# Amazing



## mick05 (Jun 4, 2017)

How does this guy do that?


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## northmanlogging (Jun 4, 2017)

That's a siswheel.

Crooked block face on one side, cut the hold wood off on the other, granted that was a very dramatic view. and got some serious motion out of it..

Also he made the back cut from the backside, I wouldn't recommend, but what evs


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## bitzer (Jun 5, 2017)

He got lucky. It hit another tree causing it to roll. You see all the branches and top material as soon as it falls and shows up in the frame. He also made his backcut from the wrong side(low dangerous side) like northy said. I don't think he understands how to apply the cut he attempted. There was no swinging effect in the tree and the top couldn't have moved much because his holding wood broke almost immediately. The tree went where it wanted. He thought it looked cool on video though. Now there are scenarios when you can get a tree to roll but this wasn't one of them. He could have had the same effect without the sizwheel just by cutting that far side off. The tree it hit did most of the work.


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## mick05 (Jun 5, 2017)

Ok cheers guys...it does look cool though. Still not sure how he bought it back away from its natural Lean?
When you line it up with the trees in the background it certainly is leaning not the way it fell.


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## GrassGuerilla (Jun 5, 2017)

mick05 said:


> Ok cheers guys...it does look cool though. Still not sure how he bought it back away from its natural Lean?
> When you line it up with the trees in the background it certainly is leaning not the way it fell.


Not sure what you're seeing that I don't... but that tree fell exactly where I thought it wanted to, only oddity was the roll it did. But the roll didn't have much effect on where it went (if any).


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## northmanlogging (Jun 5, 2017)

Bitz is right, didn't notice the other tree in the way at the beginning...

From the look of things it mostly just went sideways from the lean, which isn't like real difficult... up to about 90 deg you just need to manipulate the hold wood a little leaving it fat on the pull side...

but if you wan't to roll a tree like that (probably not as far though), snipe the face cut on the roll side, and cut the hold wood off of that side, doesn't work every time but its a start, though keep in mind you will loose some control by not having all the hold wood, and the roll will cause it to go off lead a little as well. In short a neat trick but kinda pointless and less then safe.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 5, 2017)

Seems like an awfully tall stump?

We can't leave stumps taller than 10" on most timber sales.


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## Gologit (Jun 6, 2017)

The siz-wheel is a good trick to know but I wouldn't depend on it to do what it's supposed to, not every time. Too many variables. If your cuts aren't exactly right you won't know it until the tree starts to fall. If you're falling against the lean or at an angle to the lean with a siz wheel it's good to leave plenty of room for error.
I've had better results with a kerf dutchman, a tapered hinge, and wedges but that's what I'm used to and the way I was taught.

As far as keeping everything in lead, don't worry so much about that. Keep a good lead if you possibly can but every once in awhile you're going to cross the lead. If you're production cutting, especially if you're busheling, the time you spend screwing around with one tree that doesn't want to fall in lead is time....and money...wasted. Flop that thing anywhere it wants to go as long as you can save it out. Move on to the next tree. Production rules.
Buy the skidder man a beer to make up for the tiny bit of extra work you've caused him.. If he's been in the woods any time at all he'll know that things don't always line up perfectly.


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## Westboastfaller (Jun 7, 2017)

mick05 said:


> When you line it up with the trees in the background it certainly is leaning not the way it fell.


I can't see your video but you cannot judge a lean off a video. It can be hard when you are there. If it was that easy then I'd take a few pictures at the end of the day and mark all the big ones (pusher trees) on my I-pad as to what way they are going at night. I wouldn't have to walk to them all and plan my next gas tank. May as well way-point all my bucked probuct so I don't have to memorize that too.
Serious, what you see is not what you get. Its only experience that will get you there. Trees are leaning up the hill and they will still suck down the hill in most cases.
Not so much cedar, or on the coast hills so much but lots of species of tree's will got to the 'east' but they appear to me often they are west so I go with the rule and not what it looks like. If you look up a hill at what appears to be a heavy leaner when you line it up with all the straight trees then when you are up there, stand directly above it were you should be and it may be in reality leaning the other way hard. Another trick is to look at how the stump/roots grow. May just be because its bucking wind in that direction all its life? I can figure it out by location easy enough. If you can't know for sure then you use your tells and play the odds.


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## Westboastfaller (Jun 7, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Seems like an awfully tall stump?
> 
> We can't leave stumps taller than 10" on most timber sales.


