# Just got into reloading



## ross_scott (Apr 26, 2009)

Due to the recent price hike on ammo, I have just started reloading for my .308 Mossberg ATR100. I fired off my first lot at the range yesterday and with it being my first time reloading it was rather nerve wrenching and all thoughts were going through my mind like will I blow up the rifle etc. After the first few rounds I got to relax and I was rather happy with the results I got.

Components
Remington cases
CCI large rifle primers
AR2208(Varget) min 42.0, max46.0gr
Hornady 165gr interlock projectiles

the powder loads I worked up were 42.5(used milsurp cases), 43.0, 43.5, 44.0, 44.5gr(I got extractor marks on the cases I fired at 44.5 and got some heavy recoil)

I will be testing my final brew (I hope) which will be the above components with a powder load of 43.8gr I already test fired two rounds of the new batch and it felt great.

I have posted a pic of the results of the load work ups. I would love to get my dirty hands on the .308 load data from the hornady manual but I will have to wait to buy that. OAL of each round was 71mm bullets were seated with only a small part of the crimp ring showing new batch have the bullet seated half way up the crimp ring and also I do not crimp my projectiles as these are hunting rounds only not target rounds


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## flashpuppy (Apr 26, 2009)

Stock up......


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## ross_scott (Apr 27, 2009)

flashpuppy said:


> Stock up......



I reload for hunting only I don't spend a heck of alot of time at the range unless I am sighting in my scope that's when I use a bit of ammo I am going back to the range tomorrow just to fine tune my scope on the reloads, all of the stores I have checked with have good amounts of primers, powder and projectiles on hand.


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## dingeryote (Apr 27, 2009)

ross_scott said:


> Due to the recent price hike on ammo, I have just started reloading for my .308 Mossberg ATR100. I fired off my first lot at the range yesterday and with it being my first time reloading it was rather nerve wrenching and all thoughts were going through my mind like will I blow up the rifle etc. After the first few rounds I got to relax and I was rather happy with the results I got.
> 
> Components
> Remington cases
> ...




Ross,

When using Military cases always reduce starting loads by 10%.
Mil. Brass is thicker which reduces internal case volume and pressures.

Have you figured out the freebore on the Mossy with the 165 intrlocks yet?

If you can, try a starting point of .010 off the lands and work back in .005 increments at the same charge weight while watching groups for the sweet spot. At some point, the groups will shrink, and then start to open again.
Keep records and you'll have a solid load for that rifle.
The 165 interlock is old school, but a dadgum good bullet if the rifle likes 'em.

I run 42gr of Varget (Watch the Lot to lot variations!!!) with the Sierra 165HPBT Game king, and have had wonderfull luck in a couple different .308s.
I run Federal Gold Medal and Lapua Brass Mostly, but have run a LOT of mil. Brass in the past. 

Keep an eye on the fired cases OAL. as Mil. Brass stretches a bit more than civvie brass.

Are you full length resizing or neck sizing only?

What kind of groups did you get out of the Mossy?

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## rob206 (Apr 27, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> Ross,
> 
> When using Military cases always reduce starting loads by 10%.
> Mil. Brass is thicker which reduces internal case volume and pressures.
> ...




Is mil brass available in the US? I read a thread on another site, and they had a link that suggested the gov't was going to start destroying used mil brass. Don't know when this was supposed to take effect, and doesn't hamper me personally as I don't shoot .308. It's just one more mark against you know who in my book. Why should the gov't make money selling brass to civilians when they can just destroy it? Idiots.


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## ross_scott (Apr 27, 2009)

groupings at 100 yards
43.0gr = 1.5" , 43.5 = 1.25", 44.0 = 1"(1 flier & 1 misfire), 44.5 = 0.50" (2 fliers)
Projectiles seated with only the top of the crimp ring showing

I have made a batch with a 43.8gr load and with projectiles seated with half of the crimp ring showing, the round is now the full length of the magazine with the bullet seated out a little further. I have also read on the net that the mossberg likes the projectile as close as possible to the lands. I full length size my cases as I do not have a neck die yet but I am going to get one very soon as I feel it would benefit to neck size only, the dies I am using are hornady custom grade dies. I am no longer using the milsurps they were only used for the load development as I did not have enough Remington brass to do the range of loads I was working with the 44.0 and 45.0 loads I did were with Remington brass. also please note that I don't crimp the bulltes in place as they are in there nice and snug. will post some results of my range session I am doing tomorrow.


