# Propane oil pan heater?



## bitzer (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm looking for a way to heat up my oil in the skidder. I don't know if this exists. I see oil pan heaters that are 120v. I'd have to get my generator going for that which is kind of pain because I need to have my propane heater blowing on the generator for 10-15 minutes before it will start. Its just a long pain in the ass process. I also think those electric ones would take a long time. I've already got the quick coupler running hot coolant from my truck through the engine block, but with the really cold temps this year I'd like to help the starts out a little more. I'd also like to be able to heat up my hydraulics more quickly. On mornings when its been 15 to 20 below with the wind chill I've got my truck hooked up to the skidder for 30-40 minutes before I attempt to start it and I've still needed a little snort of ether. The other day I had to jump it to just get it spinning fast enough. I've got two new batteries in the skidder as it is. After I've got it going its another 20-30 minutes before the hydraulics start to move much. Lately its been at least an hour process. I thought about getting a forced air propane heater to blow on stuff. The type that hooks up to a 20lb LP tank. What do you guys do?


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## slowp (Jan 6, 2014)

Da guys up nort had propane blowers they left on all night. If I recall, some even had little blue tarp tents rigged up over the part of the machine to heat. At that time, few worked when temps got below -20 or was it -10, as I found out when making the rounds during -27 weather.

I don't know if the heat was aimed at the oil or no, but they were heating something for easier starting in the morning. 

Most all were totally mechanized sides. 

You could contact your up nort cohorts and check wid dem.


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## mesupra (Jan 6, 2014)

Have you thought about a small 2 stroke harbor freight generator to power the 120v heater, $99.00 or a inverter hooked to your pickup, you could mount it to the inner fender and run a pig tail out he grill. Not sure of the reliability of either one, a good quality inverter is not cheap but would come in handy for other stuff as well.


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## bitzer (Jan 6, 2014)

Miss P I may have to do that. Thanks for the input!

Mesupra- I think the electric heater needs hours to work. I'm looking for minutes. Thanks for the ideas though! I'm thinking the propane blower might be the ticket.


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## Blazin (Jan 6, 2014)

I used a 2000w power inverter and a 70btu kerosene salamander for years. I'd back the truck up to the skidder and have the heater on the tailgate blowing on the block, a couple of pieces of plywood for a diverter and it worked about as fast as anything is gonna. Make sure you got the skidder crabbed when you park it though so you can get it close enough too the block. The hot water hook ups work great but way below 0 you got some thick mud for oil....as you know. Other than that it's the tarp deal which is a PIA!


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## Steve NW WI (Jan 6, 2014)

My experience is that it's a good 2 hours in 0 or below before the electric heaters warm it up enough to start. I broke a spindle on my MF diesel a couple years back, the wore out Perkins doesn't like to start cold, when I got it fixed it was near 0, an hour with a Sunflower (Mr. Heater) aimed at the block and it cranked like summertime.

When it's as cold as it is today, it just don't pay. Me and the neighbor managed to shear off the fuel pump drive on his Deere combine trying to get the last of his corn off in about -10 weather. I understand needing to go, but some days you just gotta say to heck with it.

Hydraulics - I always run the lightest oil I can get away with. On farm tractors, we use a bypass hose that lets oil pump free from one side of the remote to the other to warm the oil without too much restriction, but probably your skidder doesn't have a remote outlet, so just cycling the cylinders till they start to move normally is your best option most likely.


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## Blazin (Jan 6, 2014)

Steve NW WI said:


> My experience is that it's a good 2 hours in 0 or below before the electric heaters warm it up enough to start. I broke a spindle on my MF diesel a couple years back, the wore out Perkins doesn't like to start cold, when I got it fixed it was near 0, an hour with a Sunflower (Mr. Heater) aimed at the block and it cranked like summertime.
> 
> When it's as cold as it is today, it just don't pay. Me and the neighbor managed to shear off the fuel pump drive on his Deere combine trying to get the last of his corn off in about -10 weather. I understand needing to go, but some days you just gotta say to heck with it.
> 
> Hydraulics - I always run the lightest oil I can get away with. On farm tractors, we use a bypass hose that lets oil pump free from one side of the remote to the other to warm the oil without too much restriction, but probably your skidder doesn't have a remote outlet, so just cycling the cylinders till they start to move normally is your best option most likely.



