# Trailer frames and ratings



## KMB (Dec 15, 2010)

Doing more trailer research (for firewood). This might be a question for the fellas that have built trailers and know about iron specs. and so on. I’ve been looking at the specs. of different trailer manufacturers, in particular the 7K rated utility trailers (tandem axle, 77” or 83” wide, 16’ long minimum, and with 3500lb. axles). Regarding the main trailer frame materials, so far I’ve seen 3” x 2” x 3/16” angle, 3” x 3” x 3/16” angle, 3” x 3” x ¼” angle, and 4” x 3” x ¼” angle. Cross members have been 3” x 2” x 3/16” angle and one had 3” x 3” x 3/16” angle. Also some have A-frame channel tongues and others have channel wrap tongues. My question mainly is about the different angle iron sizes for the frames. Would the 3” x 2” x 3/16” angle frame need more cross members on center than the ‘larger’ angle iron frames I’ve mentioned to be up to the 7K rating? Is the 4” x 3” x ¼” angle frame trailer ‘over built’ for a 7K rating? 

Some of the trailer manufacturers that I’ve been looking at start at a 7K rating for their utility tandem axle trailers, except for Big Tex where I think that a 4K rated utility tandem trailer is where they start. Big Tex’s 5K trailer has a 3” x 2” x 3/16” angle frame, 3” x 2” x 3/16” angle cross members, and an A-frame channel tongue. The 6K version has a 4” x 3” x ¼” angle frame, 3” x 2” x 3/16” angle cross members, and an A-frame channel tongue. The 7K version has a 4” x 3” x ¼” angle frame, 3” x 2” x 3/16” angle cross members, and a channel fold back (wrap) tongue. I should add that all 3 of these trailers have 2-3500lb. axles. One other company has a 7K rated trailer built like Big Tex’s 5K trailer. A few other companies have their 7K rated trailer built the same way as Big Tex’s 5K trailer except with a channel wrap tongue. It seems like Big Tex ‘over builds’ their trailers…correct? I do know they are higher priced as well. Can anybody shed some light on this topic?

Kevin


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## daddy (Dec 15, 2010)

Kevin, my general take on manufactured trailers is that they are built to a price point, and that they are built to the minimum standards possible. 
I would say the big tex is not overbuilt, but rather the others are underbuilt. 
I'm not a real big fan of angle for frames. I like channel.

This is a mid construction pic of one I built. It has 3500# axles, 5" channel frame and what I call "jr. I beams" for crossmembers.(4" tall).


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## KMB (Dec 15, 2010)

daddy said:


> Kevin, my general take on manufactured trailers is that they are built to a price point, and that they are built to the minimum standards possible.
> I would say the big tex is not overbuilt, but rather the others are underbuilt.
> I'm not a real big fan of angle for frames. I like channel.
> 
> This is a mid construction pic of one I built. It has 3500# axles, 5" channel frame and what I call "jr. I beams" for crossmembers.(4" tall).



Thanks for the reply. I guess there's not many that notices these details. I try to thoroughly research any purchase that to me is lots of money. I probably research to much sometimes...oh well.

I think I would agree with your statement about other manufacturers being underbuilt or built to the bare legal minimum. Like you also mentioned, the pricing shows this also. I'm still deciding about getting a single axle trailer for now (I have reasons) and adding a tandem axle trailer later (yep, I have more reasons) OR just getting a tandem alone. Either way, I'll try and find the balance between price and trailer build quality.

Good on ya for having the skills and tools/equipment to build a trailer to your specs.

Kevin


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## Captain Crunch (Dec 16, 2010)

Many typical utility trailers made with angle frames have a top rail in addition to the main rail. Calculating the strength with the top rail is much more complicated than if there only a main rail. 
To keep things simple, you can compare the moment of inertia of the main frame rails for different sizes. Here links for angle with unequal leg length and equal leg length. Look at the Ix column. 

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steel-angles-unequal-legs-d_1323.html

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steel-angles-d_1322.html

Again, since there IS a top rail, things are much more complicated. 

I agree that the c channel is a far better shape, far stronger and stiffer for the same weight, or much lighter for the same strength. There are tables online, mostly for heavy C's not typcial of trailers. The calculation is not hard. I can post the equation later if you are really interested.

Steve


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## KMB (Dec 16, 2010)

Captain Crunch said:


> Many typical utility trailers made with angle frames have a top rail in addition to the main rail. Calculating the strength with the top rail is much more complicated than if there only a main rail.
> To keep things simple, you can compare the moment of inertia of the main frame rails for different sizes. Here links for angle with unequal leg length and equal leg length. Look at the Ix column.
> 
> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steel-angles-unequal-legs-d_1323.html
> ...



Thanks for your input Steve. For what I have seen available manufactured 'locally', I will be trying for one of the 4" x 3" angle frame utility trailers. It looks like to get into a manufactured C channel frame trailer, you have to go to a 12K rated trailer and that would be to much trailer for my half ton (and my wallet).

Edit: I stand corrected about what size trailer I have seen online that is built with a C channel frame. I saw a 9995 lb rated trailer that has a 5" C channel frame.

Kevin


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## kstill361 (Dec 16, 2010)

KMB said:


> Thanks for your input Steve. For what I have seen available manufactured 'locally', I will be trying for one of the 4" x 3" angle frame utility trailers. It looks like to get into a manufactured C channel frame trailer, you have to go to a 12K rated trailer and that would be to much trailer for my half ton (and my wallet).
> 
> Edit: I stand corrected about what size trailer I have seen online that is built with a C channel frame. I saw a 9995 lb rated trailer that has a 5" C channel frame.
> 
> Kevin



Are you going to build one? 

My 2007 20' car trailer has 5" channel main frame with 4" channel wrap tounge. 2 3500lb axles. Its not a utility trailer but has stake pockets. I just put a fresh coat of stain on before winter this year. I got it in Sikeston MO , from Jerry James Trailers for $1835. The options I got with it include 2 brake axles, new wheels and tires, treated deck , extra wide, and breakaway kit


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## KMB (Dec 16, 2010)

kstill361 said:


> Are you going to build one?
> 
> My 2007 20' car trailer has 5" channel main frame with 4" channel wrap tounge. 2 3500lb axles. Its not a utility trailer but has stake pockets. I just put a fresh coat of stain on before winter this year. I got it in Sikeston MO , from Jerry James Trailers for $1835. The options I got with it include 2 brake axles, new wheels and tires, treated deck , extra wide, and breakaway kit.



Nice trailer. What do you pull it with?

No, I'm not going to build one. I use a borrowed 7K rated car hauler (Big Tex 70CH) that I've built removable wood sides for, but I would like my own trailer. Usually the trailer is readily available, but there have been times when I needed the trailer and it was not available for a few days...such as it is when you don't own something. I had thought about getting a similar car hauler, but without the dovetail. My approach/driveway has just enough of a slope so that the dovetail will sometimes rub momentarily. A car hauler allows for better, sturdier removable sideboards than a utility trailer, but thicker plywood cut in half to make 2' x 8' side boards would work for me. With the 24" sideboards in the stake pockets on the car hauler I use, it's about 27" to the top of the boards from the trailer floor. I can fit a thrown-in full cord with no problem and the trailer carries it very well. The weak link is my half ton...but I take it easy going down the road. The trailer has 1 brake axle, and my truck (1997 F150 SC 4x4, rated to pull 6600 lbs. with the 4.6L V8 and 3.55 gears that it has) has a tranny cooler, Timbren springs and heavier duty shocks. Those things help...but at the end of the day it's still a half ton...and it'll have to do for a while. I'll add that I like the use of a tail/ramp gate on a utility trailer.

I priced this trailer today with some options to see what I to save for. It is 83" x 16', and the options are the 4" x 3" x 1/4" angle frame, 48" tail gate with 2 extra supports and a spare tire mount. $1887 out the door. There are more frame options (5" x 3" x 1/4" angle, and 5" and 6" C channel), but for my truck, this would be enough trailer. If/when I could get into a 3/4 ton or 1 ton later, I'd sell the trailer and upgrade to a 10K or 12K trailer which would have the 5" angle or C channel frame. The only other option I would be undecided on is brakes on the second axle. Knowing how the loaded (1 cord) trailer I use stops with one brake axle, which is okay, I think I'd like extra braking...especially in an emergency. With a second brake axle, it would probably put the trailer over the $2000 mark. We'll see.

Kevin


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 16, 2010)

I've been trying to look for a trailer recently too, for a march purchase. I want a 6x12 tandem with both axles braked. The only guy I've talked to doesn't stock tandems smaller than 7x14. I want a compact 7k trailer. I have essentially the same truck as Kevin. 04 F150 4x4, 4.6L, 3k lb "Supersprings" helpers and a brake controller. Kevin's has an advantage over mine in that it is geared lower. IIRC mine has 3.31 gearing.

I want one build adequately for the purpose but not overbuilt so that I waste towing capacity pulling steel down the road.

Ian


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## kstill361 (Dec 16, 2010)

I still got the 1/2 ton 2003 F-150 4x4 with 5.4L . 
I remember seeing a picture of that trailer you borrow. I would like to upgrade to a 3/4 ton truck myself someday.


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## KMB (Dec 16, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I've been trying to look for a trailer recently too, for a march purchase. I want a 6x12 tandem with both axles braked. The only guy I've talked to doesn't stock tandems smaller than 7x14. I want a compact 7k trailer. I have essentially the same truck as Kevin. 04 F150 4x4, 4.6L, 3k lb "Supersprings" helpers and a brake controller. Kevin's has an advantage over mine in that it is geared lower. IIRC mine has 3.31 gearing.
> 
> *I want one build adequately for the purpose but not overbuilt so that I waste towing capacity pulling steel down the road.*
> 
> Ian



Very good point. That's why, for my truck and the weight I'll be putting on the trailer, I think the 4" x 3" x 1/4" angle frame would be plenty good enough for me. A 3" x 3" x 1/4" angle frame might work, but most manufacturers seem to go from the 3" x 2" x 3/16" angle to the 4" angle frame with nothing in between. I myself would feel better with the 4" angle frame for a 7K rated utility trailer.

And...LOL...I found a trailer manufacturer online that builds a 7K rated trailer with a C channel (4") frame. I'm having to eat my words about that I've only seen 12K rated and higher trailers with C channel frames. For curiosity, I'm going to try and get a quote from them (PJ Trailers).

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 16, 2010)

kstill361 said:


> I still got the 1/2 ton 2003 F-150 4x4 with 5.4L .
> I remember seeing a picture of that trailer you borrow. I would like to upgrade to a 3/4 ton truck myself someday.



What gears does your truck have?

This might be the picture you saw of the borrowed trailer and my truck:






Kevin


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## Mntn Man (Dec 16, 2010)

Why not find a used one? I got super lucky and found this off of Craigslist for $1500. It is a 2005 model 82 inches by 18+2 foot deck and 12,000 GVW. It has box tube cross members on 24 inch centers. This is at least the 3rd time posting this pic so, sorry. My truck is a Chevy 1/2 ton with 3.42 gears (perfect rpms at 55-60 mph out of overdrive) and the 5.3 engine. It pulled this just fine but it wasn't like I was trying to set any land-speed records. I have a 30 foot camper that I pull and can get 10 miles a gallon if the the wind isn't blowing. I can even put a trailer with 2 quads behind it, though I prefer not to because I am over length and it starts to pull harder than I like. You may be surprised what you can do with your Ford. It's not like you are going to be doing it day in, day out.

My cousin has an 18 foot 7000# rated trailer that he pulls with a cummins (chipped) powered Dodge. He wants to trade trailers.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## Nick359 (Dec 17, 2010)

I second the look for a used trailer. I found this one for $800 a few days ago on Craigslist. It needs new wood, which I bought today for $201 including the sides. I wish I would have seen Mntn mans' pic before I bought the wood. I think I like the 2x10 or 2x12s better than the three 2x4s with a gap, that I thought of on the way to Lowes. 

Mine is a tilt deck 7k car hauler. I will use it to haul a truck to the drag strip and mud pits, a tractor to odd jobs, and firewood. 

The last pic is my warn 9k winch that I run off of a deep cycle battery. I use it on several vehicles, so I don't want to hardwire it. I got all the logs on the trailer before the battery died. I will be getting a new cable, and making a better mount for the winch on the trailer.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Dec 17, 2010)

*Someone mention trailers?*

I just acquired a tandem (both brake) axle frame that used to have a camper on it. I don't even know the length of this thing! I'll probably shorten it a bit. It needs a deck and probably some strenghting. It's from an older camper so I'm betting the frame is a bit thicker than the newer ones. The coupler takes 2 1/4 ball (that is if I can remember correctly. I think I'll change it to 2". The good thing is I run a CNC plasma cutter for a metal fab shop in town. He also builds trailers! 

Currently it's under ~1-2 feet of snow. 

I like the idea of removable sides.


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 17, 2010)

KMB said:


> Very good point. That's why, for my truck and the weight I'll be putting on the trailer, I think the 4" x 3" x 1/4" angle frame would be plenty good enough for me. A 3" x 3" x 1/4" angle frame might work, but most manufacturers seem to go from the 3" x 2" x 3/16" angle to the 4" angle frame with nothing in between. I myself would feel better with the 4" angle frame for a 7K rated utility trailer.



Something I thought about to beef up an angle tongue would be to weld a piece of 1.5" x 1/4" wall round tube into the inside of the angle. I thought that would add strength and serve as a wire conduit too. Sound idea?

Ian


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## SkyP (Dec 17, 2010)

kstill361 said:


> The options I got with it include 2 brake axles, new wheels and tires, treated deck , extra wide, and breakaway kit



New wheels and tires were an option?
Actually there is a federal safety standard that makes it illegal to sell a NEW trailer with USED tires. A local dealer near me got in trouble for this, but I do see it done from time to time by the clueless. A purchaser can have the dealer install used tires if the purchaser owns them, the dealer cannot supply and sell used tires on a new trailer.

http://www.longhorntrailers.com/pdf/Installation-of-Used-Tires.pdf


I have a car trailer I bought in a pinch a few years ago, it didn't have the federally required clearance lights for an over 80" wide trailer, I added them later. It also had a 5000lb rated coupler on a 7000lb rated trailer. When I noticed this later I called the manufacturer and was told, aaah it will be ok its strong enough. I asked them how they'd convince a jury of that if it ever failed and hurt someone. Bottom line they sent a welder to town who cut off all the underrated couplers and put on new higher rated ones. 
Point being there is a lot of shoddy stuff in the trailer biz, so caveat emptor.

