# best bench grinder for sharpening chains?



## Tree94 (Feb 6, 2017)

Long story short, I don't have the patience to hand file and my hands get carpal tunnel when I do...

Looking for info on the best bench grinder to purchase.
I've searched through this forum a bit and found some old post's hyping up the Oregon 511.
Wondering if that's still the best grinder on the market right now in 2017?

Thanks guys!
Russ


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## bayard (Feb 6, 2017)

you could spend 100$ or 400-500$ ,the northern 100$ works well for most.i have done 2 or 300 chain sharpening,s, with it.


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## Philbert (Feb 6, 2017)

Oregon 511A was 'the standard' to which other grinders are compared. The current model is the model 520-120. 

https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/accessories/BenchGrinder_520-120.htm

Philbert


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## tylerbeach3 (Feb 10, 2017)

Got it, love it!


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## hedge hog (Feb 10, 2017)

I have had 511A but if you can afford it it's worth it
The stones are much better


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## hedge hog (Feb 10, 2017)

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## Philbert (Feb 10, 2017)

hedge hog said:


>


Looks like a phone booth!
(Someone please explain what that is to the millennials on the forum?)

Philbert


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 10, 2017)

Dr. Who's tardis


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## hedge hog (Feb 10, 2017)

After 50 or so chains and 2 .404 205 drive link that needed double passes and rakers set to .032
Stays really clean 
The vac pulls 95% of all the sparks


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## Khntr85 (Feb 18, 2017)

hedge hog said:


> After 50 or so chains and 2 .404 205 drive link that needed double passes and rakers set to .032
> Stays really clean
> The vac pulls 95% of all the sparks
> 
> ...


You have a nice set up....

Did you ever try the CBN wheels???


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## Khntr85 (Feb 18, 2017)

Well I have not tried the Stihl grinder...... I do have the newest Oregon grinder, the 520-120 model.....I was in the same excact position you were in, with my little 18-month old girl taking up a lot of my time, drinking beer and hand filing chains in the garage at night don't cut it anymore LOl......

I was 100% against grinder, I only thought hand filing would get the correct profile on a chain....I decided to give the grinder a try and well my opinion was wrong, frankly......you can turn out an absolutely GREAT cutting chain, with all the angles the same......like with any tool however, there is a brief learning curve....if you can be patient threw this "learning" period and get to know the grinder, you will be shocked at how good a chain can turn out....

I won't get into it, but you can go even a step further and eventually get CBN wheels that stay the same shape forever.....

I will leave you with some pics of chains I have ground....


Stihl RS(chisel chain) 




You can also just "touch-up" a chain like this, and not hardly remove any material....



Stihl RM(semi-chisel)


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## hedge hog (Feb 18, 2017)

I have 3/8 - .404 one for the big chains and really like it 
So I will be getting.325 wheel
Diamond wheel is brand I have


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## Khntr85 (Feb 18, 2017)

Here is what the chips looked like from the firsf chisel chain I ground(once I started getting the hang of grinding)....

The wood is dry hard ash....


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## Khntr85 (Feb 18, 2017)

hedge hog said:


> I have 3/8 - .404 one for the big chains and really like it
> So I will be getting.325 wheel
> Diamond wheel is brand I have
> 
> ...


Yes sir, mine are diamond wheel brand also..... the first CBN I got was 3/16 for the 3/8 chain.....not to long after I used it a few times, I knew I had to get an 1/8 for the smaller .325 and lo-pro chains....

I tell ya they are great, but I do still use the stone wheels......I like using the stones on really bad "rocked" chains, and cleaning out gullets that are really bad.......

Is that Stihl grinder a lot better than the Oregon you had, in your opinion?????


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## Khntr85 (Feb 18, 2017)

tylerbeach3 said:


> Got it, love it!


How long have you had the Oregon grinder..... I tell ya I have to agree I am more happy with that grinder than I ever thought I would be!!!!


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## hedge hog (Feb 18, 2017)

Built like a tank 
A lot heavier
Motor seems to be over kill
But I really like there stones
They cut really fast and don't blue the cutters but seem to need reshaped more often 

I use the .404 wheels for rakers and get along very good


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## hedge hog (Feb 18, 2017)

They hinge is the part on the Stihl that that really stands out 
Ball and socket type that is fully adjustable 

But most grinders do a good job it more so in the operators 



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## Khntr85 (Feb 19, 2017)

hedge hog said:


> They hinge is the part on the Stihl that that really stands out
> Ball and socket type that is fully adjustable
> 
> But most grinders do a good job it more so in the operators
> ...


Yep that the best answer...... the operator can make or break a grinder, same with saws and any other equipment!!!!


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## tylerbeach3 (Feb 19, 2017)

Ive found out that that "learning curve" is for real. A caliper has helped me. I finally am cutting straight lol. Does anyone have to readjust the left hand cutter length after doing the right hand? Seemed wierd but i needed an almost half turn to set the teeth equal.


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## tylerbeach3 (Feb 19, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> How long have you had the Oregon grinder..... I tell ya I have to agree I am more happy with that grinder than I ever thought I would be!!!!


A couple weeks. Still a noob but am learning...


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## Philbert (Feb 20, 2017)

tylerbeach3 said:


> Does anyone have to readjust the left hand cutter length after doing the right hand? Seemed wierd but i needed an almost half turn to set the teeth equal.


Pretty common on Oregon style grinders. Check out centering instructions in your grinder's manual. 

Philbert


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## Bobby2 (Feb 20, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> You have a nice set up....
> 
> Did you ever try the CBN wheels???


Very nice setup you have. What's the story on these CBN wheels you mentioned ? I've been using stones and they heat up the tooth no matter how slow you go


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## Philbert (Feb 20, 2017)

Bobby2 said:


> I've been using stones and they heat up the tooth no matter how slow you go


Do you dress your wheels every loop or so?

