# Pulling stumps without machinery



## ZachAK (Oct 27, 2014)

A buddy of mine lives on an island here in Alaska where getting heavy equipment out to his property is very expensive.

The biggest stumps are around 48" Sitka Spruce. The rootwads on these are massive.

A griphoist with block and tackle took three days for a single stump in lots of little pieces.

Anyone have any ideas for bigger equipment that isn't crazy expensive or heavy?

Thanks in advance.


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## Gologit (Oct 27, 2014)

Explosives.


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## ZachAK (Oct 27, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Explosives.



Great suggestion. Apparently it's gotten pretty complicated between barging them up here, storing, and who controls explosives, sadly.

Anyone ever seen one of these? Over on ebay there's a hundred year old Stump Puller


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## northmanlogging (Oct 28, 2014)

Yup old farts used em to pull stumps around here, back before color TV... by the way they are hardly rare, and not worth 650 bones... just saying. Also they still had to split the stumps up before pulling them.

Other wise explosives... Its a pain in the ass but better than digging and hacking for the rest of your life, Its possible to get in touch with a licensed blaster, and have them blast the stumps, a day or three of labor, as long as they can get to ya... without swimming...

As far as blasting yourself, the license isn't so bad, not really any different then a federal fire arms license (like a dealer or class III go fast button stuff), the real trouble comes in storage and transportation.... not to mention the paperwork.

A magazine for storage is a fairly substantial building, a day box not so bad, not cheap but doable. 

Anyway probably saying to much... but contact some local logging outfits that also build roads, they should be able to help you out.


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## ZachAK (Oct 28, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Yup old farts used em to pull stumps around here, back before color TV... by the way they are hardly rare, and not worth 650 bones... just saying. Also they still had to split the stumps up before pulling them.



Thanks! Good to know that the stump puller is overpriced. Looks like it's been for sale for a long time.

Point taken about splitting the stump first. We're lucky to have big powersaws today.

Interesting about the explosives license. Worth looking into, or chasing someone down for.

I really appreciate your time. Great advice.


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## Humptulips (Oct 28, 2014)

If you are just talking spruce you might be able to char pit them out. That was an old method the settlers used mostly on Fir stumps but I have heard of it being employed on spruce. Simple enough, just dig out underneath and get a good hot fire going, then cover it up and keep it covered. Any smoke comes out you have to cover it with dirt. it will smolder along and burn the roots leaving the stump sitting on top of the ground. Likely take 4 ,5 months to burn out a stump and you have to check it several times a day.
Not sure how that would work in SE AK but they used the method here in W WA. Something to think about.


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## OlympicYJ (Oct 28, 2014)

I'd say blasting is probably your best bet. How many stumps need to go? I'll try and use an analogy with the blasting. Lots of times in forestry if we have enough spraying to do it is often cheaper with a helicopter than a hand crew. You just have to make sure you have enough to justify bringing the chopper in in the first place. So hiring someone with a license to blast may be your cheapest option. but how are you planning on disposing of the stumps once you pop em? Generally that requires a machine. If you're popping stumps you are generally doing something that requires some cleanup which again requires equipment. If it's super expensive to have someone bring their equipment in what about buying a used machine and shipping it in and leaving it for future projects?


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## Humptulips (Oct 28, 2014)

Put enough fertilizer in the shot and the stumps disappear. Of course then you have them divots to fill.


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## Gologit (Oct 28, 2014)

ZachAK said:


> Interesting about the explosives license. Worth looking into, or chasing someone down for.



I'd look for a licensed blaster. He'll usually also be able to source the explosives you need and he'll be up to speed on transport, permits, and storage. The paperwork for anything having to do with explosives has tripled since 9-11 and if it's not done correctly you'll have ATF people taking an interest in you. You don't want that. 

Getting a blasting license yourself opens up a whole new world of regulatory compliance and unless you're going to be using it on a regular basis I can't see where it's worth it.


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## Jed1124 (Oct 28, 2014)

Gologit said:


> I'd look for a licensed blaster. He'll usually also be able to source the explosives you need and he'll be up to speed on transport, permits, and storage. The paperwork for anything having to do with explosives has tripled since 9-11 and if it's not done correctly you'll have ATF people taking an interest in you. You don't want that.
> 
> Getting a blasting license yourself opens up a whole new world of regulatory compliance and unless you're going to be using it on a regular basis I can't see where it's worth it.


Up until the late sixties you used to be able to walk into Blue Seal around here and pick up some dynamite to blow up stumps. Amazing how much the world has changed in such a short period of time. I wasn't around then but sure seems like a better time.


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## Marshy (Oct 28, 2014)

This is an interesting machine... might not be available where your located though. Sure its enough to make you jealous.



Here's an idea for burning the stump out...


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## Gologit (Oct 28, 2014)

Humptulips said:


> Put enough fertilizer in the shot and the stumps disappear. Of course then you have them divots to fill.



Like this video? These guys didn't use ANFO but it's a good example of _more_ not always being _better.



_


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## Gologit (Oct 28, 2014)

Jed1124 said:


> Up until the late sixties you used to be able to walk into Blue Seal around here and pick up some dynamite to blow up stumps. Amazing how much the world has changed in such a short period of time. I wasn't around then but sure seems like a better time.


