# Dealer says Husqvarna 550xp and 545 are junk



## Dieseldash (Oct 19, 2016)

I'm all shook up and need some help. I went to my local dealer this week with intent ( boss lady was on board) to buy a 550xp or 545 with auto tune. I want a nice pro grade 50cc class light weight saw. Didn't see any on the shelf so asked if they could order one in. They said they'd had nothing but problems with the husky auto tunes and told me all kinds of horror stories. I've read a bunch of good reviews online so I was a bit surprised. This is the closest dealer to me and they sell mostly Stihls but carry Husky, and Echo. I generally like dealing with them. He showed me the ms261 c-m and said they'd had much better luck with that saw, it felt OK but I know nothing about it. I'm mostly a Husky/ Jonsered fan and don't know what route to take. I like the idea of the auto tune or M-Tronic because I cut at a bunch of different altitudes and it could simplify life theoretically. But if the electronic widgetry is more of a hassle and needs the dealer to fix all the time then I don't want the hassle. I really wish they still made the 346xp new. I've been looking at finding a used one but a nice 346xp ne is usually pushing $400 plus which is awfully close to a new 545. 

I'm out in Colorado live on the front range but usually cut on a few properties from 9-10k feet but it would be nice to have one saw I didn't need to tune when using it down at 5000' or when I'm at out in MN. I've got a couple 70cc class saws and a Jonsered 2245 that I've been quite impressed with for a little 45cc limbing saw. When we are up cutting I generally take 4 saws with because time is critical and I can't be messing around going down into town to get parts or repairs, 2 hours plus each way.

Sorry for the long rambling post. Just looking for some advice input on what would be best so out of these what would you pick ?

New Husqvarna 550xp, 545 auto tune
Stihl 261 c-m
Nice used 346xp
Husqvarna 450 or 445 non "pro" (I have a Jred 2245 that I'm happy with)
Any other ideas?


----------



## Full Chisel (Oct 19, 2016)

He's wrong, those are both great saws. There has been some relatively minor issues with autotune...namely hot re-start issues. But otherwise they are good machines and the autotune would be great for cutting at different altitudes. A 346 would be my choice of all those though...


----------



## brad ruch (Oct 19, 2016)

I have a 545.and there full of BS.now mine is a 2016 model.i beleive the earlier models when they first came out some had hot issues.but not on the newer versions. Ohh and the m tronic carb has had issues.thats per the Chainsaw Guy.i had a chat with him before i got my 545.i have ran this in 90 degree hot humid weather also with no problem . starts right up one pull hot. Powerful little 50cc saw.i actually took back a ms311 to buy the 545 couldnt be happier.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## brad ruch (Oct 19, 2016)

brad ruch said:


> I have a 545.and there full of BS.now mine is a 2016 model.i beleive the earlier models when they first came out some had hot issues.but not on the newer versions. Ohh and the m tronic carb has had issues.thats per the Chainsaw Guy.i had a chat with him before i got my 545.i have ran this in 90 degree hot humid weather also with no problem . starts right up one pull hot. Powerful little 50cc saw.i actually took back a ms311 to buy the 545 couldnt be happier.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk





Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## reedo (Oct 19, 2016)

I wouldn't listen to that dealer. I have a 550, 562, 576, and the 540. All autotune, all fantastic saws!


----------



## brad ruch (Oct 19, 2016)

What i wish i would have done is spent extra 100 and got the 555.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## 1Alpha1 (Oct 19, 2016)

Buy that Stihl MS-261 C-M and don't look back.


----------



## wrx-snowdrift (Oct 19, 2016)

I had coworker tell me a similar story about his Husky dealer. They pretty much said that Autotune was junk and they've had nothing but problems with AT saws. I think the problem with Autotune saws, specifically the 550, is that people are more likely to repeat the bad reviews rather than the good. So there might be 20 good reviews and 1 bad but that bad review seems to have more weight than the 20 good and gets repeated and pretty soon the poor little 550 has a bad reputation that is completely undeserved.

I bought my 550 from mesupra several years ago and couldn't be happier. I had a few hot restart issues early on but once I figured out the right starting "sequence" I haven't had a single issue since.


----------



## rburg (Oct 19, 2016)

I have a 550 and a 2252/Jonsered's version of the 545 and I have not had any problems with either of them. Maybe your dealer has a 261cm in stock and would rather sell it. I have run a 261cm and I believe I would enjoy using one. You might ask him what kind of problems he has had with the autotune models.


----------



## Ryan'smilling (Oct 19, 2016)

One thing I like about this site is that now a guy can mostly live without a local dealer. If I were in your shoes, I'd have no problem buying a 545 or 550 from one of the sponsors here. They can often beat local prices too. 

One thing with the autotune saws, along similar lines: if you're local dealer is reluctant to sell them and has had bad luck with them, they may be a poor choice to take them in for troubleshooting. I gather they're a little different that a regular carbed machine, and having someone who understands the new technology is probably helpful.


----------



## Dieseldash (Oct 19, 2016)

brad ruch said:


> View attachment 532380
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



That's a sharp saw with the orange GB bar. Like most of us on here I think the 545 looks better than 550


----------



## Dieseldash (Oct 19, 2016)

rburg said:


> I have a 550 and a 2252/Jonsered's version of the 545 and I have not had any problems with either of them. Maybe your dealer has a 261cm in stock and would rather sell it. I have run a 261cm and I believe I would enjoy using one. You might ask him what kind of problems he has had with the autotune models.



He did have 2 sitting on the shelf...........

The ms261 does look like a nice saw.


----------



## Dieseldash (Oct 19, 2016)

Ryan'smilling said:


> One thing I like about this site is that now a guy can mostly live without a local dealer. If I were in your shoes, I'd have no problem buying a 545 or 550 from one of the sponsors here. They can often beat local prices too.
> 
> One thing with the autotune saws, along similar lines: if you're local dealer is reluctant to sell them and has had bad luck with them, they may be a poor choice to take them in for troubleshooting. I gather they're a little different that a regular carbed machine, and having someone who understands the new technology is probably helpful.



I'm gonna search out some other Husky dealers in the area. If I was buying a 372xp I'd buy it without hesitation from one of the sponsors, I'm fairly competent keeping saws working. With the auto tune I'd want a shop in the area who could flash the computer. I guess worst case I could mail it out for service but thanks a hassle too.


----------



## 7sleeper (Oct 19, 2016)

Check out if it is the new version 261. The new version is a little lighter & more aggresiv compared to the old model.

7


----------



## brad ruch (Oct 19, 2016)

Dieseldash said:


> That's a sharp saw with the orange GB bar. Like most of us on here I think the 545 looks better than 550


I got that bar and oregon lpx chain from site sponsor left coast supplies.bar and 2 chains was like 40.00 heck of deal.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Full Chisel (Oct 19, 2016)

I love those GB bars!


----------



## mark2496 (Oct 19, 2016)

550xp. The new version 261cm looks promising though.


----------



## tlandrum (Oct 19, 2016)

if your local stihl slash husky dealer says the 550 is junk then id move along to a better dealer. i have them in stock if you need one shipped out.


----------



## superw6 (Oct 19, 2016)

My Belleville ,Ontario Stihl--Husqvarna dealer was the same even Before auto tune saws. After going elsewhere for 576xpg I stopped , told him I wanted 50cc heated handle price for both and he refused to even quote 346xpg[emoji35] . Azzhole for sure!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## stevetheboatguy (Oct 19, 2016)

@spike60


----------



## CoreyB (Oct 19, 2016)

My local husqvarna dealer told me the same thing. I took my business elsewhere. 
However I am now managing the local husqvarna dealership. The 545 and 550 have had a lot of updates and they just keep getting better.


----------



## Big_Eddy (Oct 19, 2016)

superw6 said:


> My Belleville ,Ontario Stihl--Husqvarna dealer was the same even Before auto tune saws. After going elsewhere for 576xpg I stopped , told him I wanted 50cc heated handle price for both and he refused to even quote 346xpg[emoji35] . Azzhole for sure!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Try MacIntosh in Stirling. Much better service. I get a queasy feeling every time I stop by "your dealer". Not sure what it is, but something doesn't sit right with me. I've given them more than one try, but ultimately I always walk out.


----------



## Big Block (Oct 20, 2016)

I call BS. 545 was second on my list if I couldn't find a nice 346xp ne. I also agree that the 545 looks better.


----------



## superw6 (Oct 20, 2016)

Big_Eddy said:


> Try MacIntosh in Stirling. Much better service. I get a queasy feeling every time I stop by "your dealer". Not sure what it is, but something doesn't sit right with me. I've given them more than one try, but ultimately I always walk out.



