# Hurricane Katrina



## Tree Machine (Aug 28, 2005)

Hurricane Katrina tagged southern southern Florida, Friday August 26, moving westward. Today it entered the Gulf of Mexico and this is rather worrisome as the Gulf gets _really_ warm by late August. When it hit land on Friday, it was a category 1. It will strengthen a lot more, without a doubt.

At the moment, Katrina is a dangerous category 3 storm out in the middle of the Gulf. We should keep an eye on her as another landstrike within a few days is inevitable.

I hope Vharrison can offer us some update. He most definitely got slammed as Marathon Key was just to the south of the Eye. Here's a few pics of the storm: (the one you see visible is the last of the 4)


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## Climbing mike (Aug 28, 2005)

category 5 that looks like one nasty storm! I wish i was there


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## Tree Machine (Aug 28, 2005)

Yes, it strengthened overnight. It's now at the top of the strength scale, Category 5.

Man, this storm came out of nowhere. Normally they come rambling over from the west coast of Africa. This baby started east and south of Florida, north of Cuba as a tropical depression, turning quickly into a tropical storm. As it grew to a category 1 hurricane it tagged Florida's southern end. This storm formed and revved up sort of 'under the radar'. There was not a lot of warning and boom, a million people are out of electricity--- and that was as category 1.

It's a different animal right now. They're evacuating the city of New Orleans as we speak. When this hits land, it could be just a devastating storm.


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## Al Smith (Aug 28, 2005)

Tree Machine said:


> Hurricane Katrina tagged southern southern Florida, Friday August 26, moving westward. Today it entered the Gulf of Mexico and this is rather worrisome as the Gulf gets _really_ warm by late August. When it hit land on Friday, it was a category 1. It will strengthen a lot more, without a doubt.
> 
> At the moment, Katrina is a dangerous category 3 storm out in the middle of the Gulf. We should keep an eye on her as another landstrike within a few days is inevitable.
> 
> I hope Vharrison can offer us some update. He most definitely got slammed as Marathon Key was just to the south of the Eye. Here's a few pics of the storm:


Well sir,V is a she,not a he.She did give some up dates,unfortunately however,not on this site as she is no longer here.As I understand it,Marathon got hammered and as of her last report[this morning] the storm has been upgraded to a cat 5.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 28, 2005)

V is a _she_? I feel like a dork, having corresponded with this person for over a year. Geez


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## Tree Machine (Aug 28, 2005)

Dan would be.... Danielle ? I'm so confused  Your avatar is a pic of your husband???


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## Tree Machine (Aug 28, 2005)

Look how well-defined Katrina's eye is as those outer bands begin licking Louisiana's Gulf shores.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 28, 2005)

175 mph (291.6 Km/h) Sustained winds. That is the MINIMUM required horsepower to be called a category 5. Gulf waters get no warmer than in late August. Katrina, as she moves across the ever-warmer Gulf waters is being all she can be. I fear this young, vicious storm, as well-formed as it is, and as full powerful, and this being a hot late August time of the year, I'm afraid this sets the stage for a _Perfect Storm_. 

Katrina and the Waves.


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## bushman (Aug 28, 2005)

the storm is looking like camille of 69,one of the only cat5 where the storm surge was 22ft mean tide and 200mph wind .hopefully we won't see that but she's mighty close to the same strength.may god be with these people on the gulf coast.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 28, 2005)

Leave.


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## priest (Aug 28, 2005)

Looks very, very bad. We'll be headed that way if there are any trees left to work on.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 28, 2005)

The sad thing about New Orleans is that it's a city built below sea level. On average, N'awlins sits about 12 feet (3.66 M) below sea level. A series of retaining walls and levees allow it to be a 'dry' city. Once the storm surge comes ashore under this sort of forceful hurricane, you add the depth below sea level to the height of the storm surge, gives you the depth of water in the old city.

Add to that boats and flotsam and the 150-200 mph winds and you could have buildings tumbling, people getting killed, livestock with nowhere to go, fishing boats, shrimpers and trawlers cast ashore or sunk.

Katrina is a meteorological machine and will do terrible damage. We'll just have to sit for another 24-36 hours.


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## TreeJunkie (Aug 28, 2005)

More like a week or two. The mayor of New Orleans was on msnbc this morning and predicted it could be 2-3 weeks before water will be completely clear of the streets there. I'm thinking about going down but not for at least a week. I doubt there would be much point in heading anywhere near where the eye hits people aren't going to give a crap about there trees; they'll be wondering where there house went.......


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## Bermie (Aug 28, 2005)

Climbing mike said:


> category 5 that looks like one nasty storm! I wish i was there



No you don't!!!
I was in a cat 3/4 two years ago, bloody hell, I'd LEAVE, BIN GONE, if a cat 5 was coming! That place is going to get toasted, roasted, blasted and smashed.
Pray for them, seriously.


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## sharpstikman (Aug 28, 2005)

my prayers go out to all in the path of this store beforeand after amen


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## Tree Machine (Aug 29, 2005)

It is Sunday night. This is what Katrina looks like around Midnight Louisiana time. Tomorrow morning she will be ashore. This is so very bad. Prayers are in order. People can leave, but as for the rest of god's creatures, and the trees, there is nowhere to hide


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## Ross Turner (Aug 29, 2005)

I see its been down graded to a cat 4,Watching it on CNN(how sad,lol).
Hope there isn`t any loss of life.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 29, 2005)

Cat 4, downgrade

Thank goodness. ANY amount of help is help.

