# My son and I want to hunt Coyotes, looking for info about getting started?



## NYH1

My 8 year old son and I want to start hunting Coyotes when deer season is over. We have never hunted them before. We're on an EXTREME budget. Basically all we have are the firearms to do it. We have a Remington 700 223 Rem. that's amazingly accurate. We also have a few different shotguns. We'd prefer to hunt them during the day with our rifle instead of at night with a shotgun.

Like I said, we don't have to much money to spend on equipment and gear. What do we "NEED TO HAVE" to get started? We're in Central New York if that matters.

Thanks, NYH!


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## hanniedog

That 223 should do the job just fine. As to hunting advise persistence and patience is required. Never hunted them myself but have been told they are very cagey critters.


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## RacerX

Yup they can be elusive. Of all of the hours I've spent in the woods the only time that I've seen them in the woods is while I was turkey hunting. Seems like the turkey call made them think that they had an easy meal.


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## 2000ssm6

Yup, .223 will be fine. I think most varmit hunters use those and .22-250. We can't shoot centerfire on the ground here so me and a bud are thinking of a .17hmr since they are rimfire. There was a good thread here I was talking to some guys in, helped me out alot. You might could do well with a mouth call but you will need some type of call, mouth calls are much cheaper that the electronic types. As most things, practice makes perfect. Let me find the thread......having trouble......

Here she is: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=100035


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## deeker

We use a .220 Swift for 'yotes at longer rangers. A .257 Roberts or a 6mm Remington when it is windy.

And for shorter ranges, under 40 yards T steel in a 3inch or 3.5 inch 12 gauge. Some 'yotes are shot a lot closer than 40 yards.

My father in law shot one with a recurve bow at about nine yards.
Instead of a shotgun at short range...a .22LR with CCI stingers work, for under 80 yards.

The last two animals on the planet will be a coyote figuring out how to eat the other one.

Calling, from a good area. Approach so you face the wind...remain hidden for fifteen to twenty minutes BEFORE you start to call. Cover scent, rabbit scent or coyote urine will help mask your scent.

Lots of tricks to it. And extremely fun to hunt.


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## Ol' Brian

Your .223 will be just fine, you'll have no problems out to about 250 yards. I shoot a 22-250, but I've never got one yet with the shotgun! That's my "TO DO" thing this winter. 

Get some mouth calls, and practice with them. A great DVD on coyote hunting is anything by Randy Anderson... but I especially recommend the first in his series of coyote hunting DVD's, "Calling All Coyotes". All of his DVD's are good, no, make that GREAT, but I think, as with most things, the first is the best. Entertaining and informative. I had very little success until I got RA's videos and started using some of his methods.

Get a couple of different distress calls, cottontail rabbit/jackrabbit, fawn bleat call, and a howler.

I like the open reed calls over the closed reed, but they all work... it just depends on what sounds good to the dogs on the day you're calling 'em. I've got an electronic caller also, but I've never called anything in with it yet... all of mine have come on mouth blown calls.

The main thing is, don't get discouraged when or if you don't call anything right away... they will come. What a thrill when you call your first one in!!


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## dingeryote

It's nothing but fun once ya get your first yodeldog.

The .223 is about perfect, and a 12ga can come in handy in the daytime as well.

On the cheap, you can use your deer hunting Fawn or Doe bleat calls to mimic deer in distress in late winter when the snow is deep.

Just remember to keep an eye upwind as well as down wind.
They will try to get your scent down wind, and locate your calling position by sound and then use cover on the approach. If they have ANY suspicion they will come in and try to eyeball you from upwind if there are more than one, in an attempt to flush thier quarry into an ambush in the deep snow.

If you turkey hunt and use mouth calls, a hen yelp will do an amazing job as a Rabbit screamer distress call. Just blow it like ya did when you first tried using a mouth call LOL!! You'll get the sound real quick.

Decoys can be made outta just about any small stuffed animal toy.

Pack light so you can move without sounding like a frieght train, but pack a comfy seat that will get your but off the ground. 'Yotes get tone lock on ANY movement when they are coming in on a call and you'll never see them.
Set up comfy, wait 20 Min. or so, Call for 2-3 Min. and then sit still for half an hour before calling again. 

I use the two call rule. If nothing comes in in an hour, I'll slink back out against the wind 300yds or so and set up again. Everything downwind already knows I'm there.

Listen for Turkeys raising caine. If a 'Yote is around, they come unglued! LOL!
Setting up downwind of agitated Turkeys in the spring and early summer is always a good bet.

Good luck to Ya!!
You're in for a bunch of fun!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## swift4me

*You'll be hooked*

I got into it about 6 years ago in Alberta and Northern California, then got the Randy Anderson video, and it was all over. Now I live in France, so it is red foxes instead. Calling predators is a real hoot and there is alot to learn.

Face mask, gloves, two or three mouth calls and you're good to go. In Alberta we could shoot 50% of them with a shotgun during the daytime in the alfalfa fields sitting in front of the bales, but I'm guessing the coyotes you'll see in New York are more wary than that. I never use cover scent just because I'm lazy, but alot of pros don't either. Make your setup anticipating that they will circle downwind and leave yourself a shooting lane in that direction. Coyotes almost ALWAYS want to know what they're walking into, whether it be a human, a big cat or whatever.

You can call Dan Thompson, he has a website, or Rick Paillette (sp), aka the Verminator,(website also), and order calls directly. At most big box sports stores you can find some classics like the Tally Ho, Critter -Call and the Sceery rabbit calls. I imagine you've got cottontails around, but get a bird distress call as well, and you'll start to call in foxes and bobcats if they're around. The predator is hard wired to respond, so as was said, just be patient, try different spots and they will come.

There is an ethical thing you'll run into though and it causes alot of debate among predator hunters.... is hunting during the breeding season. If you kill one of the parents, there will likely be a den of pups that will die a miserable slow death, and in addition, by killing the dominant ##### in a bredding pair, you can end up having more #####es bred in the same season, actually increasing the population. Like I said, there are different opinions on this, so be aware if you start posting on websites. 

You can find good info on the web, but like was said by others, just go do it and the learning will happen.

Be safe.

Pete


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## lisapizza

http://www.varmintal.com/ahunt.htm


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## swift4me

*Varmint Al*

Funny that someone from PA posted about him as I used to live 40 minutes from him. I never met him, but read alot of his site. He is a very good predator hunter and interesting in other ways to boot.

A good customer of mine owns half of the island next to where he lives and is turning it into a better waterfowl area, so I suggested keeping an eye on the coyotes. The first time I went out there with a hunting friend, it was like Alberta. The first set brought 5 running, and the third set brought the same. Nobody had called there for a long time.

Like I said before though, there is a reason they call him "Wiley Coyote" once he has heard a few fake rabbits.

Good luck.

Pete


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## RVALUE

dingeryote said:


> It's nothing but fun once ya get your first yodeldog.
> 
> The .223 is about perfect, and a 12ga can come in handy in the daytime as well.
> 
> On the cheap, you can use your deer hunting Fawn or Doe bleat calls to mimic deer in distress in late winter when the snow is deep.
> 
> Just remember to keep an eye upwind as well as down wind.
> They will try to get your scent down wind, and locate your calling position by sound and then use cover on the approach. If they have ANY suspicion they will come in and try to eyeball you from upwind if there are more than one, in an attempt to flush thier quarry into an ambush in the deep snow.
> 
> If you turkey hunt and use mouth calls, a hen yelp will do an amazing job as a Rabbit screamer distress call. Just blow it like ya did when you first tried using a mouth call LOL!! You'll get the sound real quick.
> 
> Decoys can be made outta just about any small stuffed animal toy.
> 
> Pack light so you can move without sounding like a frieght train, but pack a comfy seat that will get your but off the ground. 'Yotes get tone lock on ANY movement when they are coming in on a call and you'll never see them.
> Set up comfy, wait 20 Min. or so, Call for 2-3 Min. and then sit still for half an hour before calling again.
> 
> I use the two call rule. If nothing comes in in an hour, I'll slink back out against the wind 300yds or so and set up again. Everything downwind already knows I'm there.
> 
> Listen for Turkeys raising caine. If a 'Yote is around, they come unglued! LOL!
> Setting up downwind of agitated Turkeys in the spring and early summer is always a good bet.
> 
> Good luck to Ya!!
> You're in for a bunch of fun!
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote







Decoys can be made outta just about any small stuffed animal toy


They are mimicking an animal, not the coyote. (bait)


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## Ghillie

lisapizza said:


> http://www.varmintal.com/ahunt.htm



:agree2: he used to show how to make your own electric caller cheap and he had sound files on his site too.

a lot of good info to read and read again.


