# cutter injury



## chainsawworld

attached are pictures of an accident i looked into involving a newer cutter.
the first picture shows that a small knotch was taken out of a larger ash tree with a great deal of lean. the back cut was started and the knotch filled causing the tree to slab out.
the second picture shows the height of the run. i shot a tangent and came up with approximately 32 of run. this would put the butt of the tree roughly 60 feet in the air. the feller stood next to the fell and watched instead of taking a safe distance. the tree broke off the run and came down on top of the feller.
the third picture shows the tree next to the stump. it is difficult to see the degree of impact in the photo. during the rescue the fire department remove the top from an other tree that was at the base of this tree. working in the top of the other tree would have made retreat even more difficult.


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## chainsawworld

2


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## StIhL MaGnUm

Marty,

I have two questions

1.Why did'nt the faller bore/plunge cut this tree,and use a larger face cut?

2.Is the faller ok?

That is the nastiest barber chair I have ever seen.


Later Rob..


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## chainsawworld

3


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## chainsawworld

rob, 
real good questions. first the feller was new and un-trained. open-face bore-cut was the way to take this one down. 
clear your escape path at a 45 degree angle away from the lean for at least 40 feet. as you begin your retreat set the brake, turn off the ignition and lift one ear muff.
this incident took place in feb. 2002. the cutter is still doing rehab. from it.


THIS IS A BREIF NARRITIVE AND NOT INSTRUCTION!
chainsaw operators should recieve hands on training from an instructor.

p.s. rob, is there any way you can put your reply behind my 3rd photo? thanks; marty


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## John Paul Sanborn

Because they post in a time sequance, there is no way to reorder the thread. 

I don't think it hurts the thread any.


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## StIhL MaGnUm

Sorry if I messed up your thread Marty I did'nt mean too.

Yes you are correct definetly a open face-bore cut to take down a leaner like that..

Later Rob.


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## chainsawworld

rob,
you didnt mess it up. its fine. i hope something can be learned from this thread. marty


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## koyaanisqatsi

I'm somewhat new at tree felling. In fact, I've never felled one and won't fell any but the smallest until I get some training and have a very good idea what I'm doing.

Can somone explain in layman's terms what happened to this poor guy and how it happened ?. What caused the first notch to fill? Or was it the second cut that filled? What does "slab out" mean? You may save me from a similar or worse fate. 

To me, it looks like a much wider angle for the directional cut should have been used. Then the felling cut should have been OK, barring splitting or splintering of the tree--a good possiblility since it was it was probably under some tension due to the extreme lean. In any event run, I'd have run my pre-planned route the instant anything looked wrong--I might stop the chain saw, but I'd leave it. This guy may not have had a chance to escape. 

Thanks,
Pete/koyaanisqatsi


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## Newfie

Man, that is a sorry-a$$ notch. Why even bother if you're gonna make it that small and sloping upward. Ash loves to slab out on that vertical grain if you do something stupid.

Thanks for the thread Marty. It is too bad that so many people have so little respect for the awesome power of saws and trees. Thoughts and prayers for the injured party. This sounds like the incident that had you quite upset last year.

Pete, ALWAYS use your escape route for every tree. I can't think of any reason to stand at the stump once the tree has been committed to falling. Others please correct me if I might have missed a reason to stay and watch.


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## John Paul Sanborn

I think I would have used a much deaper knotch to fell that tree. I've never strapped or chained a fell, but I can see the need now. Even on a small tree like that.

Pete, the face cut never came into play in this. The wood failed axis of the grain and massively barberchaired. Any wood that splits easily can fail like this when improperly felled. even if the hinge worked ti would have probably failed early and jumped back.


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## Greg

I've never watched a barber chair happen, I've seen the stumps but that is it, and this one is HUGE!. How quickly does all of this go down? Is it a slow cracking and splitting, or does this happen in the blink of an eye??


