# Polishing the Pile



## sgreanbeans (Jul 9, 2010)

So I have a new phrase, it should be used to describe those guys you all hire, that start off like a ball of fire and then fizzle to the point that they grab a rake and clean up a area that is very small, but they remain there, trying to look busy in front of the boss, raking endlessly a small little pile of junk until it is perfect, trying to make it last as long as possible, as to avoid picking up anything heavy our doing ANYTHING at all that would make them sweat, You guys know who/what I am talking about. I now dub the description of this practice as "POLISHING THE PILE" 
U can also use this as a description for a individual who displays this skill, in other words, u can call a guy a "PILE POLISHER", to describe the weakness of such said individual.
I can call him a new name now, "unemployed"!


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## derwoodii (Jul 9, 2010)

Workin with a large grounds garden crew one bloke some how could get though the whole day with out a mark or stain on his pants, his hands always smooth and clean. What you described was just how he operated kept a nice high profile doing nuthin.

I heard last hes is now the boss, go figure that.


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## treevet (Jul 9, 2010)

derwoodii said:


> Workin with a large grounds garden crew one bloke some how could get though the whole day with out a mark or stain on his pants, his hands always smooth and clean. What you described was just how he operated kept a nice high profile doing nuthin.
> 
> I heard last hes is now the boss, go figure that.



Jeff Lovstrom? :kilt:


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## Grace Tree (Jul 9, 2010)

treevet said:


> Jeff Lovstrom? :kilt:


Hah hah -A guy who never met a mirror he didn't like.
Phil


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 9, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> So I have a new phrase, it should be used to describe those guys you all hire, that start off like a ball of fire and then fizzle to the point that they grab a rake and clean up a area that is very small, but they remain there, trying to look busy in front of the boss, raking endlessly a small little pile of junk until it is perfect, trying to make it last as long as possible, as to avoid picking up anything heavy our doing ANYTHING at all that would make them sweat, You guys know who/what I am talking about. I now dub the description of this practice as "POLISHING THE PILE"
> U can also use this as a description for a individual who displays this skill, in other words, u can call a guy a "PILE POLISHER", to describe the weakness of such said individual.
> I can call him a new name now, "unemployed"!



I kind of like that. 

We used to have this guy who would dig in when we told him exactly what to do but, after completing that one task, would go sit his butt down, literally, and watch us work until we gave him another thing to do. While I don't expect my ground guys to be Einsteins, I do expect them to have enough smarts to stay busy with things needing to be done.


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## Goober (Jul 9, 2010)

treevet said:


> Jeff Lovstrom? :kilt:


:agree2:


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## treemandan (Jul 9, 2010)

Goober said:


> :agree2:



DAM GOOB! yer first post and you are bustin on old man Lovstrom? Oh Hell, that just ain't right! Dam!

And please, everybody, please please please don't get started on the rake thing. Just the other night my wife told my I was hollering in my sleep about it. I blame the rake manufactuers, they don't put the directions on the dam things.


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## Goober (Jul 9, 2010)

treemandan said:


> DAM GOOB! yer first post and you are bustin on old man Lovstrom? Oh Hell, that just ain't right! Dam!



I've read his posts, they speak for themselves!


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## tree md (Jul 9, 2010)

treevet said:


> Jeff Lovstrom? :kilt:



Too funny!

I also got a name for the guys who like to avoid dragging brush and loading logs. I call them the rope rollers. You know, the ones who always start rolling up the ropes instead of digging in with the rest of the guys and getting the wood to the truck. I've got one rule on my crew; no one rolls the ropes except for me. I actually flake my rope into bags these days but I still call them rope rollers.

I had a boss ask me one time why I hadn't raked an area back when I worked the ground. He was just giving me #### because I had already worked my ass off getting the brush and logs loaded. I told him that I had looked the rake over and couldn't find an on/off switch anywhere on the dam thing.


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 9, 2010)

This is a funny #### thread.