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## ross_scott (Apr 27, 2009)

Here is a pic of how I have the bullet seated 
the round on the left is a dead round that I made up as a practice run before making the load work up the round on the right is a live round from batch #2 hopefully you are able to see the difference in bullet seating lengths


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## rob206 (Apr 27, 2009)

ross_scott said:


> groupings at 100 yards
> 43.0gr = 1.5" , 43.5 = 1.25", 44.0 = 1"(1 flier & *1 misfire*), 44.5 = 0.50" (2 fliers)



And the cause was? Did the firing pin strike the primer? You have to be very careful not to contaminate the priming mix. Any oil or grease residue on your fingers can make the primer inert.


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## rob206 (Apr 27, 2009)

ross_scott said:


> groupings at 100 yards
> 43.0gr = 1.5" , 43.5 = 1.25", 44.0 = 1"(1 flier & *1 misfire*), 44.5 = 0.50" (2 fliers)



You didn't flinch did ya?


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## ross_scott (Apr 27, 2009)

rob206 said:


> And the cause was? Did the firing pin strike the primer? You have to be very careful not to contaminate the priming mix. Any oil or grease residue on your fingers can make the primer inert.


It was a faulty primer I inspected the round after leaving in rifle for 1 minute in case of discharge the firing pin mark was of the same depth as all the other rounds I had fired. I only use Hornady one shot case lube, My reloading table is one of my coffee tables that I can put anywhere in the house I don't reload in the garage as I have no electricity in my garage and there is not enough natural light in there.


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## ross_scott (Apr 27, 2009)

rob206 said:


> You didn't flinch did ya?


I flinched once and that was because of the unexpected .303 style boot to the shoulder on the first round of the 44.5grainers generally I do not flinch atleast I didn't have a towel between me and the butpad like the guy next to me that was firing a .270


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## rob206 (Apr 27, 2009)

ross_scott said:


> It was a faulty primer I inspected the round after leaving in rifle for 1 minute in case of discharge the firing pin mark was of the same depth as all the other rounds I had fired. I only use Hornady one shot case lube, My reloading table is one of my coffee tables that I can put anywhere in the house I don't reload in the garage as I have no electricity in my garage and there is not enough natural light in there.



I hope you're not discouraged by that. I have been reloading since I was a young teenager with my dad, I have never had a faulty primer, so this is not common. I did however, have some 30-30 brass that had been reloaded countless times and the primer pockets started to open up some, and that would cause misfires. That brass was ditched(it was reloaded over & over for maybe 12 or 13yrs) and problem solved.


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## ross_scott (Apr 27, 2009)

rob206 said:


> I hope you're not discouraged by that. I have been reloading since I was a young teenager with my dad, I have never had a faulty primer, so this is not common. I did however, have some 30-30 brass that had been reloaded countless times and the primer pockets started to open up some, and that would cause misfires. That brass was ditched(it was reloaded over & over for maybe 12 or 13yrs) and problem solved.



To me it is all part of the learning process I was ####ting myself on the first batch but now I am feeling comfortable with my loading 1 misfire to me is not discouraging as that could have been a factory round that misfired. it comes to one phrase "it happens"


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## dingeryote (Apr 27, 2009)

rob206 said:


> Is mil brass available in the US? I read a thread on another site, and they had a link that suggested the gov't was going to start destroying used mil brass. Don't know when this was supposed to take effect, and doesn't hamper me personally as I don't shoot .308. It's just one more mark against you know who in my book. Why should the gov't make money selling brass to civilians when they can just destroy it? Idiots.



rob,

It's still avalable. Try gun broker, as a bunch of guys are selling it processed.

