# Engine choices for a bandsaw



## Lerock (May 2, 2017)

good morning all. Newbie sawyer wannabe here. Looking into purchasing an entry level bandsaw. Have been reading in forums like this for info. Also watching lots of utube videos. And am drowning in manufacturers literature. Not looking to make money from this. I'm a couple of years away from retirement, and hoping for a hobby to make a bit of lumber. Have been trying to manage about 70 acres of mixed wood lot. I have seen a timberking 1220 demo, very impressed!
Also hope to work with a friend on her Norwood 29 sawmill. 
So I guess my concerns are which brands are the most reliable and user friendly.
Should I consider one mounted on a trailer for portability or save on the cost and just build a shed? And what about engine choices, I like the idea of electric, are thes engines as powerful as the combustion engines they would replace? And are they reliable? Would an electric motor be easier to maintain? Love this forum, lots of smart folks sharing their experiences.
Any ideas you may provide would be welcome! Thanks. Lerock


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## free_rider_151 (May 2, 2017)

I just got a Norwood hd36. I'm almost done assembling it. I got the trailer package aswell as two 8' extensions. Once I start cutting with it, I'll let you know my opinion if ya want

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## Lerock (May 2, 2017)

free_rider_151 said:


> I just got a Norwood hd36. I'm almost done assembling it. I got the trailer package aswell as two 8' extensions. Once I start cutting with it, I'll let you know my opinion if ya want
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


thanks free-rider. I would appreciate your opinions. Best to get it from the horses mouth so to speak!


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## rarefish383 (May 3, 2017)

I saw a small Woodmizer at a timber and log home show, with electric power. It was slick. I think any machine can be fitted with an electric motor that will match or exceed a gas engine. If you are going to put it in a shed, I would seriously consider electric. If it's on a trailer, gas. Another thing about electric is you don't have to worry about the rotten fuel we're stuck with. A friend has a big Norwood. When he first got it he used it all the time. Once he got stores of wood up he used it less often. I had some Black Walnut crotch wood I wanted him to mill for me. He hadn't used the mill in about a year and couldn't get it started. Pulled the carb and the fuel bowl was a mass of stinking yellow jelly. Rebuilt the card and still couldn't get it to run right. I finally milled it with my CSM, Joe.


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## ChoppyChoppy (May 3, 2017)

Diesel or electric, but not many folks have 3 phase.


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## Lerock (May 3, 2017)

rarefish383 said:


> I saw a small Woodmizer at a timber and log home show, with electric power. It was slick. I think any machine can be fitted with an electric motor that will match or exceed a gas engine. If you are going to put it in a shed, I would seriously consider electric. If it's on a trailer, gas. Another thing about electric is you don't have to worry about the rotten fuel we're stuck with. A friend has a big Norwood. When he first got it he used it all the time. Once he got stores of wood up he used it less often. I had some Black Walnut crotch wood I wanted him to mill for me. He hadn't used the mill in about a year and couldn't get it started. Pulled the carb and the fuel bowl was a mass of stinking yellow jelly. Rebuilt the card and still couldn't get it to run right. I finally milled it with my CSM, Joe.


Thanks Joe. Yeah the ethanol they add into the gas is nasty for sure. Good point in regards to maybe going electric!


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## Lerock (May 3, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Diesel or electric, but not many folks have 3 phase.





ValleyFirewood said:


> Diesel or electric, but not many folks have 3 phase.


right. Not quite sure what the difference is in 1 phase and 3 phase. I know most manufacturers offer a choice. Can you help me out a bit here??


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## Franny K (May 3, 2017)

For sawmill purposes 10 up motors is as big as single phase goes. It might be possible to use two. Single phase needs capacitors to start.


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## ChoppyChoppy (May 4, 2017)

Lerock said:


> right. Not quite sure what the difference is in 1 phase and 3 phase. I know most manufacturers offer a choice. Can you help me out a bit here??



Limited on motor size.

I'm not sure how motor hp to engine hp converts, but in the area of 50-75hp diesel is a decent sized mill.


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## Lerock (May 4, 2017)

Franny K said:


> For sawmill purposes 10 up motors is as big as single phase goes. It might be possible to use two. Single phase needs capacitors to start.


I am looking towards the timberking 1220 and the wood mixer lt 15. Both offer an electric motor with around 10 hp. So I assume this is roughly equal to the gas engines of 18 to 25 they offer? What's involved in the wiring for a single phase engine, I wonder?


