# Bore cutting? (3)



## husq2100 (Jul 10, 2008)

Bore cutting, when is it used?

any links to video's?

Cheers, Serg


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## hammerlogging (Jul 10, 2008)

most generically as an alternative to back cutting. I bet there's lots on here about it if you searched it here or the techniquer forum. Very controlledd felling, helps prevent barber chair- probably really useful for eucalyptus, if you have that.


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## Bushler (Jul 10, 2008)

Bore cutting? I do that mostly for bucking. When falling small timber I will use the tip of the bar to 'bore cut' a face so I don't have to bend over.

Bore cutting to prevent barberchair? Sounds like a good way to lose a saw.

If you do use the tip of the bar to bore be sure you file your riders smoothly slopping back like they come from the factory. Don't just flatten your riders. The saw will kick back hard if you do. Trying to start a bore cut with flattend riders is like using a jack hammer.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 10, 2008)

I can count the times I have used a bore on both hands and only a couple
were necessary and that was because a fence or some other object was
in the way. The practice of putting a bar tip into wood is asking for bad
things to happen. Barberchair is not as bad as kickback in terms of death
or injury and can be controlled by other means; a well placed notch and
good backcut with a sharp saw and by backing away from the stump
instead of: standing there waiting:Eye:


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## Bushler (Jul 10, 2008)

I bore all the time when bucking. I been thinking about the use of boring when falling and thought of another common application of that cut. When falling a school marm that is tight, and the marms lean in opposite directions.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 10, 2008)

The use of bore cutting has made insurance rates go up as resulting
injuries from kickback. It is not the best alternative and highly overrated
in my opinion. I know it can be done without kickback but the truth is:
the practice ups the chance of serious kickback occurring and that 
alone should instill caution in its acceptance.


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## HandLogger (Jul 10, 2008)

*It's how many are trained*

Serg,

I'm a bit surprised by what I'm reading here because the bore cutting technique is what is taught and practiced by professional GOL instructors in the United States.


*After planning out the fall, which includes clearing two 45 degree escape routes* ... 

- A 70 degree or greater directional cut is made (taking care not to bypass into the hinge you're beginning to form)

- A bore cut is made from the "good side" of the tree (this cut defines the back of the hinge wood, *and one must leave release wood [aka, strap wood] at the rear of the tree*)

- A wedge is inserted into the bore cut (once again, from the good side of the tree)

- Lastly, the release wood is **cut away while keeping a close eye on the gap of the bore cut. As soon as the bore cut gap begins to open, *use one of your planned escape routes to leave the falling area!*​
** _The release cut is made slightly below the bore cut line, and is directed from outside the tree toward the center._

As much as possible, the orientation of the feller/operator is from the good side of the tree (away from the lean of the tree).

The GOL professionals I've watched (in the forest and in competitions) are consistently accurate and, most importantly, this technique gives more escape time than any other method I've seen or used.

NOTE: the proper part of the saw's bar must always be used when performing a bore cut: *just behind the nose and on the bottom of the bar.* *NEVER use the top of the bar when performing a bore cut* -- it's not called the _"kickback corner"_ of the guide bar for nothing.


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## 2dogs (Jul 10, 2008)

I think I own the technique of boring but I don't use it very often. It is tough to bore with a longer bar, say 32" and longer. Even when face boring a larger tree I at least start the bore with a 25" or shorter bar on a limbing saw. The longer bars are just too long of a lever arm. If I have a long walk to the tree I will only carry one saw that is large enough to do everything I need, usually a 32" or a 36" saw.

The boring cut is good to know. It is another tool in the tool box.


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## HandLogger (Jul 10, 2008)

*Bore cutting with a long bar*

Your thoughts on bore cutting with a long bar are well taken, *2dogs*. 

The bore cut method I described above is generally performed with a 20" bar. Almost all of the professional GOL instructors I've been around -- and competitors for that matter -- use a 20" guide bar.

I realize that this begs the question: _What do you do for 20"+ trees?_

You simply break each cut (described above) into two parts -- finishing on the good side of the tree. Obviously the release wood cut will not require two parts, but the preceding steps will when felling larger trees. 

