# Maple oozing gel-like substance



## cam (Jun 19, 2007)

I have a 70 to 80 foot Red Maple and for the last couple years around spring time, I have noticed small patches of clear liquid that turns white after a couple of days (aprox 2 inch long runs) but only on about a few areas of the tree. Is this sap or Maple syrup by any chance?
Cam


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## Canyonbc (Jun 19, 2007)

Sorry i dont no, but that is intresting

Have you typed into a search engine, like google and taken your research from there


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## treeseer (Jun 19, 2007)

how does the ooz smell?

post a pic and you will hear a lot more theories.

www.forestryimages


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## McNeely (Jun 25, 2007)

Just out of curiosity, what else could it be besides sap?


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## BonsaiJedi (Jun 27, 2007)

Other than sap (esp if it turns white after a few days) it could be "bacterial wetwood" caused by the bacteria _Erwinia nimipressurali_. Google Images this condition and see if the gunk dripping out of your tree is similar. Very common on many hardwoods, not considered a tree health issue.


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## Dixie1 (Jun 27, 2007)

BonsaiJedi said:


> Other than sap (esp if it turns white after a few days) it could be "bacterial wetwood" caused by the bacteria _Erwinia nimipressurali_. Google Images this condition and see if the gunk dripping out of your tree is similar. Very common on many hardwoods, not considered a tree health issue.



unless it is a bark/cambial infection
link to info on both slime flux and wetwood (6th paragraph down discusses bark/cambial infection)

http://utahpests.usu.edu/plantdiseases/htm/ornamental/slime


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## BonsaiJedi (Jun 27, 2007)

I have never heard of wetwood/slime flux killing a tree on its own. That Utah post talks about cambial infections that kills willows and poplars without naming a causal agent so I can't speak to that. I do know that maples with _Erwinia _live long, happy (albiet bark-stained) lives. Some photos of this tree in question would help direct this conversation a little better.


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## Dixie1 (Jun 27, 2007)

picture would help nail it down. i experienced a bark infection last summer on a row of 6 scarlet oaks which did end up dying. the trees appeared to be fine. one day we heard a hissing sound and noticed the white foamy ooze. then noticed the smell. all of the bark on the lateral limbs and trunk had burst open from the pressure. quite an interesting ordeal. here are pictures of my experience. does your maple look like this?


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## jrparbor04 (Jun 27, 2007)

i dont believe that to be slim flux,,,also looks like in your second picture that the tree is already stressed from possible other factors


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## BonsaiJedi (Jun 27, 2007)

Wow, Dixie...that's some of the craziest stuff I've seen on a tree in a long time! That bark cracking is impressive! Did you ever get an ID on the causal organism? And was the tree stressed prior to this onset?


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## treeseer (Jun 27, 2007)

It is very common in nc. the attached is from tci magazine 2004. the oaks at the unc quad are mostly asymptomatic 3 years after the sanitation treatment.


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## Dixie1 (Jun 28, 2007)

jrparbor04 said:


> i dont believe that to be slim flux,,,also looks like in your second picture that the tree is already stressed from possible other factors



how can you tell the tree is already stressed with such a close up picture of just the bark? the cracks happened due to the bursting of the fermenting bacteria. it wasn't slime flux. it was a cambial infection which is a little different.

BonsaiJedi,

i guess you could say they were planted in stressful conditions? the soil is utter crap. however, they were in an irrigated area with adequate water. it appeared during last July when our temperatures reached the upper 90's! It was within a matter of 2 weeks for it to run its course. after that, there was severe branch dieback. These trees had been planted for about 4 years and were getting good size and looked healthy prior to this. Due to the severe damage we opted to remove them and replant with little leaf lindens. We will see. There were 9 scarlet oaks in a row and all but three had it. As far as id of the causal organism, i sent off samples of leaves and limbs and they said it was "environmental factors", a pretty common response from out plant disease clinic. I beg to differ with their conclusion. I actually took a culture myself and let it grow and sent pictures of the growth via email to several plant pathologist at a different university and did not get an id, probably since they didn't get to see it under the scope. so, no conclusion.


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## BonsaiJedi (Jun 28, 2007)

yeah, maybe "environmental factors" inside the vascular tissue! I showed your pics to everyone here in the office and each time got a "whoa!" when they saw it. That's wild, keep me posted if you ever see it in your area again, Dixie. I'd like to see more! opcorn:


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## Dixie1 (Jun 28, 2007)

very unfortunate we lost the trees, but i did save some of the branches for when i do educational "tree talks" on unique diseases and problems. people like that one because it is so bizarre looking. you don't hear hissing trees too often. let me know if anyone has anymore thought on it too.


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## treeseer (Jun 28, 2007)

OK for more pix see page 32 here: http://www.tcia.org/PDFs/TCI_Mag_09_04_FULLsm.pdf

Wrote this four years ago--time's flyin when yer dyin!--, and not much has changed since. :rockn: same treatment still works, no great improvements developed. My fave pic is the one with armillaria shoestrings stunted by the slime.

