# Clearing a lot



## Baz (Sep 7, 2006)

I'm clearing a 60' x 180' lot. Rough ground, mix of maple, ash, locust, honeysuckle, grape vines, old tires, etc. Would you drop everything first, then limb, buck & chip, or clean up each tree as you go? I went with the first way to minimize rental fees for chipper, but would appreciate other points of view. Thanks.


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## begleytree (Sep 7, 2006)

LOL
I just finished a 1.5 acre job just like this last week (rough terrain). If you have to underbrush, do that first so you can see and so you don't have to fight wood and brush through it. Rent a billygoat mower (walk-behind bushhog) and clear it all out, then drop what you must, stack the brush where you can get to it easily. I too had to rent a chipper as mine would go into the area, but wouldn't come out without a large tow truck with lots of winch cable and blocks for redirects, and I couldn't get my tractor and bushhog into it. On mine, the wood stayed and the brush could be blown as chips. Maybe yours is a total removal of all debris? I pulled the rental vermeer 625 toy behind my 4 wheeler to the brush piles.
I had 3 days on it, sorta. 4 hrs underbrush, 9 hrs felling, bucking, and stacking wood, 6 hrs playing with the toy chipper with the insane autofeed 'feature'.
By your measurements you're looking at 1/4 acre, should be a cake walk unless you have a lot of big stuff comming down.
-Ralph


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 7, 2006)

WHy are you clearing the lot?


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## begleytree (Sep 7, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> WHy are you clearing the lot?



I know you didn't ask me, but we had a big ice storm in '03. opened up the woods for crap and briars to grow. This was a nice hardwood forest area, all oaks, hickories and a few sugar maples. now its open on the ground, all trees left, all dead ones removed. now the guy can get thru it and enjoy his property again. makes for a nice area to relax and take walks. instead of a big thorny brushpile like it was.
-Ralph


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 7, 2006)

I only asked because if he were building a house, I give some tips.


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## clearance (Sep 7, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> WHy are you clearing the lot?


Who cares why, listen up Baz, a 200 or slightly smaller excavator (hoe) with a hydraulic thumb, bin the crap, branches, stumps, tops, culls etc. out of there. Get the hoe to deck any decent logs. Anyway else is a freaking huge waste of time, this is 2006, not "Little House on the Prarie" old days, pulling stumps with horses time. Cleared means cleared, raw earth left, everthing gone.


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## DDM (Sep 7, 2006)

Forget binning it, bins cost money just dig a big hole and bury it all.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 7, 2006)

clearance said:


> Who cares why, listen up Baz, a 200 or slightly smaller excavator (hoe) with a hydraulic thumb, bin the crap, branches, stumps, tops, culls etc. out of there. Get the hoe to deck any decent logs. Anyway else is a freaking huge waste of time, this is 2006, not "Little House on the Prarie" old days, pulling stumps with horses time. Cleared means cleared, raw earth left, everthing gone.


Developers even scrape off the topsoil.


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## Baz (Sep 7, 2006)

I get to leave the stumps for the dozer, but all wood & brush go. I think the site was a construction dumping ground 30 yrs ago. Now that most of the brush is out, the ground looks like the mogul section on a ski run, minus the mountain. There's no way I'm getting anything with wheels in there! I might try cabling armloads of brush together & towing it out to the adjoining parking lot to chip it there. Hiring a squad of the local high school football team to carry the wood out- maybe I can sell the idea to their coach as conditioning...


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## clearance (Sep 7, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> Developers even scrape off the topsoil.


Yes they do, and then sell it, guess who buys it back to landscape the yard it came from?


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## begleytree (Sep 7, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> I only asked because if he were building a house, I give some tips.



dang Mike, don't hold out on us. tips are always usefull, I file them away in the ole brain for the day I need them.
Never knew you to post bad info.
-Ralph


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## DDM (Sep 7, 2006)

Hmmmmmmm Football team & Liability.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 7, 2006)

DDM said:


> Hmmmmmmm Football team & Liability.


