# Stihl rapid duro chain



## Gngyoung (Jun 24, 2012)

I thought I would share my experience. I had a husky 353 for 7 years until a month ago I burned it up cutting a stump into chunks for burning. It overheated and scored the cylinder. A sad end to a good little chainsaw. So I went bigger and bought a stihl ms362 with an 18 bar and a second rollomatc ES bar for the rapid duro carbide tipped chain. One of the reasons I went this way was because of the RD or rapid duro chain and it's videos showing people cutting through dirty wood. So, given I have over 50 stumps to cut up, I thought the carbide tipped chain was the way to go.

Well, today I hauled out the new chain having broken in the saw on soft wood and a steel chain. I went back to the stump that killed the husqvarna and stuck in. First cut went okay. It cut with loads of power and the wood chips were a decent size. Then a second cut. I started and the saw bit in. I thought, this is good news and had a smile on my face. Then I saw a few sparks and immediately the wood chips turned to dust followed 5 seconds later by slight smoking of the bar oil! I immediately stopped to inspect the saw and found it was idling nicely and accelerating nicely. Great saw! Then I went on to finish my cut and eventually made it through however after I looked at the carbide teeth and almost in disbelief the tips were almost all chewed off like little slivers had been cut from a wooden tooth with a pocket knife. I couldn't believe my eyes! The rapid duro was dead or almost ruined permanently in less than two cuts! I'm still in a slight state of disbelief. It can be re-shaped but almost half of the tooth I'd damaged. 

Tomorrow I will have it re sharpened but I think the dreams of cutting stumps with a carbide chain are gone. I will just have to return back to crucifying a steel chain and sharpen it often because the carbide chains don't sharpen so easily, even with the EZE-lap diamond sharpener tool that you use with a drill. The rapid duro chain sells for $135 here in Canada. 

So, what is the moral of the fable? Stick to steel chains for dirty cutting. That rapid duro chain cost as much as 4 steel chains and lasts two cuts in what looked like a relatively mud free pine stump root. Wow...... Hopefully I saved someone else a little money here......


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## T0RN4D0 (Jun 24, 2012)

Did you check if hut a small stone or something, judging from the sparks it wasn't just wood. No chain will chew through rocks, carbide or not. And on the other hand, if you don't cut rocks normal chain will do. As you figured out, not worth the money or the effort to sharpen.


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## SteveH (Jun 24, 2012)

Yeah, those sparks speak to your hitting something buried in the stump. Could be stones. For certain, it wasn't the pure wood causing sparks. I did a number on two RSC chains a couple days ago when I was cutting right at the base of a tree. A foot down inside there, several stones were buried in the trunk. This is not so unusual. I gave up and used the tractor to push the root ball off the road into a ditch [the tree had blown down last winter in a storm, then earlier this week it cut loose from the ground up about a hundred yards and some more wind must've rocked it some...came all the way down onto the county road]. 

I normally keep a few almost-worn-out or otherwise screwed up chains for cutting stumps. If I total them, they were about gone anyhow. I have never used your type chain so cannot really give any advice about them. 

Over the decades, I have probably, just off the top of my head, hit a couple dozen rocks inside of trunks and maybe five times hit a piece of old fence or a nail or, once, a bullet. Good luck.


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## jus2fat (Jun 24, 2012)

Yep..ya live and learn..don't buy expensive chain for cutting stumps.

Use old, near end of life chains for stumps and fence rows..etc.

J2F


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## SilverKing (Jun 24, 2012)

I bought a rapid duro chain for an 028 a few years back to cut old loader tires for water troughs.I told the dealer the tires had light wire in the sidewalls,but he said the chain would cut it no problem.Against my better judgement i paid the $55 for a chain .3 seconds into a cut the chain was so dull it wouldnt even cut into plain rubber.Of course a round file wont even scratch a carbide chain,so i threw a $55 chain in the sink hole.Way over rated,and yes they do say they will cut old fence wire ,nails and other saw chain nightmares


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## Stihl Crazy (Jun 24, 2012)

In the last 3 months we have sold over 55 Rapid Duro chains. We sell them for $45 for the 23RD362E and $69 for the 33RD360E in Nova Scotia where the OP lives. The RD is not a chain for every one. We are particular in who we sell to.

The RD3 is not a softwood logging chain. The RD3 is not a run it dull until the job is done chain. The RD3 is not a chain for someone that has any ability to file, its cutting performance is slower than a regular chain.