This probably reads like extra work to some, but the safety this method offers is what it's all about. The pro GOL loggers I've worked with use this method to make a living, so there must be something to it. Perhaps they simply want to increase their chances of making it home after work ... 

Quote from my GOL Instructor (a full-time logger): _"If you use the proper technique, you shouldn't need a bar longer than 20" to fell most trees."_


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 10, 2008)

The bore cut is very effective when cutting heavy leaners with the lean. 

Face it up, bore in setting your hinge and leaving a good strap on the backside for holding, then trip the holding strap from the backside a little lower than your backcut. This is where it will save a barberchair, especially in cold hardwood where is impossible to keep up with the cut.

I also use it sometimes when pulling a tree with a rope against the lean. You can set it all up and partially cut the strap, then get in your machine or the winch and start to pull, the strap will release and you take it from there. Good technique if you have to do the cutting and the pulling. Just make sure the strap releases and you don't pull the top out of the tree, hook 2/3 up the tree is a good rule of thumb for this, obviously use your judgement if the tree's intergrity is in question.


I am very impressed with the bore cuts safety factor (due to the gained control) and employ it whenever I can. Nice trick to know.


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## HandLogger (Jul 10, 2008)

*Excellent information*

Yes, *Nails*, your words do a great job of further clarifying what I was trying to describe.

The bore cut method is very accurate because the control it offers is excellent ... and, once again, you normally get to watch the tree fall from a much safer distance. 

It's like all hazardous work practices: _*the basic rules must always be followed -- every single time!*_


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## goatchin (Jul 10, 2008)

HandLogger said:


> Your thoughts on bore cutting with a long bar are well taken, *2dogs*.
> 
> The bore cut method I described above is generally performed with a 20" bar. Almost all of the professional GOL instructors I've been around -- and competitors for that matter -- use a 20" guide bar.
> 
> ...



+1

Bill Lindloff (my GOL instructor) told me bout the same exact quote you posted. 

I haven't felled many trees compared to the rest of you guys, so i lack in experience, but i really like the GOL techniques because you are able to release the tree when YOU are READY, have a bit more time to reach your escape route/location, and are able aim the tree quite effectively (im sure you are able to do so w/ the backcut method but im stating from my experiences)


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## Bushler (Jul 10, 2008)

What's the GOL? That's pretty silly. A 20" bar isn't going to get through the bark and sap on a jug butted coastal conifer.

That whole process for falling seems weird.

Not the way I was taught.


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## husq2100 (Jul 10, 2008)

thanks all for your replys,

so you know, i have very very little time behind a saw.

in Australia our speed events in racing are 3 cut, hot start. 1st cut is bore down up, 2nd down and 3rd up.

i figured the bore cut must have come from felling or why would they use it in racing.

i think this youtube vid shows it well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVH3ShnhMRA

now i know you said cut the strap just lower than the back cut, but the way this guy does it seems to make sense to me. I'm a carpenter by trade and work with wood and see how it splits etc, i know its not the same stresses as felling a tree but, to me, it looks like angleing the strap cut like that would give good results.

what is boring a face cut?

does it matter whether you use a humboldt or conventional face?

Serg


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## abohac (Jul 10, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> I can count the times I have used a bore on both hands and only a couple
> were necessary and that was because a fence or some other object was
> in the way. The practice of putting a bar tip into wood is asking for bad
> things to happen. Barberchair is not as bad as kickback in terms of death
> ...



I'm with you. I rarely have seen a reason to to that. I have done it, but really didn't have a reason to.


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## smokechase II (Jul 10, 2008)

*Reasons for:*

It is a method that reduces the likelihood of a barber chair event.

It does allow for setting the holding wood precisely.

It can give the faller control exactly when a tree will go over.

It can allow for a slightly faster escape.

*******************

Reasons against:

It requires more concentration at the stump and takes away from vertical awareness. (Death from above stuff)

It requires more skill than a standard back-cut and is subject to greater kick-back risk.

It can cause a dead tree to vibrate more and that could dislodge a hazard.

