# Stump grimder finance problem



## swyman (Mar 23, 2012)

So I found a 1672 rayco grinder at Rayco of Michigan. Dealer all happy and brings it down for me to demo. Love the machine and settled on a price. I figured rayco would have their own financing but the insisted going through a lease company out of grand rapids. Now I settled on a price that was not a smoking deal but none the less. This lease company came out with a 3 year and wanted my wife to sign to. Was more than I was.expecting but could still swing it. Called the guy to speak in person and told him where I wanted to be and said if I put down 10% he could get from $588 to $498/month. I have had the machine all week and today the sales manager came down to finalize. While I was.waiting I decided to service the machine and found out the true hours wrote on the inner air filter. 3546 and 320 showing on the hobbs. That is a lot of hours but machine runs perfect and I told him that if he'd knock another $1k off I would still take it. He stormed away only to text back later he would.accept my offer. Emailed the finance details and it only brought the payments down to $466 for 3 years and I would still have to put $1630 down. Then upon reading the "lease contract" the end of lease option is to purchase for $1332? What kind of horse s*** is that? I really want the machine for my negotiated price if I could go.through my own creditor. I feel they are playing dirty pool. I did try liberty but denied because I have only been in business 1 year. I pulled $600 this week with it so far and just got called for a $1300 job I bid last week for stumps. Money is not an issue as I still work fulltime in a factory so how the hell can I get ahead. I don't want to lose anymore business for not having a grinder. PLEASE HELP! I emailed rayco in wooster for insight.


----------



## Tree Pig (Mar 23, 2012)

Isnt there always a buyout at the end of a lease?


----------



## pdqdl (Mar 23, 2012)

Maybe wrong forum, but that's ok. Most of the regular guys don't go to the business forum, they come here, to be heard by their peers.

NEVER lease equipment, unless you are so desparate to buy something that you don't mind getting robbed while you own it. Leases are perfect for companies that are making so much money that they don't care what the equipment costs them.

Leases are intended to make money for the dealer/financier. Loans just pay the rent on the money you borrow, whereas most leases are sold to the gullible or the rich.

Don't do it! Find another way to buy it, or find a way to do without.


----------



## swyman (Mar 23, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> Maybe wrong forum, but that's ok. Most of the regular guys don't go to the business forum, they come here, to be heard by their peers.
> 
> NEVER lease equipment, unless you are so desparate to buy something that you don't mind getting robbed while you own it. Leases are perfect for companies that are making so much money that they don't care what the equipment costs them.
> 
> ...




I never wanted to lease and not gonna, that's just who the dealer.recommended to finance through. Its not right I feel 
they are trying to cheat me. Sorry del, just looking in here because I feel there are some guys in here that have been through the same thing and give me a good route to go. I am looking for the traditional loan, I can go to the Ford dealer.and drive off in a $60k pickup but can't get a normal loan for $14k on something I'm going to make money with?


----------



## himiler (Mar 24, 2012)

Every lease or loan is another opportunity for someone else to own you. 
They want your wife to sign? The guy storms off and then texts back? 
Lemme see, isn't it also drug dealers that let you use for free before charging?
See this for what it is, or you could end up like me and have no choice but to pay cash for any and everything.
Steve


----------



## formationrx (Mar 24, 2012)

*do it the old way....*

.....save your ####### money and put cash on the barrel head..... sounds like you are getting the #### end of the stick..... id give that machine back and find one cheaper.... you may have to do some real searching but you could probably find one half the price of what those mooching leech #### suckers want..... payments always just put you in a stress position.... what if you got to take some time off?...


----------



## himiler (Mar 24, 2012)

The company lied to you about the hours. They won't just stop at taking the machine back, they'll take everything til they get what you owe them. They HOPE you'll not be able to pay. Man this brings up a lot of angry emotion for me.


----------



## Bigus Termitius (Mar 24, 2012)

The hours issue would be enough for me to laugh and walk. Too many good ol grinders out there to take a bath on one.


----------



## greendohn (Mar 24, 2012)

the actual hours on the machine would send up a red flag. SEND IT BACK and find one that fits your budget.

Ya' gotta crawl before ya' walk

Ya' gotta walk before ya' run...

I could of bought a very nice older Vermeer for $3500.00 a couple years ago. 4 cyl. recent service, ie..bearings ...


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 24, 2012)

I picked up a Rayco 1625A SJR for $2500 last fall. Hour meter was broke in this one too. It said 100 hrs, but the machine looked like it had about 700 on it. Came with the trailer, and a spare tire.







