# Taking A Close Look At A Meteor Top End KIt For The 372XP



## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

I've made it pretty clear that I'm not a fan of aftermarket top end kit so when I was contacted about doing a review on one I had my doubts to say the least. I really like Meteor Pistons so the fact that this kit was a Meteor brand caused me to take a look. 

The kit for the 372XP comes with a 371 single ring piston so we know someone is listening 
to us "chainsaw gearheads". 







The transfer inlet walls aren't as thin as an OEM cylinder but that's not a deal breaker.....and I'm looking hard to find one.












The exhaust outlet isn't as large or as slick as factory. Much of the issue here is casting flash that will clean up very easily.






The squish measures .035 without a base gasket, port timing measured ATDC......

EX 103°
TR 125°
IN 74°


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## greg409 (Oct 23, 2012)

Looks like the only machined part was the bore & the cyl bolt holes.

Not being critical,(cuz you have no intention of leaving it alone), just my observation.

luck,greg


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## fastLeo151 (Oct 23, 2012)

Hi Randy!!!!


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## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

I didn't get any decent pictures of the bore, but it's really nice with no "ring of death" at the top. It makes 150psi after being run in only a half of a tank. Here's a video of the saw after installing to kit with no mods at all.....we didn't even knock the flash out of the exhaust port. I was impressed with the way it pulled.

[video=youtube;rks2UddYoAI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rks2UddYoAI&feature=youtu.be[/video]


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## SkippyKtm (Oct 23, 2012)

I notice the Meteor cylinder has "Italy" cast into the cylinder. I assuming that means its cast and plated in Italy now, is that correct? Or is it still cast in China and plated in Italy...?


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## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

greg409 said:


> Looks like the only machined part was the bore & the cyl bolt holes.
> 
> Not being critical,(cuz you have no intention of leaving it alone), just my observation.
> 
> luck,greg



The only really rough part is the exhaust outlet. The transfers are pretty dang good......they match the case better than factory. 

My thoughts are this........I could feel good about selling these kits after setting the squish and finessing the ports. Not really a woods port but let's call it a "Blueprinted Meteor Kit". 

I won't sign off on any other kits mainly because of the piston and rings. These kits come with a great piston and Caber rings.....Meteor has even re-designed their cir-clips to a Stihl like style. 



fastLeo151 said:


> Hi Randy!!!!



Hi Andrew!!!!


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## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

SkippyKtm said:


> I notice the Meteor cylinder has "Italy" cast into the cylinder. I assuming that means its cast and plated in Italy now, is that correct? Or is it still cast in China and plated in Italy...?



I would bet the farm that they are still being cast in China......the ports in this example are beveled and shaped well though. Meteor is one company that listens to the feedback they get from their users and I feel that this kit shows that. 

I'll have this saw with me at the KY GTG.


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## Jacob J. (Oct 23, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I would bet the farm that they are still being cast in China......the ports in this example are beveled and shaped well though. Meteor is one company that listens to the feedback they get from their users and I feel that this kit shows that.
> 
> I'll have this saw with me at the KY GTG.



I talked to a guy from Centralia, Wa that claimed to be a Meteor rep. He "told" me that their engine parts are manufactured in Taiwan, with a Meteor engineer (Italian dude) on hand mic'ing every third or fourth cylinder to make sure they make the grade. 

I don't know how much of the story is hogwash but he did have some interesting looking "prototype" pistons in Meteor boxes.


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## komatsuvarna (Oct 23, 2012)

Looks like the lowers are matched to the gasket better than OEM. Also looks like the transfer runners are a fuzz bigger in the meteor. Pretty good numbers for stock jug IMO. Wouldn't take near as much grinding to get the uppers back where they need to be after some machine work either eh?

I like the sounds of them. I bet after ole' mastermind does his mooberazation magic they'd be a real runner!


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## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> Looks like the lowers are matched to the gasket better than OEM. Also looks like the transfer runners are a fuzz bigger in the meteor. Pretty good numbers for stock jug IMO. Wouldn't take near as much grinding to get the uppers back where they need to be after some machine work either eh?
> 
> I like the sounds of them. I bet after ole' mastermind does his mooberazation magic they'd be a real runner!



I like the way you talk. 

I'll be offering these for sale ported with cut squish and just blueprinted......the pricing is still being worked out for these and various other kits.


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## fastLeo151 (Oct 23, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I like the way you talk.
> 
> I'll be offering these for sale ported with cut squish and just blueprinted......the pricing is still being worked out for these and various other kits.



I think thats a great idea! What model jugs are you going to carry?


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## blsnelling (Oct 23, 2012)

The first Meteor cylinders that I saw looked aweful. I couldn't believe Meteor was going to market such a product. Sounds like maybe they've learned from their mistakes.


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## Jacob J. (Oct 23, 2012)

fastLeo151 said:


> I think thats a great idea! What model jugs are you going to carry?



