ok I have very few tips you can learn from Randy but here are a couple.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)




----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

Ride it like you stole it. I stole this pic...


----------



## Paragon Builder (Apr 10, 2015)

Duane(Pa) said:


> View attachment 418372
> Ride it like you stole it. I stole this pic...


I didn't know randy built bikes too....


----------



## David Young (Apr 10, 2015)

Paragon Builder said:


> I didn't know randy built bikes too....


no worries live and learn.....

he also enjoys pictures of fat chicks in bikinis and midget cover in jello.


----------



## morewood (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


>



I'm going to make a t-shirt with that on it. Might wear it too my son's wrestling tourney tomorrow morning if I can get it done. Stay dry on the cattle ranch homie!!

Shea


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

We have a 359, 3750, 562, and a 262.......

After supper we're gonna go to the woods with them.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> We have a 359, 3750, 562, and a 262.......
> 
> After supper we're gonna go to the woods with them.


I can not wait!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> I can not wait!!!



Sure you can.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Sure you can.


Only because I have too!


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 10, 2015)

361 would be nice Randy to throw in the mix.


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Apr 10, 2015)




----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Supper is over....I'm going to the woods.


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 10, 2015)

I'm like a dog drooling over a bone waiting!


----------



## Trx250r180 (Apr 10, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> [/Q
> 
> UOTE]
> 
> ...




Those needs some bacon ,look good though .


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

How did you decide which 262 to take to the woods? Same question about the chains...

You lucky bastard, only saying because I realllllly envy you n stuff. My hands ache just watching


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

The 562 won.


----------



## Paragon Builder (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> The 562 won.


Videos?


----------



## Tor R (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> The 562 won.


and, who become number 2 and 3?
Without video the result doesnt count


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

They are nuts out of the box, still surprises me a little.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> The 562 won.


The first to break down?


----------



## Fire8 (Apr 10, 2015)

That doesn't surprise me


----------



## morewood (Apr 10, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Those needs some bacon ,look good though .


 and CHEESE!! It's the glue that makes it all soooooo good!

Shea

PS-My son won't call it a 'burger' if it doesn't have bacon and cheese on it. Also, it's not a 'Coke', it's a 'cold Coca-Cola'. The boy is figuring out the good things. 



PSS-I've run a high strung 562, they get right with it. Not a big shocker to me.


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 10, 2015)

My heart was telling me it would but my mind was saying no. 562 muffler modded vs my 262 muffler modded was 5 seconds faster in a 28 inch log. Both being quicker than any of my other 60cc saws though.


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

I have to ask. All saws fresh? I really feel that saws break in to higher power levels after "x" tanks of fuel. I have hope for the Old School SAW


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 10, 2015)

Polished intake and exhaust, 1mm base gasket 262 vs muffler modded 2260.


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> The 562 won.


How can you do that?! You just burst all these guys bubbles. They probably won't sleep tonight, lol  Nice work all around, Randy.


----------



## PA Dan (Apr 10, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


>


My wifes favorite way to make potatoes! Yum!


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Sorry about bailing........a customer showed up to pick up a saw.


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

Bump for a good seller


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Sorry about bailing........a customer showed up to pick up a saw.


Who was it, Steven? Wait, he's four customers, or forty customers...


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Uploading videos.....

It wasn't really a fair race. The chain on the 262 was crap... The chain on the 562 was a square ground chain. 

We didn't want to be in the woods swapping bars a chain, so Jon just put on what was handy.


----------



## Fire8 (Apr 10, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> How can you do that?! You just burst all these guys bubbles. They probably won't sleep tonight, lol  Nice work all around, Randy.


Not my bubble I like the looks of the old husq better,the new look just plane SUCKS


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

We win!!! 562 had nitrous


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Duane(Pa) said:


> Bump for a good seller



Repped.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Fire8 said:


> Not my bubble I like the looks of the old husq better,the new look just plane SUCKS



If we can make the 262XP keep up with a ported 562XP, we have really done something. 

Like you.......I'd give up a few seconds in cut speed to have a cooler saw.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Apr 10, 2015)

Fire8 said:


> Not my bubble I like the looks of the old husq better,the new look just plane SUCKS


It ain't no fashion show in the bush


----------



## rattler362 (Apr 10, 2015)

Dident bust my bubble the 262 is still the cat's meow in my book


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

3 minutes remaining.


----------



## boxygen (Apr 10, 2015)

I bet the 562 felt better in the arthritic hands too while it kicked the 262's ass.  Where is Steven? .


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

"Paging Chadihman to the produce section, cleanup in isle 7; spilled bananas all over the place..."


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

If the 562 would have had this crappy chain......it would have lost. 

Jon messed this one up........that's my story......and I'm sticking to it.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> If the 562 would have had this crappy chain......it would have lost.
> 
> Jon messed this one up........that's my story......and I'm sticking to it.



Any other time the 562 would've broked


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

20 minutes remaining.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> Any other time the 562 would've broked



I get huge gains from the 562....

No kidding.


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> If the 562 would have had this crappy chain......it would have lost.
> 
> Jon messed this one up........that's my story......and I'm sticking to it.



That'd be a good chain for the 3120


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I get huge gains from the 562....
> 
> No kidding.


Doesn't mean we like them [emoji23]


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Duane(Pa) said:


> That'd be a good chain for the 3120



lol

No ****.

It seems dull........like he took the rakers down to make it cut.

He does some damn good chain sometimes too though. It is what it is I reckon.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 10, 2015)

Well Randy they all done. Thank you for this thread . pics and video's. I think I speak for everyone its appreciated all the time and the knowledge . are sending me some pics of my gem buddy.
Ty
Chris


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

This saw is hauling ass.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> Well Randy they all done. Thank you for this thread . pics and video's. I think I speak for everyone its appreciated all the time and the knowledge . are sending me some pics of my gem buddy.
> Ty
> Chris



I'm still waiting on pistons for three of them.....pics of yours? 

Sure buddy, I can do that.


----------



## boxygen (Apr 10, 2015)

I wouldn't get caught dead with either of them or with a 346xp and 394xp in my garage. Nope. I showed CAD who's boss.


----------



## Fire8 (Apr 10, 2015)

I have had 3-4sec three cut cookie cutters and turn it off, I needed a lt.wt.firewood saw
And my choice is the 262 had a new 550 to ugly gave to one of my sons,I don't need a 562 aerodynamic looking saw it not that dam fast to be shape like that


----------



## KenJax Tree (Apr 10, 2015)

That 562 sounds better in cut too


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'm still waiting on pistons for three of them.....pics of yours?
> 
> Sure buddy, I can do that.


Pm is fine randy if you have time k


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

These dual spikes ain't quite right Chris......all I had though.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> That 562 sounds better in cut too



It is pulling a lot less chain too.


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 10, 2015)

I got 12.5 seconds 262 and 12.6 562. 18 vs 20 bars?


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 10, 2015)

Duane(Pa) said:


> Who was it, Steven? Wait, he's four customers, or forty customers...



I'm in California at a business conference.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Here's the saw that is prolly the fastest. I was shocked really. It's got the crappy Zama EL42 carb (modified of course) and the crappy Chinese 359 jug too. 

It rips though.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

M&Rtree said:


> I got 12.5 seconds 262 and 12.6 562. 18 vs 20 bars?



16" on the 562......20" on the 262. 

Check the time on that 359 please. 

My grandson got away with my stopwatch.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> I'm in California at a business conference.



That's no excuse.


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> I'm in California at a business conference.


Chopping down Palm trees?


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 10, 2015)

Looked around 12.0 Randy


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

I got twelve even with my phone for the 359


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 10, 2015)

boxygen said:


> I bet the 562 felt better in the arthritic hands too while it kicked the 262's ass.  Where is Steven? .



Randy already said the chain wasn't the same.


----------



## boxygen (Apr 10, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> I'm in California at a business conference.


Steven, sorry you had to hear the news this way. I'm sure it would have been easier if you were at home surrounded by your loved ones. 

Whatcha learning in Cali? DONT WASTE WATER!


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

This is far from settled......


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Looks like the 359 is the winner. This time, with these chains, in this chunk. 

I'd still rather have the 262. 

The Poulan 3750 video is uploading........


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

But it lost bad......


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

Kentucky Derby anyone?


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 10, 2015)

Any one have a outer dawgs for a 262 pm me please


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> This saw is hauling ass.



Looked difficult to start.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Duane(Pa) said:


> This is far from settled......



You are correct. 

We're gonna have to take the time to swap chain so they all get a fair representation.


----------



## boxygen (Apr 10, 2015)

I'm getting a hankering to run some saws tomorrow. Might even be above freezing too.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> Looked difficult to start.



And it's ugly as hell. 

Plus it bogs a little after idling. 

Crappy A/T Husky.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

What about that damn 359?


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> You are correct.
> 
> We're gonna have to take the time to swap chain so they all get a fair representation.


I just have to say plus one with skippy. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Cool beans man!


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 10, 2015)

359 looked to have the smoothest chain. Was it a 18 or 20?


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> What about that damn 359?


Steven, is it OK for me to like this post?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

M&Rtree said:


> 359 looked to have the smoothest chain. Was it a 18 or 20?



18".......

You're right about the chain.


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> What about that damn 359?


One of, if not the strongest 60cc saws I've ever built as a 359.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Someone had to lose. lol


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 10, 2015)

Glad the 262 won. Now I can go on and on about how its the greatest ever made!


----------



## old-cat (Apr 10, 2015)

M&Rtree said:


> Glad the 262 won. Now I can go on and on about how its the greatest ever made!


I think its cousin is way better! 036 STIHL.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 10, 2015)

old-cat said:


> I think its cousin is way better! 036 STIHL.


You're the MustangMike of 036s aren't you? 






All joking aside it would be interesting to see it in the mix.


----------



## old-cat (Apr 10, 2015)

cuttinties said:


> You're the MustangMike of 036s aren't you?


Yep'r


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

I got a shipment of aftermarket top ends to look over, and one of them is a MS360/036 top end. 

Lynn, would you be interested in trying it out, and reporting on it's durability? 

The casting and beveling is some of the best I've seen.


----------



## sunfish (Apr 10, 2015)

I have a 262xp, 562xp, 359 & 357xp. *357xp is The Keeper... *


----------



## PA Dan (Apr 10, 2015)

old-cat said:


> I think its cousin is way better! 036 STIHL.


This thread has me a little excited! I have a 262xp that I rebuilt from the ground up and its almost finished! Its probably heading to Tennessee after watching this thread. I also have an 036 Pro on the bench getting built. Now which one would be better ported? Im sure someone is going to say both!


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 10, 2015)

Both. 

Oh, your 044 is up.


----------



## old-cat (Apr 10, 2015)

PA Dan said:


> This thread has me a little excited! I have a 262xp that I rebuilt from the ground up and its almost finished! Its probably heading to Tennessee after watching this thread. I also have an 036 Pro on the bench getting built. Now which one would be better ported? Im sure someone is going to say both!


I think the STIHL is better quality built


----------



## PA Dan (Apr 10, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Both.
> 
> Oh, your 044 is up.


I knew someone would say it! Awesome on the 044 and yes it has the HD2 and dp muffler![emoji6]


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 11, 2015)

Duane(Pa) said:


> Chopping down Palm trees?



Nope


Duane(Pa) said:


> Steven, is it OK for me to like this post?


I love a 359. It's on my short list for saws I regret selling. The 562 is not on that list.


----------



## drf255 (Apr 11, 2015)

Is a 359 a quad port motor?

Both the 262 and 562 were pretty bad ass afaic.


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 11, 2015)

Owned 10 036's over the years. Not a fan and way slower stock than a 357,262 or 562.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

drf255 said:


> Is a 359 a quad port motor?
> 
> Both the 262 and 562 were pretty bad ass afaic.



It is. But it has a terrible jug on it from the factory. 

The amount of work that goes into making that saw really run is considerable. Even the main fuel nozzle is modified.


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 11, 2015)

Your finger ports are pure and simple art work. That must take a huge amount of extra time too?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

Duane(Pa) said:


> Your finger ports are pure and simple art work. That must take a huge amount of extra time too?



Not really. I've gained enough experience with the burr that they happen pretty quickly. The first few I cut though......I was nervous, and slow. After awhile I just cut the hell out of em.


----------



## redfin (Apr 11, 2015)

Randy, I'm trying to word my question to make sense to you but when you cut the fingers, do you cut through the plating the length of the finger, then go back deeper? Or do you start at one end and finish at the other?

Kapeesh?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

I make several cuts, going deeper each time.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

Hi , im new here and to chainsaws as well

Can anyone tell me how these saws stack up against my 362c with a 20" blade ?

Thanks in advance


----------



## redfin (Apr 11, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I make several cuts, going deeper each time.



Thanks.


----------



## big t double (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Hi , im new here and to chainsaws as well
> 
> Can anyone tell me how these saws stack up against my 362c with a 20" blade ?
> 
> Thanks in advance


If your 362 has a dp muff and an hd2 filter it should be about the best setup ever witnessed by human kind. plus it cures AIDS....so win win.


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Hi , im new here and to chainsaws as well
> 
> Can anyone tell me how these saws stack up against my 362c with a 20" blade ?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 Do you have the switchblade?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

Duane(Pa) said:


> Do you have the switchblade?



Im not sure what a switchblade is , the crew of guys that hired me that cut trees down all make fun of me because im a chubby rapper with a jerry curl and i drink 40s on my front porch .. and since im not a very good cutter they make me feed that thing that makes the limbs from the trees into sawdust , should i trade my saw in on a husqvarna ? .. are they faster than stihls ?

Thanks again


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

big t double said:


> If your 362 has a dp muff and an hd2 filter it should be about the best setup ever witnessed by human kind. plus it cures AIDS....so win win.



I got into trouble with the boss last week because he sent me to mix gas.

So i filled up the gas cans with gas and put a spoon in it and started to mix it and when i went back all the saws burnt up because he said i didnt mix it right.

So i showed him the spoon i mixed it with and he told me i was an idiot ... what did i do wrong ?


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 11, 2015)




----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 11, 2015)

Pa guys are going to have some serious fun at Chuck's. Most of the saws mentioned here are going to be on the scene.


----------



## big t double (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> ... what did i do wrong ?


im guessing you didn't drink enough 8-ball.


----------



## sunfish (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> So i showed him the spoon i mixed it with and he told me i was an idiot ... what did i do wrong ?


You have to drink more and try to balance while standing sideways...


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

I loled

And stuff


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

big t double said:


> im guessing you didn't drink enough 8-ball.



They are colt-45s

My daddy told me anybody can do it sober.

You gotta be good to do it drunk.

Thanks for your help guys , im goin to mix gas and im gonna try a bigger spoon..i dont wanna get yelled at again.

Ill check back next weekend and let you guys know , i appreciate all the advice and help.


----------



## Fire8 (Apr 11, 2015)

Randy let's see the 562 and the 262 one cut with the same bar and chain,I would say the 562 will win but it would be real close


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

big t double said:


> If your 362 has a dp muff and an hd2 filter it should be about the best setup ever witnessed by human kind. plus it cures AIDS....so win win.



Do you buy those at a stihl dealer ? , do they enhance performance ?

Excuse my ignorance..im new to this stuff

But thanks for your help


----------



## sunfish (Apr 11, 2015)

I like the 562 A Lot, might need to send the 262 to Randy? That way it might can cut as fast an stuff...


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

Ok , ill let you pilgrims get on with your thread here , thanks for the help 

"A saw will only kill a tree if its from tennessee"

( told you guys i was a good rapper )


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Ok , ill let you pilgrims get on with your thread here , thanks for the help
> 
> "A saw will only kill a tree if its from tennessee"
> 
> ( told you guys i was a good rapper )



Repped.


----------



## PA Dan (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Ok , ill let you pilgrims get on with your thread here , thanks for the help
> 
> "A saw will only kill a tree if its from tennessee"
> 
> ( told you guys i was a good rapper )


So my saws can only kill trees in Tennessee? Your starting to confuse me!


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

If the tree is from Tennessee. 

Keep up Dan.


----------



## mdavlee (Apr 11, 2015)

redfin said:


> Randy, I'm trying to word my question to make sense to you but when you cut the fingers, do you cut through the plating the length of the finger, then go back deeper? Or do you start at one end and finish at the other?
> 
> Kapeesh?


I take a cut off wheel or stone similar and cut the top in. Then different burrs to get the rest of it in. The straight wheel keeps the top flat.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

PA Dan said:


> So my saws can only kill trees in Tennessee? Your starting to confuse me!



I dont wanna get any of the cowboys all stirred up here dan.

Ill rap for you guys later.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> I take a cut off wheel or stone similar and cut the top in. Then different burrs to get the rest of it in. The straight wheel keeps the top flat.



You really don't want the top to be flat though. 

If you cut the finger in with an AlumaHog burr, and stay down a few .001s you can finish the top with a very small burr in the right angle, and make a nice radius in the back. 

These are the tools and burrs I use on fingers.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> You really don't want the top to be flat though.
> 
> If you cut the finger in with an AlumaHog burr, and stay down a few .001s you can finish the top with a very small burr in the right angle, and make a nice radius in the back.
> 
> ...



Damn randy , my dentist used those same tools when he put the gold on muh teef..

Cool man.


----------



## mdavlee (Apr 11, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> You really don't want the top to be flat though.
> 
> If you cut the finger in with an AlumaHog burr, and stay down a few .001s you can finish the top with a very small burr in the right angle, and make a nice radius in the back.
> 
> ...


It usually doesn't end up totally flat by the time I get done. I have tried angled more and less on 288s. Seems the flatter ones were snappier.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

Pics of dem gold teefs?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Pics of dem gold teefs?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

Oh man. Very nice. 

You are much older than I imagined.


----------



## big t double (Apr 11, 2015)

I imagine Ryan to look more like Paul Wall.


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> View attachment 418557


Photo and mug shot in the avatar don't match.... I don't know who I know as ryan anymore.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 11, 2015)

Where on the cylinder is the manufacturer stamps which side clutch side or starter side?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> Photo and mug shot in the avatar don't match.... I don't know who I know as ryan anymore.



I have no clue either.


----------



## PA Dan (Apr 11, 2015)

I saw this guy the other night getting chips thrown in his face but can't see the teeth. Who knows?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

PA Dan said:


> I saw this guy the other night getting chips thrown in his face but can't see the teeth. Who knows?



Whos the cracker ?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

big t double said:


> I imagine Ryan to look more like Paul Wall.
> View attachment 418559



Just so you know ted..since this is what you sound like on my voicemail i made this the contact photo for when you call ...


----------



## PA Dan (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Whos the cracker ?


Some local tree guy thats in love with $600 42cc saws![emoji12]


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Just so you know ted..since this is what you sound like on my voicemail i made this the contact photo for when you call ...
> View attachment 418569


To much info here ! Lol


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> To much info here ! Lol



He deserves it for tryin to disguise his voice and sayin he found my number on craigslist for a "good time" listing..were even now.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> He deserves for for tryin to disguise his voice and sayin he found my number on craigslist for a "good time" listing..were even now.


