# I'm over it, moving forward



## capetrees (Jun 28, 2009)

I've had it with my groundie. looking for a new one tommorow. 

He continues to take time off, (all I ask is that he work Saturdays), tells me he's going to at the last minute meaning anything I had planned out for weeks prior is now off unless I can do it alone, he thinks I need him more than he needs me and is honestly as ignorant as can be. I try to work with him, bend to his needs more often that I want, actually gave him a raise not to long ago but now he's finally broken me. Since April 1st, he's taken off at least 4 weekends and plans to take off ther next two. This is my busiest part of the season and I pay him quite well for what he does which honestly, isn't much other than lumping brush and logs. He shows no desire to further himself in any direction and continues to transform into a bum. If I can find someone even close to him, he's gone in a heartbeat. I have two weeks before he's going to be at work again so that gives me some time to set him free.


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## tree MDS (Jun 28, 2009)

"All I ask is that he work saturdays".... come on dude! you really expect sympathy here for your partime bread taking away from the rest of us gig??
Get real or go home! This bs with you and your weekend guy aint buying no sympathy here buddy! 

Want some advice?? GET OUT!! let the pros who are more commited handle this tree thing! That way you can save on saws and belt loops for the old stoned washed.


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## Blakesmaster (Jun 28, 2009)

Are you asking him to work Saturdays along with a regular 5 day work week? Or do you only work on Saturdays? Either way, I can't blame a man for wanting his weekends free. Not everybody runs 24/7 like the rest of us.


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## tree MDS (Jun 28, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Are you asking him to work Saturdays along with a regular 5 day work week? Or do you only work on Saturdays? Either way, I can't blame a man for wanting his weekends free. Not everybody runs 24/7 like the rest of us.



Oh no, he's a partimer through and through, still claims freeclimbing is quicker than rope and saddle. 20 yrs climbing baby! just bought a saddle last year, lol.


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## outofmytree (Jun 28, 2009)

No law says you gotta be full time at anything.

Hiring ppl can be tough. I bet you can find a replacement easily enough and if it is just Saturday work rather than 6 days a week it should be easier.


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## Blakesmaster (Jun 28, 2009)

*Gotcha.*

I'm still a part timer too, though. At least as far as my own biz goes. So I can't hold that against him. As far as weekend help goes...ha ha ha...good luck. I pay my helpers well but I only offer them work from time to time. Who am I to get indignant if they got something else going? I'm not their bread and butter...just their pocket change. If I can't commit to them, why should they commit to me?


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## mckeetree (Jun 28, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> "All I ask is that he work saturdays".... come on dude! you really expect sympathy here for your partime bread taking away from the rest of us gig??
> Get real or go home! This bs with you and your weekend guy aint buying no sympathy here buddy!
> 
> Want some advice?? GET OUT!! let the pros who are more commited handle this tree thing! That way you can save on saws and belt loops for the old stoned washed.



Lord O' Misery, not a another Saturday only tree guy.


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## tomtrees58 (Jun 28, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Oh no, he's a part time through and through, still claims free climbing is quicker than rope and saddle. 20 yrs climbing baby! just bought a saddle last year, lol.



got you beat 36 years tom trees


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## mckeetree (Jun 28, 2009)

tomtrees58 said:


> got you beat 36 years tom trees





You are not free climbing are you Tom?


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## treeman82 (Jun 28, 2009)

I too need to get rid of my groundie and find somebody new. My problem however is that I don't do 5 or 6 days a week 52 weeks a year, or even close to it. Plus my work can vary from day to day... don't need a guy for stump grinding, or spraying, and when I cut the few lawns that I have I don't need a second body. I do however pay pretty well, I've been giving my guy $200 per day, and he's pretty darn good on some stuff, but he's been beating on my equipment lately, and only wants to work for short periods of time, and no hard labor... just pole clip work and that's all.


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## cjnspecial (Jun 28, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> Lord O' Misery, not a another Saturday only tree guy.



C'mon guys, go easy on him. For all we know this could a sideline to a more profitable business. If he's being safe, doing good work and making an honest living while not breaking any laws, that's more than a lot of people can claim these days. By the looks of his equipment in his sig, he's probably into it the tree biz more then most weekend warriors.


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## Bigus Termitius (Jun 28, 2009)

I solved that problem.

If all you *need* is someone to stack brush and logs get a temp.

I found a sweet temp agency. When I break it open on my own I'll run the best guys during the week and request someone else for weekends. Someone goes down, cops a tude, or what not, I keep moving.

I slow down...I cut em loose...not my problem.

I can even break it up into two different shifts on long days.

Eventually, I'll get full time guys, but if they want the weekend off...no problem.

If I need an extra guy...no problem.

So far it has worked out great.


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## fishercat (Jun 29, 2009)

*he says he uses Stihl chainsaws.*



cjnspecial said:


> C'mon guys, go easy on him. For all we know this could a sideline to a more profitable business. If he's being safe, doing good work and making an honest living while not breaking any laws, that's more than a lot of people can claim these days. By the looks of his equipment in his sig, he's probably into it the tree biz more then most weekend warriors.



the sign of a real tree guy is Husky saws.if you don't have Husky saws,your just playin' with the wood.:greenchainsaw:


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## capetrees (Jun 29, 2009)

I'll answer a few questions and comments.