I would tell them to go get bent. They had to know the true hours of that machine, and they choice to play if off at the lesser hours. Look around, you will find one cheaper.


----------



## superjunior (Mar 24, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I picked up a Rayco 1625A SJR for $2500 last fall. Hour meter was broke in this one too. It said 100 hrs, but the machine looked like it had about 700 on it. Came with the trailer, and a spare tire.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow 2tree if there wasn't any major issues with that machine I'd say you stole it at that price. Good find!


----------



## superjunior (Mar 24, 2012)

Swyman if you still really want that machine despite what you have learned then you might want to check out Keystone equip finance co. That's who Rayco referred me to when I financed my first grinder. They will bend you over some.. that's the rough part of being a new business with no real credit history. Rayco doesn't really do much in house financing as much as referring you to a finance co that fits your credit situation. 

Personally I would never pay that kind of $ for a machine with that many hrs and to get raped on the financing will make it hurt a lot worse..
Good luck


----------



## treevet (Mar 24, 2012)

Maybe a little off topic and you won't find any used ones likely yet but this a great option for tons of reasons. We have paid this off in jobs in less than a year and done hundreds and hundreds of stumps with it...even a 12 footer.

View attachment 230535


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 24, 2012)

treevet said:


> Maybe a little off topic and you won't find any used ones likely yet but this a great option for tons of reasons. We have paid this off in jobs in less than a year and done hundreds and hundreds of stumps with it...even a 12 footer.
> 
> View attachment 230535



Does that have a rider platform on it too? I like that alot.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 24, 2012)

superjunior said:


> Wow 2tree if there wasn't any major issues with that machine I'd say you stole it at that price. Good find!



Nothing major. Normal wear and tear. Gonna have to replace the wheel and pockets at some point. It has already paid for its self, two times now.


----------



## Dadatwins (Mar 24, 2012)

I used Northern financial for a recent purchase and was very happy with results. I think leasing is for very large companies that know they are going to turn over the equipment at the end of the term. That is a lot of hours on a stump machine and engines are not cheap. The dealer should have service the equipment before turning it over to you and was not being straight about the condition of the equipment. I would walk away and keep looking. Good luck.


----------



## superjunior (Mar 24, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Nothing major. Normal wear and tear. Gonna have to replace the wheel and pockets at some point. It has already paid for its self, two times now.



A damn good find. I think I paid 6k for a 99 with 600 hrs on it. Ran it for about 8 years and sold it for 4k. It paid for itself many times over. My new one is being delivered mon or tues


----------



## Bigus Termitius (Mar 24, 2012)

treevet said:


> Maybe a little off topic and you won't find any used ones likely yet but this a great option for tons of reasons. We have paid this off in jobs in less than a year and done hundreds and hundreds of stumps with it...even a 12 footer.
> 
> View attachment 230535



Would love to see one in action. Still using the ole 665?


----------



## treevet (Mar 24, 2012)

Bigus Termitius said:


> Would love to see one in action. Still using the ole 665?



yeah the 665 is running great since I had a total engine rebuild by Vermeer Ryan.

2Tree...no platform but you could put one on they said.


----------



## Bigus Termitius (Mar 24, 2012)

treevet said:


> yeah the 665 is running great since I had a total engine rebuild by Vermeer Ryan.
> 
> 2Tree...no platform but you could put one on they said.



I'll bet that wasn't too cheap. What did that cost you?

Just found that 665 that they sent me on a wild goose chase for. It's in aurora. I might call them and make an offer taking a rebuild into consideration. The city is requiring a 12" depth. Your old 630a did it with a set of jackets on it, but it was time consuming. It's paid for itself anyway. Time for a refresh tune up and belts. Going to paint it if I can ever put it to the side for a bit. Thought this winter would let me, but I was stayin too busy with it. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## treevet (Mar 24, 2012)

Bigus Termitius said:


> I'll bet that wasn't too cheap. What did that cost you?
> 
> Just found that 665 that they sent me on a wild goose chase for. It's in aurora. I might call them and make an offer taking a rebuild into consideration. The city is requiring a 12" depth. Your old 630a did it with a set of jackets on it, but it was time consuming. It's paid for itself anyway. Time for a refresh tune up and belts. Going to paint it if I can ever put it to the side for a bit. Thought this winter would let me, but I was stayin too busy with it. :msp_thumbup:



They were gonna sleeve it for bout 15hun then got it in and said 3k then got it back and they went ahead and made it a brand new engine without telling me 76hun. Told em they now owned another old 665. Won't be payin that. After a little coaxing and subtle threatening...they gave it to me for 39hun. Very happy with that. 

