# Port A Wrap



## Treecutr (Mar 17, 2010)

Finally caved and bought one like several here have recommended. Oh MY GOD it's great. combinig it with the block up in the tree instead of using the rope wraps on tree is awesome. wish I bought it sooner. To anyone who doesn't have one, get one, goet at least the medium. I got the nickel coated on based on hearing people complain about the black one burning off the paint. Thanks again for the advice.


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## crater (Mar 18, 2010)

Just curious if anyone has tried re-painting theres with an automotive engine paint? And what the result was. 
It's supposed to be high temp. paint


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## treeslayer (Mar 18, 2010)

why paint it? 

My buddy has the aluminum one, we have burned a groove in it. if you learn how to use it, and throw big wood, you won't worry about paint...................


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## treemandan (Mar 18, 2010)

The only thing I worry about painting is my toenails. I get a pic up.


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## Tree Pig (Mar 18, 2010)

treemandan said:


> The only thing I worry about painting is my toenails. I get a pic up.



Dan Dan the Cross Dressing Tree Man?


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## fishercat (Mar 19, 2010)

*got the bigboy.*

I need a small one for up in the tree.no one on the ground seems to know how to use them..


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## Treecutr (Mar 19, 2010)

fishercat said:


> I need a small one for up in the tree.no one on the ground seems to know how to use them..



What, it took me all of 30 seconds to figure it out, and about that to show the groundies. Mastering it on the other hand will take a little longer, but I feel, in my very limited experience with it, that the proper threading of it is most thought work of it. Although I like that idea, but thats just more work for me, and iIgot enough to worry about up there. My ground guy related the locking off of it to tying off a boat, which he was right, just a matter of knowing how many wraps, and how to let it run I guess.

Oh by the way, getting tired of pine this month, already. Havn't done any hardwood in a while.


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## fishercat (Mar 20, 2010)

*I agree...........*

it's not difficult.

beats me why the can't LET IT RUN!


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## Lauritz (Mar 21, 2010)

Brought one of these myself a few months back the groundies love it as do I. alot easier,quicker and safer than wraps on trunk .One of those things you put off and then when you get it ,you wish you had earlier.Hows the work up there guys coming back I hope.


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## Treecutr (Mar 21, 2010)

Lauritz said:


> Brought one of these myself a few months back the groundies love it as do I. alot easier,quicker and safer than wraps on trunk .One of those things you put off and then when you get it ,you wish you had earlier.Hows the work up there guys coming back I hope.



Been busy, noting big though. Lot of simplier trees, damn spruce, hemlock, and pine. No big money jobs though.


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## Lauritz (Mar 21, 2010)

small jobs are better than no jobs chin up guys it will came back ,anyway highly reccommend the porta wrap, great bit of kit.


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## lone wolf (Mar 21, 2010)

fishercat said:


> I need a small one for up in the tree.no one on the ground seems to know how to use them..



god help you.


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## lone wolf (Mar 21, 2010)

Treecutr said:


> What, it took me all of 30 seconds to figure it out, and about that to show the groundies. Mastering it on the other hand will take a little longer, but I feel, in my very limited experience with it, that the proper threading of it is most thought work of it. Although I like that idea, but thats just more work for me, and iIgot enough to worry about up there. My ground guy related the locking off of it to tying off a boat, which he was right, just a matter of knowing how many wraps, and how to let it run I guess.
> 
> Oh by the way, getting tired of pine this month, already. Havn't done any hardwood in a while.



nice to have all this work from the snow same here all pine.


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## Treecutr (Mar 21, 2010)

While taking down 2 spruce ( dead ), and a small dead elm, got 2 more jobs to look at, gues what............................PINE! But it's money.


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## pdqdl (Mar 21, 2010)

fishercat said:


> it's not difficult.
> 
> beats me why the can't LET IT RUN!



I started a thread on that topic a while back...how to train groundies to let it run. My conclusion: nobody knows how to train them, including myself. Just cuss and yell until they get it right.

It's mostly in the grip on the rope: most guys let it run for a while, then squeeze the rope...YANK! If you can teach them to squeeze with 1 finger, 2-, 3- then a full grip, it might work. Make sure they are wearing gloves to eliminate the fear of burns.


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## Treecutr (Mar 22, 2010)

One of my guys has it pretty good, although I took a pretty good shakin yesterday takin the top out of a spruce.


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## lone wolf (Mar 22, 2010)

how hard can it be to teach them its either they are:monkey: or you are not taking the time to teach them repetition and an animal can learn.


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## fishercat (Mar 22, 2010)

*it's either they won't let it run..............*

or they want to put three or four wraps on every little branch.


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## lone wolf (Mar 22, 2010)

well then the climber and leader can just tell them how many wraps to take for each cut, then you still have the problem of letting it run at the right time ,how much experience do the groundies have that you are having trouble with?


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## fishercat (Mar 22, 2010)

*I am starting to think they have little to no experience with trees or saws.*



lone wolf said:


> well then the climber and leader can just tell them how many wraps to take for each cut, then you still have the problem of letting it run at the right time ,how much experience do the groundies have that you are having trouble with?



One guy I work with has a few years but he has always worked with hacks before and he worries about everything. He has to over do everything.He thinks it safer to over do it.

I guess I am going to have to start throwing steel caribiners again.


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## Wishie22 (Mar 25, 2010)

fishercat said:


> One guy I work with has a few years but he has always worked with hacks before and he worries about everything. He has to over do everything.He thinks it safer to over do it.
> 
> I guess I am going to have to start throwing steel caribiners again.



Funny reading all this. Opposite problem when working the ground, gritting my teeth and shake my head when ever I see the rope being shock loaded on the jobs. 

