# What knot are you tying on before you drop those tops?



## ForTheArborist (Jul 27, 2011)

I've tried a few different knots on the big pieces over the past few years, but they all bind tightly into the wood and take too long to get undone when it's all on the ground. I bet they all bind like that.


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## MarquisTree (Jul 27, 2011)

Running bowline binding too tight? Try a half hitch on the wood before the bowline to lessen the bind.
I am sure this will raise some objections from the armchair arborists but the timber hitch works well and is very easy to untie...


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## Garden Of Eden (Jul 27, 2011)

Not sure what its called, but i wrap the rope around once, making sure the load goes opposite the rope back to the tree. After the wrap I running bowline it. Never had a problem untying it. The wife even done it the other day, with nails, and didn't have an issue. Might wanna post a picture, could be tying it wrong.


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## Chud (Jul 27, 2011)

ever tried using a sling and clipping rope on with a biner?


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## Isna (Jul 27, 2011)

We use what the french call the "noeud de bois" (wood knot): Mesnoeuds - Noeud de bois. Never fails and easy to untie, even after pulling with the winch or tractor.


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## MarquisTree (Jul 27, 2011)

Isna said:


> We use what the french call the "noeud de bois" (wood knot): Mesnoeuds - Noeud de bois. Never fails and easy to untie, even after pulling with the winch or tractor.


 
Looks like a timber hitch. But we don't have all the wraps bunched at the bite like in the picture


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## MarquisTree (Jul 27, 2011)

Timber Hitch & Variants


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## treemandan (Jul 27, 2011)

I recomend for you the balloon knot, its like a knot that's not a knot, almost like air.


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## wudpirat (Jul 27, 2011)

MarquisTree said:


> Looks like a timber hitch. But we don't have all the wraps bunched at the bite like in the picture


 
Looks like a timber hitch to me also.
I don't climb but use that hitch to drag, three to five wraps and away we go. I use the bowline if I need loop. 
The butterfly if I need a loop in the ruinning end, much better than an overhand in the doubled end which is almost imposible to untie without a fid.
There must be hundreds if not thousands of knots, pick your own poisen.

FREM


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## Isna (Jul 27, 2011)

MarquisTree said:


> Looks like a timber hitch. But we don't have all the wraps bunched at the bite like in the picture


 
Seems like the same. Actually, when I do it, it looks more like the drawing on the link you posted (I posted the first link I found on google). At least, now, I know how you call it in English! Thanks.
That knot has always worked for me and it is always easy and quick to untie. I use it to drop tops as well as when I need to pull a tree with a truck, winch or tractor. When dropping tops, I always put it above a branch, since it can slip as long as there is no tension on it. Once the weight pulls it tight, it does not bulge. I Usually wrap the other end of the rope around a strong branch (a few turns, depending on the weight of the top). That way, I can easily loosen the wrap and lower the top to the ground. 
Those are self-taught techniques (used for years), and I am always interested in learning other options.


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## MarquisTree (Jul 27, 2011)

treemandan said:


> I recomend for you the balloon knot, its like a knot that's not a knot, almost like air.


 
you really are one werid dude


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 27, 2011)

Why not a clove hitch with a half hitch safety? No problems.
Jeff


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## Garden Of Eden (Jul 27, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Why not a clove hitch with a half hitch safety? No problems.
> Jeff


 
Seems you can only use that on "those" tops, "these" tops need a different knot entirely. Lol.


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## capecodtree (Jul 27, 2011)

*topping knot*

clove hitch with half hitches or a running bowline


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## husabud (Jul 27, 2011)

treemandan said:


> I recomend for you the balloon knot, its like a knot that's not a knot, almost like air.


 
We got alot of those Balloon Knots around here! I was working for one today.


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## RacerX (Jul 27, 2011)

Chud said:


> ever tried using a sling and clipping rope on with a biner?



Yup, some guys call that knot-less rigging. Much faster than tying knots too.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 27, 2011)

RacerX said:


> Yup, some guys call that knot-less rigging. Much faster than tying knots too.


