# Splitting Live Oak



## cjnspecial (Aug 21, 2008)

My buddy has 4 big live oak trees on the back of his property that blew over after hurricane katrina that need to be turned into firewood but a 20 ton splitter won't cut most of the pieces. What tonnage splitter does one need to split live oak easily?


----------



## Scootermsp (Aug 21, 2008)

*Northstar 30*

I have been splitting green oak, some over 20"dia. no problem with my 30 ton splitter. Forks have been no problem, this thing just tears them apart.


----------



## OilHead (Aug 22, 2008)

When you make the first couple splits on a large round place the wedge around half way rather than full bore. Once its cracked open good in a couple spots proceed w the full wedge.


----------



## aandabooks (Aug 22, 2008)

I split live oak with my 21 ton MTD and it has no problem with any live oak. Elm can be something else all together. If its been down a year, its not live oak anymore. Seasoned oak is a whole other problem to split.


----------



## woodguy105 (Aug 22, 2008)

My Timberwolf goes through some pretty big and beefy rounds. I split lots of Oak. If it's really big wood I'll run the wedge into it stop & wait a moment hear some cracking as the wood opens up then plow on through.

I like the splitters (like the timberwolf) with the stationary wedge as opposed to the wedge on the cylinder... easier to deal with the stuck pieces IMO.

Maybe clogged filter for hydraulic oil & low pressure??

_TWP-1
Weight/Dimensions 475 lbs / 42"(H) x 47"(W) x 96"(L) 
Splitting Tons 20 
Engine HP 5.5 
Pump (gpm) 11 
Hydraulic Tank Capacity (gal) 4.5 
Maximum Log Length 26" 
Cylinder Size 24" x 4" x 1¾" 
Cycle Time (sec) 13 
Frame 5" 
Hitch 2" 
4-Way Wedge OPT 
6-Way Wedge _


----------



## husky362 (Aug 22, 2008)

*a few thought's*

1 how big are the blocks cut,,,,,,are they knotted may have to cut smaller lenght block's
2 you may have to roll the block and cut the side's off on bigger block's before it split's the center
3 i have split alot of oak with a 6# splitting maul, except for knot's,i have used a friend's 12 ton on some fairly big stuff by slabing the edge's off
4 even dead oak a 20 ton should split everything but a few knots or crotches's it may take a few try's but you should be able to split most of it
5......unless the filter is clogged ,,,,,,,,,the bypass spring could be weak.....unloader set to low.......seals inside the cylinder could be letting oil pass by not holding pressure...........pump could be weak.......a pressure gauge would help diagnose any problems,,,,,,,,,,, any of these would cause a weak splitter






sometime's it's just trial and error till you learn the machine ,,what it will and wont split
dont forget the splitting maul is your friend .... it can make those big round's lighter and knock them off the splitter when they GET STUCK and they will


----------



## danrclem (Aug 22, 2008)

I've got a 22 ton Huskee and I haven't had any problem splitting any oak.


----------



## smoothED (Aug 22, 2008)

You guys up north are talking about oak,live oak is a compleatly differant animal


----------



## Hoosierheater (Aug 22, 2008)

smoothED said:


> You guys up north are talking about oak,live oak is a compleatly differant animal



Yep. Live oak, Quercus virginia, is an extremely heavy, tough oak which is indigenous to the deep south. It weighs in at 55#/cubic foot compared to white oak which weighs 42.5#/cubic foot. I realize that global warming is changing our ecology but I doubt it grows in Mass. or Illinois at this time.


----------



## avalancher (Aug 22, 2008)

Hoosierheater said:


> Yep. Live oak, Quercus virginia, is an extremely heavy, tough oak which is indigenous to the deep south. It weighs in at 55#/cubic foot compared to white oak which weighs 42.5#/cubic foot. I realize that global warming is changing our ecology but I doubt it grows in Mass. or Illinois at this time.



Gotta agree on this one, live oak is a pain and it seems the drier it is the worse it is to split. I havent run into a lot of it here in TN, but we had lots of it in Alabama and it can be some of nastiest wood to bust around. If it didnt burn so good I would pass on it if there was something better to be had.


----------



## cjnspecial (Aug 22, 2008)

Live oak has a grain like black gum, all twisted and knotty, but has the best btu rating of all the oak trees in north america and probably the highest of all trees in north america.


