# Trying to get into the wood splitting business



## damato333 (Jul 7, 2012)

I just bought this log splitter in December and I'm trying to get into splitting other peoples wood for them. I figure for a tree company or a land clearing company it would be worth it cause they will be paid 2 or 3 times for the same wood. Also homeowners that had trees cut down or fall down and want firewood. I can do a cord in a little over an hour. If it's straight and no knots than an hour. I calculated it out and figured out that $100 an hour would cover my expenses. That includes my truck, log splitter, 2 people do the work, gas, and any clean up that is needed. I had one guy call me and he said he needed 60 cords split and he told me it was already cut into firewood length. I told him it would be $750 a day for an 8 hour day. I gave him a little break because of the volume of work. I thought that price was reasonable for everything that I am putting out. He told me he already got a qoute from a guy with a processor for $500 a day. I just don't believe that. That seems really low. If anyone can give me some input on this. Let me know if my quote is high, low, or right on. I also would like some input on how to go about getting people to pay me to split their wood.


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## no tree to big (Jul 7, 2012)

cant really comment on the prices but if its already cut into firewood length that dude with a processor is screwed... also I just want to clarify but when you say cord you mean 4x4x8 right, not a "face cord"4x4x16


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## damato333 (Jul 7, 2012)

I mean a true cord(4x4x8). If the guy with the wood was telling the truth about getting that qoute cause now I think he was lying.


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## Steve2910 (Jul 7, 2012)

Rates range from $30-$50/ hr on our local CL for 1 guy & a splitter. Not sure if they'd even stay busy @ those prices. 

Also, around here anyway- once you start putting $$ in someone's pocket as part of your firewood collecting efforts, you might as well shell out a few more bucks & buy seasoned cords.


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## Ironworker (Jul 7, 2012)

Good luck with your venture, what kind of splitter is that.


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## damato333 (Jul 7, 2012)

greyfox said:


> Good luck with your venture, what kind of splitter is that.



It's an all wood log splitter. At $30-$50 an hour its not even worth it for me to get out of bed. Those guys might be able to do 2 cords on a good day. On a bad day for me i can do 7 cords.


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## Ronaldo (Jul 7, 2012)

Looks like a very nice and well thought out splitter-good luck.

Ron


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## ShaneLogs (Jul 7, 2012)

X2, Nice splitter! I like the splitting piece in it.


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## rarefish383 (Jul 7, 2012)

You might get lucky and find a nitch market. Many years ago I had a firewood processor that ran off a 40 hp JD tractor. We were getting 100 bucks a cord then and I would split for 40 bucks a cord. I don't know any big tree companys that will split wood. Way too labor intensive. But, they will often put trees on the ground for a cheap home owner. If you got hooked up with a couple tree companies to recommend you, you may make a go of it, joe.


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## Wood Doctor (Jul 7, 2012)

*It's a Lost Cause...*



rarefish383 said:


> You might get lucky and find a nitch market. Many years ago I had a firewood processor that ran off a 40 hp JD tractor. We were getting 100 bucks a cord then and I would split for 40 bucks a cord. I don't know any big tree companys that will split wood. Way too labor intensive. But, they will often put trees on the ground for a cheap home owner. If you got hooked up with a couple tree companies to recommend you, you may make a go of it, joe.


I imagine I could split 40 cords of hardwood this summer and fall and I might make $1,500 while doing it. Meanwhile, I paid for all the fuel, oil, wear and tear on my splitter, etc. The money just ain't there. :msp_sad:


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## damato333 (Jul 7, 2012)

rarefish383 said:


> You might get lucky and find a nitch market. Many years ago I had a firewood processor that ran off a 40 hp JD tractor. We were getting 100 bucks a cord then and I would split for 40 bucks a cord. I don't know any big tree companys that will split wood. Way too labor intensive. But, they will often put trees on the ground for a cheap home owner. If you got hooked up with a couple tree companies to recommend you, you may make a go of it, joe.



I'm hooked up with a tree company in my area and all they do is drop the tree, chip the limbs, and cut the logs into manageable pieces. They call me to take it away as long as if its enough wood and if its close enough. I could call them and ask them to recommend me to homeowners that need there logs made into firewood.


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## rarefish383 (Jul 7, 2012)

Wood Doctor said:


> I imagine I could split 40 cords of hardwood this summer and fall and I might make $1,500 while doing it. Meanwhile, I paid for all the fuel, oil, wear and tear on my splitter, etc. The money just ain't there. :msp_sad:



Well, that's why I said "might make a go of it". It will be a nitch service. When I was a kid I did it, but was subsidised by my Dad's business. I paid 3500 bucks for the splitter, around 1975, and my Dad felt sorry for me and paid me back for it, since I was using it for the business too. Then I took the money he gave me back and bought a 4 cylinder diesel JD. Plus, I mooched the fuel from the company. So, as you say. It's a lot of work for a small return. As a company we hated firewood, just too labor intensive. But, we had a couple guys that we gauranteed pay rain or shine. If it was raining too hard to work we'd dump a couple loads of wood in the barn and let them split for four hours, buy them lunch, and then cut them loose early. It will be hard to find that much splittin work for 5 days a week. Still, good luck, Joe.


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## RAMROD48 (Jul 7, 2012)

damato333 said:


> It's an all wood log splitter. At $30-$50 an hour its not even worth it for me to get out of bed. Those guys might be able to do 2 cords on a good day. On a bad day for me i can do 7 cords.



So stay in bed....if you get into the firewood business to make a living, your gonna starve to death and loose your house...

But you have fun with that...

Not being a #### here, just telling you, some of us have been there done that...I love cutting and splitting and making enough money to buy saws and saw supplies and an egg and cheese sandwich every so often....

But beyond that you are kidding your self....


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## damato333 (Jul 7, 2012)

At $750 a day it's not like I would be rich. There are a lot of expenses that go along with the work. It's not like I went out to home depot and bought a $1,000 pos log splitter. Around me a cord sells for $200. So for someone that already has logs and didn't buy them it's worth it.


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## RAMROD48 (Jul 7, 2012)

I sell every cord (all 100 I sell per year for at least 200) 

you allready said that the guy balked at 750....

IF and thats a big IF, you make 750 a day, you would be doing pretty good...

you wont though...

I dont have a POS splitter or saws...and I have big equipment...if I clear 100-150 a day I am stoked...

Fire wood is blood money...stay as small as you can...


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## Patrick62 (Jul 7, 2012)

*lotsa luck*

That sure is a purty splitter tho 

do the math... what does a cord sell for in PA anyway?? How much of that is the wood worth? How much is it to get it cut? Then how much is left?

Here in Colorado the numbers are slightly different, but the result is the same "there ain't $$$ in firewood".

In the yard, splitting with my splitter, I pay $18 a cord to the guy splitting. That is being pretty nice. I have run a cord an hour many times, but I am not capable of keeping it up past about 2 cords... you guys must be really really strong to do 7 cords in a day. that would only be around 35,000 pounds of thru put.

sincerely,
-Pat


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## damato333 (Jul 7, 2012)

RAMROD48 said:


> I sell every cord (all 100 I sell per year for at least 200)
> 
> you allready said that the guy balked at 750....
> 
> ...



I never said you have a pos log splitter. I think were at two different points. I payed over $8,000 for the splitter. I think I need to make sure I recoup that money in about 5 years. Splitting wood puts a lot of wear on all the components on a splitter. At about 5 years its possible to have an engine go and if the splitter didn't make that money back then I'm screwed. If I were to go out and start splitting for $50 an hour then I would be putting more wear on the splitter and risk it breaking down before I recoup the investment. Its not like there's a lot of people that want wood split(even if I was charging $50 an hour). So I need to make sure I cover my ass on the jobs I do get.


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## damato333 (Jul 7, 2012)

Patrick62 said:


> That sure is a purty splitter tho
> 
> do the math... what does a cord sell for in PA anyway?? How much of that is the wood worth? How much is it to get it cut? Then how much is left?
> 
> Around me a cord sells for $200.


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## spike60 (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm not sure this is a sound business plan. You're formula is based on recouping the cost of the splitter in 5 years, and you've arrived at charging $100 an hour/$750 a day? Does that include cutting it to length? I know guys with $100,000 excavators that charge that much. The other problem you face is that the value off a cord of wood remains constant regardless of whether you have an $8000 spiltter or a $40,000 processor. As is being discussed in the "no money in firewood" thread, this is a pretty small pie to split up. The norm for most guys is to make between $25 and $50 per hour, and you're shooting for twice that amount.

