# Newbie Forestry Logging Building Questions



## customcutter (Nov 7, 2017)

Hey guys, recently retired a few months ago, 63 now and wanted to build a log home since I was about 30. We presently live on 1/4 acre 2100 sq ft home and pay about $2500 yr in property taxes, and have to pull a permit to put up a shed or a fence.

My in-laws live in Alabama on 700 acres, bigger home, more buildings, structures, etc and pay $700/yr in taxes and live in an un-restricted county.

I'm thinking of buying 75-100 acres wooded or partially wooded (wooded is cheaper). Pouring a 30x50 or 40x50 slab and using a portable bandsaw mill to build a shop (temporary home), while I build my 2-3000 sq ft log home.

Portable Sawmills I'm looking at either a used WoodMizer LT40 or 50 if the price is right or a Cooks HD 3238. I really like some of the features on the Cooks and think it's a better value just looking at video's. (haven't seen one yet)

Most of the re-planted trees in Ga and Al are long leaf pine, a fast growing variety. Is this suitable for lumber for the shop framing and siding or are they only used for pulp wood? I know in north Ga last week we saw some nice spruce type trees, but we will probably be down near Dothan-Eufala area. I think these trees could be harvested and sawn wet with out issues, or would warping be a problem?

I'm also planning on using the same trees for logs in the cabin. My plan was to "ring" the trees when we get the property, let them die and start drying out, and harvest them 6months or a year later. They will be lighter and easier to handle and peel. I plan on using 12-16" log about 20' long. I've heard that harvesting dead or diseased trees is also an option. Any ideas on cost of contracting someone to do that? I know the wood isn't worth much commercially supposedly???

Thoughts, comments, opinions are welcome. Trying to form a plan.
thanks in advance,
Ken


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## mesupra (Nov 7, 2017)

There are many portable type mill's that will serve your purpose. Make sure you can saw out to around 18- 20'


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## customcutter (Nov 7, 2017)

Yes, both the WM and Cooks will cut to 21'. 

Should have mentioned I also have 3 herniated disc in my lower back so hydraulics is a must. No log lifting or rolling for me. 

thanks, Ken


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## mesupra (Nov 7, 2017)

Yea a Turner would be great on our mill. Esp when cutting 30" plus wood. We have a Hudson farm boss 36


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## hseII (Nov 7, 2017)

How are you planning on handling Big wood?

30” is about max for a LT-40, & quite frankly, I wouldn’t want to handle much larger for a bandsaw Mill.

Do they make bigger ones?
Sure they do, but all the other equipment must be bigger to accommodate the big wood. 

I’d recommend sticking with an LT-40 Hydraulic unless you’ve got additional money to burn. 

As far as Southern Yellow Pine,






The logs above became the pictures I sent you in the PM.









P.S.,
White Beard is my Dad.


Yes I know I just said go with a smaller mill due to the additional Equipment needs of a larger mill, then posted a picture of a lull.

It’s an option, but it’s like everything else, additional $. 

I doubt you’ll find a used LT-50, but all things are possible. 

Buy your vertical sections unless you are re-sawing long ago sawn beams: the wall paneling or sheet rock will fall off the walls if you try to saw your own studs. 

It’s just difficult to keep the studs straight enough. 

Everything else, Just Saw It. 

My grandfather’s house was built 60 years ago by the above method, albeit off a circle saw mill, or Pecker Mill with Green Lumber & purchased Studs. 

When we remodeled his house in the early 2000s, everybody wanted to step up a hammer Size cause the old lumber was a bit solid & tight compared to what we were accustomed to working with. Think 2 1/2”x 12” floor joist. 

But, it was & still is straight as the day it was nailed in.

You need a bigger saw.

I suggest a MS461 with a 28” bar. Start watching the trader.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 7, 2017)

My findings in the milling and warped boards ,mostly come from milling bent logs like the one on the right ,or offset hearts like the one on the left ,if can get heart close to the center will have more stable boards .


