# STIHL MS 290 Farm Boss (Extremely Hard to Start Cold)



## thetexasrat (Jan 27, 2013)

I bought a brand-new STIHL MS 290 Farm Boss with a 4 year warranty. It is hard to start cold. Once I do get it running it restarts the first pull. 

When trying to start it I first set it to full choke and have to pull it countless of times before it will fire off and then die. Then If I set it to the high idle position it might start right up and start to rev high and then quickly die as if it runs out of fuel. Then by the time I try starting it in the normal operating position, after my arm is wore out, it will finally start and die time after time. Once it starts and idles it has a problem of hesitation for a little while before it will rev up. Once it finally can rev then it seems to do just fine - until I let it sit for a while and then the problem starts all over again. 

The Dealer told me it was most likely flooding and tells me to pull the plug and blow air through it until all the excess fuel clears the chamber, but there is no fuel coming out the exhaust and I has blown air through it anyway and there is no fuel spewing from the muffler. I can not see this as a flooding problem like the dealer says, it seems to me that it is starving for fuel. 

So an even worse problem begins, as for the next 4 years if I open it up to diagnose it right myself I void the warranty. I am wondering if any one knows why a STIHL MS 290 Farm Boss carburetor systems would be drained of fuel (or take in excessive air) after sitting-up a while so that I can tell the dealer to look into it and fix it instead of just giving me :censored: advice.


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## cutfast (Jan 27, 2013)

Take it back and have him start it when it's cold.
If he can start it with only a few pulls then your doing something wrong.
When it won't start tell him to fix it or give you a different one.


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## dpavlock (Jan 27, 2013)

thetexasrat said:


> I bought a brand-new STIHL MS 290 Farm Boss with a 4 year warranty. It is hard to start cold. Once I do get it running it restarts the first pull.
> 
> When trying to start it I first set it to full choke and have to pull it countless of times before it will fire off and then die. Then If I set it to the high idle position it might start right up and start to rev high and then quickly die as if it runs out of fuel. Then by the time I try starting it in the normal operating position, after my arm is wore out, it will finally start and die time after time. Once it starts and idles it has a problem of hesitation for a little while before it will rev up. Once it finally can rev then it seems to do just fine - until I let it sit for a while and then the problem starts all over again.
> 
> ...



TAKE IT BACK! You shouldn't have an issue like that with a new saw.

Did you follow the starting procedure as described in the manual? It may sound like a dumb question but they are easy to flood if you don't set it on high idle after it POPS off the first time.


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## bucknfeller (Jan 27, 2013)

I'd try just pulling it @ full choke 4 times, then go to high idle. If that doesn't work then I'd take it back. Sometimes the pop isn't much on those saws, maybe you're missing it, and it is flooding.


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## dswensen (Jan 27, 2013)

It's your technique. You are flooding it by not recognizing the "pop" and immediately setting the choke to fast idle. Read the manual or get someone with experience to show you what to look and listen for. I pull my 290 about 4 times max on full choke.


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## thetexasrat (Jan 27, 2013)

cutfast said:


> Take it back and have him start it when it's cold.
> If he can start it with only a few pulls then your doing something wrong.
> When it won't start tell him to fix it or give you a different one.



I did take it back once already and to my embarrassment it started for them with little trouble. I stayed there for about 20 minutes and then had another guy restart it, and with no trouble at all got it running. The first guy told me to skip past step two in the staring sequence and I would have less trouble, the second guy had a semi-warm saw to restart so it was not like he had to do a real cold start. 

Then I went home and started it it with no problem and used it that evening. Then the next morning I had the trouble starting it again, but after many tries I got it running and was finally able to use it. It seems not to like me or it does not like to sit-up. 

I told myself if it happens again I will definitely take it back and demand that they either fix it or give me another one, but if they check it out and find nothing wrong with it then they will charge me for diagnostic tests. The warranty work is only free if they find something wrong. So yes I will take it back if and when it does it again and even then only after I let it sit for a day so as to be sure it will trouble them.

But I was wondering if any body else had this type of problem and new what it could be.


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## bucknfeller (Jan 27, 2013)

thetexasrat said:


> I did take it back once already and to my embarrassment it started for them with little trouble. I stayed there for about 20 minutes and then had another guy restart it, and with no trouble at all got it running. The first guy told me to skip past step two in the staring sequence and I would have less trouble, the second guy had a semi-warm saw to restart so it was not like he had to do a real cold start.
> 
> Then I went home and started it it with no problem and used it that evening. Then the next morning I had the trouble starting it again, but after many tries I got it running and was finally able to use it. It seems not to like me or it does not like to sit-up.
> 
> ...



I think you missed your answer just like you're missing the pop! Try pulling it 4 times at full choke, then go to high idle.


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## thetexasrat (Jan 27, 2013)

dswensen said:


> It's your technique. You are flooding it by not recognizing the "pop" and immediately setting the choke to fast idle. Read the manual or get someone with experience to show you what to look and listen for. I pull my 290 about 4 times max on full choke.



I read the manual and also went back and had the dealer to show me and I still have trouble after it sit and try to start it cold. One of the guys at the dealer told me to skip step 2 and go from choke to normal running position. But how can it be flooded it it fires off and runs in the off idle step and then dies after about 2 seconds? I am not trying to say that I know this saw better than y'all, just seems to me it starves for fuel. Again when I had the trouble the day after the guy told me at the dealer that I was most likely flooding it and to take the spark plug out and blow compressed air through it there was no fuel coming out the muffler. I have a Poulan that had flooded and fuel was pouring out the exhaust (it had a needle seat problem, I fixed it and it works fine). Other than that I have ran this Poulan for 5 years and never had this bad of a starting problem, and was wondering if it is a STILH idiosyncrasy of being temperamental or possibly something wrong with it? 