Always deal in Stirling, now third generation to deal with them as I live there. I only went to Belleville to see what Stihl had to over but I can't deal with those guys at all [emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SCHallenger (Oct 20, 2016)

Dieseldash said:


> I'm all shook up and need some help. I went to my local dealer this week with intent ( boss lady was on board) to buy a 550xp or 545 with auto tune. I want a nice pro grade 50cc class light weight saw. Didn't see any on the shelf so asked if they could order one in. They said they'd had nothing but problems with the husky auto tunes and told me all kinds of horror stories. I've read a bunch of good reviews online so I was a bit surprised. This is the closest dealer to me and they sell mostly Stihls but carry Husky, and Echo. I generally like dealing with them. He showed me the ms261 c-m and said they'd had much better luck with that saw, it felt OK but I know nothing about it. I'm mostly a Husky/ Jonsered fan and don't know what route to take. I like the idea of the auto tune or M-Tronic because I cut at a bunch of different altitudes and it could simplify life theoretically. But if the electronic widgetry is more of a hassle and needs the dealer to fix all the time then I don't want the hassle. I really wish they still made the 346xp new. I've been looking at finding a used one but a nice 346xp ne is usually pushing $400 plus which is awfully close to a new 545.
> 
> I'm out in Colorado live on the front range but usually cut on a few properties from 9-10k feet but it would be nice to have one saw I didn't need to tune when using it down at 5000' or when I'm at out in MN. I've got a couple 70cc class saws and a Jonsered 2245 that I've been quite impressed with for a little 45cc limbing saw. When we are up cutting I generally take 4 saws with because time is critical and I can't be messing around going down into town to get parts or repairs, 2 hours plus each way.
> 
> ...



Stihl MS261 M-Tronic (new model is very close to 550XP in wt. & performance) or VERY LIGHTLY used 346XP or MS261 (original, non-M-Tronic carb).


----------



## IyaMan (Oct 20, 2016)

Earlier this year the 550xp was having "issues". This was not hearsay, it was a legitimate problem, supposedly with the carb. As stated, there have been a series of updates, and lots of new 550s were brought back in needed fixing. I would not say the dealer is right or wrong here, just that his concerns do have a certain bit of foundation. 

Change dealers if you want, but first read about the issue here: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/550xp-updates.295332/


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 20, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> Earlier this year the 550xp was having "issues". This was not hearsay, it was a legitimate problem, supposedly with the carb. As stated, there have been a series of updates, and lots of new 550s were brought back in needed fixing. I would not say the dealer is right or wrong here, just that his concerns do have a certain bit of foundation.
> 
> Change dealers if you want, but first read about the issue here: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/550xp-updates.295332/


Hesitation and throttle response off idle?


----------



## SCHallenger (Oct 20, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Hesitation and throttle response off idle?



I think that should have read, "hesitation & or bog when attempting to throttle up from idle".


----------



## Dieseldash (Oct 20, 2016)

IyaMan said:


> Earlier this year the 550xp was having "issues". This was not hearsay, it was a legitimate problem, supposedly with the carb. As stated, there have been a series of updates, and lots of new 550s were brought back in needed fixing. I would not say the dealer is right or wrong here, just that his concerns do have a certain bit of foundation.
> 
> Change dealers if you want, but first read about the issue here: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/550xp-updates.295332/



Interesting read thx


----------



## Andyshine77 (Oct 21, 2016)

I personally would stay away from the newer Husqvarna saws. Yes they're getting better, but that alone says it all IMHO. I'm not saying these saws are junk or anything like that, but with other options available, why take the risk of getting a dud? I won't comment on the dealer, they often make goofy claims, that's nothing new. If you like the 261 grab it and don't look back, I own a 550 and 261, I feel the Stihl is a better built higher quality product.


----------



## Big Block (Oct 21, 2016)

I'd like to give a new model 261 a spin. I've heard good things


----------



## SawTroll (Oct 21, 2016)

Sounds like it is that dealer that is "junk" - likely one of those that didn't care to "update" themselves on the AT saws?

I understand there are some of those out there.


----------



## 7sleeper (Oct 21, 2016)

I don't understand why so many are bashing the dealer. If his experience with husqvarna AT saws are like that that should be respected. Just an estimation, if he had bad luck and every fith saw was a dud, that would be 20% dropout! And if he has any discussion with husqvarna about guarrenty, I would completly understand that he is obviously disappointed! Just imagine any other small store having 20% returns on a product, that product would be sacked the next day!
I see it more impressive that he still is selling husqvarna although he has had problems!

7


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 21, 2016)

So, what was the outcome of 550s stumbling off idle? I never heard if the cause was determined and if there ever was a fix. I experienced it with several of them.

The 562 seems to be a great saw...*unless* you work in a hot environment...upper 80s and above. They have a know propensity to vapor locking. The other issues seem to have been ironed out.


----------



## adventurebob (Oct 21, 2016)

550XP is a good saw. I'm in Black Forest at 7610ft and it runs, no issues. I have had issues with the saw, however the complications were the dealer, and their lack of knowledge rather than the saw. I now use craigs outdoor power and they are well aware of any issues with any saw they sell. With my 550 both times have been the xfer port gasket. First saw ate itself with less than 20hrs on it; replaced under warranty after a long debate with husky and the dealer (not craigs). Second one the seal was torn, found by craigs when a knowledgeable tech did an actual diagnosis and found the leak. My experience is that when unknowledgeable folks see an AT saw not working they automatically blame the AT and stop doing diagnosis to actually find the problem. Both my saws were pre 2015 and supposedly Husky redesigned the port cover and gasket to prevent the issues I was having. Its the same thing that happened in the car world when everything started to move to electronic fuel injection. Techs simply had no clue if didn't have a carb and centrifugal distributor.


----------



## SCHallenger (Oct 21, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> So, what was the outcome of 550s stumbling off idle? I never heard if the cause was determined and if there ever was a fix. I experienced it with several of them.
> 
> The 562 seems to be a great saw...*unless* you work in a hot environment...upper 80s and above. They have a know propensity to vapor locking. The other issues seem to have been ironed out.



I haven't followed up on it. If I am in there anytime soon, I'll make it a point to ask. This is the same dealer who stood on his head for me when I had 562 problems. My best guess, without talking to him directly, is that he got the customer a new replacement.

IDK if my 562 works well in 90deg. weather or not. I don't!! I fade out like a dried up worm. It does perform very well in the cold including temps in the single digits.


----------



## ash man (Oct 22, 2016)

without a doubt my go to firewood saw the last 2 years. I got mine from mesapura also and have had absolutely no issues with the saw.


----------



## Tor R (Oct 22, 2016)

7sleeper said:


> I don't understand why so many are bashing the dealer. If his experience with husqvarna AT saws are like that that should be respected. Just an estimation, if he had bad luck and every fith saw was a dud, that would be 20% dropout! And if he has any discussion with husqvarna about guarrenty, I would completly understand that he is obviously disappointed! Just imagine any other small store having 20% returns on a product, that product would be sacked the next day!
> I see it more impressive that he still is selling husqvarna although he has had problems!
> 
> 7


if the dealer dont like those Huskies he dont need to sell them, Stihl has more then enough models to cover whatever a customer need, his claim is just ridicilous.
I got one Husky dealer where I purchase projects from, their sale rate is kinda 50+ 550's a year, if 20% of their sale got toasted I would be a lucky Norwegian, 2 project a year is what I get from them, so there you got the rate in Norway.
AT/mtronic or non AT/mtronic, there is +/- with them, some like them some hate them, for one customer who isnt great to tune a saw electronic carb is a good thing.


----------



## jr27236 (Oct 22, 2016)

This is a great read, the one thing is that you folks might know is, how is the OP to know he is getting the 550xp with said updates that cured or helped to prevent the issues they were having in the early stages? What is the build date or so forth he should look for, that way he don't get handed a NOS from the back.


----------



## Tor R (Oct 22, 2016)

jr27236 said:


> This is a great read, the one thing is that you folks might know is, how is the OP to know he is getting the 550xp with said updates that cured or helped to prevent the issues they were having in the early stages? What is the build date or so forth he should look for, that way he don't get handed a NOS from the back.


buy one who where factory build in 16, they update top cover& c&p, crank bearings in autumn 15, AT-12 carb spring 16.


----------



## axeandwedge (Oct 22, 2016)

SCHallenger said:


> I haven't followed up on it. If I am in there anytime soon, I'll make it a point to ask. This is the same dealer who stood on his head for me when I had 562 problems. My best guess, without talking to him directly, is that he got the customer a new replacement.
> 
> IDK if my 562 works well in 90deg. weather or not. I don't!! I fade out like a dried up worm. It does perform very well in the cold including temps in the single digits.


I'M with you on the high temps,not to mention higher fire risks.
On another note some of our Pro fellers aren't overly happy with the Stihl 661 in the cold temps,seems to take a while to run right from a cold start.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk


----------



## 7sleeper (Oct 22, 2016)

Tor R said:


> if the dealer dont like those Huskies he dont need to sell them, Stihl has more then enough models to cover whatever a customer need, his claim is just ridicilous.
> I got one Husky dealer where I purchase projects from, their sale rate is kinda 50+ 550's a year, if 20% of their sale got toasted I would be a lucky Norwegian, 2 project a year is what I get from them, so there you got the rate in Norway.
> AT/mtronic or non AT/mtronic, there is +/- with them, some like them some hate them, for one customer who isnt great to tune a saw electronic carb is a good thing.


