# Small time CS milling - Equipment and techniques



## windblown (Mar 20, 2022)

Here's my story so far when it comes to small time CSM. I hope it proves helpful to others just starting out and hope that others with experience that have tips and tricks they find work well will join in! I'll add posts with frustrations and Ah-Ha moments as they come. 

I mostly cut firewood though I also do a bit of wood working. Naturally the desire to make my own lumber for projects had to happen sooner or later...Since I have no plans to make it a business or end up with stacks of rough lumber piled up everywhere volume is very low. Hence the equipment used needs to be as economical as possible (keeping in mind that my free time is cheap) and not take up a lot of space.

My weapons of choice to date are the Granberg Alaskan Mill for slabs. It does a great job of making nice smooth repeatable slabs which all depends on the ever important first cut. I found setting up an Alaskan Mill for the first cut to be cumbersome plus I occasionally want to cut beams and cants rather than slabs so wanted an edger and I went in search of the cheapest solutions. Something that sets up quick and gives a good cut whether it's becuase I'm making beams or just want to create a first cut for the Alaskan Mill to run on. The two I've tried to date are the Timber-Tuff edging mill and the Granberg G555-B edging mill.




I started with the Timber-Tuff and I like the over-all concept and simplicity of the design. A compact attachment mounts on the saw blade and you need a straight 2x6 or 2x4 of the appropriate length, that's it! It doesn't get much simpler. But in truth it's a cheaply made POS that does not cut at a 90 degree angle with out a lot of work with shimming to try to compensate for a guide that's untrue right out of the box and has zero means to tune the cut angle. Good luck cutting beams or a decent can't with out a ton of futzing around. It's a shame there is not a nicer built unit of the same basic design.

The Grandberg Edging mill is made with much stouter materials and I find it cuts true as long as the guide board is true. It's a bit more fiddly to set up the guide board for it since you need to carefully attach aluminum rails to the board for it to track on. Here are they are side by side Granberg on the left, Timber-Tuff on the right.



Note on the Granberg: Before you attach the rails to your guide board do your self a huge favor and camphor the edges of the rails. Otherwise even the slightest misalignment will result in a hard stop when sliding the saw along the guide rail. Not something you want to have to jiggle around in the middle of a cut.





Here is the difference in the accuracy of the 90 degree cuts between the two measured with a square hung across the guide board. The TimberTuff is way out of wack (and both of the timber tuff units I got have the same issue).
Timber Tuff



Granberg G555-B:



With the Granberg and a little care setting up the guide board it's easy to cut a pretty decent beam or cant.



Speaking of guide boards. I'm running 12' guide boards and they will quickly warp twist and bow which causes extra set up time at best, and a bad cut at worst. I may have to spring for a stouter and longer lasting guide set-up. At the moment I'm preparing to experiment with the guide board on the left below. 12' long using 3 layers of 3/4" ply laminated together. It's not quite ready for use yet. Want to round the edges slighly and give it a coat of oil. The hope it that it will remain stable and usable for a considerable amount of time unlike the plain boards. 



So that's it for now. Just harry home owner making sawdust now and then. 

Oh, and I'm so cheap I don't even have a peavy. However I have found the tractor bucket makes a great log turner. Pick up the log, roll the bucket set the log back down, down.


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## BlackCoffin (Mar 21, 2022)

I have ran into the same guide board issue. I have a home made vertical mill to use in making beams and lumber, I just ripped a 2x8 to fit between the rails. They’re around 7” I believe. My cut was a little arrow and allows some play between the frame, but on top of that it has warped over time despite keeping the board indoors and dry. I’m thinking of making an aluminum guide rail out of square tubing one of these days, almost like a mini ladder setup to ride along. Just need to get material and do it…


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## windblown (Mar 21, 2022)

BlackCoffin said:


> I have ran into the same guide board issue. I have a home made vertical mill to use in making beams and lumber, I just ripped a 2x8 to fit between the rails. They’re around 7” I believe. My cut was a little arrow and allows some play between the frame, but on top of that it has warped over time despite keeping the board indoors and dry. I’m thinking of making an aluminum guide rail out of square tubing one of these days, almost like a mini ladder setup to ride along. Just need to get material and do it…View attachment 975206


That's a stout looking attachment! I imagine the weight helps keep the saw settled. Does having long rollers riding on the guide bar give you trouble with saw dust build up? 

