# Uncomfortable on spikes!



## ClimbMIT (Dec 8, 2011)

I haven't used spikes much since I just started climbing again. I have never felt real secure on them especially on huge pines we have here in Southern Louisiana. Well what is huge to me may not be to another :biggrin Anyway these pines I hate because you can be 80' feet or more up and no limbs for your lanyard grab hold. I would like to get better in this area because I will miss out on many removals if I don't. Anybody struggle with this? Any suggestions of videos? Any input would be appreciated! 
Thanks, ClimbMIT


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## lone wolf (Dec 8, 2011)

ClimbMIT said:


> I haven't used spikes much since I just started climbing again. I have never felt real secure on them especially on huge pines we have here in Southern Louisiana. Well what is huge to me may not be to another :biggrin Anyway these pines I hate because you can be 80' feet or more up and no limbs for your lanyard grab hold. I would like to get better in this area because I will miss out on many removals if I don't. Anybody struggle with this? Any suggestions of videos? Any input would be appreciated!
> Thanks, ClimbMIT



What exactly is the problem in the spikes?


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 8, 2011)

Don't feel like I can trust them. I think Maybe my body is too close to the trunk? bad angle? I feel safer closer to it but I know it's probably not the best angle. Ok let me have it


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 8, 2011)

I meant closer to the trunk.


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## superjunior (Dec 8, 2011)

Well you definitely have to trust your gear. Can't be very productive if your bear hugging the tree. 
Any problems with the spikes themselves? Pads sliding around - shanks digging into your legs?


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## Iustinian (Dec 8, 2011)

all depends on the spikes you have, some take a lot of time to break in and be comfortable. You might need to get better boots on too, Wesco highliners idk. I have Redwings loggers boots and just about any spikes are comfy in them -- and I hope you're not spiking trims, only removals?

the biggest problem most ppl have with spikes being uncomfortable is the shanks turning in on them. Trade those Kleins in for Geckos! lol

If you really spend A LOT of time on them on a big removal, you might try the ART rope guide, or just rig your climbing line up to cinch down on the spar, that way you can hang on your rope and take the pressure off your achin shins. A good way to accomplish that, is to tie a dbl fisherman's onto a carabiner, leaving a long tail on the termination; clip your rope thru the biner and you can lean on that all you want, slide down a ways, flip off with your "work positioning lanyard", reach up and grab the tail to create slack to slide that system down to your next point so you can cruise down to your next cut. I can post a pic of this if you ask -- its safe, and it does work. You'll find that you wont be spiking your way down, you'll be grabbing ahold of your knot and sliding down, a nice relief from standing on those spikes, especially if you aren't used to them ---- I never have liked them, but so much faster on removals. Works really nice if you get a grigri btw


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## Greener (Dec 9, 2011)

ClimbMIT said:


> Don't feel like I can trust them. I think Maybe my body is too close to the trunk? bad angle? I feel safer closer to it but I know it's probably not the best angle. Ok let me have it



Ok ClimbMIT. I am not sure about your level of experience and I am making no assumptions here, just going off your post. It sounds like you need to just get some more time on the spikes. At first (and I still do after several years), you will feel like you want to have your body close to the trunk to grab it, and to have limbs for leverage-especially as you get higher. But Lone Wolf it right. Trust your gear. Leaning in to far can cause your spikes to kick out of the tree. They grab best when your torso is a moderate distance from the tree, but not too far. Pines are probably easier than hardwood because they are softer and the spikes will hold better. You can watch many videos and talk to experts, but bottom line, get as many climbs in as you can and go the pace you feel good with. And, Golden Rule: make sure you have a second line tied on when the saw is running. 
Colby


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 9, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> all depends on the spikes you have, some take a lot of time to break in and be comfortable. You might need to get better boots on too, Wesco highliners idk. I have Redwings loggers boots and just about any spikes are comfy in them -- and I hope you're not spiking trims, only removals?
> 
> the biggest problem most ppl have with spikes being uncomfortable is the shanks turning in on them. Trade those Kleins in for Geckos! lol
> 
> If you really spend A LOT of time on them on a big removal, you might try the ART rope guide, or just rig your climbing line up to cinch down on the spar, that way you can hang on your rope and take the pressure off your achin shins. A good way to accomplish that, is to tie a dbl fisherman's onto a carabiner, leaving a long tail on the termination; clip your rope thru the biner and you can lean on that all you want, slide down a ways, flip off with your "work positioning lanyard", reach up and grab the tail to create slack to slide that system down to your next point so you can cruise down to your next cut. I can post a pic of this if you ask -- its safe, and it does work. You'll find that you wont be spiking your way down, you'll be grabbing ahold of your knot and sliding down, a nice relief from standing on those spikes, especially if you aren't used to them ---- I never have liked them, but so much faster on removals. Works really nice if you get a grigri btw



Thanks for the feedback, Can you post a pic? I think I know what you mean. Like on the front of Wesspur catalogue?


