# Winch 101 Some Basics on Winch Ratings



## Swamp Yankee (Sep 28, 2008)

OK, as promised here's some basic info on winches. Let's just say this is chapter one. Depending upon response, questions, and how onery I am after writing this more may follow. 

Please before you beat me senseless read the following:
The information given here applies only to electric 12 and 24 volt winches built for consumer, off road & light duty use. Winches electric and hydraulic built for commercial applications fall under different guidelines that may be addressed in a different thread. (See previous paragraph)

How is a winch rated? I'll bet I could ask 20 different people and get 20 different answers.
It all starts with the drum and wire rope, not the motor or gearbox. Get into that later. The output of the gearbox is torque and is a fixed maximum value measured in lb-inches. (Load in lbs multiplied by the radius at which the load is applied) In essence its the same principle as a lever and fulcrum just applied radially.

Let's say the output torque to the drum, regardless of the motor hp, and gearbox ratio and efficiency, and bearing losses is 2000 lb-inches. If the drum diameter is 1-1/2 inches and the wire rope diameter is 3/16 inches, the effective radius of the load is (1-1/2 + 3/16) / 2 or 27/32 (.843 inches). It is assumed the load is applied at the center of the wire rope. Dividing 2000 lb inches by .843 inches says in theory the winch should pull a load of 2372 lbs on the first layer aka bare drum. If the same wire rope was put on a 2-1/2 inch dia drum and we do the math the same gearbox output will only allow a load of 1488 lbs. We'll use this information later if you haven't hit the back button yet. (By the way this rule applies to all winches commercial and consumer.)

Winch line pull is rated on the bare drum or first layer. So if a winch is rated at 2000 lbs that's what it will pull on the first layer. As layers increase or the cable builds up on one side of the drum the line pull drops. (It's our old friend the radius coming back to haunt.) There are specific formulas for calculating line pull loss as the layers increase but let's just say a line pull loss of 10 percent per layer is a good rule of thumb.

Ok enough with the theory lets talk specifics. *The rated line pull of a winch used to be defined as, the weight the winch could dead lift for 1 foot with a constant 12 volt, (24 Volt in some systems), on the first layer with 5 wraps of wire rope on the drum*. Five wraps were used as the wire rope anchor on all these winches is not intended to or required to hold the rated load.

There's a couple of flaws in this application. First in a mobile application, depending upon the battery, connections, lead wires, and system temperature you'll never maintain a 12 volt input. Second during this test the manufacturer may use equipment other than that supplied as standard to the consumer to test. (oh and they won't tell you) Things like 2 gauge wire instead of 10, solenoids with gold contacts, ambient temp of 30 degrees etc are often implemented. This doesn't apply to any one manufacturer they all have their own test set-ups. I would love to get my hands on some of the Chinese stuff and run a few experiments.

All this means is once installed a winch sold with a 3000 lb line pull probably will never get there. Oh it may show a load of 3000 lbs on a load cell put it isn't going to get a ton and a half off the ground.

Ok so we now know the load capacity of a winch is not exactly what it says it may be. A lot of people believe the winch rating is the load the winch will pull for it's entire wire rope length. Nope not true. Another rule of thumb, take the winch rating divide it by 5 and that's probably about the load it will pull for the full length of the wire rope. If you have a winch rated at 8000 lbs with 100 feet of wire rope, it will probably pull 1600 lbs the full length. The biggest thing you buy when you spend the money for a winch with a larger line pull rating is on time.

Consumer winches are not required to meet any standards for strength, though they do exist. Keep this in mind when thinking about a winch and what you'll be using it for. Winches are designed and intended for pulling not lifting. Never use a winch for lifting unless the manufacturer specifically rates it for crane or hoisting applications. 

Ok, I'm shot. If there is any additional interest I'd be willing to give some info on winch features, gearboxes, motors, brakes, mounting etc. None of which will make much sense until the winch rating concept is grasped. Give me your feedback, send PM's, or just tell me I'm full of it and go dry up. 

Take Care


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## 046 (Sep 28, 2008)

good info!~


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## KsWoodsMan (Sep 28, 2008)

Thinking about a new winch are we ? 

I dont blame you , I'm getting tired of loading 400# slabs by hand. With a good winch setup I could over load my truck much faster and head home sooner. But then I would just go back after more, quicker.


