# when does Axe Men air



## logger121 (Feb 22, 2008)

hey guys im tryin to find out when the exact day the history channle's new seris Axe Men airs


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## Grace Tree (Feb 22, 2008)

I think it's March 9


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## windthrown (Feb 22, 2008)

*AxMen, The History Channel, Sunday, March 9, 10pm ET/PT.*

AxMen, The History Channel, Sunday, March 9, 10pm ET/PT. 

web site (again): 

http://www.history.com/minisites/axmen


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## Husky137 (Feb 22, 2008)

When will the next thread about Axmen air? :hmm3grin2orange:


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## mysawmyrules (Feb 22, 2008)

I must live too far in the sticks because this is the first I've heard of this guess I better read more threads. Looks entertaining.


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## windthrown (Feb 22, 2008)

Husky137 said:


> When will the next thread about Axmen air? :hmm3grin2orange:



And on which tree forum will it be posted????


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## windthrown (Feb 22, 2008)

mysawmyrules said:


> I must live too far in the sticks because this is the first I've heard of this guess I better read more threads. Looks entertaining.



Its OK. More threads are better than less... and they have changed the name of the show around, and the times and dates around becasue of the writer's strike in LA. 

Reality TV rules this year! And is a big reason I am online so much now.


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## wood4heat (Feb 22, 2008)

Husky137 said:


> When will the next thread about Axmen air? :hmm3grin2orange:



We should start a pool, what do you say to 5 bucks a head? I'll take 5:00pm - 10:00pm pacific time tonight. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## windthrown (Feb 22, 2008)

wood4heat said:


> We should start a pool, what do you say to 5 bucks a head? I'll take 5:00pm - 10:00pm pacific time tonight. :hmm3grin2orange:



Wait until the show airs... then it will be three new threads per hour I bet!


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## Husky137 (Feb 22, 2008)

There will be a pop quiz later tonight.:jawdrop:


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## turnkey4099 (Feb 23, 2008)

Husky137 said:


> There will be a pop quiz later tonight.:jawdrop:



Lets me out. I don't know anything about pop. Now if you made that a beer quiz...

Harry K


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## Husky137 (Feb 23, 2008)

LOL, it should have been a beer quiz, unfortunately I passed out first.


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## slowp (Feb 24, 2008)

Well, if it was filmed up here, it might have to be Axe Persons because Caroline and Debbie drive log trucks and sometimes haul out of here. I think Debbie had pink driving gloves. If I see her, I'll have to find out where she gets them.


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## michigander (Mar 2, 2008)

I was thinking the show was starting tonight, but next Sunday. Is this going to be a weekly show? Hope so!


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## 2dogs (Mar 2, 2008)

I watched the premier issue tonight on Comcast.


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## Gologit (Mar 2, 2008)

2dogs said:


> I watched the premier issue tonight on Comcast.



What do you think of it?


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## goldtrak (Mar 2, 2008)

*AxMen on the History Channel*

 I live in northern California and have been waiting with great anticipation for this new series to begin. I watched AxMen today on our local cable company's ComCast on-demand, History channel pre-premiere with my wife and our 3 sons. Now were hooked! 4 different logging companies were profiled. Can't wait for the next episode.


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## 2dogs (Mar 2, 2008)

Gologit said:


> What do you think of it?




This first show was more about explaining how the series is going to air and introduced some crew members. It was very dramatic but not over the top. The companies seem to quite different, some I would guess are more succesful than others. The scenery is beautiful and the camera work is very good. All in all I liked the show.


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## Darin (Mar 2, 2008)

It wasn't on on demand when I looked. I did do a google search and it said that the other 12 episodes would air (On Demand) the Monday after the premier.


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## goldtrak (Mar 2, 2008)

Well you must not have the right cable company where you live. If you are lucky enough to live in Northern California like me, you would chose ComCast, ON DEMAND, News & World, History Channel, Ax Men or Ax Men HD. It was listed as the exclusive world premiere ON DEMAND. Guess your out of luck.


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## windthrown (Mar 3, 2008)

Cable??? Yesh. 

I have a satellite dish. 21st centruy stuff. Its on the History Channel starting next Sunday on satellite. No demand required.


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## Gologit (Mar 3, 2008)

goldtrak said:


> Well you must not have the right cable company where you live. If you are lucky enough to live in Northern California like me, you would chose ComCast, ON DEMAND, News & World, History Channel, Ax Men or Ax Men HD. It was listed as the exclusive world premiere ON DEMAND. Guess your out of luck.



Some of us in NorCal live too far out in the sticks for cable. But that's okay...I can wait 'til next Sunday along with all those other people who aren't "lucky" like you are.


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## slowp (Mar 3, 2008)

From seeing the commercials, I still wonder how they happened to have a camera just right when the line snapped. We were out having dinner and decided it was getting time to clean out a trail. None of the guys want to volunteer. We were talking about waiting for some hikers to come along, revving the saw up, and yell RUN OR DIE, GIRLS since that's what they do in the commercial and wait for the hiker's reaction. Maybe the show will give us new ideas for entertainment during down times. We lack entertainment at times in rural areas so must make up our own.


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## Darin (Mar 3, 2008)

Found it. Thanks. I'll watch it tonight after work.


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## Mindy Hughes (Mar 5, 2008)

*Ax Men on Jimmy Kimmel Live*

Hello everyone,

Friday March 7th at 12:05 am on ABC. Melvin Lardy, Jay Browning, Darrel Gustafson and Dwayne Dethless will be on Jimmy Kimmel Live. They are all down in LA right now having dinner together.

Mindy
www.stumpbranchlogging.com


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## windthrown (Mar 5, 2008)

From gyppo loggers to fame and fortune???

My my... in LA having dinner with the big guys, eh?


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## Husky137 (Mar 5, 2008)

Is it on yet??:hmm3grin2orange:


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## turnkey4099 (Mar 6, 2008)

Husky137 said:


> Is it on yet??:hmm3grin2orange:



Is what on yet?  

Harry K


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## SWE#Kipp (Mar 6, 2008)

I got History channel on satellite wonder if they will show it here in Sweden though ,,,,


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## slowp (Mar 6, 2008)

Will rigging clothes become fashionable in the cities? I better dig out the pastel hickory shirt and buy a few others and set up on a street corner. For a few dollars extra, I could throw some grease and diesel on the clothes. Perhaps manufacture a cologne.


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## Gologit (Mar 6, 2008)

slowp said:


> Will rigging clothes become fashionable in the cities? I better dig out the pastel hickory shirt and buy a few others and set up on a street corner. For a few dollars extra, I could throw some grease and diesel on the clothes. Perhaps manufacture a cologne.




Cologne? Maybe blend in a little scent of snoose, a whiff of saw mix,some scrapings from the underarms of a hickory shirt worn all week in warm weather, the distillation of a pair of cotton blend sox worn equally as long, a touch of exhaust from a D-6, a tiny bit of hydraulic oil, some wood smoke from the warming fire, a dash of cigarette smoke, a soupcon of hot brake smell from the trucks, and just the smallest bit of stale coffee from the bottom of the thermos at 3 in the afternoon.
Mix liberally with the scent of fresh cut wood, saw chips, Doug fir pitch,and for the extra added touch wring out a pair of gloves that have been through three rain storms, four oil changes, and two days of dust in the back of the crummy. Apply sparingly.
Very sparingly.


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## 2dogs (Mar 6, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Cologne? Maybe blend in a little scent of snoose, a whiff of saw mix,some scrapings from the underarms of a hickory shirt worn all week in warm weather, the distillation of a pair of cotton blend sox worn equally as long, a touch of exhaust from a D-6, a tiny bit of hydraulic oil, some wood smoke from the warming fire, a dash of cigarette smoke, a soupcon of hot brake smell from the trucks, and just the smallest bit of stale coffee from the bottom of the thermos at 3 in the afternoon.
> Mix liberally with the scent of fresh cut wood, saw chips, Doug fir pitch,and for the extra added touch wring out a pair of gloves that have been through three rain storms, four oil changes, and two days of dust in the back of the crummy. Apply sparingly.
> Very sparingly.



I am probably going to regret asking this Bob but...what is your version of "Bob's Secret". Ya know, party clothes for the distaff side. Like maybe a cut pair of Prison Blues with suspenders? Enquiring minds want to know.


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## Zodiac45 (Mar 6, 2008)

LOL yepo!  It's a bit like how the Carhartt line has become a fashion statement for city folks. Before LL Bean turned into yuppie clothes they were the outfitter of choice years ago. Up in the North Woods the old joke was the wife sewing the logger into a union suit in the fall and cutting off it off in spring


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## Gologit (Mar 6, 2008)

2dogs said:


> I am probably going to regret asking this Bob but...what is your version of "Bob's Secret". Ya know, party clothes for the distaff side. Like maybe a cut pair of Prison Blues with suspenders? Enquiring minds want to know.



LOL. Nope, sorry, all I'm contributing to this is my magic Authentic PNW Logger Cologne formula...and even that isn't set in stone. Additional ingredients are welcome and encouraged.

Besides, after twenty five years of marriage I've come to the conclusion that I'm in no way shape or form qualified to comment on women's clothing. Like most valuable lessons in life I learned that the hard way...and a little at a time.

Maybe Slowp or Mountaingal or Chainsawchic, or Witchy can add to your clothing idea. I'm going to give it a good leaving alone. 

You might think that this shows a certain cowardice on my part. You'd be right.  Bob


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## Gologit (Mar 6, 2008)

Zodiac45 said:


> LOL Up in the North Woods the old joke was the wife sewing the logger into a union suit in the fall and cutting off it off in spring



Yup...Theres a lot of old sayings like that out here, too. If you like that kind of stuff look for a book called "Lies, Logs, and Loggers" by Finley Hayes.

I don't know where you'd find a copy. It was published years ago by the same people that put out Logger's World. Finley Hayes is an old time logger that knows how to tell a hell of a good story.

It has one of the best collections of old time logger yarns and language that I've ever run across.

Tell you what. We've had a traveling movie club on here for Never Give an Inch and it worked out pretty good. How about I mail you the book and when you're done with it, post in the logging thread and send it on to whoever wants it next. They can pass it on etc. etc.

The only thing I ask is that the book be well taken care of and returned to me when everybody is done with it. PM me if you're interested. Bob.