There is just something about those rakes. I can do the trees, and load the trucks no problem, but once it's down to the rakes and brooms, I'm spitting curse words etc like I'm cursed for having to pull rake/push broom. And I think I am cursed.

I think it goes back to when my pops always burnt mine and my brothers ### about hauling his brush and raking non-stop for years and years. Our weekends, time off after school, and vacations from school were sole his labor pool. The guy would never even utter the words thank you, pay us, or anything at all if we were on time and finished up, but he sure would end our livelihoods as much as he possibly could for anything but quality performance. So these were hard times. 

Once we sugared his chainsaw carburetor. He never proved it, but assumed it. It wasn't long before we were out of jobs because he sent us out of state to a military school.  It didn't get any easier from there I tell you.

...and it all leads back to those ###### rakes. 

lol


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## treemandan (Jul 9, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> This is a funny #### thread.
> 
> There is just something about those rakes. I can do the trees, and load the trucks no problem, but once it's down to the rakes and brooms, I'm spitting curse words etc like I'm cursed for having to pull rake/push broom. And I think I am cursed.
> 
> ...



You , ONCE AGAIN, sound like a true piece of work.


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## tree MDS (Jul 9, 2010)

Its friday, don't even get me started. I'm too sick from it to laugh.


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## treemandan (Jul 9, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Its friday, don't even get me started. I'm too sick from it to laugh.



Yeah, you had better just cool off, have a few beers and try to forget this rake thing. You can give a guy a yard implement but for crying out loud you can't make him use it.


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## ForTheArborist (Jul 9, 2010)

treemandan said:


> yeah, you had better just cool off, have a few beers and try to forget this rake thing. You can give a guy a yard implement but for crying out loud you can't make him use it.



lol


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## tree MDS (Jul 9, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Yeah, you had better just cool off, have a few beers and try to forget this rake thing. You can give a guy a yard implement but for crying out loud you can't make him use it.



Its not so much the rake, as the thing attached to the other end of the rake that I'm trying to forget. 

I will take you up on the beer deal though!


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## cassandrasdaddy (Jul 9, 2010)

*we called guys like that wheeelbarrows*

a wheelbarrow is an awesome tool can get a lot done but you gotta grab ir by the handles and push it. some guys are like that. and some have no shame either.


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## 911crash (Jul 9, 2010)

there are 3 types of workers, you have workers who just work, then you have cutters, who love to cut so he doesnt have to drag brush or logs. then you have the hiders, their the ones who put their coolers just outside the view of the boss (usually by the side of the garage close to the chipper) so they can eat and drink out of view. that tells me they havent worked hard enough to warrant a break. the guys who eat and drink in front of the boss usually dont need to justify their breaks, they are the workers


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 10, 2010)

At one point, this kid was "Polishing" and he stops, puts his head down on the handle, I ask him what he is doing, he looks at me with this really weird look, puff gasp, puff gasp "I'm catching my breath" 
My crew all wear safety orange shirts, they get dirty and soaked with sweat, his shirt however, was clean and dry.
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOUR OUT OF BREATH"
The pile was perfect, but about enough to fill half a scoop shovel!


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## Tree Machine (Jul 10, 2010)

The longer it takes to finish, the more they get paid.

The less work they do, the more you will end up doing.

The more helpless they act, the more likely you are to help them.

If the end of the job can be delayed long enough, you are less likely to move on to another job and may go home early.


Kinda brilliant in a pathetic way.


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 10, 2010)

Touche!
I will not tolerate Milkers (sp?) My wife is on the job alot, helping with clean up or running a porta wrap, 100lbs soaking wet, will out work most men and will light your but up if your not performing (even me!)
She said, almost verbatim, what you just said.
"He's milking the clock, hes gotta go"


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## treevet (Jul 10, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> Touche!
> I will not tolerate Milkers (sp?) My wife is on the job alot, helping with clean up or running a porta wrap, 100lbs soaking wet, will out work most men and will light your but up if your not performing (even me!)
> She said, almost verbatim, what you just said.
> "He's milking the clock, hes gotta go"



eeeeek a woman on a tree crew and a boss's wife to boot......and ordering the men around.....there'd be some big time trouble on any crew I worked on back in the day.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## tree md (Jul 10, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> The longer it takes to finish, the more they get paid.
> 
> The less work they do, the more you will end up doing.
> 
> ...



