# vt and a hitch climber



## Adkpk (May 13, 2009)

Just a pic. It was my first attempt with this setup. I was mostly impressed with the touch control of the vt. real smooth. The setup was definitely a step up from the blakes. I hip thrusted up 50' the the first limb. And I must say it was a breeze. Thrust pull, thrust pull and there I was. I already have an upgrade in mind.


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## masiman (May 13, 2009)

I don't get what the two biners hooked together are for (hooked into your tending pulley). They seem to be hooked to a backup prusic on the load leg of your rope?

Just curious. I need to get mine set up also.


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## Tree Pig (May 13, 2009)

masiman said:


> I don't get what the two biners hooked together are for (hooked into your tending pulley). They seem to be hooked to a backup prusic on the load leg of your rope?
> 
> Just curious. I need to get mine set up also.



The load end hitch is what advances the tending pulley, as the load end goes up the hitch raises bringing the pulley and your climbing hitch with it. Not sure why two biners though.


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

Yeah, that setup looks a little strange to me. But I am not climbing on a hitch climber so what do I know. Hard to keep up with all of these new fangled ways.

I have been working the past week on a VT with a regular micro pulley. Sweet knot! This set up is so slick! Tends slack like a dream! Only thing is I am having to get used to the fluency of the knot, I've got a rope burn on my neck and shoulder from leaning into my rope while going out on a limb and leaning into it while trying to stabilize for cuts. It runs a lot smoother and is more fluent than any knot I have used before and it doesn't grip as well as other knots I've used, hence the rope burn. Just takes a sec to snug it up before you put some weight on it is all. No biggie, I'm still getting used to it. I am loving it for getting around the tree and working though. So much smoother than anything I have worked off of before.


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

Here's how I'm running mine. Other biner is on my saddle:


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## Tree Pig (May 14, 2009)

tree md said:


> Here's how I'm running mine. Other biner is on my saddle:



what technique you climbing with that looks like a huge pull to take up slack and advance the not any.


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## pdqdl (May 14, 2009)

My limited use of the VT suggests that it is great on a flipline/buckstrap/lanyard (what do we call that thing now-a-days?), but that it needs to be tied fairly short to avoid all the extra pulling to take up slack on a DRT, as mentioned by Stihl-O-Matic. (I agree!)

If you use a short tresse rope, then the darn thing is too low to your belt to climb with. The answer, in my humble opinion, is to rig another rope from your tending pulley down to your belt attachment. [As shown in the first pic starting this thread!] This keeps the VT up where you can use it, and short enough to eliminate all the extra slack in the hitch.

A popular alternative to the VT is the Distel, which behaves somewhat like the VT, but doesn't contain nearly so much slack within the hitch itself.


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

Yeah, I need to shorten the prussic up a bit I believe. I have only used it on three removals so far. I did hip thrust with it a little just to try it out. It was a lot smoother than the regular prussic I normally use with a regular split tail. I am going to try foot locking with it on a large removal I plan to do next week (on the bad tree) if it ever quits raining here. I'll see how it works on that. I need to do a little tweaking I believe but the knot runs like a dream when walking out on limbs.


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> My limited use of the VT suggests that it is great on a flipline/buckstrap/lanyard (what do we call that thing now-a-days?), but that it needs to be tied fairly short to avoid all the extra pulling to take up slack on a DRT, mentioned by Stihl-O-Matic.
> 
> If you use a short tresse, then the darn thing is too low to your belt to climb with. The answer, in my humble opinion, is to rig another rope from your tending pulley down to your belt attachement. This keeps the VT up where you can use it, and short enough to eliminate all the extra slack in the hitch.
> 
> A popular alternative to the VT is the Distel, which behaves somewhat like the VT, but doesn't contain nearly so much slack within the hitch itself.



What length prussic would you suggest for the Distel? I want to try that knot as well.


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

Also, thanks for the suggestion on the rope attachment for the micro pulley. that makes a lot of sense.


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## Ghillie (May 14, 2009)

masiman said:


> I don't get what the two biners hooked together are for (hooked into your tending pulley). They seem to be hooked to a backup prusic on the load leg of your rope?
> 
> Just curious. I need to get mine set up also.



I think he has it set up as an extended bridge. the terminal end of the line runs down through his attachment on the saddle and up to the lower biner. the third biner is for attachment of the prusik keeping the hitch climber rig from getting out of reach while hip thrusting.


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## Ghillie (May 14, 2009)

tree md said:


> What length prussic would you suggest for the Distel? I want to try that knot as well.