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## hseII (Nov 7, 2017)

Trx250r180 said:


> My findings in the milling and warped boards ,mostly come from milling bent logs like the one on the right ,or offset hearts like the one on the left ,if can get heart close to the center will have more stable boards .



This is true, but it’s difficult to mill the quantity of boards needed for wall studs due to needing perfectly straight trees. 

Joist & siding seem to just do better.


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## customcutter (Nov 7, 2017)

Hey Heath, the shop/temp home I hope to only live in for 6months -1 year. I was planning on slab foundation, PT pine on that and then sawn framing from there with vertical siding and 1x2" over the cracks. Probably not even lining the interior walls, except maybe the bathroom/kitchen area. Metal roofing. Just something to eat/sleep in when we are there working on the new log home.

I'm hoping to find property with trees that I can cut 20' sections out of that are 12-16" in diameter to use for the log home. Yes that's going to be heavy, I'm hoping to borrow a Massey Ferguson tractor that my In-laws have that has a front set of forks on it. I've also considered purchasing some type of equipment but not sure what yet. I was thinking the other night that a back-hoe would be perfect. Stacked logs on one side, load them on the saw, cut the cants, unload and stack on the opposite side. But that's probably a little pricey? I'd like to have something that could be used to lift and place the logs on the walls also. I've been thinking about ways to load the logs onto the trailer with cables and a 4 wheeler. Off loading is another problem??? Also wondering what I'm going to do with all of the scraps???? Had one fellow tell me you're not in the saw business your in the trucking business.... I don't think I want to do this commercially, but who knows....

As far as saws I've got a 570 on the bench, that I got for $230. It's a little low on compression, and when I pulled the muffler I could see the piston was lightly scored. Just cleaned up the piston, cyl, and ring, and measured the squish. It's .038, I'd like to do a gasket delete, but there's a gap between the two halves of the case that's .0035", so I think a gasket delete is not an option. Maybe a thinner gasket???

The HD3236 will cut 36 in logs and I think the LT50 will cut 30 or 32??? Have you guys looked at the Cooks saws? A lot of extra features for less money IMHO. Especially on this model vs the lt40.

thanks for the tips,
Ken


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 7, 2017)

My mill scraps turn into firewood for the shop .I have a backhoe ,but it is old like a 1974 case ,hard to see over the hood loading the mill ,i have an old skid loader i put forks on ,it does a lot ,very nice for putting logs on the mill with as right in front of you is all vision ,also being a skid steer if log is crooked can pivot in your own spot to position the log on the mill .My chainsaw mill ,not fancy but it gets wood cut up .


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## customcutter (Nov 7, 2017)

There you go, I've wanted a fireplace, almost as long as I've wanted a log home, and nothing to say you can't put a wood heater in the large shop. Sometimes the answers are just staring you in the face. We get 5-6 days a year down hear that we have to turn the heat on. LOL. 

Nothing wrong with the CSM, I was wanting one when Irma came through and left all these large trees down. Lot of good wood went to the chippers and dumps. I just came to the realization I'm to old to be pushing and pulling on those big pieces any more. Going to have to have some hydraulics if it's going to get done, or cables and pulleys, etc.


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## hseII (Nov 7, 2017)

customcutter said:


> Hey Heath, the shop/temp home I hope to only live in for 6months -1 year. I was planning on slab foundation, PT pine on that and then sawn framing from there with vertical siding and 1x2" over the cracks. Probably not even lining the interior walls, except maybe the bathroom/kitchen area. Metal roofing. Just something to eat/sleep in when we are there working on the new log home.
> 
> I'm hoping to find property with trees that I can cut 20' sections out of that are 12-16" in diameter to use for the log home. Yes that's going to be heavy, I'm hoping to borrow a Massey Ferguson tractor that my In-laws have that has a front set of forks on it. I've also considered purchasing some type of equipment but not sure what yet. I was thinking the other night that a back-hoe would be perfect. Stacked logs on one side, load them on the saw, cut the cants, unload and stack on the opposite side. But that's probably a little pricey? I'd like to have something that could be used to lift and place the logs on the walls also. I've been thinking about ways to load the logs onto the trailer with cables and a 4 wheeler. Off loading is another problem??? Also wondering what I'm going to do with all of the scraps???? Had one fellow tell me you're not in the saw business your in the trucking business.... I don't think I want to do this commercially, but who knows....
> 
> ...



