# dead pine tree climbing



## campbelltreeser (Apr 21, 2007)

i would like to get some thoughts on climbing dead pine trees....ive been in the business a long time, but climbing dead pines has always gotten the best of me. i would like to know how some other companies determine whats to dead to climb. thanks.


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## ASD (Apr 21, 2007)

campbelltreeser said:


> i would like to get some thoughts on climbing dead pine trees....ive been in the business a long time, but climbing dead pines has always gotten the best of me. i would like to know how some other companies determine whats to dead to climb. thanks.



as you (the climber) walk up to the tree if u have to ask your self that ? "is it to fare gone" = face cut back cut or a lift and or Crane ! always take the safe route as u only live once


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## kkottemann (Apr 21, 2007)

I will climb a dead pine to put a pull line in it or cut the top out if the bark is not peeling off. I never butt hitch or rig a pine which has been dead for a significiant amount of time. If the bark is comming off an it is really dry, use a crane.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 22, 2007)

I will 
climb if tied into an adjacent tree that will not cause too heavy of a swing.

put a pull rope in the pine and test pull it looking where it bends, if it crobars in the soil

sound it with a mallet as I go up. I've test drilled twice in when I was unsure and had a tight dropzone.

mostly cut and chuck small pieces. Never let large mass push off. That is what got Dr. Donzelli in a live lightning struck pine.

I'm done with the macho climb anything biz. I'll never get rich, but I can pick and choose the dirty jobs.

I do have a couple clients (primary contractors) that I will do harier stuff for. Used to be I'd say that they have wife and kids, not it's jsut that they have kids.

Now that i have a wife, I walk away from more stuff then before.


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## Dadatwins (Apr 22, 2007)

kkottemann said:


> I will climb a dead pine to put a pull line in it



Get yourself a Big Shot and you will never leave the ground again to put a pull line in a questionable tree. 

From Sherrills website, a sponsor of this site
http://gear.sherrilltree.com/iwwidb.pvx?;multi_item_submit


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## clearance (Apr 22, 2007)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> [*]mostly cut and chuck small pieces. Never let large mass push off. That is what got Dr. Donzelli in a live lightning struck pine.
> [/LIST]



Did he not try and hang a log? A big log at that? And then some here tried to blame the groundsman for not letting it "run"? I remember these kind of arguements here, about rigging off big pieces. I climb dead pine all the time, it is never too dead, like punky, but brittle. When I can just fall them I do, they always bust up when they hit the ground, unlike live trees. So don't be rigging nothing from the tree you are in, forget it, if people whine, tell them its thier fault for not having it cut down sooner. Its your life, be smart.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 22, 2007)

I think it was the top he was rigging out. He was a meticulous not keeper and had the defect and his concerns written down. It is said that he actually when higher to reduce the weight 

Many who knew him questioned weather it was a lack of experiance that did it. He worked with a number of the top people in the industry, but did not have all that much time under his belt. We can argue book learning vs. hard knocks till the cows come home.

Since I never saw any pictures of the defect, I cannot say what I would have done. I know what I have done in similar situations. Cut and chuck small pieces, or rig very small.


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## Magnum783 (Apr 22, 2007)

I climbed one pine tree that I thought was questionable and well it had a defect underneth where I was working when the top went over it broke the tree right below my feet and down I went. I know I am young to industry learning, bone head move, what a newbie I have heard them all. That is what I did and since then I have found AS and learned a ton and am a much better tree worker as a result of it. None the less I go wednessday for my second surgery to reapair my elbow. Better safe than sorry. I agree with the man about the big shot don't climb unless you have too. When I have a really rotten looking one I do just what you guys have said rig really small, or cut the thing form the bottom. All this mumble is just my experiance and my small two cents.
Jared


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## Sunrise Guy (Apr 22, 2007)

Magnum783 said:


> (snip) None the less I go wednessday for my second surgery to reapair my elbow. Jared



Good luck, brother! Hope you heal up soon. 

I don't go up pines with peeling bark, period. In dead pines, if cones are still hanging on and the branches will bend a bit without snapping, and the bark still holds tight, I'll spike up 'em, but NO WAY am I rigging down pieces of any size. It's cut and chuck small stuff. As another poster said, if the drop zone doesn't allow for dropping chunks, and the pine is DEAD, then it's the client's fault for not calling me sooner, and it's another company's headache 'cuz I ain't takin' the gig.

Be safe!


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## pmuscato (Apr 23, 2007)

My experience I have seen differences in types of Pine trees, Sand pines being the most dangerous, Longleaf safer. But then some will have a solid pitch lube from ground to top and be punky 4" thick on the outside. You have to look them over very carefully. For the most part I used the bark on vs. bark slofting rule. No bark no climb, unless like JPS stated there's another safe tree to TIP.