I don't like box tube trailers, my dump trailer is that way, noticed one day rusty water leaking out of a porous weld. I drilled small drain holes in both ends of every member to let them drain, it was amazing how much rain water was in some of the members. I suppose if all welds were perfect it wouldn't be an issue. Rust in the interior would take a toll eventually, especially where they use salt. I did later blow a FluidFilm mist through each box tube, hope it coated most of the inside to prevent future rust.


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## KMB (Dec 17, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Something I thought about to beef up an angle tongue would be to weld a piece of 1.5" x 1/4" wall round tube into the inside of the angle. I thought that would add strength and serve as a wire conduit too. Sound idea?
> 
> Ian



Ian, sounds like a good idea. Conduit for the wire is always good on a trailer for protection from the elements.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 17, 2010)

Mntn Man said:


> Why not find a used one? I got super lucky and found this off of Craigslist for $1500. It is a 2005 model 82 inches by 18+2 foot deck and 12,000 GVW. It has box tube cross members on 24 inch centers. This is at least the 3rd time posting this pic so, sorry. My truck is a Chevy 1/2 ton with 3.42 gears (perfect rpms at 55-60 mph out of overdrive) and the 5.3 engine. It pulled this just fine but it wasn't like I was trying to set any land-speed records. I have a 30 foot camper that I pull and can get 10 miles a gallon if the the wind isn't blowing. I can even put a trailer with 2 quads behind it, though I prefer not to because I am over length and it starts to pull harder than I like. You may be surprised what you can do with your Ford. It's not like you are going to be doing it day in, day out.
> 
> My cousin has an 18 foot 7000# rated trailer that he pulls with a cummins (chipped) powered Dodge. He wants to trade trailers.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Nice trailer you have there. Any idea of how much wood is on there? What I mean is if you stacked it, what were the stack dimensions as to figuring how many full cords are on that trailer. Out of curiosity, what is the tow rating on your Chevy? Do you have any suspension upgrades/mods? I know I have a lot of questions, just interesting to see what other folks are doing with their trucks and trailers.

I agree that I don't haul firewood day in, day out. I know that a trucks specs might be less than what it can actually do and the manufacturer has to protect itself, but for me the specs are a basis for me to go by. Maybe I'm chicken or baby my truck to much, but I'm careful in how I use my truck. When I'm loading the trailer I check the Timbren springs to see how compressed they are. When I'm going down the road loaded (out of overdrive), I'm listening to what the truck is doing. For me and my truck, I feel that a full cord of green oak (about 5500 lbs) on a 1800 lb trailer (approx. weight of a 16' x 83" 7K rated trailer...from some of the specs I've seen) would be tops. It would be 700 lbs over what my truck is rated for. I know, I know...there I go with spec numbers again....

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 17, 2010)

Mntn Man said:


> Why not find a used one?





Nick359 said:


> I second the look for a used trailer.



I wouldn't mind used at all...if I could find very close to what I want in a trailer. I've already mentioned what I would want in a trailer. I'm kinda picky on some things . I do look on CL, look over the local papers, and see what's for sale as I drive through the country side. I'm guessing that I'll have to eventually buy new. If I do find a used one it'll probably be 2 or more hours away one-way. There's not much used locally that I have seen. I'd hate to drive that far and see that a trailer is not what I want.



SkyP said:


> New wheels and tires were an option?
> Actually there is a federal safety standard that makes it illegal to sell a NEW trailer with USED tires. A local dealer near me got in trouble for this, but I do see it done from time to time by the clueless. A purchaser can have the dealer install used tires if the purchaser owns them, the dealer cannot supply and sell used tires on a new trailer.
> 
> http://www.longhorntrailers.com/pdf/Installation-of-Used-Tires.pdf



Good info to pass on.



SkyP said:


> I have a car trailer I bought in a pinch a few years ago, it didn't have the federally required clearance lights for an over 80" wide trailer, I added them later. It also had a 5000lb rated coupler on a 7000lb rated trailer. When I noticed this later I called the manufacturer and was told, aaah it will be ok its strong enough. I asked them how they'd convince a jury of that if it ever failed and hurt someone. Bottom line they sent a welder to town who cut off all the underrated couplers and put on new higher rated ones.
> Point being there is a lot of shoddy stuff in the trailer biz, so caveat emptor.



Good stuff to know. This is part of the reason why I like to know the detailed specs. on trailers. Sometimes the specs. might be hard to find out on a used trailer...but not always the case.

Kevin


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## Mntn Man (Dec 17, 2010)

I don't know how much wood is on there. Hopefully, I'll get it unloaded this weekend, then I'll know. It is mostly stacked on the trailer (vertically) so it is tighter than just thrown in.It is ash that was cut down last year and the year before so it is much lighter than green oak would be. I was going to weigh it so I would have a baseline and I may get that done today.

I have plenty of room on both sides of the axles to adjust tongue weight and have to pay attention to that when I'm loading it. I also do a brake check before hitting the road, checking for function and adjustment. (very important)

My 2006 Chevy 1/2 ton extended cab 4x4 is rated at about 8,000 lbs depending on who you believe. The motor is the 5.3 liter aluminum block (310 hp) with slightly higher compression than the iron blocks. It also gives me 300 lbs. more payload.  It has the off-road package so the springs are a little stiffer and higher than some. I also have added 6 ply tires and extendable camper mirrors. My camper is about 8000 lbs and it pulls like butter, most of the time I don't even use the sway control and load leveler unless it is windy. People are amazed when I show them my MPG figures from trips and it is 8-11mpg. I don't take off or stop very hard and usually keep it at 55-60 depending on wind and terrain. When I bought it, I was skeptical about the 3.42 gearing (wanted 3.73), but is seems to be just right. My all around mileage is about 12-15 mpg but that is mostly in town just to work and back. (3 miles there and 5 home because I have to go get the kids)

I baby my truck also. My last one I had for 14 years (18 years old when I got rid of it) and this one I bought new over 4 years ago and I just rolled it over to 46,000 miles. I dented the tailgate once with a piece of wood and it drove me nuts so I had to have it fixed. I don't allow my wife to put wood in it because she refuses to place it in there and just wants to throw it from wherever she is standing.

On the sideboards, I just used what I had laying around and realize that I will be adding to what is there. I just didn't want to be lifting the wood any higher than I had to.


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## Mntn Man (Dec 17, 2010)

Mntn Man said:


> I was going to weigh it so I would have a baseline and I may get that done today.



Well I got it done. 11,000 lbs on the axles and about 1000 tongue weight. Guess I had it proportioned out right. I most likely will not haul that big of a load again but at least now I know how high (not) to stack it. When I get it unloaded, I'll be able to get a tare weight and also see how many cords it is. I am not going to do that tonight, though.


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## kstill361 (Dec 17, 2010)

KMB said:


> What gears does your truck have?
> 
> This might be the picture you saw of the borrowed trailer and my truck:
> 
> ...



I dont know the gear ratio but yes that is the pic I remember


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## kstill361 (Dec 17, 2010)

SkyP said:


> New wheels and tires were an option?



Maybe it was just the rims that were the option, Im not sure . I see allot of ads that say new rims and tires in the details , but maybe thats their way of saying they are doin it right.


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## KMB (Dec 17, 2010)

Mntn Man said:


> I have plenty of room on both sides of the axles to adjust tongue weight and have to pay attention to that when I'm loading it. *I also do a brake check before hitting the road, checking for function and adjustment. (very important)*



Very much agree. Thanks for the info on your truck. My truck with the bigger V8 (5.4L) and same gears (3.55) would gain 1K in tow rating (to 7700 lbs. from 6600 lbs. on my V8 4.6L). I bought my truck when it was 2 yrs. old and I lived in the city (Edmonton, AB, Canada). I really only used it for hunting and after I bought a little car to commute back and forth to work in, it mainly became a 'street ornament'. It finally got put to work when I pulled a fully loaded 16' (or 14' ?) U-haul trailer about 2500 miles down to where I am in SW Arkansas. Now I'm in the country and burn wood and now my truck is earning it's keep. Back when I was looking for a full size truck, I had settled on a Ford, but didn't know which V8 to go with. I settled on the 4.6L because I wanted better gas mileage and didn't _think_ I'd be pulling or hauling anything to heavy...if I could have had a crystal ball to see into the future, I would have at least got the 5.4L (I'm told not much difference in gas mileage) and maybe the light duty F250 4x4 with the thought of pulling a trailer with a load of wood. But I would have not knew how _heavy_ that Oak can be. Oh well, my next truck choice will be the right one.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 17, 2010)

kstill361 said:


> I dont know the gear ratio but yes that is the pic I remember



This might help you find out what gears your truck has: http://www.fordf150.net/howto/decode.php.

Kevin


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## kstill361 (Dec 17, 2010)

KMB said:


> Very much agree. Thanks for the info on your truck. My truck with the bigger V8 (5.4L) and same gears (3.55) would gain 1K in tow rating (to 7700 lbs. from 6600 lbs. on my V8 4.6L). I bought my truck when it was 2 yrs. old and I lived in the city (Edmonton, AB, Canada). I really only used it for hunting and after I bought a little car to commute back and forth to work in, it mainly became a 'street ornament'. It finally got put to work when I pulled a fully loaded 16' (or 14' ?) U-haul trailer about 2500 miles down to where I am in SW Arkansas. Now I'm in the country and burn wood and now my truck is earning it's keep. Back when I was looking for a full size truck, I had settled on a Ford, but didn't know which V8 to go with. I settled on the 4.6L because I wanted better gas mileage and didn't _think_ I'd be pulling or hauling anything to heavy...if I could have had a crystal ball to see into the future, I would have at least got the 5.4L (I'm told not much difference in gas mileage) and maybe the light duty F250 4x4 with the thought of pulling a trailer with a load of wood. But I would have not knew how _heavy_ that Oak can be. Oh well, my next truck choice will be the right one.
> 
> Kevin



I will check my gears later . If I remember we run the same tires too, Firestone Destination M/T . I get 12mi per gal with those tires , but damn they look good and get me through the mud and snow! My 5.4 only has 260hp , and i think the following year in 2004 the 5.4 put out 300hp

I always just figuire a (2000/2500lb car or dump trailer) with a cord of wood, id be where I want to be when towing with my truck, oh and I have the timbren springs to kevin, I love them.

Kevin


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## Mntn Man (Dec 17, 2010)

Ford likes to put that 4.6 in there to keep them cheaper. I believe the 5.4 actually gets better mileage as it works more efficiently. At least 60% of the Ford 1/2 tons have the 4.6 around here. You are hard pressed to find a 4.8 in a Chevy or GMC, though. I am a Chevy guy, but am always driving Fords at work so I am not anti-Ford, just prefer Chevys. I would love to have a Duramax with Allison transmision, but I like the drive-ability of the 1/2 ton.


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## KMB (Dec 17, 2010)

kstill361 said:


> I will check my gears later . If I remember we run the same tires too, Firestone Destination M/T . I get 12mi per gal with those tires , but damn they look good and get me through the mud and snow! My 5.4 only has 260hp , and i think the following year in 2004 the 5.4 put out 300hp
> 
> I always just figuire a (2000/2500lb car or dump trailer) with a cord of wood, id be where I want to be when towing with my truck, oh and I have the timbren springs to kevin, I love them.
> 
> Kevin



The tires I have on my truck are Cooper Discoverer ST's (LT265/75-16 C rated 6-ply). I get 15/16 mpg running empty (truck alone) and the last longer trip I took with it I got 14 mpg pulling a borrowed 6 x 10 utility trailer with a 600 lb ZTR mower on. I like the bigger tires, but I might go back to the 255/70-16's that came on the truck from the factory. My 4.6L is only rated at 220hp for 1997.

Yup, thumbs up for Timbrens!

Kevin


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## Mntn Man (Dec 17, 2010)

KMB said:


> The tires I have on my truck are Cooper Discoverer ST's (LT265/75-16 C rated 6-ply). Kevin



Me too! 265/70 17's (same diameter and width, I believe) I just got them and, so far, I am impressed.


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## KMB (Dec 17, 2010)

Mntn Man said:


> Ford likes to put that 4.6 in there to keep them cheaper. I believe the 5.4 actually gets better mileage as it works more efficiently. At least 60% of the Ford 1/2 tons have the 4.6 around here. You are hard pressed to find a 4.8 in a Chevy or GMC, though. I am a Chevy guy, but am always driving Fords at work so I am not anti-Ford, just prefer Chevys. I would love to have a Duramax with Allison transmision, but I like the drive-ability of the 1/2 ton.



Makes sense to me. I learned (after I bought my truck) that guys were getting only about 2 mpg better with the 5.4L. Guess I should have researched a little better before hand. I'm still happy with my truck. It's been good to me and I'll be sad when/if I sell it.

I was checking the KBB and NADA value on my truck and comparing it to the value of a 1997/96 F250HD 4x4 7.4L/460 crewcab with 4.10 gears and the 250HD is approx. $1000 more. In a perfect world, that would be nice to do for me to step up to the stronger truck, but there are a lot of variables to deal with.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 17, 2010)

Mntn Man said:


> Me too! 265/70 17's (same diameter and width, I believe) I just got them and, so far, I am impressed.



Good deal! Yours work out to 31.61" tall and mine work to 31.65" tall...basically the same.

Kevin


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## jimbojango (Dec 17, 2010)

Not to throw gas on your guys tea party... but my 2003 3/4 ton dodge cummins pulls a 28' gooseneck with 16 1500# bales of hay w/o trailer brakes down the highway at 70 miles an hour. I attempt to not make a habit out of running down the highway like that, but it happens. I also pull a 14,000# tractor around on the same trailer and never worry about being able to stop it, always have before w/o problems. I pulled a 32' rv w/ a gooseneck adapter WITH brakes and it pulled harder than any other trailer I've ever pulled empty. It didn't stop any better and i am sure the brakes worked and kicked in. Maybe on you guys that don't live in the country where its flat and don't drive big boy trucks need all your rating or maybe your DOT requires it. Out here it really doesn't make much difference. almost everyone drives a 3/4 ton or 1 ton (usually dually) though. I also have one of those (dually) and if none of that stuff is big enough for weight i have a 2 ton and semi's.