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## Swamp Yankee (Sep 28, 2008)

KsWoodsMan said:


> Thinking about a new winch are we ?
> 
> I dont blame you , I'm getting tired of loading 400# slabs by hand. With a good winch setup I could over load my truck much faster and head home sooner. But then I would just go back after more, quicker.



Nope, got all I need.

Should have explained at the beginning, in another thread on winches I let slip I used to design winches from 500 lb to 50,000 lbs for fifteen years. A few members expressed interest in learning more about winches so I obliged and started this thread. If there are other questions I'll try to answer them otherwise as I said before,
"just tell me I'm full of it and go dry up".

Take Care


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## Buckethead (Sep 28, 2008)

Thanks for the great information. Now you've piqued my curiosity....what exactly defines "off-road and light duty" use and how does it differ from commercial use? 

I'm also looking forward to the chapters on hydraulic and commercial winches. Where do PTO winches fall in this story?

Thanks again for sharing the information.


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## MR4WD (Sep 28, 2008)

You bring up many good points a lot of people take for granted "I just bought this cool 8000 pound winch for my truck, it only weighs 7000 pounds, it'll be good forever"

Yeah, on the last rap with your engine at 2000 RPM running 2 ought cable, on a good day.

I had some kind of hydro winch hooked up to a pump on the engine in an 04 f-350. It was only an 8000 pound winch (worm gear), I ran about 200' of 3/8 cable on it but that thing would easily outpull my 12,000 pound winch on my own pickup in any layer and faster.

How do electric hoists fall into this category? Better brakes?


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## Wet1 (Sep 28, 2008)

Nice write-up! If you don't mind continuing on, I'd love to learn more. You didn't by chance work for SW did you?

I recently purchased a used winch and made a portable plate and chain system for it, I've found it has come in handy a couple of times already.


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## Garfield (Sep 28, 2008)

*hydraulic winch on grapple*

I have a grapple truck that has the clam and rotate functions plumbed to the grapple. I have thought of putting a hydraulic winch on there with a couple ball valves to use existing spools etc. It would be handy b/c I could drag something across a lawn and make it "lighter by pulling with the boom up. Maybe this is crazy but you seem to be the man with the answers. Thanks for the thoughts.


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## patriot (Sep 28, 2008)

Nice write up.

What are the advantages of PTO and hydraulic winches. I would eventualy like to install a winch on my 3500 Ram. I have PTO capability and would consider it if its going to be stronger. I've been known to get stuck with a loaded trailer in the mud opcorn:


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## wdanforth (Sep 28, 2008)

Please professor Swamp Yankee continue are winch class. Great stuff. Based on your location I guess SW was your employer. I trashed one of their 1500 winches on my ATV. Pure and simple operator error and abuse.  That little winch got me out of many of jams and raised and lowered my snow plow too many times to count.

Eagerly awaiting lesson #2.


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## AOD (Sep 28, 2008)

Somebody not too long ago had pics of a 3-pt tractor winch he had made out of an old truck differential. It was pretty interesting. I'd imagine that thing would pull until the tractor motor stalled out.


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## Swamp Yankee (Sep 29, 2008)

Garfield said:


> I have a grapple truck that has the clam and rotate functions plumbed to the grapple. I have thought of putting a hydraulic winch on there with a couple ball valves to use existing spools etc. It would be handy b/c I could drag something across a lawn and make it "lighter by pulling with the boom up. Maybe this is crazy but you seem to be the man with the answers. Thanks for the thoughts.



Without knowing your set up, (pressure and flow) I can't really give a thumbs up or down.

It certainly sounds feasible. If you have a set of stack valves for the other functions, like Gressen, or Parker etc. it probably wouldn't be that much more to add section with a motor spool and a bolt kit. The other option is if the existing valves have a Power Beyond port that you can tap into just add a cheap spool valve and run that way. In either of those two options the plumbing would be much cleaner.

Hope this helps 

Take Care


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## Swamp Yankee (Sep 29, 2008)

MR4WD said:


> You bring up many good points a lot of people take for granted "I just bought this cool 8000 pound winch for my truck, it only weighs 7000 pounds, it'll be good forever"
> 
> Yeah, on the last rap with your engine at 2000 RPM running 2 ought cable, on a good day.
> 
> ...



