# The Forgotten Tool



## DanTheCanadian (Mar 7, 2014)

So I've been wondering what you professionals carry for pounding wedges. I've seen threads about all kinds of ppe, saws of course, caulks, even about wedges, but no one seems to talk about the axe.

Personally I carry a 3lb 24" axe but I'm gonna pick up a 4lbs in case I need to get persuasive. I'm curios too see what the guys carrying them for 8-10hrs or sometimes more carry.

Thanks for your time,


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## paccity (Mar 7, 2014)

5lb council . short strait handle about 28". you could worry about the weight packing it. but you'll appreciate the weight when you have to really drive home some wedges.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 7, 2014)

I switch between 2 different axes depending how big the timber is, a 3.5# antique crasftsman, and a newish 5# council rafting axe, both have about 28" handles. Long handles give more power but get in the way.

Mostly I just have lots of history with the craftsman axe... although if you really want to squarsh some wedges the 5 pounder will do ya.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 7, 2014)

I am the odd ball here, 8 pound sledge with 24" handle.
I probly should get a ax, only need the sledge once in a while really. good ax hard to find on this side.


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## EricNY (Mar 7, 2014)

I'm no professional but I favor 3.5lbs and 26" handle. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## 2dogs (Mar 8, 2014)

5lb Council rafting axe for most use, also a 4lb head on a 20" handle that fits my scabbard. I also have a 3lb Council on a 28" handle but it does not see much use.

The use of splitting wedges marks one as a fool or a beginner.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 8, 2014)

splitting wedges? I use the red heads, 10" TT mostly.
I'd like to see some of you guys axes, council seems to be popular.
there is a thread elsewhere about the hardheads failing in cold weather, I haven't used them.


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## Gologit (Mar 8, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> splitting wedges? I use the red heads, 10" TT mostly.
> I'd like to see some of you guys axes, council seems to be popular.
> there is a thread elsewhere about the hardheads failing in cold weather, I haven't used them.



The Councils we get out here have a good flat head for driving wedges. They don't seem to beat the wedges up as bad as a dime-store ax with a rounded head. Gotta hit the wedge straight though. I use a 5 lb with a straight handle...I think it's 24 inches but I've never measured it.

On those hard-head wedges that are breaking...do you think that maybe the guys are wailing on them too much? I've seen people keep slamming a wedge even after it's apparent that the wedge is stalled out and isn't really going anywhere. Maybe the super cold weather and poor technique?


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## northmanlogging (Mar 8, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> splitting wedges? I use the red heads, 10" TT mostly.
> I'd like to see some of you guys axes, council seems to be popular.
> there is a thread elsewhere about the hardheads failing in cold weather, I haven't used them.




here ya go,




The Collins is popular, since they're still made in the US, decent quality, and not outrageously expensive, I think they go for around $50.

Yeah I know the Craftsman needs a new handle, its also smashed from using it as a jack plate...


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## slowp (Mar 8, 2014)

Hmmmmm. No Fiskars?

Don't forget to paint the handle a bright color so you can find it in the woods.


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## HuskStihl (Mar 8, 2014)

I stole the TreeSlayer's stumpy sledge idea (6lb, 24") and usually apply it to hardheads. I left my axe in the truck as I never used the sharp end of it for anything. Now, although I am a pro faller in my mind only, and I totally admit an axe is much cooler than a sledge (can't stick the sledge into the next tree), I'd like to know how often the real pros use the sharp end of the axe


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 8, 2014)

IDK Bob, I beat them red heads pretty hard with the sledge. they won't break less ya hit um crooked, granted it not as cold here. we did have frozen timber this year and I didn't break any.
northy, the red one is a Collins? it looks good.
Jon, that's what i'm thinkin I could stick it in a little beech or other trash tree.
and yes Ms P I like that neon green you posted. I have always painted um orange but that was bright.