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## slowp (Mar 6, 2008)

2dogs said:


> I am probably going to regret asking this Bob but...what is your version of "Bob's Secret". Ya know, party clothes for the distaff side. Like maybe a cut pair of Prison Blues with suspenders? Enquiring minds want to know.



Well, uh, the cutter who ran up to the road ripping his clothes off had pinkish boxers on which he started to rip off but then realized where he was. They didn't look too good with his calks. It was bee madness that caused it. I'd suggest a shiny pair of white calks to go with the pinkish or salmon colored boxers. Or pinkish oops I mean salmon colored boots.:blush:


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## 2dogs (Mar 6, 2008)

I wonder what White's Boots would think if someone ordered chalks in white?


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## 2dogs (Mar 6, 2008)

Gologit said:


> LOL. Nope, sorry, all I'm contributing to this is my magic Authentic PNW Logger Cologne formula...and even that isn't set in stone. Additional ingredients are welcome and encouraged.
> 
> Besides, after twenty five years of marriage I've come to the conclusion that I'm in no way shape or form qualified to comment on women's clothing. Like most valuable lessons in life I learned that the hard way...and a little at a time.
> 
> ...



I just turned 55 and I have been married 17 years. It took 37 years to find a woman, uhmm, silly enough to marry me. I found a goodum too.


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## forestryworks (Mar 7, 2008)

Mindy Hughes said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Friday March 7th at 12:05 am on ABC. Melvin Lardy, Jay Browning, Darrel Gustafson and Dwayne Dethless will be on Jimmy Kimmel Live. They are all down in LA right now having dinner together.
> 
> ...



anyone catch it last night/this morning?

i fell asleep about 3hours before it came on

maybe it will show up on youtube?

thanks for the updates Mindy


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## wood4heat (Mar 7, 2008)

My wife just sent me an e-mail about this show, I guess she's worked with Jay Browning and is all excited about seeing it now.


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## goatchin (Mar 7, 2008)

I just saw the commercial...again...this time i noticed at the end of the commercial the older lookin fella w/ half a hand say "It's only a hand." gotta love it, you PNW guess sure got some cahones LOL

cant wait for it to come on....got it locked in on DVR in case im not around LOL


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## slowp (Mar 7, 2008)

forestryworks said:


> anyone catch it last night/this morning?
> 
> i fell asleep about 3hours before it came on
> 
> ...



I'm home for day 3 of massive mucous loss. Just opened up box number 3 of Puffs. So, since I am stuck here, I was able to watch the Live show a short time ago, obviously not live. Had to suffer through a million commercials and a long interview with (is this not ironic?) Woody Harrelson who I can't stand.
The loggers got about 5 minutes. Jay Browning ( I think) told how he lost part of his hand and I about lost my lunch. He tripped near a moving block and got his hand sucked through. Ick. Then they did a cute skit with some guy named Guillermo, showing clips from the show interspersed with Guillermo eating pancakes and getting a splinter in his hand. It ended with Guillermo in a backyard supposedly dumping a bush in a swimming pool and then they all got chased out by the homeowner. That was it. Now I'm going to dose myself with Benadryl. Good Night.


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## IcePick (Mar 8, 2008)

*Hayes*

Gologit, that book sounds right up my alley, I would love to read it. Also, you are a good writer yourself, that bit about your cologne made me for a second think I was working and not sitting at a computer.


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## joe wood (Mar 8, 2008)

[why would tou film a show about logging in oregon? washingtons where the real loggers are. only good thing to ever come out of oregon was I-5. only kidding cant wait to see if theres any north bending or better yet a good old south bend downhill show.


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## slowp (Mar 8, 2008)

joe wood said:


> [why would tou film a show about logging in oregon? washingtons where the real loggers are. only good thing to ever come out of oregon was I-5. only kidding cant wait to see if theres any north bending or better yet a good old south bend downhill show.



Oregon loggers are cheaper than Warshington loggers. This was told to me *OVER AND OVER *by a displaced to here Oregon logger who had to hire crew here. :deadhorse: Perhaps the Warshington loggers wanted to be paid?
Apparently Oregon loggers are not only cheaper, but also walk on water. They LEVITATE the logs up to the landing...according to the Oregon logger. However, I told him what happened after we rigged up an intermediate support in the no longer offered quickie (10 week) logging course at Oregon State. He named it the OSU intermediate support rigging method...Rig up a support, yard 4 turns over it, pull it over and go home. He requested that I not teach it to his crew. :greenchainsaw:


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## windthrown (Mar 8, 2008)

*The truth about Oregon logging...*

Yes, Oregon logging is far different than anywhere else. Why, all I have to do is open a 6-pack of beer. The MS361 is the Jesus of chainsaws. It does all the felling, limbing and bucking by itself. Then the bucked logs all levitate by themselves, as you say, and self yard themselves onto the log landings. When they are there, I measure and mark them, (sipping my beer, of course) and then they load themselves remotely onto the waiting trucks that roll on by, not even having to stop. 

But that's not all! Once the trees are cut, the slash levitates to the burn piles all by itself. We can either burn it, or use the remote Bandit auto-chipper that makes them into hog fuel. Again, it all does it by itself! And then? Why, then the stumps dissappear all by themselves. The gournd swallow them all up! And then? The same Oregon ground opens up and sub-soils itself. Its amazing. Nice random patterns too. And then? The cones from last year all pop open and the trees replant themselves! Right there! All by themselves! Oh, and then? Why, in Oregon, wherever a tree sprouts, there is a nice 2 foot radius of released area that nothing grows in! No weeds or grass or anything! No need to spray them either. And the trees are fertilized all by themselves, as the deer go by they poop on each and every one of them, without browsing on them. Yessiree bob... nothing like logging in Oregon. A Gyppo lone logger like myself can do it all by himself. No crews, cable yarding equipment, skidders, loaders, or anything else. Oh, and there are logging roads already here (its true, this property has tons of skid roads already graded here from previous logging done over the past 100 years or so). 

And that's all there is to it folks! Oregon logging is easy stuff. All you have to do is supply the beer. And an MS361. And buy some land here. Other than that, its just pay the 6% taxes and find a mill to buy your logs. Yessir, I am on my 3rd 6-pack today! :spam:


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## 2dogs (Mar 8, 2008)

windthrown said:


> Yes, Oregon logging is far different than anywhere else. Why, all I have to do is open a 6-pack of beer. The MS361 is the Jesus of chainsaws. It does all the felling, limbing and bucking by itself. Then the bucked logs all levitate by themselves, as you say, and self yard themselves onto the log landings. When they are there, I measure and mark them, (sipping my beer, of course) and then they load themselves remotely onto the waiting trucks that roll on by, not even having to stop.
> 
> But that's not all! Once the trees are cut, the slash levitates to the burn piles all by itself. We can either burn it, or use the remote Bandit auto-chipper that makes them into hog fuel. Again, it all does it by itself! And then? Why, then the stumps dissappear all by themselves. The gournd swallow them all up! And then? The same Oregon ground opens up and sub-soils itself. Its amazing. Nice random patterns too. And then? The cones from last year all pop open and the trees replant themselves! Right there! All by themselves! Oh, and then? Why, in Oregon, wherever a tree sprouts, there is a nice 2 foot radius of released area that nothing grows in! No weeds or grass or anything! No need to spray them either. And the trees are fertilized all by themselves, as the deer go by they poop on each and every one of them, without browsing on them. Yessiree bob... nothing like logging in Oregon. A Gyppo lone logger like myself can do it all by himself. No crews, cable yarding equipment, skidders, loaders, or anything else. Oh, and there are logging roads already here (its true, this property has tons of skid roads already graded here from previous logging done over the past 100 years or so).
> 
> And that's all there is to it folks! Oregon logging is easy stuff. All you have to do is supply the beer. And an MS361. And buy some land here. Other than that, its just pay the 6% taxes and find a mill to buy your logs. Yessir, I am on my 3rd 6-pack today! :spam:



Why all the smilies at the bottom. Someone already got Windthgrown a beer or 18.


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## Gologit (Mar 8, 2008)

2dogs said:


> Why all the smilies at the bottom. Someone already got Windthgrown a beer or 18.



I liked his logging methods, though. Maybe I'll go up there and hire on for the season. Hell, I can stand around and watch the work get done all by itself ..I'd be better at it than anyone I know.


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## windthrown (Mar 8, 2008)

Gologit said:


> I liked his logging methods, though. Maybe I'll go up there and hire on for the season. Hell, I can stand around and watch the work get done all by itself ..I'd be better at it than anyone I know.



Well, yah know, its not _that _easy. You have to sharpen and tighten the chains, and fill the saws with gas. And pull the logging permits, make a lot of calls to sell the logs, and get tuckers set up to run them to the mills. And the beer budget is pretty steep. Oregon has a high beer tax, yah know? 

Other than that, logging here is a sinch


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## 2dogs (Mar 8, 2008)

And all the trees are cut, bucked, and milled with a 290?


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## slowp (Mar 9, 2008)

windthrown said:


> Well, yah know, its not _that _easy. You have to sharpen and tighten the chains, and fill the saws with gas. And pull the logging permits, make a lot of calls to sell the logs, and get tuckers set up to run them to the mills. And the beer budget is pretty steep. Oregon has a high beer tax, yah know?
> 
> Other than that, logging here is a sinch



And it is probably micro brew, and you have to return the bottles to get your nickel back. Up here in Warshington, we can just throw them out the window because we have no bottle/can deposit. So, on the ride home, the crummies become lighter as empty bottles/cans are jettisoned thus increasing fuel efficiency. That savings in fuel efficiency can be paid out in increased wages.
Orygunians have to stop at Fred Meyer and throw their cans in the return thing which will usually then break down. Then they have to listen to the Fred Meyer computer voice echo through the store about Customer Service needed in can deposit area. It drives them mad! 

We Warshingtonians are a simpler people. No can deposits, no income tax, no buying hard liquor in the grocery store. We don't have to tell people how to pronounce Yachats, we have simpler town names like Sequim and Pateros. Yup, we live simple but well.


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## windthrown (Mar 9, 2008)

2dogs said:


> And all the trees are cut, bucked, and milled with a 290?



No, the 361 is the automated magical saw that does it all. The 290 is just in case the 361 decides to take a nap in the middle of the day.

