# Ivy - friend or foe



## Don R (May 27, 2009)

Our neighbor has lots of Ivy in his yard and left unchecked for 8 years; which has crept into ours. We're in the process of removing it on our side as it's killing our plants. 

The Ivy has crept a rather tall Pine tree, 80+ years old and we have concerns that it will eventually kill that tree and many others that border our properties. It so happens that this tree is on both of our property lines and leans toward our house due to the sun. My wife and I would like to remove the Ivy, our neighbor likes the Ivy. What would serve the tree best - keeping or removing the Ivy?

Also, looking for a recommendation for a commercial tree company in SE Michigan.

Thanks...


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## TreeClimber57 (May 27, 2009)

Don R said:


> Our neighbor has lots of Ivy in his yard and left unchecked for 8 years; which has crept into ours. We're in the process of removing it on our side as it's killing our plants.
> 
> The Ivy has crept a rather tall Pine tree, 80+ years old and we have concerns that it will eventually kill that tree and many others that border our properties. It so happens that this tree is on both of our property lines and leans toward our house due to the sun. My wife and I would like to remove the Ivy, our neighbor likes the Ivy. What would serve the tree best - keeping or removing the Ivy?
> 
> ...



Well personally I have no love for Ivy.

However, let me pull a couple of quotes for you:

"English ivy and its close cousin Atlantic or Irish ivy are well-known European vines that have been widely used in North America landscapes. Because this type of vine is evergreen and well-adapted to the mild Pacific Northwest climate, it grows all year round in western Washington and can out-compete many other plant species. This aggressively spreading vine can cover everything in its reach and has no natural checks and balances to keep it under control.


In the understory of forests, English ivy spreads over the ground and crowds out native wildflowers, ferns and tree seedlings. Ivy mats often host pest animals such as the Norway rat. Also, because ivy roots are shallow, thick mats covering hillsides can increase problems with slope failure as water runs down under the ivy and entire mats of ivy and soil slide downhill. On walls and fences, ivy rootlets work into the wood and mortar and can cause structural and aethestic damage.

When English ivy is allowed to grow up tree trunks it can increase the risk of the trees being blown over in windstorms because of its large mass and “sail effect” of the vines in the canopy. Tree bark is more likely to have disease and rot problems and the tree health can be damaged by reduced access to light when the vines cover the tree’s branches. Although ivy won’t directly poison the tree, it will most likely harm the tree’s health and increase the chance of it becoming a hazard tree."

"Ivy kills deciduous trees within 20 years of climbing the tree!"

Personally I would try and protect the tree. But you need to discuss with your neighbour.


As for tree company, sorry, no idea.


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## randyg (May 27, 2009)

*Don't remove the ivy*

Cut out a section of the vine at ground level, the ivy will self-remove over next couple years. 

Tree within striking distance of house (1)
Tree leans towards house (2)
??????????????? (3)


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## BlackenedTimber (May 27, 2009)

In my opinion, Ivy is garbage. I hate working around that stuff. Your neighbor loves it because its not doing any damage to HIS/HER property and HIS/HER tree. I can't give you all of the specifics, cause I just plain don't know, but I have eencountered alot of trees that seemed to bee "strangled" by ivy. I am not sure if it is from competition between the tree and the ivy, or because the presence of ivy makes the host tree more prone to disease and decay, but most of the trees I have personally climbed that were covered with English Ivy have either been dead, or had to be removed because they were too far gone.

I would have a chat with your neighbor. I would ask him/her politely to keep his/her ivy on his/her property. As for your tree, I dont see anything good coming from having Ivy climbing all over it.

My 2 cents, now who hid my bottle of Jim Beam?!?


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 27, 2009)

randyg said:


> Cut out a section of the vine at ground level, the ivy will self-remove over next couple years.



What he said. Here we have problems with grape and bittersweet, all I do is cut the vine so that is above head height, then the vine dies and falls apart.

Check out this search: http://www.dogpile.com/dogpile/ws/r...e/iq=true/zoom=off/_iceUrlFlag=7?_IceUrl=true


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## treeseer (May 27, 2009)

A compromise is to get a ladder and clip the ivy at a height that leaves the asset for the neighbor but removes the liability for you.