That's why I pay my guys a full day for anything over 4 hours (which we do most days unless it rains). So they have the same incentive as me to finish. Time is money. They know that they can either be polishing the pile or sitting home drinking a beer in the same amount of time for the same amount of money.


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## Groundman One (Jul 10, 2010)

We never really had a problem with guys who wouldn't work, we had problems with guys who woudln't do the right work.

Say you have a crew of at least three or four, a climber or two and a few groundmen, well, inglorious as it is, the groundmen have to carry the stuff and clean up. Climbers get first shot at the cutting work. But we've had guys (groundmen) who would bring their saws and when it's clean up time, they would be cutting this and that and sometimes you'd see the climber hauling branches. That ain't the way the job works.

I find this happens most when you hire a groundman and then he starts doing a little climbing on the jobs just to learn, and then he thinks he's too good to haul branches so he avoids it and does other things that the climber or senior groundman is supposed to do.

One guy worked with us for over a year, he was a good guy, a lot of fun, but he kept doing that more and more and then all of a sudden he didn't work for us any more.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 10, 2010)

treevet said:


> Jeff Lovstrom? :kilt:



I knew you were gonna say something, 
Jeff CTSP


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 10, 2010)

Goober said:


> :agree2:



You don't even know me yet, GOOBER!
Jeff


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 10, 2010)

Jeff, she is not necessarily on the crew, she comes out and helps when she wants too, I have no problem with her out there, either do the guys, if they do, they go away. I work for us, not my crew. She will however out work most men, can rebuild a saw carb ( Fallbrook Tractor, remember the hot little chick that worked the counter, ol' Fid taught her well) Run a Skid loader with the best of them, and she knows a helluva alot about plants,She learned that when we bothed worked for Gothic as the Senior Account Manager for SD, that Mike Gillette and Reggie Rhea I told you about put her there to see if she would sink or swim. She had record profit margins (goal of 11% averaged 30%) with the highest Customer Survey Reports that Gothic ever had, to that point anyways, from Pardee, Western Pacific Housing, Lennar, etc.
When we first started at Gothic, one of my Hispanic crews called me and was SCREAMING about this young little girl stealing the backhoe! It was her, loading a tandem dump full of DG at East Lake over by the Olympic Training area. So, I guess what I'm saying is, shes not the average wife! Only time she gets after the guys is when they don't drink water, show up late or they are Polishing a pile. When it comes to the tree work, she'll jump in and pull brush all day, but never says anything about what is going on in the air. The guys love her out there, she keeps me in check, I can get a little demanding and push the guys real hard, she makes sure that they get a lunch! Iowa girls are a different breed, there is a Smoking Hot Redhead that climbs here for Asplundh, she's won several competitions, so I heard and runs a crew! And shes hot, and a redhead........and hot..............and a redhead.............hot...........redhead..........hot redhead, if ya get the point! just think of "THE MIDWEST FARMERS DAUGHTER" from the "California Girls" video that David Lee Roth did! We have it good here when it comes to women!


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## treeclimber101 (Jul 10, 2010)

Wow a thread that really makes me laugh , here we go , There are some individuals who I have held on to solely for there personality and they often can lighten the mood of even the suckiest of days , mainly my brother he has helped me out off and on for almost 8yrs .... Frankly he is completely worthless and we have adjusted to having him as our comic relief and know that unless there something laying across your body that he will not run to help... He is in a band and plans to be a full time "musician" when he hits it big .. I have hit him with brush he has hit me and everyone with brush as he carelessly passes by between cigarettes and his "tweets" cause he thinks everyone gives a #### what he eats for lunch ... It is a labor of love to keep him and if he wasn't blood than he'd be gone ...


