# WHAT HAVE I DONE? Pros: tell me abot your new guys!



## Wannabe123 (Jan 13, 2015)

Well I went and applied at a tree company last night. The position seems to be general helper *****, but considering my extensive experience (I successfully started my chainsaw several times last week) I can't complain. What startles me is I got a call back (missed it, playing phone tag now) before 8 o clock the next day. Good sign? Dunno yet. But now I'm thinking, "What did I just do?" 

I know diddly about this work. I have no tools or equipment that could be used on a job site. I have no idea what these guys are going to expect. So I turn to the experts.

All you pros out there, I'm wondering about the new guys you have hired over the years. What did the best ones do right? What did the worst ones do wrong? This is only a semi-serious question, so feel free to jack this thread into a "funny things dumb rookies do" thread, I can learn from that too. Thanks!

PS: Mainers advice appreciated!


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## RVALUE (Jan 13, 2015)

My advice would be: Don't overstate your experience or skill level.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 13, 2015)

RVALUE said:


> My advice would be: Don't overstate your experience or skill level.


 Done. I'm Sgt Schultz and have no trouble saying it.


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## mike515 (Jan 13, 2015)

I have a lot to say about this but I have to head out soon. So I'll say this....pay attention to everything! Know what's happening around you. You don't have to understand every facet of the work right away but you do need to know what's happening and stay safe. Assume the guy running the loader or lowering a log on a rope doesn't see you. Safety is everyone's responsibility...including you...from day 1.


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## Oldmaple (Jan 13, 2015)

If you don't know how to do it, ask. Be on time and don't be afraid of work.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 13, 2015)

Oldmaple said:


> If you don't know how to do it, ask. Be on time and don't be afraid of work.


 This statement should be handed out on an engraved bronze plaque at every high school graduation. Thank you


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 13, 2015)

This about sums it up:
http://www.rootstoshoots.net/about/groundsman_guide


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## Greenthorn (Jan 13, 2015)

Uhmmmm, how bout answer your phone?

When I was a young lad and starting new jobs, I would
"Keep my mouth shut and keep my ears open."
Something my parents taught me.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 13, 2015)

Hey now, I was in bed! I returned his call within 15 minutes and heard back ten later. He and I both are screening our calls I guess. Either way, I'm keeping the phone close by now, I have my fingers in a lot of pies.


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## Del_ (Jan 13, 2015)

Get back in school!


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 13, 2015)

Del_ said:


> Get back in school!



School doesn't pay enough to feed the kids and wife.

Once I have a job with a schedule I intend to get some school in though.


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## lone wolf (Jan 13, 2015)

The best ones pay attention and follow along at a good pace. They are reliable and show up when they are asked to. They avoid going in too close and risk getting hit by a falling piece of tree, they are careful around the chipper and the grinder. They don't make up excuses they just work.The worst ones never learn no matter how many times you tell them and work at half speed. They get fired.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 13, 2015)

The best advice I was given was....shut up and listen.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 13, 2015)

Chris, appreciate the link above too, some good reading. My experience has been that new guys who do the "obvious" stuff the fastest are worth keeping and training. Good to get an idea what the "obvious" stuff is in this line of work.


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## Del_ (Jan 13, 2015)

Wannabe123 said:


> School doesn't pay enough to feed the kids and wife.
> 
> Once I have a job with a schedule I intend to get some school in though.



Doing grunt work for a tree company isn't going to feed the wife and kids, either.


It doesn't pay enough to raise a family on.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 13, 2015)

Del_ said:


> Doing grunt work for a tree company isn't going to feed the wife and kids, either.
> 
> 
> It doesn't pay enough to raise a family on.



Well the intention is not to be doing grunt work for the rest of my life. I'm shooting for being hired by the company, getting tree experience, getting my licenses, running a crew someday. That's sort of why I wanted advice on how to make a good impression, what to do to prove I'm worth keeping, training and help advance etc. I am old fashioned and don't believe that spending money and time I don't have to get a piece of paper with no experience to match it and then being angry that I can only find work at Home Depot while I wait for the money/job I "deserve" to drop in my lap is for me. I will be going to school once I have my work situation sorted out.

I'm not sure I can judge your lean here, are you making the point that tree work is a miserable low paying life and it just crushes dreams so don't even bother? Doesn't seem like that's how it turned out for lots of people on this very site. I'll take it into consideration.


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Jan 13, 2015)

It is a miserable low paying career for all but the best. My advice is interview your crew. You want to work for someone that values you as a person and not someone that sees you as a disposable tool. Don't stick around for longer than you have to if you are being treated bad. If you find a good company they will appreciate you because you are motivated by more than a check. Don't be loyal to a company that isn't loyal to you.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 13, 2015)

Thanks, Buck. From talking to the guy he was very enthusiastic about the opportunities available to the right guy, and the company is fairly decent sized and does contract work for the power company, DOT, municipalities and some residential, so the opportunity as far as the company not going broke some day is pretty solid. He liked my resume and was very friendly, not that I trust all I hear straight off the bat, but I have a pretty good knack for reading people and he sounds legit. He was the one who mentioned getting me a Class B, arborists license, etc.