Doesn't work at all in smaller diameters and poorly in medium small diameters.

Often doesn't work on slope when match cuts are needed.

Clearly not appropriate in rotten wood. (Tree set down - not tree set back but both are accompanied by the same expletives.)

{Boring with match cuts has the faller moving back and forth. Longer bars can allow for making all the cuts on the safe side of the tree/snag.}

Doesn't allow the flexibility in different chain sharpening. A West Coast professional logger chain (HUNGRY - flat filed and rakers low) is not well suited for boring. (Generally, a 'safer' slower cutting chain is better for boring. However, that works against efficient cutting when doing other than bore cuts for the experienced faller.)


*******************

Remember: "*what is taught and practiced by professional GOL instructors in the United States." *isn't decreed by God.
The open face technique being taught on the East Coast and somewhat in the Mid-West is a smaller tree production technique from Scandinavia. Application in one setting does not guarantee the same elsewhere.

--------------

"*Clearing two 45 degree escape routes ..." *Please do not limit yourself to 45 degree escapes. For instance; if falling a tree either directly up or downhill please evaluate and probably use a 90 degree escape. 

----------------

"A* 70 degree or greater directional cut is made*" A 70+ degree cut is often neither necessary nor will it provide any benefit at all in certain woods. This makes it especially illogical when dealing with hazard trees. Don't place yourself in the danger zone (next to the stump) than necessary.

-------------------

"*A bore cut is made from the "good side" of the tree*". This fails to deal with matching cuts and the "good side" term is based on weight (tension vs. compression wood). This is misleading. A term like good side should equate with safety. For instance the good side should relate to the safe side, which may not be the tension side.

--------------------

"*A wedge is inserted into the bore cut* (once again, from the good side of the tree)" That makes sense. Same side you bore from is where the wedge(s) will be placed.
Do try and avoid wedging next to the hinge. Great way to pop holding wood.

----------------------

"*The pro GOL loggers I've worked with use this method to make a living, so there must be something to it. Perhaps they simply want to increase their chances of making it home after work*”

They don't exist in the PNW for good reason. It's not that bore cutting is without merit. It is more the my way or the highway attitudfe by those that haven't worked in a setting.
The ones making a living here should be listened to, in this steep terrain / larger tree / hazard tree settings.


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## smokechase II (Jul 10, 2008)

*Now having said all that*

Figure out what works.

Don't lock into any one school of thought.


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## smokechase II (Jul 10, 2008)

*Here is an example*

If any falling training and certification program one is part of does not require demonstrated proficiency from both sides of the tree. Judge it harshly. (Being able to complete all your cuts from the same side.)

This is not just for work on slope but also for utilizing the safe side. Remember the good side of the tree is the one without hazards above. (I can't believe how stupid they were in using that name for other than safety. Why you'd think they had no background in hazard trees.

Don't place yourself under a hazard.


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## Job Corps Tree (Jul 10, 2008)

what is GOL? Is that the Game of Logging? If it is I had Tim (Ared)? for an Instructor in 97


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 10, 2008)

uninformed said:


> thanks all for your replys,
> 
> so you know, i have very very little time behind a saw.
> 
> ...






Notice where the tree ended up? In the firewood pile. If he backcut a perfect butt log like that he would have to remove my boot from his A$$. Thats why you trip it lower, then you clean up the butt on the ground.

The other thing you can do is bore it and finnish the back cut by cutting right out the back while still in the bore cut. I do this on trees that don't have a severe lean, it's faster.

You could bore a humbolt or traditional, or open face for that matter. The notch used does not affect the bore cut.

To bore the face, you make your notch (openface), then bore through the apex of the notch out the backside of the tree, leaving straps of wood on each side. Backcut your straps and your in business. This leaves hingewood only on the outside of the tree, lessens fiber pull. One downside is a weaker hinge, less strength against side lean. Kind of a speacialty technique like the tongue and groove. Have to know when to use it.