Also the neighbor has the bandsaw mill... I have some oak ready to be slabbed up. Nice 24 inch oak log up there, about 12 ft long. I pulled out the 361 see, and waived it in the air, and the oak just shuddered and tipped over all by itself. I am waiting for the oak to levitate itself the 1.5 miles up to the neighbor's log mill though. It seems to be taking its time about it. Resting. CA Black Oaks can be more grumpy than Doug firs, and not as easy to coax into being levitated. More beer needed I think. I will have to take up a case of Oly and drink it there by that log to see if it will do its thing.


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## 2dogs (Mar 9, 2008)

Oly?! Is that still around or is this NOS?


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## windthrown (Mar 9, 2008)

Sure is. I just bought a 12 pac of Olympia beer the other day (my father's favorite beer, after Coors, which he could not by in Oregon back then).

"Its the water."

Union made... not a Stamper beer.


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## 2dogs (Mar 9, 2008)

Thanks. I'm not sure if this is good news or bad.


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## zopi (Mar 9, 2008)

one hour, seventeen minutes..:greenchainsaw:


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## slowp (Mar 9, 2008)

But, can you get Schmidtties (animal beer) in Oregon? I'm afraid it has been replaced by Busch Light as the can most often seen in the ditch.


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## turnkey4099 (Mar 10, 2008)

On the History Channel today 4 times...well one is tomorrow:

7pm, 8pm, 11pm, 12 midnight

Good show but one has to suspend his safety sense somewhat. Playing around with a cable being uncoiled by a helicopter and whipping around is not sane.

Harry K


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## windthrown (Mar 10, 2008)

slowp said:


> But, can you get Schmidtties (animal beer) in Oregon? I'm afraid it has been replaced by Busch Light as the can most often seen in the ditch.



Few cans in ditches here. They are nickles in the ditch in Orygun. Never saw Schmidtties... see Busch and Busch Lite in the store. I have been trying to find a cheap drinkable beer leately. Ales are too spendy.


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## Marc (Mar 10, 2008)

turnkey4099 said:


> On the History Channel today 4 times...well one is tomorrow:
> 
> 7pm, 8pm, 11pm, 12 midnight
> 
> ...



I was thinking the same thing... I'm about the furthest thing behind a chainsaw from a professional logger but I can't imagine standing even remotely close to those coils of cable, or being a faller without full (or at least a little bit, besides hard hat) PPE. I was dissapointed there wasn't more falling footage, but the little they did show, the guys were dressed in less than what I wear when I cut my firewood. And I'm only felling hardwoods less than a paltry 100' tall. But as I said, I'm not in much position to judge.


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## slowp (Mar 10, 2008)

Marc said:


> I was thinking the same thing... I'm about the furthest thing behind a chainsaw from a professional logger but I can't imagine standing even remotely close to those coils of cable, or being a faller without full (or at least a little bit, besides hard hat) PPE. I was dissapointed there wasn't more falling footage, but the little they did show, the guys were dressed in less than what I wear when I cut my firewood. And I'm only felling hardwoods less than a paltry 100' tall. But as I said, I'm not in much position to judge.



That attire is what they wear out here. The bigger danger is getting your chaps hung up on something when you have to move quickly. A lot of them don't wear eye protection even, because they say they want a clear, unobstructed view of what is going on around them. I'm seeing more wearing safety glasses though. You probably didn't see the earplugs. The fallers (except I know of one who doesn't) wear earplugs out here. The landing guys will have earplugs in too. Those yarder whistles will blow your ears out on the landing. They can be heard miles away. It is a cheery sound to hear them in the distance. Full brim hardhats are preferred--more protection from rain and theoretically more protection from tree limbs. The Warshington safety guys would have fined the Browning kid for having a dented one though. I've heard the fine is around $150 per dent. That's why some companies go with plastic. :greenchainsaw:


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## smokechase II (Mar 10, 2008)

*Sales Tax*

"*have to stop at Fred Meyer and throw their cans in the return thing which will usually then break down. Then they have to listen to the Fred Meyer computer voice echo through the store about Customer Service needed in can deposit area. It drives them mad!"*

Have you been spying, Slowp?

*********************

I wish more sales tax on you.


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## smokechase II (Mar 10, 2008)

*This time, incorrect*

Mr Slowp:

"*Apparently Oregon loggers are not only cheaper, but also walk on water."*

Is not completely accurate.

Any Oregon Logger is better than any and all other loggers.
But especially ...........

Both Oregon and Warsh*g*ington Loggers walk on some water. About 1/16th if an inch is what is on the ground/limbs.


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## Marc (Mar 10, 2008)

slowp said:


> That attire is what they wear out here. The bigger danger is getting your chaps hung up on something when you have to move quickly. A lot of them don't wear eye protection even, because they say they want a clear, unobstructed view of what is going on around them. I'm seeing more wearing safety glasses though. You probably didn't see the earplugs. The fallers (except I know of one who doesn't) wear earplugs out here. The landing guys will have earplugs in too. Those yarder whistles will blow your ears out on the landing. They can be heard miles away. It is a cheery sound to hear them in the distance. Full brim hardhats are preferred--more protection from rain and theoretically more protection from tree limbs. The Warshington safety guys would have fined the Browning kid for having a dented one though. I've heard the fine is around $150 per dent. That's why some companies go with plastic. :greenchainsaw:



Huh, ok. Does anyone wear pants with cut protection built in? Seems like a simple way around chap hangups. I thought of that right when I heard Browning say he almost cut off his foot when he was running a saw and his prosthesis failed.

There was a clip from a DVD on YT, I can't remember the name of the DVD, it was some independent documentary about old growth logging on VC island, and all the fallers there were wearing basically the same PPE I wear... Different terrain? Just different culture? Stricter/different safety regs?

If anyone knows the YT clip I'm thinking of and can link to it, I'd appreciate it... YT is blocked at work...  If you search for "loggers DVD" I think it will come up...

Edit: I think this is it... www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ52o03B3OE


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## slowp (Mar 10, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> Mr Slowp:
> 
> 
> Is not completely accurate.
> ...



I have not, nor do not intend to have a sex change operation. No Mister here mister. I like my pastel clothes and can notice, that the loggers shown in Loggers World somehow look better than the ones working in the woods.  I think they must clean up for the pictures.  

I lived and worked on the Oregon Coast for a few years and found "The Voices" of Fred Meyer a little disturbing at times. Seems like everytime I managed to remember my cans, the thing would be broke down or a club of some kind would be dumping their pickup loads of donations. 

I was only stating what a 3rd generation Orygun logger told me. I don't think he'd be telling any tales, do you? But for some reason, his equipment is still parked up here in Warshington.


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## blackoak (Mar 10, 2008)

*Well I watched it twice*

First off I'm just a Hoosier Hillbilly and it was interesting to see how the skylines were set up and the landings. We use a skidder to dragem back to the landings here. 
I thought it was a good show, BUT I was dissappointed in the size of trees that were being harvested. I was hoping to see some of the real trees that the PNW is known for. Maybe later on in the series I won't be. Please excuse my stupidity, but remember I'm from Indiana, but how is a real log brought back to the landing when cutting on such steep angles in the PNW???


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## .aspx (Mar 10, 2008)

blackoak said:


> BUT I was dissappointed in the size of trees that were being harvested. I was hoping to see some of the real trees that the PNW is known for.



A lot of the trees being harvested last night were from blow-down sites. A lot were probably already down and just needed to be bucked. These need to be harvested quickly as they stands they grow in will be devastated during the next wind storm.

There was a front-page story in the Seattle Times about a week ago where timber farms in southern Washington had to do an "emergency harvest" due to the impact of last years' windstorms.


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## Oly's Stump (Mar 10, 2008)

Great Show! The loggers in my state sure don't deal with the mountainous terrain. I wonder how many times a yarder or yoder went tumbling down the mountain.


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## AZLOGGER (Mar 10, 2008)

.aspx said:


> A lot of the trees being harvested last night were from blow-down sites. A lot were probably already down and just needed to be bucked. These need to be harvested quickly as they stands they grow in will be devastated during the next wind storm.
> 
> There was a front-page story in the Seattle Times about a week ago where timber farms in southern Washington had to do an "emergency harvest" due to the impact of last years' windstorms.



*.aspx,*
You are very correct about the blow-down sites, that is how I started in the logging business in 1979, I started out doing salvage logging on blow-down sites, forest fire burns, and bug kill timber. These logs need to be removed as quickly as possible, or the value and merchantability of the timber drops drastically. Logging these blow-down areas also raises logging costs, as mother nature does a crappy job of directional felling, also there are a lot of trees still attached to the root wads jack-strawed everywhere, there is also an elevated risk of danger involved logging these areas.
So to all of those logging those blow-down sites up there in the PNW be very careful and live to log another day.


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## rmihalek (Mar 10, 2008)

First of all, that guy who is the son of the J. M. Browning Co. owner has a really bad attitude. He might be learning the ropes from his Dad so that he has the respect of the crew, but once he's handed the reins, he may have trouble getting anyone to work for him with that pissy attitude.

Secondly, not all east coasters think that timber harvesters are "lumberjacks" who wear black and red flannel shirts and a knit wool cap like Paul Bunyon. What we've got here is a guy making a sweeping generalization complaining about people making sweeping generalizations!

Third, wow! These guys (and gals) work in horrible conditions. I enjoy being out in the forests and mountains, but that's when the tree are vertical. The muddy log landings, steep hillsides covered in blow downs and blanketed in slash is just insane. I can not imagine the difficultly of working in that environment day after day. When the foreman tweaked his back from that little slip it just showed how something pretty small can end up being a big deal. The one guy they said has been a faller for 30 years seems to have the right mix of seriousness and humor. When the yarder operator quit, the expression on the faller's face was like "yeah, you'll be back, sucker..."


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## wood4heat (Mar 10, 2008)

rmihalek said:


> The one guy they said has been a faller for 30 years seems to have the right mix of seriousness and humor. When the yarder operator quit, the expression on the faller's face was like "yeah, you'll be back, sucker..."



That guy was an @ss! Correct me if I'm wrong here but logging jobs are getting far and few between aren't they? I'd say good riddance and find someone who was happy to be working.


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## HolmenTree (Mar 10, 2008)

Up here in the Canadian great white north all I could find on the History Channel was Sands Of Iwo Jima maybe we'll get it at a later date.


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## AZLOGGER (Mar 10, 2008)

wood4heat said:


> That guy was an @ss! Correct me if I'm wrong here but logging jobs are getting far and few between aren't they? I'd say good riddance and find someone who was happy to be working.