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 17, 2010)

My truck came from the factory with 235s on it. I used to get comments about why I am running such small tires. 

I have the same Discoverer S/T that Kevin has. It was the only tire that I could find in a 235 that had a decently course tread pattern other than the Goodyear MT. They are just too proud of them for my wallet. The next set of tires I get will be the S/T-C. Same tread pattern, twice the tread depth. 

Ian


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 17, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> It didn't stop any better and i am sure the brakes worked and kicked in



Folks look at me funny when I tell them that my 5x8 trailer has a braked axle. With it's 25" sides full of green oak, I can definitely tell a difference between now and when I had no brakes back there. It stops a lot easier and with less foot on the brake pedal.

Ian


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## les-or-more (Dec 17, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Folks look at me funny when I tell them that my 5x8 trailer has a braked axle. With it's 25" sides full of green oak, I can definitely tell a difference between now and when I had no brakes back there. It stops a lot easier and with less foot on the brake pedal.
> 
> Ian



I don't know about kansas but I know in NNY this time of year you won't go far before some wingnut pulls out in front of you and you have to lock it up. I can stop mine in about half the distance with brakes compared to without.


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## jimbojango (Dec 17, 2010)

i'm sure you guys are right in the "northern climate" there isn't any snow here... pretty rural and we don't have to many #######s that can't drive! if you don't have enough truck in front of what you're pulling you can't stop it, can't start it, can't control where its going to go. In those situations you probably need the brakes


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## Mntn Man (Dec 17, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> *Not to throw gas on your guys tea party*... but my 2003 3/4 ton dodge cummins pulls a 28' gooseneck with 16 1500# bales of hay w/o trailer brakes down the highway at 70 miles an hour. I attempt to not make a habit out of running down the highway like that, but it happens. I also pull a 14,000# tractor around on the same trailer and never worry about being able to stop it, always have before w/o problems. I pulled a 32' rv w/ a gooseneck adapter WITH brakes and it pulled harder than any other trailer I've ever pulled empty. It didn't stop any better and i am sure the brakes worked and kicked in. Maybe on you guys that don't live in the country where its flat and don't drive big boy trucks need all your rating or maybe your DOT requires it. Out here it really doesn't make much difference. almost everyone drives a 3/4 ton or 1 ton (usually dually) though. I also have one of those (dually) and if none of that stuff is big enough for weight i have a 2 ton and semi's.



Well, when you get out of pre-school, we'll show you how it's done::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

208 ton 2 story brick house





little diesel locomotive





Steam locomotive: 168 tires rolling 780,000 lbs if I remember correctly. Main beams are 96 feet long!





I've hauled things that would make you pee down your leg!:crazy1:


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## jimbojango (Dec 17, 2010)

probably not "pee down my leg" but i'd be impressed  I've drove some pretty good sized farm equpiment on sorry roads and bridges.


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 17, 2010)

Mntn Man said:


> I've hauled things that would make you pee down your leg!:crazy1:



Some folk pee down their leg for that warm sensation. :hmm3grin2orange:

Ian


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## Mntn Man (Dec 17, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> probably not "pee down my leg" but i'd be impressed  I've drove some pretty good sized farm equpiment on sorry roads and bridges.



Yup, we had some scary moments on sorry roads and bridges also.


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## jimbojango (Dec 17, 2010)

when you see a "2 ton bridge" sign and your already ON said bridge you sure squeem in the seat a lil


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## Mntn Man (Dec 18, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> when you see a "2 ton bridge" sign and your already ON said bridge you sure squeem in the seat a lil



The state has just recently started putting ratings on country road bridges. One day I was cruising down a gravel road I had been on before at about 50 mph with 4800 gallons of diesel on a tank wagon (55,000 lbs). I get to the bridge about 30 feet above the Blue River and suddenly it says 10 tons! Well, it still held me, but now I go another way, lol!

My old boss from when I was moving houses used to say "If it fits on the trailer, you can haul it." I am glad I don't do that any more.


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## les-or-more (Dec 18, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> i'm sure you guys are right in the "northern climate" there isn't any snow here... pretty rural and we don't have to many #######s that can't drive! if you don't have enough truck in front of what you're pulling you can't stop it, can't start it, can't control where its going to go. In those situations you probably need the brakes








A load of hay like this on snow covered roads without trailer brakes would be a real thrill ride! The truck is a 2500hd with a duramax and my custom snowmobile trailer I built in 2000.


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## jimbojango (Dec 18, 2010)

not to bash, but why isn't it a gooseneck? and i'm sure my truck would suck in the ice and snow anyway, its 2 wheel drive to start with. if its cold and i gotta feed cows i either use an 8 bale bumper trailer behind a tractor or put 6 bales on my 2 ton w/ hayrack and just dump them off the back


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## kstill361 (Dec 18, 2010)

KMB said:


> The tires I have on my truck are Cooper Discoverer ST's (LT265/75-16 C rated 6-ply). I get 15/16 mpg running empty (truck alone) and the last longer trip I took with it I got 14 mpg pulling a borrowed 6 x 10 utility trailer with a 600 lb ZTR mower on. I like the bigger tires, but I might go back to the 255/70-16's that came on the truck from the factory. My 4.6L is only rated at 220hp for 1997.
> 
> Yup, thumbs up for Timbrens!
> 
> Kevin



Maybe its the way I drive but even with the factory goodyear wrangler street tire that came on the truck, I only got 14/15 maybe I got a low rear end. So you know of 5.4l getting 17/18!!??


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## Beefie (Dec 18, 2010)

Hey KMB I just checked out the Kaufman website {They are a manufacture of trailers} And they have standard duty trailers that are all channel construction. They are what I based mine off of when I built it. I did not like the angle iron construction, just seemed to flimsy. I don't like box tubing because the moisture can't get away, and rots from the inside out. I would keep shopping for what you want, But remember resale value A stronger built trailer bought now will hold its resale value better than a inexpensive one. I have had many heavy loads on my trailer and has not flexed around like some of the angle iron trailers I use to borrow.

Just my 2cents take it for what its worth.

Beefie


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## les-or-more (Dec 18, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> not to bash, but why isn't it a gooseneck? and i'm sure my truck would suck in the ice and snow anyway, its 2 wheel drive to start with. if its cold and i gotta feed cows i either use an 8 bale bumper trailer behind a tractor or put 6 bales on my 2 ton w/ hayrack and just dump them off the back


I wanted a 4 place drive on drive off snowmobile trailer and the neck and the front ramps didn't work real well together. I didn't want to have multiple trailers so I built one to do muliple jobs. I worked for a custom fab. trailer co. for three years we built a lot of strange one off designs.


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## KMB (Dec 18, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> Not to throw gas on your guys tea party... but my 2003 3/4 ton dodge cummins pulls a 28' gooseneck with 16 1500# bales of hay w/o trailer brakes down the highway at 70 miles an hour. I attempt to not make a habit out of running down the highway like that, but it happens. I also pull a 14,000# tractor around on the same trailer and never worry about being able to stop it, always have before w/o problems. I pulled a 32' rv w/ a gooseneck adapter WITH brakes and it pulled harder than any other trailer I've ever pulled empty. It didn't stop any better and i am sure the brakes worked and kicked in. Maybe on you guys that don't live in the country where its flat and don't drive big boy trucks need all your rating or maybe your DOT requires it. Out here it really doesn't make much difference. almost everyone drives a 3/4 ton or 1 ton (usually dually) though. I also have one of those (dually) and if none of that stuff is big enough for weight i have a 2 ton and semi's.



I live in the country now and would love at least a 3/4 ton truck...but that's not going to happen for a while until I get rid of some other debt first. I've acquired some 'dumb' debt that I want/need to be rid of. Until then the half ton will have to do. I can (and have) handled loads of a full cord of Oak behind my half ton without trailer brakes, but I didn't like it. Now that I have access to a trailer with brakes, I like it a lot. Remember this is with a half ton rated only to pull 6600 lbs according to Ford's specs. You have access to 'lots more truck' than myself that are rated to handle the loads (that my half ton needs trailer brakes for) without the need of trailer brakes (ie: a 3/4 or 1 ton rated to 10K min. pulling a cord of Oak which would be around the 7K mark including trailer). Must be nice to have access to the bigger trucks and trailers. 

You mentioned semi's. I have my Class A CDL...although I haven't drove a tractor trailer unit in quite a while so I'm sure it would take a few shifts to get back in the groove. The stuff that Mntn Man hauls is quite impressive. Wow. The biggest equipment that I've hauled is combines, and pulled some grain Super B's for my friends farm back home in Canada. I've always liked trucks and tractor trailer units...ever since I was a little kid. How and why I got my Class A CDL (Class 1A in Alberta if I remember) is a bit of a long story. I draw house plans now...but someday I hope to get back to driving...Lord willing of course.

Kevin


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## jimbojango (Dec 18, 2010)

is there that much price difference in 3/4's vs. 1/2 tons? i figured the only difference was adding a cummins option... and to all you guys that have fords: I'd rather be Cummin than Strokin! HA! lol


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## KMB (Dec 18, 2010)

kstill361 said:


> Maybe its the way I drive but even with the factory goodyear wrangler street tire that came on the truck, I only got 14/15 maybe I got a low rear end. *So you know of 5.4l getting 17/18!!??*





KMB said:


> Makes sense to me. I learned (after I bought my truck) that guys were getting only about 2 mpg better with the 5.4L.



LOL...good catch. I went and reread my post. It should have read that "guys were getting only about 2 mpg *less* with the 5.4L" Meaning that for the extra hp, the gas mileage wasn't much worse...I should have looked for my truck with the 5.4L. With my OEM tires, I was getting about 17/18 mpg (IIRC), so the 5.4L guys were getting about 15/16 mpg.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 18, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> is there that much price difference in 3/4's vs. 1/2 tons? i figured the only difference was adding a cummins option... and to all you guys that have fords: I'd rather be Cummin than Strokin! HA! lol



As I posted earlier about the Blue Book value of my truck compared to the gasser 3/4 ton HD (same year model), there was about a $1000 difference. Now that is with the trucks having similar miles and condition. In real world buying and selling, I'm sure the price difference is more and I don't have the cash needed to step up yet. That kind of cash money is probably not much to some of you, but it is to me. I guess I could go with an older year model, if I could find what exactly I would want in my next truck.

As far as diesels go, it seems that diesels are worth about $2000 more than a big gasser in the same truck...according to Blue Book value (others might find different). For my limited amount of pulling/hauling, a big gasser (with the right gearing) would be good for me. Now if I regularly pulled heavy loads (hot shot hauling, hay bales and so on), a diesel would be a no-brainer.

Kevin


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## jimbojango (Dec 18, 2010)

the deisel is a no brainer because it gets 24 MPG and a gas piece of #### dodge get 17 maybe? my dads 1/2 ton w like a 4.3 or 4.7 or something only gets 15 and its 2wd. my dodge has 300,000 miles on it now, runs like a top and only put 1 $1000 sensor in it. thats it. no plugs, no wires, none of that crap to food with. just change brakes and fuel and oil.


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## KMB (Dec 18, 2010)

Beefie said:


> Hey KMB I just checked out the Kaufman website {They are a manufacture of trailers} And they have standard duty trailers that are all channel construction. They are what I based mine off of when I built it. I did not like the angle iron construction, just seemed to flimsy. I don't like box tubing because the moisture can't get away, and rots from the inside out. I would keep shopping for what you want, But remember resale value A stronger built trailer bought now will hold its resale value better than a inexpensive one. I have had many heavy loads on my trailer and has not flexed around like some of the angle iron trailers I use to borrow.
> 
> Just my 2cents take it for what its worth.
> 
> Beefie



Thanks for that Beefie. I hear ya on the C channel frames. Without boring you with details, I still think a utility type trailer with a properly supported tail/ramp gate would work best for me. I have seen some trailer manufacturers that do offer C channel frames as standard or as options on their utility trailers. Of course the price would be higher and I'm sure the trailer would weigh more. When I can get a trailer, I want to at least be able to haul a full cord with my current truck. With a heavier C channel framed 83" x 16' trailer, I would probably be at about 8K total (5500 approx for the Oak and 2500 approx. for the trailer), 1400 lbs over what my truck is rated for.

Kevin


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## Mntn Man (Dec 18, 2010)

KMB said:


> As far as diesels go, it seems that diesels are worth about $2000 more than a big gasser in the same truck...according to Blue Book value (others might find different). For my limited amount of pulling/hauling, a big gasser (with the right gearing) would be good for me. Now if I regularly pulled heavy loads (hot shot hauling, hay bales and so on), a diesel would be a no-brainer.Kevin



On a Chevy, going from a 6.0 gasser to a Duramax with Allison was $8400 (7200 for motor, 1200 for tranny) in 2007 (classic model). That was the last good year for the Duramax. If I'd had the money, it was easier and cheaper to buy one then. My friend bought his new for $38,000, which is about what they are asking now, if you can find one in very good condition. People are hanging on to them and the price hasn't come down much for being almost 4 years ago. I do not like the new model, engine or styling, especially the interior.

Dodge might have something with the Cummins, if they could find a tranny to put behind it. My cousin fried his, then got a beefed up after-market that went out at 1000 miles. They warrantied it and he has been okay since then, but he is pulling his camper way less.


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## KMB (Dec 18, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> the deisel is a no brainer because it gets 24 MPG and a gas piece of #### dodge get 17 maybe? my dads 1/2 ton w like a 4.3 or 4.7 or something only gets 15 and its 2wd. my dodge has 300,000 miles on it now, runs like a top and only put 1 $1000 sensor in it. thats it. no plugs, no wires, none of that crap to food with. just change brakes and fuel and oil.



