# power lines



## miko0618 (Jul 18, 2013)

I searched and found some threads with answers but not real specific. I usually have the homeowner call and get the utility company trim the limbs that are in the power line. on a service line, I have them take it down. if I cant have either done or am nervous, I pass on the job. I looked at a white pine today. its a massive tree. some of the needles, probably the last foot of limb, is in the power line on the street. its not heavy limb contact and probably 30' from the trunk. I don't need to be near the line to remove the limb. if I cut the limb, it would fall right down. the stuff above I can tip rig. my question is, should I call for this? would this amount of contact be a threat? I can do it from all rope, no spikes, if that helps. I could hand saw it. really, I want to be safe. I don't trust electricity and don't know what safe limits are other than stay away from it. if its in an energized line, wouldn't it be fried? or is the wire insulation preventing this? am I paranoid?


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## ATH (Jul 18, 2013)

I'd call.


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## miko0618 (Jul 18, 2013)

i am. I've never called for so little before. maybe they'll hack er up like they do. not hating, i respect them but man do they create some ugly trees


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## pdqdl (Jul 18, 2013)

This so easy to answer. This kind of thing comes up all the time, and the answer is always the same. 

If there is any chance whatsoever of you or anything you are attached to touching the wire, you should call the power company. Primary wires deliver high voltage right back out to you, no matter how far away you are. Just let the guys that are trained for that stuff do it.

If you need to ask if you can, you had better not even think about it. Gaining experience around power lines usually means getting introduced to the arboricultural injuries forum.


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## beastmaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Even if you did it from a rope. If the ropes hanging to the ground, that could be all it takes. Even with a pole saw, juice can travel down the pole from dirt and moisture in side the pole to your body. I got zapped once when a 40ft tall pine sapling leaned into the HV and I tryed to kick the butt out with my booted foot. I also got it once when a rope went across them from the rope. Iv'e had several close calls over the years. Lot of people only have one. It's just not worth it.


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## isaaccarlson (Jul 18, 2013)

Those lines run 7,000+ volts and a LOT of amps. They will fry you to crispy 6 different ways before you know what happened. I know of one guy who got zapped and lived, the rest died on contact. Have the power company trim them back from the line and then you can do the rest. Don't mess with high voltage or high amps. 1/3 of an amp can kill you and 25 volts is the human threshold for pain.

We built a capacitor in high school physics class out of tupperware and tin foil. One student spent half the class period rubbing a piece of fur on a plastic rod and touching the capacitor to "charge it". At the end of class, the teacher had each student touch the capacitor and feel the little tiny shock. I was the last one to touch it and it was almost empty by that point. I reached out and POP!!! There was enough juice in it to jump 2 inches and hit my finger. The reason I got hit with the full dose was because the kids were wearing shoes on a linoleum floor and they were not grounded. They only felt a little prick when they touched it. I had my left hand on the vertical rod of the overhead projector and it was plugged in, grounding me. When I reached out to touch the capacitor, it had enough voltage to jump 2 inches and launch me into the air and then knock me onto the floor. I felt my heart stop for about 2 seconds and then start again. I felt the current go up my right arm, through my chest, down my left arm and out the center of my left palm. THAT HURT.
I thought I was dead. The teacher and everyone else thought I was faking, until I asked what happened. The teacher and I both realized why it happened at about the same time.

I don't know how much juice was in that whiz-bang capacitor, but it was a LOT. The teacher said it could have been as high as 100,000 volts! The amps are unknown, but I feel lucky to be alive. It felt like a bomb went off in my chest and then it was still. 2 seconds later I felt my heart start beating again. Don't mess with electricity. You might find out the hard way.


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## miko0618 (Jul 18, 2013)

The power company said its cable and phone line. On the whole pole?


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## Zale (Jul 18, 2013)

That's possible.


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## arathol (Jul 18, 2013)

miko0618 said:


> The power company said its cable and phone line. On the whole pole?



Maybe you should start at square one and learn how to tell the difference before you go anywhere near utility poles.


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## newsawtooth (Jul 18, 2013)

arathol said:


> Maybe you should start at square one and learn how to tell the difference before you go anywhere near utility poles.



