# Tips for getting in and out of these trims faster.....



## 802climber (Nov 9, 2011)

I have been working at a new job climbing for a guy who is a Bucket Op only and bids accordingly.

Only problem is I am not superman, and I care a lot about the quality of tree work I leave in my trail.

I have gotten much better at prioritizing what will make the most difference in the amount of time allotted, and finding out what HO wants to see from the ground.

On my own solo trims I can often afford to make out with each tree and do a 100% job.

However I have been sent to some jobs lately that are bid for 5 or 6 climbs in 3 or 4 hours -- easy, medium or hard climbs often with roping involved.

Then I knocked out a large red oak that was a full trim and needed two low branches roped off the service drop in a fraction of the time allotted because it was a easy climb with a central tie in point that I could shoot from the ground.

I am learning to decide whether to take the time to set multiple lines at the beginning or just set a quick one and advance my line as I go.

I recently did this really spread out ash that was bid for just under 3 hours (arrival to departure). Full trim, deadwood, several large busted branches over house, two long limbwalks over house with roping. Service drop on one side, phone/cable on the other. No landing zone other than neighbor's fence. One Green ground guy.
I did 2/3 of the tree off a SRT line then I came down and did the really messed up part off dDRT.

HO priority was busted branches and taking weight and drooping limbs away from house so I had to skimp on the crown.. It would have taken me ages to access the whole tree.

We were out of there in just under 5 hours.......... Had the ground guy roping for a third of the time and we had to clean up a godawful mess with not much of a way out of the yard.

The other climber would have done this tree on spikes and flipline.

My main way of climbing naked leads w/ dDRT is to advance the tail of my climb line as I go up then once I am up there I can rappel back toward my primary tie in. Or plan ahead and set the necessary lines. I don't know what I am missing with my spikeless technique but I would sure like to find out. The trees that slow me down are really spread out with nothing to climb on, yet not horizontal enough for much limbwalking. (Either big Ash trees or lion-tailed in the past.......)

Sorry for the cell phone pics, and sorry for the RANT.

I would appreciate any tips anyone has to offer, as I have been mentorless for 12.5 months and counting.

These pictures are of that Ash trim:


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## Iustinian (Nov 9, 2011)

*You're off to a great start...*



dieseldirt said:


> I have been working at a new job climbing for a guy who is a Bucket Op only and bids accordingly.
> 
> Only problem is I am not superman, and I care a lot about the quality of tree work I leave in my trail.
> 
> ...



That's awesome you're trimming the right way (w/o spikes); and right off the bat - it sounds like your guy is bidding kinda low to begin with, especially since you say he's bucket only.

What saddle you climbing on and how many ropes are u using?

If you're good with the throwball, on trees like that, set up a couple ropes in the tree before you ascend, its easier to do that from the ground. you can wear yourself out pretty fast trying to crawl up the back/under side of one of those and then slip once and start over lol. Technically, under ANSI your actually required to have more than one line hanging in the tree anyway, in case the need for an aerial rescue ever arises.

Another thing that's helped me get ALOT faster over the years, I made a couple extra long fliplines from a climbline that was cut. being able to flip off in the top of one lead and slide down 35 feet to another while still being tied in to my main tie-in spot can make things go a lot quicker. Only down side is the weight of the extra long tail, so sometimes I either coil it up or toss it all into the wingman bag clipped on under my mechanical ascender.

one other trick that might help you is the nylon runner straps -- they're cheap, and if you get a few of those, you can girth-hitch them onto the log/branch so you have a loop to grab or set your foot into and you can sort of make your own ladder where there's no branches to grab/step onto. Those things are also useful for girth-hitching onto big wood when you're trying to one hand toss it down -- kinda gives you a handle to control it with. 

I can post pics for ya later if u want.


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## troythetreeman (Nov 9, 2011)

is your boss happy with your work?
if your boss doesnt climb, hes not going to bid a climb accurately 100% of the time
so you both have a learning curve
do nice work
be safe
and if your running over the time he bid it for while doing what is expected, and doing it as efficiently as possible....
attend some climbing competitions, when you can watch other climbers work


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## medic2397 (Nov 10, 2011)

Had a similar situation recently, only difference was I was the boss. The climber to me is worth his weight in gold, if he is good, reliable and easy to get a long with. With that being said, your boss should involve you in some of those bids if he is unfamiliar with bidding trim jobs outside the bucket. I guess it all depends on your relationship with your boss. Mine worked well, so well that I actually enjoy climbing now! Good luck!


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## 802climber (Nov 12, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> That's awesome you're trimming the right way (w/o spikes); and right off the bat - it sounds like your guy is bidding kinda low to begin with, especially since you say he's bucket only.
> 
> What saddle you climbing on and how many ropes are u using?
> 
> ...




Well, I actually learned on spikes and spent a lot of time on spikes. For the last year I have made myself learn spikeless climbing and gain proficiency, though every time I think I'm getting good, I am reminded one way or another that I have a long long way to go.

I have picked up quite a bit of gear in the last year (but nothing too fancy) and I am finally getting to where it speeds me up rather than slows me down.
Just replaced my Cougar with a Masters Deluxe and I am climbing on Blue Streak and Velocity at the moment (with Beeline and Ice tail).

Lately I have started setting an SRT line and a DdRT line in the big ones if necessary and this helps me stay pretty mobile. Been really enjoying the rope wrench and foot ascender lately.

