# My advertising video



## treebogan (Sep 12, 2009)

Here it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2yYsoDFB4


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## tree MDS (Sep 12, 2009)

Not bad... that soundtrack almost gave me an anxiety attack, other than that 

Those suspenders connected to your saddle?? I didnt notice, but if so do you find they help keep your belt up pretty good??


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## Ekka (Sep 12, 2009)

Well, I might make a video called how to cut that tree down in half the time you took and twice as safe.


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## ozzy42 (Sep 13, 2009)

Looks like most of it could've been bombed,but great video to show potential customers.


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## tree MDS (Sep 13, 2009)

Ekka said:


> Well, I might make a video called how to cut that tree down in half the time you took and twice as safe.



I was trying to be kind sinse he went to the trouble of putting up a vid for us ekka, sort of a rare moment for me.


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## treemandan (Sep 13, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I was trying to be kind sinse he went to the trouble of putting up a vid for us ekka, sort of a rare moment for me.



Yeah, you had me confused again. And Ekka, that is not like you.

Anyway, timber hitching a web strap is not a good way to go. Also if you are going to cut limbs off with one hand and hold them with the other you should be below the limb as it gives more room and more time to swing the saw and branch away from each other.
Sure I would have just stripped the thing up from the bottom instead of going to the top first then coming back down and then going back up.
And what a freakin mess you made on the ground. Are you supposed to get that stuff out of there?
Thanks for posting Dok, take care.


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 13, 2009)

treemandan said:


> And what a freakin mess you made on the ground. Are you supposed to get that stuff out of there?
> Thanks for posting Dok, take care.



That would be my only concern about using this vid for potential customers. Make sure you get a few "All cleaned up" shots to show as well lest the HO thinks they'll have a huge mess to deal with. Nice vid though.


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## treemandan (Sep 13, 2009)

and don't be tying no chainsaw to yer butt with no tree climbing rope


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## treebogan (Sep 13, 2009)

treemandan said:


> and don't be tying no chainsaw to yer butt with no tree climbing rope



Why not?

The ring on an 020 breaks away.


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## treemandan (Sep 13, 2009)

treebogan said:


> Why not?
> 
> The ring on an 020 breaks away.



Good point but are you sure bout that?


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## Ekka (Sep 13, 2009)

treemandan said:


> And Ekka, that is not like you.



Well, I was going to get into all the BS in that video then figured that if I wrote a controversial challenging post others would break out of their "we're too gutless to say the truth" habit and tell the poster what was wrong and why.

It also makes viewers look at it more critically to see what the errors and inefficiencies are.

And I see now people are starting to see the light.

:yourock:


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## treemandan (Sep 13, 2009)

Ekka said:


> Well, I was going to get into all the BS in that video then figured that if I wrote a controversial challenging post others would break out of their "we're too gutless to say the truth" habit and tell the poster what was wrong and why.
> 
> It also makes viewers look at it more critically to see what the errors and inefficiencies are.
> 
> ...



well nothing is stopping you now so start flapping dem gums.


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## Ekka (Sep 13, 2009)

Around 1.08 only one attachment point whilst cutting and one handing. Why on earth when you can drop the limbs anyway and do so .... do you bother one handing?

At 1.21 cutting well above shoulder height and one handing it up there.

Also clip that saw up high so you dont have to pull it up as far like you did at 1.19 and also looks silly at 1.42 it hanging there (running).... but I know you can do it because you did it at 2.20 

At 2.35 you didn't wrap your thumb under the handle.

At 2.50 we can see the scarf angle is too shallow for taking the top out, what ya got there maybe 30 degrees at best.

Dont line the lowering block and the Port-a-wrap up on the trunk, helps avoid the load crushing the lowering line into the trunk and also lowering onto your porty, seen in small window on lower RH side at 4.03 and again at 4.10 when piece is lowered and does hit the lowering line.

Now, faster would have been to limb it on way up, fell the head out and block it down forgetting about the lower rope coz you bombed enough crap out the back of the tree anyway including the spar that was felled.


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## treemandan (Sep 13, 2009)

Ekka said:


> Around 1.08 only one attachment point whilst cutting and one handing. Why on earth when you can drop the limbs anyway and do so .... do you bother one handing?
> 
> At 1.21 cutting well above shoulder height and one handing it up there.
> 
> ...



I ask and I get, thanks. Though I do say you are being a wee bit over critical but its not a bad thing.

I mentioned the one handing which I do especially on conifers. My method IS to cut above my head, grab the limb and toss it. This way there is room and time for error. I only do this on limbs that are not to big and I know I can handle. Holding limbs like Treeboggan did might pull you over into the saw, my way the saw goes one way while the limb ( and your hand) goes another while ready to ditch the saw if need be.
Of course the only time a saw should be running is if you are cutting. Having a running saw clipped to your side is really bad.


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## treebogan (Sep 14, 2009)

There are alot of things in that Video that come from the comfort of practice.

Much like using one hand on the Steering wheel of a car or exceeding the speed limit in conditions that allow it.It all comes down the the freedom of choice that us who live in a democracy enjoy.


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## SteveBullman (Sep 14, 2009)

nice video mike....as the title says, its a promotional video, hence the use of some techniques that you probably wouldnt have used on that particular tree otherwise.......that obviously went over most peoples heads. You got what you set out for, probably one of the best shot and edited tree videos ive seen to date, well done


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## Ekka (Sep 15, 2009)

treebogan said:


> It all comes down the the freedom of choice that us who live in a democracy enjoy.



