# Liability for chain sharpening



## preach it (Dec 2, 2006)

I have my own tree business and have done well for over 10 years now. I was considering sharpening chains for other people and maybe even advertising that. Is there a liability for someone being hurt by a chain I sharpen? I have liability Ins. now for tree cutting and stump grinding and have had no problems. Is there Ins. that will cover that liability? You know what I mean, I sharpen a chain real good for a few dollars and they cut themselves and sue me. Those who do sharpen for money, what do you think and do you have ins. for it?


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## rfwoodvt (Dec 2, 2006)

*There is always someone willing to file suit*

Hi,

Sad truth is that if you touched a product and someone gets hurt with it you are likely to find yourself party to a lawsuit. That Said, just talk with your agent and find out if such business activity is covered. And if not, how much to add it.

You might also want to look for some errors and ommissions type coverage.

Again, your insurance agent is the person best suited to helping you figure this out.


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## preach it (Dec 4, 2006)

Has any been sued for the way they sharpened someone's chain? Don't answer all at once.


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## ShoerFast (Dec 4, 2006)

It should be legal to sue for knee-capping, unless it is knee-capping someone that is suing someone. 

Frivolous law-suits are really hurting America, it needs to stop. 

There are a couple things that could cut your court time down,,,, 

Talk to an Attorney, skip the lawyer jokes, lawyers don't think there funny, and everybody else don't think there jokes. Look at any phone book and see how many Attorneys there are, and the sad thing is, there making some huge coin. 

Get a clip-board and a read and sign sheet, the wordage needs to at least have local input from an attorney, but say something in regards to the inherent risk involved with saws and saw chain, could say that it is the operator to determine the safety and condition of resharpened chain,,,,,,,,,,

If everyone that signs the clip-board understands that they are relinquishing the responsibilities of mearly sharpening a chain, it may be all a Judge needs to see that there is no implication to altering (sharping) saw chain or the right to sue.

There are also a very few laws on the books that protect services as to the limit of liability, but a damn shame there are so many blood-suckers in the water. (<-----<<< very cleaned up version of the correct wordage there)


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## M.D. Vaden (Dec 4, 2006)

That would be interesting to know.

Might be hard to prove much with a used chain, unless it was damaged with grinding to other than the cutters.


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## preach it (Dec 5, 2006)

I have heard of some places, that sharpen saws, to require the consumer to sign paper that they won't sue for injury from the sharpened chain. Would this be a little extreme or should it be the norm?
I still want to hear from those who sharpen chains about their insurance coverage.


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## JayD (Dec 28, 2006)

Hi ,
Like anything you do for the public if something goes wrong,...well you know what they are like,ring your insurance dude and have him amend your policy to cover this activity,and then fax you a copy..talk is cheap..once you have your copy then start sharpening chains,with a small disclaimer stating..a sharpened chainsaw chain is extremely sharp and should be used by trained professionals only..verbally warn them and have it written on your receipt..much more than this is going overboard..as long as you can show your duty of care and your ins amendment your starting to protect yourself as much as you can.but if you loose sleep over it can the idea
All The Best


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## M.D. Vaden (Dec 28, 2006)

With as few injuries as occur from any damaged chains, I wonder how much fewer ever occur with damaged chains that came from a sharpening service rather than someone's personal tools.

It must be remarkably miniscule.

I don't think the insurance companies would be worried about it to a big degree.


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## JayD (Dec 29, 2006)

M.D. Vaden said:


> It must be remarkably miniscule.
> 
> I don't think the insurance companies would be worried about it to a big degree.



I respect what you said and agree to a point, but if it's not on your insurance papers and the worst happens (claim) they will simply get up and walk out of the court room leaving you high and dry


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## toscottm (Jan 8, 2007)

preach it said:


> Is there Ins. that will cover that liability? You know what I mean, I sharpen a chain real good for a few dollars and they cut themselves and sue me. Those who do sharpen for money, what do you think and do you have ins. for it?



Preach It;

What you are looking for is 'Products & Completed Operations' coverage as part of the general liability protection in your business insurance package. 

