# I'm Worried About This.......372XP Bearing Issues



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

I've got a 2011 Husqvarna 372XP here with bad main bearings.

I see that they have gone to plastic cages. :msp_thumbdn:

















Is this something anyone else is seeing? 

Jon's putting some aftermarket bearings in it so that it'll be better than new??????


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 8, 2013)

Wouldn't think the plastic would hold up under the high RPM's and heat.:msp_ohmy:Everyones tryin to build it cheaper.


----------



## moody (Mar 8, 2013)

Oddly enough most plastics do better under heat than metal. They dont warp and they're still very sturdy. It's not a weight saver just a fact that composites are getting used more for their qualities. If we all had our way there wouldn't be much plastic in the saw at all. Truth is bearings get hot and when that happens metal tends to stretch or bend cools down and locks up or fails under use. I've done aircraft grade composite repairs with polymers. If they trust peoples lives with it I'll give it a shot in my saw regardless of brand.


----------



## LowVolt (Mar 8, 2013)

Going from metal to plastic is not good. I am in the audio electronics industry and some of our volume controls went from metal shafts to plastic ones and they just do not hold up.

:msp_thumbdn:


----------



## LowVolt (Mar 8, 2013)

moody said:


> Oddly enough most plastics do better under heat than metal. They dont warp and they're still very sturdy. It's not a weight saver just a fact that composites are getting used more for their qualities. If we all had our way there wouldn't be much plastic in the saw at all. Truth is bearings get hot and when that happens metal tends to stretch or bend cools down and locks up or fails under use. I've done aircraft grade composite repairs with polymers. If they trust peoples lives with it I'll give it a shot in my saw regardless of brand.



I see your point but he has a 2 year old saw with bad ones. 

Were the plastic cages the culprit?


----------



## REJ2 (Mar 8, 2013)

I used to be able to buy rim sprocket bearings with metal cages for my 365 and 372, now all i get when i order them is the plastic cage ones. Why would they use plastic on a crankshaft bearing?


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

Stihl has been using plastic cages for years.......


----------



## moody (Mar 8, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> Going from metal to plastic is not good. I am in the audio electronics industry and some of our volume controls went from metal shafts to plastic ones and they just do not hold up.
> 
> :msp_thumbdn:



Completely different type of compositie in this case. But I agree the electronics grade plastic tends to be to be poor quality. I'll see if I cant get some information on the type of polymer these cages are made out of and I'll report back.


----------



## DSS (Mar 8, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> I see your point but he has a 2 year old saw with bad ones.
> 
> 
> 
> Were the plastic cages the culprit?




I've got 40 year old saws with metal cage bearings that I know are original. 

I wonder.


----------



## moody (Mar 8, 2013)

LowVolt said:


> I see your point but he has a 2 year old saw with bad ones.
> 
> Were the plastic cages the culprit?



I'd bet an oil cap off my 023 the cages aren't the problem.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Mar 8, 2013)

Randy I thought it had been pointed out that the new saws like 562 555 550 545 had plastic cages too?


----------



## origionalrebel (Mar 8, 2013)

prolly got somthin to do with that sideways balance thingy on the husky:biggrin:


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Randy I thought it had been pointed out that the new saws like 562 555 550 545 had plastic cages too?



They sure do Kevin. 

Here's why I brought this up......I've heard that these bottom ends ain't holding up when modded. I've built a few that seem to be and Wiggs has done a few, including two that are used in production logging. I've heard nothing negative about any of those builds. Are we just lucky or what?

As they say "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" so lets see what sort of information this little thread shakes out.


----------



## magictoad (Mar 8, 2013)

moody said:


> Completely different type of compositie in this case. But I agree the electronics grade plastic tends to be to be poor quality. I'll see if I cant get some information on the type of polymer these cages are made out of and I'll report back.




POLYETHERETHERKETONE:msp_ohmy: or just PEEK


----------



## moody (Mar 8, 2013)

Ok did some quick searching around they appear to be a monomer type polymer. No worries this means it's a thermosetting polymer once it's molded the process can't be reversed. It's very similart to the resin's I used to do repairs in the sense that once it's been cured the shape can only be changed by a grinder. The mag case would catch fire before the bearing cages.


----------



## Jacob J. (Mar 8, 2013)

I rebuilt a 2010 X-torq model saw last month with the same issue. The plastic cages on both sides failed. The saw itself had about 80 hours run time according to the owner. There was little carbon build-up in the top end and it was mint otherwise.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> I rebuilt a 2010 X-torq model saw last month with the same issue. The plastic cages on both sides failed. The saw itself had about 80 hours run time according to the owner. There was little carbon build-up in the top end and it was mint otherwise.



This saw is low hour too JJ.


----------



## moody (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> This saw is low hour too JJ.



I wonder if it's not something to do with poor QC at the plant and poor mold supervision?


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

moody said:


> I wonder if it's not something to do with poor QC at the plant and poor mold supervision?



I'm not calling it anything yet.........still waiting to hear from more guys that have seen these saws in action in the woods or with bearing issues on their benches. 

I'm not above splitting a brand new saw and replacing the bearings with Nachi Bearings.


----------



## moody (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm not calling it anything yet.........still waiting to hear from more guys that have seen these saws in action in the woods or with bearing issues on their benches.
> 
> I'm not above splitting a brand new saw and replacing the bearings with Nachi Bearings.



Sounds like something my grandpa would say. When in doubt swap it out.


----------



## magictoad (Mar 8, 2013)

PEEK has been used in high speed motor components for years with no problems.

Monomer's are just a component of a polymer


----------



## LowVolt (Mar 8, 2013)

We got some good info going here......


----------



## moody (Mar 8, 2013)

magictoad said:


> PEEK has been used in high speed motor components for years with no problems.
> 
> Monomer's are just a component of a polymer



It's a molecule lay out is all.


----------



## magictoad (Mar 8, 2013)

moody said:


> It's a molecule lay out is all.


 ?????????????


----------



## FATGUY (Mar 8, 2013)

aren't the cages in small end rod bearings plastic too?


----------



## magictoad (Mar 8, 2013)

Take a look at SKF bearing cage construction


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

FATGUY said:


> aren't the cages in small end rod bearings plastic too?



None that I've seen Nik. Clutch bearings......yes.


----------



## moody (Mar 8, 2013)

magictoad said:


> ?????????????



A monomer is a complex structure of molecules that are the building blocks of thermo polymers. The thermosetting polymers like what we're talking about require high densiity layouts and chemical bonds, increased heat and pressure to form.