I am also getting patient enough to set adequate lines from the ground with the bigshot/throwball. Often at least one or two good climb lines for the more involved climbs and any rigging lines or whatever. It is sometimes hard to spend 30+ minutes setting lines on a harder tree with a stifling time constraint but man does it make the climb go faster and easier.

What you are describing with the really long fliplines, that's what I do with the tail of my rope. I keep a spare e2e on my tail and tie in DdRT with the tail of my climb line for balance, or to access/come back from way out on some lead somewhere ("Double-crotching"). Takes a minute to rig up but it's a lot safer. Oh yeah and I do use a lot of loop runners.. I can often be seen trying to get my boot back out of one.

That's what they're sayin about me lately. He's a little slow but he is safe and does a good job.

It's also hard to have perfect times when I only have me and one ground guy who I am supposed to train! And half the time I need him to rope for me so he gets behind on clean up. This is my first "foreman" position... I don't have the title but just the responsibility. I am used to a 3 man crew being the minimum for efficiency's sake. I shouldn't be coming out of a 4 hour trim and getting stuck at the job for another hour or so cleaning up.

I have taught the ground guy how to rope, how to run a saw and to TELL ME if he ever nicks a rope...... Electrical hazards....And what to say if he ever has to call 911.
Other than that.....the money's good and I've been earning every penny of it. Monday this guy is learning how to tie a bowline.

When I was whining about that big Ash trim I was still coming off a wrist injury (whacked it hard with a Silky Ibuki) and things have really been looking up since then. 

My problem is production is not the only thing going through my head. I don't want to be attached to any half-ass work, and I take the time to do what's written on the work order, talk with and satisfy the customer and create return customers, and referrals. 

If you've ever had a boss who gauges your quality by how fast he receives the customers payments and how few complaints he receives, rather than the actual tree work left behind and how many compliments he receives, then you know what I'm talking about.


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## Iustinian (Nov 12, 2011)

dieseldirt said:


> Well, I actually learned on spikes and spent a lot of time on spikes. For the last year I have made myself learn spikeless climbing and gain proficiency, though every time I think I'm getting good, I am reminded one way or another that I have a long long way to go.
> 
> I have picked up quite a bit of gear in the last year (but nothing too fancy) and I am finally getting to where it speeds me up rather than slows me down.
> Just replaced my Cougar with a Masters Deluxe and I am climbing on Blue Streak and Velocity at the moment (with Beeline and Ice tail).
> ...



I've been there!!!! Things will get better for you though; you're putting in your time, busting ass with very little acknowledgement, and if you keep treating customers like that -- word will get around. 

sooner or later -- you'll get another new 11m climb line and quit using that heavy blue-streak; also your next saddle should be one with a sliding rope bridge, glide lite, sequioa, treemotion, ergovation -- you will notice and love the difference although those masters are nice, I started with one.

If you're doing srt - check out the RADS system, its getting more and more popular.

Dont sweat 30mins setting a line -- I've seen great climbers have a bad day and spend half a morning throwing that bag lol. I always say -- I'll either get it on the first, second, third or 100th hahahahahaha. Never in between -- you know exactly what I mean.

it does work doing that with the tail of your rope (called the "M" system), but I have noticed that I'll burn up some time pulling the tail of my line over crotches doing that too though. That long flipline will still save you time over doing that when you have the chance to add it to your gear bag. dont forget a redirect sometimes too-- the strap and carabiner, and I use the red double pulley petzl has (for drt), prevents the line from crossing itself and locking off (only drawback with using a redirect is going back up there to retrieve it, but it has its advantage if you know you have to retrace your steps)

they may say you're slow and safe -- but they repsect you for it, and they're probably not complaining either -- plenty of fast guys have cost them money with accidents I bet.

I always HATED doing three man jobs with two guys -- but its going to happen, and the boss had to know it when he sent you out like that. Take it as a compliment and keep it up. Everything you said sounds familiar and those hard days are the ones that will make you wanna quit or turn you into a beast climber. With your attitude you sound like you won't be long getting there. Good luck, buddy.


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## treemandan (Nov 12, 2011)

Ash are tough to prune. And don't take advice from people who don't know. Like bucket queens and live tree spikers. Whatever they have to say should go through one ear and out the other. It is not going to do you one bit of good listening to anything they say. If you can get them to actually help without tripping all over the throwline then good but i doubt that very much. Just go along til you can't take it anymore or choose now to drop them.


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## 802climber (Nov 12, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> I've been there!!!! Things will get better for you though; you're putting in your time, busting ass with very little acknowledgement, and if you keep treating customers like that -- word will get around.
> 
> sooner or later -- you'll get another new 11m climb line and quit using that heavy blue-streak; also your next saddle should be one with a sliding rope bridge, glide lite, sequioa, treemotion, ergovation -- you will notice and love the difference although those masters are nice, I started with one.
> 
> ...





hey, thanks.

btw... i do run a bridge on my masters. something like this, with a ring or two on it, attached with some delta links. lots of attachment points.


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## 802climber (Nov 12, 2011)

treemandan said:


> Ash are tough to prune. And don't take advice from people who don't know. Like bucket queens and live tree spikers. Whatever they have to say should go through one ear and out the other. It is not going to do you one bit of good listening to anything they say. If you can get them to actually help without tripping all over the throwline then good but i doubt that very much. Just go along til you can't take it anymore or choose now to drop them.



yeah, ash are my least favorite to prune. other than huge honey locusts which have been previously liontailed...

or weed trees like box elders, silvers OR......

