# o no??



## TreEmergencyB (May 6, 2009)

Started at a new company about a 10 days ago boss was gonna prune little maple tree after we removed 2 cherrys. he asked for his climbing gear so i grabbed his belt and rope set it by the tree. About 5 mins later he goes "hey, wheres my spikes?"...o no, i said,"i thought u said u was going to prune that tree?" 
"i am i need my spikes please"


so unforntly i let myself get a job with a hack, he said he spikes just about all prune jobs kinda glad im there now he said he dont like to prune. i told him i loved it after i seen that, hopefully i can save some from the tradgy!!


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## MonkeyMan_812 (May 6, 2009)

I kind of enjoy climbing without spikes. I got used to it after all the storms in the midwest. I seems like i can get around the tree better. Good luck with your new job.


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## TreEmergencyB (May 6, 2009)

i think unless it is really neccassy spikes should not be used. I know sometimes they need be but not just because its easier, if you want easy find a different career, right i love my trees and we shouldn't damage them cause people get lazy,


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## asthesun (May 6, 2009)

spike em all. well not all i guess. i have a soft spot for small trees with limbs close to the ground. anything i have to tie into and limb walk, i will always wear spikes. i spike all the way up to t.i.p, rapell down to desired limb, walk out until you begin to slip a bit, and the stab that suckr so you cant go anywhere. you're going up there to cut stuff, right? what difference do a few holes make? i will occasionally put a ladder up so there's no holes near the base which is where insects like to enter, but thats only very seldom. especially since i mostly do removals


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## treemandan (May 6, 2009)

asthesun said:


> spike em all. well not all i guess. i have a soft spot for small trees with limbs close to the ground. anything i have to tie into and limb walk, i will always wear spikes. i spike all the way up to t.i.p, rapell down to desired limb, walk out until you begin to slip a bit, and the stab that suckr so you cant go anywhere. you're going up there to cut stuff, right? what difference do a few holes make? i will occasionally put a ladder up so there's no holes near the base which is where insects like to enter, but thats only very seldom. especially since i mostly do removals



Stanley? Is that you? 
But seriously, you are about to get yer ass handed to you, see ya.


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## asthesun (May 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Stanley? Is that you?
> But seriously, you are about to get yer ass handed to you, see ya.



in what way? i love the vagueness


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## treemandan (May 6, 2009)

asthesun said:


> in what way? i love the vagueness



Oh don't worry about the vagueness man, it will all be crystal clear shortly.

How's Stanely? Still a miserable $%#@sucker?


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## asthesun (May 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Oh don't worry about the vagueness man, it will all be crystal clear shortly.
> 
> How's Stanely? Still a miserable $%#@sucker?



erm... i dont know stanley... he might be a miserable bastich. w/e. if you want to continue being vague i'll just stop listening. *plugs ears* lalalalalalalalalalaicanthearyoulalalala


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## tomtrees58 (May 6, 2009)

MonkeyMan_812 said:


> I kind of enjoy climbing without spikes. I got used to it after all the storms in the midwest. I seems like i can get around the tree better.
> :monkey: your kidding right tom trees


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## Tr33Climb3r (May 6, 2009)

asthesun said:


> spike em all. well not all i guess. i have a soft spot for small trees with limbs close to the ground. anything i have to tie into and limb walk, i will always wear spikes. i spike all the way up to t.i.p, rapell down to desired limb, walk out until you begin to slip a bit, and the stab that suckr so you cant go anywhere. you're going up there to cut stuff, right? what difference do a few holes make? i will occasionally put a ladder up so there's no holes near the base which is where insects like to enter, but thats only very seldom. especially since i mostly do removals



lack of intelligence :looser:


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## treemandan (May 6, 2009)

Look, no one likes a spiker. No one likes a spiker who doesn't even know why its wrong even worse. Sure, there are some crappy trees you might spike to prune but all in all its a very bad practice. 
I would just say that you are young, didn't know better and won't do it again at this point cause YUP yer ass is about to be handed to you.


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## treemandan (May 6, 2009)

Tr33Climb3r said:


> lack of intelligence :looser:



See? Its coming.


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## asthesun (May 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Look, no one likes a spiker. No one likes a spiker who doesn't even know why its wrong even worse. Sure, there are some crappy trees you might spike to prune but all in all its a very bad practice.
> I would just say that you are young, didn't know better and won't do it again at this point cause YUP yer ass is about to be handed to you.



its all about location. some places let you get away with spiking everything, some places dont. i live in a place where i can get away with it, and i do. its not as bad as i make it sound though, we have a bucket that reaches 90% of trims. to me though, its also about production and money. i can get to the top of a tree much faster on hooks the way i do than even the best rope climber can set a rope and hump up there.
again with the vagueness. childish really. hand me my ass already, if you think you can


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## slinger (May 6, 2009)

I got 20 on The Dan:bringit:


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## tree md (May 6, 2009)

TreEmergencyB said:


> Started at a new company about a 10 days ago boss was gonna prune little maple tree after we removed 2 cherrys. he asked for his climbing gear so i grabbed his belt and rope set it by the tree. About 5 mins later he goes "hey, wheres my spikes?"...o no, i said,"i thought u said u was going to prune that tree?"
> "i am i need my spikes please"
> 
> 
> so unforntly i let myself get a job with a hack, he said he spikes just about all prune jobs kinda glad im there now he said he dont like to prune. i told him i loved it after i seen that, hopefully i can save some from the tradgy!!



Good on you buddy. Maybe you can teach your new boss a thing or two. Who knows, you might end up taking his job. :greenchainsaw:


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## treemandan (May 6, 2009)

asthesun said:


> its all about location. some places let you get away with spiking everything, some places dont. i live in a place where i can get away with it, and i do. its not as bad as i make it sound though, we have a bucket that reaches 90% of trims. to me though, its also about production and money. i can get to the top of a tree much faster on hooks the way i do than even the best rope climber can set a rope and hump up there.
> again with the vagueness. childish really. hand me my ass already, if you think you can



Who, besides you, is trying to "get away" with anything? Don't bother with an answer cause I allready know and really, its coming. Nobody who is anybody is gonna spike a nice live tree. There is a word for that, its called " a hack". Maybe now that you know you will stop and use better judgement. I don't make the rules by the way but dems is the rules.
Anyway, nice to meet you kiddo, welcome to the site. I hope we can turn you around without to much fuss. sheez, kids today.


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## ddhlakebound (May 6, 2009)

asthesun said:


> its all about location. some places let you get away with spiking everything, some places dont. i live in a place where i can get away with it, and i do. its not as bad as i make it sound though, we have a bucket that reaches 90% of trims. to me though, its also about production and money. i can get to the top of a tree much faster on hooks the way i do than even the best rope climber can set a rope and hump up there.
> again with the vagueness. childish really. hand me my ass already, if you think you can


 
sounds to me like its all about being a hack. spikes in, cash out, and on to the next one. who really cares anyway....they're only trees.