Knowing Randy, double D's.


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## watsonr (Oct 23, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> Knowing Randy, double D's.



With enhancements!!


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## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

fastLeo151 said:


> I think thats a great idea! What model jugs are you going to carry?



These are the ones I was told were available now. If the quality isn't on par with this example I'm out though. We shall see. 

Husky 362/371/372/181/281/288/293
Stihl 034/036/360/046/460/650/066/660



Jacob J. said:


> Knowing Randy, double D's.


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## fastLeo151 (Oct 23, 2012)

watsonr said:


> With enhancements!!



Come on guys lets focus here, I wouldn't want to derail Randys thread......talking about pie or double d whatever's


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## rbmopar (Oct 23, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> These are the ones I was told were available now. If the quality isn't on par with this example I'm out though. We shall see.
> 
> Husky 362/371/372/181/281/288/293
> Stihl 034/036/360/046/460/650/066/660



What might a Husky 293 be?


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## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

rbmopar said:


> What might a Husky 293 be?



LOL.....good question. I just copied and pasted the info I was sent.


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## wigglesworth (Oct 23, 2012)

Mastermind said:


>



That WB looks NICE!!!!


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## Eccentric (Oct 23, 2012)

Hi Randy! 

Now we need them to produce inexpensive, quality Husky 1100/2100/2101 cylinders. Then there's the vintage North American saw models. I know.....dream on...

I like pie too.


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## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> That WB looks NICE!!!!



You always see the *little* things in muh pics. 



Eccentric said:


> Hi Randy!
> 
> Now we need them to produce inexpensive, quality Husky 1100/2100/2101 cylinders. Then there's the vintage North American saw models. I know.....dream on...
> 
> I like pie too.



Ummmmmmm pie. :msp_biggrin:


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## MechanicMatt (Oct 23, 2012)

Randy, will you be offering these kits as kits, or are we going to have to send you our saw for install?? Ive often thought of buying a kit, sending it off and then installing it myself. What kinda work are you going to be doing to them??? How Much Money????? and BTW NO rubarb, but pumpkin pie is where its at. oh and blueberry!!! No nasty ruhbarb puke-barb


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## rbmopar (Oct 23, 2012)

Hopefully they meant 298


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## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

MechanicMatt said:


> Randy, will you be offering these kits as kits, or are we going to have to send you our saw for install?? Ive often thought of buying a kit, sending it off and then installing it myself. What kinda work are you going to be doing to them??? How Much Money????? and BTW NO rubarb, but pumpkin pie is where its at. oh and blueberry!!! No nasty ruhbarb puke-barb



Ready to bolt on with the squish set at .020 and the ports cleaned up will be about 200.00. You install....gaskets and seals included. 



rbmopar said:


> Hopefully they meant 298



395XP was what they meant.....


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## MechanicMatt (Oct 24, 2012)

Is it stock bore or "big bore", well either way it would be big bore on my 362xp.


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## Jacob J. (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Ready to bolt on with the squish set at .020



Is that going to be feasible knowing the different deck heights that crankcases have?


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## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> Is that going to be feasible knowing the different deck heights that crankcases have?



Yeah .020 might be a bit tight on certain units. I've cut squish on many jugs for folks without any issues....but as you know....there's that one unit.......


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## Jacob J. (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah .020 might be a bit tight on certain units. I've cut squish on many jugs for folks without any issues....but as you know....there's that one unit.......



That could probably be dealt with by including say, three different thicknesses of base gaskets. That might muddy the water for some of the population though.


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## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm gonna sit this saw by the wood pile in KY and let everyone try to blow her up. Hopefully we will get some good feedback.


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## DSS (Oct 24, 2012)




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## Saw Dr. (Oct 24, 2012)

I hope that crank holds up!

Via Samsung Galaxy S3


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## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

DSS said:


>



Oh man........I'm hungry now. 



Saw Dr. said:


> I hope that crank holds up!
> 
> Via Samsung Galaxy S3



It seemed fine.


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## zogger (Oct 24, 2012)

Just wanted to say this is certainly a good idea you had.


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## SawTroll (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> .....
> 
> The kit for the 372XP comes with a 371 single ring piston so we know someone is listening
> to us "chainsaw gearheads".
> ...



Two or one ring on those always was about EPA version or not, not anout 371 or 372. 

There are lots of one ring 372s around, just not in the US. :msp_wink:


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## Jimmy in NC (Oct 24, 2012)

That's pretty exciting stuff there Randy. I'm looking to build a 372 and the thought of saving shipping both ways to a builder is nice. I know these won't be full on ported cylinders, just "Blue Printed" as you called it.. but they've got to be a bit better than stock or am I missing something?


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## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Two or one ring on those always was about EPA version or not, not anout 371 or 372.
> *
> There are lots of one ring 372s around, just not in the US.* :msp_wink:



Which means little to me sitting here in Tennessee.


