# Sorting wood from multiple fallers



## bitzer (Dec 6, 2013)

Here is the scenario- My skidder op is back full time on Monday after a several month hiatus. I've been skidding all the wood and cutting some in the mean time. Icepick has been cutting a couple days a week and will continue to. Whats a good way to keep our wood separate from the woods to the landing? When I'm picking up the wood I know the approximate bf and cords I'm bringing out, but my operator really has no clue as of yet. Just not enough seat time. I'm thinking of flagging off cutting corridors and then having the operator separate the piles on the landing. What is typically done to keep a fallers wood separate if they are getting paid by volume? Any suggestions would be helpful. Well, other than to go **** myself.


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## twochains (Dec 6, 2013)

I always marked my butt ends with (3) chainsaw marks to keep my work seperate on the landings. Did this with ERC and actually everything else.

Oh yeh, is it cooler if I would have said...

tl;dr "I have a potty mouth"? LMAO


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## Gologit (Dec 6, 2013)

Use a lumber crayon and scribble your initials or a code number on the butt. Clint's idea of a saw mark is a good one too.


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## redprospector (Dec 6, 2013)

The stud mill used to make us mark the butt of the tree with a lumber crayon. Had to put our initials, date, & tree #. Something like this.
AO
12/6/13
77
When the saw boss would give us a "pep talk" about upping production, I'd tell him "sorry, I'm too busy doing inventory to cut more logs".
That was a little overkill if you ask me. I think what Clint, and Bob said would suffice.

Andy


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## hammerlogging (Dec 6, 2013)

you're bucking for a forwarder, you'd have to scale so many logs on the stump, plus the auditing. Its silly to me, you know who is cutting what day in and day out, and what their other values are to the company, so day wage them accordingly. Less time marking and measuring and more time falling and they can make more money than if they were scaling. Daywaging, fairly.


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## Keen (Dec 6, 2013)

I agree with hammer, I'm guessing you would be scaling the logs in the separate piles not on the stump though(that's a PITA if they're random length)? You would have 2 piles for each cutter? pulp and logs? Seems like alot of messing around. I worked for weekly pay cutting before and it worked out well.


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## 1270d (Dec 6, 2013)

I've sawed for hourly pay on a short wood job with other cutters. The boss knows what your worth anyhow and it made the decks and trucking a lot simpler. 

Otherwise is it feasible to assign units or blocks to each faller? Or one side of the road is yours one side is mine?


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## twochains (Dec 6, 2013)

It's easier for us due to we sell in tree length, so marking takes like an extra second. Someone might ask, "Why mark your logs at all?" Well, if you and another cutter are cutting day rates nd you are running through 9 tanks er so and the other cutter is running 4 tanks....and you are the only one that knows it....that will make you explode eventually...take my word for it! Every crew I have ever worked for, I have out produced who ever I was working with. It gets ridiculous really, people would try and claim pieces of my cut. I was forced to start marking my timber. On the landing is when your boss will see what has been going on. When 3/4 of the logs have your mark....questions will be asked.


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## Spotted Owl (Dec 7, 2013)

Unless its' day wage, it's date or scale and initials on the butt, and a small snipe on the butt for poles. Usually it's day wage, scale here is to iffy when the sheets come back and a lot of the "newer" saw boss's don't really understand scale it seems now days. They just know mill sheets and day book tallies don't match. They also don't want to mess with it. Seems the only ones who do much complaining about the crayon are the ones who don't like being checked up on. Takes all of about 15 seconds to handle that. Ya I know time adds up but that time adds up to maybe two trees a day. If two trees is a big deal then you need another job. Just remember the mill will never scale in your favor or even at a wash. Heck we got one guy around here that wants to pay or grade ablility by fuel usage, he's pretty lonely.

If he's a less experienced operator, make it real simple for him. He'll have enough going on already. BUT be sure that everyone agrees before it gets started.



Owl


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## HuskStihl (Dec 7, 2013)

Ya probably pay ol' ice pick 7.25 an hour and be done with it

Isn't it just you two doing the cutting? I'll bet you know pretty much what you did in any given day


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 7, 2013)

most of the logs around here have crayon marks on them like Gologit mentioned ,i think Twochains would go through a lot of crayons though


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## lmbrman (Dec 7, 2013)

With two processors in the woods, we sometimes keep separate piles, but sometimes pay is hourly base plus so much each cord, depending on the job. Small wood around here. It sometimes gets fuzzy- so I can see where a good system might be nice, if it can be done without hiring a manager for it.


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## DavdH (Dec 7, 2013)

The better fallers will (do) initial their logs some times just because they are proud of them and doin' a great job, the ones that won't are well the other guys.


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## lmbrman (Dec 7, 2013)

DavdH said:


> The better fallers will (do) initial their logs some times just because they are proud of them and doin' a great job, the ones that won't are well the other guys.


 
I wish we had stuff large enough to initial  The run we are in now is about 15 trees makes a cord of wood.