"Location Location Location" Well you have to have some standards. 10" sounds reasonable for small dia on flat ground. BC is 12" but it doesn't apply on the coast here or Alaska or would it be enforced on larger dia in the interior dry belts


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## chucker (Jun 7, 2017)

width equals height in most case's for stumps on flat ground and just above ground on the up side in hill country or 6" ....


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 8, 2017)

Westboastfaller said:


> "Location Location Location" Well you have to have some standards. 10" sounds reasonable for small dia on flat ground. BC is 12" but it doesn't apply on the coast here or Alaska or would it be enforced on larger dia in the interior dry belts



I generally don't see anything bigger than about 40" dbh. Most of what we cut is 8-20" dbh.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 8, 2017)

Westboastfaller said:


> I can't see your video but you cannot judge a lean off a video. It can be hard when you are there. If it was that easy then I'd take a few pictures at the end of the day and mark all the big ones (pusher trees) on my I-pad as to what way they are going at night. I wouldn't have to walk to them all and plan my next gas tank. May as well way-point all my bucked probuct so I don't have to memorize that too.
> Serious, what you see is not what you get. Its only experience that will get you there. Trees are leaning up the hill and they will still suck down the hill in most cases.
> Not so much cedar, or on the coast hills so much but lots of species of tree's will got to the 'east' but they appear to me often they are west so I go with the rule and not what it looks like. If you look up a hill at what appears to be a heavy leaner when you line it up with all the straight trees then when you are up there, stand directly above it were you should be and it may be in reality leaning the other way hard. Another trick is to look at how the stump/roots grow. May just be because its bucking wind in that direction all its life? I can figure it out by location easy enough. If you can't know for sure then you use your tells and play the odds.




Or you could just use a plumb bob or axe handle, damned sight better then prevailing winds, rotation of the earth, direction of the sun, height of gas spout, or what the village shaman has to say about it.

Gravity never lies.

As far as stump height, 12" is reasonable, if ya don't have crooked ground, or massive swell butts, or persistent root rot.

Doug Fir and alder are about the only trees out here I'm comfortable with cutting a 12" or less stump on, everything else gets squirrelly in the first foot or 2.

Also you start getting anything over 24" holding that 12" height starts getting ridiculous.

Had a forester come out to a job few months back, his first question was, why the high stumps? never mind that half of the timber on there was co doms or rotten assed cedar.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 8, 2017)

We cut with a feller buncher so it's pretty easy to cut flush fairly flush to the ground, or grind the stump down.

When I hand cut, I just crouch or kneel down, or if that is sketchy cut it flush after the tree is down.


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## madhatte (Jun 8, 2017)

Video has been taken private. Whose was it, does anybody remember?


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## steve easy (Jun 8, 2017)

madhatte said:


> Video has been taken private. Whose was it, does anybody remember?



Lumberjack felling


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## Tenderfoot (Jun 8, 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfSkDsgzQULAcl1QkEdmX7Q


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## madhatte (Jun 8, 2017)

Ah, thank you. This is a new channel to me.

Also: yep, that's a sizwell alright. In my experience that cut works pretty much every time except when there's a camera or a crowd. In those cases, it'll sit down on your bar and make you look silly.


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## Westboastfaller (Jun 8, 2017)

Unsubscribed! Haha
Holding cuts go with the undercut
Turning trees I turn the cut low decreasing tension and bounce the low side but never cut the low side as it increases the tension


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## madhatte (Jun 8, 2017)

Yeah, exactly, you want to nip the wood on the side it's gonna swing through, so that the holding wood pulls it around the rest of the way. Otherwise, what's it even there for?


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## Westboastfaller (Jun 9, 2017)

Its all really site or task specific isn't it. It all changes with species, specs and weigh/extended weight. As it appears on film anyway, I may have done a modified cut to hold it longer if there wasn't a tree in the way or a couple of very 'poor practice' faster tricks. You only have to look at the stump to see it spun to clear something. He came close to hanging it up. By rights it should have hung up. The top hinge broke first from high side leverage. fibers don't work that way even 'Downunder',,i can confidently say. 
Two things I ain't ever seen yet and that's a tree stand up by itself once the tension wood failed and pigs fly. I get the fact that the compression wood can't be attached in order to have a chance at spinning the tree. I just don,t have to cut it. that's not a problem. whats with the block face and the turning motion?? Am I missing something here? I do a similar cut but its strictly for tension holding when in motion. It would have to peel down first and then twist to serve a purpose or its the same as not using it...which will still work on some species or species at a certain age. In order to use it for turning then you need to free up three sides and isolate a good square post that can twist and bend with the tree for better results.
Unless there is another reason for it that someone can explain to me?


*EDIT


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