----------



## husky362 (Aug 22, 2008)

seem's i havent had the pleasure of "cussin" your live oak
sound's like bad stuff if it makes a 20 ton splitter grunt 
have freind's that have bigger splitter's 
you could rent a bigger splitter


----------



## husky455rancher (Aug 22, 2008)

i do it all the time with my 16 ton. rounds as big as i can lift. it does the job fine.


----------



## smoothED (Aug 22, 2008)

husky455rancher said:


> i do it all the time with my 16 ton. rounds as big as i can lift. it does the job fine.



You have live oak shipped to connecticut?


----------



## cjnspecial (Aug 22, 2008)

Here's a few pics of live oaks


----------



## abohac (Aug 22, 2008)

cjnspecial said:


> My buddy has 4 big live oak trees on the back of his property that blew over after hurricane katrina that need to be turned into firewood but a 20 ton splitter won't cut most of the pieces. What tonnage splitter does one need to split live oak easily?



Golly my buddy uses his 20 ton Tractor Supply job on just about everything without a problem. What kind of splitter are you using?


----------



## avalancher (Aug 22, 2008)

smoothED said:


> You have live oak shipped to connecticut?



Freight must be a killer!
Yep, dont think you have live oak there. Live oak is found only in the south. Live oak is a type of oak, not just an oak tree that is alive.


----------



## avalancher (Aug 22, 2008)

abohac said:


> Golly my buddy uses his 20 ton Tractor Supply job on just about everything without a problem. What kind of splitter are you using?



Unless you got a killer splitter, 30 or better, its going to grunt going through live oak. Like was mentioned before, its a very knarly and twisted oak. It doesnt pop on the splitter like red oak, but more like tears in half. When you hit a knot, it really puts your splitter to work.


----------



## husky362 (Aug 22, 2008)

*that's a big tree*

if the other tree's are that big you got your hands full


----------



## avalancher (Aug 22, 2008)

For the OP, I would take your saw and cut the rounds in half, you should do just fine with the splitter that you got. You can also try taking small bites off of the outside edges to weaken the round. It may take awhile, but it will be worth it.


----------



## jags (Aug 22, 2008)

cjnspecial said:


> Live oak....... and probably the highest of all trees in north america.



I believe that Osage Orange holds this title.


----------



## pacman (Aug 22, 2008)

I think I have a 20 ton splitter and it goes thru any thing you can put on it or under it including Boadock Onsage Orange. I use all kinds of wood oak, orange, maple ,sycamore, hickory, and I think the toughest is elm. It even splits elm with out any problem.


----------



## cjnspecial (Aug 22, 2008)

jags said:


> I believe that Osage Orange holds this title.



Hmm...Depending on what website you go to:
Live Oak: 34.4-37.8 million btu/cord
Osage Orange: 30.7-33.5 million btu/cord


----------



## abohac (Aug 22, 2008)

avalancher said:


> Unless you got a killer splitter, 30 or better, its going to grunt going through live oak. Like was mentioned before, its a very knarly and twisted oak. It doesnt pop on the splitter like red oak, but more like tears in half. When you hit a knot, it really puts your splitter to work.



Probably 75% of the wood I cut is oak and I may have some problems but it's splitable. I do have to admit those trees in the picture do have a few nast twists to them.


----------



## smoothED (Aug 22, 2008)

I give up.


----------



## husky455rancher (Aug 22, 2008)

opps lol my bad. im still new cut me a break lmao.


----------



## jags (Aug 25, 2008)

cjnspecial said:


> Hmm...Depending on what website you go to:



Man, you are correct. I sniffed around at different sites and they are all over the place for btu content, not only for osage and live oak, but for most of the hard woods.


----------



## TJ-Bill (Aug 25, 2008)

I just cut 3 cord of fairly green large oak by hand. 20 ton spliter should work. unless it some nasty different type of oak..


----------



## woodbooga (Aug 25, 2008)

cjnspecial said:


> Here's a few pics of live oaks



WOW. Now those are some oaks! The ones I see here in the northeast are like matchsticks by comparison!

I split by hand and find oak to be, on the whole, easier to split than most other species. Some absolutely just won't, but as a general rule.


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 25, 2008)

abohac said:


> Probably 75% of the wood I cut is oak and I may have some problems but it's splitable. I do have to admit those trees in the picture do have a few nast twists to them.





Please READ! Just because it's oak, doesn't mean it's *LIVE OAK*. This is a particular variety of oak that is very different from other oaks.


You _may _have live oak in Michigan, but if you find it splits easily, you are not splitting live oak! 