Yup, something to think about. The gas mileage sounds good...but there's still the initial cost of buying one...and they do hold their value from what I have seen around here locally. I'm sure they're worth quite a bit more than my truck if I was to sell mine, and I've already posted about my situation on buying another truck.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 18, 2010)

Mntn Man said:


> On a Chevy, going from a 6.0 gasser to a Duramax with Allison was $8400 (7200 for motor, 1200 for tranny) in 2007 (classic model). That was the last good year for the Duramax. If I'd had the money, it was easier and cheaper to buy one then. My friend bought his new for $38,000, which is about what they are asking now, if you can find one in very good condition. People are hanging on to them and the price hasn't come down much for being almost 4 years ago. I do not like the new model, engine or styling, especially the interior.
> 
> Dodge might have something with the Cummins, if they could find a tranny to put behind it. My cousin fried his, then got a beefed up after-market that went out at 1000 miles. They warrantied it and he has been okay since then, but he is pulling his camper way less.



Lots to think about for sure. Thanks for that.

Kevin


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## Mntn Man (Dec 18, 2010)

KMB said:


> Thanks for that Beefie. I hear ya on the C channel frames. Without boring you with details, I still think a utility type trailer with a properly supported tail/ramp gate would work best for me. I have seen some trailer manufacturers that do offer C channel frames as standard or as options on their utility trailers. Of course the price would be higher and I'm sure the trailer would weigh more. When I can get a trailer, I want to at least be able to haul a full cord with my current truck. With a heavier C channel framed 83" x 16' trailer, I would probably be at about 8K total (5500 approx for the Oak and 2500 approx. for the trailer), 1400 lbs over what my truck is rated for.Kevin



I wouldn't buy one with angle instead of C channel. It will flex a lot more. You would be safer going 1400 lbs over rating than using a trailer that is going to act like a slinky.

Pulling my trailer at 11,000 lbs doesn't leave me feeling worried at all. You are not going very far anyway. I would go 16 inch centers over 24 inches also if possible. Minimal weight added for what it adds in strength. I have done and seen some things that tell me ratings err quite a bit on the safe side.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## KMB (Dec 18, 2010)

Mntn Man said:


> I wouldn't buy one with angle instead of C channel. It will flex a lot more. You would be safer going 1400 lbs over rating than using a trailer that is going to act like a slinky.
> 
> Pulling my trailer at 11,000 lbs doesn't leave me feeling worried at all. You are not going very far anyway. I would go 16 inch centers over 24 inches also if possible. Minimal weight added for what it adds in strength. *I have done and seen some things that tell me ratings err quite a bit on the safe side.*:hmm3grin2orange:



Ha...I bet you have.... I've been told and read the same thing before about ratings...but I'm sure there's a balance in there somewhere.

I'll have to look into this C channel frame business as far as pricing firstly and weight next. It'll take me longer to get a trailer, but it'll probably be worth it. I will say that the car hauler (Big Tex 70CH) that I use is rated for 7K and uses 5" x 3" x 3/16" angle for the frame. It seems to handle a full cord of Oak fine. I admit, I wouldn't know what to look for (or feel when pulling) as to see how much the trailer is flexing.

Kevin


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## Locust Cutter (Dec 19, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> probably not "pee down my leg" but i'd be impressed  I've drove some pretty good sized farm equpiment on sorry roads and bridges.



Gotta love backwoods KS "creek" bridges,... That said, I'd love a decent 18' car trailer, a 24'-28' Gooseneck flatbed and a an old Deuce and a half, or a 5 tonner,... That last would espcially be handy around a few friends ranches, while skidding trees out of creeks and draws,...


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## TMFARM 2009 (Dec 19, 2010)

I run a 2002 f250sd 5.4l 373 gears 4x4 and have scaled out repeatedly at 24,500lbs w/36' gooseneck full of hay..i hauled hay for neighbors all winter over 100 miles each way28 loads in all. I too thought that the gooseneck would be a better trailer for logging but found out that its a b**** to load that high up with logs.... So i use a 16' tandem axle flatbed trailer with 4x8's as ramps on side of trailer you can winch logs on and off easy...i have since sold gooseneck.... I will say i haven't had issues with the ford at all.... But can tell ya plenty of horror stories about chevy's and dodges i have owned....i would say go for a 12k small landscapers trailer and get a sway control hitch with load leveling you will be surprised what you can safely haul with a 1/2 ton...i had a 6.5x 14 worked great before i got stupid and sold it... The crappy trailer i own now works ok but is about worn out...


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## jimbojango (Dec 19, 2010)

duece and a half is to big for kansas creeks  except over there east of you guys going towards latham. lol. 2 ton is about enough. and i have a 28' gooseneck and it IS handy as hell. 18 foot car trailer... not so great but ok. i'm much more fond of my gooseneck for daily use because its just so much easier to pull and back up. as well as the fact if you don't overload it to bad it never walks you around the road.


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 19, 2010)

Was just at the Big Tex site. How is it that their tandem with 2 3500lb axles has a 5000lb GVWR? Frame made too light?

Ian


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## les-or-more (Dec 19, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Was just at the Big Tex site. How is it that their tandem with 2 3500lb axles has a 5000lb GVWR? Frame made too light?
> 
> Ian



My guess is it only has brakes on one axle it won't get full rating of 7k until both axles have brakes.


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## Locust Cutter (Dec 19, 2010)

TMFARM 2009 said:


> I run a 2002 f250sd 5.4l 373 gears 4x4 and have scaled out repeatedly at 24,500lbs w/36' gooseneck full of hay..i hauled hay for neighbors all winter over 100 miles each way28 loads in all. I too thought that the gooseneck would be a better trailer for logging but found out that its a b**** to load that high up with logs.... So i use a 16' tandem axle flatbed trailer with 4x8's as ramps on side of trailer you can winch logs on and off easy...i have since sold gooseneck.... I will say i haven't had issues with the ford at all.... But can tell ya plenty of horror stories about chevy's and dodges i have owned....i would say go for a 12k small landscapers trailer and get a sway control hitch with load leveling you will be surprised what you can safely haul with a 1/2 ton...i had a 6.5x 14 worked great before i got stupid and sold it... The crappy trailer i own now works ok but is about worn out...



Well I have (2) F-350 Superduties (1-2x4/5.4 stick and 1-4x4 6.0PSD/Torqeshift), a 1/2-ton Chebby v-6 (Better half's truck) and a '92 Toyota 4banger/5sp 2wd. The Toy is my 27mpg wheelbarrow/go-cart/grocery getter/ wood fetcher (goes where the Superduties don't fit and is already all banged to hell). The gas F-350 has pulled a lot of weight and done all right, but I probably only have about another 50K before I'm looking at motor issues on it. The diesel is broken currently but will be fixed when the tax return gets here (Derby Dealer "forgot" to mention a 'few' problems,.... (about $6K worth).


The car trailer would be nice in that any of the full-size pickups could pull it for a variety of reasons. The Gooseneck is what I really want for all of the reasons that Jimbjango mentioned,... I also have access to a few tractors, so loading to gooseneck height isn't a major concern for me.

The Deuce would be nice because I'm mainly cutting in the Flint Hills, in between Leon and Beaumont and the 2 main wooded pastures that I'm selectively thinning have large/deep creeks and draws that can be a mother in any vehicle, not to mention when your trying to skid trees out of them in order to cut on semi level ground. This is especially tough when I get into his big Blackjack Oaks and Hedges,.... I could buy an ok 1969 C-50 Chevy flatbed off of a friend with a 350/4sp (split diff), but with the work it needs to be safe and street legal (my standards beyond what the State has to say about it) I think I could buy a decent old deuce for about the same or a bit less. Now a 6BT Cummins in that Chevy however, and that might be a different story...


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## jimbojango (Dec 19, 2010)

hey locust, a C-50 isn't a 5 ton truck, its a LIGHT 2 ton or 1 and 3/4 ton. I have a C70 and its the HEAVY 2 ton and its a lot stouter than a c60.  but they are BAD ASS for skidding logs. If she won't do it a 4650 john deere will   HAHAHHA! and if that ain't big enough an 895 versitile is but they are a pain to get anywhere. Where are you cutting by Beaumont? out on one of the ranches? Hamlin is selling Rock Creek Ranch for 11.5 million, you could buy it ... its between douglas and latham though!


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## Mntn Man (Dec 19, 2010)

A question for those who haul logs home:

Why don't you chunk it up and load it as rounds? If I can, I split it out there and haul it home split and leave the mess out in the trees. Just wondering what is different about where you guys do it.


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## jimbojango (Dec 19, 2010)

I haul it home in logs because it is so much faster to load them whole and make 1 trip home then it is to haul a splitter down and make multiple trips. i can get TONS of wood on my gooseneck at once where as i hate putting sides on any trailer and i can cut a full day without getting tired. Then split a full day instead of working half the day and then the other half.


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## jackel440 (Dec 19, 2010)

Mntn Man said:


> A question for those who haul logs home:
> 
> Why don't you chunk it up and load it as rounds? If I can, I split it out there and haul it home split and leave the mess out in the trees. Just wondering what is different about where you guys do it.



We are clearing 8 acres of woods for a farmer now.It's faster to haul logs home than to try and cut rounds or split it.I can haul back up to 30' long logs on my deckover.Then go get another load.Cut it and split it at home later when the job is done.If we didn't do it this way we would be having a huge fire and burning the whole woods clearing right there do to time constraints.This way we get to save the wood for ourselves,and get the job done quicker


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## wvlogger (Dec 19, 2010)

I personally think the double frame I beam is the way to go on something heavy. But there is the only downfall, weight. I am unsure if anyone even makes these any more. My car trailer is single beam but it is a 6" tall by 2" wide by 1/4" thick. tandem axles rated at 7000# a peice, and 10 ply tires. I tow it all with a F-150 With a 4.2. (i know i am a fool) And it pulls it all just fine


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## jimbojango (Dec 19, 2010)

we've decided that it doesn't matter what type of construction it has at this point. it needs a stabilizer bar down through the center. Most of them are made out of 4 inch pipe and run the length of the trailer


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## Mntn Man (Dec 19, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. I figured it had to be something like that. I don't really have a means to move logs so it is best for me to haul splits home. The only downfall is that I am usually too worn out to do anything with it when I get home, so it stays on the trailer until I get to it. Right now I have my 20 foot trailer full, a pick up box full, and I just came home with my ATV trailer full of oak that will need split. A dump trailer would rock!


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## Captain Crunch (Dec 19, 2010)

les-or-more said:


> My guess is it only has brakes on one axle it won't get full rating of 7k until both axles have brakes.



If you look at the trailer parts suppliers, you will see there is no 2500 lb axle. They jump from 2k to 3.5k. 

Ratings also sometimes follow local regs. For instance, in WI, trailers under 3k do not require brakes or license/title. So we have lots of trailers here built as 3.5k but with 2990 lb gvw stickers. 

Not saying this is the deal with the Big Tex 5k, you could ask them.


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## les-or-more (Dec 19, 2010)

Captain Crunch said:


> If you look at the trailer parts suppliers, you will see there is no 2500 lb axle. They jump from 2k to 3.5k.
> 
> Ratings also sometimes follow local regs. For instance, in WI, trailers under 3k do not require brakes or license/title. So we have lots of trailers here built as 3.5k but with 2990 lb gvw stickers.
> 
> Not saying this is the deal with the Big Tex 5k, you could ask them.



The regs may have changed since I left the trailer co. I used to work for but, then 3k and up had to have at least 1 brake axle. A 3500# idler gave you a 2990 rating. A 3500# brake axle gave you a 3.5k rating. A brake and an idler 5k and 2 brake axles 7k.


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## Locust Cutter (Dec 19, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> hey locust, a C-50 isn't a 5 ton truck, its a LIGHT 2 ton or 1 and 3/4 ton. I have a C70 and its the HEAVY 2 ton and its a lot stouter than a c60.  but they are BAD ASS for skidding logs. If she won't do it a 4650 john deere will   HAHAHHA! and if that ain't big enough an 895 versitile is but they are a pain to get anywhere. Where are you cutting by Beaumont? out on one of the ranches? Hamlin is selling Rock Creek Ranch for 11.5 million, you could buy it ... its between douglas and latham though!



Only 11.5M??? Hell thats pocket change,...LOL Yeah I've got access to 2 ranches out that way, a 1400 acre one up NW of the town of Eureka and then some various bits of land just around my house NE of Udall and some farm ground out around the Zenda/Harper/Kingman/Norwich area.
-I realize that the C-50/60 isn't a 5 ton by any means, but I could pick it up for about $500. I would then have to put another $1500-3000 in it though to fix the interior (gauges/controls), tires, brakes, clutch and rust. The engine would be a different matter (oil bath 350) but it still runs right now,... I wish that I had access to my Wife's Uncle's 825 or 830 (whatever the older model is) Versatile. It's handy for dragging a lot of things.

We usually try to cut into trunk lengths and then drag that back home. Then I can deal with the finish cutting/splitting on my own terms later on. I get WAY more done that way and make much more efficient use of my time in the field hat way.


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 19, 2010)

Scroll down to the drawings. One is their 5K and the other is their 7K. Check out the tongue.

5K

7K


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## SkyP (Dec 19, 2010)

Also the 7k is a pipe top rail with stouter uprights. Frame is bigger too.
The 18' version of the pipe rail is 510 lbs heavier than the 18' angle rail. Much more rigid trailer.


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## jimbojango (Dec 19, 2010)

Locust- 500 for a c50 is a STEAL no matter what if it moves! i spent 500 on brakes for my c70 without buying drums or shoes  just had to put cylinders and seals and fluid and kits in them (all avilible from truck parts and orielly's)

I have some buddies that trap over around Sharon... screw that mess  I have plenty of tree's about 5 miles south of the kansas/oklahoma line south of South Haven and west of Braman OK if you ever run out of tree's 

My C70 does have a 427 Tall deck which lets her run 70 and never even moan. Had 30,000 miles when i bought it. It is a 1979 model though, so its got a lot better interior and such. I have saw them sell for about $4000 w/ a hoist and 16' bed.


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## Locust Cutter (Dec 20, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> Locust- 500 for a c50 is a STEAL no matter what if it moves! i spent 500 on brakes for my c70 without buying drums or shoes  just had to put cylinders and seals and fluid and kits in them (all avilible from truck parts and orielly's)
> 
> I have some buddies that trap over around Sharon... screw that mess  I have plenty of tree's about 5 miles south of the kansas/oklahoma line south of South Haven and west of Braman OK if you ever run out of tree's
> 
> My C70 does have a 427 Tall deck which lets her run 70 and never even moan. Had 30,000 miles when i bought it. It is a 1979 model though, so its got a lot better interior and such. I have saw them sell for about $4000 w/ a hoist and 16' bed.