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## JTinaTree (Apr 23, 2007)

I am home sick today so I will post on this one.. I have climbed two dead loblolly pines this month. On one of them, I climbed a skinny one next to it and tied in. The bark had started peeling and the back side was soft, where it got no sun on that side. My gaff really sank right in.. The second had not peeled until I reached over and pulled, and it came right off. That pine still had pine cones on it. I had no alternate tree for my tie in, so tested it with my axe.
It was still hard so up I went, no problems. Both of these trees I topped and blocked down. They both had me nervous at first till I got up them a ways.. I agree with everyone I would not attempt to rig any part of them. Unless there was a good hardwood next to it for a rigging point. I don't know anyone who would climb a dead tree and not be a little nervous...


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## Fireaxman (Apr 24, 2007)

Sunrise Guy said:


> ... I don't go up pines with peeling bark, period. ...
> Be safe!



That is undoubtedly the best, safest advice, but there aint no money in it if yer hungry, and there aint no satisfaction in it if you just want to help somebody. I've been up a few with pretty lose bark that were still solid and hard as a rock from the surface to the core. Of course, "Hard" also means "Brittle", so I'm fully on board for not tieing anything off to the spar to get pieces down. But after I test the base and any exposed roots with a sharp knife or ice pick, and continue to check each time I move my lanyard up, I'm inclined to go up a ways to get a line where I need it (if I cant do it with a Big Shot) or get a limb or top where I want it. But I'm nervous about it, and nervous means cautious, and cautious has kept me out of trouble So Far.


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## joesawer (Apr 24, 2007)

My niche seems to have condemned me to cutting (climbing and felling) dead pine trees for a large portion of my life. 
A few things I have learned.
Trees decompose rapidly in the south east US. The micro organisms that degrade cellulose are most active at 60 to 90*F at more than 30% moisture. 
They loose flexibility first but still have pretty good compression strength for a lot longer than most people think. The brittleness of dead trees make defects much weaker as they concentrate the flex at the defect. 
Vertical cracks (parallel to the grain) are normal as the tree dries. Horizontal cracks (across the grain) are fractures.
Vertical cracks can be he!! when you hit them with a gaff.
The top can be very dry and light and the butt is usually very wet and heavy.
Termites attack the tree first at ground level, where strength is needed most.
If the stump is sound and the tree is hard and has no big ugly defects, I will usually still climb it. Even with the bark slipping or completely gone and with vertical cracks. I am very careful to be very smooth and to bend or shock the tree as little as possible. 
Often the top died before the rest of the tree and will be in worse shape, but will not be observed until you climb up to it. I am never afraid to retreat. 
I charge more for dead trees. They are inherently more dangerous. Most people won't or can't do them. The owner should have had them cut before they started decomposing.
Here is some pics of a tree I cut yesterday. Some one started it while it was still green but the home owner made them stop because they where doing property damage.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 24, 2007)

I have safely climbed a good many dead pines.
I have climbed some I probably should not have but
no tree has ever failed me yet! If I get spooked I will
stop and look more carefully and try to figure out a
different plan. I am nervous on dead trees and bid 
for it, and for options should I determine not safe 
as get to canopy. In my early days I remember
climbing this one pine that I had no business
being in just so boss and other men would not
call me chicken! This pine was not the biggest
tree I have been in, but was probably the most
dangerous! Bark had slipped and half way up it
there was a wood pecker hole clear through it
which left little structure and had to climb 30 ft
above it. I still call it the miracle tree today as I
know I would get a crane to do it now as it was 
completely boxed in by powerline primaries and
a building on the otherside!!!!!


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## ropensaddle (Apr 24, 2007)

By the way the other men and boss said there was no way
they would have climbed the tree when I got down! I remember
having mixed feelings anger, and pride but looking back stupid
thing to have done like rushion roulette! My boss should have
called for a crane and been much safer!!!


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## chewbacca (May 30, 2009)

I wimped out on a dead ponderosa pine today. I've climbed dead pines before. Some without bark but with hard sound wood (makes it hard to dig your spurs in). Others with bark, I'd climb up and when the wood got punky I'd drop the top at that point. This particular tree, I was only up about 15 feet and my spurs started sinking right in - very soft. There were DEEP woodpecker holes, fungal fruiting bodies starting at the base, and the sound of the wood when I banged on it inspired absolutely no confidence. There was still about 50 ft. of tree above me and with 2 houses, a fence, a deck, and a flagstone patio all around there was definately no room to drop it (thats if there was even sound hinge wood available). I made the call and decided we'll drive the bucket truck across the neighbor's lawn for that one. I feel kinda bad for not getting it done today. The tree surprised me. I knew at some point it'd get punky and I'd have to drop it, but I thought I'd get higher than that. There were a couple big limbs above me that still had needles on them that were kinda green. Whatever, safety first right?.......... right?...........guys?........Bueller?