To be fair, ANSI Z133.1 -4.1.1 states: All overhead and underground electrical conductors and all communications wires and cables shall be considered energized with potentially fatal voltages.

Doesn't really matter if you can differentiate. The power company won't maintain clearance for service lines between the pole and the house, but those lines are considered charged with fatal voltages by ANSI. I've struggled to reconcile this every time I have to clear pole to house lines or remove V trimmed trees in the right of way.


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## miko0618 (Jul 18, 2013)

arathol said:


> Maybe you should start at square one and learn how to tell the difference before you go anywhere near utility poles.



I see... Maybe you missed the point in that i have no desire to go near a powerline. And that i would rather ask or call the service provider for no reason than get educated, make a mistake and die. But i appreciate your pointless, rude comment.


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## pdqdl (Jul 18, 2013)

miko0618 said:


> ... my question is, should I call for this? would this amount of contact be a threat? I can do it from all rope, no spikes, ...



No one is being rude here except yourself. We are answering the question you posted.



arathol said:


> Maybe you should start at square one and learn how to tell the difference before you go anywhere near utility poles.



Like I said. If you have to ask if it is safe, you shouldn't do it.

Knowledge is the strength that keeps you alive. Without it, you are likely to fry.


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## arathol (Jul 18, 2013)

miko0618 said:


> I searched and found some threads with answers but not real specific. I usually have the homeowner call and get the utility company trim the limbs that are in the power line. on a service line, I have them take it down. if I cant have either done or am nervous, I pass on the job. I looked at a white pine today. its a massive tree. some of the needles, probably the last foot of limb, is in the power line on the street. its not heavy limb contact and probably 30' from the trunk. I don't need to be near the line to remove the limb. if I cut the limb, it would fall right down. the stuff above I can tip rig. my question is, should I call for this? * would this amount of contact be a threat?* I can do it from all rope, no spikes, if that helps. I could hand saw it. really, I want to be safe. I don't trust electricity and *don't know what safe limits are other than stay away from itif its in an energized line, wouldn't it be fried? or is the wire insulation preventing this?*. am I paranoid?


 



miko0618 said:


> The power company said its cable and phone line.* On the whole pole?*






miko0618 said:


> I see... Maybe you missed the point in that i have no desire to go near a powerline. And that i would rather ask or call the service provider for no reason than get educated, make a mistake and die. But i appreciate your pointless, rude comment.



Not pointless or rude at all. You asked a lot of questions that seem to indicate a lack of education and understanding in this area. If you don't even know what powerlines look like or what the safe limits are, you need to get the right training or you will eventually learn the hard way.


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## arathol (Jul 18, 2013)

newsawtooth said:


> To be fair, ANSI Z133.1 -4.1.1 states: All overhead and underground electrical conductors and all communications wires and cables shall be considered energized with potentially fatal voltages.
> 
> Doesn't really matter if you can differentiate. The power company won't maintain clearance for service lines between the pole and the house, but those lines are considered charged with fatal voltages by ANSI. I've struggled to reconcile this every time I have to clear pole to house lines or remove V trimmed trees in the right of way.



Yes, you should assume any overhead line is charged. However, if you are doing any sort of work anywhere near overheads on even a regular but limited basis you really should be able to differentiate between 14kv transmission lines and a cable tv feed. Where I work the local power company does have a training program that teaches how to identify what is on the pole and what the safe limits of approach are for the various types of transmission lines that might be found on utility poles. The guy does some good demos that clearly demonstrate that the 10' rule is just a minimum starting point, not a set distance for every powerline.


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## Zale (Jul 18, 2013)

miko0618 said:


> I see... Maybe you missed the point in that i have no desire to go near a powerline. And that i would rather ask or call the service provider for no reason than get educated, make a mistake and die. But i appreciate your pointless, rude comment.



I don't think it was meant to be rude. Being able to identify the various lines on a pole is basic Arborist 101.


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## miko0618 (Jul 18, 2013)

it seemed rude. I apologize if it wasn't a snide comment. I have no desire to do power line work. i enjoy my job and do it by choice. if that was a part of my job, i'd quit.