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## anlrolfe (May 4, 2017)

A 5Hp 1-phase motor is going to pull about 28amps @ 230Volt while running, a little less if it's high efficiency. 
Most electric motors will surge 4-6x more current at start-up while pulling up the load, so this in this example that could be 120-180amps. 
That'll make your lights dim down and sensitive electronics go blue screen. A 10Hp would surge to 200-300amps for a split second. Way to piss off the neighbors.

Here's a link to NEC(National Electric Code) current tables
http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/nec/nec2011_table430.248.html

Unless you've got a commercial or industrial electrical service or your own GenSet you're stuck with 1-phase.
1-phase motors are physically larger, more expensive, less reliable and less efficient than comparable 3-phase motors.

Go with Diesel...

Does anyone make a mill that runs off of a tractor PTO?


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## abbott295 (May 4, 2017)

How about off the belt pulley. They don't even put those on tractors anymore. My great-uncle used to have a sawmill ( Belsaw, I'm told ) that ran by means of a flat belt from a stationary engine that was the size of a Farmall H. ( I'm also told that. ) I have some memories of being around it, helping stack lumber on a hayrack or in the back of my dad's 1951 F-100 to take home, stacking and stickering it. I think some of that lumber may still be in the old chicken house yet. There may be a piece of black walnut my dad wanted for a mantlepiece. He has never had a fireplace.


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## abbott295 (May 4, 2017)

Oh, sorry. You are talking about a band saw. That was a circle saw.


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## free_rider_151 (May 4, 2017)

For a small circle saw, gas/diesel or electric works great. My mill is able to be driven via flatbelt or pto. It's an American Hercules model. 
For a bandsaw, gas is your best bet. Running the wires needed to feed a 10hp motor is just a waste of money. I would go with 20 hp gas. 

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## Lerock (May 4, 2017)

Good advice from all, thanks. Hadn't realized electric would be a hassle or extra expense. So how about pros and cons of diesel vs gas?
Also, I like the idea of being able to trailer the mill to the logs instead of vice versa. But, as it is a manual mill would the height of the trailer add to the manual labor involved in turning the logs? It would seem to me that one would have more leverage if the mill is near ground level. Appreciate your thoughts here, thanks


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## ChoppyChoppy (May 4, 2017)

An LT15 isn't going to use a diesel. It's too small of a mill and it won't handle the weight. We run an LT40 Super, it's as small as I'd consider for a mill.


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## Sawyer Rob (May 4, 2017)

I've owned a smaller BSN since 1996 a gas motor is fine, you just either have to find E0 gas or treat the gas you use with an additive. I use E0 in mine... Even a 13hp gas motor will mill the biggest logs, it just saws slower than more hp...

I now have a Norwood Lumbermate 2000, I bought it in 2003 and it's milled thousands and thousands of bd. ft. with no problems at all, it's been a VERY good mill. It's powered with a Vanguard 23hp motor and has pretty good power, even in big logs.

I've milled on many of the different manual mills, there's lots to choose from, but I haven't found one I like better than the one that I now have...

BTW, they have sold LT15's with diesel motors.... BUT, I'd take my Lumbermate over an LT15 EVERY time!

SR


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## muddstopper (May 5, 2017)

Rob, interesting you mentione d the 13hp motor. I have located a 13hp honda generator otor I am think of getting to start my band saw build. Most of the lumber I would saw would be white pine, some pretty big trees, 36in dia, but ost would be smaller. How well do you think the 13hp would do in green whitepines. Mostly sawing 1 in boards


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## Sawyer Rob (May 5, 2017)

My first mill had a 13hp Honda, it would saw big pine just fine, just slow compared to the mill I have now with the 23hp.

I milled a lot of big logs with it, including big oaks... I was younger then (read dumber) and thought sawing big logs was "cool"...






Keep in mind, normally generator motors have a tapered shaft, so it's harder to set them up for a pulley.

SR


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## muddstopper (May 5, 2017)

I dont think I would go around looking for big trees to mill, just to much work loading them and rolling around to the mill. I do have a few pretty big trees right where I plan to build my house. 
I know about the tapershaft on some engines, but its not really the problems some folks think it is. You can buy a tapered adapter sleeve for as little as $10 on ebay, and if you have a lathe, You can make one pretty quick,


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## Franny K (May 18, 2017)

Lerock said:


> I am looking towards the timberking 1220 and the wood mixer lt 15. Both offer an electric motor with around 10 hp. So I assume this is roughly equal to the gas engines of 18 to 25 they offer? What's involved in the wiring for a single phase engine, I wonder?


