# Anyone have experience with the Stihl Yard Boss mini tiller?



## yungman (Feb 24, 2008)

I have been looking at a mini tiller to do dethatcher for my lawn, Stihl Yard Boss has the most attachments that I like, bloom, dethatcher, aerator. I just never hear anything about this.

1) Is the engine commercial grade eg. 300 hours emmision durability rating? It looks like the same engine as the home scaper trimmer engine!!! 

2) Is the transmission as durable as Mantis or Honda FG110?

3) Can the engine speed control by throtle so I can go slow using the dethatcher attachment? Can it do at least half way decent job on dethatching being such a small in size and cheap compare to the real thing??!!

4) Someone has a parts diagram that you can post it here?

5) Can slit tine of the aerator tine do the job of aerate the lawn. Once again take into consideration that it only cost less than 1/5 of the real thing.

Thanks


----------



## eyolf (Feb 24, 2008)

Do you mean aerator, as in poking millions of little holes in your sod?
The little tiller might work for that, but you wont last long, as the ground speed is a little high...faster than a brisk walk, but slower than a run. Would wear you down fast. Commercial aerators make a lot wider swath, but move at a more reasonable pace.

I got one for taking care of some gardening tasks. They work really well for small areas. I bought one after comparing to the Echo/Mantis...two dealers in my area handle them and neither was very enthusiastic about the Mantis. The Stihl guy had a Stihl in stock, while the Jonsered guy didn't have the Honda mini on hand.

Some have made comparisons of the engine to Stihl's homeowner trimmers. IMO, the unit is well enough made. Mine gets about 15-20 hrs of use per year, including lending it to my F-I-L, and sister. At that rate it will take 20 years to use it up, and I won't care that its worn out in 20 years...I'll be living in a condo or tooling around in a motorhome. If I were a commercial landscape contractor putting 2 or 3 hundred hours a season on the thing, it would have paid for itself a number of times over, and I would have two or three of them.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 24, 2008)

yungman said:


> I have been looking at a mini tiller to do dethatcher for my lawn, Stihl Yard Boss has the most attachments that I like, bloom, dethatcher, aerator. I just never hear anything about this.This is a Saw forum. But I will answer your question anyway.
> 
> 1) Is the engine commercial grade eg. 300 hours emmision durability rating?The emissions rating does mot make an engine commercial grade. It is just a number to appease the EPA. It looks like the same engine as the home scaper trimmer engine!!! No the engine will last longer than 300 hours if taken care of. You need to learn more about this rating. Apparently you do not know what it means and have been reading the echo marketing bs.
> If echo wants to state that their engine will last 300 hours then 300 hours it is. The Stihl will last many more than that.2) Is the transmission as durable as Mantis or Honda FG110?
> ...



Answers above. This machine is the best on the market. Heavier than the others so their is less bouncing. Forward swept handles, so you are in control of it, also more comfortable. Esaier to start than the others due to the fact that you can lay it down and start so it doe's not run away. The frame is solid, not flimsy like the echo/mantis. Many in the shops with broken frames. Real trigger assy and not a flimsy piece of plastic and a toggle switch.

Is this enough info for you.


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

The Mantis is the best on the market for a mini-tiller/cultivator. It is purpose designed to do what it's sold to do, versus the Stihl which is a converted weed-wacker. Notice the engine placement on the Stihl vs. the Mantis...the Mantis engine is directly above the tines, so the weight of the motor is exactly where it should be to allow the machine to do its best work. The Stihl, being a weedwacker on a frame, has the engine set back up at an angle toward the user. This causes balance issues and keeps the Stihl from working as well as the Mantis.

I have owned a Manis now for five years...it's frame is absolutely more than adequate for the job. I can't imagine how I would ever break it. And the part about it running away doesn't exist, at least on my 4-stroke. It starts at idle speed, every time. At idle speed, the clutch isn't engaged, the tines don't turn.

Get a four-stroke Mantis with the Honda...any "yardener" considers them the gold standard, and have for years and years.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> The Mantis is the best on the market for a mini-tiller/cultivator. It is purpose designed to do what it's sold to do, versus the Stihl which is a converted weed-wacker. Notice the engine placement on the Stihl vs. the Mantis...the Mantis engine is directly above the tines, so the weight of the motor is exactly where it should be to allow the machine to do its best work. The Stihl, being a weedwacker on a frame, has the engine set back up at an angle toward the user. This causes balance issues and keeps the Stihl from working as well as the Mantis.
> 
> I have owned a Manis now for five years...it's frame is absolutely more than adequate for the job. I can't imagine how I would ever break it. And the part about it running away doesn't exist, at least on my 4-stroke. It starts at idle speed, every time. At idle speed, the clutch isn't engaged, the tines don't turn.
> 
> Get a four-stroke Mantis with the Honda...any "yardener" considers them the gold standard, and have for years and years.



The Mantis is a joke. A lot like you.LOL


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

Just Mow said:


> The Mantis is a joke. A lot like you.LOL



The Mantis was the original. Unlike you.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> The Mantis was the original. Unlike you.



The Stihl is better, Just like me.........................


----------



## yungman (Feb 25, 2008)

Guys Guys!!! Everyone is entitle to their opinion!!! Thanks for the help.

Anyone know whether the Stihl Home Scaper engine is a single ring or two ring engine? Is the engine going to last as long as the Honda?


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 25, 2008)

its a two ring piston on the stihl, you can't compare four strokes and two strokes. If you want the machine in a two stroke get the stihl vs the mantis with the echo motor i had one and the rod bearing seized out of no where and i had the right mix in the pos. The stihl will have more torque. I've used all three. I personally like the Honda mini tiller it didn't seem to have no problems what so ever and was responsive and durable being a 4 stroke. It revved until my heart was content and if home depot rents them i think its a mantis and it has a Honda motor on it believe me they take abuse and hold up. As for the stihl i have a fs 45 weed wacker which is the same motor on the tiller that i beat the hell out of for 3 seasons straight. It has never failed to start and produces alot of torque for a 27.2 cc motor.Besides that parts are easy to get for it, if i ever need them. so it all depends on your opinion in the end if your a four stroke guy or a 2 stroke guy. hope this helps


----------



## yungman (Feb 25, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> its a two ring piston on the stihl, you can't compare four strokes and two strokes. If you want the machine in a two stroke get the stihl vs the mantis with the echo motor i had one and the rod bearing seized out of no where and i had the right mix in the pos. The stihl will have more torque. I've used all three. I personally like the Honda mini tiller it didn't seem to have no problems what so ever and was responsive and durable being a 4 stroke. It revved until my heart was content and if home depot rents them i think its a mantis and it has a Honda motor on it believe me they take abuse and hold up. As for the stihl i have a fs 45 weed wacker which is the same motor on the tiller that i beat the hell out of for 3 seasons straight. It has never failed to start and produces alot of torque for a 27.2 cc motor.Besides that parts are easy to get for it, if i ever need them. so it all depends on your opinion in the end if your a four stroke guy or a 2 stroke guy. hope this helps



I just like to confirm, you are talking about Honda FG110, not Mantis with Honda engine. What you said is for 2 cycle, Stihl engine is better than the Mantis(Echo ) 2 cycle. I know the old Honda FG100 has gear box problem, did they fix it on the FG110? How is the Mantis with Honda engine compare with Honda FG110? I do like the 4 cycle because it is a lot quieter.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

Well, It's no secret that Mantis has been using the Kioritz (echo) 2 stroke engines for decades now. 

Now you can get the Mantis...but FROM Echo. The new Echo TC-210i Mini-Tiller/Cultivator is basically the same thing as the mantis, side by side.

This means that an ECHO dealer would be able to supply any and all parts for this piece of equipment, from tines to tuneup parts.

The ECHO engine offers a 2 ring design "Power Boost Vortex". 

Tine speed is reduced "42:1" for more torque and less tip speed so you can do more work.

http://www.echo-usa.com/product.asp?Model=TC-210i&Category=TILLER


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

Let's compare the Yard Boss to the TC-210i...

