# leaner, what did I do wrong??



## HuskyMike (Feb 6, 2010)

I have some Pines that got topped 2 decembers ago in an ice storm. I will not let them waste so I will process them as fire wood. Anyways....

This is what happened and you can tell me where I went wrong.

Saying that the tree is in the 12 O'clock position.

There are some power lines in the 2 O'clock position of the tree and the tree leans that way, toward the lines.
So I notched the tree in the 10 o"clock position to try to compensate for the lean and maybe it would fall at 12 O'clock.

NOPE it fell at 2 O'clock and hit the lines, no damage and power outtage but it was scary and I thought it was gonna get real expensive!!

How would i do it different to avoid that next time? should I notch different? Use wedges? how would I cut and position wedges? I have 2 more trees right near it that need to fall, they are way more straight but those lines and my house are now in play!

I will take any advice!! thanks!!!


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## clearance (Feb 6, 2010)

Did you leave more holding wood on the other side of the lean? Like a pie, with only a little on the lean side.


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## HuskyMike (Feb 6, 2010)

clearance said:


> Did you leave more holding wood on the other side of the lean? Like a pie, with only a little on the lean side.



I just cut a simple notch like you would do with a regular fall. Notch and back cut.


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## clearance (Feb 6, 2010)

HuskyMike said:


> I just cut a simple notch like you would do with a regular fall. Notch and back cut.



That could be why, didn't help. There was a thread here called tapered hinge, it was by Murphy, look for it.


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## HuskyMike (Feb 6, 2010)

clearance said:


> that could be why, didn't help. There was a thread here called tapered hinge, it was by murphy, look for it.




ok!!


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## derwoodii (Feb 6, 2010)

If suitable put a rope on the tree at least 1/2 way up, tie it off with tension to your practical site of fall, it will give you some more control as you hone your felling skills.
Estimating a trees line of fall, your method of cut for final rest is 1 part skill and 9 parts practice. You were very lucky with last power lines vs trees make empty pockets or much worst.


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## HuskyMike (Feb 6, 2010)

I saw the post on tapered hinge, get the concept but wish there was more on where the tree was NOT to go so I could see a broader picture


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## HuskyMike (Feb 6, 2010)

derwoodii said:


> If suitable put a rope on the tree at least 1/2 way up, tie it off with tension to your practical site of fall, it will give you some more control as you hone your felling skills.
> Estimating a trees line of fall, your method of cut for final rest is 1 part skill and 9 parts practice. You were very lucky with last power lines vs trees make empty pockets or much worst.



Don't know how I could have put a rope up high enough to control fall.


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## clearance (Feb 6, 2010)

Maybe look around in the logging forum, ask there, some guys there have a great wealth of knowledge. Arborists are not fallers, I am not a faller, but I can fall better than most arborists, way better. But I am only worthy of packing gas for an experienced west coast faller. Truth.


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## HuskyMike (Feb 6, 2010)

this is the logging forum!


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## tlandrum (Feb 6, 2010)

did you atleast try to wedge it? how about a soft dutchman,,, never mind. when lines are involved never cut without tying the tree off for pulling. people get killed the way you cut that tree. next time call a pro when in doubt and get there advice. i'm just glad you didnt get hurt.


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 6, 2010)

HuskyMike said:


> Don't know how I could have put a rope up high enough to control fall.



Well that's the thing. They say "LEAVE IT" about a zillion times in a felling book I have (if you can't do something for sure).

Take your time - take a week - take a month, take however long you need to get that rope up there. Rent a bucket truck. Find someone with a bucket truck. Whatever.

Get a ladder.

And then there is the old trick they use in the Navy. Use a tennis ball with string tied through a couple of holes in the ball. Then you can throw the tennis ball quite high or quite far and the string follows. Then use the string to pull a rope.

Then tie that rope around it. Tie 3 ropes around it. Whatever.

Use a come along. Or use a winch on the front of a pick-up to pull the line, etc.

Also if you know how or have a bucket truck, you can cut limbs on one side of the tree. Then this redistributes the weight to the other side of the tree so it wants to fall that way.

Basically make *sure* it will go where you want.

If you are not 100% sure it will fall where you want, then don't cut it.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 6, 2010)

Hire a pro to take the top out so you can learn without worry of damage. Once top was sufficiently low as him to show you how he would have fell it once a pull rope had been placed. Throw line is simple to make buy the cheapest rubber mallet you can find,cut hande off with a hacksaw and screw an eye into it then tie a 1/4 inch line approx 150 foot. Grab the string with left hand above your head and mallet just above the ground and take right hand and swing it back and forth to get the feel and on final pass launch that puppy to the top of the tree. Then tie a suitable rope to the throwline with a square knot and pull it to the top and back to the ground. Then use running bowline or simply tie it to the stem above cut area if your rope is long enough and you went thorough a good crotch.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 6, 2010)

I'm not a pro but when i cut a leaner especially around other structures, It always gets a winch cable put on it and the truck chained to something to keep it from moving. Then notch it and when you saw it always leave more holding wood on the side you don't want it to go. I f the tree is big enough i always will use a wedge. Even a tree 12 inches across would get a small wedge put in. Had good luck so far doing this(knock on wood). I'm sure there is a better way though and i may get told how stupid the advice i just typed is.lol But it's worked for me.