10 horsepower is 10 horsepower as far as I am concerned. The gasoline engine will have a governor I would expect and there is a lag as the governor does it's thing compared to an electric one that has the electric grid to call on at the speed of light. I think this is where the idea the numbers do not exactly yield the same results in the real word. Maybe as you overload an electric it draws more amps that the plate on the motor says while the gas one is out of it's rated peak power spot. A 25kw tractor pto generator claims it will start a 10 hp motor and it does almost always if it doesn't do not try for very long or the capacitors (start capacitors there are rum ones as well) will make a puff of smoke. It does not seem to trip a 40 or 50 amp breaker when connected to the grid. On mine they have soldered a little resistor across the capacitor terminals that shortens the space for the clips to attach and think that has caused me some aggravation. I have the Cooks one, It comes with switch gear that I think is 40 amps it appears to be for three phase but not all the terminals are used. I think It is 40 amp but not sure without going out to verify. The pto generator I use the 50 amp plug with breaker and it only is rated at 100 amps but to use that steady you need connect to another spot. I have tripped the switch gear breaker engaging the engine too fast (it starts no load) not the one on the generator. Mine uses a 3600 rpm motor and I suspect the other manufacturers do as well but it is possible to get a somewhat heavier motor that has more torque but half the rpm.


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## J & L Creations (Jun 20, 2017)

Just checking to see if you have made a decision on any purchase as of yet? My thinking on the matter is to consider the weight, length and diameter of the logs you want to cut and then think of how you are going to load the saw, 5 men, 10 men and a boy, have a forklift, or just you yourself loading logs at your and my age? This in itself will more less dictate what your needs are and what type and size saw you will need. You more than likely have thought of all of this, so I'm just reiterating here. I am building my second sawmill now from the ground up and have a forklift to load logs with. I bought an 18 HP engine which will do the job nicely. The gasoline problem can easily be solved by not letting the gas go bad or leaving it in the tank to long, running the engine until it dies and all the gas is drained out of the carburetor, that's if you plan on not using the saw for a month. I've posted the builds on this forum, enjoy. Well hope this helps in your retirement years, Jeff.


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## rarefish383 (Jun 20, 2017)

Rob, what would be the new version closest to yours? Joe.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jun 20, 2017)

LM36... Although it is a bit bigger than mine...

Even a small guy can load logs by him self, IF you parbuckle them on... My mill has that option even though I have a tractor for that job. It's just slow, but it DOES get the job done.

The same set up is used to turn logs,







It's also slow, but it IS a big time back saver...

SR


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## rarefish383 (Jun 20, 2017)

Morning Rob, thanks. I still have to call my buddy and see which Norwood he has. He was talking about selling it and getting a bigger one. Then changed his mind, then let it sit for several years, now he can't get it started. On my 4th cup of coffee. Gotta get over to the farm. We have 32 fence posts to put in. Hard drilling through all the shale on a steep hill. Might have to do it by hand, Joe.


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## J & L Creations (Jun 20, 2017)

rarefish383 said:


> Morning Rob, thanks. I still have to call my buddy and see which Norwood he has. He was talking about selling it and getting a bigger one. Then changed his mind, then let it sit for several years, now he can't get it started. On my 4th cup of coffee. Gotta get over to the farm. We have 32 fence posts to put in. Hard drilling through all the shale on a steep hill. Might have to do it by hand, Joe.


Been there done that, no fun even with a drill attachment to a tractor. I once had 62 steel pipe post to put in the ground, saddle grind for a top rail pipe then weld them all together.


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## hseII (Jun 20, 2017)

Lerock said:


> good morning all. Newbie sawyer wannabe here. Looking into purchasing an entry level bandsaw. Have been reading in forums like this for info. Also watching lots of utube videos. And am drowning in manufacturers literature. Not looking to make money from this. I'm a couple of years away from retirement, and hoping for a hobby to make a bit of lumber. Have been trying to manage about 70 acres of mixed wood lot. I have seen a timberking 1220 demo, very impressed!
> Also hope to work with a friend on her Norwood 29 sawmill.
> So I guess my concerns are which brands are the most reliable and user friendly.
> Should I consider one mounted on a trailer for portability or save on the cost and just build a shed? And what about engine choices, I like the idea of electric, are thes engines as powerful as the combustion engines they would replace? And are they reliable? Would an electric motor be easier to maintain? Love this forum, lots of smart folks sharing their experiences.
> Any ideas you may provide would be welcome! Thanks. Lerock



Find a Used WoodMizer LT40 Hydraulic. You can set it up & use the loaf loader.










I wouldn't want to give up this WM to run any of the Norwoods I've seen.

