# Getting into Reloading, anyone else?



## iCreek (Apr 12, 2009)

Well I have been wanting to do this for years, but with the recent ammo shortage I have taken it upon myself to start gathering items needed to get into reloading. I love hobbies and learning new stuff, so I thought it would be a good fit. My brother has been reloading for about 20 years, so he said he would help me get started once I got the items. My next and last item is a press, settled for a LEE Turret Deluxe kit, picking it up next week. I will be reloading, 9mm and .40 S&W and can't wait to get started. Got some brass tumbing as we speak.

Any others here doing reloading?


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## HEAVY FUEL (Apr 12, 2009)

I was reloading 25-06 and 22-250 til about 4 years ago when CAD attacked me and now me reloading stuff is starting to get rusty.


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## rngrchad (Apr 12, 2009)

My twin brother came out to the house today for Easter. He brought out his new Springfield XDM 40 handgun. We shot about a hundred dollars worth of rounds through his new gun. Then got onto the subject of handloading. I think he's gonna buy a kit and some dies soon.....I can't wait because I want some hot loads for the 22-250 I've got!!


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## iCreek (Apr 12, 2009)

rngrchad said:


> My twin brother came out to the house today for Easter. He brought out his new Springfield XDM 40 handgun. We shot about a hundred dollars worth of rounds through his new gun. Then got onto the subject of handloading. I think he's gonna buy a kit and some dies soon.....I can't wait because I want some hot loads for the 22-250 I've got!!



That is funny, I am getting a XDm, probably the 9mm. Probably the most advanced new handgun on the market, match barrel, highest capacity, adjustable grip, etc. etc. Congrats to him, that is a fine choice. Did you enjoy shooting it, your thought?


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## dingeryote (Apr 12, 2009)

iCreek said:


> Well I have been wanting to do this for years, but with the recent ammo shortage I have taken it upon myself to start gathering items needed to get into reloading. I love hobbies and learning new stuff, so I thought it would be a good fit. My brother has been reloading for about 20 years, so he said he would help me get started once I got the items. My next and last item is a press, settled for a LEE Turret Deluxe kit, picking it up next week. I will be reloading, 9mm and .40 S&W and can't wait to get started. Got some brass tumbing as we speak.
> 
> Any others here doing reloading?



Started loading my own back in '79 for CMP competition, and went from there.

Am running a Dillon 650 for 9mm,44mag,.45acp and 5.56 ammo, and a Hornady 007 for precision rifle and low volume pistol ammo.

Right now pimers and brass are the hardest to come by.
Stock up a bit if you can.

If you get hard into it, and don't mind working up your own data, there is some cost savings running surplus Mil. powders.
Best I have found is from Pat McDonald www.patsreloading.com no sweep up powder or pull down powder, just surplus in 8lb jugs for a good price.
Check him for brass and projectiles as well.

The one thing most folks overlook is a chronograph.
Once you get one, you'll realize how limited you were without one.

Just a heads up on safety.

A little practice to keep, is to store your powder canisters away from the loading bench and only one canister of powder on the bench at a time...period. When you're done throwing charges, recover the powder from the measure into the canister, and put the canister back.
Never go to bed with powder outside of the canister.

This will keep you from ever mixing powders, or switching powders unintentionally.

Another little practice is an "Oops" bucket.
Any cartridge you load that you get a funny feeling about, put it in there.
Pull the bullets later and dump the charges.
Use the mixed up dumped charges on the garden or flower bed, as it 20% or better nitrogen and cellulose fertilizer for all the plants care.
Don't risk an eyeball over saving 30 cents.....

With .40S&W you'll find some freaky/peaky pressures with a few powders that are popular, and the temptation is to just drop 10% of the listed max charge weight and run it. DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.40 Brass cases vary in volume from lot to lot, and combined with the higher pressures of the .40 you can get into trouble quick with just .020 bullet setback on feeding.
Always use a FL Carbide sizing die to completely iron put the bulge from unsupported chambers.
Taper crimp the SNOT outta .40 and work your loads up.

You're gonna have a ball once you get going, and at some point the loading will become as much of a hobby as shooting!! LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## iCreek (Apr 12, 2009)

Wow, thanks for the great info, I have 4 lbs of powder, Hodgdon and Powder Pistol, been getting brass local gun shows, picked up 3000+ 9mm shot once range brass for $50, and getting some on GunBroker. I lucked into some primers, and stocked up, 9K small pistol, 3K small rifle, and 3K large rifle for my M1 carbine.