Philbert


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## hedge hog (Feb 20, 2017)

Bobby2 said:


> Very nice setup you have. What's the story on these CBN wheels you mentioned ? I've been using stones and they heat up the tooth no matter how slow you go



With any stone you must clean all the oil off the chain before you grind!
Same goes with cbn wheels.
I use straight gas or old chain saw gas

Oregon wheels I use lighter passes was the only trick I found 
Some rocked out chains might take 3-4 passes 
The fewer sparks is a good thing

CBN is more forgiving you can take a heavier pass with no blueing but it likes to roll the chrome plating up

Lighter passes is key 

I know a few with very nice grinders put they use them like chop saw and there killing RATS with it


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## Bobby2 (Feb 20, 2017)

hedge hog said:


> With any stone you must clean all the oil off the chain before you grind!
> Same goes with cbn wheels.
> I use straight gas or old chain saw gas
> 
> ...


Thanx for the info. Where can we get the best bang for our buck to buy them,and is this the best wheel we can get for our grinders?


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## Bobby2 (Feb 20, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Do you dress your wheels every loop or so?
> 
> Philbert


Looks like I have a lot to learn. No I don't dress up my wheels. Should I lightly use gas to cut the oil?


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## huskyboy (Feb 20, 2017)

I use my cheap harbor freight grinder to touch up chains that hit something, file rakers by hand and touch them up by hand regularly. I'll upgrade eventually but hey it works ok and my chains are sharp.


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## hedge hog (Feb 20, 2017)

Bobby2 said:


> Thanx for the info. Where can we get the best bang for our buck to buy them,and is this the best wheel we can get for our grinders?



Diamond wheel is the brand I use 
But there are cheaper one out there


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## Philbert (Feb 20, 2017)

Bobby2 said:


> Looks like I have a lot to learn. No I don't dress up my wheels.


Just like a sharp chain makes all the difference in cutting wood, a 'sharp' wheel makes a big difference sharpening chain. 

Many guys only dress wheels for shape/profile. Lightly dressing every loop or so exposes fresh aggregate, keeping cutting smooth and efficient. 

Philbert


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## Khntr85 (Feb 21, 2017)

tylerbeach3 said:


> Ive found out that that "learning curve" is for real. A caliper has helped me. I finally am cutting straight lol. Does anyone have to readjust the left hand cutter length after doing the right hand? Seemed wierd but i needed an almost half turn to set the teeth equal.


Well I dont know if you noticed, but you can "center" the vice....flip threw the manual, and read over the vise centering part..... once it's correct you won't have to "adjust" for each side...


Also here is a tip, put a brand new chain on the grinder(make sure the cutters are the same size, sometimes factory chains ain't the greatest!!), and then go threw the steps to center your vise, it should help a lot....


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## Khntr85 (Feb 21, 2017)

Bobby2 said:


> Looks like I have a lot to learn. No I don't dress up my wheels. Should I lightly use gas to cut the oil?


Yes, as @Philbert said, you have to keep the wheel clean..... if it has the black ring of death, it will burn the cutter quickly.....

There should have been a dressing stone that came with your grinder.....also you don't "profile" your wheel it would definitely cause it to cut funny....

It is a little overwhelming with all the different angles, depths, and profiling you have to do.... however, if you just keep plugging away you will be turning out good chains, and quickly too....

There are a lot of threads on this site and others about setting up and using grinders.....

And lastly, @Philbert and a lot of other guys on here are VERY knowledgeable about chains and grinders....All of us beginners are lucky to get the little tips that can really help a guy get set-up correctly!!!!!


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## Khntr85 (Feb 21, 2017)

Bobby2 said:


> Very nice setup you have. What's the story on these CBN wheels you mentioned ? I've been using stones and they heat up the tooth no matter how slow you go


Yes sir, I bought a 3/16 wheel first to do 3/8s chain.... I liked it so much that I bought another one for the smaller chains; .325 and like-pro....

I mean I looked at it as an "investment", I rebuild and sell saws, and get some horrible looking chains.....I also have slowly started to start grinding chains for people(not making money at that just yet).... I heat my home with strictly wood, so even if I only grind my chains over the years, the wheels will pay for themselves....

I should add that I still do use and like the stone wheels.... I use a stone wheel for rakers, and I even still use the stone wheels for cutters.....you could use the stone wheels til you get the hang of it, then get CBN wheel if you want it!!!


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## Bobby2 (Feb 21, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Yes sir, I bought a 3/16 wheel first to do 3/8s chain.... I liked it so much that I bought another one for the smaller chains; .325 and like-pro....
> 
> I mean I looked at it as an "investment", I rebuild and sell saws, and get some horrible looking chains.....I also have slowly started to start grinding chains for people(not making money at that just yet).... I heat my home with strictly wood, so even if I only grind my chains over the years, the wheels will pay for themselves....
> 
> I should add that I still do use and like the stone wheels.... I use a stone wheel for rakers, and I even still use the stone wheels for cutters.....you could use the stone wheels til you get the hang of it, then get CBN wheel if you want it!!!





Khntr85 said:


> Yes sir, I bought a 3/16 wheel first to do 3/8s chain.... I liked it so much that I bought another one for the smaller chains; .325 and like-pro....
> 
> I mean I looked at it as an "investment", I rebuild and sell saws, and get some horrible looking chains.....I also have slowly started to start grinding chains for people(not making money at that just yet).... I heat my home with strictly wood, so even if I only grind my chains over the years, the wheels will pay for themselves....
> 
> I should add that I still do use and like the stone wheels.... I use a stone wheel for rakers, and I even still use the stone wheels for cutters.....you could use the stone wheels til you get the hang of it, then get CBN wheel if you want it!!!


It sure is nice to see everyone is so helpful . I as well have the three popular size stone wheels. I use the 1/4" wheel to cut my rakers.I would like to find out where to get these CBN wheels. Of course I'd like to find the best bang for our buck place to buy them.


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## Philbert (Feb 21, 2017)

Bobby2 said:


> I would like to find out where to get these CBN wheels.


http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...-CBN-5-3-4-Chainsaw-Chain-Grinding-Wheels.axd

Philbert


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## backhoelover (Feb 21, 2017)

What did I tell you guys about buying a nice tool and not ordering me one


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## Khntr85 (Feb 21, 2017)

Bobby2 said:


> It sure is nice to see everyone is so helpful . I as well have the three popular size stone wheels. I use the 1/4" wheel to cut my rakers.I would like to find out where to get these CBN wheels. Of course I'd like to find the best bang for our buck place to buy them.