...i was in a very messed up ash the other evening i was supposed to be "fixing" but was unfixable... unless the HO really wanted stonehenge tree and future trimming bills.... it had been raining slush till lunch that day, so by that point i got up there and was up there cussing the piece of junk. little did i know the HO had heard at least a minute of it when he chimes in and says he would like an estimate on a removal.

so it worked out ok.


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## Iustinian (Nov 12, 2011)

dieseldirt said:


> yeah, ash are my least favorite to prune. other than huge honey locusts which have been previously liontailed...
> 
> or weed trees like box elders, silvers OR......
> 
> ...



I agree -- ash trees can be nasty -- lost of suckers to chase down, lots of deadwood, some of it hard to get to, and other climbers lion tail the heck out of them. 

I just finished a salvage trim that looked like a candlabra, but they were bound and determinted to keep it.

of note -- honeylocusts are one of those trees that can be very sensitive to overpruning, so I usually advise customers that we wont be getting too aggressive on removing each and every last sucker. Havent had a complaint on those yet.

fun fact that's won me a few drinks on more than one bet -- Box elders are actually maples: Acer negundo, ash-leafed maple. Michael Dirr's Manual of Woody Landscape Plants provided the proof winning my bet. nothing like a few drinks on the argumentative ground guy at the end of the day! lol

nice job on the sale hahahahaha.


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## 802climber (Nov 12, 2011)

Yeah they are Acers...the worst ones.. haha..

You can even tap them like Sugar Maples.

Yeah I tell customers that with Honey Locusts especially. I never strip off all the suckers/interior branches, got to leave the right ones or else they will grow like crazy!

I'd like to have some numbers on overpruning, to tell customers who want their honey locust, silver maple, red oak, etc stripped CLEAN...... no really you will regret this.


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## Iustinian (Nov 13, 2011)

dieseldirt said:


> Yeah they are Acers...the worst ones.. haha..
> 
> You can even tap them like Sugar Maples.
> 
> ...



a couple photographs will serve that purpose for you -- what can happen if you insist on this. We'll try to dig some up.


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## sgreanbeans (Nov 13, 2011)

treemandan said:


> Ash are tough to prune. And don't take advice from people who don't know. Like bucket queens and live tree spikers. Whatever they have to say should go through one ear and out the other. It is not going to do you one bit of good listening to anything they say. If you can get them to actually help without tripping all over the throwline then good but i doubt that very much. Just go along til you can't take it anymore or choose now to drop them.



I have dead wooded them and it looked like I raped it, HO thought I butchered it, until I showed him the material, all 10 billion dead little sticks.
Talkin bout messed up throw lines, bought a new zip it line, little round holder thing busted off in the bag, line slid out and rode around for a few days in the back of my truck, I dint know they guys stuck it back there, I seen it, pulled it out, nothing but spaghetti, wife thinks I should just throw it away and get a new one. I refuse! Its brand new, I will un-tangle it, if its the last thing I do!


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## the Aerialist (Nov 13, 2011)

*Pin Oak Trim ...*

Here's a video that shows why I wouldn't like working in a high production environment, especially if the guy quoting the job is used to being in a bucket, i.e. "_Bucket Queen_".

Seeing TreeEmergencyB whizz through trimming made me feel old and slow. Anyway without further ado (or mea culpa's) here is the Aerialist trimming a Pin Oak:

[video=youtube;jcErO_YVZFQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcErO_YVZFQ[/video]


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## Iustinian (Nov 13, 2011)

*Petzl Wallstep, Aider, Etrier*

Here's a pic of something that could help get up a long vertical limb that has no branches to use as "steps" when your climbline is set elsewhere. Just something to mess around with I guess lol. clip it into one of your runner straps and you have a quick "ladder" lol






Its called a Wallstep from Petzl -- they are also commonly known as aiders or etriers, Black Diamond has them, as does CMI. Rock climbers use them for free climbing -- and u could also incorporate it into a srt ascending system by clipping it into a Petzl Ascension handled ascender.


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## 802climber (Nov 15, 2011)

Thanks, but I think I found what I need to please this guy..........


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Nov 15, 2011)

*wide canopy*

Set several ropes from ground if possible. Or use two ropes to continue the swing thru canopy. Top tyin srt is very simple with two ropes. Swing\walk from one side to other. Spend more time doing work than setting ropes.


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## lostcoastland (Nov 16, 2011)

SPIKES!!:biggrin:


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## BC WetCoast (Nov 17, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Here's a video that shows why I wouldn't like working in a high production environment, especially if the guy quoting the job is used to being in a bucket, i.e. "_Bucket Queen_".
> 
> Seeing TreeEmergencyB whizz through trimming made me feel old and slow. Anyway without further ado (or mea culpa's) here is the Aerialist trimming a Pin Oak:
> 
> [video=youtube;jcErO_YVZFQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcErO_YVZFQ[/video]



That'll be a 2 day suspension for 1 handing. Second violation and instant termination.


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## the Aerialist (Nov 17, 2011)

*It's good to be your own Boss ...*



BC WetCoast said:


> That'll be a 2 day suspension for 1 handing. Second violation and instant termination.



I'm a tree surgeon (_mostly amputations_) and my tree saw is my scalpel. To limit myself to two handed operations would seem awkward and inefficient, especially for skimming off suckers.