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## Ghillie

my first one and it was ablast. called him in with mouth calls


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## alleyyooper

I use a 220 swift, 243 Winney, 12 ga. shot gun or any thing handy from a 54 cal muzzle loader to a 300 win mag. I don't sell the fur so I don't care how big the hole is just that they are dead.




Lots of willing people to help out a newbe here. Also a home made Ecaller thread cost just a tad over $50.00 to bild last spring.

good advice on useing a shot gun too.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php


 Al


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## NYH1

Thanks for the info guys!


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## hanniedog

Saw one of them yesterday crossing neighbors field would have needed a 50 cal sniper rifle to get it. Was about 1/4 mile away and just a tad bit breezy. As the "Duke" said in the movie Undefeated " windage and elevation Miss Langdon, windage and elevation."


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## ghitch75

we use calls with guts from a slaughter house.....calls get them in to the gut piles.....then let 3 to 5 get fightin' over the guts then cut loose with the semi-auto's!!!!...to much fun!!!


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## lisapizza

*My Coyote Gun*

I have used this gun to hunt Coyote in Pa. & N.Y., It allows me the best of both worlds (shotgun/rifle), and the mobility I need. Make the shot count cause most times you`ll only get one with this set up. Peace


http://www.impactguns.com/store/SS-78242.html


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## Ghillie

lisapizza said:


> I have used this gun to hunt Coyote in Pa. & N.Y., It allows me the best of both worlds (shotgun/rifle), and the mobility I need. Make the shot count cause most times you`ll only get one with this set up. Peace
> 
> 
> http://www.impactguns.com/store/SS-78242.html



i have used the 24v, an older model that is .222/ 20 ga.


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## Ol' Brian

Ghillie said:


> i have used the 24v, an older model that is .222/ 20 ga.



I've always thought about getting a 24... but just never could "pull the trigger"... just something about that "do not fire shotgun barrel with scope installed" limitation...

I've got an old 24 that I inherited from my FIL, but it's just a .22LR over .410 bore... not much use for coyotes


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## Ghillie

xlr82v2 said:


> I've always thought about getting a 24... but just never could "pull the trigger"... just something about that "do not fire shotgun barrel with scope installed" limitation...
> 
> I've got an old 24 that I inherited from my FIL, but it's just a .22LR over .410 bore... not much use for coyotes



with a shotgun scope with greater eye relief, they shoot great . the .222 is an inherently accurate catridge, just wish it held more powder.


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## SAW

Thanks for all the Information


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## spencerhenry

i average about 10 coyotes a year. i have killed them with 223, 22-250, 223 wssm, 270, 308, and 22 lr. my vote if you have only one gun would be the 22-250, it has the power for the long shots, shoots flat, overall is a very flexible caliber. however with that said, my favorite coyote rifle is a 24" barreled ar15 with a 12x leupold. the 223 over about 300yds doesnt put them down quickly. i have killed a few over 300 yds with it, my last at 456 yds. i held high, let it rip, and saw him move like he was hit, but he ran off in the sage. i was just about to chalk it up to a miss when i found him about 50 yds from where he was when i shot. under 200 yds i have rarely had a coyote hit in the chest go anywhere, but it has happened.
my favorite mouth call is an olt. they are old wood calls, but i have had 2 that really sound great. now i have a foxpro scorpion, but just last week when the batteries died, i got out the olt and called in the 3rd of the day. if there are many dogs in the area, or if they arent hunted hard, just about any call will work. it only becomes an issue when they get call shy, or they arent hungry. lately i have had great luck with coyote pup distress sounds.


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## KD57

Coyote hunting is worse than CAD, once you get one coming to the call and shoot it, you will never be the same again. It really gets in your blood. Good luck, hope ya'll do well.


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## NYH1

Thanks a lot guys.


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## 2000ssm6

KD57 said:


> Coyote hunting is worse than CAD, once you get one coming to the call and shoot it, you will never be the same again. It really gets in your blood. Good luck, hope ya'll do well.



Can you tell me more about that call?


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## lisapizza

Looks like a FOXPRO Digital Caller, I use Johnny Stewart - PM-4 Preymaster it works great @ a fair price. Check out this site, http://www.allpredatorcalls.com/ , but be advised to open it may cost you money, lots of things to buy. peace


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## KD57

It is a Fox Pro, expensive as heck, but you will eventually have one if you stay in the calling biz very long. They are very good calls, but others on the market are good as well. 
I have an older model, and it has about 50 sounds on it, and I use a remote control w/ it. Having a remote and electronic caller lets you get the source of the sound away from you so the yote will have his attention on the call rather than directly on you.


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## mdavlee

I've been looking at the foxpro that costs around $200. Is that a good caller for the money. I've only used mouth calls before with so-so luck. The only ones I've shot was while deer hunting. And yes it's very addicting I'm probably going today to buy a new call and 22-250.


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## KD57

Yeah, FoxPro has come out w/ an entry level caller not near as expensive as the high end ones, and a very good call. At the time, mine was 532.00, but they may have come down in price some now.
The yote doesn't care if the sound comes from a 10.00 call, or a 500.00 call, if it's appealing, he will come. The expensive ones just give you more options such as custom downloading of sounds, external speaker and auxillery output jacks, remote, etc....for example, on mine I have a decoy that hooks into the call, and I can also run it w/ the remote.


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## Wife'nHubby

Come on over to my house and set up where you can see our pear trees. The dummy coyotes stand on their hind legs and jump up to grab the pears! Oh, yeah, this is suburbia, where you can't fire a gun and local authorities say we don't have any coyotes.

Shari


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## ghitch75

Wife'nHubby said:


> Come on over to my house and set up where you can see our pear trees. The dummy coyotes stand on their hind legs and jump up to grab the pears! Oh, yeah, this is suburbia, where you can't fire a gun and local authorities say we don't have any coyotes.
> 
> Shari



get the bow out and stick 1!!!!...lol


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## Wife'nHubby

When our sons were still living at home shooting with a bow was greatly discussed. Problem is the coyotes get the pears when snow is on the ground. Shooting with an arrow would work but the blood trail when dragging the carcass away would be a dead give away to PETA neighbors.

There was an instance right after we moved in: Using the facilities of our 1/2 bathroom I was sitting there contemplating all the interior painting we needed to do when all of a sudden a coyote let loose with a howl about 8' outside the open bathroom window! Ya know, when sitting on a toilet a certain part of your body is down and when you are surprised like this your feet jerk up off the ground and you automatically 'duck' - perfect position to fall inside a toilet.... not sayin' it did happen .... but could of happened... 

Shari


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## ghitch75

look into a Gamo brand air rifle....they shoot as hard or harder than a 22lr without the noise....a good head shot and there is no blood trail.....


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## RCR 3 EVER

*Suburbs of Detroit-coyote havens*

Coyotes are killing dogs wholesale particulary in Grosse Pt woods where trappers are being hired. 
Several of our neighbors just sit in their houses and wait for the critters to wander by and then take shots at them even though it is illegal to shoot in the city. One neighbor saw 2 coyotes try to stare down his dogs but the coyotes fled when the 2 mastiffs ran toward them instead. 
The coyotes are getting too bold and do not fear people as much they used to when they are living in a suburb. Accurate shooting is a solution.