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## dingeryote (Apr 12, 2009)

iCreek said:


> Wow, thanks for the great info, I have 4 lbs of powder, Hodgdon and Powder Pistol, been getting brass local gun shows, picked up 3000+ 9mm shot once range brass for $50, and getting some on GunBroker. I lucked into some primers, and stocked up, 9K small pistol, 3K small rifle, and 3K large rifle for my M1 carbine.




LOL!!!!

If you thought CAD was bad..... Cad is the common cold compared to the reloading bug!!!

Shooting leads to loading, loading leads to shooting, curiosity and tinkering leads to precision loading, precision loading leads to precision rifles, precision loading then leads to bullet swaging and case forming wildcats....LOL!!

I'm between cycles right now. Still load in volume for the Carbine and sidearms, but the call of the woodchuck is on me and the old hornet is calling LOL!!

Stay safe!!
Dingeryote


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## 2000ssm6 (Apr 12, 2009)

Me and a buddy have been wanting to do it for years also. There isn't no better time to start than now, sad to say.

.357 sig is kickin' my wallet's butt.


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## dingeryote (Apr 12, 2009)

2000ssm6 said:


> Me and a buddy have been wanting to do it for years also. There isn't no better time to start than now, sad to say.
> 
> .357 sig is kickin' my wallet's butt.




2000,

I QUIT loading for the .357sig. It was a pain in the butt and not worth the extra time. LOL!!!

I can get 800 rounds an hour or so with .45acp, but only maybe 100 with the 357sig.

Neck tension and collapsed shoulder nightmares still haunt me at times LOL!!

Got a batch of Fed. Brass one time that was giving me FITS. Ran the Ball mike and sure enough, case wall at the mouth was .004 less than the previous batch and enough to cause some sloppy seating even when adjusted out. Ended up polishing the expander ball down .002 and that worked great untill the next batch..and it was too small and folded shoulders!!!:censored::censored:

Good luck with that sort of thing!!! LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## 046 (Apr 12, 2009)

reloading is a wonderful thing! 

used to be reloading was optional... now days if you shoot any at all... reloading is a necessity. 

been stocking up on dies, primers, powder and brass. 
primers are locked up in the gun safe. 

one thing that helps is to setup a reloading station. only use that work station for reloading and nothing else. 

got two chronographs for different duties.


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## 2000ssm6 (Apr 12, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> 2000,
> 
> I QUIT loading for the .357sig. It was a pain in the butt and not worth the extra time. LOL!!!
> 
> ...



I figured the necks would be a problem, they sure will give a new guy like me to reloading a fit, think I'll stay away for now thanks for the heads up.

We shoot mostly 9mm anyway, 12ga was our main priority for buying reloading equipment. From local sources, we could reload a standard birdshot shell for $0.40 each, cheaper to buy the box for $6.50 now, LOL.


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## dingeryote (Apr 12, 2009)

2000ssm6 said:


> I figured the necks would be a problem, they sure will give a new guy like me to reloading a fit, think I'll stay away for now thanks for the heads up.
> 
> We shoot mostly 9mm anyway, 12ga was our main priority for buying reloading equipment. From local sources, we could reload a standard birdshot shell for $0.40 each, cheaper to buy the box for $6.50 now, LOL.



For a while 9mm was running about 30 bucks a K more than loading your own so I quit for a while. It's back to bieng cheaper to load if you have a good cheap source of jacketed bullets or shoot cast.

Shotgun ammo is silly!!
The Wally world Value packs are cheaper than I can load 'em.

My old MEC has been in a box for years now. Shot prices are decent enough, it's the freight that jacks the final price up to :jawdrop: levels.

Dealers that do a high volume of loading supplies can cut the price a bit, but still not enough to out cheap the Value packs.

Have you ever looked at the Ballistics of some of the newer 9mm loads?
Some are creeping up on the 357sig and within 100fps.
That's when I sent my XD down the river and went back to the old G19.

This latest ammo drought has me burning up old stocks of .22LR in the MKII and LOTS(Clicking on the G-19 now) of dry firing LOL!!

I found a case of PMC subsonic I forgot I had, and it wont cycle anything semi-auto..guess I need a Kit Gun or K-22 now. Hmmmm.