And while this is my first STILH, I took automotive class in High School and six months of automotive trade schoolin', and I started working on push lawnmowers around seven years old. The first car I worked on I was 8 years old replacing the starter in a Corvette because I was the only one that could fit under it. I have worked on cars, trucks, big cab diesel tractors (as well as small ones), bulldozers, Vermeer rock saws, Back hoes, weed eaters, leaf blowers, motorcycles, go-carts, boats, etc.. (both foreign and domestic). I am now 49 years old and have had a reputation of being one of the best carburetor rebuilders in Madison County Texas, and have rebuilt hundred of them on all types of gasoline engines, both big and small and it seems to me to be a starvation issue in my book. 

But just in case I will try and start it as y'all advise tomorrow and see if I can learn the feel for starting this cantankerous STILH saw, or not. 

Thanks for the input. And I hope it is just me. 

P.S. - I have read here that there is something one can do to the exhaust to get more power, but they did not elaborate, can some one point me in the direction of a thread that gets into the details of this? I would really like to soup it up best I can with out voiding the 4 year warranty.


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## dpavlock (Jan 27, 2013)

thetexasrat said:


> I read the manual and also went back and had the dealer to show me and I still have trouble after it sit and try to start it cold. One of the guys at the dealer told me to skip step 2 and go from choke to normal running position. But how can it be flooded it it fires off and runs in the off idle step and then dies after about 2 seconds? I am not trying to say that I know this saw better than y'all, just seems to me it starves for fuel. Again when I had the trouble the day after the guy told me at the dealer that I was most likely flooding it and to take the spark plug out and blow compressed air through it there was no fuel coming out the muffler. I have a Poulan that had flooded and fuel was pouring out the exhaust (it had a needle seat problem, I fixed it and it works fine not). Other than that I have ran a Poulan for 5 years and never had this bad of a starting problem, and was wondering if it is a STILH idiosyncrasy?
> 
> Anyway I will try and start it as y'all advise tomorrow and see if I can learn the feel for starting, or not. Thanks for the input.



Stihls are a different animal compared to other saws when it comes to starting, but it's not rocket science. You'll get it figured out.


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## thetexasrat (Jan 27, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> I think you missed your answer just like you're missing the pop! Try pulling it 4 times at full choke, then go to high idle.



I will first thing tomorrow, and will get back with y'all as to my results. Thanks for the input.


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## TreePointer (Jan 27, 2013)

The 290 is one of the easiest starting Stihls I've ever had in my hands. As others have stated, no more than 4 pulls on full choke whether you hear it pop or not!

What octane gas are you using? What 2-cycle mix are you using? What mix ratio are you using? How fresh is your mix?


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## mountainlake (Jan 27, 2013)

Sounds a lot more like a lean low circiut to me, first I'd try opening the low adjuster about 1/4 turn which might mean pulling the limiter cap off.. Also make sure the choke os closing tight. Steve


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## mountainlake (Jan 27, 2013)

Also check to make sure the impulse line is hooked up good. Steve


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## lambs (Jan 27, 2013)

I'm not sure I'd even pull it 4 times on full choke. I've seen several 250s that would flood if you tried to start it with more than 2 pulls at full choke.

I don't think your earlier problem with the other saw is indicative as to what's going on with your 290. A flooded saw won't necessarily blow any fuel out of the exhaust. 

So I'd set your saw to full choke, pull the starter rope twice, then set it to half choke and pull it until it starts running. 

Keep a sharp chain and cut wood.


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## RED WOOD (Jan 27, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> I'd try just pulling it @ full choke 4 times, then go to high idle. If that doesn't work then I'd take it back. Sometimes the pop isn't much on those saws, maybe you're missing it, and it is flooding.



2X My 290 takes 4 pulls on cold start before it fires. The sound you are listening for is more like a run on than a pop. They will flood if you pull the starter 1X after fire. The muffler is pretty restricted on those saws and they are not loud when they fire.


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## mountainlake (Jan 27, 2013)

His describtion of how it acts is a saw that is set too lean on the low adjuster, saws that are rich don't die when you pull the throttle they accelerate slowly clearing out the excess gas. Steve


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## jughead500 (Jan 27, 2013)

sounds like a hole in the fuel line.like its losing prime after a while.thus taking several pulls to get the fuel back up to the carb.possibly a bad needle causing the fuel to go back down the line????


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## 066blaster (Jan 27, 2013)

If it is your first stihl you should know it needs a little warm up before it will run good. warming it up requires a little feathering of the the throttle till it runs good. I pull mine 2 or 3 times full choke then put to run position and manually hold the throttle trigger wide open and it takes 1 or 2 pulls to fire up. If other people can start it your doing something wrong. look in to the muffler mod you will like it!


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## Fish (Jan 27, 2013)

thetexasrat said:


> I bought a brand-new STIHL MS 290 Farm Boss with a 4 year warranty. It is hard to start cold. Once I do get it running it restarts the first pull.
> 
> When trying to start it I first set it to full choke and have to pull it countless of times before it will fire off and then die. Then If I set it to the high idle position it might start right up and start to rev high and then quickly die as if it runs out of fuel. Then by the time I try starting it in the normal operating position, after my arm is wore out, it will finally start and die time after time. Once it starts and idles it has a problem of hesitation for a little while before it will rev up. Once it finally can rev then it seems to do just fine - until I let it sit for a while and then the problem starts all over again.
> 
> ...



Just to try something, go out and buy some fresh fuel and mix. See how it starts then, and turn your low speed screw to the left a hair.


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## SawTroll (Jan 27, 2013)

lambs said:


> I'm not sure I'd even pull it 4 times on full choke. ....



