# Advice on this removal/cleanup?



## dschroeder (Oct 13, 2017)

a friends HOA is looking to have this tree removed/cleaned up. (Storm took it out). Any advice on it? Be my first this size. Got a buddy helping that will take it for firewood. How do I bid this?


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## Del_ (Oct 13, 2017)

Bid it real cheap so you get it! The firewood is worth a fortune.


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## chipper1 (Oct 13, 2017)

Del_ said:


> Bid it real cheap so you get it! The firewood is worth a fortune.


Dang bro.

OP have you ever done storm cleanup.
Do you have a plan so that you do not damage the other trees.
No one here knows your experience, except what you've lead on with your question, so we know what you haven't done, but not what you have done.
What gear/equipment do you have/plan on using.


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## dschroeder (Oct 13, 2017)

This will be my first one of their size, as well as a leaner. Lots of experience cutting, helped drop/buck trees. Pic below is a recent dead drop I did for my HOA (rain came thru and flattened the grass/cat tails). We'll get it out of there once the ground is frozen

As for equip, 3 guys with saws from looking at it it should slide free of the tree it is leaning against. Not equipped to climb.


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## ATH (Oct 13, 2017)

Del_ said:


> Bid it real cheap so you get it! The firewood is worth a fortune.


And then walk away when you decide that you've spent the number of hours to cover your estimate.


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## dschroeder (Oct 13, 2017)

ATH said:


> And then walk away when you decide that you've spent the number of hours to cover your estimate.



Lol I couldn't do that, even as side work I'll finish what I started.


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## dschroeder (Oct 13, 2017)

Part of the equipment I forgot to list earlier is a 3/4 ton truck and 16ft gooseneck trailer that will be used to haul away


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## Greenerpastures (Oct 13, 2017)

If the other / standing tree does not matter, then start at the bottom of the fallen one
and cut the arm that is cuttently sticking up into the other tree,
then use a hand winch to pull it back off the other tree until it settles on the ground.

It really does depend on what the owner of the standing tree wants to do, if they want
it saved, then a lot more money for time and machinery, it would be way less hassle if the
fallen tree were not tangled, or if it was a stadning tree that you could climb and drop the
limbs where they would not hit the surrounding trees.


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## dschroeder (Oct 13, 2017)

Greenerpastures said:


> If the other / standing tree does not matter, then start at the bottom of the fallen one
> and cut the arm that is cuttently sticking up into the other tree,
> then use a hand winch to pull it back off the other tree until it settles on the ground.
> 
> ...




It's all on HOA property so only one " owner " to deal with. Going to take a look at it tomorrow and will post some more pictures. Hoping I get a contact person or a phone call from them today to see if they are interested.


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## chipper1 (Oct 13, 2017)

ATH said:


> And then walk away when you decide that you've spent the number of hours to cover your estimate.


I missed that one, wow.


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## chipper1 (Oct 13, 2017)

dschroeder said:


> This will be my first one of their size, as well as a leaner. Lots of experience cutting, helped drop/buck trees. Pic below is a recent dead drop I did for my HOA (rain came thru and flattened the grass/cat tails). We'll get it out of there once the ground is frozen
> 
> As for equip, 3 guys with saws from looking at it it should slide free of the tree it is leaning against. Not equipped to climb.
> 
> View attachment 606743


This one is a little different than that one .
You have some experience, but I promise if you take on this one you will quickly get a lot more, with experience being what you get when things don't go as planned.
Why not buck that tree in the cattails into logs and skid it out now rather than leave it lay, it looks about as bad laying in the ditch as it does standing.

Do you have insurance or some sort of plan to replace the concrete sidewalk if you damage it(it looks brand new.. What about the stump, how will you remove that, will you rent a grinder for the remaining roots.
Mitigating further damage to the surroundings should be part of a good plan.
Yes it "should" slide out of the tree it's in, where will you be when it does, are you familiar with the types of cuts needed to make this happen.
I'd advise you pass on this one. Then find out when the guys who have experience in this sort of work will be there and go and watch how it's done, hopefully you will not have to gain all your experience the hard way.