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 9, 2011)

Greener said:


> Ok ClimbMIT. I am not sure about your level of experience and I am making no assumptions here, just going off your post. It sounds like you need to just get some more time on the spikes. At first (and I still do after several years), you will feel like you want to have your body close to the trunk to grab it, and to have limbs for leverage-especially as you get higher. But Lone Wolf it right. Trust your gear. Leaning in to far can cause your spikes to kick out of the tree. They grab best when your torso is a moderate distance from the tree, but not too far. Pines are probably easier than hardwood because they are softer and the spikes will hold better. You can watch many videos and talk to experts, but bottom line, get as many climbs in as you can and go the pace you feel good with. And, Golden Rule: make sure you have a second line tied on when the saw is running.
> Colby



Thanks Greener, I think I need to play around with them low on the tree to get real comfortable. I just recently got pole gaffs Buckingham with the velcro wrap and metal inserts. These are much more comfortable than the cheapo leather pads. I am working for myself and have not been climbing much because of landscaping jobs. I am starting my tree sevice again for the second time after about a ten year lay off. I am very comfortable climbing with my rope. I also just got the rope wrench and playing with SRT for large trees to be trimmed and off course the Big Shot as well.
Oh yeh, I have NEVER spiked a tree for pruning. I know it's only for removals.
That golden rule is a definite after almost cutting through my steel core flip in 1999. ####in was scary!


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 9, 2011)

superjunior said:


> Well you definitely have to trust your gear. Can't be very productive if your bear hugging the tree.
> Any problems with the spikes themselves? Pads sliding around - shanks digging into your legs?



Maybe I could use a pair of tree spikes. Would there be less chance of kickin out? 
I do lack trust in my gear so that is something I must work on. and losing like 20 to 30pounds! Lol


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## thepheniox (Dec 9, 2011)

Not something I do but if your worried about sliding down the trunk. Throw a line in and have someone belay you. Actually I lied on very large trunks I'll do this so I don't have to flip my lanyard up as I go. That way if you slip your not going down the trunk.


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## Job Corps Tree (Dec 9, 2011)

*Uncomfortable on Spikes*

Tree gaffs will help, somthing to go through the Trees bark and into the wood, it is just me but I never liked pole gaffes to short always wanted 2,3/4 or 3 inch. This is something we all have had, may not admit to it but it is almost always takes time on spikes to get good. Given time when they gaff out you just jam them back in and press on. I had climbed for two years before I went on spikes, dam hard to cross over. stuck holes into everthing, boots, legs, rope, fingers. it was not good but in time you can feel like you could live in them, but as said you have to find gaffes that feel as part of your legs. I use Klines something about the way they are bent for me they work buckingham not so much


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## Iustinian (Dec 9, 2011)

*heres a couple pics*












Its very simple to tie, just a termination knot leaving a long tail, then basically use it as a choker. If you get tired of sitting on your spikes, you can hang on it, plus if you've limbed out the tree, or just coming down a spar, instead of spiking down you can just descend, dig your spikes in, flip off w/ your lanyard and tug on the tail to slack it so that you can pull it down to you and repeat. This works really good as a second tie in while you're chunking down big wood or the spar. I think it would work well in your situation if you're not yet used to your spikes, gives you a break from standing on them when theres no branches to hang your climb line on. 

Something else that might help you, is pointing your spikes at the tree which sounds obvious of course, but I mean like toward the center of the trunk (perpindicular), not pointing at the ground. The more towards the ground they are pointing, the more you're likely to slip. I've slipped many times and the spikes always catch, but it can be a bit unnerving doing a drop and sliding down till they catch. It might help to remember to spread your knees a little, that will point the spike into the wood and less toward the ground. 

Hope this helps.


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 9, 2011)

thepheniox said:


> Not something I do but if your worried about sliding down the trunk. Throw a line in and have someone belay you. Actually I lied on very large trunks I'll do this so I don't have to flip my lanyard up as I go. That way if you slip your not going down the trunk.



That's a great idea. I have actually done that once but I had wraps on the tree instead a lowering device attached to my rope. Also my groundie was not really a groundie he was the homeowner so that didn't help for comfort. I have a Big Shot and Port a Wrap I could use. Thanks for the advise!


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 9, 2011)

I will have to convince my wife I need different spikes! New toys for Dad :biggrin Maybe I could to a trade show and try some different pairs until find something I like. Thanks JCT!


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 9, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> Its very simple to tie, just a termination knot leaving a long tail, then basically use it as a choker. If you get tired of sitting on your spikes, you can hang on it, plus if you've limbed out the tree, or just coming down a spar, instead of spiking down you can just descend, dig your spikes in, flip off w/ your lanyard and tug on the tail to slack it so that you can pull it down to you and repeat. This works really good as a second tie in while you're chunking down big wood or the spar. I think it would work well in your situation if you're not yet used to your spikes, gives you a break from standing on them when theres no branches to hang your climb line on.
> 
> Something else that might help you, is pointing your spikes at the tree which sounds obvious of course, but I mean like toward the center of the trunk (perpindicular), not pointing at the ground. The more towards the ground they are pointing, the more you're likely to slip. I've slipped many times and the spikes always catch, but it can be a bit unnerving doing a drop and sliding down till they catch. It might help to remember to spread your knees a little, that will point the spike into the wood and less toward the ground.
> 
> Hope this helps.



