# What Knot Do You Use For Pulling Trees Over?



## StihlRockin' (Nov 4, 2014)

I was taught this knot over 20 years ago and have been using it since. Not sure what it is, but when I use 1/2' rope and there's a heavy pull, sometimes the knot is a bugger to undue. This hardly happens.

I have an idea of what knot I'm going to switch to, however I would like to know which knot you use?

The scenario is after a throw line is used and the pull rope is pulled through, I want to tie a *slip knot* so it cinches back up the line on the tree.

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## KenJax Tree (Nov 4, 2014)

Running bowline


----------



## jefflovstrom (Nov 4, 2014)

Like Chris said,,never fails,,I use a* double bowline*,,
if it ever does I will be the inventor of the 'Triple Running Bowline',,
yup,
Jeff


----------



## KenJax Tree (Nov 4, 2014)

It hasn't failed on me in 18 years


----------



## no tree to big (Nov 4, 2014)

Use a really long rope so u don't need a knot? Just pull on both ends??


----------



## KenJax Tree (Nov 4, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> Like Chris said,,never fails,,I use a* double bowline*,,
> if it ever does I will be the inventor of the 'Triple Running Bowline',,
> yup,
> Jeff


If your double bowline fails, you should just seek retirement.


----------



## CanopyGorilla (Nov 4, 2014)

This reminds me of a lot of your posts. "This thing I am totally a master of but don't really have enough of a grasp on to explain", " so can someone else please tell me what to do without blowing the lid off of the fact that I don't really know ****". Does that make sense?


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 4, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> This reminds me of a lot of your posts. "This thing I am totally a master of but don't really have enough of a grasp on to explain", " so can someone else please tell me what to do without blowing the lid off of the fact that I don't really know ****". Does that make sense?



*Who are you referring to CanopyGorilla?*

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## CanopyGorilla (Nov 4, 2014)

You.


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 4, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> You.



Whatever. Never heard such nonsense. I am happy to see you say that as it shows your character and the type of person you are. Your post makes no sense. I and I'm sure others don't have the patience to put with such remarks, so take your ball and go away. I highly recommend for you that when people post asking questions and are looking for opinions and advice, you stick to the program. Sorry if this offends you Charlie. Just sayin'.

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## pro94lt (Nov 4, 2014)

Wow


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 4, 2014)

Thanks for the replies thus far guys. We use the running bowline for lowering as it's easy and quick to setup and the groundies can undue quickly.

It was the knot I was going to change to and seeing the replies cinches it. LOL! (pun intended)

Take care.

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## jefflovstrom (Nov 4, 2014)

what happened?
Jeff


----------



## pro94lt (Nov 4, 2014)

Never forget the rabbit


----------



## pro94lt (Nov 4, 2014)

It gets scared and jumps


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 4, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> what happened?
> Jeff



Nobody knows! Thank you for your reply.



pro94lt said:


> Never forget the rabbit



Nor the hole and tree. 

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## KenJax Tree (Nov 4, 2014)

It goes around the tree before it goes back in the hole


----------



## jefflovstrom (Nov 4, 2014)

ok, knots it is.
Jeff


----------



## CanopyGorilla (Nov 4, 2014)

While I'm not a newbie why is using spikes for "prune only" a bad thing?


----------



## KenJax Tree (Nov 4, 2014)

I wasn't gonna be the one to mention that


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 4, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> While I'm not a newbie why is using spikes for "prune only" a bad thing?



Frankly I already know the answer or should say I have my own opinions... plus my studies from the certification material I have... along with the most common answers out there... plus all the answers I see from searching the net. Then there's the study manuals and CD-rom material, etc. You know, ANSI, ISA, TCI... So with that said, yeah, I have a good idea of all the typical answers.

However, if one were not to ask other professionals their advice, then one is losing out of the #1 source of receiving reputable answers.

Anyway, that particular question was not for me, but after a number of replies would have taken place, I could show 2 retards in this area that doing prunes using spikes is wrong... and they would see this not from myself, but from other members here.

I'm way ahead of you. I no longer need your input on this particular thread. If perhaps you don't understand what I just wrote here above, I can type s.l.o.w.e.r if that helps.

Sorry, but you got that one wrong, your assumption and the reply.