Echo- 
Weight: 19.5lbs
Width: 9"
Fuel tank capacity: 17 oz
Price: 299.99
Consumer Warranrty: 5 Years
Commercial Warranty: 1 year
Rental Warranty: 90 days

Stihl
Weight: 20.7lbs
Width: 8.5"
Fuel Tank Capacity: 10.1oz
Price: 329.95
Consumer Warranty: 2 years
Commercial Warranty: 1 year
Rental Warranty 30 days

--------
The Echo offers Reversible Tines with a LIFETIME WARRANTY:jawdrop:


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> Let's compare the Yard Boss to the TC-210i...
> 
> Echo-
> Weight: 19.5lbs
> ...



Yes Red lets compare. Isn't it funny that you didn't list horsepower. Well since the Echo 21 cc unit does not generate a horsepower and the Stihl has over a horse, I would have to say, advantage Stihl.

The tines on the Stihl are reversible as well. You turn the gearbox around, takes about 30 seconds.
The frame on the Stihl is aircraft aluminum instead of a cheesy tri-cycle frame that you can find broken in most shops because they are thin and can't handle the bouncing that the Echo does.

Also, for 329.00 the customer gets a wheel kit with the Stihl, I guess since you are not a dealer you would not know this so i'll excuse you on this.

As far as the 5yr warranty. It doesn't cover anything that the 2yr warranty covers. You know as well as I that if it is a true warranty it will occur in a very short period of time. The purpose of the Echo 5yr was to appease Home Depot.

All in all, the MM55 is built much better than the Mantis/Echo unit.


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 25, 2008)

About the guy supporting echo, there easy to get echo parts since its such a common motor they use. I'll say one thing i have two mantis' i bought one with a bad gear box for 15 bucks and had a echo on it. The other one i had seized and i pulled the jug and i noticed the rod bearing seized and sprayed wd and it loosened the rod bearing and it still runs to day. from day one i just didn't like it that much but it always got the job done. the pos crap toggle switch broke. the stihl motor just seems to have so much more power. The mantis with the honda is what i would get but thats a little more costly. As for gear boxes i think mantis had its issues too at one point. i know the honda brand did im not sure if they corrected it. As for stihl though i don't think they ever had that problem with gear boxes. As for the tines i think mantis has lifetime replacement too. Mantis is the original mini tiller though. Honda made motors for them and decided to make there own. Echo did the same thing. I guess stihl just did it because everyone else has one and they seemed to do the best because they watched everyone elses mistakes


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> About the guy supporting echo, there easy to get echo parts since its such a common motor they use. I'll say one thing i have two mantis' i bought one with a bad gear box for 15 bucks and had a echo on it. The other one i had seized and i pulled the jug and i noticed the rod bearing seized and sprayed wd and it loosened the rod bearing and it still runs to day. from day one i just didn't like it that much but it always got the job done. the pos crap toggle switch broke. the stihl motor just seems to have so much more power. The mantis with the honda is what i would get but thats a little more costly. As for gear boxes i think mantis had its issues too at one point. i know the honda brand did im not sure if they corrected it. As for stihl though i don't think they ever had that problem with gear boxes. As for the tines i think mantis has lifetime replacement too. Mantis is the original mini tiller though. Honda made motors for them and decided to make there own. Echo did the same thing. I guess stihl just did it because everyone else has one and they seemed to do the best because they watched everyone elses mistakes



Very good post. I would rep you if I was not out.

Yes, Stihl waited and looked at the faults of the others before bringing their's out.


----------



## yungman (Feb 25, 2008)

I think the Honda is the same power as Stihl, both are about 1.1hp.

Echo Vortex has only one ring!!! 

Guys, be nice!!!


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

Just Mow said:


> The frame on the Stihl is aircraft aluminum instead of a cheesy tri-cycle frame that you can find broken in most shops because they are thin and can't handle the bouncing that the Echo does.
> 
> All in all, the MM55 is built much better than the Mantis/Echo unit.



"Aircraft aluminum?" You know another word for "aircraft aluminum?"

Yup...you guessed it..."aluminum."

As opposed to the Mantis, which is "steel."

The MM55 is a homescaper product by Stihl's own admission. Versus the Mantis, which is operated by professional landscapers. (Not "lawn mowers," but nurserymen, install crews, etc.) If it were Stihl's pro-quality, they would be the first to tell you it was "Professional Quality." Funny they don't...

My experience with Stihl's homescaper engines has been...shall we say..."spotty?"

Under no circumstances is the MM55 better built than a Mantis. 

Stick with a 4-cycle Honda-powered Mantis...you simply won't believe how quiet the thing is. And power to spare.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

Seems funny, We move a relatively high volume of these Mantis tillers through our shop, from the new ones, to the very old ones..the ones that still had the steel heat deflector around the cylinder. People use these mini-tillers quite alot. We are in a fairly rural area, lots of small gardens. We are seeing about 4 a week now, and that number will skyrocket as the season preogresses. Most are just in for a tuneup..Plug, fuel filter, tune carb, Air filter.

So far Ive seen 0 frame failures, 0 gearbox failures, 0 clutch failures, 0 mechanical failures.

Ive seen a handful of a tillers where the toggle switch failed, took a minute to swap the switch out for a new one.

Most common thing is people leave a quarter tank of gas in them at the end of the season, and it goes bad sitting in a hot shed for a few months when it isnt needed...when they go to use it, it's all gummed up. So far all carbs have cleaned up with just a new kit and a Filter.


If you use it right, they work fast and are nimble and effective. It's meant for breaking up soil around plants/vegetables, and keeping weeds down in flower beds, thats all any of these things are supposed to be used for. If you have a fairly small garden you could weed your rows if need be. Dont need wheels..dont need bolo tines..all you need are the pick tines.

To use them properly you let it walk forward, then pull it back, walk forward, pull it back. You use the handles like bike handle bars to quickly maneuver it around plants. It only takes about 5 minutes to master controlling one in tight quarters. I see people trying to use them like a tiller, where they hold it back and slowly walk forward...Their method Contains FAIL.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> "Aircraft aluminum?" You know another word for "aircraft aluminum?"
> 
> Yup...you guessed it..."aluminum."
> 
> ...



The Honda optioned Mantis' are nice, but Ive been told the price is considerably more than the 2 stroke MAntis, and it's a little heavier.

I like the 2 stroke's simply because they are light, simple, and reliable. The older Echo's were fairly loud, muffler wise, but the more modern ones have a very improved muffler/diffuser setup, a ton easier on the ears.

Id still take the Honda mantis over a Stihl MM55


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> "Aircraft aluminum?" You know another word for "aircraft aluminum?"
> 
> Yup...you guessed it..."aluminum."
> 
> ...



There is nothing wrong with the honda engine on the mantis it just cost 80 dollars more than the Stihl which i feel can do the same job with a little more noise. Yes, it was noted as a home owner product by Stihl that doesn't mean it cannot be used for commercial usage. They can even be used for more than tilling purposes they have a few attachments. They just haven't been in the market long enough to see the same sales as mantis. The only reason why you see the mantis used by professionals is because they habe been around longer not because it is commercial because of its "echo commercial grade 21.2 cc engine." Perhaps thats why you don't see the echo branded tillers out either that much with the professionals there just like the stihl because they haven't been out for that long either. Mantis has been around for over a decade. When people bought them perhaps they had no alternative other than craftsman. I believe all these mini tillers were made for the purpose of homeowners in mind and professionals just decided to use them as they are convenient.


----------



## yungman (Feb 25, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> Seems funny, We move a relatively high volume of these Mantis tillers through our shop, from the new ones, to the very old ones..the ones that still had the steel heat deflector around the cylinder. People use these mini-tillers quite alot. We are in a fairly rural area, lots of small gardens. We are seeing about 4 a week now, and that number will skyrocket as the season preogresses. Most are just in for a tuneup..Plug, fuel filter, tune carb, Air filter.
> 
> So far Ive seen 0 frame failures, 0 gearbox failures, 0 clutch failures, 0 mechanical failures.
> 
> ...