That would be pretty nice. I've heard a lot of good things about that 427 Tall Deck (Always been a Chevy (prior to 2008 anyway) man myself). I still would like a couple of trailers, but I am thinking about that truck. It may be a C-60 or bigger as it is either a 18 or 20' x 8' bed, I just don't remember the length exactly. Either way We've had 3 tons of bricks on it before and it just chugged on down the road. It always starts, burns some oil and will still run about 75 or so,... The speedometer is broken, but I was running chase in a '94 ram and paced it going about 75-80mph. Either way it's a lot faster than I'd care to go in it,...


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## jimbojango (Dec 20, 2010)

ah hell, i'd drive mine 80 with a 30 foot float trailer loaded behind it.  for 500 bucks though, its a steal.. i'd buy it and let you use it damn near


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## Locust Cutter (Dec 20, 2010)

jimbojango said:


> ah hell, i'd drive mine 80 with a 30 foot float trailer loaded behind it.  for 500 bucks though, its a steal.. i'd buy it and let you use it damn near



Yeah I may have to buy it,... Now if I can just find a great deal on a Hillsboro, PJ, Kaufman or Diamon C 25-30' gooseneck. Either way it'll have to wait until I can get my Diesel Ford fixed, but hopefully by the end of the year ('11). If you ever need help cutting or otherwise, let me know!
-Bryan


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## KMB (Dec 20, 2010)

Mntn Man said:


> I don't really have a means to move logs so it is best for me to haul splits home. The only downfall is that I am usually too worn out to do anything with it when I get home, so it stays on the trailer until I get to it. Right now I have my 20 foot trailer full, a pick up box full, and I just came home with my ATV trailer full of oak that will need split. A dump trailer would rock!



I'm in the same boat with no machines to move anything other than rounds. Everything is done manually. Yes, a dump trailer would be beautiful!

I have to be really motivated and in the right mind frame (good day of cutting) to cut and fill the trailer and then come home and unload it right away...especially if the rounds are in the 30" range. A bad day of cutting (got to hot, for example) in the southern summer equals 'stopping' the truck and trailer in the yard, leaving everything in the truck, into the house and laying on the floor in the A/C.

Kevin


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## Locust Cutter (Dec 20, 2010)

KMB said:


> I'm in the same boat with no machines to move anything other than rounds. Everything is done manually. Yes, a dump trailer would be beautiful!
> 
> I have to be really motivated and in the right mind frame (good day of cutting) to cut and fill the trailer and then come home and unload it right away...especially if the rounds are in the 30" range. A bad day of cutting (got to hot, for example) in the southern summer equals 'stopping' the truck and trailer in the yard, leaving everything in the truck, into the house and laying on the floor in the A/C.
> 
> Kevin



:agree2: Thats why I try (when Uncle Sam lets me be in town anyway) to cut all of my wood in the winter and then split into the spring. Cutting in 90+ heat with 90%+ humidity is hard on the operator, the equipment and the desire to cut in general. I usually try to empty the truck/trailer immediately after to give the springs a break, but, some days it's just not happening.


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## KMB (Dec 20, 2010)

Locust Cutter said:


> :agree2: Thats why I try (when Uncle Sam lets me be in town anyway) to cut all of my wood in the winter and then split into the spring. Cutting in 90+ heat with 90%+ humidity is hard on the operator, the equipment and the desire to cut in general. I usually try to empty the truck/trailer immediately after to give the springs a break, but, some days it's just not happening.



:agree2: I've been trying for at least 2 years to do my cutting in the 'southern winter' and early spring...but work, weather (cutting area to wet to get to or raining when I have found/made time to cut), or something else pushes me to be cutting in the summer months. I'm trying this year again to get most of my cutting done before it gets hot again...we'll see. 

Good point about unloading immediately. That should give me the motivation to get it done.

Kevin


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 20, 2010)

Don't remember if these were mentioned, but have you looked at the Lone Wolf Trailers? Seem like a middle of the road tandem.

4" channel tongue, 3x4x1/4 angle frame. Local guy quoted me $1795 for a 14'x77" with one braked axle. $150 more for the second set of brakes. Problem with that is 6% sales tax.

Ian


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 20, 2010)

After doing the numbers, the Lone Wolf may not be such a good deal after all. Comparing that to the Kaufman 14x82 wood deck equipment trailer is apples and oranges.

Kaufman.. 14x82, 4" channel tongue and frame, 3" channel cross members 24 on center. Both axles braked. $1990 + $200 delivery = $2190 (My Kubota dealer will take delivery and unload it for me no charge)

Lone Wolf 14x77, 4" channel tongue, 3x4x1/4 frame, $1795 + $150 for brakes on second axle + 6% tax = $2061

$129 more for a much stouter trailer. No contest. Only thing to consider is weight. If the Lone Wolf is good enough, it's lighter to tow. The Kaufman is 2300lbs.. no idea on the lone wolf.

Ian


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## KMB (Dec 20, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> After doing the numbers, the Lone Wolf may not be such a good deal after all. Comparing that to the Kaufman 14x82 wood deck equipment trailer is apples and oranges.
> 
> Kaufman.. 14x82, 4" channel tongue and frame, 3" channel cross members 24 on center. Both axles braked. $1990 + $200 delivery = $2190 (My Kubota dealer will take delivery and unload it for me no charge)
> 
> ...



Decisions, decisions. The 2300 lbs. is something to consider for sure.

Looks like a nice trailer. I'd be interested to know if the Lone Wolf offers a Bulldog hitch. Looks like the closest dealer to me is over 200 miles...a little to far. In my research, it looks like I have quite a selection of trailer builders with in about 2 hrs. away in Texas...just great...more to choose from. I'd rather have just a few to choose from...easier on my brain .

Kevin


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 20, 2010)

Ok, if you compare apples to apples... Kaufman's 16' landscape trailer. 3x3 3/16 angle frame and the 16' version (no 14 to compare) is still $1990+$200 delivery. I asked about a 14 but they said no change in price. All the steel is pre-cut. They would just have some waste when they build it.

The Lone Wolf's 3x4x1/4 angle is the better frame when compared like that.

Ian


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## Locust Cutter (Dec 20, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Ok, if you compare apples to apples... Kaufman's 16' landscape trailer. 3x3 3/16 angle frame and the 16' version (no 14 to compare) is still $1990+$200 delivery. I asked about a 14 but they said no change in price. All the steel is pre-cut. They would just have some waste when they build it.
> 
> The Lone Wolf's 3x4x1/4 angle is the better frame when compared like that.
> 
> Ian



Well, have fun with the angle frame trailers,... I've broken one by overloading it a bit (didnt look like it) and snapped the neck clean off. I've similarly overloaded C channel trailers (wet Hedge and Locust is deceptively heavy) and they never seemed to care. Either way I did have to overload it to make it happen, so Kevin, with your attention to detail, you'll probably be safe. Knowing my proclivities and tendency to just say screw it and try to get it done, I'd like a beefier trailer with a bit more strength as a safety net. Good luck whichever way you go.
-Bryan


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## KMB (Dec 20, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Ok, if you compare apples to apples... Kaufman's 16' landscape trailer. 3x3 3/16 angle frame and the 16' version (no 14 to compare) is still $1990+$200 delivery. I asked about a 14 but they said no change in price. All the steel is pre-cut. They would just have some waste when they build it.
> 
> The Lone Wolf's 3x4x1/4 angle is the better frame when compared like that.
> 
> Ian



Ian, are you wanting a tail gate or slide in ramps? How about the coupler...Bulldog or Atwood?

Regarding the Trailmaster I mentioned in post #7 (83" x 16' utility trailer). Standard items I liked (nothing special really) are the Bulldog coupler, wrap tongue (4" channel), wiring in conduit, treated floor, stake pockets (4) and LED's are a nice touch. The other option I would get is the 2nd brake axle (with the 3" x 4" x 1/4" angle frame, 48" tail gate, extra supports on the tail gate, and spare tire mount). I was quoted $2022 out-the-door from a dealer about an hour away.

I've done some thinking about the frames. Big Tex and Kaufman trailers use 5" x 3" angle (x 3/16" for Big Tex and x 1/4" for Kaufman) for their 14K rated utility trailers. I would say that they are both 'big' trailer builders, and to me that says something because they have to (or should) stand behind their trailers and they have a rep to uphold. I do know that other 'big' name builders do use C channel frames on their 14K (and also down to 7K) rated utility trailers. Each builder has their reasons.

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 20, 2010)

Locust Cutter said:


> Well, have fun with the angle frame trailers,... I've broken one by overloading it a bit (didnt look like it) and snapped the neck clean off. I've similarly overloaded C channel trailers (wet Hedge and Locust is deceptively heavy) and they never seemed to care. Either way I did have to overload it to make it happen, *so Kevin, with your attention to detail, you'll probably be safe*.
> 
> -Bryan



Bryan, yep, I guess that is the way I am . I get that from my dad who has passed on. I admit I'm not much of a big risk taker. If there's a middle of the road on something, I usually lean to the safer side. Again, I go back to my weak link...my truck. I think I've explained myself enough already on what I'm trying to achieve. Y'all are gonna run me off one day .



Locust Cutter said:


> Knowing my proclivities and tendency to just say screw it and try to get it done, I'd like a beefier trailer with a bit more strength as a safety net.



Ya got rep for that one.

Kevin


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 20, 2010)

I don't have a preference between tailgate and ramps. The tailgate would just save me having to make a back wall. I'm considering calling LW and seeing if leaving off the tube sides in favor of a flat bed with stake pockets would save some cash. I'll be building sides for it anyway to either extend what's there or in the case of a flat bed, make it whole height. I want 24" sides. Heck, I could just custom order it with 24" tube sides that I just have to side with boards.

I don't know what kind of coupler other than the LW is for a 2" ball and the Kaufman is 2-5/16. I'll call tomorrow.

Ian


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 20, 2010)

KMB said:


> Again, I go back to my weak link...my truck



Yep, that's where I'm at... big hefty trailer means less wood on it before reaching 6600.

Ian


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## KMB (Dec 20, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I don't have a preference between tailgate and ramps. The tailgate would just save me having to make a back wall. I'm considering calling LW and seeing if leaving off the tube sides in favor of a flat bed with stake pockets would save some cash. I'll be building sides for it anyway to either extend what's there or in the case of a flat bed, make it whole height. I want 24" sides. Heck, I could just custom order it with 24" tube sides that I just have to side with boards.
> 
> I don't know what kind of coupler other than the LW is for a 2" ball and the Kaufman is 2-5/16. I'll call tomorrow.
> 
> Ian



24" high uprights would be nice to just add plywood (or boards) to...and I have thought about pricing that option, but I think I would have use for the lower uprights when hauling other things.

Kevin


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 20, 2010)

24" detachable tube sides that sit in stake pockets. 

Ian


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## KMB (Dec 20, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> 24" detachable tube sides that sit in stake pockets.
> 
> Ian



Ah-haaaa...that would be the way to do it for sure, yup. 

Kevin


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## Locust Cutter (Dec 21, 2010)

KMB said:


> Bryan, yep, I guess that is the way I am . I get that from my dad who has passed on. I admit I'm not much of a big risk taker. If there's a middle of the road on something, I usually lean to the safer side. Again, *I go back to my weak link...my truck.* I think I've explained myself enough already on what I'm trying to achieve. Y'all are gonna run me off one day .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I completely understand where you're at. For about 5 years my wood truck, (my only 4-wheeled vehicle for that matter) was a '97 F-150 2wd 5-spd with the 4.2 V-6 and a 3.42 rearend (my friend custom ordered that way and I bought it for $700 wrecked). I had over a ton of wood on it on several occasions and it did VERY well for what it was. It wouldn't pull a trailer very well. It could do a 16-18' wood trailer, but it wasn't happy about it and forget backing it up a hill so configured,.... You'd smoke the clutch trying. I love my 2 Superduties, but I do miss that truck, it did a lot more than any 1/2 ton probably should. I'm with you on the safety aspect (much to my Wife's frustration) until I get mad, then it tends to shift towards a tactical Mad Max approach (not always the best idea depending on the circumstances) until I regain my composure, or finish the job. Whichever comes first. 

You might look at the single axle PJ's, Kevin, they're one of the better built trailers that I've seen across the build/size spectrum; if you've got the $$$. I don't so that's why I'm in the "need one (or 3) category".:hmm3grin2orange:


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## KMB (Dec 21, 2010)

Locust Cutter said:


> I'm with you on the safety aspect (much to my Wife's frustration) until I get mad, then it tends to shift towards a tactical Mad Max approach (not always the best idea depending on the circumstances) until I regain my composure, or finish the job. Whichever comes first.



Thanks again for the chuckle after the "until I get mad..." 

When I get 'very frustrated' (ya, that's it...) at something or a job, I start doing stuff at a faster, intense pace...but it's still controlled. Sometimes I want to 'dispatch' of an item, but quickly I think of the consequences (even while in the 'very frustrated' state) and what it will cost to replace the item, and the moment will pass...usually . 



Locust Cutter said:


> You might look at the single axle PJ's, Kevin, they're one of the better built trailers that I've seen across the build/size spectrum; if you've got the $$$. I don't so that's why I'm in the "need one (or 3) category".:hmm3grin2orange:



Now you have went and done it...another idea for my poor brain.  

I have thought about a 6' or 77" x 10' single axle and along with my truck bed to be able to haul my goal of at least 1 full cord of Oak. But using 5500 lbs. approx for a cord of Oak, a 3500 lb. axle trailer (weighing about 1000 lbs.) and with not much payload on my half ton, that combo wouldn't work. PJ Trailers do have a C channel single axle utility trailer that has a 5200 lb. axle option. Would the trailer rating go up to 5200 lbs. with a brake axle? Anybody know how that works? I might have to get an estimate on that trailer...but I'm sure it will be out there out of reach. I'd still like to know for curiosity.