That's too funny


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

Carry on boys..off topic long enough.


----------



## big t double (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Just so you know ted..since this is what you sound like on my voicemail i made this the contact photo for when you call ...
> View attachment 418569


can you make that my little picture on the left side?


----------



## big t double (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Whos the cracker ?


backstreet boy?


----------



## PA Dan (Apr 11, 2015)

big t double said:


> backstreet boy?


Thats where I seen him before!


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)




----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

big t double said:


> backstreet boy?



Ted i have a picture of myself that id like to share with you..im on the right.


----------



## maulhead (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Hi , im new here and to chainsaws as well
> 
> Can anyone tell me how these saws stack up against my 362c with a 20" blade ?
> 
> Thanks in advance



I know your just joking around, but I wood like to sea a Mastermind 362c in the mix, just to sea how it stacked up to the 60cc Husky's in this video,,, even if it got a spanking, i'd like to sea how it did.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

maulhead said:


> I know your just joking around, but I wood like to sea a Mastermind 362c in the mix, just to sea how it stacked up to the 60cc Husky's in this video,,, even if it got a spanking, i'd like to sea how it did.



What if someone else ported it..i have a saw or two...i have a hidden treasure down the street now that has a few porting tools.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

PA Mafia?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> PA Mafia?



Skull hill saw shop

Coming fall 2015 .

I dont have any masterminded saws


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

maulhead said:


> I know your just joking around, but I wood like to sea a Mastermind 362c in the mix, just to sea how it stacked up to the 60cc Husky's in this video,,, even if it got a spanking, i'd like to sea how it did.



I ain't got a 60cc Stihl at the moment. I'd have liked to seen a MS361 in there......


----------



## maulhead (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> What if someone else ported it..i have a saw or two...i have a hidden treasure down the street now that has a few porting tools.



that would be fine if someone else ported it, I just figured Randy would not have a 362c ported by someone else in his collection. 

It would be nice to see a 362c in the mix just for comparison, to see how it measured up. 


I'm sure I will get flamed for saying this, but my 362c is probably my favorite saw, that I own.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Skull hill saw shop
> 
> Coming fall 2015 .
> 
> *I dont have any masterminded saws*



Yet. You too will be assimilated.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

maulhead said:


> that would be fine if someone else ported it, I just figured Randy would not have a 362c ported by someone else in his collection.
> 
> It would be nice to see a 362c in the mix just for comparison, to see how it measured up.
> 
> ...



I've got a 346XP ported by Wiggs. It's a running SOB. 

Lots of guys build great running saws......


----------



## maulhead (Apr 11, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I ain't got a 60cc Stihl at the moment. I'd have liked to seen a MS361 in there......



Oh well, maybe next time,,, damn the Basturd that got your last 362c


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

maulhead said:


> that would be fine if someone else ported it, I just figured Randy would not have a 362c ported by someone else in his collection.
> 
> It would be nice to see a 362c in the mix just for comparison, to see how it measured up.
> 
> ...



Im not saying this to get mustangmikes back legs flyin

A 362c is a sweet firewood saw..but its not as fast as the other saws listed here...bummer too because i love the filtration set up...id like it a little easier to flip around too.


----------



## maulhead (Apr 11, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I've got a 346XP ported by Wiggs. It's a running SOB.
> 
> Lots of guys build great running saws......



I just dont know a lot of guys... I dont get out much.



edit, that sounds kind of bad...


----------



## big t double (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> View attachment 418582
> 
> 
> Ted i have a picture of myself that id like to share with you..im on the right.


jesus...it looks like you ate a backstreet boy and he got lodged in your neck. good god...I bet if you hit me in the face my whole head would fall off. I better start doing pushups.


----------



## maulhead (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Im not saying this to get mustangmikes back legs flyin
> 
> A 362c is a sweet firewood saw..but its not as fast as the other saws listed here...bummer too because i love the filtration set up...id like it a little easier to flip around too.



I dont have 1/2 the saw experience as most hear do, I have never ran any of the Husky's in that video. With the saws I have, I just like using my 362c the best is all.


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Im not saying this to get mustangmikes back legs flyin
> 
> A 362c is a sweet firewood saw..but its not as fast as the other saws listed here...bummer too because i love the filtration set up...id like it a little easier to flip around too.



The MS362 also is heavy and ungainly for a 60cc saw. It does what it is designed for, but not as grazefully as some other 60cc saws.


----------



## .404 (Apr 11, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Can anyone tell me how these saws stack up against my 362c with a 20" ?



Yes, you'll need only two of those to stack up against the Stihl.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

.404 said:


> Yes, you'll need only two of those to stack up against the Stihl.



To make them the same size ?


----------



## drf255 (Apr 11, 2015)

Maybe back on topic (lost track of topic, but lovin that gold grille)

Randy,

Where'd you find that elongated diamond burr?

What do you use to break through the plating the first time? I find it tough and easy to lose control with carbide.


----------



## Deets066 (Apr 11, 2015)

I believe it's from cc speacialty, alumahog


----------



## drf255 (Apr 11, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> I believe it's from cc speacialty, alumahog


No. I meant the fine one. Looks like a diamond burr.


----------



## cuttinties (Apr 11, 2015)

drf255 said:


> No. I meant the fine one. Looks like a diamond burr.


You can have cc custom make bits in different lengths and cutter/diamond varieties.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 11, 2015)

I get a big set of crappy diamond burrs from ebay sellers. Buy several and throw most of them away. 

I use the Alumihog burrs to cut thru the plating. I normally use at least 1 a day, and sometimes I toss two.


----------



## kz1000 (Apr 11, 2015)

That looks like a prison woods port to me.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 11, 2015)

big t double said:


> jesus...it looks like you ate a backstreet boy and he got lodged in your neck. good god...I bet if you hit me in the face my whole head would fall off. I better start doing pushups.



Since i couldnt give you the finger in person for callin me a backstreet boy ted that was the best i could do.


----------



## MustangMike (Apr 12, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> The MS362 also is heavy and ungainly for a 60cc saw. It does what it is designed for, but not as grazefully as some other 60cc saws.




Troll, if you think the 562 handles better than say so, but IT IS NOT LIGHTER THAN A 362 C. Two members have posted dry powerhead wt of 562s at over 13 lbs. What is the source of your mis-information??? This nonsense has been going on for over a year!

Full disclosure: I don't have time in Tax Season to read 20 pages of a thread in a day, so if I've missed any relevant posts I apologize!


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 12, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Troll, if you think the 562 handles better than say so, but IT IS NOT LIGHTER THAN A 362 C. Two members have posted dry powerhead wt of 562s at over 13 lbs. What is the source of your mis-information??? This nonsense has been going on for over a year!
> 
> Full disclosure: I don't have time in Tax Season to read 20 pages of a thread in a day, so if I've missed any relevant posts I apologize!



Well. I have never seen a weight result og the MS362 being below 13 lbs, and the official German ones are 13.2, while the result is 12.8 for the 562xp from that sourse and most others.
That isn't the main point though - the totally different ways the saws are designed is much more important, and the result is that the 362 is pretty redundant.


----------



## big t double (Apr 12, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Since i couldnt give you the finger in person for callin me a backstreet boy ted that was the best i could do.


Well calling you a backstreet boy is hilarious...because I'm hilarious. But also knowing that you could pound me into the dirt makes it not that hilarious any more.


----------



## MustangMike (Apr 12, 2015)

Last I looked even the Husky web site listed it at 13.2, and I have seen 362 C's at 13 flat on a scale (and a bit more with AM parts). For all practical purposes, the two powerheads weight the same.


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 12, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Last I looked even the Husky web site listed it at 13.2, and I have seen 362 C's at 13 flat on a scale (and a bit more with AM parts). For all practical purposes, the two powerheads weight the same.



It just isn't true - just forget it. The main differense isn't the weight anyway, it is the clumcy handling design if the MS362 + the slow trigger response, that makes it totally redundant in this setting.


----------



## KG441c (Apr 12, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Last I looked even the Husky web site listed it at 13.2, and I have seen 362 C's at 13 flat on a scale (and a bit more with AM parts). For all practical purposes, the two powerheads weight the same.


Ported mine was 12.8. No way around it


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 12, 2015)

Back on topic.
262 20" bar weird chain 12.5 seconds
359 18" bar super smooth chain 12.0 seconds
562 16" bar 12.6 seconds
3750 well just was out classed.


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 12, 2015)

M&Rtree said:


> Back on topic.
> 262 20" bar weird chain 12.5 seconds
> 359 18" bar super smooth chain 12.0 seconds
> 562 16" bar 12.6 seconds
> 3750 well just was out classed.




The comparison really is pointless, as long as the *same* cutting attachment isn't used on all the saws.


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 12, 2015)

KG441c said:


> Ported mine was 12.8. No way around it




That fits with a "zillon" other weighting results.


----------



## MustangMike (Apr 12, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> That fits with a "zillon" other weighting results.



He is talking about his ported 362 C.


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 12, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> The comparison really is pointless, as long as the *same* cutting attachment isn't used on all the saws.


I believe everyone is on the same page. 
Randy even stated that.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 12, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> The comparison really is pointless, as long as the *same* cutting attachment isn't used on all the saws.



The 562 would have lost really bad then.


----------



## MustangMike (Apr 12, 2015)

Actually, compared to a 361, likely almost all the other 60 cc saws seem like "bricks"!


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 12, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> He is talking about his ported 362 C.



Then it doesn't fit with any other results I have seen.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 12, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Actually, compared to a 361, likely almost all the other 60 cc saws seem like "bricks"!



Wrong answer...guess again.


----------



## KG441c (Apr 12, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Wrong answer...guess again.


262xp 2260


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 12, 2015)

KG441c said:


> 262xp 2260



Touche'..as well as the 357xp , 359 , 555..


----------



## KG441c (Apr 12, 2015)

Which is faster 357 359


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 12, 2015)

KG441c said:


> Which is faster 357 359



Stock ?..a 357..im mad at myself for sellin mine 

Fellers on here say they make a ported 359 purdy darn strong keith.


----------



## sunfish (Apr 12, 2015)

KG441c said:


> Which is faster 357 359


357xp is faster, stock or ported.


----------



## sunfish (Apr 12, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Actually, compared to a 361, likely almost all the other 60 cc saws seem like "bricks"!


Have to disagree with ya there bro...


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 12, 2015)

On a tablet 2000 miles from home...... so the 262xp with a less than desirable chain, beat a 562 with square ground chain? Woo woot!


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 12, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Actually, compared to a 361, likely almost all the other 60 cc saws seem like "bricks"!



The MS361 handles quite well, despite the inboard clutch


sunfish said:


> Have to disagree with ya there bro...



I agree, and the 560xp definately handles better than the 361 - but the 361 still handles well for a saw with an inboard clutch.


----------



## deye223 (Apr 12, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Here's some pics of what Jon has been doing.
> 
> First he heats one side so it's hot enough to just drop the bearing in the pocket.
> 
> ...





Mastermind said:


> Last pic of the day.....
> 
> View attachment 417505





Mastermind said:


> Here's some pics of what Jon has been doing.
> 
> First he heats one side so it's hot enough to just drop the bearing in the pocket.
> 
> ...



now that's slick



Mastermind said:


> Last pic of the day.....
> 
> View attachment 417505



looks like someone is thinking about getting a mill


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 12, 2015)

What I've gathered over the years from this forum and personal use. Someone correct me the things I'm wrong about.
562 
A. Fast stock
B. Large gains from muffler mods
C. Medium gains from compression increases. 
D. Small gains from porting after above mods. 
262
A. 2nd quickest husky stock
B. Small gain muffler modded
C. Nice gains as compression is increased
D. Basic porting small gains
F. Large gains combining finger porting with basic porting.


----------



## MustangMike (Apr 12, 2015)

Judging from the # of 262s recently on his bench, I think a certain saw porter has figured out how to unleash the beast within that saw.

That said, the wt that I have seen posted make it very close to the 562/362 in wt.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Apr 12, 2015)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Ok , ill let you pilgrims get on with your thread here , thanks for the help
> 
> "A saw will only kill a tree if its from tennessee"
> 
> ( told you guys i was a good rapper )


My tree killers are from Germany and Sweden......ground guys are from Mexico.


----------



## old-cat (Apr 12, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> The MS361 handles quite well, despite the inboard clutch
> 
> 
> I agree, and the 560xp definately handles better than the 361 - but the 361 still handles well for a saw with an inboard clutch.


It seems like you would have a 357xp instead of that ms361


----------



## sunfish (Apr 12, 2015)

old-cat said:


> It seems like you would have a 357xp instead of that ms361


 No, sawtroll don't like the 357 so much... He missed out on a good model with this one...


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 12, 2015)

old-cat said:


> It seems like you would have a 357xp instead of that ms361





sunfish said:


> No, sawtroll don't like the 357 so much... He missed out on a good model with this one...


I never regretted my choise of the 361 - but obviously there were +/- either way....


----------



## redfin (Apr 12, 2015)

Wuts with all this 60cc chat? 70+ is where its at.


----------



## srcarr52 (Apr 12, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I get a big set of crappy diamond burrs from ebay sellers. Buy several and throw most of them away.
> 
> I use the Alumihog burrs to cut thru the plating. I normally use at least 1 a day, and sometimes I toss two.



CC sells really nice diamond burrs, so far I haven't been able to wear one out and they don't clog up with aluminum either. 

Those alums hogs from buckeye are nice but I try not to let them hit too much plating as they will dull quickly. I'll use a double cut to get through it first. The single cuts are a good in between and leave a really nice finish, they are great for transfers as they don't carter as much as double cuts. 

BTW. Where are you getting your carbide through now? The buckeye site has been down for a few months.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 12, 2015)

srcarr52 said:


> CC sells really nice diamond burrs, so far I haven't been able to wear one out and they don't clog up with aluminum either.
> 
> Those alums hogs from buckeye are nice but I try not to let them hit too much plating as they will dull quickly. I'll use a double cut to get through it first. The single cuts are a good in between and leave a really nice finish, they are great for transfers as they don't carter as much as double cuts.
> 
> *BTW. Where are you getting your carbide through now? *The buckeye site has been down for a few months.




Ebay.


----------



## srcarr52 (Apr 12, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Ebay.



Same here. I'd rather be able to buy straight from them, just seems more reliable.


----------



## BWS-LLC (Apr 13, 2015)

Randy

This might have been hashed out years ago, but with Finger Porting, are you worried about the loss of ring support in these cylinders and long term longevity?

I'm sending mine to Randy D and he's going to play around with his, mine and Bill Elliot's. 

That's a lot of aluminum being hogged out of these cylinders and I'd be a little concerned about the ring support.


----------



## BWS-LLC (Apr 13, 2015)

I know this has been hashed out in this thread, but I ain't looking through 30 pages.

I have a cylinder with a decomp that I cleaned up, I also just acquired a clean cylinder with no decomp that is heading my way (Kafier I thought he said)

What of these two cylinders is the better one of the two (if there is a lick of difference)


----------



## kz1000 (Apr 13, 2015)

Great thread, being as I have all the 262 people in one place, I need a set of carb bolts and a throttle linkage with holder. Thanks for bringing them together Randy


----------



## old-cat (Apr 13, 2015)

BWS-LLC said:


> I know this has been hashed out in this thread, but I ain't looking through 30 pages.
> 
> I have a cylinder with a decomp that I cleaned up, I also just acquired a clean cylinder with no decomp that is heading my way (Kafier I thought he said)
> 
> What of these two cylinders is the better one of the two (if there is a lick of difference)


Kafar is NOT a good cyl. for high performance.


----------



## Landmark (Apr 13, 2015)

BWS-LLC said:


> Randy
> 
> This might have been hashed out years ago, but with Finger Porting, are you worried about the loss of ring support in these cylinders and long term longevity?


I have wondered the same thing. I guess it depends on the amount of use and the application you are going to use your 262. for the average Joe, like me, it will be 10-15 cords of wood a year, or less. Finger porting might cut the life of the rings in half but that's still 10yrs of average use IMO. Replacing the rings is pretty quick anyway.


----------



## TBrown (Apr 13, 2015)

Here is a saw for someone


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 13, 2015)

redfin said:


> Wuts with all this 60cc chat? 70+ is where its at.



agreed, although my favorite period is 87cc 288xp . This thread has been awesome though, theres been "idle" talk of doing a comparison between the current offering and the "classic hotrod 262xp" for years. Randy finally put a thread together for us and it has been sweet. Never expected it to make it to 30 pages. Glad there is a lot of "meat and potatos" in the thread and not just BS.


----------



## rattler362 (Apr 13, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> agreed, although my favorite period is 87cc 288xp . This thread has been awesome though, theres been "idle" talk of doing a comparison between the current offering and the "classic hotrod 262xp" for years. Randy finally put a thread together for us and it has been sweet. Never expected it to make it to 30 pages. Glad there is a lot of "meat and potatos" in the thread and not just BS.


Very well said Steven.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 13, 2015)

landmark said:


> I have wondered the same thing. I guess it depends on the amount of use and the application you are going to use your 262. for the average Joe, like me, it will be 10-15 cords of wood a year, or less. Finger porting might cut the life of the rings in half but that's still 10yrs of average use IMO. Replacing the rings is pretty quick anyway.



If there's a good bevel on the fingers........I don't think there will be any accelerated ring wear. Notice that the uppermost part of the finger is vertical. That matters too I believe.


----------



## Landmark (Apr 13, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> If there's a good bevel on the fingers........I don't think there will be any accelerated ring wear. Notice that the uppermost part of the finger is vertical. That matters too I believe.


Makes sense that a good bevel would ease the ring wear considerably. Would like to see what compression is after a few seasons. I admire the thorough job you do on your finger ports. Not just performance but durability factored into the equation.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 13, 2015)

I plan on doing this until I can't any longer. 

As long as I take breaks ever so often, I'll likely be at it for many more years. 

I like to see the saws I build last.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 13, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I plan on doing this until I can't any longer.
> 
> As long as I take breaks ever so often, I'll likely be at it for many more years.
> 
> I like to see the saws I build last.


That's good I need a mentor


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 13, 2015)

I'll gladly share what little I know. We all just wanna enjoy a fine running saw when we can.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 13, 2015)

Randy if you only know a little , I guess I know nothing


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 13, 2015)

What I think is one thing........what I know is quite another. 

I *think* I have stuff figured out........then I realize hat I'm merely scratching the surface.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 13, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> What I think is one thing........what I know is quite another.
> 
> I *think* I have stuff figured out........then I realize hat I'm merely scratching the surface.


Thanks


----------



## mdavlee (Apr 13, 2015)

Closest thing to a 262 I've had around[emoji41]


----------



## fastLeo151 (Apr 13, 2015)

[E="Mastermind, post: 5316548, member: 43167"]What I think is one thing........what I know is quite another.

