# Chinese elm clear cut and uses for....the wood.



## deeker (Oct 10, 2010)

Going to clear cut a bunch of chinese elm. Some of which is 25"+ dbh.

Has anyone ever built anything with elm??? I will have over 40 good sized trees, over 14"dbh to play with, and a lot in the 10"dbh range. Smaller stuff will go for hobby wood and firewood.

A friend of mine builds long bows with this wood, and also makes implement handles out of it. He boils and bends it.

Some of the wood will go to the local campgrounds for picnic table tops 2.5"x12"x8'-16'.

More of it is going to be some project wood for a small one room log type shed/cabin.

I will mill oversize, (NorwoodLM2000) to allow for warp/sweep and all the fun stuff...all green healthy trees. 

What should I plan on dimension should I plan on finishing to???

Thinking of 4"x6" or 6"x8". Not exactly new to milling this type of wood, just the first time building with it.

I will use Ollie bolts, to stack them with. Elm needs to be pre drilled, very fiber-us type wood.

I wish I had a couple of pictures of the sheds ( log style ) from the 4"x6" juniper we cut a few years ago.

Pics ASAP.

What do you guys think??? 

Kevin


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## Brmorgan (Oct 11, 2010)

There is a company called *WoodAnchor* up in Winnipeg, Manitoba, that mills hardwood flooring solely from the City's Elm trees which have been killed by DED. Not sure how their trees differ from Chinese elm though. 

I don't know anything about building with the stuff, but I know back in Ontario where I'm originally from, people hated dealing with Elm even for firewood, because of the fibrous grain as you pointed out. Hard as nails too.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Oct 11, 2010)

Chinese elm? I've heard that term used for ailanthus. Is that what you're talking about?

If so, it's pretty poor wood. About like poplar for burning. Very brittle, too. I wouldn't build anything with it.


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## deeker (Oct 11, 2010)

We use cottonwood and elm for trailer decking for the trailers we haul backhoes and trackhoes on. Much more durable than any pine/fir/oak for that purpose.

Elm, we need to drill a pilot hole for anything which is kind of a pain. But the up side is it does NOT split.


The hard-as-nails hardwood with beauty a burl deep

Throughout history, man has chosen elm when he needed a tough and durable wood. Wheelwrights fashioned wheel hubs from nothing but the rugged elm, and then used it to floor long-lasting wagon beds. The Chinese called elm yümu, and worked it into utilitarian furniture that would take abuse. Fine furnituremakers called on elm, too, but in the form of burl veneer from a species growing in Europe's Carpathian Mountains.

In early America, Iroquois Indians tempered fever with a medicine derived from the inner bark of the slippery elm. Years later, players in the new game of baseball chewed this same elm bark to produce a sticky saliva, which when rubbed into the pocket of their glove, made balls easier to catch.

Despite its many uses, elm's primary fame has come from its graceful beauty and the shade it provides. From France to Middle America, elm once lined miles of city streets and country byways. Today, unfortunately, elm trees are being killed by a spreading fungus called Dutch elm disease. Efforts to control the disease haven't been successful. Fortunately, the propagation of hybrid, disease-resistant trees shows promise.


Wood identification
Elm claims about 20 species in the temperate regions of the world. The most well known include the stately American elm (Ulmus Americana) and the slippery elm (Ulmus rubra) of the United States, and the English elm (Ulmus procera) in Europe and Great Britain.

In the forest, elm often grows 140' tall. But open-grown elms rarely reach that height. Instead, they form a spreading, umbrella-like crown valued for shade.

The English and American elms have deeply fissured bark with crisscrossing ridges of an ash-gray color. The bark of slippery elm is the same color, but lacks pattern.

You can identify elm easily by its leaves. About 5" long and 3" wide, they have saw-toothed edges ending in a sharp point.

Elm heartwood ranges in tone from reddish brown to light tan, while the sapwood approaches off-white. The usually dramatic grain resembles ash. Moderately dense, elm weighs nearly 40 lbs. per cubic foot dry.