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## tree MDS (Nov 17, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> I'm a tree surgeon (_mostly amputations_) and my tree saw is my scalpel. To limit myself to two handed operations would seem awkward and inefficient, especially for skimming off suckers.



An arboriculural embarrassment is what you are, douchebag.. just saying. I hear ya one the one handing though...

Time for workie, later.


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## the Aerialist (Nov 17, 2011)

*Let's have a get together ...*



tree MDS said:


> An arboriculural embarrassment is what you are, douchebag..



Somehow I doubt if you'd call me that to my face. You are a perfect example of what's wrong with this forum, and why I keep posting here. Just another spineless poster, very brave behind a keyboard, but in real life you'd foul your pants with one look from a real man with bad intent.

You belittle the men who work for you and then make them pay for a saw _you_ probably left in the fall zone. You are the douchebag MDS, and I'd say that right to your face as I took your pants off and threw them through the chipper.


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## David (saltas) (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm not an aborist aerial or other wise. But that is not how to prune a tree

I'm a horticulturist (diploma) with another diploma of conservation and land management.

At least I know what a branch collar is and how to find a node.


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## the Aerialist (Nov 17, 2011)

*OK professor, school me ...*



saltas said:


> I'm not an aborist aerial or other wise. But that is not how to prune a tree... At least I know what a branch collar is and how to find a node.



Skimming off suckers does not require finding a node. Note what I left on the only significant (_and mostly dead_) branch I cut off there. I usually make the cut to drop farther out then come back for a finish cut above the collar (_often using my Silky for a cleaner cut_) to allow proper healing.

Could you be more specific as to what you think I'm doing wrong there?


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## treeseer (Nov 17, 2011)

First off, thanks for posting the vid.  Anyone who does not post their work has no bizniss jumping on you re quality etc. Also we cannot see the whole tree or know owner objectives, so commentary is unqualified from the start. Foulmouthed uninformed commentary says a lot about the source.



the Aerialist said:


> Could you be more specific as to what you think I'm doing wrong there?



Well, since you asked, and given the above limitations, here goes:

About half the sprouts ("suckers" come from the ground) that you cut off may have been better off left on. Looks like you "skimmed" the entire inner third/half of the branches "clean", aka lion tailing.

Limbwalking to the ends can be useful to make some cuts, but it almost inevitably damages laterals that should stay. A pole saw can reach those cuts much easier and faster.

re onehanding, leave the chainsaw on the ground until you have made all the cuts you can (pole saw very ergonomic--up to 6" not hard on pin oak), then haul it up for the big cuts, which are typically low and interior.

o and diesel dirt, re doing 6 trims in 3 hours, get your boss to buy a wraptor. It will pay for itself quickly; do the math--if it saves you an hour a day that's ~$25/day so it's paid off in 100 days.


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## lxt (Nov 17, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Somehow I doubt if you'd call me that to my face. You are a perfect example of what's wrong with this forum, and why I keep posting here. Just another spineless poster, very brave behind a keyboard, but in real life you'd foul your pants with one look from a real man with bad intent.
> 
> You belittle the men who work for you and then make them pay for a saw _you_ probably left in the fall zone. You are the douchebag MDS, and I'd say that right to your face as I took your pants off and threw them through the chipper.




LMAO....I gotta say MDS, he did have a couple good ones in there: "foul your pants" & take your pants off & throw em through the chipper!! AA...you wouldnt have gone to Penn State would ya?

any way, Doug when you`re in those pin oaks with lots of horizontal limbs & _you have to get way out there_ try double crotching 1-2 limbs above you! higher if you can, it`ll help so you dont rub your manhood off on the limb...sugar bearing out there!



LXT................


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## Treepedo (Nov 17, 2011)

With a multi leader trees I will throw a line into the neighbouring tree or leader and send it down to my man and either anchor it to the ground and srt or have him pull/swing me over to the other lead.
Carry a big stick and what you can't reach from one place you will be able to get from another position.
Sharpen and invest in good pole saws.:msp_smile:


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## Iustinian (Nov 17, 2011)

Treepedo said:


> Sharpen and invest in good pole saws.:msp_smile:



Polesaws? what are those? hahahahahaha. Just climb out there!


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## tree MDS (Nov 17, 2011)

Del_Corbin said:


> I'd rather climb with a boat anchor!
> 
> 
> But I do always have a pole saw on site....usually in the truck.



The best is to just make someone else climb out there! Lol.


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## Iustinian (Nov 17, 2011)

Del_Corbin said:


> I'd rather climb with a boat anchor!
> 
> 
> But I do always have a pole saw on site....usually in the truck.



