# i need a good insurance company



## voxac30dude (Nov 1, 2009)

getting myself and my workers insured so, im wondering what are some great insurance companies that arn't such a hassle. what insurance companies do you guys use?


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## TreeW?rx (Nov 1, 2009)

Find yourself an independent insurance agent. They usually have ties to several companies. The one that I use took almost a week to get us insured, but he found a company that would cover all of our equipment, our workman's comp and liability all together. The hardest part is finding a company willing to insure you in a high risk industry with out wanting your first born child.


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## TheLumberJack (Nov 2, 2009)

TreeWürx said:


> Find yourself an independent insurance agent.



+1 
Mine is a State Farm rep but he has all the resources possible.

It's much better having a local rep, especially if the fit does hit the shan and claims become a reality.

I walked in and walked out an hour later with my coverage.


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## clinchscavalry (Dec 7, 2009)

I looked for a thread about insurance before starting a new one, and this was it, but there has been little discussion.

I have had a hard time trying to find someone to write just one policy for the business/es my son and I are involved in. The hassle and expense is almost prohibitive to get multiple policies, so I was hoping some of you might have recommendations.

Here is our dilemma. My son and I are both consulting foresters, registered in Georgia. I just filled out an insurance application for the forestry side of our business, and one of the questions concerned payroll for 2009. I knew it was bad, but when I added it up, I was mortified ! Combined, we grossed less than I did singly when I left my old employer in 1988 to start my own business ! No wonder times have been rough this last year.

We have delved into all kinds of work to help make ends meet including floor refinishing, shed building, lot clearing, firewood selling, and, our most expensive venture, pecan growing. We own 38 acres of pecans and lease another 83. Therefore, we needed a liability policy to cover us while on other folks property. We also need something to cover our equipment which, so far, consists of two tractors, a mower, a sprayer, trailer, and bucket truck. Much of this equipment will have to stay on these other tracts for extended periods, and we need theft and fire coverage. But here is where some of you can step in I hope. We intend to use the bucket truck, tractor grapple and trailer to fill in with tree clean up work. I don't mean technical takedowns of 200 ft. trees leaning over nursing homes, but general tree work in relatively open or less dangerous sites. I think the last agent said something like "that's a lot of stuff going on with one account".

It's frustrating to know that insurers want separate policies for every single business, but we're forced to do anything for a buck these days. The forest industry is about to go belly up around here if something doesn't change fast, so we're trying to adapt as best we can.

Does anyone have a good agent/company they can recommend that doesn't run and hide when you mention chainsaw or bucket truck?


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## cjnspecial (Dec 13, 2009)

Any agent should be able to get you a policy to cover your equipment. 
For General Liability, most agent's have markets for each type of work you are doing but it is going to be difficult to find a single carrier willing to write it all on one policy and most carriers want to write all or none. 
For work comp, you are going to be stuck with the assigned risk carrier for GA. They have to write you no matter what you do. I know a little bit about comp and here is a link to help you out:
http://sbwc.georgia.gov/00/channel_modifieddate/0,2096,11394008_12749187,00.html


BTW: There are very few insurance companies that will write businesses directly, most require going through an insurance agent.


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## clinchscavalry (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks for the info. cjn. My son and I own an LLC for the forestry business and the new pecan business is, so far, a sole proprietorship, but we'll also put that under an LLC when we can dig up the extra cash to incorporate, etc.

Therefore, we aren't required to carry worker's comp. unless we elect to. At least that's the way I understand it.

The agent we've been talking to is Farm Bureau, and they have historically been very competitive with prices and offered good service. The underwriter just can't get a grasp on the fact that we have zero history with this new business, meaning no "payroll" so far. I think we'll have something from them soon that is affordable, but it's been a long, slow process.

I don't have to tell many of you this, but it's getting very difficult to make a living after paying for insurance, taxes and licenses. But what else can we do


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## tramp bushler (Jan 7, 2010)

Ya , the easy part of life is over in America ... I,m suprised your timber industry is in trouble , I was talking with a guy from Alabama the other day , he said their timber industry was on the ropes also ....... You guys are the ones who can grow trees faster than anyone else .... I can see how mechanization can eliminate alot of jobs , but I,m suprised that the industry is having trouble ..... Do you guys have problems with environmentalists ????????????????? That is our biggest problem in the west and especially Alaska .........
. I need a general liability policy to buy my next timber sale ....... I have a very slim profit margin so I,m hopeing I can find an affordable one .....


