# Climbing gear for Newb



## Jester (Jul 4, 2006)

I'm interested it climbing and maybe part time limbing(way down the road) and would like some input on what gear to get. I was looking at http://www.hallssafety.com/index.html cause I live near the wharehouse, I'm looking for gear for a smaller budget but will give me alot of bang for the buck. 

I'm going to be talking to some local companys about trying to learn the trade, as I know one small freelance is going to retire soon, and I'd like to pick his brain. 

Also I'd like to know where to start looking into liability insurance. 

I have experience felling trees, but its always been for firewood, and some people are starting to ask me to do jobs that I'd never even thought about doing, and am really interested.

Thanks in advance
John


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## Fireaxman (Jul 4, 2006)

Jester, you might get a better response on this in the "Arborist 101" forum. The Commercial forum is sometimes frequented by some pretty salty folks. 

Your question has been answered many times in Arboristsite. What you really need is some help learning how to use the "Search" function in the green bar at the top of the screen.


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## begleytree (Jul 4, 2006)

Fireaxman said:


> Jester, you might get a better response on this in the "Arborist 101" forum.



you're right, let's try it over there.
thread moved
-Ralph


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## Fireaxman (Jul 4, 2006)

Jester, try this. Click on "Search" in the green bar at the top of the screen. Scroll down to "Advanced Search" and click on it. On the next screen use "Keyword" (s) like maybe "Interested in climbing". "Find Threads" with at least 10 replies, "Any Date" and Newer. "Search Forums" *Arborist 101 *. That will give you a pretty good start.


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## Jester (Jul 5, 2006)

Thanks for the heads up.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 6, 2006)

It really helps to have specific questions, though I understand that in the beginning you don't really know what the right questions are to ask. Also to provide us with enough detail about your background, what tools you have, it helps us focus the best feedback for you. Pictures of your current gear is helpful.


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## Jester (Jul 7, 2006)

Well, thats the problem. I don't have any gear yet. Right now I'm set to ground bound jobs cause I dont know anything about climbing.:bang: I'm going to purchace the one climbing book that everyone reccomends.


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## Fireaxman (Jul 8, 2006)

*Getting a Start*

Jester, it kind of depends on how sure you are that you will like climbing. A quick warning about starting low - dollar, especially on a climbing saddle - cheap saddles are uncomfortable, and if you start out uncomfortable you might decide you dont like it right from the start. 

Keep me streight on this, Tree Machine, I learn from you. But I'll stick my neck out and give this a try for simple basic first time climbing, since I was there not long ago.

A copy of Jepson's "Tree Climber's Companion" (TCC) is mandatory, and I suggest you read it thoroughly before you buy any gear. Jepson describes Dynamic (Double Rope Dynamic Technique) and Static (Single Rope Technique, SRT, and Doubled Rope Static technique). The climbing technique you choose has everything to do with what kind of equipment you need, so you have to make this decision first (at least on which technique you START with). SRT is more equipment intensive because you will need ascenders and descenders, and they aint cheap, so I suggest you start with Double Rope Dynamic for Cheap.

A coach is a wonderful idea. I really do NOT recomend learning this off the internet. You need someone to check your knots to be sure they are right, show you how to select a secure Tie In Point, belay you on your early attempts, and generally "Show you The Ropes".

Learn at least 2 knots and learn them well - your life will depend on them. I suggest Bowline with Yosemite Tie Off and Blake's Friction Hitch. They are in Jepson's book (TCC), and if those illustrations dont get it for you TheTreeSpyder has some good knot illustrations, or search the web, or search Arboristsite. There are a lot of other good knots, and each climber has his favorites, but basicly you need a good attachment knot and a good friction hitch.

I think Minimum equipment would be a throwline and weight (polypro slick line with a 12 to 16 oz throw bag for cheap) to get your ropes in the tree, a saddle (Weaver Cotton Canvas with Butt Strap for cheap, but remember what I said about comfort), a couple pair of Smurf gloves (Latex Palmed gloves like Uglies or Atlas for rope and tool handling), a good pair of shoes or boots with an aggresive tread (like Vibram), and at least 120 feet of (for cheap) Arbor Plex climbing line (do not trust your life to hardware store nylon rope).

