# The Economy of Wood Heat



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

It takes me up to a good six hours including sometimes a 15-40 mile round trip when I go out for the purpose of cutting and bringing home and stacking enough processed wood to heat my house and shop for one week. That can get into two chains, expense of driving, half gallon of mix, you know depreciation on the stuff, etc. Broken maul handles so-on. I like driving my truck so that's just a trip to the woods. The OWB is paid for twice in saved heat over 13 years. I get all my wood from tops I leave behind logging so access is free and it makes farmers happy.

What's the cost/benefit though if you value your time and expense monetarily vs. purchasing wood, oil, coal or gas whatever is in your area?


----------



## square1 (Nov 30, 2014)

If I did it for the money, I wouldn't do it. Can't put a $ figure on the physical & mental benefit gained from a day collecting firewood vs. a day in front of the TV or at my desk in front of the computer.

Three years ago I burned $800 worth of wood to save $300 in natural gas over the winter after factoring in my Home Owners Insurance premium for a wood burner. Now I just sell the wood


----------



## Ironworker (Nov 30, 2014)

I have access to free wood, my wife's uncle has 70 acres all hardwoods but it's about a half hour away, I much prefer to just get a log truck delivered and cut at my leisure.


----------



## jrider (Nov 30, 2014)

The wood I burn in my owb is pine/junk wood that I can't sell so for me it's about as free as it comes since I'm already processing firewood. The only time involved is hauling it the 9 miles home from my moms farm.


----------



## 7hpjim (Nov 30, 2014)

The solid fuel is all around me. from my yard and all over the neighbors property (75ac+ 2/3 wooded) so vs fuel oil it believe i am ahead but the savings can be mute if you spend it all on chainsaws, but I am fixing that


----------



## AIM (Nov 30, 2014)

If you think your time is worth something, burning wood probably doesnt pay off. I charge $35 per hour for myself while I am working so the 2-3 hours per load of wood that lasts me about 1 week would translate into about $350 a month in labor. Plus I hae come up with an approximation of about $9 per truckload in costs. (gas, saws, chains, etc) Add it all up and I am looking at about $386 a month to burn wood IF I COUNT MY TIME....
I can heat my house with propane for quite a bit less than that. I myself though do not count my time on a saturday or sunday. What else am I doing. Drinking beer? Might as well cut some wood. If I was taking time from work to cut then I'd just buy propane.


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

Some body has to do it. lol Solid fuel is a better heat. I came up with similar #'s as AIM based on saw/operator at least a $30/hour rate for that. I think the truckload per expense all told for equipment and fuel is closer to $20 per load. Get into depreciating the appliance and power splitter well.........


----------



## olyman (Nov 30, 2014)

square1 said:


> If I did it for the money, I wouldn't do it. Can't put a $ figure on the physical & mental benefit gained from a day collecting firewood vs. a day in front of the TV or at my desk in front of the computer.
> 
> Three years ago I burned $800 worth of wood to save $300 in natural gas over the winter after factoring in my Home Owners Insurance premium for a wood burner. Now I just sell the wood


 woooo, somethings wrong with that scenario.....


----------



## zogger (Nov 30, 2014)

Cutting firewood is farm work to me, plus sport. Keep pasture edges clean of deadwood. Get all or most onsite, so, it's not that expensive in terms of dollars to get it. I make a pittance, so there's no way any other fuel (propane) is cheaper with my labor. 

If I made like real middle class money, I would still do it, don't play golf, etc., it's really a sport to me. Plus, it's stored solar power, pretty green, and I can stockpile at my leisure, helps to remain independent, same as gardening, etc. Anything that helps me be independent is what is preferable to being tied to the man and system. To me, that is more real insurance than some piece of paper.

I saw what happened around here just last winter..no propane! You couldn't get it! It was unobtanium for any money for a few weeks. All the trucks got hustled up north to provide propane up there when people where running out due to the polar vortex blast. Thing is, people around here got the same blast and ran out. See, the companies don't give a crap, they go where they can squeeze the most dineros out, they'd let folks freeze around here, they don't care.

*Most* people even with propane and big budgets are not three years or better stockpiled in advance, whereas with wood, this is relatively easy to do.


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

zogger said:


> Cutting firewood is farm work to me, plus sport. Keep pasture edges clean of deadwood. Get all or most onsite, so, it's not that expensive in terms of dollars to get it. I make a pittance, so there's no way any other fuel (propane) is cheaper with my labor.
> 
> If I made like real middle class money, I would still do it, don't play golf, etc., it's really a sport to me. Plus, it's stored solar power, pretty green, and I can stockpile at my leisure, helps to remain independent, same as gardening, etc. Anything that helps me be independent is what is preferable to being tied to the man and system. To me, that is more real insurance than some piece of paper.
> 
> ...



Good points man. There's no doubt we'd all do it anyway. It's a way of life to me. 
Chicks dig it,too.


----------



## swed1162 (Nov 30, 2014)

Plus remember if you use oil to heat your house a lot of the profit goes to people that really don't like us. I love the thought of using wood exclusively to heat my house, its a renewable source and my buddy owns a logging company so my wood is relatively free for my wood.(Barder system, i'm a machinist and he has equipment that breaks) So really my only expense is my time and fuel. using same saw MS-390 for years and have same truck 01 Dodge Cummins for 13 years so everything is paid for except dump trailer I bought this year to make life easier.


----------



## swed1162 (Nov 30, 2014)

Sorry MS-290 saw not MS-390. sorry..


----------



## laynes69 (Nov 30, 2014)

I don't know what LP would cost, I've always burned wood since we bought our home. If I had to drive far away, or wood wasn't easily accessible, I would buy. Last year we fell into a deal of split hardwood at 100.00 per 1.25 cord delivered. At that price it was a no brainer. Now this year my neighbor had many acres logged. I can get to everything and its 2 minutes away on tractor, so I won't buy. I went out yesterday, cut a weeks plus worth of wood on one tank of gas in the saw. Came home split and stacked. If it's going to take alot of time to collect, I'll consider my time and look into buying.


----------



## JeffHK454 (Nov 30, 2014)

Search...the "why I burn wood" thread has shown up every six months for the ten+ years I've been here.

If you try to put it in black-n-white..or..dollars-n-cents burning wood doesn't always pay off, you do it because you like the hut, the work and the independence from utility companies. It's a hobby for me that was passed down from my dad and he got it from his dad. 

I'll never buy wood , when the time comes I can't scrounge I'll be done.


----------



## svk (Nov 30, 2014)

I've got enough wood on my property to accommodate several years of burning. Additionally I'm only harvesting dying/dead/trees threatening buildings that would need to be cut anyhow. 

My scrounge trips are always completed in conjunction with another task ie checking on the hunting cabin so I don't consider the 80 mile round trip from home as part of the cost. 

Adding in the cost of your time changes the equation to a break even at best. But as others said if you consider it a hobby or in my case need to cut the trees anyhow then it's a huge money saver. 

If I had to shell out cash to get logs delivered I'd probably skip it.


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

How long does it take you and what's your time running a saw and processing wood worth? I know it pays back, I've never had gas. Well.....


----------



## sunfish (Nov 30, 2014)

I'd make more money working in the shop and buying propane or electric for heat. But I don't 
want to work in the shop 7 days a week, would rather spend some time in the woods...


----------



## Chris-PA (Nov 30, 2014)

Once you add transportation to the equation the Energy Return On Energy Invested (EROEI) goes down dramatically. Since we still have access to cheap fossil fuel energy (for a while), this distortion can still work. As the cost of fossil fuel goes up, and access to it and ability to pay go down, it will stop making sense. 

Of course, if you believe we're going to be the biggest oil & gas producer then don't worry about it.


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

Subtract the cost of the gym. 



swed1162 said:


> Plus remember if you use oil to heat your house a lot of the profit goes to people that really don't like us.



I like this guy's thinking. That's worth a few hours tearing up old clothes and scaring birds.


----------



## greenskeeper (Nov 30, 2014)

previous job we did tree work in the winter, so the rounds were already cut and loaded into my truck to take home everyday. 

current job the tree/landscape guys we have on contract drop the rounds off at my house, sometimes even split stuff ready to stack.

The old saying goes, every time you touch it (wood) it costs you money.


----------



## Chris-PA (Nov 30, 2014)

Yet another Brush Ape alias.


----------



## 1project2many (Nov 30, 2014)

I use $75 / cord as the breakpoint. If it costs more than that I'll stop burning. That's actual cash outlay. I don't usually factor in time unless the firewood is taking away from a money making job. That rarely happens, though. Equipment costs are minimal and I work to take care of the equipment so the costs stay low. I've burned one tank of oil each year since 2006. In September it cost about $700 to refill the tank. I burn three and one half cord per year for the house. By my factoring that's $270. The security of knowing what my heating cost will be each year and the ability to budget for it is worth the work. I've got two years' worth of wood stockpiled so all I need to cover is the cost of oil for next year. 

Lately most of the wood I get is within 5 miles of home. I've travelled up to 40 miles round trip for a years' worth of wood. It was a good deal that should have netted 8-9 cord for $30 (plus fuel, of course) but the weather turned before I could get more than half of it. I once travelled 140 miles for two cord of wood. But that was really because I needed to ensure my father had enough c/s/s for a couple of years at his place. He wouldn't accept help without giving me some of the wood so that cost me a bit. Luckily the firewood quarantines allow me a good excuse to refuse to transport wood back these days.


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

That's another way to calculate the value of your time. Take the heat bill subtract the actual expense of stockpiling wood and the difference is what you, "made."


----------



## Locoweed (Nov 30, 2014)

We'll, this is a chainsaw forum. If you like to play with your saw, you might as well get some benefit from it. The exercise will probably do you good also.