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## asthesun (May 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Who, besides you, is trying to "get away" with anything? Don't bother with an answer cause I allready know and really, its coming. Nobody who is anybody is gonna spike a nice live tree. There is a word for that, its called " a hack". Maybe now that you know you will stop and use better judgement. I don't make the rules by the way but dems is the rules.
> Anyway, nice to meet you kiddo, welcome to the site. I hope we can turn you around without to much fuss. sheez, kids today.



thx old man. i'm already set in my ways tho. sure, i'm willing to learn new things. anything really, as long as it doesnt involve ascending a rope


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## Raymond (May 6, 2009)

OK I need to confess to something.
I too use my spurs for most trees.
The trick is to learn to keep it to a minimum. 

Just because they're there doesn't mean you need to use them.
Besides my hand saw is attached to my spurs, not my leg.

If I have to compete with hackers, I need my gear and spurs is part of it.

You just watch every step you take.


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## Tr33Climb3r (May 6, 2009)

asthesun said:


> thx old man. i'm already set in my ways tho. sure, i'm willing to learn new things. anything really, as long as it doesnt involve ascending a rope



wow are you for real? oke:


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## Tr33Climb3r (May 6, 2009)

Raymond said:


> OK I need to confess to something.
> I too use my spurs for most trees.
> The trick is to learn to keep it to a minimum.
> 
> ...



my goodness another :looser:


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## Raymond (May 6, 2009)

I was ready to see if TreeManDan was ready to be on my buddy list.
LOL, Guess I'll try next month.


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## asthesun (May 6, 2009)

like i said in another thread somewhere, everyone in my town and surrounding counties hooks trees. only arborists around here work for the city and this is what we say when we meet them :



Tr33Climb3r said:


> my goodness another :looser:



arborists around here are just bookworms who think they know it all but never do the works themselves or are willing to sacrifice profit margins for 'what is good for the tree'. probably the only thing you would disagree with about me if we met is my ascention method, my cutting and rigging is for the most part above board


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## treemandan (May 6, 2009)

asthesun said:


> thx old man. i'm already set in my ways tho. sure, i'm willing to learn new things. anything really, as long as it doesnt involve ascending a rope



well that is good, you know pizza delivery guys don't have to ascend ropes, maybe you should try that?


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## treemandan (May 6, 2009)

Raymond said:


> OK I need to confess to something.
> I too use my spurs for most trees.
> The trick is to learn to keep it to a minimum.
> 
> ...



Raymond, Raymond, Raymond.


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## asthesun (May 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> well that is good, you know pizza delivery guys don't have to ascend ropes, maybe you should try that?



come to fla and show me how its done, plz.


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## Tr33Climb3r (May 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> well that is good, you know pizza delivery guys don't have to ascend ropes, maybe you should try that?


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## tree md (May 6, 2009)

I used to be guilty of the same thing because that is how I was taught and I didn't know any better. Now I know better and don't do that. I look at it this way, if the ladder hacks can get up in the tree and work without spikes then surely I can.


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## asthesun (May 6, 2009)

is this how my ass is getting handed to me? frankly, i'm not impressed. going to sleep now, i'll read your bad-mouthings tomorrow morning or after work


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## Raymond (May 7, 2009)

*Definition of the word minimum*

Least possible amount; smallest possible size; lowest degree


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## Tr33Climb3r (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> like i said in another thread somewhere, everyone in my town and surrounding counties hooks trees. only arborists around here work for the city and this is what we say when we meet them :
> 
> 
> 
> arborists around here are just bookworms who think they know it all but never do the works themselves or are willing to sacrifice profit margins for 'what is good for the tree'. probably the only thing you would disagree with about me if we met is my ascention method, my cutting and rigging is for the most part above board



what are you talking about? what to you is "good for the tree"? so the work that you do....do you consider it better than those arborists that are bookworms? also you do realize that when you spike into a tree you break in to the cambium of the tree which is the area that connects the leaves to the roots...the tree has to go in great stress to seal over these wounds....because you damaged trunk tissue. 

Maybe you should move to Florida because you can spike palm trees without hurting them...because they are monocots not dicots

but what do I know I am just an arborist bookworm


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## Blakesmaster (May 7, 2009)

Frankly, I can't see any reason to spike a prune job. Does it take a bit longer to set up? Yes. But once you're up there it doesn't seem much different. You'll probably hear the hippies and huggas whining on and on in the next few pages about how awful it is for the tree...yadda yadda yadda. But when it comes down to business, it's something I can do that sets me apart from the competition. I said that to you before, asthesun. If you can't see spikeless prunes as a great sales tool ( not to mention skill to have as a climber if you ever wanna work for someone else ) I don't know what to say. Just think, man, there's a lot of ex-hippie, tree huggin' subarbanites out there with some serious bucks ready to hire the best. May as well try to be it.


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

Tr33Climb3r said:


> what are you talking about? what to you is "good for the tree"? so the work that you do....do you consider it better than those arborists that are bookworms? also you do realize that when you spike into a tree you break in to the cambium of the tree which is the area that connects the leaves to the roots...the tree has to go in great stress to seal over these wounds....because you damaged trunk tissue.
> 
> Maybe you should move to Florida because you can spike palm trees without hurting them...because they are monocots not dicots
> 
> but what do I know I am just an arborist bookworm



you know about trees, probably not central florida profit margins. only 1% of palms around here need to be climbed. most are < 55', the height of our bucket. mostly sables. the occasional washingtonian. i'll continue doing what i do, make money. you continue doing what you do, preach.


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## Raymond (May 7, 2009)

*Can't help but wonder as I go to bed...*

How many of you guys worry about a crap 
elm or silver maple 4 or more states away,
with a cigarette hanging from your lips?


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## slinger (May 7, 2009)

looks like 420 brand:jawdrop:


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## Blakesmaster (May 7, 2009)

Raymond said:


> How many of you guys worry about a crap
> elm or silver maple 4 or more states away,
> with a cigarette hanging from your lips?



I don't really give a crap about the trees, unless they're used to make the paper my money is printed on. If I can do something no one else can, I have an edge.


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## Blakesmaster (May 7, 2009)

Oh, btw, I also care about the trees used to make the paper for my cigs, lol.


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## TimberMcPherson (May 7, 2009)

And the hacks float to the surface. 
Pruning in spikes show the cowboy hacker to be a mix of ignorant, lazy or arrogant. They are either to fat and lazy to climb any other way, to ignorant to learn or to arrogant to relise that they are little more than door to door hacks with a bit more gear than your average illegal landscaper. Do you offer expert roof repairs and mowing to? Maybe you should start mowing so at least some of your trimming work will come out ok.

Better hope you clients remain more ignorant than you are.


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## LTREES (May 7, 2009)

Maybe he can't pull the jelly to the top of the tree. Can you do a pull up? You are what you eat, cup cake. :spam:

LT...