I tend to agree, my "rule of thumb" is max 3, and to keep in mind that even the faintest sign that it wants to start should be counted as a "pop".


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jan 27, 2013)

*Well, we have two answers. Too much fuel (flooding) and not getting fuel.*

Well, we have two answers. Too much fuel (flooding) and not getting fuel. 

OP, have you tried to put a bit of fuel mix in the carb before starting it? If it pops right off for you, then you know that it's not enough fuel. 

Is the choke closing all of the way? (pull the air filter and check) 

Too much fuel. After trying to start it, pull the spark plug. It should be wet if it's flooded


What type of dealer did you buy it from? Full service? Hardware store?

On your question about "souping it up". You're asking about a muffler mod. Basically opening up the muffler to let it breath. You're about 4 years away from doing that if you want to keep your warranty.

OH, welcome to AS. 

If you look back to probably every members posts, we all probably had a question similar to this one.


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## Bingo (Jan 27, 2013)

*290 start*

Before I did anything else I think I'd take it to the dealer when it was cold and have him watch me try to start it. If I were doing something wrong he'd see it right off...


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## 1Alpha1 (Jan 27, 2013)

Man oh man........if I had a new saw and it was hard to start, I'd be upset too. opcorn:

But hang in there. I have a hunch you'll get it all sorted out.


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## Fish (Jan 27, 2013)

I would like to see more detail.

Like purchase date for 1.

Date it was hard to start...

If it was the day after purchase, did he contact the dealer.?

If it was a week after purchase, did he contact the dealer?

If it was 2 months, well........


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## woodyman (Jan 27, 2013)

When you took it to the dealer and he started it was it run before hand?
After you do finally get it started and your arm is ready to fall off does it shoot any smoke out the muffler?
The thing that gets me is the dealer started it with no problem


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## bucknfeller (Jan 27, 2013)

There are currently 4 users browsing this thread. (4 members and 0 guests)
bucknfeller, 
thetexasrat, 
Bad Cut, 
woodyman

I see you made it back, how did it go?


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## woodyman (Jan 27, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> There are currently 4 users browsing this thread. (4 members and 0 guests)
> bucknfeller,
> thetexasrat,
> Bad Cut,
> ...


Everything came out alright:fart:
I almost forgot.At my last job this summer they bought a new MS290 for cutting 6x6 and 10x10's for flat bedders loads.They kept flooding it out because they couldn't hear it pop and kept the choke on and kept pulling.I showed them how to get it going after this was done.


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## thetexasrat (Jan 28, 2013)

OK, 

ran it again today and had the same problem starting it. 

The saw was bought on Friday the 18th, ran it that evening and the next two days, then took it to the dealer (Ace Hardware) Monday the 21st after I tried to start it. I think that is why they where able to start it because I about primed it but gave up. Anyway I took it back to them the third day after purchase. Every day I take it out I have trouble getting it started. Even if I let it site for an hour or two it has some problems but not like when it sits up over night. 

So far I have ran 1 gallon and 2 tanks full. The mix was made fresh on the on the 18th (the first day I used it. I used STIHL Two-Stoke oil bought at the same time as the saw (which is the reason they doubled the warranty). It came in six little bottles pre-measured for 50:1 ratio fuel mixture. I just mixed the second gallon today (27th), so fresh mix is not the problem. I am not sure what octane my dad put in the cans but I know what ever it was he also filled up his 2012 Dodge Ram Hemi 1/2 ton truck with. I also know if he can run the lower grade octane fuel in his truck he would with out a second though. He will normally get the cheapest what ever when he buy something if he can. He is a retired account, so he has a habit of watching [accounting for and trying to hold onto] every penny. I can testify that his big block Hemi never pings.

My dad has five wooded acres with many pine and water oak trees. So far I have cut down at least ten 20 inch diameter pines and six 36 inch diameter water oaks and close to ten more of various diameters from 6 inches to 24 inches in diameters. All these trees where lost either to the last two hurricanes and the droughts over the past three years. 

I cut all but the last four 36 inch diameter water oak with a Poulan saw with a 16 inch bar. I wore out the clutch, three bars, couple of spark plugs, broke one chain and wore three or four others out, and also had to put the motor into a newer used housing (with a brand new piston ring for good measure) to keep it alive. I also put an 18 inch bar on it this go around. It still starts on the second pull most of the time, and up to 5 or 6 pulls if I do happen to fluid it. I just recently took down two more water oaks with it ( one 24 inch and one 16 inch diameter). But after taking down so many big trees with it, and also wanting still to clear one acre of youpon with it, I had been trying to get my dad to buy a STIHL so that I and the Poulan would not have to work so hard on these last four humongous water oaks. The Poulan will be used solely for cutting youpon just below the dirt so that the mower does not hand up on them, and so people do not trip on the stobs.

So he finally brook down and bought a STIHL on my recommendation. The Farm Boss MS 290 is all he would put out for ($399.99+tax). It is his saw but I am the one running it as he is 70 something years old. 

I have one more tree at present to cut up, if I can. Base on the input here I will try riching the low needle as far as it can, with the limiter cap, to see if that helps tomorrow. Be nice if that is all it is. I will not pop the limiter cap as that is a warranty no no I am not willing to do unless I have a new one to replace it with first. If turning it out what little it does allow will not work I defiantly will be taking it back (later this week) to the dealer [again] for the warranty work. I will let them try to start it and pray it finally does them dirty this go around so that they can realize the need to fix it. If It starts for them, I will take it back day after day until it does them dirty or until I learn just how to start the cantankerous thing. Buy the way, just I am flooding the thing, what is the "POP"? Is this where you hear it fire? or is it something more subtle than that?