Yes, I ask him to work Saturdays only yet I go dawn to dusk 7 days a week at a number of different jobs, tree work being one of them. No the tree work isn't stable enough for anyone in the area to commit to doing it full time only so that's why its part time. Give me the work full time and Ill outlast any of you, no doubt about it. 

No, he doesn't work a full week. He decides if wants to or not if its raining, cold, windy, if he's hung over, if he needs to clean his house, if he needs to change his oil, etc. Like I said, I try to work around what he does but ask that he be there on Saturday or even let me know in advance of not being there so I can schedule accordingly. Saturdays I dedicate to tree work. The rest of the week he can do what he wants and I continue to do other work, some tree related, because I can do most of it alone and don't want to wear out my welcome in terms of asking him to help. 

We don't have temp agencies around here. For that matter, I've been putting up with him for so long because there really aren't that many people in the area that are capable of doing this type of work nor want to work. Even at $200 per day for handing me ropes and filling the fuel tanks with occasional brush lugging, it's hard to find someone. How much do I need to pay someone to go to work?

To all the guys that have their weekends off, how many of you own the business? There's no such thing as weekends off if you own the business, especially if you don't have good help.

And don't worry treemds, so long as you can do your job, I won't be taking anything from you. You're FARRRR to good for me. :monkey:


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## Nailsbeats (Jun 29, 2009)

Good help is hard to find. A good man will work because it's his duty, no matter the pay scale. Finding them, well that's another story.


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## Treetom (Jun 29, 2009)

should be easy to replace. upgrading will be the hard part.


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## TDunk (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm just a part timer too, nothing wrong with that. Just in our small town there are 4 part time tree "co's". The area isn't big enough to support a full time co. in my opinion. 

In this economy there are alot of people looking for part time work on the weekends to make some extra cash.


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## capetrees (Jun 29, 2009)

That's all I'm looking for right now. I'm in a position where in the next couple years I'll have to maybe do this more toward a fuill time job in that another guy that I work with as a sub to might be retiring and I'll have to make a decision on where to go with my future. I'd want to bring a helper with me toward a more full time position but where are they??? And as far as upgrading, all I want is equal. The guy that's here now has done nothing in the past few years to upgrade himself. No furthering his education, no new licenses, no equipment, no nothing, just the same old lumper day in and day out. The one good thing about him is he's strong as an ox but maybe its time to buy that mini skid with the grapple to offset his abilitys. Might be cheaper than $800/month that I'm giving him.


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## fishercat (Jun 29, 2009)

*with Obamalamdingdong in office........................*



capetrees said:


> I'll answer a few questions and comments.
> 
> Yes, I ask him to work Saturdays only yet I go dawn to dusk 7 days a week at a number of different jobs, tree work being one of them. No the tree work isn't stable enough for anyone in the area to commit to doing it full time only so that's why its part time. Give me the work full time and Ill outlast any of you, no doubt about it.
> 
> ...



you won't be able to pay anyone enough to work.


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## TackleTree (Jun 29, 2009)

Nothing wrong with doing trees part time. Doesn't make you any less of a hard worker or a tree guy. Not sure what the big deal is. It is a passion, do it when you can. I love it! Who ever has a problem with that can come to Arkansas for an indepth discussion about it.


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## mckeetree (Jun 29, 2009)

TackleTree said:


> Nothing wrong with doing trees part time. Doesn't make you any less of a hard worker or a tree guy. Not sure what the big deal is. It is a passion, do it when you can. I love it! Who ever has a problem with that can come to Arkansas for an indepth discussion about it.



Matter of opinion.


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## capetrees (Jun 29, 2009)

The comments about doing trees part time doesn't bother me. I just find it strange that some think of it as lesser than they are. How many in here started their very own tree business right out of the door? Just walked into the bank, asked for $200k to start a business with no experience so they can buy a chipper, a truck and loader, some saws, hire a few guys and have enough to buy a building to house it all in. Or did those that are offended by part timers get their businesses handed down to them from daddy? I'll bet mostly everyone in business today started as a part timer and then grew to something bigger once they were able to do it full time.


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## Rftreeman (Jun 30, 2009)

capetrees said:


> To all the guys that have their weekends off, how many of you own the business? There's no such thing as weekends off if you own the business, especially if you don't have good help.



I own it and haven't worked a Saturday since this....


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## capetrees (Jun 30, 2009)

I assume that means you have good help? That's what I'm lacking.


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## dingeryote (Jun 30, 2009)

capetrees said:


> I assume that means you have good help? That's what I'm lacking.



Cape,

Call the local VA. There's lotsa smart, strong, and willing to work hard, guys that are getting out and coming home to a bleak job market for grunts.

Also call your local American legion and yak with someone on the board.

Odds are they have a couple good Soldiers and Marines already in mind that are wanting to work, and are easy to train.

800 bucks a month for saturdays....
You would have guys killing each other for that here.



Good luck!
Dingeryote


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## Metals406 (Jun 30, 2009)

capetrees said:


> I assume that means you have good help? That's what I'm lacking.