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## HuskyMike (Feb 6, 2010)

The tree was topped in a storm, all the branch whirls went with the top. Not a single branch left, just the stem, like a telephone pole. It leaned because half way up the tree, it started to grow crooked and more toward that side. How would I get a rope around something like that? The other trees that have to go are the same exact way. Thanks


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## HuskyMike (Feb 6, 2010)

Billy_Bob said:


> Well that's the thing. They say "LEAVE IT" about a zillion times in a felling book I have (if you can't do something for sure).



Which felling book is that? I would love to read it for knowledge.

I ordered "to fell a tree" after my little mistake, plus I don't read enough books!


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## stihl sawing (Feb 6, 2010)

HuskyMike said:


> The tree was topped in a storm, all the branch whirls went with the top. Not a single branch left, just the stem, like a telephone pole. It leaned because half way up the tree, it started to grow crooked and more toward that side. How would I get a rope around something like that? The other trees that have to go are the same exact way. Thanks


This may be crazy advice too, but i just put an extension ladder on the tree and take the cable up and tie it around. I have some pics of a leaner i done that way somewhere here.


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## RandyMac (Feb 6, 2010)

I hate powerlines.


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## HuskyMike (Feb 6, 2010)

stihl sawing said:


> This may be crazy advice too, but i just put an extension ladder on the tree and take the cable up and tie it around. I have some pics of a leaner i done that way somewhere here.



I don't have a ladder that tall, I made a mistake, and I know it. Thats why I am seeking advice, tieing it off is most basic idea and I should have done it.
I was just wondering if a notching or wedging tactic would have worked for a back yard logger like me!


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## ropensaddle (Feb 6, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> I hate powerlines.



I love them sure would stink typing this without them<a href="http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&lpver=3&ref=11" target="_blank"><img src="http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/000203FC.gif" border="0" title="Click to get more." ></a>


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## derwoodii (Feb 6, 2010)

Hi just having some fun now. no offense intended.
Try rope lasso cowboy style yee harr
Shoot a hole though it and thread rope it military style Hoo har.
Get on ya climb gear n rope it Arborist style dang nang Ohh no ahh. .

There be plenty of advice to come via computers, in the end your on your own to find your own way perhaps best get in a chap with the skill set to show you and learn.
Can you send some pictures off ya work it will help the pros here sort the trouble. Good luck


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## RandyMac (Feb 6, 2010)

Ahhh, "the Good", how the hell are you?
That backyard cutting crap, better left to those who are trained and equipt to handle it safely.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 6, 2010)

HuskyMike said:


> I don't have a ladder that tall, I made a mistake, and I know it. Thats why I am seeking advice, tieing it off is most basic idea and I should have done it.
> I was just wondering if a notching or wedging tactic would have worked for a back yard logger like me!



Husky it is possible the wedge would have worked but a rope or winch is a much better solution. Many times on a leaner wedge will cause adverse reaction if not done correctly. In the case your explaining a decent prunner could have set the rope high enough to help especially if the pull point were placed to swing thereby creating another hinge in case the wood one fails.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 6, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Ahhh, "the Good", how the hell are you?
> That backyard cutting crap, better left to those who are trained and equipt to handle it safely.



I been surviving power lines gives me more work because many are not ready for that challenge. Good thing I cleared them 20 years lol. PS: I tried to rep you getchas tomorrow!


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## ropensaddle (Feb 7, 2010)

Another thing that sometimes causes trouble is; over compensating with the notch placement. Many times I have seen this if it only needs a few feet to clear notch it just a little more than you would a perfect spar. If your notch is way to the side it torques the holding wood more than it would if the notch were place just a little left obstacle being right!


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## RandyMac (Feb 7, 2010)

Your a good guy Rope, I'll tire iron anyone who says otherwise.


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## derwoodii (Feb 7, 2010)

How cold is it there? News says your getting a bit of a chill just hit it with an axe and it may shatter. 
Here its about 90f light breeze off surfing with the billy lids soon.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 7, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Your a good guy Rope, I'll tire iron anyone who says otherwise.


LMAO, you just made me laugh out loud Randy.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 7, 2010)

stihl sawing said:


> LMAO, you just made me laugh out loud Randy.



Hey SS Cabot ain't that far friend<a href="http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&lpver=3&ref=11" target="_blank"><img src="http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020359.gif" border="0" title="Click to get more." ></a> lol


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## RandyMac (Feb 7, 2010)

stihl sawing said:


> LMAO, you just made me laugh out loud Randy.



That goes for you too.

I'm a bit cranky tonight, I feel like I slept in a wheelbarrow fulla rocks.

Hah hah. Ah, the effects of a violent life live on.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 7, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Hey SS Cabot ain't that far friend<a href="http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&lpver=3&ref=11" target="_blank"><img src="http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020359.gif" border="0" title="Click to get more." ></a> lol


I wasn't laughin at you being a good guy cause you are, Just never heard it phrased like that, I'll tire iron anyone that don't agree. I'm gonna use that one.lol


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## stihl sawing (Feb 7, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> That goes for you too.
> 
> I'm a bit cranky tonight, I feel like I slept in a wheelbarrow fulla rocks.
> 
> Hah hah. Ah, the effects of a violent life live on.