Kevin


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## KD57 (Dec 21, 2010)

Since I quit building trailers and buy them, I get the PJ's. Built really nice, and the frames are powder coated, not just painted. I pull with a F-350 diesel, my 5.4 1/2 ton won't get out of it's own way, and I have a 3.73 ratio. I have a 5x10 PJ, (channel frame BTW) and when it's full of wood, that's all the 1/2 ton wants. 
One other thing, most trailer mfr's also put cheap tires on them, so if you intend on pulling at max gvwr, I would suggest upgrading the tires. Quality mfr's usually use a better tire, and don't need upgrading. I have seen some of the cheapo trailers flatten out the tires before reaching max loading for the trailer.


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## Locust Cutter (Dec 21, 2010)

KD57 said:


> Since I quit building trailers and buy them, I get the PJ's. Built really nice, and the frames are powder coated, not just painted. I pull with a F-350 diesel, my 5.4 1/2 ton won't get out of it's own way, and I have a 3.73 ratio. I have a 5x10 PJ, (channel frame BTW) and when it's full of wood, that's all the 1/2 ton wants.
> One other thing, most trailer mfr's also put cheap tires on them, so if you intend on pulling at max gvwr, I would suggest upgrading the tires. Quality mfr's usually use a better tire, and don't need upgrading. I have seen some of the cheapo trailers flatten out the tires before reaching max loading for the trailer.



I agree about the tires, most are crappy to begin with, but after replacement make for a decent trailer. A friend back home has one that he tows with a Jeep Liberty diesel,... loaded up with river rock out of the flint hills, the Jeep knows it's there, but it pulls nicely. He put a weight distribution hitch on it and it tows like a dream for a single axle trailer,... 

Kevin,
I think you're well on the way to making a sound decision (and it's your $$$ either way). I'll give you a bit of advice that my Dad gave me a long time ago that has served me well: Buy the best tool that you can afford for any job that you plan on doing more than once,... That would definitely go for trailer and tires. You might pay a bit more for the PJ or a similar quality model elsewhere, but the value, peace of mind and longevity you will get in return for the investment will greatly outweigh the initial cost. Save up, eat Ramen noodles, whatever you've got to do, but do it and do it right and you'll be glad you did. 
I suspect that you'll probably have your trailer longer than you'll have this truck. Given the supposition that you'll buy a more capable truck to replace it with, the mild weight penalty you'll pay now (with the better trailer) likely won't be noticed with a slightly more powerful truck. My 5.4 1-ton will drag a 20' Sided landscape trailer with about 2 FULL cords of Oak on it 70mph just fine (on flat ground). It's not a diesel (my diesel is broken currently), but it does very well. You find a decent older Ford 460 or a newer V-10 250 or 350, you'll do all you ever want to do. Just don't buy an 8.1l V-8 Chevy: pulls like a freight train, fuel mileage of an oil tanker,.... (and I'm a Chevy Guy). Sorry for the Book,....
-Bryan


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## KMB (Dec 21, 2010)

Bryan, great advice...and I didn't mind the 'book' . I'm an info junky when it comes to researching stuff. I'm looking at every option and trying to find the balance in it all. Thanks.

Kevin


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 21, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> 24" detachable tube sides that sit in stake pockets.
> 
> Ian



Talked to them today about detachable sides. He said that the attached rails are structural and in order to make them detachable, they would have to beef the frame up to 3x5x1/4 and that drives the price up to the point that I would opt for the Kaufman. Bumping the rails up to 24" is a $100 option, so that makes it total out at $2161 vs the $2190 for the Kaufman. There would be the added expense of building sides for it, but since I would be still adding wood to the rails of the LW, the only real added expense would be the uprights.

In talking to Kaufman, they were trying to sway me to a 10k trailer when I told him that I would end up putting 5k of wood on it at least occasionally. He said 5 or 6K of wood on a 7k trailer that weighs 2300lbs empty was pushing the envelope. I can only assume that a 10K trailer weighs even more.

So... do I get the better build flat bed Kaufman and sacrifice payload, or for a negligible cost savings, get the lesser angle trailer that has more headroom for payload?  I can only assume that the better built trailer would handle the occasional overload better than the angle version.

On to the PJ site...
Ian

Ian


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 21, 2010)

Hey... the PJ channel utility comes with detachable sides. I called the local (50mi) dealer for a quote, but they're basically shut down for the holidays. She said that she had to go in tomorrow anyway to do some paperwork and would email me a quote. I asked for 24" sides, brakes on both axles and if they could upgrade the 2.5x2.5 cross members from 3/16 to 1/4. It has a 4" channel tongue and frame and weighs 1400lbs in stock form.

Ian


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## KMB (Dec 21, 2010)

I've been to the PJ site (and others) many times today. They have lots of options. I priced the 83" x 12' single axle channel utility (U8) with a 5200lb. brake axle, straight deck w/4' gate and a spare tire mount. $1995. I'm not sure if the fella heard me correctly...some folks have a little trouble with my 'so called' Canadian accent . My thought on the trailer would be to get a little over 2/3 of a cord on the trailer and the rest on my truck...but I gotta think long term about my next truck and I would probably have need for a longer deck.

I think the 83" x 16' tandem axle channel utility (U8) with 2 - 5200lb. brake axles, straight deck w/4' HD gate, 16" o.c. crossmembers, and a spare tire mount would be almost perfect for my current situation...and for the future. Not sure if I'd opt for the 2-5/16" coupler and 7K jack. The site says that the base 83" x 16' trailer weight is estimated at 1540lbs. Not sure how much weight would be added with the options I listed. I'm afraid if I price this one, I might have to be sitting down...

Kevin


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## KMB (Dec 21, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Hey... the PJ channel utility comes with detachable sides. I called the local (50mi) dealer for a quote, but they're basically shut down for the holidays. She said that she had to go in tomorrow anyway to do some paperwork and would email me a quote. I asked for 24" sides, brakes on both axles and if they could upgrade the 2.5x2.5 cross members from 3/16 to 1/4. It has a 4" channel tongue and frame and weighs 1400lbs in stock form.
> 
> Ian



Sounds like that might be the perfect trailer for you. Hope the price works out for you.

Kevin


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 21, 2010)

Didn't notice some of the options... 24" expanded metal sides was one, and 16 on center cross members was another. the detachable sides are an option too, thought it was standard at first.

Anyway, I expect after all the options I want, it will be too much green for my wallet. We shall see.

Ian


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## KMB (Dec 21, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Didn't notice some of the options... 24" expanded metal sides was one, and 16 on center cross members was another. the detachable sides are an option too, thought it was standard at first.
> 
> Ian



If I understand what the site has it looks like the 2" x 2" removable side rails are standard, and the 2" pipetop removable side rails are an option.



Haywire Haywood said:


> Anyway, I expect after all the options I want, it will be too much green for my wallet. We shall see.



I'm expecting the same thing when I call...but at least I'll know.

Kevin


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## les-or-more (Dec 21, 2010)

<a href="http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/les-or-more/welding%20projects/?action=view&amp;current=CCI01242009_00002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/les-or-more/welding%20projects/CCI01242009_00002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

If you guys are going that heavy you might as well go to an 84"x16'+2'.
You would get 8" channel frame 3" channel crossmembers 6k axles and 12k jack. 2400#


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## KMB (Dec 22, 2010)

les-or-more said:


> If you guys are going that heavy you might as well go to an 84"x16'+2'.
> You would get 8" channel frame 3" channel crossmembers 6k axles and 12k jack. 2400#



By your picture, I'm guessing that you're suggesting a pintle setup...correct? What trailer builder are you referring to with those specs? 16' + 2' must mean a 2' dovetail. The trailer I use has a dovetail and it will usually scrape a little at the back on the slope of the approach into my yard. It is nice for manually rolling on big rounds, but I still don't think I want one (dovetail).

Kevin


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## les-or-more (Dec 22, 2010)

KMB said:


> By your picture, I'm guessing that you're suggesting a pintle setup...correct? What trailer builder are you referring to with those specs? 16' + 2' must mean a 2' dovetail. The trailer I use has a dovetail and it will usually scrape a little at the back on the slope of the approach into my yard. It is nice for manually rolling on big rounds, but I still don't think I want one (dovetail).
> 
> Kevin



No Kevin I was just being a wise guy, I mainly built bigger trailers we put adjustable couplers on, so I kept a pintle ring on my welder to move them around with. Most left with a 2-5/16 coupler, I posted the pic so you could see a very popular option, a locking chain box. The dovetail was about 50-50 those lo-pro trailers aren't very high to begin with, so many opted for the flat deck.


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## KMB (Dec 22, 2010)

les-or-more said:


> No Kevin I was just being a wise guy, I mainly built bigger trailers we put adjustable couplers on, so I kept a pintle ring on my welder to move them around with. Most left with a 2-5/16 coupler, I posted the pic so you could see a very popular option, a locking chain box. The dovetail was about 50-50 those lo-pro trailers aren't very high to begin with, so many opted for the flat deck.



LOL...understood. Regarding the locking chain box...I'm such a pack rat that a box like that would be full of everything else besides chains. It would be a nice option for sure.

Kevin


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## les-or-more (Dec 22, 2010)

KMB said:


> LOL...understood. Regarding the locking chain box...I'm such a pack rat that a box like that would be full of everything else besides chains. It would be a nice option for sure.
> 
> Kevin



There seemed to be a universal theme when people were ordering a trailer that their chains and ratchet straps grew legs and walked off somewhere.LOL
That trailer design was very popular as it allowed a lot of options and good payload capacity.


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## les-or-more (Dec 22, 2010)

<a href="http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/les-or-more/welding%20projects/?action=view&amp;current=CCF12162009_00007-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/les-or-more/welding%20projects/CCF12162009_00007-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


Here is same design with a 5" frame with side rails and without the chainbox and heavy duty jack.


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## jimbojango (Dec 22, 2010)

straps and rachets stolen or used for somethign else off a trailer! no way!!!!!!!! lol... i keep putting them in my tool boxes on my trucks... and keep buying more cause i can't find them when i want to use them


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## KMB (Dec 22, 2010)

les-or-more said:


> Here is same design with a 6" frame with side rails and without the chainbox and heavy duty jack.



What did that trailer weigh?

Kevin


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## les-or-more (Dec 22, 2010)

<a href="http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/les-or-more/welding%20projects/?action=view&amp;current=CCI01242009_00003.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/les-or-more/welding%20projects/CCI01242009_00003.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Here is another shot of the same trailer, we hung most of them on the scale but I only wrote down the weights of a few of them in my notes. The majority fell between 2200-2500# depending on how they were spec'ed out.


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## kstill361 (Dec 22, 2010)

les-or-more said:


> <a href="http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/les-or-more/welding%20projects/?action=view&amp;current=CCI01242009_00003.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/les-or-more/welding%20projects/CCI01242009_00003.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
> 
> Here is another shot of the same trailer, we hung most of them on the scale but I only wrote down the weights of a few of them in my notes. The majority fell between 2200-2500# depending on how they were spec'ed out.




I see trailer frames made from channel with flanges in and others out, whats the reasoning behind this if any ?


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## les-or-more (Dec 22, 2010)

kstill361 said:


> I see trailer frames made from channel with flanges in and others out, whats the reasoning behind this if any ?



We made them both ways normally with the flanges out for speed, unless the customer wanted them in or we needed the side flat to mount a rub rail or something.


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## Haywire Haywood (Jan 3, 2011)

Holidays are over and I got my quote today. PJ 14x77 tandem axle trailer, both axles braked, 24" sides with expanded metal, 16" on center cross members, ramp gate. Price? A mere $2800. Not gonna happen.

They said that they could sell me essentially the same trailer made by Lawrimore but with paint instead of powder coat for $2100. Lawrimore's website is down at the moment, I'm curious to see how they're built.

Ian


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## Mntn Man (Jan 3, 2011)

KMB said:


> Nice trailer you have there. Any idea of how much wood is on there? Kevin



I finally got the trailer unloaded this weekend (all the others too). I had about 2.25 cords on there. Two stacks 16'x6'x18 inches and then some.


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## KMB (Jan 3, 2011)

Mntn Man said:


> I finally got the trailer unloaded this weekend (all the others too). I had about 2.25 cords on there. Two stacks 16'x6'x18 inches and then some.



Good load! So...2.25 cords x 5000 lb/cord (roughly...don't know what kind of wood you were hauling) = 11,250 lbs...you were making your trailer and truck earn their keep for sure. That's alot of stacking...bet you were glad when it was done.

Kevin


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## jimbojango (Jan 3, 2011)

You guys and your trailers  i just stick a cord on my pickup. Its only a 3 foot tall stack and another cord in a 1 ton pickup bed trailer. Also 3 feet tall. If I had another pickup bed trailer I thought was road worthy I'd stack another cord on it and my poor little dodge would still pull it! BTW does a cord of oak really weigh in close to 5000 pounds? my pickup doesnt think it wieghs near that, maybe 3500. Might just be because its loaded so evenly.


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## KMB (Jan 3, 2011)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Holidays are over and I got my quote today. PJ 14x77 tandem axle trailer, both axles braked, 24" sides with expanded metal, 16" on center cross members, ramp gate. Price? A mere $2800. Not gonna happen.
> 
> They said that they could sell me essentially the same trailer made by Lawrimore but with paint instead of powder coat for $2100. Lawrimore's website is down at the moment, I'm curious to see how they're built.
> 
> Ian



I've sat down and written out some specs that I would like for trailers from a few companies, and in the next day or so, I'll call and get a few quotes. I want to get 2 from PJ, one from Big Tex, one from Load Trail and one from Trailmaster. I'm sure I'll need to be sitting down for all of them except maybe Trailmaster. 

I probably haven't looked hard enough, but it looks like 5200 lb. axles are only spec'd for 83" wide trailers. Does anybody know if 5200 lb. axles come narrower/shorter?

Kevin


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## jimbojango (Jan 3, 2011)

KMB said:


> I've sat down and written out some specs that I would like for trailers from a few companies, and in the next day or so, I'll call and get a few quotes. I want to get 2 from PJ, one from Big Tex, one from Load Trail and one from Trailmaster. I'm sure I'll need to be sitting down for all of them except maybe Trailmaster.
> 
> I probably haven't looked hard enough, but it looks like 5200 lb. axles are only spec'd for 83" wide trailers. Does anybody know if 5200 lb. axles come narrower/shorter?
> 
> Kevin




Why would you want a 77 inch wide trailer instead of 83 or bigger? i'd pull a 102 everywhere if i could afford them. You might also check with C&M Trailers in Southern Oklahoma, and WW trailers out of Madill OK. Thats what we pull and they are good solid trailers and dealers for them can't be to hard to find considering i've seen WW's in south dakota!