You propose to charge about $100 per cord to split someone else's wood, which if dropped by a tree company, already has some cost associated with it. The same math would apply to someone buying a log load of wood @ $100 per cord, and then paying you another $100 to block and split it. At that point, we've arrived at the same price as simply buying split wood, so why would anyone go through the hassle? 

I'm not saying you can't make money with your splitter, but I think you're aiming way to high with the $100 an hour number. Cripes, if you could get $100 an hour to split firewood half the guys on this site would quit their jobs. :msp_biggrin:


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## jrider (Jul 8, 2012)

I don't know of anyone who would pay that to have wood split. As others have discussed, it comes to a point where its easier and damn near the same price just to have split wood delivered. With that being said, good luck on your venture and keep us posted. 

These guys advertise on CL all the time and they are getting $75 an hour.

Lucky Strike Log Splitting

And here is another thats a little closer to you - I think

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/for/3064797470.html


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## Patrick62 (Jul 8, 2012)

*return on investment?*

I was working for a store here a few years ago. They put in a rental area. And some darn nice equipment as well! most of the daily rentals were based upon 10% of the initial investment. rent it 10 times and you paid for it!! Looks great on paper.

I would be back there quoting rentals, and they would walk away. Most of the stuff just sat there gathering dust. A hydraulic tiller went out and tilled 3 times in 4 years, but twice it was to my mothers garden (employee perk). Think it will ever pay for itself? atleast it won't get worn out!

I got a guy working as a independent contractor cutting down trees for me. His saws, fuel, etc. He is getting $25 an hour. That is about as high as I can go. It is tough. Blood money for sure. I might make 10% on the wood here if we don't break anything expensive....

-Pat


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## owbguy (Jul 8, 2012)

its in the $35 per hour range here in southwest Michigan.
The thing you need to drive home is what you can do in that "hour" that the other guys can't do. You need to show people that they are getting a good deal. Your $100 per hour needs to produce better than the three hours from the $35 per hour guy. Quality and credibility go a long way, but sheer output is what most people with measure as the difference.
In terms of your investment, most people figure they already have the splitter, so its a fixed cost. They are looking to cover incidental costs and their hourly rate, and then a little something more for the fixed costs.
I would suggest taking a few jobs even if the prices are lower than you want. Work, then see how the money stacks up against your expenses. You may find that its ok. You may find that you can get a better rate based on your output and your customers' satisfaction. You need to start somewhere, and the key to that is starting...


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## Locust Cutter (Jul 8, 2012)

Patrick62 said:


> That sure is a purty splitter tho
> 
> do the math... what does a cord sell for in PA anyway?? How much of that is the wood worth? How much is it to get it cut? Then how much is left?
> 
> ...



What Part of CO? I've got ties to family ground a bit outside of Salida and spent a bit of time while growing up in Buena Vista and Leadville.


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## Garmins dad (Jul 8, 2012)

That is a very nice splitter.. :msp_thumbup: Around here two guys a bobcat with a grapple, log splitter and two chain saws show up. For 1000 bucks there is 5 to 7 cords (full cords) stacked at the end of day two and my bush line is cleaned up. I would hope your log splitter would last a lot longer then 5 years at that price. I think your figuring the price of your equipment replacement far too short of time. 

I get 50 a hour with my 60 hp jd tractor and 6 foot brush mower. It's the going rate.. 

I hope it does work for ya..


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2012)

jrider said:


> I don't know of anyone who would pay that to have wood split. As others have discussed, it comes to a point where its easier and damn near the same price just to have split wood delivered. With that being said, good luck on your venture and keep us posted.
> 
> These guys advertise on CL all the time and they are getting $75 an hour.
> 
> ...



Ok I can admit that I might be a little high. So I'll drop it down to $80 an hour. Those first guys have a fly wheel splitter. First knot they hit they won't know what to do. And they don't have a log lift so how are those guys going to split a 100 pound log. And how come you didn't mention they carge $100 an hour for logs larger than 24 inches. What are they going to do measure every log to check if it's 24 inches. It'll turn into $100 an hour for one 24 inch log and 5 cords of 12 inch logs. The last guy is charging $35 an hour so he is probably using a vertical splitter. If it's a vertical splitter that is basically stealing money cause he will end up making more money than me for splitting the same amount wood cause it'll take him 2 or 3 times as long as me.


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## redheadwoodshed (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> Ok I can admit that I might be a little high. So I'll drop it down to $80 an hour. Those first guys have a fly wheel splitter. First knot they hit they won't know what to do. And they don't have a log lift so how are those guys going to split a 100 pound log. And how come you didn't mention they carge $100 an hour for logs larger than 24 inches. What are they going to do measure every log to check if it's 24 inches. It'll turn into $100 an hour for one 24 inch log and 5 cords of 12 inch logs. The last guy is charging $35 an hour so he is probably using a vertical splitter. If it's a vertical splitter that is basically stealing money cause he will end up making more money than me for splitting the same amount wood cause it'll take him 2 or 3 times as long as me.



That's why I would charge by the rick.Figure out how long it would, on average take you to split a rick and go from there.


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## mikereynolds (Jul 8, 2012)

*Sounds to me you don't want advise at all*

After reading this thread Iit's my understanding that you asked for advise and debate with those that offered the wisdom you requested. I've been in this game a long time as many others here. We been there done that and learned along the way and are willing to share such knowledge in an effort to reduce useless effort from someone that wants to learn. For you, go out into the world my friend and give it 110% You never know. report back and let us know this time next year how it is working out for you. I offer that service as well but instead of money that is hard to extract from a client's wallet, I keep 1/2 the wood and sell it to make my money. I don't get many takers even on that good of a deal.


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## Locust Cutter (Jul 8, 2012)

*Hmmmmm,...*

I'd have to agree w/Mike. Have you ever personally used or witnessed a flywheel splitter in action? Knots are NOT a problem, and Sunfish can attest to that. If a guy using a vertical is going to take 2-3x the amount of time you will, then if charging the same he'll make 1/2-1/3 the net money you will, as a function of $$$ divided by time. That's pretty simple math. If you don't want advice, or are just going to do what you wanted in the first place, don't solicit advice. At least have the class and respect not to be completely argumentative to those who are trying to let you learn vicariously through their own experience, w/o having to make the same mistakes yourself. I wish you the best.:msp_confused:


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2012)

mikereynolds said:


> After reading this thread Iit's my understanding that you asked for advise and debate with those that offered the wisdom you requested. I've been in this game a long time as many others here. We been there done that and learned along the way and are willing to share such knowledge in an effort to reduce useless effort from someone that wants to learn. For you, go out into the world my friend and give it 110% You never know. report back and let us know this time next year how it is working out for you. I offer that service as well but instead of money that is hard to extract from a client's wallet, I keep 1/2 the wood and sell it to make my money. I don't get many takers even on that good of a deal.



Read all of my posts first and then tell me I'm not taking advice. I already conceded and said I think I might lowe it to $80 an hour. But it seems like I would be better off going out and buying a $1,000 vertical splitter and charging $35 an hour cause I will end up making more money. I don't know who would pay that cause you might as well just use the cash in your stove to heat your house. At $80 an hour I think I am reasonable compared to a vertical splitter at $35-$50 an hour. With my splitter I get more production so I have to charge more.


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## Swamp Yankee (Jul 8, 2012)

Agree and disagree

On the plus side, unlike a lot of people in the wood business, you're thinking about your costs which include both labor / time and the machine. If you're going to work you are entitled to make a profit. That said at the $100 per hour rate I wouldn't sit by the phone waiting.

Tree services and landscapers that I know in the area that sell wood process it themselves. With the wood as a by product of the business, they will have a splitter in the yard and use the processing of firewood as a fill in job to keep the help busy when things are slow or if they finish a job early in the day and don't want to start the next until the following day. They are not paying these guys anywhere near $100 per hour.

On the homeowner front I guarantee they will balk. On the few times I'm approached to cut and split a takedown for a customer I price out at $35 per hour for man and machinery. I tell them straight up its $280 cash for an 8 hour day. I then tell them if they wish to do it themselves, I tell them where they can rent a T'Wolf TW-2 for $150 a weekend, they usually thank me and go that route. 