American and slippery elm will root practically everywhere east of the Rocky Mountains (except for the high Appalachians and the southern tip of Florida). You'll find elm growing in river bottoms and on low, fertile hills mixed with other species of hardwoods.


Working properties
Hard and tough, elm still bends easily when steamed, and when dry, holds its shape. Its twisted, interlocking grain makes elm difficult to work with anything but power tools. It also won't split when screwed or nailed, but demands drilling pilot holes. And the wood sands easily to a natural low luster.

Burl veneers tend to be brittle and troublesome to flatten. Try those with flexible backing.


Uses in woodworking
Besides the frequent use of its veneer for paneling, furnituremakers take advantage of elm's ruggedness for hidden furniture parts. You'll often find it in chair and sofa frames, backs, and legs. Yet elm's beautiful wood grain also has fine furniture possibilities.

Elm works well, too, for butcher block tops and cutting boards because it has no odor or taste, and it won't split. When in contact with water, elm resists decay, so many boatbuilders use it for planking.


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## BobL (Oct 11, 2010)

deeker said:


> What do you guys think???
> 
> Kevin



We have nothing like that around here. The nearest milled elm I've hear about being milled in Oz is in South Australia about 1500 miles away.

Danivan has milled some Elm maybe he can chip on this one.


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## BlueRider (Oct 11, 2010)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Chinese elm? I've heard that term used for ailanthus. Is that what you're talking about?
> 
> If so, it's pretty poor wood. About like poplar for burning. Very brittle, too. I wouldn't build anything with it.



One of the many common names for alianthus is chinese sumac. Chinese elm is the common name for Ulmas parviflora.


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## BlueRider (Oct 11, 2010)

Chinese elm is very different from all the other elms. Starting with its appeance it has a smooth bark very much like sycamore but with an orange tone to it, The laeves have a very classic elm shape to them but they are only about 1" long. 

The wood from chinese elm is also very different. it is much denser than the other elms and is not ring porous. When freshly cut it lacks the distictive "barnyard" scent common to all the other elms and instead has a spicy almost peppery kind of smell. The dried wood has subtle pinkish/fleshy colored streaks but these intesting colors fade over time to a middle brown. The grain figure is not as pronounced as it is in the other elms and it is in some ways similar to pecan or maple in the way it is a nice looking wood but it allows the design to be the focal point rather then the flashy wood being the domanant design feature.

Most of the elms are very strong and chinese elm still stands out abouve all the others in this area as well. I use Chinese elm for all my chisel handles, hammer handles and malllets and find it to be superior to hickory or any other wood.

Chinese elm turns beauitfully and will take a nice polish off the lathe without any finish. It will hold fine detail when carving but it would not be my first choice due to its hardness,

It burns much easier with saw blades and router bits than the other elms but it dosent dull cutting tools quite as abusively as the other elms either.

I had moderate movement when milling at 2 1/4" and stickering 12" from the ends and 24" OC. It is a wonderfull wood and if You were closer I would swap you some claro walnut for some chinese elm.


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## deeker (Oct 11, 2010)

BlueRider said:


> Chinese elm is very different from all the other elms. Starting with its appeance it has a smooth bark very much like sycamore but with an orange tone to it, The laeves have a very classic elm shape to them but they are only about 1" long.
> 
> The wood from chinese elm is also very different. it is much denser than the other elms and is not ring porous. When freshly cut it lacks the distictive "barnyard" scent common to all the other elms and instead has a spicy almost peppery kind of smell. The dried wood has subtle pinkish/fleshy colored streaks but these intesting colors fade over time to a middle brown. The grain figure is not as pronounced as it is in the other elms and it is in some ways similar to pecan or maple in the way it is a nice looking wood but it allows the design to be the focal point rather then the flashy wood being the domanant design feature.
> 
> ...