Normally I am pretty good at starting things but I have meet my match here and there with lemons. Yet a brand spanking new saw that they won't let me tear into takes the cake - yeah/nawbang? I might just have to try and become a STIHL Dealer authorized mechanic just to get around this problem. I could work on it when I want without voiding the warranty (including free parts). 

No matter what if they do not do something to fix it I will go elsewhere and get new hoses, carburetor kit, plus a new limiter cap if possible and do the work myself, for my own piece of mind, and not tell them. I am pretty sure that I could fix it and they would never know that I did, so long as I use authentic STIHL parts, and also keep my mouth shut for at least four years. I would also have to just do it with out my dad knowing as well because he would not be willing to take the chance of possibly losing the warranty. I would have to buy the parts myself if I did. Yet, I really would rather them to fix it as a matter of principle of selling a new saw and under warranty to boot.

I will let y'all know the out come of trying to richen-up the low screw by tomorrow night. 

Again much thanks for the input. And one day, with y'all's help, I will not only hear the "POP" but become a real STIHL dude.


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## cutforfun (Jan 28, 2013)

Now that you are done with our rant try something in the morning. 
1- set the saw at full choke and pull it 2 times
2- click it up to fast idle one click up dont touch the throttle and pull it 5 more times
3- if the saw does not start then you have some tuning issues and we will help u
4- report back
5- dont blame the saw just yet ask Dano, once you figure it out you will be fine

Good luck


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## thetexasrat (Jan 28, 2013)

cutforfun said:


> Now that you are done with our rant try something in the morning.
> 1- set the saw at full choke and pull it 2 times
> 2- click it up to fast idle one click up dont touch the throttle and pull it 5 more times
> 3- if the saw does not start then you have some tuning issues and we will help u
> ...



Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I would try and start it as you recommend. My bad. But yes I will try just as you prescribed step by step. I will check for smoke as it starts also. And if it does not start after doing this then I will put some fuel down the carburetor to see if that helps. I did try to pull it on choke until I heard the "POP" today but it, as far as I understand, did not happen until way down the road so to speak. 

And yes the choke closes completely, and I also pulled the plug and it was dry as a bone in my book.

After hearing that it could be the fuel line, the needle seat, or an impulse line problem gives me hope that I have not lost my touch starting things, or my mind for thinking it could be a lack of fuel, yet I will stay open minded just in case.

The only reason I have not really tried to fix it is because my dad does not want me to do anything to it whereby I might void the warranty. I told him about trying to set the mixture screws and he said that I should not do it and just wait for the Dealer authorized mechanic to do it, until I showed him in the owners manual where it said I could. But as I said before he is dead set against me popping the limiter cap. 

Say does any one know where to get a free PDF Shop Manual for this saw?

As for the muffler mod perhaps I could get an old junk saw for parts and use it's muffler for the modification and then if I need to take it in for warranty work I could simply put the factory one back on(?). I still need to run a search on "Muffler mod" to find out the best way to do it.


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## BluntForgedEdge (Jan 28, 2013)

thetexasrat said:


> Say does any one know where to get a free PDF Shop Manual for this saw?



*Stihl MS 290, 310, 390*

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

But more than likely it's this *Repair Manual* you're looking for instead of the Owner's Manual.


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## Bermie (Jan 28, 2013)

The 'pop' is a subtle thing...

My 361 is barely audible, so I never go past 3 pulls full choke or it WILL flood.

Sometimes it's the kickback on the starter cord that gives you an indication of 'pop' rather than a noise.

I wouldn't fiddle with the carb too much yet, if you want to do anything, just set them to factory spec as indicated on the air filter cover. Screw them in till they seat then back them off the number of turns indicated.

Put the saw on the ground
Chainbrake ON
Kneel down
Squeeze throttle and interlock, engage full choke, all in one motion
Left knee on ground against starter housing
Right heel on the 'flare' of the right handle/guard
(some people put their right toe through the handle...I don't)
Left hand on top handle
Pull gently to engage starter pawls
Pull briskly and firmly x 3
Click choke lever up ONE setting to high idle (some call it half choke)
Engage pawls...pull briskly, should start then run at high idle...quickly 'blip' the throttle to get the lever to click to 'run'...
Take chainbrake off
Let it warm up a bit and GRADUALLY increase throttle till it catches and runs, then let 'er rip.

Good luck, I have a 290 no problem...


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## missedbass (Jan 28, 2013)

dano said:


> Man oh man........if I had a new saw and it was hard to start, I'd be upset too. opcorn:
> 
> But hang in there. I have a hunch you'll get it all sorted out.



Are you sure you have nothing to do with this? He sure could use your help


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## thetexasrat (Jan 28, 2013)

BluntForgedEdge said:


> *Stihl MS 290, 310, 390*
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 
> But more than likely it's this *Repair Manual* you're looking for instead of the Owner's Manual.



Bingo on the second Manual (shop manuals are the same thing as repair manuals). The owners manual came with the saw [in print/hard copy]. Thanks for the help finding it.

Well it will not be long before I can try and start the saw.


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## 1Alpha1 (Jan 28, 2013)

missedbass said:


> Are you sure you have nothing to do with this? He sure could use your help



My 261 doesn't _*pop*_ while on choke. It doesn't even make a noise that is anything similar to that. 

Once I got past the expectation of hearing a pop, all was good. 

I'm thinking that the spark plug in my saw is just one of the real quiet ones. :msp_biggrin:


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## cutforfun (Jan 28, 2013)

Did it start or not or


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jan 28, 2013)

I like the suggestion of having the dealer watch you starting it. If they can start it and you can't, there is something different going on.

I can have guys pulling and pulling on my saws. I walk over, and a couple of pulls and it's running.