Electric hoists are a whole different animal. The safety factors, ratings and drum diameters make them completely different from winches. For example, (off the top of my head) an 8000 lb winch properly modified might make a 1500 lb hoist.

Sorry for such a short answer but they really are different products for different applications.

Take Care


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## reachtreeservi (Sep 29, 2008)

What winch do you recommend for a F-250 diesel used as a tree service work truck ?

I'm looking for the stoutest one I can get for under a grand.


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## wkpoor (Sep 29, 2008)

I recently installed a 12K MM on my 24' deckover trailer. I know a little of the basics of winchology. Thats why I wanted a 12K as I know they really don't perform as one might think. After getting some time on the unit I'm sure glad I have at the least a 12K both for line speed and power. Pulling a full size truck or car on my trailer without a block proves just how misleading those rating are. Yes it has always done the job but sounds like there is quite a load on it pulling up the ramps. I can't imagine an 8K being capable of doing what the 12K does unless the ratings are way off between mfg's.


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## Swamp Yankee (Sep 29, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> What winch do you recommend for a F-250 diesel used as a tree service work truck ?
> 
> I'm looking for the stoutest one I can get for under a grand.



Where do you want to mount it & how do you want to power it?

Take Care


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## TJ-Bill (Sep 29, 2008)

Swamp..

I have a 9000lbs T-max and I'm running a Yellow Top Optima Battery. I was told that the top post on the battery are for winching and the side post are for your regular hook up.. Any idea why?


Thanks


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## Wet1 (Sep 29, 2008)

TJ-Bill said:


> Swamp..
> 
> I have a 9000lbs T-max and I'm running a Yellow Top Optima Battery. I was told that the top post on the battery are for winching and the side post are for your regular hook up.. Any idea why?
> 
> ...



Greater surface area on the top post, which gives you better transfer. They also put both styles on the batteries to make them more universal in application.


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## Swamp Yankee (Sep 29, 2008)

TJ-Bill said:


> Swamp..
> 
> I have a 9000lbs T-max and I'm running a Yellow Top Optima Battery. I was told that the top post on the battery are for winching and the side post are for your regular hook up.. Any idea why?
> 
> ...



Educated (?) guess

The side terminals are a pain to get 2 gauge cable hooked to, due to the large bending radius. Also the standard screw may not be long enough to get proper thread engagement when you add in the ring termination.

Top of the battery is much easier access and will allow you to get a master disconnect or circuit breaker wired in. The big cable should also have a straight shot to the terminal when coming up through the space between the grill and radiator. 

Take Care


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## reachtreeservi (Sep 29, 2008)

Swamp Yankee said:


> Where do you want to mount it & how do you want to power it?
> 
> Take Care



I want to mount it on the front and I'm open to whatever is the best way to power it.


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## 046 (Sep 29, 2008)

looking at a 8,000lb hydraulic winch .... how do they compare to electric?


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## MR4WD (Sep 30, 2008)

046 said:


> looking at a 8,000lb hydraulic winch .... how do they compare to electric?



It depends on the winch model. I think mine was braden or chelsea. Comparing something like those to even a 12,000 pound warn is like comparing a poulan to a big pro saw. I could hang my f-350 (dually) off of that deck winch even though it was only an 8000 pounder, but trying to get the same torque out of my m12000 is near impossible. Line speed had to be tripple under the same load and I had way more wire rope on the hydro winch.

Swamp Yankee: The reason I asked about hoists, is I'm sure years ago that I had an opportunity to get some 8274 LOOKING winches, but they were rated as hoists. They were around 3500 or 4000 pounds I think? Where as the similar looking winch was rated at 8000. I know I've never had good luck with any electric winch holding even half of it's rated load against the brakes.


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## wkpoor (Sep 30, 2008)

> I know I've never had good luck with any electric winch holding even half of it's rated load against the brakes.


Now that aspect of my MM E12K has been perfect. Seems to hold loads tight.


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## 046 (Sep 30, 2008)

it's a Ramsey 8,000 hydraulic winch, driven by power steering pump. which means front bumper mount. no dual purpose using it to yank loads on to my trailer. 

seems most sliding bed tow trucks use hydraulic winches.. 



