# Oak Inside Roof Line, Technical Rigging



## ggttp

This oak was in decline and the owner wanted to remove it sooner rather than later. 

Yes I know the Porty was not wrapped properley, there was reason we did it that way.

The rigging was technical but not to complicated.

*Thanks for watching.*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJvRRPuTm1c


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## Reg

Hey you're method for rigging that trunk was a good solution. Well thought out


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## Adkpk

Ah, Ludwig! Just another day at the office.:jawdrop: Holy mackerel Andy! Sure bet the people in the homestead were sorry to see that one go. Thanks ggttp I really enjoyed that one.


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## clearance

Pretty cool, nice work. 

I couldn't see all the room, if there was enough room, for it, but if there was I would have fell it whole. Jumped it over and fixed up the path there. Fast and nasty. Was there not enough room, or was the landscaping too expensive?


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## oldirty

sweet. nothing like a technical takedown going as planned. 

good effort man.


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## JeffL

Why did the guy lowering shock load nearly every single piece you lowered off the tree? The only run it had was whatever slack you had in the rigging itself. 

The trunk removal is very cool though.


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## ggttp

clearance said:


> Pretty cool, nice work.
> 
> I couldn't see all the room, if there was enough room, for it, but if there was I would have fell it whole. Jumped it over and fixed up the path there. Fast and nasty. Was there not enough room, or was the landscaping too expensive?



You can't really tell but the tree was surrounded by freshly poured concrete.
I'm not sure why the home owner put concrete around a tree they planned on bringing down!!!! I guess they wanted to see how long they could keep us in there yard.


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## ggttp

JeffL said:


> Why did the guy lowering shock load nearly every single piece you lowered off the tree? The only run it had was whatever slack you had in the rigging itself.
> 
> The trunk removal is very cool though.



The limbs weren't that heavy, and I would rather have a little shock loading on and old rope than shock load the roof or gutters of that house. There just wasn't much room for running.

Thanks for watching. I Appreciate the comments.


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## Philbert

Very cool. Nice rigging. Thanks for sharing.

Philbert


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## techdave

*Howwdy, he already addressed the portawrap issue in hi s1st post.*

Yes I know the Porty was not wrapped properley, there was reason we did it that way


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## Ghillie

What was the reason?


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## Dadatwins

Ghillie said:


> What was the reason?



+1


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## yjcrawler

that was way cool would have loved to been there


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## ggttp

Ghillie said:


> What was the reason?



We had cleaned the truck out the night before and one of my guys forgot to put 3 of our rope bags back.

So I had to tie two shorter lines together, and a double bowline would not run through the porty. However it will run around it. Kinda hillbilly but it beats driving an hour to get the other ropes.

Thanks,


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## JeffL

ggttp said:


> We had cleaned the truck out the night before and one of my guys forgot to put 3 of our rope bags back.
> 
> So I had to tie two shorter lines together, and a double bowline would not run through the porty. However it will run around it. Kinda hillbilly but it beats driving an hour to get the other ropes.
> 
> Thanks,



We've got the "old style" porta wraps at work in service still........

A few TALL pines.......been there, done that. 2 150' ropes tied end to end. The knots run around the porty wrap better than one might think.


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## Ghillie

ggttp said:


> We had cleaned the truck out the night before and one of my guys forgot to put 3 of our rope bags back.
> 
> So I had to tie two shorter lines together, and a double bowline would not run through the porty. However it will run around it. Kinda hillbilly but it beats driving an hour to get the other ropes.
> 
> Thanks,



I was just wondering. I just bought my first porty and haven't had a chance to use it.

I guess as long as everybody fully understands the risks of varying from manufacturers recommendations and is compitant with ropes and rigging, I might do the same in that situation.

You have to know the "black and white" of every situation and know how far you can go into the "grey" area.

Nice job on the tree and the video by the way!!!


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## treemandan

Nice work. You ran a knotted rope through a porty and lived? Hey, do you think you could have done it like that with out the mini- loader? Great tool.


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## Tree Raptor

*Why the port a wrap*

I am pretty new to tree removal and have a question. Why did you have to you a port a wrap on this tree as appossed to just taking "wraps" around another tree with the lowering rope. I have never used a port a wrap but If I knew it's advantages I would as I'm sure they are not all that expensive. I would imagine that the ground man has much more control over the heavy trunk pieces but other than that would like to know. Can someone explain how it works and is it difficult to use. Thanks.


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## Ghillie

Tree Raptor said:


> I am pretty new to tree removal and have a question. Why did you have to you a port a wrap on this tree as appossed to just taking "wraps" around another tree with the lowering rope. I have never used a port a wrap but If I knew it's advantages I would as I'm sure they are not all that expensive. I would imagine that the ground man has much more control over the heavy trunk pieces but other than that would like to know. Can someone explain how it works and is it difficult to use. Thanks.




Better control over friction
Easier to lock off load
Less damage to rope (smooth barrel on porty)
Easy to attach a mechanical advantage to (pulleys)

They make them in varying sizes up to 3/4" rope and WLL of 2000#.

Instructions are attached for the porty.


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## BobbyBee

*Watching and Learning.*

New to all this but really love watching and learning!,

Would anyone want to comment on this as a potential speedline candidate, if all the right ropes were packed? It seems like some good anchors are in the back. May have been too far away though....

Bob.


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## murphy4trees

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that I haven't seen such a slow and clumsy takedown in years.. Terrible cuts, terrible overhead anchor, terrible rope work by the groundie, totally uneccesay and a huge waste of time and energy. unecessary to leave those stubs. Cutting pieces way to small. painful to watch.. I could go into a lot more detail if I took the time to watch closely and take notes..