I do wish you luck with your endeavor, but there is a reality that the service you wish to sell is not high demand.

Take Care


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## redheadwoodshed (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> Read all of my posts first and then tell me I'm not taking advice. I already conceded and said I think I might lowe it to $80 an hour. But it seems like I would be better off going out and buying a $1,000 vertical splitter and charging $35 an hour cause I will end up making more money. I don't know who would pay that cause you might as well just use the cash in your stove to heat your house. At $80 an hour I think I am reasonable compared to a vertical splitter at $35-$50 an hour. With my splitter I get more production so I have to charge more.



Will that be split and stacked?


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2012)

Swamp Yankee said:


> Agree and disagree
> 
> On the plus side, unlike a lot of people in the wood business, you're thinking about your costs which include both labor / time and the machine. If you're going to work you are entitled to make a profit. That said at the $100 per hour rate I wouldn't sit by the phone waiting.
> 
> ...



How long does it take you to split a cord?


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## 2treeornot2tree (Jul 8, 2012)

I have a amish guy come out with a firewood processor for all my log length wood. He charges $30 a hour and he can split about 1.5 cords a hour.







Once wood is cut to length which, most cases when i bring it home from a tree job it is, i can split a cord of wood in just over a hour with a old horizontal / vertical spliter. Your numbers sound right ( $40 per hour per person, plus fuel/ equipment) but around here, you wont get anyone to pay that per hour for spliting. You can rent a spliter for under $200 a day. Here is my pile thats for sale. I split it all with my horz / vert single wedge spliter.


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2012)

If some of you guys that gave advice think I 'm arrogant, sorry about that. But I'm stubborn. I think I should make more then some guy with a vertical splitter that will take a week to split the same amount of wood that I can split in a day. What does everyone think about $80 an hour?


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## 2treeornot2tree (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> If some of you guys that gave advice think I 'm arrogant, sorry about that. But I'm stubborn. I think I should make more then some guy with a vertical splitter that will take a week to split the same amount of wood that I can split in a day. What does everyone think about $80 an hour?



Your local market will dictate the price. I bet i could split more wood with my little spliter then you could with that, expecially 24" and bigger stuff. I found on the spliters like yours with the lifts that they will only lift so much. I can split a big piece on the ground much faster, but small stuff you might beat me.


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I have a amish guy come out with a firewood processor for all my log length wood. He charges $30 a hour and he can split about 1.5 cords a hour.
> 
> [url]http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=244428&d=1341762[/url]
> 
> That sounds really cheap.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> That sounds really cheap.



he is amish after all.


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Your local market will dictate the price. I bet i could split more wood with my little spliter then you could with that, expecially 24" and bigger stuff. I found on the spliters like yours with the lifts that they will only lift so much. I can split a big piece on the ground much faster, but small stuff you might beat me.



You might be right. But the lifts not the problem. I think I can lift 300 pounds with the lift and I rarely get wood that big. Once I split a big log I might have to lift a 100 pound piece back on to the splitter. So thats where you might beat me. It all depends on kind of wood, how the grain is, and how big the wood is.


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I have a amish guy come out with a firewood processor for all my log length wood. He charges $30 a hour and he can split about 1.5 cords a hour.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That had to have cost him over $12,000. Nice setup though. I love your conveyor. A conveyor is the next thing I need.


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## ddhlakebound (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> If some of you guys that gave advice think I 'm arrogant, sorry about that. But I'm stubborn. I think I should make more then some guy with a vertical splitter that will take a week to split the same amount of wood that I can split in a day. What does everyone think about $80 an hour?



As has been mentioned, I think you'd be better off getting customers by charging by volume. By the cubic foot, face cord, cord or however you wish. 

If I were looking for someone to split wood, I damn sure wouldn't agree to any hourly deal where I don't know what I'm getting for my money. What if (insert a thousand excuses or difficulties here) happened, and you were only able to produce 2/3 of your normal output for the day? No thanks. I'm in no hurry to have wood split. I could care less if it takes a day, or three, or a week, as long as I know what it costs up front.

Have you EVER heard "Man, I've gotta have that pile split today, no matter what"?

You want to charge a premium to do the easiest part of firewood making. The wood has already been cut, hauled, dumped in one spot. The vast majority of the liability and danger is gone. Somebody else already assumed those risks, you get the easy part. 

Compared to saws, chippers, and stump grinders, wood splitters are light on maintenance. And far lower parts cost than chippers and stumpers. 

It's a very nice wood splitter. But the wood that comes off of it burns just the same as any other splitter out there. Yours doesn't make it burn hotter or last longer, it doesn't make less ash, and it doesn't dry the wood as it goes through.

The bottom line is, how much is it worth to have a cord of round wood turned into split wood. In a $200/cord market, it's not $100. Or even $80.


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## RAMROD48 (Jul 8, 2012)

You bought an $8000 splitter thinking you would strike it rich...

maybe your plan should have started with finding out what the going rate is for splitting wood...


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2012)

RAMROD48 said:


> You bought an $8000 splitter thinking you would strike it rich...
> 
> maybe your plan should have started with finding out what the going rate is for splitting wood...



Splitting wood for other people was not why originally bought the splittet. I originally bought it to split wood for myself. And I don't want to "strike it rich". I Just don't want to go out waste my time by working for nothing.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> That had to have cost him over $12,000. Nice setup though. I love your conveyor. A conveyor is the next thing I need.



Pretty sure he said it cost $25,000


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## spike60 (Jul 8, 2012)

The discussion is revolving too much around the hourly rate, which is based in part on the original cost of the splitter. The real bottom line, as has been pointed out is what is the final cost of a cord of wood for the end user. In your market of $200 a cord for split wood, your proposed splitting service must be able to undercut that $200 mark by at least $50 to get people interested. After all, with the rounds sitting there waiting for you, an awful lot of the work, (dropping, limbing, dealing with the brush, cutting the wood to length), has already been done by someone else. If that work was done by a tree service, the property owner has spent a fair amount of money to get that far. There may be some times where a homeowner has a tree or two taken down, and would pay you to split it. But if it's just one or two trees, there may not be enough wood to make the trip worthwhile for you. And the people most likely to call you will be folks with enormous sized blocks of wood that will be way more labor intensive than the average firewood log. 

Now, charging by the cord has a few logistical problems of it's own. You pull into someones yard and there's a big pile of wood there. It's tough to accurately estimate how many cords are in that pile. The only way to be sure is to stack it as you go, but that would add a bunch of labor to the project. 

Not trying to shoot down your idea; just trying to point of a few things that you might run into. You got yourself a nice splitter, and you're ready to dig in and go to work, (and I admire being stubborn). But I think it's best to get as much wood from the tree companies you are hooked up with and process and sell the wood yourself. Then you are dealing in the known quanity of $200 for a cord of wood. But to try and insert yourself into the middle of the process and just do the splitting exposes you to an ever changing set of variables where the numbers are seldom going to come out right.


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## owbguy (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> Splitting wood for other people was not why originally bought the splittet. *I originally bought it to split wood for myself.* And I don't want to "strike it rich". I Just don't want to go out waste my time by working for nothing.



This is what you need to keep in mind. Focus on this fact, and then realize that when you split extra wood it pays for the splitter you need for your own purposes.

If you want to make money then I would consider selling firewood rather than offering a splitting service. Either way, focus on that $8,000 being a fixed (sunk) cost, and any revenue generated over incidental costs being recoupment of that cost.


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2012)

spike60 said:


> The discussion is revolving too much around the hourly rate, which is based in part on the original cost of the splitter. The real bottom line, as has been pointed out is what is the final cost of a cord of wood for the end user. In your market of $200 a cord for split wood, your proposed splitting service must be able to undercut that $200 mark by at least $50 to get people interested. After all, with the rounds sitting there waiting for you, an awful lot of the work, (dropping, limbing, dealing with the brush, cutting the wood to length), has already been done by someone else. If that work was done by a tree service, the property owner has spent a fair amount of money to get that far. There may be some times where a homeowner has a tree or two taken down, and would pay you to split it. But if it's just one or two trees, there may not be enough wood to make the trip worthwhile for you. And the people most likely to call you will be folks with enormous sized blocks of wood that will be way more labor intensive than the average firewood log.
> 
> Now, charging by the cord has a few logistical problems of it's own. You pull into someones yard and there's a big pile of wood there. It's tough to accurately estimate how many cords are in that pile. The only way to be sure is to stack it as you go, but that would add a bunch of labor to the project.
> 
> Not trying to shoot down your idea; just trying to point of a few things that you might run into. You got yourself a nice splitter, and you're ready to dig in and go to work, (and I admire being stubborn). But I think it's best to get as much wood from the tree companies you are hooked up with and process and sell the wood yourself. Then you are dealing in the known quanity of $200 for a cord of wood. But to try and insert yourself into the middle of the process and just do the splitting exposes you to an ever changing set of variables where the numbers are seldom going to come out right.



