# Profit or Pride??



## PurdueJoe (Mar 25, 2009)

How many of you guys sub climbing work out? I'm a small company and its usually myself doing ALL the aerial work and a ground guy maybe another hand if the job is really big or requires extra amounts of traffic control. Currently when I have a job that I know I can get done faster and safer with a contract climber I make the call. I know this will get a couple replies from the school of thought that if you never take the hard, nasty jobs you'll never get any better and I understand that. However, I would rather spend a little extra money and get the job done quickly and be profitable that day then take on something that I know could be done faster if someone else did the climbing . I guess the way I look at it is, If I wanted too I could remove a 48" stone cold dead nasty tree hauling around 660 the whole time and pound my chest at the end of the day with alot of pride but having a bunch of pride won't pay the bills only being profitable on a regular basis does that.


----------



## Rickytree (Mar 25, 2009)

PurdueJoe said:


> How many of you guys sub climbing work out? I'm a small company and its usually myself doing ALL the aerial work and a ground guy maybe another hand if the job is really big or requires extra amounts of traffic control. Currently when I have a job that I know I can get done faster and safer with a contract climber I make the call. I know this will get a couple replies from the school of thought that if you never take the hard, nasty jobs you'll never get any better and I understand that. However, I would rather spend a little extra money and get the job done quickly and be profitable that day then take on something that I know could be done faster if someone else did the climbing . I guess the way I look at it is, If I wanted too I could remove a 48" stone cold dead nasty tree hauling around 660 the whole time and pound my chest at the end of the day with alot of pride but having a bunch of pride won't pay the bills only being profitable on a regular basis does that.



Somebody's got to be the hero! Kidding! What ever you are comfortable with I guess. There's no shame in that. But the climber's life shouldn't be a price to pay, even if the guy is crazy/brave enough for the challenge. The guy with the most experience should be sensible enough to say No.. But I've had people try to tell me ways to do things and said No cuz I didn't feel comfortable doing that. Moral is Trust your Instincts


----------



## Rickytree (Mar 25, 2009)

Rickytree said:


> Somebody's got to be the hero! Kidding! What ever you are comfortable with I guess. There's no shame in that. But the climber's life shouldn't be a price to pay, even if the guy is crazy/brave enough for the challenge. The guy with the most experience should be sensible enough to say No.. But I've had people try to tell me ways to do things and said No cuz I didn't feel comfortable doing that. Moral is Trust your Instincts



Hey well said and spoken like a true gentleman! :agree2:


----------



## tree md (Mar 26, 2009)

I do just about all my own climbing. However, I am thinking about contracting a climber later on this year when business picks up just to learn some new techniques. I have ran my own show for several years now (over 10) and when you work for yourself and are the only experienced climber you can become a little stagnant in your technique if you don't educate yourself. I read about a lot of newer equipment and techniques on here and have upgrade a few times over the years but it is a slow learning curve when you are on your own. It takes a little longer to put new techniques into practice too because it's all about production on a lot of jobs and it's no fun paying ground help to stand around while you are learning "low and slow". 

I have also contracted climbers from this site when I was overwhelmed with storm work. I dare say that some were better than me in some regards when it comes to climbing. Although I am stronger in some aspects of the job. I have no problems contracting other climbers and no shame in learning from them.

Most climbers I know (including myself) have pretty big egos. The smart climber knows when to set that aside and learn from another.


----------



## Henry111 (May 4, 2009)

tree md said:


> I do just about all my own climbing. However, I am thinking about contracting a climber later on this year when business picks up just to learn some new techniques. I have ran my own show for several years now (over 10) and when you work for yourself and are the only experienced climber you can become a little stagnant in your technique if you don't educate yourself. I read about a lot of newer equipment and techniques on here and have upgrade a few times over the years but it is a slow learning curve when you are on your own. It takes a little longer to put new techniques into practice too because it's all about production on a lot of jobs and it's no fun paying ground help to stand around while you are learning "low and slow".
> 
> I have also contracted climbers from this site when I was overwhelmed with storm work. I dare say that some were better than me in some regards when it comes to climbing. Although I am stronger in some aspects of the job. I have no problems contracting other climbers and no shame in learning from them.
> 
> Most climbers I know (including myself) have pretty big egos. The smart climber knows when to set that aside and learn from another.



Well said. I would love to have a climber to take some strain off of me, and to share experiance with. Just can't afford it, If you can go for it. I use to have a good climber, with my help he became a great climber, He left so now I climb them all. It was nice while it lasted.


----------



## windthrown (May 4, 2009)

I sub all my climbing out. Bad back. Pride? Who cares. If I am subbing out the job, I am making a profit.


----------



## soutz (Oct 13, 2009)

Yeah big jobs, big take downs, i use a great couple of contract climbers. Its hard to control the entire site if your at 60 foot plus. Your running a business and that means making the best choices for your wallet not your pride and ego.... man its taken me 13 years in business to relize this very simple fact . Also many people depend on me for employment gaining work etc, Im no good to anyone especially my family if I get hurt while Im thinking about all the other biz stuff. So I climb the ones I want as an antedote to aging. The rest I employ good people to get the jobs done.