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## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Jimmy in NC said:


> That's pretty exciting stuff there Randy. I'm looking to build a 372 and the thought of saving shipping both ways is nice.



I really like this idea too Jimmy......it would be a great way to update a 362 or 365 to 71cc and have a ported saw in the process......

The scary part for me is those guys that think a new top end will fix a saw with an air leak.


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## Roll Tide (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm gonna sit this saw by the wood pile in KY and let everyone try to blow her up. Hopefully we will get some good feedback.


Ill have my little orange screwdriver handy:msp_biggrin:


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## Jimmy in NC (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I really like this idea too Jimmy......it would be a great way to update a 362 or 365 to 71cc and have a ported saw in the process......
> 
> The scary part for me is those guys that think a new top end will fix a saw with an air leak.



That is a scary thing. I do a good bit of small equipment repair for contractors which includes concrete saws, two stroke tamps, etc. I am always amazed that they bring them back 6-7months later and complain that the carb is clogged again or smoked a cylinder, etc. I cringe when I send one back out, not that I question my work, its the untrained operator and conditions. As with top ends, Why did it fail? Age, seal, straight/low oil mix? Find that first, then install the new top end. 

Good luck and I hope it works out well for you!


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## SawTroll (Oct 24, 2012)

MechanicMatt said:


> Is it stock bore or "big bore", well either way it would be big bore on my 362xp.



Stock bore (50mm).


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## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Roll Tide said:


> Ill have my little orange screwdriver handy:msp_biggrin:


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## SawTroll (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Which means little to me sitting here in Tennessee.



:msp_biggrin: I see that, no problem - just want to keep the facts streight, as far from all readers of the thread will live in the US! :msp_wink:


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## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Jimmy in NC said:


> That is a scary thing. I do a good bit of small equipment repair for contractors which includes concrete saws, two stroke tamps, etc. I am always amazed that they bring them back 6-7months later and complain that the carb is clogged again or smoked a cylinder, etc. I cringe when I send one back out, not that I question my work, its the untrained operator and conditions. As with top ends, Why did it fail? Age, seal, straight/low oil mix? Find that first, then install the new top end.
> 
> Good luck and I hope it works out well for you!




Hopefully we can nip that in the bud with good communication.


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## Dennis Cahoon (Oct 24, 2012)

Hi Randy......I like homemade pie best!


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## thomas1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Hi Randy......I like homemade pie best!



Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 24, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Hi Randy......I like homemade pie best!



Ha1R ? belray oil right ? hahahahhahahahhahhahahhaha


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## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> Hi Randy......I like homemade pie best!



Hi Dennis!!!!!!

I like all pie........course I'm sorta chubby.


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## Tree Sling'r (Oct 24, 2012)

I am assuming they don't make the 75cc version, correct?


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## hillwilliam (Oct 24, 2012)

Is there any threat of Meteor producing a top end for a 385XP? I have one sitting on the bench right now needing a new jug and slug. This saw's owner can wait until next spring, if necessary.


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## fatboy1941 (Oct 24, 2012)

I see Meteor pistons for Husky 51/55s on ebay from Latvia and Greece, but no US source. Will you be supplying those here in the US? Is there a US source anyone knows of?


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## SawTroll (Oct 24, 2012)

hillwilliam said:


> Is there any threat of Meteor producing a top end for a 385XP? I have one sitting on the bench right now needing a new jug and slug. This saw's owner can wait until next spring, if necessary.



Looks like Meteor has left the 385/390 alone so far....


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## DSS (Oct 24, 2012)

fatboy1941 said:


> I see Meteor pistons for Husky 51/55s on ebay from Latvia and Greece, but no US source. Will you be supplying those here in the US? Is there a US source anyone knows of?




Replacement Piston for Husqvarna 51 (Non EPA Models)


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## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Tree Sling'r said:


> I am assuming they don't make the 75cc version, correct?



Correct.



fatboy1941 said:


> I see Meteor pistons for Husky 51/55s on ebay from Latvia and Greece, but no US source. Will you be supplying those here in the US? Is there a US source anyone knows of?



I have a source in Greece but they are non-epa pistons and will not fit the closed port saw.... 



DSS said:


> Replacement Piston for Husqvarna 51 (Non EPA Models)



See?


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## thomas1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I have a source in Grease but they are non-epa pistons and will not fit the closed port saw....


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## J L Miller (Oct 24, 2012)

*Meteor upper*

Put one on a good 288 lower and only got 1.5 tanks of 93 octane fuel mixed 40:1 with power punch before exaust side gauling.By the way it was also set 500rpm rich which is recomended. Since then I put on a NWP which is still running fine with about 50 hrs on it. Some one smarter than me help!


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## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

J L Miller said:


> Put one on a good 288 lower and only got 1.5 tanks of 93 octane fuel mixed 40:1 with power punch before exaust side gauling.By the way it was also set 500rpm rich which is recomended. Since then I put on a NWP which is still running fine with about 50 hrs on it. Some one smarter than me help!



