# What's best way to re-direct climbing line?



## raymondvillain (Aug 20, 2012)

What do you guys do when you're in a tree on a climbing line and you can't get past your pulley (doubled rope technique)?

From the ground I place a cambium saver in the highest accessible crotch, then put a rope through it with a pulley on the end. Snug the pulley up against the cambium saver rings and anchor the rope to a port a wrap on some trunk. My climbing line is attached to my harness and runs over the pulley and back down to my hands. Often I find myself working up against the pulley but needing to go higher.

I have tried carrying another climbing line aloft, and positioned it higher using a throw line with a shot bag, sending up a pulley etc. and duplicating the first set-up but just higher up. It works, but it is a lot of gear to have to hoist up there.

I could also just use the throw line to put a second climbing line through a higher crotch and just do the drt thing letting the climbing line grind against the bark in the crotch. If the tree is not coming down I don't wear spikes so hiking up the branches is not an option.

What does an experienced arborist like to do when you need to re-direct like that?


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## rtsims (Aug 21, 2012)

I gather two things from your post. 
1) your talking about *advancing your climb line not redirecting your climb line.*
2) If your DRT what are you doing using a porta wrap to "anchor" your line?

As far as advancing your climb line goes.. Get to your TIP, tie in with your lanyard, then climbing advance your line to the easiest location above you. Sometimes you have to do this dozens of times to reach your ideal TIP. 
If tying in with your lanyard is not ideal, pull up the tail of your climb line, advance that end over your next TIP and attach it to your saddle. Then attach another friction hitch and undo your original attachments. Of coarse you cant do this if your line is anchored to a porta wrap, which makes no sence to me if your climbing DRT. Hope this helps. Or i guess i could have mis understood your post.


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## Guran (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm in no way an expert in climbing and concider myself to be an the beginning of the learning curve. But as I understand it, Raymond wants to re-crotch and not re-direct. And I don't see him mentioning a porta-wrap anywhere?
When I want to advance my climbing line higher up an re-crotch I usually take my climbing line to pull my pole pruner up to my tie in point.After that I send my climbing line further up with the pole pruner while I'm tied in with my lanyard.
Just my two cents.... :smile2:


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## beastmaster (Aug 21, 2012)

The Best way to advance your line is don't. Learn to SRT and get a big shot. That way your line is already set in the highest part of the tree. You can DRT off the SRT line using a prussic and a carabiner. Adjusting it where you need it. 
If that isn't an option, I just alternate between my lanyard and climbing line as I climb to the next branch. If the branches are spaced far apart I'll use just the end of my climbing line and git it over branches above me. I carry a pole saw or pole pruner with me as I climb lots of the time and they make it handy to get the rope up over a big gap between branches.
I hardly use a throw ball in the tree, except in rare cases. 
It hard to position your throw line up high for DRT. Amost never do the two ropes come down next to each other. But that isn't importent using SRT. Just saying.


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## raymondvillain (Aug 21, 2012)

*re-crotch or re-direct*

Thanks so much, folks, for all your suggestions.

I agree completely with Beastmaster's comment about drt and "almost never" do the two ends of the rope come down in a useful way.

I'm taking down a dying poplar (will post pix soon) and there's no way to get a drt climbing line as high as I need to. Never done srt before now so I guess its time to start. Have a big shot, will use that to position srt and just hike on up. And yes it is difficult to use a throw line and weight when the branches are thick and leafy and you can't see where to throw. Never thought about using a prusik and carabiner to position a pulley for setting a drt off an srt. Great suggestion.

I agree with Guran that "re-crotch" is a better way to describe the situation.

In my first post I was trying to describe how a port-a-wrap holds a fixed line that is over a crotch. This line has a pulley at the upper end for the drt. 

Thanks again for all the help.

P. S. If re-crotch is the best term to use for this situation, what is meant by re-directing the climbing line?


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## rtsims (Aug 21, 2012)

Recrotching is improving your work position by positioning your tip to a different location in the tree using the other end of your climb line, as i explained in my previouse post. Also called Double Rope end Climbing. 