That is nice of you to give us insight. So in your experience you have about max. 4% defekt rate. Sorry but even though I am not a dealer, I can imagine it being quite a hastle all wa ys needeing to deal with Husqvarna to get approval of cost replacement. I mean we are no talking about a ring from a chewing gum machine, these saws cost real money and needing to make those customers happy again will cost min a chain or two depending on how dominant in the area he is. All that time, that is also money, spent on organinzing, repairing, etc incl. a customer feel well again gift IS costing you money that will NOT be covered by the company guarentee!

7


----------



## Jet47 (Oct 22, 2016)

I love both the 550 and 562.


----------



## NC Cutter (Oct 22, 2016)

My closest dealer said about the same as OP's. He won't handle the auto tunes any longer and seems to be completely phasing out the Husky saws in favor of Echo.

I feel bad for the customers who have problems with these saws. If you watch the videos, they look impressive. If you ask an owner with a good one, they'd own nothing else. Conversely, if you dig for the negative reviews online, you'd think every single one was a problematic lemon. It seems like if you ask about one on a forum, the opinions you'll get will be highly dependent on who is online that day. Hopefully they'll get them figured out for the guys who own one.


----------



## superw6 (Oct 22, 2016)

My dealer here says he's had no trouble with either. I was in today to talk about the 545 I got for my Uncle last year . It has this bog if it idles for longer than 30 seconds. Will take it in in a couple weeks for a fix.


----------



## superw6 (Oct 22, 2016)

NC Cutter said:


> My closest dealer said about the same as OP's. He won't handle the auto tunes any longer and seems to be completely phasing out the Husky saws in favor of Echo.


 
My dealer sells both Husqvarna and Echo but when I asked him about Echo saws he said I wouldn't be happy with one knowing I have 288xp, 576xpg auto tune and 353 now. Have 550 XPG coming in next shipment so I'll be the next tester[emoji23]


----------



## Dieseldash (Oct 22, 2016)

Gotta say Thanks for all the good input fellas. Curently due to the lack of a dealer that's competent with the Auto-tune Huskies close by it's looking like 346XP for me. I've got a lead on a good 346XP NE locally. It seems Colorado is Stihl country and I'm just a little worried having a saw that couldn't be serviced easily. Next year I'm budgeting for a new 372xp and I have zero reservations buying it locally or from a site sponsor. I still really like the idea of having one saw that is M-tronic or auto tune to simplify the altitude variations I face. If I can't find a dealer better versed in the auto tunes I might have to grab a ms261 c-m at some point. I've wanted a 346 for 10 plus years and every good chainsaw enthusiast needs one in the collection. I'll keep you posted how it all shakes out.


----------



## traktorz (Oct 23, 2016)

While once getting a new chainsaw, get the heated handles model.


----------



## Tor R (Oct 23, 2016)

7sleeper said:


> That is nice of you to give us insight. So in your experience you have about max. 4% defekt rate. Sorry but even though I am not a dealer, I can imagine it being quite a hastle all wa ys needeing to deal with Husqvarna to get approval of cost replacement. I mean we are no talking about a ring from a chewing gum machine, these saws cost real money and needing to make those customers happy again will cost min a chain or two depending on how dominant in the area he is. All that time, that is also money, spent on organinzing, repairing, etc incl. a customer feel well again gift IS costing you money that will NOT be covered by the company guarentee!
> 
> 7


I've visit 3 dealers regulary the last 1 1/2 year, two of them has been in business for at least 30 years.
Those dealers sending their mechanicers for course so they are updated, that is a key when it comes to AT saws.
There has been issues with both old carb versions, it's to early to say how the new AT-12 work out, those issues is waranty covered by Husky.
2/3 of those dealers has parts avaible, customers doesnt suffer much when you deal with serious dealers.


----------



## SCHallenger (Oct 23, 2016)

NC Cutter said:


> My closest dealer said about the same as OP's. He won't handle the auto tunes any longer and seems to be completely phasing out the Husky saws in favor of Echo.
> 
> I feel bad for the customers who have problems with these saws. If you watch the videos, they look impressive. If you ask an owner with a good one, they'd own nothing else. Conversely, if you dig for the negative reviews online, you'd think every single one was a problematic lemon. It seems like if you ask about one on a forum, the opinions you'll get will be highly dependent on who is online that day. Hopefully they'll get them figured out for the guys who own one.



Great post!!


----------



## NC Cutter (Oct 23, 2016)

Tor R said:


> I've visit 3 dealers regulary the last 1 1/2 year, two of them has been in business for at least 30 years.
> *Those dealers sending their mechanicers for course so they are updated*, that is a key when it comes to AT saws.
> There has been issues with both old carb versions, it's to early to say how the new AT-12 work out, those issues is waranty covered by Husky.
> 2/3 of those dealers has parts avaible, *customers doesnt suffer much when you deal with serious dealers*.



Most outdoor power equipment places that I'm familiar with are just mom and pop outfits operating with as few as 2-3 employees. Do you honestly think these places can afford to send off employees for paid training? I don't. Most of them are probably too tight to spring for the diagnosis equipment, whatever that costs.

Where are these super serious dealers located? I'll be specific; the Triangle or really anywhere in Eastern NC. I've been in a lot of places in my travels and even called quite a few more when I was thinking of picking up a 562 and I don't know of any Husqvarna dealer that can really work on AT's. Maybe I'm missing something, but as far as I can see, what you're talking about is the equivalent to a unicorn.

Now I'm sure the Husky reps on here will think I'm picking on Husqvarna with that post, but I'm not. Just the facts from where I'm standing. I love my 372xp, but if I wanted a computer saw, it would have to be a Stihl because I know I could at least get it worked on.


----------



## 7sleeper (Oct 23, 2016)

What I always find mysterious is the assumption that AT/MT "computers" can be worked on?!? As far as I understood what a dealer can do is plug in and read out running hours and software version and what he can further do is an update to the software. That is it. Correct me if I am wrong, but all else basic diagnostic stays the same. 

7


----------



## Andyshine77 (Oct 23, 2016)

7sleeper said:


> What I always find mysterious is the assumption that AT/MT "computers" can be worked on?!? As far as I understood what a dealer can do is plug in and read out running hours and software version and what he can further do is an update to the software. That is it. Correct me if I am wrong, but all else basic diagnostic stays the same.
> 
> 7


From what I know that is correct. The AT and Mtronic system are not the cause of most, if any of the issues people have had. Air leaks, bad carbs, vapor lock do to bad overall design, seems to be the root cause, the AT systems are not the problem.


----------



## CoreyB (Oct 23, 2016)

Andyshine77 said:


> From what I know that is correct. The AT and Mtronic system are not the cause of most of any of the issues people have had. Air leaks, bad carbs, vapor lock do to bad overall design, seems to be the root cause, the AT systems are not the problem.


Hi @Andyshine77 
I think you are correct. I was able to teach myself on an afternoon the husqvarna AT software. It is not rocket science it is just a tool that may help diagnosis of a problem easier. Maybe


----------



## CR888 (Oct 23, 2016)

'What many fear the most is what they know least about', I think this statement applies to MT/AT systems in general. If Husky is going to use these technologies which is fine, they need to support the dealer network which they have not done well. You don't hear ad many threads like this about MTronic, not because the system is better but because the Stihl dealer network are better prepared & informed.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Oct 23, 2016)

CR888 said:


> 'What many fear the most is what they know least about', I think this statement applies to MT/AT systems in general. If Husky is going to use these technologies which is fine, they need to support the dealer network which they have not done well. You don't hear ad many threads like this about MTronic, not because the system is better but because the Stihl dealer network are better prepared & informed.


Mostly agree. Stihl simply hasn't had the need to redesign some of basic components every few months like Husqvarna has. Like it or not the implementation of the 5 series saws, seems to have been at times a disaster on nearly every front. I honestly feel for the dealers.


----------



## Dieseldash (Oct 23, 2016)

CR888 said:


> 'What many fear the most is what they know least about', I think this statement applies to MT/AT systems in general. If Husky is going to use these technologies which is fine, they need to support the dealer network which they have not done well. You don't hear ad many threads like this about MTronic, not because the system is better but because the Stihl dealer network are better prepared & informed.



Good point. 

I for one generally like the latest technology. A good example is I own a few Ski-Doo snowmobiles that are fuel injected 2 strokes. They've been pretty darn reliable and fairly easy for owners to maintain. However I have a fantastic dealer to help me out with the high tech aspects of the sleds. Im lacking the dealer support for the Auto tune Huskies that my Ski-Doo shop provides. I'm still on the look out and went by another shop today. They had 2 545's in stock but they were covered in dust and look like they've been on the shelf for 3 years. They don't do any maintenance in house they send it out for warranty work.