 :agree2:nice putting it in small text hahaha. Yea, they have their place, but they can create BAD habits (bad cuts since you're at a bad angle, PEELING, cutting off your steps so now you can't get out there) every "seasoned" climber knows this. We have had guys here we call "Polesaw Dan" or "Polesaw Chris" sawing a 10" log with a polesaw -- you guys been here awhile I know you've seen that!!!!:biggrin: Our polesaw is most commonly used for: snagging a throwline back down that was allowed to run slightly out of the tallest guys reach hahahahahaha


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## Treepedo (Nov 17, 2011)

Polesaw use adds leverage and can be single point positioning and hitting multiple pruning or removal targets. I use it like a bat and hammer out a lot of dead wood and weak sprouts with a good smack and then use the hook and to push and pull hangers to the ground.
Its the weapon of choice to beat down large pruning jobs from the ground so why not in the tree.
Sure it heavey and awkward at times and other times it can be the right tool for the task.

polesaw will go up and down out of the tree many times in a day, I hate dragging it around so it gets lowered down when major crown moves are needed and then pulled back up if needed.:msp_wink:


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## the Aerialist (Nov 17, 2011)

*Speak softly but carry a big stick ...*



Treepedo said:


> With a multi leader trees I will throw a line into the neighbouring tree or leader and send it down to my man and either anchor it to the ground and srt or have him pull/swing me over to the other lead.
> Carry a big stick and what you can't reach from one place you will be able to get from another position.
> Sharpen and invest in good pole saws.:msp_smile:



I've taken to climbing with two climbing lines; LockJack on the long one (200') and SpiderJack on the short one (150') this lets me set the lines for efficient TIPs for two sides of the tree. I'll unsnap from one and go to the other when I have to get around in the tree. At times I'll unsnap to route the overhead line around a limb to get to where I need to be. I did this today for a pruning of a large Maple.

I use a painter's extension pole (10 - 16') as a set pole and leather Cambium savers on my climbing lines. I find that the leather horseshoe makes a good "hook" to precisely place the line.

The video was taken last year while I still had my Cougar saddle. My techniques have improved in the past year and I've upgraded my gear as well, including a Silky extendable pole saw. Still it's good to get the constructive critiques and helpful hints. Thank you Thomas, and to the others offering serious advice.


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## the Aerialist (Nov 17, 2011)

*Whip it, Whip it good ...*



Treepedo said:


> Polesaw use adds leverage and can be single point positioning and hitting multiple pruning or removal targets. I use it like a bat and hammer out a lot of dead wood and weak sprouts with a good smack and then use the hook and to push and pull hangers to the ground.
> Its the weapon of choice to beat down large pruning jobs from the ground so why not in the tree.
> Sure it heavey and awkward at times and other times it can be the right tool for the task.
> 
> polesaw will go up and down out of the tree many times in a day, I hate dragging it around so it gets lowered down when major crown moves are needed and then pulled back up if needed.:msp_wink:



I use my set pole to push pull and beat out deadwood as well. My Silky is to heavy for me in most cases in the tree, but if I need it I will have it sent up. I'll even have my gas pole saw sent up if I feel it will work best. I did that today to nip off some branches over his house an power lines.

The Silky is best used from the ground. I can reach 20' up with it and it saves a lot of limb walking from the ground on the lower branches. I've even used it from the cab protector of my dump truck with the bed lifted. Poorman's bucket truck I'd say.


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## lostcoastland (Nov 17, 2011)

Treepedo said:


> polesaw will go up and down out of the tree many times in a day, I hate dragging it around so it gets lowered down when major crown moves are needed and then pulled back up if needed.:msp_wink:



Good groundguys like that are clutch, along with running the rope like a god. i make lanyards for my pole. hanging it works good...when your as far out as you can go its mandatory to have a pruner or saw..


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## Treepedo (Nov 17, 2011)

Nice!
Add a good orchard ladder and you can prune with a coffee in one hand and good cigar in the teeth with ease.
By far the best investment is the Stihl telescoping pwr pole saw. Life saver for sure :msp_smile:
How do you rate the spidey to the LJ. Bueno or mo bueno


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## Iustinian (Nov 17, 2011)

treeseer said:


> First off, thanks for posting the vid.  Anyone who does not post their work has no bizniss jumping on you re quality etc. Also we cannot see the whole tree or know owner objectives, so commentary is unqualified from the start. Foulmouthed uninformed commentary says a lot about the source.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I somewhat disagree. however, Great point about people posting vids and smack talking though. seriously. :msp_thumbup:

Taking water sprouts isnt necessarily bad -- especially in the exterior of a pin oak, they are likely to get shaded out and turn into deadwood anyway, it will take the tree longer to abort those things and heal than if they are properly cut. Also, if all of them are allowed to grow in, you will have less air circulation thru the crown of the tree, and a greater likelihood of rubbing branches/canker etc. Also helps to keep from adding unnecessary weight on heavy limbs. I'm not saying remove them all, but some definitely, depending on the age and species of the tree.

and to me - liontailing is taking all the lowest limbs, and scalping everything thats left so that theres only leaves on the top 1/4 of the whole tree, NOT taking all the sprouts from the interior 1/3. Like making an oak shaped like a palm tree is liontailing. 

A polesaw? hahaha. Riiiiiiiiiiight. Slower. way slower, and for most people (and I'm not saying you) -- bad cuts. You're seriously going to work a whole tree with a polesaw?

Damaging laterals by limbwalking is not inevitable -- unless you're like 500 lbs and wearing chainsaw shoes. My climbing shoes aren't going to cause any damage that decades of changing seasons, rain, snow & ice, wind etc cant. Reaction wood maybe?

I do like what you said about not using the chainsaw except when its needed.

Overall -- Doug, good video, it certainly doesn't look like you did a bad job, and I'm guessing your customer was happy. Cant say the ladder impresses me, or stradling the branch either. You're not the fastest, but it looks like you take care and pride in your work. Limb-walking and no polesaw? you get a few cool points for that. that 200T sounded muffler modded too :msp_thumbsup:

what saddle are you climbing on now?