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 11, 2010)

Thats cool, I would do that for my brother as well, I had my cousin out, sounds like yur bro, He had to quit, he blew himself up in his garage, he was gonna try out his new camper kitchen, INSIDE! Turned on the propane, left and came back 20 min later, walked in, lite a smoke, BOOM!!!
Literally burnt the skin off both hands, they did a skin graph off his butt, lol, now, If you shake his hand he says " you just grabbed my butt" he thinks its so funny (the comic relief you were talking about!) Ya never know what is gonna come out of his mouth, some stuff he tells us he has done just puts us in awe, no saws for him!


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## Groundman One (Jul 11, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> Wow a thread that really makes me laugh , here we go , There are some individuals who I have held on to solely for there personality and they often can lighten the mood of even the suckiest of days , mainly my brother he has helped me out off and on for almost 8yrs .... Frankly he is completely worthless and we have adjusted to having him as our comic relief and know that unless there something laying across your body that he will not run to help... He is in a band and plans to be a full time "musician" when he hits it big .. I have hit him with brush he has hit me and everyone with brush as he carelessly passes by between cigarettes and his "tweets" cause he thinks everyone gives a #### what he eats for lunch ... It is a labor of love to keep him and if he wasn't blood than he'd be gone ...



Excellent.


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## Bermie (Jul 12, 2010)

I like raking, I am good at raking, in fact I am the BEST!!!

Comes from being a lowly apprentice...all they let you do is chop with a machete and rake.

I get annoyed when people rake, especially on soil, and end up with a 6" pile of soil topped with a few leaves and sticks...what, you can't FLICK it, lemme learn you how to rake, get outta the WAY!


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## tree md (Jul 12, 2010)

Bermie said:


> I like raking, I am good at raking, in fact I am the BEST!!!
> 
> Comes from being a lowly apprentice...all they let you do is chop with a machete and rake.
> 
> I get annoyed when people rake, especially on soil, and end up with a 6" pile of soil topped with a few leaves and sticks...what, you can't FLICK it, lemme learn you how to rake, get outta the WAY!



LOL, I am the same way Bermie! I get so frustrated watching someone else rake! Everyone is too slow! Gimme the rake and get out the way! There is an art to raking!


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## pdqdl (Jul 12, 2010)

"Polishing the pile"...I plan on using that!

No one seems to have mentioned the other variety of slacking on the job: has anybody ever noticed that one guy is always the first one to pick up the blower?

Everybody else is raking or feeding brush, and this fool picks up the blower and starts cleaning up the street while the chipper is still making chips...


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 12, 2010)

Bermie said:


> I like raking, I am good at raking, in fact I am the BEST!!!
> 
> Comes from being a lowly apprentice...all they let you do is chop with a machete and rake.
> 
> I get annoyed when people rake, especially on soil, and end up with a 6" pile of soil topped with a few leaves and sticks...what, you can't FLICK it, lemme learn you how to rake, get outta the WAY!



This is a good post! If you are good at what you do, you will be in demand! 
Jeff


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## treevet (Jul 12, 2010)

Bermie said:


> I like raking, I am good at raking, in fact I am the BEST!!!
> 
> Comes from being a lowly apprentice...all they let you do is chop with a machete and rake.
> 
> I get annoyed when people rake, especially on soil, and end up with a 6" pile of soil topped with a few leaves and sticks...what, you can't FLICK it, lemme learn you how to rake, get outta the WAY!



I take pride in raking sometimes too. Comes from being a 2 man crew. They got a nice new rake out for twigs now.


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## The Lawn Shark (Jul 13, 2010)

I hate raking, BUT I also hate watching somebody else do it.....like when they rake so hard half the grass from the yard is in the pile. I had this one kid (19/20yrs old) Rake some sticks/twigs across a stone drivway and picked the pile up (stones and all) and threw them in my chipper..I heard this god awful noise and my groundie and myself came around the corner of the house....
Looked at him as he was picking up another pile, stones and all, falling out of the pile getting ready to throw em in the chipper. My groudie all but tackled him to keep him from throwing it in....I thought my groundie was going to punch him when the kid responded with there just stones.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 13, 2010)

Oh, man. You just touched a hot nerve with me on that one.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 13, 2010)

treevet said:


> I take pride in raking sometimes too. Comes from being a 2 man crew. They got a nice new rake out for twigs now.