----------



## Jacob J. (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm not calling it anything yet.........still waiting to hear from more guys that have seen these saws in action in the woods or with bearing issues on their benches.
> 
> I'm not above splitting a brand new saw and replacing the bearings with Nachi Bearings.



You better stock up then, because it's only getting worse from here...


----------



## magictoad (Mar 8, 2013)

moody said:


> A monomer is a complex structure of molecules that are the building blocks of thermo polymers. The thermosetting polymers like what we're talking about require high densiity layouts and chemical bonds, increased heat and pressure to form.



The type of polymer is PEEK


----------



## moody (Mar 8, 2013)

magictoad said:


> The type of polymer is PEEK



I'm aware of this but PEEK is a Thermosetting polymer.


----------



## FATGUY (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> None that I've seen Nik. Clutch bearings......yes.



I stand corrected, just went to look at one. I think I need to start drinking again....:yoyo:


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

FATGUY said:


> I stand corrected, just went to look at one. I think I need to start drinking again....:yoyo:



That may be ok for you.....but if I start drinking again you'll be able to watch me disintegrate..... :msp_ohmy:


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Mar 8, 2013)

I know when I was splitting the poulans and 372's the poulan took the same bearing and ordered under poulan part number for about 1/4 of the cost.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> I know when I was splitting the poulans and 372's the poulan took the same bearing and ordered under poulan part number for about 1/4 of the cost.



I just use Nachi Bearings directly from a bearing supply. They are unsealed and C3 rated. Made in Japan.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> That may be ok for you.....but if I start drinking again you'll be able to *watch me disintegrate*..... :msp_ohmy:


Been watching that for over three years now.:msp_tongue:


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I just use Nachi Bearings directly from a bearing supply. They are unsealed and C3 rated. Made in Japan.



Info wasn't meant for you oh wise one mastermind . Just throwing others a bone. :msp_razz:


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've got a 2011 Husqvarna 372XP here with bad main bearings.
> 
> I see that they have gone to plastic cages. :msp_thumbdn:
> 
> ...


----------



## mweba (Mar 8, 2013)

My only input on the subject...every set of bearing I've replaced with plastic cages, the P&C did not have to be replaced. Can't say that for my personal 372 with metal cages.


I use SKF with metal cages for replacement, right or wrong.

MS290310390 saws have had plastic for as long as I know and no saw gets abused more IMHO


----------



## MCW (Mar 8, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> I rebuilt a 2010 X-torq model saw last month with the same issue. The plastic cages on both sides failed. The saw itself had about 80 hours run time according to the owner. There was little carbon build-up in the top end and it was mint otherwise.



Do you think it may have been a problem with a fuel/oil ratio and heat?
I'm no saw builder but the only problem I've ever struck with plastic cages is sticking a screw through them accidentally when pulling crank seals 
I've got an absolutely hammered 026 here and basically everything on it had been destroyed APART from the plastic bearing cages 

My thoughts would be that if it is the bearing cages failing then it's not so much a fault of the plastic/polymer but the initial quality of the bearings themselves.


----------



## tdi-rick (Mar 8, 2013)

Back when i was young and silly in the mid/late eighties I raced karts and some of those reed and rotary engines were good for over 20,000RPM at the end of a straight.
That'd be the same as pulling 20,000RPM in the cut.

My engine builder used FAG bearings for the mains and they used a phenolic/resin/plastic cage (TVH ??) and they were C4's (and we used Thompson little ends)

[edit]Just did some digging and AFAICT it was polyamide/nylon 6.6 as the cage material.

If it can take 20-22,000RPM in an air cooled Parilla pushing close to 30HP out of 100cc it'd be fine in a saw.


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 8, 2013)

Randy,

How did the bearings fail? Too much radial play? If so, how much play did they have? It looks like the ball retainers are still intact, so, I don't think they caused the failure. 

I wonder if the bearings are being damaged when they are being installed? Pressing on the outer race to put the inner race on the crank or pressing on the inner to press the outer can't do it any favors! 

Do you feel like taking them apart and checking the bearing surfaces?

I've heard some guys say that they'd rather have a plastic cage fail and get munched through the engine rather than a steel one.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> Been watching that for over three years now.:msp_tongue:





manyhobies said:


> Randy,
> 
> How did the bearings fail? Too much radial play? If so, how much play did they have? It looks like the ball retainers are still intact, so, I don't think they caused the failure.
> 
> ...



I agree with that. 1000%

Look close.......the cage is broken allowing the ball to move......


----------



## zogger (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> They sure do Kevin.
> 
> Here's why I brought this up......I've heard that these bottom ends ain't holding up when modded. I've built a few that seem to be and Wiggs has done a few, including two that are used in production logging. I've heard nothing negative about any of those builds. Are we just lucky or what?
> 
> As they say "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" so lets see what sort of information this little thread shakes out.




I have no direct experience with those, but one would guess that husky does destructive testing on these things.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

zogger said:


> I have no direct experience with those, but one would guess that husky does destructive testing on these things.



Jon is real good at bust stuff, they could just let him run one for a couple of hours.


----------



## Chris-PA (Mar 8, 2013)

I'm kind of agnostic on polymer parts - all materials have strengths and weaknesses and nothing really lasts forever. I tend to prefer metal for structural parts, but then again I've seen some plastic parts that have held up amazingly well. Heat may not be the issue, but what about chemical resistance? I hate to bring up the specter of the ethanol thing again!


----------



## chadihman (Mar 8, 2013)

I have a 372 that has bad crank bearings. It will be on my bench next week. Is this a 372 thing.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Mar 8, 2013)

Out of my poulan 425, top end was good to go :msp_thumbup:


----------



## RiverRat2 (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Stihl has been using plastic cages for years.......



& Stuff!!!!:hmm3grin2orange:



mweba said:


> My only input on the subject...every set of bearing I've replaced with plastic cages, the P&C did not have to be replaced. Can't say that for my personal 372 with metal cages.
> 
> 
> I use SKF with metal cages for replacement, right or wrong.
> ...



I'll drink to that!!!


----------



## Termite (Mar 8, 2013)

magictoad said:


> PEEK has been used in high speed motor components for years with no problems.
> 
> Monomer's are just a component of a polymer



Well I am no chemist but I did work maintenance in a chemical plant for 23 years. We made plastic and plastic additives from monomers. Methyl methacrylate is the main monomer used in making plastic along with many others Butalacrylate, ethelacryate, butadiene and many others. The thing about monomers is they are always trying to turn into polymers. It is a chemical reaction that changes all monomers to polymers. The reaction builds heat and pressure creating the potential for explosions, which we had on occasion. All finished plastic products are polymers, the reaction has been completed.


