# Reasons why we don't burn pressure treated wood.



## DPDISXR4Ti

I'm pretty sure this is not a good idea, but I hate to just throw away a bunch of scrap decking and railing from a 15 year-old deck that I recently dismantled. It would be in a stove, so 99.9% of the fumes would go up the chimney. Any real harm in mixing one "log" in at a time with the regular wood?


----------



## ray benson

Lots of info on the web. This caught my eye.
Burning:Incineration of CCA wood does not destroy arsenic. It is incredible, but a single 12 foot 2 x 6 contains about 27 grams of Arsenic - enough arsenic to kill 250 adults. Burning CCA wood releases the chemical bond holding Arsenic in the wood, and just one Tablespoon of ash from a CCA wood fire contains a lethal dose of Arsenic. Worse yet, Arsenic gives no warning: it does not have a specific taste or odor to warn you of its presence. No one disputes that the ash from burning CCA wood is highly toxic: It is illegal to burn CCA wood in all 50 states. This has serious implications for firefighters, cleanup and landfill operations. 
Even more astonishing, minute amounts of 'fly ash' from burning CCA pressure treated wood, can have serious health consequences. The Journal of the American Medical Association reported on a family that burned CCA in a wood stove for winter heating. Their hair fell out, all family members suffered severe, recurring nosebleeds, extreme fatigue and debilitating headaches. The parents complained about 'blacking out' for periods of several hours, followed by long periods of extreme disorientation. Both children suffered frequent seizures described as 'grand mal'. The symptoms were finally traced to breathing minute amounts of arsenic laden dust leaking from the furnace as fly ash. The family's houseplants and fish died, too, victims of copper poisoning from the same dust. Peters HA, et al: Seasonal exposure to arsenic from burning CCA wood. JAMA 25118)2393-96, 1984)


----------



## ericjeeper

*I think Ray pretty much*

Summed it all up for you? Is it worth the risk?


----------



## DPDISXR4Ti

ericjeeper said:


> Summed it all up for you?



Yea, I think so. :monkey: 

Doing a little more digging, it would appear that CCA-treated wood was outlawed as of Jan 2004, but since this stuff is ~10 years older than that, it's certainly full of arsonic. It'll hit the trash bin for sure now...


----------



## woodbooga

We're not even supposed to bring it to the brush pile at the town dump for the reasons noted above. I hate the idea of any potential fuel being wasted and burn lots of punk and small stuff many would consider garbage. That said, I won't toss even a stick of pressure treated stuff in the woodbox.


----------



## Mike Van

To add to what Ray said, burning CCA releases hydrogen cyanide in the smoke - Some years ago as a power co. lineman [now retired] I got a facefull of the smoke from a CCA pole fire. This wasn't like a campfire where 'oh, smoke in my face' CCA smoke will just stagger you, you can't get your breath, you can't see, it just sucks. Like woodbooga said, I'll burn most anything, but not that stuff. I even hate working with it. Funny, when we first started getting CCA poles, a guy from Koppers came out ' oh, this stuff is great it's so safe' were his words. Compared to what? Plutonium?


----------



## MATTYB11

Good thread. I always knew there was arsenic in that stuff but had no idea that it contained that much. Makes me wonder how much would go airborne just from cutting. who knows in another ten years they may be outlawing the newer acq pressure treat for some other health reason.


----------



## DPDISXR4Ti

MATTYB11 said:


> Makes me wonder how much would go airborne just from cutting.



That was actually my first thought upon reading some of this stuff, having just cut some the other day. Can't worry about what's in the past, but I'll know better next time.


----------



## Geez

Well, in addition to all that's been said already, my main concern is corrosion. The new stuff is arsenic free but MUCH more corrosive. You have to use heavily galvanized or stainless steel fasteners. I saw a pic of a 1/2" bolt that was rusted almost gone in just a couple years. Can you imagine the concentration of those chemicals in your ash? And your firebox? :jawdrop:


----------



## MATTYB11

I believe it is the copper now used in the new pressure treat that corrodes the iron. I think because they are dissimilar metals. Hot dipped galvanized nails hold up well but you can't beat stainless fasteners.