If you are referring to the yarder engineer, a good yarder engineer is pretty hard to replace, and yes most if not all of them will have an attitude. Then comes the shovel operators, they will tend to have attitude problems, if you start operating a shovel and don't have an attitude, you will soon get one. I believe I can speak truthfully about that, as I operated a shovel for 24 years. These are 2 of the most responsible and important jobs in this type of logging, remember there is a lot of activity going on at the landing and you are always watching for the people on the ground, that they are out of harms way before you move anything. Logging is not one of the safest environments to be around, although with proper training and alert people, everyone goes home at the end of the day.


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## gavin (Mar 10, 2008)

Marc said:


> Huh, ok. Does anyone wear pants with cut protection built in? Seems like a simple way around chap hangups. I thought of that right when I heard Browning say he almost cut off his foot when he was running a saw and his prosthesis failed.
> 
> There was a clip from a DVD on YT, I can't remember the name of the DVD, it was some independent documentary about old growth logging on VC island, and all the fallers there were wearing basically the same PPE I wear... Different terrain? Just different culture? Stricter/different safety regs?
> 
> ...




yeah here on the b.c. coast you have to wear ppe. i've never seen a faller wear chaps, they all wear chainsaw pants. virtually everyone wears the hardhats with flip down pelter earmuffs and a flip down screen visor. you also have to have a certain amount of reflective material on you: front back and sides.


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## rmihalek (Mar 10, 2008)

*shovel?*

AZLogger, excuse the dumb question, but is a shovel an excavator-type piece of equipment or like a catepillar dozer or what? 

What's the role of the shovel operator at a logging site?


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## windthrown (Mar 10, 2008)

rmihalek said:


> Third, wow! These guys (and gals) work in horrible conditions. I enjoy being out in the forests and mountains, but that's when the tree are vertical. The muddy log landings, steep hillsides covered in blow downs and blanketed in slash is just insane. I can not imagine the difficultly of working in that environment day after day.



That is not as bad up there as it can be down here in the central Oregon coastal ranges in the Tyee Core (gelological) area. Here we have more landslides and floods due to sandstone and mudstone and a thin soil covering which does not allow water to seep deep into the earth. It all washes off. So the steeps here can be even steeper than up there (more headwalls), and the run-off can be worse in the rains. I have lived in both areas myself. These mountains get a lot of rain... I measure rain in _feet _here. We got 6 ft last rain year (July to June), and over 8 ft the year before (rain gauges flooded out that year). We have about 5 ft so far this year. 

Also note that the weather in the first show was pretty mild, and the mud was not that bad. Trust me... that was damp earth, not mud that the Sherman tank yarder got stuck in. We get these heavy rains in December and January (one to two feet per month) when the trees are dormant and the water has no place to go. Also, the hurricane that came though here late last year was far worse than the one they are clearning up after in the show (posted here: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=58901&highlight=PNW+hurricane). 

As for the cable yarding and the steep mess and all, that pretty much looks like the way that they do it around here. Blow down or not. Steep conditions, lots of rain, mud, snow, wind, and then more rain and mud, and well, in summer it does not rain very much. But fire season prevents cutting in a lot of areas that time of year, and everyone here with equipment works on roads in summer (if anyone is hiring, that is).


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## Gologit (Mar 10, 2008)

rmihalek said:


> AZLogger, excuse the dumb question, but is a shovel an excavator-type piece of equipment or like a catepillar dozer or what?
> 
> What's the role of the shovel operator at a logging site?



Looks like AZLogger is off-line so I'll try to help. It's that old Left Coast terminology again...a shovel is basically an excavator type of machine with grapples attached to load logs. There's usually a serrated butt plate on the boom for one end of the log to lever against while the other end of the log is held in the grapples. The term shovel is a real antique...left over from the old steam-shovel days in the woods.

The shovel operator is responsible for sorting and decking the logs as they come on the landing.

He also loads the trucks....sometimes thirty loads a day. This might account for his sour disposition at times. 

He's usually the first one to work in the morning...way before daylight so he can get the first round of trucks out before skidding and yarding start. He's also usually the last one to go home at night...gotta get those last trucks loaded.

A good shovel operator is worth his weight in gold. The smarter truck drivers bring them donuts and otherwise don't bug them.


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## windthrown (Mar 10, 2008)

wood4heat said:


> That guy was an @ss! Correct me if I'm wrong here but logging jobs are getting far and few between aren't they? I'd say good riddance and find someone who was happy to be working.



Most of my logging friends in Vernonia are idle, and have been for over a year now. One guy I know there with perfect, 24"+ DBH low taper Doug fir trees (best I have seen in a long time) is felling a few a week and bucking them up into firewood. Better price on firewood than he can get at the mill (Doug fir is at about $650 MBF). Most mills up there and around here are not taking any logs, except cedar and alder. I have seen no log trucks come out of here in the past 2 months. First year I lived here (4 years ago) timber was booming. Trucks were rolling out of here 4 or 5 an hour. You could hear yarding in the background all the time. Beep beep... beep beep beep. 

Quiet here now... very quiet. They marked off an adjacent property to ours for loggng here 2 years ago.. Lone Rock Timber had sent us a note that they intended to cut it this past fall, and they put in a road up there the previous year and boulder'd it off from traffic. No cut though. We were hoping that we could get the 5 acre section thinned below it in the process (trade for lumber) on the same north slope. We do not have the equipment to get the logs out, it is just to steep. They have the property above and behind it, so it would be easy for them to yard it out. Thinning was big 2 years ago too. Huge tracts were thinned up along the ridge above us. Not now. Mills here are deciding if they should shut down (and lose money) or keep a skelleton crew and process just enough logs to stay open (and also lose money). 

Dire times for the logging industry. And the economy in general. Housing is in the tank... foreclosures are common. Also banking is in the tank. And the stock market is in the tank. The housing boom is over.


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## 2dogs (Mar 10, 2008)

windthrown said:


> Most of my logging friends in Vernonia are idle, and have been for over a year now. One guy I know there with perfect, 24"+ DBH low taper Doug fir trees (best I have seen in a long time) is felling a few a week and bucking them up into firewood. Better price on firewood than he can get at the mill (Doug fir is at about $650 MBF). Most mills up there and around here are not taking any logs, except cedar and alder. I have seen no log trucks come out of here in the past 2 months. First year I lived here (4 years ago) timber was booming. Trucks were rolling out of here 4 or 5 an hour. You could hear yarding in the background all the time. Beep beep... beep beep beep.
> 
> Quiet here now... very quiet. They marked off an adjacent property to ours for loggng here 2 years ago.. Lone Rock Timber had sent us a note that they intended to cut it this past fall, and they put in a road up there the previous year and boulder'd it off from traffic. No cut though. We were hoping that we could get the 5 acre section thinned below it in the process (trade for lumber) on the same north slope. We do not have the equipment to get the logs out, it is just to steep. They have the property above and behind it, so it would be easy for them to yard it out. Thinning was big 2 years ago too. Huge tracts were thinned up along the ridge above us. Not now. Mills here are deciding if they should shut down (and lose money) or keep a skelleton crew and process just enough logs to stay open (and also lose money).
> 
> Dire times for the logging industry. And the economy in general. Housing is in the tank... foreclosures are common. Also banking is in the tank. And the stock market is in the tank. The housing boom is over.



Yep. The logging economy has been riding the hot air balloon of home sales. That in turn was created by political pressure on the banks to lend to people who could never pay the loan back. There is a neawly created community called Westin Village south of Sacramento on I-5 where 2/3 of the houses are in foreclosure. There are entire blocks of houses unoccupied where the owners just walked away. In addition many people have upside down loans. An old gf of mine bought a house about 10 years ago for $126k. She refied every few years and now owes$362k and the nhouse is valued at $360k. Homes around here would sell in hours for thousands over the asking price. Now they are for sale for months and sell for less than the asking price. But, I don't see this as such a bad thing. It is the way things were just a few years ago. The market corrects itself periodically but it leaves some wounded. BTW when my parents bought there first house their payments were $11.00 a month and they were worried about making it.


You can't sell any DF to the local mill. They only take redwood. DF is firewood around here too. Why mill lumber that won't be sold?


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## Marc (Mar 10, 2008)

gavin said:


> yeah here on the b.c. coast you have to wear ppe. i've never seen a faller wear chaps, they all wear chainsaw pants. virtually everyone wears the hardhats with flip down pelter earmuffs and a flip down screen visor. you also have to have a certain amount of reflective material on you: front back and sides.



Huh, know anyone that appears in that documentary? I'm thinking about buying it. I think it'd be more informative and professional than Ax Men.

Edit: By "professional" I mean the quality of the documentary, not the quality of the men being filmed.


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## 2dogs (Mar 10, 2008)

slowp said:


> But, can you get Schmidtties (animal beer) in Oregon? I'm afraid it has been replaced by Busch Light as the can most often seen in the ditch.



Down here Natural Ice is the cheap stuff and the #1 side-o-the-road can. That stuff causes more trouble than meth. Some of the cheap liquor stores have their own brand of vodka that sells for a few bucks. When I was in the FD I had the pleasure of knowing many of the drunks on a first name basis since I saw them so often. It was sad to see what unrestrained alcohol use did to men and women. They also really stunk!


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## 2dogs (Mar 10, 2008)

slowp said:


> I'm home for day 3 of massive mucous loss. Just opened up box number 3 of Puffs. So, since I am stuck here, I was able to watch the Live show a short time ago, obviously not live. Had to suffer through a million commercials and a long interview with (is this not ironic?) Woody Harrelson who I can't stand.
> The loggers got about 5 minutes. Jay Browning ( I think) told how he lost part of his hand and I about lost my lunch. He tripped near a moving block and got his hand sucked through. Ick. Then they did a cute skit with some guy named Guillermo, showing clips from the show interspersed with Guillermo eating pancakes and getting a splinter in his hand. It ended with Guillermo in a backyard supposedly dumping a bush in a swimming pool and then they all got chased out by the homeowner. That was it. Now I'm going to dose myself with Benadryl. Good Night.




Great! You gave me what ever you had. Thanks a bunch. Aaa-a-chew!


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## slowp (Mar 10, 2008)

2dogs said:


> Great! You gave me what ever you had. Thanks a bunch. Aaa-a-chew!