MR4WD said:


> It depends on the winch model. I think mine was braden or chelsea. Comparing something like those to even a 12,000 pound warn is like comparing a poulan to a big pro saw. I could hang my f-350 (dually) off of that deck winch even though it was only an 8000 pounder, but trying to get the same torque out of my m12000 is near impossible. Line speed had to be tripple under the same load and I had way more wire rope on the hydro winch.
> 
> Swamp Yankee: The reason I asked about hoists, is I'm sure years ago that I had an opportunity to get some 8274 LOOKING winches, but they were rated as hoists. They were around 3500 or 4000 pounds I think? Where as the similar looking winch was rated at 8000. I know I've never had good luck with any electric winch holding even half of it's rated load against the brakes.


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## Swamp Yankee (Sep 30, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> I want to mount it on the front and I'm open to whatever is the best way to power it.



Ideal set up for your application

A winch bumper holding a 8000 to 10000 lb worm drive with an extended output shaft that mounts a removable capstan head. A lot of utility and rescue vehicles use these set ups and they are slick. They're available in both electric and hydraulic. I always wanted to make on of them for my 89 F250 when I was doing logging and firewood big time. The capstan is great because it gives you a constant line pull without the loss of load created by adding a layer on the drum. They'll also pull forever as you never run out of wire rope capacity. Check Braden or Ramsey's website they both used to make them

As one of these is probably out of your price range I would get a 12 volt 10,000 to 12,000 lb worm drive. These are commercial quality gear boxes same as used on wrecker winches. Add a second battery and a decent isolator so you can charge both off the same alternator and you should be set to go. 

A couple of words of caution on the worm drives. First always be sure there is enough oil in the wormbox. Running a worm set dry will seize and damage it beyond repair. Worm sets also need to be run in. Do not try to pull heavy lads at first. Pull a 500 lb load the full length of the rope 4 or 5 times. This allows the worm to burnish itself into the wheel. 

Hope this helps
Take Care


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## wkpoor (Sep 30, 2008)

> Add a second battery and a decent isolator so you can charge both off the same alternator and you should be set to go.


I have 2 trailers each with its own battery and they charge off the truck with no isolator. Since the load is in parallel why the need for an isolator? It has yet to be an issue for me and I don't unplug the harness before I use the winch either. All I have is a 40Amp fuse in the charge line.


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## Swamp Yankee (Sep 30, 2008)

wkpoor

The isolator is not a requirement with the second battery, but it dedicates whatever is on the second battery circuit to that battery while allowing the alternator to charge both. In short the winch under heavy use may pull the second battery down but the primary battery is kept out of the circuit so the vehicle will still start and its electronics won't be affected by low voltage. Had issues with low voltage codes when OBD came along. The truck companies were working on it as it also caused problems with the vehicle stationary and the PTO running.
Pulling a load of 200 to 250 amps continuous on a 12 volt winch under load is quite common especially if the leads are undersized or start heating up and adding resistance to an already taxed system. Even with the bigger alternators they can't keep up.

Hope this makes some sense.

Take Care


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## wkpoor (Sep 30, 2008)

I think its because I keep a fully charged battery on the trailer that I have avoided problems. And I use on Optima. I can raise my dump fully loaded on just the trailer battery countless times.


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## Garfield (Sep 30, 2008)

*grapple truck*

I am thinking more on this winch for the grapple truck on the grapple. Maybe I would be better served with a winch on the truck frame under the pedestal for the grapple. If I do this could I loop the cable under the truck frame to pull from either side? could I put a pulley up on the boom to accomplish the same thing as it being up there on the grapple? It is also right by the truck batteries so it would be easy to go electric or hydraulic. Thanks, your thoughts are appreciated.


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## clearance (Sep 30, 2008)

Garfield said:


> I am thinking more on this winch for the grapple truck on the grapple. Maybe I would be better served with a winch on the truck frame under the pedestal for the grapple. If I do this could I loop the cable under the truck frame to pull from either side? could I put a pulley up on the boom to accomplish the same thing as it being up there on the grapple? It is also right by the truck batteries so it would be easy to go electric or hydraulic. Thanks, your thoughts are appreciated.