Here she is, Monday morning. The eye is right on the shoreline. As I'm having my morning coffee, eastern Louisiana and western Missippii are getting beaten up by a ruthless storm.


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## Chris J. (Aug 29, 2005)

Prayers and positive thoughts for our neighbors to the east; I sincerely hope that the doomsday predictions are way overexaggerated.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 29, 2005)

Well, doomsday or not, certain areas are more susceptible to flood damage, meaning low-lying areas. Here is a map of where the eye has come ashore. Not only is the city of New Orleans below sea level, but the entire region is very low-lying. There are lots of people and towns where people live along the ocean, along Lake Pontchartrain and along the mighty Mississippi. EVERYTHING flows into the Mississippi, and since we can expect all drainages to flood, so will the mighty river, over it's banks and flooding everything along those banks.

But wait, there's more. As the Storm moves northward, it will likely follow the northward direction of the river, flooding any river valleys and watersheds, all these catch basins once again, flowing into the Mississippi River. Once the storm has passed over Lousiana/Mississippi, it will _still_ send it's flood waters south back down to New Orleans and bayou / delta country. The amount of pollution that will be carried out into the Gulf of Mexico is in and of itself a tragedy.

For any treeguy going for disaster relief efforts, they need you. It will be a major challenge.


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## Yellowdog (Aug 29, 2005)

If I knew where to begin I would considering going to help with the clean up . I have a place to stay on the n. side of ponchartrain but we still don't know if my friend's neighborhood is there or not! What a mess.. I really feel bad for the folks in MS. Looks like it was the hardest hit..


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## Tree Machine (Aug 29, 2005)

Oh my goodness. A hundred miles inland and the eye is still well-formed. The eye will decay, though, within hours. Storm is really moving _fast_.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 29, 2005)

There she's breaking up. I'm noting a slight shift to the east, but it's a torrential rainmaker and tornado spawner on a due track north. It's Monday afternoon. I am 200 km north of the top of this map, and we are feeling the breezes from the outer bands. It's refreshing on this hot Summer afternoon. I almost feel guilty admitting that.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 29, 2005)

More interesting pics. Red lines are areas of strong, straight line winds, meteorological effects some thousand kilometers Southeast, to Cuba. It's like a backsiide, 'vacuum effect' from the storm. The air is _really_ moving in the tropics today.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 29, 2005)

Monday Evening. The skies over New Orleans and Mobile Alabama will clear by tomorrow morning. It will be a bright, hot day tomorrow in the South.

Tomorrow we assess the wreckage. Isn't this hurricane only 4 or 5 days old? Katrina, you're a _baad _ girl. Tomorrow's helicopter footage shoud be unreal. It's still going to be a rough night, they aren't out of the woods yet.

No sunny skies tomorrow for Tennessee.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 29, 2005)

There's some nasty stuff brewin off the coast of Africa. We'll be watching that. The waters out there are at their warmest right now and will start cooling off next month. Hurricanes are Mother Nature's way of redistributing energy.

The red dot is where I live.


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## Bermie (Aug 29, 2005)

[QUOTE The red dot is where I live


> Hey, the teeny white dot way to the SE of Cape Hatteras is where I live!
> Watching that mess of cloud to our SE, tropical depression 13.


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## Koa Man (Aug 30, 2005)

During Hurricane Iniki in 1992 on Kauai, the catagory of that storm is listed as unknown because the Weather Service wind meter got broken with the needle stuck at over 200mph. The winds was so strong that it pulled some patches of tall grass out of the ground.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 30, 2005)

*The coast is clear*

Hey Bermie, wasn't Katrina born right over near where you live? You weren't in a bad mood that day, were you? Did you whip up some weird, Bermudan meteorological mojo? Or did you heave this hurricane at Master Blaster as a joke? Well, it's not funny.  

Heh heh.

Koa, I've been to Kauai and we would hike to a waterfall deep in the jungle and we'd get there and there would be _chickens_. Pull off on a scenic overlook, _chickens_. Beaches _chickens_. We were informed that hurricane Iniki spread livestock all over, including chickens. On Kauai there are no natural predators to the mighty chicken, so they took up home wherever they were, and tried to scratch out a living. (I am so funny tonight). They do well wherever tourists go because we'll toss em some bread. I got a rise out of my wife when I threw bread pieces at her feet and it would seem (to her) like groups of chickens were attacking her toes. She didn't find it all that amusing. Practical jokes in the wake of Iniki.

OK, here's Katrina, *Midnight*. It appears the skies over New Orleans, Louisiana are clear, but Chattanooga, Tennessee is getting some 'right uppercut' winds, rough night for you guys. 

We'll keep an eye on Bermie's tropical depression 13.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 30, 2005)

Tuesday morning. Katrina is still moving fast. This lessens the potential for flooding; another plus for those in her path.

It's raining here in Indianapolis, sprinkling really, and no winds to speak of. Katrina has been downgraded to a low pressure system. New York and Washington DC, it's gonna be moist today.

