# Do you know what tree is going to kill you?



## Westboastfaller (Jul 16, 2016)

The last one....
I had to see one of our partners last one on July 4.

You could draw a parallel to a faller an a fighter.
-You are only as good as your last fight
-you are only as good as the last tree you fell.

How is your status rating as a faller based on your last tree you felled?


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## Del_ (Jul 16, 2016)

My status rating must be pretty as the tree is still down.


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## chucker (Jul 16, 2016)

to be honest? 51/49 my favor, as with any tree and not knowing the heart of it .. you read the tree but do you always understand what you just read with out a second thought? most of the time we are skilled in luck of the profession. experience is a teacher that shares what we have learned only to give us a quick reference for skill. this is the way I choose to look at it as we are always learning. at least I do!


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 16, 2016)

Del_ said:


> My status rating must be pretty as the tree is still down.


 thanks for the cheer up. You were quick witted on that one Del. very funny stuff!



chucker said:


> to be honest? 51/49 my favor, as with any tree and not knowing the heart of it .. you read the tree but do you always understand what you just read with out a second thought? most of the time we are skilled in luck of the profession. experience is a teacher that shares what we have learned only to give us a quick reference for skill. this is the way I choose to look at it as we are always learning. at least I do!


 great outlook very well said


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## chucker (Jul 16, 2016)

THANK YOU ! west, but your answer is the top of the honesty scale! 'THE LAST ONE" is the one not to be forgotten by all survivor's. your answer also came to mind as I was reading your post header. we all need to stop an step back once in a while to thank our deceased teachers from their final lesson!


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 16, 2016)

My status today based on my last tree? Not good really. Ran out of gas a long way from my cash as it was mostly flat ground oddly enough. I was running the boundary opening up to make room for two Fallers after I left. 
Just then my Bullbucker said it was time for me to go and he was comming in to check my work. Then he asked me about the story of the snags that I was comming up to. I didn't have a story (a plan for them) because I didn't go to them and assess them and mark them with an axe for proof. So I said.. "let's talk about my ribbond saftey trail you walked up to get here.. isn't it nice? Then I said he has to start with a complaint then the $hit in the middle, then end on a positive note. I think I had him smiling then he said. "Let's go..you two have to get the plane.
Then I said ok but I have to go WAY up there and down there and finish Falling a tree!
So he called me on one of the "6 deadly sins" leaving a cut up tree. We are supposed to check gas before hand. Busted! Just about got half way and had to go back for my axe as I remembered it may have needed a wedge (no I wasn't going to try a soft Dutchmen against the lean either!) Tree went ever so nicely and I packed out.


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## Michigan Escapee (Jul 16, 2016)

The ones where the core is rotten, and you don't know where the solid wood is, those get "interesting". 

Pretty sure the center of this one was mostly carpenter ants and dirt.


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## chucker (Jul 16, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> My status today based on my last tree? Not good really. Ran out of gas a long way from my cash as it was mostly flat ground oddly enough. I was running the boundary opening up to make room for two Fallers after I left.
> Just then my Bullbucker said it was time for me to go and he was comming in to check my work. Then he asked me about the story of the snags that I was comming up to. I didn't have a story (a plan for them) because I didn't go to them and assess them and mark them with an axe for proof. So I said.. "let's talk about my ribbond saftey trail you walked up to get here.. isn't it nice? Then I said he has to start with a complaint then the $hit in the middle, then end on a positive note. I think I had him smiling then he said. "Let's go..you two have to get the plane.
> Then I said ok but I have to go WAY up there and down there and finish Falling a tree!
> So he called me on one of the "6 deadly sins" leaving a cut up tree. We are supposed to check gas before hand. Busted! Just about got half way and had to go back for my axe as I remembered it may have needed a wedge (no I wasn't going to try a soft Dutchmen against the lean either!) Tree went ever so nicely and I packed out.


? why no DutchWOMAN, lol i hear there vary soft when young and single.....


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 17, 2016)

chucker said:


> ? why no DutchWOMAN, lol i hear there vary soft when young and single.....


."The big bosomed lady with the dutch accent
Who tried to change my point of view
Her ad-lib lines were well rehearsed
But my heart cried out for you"

NO..NO..CUT...CUT...not you chucher..I like woman!.. honestly I do ..no really guys...GUYS!


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 17, 2016)

Michigan Escapee said:


> The ones where the core is rotten, and you don't know where the solid wood is, those get "interesting".
> 
> Pretty sure the center of this one was mostly carpenter ants and dirt.
> 
> View attachment 513759


 looks like heart rot disease? Nothing you can do with those other than pick the lean and clear out for it if safe to do so.
Dust in the wind


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## madhatte (Jul 18, 2016)

I had one on a fire last week that I just couldn't see a safe way to put down. Eventually I called for heavy equipment and had it pushed over with a Gradall. No macho points for me there, but I live to cut another day.


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## HuskStihl (Jul 18, 2016)

If a tree kills me, I bet it won't be the tree I was cutting on


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## bitzer (Jul 18, 2016)

HuskStihl said:


> If a tree kills me, I bet it won't be the tree I was cutting on


Yep, I'm not worried about the tree I'm cutting. It's usually what you don't see coming.


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## Skeans (Jul 18, 2016)

It'll either be a red alder or the one I don't see like a dead top leaving out of something you can't see.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 19, 2016)

I don't want to die in pain horizontally in this G_ _ Dam wet ********
I want to die horizontally in another wet hole


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## madhatte (Jul 19, 2016)

Skeans said:


> It'll either be a red alder or the one I don't see like a dead top leaving out of something you can't see.