That is very encouraging to hear about Mantis. You work on any Honda FG110? they are cheaper than Mantis Honda. They claim they beef up the gear on the new FG110......they use a smaller engine than the FG100!!!


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)




----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> "Aircraft aluminum?" You know another word for "aircraft aluminum?"
> 
> Yup...you guessed it..."aluminum."
> 
> ...




MM55 Just Built Better, sorry Woodie.


----------



## SAWITALL (Feb 25, 2008)

MM55, Built a whole lot better than the others.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

Also, for what it's worth, MANTIS offers a vast array of attachment for their Tillers, which should fit right up to the ECHO Tiller.

Border Edger
Planter/Furrower
Plow
Lawn Dethatcher
Lawn Aerator
Crevice cleaner
Wheel Set for Crevice Cleaner
Hedge Trimmer bars

As for being around a while...They were introduced in 1980, produced in Philly. They had the FIRST mini-tiller, using a Kioritz 2 stroke engine. Ive got one of the first models. They have been around 28 years this year, with over 1,000,000 units sold. 

Ive used the NOMA version...you know the one with the Governed TC-200 Tecumseh engine...Many people say "ive used a mantis, made by..."craftsman, noma, etc etc" Only to find they didnt even use a copy...barely an Imitation. 

Stihl has entered the market to try and steal some of Mantis' business...unfortunately those that have used a MANTIS will accept NO imitations, no matter how well marketed they are.

Does STIHL offer a 1 year "like it or return it" Guarantee?


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

Go with what the pros use...the Mantis. There's a reason why the pros use them and not the Stihl.

Because the pros knows. (I meant that...)



.


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 25, 2008)

I forgot to mention the honda, compared to the older model it has i think a 25 cc ohc engine vs a 31 ohv cc and they were 4 stroke. The 25 cc motor is a *trimmer engine* kind of like the stihl. The older honda had a transmission with a smaller inferior assembly it was made by hoffo . The newer honda gear box has a larger worm gear and a smaller motor so it should last longer. Honda also states it has a commercial quality gear box. I guess theres only one way to find out. Below i have a link listed for the old transmission assembly. I'll try to find the new one. Hope this helps



http://www.hoffcocomet.com/hoffco/pdfs/tiller_Transmission.pdf.pdf


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> They have been around 28 years this year, with over 1,000,000 units sold.
> 
> ...those that have used a MANTIS will accept NO imitations, no matter how well marketed they are.



I think those two things say it all. You have a Mantis...or you have a wannabe.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

SAWITALL said:


> MM55, Built a whole lot better than the others.



MANTIS...The ORIGINAL. Accept no Imitations.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 25, 2008)

This is like arguing whether Minnesota or Wisconsin has bigger mosquitos...


All machines in these classes are pathetic toys for toy gardeners. Get real.

How come someone hasn't said "buy the SOLO version". I have one at work looking for a home..


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

Speaking of Hoffco....

Ive got this old Brush Cutter called a HOFFCO "WIZZ WITCH". It's got an 85cc Tecumseh 2 stroke, 1" Down tube, about a 3" clutch, Cast clutch housing, Cast lower end bearing housing...the whole thing weighs in over 35lbs:jawdrop: I use it to drop the corn at the end of the season..I just walk the line with the throttle lever about halfway out and all I hear is "zee zee zee zee zee zee" as the 10" blade drops the thick sweet corn stalks like toothpicks.

It's loud...It's Heavy...You stihl guys would wet yourselves:monkey:


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 25, 2008)

the pros use the mantis because thats what they had in the first place, then they figure oh why not buy another when it breaks that way i already have a parts machine.well according to the website
stihl - 329.99
Mantis -349.99 (2 stroke) but wait free shipping
Mantis- 449.99 (honda) also free shipping
Honda - 349.99 @ HD
Stihl isn't trying to take away mantis' business they just felt sorry for the people buying mantis' that they wanted to give them a better product and mantis decided o wait we are in trouble we better give the consumer a free year trial to convince them that we stand behind are product. 
I guess you would say shindaiwa products are better than stihl too because yes you get a 7 day free trial or take it back to your dealer.I guess echo is too with there 5 year warranty. Its all just for marketing purposes it has no meaning quality wise.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie is stihl mad about the blower/screwdriver...........  








.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> This is like arguing whether Minnesota or Wisconsin has bigger mosquitos...
> 
> 
> All machines in these classes are pathetic toys for toy gardeners. Get real.
> ...



No, not "toy gardeners". My garden is smaller, about 80X80 on average, but I use a Wheel Horse GT to plow, a John Deere 316 to Disc, and a Cub Cadet 1200 to make Furrows....Far from Kids toys..

The Mantis has it's purpose...cleaning up around young plants where my Troy Bilt Pony and Ariens Tillers are too wide or too clumsy.


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 25, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> This is like arguing whether Minnesota or Wisconsin has bigger mosquitos...
> 
> 
> All machines in these classes are pathetic toys for toy gardeners. Get real.
> ...



Yeah or if your really on a budget go by the ryobi combo powerhead and get the tiller attachment its a hell of alot cheaper


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

*The Mantis: Purpose-built to be a cultivator.*






*The Stihl: Purpose built to be a compromise.*







Excellent pictures of exactly what I'm talking about with the engine placement. Mantis: over the tines, puts direct downward pressure on them to keep them more firmly planted in the soil. Stihl: way up the handle and angled toward the user, making the tiller more prone to bouncing, and much more awkward to use.


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 25, 2008)

That john deere 316 is nothing but a kids toy, i forgot where i saw this but the only reason they paint them green is when they break down in the field the farmer won't be embarrassed.I feel a shamed i only have a 210. Now That troy bilt pony is one hell of a machine i'll give you that. As light as the echo motor is the weight isn't going to help much anyway. There both well designed machines. I cannot argue about the motor place though


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> the pros use the mantis because thats what they had in the first place, then they figure oh why not buy another when it breaks that way i already have a parts machine.well according to the website
> stihl - 329.99
> Mantis -349.99 (2 stroke) but wait free shipping
> Mantis- 449.99 (honda) also free shipping
> ...



umm...dude, Mantis has been doing the 1 year trial for a long time..possibly since 1980. I know at least 10 years.

Keep in mind the Mantis comes with free shipping, AS WELL AS a free Border Edger and Kickstand.


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> This is like arguing whether Minnesota or Wisconsin has bigger mosquitos...
> 
> 
> All machines in these classes are pathetic toys for toy gardeners. Get real.
> ...




For the first time since joining this board, I have to say, all due respect, you're wrong here. The Mantis was originally designed for landscapers and nurserymen, and is used by them today. As to "toy gardeners," well I guess not everyone can have a couple acres of land like you. So we use what works best for us.


----------



## SAWITALL (Feb 25, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> Also, for what it's worth, MANTIS offers a vast array of attachment for their Tillers, which should fit right up to the ECHO Tiller.
> 
> Border Edger
> Planter/Furrower
> ...


----------



## SAWITALL (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> Go with what the pros use...the Mantis. There's a reason why the pros use them and not the Stihl.
> 
> Because the pros knows. (I meant that...)
> 
> ...



Like you are a pro........................
BRAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

More pro's use the Stihl than any other.


----------



## SAWITALL (Feb 25, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> MANTIS...The ORIGINAL. Accept no Imitations.



Wow, that Mantis is really impressive. NOT
Tines that you can bend with your fingers because they are cheap.
Handles that are low and sweep back so you can hold onto while it is bouncing all around the place.
A strapping gutless 21cc Echo engine.BARF
A toggle switch that has exposed wires. Boy that will last.