Yes, that makes alot of since by pointing at the tree. I can make something simple very complicated at times. Glad to know they always catcth. When I watch the timber sports it just blows my mind how fast they go up and especially down. I am really glad I found this site you guys rock! I am definetly going to give all these suggestions a try. I have one more question though. Do think that choker would hold if the tree was perfectly with no branch collar? I would have to cut a small pie for an anchor?
Thanks alot for everyone's help! I bet this thread will be good for others having issues that haven't much formal training or none at all.


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 9, 2011)

ClimbMIT said:


> Yes, that makes alot of since by pointing at the tree. I can make something simple very complicated at times. Glad to know they always catcth. When I watch the timber sports it just blows my mind how fast they go up and especially down. I am really glad I found this site you guys rock! I am definetly going to give all these suggestions a try. I have one more question though. Do think that choker would hold if the tree was perfectly with no branch collar? I would have to cut a small pie for an anchor?
> Thanks alot for everyone's help! I bet this thread will be good for others having issues that haven't much formal training or none at all.



I meant perfectly round tree like a utility pole and the spikes pointing at the tree with the knees slightly bent. The little 12" diameter pines that are 60' and are about 8" in girth are the ones I really hate. Very easy to gaff an ankle. I will not do those unless I can hang from another tree swing to it and piece it out


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## Iustinian (Dec 9, 2011)

ClimbMIT said:


> Yes, that makes alot of since by pointing at the tree. I can make something simple very complicated at times. Glad to know they always catcth. When I watch the timber sports it just blows my mind how fast they go up and especially down. I am really glad I found this site you guys rock! I am definetly going to give all these suggestions a try. I have one more question though. Do think that choker would hold if the tree was perfectly with no branch collar? I would have to cut a small pie for an anchor?
> Thanks alot for everyone's help! I bet this thread will be good for others having issues that haven't much formal training or none at all.



yea (I've never cut a notch for it to catch in) it will hold just fine w/o a small notch to catch on, but do what you're comfortable with of course. Just keep in mind that until you get used to it, you need to keep it "loaded", keep pressure on it to keep it tight until you have safe-tied off with your flipline.


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 10, 2011)

Makes alot of sense Lustinian! thanks again


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## Greener (Dec 10, 2011)

ClimbMIT said:


> I will have to convince my wife I need different spikes! New toys for Dad :biggrin Maybe I could to a trade show and try some different pairs until find something I like. Thanks JCT!



If you're climbing thin bark hardwoods, you will be ok with pole gaffs for a bit, but I would stay away from mature conifers with the thick bark until you can get some tree spurs. Just a thought. Lots of good advice in here.


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## beastmaster (Dec 10, 2011)

Get some tree spikes for those pines. Pole gaffs on most trees are to short in my opinion. I don't even jab my spikes in when I climb
but just let them stick on there own. With a longer spike you get more leverage and that'll hold you. I also hardly ever sharpen them. If you have the right angle even if they come out they'll go right back in. You have to find that sweet spot by adjusting your lanyard.
To much its unconfortable, hurts your back and difficult to advance the flip line, and if your to close its easy to gaff out.
Make sure the ends of the gaff isn't a sharp point. holding the gaff upside down sharping them from the inside out with a curve.
There is no need to jam those suckers in while you climb. just step and have them turned in a little, and they'll hold.
Make sure you have them tight around your foot so they don't move around.
When I work on them I like to have one leg higher then the other to help stabilize me when I am making a cut. This is especially important on skinny trees.
Most of all get a comfortable pair. They shouldn't be torture devices, and climb with them, you'll get the hang of them in time. Pole gaffs are for poles, get the longer tree spikes, that'll be a start. Good luck


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## Tree Pig (Dec 10, 2011)

Lot of good advice here already, the only thing I would ad is to reinforce the point that the only thing that is going to make your more comfortable is more time in the spikes. Keep going and you will get to a point were you dont think about it. Also if you dont already you could set a climb line in the tree before going up. It may slow your entry to the tree a little but you may feel a little better. But as many have already mentioned you have to learn to trust your gear.


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## randyg (Dec 10, 2011)

ClimbMIT said:


> I meant perfectly round tree like a utility pole and the spikes pointing at the tree with the knees slightly bent. The little 12" diameter pines that are 60' and are about 8" in girth are the ones I really hate. Very easy to gaff an ankle. I will not do those unless I can hang from another tree swing to it and piece it out



IF, the only reason you are NOT liking those small diameter tall pines is fear of slipping down the stem, I can help. Rather than passing your steelcore flipline around the stem once, go around again, (make that second wrap under the first and will be easier when you go to unclip) and you can climb with confidence knowing it WILL choke and grab should you gaff out. I like to have flip adjusted loose enough that I can hold the wraps together with one hand forming a ring 4 or 5 inches in diameter larger than the tree and use my other hand on the back of the tree. I can watch spike placement as I step up while sliding that ring right on up at waste level. If I want to rest, I will take both hands to work the loop up around neck or head high where it will now choke on the stem, and then I can hang against the tree for a sec. to rest legs. When it comes time to work, shorten flip to choke at waist level. 