I agree with everything you said. The only way to accurately charge by the cord is if I stacked all the wood I split for someone. And if I had split that 60 cords for that guy there is no way I would stack all of that. I guess I will try focusing on selling wood that I split.


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## Swamp Yankee (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> How long does it take you to split a cord?



Fill in the blanks

Am I working off a pile of tree length in the landing or a takedown that's on uneven or uphill terrain with lots of brush, stumps, and rocks to trip over?

How big and what species is the wood?

Is the wood straight grain run or full of knots and crotches?

How close to the wood can I get my splitter?

How often will I have to move the splitter?

Is there room to get the big pieces with a bucket or do I need to noodle and drag with a hookeroon?

What size am I making the splits? 24 inch OWB or Wood / Oil boiler split big, 12 to 14 inches split small for a Jotul 702 or somewhere in between?

What am I doing with the splits after, leaving in a pile at the end of the outfeed, throwing them into the bed of a truck, etc?

Who does the raking and clean-up of the sawdust and splitter trash?

In short, the time on the splitter matters little. The logistics of getting wood on and off the splitter takes the biggest amount of time. My TW2-HD has auto-cycle so the splitting time is spent staging the next piece. Working alone it is waiting for me most of the time except under the best conditions.

In answer to the question about $80 / hour, as I said before feel free to charge whatever you wish just be aware there is not a lot of demand for the service and you'll be in competition with the beer money crowd.

Take Care


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## ddhlakebound (Jul 8, 2012)

spike60 said:


> Now, charging by the cord has a few logistical problems of it's own. You pull into someones yard and there's a big pile of wood there. It's tough to accurately estimate how many cords are in that pile. The only way to be sure is to stack it as you go, but that would add a bunch of labor to the project.



No real need to estimate beforehand, and it can be measured after splitting as a loose thrown pile. A loose thrown pile of 16" firewood is 180 cu. ft.. 

To measure the volume of a cone shaped pile, use this formula:

V = 1/3 * pi (3.14) * radius squared * height. 

If that seems like too much trouble, and stacking to measure is necessary, it should only be a few cords before measuring and math start to look pretty good. 

Just as an example, 2tree's pic of the pile under the elevator I'd estimate from the pic to be roughly 11' tall, and 20' diameter. (10' radius) So....

.33 x 3.14 x 100 x 11 = 1139.82 cu. ft. or 6.33 cords of loose thrown wood. Of course, that's only as accurate as my estimation of the height and diameter of the pile.


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## ponyexpress976 (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> I'm hooked up with a tree company in my area and all they do is drop the tree, chip the limbs, and cut the logs into manageable pieces. They call me to take it away as long as if its enough wood and if its close enough. I could call them and ask them to recommend me to homeowners that need there logs made into firewood.



One thing for sure is it never hurts to ask.


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## jrider (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> Ok I can admit that I might be a little high. So I'll drop it down to $80 an hour. Those first guys have a fly wheel splitter. First knot they hit they won't know what to do. And they don't have a log lift so how are those guys going to split a 100 pound log. And how come you didn't mention they carge $100 an hour for logs larger than 24 inches. What are they going to do measure every log to check if it's 24 inches. It'll turn into $100 an hour for one 24 inch log and 5 cords of 12 inch logs. The last guy is charging $35 an hour so he is probably using a vertical splitter. If it's a vertical splitter that is basically stealing money cause he will end up making more money than me for splitting the same amount wood cause it'll take him 2 or 3 times as long as me.



This is by no means a dig on you and your thinking but if a guy couldn't lift a 100 pound log on his own, he shouldn't even think about doing this kind of work. And they have 2 guys. I split a lot of wood and would love to upgrade to a larger model with a log lift but I sure as hell wouldn't be using it on 100 pound logs because it would slow me down too much.


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2012)

jrider said:


> This is by no means a dig on you and your thinking but if a guy couldn't lift a 100 pound log on his own, he shouldn't even think about doing this kind of work. And they have 2 guys. I split a lot of wood and would love to upgrade to a larger model with a log lift but I sure as hell wouldn't be using it on 100 pound logs because it would slow me down too much.



I can lift a 100 pound log but it's not like I want to do it more than a few times a day. Even though I can do it it doesn't mean I want to. Stop lying that was a dig and it was a pretty good one:msp_tongue:.


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## zogger (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> Read all of my posts first and then tell me I'm not taking advice. I already conceded and said I think I might lowe it to $80 an hour. But it seems like I would be better off going out and buying a $1,000 vertical splitter and charging $35 an hour cause I will end up making more money. I don't know who would pay that cause you might as well just use the cash in your stove to heat your house. At $80 an hour I think I am reasonable compared to a vertical splitter at $35-$50 an hour. With my splitter I get more production so I have to charge more.



I'd skip that charging by the hour stuff. Charge by the cord. That's how wood is sold, so it is the figure people want to discuss and are familiar with. You don't have to explain anything to anyone then, and joe customer can decide what is is worth, if your service makes more sense than buying his own 1000 buck splitter and doing it himself.

I know I would think twice over a 750 a day figure because you can near buy a new one and get a lot more than ten or whatever cords out of it, even just splitting now and then in your spare time. 750 is a lot for someone to come up- with.

Heck man, I am a scawny old guy now and can bust 1/8th of a cord a day in spare evening time by hand, total fifty dollar equipment investment, and most likely 1/4 cord if it is mostly all straight grained and I skip and chuck all the uglies into the bummer pile. And it doesn't take all that long, either.

So what is it worth to a customer? What you can get. No takers at 750 a day or 80-100 an hour, try by the cord instead. How much, can't say, maybe 40 bucks? See 40 sounds a lot less than 100 an hour, but, if you can put out three cord or better an hour..see? The customer is happy,you have made even more than you thought.

Marketing is tricky. It is half of any business, the "work" of the business is the other half. A little bit extra thought in how you are selling yourself will go a long way.


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## Steve2910 (Jul 8, 2012)

zogger said:


> I'd skip that charging by the hour stuff. Charge by the cord. That's how wood is sold, so it is the figure people want to discuss and are familiar with.


 
The problem w/ that is you're going to get a lot of requests to split big/ nasty wood. Everybody loves a bargain & most don't mind getting one by taking advantage of "the other guy". You'll either work yourself to death earning your (priced too low) "per cord" $$, or (if you price your service so that you're actually making $$) they're going to realize they could get a cord delivered for what you're charging. 

As you alluded to, not a lot of calls to split straight grained Red Oak or Tulip Poplar, most people would just bust that stuff up by hand themselves.


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## rmount (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> I think I should make more then some guy with a vertical splitter that will take a week to split the same amount of wood that I can split in a day. What does everyone think about $80 an hour?



I think you're going to have a real hard time selling that argument to customers. Why not drop the whole by the hour thing and charge by the cord. That way, if they've been paying someone $35/hr to split a cord in 3 hours they'll be real happy to get your bill for only $80 and have the job done sooner.


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## spidermonkey17 (Jul 8, 2012)

damato333 said:


> I can lift a 100 pound log but it's not like I want to do it more than a few times a day. Even though I can do it it doesn't mean I want to. Stop lying that was a dig and it was a pretty good one:msp_tongue:.



i would just quarter it and pick up 25 pounds four times:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

I agree with what a lot of people are saying and i think you have the correct idea going with the firewood processing and making some money back that you spent on the splitter but here is another way to think about marketing yourself to your customers.

First all i can tell you no customer is going to want for you to be on there property for a day or more splitting firewood, especially if you are in a nice neighborhood. They are going to want that wood backed in to there driveway, dropped and stacked and you gone with the money for that load of wood. Just point blank that is the way they want it, its one thing if they have tree work going on there and its several days that they are going to be on site that's fine they don't want someone standing there for hours splitting wood on there property.