I went with a Kubota M7060 Utility tractor for the additional usage, 




but a skid steer link I mentioned could be had in the $10,000 range. 

We’ve sawn 32”ish logs on our LT-40s. 

Download a log weight calculator.

I use the Norwood’s.


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## customcutter (Nov 7, 2017)

Yes a tractor definetly has more all around uses. The in-laws have the small yellow MF with the forks that handles 5' hay bales easily, not sure about 2300#. I think it 40-50HP. Then they have 2 old red MF that they used to use baling hay many years ago. They also 4 fairly new JD cabbed tractors that are 125-150HP that they use to custom bale hay with. They sold off 400+ head of cows with calves several years ago when the market peaked. Now they are just custom baling hay. They are semi-retired at 84 yrs old and leasing out the farm. The little yellow MF doesn't see much use unless the JD with the hay spear won't handle it, but he does have forks for it. 

I'd have to buy a green on though or he'd **** a brick. Nothing but American made. He won't wear it, eat it, drink it, what ever if it says anything but American on it. We buy him lottery tickets for birthdays and Christmas. LOL


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## hseII (Nov 7, 2017)

customcutter said:


> Yes a tractor definetly has more all around uses. The in-laws have the small yellow MF with the forks that handles 5' hay bales easily, not sure about 2300#. I think it 40-50HP. Then they have 2 old red MF that they used to use baling hay many years ago. They also 4 fairly new JD cabbed tractors that are 125-150HP that they use to custom bale hay with. They sold off 400+ head of cows with calves several years ago when the market peaked. Now they are just custom baling hay. They are semi-retired at 84 yrs old and leasing out the farm. The little yellow MF doesn't see much use unless the JD with the hay spear won't handle it, but he does have forks for it.
> 
> I'd have to buy a green on though or he'd **** a brick. Nothing but American made. He won't wear it, eat it, drink it, what ever if it says anything but American on it. We buy him lottery tickets for birthdays and Christmas. LOL



You can’t buy a new US Made Green Tractor in the 50-70hp range.

The best respected series ever, the 50 & 55 series smaller tractors were made in France so he’s either running Big Green or Old Green if he follows his rules.

We’ve had the better part of a dozen of them through the years.

The MFs are made overseas also.

I’ll take Japan over India, (John Deere), Turkey, I think (MF), or China any day.


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## customcutter (Nov 7, 2017)

No, he doesn't have anything less than 125HP. When they were in Montezuma GA, he had a 12 wheeler, dang tires were about 7' tall from what I remember. Almost 300HP, my son used to go up on summer vacation and run the tractor. They were farming 1800 acres then. Sold out and moved to Quitman, near Valdosta, then over to Geneva AL about 10 years ago.


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## hseII (Nov 7, 2017)

customcutter said:


> No, he doesn't have anything less than 125HP. When they were in Montezuma GA, he had a 12 wheeler, dang tires were about 7' tall from what I remember. Almost 300HP, my son used to go up on summer vacation and run the tractor. They were farming 1800 acres then. Sold out and moved to Quitman, near Valdosta, then over to Geneva AL about 10 years ago.



It’s sad to say, but Kubota is the best thing going in the 50-70hp Utility Tractor market. 

Compare for yourself & you’ll see why I bought from Big Orange.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 7, 2017)

customcutter said:


> Hey guys, recently retired a few months ago, 63 now and wanted to build a log home since I was about 30. We presently live on 1/4 acre 2100 sq ft home and pay about $2500 yr in property taxes, and have to pull a permit to put up a shed or a fence.
> 
> My in-laws live in Alabama on 700 acres, bigger home, more buildings, structures, etc and pay $700/yr in taxes and live in an un-restricted county.
> 
> ...