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## the Aerialist (Nov 17, 2011)

*Lo mismo ... De nada ...*



Treepedo said:


> Nice!
> Add a good orchard ladder and you can prune with a coffee in one hand and good cigar in the teeth with ease.
> By far the best investment is the Stihl telescoping pwr pole saw. Life saver for sure :msp_smile:
> How do you rate the spidey to the LJ. Bueno or mo bueno



I digg the tripod ladder and will be getting one of those. I used the telescoping Stihl pole saw and found it far to heavy in the tree. I've bought a couple "combo" saws and with the carbon fiber extender it goes as far as the adjustable but is much lighter in weight.

Both the LockJack and the SpiderJack are great climbing aids. The SpiderJack is a bit more sensitive to slack, if you unload it it can slip a bit before it locks up again. Also the lever on the SpiderJack can get bumped by a branch and release so you have to be wary. Slack in it while climbing around a limb today gave me a short fall to my ART Positioner when I got off balance.

Having said all that about the SpiderJack, it's all the same to me, they both work great and are real time savers. You have to be more vigilant in the Spider, but it rewards you with great freedom of movement, as does the LockJack.


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## the Aerialist (Nov 17, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> ... I do like what you said about not using the chainsaw except when its needed.
> 
> Overall -- Doug, good video, it certainly doesn't look like you did a bad job, and I'm guessing your customer was happy. Cant say the ladder impresses me, or stradling the branch either. You're not the fastest, but it looks like you take care and pride in your work. Limb-walking and no polesaw? you get a few cool points for that. that 200T sounded muffler modded too :msp_thumbsup:
> 
> what saddle are you climbing on now?



The customer was very satisfied with the result. Gave me straight "A's" in the A-List rating system and a nice write up to go with it.

My foot locking days are over, as is much speed in the tree. The injuries I sustained in my motorcycle wreck two years ago (_crushed chest and broken shoulders_) make climbing painful, so these days the ladder is how I get to the office. Maybe I'll take Rope's suggestion and get a Wraptor, until then I struggle with a Kong double-handled ascender and CMI Pantin when I need to go up a rope.

I've got a Buckingham Master Classic that I modified a bit, adding a quick release on the belt strap and a floating bridge as a second tie in, but I don't use that much, it's there if I need it though. I also have the fall protection top harness for it and sometimes wear it, mostly to keep my saw from pulling the harness down.


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## lxt (Nov 18, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> I somewhat disagree. however, Great point about people posting vids and smack talking though. seriously. :msp_thumbup:




Yeah, Now if only he would post a Vid/Pictures of him doing work showing how he adheres to the long posts of advice he gives out on here!!! I would like to see him in a tree where he uses all that knowledge he professes.




LXT..............


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## Toddppm (Nov 18, 2011)

lxt said:


> Yeah, Now if only he would post a Vid/Pictures of him doing work showing how he adheres to the long posts of advice he gives out on here!!! I would like to see him in a tree where he uses all that knowledge he professes. LXT..............



####, that he adheres too? I'd like to see him post anything that shows he has any capability to do what he quacks about on here. Fool hasn't shown a video being more than arms length from the trunk of any tree yet. All these nice toys and couldn't walk a limb if a bear was coming up the tree.
and NO, that crotch crawling doesn't count


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## the Aerialist (Nov 18, 2011)

*I'll go out on a limb if I need too ...*



Toddppm said:


> ####, that he adheres too? I'd like to see him post anything that shows he has any capability to do what he quacks about on here. Fool hasn't shown a video being more than arms length from the trunk of any tree yet. All these nice toys and couldn't walk a limb if a bear was coming up the tree.
> and NO, that crotch crawling doesn't count



From July of 2009 near Raccoon State Park: 












Now where are your photos / videos?


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## Mike Cantolina (Nov 18, 2011)

8-10 feet from the trunk is hardly a limb walk.


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## the Aerialist (Nov 18, 2011)

*Come out and play the doug ...*



lxt said:


> Yeah, Now if only he would post a Vid/Pictures of him doing work showing how he adheres to the long posts of advice he gives out on here!!! I would like to see him in a tree where he uses all that knowledge he professes ...








Well Doug what are you doing tomorrow? I'll pay you $200 to climb a tree next to me and we'll shot video of both of us. I'd like to see if you could teach me anything.

the Aerialist


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## Zale (Nov 18, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> From July of 2009 near Raccoon State Park:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Aerial Mason- If you set your climbing line higher, you will be able to walk out to the end and tie off your lowering line. Also, setting a block in the tree will help reduce damage to the limb the lowering line is running over.


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## the Aerialist (Nov 18, 2011)

*So what have you done lately?*



Mike Cantolina said:


> 8-10 feet from the trunk is hardly a limb walk.



Posting on a forum without showing your own work is just throwing shells from the peanut gallery. Man up losers, at least mine are here for all to see.

Here's a tree we get to bomb most of it down. The final drop was tricky though. A lot of lean. All in a day's work for those that actually do work in trees.

[video=youtube;MmM98L_hQm0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmM98L_hQm0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/video]


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## Mike Cantolina (Nov 18, 2011)

I refuse to teach you. I guess it was worth a try for you though.


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## the Aerialist (Nov 18, 2011)

*It was a takedown ...*



Zale said:


> Aerial Mason- If you set your climbing line higher, you will be able to walk out to the end and tie off your lowering line. Also, setting a block in the tree will help reduce damage to the limb the lowering line is running over.