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## hammerlogging (Dec 9, 2013)

gives me more to think about, but its not only the fallers time, its the auditing and paperwork. I already know whose stumps are whose 98 of 100 times.


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 10, 2013)

yea, most guys here still jump. every one knows my stumps lol. I used to hire out a guy to fall some, he kept a written record of his "feet" ........he was allways over lol.


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## bitzer (Dec 10, 2013)

On Monday I flagged the area Icepick had cut and I may end up doing it that way. Took me about 10 minutes and I had the skidder op pick up all his wood first. Then I was able to count logs and scale up the pulp pile. I've got log counts down to a science almost. I can figure logs/load against the scale within a few hundred feet usually. If I had a cutter working for me on a full time basis I may consider day waging him, but then again it kind of limits his potential earnings cutting volume. Another issue is I can only pay out when the wood gets hauled. Logs are picked up regularly enough or I can take a draw on the pile and I usually get a check every week. Sometimes the pulp/firewood sits on the landing for several weeks though due to lack of truckers. Most truckers in the area are chasing processor crews and don't have a lot of time for my putsy couple of pulp loads a month. So the pay is kind of split up. I really have to scale the wood on the landing anyway to figure out what I've got and by now I'm pretty close every time. Icepick and I also count our logs and trees in the woods with tally counters. I've got mine on my wedge belt suspenders and I did that to up my own production when I was cutting/skidding alone. Having no competition I kind of had to create a way to out do myself in order to up production otherwise it would get kind of stale after a while. I like knowing how many trees I've cut or need to cut, how many logs per tree, and it also gave me a good idea of what I needed to pick up with the forwarder. Anyway its a pretty good all around check and balance system. I don't really want Icepick or any future cutters to waste their time as well as the forwarder operator. We are all out there to make money. If anyone has time to putz around and hang flagging at this point its me. Of course there is a lot of trust with all parties involved and I know I've got some pretty good guys. I think they trust me as well and I'd like to keep it that way. I want to make sure everyone is getting paid and happy (or at least satisfied) with how things are working out. Like everyone knows who has done any kind of logging it seems like you just cut/skidded a **** ton of wood and they hand you a stack of nickels at the end of the day for it.


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## HuskStihl (Dec 10, 2013)

Dude I'd cut for you in a second. I just wish Clint had a boss like you.


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## bitzer (Dec 10, 2013)

I dunno Jon I can be a real *******! Well at least that's what my wife says .


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## HuskStihl (Dec 10, 2013)

bitzer said:


> I dunno Jon I can be a real *******! Well at least that's what my wife says .


That's only cause ya knocked her up so many times!


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 10, 2013)

wives have to call ya that.....I think it in their contract lol.


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## redprospector (Dec 10, 2013)

I always preferred working by scale, or by count. Gives a man incentive to get as much as possible done. I don't even mind working by the acre if I have to.
Most folks have a tendency to work on cruise control when working by the hour. Do enough that no one accuses them of chasing the dog, but there's a lot left on the table.
Some of the guy's that have worked for me, I've worked with before and I know they could produce more. Everyone seems to like to work by the hour these days.
Day pay, and hourly is generally figured on an average. I have always been able to produce above average in quantity and quality. So I don't like settling for average, and I don't want to be associated with anything that's mediocre.

Andy


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## Keen (Dec 10, 2013)

Yep, you got the handful of nickels right .... I started my day by getting pulled over for speeding, 66 in a 55 mph zone. Get to the job site and put the bear claws on the skidder and we see a county truck pass by and hit its brakes. They turned around and pulled in and start telling me that I needed some kind of permit since log trucks are entering the job site and leaving it, which I never heard of but its the first time I logged in this county. Then they start measuring my skidder to see if its over width. Pretty bizzare. So I gave them the number for the timber buyer on the job. He calls me up later and says "You should of told them to get lost" So I finally get to dropping some trees, put a big basswood down. I get it choked up for the skidder and it brakes the 10 ft choker. So I rap two eight footers around it then it brakes a eight foot choker. Crazy thing is I still love my job and cant see doing anything else. Good to hear its working out for you bitzer.


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## Gologit (Dec 10, 2013)

redprospector said:


> I always preferred working by scale, or by count. Gives a man incentive to get as much as possible done. I don't even mind working by the acre if I have to.
> Most folks have a tendency to work on cruise control when working by the hour. Do enough that no one accuses them of chasing the dog, but there's a lot left on the table.
> Some of the guy's that have worked for me, I've worked with before and I know they could produce more. Everyone seems to like to work by the hour these days.
> Day pay, and hourly is generally figured on an average. I have always been able to produce above average in quantity and quality. So I don't like settling for average, and I don't want to be associated with anything that's mediocre.
> ...



There isn't a lot of busheling any more around here. There aren't that many boots on the ground, either. The machinery guys are all hourly but with the competition for jobs they usually put out a good amount of work.
Most of the fallers are day wage and once they know what's expected of them they seem to do alright. Again, it's a case of too many men for the available jobs and if they're on a good show they want to stay working.

