# small tracked skidder



## Bubba Stump (Jun 3, 2015)

It's been a while since I have been on this site but I know there is a wealth of knowledge to be had here so I decided to address a problem I have at the moment. I am a owner of a small tree service and have recently been getting a lot of jobs doing small scale thinning. It is just my brother and I and we don't want to have to hire anyone to work for us at the moment. Getting the material down to a landing is our biggest problem. The terrain is pretty steep and the hills are a long ways to the top of the ridge. I have tried winching, and using a small kubota tractor as a skidder but the tractor is not wide enough to maneuver on the steep grades and the winching system is a pain to move around and set up. I have thought about maybe trying a yarder type method but space is limmited on the small parcels of private land. I looked all over the web for small scale skidders and dozers but can only come up with the Tremzac Oxtrac low impact skidder and the nortract 35xtd dozer. both are new production machines but the Oxtrac is a little out of my price range at around $57 G's or more depending on options. The Nortac dozer is in the 20's but is made in china and I can't find any real info on how it holds up or performs. I think a small dozer like the size of a Caterpillar D-2 or Twenty two would be perfect but finding one in tip top shape that could handle the steep hills without having it loose power to the tracs or be able to brake on the steep ground is almost impossible. I also need to consider availability of parts. Does anybody know of another machine that is made these days that would work for what I need.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 3, 2015)

komatsu made a little dozer, like 4-5 tons. pretty light. personally i would go with some thing a little heavier like a d 4.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 3, 2015)

I've known a few fellers with those china dozers, not bad machines, not top of the line either, but they get the job done.

Slayer is right though, something a little heavier would be better.


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## fordf150 (Jun 3, 2015)

Komatsu d21. 10000 lbs $10-15k in decent shape. Never seen one with a winch let alone a log arch though.
We used a deere 350 track loader with a winch and log arch for years commercial/hobby logging. Not enough power if your in a hurry but has a strong enough winch to pull 36" oak up a pretty step hill.


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## Gologit (Jun 3, 2015)

D-4 or a D-6. Don't screw around with toy tractors. They'll either run you into bankruptcy or kill you.


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## fordf150 (Jun 4, 2015)

Gologit said:


> D-4 or a D-6. Don't screw around with toy tractors. They'll either run you into bankruptcy or kill you.


That's why I said hobby...350 deere was to slow to really make money....and agree completely on get you killed...that 350 was on its side more than once


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## anlrolfe (Jun 4, 2015)

The best "Low Impact Skidder" I've ever used was a pair of 2200 lb steers.
Daily maintenance, break-in/training/growth period require determination.
When a pair of Big Oxen lean into it(Get up), they make the work of Clydesdale's look like Shetland ponys.

Seen some creative things with well-wheels and power tugger driving big loops of cable but that brings up lots of other issues.


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## Gologit (Jun 4, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> That's why I said hobby...350 deere was to slow to really make money....and agree completely on get you killed...that 350 was on its side more than once


 LOL...you can turn 4's and 6's over too...you just have to work a little harder at it. Same with rubber tired skidders. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
I just hate to see a guy buy one of those little rigs that really isn't much more than a riding lawnmower and expect super performance out of it.
If they want to play logger they should get some serious toys. Safe ones, too.


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## Trx250r180 (Jun 4, 2015)

so my dozer wont cut it i take it ?


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## Gologit (Jun 4, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> so my dozer wont cut it i take it ?View attachment 428617


 LOL...looks fine right where it is.


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## Bubba Stump (Jun 4, 2015)