----------



## slowp (Nov 30, 2014)

I'm sure it isn't cheaper here. We have publicly owned (socialist) hydropower. Most houses have electric heat. There are no natural gas lines for 50 miles and propane and oil are spendy compared to electricity. We are rural. We are a logging/lumber mill economy. Most folks have chainsaws, have somebody in their family who has made a living with one, and have firewood at least for when the power goes off during a storm. 

I've started doing a bit of thinning and timber stand conversion on my little place so will have a supply of alder. It isn't easy, I can't putt around on any equipment due to terrain and drainfield. I call it going to the gym.


----------



## muddstopper (Nov 30, 2014)

When I first put in a wood stove, my electric bill dropped by $200 month. Had a big snow storm that winter, power was off for a week. With the wood stove, we had heat, wife cooked on top of the stove, so we had food. Its easy to put a price on what it cost to burn wood, if you care to take the time to do so. How to figure the price of having heat and hot food on the table when the power is off,, Hard to put a price on that.


----------



## troylee (Nov 30, 2014)

If it wasn't for firewood/chainsaws, I wouldn't leave the house after work. We only have a fireplace, so my yearly wood supply would be filled with one days cutting. If I make any money at this wood business, so be it. If I don't, oh well, killing trees is my payment.


----------



## johnnylabguy (Nov 30, 2014)

The draw of great money savings brought me back to burning wood, but like many others here have said, I enjoy it for so much more now:
-independence
-exercise
-enjoying the outdoors
-playing with toys but justifiable to wife 
-legacy(grandpa and Dad burned wood. Good memories)

Heck I even bought a 13 acre woodlot to play on so ill probably never break even on wood heat. But I don't golf,watch football, or even hunt that much anymore. My wife never complains when I'm doing something productive and it's a great escape. I had more fun listening to the football game with my WorkTunes earmuffs on than sitting on the couch watching yesterday. Paying the oil bill is less fun than this:


----------



## stihlaficionado (Nov 30, 2014)

All the free wood I want via my arborist friend. Round trip to & back from woodlot is 56 miles. Any jobs that I help him with in town I get as much wood as I want. Typical winter gas bill in my neck of the woods is approx $300-$500 a month.
last winter the largest bill we had was $98.00 & that includes running the water heater on gas.
So the insert paid for itself in 2 years.


----------



## mga (Nov 30, 2014)

square1 said:


> If I did it for the money, I wouldn't do it. Can't put a $ figure on the physical & mental benefit gained from a day collecting firewood vs. a day in front of the TV or at my desk in front of the computer.
> 
> Three years ago I burned $800 worth of wood to save $300 in natural gas over the winter after factoring in my Home Owners Insurance premium for a wood burner. Now I just sell the wood




you said $800 worth of wood. is that what it cost you, or is that what the wood was worth if you were selling it?

i look at it this way: if i have to buy wood, i'll just turn the thermostat up and stay home. the cost of wood isn't worth paying for it, the hassles of burning and cleaning all the time.

but, you do bring up a good point. if i were to sell my wood, i'd make out even after paying the gas and electric company. 

now you got me thinking.......


----------



## laynes69 (Nov 30, 2014)

I know when dad lived here, at least 200 gallon of LP a month. Right now, the ripoff company we are contracted thru is charging 3.14 a gallon. So that's 628.00 + tax. We've tightened our home, but even in the worst of months, I'll burn up to a cord. I can get wood at 120.00 a cord here from the local amish, so that's quite a savings. They kept the house at 68 when they burned gas, we keep the house around 74-75 most of the winter. Like I mentioned before, I don't know exactly what LP would cost, just don't want to find out. So even if I bought wood, it's a win, but having some woods on the property, and good neighbors I'll continue cutting.


----------



## NHMike (Nov 30, 2014)

Nothing warms you like wood heat! That being said, when we built our house, we put in geothermal as I didn't want to be married to a OWB. 
I burn just for ambiance and have a fire just about every night. The fireplace is our backup heat source for when the power goes out. We lost power Wednesday afternoon and just got it back last night. House never dipped below 71.

Like others stated, I enjoy working outside and using all the tools. I am fortunate as we have 40 acres of woods. My cost is just fuel and wear & tear on tools and my time. It is a very rewarding feeling having all that wood split & stacked. I was able to help a friend out who lost their job and my sister who is having some life difficulties. I gave them 2 cords of prime wood each. I enjoyed processing the wood and knowing that I was able to help them keep warm for the winter exceeds the dollar value. ( so long as it does not take away from the day job!)

I love hunting, but if I tried to calculate the cost ratio, it would be so much cheaper to just go buy the meat at the store. But then I would miss out on time in the woods, and time spent bonding with the kids while hunting. What is THAT cost worth in dollars?? The kids are starting to take an interest in helping me process the wood now and enjoy the fires we have. Not everything in life can be based on a spread sheet........then again I guess that is why Donald Trump is a Billionaire & I will always be in the middle class. At least I get a lot more satisfaction tossing another log on the fire than he does turning up the thermostat.


----------



## troylee (Nov 30, 2014)

stihlaficionado said:


> All the free wood I want via my arborist friend. Round trip to & back from woodlot is 56 miles. Any jobs that I help him with in town I get as much wood as I want. Typical winter gas bill in my neck of the woods is approx $300-$500 a month.
> last winter the largest bill we had was $98.00 & that includes running the water heater on gas.
> So the insert paid for itself in 2 years.



56 miles? Over Bloomington way? I could use an arborist friend!


----------



## troylee (Nov 30, 2014)

My buddy was spending 900 a month to heat his farm rental with LP in 2000. The owner didn't charge rent from Nov-Feb, said having someone in there was payment enough. House is still there, but empty. Can't tear it down till someone in the family dies.


----------



## svk (Nov 30, 2014)

Our house burned 400 gallons of propane a month. Glad it's only for backup use


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

Sorry to hear about your power, NHMike. Definitely ya need a backup that doesn't require juice or get in a survival situation real quick.. Slowp I almost forgot about electric heat. That would run up a serious bill in most parts of North America.


----------



## laynes69 (Nov 30, 2014)

I have a buddy that lives in an uninsulated home, last year he burned over 64 full sized truck loads of wood. They said before they bought their OWB, their heating bill was very high. They spent 8,000 on the boiler. They can't keep up, he works a ton of hours and she is working now also. That would be a situation that would be tough. Unfortunately they could have invested that 8,000 in insulation along with a chimney liner and stove and in return burned a fraction of the wood and stayed much warmer. After spending that much for the boiler, they became slaves to it.


----------



## square1 (Nov 30, 2014)

mga said:


> you said $800 worth of wood. is that what it cost you, or is that what the wood was worth if you were selling it?


That's what I could have sold it for. Do have to admit that when burning wood the house was warmer all day & night than when when I use the gas furnace. It gets set back to 60 degrees at night & when gone to work) so the $300 savings is low if it were an apples to apples comparison.


----------



## pro94lt (Nov 30, 2014)

Always glad to see intelligent threads here. I'd say 90% of adults look at burning wood as free.. and that it is not.


----------



## timberjak (Nov 30, 2014)

I stopped burning wood while propane was around a 1.25 and less. 

Last winter propane hit 4.99/gal. My prepaid would of ran out before the cold did. 

I even run a tree service wood is not an issue. I used to give it away. Just did not want to cut more when i got done cutting all day. 

I burn an owb. The heat does feel better. And i have kids who think doors are not supposed to be completely shut. Not to mention a power outage for extended periods is not that uncommon. I keep a regular woodstove handy as well just in case. 

I do like being less dependent. 




Timberjak


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

timberjak said:


> . And i have kids who think doors are not supposed to be completely shut.



Gosh that post nailed it. If you have kids, you're always wondering where the money went. Who wants to compound it by worrying about the open doors?


----------



## timberjak (Nov 30, 2014)

I dont stress when my boiler is running and doors are left open. 

It also never fails. 

A friend or relative heck anybody before they leave your home. They feel the need to stand in the door while its open. The cold air just flowing in. Literally for 2-10 mins. 
If my propane/electric was running i politely shut my door. If they decided to stay fine. But really folks dont open a door and stand in it when the temps outside are well below zero. While saying your parting convo. 


Timberjak


----------



## svk (Nov 30, 2014)

timberjak said:


> I dont stress when my boiler is running and doors are left open.
> 
> It also never fails.
> 
> ...


I was going to say I thought that was a Minnesota thing. Then I saw that's where you are from LOL.


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

Keep the doors shut is the international language. lol


----------



## timberjak (Nov 30, 2014)

Not in mn. Its a fad to leave someones building cooler than when u arrived. 

My kids have gotten better about it. It must be genetic cause they did not learn it here. 


Timberjak


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

Mother's side. lol


----------



## timberjak (Nov 30, 2014)

Your right there i forget about the inlaws as often as I can. 

Thanks for reminding me. 


Timberjak


----------



## olyman (Nov 30, 2014)

I saw what happened around here just last winter..no propane! You couldn't get it! It was unobtanium for any money for a few weeks. All the trucks got hustled up north to provide propane up there when people where running out due to the polar vortex blast. Thing is, people around here got the same blast and ran out. See, the companies don't give a crap, they go where they can squeeze the most dineros out, they'd let folks freeze around here, they don't care.

QUOTE]
dang straight, zog.. I was talking with a man,,that goes to canada to get it. he said it was 67 cents a gallon....nice LITTLE profit margin...esp when in NE,,they were charging as high as 6.21.......


----------



## president (Nov 30, 2014)

timberjak said:


> Your right there i forget about the inlaws as often as I can.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> ...


