# Miller Mod Saws and the Echo CS-500P



## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

Well boys I'm gonna put my 2 cents in before I start. This thread is going strong on a couple other forums. As many of you know all of builders got the boot so to speak. However I promised several guys I would do this build thread and I am a man of my word. Unfortunately for this site there most likely won't be to many other builders input on this saw. So your gonna see what gains I get. As this is the first build of this saw for me. That all said enjoy the thread and hopefully we can make a runner of this saw. Here's my guinea pigs.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

Tear down pics.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)




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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)




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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)




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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)




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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)




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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)




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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)




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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

And here the part that sucks.as a builder I enjoy the knowledge that other builders share as they have tried something different. You can always learn something from someone else if your willing to listen. That said here's my first attempt right or wrong I had a descent gain.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

Stock number! 
Squish .043"
Comp 170
Exhaust 120
Trans 131
Intake 70 at big opening 82 at point.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

This saw has I dome pistion in it and an equally weird combustion chamber. I start by taking .030 off the base and reseting squish to .020" know on this saw I cut my squish band at a 3° angle to accommodate the dome piston.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

The intake. Well it be weird. It was at 43% width when I started. I opened it up to 55% angling the top corners down to allow for plenty of ring end location cleareance. The main of the intake now opens at roughly 73° tapering quickly to 85°. I call it the superman intake. Lol.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

The transfers well there a mofo. I could not mtch the intake side trans. ND when I got them ground it left a nasty transfer tunnel. Fortunately on this saw I could pull the covers and fix the tunnels. Couple pics of the ugly tunnels as I progressed!


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

Now I actually lengthened the blow down as I raised the trans. I set these at 125. Here's the final pics of the tunnel covers and ports


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

The exhaust was at 55% width. I widened it to 65% and raised it to 110.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

So final numbers are 110/125/73-85. And after about 5 min run time and cool down this is where my comp landed!


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

I forgot to the pre exhaust mod pics. But basically I took the deflector off pulled the screen and restrictive tube out of the muffler. Opened the front of the deflector and reinstalled!


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## Sam_choq (Jan 16, 2016)

Have you let one stock for comparision ?


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## jetmd (Jan 16, 2016)

Way to go Carl. Good to see you working on this new project!

Nice job documenting you work and progress.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

Sam_choq said:


> Have you let one stock for comparision ?


I almost did. The one I modded had a few tanks of fuel threw it. The other one is brand new. However there's a pretty good gain to be had from just a muffler mod. So saw 1 in the vid is only muffler modded. Saw 2 is ported. I wanted to know what the porting gained!


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## Sam_choq (Jan 16, 2016)

Wich vid?


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

Sam_choq said:


> Wich vid?


It's coming!


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

Before I post this vid I roughly got a 25-30% gain. Now that said the vid isn't that impressive. I ran the ported saw most of the day and it's much more impressive in the size of woods it's ment to cut. I'm running the stock 20" bar .325 safety chain. The bar for mine is 18" .325 full chisel and it cuts suoer nice over the stock saw in smaller wood. But here she is.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

cs-500p muffler modded vs ported. 20" bar .325 in oak.


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## marti384 (Jan 16, 2016)

Why do they shape the intake like that?


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## fordf150 (Jan 16, 2016)

Don't worry Carl... There are more builders in the wings just waiting. Keep posting here and it will surprise you how many people will chime in. Even with all the bickering this site still has 100x the traffic of most other sites


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

marti384 said:


> Why do they shape the intake like that?


I've been told it's to cut down on the intake saw noise but idk. These saws while being the lightest in there class are not please to run stock. The are under powered and blahhhh. IMO. But i cut hedge trimming and blocking with the smaller bar better chain and it is really nice to run now. Still room for improvement I do believe. I didn't time them but I'd say it's well over 40% gains over a bone stock saw!


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## fordf150 (Jan 16, 2016)

Intake is interesting. What is the reasoning for the pointed intake. Ports opening and closing quickly is the goal in most engines


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> Don't worry Carl... There are more builders in the wings just waiting. Keep posting here and it will surprise you how many people will chime in. Even with all the bickering this site still has 100x the traffic of most other sites


I am guessing that's in for a change. You know the other sites I be talking about and you have probably seen the build threads are just getting awesome. Several joint build threads to come between the builders. But that said. We will see. I just live building the saws and will share what I learn with whom ever wants to listen. But i sure do love comparing builds with Mike Lee, Randy, Tree Monkey,. It goes on and on. And most of them have left as well. And these are all guys I hold in high respect! I think Brad is still here though. And we have compared notes along this journey!


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## fordf150 (Jan 16, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> I've been told it's to cut down on the intake saw noise but idk. These saws while being the lightest in there class are not please to run stock. The are under powered and blahhhh. IMO. But i cut hedge trimming and blocking with the smaller bar better chain and it is really nice to run now. Still room for improvement I do believe. I didn't time them but I'd say it's well over 40% gains over a bone stock saw!


When talking to customers I call them a really strong 40cc saw. Guess your impression of them is about the same as mine. Very well built, balance nice, small and nimble.... Just needs a little massaging to get them up on power


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## fordf150 (Jan 16, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> I am guessing that's in for a change. You know the other sites I be talking about and you have probably seen the build threads are just getting awesome. Several joint build threads to come between the builders. But that said. We will see. I just live building the saws and will share what I learn with whom ever wants to listen. But i sure do love comparing builds with Mike Lee, Randy, Tree Monkey,. It goes on and on. And most of them have left as well. And these are all guys I hold in high respect! I think Brad is still here though. And we have compared notes along this journey!


I know the site but have not seen any of the threads over there.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> Intake is interesting. What is the reasoning for the pointed intake. Ports opening and closing quickly is the goal in most engines


I'm not sure. Intake noise is what I'm told. The next build I'm seriously considering epoxy. We will see. Nice thing about epoxy is it can be taken back out if it's a no go! But we will see


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## fordf150 (Jan 16, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> I'm not sure. Intake noise is what I'm told. The next build I'm seriously considering epoxy. We will see. Nice thing about epoxy is it can be taken back out if it's a no go! But we will see


Just my $0.02. Epoxy will be a great thing to help in R&D but I will pass on it for internal use on work saw. Just something about the idea of it turns me off


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> Just my $0.02. Epoxy will be a great thing to help in R&D but I will pass on it for internal use on work saw. Just something about the idea of it turns me off


I agree! But some saws like the 661cm you just dont have a great choice if you want good gains. This saw is built without epoxy and those gains at least make it a contender in the 50cc class saw. Where it goes from here. We will see!


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## Sam_choq (Jan 16, 2016)

thanks for the vid , nice to see comparision vs good tune saw and ported , huge gain


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

Sam_choq said:


> thanks for the vid , nice to see comparision vs good tune saw and ported , huge gain


No prob. The next steps will involve the saws coming apart several times. So it will be a slow process. But i will drag this thread back from the dead to give you guys any updates. And I'm always open for some good comperative thinking if you guys have thought, opinions, or experience with this model. Heck with any thing I do. Many people building on one saw will always make for a better runner for end customers.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

@fordf150 I'm told this saw and the new version the cs-490 are basically the same. Would you jump in here and gives us the low down and maybe the cost of a new one. Thanks my man.


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## blsnelling (Jan 16, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> But some saws like the 661cm you just dont have a great choice if you want good gains.


My testing has shown the opposite to be true.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> My testing has shown the opposite to be true.


And i like this. If our opinions didn't vary a little bit our saws would be the same. But in any builds the combination of knowledge can be what helps us all learn more.


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## blsnelling (Jan 16, 2016)

I may have missed it, but did you post before and after port timing? I saw that you raised the exhaust to 110, but what was it stock?


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> I may have missed it, but did you post before and after port timing? I saw that you raised the exhaust to 110, but what was it stock?


120/131/70-82.


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## CoreyB (Jan 16, 2016)

I would like to request a video, 
I wold like to see a 421 mm vs the 500 or 490 mm


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## blsnelling (Jan 16, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> 120/131/70-82.


120?!!! Wow. That is amazingly low! And what are you at now after porting?


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> 120?!!! Wow. That is amazingly low! And what are you at now after porting?


110/125/73-85.


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## fordf150 (Jan 16, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> @fordf150 I'm told this saw and the new version the cs-490 are basically the same. Would you jump in here and gives us the low down and maybe the cost of a new one. Thanks my man.



Just a thread I read earlier tonight that someone has compared part number. It's basically the old 500p. I checked cylinder numbers awhile back and they are the same. $349 new.


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## bikemike (Jan 16, 2016)

Is there a baffle plate in the canister?


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## blsnelling (Jan 16, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> 120/131/70-82.





MillerModSaws said:


> 110/125/73-85.


With this not being a strato, I wonder if it would like a little more blowdown. That blowdown is like a 550XP, which has less blowdown than any other saw I've modded. I'm wondering how it might respond to 106/125/73-85.

Have you widened the transfers? Have you given it any timing advance yet? You've got the torque. I'm just wondering if you can find any more RPMs in there.


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## bikemike (Jan 16, 2016)

in my recollection I have only seen about 32degrees max timing on any echo documentary that I have seen in the past. That's not much when looking for rpm


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 16, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> With this not being a strato, I wonder if it would like a little more blowdown. That blowdown is like a 550XP, which has less blowdown than any other saw I've modded. I'm wondering how it might respond to 106/125/73-85.
> 
> Have you widened the transfers? Have you given it any timing advance yet? You've got the torque. I'm just wondering if you can find any more RPMs in there.


We will fin out. One of these will end up that high. I just raised the trans. And they are widen kinda. The factory insert is narrower than the the cylinder openings. So you can see I've widened them a little. Theses trans are horrible to grind. And i have not tried timing. This was more first. Give it a shot and see what happens. Now to refine and see if I/we can get more.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Jan 17, 2016)

Great job, and nice pictures!


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## wde_1978 (Jan 17, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> View attachment 479110


Funky intake!? 



MillerModSaws said:


> cs-500p muffler modded vs ported. 20" bar .325 in oak.



The saw sounds as if it would like the 14-16" bar area much more, 20" (not buried) seems to be asking too much of that saw.

How much rpm's are these ECHO's running WOT, they sound a little slow in that video - could be the cameras microphone though.

Nice build threat!


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## hoskvarna (Jan 17, 2016)

CoreyB said:


> I would like to request a video,
> I wold like to see a 421 mm vs the 500 or 490 mm


I have a 421mm,if u come to the gtg this yr and somebody else would have a 500 u could run em.


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## CoreyB (Jan 17, 2016)

hoskvarna said:


> I have a 421mm,if u come to the gtg this yr and somebody else would have a 500 u could run em.


Which gtg the iowa?
I am fearful I will find out I NEED more saws.


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## hoskvarna (Jan 17, 2016)

Yes April 29&30


From the Hills


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## fordf150 (Jan 17, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> The intake. Well it be weird. It was at 43% width when I started. I opened it up to 55% angling the top corners down to allow for plenty of ring end location cleareance. The main of the intake now opens at roughly 73° tapering quickly to 85°. I call it the superman intake. Lol.



How do you decide to widen the intake and exhaust? curious as to how you balance out straight out flow with the velocity...larger ports loose vleocity and velocity is king. velocity keeps your fuel charge atomized among other things. Nascar doesnt get to over 100%VE with large ports. They do it with velocity so that the air charge continues to flow even after the pressure has changed. I have wondered this on a couple of your builds..you always talk about widening the intake/exhaust to the max that is possible with ring ends and such but is this through trial and error or just the blanket thought that larger is better?


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 17, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> How do you decide to widen the intake and exhaust? curious as to how you balance out straight out flow with the velocity...larger ports loose vleocity and velocity is king. velocity keeps your fuel charge atomized among other things. Nascar doesnt get to over 100%VE with large ports. They do it with velocity so that the air charge continues to flow even after the pressure has changed. I have wondered this on a couple of your builds..you always talk about widening the intake/exhaust to the max that is possible with ring ends and such but is this through trial and error or just the blanket thought that larger is better?


Mostly it's trial and error. And you look at the carb. Rule of thumb for me. The smaller the carb the more time it needs to fill the cranckcase. The larger the carb. The faster you can shut the intake down and aim for case compression. Which the more case compression you have the more velocity your gonna produce. But pretty much trial and error.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 17, 2016)

wde_1978 said:


> Funky intake!?
> 
> 
> The saw sounds as if it would like the 14-16" bar area much more, 20" (not buried) seems to be asking too much of that saw.
> ...


I agree on the bar length buy long cuts like that will tell you a lot about a saw. And if I can get it to pull that buried nicely just imagine what it'll do with a good bar and chain length. Lol. The first ported one gives it up at 13k wot. I think it's rev limited there however it dosnt drive my tac crazy like a normal rev limiter. We will see.


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## computeruser (Jan 17, 2016)

From the perspective of coming up with porting numbers and shaping ports, is there a difference in how you come up with a formula for a particular saw if you know in advance that a saw is being ported to increase short-bar versus long-bar performance? 

For this saw, for example, would you approach it differently if it was being built to only ever run say 13"/.325"/8t versus only 20"/.325"/7t versus a variety of bar/chain/sprocket combos?


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## fordf150 (Jan 17, 2016)

What is your thoughts on the domed pistons? I am not a fan of popups....right or wrong i always thought a flat top piston promoted a better flame front than a popup but seems like echo uses allot of domed pistons in their saws and while they dont have the hinderance of the popup i still wonder if flat wouldnt be better. any chance of an easy piston swap to get a flat top so that the squish can be cut square? of maybe mill off the dome? piston thick enough for that idea? i doubt it as most of the flat tops are pretty thin in the center and i bet these are no different. seen a few of them with holes punched through from using metal piston stops

I think the 590/600/620 all use domed pistons and i have replaced rings on quite a few echo trimmers that ran a domed piston

Maybe a domed piston doesnt effect transfer flow as badly as a popup since its still a smooth transition and is actually directing the flow up into the chamber


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## fordf150 (Jan 17, 2016)

OK so i checked into the 500p and 490
First thing is that the 490 has only been out for a few months and Echo has already put a serial break in the parts  I dont know why they insist on changing stuff so much. 

Cylinder on the 490 and 500 is the same $99
piston is the same $66.83
crankcase assembly is different...not sure what that is but maybe it has something to do with the chain tensioner changing
both saws come with a walbro wt-1009 carb that has a 13.5mm venturi....just for reference a dolmar 5105 has a zama c1q with a 13.5mm venturi


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## quotedraven (Jan 17, 2016)

My 500 has been bulletproof. I just modded the muffler and it does all that is needed. Great all around limbing saw.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 17, 2016)

computeruser said:


> From the perspective of coming up with porting numbers and shaping ports, is there a difference in how you come up with a formula for a particular saw if you know in advance that a saw is being ported to increase short-bar versus long-bar performance?
> 
> For this saw, for example, would you approach it differently if it was being built to only ever run say 13"/.325"/8t versus only 20"/.325"/7t versus a variety of bar/chain/sprocket combos?