I was instructed on a 110'+ tall 5'+ diameter red oak, whole tree was shock loaded . You know how much a 20' piece of 4' diameter red oak weighs, how many times can you shock load a bull 3/4 bull rope. I know it is wrong but if that is what the guy up top wants (fingers indicate amount of wraps), then it is what it is (I make sure everyone is at a safe distance).

We were both questioned by the company owner why this morning job took so long. The home owner had complimented to him how hard we had worked getting the job done so fast, (made sure we knew about the compliment as well). Two guys trimming 3 trees and taking out 4 other trees (2-1/2' to 3-1/2' beach and red oaks two of which had large branches over the house) in less than 3 hours with a 60' bucket truck. 

Truck was maxed and sending down 40' limbs (shocked). Was questioned after letting a piece of the trunk run, but bucket operator agreed. I explained why and pointed out stressed/frayed areas on the 3/4 bull rope being used.


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## tree md (Mar 25, 2010)

Wishie22 said:


> Funny reading all this. Opposite problem when working the ground, gritting my teeth and shake my head when ever I see the rope being shock loaded on the jobs.
> 
> I was instructed on a 110'+ tall 5'+ diameter red oak, whole tree was shock loaded . You know how much a 20' piece of 4' diameter red oak weighs, how many times can you shock load a bull 3/4 bull rope. I know it is wrong but if that is what the guy up top wants (fingers indicate amount of wraps), then it is what it is (I make sure everyone is at a safe distance).
> 
> ...



May I ask why the climber is shock loading the large limbs? What, he just don't know any better?

And how are 110'+ tall 5'+ diameter red oak, whole trees being shock loaded? Is the climber hanging whole trees?

I'm just curious.


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## lone wolf (Mar 26, 2010)

tree md said:


> May I ask why the climber is shock loading the large limbs? What, he just don't know any better?
> 
> And how are 110'+ tall 5'+ diameter red oak, whole trees being shock loaded? Is the climber hanging whole trees?
> 
> I'm just curious.



well here my answer to your problem put him in your position a few times till he gets it ,stop cutting real large pieces cause he cant handle it , or find a better guy and pay him justly.


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## Wishie22 (Mar 26, 2010)

tree md said:


> May I ask why the climber is shock loading the large limbs? What, he just don't know any better?


 Yesterday he was worried about the branch hitting the house or boom, truck fully extended directly under fall zone. He knows about the running the wood. I have seen him run wood when he worked the ropes. The piece I ran was on the trunk of one of the trees being removed away from the truck. After we talked about the right way he agrees that there is a time to let wood run and not. Something that we will work on when we work together.





tree md said:


> And how are 110'+ tall 5'+ diameter red oak, whole trees being shock loaded? Is the climber hanging whole trees?
> 
> I'm just curious.


 "You know how much a 20' piece of 4' diameter red oak weighs, how many times can you shock load a bull 3/4 bull rope." stated earlier. The other climber/bucket operator for this company has everything shock loaded. Was the one who had taken down the first red oak I used a port-a-wrap on, heck of a way to learn. Shock loading tops of trees that cant be reached when a bucket is maxed.

The biggest problem is the owner of the company pushing for the work to be completed. We did what I listed above in less than three hours and we were told we could have done it faster. I would think this would have been a days work for two guys and a bucket. 

If you have any further questions, I will check later. Have to get ready weather broke and have some work for a logger to do this afternoon.


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## D Mc (Mar 26, 2010)

For those of you in the market for a new small but stout lowering device, don't overlook the RC 1000 and RC2000 designed by Reg Coates and manufactured by Stein. They should be available soon.

Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ9UzjBw3GM


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## tree md (Mar 26, 2010)

Wishie22 said:


> Yesterday he was worried about the branch hitting the house or boom, truck fully extended directly under fall zone. He knows about the running the wood. I have seen him run wood when he worked the ropes. The piece I ran was on the trunk of one of the trees being removed away from the truck. After we talked about the right way he agrees that there is a time to let wood run and not. Something that we will work on when we work together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, I gotcha. Sounds like your climber needs to learn how to better plan out his cuts and removals. I have not seen many 48" 20' chunks of Red Oak. That would be a massive tree for these parts and I don't know anyone who would try to rig something that big at 180 degrees. That log would be over 15K pounds. I have tip tied and lowered whole trees that size but there is very little shock involved in that. I have never seen anyone block pieces that big and don't know of anyone who would attempt to do so. 

Stay safe!


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## pdqdl (Mar 26, 2010)

I tried lowering a cottonwood chunk 1/2 that size many years ago. No friction devices, we were wrapped around the trunk, using a natural crotch to lower it.

The log fell a small distance, straightened up until the rope got tight and it was pointing straight down (missing the house, thank goodness!), then snapped the 3/4" rope with a "ping!" sort of sound, and kept going to earth, almost without slowing down. Only the wooden fence and the rope paid the price for our foolish attempt, so it could have been worse.

I'll never rig another log that big again. I certainly wouldn't try a 20' x 4' log. Quite frankly, I'd like to see the tree that could shed a log that big and still catch it up in the air. 

I suspect somebody's tape measure got left back at the shop...


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## JayD (Mar 26, 2010)

Most times when you hear about a lowering accident with the porty of any other lowering device, they usually say " I took too much off in one time" you need to know your limitations and realistically assess the amount of weight you are trying to control.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 26, 2010)

JayD said:


> Most times when you hear about a lowering accident with the porty of any other lowering device, they usually say " I took too much off in one time" you need to know your limitations and realistically assess the amount of weight you are trying to control.



JayD!, Are you the guy guy in the cartoon?
Jeff


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## JayD (Mar 26, 2010)

Yes, I'm in the comic. however it does not really look like me..