 
Now I know you are a Real Tree Guy! Some of the new new generation think of sling's and speedline and zips. Cant go wrong with a clove and a half. Good ta meet ya Racer.
Jeff

Sarcastic, anyway, what size sling are you gonna put on a piece at 1k and between 2 house's? Let's not (knot) confuse this thread. I really enjoy reading FTA!
Jeff


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## deevo (Jul 28, 2011)

half hitch and running bowline, easy for groundies to untie, very safe and reliable:msp_tongue:


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 29, 2011)

I didn't expect to get this much knowledge out of my question. I'll give all this some closer attention this weekend. It's late. I put 13 hours down today, and have to places to be tomorrow bright and early. 

.......give those knot names the research this weekend.


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## treemandan (Jul 29, 2011)

MarquisTree said:


> you really are one werid dude


 
Sorry, I guess you had to be there to really get why that is so funny. Its the same thing this other wannabe, like FTA, said a while ago but that guy was being serious at trying to be funny. I was just quoting what he said because it had the same bearing. Really, its the knot for FTA other than the one in his head.


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## treemandan (Jul 29, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> I didn't expect to get this much knowledge out of my question. I'll give all this some closer attention this weekend. It's late. I put 13 hours down today, and have to places to be tomorrow bright and early.
> 
> .......give those knot names the research this weekend.


 

13 hours of doing what exactly?


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## tree MDS (Jul 29, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> I've tried a few different knots on the big pieces over the past few years, but they all bind tightly into the wood and take too long to get undone when it's all on the ground. I bet they all bind like that.



This is why you're supposed to work for someone (that actually knows what they're doing, preferably) else before you even consider dreaming of running your own "show"! Good luck with that one and suffer it out...


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## tree MDS (Jul 29, 2011)

treemandan said:


> 13 hours of doing what exactly?



Being a jackwad fruitloop??


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## treemandan (Jul 29, 2011)

We ought to get these two together




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10-20-2009 07:33 PM#1




Plasmech



Arboristsite MVP 


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Join Date: Dec 2008Location: Aston, PA (19014)Posts: 1,173Credits: 36 




coined my first industry term today(!): "balloon knot" 



balloon knot: A lifeline knot that, while possibly bomb-proof, is so simple and minimal that it appears that there's "nothing but air" holding you up.

knot examples:

-anchor hitch
-clove hitch

usage examples:

1. "Hey man, you can stand at the base of YOUR tree all day long playing with your balloon knot, but I'm headed up mine on my double fisherman's loop."

2. "Dude, we're not paying you to stand there and stare at Frank's balloon know all day long, get to work!"

Oh yes I am THAT funny. Thank you. 


Last edited by Plasmech; 10-20-2009 at 08:56 PM. 

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When the going gets dirty, the smart go semi-chisel.


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## treemandan (Jul 29, 2011)

Hey Paul wared ya go?!


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## treemandan (Jul 29, 2011)

:msp_tongue::msp_tongue::msp_tongue::msp_tongue::msp_tongue::msp_tongue::msp__:



Remember THE PLASMECH!


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## tree MDS (Jul 29, 2011)

treemandan said:


> Hey Paul wared ya go?!


 
Still kicking for a little bit dano!


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 29, 2011)

Clove with a half, when I dont wanna use slings and biners. I have numerous slings and biners, its nice as I can set up another while they are running the lines back to me, makes for a pretty good pace, as soon as I get the ropes back, I just clip in the new set up and back down they go


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 29, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Clove with a half, when I dont wanna use slings and biners. I have numerous slings and biners, its nice as I can set up another while they are running the lines back to me, makes for a pretty good pace, as soon as I get the ropes back, I just clip in the new set up and back down they go


 
I think I'll count on this method from here out. There's no way climbers can mess up a sling n biner. Or is there? Have you ever had the sling slip off? Does it slide any before it catches?