Maybe I stand corrected....ooops on my part. Siberian elm. It is full of tiny bugs that drip "sap" on everything underneath them. Also the bark is fairly deeply furrowed, and quite thick. I will try and post pics. What I have found so far siberian is what it looks the most like.


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## MCW (Oct 12, 2010)

BobL said:


> We have nothing like that around here. The nearest milled elm I've hear about being milled in Oz is in South Australia about 1500 miles away.



Hi Bob  I gather you're talking about the Chinese Elm log I had?
Unfortunately I never got the chance to mill it as it got a big crack in it, I hadn't paid much attention to it for a while, and when I got back to actually mill it the thing had split into basically unusable bits - unfortunately a crack had opened up on top of the log and rain had filled it up 
Beautiful grain, very hard, and surprisingly the smaller bits I had didn't split at all. Although not an Aussie hardwood the particular specimen I had was right up there in the "hard to cut" category!











I was a bit disappointed as I had big plans for this log including sending Bob some 

By the way the bits I chopped up for firewood burn very well although do leave some ash...


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## betterbuilt (Oct 12, 2010)

I'd say pick the best looking stuff and mill it. Every time I find it, its already cut into firewood and I say to myself that's some pretty looking colors. 

Mill it, post some pictures. One thing to remember is it doesn't make very good firewood because it splits really hard and its stringy.


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## BlueRider (Oct 12, 2010)

Siberian elm is probably the most desired of the elms for furniture due to its color and figure. It tends to be dark brown and when freshly cut can have some almost blue/green looking streaks of color along with some white streaks. these wild streaks of color almost disapear once the wood is dry. Siberian tends to have small groups of pin knots that can give it an almost birds eye figure but this figure rarely covers the whole board like it can with birs eye maple. the flat sawn figure can be particularly spectacular. 

Siberian elm is murder on planner blades and is only slightly less distructive to router bits and saw blades. It sands well and takes all finishes. It is a very ring poourus wood and can have a "rustic" look unless you fill the grain. It turns but as you would expect it is killer on turning chisels. It does not carve well!!!

Siberian elm is particularly suited to making period pieces or pieces in a low style. By that I mean it is a good substitute for chestnut or white oak. It is very strong and due to having interlocking grain it is resistent to spliting.


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## deeker (Oct 12, 2010)

BlueRider said:


> Siberian elm is probably the most desired of the elms for furniture due to its color and figure. It tends to be dark brown and when freshly cut can have some almost blue/green looking streaks of color along with some white streaks. these wild streaks of color almost disapear once the wood is dry. Siberian tends to have small groups of pin knots that can give it an almost birds eye figure but this figure rarely covers the whole board like it can with birs eye maple. the flat sawn figure can be particularly spectacular.
> 
> Siberian elm is murder on planner blades and is only slightly less distructive to router bits and saw blades. It sands well and takes all finishes. It is a very ring poourus wood and can have a "rustic" look unless you fill the grain. It turns but as you would expect it is killer on turning chisels. It does not carve well!!!
> 
> Siberian elm is particularly suited to making period pieces or pieces in a low style. By that I mean it is a good substitute for chestnut or white oak. It is very strong and due to having interlocking grain it is resistent to spliting.



What about American elm??? I will take pics and post asap.

Thanks for the information!!!!

Kevin


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## guitarborist (Oct 12, 2010)

*My Siberian Elm*

Go here http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1031850#post1031850
I have qiute a bit of Si Elm milled and dried (2 years) that I am giong to make into flooring this winter. The wood can be stringy, but it all dried very straight and very little checking. The boards are all 1" by 12" and 10". The wood is beautiful, lots of red, yellow and brown streaks. I have 4 more logs to mill this winter. they are 2-4 feet by 8 feet.


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## BobL (Oct 12, 2010)

MCW said:


> Hi Bob  I gather you're talking about the Chinese Elm log I had?


Yep - wondering when you'd put 2 + 2 together.