 Maybe so. Those were the days of "stuff a few extra sticks in the hole, light the fuse and run like hell". I did it, too. I learned from the old guys and we didn't know any better.
Some of the guys who didn't do a test burn on a piece of fuse before lighting or didn't understand directional explosions and how to contain them aren't with us anymore...at least not in any recognizable form. That's one of the reasons for tight control these days.
I'm not a fan of government intervention in anything but having the availability of explosives limited to those who know what they're doing just makes sense.


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## greendohn (Oct 28, 2014)

Build a fire on the stump, put a blower or fan on it once it's burned for a little bit. The fan forced fire should make it incinerate in a couple days. It works well around here and it cost nothing but a little time.


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## TheJollyLogger (Oct 28, 2014)

For some reason that whale video made me remember the WKRP "Thanksgiving turkey drop" episode. Les Nessman would have given a great on the scene report at the whale incident.


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## Gologit (Oct 28, 2014)

TheJollyLogger said:


> For some reason that whale video made me remember the WKRP "Thanksgiving turkey drop" episode. Les Nessman would have given a great on the scene report at the whale incident.


 


"...and the turkeys are falling from the sky like sacks of wet cement!" Classic.


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## Philbert (Oct 28, 2014)

As I recall, there were some 'stump grinding' wheels that mounted on chainsaw motors. Would be a lot more work than a stand alone stump grinder, but a lot more portable. Google 'hand held stump grinder'.

Is a standard, walk behind stump grinder a possibility? Some of these are pretty compact, and grinding means no stump to dispose of.

Philbert


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## ZachAK (Oct 28, 2014)

Thanks everyone! What a great forum.

I should have mentioned that my buddy has to pull the whole stump and roots—his sweetie is building, of all things, a small garlic farm. I like teasing them that it's a good thing they live far from town, and downwind, because it'll only be the bears and deer that smell their increased farts.

Yeah, it's kind of funny that insurance on a $200,000 machine and the complications of dynamite paperwork might put the stump pulling job back into 100 year old technology.

But I understand tighter regs with dynamite...



Gologit said:


> Some of the guys who didn't do a test burn on a piece of fuse before lighting or didn't understand directional explosions and how to contain them aren't with us anymore...at least not in any recognizable form. That's one of the reasons for tight control these days.



My uncle was an early adopter of dynamite as an early teenager over 50 years ago, crystalizing sticks atop the family TV, blowing up all sorts of stuff. Later, he bought a dumptruck in highschool, and would deliver gravel after backing up to a hillside and letting a stick or two fill the bed with gravel. No wonder he had a piece of plywood for a back window. He never got hurt, but not everyone today has his commonsense.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 28, 2014)

I need to find a whale, 50 cases of 30% and several hundred unsuspecting bystanders...


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## Humptulips (Oct 28, 2014)

You only need a couple of sticks, fertilizer and diesel. The whale and the onlookers will show sooner or later. There was a perfect candidate this spring near Westport when I was clam digging.


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## Gologit (Oct 28, 2014)

You guys are just plain mean.  Can you imagine getting drenched in semi-vaporized dead whale? You'd probably have to go to the shipyard and get sand blasted just to get the smell off.


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## Creeker (Oct 28, 2014)

Nearly cried laughing at the whale detonation, then the large piece of rotten blubber on the car....................hilarious, thanks gologit
for one of the funniest things I've seen for a long time.......


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## Gologit (Oct 28, 2014)

Creeker said:


> Nearly cried laughing at the whale detonation, then the large piece of rotten blubber on the car....................hilarious, thanks gologit
> for one of the funniest things I've seen for a long time.......


 
They showed us that movie in class when I was getting my blasting license. It was kind of an object lesson in what not to do.


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## Creeker (Oct 28, 2014)

Loved it and fwd'd it on to about 20 folks on the email list.

Thanks again.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 29, 2014)

Gologit said:


> You guys are just plain mean.  Can you imagine getting drenched in semi-vaporized dead whale? You'd probably have to go to the shipyard and get sand blasted just to get the smell off.



worth it...


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## jar944 (Nov 3, 2014)

Humptulips said:


> Put enough fertilizer in the shot and the stumps disappear. Of course then you have them divots to fill.



[Over]did that once...

Not nearly as bad as the whale though.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 3, 2014)

There is still hole in the roof of my parents shop... my uncle got a little excitable while blasting stumps...


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## 066blaster (Nov 4, 2014)

A stump grinder can take it down 12 inches. Then cover it with dirt.


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## Odog (Nov 6, 2014)

Blasting is the way to go. Hire a blaster to do it, you don't want to deal with all the ATF compliance BS in trying to get powder yourself.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 9, 2014)

Man I miss the good ole days before nut jobs... when you could get all the toys you needed at the local hardware store, puffing on a cigar while stuffing 20 sticks under a stump, light the fuse and mosey on back behind the nearest large whatever to hide behind...

Granted electric caps are way more fun...