Must be an unusual democracy you live in then, all freedoms have boundaries even in Norway.

http://www.arbeidstilsynet.no/c26840/artikkel/vis.html?tid=29289#2


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## Tree Pig (Sep 15, 2009)

Someone owes me 5 mins of my life back.


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## treemandan (Sep 15, 2009)

treebogan said:


> There are alot of things in that Video that come from the comfort of practice.
> 
> Much like using one hand on the Steering wheel of a car or exceeding the speed limit in conditions that allow it.It all comes down the the freedom of choice that us who live in a democracy enjoy.



Well now you are sounding like a complete lunatic with the way you drive. Seriously? Democracy? Treework? A democracy? Really? No way.


Yes I see you do look kinda comfy but we ain't your customers so we are going to say something about funny stuff. Like this ain't no democracy and how the heck you got that strap to stay there is pretty cool. How did you get that strap to stay there?


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## vaironds (Sep 16, 2009)

Great job, very nice video.:greenchainsaw:


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## treemandan (Sep 16, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Great video for potential clients!



You also have me confused. Really I had nightmares. Who cuts on the fly like that? Looking like batman witha


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## tree MDS (Sep 16, 2009)

treemandan said:


> You also have me confused. Really I had nightmares. Who cuts on the fly like that? Looking like batman witha



maybe it wasnt so bad and it was just the soundtrack that gave you nightmares dan.


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 16, 2009)

treemandan said:


> You also have me confused. Really I had nightmares. Who cuts on the fly like that? Looking like batman witha



Seriously, Dan. I thought you were cool. When did you become the safety police? Did BCMA get to you? Must you be reminded of this?



treemandan said:


> There is the bag, I was little tipsy but they said she had been up there all night and was calling for the kids... so I went
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## treemandan (Sep 16, 2009)

I gave Boggan some rep, maybe he will come back? Anyway maybe that is what a troll is ; Me? I dunno.

But if he watches those videos Treeslayer has in his own personal thread you can see how you appraoch a tree like he was in. Not really topping them out so much as limbing them up. 
Its also gear intensive, sometimes you make do with things like the strap but I think you are on real smart cutting them side kerfs with yer saw , yessir. I usually do it my self in that situation with that kind of tree.


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## treemandan (Sep 16, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Seriously, Dan. I thought you were cool. When did you become the safety police? Did BCMA get to you? Must you be reminded of this?



Ok, how much do you want to make this go away? 


Ahhh, but that is not me, certainly not you. Who do you think that is? 


By the way yesterday it was a dam kitten, sorry no pics, been up there for days. Same bat- bag though, cept it was a cat bag.


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 16, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Ahhh, but that is not me, certainly not you. Who do you think that is?



Sometimes...when I'm really confused, like I currently am after reading the above statement, I watch this video, because there is nothing more mind boggling in the world then something like this. You down with H & O?

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=29995109


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## Plasmech (Sep 16, 2009)

Man...the replies to this video would indicate that even if I ever do become a good tree man I'll still get flamed on this forum. Dang.




treebogan said:


> Here it is...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2yYsoDFB4


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## treemandan (Sep 16, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Hahahaha!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I have some balls , I guess Sunday morning climbs with a couple beers ain't exactly what you would call pretty.Oh, it was just some thing I threw on. 
Now if you want to get back into whether or not the guy in the pictures is able to do what you see him doing while others may be discouraged go ahead. Its not like I just threw that on.


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## treemandan (Sep 16, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> maybe it wasnt so bad and it was just the soundtrack that gave you nightmares dan.



No, it made me flinch to see that swing cutting I think it was. It came off as a vulgar display for no just reason. 

other than most likely free climbing the thing to the top to set a rope to come back down It looked pretty solid, its even a situation where free climbing isn't ridiculous. Not sure about the block being used.

I want to know who was behind the Bogan up there, It looked like level shots towards his back.


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## Ekka (Sep 17, 2009)

At 0.35 we have an unwrapped thumb on a saw that just completed a cut above shoulder height (in front of your face) with a pushing chain (that means cutting with the top of the bar) up close to a trunk.

These are the things I have to look for and assess.


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## Knuckles (Sep 17, 2009)

blakesmaster said:


> sometimes...when i'm really confused, like i currently am after reading the above statement, i watch this video, because there is nothing more mind boggling in the world then something like this. You down with h & o?
> 
> http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=29995109



what the fuuck is that???.

A little warning please before you lay that $hit on a public forum!


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## ckliff (Sep 17, 2009)

Have you considered a career in the movies? haha just kidding. for the most part.

The music has got to go. Too unnerving.

Why not consider this a learning experience....


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## Plasmech (Sep 17, 2009)

Even as a greenhorn I saw stuff in the video that I ah...like wouldn't do maybe. But kudos to the OP for sharing the video. I hope he sticks around.


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 17, 2009)

Knuckles said:


> what the fuuck is that???.
> 
> A little warning please before you lay that $hit on a public forum!



I said it was the most mind boggling thing in the world. Isn't that warning enough?


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## Knuckles (Sep 18, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I said it was the most mind boggling thing in the world. Isn't that warning enough?




HAHAHA I didn't read the post. I saw a link to a video and clicked on it. I won't do that again, that's for sure.