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=39


I'm suspect it was a live oak that stopped my 35 ton splitter and bent the toe plate on Saturday. A 20 or 22 ton splitter wouldn't have a chance with it.


----------



## Bowtie (Aug 25, 2008)

I saw live oak when I went to florida, its some gnarly stuff. Anything I cant get the splitter to knock apart I fire up the 044 or 064 and rip it in half. Easier to lift and gets me more trigger time on my big boy!!!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## smoothED (Aug 25, 2008)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Please READ! Just because it's oak, doesn't mean it's *LIVE OAK*. This is a particular variety of oak that is very different from other oaks.
> 
> 
> You _may _have live oak in Michigan, but if you find it splits easily, you are not splitting live oak!
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_live_oak
That's a link to black oak try this one


----------



## bore_pig (Aug 25, 2008)

Sure is nice when the thread is read before it's commented on.

Those are some crazy trees. I can't believe the way the bottom branches lay on the ground.


----------



## Ken05 (Aug 25, 2008)

Looks like my neighbors up North here are starting to get it. Geez, makes us look bad.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Aug 25, 2008)

cjnspecial. If your having that much trouble I'd just do what others have suggested and rip the logs into smaller pieces than run them through the splitter. 

From the sound of it Live Oak must be the hardest wood to split, because I've split some pretty nasty stuff with my little 22T Speeco.


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 25, 2008)

smoothED said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_live_oak
> That's a link to black oak try this one



Feh. I followed a link to Quercus virginiana! Should have looked at the page before I posted the link. :bang: 

Here's the right link:

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=78


Thanks for the catch, ED.






"I consider quoting Wiki to be the intellectual equivalent of "Oh YEAH? SEZ YOU!" in a serious discussion."


----------



## soiset (Apr 29, 2010)

I apologize for the thread resurrection, but I was hoping someone could make a suggestion. I've got a big stack of live oak rounds to split, and I've been killing myself with the maul, and having very little luck with a standard wedge. I'd get a splitter, but I won't allow that until I'm at least 75. 

Normally, I can bust fair-sized red oak rounds with one or two pops of the maul, but this live oak is tough as coffin nails. It takes 4 times the work to produce the same volume of firewood. Working with a wedge, I can't get the wedge to stay in the wood - it just springs into the air with every hit. If I could find a wedge with the right serrations to make it bite and stay, I'm sure I could get through the live oak.

The "grenade" type wedges, that come to a point and split in two directions don't appeal to me, because 1) the point would break off before long, and 2) I wouldn't want to try to split this wood more that one way at a time.

Anyone seen a standard shape wedge with some kind of gripping teeth or serrations?


----------



## ray benson (Apr 29, 2010)

cjnspecial said:


> Here's a few pics of live oaks






Those 2 pictures look like a tree we saw just north of Daytona Beach, Florida at the Bulow Plantation Ruins State Park.


----------



## Mike PA (Apr 29, 2010)

If you insist on using a wedge, cut a X into the end of the round to get the wedge started. X only needs to be a few inches deep. Easiest way to start a wedge in tough wood, i think.

Otherwise, split it with your saw and keep the noodles for fire starter.


----------



## Wolfcsm (Apr 29, 2010)

soiset said:


> I apologize for the thread resurrection, but I was hoping someone could make a suggestion. I've got a big stack of live oak rounds to split, and I've been killing myself with the maul, and having very little luck with a standard wedge. I'd get a splitter, but I won't allow that until I'm at least 75.
> 
> Normally, I can bust fair-sized red oak rounds with one or two pops of the maul, but this live oak is tough as coffin nails. It takes 4 times the work to produce the same volume of firewood. Working with a wedge, I can't get the wedge to stay in the wood - it just springs into the air with every hit. If I could find a wedge with the right serrations to make it bite and stay, I'm sure I could get through the live oak.
> 
> ...



With some of the Oak in Texas it might be easier to bite the bullet and use a splitter to break them up. Depending on the size of the round, there is still a lot of work in getting it split with a splitter.

Hal


----------



## KD57 (Apr 29, 2010)

Live oak is nearly impossible to split by hand, you can drive a maul out of sight and nothing happens. except you lose the maul. I have pretty good success w/ my 30 ton, but it groans, even on smaller pieces. 
Seasoned live oak contains tremendous energy. Even a small 8" round will stall the splitter, then pop with explosive force and send the halves flying with great speed. Don't ever stand in the way splitting live oak. I have seen 
8 inch rounds 1 foot long bust open and fly 50 feet. 
But to answer the OP's question, 30 tons in minimum for a splitter. And forget crotches, even w/ a 30T. And live oaks have a bunch of crotches. I just saw them into useable pieces.