I *think* I have stuff figured out........then I realize hat I'm merely scratching the surface.[/QUOTE]

That applys to life as well


----------



## Tor R (Apr 15, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> You really don't want the top to be flat though.
> 
> If you cut the finger in with an AlumaHog burr, and stay down a few .001s you can finish the top with a very small burr in the right angle, and make a nice radius in the back.
> 
> ...


Randy,
The dimension of the burr, is it the 1/4" head you use on the bridge/finger porting?
And when we are speaking about carbide burrs, what dimensions and type head would you say is a must have when it comes to porting?

Over to 262 jugs, I didnt check with a caliper, but my eyes tell me that the upper transfer is different KS vs Mahle.
A standard KS jug seems to be wider, while the Mahle jug seems to have a longer opening time.
On the batch you worked on, did you got the same impression?

I know we spoked earlier to shave or not on the lower transfer lip and that is not meeded on a 262 jug.
But if we took a 254 jug, is that more a typhical jug where it would give a tad to shave of the lip a bit?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 15, 2015)

This is the burr I use more than any other. I go thru 5 - 6 a week. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbide-Bur...979?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58b44aad63

I checked the KS jug in this batch against the early Mahle version......I found little difference. The later versions of the Mahle jug have much less transfer duration. 

The only reason to do anything to the lower lip is to prevent fuel from pooling there. The crank bells are nearly always up even with that lip.....so what is really accomplished by lowering them? 

On this group of saws I did nothing to them. I didn't want to add to the case volume.


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 15, 2015)

Do you use grease on your burrs?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 15, 2015)

I use a burr lube. 

What grease are you using?


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 15, 2015)

The stuff I got from Uncle Rob


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 15, 2015)

The NF burrs don't need lube.....but the less aggressive ones do.


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 15, 2015)

I was just curious why the burrs wear out so fast.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 15, 2015)

I move a lot of material with them?


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 15, 2015)

Do your standard single and double cut burrs last a lot longer?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 15, 2015)

Yes. Months really. I rarely use them though. 

There are very few cutting edges on the NF burrs......I assume that's why they dull quickly.


----------



## blsnelling (Apr 15, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Yes. Months really. I rarely use them though.
> 
> There are very few cutting edges on the NF burrs......I assume that's why they dull quickly.


Gotcha.


----------



## srcarr52 (Apr 15, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Yes. Months really. I rarely use them though.
> 
> There are very few cutting edges on the NF burrs......I assume that's why they dull quickly.



The high rake edges get destroyed by the plating, but when they are sharp they certainly move some material.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 15, 2015)

I probably should take the time to remove the plating with a cheaper burr........but time is money, and even at 12.00 a burr, one a day is a bargain.


----------



## LegDeLimber (Apr 15, 2015)

Need on more handpiece. mount the plating breaker in it.

kinda like how I would run a turret lathe for boring tubing with a nasty weld seam inside of it
But had to hold dimension for a bearing fit.
Add one more tool to index around for a roughing pass, to knock the scale and weld crispies out.
then spin the next tool in place to do the first bore pass
and a third one got the finish dimnsion nice and clean.

Trying to think whos bench I saw pics of here that had a handpice for about every dang burr or tool.
Yeah i was drooling.


----------



## Nitroman (Apr 15, 2015)

LegDeLimber said:


> Need on more handpiece. mount the plating breaker in it.
> 
> kinda like how I would run a turret lathe for boring tubing with a nasty weld seam inside of it
> But had to hold dimension for a bearing fit.
> ...



Nice visual. Expensive but nice. As usual, all it takes is money.


----------



## srcarr52 (Apr 15, 2015)

LegDeLimber said:


> Trying to think whos bench I saw pics of here that had a handpice for about every dang burr or tool.
> Yeah i was drooling.


 

Was it this one? 23 spots and I already ran out of room.


----------



## old-cat (Apr 15, 2015)

srcarr52 said:


> Was it this one? 23 spots and I already ran out of room.


Ya really ought to invest in a few more tools, man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 15, 2015)

LegDeLimber said:


> Need on more handpiece. mount the plating breaker in it.
> 
> kinda like how I would run a turret lathe for boring tubing with a nasty weld seam inside of it
> But had to hold dimension for a bearing fit.
> ...



Might have been mine.......I've got God only knows how many #30 handpieces......three MC182s......a couple of H44s, and two H28s.


----------



## .404 (Apr 15, 2015)

Do you lube your burr?


----------



## redfin (Apr 15, 2015)

[QUOTeE"bryanr2, post: 5316397, member: 60025"]agreed, although my favorite period is 87cc 288xp . This thread has been awesome though, theres been "idle" talk of doing a comparison between the current offering and the "classic hotrod 262xp" for years. Randy finally put a thread together for us and it has been sweet. Never expected it to make it to 30 pages. Glad there is a lot of "meat and potatos" in the thread and not just BS.[/QUOTE]

Yeah i agree, thats where the double  came from.


----------



## srcarr52 (Apr 16, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Might have been mine.......I've got God only knows how many #30 handpieces......three MC182s......a couple of H44s, and two H28s.



I need to get a H28 or 5.


----------



## Landmark (Apr 16, 2015)

I'm still hoping for a updated video of previous saws, but using the same bar and chain. I havn't slept good since the 262 fell to the 562 in an unfair fight.


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 16, 2015)

landmark said:


> I'm still hoping for a updated video of previous saws, but using the same bar and chain. I havn't slept good since the 262 fell to the 562 in an unfair fight.


262 was faster. I timed all the cuts and posted the numbers. Randy was joking about it losing.


----------



## Landmark (Apr 16, 2015)

M&Rtree said:


> I got 12.5 seconds 262 and 12.6 562. 18 vs 20 bars?





Mastermind said:


> 16" on the 562......20" on the 262.





M&Rtree said:


> 262 was faster. I timed all the cuts and posted the numbers. Randy was joking about it losing.


if the 262 won by .1 with a 20" b/c vs 562 16" b/c I still want to see a video of same b/c combo head to head. The 262 should obliterate it's younger competitor.


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 16, 2015)

I agree on the same bar video. 361 in the mix would be nice.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 16, 2015)

If this beats my 562 it will have to go . the 562 that is


----------



## KenJax Tree (Apr 16, 2015)

I'll keep my 562's[emoji6]


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 16, 2015)




----------



## skippysphins (Apr 21, 2015)

Anyone have videos of there freshly worked saws


----------



## Mattyo (Apr 22, 2015)

I'm taking video of my rebuild process ... I've got enough parts to put together 3 of them I think... eventually i'll have a bolt for bolt vid like my other vids. 

I'm not cutting squish band on these, just cutting the chassis down to optimize squish while retaining a gasket. Anyone have some timing numbers I should be shooting for? I think MM said somewhere in the 103 deg for exhaust, but what about blowdown and intake? around 78 sound ok for intake? I may not touch the transfers at all. who knows 

-Mattyo


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 22, 2015)

landmark said:


> if the 262 won by .1 with a 20" b/c vs 562 16" b/c I still want to see a video of same b/c combo head to head. The 262 should obliterate it's younger competitor.



It might still be misleading to an extent, as we don't know how close to optimal the work on the different saws are - and only one combination of gearing, bar, chain and wood won't tell the full truth anyway. Results will be different with other combinations....

Actually, there are no way at all to find the "final truth" - although it is very easy to get closer than was done here.


----------



## Mattyo (Apr 26, 2015)

FINALLY am getting around to this saw. I cut the chassis down a bit so I can run a tighter squish and retain a gasket. I'm at .019 right now... timing numbers are 103, 125 and 68. Seems like I'd wanna tighten the blowdown a touch and take the intake to 78 or so... no? I'm not planning on touching the exhaust timing... maybe just do a little widening and shaping. thoughts?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

Don't add too much intake........72 seems to work well on these saws. I'd take the uppers way up......to 118.


----------



## Mattyo (Apr 26, 2015)

welcome back, hope the vaca was nice.... 

15 blowdown...gotcha... i'm surprised a little on the intake... okaly dokaley.... thats why I come here... pics to follow and eventually a bolt for bolt vid


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

Think of it like this......

The intake is a valve. Once it closes......pressure builds up. Until the transfers open. Keeping the intake short.....like the designers did, allows you to raise the transfers higher without losing case pressure. The early jugs only have about 12° of blowdown.


----------



## Mattyo (Apr 26, 2015)

there are at least seven chainsaws in this pile


----------



## Mattyo (Apr 26, 2015)

but doesn't a longer intake duration mean that there's more air fuel mix added


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

You can only fill the case.......you can't overfill it. 

It's really about trapping what is inside.......so you can transfer it.


----------



## redfin (Apr 26, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Don't add too much intake........72 seems to work well on these saws. I'd take the uppers way up......to 118.


Randy, I remember reading in another thread about raising the roof of the intake instead of the floor to gain duration. What's your take on this?


----------



## Mattyo (Apr 26, 2015)

Ok...so let's say you fingerported it...does that mean you could have more intake duration or does that mean that you need more intake duration?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

redfin said:


> Randy, I remember reading in another thread about raising the roof of the intake instead of the floor to gain duration. What's your take on this?



I use that, and width to gain area. Remember, the porting on these engines is measured in Time/Area. If you keep the time short.....you need more area. You'll still be able to fill the case, but you can trap, and transfer more. Really what we are seeing is a more efficient engine. Less spitback, less fuel usage, same power, if not more. 



Mattyo said:


> Ok...so let's say you fingerported it...does that mean you could have more intake duration or does that mean that you need more intake duration?



I still use 72° on this saw. With or without fingers. 

The more pressure you can build in the case.....the more aggressively the charge will be forced thru the transfers.


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 26, 2015)

Aggressively.... I like that word.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

Me too.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 26, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> If this beats my 562 it will have to go . the 562 that is



You would honestly sell a saw because it was a second slower from one builders saw video ?

Im serious.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

I have to agree with that post Ryan. These videos I posted were very crude......different chains, cutting styles, etc. I could care less about even several seconds in the cut. To me it's about running a saw that's easy on my old body. The 262 is the least smooth out of bunch.......well except the Poulan. The 359, and the 562 are miles ahead in the AV dept.


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 26, 2015)

Hi randy happy to see you survived your vacation. Hope all is well buddy


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Apr 26, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I have to agree with that post Ryan. These videos I posted were very crude......different chains, cutting styles, etc. I could care less about even several seconds in the cut. To me it's about running a saw that's easy on my old body. The 262 is the least smooth out of bunch.......well except the Poulan. The 359, and the 562 are miles ahead in the AV dept.



Bingo.


----------



## M&Rtree (Apr 26, 2015)

262 won't necessarily beat you to death but the 562 is one smooth saw.


----------



## rattler362 (Apr 26, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> a more efficient engine. Less spitback, less fuel usage



Mine loves it's fuel it goes thru a tank of fuel quick.


----------



## sunfish (Apr 26, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> I'll keep my 562's[emoji6]


Same here! Nothing against the 262 though...


----------



## gary courtney (Apr 26, 2015)

you about ready for mine Randy? since you practiced on these others!


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

Yeah........I'm going back to work full time on the 4th.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Apr 26, 2015)

What I like about the 262 is I can sell 1 and buy 3-4 more 60cc poulans.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

But the 60cc Poulan didn't come close in terms of performance. 

I hoped it would do better.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Apr 26, 2015)

Dont care about ported how they act anymore. Stock for stock is all I care about and 100% of the folks saws I work on local.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Dont care about ported how they act anymore. Stock for stock is all I care about and 100% of the folks saws I work on local.



That puts in the minority around here then.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Apr 26, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> That puts in the minority around here then.




Here is 1% of the chainsaw users out there in the real world.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

Less than that. lol


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Apr 26, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Less than that. lol



I was trying to be nice.  .000000000000001% then


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

Better.


----------



## Tor R (Apr 26, 2015)

Randy, my english is not good and all this with porting the 262 is kinda new learning for me, hope I can ask for some porting ideas.

Inlet timing, i understand you prefer 72*. You dont work with the inlet, or did you widen it a bit?
What was the timing opening-close inlet timing?

Exhaust timing, did you change a bit there, and what ended your timings up to be there?
Did you widen up the exhaust port?

If I have got it correct, transfer timing 118*?

If there is anything I have overlook I would appreciate if you guide me on the correct way.


----------



## redfin (Apr 26, 2015)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> I was trying to be nice.  .000000000000001% then



I like being in that minority. Figuring out what these little buggers like and grinding on them is really entertaining.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Apr 26, 2015)

redfin said:


> I like being in that minority. Figuring out what these little buggers like and grinding on them is really entertaining.



I used to be there.  Then I realized the wood didnt care how long it took 7 seconds or 5. 

Thinking these were all ported. Maybe 1 was stock. Plus there was many others that were race ported not in pic.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 26, 2015)

Tor R said:


> Randy, my english is not good and all this with porting the 262 is kinda new learning for me, hope I can ask for some porting ideas.
> 
> Inlet timing, i understand you prefer 72*. You dont work with the inlet, or did you widen it a bit?
> What was the timing opening-close inlet timing?
> ...



The machine work changes the timing on all the ports. But I raise both the exhaust and the transfer back up to about stock height. Ex: 103, Tr: 118. The intake is just where the machine work lowered it to. The intake has been widened.....and the roof has been raised a bit too. That gives me more area....but allows me a quicker closing point.

In Norwegian....

Maskinen arbeid endrer timingen på alle portene . Men jeg heve både eksos og overføringen tilbake opp til ca lager høyde . Ex : 103, Tr : 118. Inntaket er bare der maskinen arbeid senket det til . Inntaket har blitt utvidet ..... og taket er hevet litt for . Det gir meg mer område .... men tillater meg en raskere lukking punkt .


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 26, 2015)

Thanks for your hospitality today Randy!


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 27, 2015)

It was my pleasure Steven. Thanks for the splitting hammer. I've got it in my bedroom........had to show Glenda.


----------



## Duane(Pa) (Apr 27, 2015)

Tough Nut?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 27, 2015)

Husqvarna splitting hammer.


----------



## redfin (Apr 27, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I use that, and width to gain area. Remember, the porting on these engines is measured in Time/Area. If you keep the time short.....you need more area. You'll still be able to fill the case, but you can trap, and transfer more. Really what we are seeing is a more efficient engine. Less spitback, less fuel usage, same power, if not more.



Thanks man. What's a good indicator a saw could use more intake duration?


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 27, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Husqvarna splitting hammer.



It's the perfect sized maul between the x27 and the 6.5lb Mueller Maul.


----------



## SawTroll (Apr 27, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> The machine work changes the timing on all the ports. But I raise both the exhaust and the transfer back up to about stock height. Ex: 103, Tr: 118. The intake is just where the machine work lowered it to. The intake has been widened.....and the roof has been raised a bit too. That gives me more area....but allows me a quicker closing point.
> 
> In Norwegian....
> 
> Maskinen arbeid endrer timingen på alle portene . Men jeg heve både eksos og overføringen tilbake opp til ca lager høyde . Ex : 103, Tr : 118. Inntaket er bare der maskinen arbeid senket det til . Inntaket har blitt utvidet ..... og taket er hevet litt for . Det gir meg mer område .... men tillater meg en raskere lukking punkt .




Not the worst "Google translation" I have seen, even though it isn't perfect!


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Apr 27, 2015)

randy lets go to brazil and PICK THIS UP!


----------



## Cope1024 (Apr 27, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Husqvarna splitting hammer.


Like this one? http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/axes-pruning-saws/hatchet/


----------



## Onan18 (Apr 27, 2015)

jakewells said:


> randy lets go to brazil and PICK THIS UP!
> View attachment 421274



 Count me in!

Joe


----------



## Deets066 (Apr 27, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> The machine work changes the timing on all the ports. But I raise both the exhaust and the transfer back up to about stock height. Ex: 103, Tr: 118. The intake is just where the machine work lowered it to. The intake has been widened.....and the roof has been raised a bit too. That gives me more area....but allows me a quicker closing point.
> 
> In Norwegian....
> 
> Maskinen arbeid endrer timingen på alle portene . Men jeg heve både eksos og overføringen tilbake opp til ca lager høyde . Ex : 103, Tr : 118. Inntaket er bare der maskinen arbeid senket det til . Inntaket har blitt utvidet ..... og taket er hevet litt for . Det gir meg mer område .... men tillater meg en raskere lukking punkt .


So, when grinding the roof of intake you want the quicker closing point to avoid spit back and improve efficiency? Or is there more


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 27, 2015)

Cope1024 said:


> Like this one? http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/axes-pruning-saws/hatchet/



This is the one I got him. I ordered one from Baileys for myself and added a second one for "muh fwend".
http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/axes-pruning-saws/splitting-maul/


----------



## Fire8 (Apr 27, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> This is the one I got him. I ordered one from Baileys for myself and added a second one for "muh fwend".
> http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/axes-pruning-saws/splitting-maul/


Get you a GB Steven


----------



## DexterDay (Apr 27, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> This is the one I got him. I ordered one from Baileys for myself and added a second one for "muh fwend".
> http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/axes-pruning-saws/splitting-maul/



You're a good friend Steven!!


----------



## skippysphins (Apr 27, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> This is the one I got him. I ordered one from Baileys for myself and added a second one for "muh fwend".
> http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/axes-pruning-saws/splitting-maul/


Very nice of you buddy


----------



## bryanr2 (Apr 27, 2015)

Fire8 said:


> Get you a GB Steven


I have 3 or 4 of them.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 28, 2015)

redfin said:


> Thanks man. What's a good indicator a saw could use more intake duration?



That's a damn good question. To be completely honest, I study the original design with an eye on carb size, case volume, and transfer height when deciding where to take my intake height. When I started using less intake, unloaded RPM went higher. That was an unexpected result. 



Cope1024 said:


> Like this one? http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/axes-pruning-saws/hatchet/



No....this one. 

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/axes-pruning-saws/splitting-maul/



Deets066 said:


> So, when grinding the roof of intake you want the quicker closing point to avoid spit back and improve efficiency? Or is there more



You'd only want to raise the roof and widen the intake when the area of the port was small. For example, on the MS660, I don't normally do anything to the size of the intake port. After all, IMHO it is already too low, and really needs less time/area. 

Also, if you are saying about performance gains from less intake........there's a fine balance there. Too little intake, and the case is unfilled.........too much and all you gain is spitback. 



DexterDay said:


> You're a good friend Steven!!



Yes.......yes he is. I'm lucky to have a friend like Steven.


----------



## Cope1024 (Apr 28, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> This is the one I got him. I ordered one from Baileys for myself and added a second one for "muh fwend".
> http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/axes-pruning-saws/splitting-maul/



Definitely overkill for anything under 70cc.


----------



## [email protected] (May 4, 2015)

Let's talk about 262xp ' s some more.


