# Spur Climbing



## Robin Wood (Aug 20, 2014)

Hi guys Im new to this site, just wanna ask the pro's if this video of climbing correct or not ?
I find that the lesser the distance between my hips and the trunk the more gaff penetration i get, but his video says otherwise.
In a sense that climber will gaff out if they lean too close to the trunk.


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## Guran (Aug 20, 2014)

If you are too close to the stem it is easier to gaff out. So you should not be "hugging the stem" so to speak.
It is also hard to to do any saw work if youré too close.


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## Robin Wood (Aug 20, 2014)

Guran said:


> If you are too close to the stem it is easier to gaff out. So you should not be "hugging the stem" so to speak.
> It is also hard to to do any saw work if youré too close.



Not too close though, maybe a good 1~1.5ft away frm the trunk i guess ??? 
I've gaffed out couple times and all of em' were because of leaning away from the trunk too much.
How do you deal with "Rodeo" when you remove a heavy limb or trunk on top.
Do you keep yourself close to the trunk or away from it ?


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 20, 2014)

Keep your knees OUT, away from the tree.


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 20, 2014)

Most of the time we have very little "rodeo" due to the way we make the cuts and work the ropes, but if something goes wrong and I anticipate a little ride I lean back and try to stiff arm the spar.


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 20, 2014)

Once you start that back cut, _don't slow down!_


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## miko0618 (Aug 20, 2014)

most newby spike mistakes I see is bending the knees. and I leave the hinge until i see the piece was guided enough and then i cut more. sometimes i leave a thicker hinge tear off because i am falling something in a less than natural direction. you will get a little sway from that. nothing can jolt you like rigging though. especially natural crotch without letting it run. with a block you don't have big falls before the stop. natural crotch rigging can do that though.


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 21, 2014)

The narrower you make the notch the less push the part coming off will impart to the stem.
The wider the notch the more the top will lean before breaking off and that is what pushes the stem sideways.
We refer to it as the jump cut, most folks call a variation of it the box notch.
Sometimes a little slope cut is made on the stump edge of the notch.


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## Robin Wood (Aug 21, 2014)

very interesting, keep em' coming. learning alot new stuffs frm u guys !!!


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 21, 2014)

The 'little slope' is called a snipe and can help to steer the top one way or the other (if off center), along with allowing it to land closer to the base of the tree.

The bending of the tree is called (G F Beranek) the catapult affect. The slower you make the back cut, the greater the affect will be.


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## miko0618 (Aug 21, 2014)

Theres more. If you are taking tops with that much weight or in a tree with that much lean, you should be making kerf cuts and choking the tree as well.


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 21, 2014)

What does choking the tree mean?

I know what a kerf cut is. Why? You're saying to use no underbed?


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## miko0618 (Aug 21, 2014)

Choke the tree with multiple lanyard wraps or with your lifeline. Incase it splits.


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 21, 2014)

If it splits, then you're going to be pulled into the tree and injured. If you think the tree is gonna barber chair then you need to either A) climb higher and take a smaller piece or B) remove some of the limbs that is making the tree so heavy.

And I still don't understand why you say to use a kerf cut, unless you mean the back cut, which IS a kerf cut, and in that case that's a redundant point to make.


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## miko0618 (Aug 21, 2014)

MasterBlaster said:


> If it splits, then you're going to be pulled into the tree and injured




Thats why you wrap the tree under the cut


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 21, 2014)

Up I give.


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## miko0618 (Aug 21, 2014)

Yeah i dont know whats hard to understand about that. Its 101 in my opinion


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## no tree to big (Aug 21, 2014)

If that ***** gonna split where I have my lanyard Im gonna find a new place to put it! Or u can clip both ends of your lanyard to the same d ring so u don't get smooshed
But odds are u can change your cut or do what a climber does and make the tree not split and kill u


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## miko0618 (Aug 21, 2014)

Its a precaution.


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 21, 2014)

It's something, alright.


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## miko0618 (Aug 21, 2014)

I wonder if some folks on here even cut trees for a living


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 21, 2014)

OH BOY!!


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## no tree to big (Aug 21, 2014)

Haha if u cut trees for a living and u got **** smooshing u u should quite ur day job


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## miko0618 (Aug 21, 2014)

I've never had anything smooshing me. I work safe and dont take chances.