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## 2dumb4words (Jan 28, 2013)

I tell anyone using my tools,if it takes more than three pulls check the choke & kill switch. If I hear three more pulls without a fire, I try to go see what they're doing wrong. Most start in one or two anyway. By three, something probably ain't right.


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## woodyman (Jan 28, 2013)

manyhobies said:


> I like the suggestion of having the dealer watch you starting it. If they can start it and you can't, there is something different going on.
> 
> I can have guys pulling and pulling on my saws. I walk over, and a couple of pulls and it's running.


That is why I asked if it was run before he took it to the dealer and they started it with ease.When he was at the dealer they should have showed him the correct way to start it before he left.Something just is not adding up
The Husky dealer in St.Cloud,MN 20 miles from me which is a fleet supply store starts all the new saws up out back and makes sure the buyer knows everything about the saws operation before they leave with it.


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## TreePointer (Jan 28, 2013)

Another general tip: some saws (and other 2-cycle engines for that matter) start better with a rapid, sudden pull than a moderate pull.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jan 28, 2013)

TreePointer said:


> Another general tip: some saws (and other 2-cycle engines for that matter) start better with a rapid, sudden pull than a moderate pull.



Good *POINT!*


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## bucknfeller (Jan 28, 2013)

TreePointer said:


> Another general tip: some saws (and other 2-cycle engines for that matter) start better with a rapid, sudden pull than a moderate pull.





manyhobies said:


> Good *POINT!*



Yeah, sometimes ya just gotta sneak up on that SOB! Surprise attack


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## thetexasrat (Jan 29, 2013)

cutforfun said:


> Did it start or not or



Well, yes and no.

Let me clarify my answer. First off I followed the following instructions to a "T" except the part about what to do right after it starts because it did not even try to act as if it though to start.

_Pull gently to engage starter pawls
Pull briskly and firmly x 3
Click choke lever up ONE setting to high idle (some call it half choke)
Engage pawls...pull briskly, should start then run at high idle...quickly 'blip' the throttle to get the lever to click to 'run'...
Take chainbrake off
Let it warm up a bit and GRADUALLY increase throttle till it catches and runs, then let 'er rip._

OK, so then I started back at step 1 and tried again, to no avail.

Then just to be 100% sure it was not flooding I put it on Full Choke and pulled the rope 30 times as fast as I could and then immediately pulled the spark plug to see if it was wet. Just as I had expected it was dry as a bone!!! 

I then poured a thimble of fuel mix in the plug whole and put the plug back in and on full Choke only had to pull the rope five times and it fired for 1 second and abruptly died. Then I poured fuel into the carb and pulled it three times on Full Choke and it fired for a second and abruptly died. Then I poured a thimble of fuel mix down the carb again and set it on High Idle and pulled the rope three times and it fired up and ran for 2 seconds and then abruptly died again. To further establish my point I poured another thimble full of fuel mix down the carb and pulled the rope four or five times on Operation Mode and it fired off and ran 2 seconds and I pulled the trigger and it revved up for one second and once again abruptly died. 

I then had to put it down and travel 100 mile down the road to pick up some furniture and turn around and deliver it, so I did not get to do any cutting today so I did not actually do any cutting today (WHAT A BUMMER). 

Anyway, as I had suspected the test confirm that it is a lack of fuel, not flooding (*unless I am still missing something*). 

The reason I did not think to run these tests before is because I was going by my understanding as to how it was acting and my first idea was to take it apart and fix it not run tests to find out what I had already reasoned from many a years experience. But being I have been fooled before at times I though to try as y'all encouraged just in case. And I thank y'all for trying to help in this matter. And as also encouraged I ran some test finally for y'all as well as my own curiosity and the test results show that it is starving for fuel!

By the way I had pulled on the saw about 50 times just before leaving the house to go to the dealer for the warranty claim. I have come to the conclusion that I had primed it for them and they just think that I had flooded it. And the first guy did not exactly fire it right up as y'all say it should happen. Even though he did get it to fire it would abrutly die on him over and over until about the fourth time in which he still could not rev it up with out is dying for lack of fuel. Once he got it primed real good and running then it started every time, even 20 minutes later for the next guy. I took it home and ran it that evening just fine, but the next morning after sitting up my trouble started all over again. At the beginning of each day that I ran the saw I had hell getting it started but after much pulling would finally get it going but it was very no responsive to any trigger pull for a minute then would run fine from there. 

Again if I would have ran the test that would have help to clear the mystery but I was convinced within myself that my reckoning was correct and needed no testing to actually confirm. So with test ran and my speculations confirmed, I apologize for being too sure of myself and not doing test to help y'all in your speculations before I asked for help. Still I thank every body for trying. And now I will have some ideas to recommend to the Dealer licensed mechanic to focus on (_i.e. - leaking inlet line, bad needle seat valve, or problem with the impulse line_) when I take it back tomorrow. Surely he will already know these things but just in case his brain snap is as slow as mine now a days it will not hurt to bring these three to his atention. 

Again if it was not under warranty I would have simply torn into the carb system to try and find where it was messed up and fix it from there. If I was not so sure then I would have run the tests.

Anyway, once I get it back from the Dealer I will let y'all know which of the three things jughead500 and Mountainlake diagnosed as possibilities it was, if not a combination of them.

In the mean time I will be dreaming of a Muff Mod ~


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## cutforfun (Jan 29, 2013)

:msp_thumbdn: well that sucks, take it back to the dealer and have them take a look at it. Watch them start it and see if they are doing anything different than you. I dont worry about talking up any of the slack on a new saw when i pull it over. Just grip it and rip it. On a side note if you keep hanging out around here there is know way the saw will make it 4 years threw a warranty before you do some mods to the saw:msp_sneaky:


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## thetexasrat (Jan 29, 2013)

cutforfun said:


> take it back to the dealer and have them take a look at it. Watch them start it and see if they are doing anything different than you.


