# SE PA, Dead & dying, too many trees PLEASE HELP!



## curdy (Jul 9, 2009)

I'll do the best I can to explain the situation and provide as many pictures as I can. We've lived at this property for 4 years now. It was in neglected shape when we moved in. We've spent a good bit of time and $ on clean up and tree work. I'm getting pretty discouraged as we seem to continuously have trees of all ages dying. We've had some understandable losses from storm damage, construction damage (that one really ticks me off), and insects (carpenter ants). 

Now we have several others that look stressed and I'm really looking for help. Its not just about the beauty and enjoyment of the property, its expensive to have them removed. 

I didn't bother taking pics of the ones that are already dead and are coming down soon. 2 of them were nice mature trees that showed absolutely no signs of dying. Red oak and bitternut? hickory. I can take pics of those if it will help. 

Please let me know what information I can provide. Here are the pics:

*White oak in center and 2 shag bark hickory to the left. One of the hickories is almost now bare and has lots of leaves shriveling up. The other one has leaves that get much smaller as it goes up.*











*A pic from underneath the 2 hickory in the last 2 pic.*






*Red oak in center, maple surrounding*







*Beech*






*Hickory*










Hickory to left and maple to the right


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## curdy (Jul 9, 2009)

I would agree, but only to a certain extent. Several of the trees are in areas where the equipment never went to. The brush clearing was done by me and that was 4 years ago. I did it by hand and with a compact tractor when it was dry and the ground wasn't soft.

Either way, if it is soil compaction and root damage, what can I do? 

If there's a true arborist in the Lancaster/Philly area that can help, please get in touch with me. I have plenty of guys that just want to come in and take everything down...I want a guy that will tell me, 'Yeah I can save those and here's how we're going to do it...'


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## S Mc (Jul 9, 2009)

Curdy, I hope a qualified arborist from your area contacts you soon.

You have changed the environment of these trees tremendously in the last four years, granted in good faith. However, trees really don't like change. Understory plants can be important to upper canopy species; be it protection for their trunks from exposure to sun, helping to stabilize moisture content in the soil, providing decomposing matter which goes back into the land for nutrient uptake.

Your construction will likely have impacted much more than you realize as not only the trees that were directly affected succumb and die but then the ones on the edge that are now more exposed will be affected by environmental factors as well. The white oak may have had roots out where they were impacted (figure 10 to 12" radius per 1" diameter of trunk to visualize a critical root zone for this tree) and it appears that most of the growth is on one side of the tree, suggesting there was something in front of it that is no longer there.

As your tree people take down trees, try to get the firewood away from your living trees and covered if there is ANY chance of insects or fungal pathogens. Remove your brush piles (have them chipped preferrably) and remember to not burn close to your trees. People make the mistake of having burn piles too close and the heat can sear trees. (I'm not suggesting that is the case here....just a reminder.) Both brush piles and stacks of wood can become undesirable habitats.

In your efforts towards improvement, I hope no fertilizer and/or herbicides have been applied to the now grass area under these trees and that these grasses are native species only.

Trees change and respond to change slowly. When impact occurs, the results of that may not be seen for years.

Sylvia


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## curdy (Jul 9, 2009)

If memory serves me correctly, that side of the white oak was hit by 2 other large red oaks when they blew over in a storm about 2.5 years ago. Our neighbor clear cut his entire back portion of his property. This is exposed the trees quite a bit to say the least.

No fertilizer and/or herbicides have been applied.

Our fire pit is far from any trees.

Do you think they're savable?


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## S Mc (Jul 9, 2009)

A lot has changed on this property a fairly short (tree) time period. At this point, I would hold on cutting anything down that wasn't 100% dead or a specific hazard to your property. The trees are going through an adjusting period and they will retrench themselves as best they can to compensate. 

In my personal opinion, we have a tendency to try to "fix" things too quickly and can start a pendulum effect that we didn't intend. 