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## Gologit (Mar 8, 2014)

Jon.......If you're good enough and use your head a little you probably won't use it much. But if you _need_ it you usually need it right now. An axe makes a good emergency wedge when you've screwed up and mis-read a tree and all your wedges are flushed in with no tree movement. It can be used to open up a kerf a little to stack wedges when a tree sits back on your bar. In a pinch an ax can make a good jack plate or a shim. If you're carrying your saw on your shoulder on rough ground an axe makes a good walking stick. Sledge hammer might not work quite as good.
If you get hung up it might be faster to chop your way out than to hike back to the truck for your other saw or call your partner over to cut you out. If your partner has to cut you out, especially if it happens with any regularity, he's entitled to make comments to you. They won't be flattering. If you have to chop your way out of a bind you'll find out real quick how good...or bad...you are with an axe. My Dad use to call me Lightning...I never hit twice in the same place.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 8, 2014)

so y'all do keep um sharp then?


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## Gologit (Mar 8, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> IDK Bob, I beat them red heads pretty hard with the sledge. they won't break less ya hit um crooked, granted it not as cold here. we did have frozen timber this year and I didn't break any.
> northy, the red one is a Collins? it looks good.
> Jon, that's what i'm thinkin I could stick it in a little beech or other trash tree.
> and yes Ms P I like that neon green you posted. I have always painted um orange but that was bright.



Was that redheads or hardheads that they were breaking? I've never used the hardheads but the redheads have always been a favorite of mine. I've had them break when I hit them wrong or tried to drive them when they were stalled out. They usually broke right at the tree. A lot of that is on me. I tend to keep wedges way too long when they should be thrown out or used for door stops.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 8, 2014)

was the hard heads they broke......I think Glen used um, wish he was around to comment.
yup, if a red head fails it was me. sometimes I cut one in a small tree.


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## Gologit (Mar 8, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> so y'all do keep um sharp then?


 Not razor sharp, no. They don't have to be surgically sharp to cut well enough to do what I need them to do. I always worry about a super sharp ax slicing me open when I wear them in my belt.
I know that none of the rest of you ever fall down but I still do occasionally. It's nice when that ax just scratches me up a little and doesn't try to remove a kidney.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 8, 2014)

lol, I always look around to make sure no one saw me fall.......cuz ya know I don't fall pft lol.


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## Gologit (Mar 8, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> was the hard heads they broke......I think Glen used um, wish he was around to comment.
> yup, if a red head fails it was me. sometimes I cut one in a small tree.


 
By the end of the season...hell, sometimes by the end of the _week..._I usually have a little box full of blunt tip wedges to occupy my spare time.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 8, 2014)

you sharpen um? I tried that but just didn't drive right no more.


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## windthrown (Mar 8, 2014)

Forget something to pound them in with. I need more wedges!


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## rwoods (Mar 8, 2014)

Gologit said:


> ... . My Dad use to call me Lightning...I never hit twice in the same place.



Can't repeat my Dad's comments. My father was better with his machete than I was with an axe. After I knocked myself silly when a small dead top broke off and hit me in the head, I gave up trying to chop down trees. My crippled and arthritic grandfather could use an axe as well as he could a butcher's knife -I always knew I had a lot to learn when I was around either of them when they were using a tool. But I was young, proud and busy with youthful nonsense to ask for lessons. Both are gone now. One of the reasons I hang out here; trying to learn from others. Ron


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## HuskStihl (Mar 8, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Jon.......If you're good enough and use your head a little you probably won't use it much. But if you _need_ it you usually need it right now. An axe makes a good emergency wedge when you've screwed up and mis-read a tree and all your wedges are flushed in with no tree movement. It can be used to open up a kerf a little to stack wedges when a tree sits back on your bar. In a pinch an ax can make a good jack plate or a shim. If you're carrying your saw on your shoulder on rough ground an axe makes a good walking stick. Sledge hammer might not work quite as good.
> If you get hung up it might be faster to chop your way out than to hike back to the truck for your other saw or call your partner over to cut you out. If your partner has to cut you out, especially if it happens with any regularity, he's entitled to make comments to you. They won't be flattering. If you have to chop your way out of a bind you'll find out real quick how good...or bad...you are with an axe. My Dad use to call me Lightning...I never hit twice in the same place.


Thanks for taking the time to explain that. As a sub-firewood hack I am never far from the "crummy" where I have a spare bar and chain, as well as a bunch of wedges. I'm pretty sure chopping my bar out would give me a heart attack, and ever since reading "Where the Red Fern Grows" as a kid, I don't like moving around much with the head of an axe near my body.


