# Steel toe or not



## jblimbwalker (Apr 29, 2003)

I was wondering if any of you guys wear steel/safety toe boots at work? I've been wearing steel toe for years and never been bothered by the complaints I've heard others speak of and I must say that I've never worked with anyone who wears safety toe boots. Yesterday was the first day in my career that I wore non-safety toe and wouldn't ya know I dropped a chunk of white oak on my toes. No damage done, but I was sure missing my steel toe loggers.


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## Greg (Apr 29, 2003)

I wear them (steel) and would not go back. I feel more confident when working around heavy logs with them. Working on a hill and a log starts to roll, I'll block it with my boot(within reason). Also when loading a heavy dolly or moving wood around in my wood pile I feel better having them on. Saved my tosies a few times, but I have never really taken a hard hit to the feet. 
If I were only climbing I would probably not want them, but I climb and do tons of grunt work too. 
Greg


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## TREETX (Apr 29, 2003)

Steel toes here!!

I was wearing them through Heathrow (London) and of course the thing beeps. I go to the guy with the wand and say "I have steel toes." He exclaimed, "Steel toes!!??, This man has steel toes!! Your poor mum!!" 

Having said that, steel toe boots here.


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## Tim Gardner (Apr 29, 2003)

I wear steel toe boots and shoes. I agree with Greg about using your toes to stop the log from rolling and I will prop small pieces up to cut thru without hitting dirt. My 16" climbing boots went into the closet the first time I tried that with them. 

Even my climbing shoes, yes shoes, have them along with a steel shank.  After noticing a cut on the toe of my boots after climbing I decided steel toes are part of my PPE. They do suck in the winter time though.


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## Reed (Apr 29, 2003)

There's pros and cons.

A friend had a log drop on his foot - massive log. It crushed the steel cup downwards and pinched his toes. Not knowing at the time they were smashed and broke, the ER tried to take his boot off to no avail. They had a porta-power brought in and it took a long time and huge effort to get the boot tip off, along with some valuable tissue. 

Just be aware and perceptive AT ALL TIMES, don't let safety gear allow you to rest your guard.


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## Tim Gardner (Apr 29, 2003)

It seems to me that something heavy enough to crush the steel cups would have done more damage to his foot if he would not have had them. I had a loader bucket set down on my foot and was able to just ask the operator to pick it up. Without the steel toes I would have been out of work for a while. Steel toes were no excuse for me not paying attention to my foot placement but at the time I was thankful to have them. Nobody is perfect and accidents do happen. 

Some people argue that seatbelts can cause death in a car wreck. I have had a seatbelt save me. Granted I did have ribs broken from the impact but that is nothing compared to what would have happened to me if I went into the steering wheel and windshield.


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## jblimbwalker (Apr 29, 2003)

We put a steel toe to the test at work awhile back. Used it as an outrigger pad on the bucket truck. (No I wasn't wearing the boot ) Applied enough pressure to lift the truck up and held it there for a few seconds. No damage done to toe. I also do alot of climbing and steel toes never seem to hinder me in any way.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 29, 2003)

I've never had a real work boot that was a real good climbing boot. 

I'm currently in a medium end mountain hicking boot by REI.

Most of my work is aerial so I don't really worry about big logs on my toe. These boots were designed for walking on uneven surfaces and needing more grip on small contact areas.

then there is the conductive issue, for some of us a dielectric counter and toe would be a better option.


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## NeTree (Apr 30, 2003)

Steel. ALWAYS.


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## Rob Murphy (May 1, 2003)

*something I posted before*

I droped a log on my little toe and broke it. Yep I had steel caps on but I sadly discovered that my little twinkie toe didnt fit under the cap . OUCH!!!!


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## Froggy (May 1, 2003)

*Reply*

I wear steel toes all the time. I feel better with them. I'd have to say that if I was working on line clearance I probably would wear a linesmen boot for the risk of attracting electrical shock.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 1, 2003)

I wore work boot and combat boots for years, but then I got hooked on high performance footwear. Never going back.