Maintain a normal irrigation effort, augmenting only as needed for lack of natural rainfall. If you are getting plenty of rain and these trees were never irrigated then that should be fine. New construction can alter water availability, so I would not want to necessarily rely on an underground source being available to them as it may have in the past. So if you are in a drought situation, consider augmentation.

I would try to keep the area as natural as possible.

Sylvia


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## treeseer (Jul 10, 2009)

:agree2: totally with Dan and Sylvia (except t say that brush piles can be highly desirable habitats). By removing all the native groundcover and shrubs and replacing them with exotic invasive turfgrass planted trunk to trunk, the roots are strained to keep functioning as they did.

The neighbor's clearcut did not help, but basically it is construction damage--damage from constructing a lawn. Job #1 is to kill the grass everywhere you do not need it, and cover with 4" of mulch (yes chipping the brush piles for this purpose would be good, but you will need a lot more).

Click the link below and check out the Mulching and Treatment of Construction Damage info, for starters. attached is one view of an arborist's role in tree health care. The white oak looks saveable, the hickories not.


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## derwoodii (Jul 12, 2009)

Agree with all above sadly they look in decline.
Try a sugar hit... I have had good results, some have argued not repeatable but I say what the hell costs little has no cons and could help.

Read below a few extracts & try the link good luck 

Journal of Arboriculture 30(6): November 2004

http://www.treelink.org/joa/2004/nov/percival11-04.pdf

Abstract. The influence of sugar (sucrose) applied as a root drench
at 25, 50, or 70 g (0.9, 1.8, or 2.7 oz) per liter of water on root and
shoot vigor, leaf chlorophyll fluorescence, photosynthetic rates,
and chlorophyll content in silver birch (Betula pendula)


In conclusion, applications of sugars at 25 and 50 g (0.9 and 1.8 oz) per liter of water improved root vigor of the majority of trees tested and may be useful in reducing transplant shock in landscape plantings. Although further studies are required to understand the mechanistic basis by which improvements in root vigor occurred, sugar feeding may be an area worthy of further research given the fact that sugars are water soluble, nontoxic, environmentally safe, and inexpensive to purchase

The application of soluble carbohydrate could encourage mychorrizal associations to form in a number of ways. They could act as an initial source of energy for the mychorrizae, i.e. as a biostimulant, causing those fungi already present in the soil to become active


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## Lee James (Apr 13, 2017)

Friends, I am so sorry to hear the frustration and loss of trees. I live in NY state. Near the city of Hornell. It is on the PA border in the foothills of the Catskill mountains. Millions of trees are dying here from the Emerald Ash Tree Borer. On our 50 acres, at least 5 of 6 trees will be dead. It reminds me of another devastating die-off of the Elm trees in my home area. We have little chance to save many trees. I know that I want to treat some of the oldest living trees I own. I would like to know the best treatment and how to treat them safely and effectively. I would like to help nearby communities who have 300-year-old or older Ash trees to save them. The next question is what to plant in the place of the Ash trees to prevent erosion and replace the Ash. We have tried to have our Ash logged to save some of our retirement money. There are still hundreds of smaller Ash 4-6" that will be dying soon. Thousands of tiny holes cover the bark of the trees. Tiny larvae fall on you as you walk in the trees. While we have some Oak, Maple and other hardwoods in the forest. No pines here. We are considering trying to produce Biochar from the dead trees but the massive number of dying trees is overwhelming. I am told these bugs came from China. My Senator is trying to pass legislation to protect our lands from more devastation. I hope others will learn from our losses and protect our homelands. Thank you for your time and consideration. Good luck to all trying to solve your issues! Leia


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## Lee James (Apr 13, 2017)

derwoodii said:


> Agree with all above sadly they look in decline.
> Try a sugar hit... I have had good results, some have argued not repeatable but I say what the hell costs little has no cons and could help.
> 
> Read below a few extracts & try the link good luck
> ...


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## Lee James (Apr 13, 2017)

Thank you for the information of the soluble carbs. The myco activity is so valuable in many gardens and I will try it on the trees I have treated for the Ash borer. Any help is valuable.


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