Anyone who thinks that was good technical rigging has never seen good technical rigging... I also think that a good faller could have set up some padding logs and dropped it across the drive (at some point) without touching the new 'crete.

I know that is a slap in the face to many, and I apologize. It makes me sound like a condescending snob, but it just happens to be true... Unfortunately there aren't enough people on this site that know first class rigging, to have the critical mass to tell the rest of you all that there is a better way.. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut... like my mother said, "if you have nothing nice to say.. say nothing"... But on the other hand maybe something could be learned here... So if you'd like to learn something, just ask... Otherwise I'll keep my mouth shut...


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## oldirty

murphy4trees said:


> So if you'd like to learn something, just ask... Otherwise I'll keep my mouth shut...





i am going to pretend you were talking to me.

ok mullet.....i mean murph. what would you have done differently? 

and just out of curiosity how you going to fell a tree INSIDE the roof line without removing part of the house? i am not going to watch the vid again but i am pretty sure that that part of the roof was built around the tree. anyway.

did the guy who put this video say that it was going to be a ground breaking precedent setting rigging expose'? no. he said it was an oak inside the roof line with some technical rigging to it. anything broken afterwards? nope. then to me , thats a good effort. which i commended. would i have done something different? maybe a few things but thats the beauty of tree work. its just like a haircut man. some go with short hair, some with long hair, and then some go with both. 

btw your stance on pot smokers is about as laughable as your mullet is. i smoke(d) more pot than bob marley ever did and i still am a better tree guy than 95% of the guys out there. round here anyway. next time you are in beantown, let me know. i'll be glad to put a demonstration for ya.


signed yours truly, the other condescending arrogant ass hole of AS.


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## Raymond

You did a fine job, don't let murphy get to ya.

He has a thing for watching guys run threw trees 
ringing bells but not actually doing the work.


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## tree MDS

oldirty said:


> i am going to pretend you were talking to me.
> 
> ok mullet.....i mean murph. what would you have done differently?
> 
> and just out of curiosity how you going to fell a tree INSIDE the roof line without removing part of the house? i am not going to watch the vid again but i am pretty sure that that part of the roof was built around the tree. anyway.
> 
> did the guy who put this video say that it was going to be a ground breaking precedent setting rigging expose'? no. he said it was an oak inside the roof line with some technical rigging to it. anything broken afterwards? nope. then to me , thats a good effort. which i commended. would i have done something different? maybe a few things but thats the beauty of tree work. its just like a haircut man. some go with short hair, some with long hair, and then some go with both.
> 
> btw your stance on pot smokers is about as laughable as your mullet is. i smoke(d) more pot than bob marley ever did and i still am a better tree guy than 95% of the guys out there. round here anyway. next time you are in beantown, let me know. i'll be glad to put a demonstration for ya.
> 
> 
> signed yours truly, the other condescending arrogant ass hole of AS.



This is a truely beutiful post oldirty, I couldnt agree more, I almost commented on what a good job that was way back, but decided not to bother for whatever reason. I'm not gonna watch it again right now but yeah, good job! At least he didnt need a crane (not that it wouldnt have been nice) like some people would insist on. Old school! Nice! Guy figured it out for himself.

Murpf, that mullet must be gettin too long or something, maybe she's going sour or evil on you?? I dunno, just chill a little dude, its just a little treework! I for one aint gonna run around like some 20 year old trying to ring some gay bell at a comp on every friggin tree job! 

Get real and get a haircut dude. better yet, maybe I get my polesaw and trim that puppy right up nice for ya, lol.


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## tree md

LOL, too funny OD. 

Good job to the OP.


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## treeclimber101

I must have watched a different removal , In my limited exposure to tree work I thought you did a flawless job in a tough , tight area . Why ever take the chance of cracking any concrete or doing any damage to the house. If the job is sold right then you have the time to do it right....


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## tree MDS

treeclimber101 said:


> I must have watched a different removal , In my limited exposure to tree work I thought you did a flawless job in a tough , tight area . Why ever take the chance of cracking any concrete or doing any damage to the house. If the job is sold right then you have the time to do it right....



I guess it wasnt up to mullet snuff. You know, "World Class".


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## treeclimber101

I should have taken some pics of this herendous buttonwood we removed yesterday and half the day today, I think I'll be coughing fiberglass for a week..


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## oldirty

tree mds said:


> better yet, maybe i get my polesaw and trim that puppy right up nice for ya, lol.




lol!!!!


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## ggttp

*Hey!!!!!*

Havn't been on in a while, If you watch the video felling was not an option. New crete, in house, and if you look the only way possible to fell is directly into another tree. Not Good, plus if by chance I did break the concrete I would be losing money. All those risks add up to not worth it. If I had my way I would have had my HiRanger and a Crane, but with the location of the tree it would not have been possible.


To Murphy:

I was running the porty that day, and I would like to know exactly how you would have liked me to lower the limbs down?
As for my climber I started training him a couple years ago, so he is a little new. 
For taking small limbs why do I have to take them huge?

I havn't seen any of your videos so post one so I can see how a pro does it.

P.S. I love the porty. Easy to use, Quick to set up, And smooth operation even at very high loads. And my mini loader.