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## woodchuck357 (Jul 18, 2013)

*One person's "witty" comment is another's rude thoughtless put-down*

The OP is obviously looking for enlightenment, he just choose the wrong forum in which to ask for it!


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## pdqdl (Jul 19, 2013)

I don't see that as an issue at all. Arb 101 is where enlightenment occurs. Just don't bring your thin skin, and it helps if you can be appreciative of crusty curmudgeons that might not exactly tell you what you wanted to hear.

Sometimes it can be tough to take what sounds like criticism; it is human nature to toss out a little resentment. The OP was not out of line, everybody spoke their mind like grownups, and it seems to have turned out well.

I think some enlightenment was given, but no one really answered the basic question about identifying the wires. Without going into big details, it is easy to tell the normally-not-too-dangerous wires from the holy-crap-stay-away primary wires.

1. If it is at the top of a pole, it is deadly.
2. If it is a bare wire attached to an insulator, it is deadly. Yes, there are some ground wires that look like this, but they can get you too.
3. If it is a big fat "black covered" wire beneath the other deadly wires, it is probably the telephone cables.
4. If it is a thinner "black covered" wire near the big fat telephone wires, it is probably a cable tv wire.
5. If it is a "black covered" thin wire near the top of the pole that is hanging from insulators: it is probably lower voltage secondary wires that can still kill you if you really get crosswise with it. Normally, not too dangerous to ropes or sweeping branches. When the "insulation" gets old and starts cracking, it is really a lot of fun to bounce the wires into each other with a falling branch and watch the wires arc against each other and burn off the "insulation". 
6. If it runs to the house meter from the pole, it is a secondary wire like #5 above.


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## miko0618 (Jul 21, 2013)

I went out and looked at the situation again. on 1 side of the street there is power wires. on the other side there are phone and cable. there are 4 wires on the phone pole. they are all the same. like a black tube with a thin wire swirled around. the lowest one is the largest. I saw no transformer or insulators on any of the poles on this side of the street. on the other side, its obviously all power. I also traced the power from the homes to make sure none went to the phone pole. so, my next question is, how sturdy are phone and cable wires? can they take a tug or light bumps?


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## pdqdl (Jul 22, 2013)

Really? 

The fact that you are asking these questions suggests a significant lack of expertise. This really sounds like it should be in the homeowner helper forum, although the answer is going to be the same: hire someone that knows what they are doing.

Those of us that actually know what we are doing with pruning and utility service have an excellent understanding of the risks involved and how to avoid the problems. No amount of on-line advice can give you the necessary talent to go near the utility service, so we are generally unwilling to give advice like that when we think it will just make you feel qualified to go get into trouble.

On this specific latest comment, you should not touch the wires at all with any falling branches, even if you think they are not going to electrocute you. This eliminates the risk of damage to wires or to yourself.


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## joezilla11 (Jul 22, 2013)

A black insulated line with a wire swirled around it sounds like power to me


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 22, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> Really?
> 
> The fact that you are asking these questions suggests a significant lack of expertise. This really sounds like it should be in the homeowner helper forum, although the answer is going to be the same: hire someone that knows what they are doing.
> 
> ...



100% Agree

If you don't have a clear and precise grasp on what you are looking at, you shouldn't be messing with it.......... at all. Get with the line clearance outfit in your area, they will show you. Plus, if it is within 10ft, they will come do it for free. Often, when I call them, which in of its self is not often. Anyway, the guys show and they like to hang, so they always end up doing more than I need. Which works for me. Last time, we cooked up some chow for the guys and they stayed most of the day. We were on a big removal and they did half the tree! Saved me a bunch of money, and I didn't have to work near the lines.


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## miko0618 (Jul 22, 2013)

Oh god.. nevermind.


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## pdqdl (Jul 22, 2013)

What town are you working in? 

We will be sure to monitor the news and post your "accident" in the Arboricultural injuries forum. I guess if you just rip down the 600 pair telephone wire, that will never make the news. I hope you know that if it ends up needing repair and fell off the pole just because it was ready to fall anyway, you will still get the bill for a full repair.