Yep.... sometimes you gotta throw the flag, but sometimes you can't. The excavator I have now, the hydraulic circuit runs thru the radiator cooler, way awesome idea as it''ll heat the fluid as well as cool it.


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## bitzer (Jan 6, 2014)

Blazin said:


> I used a 2000w power inverter and a 70btu kerosene salamander for years. I'd back the truck up to the skidder and have the heater on the tailgate blowing on the block, a couple of pieces of plywood for a diverter and it worked about as fast as anything is gonna. Make sure you got the skidder crabbed when you park it though so you can get it close enough too the block. The hot water hook ups work great but way below 0 you got some thick mud for oil....as you know. Other than that it's the tarp deal which is a PIA!



So is the salamander a torpedo heater? You still need electric to run the blower on em? I've never used one or really seen one up close.


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## bitzer (Jan 6, 2014)

Steve NW WI said:


> My experience is that it's a good 2 hours in 0 or below before the electric heaters warm it up enough to start. I broke a spindle on my MF diesel a couple years back, the wore out Perkins doesn't like to start cold, when I got it fixed it was near 0, an hour with a Sunflower (Mr. Heater) aimed at the block and it cranked like summertime.
> 
> When it's as cold as it is today, it just don't pay. Me and the neighbor managed to shear off the fuel pump drive on his Deere combine trying to get the last of his corn off in about -10 weather. I understand needing to go, but some days you just gotta say to heck with it.
> 
> Hydraulics - I always run the lightest oil I can get away with. On farm tractors, we use a bypass hose that lets oil pump free from one side of the remote to the other to warm the oil without too much restriction, but probably your skidder doesn't have a remote outlet, so just cycling the cylinders till they start to move normally is your best option most likely.


 Yeah I'm not workin today obviously. I'm probably guna hit it tomorrow though. Supposed to warm up into the single negative digits.


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## Blazin (Jan 6, 2014)

bitzer said:


> So is the salamander a torpedo heater? You still need electric to run the blower on em? I've never used one or really seen one up close.



Yeah, a torpedo heater and the 2000 watt power inverter is hooked to your trucks 12v and turns it into 110v for the heater. A lot easier than screwing with a gas powered generator, unless you get one of them little honda's for a grand, the inverters are around $250


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## Keen (Jan 6, 2014)

I use a Mr heater infra red propane heater to get the skidder going on sub zero mornings. Stick it against the oil pan for 30-40 minutes or so. Im sure there is a better way but it works good enough for me. Keep in mind that im only heating up a 5 cylinder deutz with it. I was thinking about making a mount on the hydraulic tank of the forwarder to stick a heater to also. I'm sure within 20-30 minutes or so it would have the hydraulic functioning pretty well. Blew a side wall on the skidder today...... The joys of the job


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## Naked Arborist (Jan 6, 2014)

Ever consider leaving a hot bed of coals under the machine with a tarp over it?

Another idea I had was to set up a drum of oil or coolant with a fire under it, top/bottom quick connects. Hot thermal fluid flow can get the job done without a pump or electric. A homemade outdoor wood boiler could get the job done for many many machines plugged in to it.

Stay thirsty my friends.

Just some thoughts...


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## Blazin (Jan 6, 2014)

Naked Arborist said:


> Ever consider leaving a hot bed of coals under the machine with a tarp over it?
> 
> Another idea I had was to set up a drum of oil or coolant with a fire under it, top/bottom quick connects. Hot thermal fluid flow can get the job done without a pump or electric. A homemade outdoor wood boiler could get the job done for many many machines plugged in to it.
> 
> ...




LMAO! How long you think a bed of coals or a fire is gonna last at -20???  Bitz, you're gonna have to have a trailer now with a OWB on it to take on the jobs, should be cost effective


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## mopar3 (Jan 6, 2014)

What about synthetic diesel oil? The Rotella T6 5w 40 should be a bit thinner and help with cranking speed. 22 bucks a gallon at Walmart might get a bit expensive. But so is waiting and not working.


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## nk14zp (Jan 6, 2014)

I have used the big weed killer propane torch and a 3" elbow to heat up oil pans. But be real careful about fire!