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## treesmith (Nov 5, 2014)

Tried pruning with spikes once, absolutely useless

went back to using a saw


----------



## moojpg2 (Nov 5, 2014)

Cant we all just get along, not everyone can articulate well in writing. It does not mean they're stupid or don't understand what they're doing.

A running bowline is what ive always used in what im thinking is your application. Knot your having issues with is probly some type of hitch. I know some old timers that rely on the trusty old clove hitch for just about everything you could imagine but in the wrong application i've seen it bind up pretty bad.


----------



## Aldegar (Nov 5, 2014)

I used a running bowline for a long time and to this day I get frustrated tying knots if I am lowering a bunch of stuff so recently I use a steel carabiner for lowering limbs or pulling trees over. So much better!!! The only time I won't use it is catching a top since the straight down angle won't give you the friction needed to hold.


----------



## yarightdawg (Nov 5, 2014)

What about a cow's hitch


----------



## yarightdawg (Nov 5, 2014)

Pulling a tree with a carabiner
Seems risky , unless you just use then once and retire then


----------



## chevybob (Nov 5, 2014)

Your not supposed to use spikes when pruning?




Kidding of course......


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 5, 2014)

moojpg2 said:


> Cant we all just get along, not everyone can articulate well in writing. It does not mean they're stupid or don't understand what they're doing.
> 
> A running bowline is what ive always used in what im thinking is your application. Knot your having issues with is probly some type of hitch. I know some old timers that rely on the trusty old clove hitch for just about everything you could imagine but in the wrong application i've seen it bind up pretty bad.



Ok, to re-say what I said prior, I only come across the issue not frequently, but enough I know there's a better knot and I was thinking of using the running bowline. The knot I was taught years ago worked ok, however I forgot it's name.

And YES!... moojpg2... I totally agree on the _"Cant we all just get along, not everyone can articulate well in writing. It does not mean they're stupid or don't understand what they're doing."_ That's why I try to be clear in what I write so that what I say is clear. Unfortunately "someone" here doesn't care about getting along, instead is comfortable with trying to belittle or cut other's down.

Thank you for your post moojpg2 and others. This ol' guy has to go. Phone and emails to reply to!

Thanks fellas for your help, advice and opinions. Much appreciated.

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## treebilly (Nov 5, 2014)

Running bowline or double bowline here also. Depends on my mood


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 5, 2014)

treebilly said:


> Running bowline or double bowline here also. Depends on my mood



Thanks treebilly for the reply!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To put alcohol on the wound so to speak, I vehicle pulled 2 trees over today with my "experimental" knot not mentioned here and pretty much did a great job...

...making an AXE KNOT! You know what that is? Is the sort of knot you need an AXE to untie. LOL! No more experimentations here boys. Took 15 minutes between both knots to get the ******* untied!  Should have gone to my go-to knot or at least did a running bowline. Ok, I'm stubborn!

Thanks.

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## no tree to big (Nov 5, 2014)

I'm so confused


----------



## chevybob (Nov 6, 2014)

I don't use rope to pull my trunks over I usually just sit around and wait for the proper gust of wind.

Running bowline......


----------



## hopbrau (Nov 6, 2014)

Ladies.... Is there no 'bickering' forum you can join? You are being ridiculous....


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## chevybob (Nov 6, 2014)

hopbrau said:


> Ladies.... Is there no 'bickering' forum you can join? You are being ridiculous....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone



Welcome to the Internet. Enjoy your stay.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Nov 6, 2014)

hopbrau said:


> Ladies.... Is there no 'bickering' forum you can join? You are being ridiculous....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


Its called thick skin, if you don't have it you won't last long here.


----------



## CanopyGorilla (Nov 6, 2014)

StihlRockin' said:


> And YES!... moojpg2... I totally agree on the _"Cant we all just get along, not everyone can articulate well in writing. It does not mean they're stupid or don't understand what they're doing."_ That's why I try to be clear in what I write so that what I say is clear. Unfortunately "someone" here doesn't care about getting along, instead is comfortable with trying to belittle or cut other's down.
> 
> 
> *StihlRockin'*


Oh boy. I'm not here to belittle anyone. I myself have asked beginner questions here. Hell, I haven't been at this trade all that long. I have however put a good bit of blood sweat and humility into getting as good at this work as I possibly can be. Humility being the most important aspect. When I have a question, I ask it. I would say something like this "hey guys, I don't know what knot I should use for this application, can you tell me what you would use?" The reason I responded to this post the way I did is simple. I have noticed that all of your questions come with an insinuation that you already know the answer. Just admit you have a question for people who have more experience than you and you won't run into "belittling". Now you can go ahead and have the last word. That's all I came to say.


