# Mini-excavator, use in tree service? Seeking advice.



## pdqdl (Aug 6, 2012)

Everybody tells me how wonderful the mini-skid steer machines are for tree service; I don't have one, and cannot afford it, either. Someday, maybe...

I do have a Kubota KX41-2 excavator, which might work very nicely for some things. I am thinking about adding a thumb attachment (about $1100 total) which would allow me to pick up logs and load them into trucks. Granted, it won't be handy for other cool mini-skid attachments, but it will work great for getting through 48" gates and picking up 400lb logs.

We tested it's tipping strength today; it takes about 450-500lbs to tip the machine with the excavator fully extended to it's maximum reach, 6' up in the air. (We kept adding people on the tip until we could pull it down; it took 3 of us. Two hanging, and the third guy pulling.) Furthermore, I believe I will have a much higher loading height than any mini-skid, so I can load my trucks better.

I imagine that the travel speed is a bit slower, and the machine is no doubt heavier than a normal mini-skid. [3710lbs "operating weight"] On the other hand, it will be able to do a lot of moving and handling of brush and logs without even moving the tracks. _Tearing apart brush piles and feeding a chipper comes to mind._

Has anybody got any experience or comments on this plan?


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## Zale (Aug 6, 2012)

If you got it, use it. How much would the thumb cost? It won't be perfect for every job but its better than hand loading.


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## pdqdl (Aug 6, 2012)

My probable cost for everything to make it work:

"Thumb" complete with everything but hydraulic lines=$860.00 (includes shipping)
Pressure bypass on thumb cylinder to avoid ruptured hyd. cylinder.=$99+shipping (maybe not needed) 
Four hydraulic hoses with fittings= about $150.00 (if I am lucky)
Different control valve on excavator: $350.00 (just a wild guess)

The excavator already has an accessory hyd. control valve with all the lines out to the bucket. Unfortunately, the valve is only suited for a single acting cylinder, or more properly, a hydraulic attachment like a compactor or a breaker that only uses one direction of flow. I discovered this later today, but I don't have a price yet from the dealer. Naturally, I will check it all out before I buy any dealer part. _I could just add that part later, and use the bucket to fold it back up._

Labor? No real number on that. Probably about 8 hours of one of my guys time; excluding my efforts to shop and find stuff to finish with.


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## fishinpa (Aug 7, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> My probable cost for everything to make it work:
> 
> "Thumb" complete with everything but hydraulic lines=$860.00 (includes shipping)
> Pressure bypass on thumb cylinder to avoid ruptured hyd. cylinder.=$99+shipping (maybe not needed)
> ...



I have a friend that used to use something similar, with a grapple att. They used it for dragging brush to the chipper as well. Eventually he found a used MT-55 for around 10k with a grapple bucket and now uses that instead. It is better suited fro the job, faster and easier to transport.


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## imagineero (Aug 7, 2012)

It totally depends on the type of work that you do. Over in the states you guys seem a lot more geared up and mechanised, plenty of mini skidders, chippers with grapples, and some guys operating their own cranes. In aus, mini skidders are almost unheard of for tree work, because most tree work is residnetial/city type stuff where there simply is no access. I've done some jobs where we carried trees through peoples living rooms.

If you've got the access, then machinery pays off. You can go from doing a job with 2 or 3 groundies to doing it with 1 groundie, or keeping the same number of guys but getting a whole lot more work done in a day, assuming you have the chipper and truck to keep up. You can get around lawn damage by laying ply.

If you're a smaller time operator then it probably isn't worth it. Your money would probably be better spent on a stump grinder, bigger chipper, or bigger/newer truck. 

Shaun


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## flushcut (Aug 8, 2012)

I have used both, a mini excavator/skidsteer. I found the mini ex to be ok but not nearly as versatile as a mini skid, that being said the mini ex fed my chipper well enough as I was chipping whole small willows.(6-12"dbh x 20-35') I go with the business modle "use what you got and use it until it's used up"


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## mattfr12 (Aug 8, 2012)

mini excavator works pretty well. if you have a thumb they are the shiznit for feeding a chipper. im not a fan of mini skids i use an s250 bobcat alot and most of the logs i use it to lift maxes it out putting it on its nose. i have no idea what i would do with a mini skid. we did some work for another tree service that had one and it sure did help, but the compacity was like 500 pounds. our john deere 2305 is a little tractor that will load over the side of a dump truck and lifts closer to 1500# and is alot cheaper than a mini. i wouldnt ever pay full price for a mini only way i would pick one up is if it was a couple grand and in pretty good shape. on the last job it took everything my s250 had to roll those logs.


