# beware falling prices!!



## acme0007 (Apr 1, 2010)

I can't believe it but all the jobs that I have been bidding this year I have been loosing. They all say stuff like I have a much lower bid or I'll call you later. I have been in business since 1981 and prices have gone freakin down. Oh well I guess I will just pay half of my bills, they will understand. yea right.:censored:


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## tree md (Apr 2, 2010)

Well you're lucky if it's just now hitting your area. Means you have to experience a shorter period of it until we hopefully recover. The bottom dropped out here about a year and a half ago. Work is going for about a third less than what it was before. It's cut throat out there.


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## acme0007 (Apr 2, 2010)

Thats about exactly the way it is here, 1/3 lower pricing. They just announced that the Connectivity plant is closing it's doors this year also. That means 400 guys with mowers and saws in the back of their trucks low-balling the hell out everything. wasn't Obama going to FIX the economy not spend more on things we can't afford?


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## mckeetree (Apr 2, 2010)

Around here it's the illegal aliens that are doing tree work for about 1/5 of what the going price was two years ago.


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## RAG66 (Apr 2, 2010)

I don't want to sound too optimistic but, the jobs that I'm getting now are at somewhat normal prices. The amount of calls is not that great but the people are accepting the prices that I'm giving.


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## indiansprings (Apr 2, 2010)

It's just not in your industry, any service related work is suffering, my wife and kids own a lawn service, you talk about cheap bids,lol, at least not everyone can climb and run a saw or have the chippers and euipment needed to do the work. Any idiot can push or ride a lawn mower or weed eater, we've seen guys offering to do yards for 15-20 bucks, there is no way they are making any money at the end of the day after truck gas, equipment fuel and maint. Hope it's short term.


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## Oly's Stump (Apr 3, 2010)

This is the worst that I have ever seen. Its hard to get work even when you bring your price down.


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## TheP1RATE (Apr 3, 2010)

acme0007 said:


> I can't believe it but all the jobs that I have been bidding this year I have been loosing. They all say stuff like I have a much lower bid or I'll call you later. I have been in business since 1981 and prices have gone freakin down. Oh well I guess I will just pay half of my bills, they will understand. yea right.:censored:



hi mate its the same everywhere. i had my own little taxi business and was doing quite well.
then when people started losing there jobs allot of them started up a taxi as well as all they needed was the car and taxi insurance and license.
within the space of a year there where five times as many taxi,s about and the half of them where charging like half the price of what the fare should have cost,
such to the extent i don't know how they could have made a profit at all.
there are now so many taxi,s this small seaside town where i live that its just not a viable business any more and have such went out of business because of it.
which is part of the reason i have now started cutting my own firewood and hopefully build up enough to sell some come the winter for a few extra pounds.
the rich just keep getting richer and the keep getting poorer.
i think for are children and grand children the world is not going to be a very nice place to live in as far as employment goes anyway.
the more advance we get with technology the less people are need for labor, a single computer can do the work of 100 men with just one operator watching over it.
we are in fact or own worst enemy and our success in technology will be or own greatest downfall.
:angrysoapbox:


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## tree md (Apr 7, 2010)

Just got off the phone with a client a little while ago. I shot her a price on a large Sweet Gum of $1200. Tree is worth $1600. Complete removal with stump ground. I had to come in under a $1400 bid which was low. I told her $1200 because she is a good client and the property manager at a condo complex where I have the tree account. I was talking to her today about some work that I bid at the complex. I got the go ahead on that and she says that she wishes that I could do the tree at her house for $1000 because she has someone scheduled to do it Saturday for that price. I have no choice but to match this price if I want to be assured that I keep the commercial account. Being that this dude scheduled for Saturday I am thinking he is probably a weekend warrior. Not going to call him out on a public forum but let's just say that his service is literally named after a cartoon character. It's like your having to go to war with folks out here!!! :angry2:


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## yooper (Apr 7, 2010)

Prices have been down here too. My only area competitor had to buy a new chipper and bucket truck last summer so I dropped my prices to the point where I was making enough money to just make it through last year. figured it was a good time to put him under. Last I heard he lost both through the winter he cant climb so I wonder if he will be getten a new ladder this year.


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## tree md (Apr 7, 2010)

Believe me I am contemplating doing the same thing. Every piece of equipment I own is bought and paid for. I have very low overhead. I can be the cheapest in town if I so choose. Trouble is I get called on a lot of big trees and hazardous trees. I advertise for them and have a name for doing them around here. This gum I am talking about is probably 30" DBH and I've got some rope work to do in it. You know how bad it sucks having to haul all that away and grind the stump (which is probably 48" in a bricked up ring around the tree) for a thousand bucks. If it weren't for the fact that I have a good relationship with this woman on a commercial account I would be walking away.

I've got a half a mind to work dirt cheap this Summer and see if I can't put some folks with equipment payments under.


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## squad143 (Apr 7, 2010)

I bid work to get the job and make money, not put the competition out of business. (Maybe that's what you gotta do if there are too many tree companies in your area and not enough trees).

Problem is, that there is always going to be someone (Pickup and a chainsaw) that can under-bid you. And when he's gone there will be someone else.

I can understand having to lower prices to make a living in this economy, but to do it to drive out others??? Set your prices too low and you might be going with them. Or, when things pick up, your customers will still expect the same low pricing.


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## tree md (Apr 7, 2010)

Yeah, it's nothing new. Just a lot more of it now. The steel mill shut down in my town as well as a lot of other places. They said on the news last month that half the people in my area lost their job in the past year. Everybody and their brother is out cruising neighborhoods with a chainsaw and a ladder.

I was a little hot when I posted earlier (still am to tell the truth). LOL, I'm always going to get the most I can out of any job, no matter what I say when I'm mad. It's just not in my blood to lowball. I hate to feel like I'm getting screwed when I'm doing a job. Like I feel here lately. At least I'm working and that better than a lot are doing around here right now.