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 26, 2010)

Sorry,You are right, I did not see an old man behind an old stumper looking tired. So you are right.
Your freind, Jeff


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## JayD (Mar 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Sorry,You are right, I did not see an old man behind an old stumper looking tired. So you are right.
> Your freind, Jeff



Jeff get your fact right, me using that stump grinder was not in any of the comics, but you were right about being tired that was my tenth stump on that day with that little machine.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 26, 2010)

JayD said:


> Jeff get your fact right, me using that stump grinder was not in any of the comics, but you were right about being tired that was my tenth stump on that day with that little machine.



That's what I would say!
Jeff


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## EdenT (Mar 31, 2010)

Gee whizz, JayD is repped up and raring to go. Gee after what you had to say about AS on that other site I'm surprised to see you back so soon!

Your good friend
Cuppa!


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## Brush Hog (Mar 31, 2010)

I usually let it run to clear climber then gently close hands to slow it down gradually. Although sometimes I get a bit aggressive on slowing it down  If tree will act as a blocker may not run it(if climber is comfortable with that) but big chunks I take extra care in running/slowing down. No need to shake a climber outta the tree.


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## tree MDS (Mar 31, 2010)

EdenT said:


> Gee whizz, JayD is repped up and raring to go. Gee after what you had to say about AS on that other site I'm surprised to see you back so soon!
> 
> Your good friend
> Cuppa!



"Repped up and raring to go". hahahah


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## JayD (Mar 31, 2010)

EdenT said:


> Gee whizz, JayD is repped up and raring to go. Gee after what you had to say about AS on that other site I'm surprised to see you back so soon!
> 
> Your good friend
> Cuppa!



What ever floats your boat.
Have a nice day.


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## JayD (Mar 31, 2010)

*Back on Topic.*

I have a couple of these friction devices all home made,like many others on this site. One small one for 13mm rope and one for the larger 20mm rope they both work great providing you have some one who knows how to work them properly so you don't go for a ride in the tree..lol.

Having said that they are no match for GRCS and other devices with lifting capacity built in. However for the amount you pay for them they are a great tool at an entry level for lowering loads from the tree to the ground with control.


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## EdenT (Apr 1, 2010)

JayD said:


> What ever floats your boat.
> Have a nice day.



Cheers JayD,

To tell you the truth my boat is being floated by you proving me wrong. I said earlier that you never made any positive contributions, and here you are doing just that. Please accept my apology. My earlier comment (you quoted) was not intended to offend either.

Your good friend
Cuppa!


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## Mark Janet (Apr 1, 2010)

*RE ort A Wrap*

I try for repaint but after one month its not work and its sees original dirty. Then i never try for this.


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## lone wolf (Apr 4, 2010)

hey I use a figure 8 when there is no trees to wrap around and this puts a lot of twists in the rope will a porta wrap do the same or help, is it a huge improvement over the figure 8 what say you guys worth getting or same as figure 8?


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## JayD (Apr 4, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> hey I use a figure 8 when there is no trees to wrap around and this puts a lot of twists in the rope will a porta wrap do the same or help, is it a huge improvement over the figure 8 what say you guys worth getting or same as figure 8?



Definitely worth buying the porty, better smoother control, you wont look back. 

Mount the porty to the tree around waist height and stand right back out of the drop zone while lowering, just start with small sections first until you can judge how many wraps it will take to smoothly lower your branch to the ground.


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## pdqdl (Apr 4, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> hey I use a figure 8 when there is no trees to wrap around and this puts a lot of twists in the rope will a porta wrap do the same or help, is it a huge improvement over the figure 8 what say you guys worth getting or same as figure 8?



Some years back I had a great idea to use a figure 8 to catch a log coming off a spar. It was only about 5' long, but it was also about 4' in diameter. At the time, I didn't own a block & sling, and I didn't own a port-a-wrap. It was over a 30" tall stone wall that was very old, the mortar was crumbling, so I had to catch every chunk.

The rope broke where it entered the figure 8. Yes, I had to fix the wall. Fortunately, I am not too bad at that kind of work, either.

I don't recommend a figure 8 for heavy loads. The rope makes too sharp a bend around the bar, and the rope tears apart. By the way, my figure 8 was unblemished by the incident.


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## lone wolf (Apr 5, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> Some years back I had a great idea to use a figure 8 to catch a log coming off a spar. It was only about 5' long, but it was also about 4' in diameter. At the time, I didn't own a block & sling, and I didn't own a port-a-wrap. It was over a 30" tall stone wall that was very old, the mortar was crumbling, so I had to catch every chunk.
> 
> The rope broke where it entered the figure 8. Yes, I had to fix the wall. Fortunately, I am not too bad at that kind of work, either.
> 
> I don't recommend a figure 8 for heavy loads. The rope makes too sharp a bend around the bar, and the rope tears apart. By the way, my figure 8 was unblemished by the incident.



well guess that was a heavy one huh? does the porta wrap put less twists in the rope?


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## pdqdl (Apr 5, 2010)

I have never seen any twists concentrated at our port-a-wrap, and I don't recall ever hearing about anyone else having that problem, either.

I don't use my figure 8 for rappelling out of the tree, I'm not in that big of a hurry to get back to the ground. So I have never seen the twisting that others often refer to while using the F8.

I suspect that an f8 does not put any twists into a braided rope. I believe that it might be concentrating the twists down the rope until they become a problem. Since I store my ropes in bags or buckets, they remain pretty free of twists and kinks.


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## D Mc (Apr 5, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> hey I use a figure 8 when there is no trees to wrap around and this puts a lot of twists in the rope will a porta wrap do the same or help, is it a huge improvement over the figure 8 what say you guys worth getting or same as figure 8?



The portawrap is a huge improvement over the f8. With its larger diameter it will be easier to control and produce less rope twist. The f8 is only suited for very small lowering activities and it is not much better than a munter hitch on a carabiner. 