As an 'arborist', you should already be carrying insurance for 'completed operations'. This is the section of coverage that pays for allegations of liability (and settlements if awarded) involving incidents that result from flawed workmanship. Should someone allege that you over sharpened, under sharpened, loosened, tightened or otherwise adversely affected the chain and this 'work' has caused damage or injury, you will need 'completed operations' coverage (as opposed to operations coverage which applies if the damage or injury happens while the work is being done).

Just let your insurance broker know that 'chain sharpening' is a new service you are considering to offer. They will let you know what additional coverage is required (if any) and what additional premium applies for the additional risk exposure.

Hope this helps!

Scott


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## preach it (Jan 8, 2007)

Scott, thanks for the tip. Looks like you do this as a job most everyday, as far as arborist insurance goes. I will contact my ins. co. and find out about the things that you mentioned. Eric.


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## M.D. Vaden (Jan 8, 2007)

JayD said:


> I respect what you said and agree to a point, but if it's not on your insurance papers and the worst happens (claim) they will simply get up and walk out of the court room leaving you high and dry



It would be odd though, for an agent to sell a policy to a sharpening shop - say DCP Sharpening of Beaverton - and the policy is useless.

Now if it's a chainsaw sales store, maybe it might be different, although if they are a repair shop, that is often stated before the policy is issued.

It might be like someone selling me - M. D. Vaden Trees and Landscapes - that wouldn't cover damage from digging holes for planting trees.

But I can see where what you mentioned could occur.

For example, some companies will insure a landscaper, but the policy won't cover pond installation, even though more than half of landscapers install water features.

The insurance problem might be worse if the insurance company and insured, don't review the policy and work to be performed, in detail.


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## crashagn (Jan 8, 2007)

i dont know if this would have anything to do with the subject.. but the Small engine repair/ saw dealer next town over that i get my chain and such from.. He will only sell saws with the anti-skip type chain to homeowners and people that he thinks are weekend warriors trying to make a fast buck. He stated to me he was worried about someone not really knowing what they was doing or getting gunhoe and it coming back on him. You have to actually request the chain you want.


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## Marco (Jan 27, 2007)

get paid cash, no paper trail or bill it as misc........having people sign a waiver is fine, anybody ever have to shapen chains for a customers friend, that friend did not sign the waiver


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## toscottm (Jan 27, 2007)

*Avoidance Strategies*



Marco said:


> get paid cash, no paper trail or bill it as misc........having people sign a waiver is fine, anybody ever have to shapen chains for a customers friend, that friend did not sign the waiver



Marco,

There's two points I want to make about this type of 'advice'.

1. Suggesting that a good solution is 'avoidance' by having no paper trail, etc., is just asking for trouble. First of all, it is likely ineffective as a trail surely exists in other ways. A good forensic investigator could probably match a chain up with a sharpener in dozens of ways. If something were to happen, the suggestion that one deny having performed service is a solution that is morally wrong. I don't think the original question was posed as a request for 'fraudulent' solutions.

2. Waivers are not very effective for what would be a product & completed operations liability claim. If a legal allegation is made, a waiver is also only going to be part of evidence in the court case. It doesn't instantly stop the proceedings. Too many people believe that a waiver is something that can be shown to the process server that knocks on your door to serve a lawsuit. Please appreciate that a process server (and lawyer for the injured) would not look at a waiver and say, "oh, we're sorry - ok, have a nice day" and all would be over! A waiver can only be used to alert someone to inherent risks and obtain their agreement that they understand the inherent risks and are willing to 'waive' their future rights. Of course, that person can always contend later that what resulted was not an 'inherent risk' (such as flaw in workmanship) and thus they didn't waive their rights in such respects. Additionally, a person who signs a waiver can only waive their own rights. If some other person becomes involved, the waiver is inapplicable.

An appropriate business solution would be to perform one's work with as much care as possible with acknowledgement of one's responsibilities. Do as good a job as you possibly can to reduce the chances of something happening and of course, carry applicable insurance coverage just in case an accident still happens!

Scott


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## Marco (Jan 27, 2007)

oh ok, I'll make a note to pay the sales tax on out of state purchases also. Thanks for showing me the light.


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## boo (Jan 28, 2007)

hard to trust those in organized crime. make sure of the details on any policy.
a sharp chain is much safer than a dull chain.
a .10 cent informative flyer with every sharpened chain may be of some help.
goodluck


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