# Merit vs Touchstone vs ImidiPRO



## Nickrosis (Sep 12, 2006)

Has anyone used the generics since Bayer's imidacloprid patent expired? Thoughts on quality or effectiveness?


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## Themadd1 (Sep 12, 2006)

I am interested in this topic, as I am getting ready to do soil drenching on trees this fall for the first time. I was going to use Merit but maybe I should wait and see what new products are going to be available in the next month or two.


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## tprosser (Sep 20, 2006)

*Xytect Imidicloprid*

Hey Nick,
Rainbow has been working on our own imidicloprid called Xytect for about 1 year. I don't know about the others - but I do know that Xytect looks, acts and performs as well as Merit in the EAB trials done this past summer. We are now confident enough in it to use in our services and to sell to our customers.

There are more uses for this active then many people realize. We are compiling the research and creating easier to use protocols then exist now.

I just wanted to let you know

Tom


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## Nickrosis (Sep 20, 2006)

Yeah, but Xytect isn't available yet... I'll definitely give it a shot.

Well, not having heard from anyone, I bought a mini-drum of Quali-Pro's imidacloprid for far less than the other generics and will be using that.


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## dorshak (Sep 24, 2006)

*touchtone*

We're using touchstone this year. I'll check with our specialist in the phc department if we used it last year, but I don't think we did.


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## greentree (Sep 27, 2006)

I was very tempted to buy a generic and Helena Chemical told me to call Bayer, so I did. The Bayer salesman met with me and will match the generic price.

I will use the Touchstone product and it is actually made by Bayer. It became clear during our meeting that they understand our business. I know my local Bayer rep and he said that they will support Touchstone if I have any issues.

The price match and local contact from Bayer will keep me with them as I know who is making the product.


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## Nickrosis (Sep 28, 2006)

Well Bayer certainly didn't seem that knowledgeable when I talked to them two weeks ago. In fact, the Bayer rep didn't really know anything about Merit. The people at Bayer that know a lot about Merit are in their customer service department (particularly the research people), but they have never heard of Touchstone or other generics. So...you're lucky.

If they matched the generic price, that would be great, but I have a minidrum from Qualipro now.


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## greentree (Sep 28, 2006)

My rep has made this generic information known from the start! I can understand some may not know about every generic being made because other companies are not going to announce they have a generic until it comes out. I get about 2-3 new ads per week sent to me about new generics mainly replacing merit and other Tree products we use such as Talstar and Avid. Some of the generics seem to be priced better untill you do the math especially the liquid versions. Generics scare me because I have friends who have used generics and had problems. They could not get a Rep to call them back and ended up having to retreat some big jobs at their cost! We have never had a problem getting our Bayer rep to call us and address issues. Keep in mind as well that A generic company only gets rights to the ai and that is only part of the product. The carriers can have a huge impact on the performance. If you want to discuss further
Email me direct at work since I check that every hour. Also Are you Sure you talked to a field rep? Our Bayer rep said he had a full program to deal with generic pricing and they would match it. I heard this from my supplier as well so I don't think it is a big secret. 
[email protected] WWW.GrowinGreen.com


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## greentree (Sep 28, 2006)

You asked if anyone had experience with generics and I have, so calm down!
I do not work for Bayer though I did work for Syngenta after college. I do however maintain Strong ties to my reps from Bayer, Syngenta and Dow.
Fyi, large tree care is fairly new to us since we are primarily a lawn and ornamental company. I came here to learn from more experienced people like yourself but this was the first subject that I thought my imput could be helpful to someone else! As a small businessman I have to evaluate cost on every treatment going out the door, We do use generics in alot of situations in the turf side and I do feel they have a place in our arsenal of products.
However, When syngenta rolled out their liquid formulation of barricade 3 years ago we had a major problem as did several friends in the state using the same product. I had the syngenta rep out, he sent technical people and they not only covered the cost to fix the issue, but they took responsibility. Fortunately, I haven't had any large issues with Bayer but, they did cover the cost to respray some fields with revolver when technically it was the weather not the product causing the issue. I have had a problem with trimec 992 not killing clover and they responded as well! As far as generics go I have seen some major differences in formulations such as daconil and Banner. The first time we tried generic banner it left a oily film in our tank! I have a close friend who used the qualipro prodiamine product and had major breakdown this year. He has yet to hear from someone who can deal with it properly! My point with generics is as with new formulations from the big boys is they need years of testing before I am willing to use them for a treatment that makes up a substantial part of my revenue and as in the case of Barricade 4l it was the carrier not the ai that caused the problems! I just don't understand why you would use a generic if the Basic would match the price and stand behind the product.
I have seen test results that show difference in results between barricade and the generics, While not a huge difference this was in university trials which in my experience will raise significantly in the real world.


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