----------



## Tor R (Oct 24, 2016)

NC Cutter said:


> Most outdoor power equipment places that I'm familiar with are just mom and pop outfits operating with as few as 2-3 employees. Do you honestly think these places can afford to send off employees for paid training? I don't. Most of them are probably too tight to spring for the diagnosis equipment, whatever that costs.
> 
> Where are these super serious dealers located? I'll be specific; the Triangle or really anywhere in Eastern NC. I've been in a lot of places in my travels and even called quite a few more when I was thinking of picking up a 562 and I don't know of any Husqvarna dealer that can really work on AT's. Maybe I'm missing something, but as far as I can see, what you're talking about is the equivalent to a unicorn.


i can only speak about Southern Norway where I live, but I know all those 3 dealers send their mechanicers for courses. The three closest JRed dealers do the same.
Some of those dealers are big and sell farmer equipment so they can afford it, while some of those dealers are small, but as long as their bigger neightbours has done the course they had to do it also so they could keep their customers.

Maybe it's a huge difference between US and Norway, I know that I would not be afraid to purchase one AT saw here.


----------



## svk (Oct 24, 2016)

Yep, they are junk. Don't ever buy one. 



Mine just got back from Missouri today. Now it's even more junky. 



562/2260's are junk too.


----------



## Dieseldash (Oct 25, 2016)

svk said:


> Yep, they are junk. Don't ever buy one.
> View attachment 533238
> 
> 
> ...



That is not a junky saw!


----------



## SCHallenger (Oct 25, 2016)

If you ever come to a Mich. GTG, I think it would be great fun to have a 50cc shootout, especially if a certain MMWS ported 346 is there along with your 550!! Last year I tached the [email protected],500RPM & still very clearly 4-stroking!!

Oh yeah, I would also bring my 562. It doesn't need porting! It sings a pretty song with just a MM.


----------



## svk (Oct 25, 2016)

SCHallenger said:


> If you ever come to a Mich. GTG, I think it would be great fun to have a 50cc shootout, especially if a certain MMWS ported 346 is there along with your 550!! Last year I tached the [email protected],500RPM & still very clearly 4-stroking!!
> 
> Oh yeah, I would also bring my 562. It doesn't need porting! It sings a pretty song with just a MM.


A well modded 346 will normally take a 550 due to limitations in the 550's porting so I would give the edge to the 346. Stock the 550 has just a bit more nuts though. 

Although I'd be curious to see how two built the same way from the same builder stack up.

There was some smack talk on here lately about some other 60 cc saw beating a 562 head to head by a significant margin. Well at the saw races in the stock class a 2260 and 562 finished 1-2 after dispatching every other brand


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 25, 2016)

svk said:


> There was some smack talk on here lately about some other 60 cc saw beating a 562 head to head by a significant margin. Well at the saw races in the stock class a 2260 and 562 finished 1-2 after dispatching every other brand


Stock chains?


----------



## svk (Oct 25, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Stock chains?


The 2260 that won had a round ground 20".


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 25, 2016)

I'm assuming there was a 6100 on the mix?


----------



## svk (Oct 25, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> I'm assuming there was a 6100 on the mix?


At least 2, may have been 3 of them.


----------



## SCHallenger (Oct 25, 2016)

svk said:


> A well modded 346 will normally take a 550 due to limitations in the 550's porting so I would give the edge to the 346. Stock the 550 has just a bit more nuts though.
> 
> Although I'd be curious to see how two built the same way from the same builder stack up.
> 
> There was some smack talk on here lately about some other 60 cc saw beating a 562 head to head by a significant margin. Well at the saw races in the stock class a 2260 and 562 finished 1-2 after dispatching every other brand



I was just talking about having some fun with 3 50cc saws modded by 3 different builders. If you take it too seriously, you eliminate the fun part. 

If you took 3 346s, 3 550s, & 3 261s all modded by the same builder, 1 of each would probably beat the other 2. Individual differences in the saws would dictate that. If I made a cut with my 261, then handed it to someone who has a better feel for how to use it, their time will beat mine, probably by a lot. LOL.


----------



## svk (Oct 25, 2016)

SCHallenger said:


> I was just talking about having some fun with 3 50cc saws modded by 3 different builders. If you take it too seriously, you eliminate the fun part.
> 
> If you took 3 346s, 3 550s, & 3 261s all modded by the same builder, 1 of each would probably beat the other 2. Individual differences in the saws would dictate that. If I made a cut with my 261, then handed it to someone who has a better feel for how to use it, their time will beat mine, probably by a lot. LOL.


I'd be up for that all in fun. 

People get a little too worked up over performance. I do enjoy harassing the fan boys though lol.


----------



## Tor R (Oct 26, 2016)

A few more junk saws....I regret I put G system on that 545, putting more junk on an junk saw doesnt make sense


----------



## svk (Oct 26, 2016)

Tor R said:


> A few more junk saws....I regret I put G system on that 545, putting more junk on an junk saw doesnt make sense
> View attachment 533513


I have gone back and forth about buying a 550G and leaving it stock but wasn't sure if I wanted to have more junk in my stable LOL.


----------



## NCstihl (Nov 7, 2016)

I ran the 261 and 550 side by side over about 6 hours set up exactly the same with 18" bars and Oregon chisel chain. I have been a Stihl guy for 30 years but the 550 and, later the 372 have places in my shop. I like the 550 better than the 261. Smoother with maybe a bit of an edge in power to the Husky. But the 261 is a very nice 50cc saw. The 261 feels more natural to start and run but the Husky feels better in the cut and at the end of the day.


----------



## NCstihl (Nov 7, 2016)

By the way I currently have several Stihls, 056 (2 of them), a 362, a 461 and a 170. I have several Huskys: the 550xp, 2 372XPs, one stock and the other an HD, ported and muffler modded, a 394 being modded to a 395. The saw is that gets the most use? The 170. Use it for everything around the house, limbing, trimming, cutting 4x and 6x deck posts, cleaning up minor storm damage and trimming my wife's roses. She doesn't ask me to do stuff when she hears a saw lift off. Also, do not try this at home (Bubba), it is for professionals only: I have a throwaway bar and chain that I use on roots I can't get with my sawzall. Gotta clean the heck out if it but it works better than the sawzall. Okay, for you purists, that is the only saw that intentionally goes in the dirt. My favorite at the moment is the ported 372 but the little 550 is not far behind and ahead of time the Stihl 261, which I sold.


----------



## Dieseldash (Nov 17, 2016)

Well I pulled the trigger on a nice used 346XP NE. A member on this site hooked me up. That 346xp is an impressive little saw. I reminds me of an angry little beaver. Looks like it is gonna fit my needs just fine. It's got a 16" Tsumura bar and .325 stihl chain, new piston and rings. Thanks for all the opinions and info gents. I'm sure one of those fancy new computer controlled saws will find its way to my shed some day. I can see how almost everyone says the 346 is the best 50cc class saw of all time. 

Obligatory pics of my new toy:


----------



## superw6 (Nov 20, 2016)

. Picked up this junker Friday [emoji3] . Got 1.5 tanks of fuel through in the snow today and it runs perfect! Uncles 545 I got him last year is in the shop for its bog-stall issue


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SCHallenger (Nov 20, 2016)

NCstihl said:


> I ran the 261 and 550 side by side over about 6 hours set up exactly the same with 18" bars and Oregon chisel chain. I have been a Stihl guy for 30 years but the 550 and, later the 372 have places in my shop. I like the 550 better than the 261. Smoother with maybe a bit of an edge in power to the Husky. But the 261 is a very nice 50cc saw. The 261 feels more natural to start and run but the Husky feels better in the cut and at the end of the day.



Very interesting & nicely put commentary!


----------



## svk (Nov 20, 2016)

[QUOTE="superw6, post: 6055377]Uncles 545 I got him last year is in the shop for its bog-stall issue


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
Nice looking "G"!

What mix ratio was he running in it?


----------



## superw6 (Nov 21, 2016)

Three cans of Husqvarna premixed, Stihl , echo red armour all at 50:1 and my Motul 40:1 91 octane. Acted up from new but he didn't take it back till now. Has had at least 10-12 tanks through it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## svk (Nov 21, 2016)

superw6 said:


> Three cans of Husqvarna premixed, Stihl , echo red armour all at 50:1 and my Motul 40:1 91 octane. Acted up from new but he didn't take it back till now. Has had at least 10-12 tanks through it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok definitely something more serious. 