The corded remote totally makes this machine. I could use this til the day I die (not all that long lol) and wouldn't ever yearn for a shiny new hi tech 100 hp diesel stump terrorizer.


----------



## swyman (Mar 24, 2012)

Here is one of those stumps at the big job I have lined up. There is another one just like it and bid a Maple removal this morning that I am going to have to sweep 108". I think a tow behind is the only way for me to go. I have used a 252 and after running that 1672 I could not go any other way. I love the chip capacity of the tow behind and get a lot of big removals and stumps. This whole deal has me stressed to the max! You guys are right, I have to walk away, 4000 hours and $14,800 is just to much for me to handle. Everything I have is paid for which is why I can justify a payment on a stump grinder but so far financing has been impossible. They really want to rake you over the coals. Is it easier to buy a new one? Long term payments perhaps? I do not mind making payments as long as they are in the $350-400 range. But $466.50 for 3 years on a '97 with 4000 hours is just not a good business decision. This post may have been in wrong forum but this is why I went here. There are many here that have been here. I have a Vermeer dealer close, wonder if I could rent a SC602 or 752 for a week, that would give me a chance to do all the stumps. 
Thank you all for the imput and unf*****g my mind!!! You may have saved me a lot of BS

View attachment 230549


----------



## Bigus Termitius (Mar 24, 2012)

treevet said:


> They were gonna sleeve it for bout 15hun then got it in and said 3k then got it back and they went ahead and made it a brand new engine without telling me 76hun. Told em they now owned another old 665. Won't be payin that. After a little coaxing and subtle threatening...they gave it to me for 39hun. Very happy with that.
> 
> The corded remote totally makes this machine. I could use this til the day I die (not all that long lol) and wouldn't ever yearn for a shiny new hi tech 100 hp diesel stump terrorizer.



Consider willing it to me? 

That's all I ever really want or need in a machine, especially around here.

I'll source my own mill for this 665 I'm wanting to salvage. Vermeer can stick it...lol. Surprises me not that it went from 15, to 3, to 76, and back down to 39. (About what the motor cost them ofter core.) 

This one is now at 49, but I'll offer about 1500 and tell them I know ALL about it, and that I lost a day over a basket of lies. Probably won't make a difference, but who knows.

I've already located a good mill for the 630a if ever I need one. It's steep, but it has some modern amenities coming along with it. Can't find the link right now or I'd post it. I think they have the bigger 65 horse mills too. Gotta run over and pick up a new 660 with the 36" b+c, maybe I'll find it later.

Wouldn't mind a nice little toro, but these older vermeers are enough for now.


----------



## swyman (Mar 24, 2012)

Just got another call for 2 more stumps....... I'm losing my mind. Last year seems only a few asked for stumps to be removed on a removal now I'm getting calls just for stumps plus every removal I have scheduled includes the stump. I feel like I'm getting myself into trouble here. I do not want to disappoint the customer:msp_confused:


----------



## Grouchy old man (Mar 24, 2012)

Bigus Termitius said:


> Would love to see one in action. Still using the ole 665?



There was a whole thread about that machine about a year ago with videos. I've used it and wasn't impressed with it's lack of cutter power and other things. But if it works for you I can't argue with that.


----------



## Dadatwins (Mar 24, 2012)

swyman said:


> Here is one of those stumps at the big job I have lined up. There is another one just like it and bid a Maple removal this morning that I am going to have to sweep 108". I think a tow behind is the only way for me to go. I have used a 252 and after running that 1672 I could not go any other way. I love the chip capacity of the tow behind and get a lot of big removals and stumps. This whole deal has me stressed to the max! You guys are right, I have to walk away, 4000 hours and $14,800 is just to much for me to handle. Everything I have is paid for which is why I can justify a payment on a stump grinder but so far financing has been impossible. They really want to rake you over the coals. Is it easier to buy a new one? Long term payments perhaps? I do not mind making payments as long as they are in the $350-400 range. But $466.50 for 3 years on a '97 with 4000 hours is just not a good business decision. This post may have been in wrong forum but this is why I went here. There are many here that have been here. I have a Vermeer dealer close, wonder if I could rent a SC602 or 752 for a week, that would give me a chance to do all the stumps.
> Thank you all for the imput and unf*****g my mind!!! You may have saved me a lot of BS
> 
> View attachment 230549



Check with joann at Northern Atlantic financial, look at a 5 year purchase loan for used equipment. No penalty for early payment. 4000 hours is a LOT of hours for a stump grinder. Tow behind are great but access is usually the issue. Really depends on the market and the area. Not many customers in my area will tolerate a truck being driven into their yard. Plenty of self propelled out there than can get the job done just as well.