Exactly the reason that I don't use it and run the MM55.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> That john deere 316 is nothing but a kids toy, i forgot where i saw this but the only reason they paint them green is when they break down in the field the farmer won't be embarrassed.I feel a shamed i only have a 210. Now That troy bilt pony is one hell of a machine i'll give you that. O if you showed a picture of that stihl standing up straight you would see the gist of things. As light as the echo motor is the weight isn't going to help much anyway



I just cleaned the old Pony up. Dropped on a NOS 5hp L-head briggs, all new paint on the tiller, some new hardware...all ready to go.

Going to drop an 8hp Briggs on the Ariens, Electric start. That's a bad mofo tiller with the slasher tines. The original HH70 Tec. grenaded the flywheel magnets, and tore the coil and points right off the block.

The 316 is all restored up as well. P218G onan, 3 point hitch. 1500 hours, and it still works great. No problem pulling a loaded Tandem 48" disc.

I got other tractors though...

Mitsubishi MT-372 Diesel, Wheel Horse 310-8, Wheel Horse 416-H, Wheel Horse 702 (1962), John Deere 110-H (1967), Heckendorn 3 wheeled mower, Wheel Horse C-105, awaiting a Heart Trasnplant of a Kohler K532:censored:


----------



## SAWITALL (Feb 25, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> Speaking of Hoffco....
> 
> Ive got this old Brush Cutter called a HOFFCO "WIZZ WITCH". It's got an 85cc Tecumseh 2 stroke, 1" Down tube, about a 3" clutch, Cast clutch housing, Cast lower end bearing housing...the whole thing weighs in over 35lbs:jawdrop: I use it to drop the corn at the end of the season..I just walk the line with the throttle lever about halfway out and all I hear is "zee zee zee zee zee zee" as the 10" blade drops the thick sweet corn stalks like toothpicks.
> 
> It's loud...It's Heavy...You stihl guys would wet yourselves:monkey:



They use to build some good product.


----------



## SAWITALL (Feb 25, 2008)

04ultra said:


> Woodie is stihl mad about the blower/screwdriver...........
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought so.


----------



## SAWITALL (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> *The Mantis: Purpose-built to be a cultivator.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess I would take your posts more seriously if you actually used the tools.


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

SAWITALL said:


> Tines that you can bend with your fingers because they are cheap.



Okay, now you're just being an ass.

It's obvious you've never seen a Mantis, let alone used one in person. The Mantis tines, which are patented by the way, are unbreakable in use. Hard use, not just normal use. I can't tell you the number of times I've been cultivating up against a driveway and accidentally bounced a tine pick up on the concrete. The tiller bounces up in the air, you land it back down in the soil, and you go about your business. 

Repeat after me...unbreakable under the hardest use.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 25, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> Yeah or if your really on a budget go by the ryobi combo powerhead and get the tiller attachment its a hell of alot cheaper



The use it for a day (if it lasts a day) take it back to home depot. Cheaper then renting.


Mosts users think they can bust roots, turn lawn into fine soil, dig rocks and use these tools like a tractor. Wrong...


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

SAWITALL said:


> Wow, that Mantis is really impressive. NOT
> Tines that you can bend with your fingers because they are cheap.
> 
> Are you smoking the Dooby?
> ...



Hey, if you like Inferior products, more power to you. The pro's are using MANTIS tillers...laughing at you and your compromise.


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 25, 2008)

yes but the stihl comes with the wheel kit, in the end what this comes down to is echo or stihl. I cannot justify to spend more for a product with a echo engine than a product with a stihl engine. just curious though does mantis actually stand behind that 1 year trail. this wouldn't even be a discussion if tananka would of made a mini tiller built like their edgers.


----------



## SAWITALL (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> Okay, now you're just being an ass.
> 
> It's obvious you've never seen a Mantis, let alone used one in person. The Mantis tines, which are patented by the way, are unbreakable in use. Hard use, not just normal use. I can't tell you the number of times I've been cultivating up against a driveway and accidentally bounced a tine pick up on the concrete. The tiller bounces up in the air, you land it back down in the soil, and you go about your business.
> 
> Repeat after me...unbreakable under the hardest use.



Okay now you are being an as:censored: hole. The mantis tines bend very easy, therefore the warranty. And yes I have used one and no it will not hold up as well as the Stihl.


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

SAWITALL said:


> I guess I would take your posts more seriously if you actually used the tools.



I've owned my Mantis for five years now, Mow.


----------



## SAWITALL (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> I've owned my Mantis for five years now, Mow.



You use them, I abuse them. That's why the Stihl is built so much better. And Mow I am not.


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

SAWITALL said:


> Okay now you are being an as:censored: hole. The mantis tines bend very easy, therefore the warranty. And yes I have used one and no it will not hold up as well as the Stihl.



Mow, did you actually think about that last post before you hit "Submit?"

You're saying the tines are cheap, so they have to put a lifetime warranty on them? I want you to think about just how stupid that is, then get back to us with a correction.

If Johnny Cochrane were alive today, he'd tell you "If you're gonna be a twit, don't hit Submit."


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

You boy's still arguing over a little cultivator.


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 25, 2008)

there not unbreakable tines either, thats just a lie i saw one with a broken tine at the home depot tool rental. The whole unit is like any other consumer product built for the homeowner. Some one should just end mantis' 20 year history


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> I cannot justify to spend more for a product with a echo engine than a product with a stihl engine.



It's not a pro-grade Stihl engine, and the Echo is. My limited (1) experience with Stihl's homeowner engines is that they aren't very good.

I would take a pro-grade Echo above a homeowner Stihl any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

And so would professional landscapers.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> Mow, did you actually think about that last post before you hit "Submit?"
> 
> You're saying the tines are cheap, so they have to put a lifetime warranty on them? I want you to think about just how stupid that is, then get back to us with a correction.
> 
> If Johnny Cochrane were alive today, he'd tell you "If you're gonna be a twit, don't hit Submit."



Hey Manny's Bi:censored: H, the tines are cheap. The unit was the standard in the industry until Stihl came out with theirs.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 25, 2008)

*WildThing*







.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> It's not a pro-grade Stihl engine, and the Echo is. My limited (1) experience with Stihl's homeowner engines is that they aren't very good.
> 
> I would take a pro-grade Echo above a homeowner Stihl any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
> 
> And so would professional landscapers.



Neither is the 21cc Echo powerhead. It is a consumer engine.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> It's not a pro-grade Stihl engine, and the Echo is. My limited (1) experience with Stihl's homeowner engines is that they aren't very good.
> 
> I would take a pro-grade Echo above a homeowner Stihl any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
> 
> And so would professional landscapers.



Limited     experience


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

Just Mow said:


> the tines are cheap.



Gee...sawitall seems to have gone away...but you're here, Mow...

Okay, I guess I'll adress this to the "Mow" Mow...

If Mantis tines are cheap, how come they're guaranteed for life?

Cause you know, Stihl's aren't...


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> Gee...sawitall seems to have gone away...but you're here, Mow...
> 
> Okay, I guess I'll adress this to the "Mow" Mow...
> 
> ...



Woodie, go to an Echo/Stihl dealer and try to bend the tines. If you can't bend the tines with one hand on the Mantis then I guess you are a little girl.
Let me know, okay Louise.


----------



## chowdozer (Feb 25, 2008)

Because the Mantis won't last long enough to wear them out?


----------



## eyolf (Feb 25, 2008)

You guys are a hoot.

I have a Stihl mini-tiller, and it works. I have nothing bad to say about the Mantis, except that two local dealers carry them, keep one in stock, but were both more enthusiastic about Stihl and Honda.

