# Black Walnut trees...how much



## Dan-o (Dec 26, 2009)

My dad has 7 blackwalnut trees that he is planning on taking down. All 7 of them are over 16" in diameter, my question is how do we find out the value of these trees to see if it is worth selling them. I know black walnut is used for gunstocks and veneer, and have heard they can be valuable. Where is the best place to start?

Thank you


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## Curlycherry1 (Dec 26, 2009)

Dan-o said:


> My dad has 7 blackwalnut trees that he is planning on taking down. All 7 of them are over 16" in diameter, my question is how do we find out the value of these trees to see if it is worth selling them. I know black walnut is used for gunstocks and veneer, and have heard they can be valuable. Where is the best place to start?
> 
> Thank you



A local forester or sawmill can help you put a value on the logs. Don't expect to get rich unless they are veneer quality logs (clear all sides with no hint of any defect). I can buy all the walnut I want for ~$3.50/bd ft sawn, dried, virtually no sapwood, and almost clear. So working backwards you can probably expect to get somewhere between a buck a board foot to maybe 2 on the stump (if you are lucky). Scaling the logs is easy to find out how much lumber might be in them just google Doyle or International log scale. Both give different results, but they are close. Which scale a mill uses is up to them.


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## caliman99 (Dec 26, 2009)

Don't know where the trees are located, but here's a link to a very good fact sheet about the value of "urban" (in other words, "not in the middle of a forest") Black Walnut trees:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/for-fact/0044.html

Relevant information needed to even guess: are you measuring the diameter at breast height? How tall is the useable trunk section of each tree (straight trunk before any branches or forks)? How free of defects are the trunks?

The gist: they are probably not worth anything, money-wise... Even if the useable trunk sections are the bare minimum 8', and absolutely perfect, Black Walnut has a relatively large sapwood layer (3" or more). So even in a perfect 16" DBH tree, you are already down to 10" diameter heartwood at most. Remove the pith and you lose at least another inch, even if the pith follows a perfectly straight path. Hopefully you see what I'm getting at...

The yield would be tiny, even if the trees are perfect. Mills (at least where I live) won't take anything less than 20" diameter, 8' long with no structural defects. And unless there is something incredible about the tree, they won't take an urban tree at all, because it is almost guaranteed to have metal embedded in it. 

*But *there's good news if you look at the "value" of the trees in a different way.... Why not see if there are any woodworkers, especially turners, in your area you could give the wood to? Some might even be equipped to take them down for you in exchange for the trunk wood. Any decent turner would probably turn a bowl or hollow form for you, in appreciation, without even being asked. You would know that your trees would be used in fine work that will last many years and be used and/or appreciated.

In my experience, people tend to overestimate the value of their trees that happen to be one of the "marquee" species, and end up disappointed and frustrated. If they shift from thinking of the trees as dollars to thinking of them as raw material for a local artisan, they are more satisfied, and usually end up with a beautiful natural-edge bowl to set on the mantle and admire.

Of course, this is all just my humble opinion. Your trees might very well be covered in burls, and you could end up getting $5,000 per tree from a veneer buyer. And if that's the case, I'd be honestly glad I was wrong and congratulate you. 

Please post follow ups. I'm curious to know how it goes. Good luck!


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## Dan-o (Dec 26, 2009)

thanks for the responses, I will see who we can find to give us an idea of what we have, or if it is better suited for firewood! Since we both heat with wood! I will let you know as soon as I find out.

Thanks Again


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## 385XP (Dec 26, 2009)

How ruff are these trees as far as cat faces nots and limbs? Is there iron in them? Are they close to buildings power lines ? How tall are they? They would have to be pretty nice trees for a logger to really mess with.


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## larman (Dec 27, 2009)

my dad use to work for this place out of ind. http://www.millerveneers.com/
didnt know if they was still going till i looked em up on the web try them was good when dad worked for them in the 60s i know thats been a while but cant hurt to try
larry


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## WoodViking (Dec 27, 2009)

*help me out here guys!*



caliman99 said:


> Don't know where the trees are located, but here's a link to a very good fact sheet about the value of "urban" (in other words, "not in the middle of a forest") Black Walnut trees:
> 
> http://ohioline.osu.edu/for-fact/0044.html
> 
> ...



Sorry Caliman99 I tried to rep you for this post - but hit the wrong button

Somebody please rep him for me!?


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## caliman99 (Dec 27, 2009)

Dan-o said:


> ... or if it is better suited for firewood!



_(Okay, one last good-natured shot at influencing you to support your local woodworkers... ) _

Firewood?!?!? 

*Choice A*: Let your trees, which are arguably the finest, most prized North American wood, be used by craftsmen to make what are literally works of art, objects that will last for generations:

. . . _an heirloom chair used by a grandfather to rock his grandchild to sleep

. . . gunstocks on a hunting rifle a mother uses to bring home Christmas dinner for her family; 

. . . a solemn handcarved urn that holds the ashes of a beloved blue-tick hound

. . . a squat heavy simple bowl that stores dried apples all through the winter

. . . a frame a young husband makes for his bride to hold their wedding pictures_

All of them made from an instantly recognizable wood, a complex river of chocolate browns, dusty purples and reddish-golden veins that glow even in candlelight...


 OR


*Choice B*: Burn it.



Seriously, good luck with the project!


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## caliman99 (Dec 27, 2009)

WoodViking said:


> Sorry Caliman99 I tried to rep you for this post - but hit the wrong button
> 
> Somebody please rep him for me!?



embarassing admission: I don't know what "rep" means... should I be thanking you, or should I be anger-sawing in my workshop?


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## Mike Van (Dec 27, 2009)

I made a desk for my wife out of some crappy old walnut firewood logs, she likes it!