Either way though, I am not the oldest bull on the hill, but I know what comes out the back end when I see it! I will be a humble rookie, but I won't be a disposable tool. I have done enough of that in my life.


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## no tree to big (Jan 13, 2015)

Where r u located? Here is my advise there is always work find something to do! Look up look up look up a relatively small branch hurts a lot more then u think especially in your first days on the Job don't get mesmerized my the climber and his activities u have ur duties he has his and sometimes you just can't watch the cool things he's doing cause u need to drag brush


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 13, 2015)

I'm in Maine, looking forward to the warm weather we should be getting next week to start work (could hit 40 on Tuesday!). Thanks for the advice about watching the climber. Again, these "obvious" things are the ones rookies usually miss and end up screwing the pooch as a result. I'm loving the perspective of guys who have hired dorks like me in the past.


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 13, 2015)

When I look down at the groundie, NOTHING pisses me off more than seeing him standing there with either his hands in his pockets or looking at his phone and there is stuff to do. So before you stand and watch, make sure all the brush is dragged and chipped (except for the stuff in the drop zone you can't get yet) and the area around the chipped is cleaned up. Pick up a rake if you have time.

Think what you need to do and do it without being asked. In the morning, make sure there is fuel and bar oil. Check or help check lights on the chipper. If you're navigating, figure out the route. When you get to the job, put out signs and cones without being asked (or ask where they should be put).

We hire newbies all the time, and I seem to get most of them within their first couple of days. I don't expect you to know anything, it's my job to teach you (while trying to be productive at the same time). 

The other thing is don't whine. I had a guy whining because he had to drag 150', rather than the 15' we had done for the first couple of days.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 13, 2015)

Good calls BC, I HATE people having their damn noses stuck in their phones all the damn time. My phone is just that when I am at work, not some fancy texting Gameboy facespace doo dad.

Most of this stuff comes as no real surprise to me, not that I am looking down my nose at your advice. It's just that I haven't been a rookie in a long time. It's giving me confidence that I can easily outshine the other noobs if I pay attention, work hard and don't complain. The guy I applied to specifically said he called me because my resume indicated I'd be of much more use than some punk kid thinking he'd make a quick buck, and I intend to prove him right. My philosophy is if you pay me a cent I want you to feel like you got a nickel's worth of work (course I'll eventually ask for 3 cents)


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## mike515 (Jan 14, 2015)

Lot's of good advice in this thread. As I said this morning...pay attention. Also, I hate training people...really. I do it but I really appreciate a guy who can also see the obvious. I don't have the time or ambition to tell you every single little thing that needs to be done. A good rule of thumb is "What can I be doing to safely promote the completion of this job?" If everyone is busy and you're wondering what to do.....and you see a few logs that need to go on the trailer...jump on that. Nobody is going to tell you not to do it (unless there is something else you should be doing). It has to be done at some point anyway and you're better off looking busy rather than lazy and confused. That being said....you also need to get a feel for how your crew and your foreman operates. Nobody expects a newb to know everything. I've seen guys who were very ambitious but didn't understand the process. I've had times where there was a pile of brush that needed to be moved and a newb that thought it was a good idea to start raking in our drop zone...while there was still half of the brush in the air. His ambition wasn't the problem...his understanding of the process was. Then someone has to tell him to stop wasting his time and get on that brush. It's not a huge deal but the faster you understand how your crew works...the better. You strike me as a fairly smart guy and I think you should be fine. Just remember...the primary goal is the safety of everyone. After that...it's making sure there is no property/equipment damage. Then you worry about production. If those aren't the priorities on your crew...there is a problem on that crew.


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## TC262 (Jan 14, 2015)

Pretty good advice so far. From your posts you come across as above average intelligence for a ground guy, as long as you apply yourself you'll do fine.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 14, 2015)

TC262 said:


> Pretty good advice so far. From your posts you come across as above average intelligence for a ground guy, as long as you apply yourself you'll do fine.



That's the trouble with the internet


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## lone wolf (Jan 14, 2015)

mike515 said:


> Lot's of good advice in this thread. As I said this morning...pay attention. Also, I hate training people...really. I do it but I really appreciate a guy who can also see the obvious. I don't have the time or ambition to tell you every single little thing that needs to be done. A good rule of thumb is "What can I be doing to safely promote the completion of this job?" If everyone is busy and you're wondering what to do.....and you see a few logs that need to go on the trailer...jump on that. Nobody is going to tell you not to do it (unless there is something else you should be doing). It has to be done at some point anyway and you're better off looking busy rather than lazy and confused. That being said....you also need to get a feel for how your crew and your foreman operates. Nobody expects a newb to know everything. I've seen guys who were very ambitious but didn't understand the process. I've had times where there was a pile of brush that needed to be moved and a newb that thought it was a good idea to start raking in our drop zone...while there was still half of the brush in the air. His ambition wasn't the problem...his understanding of the process was. Then someone has to tell him to stop wasting his time and get on that brush. It's not a huge deal but the faster you understand how your crew works...the better. You strike me as a fairly smart guy and I think you should be fine. Just remember...the primary goal is the safety of everyone. After that...it's making sure there is no property/equipment damage. Then you worry about production. If those aren't the priorities on your crew...there is a problem on that crew.