How's that for a start, Tree Machine?


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## Tree Machine (Jul 8, 2006)

Real good, FireAxe. Especially the part about cheap, uncomfortable gear clouding the enjoyment that can be gotten from climbing.


My Dad bought my nephew a cheap-o garage sale guitar in an attempt to encourage him in the direction of playing music. I would have to ask any of you, is this failure from the start? The neck was warped, the strings dead, the string tensioners lame, the instrument was difficult to get close to tuned, and once there fell out quickly. There was simply no way to make music. It looked like a guitar, felt like a guitar, but played like an over-ripe banana.

My approach was START the student with a decent instrument so there's some sort of gratification, the student can receive the benefit of what the instrument has to offer.


I feel the same way with tree gear. Do NOT buy a used saw that won't start just because it's cheap. DON'T buy your rope from the Home Depot. Cheap, unsafe gear puts you on an immediate slow track.


Entry into ANY industry has costs. You wanna make semiconductors, you need millions. Wanna make pizzas for a living, 10's of thousands to get in. Tree Trimming? A $40 Silky and you can professionally deadwood and prune ornamentals. $200 for a professional pruner head and three sticks, you can prune most ornamentals full-service and you should be able to recoup your $240 in the first day. There's not too many industries that you can enter, without a license, certification, or training of any kind and that comes with a website wher you get free, professional advice from all over the world, just for asking?


The point is, commit to spending a small wad to get started and start on the proper foot. Good gear can be sold if you choose to exit the line of work. Suck gear will never find a warm home. Anyone here will agree, that without tools, a treeman is just a man. With no tools we are capable of no work. With lame tools we are capable of mediocre work that squeaks you by in your struggle to forge your reputation and income. With excellent tools we are capable of excellent work, excellent quality, excellent safety and the confidence that comes from KNOWING your gear is rated, tested, built for the job, sound and reliable. You can be all you can be. Summary: You are your tools.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 8, 2006)

Everyone repeat, _you are your tools._


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## Tree Machine (Jul 8, 2006)

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## Tree Machine (Jul 8, 2006)

Thank you.

You _will_ be tested on this.


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## trevmcrev (Jul 8, 2006)

Tree Machine said:


> Thank you.
> 
> You _will_ be tested on this.



:monkey: What are we again???????????????????????

Just kidding, our tools i got it:biggrinbounce2: 

Trev


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## Jester (Jul 8, 2006)

Thanks guys... As you said I'm going to start slow. I am going to buy probably one pc ov equip as I can afford it and get something that will last. 

I do that their are many companys in my area that sell "the good stuff".

Also as you said, I have to see If I like it or not. I'm not to afraid of rockclimbing or rapalling(sp) as the Marines tought me the hard way to do that(rope rigging). 

I'm just looking for something I can do as a hobby that may have perks eventually. 

Thanks for the advice.. I'm looking for that book on amazon right now.
:yoyo:


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## clearance (Jul 8, 2006)

Tree Machine said:


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You ARE tools.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 9, 2006)

Clearance said:


> You ARE tools.


That's a legitimate answer. You get an A on the test, Clearance.


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## Remington0404 (Jul 9, 2006)

*i'm a newb too heres what i got*

I have a floating D style saddle with leg straps, klein spikes with the velcro wrap pads with the steel shin support (best thing i bought) High V saftey blue rope. a microcender for my saftey, and a throw line.

...i tried a double d style saddle but didn't like it because in my opinion it restricts ur movement. the leg straps i like because without them my saddle kept moving around to much.

the pads for my spikes cost about 100 bucks by them selves.. but i think it was worth everybit... they don't dig or rub on my shins in any way.

thats just my 2 cents... i'm sure guys here have more insite then me.. like i said i'm a newb too and only been climbing like 1 or 2 days a week if i'm lucky, for about 6 months


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## Tree Machine (Jul 9, 2006)

Your honesty about it is much appreciated.

