# need advice on stump grinder



## JP Services (Sep 16, 2010)

I just bought a vermeer SC 372 diesel , i like the machine
I have like 60
hrs on it what I,m finding out is that I,m getting big stumps to do.
I feel that I need a bigger machine , more HP this one has 34 
anyway found a morbark D76 track machine with a hydrostatic drive to the cutter wheel, which is the newer design that replaced the belt drive which had problems with the cv joints
I was all ready to buy it today and my cuzzin calls and told me he just talk with a guy who demoed one next to a another machine and it was super slow ( the morbark)
he said that the wheel was slow and morbark having trouble getting the HP to to the wheel
anyone know about this machine
Thanks


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## JP Services (Sep 16, 2010)

hey guys ...any feedback would helpful

thanks


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 16, 2010)

JP Services said:


> hey guys ...any feedback would helpful
> 
> thanks



Seems like the newer they are the slower they are, and more expensive. For big stumps, I love our old Vermeer 672, that's a stump grinder!
Jeff


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## pdqdl (Sep 16, 2010)

You need to acquire more patience and experience.

I have been using a 25hp grinder for the last 12 years, and I have yet to find a stump that it won't do. Naturally, it is not as fast as a 50 horsepower stump grinder, but it still does the job and it was paid for a long time ago.

Rayco 1625 Super Jr., single steer wheel.


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## pdqdl (Sep 16, 2010)

Every hydraulic drive comes with several advantages and disadvantages.

1. They waste a lot of horsepower. There is lots of friction tied up in pumping all that oil around, so a larger engine is required to do the same amount of work that an all-mechanical drive can perform. _More $_
2. They generate a lot of extra heat. All that friction is translated into heat surrounding the machine. This requires extra cooling efforts for both the engine and the oil. _More $_
3. You get a great deal more versatility, and a hydraulic drive is generally much more reliable than any belt or shaft drive. _Lower operating cost$ _
4. A hydraulic drive is generally much safer in a shock loading environment because force delivered to the driveline can be instantly diverted with a pressure relief valve. This will usually translate into lower maintenance costs and fewer on-the-job repairs. _Lower operating cost$_ 
5. There are quite a few more expensive components involved with using a hydraulic drive, so anything with a hydraulic drive tends to be more expensive than a mechanical or belt drive of similar capacity. _More $_

Bottom line: hydraulic drive is more expensive and heavier to build, so they are often more difficult to sell to the customer that would benefit from a more reliable machine.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 16, 2010)

Good post!
Jeff


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## JP Services (Sep 16, 2010)

I'm the kind of guy who loves equipment, so that is kind of leading me into a bigger machine
Plus after going down to Richmond to to buy a new truck ( 97 dodge cummins) off a tree guy who has been in the tree biz for over 15 yrs , he tells me more HP is always better
check this stump out copper beach took me like 6hrs to do 
I know part of it is my inexperience because I just kept getting lost in that thing.
I also know that if the machine had more swing like 72" compared to my SC372 with only 40"
D*^"N
I just spent 20 mins trying to attach a photo from iphoto so you could see
anyway, it was like 6" dia. by the time I did the root flare it was about 14-15 foot


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## JP Services (Sep 16, 2010)

haha forgot to end my sentence...
got so involved with trying to put picture of the stump in 
I also know that if the machine had more swing like 72" compared to my SC372 with only 40" it would of been a lot faster


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## mckeetree (Sep 16, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> Rayco 1625 Super Jr., single steer wheel.



I wouldn't have one up my ass if I had room for Utah. A 20 HP walk behind is faster.


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## pdqdl (Sep 17, 2010)

That is highly doubtful. I suspect that you got ahold of a clinker, wherever you got that opinion from. When it comes to stump grinding, it all boils down to horsepower and how sharp your teeth are. Poor controls will certainly slow you down, though.


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## arbor pro (Sep 17, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> That is highly doubtful. I suspect that you got ahold of a clinker, wherever you got that opinion from. When it comes to stump grinding, it all boils down to horsepower and how sharp your teeth are. Poor controls will certainly slow you down, though.



JP Services - do you still have the autosweep feature turned on? I used to think guys were crazy to disable the autosweep feature because it was there to prevent excess wear on the machine. It really makes a big difference to disable the autosweep and use the machine to its fullest ability. The extra wear and tear on the machine will be more than compensated for in increased productivity...2-3x more productive.

The only time I'll plug the autosweep back in is if my employee is running the machine. He's still pretty green at it and doesn't have a feel for the controls yet. It takes him 3x longer than me to grind a stump though. Part of that is operator and part of that is the auto'sleep' module.


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## mckeetree (Sep 17, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> That is highly doubtful. I suspect that you got ahold of a clinker, wherever you got that opinion from. When it comes to stump grinding, it all boils down to horsepower and how sharp your teeth are. Poor controls will certainly slow you down, though.



Stop doubting. It was a brand new machine. They just don't have enough power for anything. Vermeer 252 is about the same deal to me.


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## arbor pro (Sep 17, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> Stop doubting. It was a brand new machine. They just don't have enough power for anything. Vermeer 252 is about the same deal to me.



I'll be the first to admit that my 65hp diesel 665a grinder could take out a stump in 1/3 of the time my 252 could. That said, the 665a only got used a few times a year because it was much more convenient to use the 252 which I could haul on a truck or trailer with additional equipment. I just sold the 665a in favor of keeping the 252.

Considering it's size, maneuverability and low purchase price, operating cost and maintenance cost, I think the 252 is one hell of a machine. The right teeth definitely make a difference. You can throw away the old standard teeth - they just don't compare to the newer styles as far as productivity and ease of maintenance goes.