When the Ground man rakes instead of drags brush or loads logs I see it as an excuse not to do the harder work first raking is one of the last things done. I would have him pegged as a slacker if he did it more then one time after being told do the harder stuff first.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 14, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> When the Ground man rakes instead of drags brush or loads logs I see it as an excuse not to do the harder work first raking is one of the last things done.


 This would make sense. I'd think that all the dragging is just going to make more leaves and debris anyway, why work twice? Unless as someone said their was no more brush accessible and there was an opportunity to clean up an area that you won't need to go back into. For the most part I get your drift, I have had plenty of guys who spend three hours cleaning a gun and when I inspect it the feed arm is spotless, but you can knock a pound of copper out of the gas ports and the spare barrel looks like an orange road cone. They failed to impress.

Some work is just designed to make you look busy, and the pro's will see right through it, am I right?


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## lone wolf (Jan 14, 2015)

Wannabe123 said:


> This would make sense. I'd think that all the dragging is just going to make more leaves and debris anyway, why work twice? Unless as someone said their was no more brush accessible and there was an opportunity to clean up an area that you won't need to go back into. For the most part I get your drift, I have had plenty of guys who spend three hours cleaning a gun and when I inspect it the feed arm is spotless, but you can knock a pound of copper out of the gas ports and the spare barrel looks like an orange road cone. They failed to impress.
> 
> Some work is just designed to make you look busy, and the pro's will see right through it, am I right?


They will see it in a second!


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## capetrees (Jan 14, 2015)

Be on time
Do it the way they show you and not your way
Leave the phone in the truck
Dress ready to work in any conditions (multiple layers and BOOTS)
Don't watch the clock all day
Work guilty like the boss is always watching you


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## no tree to big (Jan 14, 2015)

Here something that drives me nutz when u know there is a big ass piece that is getting roped down and will be a pain to get on the ground don't grab that last little bit that needs to go to the chipper 10 seconds before u will be needed to get that thing on the ground get it out of the way get everything situated grab a big Ole piece and one your way by grab the lil pile on your way by. Nothing drives me more nutz then waiting on a guy to get back while 2 guys stand there with there thumb up there butt... and on the raking thing if there's nothing to do that's major even if u will be messing the same area again do a quick rake grab the big stuff will save u later and it's less to trip over. Don't sit there getting it spotless cover ground quick


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## lone wolf (Jan 14, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> Here something that drives me nutz when u know there is a big ass piece that is getting roped down and will be a pain to get on the ground don't grab that last little bit that needs to go to the chipper 10 seconds before u will be needed to get that thing on the ground get it out of the way get everything situated grab a big Ole piece and one your way by grab the lil pile on your way by. Nothing drives me more nutz then waiting on a guy to get back while 2 guys stand there with there thumb up there butt... and on the raking thing if there's nothing to do that's major even if u will be messing the same area again do a quick rake grab the big stuff will save u later and it's less to trip over. Don't sit there getting it spotless cover ground quick


I really feel that if they rake when other stuff is around it is a stupid attempt to get out of harder work. Then you know what you are dealing with a slacker. They dont even know that we know this trick?


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## no tree to big (Jan 14, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> I really feel that if they rake when other stuff is around it is a stupid attempt to get out of harder work. Then you know what you are dealing with a slacker. They dont even know that we know this trick?


I Said If there is nothing major logs are out brush is out climber is not ready u want him to grab a rake and get the big stuff up or just stand there?


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## treebilly (Jan 14, 2015)

Show them that you want to learn. Ask questions when you see something going on. I'm no teacher by any means but I'll try to give a reasonable answer to questions asked. Learn your knots!!! The climber / bucket operator should not be the only guy that can tie them. Ask them to show you how they prefer items to be tied on to send up. Nothing pisses me off more then getting some CF knot when I'm 90 foot up, having to figure out how to untie it. Ask them to show you a knot at lunch or break time and practice while riding in the truck and at home till you can tie it blindfolded behind your back. Learn how to sharpen a saw. At some point you'll get to cut something and you will dull a saw occasionally. You need to be able to sharpen it. More will come to me I'm sure. Gotta put the kids to bed


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## Jed1124 (Jan 14, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> I really feel that if they rake when other stuff is around it is a stupid attempt to get out of harder work. Then you know what you are dealing with a slacker. They dont even know that we know this trick?