Ive often thought I should have installed those heavy hydraulic 
door closers when the place was built


----------



## zogger (Nov 30, 2014)

laynes69 said:


> I have a buddy that lives in an uninsulated home, last year he burned over 64 full sized truck loads of wood. They said before they bought their OWB, their heating bill was very high. They spent 8,000 on the boiler. They can't keep up, he works a ton of hours and she is working now also. That would be a situation that would be tough. Unfortunately they could have invested that 8,000 in insulation along with a chimney liner and stove and in return burned a fraction of the wood and stayed much warmer. After spending that much for the boiler, they became slaves to it.



There are exceptions of course, but typically the best energy savings *are* putting the cash into better insulation, etc. Not upgrading appliances to just burn more fuel. No fuel is free, and once burned, gone.


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

I think we're about to get another tornado here in the Midwest. There's wood for a decade every time it happens.


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

http://www.wandtv.com/story/27500804/northern-illinois-businesses-selling-out-of-firewood


----------



## bayard (Nov 30, 2014)

interesting cost analysis . i use about 8 cords a year,that is 12- 14 truck loads of cut wood .it takes about 1 hour to cut a truck load a .1/2 - 3/4 a cord per load. i go after locust most of the time.i do a few paying jobs, thats even better. 1 hour to split per cord.so 24 -30 hours per year for 6 months of heat and hot water.house is 73-74 deg.


----------



## chucker (Nov 30, 2014)

bayard said:


> interesting cost analysis . i use about 8 cords a year,that is 12- 14 truck loads of cut wood .it takes about 1 hour to cut a truck load a .1/2 - 3/4 a cord per load. i go after locust most of the time.i do a few paying jobs, thats even better. 1 hour to split per cord.so 24 -30 hours per year for 6 months of heat and hot water.house is 73-74 deg.


pretty much cost effective as long as you have the essential's to process wood even to the point of all manual labor.(poulan saw/ axe/maul, wheel barrow, trailer small car or midsized truck.... you don't need the best to get the job done!


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

Cutting cordwood is faster than large chunks and crotches, too. I guess It can be done well a full 3/4 cord pickup load in less time than I do it. I sure like being out there alone without a bunch of loud machinery though.


----------



## c5rulz (Nov 30, 2014)

square1 said:


> If I did it for the money, I wouldn't do it. Can't put a $ figure on the physical & mental benefit gained from a day collecting firewood vs. a day in front of the TV or at my desk in front of the computer.
> 
> Three years ago I burned $800 worth of wood to save $300 in natural gas over the winter after factoring in my Home Owners Insurance premium for a wood burner. Now I just sell the wood


I agree, I did the same thing. The amount of wood I burned will be a wash for the natural gas in my old garage where I had a wood burner.




olyman said:


> woooo, somethings wrong with that scenario.....


 

What is wrong with that. I cut a lot of wood and can sell as much as I cut. My insurance Co put the kibosh on the wood stove in the garage when they asked if there are any combustibles stored inside. Well it's a garage and almost everything has combustibles in there. Now with a natural gas furnace the garage is 45-47 degrees and will rise at the rate of 1 degree a minute to get it toasty when I want to work out there.


----------



## zogger (Nov 30, 2014)

chucker said:


> pretty much cost effective as long as you have the essential's to process wood even to the point of all manual labor.(poulan saw/ axe/maul, wheel barrow, trailer small car or midsized truck.... you don't need the best to get the job done!



That's pretty much it, any chainsaw that runs, an axe or maul, and any sort of vehicle to get the wood home. Anything after that is gravy.


----------



## Dalmatian90 (Nov 30, 2014)

AIM said:


> If you think your time is worth something, burning wood probably doesnt pay off. I charge $35 per hour for myself... IF I COUNT MY TIME....



For the vast majority of folks who do firewood, they either don't have the opportunity or desire to do work for hire instead of firewood.

I could make more than $35/hour doing computer work, but it would just burn my brain out more and leave me less effective at work.

And is the $35 before or after 1/3rd goes to taxes and other deductions? Do the folks who charge their own time also allocate other costs like health insurance? (To be consistent with factoring in wear and tear on equipment...)

===========
Anyway, for me I used to figure $35/cord times four cords per year (probably closer to five).

That was for the equipment I actually used primarily for firewood (and not including some toys that didn't pan out or weren't really necessary) depreciated over expected life, including stove, plus supplies like gas and oil.

I didn't count costs for my truck (would own it otherwise, and extra gas was minimal), or land (I'd own my 12 acres whether it contributed to heating my house or not).

Couple used saws, Fiskars axe, Logrite Peavy, helmet and chaps, my *good* stove is 40 years old and cost me $400 (it replaced a new stove I bought for $199 before steel prices spiked, and sold for $100 eight years later), tool box with miscellaneous tools and supplies. $1000 for the stainless chimney made 15 years ago remains the most expensive item I've bought specifically to burn wood.

Recently I've been buying logs for $100/cord. Better stove, but that reduces my usage to 2 maybe 3 cords a year. Though I can cut my own wood, saves a lot of time buying logs -- and the wood will still be there if my economic situation declines in the future.

So let's call it $150/cord now. $450/year.

Filling up my 275 gallon oil tank is $950 right now if you buy the cheapest oil in Corrupticut. And I went through two tanks a year before I started using kerosene then wood.


----------



## JeffHK454 (Nov 30, 2014)

chucker said:


> pretty much cost effective as long as you have the essential's to process wood even to the point of all manual labor.(poulan saw/ axe/maul, wheel barrow, trailer small car or midsized truck.... you don't need the best to get the job done!





zogger said:


> That's pretty much it, any chainsaw that runs, an axe or maul, and any sort of vehicle to get the wood home. Anything after that is gravy.



This is where I deviate from you guys. 

If I didn't already have a dump truck from scrap hauling and a loader for around my property I wouldn't be messing with fire wood ..and splitting by hand ain't never been a consideration.


----------



## No Regerts (Nov 30, 2014)

I must say it's nice.


----------



## 7hpjim (Nov 30, 2014)

AIM said:


> If you think your time is worth something, burning wood probably doesnt pay off. I charge $35 per hour for myself while I am working so the 2-3 hours per load of wood that lasts me about 1 week would translate into about $350 a month in labor. Plus I hae come up with an approximation of about $9 per truckload in costs. (gas, saws, chains, etc) Add it all up and I am looking at about $386 a month to burn wood IF I COUNT MY TIME....
> I can heat my house with propane for quite a bit less than that. I myself though do not count my time on a saturday or sunday. What else am I doing. Drinking beer? Might as well cut some wood. If I was taking time from work to cut then I'd just buy propane.


Ahh but remember the propane shortage and SPIKE in price last winter, was enough to hurt a large number of people financially, that is one thing you or anybody that heats with firewood will have to worry about


----------



## 7hpjim (Nov 30, 2014)

Its funny people get lulled into the same traps over and over, gas price drops, get a vehicle that drinks it, gas spikes for 2-3 years and new vehicle becomes a millstone around owners neck, oh well @ least all the too big to fail banks will be OK


----------



## cus_deluxe (Nov 30, 2014)

There is no doubt that wood burning makes more sense for some than others. If a guy has to make a 40 mile round trip for some firewood, that can get costly and defeat the purpose (other than mental and physical benefits). Some people with property will have a lot easier time and be able to be more efficient. 
I love the work that goes into firewooding, and im lucky to work at a golf course that seems to remove a handful of trees every year and then pile it up for firewood. pretty handy to clock out and then go fill the truck w wood (wood i got paid to cut in the first place) ,without an extra trip. 
I doubt there is much economy to be had tho, by buying truckloads of logs. last i checked around here a 10 full cord load was about $1600. We could heat our house (and run other gas appliances) for almost 2 years for that $.....improving scrounging skills will help bigtime


----------



## chucker (Nov 30, 2014)

! oh yes, the good old days and ways of our fore fathers and how they toiled from day break till back ache... we suffer the pain of propane or oil, only to foil the man with the dastardly mind to raise the price this we despise ! today is the day we will sit and do none of the old ways!!!! "oh yes, the good old days".......


----------



## Big_Al (Nov 30, 2014)

Don't think it's any cheaper for me to burn wood. I just enjoy cutting & splitting wood. My highest natural gas bill was 150 in January running the furnace . Have 80 acres to cut on but by the time you figure in my time, gas ,oil etc it's a wash.


----------



## cheeves (Nov 30, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Once you add transportation to the equation the Energy Return On Energy Invested (EROEI) goes down dramatically. Since we still have access to cheap fossil fuel energy (for a while), this distortion can still work. As the cost of fossil fuel goes up, and access to it and ability to pay go down, it will stop making sense.
> 
> Of course, if you believe we're going to be the biggest oil & gas producer then don't worry about it.


I feel this new found glut of oil and gas is going to backfire on us dramatically down the road! Just postponing the inevitable.


----------



## Chris-PA (Nov 30, 2014)

cheeves said:


> I feel this new found glut of oil and gas is going to backfire on us dramatically down the road! Just postponing the inevitable.


It's not a glut, it is a financial scam - they are trading oil and gas leases like they bad mortgages. 

The US peaked in oil production in the early 1970's, and we've never come close since. And that oil was vastly less expensive to produce too - price counts. 

It will fail dramatically though!


----------



## No Regerts (Dec 1, 2014)

The one thing that stands proud above the spectacle of collapse which seems to awe so many is the resourcefulness of the rural American people. They leveled our skyscrapers, grounded air travel and major league baseball for a week and all that came with it. Guess what, my fire never went out and my chickens never stopped laying eggs.