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## murphy4trees

I'd bet money that this notch was a dutchman on the backside of photo, that is crossing cut(s) on the notch. In the case of crossing cuts, as the tree begins to move, the kerf of the crossover cut closes. When the kerf closes the tree stops moving, effectively preventing the notch from closing. And the force of all that weight pulling the tree foward causes the trunk to split along the grain.. this is called a barber's chair. The rip goes up the trunk to a point where the trunk snaps in two. This becomes a new "hinge point". The tree above the new hinge point falls foward on its way down, while the attached trunk section (below the new hinge) lifts up, opposite to the direction of fall. This lower section lifting to the rear can injure the saw operator as it lifts up or as it falls to the ground from the height of the new "hinge point". 
I've seen it happen and it happens fast. All that pressure "pops" the wood along it's grain, like a splitting baseball bat. 
God Bless All,
Daniel


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## koyaanisqatsi

*I think I understand better what happened*

I have nothing but sympathy for the cutter and his family. Dangerous business even for the experienced. A simple error in judgement, short distraction, or the unpredictables is all it takes. Yet I'm determined if I can find a company to give me work *on the ground doing support work* first. Mostly smaller urban work for now.

I've thought of using a chain wrapped from near the cut point to a couple or several feet up the tree with a come along or binding lever to tighten the chain. Would that have prevented the accident? It *feels* like it would have, but perhaps not. Many uncertainties.

Thanks,
Pete


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## murphy4trees

Pete,
Wrapping a chain to prevent the trunk from splitting is a good added precaution in heavy front leaners, however it is not the answer for you.
The way to prevent barberchairs, in nearly all situations you will face, is to learn how to make a proper open face notch. I do this by making the top cut first at 70* or so and then looking through the kerf of the top cut as the bar is making the bottom cut, so as to avoid crossing the cuts. Also having a sharp chain that cuts straight is highly recommended... If your saw is cutting crooked, take the time to sharpen it before felling.
There are some good videos on open face notchs and back release felling techniques, produced for loggers, available from International Paper.
As far as the above injured party, my guess is that lack of proper training was more at cause than any error in judgment or distraction. 
Any time you are felling in the woods, you need to move away from the tree at 45* ASAP. The above videos cover that well too.
It is possible his saw pinched and he was fighting to free it when the tree went... in that case, leave the saw and run for your life!!!!
God bless,
Daniel


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## lync

*My two cents*

I would have to agree with JPS the notch made no difference in this scenario, the hingepoint is way up the trunk!

The hinge does look deep enough 80% of the diameter.
The back cut is a little high. The only thing that would have prevented this (imho) would have been to plung cut and leave an inch thick hinge, then back release it. I would also bet the feller was not cutting at full throttle. If he was cutting fast he might have gotten the hinge to activate before it completely split out. 
The hinge would have closed quickly and not guided the tree completely to the ground.


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## murphy4trees

I have to respectfully disagree with JPS and Lynch on this call.
After reading lynch's post I went back and looked closely at the first photo, the hinge. If you look closely, check out the trunk on the face side, above and below the hinge... the tree clearly moved...
and then look closely at the apex of the notch.... it's clear to me that the bottom cut on the face bypassed the top (angled) cut. That is why this tree split. The tree moved until that kerf of the bypassing floor cut closed, and then there was nothing for all that force to do but split the trunk.
I've done it and seen it done, enough to recognize it. I guess I shouldn't be too proud of that. And because I now understand the physics of the hinge, I make 100% certain there is no bypass in the notch. To me, that is the lesson we can all learn here. To imply that this can be avoided in the future by chaining the trunk is misleading at best.
God Bless,
Daniel


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## chainsawworld

murhpy,
it is hard to see in the photo but fibers inside the knotch were broke and crushed.
the best way to have taken this down was at ground level, open-face bore-cut, flat and level with no by-pass any place, cutting opposite from the lean. 
THIS IS JUST A BREIF NARRITIVE AND NOT INSTRUCTION!
marty


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## koyaanisqatsi

I guess what's most troubling to me, aside from the cutter's injury, is that felling this tree *looks* like a "piece of cake".

A decent directional notch, a decent felling cut and the tree should simply fall completely in the intended direction. 

And it just didn't. The unpredictables again I guess. Have at least one clear escape path and use the best one when *anything* is seen or heard falling seems to be the rule. I assume that if you have only one escape path, that just could be the wrong way to go.