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## clinchscavalry (Jan 7, 2010)

tramp bushler said:


> Ya , the easy part of life is over in America ... I,m suprised your timber industry is in trouble , I was talking with a guy from Alabama the other day , he said their timber industry was on the ropes also ....... You guys are the ones who can grow trees faster than anyone else .... I can see how mechanization can eliminate alot of jobs , but I,m suprised that the industry is having trouble ..... Do you guys have problems with environmentalists ????????????????? That is our biggest problem in the west and especially Alaska .........
> . I need a general liability policy to buy my next timber sale ....... I have a very slim profit margin so I,m hopeing I can find an affordable one .....



You're right, we can grow sawtimber in 30 years or less in this climate, but stumpage prices have been on the skid for ten years now. Only pulpwood has inched back up to almost what it was in '99. Our small pine sawtimber prices (chip-n-saw) are 1/3 of what they were and large pine sawtimber is about 1/2. After one of the wettest years on record, there is a slight blip in demand and prices since there are few places loggers can work right now, and the mills are running low. But that will probably all end when things dry out. Since my son and I make most of our living from selling timber and we get paid a commission, our income is less than half what it used to be. 

No, we don't have trouble with the tree huggers, yet anyway. I blame the feds for most of our troubles. First it was the CRP program. Many millions of acres of good farmland was planted in pines with the taxpayer footing much of the bill and paying an annual "rent" under ten year contracts. The original intent was to convert marginal farmland to pine production, but, the farmers, seeing the big government handout, planted some of the best land they had. Then it was the huge importation of Canadian lumber. Go to a Lowe's, Home Depot or other builder supply, and the only southern yellow pine you'll see is the pressure treated stuff. Why, because the spruce won't accept pressure treating. Otherwise there would be almost no market for locally grown timber. Canadian lumber was cheap, and there was no tariff. Their gov't subsidized the timber industry and actually sold at a loss, but it helped wreck our market around here. Georgia's timber industry once approached 20 billion a year, but it's nowhere near that now.

Now we have a glut of pine pulpwood coming from first thinnings on the CRP land, and when it grows into sawtimber, guess what, the market will still be flooded.

Just like most everything else, our illustrious "leaders" are selling this country out. One day we'll have no farmland left in the South as it will all be planted in pines to "sequester carbon". There will be no timber market so it will have to be given away to be thinned. 

Things don't look good for an industry that once was no. one in this area. I just hope the public comes to its senses and kicks out every one of the morons who want to give the USA away. Rant over, back to your regularly scheduled program


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 9, 2010)

clinchscavalry said:


> . Canadian lumber was cheap, and there was no tariff. Their gov't subsidized the timber industry and actually sold at a loss, but it helped wreck our market around here.



Hi, from a BC professional forester.

Canadian timber isn't subsidized, the land ownership structure is different, stumpage expectations are different and forest management is different.

Mill efficiencies are different hence prices are lower.

There has been fights/negotiations over tariffs since the mid 1800's. Even though there is a Free Trade Agreement in place, our companies have been paying a tariff or export tax for many years.

Things are just as bad here. Friends of mine who own a forest consulting firm, that I was apart of years ago, have had their major government layout/cruising contract cut in half on about 2 weeks notice. As in, 'we've spent half our money, we aren't selling any wood, you're shut down'. They have a mapping/GIS side business but it is still slow.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 9, 2010)

I,m posting a question over on the Forestry and logging forum about Pulp ...


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## clinchscavalry (Jan 9, 2010)

BC WetCoast said:



> Canadian timber isn't subsidized, the land ownership structure is different, stumpage expectations are different and forest management is different.




Here is some information from Wilkipedia (admittedly not a perfect source of information) that outlines the Canada-US Softwood dispute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_–_Canada_softwood_lumber_dispute


All I can add is that I live in an area that produces a tremendous amount of yellow pine. Stumpage prices are ridiculously low, loggers are getting paid little more than they were twenty years ago, and fuel prices are five or six times what they were less than ten years ago. There is no way Canadian mills can be that much more "efficient" to allow growing (on much longer rotations) the wood, harvesting, milling, and shipping to Georgia for prices less than locally produced wood. I am certainly not smart enough to dissect all the government BS and decipher what is "subsidized" and what is not, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Besides, our yellow pine is superior in all ways to the spruce :biggrinbounce2:

What does all this have to do with insurance ? Well, if foresters can't make a living anymore due to a declining market and dismal stumpage prices, then they certainly can't improve their lives by paying more than necessary for liability insurance.


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## tramp bushler (Jan 9, 2010)

No fueding kids .. There are enough environmentalists to fight with .......


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