Yep. I only hope it's quick.


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 19, 2016)

bitzer said:


> Yep, I'm not worried about the tree I'm cutting. It's usually what you don't see coming.





My Bullbucker cutting an 8ft spruce snag on my quarter.
He asked me on the radio the day before nearing the end of the day if I was going to get it done. I said I would do it in the morning when I was fresh and he said that's what he would do.
He was cutting next to me and he was comming over to go over the bucking card the next morning. I was dropping my rakers and he started cutting with my spare.
As soon as I finish he just reached out for me to pass him the better saw..lol. I new that was comming. Just made my day that much easier.

Snapped a few pics and a little vid he can show his grandson.
In the big snags more so the Cedar its usually the one your Falling because the tree comes down in slabs. You can't cut the middle out often because of all the splits so huge slabs peel out of every direction. Pieces start to drop or hang off higher up. The back starts separating from the heart and moving out of the cut. Sometimes you pound wedges in to try hold the weight from toppling over the middle that isn't all cut because you can't get anymore from any side without getting pinched
When the back starts to go then get out of there. You have to keep making undercuts taking the slabs one at a time. Always conventional on these unstable ones because you don't want a slab to slide down and fall back at you. They are lots of fun


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## 009L (Jul 19, 2016)

HuskStihl said:


> If a tree kills me, I bet it won't be the tree I was cutting on



No HS, 

It's the "tree" you're smoking that's going to kill you brother...

LMFAO!

Forgive me, it's late and I'm typing with one eye.


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## bitzer (Jul 19, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 514287
> 
> 
> My Bullbucker cutting an 8ft spruce snag on my quarter.
> ...


So that's why I see those guys cutting the same wood over again. No they dont look like fun. An unpredictable pain in the ass. Can't you guys blow some of those up? I mean theres no value in them when they slab out like that right? Or is that not practical?


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## northmanlogging (Jul 19, 2016)

if where going off the last tree I cut, 42" on the butt hemlock probably a peeler in the first log no knots fore the first 30' but iron in the bottom 3' a solid 36' and finished off with a 27' out of the top. Probably the best Hemlock i've cut in 2 years mostly only get 2 logs out of em and full of limbs.

Parallel with a house, did smash up a good fir saw log on the way down, but it didn't whack a stump and destroy everything. Tipped er off a steep ass ridge that is also the only way up for the Missus... that butt log nearly rolled the old girl down the hill... up on one wheel and the blade for a moment or 2


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## Michigan Escapee (Jul 19, 2016)

bitzer said:


> So that's why I see those guys cutting the same wood over again. No they dont look like fun. An unpredictable pain in the ass. Can't you guys blow some of those up? I mean theres no value in them when they slab out like that right? Or is that not practical?



In rare circumstances, you can use explosives to "cut" the tree, like this one. 

But in practical terms, there's no fracture plane like in rock, metal, brick, etc. So, you're pounding an amorphous material, full of water of course, lignin, other springy stuff, and that's gonna take LOTS of explosives. Unless you can use something for cutting, say a sheet of copper, or something else that will work as an explosive formed perpetrator to cut the material.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_formed_penetrator

All of this requires planning, some idea what the density and composition of the material is is, and about 4-5 explosive techs messing around for maybe 3-4 hours, and each billing out at about $150-450 an hour. That's for one big tree like in the picture. 

Smaller trees, say something under 14-16 inches, you can probably use a more or less standard I beam cut charge used for building demolition.

Smaller than 10 inches, you could probably just do about 5 loops of det cord, and call it good. But, all of em are most likely going to fall in a random direction unless you set up the cut planes, and delays, as if you were using an actual chainsaw. lol!

So how many saw monkeys can you hire for about $150 an hour, compared to a bunch of explosives techs? LOTS and LOTS! 

Also the big problem of using explosives is, you generate loads of noise, you have to zone off a whole area so someone doesn't get fragged, the wildlife is going to be made nuts in short order, and that means the Sierra Club, and the other duck squeezers will be up your ass in a hurry. This also assumes the local government isn't going to freak out over the assortment of risks associated.

If you've got an insanely huge forest fire, and need to create a firebreak on short notice, then they'll let people use explosives charges, or some other crazy thing. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/9/3-wildfires-spreading-in-central-washington-state/

Because in that circumstance, you're not destroying good wood, or creating a long term hazard. The whole region is gonna burn to the ground anyway.


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## HuskStihl (Jul 19, 2016)

Michigan Escapee said:


> In rare circumstances, you can use explosives to "cut" the tree, like this one.
> 
> But in practical terms, there's no fracture plane like in rock, metal, brick, etc. So, you're pounding an amorphous material, full of water of course, lignin, other springy stuff, and that's gonna take LOTS of explosives. Unless you can use something for cutting, say a sheet of copper, or something else that will work as an explosive formed perpetrator to cut the material.
> 
> ...



Holy crap. What a great poast! Thanks for the learnin'


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## Michigan Escapee (Jul 19, 2016)

Of course, the specifics of the post, in case anyone thought there were any, are complete wild assed guesses. 
There are REALLY REALLY good reasons why certified explosives techs get paid a shitload of money, and an incredible amount of bean counting, planning, and ass covering goes into a successful run. 