Push a RD3 when dull and the carbide insert will come off.

We gave out some chain to various types of users to see how well they stood up and what the lifespan was. 

We market the chain to people who cannot file and know that they can't. They love the chain. If they get a load of wood delivered on Sat and dull a normal chain they are done,and we are closed. Most can't even replace a chain. They buy the chain knowing they can block their 5 or 10 cords Sat and Sunday without trouble. 

The other group buying the chain are small firewood operators cutting dirty skidder hauled wood. They get 7-9 cords of dirty wood done per grinding. We get 8-9 grindings per chain.

One thing is imparative with the RD3. Do not run it dull. It will lose cutters when it gets hot. We tell all customers to return when it first feels dull.

55 chains sold, 2 failures from not following our suggestions. The RD3 is a great chain when used properly. 

Would I use one for a stump removal? No, there are better ways to remove stumps.

The problem is not poor chains but rather poor dealers who do not understand their products.


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## Gngyoung (Jun 24, 2012)

Stihl crazy,

Thanks for your unbiased feedback and education. I would like to know where in nova scotia I can order a 55 dollar carbide chain however, given my experience, I am going to have it reground once and try it again in cleaner wood. I will probably not buy another one unless my experience the next time, after regrinding, is considerably better.

It seems that ruining an old chain for stumps alone is the way to go and just refill it often. I don't have any problems sharpening chains and normally get great results with my other chains. Indie try to use the eze-lap round file tool for my drill and it works, even if it is slow. I appreciate the tip about running the chains dull and heat causing silver solder failure. That makes sense now that you've pointed it out to me. I am lucky in that all of the tips are still on the chain so regaining should be possible. I will take it to a specialist shop on kept road in Halifax tomorrow and see if it's recoverable as is.


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## dancan (Jun 24, 2012)

If you're in the city check with cat rental , the JD guys or any of the Stihl dealers first for resharpening because I believe a special wheel is required . I've had 1 experience with the sharpening ''Specialist'' in the past , it was a lesson and I'll leave it at that .


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## Anthony_Va. (Jun 24, 2012)

The best chain for stumping or cutting out fencerows is the RM (semi chisel) Stihl chain. I make my living building fence and have cleared so many miles of old fencerow. I very seldom ruin a chain these days and can make one last as long as anyone can. 

The key is to read the stump. You can always see where the wire has grown into the wood. If it's a woven wire fence you cannot cut between the wires unless you can see the vertical wires in between. Thats where most people get bit. Those vertical stays will grow into the tree and can't be seen. Only cut between the wires if you're tearing out barbed wire fence. I know I kinda got off on a tangent there but thats my fencerow clearing lesson of the day. :msp_tongue:

The carbide chain is best left for other uses. Like I said, get you some semi chisel and be careful where you cut. I've actually cut through wire without even dulling a semi chisel chain, but thats unusual. It can happen though. You even glance a wire with full chisel and you better have a grinder on hand or be ready to file your arms off.


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## sunfish (Jun 24, 2012)

I leave the stumps in the woods...

How bout the 353? Nice little saw and worth fixing!


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## Gngyoung (Jun 24, 2012)

I have found a piston and cylinder kit from Randy's chainsaw repairs and will be rebuilding the husky 353 this week sometime. I now have three saws so I may sell the 353. I have a 1973 mini mac30 that runs like a charm and it's great for limbing. I have the big dog ms362 and so I probably can live without the husky. The kit cost me 85 in parts and I will do the engine work myself. Wonder what a used 353 is worth?


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## imagineero (Jun 25, 2012)

The RD chain has had a pretty bad rep from most people that have used it, breaking off cutters etc. You may like to take a look at the RDR chain that I reviewed earlier this year.

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/188237.htm

I paid nearly $500 for mine, but I understand you can get them for around $200 in the states. They seem to outlast RD chain by about 10:1.