So far I have tried 30" eye to eye but I think I can go down to 26" without any problem. That' with Icetail and spliced eyes on 1/2" rope.


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> I think he has it set up as an extended bridge. the terminal end of the line runs down through his attachment on the saddle and up to the lower biner. the third biner is for attachment of the prusik keeping the hitch climber rig from getting out of reach while hip thrusting.



I think I saw that in the PDF link JPS put up on the hitch climber. Looks like Adkpk has been studying!


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## Ghillie (May 14, 2009)

tree md said:


> Here's how I'm running mine. Other biner is on my saddle:



Have you tried clipping the pulley directly to the 'biner you are tieing your hitch to, between the scaffold hitches?


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## pdqdl (May 14, 2009)

Uhhh... That's a bit tricky.

Tie up as short a VT as you feel comfortable with. I think mine is about 30" before I tie any knots in it. I use double fisherman, looks like you do too. Rig your tending pulley, carbiners, all the other stuff, and put it where you think you would like it to be when you climb.

Measure the distance from your bridge/D rings/saddle to the botttom hardware of friction knot assembly. Make a little rope bridge that spans that distance, and you're in business.

I noticed that your VT has too many crossovers. You should have 7 loops total. (four loops on top, crossover1, then crossover on the other side of the rope, then clipped to carabiner & slack tender pulley) Given the length that you were working with, you probably needed the extra wraps to make it hold well. I'll bet you like it much better after you make it a good bit shorter with fewer, tighter wraps. I'd take that existing tress-rope you have, and see how much I could shorten it by moving one knot up the line until it acted right with only 7 loops.

The VT I use on my buckstrap is probably only 6"-8" long when loaded down with my weight, so there is not much slack to take up when I yank on the free end.


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> Have you tried clipping the pulley directly to the 'biner you are tieing your hitch to, between the scaffold hitches?



That's where it is clipped Ghillie...Or am I missing what your saying??? I have the pulley clipped between the two eyes on the biner.


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## Ghillie (May 14, 2009)

tree md said:


> That's where it is clipped Ghillie...Or am I missing what your saying??? I have the pulley clipped between the two eyes on the biner.



Try it without the boat snap.


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## Ghillie (May 14, 2009)

Heres a pic of my lanyard with a distel. I ended up taking about 1 1/2" out of each leg of the cordage (squares on the mat are 1" for reference).


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## pdqdl (May 14, 2009)

Another thing you might try, when you get the length all figured out: get your VT all set up, hold the pulley in between the two fisherman's knots, then pin the whole assembly with just one carabiner. 

Less metal in the way, and it presses the tail of the rope into the pulley very nicely. Then roll the carabiner around so that throat opens on the downward side, and then you have only one carabiner holding the whole mess together...and it is still available for attaching to whatever you want to hang from it.

Look real close, and that is pretty close to how it is rigged in the starting photo to this thread, before you add the "hitch climber" parts.

I don't know what thread it was in, but I learned that little trick here on AS.


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Uhhh... That's a bit tricky.
> 
> Tie up as short a VT as you feel comfortable with. I think mine is about 30" before I tie any knots in it. I use double fisherman, looks like you do too. Rig your tending pulley, carbiners, all the other stuff, and put it where you think you would like it to be when you climb.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I did throw another braid in it while I was climbing to try to give it a little more resistance and shorten it up a little. I like my hitch to move pretty freely so I like that aspect of it but I would prefer it to grab a little quicker without having to tend it so much. I will leave it the length it is and slif the knot up as you suggested and play with it until I get it dialed in. Great advice thanks a lot! So I need to take out 1 braid and I'm good to go (as far as properly tied)? 

Here is a pic of it standing on the line so you get a better idea of what I'm working with.


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Another thing you might try, when you get the length all figured out: get your VT all set up, hold the pulley in between the two fisherman's knots, then pin the whole assembly with just one carabiner.
> 
> Less metal in the way, and it presses the tail of the rope into the pulley very nicely. Then roll the carabiner around so that throat opens on the downward side, and then you have only one carabiner holding the whole mess together...and it is still available for attaching to whatever you want to hang from it.
> 
> ...



Capitol Idea!!!:yoyo:


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## Ghillie (May 14, 2009)

tree md said:


> Capitol Idea!!!:yoyo:




He explained it a lot better than I did. I guess I should be a man of a few more words.


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## Adkpk (May 14, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> The load end hitch is what advances the tending pulley, as the load end goes up the hitch raises bringing the pulley and your climbing hitch with it. Not sure why two biners though.