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## treeoperations (May 30, 2009)

*well ill be buggerd*

i cant believe it friday i did a dead pine at a school, not huge but with a small drop zone, it had no bark but was still fairly sound, i couldnt just drop it as its on a boundary had other trees beside it and and shed, and also had a sports turf within 5 meters of it, we had a small drop zone beside the shed before the painted line of the rugby feild began, i wasnt allowed to put digger on the turf and pull it so hard to climb it.

up i went careful not to shake it to much, got up to damn near the top tied a pull line in and came down couple meters and scarf and a back cut and had goundie pull the top off.

chogged off another 4 meters before tieing a pull line in the top and dropping it with a meter or so clearance of the feild.

bloody brilliant, its down and im still kicking haha. when i felled the rest of it scared me a bit with the amount of rot in the centre of the tree. its boosted my confidence in picking a dead but safe tree to climb and a dead but not safe tree to climb.

i dont mind taking on the trees others wont i just think out side the box to get them done and its a awesome feeling when you do a job the the fire brigade wont touch haha


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## tree md (May 30, 2009)

My niche was dead Pines when I was younger and lived in a part of the country where they were prevalent. I climbed some harry ones back in the day. A couple where the bark had sloughed off with wood pecker holes and had my gaffs buried to the hilt. I climbed 2 like that where only the spar remained to around 30'. Had to get a rope in them to pull them away from a structure. Never again will I climb anything that unstable. I was about 60 pounds lighter at the time and young and dumb. I also climbed one onetime where my teacher was at the bottom of the tree yelling at me to go easy and not be rough with the tree. On the way down he told me to go slow and stay close to the spar. I was only setting a line in that one. When I got down the guy I worked for notched the tree and was about to make a back cut when I pulled it and it come over as the root system gave way. That will certainly make you think about what you are doing. Not many Pines where I live now but I still specialize in dead trees; I do mostly hardwoods now.


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## Rftreeman (May 30, 2009)

I've climbed a few in my days, just don't shock load it or get the weight off center (rocking side to side)


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## bulldoglover (May 30, 2009)

Great thread guys, I'm in the process of bidding a dead white pine with sluffing bark that is 20 feet from a cabin and half over the water. I was thinking about climbing but you guys backed up my gut feeling that it might not be the best option. Of course there is limited access, only an 8 foot alley that is S curved so no truck access. The HO wants me to blow the top out and land it on the edge of the water at the base of a 60 degree hill with a 20 foot hike up to the top with all the brush. I'm not feel'n that plan. Would have been a simple take down a year ago but now the $$ are adding up. Gotta love the flat landers.


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## Fireaxman (May 30, 2009)

Fireaxman said:


> [Not going up anything with peeling bark, to paraphrase Sunrise Guy] ... is undoubtedly the best, safest advice, but there aint no money in it if yer hungry, and there aint no satisfaction in it if you just want to help somebody. I've been up a few with pretty lose bark that were still solid and hard as a rock from the surface to the core. ....



I posted this back in April 2007. June of that year a friend asked me to remove a dead pine for him "...before the hurricanes get here". I checked one out that had moderately peeling bark, decided it was sound, climbed it, and pieced it down to about 20 feet. It was "... still solid and hard as rock from the surface to the core ..." at that point.

But, when I cut the spar a couple of feet from the ground, I found it to be riddled with termites. I thought I had a picture of it but I cant find it tonight. Makes sense when you think about it. Subteranean termites start at the ground and work their way up. Top can still be plenty hard, and the bottom ready to go at any moment. 

I got away with it that time, but by Grace, not skill. Since then I have adhered a lot more closely to Sunrise Guy's philosophy. Consider this a recant of my earlier post.


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## ozzy42 (May 30, 2009)

I won't climb them if the branches are starting to break off on their own.
If all the branches are prety much still in the canopy,and the tree is straight,I'll climb but no shock loading,bombs away,or small limbs,a lil at a time.

Now dead leaners are a whole different story.Hell,I don't like the live ones unless I have a nearby tree to tie in to.


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## Dadatwins (May 30, 2009)

Did one today, still had pine cones from last year, no needles, still had tight bark, trunk wood was still wet. Base at mulch line was 2/3 rotted thru. Tree was only 50' and spiked 1/2 way up to pop the top out. Hard to just look at one part of tree when making decision, have to take overall condition and fully evaluate each tree. making general decisions about anything in this business will get you hurt or worse. Be careful.


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