Bieng broke sucks!!! LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## 046 (Apr 13, 2009)

ammo prices are going through the roof... 

paid $420 for a thousand rounds of Federal .223 ... ouch...

need to pickup a set of .223 dies


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## spankrz (Apr 13, 2009)

i shoot trap, so you bet i have been thinking about reloading some. about 7/box thease days for decent 12ga shells, 6.50 for the trash shells.


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## dingeryote (Apr 13, 2009)

spankrz said:


> i shoot trap, so you bet i have been thinking about reloading some. about 7/box thease days for decent 12ga shells, 6.50 for the trash shells.



Save those HULLS!!!

Last time(Klinton) things got silly in the components market, AA's were having issues and the only thing worth having were the Remmie Green magics and they were GOLD!!!

Greenbriar resort was the only reliable source then, and they are now Bankrupt LOL!!!

What a mess!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## rob206 (Apr 13, 2009)

Been reloading since I was a kid under my dad's supervision. I find it to be very relaxing and satisfying. I load for all of my rifles and handguns, plus I have a MEC Sizemaster for my 12ga. Be sure to get a few reloading manuals and be careful of loads posted on the net.

My parents gave me a bullet casting kit for Christmas and that will be my next step in reloading; pouring my own bullets. I need to build a nice sturdy bench first. I also need to clean out my garage so that I have a nice clean area with no distractions.

Bullet seating depth is something to pay attention to, especially with handgun cartridges. You will be using fast burning powders and small volume cases. Bullets seated too deep can cause pressure to rise fast. Your gun will not like a steady diet of proof loads.


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## 2000ssm6 (Apr 13, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> Have you ever looked at the Ballistics of some of the newer 9mm loads?
> Some are creeping up on the 357sig and within 100fps.
> That's when I sent my XD down the river and went back to the old G19.
> 
> ...



Well I got the G19C covered, and plenty of high cap mags plus about 7 of the factory 33 rounders. I carry powerball's in it and my Kahr P9, VERY impressive ballistics but the fullsize M&P in .357 sig hasn't let me down yet. I used to be a big .40 S&W fan boy, until I used the .357, sold all my .40 stuff and went to .357.

I'm going through alot of cheap bricks in my MK2 also, 10/22 getting shot just as much sometimes. I found 15 of the cheap federal bricks on sale at wally world one time for $8 each, the sales guy thought I was nuts for buying them all.


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## WVwoodsman (Apr 13, 2009)

I too am getting into reloading being that ammo prices are sky rocketing. I am leaning toward a Hornady Lock N Load auto progressive press. I will be reloading 45 auto, 270 and 7.62x39 for now. I have watched my brother in law use his Dillion progressive press and I like the idea of doing everything at once. Yes they cost a little more money, but I don't want to have to fumble around and de prime all brass and then have to handle them again for each additional step: sizing, crimping. This will also give me some thing to do during the winter months when it's too cold out.


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## rob206 (Apr 13, 2009)

WVwoodsman said:


> I too am getting into reloading being that ammo prices are sky rocketing. I am leaning toward a Hornady Lock N Load auto progressive press. I will be reloading *45 auto, 270 *and 7.62x39 for now. I have watched my brother in law use his Dillion progressive press and I like the idea of doing everything at once. Yes they cost a little more money, but I don't want to have to fumble around and de prime all brass and then have to handle them again for each additional step: sizing, crimping. This will also give me some thing to do during the winter months when it's too cold out.



I find that Bullseye works very well with 200gr SWC in the 45. For your 270, H4350/4831, RL19 or IMR4350/4831 have all performed well for me in terms of accuracy.


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## rngrchad (Apr 13, 2009)

iCreek said:


> That is funny, I am getting a XDm, probably the 9mm. Probably the most advanced new handgun on the market, match barrel, highest capacity, adjustable grip, etc. etc. Congrats to him, that is a fine choice. Did you enjoy shooting it, your thought?



I've put over 2000 rounds through a Sig Sauer 9mm. I LOVE the SIG. My bro's 40 XDm is AMAZING. A little tack-driver iCreek. I thoroughly enjoyed shooting it. I was blown away that he has 16 round mags for it. When you get yours you ought to post some pics and a thread in the outdoor section.


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## wood4heat (Apr 14, 2009)

I just picked up a XD9 and am now in search of ammo.  Talked to my FIL about it this weekend and he told me he used to be into reloading and has all the equipment mounted to a roll cart out in his shop. He's gonna give it all to me I'll just have to get dies for my 9mm and 7mm Rem mag rifle. This thread came along at the perfect time, reloading is something I've been interested in as well and I can't wait to get started.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Apr 14, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> 2000,
> 
> I QUIT loading for the .357sig. It was a pain in the butt and not worth the extra time. LOL!!!
> 
> ...