Be sure to let us know how it all turns out.


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## pdqdl (Jul 22, 2013)

miko0618 said:


> Oh god.. nevermind.



You really shouldn't be that way. I have been climbing and removing trees for over 25 years, and I still call the line clearance trimmers every single time it is required. When you act like it doesn't matter, we know we will be hearing about you eventually.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 22, 2013)

"Go ahead and cut em, you'll be fine"

Is that the post you were looking for? Not gonna happen here.If you're looking for sound advice, you've gotten it. If you want advice on that particular tree, post some pics. If you want to do work ANYWHERE near powerlines, then get some education. And if you want to work in this business, grow skin like oak, cause if the saw doesn't cut ya, your coworkers will. Sometimes good advice hurts, but not as much as not listening and paying the price of not taking it. I've been doing this work a long time, and one thing I'm proud of is tye worst injury any of my guys had was a bruised ego. That I can live with. The last big co. I left had 4 major injuries within the next three months, and it still haunts me , because I know I could have prevented them.

So whatever all you want, miko, but we'd kind of like to keep you around, and I didn't see any advice on this thread that I didn't think was on point, even if you didn't like the packaging.

And that's all I've got to say about that.

Jeff


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## lxt (Jul 22, 2013)

Zale said:


> I don't think it was meant to be rude. Being able to identify the various lines on a pole is basic Arborist 101.



I agree, but whats sad is when "basic" ID by supposed Pros is messed up, High voltage in the utility industry usually starts at 23T or 25T depending on the utility, actually we consider high lines 69kv & above, what the OP is trimming around & what most of us trim around is distribution.

The truth is if you cant ID a powerline from a cable or bell line you have no biz trimming the tree


LXT........


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## arathol (Jul 22, 2013)

miko0618 said:


> there are 4 wires on the phone pole. they are all the same. like a black tube with a thin wire swirled around. the lowest one is the largest.



That would be the phone lines. Most are a bundle of 2 or 3 larger lines and a stainless 3/8" support cable all wrapped up with stainless wire. The whole thing is about 4 or 5 inches in diameter. 




miko0618 said:


> so, my next question is, how sturdy are phone and cable wires? can they take a tug or light bumps?



Depends on how its hung and if there is strain relief built into the system. Sometimes they just fall, sometimes they don't. I've seen telephone lines pinned to the ground under a large pine tree spring right back up when the tree was removed.


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## miko0618 (Jul 22, 2013)

Thank you for answering my question. 

I DID call the power company. They DID come out. I dont know how that information was missed. I am paranoid about getting shocked and i dont work around electricity. That information seems to have been missed as well. In this case, i will not be within 50' of electricity. And i wasnt planning on ripping down the phone lines, the tip is grown into it. Again, how that info was missed, i dont know. I am taking every precaution i can to make sure theres no power. And 1 of my resources was this site. I got some solid information. For those that gave it, i appreciate it. I work very safe, clean and am a professional. So go wait for me to turn up in the injury forum if you like, i have things to do.


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## pdqdl (Jul 22, 2013)

miko0618 said:


> Thank you for answering my question.
> 
> I DID call the power company. They DID come out. I dont know how that information was missed. I am paranoid about getting shocked and i dont work around electricity. That information seems to have been missed as well. In this case, i will not be within 50' of electricity. And i wasnt planning on ripping down the phone lines, the tip is grown into it. Again, how that info was missed, i dont know. I am taking every precaution i can to make sure theres no power. And 1 of my resources was this site. I got some solid information. For those that gave it, i appreciate it. I work very safe, clean and am a professional. So go wait for me to turn up in the injury forum if you like, i have things to do.



The info was missed because you never said that you called the power company. You did say this:


miko0618 said:


> ...I usually have the homeowner call and get the utility company trim the limbs that are in the power line...



Honestly, you sound like a total newbie that is trying to obscure your ignorance while asking newbie questions. Sorry if you don't care for that opinion, but I just can't help it. That's what your posts sound like to me.

