# Does anyone rent feller-bunchers or harvesters in Washington?



## J-Red (Feb 24, 2012)

I've done some investigating and have come up empty handed so maybe this is a crazy question. However, it never hurts to ask, right? The scenario is: 14 acre even-aged Doug-fir stand planted 37 years ago. Trees are over-crowded and should have been thinned years ago yet there is good size wood that will be marketable if I can get the smaller stuff out. I figure a harvester could get in there the easiest and I've got an operator to run it, but no machine. Living on Whidbey Island doesn't help matters either. What say ye?

Thanks!
Nate


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## tramp bushler (Feb 24, 2012)

14 acres . Should only take u 2 weeks to a month with a power saw . What spaceing are you after ? Find some logger with a small line shidder and there ya go .


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## J-Red (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm shooting for 17 foot spacing, I know 14 acres isn't a huge tract but finding the right guy on an island (even one this size) isn't easy. I had a logger out here today and he was only interested in short loads for firewood @ $200/load. Granted, that's leaving the dominant trees and taking the suppressed ones but I still have to fell and yard to the landing before he gets involved.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 25, 2012)

How big is a load ? 
If you rent a buncher I can't see how you will even begin to recoup your falling and logging cost . 
With a small stand like 14 acres and a remote area figure it will take a buncher 3 days plus 1 day each way for mobing it . Thats alot . A 3 man pre comercial tree thinning crew could do it in 3 or 4 days possibly a little less . Then you could bunch with a small track hoe w/ thumb and log with a small skidder .

How many cord per acre do you anticipate ??


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## timberdollars (Feb 25, 2012)

*Wa logging*

Hey WOW!!! don't be selling market Timber for wood. I live in the upper skagit and have a good friend who owns a small logging company outta Maple Falls. He has Skidders and shovels!! He works all over, and lives in Lyman now. I have two 20 acre parcels he's going to log for me soon.

Anyone trying to buy standing timber here in Wa. for firewwod thats not Maple/Birch is NOT RIGHT!!!!!! 

Pm if interested in info for my freind.

Duane


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## slowp (Feb 25, 2012)

If the ground is flat, a buncher is the way to go--sorry guys.

I am assuming the trees are limblocked. I've been falling trees about the same age here, in a small patch. I'm not a faller, but those who are would have the same problem. You can't get the trees on the ground.
They fall, and hang up in a leave tree. I lop off the hinge, and we hook a tractor up to get them on the ground. 

Providing you have a good operator, you'll get less damage to the leave trees using a buncher. Good choice. 
I don't know where you can rent one. I think you can somewhere out of Eugene, OR, but that's no help. You might call Ritchie Bros. Some of the really small operators sometimes are able to lease equipment from there.


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## floyd (Feb 25, 2012)

Is there a horselogger on the island?


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## tramp bushler (Feb 25, 2012)

Ah Slowp . Sorry but you are wrong . I am a faller and a pre commercial tree thinner . I've only thinned around 400 acres but thats enough to know that a little patch like 14 acres isn't worth the trouble that is being gone thru . 

Unless the O P has a medical condition that precludes him from sweating . Or working hard .


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## J-Red (Feb 25, 2012)

Great Discussion! 

To tramp bushler: 
According to the logger yesterday his "firewood" load is a short load or 1/2 a truck load. Janicki Logging was out on the island recently with their Timberjack 1270 harvesting machine working a 60 acre piece similar to mine. Here's a link to the article if anyone's interested. 

Still, the cost of a small crew vs. machine rental is exactwhat I need to compare. Thanks for your input. I haven't crunched the numbers on cord per acre, density varies from 750 to 400tpa. 100tpa would be my goal with thinning. The logger figured around 30 logs (15 trees) for 1/2 truck load equaling 4-5 cords. He'll pay $200 for such a load if the logs are landed. 

to timberdollars:
Thanks for the info, I'll PM you. As far as market timber goes I'm wanting to leave them behind for now which is why the harvester seems like the way to go. But maybe your guy will work out.

to slowp:
The ground is flat and yes the trees are limblocked with about 20% crowns. I think you're right, the trees would be prone to hanging up and since I want to leave the market timber to grow larger damage to them needs to be avoided. I'll check out Ritchie Bros. Thanks!

to floyd: 
There is not a horselogger on the island but there is one in Port Angeles who has done work on the Island. 

Heritage Millworks/ Draftworks Horse Logging
Greg Lange 
255568 Hwy 101 
Port Angeles, WA 98362 
(360) 452-0932


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## forestryworks (Feb 25, 2012)

Check your live crown ration, if it's too low, less than say 30%, might not be worth your time to thin.