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## joesawer (Apr 8, 2010)

tree md said:


> Believe me I am contemplating doing the same thing. Every piece of equipment I own is bought and paid for. I have very low overhead. I can be the cheapest in town if I so choose. Trouble is I get called on a lot of big trees and hazardous trees. I advertise for them and have a name for doing them around here. This gum I am talking about is probably 30" DBH and I've got some rope work to do in it. You know how bad it sucks having to haul all that away and grind the stump (which is probably 48" in a bricked up ring around the tree) for a thousand bucks. If it weren't for the fact that I have a good relationship with this woman on a commercial account I would be walking away.
> 
> I've got a half a mind to work dirt cheap this Summer and see if I can't put some folks with equipment payments under.





You have been around to long to fall into this.
You can't compete with every tree guy with a chainsaw and pick up who wants beer money on the side. Or the utility contractors who are "borrowing" the companies equipment to get beer money on the weekend.
You have to sell her on safety, quality and consistency. None of which are the cheapest low ball bid available. 
You will put yourself back into a worn out pick up and green saw if you try to underbid them.


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## lxt (Apr 9, 2010)

joesawer said:


> You have been around to long to fall into this.
> You can't compete with every tree guy with a chainsaw and pick up who wants beer money on the side. Or the utility contractors who are "borrowing" the companies equipment to get beer money on the weekend.
> You have to sell her on safety, quality and consistency. None of which are the cheapest low ball bid available.
> You will put yourself back into a worn out pick up and green saw if you try to underbid them.





I agree to a point, where im at if the competition can get a bucket to it...then its cheap & how low can ya go, But....if theres climbing involved they shoot the moon which really puts me in a good spot!

So, what I have done & it really pizzes the competitors off is: match their price on the bucket work....it sucks but....I more than make up for it on the climbs, so it equals out!! Do what you gotta do to make a living & sometimes depending on your area...yo gotta join em to beat em!!



LXT................


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## tree md (Apr 9, 2010)

lxt said:


> I agree to a point, where im at if the competition can get a bucket to it...then its cheap & how low can ya go, But....if theres climbing involved they shoot the moon which really puts me in a good spot!
> 
> So, what I have done & it really pizzes the competitors off is: match their price on the bucket work....it sucks but....I more than make up for it on the climbs, so it equals out!! Do what you gotta do to make a living & sometimes depending on your area...yo gotta join em to beat em!!
> 
> ...



X2! I'm with you on that!


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## ronnyb (Apr 10, 2010)

Don't you inform your customers of insurance and what can happen if they have uninsured people work on their properties? When I hand them their estimate I always make it a point to explain our insurance. It helps sell jobs.


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## lxt (Apr 10, 2010)

ronnyb said:


> Don't you inform your customers of insurance and what can happen if they have uninsured people work on their properties? When I hand them their estimate I always make it a point to explain our insurance. It helps sell jobs.




I always promote: insurance, certs, experience...etc.. But nowadays any idiot can buy insurance/ work comp. so does that mean they`re a good company?..............NO!

People have been BS`ed by contractors to a point of fault, right now in this economy with every saw slinger jumping into the trade.....I sell the customer on certs, experience, quality, references & the fact im one of the only tree companies in the area who is registered through the attorney generals office not to mention the code of ethics at ISA. whats this all do? 

It insures the customer that if I screw them like the roofer, home builder, bathroom renovator, etc... that they have a course of action & right now that is going along way, Im booked a month to 5 wks out right now!!




LXT................


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## tree md (Apr 10, 2010)

Price is king here. 

I try to sell them on insurance, spikeless pruning, sound tree care and my track record of being in business for 16 years with no insurance claims or damaged structures. Like LXT said, anyone can get insurance and to tell the truth, most people just don't care about spikeless pruning and sound tree care here. They want the cheapest price and don't seem to mind hiring a bunch of drunks to do it. Don't get me wrong there are some high end clients but I have had people flat out tell me I don't care if you spike it I want a low price. I've lost business because of it. And the ever popular "how bout you just whack it down to here (top it), will that save me some money"???

I am not registered with the attorney general here but I am registered with the city and other organizations where people have some recourse and a public venue to complain if they don't like my work. I try to sell them on that as well.


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## ronnyb (Apr 10, 2010)

I also sell my other credentials- ISA certified Arborist, degree in Arboriculture and in Horticulture, State licensed pesticide applicator, 20 years experience, etc. My core customer base is the upper class wealthty,definitely not the average joe. Details like these are important to this class of customer. When I do bid jobs for working class people, I still stress my credentials. I give my bid, and I find that I still get about 40% of those bids.


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## joesawer (Apr 12, 2010)

ronnyb said:


> I also sell my other credentials- ISA certified Arborist, degree in Arboriculture and in Horticulture, State licensed pesticide applicator, 20 years experience, etc. My core customer base is the upper class wealthty,definitely not the average joe. Details like these are important to this class of customer. When I do bid jobs for working class people, I still stress my credentials. I give my bid, and I find that I still get about 40% of those bids.





If you are getting 40% of your bids, that would throw a very strong warning flag for me.
Without some extreme out of the ordinary conditions, that means you are bidding to cheap!


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## treejockey (Apr 19, 2010)

JS
not always the case. I charge a consultation fee upfront to look at work and take it off the job if I get it. Some say "he" will quote it for free ,why pay you? By explaining the benefits of hiring us (with references to back it up) we can score well over 50% of our bids and we aren't't giving the work away. It is also a good way to discourage the tire kickers! A professional with a good reputation will usually get what he is worth. Honesty, quality workmanship, professionalism always trump a cheap price.


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