Using the set pole seemed a good alternative to get a lowering line on that branch. I was clearing the lower limbs and my TIP was set fine for that. There are many different approaches and each tree is uniquely different. In the end you have to be there to make the decisions on how best to handle what is before you. Seeing photos or even watching movies don't give you the whole picture.

I don't claim to be the best climber here or anywhere but I do the work without damage or injuries so what's not to like? I'm not copping a plea, but I'm a busted up old man. You should be so lucky to climb and work as I do when you get to be my age (64.5 years)


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## the Aerialist (Nov 18, 2011)

*You got nothing then?*



Mike Cantolina said:


> I refuse to teach you. I guess it was worth a try for you though.



You're just a wimp afraid to post your work. The only thing we'd all learn if you did is what a fake you really are.


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## Zale (Nov 18, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Posting on a forum without showing your own work is just throwing shells from the peanut gallery. Man up losers, at least mine are here for all to see.
> 
> Here's a tree we get to bomb most of it down. The final drop was tricky though. A lot of lean. All in a day's work for those that actually do work in trees.
> 
> [video=youtube;MmM98L_hQm0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmM98L_hQm0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/video]




Aerial Mason- that is classic. A car jack? You sir are a walking dooms day machine. I will keep you in my prayers.


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## Mike Cantolina (Nov 18, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> You're just a wimp afraid to post your work.



Yep, that's me!



the Aerialist said:


> The only thing we'd all learn if you did is what a fake you really are.



LOL, you've already done that.


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## lxt (Nov 19, 2011)

AA, I would more than gladly come out & help/teach you! two things though #1 I have not been cleared by the Doc for intensive climbing, I do what I can & am building up to it......#2 $200 for the day, um....have to pass on that, I made $300.00 just helping out a buddy in bloomfield Friday & all I did was show up with the 5 ton dump & let his crew load it up with some bricks from when they cut out 2 openings for doors!

What you have to understand is not every one goes out to work with a camera/video device to film themselves, I have taken still photos just to show the Tow behinds in action & where they can be put, If I wanted to I could take pics/vids but honestly find it a distraction........Im out there to work!! not worried about filming my self.......however some on here have given advice, write articles & think they are the tree law..........those are the ones who should put up something worth a dam!!

Why you are calling out Mike is a little wierd, he is one I would consider the real deal!!!! you were doing good posting, Now you seem to have slipped back to your old posting ways? Not to be ignorant to you........but you, your crew & those that help you are not well known to many in the tree community, Matt is a rising star & treemergency.....I might know or have a mutual friend in the trade that knows us both.

I have done my time in the saddle & have made my mark, I have furthered my education to a point where I am more on the IT side of tree work, DRG, Dupont, First Energy, Duquesne Light.......Parks service Consulting & many other vegetation Management positions................here is where the future & Money is IMO, however.........you have to of been top tier in your trade, educate yourself, have out of state commendations (not A-List), be recommended by your peers (former CEO of DQE) & so on.... When you get to this point let me know....... & we can talk! till then Take Care & Be Safe




LXT................


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## lxt (Nov 19, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> Posting on a forum without showing your own work is just throwing shells from the peanut gallery. Man up losers, at least mine are here for all to see.
> 
> Here's a tree we get to bomb most of it down. The final drop was tricky though. A lot of lean. All in a day's work for those that actually do work in trees.
> 
> [video=youtube;MmM98L_hQm0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmM98L_hQm0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/video]





AA, REALLY???? Ya cant let your man climb & get set..............you`re cutting while the man is ascending the tree!!!! If you did that to me........Id cut the whole dam lead off you were in! thats just sillyness & dangerous as hell, BTW, I see on craigslist while I was searching for a part for my reloader that there is another premier tree service in Pittsburgh............just call Butch it says!

God I love some of those ads...............when I read the heading that said "Premier" I thought of you AA...



LXT.............


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## the Aerialist (Nov 19, 2011)

*That was me ascending ...*



lxt said:


> AA, REALLY???? Ya cant let your man climb & get set..............you`re cutting while the man is ascending the tree!!!! If you did that to me........Id cut the whole dam lead off you were in!...



Err ~ that was JohnBoy up first. I was OK with that though, he was just free dropping limbs while I went up to rope some over the fence. We really were not that close together, nothing he was cutting could have reached me.


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## the Aerialist (Nov 19, 2011)

*I'll pay $300 if you show up with a 5 ton dump ...*



lxt said:


> AA, I would more than gladly come out & help/teach you! two things though #1 I have not been cleared by the Doc for intensive climbing, I do what I can & am building up to it......#2 $200 for the day, um....have to pass on that, I made $300.00 just helping out a buddy in bloomfield Friday & all I did was show up with the 5 ton dump & let his crew load it up with some bricks from when they cut out 2 openings for doors!
> 
> What you have to understand is not every one goes out to work with a camera/video device to film themselves, I have taken still photos just to show the Tow behinds in action & where they can be put, If I wanted to I could take pics/vids but honestly find it a distraction........Im out there to work!! not worried about filming my self.......however some on here have given advice, write articles & think they are the tree law..........those are the ones who should put up something worth a dam!!
> 
> ...



As far as "calling Mike out" he started the feces fest. By now all here should know that I will reply in kind if I am attacked. If Mike wants a piece of me all he needs to do is take a bite. I'm always happy to bite back when attacked. I'm really a sweet old man by most accounts of people who have met me. I return respect to all who respect me. You don't have to like me, but a bit of common human decency would make things go a lot smoother here.