But you're right too...there was always a little more hustle when you're working by the foot.


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## tramp bushler (Dec 12, 2013)

To be accurate you either need the strips sorted so they can be scaled on the landing . Or scale every log in the brush . As you have lots of short logsscaling every one of them in the brush would be too time consuming. . Sounds like keeping the strips seperated on the landing works good as long as the landing is big enough .


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## slowp (Dec 12, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> To be accurate you either need the strips sorted so they can be scaled on the landing . Or scale every log in the brush . As you have lots of short logsscaling every one of them in the brush would be too time consuming. . Sounds like keeping the strips seperated on the landing works good as long as the landing is big enough .


 
Yay, you're back! Post more of them Alaskanian pictures please.


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## HuskStihl (Dec 12, 2013)

Welcome back Glen. Hope you're staying warm! All the best from houston


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 12, 2013)

great to hear from you Glen. hope things are well and hope to hear from ya again soon!


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## redprospector (Dec 12, 2013)

Gologit said:


> There isn't a lot of busheling any more around here. There aren't that many boots on the ground, either. The machinery guys are all hourly but with the competition for jobs they usually put out a good amount of work.
> Most of the fallers are day wage and once they know what's expected of them they seem to do alright. Again, it's a case of too many men for the available jobs and if they're on a good show they want to stay working.
> 
> But you're right too...there was always a little more hustle when you're working by the foot.


 
Yeah, I have a hard time accepting change sometimes...well, ok, most of the time.
Those were some good day's..............Ok, now let's see what we can make happen tomorrow. 

Andy


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## Gologit (Dec 12, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Yeah, I have a hard time accepting change sometimes...well, ok, most of the time.
> Those were some good day's..............Ok, now let's see what we can make happen tomorrow.
> 
> Andy



Yup, I know what you mean. This business has changed so much and so fast that a guy had better keep up or he'll get left in the dust. We don't have to like it, and sometimes I sure as hell don't, but we have to be able to adjust.


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## tramp bushler (Dec 17, 2013)

not really back. money is pretty tight so cut way back on my web use. . sellin a saw over on the for sale thread


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## IcePick (Dec 19, 2013)

It's easy Bob. Just look for the fiber pull and logs that look like they're cut by a green faller. Them would be mine!


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## JakeG (Dec 19, 2013)

Log branding hammer & orange paint.


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## HuskStihl (Dec 19, 2013)

IcePick said:


> It's easy Bob. Just look for the fiber pull and logs that look like they're cut by a green faller. Them would be mine!


I'll PM you some of my private falling pics to make you feel better!


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## bitzer (Dec 20, 2013)

IcePick said:


> It's easy Bob. Just look for the fiber pull and logs that look like they're cut by a green faller. Them would be mine!



I started cutting that big timber job this afternoon. Some really nice red and white oak. A lot of em bar length or better on the stump (my bar length). Definitely a woods to bring yer "A" game too. I hope you can get out there before I dump all those pickles.


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## HuskStihl (Dec 20, 2013)

bitzer said:


> I started cutting that big timber job this afternoon. Some really nice red and white oak. A lot of em bar length or better on the stump (my bar length). Definitely a woods to bring yer "A" game too. I hope you can get out there before I dump all those pickles.


I'm on my way!


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## JakeG (Dec 20, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> I'm on my way!



Ditto. I'll bring a few racks of ribs and some brews... For afterwards of course


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## bitzer (Dec 20, 2013)

I keep wondering how many more big timber jobs are left out there. I found this one on a dead end road. The foresters keep telling me we are running out of em. They "over cut em" a little bit back in the 60s. Bastards.


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## northmanlogging (Dec 20, 2013)

people have been telling me for years there is no money in logging... I seem to be doing ok at it though...


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## NW.log.cutr (Dec 20, 2013)

i sure like scale but my day wage works fine


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## lmbrman (Dec 21, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> people have been telling me for years there is no money in logging... I seem to be doing ok at it though...



heck, there is LOTS of money in logging- the key is KEEPING some of it 

-dave


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## bitzer (Dec 21, 2013)

There is money in logging. I've seen it, held it, spent it. A lot better than a lot of other jobs. The key is keeping everything running long enough to enjoy it before you have to spend it again.


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## NW.log.cutr (Dec 23, 2013)

There's plenty of money in this industry. I worked up in Oregon for skyline thinning I been tending hook on a big Washington 188 for a couple years before and that wad some hard work big blocks and big skyline I was making 13 an hour.I started as a chaser with skyline on a little diamond with out a processor. Making 17.50. Month later told then I'm a slinger not a chaser so I started pullin riggin again but these guys were paying 19 an hour well my last 6 months there I was tending hook making 20 a hour. ........your right there's no money in logging


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## NW.log.cutr (Dec 23, 2013)

G


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 23, 2013)

ssshhh, don't tell no body man.


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## NW.log.cutr (Dec 23, 2013)

Oops


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