# Starting the search for a mill - suggestions?



## Dad2FourWI (Oct 11, 2010)

We have a family tree farm (since 1952!) and have been growing mostly Red Pine/Norway, White Pine, semi-hard Maples, and some slightly better than scrub oak... we are on very sandy and poor soil.

So far we have been selling the pines (Red) for paper pulp and utility poles but we are now starting to think about using the pines for our own use and maybe even selling some cabin-ish furniture.

We are looking for some info on milling our trees - the Red/Norway pines at the max are about 18" and some of the White pines are around 24"-30"

I am not going into the lumber business but on the other hand, I do not want a piece of junk that will not last me either...

I am looking to set this up in my barn so portability is NOT a plus.

I would love any and all feedback/ideas!!!

I am "off the grid" currently... we are building a new barn and we have no internet connectivity "on the farm" - heck, we don't even have running water! - but I will check back here on the first rainy day when we can't work!!!! LOL!!!

Again, thanks for the help!
-Dad2Four(Wisconsin)


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## mtngun (Oct 12, 2010)

Any of the entry level portable bandmills should serve you well, though some of the larger diameter trees may be a challenge on a small mill.

Gbilder's Linn mill thread should be right up your alley.


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## BobL (Oct 12, 2010)

mtngun said:


> any of the entry level portable bandmills should serve you well, though some of the larger diameter trees may be a challenge on a small mill.
> 
> gbilder's linn mill thread should be right up your alley.



+1


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## Sawyer Rob (Oct 13, 2010)

I would buy a used Norwood Lumbermate 2000. It will cost you less used, and still do all you want to do, plus it will have a decent resale later when you are done with it.

The LM2000's are as good or better than the other mills in that size of bandsaw mill. They are very well built out of standard parts, instead a bunch of spl. bearings ect...

Rob


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## gemniii (Oct 13, 2010)

If you want new with warranty currently the "best guaranteed bang for the $$" seems to be the Woodmizer LT-10 at about $3K. A little over a year ago Woodmizer dropped their prices on the LT-10 to match the recession.

Search, there's threads here.


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## Sawyer Rob (Oct 13, 2010)

The LT10 is a total "joke" compared to the LM2000 or the Mizer LT15. Run all three, and you will see what i mean.

I'd take an OLD well used LM2000 to a new LT10 without hesitation, as not much goes wrong with the 2000, and you will outgrow the LT10 in no time at all. Yes, i have run all three.....and on the same day.

About the only important update the 2000's got since the first one, (that i can think of right now) was a new clutch for the 20 and 23hp models, as Norwood made the clutch mfg. recall them and replace them with a MUCH stronger clutch for the added hp models.

Rob


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## badkarma (Oct 14, 2010)

I can't comment about other portable band mills but the customer service at Woodmizer is first rate. I've been extremely happy with my Woodmizer LT28.


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## Alaskat (Oct 16, 2010)

I had a mobile dimensional and it really makes some lumber. No log turning and you can clamp three logs side by side. With horizontal and vertical blade you make face cuts and every pass is four sided board and can make two 2x6 in single pass. Good resale value and serious one man production. Mine used electric motors I powered with genset. Lots of torque from 30hp electric motor.


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## Sawyer Rob (Oct 17, 2010)

If you want to just mill a log, or just make construction lumber, not turning the log is fine. BUT, if you want the BEST grade lumber out of the same logs, you HAVE to turn the logs.

"Grade sawing" can and will make a BIG difference in the quality of lumber you get out of a log. And, if you work with lumber or want to sell the lumber to a woodworker, you will make a lot more profit from grade sawing. Because, when the quality of lumber is higher so is the amount of money you will get for it.

DM


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## Dad2FourWI (Oct 23, 2010)

Thank you all for the feedback!!!!!!!

I did get a chance to ask for additional info from Linn Lumber and have received a packet from them and I will do the same for the other mills recommended from you all!!

I really appreciate the information and please feel free to pass on any additional info/gotchas/what ever that you might think a newbie-miller, like me, may need.