Also are you using the tap-tap-tap method when you grind....you don't want to take off a bunch of material at once, regardless of the wheel you are using....its better to make 2-3 passes on a bad chain rather than take off all the bad material at once...


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## Bobby2 (Feb 21, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Also are you using the tap-tap-tap method when you grind....you don't want to take off a bunch of material at once, regardless of the wheel you are using....its better to make 2-3 passes on a bad chain rather than take off all the bad material at once...


I've doing the slow approach(tap tap tap)hoping not to burn the tooth


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## Khntr85 (Feb 21, 2017)

Bobby2 said:


> I've doing the slow approach(tap tap tap)hoping not to burn the tooth


Good deal, I think once you start dressing the stone tobget fresh abrasive it will really help!!!


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## hedge hog (Feb 21, 2017)

If your stone is soaked with chain oil it's game over unless you have a sonic cleaner 


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## Bobby2 (Feb 22, 2017)

hedge hog said:


> If your stone is soaked with chain oil it's game over unless you have a sonic cleaner
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll try brake parts cleaner


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## hedge hog (Feb 22, 2017)

Starting fluid might work better but have never tried it
I know it cuts grease and oil better than brake cleaners 


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## Johnnybar (Feb 22, 2017)

I went with a 410-120 copy for $79 delivered.


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## Philbert (Feb 22, 2017)

hedge hog said:


> If your stone is soaked with chain oil it's game over unless you have a sonic cleaner





Bobby2 said:


> I'll try brake parts cleaner





hedge hog said:


> Starting fluid might work better but have never tried it
> I know it cuts grease and oil better than brake cleaners



Lots of threads on cleaning chains. Don't need to use nasty or flammable chemicals. Any parts cleaner (solvent or water based) will work. I use 'SuperClean' - water based cleaner with sodium hydroxide. More info in this thread:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philbert-meets-the-stihl-rs3.202969/

Philbert


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## Johnnybar (Feb 22, 2017)

hedge hog said:


> Starting fluid might work better but have never tried it
> I know it cuts grease and oil better than brake cleaners Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Starting fluid is ether and often has a top end lubricant added so be cautious about that aspect. I find that ether(starting fluid) evaporates so quickly that it leaves any dissolved oil behind unless you use a bunch and that better be done outdoors as the vapors are explosive...not just flammable but explosive meaning they burn violently. Brake cleaner is a much better option I find.


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## tylerbeach3 (Feb 22, 2017)

Thank you all so much!! Just had a day removing a large black oak that fell on a walkway. Ran three chains that i sharpened on the grinder and they cut like new. Big chips, and stayed fast and sharp through the whole tree! Im still confused about centering though. I put a straight edge in the slot and adjusted it correctly but cant wrap my head around how that adjustment would change, ie the strait edge was in the center of the wheel, the center is the center no matter how much stone you have left...


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## Philbert (Feb 22, 2017)

tylerbeach3 said:


> Im still confused about centering though. I put a straight edge in the slot and adjusted it correctly . . .


 The right and left cutters hit the circumference of the grinding wheel at different places since they are offset slightly to each side. The best way is to place a brand new chain in the vice, and center the wheel so that it hits cutters on both sides equally. 

I still check, and make small adjustments on each loop. 

Philbert


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## Johnnybar (Feb 22, 2017)

Not all models allow wheel centering like the 520's ( my 410-120 does not). So be aware before jumping into the other side...set up to just kiss each side on chains in good shape. Readjusting the stop is so easy a caveman could do it...kinda miss those commercials. lol


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## hedge hog (Feb 22, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Lots of threads on cleaning chains. Don't need to use nasty or flammable chemicals. Any parts cleaner (solvent or water based) will work. I use 'SuperClean' - water based cleaner with sodium hydroxide. More info in this thread:


phil
we were talking about cleaning the oil that get into the grinding stones
but gasoline is the fastest I have found for cleaning oil off of chains then hitting with compressed air
I have tried PP ,simple green and super clean in a sonic cleaner and they work but not as fast


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## hedge hog (Feb 22, 2017)

Johnnybar said:


> Starting fluid is ether and often has a top end lubricant added so be cautious about that aspect. I find that ether(starting fluid) evaporates so quickly that it leaves any dissolved oil behind unless you use a bunch and that better be done outdoors as the vapors are explosive...not just flammable but explosive meaning they burn violently. Brake cleaner is a much better option I find.


yes it evaporates fast so flood it , and it's still cheaper per ounce than any other, but very flammable and will cause freezer burns when sprayed outdoors in cold weather,,,I know


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## Philbert (Feb 22, 2017)

hedge hog said:


> phil
> we were talking about cleaning the oil that get into the grinding stones . . .


Got it. I just dress any crud off.

Philbert


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## Khntr85 (Feb 23, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Lots of threads on cleaning chains. Don't need to use nasty or flammable chemicals. Any parts cleaner (solvent or water based) will work. I use 'SuperClean' - water based cleaner with sodium hydroxide. More info in this thread:
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philbert-meets-the-stihl-rs3.202969/
> 
> Philbert


That's funny philbert, I use super clean too.... I use it on the saws I rebuild and then sell, we all know how dirty a saw can get.........I started using it for many other things now too....fired up the grill last night and used the super clean seemed to cut grease/grime very well, I love the stuff!!!!!


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## Johnnybar (Feb 23, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> That's funny that's funny philbert, I use super clean to clean the plastics on my saws, and many other things now too....fired up the grill last night and these super clean seemed to cut grease/grime very well, I love the stuff!!!!!


It should clean most things very well...it is the main ingredient in oven cleaners like Easy-Off...eats right through crud that has been baked and charred on. Use eye protection as it can quickly cause permanent blindness through it's aggressive action on proteins in the cornea...think lutefisk fish prepared with sodium hydroxide. Remove all traces of it from any aluminum or magnesium parts it might get on as it will aggressively attack those metals too. 2 Al + 2 NaOH + 6 H2O → 2 NaAl(OH)4 + 3 H2 Sorry fellas, after 30 yrs in Chemistry and Microbiology before retiring, I can't suppress the "Safety Sally" urges.