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## Ekka (Sep 18, 2009)

Well, I know I have been pretty tough on this guy.

I know if you went through my videos you'd find things wrong too no doubt.

When you are making a video try to keep all those little things in check, they can be annoying because a great scene is wrecked by some little BS.

The real technical one here on this video that I'd suggest we all keep in our minds is that lining up of the lowering device and the top pulley when you have a straight trunk like that (like a palm) ... be aware of the section smashing into the trunk and crushing the lowering line.

With sound tracks it's getting tougher as Youtube now vets your soundtrack and either pulls your video or deletes the sound and you get a nasty message about copyright infringement. I loaded up the motorized ascender video to Youtube and it didn't even get a chance, straight off the bat Youtube deleted the sound track ... so I went to Metacafe to host it.

Seems your music is going to have to be paid for like these royalty free tracks.


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## Plasmech (Sep 18, 2009)

One thing to remember about the soundtrack is that this dude is European...music styles are a um..wee bit different there. I was in Austria and Germany a couple years ago....it's like they're stuck in 1984


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## treemandan (Sep 18, 2009)

I dug the music.


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## Plasmech (Sep 18, 2009)

Yo TMD. You should have seen the trees I was felling after work today. You would have shat yourself. We still on for tomorrow at 10?




treemandan said:


> I dug the music.


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## treemandan (Sep 18, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Yo TMD. You should have seen the trees I was felling after work today. You would have shat yourself. We still on for tomorrow at 10?



Yes I would have like to get a load of that. Hope you got pics cause I still might. Yeah I should be there by ten. Give a shout when you are getting close, I'll let the dogs out.


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## limbwalker54 (Sep 19, 2009)

Yo Dan,

I live in Aston. Maybe one of these days we could meet up at the local watering hole to grab a cold one and talk tree guy stuff. 

-Mike


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## capetrees (Sep 19, 2009)

Knuckles said:


> what the fuuck is that???.
> 
> A little warning please before you lay that $hit on a public forum!



Have to agree.


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## outofmytree (Sep 19, 2009)

That was an interesting video.

It was well edited for advertising, the climber had obvious PPE and the job appeared to go smoothly. All good for home owners who do not understand tree work. Sadly the video is not good enough to promote your business with so many obvious OHS breaches. In the first minute you made more than 8 cuts which, had the saw kicked out, would have split you down the sternum. Cutting the limbs from the right side of a tree, with your body on the same side means the saw has to hit either your torso, your left arm or your lanyard. You looked very smooth and comfortable when climbing so I assume you have been at this for a while. If you are making something for show, slow down and cover all the bases.

Why not take some time to absorb the comments here and make another one. Imagine how much more business you can generate with a video as well edited as the first but with all the OHS boxes ticked?!


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## capetrees (Sep 19, 2009)

Safety this and safety that. :deadhorse:

He guy went up the tree, the tree came down as planned, all's well. Nobody's perfect and this guy seems to know what he's doing just fine. All this talk about right side cuts, thumbs on top, hanging saws on this side or that, get real. Every move up in the tree is dangerous just by the mere fact that we're in the tree. Could happen if this or that but hey, it didn't. 

Good video and good luck with your biz.


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## outofmytree (Sep 19, 2009)

capetrees said:


> Safety this and safety that. :deadhorse:
> 
> He guy went up the tree, the tree came down as planned, all's well. Nobody's perfect and this guy seems to know what he's doing just fine. All this talk about right side cuts, thumbs on top, hanging saws on this side or that, get real. Every move up in the tree is dangerous just by the mere fact that we're in the tree. Could happen if this or that but hey, it didn't.
> 
> Good video and good luck with your biz.



You seem to have missed the point Cape. The OP asked for opinions and he got them. If you will pardon the pun, I have no axe to grind with this man. I would like him to be succesful in advertising his business but it is fact that the video contained faults which need correcting prior to public release. This process of revision is done every hour of every day in major studios around the world for commercial advertising at great cost. It is happening here for free!


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## ckliff (Sep 20, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> This process of revision is done every hour of every day in major studios around the world for commercial advertising at great cost. *It is happening here for free!*



Repped


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## Ekka (Sep 25, 2009)

Lets have a look at your videos then OOMT! Hmmm, 800 posts here and another what few hundred elsewhere and all ya got is lip service. 

So many arm chair experts, so many talk the talk but aint showing no walk (cluck cluck ya chickens ).

Treebogan, have a look at this video and watch what happens when you don't line up the lowering device and block. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1735743


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## JohN Dee (Sep 25, 2009)

I thought it was a great advertising video! Yeah a few unnecessary risks, but like myself, noone is perfect.

You have received some good tips and advice here treebogan, just try to follow some of them in your next vid and you will make people here happy. 

Nice smooth climbing... I must say though, why did you cut out your side fibres with your handsaw rather then your chainsaw? Oh and with you scarfs (notches[face cuts]) it looked as if you didn't join the top cut with the back cut where the back cut was deeper? If so, ya gotta try and avoid that especially when pushing blokes over without a higher pulling force. In alot of cases, that holding wood (that protects you) relies on momentum to snap(break) it, you can't get that momentum up if you haven't cut it out properly, now you might say you cut through the hinge? Then I say what's the point of that whole cut then?

Once again nice advertising video as the title states. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it in HD.