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## ddhlakebound (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> you know about trees, probably not central florida profit margins. only 1% of palms around here need to be climbed. most are < 55', the height of our bucket. mostly sables. the occasional washingtonian. i'll continue doing what i do, make money. you continue doing what you do, preach.



gotta love to hear about a town where all the "tree guys" (used VERY loosely) are in a race to the bottom to see who can bid the lowest and still find a way to profit. 

you're so busy looking down past your beer gut at your spikes that you can't even see the dollars being left behind because you're too lazy to not be a hack. 

what really makes me wonder, is how did you guys who say you don't care about trees end up in the tree business?

isn't that sort of like a vet who doesn't care about animals or a chef who could care less about food? 

do you have any personal pride? or is it as simple as it appears? a bunch of tree whores, ONLY out for the money with total disregard for the living tree that's paying your bills?


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

In any job that one takes the first priority is not to screw it up. Whether a plumber, carpenter or anything. Of course if you keep screwing up jobs and doing shoddy work its called hack in any profession.
While some of these hakcs brag about the money and make some of us feel bad like that its best not to buy into it. 
If one can truly say" They are just trees" then well, " it just pizza " or " its just a space ship" or " its just a hot water heater"

Spikers are hacks, this is a fact known worldwide to be true. Spikers who keep argueing that its Ok really should just let the tree work alone. If you spike every tree.... its sickening. Pathetic, weak, improper. 

Now I guess if its Ok to spike trees to you than I hate to see who does your plumbing, fixes your car, cuts your hair, does your taxes...

Of course I am not argueing here, just stating the facts, in fact you are actually argueing with yourself, I am just helping you do that.


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## canopyboy (May 7, 2009)

TimberMcPherson said:


> And the hacks float to the surface.
> Pruning in spikes show the cowboy hacker to be a mix of ignorant, lazy or arrogant. They are either to fat and lazy to climb any other way, to ignorant to learn or to arrogant to relise that they are little more than door to door hacks with a bit more gear than your average illegal landscaper. Do you offer expert roof repairs and mowing to? Maybe you should start mowing so at least some of your trimming work will come out ok.
> 
> Better hope you clients remain more ignorant than you are.



I hope he pulls off the spikes before repairing the roof though.... 'Course while mowing he can double bill as aerating the lawn....


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## ddhlakebound (May 7, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> sounds to me like its all about being a hack. spikes in, cash out, and on to the next one. who really cares anyway....they're only trees.



you did get that this was sarcasm, right The Dan?


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> you did get that this was sarcasm, right The Dan?



Yes.


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

TimberMcPherson said:


> And the hacks float to the surface.
> Pruning in spikes show the cowboy hacker to be a mix of ignorant, lazy or arrogant. They are either to fat and lazy to climb any other way, to ignorant to learn or to arrogant to relise that they are little more than door to door hacks with a bit more gear than your average illegal landscaper. Do you offer expert roof repairs and mowing to? Maybe you should start mowing so at least some of your trimming work will come out ok.
> 
> Better hope you clients remain more ignorant than you are.



And the hacks float to the surface like a bloated, lumpy turd. Hope to get a flush before the smell hits my nostrils.

Actually, if you hire someone to prune your trees and they spike it all up can't they be sued?


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## Raymond (May 7, 2009)

I am always pulling myself up in the tree.
I usually always carry my pruners or hanger puller and set my rope up high, and pull myself up not using my spurs. Hell I do it on removals even, just out of habit.
The ladder gets used on EVERY TREE up so high and I set my climbing line up above and usually again if not another time.

I'm like a lion in the jungle of life fellas. I have claws sure but I don't pull them out unless I need them.


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## ozzy42 (May 7, 2009)

Raymond said:


> OK I need to confess to something.
> I too use my spurs for most trees.
> The trick is to learn to keep it to a minimum.
> 
> ...


:agree2:
I wear them too,doesn't mean I stomp them in every time I move.Plus i use pole spikes most of the time.They are only trees people.


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> :agree2:
> I wear them too,doesn't mean I stomp them in every time I move.Plus i use pole spikes most of the time.They are only trees people.



who are these people who keep saying " they are only trees" ? Do these guys not fully appreciate the magnitude?


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

what does that mean anyway? If they are only tree then you are only a hack?

I love the guys who say that when they use spikes on a trim that they don't push in as much. THAT is a crock.
Now don't go forgetting who you are talking to, I am The Dan, yer not.


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## LTREES (May 7, 2009)

Floridians, I took pics. at Walt Disney World. I can't believe they let hacks in such a nice (expensive) park. Just talk the HO into taking them down and replanting something small enough to prune with your bucket trucks and ladders.

LT...


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## ozzy42 (May 7, 2009)

You tree huggers kill me with your holier than thou take on trees .

Most of you will cut down a good tree in a heartbeat,for the right $$.

Where is the TREE LOVE there?


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## Raymond (May 7, 2009)

*For what it's worth...*

Check the points on the Gecko's versus the old style spurs.

Keeping in mind the word *minimum*. When I am just pruning out a tree I have them but am totally cautious of what I'm doing and don't use them if I don't have to. Steadying myself using them in already open lower cuts, if that. You don't have to stomp them in.


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## ddhlakebound (May 7, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> You tree huggers kill me with your holier than thou take on trees .
> 
> Most of you will cut down a good tree in a heartbeat,for the right $$.
> 
> Where is the TREE LOVE there?



What in the world does removing a healthy tree which was slated for removal by it's owners have to do with using improper hackish methods on a tree which is not being removed?

Look, it's simple. If you spike trims because you're unwilling or unable to do it properly, you're a hack.


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## ddhlakebound (May 7, 2009)

Raymond said:


> Check the points on the Gecko's versus the old style spurs.
> 
> Keeping in mind the word *minimum*. When I am just pruning out a tree I have them but am totally cautious of what I'm doing and don't use them if I don't have to. Steadying myself using them in already open lower cuts, if that. You don't have to stomp them in.



Raymond, you don't have to. I can count on one hand the trims I've spiked since I left line clearance. Most of them were ice covered. 

If they're not stomped in, they're not doing their job, and can gaff out much more easily. Take 'em off, and join the light side, you can do it. You're barely using them anyway, right?


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## TheBeerGuy (May 7, 2009)

This thread just got me to thinking about moving out to the left coast and becoming a arboricultural acupuncturist. I can just smell the money oozing from those trees, and don't worry my therapies will help everyone here in another five to ten years.


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## Raymond (May 7, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> Raymond, you don't have to. I can count on one hand the trims I've spiked since I left line clearance. Most of them were ice covered.
> 
> If they're not stomped in, they're not doing their job, and can gaff out much more easily. Take 'em off, and join the light side, you can do it. You're barely using them anyway, right?


Right! 

I have all my weight on the ropes. I don't count on spurs for falling.
Just to keep myself steady when I'm sitting/standing still if I have to. If I have other ways (limbs to do this) I do that. 
Do I run up a tree using them if it's a prune job, NO. Like I said I set ropes higher, then I am and pull myself up. HELL I do this on removals as well. 