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## Khntr85 (Feb 23, 2017)

Johnnybar said:


> It should clean most things very well...it is the main ingredient in oven cleaners like Easy-Off...eats right through crud that has been baked and charred on. Use eye protection as it can quickly cause permanent blindness through it's aggressive action on proteins in the cornea...think lutefisk fish prepared with sodium hydroxide. Remove all traces of it from any aluminum or magnesium parts it might get on as it will aggressively attack those metals too. 2 Al + 2 NaOH + 6 H2O → 2 NaAl(OH)4 + 3 H2 Sorry fellas, after 30 yrs in Chemistry and Microbiology before retiring, I can't suppress the "Safety Sally" urges.


Wow, thanks a lot for that info!!!!

I always wear rubber gloves when working on saws, so I try to never get it on my skin....i know it wouldn't be good to get in your eyes, but blindness, don't get any more serious than that!!!!

I always make sure to wipe the saws off with water after cleaning them with the super clean.....

Does it eat into the magnesium and aluminum???


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## ChoppyChoppy (Feb 23, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Lots of threads on cleaning chains. Don't need to use nasty or flammable chemicals. Any parts cleaner (solvent or water based) will work. I use 'SuperClean' - water based cleaner with sodium hydroxide. More info in this thread:
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philbert-meets-the-stihl-rs3.202969/
> 
> Philbert



Unless the chain is really nasty I don't clean them. A normal residue of bar oil hasn't affected my grinder. I don't usually sharpen a ton of customer chains though, maybe a dozen or two a week at most.

Had a guy drop off ~2 dozen chains last year in a coffee can of some used waste oil that was nearly pavement sealer. Had I been in the shop I wouldn't have taken them. Even a 2 day soak in diesel still required me to spend a good hr with a brush scrubbing them. 
The oil was so thick I could turn the can upside down without making a mess!


He whined when I charged him $25 to clean that crap... I said ok... I'll charge you actual labor... so it's $90 now.... he paid the $25.


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## Johnnybar (Feb 23, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Wow, thanks a lot for that info!!!!
> 
> I always wear rubber gloves when working on saws, so I try to never get it on my skin....i know it wouldn't be good to get in your eyes, but blindness, don't get any more serious than that!!!!
> 
> ...


Aggressively


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## ChoppyChoppy (Feb 23, 2017)

Johnnybar said:


> Aggressively



Yup. Had a buddy spray his nearly brand new aluminum wheels with Super Clean to clean them.
It ate the finish bad! I think he ended up painting the wheels as they were ruined.


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## Johnnybar (Feb 23, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Yup. Had a buddy spray his nearly brand new aluminum wheels with Super Clean to clean them.
> It ate the finish bad! I think he ended up painting the wheels as they were ruined.


Bet it happened quick too....a pitted powdery aluminum hydroxide finish on nice alloy wheels would definitely be a bummer.


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## Khntr85 (Feb 23, 2017)

tylerbeach3 said:


> Thank you all so much!! Just had a day removing a large black oak that fell on a walkway. Ran three chains that i sharpened on the grinder and they cut like new. Big chips, and stayed fast and sharp through the whole tree! Im still confused about centering though. I put a straight edge in the slot and adjusted it correctly but cant wrap my head around how that adjustment would change, ie the strait edge was in the center of the wheel, the center is the center no matter how much stone you have left...


That's great that the chains cut good for you, and they will only get better.....it's nice to know you can sit down and touch up 4-6 chains in a fairly quick time with the grinder.....don't get me wrong I still sometimes touch up a chain with a hand file, but I honestly use the grinder for 95% of my sharpening....I love just touching up the chains with the CBN wheel!!!!


So what angles are you using....I keep the head-tilt angle at 55 for all chains, but I change the top plate angle according to the chain brand(Stihl or Oregon)....I also have been using the "tilt" feature on the Oregon chisel chains, and although I don't know if helps or not, the Oregon chisel chains I grind cut extremely well!!!!

Do like philbert said and put a new chain on your vise, then try to adjust it to were the wheel will contact the chain on both the left and right hand cutters....


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## Khntr85 (Feb 23, 2017)

Johnnybar said:


> I went with a 410-120 copy for $79 delivered.


Hey how are you liking your grinder, and how long have you had it?????


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## Philbert (Feb 23, 2017)

Johnnybar said:


> It should clean most things very well...it is the main ingredient in oven cleaners like Easy-Off...


Yes, sodium hydroxide (a.k.a. 'lye', or NaOH) is used in oven cleaner, drain cleaner, and for a wide variety of other uses.

As with all chemicals, use with care; read the labels; understand the hazards; wear the personal protective equipment (PPE).

All this also applies to the gasoline, starter fluid, brake cleaner, etc. mentioned earlier.

Philbert


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## Johnnybar (Feb 23, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Hey how are you liking your grinder, and how long have you had it?????


Tracking says it's due in today so I'll let you know. So hand filing till UPS shows up but a 42" milling chain, that is also due in today, sounds like a lot of filing so the 410 copy got my attention when I found them for $79 delivered.


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## Philbert (Feb 23, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Does it eat into the magnesium and aluminum???



If you soak aluminum in concentrated sodium hydroxide, it will be 'attacked'. If you are cleaning it with a diluted solution, then rinse thoroughly, it may only darken the aluminum slightly.

There are other 'purple' cleaners, and citrus based cleaners, which you might also want to take a look at for certain uses. I try to stay away from petroleum solvents since I work in my basement, and want to avoid vapors and flammability.

Philbert


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## Johnnybar (Feb 23, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Hey how are you liking your grinder, and how long have you had it?????