----------



## blis

MATTYB11 said:


> I believe it is the copper now used in the new pressure treat that corrodes the iron. I think because they are dissimilar metals. Hot dipped galvanized nails hold up well but you can't beat stainless fasteners.



atleast over here in finland the modern treated wood is treated with copper sulfide, and yes, it will eat away normal nails really quickly so stainless steel is pretty much the only alternative that will last... just that they cost about 4 times more than galvanized


----------



## dazdmc

Holy #@*+!!!
I have been burning this kind of scrap wood for ages, I get cut offs from our joiners shop and thought I was being good by saving it going to waste. Oh well, that's put an end to that then. Is it any treated wood, or just pressure treated? I have so much treated stuff at home, I am now going to have to dig it all out and make a trip to the dump.

darren


----------



## Geez

All treatments are about the same, pressure treated just gets it deeper into the wood. I feel your pain though. I work for a company that builds a lot of decks and have been saving the 6X6 cut offs for landscaping purposes. I have quite a stack and when wood was running short last winter I started eyeballing them. 
Then all of a sudden the light bulb went on before I threw the first ones in.


----------



## mga

DPDISXR4Ti said:


> I'm pretty sure this is not a good idea, but I hate to just throw away a bunch of scrap decking and railing from a 15 year-old deck that I recently dismantled. It would be in a stove, so 99.9% of the fumes would go up the chimney. Any real harm in mixing one "log" in at a time with the regular wood?




people who burn pressure treated wood and trash in their fireplaces gives a bad rep for all the others who burn responsibly.

this is one reason why so many towns are addressing OWB's these days. please, don't do things that will make the government go after regular fireplaces or wood stoves.

burn responsibly.


----------



## dazdmc

To be honest if I had known this in the past I never would have burned it, but I like many others have been ignorant to this fact. I have just been up to the joinery shop to tell them just how bad it is and they are going to tell everyone that picks up the cut offs for burning. I don't know what the laws are in Britain, but I have not been able to find anything so far, I do know they are not usually as strict as they are on your side of the pond, but regardless of the laws I will no longer be burning any treated wood Apart from the environmental issues I have a wife and two young daughters at home that I would not want subjected to any poisons, as well as that we are surrounded by sheep and cattle fields as well as soft fruit farms. The amount of times I have sat in the garden at night with friends and had an old oil barel filled with this stuff burning away and never knew it was that bad, so thanks to the originator of the post and for the answers from the rest of you guys. I am hopefully a little wiser about it now.

cheers
daz


----------



## coppermouse

I have been looking for a way to convince my best buddy it was a bad idea, and this was just what I needed, thanks for the info.


----------



## TallElf

so just a silly question.... HOW DO YOU DISPOSE OF PRESSURE TREATED WOOD?


----------



## chugbug

How about creosote like in railroad ties , I was told it turns to an acid when burned in a stove and would be corrosive and possibly deteriorate the firebox.I would assume there would be some bad health affects also.


----------



## mga

DPDISXR4Ti said:


> I'm pretty sure this is not a good idea, but I hate to just throw away a bunch of scrap decking and railing from a 15 year-old deck that I recently dismantled. It would be in a stove, so 99.9% of the fumes would go up the chimney. Any real harm in mixing one "log" in at a time with the regular wood?



you should be arrested.

YOU may not be breathing in the toxins, but what about those on the outside???

burning crap in your wood burner is just more fuel for those opposed to wood burning.

dispose of it properly.


----------



## Mike Van

chugbug said:


> How about creosote like in railroad ties , I was told it turns to an acid when burnt in a stove and would be corrosive and possibly deteriorate the firebox.I would assume there would be some bad health affects also.



None of the chemicals used to treat wood like CCA, Pentachlorophenol , or creosote should be burned. While it may be some 'free heat' to some, others have to breathe the chemicals released in the smoke.  Tallelf, as far as I know, it gets landfilled, unless they're burning it with stack scrubbers or the like at some trash to energy plant.


----------



## A. Stanton

I was just told by a worker at the local lumber yard that they no longer sell galvanized fasteners for the new PT wood. It's too corrosive. Now they only sell ya coated fasteners.


----------



## danrclem

I have often thought about burning treated wood but instinctively knew that it could be dangerous. I'm glad that this information was posted.

If you want to get rid of the wood put a free ad on craigslist. I'm sure that a deer hunter would love to have it for a tree stand.


----------



## WetBehindtheEar

mga said:


> you should be arrested.
> 
> YOU may not be breathing in the toxins, but what about those on the outside???
> 
> burning crap in your wood burner is just more fuel for those opposed to wood burning.
> 
> dispose of it properly.