----------



## RiverRat2 (Mar 8, 2013)

Termite said:


> Well I am no chemist but I did work maintenance in a chemical plant for 23 years. We made plastic and plastic additives from monomers. Methyl methacrylate is the main monomer used in making plastic along with many others Butalacrylate, ethelacryate, butadiene and many others. The thing about monomers is they are always trying to turn into polymers. It is a chemical reaction that changes all monomers to polymers. The reaction builds heat and pressure creating the potential for explosions, which we had on occasion. All finished plastic products are polymers, the reaction has been completed.



Get U some Cuz!!!!

I'm bettin U stayed In a Holiday Inn Express last night!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

Termite said:


> Well I am no chemist but I did work maintenance in a chemical plant for 23 years. We made plastic and plastic additives from monomers. Methyl methacrylate is the main monomer used in making plastic along with many others Butalacrylate, ethelacryate, butadiene and many others. The thing about monomers is they are always trying to turn into polymers. It is a chemical reaction that changes all monomers to polymers. The reaction builds heat and pressure creating the potential for explosions, which we had on occasion. All finished plastic products are polymers, the reaction has been completed.



I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## RiverRat2 (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :msp_thumbup:



No Way!!!


----------



## Termite (Mar 8, 2013)

chadihman said:


> I have a 372 that has bad crank bearings. It will be on my bench next week. Is this a 372 thing.



I forget which thread it was in but I remember reading about how bullet proof the 372 was and all the problems 575's and 576's had. I remember a Husky dealer from Canada saying 372's were having bottom end problems and they were sending them back across the pond for evaluation. Anyone else remember that?


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

RiverRat2 said:


> No Way!!!



Great minds and all..... :msp_tongue:


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 8, 2013)

Looking closer! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Termite (Mar 8, 2013)

RiverRat2 said:


> Get U some Cuz!!!!
> 
> I'm bettin U stayed In a Holiday Inn Express last night!!!



I was going to start out with the Holiday Inn bit but changed my mind.


----------



## RiverRat2 (Mar 8, 2013)

Termite said:


> I was going to start out with the Holiday Inn bit but changed my mind.



I am really glad to hear that, Ya might of run into that gun totin Chimp!!!


----------



## stihlbro (Mar 8, 2013)

Sawtroll will be here shortly to get this straightened out.:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## hamish (Mar 8, 2013)

Pretty much a non issue, rated bearings fail due to either a bad batch on the assembly line for which the bar code would have already picked up on a 2011 built saw a long time ago. 

Primary issues mechanical failure of another component, overspeeding, or a combination of operator issues.

As Mitch mentioned how many million 290/390's are out there getting beat to death daily with them cheap no good plastic caged bearings?


Guess I should have got the ex wife a metal dildo, might have lasted her longer.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

hamish said:


> Pretty much a non issue, rated bearings fail due to either a bad batch on the assembly line for which the bar code would have already picked up on a 2011 built saw a long time ago.
> 
> Primary issues mechanical failure of another component, overspeeding, or a combination of operator issues.
> 
> ...



Hold up there Jocko. 

I'm asking if people have seen more failures since they changed to plastic cages.......I could give a damn less what sort of dildo you prefer.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Mar 8, 2013)

stihlbro said:


> Sawtroll will be here shortly to get this straightened out.:biggrinbounce2:



He will just tell us how the plastic is saving weight and has no bearing on the side way balance.


----------



## RiverRat2 (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Hold up there Jocko.
> 
> I'm asking if people have seen more failures since they changed to plastic cages.......I could give a damn less what sort of dildo you prefer.



I hate when that happens!!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> He will just tell us how the *plastic is saving weight and has no bearing* on the side way balance.



I see what you did there......


----------



## young (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Hold up there Jocko.
> 
> I'm asking if people have seen more failures since they changed to plastic cages.......I could give a damn less what sort of dildo you prefer.



whos Jocko and what have you done with his dildo?!?!?!


btw you get take apart the other 359 yet?


----------



## hamish (Mar 8, 2013)

hahah!

Actually have seen less failures, thus far, with low hour saws. Have yet to have a bearing failure on a plastic caged saw in the past 4 years, according to my notes.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

young said:


> whos Jocko and what have you done with his dildo?!?!?!
> 
> 
> btw you get take apart the other 359 yet?



I did.



hamish said:


> hahah!
> 
> Actually have seen less failures, thus far, with low hour saws. Have yet to have a bearing failure on a plastic caged saw in the past 4 years, according to my notes.



Thanks. I'm building more and more of these....some with strato top ends and some with old school top ends and would like to know if I should split the cases and swap the bearings to prevent future failures. 

Thanks for checking your notes.


----------



## thomas1 (Mar 8, 2013)

Have you tried ceramic bearings? I've heard they can really help get that last bit of performance out of a saw.


----------



## stihlbro (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've got a 2011 Husqvarna 372XP here with bad main bearings.
> 
> I see that they have gone to plastic cages. :msp_thumbdn:
> 
> ...



Randy, the flywheel side bearing looks dry. And the dark color below on the case looks to be charred oil. Definite sign of heat.
The pto side I see a shiney mark in case from the 4 to 6 o'clock position. Is that rub marks? Like from bearing cage coming apart?


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Mar 8, 2013)

hamish said:


> hahah!
> 
> Actually have seen less failures, thus far, with low hour saws. Have yet to have a bearing failure on a plastic caged saw in the past 4 years, according to my notes.



Thanks for the info. :cool2:


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

stihlbro said:


> Randy, the flywheel side bearing looks dry. And the dark color below on the case looks to be charred oil. Definite sign of heat.
> The pto side I see a shiney mark in case from the 4 to 6 o'clock position. Is that rub marks? Like from bearing cage coming apart?



I would take another look at it Joey.......but its running again already. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## w8ye (Mar 8, 2013)

I've built model airplanes since the early 50's. In turn I have worked on a lot of small engines.

In more recent years (30 or so) The small, higher performance, more expensive, nitro/alcohol engines, have bearings with a Polymide or plastic cage. It is not uncommon in the little two stroke glow fuel engines to loose the rear bearing cage if you do a lot of high rpm running. 

*With the steel cage, the metal particles go up through the engine and ruin everything. 