Shaun


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## Zombiechopper (Jun 25, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> The best chain for stumping or cutting out fencerows is the RM (semi chisel) Stihl chain. I make my living building fence and have cleared so many miles of old fencerow. I very seldom ruin a chain these days and can make one last as long as anyone can.
> 
> The key is to read the stump. You can always see where the wire has grown into the wood. If it's a woven wire fence you cannot cut between the wires unless you can see the vertical wires in between. Thats where most people get bit. Those vertical stays will grow into the tree and can't be seen. Only cut between the wires if you're tearing out barbed wire fence. I know I kinda got off on a tangent there but thats my fencerow clearing lesson of the day. :msp_tongue:
> 
> The carbide chain is best left for other uses. Like I said, get you some semi chisel and be careful where you cut. I've actually cut through wire without even dulling a semi chisel chain, but thats unusual. It can happen though. You even glance a wire with full chisel and you better have a grinder on hand or be ready to file your arms off.



most of the cutting I do is for farmers clearing overgrown fence lines. I have found barb wire, page wire, nails, cinderblocks, concrete poured at the base of trees, and all manner of scrap metal and garbage you can imagine. A patch of trees is the dump for most farmers and they wait until a fence is so grown in with trees that it's a total loss. Build a fence, no maintenance for decades and then all of a sudden the cows walk through it! What happened?? 

I hit a cinder block last week and was pleasantly surprised on how pudding soft Oregon chain handled it. I normally use Stihl or Carlton chain but had a loop of Oregon square that has been filed to round on this saw. It dulled the chain gracefully with no chipping which was nice.


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## Gngyoung (Jul 8, 2012)

*Happy ending*

Well, after returning the rapid duro chain to my dealer and informing him of what happened, I merely asked to have the chain re-ground to be re-used. Grinding with a drill and diamond eze-lap sharpening bit would have taken forever. After a week and a half I called the dealer and learned that the chain was deemed in-economical to regrind. The distributor, having heard the story, offered to credit back the dealer. The dealer in turn offered to replace the carbide chain with three steel chains. Now I know the retail of the RD chain is $135 and steel chains are $24, but given I likely paid closer to $60 in the original deal for the saw (I suspect the cost to the dealer is approx$60), I am still pleased as punch! The alternative was to claim I damaged the chain and return it to me but the stihl guys never took that route. The fact that I spend almost a thousand dollars may have affected this decision.

Having read the advice on here, (thanks guys!!), I ordered 3 of the semi chisel 33RM66 chains for my 18 bar. I really hope the chain lives up to the rep. I consider myself to be lucky and am thankful for an understanding dealer and distributor! 

On a side note, I have only burned three and a half tanks of fuel in my MS 362 so far and find the 33RS66 full chisel chain to cut well (quickly in clean wood)but seems to require a lot more power to turn at speed, particularly in a clean stump. What I mean is that the saw clutch stops often in a deep cut. I am aware the saw will "wake-up" after a few more tanks at full throttle. (it's been a long time since I broke in a new saw). Yes perhaps I'm taking it a little too easy on my new saw still but I trust this will end when I switch to the RM micro-chisel saw chain. I'm looking forward to experiencing the results. 

Thanks again for sharing your experiences!

G


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## Stihl Crazy (Jul 8, 2012)

Good to see the dealer step up and make you happy. The stihl rep is a great guy to work with. :msp_thumbsup:


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## ggausman (Mar 20, 2013)

*brazing carbide on to saw chains*

Have any of you heard of Chain-serts. Harvester application with removable cutters on the saw chain that require only replacement not sharpening. 



Gngyoung said:


> Well, after returning the rapid duro chain to my dealer and informing him of what happened, I merely asked to have the chain re-ground to be re-used. Grinding with a drill and diamond eze-lap sharpening bit would have taken forever. After a week and a half I called the dealer and learned that the chain was deemed in-economical to regrind. The distributor, having heard the story, offered to credit back the dealer. The dealer in turn offered to replace the carbide chain with three steel chains. Now I know the retail of the RD chain is $135 and steel chains are $24, but given I likely paid closer to $60 in the original deal for the saw (I suspect the cost to the dealer is approx$60), I am still pleased as punch! The alternative was to claim I damaged the chain and return it to me but the stihl guys never took that route. The fact that I spend almost a thousand dollars may have affected this decision.
> 
> Having read the advice on here, (thanks guys!!), I ordered 3 of the semi chisel 33RM66 chains for my 18 bar. I really hope the chain lives up to the rep. I consider myself to be lucky and am thankful for an understanding dealer and distributor!
> 
> ...


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## torence 20 (Mar 20, 2013)

just my .02 cents, duro chains have to be sharpened with a diamond wheel


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## Gngyoung (Mar 21, 2013)

*Yeah, I knew that..... But thanks .....*

The RD chain is a part of my personal history now. I put an RS chain on that 18 bar and finished the remaining 50 or so stumps and the same chain is still going strong! Like one of the previous replies here stated, keep cheaper steel chains around for dirty work.... Looking back, im sure the sparks came from astone imbedded in the wood. Will you hit a stone in a stump? Perhaps yes and who really knows; so its a gamble.... The 20 dollar gamble is just cheaper than the 135 dollar gamble. The result is the same.... No diamond wheels necessary.... 