Ivy stabilizes trees and does not compete for sunlight when it is kept off the branches. I have several trees I visit every 3 years or so to clip the ivy or other vines back. Vines

]from the attached

Codit was , pruners in hand, looking a vine growing on a pine tree. “Codit, what are you doing?” 

Codit dropped the hand pruners. “Just looking, Dendro.” “I know some vines strangle trees, but since my new book says that arboriculture is the integrated management of landscape trees, shrubs-- like those waxmyrtles we worked on--, and vines, I was checking to see if it was a weed”.

“No cut without a reason, you got it” Electra smiled. “Vines can be vile or valuable, according to the observer’s view. That is Campsis radicans, trumpetcreeper, and the next tree has Parthenocissus quinquefolia, Virginia creeper. They are clinging vines like English ivy, not twiners like Wisteria floribunda and Lonicera japonica, which strangle the trees that support them.”



I just sprayed a bunch of ivy creeping over from neighbor's yard w roundup. kilt it daid; i was surprised.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 27, 2009)

treeseer said:


> I just sprayed a bunch of ivy creeping over from neighbor's yard w roundup. kilt it daid; i was surprised.



How about kudzu, Guy?


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## treesquirrel (May 27, 2009)

All I know is I hate climbing a damn tree covered in ivy.


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## chip's-tree (May 27, 2009)

*Ivy hater*

a tree covered in Ivy can make for some nerve racking work....the HO that grew it is not the one cutting the trees..I hate Ivy so I would kill it all.


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## treeseer (May 28, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> How about kudzu, Guy?


well funny you should ask; just the other day I attacked some that had overtaken a grape arbor. when it resprouts from the roots i will try roundup but may have to go with stronger stuff.

kudzu makes english ivy look harmless.


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## outofmytree (May 28, 2009)

I like ivy........























it makes pretty colours as the chipper sprays it into the truck.

Guy is a big softie, nuke that crap! 

My personal favourite is to cut the creeper at ground level and again at 1 metre. Its about the only job I ALWAYS do with hand tools to avoid bark damage.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 28, 2009)

treeseer said:


> well funny you should ask; just the other day I attacked some that had overtaken a grape arbor. when it resprouts from the roots i will try roundup but may have to go with stronger stuff.
> 
> kudzu makes english ivy look harmless.



Roundup has a Poison Ivy formula with a Garlon spike.


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## Don R (May 28, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your replies


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## pdqdl (May 29, 2009)

Garlon is Triclopyr, a fairly good brush killer. I couldn't find any labeled product with roundup. Sprayed on foliage of vine and not onto tree (except bark) would probably work fairly well.

*Best*: Cut vines at the ground level and treat stump ends with tordon; be careful not to overdo it. 

*Safest*: Cut vines at the ground level and treat stump ends with Roundup, straight with high quality surfactant added. 

*Cheapest and most effective for the $*: I wiped out a whole bunch of poison ivy last year that was climbing up nearly all the trees in a 48 building complex of apartments under renovation. Method: backpack sprayer & tordon with a nice jolt of 2,4-D added. Spray as high as you can on the trunk without hitting any foliage. Do NOT spray to runoff; only to splatter most of the leaves lightly.

This was a pretty radical approach, but they had a big problem, and they weren't interested in spending a lot of money on "slow & careful".

*************************************************
There are only a couple of trees dead this year, and they had massive construction related compaction as well as looking bad before any work was started last year. So I think we did it about right.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 29, 2009)

http://www.scotts.com/smg/products/... Poison Ivy _ Tough Brush Killer Plus RTU.pdf

RTU mix
Glyphosate 1%
Tryclopyr .1%

I have a jug of the concentrate in my garage. 18 & 2 % respectively


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## asthesun (May 29, 2009)

Don R said:


> Our neighbor has lots of Ivy in his yard and left unchecked for 8 years; which has crept into ours. We're in the process of removing it on our side as it's killing our plants.
> 
> The Ivy has crept a rather tall Pine tree, 80+ years old and we have concerns that it will eventually kill that tree and many others that border our properties. It so happens that this tree is on both of our property lines and leans toward our house due to the sun. My wife and I would like to remove the Ivy, our neighbor likes the Ivy. What would serve the tree best - keeping or removing the Ivy?
> 
> ...



you have rights to anything over your property. if she gives you trouble about removing it, cut the whole tree off at the fence line. english ivy takes a while to get to the point where it will kill a tree and is generally not nearly as aggressive as other types of vine. vines arent parasitic in the way that mistle toe is, leeching off of the tree, but if they reach the canopy, they will choke out the sunlight and can kill the tree. you can either keep the vines under control by cutting them back a bit or tell your neighbor to sod off and cut whatever you want thats on your side


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 29, 2009)

> if she gives you trouble about removing it, cut the whole tree off at the fence line.