I will and I am not going to tell them about the test until they can not get it started. 

Any who, once they do fix it I will be an expert on starting it with all the tried and proven techniques of them who have gone before me. 




cutforfun said:


> On a side note if you keep hanging out around here there is know way the saw will make it 4 years threw a warranty before you do some mods to the saw:msp_sneaky:


Tell me about it I have been trying to talk myself out of a MUFF MOD all day long. 

Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

I might just have to MUFF MOD my old Poulan 42cc to see if it can out cut the new STIHL 56.5cc, the race is on - (period!). And you may very well be right about me doing a Muff Mod to the STIHL, but I will have to get another muffle to hack-up, and hold onto the factory one just in case I need warranty work done. I would simply switch the Muffles and re-adjust the mixture screws to factory settings before taking it in. But if STIHL is as good as they say it should out last the warranty anyway(?).


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## BluntForgedEdge (Jan 29, 2013)

Say *thetexasrat*! Have you a video camera that you can film of the STIHL MS 290 Farm Boss chainsaw starting? AS folks are keenly interested in seeing videos of chainsaws and all.


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## mountainlake (Jan 29, 2013)

As mentioned it could be as simple as the low adjusted too lean or maybe some crud got in the low circuit in the carb or bad impulse line. Steve


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## bucknfeller (Jan 29, 2013)

thetexasrat said:


> And you may very well be right about me doing a Muff Mod to the STIHL, but I will have to get another muffle to hack-up, and hold onto the factory one just in case I need warranty work done. I would simply switch the Muffles and re-adjust the mixture screws to factory settings before taking it in. But if STIHL is as good as they say it should out last the warranty anyway(?).




Sounds like a decent idea, problem is, after the MM you need to re-adjust the carb or they usually run lean. I don't think the limiter caps will let you richen it up enough after the mod. So if you go poppin the caps off, you're back to square one as far as warranty goes. 


Sounds to me like your saw might have a pinched fuel line, or a problem with the impulse line. Could be just lean on the L screw, but usually you can atleast get it going, or wet the plug. I wouldn't say anything at all about your testing even if they can't get it to start, if they are worth their salts, they will figure it out.


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## thetexasrat (Jan 29, 2013)

BluntForgedEdge said:


> Say *thetexasrat*! Have you a video camera that you can film of the STIHL MS 290 Farm Boss chainsaw starting? AS folks are keenly interested in seeing videos of chainsaws and all.


No I do not have a video camera, but I could try and use my sister's cellphone to take pictures one at a time and I go real slow and then people could flip fast through them. 

I had though of getting her to take pictures of the trees I had cut down or at least the stumps.


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## thetexasrat (Jan 29, 2013)

bucknfeller said:


> Sounds like a decent idea, problem is, after the MM you need to re-adjust the carb or they usually run lean. I don't think the limiter caps will let you richen it up enough after the mod. So if you go poppin the caps off, you're back to square one as far as warranty goes.
> 
> 
> Sounds to me like your saw might have a pinched fuel line, or a problem with the impulse line. Could be just lean on the L screw, but usually you can atleast get it going, or wet the plug. I wouldn't say anything at all about your testing even if they can't get it to start, if they are worth their salts, they will figure it out.


I will not bother telling them that I tested it but I will give them the advise y'all have shared with me just in case they are not as smart as y'all are. Again I am new to STIHL saws myself but you think a factory rep mechanic should be up to par on them. 

I did Muff Mod my old Poulan saw today. I think I opened it up to around 50% more than stock specs. It sounds throatier and also most definitely runs a little stronger. I cut a 12 inch limb first with the old muffler and then with the modified muffler, and the modified one cut 3 seconds off the time. Not much but still not bad. I will leave the modified muffler on it as it does run better, but if I can not get but just 3 seconds off a cut I don't think it is worth losing a warranty over on the STIHL, but definitely something to think about after the warranty expires 4 years from now.

On that note, is there anyway to take the limiter caps off and then put them back after taking them off without anyone being able to tell? I had always just ripped them out and throwed them away (never tried to be fragile with them and put 'em back in my way for latter). As I said before, after the dealer gets the STIHL fixed I would MOD the MUFF if I could save the Limiter Caps and put them back on along with the factory muffler just before taking it in for warranty work. And then switch 'em back once they do the necessary repairs.


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## oldmar (Jan 29, 2013)

When the dealer gets it to start and run, have they taken off the fuel cap just prior to starting? I'm thinking the tank vent could be bad, resulting in no fuel to the carb. See if there's a hiss when you open the fuel cap.


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## 2dumb4words (Jan 29, 2013)

Over and over in this thread I hear 4 year warranty being tossed around. Stihl advertises 1 year on their website. Double it with a 6 pack of ultra, right? Now were at two yeah? What am I missing?


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## thetexasrat (Jan 29, 2013)

View attachment 276417


2dumb4words said:


> Over and over in this thread I hear 4 year warranty being tossed around. Stihl advertises 1 year on their website. Double it with a 6 pack of ultra, right? Now were at two yeah? What am I missing?



On page 59 0f the STIHL MS 290, 310, 390 Owners manual you will find that STIHL warrants it for 2 years. And being I bought a SIX PACK of their two-cycle engine oil they DOUBLED THE WARRANTY. It was a promotional thing I happened to step into. You should try it, but you best hurry cause it may not last.

To read the Warranty either click on "STIHL MS 290, 310, 390 Owners manual" above, or the Attachment [MS290_310_390_Warranty.pdf] at top of this post.