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## Odog (Nov 9, 2014)

Hahaha!! No electric caps are way bad news! It's all about NONELS and electronics nowadays. My boss is missing the middle two fingers on his left hand from an electric cap. Damn thing was shunted and still picked up a stray current and went off in his hand. We finished that shot and that was the end of our electrics


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## Odog (Nov 9, 2014)

We still use fuse caps and detcord sometimes though, that's fun


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## northmanlogging (Nov 9, 2014)

true, but you can do all sorts of interesting delays and stuff with electrics, time it out to say some *****'n heavy metal... add some cobalt powder, or copper oxide, iron oxide, and maybe some magnesium, play with the colors a little bit


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## Odog (Nov 9, 2014)

Haha!! Pyrotechnics on a shot would be sweet! We still do some pretty cool delays with NONELS, 25 milliseconds between holes, 500 milliseconds down hole. 42 - 92 milliseconds between the rows. V cuts and sinking shots, it's all pretty damn cool especially when your in town and shooting a basement next to an existing house. It all comes down to vibration, keep from shaking everything, ensure good breakage, and remember, God hates a coward!! Lol


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## ZachAK (Nov 24, 2014)

Thank you, Gentlemen! Here's an update.

My buddy just couldn't get any heavy equipment to his island property because insurance seemed impossible, but he eventually found someone willing to go for a "You break it, you buy it" handshake on a $200K excavator. That's the Alaska I grew up in, and it's more rare today, but still exists, thankfully. A very competent semi-retired fisherman has a medium landing craft and took the machinery out the island despite the ever present ocean swell this time of year.

The weather has never been better for November, and all the stumps were out and burned in a week flat. Clear, and above freezing. The machinery made it back to town, no problem.

The worst thing that happened was my buddy was burning huge piles of stumps and had an ember pop and go into his glove. It didn't take long to give him a semi-nasty burn the size of a silver dollar. It only takes a split second. Heckuva wake-up on getting flying coals in gloves, clothes, and down pant legs (keep your pant legs over your boots.)

Thanks again for all the suggestions. It's a shame that it's not easier to get a licensed dynamite guy here in a small town, but the excavator worked wonders and would have been might handy even if the stumps could have loosened a lot faster.


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## paccity (Nov 24, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Like this video? These guys didn't use ANFO but it's a good example of _more_ not always being _better.
> 
> 
> 
> _



yup that was one of our states proudest moments.


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## Gologit (Nov 24, 2014)

ZachAK said:


> Thank you, Gentlemen! Here's an update.
> 
> My buddy just couldn't get any heavy equipment to his island property because insurance seemed impossible, but he eventually found someone willing to go for a "You break it, you buy it" handshake on a $200K excavator. That's the Alaska I grew up in, and it's more rare today, but still exists, thankfully. A very competent semi-retired fisherman has a medium landing craft and took the machinery out the island despite the ever present ocean swell this time of year.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the update. Excavators aren't as much fun as explosives but they're a lot quieter. That was quite a project. Down here, where we can truck all our machinery to just about every site it's easy to forget some of the logistic problems you folks have up there.


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## Gologit (Nov 24, 2014)

paccity said:


> yup that was one of our states proudest moments.


 Maybe the blaster was from California?


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## Spotted Owl (Nov 28, 2014)

I know a guy that still has a big chunk of that beast in his freezer. He worked for the State hwy dept at the time and was one of the cat skinners at that mess. There was bit of sticky, oily mist and lots of basketball size and bigger chunks launched.

When I saw this thread I just kept seeing flashes of this in my head.





Owl


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## Franny K (Nov 30, 2014)

They got stumps out with horses making the original Erie canal and most likely others around the world. I don't have a link or couldn't totally figure how the device worked. It looked like it had two big wheels with a large log/axle between then a wheel almost as big to wrap a line around for the horses to pull on. The line to the stump went directly on the axle of much less diameter. My description may have some errors. Probably could search something up not sure how I ran across it.


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## ZachAK (Nov 30, 2014)

Franny K said:


> They got stumps out with horses making the original Erie canal and most likely others around the world. I don't have a link or couldn't totally figure how the device worked. It looked like it had two big wheels with a large log/axle between then a wheel almost as big to wrap a line around for the horses to pull on. The line to the stump went directly on the axle of much less diameter. My description may have some errors. Probably could search something up not sure how I ran across it.



You're right, Franny. I ran across this video a while back. It's definitely on the slow side, but a very cool old horse driven stump puller nonetheless:


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## ZachAK (Nov 30, 2014)

And for all who loved the whale dynamite video, this one's almost as fun!


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## hayboy (Dec 6, 2014)

Franny K said:


> They got stumps out with horses making the original Erie canal and most likely others around the world. I don't have a link or couldn't totally figure how the device worked. It looked like it had two big wheels with a large log/axle between then a wheel almost as big to wrap a line around for the horses to pull on. The line to the stump went directly on the axle of much less diameter. My description may have some errors. Probably could search something up not sure how I ran across it.


Some of the old timers tell of chaining a long pole say20/30 ft and twisting out the stump as team walked around it in a circle. No machinery used, just horsepower.


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## blkcloud (Feb 5, 2015)

tannerite...


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