I don't remember who it was but a guy on here years back coined a term for those types. Pile Pusher. Just keep raking that same pile over and over while every body else is busting hump. I've used it ever since!


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## mike515 (Jan 14, 2015)

treebilly said:


> Show them that you want to learn. Ask questions when you see something going on. I'm no teacher by any means but I'll try to give a reasonable answer to questions asked. Learn your knots!!! The climber / bucket operator should not be the only guy that can tie them. Ask them to show you how they prefer items to be tied on to send up. Nothing pisses me off more then getting some CF knot when I'm 90 foot up, having to figure out how to untie it. Ask them to show you a knot at lunch or break time and practice while riding in the truck and at home till you can tie it blindfolded behind your back. Learn how to sharpen a saw. At some point you'll get to cut something and you will dull a saw occasionally. You need to be able to sharpen it. More will come to me I'm sure. Gotta put the kids to bed



I agree about the knots but there is other stuff to learn a little more quickly. But this reminds me of a guy who used to work for me....good groundman, reliable, always knew what was going on but....he simply could not figure out the simplest knot that I wanted him to use to tie the fiberglass pole to my line. It used to irritate me to no end. When I tell you what kind of knot to use...there is a good reason for it...which I explained plenty of times. When I show you the same simple knot 30 times...that's about 29 times too many. When you've been here for 5 or 6 years, know everything about your job and still can't tie on the pole the way I want you to....there is no excuse for that. How hard is it?! When I need that pole...I usually need it right now! I don't have time to mess around with whatever 2nd grade knot you just invented. Do it the way I told you to do it. When I hired his replacement....one of the things I showed him on his first day was that knot. I showed him twice and asked if he could do it. He said "Yeah...no problem." and did it a few times. I said "Good. Don't ever forget how to do that!" Haven't had to show him since then.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 14, 2015)

Always keep an eye up on the climber. The jobsite is noisy. I don't know how many times I've been up in a tree, needing something, chipper going, and there are three groundies down there dragging brush, feeding the chipper and noone looks up. I have spent ten minutes shouting and waving, could have bled out before someone looked up.


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 14, 2015)

Carry a hitch pin in your back pocket,,you will be a hero,,
Jeff


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## lone wolf (Jan 14, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> Carry a hitch pin in your back pocket,,you will be a hero,,
> Jeff


Lose many Jeff? Put them on a line.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 14, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> Carry a hitch pin in your back pocket,,you will be a hero,,
> Jeff


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## mike515 (Jan 14, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Always keep an eye up on the climber. The jobsite is noisy. I don't know how many times I've been up in a tree, needing something, chipper going, and there are three groundies down there dragging brush, feeding the chipper and noone looks up. I have spent ten minutes shouting and waving, could have bled out before someone looked up.



Speaking just for myself....I have a certain way that I'll rev my saw to get people on the ground to look up. They almost always recognize that signal. From there, I have a set of hand signals to tell them what I want. I have it set up so we can do almost any job just with hand signals if we have to. It's really helpful.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 14, 2015)

Following up on that, the first goal of the crew is to support the climber. Not to make them prima donnas ( although some are ) , but the job isn't done til the climber's on the ground. For every calorie you burn he's burning ten.


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## Nemus Talea (Jan 15, 2015)

<Good stuff thus far.
Mind the rope! Keep the rope away from running saws. Keep debris out of ropes. Dont walk on ropes. TRY to keep ropes out of mud.


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## Griff93 (Jan 15, 2015)

On the topic of rope, don't let the rope get sucked into the chipper.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 15, 2015)

Nemus Talea said:


> <Good stuff thus far.
> Mind the rope! Keep the rope away from running saws. Keep debris out of ropes. Dont walk on ropes. TRY to keep ropes out of mud.



My dad was an amateur rock climber/rappelling geek back along, and I had some formal training with dealing with ropes, although very little with the rigging aspect. I'll keep this in mind. I've been on a wall a few times, and trusting your life to a rope requires a lot of faith that it isn't f'ed up.

I will also avoid allowing rope (or anything besides wood) to enter the chipper.


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## Nemus Talea (Jan 15, 2015)

Griff93 said:


> On the topic of rope, don't let the rope get sucked into the chipper.


Just trying to tie the chipper drum down for the ride home.