I only hope this thread saves the trouble for someone else.

G


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## warsaw (Mar 30, 2017)

Stihl Crazy said:


> In the last 3 months we have sold over 55 Rapid Duro chains. We sell them for $45 for the 23RD362E and $69 for the 33RD360E in Nova Scotia where the OP lives. The RD is not a chain for every one. We are particular in who we sell to.
> 
> The RD3 is not a softwood logging chain. The RD3 is not a run it dull until the job is done chain. The RD3 is not a chain for someone that has any ability to file, its cutting performance is slower than a regular chain.
> 
> ...






Hi, i wonder if you can answer a question for me

i recently bought a stihl 034 AV 20" bar, quite cheap. 
on the way home i stopped at a stihl shop to buy a spanner for it
a customer next to me, a loggist, pointed out the chain has tungsten blades
i was unaware of these
the seller perhaps didn't know what he had, it seems the chain is worth more than what i paid for the whole machine

my question is; how often would this type of chain need sharpening using it under normal conditions, i plan to treat it right, for felling and cutting green logs for firewood?


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## Franny K (Mar 31, 2017)

warsaw said:


> Hi, i wonder if you can answer a question for me
> 
> 
> my question is; how often would this type of chain need sharpening using it under normal conditions, i plan to treat it right, for felling and cutting green logs for firewood?


I bought a loop of picco duro lately. It might not ever need sharpening the teeth could chip. There is not too much length of tooth before the shape changes. I have not examined any rapid duro. It has not dulled noticeably on the battery saw but when I tried it with a gasoline saw two teeth chipped to the extent more than half the useable length was damaged. Some frost was involved, perhaps I hit the end of another piece of firewood instead of the side. Good luck with it. You can read the advice in this thread not to get it too hot. It works acceptable for cross cut or bucking and is pretty dismal for noodling. I have not yet really tried it in a limbing application. It would seem another section to replace cutters from would be something needed to actually wear out a loop.


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## Ted Jenkins (Mar 31, 2017)

I tried the Stihl infused chain and it will cut into very hard wood and keep smiling for awhile, but it does have a limit. A much more durable chain exists but it can be very pricey. Recently I watched a fireman whip his chain saw out and cut a 1'' steel peg at a gate because they did not want to hassle with a key. It took maybe 5 minutes and the gate was open. As I understand there is a wide array of chains exist up to $30,000 for one loop of chain. Some chains even cut concrete. The whole thing comes back to at what cost. For removing stumps what has worked well is to dig around the stump to remove dirt and rock then treat it with acid to go back at it with the chain saw after it has softened. From my experience is to buy a reel of chain for $200 to $300 and then you have enough chain to cut an occasional rock and not have to worry about a big loss.Thanks


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## warsaw (Mar 31, 2017)

Franny K said:


> I bought a loop of picco duro lately. It might not ever need sharpening the teeth could chip. There is not too much length of tooth before the shape changes. I have not examined any rapid duro. It has not dulled noticeably on the battery saw but when I tried it with a gasoline saw two teeth chipped to the extent more than half the useable length was damaged. Some frost was involved, perhaps I hit the end of another piece of firewood instead of the side. Good luck with it. You can read the advice in this thread not to get it too hot. It works acceptable for cross cut or bucking and is pretty dismal for noodling. I have not yet really tried it in a limbing application. It would seem another section to replace cutters from would be something needed to actually wear out a loop.




thinking back .. circular saw blades i use on my table saw that are tungsten tipped.. do dull after a while, i cut up hard timber from demolished houses, a demolisher dumps off truck loads when i require it for nothing, saves him paying for tip fees, it's my main source of firewood
i like to be able to sharpen these blades myself, been looking at youtube videos
so i guess it would apply to tungsten chainsaw blades too, can't remember how long it would last untill it dulled [2 - 3 winters ?!]

anyway, i bought this property about 15 yrs ago, 1/2 acre - loaded with nuisance trees, so i bought my first chainsaw - a sweet husky 359 that hardly did any work for only 300 bucks, then once i thought i didn't need it any more i swapped it plus cash my way for a sweet 338 XPT  because i figured i just needed that to up-keep the remaining trees & it's been a good all rounder. stoopid move really.. coz now i got about 4 more that needs to die, shoulda kept the 359 and bought any ol' small top handle.

