# Has anyone split locust into fence rail posts?



## lovetheoutdoors (Jun 30, 2006)

I have a side job coming up and will be cutting about 30 locust trees down. The guy im working for wants the trees split into fence rail posts, have any of you guys did this? Whats the right way to do it? and what are the best lengths? any info will help.


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## B-Edwards (Jul 1, 2006)

I used to split these into posts about 8 feet long. At first i did it using a sledge and wedges think i kept 3 or 4 wedges handy but usualy 2 is all it takes .Its just like splitting firewood ,but you want to keep the things as uniform as you can .Later i made a hydraulic splitter for this . If these are going to be rails as in horizontal im not sure on the length but the thickness would be smaller than a post. I think the same way to split as for posts would apply.


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 1, 2006)

B-Edwards.....When you start splitting the 8 ft section, where do you begin with the wedges?


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## turnkey4099 (Jul 1, 2006)

lovetheoutdoors said:


> B-Edwards.....When you start splitting the 8 ft section, where do you begin with the wedges?




You start a wedge in the end of the log and then chase the split with other wedges as you work down the log. You have to plan the start of the split to (hopefully) miss any knots. I did a bunch back in the 70s splitting them for fence posts. Locust really is not that hard splitting, I think it is ranked as either 'easy' or 'medium' - been a long time since I saw a list.

Harry K


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 1, 2006)

turnkey4099 said:


> You start a wedge in the end of the log and then chase the split with other wedges as you work down the log. You have to plan the start of the split to (hopefully) miss any knots. I did a bunch back in the 70s splitting them for fence posts. Locust really is not that hard splitting, I think it is ranked as either 'easy' or 'medium' - been a long time since I saw a list.
> 
> Harry K




thanks for your reply, i dont know if 8 foot lengths or 10 ft lengths would be better.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Jul 1, 2006)

lovetheoutdoors said:


> thanks for your reply, i dont know if 8 foot lengths or 10 ft lengths would be better.




Depends on the fence you're building. If you want a 6' fence, you're going to need 8' posts, or thereabouts.


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## Stumper (Jul 2, 2006)

Yes.

Wedges and gluts.


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 2, 2006)

I should get started on it at the end of next week. First i will drop all the trees and cut them into the lengths prefered. Then go to work with the axe and wedges


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## turnkey4099 (Jul 2, 2006)

lovetheoutdoors said:


> I should get started on it at the end of next week. First i will drop all the trees and cut them into the lengths prefered. Then go to work with the axe and wedges



Be aware before starting that your rails/posts will not be neat, straight thingies. They will twist, turn and have knotty bumps. Great for a rustic look. Locust doesn't split into neat things like cedar does.

Harry K


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## TimberJack_7 (Jul 2, 2006)

The Amish up here in NE Ohio go crazy for locust fence post simply because the last forever. I believe they like to cut them when they are somewhere between 4 and 6 inches in diameter so they don't have to monkey around with splitting them, but I am sure they would take them however they could get them. I used to have one guy that was always asking me for them.


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## B-Edwards (Jul 2, 2006)

I did start at the end when splitting them but i didnt do it like firewood, i stared on the side . You need to see where the grain runs, and go through knots or avoid them. It wont take you long to learn all of this.Make sure your not splitting them to small or to large because you want to get all you can out of a log but dont make toothpicks either. Good luck.


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 6, 2006)

thanks fellas, i will get started on this project this weekend.


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## Adkpk (Jul 6, 2006)

I saw on pbs or something some guys splitting long pieces of wood with a froe and some kind of jig they made to keep it up at chest height. The jig allowed them to pinch the wood in between two other pieces of wood so it wouldn't move while they pounded on the froe. If sounds feasible write back I will try to explain it better.


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 6, 2006)

sound good, if you have more info that would be good.


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## Adkpk (Jul 6, 2006)

I can't remember the program, sorry. There is a froe being autioned on ebay. The jig was like a horse you would make to lay logs in to cut them with a hand saw, follow me? But it was six foot tall. the crossmember was two 2x4's offset close to the width of the wood you be spliting. The wood to be split was placed in between the 2 bys and put some down force on while the other guy wacked at the froe with the mallot. There is a guy (woodshop) on this site, he is the jig master. pm him with this he'll be better at setting you up with a plan. Good luck, happy spliting.


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 6, 2006)

Adrpk said:


> I can't remember the program, sorry. There is a froe being autioned on ebay. The jig was like a horse you would make to lay logs in to cut them with a hand saw, follow me? But it was six foot tall. the crossmember was two 2x4's offset close to the width of the wood you be spliting. The wood to be split was placed in between the 2 bys and put some down force on while the other guy wacked at the froe with the mallot. There is a guy (woodshop) on this site, he is the jig master. pm him with this he'll be better at setting you up with a plan. Good luck, happy spliting.




thanks for the info!!!