While running saw in these type trees, I will ALSO have climbing line attached to tree. It lives just above my feet on a two ring friction saver (wrap and a half around the tree also). Climbing line is handy when chunking down 10 or 12 foot sections. Easier to descend on line than spiking down. Also takes weight off legs. MAIN REASON climbing line should be attached when running saw is in case of emergency. I make a lot of face cuts and back cuts at a height on my body that I don't even want to think about how much damage might be sustained should something go wrong (throw a chain, kick back etc.). You could bleed out and die in the tree while trying to rig a Tie In Point for the climbing line to descend on (possibly with limited or no use of one or more limbs). Better to just zip to the ground, slap a couple squares of paper towel on the injury, secured with a wrap or two of duck tape, and get back to work.

Climb safe.
randy


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 11, 2011)

Thanks again guys. I managed to pick up some tree spikes at a local pawn shop. They are Buckingham and are pretty heavy though. I am going cut a pine down in my yard and I will try many of the suggestions stated here. I will take it low and slow and have a rope set for back up with no tension so I can feel what's going on.


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## thepheniox (Dec 11, 2011)

Here's a few photos of an adjustable friction saver set up on the ground before spiking up a tree. It's my maple in the front yard so I was just using it for the photos no spiking. As long as this set up has weight in it, it won't fall down the trunk or even a pole. So if you are on a straight trunk you can decend then sit in your lanyard give this system some slack and it will come down to you. Reset it make your cut, repeat. Also if you had an accident you are ready to get out of the tree. To ascend the tree loosen your friction hitch on the climbing line and hold both your lanyard and this system and climb. If you slip out this will catch you unlike your lanyard. The trick is to keep the eyes the proper distance apart so as the trunk taper gets smaller you have to adjust it. Something I would suggest is to try it in controlled situations and see how it reacts to falls. Hopefully I explained it clearly.


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## Kottonwood (Dec 11, 2011)

ClimbMIT said:


> I haven't used spikes much since I just started climbing again. I have never felt real secure on them especially on *HUGE* pines we have here in Southern Louisiana. Well what is huge to me may not be to another :biggrin Anyway these pines I hate because you can be 80' feet or more up and no limbs for your lanyard grab hold. I would like to get better in this area because I will miss out on many removals if I don't. Anybody struggle with this? Any suggestions of videos? Any input would be appreciated!
> Thanks, ClimbMIT



Are these trees huge or just tall? If they are tall or skinny I like to double wrap my lanyard. To make this easier flush cut every branch. Also sometimes it's better to use pole spikes on the skinny ones. I personally always use tree spikes but I can see why some people switch.


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 11, 2011)

thepheniox said:


> Here's a few photos of an adjustable friction saver set up on the ground before spiking up a tree. It's my maple in the front yard so I was just using it for the photos no spiking. As long as this set up has weight in it, it won't fall down the trunk or even a pole. So if you are on a straight trunk you can decend then sit in your lanyard give this system some slack and it will come down to you. Reset it make your cut, repeat. Also if you had an accident you are ready to get out of the tree. To ascend the tree loosen your friction hitch on the climbing line and hold both your lanyard and this system and climb. If you slip out this will catch you unlike your lanyard. The trick is to keep the eyes the proper distance apart so as the trunk taper gets smaller you have to adjust it. Something I would suggest is to try it in controlled situations and see how it reacts to falls. Hopefully I explained it clearly.



That is sweet! That must be homemade. I am going to make one myself. Thanks!


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 11, 2011)

You need to maintain a 30 degree angle between your lower leg and the tree to keep the spikes dug in as they should be. Also, make sure the spikes are sharp, dull ones won't grab well consistently and give you an uncomfortable feeling. 

To climb well you need to be able to put your body in different positions, sometimes leaning into the tree, sometimes out. Keep that leg angle in mind and you'll be fine, granted the spikes are sharp.


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## Fireaxman (Dec 26, 2011)

Lot of debate on spikes. I like my Tree gaffs, but they do stick pretty deep in the Loblollies if i have to stand in one spot for a while. Then sometimes I have to work at it a little to get them pulled. Never tried pole gaffs, but it might be nice to have a pair.

Someone posted some nice little exercises on here about a year ago I think to help people get familiar with their gaffs. Something about up a little, down a little, around the trunk, start your saw, .... exercising at low level to feel more comfortable on the job.

CimbMIT, ya wanna drive across the lake? I've got a pine I will be taking down this winter we can spur around in if you want. Got most of the SRT and DdRT stuff too you can take a look at. PM me if you are interested. Madisonville.

Comfortable boots and pads made the big difference for me. That and just enough cut-outs to realize they are very rarely fatal (are they ever fatal?), confidence that the spur really will grab something just a few inches further down the tree. The guys that have died falling off of spurs around here have died for flipline errors, not cutouts. Flipped over the top of the spar, did not have the snap properly connected to the saddle, or let the lanyard wear too thin. Most a cut-out ever cost me was a skinned up nose.