Out east, in the Pacific ocean where the red dot is, that's Bermuda, where Bermie lives. There's some huge cloudwork to her southeast, but nothing that seems like it's rotating counterclockwise.

I will post one more time around noon today, and that's it for this storm. Thank you all for letting me bring that to you.


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## priest (Aug 30, 2005)

It looks like the flooding was devastating in many places. 

It's difficult to tell from watching the coverage if there was serious tree damage, and where. We're planning on heading down there. I don't know where to begin or how much equipment/manpower we'll need at this point.


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## Psychodoe (Aug 30, 2005)

Im in Navarre FL we got hit by Ivan and Dennis. We started getting strong winds at 12:00 am Monday from Katrina. The reports coming from the area are not good. Flood waters even here have not gone down yet. The tree damage is very serious. Local news is reporting large trees down from Gulf Shores To New Orleans.


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## Jumper (Aug 30, 2005)

She is supposed to arrive here on the north shore of Lake Ontario this evening....up to four inches of rain and wind gusts of 50 mph. Hopefully Toronto doesn't flood again this time as we finally got the basement dried out and all the trash taken to the dump. What a sh*tty job (literally)


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## Bermie (Aug 30, 2005)

Tree Machine said:


> Out east, in the Pacific ocean where the red dot is, that's Bermuda, where Bermie lives. There's some huge cloudwork to her southeast, but nothing that seems like it's rotating counterclockwise.
> 
> IQUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Darin (Aug 30, 2005)

If anyone is interested. I am heading down in less than a month after the dust clears a little. I am in big with insurance carriers and will get direct leads. We could help each other greatly by working together. I will sell the roofing, siding and gutters and you all sell the tree and stump removal. I will have offices in Mobile, Biloxi, and New Orleans. We can share leads and possibly office space/warehouse space if there is any left. I have to finish up the storm I am working in North Dakota first. Let me know if anyone is interested. No druggies or poor business ethics need apply. I will check you out before I give you leads as I will not screw my deal up with the insurance companies. At any rate, right now we should just pray everyone is in good shape. It is a extremely sad situation. So yes we will profit from it but also feel good by helping them out when they need it most.


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## Darin (Aug 30, 2005)

I searched all users that were in Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi. I wondered how you were doing. Good you are ok.


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## fordsrbetter (Aug 30, 2005)

hey guys been stopping in for about a year just reading and learning
darin i would be very interested, been considering going down for other hurricanes, just didnt know how to approach this are there any special permits required? i called down there and nobody knew if they could issue temp state licenses. would i benefit driving the bucket truck down there? my thinking is the ground is so saturated that climbing is the best for this. what about the chipper? sorry for rambling 

D.J. Walsh 
Precision Tree Choppers
319-795-1452 cell


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## Elmore (Aug 30, 2005)

Darin said:


> I searched all users that were in Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi. I wondered how you were doing. Good you are ok.


Okay up here in North/Central Alabama. Just one pine down and a whole lot of leaf and twig litter. Lord have mercy on those along the coast.


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## TreeJunkie (Aug 31, 2005)

chipper won't be worth much down there. Everything goes to the curb.

Take buckets and log loaders for major contract work


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## fordsrbetter (Aug 31, 2005)

so material handler and bucket trucks would be the best bet, so everything gets left on the side of the road? no hauling ok thanks very much


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## fordsrbetter (Aug 31, 2005)

another question for guys who have done this before. how long where you down there? planning on bringing the camper and lots of food fuel but need an idea of how long i should be planning for, ive got one crew going to stay up here and finish all the work thats been promised but they might be able to come down a couple weeks after we get there. also if debri is left at the curb the material handler might be over kill just to move wood around. thanks for helping me out here D.J. Walsh


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## TreeJunkie (Aug 31, 2005)

bring the log loaders for hauling debris once the contract is signed u should be able to get on as a sub. There's a good bit of money in it, just hard on the equip running it 12 hrs a day..

Find the right area you'll be there 1-2 months


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## Tree Machine (Aug 31, 2005)

Keep it coming, guys. Manpower and machinery will be in short supply for months.

Don't stick it to the customers. This is a really hard time. Treat people fairly and represent our industry well. You will have much success. Most of all, BE SAFE. It's still very hot down there, and as you can imagine, very humid.

Darin, thanks for opening up to acting as a referral service. I see this being a central clearing house for tree guys and tree guy needers. You will keep us regularly updated?


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## Chris J. (Aug 31, 2005)

Tree Machine said:


> Don't stick it to the customers. This is a really hard time. Treat people fairly and represent our industry well.



A lot of devastation, and a lot of traumatized folks.


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## Tree Machine (Aug 31, 2005)

*All calm, just 24 hours later*

Just one day later. No meteorological evidence that anything even happened. The people in Katrina's path are still shaking their heads; _"What the heck happened???_ while trying to put their lives back together.

Hey, welcome to the site, fordsrbetter.


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## Nickrosis (Aug 31, 2005)

Carl (lumberjack) is alive and well.

I text messaged him asking how he fared and he wrote back (immediately of course):

"I was thinking about you today.. We lost three trees and some shingles and have more work to do than we can get done. I just had my first meal today, wendys."