But it's like all of the military leadership always says Keep It Simple Stupid K.I.S.S. Harder to forget. Easier to accomplish under pressure. Can't be simple, stupid biners and slings:confused2:


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## freeweight (Jul 29, 2011)

ive used running bowline ,and actually have used a anchor hitch with no problems at all ,witha small stopper knot 

clove hitch seems like it would work as well


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 29, 2011)

freeweight said:


> ive used running bowline ,and actually have used a anchor hitch with no problems at all ,witha small stopper knot
> 
> clove hitch seems like it would work as well


 
What kinda tons are you putting on them???

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 29, 2011)

FTA! I think you should go with a clove hitch with a half hitch safety. Got it? Good!
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 29, 2011)

And why is this?

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## limbwalker54 (Jul 29, 2011)

Mr. ForTheAction:

Please forgive me, I am in a bad mood. But, I will say this.....did you ever think about going to work for someone who knows what they are doing for a while?

I am not usually this way but......I just had to ask.....


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 29, 2011)

Yes, but I'm not likely to go in that direction. I am from the traditional way of climbimg the ladder in the tree industry: 

My own tradition. 

 I hope you can accept that. I think it offends a few people. So be it. Nobody was hurt  LOL


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 29, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> FTA! I think you should go with a clove hitch with a half hitch safety. Got it? Good!
> Jeff


 
Once again, why is this?


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 30, 2011)

OK, never mind,
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 30, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> OK, never mind,
> Jeff


 
You seemed intent on explaining your theory. Please, don't be coy. :msp_thumbup:


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 30, 2011)

I think those slings are going to slip off half of the time.

As matter of fact, I think I've been using a clove hitch. It was binding badly though.


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 30, 2011)

I have never had a sling slip off. It is all in the set up, and ya don't use the same thing every time, when running brush, I use loop slings, on the bigger stuff I use Tuflex eye to eye slings, when I am on the really big stuff, I go back to clove and half hitch, actually use the half hitch on alot of them,even with the slings and biners. Gotta know your gear and its capabilities. I never use slings on big wood butt hitching, that I cant let run,dynamic loading can make crazy things happen. Although I have never had a sling come off, I believe it could on a nice big chunk that comes to a sudden stop mid air, so I avoid using them.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 30, 2011)

Well I tie a falling bowline of course


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## ropensaddle (Jul 30, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> I have never had a sling slip off. It is all in the set up, and ya don't use the same thing every time, when running brush, I use loop slings, on the bigger stuff I use Tuflex eye to eye slings, when I am on the really big stuff, I go back to clove and half hitch, actually use the half hitch on alot of them,even with the slings and biners. Gotta know your gear and its capabilities. I never use slings on big wood butt hitching, that I cant let run,dynamic loading can make crazy things happen. Although I have never had a sling come off, I believe it could on a nice big chunk that comes to a sudden stop mid air, so I avoid using them.


 
I went knotless for limbs last year but the gear is not rated for shockload so I stay within its parameters. If im doing a big stick where dynamic loading can occur, I use a marline or two and bowline it will also cushion the load a bit.


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 30, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> I went knotless for limbs last year but the gear is not rated for shockload so I stay within its parameters. If im doing a big stick where dynamic loading can occur, I use a marline or two and bowline it will also cushion the load a bit.


 
Not sure where you get yours. I found that if I go to rock climbing stores like Active Endeavors, they usually have nicer ones that are rated higher and are cheaper, plus they sell the same petzl and black diamond biners for half the price of sherrill. Just a FYI


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## Treepedo (Jul 30, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Not sure where you get yours. I found that if I go to rock climbing stores like Active Endeavors, they usually have nicer ones that are rated higher and are cheaper, plus they sell the same petzl and black diamond biners for half the price of sherrill. Just a FYI


 
I use tubular nylon endless loops formed with a Beer Knot for anything under a couple hundred pounds. 