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## alleyyooper

Personally here in Michigan I think they should live trap the wolves from the UPPER that are off Isle Royal and turn them loose in suberia where the tree huggers live. Those wolves would make short work of reduceing the youte numbers and the tree huggers that want the loveable wolves would have them where they diden't have to go on vacation to see them.

 Al


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## Ghillie

RCR 3 EVER said:


> Coyotes are killing dogs wholesale particulary in Grosse Pt woods where trappers are being hired.
> Several of our neighbors just sit in their houses and wait for the critters to wander by and then take shots at them even though it is illegal to shoot in the city. One neighbor saw 2 coyotes try to stare down his dogs but the coyotes fled when the 2 mastiffs ran toward them instead.
> The coyotes are getting too bold and do not fear people as much they used to when they are living in a suburb. Accurate shooting is a solution.



Are they just moving into the area? They usually kill house pets when they move into an area to establish dominance.

BTW... I just built the electronic caller that VarmintAl has on his website (link posted earlier in thread) and it works great! At least it sounds great and you can download sound files right from his website.

I already had the IPOD but just saw a small mp3 player at Office Depot for about $20 that would work fine.

The horn and the amp ran about $40 at Radio Shack and VarmintAl has the part #'s on his site.


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## 2000ssm6

Ghillie said:


> Are they just moving into the area? They usually kill house pets when they move into an area to establish dominance.
> 
> BTW... I just built the electronic caller that VarmintAl has on his website (link posted earlier in thread) and it works great! At least it sounds great and you can download sound files right from his website.
> 
> I already had the IPOD but just saw a small mp3 player at Office Depot for about $20 that would work fine.
> 
> The horn and the amp ran about $40 at Radio Shack and VarmintAl has the part #'s on his site.




Looks great! Is the sound loud and clear?


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## Ghillie

I don't think it is quite as loud as a friends store bought one but I think it is just the ticket if you want to save some money. It is very clear with no discernable distortion.

VarmintAL has used his numerous times with success but we haven't had anything come into this yet. We haven't had any come in to the mouth calls either so I am not sure what we are doing wrong this year.

We've had quite a bit of success in the past so I think they might be call shy for some reason.... Re-examining our whole setup anf tactics right now.


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## alleyyooper

Driving down the interstate and Kare says there is one of those big coffee mugs you been looking for. At the next exit I did a U turn and went back to where she saw it.
Wow it is a big one and best of all it is free.






The lid is 4 inches across inside the lip.






Thank you who ever lost it.

 Al


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## alleyyooper

The coyote population is exploding in the east. Many are now trying to hunt them to kleep the population down.
I want to point out I did not start this building but a fellow on Predator Masters did.
His user name is SDHandgunner .

All Ihave did is up date the price of the things you need from Radio shack and give you an Idea of the size of the cup.

So here we go. 

Since there seems to be a lot of interest in building an Electronic E-Caller I think this post will save some time in the long run. To start with I am no expert, but have been building E-Callers for the better part of 10 years. OK so maybe I am too cheap to buy one, but to be totally honest I guess I have yet to find one with all the features I want in a pre-made Caller. For the first several years I would build one, use it and then as I was using it I would figure out a way to make it better. For the most part this meant more compact. Sonce of the ones I have built were from ideas shared by guys that also enjoy putting these types of callers together, while other ideas were out of despiration to make the units more compact. I have used Cassettes, CD's, and finally MP3 Players for the sound source (and yes even used one of the Boom Boxes a time or two). 

To start with you'll need an Amp. I have found the little Radio Shack Amp (part #277-1008 = $12.99). I have experimented with this and other amps and dollar for dollar this little amp works, provides all the needed volume for about 90% of the calling you'll ever need, and the 9 Volt transistor Battery seems to last forever (provided it is not left on when not in use for days on end). 

This little Radio Shack Amp actually is in a small plastic housing and there is a little 2" speaker inside the housing. The first thing I do is to remove the amp circuit board from the original housing. Next (through trial and error) I find the sweet spot on the volume control (on off switch volume control) at which the volume does not get any louder by turning the volume past that point, but rather just increases amp hiss/noise. I then remove the volume wheel from the volume control and hot glue the volume control in a fixed position. 

Since we have disabled the On-Off Switch on the amp, we need to wire in a separate On-Off Switch (Radio Shack #275-1565 = $2.59 ea). I also like to wire in a small LED Indicator Light to help in not leaving the Amp turned on when not in use (Radio Shack #276-084 - $1.99 ea). One wire from the LED Indicator Light and the Red Wire from the Amp Circuit Board get soldered to on terminal on the On-Off Switch. 

The positive lead from the new 9Volt Battery Connector (Radio Shack #270-325 = $1.99 per pck of 5) gets wired to the other terminal of the On Off Switch. The negative wires from the new Battery Connector, Amp Circuit Board and LED Indicator Light all get soldered together. 

That is about it for wiring. Depending on how or what you choose to mount your amp in (I use either a Radio Shack Project Enclosure #270-1805 = $3.79 or an insulated Coffee Mug) you may or may not need a couple of 90 degree adaptors (Radio Shack #274-372 = $3.99 each. The 90 Degree Adaptors are needed for clearance to get the speaker and patch cord (that goes between the amp and the sound source) plugged in inside of the coffee mug. 

Next is the patch cord to go between the Amp and the Sound Source (Radio Shack #42-2497 1' patch cord with 1/8" Stereo Plugs on each end = $4.29) and the sound source. You can get a premade 6' patch cord also if you need to have the sound source farther away from the amp. 

 Al


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## alleyyooper

this is the price list as of April 2009.

Radio Shack parts price update. 

I went to Radio Shack last Friday to buy part for my home made E caller. 
Here is a price up date. 

Radio Shack items parts list 

Radio Shack #277-1008, Mini Audio Amplifier/Speaker = $12.99ea 
New price Michigan, $14.99 

Radio Shack #275-1565, SPST Soft Feel Push on Push Off Switch = $2.59ea 
New price Michigan, $2.79 

Radio Shack #276-084, LED Indicator Light for Amp (fits 3/16" hole) = $1.99ea 
unchanged 

Radio Shack #42-2387, 6 Foot Patch Cord 1/8" Stereo Plug on each end = $4.99ea 
New price Michigan $7.49 
****Radio Shack #270-325, 9V Snap Type Battery Connectors (Pkg. of 5) = $1.99ea *I got the new tuffer type part number 270 324 $2.69 

****When I opened up my AMP case there was a 9v battery connecter inside.*

 Al


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## alleyyooper

The wireing diagram.







The amp.











Had to wait on the speaker that got back ordered. I cancled the order as I didn't have any more time to fool with it as it became Bee Keeping time.

*I ordered the speaker from these folks yesterday for $7.99and $6.00 shipping.
http://www.altex.com/Speco-5-Weather...P-P141247.aspx*I'm useing a I pod shuffle as it has not got a LCD to freeze up in the cold as a sound source.
You could use a old walkman tape player, a portable CD player or any number of cheap MP3 players and even some cell phones.
I am going to do my next one with a used Nokia 6085 I have on hand.

It took longer to load the sounds on the I pod than it did to assemble the caller.

Load your sounds from here.

http://www.varmintal.com/coy5-20.htm 


Not mine but it is how it should look befor painting.






 Al


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## barneyrb

Here is what we did and it does work, best of all everything can be had for ~$10 (not including cost of CD) from yard sales or goodwill stores. We found a predator call cd and use this on a portable cd player, next we bought a pair of self-powered (has a couple of "C" batteries inside) computer spearkers. A little camo paint, easily portable, and works great.


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## Ghillie

That's a great idea. How is the volume and distortion?

Hope to get out more in the daylight this spring. Stop depending on snow and moonlight when the urge hits.