-Dad2FourWI


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## TraditionalTool (Oct 23, 2010)

I bought a used LumberMate 2000 with a 23HP engine on it. It serves me fine, the bed was custom made for it, so it doesn't have the original bed.

I have seen the WoodMizer LT15 and it would also work fine for most folks, IMO, as would the Cooks MP32, Log-Master, TimberKing 1220, Baker, Linn Lumber, or even the Burg for that matter.

What it gets down to is finding one used, if that is what your looking for, or just ponying up to the bar and springing for a new one. For a new one I would be looking at the Cooks and Log-Master.

I've been using the Cooks blades on my LumberMate 2000 and like them a lot.


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## gemniii (Oct 23, 2010)

And to the OP - I know it seems like a great idea to mill your own wood. But remember that you sthil will not be getting free lumber.

Perhaps Sawyer Rob or Traditional Tool could chime in with the operating costs (fuel, blades, etc.) on a board foot (BF) basis. But I'd expect about 5 to 10 cents per BF NOT COUNTING LABOR or the value of money if it was spent elsewhere. 

Compare that to the cost of having it milled by someone else. I've read recently of several "portable sawyers" who charge between 25 to 35 cents/BF for lumber milled at your site, from your logs, to your dimensions. Thus every $1,000 spent on a mill could buy about 3,000BF of accurately cut lumber. I've also been reading of many small sawyers not getting jobs because the lumber can be bought cheaper from the local lumberyard, kiln-dried, on an as need basis. The lumber market is still way down, and will be way down until housing revives.

Since you indicated you don't plan on doing it for a business how many board feet do you plan on using? 

Do you have real plans for the wood products? Is there a market? Have you been working with the Federal/State/County foresters?

There's a tradeoff between having a $6,000 machine setting there ready to do anything, and having $6,000 to do anything.

I've been looking for an entry level mill for about a year now, planning for retirement, and there seems to be four types of sellers of used mills -

1. Bought it, never used it much at all, need the money.
2. Bought it for a specific project, selling it because the project is done. 
3. Bought it, made money with it, moving up to a bigger mill.
4. Relative bought it, passed away (estate sale).

You want to avoid being a #1 or and put off being a #4 as long as possible.


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## Dad2FourWI (Oct 23, 2010)

gemniii,

Loved the post... and appreciated the very practical viewpoint too!!!!

I agree, I would hate to be #1 and #4 is even worse!!!<LOL>

I have 320 acres of wood... growing on moderate soil so we are not talking about a "gold mine" here!!!! - and I am going to be building a cabin next year or the following year, but again... I will probably be using someone else's lumber for this (dry and straight!)...

I guess I am really thinking about items that I can mill for the cabin from wood from the farm itself... rough tables, stairs, planks, etc

You are totally correct... I do need to "step back" and really look at this... if I was to stumble on a used mill, I would love it... but purchasing a new mill would not be my first choice!!! and not a real wise choice right now... 

I guess I need to check out Craig's List... I am NOT exactly a pro on this... do you have any other ideas on where one might find a "lightly" <grin> used mill????????

Many thanks,
-Dad2FourWI


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## TraditionalTool (Oct 24, 2010)

gemniii said:


> Perhaps Sawyer Rob or Traditional Tool could chime in with the operating costs (fuel, blades, etc.) on a board foot (BF) basis. But I'd expect about 5 to 10 cents per BF NOT COUNTING LABOR or the value of money if it was spent elsewhere.


I don't cut as much as Rob does, but there is more that is needed besides a sawmill to be productive.

You will need some type of lift, either a tractor, forklift, loader, etc...many people use tractors, I've seen that Sawyer Rob does, but they are pretty limited in the amount of weight they can lift. All depends on what you want to yield out of the timber. I'm building a 28x32 log home. The white pine I'm using weighs about 3000 lbs. per log, with the sides milled off. This is not like working with 4/4 milled lumber. You would also be pressed to use a tractor for this type of work, they just don't lift high enough or even lift enough weight.

You will most likely need a place to dry the wood you mill also.