+1 .357 sig is a PITA. I bought a 9mm conversion barrel for my Glock 31 so I can afford to practice.

Pic from the loading bench.







.223, .50 cal w/ Lehigh 800gr solid, .50 APIT cut away (I was bored), 30-06


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## JONSEREDFAN6069 (Apr 14, 2009)

i run reloads in my 44 dessert eagle, my savage 338 mag. i have 2 and a half 45 gallon drums of spent 12 gauge shells. do alot of clay's. looking for
equipment for reloading shot shells.


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## JohnJr (Apr 16, 2009)

I load for .243, 7mm Mag, and .338 WinMag. I like to get regular practice with all 3 so the savings are huge!! The last box of Federal premium that I bout in 338 was $65!!!!


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## LD1 (Apr 16, 2009)

I reload for the 12ga and the .223. It is definatally very relaxing. 

The shotgun is reloaded for cost savings as it gets used alot with trapshooting and skeet.

The .223 which only gets used 30times a year at most killing groundhogs is reloaded for precision accuracy and not cost savings. No progressive press for me, it's one step at a time and everything charge is weighed indivdually to make certain it is exact.


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## Stihl Does It (Apr 17, 2009)

I've been reloading for a bit over a decade. I use RCBS for the majority of my gear. I do have some Hornady and assorted Ideal, Lyman, Lee, Pacific, Texan, and other outdated gear that I've collected.

If you're a firearms enthusiast, then once the reloading bug bites you're infected for life.

Follow sound reloading practices. Consult more than one reloading manual, including the free powder mfg guides. The powder mfgs will have their reloading info posted online. I suggest you also have them send you a free hard copy of their current guide. They will do that for free.

If you use one particular name brand bullet mfg for your reloads, then I suggest you get their current manual.

Personally I like the Speer and Hornady manuals and like to keep current with those. I do have Sierra and Nosler from recent publishings.

I try to consult from 2 to 3 manuals for each load I work up, looking specifically at the starting and max powder charges they used as well as the weight and type of bullet, including over all length (OAL).

Good luck on your reloading endeavors.


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## LD1 (Apr 17, 2009)

I currently use the lyman manual. 48th edition i think.

I have read the speer and nosler manuals as well and they are great for loading data, but if you want some very educational reading about all aspects of reloading the lyman IMO is the best. 

Anyone I know who is looking at getting into reloading, this is the manual I always recomend.


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## 046 (Apr 17, 2009)

for those of ya that's been reloading forever... you probably got 2 and 3's of everything. 

but for a newbie just getting started. one of the best options is RCBS Rockchucker Master Reloading Kit. which includes everything except the shell holder and dies. naturally doesn't include reloading supplies like powder, primer, bullets, etc. 

all the pieces are top quality... Rockchucker is the standard for manual presses. my favorite is an old Rockchucker made in the 60's. the new one sits in the box. 

includes Hornady reloading reference book (which you will need)... scales.. power dispenser... tray... lube... etc.. etc..


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## LD1 (Apr 17, 2009)

:agree2:

Thats the exact setup I've been using for 10+ years


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## rob206 (Apr 18, 2009)

Stihl Does It said:


> I've been reloading for a bit over a decade. I use RCBS for the majority of my gear. I do have some Hornady and assorted Ideal, Lyman, Lee, Pacific, Texan, and other outdated gear that I've collected.
> 
> If you're a firearms enthusiast, then once the reloading bug bites you're infected for life.
> 
> ...



Excellent post and excellent practice.


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## M.R. (Apr 18, 2009)

Haven't been doing as much shooting/reloading as I would like in the last few years.

A couple of quick thoughts after a quick skim.

Good & complete Record/Data keeping! 
Current manuals.
The metal Bench/carpet if any should have a good earth ground. 
Scales away from or not set up on the bench when using the press.
ATTENTION to detail.
Recheck then double check again....... 
Never when tired/fatigued. 

Hot loads & accuracy may not always go together.
Almost all the guns I've purchased -I've worked up the most accurate loads with different bullets & weights, then have moved on to another, recun' it jusk too much fun to dial them in.