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## Sprig (Jul 7, 2006)

*Ah the memories.........*

I have never spit locust wood but have done far too many rails from cedar. I wouldn't even bother with a froe (sp?), we used two (3) good wide wedges and once you get two or three feet down the length use two long (6+ft) prybars to seperate the rest, saves a ton of work but takes two peeps. We made our bars out of circa 30's car drive shafts (the octagonal ones) and had the one of the ends tapered and flattened (we took them to a local blacksmith who did that for a case of beer and 20$, good deal imo, kept them from being brittle), they were about 7' long for leverage (watch yer shins btw) as we were doing logs up to 3ft diam.. It beats the heck out of hammering away for half the day and my mate and I could do several hundred on a good day. Biggest mistake I made was offering to build the fence lol, iyiyiyi, 10ft posts in gravel (ever go for a ride on an auger? oi), he wanted 3ft in the ground, burnt ends. A week later when it was done the owner told us they were too high (the posts) and I had to walk down the line with saw in hand and buck them off (if I remember it was about 200 posts in)  You will find prybars will make short work of it, as for using locust from what I know they do last a very long time and are one of the best post choices.
Just my 0.02$ worth despite the, um, fond memories.



Serge


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## buzz sawyer (Jul 8, 2006)

I've split rails and posts by striking a line and then make a sawcut about halfway through lengthwise, then finish with wedges. That eliminates uneveness from knots and curves and still gives the hand-split look. Never once felt safety was jeopardized. After the posts are in the ground, I mark the rail heights with a storypole and chainsaw the rail holes with a plunge cut using safety chain to minimize kickback. No problems after doing this for about 25 years.


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## gladhatter (Jul 9, 2006)

buzz sawyer said:


> I've split rails and posts by striking a line and then make a sawcut about halfway through lengthwise, then finish with wedges. That eliminates uneveness from knots and curves and still gives the hand-split look. Never once felt safety was jeopardized. After the posts are in the ground, I mark the rail heights with a storypole and chainsaw the rail holes with a plunge cut using safety chain to minimize kickback. No problems after doing this for about 25 years.




A man from wheeling should know for sure after 25 years of doing this. I am no expert but have lived in the woods a life time. 

I will correct a few ideas related here. A from is for pallens, shingle shakes and tobbacco sticks and such. Not for spliting rails.

Now you say locust is it black locust or yellow or some kind I have not heard of. Traditional rails are 11 feet in lenght for 10 feet spans. 

Locust is preferred by them that have nothing better and is a fine material but far over rated. It will last 20 years in the ground and longer is harvested in the fall and set in a good gravel bed. I have seen some last 100 years but its the exception not the rule. Osage orange ( bodock and other perverions of the frech name that I will not attempt here is the best) for post but Chestnut (not available so much any more) is the ultimate rail.

Spliting is a learned art and you tackle it and learn as you go. 2 wedges work fine for small trees but larger ones may require 3-4 wedges and numerous wooden gluts. 

Buring ( charring) then ends of post will extend the life many fold and will make white and red oak last near as long as locust. 

Slant cut tops or tin can covered ones where function over looks is a good way to go. 

If it is rocky ridge stunted holler and dying locust then its not going to last 20 good years but if its rich ground healthy locust you may get a good bang for your buck... 

Least that is how if is around here. 

Charlie


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 9, 2006)

What would you guys say the best size of wood will be to split, i dont want to waist my time on small stuff, it is very good firewood. i dropped a few of them yesterday and limbed it and cut my 10ft sections but im wondering what thickness is to small to split.


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## gladhatter (Jul 9, 2006)

Long straight first cuts is the premium stuff to split and also last best. By far the best spilts as well if you are familiar with slitting rails or even if you are not. You can start a wedge in the end as was suggested but spilting them is a process as the other guy describbed and you follow the split down the log. Some cases more than Knot( pun intended) you are correcting the split down the log. The two bar method the one man described is also good. You also need a pole axe and or double bit and very sharp ones. Using a chainsaw with ripping or standard teeth is a possibility but not generally the one for the desired finished look. 

All folks here also described using poles and plunge cuts etc. Not bad advise from the man from WVA but have you considered a more traditional stacked rail fence? These was more often a 12 feet rail and not post or holes are desired. 

Then you have ask how big? Well when you get used to splitting you will find the bigger the better of course. After first split the hugher the better. Rest of the splits then are much easier after first. This is not childs play you understand nor for frail yungins or women. It is hard work and is made easier only with years of it and some patience and skills. If there are any 90 year old men around you they may can watch and advise you better. 

See a log hughing kit on ebay some months ago and while it was every professional 200 year old tool needed for making a hughed log house, many of them would make your spliting easier as well but you do not require more than wedges and a hammer but sheap nose maul and axes and splitting mauls ( not really the modern ones) more blunt older ones specific to your needs makes the job much easier. 

Hope some of this helps. 

Again of all I have written here, large straight trees are your friend and no limbs for first 10 feet. 