Yes and no. I do port them different for different users. I do not make logger saw as hot as I do a wood cutters. More rounded corners, little less comp, etc. And usually a lower exhaust as most of them like there power down low.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 17, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> What is your thoughts on the domed pistons? I am not a fan of popups....right or wrong i always thought a flat top piston promoted a better flame front than a popup but seems like echo uses allot of domed pistons in their saws and while they dont have the hinderance of the popup i still wonder if flat wouldnt be better. any chance of an easy piston swap to get a flat top so that the squish can be cut square? of maybe mill off the dome? piston thick enough for that idea? i doubt it as most of the flat tops are pretty thin in the center and i bet these are no different. seen a few of them with holes punched through from using metal piston stops
> 
> I think the 590/600/620 all use domed pistons and i have replaced rings on quite a few echo trimmers that ran a domed piston
> 
> Maybe a domed piston doesnt effect transfer flow as badly as a popup since its still a smooth transition and is actually directing the flow up into the chamber


The dome is only 2.5mm thick. So won't be not cutting it flat. However pistion swap well its could happen but for s work saw I believe for the most part the parts should be left oem.


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 17, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> OK so i checked into the 500p and 490
> First thing is that the 490 has only been out for a few months and Echo has already put a serial break in the parts  I dont know why they insist on changing stuff so much.
> 
> Cylinder on the 490 and 500 is the same $99
> ...


Thank you!


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## quotedraven (Jan 17, 2016)

This saw came out a while ago and masterminds thread was way more convincing that I needed a port job.


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## fordf150 (Jan 17, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> The dome is only 2.5mm thick. So won't be not cutting it flat. However pistion swap well its could happen but for s work saw I believe for the most part the parts should be left oem.


I understand that as well. 5 or 10 yrs from now when that saw needs a new piston, being able to go to the local dealer and buy one off the shelf and install it is important to allot of people including me. i was just brainstorming on ways to end up with a flat top piston. domed pistons cant be real easy to get good numbers out of...the normal way of marking the cylinder is push a ring in with the piston but a domed piston holds the ring up slightly from the true edge of the piston. since i just had that idea...how in the world do you get a good mark on the cylinder wall with domed pistons???


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## fordf150 (Jan 17, 2016)

quotedraven said:


> This saw came out a while ago and masterminds thread was way more convincing that I needed a port job.


did randy do one of these? i remember him doing a 5000 or something similar...back when echo's were grey in color. he called it the 346 killer.


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## quotedraven (Jan 17, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> did randy do one of these? i remember him doing a 5000 or something similar...back when echo's were grey in color. he called it the 346 killer.


Yes he did he has shinier pics search it


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## MillerModSaws (Jan 17, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> I understand that as well. 5 or 10 yrs from now when that saw needs a new piston, being able to go to the local dealer and buy one off the shelf and install it is important to allot of people including me. i was just brainstorming on ways to end up with a flat top piston. domed pistons cant be real easy to get good numbers out of...the normal way of marking the cylinder is push a ring in with the piston but a domed piston holds the ring up slightly from the true edge of the piston. since i just had that idea...how in the world do you get a good mark on the cylinder wall with domed pistons???


I get it and there a very easy pistion. I would bet there's a flat top replacement that's close. When finding your numbers your correct. You just have to keep good notes. I still use the ring but double check everything with the flashlight. So you port it with a ring and record both variables. Fortuntently this dome isn't real agressive so your numbers arnt off that far.


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## fordf150 (Jan 17, 2016)

quotedraven said:


> Yes he did he has shinier pics search it


will look it up sometime. thanks.


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## rburg (Jan 17, 2016)

Randy did a 520 echo that was gray that was mentioned as a 346 killer.


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## blsnelling (Jan 17, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> What is your thoughts on the domed pistons? I am not a fan of popups....right or wrong i always thought a flat top piston promoted a better flame front than a popup but seems like echo uses allot of domed pistons in their saws and while they dont have the hinderance of the popup i still wonder if flat wouldnt be better. any chance of an easy piston swap to get a flat top so that the squish can be cut square? of maybe mill off the dome? piston thick enough for that idea? i doubt it as most of the flat tops are pretty thin in the center and i bet these are no different. seen a few of them with holes punched through from using metal piston stops
> 
> I think the 590/600/620 all use domed pistons and i have replaced rings on quite a few echo trimmers that ran a domed piston
> 
> Maybe a domed piston doesnt effect transfer flow as badly as a popup since its still a smooth transition and is actually directing the flow up into the chamber


One of the possible issues I see with cutting the squishband is how much you have to raise the transfers. I don't have enough evidence to support this theory, but I wonder if it's not a hindrance to performance. I recently saw this mentioned by someone else, and it's something I've wondered about as well.


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## Sam_choq (Jan 17, 2016)

Projection of the air more in intake side or exhaust side by de transfer port can change anything ? evacu more burning air in sucking fresh air


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## Idahonative (Jan 17, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> did randy do one of these? i remember him doing a 5000 or something similar...back when echo's were grey in color. he called it the 346 killer.



http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/mastermind-meets-the-echo-cs500p.188048/#post-3337250

Stock:


Ported:


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## Chris-PA (Jan 17, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> Stock number!
> Squish .043"
> Comp 170
> Exhaust 120 (duration = 120)
> ...


Now we get a glimpse of how Echo is dealing with emissions. I recently measured the timing on a pre-strato Poulan and it had strange numbers too, but different from this - except for the short blowdown. I have an idea what that's about and have been considering making a thread on it. I'll have to ponder these numbers.

That looks to be a Walbro WT carb? Do you have the model number or know the venturi diameter?

This is what I mean when I write about strato being a performance enhancement. Those numbers cannot be optimum for power, and that WT is not going to compare to the intake opening area of a typical strato. 

Last, I think that tapered intake may be intended to reduce spit back. While a nice flat opening is good for power because it uncovers area very fast as the port opens, it creates a very strong pressure wave as it opens and closes. I've wondered why the factory intakes don't seem to be flat.


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## fordf150 (Jan 17, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Now we get a glimpse of how Echo is dealing with emissions. I recently measured the timing on a pre-strato Poulan and it had strange numbers too, but different from this - except for the short blowdown. I have an idea what that's about and have been considering making a thread on it. I'll have to ponder these numbers.
> 
> That looks to be a Walbro WT carb? Do you have the model number or know the venturi diameter?
> 
> ...


Wt-1009 13.5mm venturi


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## Chris-PA (Jan 17, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> Wt-1009 13.5mm venturi


Thanks - that's the biggest and I figured that's what would be on it. For reference, my 40cc Husqvarna 142 has the same size carb stock. It may be a bit of a bottleneck in this build.


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## fordf150 (Jan 17, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Thanks - that's the biggest and I figured that's what would be on it. For reference, my 40cc Husqvarna 142 has the same size carb stock. It may be a bit of a bottleneck in this build.


Idk... Dolly 5105 is a zama c1q 13.5mm and it is top of the 50cc class for out of the box torque. Of course a small carb helps the bottom end and there have been reports that the 5105 respond well to a larger carb


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## bikemike (Jan 17, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> OK so i checked into the 500p and 490
> First thing is that the 490 has only been out for a few months and Echo has already put a serial break in the parts  I dont know why they insist on changing stuff so much.
> 
> Cylinder on the 490 and 500 is the same $99
> ...


Wow that's a small carb. My husky 136 36cc has a walbro wt540 with .530" 13.4 something mm venturi 
punch the venturi out a bit to drop a bigger test carb on it


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## fordf150 (Jan 17, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Wow that's a small carb. My husky 136 36cc has a walbro wt540 with .530" 13.4 something mm venturi View attachment 479477
> punch the venturi out a bit to drop a bigger test carb on it


13.49mm. To some extent there is more than just venturi size that determines flow. Not familiar with that carb but some of these carbs have a nozzle that protrudes quite far out into the venturi


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## bikemike (Jan 18, 2016)

My echo 360t 36cc has a venturi opening stock at
it was much smaller bore than the 201Turd so I punched it out to this and saw took nice to it. Idle mid range transition and wot. It was tested in below 0 Temps ran a tank through it and no problems 
my opinion on why a properly tuned echo last so long is cause they equip them to be under powered


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## bikemike (Jan 18, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> 13.49mm. To some extent there is more than just venturi size that determines flow. Not familiar with that carb but some of these carbs have a nozzle that protrudes quite far out into the venturi


Yeah that is the fuel delivery nozzle or atomizer for the high circuit. From what I seen in the ported pics I think the saw could use a bigger carb if it only has half an inch to suck through. One set of transfer ports alone can handle everything that carb has to offer


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## Chris-PA (Jan 18, 2016)

That WT is not uncommon on 50cc saws - the RedMax G5000 had one too, as well as others. It would be fine with the stock porting here too. If you were not changing the carb then it might determine how you go with the port timing, focusing more on lower rpm power.


----------



## bikemike (Jan 18, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> That WT is not uncommon on 50cc saws - the RedMax G5000 had one too, as well as others. It would be fine with the stock porting here too. If you were not changing the carb then it might determine how you go with the port timing, focusing more on lower rpm power.


Yeah in comparison with the 026 stihl they look very choked off vs stihl. I think a small carb can still perform good. The saw in the vid had a nice improvement to it


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

Let's finish this thread up boys. 

I will tell you we flat ran out of carb. This saw will only turn a little over 13k unloaded. Just needs more carb but that said they turned out really nice. I'm gonna tell ya where I landed on both saws and then we can discuss.


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

Saw #1 
I took .030 from the base
Cut the squish on a 3° angle and reset to .020
I epoxied the intake it's set at 62% width
The exhaust is at 65% width and I raised the roof and floor of the exit about 1mm each. 
Has a dual port muffler
108/123/75ish
This is the stronger of the 2 saws however that said it also has more runtime on it
Both saws are holding around 11800 in the cut this saw just holds it much easier


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

Saw#2
Took .035 from the base
Cut squish the same
Exhaust is the same
Muffler the same
The intake is untouched on this saw
108/124/86 is the numbers in her. 
Like I said this saw dosnt hold the rpm quite as well but it maybe the fact of less run time! Both are running pretty identical other than that.


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

Idk how many of ya get to cut this fabulous wood. But in my neck of the woods ain't nothing that'll kill a saws power faster the hedge. Lol. I'll try and get a final vid but I need to order up a new chain. Put me some lgx on her and throw her in some oak to give ya a good vid.


----------



## bikemike (Feb 1, 2016)

Looks good. Echos take a while to free up..
What epoxy are you using for the intake?


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Looks good. Echos take a while to free up..
> What epoxy are you using for the intake?


Well. I actually tried some new stuff here. This one has the morso/edelbrock A B epoxy in it. But take your pic. These are the 3 I have been plating with!


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 1, 2016)

Running 9,500 to 10,000rpm in the cut under load. Probably not much more that can be done given the limited size of the carb.


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Running 9,500 to 10,000rpm in the cut under load. Probably not much more that can be done given the limited size of the carb.


Good thing these are running more. As you see it going threw that hedge there maintaining 11600-11800 pretty good. Dog it in and pull it threw you'll pull them down to the 11200 range.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 1, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> Good thing these are running more. As you see it going threw that hedge there maintaining 11600-11800 pretty good. Dog it in and pull it threw you'll pull them down to the 11200 range.


I'm afraid it's only running 9,500 to 10,000rpm in that video. Below is a sample from the first cut, but they're all pretty similar. 

I was not implying that you didn't do a good job with it at all. It's just that when you start with a 50cc saw that has porting as compromised as this one (in order to avoid paying for the rights to use strato) along with a WT of limited size, it takes a lot of mods to make it work well. I know some want to believe Echo has some magic formula and really smart engineers that allows them to do so much better than those saws that need strato to meet emissions, but the reality shows otherwise. With a lot of work you've made this a decent saw.


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> I'm afraid it's only running 9,500 to 10,000rpm in that video. Below is a sample from the first cut, but they're all pretty similar.
> 
> I was not implying that you didn't do a good job with it at all. It's just that when you start with a 50cc saw that has porting as compromised as this one (in order to avoid paying for the rights to use strato) along with a WT of limited size, it takes a lot of mods to make it work well. I know some want to believe Echo has some magic formula and really smart engineers that allows them to do so much better than those saws that need strato to meet emissions, but the reality shows otherwise. With a lot of work you've made this a decent saw.
> 
> View attachment 482921


And this is where I will end the discussions and go back to my other forums. I don't have some fancy computer system to tell me what it's running. I simply put a tac on it and watch the rpm. 
I can also tell you Randy was kind enough to post his results on the other forum and our numbers ended up really close. And his statement was his saw would hold 11500-12000. I have no reason for lying. And I'm happy to let anyone around me come play with this saw and see the results for themselves.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 1, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> And this is where I will end the discussions and go back to my other forums. I don't have some fancy computer system to tell me what it's running. I simply put a tac on it and watch the rpm.
> I can also tell you Randy was kind enough to post his results on the other forum and our numbers ended up really close. And his statement was his saw would hold 11500-12000. I have no reason for lying. And I'm happy to let anyone around me come play with this saw and see the results for themselves.


Good grief, I certainly never thought, said or implied you were lying. Quite frankly it's pretty obvious just from listening that saw is not turning over 11,000rpm under load, and the fancy computer system is just an audio spectrum plot. It's a shame a simple technical discussion gets someone so upset.

You did a good job getting what you did out of that saw given the starting point, it's just that it isn't magic and there are still limitations to the design (primarily the carb), as you have recognized and was clear from the beginning. What did you expect from it?


----------



## bikemike (Feb 1, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Good grief, I certainly never thought, said or implied you were lying. Quite frankly it's pretty obvious just from listening that saw is not turning over 11,000rpm under load, and the fancy computer system is just an audio spectrum plot. It's a shame a simple technical discussion gets someone so upset.
> 
> You did a good job getting what you did out of that saw given the starting point, it's just that it isn't magic and there are still limitations to the design (primarily the carb), as you have recognized and was clear from the beginning. What did you expect from it?


Can someone send a pic of the back of the carb looking down the bore


----------



## quotedraven (Feb 1, 2016)

Funny I had mine spinning at 16000 when it was very cold those shindaiwa motors are very tight. Just a muffler mod. Dont worry I got it down to 13000


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

Ok the statement earlier made me severely mad. I build saws cause I love to. Not for a living! If i took the statements wrong than I appoligize. I'm here to show what I've learned and nothing more!


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 1, 2016)

But where's your engineering degree carl??

What about the cool looking, colorful snapshot of your computer screen?


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 1, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Good grief, I certainly never thought, said or implied you were lying. Quite frankly it's pretty obvious just from listening that saw is not turning over 11,000rpm under load, and the fancy computer system is just an audio spectrum plot. It's a shame a simple technical discussion gets someone so upset.
> 
> You did a good job getting what you did out of that saw given the starting point, it's just that it isn't magic and there are still limitations to the design (primarily the carb), as you have recognized and was clear from the beginning. What did you expect from it?


The red is where you're crawfishin'.. Cause you said 9500-10,000 in your post.
The blue is where you project fault of the inaccuracy of your findings and Carl's reaction to said findings back on to Carl for be annoyed at your obnoxious behavior... 

So in other words...
Eh..
Never mind.


Carry on...


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 1, 2016)

quotedraven said:


> Funny I had mine spinning at 16000 when it was very cold those shindaiwa motors are very tight. Just a muffler mod. Dont worry I got it down to 13000


I have one..
I couldn't get 16,000 out of it for anything...
Anyone ever find out what the coil is limited to?
Or is it unlimited?