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 6, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> I have noticed that _*all*_ of your questions come with an insinuation that you already know the answer.



It's not an insinuation but a fact I already have my own opinions on things... especially when I've been doing it a number of years that has done well for me, but unless I ask questions I won't get answers where I may learn something other than I know now which may be better, faster, more efficient, etc. I let people know upfront my thoughts so they know they are not dealing with a rookie so in that they don't waste their time with the usual newbie stuff and instead maybe write something different that's a bit beyond the learner stage. For you to insinuate that ALL my questions are as you imagine is wrong, false, misinterpreted and misleading... something you have clearly shown you are good at.

I have already proved you wrong with these accusations with my replies.

What you have clearly demonstrated here to me and others is that you don't play nice and are rude, disrespectful and nothing short of being a trouble maker. Imagine if people came here to learn and ask questions and they all get the same stuff that you have demonstrated here? Forum wouldn't last long.

I asked a question and several good fellas took their valuable time to help with their replies, whereas you come out making ridiculous statements and being antagonizing... downright hostile.

You started all this and I'm not going to sit back and let you say **** without hearing back from me.

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## Aldegar (Nov 7, 2014)

yarightdawg said:


> Pulling a tree with a carabiner
> Seems risky , unless you just use then once and retire then



I always put the carabiner on the backside to not take the impact. Essentially, it works the same as a running bowline just way faster. Tying knots is not my strong side as a climber, I can do it but it hurts my brain.


----------



## Jakec7051 (Nov 7, 2014)

In the fire service we went away from using the bowline. At my station we went to using the figure 8 family for everything. Yall say using a steel carabiner is risky. But spend the extra money 35-50 bucks for a NFPA rated carabiner and they are rated around 9000+ pounds and will hold more but they under rate those things for safety reasons. The figure 8 family of knots are easy to tie and even when loaded they are still a breeze 99% of the time to untie if you had to. Just some input from the firefighters side. That maybe yall could try.


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Nov 7, 2014)

I have steel biners on my rigging lines. When I am putting a really heavy load on them i back them up with a half hitch.


----------



## Zale (Nov 7, 2014)

hopbrau said:


> Ladies.... Is there no 'bickering' forum you can join? You are being ridiculous....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone



F you.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Nov 7, 2014)

Zale said:


> F you.


Pretty big balls for his first post


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 7, 2014)

KenJax Tree said:


> Pretty big balls for his first post



Yeah, was thinking that too since he was not in the thread. Had he been here with a horse in the race, I could understand. Hopbrau confronted several of us here, but since he considered all of us "ladies" and not only me, then I knew he wasn't talking about me, but you guys. LOL! JK! JJ! 

But y'all can't blame a guy for sayin' what some of y'all were thinkin'. LOL!

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## hopbrau (Nov 9, 2014)

Sorry, I'll leave...didn't realize it was such a sensitive bunch.
Sorry I hurt feelings


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## BC WetCoast (Nov 9, 2014)

Get a little push back and you run away with your tail between your legs, yapping over your shoulder as you leave.

See ya. Come on back, when you grow a pair.


----------



## miko0618 (Nov 9, 2014)

Its tough to keep everyone on topic. Theres always that guy that wont let things go or just gets up and decides to push buttons on the internet today. Just take it and move on


----------



## miko0618 (Nov 9, 2014)

If you are setting a rope from the ground, a lot of times you cant choke off the top without it catching other limbs. Pulling on those limbs can put torque on your hinge. If you want to choke the top, running bowline. If you cant get a clean choke on it, tie the rope off with a timber, cow hitch or such above the cut. This will retain the proper directional forces.


----------



## no tree to big (Nov 9, 2014)

miko0618 said:


> If you are setting a rope from the ground, a lot of times you cant choke off the top without it catching other limbs. Pulling on those limbs can put torque on your hinge. If you want to choke the top, running bowline. If you cant get a clean choke on it, tie the rope off with a timber, cow hitch or such above the cut. This will retain the proper directional forces.


Can I just use a bowline down at the cut?


----------



## miko0618 (Nov 9, 2014)

no tree to big said:


> Can I just use a bowline down at the cut?