Finally talk to your customer and see if they would prefer sassyfrass if it is avaliable as it works easier and is lighter 10 times and will out last the locust in the same conditions . 

Last suggestion is if they want blackgum or dog wood split for any reason you run just as hard as you can go. 

Charlie


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## buzz sawyer (Jul 9, 2006)

Gladhatter, you are right on the mark with what you say. I like to do things the traditional way and should try using only wedges - may even be faster than sawing with the right tree. Stacked rail is also a good option. Takes a little more splitting but no digging and no holes to cut. 

Lovetheoutdoors,
As for size, if I have a 4" - 5" dia. tree, I'll split it in two for rails. I like at least 6" for a post. If the diameter is 9" or larger, I'll split into multiple rails. Haven't worked with anything bigger yet but will be soon. 

As Gladhatter said, the tradional length for a section of fence is 11'. This was done to aid in surveying. Six lengths equals 66' or one Gunters Chain. Ten square chains equals one acre, 80 chains equals one mile (880 feet or one furlong). One could walk along a fence and determine the size of the field. 

I believe ten feet is the standard length for rails now - at least that was the length I got when I ran out of locust and had to buy some.


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 9, 2006)

buzz sawyer said:


> Gladhatter, you are right on the mark with what you say. I like to do things the traditional way and should try using only wedges - may even be faster than sawing with the right tree. Stacked rail is also a good option. Takes a little more splitting but no digging and no holes to cut.
> 
> Lovetheoutdoors,
> As for size, if I have a 4" - 5" dia. tree, I'll split it in two for rails. I like at least 6" for a post. If the diameter is 9" or larger, I'll split into multiple rails. Haven't worked with anything bigger yet but will be soon.
> ...




thanks for the info, im gonna have various sizes from 5"-6" up to 2ft or so. I have started off cutting them into 10ft sections.


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## gladhatter (Jul 9, 2006)

lovetheoutdoors said:


> thanks for the info, im gonna have various sizes from 5"-6" up to 2ft or so. I have started off cutting them into 10ft sections.




Well I think you will do well but at 10 feet you will have to do the post at around 9 feet to allow the hewn ends to penetrate the post. 13 feet is good for stacked rails but then they are not as easy to manage. 

I think you will enjoy it regardless and it can be a rewarding experience if you allow it. 

You want to get a good center split on the larger one for sure then just start spliting healthy slabs off them and then respilt them to a desired size. It should make a beautiful fence. If you get er dun we may work out another one and let you ship her down this way... 

Charlie


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## turnkey4099 (Jul 9, 2006)

As to size. Just personal preference but I wouldn't bother with a log that I couldn't get at least 4 rails out of.

I started to put together a "old timers" log kit. All I got so far is the adz and a drawknife. Have been looking for a broadax but the ones I found (ebay) are way over priced.

That adz is a great tool for taking stumps down below ground level. Hard on the tool but it works great.

Harry K


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## gladhatter (Jul 9, 2006)

turnkey4099 said:


> As to size. Just personal preference but I wouldn't bother with a log that I couldn't get at least 4 rails out of.
> 
> I started to put together a "old timers" log kit. All I got so far is the adz and a drawknife. Have been looking for a broadax but the ones I found (ebay) are way over priced.
> 
> ...




That had one to die for on there almost a year ago. 400 I think for it all but it had dove tail jigs and brace and bit and other boring rigs all the trimmings some that I had never knew existed with it. 

Hope you can find it in a search as I doubt it sold.


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 10, 2006)

what is a old timers log kit??????????????


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## gladhatter (Jul 10, 2006)

lovetheoutdoors said:


> what is a old timers log kit??????????????




All the tools to make and notch square dove tail cut logs for houses. Some unusual ones was in there. 

Charlie


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 10, 2006)

gladhatter said:


> All the tools to make and notch square dove tail cut logs for houses. Some unusual ones was in there.
> 
> Charlie




Ahhhh


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## B-Edwards (Jul 11, 2006)

I dunno Gladhatter i hear Blackgum makes a mighty fine split rail:hmm3grin2orange:


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## gladhatter (Jul 11, 2006)

B-Edwards said:


> I dunno Gladhatter i hear Blackgum makes a mighty fine split rail:hmm3grin2orange:




Well yeah but I hoped to throw all the users off and they would not split up all the Black gum that a way. Now I will have to try and hide the next in line favorite of green Sycamore from them. 

Charlie


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 11, 2006)

gladhatter said:


> Well yeah but I hoped to throw all the users off and they would not split up all the Black gum that a way. Now I will have to try and hide the next in line favorite of green Sycamore from them.
> 
> Charlie




BLACK GUM!!!!:deadhorse: geez i dont even try to slpit that stuff by hand.


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## lovetheoutdoors (Jul 13, 2006)

I will keep you fellas up to date on this project.....i fell several trees today, and i looked around and counted there are way more than 30 locust trees....more like 70 or 80......its a good thing im working by the hour.


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