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## miko0618 (Aug 21, 2014)

You guys can mock me if you see fit. I really dont care. You guys are tree psychics that can predict everything. I cant say with 100 % certainty that i can detect every tree defect. Or even every reaction. So i use precaution. I hope the op uses precaution instead of arrogance while aloft.


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 21, 2014)

Wrapping your lanyard like that is taking a BIG chance


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 21, 2014)

I remember, after my first year. I was an expert!!! 

It wasn't long after that when I had my first cut, then my first fall...


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## miko0618 (Aug 21, 2014)

How is wrapping your lanyard around a big chance? It prevents you from being crushed should a split occur.

And yeah, i can see why you would cut yourself and fall.


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## miko0618 (Aug 21, 2014)

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/split-crush-death-while-blocking-down.85878/


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 21, 2014)

I thought THAT is what you were doing.....nevermind carry on...


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 21, 2014)

miko0618 said:


> i can see why you would cut yourself and fall.


 
Really? Please, tell me more. I don't want to hurt myself... school me!


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## miko0618 (Aug 21, 2014)

MasterBlaster said:


> Really? Please, tell me more. I don't want to hurt myself... school me!


Nah... i'll just let you go on knowing it all. I am too busy to deal with such arrogance.


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 21, 2014)

That sounds good to me, brother!


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 21, 2014)

I sometimes double wrap my strap/lanyard when working on a small stem, and have had a stem or three split on me. On none of them was I double wrapped and suppose they might have broke the lanyard if they had been set up like that.
Anyway I didn't get squished, every time there was enough space between me and the tree that all I felt was a little jerk and got pulled a little closer to the trunk. None of them showed the slightest sign they were going to split, if they had I would have wrapped the stem with something more substantial than my lanyard. I have to say it is a very rare thing with me and those I have worked with.
I think the splits occurred because of wind shakes, all were in tall fairly straight trees with no large limbs near where the split happened.


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 21, 2014)

miko0618 said:


> Nah... i'll just let you go on knowing it all. I am too busy to deal with such arrogance.


 Don't hate me cuz I'm awesome!


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## miko0618 (Aug 22, 2014)

MasterBlaster said:


> Don't hate me cuz I'm awesome!


I think your defenses would diminish if you got whats on your chest off once and for all. 

Come out of the closet.


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## yarightdawg (Aug 22, 2014)

no tree to big said:


> If that ***** gonna split where I have my lanyard Im gonna find a new place to put it! Or u can clip both ends of your lanyard to the same d ring so u don't get smooshed
> But odds are u can change your cut or do what a climber does and make the tree not split and kill u


People die like this
Tree splits and your lanyard in 500 lbs of force ducking me into stem not sure how long I can hold my breath


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## yarightdawg (Aug 22, 2014)

yarightdawg said:


> People die like this
> Tree splits and your lanyard in 500 lbs of force ducking me into stem not sure how long I can hold my breath


If you mean use a series of ratchet straps I agree but to use your lanyard don't you think force and weight of this top can hurt you


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## Matt81 (Aug 26, 2014)

miko0618 said:


> I wonder if some folks on here even cut trees for a living



Ha Ha, Yeah, i went and spent $4000 AUD on climbing gear and saws just to look good on a postage stamp size pic so i will get more respect on AS!!  Makes perfect sense to me.



miko0618 said:


> Choke the tree with multiple lanyard wraps or with your lifeline. Incase it splits.





KenJax Tree said:


> Wrapping your lanyard like that is taking a BIG chance





MasterBlaster said:


> If it splits, then you're going to be pulled into the tree and injured. If you think the tree is gonna barber chair then you need to either A) climb higher and take a smaller piece or B) remove some of the limbs that is making the tree so heavy. And I still don't understand why you say to use a kerf cut, unless you mean the back cut, which IS a kerf cut, and in that case that's a redundant point to make.



Aint no way i am gonna be doing that with my lanyard. Makes no sense. If you think it is going to have a good chance of splitting why double wrap your lanyard tighter so you are closer in and then cut it anyway??
I have used ratchet straps or a high grade rated chain for things like this before but not on something i was attached to when cutting. Using a strong ratchet strap or chain has gotta be a better setup than using your own lanyard that you are attached to. By double wrapping it is only the friction of the wraps that are trying to stop the split expanding. When it splits it will expand your wraps and pull you into the tree anyway.