With the non metallic cages, the most harm it does is round off the edges of the rings. 

You will loose one type cage about as fast as the other.*

Sometimes, you will loose a bearing cage within a 10 minute run. They run in the 13,000 - 15,000 rpm range.

When the cage is gone, the balls will all get on one side of the bearing and lock the engine up when the crank throw starts hitting the case. So you will get a sudden stop and sometimes the prop spins off and is gone.

Some, all out, racing engines use full complement bearings that are all balls and no cage.

The larger model engines are gasoline and usually reed valve with the extra boost intake port in the back. They go through bearings about the same as a chain saw but run in the 6,000 - 7,000 rpm range.


----------



## Rounder (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm not calling it anything yet.........still waiting to hear from more guys that have seen these saws in action in the woods or with bearing issues on their benches.
> 
> I'm not above splitting a brand new saw and replacing the bearings with Nachi Bearings.



I've got over 6 months on a ported 2172....no issues yet. The guys I deal with have done quite a few XT/2172's for other fallers, and haven't had this issue. Not every saw/bearing that comes off the line is perfect though....I've had a couple duds straight from the big 2's factories over the years...#### happens.


----------



## stihlbro (Mar 8, 2013)

Well shucks!


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

stihlbro said:


> Randy, the flywheel side bearing looks dry. And the dark color below on the case looks to be charred oil. Definite sign of heat.
> The pto side I see a shiney mark in case from the 4 to 6 o'clock position. Is that rub marks? Like from bearing cage coming apart?





Mastermind said:


> I would take another look at it Joey.......but its running again already. :msp_thumbup:





stihlbro said:


> Well shucks!



Jon took a few pics Joey......what we were seeing before was just glare. 






He took this to prove I really work.... :msp_tongue:


----------



## young (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> ...
> 
> He took this to prove I really work.... :msp_tongue:



Photoshopped. terrible one at that.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

young said:


> Photoshopped. terrible one at that.



If I was gonna Photoshop my pic I would slim my fat ass down a bit.


----------



## hamish (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> If I was gonna Photoshop my pic I would slim my fat ass down a bit.



Add more hair, and a few bikini clad Swedish women to distract the fact that your up and down wrench is missing from the bench.


----------



## Justsaws (Mar 8, 2013)

Have seen 3 out of a batch of 20 saws with bad mains in less than 6 months from in service date. Seems to be the luck of the draw. P/C and crank are still good in all three.

Saw an additional one that is sparkley new that supposedly failed after the out of box tune and the end of the day, thinking it was shelf parked in early Feb.

Insides of the saws look great, would not know anything was wrong until you looked at the bearings, or if it was back together tried to start it.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> If I was gonna Photoshop my pic I would slim my fat ass down a bit.


Is that yer grey headed old self? I thought you were a young dude, Ya old goat.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> Is that yer grey headed old self? I thought you were a young dude, Ya old goat.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



That's me Rick.......I ain't no spring chicken, that's for sure.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

Justsaws said:


> Have seen 3 out of a batch of 20 saws with bad mains in less than 6 months from in service date. *Seems to be the luck of the draw. * P/C and crank are still good in all three.
> 
> Saw an additional one that is sparkley new that supposedly failed after the out of box tune and the end of the day, thinking it was shelf parked in early Feb.
> 
> Insides of the saws look great, would not know anything was wrong until you looked at the bearings, or if it was back together tried to start it.



I spoke with Spike today.......he said about the same. It's not a real issue in his mind either. 

I'll be doing a new 372 with a ported XPW top end soon.....I'll split the case and use Nachi bearings......just to be sure.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> That's me Rick.......I ain't no spring chicken, that's for sure.


Just jokin with ya, Nothin wrong with grey hair. mine is too. just means were more mature eh?:msp_thumbsup:


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 8, 2013)

Also i might add that you look NOTHING like yer first avatar.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Mar 8, 2013)

> He took this to prove I really work....



:chatter:


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> Also i might add that you look NOTHING like yer first avatar.:hmm3grin2orange:



Unless I bend over. :msp_ohmy:


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

Adirondackstihl said:


> :chatter:



What kind of pie is that? :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Unless I bend over. :msp_ohmy:


You sayin it's behind those overalls?


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> What kind of pie is that? :hmm3grin2orange:



A cheesecake pie :cool2:


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

stihl sawing said:


> You sayin it's behind those overalls?



I ain't sayin nothing else.....I've said too much already.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 8, 2013)

Adirondackstihl said:


> A cheesecake pie :cool2:



Damn.....that sounds great. 

Now I'm hungry.


----------



## deepsouth (Mar 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> He took this to prove I really work.... :msp_tongue:



Oh look, Papa Smurf now plays chainsaws  :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Andyshine77 (Mar 9, 2013)

This is what I was told years ago about the 372. This came from a saw builder that was on AS at one time. Early on loggers we're using 372's as small saws bumping limbs at WOT running 50:1 mix. They didn't last too long in this application, from what I was told. Running more oil, lower rpm's and bearing changes alleviated the issue, but never completely solved the problem in high rpm light load applications. 

For the most part the 372 is as solid as anything out there, but I have a few rules when in comes to porting the 372, because of the past bearing problems.. First off, and I've said this before, When it comes to a true eight hour a day work saw, keep compression down!! like 175psi or less. Most 372's I've seen have 155psi out of the box. I haven't seen big gains with super high compression in the 372 anyway. Sure if you want to cut cookies or showoff have at it. Oil doesn't just lubricate, it also acts as a cushion and a seal, so run plenty of it. 

No I really don't like seeing plastic in bearings myself, however I've seen plastic used in some pretty heavy duty applications without issue. 

Andre.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 9, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> This is what I was told years ago about the 372. This came from a saw builder that was on AS at one time. Early on loggers we're using 372's as small saws bumping limbs at WOT running 50:1 mix. They didn't last too long in this application, from what I was told. Running more oil, lower rpm's and bearing changes alleviated the issue, but never completely solved the problem in high rpm light load applications.
> 
> For the most part the 372 is as solid as anything out there, but I have a few rules when in comes to porting the 372, because of the past bearing problems.. First off, and I've said this before, When it comes to a true eight hour a day work saw, keep compression down!! like 175psi or less. Most 372's I've seen have 155psi out of the box. I haven't seen big gains with super high compression in the 372 anyway. Sure if you want to cut cookies or showoff have at it. Oil doesn't just lubricate, it also acts as a cushion and a seal, so run plenty of it.
> 
> ...