He was just asking the question to gather information *before* he started burining his scrap treated lumber.

He wrote later in the thread that he wasn't going to do it.


----------



## Moss Man

In the past I have avoided using pressure teated lumber by using Hemlock lumber instead. It is very rugged and if the surface is treated faithfully over it's life, it lasts just as long as the poisonous pressure treated.

I wouldn't give the guy a hard time for asking what to do with it, at least he had the courtesy to come and ask and not just chuck it in the stove and be done with it.


----------



## gink595

mga said:


> you should be arrested.



Who are you, the police? Your awful giddy, a guy asks a question and you keep pounding on him like he is the poster child for burning CCA. From what I've read this post was very informative to others that have burned it and didn't know any harmful effects. You should be happy he asked instead of bashing him for trying to do the right thing, lighten up!


----------



## rtrsam

I have always separated out treated lumber from my burn piles, etc. The only really safe, legal way to dispose of it (as well as sawdust from cutting or drilling) is as a hazardous waste. 

A few years back a big tree fell across a footbridge I'd built across a canyon and destroyed it. I spent a couple weeks out there collecting all the pressure treated splinters, cutting up the big chunks of pressure treated beams (pulled them out of the canyon and sawed them up atop blankets of geotextile fabric laid down to collect the sawdust). It took a while and was a pain in the neck, but I could sit back afterward and realize I had done the right thing to the best of my abilities. All scrap was then disposed of properly, transported to a haz-waste facility. I kept a few of the big blocks of sawn up scrap to use as dunnage.

But I always thought, hell, regular wood smoke is plenty toxic, the CO, CO2 and other stuff will kill you. Never realized the ash was so bad (as well as smoke from PT wood being much worse). At least I can honestly say I've always treated the stuff as safely as possible. 

Nowadays, about the only thing you can really legally burn in a burn pile or woodstove or anywhere else is "green waste," natural logs, or chunks of wood specifically made for burning (such as pellets and fireplace logs). Scrap lumber is generally not to be burned, especially if it has any fasteners stuck in it. I still find a few nails in burn piles after I've burned them but I try to keep them out. Painted wood scraps (demolition debris) is also definitely not to be burned.


----------



## DPDISXR4Ti

mga said:


> you should be arrested.
> dispose of it properly.



Perhaps you should look into getting a life? :notrolls2: 

Back on topic.... Just remember, if you need to cut it up (for disposal or in general), wear a respirator of some sort.


----------



## Orange Hill

I don't see a problem with burning scrap lumber as long as it is clean; no paint or finish. I also don't see the problem of burning clean wood with nails or screws, the only danger there is in cutting the wood and that is where the Sawzall comes into play. If it is a burn pile where the fasteners can be stepped on or driven on that should be considered.


----------



## bore_pig

DPDISXR4Ti said:


> Back on topic.... Just remember, if you need to cut it up (for disposal or in general), wear a respirator of some sort.



No need for the respirator. Burning is what released the toxins. Wash your hands before eating though.


----------



## jdboy9

I'm curious now like others asked how do you get rid of the stuff? I know dumpsters have all sorts of regulations on them but from what I can remember I don't believe PT wood was in the no dump list.


----------



## mga

DPDISXR4Ti said:


> Perhaps you should look into getting a life? :notrolls2:
> 
> Back on topic.... Just remember, if you need to cut it up (for disposal or in general), wear a respirator of some sort.



point is, man, that there are many groups out there opposing wood burning and they're growing in numbers every day as wood use becomes more popular. what we don't need are people burning pressure treated wood. hell, even the labels state NOT to burn them.

granted, no one knows what you throw in the fire, but, the last thing you should do is advertise your intentions.

i got a life, and i don't need others throwing carcinogens in the air to shorten it.


----------



## Booshcat

> granted, no one knows what you throw in the fire, but, the last thing you should do is advertise your intentions.
> 
> i got a life, and i don't need others throwing carcinogens in the air to shorten it.



You just don't get it, or you didn't read his post carefully. HE WAS NOT ANNOUNCING INTENTIONS TO DO ANYTHING. HE WAS ASKING FOR ADVICE, WHICH HE RECEIVED FROM *MOST* OF THE REPLIES.


----------



## mtfallsmikey

Call your local sanitation authority/landfill for disposal advice and...don't get any splinters from that chit in your hands!


----------