I'm coming to the likely obvious conclusion I may need to bite the bullet and get away from wood as a guide bar solution if I want to get consistent results without a lot of fussing around. I'll see how the plywood one I made performs and how long it lasts. In the meantime I'm keeping my eyes peeled for some cheap metal or a yardsale aluminum ladder for to experiment with.


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## BlackCoffin (Mar 21, 2022)

If the wind is in my favor then sawdust buildup isn’t an issue, otherwise I have to pull back and wipe the 2x8 free a few times. The saw doesn’t vibrate at all and the rollers make it super smooth, almost no effort to push it along. It really is a nice setup. I’m about 1/8” off if I cut about 10” down so I give a little more when cutting beams.


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## windblown (Mar 22, 2022)

Sigh... was wondering why the saw seemed to slow in the cut a little.


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## sonny580 (Mar 22, 2022)

Ya, that metal does a real number on blades/chains! lol! I have destroyed a few bandmill blades by hittin junk in logs. --- they claim we should have metal detectors, but not sure they would find steel or not,---thought they only work on gold, copper, brass, etc.
On the guide board issue, they have lini ones but dont know if they work on the beam cutters or not. I only use mine to skin down oversized logs to fit in my bandmill. 
I did just buy a little Alaskan 14 to 24 inch jobber to use on a 14 to 18 inch small saw to cut " firewood lumber"! I can get a LOT of short logs that are wasted for firewood that have a lot of nice short boards in them and I too am NOT looking for volume,--- only good boards for my own woodwork habit! lol!


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## Mad Professor (Mar 22, 2022)

sonny580 said:


> Ya, that metal does a real number on blades/chains! lol! I have destroyed a few bandmill blades by hittin junk in logs. --- they claim we should have metal detectors, but not sure they would find steel or not,---thought they only work on gold, copper, brass, etc.
> On the guide board issue, they have lini ones but dont know if they work on the beam cutters or not. I only use mine to skin down oversized logs to fit in my bandmill.
> I did just buy a little Alaskan 14 to 24 inch jobber to use on a 14 to 18 inch small saw to cut " firewood lumber"! I can get a LOT of short logs that are wasted for firewood that have a lot of nice short boards in them and I too am NOT looking for volume,--- only good boards for my own woodwork habit! lol!


Stay away from "line trees" on fence/property lines ( or start at 6' up from base), yard trees, etc.....


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## windblown (Mar 22, 2022)

Mad Professor said:


> Stay away from "line trees" on fence/property lines ( or start at 6' up from base), yard trees, etc.....


Yep. I don't generally run into a ton of stuff out here in the woods but it's all been rural farm county for a long time. Evidentially someone had attached something to this tree. Shame too, it looked like a nice log but I ran into a lot of faults and issues as I opened it up. 

This iron stain was a quite some distance away from the nail. There must have been more in the tree that had had been eaten away over time. Luckily I didn't hit any more.


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## BobL (Mar 22, 2022)

sonny580 said:


> Ya, that metal does a real number on blades/chains! lol! I have destroyed a few bandmill blades by hittin junk in logs. --- they claim we should have metal detectors, but not sure they would find steel or not,---thought they only work on gold, copper, brass, etc.


The will definitely work on steel. What they won't detect is everything else I seem to hit. rocks, glass, ceramics, and even a lump of concrete I found in eh middle of a of a branch union.


sonny580 said:


> On the guide board issue, they have lini ones but dont know if they work on the beam cutters or not. I only use mine to skin down oversized logs to fit in my bandmill.
> I did just buy a little Alaskan 14 to 24 inch jobber to use on a 14 to 18 inch small saw to cut " firewood lumber"! I can get a LOT of short logs that are wasted for firewood that have a lot of nice short boards in them and I too am NOT looking for volume,--- only good boards for my own woodwork habit! lol!


I started out in 2007 with a little home made alaskan (max 24" Bar) and when I made my bigger all Ally mill that could take a 42" bar I thought I'd never use the small alaskan again but I have still used it quite a bit for smaller logs. It's a bit more portable and I can use it in my inner city (we're 1 mile from the CBD) pocket handkerchief back garden. I do this during working hours when everyone else is at work. Short logs have very short cut times so its not like it goes on-and-on-and-on. So far no complaints from anyone. I was expecting a complaint from an ornery artist type who lives a few houses away as we have had run ins with him before over dod barking issues but nit a peep.