I think I need the second biner in order to detach the prusik after the ascent. 



Ghillie said:


> I think he has it set up as an extended bridge. the terminal end of the line runs down through his attachment on the saddle and up to the lower biner. the third biner is for attachment of the prusik keeping the hitch climber rig from getting out of reach while hip thrusting.



Thanks Ghillie, this is true. I was so tired last night I had no strength to write it all down. And now I am late for work but hope to get a better pic and more explanation. 



tree md said:


> I think I saw that in the PDF link JPS put up on the hitch climber. Looks like Adkpk has been studying!



Big thanks tree md. I am fascinated with tree work and life and strength of trees, lately. I appreciate you pointing it out.


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## canopyboy (May 14, 2009)

I recently started using the VT as well and absolutely love it. I keep it real short though compared to most I've seen. The prusik is about 27" eye-to-eye on 7/16" line. I only use one biner. The whole thing stretches out less than 12" when loaded. I started with the pulley between the two prusik eyes on the biner, but also found a snap directly to the rope worked just as well for me. No problems at all with it grabbing if I'm not touching the knot (had more problems with it before shortening). And of course as soon as you just tickle the knot it will move for you like no other knot I've tried. Did I mention that I love it?


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## Tree Pig (May 14, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> I think I need the second biner in order to detach the prusik after the ascent.




ya but there is two above the pulley wouldnt one do the same thing.


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## masiman (May 14, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> I think he has it set up as an extended bridge. the terminal end of the line runs down through his attachment on the saddle and up to the lower biner. the third biner is for attachment of the prusik keeping the hitch climber rig from getting out of reach while hip thrusting.



Thanks Stihl-o-matic and Ghillie.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 14, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> what technique you climbing with that looks like a huge pull to take up slack and advance the not any.



Looks like 3x the cordage needed.


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

Thanks for the advice Treeco. I really appreciate it. I would go out and try to work with it today to get it dialed in but it won't stop raining!!!


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

Ha, so far I have shed a biner and a micro-pulley from this setup. I like it when you can simplify things in your climbing system!


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 14, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Your tress cord is way too long! It needs about eight inches off of each leg, IMO. See attached picture.



I'd take 18 off of one side


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I'd take 18 off of one side



That's why I like tied eyes, easier to adjust for needed length. 

Thanks for the advice.


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## Ghillie (May 14, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> ya but there is two above the pulley wouldnt one do the same thing.



If you have the third 'biner attaching your "length minding prusik", you do not have to open your loaded line and system to change it. That way you never have an open biner that may become suddenly loaded. IE... you don't have to make a second attachment point to remove that prusik.

hmmmm...... why would you need to remove that prusik unless you are attaching directly to your harness and opening up the system anyway??

Alas, I have confused myself.


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## Bermie (May 14, 2009)

I really don't see why you need that third biner at the top.
If you need to lengthen the setup initially and temporarily to enable a good reach for hip thrusting, just use a loop runner at the bottom, then take it out once you get up to your tip.

I hand over hand the slack above the VT for few feet, then pull the slack through, once I'm up a reasonable distance the weight of the rope pulls it through, it also works well with a pantin.

I agree though, its 'da bomb' for branch walking and manouvering in the canopy.

The hichclimber is the next evolution from just a single hole slack tending pulley, it looks like a lot of kit but it really doesn't get in the way or cause any additional problems than just a single biner and pulley.


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## LTREES (May 14, 2009)

Thanks fellas, I learned something here. I will try the load prussic out tomorrow. I have been using the VT for about a month and really like it. I use a 30" prussic cord, just picked the cheap one to try it. I would like to go shorter yet, and try a better grade of cord.

LT...


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## tree md (May 14, 2009)

I shortened mine up with about 4 or 5 inches of tail behind each of my double fisherman's knots and it seems to be grabbing a little better on the line. That's just playing around on the ground though. I have to grind stumps tomorrow and it's supposed to rain some more this weekend so I won't get a chance to climb on it until I do a large removal I have scheduled for next week. I've got three braids under 4 coils right now but will take one out if need be. I'll trim the ends of the prussic once I get it dialed in. Thanks for the advice all. I'll take some more pics and let you guys tell me if it looks OK later.