----------



## Mastermind (May 4, 2015)

Cory.........that face shield is suppose to be over your face.


----------



## bryanr2 (May 4, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Let's talk about 262xp ' s some more.




greatest 60cc saw ever made. Every time someone post that they weren't impressed with one they had, I always think, "you just haven't been around the right 262xp." Bc if you run one that is ported "CORRECTLY" they nullify the need to have a 70cc saw. (and will hand any 562xp it's ass)

you 562xp lovers move on, this is a 262 thread.


----------



## bryanr2 (May 4, 2015)

there's a reason I have 4 mint 262xp's.


----------



## [email protected] (May 4, 2015)

Yep... I'm sure I realized that about the time I finished. I really only wear the helmet when felling. Those falling branches hurt.


----------



## SawTroll (May 4, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> greatest 60cc saw ever made. Every time someone post that they weren't impressed with one they had, I always think, "you just haven't been around the right 262xp." Bc if you run one that is ported "CORRECTLY" they nullify the need to have a 70cc saw. (and will hand any 562xp it's ass)
> 
> you 562xp lovers move on, this is a 262 thread.



Well, all I can say about that is that a 1997 test report from DLG said that their dyno found 3.6 kW/4.9 hp at 9750 rpm, and the same max torque as in the 372xp (but at very low rpm, where it normally doesn't matter much). However, those stats could well be copied over copied over from a 1992 one (they renewed them every 5. year, and you never know if a it actually was a new full test on such stats, as the main scope was operator safety and user environment issues).

The above is mainly just an anecdote, it is not meant as a serious contribution to any discussion.


----------



## psuiewalsh (May 5, 2015)

So why is the 262 favored more than the other huskies in the class? Lack of carb issues? Few more cc's? No autotune complexity? I've had modded 261's, 262, 2159, 357, 2260 just why is the 262 the clear top choice.


----------



## Pud (May 5, 2015)

Coz they look like a mini 395 , i like no autotune also


----------



## Pud (May 5, 2015)

And the throttle lock and choke lever fall out every second day on 357's


----------



## SawTroll (May 5, 2015)

psuiewalsh said:


> So why is the 262 favored more than the other huskies in the class? Lack of carb issues? Few more cc's? No autotune complexity? I've had modded 261's, 262, 2159, 357, 2260 just why is the 262 the clear top choice.




The 262xp simply was a stellar performer at the time for the size and weight, and it didn't really get a proper replacement before the 560xp and 562xp came out late 2011 - the original replacement was the 362xp, but that one was a not so nimble inboard clutch saw based on the 371xp. The 357xp really was a replacement for the 254xp, and simply too small in cc to be a proper replacement, and in the true world heavier than the 262xp originally was.

What made the 262xp legendary, at least partly was the lack of a proper replacement, but that situation was corrected a few years ago.


----------



## DGSmooth (May 5, 2015)

cheers guys - so in other words a 262XP is not a 'dud', like i thought? lol.....i don't know shite about saws, and just inherited this old 262XP. having trouble with getting enough oil to the chain, and thought maybe this saw was kind of a poor design or a dud.....looks like not. sorry to comment of-topic like this, but i'm guess from whats been said here this saw worth the trouble of getting this oil problem sorted out?


----------



## Mastermind (May 5, 2015)

Yes.......well worth it. 

Pull the clutch and check the drive gear.


----------



## DGSmooth (May 5, 2015)

okay good, i'll keep digging then. saw runs nice and hasn't been used much, probably over-kill for my needs, but good to know it is a well built unit......

i have pulled that and it all looks good. pump, gear, the little plunger, the adjusting screw - all like new. seems like i getting oil out the case, but no to the chain. bar is cleaned out (and is proper bar).....wondering why the bar covers over and appears to seal off the oil tank vent hole?


----------



## Mastermind (May 5, 2015)

Wrong bar?


----------



## DGSmooth (May 5, 2015)

according to local husqvarna dealer is correct bar.....


----------



## PA Dan (May 5, 2015)

DGSmooth said:


> according to local husqvarna dealer is correct bar.....


Post pics and maybe all these 262 experts can figure it out!


----------



## Tor R (May 5, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> The 262xp simply was a stellar performer at the time for the size and weight, and it didn't really get a proper replacement before the 560xp and 562xp came out late 2011 - the original replacement was the 362xp, but that one was a not so nimble inboard clutch saw based on the 371xp. The 357xp really was a replacement for the 254xp, and simply too small in cc to be a proper replacement, and in the true world heavier than the 262xp originally was.
> 
> What made the 262xp legendary, at least partly was the lack of a proper replacement, but that situation was corrected a few years ago.


I bought a few part saws from a local professional, he is one of the few left here in southern Norway.
He was a big fan of 262, first with 560 he felt that Husqvarna had gotten a successor. Between 262 to 560, he bought several 357, 359, 362, 372, and was basically not happy with any of them compared to 262.


----------



## Nitroman (May 5, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Let's talk about 262xp ' s some more.




Damn that saw cuts fast!


----------



## sunfish (May 5, 2015)

Pud said:


> And the throttle lock and choke lever fall out every second day on 357's


I have a 357 that's around 10 years old and never had that problem. I like it better than a 262...


----------



## M&Rtree (May 5, 2015)

sunfish said:


> I have a 357 that's around 10 years old and never had that problem. I like it better than a 262...


357 is a dang good saw.


----------



## old-cat (May 5, 2015)

M&Rtree said:


> 357 is a dang good saw.


It's JUST a Husky critter


----------



## M&Rtree (May 5, 2015)

old-cat said:


> It's JUST a Husky critter


You mean there's other kinds?


----------



## skippysphins (May 16, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> If the 562 would have had this crappy chain......it would have lost.
> 
> Jon messed this one up........that's my story......and I'm sticking to it.



Is that my 262 in the video? Just asking buddy


----------



## cali6construction9 (May 16, 2015)

any idea what saw this is??

stihl 026 husky? xp mac 610 efco 132s craftsman 54cc? mac 1635


----------



## cuttinties (May 16, 2015)

cali6construction9 said:


> View attachment 424983
> View attachment 424984
> View attachment 424985
> View attachment 424986
> ...


Looks like a 268


----------



## cali6construction9 (May 16, 2015)

Thanks I cross threaded believe it's a 266. Third pic down see how the air cover flows into the handle the 268 it's squared up and the 268 they started using paper filters

stihl 026 husky? xp mac 610 efco 132s craftsman 54cc? mac 1635


----------



## Mattyo (May 18, 2015)

Here's 262xp cylinder that I've worked over a bit...103 118 72 timing...cut chassis to get appropriate squish with a gasket.

thank you mm for timing recommendation....


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 19, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> Here's 262xp cylinder that I've worked over a bit...103 118 72 timing...cut chassis to get appropriate squish with a gasket.View attachment 425445
> View attachment 425446
> thank you mm for timing recommendation....


Nice!
When you say cut chassis, do you mean the case, or the base of the cylinder?


----------



## Mattyo (May 19, 2015)

I cut the case on the Bridgeport mill...



Go to the 11 min mark...this is a 385xp ...but soon I'll have a vid of the 262xp

This way I'm not machining the cylinder head except for adjusting timing


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 19, 2015)

Why do you prefer this way? Pros/cons?


----------



## Mattyo (May 19, 2015)

Lazyness.... I don't really feel like diggin through bits and doggin up a head on the lathe.... If I had my own shop i might set it up so its easier to do the lathe work, and cut the base of the cylinder and the squish band as well...but I'm working at my father's shop, so I do the best I can. Plus, I prefer to retain a gasket... so what I do is check squish with a gasket, then cut the appropriate amount off the chassis, and recheck squish. Usually I come pretty close to .020"


----------



## Mattyo (May 19, 2015)

One downside is that I don't get the uptick in compression that MM gets by cutting squishband ....so it would make sense for me make a popup, but I haven't done that yet. I would also need to to take an additional .030 off the case to account for the popup. They way I do it as is, its still possible to go back to a stock jug at any time


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 19, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> One downside is that I don't get the uptick in compression that MM gets by cutting squishband ....so it would make sense for me make a popup, but I haven't done that yet. I would also need to to take an additional .030 off the case to account for the popup. They way I do it as is, its still possible to go back to a stock jug at any time


Why would you need an additional .030 for the popup? Isn't the idea to keep the squish tight and the popup is just in the combustion chamber?
I've got a 181 that someone milled the case on and wondered why? Achieves the same goal I guess so that's great! Different methods, options!![emoji106]


----------



## Mattyo (May 19, 2015)

Because I'd need to machine off .030 of the piston to attain the popup, which then messes up the timings of everything unless I lower the cylinder head further...yes...options


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 19, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> Because I'd need to machine off .030 of the piston to attain the popup, which then messes up the timings of everything unless I lower the cylinder head further...yes...options


Oh ok. I was thinking you would weld on a popup. 
Got it.
[emoji106]


----------



## cali6construction9 (May 19, 2015)

Yeaa speaking of welding I just got a miller deltaweld 300  

stihl 026 husky 266 xp mac 610 efco 132s craftsman 54cc? mac 1635


----------



## Mattyo (May 19, 2015)

There was a guy on this site welding a popup ....was over 230 psi compression!!!

I'm good anywhere between 150 and 200 myself...


----------



## cali6construction9 (May 19, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> There was a guy on this site welding a popup ....was over 230 psi compression!!!
> 
> I'm good anywhere between 150 and 200 myself...


What is a pop up?

stihl 026, husky 266xp, mac 610, efco 132s, craftsman 54cc, mac 1635, Miller deltaweld 300


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 19, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> There was a guy on this site welding a popup ....was over 230 psi compression!!!
> 
> I'm good anywhere between 150 and 200 myself...


Yeah you are probably there already just cutting the case down for squish.


----------



## cali6construction9 (May 19, 2015)

Doming the piston?

stihl 026, husky 266xp, mac 610, efco 132s, craftsman 54cc, mac 1635, Miller deltaweld 300


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 19, 2015)

cali6construction9 said:


> What is a pop up?
> 
> stihl 026, husky 266xp, mac 610, efco 132s, craftsman 54cc, mac 1635, Miller deltaweld 300


http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...atalk1419694031-675285-jpg.389778/?embedded=1
This is a welded popup by the guy that had like 230psi. It just protrudes into the combustion chamber. He ended up cutting it down and cleaning it up.


----------



## cali6construction9 (May 19, 2015)

It's just sending me to the unread timeline..

stihl 026, husky 266xp, mac 610, efco 132s, craftsman 54cc, mac 1635, Miller deltaweld 300


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## Mattyo (May 19, 2015)

yes....a domed piston of sorts....


----------



## Mattyo (May 19, 2015)

and since this thread was started by MM, and popups are not his thing, I would suggest moving such topics elsewhere...


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 19, 2015)

cali6construction9 said:


> It's just sending me to the unread timeline..
> 
> stihl 026, husky 266xp, mac 610, efco 132s, craftsman 54cc, mac 1635, Miller deltaweld 300


Sorry, here it is.





And mattyo is right, we are derailing MM's thread. Now I'm going to have to get him some pie.
What kind do you want?


----------



## cali6construction9 (May 19, 2015)

How hard is that to polish out so you're not throwing off balance?

stihl 026, husky 266xp, mac 610, efco 132s, craftsman 54cc, mac 1635, Miller deltaweld 300


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## drf255 (May 19, 2015)

Actually, that was 270 psi. 

I shaved it down. 

Then there was this one

http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...hutzl-stihl-039-cylinder.277638/#post-5324515

He never responded to me or built it. 

Btw, don't think you can weld aluminum with a delta weld. Is it AC?


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 19, 2015)

drf255 said:


> Actually, that was 270 psi.
> 
> I shaved it down.
> 
> ...


That's right! I forgot it was that crazy high!!


----------



## sunfish (May 19, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> and since this thread was started by MM, and popups are not his thing, I would suggest moving such topics elsewhere...


I hear Randy is goin back to pop-ups...


----------



## cali6construction9 (May 19, 2015)

drf255 said:


> Actually, that was 270 psi.
> 
> I shaved it down.
> 
> ...


Dc 3 phase 460volt 

stihl 026, husky 266xp, mac 610, efco 132s, craftsman 54cc, mac 1635, Miller deltaweld 300


----------



## cali6construction9 (May 19, 2015)

It'll be here Friday  I've still got to get a lead feader and a couple argon bottles lol and 3 phase 

stihl 026, husky 266xp, mac 610, efco 132s, craftsman 54cc, mac 1635, Miller deltaweld 300


----------



## gary courtney (May 19, 2015)

sunfish said:


> I hear Randy is goin back to pop-ups...


AFTER he finishes mine!!!!!


----------



## Nitroman (May 20, 2015)

Paragon Builder said:


> Sorry, here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I think he likes pecan, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 20, 2015)

Well if this don't cut it, I'll have to get another.


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## cali6construction9 (May 21, 2015)

So what's the deal with the 266xp? Is the 262xp better?

stihl 026, husky 266xp, mac 610, efco 132s, craftsman 54cc, mac 1635, Miller deltaweld 300


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## Mattyo (May 22, 2015)

I don't have an answer to that question. ..buy I have pics of my freshly rebuilt 262xp! ....261 chassis...trimmed case to optimize squish. ..new ring....ported jug by me to mm spec...103 118 72 or thereabouts....greased it up and it gassed and it fires!


----------



## Mattyo (May 22, 2015)

I took a video of the whole thing so video will be forthcoming and I have 2 other saws to build is well


----------



## Mattyo (May 23, 2015)

it runs fine 


I think I'll grab my husky 350 most often...but this is a nice addition to my lineup...got 2 more coming too


----------



## Mattyo (May 26, 2015)

Another one on the bench.. chassis cut to optimize squish...down to abut .023 from .043 stock.... intake and exhaust timing is identical to the other one I just did...103 and 68 after squish was trimmed. So I've taken the transfers to 118 and I'll aim for 72 on the intake.


----------



## Landmark (May 26, 2015)

I got to run my ported 262 with a friend who had a stock 372. I was very impressed with 262. It noticeably outcut the 372.


----------



## Adirondackstihl (May 26, 2015)

Good thing it wasn't 261 day, there'd be a bunch of snagged rings


----------



## bryanr2 (May 26, 2015)

landmark said:


> I got to run my ported 262 with a friend who had a stock 372. I was very impressed with 262. It noticeably outcut the 372.


a Mastermind 262xp eliminates the need to own a 70cc saw for most


----------



## M&Rtree (May 26, 2015)

landmark said:


> I got to run my ported 262 with a friend who had a stock 372. I was very impressed with 262. It noticeably outcut the 372.


Yours looks strong for not being finger ported. Terry is known to do great work though.


----------



## Landmark (May 26, 2015)

bryanr2 said:


> a Mastermind 262xp eliminates the need to own a 70cc saw for most


I would like to run a MM 262 but I cant see the need to get rid of my WWS 262. Of course one of each sounds nice


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 26, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> Good thing it wasn't 261 day, there'd be a bunch of snagged rings


Why is this?


----------



## Adirondackstihl (May 26, 2015)

Paragon Builder said:


> Why is this?


You haven't been following the trolls have you!

Shame on you!!

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/project-stumpbroke-ms261.213343/page-3


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 26, 2015)

Adirondackstihl said:


> You haven't been following the trolls have you!
> 
> Shame on you!!
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/project-stumpbroke-ms261.213343/page-3


Funny I was thinking husky 261. Then it just popped in my head. But you beat me to it. Thanks Jer!


----------



## Mattyo (May 26, 2015)

Landmark ..

Why not have both?


----------



## skippysphins (May 27, 2015)

Which jug works better when porting the 262? Mahle or ks. Does the hda 87 work well with both cylinders?


----------



## Mattyo (May 27, 2015)

I'll let mm answer that one....

Question on oil seals
....the metal seal holder on flywheel side...is the whole thing one piece? I have a plastic seal holder too and it seems to use the usual oil seal inside it.... the metal one looks different though. ..pics of the metal one dismantled?


----------



## Pud (May 27, 2015)




----------



## Pud (May 27, 2015)




----------



## Mattyo (May 27, 2015)

this is the plastic one...has a regular metal seal pressed in...but the metal holder has a seal that looks different


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 27, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> View attachment 426480
> it runs fine
> 
> 
> I think I'll grab my husky 350 most often...but this is a nice addition to my lineup...got 2 more coming too


Why do you like the 350 better? And why are you selling the 262? 
Do you not like it?


----------



## Adirondackstihl (May 27, 2015)

Paragon Builder said:


> Why do you like the 350 better? And why are you selling the 262?
> Do you not like it?


Probably because of the weight.
350/346 are real light/nimble machines.


----------



## Mattyo (May 27, 2015)

I have only run the 262 a tiny bit. I can see how I'd like it...and I will be building one for myself....but I tend to over buy things...and so I end up doing a few saws all at the same timg and selling some...I'll have two rebuilt saws for sale eventually  
...I really can't afford to keep them all...so i sell off what I don't need and have fun in the process. ..and resurrect a saw or two!

The 350 is so cheap to run and light and parts are easy to obtain and super easy to work on that it makes it a no brainer to use most often around the house. But I will have fun with the 262


----------



## Mattyo (May 30, 2015)

I'm getting better at porting


----------



## Paragon Builder (May 30, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> I'm getting better at porting View attachment 427779
> View attachment 427780


Awesome!!!


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## Agrarian (May 31, 2015)

What is the earliest 262 that you guys have? I have one with serial #0070070 - so the 7th week of 1990 and the 70th saw that week. Since 1990 was the first production year, this was fairly early.


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## gomoto69 (Jun 1, 2015)

Hey randy, very educational thread, well done. You mentioned way back in the beginning that the 262xp had very good stock timing numbers, making for a factory hotrod. What model do you think had the best stock timing numbers that you've seen? My old 181se runs very strong, would be interested to know how it stacks up. Do you think the 262xp was an all time best, or is there better?


----------



## Mastermind (Jun 1, 2015)

A lot of saws have great numbers. The thing is, as the years progress, the numbers tend to change. For instance, the MS660. Back in the days of the first 066s, they had very good timing numbers, but as the years went by, the numbers got terrible. 

EPA? I'm not sure really.


----------



## gomoto69 (Jun 1, 2015)

Thanks randy, i suppose timing numbers are just part of a complex equation as to what makes a strong running 2 stroke. I does seem like some of the older classic saws can outrun their modern equivalents, but then as you say, they didn't have epa breathing down their necks! I've had way too good of luck with my 181 and 298xp to ever give them up anyway!


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## Mattyo (Jun 13, 2015)

This one is for me....next one someone already has dibs on hehe....


----------



## Mattyo (Jun 13, 2015)

That looks like 180 to me 

New ring. ..haven't even started it yet


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## Paragon Builder (Jun 13, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> This one is for me....next one someone already has dibs on hehe....View attachment 430345
> View attachment 430346


Nice looking saw! Are you going to port it the same as the others or a little more aggressive for your self?