Check with some west coast foresters here on that though.


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## madhatte (Feb 25, 2012)

We thinned a similar unit a year or so ago and it responded really well -- the dark lifted, the understory exploded and it looks like it's gonna be fine. It was I think 25 acres and average LCR was about 15%. This was done by a father-and-son crew out of Graham, all handfalling and skidder work. I doubt they could have paid the bills with a rented buncher.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 25, 2012)

You will only damage your crop / leave trees if you screw up . Doing a good job tree thinning just takes work and a little thot . What is the dbh avg. Of what you want to remove ? 40-50$ a cord is too low . If you processed it into firewood yourself you would get alot better return . Whatkind of leader growth does the stand have . Is it consistant ? What species ????????


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## floyd (Feb 25, 2012)

I would have the horselogger look at.


There was a feller buncher that thinned about 10ac above me for a local timber company. Took about an acre to process the slash. Strictly pre-commercial.

Left some nice PP. Prolly ready for harvest in 30 yrs or so.

I am not familiar with that horselogger but generally leave trees fare better with animal powered skidding.


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## J-Red (Feb 25, 2012)

This is a 14 acre even-aged Doug-fir stand planted 37 years ago. Avg DBH varies of course but easily averages 12". Some are 18" Height is 60' or better. So I'd be taking everything 8" or less. 

I assume by leader growth you mean how much vertical growth occurs in one year. I'm not sure but there is definitely a mix of dominant, co-dominant and suppressed trees so it varies. However, core samples even from dominant trees shows a slowing growth rate (and we know why, of course).

The forester who walked it with me couldn't believe how big the dominant trees were, given how dense the stand is. With the vigor this stand seems to have I think the crowns will recover with no problem... but we get high winds at times so post-thinning blow down concerns me.

Processing it into firewood myself is part of the discussion... but having the time to do it is the biggest hang-up and are processors worth investing in (and reselling later)?

Thanks to you all for your input!


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## tramp bushler (Feb 25, 2012)

Most all of it depends on how much time do yoy have to put into it and how much $$ you want to get out of it . 

If you have time then all you need is a power saw ,skidder and a truck . ... And alot of sweat .


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## slowp (Feb 25, 2012)

A suggestion?

A friend of mine has had smallish parcels logged. She usually waits until a reputable logger is working in the area--either 5 miles away or working past their place. Then she has hired them to log. That way, she has saved on the moving equipment costs--mobilization. Her commercial thinning unit was done mechanically, and turned out beautiful. Sorry to say this, but it turned out much better than doing the falling by hand. She had an exceptional logger in there though, and he was able to choose the trees to cut. 

There was hardly any damage to the leave trees. He cut with a processor, so there was no tree length skidding, and the rest of the crew came through. They were all about retirement age so had been at it a long time. 

Can you expect any of your neighbors to be logging in the near future? Maybe work out a group deal? Otherwise, the expenses of moving in machinery will be high, and probably not worth doing for a thin from below on 14 acres--with a feller buncher or processor.


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## slowp (Feb 25, 2012)

Another point which you may already be aware of. 

Try to do it before the sap flow begins. Or wait until Summer. The bark will slough off big time during sap flow and you'll lose grade in your future crop. 

Do you belong to the Washington Farm Forestry Association? They have seminars and resources for small landowners.


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## tramp bushler (Feb 25, 2012)

Now that makes good sense . A bar saw harvestor . I think thats what they are called . And then forwarding itwound make things easier . And if they are already on the island that will save alot .


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## slowp (Feb 25, 2012)

They had a high track cat with a grapple. Forwarders are rare around my area. There was one being used as a tailhold and later a guyline anchor for a yarder...


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## J-Red (Feb 26, 2012)

I think I missed my chance on piggybacking with another job in the area... if ya read about it in the paper ya probably missed it. But I called them anyway just in case.

I was just introduced to the Washington Farm Forestry Association, and this is a good reminder. 



> Try to do it before the sap flow begins. Or wait until Summer. The bark will slough off big time during sap flow and you'll lose grade in your future crop.


 Amen.


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## Family TreeRoot (Apr 12, 2012)

Your post inspired me to finally sign up and quit lurking. I too was looking for a rental feller buncher for a property I just bought out near Concrete. Your post popped up in the google search.

I own a firewood company and we process about an 8-12 cord average per day, 7 days a week. I live on whidbey and would be very interested in walking your job and finding a solution that gives you the thining you need and me some logs to process without either of us needing to pull out too much cash. 

PM me your number and I can call you today. You might notice that its 4:30 am and I am already up working before the sun is up. I take what I do seriously, and we are not afraid of long days to accomplish our goals.


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