Thanks for watching and commenting,


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## Raymond

ggttp said:


> Havn't been on in a while, If you watch the video felling was not an option. New crete, in house, and if you look the only way possible to fell is directly into another tree. Not Good, plus if by chance I did break the concrete I would be losing money. All those risks add up to not worth it. If I had my way I would have had my HiRanger and a Crane, but with the location of the tree it would not have been possible.
> 
> 
> To Murphy:
> 
> I was running the porty that day, and I would like to know exactly how you would have liked me to lower the limbs down?
> As for my climber I started training him a couple years ago, so he is a little new.
> For taking small limbs why do I have to take them huge?
> 
> I havn't seen any of your videos so post one so I can see how a pro does it.
> 
> P.S. I love the porty. Easy to use, Quick to set up, And smooth operation even at very high loads. And my mini loader.
> 
> Thanks for watching and commenting,


Ya did a fine job brotha. 
Don't let ol' Murphy get to ya, he's like that.




Besides loosing money or not, breaking concrete, who needs that headache?


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## murphy4trees

*My credentials*

It's hard to know what the poster's level of knowledge and skill are on sites like these. You could have 5 low level skilled posters all saying the same thing and you would think they probably know what they are talking about. Unless you know better. And the reputation feature is more about popularity in your clique than any representation of real world knowledge.

So here is some of my background and experience.

Been a self employes professional arborist since 1981. I now pay the mortgage on over 1 million dollars worth of real estate.

Have written two lead articles in TCIA magazine, July '04 on the tapered hinge and June '06, the fundamentals and fine points of footlocking. Tom Dunlap said of the latter article that it was the most complete and informative article on the subjest that had ever been published in writing or video at the time. I made the cover photo in both issues.

I was invited to speak by the ISA at their International Tree Symposium in 2004. 

I AM a hands on arborist. Most weeks I work 5 or more days in the field. I have run crews that have put $11k in trees on the ground in one day with the crane. I regularly produce $75-100/man/hour even in this economy. I have rigged and or dropped many trees that other companies were going to use a crane on.

My mentor, Jon Grier, was the top take down man for the most reputable tree service in the philly suburbs. He did monster removals everyday for years. He learned a lot from his co-worker Jim Roach, a 7 time winner of the penn-del isa tcc. I can't put into words the level these guys are climbing at. You'd have to see it to understand.

I own all my equipment. Its paid for. Have over 500 hours personally running the Rayco super rg-50. I worked hugo in '89 and Isabel in 2004, and Charlie, Jean and Francis in 2005. 

I won the aerial rescue at the isa Penn-del chapter wetern division TCC in 2006. That was only the second time I had ever done a rescue. I also timed 78 seconds in the footlock that year. That is cerainly not fast, but at least I can footlock. 

I have a lot of knowledge and experience and I AM willing to share it when it recieves the respect it is due. So what are you all here for? (Yes, genated my delivery sucked.. I was in a pssy mood that day.) Are you here to learn or not?
Seems like many here would prefer to make fun of my hair (granted that was funny) than learn something. So who are you going to listen to.. the guy that doesn't own a porta-wrap or me?

So I'll amswer GGs question:

You took too many wraps on those pieces. The first shot of climber shows him unecessarily one-handing the saw (which he does throughout the video) above his head. That is a dangerous practice, especially for an inexperienced climber. There is a reason why ANSI rules against that. In the second shot, the climber is improperly positioned relative to the cut, either from fear, laziness or possibly from not having his TIP point high enough. 
Then in that same shot you are standing too far away from the porty, with too many wraps. There was slack between you and the porty as you walked up to take the wraps off You edited out taking the wraps off. So it took you at least 20 seconds to get that piece to drop from the time it was cut, maybe more. That is a waste of time. It adds up if you do that 30-60 times a day. Not only is it a waste of time. You have no control to let the piece run, which can cause them hanging up on the stubs (which shouldn't have been left there in the first place). The video shows a close up of the porty with 3 wraps on it. There was no piece on that video that needed more than 1 wrap.
Also when you just automatically just take three wraps you don;t get a good feel for letting a piece run, which you may have to do in a very controlled way in critical situations. So it is good to practice in non critical situations.

It would have also been better to have the porty on ground level, though you may have had your reasons for working from the roof. Perhaps the rope was not long enough. You could have laced the lowering line around the house with a little care, which would have put two extra hnads on the ground where they were needed.

What's wrong with taking a piece in two (or three!) when it could be easily and safely taken in 1, is again time. All those mistakes add up... at the end of the day, you could have saved 2-3 hours. 

Those are the answers to your questions. I made notes of 15 mistakes made in that video. Many of them multiple times. So does anybody want to learn from this video? Yes or no... either post or rep to speak your truth.


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## treeclimber101

murphy4trees said:


> It's hard to know what the poster's level of knowledge and skill are on sites like these. You could have 5 low level skilled posters all saying the same thing and you would think they probably know what they are talking about. Unless you know better. And the reputation feature is more about popularity in your clique than any representation of real world knowledge.
> 
> So here is some of my background and experience.
> 
> Been a self employes professional arborist since 1981. I now pay the mortgage on over 1 million dollars worth of real estate.
> 
> Have written two lead articles in TCIA magazine, July '04 on the tapered hinge and June '06, the fundamentals and fine points of footlocking. Tom Dunlap said of the latter article that it was the most complete and informative article on the subjest that had ever been published in writing or video at the time. I made the cover photo in both issues.
> 
> I was invited to speak by the ISA at their International Tree Symposium in 2004.
> 
> I AM a hands on arborist. Most weeks I work 5 or more days in the field. I have run crews that have put $11k in trees on the ground in one day with the crane. I regularly produce $75-100/man/hour even in this economy. I have rigged and or dropped many trees that other companies were going to use a crane on.
> 
> My mentor, Jon Grier, was the top take down man for the most reputable tree service in the philly suburbs. He did monster removals everyday for years. He learned a lot from his co-worker Jim Roach, a 7 time winner of the penn-del isa tcc. I can't put into words the level these guys are climbing at. You'd have to see it to understand.
> 
> I own all my equipment. Its paid for. Have over 500 hours personally running the Rayco super rg-50. I worked hugo in '89 and Isabel in 2004, and Charlie, Jean and Francis in 2005.
> 
> I won the aerial rescue at the isa Penn-del chapter wetern division TCC in 2006. That was only the second time I had ever done a rescue. I also timed 78 seconds in the footlock that year. That is cerainly not fast, but at least I can footlock.
> 
> I have a lot of knowledge and experience and I AM willing to share it when it recieves the respect it is due. So what are you all here for? (Yes, genated my delivery sucked.. I was in a pssy mood that day.) Are you here to learn or not?
> Seems like many here would prefer to make fun of my hair (granted that was funny) than learn something. So who are you going to listen to.. the guy that doesn't own a porta-wrap or me?
> 
> So I'll amswer GGs question:
> 
> You took too many wraps on those pieces. The first shot of climber shows him unecessarily one-handing the saw (which he does throughout the video) above his head. That is a dangerous practice, especially for an inexperienced climber. There is a reason why ANSI rules against that. In the second shot, the climber is improperly positioned relative to the cut, either from fear, laziness or possibly from not having his TIP point high enough.
> Then in that same shot you are standing too far away from the porty, with too many wraps. There was slack between you and the porty as you walked up to take the wraps off You edited out taking the wraps off. So it took you at least 20 seconds to get that piece to drop from the time it was cut, maybe more. That is a waste of time. It adds up if you do that 30-60 times a day. Not only is it a waste of time. You have no control to let the piece run, which can cause them hanging up on the stubs (which shouldn't have been left there in the first place). The video shows a close up of the porty with 3 wraps on it. There was no piece on that video that needed more than 1 wrap.
> Also when you just automatically just take three wraps you don;t get a good feel for letting a piece run, which you may have to do in a very controlled way in critical situations. So it is good to practice in non critical situations.
> 
> It would have also been better to have the porty on ground level, though you may have had your reasons for working from the roof. Perhaps the rope was not long enough. You could have laced the lowering line around the house with a little care, which would have put two extra hnads on the ground where they were needed.
> 
> What's wrong with taking a piece in two (or three!) when it could be easily and safely taken in 1, is again time. All those mistakes add up... at the end of the day, you could have saved 2-3 hours.
> 
> Those are the answers to your questions. I made notes of 15 mistakes made in that video. Many of them multiple times. So does anybody want to learn from this video? Yes or no... either post or rep to speak your truth.



Murphy, I will never come on here and bash someone elses work ,it just not me, with that being said I do appreciate your level of expertise in the field of tree work . I think ultimately the methods of removal fall solely on the people removing the tree . I thought the video was a clean no damage video and I have no idea how much they were paid and time allowed for that removal. My opinion still stands at this : if you are charging well then why rush its that simple, and though I clearly do not have your credentials I stick to that philosophy and enjoy my work daily...


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## ggttp

*Wow!!!*

That is impressive, you know all those things you said. 

Still where is your video? You know to show us how it is done.

Take a camera in to work with you and share, with all that money I'm sure you can afford one.

I am not the kind of person that rushes, and usually I take them as big as possible. But that day I just wanted to take my time, plus like I said did not have all my gear.

So if you want to rush your guys go ahead.

Yeah I did stand to far back from the porty, but I really don't like being struck in the head by swinging limbs. For putting so many wraps on, if I had to help push the limb out from the house I could have let go and it would have held plus I can always take some off (not a real difficult task and I think it takes 3 sec. not 20).

Let me guess the logs at the end you would have cut them then carried them down on your shoulder.

Maybe I should have brought in my helicopter, that would have made it go faster for sure.

P.S. I don't see how running a stump grinder is impressive?


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## Raymond

I bet I have more trees under my belt than Murphy. I'm Just sayin'


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## Raymond

Raymond said:


> I bet I have more trees under my belt than Murphy. I'm Just sayin'


And more repeat customers too..just sayin'


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## Raymond

I had a guy (Jim) that use to work for me. I called him Get-r-don. 
Because he spent so much time talking about how he got-r-don...he didn't get anything done.


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## extremewoodwork

*Learning*

Thanks for the thread! I just learned a neat new trick.


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## JohnH

opcorn: This is great.


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## rbtree

Reg said:


> Hey you're method for rigging that trunk was a good solution. Well thought out



It sure was, Reg!

Good job, gg. The wood rigging was very cool, and innovative, the branch work was so so....but you gotter dun...


Murph, you really stepped in it this time. Time to reign in that hat size, methinx. I thought mine was big... and I've been climbing since 1975...


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## Rftreeman

oldirty said:


> i am going to pretend you were talking to me.
> 
> ok mullet.....i mean murph. what would you have done differently?
> 
> and just out of curiosity how you going to fell a tree INSIDE the roof line without removing part of the house? i am not going to watch the vid again but i am pretty sure that that part of the roof was built around the tree. anyway.
> 
> did the guy who put this video say that it was going to be a ground breaking precedent setting rigging expose'? no. he said it was an oak inside the roof line with some technical rigging to it. anything broken afterwards? nope. then to me , thats a good effort. which i commended. would i have done something different? maybe a few things but thats the beauty of tree work. its just like a haircut man. some go with short hair, some with long hair, and then some go with both.
> 
> btw your stance on pot smokers is about as laughable as your mullet is. i smoke(d) more pot than bob marley ever did and i still am a better tree guy than 95% of the guys out there. round here anyway. next time you are in beantown, let me know. i'll be glad to put a demonstration for ya.
> 
> 
> signed yours truly, the other condescending arrogant ass hole of AS.



no, you da man.............tried to rep but I got to spread it around some first.

from another one of the condescending arrogant ass holes of AS....lol

Is that a mullet or Goldilock curls............