You could. I find that its best to have a knot that once its preloaded it wont slip at all. Nothing like the rope slipping a touch or a twig breaking free when pulling on a sketchy tree.


----------



## sac-climber (Nov 9, 2014)

I don't know about you guys but I use a quadruple whipplestich backed up with two half hitches...I prefer to use dental floss as a pull line also, gotta be unwaxed though. The downside is that this only works well on Tuesdays..


----------



## no tree to big (Nov 9, 2014)

sac-climber said:


> I don't know about you guys but I use a quadruple whipplestich backed up with two half hitches...I prefer to use dental floss as a pull line also, gotta be unwaxed though. The downside is that this only works well on Tuesdays..


As long as I don't die on a Monday or a Friday or the first week of the month Im good with whatever might work


----------



## KenJax Tree (Nov 9, 2014)

hopbrau said:


> Sorry, I'll leave...didn't realize it was such a sensitive bunch.
> Sorry I hurt feelings
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


Its gonna take more than a newb to hurt my feelings....not a sensitive bunch here, we just don't put up with assholes and ********.


----------



## Zale (Nov 9, 2014)

hopbrau said:


> Sorry, I'll leave...didn't realize it was such a sensitive bunch.
> Sorry I hurt feelings
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone



I'm not sensitive nor were my feelings hurt. I just didn't like your tone. Have a nice day.


----------



## Marshy (Nov 9, 2014)

WTF did I just read. Some of ya's need to take a dose of you wife's Midol. 

Anyways, I'm no knot expert or "tree professional" but one knot I like is the figure 8 with a loop or double loop. It can take a lot of load and it's still easy to get undone. Might take more time to tie if you have to tie it repeatedly though.


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 10, 2014)

Del_

That is very interesting, never thought of that. Now for you and any others who would care to comment on that picture and the method...

_*Anyone see any drawbacks to that knot/pull style?*_

I do see a positive and that's when it hard to isolate going over a limb or around the trunk to then set up a slip knot to go to that spot. The pic shows you only have to grab a fork or some spot that is strong and tie off on the bottom.

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## miko0618 (Nov 10, 2014)

StihlRockin' said:


> Del_
> 
> That is very interesting, never thought of that. Now for you and any others who would care to comment on that picture and the method...
> 
> ...


Thats exactly what a said a few posts back


----------



## wood4heat (Nov 10, 2014)

Jakec7051 said:


> In the fire service we went away from using the bowline. At my station we went to using the figure 8 family for everything. The figure 8 family of knots are easy to tie and even when loaded they are still a breeze 99% of the time to untie if you had to. Just some input from the firefighters side. That maybe yall could try.



Ditto, I can tie a figure 8 on a bight faster than a bowline or a figure 8 follow through in about the same amount of time. Both are easy to undo and wont come undone if loaded and unloaded repeatedly. I use figure 8's and clove hitches/ half hitches for just about everything.


----------



## wood4heat (Nov 10, 2014)

Del_ said:


> 25 years in the tree biz and never had a bowline come undone. I could almost as easily had tied a running figure 8 but have never seen the need. The only time I use a figure 8 is a figure 8 follow through for a rock climbing saddle. Tree climbing it's a VT climbing hitch in a spliced eye tress cord and an anchor hitch on a biner. You would not want a figure 8 on a biner due to the slop.



We come from two different professions with two different needs. In the fire service a bowline is not a life safety knot due to the possibility that it could come undone when repeatedly loaded and unloaded. For hoisting tools and such it is fine but then so is a clove hitch in most circumstances. In any rescue situation it's a figure 8, even with a carabiner.


----------



## Marshy (Nov 10, 2014)

wood4heat said:


> We come from two different professions with two different needs. In the fire service a bowline is not a life safety knot due to the possibility that it could come undone when repeatedly loaded and unloaded. For hoisting tools and such it is fine but then so is a clove hitch in most circumstances. In any rescue situation it's a figure 8, even with a carabiner.


 
Yep, thats what they teach us for working at heights and confined space retrieval. YMMV


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 10, 2014)

miko0618 said:


> Thats exactly what a said a few posts back



Oh, I see now:

_*"If you are setting a rope from the ground, a lot of times you cant choke off the top without it catching other limbs. Pulling on those limbs can put torque on your hinge. If you want to choke the top, running bowline. If you cant get a clean choke on it, tie the rope off with a timber, cow hitch or such above the cut. This will retain the proper directional forces."*_

I wasn't sure if that was the same thing we're talking here, but Del_ introduced a picture, whereas when I read your post I skimmed over it and really didn't get the meaning. Thanks for the reply; that helps a lot and I agree.