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## no tree to big (Jan 15, 2015)

Best thing u can do is pay attention, I run a crane 99% of my days the same guys been working there more then long enough to know better then to look at there feet all day. Today first pick comes down straight to the chipper not very big 3 guys playing grab ass don't see it coming down I'm looking right at them for 30 seconds before I said **** it (piece was tips down) I just set it right down on there dumb asses wonder what else I can do to teach um safety meeting don't work so we'll see. Another time I pick up the butt log from a 36" tree I had someone asking me something so I let go of the controls piece stops about 5 foot off the ground and the dumb ass doing the cut is walking in circles looking at the ground and walk right into it (still directly over the stump) I have to pick it close to 40 feet to get it over a tree right next to the one we removed so regardless he should not be under the piece being lifted by the crane but he bounces his face off it like 10 times while trying to yell at me how it's my fault I have it over him... no if u are under something it's your fault I can sit there and swing **** over u all day long if something falls and hits u its still your own fault as much as it is mine u are a grown man u are s responsible for your own safety


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 16, 2015)

mike515 said:


> I agree about the knots but there is other stuff to learn a little more quickly. But this reminds me of a guy who used to work for me....good groundman, reliable, always knew what was going on but....he simply could not figure out the simplest knot that I wanted him to use to tie the fiberglass pole to my line. It used to irritate me to no end. When I tell you what kind of knot to use...there is a good reason for it...which I explained plenty of times. When I show you the same simple knot 30 times...that's about 29 times too many. When you've been here for 5 or 6 years, know everything about your job and still can't tie on the pole the way I want you to....there is no excuse for that. How hard is it?! When I need that pole...I usually need it right now! I don't have time to mess around with whatever 2nd grade knot you just invented. Do it the way I told you to do it. When I hired his replacement....one of the things I showed him on his first day was that knot. I showed him twice and asked if he could do it. He said "Yeah...no problem." and did it a few times. I said "Good. Don't ever forget how to do that!" Haven't had to show him since then.



I think knots are like mathematics, some people just can't conceptually see it no matter how much and how many ways you teach it. If the guy was a good worker except for that, I would have come up with some work around solution. What would you rather have a good worker who can't understand knots or a lazy ass worker who can tie every knot?


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## Zale (Jan 16, 2015)

Before you start chipping or run a saw on the ground, let the climber know. He might not want you doing that at that particular time.
Before you walk into the work zone, let the climber know and wait for a response from him indicating its clear.
Before you pull a rope out of a tree, make sure there are no knots in it. 
Before you leave the job site, walk it to make sure nothing was left behind.
Before you take lunch, ask your crew leader. My guys don't eat until I'm on the ground.
Before you go home, ask your boss if there is anything else that needs to be done.


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## mike515 (Jan 16, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> I think knots are like mathematics, some people just can't conceptually see it no matter how much and how many ways you teach it. If the guy was a good worker except for that, I would have come up with some work around solution. What would you rather have a good worker who can't understand knots or a lazy ass worker who can tie every knot?



Well, I didn't can him over it or anything but tying your shoes is more complicated than this know is.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 16, 2015)

I'm hit or miss with knots usually. If you show me a certain way and I don't "get" what your saying I may be able to do it in front of you but then will soon forget. If I grasp the concept in my mind following my own mental process for tying the knot I'm usually good after that. Does that make any sense?


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## love2climb (Jan 16, 2015)

I've only been in the industry for about 3 yes (1.5 climbing) I feel like zale was right on the nose with his reply


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## mike515 (Jan 16, 2015)

Wannabe123 said:


> I'm hit or miss with knots usually. If you show me a certain way and I don't "get" what your saying I may be able to do it in front of you but then will soon forget. If I grasp the concept in my mind following my own mental process for tying the knot I'm usually good after that. Does that make any sense?



If you stick with this job, you'll learn them along the way. Having a little "saying" as you tie each knot helps you remember them. I remember the guys who trained me would just drill stuff into my head...over and over and over. Not just knots but everything. I remember being taught my knots and my foreman telling me that he'll be satisfied when he thinks I can wake up from a dead sleep and tie them with my eyes closed. I remember testing on my knots with my eyes closed (because you never know when you might not be able to see for some reason). These days...after many years....I don't even think about how to tie knots. My hands have done them so many thousands of times that it's just muscle memory. My hands do it all by themselves.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 16, 2015)

Learning by repetition and regimented drill with acronyms and ditties until it becomes instinct. Yeah, I can do that


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## lone wolf (Jan 16, 2015)

Wannabe123 said:


> I'm hit or miss with knots usually. If you show me a certain way and I don't "get" what your saying I may be able to do it in front of you but then will soon forget. If I grasp the concept in my mind following my own mental process for tying the knot I'm usually good after that. Does that make any sense?


Any ground man can learn a knot if his teacher is able to teach him.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 16, 2015)

I hope so. As it turns out I'll be mostly humping brush around anyway, the first week we'll be doing all bucket work and I am not sure how much rigging will be involved since I haven't seen the job area yet. Hopefully it'll be minor so I can get my feet wet without holding anything up.


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## mike515 (Jan 16, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> Any ground man can learn a knot if his teacher is able to teach him.



Except that one guy who worked for me. And it wasn't just me. He was with me for 4 or 5 years but had 15-16 years experience.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 16, 2015)

mike515 said:


> Except that one guy who worked for me. And it wasn't just me. He was with me for 4 or 5 years but had 15-16 years experience.