Did I give bad football team liability advice? Or was that aimed at somebody else?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 7, 2006)

begleytree said:


> dang Mike, don't hold out on us. tips are always usefull, I file them away in the ole brain for the day I need them.
> Never knew you to post bad info.
> -Ralph


Do the little stuff first. You can use a weed eater type tool with a metal blade. They cut 2, 3, 4" stuff, no problem.
Don't cut the big stuff until you have a building permit and it's staked out. Then, only cut what's needed. 
Before the rest of the contractors come in, it's real important to set up root protection fences for any trees you hope to save. Not a row of stakes with caution tape either. You'll want a good fence, that contractors will be afraid to knock over.
Communicate with all the contractors too. Establish fines for crossing the fence.
It's good to preserve existing trees, they're free.


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## jazak (Sep 7, 2006)

Saw a BIG job just done here, NOT by me though. About 1/2 an acre full of full mature trees the guy had 2 tractor trailer logging trucks FULL + more trees still on the ground and a Sterling tandem axle dump with a Morbark 18. Big job for around here.


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## DDM (Sep 7, 2006)

Baz said:


> Hiring a squad of the local high school football team to carry the wood out- maybe I can sell the idea to their coach as conditioning...



Must have missed this mike.


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## Ax-man (Sep 7, 2006)

What weedeater type tool witha metal blade can cut 4" dia. material???? Cockleburrs, thistles and horseweeds yes, but woody trees ??? They would have to be awful softwooded trees like Basswood and Populars I think I better ask Sthil for a refund on my 550 clearing saw if a weedeater with a metal blade can cut 4" dia. hardwood tree brush.

Larry


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## begleytree (Sep 7, 2006)

yeah ax, I started my job off using a weedeater and metal blade. takes way too long, too hard, and leaves a lot of brush that a walkbehind bushhog mulches up for you, no mess, no more touching it.
all I could get was about 2" dia material with my setup
-Ralph


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## Baz (Sep 8, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> WHy are you clearing the lot?


A business wants to expand their parking lot.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 8, 2006)

Here's the weedeater we use. It handles 4" stuff no problem. The only limit to the size you can cut is the distance from the blade edge to the center hub, which is about 4". If you come in from both sides, you can even cut bigger stuff. 
You just wind up the motor and swing away. A 3" tree doesn't even slow down the swinging motion.

We cut the little stuff first, then start on one edge and cut the medium stuff, then do the big notch and drops last. 
You definitely want to clean up, or at least organize the brush, as you go. There's not much worse than trying to pull apart a big tangled mess of brush. We call it staging the brush. Put it in rows, with the butts all facing one way, where you can easily drive to with the chipper. Don't make big piles, spread them out in "arm full" piles, then just drive along shoving the stuff in the chipper.
If you wan to reduce the time you have the chipper, cut the small and medium stuff and get it staged, then bring in the chipper. It's nice to do the big trees with the chipper there.
Make sure you cut the stumps low and flat, they will pop a tire.


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## Ax-man (Sep 8, 2006)

That is the same set-up I have, only I swapped out that chainsaw type blade it came with for one of those tri-cut blades. The chainsaw type blade to me seems like it would get dull quick cutting down real low down in the dirt especially if rocks are present. Those tri-cuts give the most bang for the buck to me, but won't cut a 4" tree with out abusing the machine. I'll have to try that chainsaw type balde to see if it will cut 4"in material.

Mike, to me a weedeater is something with a string on it for puttering around your yard trimming grass. What we are talking about are clearing saws for cutting rough material with heavy duty cutting blades. I know the two are built along the same design lines but to me there is a difference. I'm sure you also know how dangerous those clearing saws can be when compared to a weedeater trimmer for doing lawn work. 

