# Why ddrt over srt for beginners?



## Savan (Sep 16, 2015)

Hi gang-
I've done some reading on srt vs ddrt and there are a bunch of posts that say don't touch srt until you're comfortable w/ ddrt. Why is this? 

Great site here I've found it HIGHLY educational. I'm a complete newb and did my first "low ascent" yesterday in my back yard. My goal is to do light pruning (anything I can do w/ no rigging) of some old oaks on our property. I'm practicing low w/ 9mm sterling accessory cord. No i'm not crazy or stupid I've already order a 120' hunk of arbor plex. I've heard mixed reviews of the arbor plex but hey, i'm only going to use it at most a handfuls of times/year and for $70 and treestuff's 10% off code I couldn't resist.

As I said my first "ascent" was yesterday about 20' and it was srt w/ 
-blakes (no split tail but I like the idea) 
-a diy foot loop
-swiss seat + black diamond screwgate

Yes the swiss seat sucked but I thought the setup was pretty straight forward. Foot loop was crucial as i tried locking first and didn't like it. lazy maybe (but i don't think so)? 

Also, Any suggestions for a cheap harness for a person in my situation? I don't want to spend $ on a pro harness for a few times/year.

*disclaimer, i'm only pruning trees in my back yard that have no clearance issues. I have 3 trees in the front over the house and power lines that pros will do.

Thanks for reading!


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## Savan (Sep 16, 2015)

so i think I cleared something up to myself. What I did was actually the "traditional method" described in the companion; which i guess is ddrt, 1 rope double technique.

but, i *am* still curious about why ddrt first-


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## Nish (Sep 17, 2015)

srt does tend to require additional equipment not needed for ddrt (simple ascenders), or more expensive equipment ("hybrid" devices that can be used for srt and ddrt), or more coordination and skill (like foot-locking with a simple friction hitch).


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## Del_ (Sep 17, 2015)

Savan said:


> so i think I cleared something up to myself. What I did was actually the "traditional method" described in the companion; which i guess is ddrt, 1 rope double technique.
> 
> but, i *am* still curious about why ddrt first-



Lots of reasons. 

Just do it and in time you will see why.


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## Wayne Wilkinson (Oct 12, 2015)

Because all that kit for SRT is nice, but should anything fail, you should know the basics to get your *** out of the tree. DDRT can be preformed with nothing but a hank of rope.


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## Fireaxman (Nov 26, 2015)

More simple and therefor less confusing( no transition to worry about from ascender to descender), less gear intensive and therfor cheaper, and DdRT is easily belayed from the ground, and therefor safer. A ground person can keep you from falling and also assist you in ascending simply by putting their weight on the opposite side of the line from the side tied in to your saddle.


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## arborist23 (Jan 24, 2017)

Savan said:


> Hi gang-
> I've done some reading on srt vs ddrt and there are a bunch of posts that say don't touch srt until you're comfortable w/ ddrt. Why is this?
> 
> Great site here I've found it HIGHLY educational. I'm a complete newb and did my first "low ascent" yesterday in my back yard. My goal is to do light pruning (anything I can do w/ no rigging) of some old oaks on our property. I'm practicing low w/ 9mm sterling accessory cord. No i'm not crazy or stupid I've already order a 120' hunk of arbor plex. I've heard mixed reviews of the arbor plex but hey, i'm only going to use it at most a handfuls of times/year and for $70 and treestuff's 10% off code I couldn't resist.
> ...



always better to learn the basics, DRT is still very quick for removals. SRT in my opinion is better for more technical climbs, (redirects, rope management etc.)


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## Heavy26R (Jan 27, 2017)

Just a thought, replace that screw gate with a triple autolock if it's lifeline support.