What is Power Punch?


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## Eccentric (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> What is Power Punch?



It's a 'universal' 2-stroke mix oil that has been around forever.


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## Mastermind (Oct 25, 2012)

Eccentric said:


> It's a 'universal' 2-stroke mix oil that has been around forever.



OIC


Wiggs ended up with a failed Meteor kit as well if I remember right. It was an 046 unit that had a poor bevel on the exhaust port......killed the rings within a tank or two. 

I'll be going over any of these that I sell closely looking for defects. Believe that.


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## cowroy (Oct 25, 2012)

They need to make a 75cc 371/2xp kit.


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## Mastermind (Oct 25, 2012)

cowroy said:


> They need to make a 75cc 371/2xp kit.



I would rather see a 52mm kit.


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## SawTroll (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I would rather see a 52mm kit.



I don't really see that happening at this point, considering the new EPA rules? opcorn:


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I would rather see a 52mm kit.



the 372 sleeve is too thin to go 54 mm ? or ould that extra size create rod problems ?


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## J L Miller (Oct 25, 2012)

*Meteor*



Mastermind said:


> OIC
> 
> 
> Wiggs ended up with a failed Meteor kit as well if I remember right. It was an 046 unit that had a poor bevel on the exhaust port......killed the rings within a tank or two.
> ...



Thanks for the come back guys! Just took a look at a oem 288 cylinder and the failed meteor and saw no signifigant difference.


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## Mad Professor (Oct 25, 2012)

I'd knife edge, then blend and polish those transfer walls.


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## Mastermind (Oct 25, 2012)

Mad Professor said:


> I'd knife edge, then blend and polish those transfer walls.



I'll be leaving it completely stock until spring. It will be my main firewood saw this winter. I really want to test this top end.


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## Eccentric (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I would rather see a 52mm kit.



How about a 54mm 272XP kit?:msp_thumbup:


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'll be leaving it completely stock until spring. It will be my main firewood saw this winter. I really want to test this top end.



your running a husky all winter ? say it isnt so


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## Buffhunter (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'll be leaving it completely stock until spring. It will be my main firewood saw this winter. I really want to test this top end.



Wooooooo Hoooooo i knew after modding all these huskys you would come around.... its ok to step over from the dark side!!!!!


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## watsonr (Nov 7, 2012)

How did the saw run at the GTG? Any side by side races with an OEM saw? Now that its been ran some more, any improvement or comments?


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## Mastermind (Nov 7, 2012)

watsonr said:


> How did the saw run at the GTG? Any side by side races with an OEM saw? Now that its been ran some more, any improvement or comments?



We had so many distractions at the GTG that a stock saw wasn't a big draw. It was ran by several guys though and it ran flawlessly. I've been putting fuel through it and it's getting broken in. I have had zero issues, and no complaints. :msp_thumbup:


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## watsonr (Nov 7, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> We had so many distractions at the GTG that a stock saw wasn't a big draw. It was ran by several guys though and it ran flawlessly. I've been putting fuel through it and it's getting broken in. I have had zero issues, and no complaints. :msp_thumbup:



Thanks Randy... just what I thought!


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## SawTroll (Nov 7, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I would rather see a 52mm kit.



Isn't there a new EPA rule that would keep them from marketing a 52mm one in the US?

I guess a 51.4 should be possible though.....


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## Mastermind (Nov 7, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Isn't there a new EPA rule that would keep them from marketing a 52mm one in the US?
> 
> I guess a 51.4 should be possible though.....



I'm not sure what the EPA is up to Niko.


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## SawTroll (Nov 7, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm not sure what the EPA is up to Niko.



Basically banning BB kits for models introduced 1995 or later, I have been told - but I don't know how the rule actually say? :msp_confused:


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## MechanicMatt (Nov 7, 2012)

Troll, Im confused because I have a 52mm kit on my 362xp. Its a cheaper ebay special, but I was able to buy it and have it shipped to me. Are you saying the more reputible manufacturers will comply where as a ebay seller won't???


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## Agrarian (Nov 7, 2012)

Sure wish Meteor would come out with a top end for the Husky 262. I have zero faith in the current options.


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## Jacob J. (Nov 7, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Basically banning BB kits for models introduced 1995 or later, I have been told - but I don't know how the rule actually say? :msp_confused:





MechanicMatt said:


> Troll, Im confused because I have a 52mm kit on my 362xp. Its a cheaper ebay special, but I was able to buy it and have it shipped to me. Are you saying the more reputible manufacturers will comply where as a ebay seller won't???



The bigger guys like Bailey's definitely have the EPA looking over their shoulder. The small mom and pop e-bay sellers don't. EPA cannot regulate what is manufactured in China or Taiwan but they can regulate what some larger companies import from Asian countries. The bad news is that it's only going to get worse from here on out.