If i were you i would hook up with a couple reputable tree companies in the area and see if they can drop the logs off at your property to be split then advertise wherever you can for firewood. Let them put your name out and you also put your name out, and see what happens


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## ponyexpress976 (Jul 8, 2012)

I've only ever had one taker charging above $60/hr. Had a few at $35/hr but felt like I busted my A$$ AND NEVER MADE ANY COIN. The key to making a go in the world of firewood is to keep as many expenses as close to zero as humanly possible. Get as much wood dumped at your site as you can. Process into firewood only when a more effecient dollar can't be made(rainy days, slow times throughout the year, etc). Deliver the finished product only if you have to...helping to load someone else's truck is a lot better than loading your own, driving it, unloding, and returning. If it's been said once it's been said a thousand times...the best way to make a million dollars selling firewood is to start with two.


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## mitch95100 (Jul 8, 2012)

I cant even split my own wood let alone someone elses


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## mikereynolds (Jul 9, 2012)

*You got good advise over and over!*

Now what are you gonna do with it? Here's an anticdote for you....A backhoe cost about $85,000 new...I need to get $100 bucks per hour to make it pay for itself. I rarely charge by the hour so I don't have to justify the "perceived high hourly rate" so I charge by the job and the client can put a set price on his investment. For example, I might bid a septic leach field dig & backfil for $1100 and usually be done in less than 8 hours. do the math...It's simple psychology.


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## Gavman (Jul 9, 2012)

mikereynolds said:


> Now what are you gonna do with it? Here's an anticdote for you....A backhoe cost about $85,000 new...I need to get $100 bucks per hour to make it pay for itself. I rarely charge by the hour so I don't have to justify the "perceived high hourly rate" so I charge by the job and the client can put a set price on his investment. For example, I might bid a septic leach field dig & backfil for $1100 and usually be done in less than 8 hours. do the math...It's simple psychology.



Yes thats the way to do it, I just quoted demo and removal of a single car garage plus foundations for 2600, one days work for me with about 7 to 800 in expenses.... But I am bringing over $120,000 worth of equipment there for the job, I would be way less interested in doing it hourly and making say 800 for the day....


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## lmbrman (Jul 9, 2012)

Curious thing has been going on around here in the firewood business. firewood stacks are being assessed as personal property and taxed on the property tax bill if there is any hint is it a business.

Several loggers around here do firewood as a sideline on account of the cash, but they are throwin in the towel after being taxed for inventory.

lots of money in firewood, but tough to get the money back outta it.


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## Steve NW WI (Jul 9, 2012)

Lots of good advice here. I suggest you give up on the stubborn for a bit and listen to the voices of experience.

The best advice is just above, bid by the job. Check out the wood to be split in advance, and give em a total price. 5 cords of tree service elm crotches is gonna take longer to split than nice straight oak. 

Secondly, get some paint worn off that splitter and see what you can actually do. If 2 guys can only do a cord an hour, those are two guys that ain't working very hard. Guys that aren't working hard for themselves go broke fast.

Yeah, I'm a little cranky today. Your comments about not being worth getting out of bed for $50 per hour didn't help that.

The only ways to make good money in most any production business is to do it faster and cheaper (your costs, not necessarily the price), or to find a corner of the market no one else is in.


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## D&B Mack (Jul 9, 2012)

I have a bundled firewood business, I send out our Iron & Oak vertical/horizontal and DR Rapid Fire on splitting when they are not being used in the lot. I used to send out the TW-7, but it really wasn't worth it.

Here is what I have learned:

1. Bid the job as lump sum. Many people are afraid of hourly rates since it is an unknown cost. We usually make more money on lump sum as well.

2. Your rate will be set by two things, the bottom will by set by your costs and desired profit margin. The ceiling will be set by the market.

3. Referral work tends to bring higher dollar amounts than classified work does. Get in with the Tree Cos. Their professional reference will harvest a higher rate than you can get by competing on Craigslist.

4. Our flywheel splitter is faster than our I&O. And it is much cheaper to operate than the TW7.

5. If your main purchase was for your own use, then take the replacement cost out of your rate. Doesn't mean you can't charge 80 or 100; but it will lower your floor allowing you more flexibility in your rate.

6. Know what your production is on your bad days. You don't want to assume your good days when pricing, only to let a bad day cost you a ton of money.

7. Be flexible in the services you offer. Ever customer may be different. Clean-up, stacking, etc.

8. Be a salesman, explain why someone should pay your (higher) rate than over someone else.


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## blackdogon57 (Jul 9, 2012)

I don't care how you slice it. Nobody in their right mind will pay anywhere near $100 per hour to have a cord of wood split.


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## cantoo (Jul 9, 2012)

blackdogon57, they might do it once but they sure won't do it twice. Local place here sells log length maple or ash for $300 per load (small truck) you end up with about 10 face cord at 16" long. I've bought 5 or 6 loads off him and they were all pretty close. My buddy sells it for $80 a face cord, not doing so well with selling though. Local Amish sell for $55 a facex 16", they deliver and stack, well 2 boys about 10 show up with a hay wagon full of wood and they unload and pile it. I think they expect a tip? My niee gets her wood from them. Don't think anybody is making much money. You don't want to know how much I have invested in wood equipment and only burn 6 or 7 full cord a year.


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## blackdogon57 (Jul 9, 2012)

Wish I could buy logs that cheap. Log length cost in this area (Oshawa) is now around $150-190 per cord plus 13% tax.


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## owbguy (Jul 10, 2012)

blackdogon57 said:


> Log length cost in this area (Oshawa) is now around $150-190 per cord plus 13% tax.



:jawdrop: Holy cow, that is really high compared to here in southwest Michigan where $135 gets you a cord of seasoned oak delivered and stacked (at least that's what the CL ads state). Firewood logs cost about $90 per cord. We don't have a good market for firewood sales, unless you are the buyer. It seems like everything here except firewood costs more than anywhere else. Two weeks ago I paid $3.69 for gas when I fueled up for a trip. 9 hours later in Virginia I paid $3.05 then saw it for $2.99 just down the street.


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## D&B Mack (Jul 10, 2012)

blackdogon57 said:


> I don't care how you slice it. Nobody in their right mind will pay anywhere near $100 per hour to have a cord of wood split.



I would have to disagree here. Some of the yuppies around here will. They get a tree taken down by a tree service, they want wood for the outdoor fireplace/pit/chiminea, they will pay $100 for someone to come and split the wood. Usually stacking is involved as well, but there is not even a cord of wood there.

I did a splitting job for a lady about a month ago, it ended up costing her at least that much per cord. But her entire property was inaccessible for equipment. For the past two years, she had trees remove and the logs left in place. Had to hand carry each log to the driveway. But she got firewood out of it and the place was cleaned up.


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## jrider (Jul 10, 2012)

And then you have to deal with guys like this....I certainly hope he doesn't think or try to convince anyone he can split 1-2 cords an hour with the splitter he shows in his ad. 

MOBILE Log Splitting $40 in hour.

Just one more reason to bid the job and not give an hourly rate. Someone who doesn't know any better will wonder why there is such a difference between your amount and someone like this.


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## wndwlkr (Jul 10, 2012)

damato333 said:


> If some of you guys that gave advice think I 'm arrogant, sorry about that. But I'm stubborn. I think I should make more then some guy with a vertical splitter that will take a week to split the same amount of wood that I can split in a day. What does everyone think about $80 an hour?



Livin in a dream world, I think there was a song about that.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Jul 10, 2012)

jrider said:


> And then you have to deal with guys like this....I certainly hope he doesn't think or try to convince anyone he can split 1-2 cords an hour with the splitter he shows in his ad.
> 
> MOBILE Log Splitting $40 in hour.
> 
> Just one more reason to bid the job and not give an hourly rate. Someone who doesn't know any better will wonder why there is such a difference between your amount and someone like this.



I can split around a cord a hour with a spliter like that! I split right around 4 cord today in 5 hrs.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Jul 10, 2012)

I can buy a pretience load of logs (about 6 cords) of nice hard wood for about $300.


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## damato333 (Jul 10, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I can buy a pretience load of logs (about 6 cords) of nice hard wood for about $300.



Who do you get it from?