P.S OOMT, who are you to critique and scrutinize? You bought a franchise and got 2 weeks training. Pffft, what a joke you are! OHS breaches OHS breaches! Tell me now smart ass what Division and clause would these breaches come under in the OHS Act? 

Put up or shut up.


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## Ekka (Sep 25, 2009)

Ah John, he'll have to confer with his international colleagues coz his local ones are onto him! :monkey:


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## outofmytree (Sep 26, 2009)

JohN Dee said:


> OHS breaches OHS breaches! Tell me now smart ass what Division and clause would these breaches come under in the OHS Act?
> 
> Put up or shut up.



Oh John. You need to read a little more carefully.



> In the first minute you made more than 8 cuts which, had the saw kicked out, would have split you down the sternum. Cutting the limbs from the right side of a tree, with your body on the same side means the saw has to hit either your torso, your left arm or your lanyard.



Were you asleep in your RTC2304A course where you were instructed to follow manufacturers guidelines in the use of any chainsaw? Did you forget to read the manual where it says do not place any part of your body in the "kickback" line of a saw? In case you have lost this document, (which you must keep as long as you use the saw btw), it is on page 19, section 12 .

Honestly you and Ekka need to work better on your put downs. Even tag teaming you haven't got it. 

It is funny how you arrive piggyback in this forum. Do you have a "special bond" boys? Or are you just good friends?


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## JohN Dee (Sep 27, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Oh John. You need to read a little more carefully.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hahaha. *You are a joke mate*. I didn't do that unit as a stand alone course, it was apart of a much larger more comprehensive course that you couldn't even begin to fathom the training I went through to attain my qualifications. Again smart ass, if you are cutting with two hands on the saw you are still very much most of the time in the area of where kickback can occur. You can't eliminate a kickback hazard on a production basis, the best control for it is to be educated on the subject and understand how it works to prevent it from happing, as well as knowing the correct stances to use the chain brake when it happens.

You need to read better spastic, I said the OHS Act not the chainsaw manual. POINT ME OUT THE SECTION WHERE IT SAYS IT IS AN OHS BREACH! 

BTW, page 19 of my 200T's manual is about chain lubrication, but! I did find this interesting piece of info that you so obviously aren't conforming too HAHA

Read the pieces I underlined and circled.





*Operators must be specifically trained for tree surgery work with tree surgery chainsaw*

Haha, you gotta stop using it now wanker, and doing you're basic chainsaw tickets isn't specifically trained for tree surgery work.

Thanks for clueing me and the rest of the world in on that one buddy  Mr you have to follow the chainsaw manual to use a chainsaw.


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## outofmytree (Sep 27, 2009)

> if you are cutting with two hands on the saw you are still very much most of the time in the area of where kickback can occur.





> Were you asleep in your RTC2304A course?



This unit is a compulsory part of CertIII in Australia. If you seriously do not know how to use ANY chainsaw without keeping your body out of the kickback line you should hand back your cert and start over.



> You can't eliminate a kickback hazard on a production basis, the best control for it is to be educated on the subject and understand how it works to prevent it from happing



This oxymoron is a demonstration of your chainsaw knowledge? Pfft. 

Once again


> Were you asleep in your RTC2304A course?



As to why the actions in the OP video were OHS breaches I thought I had made it clear enough but perhaps you don't understand so I will rephrase just for you. The OP is from Norway. OHS may vary from country to country but the simplest rules such as, when operating equipment read and follow the owners manual, are international. Quoting chapter and verse from Australian Acts, legislations and Codes of Practise would not help this person.



> You need to read better spastic


 You may get away with character assasination in the forum you sponsor but even you should know better than to throw this sort of derogatory term around. You owe the 50,000 cerebral palsy suffers in Australia a sincere apology.


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## JohN Dee (Sep 28, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> This unit is a compulsory part of CertIII in Australia. If you seriously do not know how to use ANY chainsaw without keeping your body out of the kickback line you should hand back your cert and start over.



You are a dumb ass. RTC*2*304A. See the bolded number 2? That means it is a level 2 (Certificate II) unit. Oh and by the way, the 4 compulsary units from lvl 2 are *not* to do with chainsaws directly, but about OHS. Even in lvl 3 there is only 1 compulsory unit and that is about OHS again. The RTC2304A Operate and maintain chainsaws unit is not compulsory at all. I could have gotten my cert II and III without even having completed that unit, but it is packaged in with TAFE certs. Read the PDF's I have attached, educate yourself some dumb ass.

*If you are not trained under the AQF system I suggest you hand back your franchise and start over*.





Look at the third diagram. Look familiar? Like when you had to limb that tree up that you just felled and hold the saw on unparalleled angles? Oh wait, that is right! Can't put yourself in the line of kick back! We must go get the pole saw to limb it up! Safety and bull#### first!










Shock shock it is in writing: *How to reduce kickback!* Wait, that book can't be educating people based on fact now can it?



> *If you seriously do not know how to use ANY chainsaw without keeping your body out of the kickback line*



I know how to use ANY chainsaw and keep my body out of the kickback line just like you probably do. Difference between me and you though and that statement is, I get the job done and done fast to make the big bucks. I do not sit there pondering at my saw as to how to do the next cut without putting myself in the kickback line.



> This oxymoron is a demonstration of your chainsaw knowledge? Pfft.