Mine isn't a fan of 32:1, runs like a top on 40:1


----------



## venture (Nov 21, 2016)

Dieseldash said:


> I'm all shook up and need some help. I went to my local dealer this week with intent ( boss lady was on board) to buy a 550xp or 545 with auto tune. I want a nice pro grade 50cc class light weight saw. Didn't see any on the shelf so asked if they could order one in. They said they'd had nothing but problems with the husky auto tunes and told me all kinds of horror stories. I've read a bunch of good reviews online so I was a bit surprised. This is the closest dealer to me and they sell mostly Stihls but carry Husky, and Echo. I generally like dealing with them. He showed me the ms261 c-m and said they'd had much better luck with that saw, it felt OK but I know nothing about it. I'm mostly a Husky/ Jonsered fan and don't know what route to take. I like the idea of the auto tune or M-Tronic because I cut at a bunch of different altitudes and it could simplify life theoretically. But if the electronic widgetry is more of a hassle and needs the dealer to fix all the time then I don't want the hassle. I really wish they still made the 346xp new. I've been looking at finding a used one but a nice 346xp ne is usually pushing $400 plus which is awfully close to a new 545.
> 
> I'm out in Colorado live on the front range but usually cut on a few properties from 9-10k feet but it would be nice to have one saw I didn't need to tune when using it down at 5000' or when I'm at out in MN. I've got a couple 70cc class saws and a Jonsered 2245 that I've been quite impressed with for a little 45cc limbing saw. When we are up cutting I generally take 4 saws with because time is critical and I can't be messing around going down into town to get parts or repairs, 2 hours plus each way.
> 
> ...


I have a 550xp best running 50 cc saw I have run . Light too ,dont listen to everything you here . Mine is 3 yrs old


----------



## Dave27483 (Nov 22, 2016)

I have a friend that owns a tree company in my town and they have 5x 550s and they happen to be there most used saws, I service all there saws for them and they really have been faultless little saws
we have found the two 261s that they had were also good but they had weak clutch bearings in comparison and none of the climbers liked the 261 over the 550 for climbing with, and all the guys swear the 550s have more power despite being equal on paper
I feel that since the release of the AT saws they have copped a fair bit of bad review but I have personally never had or seen any major issues with them and I even owned a early 2011 562


----------



## svk (Nov 22, 2016)

Dave27483 said:


> I feel that since the release of the AT saws they have copped a fair bit of bad review but I have personally never had or seen any major issues with them and I even owned a early 2011 562


Most certainly they put out a few AT doozies earlier on but many folks including myself have had excellent luck. And like I have said in other threads (or may have said earlier in this thread as well), half of the people talking smack about AT are other brand fanboys who haven't even owned one.


----------



## TBS (Nov 22, 2016)

It's like any other first run production model there are problems along the way because they can only test so much in the prototype stage then it goes into production. Once it gets to the consumer thats when the real testing beings and defects start showing up as people use the product. The Autotune and mtronic systems are the biggest change in chainsaws since the use of computers in the design process. For a dealer to make that big a of a generalization that tells me that they know how to work on the systems or just don't like the idea of a new technology on a saw.

I like what is being done. I'd like to try an Autotune or m-tronic setup on lesser saws like my ryobis just to see how they would work.


----------



## svk (Nov 22, 2016)

Nathan lassley said:


> It's like any other first run production model there are problems along the way because they can only test so much in the prototype stage then it goes into production. Once it gets to the consumer thats when the real testing beings and defects start showing up as people use the product. The Autotune and mtronic systems are the biggest change in chainsaws since the use of computers in the design process. For a dealer to make that big a of a generalization that tells me that they know how to work or just don't like the idea of a new technology on a saw.
> 
> I like what is being done. I'd like to try an Autotune or m-tronic setup on lesser saws like my ryobis just to see how they would work.



Well put. 
On a side note after owning both MT and AT saws its interesting to see the differences. The AT saws fire quicker with the traditional choke but once warm the MT saw is so smooth. My 241 is the smoothest idling/running saw I've ever ran.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 22, 2016)

Nathan lassley said:


> It's like any other first run production model there are problems along the way because they can only test so much



I agree. However the issues continued for too long, I men when was the 562 introduced 2011? The implementation of the these saws was a disaster, Stihl did better, but far from perfect. At least they didn't have to redesign the the cylinder, piston, fuel system, case, crank, bearings, seals, clutch and housing covers, every few months.[emoji12]


----------



## TBS (Nov 22, 2016)

Husqvarna essentially started for scratch with the 545, 550, 555, and 562. Stihl did much more subtle changes but the overall design is similar to older model except for the cover changes.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 23, 2016)

Stihl did things the smart way, the upper management and engineers simply had a better development strategy. Stihl introduced their new models without the electronic controls. This did two things. First it allowed them to see how well each model worked in the field with long standing technology, if their was a failure it had nothing to do with the MT system. They removed that variable. Second, it allowed people who feared change and new technology, time to gain confidence in each model, and assured QC was in older.

Husqvarna did this to a less extent with the 575/576. Early on this model had bearing failures, which was nothing more than that. If that saw had AT on board, everyone including the engineers would be wondering if the AT system played a part. Besides the fact the AT 576 isn't a popular model, we sure haven't seen the ongoing drama with it. 

This is pure speculation on my part, but my thoughts are. The big wigs within Husqvarna pushed products out the door against the advice of some within the company. I bet the big guys still blame those people who told them exactly what was going to happen. From the design, tooling, bad parts from suppliers to regular QC issues, the saw simply wasn't ready for mass production. 

IMHO in the end Husqvarna forced out a completely new platform with a completely new technology, before anything was ready. I mean do you really think Husqvarna wanted you to have to set high idled every time you go to start the saw? I think not.

Again I know it sounds like I'm bashing Husqvarna, I am not! I'm just stating it how I see it.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## TBS (Nov 23, 2016)

That is another thing that is rarely mentioned and that is very real possibility. Big wigs wanted it out there before it was ready. 

You can't always buy out your competition.


----------



## svk (Nov 23, 2016)

Nathan lassley said:


> That is another thing that is rarely mentioned and that is very real possibility. Big wigs wanted it out there before it was ready.
> 
> You can't always buy out your competition.


Yep I'd have to say you are right. 

Remember OMC and their Ficht technology? They were a total disaster and guaranteed the ultimate failure of the company. And unfortunately the average customer lost ten grand versus a few hundred.


----------



## Chris-PA (Nov 23, 2016)

The 545/550/555/562 were not the first AT saws were they? They certainly were not the first strato saws. I think their problems have more to do with packaging, attempts to make a saw that was very small, light and powerful, and general quality control issues. There's no excuse for the transfer cover seals - it's just a gasket. 

In general, my hunch is that few engineers at the saw manufacturers knew much about carbs - after all they buy these from other companies. It appears that they may not have fully taken into account the consequences of reducing unburned fuel in regard to cooling, especially in a compact high performance saw.

Also, the "more advanced" AT system used in the Husqvarnas is a much more complicated control scheme. Remember that the AT/MT system has no sensor other than rpm and the lean out test. To do a lean out test you momentarily lean the mixture and watch the rpm results, and from that you can tell if you were too lean or too rich. But you must be able to see the results clearly, and that is difficult if the rpm is varying for other reasons. I understood that the first versions of AT only controlled full throttle mixture, but now they can control the mixture at any throttle position. 

Next, apparently they can control the idle speed - I have tried to figure out how they do this, but the only real possibility is by controlling idle mixture - and this is a potential problem because you are mixing two different things. Let's say that you have to adjust the idle to a lean setting to get the idle speed correct. Now suddenly the throttle plate opens. It's too fast to adjust for the moving throttle, and since the throttle plate is moving you cannot do a lean out test anyway - so you have to just leave the mixture where it is, or maybe just take a guess and arbitrarily enrich the mixture for acceleration. But what if this is not the correct mixture for acceleration? Then you get a bog. There is no way for the system to tell.

I've been working on carbs of various types for a long time, and I really cannot stand a fuel system that is inapable of controlling the mixture like the conventional saw carbs (nor an engine that misfires), so I applaud the attempt to fix this defect. I also find the whole control scheme of AT to be very clever, and elegantly simple. I just wonder if they've attempted to push such a rudimentary control scheme a bit too far.


----------



## albert (Nov 23, 2016)

Your saws misfire? Your carbs. can't control the mixture. That's f'd up. Who works on your saws?


----------



## SCHallenger (Nov 23, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> The 545/550/555/562 were not the first AT saws were they? They certainly were not the first strato saws. I think their problems have more to do with packaging, attempts to make a saw that was very small, light and powerful, and general quality control issues. There's no excuse for the transfer cover seals - it's just a gasket.
> 
> In general, my hunch is that few engineers at the saw manufacturers knew much about carbs - after all they buy these from other companies. It appears that they may not have fully taken into account the consequences of reducing unburned fuel in regard to cooling, especially in a compact high performance saw.
> 
> ...



IIRC, the 576XP & the MS441 were the first two. I'm not sure which was actually first, or if they appeared simultaneously.


----------



## Chris-PA (Nov 23, 2016)

albert said:


> Your saws misfire? Your carbs. can't control the mixture. That's f'd up. Who works on your saws?


Your saws misfire too, you just don't understand what is happening. What do you think 4-stroking is? It is a misfire from a mixture that is to rich to burn. 

You are correct- the carbs cannot control the mixture because that is how they were designed. A normal carb uses an air corrector jet to keep the mixture correct, but this would not work with the all position carbs, so they just got rid of it.