Twist is a function of the direction of the wraps and their entry and exit angles. Larger diameters, like a strap on bollard, will reduce the tendency to twist, but still not totally remove it. If your lowering line is long, and it never straightens out during the lowering process, it is best to reverse wraps with each piece lowered to neutralize this tendency.

This hockling will occur with double braids but is absolutely awful with 3 strand. 

Dave


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## lone wolf (Apr 5, 2010)

D Mc said:


> The portawrap is a huge improvement over the f8. With its larger diameter it will be easier to control and produce less rope twist. The f8 is only suited for very small lowering activities and it is not much better than a munter hitch on a carabiner.
> 
> Twist is a function of the direction of the wraps and their entry and exit angles. Larger diameters, like a strap on bollard, will reduce the tendency to twist, but still not totally remove it. If your lowering line is long, and it never straightens out during the lowering process, it is best to reverse wraps with each piece lowered to neutralize this tendency.
> 
> ...


good info


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## pdqdl (Apr 5, 2010)

Three strand is a whole different game than braided, and it doesn't matter how you wrap it on any tool. It will either try to unwind when loaded, or twist back up when unloaded. You end up concentrating the twists at one end, and hockling occurs.

As the rope is loaded with weight, it will unwind itself as it feeds into a friction device. This is because the strand twists are balanced against the counter-twists between the strands. When loaded with additional weight, the rope stretches, and different forces are applied to the individual strands than prior to loading, and the rope unwinds a bit. Pick up a heavy log with a single rope of 3 strand, and you will see it begin to spin in the air as the rope unwinds.

I do not believe there is any inherent twist in most braided ropes, and as such they don't tend to twist up. If you rope handling activities, such as coiling and uncoiling are causing the introduction of twists in the rope, you can bet that both a figure 8 or a portawrap will squeeze the twists down to the unloaded end of the rope.

Most people that use a port-a-wrap don't use all their rope to the end, so any twists introduced while wrapping the POW are canceled when it is un-wrapped. Not only that, but we have never needed more than 3 wraps, which doesn't seem like enough twists to be a problem.

Even wire rope unwinds some when suspending a heavy load on a single line, although I have never seen it hockle. The effect seems to be cancelled when using multiple blocks.


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## lone wolf (Apr 6, 2010)

is this the best one to get?http://www.sherrilltree.com/Profess...evices/New-Portawrap-IV-Large-Stainless-Steel


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## tree MDS (Apr 6, 2010)

Thats a mistake I think. Thats the price for the large steel one - which I recommend getting. The stainless jobber is $199 in the new sherrill cat. I'm looking at right now. I think the stainless is just another new way for them to bilk us outta more ducketts.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 6, 2010)

I have the big steel one and a loopie on it. I use it up in the tree and on the ground I like its large caliber bend seems to be better on my ropes. I use three strand when doing natural crotch stuff for its speed and nothing is better naturally rigged imo. I use stabil braid 3/4 for the heavy stuff but getting a groundie to learn is a never ending process until they make us a remote controlled robot lmfao


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 6, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Thats a mistake I think. Thats the price for the large steel one - which I recommend getting. The stainless jobber is $199 in the new sherrill cat. I'm looking at right now. I think the stainless is just another new way for them to bilk us outta more ducketts.



There was an ad at the top of this site yesterday showing "Free Upgrade to Stainless Steel" for the Porta-Wrap IV from Sherrill... The price is $20 under last year's price for the Porta-Wrap III.

I might have to drive to Greensboro this afternoon and get another one!


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## pdqdl (Apr 6, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> is this the best one to get?http://www.sherrilltree.com/Profess...evices/New-Portawrap-IV-Large-Stainless-Steel



That would be the cat's meow if done in stainless. The nickle plate is just as good. Mine is 5 years old, it looks like it just came off the shelf.

I don't recommend painted versions.


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## CUCV (Apr 6, 2010)

*Looking for advice*

I am fairly new to lowering and have been using a porta-wrap occasionally for around 2 year. The other day while taking down the log wood on a decent size tree the climber got 2 pretty good jolts. As we got closer to the ground I can only let it run for so long and was stopping the pieces just a few feet or inches from the ground (as gradual as possible). The first time the log smacked the tree with 2 wraps on a 3/4 bull rope and pinched the rope. The second time we had 3 wraps on and the porta-wrap and the block of wood smacked the trunk just feet above the ground giving the climber one hell of a jolt. In both situations I feel like we had the correct number of wraps. Do you guys have any advise for situations when you don't have much room to let it run?


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## ropensaddle (Apr 6, 2010)

CUCV said:


> I am fairly new to lowering and have been using a porta-wrap occasionally for around 2 year. The other day while taking down the log wood on a decent size tree the climber got 2 pretty good jolts. As we got closer to the ground I can only let it run for so long and was stopping the pieces just a few feet or inches from the ground (as gradual as possible). The first time the log smacked the tree with 2 wraps on a 3/4 bull rope and pinched the rope. The second time we had 3 wraps on and the porta-wrap and the block of wood smacked the trunk just feet above the ground giving the climber one hell of a jolt. In both situations I feel like we had the correct number of wraps. Do you guys have any advise for situations when you don't have much room to let it run?



Well my advise is not to you in limited run heavy wood I always cut and throw the chunks.


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## tree md (Apr 6, 2010)

Usually by the time I get down that far I can just drop the spar or "throw the pole" as we call it. I'll roll a log out in the drop zone to distribute the weight and force so it doesn't tear the ground up as bad. If it has to be kept immaculate I'll either find a rig point to lower the spar and keep it from crashing or cut smaller pieces and lower them or chuck them into a brush pile. I have heard of some even using foam pads to avoid ground damage.