What I'm saying is *MINIMUM*, I just can't say that enough. You guys are welcome to come to KC and I'll take you to trees I've clean out and see if you can find one gaff mark.


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## ddhlakebound (May 7, 2009)

Raymond said:


> Right!
> 
> I have all my weight on the ropes. I don't count on spurs for falling.
> Just to keep myself steady when I'm sitting/standing still if I have to. If I have other ways limbs to do this I do that.
> ...



Exactly.....you don't need them. But because they're strapped on, you give the appearance of needing them. 

If you leave 'em in the truck, you give the appearance of being better at your job than the hacks who wear spikes to prune. 

If you leave them in the truck even when nobody is watching, you are better at your job than the hacks who spike trims. 

The true MINIMUM, after all, is zero.


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## ozzy42 (May 7, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> What in the world does removing a healthy tree which was slated for removal by it's owners have to do with using improper hackish methods on a tree which is not being removed?
> 
> Look, it's simple. If you spike trims because you're unwilling or unable to do it properly, you're a hack.



And if you remove healthy trees for no other reason than $$,you're a hypocrite.

I'd rather be a hack than an arrogent hypocrite.


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## ddhlakebound (May 7, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> And if you remove healthy trees for no other reason than $$,you're a hypocrite.
> 
> I'd rather be a hack than an arrogent hypocrite.



So now you're claiming that property owners should not have the right to decide what happens with the trees on their property?

Loggers harvest a renewable resource, specifically looking for the biggest and healthiest specimens to harvest, (for money), are they hypocrits too?

I've talked many propery owners OUT of removing a healthy tree. I've removed many other healthy trees that had to go. The guy who owned the tree said so. 

So if safely and efficently completing the job I was hired for is being an arrogant hipocrit, I'm down with that. 

I've had plenty of HO's ask me to cut down a tree that didn't need or deserve to be cut down, but you know what?

I've NEVER had a HO ask me to spike up their perfectly good tree.

I can understand where you're coming from tho.....it's tough being a hack and trying to avoid the fact. It makes those silly rationalizations you're coming up with seem justified.


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## LTREES (May 7, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> So now you're claiming that property owners should not have the right to decide what happens with the trees on their property?
> 
> Loggers harvest a renewable resource, specifically looking for the biggest and healthiest specimens to harvest, (for money), are they hypocrits too?
> 
> ...



:agree2::jawdrop:


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## LTREES (May 7, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> And if you remove healthy trees for no other reason than $$,you're a hypocrite.
> 
> I'd rather be a hack than an arrogent hypocrite.



Some people like to put additions on thier homes. :jawdrop:

LT...


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## ozzy42 (May 7, 2009)

LTREES said:


> Some people like to put additions on thier homes. :jawdrop:
> 
> LT...




And they have every right to.You missed the point.Its a tree.


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## tomtrees58 (May 7, 2009)

Raymond said:


> Check the points on the Gecko's versus the old s[/IMG]



hey are the stringer brooks spikes tom trees


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## Mapleman (May 7, 2009)

Guido spiked everything--well maybe not japanese maples--but he also thought a pole saw was a fishing gaff and pruning shears were for girls. The big G was brought up in a big tree culture on the west coast in the 70s where almost everything got spiked because the first branch was usually 40 feet or more off the deck, the trees with the exception of gums were thick barked, and there wasn't any big shots on hand to hit that first branch. Almost everyone I knew spiked blue gums. 

On the east coast I learned to climb spike less, using a throwing bag and a pole saw to advance my snap. The only trees I've prune-spiked are a few gnarly silver mapes with no central tie in and the occasional black locust. But I'll always use spikes as a last resort, and when I do I try to get up the first 35 feet with a ladder, then kick off my spurs once I'm crotched in.

Personally, I find climbing "clean" is healthier for both the tree and myself. And I find guys who rely strictly on their gaffs and are unwilling to learn to climb spike less, or are unwilling to change bad habits, to be either lazy or afraid or more interested in $$$ than in the health of trees or lacking any sense of aesthetics, or any combination of the above. If Guido were alive today, I'm sure he would do his pruning sans spikes. But hey, what do I know, I've only been in the business for 30 years...


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## tree MDS (May 7, 2009)

I love takedowns if thats what the customer wants - I spike em right up, love my gecko's. Take it down and dont dammage anything, thats what I'm getting paid for.

However, when someone takes an interest in paying me to prune thier trees, then I put on the arborist hat and do the right thing - no spikes, collar cuts and have a reason for what I'm cutting. I've never spiked a tree to prune it, thats just the way I was fortunate enough to have learned. Now I can understand someone being taught the wrong way and therefore being ignorant... but when you now know better and still insist on (and try to justify) doing it the wrong way, well then at this point you are a hack, plain and simple.

I guess this is what seperates the real treemen from the hacks. The hacks just dont have the commitment.

Raymond buddy, you seem like a good dude...but I couldnt take you to one of my prune jobs (not that I prune much), you spike prunes and yer just not respected around here, simple as that. Lose the spikes and the squirril tail. Well at least the spikes.

Florida has always been full of hacks for the most part. Something about the warm weather maybe?? I dunno.


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## Slvrmple72 (May 7, 2009)

I started out as a hack. No insurance, spikes, topping, and don't forget the ladder and crappy chainsaw. LOL!

Anyhow, like a small child starts out using training wheels to learn how to ride a bike and fights giving them up..... well, you get my "point"

Shigo has shown very clearly how spiking, like topping, is not the best thing for trees.

I will not tell you how to run your business but I will tell you from personal experience that as I have bookworm tendencies and learn from my mistakes I have seen a marked increase in my sense of pride for the quality work I have done as well as a marked increase in my profit margin. What I personally discovered was that by being able to offer better services and knowledge I was interacting with smarter customers who in their own professional fields garnered a better income and better quality of life without having to kill themselves workwise to make ends meet. That is something we all can appreciate.


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## tree md (May 7, 2009)

Like I said, I used to spike everything because that is the way I was taught. However, I hate to see a pretty Pin Oak or Beech or something like that with gaff marks in them. Regardless of whether or not it's bad for the tree it's just plain ugly. It not too hard to do a spikeless prune and usually only takes a little more time to do. I use a ladder a lot to get to the first branch and climb from there. I hip thrust, trunk walk or limb walk where I need to. Most trees where I live have a low canopy and it's relatively easy to get to the first branch. Put a micro pulley behind your friction hitch and use a friction saver. Anytime you can reduce friction it makes it easier to get up and around the tree without spikes. Set a good High TIP and it's really not too hard to get where you need to go to make your cuts. I carry a loop runner and biner up with me for redirects and to get a foothold. People are becoming more educated about pruning of trees and often ask whether or not you spike your prunes. The condo complex I take care of made me aware that spikeless prunes was a requirement of the job before I ever placed my bid. Spikeless prunes are the future of tree care. I want to be ahead of that curve, not behind it.