Well I can see that the majority of you think I need to go with something in the medium size. My problem is finding something that is not going to have to have a lowboy to pull it around with. I have a 1999 Ford F-250 Superduty Lariat 4X4 and a twenty foot 17,000lb dual axle bumper pull trailer. If I could find something that would not be to heavy for what I have available that would be great, that is why I was looking for something small. I see that in europe they have all kinds of small forestry machinery including Awosos Rubber tire skidders and small log loader/forwarders etc. I am not wanting to go full bore logging, I have been there when I was falling timber for a living. If you want to log full time you have to go big. I am out in the southwest and there is not alot of big timber to be cut unless you are working on a Indian reservation were you don't have to go by the Forest Circus rules. Down here the FS won't let you cut down anything bigger than 24" at breast height. I am strictly dooing small private land urban interface thinning to reduce the fire hazard, and it is not full time. I just recently have been getting alot of customers who are trying to prepare before the drought brings the fire danger back up the "extreme". Another matter I have to contend with is that alot of my customers are from the city and big logging equipment means high environmental impact and forest destruction if you know what I mean. You all know that this is not the case but city people have been brain washed into thinking that logging is an environmental demon. If you use words like "Thinning or Urban interface" it some how magically becomes good for the environment. Anyway, this is what I have found to be true.


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## fordf150 (Jun 4, 2015)

step dad logged full time and part time/hobby logging as some would call it. here is what he had and depending on the jobsite he used every piece to pull logs. deere 440 skidder , 350 track loader w/ winch and log arch , 450H dozer w/winch, toyota skid steer with metal tracks and grapple bucket. depending on the terrain and quantity he may have only used the skid steer for one job or the 350 and the very next job had every piece out there. i think what everyone is trying to say is that to be efficient and safe it takes bigger equipment than what your asking about. that 350 track loader pulled allot of timber over the 15 yrs or so he used it. he also had quite a few mishaps that ended with it laying on its side and any of those had the potential to be deadly. he looked at one of those oxtrac skidders and couldnt justify it. not enough money in the jobs he did. which most were small acreage jobs or thinning jobs so i would say similar to what your doing. that 350 track loader weighed in around 13k lbs. it did good to pull one 24" tree length log and was slow doing it on the hills we have in southern ohio but he used it for 15 yrs or better and it is still sitting at the last job he did 5 yrs ago while everything else was sold when he got out of it.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 4, 2015)

We have a JD550 dozer with the forestry package (limb risers, radiator guard, track guards, logging arch/winch). I've never used it to skid, but I guess it wasn't too bad of a "skidder" back in the day before the 648 grapple skidders were bought. I believe it weighs around 20,000lbs, so it's not a "light" machine, but it's about as small of a dozer that is somewhat practicle. Was told it was real easy to tip if not on decent ground... some days it tipped over 3-4 times.

Nortrac.. is just a relabeled Jinma/Foton tractor. I would be hitting auctions/private sales for a John Deere, CAT, etc dozer well well well before I thought about counting on those Chinese units. Even if it does work ok, parts are tough to find unless you have a decent dealer, and the manuals... the Changlish is so bad it's laughable.


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## Trx250r180 (Jun 4, 2015)

Flying cats are common in this area


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 4, 2015)

Thats nuts! What bird is lifting it?

D5 TSK is roughly 35k I think? As far as I know a "shithook" (ch-47) can't do it.


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## _RJ_ (Jun 4, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Thats nuts! What bird is lifting it?
> 
> D5 TSK is roughly 35k I think? As far as I know a "shithook" (ch-47) can't do it.


Yarder I bet.


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## Gologit (Jun 4, 2015)

_RJ_ said:


> Yarder I bet.


Yup....sure beats having to walk it all the way out.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 4, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Thats nuts! What bird is lifting it?
> 
> D5 TSK is roughly 35k I think? As far as I know a "shithook" (ch-47) can't do it.



Berger MK IV or MK VI... if memory serves.

One of the members here, and my memory is crap lately was playing forester for em last summer...


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## BeatCJ (Jun 5, 2015)

I helped change the oil in that yarder once, when it was at St. Helens salvage logging.


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## AKDoug (Jun 8, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> komatsu made a little dozer, like 4-5 tons. pretty light. personally i would go with some thing a little heavier like a d 4.


I have one. A little D-21A8. They're handy little sh!ts. Mine starts when it's super cold and will pull quite a bit for it's size. You can snake it through the woods like crazy. It's light enough that I've even driven it on top of dense snow. I pulled out 100 cords of full length birch without a log arch, just flat towing it with chokers on snow trails I made. Not much for real logging, but kick butt for firewood work. Of course, the D6N with 20 hrs on it I ran last week made it look like a toy.