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## SawTroll (Nov 7, 2012)

MechanicMatt said:


> Troll, Im confused because I have a 52mm kit on my 362xp. Its a cheaper ebay special, but I was able to buy it and have it shipped to me. Are you saying the more reputible manufacturers will comply where as a ebay seller won't???



This is about a relatively new rule, and it is still possible to get them - but harder to advertise any new ones....

Also, most BB kits will have inferior performance compared to the OEM stuff, unless they are ported by someone that knows what he is doing (a different topic really).


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## parrisw (Nov 7, 2012)

Don't know how I missed this thread, been wondering about these kits. Looks good though.


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## old 040 (Nov 8, 2012)

any clue when you'll have these kits available randy?, i've got a 372 i'd like to freshen up


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## Mastermind (Nov 8, 2012)

old 040 said:


> any clue when you'll have these kits available randy?, i've got a 372 i'd like to freshen up



They are availible now. I don't sell them straight off the shelf though. In the blueprinted kit I remove the casting flash, set the squish, match the lowers, and clean up the exhaust before they go out the door. 

I can also set them up at any level you want, ported or with additional compression. 

PM me for pricing.


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## Mastermind (Dec 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I've made it pretty clear that I'm not a fan of aftermarket top end kit so when I was contacted about doing a review on one I had my doubts to say the least. I really like Meteor Pistons so the fact that this kit was a Meteor brand caused me to take a look.
> 
> The kit for the 372XP comes with a 371 single ring piston so we know someone is listening
> to us "chainsaw gearheads".
> ...



Here's an update on this saw. We ran a dozen or so tanks of fuel through it without a hiccup. 

I needed a bottom end to set up a few cylinders on so I tore it down.......I couldn't handle putting the top end on stock again so......

This saw is a test bed for these cylinders so lets see how it works ported. 

I cut .075 out of the squish area and .065 from the base. The timing numbers after porting are....


Compression: 187PSI
Squish: .024 
Ex: 96°
Transfers: 122° - 118° staggered
In: 82°

Pics......


























Video tomorrow.....if the rain moves out.


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## wigglesworth (Dec 4, 2012)




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## Mastermind (Dec 4, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


>



Do you see it???????? Do you.....really??????


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## blsnelling (Dec 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Here's an update on this saw. We ran a dozen or so tanks of fuel through it without a hiccup.
> 
> I needed a bottom end to set up a few cylinders on so I tore it down.......I couldn't handle putting the top end on stock again so......
> 
> ...



That jug looks real nice now that you've massaged it


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## Mastermind (Dec 4, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> That jug looks real nice now that you've massaged it



I used numbers that are a little more radical than I would normally use......cut more from the squish area too. If these kits are gonna be sold ported.....let's see how they respond to it.


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## Dennis Cahoon (Dec 5, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I used numbers that are a little more radical than I would normally use......cut more from the squish area too. If these kits are gonna be sold ported.....let's see how they respond to it.






tlandrum said:


> .....You dont always have to hog out the cylinder to make a hell of a good runner.....
> 
> 
> tlandrum said:
> ...


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 5, 2012)

Do you know if they are doing jugs for stihls ?


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## watsonr (Dec 5, 2012)

Stihl jugs currently available are the 034/036/360 in 48mm, 046/460, 650/066/660. I'm working on the 044/440 as well.


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## MCW (Dec 5, 2012)

SkippyKtm said:


> I notice the Meteor cylinder has "Italy" cast into the cylinder. I assuming that means its cast and plated in Italy now, is that correct? Or is it still cast in China and plated in Italy...?



Put it this way, I've seen exactly the same castings on jugs from imported Chinese knock off 365's. In saying that though they are some of the nicest cylinders I've seen, regardless of whether they really are Italian or not (see images below)...



Mastermind said:


> OIC
> 
> 
> Wiggs ended up with a failed Meteor kit as well if I remember right. It was an 046 unit that had a poor bevel on the exhaust port......killed the rings within a tank or two.
> ...



Not trying to hijack Randy but thought I'd just add a few things to your thread with the experiences I've had with some of the aftermarket kits I've imported. Consistent quality is the key. If the Meteor kits have been anywhere near Asia then you can never let your guard down (which I'm sure you won't )

Been there with other kits too. Checking every kit for defects is a wise move. After what I've seen importing my own directly I can't believe businesses can send out kits without checking each one - with a few exceptions the recall rate would be horrendous. Then again most buyers probably wouldn't know or care unless the saw actually stops. The AS crowd is a bit harder to please  Also good stuff on offering them with squish band mods etc. Poor compression and high squish are constant problems. The kits certainly have potential though and some of the kits I've sold are now in the Australian chainsaw racing ring and performing well. Also being cheaper than OEM you can then afford to play around a bit with porting etc to see what does and doesn't work.
The only kits that I currently have 100% confidence in are the MS660 BB and 372XP BB kits (52mm). They are beautifully finished and none of my current supplier's kits have had one single fault. Also remember to change the rings if in doubt as I've seen a 15psi increase in compression just swapping to Cabers. Luckily most of the kits I've had failures with have been on test saws or given to people to test if I haven't had that model saw.