You are not quite as rude as many of the folks that post here at AS, but you have certainly shown a willingness to share your opinions, so we have presumed that we don't need to treat you with kid gloves. Have fun, hang out, learn a bunch, and try not to pick any fights (verbal) that you don't want to finish. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, you can't be too thin skinned in Arb 101. _If you think we are a rough lot here, come on down to commercial climbing and test the waters there._


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## 7.3 rocket (Jul 22, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> You are not quite as rude as many of the folks that post here at AS, but you have certainly shown a willingness to share your opinions, so we have presumed that we don't need to treat you with kid gloves. Have fun, hang out, learn a bunch, and try not to pick any fights (verbal) that you don't want to finish. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, you can't be too thin skinned in Arb 101. _If you think we are a rough lot here, come on down to commercial climbing and test the waters there._



Or walk into any big shop before the crews leave for the morning! 

I'm only about a year into all this and the ones with the insulators are the ones you gotta worry about. Primaries, secondaries, and service drops can all kill.

Remember the insulation on the line is there to protect the line NOT you.


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## miko0618 (Jul 23, 2013)

I don't think the thickness of my skin is the issue. i'm not going to cower down from a bunch of egos on the internet. i am not a rude person because i stand up for myself. I am a total powerline newbie because I wont do work around them. period. i was never deceptive about my knowledge or experience level with this. in fact, i was very open that i had none. i came here to learn information. which i did. and none of what i learned came from the lectures and pointless stereotyping. i was here to determine the safety factor of the tree. if it was something i was not comfortable with, i would pass on the job. no big deal. it turned out to be a limb tip growing into some phone lines. i feel pretty safe with that. but i wanted to be 100 percent certain that was the case. I clearly stated that the power company said it was all phone and cable. and I asked if it could be the whole pole. you guys don't even read the information before you jump.


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## miko0618 (Jul 23, 2013)

anyway, thanks for the information about the wires. i now know more about whats what. but will still call for a trim for no reason if need be. i will look into training on identifying whats on the pole. but i still wont work near one with power. when i was younger i saw a wire cook a stick til it exploded on tv and ever since i wont go near them. this tree only has some needles into the wires. the rest of the tree is far away. that's why i was interested in it. i assumed it was power because of my respect for electricity. and i totally understand why some of you thought i was an idiot for not realizing it was phone. my lack of knowledge is why i asked. and to be honest, if the limb would have been into the lines more i would have said to the homeowner to call someone else, i don't work near power lines. all the while it was a phone pole. i don't know how much i want to know about working near them. i would imagine the more i knew, the more confident i would get and i would start taking jobs with the added risk of electrocution. 

no hard feelings on my side. i am a bit difficult at times. but i stand firm in my belief in myself.

mike


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## pdqdl (Jul 23, 2013)

I'm glad that is settled. 

If it is any consolation, I don't go near the power lines either. At least not the primaries. I don't really have too much respect for the secondaries (house wiring voltage) because I know the voltage wont travel down my ropes, nor bridge an air gap and come electrocute me. That, and I am sure that I can keep from being the conduit to ground for 120 volts.


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## tramp bushler (Jul 23, 2013)

Ya, you guys r a bunch a meanies. :msp_rolleyes:

:ah::big_smile:


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## pdqdl (Jul 23, 2013)

Hey there, Tramp! 

I guess us arbs seem like a bunch of woosies to you Alaskan lumberjacks.


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## tramp bushler (Jul 23, 2013)

Now there's a fight starter. . 
Never call a coastal logger a lumberjack. 
Oh my gosh. Fist city boys. 

But actually arbs are kinda different. It kinda wierds me out, but I'm getting used to it. 
Not trying to start a fight but I get a lot of can't do that from arbs whereas with loggers it get er done. Now!!!!!! . 
But its cool. I'm learnin stuff . Good stuff.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 23, 2013)

Just remember Tramp, when a logger drops a tree wrong, he gets a hanger. When an arb does it, he ends up buying a house he didn't really want.:msp_wink:


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## pdqdl (Jul 23, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> ... Never call a coastal logger a lumberjack...



Noted!

By the way, I have always been one of those "get it done" types too. I'm not so much a nay-sayer, but I do have a tendency to tell folks when they are probably going to get in over their head.