You're a classic case, a noob looking to expand himself from part time tree cutting to professional climbing and arboriculture.


Welcome.


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## Fireaxman (Jul 9, 2006)

Tree Machine said:


> ... My approach was START the student with a decent instrument so there's some sort of gratification, the student can receive the benefit of what the instrument has to offer.
> 
> 
> I feel the same way with tree gear. Do NOT buy a used saw that won't start just because it's cheap. DON'T buy your rope from the Home Depot. Cheap, unsafe gear puts you on an immediate slow track......



Excellent post, Tree Machine, and a strange coincidence. I was thinking specificly about a new guitar student when I wrote the the part about comfort, and I dont know how many times I'll have to flunk the test before I learn the lesson. Started on a cheap guitar, a HomeyXL, and a Klein Buttstrap in 1985. Traded the cheap Yamaha guitar for a Martin 10 years ago and wondered why I waited so long. Trashed the Wallmart homeys and bought a stable full of Stihls over the last 5 years and rejoice daily (stihl have some pre-Textron homeys though, no complaints about the XL12, superEZ, 330). Finally got out of the Kliein buttstrap for a Buckingham Traverse last week and I cannot believe I was such an idiot for hanging in that Klein for so long (except that I tortured myself with a Navajo BOD for a few months until the webbing frayed).

Oh well. Slow learner. Jester - Tree Machine and Clearance are giving you good advice. Take your time and invest in good stuff.

Clearance, Tree Machine, and Remington - what kind of spurs and pads do I need to get when I replace my old (1985) Klein spurs?


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## trevmcrev (Jul 10, 2006)

Fireaxman said:


> Excellent post, Tree Machine, and a strange coincidence. I was thinking specificly about a new guitar student when I wrote the the part about comfort, and I dont know how many times I'll have to flunk the test before I learn the lesson. Started on a cheap guitar, a HomeyXL, and a Klein Buttstrap in 1985. Traded the cheap Yamaha guitar for a Martin 10 years ago and wondered why I waited so long. Trashed the Wallmart homeys and bought a stable full of Stihls over the last 5 years and rejoice daily (stihl have some pre-Textron homeys though, no complaints about the XL12, superEZ, 330). Finally got out of the Kliein buttstrap for a Buckingham Traverse last week and I cannot believe I was such an idiot for hanging in that Klein for so long (except that I tortured myself with a Navajo BOD for a few months until the webbing frayed).
> 
> Oh well. Slow learner. Jester - Tree Machine and Clearance are giving you good advice. Take your time and invest in good stuff.
> 
> Clearance, Tree Machine, and Remington - what kind of spurs and pads do I need to get when I replace my old (1985) Klein spurs?



Cant go past the buckingham velcro wraps with metal insert. Comfy, well as comfy as spurs get anyway.

Trev


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## beowulf343 (Jul 10, 2006)

This is what I like and use-Buckingham 3 1/2" permanent gaffs with the velcro pads and a pinnacle saddle. (Obviously that is not all I use when I climb but I didn't want to confuse you with lanyards, ropes, blocks, carabiners, split tails, friction savers, etc. Start off simple!!)


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## Tree Machine (Jul 11, 2006)

I put the velcro wrap cadillac pads on my 3-1/2" spikes back in May, but I haven't used them yet. Are they really the cat's meow? All my takedowns have been climbable, except for the bottom trunk which I flop. That's my goal for August, is to put these spikes on and give 'em a test drive.