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## Robert Cuilty (Feb 19, 2017)

There are several reasons for not climbing SRS (Stationary Rope System) before mastering MRS (Moving Rope System). As many have previously stated, simplicity is a key factor. While MRS systems can be very complex the basic idea is easier to grasp for a beginning climber. At the very least, you can literally climb off of a rope alone using a mid-line bowline as your saddle with a long tail to tie a blake's hitch (Not OSHA compliant or recommend). As a safety side note: Think about who is coming to rescue you in a potential situation. Your system needs to be simple enough for them to understand... not you. Another important aspect of switching to SRS are the climbing system dynamics. This is where most accidents occur. Not understanding the physics behind loading a branch or system in a different configuration. Basal anchoring puts twice the force on the TIP, while canopy anchoring is similar to MRS but not always most efficient. Apart from dynamics we have the problem of technique. Climbing SRS can be far more technical during the retrieval on difficult limbwalks. You are advised to work the tree from the outside in rather than the traditional walking out from the trunk method while in an MRS system. I could talk about this all day so let me leave you with one final point. In an MRS system you can practice work positioning while cutting with greater confidence. Why, you ask? Say you start out climbing SRS an basal anchoring. Every move you make with that handsaw or chainsaw has a much more significant chance of killing you. Just one mental slip that your basal line is around the other side of the trunk and you are free falling. You need to become aware of the normal hazards and how to work safely around those before adding more complexity and additional hazards to your climb. Be safe and climb high!
EDIT: I would also like to give you a bit of history that may lend some insight into the potential difficulties of the SRS's. SRS was developed by rock climbers and cavers. These systems were employed mainly to up and down, not side to side so much. So think about how you prune a mighty oak tree. There is a ton of side to side typically. Therein lies the problem for most climbers. Overcoming that limitation in the system requires a lot of practice and creativity. I love SRS for climbing to my Tie In Point or TIP, and then will often switch back to MRS if difficult limbwalks are required. I also often double crotch using both systems in the tree since with SRS isolating a single crotch is not necessary (your groundsman which is garbage with a throwball can set you lines now lol). Both work great!


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## greengreer (Feb 20, 2017)

Everyone should have to endure body thrusting for at least a year before they get to go srt, it's only fair.
Seriously, I think its important to get into as simple a system as possible so they will always have those skills, then go to srt when you can afford the upgrade. Yes it's more gear intensive but it really is just that much better.


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## gemniii (May 19, 2017)

greengreer said:


> *Everyone should have to endure body thrusting for at least a year before they get to go srt*, it's only fair.
> Seriously, I think its important to get into as simple a system as possible so they will always have those skills, then go to srt when you can afford the upgrade. Yes it's more gear intensive but it really is just that much better.


I'm really new to climbing trees with rope and devices. But I don't think it's necessary to practice making fire from tinder before I cook a steak. Before I was 24 I was often up in a tree. About 2009 I got back into climbing trees to trim and take down around my properties, but even then it was usually a ladder for part way up and a rope for climbing in the trees. With more properties I acquired more buildings with trees above them that need limbing or felling.

Now I've about 30 or 40 trees I need to "prune" or "pull down" that due to hazards (neighbors fences, shed, chimneys etc.) require at least educated homeowner action.
About a month ago, at the top of a 24' ladder and needing to go up another 10 feet I realized a good harness and some good rope was probably a good idea. So I came here to look into what was needed.

And I stumbled across ascenders, descenders, rope walking, frog walking etc. Watching YouTube vids of some of these guys and gals rope walking up 100' with what looks like just a little more effort than climbing a ladder is fascinating.

I'm not going to spend 3 months "foot locking" up trees when a few hundred dollars will get a minimal quality set of ascenders, descenders and associated devices to put together a micro-frog system. Know how to do foot locking (did it), like I know how to build computer chips from sand and metal (did it), but don't want to do it for my next laptop.


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## Jim Timber (May 19, 2017)

Check out the webinar from yesterday and you'll see why I immediately gravitated towards single rope as well.

Kevin makes a lot of good points about how SRT is more functional aloft than DRT. He also shows some tricks to avoid having to buy extra gear.



My yard trees are all short and bushy just like what he experienced down South, so he was speaking my language from the start. I'm lucky to get my throw bag back down, much less isolating a single limb. Starting off a ladder is actually not a bad idea.


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## coltree (May 24, 2017)

Tradition is the main reason, imho. There is the real concern of a newb climbing over their TIP and falling off the back side. I am going to have to learn MRS/MRT/ddrt shortly because I have to do some crane work and no one has discovered a good way to ride the ball SRT. I've been climbing professionally for 4 years and never thought I should be doing anything but SRT/SRS, and never did anything besides that.


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