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## CUCV (Apr 6, 2010)

Thanks for the advice, keep it coming. It's basically stuff we do as well. I think I might set up a video camera next time we are in a similar situation so I can see what I do and what I could change. We knew we were pushing it and it was a go place to try taking bigger pieces.


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## treemandan (Apr 6, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Thats a mistake I think. Thats the price for the large steel one - which I recommend getting. The stainless jobber is $199 in the new sherrill cat. I'm looking at right now. I think the stainless is just another new way for them to bilk us outta more ducketts.



Is the load rating higher for stainless?
Here is a another situation where the porty shines:







One end is hooked to a big loader and the other a big log, in the middle is Mr. McPorty. It makes it easy to adjust the lentgh of the pull line as needed.


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 6, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Well my advise is not to you in limited run heavy wood I always cut and throw the chunks.



Damn good answer! Cant rep yet!
Jeff


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## treemandan (Apr 6, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Well my advise is not to you in limited run heavy wood I always cut and throw the chunks.



Well sometimes you can't and you have to take the jolt. A rigid mount bollard relieves some of the pain and the right fingers on the rope help a lot too.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 6, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Well sometimes you can't and you have to take the jolt. A rigid mount bollard relieves some of the pain and the right fingers on the rope help a lot too.



I don't follow why would you have to take the jolt? I agree on the rest and so need a crane


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## Treecutr (Apr 7, 2010)

Think I mentioned I bought the nickel one. Well my rope is turning grey from it where I have run it through the most. I am guessing this isnt going to hurt the rope any??

Also there was talk of twisting. I have a new Dynasorb rope, and it's twisted a decent bit, but I believe it to be from the chunks spinning while descending, and not the porty.


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## westernMA_Mike (Apr 7, 2010)

Treecutr said:


> Think I mentioned I bought the nickel one. Well my rope is turning grey from it where I have run it through the most. I am guessing this isnt going to hurt the rope any??
> 
> Also there was talk of twisting. I have a new Dynasorb rope, and it's twisted a decent bit, but I believe it to be from the chunks spinning while descending, and not the porty.




Is it maybe from the points where it "pinches" through the port? Pretty sure it's the "guts" of the rope that are twisting; can distinctly feel the location in there that it's twisting. What's up "Treecutr".


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## Wishie22 (Apr 7, 2010)

We lay out the rope to full length before it is wrapped in the portawrap to prevent tangles, snags, etc. as the rope is being run through the portawap and lowering intended objects. The process is done for each piece for safety reasons, and also gets any twists out at that time.

If there is a better way please share.


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 8, 2010)

Wishie22 said:


> We lay out the rope to full length before it is wrapped in the portawrap to prevent tangles, snags, etc. as the rope is being run through the portawap and lowering intended objects. The process is done for each piece for safety reasons, and also gets any twists out at that time.
> 
> If there is a better way please share.



We just keep our ropes flaked into rope bags, sitting nearby where they are used. It keeps them off the ground, which prevents them being stepped on, having wood land on them, and being drug across the dirt and debris. I have seen too many groundies get wrapped up in rope laid out on the ground as they are moving brush and wood while a piece is being lowered. Based on what I've seen, I would think that laying the rope out on the ground is more of a safety risk than benefit.


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## westernMA_Mike (Apr 8, 2010)

2FatGuys said:


> We just keep our ropes flaked into rope bags, sitting nearby where they are used. It keeps them off the ground, which prevents them being stepped on, having wood land on them, and being drug across the dirt and debris. I have seen too many groundies get wrapped up in rope laid out on the ground as they are moving brush and wood while a piece is being lowered. Based on what I've seen, I would think that laying the rope out on the ground is more of a safety risk than benefit.



Spending most of my time on the ground, I have to say that the more rope that's in the bag and not on the ground, the better. Nothing more frustrating than using one hand one the rope, one hand to guide the branch or log down and then trying to figure out how to quickly get your leg unwrapped from the rope that just got tangled around it!


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 8, 2010)

westernMA_Mike said:


> Spending most of my time on the ground, I have to say that the more rope that's in the bag and not on the ground, the better. Nothing more frustrating than using one hand one the rope, one hand to guide the branch or log down and then trying to figure out how to quickly get your leg unwrapped from the rope that just got tangled around it!



It's worse for those of us in the tree! We have to wait for the groundies to untangle themsleves, the brush and the tools from the ropes when they get dragged out. It seems like any time we don't enforce the "flake ropes into bags when not actually in use" rule, we end up with a rope cut, or scuffed, or someone tripping. It takes very little time to take care of the equipment properly!


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## westernMA_Mike (Apr 8, 2010)

2FatGuys said:


> It's worse for those of us in the tree! We have to wait for the groundies to untangle themsleves, the brush and the tools from the ropes when they get dragged out. It seems like any time we don't enforce the "flake ropes into bags when not actually in use" rule, we end up with a rope cut, or scuffed, or someone tripping. It takes very little time to take care of the equipment properly!



I agree 100%. Everything I wrote about the ropes on the ground is a reflection of the effort I put into trying to facilitate what is happening in the tree. I want the ground clear so I can do my job better/faster which helps me help him.


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## lone wolf (Apr 9, 2010)

whats the proper way to attach the porta wrap to a sling?


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 9, 2010)

Serious? The longer loop gets tied to the tree. Sometimes I use a caribiner, but most of the time I use a sling.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 9, 2010)

Sorry, mis-read your post, my bad.
Jeff


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## lone wolf (Apr 9, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Serious? The longer loop gets tied to the tree. Sometimes I use a caribiner, but most of the time I use a sling.
> Jeff



for instance with a one eye sling would it be correct to use a cow hitch then connect with a carabiner?