I have not contradicted myself at all and that snippet is exactly what I just called it a snippet of my chainsaw knowledge. There is a few more snippets above in visual form so you can learn some more, dumb ass.



> As to why the actions in the OP video were OHS breaches I thought I had made it clear enough but perhaps you don't understand so I will rephrase just for you. The OP is from Norway. OHS may vary from country to country but the simplest rules such as, when operating equipment read and follow the owners manual, are international. Quoting chapter and verse from Australian Acts, legislations and Codes of Practise would not help this person.



I have made it clear, I wanted you to point out in the OHS Act yes _our act_ where it is an OHS breach - I want to see this division and clause which makes *you* scream so loudly OHS breach OHS breach! 

You didn't make it clear at all dumb ass, I asked you a question and you answered with another question, to which I gave you the courtesy (by even going out of my way) and answered it, to which you haven't given me the courtesy and answered mine back.



> You may get away with character assasination in the forum you sponsor but even you should know better than to throw this sort of derogatory term around. You owe the 50,000 cerebral palsy suffers in Australia a sincere apology.



and for this I do apologize. I also apologize for bringing down the intellectual capacity of these poor suffering people to your stupid dumb ass level OutOfMyTree. 

On my regular forum, we do not character assassinate, we go after the facts. Facts don't lie. I'll admit, I am unsure if you are a wanker, or dumb ass in real life, but over the internet this is how you are coming across to me and others. It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Oh look, 5 attachments (going out of my way) so far, and I'm not even a regular of this forum, YET I contribute to it. Put up or shut up, dumb ass.


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## Ekka (Sep 28, 2009)

John, I commend your energy to engage this guy in any meaningful conversation.

It sickness me to come from an educated view point to be put on the back foot from a person who's perspective comes from ignorance.

He's only here because no-one else will have him or listen to his crap.  And crap I assure you it is, cant even research the basics of training.

That's why I like assessing, I dont have to listen to all the excuses, arguments, debates etc just hit the old paperwork with this stamp, mind you he needs it on the forehead





.......

Also he could improve his social skills so those who have work skills and knowledge beyond his aren't offended and walk away.


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## treemandan (Sep 28, 2009)

Nice to see everybody getting along...

I am thankful for it though, I have been watching my thumb , I have been slipping and not getting it where it should be. Thanks for the reminder.


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## outofmytree (Sep 28, 2009)

> The RTC2304A Operate and maintain chainsaws unit is not compulsory at all. I could have gotten my cert II and III without even having completed that unit, but it is packaged in with TAFE certs.



Thank you for proving my point. As is also the case in Western Australia, you cannot complete CertIII without first having done various prior units. For example, RTC2304a is a *mandatory* (or compulsory if you prefer) pre requisite for RTF3028a perform specialist amenity pruning, RTF3019a Remove trees in confined places and RTF3007a Fell large trees. I took the time to read your signature which boldly states you have completed a chainsaw unit and RTF3007a so I assumed I wouldnt have to join the dots for you......



> Look at the third diagram. Look familiar? Like when you had to limb that tree up that you just felled and hold the saw on unparalleled angles? Oh wait, that is right! Can't put yourself in the line of kick back! We must go get the pole saw to limb it up! Safety and bull#### first!



Oh dear. John are you saying that you know of no way to limb a felled tree without standing in the kickback line?! Do you hear what you are saying? Go back and read your lesson texts.



> I know how to use ANY chainsaw and keep my body out of the kickback line just like you probably do.


And yet you left it off the list of safe practises above and claim that standing out of the kickback line is not possible when limbing a felled tree.....

John no doubt you are a stalwart in your own sandbox but all you have done so far here is to contradict yourself and throw around trash talk. Please stay if you have more positive input.


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## Ekka (Sep 28, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Thank you for proving my point. As is also the case in Western Australia, you cannot complete CertIII without first having done various prior units. For example, RTC2304a is a *mandatory* (or compulsory if you prefer) pre requisite for RTF3028a perform specialist amenity pruning, RTF3019a Remove trees in confined places and RTF3007a Fell large trees. I took the time to read your signature which boldly states you have completed a chainsaw unit and RTF3007a so I assumed I wouldnt have to join the dots for you......



<Yawn> .... once again the expert eh! YOU ARE SO WRONG IT'S A DISGRACE!

This is why we charge a $450 application fee before we even look at peoples request, we'd have to double it for you though coz it's easily seen as twice the work because first we have empty the glass before we can fill it. 



> RTF30203: Certificate III in Horticulture (Arboriculture)
> Training Package notes
> 
> Pre-requisites and Co-requisites
> ...


Source: http://www.ntis.gov.au/Default.aspx?/trainingpackage/RTF03/qualification/RTF30203/rules

Look through those units you mentioned, there's no pre-requisites. *Find me where it says RTC2304a is a pre requisite for RTF3028a*. What TAFE does, being government, is keep themselves in a job by forcing their own perspectives of pre-requisites creating a step by step process. You dont even have to do the levels in order like 2,3,4,5,6 etc.... but they like you to.

From the same page .....



> Under the Australian Quality Training Framework (AQTF), the following requirements for Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL) are outlined:
> 
> *
> 
> ...



So, once again I have had to invest time arguing with a belligerent know all who knows little.


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## outofmytree (Sep 29, 2009)

Ekka you are always good for a chuckle.