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## tramp bushler (Jul 23, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Just remember Tramp, when a logger drops a tree wrong, he gets a hanger. When an arb does it, he ends up buying a house he didn't really want.:msp_wink:




Any logger that ( Drops) a tree should be fired just out of hand. 
If he can't ( fall) it he got no business sticking a saw in it. 

And I'm in agreement with 90+% of everything you guys are saying. I think it's mostly an application thing. I have a unique set of circumstances that call for unique solutions :msp_w00t:


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## tramp bushler (Jul 23, 2013)

We most definitely have ( a way things have to be done) and time , money and a lot of guys getting killed have proven that out. 


So here's a? When you guys are coming down out of the tree. Do u use an 8 below your friction hitch?


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## Zale (Jul 24, 2013)

No, just nice and easy so I don't glaze my hitch. Figure 8 tends to hockle (sp?) the rope up as you come down.


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 24, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> he got no business sticking a saw in it.



That made me laugh, going to keep that one!


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 24, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> We most definitely have ( a way things have to be done) and time , money and a lot of guys getting killed have proven that out.
> 
> 
> So here's a? When you guys are coming down out of the tree. Do u use an 8 below your friction hitch?



Tramp, if it's a longer descent I'll switch from my vt to an eight to save wear on my rope and hitch. Or if I have it ready to pull I'll come down on the bullrope. I carry a large rescue eight that will take a doubled climbline or a 3/4 bullrope. Saves wear and tear and , well, it's fun!


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## pdqdl (Jul 24, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> Any logger that ( Drops) a tree should be fired just out of hand.
> If he can't ( fall) it he got no business sticking a saw in it.
> 
> ...



Ok. I gots to pick on you now.

Since this is arb 101, you need to unnerstan' that you uneddicated west coast fellers are abusing the english language. 
_[..........please note the clever use of colloquial speech to emphasize my use of the term "fellers" with a dual meaning/usage "fellers: those fellows who cut down trees for a living.]_

One does not "fall" anything. When something is falling, it is due to gravity and some activity that has terminated whatever has been holding it up. When something is dropped, it is due to an action that causes that object to fall. 

So...being grammatically superior to you west coast fallers, us arbs "drop" trees rather than "fall" them. 

[Note1: I realize that it is pure folly to consider that any west coast tree workers will ever consider modifying their trade jargon due to my comments. Nonetheless, I feel entitled since it isn't your forum. otstir:]

[Note2: one can accurately argue that a tree is "felled" (but not falled, nor fallen) by a tree worker who might be out felling trees all day long without ever breaking any grammatical rules. You fellers just need to get up to speed on your arb terminology]


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 24, 2013)

Drop it, fellit, fall it, just don't hit the dam house.


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## lone wolf (Jul 24, 2013)

*Hey Mike look at this!*



miko0618 said:


> I searched and found some threads with answers but not real specific. I usually have the homeowner call and get the utility company trim the limbs that are in the power line. on a service line, I have them take it down. if I cant have either done or am nervous, I pass on the job. I looked at a white pine today. its a massive tree. some of the needles, probably the last foot of limb, is in the power line on the street. its not heavy limb contact and probably 30' from the trunk. I don't need to be near the line to remove the limb. if I cut the limb, it would fall right down. the stuff above I can tip rig. my question is, should I call for this? would this amount of contact be a threat? I can do it from all rope, no spikes, if that helps. I could hand saw it. really, I want to be safe. I don't trust electricity and don't know what safe limits are other than stay away from it. if its in an energized line, wouldn't it be fried? or is the wire insulation preventing this? am I paranoid?





[video]http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=tree+explodes+powerlines&mid=8200BADCD002B8E710FE8200BADCD002B8E710FE&view=detail&FORM=VIRE5[/video]

Watch it all the way to the end and see if this answers your question!


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## miko0618 (Jul 25, 2013)

so was the second bolt the test surge when the line shorts? 

this is exactly why I don't mess with power wires.