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## oldirty (May 14, 2009)

one too many biners bob. and i thought you hated that thing?! lol


i also am not really getting how you are running it but that's cool. where'd you see it set up like that?

i clip the bottom biner to my bridge and run the prussic ( martin) off that same biner. then in the second hole i clip the biner that i deadend to. i do not have a spliced climbing line and i find the scaffold/double fisherman knot that i terminate with gets in the way if in the first hole (top hole if looking down at it) when the knot is trying to set it self. so i go with the top hole open. 

i am thinking that if you run it they same way your spliced eye can go in the top hole no problem.

also as bermie said, if i want to get some serious hand over hand going add a sling and biner. cow hitch to the bottom biner of the hitchclimber and clip the slinged biner to your bridge. bang, hand over hand like crazy.

that said. i absolutely love to footlock this thing as is on my bridge. all you are doing is holding the rope because its your feet that are pulling the slack. its the bomb for just hopping on your rig and going. 

have fun with that thing man. stay safe!


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## Adkpk (May 14, 2009)

oldirty said:


> one too many biners bob. and i thought you hated that thing?! lol
> 
> 
> i also am not really getting how you are running it but that's cool. where'd you see it set up like that?



Ya know, I did send the first one back. But then I needed to do a traverse (and still need to that traverse). I was searching for ideas and wound up on the treemagineers, hitch climber web site. Once I saw how you keep it out of your face by setting it up like in my pic I wanted to try again. I honestly didn't think there was hope for me to hip thrust up a tree and was amazed at how easily I got to where I did on my first attempt.

I've yet to use it for limb walking. But see how well the hitch performs compared to a blakes. If it is not set it will run but once you get it set it's quite a danty knot. 

I am working on the setup and will post when I get it straight.


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## oldirty (May 14, 2009)

is the dead end (spliced end) of your rope going under your bridge and then clipping to the biner?


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## Adkpk (May 14, 2009)

oldirty said:


> is the dead end (spliced end) of your rope going under your bridge and then clipping to the biner?



Ya. Look it up, google treemagineers, hitch climber and scroll down a bit till you see the different uses for the thing.


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## oldirty (May 14, 2009)

i shall.


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## Adkpk (May 14, 2009)

I can't find the the page I saw it on. They use a biner with a little pulley thing on it to do what I was doing. Which is to give some rope without the setup in your face to grab and pull up on. If you hitch climber's aren't sending the hitch climber mass of metal up the rope so it's not right in front of you then please try that biner with the pulley and a prusik and get a life. :greenchainsaw: Or do what I did. What Bermie described, grabing the rope over the setup sounds like torture to me. 

They sell those biners at the local rock climbing store and I will try to get one tomorrow. With that thing all you need to do is unclip the biner and put your prusik away and your ready to limb walk.


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## oldirty (May 14, 2009)

i dont know man. i limb walk with it and ascend with it the same way. ( unless i add that sling and biner, which is seldom)


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## Adkpk (May 14, 2009)

When I first set that thing up like you originally posted I was cursing you out. :biggrinbounce2: I couldn't figure out how to pull up on the rope so I sent it back. Then like I said, I saw how to move it up the rope with the prusik. Now I'm back to sweet talking you so don't worry. :greenchainsaw: 

I would really like to see someone do what you all claim you do with that setup. Bermie?


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## oldirty (May 14, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> When I first set that thing up like you originally posted I was cursing you out. :



i think that pic you are talking about i had the prussic on the top biner as well as deadending to top biner. i have since moved the prussic to the bottom biner.


when the next rec climb?


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## Adkpk (May 14, 2009)

oldirty said:


> i think that pic you are talking about i had the prussic on the top biner as well as deadending to top biner. i have since moved the prussic to the bottom biner.
> 
> 
> when the next rec climb?



I am open for the rest of the summer. Get a crew together and come spend the weekend. I got trees and camping area's and a bathroom to boot.


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## masiman (May 15, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> I can't find the the page I saw it on. They use a biner with a little pulley thing on it to do what I was doing. Which is to give some rope without the setup in your face to grab and pull up on. If you hitch climber's aren't sending the hitch climber mass of metal up the rope so it's not right in front of you then please try that biner with the pulley and a prusik and get a life. :greenchainsaw: Or do what I did. What Bermie described, grabing the rope over the setup sounds like torture to me.



I think it is on page 19 of their Hitchclimbers guide, Managing Slack: Floating Prussic.


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## Adkpk (May 15, 2009)

I limb walked today and found it was like taking the elevator instead of the stairs. Man that vt is a great hitch.


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## Tree Pig (May 15, 2009)

I havent had any luck with the VT still, I can get it to work but just cant get the trust level up on it. The distel on the other hand I am falling in love with. I almost hated to untie today the thing was running so well (maybe need to start leaving it on the line). Anyone truly used both and can give an honest comparison on the two?