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## DanTheCanadian (Mar 8, 2014)

Wow 5lbs, I gonna pick one up to try it. Myself im a short guy so 24" is plenty long. The added weight should help compensate for my short........ handle. I always like an axe because chopping a pinched axe out seems easier then hiking to the crummy, and calling someone over is ego suicide lol. Never played much with hardheads, regular stihl wedges seem to work for me. 5$ each at Canadian tire, hard to beat that.


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## Gologit (Mar 8, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> you sharpen um? I tried that but just didn't drive right no more.



I try to but it's hard to match the old angles if they're broken very far up. I usually use a horse shoer's rasp. Some guys use a jig saw or a band saw. If they're broken too far up I usually just junk them.


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## madhatte (Mar 8, 2014)

I was a big fan of my old 4# Plumb until 2Dogs clued me in to the magic that is a 5# Council. You wouldn't think that a single pound would make that much of a difference but it really does. (Thanks again, by the way)


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## northmanlogging (Mar 8, 2014)

HuskStihl said:


> I stole the TreeSlayer's stumpy sledge idea (6lb, 24") and usually apply it to hardheads. I left my axe in the truck as I never used the sharp end of it for anything. Now, although I am a pro faller in my mind only, and I totally admit an axe is much cooler than a sledge (can't stick the sledge into the next tree), I'd like to know how often the real pros use the sharp end of the axe



I can stick one but only when some one is looking... which I admit is odd...

I use mine fairly often, mostly to whack knots and branches on the landing, quicker than grabbing a saw. And of course the occasional pinched saw while bucking, or worse when one sits back while falling, although that hasn't happened in awhile.



treeslayer2003 said:


> IDK Bob, I beat them red heads pretty hard with the sledge. they won't break less ya hit um crooked, granted it not as cold here. we did have frozen timber this year and I didn't break any.
> northy, the red one is a Collins? it looks good.
> Jon, that's what i'm thinkin I could stick it in a little beech or other trash tree.
> and yes Ms P I like that neon green you posted. I have always painted um orange but that was bright.



Yep red one is the Collins.

I keep mine sharper then is probably wise, and have scars to prove it... infact the first day I had to Collins out, I whacked a wedge tight and she bounced back and bit me in the Tricep, just behind my right elbow, another one I maybe should have gotten stitches on.


I've never cut myself while falling, at least not with an axe.


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## DanTheCanadian (Mar 8, 2014)

I wonder if Council axes are available in Canada anywhere. The most popular here in Quebec is Garrett. Nice hickory handles, cheap Chinese heads.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 8, 2014)

Bailleys carrys them, so there is always mail order.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 8, 2014)

I have to order almost everything any more........this place is turning into a big retirement home.


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## Joe46 (Mar 8, 2014)

What Paccity said. You can also use the 28" straight handle as a plumb bob.


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## Philbert (Mar 8, 2014)

I take a Fiskars chopping axe (not the splitting maul) - light and effective, like the mauls. I am mostly bucking, not falling. Sharpen with a smooth file when needed.

I clean up/re-shape plastic wedges with a bandsaw and belt sander.

Philbert


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 8, 2014)

so how does a council compare to northman's Collins? most the old good axes around here are ground away or been used for a hammer till they mushroomed.
the last new one I got from a hardware litteraly broke two inches from the blade edge. all I did was stick it in the kerf while bucking.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 8, 2014)

The councils are junk, broke the blade off the first tiime I used one of em, the poll rounds off just beating wedges, and they don't hold an edge for ****. Pretty much any tool you can buy at a hardware store is junk now. was a time when that wasn't true, Hel I even remember when that was... Spend the extra money and get quality tools, then you only buy it once.

Only use file or hand stone to sharpen them, (file for those that don't plan on shaving with it...) grinders ruin more axes than rocks.

My dad uses a 5 pound collins for splitting duty, except his have the longer handles, not as heavy as a mall so it don't wear you out, but heavy enough to do the job. Guy has 30 pounds on me but can split 2-3 cords in a day and never break a sweat.