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> But where's your engineering degree carl??
> 
> What about the cool looking, colorful snapshot of your computer screen?


I don't have all that. All I have is how it feels in my hands, a tac, and how it sounds. 
Everytime I build something I learn. Everytime I go to a gtg I learn what others like. And try to apply that to how I build saws!


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> I have one..
> I couldn't get 16,000 out of it for anything...
> Anyone ever find out what the coil is limited to?
> Or is it unlimited?


There not limited. Unless your calling the carb limited. Or if there limited I ain't hit it yet. You can see in the vid 13100. I can lean it out and grab about 13350 but that's it. It gives it up!


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 1, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> I don't have all that. All I have is how it feels in my hands, a tac, and how it sounds.
> Everytime I build something I learn. Everytime I go to a gtg I learn what others like. And try to apply that to how I build saws!



Carl that piece of paper don't make the world go round It's the guys that get there hands dirty. Not the smart asses.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 1, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> Ok the statement earlier made me severely mad. I build saws cause I love to. Not for a living! If i took the statements wrong than I appoligize. I'm here to show what I've learned and nothing more!



Nothing I posted was intended to make you mad or be malicious - in fact it took me some effort to download your file, run it through the software, take a screenshot and post it. Getting a saw to run under load at over 11,000k isn't easy, and when you can hear that it isn't holding revs (as even you pointed out), it's reasonable to be skeptical.

It was difficult to get a good reading with the short bursts and not being able to see the cut. Judging by the chips starting at about 23s I figured that was when you were cutting. I looked at each of the 3 2sec cuts and they were all about the same at 11,600rpm:




Was each of those a complete cut? What diameter was that wood?


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 1, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> But where's your engineering degree carl??
> 
> What about the cool looking, colorful snapshot of your computer screen?





Hedgerow said:


> The red is where you're crawfishin'.. Cause you said 9500-10,000 in your post.
> The blue is where you project fault of the inaccuracy of your findings and Carl's reaction to said findings back on to Carl for be annoyed at your obnoxious behavior...
> 
> So in other words...
> ...


Gee, was this thread about you, or are you just on loan for whining and crying? What I wrote was perfectly clear, but apparently you're as dumb as you are are thin skinned - or maybe you understood it just fine but are intentionally twisting what I wrote? 

Pi$$ off.


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 1, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Gee, was this thread about you, or are you just on loan for whining and crying? What I wrote was perfectly clear, but apparently you're as dumb as you are are thin skinned - or maybe you understood it just fine but are intentionally twisting what I wrote?
> 
> Pi$$ off.


Tell me that to my face ..


I dare ya..

Coward....


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 1, 2016)




----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 1, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Tell me that to my face ..
> 
> 
> I dare ya..
> ...


You and I will likely never meet, as I have a full and busy life and butt hurt internet trolls are not high on my priority list. But if we did and you behaved in person as poorly as you do behind your keyboard I'd tell you exactly what I thought of you to your face. You'd then be welcome to do something stupid. 

Don't you have somewhere else to go whine and cry about your hurt feelings? I don't care about you or what you think in the least.


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 1, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Gee, was this thread about you, or are you just on loan for whining and crying? What I wrote was perfectly clear, but apparently you're as dumb as you are are thin skinned - or maybe you understood it just fine but are intentionally twisting what I wrote?
> 
> Pi$$ off.





Hedgerow said:


> Tell me that to my face ..
> 
> 
> I dare ya..
> ...


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 1, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> You and I will likely never meet, as I have a full and busy life and butt hurt internet trolls are not high on my priority list. But if we did and you behaved in person as poorly as you do behind your keyboard I'd tell you exactly what I thought of you to your face. You'd then be welcome to do something stupid.
> 
> Don't you have somewhere else to go whine and cry about your hurt feelings? I don't care about you or what you think in the least.




Hedge is taller than a troll.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 1, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


>





WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Hedge is taller than a troll.


Is that you in the tights?


----------



## beentown (Feb 1, 2016)

Sometimes it is hard to believe grown men frequent this site.


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 1, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> You and I will likely never meet, as I have a full and busy life and butt hurt internet trolls are not high on my priority list. But if we did and you behaved in person as poorly as you do behind your keyboard I'd tell you exactly what I thought of you to your face. You'd then be welcome to do something stupid.
> 
> Don't you have somewhere else to go whine and cry about your hurt feelings? I don't care about you or what you think in the least.


You are a true internet hero..
I'm only a troll because I pointed out your post as obnoxious..
And you didn't like it..
Sorry buttercup..
Just called it like I saw it..


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 1, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> You are a true internet hero..
> I'm only a troll because I pointed out your post as obnoxious..
> And you didn't like it..
> Sorry buttercup..
> Just called it like I saw it..


Boy did you show me! What an ego you have.


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## bryanr2 (Feb 1, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> did randy do one of these? i remember him doing a 5000 or something similar...back when echo's were grey in color. he called it the 346 killer.



http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/mastermind-meets-the-echo-cs-520.188552/


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## idiotwithasaw (Feb 1, 2016)

Carl what kind of tach is this, and where can I get one. I've been wanting to get a decent tach for a while. My cheapie works, but be nice to have one I trust 100%


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## fordf150 (Feb 1, 2016)

idiotwithasaw said:


> Carl what kind of tach is this, and where can I get one. I've been wanting to get a decent tach for a while. My cheapie works, but be nice to have one I trust 100%


I use a tiny tach fast tach. Kind of expensive though


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## Toad22t (Feb 1, 2016)

It almost seems like there is a reoccurring problem around here! I just can't put my finger on it though.


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## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

bryanr2 said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/mastermind-meets-the-echo-cs-520.188552/


Well hello!


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## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

idiotwithasaw said:


> Carl what kind of tach is this, and where can I get one. I've been wanting to get a decent tach for a while. My cheapie works, but be nice to have one I trust 100%


Thats an oppama, but I have 3 of them. Also have an edt 7 stihl, and and a dti-20k.
All good tachs, I prefer for bench setting and speed reading the corded tachs as they respond better and are more stable.


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 1, 2016)

Sorry for the guys I have left hi and dry. I am keeping an eye on this thread but don't wish to continue. 

All the info I can give at this point I have gave and hope it's helpful! 

Thank you!


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## Toad22t (Feb 1, 2016)

So what's so difference between the 500 and the 600/620? I've heard that those respond very well with porting. Are the cylinder's the same design with these model's?


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## Cbob (Feb 1, 2016)

Well that went well


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## tree monkey (Feb 1, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Tell me that to my face ..
> 
> 
> I dare ya..
> ...



where can I get my front row tickets ?


----------



## bryanr2 (Feb 2, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> Well hello!


what's up brother?


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## bryanr2 (Feb 2, 2016)

tree monkey said:


> where can I get my front row tickets ?



my thoughts exactly.


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## DrewUth (Feb 2, 2016)

Could someone clarify why some of the builders are "leaving" this site? I must have missed something. Sorry in advance...


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## bikemike (Feb 2, 2016)

Drama my friend or old age


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## jmssaws (Feb 2, 2016)

This place is a joke,I'll see you on the good forum carl.

It's impossible to learn if you already know everything and this place has far to many know it all's. 

The biggest majority of the people on here have no idea what a strong saw is or how to build one. Think about it when you need some timing numbers for the hunk of **** your building and there's no one to help you.


----------



## quotedraven (Feb 2, 2016)

jmssaws said:


> This place is a joke,I'll see you on the good forum carl.
> 
> It's impossible to learn if you already know everything and this place has far to many know it all's.
> 
> The biggest majority of the people on here have no idea what a strong saw is or how to build one. Think about it when you need some timing numbers for the hunk of **** your building and there's no one to help you.


My 562xp is strong compared to the 500 but thats where my basis for comparison ends.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 2, 2016)

jmssaws said:


> This place is a joke,I'll see you on the good forum carl.
> 
> It's impossible to learn if you already know everything and this place has far to many know it all's.
> 
> The biggest majority of the people on here have no idea what a strong saw is or how to build one. Think about it when you need some timing numbers for the hunk of **** your building and there's no one to help you.


Oh no, don't hide the good timing numbers! Such drama! Is this what it's always like over at Ovaries, Pussies and Estrogen? 

What's pathetic is that no one was rude, disrespectful, unpleasant, or unkind to Carl in this entire thread. Rather he was complemented on doing some interesting mods and making a capable saw out of something with conaiderable limitations. But when I refuted (simply and without any personal attack) his over exuberant claims of 11,800rpm under load in that video, well then did we have tears and stamping of feet. Then the muscle showed up to ridicule and intimidate and try to parse sentances looking for a gotcha (as if I cared), and I was the big meannie. 

Yet if Brad had posted a vid claiming 11.8k under load and I showed it didn't get over 10k I'd have been everyone's friggin' hero and the whining and crying would have been epec. 

Here's the reality: every experienced porter over here crying that watches/listens to that video knows damn well it's not turning 11.8k in those cuts.


----------



## Toad22t (Feb 2, 2016)

Toad22t said:


> It almost seems like there is a reoccurring problem around here! I just can't put my finger on it though.





Chris-PA said:


> Oh no, don't hide the good timing numbers! Such drama! Is this what it's always like over at Ovaries, Pussies and Estrogen?
> 
> What's pathetic is that no one was rude, disrespectful, unpleasant, or unkind to Carl in this entire thread. Rather he was complemented on doing some interesting mods and making a capable saw out of something with conaiderable limitations. But when I refuted (simply and without any personal attack) his over exuberant claims of 11,800rpm under load in that video, well then did we have tears and stamping of feet. Then the muscle showed up to ridicule and intimidate and try to parse sentances looking for a gotcha (as if I cared), and I was the big meannie.
> 
> ...



Yup I found it! It's amazing that some people did a little vacation for talking bad or down to people and others are just able to keep on doing it! 

My love of chainsaws came from this site! I came here to find info on the one saw I had when I joined this site. Now look what it has become!

You can't say "oh here is another guy bashing on Brad or another builder! I have never bashed on Brad or hardly anyone that has been on here. But I tell you what I have never called anyone out and practically called them a lier unless I had solid facts! You never had solid facts except some messed up computer program and probally a video made off of a cell phone. But here you come all high and almighty trying to point out facts that you have no clue on. Hell I'll admit I have no clue on them either. But I'm not here being some jack wagon to the people that are trying to help. He was doing this thread per request from other members and to maybe show other members there is other saws besides husqvarna or stihl. Way to **** that up dumbass! Oh and by the way "I have a potty mouth"!


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 2, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Oh no, don't hide the good timing numbers! Such drama! Is this what it's always like over at Ovaries, Pussies and Estrogen?
> 
> What's pathetic is that no one was rude, disrespectful, unpleasant, or unkind to Carl in this entire thread. Rather he was complemented on doing some interesting mods and making a capable saw out of something with conaiderable limitations. But when I refuted (simply and without any personal attack) his over exuberant claims of 11,800rpm under load in that video, well then did we have tears and stamping of feet. Then the muscle showed up to ridicule and intimidate and try to parse sentances looking for a gotcha (as if I cared), and I was the big meannie.
> 
> ...



So how come the real experts didn't chime in. Oh one did and called BS.
Really don't think so every saw has it's own sound different muffler mod will make it sound different. Besides that Carl was cutting in solid wood.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 2, 2016)

Can I try to play moderator here without the masses coming down on me? Put the emotions aside and you'll see this for what it is. 

Chris did not say that this saw cannot or won't turn over 11K in the cut, he simple said it wasn't in that first video. A second video was posted demonstrating that it will. Play the two videos at the same time. Tell me what you hear. It's clear that the saw is turning way more RPMs in the second video. 

RPMs in the cut is highly subjective to the load put on the saw, whether it be from down force applied by the operator, or by cutting bigger wood. This here is simply a demonstration of that.

If we can put our emotions aside, the facts are obvious. This saw is clearly capable of turning over 11K with a light load in small wood. This is why I demonstrate a saw across it's powerband, showing it with light, medium, and heavy loads.

Several of you guys are simply here for the fight. You're doing nothing to contribute to this thread, to AS, or to Miller Mod Saws. You are not doing him a service by antagonizing the situation. Step back and let it go.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 2, 2016)

Toad22t said:


> You can't say "oh here is another guy bashing on Brad or another builder! I have never bashed on Brad or hardly anyone that has been on here.


What are you jabbering about? When did I ever say anything about you? I've never even heard of you.


----------



## Toad22t (Feb 2, 2016)

I'm not antagonizing ****! I'm here to see the thread! I'm calling out his ********. This isn't the first thread he has did this.

I have never had a problem with you Brad and still don't! You have answered questions of mine in threads that some just have passed by and I thank you for that. But its always "us" guys! I'm not saying I'm one of those guys but I take offense to the terms those guys, Riff Raff or antagonizers. Those guys have also helped me! I have seen the same **** go on in your threads and you would be just as offended as Carl was. 

So now here I am doing what I have tried to stay away from since the time I have joined this site. I miss the days if watching yours, Randy's, Stumpy's and other builders threads and everyone helping each other out. No I'm not blaming you or anyone else for the end but it is the end for alot of us "not so newbies" being around here and dealing with it. There is greener pastures I have found.


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 2, 2016)

Brad didn't realize you became a moderator.


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 2, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> What are you jabbering about? When did I ever say anything about you? I've never even heard of you.


You're digging your hole deeper buttercup..
Put the shovel down.


----------



## Toad22t (Feb 2, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Brad didn't realize you became a moderator.



Now Brad I believe was just trying to help calm everything down. There doesn't need to be another thread locked down.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 2, 2016)

Toad22t said:


> I have seen the same **** go on in your threads and you would be just as offended as Carl was.


You're right. I can certainly relate. That's why I'm here to try and help.


----------



## jmssaws (Feb 2, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Oh no, don't hide the good timing numbers! Such drama! Is this what it's always like over at Ovaries, Pussies and Estrogen?
> 
> What's pathetic is that no one was rude, disrespectful, unpleasant, or unkind to Carl in this entire thread. Rather he was complemented on doing some interesting mods and making a capable saw out of something with conaiderable limitations. But when I refuted (simply and without any personal attack) his over exuberant claims of 11,800rpm under load in that video, well then did we have tears and stamping of feet. Then the muscle showed up to ridicule and intimidate and try to parse sentances looking for a gotcha (as if I cared), and I was the big meannie.
> 
> ...


I don't give a damn what rpm it's turning nor would I ever be enough of a **** to tell someone what there saw was turning from watching a video,does it matter to you that much to call him out over it? Doesn't matter if you was trying to be a **** it's still being a **** none the less.
Anybody would be offended by being called a lier on a public forum.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 2, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> You're digging your hole deeper buttercup..
> Put the shovel down.


Aww gee sweetheart, thanks for the friendly advice. Good to know you've got my best intrests in mind. 



jmssaws said:


> Anybody would be offended by being called a lier on a public forum.


Go ahead and quote the part where I called anyone a liar. And when you cannot, let's see if you are man enough to appologize.