Now y'all stop picking on murph.


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## Raymond

You guys on the mullet thing again.
I better go to another thread.


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## Rftreeman

murphy4trees said:


> I made notes of 15 mistakes made in that video. Many of them multiple times. So does anybody want to learn from this video? Yes or no... either post or rep to speak your truth.


maybe you should have been a kindergarten school teacher with the way you want to grade everyone on their work, you boast about yourself but we have never seen any pictures other than the ones you take to bash someone else 
so what's up with that?


why don't you grade me on this I'm sure you'll find many mistakes as you call them (I'll give you the stubs) but you know what, it was done without damage and no one got hurt and we got paid......seriously, tell me the mistakes you see.

oh yeah, it took 2.5 hours from the time we pulled up to the time we left including a break and it pulled $120 per man hr, could have got more but he is the pastor.


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## Raymond

Murphy?



:monkey:


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## treemandan

murphy4trees said:


> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that I haven't seen such a slow and clumsy takedown in years.. Terrible cuts, terrible overhead anchor, terrible rope work by the groundie, totally uneccesay and a huge waste of time and energy. unecessary to leave those stubs. Cutting pieces way to small. painful to watch.. I could go into a lot more detail if I took the time to watch closely and take notes..
> 
> Anyone who thinks that was good technical rigging has never seen good technical rigging... I also think that a good faller could have set up some padding logs and dropped it across the drive (at some point) without touching the new 'crete.
> 
> I know that is a slap in the face to many, and I apologize. It makes me sound like a condescending snob, but it just happens to be true... Unfortunately there aren't enough people on this site that know first class rigging, to have the critical mass to tell the rest of you all that there is a better way.. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut... like my mother said, "if you have nothing nice to say.. say nothing"... But on the other hand maybe something could be learned here... So if you'd like to learn something, just ask...
> 
> 
> Otherwise I'll keep my mouth shut...



Do you promise?


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## treemandan

It was that bad. Somebody can do better. Murphy, I will see you in the morning.


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## newsawtooth

*Passed inspection*

Was that tree load bearing? I know they could have incorporated it into the architecture more if they concentrated. There is no reason that it shouldn't have had siding on it.


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## clearance

Murph, take it easy there buddy, you could be thought of as getting a little big for your britches. 

I brought that old "tapered hinge" thread you bragged of here up. 

You did treework since the early '80s but didn't know to leave more holding wood opposite the lean until 2004-5? Wow.


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## treeclimber101

clearance said:


> Murph, take it easy there buddy, you could be thought of as getting a little big for your britches.
> 
> I brought that old "tapered hinge" thread you bragged of here up.
> 
> You did treework since the early '80s but didn't know to leave more holding wood opposite the lean until 2004-5? Wow.


Well, you know I'm a complete idiot and I learned that my first week back in 69'


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## treemandan

treeclimber101 said:


> Well, you know I'm a complete idiot and I learned that my first week back in 69'



They had trees back then?


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## treeclimber101

treemandan said:


> They had trees back then?


yea they were real small back then because people didn't get so tall you know.. I'm close if you ever need a bucket truck or a hand I can always use the extra money...


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## treemandan

TreeCo said:


> I think Murphy was being a little harsh on the tree work but for sure he's seen bigger and better rigging done.
> 
> I think the horizontal line used to rig out the trunk chunks was a good idea and one I've used before....but I'd bet those loads were way over 10% of the breaking strength of that rope. A better but more time consuming rig would be to rig off of the trunk and use the horizontal line as a drift line to lower away from the house. This would take the shock loading off of the horizontal line. Forces multiply really quickly when loading a line stretched between two points as in the video.
> 
> If anyone wants an Excel spread sheet on the forces created on a line such as was used send me your email address in a PM and I'll send it on to you. You can put in the weights you want and the formulas will work out the forces generated. This spread sheet was posted on another forum by Dave Spencer some years ago and I would attach it but .xls files are not supported here.
> 
> Great job!



Some say 10 some say 20%. You bet that system took a beating. Man, what if something broke? Would you catch it on the way out or the way back in? I don't know. Timing is everything.
I was just scabbing off some sections like that, just a backcut, snap the bark with my lanyard while the groundies kept enough tension on the tag line. I am getting lazy.
There must have been a few way to take this tree down, most likely I would have used a zipline for the top and seen to what to do about dropping the trunk.
So it wasn't done like that, so small limbs were sent down ( I know it can be painful to watch) but we ask why and we get told and it makes good sense.


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## yooper

looked like a fun tree to do, great video, looked like a close one at around 2min 49 seconds, good thing the saw didnt bit you or the the rigging rope. enjoyed the the classical music, I would have dropped the spar much longer than a couple feet too......did enjoy!


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## tree md

LOL, guys, we can dis Murph all we want to but no doubt he knows his chit. I have learned a thing or two from him over the years. I know he gets big for his britches but he is a good resource to have around here.

Murph, you need to grow the #### up and give credit where it is due.


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## murphy4trees

*a make up*

OK,
I have been thinkin’ about my original post and want to apologize to GGTP and all others that were in any way offended by it. It was unnecessarily rude and mean spirited. My judgments about the work haven’t changed, but I certainly feel ashamed of the way I presented them on this forum. My words were written out of anger, not love. 

When judgments are expressed in that harsh and direct a way, not much good can come of it. It is very divisive. People either line up with you or against you. And certainly it puts the original poster in such a defensive stance that he moves into a flight or flight mode, so he really can’t learn much. 