$800.00 a month for 4 days work?.. I'd be all over that like flies on poo.


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## capetrees (Jun 30, 2009)

Exactly, but where I live, some people think thats chump change! And as far as the VA or the legion, we don't have them here to the point that there are young guys to do the work. Most of the guys iat the VFW are much older fellas. Believe me, I'm trying to thinkl of who or where to look but its tough out here on the "island".


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## asthesun (Jun 30, 2009)

capetrees said:


> I've had it with my groundie. looking for a new one tommorow.
> 
> He continues to take time off, (all I ask is that he work Saturdays), tells me he's going to at the last minute meaning anything I had planned out for weeks prior is now off unless I can do it alone, he thinks I need him more than he needs me and is honestly as ignorant as can be. I try to work with him, bend to his needs more often that I want, actually gave him a raise not to long ago but now he's finally broken me. Since April 1st, he's taken off at least 4 weekends and plans to take off ther next two. This is my busiest part of the season and I pay him quite well for what he does which honestly, isn't much other than lumping brush and logs. He shows no desire to further himself in any direction and continues to transform into a bum. If I can find someone even close to him, he's gone in a heartbeat. I have two weeks before he's going to be at work again so that gives me some time to set him free.



i feel for you. its hard to find good help. i'm going through something similar, all my groundies are slow as molasses after about an hour or work and seem to forget basic rules i have laid down. (when i'm bombing wood next to something, i need it moved after every piece i cut. when the saw is running, dont be undewr the tree, period.) went by my mexican buddie's house the other day but i guess he moved.

dont listen to those holier than thou types that say working weekends is bad, many people will admire your dedication and i'm sure god will understand your need to feed your family.


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## chip's-tree (Jun 30, 2009)

cap, I hired a high school kid (17) to work ground and odd things. I have to watch out for him but it's been well worth the money..


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## arbor pro (Jun 30, 2009)

For those of you who despise us part-timers, I am assuming it is because your business has been affected in a negative way by a part-timer low-balling your bids; thus, taking away work from you.

A few things to consider when making the comments you make:

1) There will always be low-ballers out there and there are just as many full-timers doing it as part-timers. They are typically the guys who are uninsured and paying their helpers under the table; thus, having lower overhead. 

2) A good part-timer who conducts himself professionally, carries insurance and cares about what he does can be a boost to the tree care industry and not the hindrance many of you see us as. Many of us choose to be part-time for various reasons but love the tree care industry; thus, choose it as a secondary source of income. Many of us do the smaller more meticulous pruning and maintenance jobs that some of you full-timers don't want to do.

3) Would you rather see a hard-working family man stop doing tree care on the side as his second source of income and just sit home on the weekend and lose his house because he can't pay his mortgage and beat his wife and yell at his kids? Some of us are hard-working, caring family men who need the second income in order to provide for our families. We work a second job as a choice of values.

Give part-timers a break. It's the unprofessional, untrained, uncaring, lowballing hacks (both part-time and full-time) that you should devote your energy towards. The rest of us are just trying to keep the kids in clean clothes and put food on the table. We don't ask for a handout and we don't ask for your sympathy or support. We just ask that you don't rail on us because, while you work 40 hours a week, we work 60.


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## chip's-tree (Jun 30, 2009)

*part timers*

I have nothing against part timers if they are doing a good job, honest work, not low balling the market and carry enough Ins. to protect the public. most tree companies started out small or part time.


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## capetrees (Jun 30, 2009)

+1+1

The previous two posts are spot on.


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## Blakesmaster (Jun 30, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> We just ask that you don't rail on us because, while you work 40 hours a week, we work 60.



I think we all know that anyone who owns their own business doesn't work just 40 hours a week. I wonder if a lot of the distaste towards part timers stems from skill level. Someone who does this gig 2 or three times as many hours a week is bound to have a bigger head ( and a bit more skill ) than a weekend warrior. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Face it guys, this job is tough and it makes men tough; mentally physically and emotionally. Just think back to the end of your last 14 hour day ( that was yesterday for me ) and the 80 foot of stem you still needed to chunk down and tell me that didn't take all your grit. Guys that do that everyday are bound to look down their nose at the guy who calls himself a tree man 1 day a week. 

As far as the business end of things goes, there is just as many non-legit full-timers as there are weekenders. The only difference is that full-time boys depend on a bid to put food on the table where the rest are usually just looking for beer money.


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## mckeetree (Jun 30, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I think we all know that anyone who owns their own business doesn't work just 40 hours a week. I wonder if a lot of the distaste towards part timers stems from skill level. Someone who does this gig 2 or three times as many hours a week is bound to have a bigger head ( and a bit more skill ) than a weekend warrior. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Face it guys, this job is tough and it makes men tough; mentally physically and emotionally. Just think back to the end of your last 14 hour day ( that was yesterday for me ) and the 80 foot of stem you still needed to chunk down and tell me that didn't take all your grit. Guys that do that everyday are bound to look down their nose at the guy who calls himself a tree man 1 day a week.
> 
> As far as the business end of things goes, there is just as many non-legit full-timers as there are weekenders. The only difference is that full-time boys depend on a bid to put food on the table where the rest are usually just looking for beer money.