Redirects are either mechanical or natural. An example of a mechanical redirect would be using a webbing sling attached to a carabiner and girth hitching it to a limb then running your climb line through it to redirect your line from your tip. A natural redirect would be running your line through a crotch to better your work position, or over a limb ect.. I use both very often, just remember when you use a mechanical redirect you have to be able to climb back to it to retrieve it. 

Advancing your climb line is doing just that, advancing your line to a position higher in the tree using one of several techniques. Theres the alternate lanyard technique, throwline, throwing knot, pole saw etc. 
Hope that helps.


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## beastmaster (Aug 22, 2012)

Not to keep harping on the SRT thing, but with SRT you can keep feeding the end of your SRT rope throu crouch's and branch forks all over the tree and not have to ascend again to remove any chokers. Really its made for redirecting. You got to admit some times its a pain to have to go retrive those redirect chokers, and if you use natural crouch's it binds your line making it hard to go up or down on a DRT.


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## tramp bushler (Aug 22, 2012)

This thread is a good one answered some questions that I had. Thanks all.


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## rtsims (Aug 22, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> Not to keep harping on the SRT thing, but with SRT you can keep feeding the end of your SRT rope throu crouch's and branch forks all over the tree and not have to ascend again to remove any chokers. Really its made for redirecting. You got to admit some times its a pain to have to go retrive those redirect chokers, and if you use natural crouch's it binds your line making it hard to go up or down on a DRT.



Beast what set up are you using for your srt? And do you usually use a running bowline or are you anchoring to the tree? I know for a fact that srt has its place and is very efficient, i have even been looking at the rope wrench. I currently use the RADS set up, Gri Gri, handle acsender, micro pulley but it doesnt come out of the gear bag that often. Are you acsending most climbs srt then switching over or are you staying in srt?


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## beastmaster (Aug 22, 2012)

rtsims said:


> Beast what set up are you using for your srt? And do you usually use a running bowline or are you anchoring to the tree? I know for a fact that srt has its place and is very efficient, i have even been looking at the rope wrench. I currently use the RADS set up, Gri Gri, handle acsender, micro pulley but it doesnt come out of the gear bag that often. Are you acsending most climbs srt then switching over or are you staying in srt?



I almost always attach my line to the base of the tree. Using a running bowline to attach to a high limb, you run into the same problems you do trying to hook up a DRT. You can shoot your line over the whole tree and tie the end to somewhere on the ground and be ready to ascend. 
I use the RADs with a gri gri. and except for really high ascends I just foot lock and not use the footloop attached to the hand ascender. They say thats 3 to 1 but I'm old and lazy 3 to 1 is ok by me most the time. 
What technic I use depends on the tree. lots of times I just ascend on SRT then switch to DRT. For trimming the outer canopy of big trees SRT is perfect allowing you to go out towards the end then lowering your self trimming that side of the tree. Long limb walks I feel more comfortable with DRT. 
I like the rope wrench but haven't used it enough to be really comfortable with it. It's hard for me to ascend with, but I'm still working on that. I DRT with the gri gri sometimes. 
Being able to flow from one technic to another is the key I think. None of it is perfect 100% of the time. If you start ascending on your rads, you'll save time and energy getting in the trees and the rest will come. Just be safe. A tight single line only needs to be nicked with a hand saw to come apart. Be careful and go slow at first.


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## ATH (Aug 22, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> ....
> Being able to flow from one technic to another is the key I think. None of it is perfect 100% of the time. ......
> 
> Be careful and go slow at first.



Just piping in to agree that being well-rounded in each technique and knowing when one is better than the other is "key"!


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## rtsims (Aug 22, 2012)

I agree. As far as the srt goes, i have never worked out a tree using srt, only to acsend. The main reason being i dont find the Gri Gri to be very user friendly while limb walking etc, and i have no other hardware lilke the wrench to try. I also need to invest in a different 11mm line, my current line is New England "Fly" and i dont like the way my VT handles on it. Im guessing its because it considered a Kernmantle line. Ive tried bee line and HRC and variations of the VT but none are up to par with my HRC on my 1/2" line. Rambling on now, suppose that belongs in the other thread.


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## beastmaster (Aug 23, 2012)

I am very happy with Blaze 11mm line with a 10mm bee line with Vt or gri gri. It milks a little but nothing to be concerned about.