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## Adkpk (May 15, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I havent had any luck with the VT still, I can get it to work but just cant get the trust level up on it. The distel on the other hand I am falling in love with. I almost hated to untie today the thing was running so well (maybe need to start leaving it on the line). Anyone truly compared the two and can give an honest comparison on the two?



Like I said before I used for over a year on my lanyard so I don't have any problem trusting it.


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## canopyboy (May 15, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I havent had any luck with the VT still, I can get it to work but just cant get the trust level up on it. The distel on the other hand I am falling in love with. I almost hated to untie today the thing was running so well (maybe need to start leaving it on the line). Anyone truly used both and can give an honest comparison on the two?



No, but after reading about the Distel lovers on this site I'm thinking of trying it for a few climbs so that I can see how it compares. Moss was also talking about the XT which seems to be a combination of the two and sounds interesting. All in due time though....


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## Adkpk (May 16, 2009)

I take back my torture statement. After the initial ascent yesterday I attached the set up directly to my bridge reset the line and discovered it works real well pulling down over the hitch and tending slack with the other. Bravo for the hitch climber. Oh ya and as far as where your hitch is for limb walking it's perfect. No more reaching for the blakes.


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## oldirty (May 16, 2009)

it really is that good. 

bravo indeed!


good job bob.


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## simplypete (May 17, 2009)

*termination knot?*

I'm curious about a few things. I just got a hitchclimber in the mail the other day. I've seen the hitchclimber used with a spliced line and was wondering about using a knot as the termination. I was just thinking that the end knot termination would interfere with the climbing hitch. Any thoughts on this. Thanks for any help, I am looking forward to using this piece just looking for the right time and setup. This thread has helped out a lot already.


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## oldirty (May 17, 2009)

simplypete said:


> I'm curious about a few things. I just got a hitchclimber in the mail the other day. I've seen the hitchclimber used with a spliced line and was wondering about using a knot as the termination. I was just thinking that the end knot termination would interfere with the climbing hitch. Any thoughts on this. Thanks for any help, I am looking forward to using this piece just looking for the right time and setup. This thread has helped out a lot already.









oldirty said:


> i clip the bottom biner to my bridge and run the prussic ( martin) off that same biner. then in the second hole i clip the biner that i deadend to. i do not have a spliced climbing line and i find the scaffold/double fisherman knot that i terminate with gets in the way if in the first hole (top hole if looking down at it) when the knot is trying to set it self. so i go with the top hole open.
> stay safe!




just dont leave too long a tail on your termination knot or have too much of a mess or you will be cramped for space in that area. and by mess i mean some people like to finish their knot with all kinds of half hitches that will take up space.


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## Bermie (May 17, 2009)

oldirty said:


> ...i clip the bottom biner to my bridge and run the prussic ( martin) off that same biner. then in the second hole i clip the biner that i deadend to. i do not have a spliced climbing line and i find the scaffold/double fisherman knot that i terminate with gets in the way if in the first hole (top hole if looking down at it) when the knot is trying to set it self. so i go with the top hole open.
> 
> i am thinking that if you run it they same way your spliced eye can go in the top hole no problem.
> 
> have fun with that thing man. stay safe!



Ditto, exactly the same on mine, I have to keep a little closer eye on the setup because from time to time the knot on the end of my line can interfere with the VT, even in the second hole...

As for the hand over hand above the VT, sure it works for me for a shortish ascent, I'm light enough and not going up for a long distance...I'll admit it's not ideal, but we all make compromises. I certainly would extend it from the bridge if I had a long way up to go. 

As for the distel vs VT, I went from blakes to distel to VT. I have found that the VT/hitchclimber is the easiest setup for a selftending hitch/pulley combination. I found the distel (icetail) would not release enough to allow the rope to slide easily through it pulling with one hand, there was just still too much 'grab'. Moving to the VT, with the icetail it releases sufficiently for everything to slide nicely, even without a friction saver up at the TIP. The hitchclimber setup stays 'up' where I found with the single pulley it would 'drop' between pulls, and at that time the blakes or distel as I already said wouldn't release enough to be able to one hand it to my satisfaction.

I still have a distel/single pulley on my lanyards, the sideways pull works just fine and I want the little extra grab for the short distances it is adjusted.

The caution point is with the good release of the VT you have to remain aware of that fact, and get used to having that in the back of your mind when sitting back on it, especially if your rope is not spliced!

WHew....


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## Adkpk (May 17, 2009)

Get those eyes spliced "hitch climbers", it's the cat's meow.


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## Bermie (May 17, 2009)

At least the eyes on my hitch cord are spliced...