I would imagine you are right and good point. There is plenty non-legit full timers.


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## TDunk (Jun 30, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> As far as the business end of things goes, there is just as many non-legit full-timers as there are weekenders. The only difference is that full-time boys depend on a bid to put food on the table where the rest are usually just looking for beer money.



I have to agree with that, well said. My bids are usually with in 10-15 percent of what the full timers bid. Some times more, sometimes less. But alot of it can depend on what each company thinks the job is worth. A Co. with older equipment can/usually operate cheaper than a Co. with all new stuff. EXAMPLE. Co. A bids a job at 6 hrs. start to finish at $150 an hour = $900. Co. B bids the job at 6 hrs. at $150 an hour but since the tree is close to a fence or a shed, they bid $1200 because THEY THINK the job is worth more. Both Co.'s are bidding what they personally think the job is worth.


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## arbor pro (Jul 1, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> The only difference is that full-time boys depend on a bid to put food on the table where the rest are usually just looking for beer money.



Not true in all cases so let's not make general assumptions. I make more money doing tree work part-time than my wife made working full-time at her job. So, my doing tree work evenings and saturdays allows our kids to be brought up by their mom rather than by a daycare.

Everyone does what he does for his own reasons so, to each his own. All that really matters is that, if you're going to do tree care, you should know what you're doing and try to run a legitimate ethical business. You can do that whether you're full-time or part-time. I've done both so no need to try to tell me different. It's the same basic business principles in either scenario.


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## BlackenedTimber (Jul 1, 2009)

Great post. As a former full-timer and now a weekend warrior, I can relate to both side.

Honesty, integrity, and moral value rule the day.


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 1, 2009)

arbor pro said:


> Not true in all cases so let's not make general assumptions. I make more money doing tree work part-time than my wife made working full-time at her job. So, my doing tree work evenings and saturdays allows our kids to be brought up by their mom rather than by a daycare.



That was definitely a general assumption. It's hard to think in a "married with kids" perspective for me sometimes. What I was trying to point out is that doing tree work as your ONLY source of income puts a bit more pressure on the owner to make the bid profitable. Whereas, in your case, your wife could go back to work, you could ask for a raise, etc. A full time tree business owner is basically forced to make the company work or he stands to lose everything. Because I have a back up job ( albeit still tree work, just not my own ) it matters less to me if my equipment goes unused for a week or two. For a full time operator that's a serious problem.


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## pdqdl (Jul 6, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Good help is hard to find. A good man will work because it's his duty, no matter the pay scale. Finding them, well that's another story.



YES! Over the years I have discovered that an excellent worker is just that; regardless of the pay. If you don't pay them enough, they will move on, but they will be the best they can be until they walk out the door. The secret is to find them and keep them before someone else does.

Lazy or useless workers are just the opposite: paying them more doesn't get a harder, smarter, or faster worker. It just gets you less lip service while you are gritting your teeth at the wages you are throwing away.


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## fishercat (Jul 6, 2009)

*i'm not full time because there isn't enough work.*



Blakesmaster said:


> I think we all know that anyone who owns their own business doesn't work just 40 hours a week. I wonder if a lot of the distaste towards part timers stems from skill level. Someone who does this gig 2 or three times as many hours a week is bound to have a bigger head ( and a bit more skill ) than a weekend warrior. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Face it guys, this job is tough and it makes men tough; mentally physically and emotionally. Just think back to the end of your last 14 hour day ( that was yesterday for me ) and the 80 foot of stem you still needed to chunk down and tell me that didn't take all your grit. Guys that do that everyday are bound to look down their nose at the guy who calls himself a tree man 1 day a week.
> 
> As far as the business end of things goes, there is just as many non-legit full-timers as there are weekenders. The only difference is that full-time boys depend on a bid to put food on the table where the rest are usually just looking for beer money.



mainly because there are too many tree companies around here.i rarely drink and what little i do is given to me for free so i don't need beer money.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 6, 2009)

capetrees said:


> To all the guys that have their weekends off, how many of you own the business? There's no such thing as weekends off if you own the business, especially if you don't have good help.
> 
> :monkey:



I have all of my weekends off BECAUSE I own the business. I have been self-employed since I was a kid precisely because I enjoy setting my own schedule. If I wanted to jump through hoops for others, I'd work for them.


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 6, 2009)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I have all of my weekends off BECAUSE I own the business. I have been self-employed since I was a kid precisely because I enjoy setting my own schedule. If I wanted to jump through hoops for others, I'd work for them.



Really? So if someone calls you Saturday morning with a tree on their house, you'll tell them to wait until Monday, you're too busy relaxin'? If that's your thing, do it. I personally like money too much.


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## oldirty (Jul 6, 2009)

so this site is full of halftimers, huh? guys who have fulltime gigs but leach off the tree on the side?..........


will the real treemen please stand up? i need a headcount. the guys who do it fulltime? the ones in the grind daily? i just put in 11hours. where you at?


halftimers with problems.......lol.


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 6, 2009)

oldirty said:


> will the real treemen please stand up?



You shouldn't ask us real boys to stand up, we've been climbing all day.


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## oldirty (Jul 6, 2009)

tip of the cap will do, sir.