My personal take on that video was that the guy looked like he was running a saw on the moon. He should consider dropping some of the gear and spending money on a man's saw and some saw skills. He got it done, but looked like it was his first tree, not smooth at all.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 10, 2008)

Job Corps Tree said:


> what is GOL? Is that the Game of Logging? If it is I had Tim (Ared)? for an Instructor in 97



I think it is game of luck a bore cut is not needed in my opinion.
I can crush a soda can with out a bore and can escape just fine
and also advantage in back cutting is if it is slightly off you can
correct it as it starts to move. If you are a borer go for it as long
as you are not on my job. I don't want to perform cpr on a bloody
individual.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Jul 10, 2008)

I do bore cuts on bigger trees on steep slopes with some lean. If performed correctly it is safe, i was taught this by many long time cutters. My girlfriends dad has been bore cutting for 31 years without a kickback incident.


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## husq2100 (Jul 10, 2008)

Smokechase II - look at the vid that was a small tree.

Nailsbeats - "Notice where the tree ended up? In the firewood pile. If he backcut a perfect butt log like that he would have to remove my boot from his A$$. Thats why you trip it lower, then you clean up the butt on the ground." 

what do you mean by "butt log" 

"Notice where the tree ended up? In the firewood pile. If he backcut a perfect butt log like that he would have to remove my boot from his A$$. Thats why you trip it lower, then you clean up the butt on the ground"

do you think it was unsafe, (i thought he did a good job) with the saws i have i would use my 266 or 272xp for that job, what size saw do you think is appropriate for that tree and how would you go about it, with AND without Bore

like i said i have FA experience running saws.

Serg


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## husq2100 (Jul 10, 2008)

what is the "open face" technique

Serg


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## husq2100 (Jul 10, 2008)

Smokechase II - "A bore cut is made from the "good side" of the tree". This fails to deal with matching cuts and the "good side" term is based on weight (tension vs. compression wood). This is misleading. A term like good side should equate with safety. For instance the good side should relate to the safe side, which may not be the tension side.


when looking at a tree from one side, lets say its leaning to the left, you will make the face cut perpandicular (90 degress to) to the direction of fall. the the bore cut will be parrallel to the face cut, so my way of thinking is that the compression wood is at the face cut and the tension wood is at the back where the strap will be. so i cant see how compression or tension would be on one side or the other? what am i missing???

not taking about boring a face cut, just use the video as an example.

Serg


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 10, 2008)

uninformed said:


> what is the "open face" technique
> 
> Serg




It is a notch that looks like this > angled top and bottom. This allows the hinge to stay intact throughout the fall keeping complete control.


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## husq2100 (Jul 11, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> It is a notch that looks like this > angled top and bottom. This allows the hinge to stay intact throughout the fall keeping complete control.



how deep would you go in to the tree, 1/3 etc???

whats the included angle of the face cut?

Serg


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 11, 2008)

uninformed said:


> Smokechase II - look at the vid that was a small tree.
> 
> Nailsbeats - "Notice where the tree ended up? In the firewood pile. If he backcut a perfect butt log like that he would have to remove my boot from his A$$. Thats why you trip it lower, then you clean up the butt on the ground."
> 
> ...


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 11, 2008)

uninformed said:


> how deep would you go in to the tree, 1/3 etc???
> 
> whats the included angle of the face cut?
> 
> Serg




1/3. The angle of the open face notch should be 90 degrees, so the tree hits the ground and the notch closes at the same time.

It's important to understand that all these specs can vary, because of all the variables. These are just general guidlines that can be tweaked to fit each individual falling situation. Don't get sucked into the "one way" mentality.


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## husq2100 (Jul 11, 2008)

well i guess we are looking from oposite ends of the spectrum, me totally new to this and you with what sounds like a lot of experience. in saying that, i think that making his face cut a little deeper with a second cut shows he didnt just go gun ho and over cut everything...... you can cut more out, but you cant put it back

if he is new to cutting, good on him for having a go, with my lack of experience i would be happy to cut like that.

and yes i understand that all in all these are only guide lines that must be applied when all the asspects have been taken into account.

cheers, Serg


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## 2dogs (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm most likely using a saw with a 32" or a 36" bar so I can stand back aways from what I'm cutting and so I can fall most trees with one backcut. The longer bar is better for me when it comes to bucking too. I tend to make angled bucking cuts and if I had to buck from each side things would be even worse. On steep ground I am going to work from the uphill side period, no 20" bars there. 

