# Felling in Connecticut



## Dalmatian90 (Nov 26, 2011)

Stumbled across this guy today, has a few more videos if you follow the link to Youtube from the embed.

Very typical of our woodlands here. The forester was really stingy with his blue paint to mark the trees though.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TCtidLeG1zk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## Gologit (Nov 26, 2011)

He might find things a bit easier with a longer bar. Quicker too. Too much monkey-motion running around the tree like that. A Humboldt face with an angled snipe would have rolled the tree just as well and he would have a lot less wasted wood on the money end of the tree. He needs to look up a little more, especially when he's wedging.

Better than HBRN, though. :smile2:

Nice ground you have back there. Nice and flat, no brush, thin timber. Easy way to go.


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## hammerlogging (Nov 26, 2011)

thanks for the post. not necessarily how I'd have done it, but classic east coast no less. definately how I'd have done it 5 or 6 years ago.

Rolling a tree w/ and open face risks slabbing the log from the hinge up. removing the sapwood on the sides of the hinge helps that. closed faces increase risk of fiber pull. He pulled his rendition off, guess that counts for credit.


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## Cletuspsc (Nov 27, 2011)

Looks pretty standard for around here but I would have punched out the center.


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## LumberjkChamp (Nov 27, 2011)

Gologit said:


> He might find things a bit easier with a longer bar. Quicker too. Too much monkey-motion running around the tree like that. A Humboldt face with an angled snipe would have rolled the tree just as well and he would have a lot less wasted wood on the money end of the tree. He needs to look up a little more, especially when he's wedging.
> 
> Better than HBRN, though. :smile2:
> 
> Nice ground you have back there. Nice and flat, no brush, thin timber. Easy way to go.



Where's HBRN's vid. Did I miss it? You're just joking aren't you?


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## Gologit (Nov 27, 2011)

LumberjkChamp said:


> Where's HBRN's vid. Did I miss it? You're just joking aren't you?



I would never, ever joke about something like that. And please, for your own sake, don't watch any of HBRN's vids. Why torture yourself? :msp_biggrin:

He's on permanent vacation from AS but we figure he'll come slip-sliding back in here one of these days with another user name. He's kinda like herpes, the symptoms go away but the disease is there forever.


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## Dalmatian90 (Nov 27, 2011)

> And please, for your own sake, don't watch any of HBRN's vids. Why torture yourself?



In case he is into sadomasochism:

http://www.arboristsite.com/tree-care-videos/175303.htm

I hope to hell that, other then the plumber's crack, I don't look like that when I'm cutting. Edited to add: I actually know I don't. Left the video playing while I went into the kitchen so I was just listening and not seeing the video...realized if my saw sounded like that out in the woods, my neighbor would come over and take it away from me


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## Gologit (Nov 27, 2011)

Dalmatian90 said:


> In case he is into sadomasochism:
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/tree-care-videos/175303.htm
> 
> I hope to hell that, other then the plumber's crack, I don't look like that when I'm cutting. Edited to add: I actually know I don't. Left the video playing while I went into the kitchen so I was just listening and not seeing the video...realized if my saw sounded like that out in the woods, my neighbor would come over and take it away from me



:hmm3grin2orange: I hope you realize what you've done. LumberjkChamp will never be the same now. I think everyone who was exposed to HBRN's videos should be eligible for some kind of counseling...just to get them back to normal.


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## s219 (Nov 28, 2011)

Dalmatian90 said:


> In case he is into sadomasochism:
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/tree-care-videos/175303.htm




Holy cow, that was brutal. I think I have seen bike chains saw better than whatever dull cutters he was running that day.


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## Joe46 (Nov 28, 2011)

s219 said:


> Holy cow, that was brutal. I think I have seen bike chains saw better than whatever dull cutters he was running that day.



You were warned!:msp_rolleyes:


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## forestryworks (Nov 28, 2011)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Stumbled across this guy today, has a few more videos if you follow the link to Youtube from the embed.
> 
> Very typical of our woodlands here. The forester was really stingy with his blue paint to mark the trees though.



There's always a handful of foresters out there who can't mark timber to save their life. If only every timber marker had a season or two in the woods...



Gologit said:


> He might find things a bit easier with a longer bar. Quicker too. Too much monkey-motion running around the tree like that. A Humboldt face with an angled snipe would have rolled the tree just as well and he would have a lot less wasted wood on the money end of the tree. He needs to look up a little more, especially when he's wedging.



Agreed.

The log will be scaled from the small end up to the yellow line anyhow.


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## Cletuspsc (Nov 28, 2011)

.

The log will be scaled from the small end up to the yellow line anyhow.