I agree with ya on everything, Don't wanna get tire ironed. You may get me in trouble with that saying cause i gotta use it on someone.lol


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## ropensaddle (Feb 7, 2010)

stihl sawing said:


> I wasn't laughin at you being a good guy cause you are, Just never heard it phrased like that, I'll tire iron anyone that don't agree. I'm gonna use that one.lol



SS you would prolly twist me like a pretzel anyway I was just messin around lol.


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## RandyMac (Feb 7, 2010)

Feel free to use it anytime, no charge.
I guess if we are going to highjack the lad's thread, need to have a pirate ship.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 7, 2010)

stihl sawing said:


> I agree with ya on everything, Don't wanna get tire ironed. You may get me in trouble with that saying cause i gotta use it on someone.lol



Now if you get into more trouble than a tire iron can take care of, run<a href="http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&lpver=3&ref=11" target="_blank"><img src="http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020468.gif" border="0" title="Click to get more." ></a>


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## RandyMac (Feb 7, 2010)

I don't run, if I can't finish it properly, I just stand there and take the beating, or shoot them.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 7, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> SS you would prolly twist me like a pretzel anyway I was just messin around lol.


Shoot, you did see me limping, I couldn't fight my way out of a wet paper bag right now.lol


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## stihl sawing (Feb 7, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Now if you get into more trouble than a tire iron can take care of, run<a href="http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&lpver=3&ref=11" target="_blank"><img src="http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020468.gif" border="0" title="Click to get more." ></a>





RandyMac said:


> I don't run, if I can't finish it properly, I just stand there and take the beating, or shoot them.


LOL, I can't run so there's gonna be a shooting or shanking.lol


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## ropensaddle (Feb 7, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> I don't run, if I can't finish it properly, I just stand there and take the beating, or shoot them.



Lol thats honorable I have not been in a fight in a very long time. I am not complaining either lol.


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## oregoncutter (Feb 7, 2010)

*A couple of things!*



ropensaddle said:


> Now if you get into more trouble than a tire iron can take care of, run<a href="http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&lpver=3&ref=11" target="_blank"><img src="http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020468.gif" border="0" title="Click to get more." ></a>



That reminds me of when I was about 6 years old I was ridin to the store with my dads fallin partner (big ol boy about 6,4 and pushin 300 lbs but real lean) he cut some guys off drivin, they followed us to the store, and both these guys from the car got out screamin and yellin about how they were gonna wup his ass, he reached in the back of the crewcab & pulled out a wooden louisville slugger, he handed to the bigger of the 2 guys, the guy said what the hells that for, "he said I wanna a fair fight this oughta better you boys odds now lets go" The guy gently handed the bat back, and said I don't want any trouble. He told me that bat had saved alot of men from gettin their ass kicked over the years.
Anyhow thought I'd share that story.
As to the guy wanting to know what he done wrong when the trees fell into the powerline, all I can say is it's not a good situation to practice in You might be better off hiring someone to fall those for You, and find a better scenario to practice some advanced falling techniques.


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## RandyMac (Feb 7, 2010)

stihl sawing said:


> LOL, I can't run so there's gonna be a shooting or shanking.lol



LMAO!!!
We are of a type you and me.


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## mud-dog (Feb 7, 2010)

clearance said:


> Did you leave more holding wood on the other side of the lean? Like a pie, with only a little on the lean side.



I have a book called "Back to Basics" and it illustrates and describes just the way you did, I have use a number of ideas from this book and haven't been steered wrong yet.:agree2:


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## stihl sawing (Feb 7, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> LMAO!!!
> We are of a type you and me.


LOL, Hell i couldn't run as a kid, I tried a few times when i knew they were pretty much gonna beat my ass, but always got caught.lol I sure can't now, Barely can walk.


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## RandyMac (Feb 7, 2010)

Remind me to show you plate they used to put my leg together with, I haven't ran more than 20 feet in years.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 7, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Remind me to show you plate they used to put my leg together with, I haven't ran more than 20 feet in years.


Just don't take it out.Maybe a before pic.lol


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## ropensaddle (Feb 7, 2010)

oregoncutter said:


> That reminds me of when I was about 6 years old I was ridin to the store with my dads fallin partner (big ol boy about 6,4 and pushin 300 lbs but real lean) he cut some guys off drivin, they followed us to the store, and both these guys from the car got out screamin and yellin about how they were gonna wup his ass, he reached in the back of the crewcab & pulled out a wooden louisville slugger, he handed to the bigger of the 2 guys, the guy said what the hells that for, "he said I wanna a fair fight this oughta better you boys odds now lets go" The guy gently handed the bat back, and said I don't want any trouble. He told me that bat had saved alot of men from gettin their ass kicked over the years.
> Anyhow thought I'd share that story.
> As to the guy wanting to know what he done wrong when the trees fell into the powerline, all I can say is it's not a good situation to practice in You might be better off hiring someone to fall those for You, and find a better scenario to practice some advanced falling techniques.