----------



## flotek (Dec 1, 2014)

No matter how you cut it and micro analyze it wood heat is good cheap and comfortable . For the guys that say they needed to get a new dually diesel pickup a new husky pro saw. A super splitter drums of gas and drive ten hours one way uphill to get the wood at 80$ an hour of your precious time. ..then yeah it won't pay to do lol for the rest of us the wood is dirt cheap it's local and often times free right on your property .or your neighbors .A day of your leisure time could translate into a month or more of free heat ! That translates not only into a huge savings but also the added God given gift of independence I feel and security knowing my family will always be warm even if there is some national crisis or terrible ice storm we will be okay and not at the mercy of a greedy bank cartel , OPEC , or the rationing of the local fuel oil / propane companies


----------



## timberjak (Dec 1, 2014)

I remember the crash of 08

My brother calls me and says what ya think about all of this?

I ask him do you have a credit card

Nope

Do you have stocks,401k,retirement acct 

Not really no

You have a high payin desk job in a big city 

Heck no

I said dont worry then. The rest of the nation will have to live like u for awhile. The money you make is the money you have thats it. The other losses are not going to affect you. You work hard just like before and you will be fine. 

The economic hamster wheel is what u make of it. You want more then try more. 

Burning wood for me is economical. No natural gas out here. I have 4 daughters whos fav thing is a long hot shower. I get paid thru my tree service to haul out their wood. 
I remember every tree from every job usually. Since i never seem to get an easy tree since 08 
Plus they are usually standing dead and dry!




Timberjak


----------



## slowp (Dec 1, 2014)

Having credit cards does not mean you are being stupid. You do have the option to use it wisely, like cash, and you do have the option of paying it off every month. It's called self discipline.

Those of us who have invested in 401k accounts have had them recover nicely.


----------



## timberjak (Dec 1, 2014)

No offense intended to those that do sir. 

I was just easing my brothers mind about the situation. 

Its all good 


Timberjak


----------



## slowp (Dec 1, 2014)

timberjak said:


> No offense intended to those that do sir.
> 
> I was just easing my brothers mind about the situation.
> 
> ...



I am not a sir.


----------



## svk (Dec 1, 2014)

slowp said:


> Having credit cards does not mean you are being stupid. You do have the option to use it wisely, like cash, and you do have the option of paying it off every month. It's called self discipline.
> 
> Those of us who have invested in 401k accounts have had them recover nicely.


Whoa. I agree with slowp for a change.


----------



## stihlaficionado (Dec 1, 2014)

troylee said:


> 56 miles? Over Bloomington way? I could use an arborist friend!


Rural White Heath, 10 acre wood lot with tons of biomass. Most of the wood is on milled 8x8's so no ground contact.


----------



## firebrick43 (Dec 1, 2014)

slowp said:


> Having credit cards does not mean you are being stupid. You do have the option to use it wisely, like cash, and you do have the option of paying it off every month. It's called self discipline.
> 
> Those of us who have invested in 401k accounts have had them recover nicely.




I was able to make a killing in the crash of 2008 on my 401k. Tripled its value. Got out at the first hint of a major slide and back in at first signs of recovery. 

But I know the future possibility of it being worthless or confiscated as well but hope it will be there for retirement. 
Company is very generous and matches 100% of up to 6% of our pay. Yet only 20% take advantage of it?? Where else can you double your money for nothing?

Firewoods biggest advantage to me happened last week. It was 15 degrees out,9 pm and off went the power. It was off for over 8 hours. Some neighbors were panicking, I just light the Aladdin kerosene lamp and throw another split on the fire. One was going to put in a automatic standby generator until he priced it out. Installed was nearing 8000$


----------



## slowp (Dec 1, 2014)

firebrick43 said:


> Firewoods biggest advantage to me happened last week. It was 15 degrees out,9 pm and off went the power. It was off for over 8 hours. Some neighbors were panicking, I just light the Aladdin kerosene lamp and throw another split on the fire. One was going to put in a automatic standby generator until he priced it out. Installed was nearing 8000$



Yes. I have two of the Aladdin lamps, and assorted camping gear. I've even got a battery powered shower. In the third world part of the country that I lived in, the power would go off during the summer, too. That was a hot and buggy place. Now, I live in a better place, but wish I had the battery powered fan that I now have. I don't have a freezer because then I'd need an emergency generator, and that would see more money flying away. Plus, gas runs out fast here in the hinterlands when we get cut off from the rest of the world. I do like having the availability of a shower, and have extra water cached away for that scenario. Our socialist power company does a fantastic job of keeping our lights on so I haven't had to use it yet.


----------



## svk (Dec 1, 2014)

Without electric I couldn't run the boiler but if it all goes south I've got a gas fireplace insert in one room and a wood fireplace in the other family room. I've got a 1000 gallon propane tank at 80% full so we could cook and supplement the wood heat for the duration of winter. About 2 miles away I know a spot that you can easily catch a 10+ lb northern a day and there are lots of deer close to home so we'd be good for quite a while on food.


----------



## lknchoppers (Dec 1, 2014)

If you think about it you can get your wood home for very little. Scrounging skills are paramount, but I don't mean you have to stop at every little pile of wood and try to get it. Go for quantity and easy access, you will be amazed at how fast you can have a processed cord or ten.


----------



## chucker (Dec 1, 2014)

svk said:


> Without electric I couldn't run the boiler but if it all goes south I've got a gas fireplace insert in one room and a wood fireplace in the other family room. I've got a 1000 gallon propane tank at 80% full so we could cook and supplement the wood heat for the duration of winter. About 2 miles away I know a spot that you can easily catch a 10+ lb northern a day and there are lots of deer close to home so we'd be good for quite a while on food.


lol sounds like were on the same section!! best fridge is right out the back door and a short walk... fish, fur, and feathers take your choice!


----------



## bayard (Dec 1, 2014)

i have a friend up the street who gets 4-5 cords a year with his car.on his way home he stops and gets wood on the side of the road all year long. one old small saw,and splits it all by hand.i am impressed at how little his cost are.


----------



## stihlaficionado (Dec 1, 2014)

cheeves said:


> I feel this new found glut of oil and gas is going to backfire on us dramatically down the road! Just postponing the inevitable.


Any price of crude below $85 --$ 100 per barrel is going to hurt the industry. Exploration & drilling is a multi-billion $ business.
If this continues we're going to see a lot of layoffs


----------



## Chris-PA (Dec 1, 2014)

stihlaficionado said:


> If this continues we're going to see a lot of layoffs


That will be the least of it. We were already approaching the point where the price the economy could tolerate wasn't high enough to pay for extracting this hugely expensive oil, with investors running for the exits or losing their shirts. This game of chicken with Russia may kick it over the edge.


----------



## abbott295 (Dec 1, 2014)

Off topic, but a couple of posts in this thread bring to mind some issues I ponder once in a while:

Do White Heathens co-exist peacefully with the neighboring Mahometans?

Is the Urbanization of Champaign a problem?

Why isn't Fulton in Fulton County, or Clinton in Clinton County?

( I grew up in Illinois, by the way.)


----------



## jrider (Dec 1, 2014)

This is the junk leftover from selling 100+ cords and it supplies all of heat my owb needs to produce


----------



## Dalmatian90 (Dec 1, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> This game of chicken with Russia may kick it over the edge.



Game of chicken? It's an all-out cockfight in what is probably the first skirmish of a new cold war.

The Saudis are quite happy pumping like there is no tomorrow right now -- it is putting the economic screws to Iran during the nuclear talks, it is revenge on the Russians for supporting Assad in Syria, politically they're helping the Americans on the world stage while simultaneously commercially keeping the American & Canadians from taking any bigger piece of the pie.


----------



## Dalmatian90 (Dec 1, 2014)

abbott295 said:


> Off topic, but a couple of posts in this thread bring to mind some issues I ponder once in a while:
> 
> Do White Heathens co-exist peacefully with the neighboring Mahometans?
> 
> ...



Why is East Hampton, CT thirty miles west of Hampton, CT?


----------



## Chris-PA (Dec 1, 2014)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Game of chicken? It's an all-out cockfight in what is probably the first skirmish of a new cold war.
> 
> The Saudis are quite happy pumping like there is no tomorrow right now -- it is putting the economic screws to Iran during the nuclear talks, it is revenge on the Russians for supporting Assad in Syria, politically they're helping the Americans on the world stage while simultaneously commercially keeping the American & Canadians from taking any bigger piece of the pie.


But SA is not in the position they were the last time we pulled this maneuver to damage the USSR economy. SA is past peak, with a huge water cut - they are pumping water with a thin stain of oil. I doubt they can keep it up long enough. And all the while Russia builds stronger ties with Asia. 

It's a hell of a show - I wonder how many realize the magnitude of what is happening?


----------



## spike60 (Dec 1, 2014)

You can poke a calculator until you come up with whatever numbers you want to support your own preferred point of view. So, each of us, in our own reality are correct in that sense. But there's more going on here than just the math. I don't really buy into the "factor in your time" part of the equation though. Not unless you measure every one of your leisure/spare time activities with the same yardstick. Is every hour of every day allotted by whether or not you could be making money? 

I live smack in the middle of a hardwood forest. I'm surrounded by wood. I've never paid for a stick of wood. The whole firewood thing is a good fit with the chainsaw hobby that many of us share. Those two activities are what I like to call "mutually supporting". The firewood is a usefull byproduct of being a saw geek, and cutting that wood allows me to play with the saws. Obviously there is some cost in procuring the wood, so it's not completely free. But.........it's awful close.  I figure I save $3000+ a year heating with wood. 

Then there's all the other stuff that guys have been pointing out. Excercize, energy independence, heat when the power goes out., getting together with some friends to cut wood, and just plain enjoying the entire process. I have to think that nearly all of us on this board get some enjoyment from this process otherwise we wouldn't be spending all this time here discussing it. It's so much more than just the cold hard numbers.


----------



## brenndatomu (Dec 1, 2014)

laynes69 said:


> I have a buddy that lives in an uninsulated home, last year he burned over 64 full sized truck loads of wood. They said before they bought their OWB, their heating bill was very high. They spent 8,000 on the boiler. They can't keep up, he works a ton of hours and she is working now also. That would be a situation that would be tough. Unfortunately they could have invested that 8,000 in insulation along with a chimney liner and stove and in return burned a fraction of the wood and stayed much warmer. After spending that much for the boiler, they became slaves to it.