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## Arrowhead

I've been hunting Coyotes about 15 years now. In my opinion the calling is the easiest part. The set-up is the toughest. Getting in quiet, playing the wind, covering most angles for a clear shot is the most important. I use a 22.250 and a 12 gauge with #1 buck shot. I actually prefer the shotgun. Around here its a lot of farm ground, small woodlots, fence rows and tree lines. Your vision is not the greatest around here as far as seeing them coming from a long distance. I have flat out crushed Coyotes at close to 100 yrds with the #1 buck. Plus I mostly hunt alone and a double is a lot easier with a shotgun. I would estimate about 8 out of 100 Coyotes I have called in came out of the woods. They like the grassy brushy areas, fence rows and ditch lines. In the daytime when its cold they like to bed where the sun can warm them. My favorite call (and I have tried about all) is the Night and Hale 900 series cottontail. Its about $15 and its one of the first I used when I started. Its a closed reed call and the reed will need to be replaced once it looses its raspiness. Open reed calls are great if you can get the hang of them, I never gave them enough time. I have the Randy Anderson Fox Pro caller also. I have killed a few with it, but went back to the cheap mouth call. A turkey diaphragm is fantastic to sound like a injured pup. I have coyotes practically jump in my lap, never leave home with out it. Its another super cheap call. I have a howler made by Quaker Boy that sounds fantastic. I have brought them in with just that before. If you use a howler, first I would advise watching Randys videos first, you can very easily do a warning bark with it and send the coyotes the other way. I have never had any luck in a wind over 10 mph. They will move in the wind but its hard to get them the respond to the call. This absolutely drives me nuts, I have heard many people say they were walking out to there spot and jumped a coyote, then they started to blow there rabbit squealer thinking its going to come back! Coyotes are in fact one of the smartest animals on the planet. I have walked over a mile before and ended up jumping or spooking a coyote before I ever started calling. I turn around and head back to the truck and go to a different area. Like I said around here its not real open and there's not a lot of area for others to come from. I would rather go back another day than to educate him with the sound of my call after I done spooked him. This is how I do it in my area, different areas or parts of the country may be totally different. I hope this helps, I have seen other great advice given in this thread. I hope to see you in a pic with a big dog!! Good luck.


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## Ghillie

Good advice arrowhead.

Especially about the warning bark. Once they hear that, they rarely come in. Managed to get one to come in though. Started giving the same bark back at him and he got confused. Ran right by us and I yelped a couple of hurt pups at him and he stopped broadside at about 100 yds. It was so dang cold that my buddies firing pin froze up, the rifle fired into the ground as he was lowering it.

That's the second person I have warned about oiling their firing pin on a bolt action when it is cold out, and then watched their dismay as the oil gummed up in the cold. I always use a good dry lube after spraying it out with brake cleaner. Carb cleaner leaves a residue and eats some finishes right off


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## Ol' Brian

I built the Varmint Al El Cheapo caller also. 

One thing I did differently was that I used an old 8 cell 9.6v rechargeable NiCad battery pack that I retired from one of my RC airplane transmitters to power it... I think the sound improved dramatically with the NiCad over the little 9V alkaline... the NiCad has more amperes available to drive the amplifier at the higher volume levels... I could turn the amplifier up to almost 100% without distortion. My ears could tell the difference anyway...


----------



## RVALUE

Anybody have a good online source of an audio call?


----------



## Ghillie

Rvalue, what is it you are looking for? Sound files, commercial e-caller or mouth calls?


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## RVALUE

I wanted to allow my 11 YO to listen, so he had an idea of what's going on.


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## Ghillie

If you just want to play them on your computer, go to Varmint Al's site mentioned earlier. You can download the sound files and play them. He has a good variety of different calls, howls and barks. They are all made by someone with a mouth call but that is about as close as you're going to get.


----------



## Dancing Bear

I wish I had looked at this thread earlier. Too late now but the was a regional predator hunt last weekend sponsored by Bark at the Moon hunting club. But there's more coming. see 
http://barkmoon.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=nyhunt
My son's into it so LMK if you need further info.


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## RVALUE

Thanks, sounds right!


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## spencerhenry

coyote #17 for this year dropped today. 60gr sierra varminter in lake city case with 748. 136 yds, dropped like a bag of excrement, unfortunately his buddy that came in with him got away in the brush. i had spotted them at about 600 to 700 yds just goofing off. snowshoed my way in to a set up spot, started the caller with a jack rabbit distress, and a few seconds later they were running my direction. they hesitated at about 300yds, at about 200 i shut off the caller. they stopped at 136, and i drilled the lead dog. if they had come closer i wouldnt have been able to shoot until they were at 20yds. thats too close without a shotgun. i would like to carry a shotgun too, but when sinking to your knees WITH snowshoes on, its too much stuff. jack rabbit distress is not one i use very often as we dont have jacks around here, but i have called this area alot and have killed 6 dogs close by in the last 2 months so i tried something new. they seemed to like it.
this makes 3 dogs in the last week, got one on wenesday with a beautiful hide. a big mature male with scars all over his face. i spotted him laying on a dam at about 685yds. i snuck up to 304yds, and he was still sleeping, he hadnt moved since i spotted him. after messing with my bipod a couple of times, he heard me. i looked through the scope and he was up and looking at me. i shot and dropped him like a sack, about 3/4 of a mile with approximately 600' vertical climb in knee deep snow made the trip out exhausting, i needede snowshoes that day. friday i just grazed one after he left my bait, he spun around and took off running, bleeding but not bad. he was at 210yds trotting straight away. saturday morning i shot a mature male off the bait, right through the middle of his body, he ran about 30 yds and piled up. not a good hide on this one, all fuzzy with not much for guard hairs.
over the next week i hope to get a couple more. i have got one roadkill deer out and one road kill elk out. plus i think the females are coming into heat which should make them a little more responsive to some howling.


----------



## Ghillie

Spencerhenry, after reading your story, I think I am going to have to try some non-native sounds. Oddly, we have been having zero luck this year and I have been trying to figure out what has changed. I think a change in the sounds I use is in order.

Question, are you haveing trouble finding 748 also? Do you notice any temperature sensitivity with 748. I recently switched to benchmark because of trouble finding 748 and am happy so far, it's a small grain extruded that almost is small enough to be a ball powder so it meters well.


----------



## spencerhenry

i am out of 748 right now, but i have enough ammo to take out several dozen coyotes. my record in one season is 21, but i am hope to hit 25 or more this year. i always have some wc846 to use, but that load isnt as good.


----------



## alleyyooper

Many in N.Dk, MI, Mn and Wi are reporting a problem geting them to respont to the call. Many think it has to do with the strange temps raiseing and falling way above normal. Snow or the lack there of in the north also appears to be a problem according to many.

Try Wind rivers for sounds.

 Al


----------



## spencerhenry

i have never heard of snow being an issue for calling dogs, temperature somewhat if it is hot. but dont try to tell me that global warming is ruining coyote hunting! 
i call coyotes in the spring, in the middle of summer, early fall, late fall with no snow, early winter with little snow, and middle of winter with several feet on the ground. when the powder is really deep they really have to work at it to cover ground. i have had success calling in every month of the year. i change up my calls depending on the hunting pressure, the time of year, the weather, and sometimes just for grins.
in early december we had NO snow, but it had been below zero for days. i set up in an area that had not been good for some time. i had 2 come in to about 300yds are then hang up. i was using an adult cottontail distress. while they were stopped hanging out at about 300, i switched over to a snowshoe hare distress and they came in so fast and so close that i didnt get either one of them. a coyote running in tall sage is pretty tough. if i didnt hike so far i would carry a shotgun and a rifle.