Again, I'm no old salt, but seems to me a lack of skill with knots would explain why he had 15 years experience as a ground man.


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## mike515 (Jan 16, 2015)

Wannabe123 said:


> Again, I'm no old salt, but seems to me a lack of skill with knots would explain why he had 15 years experience as a ground man.



I've known him since I was a teenager. In fact, I'm the one who made some phone calls to get him on his first crew. Heck of a good guy but just the kind of guy who wants no responsibility. He doesn't want to be in charge of anything or anyone and avoids conflict like the plague. He just wanted a job on the ground. I think I saw him go up in the bucket once in the entire time I worked with him. He went up about 15 feet and came back down. There is something in his head that makes him that way. I personally think it goes back years to the day he found his roommate/best friend in their apartment. He killed himself with a shotgun and I know that even seeing paint splattered a certain way will trigger memories for this guy. Something about him changed that day.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 16, 2015)

Yikes! Yeah, that kind of thing will **** with you no doubt.


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 16, 2015)

I'm a Scout leader and we practice knots with our kids all the time. And some of them still don't have a clue. I think it's like puzzles/rubic's cubes, some people can "see" the pattern and some people can't.


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## lone wolf (Jan 16, 2015)

Wannabe123 said:


> I hope so. As it turns out I'll be mostly humping brush around anyway, the first week we'll be doing all bucket work and I am not sure how much rigging will be involved since I haven't seen the job area yet. Hopefully it'll be minor so I can get my feet wet without holding anything up.


Will you be running rope?


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## lone wolf (Jan 16, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> I'm a Scout leader and we practice knots with our kids all the time. And some of them still don't have a clue. I think it's like puzzles/rubic's cubes, some people can "see" the pattern and some people can't.


They way you show them in steps and repetition helps.


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## lone wolf (Jan 16, 2015)

mike515 said:


> Except that one guy who worked for me. And it wasn't just me. He was with me for 4 or 5 years but had 15-16 years experience.


Wow


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## mike515 (Jan 16, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> Wow



Yup. 15-16 yrs experience....that is a dude who you can seriously trust to drag branches and rake correctly!! 

But don't expect him to tie the freaking pole on the right way!


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## lone wolf (Jan 16, 2015)

mike515 said:


> Yup. 15-16 yrs experience....that is a dude who you can seriously trust to drag branches and rake correctly!!
> 
> But don't expect him to tie the freaking pole on the right way!


Put a snap on it .


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 16, 2015)

lone wolf said:


> Will you be running rope?


 Not sure yet. Unlikely on the first day, since the crew has been working without me for a week now anyway. I will be starting there and they are moving another guy to a different site from what I gather.


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## Nemus Talea (Jan 17, 2015)

Knot tying requires some 3 dimensional imagination. Do a search of "must know knots." Start by learning bowline. Practice with eyes closed. Practice while watching TV or some other distraction.

A tree service worksite can be a fully encompassing hazardous environment. Sometimes, you must take your eyes off one danger to address another. Above, below, and anything from a swinging limb to a spinning saw chain can come at ya from the sides or suddenly behind you. Climbers will say to always look up and watch them, but if you walk into ground run rigging, stumble into a coworker running a saw, get foot tangled in rig line going up, or forget where the in ground pool is, you'll be in trouble. Gotta watch climber for instruction, his safety, and to know when load is coming on above, but full SITUATIONAL AWARENESS needs to be developed. Evidently, you also need to look out for crane operators swatting ya with a pick rather than fire you.


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## juttree (Jan 17, 2015)

Jed1124 said:


> I don't remember who it was but a guy on here years back coined a term for those types. Pile Pusher. Just keep raking that same pile over and over while every body else is busting hump. I've used it ever since!


Wasn't the term "Pile Polisher"?
One thing I hate is when there's lots of raking to do or wood to pick up and one guy thinks it's a good time to use the blower. 99% of the time the blower is the last thing to be used. The exception would be keeping the road clear for traffic. There's always something to do, I can't stand it when guys just stand around. Gas saws up, get ropes ready, move things out of the work zone (garbage cans, kids toys, grills), pull hangers, and even pick up small sticks if you have to.


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## no tree to big (Jan 17, 2015)

I have no power to fire otherwise I would have fired at least half the guys that I work with if u have been told everyday for the last few years to pay attention if ur screwing around your gonna get it, sorry... 
if u are walking behind a guy using a saw, if ur in reach of him turning around and catching u with the saw not so much if he's buried in a big log but if he's cutting up some brush, as u go behind him gently put Ur hand on his back one so he knows ur there two if he starts to whirl around u can push off


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## lone wolf (Jan 17, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> I have no power to fire otherwise I would have fired at least half the guys that I work with if u have been told everyday for the last few years to pay attention if ur screwing around your gonna get it, sorry...
> if u are walking behind a guy using a saw, if ur in reach of him turning around and catching u with the saw not so much if he's buried in a big log but if he's cutting up some brush, as u go behind him gently put Ur hand on his back one so he knows ur there two if he starts to whirl around u can push off


Stay out of reach, period.


