# soil as wound dressing



## treeist (Jan 17, 2003)

Several years ago I was speaking with Denise Frolich and John Britton, both consulting arborists and authors of the certification program in calif. Denise is past president of asca and western chapter ISA. About the benifits of using soil or mud to rub into large pruning cuts to discolor them. They both thought soil was an excellent wound dressing. I want to know if anyone has heard of this and if anyone uses soil to cover pruning cuts


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 17, 2003)

What about spreading soil born diseases, like Virt Wilt?


----------



## Menchhofer (Jan 17, 2003)

Veriticillium Wilt..fungus... survives in soil for years


----------



## Reed (Jan 17, 2003)

He's doing more than just delivering code. 

Locating him and sending a salvo.


----------



## treeclimber165 (Jan 17, 2003)

See my post in 'Support and Announcements' about MilkMan. 

JPS, Why haven't you deleted his post yet?


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 17, 2003)

I thought I had. I took the code out now.

I cannot do anything with the other forums though.


----------



## treeist (Jan 17, 2003)

Can vert wilt be spread by rubbing infected soil on suseptible host?


----------



## Menchhofer (Jan 17, 2003)

There is no cure for trees affected by verticillium wilt.

Fungus lives in soil and enters plants through the root system and attacks xylem (water conducting tissue).


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 17, 2003)

Yes it can.

Here is a search on it.

http://search.dogpile.com/texis/search?method=&top=1&brand=dogpile&q=verticilium+wilt&cat=web

It is a rule of thimb around here that commercial topsoil is infected. It usulay comes from pasture land where the weeds host the fungus.


----------



## ORclimber (Jan 17, 2003)

A new product? Different colored soils for different trees. Iron rich red soil for redwoods and cedars, there's a Jory soil here in the Willamette Valley that would be perfect. Some silty dark muck for black walnut. There must be some white stuff for birch out there somewhere. Collect it, sterilize it, bag it, and sell it. Can you patent dirt? I've painted wounds on one tree and God knows(if there is a god) I'll never do it again!


----------



## treeist (Jan 17, 2003)

JPS
I checked the info you advised me to and found that vert wilt only infects root tissue and root injuries. soil infected with vert wilt will not infect trees if you rub some on the pruning cuts.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by treeist _
> *JPS
> soil infected with vert wilt will not infect trees if you rub some on the pruning cuts. *



What information lead you to this conclusion?


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 18, 2003)

One of those pages said just "injuries"

Vert is a systemic disease, all it has to do is enter the vascular sysytem

I've seen where it has entered through mower damamge where fresh topsoil was used for topdress.


----------



## treeist (Jan 18, 2003)

The artical you directed me to, stated as you have in your experience. "infected when Injuries of root and collar tissue" Is not root tissue physiologically different than above ground bark? 
Can I also get Armalaria and phytopthora in my tree?
What if I have Mud on my shoes when I climb? Sometimes its muddy underneath a tree and I make marks on the bark with my tennis shoes. Should I wipe them on my pray I dont fall again carpet befor acending aloft?


----------



## ORclimber (Jan 18, 2003)

I took some landscaping classes at Portland Community College and the instructors recommended disinfecting pruning tools between cuts whenever pruning a tree with verticilium wilt. They were saying spray your hand pruners with lysol. Is there a difference between introducing verticilium from cut to cut, or from soil to cut as far as the host is concerned?


----------



## Menchhofer (Jan 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by treeist _
> *The artical you directed me to, stated as you have in your experience. "infected when Injuries of root and collar tissue" Is not root tissue physiologically different than above ground bark?*
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Eric E. (Jan 18, 2003)

I'm trying to get the picture of this scenario in my mind. 

Someone is pruning a tree and for some reason wants to hide some of the "white eyes". The ground support person sends up a bit of soil. (I have done this in the past once or twice.) Where is the ground person going to get the soil? Most likely from right under the tree. If the soil comes from under the tree and is infected by Vert. Wilt it doesn't matter if it might be passed through the pruning cut or not. The tree would already be infected if it were susceptible since there are many root injuries occurring over time.


----------



## ORclimber (Jan 18, 2003)

Here's a web page on Vert. wilt. It looks like some infected trees can compartmentalize it.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG1164.html


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 19, 2003)

How about wood decaying fungi, think there are any of those spores in soil?

I've head of rubbing dirt on human wounds too, I suspect it was tounge in cheek though. I personally would not rub dirt on one of my wounds any more than a tree wound, without some evidence that it is not harmful.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 19, 2003)

Mike Wendt spoke once of a study that shwed that using dirt clonized the wound with begnine flora and fauna wich could reduce the incidance of infection.

Most systemic pathogens can be compartmentalized by a tree with high vigor and vitality. But why risk it on a trunk wound?


----------



## Solace (Jan 19, 2003)

*Hide it trick*

I have always known of this as an old landscapers lawn maintenance trick. Rather than face the Homeowners or Arborists wrath, the purveyor of lawn moweritice or weed whackeritice can hide the wound with a good soil rubbing. By the time you spot it, ageing is difficult

I have never seen evidence of any benefit to the tree that prevention would'nt cure.

Norm St. Jean


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 19, 2003)

An ounce of prevention...


----------



## treeist (Jan 20, 2003)

I think I first heard of this from an old arborist in saratoga calif Lee Lesh, Lees Tree surgeons, and It has been something I have been curious about. Only to discolor a pruning cut that distracts from the natural beauty of the tree. It came be that when I was working for John Britton in St Helena Calif he showed me one tree his crew had pruned for robert Mondavi for 7500.00 alot of money to prune one tree in the 80s. I noticed a large pruning cut on the bowl of the tree that distracted from the beauty and asked John and Denise they had never heard of it but the flora fauna answer is what I remember Denise saying.

John Kakouris certified since 88


----------