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## mesupra (Jan 6, 2014)

I run rotella t6 full 5-40 in everything I own, lawn mower, generator boat tractor splitter etc, seems like a great oil, it goes on sale at tractor supply for $17.00 . A good friend runs it in his power stroke and frequently has a lab run an analysis on the oil between changes, the lab recommends he run the oil to 13,000 miles vs the 10,000 he has been changing it at, at 10k they said he is pretty much throwing away good oil.


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## mdavlee (Jan 6, 2014)

The 2000 7.3 I had would start a lot better with synthetic oil in it at 0°. I didn't have to give it pedal and help it stay running with the synthetic. With regular oil it wouldn't start the first try and I would cycle the glow plugs twice. My dodge cummins have started at 0° just fine with regular oil. A propane weed burner torch may be your best bet there Bob.


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 6, 2014)

Just installed a 1500 watt coolant heater in a 440B. Starts like a charm after 2-3 hrs.
John


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## northmanlogging (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm dig'n the weed burner Idea cheap portable and fun, but yeah be careful with fire, maybe go A-Team and get some tin roofing to protect some of the greasier spots.

I've been know to fill cut off pop cans with 2-stroke mix and light to warm up stubborn engines, 

The other Idea is to coil some copper tubing around the oil pan and plumb it into the coolant lines from the truck some how, that way the oil heats up same time as the block. Perhaps wrap the works in muffler wrap to keep heat loss at a minimum... just thinking out loud.


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## hammerlogging (Jan 6, 2014)

i vote leave it running until March..


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## bitzer (Jan 7, 2014)

I saw the weed burner idea on Gold Rush. The kid aimed it at the belly pan under the oil pan. Open flames near my oily/greasy beast are not happening. I've heard too many burned up skidder stories and I guarantee the insurance co. would weasel out of it. I did find a battery powered torpedo heater. Supposed to run for 8 hours on a rechargeable battery. They wanted $170 for it. I went with a dual burner that you mount to a 20lb LP tank. I'm thinking aim it at the oil pan and then once shes fired up/ lean it against the hydraulic tank. By tomorrow they are talking single digits already. 20s by Thursday and 30s by Friday. 

Northman- I do like the copper plumbing idea around the pan! That's kind of what I was lookin for. I wonder how well that wood work. It would be cool to have something like that that would be submerged in the oil pan. The coil on the inside and a couple of plug ins on the outside.


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## firebrick43 (Jan 7, 2014)

http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/hangar-ramp-supplies/engine-preheaters/red-mh-300.html

These are used on aircraft in the middle nowhere to preheat but can be used on anything. You would need to make some simple canvas skirts to go over the side opening and radiator opening.

There is another system on the same site that includes above mounted on a cart with battery so it is a stand alone system.

These are safer than salamanders and much much safer than weed burners or any open flame.

There are diesel fired coolant heaters but you won't like the cost. We package them on some of our 4000 hp diesels and are on trains many times.

Hooking up your trucks coolant lines to the machine or a coil around the oil pan would be very hard as the coolant ion the truck would be under pressure.

Don't know what one would cost but maybe buy a class 8 APU from a wrecking yard. APU would heat coolant and the electricity it produces top off batteries and run an electric oil pan heater. 

The old cats with pony motors made extreme cold weather starts nice. They were tied into the coolant system and the exhaust ran thru the intake manifold preheating it.


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## Naked Arborist (Jan 7, 2014)

Blazin said:


> LMAO! How long you think a bed of coals or a fire is gonna last at -20???  Bitz, you're gonna have to have a trailer now with a OWB on it to take on the jobs, should be cost effective



Hey, 95% of my stories are the truth. Don't forget the 1000 gallon tank trailer to feed the OWB


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## northmanlogging (Jan 7, 2014)

I figure you could poke a couple holes though the side of the oil pan and seal em up like a steam boiler, granted its a total pain in the ass, and probably leak more then ever. I'f you have fairly large drain plug you could drill the plug and put a loop in it... These are both probably bad ideas...