----------



## soiset (Apr 29, 2010)

KD57 said:


> Live oak is nearly impossible to split by hand, you can drive a maul out of sight and nothing happens. except you lose the maul. I have pretty good success w/ my 30 ton, but it groans, even on smaller pieces.
> Seasoned live oak contains tremendous energy. Even a small 8" round will stall the splitter, then pop with explosive force and send the halves flying with great speed. Don't ever stand in the way splitting live oak. I have seen
> 8 inch rounds 1 foot long bust open and fly 50 feet.
> But to answer the OP's question, 30 tons in minimum for a splitter. And forget crotches, even w/ a 30T. And live oaks have a bunch of crotches. I just saw them into useable pieces.



I've got a little pile of split wood already, it's just tough going. As far as lost wedges, well, that's what the second wedge is for. But with the wedges, I can get them in an inch, and still when I hit them, they spring straight out, up about four feet.

Unlike other woods, there seems to be a threshold of force for any splitting progress. My wife can tap at a piece of red oak, and eventually the thing will split. I've got a buddy who doesn't have so much experience splitting, or as much strength, and he can whack at a round 50 times and just mark up the top. My swing with a maul is wicked-fast, so I can initiate the splitting with several hits, and then with a dozen more hits I can finish it. Then I have to sit down for a while. The split pile does NOT grow quickly.

The wood is so sinewy, like elm, the strands just bind up the rounds like steel. But if I could get the wedge to stay in, I could advance it forward and let it work. I'm considering trying to grind some roughness into the faces of the wedges.


----------



## Nosmo (Apr 29, 2010)

I've never had any Live Oak but if it is stringy like Elm I would not bother to get a grenade wedge. I got one of those before I got my splitter . I get a lot of Red Elm and thought this looks like just what I need for Elm.

That thing is a bugger to get out of a round when it is stuck. Never did split any Elm with it either - it would bounce out or get buried.

Try splitting that Oak near the edges and go around.

Nosmo


----------



## soiset (Apr 29, 2010)

It almost seems at though a better way to split it would be with a bandsaw of some kind, similar to the trailer mounted mills. The problem with splitting with a chain saw is that the kerf is so wide - a lot of energy is wasted creating sawdust. 

Back near my home town in Matthews, NC, there was an industrial splitting operation. They had this giant machine into which whole logs would go, then the split pieces would come shooting out of the top onto a mountain of firewood. I don't know what that machine was, or how one could possible sell enough firewood to pay for it. I don't know if it would tackle live oak or elm, either.


----------



## isaaccarlson (Apr 29, 2010)

I had a piece of oak go frazzle on me last week. I put it in the splitter and it wend POOF and was a rats nest!

View attachment 135129






View attachment 135130


----------



## Nosmo (Apr 29, 2010)

soiset said:


> It almost seems at though a better way to split it would be with a bandsaw of some kind, similar to the trailer mounted mills. The problem with splitting with a chain saw is that the kerf is so wide - a lot of energy is wasted creating sawdust.
> 
> Back near my home town in Matthews, NC, there was an industrial splitting operation. They had this giant machine into which whole logs would go, then the split pieces would come shooting out of the top onto a mountain of firewood. I don't know what that machine was, or how one could possible sell enough firewood to pay for it. I don't know if it would tackle live oak or elm, either.



That machine was more than likely a processor. It probably picked up a fair sized log, cut 18" off, then shoved it though an 8-way splitter - all done before a frog can lick its eyebrows.

I think if I were you I might just noodle those pieces. It may be more work than normal to process them this way but at least you will get them split. Other than buying, borrowing or renting a splitter this may be the most economical method.

Nosmo


----------



## cjnspecial (Apr 29, 2010)

I originally posted this before I got a iron and oak fast cycle log splitter. It has a pretty sharp edge on it and splits live oak really well. Whatever doesn't pop apart, the edge will shear through. I find it helps to let the wood dry about 6 months but not get completely dry. Trying to split it by hand is futile.