I was feeling angry about a personal issue at the time and see that my anger was improperly directed at the posters on this site. And this is not an apology because apologies don’t mean squat. I will go back and edit my original post, and I know that that bell can’t be un-rung. SO I would like to offer a make up to GG and others. In the new warrior way we offer make ups to those we have offended, some simple act of service to get back into integrity. I shot a video of a tree job on Friday, which synchronistically shows many of the things that I think could have been done differently in GG’s video. I took the day off work yesterday and edited it. And would like to offer it as a make up to the folks here at AS. 

My name is Daniel Murphy and I have always tried to make Murphy’s Law happen in reverse, turning some mistake into something good. SO I appreciate GG’s challenge to show my own video. This video would have never been made if it weren’t for GG’s challenge and the fact that my original post was so rude. I think there is a lot of valuable info that can be gleaned by the careful observer, so I AM hoping to turn this situation around from something negative into something positive.

The only hold-up right now is that the video is 26 minutes long. That is too long for youtube and I’d rather not chop it up into three parts, so I was hoping to post it to google video, and I was having some difficulty doing that yesterday. Any suggestions as to how to get this thing online?
Thanks..


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## Adkpk

treeclimber101 said:


> yea they were real small back then because people didn't get so tall you know.. I'm close if you ever need a bucket truck or a hand I can always use the extra money...



This is a perfect example of turning a slanty but funny remark into a capital idea.


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## Raymond

*I'm new here but this is the way I see it...*

Murphy all I've seen from you is criticism or blowing your own horn.
You're all that, you've made that clear. Sure we are all open to learn something but this is also suppose to be fun. 

Do you ever laugh Murphy? Other than when you see something that someone posts in here that you would of done different?

Like I said we're all here for fun and yes learn but you can't nominate yourself to be the teacher..and if you do...well we like to make fun of teachers.


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## treeclimber101

Raymond said:


> Murphy all I've seen from you is criticism or blowing your own horn.
> You're all that, you've made that clear. Sure we are all open to learn something but this is also suppose to be fun.
> 
> Do you ever laugh Murphy? Other than when you see something that someone posts in here that you would of done different?
> 
> Like I said we're all here for fun and yes learn but you can't nominate yourself to be the teacher..and if you do...well we like to make fun of teachers.


Its 9 in the morning why aren't you working there are trees calling our name right now , all you have to do is listen for it...lol


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## Raymond

treeclimber101 said:


> Its 9 in the morning why aren't you working there are trees calling our name right now , all you have to do is listen for it...lol


I hear ya, I should of been gone quicker.
I ain't gonna lie to ya. (I didn't vote for Bush) I didn't have a job to do today.
I did had a couple estimates though. I like to wait a little and act like my guys are on a job and we could be over later. If it's something we could do on a late start.

Did I get'em? NOPE!


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## treeclimber101

Raymond said:


> I hear ya, I should of been gone quicker.
> I ain't gonna lie to ya. (I didn't vote for Bush) I didn't have a job to do today.
> I did had a couple estimates though. I like to wait a little and act like my guys are on a job and we could be over later. If it's something we could do on a late start.
> 
> Did I get'em? NOPE!



Me neither , we did maintenance and firewood , looked at some work but thats OK I can take a few days and regroup ....


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## tree md

treeclimber101 said:


> Me neither , we did maintenance and firewood , looked at some work but thats OK I can take a few days and regroup ....



I changed u-Joints on on the pickup. Ground is really too saturated to get where I need to go to do my big tree (got to watch out for septic tank laterals). I got 11 stumps to grind Fri. but it's supposed to rain all week. Hopefully the weather will break and allow me to do some work this week.

Oh yeah, hope you get the vid uploaded Murph. Looking forward to seeing it. Nice gesture in your last post.


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## Raymond

*You guys would of been proud of me*

I ran a bid about an hour ago. The lady said on the phone she wanted a tree topped. I didn't bring it up on the phone but waited till I got there to tell her it wasn't a good idea. And explained why.

I figured it was just going to be another silver maple, we have so many here. But no it was a (going to be beautiful) mulberry. I explained I can't find myself to topping this tree. Let me clean it out of all the dead and all the little crud (keeping it simple for her) throughout the tree.

She will be giving me the go on it tomorrow. Not yet but she will. She said I come highly recommended from her daughter and her daughter's neighbor.
I explained she will also be very pleased as well , cause that's just how we roll.


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## tree md

Raymond said:


> I ran a bid about an hour ago. The lady said on the phone she wanted a tree topped. I didn't bring it up on the phone but waited till I got there to tell her it wasn't a good idea. And explained why.
> 
> I figured it was just going to be another silver maple, we have so many here. But no it was a (going to be beautiful) mulberry. I explained I can't find myself to topping this tree. Let me clean it out of all the dead and all the little crud (keeping it simple for her) throughout the tree.
> 
> She will be giving me the go on it tomorrow. Not yet but she will. She said I come highly recommended from her daughter and her daughter's neighbor.
> I explained she will also be very pleased as well , cause that's just how we roll.



Good on you Ray.

To tell the truth, I don't want my name on a topped tree. I see so many going down the road in our rural areas and even inside the city but especially in the rural areas where it looks like somebody rented a lift and just went down the road topping trees all in a row. I feel the best customer is an educated customer and I don't want the people who are educated and usually spending the biggest bucks asking someone who topped their tree (and thinking to themselves that they want to steer far clear of whoever did) and have my name pop up.


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## Raymond

tree md said:


> Good on you Ray.
> 
> To tell the truth, I don't want my name on a topped tree. I see so many going down the road in our rural areas and even inside the city but especially in the rural areas where it looks like somebody rented a lift and just went down the road topping trees all in a row. I feel the best customer is an educated customer and I don't want the people who are educated and usually spending the biggest bucks asking someone who topped their tree (and thinking to themselves that they want to steer far clear of whoever did) and have my name pop up.