This was a 52mm 372XP BB kit that Will Parris tested. Hooked a ring. I have also had two returns on MS460 BB kits with the same issue...






Same thing happened on one of my own test saws dammit...






(interestingly I replaced the piston, swapped to Cabers, didn't change anything else, and this top end is still running - supplied rings on aftermarket top ends are a BIG risk and very inconsistent).

I swapped suppliers after this and haven't had a problem since. The first lot of kits I got also had issues with the Nikasil plating coming off with only low hours.

Not surprising when you see how some of the bevelling was done out of the box. Blind Chinaman spec...






Dodgey bore...






This is one of the 65cc cylinders marked "B&B Italy" off of a Chinese 365 clone. Very nice quality...












SawTroll said:


> I don't really see that happening at this point, considering the new EPA rules?



Why are the 54mm kits on the hit list Niko?


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 5, 2012)

Transfers: 122° - 118° staggered


question for randy ,why the staggered #s on the transfers ? isnt stihl doing that staggered thing too ?


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## blsnelling (Dec 5, 2012)

MCW said:


> Checking every kit for defects is a wise move. After what I've seen importing my own directly I can't believe businesses can send out kits without checking each one - with a few exceptions the recall rate would be horrendous.



Right there is key, in my mind.


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## SawTroll (Dec 5, 2012)

MCW said:


> ....
> 
> Why are the 54mm kits on the hit list Niko?



*EPA.*

I understand any BB kit for saw models introduced 1995 or later ("coincidentially" includes the 371/372 and the 046/460) are on EPA's hit-list in the USA. When that market is gone, there may not be enough market left for those kits, at least not for introducing new ones?

I can not document this, so it is at best second-hand info so far, and may not be 100% accurate....


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## Mastermind (Dec 5, 2012)

Dennis Cahoon said:


> What's a man to believe from you Tennessee guys?......Hahahahahahahaha!



Well.........nothing really. 



trx250r180 said:


> Transfers: 122° - 118° staggered
> 
> 
> question for randy ,why the staggered #s on the transfers ? isnt stihl doing that staggered thing too ?



The thinking is it gives a broader torque curve......


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## A.E. Metal Werx (Dec 5, 2012)

To add to Randy's comment about the staggered ports, think about it like a 4 barrel carb or two stages of injectors. Instead of all the fuel/air at once its more progressive. Please correct me if I'm wrong randy, that's just the way I see/understand it.


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 5, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Well.........nothing really.
> 
> 
> 
> The thinking is it gives a broader torque curve......



so all this likeing of pie has rubbed off on your transfer ports ,pie shaped transfers are gonna be the new thing to come


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## MCW (Dec 5, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> *EPA.*
> 
> I understand any BB kit for saw models introduced 1995 or later ("coincidentially" includes the 371/372 and the 046/460) are on EPA's hit-list in the USA. When that market is gone, there may not be enough market left for those kits, at least not for introducing new ones?
> 
> I can not document this, so it is at best second-hand info so far, and may not be 100% accurate....



I'm aware it's the EPA NIko but why is a BB kit less environmentally friendly than a standard kit? That's the part I don't understand.
If so my thoughts would be that the major saw manufacturers have been feeding the EPA bullsh*t...


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## MCW (Dec 5, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Right there is key, in my mind.



Another key is having a good relationship with the the supplier. In fact in my case I believe a 3rd party supplier is the way to go. If you can convince them that THEY will lose money by supplying bad kits then *they* actually do some of the QC for you as they put pressure on the manufacturers to only supply good kits or they won't get paid.
When I started importing these kits I had a "not up to scratch" rate of about 25% with maybe 10% of these completely unuseable.
Now I'm back to about 5% with all kits being useable however poor squish and lower than ideal compression still seems to be a constant issue. Any of the poorer quality kits get sold at a discounted rate as long as there is nothing terminal.
I don't sell a heap of kits anymore and actually pulled them off of eBay due to tax reasons but do intend to crank that side of the business up again after changing accountants and finding out I can pump more out via the chainsaw side of things


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## wyk (Dec 5, 2012)

MCW said:


> I'm aware it's the EPA NIko but why is a BB kit less environmentally friendly than a standard kit? That's the part I don't understand.
> If so my thoughts would be that the major saw manufacturers have been feeding the EPA bullsh*t...



The EPA can regulate anything that has anything to do with emissions or pollutants. They can also regulate processes that can produce run-off or chemicals(like logging) etc. However, the EPA itself doesn't often go up against the aftermarket. During the Bush years the EPA was relatively toothless. We may be seeing a change here shortly. The EPA tends to pass legislation/laws and sit back. They don't often chase unless pushed for whatever reason.