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## jefflovstrom (Nov 10, 2014)

Now we are all happy!
Jeff


----------



## Jakec7051 (Nov 10, 2014)

wood4heat said:


> We come from two different professions with two different needs. In the fire service a bowline is not a life safety knot due to the possibility that it could come undone when repeatedly loaded and unloaded. For hoisting tools and such it is fine but then so is a clove hitch in most circumstances. In any rescue situation it's a figure 8, even with a carabiner.


Couldn't have said it any better. The Bowline is prone to fail when loaded and unloaded numerous times. The family of 8's when tied right has little to no slop in it. When lowering and hoisting tools a figure 8 on a bite or a clove hitch with some half hitches holds everything. I am a rope tech instructor at my department. And I try not to teach the Bowline the only reason why I do is because my company makes us. But like we said its 2 different industries. I was just throwin out some different points of views due 2+2=4 but so does 3+1. There's a million ways to skin a cat find what works best for you and what your comfy with and stick with it.


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 10, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> Now we are all happy!
> Jeff



LOL! jefflovstrom! Not sure what to think of that knowing you're a bit rough around the edges and our previous "meetings", but I will say if we're thrown in the same fox-hole fighting whatever adversary, I got your 6.

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## miko0618 (Nov 10, 2014)

You can tie a bowline with yosemite and it will never come undone. Its really just 1 extra step.


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 10, 2014)

miko0618 said:


> You can tie a bowline with yosemite and it will never come undone. Its really just 1 extra step.



Ok, "_yosemite_", now we're talkin' above this ol' noggin' oh mine, but iffen I want to learn that, I'll be sure to look it up. Isn't that a National Park? Right now I'm leaning towards the "double-loop-de-loop, with a coupla half-hitches". LOL!

Thank you for everyone's reply that's been either helpful or entertaining!

Fun times boys!

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## Jakec7051 (Nov 10, 2014)

Del_ said:


> How do you get an 8 to cinch up on a carabiner?
> 
> That's what I was talking about when I said 'slop'.
> 
> ...


What do you mean how do you get it to cinch? Do you want it to tighten down completely and hold the carabiner still? Or do you just want the bite to be tight on the carabiner?


----------



## pro94lt (Nov 10, 2014)

For you that think a running bowline is hard and it's quicker to use a carabiner please explain. Spliced eye??? Climbing on the ropes you hook dozers to pull them back leaning trees?????


----------



## miko0618 (Nov 10, 2014)

In rock climbing or such you dont need a cinching knot. The rope is under constant tension. We use cinching knots because our lines slack and re tighten.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Nov 10, 2014)

Del_ said:


> How do you get an 8 to cinch up on a carabiner?
> 
> That's what I was talking about when I said 'slop'.
> 
> ...



I like it when you post,, you make people think,, I think,,
Sorry for all you guys getting cold this week,
It really was a beautiful day,,
Jeff


----------



## Jakec7051 (Nov 10, 2014)

I'm familiar with what with your sayin. But on our side with rescue we want the knots to have as little play in them as possible. We use static rope. And tie the bite as close to the knot as we can. So that way it minimizes stretch I. The know and it a little more forgiving I case of a fall.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Nov 10, 2014)

miko0618 said:


> In rock climbing or such you dont need a cinching knot. The rope is under constant tension. We use cinching knots because our lines slack and re tighten.




This ain't rock climbing
Jeff


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 10, 2014)

I appreciate all the helpful replies.

To keep y'all on point, my original question was about using a slip-knot that won't cinch too tight and is easy to undue after a heavy load. The knot is to be tied after a throw-line is used to get it into a crotch, etc, then the knot itself would be tied from the ground, then pulled to the crotch in the tree. The heights would be anywhere from 20' to 55'ft. for me on average.

To further recap, I'm using a knot that does good, but every-now-and-then it cinches too tight when vehicle pullin' and is a bugger to undue.(worse when it's wet) Rope mostly used is a used 1/2"inch old climbing rope and not my preferred 5/8"+ bull rope. Was taught this knot over 25yrs. ago, but either forgot or never knew it's name and I have not seen other's use it nor seen it on the net.