I'm also probably going to use a Humboldt with a snipe and hope the tree jumps off the stump aways. I don't want the tree holding to he stump all the way to the ground.

I guess GOL must work because many people use it but I sure don't want tangle with a mess of blowdowns with a 20" bar. To each his own.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 11, 2008)

chevytaHOE5674 said:


> I do bore cuts on bigger trees on steep slopes with some lean. If performed correctly it is safe, i was taught this by many long time cutters. My girlfriends dad has been bore cutting for 31 years without a kickback incident.



By incident ya mean injury right? I have experienced kickback non
server or resulting in injury in 23 yrs without a bore. Mostly bucking
or cutting in thick brush.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Jul 11, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> By incident ya mean injury right? I have experienced kickback non
> server or resulting in injury in 23 yrs without a bore. Mostly bucking
> or cutting in thick brush.



He told me he can not remember one time he has had kickback from a bore cut, now over 31 years a man forgets way more than he remembers so who knows. But if the bore cut is done right i never feel that kickback is imminent, it is a possibility whenever a chainsaw is in your hand but i don't think because i am bore cutting it will happen.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 11, 2008)

chevytaHOE5674 said:


> He told me he can not remember one time he has had kickback from a bore cut, now over 31 years a man forgets way more than he remembers so who knows. But if the bore cut is done right i never feel that kickback is imminent, it is a possibility whenever a chainsaw is in your hand but i don't think because i am bore cutting it will happen.



That may be but it ups the odds of it happening and server at that!


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Jul 11, 2008)

I guess if you don't feel comfortable with it then don't do it. If you are comfortable with it and know when to use it then by all means use it. I for one like having many different methods of felling in my head so that i have the right technique for any situation.


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## treejunkie13 (Jul 14, 2008)

If I may add: obviously there is a major difference from West to East Timber fallers, and the species being cut. I am not singling any one out but if I may use that Axemen t.v. show for an example, their whacking techniques (high stumps, fiber pull, and slabbing.)would not last 5 min. here in the Hardwood forests of N.W. PA. One of the most important things all over the world in this business is product, and fiber pull is not an option in nice hardwood log trees, hence the bore cut. I am not getting into the safety aspect, no matter what training an individual has, a Timber Faller has the final word on their safety and what they feel comfy with. So that being said, when quality counts, I bore cut. I can also add that it is vary rare to see a bar longer than 24" in the woods here, we just cut from both sides. Smaller bar equals less weight, cheaper price tag, more power and speed from the power head, oh yeah and less to file.


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## Bushler (Jul 14, 2008)

That makes sense, cutting for quality v. production cutting. The timber I'm cutting is pretty rough, lots of it goes to the chipper anyway. I cut long logs, (42') which leaves plenty for trim for the saw and peeler logs.

On a good day I cut, buck, and limb 5 long logger loads. On a bad day I'll cut 3 loads. That's below average for a good cutter, but then, I'm 60 years old, and cut at a reduced speed from my better days.

I cut approx. 75-100 pieces/day. I usually have 3 saws on my strip with different length bars. The strip I'm cutting now is steep, in excess of 100% ground slope. Hands and knees to climb up, (two steps forward, slide back three), and would be impossible to cut with a 20" bar. Period.

As for pulling stump wood, I stay on the saw and cut the trees off cleanly while they're falling.

Lastly, don't use the Axmen as an example of west coast cutters, they're the lamest bunch of dumb ***** I've watched. I end up throwing stuff at the t.v. when I watch them.

I've been cutting for 40 years.