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## John464 (Jul 6, 2009)

oldirty said:


> so this site is full of halftimers, huh? guys who have fulltime gigs but leach off the tree on the side?..........
> 
> 
> will the real treemen please stand up? i need a headcount. the guys who do it fulltime? the ones in the grind daily? i just put in 11hours. where you at?



i think we need a pole bro. I get that feeling too. I heard most people took off Friday and Monday for the holiday weekend. I worked both days. 5-6 days a week. no landscaping, no handyman odd jobs, no grass cutting, JUST TREES all day, all week.


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## oldirty (Jul 6, 2009)

John464 said:


> JUST TREES all day, all week.



thats the chit i'm talking about man. bang.

2 log truck worth of tree on the move today brother. real tall pine and some phatty oak and maple.

running through that mix! 

start that poll about who is who on this site, i'd love to see the answer.


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 6, 2009)

John464 said:


> i think we need a pole bro. I get that feeling too. I heard most people took off Friday and Monday for the holiday weekend. I worked both days. 5-6 days a week. no landscaping, no handyman odd jobs, no grass cutting, JUST TREES all day, all week.



I don't have anything against part timers but I would also like to see who puts in the serious hours doing tree work. Seeing that I work 40 for another company and at least 20 for myself a week I wonder if I spend more time aloft than most. All I know is I took 1 day off this week to go see an airshow with the gf and slept through F18's blasting their afterburners 100 feet from me.


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## Metals406 (Jul 6, 2009)

All this back and forth about full and part time is hilarious! If the guy doing the work is good, does it right, is honest, and works his butt off, who gives a rip? Full time, part time... You guys should be ripping on illegals and hacks, not on "How many hours a week" somebody works.

My humble 2¢


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## capetrees (Jul 6, 2009)

I could post my stats in here but the fact is nobody ever believes what I do, whether its the hours I work or the way I climb or the money I make. Part time or not, I'm getting it done and have no problem finding work whether in the trees or not. Tree work isn't that plentiful where I am so it's part time. The phone doesn't stop though for tree work and it keeps the weekends full while I make the rest of my money somewhere else the rest of the week. 

BTW, it's 8:30 and I just stepped in the door since leaving this morning at 7:30. And thats 6 days a week, the seventh the same time but working around my own place.


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 6, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> All this back and forth about full and part time is hilarious! If the guy doing the work is good, does it right, is honest, and works his butt off, who gives a rip? Full time, part time... You guys should be ripping on illegals and hacks, not on "How many hours a week" somebody works.
> 
> My humble 2¢



I didn't put out oldirty quantity today but I did 2 full chip trucks ( 20 yards each ) and one triaxle of wood, plus half the day was "no-haul". Like I said I have no prob with part timers but moving that amount of material in a day sure gives a man a serious sense of pride. When you do that every day...moreso.


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## Metals406 (Jul 6, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I didn't put out oldirty quantity today but I did 2 full chip trucks ( 20 yards each ) and one triaxle of wood, plus half the day was "no-haul". Like I said I have no prob with part timers but moving that amount of material in a day sure gives a man a serious sense of pride. When you do that every day...moreso.



Exactly... I can do welding, or carpentry, or blacksmithing on the weekend, and watch my boys during the week... Does that mean I'm not good at any of it? Not bloody likely.

Quality, not quantity boys.


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## treeslayer (Jul 6, 2009)

oldirty said:


> thats the chit i'm talking about man. bang.
> 
> 2 log truck worth of tree on the move today brother. real tall pine and some phatty oak and maple.
> 
> ...



and how many did you roll justin? ?:hmm3grin2orange:


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## oldirty (Jul 6, 2009)

lol. none!


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## fishercat (Jul 6, 2009)

*i'd work 7 days a week.*



oldirty said:


> so this site is full of halftimers, huh? guys who have fulltime gigs but leach off the tree on the side?..........
> 
> 
> will the real treemen please stand up? i need a headcount. the guys who do it fulltime? the ones in the grind daily? i just put in 11hours. where you at?
> ...



sun up to sun down if the work was there.i love the work and wouldn't want to do anything else.maybe when we get rid of Obamalamadingdong things will get back to the way they were.


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## Scottscape (Jul 6, 2009)

I've had my fair share of climbers come climb for me as after awhile they think I need them till I let them be my groundie then they aren't as arrogant but some it just doesn't matter they move from company to company atleast thats the way it seems around here. Haven't had that problem with groundies but we all know a good groundie is almost just as a good and a good climber


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## prentice110 (Jul 7, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Oh no, he's a partimer through and through, still claims freeclimbing is quicker than rope and saddle. 20 yrs climbing baby! just bought a saddle last year, lol.



Did anyone else hear about the guy who was free climbing and cut himself with the saw and couldnt climb down because of the cut and bleed to death in the tree? I think it was in a TCI mag a few years back.........................and by the way, second generation pure bred here, and nothing was "givin" to me cept' a few old broke saws. 2 years ago I put in 9 weeks in the summer heat at 80 hours on the job, not countin doin estimates or sharpenin saws at 3 in the morn or fixin all the crap that groundie 1,2,or3 broke and when I looked at the numbers when I was done I figured I wouldve lost less money if I sat at home on the couch watchin T.V. with a beer in hand. So I got rid of everybody and work as little as possible now. Not hard considering that theres no work what so ever. NOONE by me is movin. But hey,Im happy. Kind of. Not really. Will somebody please hit me in the head with a tack hammer?