----------



## bikemike (Feb 2, 2016)

Wow why can't ppl speak free of opinions, facts, ideas. 
When some of us like Me are on this site posting some weird or bizarre chit maybe it's cause most ppl are on a 1 track mind set. Yall need ppl like me and a few others out there that think outside the box. Sometimes the weird or stupid sounding comments or statements might be the missing link to what most of you in the box are trying to accomplish. Half of you are getting soooo fed up soooo easily that it seams like a jerry springer show. Hey we are grown men n some women on this site let act like it. All you that are bickering are not bickering about saw related stuff, just he said she said crap.

I'm still waiting to get a good pic looking down the bore of the carb from the choke side. Can anyone that is butt hurt provide that? Or is it more dramatic chit talk?


----------



## bikemike (Feb 2, 2016)

Hope this helps


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 2, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Aww gee sweetheart, thanks for the friendly advice. Good to know you've got my best intrests in mind.
> 
> Go ahead and quote the part where I called anyone a liar. And when you cannot, let's see if you are man enough to appologize.


I got yer back buttercup...


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 2, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Wow why can't ppl speak free of opinions, facts, ideas.
> When some of us like Me are on this site posting some weird or bizarre chit maybe it's cause most ppl are on a 1 track mind set. Yall need ppl like me and a few others out there that think outside the box. Sometimes the weird or stupid sounding comments or statements might be the missing link to what most of you in the box are trying to accomplish. Half of you are getting soooo fed up soooo easily that it seams like a jerry springer show. Hey we are grown men n some women on this site let act like it. All you that are bickering are not bickering about saw related stuff, just he said she said crap.
> 
> I'm still waiting to get a good pic looking down the bore of the carb from the choke side. Can anyone that is butt hurt provide that? Or is it more dramatic chit talk?


The carb is too small...
Way too small...
Even Chris mentioned it...
Lol.


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## bikemike (Feb 2, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> The carb is too small...
> Way too small...
> Even Chris mentioned it...
> Lol.


I figured that. The carb is tiny on my top handle and even smaller on my old top handle. I believe echo does that for longevity reasons.


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## Deets066 (Feb 2, 2016)

IBTL


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## Chris-PA (Feb 2, 2016)

bikemike said:


> I figured that. The carb is tiny on my top handle and even smaller on my old top handle. I believe echo does that for longevity reasons.


It's a WT in the largest size they made them - there's a lot of variations in shafts and main nozzle outlets but they're all kinda simiar. You could hog it out some like the one you did, but there are limits to that. I have never done that. 

The RedMax G5000 was a 50cc saw that used a WT. The Chinese make a lot of clones of these, some up to 62cc. In conversations with Nenicu he found that the larger ones had a bigger carb. I have not seen what they did but perhaps that is an avenue to explore for a larger WT substitute.


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## Hedgerow (Feb 2, 2016)

Or a person could thin the shafts on the existing carb..
Just sayin...


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## Jon1212 (Feb 2, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Gee, was this thread about you, or are you just on loan for whining and crying? What I wrote was perfectly clear, but apparently you're as dumb as you are are thin skinned - or maybe you understood it just fine but are intentionally twisting what I wrote?
> 
> Pi$$ off.





Chris-PA said:


> You and I will likely never meet, as I have a full and busy life and butt hurt internet trolls are not high on my priority list. But if we did and you behaved in person as poorly as you do behind your keyboard I'd tell you exactly what I thought of you to your face. You'd then be welcome to do something stupid.
> 
> Don't you have somewhere else to go whine and cry about your hurt feelings? I don't care about you or what you think in the least.





Chris-PA said:


> Boy did you show me! What an ego you have.





Chris-PA said:


> Oh no, don't hide the good timing numbers! Such drama! Is this what it's always like over at Ovaries, Pussies and Estrogen?
> 
> What's pathetic is that no one was rude, disrespectful, unpleasant, or unkind to Carl in this entire thread. Rather he was complemented on doing some interesting mods and making a capable saw out of something with conaiderable limitations. But when I refuted (simply and without any personal attack) his over exuberant claims of 11,800rpm under load in that video, well then did we have tears and stamping of feet. Then the muscle showed up to ridicule and intimidate and try to parse sentances looking for a gotcha (as if I cared), and I was the big meannie.
> 
> ...





Chris-PA said:


> What are you jabbering about? When did I ever say anything about you? I've never even heard of you.





Chris-PA said:


> Aww gee sweetheart, thanks for the friendly advice. Good to know you've got my best intrests in mind.
> 
> Go ahead and quote the part where I called anyone a liar. And when you cannot, let's see if you are man enough to appologize.



Good grief! You sure do like to accuse lots of folks of whining, and being a troll. Looks like you certainly do quite a bit of that which you find so reprehensible.

You are by far one of the biggest keyboard commando pussies I've witnessed on AS. All talk, talk, talk, talk. You should run one of your E.E. programs to find out why you are such a hypocritical tool bag.


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## Hedgerow (Feb 2, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> Good grief! You sure do like to accuse lots of folks of whining, and being a troll. Looks like you certainly do quite a bit of that which you find so reprehensible.
> 
> You are by far one of the biggest keyboard commando pussies I've witnessed on AS. All talk, talk, talk, talk. You should run one of your E.E. programs to find out why your such a hypocritical tool bag.
> View attachment 483310


Ok..
I wasn't gonna say it...
But since you did...





Lol..


Sup Jon????


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## Jon1212 (Feb 2, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Ok..
> I wasn't gonna say it...
> But since you did...
> 
> ...



Nada mucho, Matt.

I really like the ignore feature over here on AS. It works very well, and I highly recommend its use for anyone looking to free themselves from that bag of dicks, known as Chris PA.


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## bryanr2 (Feb 3, 2016)




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## Hedgerow (Feb 3, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> Nada mucho, Matt.
> 
> I really like the ignore feature over here on AS. It works very well, and I highly recommend its use for anyone looking to free themselves from that bag of dicks, known as Chris PA.


Lol...
Just got done roughing out a chain for the barn raffle.. 
Don't want to let it sneak up on me!

Carry on!!!


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## KG441c (Feb 3, 2016)

. I ran a ported 7910 Carl massaged. It was an awesome saw to say the least. Im pretty sure it had no problem turning 11000+ in 28" wood and well beyond in smaller


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## idiotwithasaw (Feb 3, 2016)

I'm not sure how to feel about the direction this thread has taken. Whether to laugh or cry.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Feb 3, 2016)

KG441c said:


> . I ran a ported 7910 Carl massaged. It was an awesome saw to say the least. Im pretty sure it had no problem turning 11000+ in 28" wood and well beyond in smaller



I agree, he took care of my 7900's cylinder, and the saw is a beast. I can't wait to have wood big enough tu bury the bar and make some vids!


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## smokey7 (Feb 3, 2016)

I was gone for a few months , when I came back alot of the threads I was watching were locked or had gone terribly off track. I don't know what happened to make the owner pull the builders off the sponsor list. Or what caused so many to be banned or leave. I wish I knew. Would someone care to enlighten me on here or by pm. I miss all of the build threads and the failure threads. I love a good brain teaser. I also wish I knew what this "other forum" everyone is talking about. I do see how someone could get irritated having someone call em out over rpms. I think I would trust a tach that is at the location over a program listening to a video. Please keep the threads going that we all enjoy without all of the opinions that are upsetting so many people.


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## Chris-PA (Feb 3, 2016)

KG441c said:


> . I ran a ported 7910 Carl massaged. It was an awesome saw to say the least. Im pretty sure it had no problem turning 11000+ in 28" wood and well beyond in smaller





CapitaineHaddoc said:


> I agree, he took care of my 7900's cylinder, and the saw is a beast. I can't wait to have wood big enough tu bury the bar and make some vids!


And all that may very well be the case, as he made very good gains with this saw. But why do you feel that is relevant, and where did I or anyone say anything negative about his abilities to build a saw? A 7900/7910 is not a 500P.

RPM in the cut is not as important as cut speed, but if I had made a claim that was clearly erroneous I'd want to be informed so I could correct it. If you actually read the comment I made, that is all that happened. There was no personal attack, no malice or insult or anything implied about his abilities. I just told him what the real numbers were. Initially I figured it was a typo so I checked. All the rest of this hysterics is just the typical nonsense that's been going on here for years, and all of it has only served to make a mountain out of mole hill.

Hell, we've even got Jon1212 in here now making his usual "contribution" and confirming he still doesn't like me (which I take as a complement, considering the source). 

Clearly the consensus is that any claim should just be accepted no matter how wild.


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## KG441c (Feb 3, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> And all that may very well be the case, as he made very good gains with this saw. But why do you feel that is relevant, and where did I or anyone say anything negative about his abilities to build a saw? A 7900/7910 is not a 500P.
> 
> RPM in the cut is not as important as cut speed, but if I had made a claim that was clearly erroneous I'd want to be informed so I could correct it. If you actually read the comment I made, that is all that happened. There was no personal attack, no malice or insult or anything implied about his abilities. I just told him what the real numbers were. Initially I figured it was a typo so I checked. All the rest of this hysterics is just the typical nonsense that's been going on here for years, and all of it has only served to make a mountain out of mole hill.
> 
> ...


Man u have some kind of insecure issues goin on here? Something is bothering u personally? I read all of Carl's threads and respect him and his work and I was stating what I know to be true on his behalf. Please dont try and drag me in this wagon load of nonsense and crap as I was only here to read his thread. Why not just stop and let it rest or die? Do u have to be right ?


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## smokey7 (Feb 3, 2016)

Can we just agree that you disagree and move on to some technical information. I feel like the threads containing the lower end saws will attract more of the new people that may just be having trouble with these saws. A good thread containing a good builder with good information will go a long ways with getting new members and entertainment for the more seasoned members and builders too. Not everyone has or will ever own some of these high end big cc auto tune saws so I enjoy the builds on the more common cheap saws. Please continue this thread for us guys that are just motor heads and love reading about how to make em run like they should. 

I am not talking about any one person or pointing fingers just asking politely to have good dialogue continue with the technical info I crave.


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## jetmd (Feb 3, 2016)

Can I borrow that shovel for a couple of days? Please.......


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## smokey7 (Feb 3, 2016)

You talking bout me willis?


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## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 3, 2016)

jetmd said:


> Can I borrow that shovel for a couple of days? Please.......


Easy to see why isn't it Chet.


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## Chris-PA (Feb 3, 2016)

KG441c said:


> Man u have some kind of insecure issues goin on here? Something is bothering u personally? I read all of Carl's threads and respect him and his work and I was stating what I know to be true on his behalf. Please dont try and drag me in this wagon load of nonsense and crap as I was only here to read his thread. Why not just stop and let it rest or die? Do u have to be right ?


Say what? You jump in to defend Carl's honor (which no one has maligned) and then say not to drag you into it and proceed to take personal shots at me. I did not treat you that way. You dragged yourself into it and your own rudeness and disrespect are entirely your responsibility.


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## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

Do you guys even read what's posted, or do you just start throwing punches, enjoying the brawl? Much of what's being said here is irrelevant, untrue, and said simply to stir up trouble. Again jon1212, you continue to prove my point. You guys come over to AS, wine and cry and stir up crap, then run off and talk about all the crap on AS. It's ridiculous. You guys are the primary contributors to all this crap. Get over yourself already.


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## KG441c (Feb 3, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Say what? You jump in to defend Carl's honor (which no one has maligned) and then say not to drag you into it and proceed to take personal shots at me. I did not treat you that way. You dragged yourself into it and your own rudeness and disrespect are entirely your responsibility.


Sorry man. No problems from me


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## super3 (Feb 3, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> RPM in the cut is not as important as cut speed



Really? You won't get the later without the first.

You're an engineer?


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## Ronaldo (Feb 3, 2016)

I do read what is posted and this is what I have read: 
Post#92 Chris -PA stated that not much more than 9,500-10k in the cut could be attained due to carb size.
Post#93 Carl(MillerModSaws) states that these are maintaining 11,600-11,800 rpm in the cut.
Post#94 Chris tells us all that Carl is wrong and they are only running 9,500-10k. I think this is where the problems started for this thread, anyway.
Post#96 Chris states again that "it's obvious" these saws are not turning as fast as Carl's tachs read, so that seems like Chris is either calling Carl a liar or that he doesn' t know what he is doing.
Just my two cents, fellas.


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## bikemike (Feb 3, 2016)

The real question is how many tanks of fuel has been through the saws? Echo is known to be slow to break inn. 5 plus tanks then they will start to free up 10 plus tanks and ur in good


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## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 3, 2016)

Ronaldo said:


> I do read what is posted and this is what I have read:
> Post#92 Chris -PA stated that not much more than 9,500-10k in the cut could be attained due to carb size.
> Post#93 Carl(MillerModSaws) states that these are maintaining 11,600-11,800 rpm in the cut.
> Post#94 Chris tells us all that Carl is wrong and they are only running 9,500-10k. I think this is where the problems started for this thread, anyway.
> ...


Spot on Ron. And know you will be accused of being a shyt stirred.


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## Chris-PA (Feb 3, 2016)

super3 said:


> Really? You won't get the later without the first.


They are related but the cut time result it what matters most.

The rpm is going to be a balance between the power delivery curve of the engine vs. the load that it on it. High rpm might mean no load or lots of power. Low rpm might mean no power or high load. You can't look at the rpm alone and tell if it is cutting fast, but you can look at the cut time and tell. 



Ronaldo said:


> so that seems like Chris is either calling Carl a liar or that he doesn' t know what he is doing.


Because it is completely inconceivable that someone might have made an error, even if they are a good and capable porter and a fine upstanding guy? Or maybe it is just a lot more fun to make everything out to be a drama fest?



WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Spot on Ron. And know you will be accused of being a shyt stirred.


You found a shoe that fit?


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## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Can I try to play moderator here without the masses coming down on me? Put the emotions aside and you'll see this for what it is.
> 
> Chris did not say that this saw cannot or won't turn over 11K in the cut, he simple said it wasn't in that first video. A second video was posted demonstrating that it will. Play the two videos at the same time. Tell me what you hear. It's clear that the saw is turning way more RPMs in the second video.
> 
> ...



Please re-read this post. It's VERY simple to explain the misunderstanding here, if people would just put their emotions aside.* I totally understand why he was upset at first. *I likely would have been too. However, Chris was NOT calling him a liar. Re-read what he wrote if you need to. You're putting words in his mouth that he did not say and made effort to avoid.


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## Jon1212 (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Do you guys even read what's posted, or do you just start throwing punches, enjoying the brawl? Much of what's being said here is irrelevant, untrue, and said simply to stir up trouble. Again jon1212, you continue to prove my point. You guys come over to AS, wine and cry and stir up crap, then run off and talk about all the crap on AS. It's ridiculous. You guys are the primary contributors to all this crap. Get over yourself already.



Brad,

I made no mention of you in any way shape, or form. I actually thought a few of your posts were "spot on". I took exception to many of the comments made by the B of D (Chris PA), as he is continuing to do the same things that you seem to find so loathesome. Also, I don't see where you have any reason to say, "you guys come over to AS", when I'm here quite often reading technical, interesting, or often humorous threads?

Geez Brad, quit acting like you, and your ilk own the place, and get over it. I guess when you made your post about "can I play moderator for a minute" you forgot to relinquish your pretend crown.