I have no choice but to take pride raking. It comes from being a one man crew.
Is that the rake with the curved metal spring-wire tines?


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## treevet (Jul 13, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> I have no choice but to take pride raking. It comes from being a one man crew.
> Is that the rake with the curved metal spring-wire tines?



Yeah, it is gonna tear up some lawn if you don't know how to use it but it is way better than a garden rake for twigs and elm bark and such.


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## tree md (Jul 13, 2010)

My rakings usually get raked onto a tarp and thrown in the truck. I'm telling you, I am literally the fastest rake in the West!!! Wanna race???


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## Tree Machine (Jul 13, 2010)

treevet said:


> Yeah, it is gonna tear up some lawn if you don't know how to use it but it is way better than a garden rake for twigs and elm bark and such.


I have one. I got it last Winter as my heavy-handed ground man kept breaking with wide, plastic rakes.

I had to lessen the curve of each of the tines, they had too much 'hook', it got really grabby with the lawn. One tine at a time, mini vise-grips, gentle partial un-bending.

Now I absolutely love it, much improved, and that's great because I sorta hate raking, but as you say, TreeVet, ya still gotta take pride in it, and as Lawn Shark says, ya gotta keep the gravel out of the mix, and as
Bermie says, flick it ya freakin moron or I'm comin after your sorry a$z with this MACHETE!


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## tree md (Jul 13, 2010)

I hate the plastic rakes. They may be OK for leaf raking but for twigs they suck. Plus they wear down from use on the street and concrete. I gotta have the metal tines. Much more articulation for flicking and going over heavier obstacles.


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 13, 2010)

If ya get a bunch of guys, ALL polishing the pile, you'll never worry about your rakes breaking! We go threw them like candy, I bought the metal ones before, they get lost/broken just the same, I prefer the cheap ones, kinda expect that they wont last long, I watch the hardware store for sales, I got deal recently that had rakes down from 15 to 5, got them all. The blower guys are the same as pile polishers, all fit in the same category, the worthless ones. Had a guy named Kyle, was the best at polishing, we now refer to guys that I have canned for it, "they are in the kyle file"!


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## Tree Machine (Jul 13, 2010)

The pile polisher is just as comfortable "Hiding behind the Blower".

Yes, this is a machine that can be used as a pile polishing substitute.
It can seem like a video game to a polisher, a few versions of that game, one called 'Blowing and blowing and blowing a stick that won't move' another one called 'blowing the same pile of sticks over and over all the way across the yard', then there's 'start blowing from the center of the mess rather than from the outer periphery-inward' 
and my two personal favorites to witness, 'blow a mess across an area you just got cleaned' and 'now that you're in the gravel area, run that sucker at full throttle so we make certain there's plenty of gravel and grit mixed in'.



Yea, LOL.


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## Bermie (Jul 13, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> I have no choice but to take pride raking. It comes from being a one man crew.
> Is that the rake with the curved metal spring-wire tines?



Sounds like me half the time! I get annoyed watching bad raking when still up in the tree, makes me want to throw things down on them.

I don't use anything but a metal spring tine rake...the ones with like 1/4" flat tines...

The other skill is getting the rakings either into a container or onto a tarp to chuck in the truck, ever seen guys rake up to a tarp and most of it end up UNDER the tarp not ON it!!!!
Flat sided trash cans make the best pick up containers, easy to rake into and easy to lift and dump.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 13, 2010)

Hi Bermie,
The metal rake you're describing is the one we've all used from the beginning of time. These new ones are remarkably different, very durable, and somehow faster & easier . 

Because of the gentle, even curve you can scoop under a small pile and lift it without bending over. I got mine at an ISA chapter show in January, it is July and I still have the same rake, which is remarkable, and other than modifying the tines with a little de-curving, it is in the same condition as the day of purchase.