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## tree MDS (Jul 7, 2009)

oldirty said:


> so this site is full of halftimers, huh? guys who have fulltime gigs but leach off the tree on the side?..........
> 
> 
> will the real treemen please stand up? i need a headcount. the guys who do it fulltime? the ones in the grind daily? i just put in 11hours. where you at?
> ...



This part: "leach off the tree on the side", thats some good stuff right there :hmm3grin2orange:

I'm losing alot of this week due to bucket truck tranny problems...that and the economy has me working less this year admittedly. That dont make me a partimer does it big guy?

Thankfully things are picking up pretty good now though. Economy definately makes "the hate", as I call it, kick up a notch - everybody's happy when theres alot of work, things get slow and the treeguys get to hating, always been like that.


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## arbor pro (Jul 7, 2009)

In my area, it's the full-timers who are the problem...too many untrained, unemployed yokals going into tree cutting full-time when there's not enough work to support a family of co-owners all trying to make a living off of one tree company.

I'd like to be full-time but I'm wise enough to realize that, in my local ecomony, the best economic position for me is to hold onto my full-time job and to do tree work on the side. If the other guys who are trying to start up in this weak economy had any brains, they'd be part-time too. If the untrained full-timers in my area had any brains, they'd find another line of work rather than give lowball prices and further drive the industry into the ground. Nobody wins when unskilled lowballers start throwing out rediculously low prices just to keep busy. They're cutting their own throats by creating a market that is accustomed to getting work done for practically nothing.

Getting rid of us part-timers who actually know how to properly care for trees isn't going to better the situation. My prices for removals are twice or three times that of the full-timers. I only get removal work from customers who want someone who knows what he is doing. Most of my work comes from pruning that the local full-timers know nothing about and don't want to do.

The situation may be different in other markets but, that's how it is in my area. Just too many untrained bafoons trying to work in the tree care market and customers becoming accustomed to hiring baffoons rather than professionals.

As it was said previously, your energy shouldn't be wasted worrying about whether someone works 20 hours a week or 40 or 60 but, rather, on whether they are skilled and ethical enough to be operating within the tree care industry. Get rid of the unskilled, unethical bafoons - both part-time and full-time, and this industry will be better off as a whole. JMO...


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 7, 2009)

A lot of treework done is just glorified yard work. You don't need a crane and huge equipment for that, therefor this "Industry" will never be taken seriously as long as it's all rolled into one. The full spectrum is just too large and diverse.

Am I right here? Just a thought.


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## arbor pro (Jul 7, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> A lot of treework done is just glorified yard work. You don't need a crane and huge equipment for that, therefor this "Industry" will never be taken seriously as long as it's all rolled into one. The full spectrum is just too large and diverse.
> 
> Am I right here? Just a thought.



For that matter, you can say the same about landscaping or lawn care along with numerous other 'industries' that crisscross conventional industry work boundaries. More and more landscapers and lawn care companies are doing what arborists would classify as 'tree care'. In reverse, more and more tree care companies are doing what landscape architects would classify as landscaping or lawn care. 

It's all the green industry. Perhaps, that's the correct term to use for the industry in which we work.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jul 7, 2009)

That or "woody industry" LOL

Name on the side of a truck I saw over the weekend

Weekend Woody

Must go over great with the ladies LOL!


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## TackleTree (Jul 8, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> Matter of opinion.



Agree to disagree. I am still going to continue doing what I love to do when I can. Dallas is only a few hours away, want to have a discussion? LOL


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## Greenstar (Jul 14, 2009)

Cape, some guy made a good point... Every area has a local highschool. Hang out outside the highschool a few days as school gets out and talk to some of the bigger kids! I've thought of that...recruiting from the local highschool. They listen well, and you can cultivate them.

But what I was going to say is craigslist man! Craigslist is a goldmine for.... anything almost. Post an ad under the jobs section. You CAN and WILL find someone. Guaranteed. Its worth the $25. Massachusetts is not a big place. Where do you live? Out on the Cape?!

greenstar-boston


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## Toddppm (Jul 14, 2009)

Craigslist is great if you have alot of time to waste talking to and emailing every half-wit that can get on the internet but not show up for an appointment or first day of work. 


John464, Aren't you the owner of the company and work with your crews too? How the hell do you manage to do enough estimates and get enough jobs while doing that to keep a workload rolling? FT salesman?


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## treeslayer (Jul 14, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Cape, some guy made a good point... Every area has a local highschool. Hang out outside the highschool a few days as school gets out and talk to some of the bigger kids! I've thought of that...recruiting from the local highschool. They listen well, and you can cultivate them.
> greenstar-boston



Jesus, what country are you in? approach kids outside a school? good way to meet the local police. 
you need to do it the smart way, call the football coach, and let him tell his athletes, instead of trying to hire the pothead skateboarders who walk to school.

pay em good, work the heck out of em, and feed em, too. I've done that for years, when busy, they come out of the woodwork for a workout with pay.