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## Hedgerow (Feb 3, 2016)

bikemike said:


> The real question is how many tanks of fuel has been through the saws? Echo is known to be slow to break inn. 5 plus tanks then they will start to free up 10 plus tanks and ur in good


I've got a 500 that is approaching 50 tanks or so..
These saws don't "wake up" once broke in..
Very low rpm saws stock.
But super light and handy..


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## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 3, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> I've got a 500 that is approaching 50 tanks or so..
> These saws don't "wake up" once broke in..
> Very low rpm saws stock.
> But super light and handy..



Do you really have that many tanks. I mean really.


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## Marshy (Feb 3, 2016)

What are we doing here? Are we discussing, or arguing/fighting/attacking? This is starting to smell like the same old crap. Please state your opinions but dont belabor it.


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## Hedgerow (Feb 3, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Do you really have that many tanks. I mean really.


I used a low ball number..
For that very reason. 
Actual run time is quite a bit higher, since it's what I carry on the loader. 
It's the lightest saw I own. Fits about anywhere.


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## smokey7 (Feb 3, 2016)

I keep coming back hoping that mill mod saws cones back to finish this thread. Or hoping to see guys relax and let things go. I get a bit of banter or maybe even a friendly call out if someone has that type of dynamic with someone. I enjoy some of the joking around and can even get a laugh from the snakies. I do have a hard time feeling like I have to walk on egg shells because of the tension that is here. I don't know what has happened here between alot of members, I wish I knew. I understand that this is alot of our passions and when someone is passionate bout something you can get some flair ups. With that said can we please go bacteria to talking about saws and engines? I wonder what a newbie would think reading some of these threads trying to gain info about something and learn about how some of us act on here. I have nothing personally bad to say about anyone here I hold no grudges and am no one's fan boy. I am just a motor head that loves 2 strokes and getting optimum performance. 

So no harm done let's move on guys.


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## bikemike (Feb 3, 2016)

Yes I like a light saw. One of the reasons I run the crap out of my echo top handle.


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## cgraham1 (Feb 3, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Hell, we've even got Jon1212 in here now making his usual "contribution" and confirming he still doesn't like me (which I take as a complement, considering the source).


I think the problem people have with you, is that you come across (at least in many of your posts), as arrogant and condescending. That tends to rub people the wrong way. On top of that, the constant mocking of others simply because they do not run the same cheap saws as you...


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## cgraham1 (Feb 3, 2016)

I hope Carl and the other builders move on to 'Ovaries, Pussies, and Estrogen forum,' as Chris PA so cleverly called it, and leave this ******** behind.


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## MillerModSaws (Feb 3, 2016)

cgraham1 said:


> I hope Carl and the other builders move on to 'Ovaries, Pussies, and Estrogen forum,' as Chris PA so cleverly called it, and leave this ******** behind.


Hi clint! 
I've moved on but I can't help myself. I know this next video really sucks for quality. However 1 of my 2-11 year old sons loves this saw. Which made the build worth it. These saws are light nimble and make an 11 year old wear a big grin as they can handle them very easily!


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## smokey7 (Feb 3, 2016)

May I ask where everyone is moving on to?


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## bikemike (Feb 3, 2016)

smokey7 said:


> May I ask where everyone is moving on to?


You can ask but ppl can get banned by naming other sites. 

On the flip side it was nice seeing something about saws again.


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## Hedgerow (Feb 3, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Yes I like a light saw. One of the reasons I run the crap out of my echo top handle.


And these have an inboard clutch!
A plus in my book.
Sorry niko.


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## cgraham1 (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Do you guys even read what's posted, or do you just start throwing punches, enjoying the brawl? *Much of what's being said here is irrelevant, untrue, and said simply to stir up trouble.* Again jon1212, you continue to prove my point. You guys come over to AS, wine and cry and stir up crap, then run off and talk about all the crap on AS. It's ridiculous. You guys are the primary contributors to all this crap. Get over yourself already.


I believe Jonathan has a firm grasp of the English language, and I'm sure that he read all of the posts which were quoted, and fully understood the literal, and implied, meanings of those posts...

I'm willing to bet you'd probably drop a piano on your mom if it meant you could somehow blame it on Jonathan, Randy, Clint, the 'Riff Raff', or the 'ilk' who come over from the 'other forums' to 'stir up crap.' I recently read a post where somone said that (and I'm paraphrasing), 'It's just too bad 10 or 15 of those 'outsiders' just can't be 'done away with...' 

To quote the most troublesome troublemaker of all, "It's ridiculous," and, "get over yourself already."


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## tree monkey (Feb 3, 2016)

google is your friend


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## Chris-PA (Feb 3, 2016)

cgraham1 said:


> you come across ... as arrogant and condescending


When? Where? Quote it. Especially from this thread other than giving back to Hedgerow and others the same crap they threw. 



cgraham1 said:


> the constant mocking of others simply because they do not run the same cheap saws as you..


When? Where? Quote me doing that. 

Or maybe you're just being arrogant, condescending and mocking in presuming to be the spokesman for "people" and making accusations you cannot back up.


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## Marshy (Feb 3, 2016)

@Chris-PA, I think your being too insistant on things that are your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion and have the right to post it but you and others are arguing and its detracting from the intent of the thread. Please disengage from the current arguenent or you (and possibly others) will be removed from this thread.


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## Hedgerow (Feb 3, 2016)

Have I mentioned I like the little Echo?
Even if it is lacking in the power department?
It's so light, you can literally run it one handed.
Good on Carl for spending the hours it took to get at least "acceptable" power out of it.


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## cgraham1 (Feb 3, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> Hi clint!
> I've moved on but I can't help myself. I know this next video really sucks for quality. However 1 of my 2-11 year old sons loves this saw. Which made the build worth it. These saws are light nimble and make an 11 year old wear a big grin as they can handle them very easily!



Looks like it runs alright to me! Good job, Carl!


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## MillerModSaws (Feb 3, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Have I mentioned I like the little Echo?
> Even if it is lacking in the power department?
> It's so light, you can literally run it one handed.
> Good on Carl for spending the hours it took to get at least "acceptable" power out of it.


I would like to say I wanna see the one handed operation of a saw!
However! I've seen you playing with some saws in December, in missouri, in shorts, in flip flops! 
And yes Kenneth you wernt far behind him!!!


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## Hedgerow (Feb 3, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> I would like to say I wanna see the one handed operation of a saw!
> However! I've seen you playing with some saws in December, in missouri, in shorts, in flip flops!
> And yes Kenneth you wernt far behind him!!!


Picture yourself in a nasty hedge top.
Right hand is trimming, left hand is pulling and pitching brush and small sticks you don't want to lose when you shove the tops up into the burn pile.
I try to cut everything right down to 2" or so.
Waste not, want not!
Lol.


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## smokey7 (Feb 3, 2016)

Yea baby we back


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## cgraham1 (Feb 3, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> When? Where? Quote it. Especially from this thread other than giving back to Hedgerow and others the same crap they threw.
> 
> When? Where? Quote me doing that.
> 
> Or maybe you're just being arrogant, condescending and mocking in presuming to be the spokesman for "people" and making accusations you cannot back up.


You just made my point perfectly. I stated an opinion, and you implied that I'm a liar. I can see now why some would label you a 'bag of dicks.'

I'm going to spell it out in plain English for you. I think you're arrogant and condescending. I think you are unable to admit fault. That's how you come across, to me and others. That's an opinion that I have, that is shared by other people on this forum. Obviously you don't think so, but I have no reason to make comments that I don't believe to be true.

I could comb through your past posts and find some that prove my point, but I suspect that you would just refute my comprehension of those posts, as well.

It must be nice to be so smart, while those around you are so ****ing stupid.


----------



## cgraham1 (Feb 3, 2016)

Sorry Carl.


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## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

Marshy said:


> @Chris-PA, I think your being too insistant on things that are your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion and have the right to post it but you and others are arguing and its detracting from the intent of the thread. Please disengage from the current arguenent or you (and possibly others) will be removed from this thread.


You may be correct. However, please let me ask a couple questions. 

Where is all the bickering and fighting coming from. I suggest to you that it is not coming from Chris. Those that are stirring up the crap in this thread are doing nothing to help you or to support AS. They are trouble causing detractors, serving only to pull this site down. 

Why then is the focus put on Chris? Why not deal with the root of the problem? I know you guys have a tough, thankless job. But isn't enough enough. We're sick of this crap.


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## KG441c (Feb 3, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> Hi clint!
> I've moved on but I can't help myself. I know this next video really sucks for quality. However 1 of my 2-11 year old sons loves this saw. Which made the build worth it. These saws are light nimble and make an 11 year old wear a big grin as they can handle them very easily!



Awesome!!


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## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 3, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> I would like to say I wanna see the one handed operation of a saw!
> However! I've seen you playing with some saws in December, in missouri, in shorts, in flip flops!
> And yes Kenneth you wernt far behind him!!!



Not bad for Batman and Robin.


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## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> Hi clint!
> I've moved on but I can't help myself. I know this next video really sucks for quality. However 1 of my 2-11 year old sons loves this saw. Which made the build worth it. These saws are light nimble and make an 11 year old wear a big grin as they can handle them very easily!



That's fantastic! You took a weak and anemic little saw and made a great runner out of it. Nice job on that saw. It's just that much better that your son gets to enjoy it.


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## bikemike (Feb 3, 2016)

Like this?


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## Hedgerow (Feb 3, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Not bad for Batman and Robin.



Ok.. But I ain't wearin' no tights...

Swore off them years ago.


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## Jon1212 (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> You may be correct. However, please let me ask a couple questions.
> 
> Where is all the bickering and fighting coming from. I suggest to you that it is not coming from Chris. Those that are stirring up the crap in this thread are doing nothing to help you or to support AS. They are trouble causing detractors, serving only to pull this site down.
> 
> Why then is the focus put on Chris? Why not deal with the root of the problem? I know you guys have a tough, thankless job. But isn't enough enough. We're sick of this crap.



Holy smokes! You are either delusional, or blinded by your preconceived notions, or possibly both.

You brought my name up earlier, threw out your so typical "you guys" bullcrap, Chris implied that Carl was wrong, and misleading, even though he later did the patented Franklin Ohio back pedal, and he called Matt stupid. Hmm? I wonder where all of the trouble in this thread stemmed from?

Keep stirring the pot, Brad.


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## Deets066 (Feb 3, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> Hi clint!
> I've moved on but I can't help myself. I know this next video really sucks for quality. However 1 of my 2-11 year old sons loves this saw. Which made the build worth it. These saws are light nimble and make an 11 year old wear a big grin as they can handle them very easily!



Looks good Carl! Sounds to me like it's turning at least 11,276 rpms.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> But where's your engineering degree carl??
> 
> What about the cool looking, colorful snapshot of your computer screen?





Hedgerow said:


> The red is where you're crawfishin'.. Cause you said 9500-10,000 in your post.
> The blue is where you project fault of the inaccuracy of your findings and Carl's reaction to said findings back on to Carl for be annoyed at your obnoxious behavior...
> 
> So in other words...
> ...





Hedgerow said:


> Tell me that to my face ..
> 
> 
> I dare ya..
> ...





Hedgerow said:


> You are a true internet hero..
> I'm only a troll because I pointed out your post as obnoxious..
> And you didn't like it..
> Sorry buttercup..
> Just called it like I saw it..





jmssaws said:


> This place is a joke,I'll see you on the good forum carl.
> 
> It's impossible to learn if you already know everything and this place has far to many know it all's.
> 
> The biggest majority of the people on here have no idea what a strong saw is or how to build one. Think about it when you need some timing numbers for the hunk of **** your building and there's no one to help you.





WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Brad didn't realize you became a moderator.





Hedgerow said:


> You're digging your hole deeper buttercup..
> Put the shovel down.





Hedgerow said:


> I got yer back buttercup...





Jon1212 said:


> Good grief! You sure do like to accuse lots of folks of whining, and being a troll. Looks like you certainly do quite a bit of that which you find so reprehensible.
> 
> You are by far one of the biggest keyboard commando pussies I've witnessed on AS. All talk, talk, talk, talk. You should run one of your E.E. programs to find out why you are such a hypocritical tool bag.
> View attachment 483310





Jon1212 said:


> Nada mucho, Matt.
> 
> I really like the ignore feature over here on AS. It works very well, and I highly recommend its use for anyone looking to free themselves from that bag of dicks, known as Chris PA.





Jon1212 said:


> Brad,
> 
> I made no mention of you in any way shape, or form. I actually thought a few of your posts were "spot on". I took exception to many of the comments made by the B of D (Chris PA), as he is continuing to do the same things that you seem to find so loathesome. Also, I don't see where you have any reason to say, "you guys come over to AS", when I'm here quite often reading technical, interesting, or often humorous threads?
> 
> Geez Brad, quit acting like you, and your ilk own the place, and get over it. I guess when you made your post about "can I play moderator for a minute" you forgot to relinquish your pretend crown.





cgraham1 said:


> I hope Carl and the other builders move on to 'Ovaries, Pussies, and Estrogen forum,' as Chris PA so cleverly called it, and leave this ******** behind.





cgraham1 said:


> I believe Jonathan has a firm grasp of the English language, and I'm sure that he read all of the posts which were quoted, and fully understood the literal, and implied, meanings of those posts...
> 
> I'm willing to bet you'd probably drop a piano on your mom if it meant you could somehow blame it on Jonathan, Randy, Clint, the 'Riff Raff', or the 'ilk' who come over from the 'other forums' to 'stir up crap.' I recently read a post where somone said that (and I'm paraphrasing), 'It's just too bad 10 or 15 of those 'outsiders' just can't be 'done away with...'
> 
> To quote the most troublesome troublemaker of all, "It's ridiculous," and, "get over yourself already."





Jon1212 said:


> Holy smokes! You are either delusional, or blinded by your preconceived notions, or possibly both.
> 
> You brought my name up earlier, threw out your so typical "you guys" bullcrap, Chris implied that Carl was wrong, and misleading, even though he later did the patented Franklin Ohio back pedal, and he called Matt stupid. Hmm? I wonder where all of the trouble in this thread stemmed from?
> 
> Keep stirring the pot, Brad.


This is trolling and is what is wrong with this site. As long as this kind of destructive behaviour is allowed, *nothing* will change. Think I'm wrong? Just consider how Randy is moderating the new forum. He's constantly reminding you guys to *treat each other with respect*. Why the double standard? That's how it should be here as well. If that were practiced, we wouldn't have these problems, plain and simple.


----------



## Deets066 (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> This is trolling and is what is wrong with this site. As long as this kind of destructive behaviour is allowed, *nothing* will change. Think I'm wrong? Just consider how Randy is moderating the new forum. He's constantly reminding you guys to *treat each other with respect*. Why the double standard? That's how it should be here as well. If that were practiced, we wouldn't have these problems, plain and simple.


Treat others with respect? It has to go both ways. You can't blame one side of the argument.


----------



## Jon1212 (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> This is trolling and is what is wrong with this site. As long as this kind of destructive behaviour is allowed, *nothing* will change. Think I'm wrong? Just consider how Randy is moderating the new forum. He's constantly reminding you guys to *treat each other with respect*. Why the double standard? That's how it should be here as well. If that were practiced, we wouldn't have these problems, plain and simple.