"We might get power tomorrow hopefully"

Matt and I - we're looking out for the the AS kids here.


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## fordsrbetter (Aug 31, 2005)

hello everyone, has anyone ever worked for any of the electric companys as a sub. ive heard they pay decent. also too the guys that are going down, when do you plan on leaving? i am planning on working for profits for a while then donatating a few days of cleanup once i get some of the costs payed back. i am more worried of driving all the equipment down and not having all my ducks in a row, then costing more than i make while working me, the crew, and all the equipment to death. 

thanks to all with the wisdom and experiance about this
D.J. Walsh
Precision Tree Chopper


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## Tree Machine (Aug 31, 2005)

We really do need to organize. I would suggest aligning with Darin. You will have direction and support. That's the big thing I see as your worry.

We should all be working together to help each other, thereby better helping the storm victims

This is a time we can come together. Guys, this is a multi-month task, we are at the very, very beginning. If you're watching on the television, you can see how _really bad_ it really is. We have a long haul in front of us.

If there's some way I can personally help, I'm open for suggestions.


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## murphy4trees (Sep 1, 2005)

OK,
I did hugo, Isabel and 3 of the 4 last year in fla.

There are a lot of epenses in operating on the road and you have to consider the opportunity cost... what you're not making at home cause you're on the storm... And then all the potential good customers you might lose while away and their FUTURE business too.... That gets plenty expensive...

In order to recoup those costs and make a profit that makes not sleeping in your bed etc... worth it you have to get paid well for the work... That means finding the right area.... they have to have the cash.... 

IE... we spent the fist 2 weeks on Isabel in Richmond.... did more driving around than anything else... The people were tight and the competition was cheap.... then decided to try Williamsburg.... Did 10 jobs on the same treet in the first two days.... didn't leave the block and the referals just kept coming.... REALLY nice people to work for... Worked Williamsburg for the next 7 weeks straight with no thought of returning to Richmond... PS thansk treeslayer for hooking us up in Williamsburg...

Another example..... about 2 months after Charlie hit last year we finally made it to Fla with the stump grinder.... Had one add in Port Charolettte papers for Charlie and one in the Pensecola papers for Ivan... I was wondering why I wasn't getting ANY calls from pennsicola, til another contractor told me there were 90 classified ads for stuming in that paper, while there were only 5 ads in the port charolette papers...

I'd consider going again, but our home dollars are way up this year and the only guy I trust to take of business and the $$ has been out of work with a nasty case of depression all summer... I did just look at a 24' RV yeaterday... Might be able to split the cost with a couple of other interested parties and get into it for $4-5,000...

IU like the adventire of storm chasing and getting to "know" the country a bit better and the kind of focus that storm chasing requires.... ANd I also like to sleep in my own bed and shop instores I know how to get to etc...


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## Tree Machine (Sep 1, 2005)

The wisdom of experience speaks.


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## KentuckySawyer (Sep 1, 2005)

I've got a friend who is talking to a FEMA contractor in South Carolina, and I'm considering signing on as a sub for a month or two. He is planning on being down there for a year. All the equipment I have is a chip truck and 12" chipper, but I'm hoping this will be a good reason for me to invest in a crane. I've just heard about this today, so I don't have any specifics. I'll let cha know.


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## pantheraba (Sep 1, 2005)

I worked Hurricane Andrew in 1992. Our church formed a Disaster Relief Team...we spent several days amassing supplies before we left. We spent a week on site working in the Miami/Homestead area.

It is important to not become part of the problem. Many folks show up too early in a relief effort and are not prepared to take care of themselves. You must have your own food, water, shelter, first aid supplies, be prepared to handle your own evac/casualty packaging if someone is injured.

Determine where medical, law enforcement, supply centers are before you go or as soon as you arrive. We were transported to a military/supply center shortly after arriving to receive shots…it’s better to get them before you go.

A good GPS and good maps are important...we found that street signs were all gone…that makes navigating real interesting when the buildings, landmarks and street signs are missing.

We mainly did cleanup/recovery/supply delivery to remote sites…I only used my tree gear to set a power line on a pole so that our generator could supply the house we were in.

Linking up with or being a part of an officially approved group will take care of a lot of logistical problems.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 2, 2005)

pantheraba said:


> It is important to not become part of the problem. Many folks show up too early in a relief effort and are not prepared to take care of themselves. You must have your own food, water, shelter, first aid supplies, be prepared to handle your own evac/casualty packaging if someone is injured.


 The damage is so extensive officials are still not able to fully assess the damage. Tree damage is difficult to asses when they are blown over and still underwater. Trees still block thousands of roads, hampering efforts to get aid into the hard hit areas. The people in the Zone are furious that they're not getting aid, but there are a lot of roads still underwater or blocked by fallen trees. 

For the better part of this week, helicopters were the primary route to getting aid in and people rescued. As the flood waters recede, the death toll rises. I have hard on the news the estimate of 'thousands' dead. I do not know how true that might be, but at this time, neither does anyone else.

Tens of thousands of homes were destroyed, and those people left homeless. _Tens of thousands._. Would it be unreasonable to think that millions of trees are down? I don't think that would be a lofty estimate. Our help is unquestionably needed.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 2, 2005)

*Our time to step up will soon come*

I'm thinking that a good way to help the effort would be to help the treeguys who are helping the effort.

