# Underground Utilities stump Grinding



## bcstump (Sep 23, 2012)

Hey guys,

Do any of you have your own utility locators/metal detectors? or do you just use the free one call service. I'm assuming the municipality/city would not be liable if the information was wrong and you dug up a wire. 

Thanx


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## bombdude (Sep 24, 2012)

I use the call service. Put the liability on them. The only down side is the 48 hr wait time.


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## Walt41 (Sep 24, 2012)

Just dial 811 and give them the zip code of the job and property location. Saved many an insurance claim for me over the years. Good idea to meet the flaggers on site if possible because they can give you a depth estimate on close lines.

Not sure what services your area, think yours is *6886


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## bcstump (Sep 24, 2012)

bombdude said:


> I use the call service. Put the liability on them. The only down side is the 48 hr wait time.




That's just it. I'm sure if you read the fine print the liability will always fall back to the contractor. That's why I'm thinking i would rather just do it myself.


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## BillK (Sep 24, 2012)

Call your insurer and make sure you don't have a very common exclusion on your contractors liability policy called the "XCU exclusion" (Explosion, Collapse & UNDERGROUND hazard) before you start work or you could end up with a liability policy that won't do jack$hit for you too.


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## bcstump (Sep 24, 2012)

Interesting point.

Thank you.


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## Frank Boyer (Sep 25, 2012)

In CA there is a heavy fine if you do not call and there is a problem. It used to be $50k plus damages. Better to call.


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## Tundra Man Mike (Sep 25, 2012)

I have done some stumps without calling 811. Usually at a persons house where you can see the overhead electrical, phone, and cable, the propane tank is located out of the danger area and water lines are waaaay deeper in AK than my grinder can go. Remember that the electrical wired to the pump may not be very deep OR marked by the utility company. I also did a job where stumps needed grinding near a shed. The homeowner said that he had electricity to the shed for his avaition fuel pumps. I made him pull up the wiring before grinding and then I was nice and cut a trench for him to rebury them. Sweet tip and no damage.


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## Grouchy old man (Sep 25, 2012)

If you had your own locator would you know how to use it to locate the different utilities? 811 has maps that give them an idea where to look and what for. They can only locate the utilities, they cannot locate other wiring or piping on private property. Lastly, if you don't call them and you damage something it is unlikely your insurance company will cover you regardless of what insurance you have. I believe it's law in every state that you have to call them.


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## Stihlasaurus (Sep 25, 2012)

*Use Both*

I bring a metal detector with me on bids to get an idea of what we have under ground. This helps me bid the job. It also helps me figure if we have metal in the stump to deal with. If done properly, it helps you win the bid against someone who maybe is not as careful.

I am not comfortable with relying only on utility marking because they are sometimes off a foot or two, but call them because that does protect you from fines.


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## sgreanbeans (Sep 25, 2012)

Keep in mind that those locators are not always right. Some are dirt bags and guess at it. I was installing 30 trees at a new home. My brother built the place and I graded and sodded the place.Knew where all the utils where. HO's decided they wanted to add a second gas meter for the in law apartment in the basement. I was not there when they installed it and you would think that they would run it right next to the old one. But was not sure, so I had it located. I drilled a 36" hole with my auger and nailed the line................*30ft *away from the locate. Had a smoke in my mouth and a running machine. Some how I managed to get out of there in a hurry and got he machine shut off before the gas hit the intake. _Look up what happens to a diesel engine when it gets hit with natuural gas, bad things._ Long story short, a bunch of fire trucks and half the city public works and gas company out there. Thinking they where going to try and destroy me. I made sure that they seen the locates and the pics I took before I started, and how far away I was, I was not held liable. Good thing as they told me that there was going to be big charges to someone! The locate company was busted. Guy admitted that he just followed the route of the first meter. Didn't even use the little wand thingy. They got nailed with a huge fine, lost the contract for that area and then had to reimburse for the gas and all the emergency peeps.............Freakin Ouch! Gas Co. switched to that yellow hose and ran it, on purpose, away from the old one, why I dunno, but they did. I also would have guessed the same locate, but this is not a guessing game, why I called for another locate. Point to all this, even tho you have it located, take pics of the site before you break ground, C Y A! 
Getting shot in the face with a 2" hose, with a smoke in your mouth, how I didn't ignite that thing, I will always wonder, but believe it had too much pressure. Tasted real bad! In many ways. I would have liked to beat the snot out of that dude, but he was canned and never came back, manager called me and apologized deeply, knowing that it could have killed me and the crew, not too mention blowing up a bad aas house!


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## Grouchy old man (Sep 25, 2012)

Good advice. 

There is an ongoing case here where a contrtactor hit a gas line and half a condominium complex was blown up. The guy who owned the company was an illegal and didn't have a good attorney so he pled guilty and was about to be sentenced to some years in jail. Then an investigation found that the locating company screwed up so now he's trying to withdraw his guilty plea. One of the problems was that the locating company didn't mark everything out properly because the condo association #####ed about marking up the streets. And the locating company actually listened to them. I can't make this stuff up.


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## Frank Boyer (Sep 25, 2012)

A friend pulled a metal gate post with the winch on his drill rig. It pulled/broke a gas line that was in the concrete around the post. 

I was doing a trail/road widening out in the country, on a 70 acre hilly ranch. About 2-30 minutes after I started, a small plane started circling . After about 20 minutes after the plane circled, a truck pulled up and asked ""What the hell I was doing"? There was a 12" high pressure gas line across the property that the owner didn't know was there. A high pressure gas line rupture will fry everything around it. The PG&E line rupture from a bad weld in N CA 2 years ago killed 8 and took out 38 houses.
A D-8 hit a high pressure line 20+ years ago by Stevens Creek Quarry and fried the D-8 and the operator. Get your locates!!!


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## brokenbudget (Sep 25, 2012)

bcstump said:


> That's just it. I'm sure if you read the fine print the liability will always fall back to the contractor. That's why I'm thinking i would rather just do it myself.



in canada, by law you have to call them. big fine if you get caught. weather or not you have your own tools is irelevant. they have to be called. you can use yor own finders along side of them and work with them to double check, they have no problem with that. it doesn't matter how deep you're planning on digging.


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## bcstump (Sep 26, 2012)

Ontario just passed a law that makes it mandatory. BC is not mandatory. Regardless, your right i will be making the call,but i will be doing my own locating as well. 






brokenbudget said:


> in canada, by law you have to call them. big fine if you get caught. weather or not you have your own tools is irelevant. they have to be called. you can use yor own finders along side of them and work with them to double check, they have no problem with that. it doesn't matter how deep you're planning on digging.


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