That can be problematic these days; the old notion that we have property rights "to the sky" is being preempted by case law that holds people accountable for their actions. People have been found liable for damage resulting from cutting roots on their property, and over pruning that killed the subject tree.

Just because the case was not tried in your jurisdiction does not mean that the findings of the other court are not admissible. Courts in Milwaukee can consider precedence set in Miami.


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## asthesun (May 29, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> That can be problematic these days; the old notion that we have property rights "to the sky" is being preempted by case law that holds people accountable for their actions. People have been found liable for damage resulting from cutting roots on their property, and over pruning that killed the subject tree.
> 
> Just because the case was not tried in your jurisdiction does not mean that the findings of the other court are not admissible. Courts in Milwaukee can consider precedence set in Miami.



well that might work in your favor, sue her cuz her vines are killing your plants.


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## treeseer (May 29, 2009)

asthesun said:


> well that might work in your favor, sue her cuz her vines are killing your plants.


wrong again--once the vine crosses the line you own it. Bad idea telling neighbors to sod off whatever that means. worse idea to cut to the line; JPS has it right.


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## asthesun (May 30, 2009)

treeseer said:


> wrong again--once the vine crosses the line you own it. Bad idea telling neighbors to sod off whatever that means. worse idea to cut to the line; JPS has it right.



so then once the tree crosses the line you own that too, which was my original point


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 30, 2009)

asthesun said:


> so then once the tree crosses the line you own that too, which was my original point



Not that simple; it is in joint ownership, so both parties may have responsibility towards preservation. If radical trimming causes the tree do die, it leaves the other party with at least a financial liability. If the tree work creates a defect that causes property damage or bodily injury then the practitioner and the client have been held liable. 

I heard of one case where the work caused a defect where a reasonable person could assume there was a greatly elevated risk of failure and the courts required the practitioner to finish removal at his own cost. My recollection is to the effect that he had no proof that he told the client that the treatment could cause the tree to fail.

These cases are few and far between, but one should be aware of them. 

I have a staged removal of a massive willow that I always offered to remove the entire tree each year. It is 1/3 to 1/2 done and the client is selling the house now. I'm mildly concerned that the new owners may want me to do something for nothing since I am the knowledgeable party.


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## mckeetree (May 30, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> These cases are few and far between, but one should be aware of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Few and far, far between.


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## treeseer (May 30, 2009)

asthesun said:


> so then once the tree crosses the line you own that too, which was my original point


True, but you have no right to damage or destroy your neighbor's property in their part of the tree.
When in doubt, try Kant's categorical imperative aka the Golden Rule.

These cases are not all that rare; I've had a dozen at least.


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## John D (May 30, 2009)

treeseer said:


> True, but you have no right to damage or destroy your neighbor's property in their part of the tree.
> When in doubt, try Kant's categorical imperative aka the Golden Rule.
> 
> These cases are not all that rare; I've had a dozen at least.



Ivy is a threat to humans and pets who go near it,I get poison ivy anytime im near it doing yar work.I'd remove it at the property line ,dont tell me a judge would rule against you removing there ivy from your yard esp considering it is a risk to you ,and presents no benefit to either party.


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## asthesun (May 31, 2009)

John D said:


> Ivy is a threat to humans and pets who go near it,I get poison ivy anytime im near it doing yar work.I'd remove it at the property line ,dont tell me a judge would rule against you removing there ivy from your yard esp considering it is a risk to you ,and presents no benefit to either party.



didnt he say it was ivy, not poison ivy specifically? its kind of vague but i assumed it wasnt poison since, i mean, who wouldnt want poison ivy removed?


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