----------



## albert (Nov 23, 2016)

Please don't tell me what I don't understand.
What do you use your saws for, piss revving, or cutting wood? 
Also, I think I explained to you about air bleeds and all position carbs awhile back. Seems like every other post of yours gripes about shity saw carbs. 
Also you should bone up on AT systems and how they operate, before you spout off misinformation about sensors or lack of. 
By the way, does it bother you that most fuel injected vehicals will misfire if pissed revved out of gear?


----------



## Chris-PA (Nov 23, 2016)

albert said:


> Please don't tell me what I don't understand.
> What do you use your saws for, piss revving, or cutting wood?
> Also, I think I explained to you about air bleeds and all position carbs awhile back. Seems like every other post of yours gripes about shity saw carbs.
> Also you should bone up on AT systems and how they operate, before you spout off misinformation about sensors or lack of.
> By the way, does it bother you that most fuel injected vehicals will misfire if pissed revved out of gear?


Lol, simply making statements with no rational explanation is worthless. Kind of arrogant to think people should just accept you word. 

Feel free to explain the function of air corrector jets on fix jet, fixed venturi carbs, but I studied their operation many decades ago so don't expect me to let slide any BS. 

Also feel free to correct any errors in my explanation of how AT systems work - put up or shut up. 

Under what rpm does this supposed 4-stroke high rpm efi misfire occur? What is the mechanism and how do you distinguish it from the engine management system limiting rpm? And of what relevance is it compared to a chainsaw which will misfire with only a slight increase in rpm that happens regularly in everyday operation?


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 23, 2016)

It is quite arrogant to think any of us understand more than the engineers working within any of these manufacturers. Get over yourselves gentleman. Their is way more to this than engineering, that's likely not the real issue.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 23, 2016)

SCHallenger said:


> IIRC, the 576XP & the MS441 were the first two. I'm not sure which was actually first, or if they appeared simultaneously.


I believe the AT576 was on the market first, the MTronic 441 fallowed soon after.


----------



## Chris-PA (Nov 23, 2016)

Andyshine77 said:


> It is quite arrogant to think any of us understand more than the engineers working within any of these manufacturers. Get over yourselves gentleman. Their is way more to this than engineering, that's likely not the real issue.


As an engineer, I would say don't put the engineers on that high of a pedestal as it is very rarely warranted. Nor would I blame all of the issues on them either.


----------



## CoreyB (Nov 23, 2016)

Part of Husqvarna's problem is being so arrogant that they try and blame the customer instead of fixing the problems . I have had to argue with them more than once on a dressing problem. to many times bad or wrong mix is the excuse .
We had one saw burn up in the shop while the mechanic was trying to diagnose the problem . Husqvarna tried telling us it was fuel. however first thing we do is dump the fuel and use the husqvarna canned fuel. it was an air leak. needless to saw it hate having to argue with a company because they don't believe that their products can have problems. every manufacturer has a % of QC fails.


----------



## svk (Nov 23, 2016)

Andyshine77 said:


> It is quite arrogant to think any of us understand more than the engineers working within any of these manufacturers. Get over yourselves gentleman. Their is way more to this than engineering, that's likely not the real issue.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


Yes their engineers know more than probably 99.9 percent of outside folks. But they are often given imperfect conditions and demanded to create a product that is expected to be perfect. Happens all the time.

I.e. If R and D told upper management they need 4 months and X dollars to do something right. Management gives them 10 percent of budget and tells them to get the final product put out in a month. And if they don't get it completed they can expect to find a new job. Shortcuts are taken and you get the result of a OMC Ficht or early AT. Or as an older example the 350 Oldsmobile diesel with performance so poor that it that literally killed the idea of American made diesel cars forever.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 23, 2016)

svk said:


> Or as an older example the 350 Oldsmobile diesel with performance so poor that it that literally killed the idea of American made diesel cars forever.


 
Had one in a Buick park avenue, replaced the heads every year or so, plus the other common issues, injectors, fuel pumps, glow plugs.[emoji33]


----------



## Rockjock (Nov 23, 2016)

superw6 said:


> My Belleville ,Ontario Stihl--Husqvarna dealer was the same even Before auto tune saws. After going elsewhere for 576xpg I stopped , told him I wanted 50cc heated handle price for both and he refused to even quote 346xpg[emoji35] . Azzhole for sure!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Seeing how Husqvarna has left its dealers out in the cold many have a bias towards them. I am about 2.5 hours from Belleville but we have the same issues here. The moment that husqvarna allowed the big box stores to sell the product the dealers got the raw end of the stick. From Barrie to Toronto Oakville to Oshawa most dealers either closed up shop or just got a different line. Every dealers bread and butter were the homeowner saws from Husqvarna, and the Home Depots, Lowes, Canadian Tire and Giant Tiger began selling them and that was the last straw. Husky makes a good saw, it is the lack of dealer presence that keeps them on the shelfs with the Poulans. We FINALLY found a parts source for Husqvarna and now we can get a sprocket in 10 working days!!!! Insert sarcasm in place of excitement.


----------



## Dieseldash (Nov 24, 2016)

Besides the intake clamp issue Husqvarna got the engineering right from the get go on the 346xp.


----------



## Franny K (Nov 24, 2016)

Rockjock said:


> .............. Every dealers bread and butter were the homeowner saws from Husqvarna,..............



Not every. I suspect the drive out and pick up a riding mower service it then return it or stuff along those lines are more bread and butter than dealing with the chainsaw sales. What you state that I quoted may well be true for your local dealer. Chainsaws are certainly not the biggest footprint in the local shop. Even the Stihl dealer nearby I use more than any other seems the chainsaw section is a bit smaller than all of the other Stihl devices. They also sell back up generators, Normal gasoline powered generators, push and riding mowers Perhaps Ferris brand, and likely another product line I can't think of off hand.


----------



## Rockjock (Nov 24, 2016)

Franny K said:


> Not every. I suspect the drive out and pick up a riding mower service it then return it or stuff along those lines are more bread and butter than dealing with the chainsaw sales. What you state that I quoted may well be true for your local dealer. Chainsaws are certainly not the biggest footprint in the local shop. Even the Stihl dealer nearby I use more than any other seems the chainsaw section is a bit smaller than all of the other Stihl devices. They also sell back up generators, Normal gasoline powered generators, push and riding mowers Perhaps Ferris brand, and likely another product line I can't think of off hand.



I would have to disagree. Our saw section is smaller than the whole sales floor BUT it is a item that is sold year round. In this area all the pro saws are pretty much Stihl, so that leaves the homeowner saws that these ex dealers had to sell which is a huge issue when you have to fulfill a minimum order of saws only to have the big box sores sell them for much less than you could. Sadly husqvarna did not care for these dealers and left them out in the cold. 2-3 weeks for a part?! IF this was a person that used this saw for work, to put food on the table they would surely starve. We give great service in the saw dept, that translates to people wanting to buy a Walker, Ventrac, Wright etc.. it all adds up to a successful business.. all from a simple chainsaw and parts. It maybe different in your part of the world but here it is just the way it is.


----------



## old CB (Nov 26, 2016)

Just found this thread.

I bought a 550xp in 2015. It often bogs and dies on acceleration, which I figured might pass once it was broke in. Many tanks of fuel later—still the same issues. Plus, when you shut down to refuel in hot weather, it won’t restart until allowed to cool. Every other saw I own I can tune to run right in any weather, any conditions. I use my saws professionally every day, and don’t have time to fuss with a balky machine. Many people have great results with this saw—their reviews are why I bought one. But mine’s been a dog.

I finally found time to take the saw to my dealer (who I suspect is the OP’s dealer, as I live uphill from Boulder), expecting they could adjust something and fix my issue. They said there’s no adjustment to make, but I could leave the saw for them to maybe diagnose. They had a 2-week backlog, and I couldn’t be without the saw that long and maybe longer if it needed work. (I was recuperating from a back injury and my 372 was more than I wanted to carry when working in small wood.)

A friend bought a 550xp and has had exactly the same issues with her saw. As has another neighbor who has a 545 AT—no go on a hot restart. I think our 6-8,000’ elevation magnifies the problems.

My solution . . . I bought a 346xp non-runner (scored p&c) on eBay & rebuilt it. Then bought another for a backup. Haven’t had the 550 off the floor since. I LOVE the 346.

Diesel, you made the right choice.


----------



## newforest (Nov 26, 2016)

Great thread. It's all about your dealer, and they are far from all the same.

The dealer my family has purchased from for probably 30 years still refuses to sell Auto-Tunes. It was just one of several key points that led me to change to a dealer 70 miles away instead of only 20 miles away.

I love my 346XP and look forward to getting it back in action. I wonder how many more years can pass before it gets very, very tough to find a lightly used one.

I bought a 550XP this year and so far so very good at the maybe 150 hour mark. The Auto-Tune system has a few quirks (starting) but they have been very minor and easy to adjust to.