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## mbopp (Apr 18, 2009)

I had been out of shooting & reloading for 20-25 years but just got back into it. 30-06, 308, 44 Mag, 357 Mag, 357 Herrett (14" Contender) and 45 ACP. Yeah, you can't find bullets or brass and primers are scarce. Lead time on cast bullets is running 4-5 weeks from the guy I buy from.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 18, 2009)

M.R. said:


> Haven't been doing as much shooting/reloading as I would like in the last few years.
> 
> A couple of quick thoughts after a quick skim.
> 
> ...



Handloader magazine and Pet Loads provide rock solid info. Both resources describe in detail how to detect and control pressure. When working up brand new loads, I check my fired cases visually and with a micrometer for signs of excess pressure. I check my new loads with a ballistic chronograph. I visually check all of my cases after every firing. I pay particularly close attention to the expansion ring on bottleneck cases. I keep detailed records on all of my loads in a Midway Shooters Notebook. 

*Pay attention to details. Keep detailed records. When in doubt, throw it out.*


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## Stihl Does It (Apr 19, 2009)

Keep records of your loads and lot number each batch. I suggest you print out an Excell or similar grid spreadsheet to make your notations.

Powder Mfg manuals should be free from any retailer who sells smokeless powder. You can also request them online with less hassle and free shipping.

Keep current on the manuals on the bullet mfgrs you use the most.

Buy plenty of powder, primers, and bullets. Just be sure to leave enough for me!


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 19, 2009)

*How to detect incipient head separations on bottleneck cases.*

Two incipient head separations during one target shooting session with factory loads taught me to pay careful attention to the expansion ring on all fired bottleneck cases. 

The condition of both the inside and outside surfaces of the expansion ring of all fired cases should be inspected. 

The inside surface of expansion rings on bottleneck cases can be checked with a feeler gauge. To make a feeler gauge, take a wire paperclip, bend the end 90 degrees, and sharpen its end to a point.

Insert the feeler gauge into a fired case and feel the complete inside circumference of the expansion ring. If the feeler gauge "snags" or doesn't slide over the expansion ring smoothly, you have an incipient head separation. Throw that case away.

An incipient head separation is an sign that something is causing excessive flow, or working, of the brass.

After experiencing 2 incipient head separations with my .257 Roberts, I found the cause. My rifle's chamber was of maximum diameter. My RCBS full-length resizing dies were of minimum diameter. I mailed my resizing die and 4 fired cases to the manufacturer. When the manufacturer sent me a replacement resizing die, the problem went away.

In the above incident, the factory loads showed no signs of excessive pressure.


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## rob206 (Apr 20, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Two incipient head separations during one target shooting session with factory loads taught me to pay careful attention to the expansion ring on all fired bottleneck cases.
> 
> The condition of both the inside and outside surfaces of the expansion ring of all fired cases should be inspected.
> 
> ...



First thing I thought of was oversized chamber, seeing that this happened with factory ammo. 
For my .338 win mag I only neck size with a Lee collet die. These brass have been reloaded many times and no apparent incipient head separations yet. Something I always look for, especially with a belted rim.


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## crowbuster (Apr 20, 2009)

Been loading for years, 9mm to 300 wby mag, shotgun as well. Get a good manual or 3 and always double check everything. Keep good records and notes and keep distractions away at all times. Have fun and good luck.

c.b


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 20, 2009)

rob206 said:


> First thing I thought of was oversized chamber, seeing that this happened with factory ammo.
> For my .338 win mag I only neck size with a Lee collet die. These brass have been reloaded many times and no apparent incipient head separations yet. Something I always look for, especially with a belted rim.



Incipient head separations are very scary. I shoot modern rifles (Ruger M77R) with strong actions. If a complete head separation did occur, the gas will escape safely. What happens to weak and cheap rifles is not a pretty picture.

I do not load to maximum pressure. I work up new loads until I begin to detect pressure signs. I then back off to safe/conservative pressures and still have good velocity. I get very long case life in .270 Win and .257 Roberts.

My ballistic chronograph tells me there are no advantages in maximum loads. Maximum loads are hard on cases, hard on shooters, and hard on rifles.


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## weimedog (Apr 20, 2009)

I dabbled in that (Reloading & Cowboy Shoots) game back in the 1990's in Colorado...a divorce and life events ended the hobby for me plus my current bride doesn't like even the few pieces left over..so most of the rest went away years ago.

I have remenets of those years I would gladly trade away for the advance of "CAD" related pursuits!