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 9, 2010)

Yeah, you could, or various others. Depends on the length of your sling. Not fond of the timber hitch, but if my sling is long enough, I like a clove hitch with a half hitch, the half hitch being on top of the clove. So the half then the clove. Always works great. Never rides up the trunk is what I like and the ease of un-tying.
Jeff


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 9, 2010)

Look at the following link:

http://www.wesspur.com/Info/portawrap-instructions.html

It's on a site sponsor's website. I would NEVER use a caribeaner to hold the Porty... it gets subjected to heavy loads and the occasional (almost always) dynamic loading. There are proper ways to use the various adjustable slings without introducing a weak link....

Edit: We usually use our adjustable Whoopie sling as is shown here:

http://www.wesspur.com/Slings/adjustable-slings.html


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 9, 2010)

I will use a caribiner when under 200lbs just for the quick release between cuts. But, yeah, if your doing big wood, no caribiner.
Jeff


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## treemandan (Apr 9, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I don't follow why would you have to take the jolt? I agree on the rest and so need a crane



When you take out 20 feet of a 40 foot tree? When you have to block down large blocks over the patio?
I guess I should also say that one should know how to take a jolt.


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## treemandan (Apr 9, 2010)

JayD said:


> Jeff get your fact right, me using that stump grinder was not in any of the comics, but you were right about being tired that was my tenth stump on that day with that little machine.



I hear ya!


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## treemandan (Apr 9, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Yeah, you could, or various others. Depends on the length of your sling. Not fond of the timber hitch, but if my sling is long enough, I like a clove hitch with a half hitch, the half hitch being on top of the clove. So the half then the clove. Always works great. Never rides up the trunk is what I like and the ease of un-tying.
> Jeff



What is your beef with the timber hitch? Just curious, i promise I won't call you names or insult your family or mail you a bomb.

With an eye I just girth it to the porty, no beener. I do use the timber hitch and cow myself.


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## lone wolf (Apr 9, 2010)

2FatGuys said:


> Look at the following link:
> 
> http://www.wesspur.com/Info/portawrap-instructions.html
> 
> ...


would a one eye sling work as well? and if so what knot?


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## Treecutr (Apr 12, 2010)

westernMA_Mike said:


> Is it maybe from the points where it "pinches" through the port? Pretty sure it's the "guts" of the rope that are twisting; can distinctly feel the location in there that it's twisting. What's up "Treecutr".



Ok, my gound guy is freaked out that he screwed up, if you look at the directions to porty it shows right way and wrong way to run rope. if you do run it the wrong way, step 12a
http://wesspur.com/images/pdfs/601INST.pdf

It says could bind rope, does that necessarily mean it ruins the rope if done wrong. I think he may ahve done it on a couple jobs, but not sure.


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 12, 2010)

treemandan said:


> What is your beef with the timber hitch? Just curious, i promise I won't call you names or insult your family or mail you a bomb.
> 
> With an eye I just girth it to the porty, no beener. I do use the timber hitch and cow myself.



LOL you funny bastard! (funnin) I just dont trust it with heavy loads. I dont mind using a beener for loads under 200lbs. I just see good results with a clove hitch and then a half hitch on the porty.Never climbs up and easy release.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 12, 2010)

Treecutr said:


> Ok, my gound guy is freaked out that he screwed up, if you look at the directions to porty it shows right way and wrong way to run rope. if you do run it the wrong way, step 12a
> http://wesspur.com/images/pdfs/601INST.pdf
> 
> It says could bind rope, does that necessarily mean it ruins the rope if done wrong. I think he may ahve done it on a couple jobs, but not sure.



If he did, check your rope.
Jeff


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## lone wolf (Apr 12, 2010)

would a cow hitch work with amsteel or pull out?


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## pdqdl (Apr 13, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> would a one eye sling work as well? and if so what knot?



That is the only kind I own, so far. Tie it on with a timber or stilson hitch, as posted elsewhere.

I plan on getting a whoopie for up in the tree. It's not real convenient to adjust a timber on a big spar.


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## lone wolf (Apr 13, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> That is the only kind I own, so far. Tie it on with a timber or stilson hitch, as posted elsewhere.
> 
> I plan on getting a whoopie for up in the tree. It's not real convenient to adjust a timber on a big spar.



I just got an amsteel one eye sling have always used tenex which always held the knots I use a cow hitch no problems.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 13, 2010)

treemandan said:


> When you take out 20 feet of a 40 foot tree? When you have to block down large blocks over the patio?
> I guess I should also say that one should know how to take a jolt.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, I prefer to take no jolts anymore my bones are getting older:monkey:


treemandan said:


> I hear ya!


think how tired he would have been at 127 stumps which was my best day of grinding with my stumper!


treemandan said:


> What is your beef with the timber hitch? Just curious, i promise I won't call you names or insult your family or mail you a bomb.
> 
> With an eye I just girth it to the porty, no beener. I do use the timber hitch and cow myself.


I knew you liked cows


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## Treecutr (Apr 13, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> If he did, check your rope.
> Jeff



Jeff, it appears fine, there is some twisting in it, but I feel confident it's from the pieces spinning, as we had the block rigged back a ways, so the pieces on the lst job were swinning quite a bit, especially after on end sometimes hit another part of tree, but it's doens't feel like rope is damaged inside. It's Dynasorb rope, and designed to return to original shape time after time. What might I look for that I'm not already looking for?


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## ApexTreeService (Apr 16, 2010)

So, can anyone answer why your still using heavy STATIC bull rope????? Dan Osman jumped 1100 feet off a cliff with nothing more than a rock climbers harness, and a less than 1/2 inch standard "DYNAMIC" climbing line that absorbed the shock. Called rope jumping. Look it up. He also jumped off many bridges, rock formations, and other high places with him, harness, and climbing line, albeit DYNAMIC. Do bungee jumpers use aircraft steel cable, or rubber bands???