I was considering stitching an eye into my climbing line, I have a load of waxed sailmakers twine, stitch about 3" and then whip it all tight and put a clear shrink wrap over it. ???


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## tree md (May 17, 2009)

Bermie said:


> At least the eyes on my hitch cord are spliced...
> 
> I was considering stitching an eye into my climbing line, I have a load of waxed sailmakers twine, stitch about 3" and then whip it all tight and put a clear shrink wrap over it. ???



Ghillie is the man when it comes to splicing. Do a search on rainy day splicing (or something like that). I plan to get a splicing kit myself this Summer.


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## D Mc (May 17, 2009)

Bermie, please give this a little more thought. Depending on your thread count and stitching skills you could create a tremendously strong eye or one that would fail at the most inappropriate time. The problem is you won't know which one you have achieved. Grizzly splices are amazingly strong but they have very specific stitch pattern and thread count that has been researched and tested. 

I would not trust a one off hand-stitched eye for life support when there are so many better choices out there. 

Dave


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## pdqdl (May 17, 2009)

tree md said:


> Ghillie is the man when it comes to splicing. Do a search on rainy day splicing (or something like that). I plan to get a splicing kit myself this Summer.



Notwithstanding Ghillies fine looking efforts, he is just a recent newcomer to splicing. Check out Moray's many threads on splicing; he has been testing to destruction many different splices.


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## pdqdl (May 17, 2009)

Bermie said:


> At least the eyes on my hitch cord are spliced...
> 
> I was considering stitching an eye into my climbing line, I have a load of waxed sailmakers twine, stitch about 3" and then whip it all tight and put a clear shrink wrap over it. ???




No, Bermie! Don't do it!

If I understand you correctly, you are talking about a side by side stitching of the end of the rope to the main line to form an eye? 

The only thing holding the load would be "however strong the thread was" holding 1/2 of the load on the eye. Since I know you would not climb on a rope made out of handwoven sailmakers twine, you shouldn't climb on an eye whose main strength is the same material.

A well made splice does not need ANY string to whip it, bind it, or otherwise hold it together under a load. The string is there to keep it from coming apart when it is not in use, bouncing around in the truck. A splice captures the strength of the rope to grip itself into not slipping. You can't get that with any amount of stitching.


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## tree md (May 17, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Notwithstanding Ghillies fine looking efforts, he is just a recent newcomer to splicing. Check out Moray's many threads on splicing; he has been testing to destruction many different splices.



Well that goes to show you what I know about splicing. I thought Ghillies' splices looked good though. I do know that I wouldn't want to climb on anything I spliced unless I did some serious studying on the subject. I buy mine prespliced from Sherrill.


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## pdqdl (May 17, 2009)

Splicing is kind of fun, yet frustrating too. If you got no patience, I wouldn't suggest it. If you like physical challenges, knowing how to do things for yourself, I recommend the splicing kit from Samson.

Warning: it can be addictive.

I agree; Ghillie's splices looked factory-fine!


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## Bermie (May 18, 2009)

Thanks for the concern guys...I only thought about stiching an eye, never got past the thought stage! I WON"T DO IT....'kay?

I used to do all the eye splices on our boat, we had 10 halyards all of 1/2" double braid so I know about splicing, just haven't done it for quite while, I'd need to practice some before I spliced my climbing line! I would still whip the throat of the splice, just something I got used to when sailing, mind you we used to load those halyards and eyes with probably 500lbs or more on the electric winch to keep the luff tight. They'd be up like that for weeks at a time on a passage, and used for years before replacing! A real testament to rope construction and splicing efficiency.

As for stitched eyes, I do have a couple of split tails that are stitched only, but as DMc said they are done to a very specific standard and CE tested and certified...certainly nothing I could emulate!


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## stihlhere (May 19, 2009)

*Bee-line eye&eye*

I currently use a prusik to climb but as my skill level has grown i find this know slows me down, jams alot, also tried a mechanical acender but dont like not being able to release under load. Would like to try the vt, was thinking of 5/16 inch bee-line eye & eye prusik 24inches long. does anyone have an opinion i know custom is probably the way to go but i've never spliced and dont know anyone who can or i would trust.


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## tree md (May 19, 2009)

stihlhere said:


> I currently use a prusik to climb but as my skill level has grown i find this know slows me down, jams alot, also tried a mechanical acender but dont like not being able to release under load. Would like to try the vt, was thinking of 5/16 inch bee-line eye & eye prusik 24inches long. does anyone have an opinion i know custom is probably the way to go but i've never spliced and dont know anyone who can or i would trust.