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## dschroeder (Oct 13, 2017)

I would love to get the one out of the cat tails but it is a low lying " wetland area" and we've had daily rain since I dropped it. We have a few weeks of dry weather coming so will get it out ASAP


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## dschroeder (Oct 13, 2017)

I do have liability insurance for doing other work around my HOA. I need to find out what they want done with the stump and hole still. Just found out about this last night


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## moondoggie (Oct 13, 2017)

$1,300 to leave the stump. $2,000 to remove stump and fill hole in with topsoil.

Edit: you will need to rent a mini excavator with a thumb to remove the stump.


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## chipper1 (Oct 13, 2017)

moondoggie said:


> $1,300 to leave the stump. $2,000 to remove stump and fill hole in with topsoil.
> 
> Edit: you will need to rent a mini excavator with a thumb to remove the stump.


So do you think he should go for it James.
To bad your not closer, I'd do the stump for you for less and you could make a few bucks extra off it .


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## dschroeder (Oct 13, 2017)

If they aren't super picky about the tree it's leaning in or stump removal I may give it a shot but I will take more pictures and upload them here this weekend


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## Greenerpastures (Oct 13, 2017)

I did not want to say it, but I agree with those who are pointing out this is
not so straight forward, lots of room to loose a lot of money, and every possability
to get hurt too.
People are fine, until you give them an opportunity to complain, so cover all your
options, and most of all, keep safe.


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## dschroeder (Oct 13, 2017)

Greenerpastures said:


> I did not want to say it, but I agree with those who are pointing out this is
> not so straight forward, lots of room to loose a lot of money, and every possability
> to get hurt too.
> People are fine, until you give them an opportunity to complain, so cover all your
> options, and most of all, keep safe.




Good point and I will openly admit I'm an amateur compared to most of you on here I'll get some better pictures for you guys to look at and give me some guidance on how to do it or just walk away


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## greengreer (Oct 13, 2017)

Before you think about how this could be done, call up your insurance co and ask if your GL policy covers tree work. 
Also, most people on this site are as amateur as you are so be careful who you take advice from. This may be called arborist site but there are more chainsaw junkies than actual arborist or tree pros here.
That's not exactly gonna be like just felling a standing tree, there's a ton of different pressure going on there and lots of weight to consider. You're not just gonna cut the root ball off and yank it out with the truck. 
If you really want the firewood or to make a bit on this, why not hire someone who has experience and proper insurance to get it safely to the ground and you can cleanup the mess. You might learn some great stuff watching.


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## moondoggie (Oct 13, 2017)

chipper1 said:


> So do you think he should go for it James.
> To bad your not closer, I'd do the stump for you for less and you could make a few bucks extra off it .


I can get an excavator for $150 a day 10,000 lb. But, he should make some money to haul it away and deal with the whole thing..

As far as recommending him to do it. I don't know his skill level. That tree could kill or cripple a man easily.


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## Greenerpastures (Oct 13, 2017)

Good points above, get a pro involved, learn from him, and make some money form
the clean up and the sale of the logs.

Regards, john


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 14, 2017)

chipper1 said:


> Dang bro.
> 
> OP have you ever done storm cleanup.
> Do you have a plan so that you do not damage the other trees.
> ...



I am pretty sure he was joking, it's a real tree guy thing, if you need us to bid your job, maybe you should work at Walmart.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 14, 2017)

dschroeder said:


> This will be my first one of their size, as well as a leaner. Lots of experience cutting, helped drop/buck trees. Pic below is a recent dead drop I did for my HOA (rain came thru and flattened the grass/cat tails). We'll get it out of there once the ground is frozen
> 
> As for equip, 3 guys with saws from looking at it it should slide free of the tree it is leaning against. Not equipped to climb.
> 
> View attachment 606743



How many man hours are you gonna bid on that? 
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 14, 2017)

dschroeder said:


> Lol I couldn't do that, even as side work I'll finish what I started.