I am smiling as I type this thinking about the response you would get in endeavouring to complete any chainsaw related TAFE subjects without first having a chainsaw cert....... Is it your assertation that John completed felling large trees with a nail file? 

The original question was whether the video posted was suitable to use in promoting a business. By your choice it has wandered far from that point. Your outrage,bluster and belligerence does not change the fact that what everyone else posting here was endeavouring to do was to help another arborist improve his business. Quite clearly you have another agenda.


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## tree MDS (Sep 29, 2009)

:chatter:

Good Lord, you guys are truely amazing.


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## Ekka (Sep 29, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Ekka you are always good for a chuckle.
> 
> I am smiling as I type this thinking about the response you would get in endeavouring to complete any chainsaw related TAFE subjects without first having a chainsaw cert....... Is it your assertation that John completed felling large trees with a nail file?



Your arrogance is only proceeded by your ignorance, even in the face of blatant evidence you still cannot get your thick head around the facts. :monkey:

And (as usual) fail to present any evidence to the contrary other than lip service, this question conveniently left unanswered... Find me where it says RTC2304a is a pre requisite for RTF3028a.


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## Ekka (Sep 29, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> :chatter:
> 
> Good Lord, you guys are truely amazing.



It may mean little to you guys (Americans) but the issue is greater than arguing about the Australian AQF system.

What you are witnessing is the typical tripe of OOMT coming from a position of ignorance and arrogance about something I know rather well, that is the issue and has been multiple times in the past on many other subjects. When you have some-one this stubborn and self righteous then often you just walk away and not care, but when the person screams his crap from the soapbox unchecked that requires some "pegging back".


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## JohN Dee (Sep 30, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> And yet you left it off the list of safe practises above and claim that standing out of the kickback line is not possible when limbing a felled tree.....:



That was a list of how to reduce kickback not a direct safe practices list.

*Isn't it funny with all of the questions you have been asked, none have been answered by yourself.*

I have had a positive input. I have contributed more then my own time and arrogance, unlike yourself.

*Put up or shut up*, dumb ass.


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## outofmytree (Sep 30, 2009)

Ekka said:


> And (as usual) fail to present any evidence to the contrary other than lip service, this question conveniently left unanswered... Find me where it says RTC2304a is a pre requisite for RTF3028a.





> I could have gotten my cert II and III without even having completed that unit, but it is packaged in with TAFE certs.



Even your clone miniEkka had to admit that chainsaw basics are an integral part of certification in Australia. Splitting hairs does not make you right it simply proves you foolish. You are in an arbor forum screaming at the top of your lungs that arborists in Australia do not have to know how to use a chainsaw?? You are all alone with your clone on that one.

My point is and has always been that the OP's video needs editing or reshooting if he is to use it to present a professional image. Once again you make it obvious that your mission here is not to help the OP but to pursue your own agenda.


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## outofmytree (Sep 30, 2009)

JohN Dee said:


> That was a list of how to reduce kickback not a direct safe practices list.
> 
> *Isn't it funny with all of the questions you have been asked, none have been answered by yourself.*
> 
> ...



You need a new tune miniEkka. Go back and read the answers I posted. You don't have to like them, but they are still correct.


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## Ekka (Oct 1, 2009)

<Yawn>

Still cant answer the question.

How about this then.

You can go do a Dip Arb, Level 5 straight off the bat. Yep, some people can and do shoot straight for that, but according to you that's not possible, oh such a bubble you live in! 

Like I said, expert idiot!


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## outofmytree (Oct 4, 2009)

Ekka said:


> <Yawn>
> 
> Still cant answer the question.
> 
> ...



:chatter:

Awwww. Sorry to burst your bubble Ekka, but after years of whining about how arb qualifications should be comprehensive and skill linked you will get no support for promoting a "go to Dip Arb, collect $200" about face. If you can't use a chainsaw, you shouldnt be in this game. Funny that you picked the unlocked left thumb and I picked keeping your body out of the kickback line both of which come *STRAIGHT FROM THE STIHL OWNERS MANUAL*. I guess in Ekka world you can only point out these errors if you have the Ekka stamp of approval.


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## JohN Dee (Oct 4, 2009)

No body is supporting jumping straight to their Dip Arb, just merely pointing out that one can with no pre requisite.

No body is saying that chainsaw basics should be avoided, just that they *can* be avoided. 

Look at your example of Operate and maintain chainsaws being a pre requisite for specialist amenity pruning. It does *not have a pre-requisite*. In the unit break down *it does not mention chainsaw use anywhere*.



RTF3028A Perform specialist amenity pruning - RANGE STATEMENT said:


> What pruning tools and equipment are likely to be used?
> 
> Pruning tools and equipment may include secateurs, pruners, handsaws, steps, chippers and mulchers.



This just goes to show that you do little to no research on topic matters, and if you were a loyal valuable member of this forum especially when you are "trying to represent the Aussie minority" on this forum you would be more thorough instead you are a hack mate. A hack. *If you aren't trained under the AQF system, hand back your franchise and start over.*

Oh by the way, think about this one dumb ass. Blocking down a vertical pole or even ground lining a stump - using the saw horizontally. Ya can't get out of the way of the potential kickback line. So you employ proper techniques to avoid kickback in the first place and if it does kick, your wrist activates the chain brake.


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## outofmytree (Oct 4, 2009)

JohN Dee said:


> ground lining a stump - using the saw horizontally. Ya can't get out of the way of the potential kickback line. So you employ proper techniques to avoid kickback in the first place and if it does kick, *your wrist activates the chain brake*.