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## mckeetree (Sep 17, 2010)

arbor pro said:


> I think the 252 is one hell of a machine.



Well I don't. But I guess it is all in perspective. Years ago I had a girlfriend that thought her ex boyfriend could really eat you know what until she met me and then she said looking back he barely knew where the damn thing was.


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## JP Services (Sep 18, 2010)

I wouldn't have one up my ass if I had room for Utah. A 20 HP walk behind is faster.
MCKEETREE: what do you mean by this statement?
I know I'm a little slow , but you gotta break this one down for me .
thanks


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## JP Services (Sep 18, 2010)

Arbor pro: Yes only by mistake though
I forgot to take the machine out of high gear , so as i was grinding and i'm like wow this thing seems faster.
Well it was much faster! That is when I saw it was not in auto sweep mode.
Working yesterday and no auto sweep all day....and what a difference, big difference!
But with that said I"d still like to take that big old 72" swing (cut). I know its not a must, but if I can get something used at a good price....well you know what I'm saying.
That is why I'm looking for some feedback on that specific machine.
The D76 Morbark track machine.
I was told that a guy had one side by side to , I think a caralton but not a 100% sure on the caralton. He said the D76 could not keep up with the other machine and the other machine needed new teeth!! He said the D76 moved around good but the cutter wheel was a dog.
But what the hell do I know
Thanks for all this great feedback guys


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## mckeetree (Sep 18, 2010)

JP Services said:


> I wouldn't have one up my ass if I had room for Utah.
> MCKEETREE: what do you mean by this statement?
> I know I'm a little slow , but you gotta break this one down for me .
> thanks



Ha. That is an old timers saying meaning they have the money to buy it and plenty of room to store it but have no use for it.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 18, 2010)

This is over $65k and slow. Took 40 minutes. A 672 would take about 12 minutes. 
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 18, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> This is over $65k and slow. Took 40 minutes. A 672 would take about 12 minutes.
> Jeff



Another pic.
Jeff


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## JP Services (Sep 18, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> This is over $65k and slow. Took 40 minutes. A 672 would take about 12 minutes.
> Jeff



Thanks for all this great info!
Jeff what type of machine is that? D76?
If so then that would confirm what I was told. 
If that the case .... Damn I'm a lucky dude. 
You know I was on my way to start my 300 mile road trip to buy the D76 when I got the call from my cousin at 6:50 am. 
He says that the D76 was super slow and did I aready buy it ...... Like I said I'm a lucky guy


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 18, 2010)

JP Services said:


> Thanks for all this great info!
> Jeff what type of machine is that? D76?
> If so then that would confirm what I was told.
> If that the case .... Damn I'm a lucky dude.
> ...



No wait! You gotta see it!!! Super cool radio remote!! Wow, look where it can go!. Ha! It does have alot of cool features, but not if you are into production unless you bid it in.
Jeff


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## JP Services (Sep 18, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> Ha. That is an old timers saying meaning they have the money to buy it and plenty of room to store it but have no use for it.


ha ha ... is it a secrete or are you going to tell me the make of the machine?
:


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## mckeetree (Sep 18, 2010)

JP Services said:


> ha ha ... is it a secrete or are you going to tell me the make of the machine?
> :



A Rayco 1625 or a Vermeer 252 either one.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 18, 2010)

Oh, 2900xp
Jeff


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## JP Services (Sep 18, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Oh, 2900xp
> Jeff



oh ,, now I got it a bandit
I think I am going to stay away from the Bandit and the morbark track machines.going to start to research the vermeer annd the caralton tracks machines with expandable tracks
let me know what you think guys
thanks


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## sgreanbeans (Sep 23, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> You need to acquire more patience and experience.


:agree2:
I have seen a small Carlton grind a massive stump with no issues, a very experienced operator can do amazing things with very little.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 23, 2010)

Lots of bells and whistles but slow and over 60k.
Jeff


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## arbor pro (Sep 23, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> :agree2:
> ...a very experienced operator can do amazing things with very little.



 chuckle, chuckle


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## gorman (Sep 23, 2010)

I got a little 20 hp carlton self propelled. had engine rebuilt 2x... Blew another oil control ring... kept adding oil... now losing compression... don't have the moola for another machine so I gotta bite the bullet and put a new 27hp engine on it. I've found that if you take the time to sharpen the teeth yourself (providing you aren't running green teeth) you can get alot more done if you just keep up on it. gonna look into re-tipping my spare set so I don't have to keep buying new teeth when I run out of carbide. 

Anyone else send out their teeth for retipping??


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## pdqdl (Sep 23, 2010)

Re-tipping is just brazing on new tips, you can do that yourself, but you need just the right brazing flux to get the carbide to stick.

Don't sharpen yourself, it isn't worth the problems. In addition to the time spent grinding, the carbide dust is very dangerous. It causes long term health problems, particularly in your lungs. Bad stuff, I quit sharpening my own because of the risks. _This should say something, 'cause there isn't much that I am afraid of.
_

http://nj.gov/health/eoh/survweb/wr...v/health/eoh/survweb/wra/documents/tc_bro.pdf


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 23, 2010)

Chew them up, spit them out , and buy more. Makes the world go round.
Jeff


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## gorman (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm not totally stupid about it. Knowing the health risks I don a respirator and have a shop vac running with a micron filter the whole time. I just destroy teeth with this new england rocky soil. I kinda envy outfits around the grain belt who grind stumps. I hear in those parts of the country you can dig three feet in topsoil and rarely encounter a stone.


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## pdqdl (Sep 25, 2010)

We make up for it by filling all the old trees with concrete prior to cutting them down.


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