Finally, the arborist outlet stores are now carrying actual DYNAMIC (shock absorbing) lowering/rigging line made specifically for taking down trees. Google Polydyne. 

The first rope I bought for jobs 7 years ago when I was green was a retired DYNAMIC climbing line. Never once broke. I now use larger diameter DYNAMIC line, 1/2 inch and up. 

Gee, what's going to hurt more, a rubber band, or a steel cable. Climbers fall hundreds of feet on less than 1/2 inch rope, and never has a rope broken due to overload.

GET A DYNAMIC LINE.


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 16, 2010)

ApexTreeService said:


> ...Dan Osman jumped 1100 feet off a cliff with nothing more than a rock climbers harness, and a less than 1/2 inch standard "DYNAMIC" climbing line that absorbed the shock....



Dan Osman DIED doing that crap....

"Look it up."

This is a thread about using a very good tool for lowering wood, not another "Dan's The Man" thread. That stupidity has been debated here enough... use the search feature.


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## lone wolf (Apr 16, 2010)

2FatGuys said:


> Dan Osman DIED doing that crap....
> 
> "Look it up."
> 
> This is a thread about using a very good tool for lowering wood, not another "Dan's The Man" thread. That stupidity has been debated here enough... use the search feature.



yes who does that ?anyone here?


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## ApexTreeService (Apr 16, 2010)

2FatGuys said:


> Dan Osman DIED doing that crap....
> 
> "Look it up."
> 
> This is a thread about using a very good tool for lowering wood, not another "Dan's The Man" thread. That stupidity has been debated here enough... use the search feature.



Not because the rope was over loaded. His lines crossed and melted the rope. That's Black Diamonds official report after examining rope. 

I was just asking why static lines are even used. I personally use dynamic.


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 16, 2010)

*Answer.*



ApexTreeService said:


> So, can anyone answer why your still using heavy STATIC bull rope????? Dan Osman jumped 1100 feet off a cliff with nothing more than a rock climbers harness, and a less than 1/2 inch standard "DYNAMIC" climbing line that absorbed the shock. Called rope jumping. Look it up. He also jumped off many bridges, rock formations, and other high places with him, harness, and climbing line, albeit DYNAMIC. Do bungee jumpers use aircraft steel cable, or rubber bands???
> 
> Finally, the arborist outlet stores are now carrying actual DYNAMIC (shock absorbing) lowering/rigging line made specifically for taking down trees. Google Polydyne.
> 
> ...



Dude you cannot be a tree guy and not know why Static has advantages. Dynamic and Static are applied to the work. If I gotta rig a 400lb. round of euc over a Coy Pond, At 32" dbh and chucking logs that heavy and close to the target, between homes, landscpe, etc...., Is this "the dynamic rope jump your life away" thread? I was gonna say " go back to your Rocks", but I caught myself.
Jeff


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## ApexTreeService (Apr 17, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dude you cannot be a tree guy and not know why Static has advantages. Dynamic and Static are applied to the work. If I gotta rig a 400lb. round of euc over a Coy Pond, At 32" dbh and chucking logs that heavy and close to the target, between homes, landscpe, etc...., Is this "the dynamic rope jump your life away" thread? I was gonna say " go back to your Rocks", but I caught myself.
> Jeff




Well I barely made out what ya said, brush up on the English. Yeah yeah, we all know no stretch means it's not going to stretch into the roof, and of course static is best to climb on cause it doesn't absorb your energy, and for lifting too, for the same reason.

I just prefer the dynamic line for most simple stuff cause it's a shock absorber. I've read some stuff and seen youtube vids of static bull ropes of heavy gauge snapping.

I meant besides the obvious.


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## lone wolf (Apr 17, 2010)

ApexTreeService said:


> Well I barely made out what ya said, brush up on the English. Yeah yeah, we all know no stretch means it's not going to stretch into the roof, and of course static is best to climb on cause it doesn't absorb your energy, and for lifting too, for the same reason.
> 
> I just prefer the dynamic line for most simple stuff cause it's a shock absorber. I've read some stuff and seen youtube vids of static bull ropes of heavy gauge snapping.
> 
> I meant besides the obvious.



well how do the two compare in your experience specifically?


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## ApexTreeService (Apr 26, 2010)

Well dynamic rope is a double braid, polyester jacket over a nylon core. The nylon core stretches quite a bit to mitigate shock absorption. Finally, rope companies supplying arborists are now offering dynamic ropes much like a rock climbers life line. Yale Polydyne, Husky II off of Wes Spur, Dynasorb off of Sherrill Tree. In another example, Jamie Goddard of Yale Cordage recently demonstrated on video a drop test using a 220-pound weight tethered first with dynamic (elastic) line and then with static (nonelastic) line. Tensile strength of the dynamic line was 3 tons, while the static line was 10 tons. The dynamic line arrested the weight six times without failure, while the static line snapped on the first drop. A dynamic line 1/3 the strength of a static line stopped a 220 lb weight 6 times, while the 3x stronger static rope could not stop it once. Rock climbers (such as Dan Osman) know what they are doing. Much more so than tree climbers. If any of you doubt that, just watch all of Dan Osman's videos on Youtube. Rock climbing/rope jumping is much more technical than what we do. That's why they use dynamic line for a life line, and say never should a static line be used for fall arrest, BECAUSE IT WILL SNAP. Never, in the history of rock climbing has a dynamic climbing line meant for life support snapped while arresting the fall of a human (and multiple humans). On the other hand, I can go on youtube right now and watch a video of a large diameter static bull rope snapping from being shock loaded with the tip of a branch. Sending the climber flailing on his climbing line as the limb slingshotted him. This is not the Dan Osman thread? He free climbed (without rope), up a rock face, higher than any tree grows and jumped off cliffs taller than any tree (and jumped out of trees too) with only a dynamic line (ultimately) for a life line.