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## spencerhenry

*Coyote #21*

coyote #21 fell to a 60gr sierra varminter today. she was mousing at around 250yds, but slowly working by on a path that would put her at 165 yds. i had the caller going behind me but she was not interested. i took off my snowshoes and post holed through the snow to a location that would give me a shot if she continued on her path. all things came together at about 190yds, she stopped, i nestled the crosshairs on her chest and fired. but she took off, i missed the second shot on the run, not enough lead. i put the crosshairs about 2 feet in front of her and let the third shot go. she piled up instantly. when i stood up i noticed a bullet skid in the snow about 30' in front of my position, the first shot had hit the snow in front of me and went who knows where. i knew there was a rise in front of me but thought i was high enough. after putting my snowshoes back on i went and checked her out, the best hide of the year, super long thick guard hairs, almost a black and white dog. about an average female as far as size goes. i had killed a big old male with broken off canines in the same spot on saturday, and had hit another one that ran off. when i skinned this female, it turns out that it was the same one as saturday that had run off. there was a healing wound at the very top of her shoulders, about 1" below the top of the back, and about 2" above the shot that killed her today.
21 coyotes in one year is my previous record, at this rate i might get 30 this year. i have killed 6 or 7 now in the last 2 weeks.


----------



## RVALUE

I looked at a 700, in .223, used with a decent scope for $ 700. ?????

Poverty stinks.


----------



## Taxmantoo

ghitch75 said:


> get the bow out and stick 1!!!!...lol



I know somebody who got arrested for discharging a weapon within city limits. He was shooting a bow in the back yard in a much more rural and less uptight village than I assume Milwaukee suburbia is like. Not hunting, just target practice.


----------



## Ghillie

spencerhenry said:


> coyote #21 fell to a 60gr sierra varminter today. she was mousing at around 250yds, but slowly working by on a path that would put her at 165 yds. i had the caller going behind me but she was not interested. i took off my snowshoes and post holed through the snow to a location that would give me a shot if she continued on her path. all things came together at about 190yds, she stopped, i nestled the crosshairs on her chest and fired. but she took off, i missed the second shot on the run, not enough lead. i put the crosshairs about 2 feet in front of her and let the third shot go. she piled up instantly. when i stood up i noticed a bullet skid in the snow about 30' in front of my position, the first shot had hit the snow in front of me and went who knows where. i knew there was a rise in front of me but thought i was high enough. after putting my snowshoes back on i went and checked her out, the best hide of the year, super long thick guard hairs, almost a black and white dog. about an average female as far as size goes. i had killed a big old male with broken off canines in the same spot on saturday, and had hit another one that ran off. when i skinned this female, it turns out that it was the same one as saturday that had run off. there was a healing wound at the very top of her shoulders, about 1" below the top of the back, and about 2" above the shot that killed her today.
> 21 coyotes in one year is my previous record, at this rate i might get 30 this year. i have killed 6 or 7 now in the last 2 weeks.



Awesome! I loaded some 55 gr ballistic tips for the .243 win last week, tested them saturday, should print 3/4" or less on a day with no wind. Should clock in at 3900fps. Not bad for a sporter weight rifle.


----------



## alleyyooper

R value. that sounds a bit on the pricy side to me. But I have no idea wht gun values are in your area. You can buy NEW Savages in a combo for less than that. The Savages have a great reputation for out of the box accrcsy, they also have the adjustable trigger. Even if you got a stripped Savage and bought your own scope and mounts you would not have much more than $700.00 in all new stuff.

USED REMINGTON 700TACT G6832108 223 20" HB W/ SYN STOCK $599.95 

USED SAVAGE 10 PREDATOR G630420 223REM 22" HB W/ 3X9 L RETICLE $619.95 

http://www.bullocksguns.com/

 Al


----------



## Ghillie

alleyyooper said:


> R value. that sounds a bit on the pricy side to me. But I have no idea wht gun values are in your area. You can buy NEW Savages in a combo for less than that. The Savages have a great reputation for out of the box accrcsy, they also have the adjustable trigger. Even if you got a stripped Savage and bought your own scope and mounts you would not have much more than $700.00 in all new stuff.
> 
> USED REMINGTON 700TACT G6832108 223 20" HB W/ SYN STOCK $599.95
> 
> USED SAVAGE 10 PREDATOR G630420 223REM 22" HB W/ 3X9 L RETICLE $619.95
> 
> http://www.bullocksguns.com/
> 
> Al



I thought it was pricey too but I don't have enough info to look it up in BlueBook.


----------



## RVALUE

I am checking on the exact specs as we speak. I will post soon.

Thanks for sharing your expertise.


----------



## spencerhenry

make that 22 coyotes. this time 223 wssm with 55 gr winchester softpoint, 60 yards out the bedroom window.


----------



## dingeryote

RVALUE said:


> I looked at a 700, in .223, used with a decent scope for $ 700. ?????
> 
> Poverty stinks.



That sucks.

I can BUILD you a base AR Varminter for about that much, and good glass should only set you back 3-4 bills.

Keep looking.

Savage Tactical HB in .223 can be had for around 5 bills used most times, and there's no end of sporter weights out there for around 4.

www.gunsamerica.com

www.gunbroker.com

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## RVALUE

Thanks for all the info.

My 'good buddy' hasn't gotten back with me yet on the specs of that Mod. 700.

I suspect the scope is fairly decent, but I don't know.

I've never been an expert in firearms, and am less of one today.

I will keep you fine gentlemen posted. I am for sure going .223 because I don't want to add a new cartridge.


----------



## RVALUE

It is a Remington 700 HB, with a 4x16 weaver scope. 'Dozen' shots fired.

20 inch barrel Syn camo


----------



## Ghillie

RVALUE said:


> It is a Remington 700 HB, with a 4x16 weaver scope. 'Dozen' shots fired.
> 
> 20 inch barrel Syn camo



My first impression of the top of my head, Its a good rifle, I have a Varmint Synthetic in .220 swift. The trigger is set at 48 oz (not factory) and I love it. I paid $500 for the rifle brand new in 2000. Weaver scopes, IMHO don't hold their value as well as say Leupold. The scope is worth $50-$100 to me. The base and rings add another $100 if they are good quality (leupold) $50 for cheaper. So if the rifle is truly a 'dozen round' gun, no wear on blueing no scratches or dings, considering the current market. That's about right.

Savage has really stepped up their game lately with good solid stocks and bedding in some models and an adjustable (user adjustable) trigger. Remington thinks they are all that AND a bag of chips with the current list prices I have seen. Don't get me wrong. Rem is a good gun but for the money Savage is a good gun also.

I will look it up in BlueBook, My copy is a couple of years old but it will help.


----------



## Ghillie

My bluebook is 2006, I was going to get a new one this spring. I couldn't find 700HB but from what you have said this is close except for the 26" BBL. EDIT: if it's actual camo that might add to the price.


----------



## Ghillie

dingeryote said:


> That sucks.
> 
> I can BUILD you a base AR Varminter for about that much, and good glass should only set you back 3-4 bills.
> 
> Keep looking.
> 
> Savage Tactical HB in .223 can be had for around 5 bills used most times, and there's no end of sporter weights out there for around 4.
> 
> www.gunsamerica.com
> 
> www.gunbroker.com
> 
> Stay safe!
> Dingeryote



LOL... I'm looking at AR parts as we type. I already have a lower.


----------



## RVALUE

I am still in consideration of an AR. There are so many choices, the education would drain me. In several ways.

What happened to simplicity?


----------



## RVALUE

And the 'salesman' at the gunshop I stopped at said " the mini's are not as accurate as the AR.s" He thought it was because the bolt 'gave' more or something. If this is right, why doesn't the barrel straiten the bullet up?

Although I have always believed the bolt action was more accurate than other actions, with the possible exception of the break over.


----------



## Ghillie

RVALUE said:


> And the 'salesman' at the gunshop I stopped at said " the mini's are not as accurate as the AR.s" He thought it was because the bolt 'gave' more or something. If this is right, why doesn't the barrel straiten the bullet up?
> 
> Although I have always believed the bolt action was more accurate than other actions, with the possible exception of the break over.