A similar incident happened to me years ago when pouring cement for a 60 feet concrete silo. Broken winch, so the bucket was being pulled via a cable wrapped around the front bumper of a pickup. The guy backed up with a full bucket (maybe 30 gallons). I operated the concrete chute and had to stay under to steady the bucket until it was out of reach. I heard the whoosh but did not see the bucket fall from near the top. I was in the next county when the concrete bucket hit the ground and split. We got a different bucket and resumed. Never forgot that close call.

Pete


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## Newfie

His face cut/notch is clearly not up to snuff, not only does it cross at the intersection, but the bottom cut is not level (or sloping down)and slopes up into the intersection of the two cuts, effectively making it even smaller. I think also the back cut that eventually failed was attempt number two at a back cut if you look carefully at pic 1 and 3. 

lack of training and no respect for the danger are clearly the culprits here.


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## lync

*notch*

Murphy I think i see your point, are you saying that the tree started to fall, closed the kerf on the bottom face cut, which may have gone deeper than the top face cut, then the tree stopped pivoting at the hinge and stopped falling, the notch could not close and the force and torque of the tree abruptly stopping caused it to split out? 

Corey


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## John Paul Sanborn

I was not trying to asses how the barberchair happened, I don't do enough felling to be guessing at that from a few pictures. All I was doing is saying how I would have done the face, wide and deep. 

If I were felling it into the leacn I dont think I would use a boarcut. Seems to me that might lead to an explosive release.

IMHO (seriously this time) a heavy ratchet strap would be a good peice of eqiupment for this type of operation. Cheap insurance.

Marty, would you be able to write up a short article to submit to the trad mags without identifying acompany, person or region?


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## chainsawworld

do to the heavy lean and size of the tree, a deeper knotch, be it conventional, v or humbolt, the saw would have become pinched right in the very beginning of the task. the weight of the tree would have closed the kerf the saw made on the bar and chain. struggling to free the saw would have put the cutter in more harms way should the tree slab. what would happen if a second cutter and saw were introduced to free the first? for some reason most new cutters put the safety of the saw ahead of themselves.
this tree should have been cut at ground level for safety. at ground level the bells could been removed for less risk and better controll. a plug could have been left on the back cut for a safer release.

THIS IS BRIEF NARRATIVE AND NOT INSTRUCTION!!

john, i am not sure what you would like. send me an e-mail, marty


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## viking

While a tree leaning the direction you wish it to fall seems ideal, It should be a time for extra precaution if it is leaning heavley. Refered to as a "heavy head leaner" in my area. No matter how good or bad your face cut is unless your saw can cut the back cut very fast the tree will "Barber Chair" "Slab Out". Common practice is to make "standard" face cut. Then bore in behind face leaving your holding wood (hinge) and cut back towards the back cut side. Stop back cutting leaving an amount of holding wood in the back cut area. Start standard back cut and cut quickly.
Yes it is a fast fall when it starts, some times you get some grain pull, but the chance of barber chair is greatly reduced. Any falling must be done with care and thought. Clean escape routes,brushed out work area, good equipment, well rested, alert training, experience ect... 

Work safe
This info is not formal training or tutorial


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## murphy4trees

Lots of good input here.... this thread can save lives.... so thanks to AS for openning this new forum. 
Responding in no particular order

"do to the heavy lean and size of the tree, a deeper knotch, be it conventional, v or humbolt, the saw would have become pinched right in the very beginning of the task"
I agree here... I think a deep notch is not required on heavy front leaners... though that is more an intuitive call than a result of any training. Again what is most important is that there be no bypass in the notch cuts.

"the best way to have taken this down was at ground level, open-face bore-cut, flat and level with no by-pass any place"
I Absolutely agree with this. I think any well trained logger will tell you that an open face notch with a bore cut and back release is the safest way to fell this tree. The back release technique adds between 2-5 seconds to your escape time.. in the woods that can save save your life... I have never done any logging as I do mostly residential work... Felling in the woods is a world away from what we residential arbos do. There are so many unseen potential hazards... that 2 seconds means a lot!!!