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## ClimbMIT (Feb 19, 2012)

Well finally got some tree spikes and played around with them today. I climbed about a 60' pine in my front yard. I didn't gaff out once! I also made an adjustable lanyard with a piece of bluestreak, tenex eye to eye prussic, and micro pulley which worked really well. I am going to take some pics of my set up and post it soon. Tomorrow I am going to try using the RW and pantin to ascend so I can't cut a few more limbs. Thanks to all for your responses!


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## Fireaxman (Feb 20, 2012)

Did you get to that job in Abita Springs yet? I finished 6 of the Water Oaks in Madisonville, but I still have one to go. Got distracted with some other projects. If you go after those pines in Abita let me know. I'll bring over some SRT stuff and let you play.


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## ClimbMIT (Feb 21, 2012)

That would be great! I don't know if I will get that job because the owner is having some financial difficulties. I have your number and I still would like climb with you. I just have to plan my plan and work it. I tend to deviate allot since I am working for myself.Lol! Freedom? uh, kinda. Anyway, If I know I will be up your way I will call you. If you are coming out here in Slidell give me a ring. I will call you back this time  Up in one of my pines today with the RW worked pretty good until I got about 3' off the ground and my vt locked up on me and I began to curse while others laughed. LMAO now! Arborplex has way too much elongation for SRT/RW.


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## Fireaxman (Feb 21, 2012)

You on Arborplex? Oh Man, that stuff will work you to Exhaustion! 

How do I know? Old climber that taught me to climb loved it and swore by it, talked me into buying several hundred feet of it. Needed to remember this old guy climbed on Hemp, for him Arborplex was a big improvement.

Modern ropes (Ivy, Blaze, Tachyon, etc.) are about as big an improvement over Arborplex as Arborplex was over Hemp!

Now, I only use the Arborplex for rigging.


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## ClimbMIT (Feb 22, 2012)

I hate it. I am going to buy Poison Hivy with my next check


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## arborjockey (Feb 22, 2012)

I owned spurs before I owned a saddle. I used to throw them on and climb the fir trees (140's) behind my house. Maybe that's it....... loose the saddle fore a couple of weeks. Your comfort level in the spikes will rocket.:jester: bury a small pecker pole (40') with no limbs in the back yard and run up and down that thing 100 times a day.


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## ClimbMIT (Feb 22, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> I owned spurs before I owned a saddle. I used to throw them on and climb the fir trees (140's) behind my house. Maybe that's it....... loose the saddle fore a couple of weeks. Your comfort level in the spikes will rocket.:jester: bury a small pecker pole (40') with no limbs in the back yard and run up and down that thing 100 times a day.



A small pecker pole eh! That is an interesting word. :big grin! Anyway I will take the climbing part in consideration


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## ClimbMIT (Feb 22, 2012)

Fireaxman said:


> You on Arborplex? Oh Man, that stuff will work you to Exhaustion!
> 
> How do I know? Old climber that taught me to climb loved it and swore by it, talked me into buying several hundred feet of it. Needed to remember this old guy climbed on Hemp, for him Arborplex was a big improvement.
> 
> ...



Ordered Poison Hivy today. Can't wait once I have made up my mind. I got 120' hank. I really wanted to get 200' but I can still just put a choker up in the TIP of most trees and ascend if I need to. Also connect another line if I want to anchor at the base,


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## Iustinian (Feb 22, 2012)

200' is a waste of money unless your in a lot of 100' trees. Otherwise, unless you're using a Rope Guide, you're just pulling all that extra standing part of your rope over branches everytime you cross over. I have 6 climb lines, all different lengths, and the shortest one that will get the job done will make for the fastest climb. rope guide helps for that tho


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## ClimbMIT (Feb 22, 2012)

Iustinian said:


> 200' is a waste of money unless your in a lot of 100' trees. Otherwise, unless you're using a Rope Guide, you're just pulling all that extra standing part of your rope over branches everytime you cross over. I have 6 climb lines, all different lengths, and the shortest one that will get the job done will make for the fastest climb. rope guide helps for that tho



Makes sense about the extra tail. One question though, what is a rope guide?


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## Fireaxman (Feb 23, 2012)

Iustinian said:


> 200' is a waste of money unless your in a lot of 100' trees. Otherwise, unless you're using a Rope Guide, you're just pulling all that extra standing part of your rope over branches everytime you cross over. I have 6 climb lines, all different lengths, and the shortest one that will get the job done will make for the fastest climb. rope guide helps for that tho



We ARE in a lot of 100 foot trees. Typical climbs for dead wooding mature Loblollie and Slash Pine are at least 80 feet, and 110 feet is not unusual. One tree I maintain is 125 feet. I never buy anything less than 200 feet. I also climb a lot DdRT on the height adjustable false crotch tied at the base of the tree and leave 100 feet of rope at the base so that a non-climber can lower me all the way to the ground if necessary without having to pass a knot, which means I often have 400 feet of rope dedicated to the job. 

Couple more reasons why I buy the long ropes - I use the tail with a Blakes to advance my tie in point. The Blakes glazes the tail, so occasionaly I have to "Slip" a few feet off the end to remove the glazed end. My rope also occasionally brushes the chain on the 200T where it hangs on my saw lanyard, picking a few starnds and making it necessary for me to slip even more rope off my 200 foot hank. I fully agree "... the shortest one that will get the job done will make for the fastest climb" but I BUY 200 foot and end up with plenty of shorter lengths to choose from as needed for lower work and "Spider" lines.