Just unboxed it, bolted the arm to the base and mounted the 1/8 wheel. Nicely done casting on base and arm, beefy chain rails and nice clamping cam that will hold the 3 central drive links snug for accurate grinds. So far so good!





casting on the


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## tylerbeach3 (Feb 23, 2017)

Hope you enjoy that. As a newbie to sharpening with a grinder id say; dont fall in love with 1000th of a millimeter... if your caliper says the teeth are same size and the angles all stay the same your saw will cut well. I personally have a lot to do in a day and cant spend a whole bunch of time grinding, i need a sharp chain and i need to go use it. Sure is fun though!


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## Johnnybar (Feb 23, 2017)

tylerbeach3 said:


> Hope you enjoy that. As a newbie to sharpening with a grinder id say; dont fall in love with 1000th of a millimeter... if your caliper says the teeth are same size and the angles all stay the same your saw will cut well. I personally have a lot to do in a day and cant spend a whole bunch of time grinding, i need a sharp chain and i need to go use it. Sure is fun though!


I guess if you single out chain grinders, then yes. But, if one includes the 1000's of regrinds on HSS and carbide tooling for the lathe and mill out in the metal shop or the 100's of times wood chisels, planer blades, and thickness planers have been reground to the .001" then maybe I did fall in love with those wee bits of accuracy. Been at this kinda stuff many moons...enough to know that if you're not racing, you don't need nitro in the tank...lol. A grinder to me is simply a much quicker way to re-profile or an easy way to recover a rocked or fenced chain. Anything else around these parts is file work .


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## tylerbeach3 (Feb 24, 2017)

I agree. I just lost myself in the tool for half a day and probably wasted a little chain trying to get it perfect with a magnifying glass and caliper, I guess i geeked out a little then saw the big picture: work to be done. Lol. and yes some more precise tools need that kinda love! Any advice on sharpening my 2man crosscut? Im afrain to touch it, it cuts ok now and dont want to ruin it. I havent found anyone in my area (mid northern California) yet that does that. Maybe ill look up north( mendo or humbolt


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## Johnnybar (Feb 24, 2017)

tylerbeach3 said:


> I agree. I just lost myself in the tool for half a day and probably wasted a little chain trying to get it perfect with a magnifying glass and caliper, I guess i geeked out a little then saw the big picture: work to be done. Lol. and yes some more precise tools need that kinda love! Any advice on sharpening my 2man crosscut? Im afrain to touch it, it cuts ok now and dont want to ruin it. I havent found anyone in my area (mid northern California) yet that does that. Maybe ill look up north( mendo or humbolt


There are some good guides out there...do lots of homework before trying it on a keepsake saw. Maybe find an ol' junker to learn on. Use Google search for (sharpening two man crosscut saw) and select (videos) filter. Here is a pretty decent video:


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## Khntr85 (Feb 24, 2017)

I will tell ya @Johnnybar afyer you do a few chains in that grinder, you maybe surprised by how well it can sharpen a chain.......I do know the first chain I ground I did not grind deep enough into the tooth....now there is obviously a fine line between "to-deep" and "to-shallow"....

It seems you have been doing this kind of thing for a long time, so undoubtedly you will get the hang of it fast.....

Oh and wow I but it gets old hand filing a 42" chain real quickly LOl!!!!


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## Johnnybar (Feb 24, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> I will tell ya @Johnnybar afyer you do a few chains in that grinder, you maybe surprised by how well it can sharpen a chain.......I do know the first chain I ground I did not grind deep enough into the tooth....now there is obviously a fine line between "to-deep" and "to-shallow"....
> 
> It seems you have been doing this kind of thing for a long time, so undoubtedly you will get the hang of it fast.....
> 
> Oh and wow I but it gets old hand filing a 42" chain real quickly LOl!!!!


It may become a full skip really quick!


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## Johnnybar (Feb 24, 2017)

Johnnybar said:


> It may become a full skip really quick!


or double skip!


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## Khntr85 (Feb 24, 2017)

Johnnybar said:


> or double skip!


LOL, yep that's a lot of cutters in that chain!!!


Yes I have always hand filed, and still like to do it.....but since I have got the hang of grinding and my chains have been cutting great, I usually use the grinder.... 

I filed a 16" lo pro chain on a MS180c I sold the other day.....you can hand file those small chains very quickly.....it was a lot faster to just touch the chain up by hand rather that's taking it off to grind....


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## Philbert (Feb 24, 2017)

tylerbeach3 said:


> Any advice on sharpening my 2man crosscut?


http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/crosscut-saw-manuals-references.210332/

Philbert


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## jmatteau (Feb 24, 2017)

Oregon 620-120, I love it. Fast, simple and extremely accurate on both sides. I was using the Chicago electric for rakers, but recently started using the 404 wheel on the Oregon, much easier!


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## Khntr85 (Feb 24, 2017)

jmatteau said:


> Oregon 620-120, I love it. Fast, simple and extremely accurate on both sides. I was using the Chicago electric for rakers, but recently started using the 404 wheel on the Oregon, much easier!View attachment 560265
> View attachment 560266
> View attachment 560267


Yep they are great... mine is the 520 though....

How long have you had yours.....do you run full chisel chain or semi-chisel.....also what angles are you using????


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## jmatteau (Feb 24, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Yep they are great... mine is the 520 though....
> 
> How long have you had yours.....do you run full chisel chain or semi-chisel.....also what angles are you using????



I run semi chisel and have done about 40 chains for "customers" so far. All of them have been semi chisel as well. I have had it a month now and have done all 30,60, 0 on the angles. Everybody cuts hardwood around here and I don't want them complaining their chains dull quick. Have had all positive feedback with those angles and mine cut fine as well. At some point when I have a good load of tree length on site I will play with the angles more on my chains, but right now cutting off site and don't have the time to play around.


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## Khntr85 (Feb 24, 2017)

jmatteau said:


> I run semi chisel and have done about 40 chains for "customers" so far. All of them have been semi chisel as well. I have had it a month now and have done all 30,60, 0 on the angles. Everybody cuts hardwood around here and I don't want them complaining their chains dull quick. Have had all positive feedback with those angles and mine cut fine as well. At some point when I have a good load of tree length on site I will play with the angles more on my chains, but right now cutting off site and don't have the time to play around.