----------



## swyman (Mar 24, 2012)

The part that is really scary is if the dealer would have spent $60 on new filters I would have bought it for the first negotiated price of $15800. If I were a dealer and took a machine in the first thing I would do is service it. That's the first thing I did, good damn thing! Sick of incompetent people trying to screw ya but in this case I got lucky.


----------



## Grouchy old man (Mar 24, 2012)

I think for $15,800 you can do a lot better than that tow behind. I'm wondering how they are going to screw you over now since you were using it and are now cancelling the deal.


----------



## a_lopa (Mar 24, 2012)

Grouchy old man said:


> I think for $15,800 you can do a lot better than that tow behind. I'm wondering how they are going to screw you over now since you were using it and are now cancelling the deal.



Yes i would be walking from that deal!!

3000hrs is ALOT on a grinder,I doubt there actual hours.


----------



## treevet (Mar 24, 2012)

Grouchy old man said:


> There was a whole thread about that machine about a year ago with videos. I've used it and wasn't impressed with it's lack of cutter power and other things. But if it works for you I can't argue with that.



Once familiar with this machine it is plenty fast for average 30" dbh trunk stumps. I have never run it. While I am doing other stuff the stumps just get done easily and quickly by my gm. It is the single most underrated machine in the tree biz right now as I see it. I am actually a little tired of advocating it but in my 42nd year of doing tree work...I know what is a gem...this thing is a gem. nuff said


----------



## superjunior (Mar 24, 2012)

Grouchy old man said:


> I think for $15,800 you can do a lot better than that tow behind. I'm wondering how they are going to screw you over now since you were using it and are now cancelling the deal.



agreed. I bought a 1672 from rayco with 650 hrs on it for 14k.. Hopefully they can't do anything to swyman for backing out of the deal - they were trying to pull a fast one on him


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 24, 2012)

As long as he didn't sign anything, he should be fine. He was just demoing the machine. I want to get a bigger self propelled stumper like nctrees someday. I want to demo a morbark chipper, but the local dealer says its against morbark policy for the dealer not to be present while its being demoed. I think that is bs.


----------



## swyman (Mar 24, 2012)

Grouchy old man said:


> I think for $15,800 you can do a lot better than that tow behind. I'm wondering how they are going to screw you over now since you were using it and are now cancelling the deal.



I was already thinking about that but he Di bring it down for me to demo and I changed the oil, oil filter and hydraulic filter so if he wants to charge me I will charge him for servicing the machine.


----------



## no tree to big (Mar 24, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> As long as he didn't sign anything, he should be fine. He was just demoing the machine. I want to get a bigger self propelled stumper like nctrees someday. I want to demo a morbark chipper, but the local dealer says its against morbark policy for the dealer not to be present while its being demoed. I think that is bs.



that is a load of bs we demoed a 18" morbark and they were not there we had it for three days only thing that pissed me off was the blades looked trashed so we were not able to see its full potential...


swyman check out craigslist a lot of options out there stump grinder carlton 3500 48hp

Used Vermeer 672 Stump Grinder Vermeer 665B Stump grinder 1990 Rayco Hydro Stumper stump grinder


----------



## gorman (Mar 24, 2012)

leases are bunk. I got referred to a shark in LA (Louisiana) to finance my asv a couple years ago. The d bag had me go through great lengths to get all of my info to him, and then he emails me the payment schedule for the lease. I do the math, the lease is at 57%. Crazy. And he wanted $1500 up front just for the paperwork. Don't lease. It's nuts.


----------



## swyman (Mar 25, 2012)

gorman said:


> leases are bunk. I got referred to a shark in LA (Louisiana) to finance my asv a couple years ago. The d bag had me go through great lengths to get all of my info to him, and then he emails me the payment schedule for the lease. I do the math, the lease is at 57%. Crazy. And he wanted $1500 up front just for the paperwork. Don't lease. It's nuts.



Same thing here. I am about ready to say f it. Stay debt free and screw the stumps for now. I would love to do them but guess the only way to get one is pay cash so it will take a long time. Banks are f'ed up. Lot of f's just frustrated as hell, had my heart set on one and have the work there ready to go. My patience sucks


----------



## mattfr12 (Mar 25, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Isnt there always a buyout at the end of a lease?