My favorite outlet is Pat Mcdonald. www.patsreloading.com he's out right now thanks to the Knob creek shoot and folks stocking up, but check out his prices!! beats everyone else out there by a good margin.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## dingeryote (Apr 27, 2009)

ross_scott said:


> groupings at 100 yards
> 43.0gr = 1.5" , 43.5 = 1.25", 44.0 = 1"(1 flier & 1 misfire), 44.5 = 0.50" (2 fliers)
> Projectiles seated with only the top of the crimp ring showing
> 
> I have made a batch with a 43.8gr load and with projectiles seated with half of the crimp ring showing, the round is now the full length of the magazine with the bullet seated out a little further. I have also read on the net that the mossberg likes the projectile as close as possible to the lands. I full length size my cases as I do not have a neck die yet but I am going to get one very soon as I feel it would benefit to neck size only, the dies I am using are hornady custom grade dies. I am no longer using the milsurps they were only used for the load development as I did not have enough Remington brass to do the range of loads I was working with the 44.0 and 45.0 loads I did were with Remington brass. also please note that I don't crimp the bulltes in place as they are in there nice and snug. will post some results of my range session I am doing tomorrow.




Ross,

I was trying to somehow tell ya that the Mossy's were known to have a long leade, without it sounding like I was bashing on the poor thing..

If you're maxed out in the mag though, oh well.
Time to work back from there!
I have seen some rifles do exceptionally well with a long leade once the sweet spot was found.

No need to crimp if you have enough and consistent neck tension or bullet "Pull". Crimping just introduces another potential variable and possible jacket/core deformation. I never crimp either, unless loading for a semi-auto, and then it's a long taper crimp in a Redding die.

If you wish to try neck sizing only, you can do it with a FL sizing die.
Just back out the sizing die a couple turns, blacken the neck of a fired case and run it into the die(Lubed FL of course...don't get it stuck! if ya do holler) and see how much of the neck was resized. From there keep repeating untill the blacking is removed down to about 3mm from the neck shoulder, and lock down the Die. Next, just adjust the decapping pin downward until it engages and pops out the spent primers using an already deprimed case.

I love the Hornady tapered expanders!!

Next to Redding, Hornady is my favorite.

Be carefull. Before ya know it, you'll be turning case necks, sorting brass by weight, uniforming primer pockets, and sorting loads by co-ax runout LOL!!

Serious reloading disease makes Cad look like a mild case of the sniffles!! LOL

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## ShoerFast (Apr 27, 2009)

Just $0.03 cents worth...

Just me, but I would take an old no longer good case and stuff a bullet in it so it is just started. Cycle it through the action so the rifling seats the bullet to your real overall length. 

You have a nice group @ 43Grs as it looks like to me that it is just walking up and down, not as much side to side as the others. 

To me that would be a good starting point, walk the bullets out toward the rifling more just @ 43Grs for now, till your elevations are more constant before you chase frog-fur with charge amounts. 

It's all good, and it's all part of the learning curve, it is clear to hear your excitement in your post, thanks for sharing that!


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## ShoerFast (Apr 27, 2009)

It should be mentioned that looking for pressure indications is where to really start when working up a load. 

Some could say that the first place to look is how the primer sets back and squares off on the bolt-face, the next sign is how the firing pin dimples the metal of the primer. 

Pressure is the only thing that sends the bullet, to much is what should make you jumpy when you first fire a few of your reloads, it can kill you. 

From left - right, as the first primer looks a little boring to me, the second and third look like there starting to have a little more down-range fun. 




Some will bring there loads to the point of "A" in the below picture, but even that point is for the very seasoned reloader/hunter looking for that Prairie-Dog on the far side, or that road hunter that never gets any closer. 

"B" & "C" are the works of crazed individuals that may need a little couch time with a head shrink?




The biggest point I can think of is make your changes slowly/gradually, your going to know when your making progress, and with the right mindset, your going to know when to call it good. 

Never has the statement been more true then to 'BE SAFE' while reloading.