Well said, I completely understand!!!!!

I have put mine at 55 head tilt, and I run 30 degree on Stihl chain....I have also just left the settings for now,


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## hedge hog (Feb 25, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> I have put mine at 55 head tilt, and I run 30 degree on Stihl chain....I have also just left the settings for now,


I run this for guys that file in the field and myself for a faster touch up than grinding at 60/30
as you can imagine I cut mostly hedge


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## Johnnybar (Feb 25, 2017)

Just ran about 22' of .325 chisel through my new Chinoregon 410-120 for a test run and it did great. No burrs that I've seen many complain about. They must be making aggressive grinds...I just kissed the top plate enough to get a fresh edge and the chain was in decent shape, just needing a touchup.


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## Khntr85 (Feb 26, 2017)

hedge hog said:


> I run this for guys that file in the field and myself for a faster touch up than grinding at 60/30
> as you can imagine I cut mostly hedge


When I first started grinding, I put a brand new chain on the vise.....to me the 55 degree angle matches up to the new chains angles better.....

Some brand new chain seems to have even a steeper top plate face angle than 55 degrees....this is another reason why I think people say they can never get a chain to cut like new...


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## Khntr85 (Feb 26, 2017)

Johnnybar said:


> Just ran about 22' of .325 chisel through my new Chinoregon 410-120 for a test run and it did great. No burrs that I've seen many complain about. They must be making aggressive grinds...I just kissed the top plate enough to get a fresh edge and the chain was in decent shape, just needing a touchup.


Yes when a person grinds a lot off of the cutter it does have more of a burr.....if a person gets a little burr, it will fall off as soon as the chain hits wood....


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## Philbert (Feb 26, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> When I first started grinding, I put a brand new chain on the vise.....to me the 55 degree angle matches up to the new chains angles better.....


 I learned that '30/60/0' was the 'default' setting for most chains. In recent years Oregon has recommended 55 degrees. 

There might be some differences between cutters on different brands of chain as well. 

Some differences might show up in a laboratory setting, but it as noticeable in the field. So unless someone is very specific, just pick something and run with it. 

Philbert


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## Khntr85 (Feb 26, 2017)

Yes, a guy just has to find his own "recipe"....

I sure can see why they started recommending 55.....if anyone actually looks at the top plate face angle, it's very easy to tell that it is steeper than 60 degrees.....as a matter of fact so is stihls chain.....

I have learned to grind a little deeper into the cutter also, works for me anyway....there is a fine line of to deep or to shallow!!!!

Does any one have a picture of the machine Oregon and Stihl use to profile their chain.....I would like to see their "set-up"....

Here is a vanguard chain I just got back to working order tonight....used the CBN wheel...


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## JTM (Feb 26, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Yes, a guy just has to find his own "recipe"....
> 
> I sure can see why they started recommending 55.....if anyone actually looks at the top plate face angle, it's very easy to tell that it is steeper than 60 degrees.....as a matter of fact so is stihls chain.....
> 
> ...


What's the deal with that raker/depth gauge? I've not seen that before.


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## Johnnybar (Feb 26, 2017)

JTM said:


> What's the deal with that raker/depth gauge? I've not seen that before.


Are you referring to the L shape the raker has?


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## JTM (Feb 26, 2017)

Johnnybar said:


> Are you referring to the L shape the raker has?


I guess, I've never seen that shape before just the shark fin types. How do those perform?


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## Khntr85 (Feb 26, 2017)

JTM said:


> What's the deal with that raker/depth gauge? I've not seen that before.


Lol, this is oregons van guard chain....it has the strangest raker you have ever seen.....I got 3-loops of 3/8 vanguard in a batch of saws I bought a while ago....they have been hanging in garage for awhile....well I seen them while I was grinding one day, so I said hell with it, I am goin to make these chains cut good.....sure enough they gut GREAT....I had to take ALOT off of the rakers to get them to cut....

The cutters themselves are regularl full-chisel cutters....


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## hedge hog (Feb 26, 2017)

I tried something different on a rocked out chain tonight 
It looked to be a 3-4 pass with a light touch up pass so in short a lot of work

I set the top plate angle to 20 degrees and took all the damaged corner off this chisel chain in one pass then did a pass at 30 degrees to get it back to standards 
Worked flipping great
Sorry no pictures this time because I didn't think it would work 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Khntr85 (Feb 27, 2017)

hedge hog said:


> I tried something different on a rocked out chain tonight
> It looked to be a 3-4 pass with a light touch up pass so in short a lot of work
> 
> I set the top plate angle to 20 degrees and took all the damaged corner off this chisel chain in one pass then did a pass at 30 degrees to get it back to standards
> ...


Well now this is nice to hear!!!!!

Glad to hear you tried something different.....also seems like it works......I will have to give it a try on a bad chain sometime...


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## hedge hog (Feb 27, 2017)

Khntr85 said:


> Well now this is nice to hear!!!!!
> 
> Glad to hear you tried something different.....also seems like it works......I will have to give it a try on a bad chain sometime...



I haven't got my cbn wheel for .325 so when I was set up at 20 degrees I use a .404 wheel instead ( have two for rakers) of wearing on my .325 wheel

But again it really work great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Khntr85 (Feb 27, 2017)

Nice, I still use the stone wheels....like you I use them a lot of time on a really bad chain, saving wear on the CBN wheel......if they do as many chains as they say I probably don't need to worry about wearing them out, but I do sometimes....nothing lasts forever!!!!!!


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## Thomas Venditto (Jan 15, 2019)

I wanted to wake this thread for some up-to-date info. I'm a homeowner guy with a few saws and I want to get into grinding. I primarily run Oregon LGX chains on my workhorse saws. Price is a consideration, but I'm not overly concerned because I'll likely have the unit for the rest of my life. Additionally, I enjoy working with good quality tools. I plan to get the diamond wheel from the get-go. I'm considering going to carbide chains in the future as well.

Amazon has the Oregon 520 for $266. I thought that was surprisingly cheap.
Bailey's has the Tecomec and MAXX units for the high $300s. 