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## Jensent (Feb 1, 2013)

So did you get it to start and run properly? Let us know what happens so we can learn from your experience!
Tom


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## bucknfeller (Feb 2, 2013)

Jensent said:


> So did you get it to start and run properly? Let us know what happens so we can learn from your experience!
> Tom



The OP is gone, might be for awhile


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## will brinson: (Feb 16, 2013)

Jensent said:


> So did you get it to start and run properly? Let us know what happens so we can learn from your experience!
> Tom



Well I finally got the saw back from the dealer mechanic. He did say that it was defiantly very hard to start, and he claimed that all he did was remove the limiter caps and richen them up. That is all that he said he did. I decided to take a look and see if he had put limiter caps back and saw that the vent tube had been pinched at some time in the past but was at this time had been removed from what ever place it got pinched and was now able to breath. 

I remember some one asking if it spewed when opening the fuel cap- and yes it used to but not anymore. I believe that the unpinching of this line stopped that. I do not know if it had anything to do with the saw being hard to start in the mornings though as once it was start it would start back up easy enough. For that matter even if it was set lean it still started easy after it was start once that day. 

Anyway no matter what it was that caused it be hard to start it now starts in 4 pulls (every time) when cold and in 1 pull after it has been warmed up. 

I had to violate rule #18 to answer this for y'all, yet I said I would let y'all know after I had gotten it back. Anyway if I do not answer any future questions again it will be due to Rule #18.

May,
YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.

Your Brother in Yehoshua The Anointed One.

will


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## cutforfun (Feb 16, 2013)

Thanks for letting us knowopcorn:


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## Steve NW WI (Feb 16, 2013)

will brinson: said:


> I had to violate rule #18 to answer this for y'all, yet I said I would let y'all know after I had gotten it back. Anyway if I do not answer any future questions again it will be due to Rule #18.



Admitting you're wrong doesn't make it less wrong. Back to banned camp.


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## mountainlake (Feb 16, 2013)

Just adjusted lean as mentioned in post 12, a lot of saws come set lean nowdays and nothing the OP said pointed towards flooding. Steve


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2013)

Fish said:


> Just to try something, go out and buy some fresh fuel and mix. See how it starts then, and turn your low speed screw to the left a hair.



So what is rule # 18???

My post here is post# 19..........


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2013)

mountainlake said:


> Sounds a lot more like a lean low circiut to me, first I'd try opening the low adjuster about 1/4 turn which might mean pulling the limiter cap off.. Also make sure the choke os closing tight. Steve



Oh, yeah, you hit it first. It is almost impossible to pinch shut that ventline, BTW


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## Gologit (Feb 16, 2013)

Fish said:


> So what is rule # 18???
> 
> My post here is post# 19..........



Rule 18 addresses establishing a new account or a new user ID after being banned. When a banned user tries to get back in using a new ID it alerts the mods and the new user ID gets banned also.


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2013)

will brinson: said:


> I had to violate rule #18 to answer this for y'all, yet I said I would let y'all know after I had gotten it back. Anyway if I do not answer any future questions again it will be due to Rule #18.
> 
> May,
> YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
> ...



Maybe he belongs to the A.S. "Fight Club".............


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Rule 18 addresses establishing a new account or a new user ID after being banned.



Oh, I didn't notice that he had changed. Sorry


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## SawTroll (Feb 16, 2013)

dano said:


> My 261 doesn't _*pop*_ while on choke. It doesn't even make a noise that is anything similar to that.
> 
> Once I got past the expectation of hearing a pop, all was good.
> 
> I'm thinking that the spark plug in my saw is just one of the real quiet ones. :msp_biggrin:



Even the faintest sign that the saw wants to start should be regarded as a "pop".


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## JP56 (Nov 14, 2018)

thetexasrat said:


> I did take it back once already and to my embarrassment it started for them with little trouble. I stayed there for about 20 minutes and then had another guy restart it, and with no trouble at all got it running. The first guy told me to skip past step two in the staring sequence and I would have less trouble, the second guy had a semi-warm saw to restart so it was not like he had to do a real cold start.
> 
> Then I went home and started it it with no problem and used it that evening. Then the next morning I had the trouble starting it again, but after many tries I got it running and was finally able to use it. It seems not to like me or it does not like to sit-up.
> 
> ...




I have my MS290 Farm Boss about 6 years now and have always had this identical problem every single time I have a first or cold start, and STILL have it to this day! 
Did you solve your problem? 
I also own a BR380 Blower and was having the identical problem with that as well. I googled that and found a great forum that addressed the issue with that. It turned out to be the gap setting on the magneto end of the spark plug wire at the flywheel under the pull starter. It indicated that it is a very common problem with the STIHL Blowers, and it also stated that these points are very difficult to set because for some reason as you tighten down the holding screws they seem to kick the points out of adjustment so you have to carefully hold each end of the joint as you tighten down each bolt and then recheck and realign as needed until you get it exactly where it belongs. 
It took me 3 tries before I got the gap to stay when tightening down the bolts, but my blower now starts on one or two pulls every single cold start, no matter how long it has been sitting unused.
I am wondering if the chainsaws have the same set-up, but am still looking for a manual picture or diagram before taking the saw apart to check it.


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## JP56 (Nov 14, 2018)

BluntForgedEdge said:


> *Stihl MS 290, 310, 390*
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 
> But more than likely it's this *Repair Manual* you're looking for instead of the Owner's Manual.


I tried your link for the manual, and it appears to be an old or broken one, the manual is not there anymore. But I found EXACTLY what" thetexasrat" and I are both looking for. 
The link is: https://permies.com/t/59015/Stihl-chainsaws-Repair-Service-Manuals
It is the STIHL Illustrated Parts Manual, 84 pages, and covers the MS290, 310, & 390. 
It also shows the part I mentioned earlier in the thread where the gap was not right straight from the Dealer, & took me 3 times to get it set correct, and that was the cause of my hard start problem on my BR380 Blower. It's called the Ignition Module.
This is a great forum guys! Thanks.