I'd tell your buddy to send that suckah down the road! Seems there are plenty of future wood slaves waiting in line for a "good deal" on a used OWB, so I would think they should be able to recoup most of their initial "investment", then _insulate_ and install a stove as you said...


----------



## sb47 (Dec 1, 2014)

I would say it all depends on many factors. such availability, type of wood and cost to process what you need.
And of course your time.
Id say some years it makes no difference, other years there can be a big savings to wood heat. 
On a health note, your most likely to be in much better physical condition gathering and storing your own wood.
Economically, your off the grid, and that is worth a lot to me.
Amateurs probably lose money till they get the hang of how to process proficiently, Once one get experienced and has common since and have learned a better way do much better. 

When they call up and say I'm cold can you sell me some firewood, I say sure. Then they hear the price and all of the sudden they think your trying to rip them off.
I tell there fat asses to go find haul cut split and stack and season your own wood and then get back to me and tell me how I am ripping you off.
Pay the price or go somewhere else where the prices are all the same. Or stay cold, I don't care.

It reminds me of the grasshopper and the ant. 

Dennis


----------



## sb47 (Dec 1, 2014)

By the way I had 45 calls for firewood just today alone.
Why do these people wait till it gets cold before ordering wood?
Two thing are a guaranty about the weather. It gets hot in the summer and cold in the winter.
These are the very people that will beg plead and steal when the **** hits the fan. 
They don't look ahead or paperer for it even though they know its coming. 
I say let them suffer.


----------



## Big_Wood (Dec 1, 2014)

my house is heated with geo-thermal through the floors and a swear it costs no more then $15 a month just to run the heat exchanger and circulation fan.  takes a while to adjust the heat because it takes so long to heat up or cool down but once it's set right i'm laughing. floors always be nice and toasty, air always be just right and i can set every separate room to be a different temp. i only sell wood these days but i do miss burning it for heat.


----------



## firebrick43 (Dec 1, 2014)

westcoaster90 said:


> my house is heated with geo-thermal through the floors and a swear it costs no more then $15 a month just to run the heat exchanger and circulation fan.  takes a while to adjust the heat because it takes so long to heat up or cool down but once it's set right i'm laughing. floors always be nice and toasty, air always be just right and i can set every separate room to be a different temp. i only sell wood these days but i do miss burning it for heat.



How much was the equipment cost?


----------



## Big_Wood (Dec 1, 2014)

sub division my house is in was fitted with it before our building was done being built. i believe it was an experiment but it sure worked out. the system is powered by a central circulation pump for the floor heat and then we have an hvac designed to pull heat from the foundation to heat the air. heck, i can be outside in -10c, touch my foundation and it will be toasty warm. a block away there is a field that the geo thermal system is built on. i think they plan on making it a ball field cause nothing can be built on it due to that system being underground there.


----------



## sb47 (Dec 1, 2014)

My house is extremely insinuated.
before I remodeled I spent over a year gathering up use scrap wood from dumpsters at new housing projects.
Then I used it when i remodeled. 

Let me explain. I live in a 1974 festival double wide trailer.
The outside is aluminum siding, then the outer walls are 2x4" with 1" of rolled isolation and a thin 1/8" paneling on the inside.
My AC bills were in the 500 dollar range.

So here is what I did. I guided the whole house down to just studs and the outside siding. I took a bunch of that 1/2 foam board isolation and cut strips and put a layer on the first layer. Then I took 3" rolled batting and covered that. Then I used old pieces of odd shaped plywood and decked over the outer walls. Then I put another layer of the 1/2 foam board over that. 
Then i re studded a inner wall of 2x6's and dropped the ceiling down 6'. Then I ran all my electrical and plumbing through the inner walls. Then I used 6" rolled batting and filled the 6' gap between the two walls. I then took the rest of the 1/2 plywood and decked over that. then I used 1/2' sheet rock and finished out the inner walls. 
That gave me a 4" fully isolated outer wall and a 6' fully isolated inner wall. The plywood was for keeping the house square and from racking back and forth during hurricane season. 
Almost all the material was free and I had t piece it together. 
I also use drywall screws on everything, they just hold better then even a ribbed nail. Plus I can take something apart without tearing it up. 

I have no idea of what the R value is but my AC bill went down from 500 to 80 dollars a month. 

Over kill, Absolutely, but the material was free and it has paid off in thousands over the years.

Lets see the big bad wolf blow my house down now! lol


----------



## Big_Wood (Dec 1, 2014)

my hydro is $40 a month but we get it in 2 month increments so $80 every 2 months. i'm running alot of **** too. factor in the dollar difference as well and i'm paying just over $30 USD a month  our last place was brutal at $350 every 2 months but i would choose to go back to that i think cause i got a huge 2 door garage and 5 bedroom house heated with wood. was some good times. more expensive but alot more fun. houses that heat themselves are annoying  convenient but annoying  i guess it does allow me to sell wood to make extra money rather then burn it though.


----------



## sb47 (Dec 1, 2014)

To calculate the R value, you have to add the 1' isolation I left in place, plus the 1/2 foam board and the 3'' of rolled batting.
Then the 1/2 plywood and the other 1/2 foam board I covered that up with. Then factor in 6' more batting and another 1/2 layer of plywood then the 1/2 sheet rock. 
Anyone got an idea of the r value?


----------



## chucker (Dec 1, 2014)

like you said "over kill" but it must work ... somewhere in the neighbor hood of r 30+ since wood is supposed to not have an r value... 6"@18 +3"@11+1"@2.5+.5"@1+.5"@1=(18+11+2.5+1+1)=33.5 roughly depending on the r of the foam board.....


----------



## sb47 (Dec 1, 2014)

I'l take a 33% r value over a 3 r value any day.
Thanks for the input.


----------



## CTYank (Dec 1, 2014)

Been using woodstoves since the late '70s, and laughing all the way to the bank. Got to be a pretty competent scrounger. Navy-buddy who worked for Mobil was fellow-sawyer got a discount on oil from Mobil- no big help to him financially. He was the "numbers-person".

Recent years I've been volunteering, mainly with saws on the p/u, for local Land Trust and now the Audubon Society. With the LT, we just put in place a 400-tree plantation of blight-resistant American Chestnut. Took a week's+ work prepping the property, clearing the boundary and removing decrepit ash trees, ailanthus, etc. Chipper being limited to 8", guess whose p/u hauled out much of the wood, definitely not ailanthus, though, only white ash.

A big white oak blowdown on the same property is ready to be split for hauling out. Two to three serious loads on a lil Ford Ranger. No shortage of such exercise available on more of the many properties owned by that Trust. Jeans that used to fit tightly now fall down without a belt. That's a huge benefit, maybe the biggest. All the wood I can haul is seen as partial payback; no argument there.

Now the Audubon folks have arranged some sort of scheme, on paper or wherever, to be able to go forward clearing up massive damage from Sandy. Of course as a volunteer, my pay is all the wood I can load & haul, starting with some hickories, thanks. So many large oaks hanging! So many I may have to talk to @spike60 about deals on a 372 or 576.

If you make yourself available to volunteer with folks that can find an opening for you, and you can do the job, it seems that good things can happen. After a while, "word gets around". As to the numbers, no gym could exercise body & mind to that extent, there are some serious deductions in play, and I can load out all the prime wood I can handle. All of it is about as much fun as you can have clothed.

Some LT people would like me to work on servers, but being retired, that'd be really boring, and no wood to cut & load there.


----------



## sb47 (Dec 1, 2014)

Here is an interesting fact i discovered during my remodel project. Some of the 3/4 ply I used in the floor was already painted and some was not. In the winter, the painted floor was colder to the feel then the non painted wood.


----------



## sb47 (Dec 2, 2014)

The main cost of firewood is transportation cost. Wood is heavy and gas is high.
My Mesquite suppler went from 250 a cord to 500 a cord, overnight. He clams its because he hast to haul it further.
Same with my hickory dealer, he said the timber company doesn't want it and he can take all he wants.
He has a 18 wheeler logging truck with a loader arm on it, so he can load and unload where ever he wants.
I asked hi how much can you haul in one load, he said about 8 to 10 cords of strait logs.
I then asked how much you charge to deliver me a load, he said about 600 dollars.
I reached into my pocket and said, hey I work strictly with cash and I have here 1000 dollars and am ready for your delivery.
He seemed happy to make a sale and said he'd get right in it. Been calling and even stopped by and he keeps making up every excuse in the book why he cant do it.
I'm no fool, I didn't pay till I saw wood on my lot. His loss, not mine.

But to be fair we all sometimes get caught up into something that diverts our attention.


----------



## svk (Dec 2, 2014)

sb47 said:


> The main cost of firewood is transportation cost. Wood is heavy and gas is high.
> My Mesquite suppler went from 250 a cord to 500 a cord, overnight. He clams its because he hast to haul it further.
> Same with my hickory dealer, he said the timber company doesn't want it and he can take all he wants.
> He has a 18 wheeler logging truck with a loader arm on it, so he can load and unload where ever he wants.
> ...


Getting a semi load of logs can be a challenge these days around here. Price is way up as truckers are in much higher demand. All of the railroads are shipping more and more oil related stuff which is pushing agriculture and mining onto the highways. Truckers are much more interested in getting good pay from a corporate contract versus hauling logs for a low yield. 

One of the larger firewood guys around here is the brother of a logger and still has trouble getting logs hauled in.