What's the latest info? Is the Oregon still a go-to model? Still made in Italy?
Is there any reason for me to fork over the extra $100?

Thanks in Advance,
TomJV


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## Philbert (Jan 15, 2019)

Tecomec makes (most of) the Oregon grinders. Oregon versions sometimes have additional features, such as grinding wheel compensation, and Oregon support. On the 520-120 Oregon introduced a new chain clamping vise that applies pressure from both sides; I believe that the 'comparable' Jolly Star grinder still uses the self-centering vise that was used on the Oregon 511AX - this worked fine for most individual users, but some higher volume shops wore these out (search for 'Oregon 511AX' for details).

The MAXX grinder has automatic chain clamping (like the hydraulic Oregon and Tecomec grinders) and has additional head angle adjustment, allowing both R and L cutters to be ground from the outside in - something that is important to some guys. The MAXX grinder has received modest reviews here on A.S. over the years - I have never tried it personally.

If money is not a factor, I would choose the Oregon 520-120. On a budget, I would look at the Tecomec Compact grinder on eBay. All are better quality choices than the 'clones'.

Just my opinion.

Philbert


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## Ult1mat3X (Apr 4, 2019)

I've been at sharpening my saw chains for 30+ years. (how hard can it be really?) Never really got it right until I checked in with my friend a really good tree surgeon and my mountain guy chainsaw dealer a few years ago.
They both file by hand. PERIOD. And they both gave me about the same instructions.
Warbler gave a clear explanation how to do it.

My tips (many have already been stated)
I got MUCH better when I started using a vise to hold the saw by the bar.
Alternately you can remove the chain, adjust your vise to that it's just slightly wider than the chain drive teeth, drop the chain in. Clamp and file the teeth that are in the vise, loosen vise, move chain, clamp vise, repeat. This works well for a badly worn chain.

KEEP the box the chain came in so you know it's exact file size and filing angles. I'm always amazed how much tooth angles differ.
The simple file guide is very helpful to get the angles right. It doesn't have to be perfect!!! Close is really good enough. I've got a chain that's supposed to be cut at 25 degrees. My guide has a line at 30 degrees. I guesstimate 25 and it works fine.

You can use a chain until the teeth are nearly gone. Much to my surprise! I took a worn chain to my mountain guy to buy a new one and he kinda laughed, put it in his vise and sharpened it...by hand. It worked fine.
Some chains have an engraved diagonal line across all the teeth. When the tooth gets that short it's finished. Otherwise, keep sharpening it.

When a tooth cutting edges are completely bright, you're done with that tooth. Remember, there are two edges. The obviously curved vertical edge and the not so obviously curved horizontal (usually also angled) edge BENEATH the flat top of the tooth. On a really dull chain it can take some work to get that edge sharpened evenly. You need to hold the file so that both edges are cut at the same time and therefore same angles.
Some chains have engraved diagonal line across all the teeth. When the tooth gets that short it's finished.





Do NOT file both directions. Only cut in the forward direction. Press file not hard against the tooth so that it contacts both the vertical and horizontal cutting surfaces, run it forward as straight as you can, move file away from tooth and pull it back. Repeat. Learning this motion takes some effort. I find that laying the file guide flat on the angled top surface works well. Remember it doesn't have to be perfect. Press the file rearward against that surface so you cut both at the same time.
File all teeth to the same length. Approximately is good enough. This gets harder the more times the chain is sharpened.

I had a well used chain that I'd managed to get a large difference in tooth lengths. I measured with calipers and found the shortest tooth. Then sharpened all the rest to be close to the same length. That took a long time. Chain is great now.

Take a quick test cut. If the chain isn't cutting good chips do it all over again. Now, all the teeth are bright, so how do you keep your place? I mark the top of the first tooth I sharpen with magic marker.

Quickest way to dull a chain? Hit the dirt or rock for even 1/2 second. Another good way is to let it get loose on the bar.
Whenever I put a chain back on the bar I find have have to re-tension it after only a couple of minutes of cutting. Don't run it loose.
If I'm in the field and the chips are getting smaller, I'll do a quick sharpen right there. If the chain is in good shape it only takes 5 - 10 accurate file strokes to get the edges sharp again. You can test sharpness with your finger. With a little practice you can tell the diff between sharp and not.

One more thing.....If your chain jumps the bar (keep it tensioned properly stoopid...don't ask me how I know) the drive teeth are almost certain to get burred. You won't be able to push the chain along the bar by hand because it will hang up on the nose wheel or the drive sprocket. You usually can't see the burrs but you can feel them with your fingernail. It's slow work but with a sharp medium coarseness flat file you can carefully file the burrs off. Even 1 burr will stop your chain from running.
I always make sure than when properly tensioned I can push the chain all the way around with my fingers.

Files have a finite life. Replace often.

It's quicker and much cheaper to sharpen your own chain than to drive down to the chainsaw store to have them sharpen it or to buy a new one.

Poor eyesight may make properly sharpening your chain impossible.


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## Philbert (Apr 4, 2019)

Ult1mat3X said:


> I've been at sharpening my saw chains for 30+ years. (how hard can it be really?)



Welcome to A.S.!

Lots of good information on hand filing, but not what the question was in this thread. 

I use a grinder to clean up a lot of chains that were poorly hand filed by others: random angles (multiple), different right and left cutters, focus on the gullets, etc. As well as chains that were heavily damaged by rocks, debris, etc. It is also much faster when I have a bunch of chains (10-20 loops) to sharpen at a time.

Lots of ways to sharpen; everyone has to find something that works for them.

Philbert


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## blades (Apr 4, 2019)

55 degs. coming into the tooth would leave an awful thin top plate edge along with a really deep gullet, maybe that was just for the Pico size chains? Personally I run with the head set at 65 - 70 to minimize the depth of the gullet but still keep the sideplate behind the cutting edge. Also allows for a bit stronger cutting edge ( similar knife vs axe) . Also run 25 deg. across top plate. This leaves the corner point on a full chisel tooth a bit stronger than 30 or 35. Once that point goes south, chain will not cut worth squat any more. a long needle stye point will not last very long-
little project for a customer- close to 100 chains in that wash tub, some were sharpend before, so far ( some 80 chains worth ) not a single chain has had an adjustment to the depth gauges by any previous sharpening attempts.