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## ross_scott (Apr 27, 2009)

I just got back from the range 
at 43.8gr of AR2208 and with the projectile seated further out (seating depth 11.0mm from base of bullet to the crimp ring) I got 3/4" - 1.0" groups and I had two round go through the same hole so I am really happy with that result. Shoerfast and dingeryote I have checked the freespace and I have a 1-2mm jump before bullet hits the lands of the rifle. Also with the results I got today I think I would be happy to call this load the one I want to use there was another reloader there testing some rounds for his rifle and he was rather impressed with my results. In the target pic there are some shots that are unnumbered I was just messing around after doing my numbered shots


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## dingeryote (Apr 27, 2009)

ross_scott said:


> I just got back from the range
> at 43.8gr of AR2208 and with the projectile seated further out (seating depth 11.0mm from base of bullet to the crimp ring) I got 3/4" - 1.0" groups and I had two round go through the same hole so I am really happy with that result. Shoerfast and dingeryote I have checked the freespace and I have a 1-2mm jump before bullet hits the lands of the rifle. Also with the results I got today I think I would be happy to call this load the one I want to use there was another reloader there testing some rounds for his rifle and he was rather impressed with my results. In the target pic there are some shots that are unnumbered I was just messing around after doing my numbered shots



Ross,

Nice triangular groups!

That's a Keeper load with that Bullet combo.

Don't sweat the freebore, as it just makes load finding more difficult, but ya got that outta the way for the 165 Hornady quick enough.


If you are gonna tinker with other bullets, it would help greatly if you had a OAL comparator that indexes off of a common datum line as you can find the same dimension to your 165 loads datum line as a reference to start from without guessing about bearing surface/Ogive differences.

The Stony point job ain't bad at all, and inserts for other calibers are cheap enough.

Your supressor do doubt has some influence on consistency.
If it's wet can, try to replicate the fill or accuracy might get wierd on ya.
Suppresors can be murder on bolt rifle accuracy...and drive ya to fits!!!
But it looks like yours compliments things well.
Sweet!!


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## ross_scott (Apr 27, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> Ross,
> 
> Nice triangular groups!
> 
> ...



Thanks for that mate. I am totally happy with this load so I do not think I will be tweaking or trying any other bullets, Hornady interlocks work well for me so I can not see the point in using anything else unless I can't get what I want and if that happens sierra gamekings are next on my list. As for the suppressor it is a dry can it does add some weight to the front but I hardly notice it and the best part is it makes the .308 sound like a .22magnum. the bits of advice I have had in this thread so far is a great benefit and I am thankful for that.


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## Austin1 (Apr 30, 2009)

ShoerFast said:


> It should be mentioned that looking for pressure indications is where to really start when working up a load.
> 
> Some could say that the first place to look is how the primer sets back and squares off on the bolt-face, the next sign is how the firing pin dimples the metal of the primer.
> 
> ...


Great post! Love the old truck in your avatar too!I have kinda been Reloading since I was 10 years old,as A kid my big brother would have me do all the dirty work Fine steel wool the brass (Pre tumbler day's)Clean primer pockets and trim the brass and chamfer and even prime the cases. I sure hope my first kid is a son:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:
But I broke a cardinal rule once about 15 years ago, loading up some 7x57mm Rounds for my ruger 77.I assumed all my cases would be the same length I did not face them off like usual. I just took the new virgin brass and loaded it with my favorite load pushing a 150 gr Nosler Part at 2820fps.Well one of them cases was way too long Rem Brass same lot number as my last for me. So the case was crunched into the throat of the chamber when I fired that round the night before I was to leave on my Muley hunt well I had a case of exhibit B you have shown. A bit of smoke curling up from the receiver and a might bit of a sharp kick said I was lucky!
P.S I got my Deer too I don't think I have ever been skunked on a muley hunt.


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## ross_scott (Apr 30, 2009)

I just had that keeper load chronographed and that combo does 2749fps which is 49fps more than Hornadys standard load in 165gr their light magnum does 2880FPS


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