Ha, The prussic must be a Georgia thing. That's what a lot of the old timers climb on there. That's what I climbed on for years as well. It does have a tendency to jam up when you shock it or lean into it very hard. I just started climbing on the VT and it's a really slick climbing not. Look up the friction hitch thread. Lots of info there. You can order spliced eyes from Sherrill. I tie my own eyes with scaffold/double fisherman's knots. I'm glad I decided to go that route to begin with because the prussic cord I had was way too long. After I figure out what length cord works best for me I might order spliced eye on the next one I buy.


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## stihlhere (May 19, 2009)

*tree md*

thanks i'll do exactly that, when i have a lenght figured out what would be a good choice for a cord, i climb on Sampson true blue but have considered changing to a liter Sampson rope.


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## tree md (May 19, 2009)

stihlhere said:


> thanks i'll do exactly that, when i have a lenght figured out what would be a good choice for a cord, i climb on Sampson true blue but have considered changing to a liter Sampson rope.



That question would probably be best answered by someone with more experience. I just started climbing on a prussic cord and have only used HRC so far. I used to climb on true blue when I first started out. I switched over to safety blue a couple years later then bought a poison ivy rope two or three years ago. I still climb on the safety blue sometimes but mostly use the poison ivy rope. I think I am going to check out the lava rope next.


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## Tree Pig (May 19, 2009)

I have been switching over from blakes and taut to distel set up. While doing so I bought a HRC with barrel knots just to give me the option of playing with the length until I found what I wanted. I am now using Distel with 26" cord (cut to length and retied) worked out real well for me.


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## Ghillie (May 19, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Splicing is kind of fun, yet frustrating too. If you got no patience, I wouldn't suggest it. If you like physical challenges, knowing how to do things for yourself, I recommend the splicing kit from Samson.
> 
> Warning: it can be addictive.
> 
> I agree; Ghillie's splices looked factory-fine!



Thanks guys for the compliments on my splices.

And by no means am I trying to say (or imply) I am an expert.....at anything.

My feeling is that "expert" implies that you are at the pinnacle of your education and I feel I am constantly learning new things everyday. They day I stop searching for more knowledge, will be approximately 3 days before my funeral.

That being said.... Yes it is extremely addictive!!!


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## Ghillie (May 20, 2009)

stihlhere said:


> thanks i'll do exactly that, when i have a lenght figured out what would be a good choice for a cord, i climb on Sampson true blue but have considered changing to a liter Sampson rope.



I am going to try Icetail on Velocity. Both an eye and eye prusik and a tied on prusik. The eye and eye splice on icetail thickens the cord and may not grip on 7/16" but it seems to work well on 1/2".

If you tie your prusik, the cord will be smaller and (hopefully) better performing on the smaller diameter climbing line.

I have not tried BeeLine or HRC though.


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## stihlhere (May 20, 2009)

thanks for the info fellers (get it) as stated earlyer thinking of going to liter rope, that being said any suggestions for on 1/2 inch rope choice for use with vt as i may just buy whole new set up (rope and cord). Also any thoughts on smaller dia rope for use with vt are welcomed as I only have experience with 1/2 inch rope (true blue) and climbed once on black max rope. I know a lot is personal pref. but i dont have a lot of $$$ to throw away playing around with diff set ups so not against copying another more experienced climbers and gladly welcome any advice that comes with it.


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## Ghillie (May 20, 2009)

stihlhere said:


> thanks for the info fellers (get it) as stated earlyer thinking of going to liter rope, that being said any suggestions for on 1/2 inch rope choice for use with vt as i may just buy whole new set up (rope and cord). Also any thoughts on smaller dia rope for use with vt are welcomed as I only have experience with 1/2 inch rope (true blue) and climbed once on black max rope. I know a lot is personal pref. but i dont have a lot of $$$ to throw away playing around with diff set ups so not against copying another more experienced climbers and gladly welcome any advice that comes with it.



Stihlhere, just to clarify my earlier post:



Ghillie said:


> I am going to try Icetail on Velocity. Both an eye and eye prusik and a tied on prusik. The eye and eye splice on icetail thickens the cord and may not grip on 7/16" but it seems to work well on 1/2".
> 
> If you tie your prusik, the cord will be smaller and (hopefully) better performing on the smaller diameter climbing line.
> 
> I have not tried BeeLine or HRC though.



I was using the term "prusik" as a generic term for climbing hitch (wether vt, distel or one of the many other choices). After re-reading some of this thread this morning, I realized it may cause some confusion because it appears you are switching from climbing on the prusik hitch.