As for milling, I know next to nothing.

But you asked about contracting the logging, many things to be aware of here...

Loggers should get paid with the wood, i.e. the wood they cut and send to a mill, is how they get paid. This becomes an issue if you intend to keep all the saw wood... Not that we don't mind cash, check or credit cards... it just keeps everyone honest if they get paid from the timber rather then some made up number.

There is going to be a massive mess, limbs, tops, ruts, mud are all part of logging, good loggers will minimize the mess and damage to the land, but its not unavoidable.

There are several ways to work a contract being lump sum or percentage, this is somewhat regional, but personally i like percentage, keeps everyone honest. For what you intend to do, it might be a kinda deal where they take X amount of timber at X percentage, and leave X amount of board feet for you to saw, say they log it for 60-70% and leave 10-20000 bf for you to play with. Yer just going to have to talk to the local loggers.

Don't be afraid to contact a county or commercial forester, they know the timber better than any of us here.

finally... I think... 70-100 acres is potentially a whole bunch of wood... many 1000's of board feet, way more then enough to build a couple log cabins. So it might be better to find yerself an up and coming logger, one with small equipment and small overhead that can come in and cut a couple few loads, and leave a month or 3 worth of home saw stuff, and mosey on back as needed.


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## customcutter (Nov 8, 2017)

I should have clarified, I don't want to clear cut the property I'm buying. I was wondering about purchasing logs from off-site and having them brought in. Especially dead dry trees, something that hasn't damaged the integrity of the wood. I would only cut enough trees on my property to build with and hopefully do it myself.

Your post does bring up another question though. I'm wondering what the approximate cost is to clean up the land is after a property has been clear cut? Removing stumps, debris etc. I would think it would cost more than the land at approx $1200/acre?

thanks,
Ken


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## northmanlogging (Nov 8, 2017)

customcutter said:


> I should have clarified, I don't want to clear cut the property I'm buying. I was wondering about purchasing logs from off-site and having them brought in. Especially dead dry trees, something that hasn't damaged the integrity of the wood. I would only cut enough trees on my property to build with and hopefully do it myself.
> 
> Your post does bring up another question though. I'm wondering what the approximate cost is to clean up the land is after a property has been clear cut? Removing stumps, debris etc. I would think it would cost more than the land at approx $1200/acre?
> 
> ...



Ah, fer the first side then you would just have to call around and find local loggers willing to sell you stuff, but your going to have to compete with any local mills as for pricing, knowing your markets is important then.

I figure about 40 hours to the acre for full clean up, including stumping etc, then an additional cost if the brush needs hauled off (local laws suck) or another couple days to burn it. Rates change all over the country, out here its anywhere from $100 to $150 an hour 5k on average per acre... plus removal.

another option is to bring in a tub grinder, and mulch everything, makes everything real purdy, but they is uber spensive.


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## customcutter (Nov 8, 2017)

Thanks, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Anything clear cut is going to cost more to clean up than the land is worth where I'm looking to buy. I've seen a few in the $1200-1500/acre with woods on them. What I haven't inquired about is if that includes the timber rights????


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## northmanlogging (Nov 8, 2017)

to be clear though, stacking the brush etc should just be part of the logging, its the stumping that gets expensive.


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## hseII (Nov 8, 2017)

customcutter said:


> Thanks, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Anything clear cut is going to cost more to clean up than the land is worth where I'm looking to buy. I've seen a few in the $1200-1500/acre with woods on them. What I haven't inquired about is if that includes the timber rights????





northmanlogging said:


> to be clear though, stacking the brush etc should just be part of the logging, its the stumping that gets expensive.



You should be able to burn in LA. [emoji41]

Your main cost will be a contractor with an excavator digging stumps: plan on $100-150 an hr as Northman said.

Northy made very good suggestions. 


I would only add that once the forester gives you his view, you should consider the layout, roads, how you want the property to be when finished, etc..