Brahahahah that reminds me of a time I got put before the county judge for hitting a big sog with a ball bat and putting him in the hospital. Judge asked why I did it and I said he told me he was going to rip my head of and #### in my neck. I believed he would judge so I hit him three or four times. I almost saw a grin on that judges face lol.


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## RandyMac (Feb 7, 2010)

LOL, already out, I did lose a couple of the screws though.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 7, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> LOL, already out, I did lose a couple of the screws though.


Hope the leg is still not attached to it.


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## RandyMac (Feb 7, 2010)

It is still where it started, but 5/8" shorter.


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## Greystoke (Feb 7, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> It is still where it started, but 5/8" shorter.



We have a lot in common!


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## rob b (Feb 7, 2010)

Ido alot of felling you can use a wedge a rope or if you have a piece of equipment to push the back works well. Find someone to teach you so you wont get yourself dead


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 7, 2010)

HuskyMike said:


> Which felling book is that? I would love to read it for knowledge.



Professional Timber Falling - A Procedural Approach, by Douglas Dent...
http://www.ddouglasdent.com/dent_books.htm


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 7, 2010)

Don't have a ladder, get one! (Or don't cut the tree.)

Don't have a long enough rope, get one! (Or don't cut the tree.)

You can also back a pick-up truck to the tree, then place a ladder in the bed of the truck. This will give you more height.

Also if the tree was leaning toward the electric lines or close to the electric lines, the electric company probably would have considered it a "hazard" tree and cut it down for free. Never hurts to ask.

If you need to trim a tree near power lines or work near power lines. The electric company will also be happy to come out and place protective covers over the lines. (Those long orange tube things.)


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## HuskyMike (Feb 7, 2010)

Billy_Bob said:


> Professional Timber Falling - A Procedural Approach, by Douglas Dent...
> http://www.ddouglasdent.com/dent_books.htm



Thanks!


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## stihl sawing (Feb 7, 2010)

Billy_Bob said:


> Don't have a ladder, get one! (Or don't cut the tree.)
> 
> Don't have a long enough rope, get one! (Or don't cut the tree.)
> 
> ...


BIngo, That's what ya need to do next time. I've had them cut two pines before. They were close to the lines and i caught one of the workers one day and ask him if they would cut them. He said he would ask, a couple of days later they took them down.


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## RandyMac (Feb 7, 2010)

This is the chunk of metal that they used to make the repair, if you guess what I broke, I'll tell you the story.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 7, 2010)

Well judging by the metals design, I'm gonna say ankle. i think part of the piece went under the foot.


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## RandyMac (Feb 7, 2010)

Nothing that minor, good guess. Try again


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## ropensaddle (Feb 7, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> This is the chunk of metal that they used to make the repair, if you guess what I broke, I'll tell you the story.



Hip?Pelvis


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## RandyMac (Feb 7, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Hip?Pelvis



And we have a winner!!!!!! I split the ball off my femur.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 7, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> And we have a winner!!!!!! I split the ball off my femur.


Wow, That had to hurt.Did They replace your hip ball with a metal one?


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## Mike Van (Feb 8, 2010)

Husky Mike - You probably don't want to hear my 2 cents, but here it is... If you have to go online & ask how to do this dangerous job, you shouldn't be doing it. Do you know the voltage in the wire you hit? Primary or secondary? You already hit the wire once, and got away with it. That should have been a good warning. Do we get to read in the paper about the guy that got electrocuted in front of his family trying to save hiring a pro? Do you know if you tear the wire down, the power co. can charge you for every man & truck it takes to put it back up? Rip a bushing out of a transformer and cause an oil spill, you'll pay for that too. You need a lot of o.j.t. or practice out in the woods before you even think about controling a tree with just a notch. Even the pros here don't do that [rope, winch, etc] with a danger tree, what makes you think you can?


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## danieltree (Feb 8, 2010)

I am not a logger. I fell a lot of dead trees and snags though. A snag that is 2 years old does not have enough good wood left in it for me to comfortably try to steer it with the hinge . A snag does not act like a full tree . I usually have very little hinge left by the time the tree begins to come over to even try to steer it . I know the rule of thumb is to place the rope high but I can get away with about 10 feet if I am not trying to pull against to much lean. I also use wedges but on dead wood these are not guaranteed to work .I put a lot of wood down and am pretty good at it but I will always stack the deck in my favor rather than damage property or die so I use a rope and wedges if there is even a slim chance of hitting something.​


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## SawTroll (Feb 8, 2010)

*Side-leaners*



clearance said:


> That could be why, didn't help. There was a thread here called tapered hinge, it was by Murphy, look for it.



Yes, some times the taperend hinge alone, or with simple wedging, is enough.

Also, for more severe leaners, a tapered hinge + cutting the "weak" side first and wedging it, usually works for me - but it has its limitations, and is not "fool proof".......

*The OP also should note that the notch always should point where he want the tree to fall.*

Practicing it in the woods before using it around valuable "targets" is a good idea!


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## Greystoke (Feb 8, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> And we have a winner!!!!!! I split the ball off my femur.