Besides, the original poster was asking if a mini-tiller would double as an aerator. I doubt if that's the same as picking a fight.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> there not unbreakable tines either, thats just a lie i saw one with a broken tine at the home depot tool rental. The whole unit is like any other consumer product built for the homeowner. Some one should just end mantis' 20 year history




WHISKEY
TANGO
FOXTROT

_OVER_


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 25, 2008)

yeah just because they say that the echo has a 21.2 commercial grade motor doesn't mean it is commerical. That home owner stihl will out run that echo any way. As for the stihl tines not being guaranteed for life.Thats because the cost of replacement tines for the mantis are already built into the price on the initial purchase. Ok i'll end it for mr. Whiskey
Tango 
Foxtrot

this whole thread is opinionated. did you have to use the word TANGO


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> yeah just because they say that the echo has a 21.2 commercial grade motor doesn't mean it is commerical. That home owner stihl will out run that echo any way. As for the stihl tines not being guaranteed for life.Thats because the cost of replacement tines for the mantis are already built into the price on the initial purchase



+1


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> As for the stihl tines not being guaranteed for life.Thats because the cost of replacement tines for the mantis are already built into the price on the initial purchase



You're right. They're built into the price. And since they are unbreakable in the hardest use, they add approximately zero dollars to the price.

Good point.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

chowdozer said:


> Because the Mantis won't last long enough to wear them out?



:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: 

Now ya done it Woodie, ya done brought brother Chow to the show.


----------



## LazyJ (Feb 25, 2008)

I inherited my MIL's Mantis several years ago, tough lil' critters. Mine's spent 100's of hours bungie-tied to the dock on my catfish pond in the hot August sun aerating the water. I've even chewed up a few rotten stumps with it that were too close to buildings to burn. Very frustrating if actually tilling with it, any decent clump of weeds will helplessly clog the tines.


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

eyolf said:


> You guys are a hoot.
> 
> I have a Stihl mini-tiller, and it works. I have nothing bad to say about the Mantis, except that two local dealers carry them, keep one in stock, but were both more enthusiastic about Stihl and Honda.



Dealer mark-ups are probably much higher. Dealers usually get a higher mark-up on the cheaper brands. Ask a woodworking supply company how much mark-up they get on 3M products compared to their imitators.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> You're right. They're built into the price. And since they are unbreakable in the hardest use, they add approximately zero dollars to the price.
> 
> Good point.



I have never seen one break Woodie, but I can bend them with one hand. The whole unit is cheaply made and marketed good. They were the first and still have many repeat customers. All I have done on here is point out why the Stihl is built better.


----------



## chowdozer (Feb 25, 2008)

Just Mow said:


> :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:
> 
> Now ya done it Woodie, ya done brought brother Chow to the show.



I'm a gonna cover my eyes before Red drops his panties. Don't say I didn't warn you guys. :monkey:


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

chowdozer said:


> Because the Mantis won't last long enough to wear them out?



Mine's about 26 years old...tines arent worn out...Tiller still purrs.

fwiw, I worked on a Troy Bilt HORSE that was a good 35 years old and the original owner used it 2 times a year to prep a 200X100 garden, and the tines were about halfway to needing replacement...

I seriously doubt anyone could literally WEAR OUT a set of Mantis tines...I hit rocks, roots with mine, enough to stop the tines cold...and they dont bend or break.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

chowdozer said:


> I'm a gonna cover my eyes before Red drops his panties. Don't say I didn't warn you guys. :monkey:



Is he dropping them for his new friend Woodie.LOL


----------



## chowdozer (Feb 25, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> Mine's about 26 years old...tines arent worn out...Tiller still purrs.
> 
> fwiw, I worked on a Troy Bilt HORSE that was a good 35 years old and the original owner used it 2 times a year to prep a 200X100 garden, and the tines were about halfway to needing replacement...
> 
> I seriously doubt anyone could literally WEAR OUT a set of Mantis tines...I hit rocks, roots with mine, enough to stop the tines cold...and they dont bend or break.



My dad has a Troybilt that's 28 years old and he roto's 1/4 acre every spring, rows during the season, and everything in the fall. All he's done is replaced the axle seals. So what's your point?

I have a Homelite trimmer that's 12 years old and runs fine. Cuz I use my Stihl 110 all the time.


----------



## chowdozer (Feb 25, 2008)

Just Mow said:


> Is he dropping them for his new friend Woodie.LOL



Might be part of the bonding experience.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 25, 2008)

Night All


----------



## COLD_IRON (Feb 25, 2008)

I just went out and looked at the Mantis I use very infrequently.

1 tine broken off, about 15-20 bent. I can flex the tines a little by hand, but I can't actually bend the tines back and forth.

I don't like how the unit itself balances and to me that style of tiller feels clumsy. I prefer the type of tillers where you have wheels in the front and tines in the rear. 

I don't use it much anymore because I just cheat and use the backhoe if I need to take out some sod or whatever.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> yeah just because they say that the echo has a 21.2 commercial grade motor doesn't mean it is commerical. That home owner stihl will out run that echo any way. As for the stihl tines not being guaranteed for life.Thats because the cost of replacement tines for the mantis are already built into the price on the initial purchase. Ok i'll end it for mr. Whiskey
> Tango
> Foxtrot
> 
> this whole thread is opinionated. did you have to use the word TANGO



durrr...

All ECHO built powerheads are built to commercial standards, The homeowner level Stihl motor will be long burnt up by the time the Echo is ready for it's first carb overhaul.

How can you figure the cost of replacement tines are built into the price of the mantis? I gotta ask...did it hurt when you pulled that statement out of your azz?


----------



## chowdozer (Feb 25, 2008)

Just Mow said:


> Night All



Have a good night's sleep. I gotta catch a plane tomorrow so it's light's out for me too.


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

Just Mow said:


> Woodie, go to an Echo/Stihl dealer and try to bend the tines. If you can't bend the tines with one hand on the Mantis then I guess you are a little girl.
> Let me know, okay Louise.




Your knowledge of metallurgy is not high, is it, sawitall?

Since when would rigidity/ductility be an indicator of longevity? As a general rule, the more rigid the steel/iron, the more brittle. Ever wonder why decent modern woodworking planes are made of ductile iron instead of gray? I'll give you a hint...drop an old Stanley on the concrete...


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 25, 2008)

I gotta look tomorrow .....I think we still have a broken mantis in the shed....


----------



## Woodie (Feb 25, 2008)

Goodnight, gentlemen...I'm off to bed as well.

It was a pleasure whoppin you all this evening!


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 25, 2008)

Woodie said:


> Goodnight, gentlemen...I'm off to bed as well.
> 
> It was a pleasure whoppin you all this evening!






THALL kicks your butt all the time.............




.


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 25, 2008)

Well before i go to bed i'll answer that question for you.I'll put it in these terms when you go to a free hotel and it says free internet its actually built into the price already. When its comes to costs for Mantis like most other companies. When they are adding a extra benefit to the consumer . They most likely already charged you in the initial price or they make up for it in shipping. I never said their tines were garbage, but they say free replacement as a marketing scheme. Its a selling point for them. so to compensate for every set of tines that break (everything breaks sooner or later regardless). they will not be losing money because they have already worked that amount out for replacement in the cost of the tiller already.I'll try to defend the homeowner stihl tomorrow. nite


----------



## yungman (Feb 25, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> This is like arguing whether Minnesota or Wisconsin has bigger mosquitos...
> 
> 
> All machines in these classes are pathetic toys for toy gardeners. Get real.
> ...



That little thing may be more useful than you think!! Watch the video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qU7kUDcOhiU

Of course, it will not replace the real thing, but for less than 30lb and you can fit in the back of your truck and pull it out with one hand. It can be handy. It has it's row, goes where no he man tiller can go!!!!! Just like a little bug!!!!:hmm3grin2orange: 

I'll leave it to the expert to argue about which one is the best and I'll get that one:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 

I don't think I can stop the fights so I am just going to enjoy. You have one!!! throw my way!!!


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 25, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> I've had a mantis for about 12 years now. It's a great machine for cultivating.
> 
> I till the main garden(corn and melons) with a 25 year old Troy bilt Horse.
> 
> The 750sq. ft. of raised vegetable beds are done by hand.






Long live the Horse!!!!!!!!!!!