When dealing with weapons systems for the military, that's a whole different ballpark. 60% of your cluster munitions don't go off, and create a hazard for 60-70 years, oh well.... A mining engineer who did something like that, they'd seal his ass up in a tunnel and forget him. lol!


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## Gologit (Jul 19, 2016)

I've seen explosives used to take down snags. It wasn't terribly complicated. Holes were drilled around the base of the tree then stuffed with ANFO and a small booster and an electric cap. The holes were sealed, everybody got way waaaaay back, and the blaster set it off. We blew a half dozen snags that way on a burn salvage. No muss, no fuss, it only took a morning to do and there were good results.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 19, 2016)

Michigan Escapee said:


> In rare circumstances, you can use explosives to "cut" the tree, like this one.
> 
> But in practical terms, there's no fracture plane like in rock, metal, brick, etc. So, you're pounding an amorphous material, full of water of course, lignin, other springy stuff, and that's gonna take LOTS of explosives. Unless you can use something for cutting, say a sheet of copper, or something else that will work as an explosive formed perpetrator to cut the material.
> 
> ...



big long post like that and the best thing about it is duck sqeezer... gonna have to stael that one...


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## Michigan Escapee (Jul 19, 2016)

lol! Too late! 

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/duck-squeezer

The term was in a Neil Stephenson book called "Zodiac"


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## bitzer (Jul 19, 2016)

Gologit said:


> I've seen explosives used to take down snags. It wasn't terribly complicated. Holes were drilled around the base of the tree then stuffed with ANFO and a small booster and an electric cap. The holes were sealed, everybody got way waaaaay back, and the blaster set it off. We blew a half dozen snags that way on a burn salvage. No muss, no fuss, it only took a morning to do and there were good results.


That's what I thought...


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## bitzer (Jul 19, 2016)

Michigan Escapee said:


> In rare circumstances, you can use explosives to "cut" the tree, like this one.
> 
> But in practical terms, there's no fracture plane like in rock, metal, brick, etc. So, you're pounding an amorphous material, full of water of course, lignin, other springy stuff, and that's gonna take LOTS of explosives. Unless you can use something for cutting, say a sheet of copper, or something else that will work as an explosive formed perpetrator to cut the material.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the explanation. What ever happened to the good ole days?


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 19, 2016)

Here is some video of "Dazy" Bullbucking with Western Forest Products (WFP)
He now is with Interfor.
I had a pretty lengthy conversation with him about all of it in June in camp as well doing a course with him. He has been pushing for more availability to the jobs and getting all fallers ticketed. He feels fallers would be a better fit to deal with the problem. Its just a two day course. Any other blasting ticket has been made difficult to get. About 8 yrs ago things changed. He would like to see the material available for every Falling contract. About three and a half weeks ago I extended my shift an extra 2 weeks and flew out from the Interfor camp with Dazie and a Interfor QC. Ironically the Faller that was shifting out from were I was going was the Faller I speak of in my OP. Weather was bad so we all ended up going back to the camp he came from for the night (my destination) He went to his daughter grad and 4 days back and only his second day of the shift. A punky top section of a Balsam toppled back after it sat back on his saw and attempted to wedge it over. Branches from green trees likely impeded his vision.





 C


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## madhatte (Jul 20, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 514287



DAAAAAAAAAANG


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 20, 2016)

madhatte said:


> DAAAAAAAAAANG


 That thing was a pipe.
I had some pretty good White wood (Hemlock) walk logs down the draw to get up and down but that was a nice walk log. So strong that Spruce.
A faller was talking about some native land that they want to log and there is claims of Spruce as big as 23' Dia.
He said sounds too much like work to him. Maybe for some young guy that likes a challenge.lol That's huge wood


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## Bwildered (Jul 20, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> Here is some video of "Dazy" Bullbucking with Western Forest Products (WFP)
> He now is with Interfor.
> I had a pretty lengthy conversation with him about all of it in June in camp as well doing a course with him. He has been pushing for more availability to the jobs and getting all fallers ticketed. He feels fallers would be a better fit to deal with the problem. Its just a two day course. Any other blasting ticket has been made difficult to get. About 8 yrs ago things changed. He would like to see the material available for every Falling contract. About three and a half weeks ago I extended my shift an extra 2 weeks and flew out from the Interfor camp with Dazie and a Interfor QC. Ironically the Faller that was shifting out from were I was going was the Faller I speak of in my OP. Weather was bad so we all ended up going back to the camp he came from for the night (my destination) He went to his daughter grad and 4 days back and only his second day of the shift. A punky top section of a Balsam toppled back after it sat back on his saw and attempted to wedge it over. Branches from green trees likely impeded his vision.
> 
> ...



I'd imagine you only get one go at blowing trees down, so they'd be overloading them a tad so they don't have to go in & have another try! What a cream job! After 9/11 it cost if I remember correctly $600 to keep our shotfirers tickets here, so mines expired sitting in the drawer
Chachinski


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## Woos31 (Jul 20, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> My status today based on my last tree? Not good really. Ran out of gas a long way from my cash as it was mostly flat ground oddly enough. I was running the boundary opening up to make room for two Fallers after I left.
> Just then my Bullbucker said it was time for me to go and he was comming in to check my work. Then he asked me about the story of the snags that I was comming up to. I didn't have a story (a plan for them) because I didn't go to them and assess them and mark them with an axe for proof. So I said.. "let's talk about my ribbond saftey trail you walked up to get here.. isn't it nice? Then I said he has to start with a complaint then the $hit in the middle, then end on a positive note. I think I had him smiling then he said. "Let's go..you two have to get the plane.
> Then I said ok but I have to go WAY up there and down there and finish Falling a tree!
> So he called me on one of the "6 deadly sins" leaving a cut up tree. We are supposed to check gas before hand. Busted! Just about got half way and had to go back for my axe as I remembered it may have needed a wedge (no I wasn't going to try a soft Dutchmen against the lean either!) Tree went ever so nicely and I packed out.