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## KMB (Jan 3, 2011)

jimbojango said:


> You guys and your trailers  i just stick a cord on my pickup. Its only a 3 foot tall stack and another cord in a 1 ton pickup bed trailer. Also 3 feet tall. If I had another pickup bed trailer I thought was road worthy I'd stack another cord on it and my poor little dodge would still pull it! BTW does a cord of oak really weigh in close to 5000 pounds? my pickup doesnt think it wieghs near that, maybe 3500. Might just be because its loaded so evenly.



Do a Google search for wood cord weights or wood cord calculators or something close to that. I've read 5000 lbs to 5700 lbs for green Oak per cord. What type of Oak is also a factor.

Kevin


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## Mntn Man (Jan 3, 2011)

The load was ash that was in log form for at least a year before I chunked and split it. It is burning nicely but am burning other wood that I have first. Yes, I am tired of stacking.

You can get custom ordered axles and about anything else you need to build a trailer from AAA Trailer online. 7000lb axles aren't much more than 5200lb axles, but wheels and tires will be a bit more.

I would like to build a deck-over trailer for my quads. I want to custom make it with the same track as my truck and about the same width. I want to keep it from hanging out and catching wind as much a possible. I don't have the time to get it done, though.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Haywire Haywood (Jan 3, 2011)

jimbojango said:


> Why would you want a 77 inch wide trailer instead of 83 or bigger?


 
Ideally I don't want anything that's wider than the truck that's pulling it. If the truck will fit through a hole, I want the trailer to follow suit. I won't be clearing my country road of mailboxes that are a little too close to the road. My road is such that if two pickups meet each other, both of them have one set of wheels in the grass, especially if one is a dually.

Ian


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## KMB (Jan 3, 2011)

jimbojango said:


> Why would you want a 77 inch wide trailer instead of 83 or bigger? i'd pull a 102 everywhere if i could afford them. You might also check with C&M Trailers in Southern Oklahoma, and WW trailers out of Madill OK. Thats what we pull and they are good solid trailers and dealers for them can't be to hard to find considering i've seen WW's in south dakota!



I plan on getting a 83' wide trailer...if funds allow, I'm not made of money. I am curious about the 77" is all.

I'm trying to find the balance between price and how much trailer I can get to pull behind my half ton. Ian sums it up nicely:



Haywire Haywood said:


> I want one build adequately for the purpose but not overbuilt so that I waste towing capacity pulling steel down the road.



Especially for _my current truck_. I will look and see if C&M and WW have websites.

Kevin


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## Steveguy (Jan 3, 2011)

KMB,
Just my opinions, but here they are anyway. Be careful not to option your way out of price range, any of the tandem utilities will do the job for you. The angle frames with 1 foot side frames use lighter materials and use the side as a truss to gain strength without excessive weight. This helps keep them lighter than a flatbed. Anytime you add trailer weight you take away load capacity. I know that some talk about flex too, but if you look at the big aluminum flatbed semi trailers, they really flex! On any website you can get into bigger is better, but stay within the constraints of the tow rig and you will be happier. You can get a heavier trailer down the road to pull with the dually diesel when you get there.

One other note, don't buy a heavy single axle trailer!!!! The tandems smooth things out so much, extra safety with four tires,if youve ever had a tire failure on a loaded single axle you won't want one. More brakes, much less jigging on your truck hitch, pull more weight with less drama.

With the half ton you can haul 7000 on the trailer axles and 700 on the tongue weight, giving 7700 total, minus 2000 for the trailer, about 5500-5700 net. Thats enough in my opinion. 

This is just my opinion and I don't really want to debate with anyone on their 27 foot gooseneck brake free 30,000 lb behind an S-10 :hmm3grin2orange:


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## jimbojango (Jan 3, 2011)

Steveguy said:


> KMB,
> Just my opinions, but here they are anyway. Be careful not to option your way out of price range, any of the tandem utilities will do the job for you. The angle frames with 1 foot side frames use lighter materials and use the side as a truss to gain strength without excessive weight. This helps keep them lighter than a flatbed. Anytime you add trailer weight you take away load capacity. I know that some talk about flex too, but if you look at the big aluminum flatbed semi trailers, they really flex! On any website you can get into bigger is better, but stay within the constraints of the tow rig and you will be happier. You can get a heavier trailer down the road to pull with the dually diesel when you get there.
> 
> One other note, don't buy a heavy single axle trailer!!!! The tandems smooth things out so much, extra safety with four tires,if youve ever had a tire failure on a loaded single axle you won't want one. More brakes, much less jigging on your truck hitch, pull more weight with less drama.
> ...



Its 30,000 behind a dodge deisel! damnit! get it right! lol. And i'll bet the trailer is rated close to it. I still agree with the rest of your statements. If you can get 5500 pounds behind a half ton plus a trailer you've got enough wieght. If you have a 3/4 ton or 1 ton you should pull a gooseneck and just accept the fact you drive a mans truck. Goosenecks are easier backing, follow in a shorter radius ect. ect. They are MUCH better, but if you pull a trailer 10 times a year for 50 miles you aren't very smart to buy a gooseneck


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## Steveguy (Jan 3, 2011)

Jimbo,
Thanks for not taking offense, I wasn't out to make you mad, just make the half ton point. Sometimes the humor doesn't make it in print!! I use a dodge half ton with the little v-8 and a home built tandem utility style trailer, and 8000 or so is plentyyyy of weight behind it. In wisconsin, the security of brakes in the hills and ice etc. is great. And I'm obeying the law.... mostly


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## jimbojango (Jan 3, 2011)

Steveguy said:


> Jimbo,
> Thanks for not taking offense, I wasn't out to make you mad, just make the half ton point. Sometimes the humor doesn't make it in print!! I use a dodge half ton with the little v-8 and a home built tandem utility style trailer, and 8000 or so is plentyyyy of weight behind it. In wisconsin, the security of brakes in the hills and ice etc. is great. And I'm obeying the law.... mostly


 
I live where its flat, you can do that retarded 30,000 pound stuff without brakes. But I've owned well.. still own some half tons and like i said 5000 pounds of load behind it is enough. I till think you'd like the wider trailer though as you really don't cut that much wind AND you can load a regular single wheel pickup on it if needed.

Any of you guys wanting goosenecks for wood hauling are probably out of your mind  I wouldn't own one if it wasn't for hauling hay and machinery ect.


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## KMB (Jan 3, 2011)

Steveguy said:


> KMB,
> Just my opinions, but here they are anyway. Be careful not to option your way out of price range, any of the tandem utilities will do the job for you. The angle frames with 1 foot side frames use lighter materials and use the side as a truss to gain strength without excessive weight. This helps keep them lighter than a flatbed. *Anytime you add trailer weight you take away load capacity.* I know that some talk about flex too, but if you look at the big aluminum flatbed semi trailers, they really flex! *On any website you can get into bigger is better, but stay within the constraints of the tow rig and you will be happier. You can get a heavier trailer down the road to pull with the dually diesel when you get there.*
> 
> One other note, don't buy a heavy single axle trailer!!!! The tandems smooth things out so much, extra safety with four tires,if youve ever had a tire failure on a loaded single axle you won't want one. More brakes, much less jigging on your truck hitch, pull more weight with less drama.
> ...



Good post man! 

LOL...you must have read my mind on the heavy single. It has crossed my mind and I was going to get a quote on a PJ 4" channel 83" x 12', 16" O.C. cross members with a 5200 lb. braked axle. My thought was pricing (?) and that I could get a little over 2/3 of a cord on the trailer and a little under 1/3 cord on the truck. But...I forgot about the things you mentioned...especially with blowouts. I had one with the car hauler I have mentioned. I was loaded and was glad for the tandems for sure. I was going slow through a town so no drama. So thanks reminder of why I shouldn't get a single axle for what I want to do.

Your calculations on what I should be pulling behind my half ton is exactly what I had figured also.

Kevin


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## Haywire Haywood (Jan 3, 2011)

Heck... before I picked up that little kubota in my signature, I wanted a 12x5 tandem with 36" sides for wood hauling. Now I need a bit longer and wider for the tractor. 

I think I'll be able to get a 3/4T for my 50th birthday. Providing that my income doesn't take a nose dive between now and then of course. I just turned 43 last month. It'll be awhile. 

Ian


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## les-or-more (Jan 3, 2011)

KMB said:


> Good post man!
> 
> LOL...you must have read my mind on the heavy single. It has crossed my mind and I was going to get a quote on a PJ 4" channel 83" x 12', 16" O.C. cross members with a 5200 lb. braked axle. My thought was pricing (?) and that I could get a little over 2/3 of a cord on the trailer and a little under 1/3 cord on the truck. But...I forgot about the things you mentioned...especially with blowouts. I had one with the car hauler I have mentioned. I was loaded and was glad for the tandems for sure. I was going slow through a town so no drama. So thanks reminder of why I shouldn't get a single axle for what I want to do.
> 
> ...


 Kevin a tandem utilty 6'x16' with 2- 3500# brake axles should weigh around 1800#.


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## Steveguy (Jan 4, 2011)

*Home built trailer*

KMB, here are some pics of my home built trailer, licensed at 10k.
Steveguy


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## Haywire Haywood (Jan 5, 2011)

I think I've decided on the Lone Wolf. It's enough. I could get the Kaufman for about the same money, but would sacrifice payload in doing that. I called Gator trailers (made here in KY) but they were not very flexible when it came to options. I asked about 24" sides and they said no, so I did too.

If I ever get the 3/4t, I will want a 10K trailer anyway. I'll upgrade then.

Ian


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## Locust Cutter (Jan 5, 2011)

jimbojango said:


> Locust- 500 for a c50 is a STEAL no matter what if it moves! i spent 500 on brakes for my c70 without buying drums or shoes  just had to put cylinders and seals and fluid and kits in them (all avilible from truck parts and orielly's)
> 
> I have some buddies that trap over around Sharon... screw that mess  I have plenty of tree's about 5 miles south of the kansas/oklahoma line south of South Haven and west of Braman OK if you ever run out of tree's
> 
> My C70 does have a 427 Tall deck which lets her run 70 and never even moan. Had 30,000 miles when i bought it. It is a 1979 model though, so its got a lot better interior and such. I have saw them sell for about $4000 w/ a hoist and 16' bed.


 
Well, when I get back home an get the truck(s) fixed, I'll have to come meet you and give you a hand sawing. I spoke with that older friend yesterday (that has the C50 or C60),... He decide to give it to me free and clear, as he doesn't have the time to fix it/use it. It NEEDS Brakes, some motor attention, possibly a clutch (a few interior touches like working gauges lol) and it'll be going. Minimum will be tires, brakes and gauges (no idea on tires -COOP?) and it'll be fetching wood for me. Any idea where I could find a 366 or 427 Talldeck to replace it's TIRED 350? Hell I might even go for a 4-6cyl Cummins or Detroit,...
-Bryan


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## KMB (Jan 6, 2011)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I think I've decided on the Lone Wolf. It's enough. I could get the Kaufman for about the same money, but would sacrifice payload in doing that. I called Gator trailers (made here in KY) but they were not very flexible when it came to options. I asked about 24" sides and *they said no, so I did too.*







Haywire Haywood said:


> If I ever get the 3/4t, I will want a 10K trailer anyway. I'll upgrade then.



Yup, same goes for myself. Until then, I deal with my half ton.

Kevin


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## jimbojango (Jan 6, 2011)

Locust Cutter said:


> Well, when I get back home an get the truck(s) fixed, I'll have to come meet you and give you a hand sawing. I spoke with that older friend yesterday (that has the C50 or C60),... He decide to give it to me free and clear, as he doesn't have the time to fix it/use it. It NEEDS Brakes, some motor attention, possibly a clutch (a few interior touches like working gauges lol) and it'll be going. Minimum will be tires, brakes and gauges (no idea on tires -COOP?) and it'll be fetching wood for me. Any idea where I could find a 366 or 427 Talldeck to replace it's TIRED 350? Hell I might even go for a 4-6cyl Cummins or Detroit,...
> -Bryan



Don't put a 366 in it!!!! I'm sure someone around this area has a 427 or 454 though. Tires aren't so hard to find, are they 20's or 22.5's? mine are 22.5's the same as a school bus and i gave 50 bucks a tire for year old Firestones off a school bus, i could put semi tires on it though. If they are 20's i have a buddy that could probably get you the hook up on new ones, used ones..... HA! they dont' exist but he might be able to find some. Brakes aren't bad if the drums are "ok" the cylinders are bought from o'reilly's... but DO NOT screw the adjusters up. Spray them with panther piss multiple times and then work them around. You can't buy the adjuster kits. There are 2 cylinders per drum on mine and i had to remove the axle (don't screw you're seal up either! its 50 bucks) If you have bud wheels (tubeless) you're in REALLY good shape


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## TMFARM 2009 (Jan 6, 2011)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Ideally I don't want anything that's wider than the truck that's pulling it. If the truck will fit through a hole, I want the trailer to follow suit. I won't be clearing my country road of mailboxes that are a little too close to the road. My road is such that if two pickups meet each other, both of them have one set of wheels in the grass, especially if one is a dually.
> 
> Ian


 i am currently looking for an older pickup to make a trailer out of the frame and bed. i used this type before with a 67 Chevy one ton with 2' side boards on truck and trailer you can pack some serious wood in them both... and it wont stick out going down the road... also the key is to find one that runs same tires and rims so you only have one spare to carry....i have built these before for less then $500.00 you can run hydraulic surge brakes from hitch to the axle brakes also... but also i have used landscapers trailers and yes you can overload them... i bent axles under one 6.5x14' 7000# trailer hauled and scaled 12000# and bent the axles. the trailer i have now is bent also... i hauled a load of logs up from the creek and now the rear of the trailer is bowed down.bent the frame rails and they are 5" channel. *you can not over build a trailer but you can over pay for one.
*


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## Haywire Haywood (Jan 7, 2011)

A pickup truck frame trailer won't work for me. I need the trailer to haul my tractor too.