Great post and spot on......

My 372 blows 205 BTW.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Mar 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Great post and spot on......
> 
> My 372 blows 205 BTW.



Well it should run real good!!!! For a while.


----------



## mweba (Mar 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> My 372 blows BTW.



O man that sucks


----------



## Trx250r180 (Mar 9, 2013)

Was this saw running a black coil ?


----------



## thomas1 (Mar 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> That's me Rick.......I ain't no spring chicken, that's for sure.



Just got the legs of one?


----------



## RiverRat2 (Mar 9, 2013)

w8ye said:


> I've built model airplanes since the early 50's. In turn I have worked on a lot of small engines.
> 
> In more recent years (30 or so) The small, higher performance, more expensive, nitro/alcohol engines, have bearings with a Polymide or plastic cage. It is not uncommon in the little two stroke glow fuel engines to loose the rear bearing cage if you do a lot of high rpm running.
> 
> ...



Dont tell us,,, Holiday Inn Express?????


----------



## XSKIER (Mar 9, 2013)

Does anyone ever check the "true" of these chainsaw crankshafts? I always read that "the crank is fine" but never see it quantified as .001" runout or less. I'll bet that .002" or .003" crankshaft runout in a C3 fit bearing, at 10,500 rpm (in the cut) will overheat the bearing balls and cook the locators, regardless of composition, in a short amount of time. Looser fit C4 bearings are more tolerant to out of tolerances and thermal expansion. Or, just could be that the bearings were side loaded in the case to crank fit and made the heat that way.


----------



## timmcat (Mar 9, 2013)

I check any I take out of the cases for repair in the lathe between dead centers, both ends of the crank have center holes so its pretty easy. Finding a crank with .003 runout isn't uncommon, a few precision taps with a brass hammer can usually get one within .001. The Polaris sled service manual even has a procedure for truing on the 2 and three cylinder cranks, all with a brass hammer and a holding fixture.


----------



## excess650 (Mar 9, 2013)

deepsouth said:


> Oh look, Papa Smurf now poses with chainsaws  :hmm3grin2orange:



fixed that fer ya!


----------



## XSKIER (Mar 9, 2013)

timmcat said:


> I check any I take out of the cases for repair in the lathe between dead centers, both ends of the crank have center holes so its pretty easy. Finding a crank with .003 runout isn't uncommon, a few precision taps with a brass hammer can usually get one within .001. The Polaris sled service manual even has a procedure for truing on the 2 and three cylinder cranks, all with a brass hammer and a holding fixture.



Nice! I see many 583 and XLT cranks that come out of the case at .006"-.010" out! If run long enough, they'll take out the ends of the crank (undersize the bearing mount surface).


----------



## OhioGregg (Mar 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I just use Nachi Bearings directly from a bearing supply. They are unsealed and C3 rated. Made in Japan.



I must have bought from the wrong place. :msp_mellow: Put a set of Nachi 6203 bearings in a Poulan 5200, they were made in Taiwan, not Japan. At least they have a metal cage. Oh well, good enough for an old Poulan I guess.








Gregg,


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 9, 2013)

Andyshine77 said:


> Well it should run real good!!!! For a while.



It's got about 20 tanks thru it......it's fun to run. 



trx250r180 said:


> Was this saw running a black coil ?



Nope.



thomas1 said:


> Just got the legs of one?



Hi Tom......."I have a potty mouth". 



XSKIER said:


> Does anyone ever check the "true" of these chainsaw crankshafts? I always read that "the crank is fine" but never see it quantified as .001" runout or less. I'll bet that .002" or .003" crankshaft runout in a C3 fit bearing, at 10,500 rpm (in the cut) will overheat the bearing balls and cook the locators, regardless of composition, in a short amount of time. Looser fit C4 bearings are more tolerant to out of tolerances and thermal expansion. Or, just could be that the bearings were side loaded in the case to crank fit and made the heat that way.



Solo 681 we just did.....the crank was out of phase and had .007 run out. Checking run out really sure be talked about more IMHO. 



OhioGregg said:


> I must have bought from the wrong place. :msp_mellow: Put a set of Nachi 6203 bearings in a Poulan 5200, they were made in Taiwan, not Japan. At least they have a metal cage. Oh well, good enough for an old Poulan I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Taiwan huh? I'll be watching mine even closer now Greg. I wonder if the quality is as good?


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 9, 2013)

timmcat said:


> I check any I take out of the cases for repair in the lathe between dead centers, both ends of the crank have center holes so its pretty easy. Finding a crank with *.003 runout* isn't uncommon, a few precision taps with a brass hammer can usually get one within .001. The Polaris sled service manual even has a procedure for truing on the 2 and three cylinder cranks, all with a brass hammer and a holding fixture.





XSKIER said:


> Nice! I see many 583 and XLT cranks that come out of the case at *.006"-.010" out!* *If run long enough, they'll take out the ends of the crank (undersize the bearing mount surface).*



Do you guys think these cranks were out that much when they were produced, or was it from running? I'm thinking production.

For reference,a piece of common paper is .004" thick.

*IMO, for this to happen, the bearing has to seize.* Is this correct?


----------



## Trx250r180 (Mar 9, 2013)

in our atv rear axles a company figured out how to put tapered bearings in our rear axle housings ,they lasted way longer than reg ball bearings ,wonder if with propper shims this could be done on an engine ,or do the high rpms not make this possible ?


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Mar 9, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> in our atv rear axles a company figured out how to put tapered bearings in our rear axle housings ,they lasted way longer than reg ball bearings ,wonder if with propper shims this could be done on an engine ,or do the high rpms not make this possible ?



This might answer your question. 

Outdoor Power Equipment - Jay Webster - Google Books


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Mar 9, 2013)

Always check your crank run-out. Zero'ed is best, but no more than 1/2 a thou for my racing application. When I use ceramic, I use CBR bearings. Expensive, but very good quality........so far no problems.


----------



## XSKIER (Mar 9, 2013)

manyhobies said:


> Do you guys think these cranks were out that much when they were produced, or was it from running? I'm thinking production.
> 
> *IMO, for this to happen, the bearing has to seize.* Is this correct?



I doubt that production tolerances were that loose. Likely those cranks were shock loaded at some point a became out of true. When a crankshaft is "bicycling" in its case, it will destroy the bearings. Although the bearing may not seize completely, the case, crank, and bearings are literally taking a beating.