----------



## Mattyo (Jun 13, 2015)

Well...I usually put the junkiest parts on my saws and sell the good stuff hehe... the porting for me is the same no matter what I'm doing with the saw...chassis cut to optimize squish then adjust ports to MM recommendation

Then pray that it starts!

Actually. ..I have an interesting issue with the carb. Got a kit for it....but the pump diaphragm only fits upside down....any issue with this?????


----------



## Paragon Builder (Jun 13, 2015)

Hmm?? Pics???
Wrong diaphragm in the kit maybe?


----------



## Mattyo (Jun 13, 2015)

We will see if it starts!! It was missing a mounting hole...but looks identical otherwise. ..it fit fine upside down


----------



## Paragon Builder (Jun 13, 2015)

Matt have you been cutting the squish as well as milling the case? 
On my FIL's 262 I only had .009 with gasket removed without any machine work. 
What have you found? You've done 3 or 4 now? Have they been reasonably consistent?


----------



## Paragon Builder (Jun 13, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> We will see if it starts!! It was missing a mounting hole...but looks identical otherwise. ..it fit fine upside down


I wonder even if it starts if it would move fuel different enough to affect tuning????


----------



## Mattyo (Jun 13, 2015)

I do not cut squish band....no need to chuck up a cylinder for me...just milling the chassis to get it down to 020 squish seems to be working fine. 

Oh
and I retain the gasket

So far the timing numbers even between brands s cylinder is remarkably consistent


----------



## Mattyo (Jun 13, 2015)

Well...there metal on both sides of the diaphragm. ...so as long as the heights match...can't imagine it'll be a problem...one side llike like a button...the other side looks like a wagon wheel. ...I'm gonna try wagon wheel up this am and see if it tunes


----------



## Paragon Builder (Jun 13, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> I do not cut squish band....no need to chuck up a cylinder for me...just milling the chassis to get it down to 020 squish seems to be working fine.
> 
> Oh
> and I retain the gasket
> ...


Ok I see. So my gasket was .030 which set me at .039. 
So you would take .019 off the case to retain gasket.
Cool


----------



## Paragon Builder (Jun 13, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> Well...there metal on both sides of the diaphragm. ...so as long as the heights match...can't imagine it'll be a problem...one side llike like a button...the other side looks like a wagon wheel. ...I'm gonna try wagon wheel up this am and see if it tunes


Cool. I'm interested to hear how you make out.


----------



## Paragon Builder (Jun 13, 2015)

Paragon Builder said:


> Ok I see. So my gasket was .030 which set me at .039.
> So you would take .019 off the case to retain gasket.
> Cool


Question. Why mill the case if the squish is small enough without gasket? A few different gasket thicknesses hanging around and you would be good.


----------



## Mattyo (Jun 13, 2015)

typical gaskets I've found are around .016 and .017 ish.... the stock squish with gasket is .043 so I've seen. so I take off about 22 thou to be safe. 

I'm not lookin to race, just want a little extra 

base gasket delete is likely safe, but worries me a little bit...so I prefer the thought of retaining the gasket...just me. 

saw started right up, clutch slipped a bit and wanted to come off, so it wouldn't idle. put the clutch back on a little more firmly and now its fine...cuts nice too. fuel is drained, saw is now part of my collection


----------



## Paragon Builder (Jun 13, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> typical gaskets I've found are around .016 and .017 ish.... the stock squish with gasket is .043 so I've seen. so I take off about 22 thou to be safe.
> 
> I'm not lookin to race, just want a little extra
> 
> ...


Sweet! That's the beauty. Many different ways to achieve the same goals!


----------



## Agrarian (Jun 13, 2015)

I like playing sleuth with the 262's and this one is interesting. It doesn't have a compression release (early saw) yet the rear handle does not have the storage compartment (later saw) - a combination I have not seen on an all original saw. The chainbrake is metal and looks brand new (later saw unless someone took advantage of the recall). Is this an early (maybe KS) cylinder on a more recent chassis or do you have a new (to me) variant of an original combination?


----------



## Mattyo (Jun 13, 2015)

I think this is a KS cylinder....the handle of a later saw is likely correct too...most of my saws are a mishmash... this has a 120 carb and a 3 puck clutch ...if I recall it has a oem piston with new caber...and a new oem chainbrake


----------



## Agrarian (Jun 13, 2015)

I'm the same way but so far have been lucky enough to always use a 261/262 cylinder. I've never thrown the bucks at a new chain brake though - that must have been expensive! I try to be patient and wait for a parts machine to appear in Craigslist or eBay rather paying for individual assemblies.


----------



## Mattyo (Jun 13, 2015)

I picked up a couple oem chainbrakes for reasonable $$ ... when I saw them, I knew I had to have them... 

the last parts saw I bought cost me over $200 ... good news is that the compression is 170 on that thing stock, and that'll be the one I build next.


----------



## rynosawr (Jun 15, 2015)

Hey gang,

I have what is confirmed as a 262xp, but it is missing the serial # plate. I got it as part of a trade.

I am going to see what cylinder it has.

It runs dang good as is and is scratched up a little, but I am trying to decide if I should keep or sell.

What is a fair price to ask for one of these with medium-low hours with stock piston and cylinder in great shape and everything good and saw functioning well?


----------



## bryanr2 (Jun 15, 2015)

rynosawr said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> I have what is confirmed as a 262xp, but it is missing the serial # plate. I got it as part of a trade.
> 
> ...



Detailed pics are needed to determine a estimate on value. Unless you have more than one of them, I wouldnt sell it.


----------



## Agrarian (Jun 15, 2015)

You said it was confirmed - based on the parts it has (top cover stickers, starter sticker, 3 shoe clutch, flat top piston)? Whenever I hear that the serial number tag is missing, I think that someone has re-purposed a 257 or 261 because it is odd that it would be missing. With pictures we would be able to narrow down its production date too.


----------



## rynosawr (Jun 15, 2015)

Agrarian said:


> You said it was confirmed - based on the parts it has (top cover stickers, starter sticker, 3 shoe clutch, flat top piston)? Whenever I hear that the serial number tag is missing, I think that someone has re-purposed a 257 or 261 because it is odd that it would be missing. With pictures we would be able to narrow down its production date too.




Yes Sir,

Top Cover sticker is 262xp, starter is non-matching and is a 261 sticker on it, has the 3 shoe clutch, and the little compartment for tools in the bottom of the handle which is supposed to be a feature only found on very early 262xp's. 

I will try and get some pics of the cylinder base and carb if possible today or the next few days.

It was used by a homeowner who started doing a little tree cleanup service around town and it looks like it has a scratched bottom plate from riding around in the bed of the truck. This guy preferred Stihl saws apparently.... haha.


----------



## Mattyo (Jun 15, 2015)

Compression #?

Carb type 87 120 144?

All parts oem?

All parts functional?

Pics...

All these will help determine value


----------



## Tor R (Jun 15, 2015)

rynosawr said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> I have what is confirmed as a 262xp, but it is missing the serial # plate. I got it as part of a trade.
> 
> ...


These are the familiar characters I always look for:
Close HL needles are the HDA, just across states one number, eg 87, 120, 144.
Cylinder right side, KolbenSchmidt are like two dolar sign, Mahle is the second type of OEM cylinder, write down the numbers in front of those signs, it's easy to confirm the type of cylinder you have by those things.
From 90-92 should be a KS cylinder, 92-94 there was no system if it were Mahle or KS, to make it a bit more complicated there was also a batch Mahle (withouth decomp valve) there.
94 or later Mahle with decomp valve.


----------



## Agrarian (Jun 15, 2015)

rynosawr said:


> Yes Sir,
> 
> Top Cover sticker is 262xp, starter is non-matching and is a 261 sticker on it, has the 3 shoe clutch, and the little compartment for tools in the bottom of the handle which is supposed to be a feature only found on very early 262xp's.



I have an original 1994 262xp and it has the small compartment. I think that was the last year to have it. If you remove the sparkplug and shine a light in there, check if the top of the piston is flat. If so, it has a 262 piston because a 261 piston has a dished top. The only other significant difference is that the 261 muffler was more restricted. There should be a part number stamped into it that would tell you.

Now if it were really early, it could have a Kolbenschmidt cylinder (no decompression valve) and an HDA-87 carburetor. The HDA-87 is the holy grail of the 262 carbs so if it has either (or both) of these, the price goes up.

BTW, the sticker for the starter is still available so if this is truly a 262, you can complete the saw with a low dollar upgrade.


----------



## Agrarian (Jun 15, 2015)

Tor R said:


> Close HL needles are the HDA, just across states one number, eg 87, 120, 144.



What Tor R is saying is that the model number of the Walbro HDA carb (the only carb ever used) is stamped into the carb body to the left of the High and Low adjustment needle screws and is visible if the whole top cover is removed.

The 262 I am working on now has a Mahle cylinder with no decompression yet the casting has a location for it. They just did not drill and tap it.


----------



## rynosawr (Jun 16, 2015)

Ok,

I had 5 minutes today to pull the carb and try and get some pics of what I have here....

I can't tell what cylinder it is, but there is no decompression.

Looks like an HDA 120 carb

The piston and cylinder look awesome, but I don't have a compression gauge yet so I can't tell any numbers.

Are these pics sufficient or do I need to pull the flywheel?


----------



## Tor R (Jun 16, 2015)

The labeling is similar to Mahle cylinders that were used on 262, and that's what I think you have also, fit also to the HDA 120.
On the other side it should be: Mahle 48ZK or 48ZK3 or 48ZN15.
I have all those three types Mahle, 48ZK3 wasnt prepared at all for decomp valve, 93 week 6 saw.
When I study the 262 mark and comparing against them I have, I think you're going to find 48ZK3 or 48ZK. 

262 is marked on the middle of the foot on those 48ZN15 that I have.

My guess is that your 262 is a 93-94 model.


----------



## Agrarian (Jun 16, 2015)

If it is a Kolbenschmidt cylinder, I think their symbol may be on the exact opposite side of the cylinder - looks like a 'K' sitting on top of an 'S'. Mahle puts their name and model number on the side you took pictures of so I don't believe it is theirs. I don't recognise the symbol in the picture but it clearly says 262 in the first pic.

The carb is not the much coveted HDA-87 but is consistent with the 262 as opposed to a 261 which, on all the ones I've seen, have used the 144.
The cylinder below is a 262 Kolbenschmidt from one I am working on and you can see the KS symbol on the left. This is the clutch side of the cylinder.


----------



## SawTroll (Jun 16, 2015)

Agrarian said:


> What is the earliest 262 that you guys have? I have one with serial #0070070 - so the 7th week of 1990 and the 70th saw that week. Since 1990 was the first production year, this was fairly early.



The first production year was 1989, but the first "catalog year" likely was 1990.

The lowest serial number I have seen (pictures of) starts with 926.


----------



## Tor R (Jun 16, 2015)

Agrarian said:


> Mahle puts their name and model number on the side you took pictures of so I don't believe it is theirs. I don't recognise the symbol in the picture but it clearly says 262 in the first pic.


Nope, KS/Mahle have their sign on the same side.


----------



## Agrarian (Jun 16, 2015)

Tor R said:


> Nope, KS/Mahle have their sign on the same side.



Maybe it is different in Europe? I have 11 262's with the split being about 8 having Mahle cylinders and 3 having KS cylinders. All eight of my Mahle's have the "Mahle" and part number on the flywheel side. All three of my KS cylinders have the "KS" on the clutch side. 

Below are the pictures of the 262 cylinders I have from my project saws. They show what I said above.


----------



## SawTroll (Jun 16, 2015)

Tor R said:


> Nope, KS/Mahle have their sign on the same side.




Not always, as I recall it - actually I believe they mostly don't?


----------



## wcorey (Jun 16, 2015)

There's also this option...


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## rynosawr (Jun 16, 2015)

I didn't run a compression check because that is one of the tools I am waiting on buying a good one.....

I think I may just pull the cylinder for posterity sake (and identification) and probably throw a new ring on the piston as well to make sure she is good and fresh!!!


----------



## SawTroll (Jun 16, 2015)

wcorey said:


> There's also this option...



Yes, but those don't pop up very often. Is there any more numbers on that cylinder, or is it only 342?

Does it have a decomp valve, or not?


----------



## skippysphins (Jun 16, 2015)

wcorey said:


> There's also this option...


Was that a stock or aftermarket option


----------



## wcorey (Jun 16, 2015)

No decomp, haven't had the cylinder off so can't see if there are other numbers on the sides of the base flange.


----------



## SawTroll (Jun 16, 2015)

wcorey said:


> No decomp, haven't had the cylinder off so can't see if there are other numbers on the sides of the base flange.



Thanks, and 1991 week 43 is consistent with no decomp.


----------



## SawTroll (Jun 16, 2015)

skippysphins said:


> Was that a stock or aftermarket option



I have never heard of Gilardoni cylinders being sold as aftermarket, they are in the same quality range as Mahle and KS.


----------



## rynosawr (Jun 17, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> I have never heard of Gilardoni cylinders being sold as aftermarket, they are in the same quality range as Mahle and KS.



Yep, I had an early Stihl MS441 carb'd saw with a factory Gilardoni cylinder, so they are OEM suppliers to several saw manufacturers


----------



## SawTroll (Jun 17, 2015)

rynosawr said:


> Yep, I had an early Stihl MS441 carb'd saw with a factory Gilardoni cylinder, so they are OEM suppliers to several saw manufacturers



Lots of "strato" saws have Gilardoni cylinders, and there are nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Tor R (Jun 17, 2015)

Agrarian said:


> Maybe it is different in Europe? I have 11 262's with the split being about 8 having Mahle cylinders and 3 having KS cylinders. All eight of my Mahle's have the "Mahle" and part number on the flywheel side. All three of my KS cylinders have the "KS" on the clutch side.
> 
> Below are the pictures of the 262 cylinders I have from my project saws. They show what I said above.
> 
> ...


my mistake on the 48ZN15, you have totally correct there.
48ZK3 though have the number on the same side as KS. It also have the 262 number close to one of the screw.
Will post pictures when I get home from work today


----------



## Tor R (Jun 17, 2015)




----------



## Agrarian (Jun 17, 2015)

Tor R said:


> my mistake on the 48ZN15, you have totally correct there.
> 48ZK3 though have the number on the same side as KS. It also have the 262 number close to one of the screw.
> Will post pictures when I get home from work today



I am not familiar with this cylinder model. When was it used?


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## Tor R (Jun 17, 2015)

Agrarian said:


> I am not familiar with this cylinder model. When was it used?


this one is from year 93 week 6.
I have one with same label but with decomp valve year 94 week 24.
I will take some better pictures when I am home of those two.


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## Tor R (Jun 17, 2015)

For those who are interested, here is how my three different Mahle cylinders looks:


year 93, week 6:









Year 94, week 24:









Year 95 or newer (95,96,98, brand new) same number:


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## rynosawr (Jun 17, 2015)

These are mine. Cylinder and piston are perfect, probably install a new ring on it .... Caber or factory husky recommended?


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## rattler362 (Jun 17, 2015)

I use Caber


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## Agrarian (Jun 17, 2015)

Yeah, I have never heard where a Husky ring was any better than Caber.


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## VinceGU05 (Jun 29, 2015)

what sort of muffler mod you doing on these 262's Randy?


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## Mattyo (Jul 17, 2015)

I was confused as to how to replace the flywheel side seal... so I went for it, and here is my video.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2015)

VinceGU05 said:


> what sort of muffler mod you doing on these 262's Randy?



Just open everything under the factory deflector.


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## PA Dan (Jul 17, 2015)

Heres what I did! I replace all my spark screen with 14 mesh screen.


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## PA Dan (Jul 17, 2015)

My carb grommet came today so maybe I can finally get this saw tuned and see what all the fuss is about! Still cant figure out how to put the chain brake parts back in the clutch cover!


----------



## glock37 (Jul 18, 2015)

You just got to keep tell yourself dan im smarter than this chain brake over and over youll get it lol lol 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Mattyo (Jul 18, 2015)

Did a little grinding in the dental office today. ..upper transfers now at 118


----------



## Paragon Builder (Jul 18, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> Did a little grinding in the dental office today. ..upper transfers now at 118 View attachment 436582


Looks great!
You going to dive in and go for some bridges and fingers?


----------



## Mattyo (Jul 18, 2015)

nope.... don't want to mess it up ... plus there's no way I can do as good as Randy. 

this one will be for sale soon hopefully, so I don't want to get too fancy and risk messing it up


----------



## mdavlee (Jul 18, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> nope.... don't want to mess it up ... plus there's no way I can do as good as Randy.
> 
> this one will be for sale soon hopefully, so I don't want to get too fancy and risk messing it up


I'm sure you'd do fine.


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## Mattyo (Jul 18, 2015)

actually takes quite a bit of time to do what I do in the dental office... my diamonds are small ... and my drill is not super powerful enough to go through aluminum quickly ... so it probably took me 45 minutes just to do this. I have no clue how to measure for fingers or bridges... but thanks for the vote of confidence. if I was doing this more often and had less to lose I think I'd venture out a bit ... saws have become way too time consuming for me, so I'm trying to finish up a couple projects and sell them on, then I can organize the rest of my crap ... I have all the saws i need at this point... so now its just about recouping some of my investment


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## PA Dan (Jul 18, 2015)

glock37 said:


> You just got to keep tell yourself dan im smarter than this chain brake over and over youll get it lol lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hey Mike your much smarter than me so ill drop it off and you can tell it your smarter![emoji41]


----------



## Welder56 (Jul 19, 2015)

Love this thread. What a good read. Maybe I should consider building one out of all the parts I have. Have a nice KS jug too boot.

254xp comes first though 

I find it interesting that a 254 gets overlooked as a ripper. A few friends of mine have Em and they scream stock. As far as I can tell the crank, top end, and top cover are different. But mostly the same chassis as a 262 and they share alot of the same parts. Love to see a comparison of the two.


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## PA Dan (Jul 21, 2015)

Are there different carb grommets for the different carbs that came on 262's? After my rebuild on my newly aquired 262 I couldn't find the grommet. I found one on my bench and it kind of fit. I cut a few sections off it so it would fit in the case. Last week I ordered a new one and when it came it was the same as the one I chopped!


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## Agrarian (Jul 21, 2015)

There at least a couple of varieties of this part. I've seen the black rubbery ones that the gas tends to eat up, and ones that are designed for the current EPA'ed Walbro HDA-144A on the 261. I have had to modify the ones designed for the 144a carb to be used on a HDA-120 but otherwise I believe they all fit. Were you ordering the 501862401 part?


----------



## PA Dan (Jul 21, 2015)

Agrarian said:


> There at least a couple of varieties of this part. I've seen the black rubbery ones that the gas tends to eat up, and ones that are designed for the current EPA'ed Walbro HDA-144A on the 261. I have had to modify the ones designed for the 144a carb to be used on a HDA-120 but otherwise I believe they all fit. Were you ordering the 501862401 part?