The bolt lock up on a mini is a weak point but the weakest is the barrel itself. They cut them too quick and as the temp rises from shots fired, they string the bullets all over. You can send a mini to Accuracy rifle sytems and they say they will return a minute of angle rifle but that's another $400-500 if I remember right.

If you want better than a 3" gun, go with an AR. You will end up less frustrated in the end.


----------



## Ghillie

Autoloaders can be accurate but it's easier with a bolt action. AR's have a good rotating bolt lockup.


----------



## RVALUE

So does a "good Barrel" overcome the 'mechanism' (bolt, auto etc.)?


----------



## Ghillie

RVALUE said:


> So does a "good Barrel" overcome the 'mechanism' (bolt, auto etc.)?



Short answer, No. The straighter and more consistant you get the bullet started, the straighter it leaves the gun.

I'm always striving for sub MOA (minute of angle= 1" at 100 yards). I have a mini that didn't cost me anything so sending it to ARS wasn't as big of a hit to me, but in the end, I am looking at building an AR.

The mini still has it's purposes, but an AR is going to make me happier in the end. Once you have a complete lower reciever, you canbuy an upper complete online without an FFL and swap it onto the lower as quick as you can change slings.

Another thing to consider is the AR is cleaned from the breach and the mini HAS to be cleaned from the muzzle which damages the crown of the barrel, The last piece of metal the bullet touches as it leaves for its journey.


----------



## Ghillie

I got these groups with the mini but it's shooting a 40gr bullet at under 3000 fps when it should be going over 3500. not enough energy IMHO at the end of it's travel. (These are 5 shot groups)


----------



## Ghillie

These are out of the 700 Varmint Synthetic with Leupold 6.5-20x40 scope.


----------



## Ghillie

Sorry if that was a little back and forth between bolt and auto loader.

I was a little tired last night. I prefer bolt for accuracy and I know guys who are good at running shots with bolt.

Generally it costs more to get the same accuracy out of an auto loader that you can get out of a bolt action.


----------



## spencerhenry

#23 today, the biggest one this year, weighed in at 37#. i would post the photo but i dont know how.


----------



## Ghillie

spencerhenry said:


> #23 today, the biggest one this year, weighed in at 37#. i would post the photo but i dont know how.



Check out this thread.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=65204


----------



## spencerhenry

i just tried that, it says file is too big. i dont have software to modify the photo, is there an easy way to make it smaller?


----------



## Ghillie

spencerhenry said:


> i just tried that, it says file is too big. i dont have software to modify the photo, is there an easy way to make it smaller?



Try searching "picture resizer" in google. I don't have any experiance with the free ones that are available. Did you get anything with the camera? Usually there is a compression setting for when you save the file in programs that come with the camera.


----------



## alleyyooper

If you use windows there is probably a program on you computer called photo express.
You also can resize photos useing paint A part of every windows set up.

Also if you open a photo bucket account which is free they will resize your photos small enough to post here.
Image cave is another free photo storage site wher ethe pictures can be resized once they are there.

At shutterfly you can also up load and store pictures. they should also be able to be posted here like the one below.






I do how ever find photo bucket to be the easest next to image cave which limits the sp-ace you have.

 Al


----------



## dingeryote

Ghillie said:


> LOL... I'm looking at AR parts as we type. I already have a lower.



Ghillie,

www.bravocompanyusa.com

No junk offered, and good prices.

The owner is a bud of mine, and good people. Saved my Butt a few times by coming through with parts when official channels were dry.

The barrels, uppers, and bolt carrier groups under the BCM name EXCEED mil-spec. with 1-1 HPT and MPI.

Whatcha building?

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## dingeryote

Ghillie said:


> I got these groups with the mini but it's shooting a 40gr bullet at under 3000 fps when it should be going over 3500. not enough energy IMHO at the end of it's travel. (These are 5 shot groups)



That is awesome for a Mini!

Still see evidence of it wanting to vertical string though.
Dosn't matter off the shoulder in the field however!

NICE!

I never got a Mini to shoot that well, and spent lotsa $$$ and time.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## Ghillie

Thanks. The groups are good but I haven't been able to reproduce them with appropriate velocities for the bullets I have tried.

Still can't overcome first shot variance. Thought about getting an adjustable gas block but I'm not going to put more money in that rifle, it still has it's uses and is fun to shoot but at times I've come close to grabbing it by the muzzle and wrapping it around a tree.

With the AR, I would like around 16"-18" barrel (carbine length for walking through woods and quicker aquisition) but with MOA out to 200-300 yds. Optics I am thinking 4-12X.

I am thinking that I am trying to build a rifle that can't be built, close quarters target aqcuisition with long range repeatablity. Might just have to break down and get an upper for each purpose.

I'd like to get my hand on some of Magpul's friction adjustable stocks to see how much play they take out.

I'm not in a hurry, need to shoot some with buddies AR's to get a feel for what I want. I have the Mini, Varmint Synthetic and a Sako Forester in .243 Win that shoots MOA with 55 gr ballistic tips, so the black rifle can wait for awhile.

Have you looked at Xtreme AR-15 trigger? 4 millisecond lock time.

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.


----------



## dingeryote

Ghillie said:


> Thanks. The groups are good but I haven't been able to reproduce them with appropriate velocities for the bullets I have tried.
> 
> Still can't overcome first shot variance. Thought about getting an adjustable gas block but I'm not going to put more money in that rifle, it still has it's uses and is fun to shoot but at times I've come close to grabbing it by the muzzle and wrapping it around a tree.
> 
> With the AR, I would like around 16"-18" barrel (carbine length for walking through woods and quicker aquisition) but with MOA out to 200-300 yds. Optics I am thinking 4-12X.
> 
> I am thinking that I am trying to build a rifle that can't be built, close quarters target aqcuisition with long range repeatablity. Might just have to break down and get an upper for each purpose.
> 
> I'd like to get my hand on some of Magpul's friction adjustable stocks to see how much play they take out.
> 
> I'm not in a hurry, need to shoot some with buddies AR's to get a feel for what I want. I have the Mini, Varmint Synthetic and a Sako Forester in .243 Win that shoots MOA with 55 gr ballistic tips, so the black rifle can wait for awhile.
> 
> Have you looked at Xtreme AR-15 trigger? 4 millisecond lock time.
> 
> Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.



Ghillie,

The profile/config you seek exists, and works well.

3-400m MOA ain't a problem with the heavier Bullets so that means 1-8 ROT.

White Oak or CLE (Frank White is OUR kind of freak!) 18 mid length gas system 1-8 Med contour tube is a great balance. 

I built one several years back in 6.8SPR for a Truck carbine, and have built several in 5.56 in SAM-R config. 

The optic is the gotcha. compromise sux, or costs $$$$.

CCO's are limited to 100m or so, and the 1-6X offerings just lack the Magnification for 400m that most are used to.

That leaves an ACOG that's gonna make the wallet scream.

Trigger wise, I am not a fan of the disco whiz bang triggers out there.
They are mostly not robust enough to survive a 3 day training course, let alone the grit and grunge of the real world. The Jewel trigger is the worst, but if kept sterile is SWEET!
I like the Accuracy speaks, Rock river match, and a lightly polished G.I. trigger because they hold up, don't have screws that back back out and tie things up, and will tolerate dirt. I tend to err on the side of overbuilt reliability.

I gotta do some running this afternoon, but will get some pics up later on.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## RVALUE

Good evening gentlemen:

Haven't had a chance to shoot that overpriced rifle yet, but soon, hopefully.

I will let you know what I think I find.

I am still thinking (when my ship comes in) of an AR. No more Mini's. 

Like I mentioned earlier, there are alot of choices on those.

Regards,


----------



## dingeryote

LMT Lower, CMT upper, SS WO 1/8 Barrel w/PRI brake. ARMS S.W.A.N. sleeve, PRI Carbon fiber floated hand guard, Magpul 93B stock, LMT FCG polished to 4lb clean, H buffer, and a BCM carrier group, Trijicon TA33B optic.
She holds in the .4's with Sierra 75gr MK all day long, and runs LC M855 into MOA MOST of the time. 