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## T.L (May 7, 2009)

*hooks no hooks*

Some towns and citys here in MD have there own arborists, they fine you between 15 & twenty-five $ for each hook mark,on a live tree. Special exceptions my apply if your reason is good enough but then watch out, they will be on every job you do for awhile. You can hook a tree if it is thicked bark and the first limb is to high to reach with your throwing bag, they are getting much strickter now then before and those tall poplars that have the first limb over 60' up, and have been lion tailed for the last twenty or so years, yeh the hooks come in handy, but be looking over your shoulder the man might be watching, and yeah 30 + years in the trees I can find hook marks in most of them, and at times you say WHY NOT , the answer I guess is the old guy that made the marks is now writing the rules and he don't care, shinney on out there boy it ain't bad. Although with the tools we use today and the new techniques you can get anywere without hooks , shins don't look so good at the end of the day but rules are rules and climbers are climbers. point is a good climber gets it done with or without hooks, just another day another tree.


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## ClimbinArbor (May 7, 2009)

well treemandan called it. would you like me to put your ass in a bucket when i hand it to you or do you just want it thrown on the ground and danced around on.........

The best way that i have found to explain why you shouldnt spike up prune jobs(to HOs and employees) is this. Imagine the tree as a giant living pin cushion. Now how would YOU feel if you were said pin cushion?? you would feel even worse when those holes filled with insects that brought you a new microbial friend....

The whole put yourself in the tree's shoes works well. especially when discussing topping. "imagine growing up to be 20 years old and having someone cut off half of your arms."


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

T.L said:


> Some towns and citys here in MD have there own arborists, they fine you between 15 & twenty-five $ for each hook mark,on a live tree. Special exceptions my apply if your reason is good enough but then watch out, they will be on every job you do for awhile. You can hook a tree if it is thicked bark and the first limb is to high to reach with your throwing bag, they are getting much strickter now then before and those tall poplars that have the first limb over 60' up, and have been lion tailed for the last twenty or so years, yeh the hooks come in handy, but be looking over your shoulder the man might be watching, and yeah 30 + years in the trees I can find hook marks in most of them, and at times you say WHY NOT , the answer I guess is the old guy that made the marks is now writing the rules and he don't care, shinney on out there boy it ain't bad. Although with the tools we use today and the new techniques you can get anywere without hooks , shins don't look so good at the end of the day but rules are rules and climbers are climbers. point is a good climber gets it done with or without hooks, just another day another tree.




The quickest way to the top of a tall poplar?

Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueler?


SRT

Hell, even if I am going to TD one and want to get to the TIP first I am going to top rope it .


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

I also agree with mapleman that climbing unfettered is DYNOMITE!!!


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## T.L (May 7, 2009)

*quickest way to the top*

Maybe you misunderstood me or I wasen't clear. I didn't say hooks are the fastest way to the top or that you should use them. Here were I work you can get fined for each hook mark in the tree, thats a heck of a determent for using them. Count the hook marks X 15 to 25 dollars a hole and your broke. thats just in some towns or citys though, most guys here have said they use them or have used them occasionaly not as a habit as the original guy who posted this is claiming to do, maybe he just wanted to here everyone argue. Although I see there isn't a lot of disagreement , Hook a removal , trim without them.


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

Raymond said:


> Check the points on the Gecko's versus the old style spurs.
> 
> Keeping in mind the word *minimum*. When I am just pruning out a tree I have them but am totally cautious of what I'm doing and don't use them if I don't have to. Steadying myself using them in already open lower cuts, if that. You don't have to stomp them in.



you need to sharpen those long before they get to that point. it'll save loads of energy. i sharpen mine weekly and all i do is step, dont need to stomp, except for hard dry dead stuff


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> And if you remove healthy trees for no other reason than $$,you're a hypocrite.
> 
> I'd rather be a hack than an arrogent hypocrite.



:agree2: this. you do it your way, we do it our way. stop preaching pls. i wont change upon demand. the jehovas whitnesses figured that out eventually


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> *So now you're claiming that property owners should not have the right to decide what happens with the trees on their property?*
> Loggers harvest a renewable resource, specifically looking for the biggest and healthiest specimens to harvest, (for money), are they hypocrits too?
> 
> I've talked many propery owners OUT of removing a healthy tree. I've removed many other healthy trees that had to go. The guy who owned the tree said so.
> ...



no, they dont. not around here anyway. technically the homeowner is supposed to contact the city and have an arborist come out to determine whether the tree can be removed. does anyone do this? no of course not, they want their tree out and we want to take it out.


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I love takedowns if thats what the customer wants - I spike em right up, love my gecko's. Take it down and dont dammage anything, thats what I'm getting paid for.
> 
> However, when someone takes an interest in paying me to prune thier trees, then I put on the arborist hat and do the right thing - no spikes, collar cuts and have a reason for what I'm cutting. I've never spiked a tree to prune it, thats just the way I was fortunate enough to have learned. Now I can understand someone being taught the wrong way and therefore being ignorant... *but when you now know better and still insist on (and try to justify) doing it the wrong way*, well then at this point you are a hack, plain and simple.
> 
> ...



i make no bones about it. no justification needed save for this: spiking is easier and faster. time=money. i'm in it for the money and money alone.


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## tree MDS (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> i make no bones about it. no justification needed save for this: spiking is easier and faster. time=money. i'm in it for the money and money alone.



I thought you said you work for someone else??

What does your employer give you bonusses based on how many trees you butcher up per day or something??


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## kennertree (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> i make no bones about it. no justification needed save for this: spiking is easier and faster. time=money. i'm in it for the money and money alone.



Doing it right=more money in the long run. If you'll use your head you will make more money.


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I thought you said you work for someone else??
> 
> What does your employer give you bonusses based on how many trees you butcher up per day or something??



i work for someone else and i sub for several different ppl. when i'm done on the sub jobs, i get to go home paid in full. at my full time job, i was hired because i am pretty fast, experienced and i dont tear stuff up.


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## kennertree (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> i was hired because i am pretty fast, experienced and i dont tear stuff up.



Except for the trees you prune.


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## treeseer (May 7, 2009)

/slvrmpl72: "I will tell you from personal experience that as I have bookworm tendencies and learn from my mistakes I have seen a marked increase in my sense of pride for the quality work I have done as well as a marked increase in my profit margin. What I personally discovered was that by being able to offer better services and knowledge I was interacting with smarter customers who in their own professional fields garnered a better income and better quality of life without having to kill themselves workwise to make ends meet. That is something we all can appreciate."

 The cream rises to the top, and breathes free. The hacks sink with the dregs, and drown. Your choice.

I've worked central florida from gainesville to cocoa, from st. augs to sanibel. i never had to spike prunes just to save precious seconds and get in under the next bidder. That's whack, Jack, which rhymes with...

asthesun, Rain Main, your asses got handed to you 2 pages ago. Anyone can limbwalk without spikes if they learn to use redirects (aka a second rope). Try it, you'll like it.

Climbing without spikes is a lot more fun, and makes a lot more money.