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## rarefish383 (Jul 27, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> I'm glad that is settled.
> 
> If it is any consolation, I don't go near the power lines either. At least not the primaries. I don't really have too much respect for the secondaries (house wiring voltage) because I know the voltage wont travel down my ropes, nor bridge an air gap and come electrocute me. That, and I am sure that I can keep from being the conduit to ground for 120 volts.



I know you are talking about the secondary's, but just to be sure no one misunderstands, a dry rope makes a real good conductor,I know. I was doing all of the roping from up in the tree because I had a friend on the ground that didn't know how to run ropes. Middle of July, not a drop of rain in weeks, dry as popcorn. I let the tip of a Maple limb brush a line and got buzzed pretty good. Spent the next hour with the pole saw cutting little pieces off the end till it was clear, Joe.


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## lone wolf (Jul 27, 2013)

rarefish383 said:


> I know you are talking about the secondary's, but just to be sure no one misunderstands, a dry rope makes a real good conductor,I know. I was doing all of the roping from up in the tree because I had a friend on the ground that didn't know how to run ropes. Middle of July, not a drop of rain in weeks, dry as popcorn. I let the tip of a Maple limb brush a line and got buzzed pretty good. Spent the next hour with the pole saw cutting little pieces off the end till it was clear, Joe.



What did you lay it on 7200? Was the rope new and clean or old with dirt on it etc?


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## pdqdl (Jul 27, 2013)

rarefish383 said:


> I know you are talking about the secondary's, but just to be sure no one misunderstands, a dry rope makes a real good conductor,I know. I was doing all of the roping from up in the tree because I had a friend on the ground that didn't know how to run ropes. Middle of July, not a drop of rain in weeks, dry as popcorn. I let the tip of a Maple limb brush a line and got buzzed pretty good. Spent the next hour with the pole saw cutting little pieces off the end till it was clear, Joe.



Secondaries are generally never higher than 480 volts. That will not go down any dry rope hat I know of. The branches themselves might carry a taste of electricity back to you.


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## lone wolf (Jul 27, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> Secondaries are generally never higher than 480 volts. That will not go down any dry rope hat I know of. The branches themselves might carry a taste of electricity back to you.



Dirty or oily rope will carry I am told.


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## pdqdl (Jul 27, 2013)

I had a KCPL lineman tell me not to worry about getting my rope over a primary once. I was completely shocked (by his statement) and asked him how he could say that. My rope was clearly not a clean new rope, and I pointed that out. He began to mumble around a little then, and admitted that a really dirty rope might not be a good idea over a primary. 

Given that the average primary in our area is at 14kv or more (they are phasing out the 7k lines), I feel pretty safe with a rope over a shielded secondary.

I cut down a large dead silver maple once, using a rope winch to pull it in the right direction. When it hit the ground, the branch that my pull line was tied off on shattered and flung a 20-30lb chunk of wood about 50 feet backwards, up and over the primary wire feeding the transformer in the area, and then back down to the ground. :msp_w00t: 

It was incredible, I have never seen anything like it before or since.

I had no insulated tools nor any experience with the problem, it was a Saturday, and I figured we would never get a lineman to come out to the rural location to pull our rope out. I made a few pokes at the rope with progressively less insulating materials until I felt safe in touching the rope. No shocks whatsoever, I untied the chunk of wood and pulled out the rope.

It is pretty scary playing with high voltage when you are not qualified; I don't recommend it to anyone.


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## freeweight (Aug 10, 2013)

Man grabs high voltage train wire NOT FOR WEAK HEARTED - YouTube


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## tramp bushler (Aug 10, 2013)

Sorry freeweight ; I didn't click the link. There are just some things that I Don't want to see.


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## freeweight (Aug 10, 2013)

yea its pretty crazy ,i would never climb near a power line,a latin guy that used to work for us had a power pruner up a tree and it hit a power line ,he died 

friend of mine from school supposedly was cutting the last limb or the top out of a pine and it layed ofver on the line ,he died


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## beastmaster (Aug 10, 2013)

I got buzzed pretty good years ago when a 1 in. three strand rope went over some primarily. My trimming saw was still running I cut the bull line. It wasn't life threatening bad I don't think, but not comfortable either. Electricity can travel through rope from dirt and moisture. Same with a fiberglass poll. Foamfilled ones suppose to be safer because dirt and moisture can't build up inside like it can in a hollow one.
I work sometimes with this guy who's brother used a pool scupper aluminum handle on his prunner head, tell one day he touched a HV line with it. Killed him instantly.