there's a tree root that lifted a concrete section in my garage preventing me from locking the roller door. thought about using the tungsten blade to hack it up. but after reading the thread.. think i'll just lift the damaged concrete ..dig around the root, remove as much soil as i can and use an old 12" chain for the husky


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## Mike Kunte (Jun 21, 2019)

Stihl Crazy said:


> In the last 3 months we have sold over 55 Rapid Duro chains. We sell them for $45 for the 23RD362E and $69 for the 33RD360E in Nova Scotia where the OP lives. The RD is not a chain for every one. We are particular in who we sell to.
> 
> The RD3 is not a softwood logging chain. The RD3 is not a run it dull until the job is done chain. The RD3 is not a chain for someone that has any ability to file, its cutting performance is slower than a regular chain.
> 
> ...




Hi Stihl Crazy,

Thank you for your candid approach. I'm currently helping my brother-in-law out on his farm where previous owners had cut and left bluegum (Eucalyuptus) stumps lying all around many years ago. We are now clearing them up by bucking them into disks for firewood. There are two main types - those which lie half-buried in the ground (the bottom rots and is covered in mud/sand) and those which lie above ground, and have semi-petrified. My BIL went through 3 chains in 20 minutes on the hardened wood, after which I suggested he try the carbide chains.

We are collecting the chains next week from our local Stihl dealer, but he gave us some telephonic advice regarding cutting speed which I'd like to run by you for verification. He suggested that very dry/hard/brittle wood should be cut at a very low speed (i.e. slow chain speed; as slow as possible). All the instructional videos I have seen (obviously for green wood) require the chainsaw to be running at full speed before engaging the wood. Reading up on carbide chains I am now careful of running them fas/hot. Obviously, this hard dry wood is a special case.

Do you concur with this approach? I would really appreciate your insights on this ons.

Regards,

Mike


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## abdiver (Sep 24, 2022)

Mike I know about how hard Euch can get I have some that I need to cut up to splitter size. My stuff is fairly clean. How do you suggest I cut it up "Like what type of chain to use". Thanks (on the coast of Calif )


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## tfp (Sep 24, 2022)

I cut almost 100% eucalyptus, and 95% of that is either dead standing or dead on the ground. Bluegum is easier than say ironbark or stringybark, which can have a lot of dirt in the bark itself. I use Stihl semi-chisel chains. I once used a full chisel chain to cut up a green ironbark and used 3/4 of the chain just to buck up the barrels. If there is any dirt on the outside I suggest you use a broom or brush to get rid of as much of it as you can. Make sure your rakers are set to the "hardwood" setting on your gauge.

Some examples of how long my chain has stayed sharp recently: Ironbark on the ground, dead for 60+ years, no bark, cut up one full tray load (ute/truck tray), 12 inches in length and from 10 to 16 inches diameter, sharpened before starting and once during. Stihl MS250. Did a Stringybark recently, bark still on but had ants nest behind it, had to peel off bark with a crow bar then brushed down the wood to get rid of most of the dirt. One sharpen got me through the main barrel, resharpened and did all the crown / leaders. Main barrel was 16 to 18 inches.

You guys might have different growing conditions or something compared to where I am, because i've never had stumps or barrels petrify and there are some stumps i've cut on a sheep station that have been dead since 1920 when they were cut for fence posts.

I run all my saws wide open, not sure what your dealer is suggesting with regard to chain speed. I run 7 tooth sprockets not 8. Maybe that's what he meant. Sounds like you're dealing with a lot of dirt as well. I would save the dirty parts until last and cut all the cleaner stuff first. Brush off as much dirt as you can. Do all of your top cuts first through clean wood then roll over the logs, brush off any dirt, then finish all of the previous cuts from underneath pulling up, so the chain is in contact with dirt on the wood for as short a time as possible.

Make sure your oiler is turned up to the max setting.


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## Mike Kunte (Sep 24, 2022)

abdiver said:


> Mike I know about how hard Euch can get I have some that I need to cut up to splitter size. My stuff is fairly clean. How do you suggest I cut it up "Like what type of chain to use". Thanks (on the coast of Calif )


Hey, abdiver!
I have not used the carbide chains for a while now. On the Euc I've been having good results with the Stihl RM chain, which is the semi-chisel. It feeds well, cuts fast enough, and is easy to touch up in the field with a file. 
Regards, 
Mike


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