Westboastfaller said:


> My status today based on my last tree? Not good really. Ran out of gas a long way from my cash as it was mostly flat ground oddly enough. I was running the boundary opening up to make room for two Fallers after I left.
> Just then my Bullbucker said it was time for me to go and he was comming in to check my work. Then he asked me about the story of the snags that I was comming up to. I didn't have a story (a plan for them) because I didn't go to them and assess them and mark them with an axe for proof. So I said.. "let's talk about my ribbond saftey trail you walked up to get here.. isn't it nice? Then I said he has to start with a complaint then the $hit in the middle, then end on a positive note. I think I had him smiling then he said. "Let's go..you two have to get the plane.
> Then I said ok but I have to go WAY up there and down there and finish Falling a tree!
> So he called me on one of the "6 deadly sins" leaving a cut up tree. We are supposed to check gas before hand. Busted! Just about got half way and had to go back for my axe as I remembered it may have needed a wedge (no I wasn't going to try a soft Dutchmen against the lean either!) Tree went ever so nicely and I packed out.


Well pard at least your thinkin about the big picture and talkin with us knuckleheads regarding everything. That's a big part of it pard is seeing your own actions and knowing it's time to get our self focused more cuz I'm on the list most the time too. Last tree I fell was a hazard tree, forked top with on forked broke out in a wind storm, and 20 ft crack down the stem. The remaining top was on the back side of lean I just knew that if I sent it to the lean that sucker would fold over and break out when it started to go. Ended up pulling it around so the top was pushing back against the crack instead of pulling. Moral of it is I too had to leave the tree in the back cut and get a wedge from the pickup as said tree was hangin out toward one of our roads and I found the tree while cleaning up storm damage. With that said my last tree obviously ended well but I left myself open to opportunity at the same time, so I'd consider my last tree wasn't a good one. Also Jamie I'd like to say Thank you for starting this thread because it makes you think and in depth about our own actions. Whether a guy replies in this thread or not, when reading through they are thinking about it and that's the whole point of it...........switch the brain to 'ON' and look around. Thanks again pard and safe cuttin


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 20, 2016)

Bwildered said:


> I'd imagine you only get one go at blowing trees down, so they'd be overloading them a tad so they don't have to go in & have another try! What a cream job! After 9/11 it cost if I remember correctly $600 to keep our shotfirers tickets here, so mines expired sitting in the drawer
> Chachinski


Yes, It gets done right the first time. There is a couple methods. Root blast or trunk blast, as well a partial cut up in conjunction with...
I don't think anyone only blast trees for a living And it can be pretty tough getting around. Sometimes the Faller dosen't cut the low side up enough on big cedar snags and uses bullet tree's to finish it off. If it isn't cut up right then its not going to go over. So the blaster can come into a mess with branches from other tree's hanging above.
Hopefully the Faller will clean his mess up so they can get in and out.

I knew a blaster that got interagated pretty good flying in the states because they found material on his lap top keyboard.
Just a 7 hour delay...lol


bitzer said:


> So that's why I see those guys cutting the same wood over again. No they dont look like fun. An unpredictable pain in the ass. Can't you guys blow some of those up? I mean theres no value in them when they slab out like that right? Or is that not practical?


Cedar Slabs are good, usually have to be 10"x 10" or 12"X12" and 12.5 ft (3.8 metre) to fly them. Probably 6" on conventional logging.
Most will look like this one below, wet and dark red. You just count the inches in the collar of the light coloured Cedar. You don't end up looking at most of them like this. Although many may have a very strong shell.
This one has a story that I'll share later. There is just so many big cedar snags in areas. You have to learn to do most of them and most importantly
know when to call for qualified assistant. A second set of eyes is always best. They my grab your saw and do it pretty easy in a way you didn't see. That's a good way to get the experience and prospective. The other partner on the other side had a 40 year coast vet faller come over twice and look at trees in just a few days. The other guy has 25 yrs on the coast.
I asked the Vet if they were going to blast it and he said he hadn't decided yet. Said he may get it with a 42" and has done worse but realized the more he's been around them the more he knows now he shouldn't have touched a lot of them.


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## madhatte (Jul 20, 2016)

I say again: DAAAAAAAAAAAANG. Big wood is one thing -- big snags are a whole 'nother ball of wax!


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## Skeans (Jul 20, 2016)

madhatte said:


> I say again: DAAAAAAAAAAAANG. Big wood is one thing -- big snags are a whole 'nother ball of wax!