Is he leasing it or financing to own. I'm lost. If so what is your reason for leasing? I turn trucks equip every 7-8 years and leasing is usually never the way to go.


----------



## swyman (Mar 25, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> Is he leasing it or financing to own. I'm lost. If so what is your reason for leasing? I turn trucks equip every 7-8 years and leasing is usually never the way to go.



Hey matt, good to see you active again. All I asked for from this Rayco dealer is to finance the machine through him. He has me contact this Leasing company for the financing, it just all reeks of poop. I would think a Rayco dealer would have a great financing program. How do people buy new ones, cash???? I may give Vermeer a call and see what machines they have available. Maybe I'll look into something new, spend more to spend less. If I can keep my payment in check by stretching it out I can treat my stump grinding as a seperate business. Save all money from that and pay it off when I do enough. Just a thought but this deal through Rayco just churns my stomach.


----------



## lawson's tree s (Mar 25, 2012)

could it be a old filter number? thats alot of hrs did all the pins, bearings look good? or a compression check. good luck..


----------



## stump grinder (Mar 25, 2012)

I have bought two new rayco machines since 2004.I work a factory job too. First time I went to a local bank and talked to the commercial lending officer. Next day I had the cash. Same with my 1645. I went to the commercial lending office. Next day again. That one was in 2009 which was when the banks were really tight.Have you tried locK banks with commercial lending?


Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


----------



## superjunior (Mar 25, 2012)

stump grinder said:


> I have bought two new rayco machines since 2004.I work a factory job too. First time I went to a local bank and talked to the commercial lending officer. Next day I had the cash. Same with my 1645. I went to the commercial lending office. Next day again. That one was in 2009 which was when the banks were really tight.Have you tried locK banks with commercial lending?
> 
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk



I almost went through my old finance co to purchase my new grinder but checked with my bank at the last minute and glad I did. Paying 1/2 the interest, bank is saving me $$ big time..


----------



## swyman (Mar 25, 2012)

lawson's tree s said:


> could it be a old filter number? thats alot of hrs did all the pins, bearings look good? or a compression check. good luck..



Pins have some wear, belt and pulleys look brand new. The filter hours were written with a sharpie and said hrs. Not sure on compression but no smoke even under heavy load. For the hours the machine is in great condition but I would have to have to rebuild the engine.


----------



## swyman (Mar 25, 2012)

superjunior said:


> I almost went through my old finance co to purchase my new grinder but checked with my bank at the last minute and glad I did. Paying 1/2 the interest, bank is saving me $$ big time..



I have not checked with my local bank on this purchase. I may give them a call but I think if the machine was new I would have not problem but $14k on a 15 year old machine may pose and issue. Did they give you fairly long term to keep payments low with option to pay off early. That is what I am thinking of.


----------



## stump grinder (Mar 25, 2012)

I took it for 60 months at I think 6.45% at the time. It is $315 per month, I did trade in my rayco 1625 and put down a few thousand on it. I borrowed $16,000.


----------



## swyman (Mar 25, 2012)

stump grinder said:


> I took it for 60 months at I think 6.45% at the time. It is $315 per month, I did trade in my rayco 1625 and put down a few thousand on it. I borrowed $16,000.



I feel comfortable with anything under $400. Will have some searching. I don't want to let down my cutomers, the stump bids keep coming in but I don't know if it will last since I have not even thought about them before. Most will probably be form my own removals, have 7 on the job board right now. I just don't like going into the unknown, I'm afraid of the risk. Has anyone reading this forum and does stump grinding NOT been able to have the grinder soley pay for itself?


----------



## himiler (Mar 25, 2012)

swyman said:


> Same thing here. I am about ready to say f it. Stay debt free and screw the stumps for now. I would love to do them but guess the only way to get one is pay cash so it will take a long time. Banks are f'ed up. Lot of f's just frustrated as hell, had my heart set on one and have the work there ready to go. My patience sucks



It's my belief that the dealer wanted to get you hooked on a questionable machine. Bottom line is would you treat your customers the way you have been treated by the Rayco dealer? If the answer is "NO" then don't waste your time and emotion on their trap. Trust me when I tell you that money management is way more important than money making. Bide your time, increase your knowledge on your options, stash your money and when a good deal comes along, you'll be prepared. If the opportunities are there now to make money with a stump grinder, is there any reason they won't be there in the future?
Steve


----------



## tree md (Mar 25, 2012)

swyman said:


> I feel comfortable with anything under $400. Will have some searching. I don't want to let down my cutomers, the stump bids keep coming in but I don't know if it will last since I have not even thought about them before. Most will probably be form my own removals, have 7 on the job board right now. I just don't like going into the unknown, I'm afraid of the risk. Has anyone reading this forum and does stump grinding NOT been able to have the grinder soley pay for itself?