> Unfortunately I never got the chance to mill it as it got a big crack in it, I hadn't paid much attention to it for a while, and when I got back to actually mill it the thing had split into basically unusable bits - unfortunately a crack had opened up on top of the log and rain had filled it up
> .
> .
> .
> ...



Oh :censored: - that's too bad.


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## MCW (Oct 13, 2010)

BobL said:


> Yep - wondering when you'd put 2 + 2 together.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh :censored: - that's too bad.



I can send you just a little bit - from memory you were talking tool handles? There will certainly be enough there for a few of them


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## BobL (Oct 13, 2010)

MCW said:


> I can send you just a little bit - from memory you were talking tool handles? There will certainly be enough there for a few of them



Excellent - that is all I need.


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## MCW (Oct 13, 2010)

BobL said:


> Excellent - that is all I need.



I still have your address mate so I'll get something to you ASAP


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## Daninvan (Oct 13, 2010)

Elm is a reasonably common street tree in Vancouver. There are many types planted, most back in the 30's or so, they are a very decent size, some too large for my 36" bar. I don't think that DED is here so there are even some American Elms. 

I've milled up ten or so elm street and yard trees that have come down, most of them have been quite stinky even though they were not spalted, a couple were not stinky but still had a smell to them, more of a sweet musty aroma. I cannot really tell the different types apart when milling them. 

Anyways as far as I know it is a fine wood for furniture. My milling buddies and I have made various items out of it, cabinets, a bookshelf, drawers, etc. It seems to work well with tools and machines, and is strong. I do find the grain of these urban elms a bit 'gamey' or coarse sometimes. The quartersawn slabs on a big log can be very fine. Fine Woodworking 103 had an article about elm for woodworking.





Big Elm Log





Couple Small Elm Logs





Bookcase I made





Cabinet Made of Elm I Milled


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## huskyhank (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks for the pics and report!
Tried to rep ya' but out of ammo.


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## deeker (Oct 13, 2010)

huskyhank said:


> Thanks for the pics and report!
> Tried to rep ya' but out of ammo.



I agree, he does very nice work....and I hit him with a couple of nova's.

Great pics and work!!!

Kevin


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## deeker (Oct 14, 2010)

The pics are big to help identify the wood. Siberian? American? It is an elm and has lots of tiny aphids.

These are some of the smaller trees.












And the end grain of a stump and a different elm from the same stand.


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## betterbuilt (Oct 14, 2010)

How about Slippery Elm? The fresh cut end doesn't look like Chinese elm to me. The ones I see here have a purple hue to them.


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## deeker (Oct 14, 2010)

betterbuilt said:


> How about Slippery Elm? The fresh cut end doesn't look like Chinese elm to me. The ones I see here have a purple hue to them.



I have cut a lot of Slippery elm, it has a lot smoother bark and a distinct smell. These are different than that.

I will take more pics asap.


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## deeker (Nov 3, 2010)

Hope to get a few elm logs on the mill this weekend.

Just got a new 3' bar and ripping chain for the 088, to use on the largest logs that I cannot fit on the mill.

Pics soon.


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## john taliaferro (Nov 3, 2010)

*elm*

We used it on one wall of our living room in 76 when i built this house. got it from a old guy that milled it in 1955.Shure is puretty litely stained with oil john t


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## Can8ianTimber (Nov 3, 2010)

Here is a desk I made out of what I was told was Siberian Elm, I really don't know what kind of elm it was. I was told it machines like walnut and I would say that is fairly accurate. 










I really enjoyed working with it but this stuff stinks like the barnyard when it is green.


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## deeker (Nov 5, 2010)

Can8ianTimber said:


> Here is a desk I made out of what I was told was Siberian Elm, I really don't know what kind of elm it was. I was told it machines like walnut and I would say that is fairly accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You do good work!!


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## deeker (Mar 3, 2011)

I have finally thawed out enough to drop ten elm trees today. None very big, the largest is 15"dbh.....barley big enough for the sawmill. The rest will be firewood.


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