I have seen winches on self loaders working. The winch is mounted just in front of the self loaders pedastal. I have pulled the line which has a choker on it (knob and bell), the operator goes ahead on the line, but the line is moved up and around by the grapple. That is the line goes up from the the winch drum, through the closed grapple and way off the side to where the log is.

So, when the log is yarded close to the truck, the guy opens the grapple and the line drops, I un hook the choker, and the grapple loads the log. Must be hard on the cable running it over the grapple instead of through a block, but I guess it makes sense or they wouldn't do it.

Go hydraulic, electric winches are just not up to it.


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## Garfield (Sep 30, 2008)

*Winch location*

Is it in front of the pedestal up on top mounted to the same plate the pedestal is or is it down on the truck frame?


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## clearance (Sep 30, 2008)

Garfield said:


> Is it in front of the pedestal up on top mounted to the same plate the pedestal is or is it down on the truck frame?



Its where you can see it, above the frame, but not by much. Its been like 4 years since I worked with one, I just cut down the trees and stuff. So I may not be expalining the setup as well as I could. Ask the guys here that have log trucks, I am sure they can help.


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## 046 (Oct 1, 2008)

Just did a craigslist score! 

Ramsey RPH 8000 hydraulic winch for $150
came off of a wrecked roll back... now gotta figure out how to hook it up...


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## Wet1 (Oct 2, 2008)

Sounds like a good deal for $150.


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## Swamp Yankee (Oct 2, 2008)

046

You're from Oklahoma, the winch capitol of the world. I think 1/2 the industrial quality winches made are manufactured in the Tulsa area.

Anyway that Ramsey is a single stage planetary with IIRC a 6.5:1 ratio. The planet carrier is part of the drum. The sun gear drives both the planetary and the brake. The gearbox is grease lubed but the brake on the end is an oil filled design for heat dispersion. Use the screw on the end to adjust the brake.

The RPH is a directional winch. Care must be taken when mounting it. The brake has a one way clutch so it freespools in the winch in direction but drags and is actually powered through in the cable out direction. This means even if powering the wire rope out at no load the is still the load of the brake or about 4000 lbs to be overcome. The motor also has a counterbalance valve mounted. This valve puts a back pressure on the motor and prevents it from overspeeding and cavitating from the load back driving in the cable out direction. These functions may be reversed if need be by moving the valve to the other port and changing the drive direction in the brake.
All this means is you must be sure the cable is winding on the drum in the correct direction. There should be a label with an arrow indicating drum rotation for winch in. Be sure to get this correct or you'll burn the brake and overheat the hydraulics.

The preferred mounting method is a rail mount using the sets of bolt holes in the castings along the center line of the drum. This transfers most of the line load in compression to the mounting system and reduces the moment distance between the load and the mounting bolts.

That's a good simple well made planetary winch. It was never a great puller but more than adequate for the sub 4000 lb line pull market foer which it was targeted. You're probably going to need about 8 to 10 gpm @ 2500 psi for it to work at it's best.

Hope this helps.

Good Luck and Take Care


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## wkpoor (Oct 2, 2008)

> That's a good simple well made planetary winch. It was never a great puller but more than adequate for the sub 4000 lb line pull market foer which it was targeted. You're probably going to need about 8 to 10 gpm @ 2500 psi for it to work at it's best.



Doesn't sound like enough winch for recovery applications that most roll backs get into at times.


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## ropensaddle (Oct 2, 2008)

I love my braden pto winch on my bucket, bad stout it is 40000 I believe!
It either comes or something breaks but does not stall like elect or hydraulic.
I can uproot a 22" tree with the cable 20' up the stem!


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## 046 (Oct 2, 2008)

so that's why there's so many winches available locally.... 

there's constantly huge winches available on tulsa craigslist. 
I always though it was due to all the oil field equipment around here...

thanks for all the info on the Ramsey 8,000 lb hydraulic winch



Swamp Yankee said:


> 046
> 
> You're from Oklahoma, the winch capitol of the world. I think 1/2 the industrial quality winches made are manufactured in the Tulsa area.


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## clearance (Oct 2, 2008)

Gonna stick a new cable on the old Ramsey 8k pto unit. Pto, what power.