Our treeguy buddies will need support once they dig in. 12 hour days, day after day, they need help and support. For every one of us going down to the storm region, there might be a hundred of us who are not. If that hundred could support the one, what a difference that could make.


I've been digging hard to come up with _something_. The idea I'm going to propose came from _Outside Magazine_, something I read a few years ago. The story was about people who did cross-country bike tours. They would establish responsible, dedicated allies (friends) back at home. When the long-distance bikers knew they would be in a town for a few days, they would have an ally send a pre-prepared 'care package'. With just a few good people backing them, their 'expedition' was supported. Packages were sent to the person's name, c/o local post office mail desk. The recipients pick up their box at the local P.O. and would have fresh stuff to continue their efforts, morale boosted knowing that people back 'home' are supporting them.

We can uniquely do this. Nobody's really gone down yet, so the time to talk about this is NOW.
Cell phones and internet help our cause.

I will personally spearhead an effort such as this. I need cooperation, and I will dedicate my own websit, treeguy.info to making this happen (or we can do it right here by starting a relief effort thread). There we can list cell phone numbers freely of companies working the devastation, and 'personal sponsors' back home, e-mails, addresses and zips of all post offices in the swath of the storm and keep abreast on the areas that need help the most. We can offer logistic support, like how Murphy4Trees got a good tip from Treeslayer as to where to go .... stuff like that.

The treework, gentlemen, is limitless. Absolutely endless. We need to organize, if not for the sake of the storm victims then for ourselves. We can make our brothers stronger. Our efforts have not yet begun but if we have a central site from which to do it, all we need to do is set our collective intent.


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## Dan F (Sep 2, 2005)

TM and all-

Have you noticed that it seems like there are an unbelievable amount of trees still standing based on the aerial footage on the news? Seems like even amidst the rubble of houses, there are still an awful lot of trees still standing.... It could be that the little bit of coverage I've seen (haven't had time to watch much, and all I have is network TV) isn't a good representation though....

Someone had said that the street signs are gone. Kinda ironic that it should be mentioned here, then I heard the same report on the radio this morning. Indiana sent Task Force 1 (USAR team, probably one of the best in the country) down to aid. One of the stations in Indy (TM- WIBC) was talking to the commander of TF1 this morning, and he said the same thing. They are using GPS and a lot of maps to find their way around.

Good luck to anyone heading that way. I wish I could go, but have too many commitments here.


Dan


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## treeseer (Sep 3, 2005)

Dan F said:


> Have you noticed that it seems like there are an unbelievable amount of trees still standing based on the aerial footage on the news? Seems like even amidst the rubble of houses, there are still an awful lot of trees still standing....


Live oaks are amazingly resilient. After heading cuts reduce the damaged branch only back to the first good node, they can regrow their crowns. If FEMA or anyone specifies that live oaks with light to moderate crown loss get cut down, they are going to have a revolt on their hands.

People down there prize their live oaks, and will not want their babies to go down with the bathwater.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 3, 2005)

Very true. Live oaks, on top of being just really strong trees are really good compartmentalizers and can come back remarkably well. Unless the trunk has a major defect, or some terminal condition, leave the trees standing. Knocking down salvagable trees is a waste of time. There is so much more other work to do and there's the fact that a total takedown can come anytime in the future.

As far as the aerial footage of trees, downed crowns, from the air look like intact crowns as you look out across the sea of trees. Until the leaves turn brown in a couple weeks, it will be difficult to assess more fully from the air. Helicopters won't point out tree damage unless the footage is dramatic, like a tree on a house, tree across road, tree on car. What they're not showing is damaged trees down in people's yards inland. Most all of the footage has been New Orleans and the beaches. It is bad, but Gentlemen, they're not showing the band of damage from the beach all the way up to Pennsylvania, a swath hundreds of kilometers wide and at least a thousand K in length. That is an absolutely HUGE area. Many of those places still have their roads blocked as of today, one week past the strike of the disaster. Have you heard the damage estimates? Over one hundred _billion_. The dead that have not been reached yet are in a state of advanced decomposition. A lot of people still not accounted for.

Treeguys going down to the disaster zone, you may see some things that are not pretty (besides enless litter, debris and pollution). You will experience desperation. You will experience a lot of things.


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## treeseer (Sep 3, 2005)

Don't go unless you are entirely self-contained. This is a note from a guy who runs--ran--a tree sevice in New Orleans. I'd written him before the storm, offering help:

We'll talk....right now, I'm ensconced in Baton Rouge with my in-laws. All we have is a little money a couple of changes of clothes and our kids. F the rest. I leave behind a nice home, business and don't really give a s right now. Want to move on. I hear there is total devastation at my place. All the big trees in front are windthrown. No flooding. Maybe somebody is looking after the house and all the tree stuff - I don't know. Police shot 5 looters in my area last night and left their bodies to rot in the street. With night vision goggles, it's open season on looters at night. Power will be out for 2 months or more . No point in going home. I predicted this mess, and now predict the death of 150,000 large trees from slatwater damage. Who's going to pay the bill?"