I really do try and keep it to a minimum. And I am going to work at it even harder yet. When I can't change their minds, I am kind of a smart ass about it.
I refer to it as hammer phucking or hammer slamming it, depending on the company I'm talking to. And I also tell them to have my card laminated and keep it in a safe place because I will be back often from here on out.

Them trees out in the open in the country topped is silly isn't it? :agree2:


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## tree md

Raymond said:


> I really do try and keep it to a minimum. And I am going to work at it even harder yet. When I can't change their minds, I am kind of a smart ass about it.
> I refer to it as hammer phucking or hammer slamming it, depending on the company I'm talking to. And I also tell them to have my card laminated and keep it in a safe place because I will be back often from here on out.
> 
> Them trees out in the open in the country topped is silly isn't it? :agree2:



LOL, I'm thinking about taking pics of all the trees that are hat racked on just one road out here where I live. I actually saw the guy doing it. He rented a 40' lift and just went down the row hat racking trees. Oh well, Job security I guess.


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## Raymond

tree md said:


> LOL, I'm thinking about taking pics of all the trees that are hat racked on just one road out here where I live. I actually saw the guy doing it. He rented a 40' lift and just went down the row hat racking trees. Oh well, Job security I guess.


I see that here too. On my home from the bid just tonight, I seen this used car lot, that has about 6 to 8 small bradford's, I think. Every year they top these thing HARD. I know it's because of the bird crap on the cars. So why not just take them down or not plant them there in the first place. If I think about it I'll take some pics.


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## murphy4trees

*here's the link*

http://www.yousendit.com/download/dVlwVWRnT01ENlNGa1E9PQ

Video is 26 minutes.. too long for youtube.. So you have to download it.. kinda long download at 96 MB... I sent the link to Eric, who may be abe to host it himself, though I haven't heard back from him. Will only be up for another 4-5 days and max downloads will be 100..

I tried to upload it onto google video, to no avail. I could break it up into 3 segments and put it on youtube, but would rather not do that.

This was only my second attempt at video editing.. Movie maker is so easy to edit with... nothing fancy... just one voice over.. no music. I was surprised at how well the audio came out... quiet neighborhood and good camera mic on the sony mini dv camcorder. You can hear the climber at 75', no problem.

So this is a large leaning oak removal. Thing was tall.. maybe 90'.. We started it at 6:30 on a Friday evening april 24. You can see how relaxed the climber is. Certainly not "rushing".. I did make one major mistake... sideloaded the lowering line on the first butt hitch. New guy was supposed to let it run, but didn't.. I should have taken that line. And really should have used a ground anchor on the tree being removed or at least used a redirect. If I was rushing at all, it was in not taking the time to set that up. New groundie did let it run OK on the second piece. 

I'll field your questions or comments on the video. After that I AM out here.


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## Adkpk

Thanks Dan. Your climber Pat was pretty good at slinging that rope around. Nice job on the video. Clean to the point and looked safe for a not so safe looking tree.


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## tree md

Nice vid Murph. Pat did a great job. I like seeing climbers around my age and having my physique getting it up in a tree.


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## tree MDS

I expected to see something a little more grand after all that downloading (and spouting off, lol) but... not too bad murpf. Obviously you guys got a good handle on lines and rigging. 

PITA looking leaner - thank god there was that sweet tip eh?? I hate leaners.

Other than that... i think I would have made it up that thing much faster than that with the old taughtline, It seemed a little overkill with the ground guy tending the slack and all. I played around with the blakes and pulley when it first came around like that but lost interest in that knot. I havent bothered to try the other hitches yet, but eventually. When I get up there and start rigging 30' leaders down it really doesnt seem to matter all that much...oh, theyre busy...time for a smoke. lol

True blue for rigging.. not so much, 9/16 DB works fine for me and is way stronger. Let it run if you want stretch or whatever. 1/2 inch lines are fine for a butt line or tag line but thats about it as far as rigging with them for me.

Thanks for posting that though, good job.

PS, I see the dew's still rockin it, lol.


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## tree md

tree MDS said:


> I expected to see something a little more grand after all that downloading (and spouting off, lol) but... not too bad murpf. Obviously you guys got a good handle on lines and rigging.
> 
> PITA looking leaner - thank god there was that sweet tip eh?? I hate leaners.
> 
> Other than that... i think I would have made it up that thing much faster than that with the old taughtline, It seemed a little overkill with the ground guy tending the slack and all. I played around with the blakes and pulley when it first came around like that but lost interest in that knot. I havent bothered to try the other hitches yet, but eventually. When I get up there and start rigging 30' leaders down it really doesnt seem to matter all that much...oh, theyre busy...time for a smoke. lol
> 
> True blue for rigging.. not so much, 9/16 DB works fine for me and is way stronger. Let it run if you want stretch or whatever. 1/2 inch lines are fine for a butt line or tag line but thats about it as far as rigging with them for me.
> 
> Thanks for posting that though, good job.
> 
> PS, I see the dew's still rockin it, lol.



I almost always have someone belay for me. I don't use a friction hitch or lanyard til I get to the top though. I'll shoot a line in the tree, set my climbing line, tie in to my D and just free climb with a belay until I get to my TIP. Very quick way to get into the tree and set up. You need to trust you rope man who is belaying for you though :greenchainsaw:.

I also use 1/2" safety blue to rig with. 7700# tensile and it works great. Plus I always have a spare because I use it as one of my climbing lines as well. I just use a retired climbing line for a rigging line. I use to climb on true blue when I first started and would use a retired true blue climbing line to lower with as well. I had zero problems using true blue to lower with.