Its the transition stage which I believe is the most dangerous. when you make the decision in your head that this is what you do, and you better have a damn good plan for when the body stops cashing the cheques your head writes.:monkey:


----------



## Toddppm (Oct 13, 2009)

My guys do almost all of the work, I've mostly taken myself out of the job picture. If you want to really start making money you need to work more ON the business instead of In it all the time.

This year I have cut back on total guys and have been working more though and have subbed some tree work out. 

I can do anything I ask these guys to do but I'm slow compared to most of them and not embarassed to admit it! I've never been the best or fastest but I can do the job and they know I won't ask them to do anything I wouldn't do.

I worked with guys that are nuts and will climb anything and are fast as can be , good for them. I take my time.


----------



## mckeetree (Oct 13, 2009)

Rickytree said:


> Hey well said and spoken like a true gentleman! :agree2:



What are you doing now Rickatree? Quoting yourself?


----------



## treemandan (Oct 14, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> What are you doing now Rickatree? Quoting yourself?



well said, I agree.


----------



## southsoundtree (Oct 23, 2009)

PurdueJoe said:


> How many of you guys sub climbing work out? I'm a small company and its usually myself doing ALL the aerial work and a ground guy maybe another hand if the job is really big or requires extra amounts of traffic control. Currently when I have a job that I know I can get done faster and safer with a contract climber I make the call. I know this will get a couple replies from the school of thought that if you never take the hard, nasty jobs you'll never get any better and I understand that. However, I would rather spend a little extra money and get the job done quickly and be profitable that day then take on something that I know could be done faster if someone else did the climbing . I guess the way I look at it is, If I wanted too I could remove a 48" stone cold dead nasty tree hauling around 660 the whole time and pound my chest at the end of the day with alot of pride but having a bunch of pride won't pay the bills only being profitable on a regular basis does that.



sounds like you are being profitable by doing so, learning from someone more experienced, able to be on the ground to train the ground ops better, establishing a relationship with a climber, so if you can't/ don't want to climb, you won't be in a pinch. You can use your extra set of hands to help the ground crew work more effectively with less hired-climber downtime waiting on the ground to be be cleared.

Sounds like a winning combo. Evaluate this plan over time. Things change.


----------



## ForTheArborist (Oct 27, 2009)

PurdueJoe said:


> How many of you guys sub climbing work out? I'm a small company and its usually myself doing ALL the aerial work and a ground guy maybe another hand if the job is really big or requires extra amounts of traffic control. Currently when I have a job that I know I can get done faster and safer with a contract climber I make the call. I know this will get a couple replies from the school of thought that if you never take the hard, nasty jobs you'll never get any better and I understand that. However, I would rather spend a little extra money and get the job done quickly and be profitable that day then take on something that I know could be done faster if someone else did the climbing . I guess the way I look at it is, If I wanted too I could remove a 48" stone cold dead nasty tree hauling around 660 the whole time and pound my chest at the end of the day with alot of pride but having a bunch of pride won't pay the bills only being profitable on a regular basis does that.



If your contract schedule is full, turn the job over quickly. If it can use some more appointments, take the extra time, and make the extra money. 

The way I figure it is say you have 10 jobs lined up, and you want to do those by yourself because you think you can make more money that way. 

That is fine if you don't have any more customers hiring you until the month is done, and you are nearly finished with your 10 jobs. If you do have customers hiring before the end of that month, then you're going to want to tell them you can do the work soon, or they will hire someone else. 

So now "John's Golden Tree Biz" is going to have 20 customers that month, and it's reasonable to believe there could have 20 more the next month. This is when you hire up crew hands just so you can turn those jobs over as fast as possible. 

Yeah, you put the money into your pay roll, but the cut that goes to you and your company plan for the month overall is bigger simply because you are taking more small cuts from each job which totals more over all than the fewer big cuts from the each job that month because you didn't hire out. 

Does this even apply to your current situation?


----------



## Ekka (Nov 2, 2009)

There's a very old saying ... goes like this:-
*
Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity.​*
Along with the smaller cut comes higher costs, more gear damaged, more mistakes, more accidents, more let downs when worker says "sorry boss, had a blinder last night cant make it" ... at 10am on the phone the day of the 7am crane job.

If any business could take the same profit with half the volume of "work" they would, with proviso that people aren't burned out or sent home with half a days work.

Also to consider is when the jobs aren't lined up 20 deep and you might have to let staff "go" there will be serious motivational impact, morale sinks as people see their mates off.

It is wiser in my experience to book further ahead, increase your pricing to increase your profit and shorten the waiting list as the acceptance rate of your bids drop, then chuck in a bonus or two for your clients and workers.


----------