----------



## cjnspecial (Apr 29, 2010)

Here'a a link to a post I put up about splitting live oak with a few pics. The pic below shows how twisted the grain is and parts that were sheared through. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=132706


----------



## soiset (Apr 29, 2010)

Nosmo said:


> That machine was more than likely a processor. It probably picked up a fair sized log, cut 18" off, then shoved it though an 8-way splitter - all done before a frog can lick its eyebrows.
> 
> I think if I were you I might just noodle those pieces. It may be more work than normal to process them this way but at least you will get them split. Other than buying, borrowing or renting a splitter this may be the most economical method.
> 
> Nosmo



noodle = cut with chain saw(?)
I'd think investing in a ripping chain, which I've never used, would be a good idea for that.


----------



## Nosmo (Apr 30, 2010)

Noodle is a term which means ripping the log rather than crosscutting. You don't need a ripping chain just keep your normal chain sharp. 

One other thing about noodling - keep your chaincase cleared of the the noodles. They buildup like a snowstorm and will stop your oil supply to the bar and even clog up the chain.

If I noodle a log I lay it on its side and rip it into quarters.

Nosmo


----------



## Nosmo (Apr 30, 2010)

*Noodling A Log*




Here is a large pine which I noodled in March. I had to noodle these pieces in quarters just so I could pick them up.

Nosmo


----------



## Mike PA (Apr 30, 2010)

soiset said:


> noodle = cut with chain saw(?)
> I'd think investing in a ripping chain, which I've never used, would be a good idea for that.



Noodling is not the same as ripping. To noodle a log to split it , you are cutting with the grain by laying the down on its side and aligning the bar of the saw with the log. Ripping is cutting perpendicular to the grain and cutting into the end of a round by standing it on end and cutting downward. This takes a lot of time, but noodling is a lot faster. If you are noodling, you will get chips that are several inches long and look like curly fries. Ripping produces dust. You don't want a ripping chain for noodles, you normal chain will work.


----------



## soiset (Apr 30, 2010)

Ah, thanks for the info.


----------



## woodbooga (Apr 30, 2010)

Nosmo said:


> Here is a large pine which I noodled in March. I had to noodle these pieces in quarters just so I could pick them up.
> 
> Nosmo



That looks like the scene of a pac-man wartime atrocity.


----------



## trax (Apr 30, 2010)

woodbooga said:


> That looks like the scene of a pac-man wartime atrocity.



I don't care who you are That's Funny


----------



## TreePointer (Apr 30, 2010)

Soiset, here a great *noodling *link from the chainsaw forum (with pics & vids).

The Official "Noodles" Pic and Vid Thread


----------



## DHIBBS75 (May 2, 2010)

I went a few yrs ago and picked up a big pine tree from town that was just cut down fresh.. It overloaded my 16 ft trailer with 2 foot sides I blew to tires bringing it home... Pine is sticky burns to fast and is not worth it in my book.... I mostly cut hickory, oak or most anything free.. I mainly cut trees down around the farmers field that have blown down or is coming down with a trackhoe. I wont go to the woods and just start cutting trees for no reason. Let mothernature take them down then Ill gettem......:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## hunter0182 (May 11, 2010)

*live oak*

I have never had the pleasure to split a live oak,they would hang us around here if we cut a live oak,they are all along the coast of georgia and the barrier islands,they have actually had cases in court where people tried to stop people from cutting them, we have a lot of them along the river,i have two troybuilt 27 ton splitters, and my son has tried to find something it wont split,blowed a seal; on one,but it still split the knot,


----------



## WoodchuckPaddy (May 11, 2010)

smoothED said:


> You guys up north are talking about oak,live oak is a compleatly differant animal



Yep, I think of us Yankees are unaware of this.
All we generally see is white and red.

"Live" when it is standing, dead when it aint'.

Just sayin'


----------



## WoodchuckPaddy (May 11, 2010)

smoothED said:


> You have live oak shipped to connecticut?



Yes.

To Mystic seaport for boat building...


----------



## TXTreeSurgeon (May 17, 2010)

We sell mostly Live Oak and Mesquite here in Texas. Those are two types of firewood that just don't exist up north. Live Oak is the nastiest wood you ever tried to split. We broken the toe plate off a 35 ton Huskee splitter 3 times after doing full radius welds each time it broke off. Finally, we welded some braces to the toe plate and we haven't had any trouble since. However, if it has a knot in it, even the 35 ton usually won't split it. Live Oak is the longest burning firewood that I have ever used. 5 or 6 meaty logs can easily last 6-8 hours in a fireplace before needing to add more wood.


----------