Makes you wish we could still blast down here as easy as they can up there don't it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 21, 2016)

Woos31 said:


> Well pard at least your thinkin about the big picture and talkin with us knuckleheads regarding everything. That's a big part of it pard is seeing your own actions and knowing it's time to get our self focused more cuz I'm on the list most the time too. Last tree I fell was a hazard tree, forked top with on forked broke out in a wind storm, and 20 ft crack down the stem. The remaining top was on the back side of lean I just knew that if I sent it to the lean that sucker would fold over and break out when it started to go. Ended up pulling it around so the top was pushing back against the crack instead of pulling. Moral of it is I too had to leave the tree in the back cut and get a wedge from the pickup as said tree was hangin out toward one of our roads and I found the tree while cleaning up storm damage. With that said my last tree obviously ended well but I left myself open to opportunity at the same time, so I'd consider my last tree wasn't a good one. Also Jamie I'd like to say Thank you for starting this thread because it makes you think and in depth about our own actions. Whether a guy replies in this thread or not, when reading through they are thinking about it and that's the whole point of it...........switch the brain to 'ON' and look around. Thanks again pard and safe cuttin


^^^this
Well my friend, you nailed it on all accounts. Cool! You can really write..lol yeah what he said!. I guess that chit is on my mind, being mindful at least on the job. We are creatures of habit. Why not let them be good ones. Thats pretty easy but it's more than going through the motions of good habits. Complacency with good habits still equals complacency. As you say; "switch you brain to on and look around" you only have to be wrong once. No pressure or Nothing


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## madhatte (Jul 21, 2016)

Skeans said:


> Makes you wish we could still blast down here as easy as they can up there don't it?



Just today, even. Little stuff in tight spaces is a pain in the ass, and I'd have loved to level it all, glass-parking-lot style. Took every trick I know to get a few on the ground and still left one hanging for tomorrow. Training noobs is probably the toughest thing I do.


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## Westboastfaller (Jul 21, 2016)

madhatte said:


> I say again: DAAAAAAAAAAAANG. Big wood is one thing -- big snags are a whole 'nother ball of wax!


 isn't that a fact! I know guys broke in and never cut a green tree for a year. Just learned how to get good at the ugly ones.


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## Woos31 (Jul 21, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> ^^^this
> Well my friend, you nailed it on all accounts. Cool! You can really write..lol yeah what he said!. I guess that chit is on my mind, being mindful at least on the job. We are creatures of habit. Why not let them be good ones. Thats pretty easy but it's more than going through the motions of good habits. Complacency with good habits still equals complacency. As you say; "switch you brain to on and look around" you only have to be wrong once. No pressure or Nothing


Yes sir, I'm as bad as the next fella about doing it the same and even though it goes okay each scenario is different. Until our complacency catches up with us and things are gettin a bit sideways does our brain engage to on, then the oh **** starts creeping in and things worked out obviously as we're here bullshitting about it. Keep up the input here guys, whether we agree or not this is good for us all, safe cuttin men


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## madhatte (Jul 22, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> isn't that a fact! I know guys broke in and never cut a green tree for a year. Just learned how to get good at the ugly ones.



That's some brutal old-school initiation. I bet it makes a fine faller of the graduate, and sends plenty packing.


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## BenjaminPQ (Aug 4, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 514287
> 
> 
> My Bullbucker cutting an 8ft spruce snag on my quarter.
> ...



I get really nervous cutting down my 12 in trees. I can't imagine cutting on something that big. Respect.


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## Hddnis (Aug 4, 2016)

Big old dead pine snag full of ants that was miserable for me and could have been a close call. Got pretty scared cutting it, I always swear the next one like that I'll use a trackhoe or some sort of explosive.

I really hope my last tree is something spectacular, gets a billion hits on youtube, and years later at my funeral they play the footage as an example of how good I was and how I kept on working into old age. Odds are against that though.


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## Woos31 (Aug 4, 2016)

Hddnis said:


> Big old dead pine snag full of ants that was miserable for me and could have been a close call. Got pretty scared cutting it, I always swear the next one like that I'll use a trackhoe or some sort of explosive.
> 
> I really hope my last tree is something spectacular, gets a billion hits on youtube, and years later at my funeral they play the footage as an example of how good I was and how I kept on working into old age. Odds are against that though.


Sounds like a cool idea but I don't think I want myself getting the bug on the windshield treatment recorded, I'm following the going down in a blaze of glory idea you've got and had an image of America's funniest home videos type thing in my head but I've been to far to many fatal car wrecks for traffic control that I don't wanna see somebody get kilt on video. It's not sounding like I'm thinking it out in my head and I mean nothing derogatory toward your post Hddnis just a thought in general that ran astray lol


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## Hddnis (Aug 4, 2016)

I know what you mean, I can't watch those "fail" videos on youtube. Been there, seen the real fails, watched as the FD hosed them off the pavement before I told the state or county road crews to re-open the road.

Sometimes the images haunt my dreams, I have to commit the victims to God Almighty and move on with life. Seen too many cops and FF's that were emotionally ruined after a career dealing with it, they got to where no one wanted to be around them, you have to let it go.

This thread has to turned my thoughts macabre.

I think that is sometimes why we take risks, it is striving to master what could kill us. All of society benefits from that learning and growing. If someone pushes too far we call them crazy, say they should have seen it coming, but most times they didn't want to die, they really thought they had a chance. If they make it then yet another danger has been conquered and as a species our mastery of nature grows.

Like jumping from 25k with oxygen but no parachute.