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## Metals406 (Jul 14, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> Jesus, what country are you in? approach kids outside a school? good way to meet the local police.
> you need to do it the smart way, call the football coach, and let him tell his athletes, instead of trying to hire the pothead skateboarders who walk to school.
> 
> pay em good, work the heck out of em, and feed em, too. I've done that for years, when busy, they come out of the woodwork for a workout with pay.



:agree2:
Good advice!


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## Greenstar (Jul 14, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> Jesus, what country are you in? approach kids outside a school? good way to meet the local police.
> you need to do it the smart way, call the football coach, and let him tell his athletes, instead of trying to hire the pothead skateboarders who walk to school.
> 
> pay em good, work the heck out of em, and feed em, too. I've done that for years, when busy, they come out of the woodwork for a workout with pay.



Yeah ok "Tree Slayer!" What kind of motivated disciplined football player is gonna work for the average small tree co dragging brush and humping wood around!! 

Its a free country buddy. Maybe you'd be better with the army bound, fottball playin jock, or whatever...
But the skateboarder type, directionless, still searching kind of young man is more my speed. 
There's nothing against the law about that either.


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## DK_stihl (Jul 14, 2009)

*Where does this leave me?*

I work for a tree care company 40+ hrs a week, and I ALSO do weekend/side jobs. However, unlike most of the people I work with during the week, my side work is not solicited on the job. All my "side work" comes from people that I know personally, and it is all word of mouth. I work many weekends and I take no work from the company that I work for, as they are pretty pricey. The way I figure it is a good workout, and I also am getting paid to hone my climbing skills. My prices are very reasonable so I figure it keeps some hack from getting their hands on my customer's trees. Just my 2 cents. Feel free to comment.


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 14, 2009)

DK_stihl said:


> I work for a tree care company 40+ hrs a week, and I ALSO do weekend/side jobs. However, unlike most of the people I work with during the week, my side work is not solicited on the job. All my "side work" comes from people that I know personally, and it is all word of mouth. I work many weekends and I take no work from the company that I work for, as they are pretty pricey. The way I figure it is a good workout, and I also am getting paid to hone my climbing skills. My prices are very reasonable so I figure it keeps some hack from getting their hands on my customer's trees. Just my 2 cents. Feel free to comment.



You're in the same place as me, DK. I think that makes us fulltime plus. Ha! Take that, OD.  Nothing wrong if your leads are honest, you're insured, and you do good work. I actually advertise though and I must say it gets tricky when you're bidding against your boss. We've basically come to the conclusion that if people are getting bids from both our companies, they're probably getting bids from everyone in town looking for the best price and neither of us will ever be that...EVER. This site is full of too many full timers. Where's my fulltime plus boys at?


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## DK_stihl (Jul 14, 2009)

*Insurance*

Speaking of insurance, how much does your GL cost you per year if you don't mine me asking? You can PM me the answer if that works for you. Thanks.


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## tree MDS (Jul 14, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Cape, some guy made a good point... Every area has a local highschool. Hang out outside the highschool a few days as school gets out and talk to some of the bigger kids! I've thought of that...recruiting from the local highschool. They listen well, and you can cultivate them.
> 
> But what I was going to say is craigslist man! Craigslist is a goldmine for.... anything almost. Post an ad under the jobs section. You CAN and WILL find someone. Guaranteed. Its worth the $25. Massachusetts is not a big place. Where do you live? Out on the Cape?!
> 
> greenstar-boston



Yeah, there ya go cape: hang out outside the local high school, just remember to bring some candy. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## southsoundtree (Jul 14, 2009)

Bigus Termitius said:


> I solved that problem.
> 
> If all you *need* is someone to stack brush and logs get a temp.
> 
> ...



What do you have to pay the temp. service per hour?
Any tips on dealing with the temp. service?


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## oldirty (Jul 14, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Yeah ok "Tree Slayer!" What kind of motivated disciplined football player is gonna work for the average small tree co dragging brush and humping wood around!!
> 
> Its a free country buddy. Maybe you'd be better with the army bound, fottball playin jock, or whatever...
> But the skateboarder type, directionless, still searching kind of young man is more my speed.
> There's nothing against the law about that either.




hahaha. figured that about you. lol. bet you are as cute as your sister too! your not into the emo crowd are you ben? you kidding right, you'd want a tight pant wearing pencil neck hump'n wood for you rather than a dirty nasty o-lineman or the likes?




DK_stihl said:


> I work for a tree care company 40+ hrs a week, and I ALSO do weekend/side jobs. However, unlike most of the people I work with during the week, my side work is not solicited on the job. All my "side work" comes from people that I know personally, and it is all word of mouth. I work many weekends and I take no work from the company that I work for, as they are pretty pricey. The way I figure it is a good workout, and I also am getting paid to hone my climbing skills. My prices are very reasonable so I figure it keeps some hack from getting their hands on my customer's trees. Just my 2 cents. Feel free to comment.




treespect




Blakesmaster said:


> You're in the same place as me, DK. I think that makes us fulltime plus. Ha! Take that, OD.  Nothing wrong if your leads are honest, you're insured, and you do good work. I actually advertise though and I must say it gets tricky when you're bidding against your boss. We've basically come to the conclusion that if people are getting bids from both our companies, they're probably getting bids from everyone in town looking for the best price and neither of us will ever be that...EVER. This site is full of too many full timers. Where's my fulltime plus boys at?



treespect


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## tree MDS (Jul 14, 2009)

Yep, "treespect" to you two also. yer not the type I was reffering to

Yo oldirty, the noodle thing, I dont get that?? lol

Anyways, we are supposed to be talking about wood boring weevils and the like here boys - or in this case hackers with no dedication to the profession taking good work out of the local tree economy.