Ouch! I will have to see if I can round up my hardware so we can have another test


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## WidowMaker (Feb 8, 2010)

SawTroll said:


> Yes, some times the taperend hinge alone, or with simple wedging, is enough.
> 
> Also, for more severe leaners, a tapered hinge + cutting the "weak" side first and wedging it, usually works for me - but it has its limitations, and is not "fool proof".......
> 
> ...





===== 

I wondered if anybody was going to point that out...


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## HuskyMike (Feb 8, 2010)

Mike Van, that is the first time I hit those wires or anything for that matter, I have dropped dozens of trees in tight spots. This one just beat me this time.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 8, 2010)

HuskyMike said:


> Mike Van, that is the first time I hit those wires or anything for that matter, I have dropped dozens of trees in tight spots. This one just beat me this time.



Next time just throw a pull rope in it put on some dark shades and plug in this



It is my tree falling tunes lol

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/i18nSZBgOfs&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/i18nSZBgOfs&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## John Ellison (Feb 8, 2010)

Haha, Hey thats good Rope. Now I'm TREE fallin'


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## 056 kid (Feb 8, 2010)

HuskyMike said:


> Mike Van, that is the first time I hit those wires or anything for that matter, I have dropped dozens of trees in tight spots. This one just beat me this time.



being confident that you can drop leaners after having dropped dozens of trees is like being confident that you could be a #### star just after getting your fingers wet...


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## TreeWhitelock (Feb 8, 2010)

*leaners*

Being the top was alredy out maybe could of spiked up put a rope in it. Also back that up with some wedges, and yes leave more hinge wood on the opposite of the lean. there are other rope options like pulling the rope back at 7 or8oclock not as a pull rope but guide rope and stop it if it did start goin the wrong way.


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## ChiHD (Feb 8, 2010)

I am amazed at some of the posts on this thread. I am constantly blown away by the lack of knowledge and common sense from people who call themselves professionals.

Obviously all those yellow stars mean absolutely nothing when it comes to knowledge or experience, but they sure look pertee!!

opcorn:


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## ChiHD (Feb 8, 2010)

Mike Van said:


> Husky Mike - You probably don't want to hear my 2 cents, but here it is... If you have to go online & ask how to do this dangerous job, you shouldn't be doing it. Do you know the voltage in the wire you hit? Primary or secondary? You already hit the wire once, and got away with it. That should have been a good warning. Do we get to read in the paper about the guy that got electrocuted in front of his family trying to save hiring a pro? Do you know if you tear the wire down, the power co. can charge you for every man & truck it takes to put it back up? Rip a bushing out of a transformer and cause an oil spill, you'll pay for that too. You need a lot of o.j.t. or practice out in the woods before you even think about controling a tree with just a notch. Even the pros here don't do that [rope, winch, etc] with a danger tree, what makes you think you can?



:agree2:


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## TreeWhitelock (Feb 8, 2010)

im sure he already feels bad for what happen. dont need make him feel like crap. even mistakes happen to the best of us. that what the site is here for. to help fellow arborist. and i know we're not all arborist but askin questions is a good start


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## Gologit (Feb 8, 2010)

TreeWhitelock said:


> im sure he already feels bad for what happen. dont need make him feel like crap. even mistakes happen to the best of us. that what the site is here for. to help fellow arborist. and i know we're not all arborist but askin questions is a good start



I agree with Mike Van. I'm glad the OP is asking questions but he should have asked _before _ he fell the tree. It's obvious that he doesn't have much experience at directional falling and he's lucky he didn't get himself into trouble.

If we made him feel like crap...well, that's just the way it goes. I'd rather see him pissed off than packed out. If he wants to learn a little about falling AS is a good place to be. But if he's just going to go off on his own, do dumb stuff, and then ask us what went wrong....there's not much we can do to help him.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 8, 2010)

ArborCARE(705) said:


> I am amazed at some of the posts on this thread. I am constantly blown away by the lack of knowledge and common sense from people who call themselves professionals.
> 
> Obviously all those yellow stars mean absolutely nothing when it comes to knowledge or experience, but they sure look pertee!!
> 
> opcorn:



Ehhhhh you Ca-nooks can't tell when your hearing satire lmfao


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## ChiHD (Feb 8, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Ehhhhh you Ca-nooks can't tell when your hearing satire lmfao



I didn't say everyone with the shiny yellow stars!!


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## TreeWhitelock (Feb 8, 2010)

deinitely agree! should ask questions before cuttin.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 8, 2010)

ArborCARE(705) said:


> I didn't say everyone with the shiny yellow stars!!



He he he your going to be sporting one as soon as I reload pal. If I have not hit you in a while that is:monkey: I can give you one and a half where your at now lol


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## Gologit (Feb 8, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> He he he your going to be sporting one as soon as I reload pal. If I have not hit you in a while that is:monkey: I can give you one and a half where your at now lol



Hey Rope...I got him for you. Now he's one of THEM.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 9, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Hey Rope...I got him for you. Now he's one of THEM.



Yup and I boosted him to near number two lol


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## ChiHD (Feb 9, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Yup and I boosted him to near number two lol



Me and my big mouth!! haha thanks gents.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 9, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Yup and I boosted him to near number two lol





ArborCARE(705) said:


> Me and my big mouth!! haha thanks gents.


well i put him to number two and almost three.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 9, 2010)

stihl sawing said:


> well i put him to number two and almost three.