Lol, I paid $200 for my grinder and have put about $300 into it in two years... I am having to put a new electric clutch this week but even so, I have made my money back 200 fold on it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Grouchy old man (Mar 25, 2012)

swyman said:


> ... if the machine was new I would have not problem but $14k on a 15 year old machine may pose and issue.



Yup and that's a good point. Not defending banks but if they believe it's not worth that much where the hell do the guys selling it come off thinking that's how much it's worth? Must be a lot of suckers with cash or else it would be sitting there until they cut the price in half.


----------



## stump grinder (Mar 25, 2012)

swyman said:


> I feel comfortable with anything under $400. Will have some searching. I don't want to let down my cutomers, the stump bids keep coming in but I don't know if it will last since I have not even thought about them before. Most will probably be form my own removals, have 7 on the job board right now. I just don't like going into the unknown, I'm afraid of the risk. Has anyone reading this forum and does stump grinding NOT been able to have the grinder soley pay for itself?



Consider this, people trade in their machines for several reasons. They don't like it, need something better or different or they have worn it out or something else. 300 hours vs over 3000 hours and no disclosure from the dealer? Deal killer for me. I saw stress fractures on my 1625 at 625 hours and got rid of it. Are you a tree service? I am strictly stump removal. I have a full time job like you do and I don't have much time to do things for myself during stump season. So If you remove trees, do you have extra time to be messing with the stumps? Is there more money to be had doing just the trees? Or Perhaps a brand new smaller self propelled machine that can be had for under $20000 might fit. You can get into so many more places with them and the money is in the small stumps and not the big ones. I would rather do 10 small ones than one big one that takes a ton of time. They still do the big stumps as well. Granted a diesel is nice. Good luck!


----------



## tree md (Mar 25, 2012)

Grouchy old man said:


> Yup and that's a good point. Not defending banks but if they believe it's not worth that much where the hell do the guys selling it come off thinking that's how much it's worth? Must be a lot of suckers with cash or else it would be sitting there until they cut the price in half.



Right on. You know what they say bout a fool and their money...


----------



## superjunior (Mar 25, 2012)

swyman said:


> I have not checked with my local bank on this purchase. I may give them a call but I think if the machine was new I would have not problem but $14k on a 15 year old machine may pose and issue. Did they give you fairly long term to keep payments low with option to pay off early. That is what I am thinking of.



I got a pretty good deal with them. Its a 17k machine, I put 5k down and payments are 367 a month for 3 years. I can buy out early after 1 year with no penalty. They're only charging 6% interest where my old finance co was going to charge 12%


----------



## Frank Boyer (Mar 25, 2012)

Read your paperwork before you sign. Some leases add on the sales tax to the payment. Always check what the payoff is, on some lease to own leases the payoffs are $1. Total up all of the costs including filing fees. I've seen filing fees from $150 to $600 for the same paperwork.


----------



## BigWill1985 (Mar 25, 2012)

Wow, sounds like they were trying to run you through the ringer! Bought our stump grinder (Vermeer 206, 3-wheeled, self propelled, center/manual pivoting, with 20hp Kohler gas engine) back in January for $2900. It had only 27 hours on it, and honestly looked like new. Was owned by a municipality in New Jersey, and they got tired of storing it. We just waited for tax returns to come back and paid for it with cash.

Not sure about how you guys operate, but there isn't a lot of money to be made doing stumps here. Gas/travel expenses eat up a majority of the profit. We make our money doing tree work, and use our stump grinder as a deal maker in getting jobs. Our grinder is small enough to fit into pretty much any space, yet big enough to tackle large stumps (did a 14.5' circumference red oak stump here just a few weeks ago). Sure, it's not as easy as a full hydraulic grinder, but I also don't have to keep work rolling day in and day out or worry about how I am going to make payments. I also don't have to worry about someone taking away a major tool that provides my income.

~Will Courtier~


----------



## arbor pro (Mar 26, 2012)

swyman said:


> I feel comfortable with anything under $400. Will have some searching. I don't want to let down my cutomers, the stump bids keep coming in but I don't know if it will last since I have not even thought about them before. Most will probably be form my own removals, have 7 on the job board right now. I just don't like going into the unknown, I'm afraid of the risk. Has anyone reading this forum and does stump grinding NOT been able to have the grinder soley pay for itself?