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## tree MDS (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> i work for someone else and i sub for several different ppl. when i'm done on the sub jobs, i get to go home paid in full. at my full time job, i was hired because i am pretty fast, experienced and i dont tear stuff up.



The way I see it "pruning" a tree with spikes on and then bragging about how fast you are is like dropping a tree on the house and the saying how quick the job went.


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

treeseer said:


> /slvrmpl72: "I will tell you from personal experience that as I have bookworm tendencies and learn from my mistakes I have seen a marked increase in my sense of pride for the quality work I have done as well as a marked increase in my profit margin. What I personally discovered was that by being able to offer better services and knowledge I was interacting with smarter customers who in their own professional fields garnered a better income and better quality of life without having to kill themselves workwise to make ends meet. That is something we all can appreciate."
> 
> The cream rises to the top, and breathes free. The hacks sink with the dregs, and drown. Your choice.
> 
> ...



i can limbwalk without spikes. i choose not to. in what way was my ass handed to me? you havent made me mad or anything. while you're busy setting a rope from the ground, i'm rapelling down to the first limb. while you're busy monkeying with your second rope, i'm out on the limb doing the work. time=money. if i was a recreational climber and wanted to climb the same tree over and over, i prolly wouldnt use spikes. spikes really dont hurt a tree that much when you trim every 6mos or 2 years, depending on how often your customer calls you back. i've done estimates for many different companies around here and have only run into maybe 3 or 4 customers that wouldnt let me spike their trees in 9 years. for those few, i give them the number of a tree hugging marine buddy of mine and he comes and overcharges by a third or a half since its going to take him that much longer to do the work


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## tree MDS (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> i can limbwalk without spikes. i choose not to. in what way was my ass handed to me? you havent made me mad or anything. while you're busy setting a rope from the ground, i'm rapelling down to the first limb. while you're busy monkeying with your second rope, i'm out on the limb doing the work. time=money. if i was a recreational climber and wanted to climb the same tree over and over, i prolly wouldnt use spikes. spikes really dont hurt a tree that much when you trim every 6mos or 2 years, depending on how often your customer calls you back. i've done estimates for many different companies around here and have only run into maybe 3 or 4 customers that wouldnt let me spike their trees in 9 years. for those few, i give them the number of a tree hugging marine buddy of mine and he comes and overcharges by a third or a half since its going to take him that much longer to do the work



Hey dude, let me let you in on a little secret...

You suck!!!!


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Hey dude, let me let you in on a little secret...
> 
> You suck!!!!



let me tell you a little something too...
I dont care what you think about me!!!!


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## tree MDS (May 7, 2009)

Well we have come to an understanding then.

Next time yer up there "pruning away" maybe you will think of what you read here before you think you are all that sunny boy. 

You are doing it like a hack with every little step kid...every day and with every little step. 

lol.


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Well we have come to an understanding then.
> 
> Next time yer up there "pruning away" maybe you will think of what you read here before you think you are all that sunny boy.
> 
> ...



sticks and stones. i'm 6'3", i dont take small steps, not on the ground and not in the tree. not metaphorically either


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## jefflovstrom (May 7, 2009)

*sued*

I am the operations manager of a very respected tree care company in southern california and all our job specs express work done by ansi standards.
If spikes are used on other than removals or rescue, I am breaking the contract. If you climb with spikes here, you are not my competition,You are a HACK! Anyone who thinks it is o.k. will not get the jobs that matter and will be struggling for old ladys with a little money any their competition are other hacks. Time is money, sure, but a Hack's time is not the same as a tree care pro's time.
Jeff
Climbing since 1977 and isa certified.(un-like a hack)


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

jefflovstrom said:


> I am the operations manager of a very respected tree care company in southern california and all our job specs express work done by ansi standards.
> If spikes are used on other than removals or rescue, I am breaking the contract. If you climb with spikes here, you are not my competition,You are a HACK! Anyone who thinks it is o.k. will not get the jobs that matter and will be struggling for old ladys with a little money any their competition are other hacks. Time is money, sure, but a Hack's time is not the same as a tree care pro's time.
> Jeff
> Climbing since 1977 and isa certified.(un-like a hack)



you live a world away from me. cali is overpriced and florida in under-policed (tree police). i cant get away with it there and you couldnt charge what you charge here


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

kennertree said:


> Except for the trees you prune.



AAAHAA! Nice one. Sunny's logic is failing, it must be broken down.


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## jefflovstrom (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> you live a world away from me. cali is overpriced and florida in under-policed (tree police). i cant get away with it there and you couldnt charge what you charge here



I don't want to get under anyone's skin, but I bet if you educate clients, the word will get out and you will earn more respect. Leave the hacks behind and deal with quality customers or , well,,,,,,
Jeff


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

jefflovstrom said:


> I don't want to get under anyone's skin, but I bet if you educate clients, the word will get out and you will earn more respect. Leave the hacks behind and deal with quality customers or , well,,,,,,
> Jeff



if i did, i'd have to bid higher since the work would take longer and there'd be no way to compete. you wont get under my skin as long as you are respectful even though you disagree with my practices. tolerance you know?


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> you live a world away from me. cali is overpriced and florida in under-policed (tree police). i cant get away with it there and you couldnt charge what you charge here



We see your point but are you up for a raise? For one, the statement " I spike all my trees " is so inane, it makes no sense... only to the blind perhaps or the stupit for sure.
Whatever your demographic you are going to come across many trees YOU SHOULD NOT SPIKE. maybe if you told us THEY made you do it we would be more forgiving.


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## jefflovstrom (May 7, 2009)

Just saying that guys that don't care are not my competition and they are usually just hustling for the low bid. I get it, but we are in different worlds it seems. 
Jeff


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## tree MDS (May 7, 2009)

treemandan said:


> AAAHAA! Nice one. Sunny's logic is failing, it must be broken down.



"Sunny Boy", that aint bad eh dan-o?? lol


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## gr8scott72 (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> i've done estimates for many different companies around here and have only run into maybe 3 or 4 customers that wouldnt let me spike their trees in 9 years. for those few, i give them the number of a tree hugging marine buddy of mine and he comes and overcharges by a third or a half since its going to take him that much longer to do the work



Wiat, you're in it for the money and yet YOU even admit that customers that don't want it spiked are willing to pay more? :monkey:

Sounds like a way to get MORE money out of a customer that insists on no spikes to me.

And it's probably only 3 or 4 because you don't try to sell them on the spikeless method.

I don't even climb trees but do find this discussion interesting.