Yep thats the part number that was listed on the order. I have the HDA 120 carb and the idle screw has a large head and the grommet has a small hole and the recessed area just didnt match up!


----------



## sunfish (Jul 21, 2015)

Welder56 said:


> Love this thread. What a good read. Maybe I should consider building one out of all the parts I have. Have a nice KS jug too boot.
> 
> 254xp comes first though
> 
> I find it interesting that a 254 gets overlooked as a ripper. A few friends of mine have Em and they scream stock. As far as I can tell the crank, top end, and top cover are different. But mostly the same chassis as a 262 and they share alot of the same parts. Love to see a comparison of the two.


Good saw! I should have kept this one.


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## Mattyo (Aug 1, 2015)

Why does this clutch cover not fit????

I have a new old stock clutch cover....metal....has a bump that won't let it fully seat...???


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## PA Dan (Aug 1, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> Why does this clutch cover not fit????
> 
> I have a new old stock clutch cover....metal....has a bump that won't let it fully seat...???
> View attachment 438867
> ...


Did the saw originally have a metal clutch cover?


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## Mattyo (Aug 1, 2015)

who knows.... 

I was all excited to finish this one off and put it in the trading post and now my hopes are dashed... 

anyone know where I can get a plastic cover?


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## M&Rtree (Aug 1, 2015)

Cut the stud off.


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## PA Dan (Aug 1, 2015)

I got a plastic replacement for Brian Plust. I was told that the cases are specific to either plastic or metal.


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## Mattyo (Aug 1, 2015)

cut the stud off? seriously? I feel like thats sacrilege to a NOS cover... no?


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## Mattyo (Aug 1, 2015)

i've already gotten lots of stuff from brian, was hoping to not have to bug him... guess thats likely gonna happen


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## M&Rtree (Aug 1, 2015)

I cut mine off. Its under the cover. I've had multiple folks look at the saw and no one has pointed out I cut the stud off.


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## Mattyo (Aug 1, 2015)

Just to be sure....no other grinding anywhere else on the cover needed??


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## Mastermind (Aug 1, 2015)

Right, just cut the stud off. It's a newer version thing.


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## Mattyo (Aug 1, 2015)

Okaley dokaley 


Just hate to do that....look for the saw in the tp soon!


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## cgraham1 (Aug 1, 2015)

I got mine back on Friday! I haven't had a chance to try it out, since I gave my 20" 3/8 bar away when I sold my 359...


Got this back, too! Thanks, Randy!!


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## SawTroll (Aug 1, 2015)

PA Dan said:


> Did the saw originally have a metal clutch cover?



That depends on when it was made (serial number?). Saws made after some point in 1996/1997 came with metal clutch covers.


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## cgraham1 (Aug 1, 2015)

I put a metal cover on mine, and I didn't notice any interference, but I haven't tried to mount a bar on it yet.


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## Mattyo (Aug 1, 2015)

This one definitely interferes

I'll cut the nub off and see what happens

I can check the serial # but I think the clutch side case half is from another saw.... I don't remember.


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## Mattyo (Aug 1, 2015)

New problem...this plastic bumper interferes. ..so I removed it...but then I had to switch the bolts...the lower one is longer but only fits in upper hole..


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## SawTroll (Aug 1, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> New problem...this plastic bumper interferes. ..so I removed it...but then I had to switch the bolts...the lower one is longer but only fits in upper hole..


Why not just grind it down until the cover fits?

Which upper and lower bolts is this about?


----------



## Agrarian (Aug 1, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> New problem...this plastic bumper interferes. ..so I removed it...but then I had to switch the bolts...the lower one is longer but only fits in upper hole..



It belongs on the upper screw - is that where you removed it from? It is odd you have to remove it because in all of the 262's I've done it never was a problem (plastic or metal covers), nor was the little tit you had to cut off. What is the part number of the casting for the brake?


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## Mattyo (Aug 1, 2015)

I'll try it on upper...


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## SawTroll (Aug 1, 2015)

OK - now I see what "bolts" it was about....


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## Agrarian (Aug 1, 2015)

Also be careful switching bolts in this area. Longer bolts may have the possibility of breaking into the gas tank if you get too enthusiastic screwing.


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## kz1000 (Aug 1, 2015)

I'm not sure I want to send anything to the monkey, it has taken three months to do "262xp day".


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## Mattyo (Aug 1, 2015)

The plastic bumper fits fine on the upper...could have sworn the parts saw had it on the lower. Oh well. All is well...someone is gonna have fun with this saw.


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## SawTroll (Aug 1, 2015)

kz1000 said:


> I'm not sure I want to send anything to the monkey, it has taken three months to do "262xp day".



He isn't taking work at the moment, as I recall it....


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## SawTroll (Aug 1, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> The plastic bumper fits fine on the upper...could have sworn the parts saw had it on the lower. Oh well. All is well...someone is gonna have fun with this saw.View attachment 438911



You could always send it over here, pho.


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## Agrarian (Aug 1, 2015)

If you want it to look just a little better, take a heat gun to the leading edge of the top cover and flatten it out. Let it cool in the correct position and it should stay that way.


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## Mattyo (Aug 1, 2015)

Agrarian, thanks for the top tip... I'll let the next guy do that though. I've done my part fixing all the figety things on this saw that I could... now someone else can touch up if they need to. 

fyi, sawtroll.... saw is in the TP.... PHO ...


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## Mastermind (Aug 1, 2015)

kz1000 said:


> I'm not sure I want to send anything to the monkey, it has taken three months to do "262xp day".



What are you saying? 

I've done all the 262s in this thread.......and several more since this thread was posted.


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## kz1000 (Aug 1, 2015)

That was humor sir, 262 "day" 24 hours, three months of thread ---


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## Mastermind (Aug 1, 2015)

kz1000 said:


> That was humor sir, 262 "day" 24 hours, three months of thread ---



It was the "I wouldn't send anything to the monkey" that caught my attention.


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## kz1000 (Aug 1, 2015)

I'll say I'm sorry and stay out.


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## cgraham1 (Aug 1, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> What are you saying?
> 
> I've done all the 262s in this thread.......and several more since this thread was posted.


I can't wait to run mine! I have another project I want to send, as well... and I will gladly wait until you have an opening.


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## PA Dan (Aug 1, 2015)

cgraham1 said:


> I can't wait to run mine! I have another project I want to send, as well... and I will gladly wait until you have an opening.


I want a report when you do run it! I have mine almost ready for its first workout!


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## Marshy (Aug 3, 2015)

Randy, do you have a preferred carb to the HD 87 if not available? Have you tried a HD 6 or 12 that came on the 365's?


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## Mastermind (Aug 3, 2015)

I've never worried about which carb. Any of the stock carbs are fine.


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## rynosawr (Aug 3, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I've never worried about which carb. Any of the stock carbs are fine.



Hey Randy!!

I have both the HDA 87 and HDA 120 available as choices for my 262.

Have you ever ran these carbs back to back on a stock or ported saw to see if you can tell any noticeable difference?

Enjoying your threads as always and trying to decide what I should get you to port for me one day when you have an opening in your schedule.


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## Mastermind (Aug 3, 2015)

I can't tell any real differences.


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## rattler362 (Aug 3, 2015)

I have had good luck with the 144 too


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## Mattyo (Aug 11, 2015)

Speaking of carbs

this is incorrect... this is a k20 kits .... the metering diaphragm has to be upside down in order to fit... it does fit...and it does run... but it isn't right ....remember, the gasket is SUPPOSED to be against the carb, THEN the metering diaphragm, THEN the cover.




the CORRECT KIT is a k22 kit for all 262xp carbs.... 87, 120, 144 according to walbro site. notice how the metering diaphragm is mirror image.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 11, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> ....
> the CORRECT KIT is a k22 kit for all 262xp carbs.... 87, 120, 144 according to walbro site. notice how the metering diaphragm is mirror image.
> View attachment 440546



The venturi is 16.67 mm or the 87, and only 15.08 on the others - same as a stock 346xp with Walbro carb (the Zamas is listed as 15.0). I find it odd if a 16.67 carb isn't an improvement on the 262xp, when it (HDA-199 etc) allegdedly is on a 346xp (not everyone agree on that either, I believe). 

My guess is that different ways to do the porting has something to do with it - some have said they do the porting differently, based on what carb is going to be used?


----------



## Mattyo (Aug 11, 2015)

I hope you aren't asking me that question. I'm simply stating that a k20 kit metering diaphragm fits upside down, sorta, and actually runs. But the correct carb kit is a k22 for all 262xp carbs. 

Now, if we go to discuss what carbs are better, seems to be it would be best to have an 87. But just reving mine 2 262xps with a 120 carbs...they are quite snappy, so I don't know what real world gain an 87 would bring.

I don't pretend to be an authority on these saws, just trying to share what i've learned. Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement.


----------



## Landmark (Aug 11, 2015)

If you have an 87 be thankful, they are hard to find. If you don't, then don't sweat it. A ported 262 is bad to the bone with a 120 or 144.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 11, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> I hope you aren't asking me that question. ......



Not at all, just pointing out that there is no consensus on the matter - the answers depends on who you ask.


----------



## Mattyo (Aug 11, 2015)

Well, lets hope someone with more knowledge than me shows up and answers the question


----------



## drf255 (Aug 11, 2015)

Is the main jet removable or amenable to drilling out on a 120/144?

There was a post I ran across here where someone bored out a 120/144 to 87 specs. Cut larger throttle and choke butterflies off of a drilled and lathe sized brass bar.


----------



## rattler362 (Aug 11, 2015)

I think here is what you are looking for.


----------



## rattler362 (Aug 11, 2015)

super3 is the poster


----------



## Agrarian (Aug 11, 2015)

drf255 said:


> Is the main jet removable or amenable to drilling out on a 120/144?
> 
> There was a post I ran across here where someone bored out a 120/144 to 87 specs. Cut larger throttle and choke butterflies off of a drilled and lathe sized brass bar.



The main jet is replaceable on all of these carbs by pressing the old one out and a new one in. If you go to the Walbro website you can get the replacement jet part numbers. I don't believe you can modify their jet size though because they also incorporate a valve that prevents pressure from entering the carb when the butterfly is suddenly closed.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 12, 2015)

rattler362 said:


> I think here is what you are looking for.



You actually need to know where you can, and where you can't grind out material - just drilling them out will destroy most carbs....


----------



## drf255 (Aug 12, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> You actually need to know where you can, and where you can't grind out material - just drilling them out will destroy most carbs....


You mentioned sizes in your earlier posting.

Were those throttle bore size or venturi size?


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 12, 2015)

drf255 said:


> You mentioned sizes in your earlier posting.
> 
> Were those throttle bore size or venturi size?



Venturi size.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 12, 2015)

Marshy said:


> Randy, do you have a preferred carb to the HD 87 if not available? Have you tried a HD 6 or 12 that came on the 365's?



The 87 is a HDA - but the question is a good one!


----------



## Landmark (Aug 12, 2015)

Somebody needs to post a video of a 262 running a hda-87 and then same saw with 120 or 144 or both. I would love to see the real time comparison.


----------



## rattler362 (Aug 12, 2015)

Agreed I would but I don't have one Dave I think all I have is a 87 vid.


----------



## Mattyo (Aug 14, 2015)

Is it possible for a clutch spring to be stretched out such that the chain keeps moving even when the saw is at idle


----------



## mdavlee (Aug 14, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> Is it possible for a clutch spring to be stretched out such that the chain keeps moving even when the saw is at idle


Yes


----------



## Mattyo (Aug 14, 2015)

Should I attempt to fix said spring....or just buy new? ...hmmm


----------



## PA Dan (Aug 14, 2015)

Buy a new one there cheap! I bought one because I sent mine flying across the yard when I fired the 262 up for the first time. The second time I made sure to put the clutch cover on.


----------



## Mattyo (Aug 14, 2015)

My problem is that every 8 dollar part also usually comes with a 7 dollar shipping charge ...so I end up buying two of everything just to make it cost effective. ..drives me nuts..
And I have too many parts


----------



## PA Dan (Aug 14, 2015)

I think I got mine on ebay. Oem part $6-$8 free shipping.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 14, 2015)

It's time to see what the fuss is all about with these 262XPs. I just picked up a really nice one tonight off Craiglist. I had to drive a whole 10 miles to get it, lol. I'll get some pics tomorrow. I've already had it all apart, cleaned it up, and got it back together. BTW, it has the HDA 120 carb.


----------



## Mattyo (Aug 14, 2015)

Would have been happy to ship one of mine for you to fiddle with...glad you found a nice one though


----------



## Agrarian (Aug 15, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> My problem is that every 8 dollar part also usually comes with a 7 dollar shipping charge ...



These typically are stocked by your local dealer although if it is a 3-shoe I'm not sure how widely that spring was used so it may not be as common.


----------



## super3 (Aug 15, 2015)

landmark said:


> Somebody needs to post a video of a 262 running a hda-87 and then same saw with 120 or 144 or both. I would love to see the real time comparison.



I'm working on it! Keep getting sidetracked.


----------



## drf255 (Aug 15, 2015)

Randy,

Any reason you curve your finger ports instead of going straight from the lower transfer?

Is it just because of what room you have to speak with in the jug, or does the curve serve a purpose?


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 15, 2015)

Glad to see someone finally ask. 

I like the port to end up as straight as possible in the area that will be above the piston. Also I think that ring wear will be less if the port sides are parallel with the bore.


----------



## sunfish (Aug 15, 2015)

Guess I need to dig out the old 262xp and work it over real good.


----------



## mdavlee (Aug 15, 2015)

The curved fingers are what DC,Tom Fales Jr, and a few other old timers did. I wish the archives had survived race saw s. There was a lot of info on finger ports and race saw timing.


----------



## VinceGU05 (Aug 19, 2015)

Can anyone tell me what vintage my saw is so I can use the right IPL. Thanks.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 19, 2015)

VinceGU05 said:


> Can anyone tell me what vintage my saw is so I can use the right IPL. Thanks.



1992 week 17.

Remember that IPL dates don't always correspond exactly with production changes - and parts could have been swapped out on older saws, mostly with newer parts, but some times with older. Often the older and newer parts interchange, but not always...


----------



## VinceGU05 (Aug 19, 2015)

Ok thanks. Well at least I can step in the right direction now [emoji106]


----------



## drf255 (Aug 28, 2015)

Randy,

With the low intake and great case pressure, coupled with bridges and fingers to increase flow/decrease restriction/increase cross sectional area of the uppers, why do you go with a 15* blowdown?

The fingers look a bit higher than the upper mains in the photos.

Are you using the factory research of what worked for them to base your changes upon?

Granted, the factory has much more time and money to devote to R&D than anyone else.

I'd imagine with all the flow increase you've created, coupled with the great case pressure, one could run a numerically higher (physically lower) transfer circuit and get better charge filling and less charge dilution. But I guess the factory decided on a low blowdown for a reason with the design.

It appears that you've created a poor man's quad port, but maintained a 2 port's transfer height here.


----------



## drf255 (Aug 28, 2015)

The transfer tops are also much physically closer to the top of the exhaust port than they are before the SB cut and jug drop at the same blowdown amount as before the cut. 

Is this just a situation where reality trumps theory?


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 28, 2015)

drf255 said:


> Randy,
> 
> With the low intake and great case pressure, coupled with bridges and fingers to increase flow/decrease restriction/increase cross sectional area of the uppers, why do you go with a 15* blowdown?
> 
> ...



The fingers open 2° ahead of the mains to help push the exhaust out. That allows the higher transfer to work without as much dilution. Also, keep in mind that the transfer passage design has wide open tunnels that will be lazy.......yet another reason for higher transfers. 



drf255 said:


> The transfer tops are also much physically closer to the top of the exhaust port than they are before the SB cut and jug drop at the same blowdown amount as before the cut.
> 
> Is this just a situation where reality trumps theory?



Not following you here........but I think you are referring to the bigger jump in degree wheel numbers on the transfers, than what you see in change on the exhaust. This is just because of where the port are in relation to crank/rod angle.


----------



## drf255 (Aug 28, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> The fingers open 2° ahead of the mains to help push the exhaust out. That allows the higher transfer to work without as much dilution. Also, keep in mind that the transfer passage design has wide open tunnels that will be lazy.......yet another reason for higher transfers.
> 
> 
> 
> Not following you here........but I think you are referring to the bigger jump in degree wheel numbers on the transfers, than what you see in change on the exhaust. This is just because of where the port are in relation to crank/rod angle.


The actual millimeter difference in distance between 15* BD should be much less the more you lower the jug, because of rod angle and piston speed. I just lowered a jug .039 on a 262. The ex roof now at 108, but the transfers are at 130-132 with the same drop.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the entire thing. So an asymmetric upper transfer with small directionally placed lip towards the intake side could conceivably create a similar effect to fingers for a guy who is less skilled (as I am).


----------



## Mattyo (Nov 5, 2015)

Got another 262xp on the bench, this one's PERTY... very little wear, but low comp... 90. Stuck ring. The transfer extends over to the decomp valve... so i'm thinkin its the decomp... what you guys think?


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 5, 2015)

A leaky decomp rarely scores a saw. Now the A/T saws like the 562XP score like that pretty easy because they run pretty lean as is. I'd just replace the seals and other rubber bits. After all, it's an old saw.


----------



## Mattyo (Nov 5, 2015)

will do, bearings feel good... just find it odd that the transfer is on one side, and so specifically STOPS at the decomp opening


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 5, 2015)

Meh........just a coincidence.


----------



## Mattyo (Nov 5, 2015)

man, i really thought i was on to something.... oh well ....time to go pop in some seals!


----------



## Northerner (Nov 6, 2015)

Has the saw in question been sitting for an extended period of time? If so, do the bearings too. 
I just learned the hard way on a 55. Saw had been sitting for an unknown amount of time but the bearings "felt" good when I had it apart. 
Well, today I took the saw for a test run, not 5 minutes later the clutch side bearing blew......aaarrrggghhh!

Worst part was, I knew I should have done them right away....


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## Mattyo (Nov 6, 2015)

case is seperated... will pull bearings when I can. have this CT GTG in the way of getting this saw done


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## Mattyo (Nov 20, 2015)

case is decked....now to get some timing numbers and do some porting


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## SquareFile (Nov 20, 2015)

Will your 262xp's be faster than your 346's?


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## Mattyo (Nov 20, 2015)

Haven't done a 346....have done a few 350's though.


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## SquareFile (Nov 20, 2015)

Mattyo said:


> Haven't done a 346....have done a few 350's though.



I was referring to the op, my mistake.