----------



## tdi-rick (Mar 9, 2013)

OhioGregg said:


> I must have bought from the wrong place. :msp_mellow: Put a set of Nachi 6203 bearings in a Poulan 5200, they were made in Taiwan, not Japan. At least they have a metal cage. Oh well, good enough for an old Poulan I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




As I mentioned way back in this thread, back in the days of 20,000+RPM kart engines my engine builder would only use FAG C4 bearings, and they all used nylon cages.
These were engines that ran at national and world championship level and won quite a few national titles. (not with me driving, though , I only ran them in)

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with a made in Taiwan bearing from a large company like Nachi, their production specs are as good as Japan these days and have been for quite a few years.
The mainland, however.....


----------



## superwd6 (Mar 9, 2013)

just rebuilt my Ski-doo 600 as the crank beaings were coming up through, and just like my CR250 they start coming apart @ the steel rivets holding bearing cage together.Ultra light aircraft Rotax engines use plastic retainer crank bearings,plastic in a stock saw doen't worry me:cool2:


----------



## Eccentric (Mar 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I just use Nachi Bearings directly from a bearing supply. They are unsealed and C3 rated. Made in Japan.



How are those Nachi bearings as far as cost goes compared to Husky OEM? I'm going to be replacing bearings in a 272XP and a 2100CD soon. Would you tell me the Nachi #'s for those two applications?



Mastermind said:


> Jon took this to prove I really work....



Looks more to me like Jon noticed that 'ol grandpa had wandered out of his room (again), and decided to snap a pic of the old fellow messing with the funny looking orange thing on the bench before herding him back to his comfy chair and 'stories' on TV.



OhioGregg said:


> I must have bought from the wrong place. :msp_mellow: Put a set of Nachi 6203 bearings in a Poulan 5200, they were made in Taiwan, not Japan. At least they have a metal cage. Oh well, good enough for an old Poulan I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good Timing Gregg. I'm going to replace bearings in a 4200 and 5200 soon. Thanks for the Nachi #'s for those "old Poulans".


----------



## DSS (Mar 9, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> How are those Nachi bearings as far as cost goes compared to Husky OEM? I'm going to be replacing bearings in a 272XP and a 2100CD soon. Would you tell me the Nachi #'s for those two applications?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A lot of saws use 6203 bearings Aaron. Make sure to get C-3. I get mine locally, I think they're FAG but I can't really remember. I just told them I wanted GOOD bearings. They were less than $10 each. You can get chi-com for a couple of bucks.


----------



## Eccentric (Mar 9, 2013)

DSS said:


> A lot of saws use 6203 bearings Aaron. Make sure to get C-3. I get mine locally, I think they're FAG but I can't really remember. I just told them I wanted GOOD bearings. They were less than $10 each. You can get chi-com for a couple of bucks.



Do the 2100CD or 272XP use 6203 bearings? The 2100CD and 288XP both use one Husky part #, while the 272XP uses another. The bearings for the 272XP (Husky # *738 22 02-25*) cost about twice as much (from Husky parts outlets) as those for the larger saws (*738 22 03-25*) for some reason....


I'm also confused in that one 288XP IPL I have (and my 2100CD IPL) both list *738 22 03-25* for the crank bearings, while a 281/288XP IPL (and a 2101XP IPL) lists *503 25 00-02* instead. What's the difference???


----------



## DSS (Mar 9, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> Do the 2100CD or 272XP use 6203 bearings? The 2100CD and 288XP both use one Husky part #, while the 272XP uses another. The bearings for the 272XP (Husky # 738 22 02-25) cost about twice as much (from Husky parts outlets) as those for the larger saws (738 22 03-25) for some reason....
> 
> 
> I'm also confused in that one 288XP IPL I have (and my 2100CD IPL) both list 738 22 03-25 for the crank bearings, while a 281/288XP IPL (and a 2101XP IPL) lists 503 25 00-02 instead. What's the difference???




Sorry brody. I only got grade 5, that's too many numbers. Plus I'm a cow. 

JJ probly knows.


----------



## DSS (Mar 9, 2013)

If the 272 bearings are twice as much they might be proprietary?


----------



## Eccentric (Mar 9, 2013)

DSS said:


> If the 272 bearings are twice as much they might be proprietary?



That's my thought. Maybe an odd size....

This is the 272XP bearing.
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=HVP+738+22+02+25&catID=

I see in the Baileys listing below (for the 288/2100 bearing) that the Shindaiwa part number they mention has "6203" in it. Also, they mention in that same listing that it is a replacement for both of the large Husky saw bearings that I found in the IPL's............yet the DO have a separate listing for that 'other' bearing (below). Hmm....
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=HVP+738+22+03+25&catID=

This is the other bearing that's in the 2101XP and 281/288XP IPL's. It's slightly cheaper than the above bearing (that is listed as being able to replace both of these). I'm thinking this is the 6203.
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=EHP+503250002&catID=


----------



## Jacob J. (Mar 9, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> That's my thought. Maybe an odd size....
> 
> This is the 272XP bearing.
> Bailey's - OEM Crankshaft Bearing for Husqvarna
> ...



The 272 uses straight 6202 bearings. Like Randy, I use Nachi. Nachi is the OEM supplier for certain Shindaiwa, Echo, Redmax, and Husqvarna applications. 
Most of Husqvarna's mid-sized saws use 6202 bearings which are not proprietary. SNR and FAG are also OEM suppliers for Husqvarna. You can get the C3
rated 6202 bearings and I prefer to get the ZZE shielded bearings and leave the outer shield in (remove the shield facing the crank.)

The 21Hunnert uses 6203. Same deal with the shielded style with the C3 rating. If you're buying "OEM" bearings from Stihl or Husqvarna, you're merely buying 
FAG, SNR, and Nachi bearings in a Stihl/Husqvarna package.


----------



## DSS (Mar 9, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> The 272 uses straight 6202 bearings. Like Randy, I use Nachi. Nachi is the OEM supplier for certain Shindaiwa, Echo, Redmax, and Husqvarna applications.
> 
> Most of Husqvarna's mid-sized saws use 6202 bearings which are not proprietary. SNR and FAG are also OEM suppliers for Husqvarna. You can get the C3
> 
> ...




Allegedly


----------



## Jacob J. (Mar 9, 2013)

DSS said:


> Allegedly



I accept that you have no agenda.


----------



## DSS (Mar 9, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> I accept that you have no agenda.




Its about dang time somebody did. 

Thanks JJ. You are a true and dear friend.