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## TreEmergencyB (May 7, 2009)

T.L said:


> Maybe you misunderstood me or I wasen't clear. I didn't say hooks are the fastest way to the top or that you should use them. Here were I work you can get fined for each hook mark in the tree, thats a heck of a determent for using them. Count the hook marks X 15 to 25 dollars a hole and your broke. thats just in some towns or citys though, most guys here have said they use them or have used them occasionaly not as a habit as the original guy who posted this is claiming to do, maybe he just wanted to here everyone argue. Although I see there isn't a lot of disagreement , Hook a removal , trim without them.



hey now i started this thread and i dont spike prunes i was complaing my new boss does...and today he pruned 3 small very little maples, with spikes and get this no handsaw? he used his chainsaw for every inch cut and all i couldnt belive it, i wouldnt even had a chain saw in any 1 of them trees my silky can cut anything...just about


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## gr8scott72 (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> :agree2: this. you do it your way, we do it our way. stop preaching pls. i wont change upon demand. the jehovas whitnesses figured that out eventually



The spikelss group didn't come knocking on your door. You came to their Kingdom Hall. lol


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## TreEmergencyB (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> if i did, i'd have to bid higher since the work would take longer and there'd be no way to compete. you wont get under my skin as long as you are respectful even though you disagree with my practices. tolerance you know?



but if you did your work would be so much *better* than the other hacks then u charge more and still get the job over hacky becuase people actully care what they got to look at.
and your the tree guy if you tell the HO spikes are bad thats why you dont do it they will think, and talk to their friends, till one of their freinds goes "o my tree guy uses spikes, whats your guys number?"


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## treeseer (May 7, 2009)

Sun-burned, if you ever went to see a tree-climbing competition, you would see a lot of spikeless climbers who are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than you. And you might relax your refusal to shed your foot-prickers (which is like a car mechanic refusing to put down his hammer)

Not sure who you've compared to up to now.

You just missed one in Ocala, but try Sarasota in June.

PS Books do not bite.

PPS Floridians are wising up, and many of the wisest on tree care are able and willing to pay for quality work.


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## asthesun (May 7, 2009)

TreEmergencyB said:


> but if you did your work would be so much *better* than the other hacks then u charge more and still get the job over hacky becuase people actully care what they got to look at.
> and your the tree guy if you tell the HO spikes are bad thats why you dont do it they will think, and talk to their friends, till one of their freinds goes "o my tree guy uses spikes, whats your guys number?"



ok i'm done talking about this. you get my points and i get yours, we just disagree. i spiked up a hackberry today to tie in and rapell down to a dead cherry. every time i stabbed the tree it made a screaming sound, also did that while i cut every sucker on the way up with my ms250.  for good measure i punched it right in the face while the customer went inside to write me a check


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## TreEmergencyB (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> ok i'm done talking about this. you get my points and i get yours, we just disagree. i spiked up a hackberry today to tie in and rapell down to a dead cherry. every time i stabbed the tree it made a screaming sound, also did that while i cut every sucker on the way up with my ms250.  for good measure i punched it right in the face while the customer went inside to write me a check



i heard it sreaming from hear all im say is yes you can compete with the low ballers by setting your self apart from them, yea call them "hacks" in front of the HO, tell them why ur a better service, also if they will spike your trees they probally wont clean up as nice or make correct cuts, the HO dont know if they will or not but they will belive you because your telling them that and your the tree guy and in a couple months you will be just as fast w/o them as u were with them. I was taught right i have never had to spike a tree not to be removed and it dont take me all day to prune a big tree, and ive only been climbing for 5 months or so.


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

asthesun said:


> ok i'm done talking about this. you get my points and i get yours, we just disagree. i spiked up a hackberry today to tie in and rapell down to a dead cherry. every time i stabbed the tree it made a screaming sound, also did that while i cut every sucker on the way up with my ms250.  for good measure i punched it right in the face while the customer went inside to write me a check



what in Heaven's name is a ms250? Iam going to look that up


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## jefflovstrom (May 7, 2009)

TreEmergencyB said:


> but if you did your work would be so much *better* than the other hacks then u charge more and still get the job over hacky becuase people actully care what they got to look at.
> and your the tree guy if you tell the HO spikes are bad thats why you dont do it they will think, and talk to their friends, till one of their freinds goes "o my tree guy uses spikes, whats your guys number?"



Thats what I was saying, thanks Tremergecy- it is not cheap to live in San Diego,Ca., and if you rip people off and try to take advantage of them or don't let them know that you will be spiking their trees (because it is faster ) and don't tell them the damage you will be doing only to make it faster and cheaper (because you don't know), BTW, If you spike trees here, you will soon be hoping some old lady will give you 20 dollars so you can at least get by in life.
Jeff


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

TreEmergencyB said:


> Started at a new company about a 10 days ago boss was gonna prune little maple tree after we removed 2 cherrys. he asked for his climbing gear so i grabbed his belt and rope set it by the tree. About 5 mins later he goes "hey, wheres my spikes?"...o no, i said,"i thought u said u was going to prune that tree?"
> "i am i need my spikes please"
> 
> 
> so unforntly i let myself get a job with a hack, he said he spikes just about all prune jobs kinda glad im there now he said he dont like to prune. i told him i loved it after i seen that, hopefully i can save some from the tradgy!!



Sound like a good shot. Sorry to put you off about it. its funny some don't know... or don't care.


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

I swear a searched but ms250? No, didn't come up. Is this some kind of saw?


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## jefflovstrom (May 7, 2009)

treemandan said:


> what in Heaven's name is a ms250? Iam going to look that up



It is the weaker and cheaper HO saw, the 260 is for work.
Jeff


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## Mapleman (May 7, 2009)

sun dude,

If you're still out there, try this out. Prune spike less for two weeks and get back to us.

I've done quite a bit of work in FLA--learned the ropes in J-action-ville where I worked for Farrens (the biggest tree service in the southeast at the time--and we never prune spiked, even when side trimming pines for line clearance--in fact we had to hide our gaffs beneath the chipper truck seat). I've also climbed in Tallahasse, the Panhandle, Miami, Orlando, Mt. Dora, Lakeland--you get the picture. I lived in Gainesville too. You're not fooling anyone by saying that everyone you know prune spikes or that the HOs don't know any better or that you couldn't make a good living climbing clean. There's plenty of intelligent, affluent HOs who would be receptive to it if you offered. Just think of the college crowd--professors and such--around UF.

If you're only in it for the money, so be it, but in my book you're not a true tree man. A true tree man is a tree care professional, and prune spiking ain't tree care, no matter how you slice it.

Try rope climbing, bro, you'll love it. In fact, take two ropes up with you, you'll doubly love it...


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## jefflovstrom (May 7, 2009)

*Heard that!!!*




Mapleman said:


> sun dude,
> 
> If you're still out there, try this out. Prune spike less for two weeks and get back to us.
> 
> ...



Heard that!
Jeff


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## Rftreeman (May 7, 2009)

O NO!!! Here we go again........:deadhorse:

opcorn:


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## Raymond (May 7, 2009)

:Eye::Eye:


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> O NO!!! Here we go again........:deadhorse:
> 
> opcorn:



What? How can you say that? Didn't anyone like the rip on the 250? Come on, i thought we were rolling for a minute and cleary the guy has no remorse.


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## treemandan (May 7, 2009)

jefflovstrom said:


> It is the weaker and cheaper HO saw, the 260 is for work.
> Jeff



didn't mean to hook ya.


