# ATC-like device for 1/2" rope



## nosliw (Jul 21, 2008)

I really like ATCs, especially the Guide model for rockclimbing. But, I have a True-Blue rope for my tree climbing, which is 1/2". 

Is that too much to stuff into that device? Is there anything similar that I can use that has the same features? By features I mean easy soft-lock and hard-lock.

Thanks


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## nosliw (Jul 26, 2008)

negative?

oh, that's okay... figure 8 is just fine (even though according to some it will twist my rope until it burns in half during the first 3' of descent)


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## Ghillie (Jul 26, 2008)

It has been at least ten years since I have used an ATC....

But let me think.


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## Ghillie (Jul 26, 2008)

I didn't like the ATC. It put a stiff bend in the ropw when I used it and that seemed too hard on a static rope to me, I imagine it is alright on a dynamic rock-climbing rope though. I have not used true-blue so I have no hands-on experience with that rope.

Now that I have said that I don't like it, I am not saying don't use it. It is a light piece of equipment that would do you good as a back-up device to carry on your harness.

Do you rec-climb or work climb?

Have you ever used a friction hitch.. tautline or blake's hitch?


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## Ghillie (Jul 26, 2008)

How do you climb... SRT or double rope?

What do you use for ascent?

How high are you climbing?



nosliw said:


> negative?
> 
> oh, that's okay... figure 8 is just fine (even though according to some it will twist my rope until it burns in half during the first 3' of descent)



Yes, it will twist your rope but it can be managed. But do you want to be constantly tending your own rope or enjoying the climb? If you are distracted from what all is going on in the tree you are more likely to make a mistake.

Mistakes are best made at ground level than at height in a tree. Believe me on this. I have made them at height and a sudden gust of gravity can make a good day sh*tty in a hurry.

You have to look at all aspects of your technique and requirements of the tree you are climbing.

Give us more info and we might be able to help you more.

Good luck and be safe!

Fred


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## nosliw (Jul 27, 2008)

i'm just starting out, and am doing it for recreation. basically climbing rope at this stage, not interacting with the tree.

i'll be using the split-tail system, minus the pulley (i'll add it when REI gets some next week)

i'll just be footlocking up there, my friction hitch is a Prussik. the plan was to do that on the way up, let the hitch grab so i'm hanging, then hook up the figure-8 and descend. 

i'm climbing approximately 30ft until i feel more comfortable with the setup.

i was assuming the ATC would work as well on static, it may not. the trueblue is 1/2" so it's out of the question anyway.

i have not actually USED the friction hitch yet. i know it grabs well going up, but don't have any experience slowly letting it go to descend. my 'Tree Climber's Companion' says not to use just a friction hitch for descent. 

thanks for any and all help!


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## Ghillie (Jul 27, 2008)

nosliw said:


> i'm just starting out, and am doing it for recreation. basically climbing rope at this stage, not interacting with the tree.
> 
> i'll be using the split-tail system, minus the pulley (i'll add it when REI gets some next week) Check out some of AS sponsor's, Sherrill has a 110% price gaurantee.
> 
> ...



Good luck and be safe!

Fred


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## nosliw (Jul 27, 2008)

excellent. thanks a lot for the advice!

nobody around to help, but i will go buy a few more books. i plan on making a few runs up and down and testing different hitches and how they work for me.

thanks a million!


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## andrewspens (Jul 27, 2008)

*Try this one*

Have you tried the RAD system that Baileys sells? I was looking at their catalog and found that I happened to have everything in the kit. Okay, my acsenders are CMI's, but close enough. Using that style of set-up is really nice. It seems like you are practically running up the rope. Plus, the Grigri is so nice for control. When you want a break or find something to trim, you just let go. Let go on an 8 or your ATC, and it's all over.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=27920&catID=


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## nosliw (Jul 27, 2008)

andrewspens said:


> Have you tried the RAD system that Baileys sells? I was looking at their catalog and found that I happened to have everything in the kit. Okay, my acsenders are CMI's, but close enough. Using that style of set-up is really nice. It seems like you are practically running up the rope. Plus, the Grigri is so nice for control. When you want a break or find something to trim, you just let go. Let go on an 8 or your ATC, and it's all over.
> 
> http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=27920&catID=



oh that's pretty cool. i may have to get one of those 'ascenders' one of these days. thanks for the link

climbing went great today. really let me know how uncomfortable my harness was, though

i don't get rid of the friction hitch when i connect my 8, so even if i did completely let go i'd be caught.


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## Ghillie (Jul 27, 2008)

nosliw said:


> oh that's pretty cool. i may have to get one of those 'ascenders' one of these days. thanks for the link
> 
> climbing went great today. really let me know how uncomfortable my harness was, though
> 
> i don't get rid of the friction hitch when i connect my 8, so even if i did completely let go i'd be caught.



What kind of harness are you using? Most rock climbing harnesses are meant more for fall protection and lightweight than for hanging in.

Glad to hear that you are concious of keeping a safety online while re-rigging for descent.

Fred


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## nosliw (Jul 27, 2008)

Ghillie said:


> What kind of harness are you using? Most rock climbing harnesses are meant more for fall protection and lightweight than for hanging in.
> 
> Glad to hear that you are concious of keeping a safety online while re-rigging for descent.
> 
> Fred



oh no, i bought one for arborists. not super nice, though... a Petzel Navaho.

and i wish i hadn't skimped out. $160 bought me numb legs after 5 minutes in the tree. maybe i'm wearing it wrong, but it's pretty self explanatory- i'm not completely incompetent. you can't really tell what will be comfortable by just trying it on at a store. i stuck dish towels behind my thighs which helped.

this 1/2" rope twists way more with an 8 than a dynamic 11mm line. surprising, but not too bad for my uses. i can now see how it could be a problem with some of you pros in the trees all day.