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 14, 2008)

treejunkie13 said:


> If I may add: obviously there is a major difference from West to East Timber fallers, and the species being cut. I am not singling any one out but if I may use that Axemen t.v. show for an example, their whacking techniques (high stumps, fiber pull, and slabbing.)would not last 5 min. here in the Hardwood forests of N.W. PA. One of the most important things all over the world in this business is product, and fiber pull is not an option in nice hardwood log trees, hence the bore cut. I am not getting into the safety aspect, no matter what training an individual has, a Timber Faller has the final word on their safety and what they feel comfy with. So that being said, when quality counts, I bore cut. I can also add that it is vary rare to see a bar longer than 24" in the woods here, we just cut from both sides. Smaller bar equals less weight, cheaper price tag, more power and speed from the power head, oh yeah and less to file.




Those are good observations, pretty accurate with my experience too.


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## smokechase II (Jul 14, 2008)

*I agree*

treejunkie13:

On the boring cuts would have helped that is not a bad idea.
Lower stumps, yes sir.

Those sales were all state run affairs.
Although I'm not a logger I would ask that not all Oregon Cutters be judged by those guys. There has been quit a bit of talk about those "idiots" around the state.

In regards to a short bar.
Not on slope,
Not on a tree with hazards on one side,
Did you notice the release power on the bucks?


More bore cutting will come with time.
Not every tree....

Short bars on hillsides, no that will not happen.
Distance from danger is a great thing.


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## treemandan (Jul 14, 2008)

uninformed said:


> what is the "open face" technique
> 
> Serg



Its a way to make a samitch.
Sorry, its the Lymes acting up. but ever time I hear "open face" I get hungry for pastrami on rye. I apologize again.


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## barkies (Jul 14, 2008)

Hey uninformed 
order dent's book from bailey's it will clear up a lot of your questions does not deal a lot with bore cutting but will explain all the relationships between hinge holding wood and backcutting


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## treejunkie13 (Jul 14, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> Did you notice the release power on the bucks?


Smokechase, I guess I don't follow???


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## smokechase II (Jul 14, 2008)

*Jerking motion*

When the buck is just about finished, two different binds force the cut ends apart crisply.

You know, I just didn't describe it very well.

They had video of a few instances where the jump was far enough where a longer bar is obviously a desirable gift of space. You can't always hide behind a tree.

===========

Trivia:

Oregon has no training / testing / certification program for loggers.
Sorry to state the obvious, Anyone watching AxMen could probably deduct that.
My Brother-in-Law puts it typically.
No desk jockey is gonna tell him how to cut a tree. Or similar phrasing with perhaps some variance in wording to make it colorful.

--------------

Here is a recent article in the local paper concerning AxMen complaining about OSHA.

http://www.timberbuysell.com/Community/DisplayNews.asp?id=2896

Note:
"*Browning said two of his loggers have suffered serious accidents since the company started growing in 2003.

We've had two amputations, but still no investigations, he said. Then a TV show comes up and I'm on a job site, and here's our OSHA investigator."*

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Nobody said anything about the investigations being legit.
Just a big Wah about its 'cause we were on TV.


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## HolmenTree (Jul 14, 2008)

Back in the early 90's I felled for a short time for Mac Blo on steep terrain on northern Vancouver Island,B.C. Alot of big cedar and fir,I had no problem getting used to the rain, kind of nice actually ,no bugs, was always cool,some of the most loyal guys I ever worked with and you had the best views on earth. If the union hadn't gone on strike I'd still be there. So it was back to flat Manitoba.

I too have been trained the GOL techniques, but it is not for every region,on steep terrain, tall timber [I mean timber 150' plus] this is a different breed of logging. When I cut those tall trees on the Island you can't see whats up there , there is hungup limbs & wood falling continually from trees you cut a half hour ago. You spend more time looking up for your own safety then concentrating at the stump.
Sure miss that beautiful west cost.

Willard


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## slowp (Jul 15, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> When the buck is just about finished, two different binds force the cut ends apart crisply.
> 
> You know, I just didn't describe it very well.
> 
> ...




Let me describe it. You are bucking a log. Suddenly, KAWHAM, one half pops up. Since you are using a longer bar, you are shaken, but OK. With a short bar, at best, maybe your arms got hit; worst case: your head/face. Kind of a bucking barber chair. I took some pictures of stumps, pistol butts etc. on a steep 90 to 100% slope yesterday. I haven't downloaded them yet, but they are a better example of what goes on here. And it isn't in a clear cut either.