You can overload and break anything. With 12k on a 7k trailer, it shouldn't surprise you that it self destructed. Since my truck is only tow rated for 6600, has a 4.6L gasser instead of a diesel and is my daily driver too, I won't be pulling 6 ton of anything behind it for any reason. 

A 14x77 with 24" sides is 182 cubic feet. The general rule of thumb (by my understanding) is that a thrown cord is 180 cu ft, so that trailer will hold almost exactly 1 cord. A cord of green oak supposedly goes over 5k. The trailer is about 1500lbs IIRC, so with a load of green oak 6" under the rails so I don't lose any on the road, I'd be right at my tow limit and just under the trailer GVWR. Sounds like a good match.

Only problem I can foresee is when what goes on there isn't under my control. Like at the gravel pit when the man with 5 ton of gravel in his bucket lets the whole load slide out onto the trailer. That hasn't happened to me yet though with my single axle trailer. They've got pretty good operators down there.

Ian


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## woodcutter69 (Jan 7, 2011)

*you can overbuild a trailer.*



TMFARM 2009 said:


> i am currently looking for an older pickup to make a trailer out of the frame and bed. i used this type before with a 67 Chevy one ton with 2' side boards on truck and trailer you can pack some serious wood in them both... and it wont stick out going down the road... also the key is to find one that runs same tires and rims so you only have one spare to carry....i have built these before for less then $500.00 you can run hydraulic surge brakes from hitch to the axle brakes also... but also i have used landscapers trailers and yes you can overload them... i bent axles under one 6.5x14' 7000# trailer hauled and scaled 12000# and bent the axles. the trailer i have now is bent also... i hauled a load of logs up from the creek and now the rear of the trailer is bowed down.bent the frame rails and they are 5" channel. *you can not over build a trailer but you can over pay for one.
> *


 you can overbuild a trailer. the trailer needs to flex a little or something will break


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## KMB (Jan 17, 2011)

Bump. I’ve been doing more thinking and research and I have a ‘book’ to post…sorry. You fellas have passed on some good, helpful info…that’s why I’m posting yet again. I’ve been looking at some old AS threads and pictures of what some folks are using for hauling firewood and I’ve changed my mind to a car hauler/equipment trailer.

I would like a utility trailer for a ramp gate mainly, and I’d like the low side rails for low height loads. It might not be a big deal, but I don’t think I’d like using plywood side boards with out attaching them to the trailer side rails. Attaching would make them more ‘permanent’ then side boards in stake pockets that could be removed quickly. The plywood could stand free with rounds to hold it up I guess.

A car hauler/equipment trailer, with the open flat deck, just seems to have more options for loads…within reason with my half-ton in front of it. I’ve found out that ramp gates are options on certain brands of car hauler/equipment trailers. Even if I’d buy a used car hauler without a ramp gate (with slide-in ramps only), I could buy a portable fold-up ramp for my mower (easier to load than with 2 individual ramps). As mentioned already, I’d like built side boards in the stake pockets better. For loads where I would want side boards; but low enough that I could reach over the side of the trailer, I’d simply build a set of lower height side boards. I’d like to get a yard or 2 or more in a nearby town to mow this summer with my ZTR mower and I’d use the low sideboards for when I’m also hauling the push mower and whatever else. To anchor the mowers inside the side boards, I could install recessed D-rings on the trailer floor. And of course use the trailer for its intended use…to haul vehicles if ever needed. 

A used trailer would be fine of course, but most I’ve seen locally have a dovetail and I wouldn’t want that for the slope of the approach into my yard and other places where I have slightly dragged with the dovetailed car hauler I currently borrow. I’ve only seen ramp gates on these types of trailers in pictures online…not locally yet. I could live without a ramp gate, but because I don’t want a dovetail, I might have to go new.

I have another thought for the future…it might not be sensible. I would buy a 7K rated car hauler/equipment trailer (pretty common) with the thought of replacing the 3500lb rated axles for 5200lb axles when I would upgrade my truck. Some of the 7K rated trailers have 5” channel frames, 5” channel wrap tongues, 3” channel or 3"x2”x3/16” angle crossmembers and optional 2 5/16” couplers. Some of the 10K rated trailers have the same specs except with the 3” channel crossmembers only (not the 3” angle), standard 2 5/16” couplers (and of course 5200lb axles). So, later on I would replace the axles to get the higher weight rating. If I would go with a 7K trailer with the 3” angle crossmembers (if the 3” channels were not available), I could get them on 16” centers if the option was available. There is the trailer weight (again, for my half-ton with it’s smaller 4.6L V8 and 3.55 gears…don’t want to pull more trailer weight than I have to for payload reasons) to wonder about. Would 2000lbs. be a fair estimate for a 83” x 16’ trailer with these specs (including brakes on both axles) ? Would leave 5000lbs. of payload…legally. For a comparison, a Big Tex 70CH 83” x 16’ (car hauler) has a 5”x3”x5/16” frame, 4” channel wrap tongue, and 3”x2”x3/16” crossmembers and weighs 1800lbs. according to their specs.

One other thing is that a 10K rated trailer in the future (with the right truck in front of it…in the future) will be big enough for me. I don’t own a tractor with a FEL so all of my firewood handling is done by hand. I know a fella that has a tree removal company and he could load me up with log length wood…but I’d have the problem of unloading it without a tractor at the house. It probably could be done…but it would be hard and dangerous I’m sure. A 10K rated trailer for me would be for getting a large amount of rounds at one time…and I’m sure I would be worn out cutting and loading by myself to fully load (cord and a half?) the trailer properly. Getting loaded up with rounds with a tractor (that my tree guy friend uses) that I could roll off the trailer at the house is a different story. 

I got a quote on this trailer Trail Master in 83” x 16’, without the dovetail, 2 braked axles, 4 extra stake pockets (total of 5 each side), 48” tail gate and spare tire bracket for $2240. There are 2 other brands (PJ and Load Trail) that I want to get quotes on.

What say y’all…besides that I think way too much…. Is my ‘axle upgrade later’ a crazy idea? Just trying to settle in my mind what to aim for.

Kevin


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## Beefie (Jan 17, 2011)

KMB said:


> Bump. I’ve been doing more thinking and research and I have a ‘book’ to post…sorry. You fellas have passed on some good, helpful info…that’s why I’m posting yet again. I’ve been looking at some old AS threads and pictures of what some folks are using for hauling firewood and I’ve changed my mind to a car hauler/equipment trailer.
> 
> I would like a utility trailer for a ramp gate mainly, and I’d like the low side rails for low height loads. It might not be a big deal, but I don’t think I’d like using plywood side boards with out attaching them to the trailer side rails. Attaching would make them more ‘permanent’ then side boards in stake pockets that could be removed quickly. The plywood could stand free with rounds to hold it up I guess.
> 
> ...


 
I don't think the axle upgrade would be the way to go. I think It would be harder to get it reregistered once its been tagged for 7000lb. I no that you have researched this a ton but For what you are doing I would buy a used 16' 7000lb for now . Then upgrade to a 10400lb when you get your bigger truck, you could be saving up while you are waiting for the biigger truck.

Just my 2cents worth.

Beefie


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## daddy (Jan 17, 2011)

Yup, yer crazy. :doh:

You will waste money and time with an axle upgrade on a perfectly good trailer, especially if you are buying it new.

Either get the 7K now and decide later if it is enough, or go for it, and buy the 10K now, and you will be done, no matter what truck you pull it with.

I haven't followed along, but I'd say if you really think you need the bigger one, just get it first. 

Just my not so humble opinion.


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## Haywire Haywood (Jan 17, 2011)

To catch you up... he'll want the 10K for later, but doesn't have the truck to pull it now.

Ian


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## woodcutter69 (Jan 17, 2011)

if you go new it will cost you well over $1200.00 if you go new to upgrade the axles. you will have to get new tires and wheels to mate up with a 8 bolt lug axle. think ahead it will cost more money in the long run, way more money.


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## KMB (Jan 17, 2011)

Good stuff fellas...even the 'not so humble opinion' LOL! I can take it. I knew I could get some comments/opinions and it makes good sense to try for a dedicated 7K trailer and do a dedicated 10K trailer later. Rep as I can.

Thanks Ian for the short and too the point 'catch-up' for those joining the thread.

I do think I'd like to price out and try for a 5" channel (or 5" angle) car/equipment trailer. I don't think the 5" channel would be that much heavier than a 4" channel frame...or would it?

Kevin


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## jimbojango (Jan 17, 2011)

KMB said:


> Good stuff fellas...even the 'not so humble opinion' LOL! I can take it. I knew I could get some comments/opinions and it makes good sense to try for a dedicated 7K trailer and do a dedicated 10K trailer later. Rep as I can.
> 
> Thanks Ian for the short and too the point 'catch-up' for those joining the thread.
> 
> ...



Not much heavier i wouldn't think, and MUCH stronger. I doubt you ever mess your stringers up no matter how you load it though, you'll ruin tires and bearings and bend axle's before the stuff on top goes bad  unless you somehow manage to pull the tounge out or bend it


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## Locust Cutter (Jan 18, 2011)

jimbojango said:


> Not much heavier i wouldn't think, and MUCH stronger. I doubt you ever mess your stringers up no matter how you load it though, you'll ruin tires and bearings and bend axle's before the stuff on top goes bad  unless you somehow manage to pull the tounge out or bend it


 
I agree with Jim, Kevin. The heavier trailer likely won't tax your truck that much more but you'll be ready when you get the next truck. The other option, is to just buy the 7k trailer and sell it when you're ready to buy the bigger truck/trailer and get the 10k trailer then. You'll likely not lose a lot of value on the 7k trailer (as you've discovered that used 7k trailer aren't much cheaper than new ones). You'll get most of your investment back and be hassle and money ahead in the long run. 

The 3rd option (if you can afford it) would be to keep the 7k trailer and buy the 10k to augment the 7 k one. This option only makes sense for one reason if it ends up being applicable to you; if keep your old truck when you get the newer/bigger one. 
Other than a stock trailer, I intend to end up with two trailers: a 25-30' gooseneck and a 16-18' car/utility trailer. They both have their advantages/disadvantages, but there are good reasons for both (or in your case 2 different weight ratings). The smaller trailer can be pulled by any reasonable vehicle with a ball/receiver hitch and be used for a lot of mundane tasks to augment the carrying capacity of your truck (not to mention accommodate longer loads). The larger one can then be used for your heavier/bigger hauling tasks when it's needed, thereby reducing the fuel waste for lighter smaller loads and keeping wear/tear down on the bigger more expensive trailer/truck. 

I want the smaller car hauler for a lot of smaller load tasks and for use in places that I can't get the gooseneck into. Any of my trucks can safely pull one (except for my little Toyota motorized wheelbarrow LMAO), which frees up it's use from one dedicated truck. The bigger one for you (or the GN for me) can then be used for bigger loads, with the "big" truck ( in my case for Hay/large loads of firewood/tractors/bigger scrap steel, etc). Unless your using a diesel, your big truck is likely going to eat A LOT more fuel than your F-150 does, and this option (money and necessity provided) makes much better financial and logistical sense than a "1 size fits all approach". 

I know you've thought this out Kevin, but, hopefully that might give you something to think about and make a better informed financial decision. I guess the question I would ask, which you may have already addressed, is how much work will you be doing with your trailer(s) and what are you looking to get out of the investment? If you're doing this for yourself, buy the slightly heavier trailer and be content with the sound investment. If you're going to be using this (them) as a viable "business" tool, you might be better suited with a bigger/smaller truck and trailer combo setup. 
I apologize for the rambling post, but I was trying to play Devil's Advocate and logically present both sides of consideration for you.
-Bryan


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## zogger (Jan 18, 2011)

*go a step up*



kstill361 said:


> I still got the 1/2 ton 2003 F-150 4x4 with 5.4L .
> I remember seeing a picture of that trailer you borrow. I would like to upgrade to a 3/4 ton truck myself someday.



--look around for the next size up from pickups, you'll be surprised, you can find a decent cargo hauler and trailer puller for the *same loot* as guys want for pickups. You can easily get 3-4 times the load rating, etc. And they won't get all that worse of mileage either, (or they can get better mileage, like those snub nosed diesel isuzus you see the landscraper guys use) and tons of them all you need is a regular drivers license, no CDL needed.


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## KMB (Jan 18, 2011)

Bryan,

Thanks again for your thoughts, reasonings and advice, no need to apologize for the ‘rambling’. I sometimes ‘ramble’ here because y’all know what I’m talking about and it bores my wife (and sometimes others) when I try to talk about my thoughts about equipment. If you have anymore to pass on…I’m all ears! 

A 4” channel frame would work, but the way I am, I’d feel more comfortable with the 5” frame.

For my next truck, for my personal use, I’d go with a SRW 4x4 truck in ¾ ton (or 1 ton). Another thought I’ve had is if I was to ever run out of work with my current work (drafting), I might try hotshot hauling and hay hauling with a 1 ton dually and a proper gooseneck. When the time is right and I can upgrade, I’ll have to look at my situation (work and finances) and decide on SRW or DRW. I’d keep my ½ ton with the 7K trailer if I figure I should try the hotshot/hay hauling with a bigger truck and trailer. Otherwise, I’d sell the ½ ton and 7K trailer, and step up to the stronger SRW 4x4 and 10K trailer. For my personal use, the heaviest loads will/would be firewood…as of right now and as far as I can see into the future LOL!

Along with a 7K tandem, I would like to also have a 5 ‘(or 6’) x 10’ single axle utility trailer. I could pull it behind my family wagon (Toyota Highlander) for trips to town to pick up an appliance, furniture and so on. I cut firewood for my mom-in-law and it would be handy to load the trailer with split wood, and take it to her small yard and drop it off so she can unload it in her time (before I get flamed…she is physically able to unload and stack her wood). For splitting wood in my yard, I would throw the splits on the trailer to keep them off the ground if I couldn’t stack right away, and move the trailer around with my old 4wheeler. My bro-in-law has such a trailer (5’x8’) and I did use it as I have described…but he needs it now for his work, so I don’t have it at my house. Also, I mentioned my wanting to mow some yards for extra cash, a big enough single axle trailer (6’x10’) would work great for that too.

For now, one thing/trailer at a time, and a heavier built 7K would cover the most bases for me. 

Kevin


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