Brad,

Why don't you "quote" the posts that garnered those responses? 

If you would like to talk about "double standards" we can go down that road, but I don't think you would like some of those skeletons coming out of that closet.

Respect is earned, and usually not by myopic, hypocritical, delusional regurgitators. 

Did you learn nothing from TonyK's post to you last week?

Just keep stirring, Brad.


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 3, 2016)

I just asked you a question if that's trolling that's your opinion. All I can say is I feel I'm keeping good company. Oh you never did answer my simple question.


----------



## Deets066 (Feb 3, 2016)

I'll tell ya what's wrong with this site


----------



## Deets066 (Feb 3, 2016)

It's not near as good as ***, HL Supply's site. And most of the people that made this place interesting are over there now


----------



## Deets066 (Feb 3, 2016)

Surprised it even let me post that! Lol


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Good grief, I certainly never thought, said or implied you were lying. Quite frankly it's pretty obvious just from listening that saw is not turning over 11,000rpm under load, and the fancy computer system is just an audio spectrum plot. It's a shame a simple technical discussion gets someone so upset.
> 
> You did a good job getting what you did out of that saw given the starting point, it's just that it isn't magic and there are still limitations to the design (primarily the carb), as you have recognized and was clear from the beginning. What did you expect from it?





Chris-PA said:


> Nothing I posted was intended to make you mad or be malicious - in fact it took me some effort to download your file, run it through the software, take a screenshot and post it. Getting a saw to run under load at over 11,000k isn't easy, and when you can hear that it isn't holding revs (as even you pointed out), it's reasonable to be skeptical.
> 
> It was difficult to get a good reading with the short bursts and not being able to see the cut. Judging by the chips starting at about 23s I figured that was when you were cutting. I looked at each of the 3 2sec cuts and they were all about the same at 11,600rpm:
> 
> ...





Chris-PA said:


> Gee, was this thread about you, or are you just on loan for whining and crying? What I wrote was perfectly clear, but apparently you're as dumb as you are are thin skinned - or maybe you understood it just fine but are intentionally twisting what I wrote?
> 
> Pi$$ off.





Chris-PA said:


> You and I will likely never meet, as I have a full and busy life and butt hurt internet trolls are not high on my priority list. But if we did and you behaved in person as poorly as you do behind your keyboard I'd tell you exactly what I thought of you to your face. You'd then be welcome to do something stupid.
> 
> Don't you have somewhere else to go whine and cry about your hurt feelings? I don't care about you or what you think in the least.





Chris-PA said:


> Oh no, don't hide the good timing numbers! Such drama! Is this what it's always like over at Ovaries, Pussies and Estrogen?
> 
> What's pathetic is that no one was rude, disrespectful, unpleasant, or unkind to Carl in this entire thread. Rather he was complemented on doing some interesting mods and making a capable saw out of something with conaiderable limitations. But when I refuted (simply and without any personal attack) his over exuberant claims of 11,800rpm under load in that video, well then did we have tears and stamping of feet. Then the muscle showed up to ridicule and intimidate and try to parse sentances looking for a gotcha (as if I cared), and I was the big meannie.
> 
> ...





Chris-PA said:


> What are you jabbering about? When did I ever say anything about you? I've never even heard of you.





Chris-PA said:


> Aww gee sweetheart, thanks for the friendly advice. Good to know you've got my best intrests in mind.
> 
> Go ahead and quote the part where I called anyone a liar. And when you cannot, let's see if you are man enough to appologize.





Chris-PA said:


> It's a WT in the largest size they made them - there's a lot of variations in shafts and main nozzle outlets but they're all kinda simiar. You could hog it out some like the one you did, but there are limits to that. I have never done that.
> 
> The RedMax G5000 was a 50cc saw that used a WT. The Chinese make a lot of clones of these, some up to 62cc. In conversations with Nenicu he found that the larger ones had a bigger carb. I have not seen what they did but perhaps that is an avenue to explore for a larger WT substitute.





Chris-PA said:


> And all that may very well be the case, as he made very good gains with this saw. But why do you feel that is relevant, and where did I or anyone say anything negative about his abilities to build a saw? A 7900/7910 is not a 500P.
> 
> RPM in the cut is not as important as cut speed, but if I had made a claim that was clearly erroneous I'd want to be informed so I could correct it. If you actually read the comment I made, that is all that happened. There was no personal attack, no malice or insult or anything implied about his abilities. I just told him what the real numbers were. Initially I figured it was a typo so I checked. All the rest of this hysterics is just the typical nonsense that's been going on here for years, and all of it has only served to make a mountain out of mole hill.
> 
> ...





Chris-PA said:


> Say what? You jump in to defend Carl's honor (which no one has maligned) and then say not to drag you into it and proceed to take personal shots at me. I did not treat you that way. You dragged yourself into it and your own rudeness and disrespect are entirely your responsibility.





Chris-PA said:


> They are related but the cut time result it what matters most.
> 
> The rpm is going to be a balance between the power delivery curve of the engine vs. the load that it on it. High rpm might mean no load or lots of power. Low rpm might mean no power or high load. You can't look at the rpm alone and tell if it is cutting fast, but you can look at the cut time and tell.
> 
> ...





Chris-PA said:


> When? Where? Quote it. Especially from this thread other than giving back to Hedgerow and others the same crap they threw.
> 
> When? Where? Quote me doing that.
> 
> Or maybe you're just being arrogant, condescending and mocking in presuming to be the spokesman for "people" and making accusations you cannot back up.



This is NOT trolling, and is NOT what's wrong with this forum. This is a man that presented some evidence and is trying to have an intelligent conversation. Instead he it's met by internet bullies that show total disregard for facts and intentions.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> I just asked you a question if that's trolling that's your opinion. All I can say is I feel I'm keeping good company. Oh you never did answer my simple question.


Your question wasn't really a question and didn't deserve a response, just like this doesn't. You're trolling, nothing else. You have nothing to contribute.


----------



## Deets066 (Feb 3, 2016)

Fart knockers is the best you guys could come up with?


----------



## farmer steve (Feb 3, 2016)

ALL of you guys crack me up. i cant' believe ANY of you can get this worked up over a friggin chainsaw. the OP started this thread out to be informative for those of us that would like to learn or at least watch a guy that knows a bunch about saws. for all the people saying the OP is wrong or whatever i'll be watching for your build thread to be posted soon. nice job on the build Carl even if it was an echo. just kidding.
IN BEFORE THE LOCK


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> This is NOT trolling, and is NOT what's wrong with this forum. This is a man that presented some evidence and is trying to have an intelligent conversation. Instead he it's met by internet bullies that show total disregard for facts and intentions.


Can't speak for intentions Brad..
Kenneth is not, nor ever will be, a troll or bully of any kind.
If you think that's the case, then you would be mistaken.

Would you like a pair of tights?


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Can't speak for intentions Brad..
> Kenneth is not, nor ever will be, a troll or bully of any kind.
> If you think that's the case, then you would be mistaken.
> 
> Would you like a pair of tights?


Who's Ken?


----------



## bikemike (Feb 3, 2016)

Deets066 said:


> Looks good Carl! Sounds to me like it's turning at least 11,276 rpms.


My computer said 11,278 lol


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 3, 2016)

Weekndlumberjack..
Nicest fella you'd ever meet.
Not a Troll.

Would not want to see him in tights though.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Weekndlumberjack..
> Nicest fella you'd ever meet.
> Not a Troll.
> 
> Would not want to see him in tights though.


That very well may be. I can only judge him by his posts. By the same token, I don't think a fraction of this crap would happen in person.


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 3, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Weekndlumberjack..
> Nicest fella you'd ever meet.
> Not a Troll.
> 
> Would not want to see him in tights though.



That's just mean.


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> That very well may be. I can only judge him by his posts. By the same token, I don't think a fraction of this crap would happen in person.


Agreed..
As you and I have met in person and has always been a good time.


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 3, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> That's just mean.


Everyone can picture Paul Bunyan in tights now...


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Agreed..
> As you and I have met in person and has always been a good time.


Yes we have!


----------



## fordf150 (Feb 3, 2016)

derail....anyone remember the 92cc dolly saws on ebay? Scott Papoosha....I just noticed he is a sponsor at the top of the page. Poosh's Saw Shop.


----------



## Deets066 (Feb 3, 2016)

bikemike said:


> My computer said 11,278 lol


Liar!


Lol


----------



## bikemike (Feb 3, 2016)

Deets066 said:


> Liar!
> 
> 
> Lol


I know phone ain't that smart wondering if there is a rpm app


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 3, 2016)

bikemike said:


> I know phone ain't that smart wondering if there is a rpm app


There is! Never got it to work though. Even paid for the damn thing.


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 3, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Everyone can picture Paul Bunyan in tights now...



Sexy.


----------



## bikemike (Feb 3, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> There is! Never got it to work though. Even paid for the damn thing.


Yeah I was looking at some and no consistent reviews


----------



## CR888 (Feb 3, 2016)

bikemike said:


> I know phone ain't that smart wondering if there is a rpm app


There is a number of rpm apps that listen to the engine in question and give an rpm reading. You need to fill out a form asking how many cylinders, is it four stroke or two stroke, and the displacement from memory. I tried these apps before buying some little tachs and have had the same experience as Chris where you dont feel confident in their accuracy. Give one a go as they may have improved them however my advice is they are nowhere near as good as a quality tach and I would certainly not tune anything relying on one of these apps. It did work though, just not all that well.


----------



## Toad22t (Feb 3, 2016)

CR888 said:


> There is a number of rpm apps that listen to the engine in question and give an rpm reading. You need to fill out a form asking how many cylinders, is it four stroke or two stroke, and the displacement from memory. I tried these apps before buying some little tachs and have had the same experience as Chris where you dont feel confident in their accuracy. Give one a go as they may have improved them however my advice is they are nowhere near as good as a quality tach and I would certainly not tune anything relying on one of these apps. It did work though, just not all that well.



I have a feeling there would be to many variables to consider. A muffler mod will change the pitch of the exhaust. Well I guess I am assuming it goes by sound unlike spark wire pulse's.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

Sound is nothing more than vibrations, which can be measured, exactly what Chris has done. A muffler mod will change tone but not pitch.


----------



## Toad22t (Feb 3, 2016)

But how would a phone measure that? I guess I should read up on some apps.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Just consider how Randy is moderating the new forum. He's constantly reminding you guys to *treat each other with respect.*



Did you sneak in with a different username? 

Respect is earned. You can't buy it, but you can trade it away.....

This whole place is built on a total lack of respect. The fact that I can't send a PM here.....that other sites names are censored....etc. All that shows a complete lack of respect for others. 

You will reap what you sow. 

Enjoy.


----------



## bikemike (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Sound is nothing more than vibrations, which can be measured, exactly what Chris has done. A muffler mod will change tone but not pitch.


I wouldn't go by sound. Reflections can amplify if not in a sound proof room


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 3, 2016)

Toad22t said:


> I have a feeling there would be to many variables to consider. A muffler mod will change the pitch of the exhaust. Well I guess I am assuming it goes by sound unlike spark wire pulse's.


Unless you use some sort of pitch correction processing (like they use nowadays to make talentless drones seem like they can sing), it is hard to change the frequency of a signal (acoustic or electrical) in natural systems. You can selectively filter the frequencies out or amplify them, but you can't easily change them. 



blsnelling said:


> Sound is nothing more than vibrations, which can be measured, exactly what Chris has done. A muffler mod will change tone but not pitch.


Humans are very good at image recognition, so it is not too difficult to look at a plot and see the lowest large spike and the harmonics (integer multiples) above them, and to separate that pattern from the noise blob below. But it's tough to do that in software, especially when you can't anticipate the type of thing you are looking for or the shape of the noise floor. That's what those setup parameters are for - to try to narrow it down.


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> That very well may be. * I can only judge him* by his posts. By the same token, I don't think a fraction of this crap would happen in person.



And there is what I perceive as most of the problem, judge not lest ye be judged. You are in no position to judge anyone


----------



## bikemike (Feb 3, 2016)

Is a 034 carb next on the roster for that saw?


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

Mastermind said:


> Did you sneak in with a different username?


Nope.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 3, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Nope.



Tell the truth......

You miss me don't you?


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 3, 2016)

Mastermind said:


> Tell the truth......
> 
> You miss me don't you?


You know that I wish things could be right with all of us.


----------



## Paragon Builder (Feb 3, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> derail....anyone remember the 92cc dolly saws on ebay? Scott Papoosha....I just noticed he is a sponsor at the top of the page. Poosh's Saw Shop.


Nate did anyone ever figure out if he really made them 92cc or not?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fordf150 (Feb 3, 2016)

Paragon Builder said:


> Nate did anyone ever figure out if he really made them 92cc or not?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He has only ever answered one of us on bore/stroke and his answer was stock stroke and 54mm bore which is the big bore kit so by his numbers they are only 84cc.

I've cornered him on a couple different Facebook groups and he won't answer a single question.... Even in his sale posts he avoids and eventually just quits posting in his own sale post. The last time I caught up with him I asked how he came up with 7.2hp.... What kind of dyno did he put it on to come with that number... Again he just quit posting in his own sale post.


----------



## Paragon Builder (Feb 4, 2016)

I should really go see him, try out one of his saws, act like I want to buy it..,I see his ads on Craigslist all the time. He's about 45 min from me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Deererainman (Feb 4, 2016)

Sorry about your thread Carl. 

I find it very unusual that this same thread is in no less than two other sites and the input has been constructive / very informative. I'll follow your thread on one of the other sites.

I appreciate your sharing the build @MillerModSaws . See you over on the other sites.


----------



## Idahonative (Feb 4, 2016)

Mastermind said:


> Did you sneak in with a different username?
> 
> Respect is earned. You can't buy it, but you can trade it away.....
> 
> ...



90% of the guys on this forum know what Brad's made of. The other 10% are Socialist trolls from "other sites".


----------



## Toad22t (Feb 4, 2016)

Idahonative said:


> 90% of the guys on this forum know what Brad's made of. The other 10% are Socialist trolls from "other sites".



I like trolls! It reminds me of a little story I heard.......


----------



## CR888 (Feb 5, 2016)

A good forum site requires everyone to contribute in a positive way. We can all work on treating each other better. Disagreeing with someone can be done respectfully if we choose to do so.


----------



## GCJenks204 (Feb 5, 2016)

dbittle said:


> I told myself I wouldn't do it, but apparently I lied. Ok, a video is made using a cell phone (not equipment designed to preserve acoustic bandwidth content) with an unknown but not really high sample rate. Then it is compressed into a size that can be posted online. Then it is played back into a spectrum analyzer and the result actually believed. No. Simply no. You can get numbers that way, but you cannot get data. I don't think Chris was looking at data.



This site needs a "Best Answer" button like that other awesome site does.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

dbittle said:


> Ok, a video is made using a cell phone (*not equipment designed to preserve acoustic bandwidth content*) with an unknown but not really high sample rate.


The frequency range that is relevant here is about 130Hz to 230Hz, corresponding to 8000rpm to 14,000rpm. Audio spectrum is traditionally 20Hz to 20,000Hz. So the bandwidth is about 100Hz, and well within the range of a modern cell phone or video camera. 