Matt and Ben have actually met me and worked for me. In Matt's case he really helped me out with those stumps and Ben did really well trimming some trees in wires for me. I'd like to be able to offer a climber full time work, but right now I can't. Next Season I'll consider it if my business keeps up the trajectory it has attained the past couple of years.

Today we took down three more dead Locusts. One hairy moment as I reached over and cut the top out of one from another, more solid one. Branches deflected it and it landed pretty close to the house. After that it was a simple drop. Still entirely to much dead wood today. I'm glad to be home.

the Aerialist


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 19, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> As far as "calling Mike out" he started the feces fest. By now all here should know that I will reply in kind if I am attacked. If Mike wants a piece of me all he needs to do is take a bite. I'm always happy to bite back when attacked. I'm really a sweet old man by most accounts of people who have met me. I return respect to all who respect me. You don't have to like me, but a bit of common human decency would make things go a lot smoother here.




Good thing for you I'm bored, AA, as I've been trying to refrain from commenting on your inane ####pile of so-called work for a bit but I got nothin' better to do tonight. lol Mike IS the real deal, and if you actually used this site for what you claim you want it for you would know that. If you really wanted to learn the trade and better yourself and actually spent some time researching and pulling out the little gems of knowledge this site has to offer you would surely have stumbled across one of Mike's videos by now. Unfortunately, for you, you're a blowhard douchenozzle that has no interest in our trade other than making a quick buck before your old ass keels over and dies. Look him up, follow his posts, see how reasonable and postured he is when discussing any arboricultural practice with ANY worthy climber and you might learn a thing or two. Either that or keep on waddling about, filling trees with concrete, spiking up your pruners, and generally looking like the biggest ass to ever walk into the world of tree care. Up to you, either do the research and better yourself or continue to be belittled by the professionals on this site.


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## Mike Cantolina (Nov 19, 2011)

Thanks Chris.

I've been online since 1995 and been reading tree forums since the old ISA site. I didn't know much back then (thought I did) but it was much more than AA does now. I've been running a chainsaw since I was 11 and climbing since 1990. However, I can never repay what I've learned from some of the members here and elsewhere.


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 19, 2011)

the Aerialist said:


> You're just a wimp afraid to post your work. The only thing we'd all learn if you did is what a fake you really are.



Your such a dumb ####ing donkey doug , he had a crane job on here and plenty of pics but you , I mean your a hot mess , you hire retoids , and all pile in the van in the morning to go and take complete advantage of your unknowing uneducated customers , you've admitted that you have no problem ripping people off and basically you've been made yourself your own worst enemy with your lies complete disreguard for any kind of knowledge period .. You think that you hanging around bothers us , watching your dumb ass videos just make me laugh period they are a direct extention of you..... a complete joke .....


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## FanOFatherNash (Aug 25, 2012)

When they ask how long before you are done?

I tell them I ll let you know 15 mins before I am done.


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## Customcuts (Aug 26, 2012)

*Wow!*



the Aerialist said:


> Here's a video that shows why I wouldn't like working in a high production environment, especially if the guy quoting the job is used to being in a bucket, i.e. "_Bucket Queen_".
> 
> Seeing TreeEmergencyB whizz through trimming made me feel old and slow. Anyway without further ado (or mea culpa's) here is the Aerialist trimming a Pin Oak:
> 
> ...


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## Customcuts (Aug 26, 2012)

the Aerialist said:


> I'm a tree surgeon (_mostly amputations_) and my tree saw is my scalpel. To limit myself to two handed operations would seem awkward and inefficient, especially for skimming off suckers.




So your the one who leaves the limbs all scarred up from using ur 200 to strip the foliage (lionstail) the limbs...smh you really should watch your own videos and see how foolish you look... Just sayin!


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 26, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> So your the one who leaves the limbs all scarred up from using ur 200 to strip the foliage (lionstail) the limbs...smh you really should watch your own videos and see how foolish you look... Just sayin!



Your words are falling on deaf ears he got banned, I wish he was still here . :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Customcuts (Aug 26, 2012)

treeclimber101 said:


> Your words are falling on deaf ears he got banned, I wish he was still here . :hmm3grin2orange:



Ok, I guess ill take to commenting on his YouTube...lol... Seriously tho, I know I'm not the best myself and I don't know everything but I do watch my own videos over and over to see what I could have done better and it truly has helped me to do things a little different than I have done in the past... This site has taught me a whole bunch and I'm greatfull for that.. but something about this Aerial Idiot just makes me wonder how he is still alive and doing the crap he does. When there is plenty of greats on here to learn from... I guess you have to be humbled and have an open mind to learn and apparently he already knows everything... BAHAHAHAHA


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 26, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> Ok, I guess ill take to commenting on his YouTube...lol... Seriously tho, I know I'm not the best myself and I don't know everything but I do watch my own videos over and over to see what I could have done better and it truly has helped me to do things a little different than I have done in the past... This site has taught me a whole bunch and I'm greatfull for that.. but something about this Aerial Idiot just makes me wonder how he is still alive and doing the crap he does. When there is plenty of greats on here to learn from... I guess you have to be humbled and have an open mind to learn and apparently he already knows everything... BAHAHAHAHA



I like your dog in that avatar ? hes a pretty bad ass looking critter , I got a frenchbullpit , she looks a bit insane aswell but isnt much more then a big bark


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