He sure looks like a shinning star now lol


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## stihl sawing (Feb 9, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> He sure looks like a shinning star now lol


Yup, Another week and he won't even need to turn the lights on, those stars will light up the room.


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## ChiHD (Feb 9, 2010)

stihl sawing said:


> Yup, Another week and he won't even need to turn the lights on, those stars will light up the room.



hahaha Im goin to get my shades! 

:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Gologit (Feb 9, 2010)

*Rep ho's*

Alright....that's enough! You rep ho's take it on out of here.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 9, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Alright....that's enough! You rep ho's take it on out of here.


The thanks ya get for tryin to help a guy out.LOL Besides Rope srarted it.:monkey:


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## Gologit (Feb 9, 2010)

stihl sawing said:


> The thanks ya get for tryin to help a guy out.LOL Besides Rope srarted it.:monkey:



:hmm3grin2orange:


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## purplewg (Feb 10, 2010)

I am no expert but I have fell a lot of trees. I NEVER drop one without a rope if there is anyway it can hit something of value regardless of how sure I am of myself and I have driven stakes I placed in the ground as where I expected the trunk to land.

Methods I have used, tree between power lines and barn. I have to drop it in a 10 foot area. Tree was around 50-55 ft tall. Limbs mostly at the top. I climbed it with a hunters climbing tree stand and put my rope above the center. Notched it and pulled it over.

No limbs except at the top? I tied kite string on an arrow and shot the arrow over the top of the tree. Used the kite string to pull a rope up there.

I normally use an old horseshoe tied to a rope. I swing the horseshoe around on about a 2-3 lead and hurl it up there. I can easily toss one 30-40 feet that way.

Another thing is wind. If there is any chance the wind will change and catch me off guard I rope it.

Leaners are always roped unless I am falling into the lean. 

You can never be too careful. I had a huge pine tied off to a tractor, notched it, back cut it what I thought was not too much, walked to the tractor to pull it over and it fell at my heels with a big whoosh! That was my lucky day and since I never walk in the fall line, NEVER!


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## ropensaddle (Feb 11, 2010)

purplewg said:


> I am no expert but I have fell a lot of trees. I NEVER drop one without a rope if there is anyway it can hit something of value regardless of how sure I am of myself and I have driven stakes I placed in the ground as where I expected the trunk to land.
> 
> Methods I have used, tree between power lines and barn. I have to drop it in a 10 foot area. Tree was around 50-55 ft tall. Limbs mostly at the top. I climbed it with a hunters climbing tree stand and put my rope above the center. Notched it and pulled it over.
> 
> ...



Ok purp just out of curiosity were you doing this for hire or just on your property?
1 It is illegal and punishable by law for non qualified tree trimmers to work on a tree within 10 foot of any energized conductor,fixture or apparatus. It is good you put ropes into the tree but you already said your no expert in this business there are many who are who have been killed and not by being stupid but by mistake and even sometimes freak accidents of which nothing but staying in bed would cure. This is a professional forum I am not bashing you I am merely pointing out the fact that you are flirting with personal injury,death and even legal issues by doing work the way your describing. I know this work is alluring so what I strongly suggest is you get a job under someone who knows this business and learn it right before you become the next fatality.


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## clearance (Feb 11, 2010)

purplewg said:


> I am no expert but I have fell a lot of trees. I NEVER drop one without a rope if there is anyway it can hit something of value regardless of how sure I am of myself and I have driven stakes I placed in the ground as where I expected the trunk to land.



Now where is the fun in that, got to roll the dice sometimes. Just to know your still alive.


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## purplewg (Feb 11, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Ok purp just out of curiosity were you doing this for hire or just on your property?
> 1 It is illegal and punishable by law for non qualified tree trimmers to work on a tree within 10 foot of any energized conductor,fixture or apparatus. It is good you put ropes into the tree but you already said your no expert in this business there are many who are who have been killed and not by being stupid but by mistake and even sometimes freak accidents of which nothing but staying in bed would cure. This is a professional forum I am not bashing you I am merely pointing out the fact that you are flirting with personal injury,death and even legal issues by doing work the way your describing. I know this work is alluring so what I strongly suggest is you get a job under someone who knows this business and learn it right before you become the next fatality.



Rope, maybe I need to clarify. I don't proclaim to be an expert. I had some good laughs watching the so called experts and their antics sometimes.

We have no such laws down here. Maybe it is to protect the stupid? Yep, seen the professionals killed also.

I don't hire out I have a job already thanks. Was not on my property BTW. we do what we have to do down here.


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## RandyMac (Feb 11, 2010)

I once drove a stake into the ground, to mark where the tree was going to hit, and punctured a waterline.


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## purplewg (Feb 11, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> I once drove a stake into the ground, to mark where the tree was going to hit, and punctured a waterline.



Now that is funny. I usually just push a little stick or two in the ground.


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## slowp (Feb 11, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> I once drove a stake into the ground, to mark where the tree was going to hit, and punctured a waterline.