I would love to see a picture of you lying on your side operating a rear handle saw in order to have your wrist in the way of the manual brake control. Once again you demonstrate that your qualifications allow you to speak but do *not equip you with wisdom.*

Now back to the OP.

He was limbing a vertical stick. Are you now saying that it is *NOT* possible to position your body so it is out of the kickback line? Go to jail, go directly to jail do not pass go do not collect 44AQF points


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## JohN Dee (Oct 4, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> I would love to see a picture of you lying on your side operating a rear handle saw in order to have your wrist in the way of the manual brake control. Once again you demonstrate that your qualifications allow you to speak but do *not equip you with wisdom.*



Lol, there will be no lying on my side, dumb ass. Once again I will gladly go out of my way and take a photo and maybe even a video of it to prove you wrong to the global arborist community. And I've never said or implied not once, that my qualifications equip me with wisdom, again dumb ass.



> He was limbing a vertical stick. Are you now saying that it is *NOT* possible to position your body so it is out of the kickback line? Go to jail, go directly to jail do not pass go do not collect 44AQF points



Not what I was saying at all, read between the lines dumb ass. Bucking down a vertical pole by using your chain saw horizontally to cut blocks. You *can not* be out of the kick back line. Unless you are an advocate of cutting above your head?

What he displayed in the video, yes he could get his body out of the potential kick back line - easily.

I see no come back to other statements, because you know you are wrong.

What is the matter dumb ass, running out of words?

*If you aren't trained under the AQF system, hand back your franchise and start over.*


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## Ekka (Oct 4, 2009)

<Yawn, once again>

And hence some age old wisdoms that go like this.



> Mathew 7:6
> 
> “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."



Or the common day version ...



> let sleeping dogs lie



Back to bed OOMT, your an embarrassment to human thought. :monkey:


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## outofmytree (Oct 4, 2009)

Ekka said:


> <Yawn, once again>
> 
> And hence some age old wisdoms that go like this.
> 
> ...



You and miniEkka are fun. Does he hump your leg too? All this waffle and still you cannot come clean and admit that what I said regarding the OP video was correct and the *ONLY* reason you got nasty was because I don't fall down and worship at your 44AQF points.


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## outofmytree (Oct 4, 2009)

JohN Dee said:


> What he displayed in the video, yes he could get his body out of the potential kick back line - easily.



Just as it says in the Stihl chainsaw operators manual. Which is what I told you a couple of dozen posts ago. Once again you prove me correct.



> I've never said or implied not once, that my qualifications equip me with wisdom


Just as well, otherwise you would have been committing yet another feux pas.



> Lol, there will be no lying on my side, dumb ass. Once again I will gladly go out of my way and take a photo and maybe even a video of it to prove you wrong to the global arborist community.





> using the saw horizontally. Ya can't get out of the way of the potential kickback line. So you employ proper techniques to avoid kickback in the first place and if it does kick, your wrist activates the chain brake.



I will really enjoy seeing those photos which show your left wrist engaging the brake manually whilst the saw is horizontal. Please feel free to post this tricky piece of contortionism at your earliest convenience.


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## Ekka (Oct 4, 2009)

<even more yawning ..... and a stretch>

Gee, seems the urinal empties into your posts OOMT. :hmm3grin2orange:


:notrolls2:


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## outofmytree (Oct 4, 2009)

Ekka said:


> <even more yawning ..... and a stretch>
> 
> Gee, seems the urinal empties into your posts OOMT. :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> ...



:spam:


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## tree MDS (Oct 4, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> You and miniEkka are fun. Does he hump your leg too? All this waffle and still you cannot come clean and admit that what I said regarding the OP video was correct and the *ONLY* reason you got nasty was because I don't fall down and worship at your 44AQF points.



Now that was pretty funny. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## treeseer (Oct 12, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Now that was pretty funny. :hmm3grin2orange:


Yeah it was...if Pissing Contests becomes an Olympic sport, Australia is sure to sweep gold, silver and bronze.

Treeboggan, thanks for posting. That video should impress clients with your skill at blocking down trees. The details like one-handing and grabbing (I prefer using the tip to guide the butt away) are important to tree guys but not clients.

Do you use any Ergo-Schnitt tools?


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## Boa07 (Oct 13, 2009)

> if Pissing Contests becomes an Olympic sport, Australia is sure to sweep gold, silver and bronze



Hmmmm......maybe, but I very seriously doubt that there is much difference between us...in that particular regard...based on the colour of our passports matey.


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## treeseer (Oct 13, 2009)

Boa07 said:


> Hmmmm......maybe, but I very seriously doubt that there is much difference between us...in that particular regard...based on the colour of our passports matey.


not the whole island sean; it only would take 3 to sweep and you must admit there are some very dedicated pissers over there.

but that was hyperbole and i apologize to you and your civil countryfolk. :censored:


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## Ekka (Oct 25, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Awwww. Sorry to burst your bubble Ekka, but after years of whining about how arb qualifications should be comprehensive and skill linked you will get no support for promoting a "go to Dip Arb, collect $200" about face. If you can't use a chainsaw, you shouldnt be in this game.



I have let this lie for some time now however succumb to comment as I cannot let a fallacy dominate fact. There is no about face, just knowledge and competence that OOMT doesn't have nor is experienced or qualified to discuss.