If it makes you feel better, I am working with half a lung. Or so it feels like. Ran Twinkle just a little today. Always good to run equipment while using over the counter drugs. Seems to be an epidemic of this lung crud around here. 

So, I'm afraid my mom will see this show and figure that since I go down there it is too dangerous and she'll restart pestering me about how I should get a nice job in the office. She finally quit doing that about 15 years ago.


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## 2dogs (Mar 10, 2008)

slowp said:


> If it makes you feel better, I am working with half a lung. Or so it feels like. Ran Twinkle just a little today. Always good to run equipment while using over the counter drugs. Seems to be an epidemic of this lung crud around here.
> 
> So, I'm afraid my mom will see this show and figure that since I go down there it is too dangerous and she'll restart pestering me about how I should get a nice job in the office. She finally quit doing that about 15 years ago.



When my daughter watched the show last week she asked me to quit logging. I told her we work smaller trees but she has seen all my pics so now I needed to come up with a new lie. Then I said most of the trees I fall are dead. "Oh you mean snags, that is even worse. You told me that". Well at least I don't swear. Much. (Dirty look). I never should have told her about getting hit and having to be hauled to the hospital back in '82. My wife just told me to make sure my life insurance policy is easy to get to.


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## joe wood (Mar 10, 2008)

the people who made the axemen called me and we talked for over an hour about logging and what i thaught they should make thier show about. they were going to film mechanical sides and skidder logging. I told them ground logging was so simple and easy my wife and daughter can do it. And they can! they both run my fmc and set thier own chokers if they have to. So i told them to go north and fing a good yarder side. The only problem is they never listened to me because i told them to bypass oregon. I specificly told them anywhere north of oregon. So what we get is loggers whining about the weather, using rope for haywire, bouncing thier carriage off the logs in the chute, cutters making 3 ft high stumps,goofy choker setters hanging on the riggin trying to bust thier ass. nothing i saw was anything like a good old school logging side should look like. I like the looks of the ty 90 side until i saw the helicopter layout fiasco. Why pay good money to the helicopter when you can put it in the crews pockets. A good hooktender would have spent all saturday for free laying ribbons for the layout before he would let a high priced chopper do his work for him. lol hope nobody gets offended but thats the way i see it so far . maybe things will get better next week.I know its hard to get good experienced help in the riggin.


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## greenmm (Mar 11, 2008)

Very well put Joe! How about stretching a Yoder out 2500'. Why not with all their line speed


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## AZLOGGER (Mar 11, 2008)

rmihalek said:


> AZLogger, excuse the dumb question, but is a shovel an excavator-type piece of equipment or like a catepillar dozer or what?
> 
> What's the role of the shovel operator at a logging site?


Sorry folks I had to take care of business this afternoon. As an answer to your question it is a highly modified excavator, modified to lift, instead of digging. Take a look at the boom it is straight instead of curved, also the hydraulic cylinders are relocated for lifting, instead of normal positions for excavating. The (car body) as we refer to it is modified for clearance and width, you will see this when looking for shovel logging machines as high and wide.



Gologit said:


> Looks like AZLogger is off-line so I'll try to help. It's that old Left Coast terminology again...a shovel is basically an excavator type of machine with grapples attached to load logs. There's usually a serrated butt plate on the boom for one end of the log to lever against while the other end of the log is held in the grapples. The term shovel is a real antique...left over from the old steam-shovel days in the woods.
> 
> The shovel operator is responsible for sorting and decking the logs as they come on the landing.
> 
> ...


Very true gologit, I have had truck drivers bring me nice warm steak dinners and some of the best home-cooked meals you could ever imagine, just for staying a little later or being easy on their rigs while loading them. They just appreciate a good gentle operator. I have put in some hellacious hours in a machine before, basically living out of the cab of a pickup for days, when the trucks have to haul out on the freeze, then you have to be there to sort species and clear the shute and also load trucks. Try working 16 to 22 hours a day for a week and see how cranky you can get, (no one wants to even be around you).
Sorry for the ranting and raving, but sometimes thats the way it was!


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## slowp (Mar 11, 2008)

AZLOGGER said:


> Very true gologit, I have had truck drivers bring me nice warm steak dinners and some of the best home-cooked meals you could ever imagine, just for staying a little later or being easy on their rigs while loading them. They just appreciate a good gentle operator. I have put in some hellacious hours in a machine before, basically living out of the cab of a pickup for days, when the trucks have to haul out on the freeze, then you have to be there to sort species and clear the shute and also load trucks. Try working 16 to 22 hours a day for a week and see how cranky you can get, (no one wants to even be around you).
> Sorry for the ranting and raving, but sometimes thats the way it was!



Still the way it is for some operators. I found one guy, the owner of the outfit, napping in his cab while the yarder was going full bore next to him. He'd get up at 2AM to load trucks. One of the truckers is his dad, who is a real go getter. The trucks might make 2 trips a day. But he has to stay and keep the chute clear, and then be there when his dad returns because his dad wants to be loaded that night so he can take off first in the morning. This guy frequently offers the job to me, or the yarder engineer job, but I decline. The decor in the yarder is just...well...too manly. Up until now, (when there is now no work around here)he couldn't find a shovel operator, his hooktender would fill in sometimes but also tended to break things, so the guy was stuck putting in long hours. He's had the same trouble finding crew.
A few days I'd go up and he'd be short handed. Half his crew would not show and he'd be sharing jobs with his hooktender and chaser. The three of them would be yarding. Rough time though.


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## Oly's Stump (Mar 11, 2008)

I can see how the new home construction crash has hurt the logging industry. Does lumber come into USA from overseas and if so thats got to hurt ?


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## slowp (Mar 11, 2008)

2dogs said:


> Great! You gave me what ever you had. Thanks a bunch. Aaa-a-chew!



How's it going today? I have not had a good night's sleep in a week, and went out and started doing stooopid things so came back in and went home. At least my ears are popping today!


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## windthrown (Mar 11, 2008)

Oly's Stump said:


> I can see how the new home construction crash has hurt the logging industry. Does lumber come into USA from overseas and if so thats got to hurt ?



Oh yah, and it hurts. The logs roll in from Canada here. Weyehauser has a big yard near here (used to be Willamette) and they get logs form Canada on the rail lines which run right into their mill, and saw them up into dimentional lumber, and off they go to Home Depot and Lowes. 

Been a long war over improting logs from Canada under NAFTA, and they finally agreed on a deal to import them into the US. It floods an already dead log market. Now there is also a lot of blow-down along the OR/WA/BC coast from the hurricane late last year that will have to be salvage logged, adding more downward pressure on the log prices. 

A lot of timber is also exported from around here. We live near Highway 38 that runs to the coast from I-5, and there are always logging trucks heading to Coos Bay and ships to the export markets. Big logs tend to go in that direction (old growth).


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## 2dogs (Mar 11, 2008)

I wake up every morning felling like epoxy has been injected up my nose and into my sinuses. I have soak in the bath before I can even 
'blow by dose". The accompanying headache just makes mornings so much fun. Benadryl knocks me out like a trout but it's worth it. I feel OK during the day, then about 5pm my throat starts to hurt again. This too shall pass.


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## Grace Tree (Mar 11, 2008)

2dogs said:


> I wake up every morning felling like epoxy has been injected up my nose and into my sinuses. I have soak in the bath before I can even
> 'blow by dose". The accompanying headache just makes mornings so much fun. Benadryl knocks me out like a trout but it's worth it. I feel OK during the day, then about 5pm my throat starts to hurt again. This too shall pass.



2 drops of sesame oil (found in the Chinese cooking section at your grocery store) in each nostril while laying on your back before you go to sleep. Smells kind of like burned popcorn. Do it every night and within a week your sinuses should clear. Really works.
Regards,
Phil


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## Cedarkerf (Mar 11, 2008)

windthrown said:


> Oh yah, and it hurts. The logs roll in from Canada here. Weyehauser has a big yard near here (used to be Willamette) and they get logs form Canada on the rail lines which run right into their mill, and saw them up into dimentional lumber, and off they go to Home Depot and Lowes.
> 
> Been a long war over improting logs from Canada under NAFTA, and they finally agreed on a deal to import them into the US. It floods an already dead log market. Now there is also a lot of blow-down along the OR/WA/BC coast from the hurricane late last year that will have to be salvage logged, adding more downward pressure on the log prices.
> 
> A lot of timber is also exported from around here. We live near Highway 38 that runs to the coast from I-5, and there are always logging trucks heading to Coos Bay and ships to the export markets. Big logs tend to go in that direction (old growth).



We have a new log yard here they are loading logs into ship containers for export. Keeping a lot of independents busy hauling. Been a long time since I have seen so many logs comin down from the mountains. Funny watching em stuff the logs into the containers finesse not required.


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## 2dogs (Mar 11, 2008)

Small Wood said:


> 2 drops of sesame oil (found in the Chinese cooking section at your grocery store) in each nostril while laying on your back before you go to sleep. Smells kind of like burned popcorn. Do it every night and within a week your sinuses should clear. Really works.
> Regards,
> Phil



40:1 or 50:1?


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## Gologit (Mar 11, 2008)

Oly's Stump said:


> I can see how the new home construction crash has hurt the logging industry. Does lumber come into USA from overseas and if so thats got to hurt ?



One of our biggest competitors for the structural lumber market is Canada.

At one of our mills the mainline railroad tracks go right by the front gate of the mill. If a train is passing through all traffic in and out of the mill waits for it.

If it's a train load of Canadian lumber, and there are MANY, some of the guys get out and throw rocks at the train.


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## turnkey4099 (Mar 12, 2008)

Small Wood said:


> 2 drops of sesame oil (found in the Chinese cooking section at your grocery store) in each nostril while laying on your back before you go to sleep. Smells kind of like burned popcorn. Do it every night and within a week your sinuses should clear. Really works.
> Regards,
> Phil




I find that a good, healthy sniff of an open jar of horseradish will clear mine. Of course that depends on being _able_ to get a good sniff though the blockage.

Harry K


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## windthrown (Mar 12, 2008)

Cedarkerf said:


> We have a new log yard here they are loading logs into ship containers for export. Keeping a lot of independents busy hauling. Been a long time since I have seen so many logs comin down from the mountains. Funny watching em stuff the logs into the containers finesse not required.



