# 404 vs 3/8



## sierratree (Sep 1, 2011)

When would you need a 404 pitch instead of 3/8? Seems like the 404 would be for bigger wiood? The downside is having to change out the sprocket to 3/8 for smaller wood? Man, I would have to change over all my bars and chain to 404 to stay with it...........


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## madhatte (Sep 2, 2011)

My opinion is that .404 was a transition from 1/2 to 3/8 that never completely went away. I don't know any applications where a high-revving modern saw would be better suited with the larger chain.


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## Joe46 (Sep 2, 2011)

Always ran 404X .063 chain on my 2100. Pretty much ran 36" bars and up on it. Back when I was cutting, I don't think they had 3/8 X .063 chain, But I could be wrong??


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## sierratree (Sep 2, 2011)

welp, right now we're running 3/8 with .050. Would you suggest going .063? what would be the advantage?

>> I have a 48" bar which comes with a .404 sprocket, so when I have the need, got to switch it out. I do not think there is a 48" bar with 3/8. That's the delema.


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## Slamm (Sep 2, 2011)

I tried .404 Semi Chisel for awhile for bucking up dirty logs or really hard maple logs in Wisconsin, the bigger tooth seemed to hold its edge better or better stated would still cut when "duller", but it does take more HP to run, but on shorter bars not so noticeable. It did cut a wider kerf and it was possible to cut out of a pinch a little better. I don't know that the benefits as so grand as to bother with the aforementioned issues of multiple chain and sprocket running.

I just run harder Stihl 3/8" chain and that solved the edge retention issue for me and I just got better at not getting pinched, LOL, so that solved that issue, after that not many "plus's".

My experience and opinion,

Sam


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## hammerlogging (Sep 3, 2011)

sierratree said:


> welp, right now we're running 3/8 with .050. Would you suggest going .063? what would be the advantage?
> 
> >> I have a 48" bar which comes with a .404 sprocket, so when I have the need, got to switch it out. I do not think there is a 48" bar with 3/8. That's the delema.



As I evolved from east coast to a more western setup for cutting, my bar size grew from 20 to 28 to 32 to 34. It wasn't until I went to the 34 that I switched to .063. The fallers I was working with in WV were running .063 but realy didn't know why. I talked to Burv about it and he said he thought .063 was truer in the cut and I'd throw my chain less on these longer bars. He was absolutley right.


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## madhatte (Sep 3, 2011)

It also takes a bit more doing to bung up .063 when you throw a chain, though it takes more to un-bung it as well.


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## Eccentric (Sep 4, 2011)

I've heard/read that .063G carries the oil better on long bars. Guessing it wouldn't matter much until you started pushing 48" and longer....


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## treeoperations (Sep 4, 2011)

the old logger i used to work with reacons that 404 was for when the quality wasnt there as bigger chain is stronger obviously but with the new chains the 3/8 is just as strong. 

the differance between the 050 and 063 gauge is the 063 runs better when your bar length is over 28" 

just what a old logger thinks and im pretty sure hes right


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## Frank Savage (Sep 4, 2011)

Something from mid europe...
Where I grew up, old mans used the 404 for big or knotty trees, mostly beech. Also it´s probably unbeatable in dirty conditions, considering the off-shelf availibility. As I watched and asked them (and from some limited personal experience), it holds the edge way better than 3/8. Sometimes, where the 404 starts to lose the edge, 3/8 almost or even literaly lose teeths. Simply because a 1/8 in. grit or schrapnel piece can move freely in and make it´s way through the big kerf and inner space of teeths, but in 3/8, it merely stucks there.
In very wet conditions, or while cutting in or partialy in water (after flood clearings, for example), it holds the oil better. The kerf is wider, wheelin´ is easier and more efective. Big help when cutting large snags with bottoms full of water, where the wood expands instantly into the kerf.
Always the old mans used 404 for wood from places where some more serious fights took place during WW2, since they claimed that with the stronger "bounce" of the 404 in the kerf, they can feel the hard spot (schrapnel) before they actualy hit it. I don´t judge this claim, I wouldn´t judge methods of 70 years old man who used the saw since about 1955 to 1989 in wood like that...
always it seemed to me that with 90+ cube saw, especialy with the slower revving, the 404 is always faster over the 3/8, not counting the chain maitenance time. If so, then it was even faster for the old mans and so was for me in wet, gritty, flooded hardwood.


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## Samlock (Sep 4, 2011)

madhatte said:


> My opinion is that .404 was a transition from 1/2 to 3/8 that never completely went away. I don't know any applications where a high-revving modern saw would be better suited with the larger chain.



One application is cutting ice - 2-3 feet or even thicker - for ice fishing, releasing the boats, ponds for swimming etc. The wider kerf is a good thing and I guess .404 oils the bar better.


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