Thanks,

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## Jakec7051 (Nov 10, 2014)

Del_ said:


> Cinching down on a carabiner is necessary so the knot does not move around on the biner when not under load and end up loading the gate when back under a load.
> 
> In the class of 8's, are any cinching?
> 
> ...


Friendly I'm good with. But there are no cinching you can just tighten but still it's not cinching down on anything. But hey I'm done. I was just throwing my advice out there to y'all. I'll post up some pics of us doing some training of us hangin on rope.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Nov 10, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> This ain't rock climbing
> Jeff


Or rescuing.


----------



## Jakec7051 (Nov 10, 2014)

KenJax Tree said:


> Or rescuing.


Well hey I even said that it wasn't in my original quote. I was just throwing out some different point of views for everyone to look at. The original question was what knot? I threw out what we use and why we use it. Sorry if you don't like my input.


----------



## BC WetCoast (Nov 10, 2014)

Del_ said:


> In arboriculture a bowline is not used for life support, either. We have drifted from the original question. A running bowline is fine for pulling over a tree and there is no loading and unloading happening.
> 
> I think we are all on the same page.



Bowline is used in life support if you're going old school and tying your friction hitch off the tail of the knot.


----------



## miko0618 (Nov 10, 2014)

BC WetCoast said:


> Bowline is used in life support if you're going old school and tying your friction hitch off the tail of the knot.


You could but an anchor hitch is so much safer and perfect for a split tail.


----------



## BC WetCoast (Nov 10, 2014)

StihlRockin' said:


> I appreciate all the helpful replies.
> 
> To keep y'all on point, my original question was about using a slip-knot that won't cinch too tight and is easy to undue after a heavy load. The knot is to be tied after a throw-line is used to get it into a crotch, etc, then the knot itself would be tied from the ground, then pulled to the crotch in the tree. The heights would be anywhere from 20' to 55'ft. for me on average.
> 
> ...



Use a running bowline and put a stick in the knot. When it's cinched tight, you can break it by pulling the stick out. That will give you enough slack to undo the knot.


----------



## ozzy42 (Nov 11, 2014)

Del_ said:


> View attachment 378758


One negative to using this method is the possibility of damaging the rope soon impact.
If terminated at the top ,the most that could get damaged from the tree smashing it into the ground would be 5to 10 ft.
The same damage would occur apr. midline with the base tie off.


----------



## miko0618 (Nov 11, 2014)

ozzy42 said:


> One negative to using this method is the possibility of damaging the rope soon impact.
> If terminated at the top ,the most that could get damaged from the tree smashing it into the ground would be 5to 10 ft.
> The same damage would occur apr. midline with the base tie off.


Thats just not true. When the tree falls you can have a decent amount of slack rope under the tree. It wont be the whole length of the tree but it can be a decent length.


----------



## Zale (Nov 11, 2014)

ozzy42 said:


> One negative to using this method is the possibility of damaging the rope soon impact.
> If terminated at the top ,the most that could get damaged from the tree smashing it into the ground would be 5to 10 ft.
> The same damage would occur apr. midline with the base tie off.



We are really overthinking this.


----------



## PLMCRZY (Nov 11, 2014)

I tie a bow


----------



## no tree to big (Nov 11, 2014)

PLMCRZY said:


> I tie a bow


Do you double knot it?


----------



## ozzy42 (Nov 11, 2014)

Zale said:


> We are really overthinking this.


No. Protecting a rope is not over thinking . And, I didn't say it would,I said it could.
OTOH,Tie a running bowline and pull the dam tree over. Simple as that.
If you don't trust one line,use 2.


----------



## ozzy42 (Nov 11, 2014)

miko0618 said:


> Thats just not true. When the tree falls you can have a decent amount of slack rope under the tree. It wont be the whole length of the tree but it can be a decent length.


True,but still better than mid line.


----------



## ozzy42 (Nov 11, 2014)

Del_ said:


> I've had ropes pushed or pinned into the ground but never damaged by it. If felling on a hard surface I agree damage may be possible. The biggest danger to a pinned rope is over active chainsawing! Take time to pull the rope free before much sawing takes place will spare many a rope.


Hey,some guys go nuts if a rope is stepped on.I just don't care for them getting hammered into the ground.
To each their own.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Nov 11, 2014)

C'mon its rope, we're not smashing puppies under trees.