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## fordf150 (Jun 8, 2015)

AKDoug said:


> I have one. A little D-21A8. They're handy little sh!ts. Mine starts when it's super cold and will pull quite a bit for it's size. You can snake it through the woods like crazy. It's light enough that I've even driven it on top of dense snow. I pulled out 100 cords of full length birch without a log arch, just flat towing it with chokers on snow trails I made. Not much for real logging, but kick butt for firewood work. Of course, the D6N with 20 hrs on it I ran last week made it look like a toy.




yours have the pyramid tracks or standard? Dont see them very often with standard pads around here


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 8, 2015)

I didn't realize the little D21 could be setup with a winch?
One of my friend's had a D20 for a while. I think that's the older non hydrostatic model? He ended up selling it for a T300 Bobcat.

If I person could figure a way to setup a log arch/winch on the back of a skid steer it would skid pretty well. I used the TR270 we have at the shop to skid a good 30+ cords over 2 days just using my grapple off my S250. It worked fine because it was the last bit on a farm land clearing job so didn't have much to hit with the logs sitting like airplane wings. The tracks do did well in the field too.


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## AKDoug (Jun 9, 2015)

fordf150 said:


> yours have the pyramid tracks or standard? Dont see them very often with standard pads around here


Standard steel tracks. I'm putting new spockets on it later in the week.



ValleyFirewood said:


> I didn't realize the little D21 could be setup with a winch?
> One of my friend's had a D20 for a while. I think that's the older non hydrostatic model? He ended up selling it for a T300 Bobcat.
> 
> If I person could figure a way to setup a log arch/winch on the back of a skid steer it would skid pretty well. I used the TR270 we have at the shop to skid a good 30+ cords over 2 days just using my grapple off my S250. It worked fine because it was the last bit on a farm land clearing job so didn't have much to hit with the logs sitting like airplane wings. The tracks do did well in the field too.


 It's not setup with a winch. I just tow off the rear tow hook. It's not a skidder by any means, but it will move logs if you need to. I prefer winter since it slicks things up when you are dragging the whole log on the ground. As for skid steers, I will significantly out pull my Volvo MCT125C tracked skid steer. Traction with the steel grousers and the ability to pop the engagement with the peddle is a significant advantage with the dozer.


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## Bubba Stump (Jun 9, 2015)

Just got back from moving my sister to eastern Colorado and decided to see what was on the forum. While I was up in Colorado I drove around some of the farming areas and found a Case 310G dozer for sale. The undercarriage is about 90% and the rest of the machine is in pretty good shape. The track pads are perfect because there are some rubber pads bolted to the main pads. the ruber has all come off but the metal bracket that holds the pads to the track are still in place, this has left the main track un-worn. the pins on the track are just barely starting to get out of round and the sprockets look great. the rest of the machine looks good with no breaks or major rust. It has hydrolic quick disconnects at the rear and the seat has new upulstery on it. it is a 4cyl diesel and it has a hydrolic dozer blade up front. I only had a few minutes to look it over but it looked good on the outside, I did not get to talk to the owner yet. The price on it was $6,000 OBO. Does anybody have any experience or good/bad info on these Case 310G's? What is a good price to offer if the thing runs and operates good?


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 9, 2015)

AKDoug said:


> I have one. A little D-21A8. They're handy little sh!ts. Mine starts when it's super cold and will pull quite a bit for it's size. You can snake it through the woods like crazy. It's light enough that I've even driven it on top of dense snow. I pulled out 100 cords of full length birch without a log arch, just flat towing it with chokers on snow trails I made. Not much for real logging, but kick butt for firewood work. Of course, the D6N with 20 hrs on it I ran last week made it look like a toy.


Doug tell me more.......i have a chance to buy one reasonable, it has loader tracks on it. it is direct drive. would it be suitable for light road maintenance? does yours have a 6 way blade?