Dies, Brass, etc. Shoot; (No pun intended) I don't even own guns for the stuff I have left over! I Just haven't found a way to gracefully move it along...and it all needs to go. Especially the .45 long colt and .357 dies & supplies I don't even have a firearm for! Same with 30-30. 

Having said that, reloading can be a lot of technical type fun for those with the proper mind set! AND if you do get into competition, reloading will save you money.


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## iCreek (Apr 20, 2009)

Lots of good information here, I am planning on seperating head stamps, researching loads, stay on the light side, keep good records, etc. I got the press mounted this weekend, deprimed 600 rds of 9mm brass. It was raining outside, so made some good down time.


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## Stihl Does It (Apr 21, 2009)

I made my own reloading log sheets from Excel and have them stored in a three ring binder so I can add or move them around.

If you do this, make sure that the rows and columns are large enough for you to make your notations.

I note perameters like caliber, date, OAL, bullet, powder, powder charge, primer, case mfg (if significant), and my own lot number that is referenced on the labels on the storage boxes (usually 50 ct for handgun).

I probably left out some info, it's late and I'm too tired to grab my records, but hopefully you get the gist of it.

Keep good records of all your reloads and label those reloads!

Good luck on your newest hobby. It's at least as expensive as CAD in the long run, but just as fun if not more!


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## rob206 (Apr 21, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Incipient head separations are very scary. I shoot modern rifles (Ruger M77R) with strong actions. If a complete head separation did occur, the gas will escape safely. What happens to weak and cheap rifles is not a pretty picture.
> 
> I do not load to maximum pressure. I work up new loads until I begin to detect pressure signs. I then back off to safe/conservative pressures and still have good velocity. I get very long case life in .270 Win and .257 Roberts.
> 
> My ballistic chronograph tells me there are no advantages in maximum loads. Maximum loads are hard on cases, hard on shooters, and hard on rifles.



I hear ya about loading to max. I usually load in the mid range. Now, my .284win based on an Argentine 1909 mauser likes by the book max loads. By "likes" I mean it is very accurate, less than MOA. I don't ever go over max listed charges, and always work up to them.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 21, 2009)

Stihl Does It said:


> I made my own reloading log sheets from Excel and have them stored in a three ring binder so I can add or move them around.
> 
> If you do this, make sure that the rows and columns are large enough for you to make your notations.
> 
> ...



The Midway Shooter's Handbook has all of that and more. It is a 3-ring binder with loose-leaf pages. The data pages are configured so we won't overlook anything. Some of the pages are targets. The binder includes vinyl pockets for loose items.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 21, 2009)

rob206 said:


> I hear ya about loading to max. I usually load in the mid range. Now, my .284win based on an Argentine 1909 mauser likes by the book max loads. By "likes" I mean it is very accurate, less than MOA. I don't ever go over max listed charges, and always work up to them.



Working up new loads is where a ballistic chronograph becomes invaluable.

When grains-of-power vs velocity is plotted on an x-y graph, the graph will be a straight line. As the loads increase, the straight line will break and bend over towards level. The area around that "knee" is where muzzle blast and signs of excessive pressure begin to be noticed. Adding more powder after this "knee" is reached is just a waste of powder.

Safe and accurate loads with good velocity and long case life are usually 2-3 grains below the "knee".

The capability of measuring both headspace and case length with RCBS Precision Mic Sets has enabled me to adjust my full-length resizing dies for minimum resizing. My brass is now being worked much less and I am getting longer case life.

There are always new goodies and tools to be acquired.


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## rob206 (Apr 23, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Working up new loads is where a ballistic chronograph becomes invaluable.
> 
> When grains-of-power vs velocity is plotted on an x-y graph, the graph will be a straight line. As the loads increase, the straight line will break and bend over towards level. The area around that "knee" is where muzzle blast and signs of excessive pressure begin to be noticed. Adding more powder after this "knee" is reached is just a waste of powder.
> 
> ...



I really want to get my dad's chronograph working again. It needs new screens. I never thought about plotting velocity/powder charge on an x,y graph, but it sure makes sense. I am aware though that velocity per grain falls off after a certain point. Ross Seyfried who used to write for Handloader had an outstanding article about reading and measuring pressure signs.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 23, 2009)

rob206 said:


> I really want to get my dad's chronograph working again. It needs new screens. I never thought about plotting velocity/powder charge on an x,y graph, but it sure makes sense. I am aware though that velocity per grain falls off after a certain point. Ross Seyfried who used to write for Handloader had an outstanding article about reading and measuring pressure signs.