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## tree MDS

I use safety blue to climb and as a butt line or tag line to pull stuff with.

Bigger cuts, like I like to make on big trees, 1/2 inch just doesnt give me the piece of mind (for the tip line anyways), I use a 200' 9/16 DB - although it would be nice to have a shorter one often, like she said... 

Having watched the OP's vid again, no that is not the way I would have rigged the brush, but the wood was cool I thought (like some others said).


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## tree md

tree MDS said:


> I use safety blue to climb and as a butt line or tag line to pull stuff with.
> 
> Bigger cuts, like I like to make on big trees, 1/2 inch just doesnt give me the piece of mind (for the tip line anyways), I use a 200' 9/16 DB - although it would be nice to have a shorter one often, like she said...
> 
> Having watched the OP's vid again, no that is not the way I would have rigged the brush, but the wood was cool I thought (like some others said).



I hear ya, I use 3/4 DB for the heavy stuff but most of what I rig comes down with the 1/2 safety blue. I have the utmost confidence in this rope. Been lowering with it for probably 15 years. I have hung whole small pines with this rope.


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## tree MDS

tree md said:


> I hear ya, I use 3/4 DB for the heavy stuff but most of what I rig comes down with the 1/2 safety blue. I have the utmost confidence in this rope. Been lowering with it for probably 15 years. I have hung whole small pines with this rope.



Yeah I got one of those for the trunk stuff only usually - if it needs it. I like the smaller one because I can move it around with three sections of pole saw so I dont have to squirrill around for no reason in order to tip tie a leader. It might sound like a pain to some of you but when youve been doing it for fourteen years or so like that it gets real efficient. I learned to rig old school and have added alot of other tricks along the way - with more coming as need arises. You know how it is: whatever it takes to do it as quickly and as safe as possible (while still taking calculated risks).

BTW I've been climbing for longer than 14 yrs, thats just about the time I learned the tip tie/butt tie method is all. Big leaders with two lines and take em right at the trunk... bye! The theory was to make as few cuts as possible and still be relatively safe. Thats why I like the bigger rope on the tip tie.


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## tree md

tree MDS said:


> Yeah I got one of those for the trunk stuff only usually - if it needs it. I like the smaller one because I can move it around with three sections of pole saw so I dont have to squirrill around for no reason in order to tip tie a leader. It might sound like a pain to some of you but when youve been doing it for fourteen years or so like that it gets real efficient. I learned to rig old school and have added alot of other tricks along the way - with more coming as need arises. You know how it is: whatever it takes to do it as quickly and as safe as possible (while still taking calculated risks).
> 
> BTW I've been climbing for longer than 14 yrs, thats just about the time I learned the tip tie/butt tie method is all. Big leaders with two lines and take em right at the trunk... bye! The theory was to make as few cuts as possible and still be relatively safe. Thats why I like the bigger rope on the tip tie.



That's why I like bigger rope period. Fewer cuts = more efficient removal. I try to bring them down in as big of pieces that will fit.


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## tree MDS

tree md said:


> That's why I like bigger rope period. Fewer cuts = more efficient removal. I try to bring them down in as big of pieces that will fit.



 on that one and rep coming

Sorry I guess I cant rep you again... what do I have to do go into the chainsaw forum and start giving it away to strangers or something??


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## Dadatwins

Nice work Daniel, curious about why you were afraid of the tree in the beginning, and rightly so, because of it being dead and 'not trusting the root system' and set up a separate lowering line for the brush, yet decided to butt hitch the heavy wood off the stem? A second lowering line in the poplar behind it looks like it would have had the same angle and drop spot with no bounce/risk to the climber, and might have been faster for the climber instead of having to move the rigging block several times. JMHO Nice work in a tight spot.


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## Raymond

Raymond said:


> I ran a bid about an hour ago. The lady said on the phone she wanted a tree topped. I didn't bring it up on the phone but waited till I got there to tell her it wasn't a good idea. And explained why.
> 
> I figured it was just going to be another silver maple, we have so many here. But no it was a (going to be beautiful) mulberry. I explained I can't find myself to topping this tree. Let me clean it out of all the dead and all the little crud (keeping it simple for her) throughout the tree.
> 
> She will be giving me the go on it tomorrow. Not yet but she will. She said I come highly recommended from her daughter and her daughter's neighbor.
> I explained she will also be very pleased as well , cause that's just how we roll.


 I was going to post the before and after pics of this Mulberry tree I cleaned out. But I'll wait till tomorrow. I don't wanna steal Murphy's thunder. 

Good job Murphy and the climber.  Just curious why you started so late?


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## Raymond

Before...





And after...





That small low bobbed limb on the right, yeah I polesawed it off before we left.


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## Glennak

Dadatwins said:


> Nice work Daniel, curious about why you were afraid of the tree in the beginning, and rightly so, because of it being dead and 'not trusting the root system' and set up a separate lowering line for the brush, yet decided to butt hitch the heavy wood off the stem? A second lowering line in the poplar behind it looks like it would have had the same angle and drop spot with no bounce/risk to the climber, and might have been faster for the climber instead of having to move the rigging block several times. JMHO Nice work in a tight spot.



I had the same thought. I didn't re-watch the video on this thread but I thought it was a good safe job; bigger pieces are not always faster but they often are. I would have told the rope man to get out from under the tree if he was any closer, why risk a branch on the head. I would agree with the too many wraps though.
I have been working on trees since the mid 70's and I don't have a mortgage on my Million dollar real estate.


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## Ghillie

:arg::arg::arg:


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