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## TheGrasshopper (Jul 16, 2006)

I have a few questions about some climb gear I have been looking at. First off, what is all of your take on the Weaver 01038 model saddle? Are Bucklite Titanium spikes worth the money? I have looked at the T Pads, the Velcros, and the Aluminum with foam pads, and don't know which would be best, advice please? Also, pros/cons on 16 strand vs 24 strand climb line, and where can I get a proper fitting thimble for the diameter of the 24 strand climb line? I assume that you don't use a 1/2" thimble with it. Also, is it really worth it to splice 24 strand climb line for your snap? or is a bowline more practical? Thanks for your suggestions. Oh one more question, I have been looking at a 15' 2 in 1 lanyard, is there something else that would be preferable for climbing the trees out here in the black hills? Thanks


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## beowulf343 (Jul 16, 2006)

TheGrasshopper said:


> I have a few questions about some climb gear I have been looking at. First off, what is all of your take on the Weaver 01038 model saddle? Are Bucklite Titanium spikes worth the money? I have looked at the T Pads, the Velcros, and the Aluminum with foam pads, and don't know which would be best, advice please? Also, pros/cons on 16 strand vs 24 strand climb line, and where can I get a proper fitting thimble for the diameter of the 24 strand climb line? I assume that you don't use a 1/2" thimble with it. Also, is it really worth it to splice 24 strand climb line for your snap? or is a bowline more practical? Thanks for your suggestions. Oh one more question, I have been looking at a 15' 2 in 1 lanyard, is there something else that would be preferable for climbing the trees out here in the black hills? Thanks


Just my opinion: Hate it, no, velcro, and I like 16 strand-just my preference. Can't help you with the rest because I don't use 24 strand and I don't know what makes the trees in the black hills different from trees everywhere else.


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## climber1423 (Jul 18, 2006)

Jester how far away from halls are you? Im up there in Sandy Lake every week end usually. We have a cabin on the lake and climb rec. all the time! PM me maybe we can hook up and teach ya the ropes!

Dan


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## Tree Machine (Jul 20, 2006)

Solid info on the 24-strand, 11 mm lifeline has been gone over in a recent thread you will find _here_. You're welcome to rekindle former threads after you read them if you still have a question that wasn't covered, like spliced eye terminations or something.


Spikes, really ask yourself how frequently you think you will use them. Any solid climber can trim or dismantle a tree's crown without spikes, and do it as fast or faster than if he were wearing them. Really big tree takedowns, mebbe a different story. But supposing you did all your tree trimming spikeless, and because you fully want to grasp the art of climbing and truly challenge yourself so you crown out your takedowns spikeless, then the only time you will need spikes is in blocking down a trunk. Spike up, chunk your way down. The amount of time you spend in spikes really ends up being minimal. I prefer to drop the log and buck it up on the ground whenever it would speed things up.

For me, I have the most basic, inexpensive set of regular 'ol 3-1/2" steel spikes. If I'm only in em ten or twelve or so hours a year, it hardly matters to me that they're common grade. If big takedowns comprised the bulk of my jobs and there was no bucket or manlift, then I would choose the comfiest, lightest most awesome set that money could buy. I mean, when your living rides on them......?


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## Tree Machine (Jul 20, 2006)

As far as your flipline, a common and practical length is the 8 footer. More than anything, the draw in this length is it will go around your waist exactly 2 wraps and clip to your D, keeping it up, out of the way, ideally more around your lower waist, above your hip bones, up out of the way of your saddle's attached gear (slings, biners, ascenders, whatever other hardware). At 15 feet, I personally don't know how that length would behave when you're wearing it, though not using it. And I've never used one For me, I know 15 feet would be gross excess. There's not much, other than fat trunks, that an 8 foot won't go around. You can temporarily attach a rated sling to extend your flipline a few feet if you get into something way big and juicy.

If you regularly do really big climbs, like Clearance and those incredible British Columbia conifers, West coast U.S. giants or our Aussie mates and their monster eucs, then you might go 20 feet of flipline. You can always change. Packing two lengths in your arsenal, this would give you versatility and I think would be a good thing.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 20, 2006)

Hey, here's an Excellent saddle thread I dug up from last year. This is a really good one for the noobs and advanced climbers as well.


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