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## Westboastfaller (Aug 7, 2016)

My last tree? Undercut back.cut.
Big bubbles..no troubles


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## GilksTreeFelling (Aug 7, 2016)

nope i dont know what tree is gonna kill me, i can only be thankfull it wasnt the last one, and do my best to make sure it isnt the next one


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## Big_Wood (Aug 27, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 514287
> 
> 
> My Bullbucker cutting an 8ft spruce snag on my quarter.
> ...



definitely a cut up and run situation lol you shouldn't be scaring bitzer with those west coast pics Jamie.


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## bitzer (Aug 28, 2016)

westcoaster90 said:


> definitely a cut up and run situation lol you shouldn't be scaring bitzer with those west coast pics Jamie.


Hard to be scared of something you've never seen. I haven't walked up to a situation in the woods scared. Wary yes. I'd like to see some pics from you occasionally just so i know your not full of ****.


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## Big_Wood (Aug 28, 2016)

bitzer said:


> Hard to be scared of something you've never seen. I haven't walked up to a situation in the woods scared. Wary yes. I'd like to see some pics from you occasionally just so i know your not full of ****.



i don't carry my phone in the woods as it's a pain in the ass to worry about it. i'll get one one day just for you though bitzer.  a 8' at the base standing tower of mush is pretty scary even for the best guys though. that one must have had some solid in it as i don't know anyone mad enough to get under something like that without being certain it's gonna hold together.


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## madhatte (Aug 29, 2016)

Was sharing horror stories with my crew today and remembered the "no-face" cut. Does anybody remember where to find a video of this? I already looked through Logger Wade's YouTube; it appears that he has deleted the one I was looking for.


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## Gypo Logger (Aug 29, 2016)

No face is permissible if your saw is faster than the tree can fall and the tree is committed, but generally used on small wood. Stump jumping is often times more safer and productive, but once again, you need a fast saw and a sharp chain and the right body English.


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## HuskStihl (Aug 29, 2016)

Timber Tool said:


> No face is permissible if your saw is faster than the tree can fall


That's why I don't go anywhere without my Stihl MS290 FARMBOSS!


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## northmanlogging (Aug 30, 2016)

crippled a little guy today... 

one of our kamikaze chipmunks, not sure if he was living in the top of tree or what, ole rotten snag...

Had the wife with me, since I had to climb a couple today... she wasn't real happy about it, poor little bugger was kicking and screaming.

These are the chipmunks that will see a car coming down the road, get centered with ya and wait for you to pass over them... or just chill on the white/yellow lines as cars go whizzing by.


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## madhatte (Sep 1, 2016)

Declined to cut a tree on a fire yesterday, with a fairly solid contingency plan in case I had to cut it anyway. It burned out and fell over a few hours later. Gonna wonder some whether my plan woulda worked or not, but I won't lose sleep over passing it up. Yet another time where I am happy to have machinery to call for once stuff hits the ground.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 1, 2016)

this afternoon, there are a couple of dead snags leaning over a major road, that I was fortunate enough to be called to "help" with... not real thrilled about this one...


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## Westboastfaller (Sep 2, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> this afternoon, there are a couple of dead snags leaning over a major road, that I was fortunate enough to be called to "help" with... not real thrilled about this one...


Northmanoffewwords yesterday. Ok I guess we will write our own ending....

Ow! Come on man! we can't stand the suspense!


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## northmanlogging (Sep 3, 2016)

oh... sorry...

rotten assed hemlocks took 4 down thursday and the wind picked up... hit it again monday evening.

convinced the guy in charge not to mess with the two next to the road. if it goes its going to take out the main lines and cross the road, condition of the others was less then optimal i.e. a few slivers of solid wood but mostly punk, so climbing the leaner isn't really an option...


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## Gologit (Sep 6, 2016)

You won't know which tree kills you. The one that gets you will be the one you never saw coming.


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## Westboastfaller (Sep 6, 2016)

Gologit said:


> You won't know which tree kills you. The one that gets you will be the one you never saw coming.


And how much control of that "one we never saw comming" does the faller have control of wouldn't you all think? Whether it be extra cut up trees or breaking of tops from brushing or wedging.


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## rwoods (Sep 6, 2016)

Minor injury, but interesting read on how the injury occurred. Sounds like something that could happen to me. 

http://www.wildfirelessons.net/High...b51-d57b-ea85-9d65-59c33402381b&forceDialog=0 

Ron


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## madhatte (Sep 6, 2016)

rwoods said:


> Minor injury, but interesting read on how the injury occurred. Sounds like something that could happen to me.
> 
> http://www.wildfirelessons.net/High...b51-d57b-ea85-9d65-59c33402381b&forceDialog=0
> 
> Ron



Excellent and timely lesson-learned. I'll share it with the crew in the morning.


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## ropensaddle (Sep 6, 2016)

Probably my family tree


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## northmanlogging (Sep 7, 2016)

So about them rotten hemlocks....

Top of one tried to get me, last big one on the job, broke out of a neighboring tree.

I wasn't left standing around watching the tree go, I was 20' away and possibly screaming like a little girl.

Of course it was right next to power lines too.


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## rwoods (Sep 7, 2016)

I guess there is a reason certain trees are designated as danger/hazard trees.

Glad you okay, NM. And that a few more danger trees have been downed.