.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 25, 2008)

Yeah...weak motors..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QMF255e0NzY&feature=related


----------



## treeclimber jul (Feb 26, 2008)

*Cat and dog name calling fight*

 I have a mantis in our shed and it dose not work, It worked for a little while but never ran very good. Never used a stihl so can't say anything about it. 
I can say that the Mantis is NOT what its cracked up to be


----------



## spacemule (Feb 26, 2008)

Just Mow said:


> You know as well as I that if it is a true warranty it will occur in a very short period of time. The purpose of the Echo 5yr was to appease Home Depot.


If that's the case, then why does Stihl not have a decent warranty time period? After all, the only warranty work, according to you, happens quickly.


----------



## Pissfirwillie (Feb 26, 2008)

The "Tomato" farmers around here swear by the Mantis tillers. I didn't even know Stihl made a little tiller. If Stihl makes anything, you better assume they put the engineering into it. I think most would agree that Stihl always tries to improve on designs over time.


----------



## yungman (Feb 26, 2008)

eyolf said:


> You guys are a hoot.
> 
> I have a Stihl mini-tiller, and it works. I have nothing bad to say about the Mantis, except that two local dealers carry them, keep one in stock, but were both more enthusiastic about Stihl and Honda.
> 
> Besides, the original poster was asking if a mini-tiller would double as an aerator. I doubt if that's the same as picking a fight.



I only walk away for 2 hours and come back to find out 3 more pages of name calling!!!! Yes, I just asked a very innocent question!!!

I am just reading all this to get a good laugh:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 26, 2008)

spacemule said:


> If that's the case, then why does Stihl not have a decent warranty time period? After all, the only warranty work, according to you, happens quickly.



Because they don't need it? less then 1 claim per 1000 units, and most of those are tiny issues that occur early in usage. And I doubt Husky or Echo rates are any differnet.


Like with many products, the lower market share brand offer the "best warranties".. because that's all they can offer to the uninformed to differentiate themselves. Ever looked at S O N Y warranties?


----------



## spacemule (Feb 26, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Because they don't need it? less then 1 claim per 1000 units, and most of those are tiny issues that occur early in usage. And I doubt Husky or Echo rates are any differnet.
> 
> 
> Like with many products, the lower market share brand offer the "best warranties".. because that's all they can offer to the uninformed to differentiate themselves. Ever looked at ####s warranties?



You're not directly answering. If all warranty claims happen early on, why does Stihl have a short warranty? It shouldn't make a difference. 

The fact that they can still sell with a crappy warranty is irrelevant if extending the warranty won't make a difference in claims. If, however, it will make a different in claims, then just mow's statement is wrong. Do you follow?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 26, 2008)

NMope.. your arguement is weak, at best Stihl doesn't need it to sell their product - the reputation sells it. If Stihl thought they lost material sales to echo because of it, the'yd go for 5, then echo would have to go for 10...


1 and 2 years (homowners) isn't a short warranty... pro's could care less.


I think I've had 3 customers on the past 3 years that asked about the warranty... Outside of AS, nobody seems to care!


----------



## spacemule (Feb 26, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> NMope.. your arguement is weak, at best Stihl doesn't need it to sell their product - the reputation sells it. If Stihl thought they lost material sales to echo because of it, the'yd go for 5, then echo would have to go for 10...
> 
> 
> 1 and 2 years (homowners) isn't a short warranty... pro's could care less.
> ...



So, once again, if it makes no difference, why not offer it? The _only _logical answer is it does make a difference.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 26, 2008)

Because my dear friend, they would look as silly as the others then! It actually sets a false expection in the minds of the consumer that the dealer has to "deal with" - "hey, my damn saw is only three years old and it won't start (because I left gas in it for a year or so)!" etc etc.. Hang around an Echo service counter in the spring as listen to the techs tell them "that's not covered". 

Why don't you email Stihl and ask them?



And, if by some remote chance you were right, and it does matter, how come they own the pro market?? opcorn: oh, that's right, the pro's don't care... because they are informed


----------



## spacemule (Feb 26, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Because my dear friend, they would look as silly as the others then! It actually sets a false expection in the minds of the consumer that the dealer has to "deal with" - "hey, my damn saw is only three years old and it won't start (because I left gas in it for a year or so)!" etc etc.. Hang around an Echo service counter in the spring as listen to the techs tell them "that's not covered".



So, what you're saying is that Stihl doesn't give a comparable warranty because they don't want to turn down claims, right?


----------



## yungman (Feb 26, 2008)

I agree that longer warrentee do not mean the product is better, last longer. In fact in is always been the case in auto that the companies that initially have reliability issue are more likely to offer extended warrentee. Eg. Hyndai and maybe Crysler?? The main thing behind this is to give customer confidence to buy their products while they are trying to improve. The key point is they are trying to improve. This is a way to build confidence. I think it is a good thing.

I myself always go for the longest warrentee in pratice if the two products are similar in quality. The reason mainly because things do go wrong. In fact I pay extra for extended warrentee on a lot of things I bought. For electronics, like TV, VCRs, computers, I save money by buying floor samples and get the extended warrentee. I can speak for electronics, they fail when they decided to fail, no reason of any, this is my experience with years in the field. Did I used my extended warrentees!! Put it this way, they are not ahead!!!

I know for pro, down time is the most important issue. I agree good service, quick turn is the most important. For consummer like most of us, we can affort to have down time, long warrentee means we don't have to pay to fix or buy new one become important. I am consider buying Maruyama hedge trimmer now because I found out they give 5 years warrentee even to commercial. I know their parts are hard to get. But I also know that I can wait. So it really depend on what point of view. Consummer market is a bigger market than commercial so, I think it does make sense to give extended warrentee.


----------



## Kogafortwo (Feb 26, 2008)

yungman said:


> ... the companies that initially have reliability issue are more likely to offer extended warrentee. Eg. Hyndai and maybe Crysler??



_ESPECIALLY_ Chrysler.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 26, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> durrr...
> 
> All ECHO built powerheads are built to commercial standards, The homeowner level Stihl motor will be long burnt up by the time the Echo is ready for it's first carb overhaul.
> 
> How can you figure the cost of replacement tines are built into the price of the mantis? I gotta ask...did it hurt when you pulled that statement out of your azz?



Durrrr, you crack me up with your statements.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 26, 2008)

spacemule said:


> If that's the case, then why does Stihl not have a decent warranty time period? After all, the only warranty work, according to you, happens quickly.



Who wants to give someone like you a longer warranty. You would understand what is warranty and what isn't and bring it to me in five years pissed off because it has been sitting for two of those five with fuel in it. Then all of the sudden you become my disgruntled customer and not the manufacturers who imposed the warranty that you did not read and understand.

That clear it up for ya.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 26, 2008)

There is an echo in this room


----------



## spacemule (Feb 26, 2008)

Just Mow said:


> Who wants to give someone like you a longer warranty. You would understand what is warranty and what isn't and bring it to me in five years pissed off because it has been sitting for two of those five with fuel in it. Then all of the sudden you become my disgruntled customer and not the manufacturers who imposed the warranty that you did not read and understand.
> 
> That clear it up for ya.



So, what you're saying is that Stihl doesn't like warrantying their products against legitimate warranty issues because they'll have some illegitimate claims. opcorn:


----------



## yungman (Feb 26, 2008)

Guys, if you think Stihl warrentee is not good enough, get Echo or particular Maruyama. Maruyama give 5 years commercial warrentee!!!

You guys really think there are such a big difference amount the top brands? Or you guys just like to fight it out!!!!:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 26, 2008)

Of course there is a difference in top brands, why is the worlds #1 brand of chainsaw not sold at home depot or lowes. and i know there are more home depot and lowes than stihl dealers.Thats just the way it is. So there must be a difference.


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 26, 2008)

To a consumer...you know, the people that buy things..If Im looking at equipment and one brand says:

Im confident that for 5 years, Ill cover this this and this if it breaks...Ill also warranty the ignition and drive cable for the lifetime of the machine. If you use it commercially, Ill cover those parts are 2 years.

