# oh boy, someone buy this kid a hard hat and an axe



## forestryworks (Feb 3, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF74qL_OE0M&feature=related


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## Industry (Feb 3, 2008)

Maybe some chaps?


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## Adkpk (Feb 3, 2008)

He got it down but wow, I see what you mean. Dangerous.


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## gremlin (Feb 3, 2008)

Wow!!!!


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## palogger (Feb 3, 2008)

actually if u wach one of the other videos i think he is wearing cutting pants but still no hardhat, dumb*ss


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## Festus Haggen (Feb 3, 2008)

:monkey: The sleeves cut off the t-shirt make the tree too scared to fall on him.


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## 2dogs (Feb 3, 2008)

The lack of head protection is a given but I don't like wearing chaps all the time. If the escape route is not completely clean I would rather not wear anything that could snag. I could not tell the size of the axe he was using but I often use a 3 1/2 lb head on a 20" helve. It looks like a hatchet but drives wedges very well.


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## Zackman1801 (Feb 3, 2008)

yes but if you clear your escape route nothing will snag either!


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## JackD_ME (Feb 4, 2008)

What I don't understand is why is he wasting two to three feet of butt log? I watched four of his videos and they all had high stumps, although is appears he is felling dead trees! Is this a west coast thing?


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## Burvol (Feb 4, 2008)

JackD_ME said:


> What I don't understand is why is he wasting two to three feet of butt log? I watched four of his videos and they all had high stumps, although is appears he is felling dead trees! Is this a west coast thing?



It's called he's a high-stumper retrard.


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## ShoerFast (Feb 4, 2008)

Who here could really throw the first rock?

Gotta admit the kid has a good start!


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## 056 kid (Feb 4, 2008)

F the stump on a dead tree. He is getting good practic.


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## forestryworks (Feb 4, 2008)

*some kind of hydraulic jack*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVdK9LaOlfU

in this video you can see the same guy 
using some kind of hydraulic jack
like one of those 20ton bottle jacks you use in house leveling and such

i guess you could use one on trees?


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## Zackman1801 (Feb 4, 2008)

his cut was soo high, how did he even get his saw up there to cut it? seems like it would be more economical and safer just to cut the thing down low where he should have cut it.


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## Burvol (Feb 4, 2008)

forestryworks said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVdK9LaOlfU
> 
> in this video you can see the same guy
> using some kind of hydraulic jack
> ...



Jacking or pounding wedges on snags in that sort of condition is not safe at all. He needs to learn the hard way I guess. A deep undercut on a snag in the direction it is leaning is the safest way.


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## forestryworks (Feb 5, 2008)

Burvol said:


> Jacking or pounding wedges on snags in that sort of condition is not safe at all. He needs to learn the hard way I guess. A deep undercut on a snag in the direction it is leaning is the safest way.




i didn't mean to come across as one who wedges and jacks snags over
fall 'em where they lean

i had one lady wanted me to drop her pine snag
and i told her, "well i can do it. but the only way i'll do it
is if i can fall it where it leans."

it leaned right toward her barbed-wire fence

she said no

 

it would've been an easy fix on the fence

the snag is still standing today, much too close to her driveway


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## spencerhenry (Feb 5, 2008)

i am a professional cutter. i make a good portion of my living as a faller. i never wear a hard had, and very rarely ever wear chaps. i have also very rarely seen other professional cutters using this safety gear. i cut around 5000 to 8000 trees per year.


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## hammerlogging (Feb 5, 2008)

like, I don't wear seat belts cause even though they'll save me from the unexpected, well, did you hear that they'll bruise you. can't have that. Come on dude.


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## Burvol (Feb 5, 2008)

There are some snags that can be jacked on, like ones that do not emite "bug dust" like the one that guy had the bottle jack in. I was just implying that it is not good. If I have one sitting back I face it, then drive it out with another stick, hence one of the important reasons to bring your whole strip up uniformly, from the bottom up.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 5, 2008)

spencerhenry said:


> i am a professional cutter. i make a good portion of my living as a faller. i never wear a hard had, and very rarely ever wear chaps. i have also very rarely seen other professional cutters using this safety gear. i cut around 5000 to 8000 trees per year.



What kind of OSHA regulations do they have in Colorado? Out here in Oregon/Washington/California, it's an automatic $500-$2500 fine for a forest worker to be on a logging site without a hardhat. Both the worker and the company can be slapped down with fines. Not only that, but it's damn foolish. In 17 years of professional cutting I can't count how many times a hardhat has saved me from serious injury, and I have two deeply dented tin hats and one cracked full-brim Bullard plastic hat to prove it.



Zackman1801 said:


> his cut was soo high, how did he even get his saw up there to cut it? seems like it would be more economical and safer just to cut the thing down low where he should have cut it.



Perhaps there was something going on in the stump that you can't see? Carpenter ants? Termites? Big frost crack? Dry rot? 
It's much safer to cut a high stump when felling snags anyways because 1.- You're standing up which makes escaping the stump faster and 2.- You reduce your exposure. (Where he cut it was a little too high for my taste, but it's easy for us to watch the video and be critics.)