----------



## ozzy42 (Nov 11, 2014)

Puppies,never.
Kittens,,,,well........?


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 11, 2014)

I for one am very picky about keeping the <climbing line> out of the dirt and sand. I have bull ropes and retired climbing lines I use to pull trees and am not so picky. On the smaller 1/2" climbing lines retired to pulling, they do get scrutinized to make sure they're durable enough to do the job. If not, then I may use them for light limb lowering... or give to the climber who has been taking stuff from me that I can't prove. LOL!

*StihlRockin'*


----------



## Zale (Nov 11, 2014)

ozzy42 said:


> No. Protecting a rope is not over thinking . And, I didn't say it would,I said it could.
> OTOH,Tie a running bowline and pull the dam tree over. Simple as that.
> If you don't trust one line,use 2.



Wear item. All part of the game.


----------



## treebilly (Nov 11, 2014)

Yep. I replace my main climbing line at least once a year and my bull rope as well.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Nov 11, 2014)

This just got me wondering where 'Rope' is,,,,hope he is ok.
Jeff


----------



## wood4heat (Nov 12, 2014)

KenJax Tree said:


> C'mon its rope, we're not smashing puppies under trees.


Don't tell any rope rescue guys that!


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 13, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> This just got me wondering where 'Rope' is,,,,hope he is ok.
> Jeff



*rope*ca.62 or *rope*nsaddle?

*SR'*


----------



## sgreanbeans (Nov 14, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> This just got me wondering where 'Rope' is,,,,hope he is ok.
> Jeff



Did u guys ever hear from Larry?


----------



## jefflovstrom (Nov 14, 2014)

sgreanbeans said:


> Did u guys ever hear from Larry?



No, but I know where he is.
Jeff


----------



## jefflovstrom (Nov 14, 2014)

StihlRockin' said:


> *rope*ca.62 or *rope*nsaddle?
> 
> *SR'*



Ropensaddle


----------



## StihlRockin' (Nov 14, 2014)

_*"Ropensaddle"*_

Gratias ago tibi.  (_*Thank you*_)

*SR'*


----------



## clifforion (Nov 18, 2014)

Hi there..didn't read the whole post...so if this is been said my apologizes....I treat pulling a tree over almost the same as I do rigging a limb. I toss the rope over the highest crotch I can get away with..drape the rope down on both sides, do a marlin(not sure if thats the right spelling) hitch above a running bowline, then pull the other end of the rope. Nothing ever gets so tight that it won't come loose, and then if you have to reposition your line its not tied hi in the tree the knot is roughly chest high, which can be a huge time saver if something goes quirky. Hope it helps!


----------



## one2tree (Dec 1, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> While I'm not a newbie why is using spikes for "prune only" a bad thing?


wtf why would you wear spikes for a prune an further unneccesarily scar a tree(yr not an arborist if you cant answer this for yrself)


----------



## one2tree (Dec 1, 2014)

yarightdawg said:


> Pulling a tree with a carabiner
> Seems risky , unless you just use then once and retire then


haven't got any photos to post but think about where the carabiner i if you clasp it on trunk facing away from desired direction of fall an redirect over a suitable limb . not allways apropriate tho. 99 pertecnt of the time running bow line is the go too knott


----------



## kschuler (Dec 1, 2014)

Use the running bowline. With the proper amount of tail, it will not pull through. To be safe add a stopper knot or yosemite tie off. If tied correctly, this knot will always come undone and will never bind. Adjust the size of the pull line to the pulling force.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Dec 1, 2014)

This has already been answered by wise men...
double running bowline,,,now stop,,
Jeff


----------



## treeman75 (Dec 2, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> No, but I know where he is.
> Jeff


Where is he?


----------



## one2tree (Dec 2, 2014)

easy so set from ground can be undone straight after fell by faller but has a tendancy to become pinnned under the heaviest part of trunk have often put good size limb down to fell onto to keep the butt of the ground an hence rope free to pull out . also found it not all to suitable for larger leaning trees where massive forces need be involved.


----------



## one2tree (Dec 2, 2014)

i always tell the newbies(green horns)there is no such thing as a dumb question an that they are better of to over whelm me than under whelm me .... clients, foreman an bosses will never complain you did to much work, but will always let you know if it wasn't enough .