[/QUOTE]

Not true, the face is in the slab wood. I don't know of a single mill around these parts that would deduct for that. The mills here in the North East promote the use of the GOL methods.


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## Gologit (Nov 28, 2011)

Cletuspsc said:


> .
> 
> The log will be scaled from the small end up to the yellow line anyhow.



Not true, the face is in the slab wood. I don't know of a single mill around these parts that would deduct for that. The mills here in the North East promote the use of the GOL methods.[/QUOTE]

It must be the difference between East and West. Out here if I sent a log like that to the mill they'd probably set it out where everyone could see it and write my name on it. :msp_biggrin: 

The mills here want a straight cut on the butt log and as much of it as possible. Wasted wood is frowned on.

Do the mills back there really _promote_ GOL techniques or do they just accept the results?


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## forestryworks (Nov 28, 2011)

Cletuspsc said:


> The mills here in the North East promote the use of the GOL methods.



That might be the problem then.


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## Cletuspsc (Nov 28, 2011)

Yea they do, the mill that Im cutting for right now will pay for you to get the training if you don't already have it. It saves them a pile of money in insurance. Also its now a requirement to go threw the GOL training to be a certified logger in NYS. 

I don't necessarily follow the training to the letter, it works much of the time but some times its just not needed or it wont let the tree do what you want. I get a kick out of how a lot of guys from out west bash the open face and swear by the humboldt where around here its just the opposite. 

The issue with the humboldt notch is it tends to pull a lot of fiber when the tree leaves the stump especially on our hard woods. Its hard to get a low stump (like ground level) and have very open face using it as well.


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## bitzer (Nov 28, 2011)

Myth! Cast the wool aside! 
Shameless promotion of my own work. Only pull fiber on the swing and make sure it be from the stump!





















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## forestryworks (Nov 28, 2011)

Cletuspsc said:


> The issue with the humboldt notch is it tends to pull a lot of fiber when the tree leaves the stump especially on our hard woods. Its hard to get a low stump (like ground level) and have very open face using it as well.



What a load of hogwash!


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## Sport Faller (Nov 28, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> What a load of hogwash!



That guy just stepped on his own #### by rollin into the logging forum and ####talkin a humboldt and tryin to pimp GOL


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## slowp (Nov 28, 2011)

Maybe he got thumped with the GOL axe handle?


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## bitzer (Nov 28, 2011)

What bugs me the most about the video (other than the wedges that don't fit in the wedge belt) is that A: he cuts the same wood twice and B: why bore when you know its going to sit back? Once you get your wedges in you have all day to square up to the hinge. Also if there is no other tree to glance off of, what then? Or, have fun when you hang the other side of that fork up.


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## madhatte (Nov 28, 2011)

Seems like an awful lot of work pushing that saw around backwards and against the rotation of the chain when there's two perfectly good dawgs there for leverage in the other direction... even IF he insists on boring to set the hinge. I'll never get that nuance of GOL falling. Just seems like good Newtonian physics gone to waste.


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## Gologit (Nov 29, 2011)

madhatte said:


> Seems like an awful lot of work pushing that saw around backwards and against the rotation of the chain when there's two perfectly good dawgs there for leverage in the other direction... even IF he insists on boring to set the hinge. I'll never get that nuance of GOL falling. Just seems like good Newtonian physics gone to waste.



Yup...a lot of extra work for nothing. Speaking of which, I'm headed up the hill. You kids play nice, now.


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## Oldtimer (Nov 29, 2011)

Gologit said:


> The mills here want a straight cut on the butt log and as much of it as possible. Wasted wood is frowned on.



That must be why every tree I see cut out west has a tail pulled out as it leaves the stump?

[video=youtube;-Wgpn_xV0qc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wgpn_xV0qc&t=3m19s[/video]

[video=youtube;1ThpyhxD64c]http://youtu.be/qzxscW64bb0?t=34s[/video]

[video=youtube;sZVTuCTM9bI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZVTuCTM9bI&t=1m42s[/video]

[video=youtube;qzxscW64bb0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzxscW64bb0&t=34s[/video]


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## forestryworks (Nov 29, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> That must be why every tree I see cut out west has a tail pulled out as it leaves the stump?



EVERY tree? Can you see Russia from your house, too? :monkey:


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## Cletuspsc (Nov 29, 2011)

Lol you guys really get goin. Im not trying to say the humboldt dosent work or any thing like that, its been around long enough to have proven its self as the go-to way to fell on the west coast. Im saying its something that is not used around here because it dosent work as well on our timber. If it did I would think it would be used, as for the GOL I will never tell ya its the only way or that its better than your way, it is just a training organization trying to promote safer logging practices.