If a fellow has the means to do so, I would cut my own timber for my sawing, buying only what equipment I needed to reach my goal, & then contact a Local logger for the remaining clearing you don’t want to fool with.


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## customcutter (Nov 8, 2017)

Yes, I was mostly wanting to know prices of clean-up if a piece were available that I was considering that was already clear cut. If 20 of 100 acres were already clear cut it looks like the best option would be to replant. My main goal it to buy mostly forested. Cut some for personal use or to clear out an area to put a pond if there's a stream on the property. Something that is partially forested and 10-20% farmland might be ideal. The wife's only stipulation is she wants a stream or pond on the property. Also she doesn't want to live with me in the old '61 airstream that's kinda funky smelling now. Used 10-15 years ago for hunting camp. LOL


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## JTM (Nov 8, 2017)

If I were buying a piece of property for timber use where you are considering then I would want a forester’s assessment. http://www.forestry.alabama.gov/PDFs/SPB State Map.pdf


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## customcutter (Nov 8, 2017)

JTM said:


> If I were buying a piece of property for timber use where you are considering then I would want a forester’s assessment. http://www.forestry.alabama.gov/PDFs/SPB State Map.pdf


JTM. Thanks for that info. Just to be clear. Where the blue dots are located there are beetle infestations located by airplane.

I'm assuming they affect/kill pine species. Do they harm other species as well? If a tree has been killed by beetles is suitable to be harvested for lumber/logs for either frame timber contruction or log home construction?

thanks,
Ken


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## hseII (Nov 8, 2017)

customcutter said:


> Yes, I was mostly wanting to know prices of clean-up if a piece were available that I was considering that was already clear cut. If 20 of 100 acres were already clear cut it looks like the best option would be to replant. My main goal it to buy mostly forested. Cut some for personal use or to clear out an area to put a pond if there's a stream on the property. Something that is partially forested and 10-20% farmland might be ideal. The wife's only stipulation is she wants a stream or pond on the property. Also she doesn't want to live with me in the old '61 airstream that's kinda funky smelling now. Used 10-15 years ago for hunting camp. LOL



Love Grows best in Little Places. [emoji12]

Build a homestead cabin first.


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## customcutter (Nov 8, 2017)

hseII said:


> Love Grows best in Little Places. [emoji12]
> 
> Build a homestead cabin first.


That's what I told her, but she said it ain't happening in that stinky airstream. You know the story, "A happy wife, is a happy life!" That's how I talked her into the 30or40X50shop with the little efficiency appt as "she" now calls it. She's beginning to think it was her idea..... I get the WM a 40X50 shop instead of a 20X20 garage that all my machinist tools are crammed into, and I may get a tractor too. Plus we both get a log cabin, 100 acres of property, and live happily ever after....


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## customcutter (Nov 8, 2017)

Seriously guys, what's the story on the beetles and use of the trees?


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## hseII (Nov 8, 2017)

customcutter said:


> That's what I told her, but she said it ain't happening in that stinky airstream. You know the story, "A happy wife, is a happy life!" That's how I talked her into the 30or40X50shop with the little efficiency appt as "she" now calls it. She's beginning to think it was her idea..... I get the WM a 40X50 shop instead of a 20X20 garage that all my machinist tools are crammed into, and I may get a tractor too. Plus we both get a log cabin, 100 acres of property, and live happily ever after....



Go 40’x60’.

16’ side walls if you don’t want a full upstairs.
20’ side walls if you do.

I’ve never heard anybody say they wish they’d built a smaller shop.


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## Trx250r180 (Nov 8, 2017)

If milling the wood a few bugs in the sapwood is ok ,but if its a dead snag tree cut it for firewood ,wood will be too punky or soft to build with.


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## hseII (Nov 8, 2017)

Trx250r180 said:


> If milling the wood a few bugs in the sapwood is ok ,but if its a dead snag tree cut it for firewood ,wood will be too punky or soft to build with.



HondaMan Speaks The Truth.


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## hseII (Nov 8, 2017)

customcutter said:


> Seriously guys, what's the story on the beetles and use of the trees?