Good, then you will learn.
Jeff


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## dschroeder (Oct 14, 2017)

Here's a few pics of it, trunk above stump is 24" across


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## dschroeder (Oct 14, 2017)

jefflovstrom said:


> I am pretty sure he was joking, it's a real tree guy thing, if you need us to bid your job, maybe you should work at Walmart.
> Jeff



Just was asking how I should bid it, was hoping the experienced would have advice


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## dschroeder (Oct 14, 2017)

Still waiting to hear back from the HOA rep on what they expect on the cleanup


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## no tree to big (Oct 14, 2017)

What do you mean how to bid it? Bid it to make money, duh. How long is it gonna take you? What's your hourly rate? 

Cut everything that is on ground, cut the two limbs in open air, release the trunk from remaining limbs, get everything possible out of the way, take as much off the hung up portion as possible, then throw a bull rope or chain on the hung limbs attach to truck and slide it on out.


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## chipper1 (Oct 15, 2017)

jefflovstrom said:


> I am pretty sure he was joking, it's a real tree guy thing, if you need us to bid your job, maybe you should work at Walmart.
> Jeff


I know, I've read a lot of you guys post through the years, some were helpful(and I did appreciate those)
I'm learning a lot myself, and as I was saying above, basically can you afford to learn/get experience.
I paid a small price myself this week, smashing my truck because of multiple errors I made.
To me that's part of the training/cost of doing business, and to a certain degree should be worked into every quote.


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## Del_ (Oct 15, 2017)

If you don't know how to bid it, you don't know how to do it.


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## chipper1 (Oct 15, 2017)

Del_ said:


> If you don't know how to bid it, you don't know how to do it.


Dad always said you don't get respect until you earn it, you are two peas in a pod.
People need to be given an opportunity to learn. Just because you/I've had to go to the school of hard knocks doesn't mean everything needs to be as hard for others.
I applaud that people actually want to work/learn, and enjoy helping people to do so.
So why is it you won't help someone, rather than being sarcastic. 
I find it odd how many people here would discourage someone from trying to start a tree service and are unwilling to help others.


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## Jed1124 (Oct 15, 2017)

Bidding on tree work is very simple. How many guys + how much per man hour + how long the job will take.
The easy part is how much per man hour. You get to set on price on how much you are worth. The market has some bearing on that but not as much as you think.
The hard part is determining how long the job will take with your skill set and equipment. This is where a lot of guys get in trouble. If you bid a job for 4 hours and it takes 8, you lost money.
Try and break each stage of the job up into pieces and assign a number of time to each piece. For instance: piecing apart the tree : 1.5 hours
Debris removal: 2 hours
Clean up, rake and blow: .5 hours
75 per man, 2 man crew=$150 per hour
150 p/h × 4 hours on sight= $600
These numbers are for an example only and are not meant for you to price this job. You need to input your numbers (your value + time on site) to determine your price.


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## dschroeder (Oct 15, 2017)

chipper1 said:


> Dad always said you don't get respect until you earn it, you are two peas in a pod.
> People need to be given an opportunity to learn. Just because you/I've had to go to the school of hard knocks doesn't mean everything needs to be as hard for others.
> I applaud that people actually want to work/learn, and enjoy helping people to do so.
> So why is it you won't help someone, rather than being sarcastic.
> I find it odd how many people here would discourage someone from trying to start a tree service and are unwilling to help others.



Thank you sir! All of the other tree work I've done around the neighborhood and small tree removals was obviously on a much smaller scale and I just billed my contracted hourly rate.


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## dschroeder (Oct 15, 2017)

Jed1124 said:


> Bidding on tree work is very simple. How many guys + how much per man hour + how long the job will take.
> The easy part is how much per man hour. You get to set on price on how much you are worth. The market has some bearing on that but not as much as you think.
> The hard part is determining how long the job will take with your skill set and equipment. This is where a lot of guys get in trouble. If you bid a job for 4 hours and it takes 8, you lost money.
> Try and break each stage of the job up into pieces and assign a number of time to each piece. For instance: piecing apart the tree : 1.5 hours
> ...