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## windblown (Mar 22, 2022)

BobL said:


> The will definitely work on steel. What they won't detect is everything else I seem to hit. rocks, glass, ceramics, and even a lump of concrete I found in eh middle of a of a branch union.
> 
> I started out in 2007 with a little home made alaskan (max 24" Bar) and when I made my bigger all Ally mill that could take a 42" bar I thought I'd never use the small alaskan again but I have still used it quite a bit for smaller logs. It's a bit more portable and I can use it in my inner city (we're 1 mile from the CBD) pocket handkerchief back garden. I do this during working hours when everyone else is at work. Short logs have very short cut times so its not like it goes on-and-on-and-on. So far no complaints from anyone. I was expecting a complaint from an ornery artist type who lives a few houses away as we have had run ins with him before over dod barking issues but nit a peep.
> 
> View attachment 975562



That's a cool little jig!


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## BlackCoffin (Mar 22, 2022)

Just tell the artist guy you’re making art too.

.404 chain holds up a little better to nails. Doesn’t seem to get as wrecked.


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## BobL (Mar 22, 2022)

windblown said:


> That's a cool little jig!


Cheers WB, Pics and some pics of the first few things I cut with it here https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/milling-some-shorts.46491



BlackCoffin said:


> Just tell the artist guy you’re making art too.


The artist is an obnoxious character plus he threatened our dogs even though I could provide it was not our dogs the were barking. Very stupidly he did it in front of another neighbour and I reminded him that he would be the first person the cops would come calling on if something happened.


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## windblown (Mar 25, 2022)

Was supposed to be my last milling day today. Last two oak logs to slab to 5/4. Rain moving in later but figured I had time. New edging guide bar I made up has been working well and giving good first cuts to work from. Checking for flatness after the cut here.





Things were moving along pretty well. Then this happened while cutting my 4th slab. 







This was an Archer milling chain. I bought two and have been swapping back and forth. Hope the other doesn't meet a similar fate before I get done. Only other 24" loops I have are full chisel and not ground for milling.

Decided to take a break and have a cup of coffee and surf the internet for a bit. No point in getting in a rush, I won't get that last log before the rain comes.


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## BobL (Mar 25, 2022)

windblown said:


> Only other 24" loops I have are full chisel and not ground for milling.


I wouldn't let that stop you - just take it a bit slower and you should be fine.


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## windblown (Mar 25, 2022)

BobL said:


> I wouldn't let that stop you - just take it a bit slower and you should be fine.


I'll give it a shot tomorrow. In my noobish way I was under the impression running a full chisel with 30 degree angle would be some sort of sin LOL.


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## BlackCoffin (Mar 25, 2022)

I prefer running 30 degree angles, let’s me use all my chains for more than just milling. If I have the horsepower it really cuts and throws some sawdust. I think finish is a moot argument, either way the wood has to be further finished anyway. If I can cut fast with non milling angles then I’d rather have that.

Now milling chain does serve its purpose though so don’t think you can just abandon it. Play around a bit, that’s how you learn and find what works best for you!


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## windblown (Mar 27, 2022)

I touched up an almost new full chisel loop and gave it a shot. It seemed to cut pretty smoothly in spots but would get rough in others (possibly just bad technique that semi-chisel ripping chain masks). Anyway, I opted to put my remaining ripping chain loop on the saw even though it was missing a few teeth following contact with a buried nail after cleaning it up on the grinder and it gave me a better finish and it lasted through the last log for the year. Ended up with approx 500 BF stacked up. Time will tell how much becomes suitable for some interior projects some day.


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## AZWoodworker (Apr 24, 2022)

windblown said:


> My weapons of choice to date are the Granberg Alaskan Mill for slabs. It does a great job of making nice smooth repeatable slabs which all depends on the ever important first cut. I found setting up an Alaskan Mill for the first cut to be cumbersome


I have the Alaskan mill. Hated the ladder system and did not see the one they sell much better. Decided to go with a system of a Canadian guy which uses bracket plates that screw to the ends of the log and support two 2.5-inch tube steel. This is a fast system. I have two 076's so leave one in the larger Granberg and try not to do many changes to the height. I use the shorter Granberg once I get a 90-degree to get boards. I also use a 4 ft sperber mill that runs two chain saws for thick logs and slabs.