Even so, since the aftermarket doesn't produce a full-fledged operating engine, it is sort of difficult to institute a test method for the emissions of such parts like they do for cats and scrubbers. Technically, even if the EPA outlawed installation of aftermarket parts on chainsaw, unless the feds or CARB made a new law, it still would be legal to manufacture the part - just not legal to install it.


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## blsnelling (Dec 5, 2012)

MCW said:


> Another key is having a good relationship with the the supplier. In fact in my case I believe a 3rd party supplier is the way to go. If you can convince them that THEY will lose money by supplying bad kits then *they* actually do some of the QC for you as they put pressure on the manufacturers to only supply good kits or they won't get paid.
> When I started importing these kits I had a "not up to scratch" rate of about 25% with maybe 10% of these completely unuseable.
> Now I'm back to about 5% with all kits being useable however poor squish and lower than ideal compression still seems to be a constant issue. Any of the poorer quality kits get sold at a discounted rate as long as there is nothing terminal.
> I don't sell a heap of kits anymore and actually pulled them off of eBay due to tax reasons but do intend to crank that side of the business up again after changing accountants and finding out I can pump more out via the chainsaw side of things



I like your business model. Going from 25% to 5% is a phenominal improvement


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## Mastermind (Dec 5, 2012)

Here's the saw with the Meteor top end untouched. It ain't no slouch is stock form.....

[video=youtube;rks2UddYoAI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rks2UddYoAI&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g&index=12[/video]


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## Mastermind (Dec 5, 2012)

And here it is after port work wearing a 24" noodling in red oak....... 

[video=youtube;JOKDTsact3U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOKDTsact3U[/video]


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## thomas1 (Dec 5, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> And here it is after port work wearing a 24" noodling in red oak.......
> 
> [video=youtube;JOKDTsact3U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOKDTsact3U[/video]



I thought all filmed testing was to be performed in rotten pine?


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## Mastermind (Dec 5, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> I thought all filmed testing was to be performed in rotten pine?



Really????

I didn't know those were the rules. Is that just for the saws with crummy top ends or in general?


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## A.E. Metal Werx (Dec 5, 2012)

Very impressive to say the least! Well done sir!


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## thomas1 (Dec 5, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Really????
> 
> I didn't know those were the rules. Is that just for the saws with crummy top ends or in general?



I guess the crummier the saw the crummier the wood? Apples to apples and stuff.


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## blsnelling (Dec 5, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> And here it is after port work wearing a 24" noodling in red oak.......
> 
> [video=youtube;JOKDTsact3U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOKDTsact3U[/video]



Looks great Randy. Your work is top notch


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## Mastermind (Dec 10, 2012)

Well I sold the top end off of this saw. I know right? 

The buyer has agreed to report how it performs after he installs it and how it's doing is a few months.

I told him that I wanted him to be completely honest. If it sucks, tell us all that it's a turd.


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## SawTroll (Dec 11, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> I thought all filmed testing was to be performed in rotten pine?



Some rather punky wood has been observed, but it isn't the norm.

The real issue is that it is totally impossible to establish and enforce any norm at all - wood just isn't "made" to any industry norm....


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## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Some rather punky wood has been observed, but it isn't the norm.
> 
> The real issue is that it is totally impossible to establish and enforce any norm at all - wood just isn't "made" to any industry norm....



I normally use painted up Styrofoam. It's always the same.


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## tbone75 (Dec 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I normally use painted up Styrofoam. It's always the same.



20,000 post Randy !


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## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

tbone75 said:


> 20,000 post Randy !



I need to get a freakin life huh?


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## watsonr (Dec 11, 2012)

Yup... 

and a new kit for that saw


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## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

watsonr said:


> Yup...
> 
> and a new kit for that saw



It's on the shelf. 

I want to try a few tricks with the next one. There a huge amount of potential here. Being able to afford to experiment is gonna be a game changer for me I think. :msp_sneaky:


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## young (Dec 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Well I sold the top end off of this saw. I know right?
> 
> The buyer has agreed to report how it performs after he installs it and how it's doing is a few months.
> 
> I told him that I wanted him to be completely honest. If it sucks, tell us all that it's a turd.



man i aint even got to install it to tell you its a *TURD.*


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## Rudolf73 (Dec 11, 2012)

A wise? man once told me that like cream, some turds float to the top... :monkey:












That wasn't directed at anyone - just something random that popped into my head.


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## MCW (Dec 11, 2012)

Rudolf73 said:


> A wise? man once told me that like cream, some turds float to the top... :monkey:



Some turds also have a lot less corn kernels than other turds...


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## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

young said:


> man i aint even got to install it to tell you its a *TURD.*



Or touch it, feel, hug, fondle, taste.........I better stop there.....I'm getting aroused. 