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 26, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> well how do the two compare in your experience specifically?



I don't think we've seen an answer to that... Maybe because your experience is limited to:


ApexTreeService said:


> I've read some stuff and seen youtube vids



This is a "Porta-Wrap" thread. One of the main points of using a porta-wrap is to minimize the shock loading on ANY ropes used for lowering. If you have missed the point of "letting it run" or don't fully uinderstand how this device operates (ie. don't own one / never used one) then arguing static vs dynamic is a moot issue.

Dan is dead... nothing will change that. Absent a good dose of common sense, he voluntarily lept from stable ground (rocks / trees / whatever) to prove he HAD balls. Any comparison of what he did to what we do is a ridiculous analogy. Our industry is hailed as "America's second deadliest job". There's no room for stupid glory rides. It adds to the negative statistics that most of us on this forum try to prevent.


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## lone wolf (Apr 26, 2010)

2FatGuys said:


> I don't think we've seen an answer to that... Maybe because your experience is limited to:
> 
> 
> This is a "Porta-Wrap" thread. One of the main points of using a porta-wrap is to minimize the shock loading on ANY ropes used for lowering. If you have missed the point of "letting it run" or don't fully uinderstand how this device operates (ie. don't own one / never used one) then arguing static vs dynamic is a moot issue.
> ...


so your rigging line of choice is? double or what?


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 26, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> so your rigging line of choice is? double or what?



Mine? Depends on the situation... but our standard "go to" line is a 3/4" Sampson StableBraid. Smaller stuff may fly on "retired" Arbormaster or 9/16 StableBraid. We carry a variety of ropes on the truck and select based on need.

Safety first....


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## D Mc (Apr 26, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> so your rigging line of choice is? double or what?


 
Lone wolf, you want to be sure all your components match and are designed for our industry use and your application. The large porta-wraps are rated for 3/4" rope but that's not optimum. Their drum diameter is a little small so they will run better with lines in the 9/16" size. Porta-wraps work much better with double braids than they do with 3 strand twisted. 

Static vs dynamic. Lines designed for use in arborist work have had a great deal of thought and experience incorporated into them. They are not true static and they are not true dynamic. There are variances, as pointed out, in the amount of stretch but technique will have the most impact on the successful use of these products. 

Dave


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## lone wolf (Apr 26, 2010)

D Mc said:


> Lone wolf, you want to be sure all your components match and are designed for our industry use and your application. The large porta-wraps are rated for 3/4" rope but that's not optimum. Their drum diameter is a little small so they will run better with lines in the 9/16" size. Porta-wraps work much better with double braids than they do with 3 strand twisted.
> 
> Static vs dynamic. Lines designed for use in arborist work have had a great deal of thought and experience incorporated into them. They are not true static and they are not true dynamic. There are variances, as pointed out, in the amount of stretch but technique will have the most impact on the successful use of these products.
> 
> Dave


I have the large porta wrap and use 1/2 double braid nothing super heavy 500 lbs or so.


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 26, 2010)

D Mc said:


> Lone wolf, you want to be sure all your components match and are designed for our industry use and your application. The large porta-wraps are rated for 3/4" rope but that's not optimum. Their drum diameter is a little small so they will run better with lines in the 9/16" size. Porta-wraps work much better with double braids than they do with 3 strand twisted.



Agreed! Our 5/8" runs better through it, but we have a lot less worker fatigue manning the larger 3/4" and taking same size pieces as if we were using a smaller rope. The larger rope just fits the hand more comfortably.


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## Damon (Apr 29, 2010)

*Dan osman*

Dan didnt use dynamic line he use static and used a grigri with aprox 20 feet of slack as a friction device to slow himself down the only dynamic line that was used was in the anchors of his system, dynamic line has a really good place in fall protection for climbers that is what it is designed for, its not made to take a big hits and recover time and time again, If i take a big fall on lead i mean anything with more then 30 feet of drop i retire a rope and all the gear that saved my life its not worth the risk of reusing.

as for the portawrap i have one that i have used a few times in the tree and quite a bit on the ground, my ground guy is a rock climber like myself who is also interested in trees and he has no problem letting wood run however we buy no means take 20' of wood at a time with ours, its seems a fools errand to put yourself at that kind of risk when a big shockload could uproot the tree your in or worse break off the bole

Tom


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## ApexTreeService (Apr 29, 2010)

Damon said:


> Dan didnt use dynamic line he use static and used a grigri with aprox 20 feet of slack as a friction device to slow himself down the only dynamic line that was used was in the anchors of his system, dynamic line has a really good place in fall protection for climbers that is what it is designed for, its not made to take a big hits and recover time and time again, If i take a big fall on lead i mean anything with more then 30 feet of drop i retire a rope and all the gear that saved my life its not worth the risk of reusing.
> 
> as for the portawrap i have one that i have used a few times in the tree and quite a bit on the ground, my ground guy is a rock climber like myself who is also interested in trees and he has no problem letting wood run however we buy no means take 20' of wood at a time with ours, its seems a fools errand to put yourself at that kind of risk when a big shockload could uproot the tree your in or worse break off the bole
> 
> Tom



Your kidding right? He used 10.5 mm dynamic (high elongation, i.e. stretch) nylon Kernmantle rock climbing line, knotted to a rock climbing harness modified to full body harness.

Here's a vid of Dan with the line knotted to harness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5olx81kcr9w

The modern sport of Rock Climbing makes extensive use of so called "dynamic" rope, which is designed to stretch under load in an elastic manner in order to absorb the energy required to arrest a person in free fall without generating forces high enough to injure them. Such ropes normally use a Kernmantle construction, as described below. "Static" ropes, used for example in caving, rappelling, and rescue applications, are designed for minimal stretch; they are not designed to arrest free falls.


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