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## tramp bushler (Aug 10, 2013)

Thanks guys for gettin me good and scared. . We are in the last half of summer here and Valdez, where I'm climbing is a rain forest. So its the start of the rainy season. I just leave the limbs that are over the lines. If they want to do a new contract then that's fine. Just too many horror stories for me to fool with it. And they seem very happy with what I've been doing. I think they get more line sag from the snow than they do limb sag.


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## miko0618 (Aug 10, 2013)

after all this and some research I feel much better about powerlines. just out of curiosity, can a service line conduct through a limb?


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## pdqdl (Aug 11, 2013)

Yes.

That being said, it is very unlikely to conduct electricity down the branch, out through the bark, electrocute a climber, and then finish back down to ground. Service lines are usually wrapped with a grounding outer shield, and that makes it pretty hard to short out fatally.

Now if that service line was three separate of 480 service line, and you cut a branch that swept across the not-so-insulating black wrap on the wire, and your old metal handled chainsaw was the only bridge to ground through your spurs buried in the tree...it might not look so good for your future.

For the most part, it takes big voltage to bridge things like leather gloves, plastic handles on saws, fiberglass pruning poles, and non-conductive rope. If you ask the power company, they will tell you to keep the #### away from the service lines.

If you are not grounded in any way, you are pretty safe from any form of electricity. Just look at all the pigeons you can find sitting on a primary. Standing in my (dry) tennis shoes on the ceramic tiles in my bathroom, I have deliberately pinched the bare hot lead (120v) while live wiring the light switch, just to prove a point to my wife. That works out entirely different if you are on a concrete floor in your bare feet, or get careless and touch the plumbing or something else grounded. I have also watched primary voltage flowing down a wood utility pole in a huge glowing river of electricity. It wasn't enough current to blow the circuit breakers, but it was enough to slowly incinerate the power pole. Electricity flows to ground. If there is too much resistance, there is no current.


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## miko0618 (Aug 11, 2013)

I've been buzzed by service lines with missing insulation hanging siding. its a lot like a 110 outlet in a house. it wouldn't seem like cutting a limb that's contacting it would get you. but I've never tried and could be wrong. I just have em taken down. I just looked at a maple in the city that has 3 lines to 3 different houses going through it. that means the H.O. and 2 of his neighbors will be without power for a day. I kinda feel bad but i'm not getting nailed. maybe I wont get the bid anyway.


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## imalogger (Aug 15, 2013)

I cut a black walnut tree for my brother a couple yrs ago that was growing next to a 7k line and had a couple of small branches that had grown toward the line and were growing leaves between the top and bottom wire. I know this isn't the approved method but if your out in the country and have a clear shooting lane beyond the tree, a 12 ga shotgun with a turkey choke works pretty well. I stood in the basket of the manlift about 10-15 feet away from the offending branch and blew it off. It took about 3-4 shots and I had the branch on the ground and could safely work on the rest of the tree.


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## pdqdl (Aug 15, 2013)

So...why didn't you just get a 50 cal Ma Deuce (.50 BMG) and have some real fun with it?

Film it and make a fortune on utube; I can guarantee that I would want to see someone trim a tree with a machine gun.


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## miko0618 (Aug 15, 2013)

off topic but my grandfather and uncle where shooting clay birds in the back yard towards a field. they never even noticed they where shooting down the power line until it fell.


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## imalogger (Aug 16, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> So...why didn't you just get a 50 cal Ma Deuce (.50 BMG) and have some real fun with it?
> 
> Film it and make a fortune on utube; I can guarantee that I would want to see someone trim a tree with a machine gun.



Ill have to say that would be a fun way to trim some trees as long as you didn't have any neighbors in a 5 mile radius.. The problem is, with the price of ammo these days all id get done is the lilacs before I ran otta $$$..


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