I also bought my first M-Tronic saw this year, and that has been a disaster, even in the 5th model year. A $1,400 disaster, including plenty of the dealer and the distributor trying to place the blame on me; the Stihl system can easily do that just as the Husqy system can. I will update that thread soon, the "1400" saw, as I call it, is back in to the shop after only 60 hours. It should have been hooked up to the diagnostic system the day after I bought it, but the businesses involved all seem to be cheapskates.

Someone asked how small dealers can work with these new partially electronic saws. They do have diagnostic ports for this purpose that use a USB cable. I am looking forward to the day the diagnostic software 'escapes' from the corporate control and I can look at what is happening inside my saw on my own laptop. One friend suggested eventually I will run across a logger who knows-a-guy who knows-a-guy that will have the hook-up. Maybe WikiLeaks will strike a blow for saw Freedom here. I would also note that I have heard the country of Canada and the company of John Deere were tangled up in a major lawsuit over the idea of proprietary contents of equipment not being accessible to the purchaser of the said equipment. Farmers aren't too happy with tractors they can't fix themselves. I need to dig into the results of that battle.

I have plenty of experience owning and maintaining a 1980s vehicle with one of the first examples of a fuel-injected engine. I have seen an engine shut down by simple road grit on a key ground point and also by a well-aged heat sink no longer transferring sufficient heat away from a key chip, to name just a few simple fuel injection bugs. When I was first looking at the M-Tronics, I asked a dealer how much an extra "module" would cost, so I could just swap out in the field if necessary. He couldn't tell me. He also suggested that the "module" never fails. Uhh-huhh, sure.

Be that as it may, the "module" does depend on input signals from somewhere. On M-Tronics, it is a certain key solenoid I believe. So there are new little parts inside a saw to consider and possibly maintain. And then the M-Tronic "module" or the Auto-Tune whatever-they-call-it are also dependent on the manufacturing quality of the parts they are connected to. Did that carb jet have an exactly perfect tolerance on the exact diameter of the jet or was that jet supplied by a sub-contractor in a foreign country while the quality inspector was on the take somehow? The "module" doesn't know. (I suspect my M-Tronic lemon could suffer from a poorly manufactured carb making it run far richer than the M-Tron thinks it is running, but I have no way to find out, only my dealer can.)


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 27, 2016)

The 550 does in fact have a L speed needle that helps if not completely resolve the stumble.



Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## old CB (Nov 27, 2016)

Andyshine77 said:


> The 550 does in fact have a L speed needle that helps if not completely resolve the stumble."
> 
> A low-speed needle would seem like the necessary fix.
> 
> ...


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 27, 2016)

Well I don't find Honda's hard to work on. A Honda's still has an internal combustion engine, the same basic principles apply to get one running, you need fuel, spark at the right time and compression. The AT system likely isn't the problem, the carbs have had on going problems. But to be honest air leaks with these saws is a common issue. People for some reason hear the word electronic, and instantly forget the basics. If the saw passes a vacuum/pressure test, if it has good compression, you have a carb problem nothing more.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rockjock (Nov 27, 2016)

newforest said:


> Great thread. It's all about your dealer, and they are far from all the same.
> 
> The dealer my family has purchased from for probably 30 years still refuses to sell Auto-Tunes. It was just one of several key points that led me to change to a dealer 70 miles away instead of only 20 miles away.
> 
> ...



I can not comment on the Husqvarna but in Stihland...


The software is out there and any dealer can buy the MDG1 and then sell it to you. Pretty easy stuff. I have it on my personal laptop and it does not ask for a dealer number or secret code. The dealer who refuses to get with the times is doomed. I have had several people contact me with a " lemon " and the answer is quite simple... find a new dealer. Also the Module you speak of is the coil. I had a MS 241cm that had an issue where it would stumble when you would remove it from the cut.. it was the solenoid in that Issue. It has been stated this is not the rocket science it is a chainsaw the basic principals apply here. Any tech worth his salt can repair one.


----------



## svk (Nov 27, 2016)

Rockjock said:


> *I have had several people contact me with a " lemon " and the answer is quite simple... find a new dealer.* Also the Module you speak of is the coil. I had a MS 241cm that had an issue where it would stumble when you would remove it from the cut.. it was the solenoid in that Issue. It has been stated this is not the rocket science it is a chainsaw the basic principals apply here. Any tech worth his salt can repair one.


Agree. How many times have we seen folks post up on here with AT problems that one dealer repeatedly couldn't fix and another one did on the first try!

When I bought my 241 the usual Stihl dealer I went through didn't even know that model existed. I went out of my way to buy one elsewhere so if a MT issue comes up they might even be able to fix it!


----------



## superw6 (Jan 11, 2017)

Andyshine77 said:


> The 550 does in fact have a L speed needle that helps if not completely resolve the stumble.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk




Got Uncles 545 back today for the 2nd time[emoji53]. First trip in for bog -hesitation off idle showed no errors in auto tune so they reset to default an said try again. Ran over full tank of gas and same issue as when it was new. Picked it up yesterday with new AT7 carb and can of Husqvarna pre mixed fuel(just in case). Same issue so dumped tank , installed premixed fuel and still the same[emoji35]. Screw in video was out 3/4 so tried 1/4 turn out than 1/4 turn in[emoji37]no better. Not consistent in running but to me seems like computer try's to compensate for air leak as it runs different from limbing to blocking 16" stuff. Can it have air leak but not big enough for error? I would bet money no pressure test done[emoji849]yet. Back it goes , it's 2015 model and my perfect 550xpg is 2016 [emoji856]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## svk (Jan 11, 2017)

superw6 said:


> Got Uncles 545 back today for the 2nd time[emoji53]. First trip in for bog -hesitation off idle showed no errors in auto tune so they reset to default an said try again. Ran over full tank of gas and same issue as when it was new. Picked it up yesterday with new AT7 carb and can of Husqvarna pre mixed fuel(just in case). Same issue so dumped tank , installed premixed fuel and still the same[emoji35]. Screw in video was out 3/4 so tried 1/4 turn out than 1/4 turn in[emoji37]no better. Not consistent in running but to me seems like computer try's to compensate for air leak as it runs different from limbing to blocking 16" stuff. Can it have air leak but not big enough for error? I would bet money no pressure test done[emoji849]yet. Back it goes , it's 2015 model and my perfect 550xpg is 2016 [emoji856]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Try a different dealer?


----------



## Andyshine77 (Jan 11, 2017)

It can absolutely have an air leak and not throw a code. After checking for codes the saw should have been vacuum/pressure tested. The dealer is incompetent.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## axeandwedge (Jan 12, 2017)

I had an early 562 xp with very similar symptoms,took it back to the dealer,ran a diagnostic check on it seemed OK,
Bought it home ran good for a few minute's then back to its old self again,
I then heard of a guy who had played around with these saws and he removed a bit of material off the semi circle on the front butterfly with a file and had good results.
I thought well what the heck ,at the very worst I'm up for a new butterfly.
So I tried his method and the idle speed increased a bit as you would expect and no hesitation whatsoever.
I'M not saying this is your problem but it sure worked for me.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk


----------



## ncpete (Jan 12, 2017)

axeandwedge said:


> I had an early 562 xp with very similar symptoms,took it back to the dealer,ran a diagnostic check on it seemed OK,
> Bought it home ran good for a few minute's then back to its old self again,
> I then heard of a guy who had played around with these saws and he removed a bit of material off the semi circle on the front butterfly with a file and had good results.
> I thought well what the heck ,at the very worst I'm up for a new butterfly.
> ...


A picture of that fix may be quite useful?


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 12, 2017)

The last couple 550s I messed with had all kinds of idle and throttle hesitation issues. I could not tune them out with the hidden needle. IIRC, I did end up notching the throttle plate. It's been a good long while though.


----------



## Chris-PA (Jan 12, 2017)

I think this is making sense. This system cannot adjust the mixture when the throttle plate is moving, or any time when you cannot do a lean out test. The lean out test momentarily leans the mixture and then watches what happens to the rpm, so you cannot do it if you cannot distinguish the results of the lean out from other rpm changes. Plus I don't think the tests are done often enough to respond to rapid throttle openings. So then the only strategy is to leave the mixture where it was. 

However, from what I understand they are also controlling the idle rpm. I've never gotten a picture of how this is done, but the only real possibilities are by changing timing advance or mixture, and I suspect it done by mixture. But now you've linked two different things, and the mixture that gives the right idle rpm may not be right for acceleration/throttle response. Especially if the idle mixture ends up lean. If that happens when you open the throttle it will be too lean for good throttle response, although I'm assuming these carbs have an accelerator pump, but maybe the pump shot isn't enough. 

If you add an opening in the throttle plate that is away from the idle fuel outlets it isn't going to pull more fuel, rather it will lean out the idle mixture as well as raising idle speed. The system will have to enrich the idle to compensate, and then when you accelerate the mixture will be at a relatively richer setting and not bog. 

I could maybe imagine a similar problem if the idle mixture were set too rich for proper acceleration, but this seem less likely.