I dont often pull the extra standing part over branches. I secure with my lanyard, Spider, or Tail and pass my split tail and tie-in point around branches as necessary.

View attachment 225656


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## ROPECLIMBER (Feb 23, 2012)

Fireaxman, nice picture, I did a finger scale as my pinky was same size as you and counted 15 fingers so that crooked pine is about90+ feet, what do you use to set the rope, the big shot?, do you have a wraptor? here in SA I can usually set my rope in a live oak with a step ladder and 4 jameson sticks,but up in Colorado I had to learn to throw the cradel toss,was looking at the home built air cannon on this sight, but have never used the big shot, sorry for off topic.
Back to topic,spikes on the bean poles, I usually rapp the lanyard a full loop then I use a friction saver as a false crotch once I am blocking down the spar, this way I can burn down in a pinch, and like Fireax said the standing end stays in the rope bag,usually,
I cant believe how long I climbed with the old style where my tail is my rope and had to pull my whole rope back through the tree every time, the split tail sure makes it easier, my next rope is going to be 150 ft with a tight splice at both ends, much easier to retrieve the false crotch, from either end.
A few 100 ft cotton woods I was to the end of my rope and still 3 ft of the ground when I got back down and that was after re directing half way down, would have been SOL if got in a pickle up there,
Paul

PS on the hight adustable false crotch do you use a carabiner and a pully on a spliced eye as the false crotch like the micro bull line illistration in the palm in the Sherril Catilouge


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## Fireaxman (Feb 23, 2012)

Ropeclimber, I think you got it real close on the bean pole. My Ivy was originally 200 feet but I had slipped about 15 feet off for glaze and picked strands. Had few feet still on the ground so I think my TIP was at about 80 feet. Canopy topped out about 10 feet above my TIP. Came off my Ivy on a piece of Blue Streak I use for a "Spider" line to get one dead branch from above my first TIP.

Looked for a picture of the 125 footer but have not found it. It actually is a little more open grown, better diameter, probably why it survived Katrina.

Addicted to the Big Shot. Have to use a 16 oz shot bag to pull the throwline back down across the rough bark and tight crotches of the Loblollies, but still manage to get shots to 80 or 90 feet.

I use the carabiner and pulley for the false crotch but still have not given myself the luxury of the spliced eyes. I use a Bowline with Yosimite, especially because I have to slip a little off the ends of my ropes occasionally and I dont splice and because I frequently raise my TIP on the false crotch. Because I often climb alone and do not have a Groundie I trust with my life support knots I tie my false crotch bowline with about 20 feet of extra tail. Then, to raise the false crotch 10 or 15 feet, I only have to secure myself on the spider line, come off the false crotch, raise it a few branches, and re-tie it.

Now that you have seen a pict of our "Bean Poles" you may have a better understanding of why ClimbMIT is "Uncomfortable on Spikes". Buddy, those things are moving pretty good on a breezy day, and taking off a top gives you a thrilling ride. I've been thrown off my spikes several times, but the double wrap with the flip line and the SRT "Emergency Bailout" line have saved me from injury.

I have a video of some work at 75 or 80 feet on a windy day if I can figure out how to upload it, but I'll get flamed on Safety. No hard hat. Yeah, I know better. But it sure feels great with the wind in your hair. PM me with your e-mail and I'll give you access to it on Dropbox. Shows the movement in about a 25 mph gust. Gotta Love It!! Its why we do this!


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## ROPECLIMBER (Feb 24, 2012)

Fireax, Thanks for the info, I have spike climbed a few bean pole pines "leaners" back in 05 in Sisbee and Lumberton,TX for removals, it was a ride when we would hang the top or jump cut the top, took a little getting used to but I gew up as a kid in east Texas, so have always loved the piney woods, here is a scan of a photo of a 80 -90 foot that I jumped the top out over the sweet gum so we could fall the spar, had a preety good lean glad it held after the jump,
View attachment 225795
View attachment 225796
, 
Sorry no PPE back then, up in Aspen had to remove a lot of bean pole aspens with sooty bark thoughs are so soft and I have a bad habit of standing off set left leg higher and bracing my self with my left shin, on a cut,and on the aspens my left gaff would pluck out or slide ripout, PIA,going back in april so I need to get a big shot or get better at setting a rope cradle throw, most of the big cotton woods have a good second or third first TIP at about 50-60 feet and I got to where I could hit them in about 3-5 tries, they have one or 2 big shots but was never on the crew i was with so have never tryed one, me and the lead climber Brandon kept talking about a co2 gun with a regulator for hight, like a pistol paint ball style, Yea the Cotton woods up there are rough on lines and ropes a lot of plucking or bow stumbing to get it down the right way,then to get the rope back up you usually have to remove bag and use several clove hitches and half hithes staight to the tail, I havent ordered my new line yet either want to get one with a spliced eye this time, was looking at yale,I saw on recent post on here,
Paul


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## tree md (Feb 24, 2012)

Fireaxman said:


> We ARE in a lot of 100 foot trees. Typical climbs for dead wooding mature Loblollie and Slash Pine are at least 80 feet, and 110 feet is not unusual. One tree I maintain is 125 feet. I never buy anything less than 200 feet. I also climb a lot DdRT on the height adjustable false crotch tied at the base of the tree and leave 100 feet of rope at the base so that a non-climber can lower me all the way to the ground if necessary without having to pass a knot, which means I often have 400 feet of rope dedicated to the job.
> 
> Couple more reasons why I buy the long ropes - I use the tail with a Blakes to advance my tie in point. The Blakes glazes the tail, so occasionaly I have to "Slip" a few feet off the end to remove the glazed end. My rope also occasionally brushes the chain on the 200T where it hangs on my saw lanyard, picking a few starnds and making it necessary for me to slip even more rope off my 200 foot hank. I fully agree "... the shortest one that will get the job done will make for the fastest climb" but I BUY 200 foot and end up with plenty of shorter lengths to choose from as needed for lower work and "Spider" lines.
> 
> ...



Right on.

Climbers use different climbing styles and techniques in different geographical regions. If it were not for the fact that I get a lot of calls for larger trees here in OK I could get by with a 120' rope. I buy 150' because I will sometimes have to climb over 75' here.

I started doing tree work and learning in the Southeast where there are a lot of Pines over 100' tall. Hell, there are a lot of trees period over 100' tall. I worked on a Tulip Poplar onetime that was close to 150'. You will never see a professional outfit using a ladder to enter a tree in that part of the country because a lot of trees are 70'- 80' to the first branch. It is a waste of space on the truck and a waste of time to carry a ladder. Here just about every tree truck I see carries a ladder because the trees are so much shorter. It is just so much quicker to use a ladder here sometimes. Hell, a lot of the "services" here carry nothing but a ladder and a power pruner with them. I have seen a lot of guys in this part of the country enter a tree on a ladder and work off a short rope to advance themselves in a tree. It is a pretty common technique here. Totally different in the South. Nobody climbs like that because again, you often have 70'- 80' until you reach your first available TIP. I use 150' of PI Hi-vy here and used it in the South over the Summer doing storm work. If I worked regularly in the South on the many 100+ foot pines I would not be without a 200' climb line or a 200' bull line.


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## ROPECLIMBER (Feb 25, 2012)

I was looking at some videos and ran across this, 
CElanyard - YouTube
how hard would it be to make this, guess it would have double fishermans instead of spliced eyes unless I had it spliced, it is $189 at treestuff, looks pretty uasable and this thread and the CElanyard made me think of making a an adustable buck strap with snap and pully on left, then the double line around the tree with a prusik and termination karabiner, back at hip on the right, this way you have that old school adjustable buck strap feel (two ropes against the spar) but still have adustment at right hip, I like the way the old adustable buck straps grab the tree just limited on size and many times the friction knot is behind the tree as tree tapers, any thoughts,
Paul


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## Fireaxman (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks for finding and sharing this, Ropeclimber. I'm ordering one today. This will make a Great "Spider" line, will save me some wear on the tail of my Ivy, as well as an excellent positioning lanyard, rescue strap, and double-crotch for Traverse.

Yes, could pretty easily make one up from the individual parts and pieces, but I think I'll buy the first one. Need to reward the people who thought this up, I think, with a purchase. Also, their splices will make a lot cleaner system than my Scaffold Knots.

Edited: Tried to order one from Sherilltree but they only had a 16 foot listed on their web site. I want at least a 33 foot. I see that Treestuff has a 33 foot, but Sherrilltree delivery times have been so quick for me I'ld like to see if they can provide it before I try Treestuff.


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## arborjockey (Mar 4, 2012)

thepheniox said:


> Here's a few photos of an adjustable friction saver set up on the ground before spiking up a tree. It's my maple in the front yard so I was just using it for the photos no spiking. As long as this set up has weight in it, it won't fall down the trunk or even a pole. So if you are on a straight trunk you can decend then sit in your lanyard give this system some slack and it will come down to you. Reset it make your cut, repeat. Also if you had an accident you are ready to get out of the tree. To ascend the tree loosen your friction hitch on the climbing line and hold both your lanyard and this system and climb. If you slip out this will catch you unlike your lanyard. The trick is to keep the eyes the proper distance apart so as the trunk taper gets smaller you have to adjust it. Something I would suggest is to try it in controlled situations and see how it reacts to falls. Hopefully I explained it clearly.



You don't run the rings that far apart do you? And why would you put a rope up in a tree your going to spike up? Seems like a waste of time. 

For the guys on here messing around making homemade friction saver with micropullys and under rated ropes:msp_sneaky: be careful. Calculate your weight and pay attention.


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## Fireaxman (Mar 4, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> ... why would you put a rope up in a tree your going to spike up? Seems like a waste of time.



1. For a backup safety line if you are "Uncomfortable on spikes" and 
2. For a bailout line in case you run into a wasp nest or have an emergency (chain saw cut, heat stroke, heart attack, etc.). Much faster to rappel down a rope than spike down without a rope.

I dont set the rope before I climb, although it would provide a "warm fuzzy" for someone new on spikes. I carry it up with me and set it when I start working.