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## Jumper (May 1, 2003)

In Canada workers do not have the choice to use non safety footwear in worksites where there are hazards to the feet. Safety boots and shoes are equiped with both steel toes and steel plates, and meet a standard similar to the ANSI ones. They sport identifying marks, a green triangle and an Omega cloth patch on the right boot of each pair. If you are injured on the job, and it is found out you were not wearing the prescribed PPE(personal protective equipment), including boots, watch out when the time comes to get any money out of Workman's Compensation.

There are a whole pile of excuses out there why people won't wear then including style (not so, they come in a huge number of styles, many not looking like work boots at all); the steel toe pinches (if it does you have the wrong size boot- fact most men wear boots too small, or should try on a number of types and sizes-one will fit); they are too cold in winter (a number of manufacturers offer toes made of ballistic plastic-thermatoe comes to mind); or they are a hazard around hydro wires (not true, boots here have to meet an 18000 volt insulating standard, and in any event of you ground out a hydro wire enough to put you under, it won't matter what was on your feet). Check out all the hydro guys around here-they wear steel toes. 


Yes there is a lot of resistance out there to wearing them, I speak from personal experience while in the Forces. What it takes is a mandatory company safety policy which spells out what each worker will wear, and yes this includes bosses making site visits. Many companies here provide an annual boot allowance as additional incentive. But there will always be those that choose stupidity over common sence. 

I can't imagine not wearing them in any industrial setting let alone in this industry. In fact the saw I use on a daily basis prescribes the use of eye, head, ear, leg and finally foot PPE.


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## Froggy (May 1, 2003)

*Reply*

After reading Jumper's reply, I have to say I agree that steel toe boots should be a requirement in this industry. If you think about the situations you get put in as a climber and a groundman. The steel toe or safety toe could save you more than hurt you. Good point Jumper. Thanks, Billy


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 1, 2003)

SpiritII gortex for $190.







I know guys in LaSportiva, Vasque...

Joey Cornell in Central City, Co, does a lot of big removals and wears $350 LaSportiva ice boots for his gafff work. 

Tom D. gets used Vasque from a repair outfit in the Twin cities. 

Sean Gere likes the lowcut lace-to-the-toe rock/hiking shoe....

If your in the tree, it is what is comfortable for you and helps you perform better. 

I also get an orthopedic arch support, my feet last hours longer with the "orthotic". Custom made, not the ones you see in infomercials.


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## Froggy (May 1, 2003)

*Reply*

Jp-> that looks like a comfortable boot. Do you not think a 8-10in logger would help you more in the tree. Especially when using gaffs? The boot you showed looks great for situations with out gaffs, but to me it's hard to carry two pairs of boots with you and have time to change when you need. The work we do could be a Large removal my personal favoriate and by the next or the same job you could be pruning a tree that involves no gaffs. Just a thought. thanks,BB


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## Froggy (May 1, 2003)

*Reply*

Well the reason I asked is that my boss has done it for 30+ years and still uses the logger. It seems to work well. From my experiance your legs get use to them. I'll have to check into those boots. Sorry didn't mean to step on any toes. Thanks,BB


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## TimberMcPherson (May 2, 2003)

Its saftey law here in New Zealand to wear saftey boots, and either chaps or chainsaw pants. I have never nicked my pants with a saw but have exposed the steel cap of my boots with a chainsaw. The cap gave me the opportunity to relise how big of a mistake I had made without having hospital think time, dropped a few things on my toe to, caps are gooooooodddddd


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## TREETX (May 2, 2003)

I always use steel toes and seem to hurt my toes when I don't use them. It is more because I am used to kicking things with the steel toes when they are not there, I still kick things 

I noticed the Euro guys seemed to use boots like JPS posted. Much of their gear is different because in America arboricultural climbing seems to have evolved from lumberjack methods and techniques. In Europe, climbing seems to have evolved from Alpine mountain climbing. The gear reflects this. So does the lack of a machismo attitude.