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## demographic (Dec 27, 2009)

WoodViking said:


> Sorry Caliman99 I tried to rep you for this post - but hit the wrong button
> 
> Somebody please rep him for me!?



Done.


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## buzz sawyer (Dec 27, 2009)

WoodViking said:


> Sorry Caliman99 I tried to rep you for this post - but hit the wrong button
> 
> Somebody please rep him for me!?



I got him too. 

Right on with the thickness of the sapwood, but I've had some kiln dried and most of the sapwood took on the darker color. The texture is still a little softer than the heartwood, so it may or may not be suitable for certain projects. 

I haven't seen this question yet - why take them down? If they are growing well and cared for, they may well be worth some $$$ in 30 - 40 years.


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## Dan-o (Dec 27, 2009)

The seven trees are around a garden, and he wants them removed. 

I plan on keeping some of the wood and getting it milled down, not sure what I will do with it yet though. He has a neighbor that is into woodworking and he plans on asking him if he is interested too. 

Not sure the height on most of these trees, but they are all over 40 years old.


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## jimmysisson (Dec 27, 2009)

*move the garden?*

There's a problem with the garden there that taking the trees out won't solve for a long while: http://gardening-articles.com/Black Walnut Tree Toxicity.htm
Some plants can live with walnuts, many can't. Does he have another place he can put his garden? I agree the wood is great when it's used to make something people will use.
Jim


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## southernoutdoor (Dec 27, 2009)

I know this is off topic, but I would also like to know what the deal is with the "rep" business


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## Curlycherry1 (Dec 27, 2009)

southernoutdoor said:


> I know this is off topic, but I would also like to know what the deal is with the "rep" business



Underneath each person's name is an icon and if you click on it you will get a pop up window where you add to a person's "rep" by saying you agree or disagree with their post. It is used to reward people for posting good information that helped you or if you think the person is a smuck you can add negative rep.

There are "rep hos" in the off topic area and all they do is work hard to gain rep for not really posting anything. They even have a mutual admiration thread going so as to skip the whole need to post anything idea.

Now go rep me for helping you with what rep is.


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## southernoutdoor (Dec 27, 2009)

thanks and I did!


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## caliman99 (Dec 27, 2009)

Mike Van said:


> I made a desk for my wife out of some crappy old walnut firewood logs, she likes it!



I can see why she likes it. That's a great looking piece of furniture, especially from "crappy old firewood!" It's one thing to be able to make something nice from milled, kiln dried lumber, but work like that from FIREWOOD?!?! Impressive. Love the finish too.



buzz sawyer said:


> but I've had some kiln dried and most of the sapwood took on the darker color.



I did not know that. *Very, very interesting information*. When I turn walnut, I always end up keeping more sapwood in the piece than I planned because of the great contrast (plus the sapwood has just as much luster as the heart). But now you've given me ideas for experimenting with the sapwood. Thanks for that info!!



Dan-o said:


> I plan on keeping some of the wood and getting it milled down, not sure what I will do with it yet though. He has a neighbor that is into woodworking and he plans on asking him if he is interested too.



Hey, if you have trouble finding a mill that will take it, don't forget about the option of chainsaw milling. I don't know if you have welding equipment, but with poor skills and my cheap wire welder, I made my own Alaskan-type mill to make lumber out of a couple of Black Acacias. The welds are ugly as hell, but it works great. And since mills charge $150 an hour to mill logs for you, it made $ sense. 

You have all the time you need to get inspired about what to do with the boards. As long as you store them well, they'll just get better with age. 

I hope you have some cool surprises when you start cutting. Curl (and other figure) is fairly common in walnut. And be sure to pay special attention to any crotches. If cut correctly, crotch wood is guaranteed to be spectacular.

And right on for you and your Dad being so generous with the neighbor. Scientific studies have proven: help out a woodworker and it adds years to your life 



jimmysisson said:


> Some plants can live with walnuts, many can't.
> Jim



Very good point. There's something almost sinister about a tree that makes it's own herbicide (Juglone). Seems like 80% of the time that's why people want them gone. And it's hard to argue with. You can even "see" a walnut's root structure by following the trails of dead landscaping...

Thanks for the info on "repping."


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## caliman99 (Dec 27, 2009)

Curlycherry1 said:


> Now go rep me for helping you with what rep is.



Thanks and done. 

Now what are those stars about? 

I apologize for one more off-topic bit: when i rep somebody, does it make my little green dots go away? Whoa... ain't that a kick in the head... LOL

Is there a FAQ or topic where all that kind of stuff is spelled out? I searched the site but what I found wasn't very detailed (no offense meant at all).


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 27, 2009)

WoodViking said:


> Sorry Caliman99 I tried to rep you for this post - but hit the wrong button
> 
> Somebody please rep him for me!?





I got him. Good post!


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 27, 2009)

Mike Van said:


> I made a desk for my wife out of some crappy old walnut firewood logs, she likes it!






Ooooooh! That's some nice looking wood! 


Although it's too dark to be used a lot in most rooms, I have to admit I love walnut. Oak is nice, but walnut is king in my book.


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## Curlycherry1 (Dec 27, 2009)

You guys should see what curly walnut looks like in a finished piece. Here is a coffee table I made for my SIL out of curly walnut. The flash on the camera made it look much lighter in color than it is in real life.


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## caliman99 (Dec 28, 2009)

Curlycherry1 said:


> Here is a coffee table I made for my SIL out of curly walnut.



Nice!

I know in person that surface probably looks like you could dive right into it!


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## johncinco (Dec 29, 2009)

Where in IN are you? How far from the MI border? I might be able to put you in touch with a guy in SW MI that wants walnut, and will give you a "fair" price.


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