The all mightly dollar is dirt cheap; we will be exporting a lot more logs (and other stuff) now. I have never seen logs stuffed into containers though. In Coos Bay they load them onto ships as... logs. No containers required. Seemingly you do not really even need a ship... just a tug. When I was a kid there were log rafts all up and down the Willamette and Columbia Rivers, and all around the Puget Sound.


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## slowp (Mar 12, 2008)

2dogs said:


> I wake up every morning felling like epoxy has been injected up my nose and into my sinuses. I have soak in the bath before I can even
> 'blow by dose". The accompanying headache just makes mornings so much fun. Benadryl knocks me out like a trout but it's worth it. I feel OK during the day, then about 5pm my throat starts to hurt again. This too shall pass.



You have milder stuff. The crud going around here comes with fever, not too horrible but the chills thing, massive cough till your ribs feel like they'll come apart, and achy stuff. Finally slept. Still got a cough but not as bad. There's only one solution that works for me at this point, go out and hork it up. Ick.

Very few log trucks going by to the mill here and I heard that they quit buying logs for a while. Our FS cops caught a cedar thief in the act. I caught some guys cutting firewood in a no no place, maybe I better start giving to the food bank.


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## AZLOGGER (Mar 12, 2008)

*2dogs, slowp*
Get rid of that crap you got, (get well soon).



> Originally Posted by* Cedarkerf *We have a new log yard here they are loading logs into ship containers for export. Keeping a lot of independents busy hauling. Been a long time since I have seen so many logs comin down from the mountains. Funny watching em stuff the logs into the containers finesse not required.



Why in the hell would you want to put logs in shipping containers, unless you were trying to hide them, or didn't want someone knowing that you are in the log transporting business.
Oh me, I figured it out, the ships have to return the shipping containers to get their deposit back, so if they stuff logs in them they have a paying backhaul eh!
That crap they sell at Home Depot and Lowes is about as green of lumber you can get, without it still growing. I think the mill cuts the lumber, runs it thru the planer, bundles it, and ships it off to the store, no drying process involved, other than the tansport time from mill to store. Go buy some lumber, or check the price of lumber, can we say "expensive". I can assure you, from experience, the logger is not the one getting rich, you would think that, with the housing market down, building materials would be cheaper, "KNOT". Alright enough venting for now, AZLOGGER OUT!

:angry2: :deadhorse:


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## 2dogs (Mar 12, 2008)

AZLOGGER said:


> *2dogs, slowp*
> Get rid of that crap you got, (get well soon).
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks!

It is like the cattle business and COOL. Lumber should be marked with a Country of Origin stamp and a Processed in XXX stamp. Let the consumer have an informed say in what they want to buy. "Made in Communist China" is what the stamp SHOULD say for any goods made or processed in China!


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## windthrown (Mar 12, 2008)

Actually here at the nearest Home Depot lumber prices are down. Take strandboard, for example. The price of strandboard was way up to almost $20 a sheet after hurricane Katrina. Now it is more like $5 a sheet. 2x4s here are almost a dollar again. But in places that do not have a local lumber industry, prices are high from increased transport costs. Oil is over $100 a barrel. As for drying, yes... at the big dimentional lumber mills, the logs are delivered by RR car, unloaded, milled, and the RR cars are re-loaded with the cut lumber. They 'dry' them on the cars for a few days, and they are off to wherever. Usually some distribition senter for Lowes or Home Depot. 

Near to here, the largest mill peels logs into rough plywood layers and core posts, and the layers are trucked to Roseburg for press-laminating, trimming and finishing. There is also an engineered lumber (glue-laminated) mill, and a few specialty mills that cut wood into small stuff like door sills and window trim kits. I raid them for sawdust shavings for the gardens, and odd bits of lumber. One old mill with an old sawdust burner dome has been converted into a firewood splitting, drying and wrapping 'mill'. They buy whole cull logs and end cuts and cut and split them into piles for drying over the summer, and wrap and ship them in the fall. Some of the mills are not allowing scavaging any more, and are selling the scrap wood for firewood in bins and on pallets (for a lot of money, too). 

It seems that we are in transition here; timber is becoming more valuable as firewood than for lumber. Price of oil is over $100 a barrel...


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## HolmenTree (Mar 12, 2008)

Gologit said:


> One of our biggest competitors for the structural lumber market is Canada.
> 
> At one of our mills the mainline railroad tracks go right by the front gate of the mill. If a train is passing through all traffic in and out of the mill waits for it.
> 
> If it's a train load of Canadian lumber, and there are MANY, some of the guys get out and throw rocks at the train.



That lumber your talking about is Pine Beetle lumber from B.C. Just about every stick of pine in B.C. is dead and the mills and loggers are high grading like crazy. 90% of Canadian lumber goes to the U.S. Why? because the U.S. has 10 times the population Canada has.The American whole salers, the builders and the public in the states love our cheap lumber.Weyerhauaser based out of I believe Portland Oregon is one of the largest lumber producers here in Canada. Our lumber mill here in northern Manitoba [Tolko] which is owned by a couple of Canadian brothers from B.C. produces a million b.f. a day and are only a small operation. All the Weyerhauser mills around here are shut down because they don't like competition it seems. Their huge pulp/bleach paper mill in Prince Albert, Sask. has been shut down for 2 years. Our Tolko opertion here also has a pulp/kraft SPX paper mill and they can't produce fast enough .Their enjoying record sales because their niche is in cement and dog food bag paper made from our strong slow growing soft wood fiber here.The lumber div. supplies the chips.Paper is not in the NAFTA deal so the border is wide open.Record number of mills are shut down across Canada but the Tolko mill here runs on EFFICIENCY.


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## Gologit (Mar 12, 2008)

HolmenTree said:


> That lumber your talking about is Pine Beetle lumber from B.C. Just about every stick of pine in B.C. is dead and the mills and loggers are high grading like crazy. 90% of Canadian lumber goes to the U.S. Why? because the U.S. has 10 times the population Canada has.The American whole salers, the builders and the public in the states love our cheap lumber.Weyerhauaser based out of I believe Portland Oregon is one of the largest lumber producers here in Canada. Our lumber mill here in northern Manitoba [Tolko] which is owned by a couple of Canadian brothers from B.C. produces a million b.f. a day and are only a small operation. All the Weyerhauser mills around here are shut down because they don't like competition. Their huge pulp/paper mill in Prince Albert, Sask. has been shut down for 2 years. Our Tolko opertion here also has a pulp/paper mill and they can't produce it fast enough .Their enjoying record sales because their niche is cement and dog bag paper made from our strong slow growing soft wood fiber here.The lumber div. supplies the chips.Paper is not in the NAFTA deal so the border is wide open.Record number of mills are shut down across Canada but the Tolko mill here runs on EFFICIENCY.



Yup...makes sense to me. And thanks for the information. It probably won't stop the guys from throwing rocks, though.


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## Gologit (Mar 12, 2008)

*Hey Slowp...and you too, 2Dogs*



slowp said:


> You have milder stuff. The crud going around here comes with fever, not too horrible but the chills thing, massive cough till your ribs feel like they'll come apart, and achy stuff. Finally slept. Still got a cough but not as bad. There's only one solution that works for me at this point, go out and hork it up.



Did you two sneak down here and breathe on me when I wasn't looking? Or is the Respiratory Virus From Hell communicable over the 'net?

Now I have the same crud but since you two seem to be surviving I guess I can, too. If I don't dehydrate like a prune first.

"Hork it up"...yeah, that fits. :censored: :censored: :censored: Bob


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## slowp (Mar 12, 2008)

Well, it was a gross day because I only put in 1 extra hanky and needed about 3 extras. I had to shut Twinkle off while I had coughing fits. Today is day 8 of the fungus. And all the moisture and braincells will be coming out your nose if you have this stuff. I'm ready to go to sleep now.....


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## 2dogs (Mar 12, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Yup...makes sense to me. And thanks for the information. It probably won't stop the guys from throwing rocks, though.




Bob can I send you a box of rock to through at the train for me? Also, pick off cattle any trucks you can. Wjat is worse, BSE or Pine Beetles. Dern Canadian diseases.


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## 2dogs (Mar 12, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Did you two sneak down here and breathe on me when I wasn't looking? Or is the Respiratory Virus From Hell communicable over the 'net?
> 
> Now I have the same crud but since you two seem to be surviving I guess I can, too. If I don't dehydrate like a prune first.
> 
> "Hork it up"...yeah, that fits. :censored: :censored: :censored: Bob



I take OTC Benadryl to dry my sinuses up so I don't drip snot like a leaky faucet and the stuff magically turns snot into JB Weld in the middle of the night. I need a kevlar hankie.


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## slowp (Mar 12, 2008)

2dogs said:


> I take OTC Benadryl to dry my sinuses up so I don't drip snot like a leaky faucet and the stuff magically turns snot into JB Weld in the middle of the night. I need a kevlar hankie.



OW! KEVLAR? My nose is sore and chapped from the day of hell with insufficient hankies. The toilet paper in the truck was too rough. I think I'll have to prewash today's hankies. Wow, this is a nice whiney thread.  Since I have the lung fungus, I take half a dose of Primatene in the morning. That's stuff you have to almost be fingerprinted to get. Well, gotta walk the dog. Will fill my pocket with Puffs.


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## olyman (Mar 12, 2008)

More beer needed I think. I will have to take up a case of Oly and drink it there by that log to see if it will do its thing.[/QUOTE]
along this line---oly beer still being made??????????? havent seen that here in years------also--you loggers are cracking me up!!!! but at least we find out the truth from the fiction-------------


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## gavin (Mar 12, 2008)

Marc said:


> Huh, know anyone that appears in that documentary? I'm thinking about buying it. I think it'd be more informative and professional than Ax Men.



no i dont' know anybody thats in that one, but one of my friends who is a faller knows some people that were on the 'Death in the Forest' documentary.

i think i know the one you're talking about though, is it the one that says 'custom cutters' or something like that? i haven't seen the whole documentary but i've seen the youtube clips. looks like its probably a good film.