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 9, 2015)

Bubba Stump said:


> Well I can see that the majority of you think I need to go with something in the medium size. My problem is finding something that is not going to have to have a lowboy to pull it around with. I have a 1999 Ford F-250 Superduty Lariat 4X4 and a twenty foot 17,000lb dual axle bumper pull trailer. If I could find something that would not be to heavy for what I have available that would be great, that is why I was looking for something small. I see that in europe they have all kinds of small forestry machinery including Awosos Rubber tire skidders and small log loader/forwarders etc. I am not wanting to go full bore logging, I have been there when I was falling timber for a living. If you want to log full time you have to go big. I am out in the southwest and there is not alot of big timber to be cut unless you are working on a Indian reservation were you don't have to go by the Forest Circus rules. Down here the FS won't let you cut down anything bigger than 24" at breast height. I am strictly dooing small private land urban interface thinning to reduce the fire hazard, and it is not full time. I just recently have been getting alot of customers who are trying to prepare before the drought brings the fire danger back up the "extreme". Another matter I have to contend with is that alot of my customers are from the city and big logging equipment means high environmental impact and forest destruction if you know what I mean. You all know that this is not the case but city people have been brain washed into thinking that logging is an environmental demon. If you use words like "Thinning or Urban interface" it some how magically becomes good for the environment. Anyway, this is what I have found to be true.


back in the 40s and 50s small crawlers were the thing here.....cletrac, JD 1010 and the like. mostly they pulled a log arch. also they would go way back in the swamp where we can't work now and pull out huge piling and cypress.


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## spindrift7mm (Jun 9, 2015)

Bubba study up on some small arches, easy to build and cheap compared to most options. Most small older crawlers are weak in the finals as far as weight carrying so the arch is a good match. With a good arch you can use most anything capable of pulling it. I've seen arches built for garden tractors to skid firewood. ATV arches are all over the internet. Ken


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## Bubba Stump (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks for the thought spindrift7mm, you got me thinking. I have a book titled "Caterpillar Earthmovers at Work" and it shows a few old photographs of cat D4's with pull behind log arches, pulling some pretty big bundles of logs up in British Columbia, Canada. Alot of the things they did back in the old days was pretty ingeniuos. People don't seem to have any common sense anymore and the inventions are not as plentyfull as back in the day.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 9, 2015)

i cut a tract a few years ago, was an old arch settin back there the scrappers never found. prolly 8' tall with a pto winch. i bet it sat there since the 50s at least.....had tires but spoke wheels. wish i took a pic.


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## AKDoug (Jun 9, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> Doug tell me more.......i have a chance to buy one reasonable, it has loader tracks on it. it is direct drive. would it be suitable for light road maintenance? does yours have a 6 way blade?


Mine isn't that old. I think the A8 models are the latest ones. It has a six way blade, what they call a hydroshift transmision, inching peddle and decelerator. Joystick on the left for F/R and steering and right hand joystick for the blade. 40Hp and easily towed behind a 1 ton truck. I've done a bunch of road maintenance with mine. Not great for building roads, but great for cleaning them up. Also pretty handy shoving crap around a landing.


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## jwilly (Jul 3, 2015)

Found this on Vermont CL for $4000


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## McPherson (Jul 3, 2015)

Maybe far from you, but some are nowhere everywhere around here, no doubt few machines went through de borders?

http://f4dion.com/produits/f4-dion/


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## chucker (Jul 3, 2015)

jwilly said:


> View attachment 433924
> 
> 
> Found this on Vermont CL for $4000


the corn binder t9's were good working machines as long as you could keep the grease in the cylinders to keep the track's tight! worked just like the first *skid loader's*, hand clutch steering slow and dependable......


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## OlympicYJ (Jul 10, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Berger MK IV or MK VI... if memory serves.
> 
> One of the members here, and my memory is crap lately was playing forester for em last summer...



Waren't thinkin of me were ya Northy?

I got to work around these guys a little. One of the sharpest logger around. Mark VI Berger. 130 foot tower. I heard they were hung out somewhere around 4500 feet.

Another logger near me didn't have a tailhold where he needed it and would have had to hung a helluva long ways out so stretched a line between the hills and made one. called it a Skyhook. just threw a block on it. Realized he would be doing it from the get go and bid it accordingly. Saw pictures of it then the friend that was the contract admin on the job told me about. it.

The video should tell the weights of the cats.


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