# Helio lost on Axe men



## SirElliott (Apr 14, 2009)

WTF? Give me a break. Where is the nav gear on that helio? Trying to fly VFR in IFR conditions is stupid. Helio logging is dangerous enough without bonehead moves like getting stuck in the fog without the ability to find your LZ. For the cost of a GPS they would have lost a pilot and aircraft. They are the Aqua loggers of the sky.


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## wood4heat (Apr 14, 2009)

That show is all Hollywood BS, they try to make everything life and death. I don't believe he was lost.


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## howellhandmade (Apr 14, 2009)

I tend to agree. Far too many shots of the copter through the fog from the ground. Hard to believe they would put something that expensive in the air without better nav equipment. Plus the shot of the guy holding the unlit signal flare AFTER the pilot says he only has five minutes' gas left. Those flares burn way longer than five minutes; if your pilot really is lost, LIGHT the darned thing.

Jack


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## Hlakegollum (Apr 14, 2009)

Why no GPS?


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## JCBearss (Apr 14, 2009)

THANK YOU and then I say to myself where is his GPS now in the most recent episodie but alas no GPS


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## stihlms460 (Apr 14, 2009)

wood4heat said:


> That show is all Hollywood BS, they try to make everything life and death. I don't believe he was lost.



:agree2:


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## Rookie1 (Apr 14, 2009)

Hollywood. Thats all there is to say about the whole show. Its a shame.


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## tomtrees58 (Apr 14, 2009)

Rookie1 said:


> Hollywood. Thats all there is to say about the whole show. Its a shame.



:agree2:tomtrees


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## Jkebxjunke (Apr 14, 2009)

shoot a $150 gps from walmart would be better than nothing...


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## smokechase II (Apr 14, 2009)

*Foreign places*

*"THANK YOU and then I say to myself where is his GPS now in the most recent episodie but alas no GPS "*

They don't get GPS in Montana.

Big Sky means we don't have enough satellites to provide coverage there.

============

Look; I'm just glad that Warshingtun and Montania are taking some of the pressure off of Oregon for logger judgment awards.


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## Jtheo (Apr 14, 2009)

Well, the chopper couldn't have been lost because someone had a camera on it, possibly from another chopper.

If it was really lost, all you would have seen was fog.:greenchainsaw:


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## turnkey4099 (Apr 15, 2009)

Every incident you see on that show is staged. Can you say "fake"? I knew you could. Last year was bad for faked 'disasters'. This year has taken it to the asinine extreme.

Harry K


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## Metals406 (Apr 15, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> *"THANK YOU and then I say to myself where is his GPS now in the most recent episodie but alas no GPS "*
> 
> They don't get GPS in Montana.
> 
> ...



We don't have internet in Montana either... 

:greenchainsaw:


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## slowp (Apr 15, 2009)

Uh, the pilot flying out here went by roads. He couldn't find the unit on a sunny day. The boss had to drive down to a main road, get where the pilot could see the pickup, and tell him which way to go from there. It didn't help that the service landing was a few miles away. Maybe it is that style of helicopter? The one here was about the same thing.

Most of them won't go up in the first place if there's any fog to be had. And yes, I think the whole show now is scripted. Loggers make pretty bad actors.
Maybe next year it'll all be actors slamming logs around and yelling. And floating around on boats. I'd ram the boat with my kayak and see if it made for a major crisis. :greenchainsaw:


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## SirElliott (Apr 15, 2009)

*VFR in known IFR conditions*

While I’m sure the editors cranked up the “danger” quotient of the situation, the bottom line is that the aircraft wasn’t prepared for a common problem. The pilot flew into IFR weather without the basic ability to navigate. Even if the pilot is IFR current, the aircraft wasn’t. Poor VOR coverage at lower altitudes in the mountains means you need GPS. Moving map GPS can be bought new for less than $400.00. As a pilot that rents aircraft, I always have my own unit with me.

I’ll bet the helio filming had IFR capability because the producers insurance would have required it. If the film crew was flying during that time, the fallback could have been the film aircraft could have used their nav and radar to guide him back to the LZ. I really doubt that they were filming during this episode. They wouldn’t be able to maintain separation in the fog. The editing process allows you to cut and paste video from other shoots from other times into the piece. They also have been known to “recreate” scenes during “Deadliest Catch”.