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Jan 17, 2015)

Go to animatedknots and learn the alpine butterfly loop as well as the bowline. The rest of the knots are easy to learn.


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## CanopyGorilla (Jan 18, 2015)

juttree said:


> Wasn't the term "Pile Polisher"?
> One thing I hate is when there's lots of raking to do or wood to pick up and one guy thinks it's a good time to use the blower. 99% of the time the blower is the last thing to be used. The exception would be keeping the road clear for traffic. There's always something to do, I can't stand it when guys just stand around. Gas saws up, get ropes ready, move things out of the work zone (garbage cans, kids toys, grills), pull hangers, and even pick up small sticks if you have to.


Haaaha! We had one guy that went beyond the " pile polisher"! I started to call him "wind song" because he would pick the blower up before the brush was gone.


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## CanopyGorilla (Jan 18, 2015)

As a new guy NEVER touch the blower! Just keep rakeing. You will earn the blower when another new guy comes along.


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## imagineero (Jan 18, 2015)

We have a simple 2 step plan;

1. don't be a jerk.
2. do some work

Keep repeating it until the jobs done and you'll always have a job. If you hang around a while you'll learn things.


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## juttree (Jan 18, 2015)

If yor tired and you just want the job to be over, think of it like this. The job isn't done until THAT tree is in THOSE trucks, so keep getting it there. The sooner you do that the sooner you can go home.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 18, 2015)

juttree said:


> If yor tired and you just want the job to be over, think of it like this. The job isn't done until THAT tree is in THOSE trucks, so keep getting it there. The sooner you do that the sooner you can go home.


Good advice. I'm the kind of guy who likes to get the work done ASAP so I can go home as opposed to waiting around since "we're gonna be here all day anyway".

Good news, going to be nearly 40 tomorrow! One less thing to worry about on a first day, and since I'll be up a little late tonight for the AFC game, the less misery at 5 in the morning the better.


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## treebilly (Jan 18, 2015)

15 minutes early is on time. Getting out of your vehicle at starting time is late. This is for Jeff , keep track of the hitch pin when unhooking equipment. Don't just lay them on the tongue of the machine. Hook it somewhere


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## Stihlmadd (Jan 18, 2015)

CanopyGorilla said:


> As a new guy NEVER touch the blower!


first man to the blower syndrome eh? yep stay away from the cushy jobs there is a descending order of priority when it comes to tasks and you need to learn the order in which they occur and why fast. lurkers who take the easy job every time don't stay around for long


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## no tree to big (Jan 18, 2015)

Hitch pins stay on the truck not the trailer it drives me nutz when I grab a chipper truck go to grab a stumper or a different chipper and there is no pin on the truck but there are 10 pins wrapped around one of the chippers and it's probably not the one left in the yard...


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 18, 2015)

treebilly said:


> This is for Jeff , keep track of the hitch pin when unhooking equipment.



Don't be a dope,,obviously you do not get it,,, so don't be a dope.
Jeff


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 19, 2015)

First day. Power line work. Long day, very wet and muddy, but at least the weather was beautiful. Broke the chipper before lunch too, but it was an honest mistake. Guy said chuck this crap in the chipper and I did. It wasn't throttled up and made rope inside of it out of a bunch of saplings. Lesson learned.


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## juttree (Jan 19, 2015)

Wannabe123 said:


> First day. Power line work. Long day, very wet and muddy, but at least the weather was beautiful. Broke the chipper before lunch too, but it was an honest mistake. Guy said chuck this crap in the chipper and I did. It wasn't throttled up and made rope inside of it out of a bunch of saplings. Lesson learned.


Glad it went well today. I like your honesty but don't sweat it, it's not broke. Lessons like that are good ones to learn from. Just keep your eyes open and stay alert, there's a lot of lessons in this industry that you don't get a second chance from. Get used to taking a look up before going for that branch and listen for that saw.


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## no tree to big (Jan 19, 2015)

Speaking of power lines if the bucket truck is near wires stay away from it the operator up in the bucket can put the truck in the lines and not be harmed but if u are standing next to it or leaning on it and it gets energized poof ur toast


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## juttree (Jan 19, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> Speaking of power lines if the bucket truck is near wires stay away from it the operator up in the bucket can put the truck in the lines and not be harmed but if u are standing next to it or leaning on it and it gets energized poof ur toast


Very true, good advice.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 19, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> Speaking of power lines if the bucket truck is near wires stay away from it the operator up in the bucket can put the truck in the lines and not be harmed but if u are standing next to it or leaning on it and it gets energized poof ur toast


Good advice. Guess it helps I don't have any time to lean on anything


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## no tree to big (Jan 19, 2015)

Wannabe123 said:


> Good advice. Guess it helps I don't have any time to lean on anything


Fueling saw grabing rake or whatever it can jump from truck to u a pretty good distance....