Handloader magazine is a great magazine with great writers. Years ago, Bob Hagel sent me a personal letter answering my query to the NRA about load development for .257 Roberts in a newly purchased Ruger M77. The NRA knows exactly who the best experts are.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 23, 2009)

*The NWO is coming.*

Are you licensed to reload that ammo?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95733


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## rob206 (Apr 24, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Are you licensed to reload that ammo?
> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95733



Wow. Imagine what will happen when this story gets around. This will make the current shortage of ammo and components look like pretty good times. I wonder if the mob will get into black market reloading supplies? I am not being sarcastic either.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 24, 2009)

*Bans don't work.*



rob206 said:


> Wow. Imagine what will happen when this story gets around. This will make the current shortage of ammo and components look like pretty good times. I wonder if the mob will get into black market reloading supplies? I am not being sarcastic either.



The *Anti mentality* is the reason the Obumbler is the *Best Salesman in America* for stocking up on firearms, ammo and handloading components.

The "ban it, or "Prohibition" mentality of the Antis is what invited the Mafia into America in the first place. The prohibition of alcohol caused America to be swimming in Black Markets of both crime and booze.

"License" or "registration" are stealth synonyms for "Prohibition". Bans always cause Black Markets. The mob that is smuggling drugs into America is now smuggling firearms to the Drug Mafia of Mexico.

Check out what the Drew Cary Project says about the incredible stupidity of the "ban it" mentality. *Antis are idiots!!!!*

The Drew Cary Project
http://www.reason.tv/


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## WVwoodsman (Apr 24, 2009)

Wow, that was a scary read about reloading and where the laws could possibly be headed. Rep sent for that one, good post!


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## iCreek (Apr 25, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Are you licensed to reload that ammo?
> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95733



Sure is some scary stuff...

The truth of the matter:

This treaty was signed by William Jefferson Clinton and has been sitting in the Senate, dead, since 1997, under the leadership of both parties, and has remained dead.

They do not have the support to pass it through the Senate. That requires 51 votes. A treaty requires a 2/3 majority. They aren't going to get that.

The Senate is lead by Harry Reid, who voted against the AWB twice. He represents pro-gun Nevada. He's up for re-election next year and he's not going to put through any anti-gun law, and especially an anti-gun treaty, with his job on the line. At least lets hope not.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 25, 2009)

WVwoodsman said:


> Wow, that was a scary read about reloading and where the laws could possibly be headed. Rep sent for that one, good post!



Scary-Jerry (Governor Moonbeam) Brown, California's current Attorney General, has been doing secret house-to-house searches looking for so-called "assault weapons". Total denial and not a peep about it in the Drive-By, Meanstream Media. We need to keep our radars and "Moonbeam Detectors" on. One never can tell where a Moonbeam could be lurking.


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## ShoerFast (Apr 27, 2009)

rob206 said:


> I really want to get my dad's chronograph working again. It needs new screens. I never thought about plotting velocity/powder charge on an x,y graph, but it sure makes sense. I am aware though that velocity per grain falls off after a certain point. Ross Seyfried who used to write for Handloader had an outstanding article about reading and measuring pressure signs.



All good advice here, and if I may add?

Years ago I read an article that was titled 'You Don't Need a Bass Boat Either' and the gist of it was getting by without all the whistles and bells. 

Back on the farm, we reloaded just about everything we shot, and our motto was that "they will mine it for lead someday"!

We shot a lot at distance, we saved about every big chunk of cardboard we got our hands on to set up to shoot at. 

What we found was that finding that sweet spot was the least amount drop below point of aim, with the tightest group. (edit: while watching for excessive pressure signs)

Most rifles start to give very little back with an increase of powder, we never knew there was a name for it, we just loaded to the point we got the best results. 

Perhaps the most important thing we could deduce from shooting at range was that you could back track bullet speeds from known data. 

Just for a say, if a rifle sighted in at 200 yards was shooting a .308 165 grain .400BC bullet 50" low at 500 yards, we knew it had to leave the barrel at about 2700fps. From that we could look up how much energy that load would have at any given range. Or in this case, about 1300 foot-pounds at about 400 yards. 

Today, this information is way easier to come by, here is a free Ammunition and Ballistics Catalog down loadable from Federal Link:


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