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## jrider (Jul 10, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I can split around a cord a hour with a spliter like that! I split right around 4 cord today in 5 hrs.



They would have to be the perfect size logs with little to no knots or y's. And 4 cords in 5 hours is an hour and 15 minutes per cord....no where near approaching 2 cords an hour. What size splits are you doing? That has a huge impact on how much you can split in an hour.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Jul 10, 2012)

damato333 said:


> Who do you get it from?



A local logging company.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Jul 10, 2012)

jrider said:


> They would have to be the perfect size logs with little to no knots or y's. And 4 cords in 5 hours is an hour and 15 minutes per cord....no where near approaching 2 cords an hour. What size splits are you doing? That has a huge impact on how much you can split in an hour.



Mostly all nice wood. I split pretty big pieces. I lost about 45 mins today fixxing the conveyer. Some of the drive chain links are getting weak, and broke.


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## zogger (Jul 10, 2012)

jrider said:


> They would have to be the perfect size logs with little to no knots or y's. And 4 cords in 5 hours is an hour and 15 minutes per cord....no where near approaching 2 cords an hour. What size splits are you doing? That has a huge impact on how much you can split in an hour.



That ad says a team, I guess meaning two guys.

I know with my boss's home made splitter I could do and have done a cord and change an hour, splitting and throwing into a pile. His was nice as the stroke was so long I could load up two 16" long pieces at a whack. Log lift with it as well, that speeds it up with those huge rounds.


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## lmbrman (Jul 12, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I can buy a pretience load of logs (about 6 cords) of nice hard wood for about $300.



about half what the mills here pay for hardwood pulp -

6" diameter straight 8' sticks bring $175/cord easy


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## jrider (Jan 20, 2013)

Any update on this thread? I am curious if the op has had any luck with this.


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## damato333 (Jan 20, 2013)

jrider said:


> Any update on this thread? I am curious if the op has had any luck with this.



I'm doing ok. I probably made a little over a thousand on wood splitting jobs. I'm definately not getting rich like some people thought I was trying to do at $80 an hour. The demand for mobile log splitting is not high enough where you can get rich.


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## jrider (Jan 20, 2013)

Glad to hear you are having some success


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## woodguy105 (Jan 20, 2013)

Your rate will need to satisfy the avg. homeowner with about 1-3 cords (storm damage, tree service wood). I've been splitting on the side for 3 years. MY twp1 is 8 years old have air filter, hydro filter changes and replaced carb. Of course oil, fuel and hydro oil /general maintenence. I'll likely replace the valve soon so Ill work a couple of jobs to cover the cost.

My repeat clients are joe homeowners who: don't want the hassle of renting/towing a splitter and have free wood on their property. I can load up in 20mins. to 1/2 hr. and break down in the same time frame.
Pull up find out how big/small they like their splits, point to where they want the pile and then crank it out.
No stacking no clean up. 

If the site is far I charge for gas/travel. I charge $30 hr. / $60 minimum. Probably could get more but works for me. I've done 2 hr jobs and I've done 5 plus hour jobs (see my avatar). Usually it's 3 hours. Every now and then I run a cheap 2 line ad for $10 i the local Shoppers Guide.



I've paid for my splitter 2 x already in the last 3 years (based on my 2005 purchase price). It's a fun sideline for me on my down time from real estate. Keeps some xtra greenbacks flowing. As a full time gig you would have to hustle your butt off & maybe add service like cutting.

Connecting with a tree service would be ideal, cut a deal with them and when they give quote to the homeowner they can offer the "value package deal including splitting" that way..you get work without advertising, the tree service cuts to uniform managable size rounds and its value added for the tree service and that means tree company gets call backs/ repeat business. Most homeowners have no clue how to deal with big wood left over from the tree company.

Do what ya gotta do. Work smart, safe and efficient. The old timers and the single ladies will keep calling back each year as long as you return calls, show up and do a good job. My 2 cents.



OOps didnt see this was an old thread. Looks like you're on the way to paying off the splitter...


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## MANORMAN (Jan 20, 2013)

*Making a buck*

Glad to see it's working out for you. Nice splitter for sure !
Ran the per hour thing here in Eastern long Island for a few years, saw less than beer money, so gathered the opinions of the pro's. 
Have no complaints now and work between 34 and 59 bucks per hour,,,,more if more labor. 
No complaints for the most part. Some quibbling ! 
Straight up, shoot from the hip, square deal 2010-2013 pricing and guaranteed results !


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## reaperman (Jan 21, 2013)

I wish you luck in your venture. One thing most people in any business will agree with, is you need "REPEAT" customers. Somehow you will have to find a way to market yourself back to your customers door. Wood haulers have the luxury of selling to the same folks year after year if they are consistently delivering a quality product. But the odds of the same folks needing tree service and splitting every year isn't that likely. But on the bright side, as you gain exposure and contacts, doors will open in other areas you hadn't expected. 

That is a nice splitter you have. Overall, splitters are pretty simple and durable.


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## Como (Jan 21, 2013)

I might do a bit as I like splitting and I have dead periods.

But at that rate, well no buyers.

If you amortise the cost of the splitter over 5 years you are looking at $50 a week.

For comparison, I had a couple of very heavy items to move, but the moving would not take very long. The Equipment guy come out with his semi and a brand new off road fork lift that picked them up like they were nothing. When he works like that he charges $125 an hour from leaving until returning.
View attachment 274598


I said I would do a neighbours, that is a freebie, but I will think if I was going to charge how much I would charge and then see what the costs were.

Wood here, well if you pay for it $10 a cord to the Forestery Service, about $30 a cord for log length if you buy it in semi loads.

Plenty of people advertising for people to come and get their blow downs.


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## WidowMaker (Jan 21, 2013)

That's a good looking splitter, but I sure don't see $6000 more then my "POS" 
35 ton Speeco that has split 40 to 50 cords a year for 10 years without the 
first hint of a problem...just sayin


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## Como (Jan 21, 2013)

WidowMaker said:


> That's a good looking splitter, but I sure don't see $6000 more then my "POS"
> 35 ton Speeco that has split 40 to 50 cords a year for 10 years without the
> first hint of a problem...just sayin



and the customer does not care which one is used.


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## woodguy105 (Jan 21, 2013)

Como said:


> and the customer does not care which one is used.



True as long as you split fast and efficiently.


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## bowtechmadman (Jan 21, 2013)

Congrats on making some coin. Now for my rant...no way in heck i'm paying someone 100 bucks an hour to split wood...with that being said i don't pay my licensed mechanic 100 bucks an hour to work on my vehicles. 
Won't get out of bed for 50 bucks an hour? Good grief if i thought I could make 50 bucks an hour splitting wood I sure as hell wouldn't drive 35 miles every day to make 35 bucks an hour maintaining 20 paint application ABB robots.
So what do you do full time that makes you enough cash to not get out of bed for 50 bucks an hour, and why in the world you trying to split wood if your making that kinda money.
Rant complete...good luck with your splitting endeavors looks like a very well built wood splitter.


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## autoimage (Jan 21, 2013)

i tell people starting small businesses to think about how may customers you actually need to make a profit. for my auto detailing business i need 3-4 customers per day 5 days a week 50 weeks a year. think of that in terms of people who want to pay to have wood split.


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## damato333 (Jan 21, 2013)

Como said:


> and the customer does not care which one is used.



They sure do care when I can split the same amount two to three times as fast and in the end even though charge more an hour I still will be cheaper cause a horizontal/vertical splitter will take longer and cost more.


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## damato333 (Jan 21, 2013)

WidowMaker said:


> That's a good looking splitter, but I sure don't see $6000 more then my "POS"
> 35 ton Speeco that has split 40 to 50 cords a year for 10 years without the
> first hint of a problem...just sayin



One difference between my splitter and yours is that I can do 40 or 50 cords in half the amount of time you can. I used to split on a horizontal/vertical splitter but I got sick of splitting for a full day and only getting a couple cords done. So your telling me there is no difference between your log splitter and a timberwolf. My log splitter is basically a timberwolf.


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## mesupra (Jan 21, 2013)

Great looking splitter however, your comment "Those first guys have a fly wheel splitter. First knot they hit they won't know what to do" clearly shows that you have never run one.

If you still have the receipt you may want to consider returning it, buying a new supersplitter for *$5,500* less and take a couple years off from the wood biz, buying a 6th grade math text book for *$6.25* for amazon, complete all sections, and then develop a business plan. 