Just for a comparo I dug out a 18" blackened SS 1/8 DMR tube that hasn't been twisted onto anything yet. The M4 below it has a 16" std. tube on it, so's you can get an idea of the weight/length when mounted up on a more conventional carbine.






Bolt rifles are capable of better accuracy, but at a certain point it becomes academic and expensive...and heavy.
Most times with a little load development, a well built AR will get ya in the sub MOA range with about the same investment.
Go NUTS on an AR platform, and they will match just about any Bolt out there save the dedicated BR actions.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## what-a-stihl

sorry if I offend anyone but I've never seen the use for the "black" rifles in the field, call me a fudd if you want. I think they are a marvel worthy of praise for their use in the battlefield and they're a blast to shoot, I had one, but usually I hunt with one or more people and It sure puts a thorn in your side to do the leg work of getting a yote tracked or called and someone can't finish the job because they either have a junk scope or a inaccurate rifle. I've had an AR and a mini 14 and neither one could shoot a tight group for nothing. There's a reason match shooters, snipers, and experienced yote hunters use bolt action rifles, because they are the best tool for the job. I shoot a remington XR-100 22-250, which is a single shot, and I kill 98% of the coyotes I'm shooting at,some past 400 yards. I'm not slamming the guys that shoot 'em, I just want to tell the gentleman who started the thread that he has the right rifle for the job. Good luck. Check out the dogs at "coyotes gone wild" on youtube, It's kind of slow at first, but shot 9 dogs in a day of trackin', are best is 21 in a day


----------



## Ghillie

what-a-stihl said:


> sorry if I offend anyone but I've never seen the use for the "black" rifles in the field, call me a fudd if you want. I think they are a marvel worthy of praise for their use in the battlefield and they're a blast to shoot, I had one, but usually I hunt with one or more people and It sure puts a thorn in your side to do the leg work of getting a yote tracked or called and someone can't finish the job because they either have a junk scope or a inaccurate rifle. I've had an AR and a mini 14 and neither one could shoot a tight group for nothing. There's a reason match shooters, snipers, and experienced yote hunters use bolt action rifles, because they are the best tool for the job. I shoot a remington XR-100 22-250, which is a single shot, and I kill 98% of the coyotes I'm shooting at,some past 400 yards. I'm not slamming the guys that shoot 'em, I just want to tell the gentleman who started the thread that he has the right rifle for the job. Good luck. Check out the dogs at "coyotes gone wild" on youtube, It's kind of slow at first, but shot 9 dogs in a day of trackin', are best is 21 in a day



You didn't really read any of the posts, did you? Just had to chime in.


----------



## RVALUE

Gents:

Just finished painting this a.m. I have a Little league BB game, then I hope to shoots the PO_?

Yes it cost too much, but it is in hand. Time = something.

Have a greater day!


----------



## Ghillie

RVALUE said:


> Gents:
> 
> Just finished painting this a.m. I have a Little league BB game, then I hope to shoots the PO_?
> 
> Yes it cost too much, but it is in hand. Time = something.
> 
> Have a greater day!



Time is worth something. Let us know how it shoots.


----------



## RVALUE

I prolly can't post pics of the target, but I will try. Maybe my 11 YO will take enough interest to follow through with the pics.

Fortuneately, even though we live on the outskirts of town, I have a 200 yard range about 30 yards from the house. (Just watch for cars, and time it right. )


----------



## dingeryote

what-a-stihl said:


> sorry if I offend anyone but I've never seen the use for the "black" rifles in the field, call me a fudd if you want. I think they are a marvel worthy of praise for their use in the battlefield and they're a blast to shoot, I had one, but usually I hunt with one or more people and It sure puts a thorn in your side to do the leg work of getting a yote tracked or called and someone can't finish the job because they either have a junk scope or a inaccurate rifle. I've had an AR and a mini 14 and neither one could shoot a tight group for nothing. There's a reason match shooters, snipers, and experienced yote hunters use bolt action rifles, because they are the best tool for the job. I shoot a remington XR-100 22-250, which is a single shot, and I kill 98% of the coyotes I'm shooting at,some past 400 yards. I'm not slamming the guys that shoot 'em, I just want to tell the gentleman who started the thread that he has the right rifle for the job. Good luck. Check out the dogs at "coyotes gone wild" on youtube, It's kind of slow at first, but shot 9 dogs in a day of trackin', are best is 21 in a day





"Match shooters, snipers, and experienced yote hunters use bolt action rifles"?

Obviously you have not been to Camp Perry in the last 20 years, have no clue as to what our Military is armed with, and have never been around an experienced 'Yote hunter.

You're missing out.
Try an AR again.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## what-a-stihl

Probably shoot more 'yotes in a day than you do in a year. Last year we shot 161 dogs in the winter season, would you like to see pics? My brother is a USMC scout sniper and swears by the M40 A1 sniper rifle, which I may add is built off a remington bolt. "ghille", who has a picture of the late Carlos Hathcock should be in full agreement with me. No I haven't been to Camp Perry, but I know people who have shot there, and I give credit to the M14 rifle for it's reputation at Camp Perry and it's accuracy, but show me a AR that can perform better at long range than a bolt action rifle. When you're good you only need 1 shot


----------



## Ghillie

what-a-stihl said:


> Probably shoot more 'yotes in a day than you do in a year. Last year we shot 161 dogs in the winter season, would you like to see pics? My brother is a USMC scout sniper and swears by the M40 A1 sniper rifle, which I may add is built off a remington bolt. "ghille", who has a picture of the late Carlos Hathcock should be in full agreement with me. No I haven't been to Camp Perry, but I know people who have shot there, and I give credit to the M14 rifle for it's reputation at Camp Perry and it's accuracy, but show me a AR that can perform better at long range than a bolt action rifle. When you're good you only need 1 shot



You have tunnel vision and don't see the applications where an AR would be nice. Carrying a Heavy 26" barrel rifle across frozen chisel plow sucks. Re-read the posts and unless I'm speaking in another tongue, you should be able to figure out my opinion on bolt guns.

The avatar is to honor a man who died 11 years ago this month, not to brag about my abilities.

The guy who talked me into considering an AR shoots in the Civilian Marksmanship Program at Camp Perry and is a Distinguished Marksman.

There is no simple answer that will meet all situational requirements.


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## RVALUE

I shot her.

All parts worked fine, looked to be 1-2 high at 100

I have a problem remembering that since I am crippled, I can't perform like I used to, or how I _remember _that I could. 

I didn't have bags or a rest, so it isn't the guns fault.

The scope relief is not what I would like, or think that I would like, but It didn't look adjustable. Otherwise the weapon is more than I need.

My boys 9 and 11 shot a half brick of 22s, All in all a good time. MUDDY though. Jumped 3 deer and my son was able to "scope" them out with the scope, which is a unique situation. (finding and tracking live moving animals with a scope) Their dad doesn't take them out much.... He's a sorry dude.

Thanks for the inputs.


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## RVALUE

An Update: 

I've made it 16 hours and haven't been caught. I took two (un-weaned) diarahea mouths shooting with a new weapon, and they didn't run home tattling. This is a first! So no big argument about there's no milk, electric bill, etc.

Twas a good alternative.


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## what-a-stihl

All I can say is, to each is own. If an AR works for you than more power to you. I was just giving my opinion, I didn't want to offend anyone or get into arguements with men on this site who all share a common intertest. Good luck hunting to all


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## RVALUE

Is there any easier than to build a remote control for a mp3 player?

I bet I can build one with an old garage door opener. But that's complicated.