Clove hitch even with 1/2 hitch scares me because I had one roll out when it bounced on the rope and went for a free fall, a limb stub caught the roof and minor puncture and went spinning breaking a small pane of glass on the storm window. 
i am an official window glazer now.:msp_wink:


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## ropensaddle (Jul 30, 2011)

Treepedo said:


> I use tubular nylon endless loops formed with a Beer Knot for anything under a couple hundred pounds.
> 
> Clove hitch even with 1/2 hitch scares me because I had one roll out when it bounced on the rope and went for a free fall, a limb stub caught the roof and minor puncture and went spinning breaking a small pane of glass on the storm window.
> i am an official window glazer now.:msp_wink:


 
I had one roll out years ago too, so if i use one now its double half hitched but i use the bowline almost exclusive combined with a couple marlines for the slick limbs.


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## treemandan (Jul 31, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Not sure where you get yours. I found that if I go to rock climbing stores like Active Endeavors, they usually have nicer ones that are rated higher and are cheaper, plus they sell the same petzl and black diamond biners for half the price of sherrill. Just a FYI


 
Move here and its the other way around. They got crap at the outfitters and if they got anything good its just as exspensive and hokey pokey.


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## TreeClimber57 (Jul 31, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Not sure where you get yours. I found that if I go to rock climbing stores like Active Endeavors, they usually have nicer ones that are rated higher and are cheaper, plus they sell the same petzl and black diamond biners for half the price of sherrill. Just a FYI


 
They are likely good climbing gear; but not rigging. Are they shock rated; and what is rating.. anything in the 70+kN range?


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## TreeClimber57 (Jul 31, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Well I tie a falling bowline of course


 
You have to teach us someday Rope.. :hmm3grin2orange:

Maybe a video or couple of pics.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jul 31, 2011)

I like the Beer Knot for flat webbing, its much stronger than the Water Knot but not as bombproof as the Whiskey Knot. 

Anyhoo, F.T.A. I will let you in on a little secret for lowering big wood on yer rigging line: Go Granny Knot or go home!

Personally I use Running Bowline for the small stuff, add a half hitch as I get to the bigger limbs and then as many as 2 to 3 HH with the RBL for the really big chit. All False Crotch and Porty keeps my ropes strong and purty and long lived and my wallet fat!:msp_thumbup:


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 1, 2011)

Slvrmple72 said:


> I like the Beer Knot for flat webbing, its much stronger than the Water Knot but not as bombproof as the Whiskey Knot.
> 
> Anyhoo, F.T.A. I will let you in on a little secret for lowering big wood on yer rigging line: Go Granny Knot or go home!
> 
> Personally I use Running Bowline for the small stuff, add a half hitch as I get to the bigger limbs and then as many as 2 to 3 HH with the RBL for the really big chit. All False Crotch and Porty keeps my ropes strong and purty and long lived and my wallet fat!:msp_thumbup:


 

And here I was just getting down my pappy knot. :bang:


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 1, 2011)

TreeClimber57 said:


> They are likely good climbing gear; but not rigging. Are they shock rated; and what is rating.. anything in the 70+kN range?


 

Yur right, no big rigging stuff, but good climbing biners, same exact petzl ones they carry at vermeer, the loop slings are rated abit higher, like 5kn higher. The biners cost 12.95 at AE, as opposed to 21.

I have some 50 plus kn stuff, no stuff thats 70 (biners or links anyway) whatcha got that is that high? I had that gold rigging triple lock from sherrill, cost like 40 bucks, it was 54kn, I think, but was stolen pretty quick, had some big O guys give me a hand on a make safe, pretty sure it walked away with them. 

@ The DAN- I was thinking it would be that way too, went in their looking for a cool ski jacket for the boy, looked over, seen this wall of gear, had to look! was surprised to see their prices, walked out with a couple bags off stuff, plus they carry all kinds of neat little gadgets for gear storage. They are building a brand new store, so I am sure the prices will go up.


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## TreeClimber57 (Aug 1, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> I have some 50 plus kn stuff, no stuff thats 70 (biners or links anyway) whatcha got that is that high?