I thought you bought a sc252 not so long ago? Or was it just a forum discussing which grinder to buy? Anyhow - my advice on that matter stands - start out with a smaller machine like a 252 or the rayco 1625 - either of which you can find for around $5k +/- depending on condition and grind away. You can do any size stump with that machine and you can have it paid off in a single season. You don't need a 70hp machine to get started and borrowing only $5k should be a lot easier than finding someone to loan you $17,000. You can always upgrade to the bigger machine once you know the business is there to justify the purchase. Just my 2 cents...

AP


----------



## superjunior (Mar 26, 2012)

arbor pro said:


> I thought you bought a sc252 not so long ago? Or was it just a forum discussing which grinder to buy? Anyhow - my advice on that matter stands - start out with a smaller machine like a 252 or the rayco 1625 - either of which you can find for around $5k +/- depending on condition and grind away. You can do any size stump with that machine and you can have it paid off in a single season. You don't need a 70hp machine to get started and borrowing only $5k should be a lot easier than finding someone to loan you $17,000. You can always upgrade to the bigger machine once you know the business is there to justify the purchase. Just my 2 cents...
> 
> AP



Thats what I did. Started with a 1625 then bought a 1672 when I could afford it. Having a small self propelled and a big tow behind is one awesome combo


----------



## swyman (Mar 26, 2012)

*Thank you everyone*

Dealer is coming to pick up the machine today. Thank you guys for all the input and all had great points and I still have a cash stash! I did manage to make $600 off of it this past week and wish conditions would have been right and could have done the job for $1300. I will look into renting a 752 from vermeer for a week when I get more stumps lined up and knock'em out quick. I think I may look into buying a smaller self propelled like y'all said. I'll see what options are out there and not rush into anything especially if it don't feel right like this one. 
Thanks,
Shane


----------



## mattfr12 (Mar 26, 2012)

swyman said:


> Hey matt, good to see you active again. All I asked for from this Rayco dealer is to finance the machine through him. He has me contact this Leasing company for the financing, it just all reeks of poop. I would think a Rayco dealer would have a great financing program. How do people buy new ones, cash???? I may give Vermeer a call and see what machines they have available. Maybe I'll look into something new, spend more to spend less. If I can keep my payment in check by stretching it out I can treat my stump grinding as a seperate business. Save all money from that and pay it off when I do enough. Just a thought but this deal through Rayco just churns my stomach.



I go through my bank. Interest rates are gonna be less. Whenever I'm gonna do a major purchase I just call the three major banks in my area and shop the interest rate. They gave me 4.0% on a used truck. I usually won't bite on anything over 6%.

The kinda payment your looking to pay will get you a nice machine. I sold my bobcat on the tree trader I think it's still listed with the stump grinder and picked up a carlton ox with 145hp. And am paying 500$ for it. I put some green down tho it was an 2008. I had the bobcat paid off so it gave me a nice 30k down payment. 

But 4-5 Hun a month is gonna get you a nice machine. What kinda interest rate are they offering because your payment seems high to me but I may be wrong.


----------



## swyman (Mar 26, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> I go through my bank. Interest rates are gonna be less. Whenever I'm gonna do a major purchase I just call the three major banks in my area and shop the interest rate. They gave me 4.0% on a used truck. I usually won't bite on anything over 6%.
> 
> The kinda payment your looking to pay will get you a nice machine. I sold my bobcat on the tree trader I think it's still listed with the stump grinder and picked up a carlton ox with 145hp. And am paying 500$ for it. I put some green down tho it was an 2008. I had the bobcat paid off so it gave me a nice 30k down payment.
> 
> But 4-5 Hun a month is gonna get you a nice machine. What kinda interest rate are they offering because your payment seems high to me but I may be wrong.



Was high, didn't show rate but figured to be around 13% no way I was doing that. Damn near had myself talked into it though. Want to stay high 300's on payment. Will find something.


----------



## mattfr12 (Mar 28, 2012)

swyman said:


> Was high, didn't show rate but figured to be around 13% no way I was doing that. Damn near had myself talked into it though. Want to stay high 300's on payment. Will find something.



Ya that is highway robbery, 13% is high I'm at 6% or 7% on my grinder. And I'm sure you can obtain a % just as good if not better. As long as you didn't trash your credit or are in debt up to your eyeballs.

A lot of times you gotta look at the stipulations the banks or lenders have some charge more on used equipment vs new. it is rare but it has been cheaper for me to take out a personal loan before other than take used vehicle rates.