----------



## olyman (Dec 2, 2014)

sb47 said:


> I would say it all depends on many factors. such availability, type of wood and cost to process what you need.
> And of course your time.
> Id say some years it makes no difference, other years there can be a big savings to wood heat.
> On a health note, your most likely to be in much better physical condition gathering and storing your own wood.
> ...


  straight!!!


----------



## olyman (Dec 2, 2014)

sb47 said:


> By the way I had 45 calls for firewood just today alone.
> Why do these people wait till it gets cold before ordering wood?
> Two thing are a guaranty about the weather. It gets hot in the summer and cold in the winter.
> These are the very people that will beg plead and steal when the **** hits the fan.
> ...


 two in a row!!!!


----------



## Sawdust inspector (Dec 2, 2014)

I figure it takes me a 30 pack of beer per 3 cords made


----------



## Chris-PA (Dec 2, 2014)

Sawdust inspector said:


> I figure it takes me a 30 pack of beer per 3 cords made


The 30 pack is a wonderful invention - you can drink a 6 pack on the way and still have a case when you get there!


----------



## olyman (Dec 2, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> The 30 pack is a wonderful invention - you can drink a 6 pack on the way and still have a case when you get there!


 and be alcohol impaired,, cutting wood....yup.....


----------



## Chris-PA (Dec 2, 2014)

olyman said:


> and be alcohol impaired,, cutting wood....yup.....


Apparently, just like logic, humor is lost on you.


----------



## olyman (Dec 2, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> Apparently, just like logic, humor is lost on you.


 BS..........whassamatter,,get caught??? so you dodge??? phony...


----------



## cus_deluxe (Dec 2, 2014)

Big_Al said:


> Don't think it's any cheaper for me to burn wood. I just enjoy cutting & splitting wood. My highest natural gas bill was 150 in January running the furnace . Have 80 acres to cut on but by the time you figure in my time, gas ,oil etc it's a wash.


On this note, even if on paper it may come out "a wash", that does little to consider the actual cost of fossil fuel production and the way it is used in this country. There is plenty of gas that can be produced to power saws and splitters forever. a staggering % of the fuel in this country goes to food production (corn for cows). Burning firewood is as close to carbon-neutral as you can get with combustion. this does have to count for something


----------



## hamish (Dec 2, 2014)

swed1162 said:


> Plus remember if you use oil to heat your house a lot of the profit goes to people that really don't like us.



You best figure out where your oil supplies are coming from, as the vast majority are domestic.


----------



## sb47 (Dec 2, 2014)

cus_deluxe said:


> On this note, even if on paper it may come out "a wash", that does little to consider the actual cost of fossil fuel production and the way it is used in this country. There is plenty of gas that can be produced to power saws and splitters forever. a staggering % of the fuel in this country goes to food production (corn for cows). Burning firewood is as close to carbon-neutral as you can get with combustion. this does have to count for something




You have some good points. working up your own wood for heat does off set fossil fuels.
lots of wood doesn't nee a lot of processing to be used as fuel.
And it keeps you in shape.

But every living thing is carbon based, that includes wood. when a tree dies and rots on the ground, It is relising that stored up carbon at a slow rate.
When you burn it, you release's it at a faster rate.
The world is made of carbon, it's only the amount that is being stored and realest that keeps the balance of our weather the same.
If this balance were to change, witch history proves it does in natural cycles, be man made or not, the weather and climate will tip and eventual change anyway, with or with out us.


----------



## hamish (Dec 2, 2014)

olyman said:


> and be alcohol impaired,, cutting wood....yup.....


On 6 beers? Best not travel north.


----------



## sb47 (Dec 2, 2014)

hamish said:


> On 6 beers? Best not travel north.


I'd have to stop and pee so many times, I'd never get there!


----------



## hamish (Dec 2, 2014)

I live rural, closest natural gas available is a pot of beans on the stove, most insurance companies in the province will no longer insure if heating with oil, so things boil down to propane or wood. Wood is my primary heat source with propane reserved for cooking, hot water, fridge, and backup minimal heat during the winter.
Everywhere I look theres wood. Cut about 2 cord a year just heading to the lake to go fishing. Cutting wood for me is not a job or a chore, just a way of life/hobby.
I live small and simple, burn about 10x of wood in the shop than I do at the shack.


----------



## brenndatomu (Dec 2, 2014)

hamish said:


> most insurance companies in the province will no longer insure if heating with oil


Really?! What the heck is the issue with oil heat as far as ins. co. is concerned?!


----------



## hamish (Dec 2, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> Really?! What the heck is the issue with oil heat as far as ins. co. is concerned?!


Basically a political bureaucracy that feeds upon themselves and ensure the continuance of there practices, at the cost of the other voters and all taxpayers. Too many layers of government and agencies make a simple 2 gal oil spill at a residence a million plus ordeal.


----------



## sb47 (Dec 3, 2014)

westcoaster90 said:


> sub division my house is in was fitted with it before our building was done being built. i believe it was an experiment but it sure worked out. the system is powered by a central circulation pump for the floor heat and then we have an hvac designed to pull heat from the foundation to heat the air. heck, i can be outside in -10c, touch my foundation and it will be toasty warm. a block away there is a field that the geo thermal system is built on. i think they plan on making it a ball field cause nothing can be built on it due to that system being underground there.




Is it one of those that circulate water through pluming in the flooring?
If so the only draw back is you have a power outage and those pipes freeze, it would be a mess.
Maybe there full of glycall and cant freeze. just guessing.


----------



## CRThomas (Dec 3, 2014)

If do not have a job where you get no excersize. You need to do firewood to stay a live. I am 74 years old I do firewood to stay alive and healthy you have to put that in your figures unless living not important too you. I go our drop 4 or 5 trees thats about 4 loads about 16 to 20 tons. If I have no deliverys the next day I split it which comes to about 4 cord after processing it in to bundles 1 cord ends up as trash wood because it want bundle nice and I sell it for $35.00 a rank they pick it up. I don't cut wood off my place that is emergency wood . I have to travel 18 to 20 miles but have way I stop and eat breakfast. But I don't burn wood my home is electric $70.00 to $100.00 a month My shop garage and Gen set is NG $19.00 a month. Every holiday we burn a fire in our fire place to look at. If I had to work hard at firewood I would quit.


----------



## sb47 (Dec 3, 2014)

CRThomas said:


> If do not have a job where you get no excersize. You need to do firewood to stay a live. I am 74 years old I do firewood to stay alive and healthy you have to put that in your figures unless living not important too you. I go our drop 4 or 5 trees thats about 4 loads about 16 to 20 tons. If I have no deliverys the next day I split it which comes to about 4 cord after processing it in to bundles 1 cord ends up as trash wood because it want bundle nice and I sell it for $35.00 a rank they pick it up. I don't cut wood off my place that is emergency wood . I have to travel 18 to 20 miles but have way I stop and eat breakfast. But I don't burn wood my home is electric $70.00 to $100.00 a month My shop garage and Gen set is NG $19.00 a month. Every holiday we burn a fire in our fire place to look at. If I had to work hard at firewood I would quit.



Gotta agree, you gotta keep moving to say alive, My mother is 81 and still bowls 3 day a week.


----------



## olyman (Dec 3, 2014)

hamish said:


> On 6 beers? Best not travel north.


 if you get pulled over,, and submit to a alcohol test..................


----------



## olyman (Dec 3, 2014)

most insurance companies in the province will no longer insure if heating with oil, .[/QUOTE]
all the ins co's get together for that one??? sheeesh.......


----------



## jrider (Dec 3, 2014)

hamish said:


> You best figure out where your oil supplies are coming from, as the vast majority are domestic.


 http://www.realclearenergy.org/charticles/2012/04/23/where_does_the_us_gets_its_oil_106533.html
I wouldn't say the vast majority, but quite a bit more than what most people probably think.


----------



## Big_Wood (Dec 3, 2014)

sb47 said:


> Is it one of those that circulate water through pluming in the flooring?
> If so the only draw back is you have a power outage and those pipes freeze, it would be a mess.
> Maybe there full of glycall and cant freeze. just
> 
> To tell you the truth I don't even know. I do know the pipes they use are a 1" with a 4" around it and foam in between them. I was here while this place was being built. I don't think it has anything to do with water but Ya never know. Never froze up on us ever though if it does.


----------



## timberjak (Dec 3, 2014)

Im hoping that the wood heat is getting cheaper yet. 

I had an aquastat go out on me recently. 

I live in a small town and i needed something sooner than later. 

I installed a home water heater type aquastat. It was cheap and adjustable. And readily available. 

Like 80 dollars cheaper than my last one. 

So far it works great. 




Timberjak


----------



## CTYank (Dec 4, 2014)

hamish said:


> You best figure out where your oil supplies are coming from, as the vast majority are domestic.



IIRC, that hasn't been true in the US since the '40s. Some recent figures show daily oil consumption in the US of 18.7 MegB/day, with imports running between 9 & 12 MegB/D, about 33% of those imports from Canada, about 99% of Canada's exports.

Except for Bakken shale crude, there'd be a big difference, in domestic production. And that's pretty recent, of course.


----------



## Whitespider (Dec 4, 2014)

Einstein said time is relative... and so it is.

There ain't nothin' wrong with placing value on your time, but it can't always be monetary... or, at least a set monetary value. Yeah, when you go to work for someone (or even yourself) your time is valued in dollars (in this society). But if you value your off-time in work-time dollars... everything is a looser. Just cuttin' the grass, I spend 4-6 hours a week (depending) plus time for equipment maintenance; if I place the same monetary value on that time as I get paid at work... heck, I can hire it done a lot cheaper, plus I wouldn't need to buy and maintain the equipment‼ I choose to spend that time cuttin' the grass, so I can spend the money I would'a paid to hire it out for something else. My cost of cuttin' the grass is the cost of equipment/fuel/maintenance, divided by the years, how many times a year the grass needs cuttin'... then subtract that value from what it would'a cost me to hire the job out, and that's the amount my time saved each week of the the grass cuttin' season.