If you catch it in time, you can use the wood for sawing. 

But what Brian said if it’s the least bit soft.


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## hseII (Nov 8, 2017)

customcutter said:


> That's what I told her, but she said it ain't happening in that stinky airstream. You know the story, "A happy wife, is a happy life!" That's how I talked her into the 30or40X50shop with the little efficiency appt as "she" now calls it. She's beginning to think it was her idea..... I get the WM a 40X50 shop instead of a 20X20 garage that all my machinist tools are crammed into, and I may get a tractor too. Plus we both get a log cabin, 100 acres of property, and live happily ever after....





hseII said:


> Go 40’x60’.
> 
> 16’ side walls if you don’t want a full upstairs.
> 20’ side walls if you do.
> ...



Let me further elaborate: a 40’x60’ with an additional 20’ open bay on the back for the sawmill. 

40’x80’ roof & Frame.

40’x60’ enclosed space.

Leave min. 8’ On The Back side so you can use your skid steer to keep the sawdust pushed out.


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## customcutter (Nov 8, 2017)

hseII said:


> Go 40’x60’.
> 
> 16’ side walls if you don’t want a full upstairs.
> 20’ side walls if you do.
> ...



Yes, I was thinking higher walls would give the heat somewhere to go in the summer too. I'm not sure I like upstairs though unless it's storage for something I don't use. 30 years of climbing stairs in my old corporate job at the mines.


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## customcutter (Nov 8, 2017)

Thanks guys, so the tree will be dead (most likely) where the beetles have invaded the tree. If the wood is the least bit soft/punky it's firewood material, until I get down to solid wood. So kinda means they ain't suitable at all for logs in a log structure.

Got another question. If I'm cutting pines that are 20" 2' or so above the ground, how long of a log will I most likely get before I'm down to 15-16"? Will I be getting 20' logs or is that too much to ask?


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## JTM (Nov 8, 2017)

customcutter said:


> JTM. Thanks for that info. Just to be clear. Where the blue dots are located there are beetle infestations located by airplane.
> 
> I'm assuming they affect/kill pine species. Do they harm other species as well? If a tree has been killed by beetles is suitable to be harvested for lumber/logs for either frame timber contruction or log home construction?
> 
> ...


The blue dots are correct but embarrassed to say I can’t answer your other questions. There’s some very knowledgeable folks on here that maybe could.


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## hseII (Nov 8, 2017)

customcutter said:


> Yes, I was thinking higher walls would give the heat somewhere to go in the summer too. I'm not sure I like upstairs though unless it's storage for something I don't use. 30 years of climbing stairs in my old corporate job at the mines.



Mama’s gonna need somewhere to store all her Antiques.


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## hseII (Nov 8, 2017)

customcutter said:


> JTM. Thanks for that info. Just to be clear. Where the blue dots are located there are beetle infestations located by airplane.
> 
> I'm assuming they affect/kill pine species. Do they harm other species as well? If a tree has been killed by beetles is suitable to be harvested for lumber/logs for either frame timber contruction or log home construction?
> 
> ...



If you catch it in time, you can salvage it.

We’ve caught a few.

You’ll know it when you cut into it.

If the bark is coming off, it’s trash.


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## Skeans (Nov 13, 2017)

customcutter said:


> Thanks guys, so the tree will be dead (most likely) where the beetles have invaded the tree. If the wood is the least bit soft/punky it's firewood material, until I get down to solid wood. So kinda means they ain't suitable at all for logs in a log structure.
> 
> Got another question. If I'm cutting pines that are 20" 2' or so above the ground, how long of a log will I most likely get before I'm down to 15-16"? Will I be getting 20' logs or is that too much to ask?


Kind of sounds like a good place to run CTL all trash tops ect the machines run in the woods, lengths are normally up to 26' with a forwarder, and it's an easy clean way to thin an area. This is off my CTL side in NW Oregon pulp and logs are typically sorted in the woods and as far loading I'd look for a used forwarder it does all the above but cutting which some can do as well.









Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## customcutter (Nov 13, 2017)

Thanks, but just looking to harvest enough trees off my own property to build a 40X60 shop and a 2000-3000 sq ft log home.


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## Skeans (Nov 13, 2017)

customcutter said:


> Thanks, but just looking to harvest enough trees off my own property to build a 40X60 shop and a 2000-3000 sq ft log home.


Yeah I understand that, we did a job a couple of years ago that all we did was pulp the landowner paid us for the logs on a per ton base this might work for you.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## customcutter (Nov 13, 2017)

OK, I had asked that question about having dead or dying trees salvaged somewhere else and brought in for me to mill. But I'm sure it's pretty specific to location. Also now that I think about it, I doubt if I would want to bring diseased or pest ridden trees to my location. The beetles are giving central and south AL a fit the last few years due to drought.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 14, 2017)

once the beetles are in your area, just a matter of time anyway, 

Not sure, but I think once the tree is dead, the beetles move out anyway. Could be a potential source of cheap logs.


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## customcutter (Nov 14, 2017)

northmanlogging said:


> once the beetles are in your area, just a matter of time anyway,
> 
> Not sure, but I think once the tree is dead, the beetles move out anyway. Could be a potential source of cheap logs.



I need to find out more information, I talked to the Forestry Agent a little bit last week and he indicated that the beetles don't do much damage unless the trees are already stressed. As in this case the severe drought that was going on. But I'll double check. Also wondering what the grade of lumber would be if the sap has already drained back out of the standing timber? Not talking about rotten or punky wood, just dried center wood away from the outer layers.


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## hseII (Nov 14, 2017)

customcutter said:


> I need to find out more information, I talked to the Forestry Agent a little bit last week and he indicated that the beetles don't do much damage unless the trees are already stressed. As in this case the severe drought that was going on. But I'll double check. Also wondering what the grade of lumber would be if the sap has already drained back out of the standing timber? Not talking about rotten or punky wood, just dried center wood away from the outer layers.



It’s truly dependent upon the particular log.


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## customcutter (Nov 14, 2017)

hseII said:


> It’s truly dependent upon the particular log.



I guess it would depend on how long the tree has been standing since it died, the sooner the better probably?


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## hseII (Nov 14, 2017)

customcutter said:


> I guess it would depend on how long the tree has been standing since it died, the sooner the better probably?



Yes Sir.

If the bark is falling off it, don’t even. 

You can tell otherwise as soon as you stick a saw in it.


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## customcutter (Nov 14, 2017)

hseII said:


> Yes Sir.
> 
> If the bark is falling off it, don’t even.
> 
> You can tell otherwise as soon as you stick a saw in it.



Thank you Sir, I'm learning a lot!!!!!


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## Ted Jenkins (Nov 14, 2017)

I supplied many home owners with lodge pole pine when living in Oregon. Approximately 12'' in diam and then they were three sided. When we had a large disease of Pine trees here in California about 15 years ago all the logs had to be milled because of building code. The logs we used were much larger though about 18'' average. Every body I worked with always used dry logs before starting to eliminate warpage. As they were nailing them together they ran a saw down the center to put in the insulation strips. Many used a cherry picker or tractor to put them together. Bobcats have been quite often used. Thanks


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## customcutter (Nov 14, 2017)

Ted Jenkins said:


> I supplied many home owners with lodge pole pine when living in Oregon. Approximately 12'' in diam and then they were three sided. When we had a large disease of Pine trees here in California about 15 years ago all the logs had to be milled because of building code. The logs we used were much larger though about 18'' average. Every body I worked with always used dry logs before starting to eliminate warpage. As they were nailing them together they ran a saw down the center to put in the insulation strips. Many used a cherry picker or tractor to put them together. Bobcats have been quite often used. Thanks


Thanks Ted, doing my research now. Looking at different construction techniques, I was thinking at first of milling tops and bottoms and leaving the sides round, but that seems to invite rot. So I may be doing more chinking. Still looking at and trying to decide what method will be the least mtc.