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## Philbert (Apr 4, 2019)

Oregon recommends 55° for a lot of their chains, but that might be based on speed versus longevity. A big advantage of sharpening your own chains is that you get to choose!

http://en.oregonproducts.com/pdfs/GrindingAngles.pdf



blades said:


> little project for a customer- close to 100 chains in that wash tub, some were sharpend before, so far ( some 80 chains worth ) not a single chain has had an adjustment to the depth gauges by any previous sharpening attempts.


!!!


Philbert


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## hedge hog (Apr 4, 2019)

At any degree less than 60 when you file in the field with a top angle guide you’re file has less contact with gullet area and is more aggressive on the upper part of the tooth. 
I run at 58* just for that reason 
One to two strokes every tank of fuel and stays sharp til I hit rocks or barb wire


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## buckin~n~chunkin (Feb 5, 2021)

Ult1mat3X said:


> I've been at sharpening my saw chains for 30+ years. (how hard can it be really?) Never really got it right until I checked in with my friend a really good tree surgeon and my mountain guy chainsaw dealer a few years ago.
> They both file by hand. PERIOD. And they both gave me about the same instructions.
> Warbler gave a clear explanation how to do it.
> 
> ...


I square file my chains with a double beveled flat file.... can’t believe the difference... went from chips to mulch first pic is brand new Husqvarna chain out of the box.... 2 nd pic is same tooth after I square file it.... wicked sharp!!!!


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## djg james (Feb 10, 2021)

I'm guessing this grinder is a piece of junk?








Electric Chain Saw Sharpener


Amazing deals on this Electric Chain Saw Sharpener at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




www.harborfreight.com





P.S. Scratch that. It has to be a POS. Ebay has a couple that looks like an Oregon clones that might work better.


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## Philbert (Feb 10, 2021)

buckin~n~chunkin said:


> I square file my chains with a double beveled flat file.... can’t believe the difference... went from chips to mulch first pic is brand new Husqvarna chain out of the box.... 2 nd pic is same tooth after I square file it.... wicked sharp!!!!


Welcome to A.S.!

There are a number of threads on square filing / square grinding that you might like to participate in:






grinder setup for square ground chain


Just messing around trying to make a verry fast cutting chain for some hardwood. I want to try some square ground chain, am ordering some from Bailies today to try and I tried fileing some the other day on an old chain. It cut fast, but not straight. I set up my chain grinder last night to the...




www.arboristsite.com









Square grind ?


guys, been reading and trying to learn some square grinding. everything i've read so far says that's its favored in larger, softer, cleaner woods by larger cc's power heads. seems to make sense so far to me. but, why not in a smaller saw in the tops as well. if a small enough file were...




www.arboristsite.com









square chain grinder


I'm looking to start sharpening my chains with a square grinder what is the best for the money to buy I'm hoping to find good deal on a used one but if my luck is like any other time I will just end up buying one please help out a good cheaper square grinder would be ?




www.arboristsite.com









Grinding square-ground chain


I realize that it's risky to ask this, but which type of chain is easier to sharpen with a grinder: square-ground or round? I'm asking because we've put a lot of valuable time into hand-filing and the results, although good on occasion, just don't justify the time spent to get them. To save...




www.arboristsite.com









Square grind chain?


Who works magic on square grind chain? I've thought about trying a couple of loops, but I'm sure I'll need someone to machine grind my loops after I screw em' up. I understand the learning curve is a beeotch!




www.arboristsite.com





Philbert


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## Philbert (Feb 10, 2021)

djg james said:


> I'm guessing this grinder is a piece of junk?
> P.S. Scratch that. It has to be a POS. Ebay has a couple that looks like an Oregon clones that might work better.


Started a whole thread on '_those kinds_' of grinders. depends on your expectations, and your sense of humor:





HF Chain Grinder Thread


The purpose of this thread is to discuss pros and cons, tips and techniques, hacks and mods, for using the inexpensive ($30 - $60), plastic body, saw chain grinders, such as the type sold by Harbor Freight ('HF'), on eBay, etc. *** This thread is NOT to tell people to learn how to file, or to...




www.arboristsite.com





Philbert


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## djg james (Feb 10, 2021)

Sorry, I didn't see that. Thanks.


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## buckin~n~chunkin (Feb 11, 2021)

Philbert said:


> Started a whole thread on '_those kinds_' of grinders. depends on your expectations, and your sense of humor:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Go to: www.maverickmowersupply.com
they have Tecomec super jolly with hydraulic chain clamp for like 50-60 bucks cheaper then anyone.... $379 on eBay $316 on their sight


Philbert said:


> Welcome to A.S.!
> 
> There are a number of threads on square filing / square grinding that you might like to participate in:
> 
> ...


1st pic brand new chain out of box

2 nd pic is the same tooth after I HAND FILE with a double beveled flat file (goofy file)

I try to show the shape (<===>) kinda like that if you’re looking and bottom end of the file

it didn’t take long to learn just paid real close attention to you tube videos basically (Buckin Billy Ray) cause he repeats himself few times rather watching it 3-4 times.... but this is honestly the first time ever trying it.... it’s all about the 3 different angles and location of the angles on the file.... if you have patience it’s plausible I don’t have any patience so I guess it’s still plausible to most!!









And about 20% of my collection,,,


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## buckin~n~chunkin (Feb 11, 2021)

djg james said:


> I'm guessing this grinder is a piece of junk?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Www.maverickmowersupply.com (just search for chain grinder) they have the Tecomec super jolly w/ auto hydraulic chain clamp for $316 everywhere Else it’s $379
dang thing is quiet easy to use and practically assembled in box ready to grind chain and it’s made in Italy and it’s a professional grinder and puts on a nice edge I run grind at:
Down Angle @55-58 degrees 
Cutting angle @ 25-27 degrees 
Seems to keep the chain sharp for a longer period of time


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