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## pdqdl (Aug 8, 2012)

flushcut said:


> I have used both, a mini excavator/skidsteer. I found the mini ex to be ok but not nearly as versatile as a mini skid, that being said the mini ex fed my chipper well enough as I was chipping whole small willows.(6-12"dbh x 20-35') I go with the business modle "use what you got and use it until it's used up"



Did you have a thumb on your mini-ex ?


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## flushcut (Aug 9, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> Did you have a thumb on your mini-ex ?



It was a borrowed machine and it did have the thumb with a tooth bucket. I found it took a little geting use to but once I got the distance and swing dialed in it was all good.


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## no tree to big (Aug 9, 2012)

a few weeks ago we basically had a forced demo of a Vermeer 600 thing was almost useless for picking up big diameter stuff most of the problem was in the design of the grapple that was on it but the machine was tipping with hardly any weight, we take bigger pieces with the log cart...


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## pdqdl (Aug 9, 2012)

I think the thumb I am looking at would max out at a 18"-20" log. I could sure slice 4' diameter logs into 18" long wafers, then load them into the truck. Even a wafer that size is way too big to load by hand.


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## mattfr12 (Aug 9, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> a few weeks ago we basically had a forced demo of a Vermeer 600 thing was almost useless for picking up big diameter stuff most of the problem was in the design of the grapple that was on it but the machine was tipping with hardly any weight, we take bigger pieces with the log cart...



ya they only lift in the 100's of pounds. vermeer did the same thing down here. i can see how it would be useful if you where just dragging brush or moving medium sized wood. but for big stuff they can't do much. we max my s250 bobcat out every time it comes out and sometimes thats less than a 6-7 foot long log. it doesn't take a whole lot of oak to make 2500#


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## pdqdl (Aug 10, 2012)

I didn't think the S250 was that much smaller than the A300. I routinely pick up about 4k logs, but you have to be REAL careful. I use the bed of the truck to nudge against so that it doesn't tip onto it's nose. Gotta leave it on the ground until you get to the truck, unless you are driving up a hill.

When you go to buying another machine, look real hard at the all wheel steer. It has twice as much traction, and does less turf damage. I have about 2000 hours on mine, and I am still on the original tires, so the extra money for the all wheel steer pays off quickly in performance and reduced expenses.


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## tramp bushler (Aug 10, 2012)

It's. Old fashion but works good for moving logs not as good for the brush. 
A set of tongs. Log tongs if you have a pad eye on the back of the bucket just shackle a short section of chain on and a shackle in the ring of the tongs. You can heel with it just by curling the bucket down like you were dumping the bucket.
Before they invented thumbs that was how pioneer shovel operators would deck the right of way logs before digging the sub grade of a Loggin road. A thumb is faster. But tongs aren't slow compared to some type of end loader.


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## mattfr12 (Aug 10, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> I didn't think the S250 was that much smaller than the A300. I routinely pick up about 4k logs, but you have to be REAL careful. I use the bed of the truck to nudge against so that it doesn't tip onto it's nose. Gotta leave it on the ground until you get to the truck, unless you are driving up a hill.
> 
> When you go to buying another machine, look real hard at the all wheel steer. It has twice as much traction, and does less turf damage. I have about 2000 hours on mine, and I am still on the original tires, so the extra money for the all wheel steer pays off quickly in performance and reduced expenses.



It's not much smaller my forks are bending down tho so I gotta lift it up to keep it on. Need a new set of forks just haven't had any time to pick any up. I had a grapple but wore it out a few years ago. Stay away from versatech products. Bent there forks and there grapple only lasted a few days. Big big waste of money.


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## capetrees (Aug 10, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> Everybody tells me how wonderful the mini-skid steer machines are for tree service; I don't have one, and cannot afford it, either. Someday, maybe...
> 
> I do have a Kubota KX41-2 excavator, which might work very nicely for some things. I am thinking about adding a thumb attachment (about $1100 total) which would allow me to pick up logs and load them into trucks. Granted, it won't be handy for other cool mini-skid attachments, but it will work great for getting through 48" gates and picking up 400lb logs.
> 
> ...