----------



## Eccentric (Mar 9, 2013)

Thanks JJ. I knew I could get the straight stuff from you (even if you did ditch Beaker). That tarted up bovine on the other hand.......oke:


----------



## Eccentric (Mar 9, 2013)

OK a 5w bulb just went on over muh head. If my 288XP, 2100CD, and 5200 Poulan all take the same 6203 bearings.................then they should all take the same crank seals as long as the width of the bores for the seal bodies are the same. Am I right? This simplifies things greatly....


----------



## Adirondackstihl (Mar 9, 2013)

Anyone seen Randy?

Ohhhhh......there he is....


----------



## thomas1 (Mar 9, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> Do the 2100CD or 272XP use 6203 bearings? The 2100CD and 288XP both use one Husky part #, while the 272XP uses another. The bearings for the 272XP (Husky # *738 22 02-25*) cost about twice as much (from Husky parts outlets) as those for the larger saws (*738 22 03-25*) for some reason....
> 
> 
> I'm also confused in that one 288XP IPL I have (and my 2100CD IPL) both list *738 22 03-25* for the crank bearings, while a 281/288XP IPL (and a 2101XP IPL) lists *503 25 00-02* instead. What's the difference???





DSS said:


> Sorry brody. I only got grade 5, that's too many numbers. Plus I'm a cow.
> 
> JJ probly knows.





Jacob J. said:


> The 272 uses straight 6202 bearings. Like Randy, I use Nachi. Nachi is the OEM supplier for certain Shindaiwa, Echo, Redmax, and Husqvarna applications.
> Most of Husqvarna's mid-sized saws use 6202 bearings which are not proprietary. SNR and FAG are also OEM suppliers for Husqvarna. You can get the C3
> rated 6202 bearings and I prefer to get the ZZE shielded bearings and leave the outer shield in (remove the shield facing the crank.)
> 
> ...



This has got to be the sorriest excuse for a hijack I have ever seen. I shall weep uncontrollably for many moons.


----------



## Eccentric (Mar 9, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> This has got to be the sorriest excuse for a hijack I have ever seen. I shall weep uncontrollably for many moons.





Jacob J. said:


> ....Most of Husqvarna's mid-sized saws use 6202 bearings which are not proprietary. SNR and *FAG* are also OEM suppliers for Husqvarna.....



Get over it Tom. You should be happy that there are chainsaw bearings named after you.


----------



## DSS (Mar 9, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> This has got to be the sorriest excuse for a hijack I have ever seen. I shall weep uncontrollably for many moons.




Well apparently you're a sorry excuse for a human being, but we don't mind. 

Weep away.


----------



## stihl sawing (Mar 9, 2013)

DSS said:


> Well apparently you're a sorry excuse for a human being, but we don't mind.
> 
> Weep away.


Oh My!:msp_ohmy:


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 9, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> The 272 uses straight 6202 bearings. Like Randy, I use Nachi. Nachi is the OEM supplier for certain Shindaiwa, Echo, Redmax, and Husqvarna applications.
> Most of Husqvarna's mid-sized saws use 6202 bearings which are not proprietary. SNR and FAG are also OEM suppliers for Husqvarna. You can get the C3
> rated 6202 bearings and I prefer to get the ZZE shielded bearings and leave the outer shield in (remove the shield facing the crank.)
> 
> ...



Good stuff and stuff JJ....thank for helping Aaron. He needs a lot. 



Adirondackstihl said:


> Anyone seen Randy?
> 
> Ohhhhh......there he is....



I like it !!!!


----------



## Eccentric (Mar 9, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Good stuff and stuff JJ....thank for helping Aaron. He needs a lot.



Not quite sure what that means.....:msp_confused:


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 9, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> Not quite sure what that means.....:msp_confused:



See? :msp_sad:

JJ....explain this to him.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Mar 9, 2013)

I heard the 041 unibearings are a direct fit for a 372.......


----------



## DSS (Mar 10, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> Not quite sure what that means.....:msp_confused:




I am.


----------



## Justsaws (Mar 10, 2013)

XSKIER said:


> Does anyone ever check the "true" of these chainsaw crankshafts? I always read that "the crank is fine" but never see it quantified as .001" runout or less. I'll bet that .002" or .003" crankshaft runout in a C3 fit bearing, at 10,500 rpm (in the cut) will overheat the bearing balls and cook the locators, regardless of composition, in a short amount of time. Looser fit C4 bearings are more tolerant to out of tolerances and thermal expansion. Or, just could be that the bearings were side loaded in the case to crank fit and made the heat that way.



When a customer takes one of these particular saws in to be serviced, the customer is not going to be willing to pay to have a crank checked. They are looking to have the saw repaired under warranty. *IF* the saw is going to be repaired under warranty and the previous model is followed the saws will get a new crank, bearings, seals and gasket set, hit and miss on the clutch. The old parts have been supposedly picked up by a rep but are often thrown away.

At the shop rate dealers charge I would be amazed if any brand of saw would want a dealership checking cranks. That being said, locally there are 2 saw dealers that could do it and at least an additional 3 places within 20 minutes of those dealers. All would be too expensive to bother with when the trued crank is an unknown for the customer where as the new parts come with a warranty.

As of last week none of the 4 saws that I have mentioned are not being covered by Husqvarna. If the saws are not repaired under warranty they will not be repaired but parted out to keep the owners other saws running. The owners will pick those saws up, they will not leave them at the dealership. 

In the past, Husqvarna cranks pulled from saws with similiar bearing failures have been within the "tolerances" of new out of the box cranks. Not all off them but enough to be comfortable taking a gamble on getting some of the cranks that were pulled if they get replaced.

Yeah, I am waiting for another round of cranks. I even got a new hammer.


----------



## sachsmo (Mar 10, 2013)

Brass or steel cage for high RPM?

I rebuilt a huge center at work, the Fafnir precision angular contact bearings were $700 a set!


----------



## DSS (Mar 10, 2013)

I just put bearings in a 150 hp exhaust fan at work. 4 7/16 shaft I believe it was. The bearing was almost $1000 and the pillow block was over $1100. Expensive critters, good bearings.


----------



## thomas1 (Mar 10, 2013)

DSS said:


> I just put bearings in a 150 hp exhaust fan at work. 4 7/16 shaft I believe it was. The bearing was almost $1000 and the pillow block was over $1100. Expensive critters, good bearings.



That's kinda big for a bathroom fan, is the poutine that bad?


----------



## DSS (Mar 10, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> That's kinda big for a bathroom fan, is the poutine that bad?