The other option is to get some of that coil o copper tubing and a pipe bender, make a couple of laps around the fattest part of the pan and plumb it into the radiator lines. The coil of copper stuff is pretty easy to bend, and if you use a pipe bender of the proper size you can get fairly sharp bends without kinking it to bad. Use the muffler tape stuff to build a sort of blanket around the coils and the pan, or a welding blanket whatever works, could just need a loop around the bottom of the pan (this is all speculative), run it off the end of the loop back to the truck, that way the flow isn't screwed up to bad and once you disconnect the truck it shouldn't have flow through it.

The coolant tie in trick works pretty damn good, used to use that to start the wifey's crap mercedes during winter, for those that don't get it. You put a tee on your heater supply and return lines of the truck, plumb each one to a ball valve, then on the stubborn piece of equipment you do the same thing, although some machines can be difficult to plumb like this an account of not having a heater, make up a set of connecting hoses, pull up close connect A to B open all the valves wait 10-30 minutes and start er up all warmed up. Just make sure you're using similar coolants/antifreeze, and keep them topped up (tend to loose a little bit when connecting the hoses and stuff)


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## Naked Arborist (Jan 8, 2014)

You need to make up your mind to heat the coolant or the oil. Myself I'd heat the oil with a small copper or SS coil at the base of the pan or running through it with a few loops. Propane fired would be your easiest and fastest heat source. Hang the bottle on the machine and put a push button tip igniter on it. Leave the exit tube longer and clear of all combustibles.


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## homemade (Jan 11, 2014)

I'd say weed burner on the ground under the machine with a few tarps over it, cover the machine when you shut down to keep the heat in and toe cold out as long as possible. For cheap they make portable pop up shelters with sides that might be feesable? I don't know how many machines or so in. One thing I learned too is location where you park them. Ie don't park it on the top of a bald hill. Wedge it by some trees to help block the wind. I've used a smaller hand held torch to warm up the intake manifold. I also heard that silicone spray is better then ether because it lubes the cylinder and less flash point to prevent ether lock.


Sent from the shitter, the only place it get to read arboristsite!


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## OlympicYJ (Jan 16, 2014)

Seen an old Fairbanks-Morse diesel heated with a torch. I'd just scrape the oil off and use the weedburner. I'll ask the old man what they did on the pipeline but in super cold weather they never shut anything off and lots of times they were running multiple shifts so didn't have to. Also had the big heaters and tents. Kinda hard to start something in 50 below. Maybe a crap ton of pan heaters on the pan and the hyd tank and a little honda/yamaha generator running all night. North's Idea with the coolant tie in lines sounds like a good one.

Side note thinking about cold, frozen gravel wears out D8 & 9 single shank rippers like non-other. The old man would sit at the end of the pit with a pickup load of shanks and every time the cat would come back to start a new pass he'd have to knock out the ripper and put in a new shank. If I remember right they glowed red when they pulled em out of the ground.


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## Ak650Echo (Jan 18, 2014)

Might give theses a go.

http://www.engineblockheater.net/page1.html

http://www.translectricinc.com/catalog/partdetail.aspx?partno=LP6500-24V


http://www.espar.com/products/fuel-operated-heaters.html


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## imalogger (Jan 21, 2014)

I use a yamaha 2400 inverter generator mainly. Since I'm usually working alone I'll get the generator going on the machine as soon as I get to the site, then go drop trees for an hour or 2 til the skidder is ready to roll. Those inverter generators are small/light enough to fit in the cab of the truck so you know they will be warm and start good when ya get to the site. The skidder has one of those 2000 watt recirculating tank heaters plus it's got a 1000 watt block heater. I'll run 2 generators on it if I'm in a real hurry, gets it warm pretty quick. I think if I was you I'd just use a honda 2000 inverter with an aux fuel tank on it and start it up when you leave at night, and just keep it warm all night. I doubt it would take a whole lot more fuel than idling your truck for an hour or fuel for a big lp heater. If you have a john deere skidder with the rotary pump you can turn the screw in on the pump to disengage it till the engine is running, they start soo much easier without the drag of the pump when it's cold. For heating up the oil in our manlift on real cold days I took apart one of the oil filled electric space heaters and took the heater element, and wired it up to a cord. The tank has a big enough cap on it that I can drop the heater down into the oil, makes everything a lot less stiff when it's cold.


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## wowzers (Jan 23, 2014)

I worked on a Thunderbird that had a propane heater deal. It had a tarp that went over the engine compartment.


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