"IMHO (seriously this time) a heavy ratchet strap would be a good peice of eqiupment for this type of operation. Cheap insurance"
No doubt this is true and it's always nice to have good gear and take a few extra minutes to set up a job right.. if only so you can FEEL safer when working. And setting up a good hinge here and adding the strap is like driving 55 and wearing your seatbelt.... Bypassing the cuts on the notch and using a strap is like driving 110 and wearing your seatbelt. I personally would prefer to drive 55 w/o a seatbelt than 110 with one.

"Murphy I think i see your point, are you saying that the tree started to fall, closed the kerf on the bottom face cut, which may have gone deeper than the top face cut, then the tree stopped pivoting at the hinge and stopped falling, the notch could not close and the force and torque of the tree abruptly stopping caused it to split out?"
That is exactly what happened... no doubt about it... And Corey that is a very good description. 

"Have at least one clear escape route"
When working in the woods 2 escape paths should be cleared, preferably at 45* from the felling plane. And you don't wait around to see what happens. Bore cut with a back release, cut the tab and get out of there quick. Had this been done chance of injury would have been very close to 0.
God Bless All,
Daniel


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## geofore

*lean*

Ash and silver maple both like to split out, ash more so with the strait grain. I would like to see pictures of the other side of the tree and cut. Did it hinge at the first big limb that changed the direction of the grain? Ash needs to be handled with care even after it is cut to boards, drop it and it splits, throw it on the stack and it can split. I don't doubt that by the time he heard it split, the split was a done deal all the way up. It does pinch the saw in place and hold it tight with the cut that was made. Two or three wraps of rope around the trunk three feet above the cut would have made a differance. Most of you disagree with that but I will do that on leaners and on limbs in silver maples that have a split from storm damage. On the split limbs it keeps the split from heading towards the trunk and sends it towards the tip away from your position as you make the under cut. I've had the splits on big limbs run out 20' to 30' before the limb falls off. The same idea comes into play when you are cutting out a tree with more than one leader and you take the time to cable the leads together just in case they want to split while you are up in one side working. I've had them split to the ground as one side was cut off and the cable held.


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## murphy4trees

Geo,
Thanks for the tips... your experience is showing here...
So do you use bore cuts with a back release much??? 
Thanks,
Daniel


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## koyaanisqatsi

Very helpful geofore. I still can't get over how easy it *looks* to bring a tree like that down, but everything seemed to go wrong.

It would be useful I think if there was a team whose job is was to investigate accidents like this nationwide, to determine the precise cause, but *not* to blame someone. That may not be possible, but it may save some lives and prevent injuries if there were such a team. Alternately, it would seem that a local team of very experienced cutters might try to break free to try to reconstruct on site exactly what happened, if possible. The findings might be presented in a forum such as this one. Crazy idea perhaps. 

Pete


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## geofore

*boring in*

The first few times I did the cuts, I thought it would mess up the tip of the bar. Years back they taught you not to do a boring cut and said you would burn out the tip of the bar, I found out the tips did not burn out if done properly. There is safety in the different cuts, you need to know when to use them, this guy did not. 

I'm glad to see someone else started the Jacknife thread, though I have folded down trees I would not show someone how it is done. There is a special cut to use when you want the tree to fold in different directions as it comes down upon itself.


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## John Paul Sanborn

I just figured that the proper face cut was already hashed out, not needing any repetition on my part.

I now see strapping a tree as simple insurance, just like using a pull rope on a residential removal. Howmany of you would forgo the 1/2 inch insurance policy in there were the slightest chance of structural damage?

I like the anology to speed though, a sloppy cut means you are going too fast. Go slow, and use all the simple safety precautions you can, along with proper basic technique. 

As for a nationwide board that reveiws accidents, that is what OSHA is for. With this accident, sisnce it was one worker seriously injured they would not be called to the seane. I belive it is 3 seriouse injuries or one death which will trigger an OSHA investigation. NAA will assist its members durring an OSHA investigation.

Tim could comment on that more.


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## Ryan Willock

Thats a nasty one for sure!!! I use the bore cut almost exclusively anyway (probably 85% of the time) i also would have plunged out the heart and placed sapwood cuts just above the hinge.

THIS IS NOT INTENDED AS INSTRUCTION!!!! SEEK PROFESSIONAL INSTRUCTION IF UNFAMILAR WITH FELLING!!!!