----------



## Jedifusen (Jan 12, 2017)

I have been very happy with mine 550XP for one year - no problems . . !
Reed the manuel and and do exactly what it tells.
Please note the following if you are buying a new 550XP:


----------



## superw6 (Jan 12, 2017)

I just want to smash it with an axe[emoji35]. I'm a HVAC service technician with way to much overtime and no ME time. Auto tune should make my life easier! Might flog this pos and get him Stihl [emoji35]. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 12, 2017)

Chris-PA said:


> I think this is making sense. This system cannot adjust the mixture when the throttle plate is moving, or any time when you cannot do a lean out test. The lean out test momentarily leans the mixture and then watches what happens to the rpm, so you cannot do it if you cannot distinguish the results of the lean out from other rpm changes. Plus I don't think the tests are done often enough to respond to rapid throttle openings. So then the only strategy is to leave the mixture where it was.
> 
> However, from what I understand they are also controlling the idle rpm. I've never gotten a picture of how this is done, but the only real possibilities are by changing timing advance or mixture, and I suspect it done by mixture. But now you've linked two different things, and the mixture that gives the right idle rpm may not be right for acceleration/throttle response. Especially if the idle mixture ends up lean. If that happens when you open the throttle it will be too lean for good throttle response, although I'm assuming these carbs have an accelerator pump, but maybe the pump shot isn't enough.
> 
> ...


These saws have not always done this. The system is capable of working great.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 12, 2017)

Jedifusen said:


> I have been very happy with mine 550XP for one year - no problems . . !
> Reed the manuel and and do exactly what it tells.
> Please note the following if you are buying a new 550XP:


No manual reading is going to cure these carb problem.


----------



## Chris-PA (Jan 12, 2017)

blsnelling said:


> These saws have not always done this. The system is capable of working great.


I'm sure it is, and I would not expect every unit to behave the same way. The exact fuel mixture needed to give a certain idle speed is going vary by unit and conditions, and so will the results when you pop open the throttle at whatever mixture that ends up to be. 

In general I don't like the idea of using idle fuel mixture to control idle speed, *if *that is what they are doing, because mixture has other effects.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 12, 2017)

Stihl MTronic carbs have an idle speed adjustment. It's hidden under the solenoid and not accessible.


----------



## Dieseldash (Jan 12, 2017)

Wonder if there's a way to convert these 550's and 545's to a standard conventional carb and get rid of the electronic widgetry? My 346xp runs really sweet had it out yesterday earning its keep:


----------



## Chris-PA (Jan 12, 2017)

blsnelling said:


> Stihl MTronic carbs have an idle speed adjustment. It's hidden under the solenoid and not accessible.


I understood they were similar to the first generation AT - I don't recall reading about these types of issues on any of them?


----------



## superw6 (Jan 12, 2017)

Dealer calling Husqvarna tomorrow. Told him I would pay difference to upgrade to 550 if that's what needs to happen for good saw[emoji52].


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## superw6 (Feb 11, 2017)

superw6 said:


> Got Uncles 545 back today for the 2nd time[emoji53]. First trip in for bog -hesitation off idle showed no errors in auto tune so they reset to default an said try again. Ran over full tank of gas and same issue as when it was new. Picked it up yesterday with new AT7 carb and can of Husqvarna pre mixed fuel(just in case). Same issue so dumped tank , installed premixed fuel and still the same[emoji35]. Screw in video was out 3/4 so tried 1/4 turn out than 1/4 turn in[emoji37]no better. Not consistent in running but to me seems like computer try's to compensate for air leak as it runs different from limbing to blocking 16" stuff. Can it have air leak but not big enough for error? I would bet money no pressure test done[emoji849]yet. Back it goes , it's 2015 model and my perfect 550xpg is 2016 [emoji856]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. 
4 trips to dealer and this was number 4 after " software update" to new carb installed 3rd trip. Told them twice it acted like air leak and auto tune always trying to adjust lol. 6 cookies cut from 20 log and this happens [emoji23]


----------



## superw6 (Feb 11, 2017)

the cure for hesitation , stalling was to mount bar upside down . Saw now works [emoji108]. That and putting 2016 saw on 2015 bar and chain lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Finnlogger (Feb 11, 2017)

My colleague found a permanent solution to ALL 550 problems he had! Study these photos for the simple diy fix, all 20 tons of it...


----------



## Dieseldash (Feb 11, 2017)

Finnlogger said:


> My colleague found a permanent solution to ALL 550 problems he had! Study these photos for the simple diy fix, all 20 tons of it...



Dangggggggg!

I don't think anyone has crushed a 346xp "on purpose" with a track hoe.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 11, 2017)

Some people have money to piss away I guess. I would have just fixed it.


----------



## TBS (Feb 11, 2017)

Dieseldash said:


> Wonder if there's a way to convert these 550's and 545's to a standard conventional carb and get rid of the electronic widgetry? My 346xp runs really sweet had it out yesterday earning its keep:
> 
> View attachment 550223



It can be done.


Finnlogger said:


> My colleague found a permanent solution to ALL 550 problems he had! Study these photos for the simple diy fix, all 20 tons of it...



Jeezzz


----------



## TBS (Feb 11, 2017)

I might have to get one of these p.i.a. feedback saws and figure out a conversion.


----------



## axeandwedge (Feb 12, 2017)

Pity to see this saw wasted like that,I had a bad experience with a secondhand MS441 I bought off an ebayer who buys broken down saws and supposedly fixes them.
After some considerable cost I rebuilt the saw ,I can't tell you what I refer to this saw as on account of the language being so bad.
At the end of the day the saw was not going to get the better of me.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk


----------



## SCHallenger (Feb 12, 2017)

Nathan lassley said:


> I might have to get one of these p.i.a. feedback saws and figure out a conversion.



That just might start an interesting business for you!


----------



## TBS (Feb 12, 2017)

I keep kicking around the idea of buying the whole system for one just to see what can be done with them.


----------



## Allar (Feb 1, 2020)

I have a 2017 Husqvarna 545 with the hesitation off idle. It already had a carb replaced in late 2018 but now the same issue is back.
I feel like just getting rid of that turd and never ever getting another autotune saw.  Really, really disappointed.


----------



## Huskybill (Feb 1, 2020)

Finnlogger said:


> My colleague found a permanent solution to ALL 550 problems he had! Study these photos for the simple diy fix, all 20 tons of it...


That’s what I would do and box it up and send it to Husqvarna in Sweden to the CEO.
CEOs love to hear feed back.


----------



## Huskybill (Feb 1, 2020)

Finnlogger said:


> My colleague found a permanent solution to ALL 550 problems he had! Study these photos for the simple diy fix, all 20 tons of it...


That’s one way to check the squish? Lol


----------



## Deleted member 117362 (Feb 1, 2020)

Allar said:


> I have a 2017 Husqvarna 545 with the hesitation off idle. It already had a carb replaced in late 2018 but now the same issue is back.
> I feel like just getting rid of that turd and never ever getting another autotune saw.  Really, really disappointed.


Better solution is to find a dealer with software, that knows what they are doing. Have seen and own one, that only needed a new spark plug to solve issue.


----------



## DaddyFlip (Feb 1, 2020)

Ryan'smilling said:


> One thing I like about this site is that now a guy can mostly live without a local dealer. If I were in your shoes, I'd have no problem buying a 545 or 550 from one of the sponsors here. They can often beat local prices too.
> 
> One thing with the autotune saws, along similar lines: if you're local dealer is reluctant to sell them and has had bad luck with them, they may be a poor choice to take them in for troubleshooting. I gather they're a little different that a regular carbed machine, and having someone who understands the new technology is probably helpful.



This right here. If a salesman/dealer can't figure out how to sell you what you want then you need to shop elsewhere, no matter the brand.


----------



## Allar (Feb 4, 2020)

Duce said:


> Better solution is to find a dealer with software, that knows what they are doing. Have seen and own one, that only needed a new spark plug to solve issue.


I don't think that's the issue around here. Someday it just acts like a turd and the other day ( today) it ran like a champ.. It was -5c outside today.
I love that saw but when it fells on it's ass when accelerating, i just can't work with it. I'm out of warranty now and they charge for connecting it to the pc etc, nothing's free

Also... i notice a slight rpm change when tipping down the saw to cut..... hopefully it aint air leak


----------



## DaddyFlip (Feb 4, 2020)

Allar said:


> I don't think that's the issue around here. Someday it just acts like a turd and the other day ( today) it ran like a champ.. It was -5c outside today.
> I love that saw but when it fells on it's ass when accelerating, i just can't work with it. I'm out of warranty now and they charge for connecting it to the pc etc, nothing's free
> 
> Also... i notice a slight rpm change when tipping down the saw to cut..... hopefully it aint air leak



I know this 545 doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my hands, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is powerful and reliable. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss.


----------



## Allar (Feb 5, 2020)

DaddyFlip said:


> I know this 545 doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my hands, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is powerful and reliable. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss.
> View attachment 795171


 I'm not sure that i understand what you're trying to say


----------