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## Gologit (Nov 29, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> EVERY tree? Can you see Russia from your house, too? :monkey:



LOL...Oldtimer wants to be a timber faller when he grows up.


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## Gologit (Nov 29, 2011)

Cletuspsc said:


> Lol you guys really get goin. Im not trying to say the humboldt dosent work or any thing like that, its been around long enough to have proven its self as the go-to way to fell on the west coast. Im saying its something that is not used around here because it dosent work as well on our timber. If it did I would think it would be used, as for the GOL I will never tell ya its the only way or that its better than your way, it is just a training organization trying to promote safer logging practices.



Good reply. There are several variations on the Humboldt that might work for you but I understand what you mean about using what works. And what you're comfortable with.

As far as GOL goes..the main thing we have against it is the way they present it as an absolute guarantee that the tree will do exactly what you want it to do. The trees don't read the book.
The bore cut is a good tool to have, I've used it on head leaners...but in our timber it's generally too slow and doesn't offer any real advantage.

East vs. West...it goes on forever. :smile2:


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## slowp (Nov 29, 2011)

Gologit said:


> Good reply. There are several variations on the Humboldt that might work for you but I understand what you mean about using what works. And what you're comfortable with.
> 
> As far as GOL goes..the main thing we have against it is the way they present it as an absolute guarantee that the tree will do exactly what you want it to do. The trees don't read the book.
> The bore cut is a good tool to have, I've used it on head leaners...but in our timber it's generally too slow and doesn't offer any real advantage.
> ...



But it wasn't presented as that. Not at all. Maybe they put on a different version here. Maybe I interpreted it differently than others. No mention was made that the tree will do exactly as you want it to do. In fact, we usually just gunned the trees to the way they wanted to go--Except the LOGGER I worked with had to swing one around, and I had to be there to assist. That's scary when it is somebody out of the blue and you know nothing of their skill level. :eek2:

It was a safety class, and was geared for beginners like me. There is another level class, but I don't consider myself as needing or doing more, until I cut a heck of a lot more trees. I don't think that is going to happen.


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## Gologit (Nov 29, 2011)

Dunno...the GOL people I've had dealings with, and worked with, were very rigid in their methodology. The trees weren't falling where their training said they would and they blamed the resultant mess on the trees. They wouldn't change their tactics. I traded them in at lunch time for a couple of guys who didn't have formal training...just real-world experience.

I had a PM discussion with one of our Eastern brethren and he said that GOL taught him that by using their methods he was sure to get satisfactory results. It took him a couple of close calls before he found out that what he was taught doesn't always work every time.

Maybe your class toned down the GOL dogma. They've been trying to establish a foothold out here for a long time and haven't met with much success.


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## RandyMac (Nov 29, 2011)

DogMa


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## slowp (Nov 29, 2011)

Is that a recent outbreak of new rat dogs?


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## RandyMac (Nov 29, 2011)

Nope, that was a while back, that fuzz tailed pup at the 2010 GTG was one of those.


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## Cletuspsc (Nov 29, 2011)

Yea level 1 is kinda a joke. . . .like as in this is how to file a chain and basic stuff but its meant for small land owners/home owner types. level 2 gets in to hazard trees things like spring poles, top locks, trees with funky lean and proper felling to reduce hazards. 3+4 are all about production and job lay out and saving out high quality wood.

When I took the classes I went into them with a pretty crappy attitude and I didn't get much of any thing out of it save for a few things like some tricks for spring poles. But eventually I started to try out some of their ideas and some work great some not so much. I like to TRY to keep an open mind for the most part.

off topic but any one know if the new wild ass pants are like the old ones?


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## hammerlogging (Nov 29, 2011)

fooey.

I think all of the sensible ones more or less agree, without agreeing.

Atleast in southern appalachia, GOL advances have worked to lessen faller fatality or work ending injury becasue its the latest thing since, say, stumpjumpin, the side band swarp notch, and other unfunctional or altogether lacking hinge concepts.

I'll be one to say again that it is a good foundation. Foundation is step one for a new faller. Esp. if hes isolated and has nobody worth a #### to train him all the nuances as he goes but is sent out there day 1 to get some wood. I prefer Randy's dogma though.

the video showed how that guy "boxed out" the tree. a little excessive. different trees call for different measures. you can humbolt anything. you do run a greater chance of fiber pull or busting with some trees than others, where you would not have any of this with the openface bore cut- like white oak and hickory. Maple, ash, poplar, cherry, red oak, basswood, cucumber, etc., these do fine with a closed face as with the humboldt. Knowing what to use when to optimize your production is what its all about.


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## bitzer (Nov 29, 2011)

Once again Hammer, that voice of reason! Come on, White oak and hickory can get a humboldt too! You just have to be a little... "creative." You're right though, production is the bottom line.