Anyone know how to flush/buffer/treat this kind of salt damage?


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## Tree Machine (Sep 3, 2005)

Oh.....my......goodness. Remember back a few pages back when the eye was passing over New Orleans and we were discussing how bad it could be? It's that bad, worse, and a whole lot more. They really need us in there.


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## treeseer (Sep 3, 2005)

Tree Machine said:


> the eye was passing over New Orleans It's that bad, worse, and a whole lot more. They really need us in there.


TM I think they really need us OUT of New Orleans, for at least a month. How many insurance companies will be in business after this? Which insurance company is going to write a policy on a house that is below sea level?


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## stehansen (Sep 3, 2005)

Anyone know how to flush/buffer/treat this kind of salt damage?[/QUOTE]

Gypsum or any kind of sulphuric acid to lower the PH will help. If the PH is high the salt is not very mobil, if you lower the PH you will release the salt and can flush the area with fresh water to push the salt down past the root zone. Rather difficult with already waterlogged soil. I'm assuming that most of the trees in the flooded area of New Orleans will be dead by the time the water is pumped out. I used to farm next to the San Joaquin river and once in the 1980's it flooded and the water didn't receed until July and it killed about half of the Valley Oak trees there. As long as the trees were flooded in the winter time they could tolerate a long time under water, but when the water stayed until hot weather arrived, many trees were lost. That was flooded with fresh water, not near as bad as salty polluted water like they have in New Orleans.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 4, 2005)

*agreed, not in New Orleans*



treeseer said:


> TM I think they really need us OUT of New Orleans, for at least a month.


I should have been more specific. New Orleans is not even a possibility, plus there are volunteers and chainsaws in the (saltwater) heart of it all. What I meant by 'in there' is in the zone of destruction, an area about the size of Great Britain. It benefits 'expedition tree care' operations (and their tools) to keep themselves dry and in good health.

Many of us have never faced destruction of this magnitude. I know to a lot of guys it seems like we're going in blindly, but the advice offered by veteran storm chasers is like gold right now, so feed us more of that. Feedback coming from within the zone will happen in the days and weeks to come.

Also, there are a good number of us who live in the storm's path who've just not been able to reach us out here because they don't have power.

Even if you're not leaving right away, continue preparation. Our work will be needed all Fall and all Winter. We'll keep the logistical support coming from this end. That's a promise.


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## redemption (Sep 4, 2005)

I am considering headding that way with a full crew, I did some storm work in Pensacola "tree work residential" Lot's people think we are bad, crap local tree companies where 10 times worst. First day we arrived a local guy was bidding 3k for a 1k removal, it was unreal. 

Anyway's rambling on, this time arround I want to do some contracting work. My budddy just purchased a Truck with a 100 yard trailer. We have 4 40 yard dumps, two bobcats. I am triying to find out what they will be paying for hawling before we commit to go there. Anyone has an idea what fema is paying, are there grants to help get there?


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## Tree Machine (Sep 4, 2005)

*Let's get focussed*

Thank you, redemption, and welcometo the site.

Gentlemen, the ones of you who are considering, or dedicated to going, are you talking good and long with your families?

For you to do your very best, you need people behind you. You have a vision to do storm assistance and earn a good living risking your lives and putting yourselves out there. You are leaving your homes and families to go out and be heroes. You're not going there to do tree work, you're going there to help people.

Enroll your family and friends. If you're leaving, the people back at home are thinking of you every minute. They want to help. Let them. If people you know are going to give to the cause, they can assist the cause DIRECTLY by assisting YOU. 

Helping you gear-up:

In the long-term view, what is most important is that nobody gets hurt. Personal protective gear is essential! If people want to buy you something, make sure you have good hearing protection for all your team members. Chaps are a good idea, helmet system/face screen and plenty of safety glasses. UGLI Gloves by the dozen. What else? Respiration, man. Who KNOWS what you might be breathin besides sawdust and exhaust. Something beyond just those particle paper masks.

Have your friends buy you that sort of stuff. Right now you're trying to shore up all your money for the trip out there and what all expenses. I can not overstate the importance of safety gear. How bout two-way radio? If someone wants to donate to the cause, have them contribute a couple motorola radios. LED flashlights and batteries. Headlamps, plenty of batteries. This is safety and logistics, the stuff you put in place, the stage you set, to ensure your success. 

From the pure standpoint of being a treeguy and truly understanding the environment you create while working, I think one of the most important, super-critical pieces of safety gear will be Ear-Protective AM/FM muffs, nickle-metal hydride batteries and a charger. Alkaline batteries for spare and backup. Having these will keep your hearing protected and the radio will keep you updated at all hours as to what is going on around you. You will need to know what is happening in the region, you will need the news. A simple set of Peltor Worktunes and you are <i>there.</i>

WE WILL GET YOU DIALLED-IN. Continue your preparations. We are pulling together maps.


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## redemption (Sep 4, 2005)

Thanks for the warm welcome and the great tips!