I can't remember the name of the Arb supply from where I got it, but if I come across it, I'll post it. Here's a link to what looks like the same thing, I can't remember what I paid for it, but it was definitely worth it.


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## treevet (Jul 13, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> I have one. I got it last Winter as my heavy-handed ground man kept breaking with wide, plastic rakes.
> 
> I had to lessen the curve of each of the tines, they had too much 'hook', it got really grabby with the lawn. One tine at a time, mini vise-grips, gentle partial un-bending.
> 
> ...



I don't remember Bermie saying that! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## ozzy42 (Jul 13, 2010)

Hey guys and gals,just got back from 2 1/2 weeks in Ar. 
One of my cousins groundies did a classic, useless groundie move at least once every day that is just as bad as pile polishing ,or hiding behind the blower.
He would leave a backyard that was full of brush needing to be dragged,completely empty handed because someone yelled for a scrench or any other thing on the truck out front that was needed.Drove me crazy :bang:

My toting expertise were not needed or required,as there was 4 or 5 groundies every day,but if I am walking to the truck ,I will at least grab a small branch or throw a log on my shoulder.

I don't know if the one guy was stupid ,lazy ,or a bit of both.


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## treevet (Jul 13, 2010)

what a nostalgic thread lol


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 13, 2010)

I need to look into these rakes, maybe that is the problem, I havnt bought them good enough rakes! I am interested in those, Im not sure of a place that sells them around here, i suppose i could order them.................nah, not gonna mail order rakes! 
I believe that all the things, your guys do, such as we have spoken about here, all could be described as polishing, these polishers are turds, and you cant polish one of those!

Found out today, one of them was doing a storm job, all the stuff was on the ground, " go cut it up, get it ready for me" is the instructions i gave, not "cut up the brush so small on the hickory, that there is no cut end for the feed roller, then spend all day doing it and selling it while your on the clock for me to a local restaurant, then because I know you want the hickory log for your self, so you can sell it for firewood ,wait so you can do that on the clock, don't do it on your own time, how silly"


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 13, 2010)

Wow! , Coo-Coo for rakes! Are we that bored?
Jeff


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 13, 2010)

personally, just between us, I like silage forks.


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## treemandan (Jul 13, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Wow! , Coo-Coo for rakes! Are we that bored?
> Jeff



You need really good rakes in this business.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 13, 2010)

treemandan said:


> You need really good rakes in this business.



So are these "Rake's" better than "Swede's". Because you really need good Swede's in this business!
Jeff


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 13, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Wow! , Coo-Coo for rakes! Are we that bored?
> Jeff



What type of rakes do you like, Jeffy? The ones with a cd player and nav system? I like the cheapo, and I #### you not, "Homeowner" is the brand name you can buy at Lowes. Anywhere from 7 to 12 bucks per plastic rake. I used to drop some dough on the big, wide ones but found the medium size tends to break less and you can move them faster and end up collecting more debris. As far as raking goes, there's an art to it. It's kind of hard to explain though. You either get it or you don't.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 13, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> What type of rakes do you like, Jeffy? The ones with a cd player and nav system? I like the cheapo, and I #### you not, "Homeowner" is the brand name you can buy at Lowes. Anywhere from 7 to 12 bucks per plastic rake. I used to drop some dough on the big, wide ones but found the medium size tends to break less and you can move them faster and end up collecting more debris. As far as raking goes, there's an art to it. It's kind of hard to explain though. You either get it or you don't.



Easy Blakester! After 33 years, rakes seems like a boring topic. Yeah, it's an art, sorta, besides, the CD player sucks since the spriklers came on at a bad time, and the Navigation got a little water damage. 
Jeff


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 13, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Easy Blakester! After 33 years, rakes seems like a boring topic. Yeah, it's an art, sorta, besides, the CD player sucks since the spriklers came on at a bad time, and the Navigation got a little water damage.
> Jeff



What happened to the guatemalan kid that was supposed to hold your umbrella? You didn't havta fire him did you? Man, times are tough all over, I guess.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 13, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> What happened to the guatemalan kid that was supposed to hold your umbrella? You didn't havta fire him did you? Man, times are tough all over, I guess.