Tools in the tool box. 

The bull#### mindset of hardwood country.

The thought of letting someone cut for me some day scares the #### out of me, especially if they had no type of training. I'd make them follow me around for about a week while I cut and even then I'm not sure if I could turn them loose. I've personally never had any kind of training. I've never even cut with someone who really knows what they are doing. Ok I've read a couple of books and picked some brains on here. The rest has just come from making a lot of stumps and observations. Physics. What I can and can't do. What I can get away with. Common sense. That and the triggering of an unstoppable train of events that sends you running for your life. I generally learn (earn) things the hard way.


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## Gologit (Nov 30, 2011)

bitzer said:


> Once again Hammer, that voice of reason! Come on, White oak and hickory can get a humboldt too! You just have to be a little... "creative." You're right though, production is the bottom line.
> 
> Tools in the tool box.
> 
> ...





Teaching somebody to fall can be nerve wracking. I've taught some guys and, mostly due to their good attitude, they came out alright. But you still wonder sometimes if you told them enough and showed them enough.

What you said about "common sense" is true. That's half the job. Learning something from your mistakes is key, too.

There are less and less young guys that want to be fallers. And less jobs for them, too. With so much mechanical cutting we always seem to have an over-supply of fallers around here and some guys have left the business altogether. A guy with some skills, a good reputation, and some connections can still make a pretty good living but a guy just starting out will have a hard go of it.

If you hire a faller you'll need to remember that they'll never ever do it just exactly the same way you do. That's not necessarily bad and if their results are good and they're doing the job you just have to let them go about things their own way. It's hard to do, though.


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## bitzer (Nov 30, 2011)

Gologit said:


> Teaching somebody to fall can be nerve wracking. I've taught some guys and, mostly due to their good attitude, they came out alright. But you still wonder sometimes if you told them enough and showed them enough.
> 
> What you said about "common sense" is true. That's half the job. Learning something from your mistakes is key, too.
> 
> ...



I'll bet its tough to send someone out there. Even if they have cut for a while. I'm not planning on having anyone cut for me for sometime, but I've been talking with my cousin about skidding for me. When he can't skid though he'd probably want to cut. I had him play around with the machine one day at my last job and I showed him a 4' dbh red oak that I'd be cutting soon after. He wanted to know how I would get that thing down. My uncle says he can cut. I kinda laughed when he said it, not to be an a-hole, but theres a big difference in just cutting trees and getting them to lay out. The majority of his cutting experience has involved an excavator as his wedge. I could never just turn him loose with a saw. No way. There are just way to many things that could happen and will.


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## upstateny (Nov 30, 2011)

Seems like a typical faller from around here. Except, rarely do you see a guy go in the woods around here with more than one wedge.

As far as the scale being knocked down because of the face, we have never been scaled "down" due to having a face cut visible in the scaled wood.


As far as Humboldt versus conventional notches; I use what works, what I'm comfortable with at the moment and what fits the bill. Humboldt becomes standard when cutting pine for me, why I dont really know. It works, "feels" faster than a conventional, and usually I'm stuck in the steeps working where dad doesnt want to cut!


As far as the tree in the video, our boss would have a FIT over cutting the bell off like that. Alot quicker and less cutting to simply "snip" the corners of the hinge. Heres what I mean using a conventional notch. Make the top cut, make the bottom cut, before heading for the back cut, follow the bottom cut around and snip the hinge in about 1-1/2" to 2" on each side. A tree that size I would take a slight step towards the far side, line my bar up with the "snip" made and lett'er sing. Couple extra steps with you feet, as my saw passes through the back (directly behind the notch) set a wedge (if the skidder isn't there or I feel the need to "control" it more) and continue with the cut. Typically as I'm getting closer to finishing the back cut or can "feel" the tree moving, set the wedge in better and finish the cut. When I'm happy with the hinge wood left, then commence to giving the wedge a few love taps.


Just my worthless couple of shiny's.

Happy Cutting!


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## LumberjkChamp (Dec 7, 2011)

My apologies. I have been working late in the evenings at home to get some projects done and I had failed to remember this thread. 

I guess I had missed HBRN's video the first time around. I'm glad I did. I only got through the first two minutes of it before closing the window and coming back here. Now, you can't fault a guy for posting a vid. of himself. But, you can fault him when it becomes clear, as in HBRN's case, his skill level isn't what he said it is. This became apparent when watching the vid. 

I am no pro. But, if I were to post a vid. of myself after talking like one, I'd make sure it was a little more accurate at demonstrating my proficiency.


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## slowp (Dec 7, 2011)

My proficiency is so poor that I don't want anybody near enough to video! :msp_ohmy:


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