Then I go to another brand, and their confidence level is only at 2 years for residential, and 1 year commercial...Then I can only assume that brand A beleives in their product more, so much more that they are willing to put their money where their mouth is.


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 26, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> To a consumer...you know, the people that buy things..If Im looking at equipment and one brand says:
> 
> Im confident that for 5 years, Ill cover this this and this if it breaks...Ill also warranty the ignition and drive cable for the lifetime of the machine. If you use it commercially, Ill cover those parts are 2 years.
> 
> Then I go to another brand, and their confidence level is only at 2 years for residential, and 1 year commercial...Then I can only assume that brand A beleives in their product more, so much more that they are willing to put their money where their mouth is.



Well to a consumer if they look at a truck suppose dodge says lifetime power train warranty and then i go to another brand like chevy with confidence only for 5 years 100,000 miles. It doesn't mean that dodge believes in its product more. Its means they need something to sell it more. really i could care less about warranties there nice you know your covered but sometimes aren't necessary.


----------



## Urbicide (Feb 26, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> Of course there is a difference in top brands, why is the worlds #1 brand of chainsaw not sold at home depot or lowes. and i know there are more home depot and lowes than stihl dealers.Thats just the way it is. So there must be a difference.



Just wanted to let you know that we have a lot more Stihl dealers in Cincinnati than we have Home Depot's and Lowe's. opcorn:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 26, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> Then I go to another brand, and their confidence level is only at 2 years for residential, and 1 year commercial...Then I can only assume that brand A beleives in their product more, so much more that they are willing to put their money where their mouth is.




If you went to Marketing 101, they'd explain to you that you have it backwards... the long warranty is just trying to mitigate the LACK of consumer confidence in the product.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 26, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> If you went to Marketing 101, they'd explain to you that you have it backwards... the long warranty is just trying to mitigate the LACK of consumer confidence in the product.




But his rep told him .....Oh never mind....


----------



## Urbicide (Feb 26, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> If you went to Marketing 101, they'd explain to you that you have it backwards... the long warranty is just trying to mitigate the LACK of consumer confidence in the product.



Double-reverse psychology? :monkey:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 26, 2008)

yep, but Red trebles it, and ends up back at the beginning...:greenchainsaw:


----------



## Urbicide (Feb 26, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> yep, but Red trebles it, and ends up back at the beginning...:greenchainsaw:


----------



## RED-85-Z51 (Feb 26, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> Well to a consumer if they look at a truck suppose dodge says lifetime power train warranty and then i go to another brand like chevy with confidence only for 5 years 100,000 miles. It doesn't mean that dodge believes in its product more. Its means they need something to sell it more. really i could care less about warranties there nice you know your covered but sometimes aren't necessary.



One thing about Dodge Warrantys...

In 1998 My parents bought a new Ram 1500. We got the Extended(75K mile) warranty.

In that warranty dodge replaced free of charge 1 transmission, 2 complete differentials, and 1 complete A/C system, 1 speed sensor, 1 brake caliper, and some other stuff.

It ticked over 190,000 tonight on the way home..and since 75K has been trouble free accept a water pump I had to have replaced 2 days ago. 

Now...If it wasnt for that warranty, Id have a terrible outlook on Dodge equipment...but we ended up wayyy ahead on this deal.

Likewise...on an Echo. If it's a major component, and it's going ot fail, you got 5 years to uncover it. On a Stihl..you only have 2.


----------



## 04ultra (Feb 26, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> One thing about Dodge Warrantys...
> 
> In 1998 My parents bought a new Ram 1500. We got the Extended(75K mile) warranty.
> 
> ...






Damn that Dodge sure needed a big warranty.....I hope most Dodges are better than yours...LOL




Darn near a complete truck replacement.....


----------



## yungman (Feb 26, 2008)

Guys, all this are just marketing!!! You have a bunch of die hard Stihl guys, so Stihl don't have to do it!!!! For brands that want to steal some market from Stihl, they have to use some gimmic!!!!

I like extended warrentee, but I truely don't believe they are better. I just take advantage of the promotion. Like Red said, he got new transmission and all on the truck, thats good for him, he save money!!!! Is Crysler good?....NO!!! But it sure make me look at them twice. To me is a show of their attempt to improve their product. Sometime you safe money by taking a chance. 

I remember in 1983, everyone were crazy buying Japanese cars ( still are to a less extend) American cars were consider inferior ( much better now). I went and make a deal on a Ford Mustang GT, I got very good deal, Out the door for about $11K with T-top, air and all. The car turn out to be a hit and people can't get nearly a good deal like mine anymore. Their is a lot of truth in going for the up and coming with good deal.

Far as I concern on equipment, I would seriously look at Maruyama because of their warrentee, they are the underdog, chances are they will have better pricing, better warrentee. More people buy, they will have more support in the future. All marketing. That is how I play it.


----------



## Just Mow (Feb 26, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> Likewise...on an Echo. If it's a major component, and it's going ot fail, you got 5 years to uncover it.
> 
> Way to answer your own question. So on the Echo it's not a matter of if it fails but when it fails. No wonder they need that warranty. Maybe it'snot marketing after all.LOL


----------



## Woodie (Feb 27, 2008)

Urbicide said:


> Just wanted to let you know that we have a lot more Stihl dealers in Cincinnati than we have Home Depot's and Lowe's. opcorn:



You're not kidding...those things breed like rats...


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 27, 2008)

Urbicide said:


> Just wanted to let you know that we have a lot more Stihl dealers in Cincinnati than we have Home Depot's and Lowe's. opcorn:



I meant nationwide for Stihl vs home depot and lowes. As for the dodge trucks red i just used that as an example. I guess your parents just got a lemon like i got a lemon echo product once. Warranties can change your opinion on a product i will agree. Some companies even build products just good enough that they last until the warranty is up. kind of like kia (echo) w/ 6 year 100,000. Others give a warranty like honda (Stihl) when they had their 3 year 36,000. You already know which is the better product, but are you really going to allow another company with a inferior product put your mind at ease just because they have a better warranty. Do you get what im saying?


----------



## yungman (Feb 27, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> I meant nationwide for Stihl vs home depot and lowes. As for the dodge trucks red i just used that as an example. I guess your parents just got a lemon like i got a lemon echo product once. Warranties can change your opinion on a product i will agree. Some companies even build products just good enough that they last until the warranty is up. kind of like kia (echo) w/ 6 year 100,000. Others give a warranty like honda (Stihl) when they had their 3 year 36,000. You already know which is the better product, but are you really going to allow another company with a inferior product put your mind at ease just because they have a better warranty. Do you get what im saying?



In all do respect, Echo is better than Kia, Stihl saws and 2 cycle products may compare with Honda cars, 4Mix......They can use some confidence building!!!!


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 27, 2008)

I just used that for a warranty example and to piss red off i know i don't think nothings as bad as kia except the yugo when it was around, theres nothing wrong with the newer 4 mix


----------



## Log Splitter (Feb 27, 2008)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> Then I can only assume that brand A beleives in their product more, so much more that they are willing to put their money where their mouth is.



No, Red, they are willing to put YOUR money where their mouth is.

The cost of the warranty is included in the purchase price of anything. Some never need the service, some get a new transmission for their Dodge, but in the end the purchase price of the product is inflated to cover the cost of the collective warranty work for the population of products sold.

As far as extended warranties go, the company providing the coverage makes money on them or they would not be offered. The guys that buy them and never have a claim get screwed (or get to feel good since they are covered), and the ones that use them receive a benefit after they receive enough 'warranty' work to cover the cost of the coverage plus any deductible. It works like any other kind of insurance. 

I can't believe I read this whole thread. I did not open it for a few days since I don't have a need for a toy tiller, but I got curious after it grew to some many post.


----------



## yungman (Feb 27, 2008)

Log Splitter said:


> No, Red, they are willing to put YOUR money where their mouth is.
> 
> The cost of the warranty is included in the purchase price of anything. Some never need the service, some get a new transmission for their Dodge, but in the end the purchase price of the product is inflated to cover the cost of the collective warranty work for the population of products sold.
> 
> ...