Burvol said:


> Jacking or pounding wedges on snags in that sort of condition is not safe at all. He needs to learn the hard way I guess. A deep undercut on a snag in the direction it is leaning is the safest way.



I agree, but as you should be well aware, sometimes Fir snags have a way in the Northwest of becoming "weather hardened", which makes wedging or jacking feasible.


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## Jacob J. (Feb 5, 2008)

One thing I'll say also about wedging, especially in a hazard tree. You don't just grab your axe and start wailing on wedges. You give one a tap, wait a second, give it another tap or two, wait a second, and so on. 1.- You don't want to start the snag in a "rocking" motion or pattern, and 2.- If the top is weak this is a good way to "wedge the top out".


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## RPM (Feb 5, 2008)

spencerhenry said:


> i am a professional cutter. i make a good portion of my living as a faller. i never wear a hard had, and very rarely ever wear chaps. i have also very rarely seen other professional cutters using this safety gear. i cut around 5000 to 8000 trees per year.



Well, any 'professional' faller around here (province of British Columbia) definitely wears their safety gear - that includes hardhat, ear / eye protection, leg protection, proper felling gear - saw, wedges axe, etc......No one will hire you here if you did otherwise. I'd say it was mostly common sense that dictates that you would use your safety gear, others liability - whatever thats your choice but I'd bet (and this is my opinion) that by calling yourself a professional cutter probably offends other "professional' fallers on this site - myself included.


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## Burvol (Feb 5, 2008)

Jacob J. said:


> What kind of OSHA regulations do they have in Colorado? Out here in Oregon/Washington/California, it's an automatic $500-$2500 fine for a forest worker to be on a logging site without a hardhat. Both the worker and the company can be slapped down with fines. Not only that, but it's damn foolish. In 17 years of professional cutting I can't count how many times a hardhat has saved me from serious injury, and I have two deeply dented tin hats and one cracked full-brim Bullard plastic hat to prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, there are certain degrees of danger associated with snags, as you mentioned. I have cut some hoot fir snags (3 to 6 plus DBH) that are weathered to the point where the wood is almost glass hard and purple in color. Another thing to consider is if the tree died from the top down or the bottom up. A lot of snags are really dangerous to cut that are hard on the bottom and "loose" up top. I was just assuming that the fellow in the video was unaware of all of the things guys like us (fallers) are aware of.


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## spencerhenry (Feb 5, 2008)

if you are offended by how i cut, or by the fact that i am a professional cutter, then you are far too worried about things that dont affect you. i dont care what osha says. i have never seen osha around here, nor do i expect i will. some people that run saws shouldnt be allowed to have a pair of pointed scissors. some people can work for 30 years with no safety gear and never have a problem. there are people in the world that are so oblivious to their surroundings that its amazing that they lived past the age of 12. i framed houses for 21 years, only 1 small nick. running nail guns, skilsaws, beamsaws, chainsaws, everyday. 
if my post is really that offensive to you as a "professional cutter", it makes me wonder what it is really like out there. its like bible thumpers, if its what you believe then fine, but dont try to tell me what to think.:angry2:


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## Burvol (Feb 5, 2008)

I have no clue if you are the guy in the video or not, but have some F'ing respect. My biological father and a dear friend lost their lives cutting timber, and they were damn good at their jobs. Stuff happens, so I would suggest losing your pompas :censored: "know it all attitude" and humble yourself a little bit. Guys that cut and hump brush and terrain of hard nature get nicked and hurt from time to time. I would not want you 200 tree lengths from my strip.


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## hammerlogging (Feb 5, 2008)

you may be a faller, just not a professional.


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## 2dogs (Feb 7, 2008)

Looks like maybe the snag was limb locked. I don't blame the guy for using a bottle jack. Silvey jacks are super expensive! Nice touch with the binder strap though I prefer chain.


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## 2dogs (Feb 7, 2008)

Burvol said:


> Jacking or pounding wedges on snags in that sort of condition is not safe at all. He needs to learn the hard way I guess. A deep undercut on a snag in the direction it is leaning is the safest way.



Jacking or wedging is done to increase safety. The tree needs to be on the ground not left standing. I use a jack when I have access to one so I don't knock out dead limbs or break the top out. Or I use a throw bag and a rope. A dozer and wire rope is even better but not always around. 

My friends jack uses one or two rams and has about 40' of hose. I bid on a Silvey last week on ebay but didn't win. This same friend has a Big Shot slingshot. That thing is great for getting a line way up in a tree. I need one! That and a longer bull rope.


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## techdave (Feb 8, 2008)

*spence, no one here really cares how you cut...*

if you are not wise and mature enough to listen to their common sense advice.

The part they were upset with is someone who comes in here and represents unsafe work practices calling themself "Professional".

You may be in the literal sense of thats how you earn your money, but in the sense of "Pro" like the best or highest level of competence you are DQed by your silly refusal to wear PPE, and your stupid attempts to justify it.

Read more of the posts here and you will see that all the best people here wear safety gear.