Thanks for that advice, i've been looking at it as one big job not individual tasks to complete the job.


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## ropensaddle (Oct 19, 2017)

dschroeder said:


> Here's a few pics of it, trunk above stump is 24" across
> 
> View attachment 607058
> View attachment 607059
> View attachment 607060


Put 2 million on it I would  Nah, seriously, I could do that alone in 5 to 8 hours depending on market 600 to 2k and myself here id try 750.00 and get underbid 350 lol


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## dschroeder (Oct 19, 2017)

Well...finally heard back from them. They had hired someone as soon as it was down (happened a few months ago) and they are allegedly going to do it this winter. Going to try and get on their contractor list for future work


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## ATH (Oct 19, 2017)

Can you find out what the other bid was? It might help you for future pricing and understanding what the market is a little bit. Then you can ask yourself if you would have been willing to do it for that much or if you could have done it for Less.


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## Greenerpastures (Oct 19, 2017)

ATH said:


> Can you find out what the other bid was? It might help you for future pricing and understanding what the market is a little bit. Then you can ask yourself if you would have been willing to do it for that much or if you could have done it for Less.


Seems like something is off to me, never heard of a guy so busy you would have to wait months
on him to take away One tree, hard to get people to go on a waiting list too for something that for safety
alone should be taken care of as soon as.
Either way, it would be good to be around to see how they tackle this job,
and examine the finished project, and see how the people who pay the bill react.


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## dschroeder (Oct 19, 2017)

I'll keep an eye on their neighborhood webpage which has all of their meeting minutes ( which include all expenses)

If I am able to get on the list for future removals I did notice walking around the area that so far all of the trees cut down just as the stump cut level with the ground by chainsaw.


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## dschroeder (Oct 19, 2017)

Greenerpastures said:


> Seems like something is off to me, never heard of a guy so busy you would have to wait months
> on him to take away One tree, hard to get people to go on a waiting list too for something that for safety
> alone should be taken care of as soon as.
> Either way, it would be good to be around to see how they tackle this job,
> and examine the finished project, and see how the people who pay the bill react.




Agreed, The sidewalk that the tree is blocking leads to a retirement apartment community. my friend has noticed lots of elderly people having to walk around it on black grass to get to the walking trails through the neighborhood. Thankfully no one has volunteered at by sadly it's probably just a matter of time until that happens


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## lknchoppers (Oct 20, 2017)

dschroeder said:


> Well...finally heard back from them. They had hired someone as soon as it was down (happened a few months ago) and they are allegedly going to do it this winter. Going to try and get on their contractor list for future work



Sounds fishy, like the guy they hired underbid it and won't really be doing it. A tree in a spot like that will need to be taken a lot sooner than that. You will probably get the job if you are persistent and want it. $2k should be fine and give you some wiggle room if it takes longer than you think.


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## chipper1 (Oct 20, 2017)

lknchoppers said:


> Sounds fishy, like the guy they hired underbid it and won't really be doing it. A tree in a spot like that will need to be taken a lot sooner than that. You will probably get the job if you are persistent and want it. $2k should be fine and give you some wiggle room if it takes longer than you think.


I dare say he will never get it for 2k, but I agree it sounds like something funny is going on with it.
I don't know the market where he is, but this is how things are usually done wherever I've been; you get it done right, you get it done now, you get it done cheap, pick any 2 of those. Since they have proven they don't care about getting it done now, and they have other tree stumps throughout the association, I'm guessing they are very cheap. I know I'm making a bunch of assumptions, but I'm calling it how I see it.
The exceptions to what I've what I've stated above would be if the guy that has "won the contract" is a relative of someone or is doing some favor for the job or something on those lines, or the HOA is very slow making decisions.


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