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## boo (Sep 4, 2005)

Hey Tree Folk,

I've been reading here for a while ....I figure now is a good time to post.... that damage is wide spread. Take supplies if you go.
We left Milton,Fl.(Hurricane Dennis) where the winds were getting strong and the waters were starting to flood that day headed west, the bridges along I-10 and hwy 90 were out, we had to go around to the northeast of it.The National Guard fell in behind us as we cut the path through, several times we had to stop and clear the road for travel, they cheered us on, along with the locals trying to get back in.
I just came from down there, seems the local police don't quite have their ducks straight. We also got booted from the hotel room the day after when power was restored so that Progressive Auto Insurance could have a room, also a ROOFING co.....seems it would be kinda hard to put a roof on a house when trees are through the middle of it..I'd guess the price of the room went up...anyway ...no phones work local cell phones are out too ...I had one of the very few that could get a call once in a while being from out of state.
The local radio stations were telling people not to trust out of state services.
I spent most of my time there reporting gas leaks to the fire dept. and telling the local people who were trapped in their neighborhoods to send for FEMA sites for ice,water,etc., as I was giving my own supplies to a more desperate people. Seems none of those people really knew what to do.
I have alot of footage on video and alot of still shots ....maybe i'll find a faster way to post em.
I'm home to see the wife and kid for a few days and gather supplies then I'm heading back. I was motivated by the amount of work and money there... after I got there and seen..... I felt ashamed of myself for even thinking about making any money.
Even if the local police and radio bash us, and hotels kick us out for the higher rent, Those people need our help they just don't know it yet.
Be prepared and safe folks.
God Bless


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## boo (Sep 5, 2005)

stopped in Ocean Springs and Hattiesburg


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## Tree Machine (Sep 5, 2005)

Please Boo, tell us more about what it's like inside the zone.....


And just for everyone's reference, we've got another hurricane brewing in the Atlantic. I don't know the name of this storm as i just picked up on it earlier today and began watching it. Tonight it gained a well-defined eye. No threat any time soon as it's indicated no real direction yet.


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## boo (Sep 5, 2005)

I'm not real big on posting ,but maybe I'll be of some help....they have lockdown at 8:00 noone can be out ...too many break ins I guess.
I've seen people fighting at the gas pumps for $3.00 of gas, only 2 or 3 stations in Hattiesburg that has any gas. Hopefully the local police come up with another plan that seperates us from the theives.....it kinda hurt my heart the way they treated us. Don't count on getting supplies,water,ice or food after work ..take them with you.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 5, 2005)

Boo, that's valuable logistical advice. Thank you.

Here is a first map. I laid out a fat streak about where the eye travelled. Know that the hardest hit zones are to the east of the fat line.

I've light-lined in the outer destruction zones. These are by no means where the damage starts and stops, they're just rough dimensions to isolate the worst of the worst. The damage goes further up than when the arrow stops, that's just where the winds got below 100 KM/h.

I've circled Boo's Hattisburg. As you can see, the eye rolled right over that town.


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## Xtra (Sep 5, 2005)

For hi-res photos of the area & neighborhoods go to:
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/s2495.htm


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 5, 2005)

The most money will be in hauling. loader trucks and big dumps that can be run in three shifts.

In my past work I've seen guys with loader trucks get sub contracts to just sit by debris piles and load other trucks. Most operations pay out by CUFT of the truck whne dumping. 

Tubs and hamermills run day and night....


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## Tree Machine (Sep 6, 2005)

FABULOUS LINK Xtra. This is an extremely valuable link, over 350 high res aerial images taken specifically to help assist in damage assessment. I will study these images in the morning to assist in piecing together our damage zones.

In the meantime, the tropical disturbance I brought you 24 hours ago looks to be a hurricane at this point that's more or less hanging out in one spot. To the south and west of it there's a major buildup that went from nothing to quite large in only 8 hours. We'll continue our watch.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 6, 2005)

*Hurricane season is far from over*

I'm not trying to derail the Katrina thread, but there's some really wild stuff happening out in the Atlantic.

The hurricane on the right is decaying, which is good news. The storm in the middle has doubled in size in 12 hours and is lapping at the south side of Bermuda. And what the heck is going on off the Atlantic coast of Florida? That's a lot of energy on the move right now over warm waters. 

It's only 8 days since Katrina made landfall and we're into the hottest part of Summer. The waters are at their warmest. The atmosphere is active.

While we get tree guys and rescue personnel into the bayous and river valleys and remote areas throughout the three state region, we have another storm forming that's about to eat Bermuda.

I'm putting in a personal message (pm) to Bermie....... Bermie....you out there? What's going on to your south? What are they saying? Bermie.....click, click, Bermie are you there??? BERMIE!!!!!


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## Bermie (Sep 6, 2005)

Hi Hi, I'm here! :alien: 
Just got back on the Island this afternoon, got in the door an hour ago, been in NY City for a field hockey tournament all weekend.
TS Nate is due to pay us a visit early Friday morning, so far just 50-60 knots, a strong breeze for us, but with all the warm water we've got to keep an eye on it! I hope I can get out on Thursday, due to fly out to the UK on the evening flight, going to miss it all, that new 250 will have to wait again!
One thing about us out here, we are VERY used to hurricanes, our architecture and building style has developed over the years with severe weather as part of the design factors. All of our houses are built of stone or concrete block, even Fabian (cat 3) only wrecked a few houses, more roof damage than major structural stuff (with a few exceptions of course) Fabian was the FIRST time in our history (500 years) that anyone was killed as a direct result of a hurricane, four people drowned when their cars got washed off the causeway, they left it too late to get across, very sad, Sept 2 was the 2 year anniversary memorial. 
We just hope Nate stays a TS or at worst a cat1.
Thanks for your concerns, nice to know you care!
Cheers


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## Tree Machine (Sep 6, 2005)

Thanks for piping in, Bermie. My big concern is that the goliath will sit on you and not move for a few days. I hope I'm wrong.