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## Swamp Yankee (Oct 3, 2008)

046 said:


> so that's why there's so many winches available locally....
> 
> there's constantly huge winches available on tulsa craigslist.
> I always though it was due to all the oil field equipment around here...
> ...



You're right.
That's why the industry started in that area years ago to service the oil fields in Oklahoma and Texas.

Take Care


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## ropensaddle (Oct 3, 2008)

Swamp Yankee said:


> You're right.
> That's why the industry started in that area years ago to service the oil fields in Oklahoma and Texas.
> 
> Take Care



If you get off the pavement in those locations you will
need 4+4 and or a good winch gumbo is very bottomless.
I witnessed a feller park a d7g cat on frozen ground that
was gumbo next day warmed up and all you could see was 
the stack! He thought it was stolen and the boss was pissed 
took 2 other dozers and a crane to break suction! :Eye:


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## Garfield (Oct 5, 2008)

*ebay winch will this work for me?*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rams...m14QQhashZitem260295005993QQitemZ260295005993


Is this appropriate for dragging trees/brush to the grapple? Thanks


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## clearance (Oct 5, 2008)

Garfield said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rams...m14QQhashZitem260295005993QQitemZ260295005993
> 
> 
> Is this appropriate for dragging trees/brush to the grapple? Thanks



Looks ok, the cable is not fastened properly though, minor thing. I guess if you have a pto run hydraulic pump you are in business.


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## ropensaddle (Oct 5, 2008)

I have thought off putting my hope loader on my grapple for the skid
and load as it is faster than any winch. It is on my retired cable loader
works off a brake drum apparatus it is real fast and strong.


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## Garfield (Oct 6, 2008)

*winch speed*

Yeah, I have seen to many slow winches I need some speed more like a winch on a chipper than a warn 9000 lb winch.


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## ropensaddle (Oct 6, 2008)

The hope loader is fast if you were beside the log and I pulled the
cord attached to the master cylinder you would have to run to keep up.
That is fast and unless it is 40 inch dbh it is coming out of its location
at that speed. I really wish my old hope loader was still going the truck
its on was the problem 75 model needs a lot of work. I have too much
in it already but the cable loader is in good shape, I may get it going
someday or mount it to a better vehicle.


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## Swamp Yankee (Oct 6, 2008)

Garfield said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rams...m14QQhashZitem260295005993QQitemZ260295005993
> 
> 
> Is this appropriate for dragging trees/brush to the grapple? Thanks



That's an old Ramsey worm drive. 

The motor is a standard SAE 2 bolt so replacement is not an issue. I would be more concerned with the condition of the worm, wheel, and driveline bearings. Everything else could be easy to repair. 
As to the worm and wheel if they are damaged, primary cause usually being run dry becase the worm box seals went south and there was no oil, you'll have a 120 lb paper weight. Worm sets can be changed out but you'll need to be familar with shimming them into proper position in order to do so.
As to speed, that will depend entirely on your hydraulics. Worm drives are not fast , my estimate is bare drum the wire rope speed on that winch is in the 15 to 20 ft/min. 
Be sure the freespool is operating properly. Not just releasing the drum to allow cable to be pulled out, but more important that is re-engaging fully. Failure to re-engage creates a very dangerous situation as only a very small portion of the drive may be carrying the load. 
As it came off a rool back it's most likely an 8000 lb unit as that's what is on rollbacks. 
Hope this helps,
Take Care


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## Slick (Oct 6, 2008)

It's because the top posts on an optima go down into the battery and can get more current..the side posts are just parrellel'd off the top posts with a metal strap...you can see it buldge out of the molded plastic case of the battery, so the sides have less current capacity...

P.S. Do yourself a favor and don't let that optima deep cycle to the point of needing to be jumped etc..keep it above 12v....I don't care what they call them or advertise about them they do not like to be deep cycled...I build custom cars and have a wall of dead optimas that client's have come in with that I've replced, last one was a hot rod three weeks ago who never even used the thing..just dropped in last year as he was finishing up the truck, now he needs it and it's dead...they have a big name and advertise well but there are much better batteries out there. I'm a big fan of Hawker Odessey batteries,they take a beating and come back for more. 




TJ-Bill said:


> Swamp..
> 
> I have a 9000lbs T-max and I'm running a Yellow Top Optima Battery. I was told that the top post on the battery are for winching and the side post are for your regular hook up.. Any idea why?
> 
> ...