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## mikecross23 (May 2, 2003)

I need some new kicks b/c my hiking boots are falling apart. I think every job site I visit keeps a piece of my boots. Thought about loggers w/ steel shank and toe, tried some on and decided to buy more hiking boots. I find them just as comfy as my tennis shoes, except when standing on gaffs for more than 2 hours or so. I would like to find a hiking boot w/ a steel shank for less than $100.00. Anyone? 

-Mike-


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## Tom Dunlap (May 2, 2003)

I've been buying my boots from Nokomis Shoe Shop In Minneapolis for about 37 years. My first wear a pair of kangaroo skin 8" hunting boots. About two months ago I bought a pair of Vasque. They were marked $120 but I got them for $110. Maybe because I wore them home instead of in a box 

http://65.108.1.131/index.html

Tom


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## lhampton (May 2, 2003)

I see a lot of guys mention that they don't or wouldn't use steel toes near utility lines. I'm not that familiar with the line clearance end of the business, is this really an issue?

I would have thought that if you are in tight enough to worry about the steel caps on your toes, that there are other, more valuable parts of your anatomy to try and keep from making crispy. 

Louie Hampton


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 2, 2003)

I've tried logger boots, then blew out some ligaments in my ankle. I cannot se how women walk in heels!

Logger boots are made for climbing in gaffs, mountain boots ar made for climbing....

If your boss has been in logger for 30 years, then that means he has tried nothing else. I like to experiment once in a while. I had been wearing Danners for years, but when i started footlocking they did not hold up. These seem to be holding theor own.

Oh, they are comfortable, and comfort is good. Gaffs fit tin them ok, I don't wear gaffs all that much so I'm not a good judge there.


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## Bradley (May 3, 2003)

Jps, I second the motion on the La Sportiva's. I've gotten into the habit of wearing my Makalu's for all gaff work over the Wesco's. The shank is so much better, I can stand in the irons all day with absolutely no foot pain. Any boot designed to work w/crampons will work great with gaffs.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 4, 2003)

That sounds like the modle that joey wears, and the same reasoning. 

Loggerboots have not realy changed over the yeasr all that much, the climbing sports provenders engineer things for people who are willing to spend money on something that works.

Comfort is a good thing, I hurt enough as it is, so i'll spend a bit more money on a better boot.


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## Froggy (May 4, 2003)

*Reply*

JP->maybe it's all a mater of personal preferance. One might prefere loggers over climbing boots. Or vice versa. I say what ever works. I agree with you that one shouldn't be afraid to try new and better products offered out there. One other thing loggers have gotten lighter and more designed towards tree climbing. So you can sit in your gaffs all day or prune all day. You have to be willin to spend money on a good product. Like they say you get what you pay for.
BB


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## jokers (May 5, 2003)

Line clearance guys in this area are required to wear EH(electric hazard) rated footwear which normally have composite safety toes and shanks. Right now I`m wearing a pair of Bates 2230s. Nylon and leather upper, composite toe and shank, and a soft Vibram sole. They are relatively lightweight and they are comfortable, including the wide toe. They even have a zipper down the side. They look like SWAT team boots. BTW, the EH standard is set locally by the utility that owns the lines as far as I know. I also know that there is an OSHA standard for safety toe footwear for loggers and I believe groundies as well. 

Louie, you`re right about making other parts of your body crispy before worrying about damage to your feet but what typically happens when a person becomes part of a high voltage circuit is that a substantial exit wound occurs at the part of the body which is best grounded. So it doesn`t really have anything to do with contacting high voltage with your feet, in fact there are working clearances that must be maintained based on voltage, the higher the voltage the larger the distance. I guess what they are trying to achieve is minimization of ground potential through the feet. From videos and pics I`ve seen it`s pretty common to have toes blown off and wounds in the bottom of feet that look as if they were made by a 12 guage.

Russ


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