Bailey's - Omega Pacific Steel Side Swing Gate Carabiner - Screw Lock


Omega Pacific Steel Side Swing Gate Carabiner - Screw Lock

Large D shape for great handling, huge gate opening and massive strength! At a rated strength of 72kN, it's one of the strongest carabiners in the world! Heat-treated, half-load tested (over 8000 lbf.) and built to exacting standards, the1/2" Large D is one very fine steel carabiner. This unit not only exceeds NFPA 1983.01 standards, it also exceeds ANSI/OSHA strength requirements. Where required it also meets NFPA 1983.01 construction standards. It has UL Classification G


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 2, 2011)

looks just like the one I had, i have others that are in the 50's, but that one was nice, ordering a couple of those 70's, good price, thanx!


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## Rftreeman (Aug 3, 2011)

I been doing this stuff for 24 years and have yet to see a bowline get so tight that i couldn't untie it so with that said I use the bowline and nothing else, have been know to take a wrap then tie the running bowline...


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## treevet (Aug 3, 2011)

Rftreeman said:


> I been doing this stuff for 24 years and have yet to see a bowline get so tight that i couldn't untie it so with that said I use the bowline and nothing else, have been know to take a wrap then tie the running bowline...


 
Agreed, people just trying to look intellectual here to no avail. I might tie a timber hitch with a safety once in a while when it doesn't have to be sent up like r bowline. Easier to undo for gm than bowline.


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## freeweight (Aug 4, 2011)

how do u tie a ,"rope" ....whats a knot as u say....... rolls eyes

anybody trust a cinching knot with there life on your biner but not to drop a top .....really? 

now i did make a mistake with working with the people i did that day , um they ...uh ...hmmm this is tough ,had a helluva time untie'n a bowline ......

and i wasnt gonna try a dbl fish .....


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## freeweight (Aug 4, 2011)

why isnt that biner not for life support


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## tree MDS (Aug 4, 2011)

treevet said:


> Agreed, people just trying to look intellectual here to no avail. I might tie a timber hitch with a safety once in a while when it doesn't have to be sent up like r bowline. Easier to undo for gm than bowline.




I agree that some here try to appear intellectual to no avail (lol), but why is it so hard for poor Kyle to untie your bowlines? And wtf is a timber hitch with a 'safety'??


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## treevet (Aug 4, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> but why is it so hard for poor Kyle to untie your bowlines?


 :msp_confused:



> And wtf is a timber hitch with a 'safety'??



I would answer anybody else, but a deuschbag like you's gonna have to send me a 20 spot for a lesson.


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## tree MDS (Aug 4, 2011)

treevet said:


> :msp_confused:
> 
> 
> 
> I would answer anybody else, but a deuschbag like you's gonna have to send me a 20 spot for a lesson.


 
I'm guessing its like I seen a couple of the Lewis greenhorns that I've tried out over the years tie it, with the half hitch at the tail. Its because they're green, and don't trust a well proven knot! 

But please, where do I send the $20 spot, oh great one??


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 4, 2011)

Lol i just read this crap on my phone. Ooooooh what a heart ache, ya filthy pros. Lol

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## jefflovstrom (Aug 4, 2011)

:bang:


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 4, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> :bang:


 
Oh geeze, mr. woveystrom. I mistook all of that as being towards me. I only glanced the bottom of the thread about handing out info for $20. Right away I thought that was for me. opcorn:


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## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 5, 2011)

Running DBY, but preceded by Half Hitch (Marl if tricky).
Favor Slip-Knot method for tying DBY.

Running Bowline, like Timber, should pull across / perpendicular to spar; not along it's length. So if lowering, i think these should only properly be used if spar floats horizontal in balance.

A rope can only exert force on it's inline axis. So is best not to pull at angle. Running Bowline goes around spar and pulls perpendicular to spar, Standing Tension Part is inline with back of Bowline eye seating into spar. Pull along length of spar, and the pull of Standing, is not inline with the 'stop' on that pull at back of spar.