The causal organisms are a cocktail of normal soil bacteria. Like some fungal species that are mycorhizal in low numbers at the dripline, but lethal wood rotters when concentrated in wood.

1 more pic attached.


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## Dixie1 (Jun 29, 2007)

that looks just like what we had but on an older tree. pretty grose, but very interesting.


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## BonsaiJedi (Jun 29, 2007)

treeseer said:


> OK for more pix see page 32 here: http://www.tcia.org/PDFs/TCI_Mag_09_04_FULLsm.pdf
> 
> Wrote this four years ago--time's flyin when yer dyin!--, and not much has changed since. :rockn: same treatment still works, no great improvements developed. My fave pic is the one with armillaria shoestrings stunted by the slime.
> 
> ...



Good Article, and nice pictures.
Guy, you may be interested to know the John Lloyd quoted in your article is now the science officer for our sister company, Rainbow Treecare, here in Minneapolis. He doing a lot of work to incorporate the thinkings and findings of the academia world with the day to day world of running a tree care company. He's definately an asset to have around!

The article mentions most bacteriacides are phytotoxic to trees. RTSA has come out with a tree-safe, water soluble OTC formulation, Bacastat. It is applied through our micro-injector. Have you tried this in slime flux treatments yet? :monkey:


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## treeseer (Jun 29, 2007)

BonsaiJedi said:


> The article mentions most bacteriacides are phytotoxic to trees. RTSA has come out with a tree-safe, water soluble OTC formulation, Bacastat. It is applied through our micro-injector. Have you tried this in slime flux treatments yet? :monkey:


I do inject a swirl of spores and other bioactive microorganisms, which I hope have some bactericidal properties, but no I have not tried Bacastat yet. What's weird is some of the bacteria that show up the most in the slime are the same ones I was about to apply. :censored: PHC's Compete product.

I just bet you could post a link straight to bacastat's fact sheet on rtsa! 
Why not try it huh? But...if bacteria in soil is good, and it's only bad when it moves into the stem, wouldn't something topical be better?
That might kill the bacteria without wounding the tree, as microinjections do. If we are going to experiment with a nonwounding product, what about cambistat? It kills xylella in high concentrations in the lab, right?
And does rtsa talk about disinfecting wounds along with the use of the product?

I just walked the quad at unc again; all old treated sites inactive, but more popping up on other trees. I'd like to assemble some students next month and treat them all; no$ but fine PR because it's so high-profile and it MAY be a large enough sample to comprise formal research.

2 new breakouts this year in the pics.


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## BonsaiJedi (Jul 2, 2007)

treeseer said:


> I
> I just bet you could post a link straight to bacastat's fact sheet on rtsa!
> Why not try it huh? But...if bacteria in soil is good, and it's only bad when it moves into the stem, wouldn't something topical be better?
> That might kill the bacteria without wounding the tree, as microinjections do.
> ...



Beneficial soil bacteria and pathogenic bacteria are different animals all together. Tree-friendly Trichoderma is not likely the bacteria causing exploding bark!
Not sure if anyone has ever researched a topical antibiotic treamtent for trees but based the little bit I know about the chemistry of them I don't see it as possible. They break down quickly in light and air so spraying onto the foliage or woody parts would result in a lot of wasted product with little getting into the tree. Wounding is not desirable but the best tool we have at the moment.
I, too, saw the article by DeStephano regarding PBZ and Xylella. Interesting lab work. He unfortunately never alluded to WHY 10x the label rate of PBZ may not be feasible from a managment standpoint. Think small leaves!...but it was an intersting study nontheless. Would be interesting to study it for other bacterial diseases to see its effect on their growth as well. Hmmm...I could certainly put you in touch with our research director, Guy... 
I looked through our protocol and we do not have a specific disinfecting recommendation but I can make the case that we should. Good suggestion!


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## treeseer (Jul 2, 2007)

BonsaiJedi said:


> Beneficial soil bacteria and pathogenic bacteria are different animals all together. Tree-friendly Trichoderma is not likely the bacteria causing exploding bark!


Why not? The bacteria are not pathogenic in that they seek out tor feed on living tissue; the bark only explodes when the bacteria multiply.


> Not sure if anyone has ever researched a topical antibiotic treamtent for trees but based the little bit I know about the chemistry of them I don't see it as possible. They break down quickly in light and air so spraying onto the foliage or woody parts would result in a lot of wasted product with little getting into the tree. Wounding is not desirable but the best tool we have at the moment.
> ...we do not have a specific disinfecting recommendation but I can make the case that we should. Good suggestion!


Topical antibiotic and disinfection are the same thing. HO3 or weak bleach--or?--is only applied to xylem that is exposed because the bark has been blown off. I don't see n injected bactericide working on this--applied after the ooze happens seems too late, and applied prophylactically would be way more $ and wounding than seems justified, given the scattered and random [pattern to the outbreaks.


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