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## what-a-stihl

This was in one day last week of hunting coyotes, Is that experience enough? Thats 18 'yotes in less than 12 hours. Anyone looking for a Foxpro FX3, with remote, usb cable, rechargable battery pack with charger, and the box I bought it in? PM me if you are interested


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## Ghillie

what-a-stihl said:


> All I can say is, to each is own. If an AR works for you than more power to you. I was just giving my opinion, I didn't want to offend anyone or get into arguements with men on this site who all share a common intertest. Good luck hunting to all




I wasn't belittling your opinion, your post just reminded me of someone who walked into a conversation and expressed their thoughts without knowing what had been discussed.

To have a 98% rate with the rifle you are shooting is something to be proud of.

To say I would agree with you on bolt guns based on my avatar tells me you didn't read any either. And if I remember right, the Gunnie's longest shot was with a .50 cal machine gun rigged to fire a single shot at a time.

And by the way, welcome to the forum.


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## what-a-stihl

That's correct, but also look at the record now which is held by canadian sniper rob furlong with a Tac-50 bolt action rifle at 2,657 yards. Also the gunnies most renown rifle was the winchester model 70. There's no disputing the accuracy of the rifles you mentioned and I detect that you are a man who knows what he's talking about. I was only offering my opinion without trying to offend anyone, maybe I shouldn't of. And if I came across as someone who just butted in and forced my opinion than I apoligize to all whom I may offended.


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## spencerhenry

i have a battery of coyote rifles, each one has a different specialty. i have a matched pair of colt 6724's, it is a 24" stainless barrel, match trigger, free floated, hogue pistol grip and 12x leupold. the one rifle has seen so much use that after 9000 rounds i replaced the barrel. with the old barrel it just wouldnt consistently group under 3/4" anymore. before it was worn out i shot a handful of one hole 5 shot groups. i also have a remington 700 22-250 laminated heavy varmint, 26" bull barrel, wide fore end laminated stock, 6.5-20 leupold, it is HEAVY. i also have a 223 wssm 22" barrel bolt action model 70 with a 6x leupold. and a carbon 15 16" barrel 6x leupold. 
on any given day i take the AR, it has killed more coyotes than most people kill in a lifetime, 20 so far this year. if i am going to go to an area where i expect shots to be 300 yds plus, i take the 22-250. when shooting from the bedroom window i use the model 70 223 wssm, it is short, light and easy to get out the window without alerting the dogs. if i am going scouting for elk where i park the motorcycle at 12,000 feet and hike in 3.5 miles or more i take the carbon 15, take 2 pins out and it is in half and fits in my pack without sticking out the top, it also only weighs 3.9 pounds without a mag or the scope. i dont like carrying a heavy rifle at high altitude steep ground unless i am there only to hunt. 
in the next few months i will acquire a 223 bolt rifle, havent decide on a long heavy barreled version, or a shorter lighter easier to carry rifle. i really like the look of the kimber longmaster classic. i also may sell the 223 wssm and replace it with another 22-250, this time a light one. the 223 wssm has poor brass life, and the brass isnt very common. 
some days when it is really windy and i expect to shoot a long way, i have taken my remington 700 pss in 308. it is a 26" heavy barrel, wide fore end palm swell synthetic stock, with a 4.5-14 mil dot leupold. 
basically any rifle capable of good accuracy is a coyote rifle. i have shot them with 22-250, 223, 223 wssm, 270, 308, 45 win mag, 338 win mag, 22lr(lots of bullets), carbon arrow with broadhead, and maybe some that i forgot.
oh yeah, and the ar10t 24" stainless, carbon fiber free float tube, match trigger, 4.5-14 leupold.


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## what-a-stihl

sounds like you have some top of the line equipment, wish I could afford those toys.


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## Marco

My coyote rifle is a Stevens model 77C..........with #4 buck


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## Ghillie

what-a-stihl said:


> sounds like you have some top of the line equipment, wish I could afford those toys.



Don't know about Spencerhenry but it's taken 24 years for me to get where I am.


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## spencerhenry

i bought my first center fire rifle in 1987. i was 16 years old. since then i have only sold one rifle, that is until recently. times are tough and i am whittling away the guns that i either never shot, or that are expensive to shoot, or have issues. i sold a marlin 1894 lever in 44 mag, never really liked it that much, i am a winchester guy. i sold a glock 45 that i never shot, was still new in the box, i guess i am just a 1911 guy. selling my 1876 45-75. may sell the 223 wssm, i only get 2 to 3 loadings out of the brass, and i never find it at the range. besides there is almost nothing a 223 wssm will do that a 22-250 wont, and the model 70 wont feed from the magazine if there is more than one shell in the mag. and i have LOTS of 22-250 brass, and find about 100 a year at the range.
i hope to not have a net loss in my collection, but maybe refine my collection a bit. selling alot of excess brass, and buying bullets with the proceeds. maybe after selling a couple of guns, i will buy one high quality one to replace them.
being broke sucks, no work is why i am getting so much time to hunt coyotes this year. i tell myself, " go out and have some fun, sitting around the house lamenting no work or money just makes you broke AND unhappy" i did sell my old firewood truck, that should help for a while.


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## RVALUE

For a moment I was envious of you-alls knowlege, time, and dedication. I see that for some, the time is non-enviable. The rest stands.

Thanks, Guys.

(sounds like most are fairly young, too)


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## spencerhenry

got coyotes #24 and 25 yesterday. i saw one laying in the snow at about 1 mile out. snuck to within range on snow shoes. at 300 yards he had gotten out of his bed but now i saw 2 of them. the big one was chasing the small one, then i saw it, they were getting it on. by the time i got set up they were done, but stuck together. i put a bullet through him at the back of his ribcage, she tried to get away but was still connected to him and i shot her facing straight at me. 285yds 24" barreled ar15 with 12x leupold.


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## indiansprings

The females are definelty in heat here right now, makes them easier to deal with. We had two males out in the hayfield chasing a female around before dark last night, bad mistake for two of them. My boy popped the female with the 22-250 ackley improved and I got one of the males with a HS Precision 300 wsm. Everyone and their brother hunts them around here, hard to find one that's not call shy, easier to drive around on the prairie early of a morning just after daylight. All the farmers allow shooting coyotes.
I have hunted coyotes out around Peyton, Colorado and Cheyenne Wells, man it's alot of fun in that open country, can see them coming to a call for alooooong way compared to here.


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## RVALUE

indiansprings said:


> The females are definelty in heat here right now, makes them easier to deal with. We had two males out in the hayfield chasing a female around before dark last night, bad mistake for two of them. My boy popped the female with the 22-250 ackley improved and I got one of the males with a HS Precision 300 wsm. Everyone and their brother hunts them around here, hard to find one that's not call shy, easier to drive around on the prairie early of a morning just after daylight. All the farmers allow shooting coyotes.
> I have hunted coyotes out around Peyton, Colorado and Cheyenne Wells, man it's alot of fun in that open country, can see them coming to a call for alooooong way compared to here.



When I was out west, we 'located' them with a siren, then moved in for the action. You cover alot of territory that way.


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## spencerhenry

let me start by saying that i know alot of you will call B.S. on this story. i would too if i hadn't seen it myself. 
at a range of about 75 to 85 yards, i dropped coyote #30 for the year. with a walther p-22. 22lr with a 3.25" barrel with a suppressor. he dropped like a sack of excrement, and never got up. the shot alone is an extremely tough one, but even more amazing is that a 22 bullet at under 1000 fps (subsonic), could kill a coyote. i have shot alot of things with a 22lr but i have seen alot of animal run away that are alot smaller than a coyote. hell, #29 was from the bedroom window today with a 223 wssm with a 55gr winchester power point. shot right through the chest, it got up and moved a few feet before i shot it again. that 223 wssm is running a 55gr bullet at about 3600fps!


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## Ghillie

Nope, not calling BS on that. I have probably seen stranger things happen. 

Now if you had added "I meant to do that" , I would be screamin' BS.


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## cassandrasdaddy

*i cheat*

i keep chickens and the yotes seem to like em.

the hen house is pretty hard for them to get into. when i had a pony she took care of em. she died so now i do it. i use 22 lr since its always at night and i'm real close.


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