Preceding with Half Hitch and pull along length of spar, and most force taken by Half Hitch (reducing tighteni8ng of final Bowline, can have several Half Hitches as separate grabs on spar); and Standing Tension Part pull into Half Hitch is inline with the 'stop' of the other end of Half Hitch exiting that part of lacing. This inline section corrects the 'fault' of the primary / initial pull , pulling at angle on device (rope) that only resists / supports force on inline axis properly.

Ashley Book of Knots lists pulls inline and perpendicular to spar / rail as 2 different chapters of knots; and the above patterns of inline proper pulls can be seen.

A Marl is different from Half Hitch, in that you can slip Marl off end of spar, and you have a basic OverHand knot form. Slip Half Hitch off end of spar and it just melts out leaving 'straight' line. A Marl will pass less force thru it to next in chain, but takes more time, and harder to pre-tighten to set etc. The final Running bowline would still pull at angle, leveraging. But, without preceding with Half, pull on Bowline is leveraged per initiating pull, but it is lessened with Half preceding so is not leveraged per initiating pull.

For smaller stuff, i have Dyneema loops + Foins, sometimes precede by Half Hitch. Favor, seat Running Bowline, Timber, Halfs and Marls etc. at imperfections, swells, tapers, crotches etc. that will purposefully ad to locking.


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## beowulf343 (Aug 5, 2011)

Spyder, Wow, good to see a post from you! First time I've seen one of your posts in a long time-always excellent reading.


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 5, 2011)

It's settled now. Clove + Half Hitch or Running Bowline are the knots of choice for tree top drops. Thanks, pros. You know what they say. If you want to go somewhere, it's best to find someone that's already been there.

I haven't used the running bowline before, but I've been using the clove hitch and two half hitches for a while. This knot is reliable up to a certain amount of weight. Then it binds to hard to be worth playing with, thus the reason I brought up the original question in the thread. 

Trying the "runner" on some Eucs today.


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 5, 2011)

A half hitch before the running bowline.....that's the one to drop a ton on. Yip :msp_thumbup:


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## BigUglySquirrel (Aug 14, 2011)

*My 2 cents*

I use a half hitch and slippery running bowline most of the time. Groundies love it. Sometimes I use the timberhitch with a half to back it up. Tie, set and dress properly and be certain to pull everything tight and I've never had any issues.


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 27, 2011)

Jeff, is that half hitch you're using back over the log, or is it just directly onto line? If it is, I don't like it. 

I'm thinking clove hitch next to a half hitch both on the log, and then tie the tale back to the rope with a half hitch. Wadaya think?


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## TimberMcPherson (Nov 27, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> Yes, but I'm not likely to go in that direction. I am from the traditional way of climbimg the ladder in the tree industry:
> 
> My own tradition.
> 
> I hope you can accept that. I think it offends a few people. So be it. Nobody was hurt  LOL





Nobody hurt yet. Its great you make your own ladder, its a shame someone else might be under it when it crashes down because you hadnt even seen what a proper one looks like.

If you get the same advice, time and time again (have you counted how many times yet?) about learning this stuff properly from professionals that have forgotten more than you know (and its pretty obvious that your learning WAY to slow if at this stage your asking about rigging tops this far into your learn-treework-from-the-internet game) you have to start questioning if its arrogance or ignorance which is holding you back more.

Hire a properly experienced arborist for 6 months or work for someone else. It will MAKE you. It will make your business far more productive, it will make your clients better off, you will make more money faster and there any drawbacks are negligible. 

Im a nag but I want you to be an arborist, and a great one. What are you trying to do?


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 27, 2011)

You're trying to get me fired up, Timbo. :spam:


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## superjunior (Nov 27, 2011)

it doesn't get much easier then a running bowline above a half hitch. especially when blocking a hefty chunk over - the half hitch just above the cut lessens the distance of the fall between the chunk and block. 
easy to tie/untie, never binds and very safe


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 27, 2011)

BigUglySquirrel said:


> I use a half hitch and slippery running bowline most of the time. Groundies love it. Sometimes I use the timberhitch with a half to back it up. Tie, set and dress properly and be certain to pull everything tight and I've never had any issues.