Yes we cannot see every defect or know every detail about every part of a tree. There is a reason that this is the worlds most dangerous job after all. There are many things as mentioned by MasterBlaster that can be done to reduce the risk of it barber chairing. If you are still that worried that it is going to split, that it makes you use your own lanyard to try to stop it happening, sorry but in my mind it is a misguided attempt at taking an extra redundant precaution. It it splits and you are clipped in to the trunk it doesn't really matter how your lanyard is wrapped. If it is double wrapped its just gonna be all over quicker.

People read stories or hear a conversation about what if this happens or what if that happens, and they suddenly realise how dangerous this job is and become the prophet of taking every precaution. If a tree splits like that its gonna be real bad no matter how you wrap your lanyard. If double wrapping to prevent a split makes you sleep better at night good for you. I'm sorry but this might be 101 in your head, but hopefully that is the only place it stays.


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## miko0618 (Aug 26, 2014)

Why would you wrap it without adjusting it? Why would you end up closer? And how would it be over quicker that way? You are adding resistance to the split. Who would make a cut thinking its going to split? So yeah with this child level of logic you might have spent money on gear to look good on AS. $4000 doesnt even get you in the business.


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## B Harrison (Sep 1, 2014)

Ha Ha, Yes that climbing technique is correct. I have read somewhere about wrapping a tree with a lanyard, but I too, feel like its a bad call. It would tighten you up, in most cases because you don't have that much extra lanyard, and would slow your descent in an emergency. If you had a steel core flip line then it might be strong enough, but in most cases wouldn't it be better bore the tree or take other measures to prevent a reaction. A chain, or the end of your bull rope.......a sling with a wrap and a tucked tail would also be quick and have no attachment to you.


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## miko0618 (Sep 1, 2014)

B Harrison said:


> Ha Ha, Yes that climbing technique is correct. I have read somewhere about wrapping a tree with a lanyard, but I too, feel like its a bad call. It would tighten you up, in most cases because you don't have that much extra lanyard, and would slow your descent in an emergency. If you had a steel core flip line then it might be strong enough, but in most cases wouldn't it be better bore the tree or take other measures to prevent a reaction. A chain, or the end of your bull rope.......a sling with a wrap and a tucked tail would also be quick and have no attachment to you.


You are confusing 2 separate decisions. One decision is to wrap the tree with your excess lanyard length in a timber hitch fashion. Your tree positioning wouldnt be compromised. The other decision you are joining with this is to wrap your lanyard up even if it means sacrificing your work position by bringing you in closer. I dont know whats less intelligent, wrapping yourself tight to a tree or not being able to differentiate between the 2 methods. And whats scary is how many times its been said. That there are people cutting trees that dont have the problem solving skills to figure this one out. Just because i am tired of the notifications, i'll explain this real simple like.

Your lanyard is standard and the tree splits crushing you. You are not spiking down. You are not rappelling. You are now trapped. The tree split was met with zero resistance therefor you are met with full impact. 

Your lanyard is double wrapped in a timber hitch fashion. The tree splits. The harder the tree pushes against the lanyard the more effective the hitch. This could allow enough resistance to prevent the tree from splitting enough to crush you. If it does break the lanyard, you fall to your lifeline and live another day. 

To mock a measure of precaution is to mock education that keeps us alive. The same educational advaces that make it safer now than ever.


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## nandoz (Sep 1, 2014)

There are a lot of guys here that have been up a lot more trees than I have. When you are tied in there is nowhere to run from a bad cut. Master the techniques from the ground before trying it 50ft in the air. I have never had one split on me while tied in. I have taken down a few White Ash trees with some pretty big bark inclusions. Keep your rigging gear and climbing gear separate.


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 1, 2014)

We did this one last week....would you double wrap it?


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## miko0618 (Sep 1, 2014)

KenJax Tree said:


> We did this one last week....would you double wrap it?


No


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## treebilly (Sep 4, 2014)

Somewhere in this mess I believe he stated that the lanyard is to be clipped to a single d-ring. This would stop the crush and if it breaks you're back to your climbing line. I've done it a lot on those tall bean pole trees just as a precaution but do what I need to do with my cut to avoid splitting or tearing. I think what he meant by kerf cuts is making shallow cuts perpendicular to your notch to avoid the bark and cambium tear out on the sides. I did ground a climber a few years back for almost crushing himself. He took to big of a piece that split and luckily the saw cut quick enough to get it loose. Made him go to a clearing crew and had him drop everything to learn how to avoid the splitting out.


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