You may need a place to store the logs while you cut them. You need to move them around, cut them, store the wood, etc...

You say you would like to build a cabin. That's a pretty vague statement. Sounds like you'll be building it out of dimensional lumber from your comment, "I will probably be using someone else's lumber for this (dry and straight!)...".

Here's a pic of what I'm doing.


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## Dad2FourWI (Oct 24, 2010)

@ TraditionalTool,

That looks like a kick!!!! I am jealous! 

Yea, I was thinking about using dimensional lumber - 2x6 for the ext, wavy cedar on the outside, pine t&g on the inside... I want to use my logs (or pieces of them) for the stairs (slabs of half rounds for the treads) and some full logs for the support posts, hand rails for the loft, etc

What the heck, this is a "tree farm" so it would be nice to have it "fit" into that motif!!!

Any & all ideas on how to make it more "cabinish" are appreciated!!! - of course without going "whole-hog" (our should I say "whole-log"!!!) as you are doing!!!

We are going to be doing this ourselves (me, my wife, and 4 kids) so lifting/moving full sized logs around is probably not in our ability...

OK, I have to include this year's project... see pic - a barn 32 x 54

You can see in the background the Red Pine/Norway - we have lots of these - originally used for paper pulp (before the paper market tanked!) and we are now selling some for utility poles...

And yes, that is "home made" scaffolding... we like to do things ourselves and money is pretty tight so we tend to build our own tools!

We are thinking about 32' x 48' for the cabin (this includes 8' foot of porch on the 32' wall - so the cabin is 32x40)

Anyways, I do appreciate the feedback on the mill and next years project the cabin!!!!!

-Dad2Four


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## rmount (Oct 24, 2010)

If you are not too worried about speed or high volume of output you might want to consider a chainsaw mill. I'm very happy with the Logosol M7, its about $2500 new - plus you need a decent chainsaw which you may already have. Most of what I mill is pine or hemlock (16'' - 24'') for individual projects.

Here's some pics of recent jobs:

Stairs for the front porch





Garden shed





1" pine for our daughter's livingroom floor


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## gemniii (Oct 24, 2010)

Dad2FourWI said:


> Yea, I was thinking about using dimensional lumber - 2x6 for the ext, wavy cedar on the outside, pine t&g on the inside... I want to use my logs (or pieces of them) for the stairs (slabs of half rounds for the treads) and some full logs for the support posts, hand rails for the loft, etc


AAh - more info



Dad2FourWI said:


> Any & all ideas on how to make it more "cabinish" are appreciated!!! - of course without going "whole-hog" (our should I say "whole-log"!!!) as you are doing!!!
> 
> We are going to be doing this ourselves (me, my wife, and 4 kids) so lifting/moving full sized logs around is probably not in our ability...
> 
> ...


Nice barn - shows you have the skills.

Now unfortunately I made the assumption you had plenty of chainsaw resources, since you had wrote "tree farm" and "30 inch trees".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you just want to get your trees to lay down and be in pieces you can use for other purposes, such a stair treads and scaffolding. Your not trying to have a bigger BSM than the guy next door.

I view six methods to make usable lumber from trees at home.
Axe, Adze, handsaws - been there, done that, tedious.
Chainsaw - freehand - lot's of peeps do it for thick lumber
Chainsaw with a minimill - good for thick lumber, not really accurate.
Chainsaw with a CSM - good for lumber down to about 2", fairly accurate
Bandsaw Mill - Very good, costs a lot more, can make a lot more. I don't know how thin you can go.
Money - just pay someone to do it

What (if any) do you have for chainsaws? A 60CC class saw is about the minimum for CSM, I started with my 62CC John Deer. With a 28" bar I was cutting lumber 18" wide carefully, 14" wide easily.

If you've got the saw and blade all you have to add is the frame. A brand new Alaskan Mark III, 36", only costs $200 http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=46778&catID= (note free shipping until 11/30). And there are numerous peeps here that build their own out of material they have handy. 