Actually, that's sweet knot. Probably just going to run with that one.


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 27, 2011)

superjunior said:


> it doesn't get much easier then a running bowline above a half hitch. especially when blocking a hefty chunk over - the half hitch just above the cut lessens the distance of the fall between the chunk and block.
> easy to tie/untie, never binds and very safe



No doubt about that. I can't see any way to keep the clove hitch from over binding on itself in the heavy drops.


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## tree MDS (Nov 27, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> No doubt about that. I can't see any way to keep the clove hitch from over binding on itself in the heavy drops.



It's hilarious to me how lost you still are after all this time! Hahaha. Timber gave you some pretty good advice.. I'm thinking you're not clever enough to learn off the internet... not saying it can't be done.


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 27, 2011)

I like to use what some here would call a "hatchet" knot its so tight and generally ####ed up and just #### poor than when it reaches the ground they use a hatchet to untie it , but that a Jersey thing not too many guys roll like me ....


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## TimberJack_7 (Nov 27, 2011)

Forum: Commercial Tree Care and Climbing
This Forum is for experienced tree climbers. Ask beginner or new to the business questions in the Arborist 101 Forum.


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 27, 2011)

TimberJack_7 said:


> Forum: Commercial Tree Care and Climbing
> This Forum is for experienced tree climbers. Ask beginner or new to the business questions in the Arborist 101 Forum.



FTA is no novice ... He is as professional as AA and he is welcome to ask as many incredibly obtuse questions as wikipedia can't answer


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 27, 2011)

Stupid thread! 
Jeff


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 27, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Stupid thread!
> Jeff



You should start a thread on how to feed a turtle and take a picture of a parking lot .... Riveting ......


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 27, 2011)

"Ya, boss. You tie 'em on nice and tight, and I cut 'em off smite and right." 


Hey, I'm OK on the original topic here. I spent 8 hours last night in the video library, and ran across a few of Reg's vids. He must have somehow demonstrated how he puts a heavy load in a bind. I was trying to tie what he ties them with during this past summer, but somehow I was tying a Jersey Hatchet Knot.....proudly like most men warrking in trees these days. :msp_unsure: Then there is the Ruming Bowline and Half-Hintch. I can see that is a sweet not that I over looked before. 

I'm goob to go, gentlemen, and done with this thread. 

Keep pumpin' this AS thing. :msp_wub:


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## lone wolf (Nov 27, 2011)

WTF


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 27, 2011)

Alrigth, cut the crap. I'm not going to get mad at anyone for being kypin' jerks, and you know you are when you are. I have no doubt in my mind. You got a problem, then don't communicate it to me. Send it to your buddy via PM. This show ends right now for anyone that thinks I'm going to play argumentative water boy with random people on any of these websites any more. 

End of thread. I have my answers. opcorn:


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## Scrat (Nov 27, 2011)

husabud said:


> We got alot of those Balloon Knots around here! I was working for one today.



Watch out with those 'Balloon Knots' I heard they can really come un-done at the wrong time with some fiber, guess they mean wood fiber right?


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## treefaller25 (Nov 27, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> I've tried a few different knots on the big pieces over the past few years, but they all bind tightly into the wood and take too long to get undone when it's all on the ground. I bet they all bind like that.


If you dont know the knot tie:kilt: alot! good luck sometimes I'll slip an old beanier in the bend that help's.


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## beastmaster (Nov 27, 2011)

I am just checking out this thread, it has seemed to have deteriorated a little. Pretty basic stuff and everyone more or less using half hitches, and running bowlines, and the knife knot everyone in a while(same as the hatchet knot) I don't know if their unique to So. Cal. and downunder, but lemon eucs (Corymbia citriodora) sometimes present a special challenge. They are slick as all get out, and have hardly any lower growth. They are escape artist and will easily slip a half hitch and bowline. I have used a half hitch with a clove hitch, pulled really tight, or a bowline with a bite and a half hitch. I have notched the piece to hold the rope on. It's a heavy dense wood also that only adds to the difficulty. If tied right with both raps of the rope pulled apart so it binds, both the clove and bowline with a bite seem to work well in this situation. Bindings good some times.