Further, the sample rate is adequate to record audio in the upper range of human hearing - let's assume the phone is kinda crappy and only records sounds up to maybe 12,000Hz. The Nyquist rate for that (at least 2x the highest frequency) would be 24,000Hz. Therefore at 230Hz we have about 104samples per cycle, which is overkill.



dbittle said:


> *Then it is compressed into a size that can be posted online.* Then it is played back into a spectrum analyzer and the result actually believed. No. Simply no.


This is the audio track from a video. The amount of data in the audio is extremely small when compared to the video portion, so the compression effects are primarily in the video portion. Further, audio and video compression algorithms are an entire field of study in signal processing, and they do not function by changing frequencies within the signal. I happen to know people who have spent a lifetime doing that work, including people who were part of developing the MP3 algorithms. Any audio compression algorithm that could not preserve the data from a tiny 100Hz wide band in an audio bandwidth almost 20kHz wide would be completely unusable. 



dbittle said:


> You can get numbers that way, but you cannot get data. I don't think Chris was looking at data.



By saying it's not data, you imply it is noise. If you look at the plot I posted below, you can clearly see the fundamental frequency and its harmonic multiples. The fundamental is well correlated and some 50dB above the noise floor. Each dB increase represents a doubling of the amplitude. This was actually a damn good quality recording. 




In summary, your comment is totally and completely without merit.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

GCJenks204 said:


> This site needs a "Best Answer" button like that other awesome site does.


In order to be a "Best Answer", wouldn't you want it to have some basis in reality? Or doesn't that matter as long as someone throws out some technical sounding crap?


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

By the way - I took a look at the audio spectrum from the latest video with the opened up carb, and could easily provide feedback that might be useful to the builder. 

Screw it.


----------



## jmssaws (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> By the way - I took a look at the audio spectrum from the latest video with the opened up carb, and could easily provide feedback that might be useful to the builder.
> 
> Screw it.


Is that trolling?


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

jmssaws said:


> Is that trolling?


Trolling from you and others is the reason for it.


----------



## bikemike (Feb 5, 2016)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Im gonna tell my internet friends that ive never met in person you said that and were gonna harass you.
> 
> Scared ?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Feb 5, 2016)

jmssaws said:


> Is that trolling?




No...this is.


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> The frequency range that is relevant here is about 130Hz to 230Hz, corresponding to 8000rpm to 14,000rpm. Audio spectrum is traditionally 20Hz to 20,000Hz. So the bandwidth is about 100Hz, and well within the range of a modern cell phone or video camera.
> 
> Further, the sample rate is adequate to record audio in the upper range of human hearing - let's assume the phone is kinda crappy and only records sounds up to maybe 12,000Hz. The Nyquist rate for that (at least 2x the highest frequency) would be 24,000Hz. Therefore at 230Hz we have about 104samples per cycle, which is overkill.
> 
> ...




In reality I think you and your program should have a +- 50% accuracy rate.


----------



## jmssaws (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Trolling from you and others is the reason for it.


Once again someone else is at fault.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Feb 5, 2016)

Can we start a trolling thread ?

One that goes like " guess who im making fun of with this post " .. ive saved some good ones for that thread..good videos too


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> In reality I think you and your program should have a +- 50% accuracy rate.


References?


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> References?



Eng degree from LA Tech, 30 years in the electrical business, and well respected in my industry. Remind me where your degree is from?


----------



## cus_deluxe (Feb 5, 2016)

Idahonative said:


> *Socialist* trolls from "other sites".


what the f does that have to do with anything?


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Feb 5, 2016)

cus_deluxe said:


> what the f does that have to do with anything?



Be mindful of how strange some people really are..

It takes all types you know..


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

cus_deluxe said:


> what the f does that have to do with anything?


Not much..
But I hear the price of oranges is skyrocketing in Alaska..


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> Eng degree from LA Tech, 30 years in the electrical business, and well respected in my industry. Remind me where your degree is from?


Electricity and scotch...

2 subjects to which I will always yield the floor..


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> Eng degree from LA Tech, 30 years in the electrical business, and well respected in my industry. Remind me where your degree is from?


I could care less about your background or if you have a degree. What are the references for your +/- 50% accuracy claim? Calculations?


----------



## cus_deluxe (Feb 5, 2016)

i (thankfully) sorta missed all the stuff that went down in this thread. I just dont understand the need, when theres already been a mess made of a thread, to bring politics in. it makes no sense.


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

cus_deluxe said:


> i (thankfully) sorta missed all the stuff that went down in this thread. I just dont understand the need, when theres already been a mess made of a thread, to bring politics in. it makes no sense.


I think it's shaping up to be an interesting evening of reading.
Thread has been over for a couple pages or so. 
Saw turned out well.. Lol..


----------



## cus_deluxe (Feb 5, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> I think it's shaping up to be an interesting evening of reading.
> Thread has been over for a couple pages or so.
> Saw turned out well.. Lol..


near as i can tell it could been locked on page 7 or 8. does look like it would be a fun little saw to have.


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

cus_deluxe said:


> near as i can tell it could been locked on page 7 or 8. does look like it would be a fun little saw to have.


It is a light little bugger.
And air filter don't need blown out but every 10 tanks or so.


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Electricity and scotch...
> 
> 2 subjects to which I will always yield the floor..



And both of those have messed my world up a couple of times..


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> By the way - I took a look at the audio spectrum from the latest video with the opened up carb, and could easily provide feedback that might be useful to the builder.
> 
> Screw it.


You mean this video!


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> I could care less about your background or if you have a degree. What are the references for your +/- 50% accuracy claim? Calculations?



Wait a second, you asked a question and I answered it. Now I asked a DIRECT question and I would like you to answer it. Again, remind me where your degree is from and what it is in?


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> Wait a second, you asked a question and I answered it. Now I asked a DIRECT question and I would like you to answer it. Again, remind me where your degree is from and what it is in?


Lol, so you can't support what wrote at all then. Thanks for playing poser.


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Lol, so you can't support what wrote at all then. Thanks for playing poser.



Not a poser, I asked a question and you are refusing to answer. Now tell me who is the poser?


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Lol, so you can't support what wrote at all then. Thanks for playing poser.


Remember what I told you about putting down that shovel??


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Remember what I told you about putting down that shovel??


Or what? Remember what I told you about not caring? The behavior displayed by you and so many others these last few days is so pathetic it simply makes you irrelevant to me.


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> You mean this video!



You ready to race that thing now?


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> Not a poser, I asked a question and you are refusing to answer. Now tell me who is the poser?


You made a specific claim about the accuracy of the rpm reading I provided. I asked you to back it up and you are unable. The rest of this is just more of the floundering of a BSer who's been called out.


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Or what? Remember what I told you about not caring? The behavior displayed by you and so many others these last few days is so pathetic it simply makes you irrelevant to me.


Oh pipe down Buttercup..
Enjoy the video Carl posted..
That thing runs way better than mine.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> You mean this video!



Yup It does run nicely.


----------



## Dave6390 (Feb 5, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> You ready to race that thing now?


Is this the muffler mod? Or the other one? Thanx!


Dave6390 in WI


----------



## bikemike (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> I could care less about your background or if you have a degree. What are the references for your +/- 50% accuracy claim? Calculations?


I almost have 97 degrees. And a high school diploma lol


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> You made a specific claim about the accuracy of the rpm reading I provided. I asked you to back it up and you are unable. The rest of this is just more of the floundering of a BSer who's been called out.



You are 100% correct, I am calling you out and trying to establish your qualifications for analyzing a video with a software program you down loaded. Yes, I am calling you out.

Please tell us where your degree is from, what is it in, and how you are qualified to substantiate and prove the theory behind your program. I am just dying to know. *Please answer the question.*


----------



## bikemike (Feb 5, 2016)

Yeah its cold out here


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Yeah its cold out here


They don't call it the great white nort fer nuthin..
But at least theres ice fishing.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> You are 100% correct, I am calling you out and trying to establish your qualifications for analyzing a video with a software program you down loaded. Yes, I am calling you out.
> 
> Please tell us where your degree is from, what is it in, and how you are qualified to substantiate and prove the theory behind your program. I am just dying to know. *Please answer the question.*


Just so know, I'm laughing at you, not with you.


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Just so know, I'm laughing at you, not with you.



I assure you I have been laughed at but much better people, wouldn't take much to be better than you have been. Anyhow I am trying to establish how much of a creditable source you are and you repeatedly refuse to establish any credentials at all. Without any credentials your argument is invalid plain and simple.

I do apologize for the derail but it really upsets me for someone to pose as something they are not.


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 5, 2016)

Does any body know what a variable frequency drive is. Besides me.


----------



## jmssaws (Feb 5, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Does any body know what a variable frequency drive is. Besides me.


I think it's a clutch


----------



## awol (Feb 5, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Does any body know what a variable frequency drive is. Besides me.


 They sure are handy for running three phase motors on single phase power, and giving them variable speed also!


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Does any body know what a variable frequency drive is. Besides me.



Uh, maybe.......


----------



## cus_deluxe (Feb 5, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Does any body know what a variable frequency drive is. Besides me.


Im into turf management on golf courses. Its a pretty common item in most modern pumping situations.


----------



## jmssaws (Feb 5, 2016)

I port saws and cut timber so are you sure it's not a clutch?


----------



## cus_deluxe (Feb 5, 2016)

Well...no......"I have a potty mouth"


----------



## jmssaws (Feb 5, 2016)

O I didn't graduate high school either but this is a chainsaw forum and I know chainsaws.


----------



## cus_deluxe (Feb 5, 2016)

cus_deluxe said:


> Well...no......"I have a potty mouth"



Hahahaha now that is funny!


----------



## cus_deluxe (Feb 5, 2016)

Why the use of a certain 3 letter acronym would cause AS to call me names is beyond me


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Does any body know what a variable frequency drive is. Besides me.


 Believe it or not, I do. But whatever you do, please don't ask me to fix it.


----------



## sunfish (Feb 5, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Does any body know what a variable frequency drive is. Besides me.





awol said:


> They sure are handy for running three phase motors on single phase power, and giving them variable speed also!





Hedgerow said:


> Believe it or not, I do. But whatever you do, please don't ask me to fix it.


I have two of em in my shop & will likely get a couple more at some point.


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

sunfish said:


> I have two of em in my shop & will likely get a couple more at some point.



If you need any help holler at me.


----------



## sunfish (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> If you need any help holler at me.


Cool. Thanks man!


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 5, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Believe it or not, I do. But whatever you do, please don't ask me to fix it.


Ask barnyrb. I can work on them bit don't understand every thing I think I know.


----------



## bikemike (Feb 5, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Does any body know what a variable frequency drive is. Besides me.


Yes a ac motor speed control. Or is it a really hilly road?


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Ask barnyrb. I can work on them bit don't understand every thing I think I know.


Nothing to it, take AC power, turn it into DC, pull it off the DC bus, chop it up by manipulating sine waves, send it to the motor and call it a day. Easypeasy....


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> You mean this video!



Sounds great.


----------



## bikemike (Feb 5, 2016)

Of it wernt Fer those doors hickeys rc cars n planes would be slower than the nitro stuff. Now the new brushless is kickin azz


----------



## bikemike (Feb 5, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Of it wernt Fer those doors hickeys rc cars n planes would be slower than the nitro stuff. Now the new brushless is kickin azz


Sorry auto correct is like auto tune. Don't always work good


----------



## cus_deluxe (Feb 5, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Of it wernt Fer those doors hickeys rc cars n planes would be slower than the nitro stuff. Now the new brushless is kickin azz


For real, brushless motors and Lipo batteries are ridiculous compared to what we had when i was into rc.


----------



## farmer steve (Feb 5, 2016)

cus_deluxe said:


> For real, brushless motors and Lipo batteries are ridiculous compared to what we had when i was into rc.


true,but can they be ported and muff modded?


----------



## bikemike (Feb 5, 2016)

cus_deluxe said:


> For real, brushless motors and Lipo batteries are ridiculous compared to what we had when i was into rc.


Yeah my brother still races short course trucks and when he puts a 11.1v in the truck it will pull the front tires up 60mph


----------



## bikemike (Feb 5, 2016)

farmer steve said:


> true,but can they be ported and muff modded?


But they can be timed and run easy over 100 rpm


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Sounds great.


I thought it did too..
Those things really are sloooowwwwww spooling saws from the factory..


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> Nothing to it, take AC power, turn it into DC, pull it off the DC bus, chop it up by manipulating sine waves, send it to the motor and call it a day. Easypeasy....


And that, mrBarnes, is why they pay you the big bucks..


----------



## jetmd (Feb 5, 2016)

I asked nicely and still can not borrow the shovel ? Who did I piss off ?


----------



## Deets066 (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> You made a specific claim about the accuracy of the rpm reading I provided. I asked you to back it up and you are unable. The rest of this is just more of the floundering of a BSer who's been called out.


I'll back it up! Carl said its turning a certain RPM which came from a tach attached to the saw. I'll take that any day over your bullsh!t software


----------



## Ray Bell (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> Nothing to it, take AC power, turn it into DC, pull it off the DC bus, chop it up by manipulating sine waves, send it to the motor and call it a day. Easypeasy....


Riiiight.... Easy for you to say. I envy your knowledge, and appreciate your modesty!


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

Deets066 said:


> I'll back it up! Carl said its turning a certain RPM which came from a tach attached to the saw. I'll take that any day over your bullsh!t software


Well, that clears that up! I think we did that about 12 pages ago. 

Now go watch the video again. Where is Carl looking? He's looking at the damn saw in the wood, just like he should be. Where is that tach? Is it taped to the saw? How often does he look at the tach? How accurate does the manufacturer claim the tach is, and is that with a varying rpm or a constant one?

The technique I used (and described last July) is not something I invented, rather it is something so routine and common it is boring, used in all manner of science and engineering on a daily basis. It's a tool, one you can chose to use or ignore, I could care less. The advantages are that you can look at the rpm over time, for varying lengths of time and at varying portions of the cut as you chose. Which allows you to keep your eyes on the cut where they're supposed to be.


----------



## Deets066 (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Well, that clears that up! I think we did that about 12 pages ago.
> 
> Now go watch the video again. Where is Carl looking? He's looking at the damn saw in the wood, just like he should be. Where is that tach? Is it taped to the saw? How often does he look at the tach? How accurate does the manufacturer claim the tach is, and is that with a varying rpm or a constant one?
> 
> The technique I used (and described last July) is not something I invented, rather it is something so routine and common it is boring, used in all manner of science and engineering on a daily basis. It's a tool, one you can chose to use or ignore, I could care less. The advantages are that you can look at the rpm over time, for varying lengths of time and at varying portions of the cut as you chose. Which allows you to keep your eyes on the cut where they're supposed to be.


Glad I could clear that up for ya


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 5, 2016)

WKEND LUMBERJAK said:


> Does any body know what a variable frequency drive is. Besides me.


I do. Use them at work all the time. In fact my favorite lathe has a freq drive. So nice not having to change gears.


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 5, 2016)

jetmd said:


> I asked nicely and still can not borrow the shovel ? Who did I piss off ?