I got my overgrown Christmas tree to land between the rock and the rotting cedar fence! My friend's eyes and mouth gaped wide open, cuz it actually went close to where I said it would go. The powerline was underground and I missed hitting the dog. Does that count? :biggrinbounce2:


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## RandyMac (Feb 11, 2010)

slowp said:


> I got my overgrown Christmas tree to land between the rock and the rotting cedar fence! My friend's eyes and mouth gaped wide open, cuz it actually went close to where I said it would go. The powerline was underground and I missed hitting the dog. Does that count? :biggrinbounce2:



Yes, dear.


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## purplewg (Feb 11, 2010)

slowp said:


> I got my overgrown Christmas tree to land between the rock and the rotting cedar fence! My friend's eyes and mouth gaped wide open, cuz it actually went close to where I said it would go. The powerline was underground and I missed hitting the dog. Does that count? :biggrinbounce2:



Well lets see, was the power-line more than 10 feet away? lol Stupid dogs always seem to dash right into where the tree is going to fall. Think they have a death wish?


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## slowp (Feb 11, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Yes, dear.



Thank-you honey. :biggrinbounce2:


Hey Purple, Don't be calling my dog stupid!!!! That's not a nice thing to do.


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## purplewg (Feb 11, 2010)

slowp said:


> Thank-you honey. :biggrinbounce2:
> 
> 
> Hey Purple, Don't be calling my dog stupid!!!! That's not a nice thing to do.




lololol Wasn't calling yours stupid, calling mine stupid. Both of my labs answer to goofy or stupid $hit. lol


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## Gologit (Feb 11, 2010)

purplewg said:


> We have no such laws down here. Maybe it is to protect the stupid? Yep, seen the professionals killed also.



You might double check on those laws.

And you've actually _seen_ professionals get killed? You were there?


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## purplewg (Feb 11, 2010)

Gologit said:


> You might double check on those laws.
> 
> And you've actually _seen_ professionals get killed? You were there?




Did check and yes I saw a professional tree climber get killed topping a tree.


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## Gologit (Feb 11, 2010)

purplewg said:


> Did check and yes I saw a professional tree climber get killed topping a tree.



Looks like you're all set. Go. Cut.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 11, 2010)

purplewg said:


> Did check and yes I saw a professional tree climber get killed topping a tree.



Your mistaken the laws regarding power are federal and even though Florida is mostly Cuban your still so far part of the USA. Non -qualified deer stand cutters are not permitted to climb, pull vines, or anything short of hanging them selves within ten feet of energized conductors fixture or apparatus. Call osha ask them then call your power company they will take them down for you if you tell them your plans. I have trimmed around live power for over twenty five years been to all sorts of osha meetings and seen all sorts of fried deer stand climbers with chains for buck straps don't make my insurance go up learn this business from pros or stay away from obstacles. Also if your doing tree work for hire get license and insurance because legitimate businesses that do don't enjoy your kind and your difinately breaking law by not being licensed so better check again bub.



PS: checking with the local crack dealer don't count as checking.<a href="http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&lpver=3&ref=11" target="_blank"><img src="http://content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/00020468.gif" border="0" title="Click to get more." ></a>


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## Gologit (Feb 11, 2010)

Hey Rope....

Quit confusing him with logic, common sense, and the reality of the situation. He has his mind made up and it sounds like all the good advice you guys have given him is not only ignored but unwelcome as well.

Me, I'd listen to you about hot lines. But that's just me.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 11, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Hey Rope....
> 
> Quit confusing him with logic, common sense, and the reality of the situation. He has his mind made up and it sounds like all the good advice you guys have given him is not only ignored but unwelcome as well.
> 
> Me, I'd listen to you about hot lines. But that's just me.



Lol yeah guess your right I am spoiling all the fun reading ehhhhhh:monkey:


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## stihl sawing (Feb 11, 2010)

I've cut a few leaners but in all seriousnes, If it's close to a power line, Forget it. I ain't touchin it. Like was mentioned many liabilities involved with something like that. If i ever come on one that needs that, i'll be callin rope to take care of it. I have refused a few good oaks that would have made a lot of firewood, They were either right next to a house or a powerline. just ain't worth the risk involved.


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## purplewg (Feb 11, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Looks like you're all set. Go. Cut.



No problem do it all the time...


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## purplewg (Feb 11, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Your mistaken the laws regarding power are federal and even though Florida is mostly Cuban your still so far part of the USA. Non -qualified deer stand cutters are not permitted to climb, pull vines, or anything short of hanging them selves within ten feet of energized conductors fixture or apparatus. Call osha ask them then call your power company they will take them down for you if you tell them your plans. I have trimmed around live power for over twenty five years been to all sorts of osha meetings and seen all sorts of fried deer stand climbers with chains for buck straps don't make my insurance go up learn this business from pros or stay away from obstacles. Also if your doing tree work for hire get license and insurance because legitimate businesses that do don't enjoy your kind and your difinately breaking law by not being licensed so better check again bub.



Non -qualified deer stand cutters *are* permitted to climb, pull vines, or anything short of hanging them selves within ten feet of energized conductors fixture or apparatus as long *as they notify the power line owner and/of if the power line carries less than 750 volts*

Any residential drop off of a step-down transformer will be below the 750 volt limit.