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## Kottonwood (Mar 4, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> You don't run the rings that far apart do you? And why would you put a rope up in a tree your going to spike up? Seems like a waste of time.
> 
> For the guys on here messing around making homemade friction saver with micropullys and under rated ropes:msp_sneaky: be careful. Calculate your weight and pay attention.



I always spike up to set my line, it is faster and easier for me. One of my guys is a hole in one every time with the throw line though and he sets both his rigging and climbing line from the ground. It ends up being about the same speed as me but he is way less fatigued. One of the things with removals is that you have to go all the way to the top to set your lines but you start your work on the bottom, the first time he reaches the top of the tree he is cutting it out... not a bad way to go.

Also, I have used homemade friction savers out of tubular webbing since I started using friction savers. I inspect them everytime before use and it has worked out well for me.


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## arborjockey (Mar 5, 2012)

Fireaxman said:


> 1. For a backup safety line if you are "Uncomfortable on spikes" and
> 2. For a bailout line in case you run into a wasp nest or have an emergency (chain saw cut, heat stroke, heart attack, etc.). Much faster to rappel down a rope than spike down without a rope.
> 
> I dont set the rope before I climb, although it would provide a "warm fuzzy" for someone new on spikes. I carry it up with me and set it when I start working.



Opps miss read. I always have an exit rope to bail on as well. I thought you set the rope 1st thing then used it with spikes on for your initial climb. Which isn't a bad thing on a 100'+ trees. Then the boys can heave you up. I can usually wreck some branches on the way up(getting the GM working right off the bat). Then set lines. I dig the throw line but when you have the "throw ball blues" it sucks and is time consuming. Im old school and spur straight up. This gives me the airial view of the angles and dangles that are below......most times:msp_biggrin:



heres my darn bee pic. zipped out of the tree, yelled at my girlfriend, and ran 100' to my truck where the little punk stung me.:mad2:

View attachment 227547


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## Fireaxman (Mar 5, 2012)

Yeah. My girlfreind stings me, too, when I yell at her. She just uses her fist though, dont hurt much. Looks like yours used a baseball bat. Glad she didn't take out any teeth. Gotta run faster.


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## ClimbMIT (May 30, 2012)

Getting better each time I spike now. Tomorrow I am spiking about a 60' gum in a tight spot. The trunk is about 30" and Maybe 8' from carport and 5' from fence. Good thing there is another pine tree about 20' away in the neighbors yard to lower most of it down. I may make a video for critique. Thanks AS! rock


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## ROPECLIMBER (Jun 5, 2012)

*Sweet Gums and bee's*

I have found so many honey bees in Sweetgums,that I will hit them with a hammer and listen for the nest buzz, had one in Livingston Tx after hurricane Rita, holding up 3 other trees in a big storm blown mess and didnt find the bees till I had widdled all the damage trees down and was down to just the sparrs and didnt hear them for the saw and got stung as I burned down and ran to the truck,they chased my groundman down the street was funny till his face swelled up,he had about 20 or so stings all over, we came back the next day and droped the spar and ran a rope around a tree in a vacant lot and I bucked with two ciggeretts lit and puffing, then tyed the nest log to the truck and around a tree in the lot to move the nest, it was hollow to the base glad I was tyed in to a big undamaged water oak when I found the bees would have really got me if I had to spike down,
Paul


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## arborjockey (Jun 5, 2012)

Bleach and amonia make a sinister gas. Killed me up some bees one time wit it. Set the funnel in the entrance early in the morning. Pour in 1 then the other, then cover the hole with putty. Or a shop vac and some duct tape. I filled a 2 gallon shop vac with honey bees back in ohio. 
Didn't know we were running out of the little guys:msp_scared:


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## parbreezy (Jun 5, 2012)

i just bought a pair of gecko cfs and since then ive been much more comfortable


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## ClimbMIT (Jun 6, 2012)

ROPECLIMBER said:


> I have found so many honey bees in Sweetgums,that I will hit them with a hammer and listen for the nest buzz, had one in Livingston Tx after hurricane Rita, holding up 3 other trees in a big storm blown mess and didnt find the bees till I had widdled all the damage trees down and was down to just the sparrs and didnt hear them for the saw and got stung as I burned down and ran to the truck,they chased my groundman down the street was funny till his face swelled up,he had about 20 or so stings all over, we came back the next day and droped the spar and ran a rope around a tree in a vacant lot and I bucked with two ciggeretts lit and puffing, then tyed the nest log to the truck and around a tree in the lot to move the nest, it was hollow to the base glad I was tyed in to a big undamaged water oak when I found the bees would have really got me if I had to spike down,
> Paul



I will definetely watch out for them from now on. I am dropping another tomorrow if weather permits. Last December I was trimming a sweet gum that had allot of deadwood. While cutting out a hollow branch 2 baby flying squirrels and the mom came running out. Got a few nice pics with my cell. I was within five feet face to face. I will try to post.


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## ClimbMIT (Jun 6, 2012)

Here we go:


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## ClimbMIT (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks to everyone here on Arborsite for helping me this year!
Happy New Year everybody!


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