I see you have a tractor. I use a Large lighting Truss I put on a large dolly so I can get the log up so I am not bending down. The Crank that Grandberg sells moves the project along. Those saw horses seem the right height but I have to turn the log at least once. I use material lifts and hoists for that. Not perfected yet, but getting better. Hope to get a forklift. If I am lucky to get a large number of logs I have been finding someone with a Logasol, but even that I have trouble. I have had two different loads of logs sitting at two different mills for over two months, but back and forth calls still have not been scheduled in a time. I have one faithful that I go to but it is an hr away. 

I am negotiating with a jet cutting metal company that has about 1/2 acre near my house to place a band saw. Still have not worked out how far to go with this which will determine what type I get. I hear you on the space. I have filled My urban backyard with stacks of lumber. I have enough now to do some serious furniture and live-edge tables, while I contemplate how much milling I need to do. Love it though. Just love the chainsaws and milling logs. Still keeping my day job, but have good hopes. 








I also use


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## TRTermite (May 4, 2022)

windblown said:


> That's a stout looking attachment! I imagine the weight helps keep the saw settled. Does having long rollers riding on the guide bar give you trouble with saw dust build up?
> 
> I'm coming to the likely obvious conclusion I may need to bite the bullet and get away from wood as a guide bar solution if I want to get consistent results without a lot of fussing around. I'll see how the plywood one I made performs and how long it lasts. In the meantime I'm keeping my eyes peeled for some cheap metal or a yardsale aluminum ladder for to experiment with.


Any thoughts of using LVL planks/beams?


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## J D (May 4, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> Any thoughts of using LVL planks/beams?


I had one, it sagged a bit over 3m so I attached aluminum angle to each side. That worked well until it got rained on & dried with a slight twist


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## windblown (May 5, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> Any thoughts of using LVL planks/beams?


That would be an interesting alternative though like any wood it is going to tend to move a little over time left unsupported. The challenge with all the rigs that only attach at one point on the bar is that a 1 degree change in angle works out to about a 1/4" of shift one foot out on the bar so it takes very little movement to throw off the cut on the far side of the blade substantially. The rig I made is currently hanging from the rafters in the garage. I'm hoping I'll be able to use it again this winter but I'm not counting on it.


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## Charlie Coyote (Jul 13, 2022)

BobL said:


> The will definitely work on steel. What they won't detect is everything else I seem to hit. rocks, glass, ceramics, and even a lump of concrete I found in eh middle of a of a branch union.
> 
> I started out in 2007 with a little home made alaskan (max 24" Bar) and when I made my bigger all Ally mill that could take a 42" bar I thought I'd never use the small alaskan again but I have still used it quite a bit for smaller logs. It's a bit more portable and I can use it in my inner city (we're 1 mile from the CBD) pocket handkerchief back garden. I do this during working hours when everyone else is at work. Short logs have very short cut times so its not like it goes on-and-on-and-on. So far no complaints from anyone. I was expecting a complaint from an ornery artist type who lives a few houses away as we have had run ins with him before over dod barking issues but nit a peep.
> 
> View attachment 975562


Your pictures are very helpful in seeing what's described. 101 pictures have all disappeared and it's hard to visualize what is being said in most of the posts.


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## BobL (Jul 13, 2022)

Charlie Coyote said:


> Your pictures are very helpful in seeing what's described. 101 pictures have all disappeared and it's hard to visualize what is being said in most of the posts.


In 2012 during a forum software upgrade all the forum pictures were accidentally lost - this also happened on many other forums all around the world that use the same forum software . few years later I obtained special permission to go back and reinsert my pictures. I reckon round 1500 of my pics were lost and putting them all back is no mean task but have managed to reinserted about 500 of them. I've tried to prioritise pictures I thing are most relevant, If you find a post of mine with missing pictures just let me know and I will reinsert them. Sorry I cannot do anything about other members missing pics.


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## Charlie Coyote (Jul 13, 2022)

Sounds like IT pros at it again creating job security or elimination with their shoddy software updates.


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## BobL (Jul 15, 2022)

Charlie Coyote said:


> Sounds like IT pros at it again creating job security or elimination with their shoddy software updates.


I'm not sure about the AS forum software but another forum where I post, the admins said during the upgrade a "Retain image directory paths" check box was by default unchecked so the images weren't actually lost but all the pathways were lost so little or no images could be linked to their respective messages.


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