Therefore I am not breaking any laws, I do not hire out for tree work, I have recommended many times folks go hire a "professional". I am getting too old to play tree monkey anymore.

A man has to know his limitations. The one I dropped was 10 1/2 feet off of a 240VAC line which is the residential drop which is still enough to fry you.

Oh, what exactly is my kind? Someone who has a ranch with lots of trees? Someone who's friends are ranchers with lots of trees? Someone who helps friends when asked?


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## ropensaddle (Feb 11, 2010)

purplewg said:


> Non -qualified deer stand cutters *are* permitted to climb, pull vines, or anything short of hanging them selves within ten feet of energized conductors fixture or apparatus as long *as they notify the power line owner and/of if the power line carries less than 750 volts*
> 
> Any residential drop off of a step-down transformer will be below the 750 volt limit.
> 
> ...


No if your not doing for hire that is different but the laws on power are energized conductors. The power company may have let something slide through on the deal but legally non Qualified tree trimmers are not legally within rights to trim or cut within 10 foot of any energized conductor fixture or apparatus. I am sorry if I misunderstood your posting but climbing with a deer stand unless your using climbing gear or better wording fall arrest is taking your life for granted and felling trees in and around powerlines is or can be putting others at serious risk. I meant better intentions than the way it played out.


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## purplewg (Feb 11, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> No if your not doing for hire that is different but the laws on power are energized conductors. The power company may have let something slide through on the deal but legally non Qualified tree trimmers are not legally within rights to trim or cut within 10 foot of any energized conductor fixture or apparatus. I am sorry if I misunderstood your posting but climbing with a deer stand unless your using climbing gear or better wording fall arrest is taking your life for granted and felling trees in and around powerlines is or can be putting others at serious risk. I meant better intentions than the way it played out.




Not a problem. Oh, one more thing. The only laborers we can hire here are Mexicans. Cubans won't work.


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## Dayto (Feb 11, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> I once drove a stake into the ground, to mark where the tree was going to hit, and punctured a waterline.




hahaha thats awesome , You get some rep for that one buddie.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 11, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> I once drove a stake into the ground, to mark where the tree was going to hit, and punctured a waterline.


they should have started calling you "Right on target Randy" after that amazing feat. But whoevers waterline you busted probably wasn't too happy.lol


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## Gologit (Feb 11, 2010)

purplewg said:


> Cubans won't work.



None of them? I better check on those two guys I had piling brush for me last year. They claimed to be Cuban...but they worked their butts off. Maybe they were just pretending to be Cuban. I'll be using them again this year.


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## RandyMac (Feb 12, 2010)

stihl sawing said:


> they should have started calling you "Right on target Randy" after that amazing feat. But whoevers waterline you busted probably wasn't too happy.lol



LOL
Actually I was glad I find where the waterline was, I had been misinformed by the resident dowser, by several feet. A poke with a stick is nothing compared to the slam of a big tree.
That nickname isn't on my list, I have had several over the years, some are even repeatable.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 12, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> LOL
> Actually I was glad I find where the waterline was, I had been misinformed by the resident dowser, by several feet. A poke with a stick is nothing compared to the slam of a big tree.
> That nickname isn't on my list, I have had several over the years, some are even repeatable.



Twice in 26 years I have had limbs falling and stick in the ground and get waterlines first time I did it I thought I struck oil lol One time we were called out to trim a new power construction job and it never fails every time the management of utilities does things it turns into huge cluster ####s, they will be building roads laying pipe and oll sorts of stupid crap while your attempting to not kill someone clearing trees lol. I have #####ed about it for years but the armchair management listens not lmao. One such time they were building a fiber optic line at the same time we were trimming the fiber boss comes up and goes ballistic and mind you it is 100 degrees in the shade and I inform him he better calm down before I have to open up a can. It seems the line got hammered by a limb and that meant he would have to call in a splice crew yada yada yada. I said well I did not even know it happened till now and that I don't get to make decisions about when we trim a new project out. He said don't let it happen again and I said and pointed three miles down the line and said my company expects everything within fifteen foot gone and trimmed in a week and a half tops I can not make that promise to you. About an hour goes by and several trims and the electric manager pulls up and we go over it again and finally I ask him do you expect this done next week and he say yes and I say and point again down the line and then tell him if I rope every limb off it is the only way to know for sure that line is not getting damaged I will be lucky to be a 1/4 finished next week. I then asked what was so bad about having to splice it a couple times if necessary. They finally pulled us out until the fiber line was layed but it must be expensive because he said cost of splicing and nothing else lol. This is why I don't care for corporations and their degrees puppets that have no experiance with work and are deaf when they talk with people that do have it!


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## purplewg (Feb 12, 2010)

Gologit said:


> None of them? I better check on those two guys I had piling brush for me last year. They claimed to be Cuban...but they worked their butts off. Maybe they were just pretending to be Cuban. I'll be using them again this year.




Well there may be one or two. Mostly they just sell crack.


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## gwiley (Feb 12, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I then asked what was so bad about having to splice it a couple times if necessary. They finally pulled us out until the fiber line was layed but it must be expensive because he said cost of splicing and nothing else lol.



I am surprised that he didn't give you figures. Depending on the fiber you can easily spend $10K per splice, more in some cases.


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