Ron


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## Woos31 (Sep 13, 2016)

Was designated to the dumb end of a wood chipper end of last week and our 'certified pro' chainsaw, limbing, and brushing guy and an apprentice were working away making more work than necessary but that's off topic. Anyway had this large for a lodgepole tree that had snow damage at the ground so it had grown oval shaped 6-8 inches thick by 26" wide then tapered back to round at about 24" three feet up. This guy had the apprentice limb and top the tree, then he heads in to fall a 30' stem, leaning pretty hard but nothing to hit. I about had a heart attack.................and a good thing it was topped be a use this dip$hit deploys a sizzorbill flat cut only and a back cut in er and never once looked up the stem! I couldn't F-ing believe it. My first thought was holy **** he's gonna kill himself keeping that sorta chit up and we're all gonna see it because we're all watching out when trees are being cut along a road. It have me the creeps, this same guy cuts and sells firewood and I'm not sure how he's still alive after that display. I'm no faller by any stretch and won't claim to be, but I was taught as a timber faller's son how to not kill myself with a saw. Maybe I'm blowing that out of proportion but it fits the bill and every time he starts a saw and looks up a tree 'I' think it's his last one............


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## Westboastfaller (Sep 13, 2016)

Well we lost another friend yesterday. A lot of guys here came from a company that dispersed in June and knew him very well. The guys had there share of crying last year with two fatalities in 7 months. Same guy that was first on scene (Falling partner) of the July 2015 fatality was again first on sceen two days ago. Unbelievable. One was 24yr old & this guy 26 yr old. Work was optional today. We are raising money here for "him".
I heard it was a snag top?? A guy talked to the partner that was with him but he didn't want to ask.


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## madhatte (Sep 14, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> Well we lost another friend yesterday.



Dang, man, hats off. Heads up, be careful and all that.


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## HuskStihl (Sep 15, 2016)

I can't imagine cutting the day after being first on scene to a fatality. Takes a special sort.


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## Woos31 (Sep 16, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> Well we lost another friend yesterday. A lot of guys here came from a company that dispersed in June and knew him very well. The guys had there share of crying last year with two fatalities in 7 months. Same guy that was first on scene (Falling partner) of the July 2015 fatality was again first on sceen two days ago. Unbelievable. One was 24yr old & this guy 26 yr old. Work was optional today. We are raising money here for "him".
> I heard it was a snag top?? A guy talked to the partner that was with him but he didn't want to ask.


Can't hit like on that stuff, don't feel right. Good on you guys for puttin yer wages in for the young man. He's fallin on the big show north of the clouds now pard, bunch of Damn good guys up there teachin him too. Heck I got a loggin crew worth of kin up there with him and uncle Buzz singin the good ol logger tunes in camp every night where the beer's free, sleep is long, and yer boots don't get wet in the day. No need fer a wedge cuz, the wind don't blow, so trees wont balance on the hinge. Weather's nice, no threat uh snow an ice, the birds just sing, an ya can't even make a bee mad nuff tuh sting. I can't sing a lick ner play an instrument but that garbage sure sounds like a Buzz Martin song, wish I could a seen him cut timber and perform before he passed. My grandpa tells stories of doing such with him, he wrote the cat skinnin gypo logger sing and Buzz recorded it. In the verse talking about the guy hangin the cat on a stump was another great uncle the was my grandpa's partner in their fallin outfit which grandpa's brother, brother in law (killed while working for them) my 2 uncle's and my dad.


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## Westboastfaller (Sep 17, 2016)

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...645599572&set=a.433642754572.215963.645599572
Celebration of life will be for Ian Lawson
tomorrow. Ian was taken last Sunday on the hill, north west on Vancouver island. I just heard the plane come in to fly some of his friends/co-workers down coast.

This link will take you through his FB. I picked that pic because he looked so young and new. Like him and many others, you grow up quickly into a man.
Ian was just 23.
Click on his profile page and the pic above was his good friend Dustin falling the big tree. Dustin was predeceased in July of last year. I was to partner up with a young guy here yesterday but weather changed the plans. all three broke in together in 2013.


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## 1270d (Sep 17, 2016)

Has it been a bad stretch or are fatalities a regularity that we uninitiated don't often hear of? @Westboastfaller


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## Woos31 (Sep 17, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...645599572&set=a.433642754572.215963.645599572
> Celebration of life will be for Ian Lawson
> tomorrow. Ian was taken last Sunday on the hill, north west on Vancouver island. I just heard the plane come in to fly some of his friends/co-workers down coast.
> 
> ...


Geez he does look a young man in that photo. Rest easy Mr Lawson


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## Westboastfaller (Sep 19, 2016)

1270d said:


> Has it been a bad stretch or are fatalities a regularity that we uninitiated don't often hear of? @Westboastfaller


 IDK, There was a big spike in July 2015 of four coast fallers fatalities.
but no other fallers died that year. The total in the loggers sector was 5 0nly by year end. In 2005 there was 43 deaths in industry and from '95 to '05 there was an average of 32. In 2014 was the lowest ever at 3 , 2 being fallers. 2011 & 12 , 10 & 11 fatalities over all. 2006 & 7 not one faller was killed in BC. I believe we are at about 8 fatalities per year from 2008 - present in the logging sec. Perhaps, maybe 4-5 fallers per year. If it wasn't for the Internet then you wouldn't here about them or work as or know a coast faller then noboby will hear about it on BCTV News either.
One case last july was a very high profile case because it involved a fire just of Vancouver lower mainland. Another one a super snorkel of a major licensee uprooted a large tree behind a fallers back. Noboby ever heard about that.