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## VinceGU05 (Nov 23, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> 1992 week 17.
> 
> Remember that IPL dates don't always correspond exactly with production changes - and parts could have been swapped out on older saws, mostly with newer parts, but some times with older. Often the older and newer parts interchange, but not always...



welp i had a look and i have the KS jug and 87 carby!! do i win a price


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## SawTroll (Nov 23, 2015)

VinceGU05 said:


> welp i had a look and i have the KS jug and 87 carby!! do i win a price



You already have the price!


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## Mattyo (Nov 24, 2015)

Did the transfers here in the dental office....





Didn't need to remove much to get to 122 timing. Just extended towards the intake slightly too...nuthin too silly


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## Paragon Builder (Nov 24, 2015)

Did you schedule them in? Assistants help?[emoji23] 
Sup Matt?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Paragon Builder (Nov 24, 2015)

How do the dental tools work for you?


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## Mattyo (Nov 24, 2015)

After hours work 

High speed works well...But I need more types of polishers....it takes time but ideal for detail work


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## MustangMike (Nov 24, 2015)

Now, when you tell your patients that their intake is too low, or you are gonna raise their transfers, do they get nervous???


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## Mattyo (Nov 24, 2015)

Silly question 
...they are all nervous


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## VinceGU05 (Nov 27, 2015)

Looks like my 262 is going to enjoy its first white Xmas 23 years. All packed up in its suitcase, TN bound [emoji16]

Sent from my iStihl.


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## redfin (Dec 9, 2015)

Good thread to ask probably an easy one for some. I went today to get a new style oil cap for my 262. Dealer didnt see where these are abailable? Anyone have a part number if avaiable?


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## SawTroll (Dec 9, 2015)

redfin said:


> Good thread to ask probably an easy one for some. I went today to get a new style oil cap for my 262. Dealer didnt see where these are abailable? Anyone have a part number if avaiable?



Well, both caps are 522 62 00-01 on the 562xp, while the (presumably smaller) oil cap for the 550xp is 577 87 86-01 (fuel cap is as on the 562).

I don't know if those fits the 262xp, but suspect they do?


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## Agrarian (Dec 9, 2015)

redfin said:


> Good thread to ask probably an easy one for some. I went today to get a new style oil cap for my 262. Dealer didnt see where these are abailable? Anyone have a part number if avaiable?


*501765602 * is the Husky number you want, ~$6.75 online + shipping. There are several aftermarket caps too at reduced prices.


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## redfin (Dec 9, 2015)

Thanks to you both.


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## SawTroll (Dec 9, 2015)

redfin said:


> Thanks to you both.



Where is @spike60? I'm sure he will know if and which new caps fit the 262.


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## Landmark (Feb 5, 2016)

Gonna miss the monkey. Wish mh saw had been in on this day. Bump for a great thread if thats ok


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## Tor R (Feb 5, 2016)

It's a classic thread, probleby the best ever on AS.
I think I've read it 10 times, wish I had his skilles!


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## procarbine2k1 (Feb 5, 2016)

Landmark said:


> Gonna miss the monkey. Wish mh saw had been in on this day. Bump for a great thread if thats ok



I know its hard man, but you can always talk to him on ***. Just think of the good times..


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## procarbine2k1 (Feb 5, 2016)

Just got censored for saying ***


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## Landmark (Feb 5, 2016)

procarbine2k1 said:


> I know its hard man, but you can always talk to him on ***. Just think of the good times..


Already do. Ha


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## VinceGU05 (Feb 6, 2016)

Got my saw back from its first white Xmas. Ready to smash some trees. [emoji16]


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## Stihlofadeal64 (Feb 6, 2016)

Landmark said:


> Gonna miss the monkey. Wish mh saw had been in on this day. Bump for a great thread if thats ok


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## Sepia (Jun 27, 2017)

I thought I would resurrect this thread as there is a lot of good info in it, and also because I have a couple 262XP cylinders sitting on my desk. One is a non-decomp Mahle from a 1993 saw, and the other is a decomp Mahle from a 1998 saw, and there are notable differences in the two. The 1993 cylinder has much wider transfer tunnels than the 1998. The 1998 has noticeably taller/bigger upper transfer ports. Lowers are the same size on both. The intake port is shorter and wider on the 1998 cylinder, and is located lower in the cylinder, indicating more duration on the newer cylinder. The exhaust port is taller and is higher in the 1998 cylinder, indicating more duration there as well. The transfers on the 1998 are much higher, indicating a shorter blowdown compared to the 1993 cylinder.

Now the question here is; why were these changes made? !993 was the first year for the smaller venturi carb (HDA120 vs. HDA87). Did the Husqvarna engineers discover they needed more duration and shorter blowdown to get the same performance from the smaller HDA120 equipped saw as the previous HDA87 equipped saws?


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## David Young (Jun 27, 2017)

CJ Brown said:


> I thought I would resurrect this thread as there is a lot of good info in it, and also because I have a couple 262XP cylinders sitting on my desk. One is a non-decomp Mahle from a 1993 saw, and the other is a decomp Mahle from a 1998 saw, and there are notable differences in the two. The 1993 cylinder has much wider transfer tunnels than the 1998. The 1998 has noticeably taller/bigger upper transfer ports. Lowers are the same size on both. The intake port is shorter and wider on the 1998 cylinder, and is located lower in the cylinder, indicating more duration on the newer cylinder. The exhaust port is taller and is higher in the 1998 cylinder, indicating more duration there as well. The transfers on the 1998 are much higher, indicating a shorter blowdown compared to the 1993 cylinder.
> 
> Now the question here is; why were these changes made? !993 was the first year for the smaller venturi carb (HDA120 vs. HDA87). Did the Husqvarna engineers discover they needed more duration and shorter blowdown to get the same performance from the smaller HDA120 equipped saw as the previous HDA87 equipped saws?




What if it was the other way around, they changed the porting and needed less carb?

most of the time changes are made for the betterment of emissions.


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## Sepia (Jun 27, 2017)

David Young said:


> What if it was the other way around, they changed the porting and needed less carb?
> 
> most of the time changes are made for the betterment of emissions.


The porting changes came some time after the carb change, but still could be related to emissions. However, I would think that longer durations would result in more spit back through the carb, and more raw fuel exiting the exhaust port.


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## David Young (Jun 27, 2017)

CJ Brown said:


> The porting changes came some time after the carb change, but still could be related to emissions. However, I would think that longer durations would result in more spit back through the carb, and more raw fuel exiting the exhaust port.


spit back happens when the base is full. so a smaller carb requires more time to deliver the same quantity. 
Also remember the formula for figuring the area of a circle (venturi) is dependent on the square of the radius. The increase is not linear.

It is odd that the blowdown was shortened but may be due to a change in case compression. more often you will see a increase in blowdown but the muffler opening/ restriction plays a role as well.


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## Sepia (Jun 27, 2017)

I will have to have a look inside the two mufflers to see if the hole in the baffle under the deflector changed in size. It could be that the newer saw has a more restrictive muffler.

I also have 1990 and a 1991 saws that will be coming apart at some point, and I am curious to see if the KS cylinders are different than the first Mahle cylinders.


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## David Young (Jun 27, 2017)

Dr Al,
has some other photos from various 262's, maybe we can summon him.
@drf255 

Im looking forward to seeing what you find out.


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## El Moobs (Jun 27, 2017)

Who is this Mastermind guy and where did he go?


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## Sepia (Jun 27, 2017)

I heard he loaded up the truck and moved to Tennessee


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## El Moobs (Jun 27, 2017)

CJ Brown said:


> I heard he loaded up the truck and moved to Tennessee



Hrumph........flippin slacker.


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## Sepia (Jun 27, 2017)

Maybe if you unlock the door to his shop, he can get back in and get back to work!

Just an idea...


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## David Young (Jun 27, 2017)

El Moobs said:


> Who is this Mastermind guy and where did he go?



You will know him if you see him. He looks like a potato with platinum fuzz all over and two legs that look like toothpicks.


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## Sepia (Jun 27, 2017)

David Young said:


> You will know him if you see him. He looks like a potato with platinum fuzz all over and two legs that look like toothpicks.


I'm thinking you two are either best friends or worst enemies lol


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## MustangMike (Jun 27, 2017)

David Young said:


> most of the time changes are made for the betterment of emissions.



Exactly what I was going to say.


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## Sepia (Jun 27, 2017)

I checked the mufflers and they are identical. Maybe this Fall I can compare a stock 1990 with the 87 carb and KS cylinder, to the 1993 with the Mahle cylinder that has the large transfers, and to the 1998 with the Mahle cylinder and narrow transfers - all with the same bar/chain and see if there is any performance differences.


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## El Moobs (Jun 27, 2017)

David Young said:


> You will know him if you see him. He looks like a potato with platinum fuzz all over and two legs that look like toothpicks.



Mmmm platinum......


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## drf255 (Jun 28, 2017)

CJ Brown said:


> I thought I would resurrect this thread as there is a lot of good info in it, and also because I have a couple 262XP cylinders sitting on my desk. One is a non-decomp Mahle from a 1993 saw, and the other is a decomp Mahle from a 1998 saw, and there are notable differences in the two. The 1993 cylinder has much wider transfer tunnels than the 1998. The 1998 has noticeably taller/bigger upper transfer ports. Lowers are the same size on both. The intake port is shorter and wider on the 1998 cylinder, and is located lower in the cylinder, indicating more duration on the newer cylinder. The exhaust port is taller and is higher in the 1998 cylinder, indicating more duration there as well. The transfers on the 1998 are much higher, indicating a shorter blowdown compared to the 1993 cylinder.
> 
> Now the question here is; why were these changes made? !993 was the first year for the smaller venturi carb (HDA120 vs. HDA87). Did the Husqvarna engineers discover they needed more duration and shorter blowdown to get the same performance from the smaller HDA120 equipped saw as the previous HDA87 equipped saws?


Did you time the ports or are these just visual observations? It would be interesting to know the results. 

I've only ported maybe 10 262. Moobs would know more.

As for the intake port, I'd say it's tough for it to be wider because the threaded holes for the carb mounts are in the same place. Easy to grind through for sure. I've measured the intake port and found that's there is no need to widen it at all, I just drop the floor a bit. There is already more area to the inner port opening than the outer port opening or the 87 Venturi. The floor always winds up around 73-74 after the machine work on every jug I've done. Stock, all have been 71, no gasket. 

Exhaust port, I've never noticed a difference. The piston has skirts a mile long. I can't remember if the piston crown drops below the exhaust port at BDC right now. I'm pretty sure it doesn't, because one could lower the floor if it did and I never was tempted to do so.

Everyone says that the KS transfers are wider and bigger than the Mahle. I'm not so sure if it's actually true or not. The KS jugs I've been around (all model including Stihl) are a harder and brighter/less staining aluminum alloy. Many times it looks like the ports are bigger, but the brightness of the alloy created an illusion for me. They were the same. The KS just stain less.

The only 262 I've been around that has very wide external transfer tunnels was the Mahle Decomp that I used in the Christmas saw. It needed to be clearanced externally to miss the flywheel. 

Wish I had more for you guys. Pretty sure I have a Mahle decomp and a KS here that I can take pics of.


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## Sepia (Jun 28, 2017)

Here is a pic of the transfers. The 1993 cyl is on the left, the 1998 on the right. The flash makes it hard to see the difference in the tunnel widths, but the 1998 is about 1/8" narrower. You can also see the 1998 upper transfer ports are much larger than the 1993. 



All my observations were made by measuring ports and port placement with calipers. Multiple measurements were made to ensure accuracy, then recorded. Intake and exhaust port measurements were taken at both the cyl wall, and the external faces. I also measured the cylinder depth at multiple locations on the 2 cylinders, with the variance between the 2 cylinders being .004" (2.796" vs. 2.800") The squish band-to-base measurement was consistent on both cylinders regardless of where measured.

Exhaust ports on both cylinders were within .010" in both height and width at the exit. The 1998 cylinder was .017" narrower and .021" taller at the cylinder wall.

The intake port on the 1998 was .018" narrower and .020" shorter at the inlet. It was .072" wider and .010" shorter at the cyl wall.

I am going to be away for close to 2 weeks but when I get back I will bolt these cylinders on and set the squish by shimming so they are both the same, then get some timing numbers. I am sure that will mean more to porting guys than my measurements.


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## drf255 (Jun 28, 2017)

Awesome work buddy. 

I'm not some sure bigger tunnels make more power. 

Very confusing


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## drf255 (Jun 29, 2017)

CJ Brown said:


> Here is a pic of the transfers. The 1993 cyl is on the left, the 1998 on the right. The flash makes it hard to see the difference in the tunnel widths, but the 1998 is about 1/8" narrower. You can also see the 1998 upper transfer ports are much larger than the 1993.
> View attachment 587741
> 
> 
> ...


Timing numbers would be interesting, thanks for taking the time. 

One question, did you measure the lower transfer opening, the tunnel, or both?


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## Sepia (Jun 29, 2017)

I did measure the lower transfer opening on both cylinders and they are identical. Another observation is when looking at the external casting of the two cylinders, the 1998 is .070" wider when measuring the overall width at the transfer bulges. Also, the transfer bulges extend higher on the cylinder on the 1998 version, which matches the taller upper transfers of that cylinder. So while the transfers are narrower on the 1998, they make a wider, larger radius loop to the exit at the uppers.

I think it would be fun to swap between these two cylinders on the same saw and measure the results on a dyno to see what the engineers accomplished with these changes. I bet there is a difference in the torque curve.


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## drf255 (Jun 29, 2017)

Highly cool stuff...

I'm diggin it.


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## Paragon Builder (Jun 29, 2017)

I need to compare the 4 cylinders I have at home.


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## El Moobs (Jun 29, 2017)

drf255 said:


> Did you time the ports or are these just visual observations? It would be interesting to know the results.
> 
> I've only ported maybe 10 262. Moobs would know more.
> 
> ...



I've only seen a couple of 262XP jugs that were really different. I can't recall the real differences though Al.


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## roy wilson (Jun 30, 2017)

just read this whole post from page 1 awesome , i have a 1991 262 with original KS jug /piston and HDA 87 and a 1993 original Mahle with decomp and HDA 120 . i spent a fair bit of time rebuilding the 1991 saw , inlet block, new gaskets / carb kit /crank seals /new ring/ fuel line / rubber mounts and little scotchbrite on the cyl although it was almost like new , runs really well but seems to be a tad off kilter now and again, so it might be the carb kit issue as was posted about the diaphragm kit , i,ll pull it apart and see what i did . would like to do a bit of porting on it too but i dont think i,ll do all the timing wheel stuff ,MMWS would be nice to just get measurements of the ports i dont think i,ll attempt the finger port mods tho but how much thou raised / lowered or lowered on transfers/exhaust ?and it has the 25 though gasket i think on it so might do a squish test on it and see what it is , then maybe do a base gasket delete and 3 bond it if its still above 20 thou squish , even side by side its not much slower that my 562 , but would be fun to have a play with it


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## Paragon Builder (Jun 30, 2017)

roy wilson said:


> just read this whole post from page 1 awesome , i have a 1991 262 with original KS jug /piston and HDA 87 and a 1994 original Mahle with decomp and HDA 120 . i spent a fair bit of time rebuilding the 1991 saw , inlet block, new gaskets / carb kit /crank seals /new ring/ fuel line / rubber mounts and little scotchbrite on the cyl although it was almost like new , runs really well but seems to be a tad off kilter now and again, so it might be the carb kit issue as was posted about the diaphragm kit , i,ll pull it apart and see what i did . would like to do a bit of porting on it too but i dont think i,ll do all the timing wheel stuff ,MMWS would be nice to just get measurements of the ports i dont think i,ll attempt the finger port mods tho but how much thou raised / lowered or lowered on transfers/exhaust ?and it has the 25 though gasket i think on it so might do a squish test on it and see what it is , then maybe do a base gasket delete and 3 bond it if its still above 20 thou squish , even side by side its not much slower that my 562 , but would be fun to have a play with it



Hi Roy,
First off I have yet to see one not too tight with a base gasket delete. These saws tend to be about .08-.012 when deleted. If you have an old piston you can glue some sand paper on and get it back to as safe number. Or make your own gasket that is thinner than stock. Roof flashing was perfect on one I did.
As far as porting, if you don't want to degree Wheel it, if you can measure accurately there is software that can tell you your numbers and how much to grind to reach your goals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Johnmn (Jun 30, 2017)

My 262 is a 1991 ks hda 87. Kind of an odd ball mine is .019 squish with base delete im not sure of any more like this although I'm sure the exist or once did anywho.


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## roy wilson (Jun 30, 2017)

Paragon Builder said:


> Hi Roy,
> First off I have yet to see one not too tight with a base gasket delete. These saws tend to be about .08-.012 when deleted. If you have an old piston you can glue some sand paper on and get it back to as safe number. Or make your own gasket that is thinner than stock. Roof flashing was perfect on one I did.
> As far as porting, if you don't want to degree Wheel it, if you can measure accurately there is software that can tell you your numbers and how much to grind to reach your goals.
> 
> ...


thanks for that , i have an old 48m piston somewhere , thats a good idea if its a bit tight , i probably could do the degree wheel as i used to do valve timing on engines with them back in the day but seems complicated to figure it out , but i might try it but if i overdo it by mistake it might be not good , say i remove 1 mm of material , the timing might be way off or something thats whats worrying me , ive ported my 395 , going by measurements s i got somewhere and was much easier , pushed a ring in there , measured with my vernier , marked it with pen , then i had the dimensions , lowered the lower transfer 3mm did a little on the top transfers , removed the base gasket , widened the exhaust 1mm each side , raised it 20 thou and was all so easy compared to degree wheels but i'll see what numbers i get which are probably what MMWS posted way back , , do you know which software is easiest totry for it ?


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## Paragon Builder (Jul 1, 2017)

If you use sandpaper just make sure you check where the walls meet the roof. It's easy to leave a bit in the corner. Al's trick with a wood chisel to scrape it out works well.
The software is here http://torqsoft.net/piston-position.html
You need to know stroke and rod length. Your measurements are from top of piston crown to each port. So you need to subtract your squish when measuring from the top of the chamber, or place something the thickness of your squish in the bore to measure off of.


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## drf255 (Jul 2, 2017)

If you're using a meteor vs oem, I've seen as much as .008 difference in crown height, with the meteor being the taller of the two. This may account for some of the differences in squish. I've found that mine with Meteor are usually what Dan said. .009-.011.


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## roy wilson (Jul 2, 2017)

Paragon Builder said:


> If you use sandpaper just make sure you check where the walls meet the roof. It's easy to leave a bit in the corner. Al's trick with a wood chisel to scrape it out works well.
> The software is here http://torqsoft.net/piston-position.html
> You need to know stroke and rod length. Your measurements are from top of piston crown to each port. So you need to subtract your squish when measuring from the top of the chamber, or place something the thickness of your squish in the bore to measure off of.
> 
> ...


ok thanks , i,ll do some measurements when i'm on it again , doin a couple of things to the 266 first as its apart now


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## flyinfinn (Sep 12, 2018)

Old thread. I know. But I stumbled on this one today for $300 Canadian...which is about $14 USD right now. Ouch. 