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## treeslayer2003 (Mar 8, 2014)

so looking at axes online, it looks to me the rafting axe would be a good shape for wedging........heavy of course 5-6 lb.
give me some input here.
I thinking "vintage" prolly better steel.
side note; seems what I thought are ground down are really called half axe??? what they for?


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## HuskStihl (Mar 8, 2014)

Brian (bmx250rqx180) really likes the husqvarna forged axes, but they ain't cheap


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## DanTheCanadian (Mar 8, 2014)

HuskStihl said:


> Brian (bmx250rqx180) really likes the husqvarna forged axes, but they ain't cheap


Saw those on Bailey's, pretty interesting looking. My experience with husqvarna equipment has always been positive.


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## hammerlogging (Mar 8, 2014)

a 4 lb head with a 32" rafting axe handle. Yes, the sharp end gets used for incidental pinches or what have you. Mine is abused and not sharp but still does the job.


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## paccity (Mar 8, 2014)

Councils are not that bad. the two i have are good enough to do the job . the steel in them has a good ping to them when your driving . but if you can find an old head that has life left in it . look for something in the 4-5lb range and a big flat heal to it.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 8, 2014)

them collins axes have pretty good steel, drop forged and tempered, the others unless hand forged (more on that later), are usually drop forged and then just hardened, or really just quenched. Tempering is a whole nether step in the hardening process.

As far as the "hand Forged" axes.. they for the most part are really drop forged, just with some dude flipping them through the dies instead of a machine, some are tempered some may be just hardened... Either way ya ask me they aren't worth the coin spent on em. (Drop forging is like using a big bitchin press to form red hot steel into pre exsisting dies, usually a several step process, but not really requiring a whole lot of skill, since the reall skill in black smithing is knowing where to strike and how hard with which tool), Oh and they leave all the scale on until the very end to give them that "one of a kind look" then just dip em in some nitric acid to clean...

Now a truly hand forged axe, made with a hammer, anvil, and fire... maybe a couple of drifts, and possibly a swage block, then it could really be worth some money.

But then I'm an opinionated ass, and no one should listen to me.


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## DanTheCanadian (Mar 9, 2014)

I've always wanted to try making my own. My neighbour has a forge and he said I can have at it.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 9, 2014)

hardest part is drifting and punching the hole, can't take your time on it, just pound it through or the drift/punch gets stuck and you start over, without a drift/punch. The rest is just whacking steel with a hammer and knowing what shape you want to end up with. That and being patient enough to wait for the steel to be hot enough.


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## 2dogs (Mar 9, 2014)

madhatte said:


> I was a big fan of my old 4# Plumb until 2Dogs clued me in to the magic that is a 5# Council. You wouldn't think that a single pound would make that much of a difference but it really does. (Thanks again, by the way)



Truper. And your welcome again.


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## DanTheCanadian (Mar 9, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> hardest part is drifting and punching the hole, can't take your time on it, just pound it through or the drift/punch gets stuck and you start over, without a drift/punch. *The rest is just whacking steel with a hammer and knowing what shape you want to end up with.* That and being patient enough to wait for the steel to be hot enough.


I've actually forged horseshoes before and it's that easy but it can be tricky. The general shape is easy, to size match is the hardest part. Also, like you mentioned, the best way to keep your punch is to swing like you don't know what your doing. If the steel cools and contracts you've had it lol.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 9, 2014)

Yep, three hits and through or knock the punch out and back in the fire.

The real skill with forging is knowing which steps to do first. I've only cheated on the axe heads, and did a wrap back, rather then a punched hole, I have an old Cat wrist pin laying around that would make a dandy axe though... Forging has been one of my many hobbies for nearly 30 years, I still suck at it though.

Just don't have much time anymore, keep thinking when this job is finished I'll make X, but it never fails, 2 weeks before the current job ends, I get 20 calls looking for a logger. Not complaining at this rate I'll be full time soon.


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## madhatte (Mar 10, 2014)

2dogs said:


> Truper. And your welcome again.


Truper, of course, my bad.


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## DanTheCanadian (Mar 10, 2014)

Was talking to some local loggers here and one guy uses a dead blow hammer. Says it hits hard, saves wedges, and is really light and small. Kind of a good idea actually.


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