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## lone wolf (Jan 19, 2015)

Wannabe123 said:


> First day. Power line work. Long day, very wet and muddy, but at least the weather was beautiful. Broke the chipper before lunch too, but it was an honest mistake. Guy said chuck this crap in the chipper and I did. It wasn't throttled up and made rope inside of it out of a bunch of saplings. Lesson learned.


Was he in range of the chipper to watch you or did he leave you to operate a chipper on your first day that you are not familiar with  
Ain't no way I let a new guy near the chipper at first by himself. Did he show you proper safety procedure and where to stand and how to reverse it etc? Or just say here chip this? Did he teach you to keep your face away and turn away from ingoing brush so you don't get hit?


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 19, 2015)

No tree: thanks seriously I hadn't really thought about that worrying about getting hit by falling limbs but I will definelty pay attention.
Wolf: No he was chipping as well and he did give me a run down on the machine. I just didn't know he had throttled it down and forgot to look. I had muffs on so the lack of noise didn't click at first. Bossman gave me some guff over it but nothing too bad.

The pay sucks and the works hard, but at least the guys are pretty cool. I don't mind being as rookie and starting low, but I'm too old and have enough to offer that I wouldn't hang around if they treated me like ****. And every time I need a morale boost I look at the flaggers and remember at least I'm not doing that.


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## mike515 (Jan 19, 2015)

If you're doing line clearance, you need to make sure you have the fiberglass poles out of the side boxes every time that boom leaves its cradle (and it's a good idea for any crew, really). If they didn't show you today, you need to know how to use those poles to override the upper controls in the event of an emergency. Every person on that job site should be able to do that if they need to. I didn't realize you were starting on line clearance or I would have had some additional advice.


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 19, 2015)

Wannabe123 said:


> No tree: thanks seriously I hadn't really thought about that worrying about getting hit by falling limbs but I will definelty pay attention.
> Wolf: No he was chipping as well and he did give me a run down on the machine. I just didn't know he had throttled it down and forgot to look. I had muffs on so the lack of noise didn't click at first. Bossman gave me some guff over it but nothing too bad.
> 
> The pay sucks and the works hard, but at least the guys are pretty cool. I don't mind being as rookie and starting low, but I'm too old and have enough to offer that I wouldn't hang around if they treated me like ****. And every time I need a morale boost I look at the flaggers and remember at least I'm not doing that.



Around here, the flaggers are better trained and make more than groundies. They have to take a week long training course and be certified to be a flagger.


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 20, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> Around here, the flaggers are better trained and make more than groundies. They have to take a week long training course and be certified to be a flagger.


I took a 12 question test and watched a 15 minute video. It was worse than drivers ed. Sounds like BC loves their training and certification!

Mike, this emergency override business has not been mentioned, I will ask about it tomorrow.

No broken chippers today, but I got a nice chip shower.


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## Zale (Jan 20, 2015)

Please tell me you didn't get into the back of the truck while chipping.


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## no tree to big (Jan 20, 2015)

I'm curiously confused haha


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## juttree (Jan 20, 2015)

Let me guess, taking a leak in the back of the truck and someone fires up the chopper.


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## mike515 (Jan 20, 2015)

Wannabe123 said:


> Mike, this emergency override business has not been mentioned, I will ask about it tomorrow.



In a nutshell...let's say the bucket operator gets juiced or becomes unresponsive while there is contact between the boom and a line.....you use that pole to flip the override on the pedestal. Then you use the pedestal controls (with the pole) to move the boom and break contact. Once you're sure that there is no longer any contact, you can jump up there and lower the boom. This is an absolute "must have" tool on a line clearance crew. It's not subject to company policy or an thing else allowing them to not have that pole. You must have it and have people trained on what to do with it.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 20, 2015)

Zale said:


> Please tell me you didn't get into the back of the truck while chipping.


 A guy in the chip bed reminds me of the time we were working in a backyard and there were 2 ground guys one was gonna start chipping brush so he fired up the chipper not knowing the other ground guy was taking his morning crap in the chip box, so i'm up in this tree looking out front over the house and see him start the chipper to warm it up and all of a sudden i see the other ground guy come flying outta the chip box with his pants around his ankles and tuck and roll as he hit the grass. I thought i was gonna die from laughing and everytime i thought about that day i would just bust out laughing :laugh


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 20, 2015)

That's hilarious! I was actually in a ditch though, I'm pretty sure I'd be in big trouble were I in the bed. They moved the chipper and the guys were on such a roll they just kept shoveling it. I was moving along briskly, guess I went a bit too far. I was a good ways away from the chute though, so all I got were some chunks of wood in my hood and down my union suit (that part kind of sucked)

Mike, that's some darned useful knowledge for the brain box. I'll definitely look into that, since at this stage in my "career" I'll be doing a lot of this.


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