Look around. Anyone that does land clearing has an excavator with a thumb. Huge plus on an excavator. Every excavator I've ever run has had a thumb and if it didn't, it felt completely useless. A mini with a thumb grabs and pulls brush, lifts logs, digs, pulls and lifts stumps, can be used to push leaners, will feed the chipper and on the side, can do other small trenching and excavating when trees aren't the game of the day. The cost of the thumb will more than pay for itself in a very short time. Go with a hydraulic thumb as opposed to the fixed one and keep the prongs of the thumb as wide as the bucket to prevent offset logs from cranking and bending the thumb/piston. :msp_thumbup::msp_thumbup:


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## husqvarnaguy (Aug 10, 2012)

We use a cat 305 for tree work and everything else. You will be surprised what these little machines will do. Ours has a stationary thumb that we made. It works great for the price.


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## pdqdl (Aug 10, 2012)

I was considering a stationary version, too. I kinda think I would be happier if I added one that was always ready, rather than making the operator get off the machine to set the thumb out for that occasional rock when you are trenching.


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## treeoperations (Aug 12, 2012)

im running a 323 bobcat with full rotating bunching grapple and it has its place. if you have to move alot of brush its faster to pick up slew then drop then it is to pick up and drag, also you will eat tracks and final drives dragging brush long distances.

im looking at changing to a clamp stlye grab that i can just use when needed and put the grapple onto a mini loader. 

its all horses for courses.

driving a digger and feeding chipper with fixed grab takes some practice and alot of thinking out side the square.


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## riderup (Aug 14, 2012)

I am not a tree service, we do clearing and excavation but we do have minis and large excavators. I have a few things to input, first do yourself a favor and get a pin on thumb so you won't be ripping off hydro lines with brush plus they are only a third of the price. Also the minis are not really designed for back and forth running and are really slow ( 2 mph) not a big deal if you are right next to road but if you are bringing brush from back yard this will get old fast. Plus replacing the tracks and under carriage is expensive and you will wear your out pretty quickly running back and forth.


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## pdqdl (Aug 14, 2012)

I agree with the slow and expensive travel. That is my primary concern, hence my request for advice.

What would be a "pin on" thumb, and why would that affect ripping off hydraulic lines? The one I was looking at has a link posted above. It is a "weld-on" style; I don't understand how the attachment method would cause hydraulic lines to break unless you didn't put them on correctly. Obviously, if your weld fails, it will peel off the boom, probably ruining some lines. 

If that is what we are talking about, I would consider the damage to the lines incidental to the damage done to the boom.


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## pdqdl (Aug 14, 2012)

I think I get it...You were talking about a "fixed" thumb, that uses no hydraulic lines at all?


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## capetrees (Aug 14, 2012)

Amulet Manufacturing Company - HOME

click products, thumbs, hoe clamp.


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## pdqdl (Aug 14, 2012)

Thanks Cape, but those are the manufacturer. The link I posted above is for the same products, but from a dealer.

Good work finding it though. It took me a little while to find one that would fit my machine.


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## treeoperations (Aug 15, 2012)

look at A-WARD


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## capetrees (Aug 15, 2012)

The amulet hoe clamp is a happy in between in that it doesn't require any hydraulics and isn't a thumb you need to pin back everty time. It works off of your existing piston/bucket/hinge system. You may need to change out a pin or two to accomodate.


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## pdqdl (Aug 20, 2012)

I don't think they make the hoe-clamp in mini-excavator sizes, although I did not speak to them about it. 

That device is best suited for putting on machines with an extend-a-hoe feature. A traditional thumb can't be added to those machines, because the thumb attaches to the extension where it slides into the upper boom. That would really plug up the extension feature.

I suspect the hoe-clamp gets in the way if you are just digging dirt.


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## capetrees (Aug 20, 2012)

I've used and have seen plenty of Bobcat mini excavators with hoe-clamps installed at Bobcat. The clamp itself actually help when digging, it grabs and secures more dirt.

http://www.equipmentland.com/categories/Thumbs-&-Grapples/Hoeclamp/


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## Andy Angels (Jul 22, 2013)

Position your near the stump you wish to remove. You do not, however, want to be too close, as you must dig a trench around the perimeter of the stump.Dig the trench a few feet away from the edge of the stump and around its perimeter.


Regards.
Andy Angels.


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