This thread has not been about the little tiller for a long time already! Both me and the little tiller had to take a hike a while back already!!!:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 27, 2008)

so what mini tiller are you partial too after reading this whole thread?


----------



## yungman (Feb 27, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> so what mini tiller are you partial too after reading this whole thread?



That's a good one, I enjoy reading this so much that I forgot to even think about it anymore!!! If all else is so close, I am leaning towards Mantis 4 cycles just mainly because it is quietest. I think Honda 25cc will be close to the Stihl 27cc in power....hopefully. Only thing I miss about Yard Boss is the broom attachment though, I still need to sit on this one.

But don't worry about me here, I am enjoying myself reading all this!!!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Kogafortwo (Feb 27, 2008)

I still want to hear about how the *bloom* attachment works! (See first post in this thread).


Hey Yungman, I use my neighbor's old Mantis that I had to clean up and rebuild the carb on. I like it just fine.

And for anyone who says they don't need a mini-tiller, just get one and start finding uses for it. It's like a blower - you'll find a 100 things it's good for that you never thought of.


----------



## yungman (Feb 28, 2008)

NuConcepts said:


> its a two ring piston on the stihl, you can't compare four strokes and two strokes. If you want the machine in a two stroke get the stihl vs the mantis with the echo motor i had one and the rod bearing seized out of no where and i had the right mix in the pos. The stihl will have more torque. I've used all three. I personally like the Honda mini tiller it didn't seem to have no problems what so ever and was responsive and durable being a 4 stroke. It revved until my heart was content and if home depot rents them i think its a mantis and it has a Honda motor on it believe me they take abuse and hold up. As for the stihl i have a fs 45 weed wacker which is the same motor on the tiller that i beat the hell out of for 3 seasons straight. It has never failed to start and produces alot of torque for a 27.2 cc motor.Besides that parts are easy to get for it, if i ever need them. so it all depends on your opinion in the end if your a four stroke guy or a 2 stroke guy. hope this helps



I agree, my option now is really between 4 cycle Mantis or 2 cycle Yard Boss. Anyone use the Homescaper engine equipment for commercial use? I know Stihl 2 cycle is very good, but is it fare to compare to Honda GX25 being ground up as commercial engine. Am I asking too much on the Homescaper engine. Too bad Stihl don't put the FS85 engine into the YardBoss, I won't even post this if they have the commercial engine!!!!

Anyone have the parts diagram of the Stihl engine that can post for me?

Thanks


----------



## NuConcepts (Feb 28, 2008)

i'll try to get you a break down but let me put it this way look at all the pro's well at least round that have the regular stihl leaf blowers like the bg55 and bg 85s. they seem to last. thats the same motor on the stihl yard boss. My trimmer motor seems to hold up with the same motor. but then i know a two people that had catastrophic failures with theres. i think it was because they like running the cheapest oil they can by for the mix though.I kind of like the honda just because of their motors but i just don't like the idea of checking and changing the oil. I guess im lazy


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 29, 2008)

yungman said:


> Too bad Stihl don't put the FS85 engine into the YardBoss, I won't even post this if they have the commercial engine!!!!
> 
> Anyone have the parts diagram of the Stihl engine that can post for me?
> 
> Thanks



Groan... Commercial? that's "echo speak". The MM55 is basically the same engine as FS85... Physically different but identical construction and materials... They even use the same rings and bearings. Ignore what you hear as rumors on the other sites...


----------



## yungman (Feb 29, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Groan... Commercial? that's "echo speak". The MM55 is basically the same engine as FS85... Physically different but identical construction and materials... They even use the same rings and bearings. Ignore what you hear as rumors on the other sites...



What do you mean??!!! That is exciting to hear!! Do you mean the internal components are same as in FS85? The cylinder, crankcase, piston and cranksheft are of same material? Why there is a difference in power?

I did not hear anything bad from anywhere about the engine, I just read in Stihl catalog that it is the Homescaper engine, that is the reason why I assume it is only a consumer grade engine. I did read some people use the Homescaper trimmers commercially and complain when they don't last!!! They did not say the engine were the problem, it could be anything.

Do you have the parts diagram?

Anyone know how loud of this compare with Honda?

Thanks


----------



## Lakeside53 (Feb 29, 2008)

Yes.. and the piston is the same as used in the BG85.


----------



## yungman (Feb 29, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Yes.. and the piston this the same as used in the BG85.



THanks


----------



## pgg (Feb 29, 2008)

Extended warranties mean nothing, warranties are just behind the scenes hustling and number-crunching from the paper-shufflers and wideboys, based on dollar values, flow charts, the economy, interest rates and god knows what else. Any shifty roguing outfit can throw a longer warranty on a cheapo nasty product, it's all been number crunched and factored in by the marketing wizards. 

Guys like me, doomed to be stuck swinging on chainsaws for a crust, we don't give a rats a$$ about warranties, me and plenty of others can't be f***d going thru all the dramas of claims, counterclaims, filling in forms and all the rest of the BS involved with buying cheap. Meanwhile I'm on my a$$ with a knackered saw losin' money. All I want is the best available machine you can get, in the real world money is the bottom line, if you want the best you gotta dish out the dollars, regardless of long warranties, short warranties or whatever. 

The product earns it's reputation out in the field, talking stihls, huskys, dolmars here. Gimmicks and fancy deals are never genuine, it's con-artist territory, eg.. "Here's a super-duper deal, it's only HALF PRICE and it's got a LONGER WARRANTY!" Yeah right... there's a fool born every second..


----------



## yungman (Feb 29, 2008)

pgg said:


> Extended warranties mean nothing, warranties are just behind the scenes hustling and number-crunching from the paper-shufflers and wideboys, based on dollar values, flow charts, the economy, interest rates and god knows what else. Any shifty roguing outfit can throw a longer warranty on a cheapo nasty product, it's all been number crunched and factored in by the marketing wizards.
> 
> Guys like me, doomed to be stuck swinging on chainsaws for a crust, we don't give a rats a$$ about warranties, me and plenty of others can't be f***d going thru all the dramas of claims, counterclaims, filling in forms and all the rest of the BS involved with buying cheap. Meanwhile I'm on my a$$ with a knackered saw losin' money. All I want is the best available machine you can get, in the real world money is the bottom line, if you want the best you gotta dish out the dollars, regardless of long warranties, short warranties or whatever.
> 
> The product earns it's reputation out in the field, talking stihls, huskys, dolmars here. Gimmicks and fancy deals are never genuine, it's con-artist territory, eg.. "Here's a super-duper deal, it's only HALF PRICE and it's got a LONGER WARRANTY!" Yeah right... there's a fool born every second..



I agree, as I stated in the post before. When your lifelyhood depends on it, time is money, no warrentee can compensate the lost of the tool. 

I also see on the consumer side though, as I stated, we can wait, it is not life and death for us, so extended warrentee is attractive. It work both ways. I think both side is right. 

Also another point is, we also talk about equipments other than chain saw too. I think nobody even question Stihl on chain saw ( no idea of Husky or Dolmars). On other equipments like string trimmers, blowers and hedge trimmers, there are other that are good too. For example Echo trimmers have a better chance comparing with Stihl trimmer than Echo saws with Stihl saw. Redmax is famous for their blowers etc. I think it is more important to compare apple to apple. I guess in this forum, it is about saw so I can understand. Stihl is the one!!!

I think if people take into consideration of comparing apple to apple, their will be less arguments. But then it won't be that interesting!!:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 

I have to say I enjoy this thread!!


----------



## Erick (Apr 21, 2008)

Goob, I believe your post’s were relevant on both threads and would think your opinion on the subject would be valued on both treads as well. 

Space, I don't see how his post's could be construed as Spam, he was not trying to sell anything and was not trying to disrupt the tread, he was merely giving first hand experience that directly related to the subject, I thought that's what this forum was about???


----------