From:- http://www.ntis.gov.au/Default.aspx.../volume/RTF03_3/chapter/QualFrameworkMandText

You can see entry to all levels, not my criteria but the AQTF criteria. 







Now some-one like OOMT may ridicule it, or the messenger but there's reasons for things (which stupid people rarely ask for).



treeseer said:


> if Pissing Contests becomes an Olympic sport, Australia is sure to sweep gold, silver and bronze.



When one equates a pissing contest to differentiating between fact and fiction then we understand why some mentalities go to war over fantasies not facts. There's no pissing contest here, unless you are delirious. :notrolls2:


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 25, 2009)

The video has great camera work, and the pip in the corner of the view is a great addition. The material in the main view and the pip could be modified towards the random, know nothing customer than towards tree climbing fanatics.

5 minutes is too drawn out for customers. The don't care about the nuances in the techniques. They don't even know what those are for even if you show them off. 

Just flash through the whole job in a minute or minute and a half. Make the job look hard, tedious, and so dangerous only those heros can pull this kind of work off. Make it look as though you are are a bunch of pros though. Briefly flash all of this before their eyes, and there will be no way in hell they can assume your work is worth less than what it is.

The camera work was clear and steady. Good job.


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## treebogan (Oct 25, 2009)

The guy who filmed the Video had been a Camera man for an Italian TV channel.Fortunatly for us there was a steep hill with a platform build on it to the side of where we were Climbing.That enabled him to take footage at a level almost equal to me in hight.

I agree that the video is a little bit too long,he did mention this.However we cut alot out of his original edit.

Its main thrust is to show potential clients that we don't simply Fell the Tree in one,or tie ladders to it and limb it with Pole Saws.


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## outofmytree (Oct 26, 2009)

Ekka said:


> I have let this lie for some time now however succumb to comment as I cannot let a fallacy dominate fact. There is no about face, just knowledge and competence that OOMT doesn't have nor is experienced or qualified to discuss.



Whenever you climb on your pedastal atop your ivory tower to pontificate to the masses Ekka I seem to hear the Superman movie theme in the background.

I have a couple of questions SuperEkka. 

Why do you wear your underwear outside your trousers?

Does having xray vision mean you dont need to do a VTA like us mortals?

Don't take another 22 days to thrill the audience Ekka, reply soon. We love it!


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## outofmytree (Oct 26, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> The video has great camera work, and the pip in the corner of the view is a great addition. The material in the main view and the pip could be modified towards the random, know nothing customer than towards tree climbing fanatics.
> 
> 5 minutes is too drawn out for customers. The don't care about the nuances in the techniques. They don't even know what those are for even if you show them off.
> 
> ...



Good points here imo. A shorter version would allow the consumer to see your skills and let you edit out any controversial cuts.

Treebogan I think the video you posted is what in Australia we call the rushes. That is, the film you see before the final editing. There are some great shots overall and with some hard cuts you could produce just what FTA has suggested. A great promo video for clients who will be wowed by a tree dismantled from a harness and not a bucket.

If you use the video as is, good luck to you. If you decide to edit it further please post it here. I would love to see it.


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## Ekka (Oct 26, 2009)

Oh the enlightenment of ignorance.


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## Plasmech (Oct 26, 2009)

Well I mean, let's remember one thing, a lot of tree services in the US don't even have a web site let alone a professionally made video, so let's at least give him that!


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 28, 2009)

Tree Bogan, this is your hook for you web site. Take a look at the time lapsed video here in this forum. It's like 9 seconds long, but it's perfect it's exactly what is catchy to a customer. 

I think a lot of customers kind of want to be taken in like they do when they go to see a movie. Your video, while filmed very well, was something that would make people just kind of want to drip off of their chairs non chalantly, and forget about the tree take down video. The time lapsed video takes a customer for all they're going to get out of it the tree job in on blast. 

One, they want the tree done. Two, they don't and can't do the labor themselves. Three, sum up the whole thing in one fling, and save them their time i.e. time lapesed video of a tree take down. 

Make it catchy and conservative with the music like in the time lapsed video here on this forum, and you have put yourself at the top of customers' lists of which companies they have to choose gets the jobs, or they just call you for the good vibe and confidence the video instilled in them. The long video you've got, would not do that. 

Use the camera man you used on the time lapsed job, and wallah. I think you've got a real bread winning hook in your neigborhood, my friend.


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## tree MDS (Oct 28, 2009)

ForTheAction said:


> Tree Bogan, this is your hook for you web site. Take a look at the time lapsed video here in this forum. It's like 9 seconds long, but it's perfect it's exactly what is catchy to a customer.
> 
> I think a lot of customers kind of want to be taken in like they do when they go to see a movie. Your video, while filmed very well, was something that would make people just kind of want to drip off of their chairs non chalantly, and forget about the tree take down video. The time lapsed video takes a customer for all they're going to get out of it the tree job in on blast.
> 
> ...



Yeah, you could do that too...if only you could actually do any treework! lol.  

Man I'm sick of your babbling on dude.


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## ForTheArborist (Oct 28, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Yeah, you could do that too...if only you could actually do any treework! lol.
> 
> Man I'm sick of your babbling on dude.



*C=====8* 

Get sick on my 9 inches, "DUDE" :hmm3grin2orange:

Creepin, drunk MF.


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