Chris from pa is still using it.


----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 5, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> You ready to race that thing now?


Im not sure it's worthy of that. And i think you know my chain sharpening skills!


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 5, 2016)

What are you using Carl.


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Well, that clears that up! I think we did that about 12 pages ago.
> 
> Now go watch the video again. Where is Carl looking? He's looking at the damn saw in the wood, just like he should be. Where is that tach? Is it taped to the saw? How often does he look at the tach? How accurate does the manufacturer claim the tach is, and is that with a varying rpm or a constant one?
> 
> The technique I used (and described last July) is not something I invented, rather it is something so routine and common it is boring, used in all manner of science and engineering on a daily basis. It's a tool, one you can chose to use or ignore, I could care less. The advantages are that you can look at the rpm over time, for varying lengths of time and at varying portions of the cut as you chose. Which allows you to keep your eyes on the cut where they're supposed to be.



You just won't stop defending something that you can't substantiate. The accuracy on a tach is typically +-2% and I can assure you your software is not even close.

For the 5th time, What is your degree in and where is it from?


----------



## Deets066 (Feb 5, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> I do. Use them at work all the time. In fact my favorite lathe has a freq drive. So nice not having to change gears.


Inverter drive ?


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> The accuracy on a tach is typically +-2% and *I can assure you your software is not even close*.


Oh, good! Because I've been asking for you to do just that since you claimed it was +/-50%. So will you be doing that soon, or are you still throwing crap on the wall?


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Oh, good! Because I've been asking for you to do just that since you claimed it was +/-50%. So will you be doing that soon, or are you still throwing crap on the wall?



Who's software is it? There should be published data on it.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> Who's software is it? There should be published data on it.


http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/measuring-rpm-from-video.281228/


----------



## bikemike (Feb 5, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> Im not sure it's worthy of that. And i think you know my chain sharpening skills!


 A round file shoved into a air chisel works great lol


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/measuring-rpm-from-video.281228/



Again, I don't want to wade through your BS, who's software is it and what is your degree in and where from? Direct questions deserve direct answers.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2016)

Is this what you're using, Chris? http://www.ymec.com/products/dssf3e/index.htm


----------



## WKEND LUMBERJAK (Feb 5, 2016)

Good luck with that Randy


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Is this what you're using, Chris? http://www.ymec.com/products/dssf3e/index.htm


No, it is a generic audio processing program called Audacity.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> No, it is a generic audio processing program called Audacity.


I thought this looked similar to your screenshots.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> I thought this looked similar to your screenshots.


I looked but did not see any spectrum plots at the link, but any spectrum plot will look about the same - this is generic stuff. 

And of course once the guy who makes claims he obviously had zero basis to make gets done looking at the "special software", I'll just find some other piece of software that does the same thing, run the same file through it and get the same answers. Because there's nothing to be seen following that thread. There are errors in any measurement, but that's not going to be where they are. 

By the way, most of these tachs update at a rate of 0.5sec. At 10,000rpm they only get to see about 83 revolutions. The plot I published used about 4s, or 8X the amount of data.


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> No, it is a generic audio processing program called Audacity.



So you are using a "free" software program that is using data supplied by a device that is not optimized as a recording device and this is transmitted over the web and you claim it is more accurate than a high speed device counting electrical impulses.....lulz.......


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> So you are using a "free" software program that is using data supplied by a device that is not optimized as a recording device and this is transmitted over the web and you claim it is more accurate than a high speed device counting electrical impulses.....lulz.......


That's what I'm using, as outlined in detail last year. However, I never made any claims of relative accuracy because that's not a pissing contest I'm dumb enough to get into (although you're welcome to knock yourself out). 

However, I will caution you that if you're going to go after the accuracy of the reading I got, then you will have to explain how my reading matched his on the second video of it doing 2-3sec cuts on some little branch. And while you're at it, maybe you can explain how it runs the same rpm doing 2-3sec cuts on a little branch as it does cutting a chunk of hedge?

Here's the plot of the 2nd (now deleted) video. I got 11,580rpm. The tach was bouncing around so much it was almost unreadable but mostly read between 10,000 and 12,000 rpm: 




You wanna borrow a shovel?


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 5, 2016)

Well, I've had enough fun for the evening. I'm sure you'll have something else easily refuted by tomorrow.


----------



## barneyrb (Feb 5, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> Good thing these are running more. As you see it going threw that hedge there maintaining 11600-11800 pretty good. Dog it in and pull it threw you'll pull them down to the 11200 range.





Chris-PA said:


> I'm afraid it's only running 9,500 to 10,000rpm in that video. Below is a sample from the first cut, but they're all pretty similar.
> 
> I was not implying that you didn't do a good job with it at all. It's just that when you start with a 50cc saw that has porting as compromised as this one (in order to avoid paying for the rights to use strato) along with a WT of limited size, it takes a lot of mods to make it work well. I know some want to believe Echo has some magic formula and really smart engineers that allows them to do so much better than those saws that need strato to meet emissions, but the reality shows otherwise. With a lot of work you've made this a decent saw.
> 
> View attachment 482921





Chris-PA said:


> That's what I'm using, as outlined in detail last year. However,* I never made any claims of relative accuracy *because that's not a pissing contest I'm dumb enough to get into (although you're welcome to knock yourself out).
> 
> However, I will caution you that if you're going to go after the accuracy of the reading I got, then you will have to explain how my reading matched his on the second video of it doing 2-3sec cuts on some little branch. And while you're at it, maybe you can explain how it runs the same rpm doing 2-3sec cuts on a little branch as it does cutting a chunk of hedge?
> 
> ...



Naw, you've got a good grip on that shovel right now.

Please notice above where you claimed that your reading of 9500-10000 was more accurate than a tach reading of 11,600-11,800. By your own admission you claim that in the second recording you were right on to what the tach was reading. Very different reading in one video and similar in the second. By my deduction you are admitting that your system is not nearly as accurate as a tach.

Now for the 6th time, what are your credentials? As previously stated there are some who are tired of hearing your mouth and now is the time to back it up.


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

MillerModSaws said:


> Im not sure it's worthy of that. And i think you know my chain sharpening skills!


I do know your grinder settings..
That's why I'm so impressed with the saws rpm's!!
Lol...
Mine is just a sloth in comparison.


----------



## Hedgerow (Feb 5, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Well, I've had enough fun for the evening. I'm sure you'll have something else easily refuted by tomorrow.


Do you just make **** up as you go???
Seriously..
I don't care what your latest app is..
Neither does anyone else..
The saw runs an ass load more rpm's than it did stock..
Be it 10,500 or 11,480...
Mine may run 9k in the cut with a dull chain..
They're that slow!


----------



## bikemike (Feb 5, 2016)

Ok final solution to what chain for what saws sharpened his or his way.


Oregon powersharp to run all test. They sharpen and set rakers equally


----------



## Deererainman (Feb 5, 2016)




----------



## Marshy (Feb 5, 2016)

I like trains.


----------



## Marshy (Feb 5, 2016)

Deererainman said:


> View attachment 484033


Damn, you beat me to it by 1 second! Nice pic, I like it.


----------



## Deererainman (Feb 5, 2016)

In before the lock?


----------



## Flip D (Feb 5, 2016)

I have no skin in the game but...



Chris-PA said:


> I could care less about your background or if you have a degree. What are the references for your +/- 50% accuracy claim? Calculations?



Chris PA, you lost a lot of cred in this thread. That fact that you dismiss someone's extensive experience and knowledge shows that your locked into your data and gives me serious doubt about the accuracy of your numbers. I would have asked, "hey old guy, do you know something that could improve my generic internet program?" Maybe you need to download a few more generic programs and prove your numbers. I'd also like to know if the numbers change when you run the video again and what is the variance. 

I can only assume that the +/- 50% was bait and you took it hook, line, and sinker because your not old enough to know better yet. 

I think it's best you only post in the "My chainsaw won't start" threads because after this thread, someone would have to be a total newb to trust you technical knowledge.


----------



## Deererainman (Feb 5, 2016)

Flip D said:


> I have no skin in the game but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




REPPED


----------



## Andyshine77 (Feb 6, 2016)




----------



## MillerModSaws (Feb 6, 2016)

Matt I need a 6400!


Hedgerow said:


> I do know your grinder settings..
> That's why I'm so impressed with the saws rpm's!!
> Lol...
> Mine is just a sloth in comparison.


50/30/10 crappy Carlton chain and that chain gas cut 2 truck loads of wood.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 6, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Do you just make **** up as you go???
> Seriously..
> I don't care what your latest app is..
> Neither does anyone else..
> ...


Someone cared enough to keep asking what the program was to try to find a way to show the technique doesn't work, or we would not have been discussing it. 

I never cared what the rpm was, as I said it's not the most important measure of performance. The stock saw worked as the timing and carb indicated it would. Carl got a lot more out of it. I gave him the real numbers because I thought it would be useful. He lost his cool, but still no big deal and I did not respond to him in kind. 

The rest of this mess has nothing to do with Carl or the saw, rather the endless parade of d-bags here to intimidate, accuse, ridicule and to try to show that the info I gave Carl is wrong, all of which has failed. And you were the first of those to show up. 

It is a shame what happened to Carl's thread, but it's hardly the first one I've seen ruined by the same crowd using the same tactics. The difference here is that you have nothing I want and there is nothing you can do.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 6, 2016)

Flip D said:


> you lost a lot of cred in this thread.


I've lost nothing that concerns me in the least.



Flip D said:


> I can only assume that the +/- 50% was bait and you took it hook, line, and sinker because your not old enough to know better yet.


You seem to be unaware of who is being trolled Scooter.



Flip D said:


> I think it's best you only post in the "My chainsaw won't start" threads because after this thread, someone would have to be a total newb to trust you technical knowledge.


Well, It's certainly important to me to know what you think is best.  Welcome to the thread, it needed another one.


----------



## bikemike (Feb 6, 2016)




----------



## Flip D (Feb 6, 2016)

Christ PA,

I'm not trying to break you down but, if your going to post scientific data, you need to be a lot more scientific. What your posting is just a small slice of what needs to be posted. I'd be interested in your findings in this but all you've shown so far is the equivalent of throwing a dart at a wall of info.


----------



## mcginkleschmidt (Feb 6, 2016)




----------



## blsnelling (Feb 6, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Can I try to play moderator here without the masses coming down on me? Put the emotions aside and you'll see this for what it is.
> 
> Chris did not say that this saw cannot or won't turn over 11K in the cut, he simple said it wasn't in that first video. A second video was posted demonstrating that it will. *Play* *the two videos at the same time. Tell me what you hear.* It's clear that the saw is turning way more RPMs in the second video.
> 
> ...



Did anyone ever do this? I got no replies.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 6, 2016)

Flip D said:


> Christ PA,
> 
> I'm not trying to break you down but, if your going to post scientific data, you need to be a lot more scientific. What your posting is just a small slice of what needs to be posted. I'd be interested in your findings in this but all you've shown so far is the equivalent of throwing a dart at a wall of info.


Nice try. I don't *need* to do squat, certainly not to satisfy you. I posted the info I did, make of it what you will - it's worth every cent you paid for it. I march to my own drum.

This is a chainsaw forum, for all that have totally lost all perspective. People register, contribute what they want to. 


blsnelling said:


> Did anyone ever do this? I got no replies.


He deleted the second video Brad. I think that was probably wise as it was posted in anger. I had to download it to analyze it, but since he chose to delete it I will respect that and I will not post it. 

None of this brouhaha has anything to do with porting or saw performance anyway - it's a social problem and an example of the failure of manners and education.


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## barneyrb (Feb 6, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> None of this brouhaha has anything to do with porting or saw performance anyway - it's a social problem and an example of the_* failure of manners and education*_.



And that sir is what I have been trying to get you to establish. By not coming forth and stating where your education is from we only can assume you have no formal education. 

As for the "failure of manners" comment, you describe yourself well.

Now I have to get back to working on one of my rent houses, I have it empty for the month of Feb and doing needed repairs.


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## Tiewire (Feb 6, 2016)

*you lost a lot of cred in this thread

I've lost nothing that concerns me in the least.

Wanna bet on that. *


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## Chris-PA (Feb 6, 2016)

barneyrb said:


> And that sir is what I have been trying to get you to establish. By not coming forth and stating where your education is from we only can assume you have no formal education.


The educational failure I was thinking of is in rhetorical skills, leaving people with no ability to make a point without resorting to logical fallacies and personal attacks. Of course, for many posting in this thread the personal attack part was the whole purpose of their comments as they never had any point to make. That's where the manners part comes in. 



Tiewire said:


> Wanna bet on that.


Which means what exactly? You feel you are entitled to decide what concerns me? Perhaps I am unable to decide what I'm doing or foresee the outcome? 

Or did you mean something else?


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## Jon1212 (Feb 6, 2016)

@Chris-PA you have been asked to join that site that you have defamed here. I'm not sure why, as I still stand by my earlier opinion about the sack of phallics I believe you to be.
I am just a messenger.


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## Chris-PA (Feb 6, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> @Chris-PA you have been asked to join that site that you have defamed here. I'm not sure why, as I still stand by my earlier opinion about the sack of phallics I believe you to be.
> I am just a messenger.


Thank you, but I will (respectfully) decline.


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## Idahonative (Feb 6, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Thank you, but I will (respectfully) decline.



I'm sure the sheep over at H_arth would find your chainsaw phone app useful. Not hard to sell phony science to them though.


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## Hedgerow (Feb 6, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> Thank you, but I will (respectfully) decline.


Absolutely..
Still a free country sorta.

By the way, I used the cs500 all day today..
It is an absolute fuel mizer.
Great for clearing, as it just don't have enough ass to cut anything over 10" with any speed at all.
Needs help..


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## MillerModSaws (Feb 6, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Absolutely..
> Still a free country sorta.
> 
> By the way, I used the cs500 all day today..
> ...


I know a few guys. I know you can run a horse rasp buddy!


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## Hedgerow (Feb 6, 2016)

Hey...
I'm still ready to race...!!!
Turd saw and all...

Did I mention how light it was???
Lol.


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## Chris-PA (Feb 6, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> Absolutely..
> Still a free country sorta.
> 
> By the way, I used the cs500 all day today..
> ...


It's probably a nice saw to use, and typically well made as Echos are. Not every saw has to be a demon to be a good tool.


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## Hedgerow (Feb 6, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> It's probably a nice saw to use, and typically well made as Echos are. Not every saw has to be a demon to be a good tool.


This one needs a lil more..

Other than that, it's a fantastic tool..

Problem is, without some mods, a farm boss will knock it's **** in the dirt.
No excuse for that ****..


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## Hedgerow (Feb 6, 2016)

Have I mentioned it has an inboard clutch??

Big plus in my book..


Sorry Niko..


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## Justsaws (Feb 7, 2016)

Goodness, wtf. Anyway, actual question about the 500, the one in the photos, is there a miss fire on the exhaust port clutch side above the proper mounting hole?


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## BrotherBart (Mar 20, 2016)

Idahonative said:


> I'm sure the sheep over at H_arth would find your chainsaw phone app useful. Not hard to sell phony science to them though.



Hell yeah. Come on over. Baaaa Baaaa.


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