1990 262XP. Not quite a “you suck” price. But I think I did good!

Came with 18” 3/8”. I can still see the machining marks on the piston! Stock form. Not muffler mod or porting...yet


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## Johnmn (Sep 12, 2018)

Looks pretty darn clean!


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## Sepia (Sep 12, 2018)

I was looking at that same saw. With shipping it was going to cost more than I would spend, but I figured it would be a good score for someone local to Thunder Bay.

Congrats!


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## flyinfinn (Sep 12, 2018)

CJ Brown said:


> I was looking at that same saw. With shipping it was going to cost more than I would spend, but I figured it would be a good score for someone local to Thunder Bay.
> 
> Congrats!



Thank you!

The seller mentioned someone in Sudbury. Must have been you? Trust me, this saw is going to a good home.


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## Huskybill (Sep 12, 2018)

I been hooked on these series of saws from the 162, 262, 372, 266, 268. I figure to port a 162 and keep it for a small saw.


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## Sepia (Sep 12, 2018)

flyinfinn said:


> Thank you!
> 
> The seller mentioned someone in Sudbury. Must have been you? Trust me, this saw is going to a good home.


Actually I am in Belleville, so there must have been guys looking at it. It's nice to see someone get it that actually knows what he has. According to the serial number, that's a pretty early production saw!


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## RanchDad (Sep 12, 2018)

Early, clean, with the KS/-87..! Very nice sir


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## holeycow (Sep 12, 2018)

so I guess they do turn up from time to time...

excellent!


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## dustinwilt68 (Sep 13, 2018)

I try and keep an assortment of parts for these saws around, one of my all time favorite saws, I had as many as 6x HDA 87, sold one yesterday to fund another project so I am down to 4 now I think, these saws make nice gains with a few simple mods or send for porting and they really come to life, I have 3 ported counting the one my dad runs and they are just a pleasure to run and work on, just a shame saws can't still be built this simple any more.


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## flyinfinn (Sep 13, 2018)

CJ Brown said:


> Actually I am in Belleville, so there must have been guys looking at it. It's nice to see someone get it that actually knows what he has. According to the serial number, that's a pretty early production saw!



The seller said his phone was ringing off the hook! I showed him the 87 carb and explained it is a VERY sought after saw.

7th week of 1990 makes it one of the earliest saws. I've only ever _heard_ of a 26th week 1989 from @SawTroll


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## flyinfinn (Sep 13, 2018)

dustinwilt68 said:


> I try and keep an assortment of parts for these saws around, one of my all time favorite saws, I had as many as 6x HDA 87, sold one yesterday to fund another project so I am down to 4 now I think, these saws make nice gains with a few simple mods or send for porting and they really come to life, I have 3 ported counting the one my dad runs and they are just a pleasure to run and work on, just a shame saws can't still be built this simple any more.



You don't happen to have a starter decal? Or a starter _with_ a decal? I'll trade


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## dustinwilt68 (Sep 13, 2018)

I have one NOS decal left, and a few NOS xpg. Pm me, I can also get starter covers


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## holeycow (Sep 13, 2018)

CJ Brown said:


> I was looking at that same saw. With shipping it was going to cost more than I would spend, but I figured it would be a good score for someone local to Thunder Bay.
> 
> Congrats!




Don’t you already have a bunch of those? That would sway your determination to have another I think.

Was this a kijiji offer, or somewhere else?


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## Sepia (Sep 13, 2018)

Yes I have a few of them now, and yes that does impact how much I will spend on another one. The saw being discussed here was on Kijiji and even though the pics weren't great, I could see it was an early saw and probably worth every penny the seller was asking.


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## holeycow (Sep 13, 2018)

early in the thread it was mentioned that they all run about the same, yet the early ones seem more desirable by some. Why is that?

do they all run about the same?


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## flyinfinn (Sep 13, 2018)

holeycow said:


> early in the thread it was mentioned that they all run about the same, yet the early ones seem more desirable by some. Why is that?
> 
> do they all run about the same?


The earlier versions of the 262XP have a KS cylinder and 87 carb. The 87 carb has a larger venturi, the KS cylinder is better than the Mahle...for...reasons? I'm not sure exactly why, but maybe someone else can explain.

I'm currently reading the whole thread. On page 15 so far...


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## holeycow (Sep 13, 2018)

"mastermind" said they run about the same....

I could see that the bigger carb might help when modded, but perhaps not when stock??


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## SawTroll (Sep 14, 2018)

flyinfinn said:


> The seller said his phone was ringing off the hook! I showed him the 87 carb and explained it is a VERY sought after saw.
> 
> 7th week of 1990 makes it one of the earliest saws. I've only ever _heard_ of a 26th week 1989 from @SawTroll



The 1989 week 26 one is pictured in the attached brochure, and appears to be number 166 that week.

As usual, the time of introduction likely varied between different markets, so there may not have been any 1989 saws sold in the US.


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## flyinfinn (Sep 14, 2018)

SawTroll said:


> The 1989 week 26 one is pictured in the attached brochure, and appears to be number 166 that week.
> 
> As usual, the time of introduction likely varied between different markets, so there may not have been any 1989 saws sold in the US.


Sneaky! I see it there. Maybe that was their first production run?


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## SawTroll (Sep 14, 2018)

flyinfinn said:


> Sneaky! I see it there. Maybe that was their first production run?



Well, it certainly wasn't a prototype or pre-production saw, with that serial number - that's all I know about it.


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## MustangMike (Sep 14, 2018)

How have you been doing Troll! Good to see your posts.


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## SawTroll (Sep 15, 2018)

MustangMike said:


> How have you been doing Troll! Good to see your posts.



Thank you! 

Actually I'm posting most days, but usually just in the "Good morning" thread in the Off topic


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## MustangMike (Sep 15, 2018)

90% of mine are in the Scrounging Firewood thread.

That Good Morning thread is nice, but too many posts to keep up with, almost reminds me of that Walton's TV show … "Good Night ****"


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Sep 15, 2018)

I sold this 1990 K&S with 87 for $350 usd. Last winter or this spring time frame. To me thats about max $ it.
The later year ones I had with mahle cyl and smaller carb bring less or at least should.

Stock for stock I could tell the difference in the K&S cyl one. Felt like a little hotrod. The mahle cyl ones dont do anything for me. JMO


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## holeycow (Sep 15, 2018)

That’s what I was curious about.


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## SawTroll (Sep 15, 2018)

MustangMike said:


> 90% of mine are in the Scrounging Firewood thread.
> 
> That Good Morning thread is nice, but too many posts to keep up with, almost reminds me of that Walton's TV show … "Good Night ****"



Surely there are too many posts, some make a separate "good morning" post for each of the others - no doubt in order to boost their post count and number of "likes". Having to scroll trough all that is getting tiresome, so I likely am going to change my focus back to the saw threads at some point. The trouble is that there are too many recent developments that I'm not updated on, but some times I feel I have something to contribute when older models is the topic.

I can't prove anything regarding the HDA-87 vs. -120, and KS vs. Mahle vs. Gilardoni top ends on the 262xp/xpg (most are xpg here) - and there are more factors involved as well, like non-decomp vs. decomp cylinders and different gaskets (on stock saws).

The power specs was changed from 3.5 kW/4.8 hp (m) to 3.4 kW/4.7 hp (m) at some point, but I believe that didn't happen before production was moved to Brazil in the early 2000s. To my knowledge, those late saws only were marketed in two markets, Russia and Israel. I did a lot of searching for them around 2003, and I think I would have found out if they were offered elsewhere at that point.

I attach a couple of pictures that is showing the 262XPH, a version that to my knowledge only was marketed in Russia.

I also attach a picture showing a 262xp Gilardoni cylinder off a 1991 saw, as I believe some may not know that such a thing exist.


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## SawTroll (Sep 15, 2018)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> I sold this 1990 K&S with 87 for $350 usd. Last winter or this spring time frame. To me thats about max $ it.
> The later year ones I had with mahle cyl and smaller carb bring less or at least should.
> 
> Stock for stock I could tell the difference in the K&S cyl one. Felt like a little hotrod. The mahle cyl ones dont do anything for me. JMO
> ...



Have you tried one with a non-decomp Mahle, or a Gilardoni?

The 262xp is one of only two Husky made saws (that I know of) that were made with both KS, Mahle and Gilardoni cylinders - the only other one is the Jonsered 670 Super/Champ.


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## flyinfinn (Sep 15, 2018)

SawTroll said:


> Surely there are too many posts, some make a separate "good morning" post for each of the others - no doubt in order to boost their post count and number of "likes". Having to scroll trough all that is getting tiresome, so I likely am going to change my focus back to the saw threads at some point. The trouble is that there are too many recent developments that I'm not updated on, but some times I feel I have something to contribute when older models is the topic.
> 
> I can't prove anything regarding the HDA-87 vs. -120, and KS vs. Mahle vs. Gilardoni top ends on the 262xp/xpg (most are xpg here) - and there are more factors involved as well, like non-decomp vs. decomp cylinders and different gaskets (on stock saws).
> 
> ...



What’s the purpose of those handles?


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## dmb2613 (Sep 15, 2018)

to hold on to lol


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## flyinfinn (Sep 15, 2018)

dmb2613 said:


> to hold on to lol


Thanks


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## Sepia (Sep 15, 2018)

SawTroll said:


> Surely there are too many posts, some make a separate "good morning" post for each of the others - no doubt in order to boost their post count and number of "likes". Having to scroll trough all that is getting tiresome, so I likely am going to change my focus back to the saw threads at some point. The trouble is that there are too many recent developments that I'm not updated on, but some times I feel I have something to contribute when older models is the topic.
> 
> I can't prove anything regarding the HDA-87 vs. -120, and KS vs. Mahle vs. Gilardoni top ends on the 262xp/xpg (most are xpg here) - and there are more factors involved as well, like non-decomp vs. decomp cylinders and different gaskets (on stock saws).
> 
> ...


That's an interesting looking saw @SawTroll ! Is it designed for cutting from a balloon?  
It doesn't surprise me that it was only marketed in Russia. 

As to the different cylinders that came on 262xp's, I have a few different cylinders here from both KS and Mahle. The KS cylinders are all non-decomp, and visually identical internally. The Mahle cylinders I have vary greatly internally, with some having small transfer tunnels, and others medium sized (KS cylinders have large tunnels), and some Mahle cylinders having large upper transfers, and others having small uppers. I only wish I knew the production dates of each cylinder so I could establish a pattern. I have a couple non-decomp Mahles and they both have small upper transfers. I have a few decomp Mahles and the transfers vary on them. Would you have any thoughts as to the varying port sizes on 262xp cylinders?


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## SawTroll (Sep 16, 2018)

CJ Brown said:


> …...
> 
> As to the different cylinders that came on 262xp's, I have a few different cylinders here from both KS and Mahle. The KS cylinders are all non-decomp, and visually identical internally. The Mahle cylinders I have vary greatly internally, with some having small transfer tunnels, and others medium sized (KS cylinders have large tunnels), and some Mahle cylinders having large upper transfers, and others having small uppers. I only wish I knew the production dates of each cylinder so I could establish a pattern. I have a couple non-decomp Mahles and they both have small upper transfers. I have a few decomp Mahles and the transfers vary on them. *Would you have any thoughts as to the varying port sizes on 262xp cylinders?*



Sorry, but no - you already told more about it than I knew from before.


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## holeycow (Sep 16, 2018)

Surely they have different running characteristics, these various cylinders...

I thought you had a bunch, not “a few”. Ha!


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## holeycow (Sep 16, 2018)

Yup, that’s a funny looking Russian saw. Hedge trimmer?. Weedeater?


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## SawTroll (Sep 16, 2018)

flyinfinn said:


> What’s the purpose of those handles?





CJ Brown said:


> That's an interesting looking saw @SawTroll ! Is it designed for cutting from a balloon?
> It doesn't surprise me that it was only marketed in Russia.
> 
> …..



My understanding is that it is for cutting close to the ground down in dugouts in the snow around the trees, without having to put the operators head down in the dugouts. This handle style has been common in at least parts of Russia, like Siberia - and not only on Husky saws. The other brands I have seen with such a handle all have been Russian though.

The 262XPH likely was the last 262 version to be discontinued, when it was replaced by a 365 version with a similar handle, long after the 262 had been discontinued on "Western" markets.


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## Tor R (Sep 16, 2018)

SawTroll said:


> The 262xp is one of only two Husky made saws (that I know of) that were made with both KS, Mahle and Gilardoni cylinders - the only other one is the Jonsered 670 Super/Champ.


Husqvarna 242 had the trio also.

262 had at least 6 different jugs, KS, Gilardoni, Mahle 48ZK without decomp, Mahle 48ZK with decomp, two different Mahle 48ZN15 with decomp, their transfer timing where different.

A bit off tophic, but 242 had also 6 different jugs if we're picky in details, the first one used M5 threads for the carb bolts, not got to the point if it had different timings, its a Mahle jug.
Then they used M4 threads for the carb bolts, another Mahle jug, up to around late 1990.
242XP where introduced late 90, better port timings + bigger piston windows, jugs delivered from both Mahle and KS, that should be top end kit number 3 and 4.
In about 93-94 they changed the transfer ports a tad, angled them different so it opened first against the intake, jugs delivered from Mahle and Gilardoni, brings us up in number 5 and 6.
96 was the last update I've seen where the piston gained more weight, that is version 7


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## holeycow (Sep 16, 2018)

well that settles it then.

I'm screwed.

I'll never find an identical saw to the one I just got.


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## dmb2613 (Sep 16, 2018)

he he I always thought them Huskies are made of spare leftover parts


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## spyder62 (Sep 16, 2018)

Got to use my late 92, 262 (ks & hda 87) for the first time today on some 42” red oak. We were also using our recently rebuilt 288 and our 562. I thought the 262 with 20” bar kept up with the 562 with 24” bar pretty well. My son and I were going to race the two saws but the starter rope broke in the middle and that ended that.overall the 262 ran well in some big wood. The 562 is a joy. Light nimble and powerful. It started on the first pull every time.


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## Tor R (Sep 17, 2018)

dmb2613 said:


> he he I always thought them Huskies are made of spare leftover parts


thats true, back in the 90's you never really knew what you bought, their IPL's are not really 100% true, and some of the changes wasnt even in any of their IPL's 
After watching 242 - 254 - 262, all the small upgrade/downgrade they went through, I got a few favourite years/ultimate builds.
262, ruffly late 93 or newer bottom part + KS + hda87, with a flywheel from 1996.
254, ruffly late 93 or newer bottom part + KS jug from 86 to midd 87, flywheel from 1996.
242 is easy though, late 1994 up to late 1995, they are in my book the 242 hot rods.


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## Sepia (Sep 17, 2018)

Great info @Tor R ! What exactly makes the flywheel from a 1996 saw desirable?


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## holeycow (Sep 17, 2018)

and what makes the newer cases desirable? My guess is the mag clutch cover compatibility...

tho the plastic clutch cover seems to be a good piece itself.


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## Tor R (Sep 17, 2018)

CJ Brown said:


> Great info @Tor R ! What exactly makes the flywheel from a 1996 saw desirable?


thanks bud,
1996-98 xpg flywheel is lighter, it also has a full circle magnet for the generator. Probleby the same for a non g flywheel also.
They also updated their coils around middle 1995 with ignition advance, there was 4 coil versions with ignition advance for the 254/262 class.


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## Tor R (Sep 17, 2018)

holeycow said:


> and what makes the newer cases desirable? My guess is the mag clutch cover compatibility...
> 
> tho the plastic clutch cover seems to be a good piece itself.


stronger crank, Husqvarna updated both the 254 and 262 with a bigger con rod bearing in middle of the year 1993.

They did the same with the 242 class in the middle of year 1994, bigger con rod bearing.


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## holeycow (Sep 17, 2018)

I will do as usual and run lots of oil in my early one, since that is what I have. Hopefully it holds up.

Does the new crank fit in the old cases?

And you are talking big-end, correct?


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## Tor R (Sep 17, 2018)

holeycow said:


> I will do as usual and run lots of oil in my early one, since that is what I have. Hopefully it holds up.
> 
> Does the new crank fit in the old cases?
> 
> And you are talking big-end, correct?


belive the crank fit in all different versions of the crankcases, and yes, its the big end we're speaking about.


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## holeycow (Sep 17, 2018)

Thank-you! You have explained a lot in very few words.

Regards


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## SawTroll (Sep 18, 2018)

Tor R said:


> thats true, back in the 90's you never really knew what you bought, their IPL's are not really 100% true, and some of the changes wasnt even in any of their IPL's
> After watching 242 - 254 - 262, all the small upgrade/downgrade they went through, I got a few favourite years/ultimate builds.
> 262, ruffly late 93 or newer bottom part + KS + hda87, with a flywheel from 1996.
> 254, ruffly late 93 or newer bottom part + KS jug from 86 to midd 87, flywheel from 1996.
> 242 is easy though, late 1994 up to late 1995, they are in my book the 242 hot rods.



Thanks for all the good info! 

With the 242 and 154/254 the power specs also changed trough the years (up) - while they never did with the 262, as long as the model was sold on "Western" markets. 
What happened later is a bit obscure to me though, all I know about that is that the very late "third world" 262 had the specs adjusted slightly _down_. I don't know for sure where those saws were made, but believe Brazil is a good guess?


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## SawTroll (Sep 18, 2018)

Tor R said:


> stronger crank, *Husqvarna updated both the 254 and 262 with a bigger con rod bearing in middle of the year 1993.*
> 
> They did the same with the 242 class in the middle of year 1994, bigger con rod bearing.



Here is a service bulletin about the change (on the 262 etc).


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## flyinfinn (Sep 18, 2018)

SawTroll said:


> Here is a service bulletin about the change (on the 262 etc).


Hmm. I have an older 262Xp and a newer 257. I wonder if I should swap the 262 top end onto the newer 257 bottom end to get more durability.


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## SawTroll (Sep 18, 2018)

holeycow said:


> and what makes the newer cases desirable? My guess is the mag clutch cover compatibility...
> 
> tho the plastic clutch cover seems to be a good piece itself.




I attach a service bulletin about the Mag cover (etc.), and compatibility with older cases.


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## Sepia (Sep 18, 2018)

SawTroll said:


> Here is a service bulletin about the change (on the 262 etc).





SawTroll said:


> I attach a service bulletin about the Mag cover (etc.), and compatibility with older cases.



This is great info @SawTroll Thanks for posting these bulletins.


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## SawTroll (Sep 19, 2018)

CJ Brown said:


> This is great info @SawTroll Thanks for posting these bulletins.



They were among a large number of service bulletins I got from @ray benson a couple of years ago.


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