So let's say I cut grass 15 times a year, and I could hire it out for $100.00... and using the above equipment/fuel/maintenance math I figure it costs me $35.00 each time. So I save $65.00, divided by a 5½-hour average each time (includes time for maintenance and cleanup)... $11.82 per hour, $975.00 per year. Well crap, if I start thinkin' $11.82 an hour ain't worth my time, and I'll just hire it out... I don't have the extra $975.00 at Christmas time, or when I take the family on vacation. Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I can't afford to hire everything out, I don't have enough money commin' in... and $975.00 is a pretty good chunk of change in my world.

Heck... if I hired the job out, sat on the porch watchin' and drinkin' a box-o-beer, what does it actually cost me??
*


----------



## olyman (Dec 4, 2014)

timberjak said:


> Im hoping that the wood heat is getting cheaper yet.
> 
> I had an aquastat go out on me recently.
> 
> ...


 thinking outside the box,, I like it...


----------



## CRThomas (Dec 4, 2014)

olyman said:


> I saw what happened around here just last winter..no propane! You couldn't get it! It was unobtanium for any money for a few weeks. All the trucks got hustled up north to provide propane up there when people where running out due to the polar vortex blast. Thing is, people around here got the same blast and ran out. See, the companies don't give a crap, they go where they can squeeze the most dineros out, they'd let folks freeze around here, they don't care.
> 
> QUOTE]
> dang straight, zog.. I was talking with a man,,that goes to canada to get it. he said it was 67 cents a gallon....nice LITTLE profit margin...esp when in NE,,they were charging as high as 6.21.......


Where I live we have NG 0.43 cents a gallon 16 miles away it is $1.19 a gallon whats wrong with this picture


----------



## chucker (Dec 4, 2014)

cr Thomas="Where I live we have NG 0.43 cents a gallon 16 miles away it is $1.19 a gallon whats wrong with this picture" like everything else new , its cheaper to draw you in! after you are signed up for service and connected to their meter you are screwed !!you old fuel oil/propane tank has disappeared for the last time and like me giving them the friendly bird for a farewell !! now you are really screwed!! join the club as I, will find out next spring when the propane man get's his high flyer!!


----------



## firebrick43 (Dec 4, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Heck... if I hired the job out, sat on the porch watchin' and drinkin' a box-o-beer, what does it actually cost me??
> *



What brand of beer? PBR
How good are you at drinking that beer? Meaning is a box to you six or twenty four?


----------



## Whitespider (Dec 4, 2014)

firebrick43 said:


> _*What brand of beer? PBR*_
> _*How good are you at drinking that beer? Meaning is a box to you six or twenty four?*_


*LOL*
I only know of two brands of beer... Budweiser and free... I drink 'em both.
A box-o-beer holds 24 cans... a 12-pack is a small box, a 18-pack is a short box (or light box), a 30-pack is a big box (or heavy box), and 6-packs don't come in a box (do people actually buy 6-packs?).
No self-respectin', beer-swillin', Iowa boy would show-up with a small box, it ain't proper form. But if the short box is on sale it's OK... as long as ya' show-up with two of 'em 
There's a lot of handy size coolers that will hold 12 cans and bag of ice; so a small box is useful for filling that cooler, which is normally left in the trunk or behind the seat as back-up... 'cause ya' just never know, do ya'?? B'sides, ya' might get thirsty on the way home.

How good am I at drinkin' beer?? Heck man... I'm a friggin' professional‼
*


----------



## stihly dan (Dec 4, 2014)

So the great American spidey, Supports the country that hostilly took over an American legend, icon, soul of the country. What a shame.


----------



## 1project2many (Dec 4, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> *LOL*
> I only know of two brands of beer... Budweiser and free... I drink 'em both.
> A box-o-beer holds 24 cans... a 12-pack is a small box, a 18-pack is a short box (or light box), a 30-pack is a big box (or heavy box), and 6-packs don't come in a box (do people actually buy 6-packs?).
> No self-respectin', beer-swillin', Iowa boy would show-up with a small box, it ain't proper form. But if the short box is on sale it's OK... as long as ya' show-up with two of 'em
> ...




Years ago a friend's uncle ran an industrial dump. One day my friend gets a call... "Get a truck and get down here ASAP!" All we could get was a '69 El Camino and Unc wouldn't say what was up, so we grabbed the car and headed out. We get down to the dump and there's case after case after case of Busch beer in cans. Turns out there were only 11 ounces in those 12 ounce cans. The bottler just dumped all the inventory in question. We stacked beer into that wanna-bee pickup until it was so tipsy we thought it was gonna fall, then we scrounged around for plywood to make sides and rope and tied it off. We had to drive nearly 60 miles to get back home with the rear wheels hitting the fenderwells and the car feeling like it would tip at every turn, bump, and wind gust but eventually we made it. And we didn't even have to take any beer out of the back since Unc was nice enough to find us a cooler and give us some of the unclaimed beer to put inside for the ride. I was 18 when this happened and it seems like we drank Bush for years after that but I'm betting that load was gone before the end of summer. Folks seem surprised when I say I quit drinking at 21 but there's probably good reason. And although I was a pretty competent amateur I 've never claimed I was a perfessional because perfessionals get paid.


----------



## zogger (Dec 4, 2014)

1project2many said:


> Years ago a friend's uncle ran an industrial dump. One day my friend gets a call... "Get a truck and get down here ASAP!" All we could get was a '69 El Camino and Unc wouldn't say what was up, so we grabbed the car and headed out. We get down to the dump and there's case after case after case of Busch beer in cans. Turns out there were only 11 ounces in those 12 ounce cans. The bottler just dumped all the inventory in question. We stacked beer into that wanna-bee pickup until it was so tipsy we thought it was gonna fall, then we scrounged around for plywood to make sides and rope and tied it off. We had to drive nearly 60 miles to get back home with the rear wheels hitting the fenderwells and the car feeling like it would tip at every turn, bump, and wind gust but eventually we made it. And we didn't even have to take any beer out of the back since Unc was nice enough to find us a cooler and give us some of the unclaimed beer to put inside for the ride. I was 18 when this happened and it seems like we drank Bush for years after that but I'm betting that load was gone before the end of summer. Folks seem surprised when I say I quit drinking at 21 but there's probably good reason. And although I was a pretty competent amateur I 've never claimed I was a perfessional because perfessionals get paid.



Ha! Great scrounge! One of those things you wish you had pics of later on in years.


----------



## Bob95065 (Dec 4, 2014)

No Regerts said:


> It takes me up to a good six hours including sometimes a 15-40 mile round trip when I go out for the purpose of cutting and bringing home and stacking enough processed wood to heat my house and shop for one week. That can get into two chains, expense of driving, half gallon of mix, you know depreciation on the stuff, etc. Broken maul handles so-on. I like driving my truck so that's just a trip to the woods. The OWB is paid for twice in saved heat over 13 years. I get all my wood from tops I leave behind logging so access is free and it makes farmers happy.
> 
> What's the cost/benefit though if you value your time and expense monetarily vs. purchasing wood, oil, coal or gas whatever is in your area?



I get wood free so my cost is fuel and time. We burn about 4 cords a year.

I have a diesel truck that is pretty fuel efficient. I rarely drive more than 20 miles one-way for firewood. Lately I have scored wood from arborists that removed trees. I pick it up on the way home from work. If I fill my truck and trailer I can haul around 1.5 cords per load. To be conservative let's say I average 10 MPG loaded, truck and trailer. This is very conservative because I average 20MPG empty. I'll say 40 miles one-way or 80 miles round trip. If I bring 4 loads home I burned 32 gallons and at $4/gallon (high) I spent $128 in diesel.

I'll be conservative again and say $50 in gas, 2 cycle oil and B/C oil. I'm up to $180.

I bought a pile of chains from a dealer that went out of business a few years ago. They were demo chains and all were only used once or new loops. I paid $4 each and have a minimum of 6 loops for all my firewood saws but one. I file by hand and buy files in bulk. 

I buy clothes for outdoor work I probably wouldn't if I didn't heat with wood. I have safety gear like chaps, safety screen glasses and hearing protection too. 

I split with a maul and found a local hardware store chain that gives a lifetime guarantee on wood handles for my two mauls. I can't believe they exchange them but then again they made up the rule not me. 

I never bought a piece of power equipment new. I either bought my saws not running and fixed them or used. I have an old log splitter that someone gave me because the engine threw a rod. They asked me to haul it to the dump. I brought it straight home.

I figure it would cost us around $200 - $300 per month to heat our house. I think I am way ahead.

Now for the benefits that are hard to quantify.

I am a mechanical engineer. I sit at a desk and work on the floor when they need me. We have a gym at work that few take advantage of. I go daily. The trainers ask me what my goals are. I tell them I want to spliit hard oak all day. No one seems to understand. I lift weights and run every day to stay in shape for firewood season.

I pass physicals with flying colors. An engineer in my industry did a study on retirees. The average aerospace retiree collects 9 pension checks. Cutting and splitting wood keeps me active, helps me relax and burn off stress. Plus there is nothing more peaceful then standing out in the woods, in the beauty of nature with a 90cc chainsaw screaming wide open in your hands. 

I know how to do things others where I work don't. I fix broken machines with my own two hands. I don't pay people to work on my house, cars or equipment. I have skills that are practical that I can and do use every week. I love rebuilding saws that were straight gassed or run lean. I sell saws I don't want or need. I may or may not have a problem collecting chainsaws (CAD) so pretty much all the money I made rebuilding saws went back into saws. - but I can quit anytime, honest.

I grew up with wood heat in Illinois and I plan to bring up my two boys the same way. At 6 and 4 they help stack wood as much as they can. A life outside doing things in the yard will be so much better than TV and video games.