The bottom line is that you can see the chopper flying into fog or clouds, which means IFR. The pilot also states he saw the front coming and tried to grab another turn. Bad judgment especially with the number of hours he says he has.


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## Mike Van (Apr 15, 2009)

Makes me wonder - Did the filming chopper only have 5 minutes of fuel left too? Naa, they must have refueled just before the fog rolled in, make sure they didn't miss anything - :censored:


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## Kunes (Apr 17, 2009)

There's no GPS in Montana?..

doubtful


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## Metals406 (Apr 17, 2009)

Kunes said:


> There's no GPS in Montana?..
> 
> doubtful



Hahaha... Smoke was just joking around. We have many, many nukes here all over the place. I live under a huge Gub'Ment radar base... So yeah, we'z gotz da'z technologyz.


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## Kunes (Apr 17, 2009)

ZZZ:monkey:


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## aokpops (Apr 18, 2009)

*theme soung*

theme song. play the old song watch tower . way better


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## Jkebxjunke (Apr 18, 2009)

aokpops said:


> theme song. play the old song watch tower . way better



better yet.. ' the hoky poky'


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## Ske-bum (Apr 18, 2009)

SirElliott said:


> While I’m sure the editors cranked up the “danger” quotient of the situation, the bottom line is that the aircraft wasn’t prepared for a common problem. The pilot flew into IFR weather without the basic ability to navigate. Even if the pilot is IFR current, the aircraft wasn’t. Poor VOR coverage at lower altitudes in the mountains means you need GPS. Moving map GPS can be bought new for less than $400.00. As a pilot that rents aircraft, I always have my own unit with me.
> 
> I’ll bet the helio filming had IFR capability because the producers insurance would have required it. If the film crew was flying during that time, the fallback could have been the film aircraft could have used their nav and radar to guide him back to the LZ. I really doubt that they were filming during this episode. They wouldn’t be able to maintain separation in the fog.
> The bottom line is that you can see the chopper flying into fog or clouds, which means IFR. The pilot also states he saw the front coming and tried to grab another turn. Bad judgment especially with the number of hours he says he has.



Well as a professional pilot, I found the whole thing disturbing. It goes against everything I have ever been taught or know about operating aircraft of any sort. Basically if you have a doubt about any of the following; *weather*, maintance, crew members, airport (LZ) conditions, don't go, until you get it sorted out. While I don't fly helicopters for a living, the basic principles of safety are the same throught out the industry. Aircraft of any sort are unforgiving of dumb moves.

My main thought during this episode, is man I hope the FAA isn't watching!! Because if so they are going to crawl up his ass with microscope. The FAA tends to shoot first and ask questions later. Now if the FAA comes knocking and they can prove it was staged or he was in VFR conditions the entire time, well he is good. But on film it is dumping snow, big ass flakes.

Now a $400 GPS unit from Wal-Mart isn't going to do jack for you in this situation, because you have no vertical reference. You still have to see the ground to be legal. The radar on the film helicopter isn't like a F16 intercept radar, it can't guide him anywhere. And if you can't see the ground because it is snowing hard.... AGGG... God, they are dumb.

What about the helicopter pilot wanna-be who gets air sick. 

Anyway I have to stop writing about it, the dumbness of it all makes my head hurt. Between this operation and the aqua logging MORONs, this show makes Dancing with the Stars look good.


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## SirElliott (Apr 18, 2009)

I'm also a pilot, you can get an cheap aviation GPS for $400. that has altitude from Sporty's. Any unit might not be accurate if there is not augmentation stations nearby. He would also have his altimeter. Given 5 minutes of fuel without many options GPS would be his best bet. 

I'll bet the FAA has already started talking with him.


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## Meadow Beaver (Apr 18, 2009)

MORE DRAMA :deadhorse:, they wouldn't have broadcasted it if Burt died, always has to be an extra thrill. They can't just cut em' and log em'.


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## Ironbark (Apr 18, 2009)

On the accident report you could put "CFIT". Controlled Flight into Tree instead of Controlled Flight into Terrain.


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## Ske-bum (Apr 19, 2009)

SirElliott said:


> I'm also a pilot, you can get an cheap aviation GPS for $400. that has altitude from Sporty's. Any unit might not be accurate if there is not augmentation stations nearby. He would also have his altimeter. Given 5 minutes of fuel without many options GPS would be his best bet.
> 
> I'll bet the FAA has already started talking with him.