Glad to hear your voice, Girl. Do you mind me nagging you for an update between now (Tuesday) and Thursday of this week. We'll know in the next 24 hours if you're getting consumed by something that grows by the hour.

After the sun goes down there's a chance that it might peter out. If it strengthens overnight, and then cooks in the sun again tomorrow, by this time tomorrow Nate will give us a better clue of what his intent is with you.

Thank you for staying in touch, Bermie. We could enjoy hearing how your tournament went in New York. Are you an elite athlete, or a SuperCoach?


Bermie said:


> Thanks for your concerns, nice to know you care!
> Cheers


We adore you.


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## Bermie (Sep 6, 2005)

No prob, I'll update you in the morning.
GO AWAY NATE!!!
Hockey later, 
Good Night.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 6, 2005)

Bermie said:


> I'll update you in the morning.


We will look forward to that. Thank you for bringing us into your world.

Here's what your world looks like to all the rest of us: 9:00 pm New Orleans time.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 7, 2005)

*He's growing*

.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 7, 2005)

*Bermie.......*

Bermie, I have not such good news for you....... The tropical storm is approaching hurricane status, rotation is distinct and the eye is forming. It worries me that a storm that big is so close to you. It has not determined a course yet, but even if the eye stays in on place, the sheer size of the storm could grow over top of you.  I mean, _you're on an island!_ Where do you go to evacuate? We're keeping watch over you Sister Arbo Girl.

Are you gonna do some surfing on the south shores before you hunker down?


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## Tree Machine (Sep 7, 2005)

*The eye forms*

Rutt Row. http://www.goes.noaa.gov/HURRLOOPS/huirloop.html


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## TreeJunkie (Sep 7, 2005)

Way to completely derail this thread-


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## Tree Machine (Sep 7, 2005)

I know, I'm usually the first to comment on a derail. I wouldn't even comment on something so far out in the Atlantic, except it's going to eat an island with one of our friends on it.

A true derail is taking the topic completely off-topic. Since the topic involves hurricanes, is it a total derail to momentarily talk about another hurricane? I suppose it is.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 7, 2005)

OK, back to KATRINA. Here's what I've done with treeguy.info. I'm pitching an 'Adopt an Arborist' program as an experiment, and I've spent most of today <b>sourcing maps</b>, which I have posted at the far bottom of the column. Then I transferrred many of these to the Hurricane Cleanup thread. Go take a look, http://treeguy.info/articlebody.php?section_id=5&article_id=252


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## Bermie (Sep 7, 2005)

*Nate nears BDA*

Latest,
Been packing and getting stuff ready for the blow all day, roof checked shutters shut, generator ready, saws running, plenty of gas! Living on an island as I do, we all have to get boats either pulled up or put on the moorings. Not sure if my flight will get out tomorrow
Good news is that Nate is staying to the south, closest point of approach Thursday about 4pm 80 miles south. Hopefully nothing more than 50-60 knots, we're on the 'good' side of the storm. The emergency measures organization met at 5:00pm and its business as usual tomorrow, everything will be open, however all the cruise ships left today just to be sure.
As for the derail comment, its nice to know people care buddy, especially when you listen to the American news and they make comments like 'the storms are well offshore and pose no threat to anyone' WELL there are just 70,000 PEOPLE out here! So pppphttt!!! We don't have anywhere to evacute to, we deal with it starting at least three days before it gets here.
Good luck with the Katrina relief, stay safe.


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## Bermie (Sep 8, 2005)

Looks like Nate's a fizzle, thank God.
It's finally picked up some momentum and will pass over 100 miles SSE. We're not going to get more than 40 knots.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 8, 2005)

Thanks for staying in touch with us, Bermie. Nate has begun taking a direction, but Girl, you're not out of the woods yet. Remember Hurricane Jeanne last year? She was heading north into the Atlantic, hung a right going east, kept hanging a right, to the south, and on around this circle until she had a sight set directly on east central Florida where she slowly travelled straight toward the state and came ashore. The part to remember, with a hurricane, it ain't over til it's over.

We're going to keep a watch over you, Bermie, and just because we're going to move back onto the subject of Katrina, do not think that we're forgetting about you.


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## LightningLoader (Sep 9, 2005)

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7845030/
Check out the hurricane tracker here. Ophelia is making me a bit nervous after what Jeanne did last year. Watch Jeanne's path on the tracker and you'll see what I mean. Jean did like a Doughnut and came back and slammed FL and they say Ophelia could do the same.


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## Tree Machine (Sep 13, 2005)

*-end-*

Thank you all for your contributions to this thread. Since the actual storm is over and the focus is now on the cleanup, I'm going to close this thread and we'll continue on here at Hurricane Clean-up, http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=24470


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