ALL of the Canadian and PNW company employees use it. So do the euros and the arbos. So do all of us smart indies. Granted some of the use is due to insurance and workers comp, but the reason the insurance and WC folks push it is cause it prevents or minimizes claims/damages. It dont do anything to a man in good shape but keep him safe. Other than purchase price there is NO downside.

But I know you aint gonna buy that. this post is as much to make sure the casual reader can see WHY almost all of the rest of us think you are a fool in THIS matter.


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## 056 kid (Feb 12, 2008)

CO man you are a m*th#er [email protected]&in retard. I am 20 with 4 years in the woods and the brain bucket has saved me more than a few times. Any "pro" without a dome piece would get laughed at and teased and told exactly what i just said to you. 

Just wait till an 80 lb piece of wood that has been lodged for a fue days(no where near where you are currently cutting) subsides to gravity and cracks you in the head. You will be HURTIN, I will be getting new suspension maby a whole new bucket without a scratch. Real talk


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## GASoline71 (Feb 13, 2008)

Jacob J. said:


> 1.- You don't want to start the snag in a "rocking" motion or pattern, and 2.- If the top is weak this is a good way to "wedge the top out".



Been there done that Jacob...  

Got the "scar" on my hard hat to prove it... Needless to say, I needed a new hard hat after that one hit me... Not to mention a lesson learned when I was a rookie...

Gary


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## Gologit (Feb 13, 2008)

spencerhenry said:


> if you are offended by how i cut, or by the fact that i am a professional cutter, then you are far too worried about things that dont affect you. i dont care what osha says. i have never seen osha around here, nor do i expect i will. some people that run saws shouldnt be allowed to have a pair of pointed scissors. some people can work for 30 years with no safety gear and never have a problem. there are people in the world that are so oblivious to their surroundings that its amazing that they lived past the age of 12. i framed houses for 21 years, only 1 small nick. running nail guns, skilsaws, beamsaws, chainsaws, everyday.
> if my post is really that offensive to you as a "professional cutter", it makes me wonder what it is really like out there. its like bible thumpers, if its what you believe then fine, but dont try to tell me what to think.:angry2:



Hey, no problem. It's your decision and your head. 
One thing, though. If you have newbie kids on your crew do you let them run around with no hardhat or any other PPE? Those kids take their cues from you and if you're the example they follow you owe them some consideration. 
Just because you don't care about your own safety doesn't mean you shouldn't care about theirs.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if you want to be a danger to yourself that's entirely up to you. But don't put other people at risk because you're too damn stubborn to use good sense.
You don't sound like a stupid man but you're sure making stupid decisions.
One other thing...if somebody showed up in the woods where I work and stated that they didn't wear a hard hat and wouldn't wear one, I'd mark them off as a greenhorn or an idiot and send them back down the hill. Fast.


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## FSburt (Feb 14, 2008)

*Interesting videos*

As far as the high stumps I would guess he learned that from the govt as that technique is pushed as a safer way of dealing with snags as far as quicker escape is concerned and keeping the head in a straight line with the neck which will take a blow better than if the head was cocked to the side and would break easier if hit. No PPE not the smartest for wearing at least a hard hat when most of the fallers that have been killed have been hit from falling objects. "Its not what you know that will get you killed its what you don't know" D Douglas Dent. I have heard that quote in every session I have been through with him and it reminds me of the responsibility I have accepted in teaching someones child how to fall trees and operate a chainsaw. For me a professional faller is someone who not only can fall trees but takes the personal step in doing everything he can to protect himself by using falling techniques and PPE to walk out of the woods and return home and wake up and do it again the next day. Some of the tree falling videos I have seen on You Tube are downright scary. But some of the knives out there are not the sharpest in the drawer. Just my rambling.


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## slowp (Feb 14, 2008)

Stump height shouldn't matter when dealing with a cull (tree that is). But, after you have the tree on the ground, better cut the stump down so it won't snag equipment or logs, or get the sale administrator on your case.  Stumps are also left high for road clearing. More wood to grab hold of or push against to pull the stump out. And, one last instance. If the timber markers have put their stump mark on too high, better cut the tree above that mark...refer to the sale administrator again.


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## snowyman (Mar 1, 2008)

forestryworks said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVdK9LaOlfU
> 
> in this video you can see the same guy
> using some kind of hydraulic jack
> ...



I think he's using a Block driver, a guy in the UK invented them.


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## 2dogs (Mar 1, 2008)

A what?


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## snowyman (Mar 2, 2008)

2dogs said:


> A what?



I might be wrong, have a look anyway, there's a movie on here.http://www.treeworker.co.uk/acatalog/Arborist_Tools.html

I was wrong, I didn't see the jack fall, sorry. Don't


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## ELITER (Mar 5, 2008)

spencerhenry said:


> i am a professional cutter. i make a good portion of my living as a faller. i never wear a hard had, and very rarely ever wear chaps. i have also very rarely seen other professional cutters using this safety gear. i cut around 5000 to 8000 trees per year.



Christmas trees don't count spencer.... sorry but it's not considered "falling" but you did say you are a cutter...


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