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## gavin (Mar 12, 2008)

HolmenTree said:


> That lumber your talking about is Pine Beetle lumber from B.C. Just about every stick of pine in B.C. is dead and the mills and loggers are high grading like crazy. 90% of Canadian lumber goes to the U.S. Why? because the U.S. has 10 times the population Canada has.The American whole salers, the builders and the public in the states love our cheap lumber.Weyerhauaser based out of I believe Portland Oregon is one of the largest lumber producers here in Canada. Our lumber mill here in northern Manitoba [Tolko] which is owned by a couple of Canadian brothers from B.C. produces a million b.f. a day and are only a small operation. All the Weyerhauser mills around here are shut down because they don't like competition. Their huge pulp/paper mill in Prince Albert, Sask. has been shut down for 2 years. Our Tolko opertion here also has a pulp/paper mill and they can't produce it fast enough .Their enjoying record sales because their niche is cement and dog bag paper made from our strong slow growing soft wood fiber here.The lumber div. supplies the chips.Paper is not in the NAFTA deal so the border is wide open.Record number of mills are shut down across Canada but the Tolko mill here runs on EFFICIENCY.




if i'm not mistaken, i was told weyerhauser is now run by a canadian company based out of toronto called Brascan or something like that.

edit: just looked it up. apparently they paid $1.2 billion for 5 mills, 258,000 hectares of private timberlands, and rights to 3.6 million cubes of public timber (TFL's). not sure how much, if any, that left weyerhaeuser with. (From http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2005/02/18/brascan-050218.html)


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## HolmenTree (Mar 12, 2008)

gavin said:


> if i'm not mistaken, i was told weyerhauser is now run by a canadian company based out of toronto called Brascan or something like that.
> 
> edit: just looked it up. apparently they paid $1.2 billion for 5 mills, 258,000 hectares of private timberlands, and rights to 3.6 million cubes of public timber (TFL's). not sure how much, if any, that left weyerhaeuser with. (From http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2005/02/18/brascan-050218.html)



A good read Gavin, from what I understand from the article is Brascan only bought 5 saw mills and 2 planer mills from Weyerhaeuser. No one owns Weyerhaeuser but Weyerhaeuser. As far as I know they are still the largest forestry company in the world.


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## turnkey4099 (Mar 13, 2008)

slowp said:


> OW! KEVLAR? My nose is sore and chapped from the day of hell with insufficient hankies. The toilet paper in the truck was too rough. I think I'll have to prewash today's hankies. Wow, this is a nice whiney thread.  Since I have the lung fungus, I take half a dose of Primatene in the morning. That's stuff you have to almost be fingerprinted to get. Well, gotta walk the dog. Will fill my pocket with Puffs.



Another remedy for clearing sinuses (don't try this!) that I found by accident and my sorrow.

Wife had a old canister of pepper spray. Wondering if it ws any good, I stepped outside and sprayed a cloud. The brain fart was stepping in and taking a sniff.

For the next 15 minutes I was either coughing and spitting or mopping my nose - ran like a fire hose.

Harry K


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## slowp (Mar 13, 2008)

turnkey4099 said:


> Another remedy for clearing sinuses (don't try this!) that I found by accident and my sorrow.
> 
> Wife had a old canister of pepper spray. Wondering if it ws any good, I stepped outside and sprayed a cloud. The brain fart was stepping in and taking a sniff.
> 
> ...



I usually, but haven't this time, make something and put a lot of Jalepenos in it when I have a cold. I made pepper spray last year unintentinally. Was following a recipe for a sauce. I couldn't find the peppers it called for locally so threw in jalepenos and began "sauteing". Pretty soon my dog wants out, my eyes are hurting and I start coughing. Had to put a fan in the door. Then, that night, I rubbed my eyes with my hand and more fun. That stuff doesn't wash off either.....
Slept decent last night only one coughing event. Will take lots of hankies to work today, the soft ones. I don't have the crackling lungs this morning so I'm horking it out gradually. I think I'll live. How're the other two? Using Puffs, Kleenex, Western Family or Equate?


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## Gologit (Mar 13, 2008)

slowp said:


> I usually, but haven't this time, make something and put a lot of Jalepenos in it when I have a cold. I made pepper spray last year unintentinally. Was following a recipe for a sauce. I couldn't find the peppers it called for locally so threw in jalepenos and began "sauteing". Pretty soon my dog wants out, my eyes are hurting and I start coughing. Had to put a fan in the door. Then, that night, I rubbed my eyes with my hand and more fun. That stuff doesn't wash off either.....
> Slept decent last night only one coughing event. Will take lots of hankies to work today, the soft ones. I don't have the crackling lungs this morning so I'm horking it out gradually. I think I'll live. How're the other two? Using Puffs, Kleenex, Western Family or Equate?



Puffs? Girly stuff. I cut some squares from an old lumber tarp...I look like Rudolph but maybe the abrasive action will carve a few centimeters off of my beak.  I tried some of those medicated tissues but if they touch my glasses I get smear streaks and there's one more thing to be grumpy about.
You realize, of course, that you've added a new word to my vocabulary. Horking....that is very descriptive. I'm still chugging around. I always figured if I could walk I could work...just not walking very far.


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## slowp (Mar 13, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Puffs? Girly stuff. I cut some squares from an old lumber tarp...I look like Rudolph but maybe the abrasive action will carve a few centimeters off of my beak.  I tried some of those medicated tissues but if they touch my glasses I get smear streaks and there's one more thing to be grumpy about.
> You realize, of course, that you've added a new word to my vocabulary. Horking....that is very descriptive. I'm still chugging around. I always figured if I could walk I could work...just not walking very far.



I have a Hitler style chapped spot under my nose. Icky. I've been running late cuz I want the horking calmed prior to going to work. I think life will return to normal next week. Keep on...


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## 2dogs (Mar 13, 2008)

You two are disgusting talking about stuff like that! I'm as right as rain today. Yeah me! Dern good thing too cause our scout troop is going camping this weekend and it is raining. The bestest thing to do take one, only one, shot tequila early in the morning.


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## slowp (Mar 13, 2008)

It was a 4 hankie day today. A fine and miserable day in the rain too. But we are PNWers and we love it.


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## Gologit (Mar 13, 2008)

2dogs said:


> You two are disgusting talking about stuff like that! I'm as right as rain today. Yeah me! Dern good thing too cause our scout troop is going camping this weekend and it is raining. The bestest thing to do take one, only one, shot tequila early in the morning.



LOL...We're not being disgusting...we're being descriptive. Thanks for the tequila suggestion but so far the meds are working. I like tequila so much I don't drink it anymore.


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## slowp (Mar 14, 2008)

Time for more benadryl and sleep. I'm being a stereotypical FS employee and taking tomorrow off to try to get better. 

The crud has been through the timber shop and is now hitting the biologists!   :greenchainsaw:


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## windthrown (Mar 14, 2008)

slowp said:


> It was a 4 hankie day today. A fine and miserable day in the rain too. But we are PNWers and we love it.



Rain? We call that stuff "moisture" down here. At least, they do on the news and weather stations. We are supposed to have more "moisture" every day in the PNW for the next week. 

But yah, we love it! Why, just the other day I was out cutting wood with the 361 and it started to rain, and I did not even notice it. I looked around after a while, and thought to myself, "Oh, we are getting some moisture..." and went back to cutting up some rounds into firewood. Even my cat goes out in the rain to hunt for voles. He comes in soaking wet, and does not seem to notice it or mind being wet.


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## mtfallsmikey (Mar 14, 2008)

*On Sirius*

Axmen interview today (3-14) Sirius Road dog Trucking channel, 11 am-3 pm EDT. Freewheelin' show. Replay early Monday am 2 am-6 am EDT.


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## slowp (Mar 14, 2008)

windthrown said:


> Rain? We call that stuff "moisture" down here. At least, they do on the news and weather stations. We are supposed to have more "moisture" every day in the PNW for the next week.
> 
> But yah, we love it! Why, just the other day I was out cutting wood with the 361 and it started to rain, and I did not even notice it. I looked around after a while, and thought to myself, "Oh, we are getting some moisture..." and went back to cutting up some rounds into firewood. Even my cat goes out in the rain to hunt for voles. He comes in soaking wet, and does not seem to notice it or mind being wet.



I'm not sure the others realize that there is fog, light drizzle, drizzle, heavy drizzle, rain etc. Newcomers call it all rain but we have a complicated rating system that ends with "Frog Strangler". I would call yesterday's moisture rain because I put on a raincoat. I usually don't in the various drizzles.


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## windthrown (Mar 14, 2008)

Yah, lovely drizzle... I usually do not take note of that stuff. Rain is well, rain. From the various fogs and drizzle types that you mention, there is sort-of rain, light rain, meduim rain, and rain. Then there is what I call rain-rain, or raining raining, or really raining which is a steady rain that I will stop working in. One will get soaked fast in raining rain. Then there are the havy rain types, above raining raining. Starting with hard rain, and then heavy rain, and then fat rain, which is heavy rain in more sparce dropmets, but they sting when they hit you. My brother calls that 'chubby rain' after the fake movie that they made in a Steve Martin movie. Then there is raining buckets, and raining small animals, and then raining in sheets. That is when we get sheets of rain in variations that you can see. Then there are torrents of rain, and raining large animals. Then last on the rain list, there is cloudburst. I have only experienced that a few times, once here, once in Mexico, once in San Diego, and once in Portland when I was a kid driving around with my father. Things just let loose, and the world is flooded in about 20 minutes of solid heavy downpour. 2 inches an hour+ stuff. This usually leads to flash flooding. Then there is the evil freezing rain, that turns to ice when it hits anything. 

Right now we are between steady drizzle and light rain here. "Is it raining?" rain. Spring has sprung, and the daffodills are flowering now. Spring showers today. Enough to stop us from spraying today, so nothing to do but play on the 'puter. Ick, I have to do my taxes today too... :jawdrop:


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## big daddio (Mar 14, 2008)

hey, i see a whole lot of west coast loggers on this forum, i usually hang out on the millin' forum but wanted to see what everybody thought about the axmen show. just wanted to see if anybody besides me heard something about loggers on the east coast didn't know anything about the west coast way of logging. i logged in the east tenn, sw va and east ky area for 25 years or so and we might have been behind on the cable and helilogging stuff for a while, maybe didn't want or need it, but you could put a film crew on some of the old time logging, cuttin' and skiddin' [and roadbuildin'] on some of these impossible slopes around here and have people sittin' on the edge of their seats. course everythings changing here too, can actually watch the choppers from the house sometimes. bad thing, the landowner gets screwed when they sell the supposedly inaccessable timber that has to be helilogged.