Speaking of Turds........when are you gonna come and get this nasty old MS461?


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## tbone75 (Dec 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I need to get a freakin life huh?



Yea.......me too! 25,000 post in less than 2 years !


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## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

tbone75 said:


> Yea.......me too! 25,000 post in less than 2 years !



I found this site when I was real sick........damn place just made me even sicker. :msp_sad:


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## tbone75 (Dec 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I found this site when I was real sick........damn place just made me even sicker. :msp_sad:



Yep , your a sick puppy ! :hmm3grin2orange:


I just have a lot of butt time cause of this beat up body. LOL


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## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

tbone75 said:


> Yep , your a sick puppy ! :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> I just have a lot of butt time cause of this beat up body. LOL



I'm a multi-tasker........I can drink coffee and type.


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## edisto (Dec 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Well I sold the top end off of this saw. I know right?



:msp_scared:


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## tbone75 (Dec 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm a multi-tasker........I can drink coffee and type.



No coffee , but I can drink Dew and type ! LOL

Even sitting here rebuilding a cab and type !  


:hmm3grin2orange:


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## parrisw (Dec 11, 2012)

Man I've been here longer then you all, and I ain't even close to 20k post's. You must eat, sleep, and live AS.


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## Jacob J. (Dec 11, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Man I've been here longer then you all, and I ain't even close to 20k post's. You must eat, sleep, and live AS.



You need to stop making yourself useful and start spending more time in your computer chair.


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## tbone75 (Dec 11, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> You need to stop making yourself useful and start spending more time in your computer chair.



Does help when your able to be useful. LOL


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## parrisw (Dec 11, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> You need to stop making yourself useful and start spending more time in your computer chair.



LOL, ya, that sounds good. Can you call my wife and kids and let them know?


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## tbone75 (Dec 11, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Man I've been here longer then you all, and I ain't even close to 20k post's. You must eat, sleep, and live AS.



Way to much arse time! LOL


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## Eccentric (Dec 11, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Man I've been here longer then you all, and I ain't even close to 20k post's. You must eat, sleep, and live AS.





Jacob J. said:


> You need to stop making yourself useful and start spending more time in your computer chair.



Jacob's right Will. But I'm even more of a slacker.......as I've been here as long as you and you're 3K 'ahead' of me. JJ's an even bigger slacker than me however, as he has almost six years on us and yet has roughly the same post count as you.


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## parrisw (Dec 11, 2012)

Eccentric said:


> Jacob's right Will. But I'm even more of a slacker.......as I've been here as long as you and you're 3K 'ahead' of me. JJ's an even bigger slacker than me however, as he has almost six years on us and yet has roughly the same post count as you.



Ya, what the heck is wrong with that guy.


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## Jacob J. (Dec 11, 2012)

parrisw said:


> LOL, ya, that sounds good. Can you call my wife and kids and let them know?



I'm not telling your wife anything. She'd knock my block off without a second thought.


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## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

Most of my posts are in the OT forum........stuff like this.....

"I have a potty mouth" DSS you widebodied bovine!!!!!!

:taped:


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## Rudolf73 (Dec 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Most of my posts are in the OT forum........stuff like this.....
> 
> "I have a potty mouth" DSS you widebodied bovine!!!!!!
> 
> :taped:



DSS can't help that he has 2 rumps for butt cheeks...


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## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

Rudolf73 said:


> DSS can't help that he has 2 rumps for butt cheeks...



He has the *nicest* teets though.......


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## tbone75 (Dec 11, 2012)

Kinda miss the ol HO thread.


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## Mastermind (Dec 11, 2012)

tbone75 said:


> Kinda miss the ol HO thread.



Yeah I went rep-less in protest.


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## Eccentric (Dec 12, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah I went rep-less in protest.



Repped!


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## Mastermind (Dec 12, 2012)

Eccentric said:


> Repped!


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## DSS (Dec 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Most of my posts are in the OT forum........stuff like this.....
> 
> "I have a potty mouth" DSS you widebodied bovine!!!!!!
> 
> :taped:



He really loves me, he's just shy.



Mastermind said:


> He has the *nicest* teets though.......



see....




####ing aftermarket hillbilly. What next


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## Mastermind (Dec 15, 2012)

DSS said:


> ####ing aftermarket hillbilly. What next



That ain't as strange as an igloo dwelling cow.......wit big ass sunglasses. :msp_wink:


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## DSS (Dec 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> That ain't as strange as an igloo dwelling cow.......wit big ass sunglasses. :msp_wink:



I have no agenda. "I have a potty mouth".


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## Mastermind (Dec 15, 2012)

DSS said:


> I have no agenda. "I have a potty mouth".



For the greater good and stuff?


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## DSS (Dec 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> For the greater good and stuff?



Stuff. Always stuff. And stuff


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## Cornykid (Feb 3, 2020)

@Mastermind stress you still offering these blueprinted kits?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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