All kidding aside you seem to have the right tools, you may want to think about buying a decent 1 ton dump (with the money you saved after returning the behemoth hydro splitter) and selling it cut split and delivered.


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## damato333 (Jan 21, 2013)

mesupra said:


> Great looking splitter however, your comment "Those first guys have a fly wheel splitter. First knot they hit they won't know what to do" clearly shows that you have never run one.
> 
> If you still have the receipt you may want to consider returning it, buying a new supersplitter for *$5,500* less and take a couple years off from the wood biz, buying a 6th grade math text book for *$6.25* for amazon, complete all sections, and then develop a business plan.
> 
> All kidding aside you seem to have the right tools, you may want to think about buying a decent 1 ton dump (with the money you saved after returning the behemoth hydro splitter) and selling it cut split and delivered.



I have one question. How do you get a 300 pound log on a supersplitter? With my splitter I barely break a sweat getting a massive log on my splitter. Maybe where you are you have wood that my grandmother could pick up but where I am if I don't have a log lift then my back wouldn't last a year with a supersplit I can't be wrong with buying this when so many people buy timberwolfs. I don't know maybe you need that math book cause if I bought a supersplitter instead of this one I would've only saved $2,5000. I don't know if you can find any decent truck for $2,500. By the way I do have a 1 ton dump truck and I do sell firewood.


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## mesupra (Jan 21, 2013)

You stated "I payed over $8,000 for the splitter"

Over 8,000 for your hydro
- 2,760 a new supersplit HD
_________
5,240 

I guess it depends how much over 8,000 you spent. I guess theres a pile of ways to get big wood onto a splitter, first, most firewood guys don't mess with the big stuff because its not worth it, second for 5,240 you could buy decent compact diesel tractor and grapple. 

I wish you the best of luck in all you do. I just don't see the market it on site splitting.


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## woodguy105 (Jan 21, 2013)

damato333 said:


> I have one question. How do you get a 300 pound log on a supersplitter? .



That's the main problem I could see if using an SS for splitting other peoples wood. You'll break your back getting some of those rounds on the the deck. And you dont want to be farting around with noodling or hand splitting if you're getting paid by the hour or by the job.


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## damato333 (Jan 21, 2013)

mesupra said:


> You stated "I payed over $8,000 for the splitter"
> 
> Over 8,000 for your hydro
> - 2,760 a new supersplit HD
> ...



I miss read your original post. I thought a super splitter was $5,500. But even at $2,000 I think I would rather have a horizontal/vertical splitter with a 10 second cycle time.


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## Tazfreak (Jan 22, 2013)

damato333 said:


> I miss read your original post. I thought a super splitter was $5,500. But even at $2,000 I think I would rather have a horizontal/vertical splitter with a 10 second cycle time.



We have a hydro splitter with loglift, 6 second cycle time mounted on front of 2.5 cubic metre cap trailer.and charge $40 per hour for falling, cutting timber down to workable size to be split to customer requirements,splitting charged at $65 per hour, capacity about 4 m3 per hour.If carting back to landowner,s landing $28 per hour,no stacking ,just dump.Whole service works out about half what it costs to buy the same quantity of delivered,split firewood by using the landowner,s timber.We find it a profitable sideline to our selling dry,split hardwood .Our clients are rural people with acres who want to burn their own timbers:msp_thumbup:.Nice splitter u have there,put it to work and if u do cutting as well as splitting at reasonable rates u should get work :chainsawguy:opcorn:


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## WidowMaker (Jan 22, 2013)

damato333 said:


> One difference between my splitter and yours is that I can do 40 or 50 cords in half the amount of time you can. I used to split on a horizontal/vertical splitter but I got sick of splitting for a full day and only getting a couple cords done. So your telling me there is no difference between your log splitter and a timberwolf. My log splitter is basically a timberwolf.




=====

Yep, basicly there is very little differance between a TW and "MY" POS 35 to Speeco....

The TW may have a little faster cycle time, a, hydraulic 4 or 6 way wedge

I am in the process of building a 4 way wedge for my POS.


I don't have to chase splits from one of the splitter to another to re-splitt any that might need it.
With the wedge ram mounted and a work table I can do it all from one position and as long as I have someone feeding the lift I almost never have to leave the controls...

Canyou do that??

The lift and work/catch table can be switched fron side to side as desired in about 2 minutes by one person and no tools...


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## damato333 (Jan 22, 2013)

WidowMaker said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> =====
> 
> ...



Maybe yours is better than the tw-p1 but there is no way yours would come close to a tw-5 and that is exactly what my splitter is modeled after. I don't get your point? Do you really think yours is better than a tw-5? I can do all the things your splitter can do but I can do it faster.


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## Como (Jan 23, 2013)

damato333 said:


> Maybe yours is better than the tw-p1 but there is no way yours would come close to a tw-5 and that is exactly what my splitter is modeled after. I don't get your point? Do you really think yours is better than a tw-5? I can do all the things your splitter can do but I can do it faster.



I can see that a TW 5 would be quicker with wood that could take full advantage of the 6 way splitter, I have used a Hydraulic with a 4 way, I am quicker than that with mine, spent too much time clearing split wood out of the way. Now if it had a conveyor that would even it up.


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## damato333 (Jan 23, 2013)

Como said:


> I can see that a TW 5 would be quicker with wood that could take full advantage of the 6 way splitter, I have used a Hydraulic with a 4 way, I am quicker than that with mine, spent too much time clearing split wood out of the way. Now if it had a conveyor that would even it up.



I have a conveyor.


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## Como (Jan 23, 2013)

damato333 said:


> I have a conveyor.



I bought some plans of E Bay for one, I have a spare engine.

Quite when I will get around to is another issue.

That leaves the main slow down factor, picking up wood, a second person and a conveyor I think I could triple my production.


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## johncinco (Jan 29, 2013)

damato333 said:


> They sure do care when I can split the same amount two to three times as fast and in the end even though charge more an hour I still will be cheaper cause a horizontal/vertical splitter will take longer and cost more.



No they don't. 

 


People who understand cords per hour/cost per cord/cost of cutting, splitting, stacking, all do their own wood because they have taken the time to figure it out and know what they have involved into it. Other people, they are going to see you want 100 or $80 an hour, and I show up and say I am $30 an hour to do the same job. Even when I say it is $30 a MAN HOUR, meaning I plan on bringing another person and finishing in half the time, I am still at $60 an hour. THATS what people understand. 

Think I am wrong? Look at the toyota prius or any car like that. People see 60 miles to the gallon and buy them. After 4 years when they have to drop $5,000 into replacing the batteries, it might dawn on them it wasn't such a great deal after all. Too late then. 

This thread is like watching Special Olympics.


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## tomtrees58 (Jan 29, 2013)

i do over a cord and hour


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## Como (Jan 30, 2013)

I looked at the TW5, 6 second cycle, 6 way wedge, I would have thought 3 or 4 cords an hour easy, what am I missing?


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## tomtrees58 (Jan 30, 2013)

Como said:


> I looked at the TW5, 6 second cycle, 6 way wedge, I would have thought 3 or 4 cords an hour easy, what am I missing?



your splitting little wood most of my logs are 4' dba or bigger






my logs


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## kmcinms (Jan 30, 2013)

tomtrees58 said:


> your splitting little wood most of my logs are 4' dba or bigger
> 
> 
> 
> my logs



That's a purty log.
damato, hope you get to split a lot of wood and make a lot of folks happy. I split by the cord and sell by the cord. Mild winters, storm trees, and lots of competition here, keep me from making anything worth talking about.
My splitter is 18 years old and still going strong. Nuttin' fancy, but makes a lot of folks happy :msp_thumbup:


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## johncinco (Jan 30, 2013)

Como said:


> I looked at the TW5, 6 second cycle, 6 way wedge, I would have thought 3 or 4 cords an hour easy, what am I missing?



How fast a human being can work. Its money well spent when the slowest part of your operation is you.


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## scotte303 (Feb 1, 2013)

*Cost of wood in north jersey*

Read this on CL. In one of the most expensive areas in the country.

UNSEASONED FIREWOOD


WE ARE SELLING SPLIT OAK FIREWOOD THAT IS ABOUT 5 MONTHS OLD . THE ENDS ARE ALREADY SPLITTING AND GETTING COLOR. WE KEEP THE WOOD STACKED SO IT WILL DRY FASTER. MANY OF OUR CUSTOMERS ARE MIXING THIS WITH THIER SEASONED WOOD.