I let him stay in my carport under a tarp. He really likes it as long as I don't turn off the TV before 11pm! He did see an episode of Jay Leno at 11:35pm, so I think he may be wanting to negotiate! I think I can get him to mow the yard if I give him the "Food Netwok". Hey, it's a shot!
Jeff


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## BC WetCoast (Jul 13, 2010)

For us it's rake handles. New groundies seem to think that the rake handles are like carbon fibre hockey sticks, if you put more bend in it, the job'll go faster. Now we have about 20 rake heads sitting around. Need a rake, you have to beg for a handle and go put it together.


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## Bigus Termitius (Jul 14, 2010)

BC WetCoast said:


> For us it's rake handles. New groundies seem to think that the rake handles are like carbon fibre hockey sticks, if you put more bend in it, the job'll go faster. Now we have about 20 rake heads sitting around. Need a rake, you have to beg for a handle and go put it together.



I had a new guy break a handle on a new rake first day I put it out. I thought: great, here we go. He was a horse and I wondered what I was going to have to make a rake out of that he couldn't break.

But he did keep one running for two years after that. He might not have been the hardest worker, but you knew what you'd get out of him in a days time, which was plenty, and he took care of himself and equipment. That pays dividends.


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## treevet (Jul 14, 2010)

16$ and lifetime warranty at Sherrill? Man they are asking for it.

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143823&stc=1&d=1279107837


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## Bermie (Jul 14, 2010)

treevet said:


> I don't remember Bermie saying that! :hmm3grin2orange:



Ha, If I didn't actually say it I was probably thinking it...hey TM, get outta my head!


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## pdqdl (Jul 14, 2010)

treevet said:


> 16$ and lifetime warranty at Sherrill? Man they are asking for it.
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=143823&stc=1&d=1279107837



What good is a warranty, when return shipping will cost more than a new rake?


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## treemandan (Jul 14, 2010)

I got ahold of a real decent rake, I think they found out it was a really good rake and stopped making them though.
Its called a " no clog" leaf rake. Its your run of the mill plastic jobby with a wooden handle ( mine came with a rubber grip), the tines of the rake are really big and stiff. Other rakes I have used pale in comparison and other people were also impressed with it. It does suck for dust and road use though. I'll get a pic, it was cheap. I enjoy using it and think you will too.


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## treeman75 (Jul 14, 2010)

I was thinking of this thread the other day when I was running the blower. My ground guy was carrying out a few logs and I think I was polishing the file!


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 14, 2010)

treemandan said:


> I got ahold of a real decent rake, I think they found out it was a really good rake and stopped making them though.
> Its called a " no clog" leaf rake. Its your run of the mill plastic jobby with a wooden handle ( mine came with a rubber grip), the tines of the rake are really big and stiff. Other rakes I have used pale in comparison and other people were also impressed with it. It does suck for dust and road use though. I'll get a pic, it was cheap. I enjoy using it and think you will too.



Is it one of those one's where the tines are molded together at the ends, super stiff and ####e? I tried one once, but it was only for a second. Crap, I say. Pure crap.


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## derwoodii (Jul 15, 2010)

As this has segwayed into a kinda of rake thread I just got some of these to test. Hmm looks ok maybe a bit soft but I do like the rake it turn over and shovel feature. Give us a week polishin the piles let you all know.

http://www.arborrakes.com/picture-gallery.php

The wood pick pretty cool had a go it works well stick holds n ya lift away little bending a bit fear-full of stickin a leg if ya miss 

http://www.arborrakes.com/wood-pick.php


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## pdqdl (Jul 15, 2010)

Now we are really de-railing the thread! 

I have a question for everybody: 

The pickaroon pictured above looks like a good way to pick up a small log with one hand. http://www.arborrakes.com/wood-pick.php

But does anybody really use these things? If you do, how convenient is it to get the tool removed from the log once you get to where you are going with it? Is it really practical to pick up wood with this?