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## JP56 (Nov 14, 2018)

woodyman said:


> That is why I asked if it was run before he took it to the dealer and they started it with ease.When he was at the dealer they should have showed him the correct way to start it before he left.Something just is not adding up
> The Husky dealer in St.Cloud,MN 20 miles from me which is a fleet supply store starts all the new saws up out back and makes sure the buyer knows everything about the saws operation before they leave with it.




I bought both my STIHLs from a Direct Factory Authorized Dealer/Repair Shop. They too started the stuff outside in the back of the shop, then brought it inside to the counter, and didn't show or tell me SQUAT about the starting procedure or anything else! Had to take it home and read the manual. Just about wrecked my shoulder trying to start both the blower and the chainsaw from cold starts since the day I got them home. Was so shocked about the article I found regarding the gap setting at the flywheel on the Ignition module being a royal pain to get set exact. But it was spot on and I have never had a cold start problem since I fixed the gap on the blower. Now to move on to checking the gap on the chainsaw.


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## JP56 (Nov 30, 2018)

An update on my STHIL problems:

I have own 2 STHIL products, a MS290 Saw, and a BR380 Blower. Both of them had been brutally hard to start on the first cold start since the day I got them home and tried to use them on day 2 of owning them. The dealer I purchased them from started them both out behind the buildings work shop then brought them to me at the cashier counter in the showroom, then brought them inside to me and sent me on my way. I took them home (about a mile away) and used them immediately with no problem. Just to be accurate, I purchased them both from the same dealer, but not on the same day. In both cases, the day after I bought & used them, and every time since I have had trouble starting them. I found and fixed the BR380 problem, which turned out to be that the ignition module/flywheel gap was never properly set. After prolonged searches, I finally found an article that addressed that problem, and once I took it apart and checked the gap, found it incorrect and fixed it. From that day on it always starts on one or 2 pulls. 
I have not been as lucky in finding/fixing the identical problem with my MA-290 saw. On top of the hard start problem, the saw just spews oil out of the oil to bar hole, as if it were a giant hole instead of little more than a pin hole. When I took it out of the case, the entire bottom of the case was in oil about 1/4" deep! Anyway, I finally got it apart and checked the gap on the ignition module & it was off just like the blower was, so I fixed that. The saw starts with a lot less pulls now but it still is hard to start when cold, and always starts on just about a 1/2 pull without the choke, when working with it and stopping & starting it as needed while working after the first start. When taking the covers off it to check the module gap, the first thing I noticed was that one of the 4 nylon bumpers was missing on the chain/bar cover. I reset the module gap, then had to take apart the brake/clutch drum and band to completely clean every part of the saw & degrease it all because of the spewing oil from the oiler hole and sawdust mixture that accumulated everywhere imaginable. I have ordered a new brake band & spring kit and clutch/drum for it because of the oil contamination and also because of some wear marks on them. I reassembled everything, and then tried starting it. Again, very hard to start, but I expected that because I had emptied and cleaned the tank and fuel filter so I pulled away at it and it finally started up. Ran it a bit, shut it down & tried again, & started no problem with one pull after warm up. I needed to use the saw today, and again, cold start almost impossible. I tried all the diff techniques listed here in this thread. I tried adjusting & readjusting the carb, had everything from flooding to fuel starving. The air filter didn't look bad, but cleaned hell out of it anyway, and set it up for colder temperature starting by flipping that black plastic piece and rotating the rubber plug seal to the other side. Got it started but wouldn't stay running, so played and tweaked the carb settings until it ran & stayed even tho it didn't sound right. I finally decided to leave the air filter off just for the hell of it, and that made it run well enough to finish tweaking the carb settings so it ran smooth and revved properly. Put it the filter & cover back on, then restarted it no problem. About 3 hours later, I finally get where I needed to be to use the saw, it started on the 3rd pull. Start cutting and it dies. Just for craps and giggles, I decided to try to start it and cut without the air filter on it. It ran like a brand new saw! So, I am now waiting on new filters because I have decided to get the nylon weave type instead of the felt paper type since it seems to clog very easily, not to mention that the filter cover can stay on with no filter in the saw. After I take it apart AGAIN to put in the new parts I will see how the new filters affect the running of the saw and see if I need to tweak the carb again or not. 
Anyone have any idea why the oiler is spewing oil out like it does? I closed the adjusting screw as far as it seems to go but that has not stopped the excessive oiling. I had in the past had it set to the E for the "Ematic" oiling, but closed it down more when I began noticing excessive oiling. It seemed ok, but the last time I used it it began oiling faster and faster. Then when I finished working with it earlier this year I put it in it's case and was shocked to see all the oil inside the case when I took it out the other day, and the oil tank was empty. There is no crack in the tank and after I started it and turned it off, I was took the bar cover plate off and was watching it just oozing out of the bar oiler hole. Also I noticed that the plugs seem to foul very easy in this saw. Any recommendations on what plug is best? I had already purchased 2 from the same dealer I got the saw at, and they were the Bosch plugs but they seem to foul very easily. The manual says Bosch or NKG. Also, the gap is about the smallest gap I have ever seen on any plug and the crappy plug gauges they sell these days along with the tiny size of the plugs, make it extremely hard to get the gap set to 0.5 mm. I know air/fuel mixture and flooding usually cause fouling but I can't believe that once it gets past the first start it has been running great. Can the adjustments be out enough to make starting hard but not enough to effect how it runs once it warms up & the plugs have been getting fouled on the cold hard starts? I have worked on engines all my life from 4 to 8 cylinders, but just can't seem to understand how these little 1 and 2 cylinder engines stump hell out of me.


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