I can't put a price on these things. I know am ahead financially heating with wood and the savings has only grown with the passing years. As far as I am concerned the benefits I can't quantify far outweigh the benefits I can. 

Bob


----------



## woodchuck357 (Dec 5, 2014)

I have hauled in a very few loads of wood this year that I was not paid for removing, mostly from vollenter work helping folks that were in a bind. so I have to figure my wood as free except for the splitting. I give away as much or more than I burn most years.
I may have to sell a couple of rick to make up for dropping cash to buy that x27.


----------



## wood4heat (Dec 5, 2014)

Maybe it's just me but the house is far more comfortable when there is a fire going in the wood stove. It's something deeper than the heat that I can't put into words just now. I love ending the day out here in the light of the Christmas tree and the warm glow of the fire as the rest of my family sleeps. No tv, the only sound is the occasional crackling of the fire. After the stresses of the day what kind of $$$ value would you put on this?


----------



## Whitespider (Dec 5, 2014)

1project2many said:


> _*Folks seem surprised when I say I quit drinking at 21 but there's probably good reason.
> ...I was a pretty competent amateur I 've never claimed I was a perfessional because perfessionals get paid.*_


Yes, professionals _may_ be paid... but amateurs _may_ also. The label, or title, of "professional" may also be a way of crediting/describing someone's background, training, experience, education, and whatnot. In an over-simplification... an "amateur" knows just enough to screw something up and can easily get-in-over-his-head, a "professional" knows just enough so he won't screw it up and is experienced enough to know when to quit before gettin'-in-over-his-head.
I gave up drinkin' (and a few other things) in my early 20's, spent 7 weeks in a rehab center... didn't touch a single drop for 18 years. Before that I screwed-up a lot of things in my life (and others lives), all of it attributable to my substance abuse. There's a big difference between me back then, and me now. Back then I was a "_pretty competent_(?) _amateur_"... now I'm a "_professional_".
*


----------



## olyman (Dec 5, 2014)

Bob95065 said:


> I get wood free so my cost is fuel and time. We burn about 4 cords a year.
> 
> I have a diesel truck that is pretty fuel efficient. I rarely drive more than 20 miles one-way for firewood. Lately I have scored wood from arborists that removed trees. I pick it up on the way home from work. If I fill my truck and trailer I can haul around 1.5 cords per load. To be conservative let's say I average 10 MPG loaded, truck and trailer. This is very conservative because I average 20MPG empty. I'll say 40 miles one-way or 80 miles round trip. If I bring 4 loads home I burned 32 gallons and at $4/gallon (high) I spent $128 in diesel.
> 
> ...


 you can quit at aaaaaaaany time ....you know how many times that's been stated on here,, by others???????????? and the rest of the post,,is dead on!!!! what is EXCELLENT health worth..and time spent with the kids!!!!! PRICELESS!!!


----------



## olyman (Dec 5, 2014)

CRThomas said:


> Where I live we have NG 0.43 cents a gallon 16 miles away it is $1.19 a gallon whats wrong with this picture


 ripoff???? why,, it couldn't be ANY gas or oil co!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 1project2many (Dec 5, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Yes, professionals _may_ be paid... but amateurs _may_ also. The label, or title, of "professional" may also be a way of crediting/describing someone's background, training, experience, education, and whatnot. In an over-simplification... an "amateur" knows just enough to screw something up and can easily get-in-over-his-head, a "professional" knows just enough so he won't screw it up and is experienced enough to know when to quit before gettin'-in-over-his-head.
> I gave up drinkin' (and a few other things) in my early 20's, spent 7 weeks in a rehab center... didn't touch a single drop for 18 years. Before that I screwed-up a lot of things in my life (and others lives), all of it attributable to my substance abuse. There's a big difference between me back then, and me now. Back then I was a "_pretty competent_(?) _amateur_"... now I'm a "_professional_".
> *



I don't believe that's a sufficient way to separate the two groups. I've spent many an hour repairing vehicles fixed incorrectly by other professionals. For many years it was a big part of my job. There were plenty of times they did their best and tried, but just didn't understand the whole problem. I don't think it would be fair to say they weren't professionals because they didn't know enough to stop. These are guys that did everything they could to fix a customer's problem but just didn't see it they way I did.

I've also been extremely impressed by maintenance and repairs performed by amateurs. There are guys out there that go above and beyond in ensuring tools and equipment receive all the care that's required and more. They know what they can do, they know what they shouldn't do, and they know who they trust when they can't do a job. But these guys aren't doing this for paycheck or profit. All they receive is satisfaction. I don't believe it would be right to call them professionals.

In my opinion the professional has an obligation to watch his bottom line while an amateur can dedicate all the time needed to produce a desired outcome. If you look at a competitive field and try to associate "professional" with "all the time needed to do an excellent job" you'll only find disappointment. I came into the business of vehicle repair as an amateur who enjoyed doing the job as well as could be done. It took many years to reconcile that with what it takes in the industry to be profitable and take home a reasonable paycheck. It takes maturity and integrity for a professional to sacrifice the bottom line when a job requires more time than profitable. It takes a level of financial security for that professional to continuously spend additional time on jobs in order to maintain a reputation. And it takes customers who understand the sacrifice and respond with true appreciation, and with payment when required, in order to keep that professional in the industry long enough to become the guy you're describing.


----------



## Whitespider (Dec 5, 2014)

Oh man 1project2many, the whole being a "professional" beer drinker thing was tongue-in-cheek... I sure weren't lookin' to go round 'n' round 'bout what constitutes one 
Heck, I'd much rather argue 'bout bias ply vs radial tires 
*


----------



## 1project2many (Dec 5, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Oh man 1project2many, the whole being a "professional" beer drinker thing was tongue-in-cheek... I sure weren't lookin' to go round 'n' round 'bout what constitutes one
> Heck, I'd much rather argue 'bout bias ply vs radial tires
> *



Ohboy... @Whitespider, You're fairly "biased"about that subject. I'm not going to risk getting "belted" in a public forum.



> Maybe it's just me but the house is far more comfortable when there is a fire going in the wood stove. It's something deeper than the heat that I can't put into words just now. I love ending the day out here in the light of the Christmas tree and the warm glow of the fire as the rest of my family sleeps. No tv, the only sound is the occasional crackling of the fire. After the stresses of the day what kind of $$$ value would you put on this?



That sums it up for me.


----------



## Rickochet (Dec 6, 2014)

I do just because I love to cut wood. Plus my wife loves the warmth of the wood stove. A happy wife is priceless!!!!


----------



## firebrick43 (Dec 6, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Oh man 1project2many, , I'd much rather argue 'bout bias ply vs radial tires
> *



Reminds me Spidey. Wife's car needs new tires. What should I get? Only got 90,000 miles out of the Michelins that were on it. What junk huh!!!


----------



## Whitespider (Dec 6, 2014)

Well, I put radials on my wife's car... it never leaves the road, and she refuses to drive in bad weather.
Ain't no sense givin' her more than she can appreciate 
*


----------



## mn woodcutter (Dec 6, 2014)

Bias ply tires suck unless you are driving off road.


----------



## Overclock (Dec 24, 2014)

Mary Christmas you SOB's. lol


----------



## .404 (May 15, 2015)

Dang it was 80+ degrees today. When is this wood heat going to start paying off again?


----------



## bert the turtle (May 18, 2015)

I'm a physician in my day job so if I price my wood heat on a lost-wages basis I'm losing a fortune 

I price it based on enjoyment of working the wood up and enjoyment of burning it. I'm 47 and hand split all of it, elm and sweet gum included so there is a health/ exercise benefit. My wife like what swinging the maul or sledge does for my body, so that factors in. Best of all is the relaxation and psychological benefits. Calculating that way, I am far ahead.


----------



## svk (May 18, 2015)

bert the turtle said:


> I'm a physician in my day job so if I price my wood heat on a lost-wages basis I'm losing a fortune
> 
> I price it based on enjoyment of working the wood up and enjoyment of burning it. I'm 47 and hand split all of it, elm and sweet gum included so there is a health/ exercise benefit. My wife like what swinging the maul or sledge does for my body, so that factors in. Best of all is the relaxation and psychological benefits. Calculating that way, I am far ahead.


I hear you loud and clear. Love my day job and it pays well but nothing like putting up a couple cords of wood.


----------



## tla100 (May 18, 2015)

Have not read all posts, just first page, but my homeowners did not go up any with a wood stove in the basement.


----------



## olyman (May 19, 2015)

bert the turtle said:


> I'm a physician in my day job so if I price my wood heat on a lost-wages basis I'm losing a fortune
> 
> I price it based on enjoyment of working the wood up and enjoyment of burning it. I'm 47 and hand split all of it, elm and sweet gum included so there is a health/ exercise benefit. My wife like what swinging the maul or sledge does for my body, so that factors in. Best of all is the relaxation and psychological benefits. Calculating that way, I am far ahead.


 bring some of your ........."sized" patients over,,for a bit of training!!!


----------



## ashy larry (May 20, 2015)

Hello guys. I installed a dreaded hotblast this year in my carport because in my area of NC it seems everybody is ditching wood in leiu of natural gas or propane. With my little 950 sqft farm house the hotblast could keep it 100 if I wanted. But really I just enjoy the fire and cutting wood. Ive had no trouble scrounging for wood, although storage has become an issue. You always sleep a little better after a day of working wood.


----------



## pro94lt (May 20, 2015)

Where I live their is no natural gas, only electric heat, which works fine in a newer well insulated home, my home is not new it's old heat was turned on only 3 or 5 times this year and that was only because of 40 degree temperature swings this spring. My home would be miserable without a wood stove. I love having to leave doors open when the highs are below freezing...


----------