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## Ted Jenkins (Nov 14, 2017)

Custom I have not tried many things that seem like a good plan. Chinking in many cases just does not work. That said there are those out there that claim it is the only way to go. In California for most part can not happen because all interior must be dry walled. Here is what works, if the logs are two sided top and bottom with one or more groves then the foam strips are inserted in the groves with a weather tight fit. Otherwise the logs have to be fitted together top and bottom with very very poor insulation qualities because the areas where the logs come together is thin. My house has insulation value of at least R50 which does make a difference unless only living in the house during the summer. Thanks


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## customcutter (Nov 14, 2017)

I would like to use logs that are milled on at least 2 sides. When stacking, if somehow the top log could hang out over the bottom log, and have a grove (drip line) milled into, so that the water doesn't carry back to the lower log. That would seem to be ideal. I don't like the idea of milling slots into the logs top or bottom where the logs will be sitting on top of each other, there's no way for them to dry out. I've thought about different ways to lean the cants on the sawmill so as to get a slightly non-horizontal line when stacking the logs vertically when building, so that the water would naturally drain back out from between the logs. I know there needs to be some type of insulation material between the logs. Just trying to minimize it, and not spend a fortune of sealants. thanks, Ken

PS that's another reason I don't want to build where there are a ton on restrictions and codes, let me deal with the problems in my own way.


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## hseII (Nov 14, 2017)

customcutter said:


> I would like to use logs that are milled on at least 2 sides. When stacking, if somehow the top log could hang out over the bottom log, and have a grove (drip line) milled into, so that the water doesn't carry back to the lower log. That would seem to be ideal. I don't like the idea of milling slots into the logs top or bottom where the logs will be sitting on top of each other, there's no way for them to dry out. I've thought about different ways to lean the cants on the sawmill so as to get a slightly non-horizontal line when stacking the logs vertically when building, so that the water would naturally drain back out from between the logs. I know there needs to be some type of insulation material between the logs. Just trying to minimize it, and not spend a fortune of sealants. thanks, Ken
> 
> PS that's another reason I don't want to build where there are a ton on restrictions and codes, let me deal with the problems in my own way.



Alabama it is then.


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## customcutter (Nov 14, 2017)

Yes, I'm pretty sure. I told the wife I would check on N Florida, but I doubt it's going to work out... Would be closer the the grand daughters in Jacksonville, but only an hour or maybe 2. Not worth the hassles or extra taxes IMHO


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 14, 2017)

customcutter said:


> There you go, I've wanted a fireplace, almost as long as I've wanted a log home, and nothing to say you can't put a wood heater in the large shop. Sometimes the answers are just staring you in the face. We get 5-6 days a year down hear that we have to turn the heat on. LOL.
> 
> Nothing wrong with the CSM, I was wanting one when Irma came through and left all these large trees down. Lot of good wood went to the chippers and dumps. I just came to the realization I'm to old to be pushing and pulling on those big pieces any more. Going to have to have some hydraulics if it's going to get done, or cables and pulleys, etc.



I had to laugh. We have roughly 2.5-3 months of "don't need to heat" weather.

Warm weather sounds nice right niw. Was -5* last morning. About 30* now, but with a 50+ mph wind.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 14, 2017)

Yup wood stove has been going since the end of September. Probably won't quit until march or april. Not as cold as -5 but say 35 and damp all the time.


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## customcutter (Nov 14, 2017)

I'd gladly trade you guys 20-30*. It's been in the mid to upper 80's all week. It's cooling off for us. Hope to make it to AK in the next year or two, but hope it's not on one of those dang cruise ships. I've heard the train trips are much better. Get off and on, stay a couple of days, etc.


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## Ted Jenkins (Nov 15, 2017)

We have had almost a month of very pleasant mild weather. Nice to work in for sure , but only one or two wood calls a day. Which is the best part. From experience nice Oak has a great shelf life. 40s at night 60s to 65 for a high what is not to like. Thanks


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