I have talked myself into a lot of stuff. Sometimes the want causes you to overlook things like 13% and say ah thats not to bad. But i can guarantee you its a good thing you lost this deal because your gonna get a better one.

for 350-400 a month that puts you in the price range of a 25-30k grinder. (roughly) that gets you a morbark D76 on tracks 60hp diesel. Less than 500 hours and 3-5 years old. If you can't find one at this price let me know i run across the Morbarks a lot.

i myself have tried vermeer, morbark, and am now onto carlton and think it is by far the best thought out stump grinder ever with the full 360 degree rotation. and in your price range you can get a 60hp carlton with the same features.

good luck and hope you get what your looking for.


----------



## mattfr12 (Mar 28, 2012)

swyman said:


> Was high, didn't show rate but figured to be around 13% no way I was doing that. Damn near had myself talked into it though. Want to stay high 300's on payment. Will find something.



also stay current with your banks i just refinanced one of my trucks for the same amount of time i think their was one year left on the loan. i saved 80$ per month by the new lower interest rate they where offering. I'm always looking if your not paying attention their only gonna try and go deeper in your pocket.

i paid a CC off a few months ago and still got a bill for 22.00. called them up and they said it was interest even tho i sent the whole amount in. theirs always a scam.


----------



## ROPECLIMBER (Mar 28, 2012)

I paid a card off like that and ignored the new bill and they started putting intrest on intrest on intrest just about ruined my credit 
finally got them to take the original amount but had to stay on the phone for close to 2 hrs, had ask for a pay off amount while in line at chase drive through too, now I pay it off every month havent paid a fee or intrest since spring of 08, look at the revenue statements at your bank next time your in the lobby, they make more on fees than they do on intrest, use them not the other way around, but then i cant get a loan thank God I still have the cc for emergencies and bills, just pay it off every month, go figure chase is a rokerfeller bank and they financed both sides of several wars isnt that treason.
Paul


----------



## sgreanbeans (Mar 28, 2012)

I had a CC once! First wife liked it so much, she left me for it! Never again!


----------



## arbor pro (Mar 28, 2012)

As long as you pay your cc bill off every month, you have to love the free cash back. I use my Cabela's cc for as many business purchases as possible and each year end up with a cool grand in free stuff at Cabela's. Buy all my kids' columbia coats there, my work boots, my good black leather coat and all sorts of good camping and fun stuff. Of course, their interest rate is high but, so long as the bill gets paid in full monthly, who cares? 

Gotta love buying a $20k piece of equipment with a cc and getting $200 worth of free gear or cash back on top of it! 

AP


----------



## swyman (Mar 28, 2012)

arbor pro said:


> As long as you pay your cc bill off every month, you have to love the free cash back. I use my Cabela's cc for as many business purchases as possible and each year end up with a cool grand in free stuff at Cabela's. Buy all my kids' columbia coats there, my work boots, my good black leather coat and all sorts of good camping and fun stuff. Of course, their interest rate is high but, so long as the bill gets paid in full monthly, who cares?
> 
> Gotta love buying a $20k piece of equipment with a cc and getting $200 worth of free gear or cash back on top of it!
> 
> AP



Was doing that in my younger years. Have a Cabela's 17 miles away. Got a Glock 23 for free! Started getting carried away with that damn thing and next thing I know I was at my $20k limit and was working at a Ford plant and they announced they were closing it. Learned the hard way and was not easy but put an end to that, no more Cabela's card. It was all my fault but can't handle it.


----------



## swyman (Mar 28, 2012)

Going to rent a vermeer 752 for a week. Will give me a good comparison to the rayco 1672dxh. I would not do it but have that monster stump job to do plus i'll have a few more in another week so I.can get out of them quick. That way if I decide to get a small.self propelled I won't have 12hrs worth of stumps to do. Gonna cost me $1k for the.week to demo but will knock if off the top if I like it. They had a bunch of 752's come in off lease from the city of Detroit, all 2003-2006 with 120-1500hrs.


----------



## no tree to big (Mar 28, 2012)

swyman said:


> Going to rent a vermeer 752 for a week. Will give me a good comparison to the rayco 1672dxh. I would not do it but have that monster stump job to do plus i'll have a few more in another week so I.can get out of them quick. That way if I decide to get a small.self propelled I won't have 12hrs worth of stumps to do. Gonna cost me $1k for the.week to demo but will knock if off the top if I like it. They had a bunch of 752's come in off lease from the city of Detroit, all 2003-2006 with 120-1500hrs.



752's are beast

I don't think you'll be disappointed


----------