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## whiteoak

I just found out about this forum about an hour ago. been reading all about these problems that people have had 
well i've been cutting nearly 30 years and all this that i've read so far I can relate to and then some.so expect the unexpected when you fire up your saw. have a nice day


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## chainsawworld

whiteoak,
welcome aboard. hope you find all of us here helpful.
marty


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## Kevin

You can expect that to happen on any head leaner.
The face notch wasn`t a problem here, it was the lack of a bore cut that caused the tree to seperate.


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## koyaanisqatsi

Hi Kevin:

Would you suggest a bore cut with any type of tree leaning that much, or just certain types of trees leaning that much, or with just certain types of trees regardless of lean? To shorten the question, when is it better/safer to use a bore cut?

TIA,
koyaanisqatsi


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## StIhL MaGnUm

I bore cut any leaner with a slightly modified open face notch,as many will state the open face bore cut is the safest way to fell timber,but there are plenty of times where you don't need to use this method..


later Rob..


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## Kevin

I use a bore cut on any head leaner where the lean is towards the lay and it is large enough to take the gut of the bar.
It saves wood and prevents barber chairs.
A leaning tree is under tremendous pressure, you want to relieve the tension as much as possible.


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## murphy4trees

Kevin,
Why do you say it wasn't the notch (face cut)?
Are you saying that, based on the picture of the hinge, or based on your experience felling head leaners or for another reason?
The tree might not have barberchaired with a back released plunge cut, but it's clear to me from the pic that the face cuts overlapped causing the hinge to sieze, which resulted in the barberchair.
God Bless,
Daniel


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## Kevin

Daniel;
I don`t see a dutchman in the photo but if it is there they usually cause the hinge to fail prematurely.
They are sometimes used intentionally on one side or the other.
It appears to me the felling cut is a little too high and the hinge a little too beefy which enhanced the chance for the barber chair. 
A narrow face cut can cause the face to close and pull the wood and sometimes cause a barber chair.
Wind is another factor that doesn`t get mentioned often.
It doesn't look like the back cut got very far into the tree before it failed.
My guess is wind or weight from the lean or a combination of both caused the barber chair.


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## koyaanisqatsi

*Review Images*

All:

I just received Kevin's last Post and it caused me to go back and look at the Images again. It's not clearly evident in the first image, but in the 2nd and 3rd images I seem to see a horizontal (actually slightly tilted down/right) line just below his final felling cut. It could be nothing--I can't say for sure it is a cut, or how deep it might be. But, perhaps the cutter first started a felling cut below his final one, decided that is was way off bad due to being off horizontal or the tree was already beginning to show slight signs of slabbing. He then started a new felling cut a couple inches about the first felling cut, thinking that would make things right. Could this first felling cut closed causing the collapse? Any thoughts? Just speculation.

koyaanisqatsi


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## Kevin

The cut is way too high up the trunk but it would have gone better with this cut ...


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## whiteoak

i appreciate the feed back on this thread becouse i had this exact same thing happen to me a #of years ago and could never figure out what i done wrong. the only thing that was different was mine as you all call it barber chaired the second i started the back cut. how ever i had a big tree beside me to hide behind when it happened and the thought had crossed my mind that something like that could happened. have a nice day


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## Kevin

It's nice when you have some tree to work with also.
You make that bore cut leaving the bar in the bore, move towards the hinge then back the bar up cutting away from the hinge .
Leave sufficient holding wood at the back, pull the bar out and cut the holding wood from the back side of the tree.
They usually let go fast.
Always use the bottom of the bar to start your bore.
If and when you ever have a barber chair, don`t think twice about it.
Leave the saw and get out of there fast.


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## StIhL MaGnUm

Here's some good info on bore cutting and a few other methods.


http://www.forestapps.com/tips/backcut/backcut.htm

Later Rob.


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## Greg

I've cut this same tree down many times as I'm sure most of you have. I have never used a bore cut. I see the advantages to a bore, and I'm sure I'll start using it more going forward, but I see a slow/incomplete backcut as the problem here more than anything else. I bet 1/2 in into the back cut he heard snaping and saw the tree moving so he (being inexperienced) thought that the tree was on its way down so he stopped cutting.

Visualize your hinge prior to cutting, cut fast to create that hinge, and get the hell out of the way.