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## slowp (Mar 14, 2008)

big daddio said:


> hey, i see a whole lot of west coast loggers on this forum, i usually hang out on the millin' forum but wanted to see what everybody thought about the axmen show. just wanted to see if anybody besides me heard something about loggers on the east coast didn't know anything about the west coast way of logging. i logged in the east tenn, sw va and east ky area for 25 years or so and we might have been behind on the cable and helilogging stuff for a while, maybe didn't want or need it, but you could put a film crew on some of the old time logging, cuttin' and skiddin' [and roadbuildin'] on some of these impossible slopes around here and have people sittin' on the edge of their seats. course everythings changing here too, can actually watch the choppers from the house sometimes. bad thing, the landowner gets screwed when they sell the supposedly inaccessable timber that has to be helilogged.




I have learned, that everything can be logged. Just what do you want to pay for it and what do you want it to look like afterwards. Helicopter costs are quite high and the market here is quite low so I wouldn't really think the landowner is getting screwed. Just sold at the wrong time.


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## Cedarkerf (Mar 14, 2008)

slowp said:


> I'm not sure the others realize that there is fog, light drizzle, drizzle, heavy drizzle, rain etc. Newcomers call it all rain but we have a complicated rating system that ends with "Frog Strangler". I would call yesterday's moisture rain because I put on a raincoat. I usually don't in the various drizzles.


My rule of thumb is if there is moisture in the air and you dont here it its in the drizzle/fog stage when you can here it hitting your clothes its rain and when you can hear it coming its heavy rain. All these are also known as a typical western Washington day.


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## jpvjr (Mar 24, 2008)

slowp said:


> I'm home for day 3 of massive mucous loss. Just opened up box number 3 of Puffs. So, since I am stuck here, I was able to watch the Live show a short time ago, obviously not live. Had to suffer through a million commercials and a long interview with (is this not ironic?) Woody Harrelson who I can't stand.
> The loggers got about 5 minutes. Jay Browning ( I think) told how he lost part of his hand and I about lost my lunch. He tripped near a moving block and got his hand sucked through. Ick. Then they did a cute skit with some guy named Guillermo, showing clips from the show interspersed with Guillermo eating pancakes and getting a splinter in his hand. It ended with Guillermo in a backyard supposedly dumping a bush in a swimming pool and then they all got chased out by the homeowner. That was it. Now I'm going to dose myself with Benadryl. Good Night.



Here's the magic cure all for all that ails ya---VODKA,LOTS & LOTS OF VODKA.


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## slowp (Mar 24, 2008)

jpvjr said:


> Here's the magic cure all for all that ails ya---VODKA,LOTS & LOTS OF VODKA.



I'm over that. Lungs are back to full capacity. Kleenex use has stabilized. Hitler rash is gone.


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## turnkey4099 (Mar 25, 2008)

slowp said:


> I'm over that. Lungs are back to full capacity. Kleenex use has stabilized. Hitler rash is gone.



Best keep on with the therpeutic Vodka - never know when a relapse might occur 

Harry K


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## nametrux (Mar 26, 2008)

*Ax Men*

Just started reading this thread. Downloaded the first Ep. of Ax Men and watched it. Looks like a good show. Dloading Ep 2&3 now will check them out tonight Thanks for the info about the show.


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## windthrown (Mar 26, 2008)

Yah, I watched episode 3 here at my brother's in High Def. Man, BLING-vision sure makes it more jazzy! The detail is amazing in HD. Also in #3 they get down to sawing and felling more, and less on yarding. The storm that hits at the end of #3 is a smaller one though; we get those regularly here in the PNW. 

I was up in Vernonia and Banks and North Plains yesterday. Got some interesting photos that I will post later. We also went off-roading near Idiot Creek in my brother's tomb Raider Jeep. We have done a lot of off-roading over the years up there in Brown's Camp, pretty much in the center of where the show takes place. Also as the show gets into in later episodes, the economy slows down to a crawl, where it still is there now. My friends up there are still just felling firs for firewood and selling it to subsist. The lumber industry remains in the dirt. Sadly...


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## elliott (Mar 28, 2008)

I watched the show for the first time last night. Pretty cool. I was surprised that one of the crews let that young fella' help with falling when he had no falling experience. If that's the norm, then where do I sign up? :greenchainsaw: 

I helped out a logging crew just a little bit here in Colorado last summer, and I said that I wanted to be a faller. They said the chainsaw is ancient now and that feller-bunchers have replaced the faller. But it didn't look to me like you could get a feller buncher around in that terrain that is seen in Axe Men. So, in the PNW, are there more fallers than mechanical harvesters, or are we seeing a rarity on the show with all the felling done with a saw?


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## slowp (Mar 28, 2008)

elliott said:


> I watched the show for the first time last night. Pretty cool. I was surprised that one of the crews let that young fella' help with falling when he had no falling experience. If that's the norm, then where do I sign up? :greenchainsaw:
> 
> I helped out a logging crew just a little bit here in Colorado last summer, and I said that I wanted to be a faller. They said the chainsaw is ancient now and that feller-bunchers have replaced the faller. But it didn't look to me like you could get a feller buncher around in that terrain that is seen in Axe Men. So, in the PNW, are there more fallers than mechanical harvesters, or are we seeing a rarity on the show with all the felling done with a saw?



When the lumber market is better, there is still a lot of ground too steep or too wet where chainsaws are still the norm. Most of the fallers around here started out on a rigging crew or were born into it and learned from their dad or other relative. There was a young kid 18, who came to work in the rigging but then ended up following one of the cutters around and bucking.
Most guys learn how to buck before falling.


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## huskykid141 (Mar 28, 2008)

*axemen*

this is one of the best reality t.v. shows i have ever seen. Its about time they put something on t.v. that is good and i like. Can't wait till this weeks episode.:greenchainsaw:


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## turnkey4099 (Mar 29, 2008)

I'm looking forward to the one on Alaska also. The adverts don't give much of a clue as to what it will be about.

Harry K


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## hammerlogging (Mar 31, 2008)

You're gonna get hand felling wherever the land is too steep and/or rocky and the timber is all running big. PNW, Appalachians, for example. Or where the productivity of the crews is too low to get the utilization required to pay for the tracked or wheeled fellerbunchers or processors.
 
Other than being harder and not as cool, I've wondered why the newer guys will get stuck with limbing topping and bucking. I've always considered that more dangerous than felling. Statistically, I've heard 85% of cutters deaths are within 15 feet from the stump, not limbing, etc. I don't know. Maybe those deaths are fellas like the one "expert" in CO "felling" christmas trees without PPE- he could've been limbing and less than 15' from the stump.


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## rmihalek (Apr 1, 2008)

I thought the most interesting aspect of the latest episode was the segment where the guy with 30 years' experience as a faller was teaching his son how to fell trees. The veteran's motto was to stand close to the tree until the last second and then "run" or "get out of the way" or something like that. He claimed that you don't want to turn your back and run from the tree as the hinge starts to open because then you won't see everything.

They showed pictures of him dropping a couple trees: he has his saw (one handed) in the kerf with the hinge opening up and his other hand is up on the stem as the tree is going over.

I understand that the ground is covered in debris and it's hard to get away from the falling tree, but I can't believe this guy survived 30 years of falling trees standing at the stump as it's going over.


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## Cedarkerf (Apr 1, 2008)

He was saying make sure the tree is committed to the fall so you know its not gonna come back over on ya. If ya think its gonna fall one way so ya start focusing on where your going and something like a wind gust tips it back yur screwd. Do you get a tree to the point of teetering walk away and find out its not falling? Now walk back up to the tree and finish he job?


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## windthrown (Apr 1, 2008)

Amusing show this week. My brother and I went online after the show and posted a few questions. Seems that they avoided answering our question about if they are working now, so I presume that they are not. Most of my friends around Banks and North Plains are not working as fallers; one is driving for my brother's pizza place and another is doing pressure washing. One got his 'card' and is, well, growing rope, legally. 

The next show will get into it, as the mills slow down and the economy tanks. Then in December the hurricane hits, and hits hard. Then in January it all flooded out up around there, Vernonia, Banks, the whole Tillimook area. The Wilson River took out the rail line. It is still a mess (I was up in North Plains last week, looking at some flooding along some friend's creeks). I have to wonder how many shows thay are going to have. They had to have stopped all logging in early December. The roads were closed until after Christmas.

We shall see...


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## 2dogs (Apr 1, 2008)

Cedarkerf said:


> He was saying make sure the tree is committed to the fall so you know its not gonna come back over on ya. If ya think its gonna fall one way so ya start focusing on where your going and something like a wind gust tips it back yur screwd. Do you get a tree to the point of teetering walk away and find out its not falling? Now walk back up to the tree and finish he job?



That paragragh gave me a shiver. I have walked away from a tree too early and watched it teeter-totter for half a minute. The wedge fell out and the tree settled on the stump sky bound. If I could have I would have left it overnight and hoped it came down. As it was I wrapped it with a choker and pulled 45o backwards till the hinge broke and the tree spun ff the stump. It fell the opposite way I was pulling and got hung up, but since it had a choker on it I was able to pull it free. Lots of bad things can happen between the stump and the ground. Especially if you do stupid a thing like I did


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## Gologit (Apr 1, 2008)

rmihalek said:


> I understand that the ground is covered in debris and it's hard to get away from the falling tree, but I can't believe this guy survived 30 years of falling trees standing at the stump as it's going over.



He's survived 30 years in the woods doing things his way. I'd be inclined to give him a good leaving alone...he's getting it done.


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## big daddio (Apr 2, 2008)

hammerlogging said:


> You're gonna get hand felling wherever the land is too steep and/or rocky and the timber is all running big. PNW, Appalachians, for example. Or where the productivity of the crews is too low to get the utilization required to pay for the tracked or wheeled fellerbunchers or processors.
> 
> Other than being harder and not as cool, I've wondered why the newer guys will get stuck with limbing topping and bucking. I've always considered that more dangerous than felling. Statistically, I've heard 85% of cutters deaths are within 15 feet from the stump, not limbing, etc. I don't know. Maybe those deaths are fellas like the one "expert" in CO "felling" christmas trees without PPE- he could've been limbing and less than 15' from the stump.



my first job in the woods was topping. got knocked down a couple of times and had one stem whiz by my face before i started seriously paying attention. thank goodness the timber cutter watched me and gave some good advice on tension. like you said, in this area most of the deaths are close to the stump, mostly widowmakers, but a lot of injuries from limbing and topping. [yeah, and i've still seen guys lay the saw into a tree without even looking up first]


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