Of course there are other accessories you might might need but very few are specific to the CSM. You need to maintain your chains. I've spent several hundred on sharpeners, files, grinders, chain spinners etc. But I will need them anyways to cut down a lot of trees.

With a 60CC saw, a 28" blade, and a Mark III or equivalent, you could fell a 30" tree, slab it, then easily cut it up further into stair treads, support posts, hand rails and lumber for "cabinish" type furniture.

My plan put a CSM first because I will need most of the same stuff when I graduate to a BSM.

Now if you move up to a larger saw, like a 90CC w/ a 42" blade, you could mill your largest tree easily and produce some wide lumber.

Anyways, not trying to dissuade you from getting a 25HP bandsaw, but with the few parameters you've provided it seems other avenues of approach to get the trees into stairs are more cost efficient.

Now if you want more info on getting saws, etc. on the cheap hang around or ask. This forum is generally very helpful.


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## gemniii (Oct 24, 2010)

rmount said:


> Garden shed
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well I see your putting weight on the stack but you should distribute it more evenly.


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## mikeb1079 (Oct 24, 2010)

gemnii makes a good point. if what you're after is a stick built cabin with some elements done with milled timber from your land (which is what i'll be doing when my family and i build our cabin) then a chainsaw mill is a great way to go. for 500-1000 bucks you could have a really nice setup (chainsaw, alaskan, chain, cant hook, etc). its not made for production but you can still mill alot of lumber from this setup. starting last august and milling probably 4-6 hrs per weekend until november i milled almost all the lumber in this photo. 






we all want a bsm, well perhaps except mr bobby, but a csm is a good alternative if money is a consideration. besides, just make your kids do all the hard work.


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## Dad2FourWI (Oct 24, 2010)

@ rmount - thanks for the feedback and I liked the pics

@ gemniii - some more great feedback!!! I used to cut pulp back in the early 80's and I still have and run those very well used machines to this day. However, I have not used some of the longer blades... I have to admit, when the white pine is growing on your own land... I tend to make lots of excuses to put off harvesting the bigger ones...  It took so many years to reach that size that I know I will never see them get that big again (and prob my kids too) if I harvest them.

We have lots of acres but not too many really big white pines (30+ inches) and even whites that are between 12 - 24 are not real common...

I have a ton of Red/Norway Pine but I do not know how useful that is for logs and lumber??????? Some of these are 16 - 18 DBH, so not bad in size...

Your points are well taken and I will take a closer look at the links and CSMs in general.

@ mikeb1079 - thanks for the further feedback on CSM's - that is an impressive amount of lumber!!! (hey, where are you located.... LOL! 


OK, I am heading back to the farm and will be "off the grid" for a while... until we have some more rainy days and I go into the library to continue to read all of your very helpful input!!!!!

Many thanks to all of you - your effort and experience is very much appreciated!!!!

I need to finish the walls on that barn and turn my attention to the roof before the snow flies!!!!

-Dad2FourWI


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## Sawyer Rob (Oct 24, 2010)

Dad2FourWI said:


> gemniii,
> 
> Loved the post... and appreciated the very practical viewpoint too!!!!
> 
> ...



A Norwood Lumbermate would work perfect for what you want to do... If you mill the pine, and get it on stickers, in 45 days or so it will be plenty dry and straight to use for a cabin or barn.

Also you have MUCH LESS waste to sawdust over an CSM, and a BSM is MUCH faster cutting. You can make a lot of lumber in a day with a BSM, and with a LOT less work getting it cut out of your logs. In fact, the BSM is so much faster cutting compared to a CSM, you can sell some of your lumber if you want, to get some of your money back.

The best part is, the Lumbermate will still have good resale when you are done with it, so you can recoup much of your investment. That is, IF you want to ever sell it. I'm betting with that much woodlot around, you won't want to sell it.

As for tractors, my tractor will lift over 3,000 pounds more than 10 feet high, and it takes one heck of a big pine log to get anywhere near that weight.

Actually, you can roll the logs right onto the mill deck using a ramp and canthook, so you don't "have to have" a tractor to get started.

Rob


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