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## wkpoor (Oct 6, 2008)

I've been wanting to try the Odessey. I have a 10yr plus 6V Optima that is still going strong and I'm sure has had countless run downs. It has been the most amazing battery I've ever seen.


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## Slick (Oct 6, 2008)

10 yrs on an optima is awesome! Maybe they went the way of many a company...build great stuff in the beginning, get big and fall apart...I'm not sure, I just know I've had 5+ years of frustration with optima batteries  As a custom car guy they always seem to die at the worst possible time :censored:


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## Garfield (Oct 6, 2008)

*Ebay winch*

I am unable to inspect it and it sounds like it is to slow for my application so I'll let this one go.. Thanks again


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## wkpoor (Oct 6, 2008)

> 10 yrs on an optima is awesome! Maybe they went the way of many a company...build great stuff in the beginning, get big and fall apart...I'm not sure, I just know I've had 5+ years of frustration with optima batteries As a custom car guy they always seem to die at the worst possible time


I have a 12V that serves double duty between my dump trailer and my equipment trailer. On the dump I can dump a full load at least a dozen times , maybe more since its never run dead yet, between charges when using it behind the tractor. It has amazed me for sure. However I've had that one for about 6yrs so it rather old too.


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## 046 (Oct 6, 2008)

here's the latest craigslist score...Ramsey QM 8000 w/cradle, new never used.. with all the acessories.. 

four Optima blue top batteries, like new condition was purchased two weeks ago off craigslist. two went directly into my Cummins turbo diesel. Optima Blue tops are designed for low discharge and starting. Amazing cells... recharges in about an hour. have been warned not to let cells discharge too low.

two 8,000lb rated Ramsey winches side by side.... electric vs hydraulic... 
there's no comparison in built quality... hydraulic winch looks like it would pull twice the load of electric winch.


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## TJ-Bill (Oct 7, 2008)

I have a quick question about "bypassing" the solenoids. I got my Jeep stuck on Sunday, no big deal it was in a hole I've been in before, I hit the in dash switch I have from my winch, released the cable and then attached the cabler around a tree. Now when I went to bring in the cable nothing, I hooked up my remote nothing, just a slight click coming from inside my solenoid case.. I jumped the winch using booster cable and was able to get the cable to come in but it's got no power and will only tighten the cable. Is it because the booster cables can' carry enough current? not a good enough connection using the cables? I'm heading back out tonight to see if I can' take my solenoid pack apart and find a problem. Jeeps been out in since Sunday and I'd kinda like to get it home..

Thanks

Bill


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## TJ-Bill (Oct 7, 2008)

Think I found the problem.. One of the wires from the backside of the remote was pulled out, Going to fix it now and see if that was it..


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## Garfield (Oct 12, 2008)

*What do I need?*

I am looking for a fast winch. Not like ropensaddles where you need to run to keep up but something much faster than I have seen out of these 8000 lb winches. Can I take an 8000 # hydraulic winch and put on a different hydraulic motor with a smaller displacement and more rpms. I would rather have a fast 2000 # winch because I can't tear up peoples yards. This is the one I have in mind.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RPH-...m14QQhashZitem270286337118QQitemZ270286337118


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## ropensaddle (Oct 12, 2008)

Garfield said:


> I am looking for a fast winch. Not like ropensaddles where you need to run to keep up but something much faster than I have seen out of these 8000 lb winches. Can I take an 8000 # hydraulic winch and put on a different hydraulic motor with a smaller displacement and more rpms. I would rather have a fast 2000 # winch because I can't tear up peoples yards. This is the one I have in mind.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RPH-...m14QQhashZitem270286337118QQitemZ270286337118


 the thing about that is it can be fast but you let the brake
slip slow as well. I went by where I have it parked the other day next
time I will get some pics it is ugly but mean :hmm3grin2orange:

Simply spool size will change speed but the bigger the spool
the meaner she has to be!