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## Ghillie (Jul 28, 2008)

nosliw said:


> oh no, i bought one for arborists. not super nice, though... a Petzel Navaho.
> 
> and i wish i hadn't skimped out. $160 bought me numb legs after 5 minutes in the tree. maybe i'm wearing it wrong, but it's pretty self explanatory- i'm not completely incompetent. you can't really tell what will be comfortable by just trying it on at a store. i stuck dish towels behind my thighs which helped.
> 
> this 1/2" rope twists way more with an 8 than a dynamic 11mm line. surprising, but not too bad for my uses. i can now see how it could be a problem with some of you pros in the trees all day.



I have the navaho variobelt, it is pretty comfortable for me but I do not stay suspended by just the rope for very long. I usually at least have my feet up on a limb or the trunk. Try adjusting it so you bear more weight on your waist.

At least you didn't spend a lot of money to find out the harness was uncomfortable. Now you can choose one with your needs in mind.  

Something like the grigri wouldn't twist the line as much but I don't think the grigri will fit 1/2" line.  

Also, if you adjust the harness so that it is close to your center of balance, it will be more comfortable. I usually wear mine lower on my hips than most. You have to be carefull though that if you are incapacitated (sp) you might invert and slip out. If you are worried about this, I believe Petzl makes a chest harness attachment.

Always wear a helmet and be carefull.

Glad to hear climbing went well today.

Fred


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## nosliw (Jul 28, 2008)

Ghillie said:


> I have the navaho variobelt, it is pretty comfortable for me but I do not stay suspended by just the rope for very long. I usually at least have my feet up on a limb or the trunk. Try adjusting it so you bear more weight on your waist.



i'll try that today and see how it goes



Ghillie said:


> At least you didn't spend a lot of money to find out the harness was uncomfortable. Now you can choose one with your needs in mind.



no kidding, some of those harnesses are huge money. i'd like to make mine work, because the return policy is iffy on safety equipment ...



Ghillie said:


> Something like the grigri wouldn't twist the line as much but I don't think the grigri will fit 1/2" line.



seems as though i'm stuck with my 8 for this line, and that's okay. once i gain some experience and/or need a new line i'll go with an 11mm. can't get too far ahead of myself now  



Ghillie said:


> Also, if you adjust the harness so that it is close to your center of balance, it will be more comfortable. I usually wear mine lower on my hips than most. You have to be carefull though that if you are incapacitated (sp) you might invert and slip out. If you are worried about this, I believe Petzl makes a chest harness attachment.



they do make one. and i may get it if i can't get things more comfortable today. something like $60 iirc



Ghillie said:


> Always wear a helmet and be carefull.
> 
> Glad to hear climbing went well today.
> 
> Fred



thanks for all your help fred!


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## andrewspens (Jul 28, 2008)

*A grigri might work on 1/2" line*

I use mine with 11mm blaze, but I have tried it on 1/2" forestry pro. I got a short piece from Wesspur on a sale for making lanyards. It does work with a Grigri. I don't have any trueblue or similar, or I would give a try.


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## Ghillie (Jul 28, 2008)

andrewspens said:


> Have you tried the RAD system that Baileys sells? I was looking at their catalog and found that I happened to have everything in the kit. Okay, my acsenders are CMI's, but close enough. Using that style of set-up is really nice. It seems like you are practically running up the rope. Plus, the Grigri is so nice for control. When you want a break or find something to trim, you just let go. Let go on an 8 or your ATC, and it's all over.
> 
> http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=27920&catID=



Thanks for the tip, finally got a chance to really look at it. I think I can rig something like that with the current equipment I have.

I'll have to give it a try.

Thanks,

Fred


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## scottedward58 (Jun 24, 2009)

I got a grigri today but my new 11mm rope hasn't come yet so I tried it with some XTC 12strand I had lying around and it worked so I climbed with it and it worked as an ascender/descender but I don't think it would work as a belay device so that must be why they say it only works with 10-11mm rope


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## canopyboy (Jun 24, 2009)

Ok, I'm coming to this thread a bit late, but....

I've started using an ATC (not the guide model) for descending DRT. Works great and doesn't twist the rope like my figure 8. I use it on my Tachyon (11mm?) and that seems to be about as big as you can run through it. I've been playing around with it near the ground SRT trying to come up with an alternative to Kevin's F8 revolver system. I find that SRT I have trouble getting enough friction for my comfort and rely partially on the hitch. I'm thinking the guide or the XP would help with that. I agree with Ghillie that I haven't wanted to run my stiff HTP static rope through that little bend though. For that I do use the RADS sytem, like the link given for Bailey's. It's awesome, the only thing that might be better is the tree frog system, but I haven't tried that yet. If you have the grigri, you probably have everything else you need to rig it up Ghillie.

I have thought about trying one of these Kong Robot Descenders. It will work with 1/2" rope I think. And the price is right.

I started with a Navajo saddle and it never was that comfortable for long hangs. I can't say enough about my new tribe saddle though, and it really wasn't that expensive.


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