----------



## no tree to big (Dec 2, 2014)

one2tree said:


> i always tell the newbies(green horns)there is no such thing as a dumb question an that they are better of to over whelm me than under whelm me .... clients, foreman an bosses will never complain you did to much work, but will always let you know if it wasn't enough .


Ha I have a guy that asks me at least 10 times a day "should I cut this log"? We cut all logs on site 6 to 8 feet for our tub grinder back at the shop and every day I have to tell him the machine has not gotten any bigger and we will continue to cut them every single day [emoji36]


----------



## TaoTreeClimber (Dec 18, 2014)

You can never go wrong with a running b0wline.


----------



## Jack Abbott (Jan 3, 2015)

Jakec7051 said:


> Couldn't have said it any better. The Bowline is prone to fail when loaded and unloaded numerous times. The family of 8's when tied right has little to no slop in it. When lowering and hoisting tools a figure 8 on a bite or a clove hitch with some half hitches holds everything. I am a rope tech instructor at my department. And I try not to teach the Bowline the only reason why I do is because my company makes us. But like we said its 2 different industries. I was just throwin out some different points of views due 2+2=4 but so does 3+1. There's a million ways to skin a cat find what works best for you and what your comfy with and stick with it.


I like the cross over of the industries here, always good to get other perspectives, I agree with you on the bowline not being a good life line knot, I think most arborists have retired it and use either a double fishermans or anchor bend.. Having said that, if your pulling trees with it then you should only be loading it once, as long as it is dressed properly it shouldn't slip, it is a really good knot for being able to undo after a heavy load, for pulling a choked off rope with a vehicle or 5-1 I personally use a bowline with a bight, which gives the bend a larger radius (the marlin spike way where you thread the bight through then fold it over itself, this method allows you to tie it midline also). I've had regular bowlines cinch up on me after extreme loads and no one wants to take a screwdriver to their beloved rigging rope


----------



## DLCRL (Jan 5, 2015)

Well if I climb up to set it I like a running bowline w/a wrap, so it won't cinch tight, however if I want to triangulate because there's nothing in the center of the tree to tie on to. Because the tree whys in 2 directions, I put the rope through two equal crotches and tie a bowline w/a stick in it so it won't cinch. If it does, break the stick now you've slack to work with. However if you use throw bag to set it high, use a long rope once through the crotch take the end coming down. Wrap it around the trunk making a Marline half hitch and finish w/a timber hitch above the notch.


----------



## DLCRL (Jan 5, 2015)

As far as tying off to a vehicle, truck, small skid steer etc I just use a port-a-wrap.


----------



## DLCRL (Jan 5, 2015)

TaoTreeClimber said:


> You can never go wrong with a running b0wline.


Bowline and Timber hitch are my bread and butter for roping limbs and block wood down.


----------



## treesmith (Jan 6, 2015)

For climbing where the tying in point is being advanced/thrown as the climber ascends, a bowline is an excellent choice. 
It's easy to tie, it's easy to untie, it is stable once loaded if you dont let it flop about and actually pay attention to how it looks.
I tend not to use it for a termination knot now only because I've gone over to permanent spliced eyes.
Great for rigging/securing


----------



## woodchuck357 (Jan 7, 2015)

I have been using bowlin as my go to knot for many decades and have done alot of testing, after hundreds of cycles of loading and unloading have NEVER been able to get a properly tied and set bowlin to work loose. 
All of the examples I have seen where they were able to get one to come loose were so loosely tied that they should not have been called knots.


----------



## DLCRL (Jan 7, 2015)

If you think it might cinch up just take a wrap or 2, I've taken huge pieces but if the knot is only keeping the tail from unwinding you can untie it w/ease.


----------



## mattfr12 (Jan 10, 2015)

I have pulled on a running bowline 3/4 rope with a cable skider and the knot has never failed the rope has always broken before the knot. I had to pull a bunch of oak trunks out of a valley and used old 3/4 stable braid I had attached to a skider, because the winch cable fell a little short. Rope broke once the old bowline or double bowline is bullet proof if tied correctly.


----------



## millbilly (Jan 12, 2015)

Six pages, and nobody and I mean none of you have even mentioned 2 of my favorites The unforgettable dragon bowline or the hatchet knot. I personally prefer the hatch knot over the dragon bowline. I don't get to pull the ole hatchet out and use it enough.


----------