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## ropensaddle (Aug 23, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> The Best way to advance your line is don't. Learn to SRT and get a big shot. That way your line is already set in the highest part of the tree. You can DRT off the SRT line using a prussic and a carabiner. Adjusting it where you need it.
> If that isn't an option, I just alternate between my lanyard and climbing line as I climb to the next branch. If the branches are spaced far apart I'll use just the end of my climbing line and git it over branches above me. I carry a pole saw or pole pruner with me as I climb lots of the time and they make it handy to get the rope up over a big gap between branches.
> I hardly use a throw ball in the tree, except in rare cases.
> It hard to position your throw line up high for DRT. Amost never do the two ropes come down next to each other. But that isn't importent using SRT. Just saying.



Phfffffat lol the best way is big snot and wraptor oke:


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## beastmaster (Aug 23, 2012)

ropensaddle said:


> Phfffffat lol the best way is big snot and wraptor oke:



You got me there.:msp_biggrin:


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## Guran (Aug 23, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> Lots of times I just ascend on SRT then switch to DRT. For trimming the outer canopy of big trees SRT is perfect allowing you to go out towards the end then lowering your self trimming that side of the tree. Long limb walks I feel more comfortable with DRT.



Beast; can you please evolve a bit around this? Found that very interesting. Would be great to hear more about when to choose SRT or DdRT when working in the canopy or when limb walking.


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## limbwalker71 (Aug 23, 2012)

raymondvillain said:


> What do you guys do when you're in a tree on a climbing line and you can't get past your pulley (doubled rope technique)?
> 
> From the ground I place a cambium saver in the highest accessible crotch, then put a rope through it with a pulley on the end. Snug the pulley up against the cambium saver rings and anchor the rope to a port a wrap on some trunk. My climbing line is attached to my harness and runs over the pulley and back down to my hands. Often I find myself working up against the pulley but needing to go higher.
> 
> ...



splittail ! it allows you to move and redirect your line where n when ever you need to !


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## beastmaster (Aug 24, 2012)

limbwalker71 said:


> splittail ! it allows you to move and redirect your line where n when ever you need to !



A slit-tail. An excellent and to the point answer. Make sure you also have a pulley to advance your knot, or your cheating your self. 



Guran said:


> Beast; can you please evolve a bit around this? Found that very interesting. Would be great to hear more about when to choose SRT or DdRT when working in the canopy or when limb walking.



Other then you tube I learn to SRT on my own. With that being said I've made at lest two near fatal mistakes. Both times I had back ups that I rarely use now. I knicked my single rope with my hand saw and it snapped like a rubber band. I had my safety over a branch, or I'd of taking a good fall. Again on a straight up vertical ascend the main branch I was over started to slowly go. I was able to get my safety around the truck. Just saying, it's not rocket science, but a mistake can kill you. 
I tried at first to do everything SRT. Wasted a lot of time. I have been doing double rope my whole life. If I am going to limb walk way out there on a skinny branch I like the feel of both ropes. I can stabilize my self better. You can use double rope with the gri gri. I do it a lot if the job is such as I have a lot of tension on the rope so I can one handedly squeeze the gri gri, sucks for limb walking, even on a single rope IMHO.
I learned this my self, but if you keep advancing the end of your SRT line over branches, you can work a whole side of a tree while ascending. If you have to go up some for another redirect it's no problem. Work your way outside and down on the tree and you can effectively and easily work half to a third of a tree from the outside(almost) in. The redirect doesn't have to be that strong, cuz each redirect shares some of your weight. Once on the ground retrieve your line and go back up and do the other side(s). have a dedicated line left in tree for re-entry. Sometimes you may want to run a double rope off of the dedicated single line, using a prussic and carabiner. tying a stopper knot under the prussic. An alpine butterfly works for that and can be removed from the ground.
You just need to do it and you'll get a feel. It'll come natrual . You tube too. Good luck and be safe


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## ozzy42 (Aug 26, 2012)

ropensaddle said:


> Phfffffat lol the best way is big snot and wraptor oke:



Big SNOT? 
No wonder you don't have any groundies.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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