Yeah it could have helped him, maybe. However it doesn't show the trees he was going to hit before he hit the ground. 
Anyway, if and mean I mean if, this whole thing was real it was one of the dumbest stunts I have ever seen. 

There is a old saying that applies to this; "You can't fix stupid" 

That is one conversation I won't want to have with the FAA. 

FAA: You have min fuel and a storm bearing down on you but you went out for another run, why?

Pilot: Well....um...I....um....Well the producers wanted some drama for the....um....show.

FAA:Well the producers don't issue your license do they now.

Pilot: Um....well....I....guess....not.


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## AKDoug (Apr 20, 2009)

Watch the episode really closely next time. Right when he gets out of the helicopter he pokes a button on what looks exactly like a GPS Nav screen.


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## SirElliott (Apr 21, 2009)

*Scary pilot*

So now we got a 100 hour pilot that they supposedly spent $70,000 in training. Sure seems that they should take their $70,000.00 they spent in training and just hire a vet. All of our medivac pilots were trained by the U.S Army with well over 1000 hours. They were very cool under some hairy situations. 

Hire a vet and save the trees.


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## Gologit (Apr 21, 2009)

SirElliott said:


> So now we got a 100 hour pilot that they supposedly spent $70,000 in training. Sure seems that they should take their $70,000.00 they spent in training and just hire a vet. All of our medivac pilots were trained by the U.S Army with well over 1000 hours. They were very cool under some hairy situations.
> 
> Hire a vet and save the trees.



How the hell do they get insurance on a 100 hour pilot? The ag outfit I work for wants 1000 hours TT of which 500 must be in tailwheel aircraft and 100 hours of ag time before they'll even talk to a prospective pilot.


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## mga (Apr 21, 2009)

AKDoug said:


> Watch the episode really closely next time. Right when he gets out of the helicopter he pokes a button on what looks exactly like a GPS Nav screen.



yep. it's a reality show....they need to add drama.


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## JCBearss (Apr 21, 2009)

That new piolet is an a$$ clown....that guy is deadly and going to kill some one as well as reduce production...even my gf half watching the show called it....he is the aqua logger with less swearing but just as innept


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## SirElliott (Apr 22, 2009)

*New pilot is missing...*

The low hour pilot is not listed on R&R Aviation's web site. Gee I wonder why not? http://www.rrconner.com/index.php?id=22 

R&R Aviation runs a flight school so I question the statement that THEY spent $70,000 to train the guy.


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## Kunes (Apr 23, 2009)

he's not on there as aa truck driver either.. it looked like he had his own log hauling company.


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## wood4heat (Apr 23, 2009)

SirElliott said:


> The low hour pilot is not listed on R&R Aviation's web site. Gee I wonder why not? http://www.rrconner.com/index.php?id=22
> 
> R&R Aviation runs a flight school so I question the statement that THEY spent $70,000 to train the guy.



My guess is it cost $70,000.00 to fix the helicopter after he crashed it. 

Anyone notice when he was swinging those logs around on the landing there was no one around? The shots of all the guys running for cover were separate takes and didn't even look like the same location. This show has no credibility.


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## SirElliott (Apr 23, 2009)

> Anyone notice when he was swinging those logs around on the landing there was no one around? The shots of all the guys running for cover were separate takes and didn't even look like the same location. This show has no credibility.



They do play fast and lose with the editing on these shows. I wonder if the publicity that the companys get are worth the risks they run. Certainly the Aqua loggers got hammered because of the show. J&J stated in a press article that they were counting on the publicity from the show to increase business. 

From their website:


> R&R has skilled and knowledgable professionals on it's team that after assessing the project will be able to cut, fly, load and haul timber from the property



I don't think the show helped demonstrate that. Maybe they make it up in hat sales. In one of the news stories R&R stated they only got a small fee to participate in the show.


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## Ske-bum (Apr 24, 2009)

SirElliott said:


> In one of the news stories R&R stated they only got a small fee to participate in the show.



They need to make it a large fee to pay the fines the FAA could levy against them for operating a heli like morons. 

I'm pretty much over the show, too little actual tree falling and too much drama, from either the S&S geniues or the "lost" heli pilots.


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