Larry


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 8, 2006)

There are two types of blades I've seen, one actually has chain saw chain on the outside edge of the blade, these suck. The other type, which is the one that works, is a flat metal plate with teeth all around the outside.







It is like a chainsaw chain, in that you need to keep it sharp. You also need a special tool to bend the cutters out as you sharpen them back. Like a chainsaw, if you hit the ground or a rock for just a second, it's dull. 
Get your straps all adjusted so the machine fits you and when you swing there is no tendancy to hit the ground.
You can cut a little high and then go back and get the stump with more control, once the tree is moved away.
I found you can sharpen the blade with a cordless angle grinder, in just a minute or two. If you want it perfect, touch it up with a file.


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## clearance (Sep 8, 2006)

clearance said:


> Who cares why, listen up Baz, a 200 or slightly smaller excavator (hoe) with a hydraulic thumb, bin the crap, branches, stumps, tops, culls etc. out of there. Get the hoe to deck any decent logs. Anyway else is a freaking huge waste of time, this is 2006, not "Little House on the Prarie" old days, pulling stumps with horses time. Cleared means cleared, raw earth left, everthing gone.


Out to waste time I see, Baz, what is the problem with using a hoe to do it all, do you really need the money, do you want to do N-work for no good reason? A hoe with a thumb and a decent op. can load that crap into a triple axle bin trailer and be done in one day. The hoe can stay for the dump trucks bringing in the fill for the parking lot, it can move the topsoil and spread the fill. Mike, why are you talking about weedeaters, waste of freaking time. I give up now, send in the clowns.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 8, 2006)

The lot is only 60'x180'. You can bring in an excavator and load dump trucks all day, then what? Pay to dump it. Do you know what dump fees are in different parts of the world? 
The best way to do a large lot clearing is to first go through and get what you can with a brush mower, then a shears, then the chainsaw. Chip the brush with a self propelled 20"+ chipper with grapple. Then grind out the stumps with a dedicated, track mounted, stump grinder.
A small company doesn't have equipment like this. Small lots can be very effectively cleared with a handheld clearing saw, a chainsaw, a chipper, and a small stump grinder. 
You can sell or give away the chips, and sell the saw logs and firewood. I've done jobs where selling the wood made me more money than I got paid on the job.
Baz might be able to get the job done in the time it takes Clearance to call around trying to find somebody to take all that waste material from his stupid idea of using a hoe to push down the trees.


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## TackleTree (Sep 8, 2006)

I would get a 4x4 atv with a pull behing brush hog. The pull behind is a self contained unit and the atv will go anywhere. It knocks down the small stuff quick. http://www.powersportsnetwork.com/e...&product=188022&cattype=&ProductCategoryCode=


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## clearance (Sep 8, 2006)

Mike, I'll forgive you because you obviuosly havn't much land clearing experience. If the stumps are grinded, thats not good enough, a hoe will rip them right out, roots and all, in minutes. When you put in a parking lot or a road, it is best to get out as much organic material as reasonably possible, and then use a packed base to start. If you pave over skank, it will crack, a gravel parking lot will soon be full of potholes. Anyways, that is how lots are cleared here, a big hoe shows up, triple axle bin, end of the day, raw earth, pile of logs on the edge of the road for the self loader. Done, I believe you are in the U.S. where hydraulic excavators were invented, why do you want to act like third world villagers? Could it be that being arborists you always think small, and perhaps are limited in knowledge?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 8, 2006)

When you grind a stump, the wood just gets mixed in with the topsoil, which you know is scraped off and hauled away. There is nothing left over to rot and cause a crack in the parking lot.
Maybe you've never seen a commercial sized stumper in action. It's ever bit as fast and economical as an excavator and dump truck, goes deeper than the stump, and there are no dump fees. All the wood is mixed in with the topsoil, enriching that.
We used to be allowed to haul stumps, wood and chips to the landfill, not any more. We need to recycle it all, and in the recycling is profit. 
In the old days, everthing got pushed into a pile with a D-9, then some old tires and few gallons of diesel oil and a fire and it was gone, what a waste.