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## snowyman (Jul 15, 2008)

Bushler said:


> That makes sense, cutting for quality v. production cutting. The timber I'm cutting is pretty rough, lots of it goes to the chipper anyway. I cut long logs, (42') which leaves plenty for trim for the saw and peeler logs.
> 
> On a good day I cut, buck, and limb 5 long logger loads. On a bad day I'll cut 3 loads. That's below average for a good cutter, but then, I'm 60 years old, and cut at a reduced speed from my better days.
> 
> ...



Me to, but you're making me feel it, I love flat ground.

As for Axemen, I didn't last 10 minutes.

Uninformed, I found this link here once it might help you, if you search "bore cut" osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/special_techniques/special_techniques.html

And before any of you jump on me, he said he has no experience. 

Oh, and I picked the right arrow.


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## 056 kid (Jul 16, 2008)

When you are cutting bigger hardwoods that have substantial lean it is an indispensable action. weather boring the center of a face out or plunging in behind your hinge to establish the desired amount of holding wood before the tree is even close to committing. A barber chair defense.


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## Humptulips (Jul 17, 2008)

After reading all of this I'm surprised I see no mention of what I see as the most commonly used application.
Around here any more most of the timber being cut is second growth and when cut for tower logging now days it is almost without exception tree length. To do it right it all has to go the same way. The rigging crew has to work into the butts so a tree fell back and coming to it top first just won't work. This means a lot of trees that lean back end up getting pushed over. The old method was to wedge them up tight ,saw them up and then move back and tip another tree into it. Now the cutters will bore the back cut and leave a strap on the back, drop down 12 inches or so and saw in enough to cut off the wood in the strap. The strap cut like this will support the tree from setting back while you move back and tip another tree into it. Saves driving a wedge and retrieving it.
Use to do a lot of bore cutting when bucking but the processors take care of most of that now.


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## smokechase II (Jul 17, 2008)

*Sounds good*

I work with a lot of dead wood but I'll have to try that on something green.

Then maybe move along onto dried out stuff cautiously.
Its probably just fine in most weaker woods as dried they have far less weight.

Thanks for the tip.

(I'm goona try the 12 inch lower strap cut at a slight angle down to perhaps hold the tree a little better. Does that sound reasonable?


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## Bushler (Jul 17, 2008)

I never tried that Hump, but from experience I'd be reluctant to drive a tree without leaving a wedge in the driven tree.

Twice in one year bro and I lost saws by having the driven tree come back over the stump after the driver tree brushed by them instead of hitting them squarely.

Maybe I'm just old and set in my ways.


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## Humptulips (Jul 17, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> I work with a lot of dead wood but I'll have to try that on something green.
> 
> Then maybe move along onto dried out stuff cautiously.
> Its probably just fine in most weaker woods as dried they have far less weight.
> ...



Sounds good. I've used it on smaller trees. Nothing over about 2' and it worked good for me. Easier then using a wedge but I never tried it on anything of size. Some of the strips I see have a lot of them cut that way.


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## buzz sawyer (Jul 21, 2008)

*Good borecut video*

This is pretty much the same presentation I saw at the Paul Bunyan Show. May not be for every tree, but it has it place. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj1d85CLDOQ


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## GASoline71 (Jul 22, 2008)

I have never thought of logging as a "game"...

Funny thing is that those that use this GOL stuff... defend it like some sort of cult religion...

I don't need a protractor, calculator, and a plumb-bob to tell me where to place a backcut or make a facecut...

Use the gunnin' sight (or handlebar) on your saw to make your first cut to the lay... Dog in, and make your second face cut... open face above, humboldt below...

Third cut... bang on the wedges, and over she goes...

Gary


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## 2dogs (Jul 22, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> I have never thought of logging as a "game"...
> 
> Funny thing is that those that use this GOL stuff... defend it like some sort of cult religion...
> 
> ...




Heretic! May flaming 16:1 cleanse your soul.


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