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## ropensaddle (Nov 27, 2011)

beastmaster said:


> I am just checking out this thread, it has seemed to have deteriorated a little. Pretty basic stuff and everyone more or less using half hitches, and running bowlines, and the knife knot everyone in a while(same as the hatchet knot) I don't know if their unique to So. Cal. and downunder, but lemon eucs (Corymbia citriodora) sometimes present a special challenge. They are slick as all get out, and have hardly any lower growth. They are escape artist and will easily slip a half hitch and bowline. I have used a half hitch with a clove hitch, pulled really tight, or a bowline with a bite and a half hitch. I have notched the piece to hold the rope on. It's a heavy dense wood also that only adds to the difficulty. If tied right with both raps of the rope pulled apart so it binds, both the clove and bowline with a bite seem to work well in this situation. Bindings good some times.



Yup the slick stuff gets more marlines here its slickamore and slickgum lol any way watcha top knot :hmm3grin2orange:


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 27, 2011)

beastmaster said:


> I am just checking out this thread, it has seemed to have deteriorated a little. Pretty basic stuff and everyone more or less using half hitches, and running bowlines, and the knife knot everyone in a while(same as the hatchet knot) I don't know if their unique to So. Cal. and downunder, but lemon eucs (Corymbia citriodora) sometimes present a special challenge. They are slick as all get out, and have hardly any lower growth. They are escape artist and will easily slip a half hitch and bowline. I have used a half hitch with a clove hitch, pulled really tight, or a bowline with a bite and a half hitch. I have notched the piece to hold the rope on. It's a heavy dense wood also that only adds to the difficulty. If tied right with both raps of the rope pulled apart so it binds, both the clove and bowline with a bite seem to work well in this situation. Bindings good some times.



And if your chunking and rigging down trunk wood, the bark breaks loose and then you got a slick and slimy log. 
Jeff


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## TimberMcPherson (Nov 28, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> You're trying to get me fired up, Timbo. :spam:



No, I would like to see you make some calm, cool and smart decisions.

Im trying to get you to have a long and profitable life, Im trying to give you a head start, Im trying to save your family and friends some grief. 

Its the best advice for you that I have, and Im delivering it in a way that hope gets through.


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## derwoodii (Nov 28, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> I've tried a few different knots on the big pieces over the past few years, but they all bind tightly into the wood and take too long to get undone when it's all on the ground. I bet they all bind like that.



Not all bind n snitch up try this http://www.arboristsite.com/arborist-101/110861.htm its even stronger than a bowline.


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## Customcuts (Mar 21, 2012)

*bowline biner*



husabud said:


> We got alot of those Balloon Knots around here! I was working for one today.



I use a bowline with a biner, after load is on the ground, simply unhook the Biner and on to the next one.. Stay safe out there.....


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## flushcut (Mar 22, 2012)

I never thought there could possibly be 7 pages of discussion on a running bowline.


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## ropensaddle (Mar 22, 2012)

flushcut said:


> I never thought there could possibly be 7 pages of discussion on a running bowline.



well yeah so now the dragging bowline can be discussed or the two man sheet bend


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## ozzy42 (Mar 22, 2012)

ropensaddle said:


> or the two man sheet bend



Hey now.This is a family friendly site. 2men ,bending sheets ,don't sound like anything we want to here about here .:hmm3grin2orange:


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 22, 2012)

ozzy42 said:


> Hey now.This is a family friendly site. 2men ,bending sheets ,don't sound like anything we want to here about here .:hmm3grin2orange:



Yup, no talking about sheep!
Jeff :msp_w00t:


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 25, 2012)

I use a Marline hitch and a Clove hitch or a Half hitch and Running Bowline. Videos of both on youtube.


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