$ 75 HALF CORD

$ 145 FULL CORD

$ 125 PER CORD IF YOU BUY 2 CORDS OR MORE

CALL OR TEXT

201-206-5991

FREE LOCAL DELIVERY

Geez, if I didn't
love splitting wood so much, I would prolly call these guys.


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## tld400 (Feb 2, 2013)

scotte303 said:


> Read this on CL. In one of the most expensive areas in the country.
> 
> UNSEASONED FIREWOOD
> 
> ...



Im from south jersey and have seen wood for sale on CL for 90 dollars a cord of oak but mos guys in my town get 160 to 200 a cord. When its cheap it is tempting.


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## kmcinms (Feb 2, 2013)

*Is it a full cord*

I'd like to go to their wood yard,measure out a full cord, then hand him $90 and see what he says.


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## Matt Bourdon (Jul 7, 2016)

damato333 said:


> I just bought this log splitter in December and I'm trying to get into splitting other peoples wood for them. I figure for a tree company or a land clearing company it would be worth it cause they will be paid 2 or 3 times for the same wood. Also homeowners that had trees cut down or fall down and want firewood. I can do a cord in a little over an hour. If it's straight and no knots than an hour. I calculated it out and figured out that $100 an hour would cover my expenses. That includes my truck, log splitter, 2 people do the work, gas, and any clean up that is needed. I had one guy call me and he said he needed 60 cords split and he told me it was already cut into firewood length. I told him it would be $750 a day for an 8 hour day. I gave him a little break because of the volume of work. I thought that price was reasonable for everything that I am putting out. He told me he already got a qoute from a guy with a processor for $500 a day. I just don't believe that. That seems really low. If anyone can give me some input on this. Let me know if my quote is high, low, or right on. I also would like some input on how to go about getting people to pay me to split their wood.





damato333 said:


> I just bought this log splitter in December and I'm trying to get into splitting other peoples wood for them. I figure for a tree company or a land clearing company it would be worth it cause they will be paid 2 or 3 times for the same wood. Also homeowners that had trees cut down or fall down and want firewood. I can do a cord in a little over an hour. If it's straight and no knots than an hour. I calculated it out and figured out that $100 an hour would cover my expenses. That includes my truck, log splitter, 2 people do the work, gas, and any clean up that is needed. I had one guy call me and he said he needed 60 cords split and he told me it was already cut into firewood length. I told him it would be $750 a day for an 8 hour day. I gave him a little break because of the volume of work. I thought that price was reasonable for everything that I am putting out. He told me he already got a qoute from a guy with a processor for $500 a day. I just don't believe that. That seems really low. If anyone can give me some input on this. Let me know if my quote is high, low, or right on. I also would like some input on how to go about getting people to pay me to split their wood.



Business is political. Some businesses will do jobs at cost just to get their work in before you, because word of mouth is number one marketing. Even if they lost a few bucks, it would be profitable long term. Business is pretty much a political war, and you gotta get dirty and take hits for the team. $500 would cover the cost of 2 employee's making $12/hr, working a 60 hour week (a $1680 labor fee to them)/ (That's including over time). Meaning they will make double their costs with over time included. Being as you'd be making $3500 for say...75 hours/ 150 man-hours is still $50 coming in, and only $24 going out per hour...or 108% profit. I think $750/day is a little high myself. And if I was just about to spend $3500, I'd be shopping around and doing the math.


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 8, 2016)

this is a back saver


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 8, 2016)




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## shamusturbo (Jul 8, 2016)

That was one of the toughest threads to read through. However, a TON of good points made by a hundreds of years of experience. I know the thread is almost 4 years old but is your splitter paid for itself yet?

I charge $100 hour for a $55k processor and 2 guys for mobile processing. Keep in mind I am burning 3-5 gallons of fuel an hour with almost 100 gallons of hydraulic fluid and a $4k spinning buzz saw. I have had limited success in a very distinct, profitable market. D+B Mack mentioned about the yuppies of Western PA. He is absolutely correct. I live between a very affluent part of the area (we have a ton of medical and technology companies in Pittsburgh) and a very, very old farming community. I have had very different levels of success doing a lot of the things referenced here. (processing for hire, splitting for hire, light landclearing etc.) 

I've had a TW-5 for 5 or so years and have changed the oil maybe 10 times in it and the hydraulic fluid once. That's it. And it was our main piece of splitting equipment for 2 years at 120-140 full cords a year. And really, how much is an engine replacement? 

As for the flywheel splitter, we kick ourselves for waiting so long to get one. If we had to downsize and keep one of the 6 splitters we have, that would be the one. As mentioned, leave the big pieces behind. They aren't worth the hassle. Or get an inverted skidsteer splitter and never leave the seat. 

It took 3 pages of discussion to make it to the fireworks BUT, ALWAYS GIVE A TOTAL, HARD PRICE! People aren't smart enough to do the math that if I have 10 cords (or so I think) then $100 an hour for 2 cords works out to $50 a cord, split and piled. THEY DON"T THINK IT THROUGH LIKE THAT. 

Instead this is the thought process: "I want this pile turned into firewood and I have $653 in my bank account. I can swing $400...." There is no production, cord an hour thought process. I promise. I have seen it 1000 times. 

This is the foundaition to an old barn. The pile is 3 tri-axles (6 cords per) and another 4-5 cords gathered by the landowner. This was 6 machine hours, 2 mobe and demobe. 20-24" length and bigger splits. Processor in the background. The landowner loaded the processor himself and struggled to keep up with an older JD 8875.


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2016)

shamusturbo said:


> That was one of the toughest threads to read through. However, a TON of good points made by a hundreds of years of experience. I know the thread is almost 4 years old but is your splitter paid for itself yet?
> 
> I charge $100 hour for a $55k processor and 2 guys for mobile processing. Keep in mind I am burning 3-5 gallons of fuel an hour with almost 100 gallons of hydraulic fluid and a $4k spinning buzz saw. I have had limited success in a very distinct, profitable market. D+B Mack mentioned about the yuppies of Western PA. He is absolutely correct. I live between a very affluent part of the area (we have a ton of medical and technology companies in Pittsburgh) and a very, very old farming community. I have had very different levels of success doing a lot of the things referenced here. (processing for hire, splitting for hire, light landclearing etc.)
> 
> ...


Is that a woodbine processor?


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## shamusturbo (Jul 8, 2016)

damato333 said:


> Is that a woodbine processor?


It is. It's a 2013 rapid Loco 20. It has about 400 hours on it. We bought it outside Jacksonville Florida last New Years Eve. We had the green monster splitter from the same company before that. I wish we could have afforded to keep it too. It lives in Clyde Ohio. I still keep in contact with the owner.


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## damato333 (Jul 8, 2016)

shamusturbo said:


> It is. It's a 2013 rapid Loco 20. It has about 400 hours on it. We bought it outside Jacksonville Florida last New Years Eve. We had the green monster splitter from the same company before that. I wish we could have afforded to keep it too. It lives in Clyde Ohio. I still keep in contact with the owner.


From the videos I've watched they make a quality processor.


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## ponyexpress976 (Jul 9, 2016)

tomtrees58 said:


> this is a back saver



Tomtrees, how much can you pick up with that grapple? I have the bucket style on my mini and was wondering if there was any appreciable difference in the two styles. I use mine for logs and boulders.


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## no tree to big (Jul 9, 2016)

ponyexpress976 said:


> Tomtrees, how much can you pick up with that grapple? I have the bucket style on my mini and was wondering if there was any appreciable difference in the two styles. I use mine for logs and boulders.


It's not just the weight capacity, u can drag brush and pick up long logs and take them through a narrow opening vs cutting shorter to go sideways. 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## Hddnis (Jul 10, 2016)

I can't remember the exact formula, but basically an $8,000 machine doesn't command $80 an hour. There are guys running machines that cost $50,000 and getting $85.00 an hour and making good money, that is in fact a mini excavator and maintenance is far higher for one of those than a splitter. A dump truck that costs a quarter million will only bring in $110-$130 an hour.

Best way to price is by the cord split. You'll win big on some jobs and not do so well on others, but being able to give a firm price up front will win enough work to make you money.


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