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## Rftreeman (May 7, 2009)

treemandan said:


> What? How can you say that? Didn't anyone like the rip on the 250? Come on, i thought we were rolling for a minute and cleary the guy has no remorse.


I thought the 250 was a dirt bike....


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## yibida (May 8, 2009)

*Back to school*

Athesun, OK. I wasnt goin to jump in on this one but being an ARBORIST- that still climbs I couldnt help myself. I'll keep it simple, use spikes when removing and be spikeless when pruning & if it gets a little hard to do that perhaps get some accreditation or better yet peruse some forum history on compartmentalization of decay in trees.


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## TimberMcPherson (May 8, 2009)

yibida said:


> Athesun, OK. I wasnt goin to jump in on this one but being an ARBORIST- that still climbs I couldnt help myself. I'll keep it simple, use spikes when removing and be spikeless when pruning & if it gets a little hard to do that perhaps get some accreditation or better yet peruse some forum history on compartmentalization of decay in trees.



No your not talking his language, he only comprehends if you add dollar signs. He hasnt worked out hes not really an arborist yet.

If your hired as a proffessional and you do something you know to be wrong to just to take in more money and decieve you clients into allowing you to do it, doesnt that make you a fraud/shyster/conman?


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## treeseer (May 8, 2009)

asthesun said:


> ok i'm done talking about this. you get my points and i get yours, we just disagree.


Nope sorry we do not get your "points"--they are not really points because they are tooo dull. This confirmed by your inability to defend any of them. They were BS, like all the other hack hype we hear here from time to time.

If you were open to learning you could have set a line and pulley in that hackberry from the ground, and inverse-removed the dead cherry. Safer, easier, cleaner and More Profitable...Hello in there, helloooooo.


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## Bermie (May 8, 2009)

I think he's taken his teddys and gone home...

What's not to get about the money angle, do things right, charge MORE money, go home happy, leave a happy tree and customer...
As for needing the spikes for positioning, never heard of loop runners/slings? I always carry two or three to put in a foothold on a prune when there isn't a handy branch or stub, SO easy
Dude, try a split tail on your system, makes changing postions easy, maybe thats why the spikes are felt to be necessary, can't be bothered to change your TIP because it means untying and retying the whole shebang so just dig in the spikes and stretch? ...try it, its a revelation!


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## Blakesmaster (May 8, 2009)

TimberMcPherson said:


> No your not talking his language, he only comprehends if you add dollar signs.



I don't think he even understands that, it's been laid out several times for him how it's just as, if not more, profitable to spikeless prune, but the voices in his big head must be too loud or something. Forget asthesun, he's a lost cause, but I bet we can get Raymond to start doing the right thing. Whaddaya say, Ray? You wanna give it a shot for ####s and grins? You already know you don't NEED them. Why not up the anti for the local boys, eh?


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## rbtree (May 8, 2009)

asthesun said:


> i make no bones about it. no justification needed save for this: spiking is easier and faster. time=money. i'm in it for the money and money alone.



So, you gaff trees, as well as palms? Palms aren't trees.

If so, you are a hack, period. And 25 years behind the times...

As well, in a huge trunked tree, any pro arborist will be in the top, working, while you're still struggling to make it up.

Same goes for many trees where it's easy to set a line. An accompished foot locker would also blow your sorry asz out of the water.


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## treemandan (May 8, 2009)

rbtree said:


> So, you gaff trees, as well as palms? Palms aren't trees.
> 
> If so, you are a hack, period. And 25 years behind the times...
> 
> ...



I guess if I had to drag the dam leg irons out every dam time I would have quit a long time ago.


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## treemandan (May 8, 2009)

Really.


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## treeseer (May 8, 2009)

Bermie said:


> As for needing the spikes for positioning, never heard of loop runners/slings? I always carry two or three to put in a foothold on a prune when there isn't a handy branch or stub, SO easy
> Dude, try a split tail on your system, makes changing postions easy, maybe thats why the spikes are felt to be necessary, can't be bothered to change your TIP because it means untying and retying the whole shebang so just dig in the spikes and stretch? ...try it, its a revelation!



Yup, handed to him again, and this time by a woman. :agree2:

Cmon guys, watch a TCC or work with an experienced climber; so much to learn, for all of us!


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## Raymond (May 9, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I don't think he even understands that, it's been laid out several times for him how it's just as, if not more, profitable to spikeless prune, but the voices in his big head must be too loud or something. Forget asthesun, he's a lost cause, but I bet we can get Raymond to start doing the right thing. Whaddaya say, Ray? You wanna give it a shot for ####s and grins? You already know you don't NEED them. Why not up the anti for the local boys, eh?


I do plan to TRY and leave them in the truck box, on my prunes. 
I like the way I have my new handsaw attached to them though.
Besides I don't really get alot of them.. more hammer slams on the 
house sides or removals.

I never used them on small trees I could reach down and get 
my handsaw from my groundman though. 

But yeah I do like you guys, so I'll do it for you K? Beside 
I just have like 4 friends on my buddy list, I don't
want anyone to pull their names, on me.


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## Raymond (May 9, 2009)

tomtrees58 said:


> hey are the stringer brooks spikes tom trees


Yeah they are from Stringer but not sure about the brooks you mentioned. 
I just have the one point here and not the whole spurs anymore.
If you can use it I'll send it to you.


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## tree md (May 9, 2009)

We used to call those Brooks spikes. They are made by Stringer Brooks. That is if they even make them anymore. Haven't seen a pair in years.


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## Raymond (May 9, 2009)

tree md said:


> We used to call those Brooks spikes. They are made by Stringer Brooks. That is if they even make them anymore. Haven't seen a pair in years.


 Yeah I PMed Tom in case he missed that post.
I have no use for it anymore. 

Beside I hated dealing with Stringer back then. They treated the tree guys like crap 
and gave the utility guys price breaks and all kinds of free goodies. 
I was glad to see they shut down here...piss on'em.


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## tree md (May 9, 2009)

I never climbed in them but knew a few that used them. The were cheap as hell, I remember that. I was climbing in Kliens back then.


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## Mapleman (May 9, 2009)

My first pair were Kleins too then switched over to Bashlins.


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## TreeClimber57 (May 9, 2009)

tree md said:


> I never climbed in them but knew a few that used them. The were cheap as hell, I remember that. I was climbing in Kliens back then.



I have been doing this for 30 years and I don't think I ever saw a pair!! My first experience, and for the longest time were Klien, which I still have. I also have some Buckinham and Wolfclaw. They are great if and when you need them, but you do not always need em.. and you got to know the difference -- for you and the tree.


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## Rftreeman (May 9, 2009)

I just let my finger & toe nails grow long then I can climb like a cat and not damage the tree.


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## LTREES (May 9, 2009)

Raymond said:


> I do plan to TRY and leave them in the truck box, on my prunes.
> I like the way I have my new handsaw attached to them though.
> Besides I don't really get alot of them.. more hammer slams on the
> house sides or removals.
> ...



It ain't so bad. You'll get the hang of it quick. 

LT...


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