Greg


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## lumberinspector

*Chainsaw Training/Felling*

Hey Guys! 

After reading a few threads on here and noticing how many unexperienced fallers are out there I thought maybe some of you would be interested in the following:

Samsel LTD Sawmill and Sawshop along with Forever Green Forestry will be hosting a number of classes this spring into early summer. The instructor will be Ken Lallemont of Timber Resources, LLC. This guy is ???? good at what he does and very intelligent. This class is hands on learning and you will be running a chainsaw and falling some trees. Class size is limited to 10-12 people. 

Here are the class dates:
Feb 8 Level 1 $20.00
March 8 Level 2 $80.00
March 22 Level 1 $20.00
April 5 Level 3 $80.00
April 26 Level 2 $80.00
May 3 Level 3 $80.00
May 19 Logger Training (Call 1-800-551-2656 to register)
June 7 Level 4 $80.00

All classes are held at Samsel LTD located outside of Hancock, WI. Contact Paul Ahlen at [email protected] or call him at 715-249-5602 for more information etc. All classes start at 8 AM. Bring a lunch and PPE. If you don't have any PPE they will provide you with some. You do cut rain or shine so dress appropriately. 

I attended level one last spring and learned so much. Ken is a great instructor. As far as I know you will prob be falling some small diameter pine but I know Ken talked about getting into some hardwoods...just have to wait and see!! I will be attending the rest this spring so I hope to see some of you up in Hancock. 

Be safe out there


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## lumberinspector

*More Info*

I am sure many of you have heard of FISTA or the Forestry Industry Safety Training Alliance, INC but if not they offer many classes also regarding logging etc. Here is their web site:

www.newnorth.net/fista/


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## ROLLACOSTA

are you guys familier with technic of felling leaners called the 'dogs tooth cut' its standerd practice over here..its simple and idiot proof


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## MasterBlaster

Hahahahahaaa!!!


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## ROLLACOSTA

here a Technique we use overhere in the UK for all leaning trees its called a 'dog tooth cut' ..its simple to do and works everytime.i have included a diagram and yes the two back cuts do overlap usualy by the time the two cuts meet its over she goes anyway


1; face cut as usual 

2,bore cut leaving several inches of holding wood [amount depends on size and lean of timber]

3, angle cut meeting bore cut ,cut through fast and accurate

4, bingo never another barbers chair


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## Stumper

Rolly, What's the advantage of the angled cut for severing the strap?


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## glens

The only advantage is that more wood fiber gets cut.&nbsp; 

Glen


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## ROLLACOSTA

to be perfectly honest i have no idea ,this has come to my mind a few times but when i was at college this was how we where taught.i have used this cut lots of times and i havent thought about changeing it ..but now you have brought the question up i will look into it further ..unless someone else on here can tell me the advantage of an angled cut..by the way the chap who taught me the technique is known as one of the best hard wood loggers in the country


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## glens

Probably the (supposed) reason for the angle cut is to avoid having the saw get snatched when the holding wood goes.&nbsp; I don't see it, though.&nbsp; The final cut should be made below the bore cut (for safety) and it should be parallel to it (perpendicular to the stem axis) (for expediency/safety).

Glen


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## wiley_p

Very good discussion, now let me say something, not familiar with much ash, though the dia. of this tree it seems that murphy has a sound assesment, the faceon this tree is problematic at best, what size/sharpness of saw was being used, cause a good level face and a lower backcut may have had a different outcome, also sometimes instead of taking a head leaner with its favor a swing cut can also prvent a barberchair, using this alot on heavy alders with a great deal of sucess. that ground looked favorable, alot of places ijhn the West arent conducive to good esxcape routes and sometimes the fastest attack is the best. The fundamental mistake here was with the Bullbuck this guy should have been under supervision or at least been given some groundrules. I use the boring backcut often, bore the face alot and use the Coos Bay cut alot. But I wonder why a proper face/backcut with a good sharp saw couldnt have gotten this tree down better?


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## rmihalek

Maybe the angled cut in Rolly's post (the felling cut) is intended to help prevent the falling stem from kicking back over the stump? May be effective in a few cases, but probably not a majority of drops.


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