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## clearance (Sep 8, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> When you grind a stump, the wood just gets mixed in with the topsoil, which you know is scraped off and hauled away. All the wood is mixed in with the topsoil, enriching that.


OK, the topsoil has to be hauled away, so bring a hoe in to load it out when the same machine could have done it all? And your suggestion Treeco, what is wrong with just saying "A hoe will do this job cheaper and faster, thank you for offering me the work" But of course not, thats why you guys work on the same p.o.s. trees over and over, billing the snot outta people instead of just cutting it down and getting paid once. Thats the mentality, as many billable hours as possible.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 8, 2006)

The loader can't do the job as cheap as a tree service, if even at all. You're suggesting dumping at over $500 per load, instead of getting paid for the wood products.
The stump grindings, for example, add to the top soil volume, which is now selling for about $18 a yard. A good stump is about 3 or 4 yards. You profit $60 instead of paying that much or more per stump to dump. Now do the math. That's about $120 per stump, times the number of stumps. 
Now, why can't Baz do this job?
It sounds like a nice job for a small tree service. He can get some cutting experience, load up on some firewood to split when things get slow, get some wood chips to sell or use for construction site protection areas, maybe make some cash on a saw log or two, and even get paid at the end of the day.


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## Baz (Sep 8, 2006)

The general contractor for this job has an excavator lined up to remove the stumps and topsoil, and fill in the 20' slope in the lot. I don't know why he's not having the excavator knock down the trees. I can use the chips & firewood, and my expenses are low- a rented chipper for a day, and my 2 sons' help for a few hours. Plus they get to drop a few trees without having to worry about dropping them on someone's house. A win for everybody.


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## Yellowdog (Sep 9, 2006)

We can usually clear a small lot like that in a few hours using the right tools.

If you need to underbrush, rent a bobcat and brushcat. If the terrain is too rough, use a clearing saw on small stuff around big trees. Rent a tree shear or sub a shear out if you don't have to remove stumps. If you have to remove stumps, you can still uproot with a big enough bobcat. You can set stumps aside to grind or haul off and chip the rest of the brush and logs. 
If you drop the trees and chip as you go that can be equally effective if you have skidsteer to move the bigger trees as you go. You can grind stumps after the fact. It all depends on the final use of the lot and whether they want it scraped or "sculpted" for aesthetics.

Good luck!


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## B-Edwards (Sep 10, 2006)

Do not bury anything because if it doesnt haunt you it will some1. Where i live the local contractor who built most of the houses buried everything in the driveways. People are now having to rip up the pavement and dig this stuff out and haul it away. You can tell every house this man built every driveway unless repaired has a sunk in place. Says alot about his homes too.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 10, 2006)

Yellowdog said:


> We can usually clear a small lot like that in a few hours using the right tools.
> 
> If you need to underbrush, rent a bobcat and brushcat. If the terrain is too rough, use a clearing saw on small stuff around big trees. Rent a tree shear or sub a shear out if you don't have to remove stumps. If you have to remove stumps, you can still uproot with a big enough bobcat. You can set stumps aside to grind or haul off and chip the rest of the brush and logs.
> If you drop the trees and chip as you go that can be equally effective if you have skidsteer to move the bigger trees as you go. You can grind stumps after the fact. It all depends on the final use of the lot and whether they want it scraped or "sculpted" for aesthetics.
> ...


How much do you think he can bid a 60'x180' lot clearing for?
Who rents out tree shears and brushcats?
Dig out the stumps with a bobcat? Grind them after they're out? Haul them off to where?
Good suggestions.


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## PeteS (Sep 10, 2006)

View attachment 37907


View attachment 37911


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For a small clearing we use a bobcat, chipper and chip truck. On the bigger jobs, the toys come in handy.


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