As far as Gasoline Powered or Electric, if you are setting it up permanently, I'd look into the Electric.

You can use a Phase converter to power the need 3 Phase drive if you have enough single phase. 

I would think a 300 amp service would be a gracious plenty for everything a shop or house for you would use, & still have enough room for the Phase converter to run the mill.


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## hseII (Jun 20, 2017)

J & L Creations said:


> Been there done that, no fun even with a drill attachment to a tractor. I once had 62 steel pipe post to put in the ground, saddle grind for a top rail pipe then weld them all together.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/221620429374 

This makes it better.


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## J & L Creations (Jun 20, 2017)

hseII said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/221620429374
> 
> This makes it better.


If I only had a skid steer and money for the attachment, that would have been awesome.


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## J & L Creations (Jun 20, 2017)

hseII said:


> Find a Used WoodMizer LT40 Hydraulic. You can set it up & use the loaf loader.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From the photos I see, you have a very nice machine, I like it, I like it allot.


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## hseII (Jun 20, 2017)

J & L Creations said:


> From the photos I see, you have a very nice machine, I like it, I like it allot.



It's an older machine: they come available from time to Time for a lot less than new.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jun 20, 2017)

> I wouldn't want to give up this WM to run any of the Norwoods I've seen.


 Yeaaa, but the REAL question is, would you want give it up to run a Woodmizer LT10 or LT15???

Of course not, no one would want to give up a "hydraulic" machine to run a manual machine... BUT, the manual machine cost half as much, or even less than half! And, the manual machine has MUCH less on it to go wrong and DOES get the job done.

SR


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## tomsteve (Jun 21, 2017)

"Should I consider one mounted on a trailer for portability or save on the cost and just build a shed? "

i suggest do both. that way you can travel to mill and when parked at home, youre in the shade milling with the added benefit of its protected from the weather


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## hseII (Jun 21, 2017)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Yeaaa, but the REAL question is, would you want give it up to run a Woodmizer LT10 or LT15???
> 
> Of course not, no one would want to give up a "hydraulic" machine to run a manual machine... BUT, the manual machine cost half as much, or even less than half! And, the manual machine has MUCH less on it to go wrong and DOES get the job done.
> 
> SR



You can buy a used HD mill for new "mills you mentioned" prices.


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## hseII (Jun 21, 2017)

tomsteve said:


> "Should I consider one mounted on a trailer for portability or save on the cost and just build a shed? "
> 
> i suggest do both. that way you can travel to mill and when parked at home, youre in the shade milling with the added benefit of its protected from the weather



Absolutely.


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## hseII (Jun 21, 2017)

LT-15
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/wat/hvo/6183909656.html

LT-28
http://gainesville.craigslist.org/for/6170410148.html


LT40
http://shreveport.craigslist.org/grd/6178043011.html
Offer them $9,000


I wish I had the $ for this: LT-70 Electric
http://jackson.craigslist.org/hvo/6185210314.html


Bingo
Wood-Mizer Sawmill LT-30-HD Electric 26' length
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/6174962749.html


LT 40 Wood Mizer Saw Mill
http://asheville.craigslist.org/grd/6125004863.html


2000 Wood-Mizer LT40 portable sawmill
http://asheville.craigslist.org/tls/6142988463.html

Wood-Mizer LT15 Saw Mill

http://delrio.craigslist.org/hvo/6127484571.html

There are some ideas of the Asking Prices for various used WM mills.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jun 22, 2017)

> You can buy a used HD mill for new "mills you mentioned" prices.


 TRUE! Just like you can buy a nice used manual mill for half or less than half of that...

It's really about what you want in the first place and how much you have to spend.

A friend of mine looked for quite a while and finally found a decent mizer 40 HD mill for $7500.00, not bad, BUT he had to go over it and replace some parts too. SO, he has more money into it and lucky for him, he's a pretty good mechanic so he did the work himself, as it took a while to sort it out.

Like I said, it's all about how much $$ you have to spend...

SR


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## J & L Creations (Jun 22, 2017)

Sawyer Rob said:


> TRUE! Just like you can buy a nice used manual mill for half or less than half of that...
> 
> It's really about what you want in the first place and how much you have to spend.
> 
> ...


Yes, I have to agree with that and why I built my first and now my second mill. I thoroughly enjoy building things, especially machinery. Seeing them working and preforming as designed gives me real pleasure and of course the plus of saving money at the same time. Here is a video of my first mill, we were making adjustment to the blade so as to cut straight and level, making test cuts and in no way was the saw complete or had a permanent home at this point in time.


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