If its rotten going in its gotta be rotten coming out.


----------



## thomas1 (Mar 10, 2013)

DSS said:


> If its rotten going in its gotta be rotten coming out.



True, but 150hp? That's gotta be at least 200,000,00,0,00km/kg/ml/cm/°C.


----------



## DSS (Mar 10, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> True, but 150hp? That's gotta be at least 200,000,00,0,00km/kg/ml/cm/°C.




Is that more than 40%???


----------



## thomas1 (Mar 10, 2013)

DSS said:


> Is that more than 40%???



I don't think so, the only thing more than 40% is 10%.


----------



## Mastermind (Mar 10, 2013)

Sorry Boss.......I just had to. :msp_ohmy:

[video=youtube;BhOlR4A-S9c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhOlR4A-S9c[/video]


----------



## weimedog (Nov 2, 2014)

So... bottom line, I just got a new set of cases to build up a saw.... put the thing together and took a closer look .. it has those plastic cage bearings. SO do I pull it apart and put metal cage bearings in or let go into service???


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 2, 2014)

Turns out it was an issue with misaligned bearing pockets in a limited run of saws that caused the problem. The plastic caged bearings are fine.


----------



## weimedog (Nov 2, 2014)

Thank you!!! I'll continue......


----------



## weimedog (Nov 2, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Turns out it was an issue with misaligned bearing pockets in a limited run of saws that caused the problem. The plastic caged bearings are fine.


 Of course what that means is these clutch side bearing dead x-torq's will need new cases when you find them. I have a 2166 with a toasted clutch side bearing I was able to pick up for a build saw. Looks like I'll build it on some older orange cases..


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 2, 2014)

Well the bearings do fail. 

People run em on 50:1......and they fail.


----------



## Tnshaker (Nov 2, 2014)

So.....does 40:1 or 32:1 solve the issues..or at least help?


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 2, 2014)

Yes.....

I like to see OE oils used @ 40:1.....and oild like Belray, Maxima, etc @ 32:1


----------



## Tnshaker (Nov 2, 2014)

Call me crazy....I know the xtorque does not seem to make the rpm or throttle response as the oe but seems to have a tiny bit more grunt. i really Luke the xtorque for some reason. Especially ported with a 24".


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 2, 2014)

The XT can be made really strong. 

I just don't like that the piston is too heavy for the crank. 

Remember.....that crank was designed for a 65cc engine.....


----------



## Tnshaker (Nov 2, 2014)

True.... the xt piston is wayyyyy heavier than an OE piston. I want the 372xt to run like a mastermind 441c....or the 441c handle like a 372..lol!


----------



## weimedog (Nov 3, 2014)

I'm certain it's possible to graft the 75cc xpw top end on the X-torq ... after some Master Mind treatment, and then eBay the old X-torq Top End... to recover some cost. Bet you would have exactly what you are looking for.

And.. actually. starting with a 2166 or 365 new, top end cost - eBay cost recovery on the stocker, plus mods cost might even beat the cost of starting new with a Stihl plus mods.


----------



## olyman (Nov 3, 2014)

damn right


Mastermind said:


> Well the bearings do fail.
> 
> People run em on 50:1......and they fail.


 .. why run em on 50:1,,when you are running synthetic???? 32:1, thank you.. and in 40 yrs,,no problems...


----------



## Marshy (Nov 3, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Turns out it was an issue with misaligned bearing pockets in a limited run of saws that caused the problem. The plastic caged bearings are fine.


 
How did you come to that conclusion, is it in one the previous pages that I did not read? Just cerious...


----------



## mdavlee (Nov 3, 2014)

Marshy said:


> How did you come to that conclusion, is it in one the previous pages that I did not read? Just cerious...


I believe it was in a service bulletin.


----------



## lone wolf (Nov 3, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> I just use Nachi Bearings directly from a bearing supply. They are unsealed and C3 rated. Made in Japan.


Link?


----------



## Mastermind (Nov 3, 2014)

I would be linking to a non site sponsor. 

Just use Google.


----------



## hseII (Nov 3, 2014)

weimedog said:


> I'm certain it's possible to graft the 75cc xpw top end on the X-torq ... after some Master Mind treatment, and then eBay the old X-torq Top End... to recover some cost. Bet you would have exactly what you are looking for.
> 
> And.. actually. starting with a 2166 or 365 new, top end cost - eBay cost recovery on the stocker, plus mods cost might even beat the cost of starting new with a Stihl plus mods.



Or just buy a MMMS440/441/441cm/460/461 and be cutting rather than wrenching.

 
Bless Your Heart


----------



## lone wolf (Nov 3, 2014)

hseII said:


> Or just buy a MMMS440/441/441cm/460/461 and be cutting rather than wrenching.
> 
> 
> Bless Your Heart


Thats what I run.


----------



## Termite (Nov 3, 2014)

Jacob J. said:


> The 272 uses straight 6202 bearings. Like Randy, I use Nachi. Nachi is the OEM supplier for certain Shindaiwa, Echo, Redmax, and Husqvarna applications.
> Most of Husqvarna's mid-sized saws use 6202 bearings which are not proprietary. SNR and FAG are also OEM suppliers for Husqvarna. You can get the C3
> rated 6202 bearings and I prefer to get the ZZE shielded bearings and leave the outer shield in (remove the shield facing the crank.)
> 
> ...



Jacob or anyone else, are those bearings shielded or sealed?


----------



## Jimmy in NC (Nov 3, 2014)

No shield or seal. Open caged C3 bearings. If you buy them with rubber seals, they pop right out. Then just some brake cleaner to get the grease out before installing.. nothing to it.


----------



## blsnelling (Nov 3, 2014)

Most that I see come with rubber seals. I simply remove them. They pop right out.


----------



## Jimmy in NC (Nov 3, 2014)

I don't know why but it's normally cheaper to buy them with the rubber seals for me.


----------



## weimedog (Jul 25, 2016)

weimedog said:


> So... bottom line, I just got a new set of cases to build up a saw.... put the thing together and took a closer look .. it has those plastic cage bearings. SO do I pull it apart and put metal cage bearings in or let go into service???



So....a couple of years later.......trend is NOT cases but the Nylon caged bearings. Built that 2166 and its been fine for a while in the hands of a logger. Have seen more bad bearings but ALL have been those nylon caged variety. In my mind, any time I see Nylon caged bearings in those Husqvarna cases, they will be changed. Period. Going to in my low hour 2172 as well. Nachi's for me.


----------