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## Swamp Yankee (Oct 12, 2008)

Garfield said:


> I am looking for a fast winch. Not like ropensaddles where you need to run to keep up but something much faster than I have seen out of these 8000 lb winches. Can I take an 8000 # hydraulic winch and put on a different hydraulic motor with a smaller displacement and more rpms. I would rather have a fast 2000 # winch because I can't tear up peoples yards. This is the one I have in mind.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RPH-...m14QQhashZitem270286337118QQitemZ270286337118



Smaller displacement will get you more line speed, 

but you'll loose pull especially in the top layers. Be sure to think about that before you go too small on the motor. Remember that winch motor also has to overcome and drive through the brake in the winch out direction. Yes, you can adjust that brake down to accommodate the smaller motor, it's just when you get to your top layer the brake may only hold 300 to 400 lbs. The load control valve on the motor will probably give you better load holding than the mechanical brake.
That Ramsey at full flow spec'd out around 45 ft/min. bare drum higher as the layers increase. If you get one of those RPH's I'd run it stock and adjust the motor displacement after. If you really want to get the best of both worlds look around for a 2 speed motor.

Take Care


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## Garfield (Oct 12, 2008)

*Will the winch take it?*

Swampyankee, If I put on a faster motor will the internal parts of the winch be able to handle the extra speed? Is this particular winch a good one to think about for what I am wanting as far as a universal motor mount etc.? I have a Ramer grapple setup made in Ramer Alabama. How do I know if I have power beyond capabilities?


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## Swamp Yankee (Oct 12, 2008)

Garfield said:


> Swampyankee, If I put on a faster motor will the internal parts of the winch be able to handle the extra speed? Is this particular winch a good one to think about for what I am wanting as far as a universal motor mount etc.? I have a Ramer grapple setup made in Ramer Alabama. How do I know if I have power beyond capabilities?



Motor on that winch is a standard SAE "A" 2-bolt flange. I don't remember whether that winch uses the splined or 1 inch keyed shaft. Either is readily available from multiple manufacturers. (I recommend Parker-Ross or Char-Lynn but that's up to you)
Should be no issue speeding that winch up as it's a single stage planetary. Only problem I can fore see is balance of the carrier if you spin it too fast. (Kinda like running an out of balance tire and wheel)
The make of the grapple is not important, I need to know who made the valve stack. I'm guessing it's Gressen but could be one of dozens. The power beyond is usually a 1/2 or 3/4 inch port in the end cap of the stack valves. From there you tie a motor spool valve using hoses. If it's for a winch make sure it has decent metering capability so you can regulate speed. 
If you can track down any names or part numbers on the existing valves I'll try and research what is available.

Take Care


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## Garfield (Oct 12, 2008)

*Tomorrow I hope*

hopefully I'll get it tomorrow. On both ends of the valve body there's approximately a 3/4 inch plug (2 of them actually) On one end a 1/4 inch line comes out and goes up top. I didn't see any brand or numbers on the valve It is fairly clean but I may have to pressure wash it. Thanks


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## Garfield (Oct 14, 2008)

*called the manufacturer*

They said that it is a gresen valve body. It has power beyond on the end of the valve body there's a 1 3/8 inch plug (wrench size). He said he could also send me another section for the existing valve body and handle to go with it so it would look original. I don't know which is best. He also has not priced me the stuff. He said he would send me the stuff to do it either way. I would like to know a ballpark of what it should cost so I know if it's worth our effort to find the parts etc. They were extremely nice and helpful at Ramer Manufacturing.


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## Swamp Yankee (Oct 14, 2008)

Garfield said:


> They said that it is a gresen valve body. It has power beyond on the end of the valve body there's a 1 3/8 inch plug (wrench size). He said he could also send me another section for the existing valve body and handle to go with it so it would look original. I don't know which is best. He also has not priced me the stuff. He said he would send me the stuff to do it either way. I would like to know a ballpark of what it should cost so I know if it's worth our effort to find the parts etc. They were extremely nice and helpful at Ramer Manufacturing.



Location, location, location.

You need to decide from where you want to operate the winch. If the location of the grapple valves do not provide a clear view of the winch you may want to go remote and use the power beyond.
Adding a stack is probably a cleaner install, but function must come before beauty. If you do add a section be sure they give you the appropriate Gressen bolt and seal kit to put the sections together, don't use threaded rod as it will fatigue under constant loading.

Good Luck, hope I've been of some help.

Stay tuned, Chapter 2 Winch Types and Features is coming next rainy Saturday or Sunday.

Take Care


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