No problem with fulltime treeguys going out and getting some extra bucks working with some friends weeekends some and whatnot. Thats treework, always been like that. Its joey fuel delirvery/wedding party planner/lawn dork/ knows a climber who is blaah, blaah, blaah. thats more what I was reffering to.


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## oldirty (Jul 14, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Yo oldirty, the noodle thing, I dont get that?? lol



you know when you rip a log in half and the sawdust comes out all spaghetti like?


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 14, 2009)

oldirty said:


> you know when you rip a log in half and the sawdust comes out all spaghetti like?



What, you don't piss that, MDS? All of the sudden I wonder 'bout you...


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## tree MDS (Jul 14, 2009)

oldirty said:


> you know when you rip a log in half and the sawdust comes out all spaghetti like?



Nah, mine's more of a fine dust cuz my saw is sharper.


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 14, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Nah, mine's more of a fine dust cuz my saw is sharper.



Better check your rakers MDS.:greenchainsaw:


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## treemandan (Jul 14, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Nah, mine's more of a fine dust cuz my saw is sharper.



I was going to ask the same thing but I was kinda scared to knowing OD. With the bar ripping along the grain ( not cutting the end grain) you make noddles. I think I forgot what that was called. I think you can only noddle a log that is no bigger than the bar.


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## tree MDS (Jul 14, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Better check your rakers MDS.:greenchainsaw:



I like to keep em nice and high Nels. you know my style!


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## TreEmergencyB (Jul 14, 2009)

i was told its a bad idea to bury your bar when "noodlin" wood for what reason i do not know but i was told not to so i dont 

i usally trust the old and wise.....


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## tree MDS (Jul 14, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I was going to ask the same thing but I was kinda scared to knowing OD. With the bar ripping along the grain ( not cutting the end grain) you make noddles. I think I forgot what that was called. I think you can only noddle a log that is no bigger than the bar.



Dont be scared of oldirty dano, other than the annoying boston accent, he's a good dude. cant figure that accent though... lol


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## oldirty (Jul 14, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I think you can only noddle a log that is no bigger than the bar.



wood can be as long as it wants to be. its one way i check my sharpening if i am by the chitty log pile.


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## Greenstar (Jul 14, 2009)

oldirty said:


> hahaha. figured that about you. lol. bet you are as cute as your sister too! your not into the emo crowd are you ben? you kidding right, you'd want a tight pant wearing pencil neck hump'n wood for you rather than a dirty nasty o-lineman or the likes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Haha, howd you guess...
No not necessarily. If they cant hang I'll run em into the ground, then kick their as$es!!  Lol..
I cant deal with wusses.. I'll push them around. And then they crumble. I hold their pay overnight so they come back when I need them! 
No, I cant deal with toothless idiots who cant listen to simple team strategies, discuss tree care or a plan of attack, have a discussion with them, someone who cant come correct and give a compliment, or give respect when respect is due, or have respect for themselves or others, however, of course I dont mind if they're rough around the edges... Most of us are, aren't we 

But, I have thought about cultivating some young local, from the right family background, into becoming an apprentice. I think location really does help. Someone right from nearby. Especially because sometimes I just like to do short days. Also, I like to encourage my guys to do other things. They tend to manage time more efficiently.

Anyway, for now I got a really nice older fella. He's actually a little bit soft, but great to hang and talk with. He also genuinely likes being out there, talking about trees, really into nature, and talking with customers.. We get a lot of extra work because of him, so for now I'm sticking with him. He's got a friggin masters degree and he's working with me... don't ask me why! I think hes lonely dude, but thats ok... AGain we talk about some cool things on the job, and sometiems thats important (and also beats the highschool kid) when you're just a two man crew and you're spending all day with someone. They're like your partner..
ANyway, we hire a third laborer when needed. They can be found anytime no problem. We use this Tibetan shirpa nowdays!  Kid is 20, and runs circles around everyone. About 5'3" hahah serious...

Anyway, in the Bean, as you know, there are plenty of guys to be found always down in Somerville, at the park, or in Allston, at Dunkins.
Otherwise, I have a very specific posting used on craigslist, and its very easy to weed out the duds right away. I have a list of guys. JUST NOT A POTENTIAL GOOD CLIMBER YET! THATS WHAT I'M REALLY LOOKING FOR! AN UP AND COMING STAR CLIMBER I CAN TRAIN!

Good luck guys!


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## oldirty (Jul 14, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Dont be scared of oldirty dano, other than the annoying boston accent, he's a good dude. cant figure that accent though... lol



easy bud. try not to tell anyone else though. lol


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## GilaShot (Jul 22, 2009)

check pm


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