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## Woos31 (Sep 19, 2016)

Westboastfaller said:


> IDK, There was a big spike in July 2015 of four coast fallers fatalities.
> but no other fallers died that year. The total in the loggers sector was 5 0nly by year end. In 2005 there was 43 deaths in industry and from '95 to '05 there was an average of 32. In 2014 was the lowest ever at 3 , 2 been fallers. 2011 & 12 , 10 & 11 fatalities over all. 2006 & 7 not one faller was killed in BC. I believe we are at about 8 fatalities per year from 2008 - present in the logging sec. Perhaps, maybe 4-5 fallers per year. If it wasn't for the Internet then you wouldn't here about them or work as or know a coast faller then noboby will hear about it on BCTV News either.
> One case last july was a very high profile case because it involved a fire just of Vancouver lower mainland. Another one a super snorkel of a major licensee uprooted a large tree behind a fallers back. Noboby ever heard about that.


Yeah I hear ya on the certain ones the news is all over and others are husha husha depending on circumstances.


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## Westboastfaller (Sep 19, 2016)

Here is my healthy respect on "threading the needle" (falling through a close canopy) more specifically, white wood snags was and is the topic. This section is from a post on Aug 14 on pg 565 in "Falling Pictures"

"when you stand in some of this terrain here you have to THINK LIKE you are cemented in concrete because that's the way it feels. GETTING AWAY from a large falling top at times seems like BAD ODDS. You don't even have
to be wedging white snags to get it from a top"

Ian lost his life taking a white wood snag prematurely opposed to progressively.
Sadly , he knew what tree,^^^^


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## madhatte (Sep 19, 2016)

I freakin' hate snags.


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## Westboastfaller (Mar 11, 2017)

*Faller killed by uprooted tree on B.C. coast*






February 14, 2017

By Tamar Atik

Feb. 14, 2017 - A logger killed in the Woods Lagoon area of B.C. on Feb. 4 was the first harvesting fatality of 2017, according to the BC Forest Safety Council.

The faller was struck by a tree, uphill from where he was working.

"Our condolences go out to the family and co-workers of the deceased," BC Forest Safety said in a statement.

The council released the following safety information as a precaution to others:


_Red and yellow cedars in rocky areas with shallow or wet soils are likely to be unstable. Cedars naturally have shallow roots and other characteristic hazards. A list of hazards for the common tree species is below or on page 2 of this alert._

_Weather conditions can cause significant changes in ground conditions. Heavy rainfall can reduce soil strength which causes landslides and tree instability. Frequent freeze and thaw cycles can create ground instability and rockfall._

_Overhead hazards are difficult to see and are often a cause of falling incidents. Take the time to assess the tree and look for hazards like limb tied trees and dead tops or branches._

_Many falling incidents are the result of chain reactions. The tree being felled can cause unexpected movement in nearby trees, logs, rootwads or rocks. As part of the hazard assessment, anticipate what chain reactions may occur._
The fatality is currently under investigation by WorkSafeBC and the Coroners Service.

~like you said Donny.
"I'll see you on the next one"


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## bnmc98 (Mar 11, 2017)

So sad to hear about the fatalities.
I had a close call the other day. There is a difference in my mind when it comes to focus. Sometimes it takes a lot of energy to stay focused to be safe. Probably what tires me out the most. I find it much easier in the big stuff to stay focused on what I am doing. You're at the tree longer and can pay attention to what you are dong more. When it comes to smaller stuff, I move fast... sometimes its just a rhythm, and when paid by production, I want them down. I find it harder to focus intently, and move fast at the same time. That being said, I was cutting some smaller fir on a ridge top, I was struggling with one trying to swing it and blipped the throttle too much. In an effort to get it down I was not paying attention. cut most of the holding wood off. Luckily I saw strange movement and noticed the top was coming over me. I had just enough time to scramble to the uphill side as it came over right where I was cutting.

Complacency like mine, was probably not at fault for the fatalities. But they are healthy but sad reminders to get your game on.

I have a collection of events in logging that I know it is only by God's grace that I am still here.
Most of them on the saw.


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## Westboastfaller (Mar 11, 2017)

bnmc98 said:


> Sometimes it takes a lot of energy to stay focused to be safe. Probably what tires me out the most.



It's a very mentality exausting job.
Mostly people think of the phisical fatigue. I've said it before and I'll say it again. "It's the mental fatigue is the reason why we work 6 hours on the saw.



bnmc98 said:


> So sad to hear about the fatalities.
> 
> I find it much easier in the big stuff to stay focused on what I am doing. You're at the tree longer and can pay attention to what you are dong more. When it comes to smaller stuff, I move fast... sometimes its just a rhythm, and when paid by production, I want them down. I find it harder to focus intently, and move fast at the same time.


You are right but the norm is different to me. I have tention deficit as well I have hyper active disorder. my sugar spikes and so do my trees...haha. I'm generaly a mess in my life. If I don't run Hi-Ball...I can't consentrate. I am very defensive...I am a reactive guy! I'm probably one of the top guys for making bad mistakes on here. That's simply because I have more handle bar hours than most. thats a fact.

I'm going to peace out Bro.

I have more to add to your post.
I will share some good stories on the hill with Donny and I.
I did post some pics on here with him standing on a heli pad we built in June.
.....just can't find then yet.
What a awesome guy! Everbody loved Donny!/

Thnk you

Jamie


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## Westboastfaller (Mar 11, 2017)

Cali Valley girls? Suckling **** for a livng . Come to the fu Ken BC and step a side green horns


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