Sorry for the confusion, I had just been doing some confined space training yesterday and my mind wasn't completely switched back over to tre climbing.

BTW, as far as 1/2" rope, I have climbed with the distel on Hi-Vee, and XTC, both 16 strand, and am happy with the abrasion resistance and general performance.

I was climbing on true blue for a while with a tautline but haven't compared any of the other climbing hitches on true blue.


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## Adkpk (May 20, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> Sorry for the confusion, I had just been doing some confined space training yesterday



"Confined space training", moving to NYC?:greenchainsaw:


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## stihlhere (May 20, 2009)

*ghillie*

No confusion I call It all prusik cord no matter what the hitch. thanks for the feed back. I just got my bucket truck put back together today (bent rod from rain water down the breather setting in my yard ,really sucked) and now time to put hydraulic pump and motors in skid steer when i finish i will purchase new rope and prusik/vt cord and post results may be a little while. again i'm pretty new here but have learned more at this site than from the all the guy's in my area including the one who got me started.:greenchainsaw:


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## Bermie (May 21, 2009)

stihlhere said:


> thanks for the info fellers (get it) as stated earlyer thinking of going to liter rope, that being said any suggestions for on 1/2 inch rope choice for use with vt as i may just buy whole new set up (rope and cord). Also any thoughts on smaller dia rope for use with vt are welcomed as I only have experience with 1/2 inch rope (true blue) and climbed once on black max rope. I know a lot is personal pref. but i dont have a lot of $$$ to throw away playing around with diff set ups so not against copying another more experienced climbers and gladly welcome any advice that comes with it.



I climb on XTC-Plus 1/2" 16 strand, and have used a 1/2 split tail blakes, then ice tail in a distel, then the VT and hitchclimber. All the friction hitches work well on XTC, I find as my rope is now more worn and 'fuzzy' the icetail VT releases well on it and doesn't jam like either some 1/2" or bee line.
XTC is not too expensive either!


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## TreeClimber57 (May 21, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> My feeling is that "expert" implies that you are at the pinnacle of your education and I feel I am constantly learning new things everyday. They day I stop searching for more knowledge, will be approximately 3 days before my funeral.
> 
> That being said.... Yes it is extremely addictive!!!



Well said Ghillie. I agree, you have to try and learn at least one thing each day, makes life interesting and well worth looking forward to next day. Things change so much, techniques, tools, etc.. that it is not hard to find something new.. and this is one of the best places I have found to pick up new ideas. 

Big thanks to all for that!!


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## TreeClimber57 (May 21, 2009)

stihlhere said:


> thanks for the info fellers (get it) as stated earlyer thinking of going to liter rope, that being said any suggestions for on 1/2 inch rope choice for use with vt as i may just buy whole new set up (rope and cord). Also any thoughts on smaller dia rope for use with vt are welcomed as I only have experience with 1/2 inch rope (true blue) and climbed once on black max rope. I know a lot is personal pref. but i dont have a lot of $$$ to throw away playing around with diff set ups so not against copying another more experienced climbers and gladly welcome any advice that comes with it.



Well rope can be kind of personal. But I use Yale XTC Plus 1/2" for most of the climbing. Always found to be good dollar value. (BTW I use primarily XTC 5/8" and 3/4" Bull rope - which is good value as well I think)


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## Ghillie (May 21, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> "Confined space training", moving to NYC?:greenchainsaw:



LOL... Nope, just doing some rescue training.


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## Ghillie (May 21, 2009)

stihlhere said:


> No confusion I call It all prusik cord no matter what the hitch. thanks for the feed back. I just got my bucket truck put back together today (bent rod from rain water down the breather setting in my yard ,really sucked) and now time to put hydraulic pump and motors in skid steer when i finish i will purchase new rope and prusik/vt cord and post results may be a little while. again i'm pretty new here but have learned more at this site than from the all the guy's in my area including the one who got me started.:greenchainsaw:



Same here! Ain't it great!


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## stihlhere (May 21, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> Same here! Ain't it great!



yea best thing since sliced bread, american muscle, chainsaws, woodchippers................


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## tree md (May 24, 2009)

I took 9 or 10" out of my VT, clipped the eye of my climbing line to the same biner, removed the micro pulley and just used the boat swivel snap to tend slack and it worked like a champ! Man, what a super responsive knot! I can't believe the difference in the VT versus my old friction hitch. It's like night and day. I did a small job yesterday and the changes that you guys suggested worked awesome. Thanks for the tips all!


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