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## derwoodii (Jul 15, 2010)

Wood pick, Yes I used and works well with easy release at put down as when weight off unhook is easy. Its the swing to insert that I see as hazard you miss you may win your leg.


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## tree md (Jul 15, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> Now we are really de-railing the thread!
> 
> I have a question for everybody:
> 
> ...



Yes, I used them quite a bit when I was younger and working for other services. I haven't used one since the 90's though and have never owned one myself (not sure why, they are really handy). 

Where they really shine is when you are rolling logs to the truck. It s easy to walk in front of the log and keep it moving by catching it on either end as you go and keep it rolling. They are also nice to move logs around on the log truck or trailer without having to get down and physically roll it with your hands. You can just use the log pic to move it. It's usually pretty easy to remove from the log, just push down and lift up on the handle and it'll come loose most times; much like an axe. 

All the pulpwood guys back in GA were masters of the log pic. They would roll 4-5' pine logs with ease and masterfully maneuver them around obstacles with their log pics (pickaroon).


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 16, 2010)

I have never used one of those, I do use a Cant stick, and it works pretty well, can bite you if your not careful.

I am having shirts made, gonna have some sort of reference to the Polishing, I will where it to Chicago on Sunday at the trade show, if ya see it, grab me, would live to meet you guys in person.

It will be something like "No mo polishing the pile, da chipper needs food" something like that, any suggestions?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 16, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> Touche!
> I will not tolerate Milkers (sp?) My wife is on the job alot, helping with clean up or running a porta wrap, 100lbs soaking wet, will out work most men and will light your but up if your not performing (even me!)
> She said, almost verbatim, what you just said.
> "He's milking the clock, hes gotta go"



I read a few posts and gotta laugh, bet they are ll white kids too 

This is just management thing, no one wants to be a boss. Someone has to keep an eye on the permenant labor types and crack the whip once and a while. I work for a few companies were the crew dose not me because I am too bossy. "what are you, a drill instructor!"

Grab a rake if you need a rest!

Drag that brush out.

Bring a tarp back.

Check gas in the saws

Clear the climbers rope and get the brush out of the LZ

Load those piles on a tarp.

If you wan to call yourself a boss, you have to be bossy at leat a few times a day.

"Why aren't you doint it!?!" "because t is my job to tell you to do it."

"So what exactly is your job Sanborn!?!" "Any thing you cant do; anything you can do is not in my job description."

Though I do like raking, it as a certain zen quality to it. I get own from the tree, clear my gear from th work area, then I grab a rake and meditate.


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## treevet (Jul 16, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> I have never used one of those, I do use a Cant stick, and it works pretty well, can bite you if your not careful.
> 
> I am having shirts made, gonna have some sort of reference to the Polishing, I will where it to Chicago on Sunday at the trade show, if ya see it, grab me, would live to meet you guys in person.
> 
> It will be something like "No mo polishing the pile, da chipper needs food" something like that, any suggestions?



don't they will sell too well......but good luck anyway.


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 16, 2010)

Wasn't looking to sell them! Just for screwing around!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 17, 2010)

How about "stroking the rake"


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## treevet (Jul 17, 2010)

Where's the moderators/censors when you need them?


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 17, 2010)

treevet said:


> Where's the moderators/censors when you need them?



Posing as "deadwood".
Jeff


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 18, 2010)

Now that was funny!


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## treevet (Jul 18, 2010)

I agree....one of his better ones:agree2:


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## Bigus Termitius (Jul 19, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Grab a rake if you need a rest!



Classic. I often grab a rake just to wind down a bit.


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## treevet (Jul 19, 2010)

anybody want to talk technique?

If I got a yard full of dead twigs and elm bark (the worst imo).....I will make a meeeelion piles....just pulling one rake's reach into a pile forming a clean circle......then move on to another ....and another and so on and so on.

Some of these rubes will pull a pile across the entire yard while milking the clock (I mean "polishing the pile")


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 19, 2010)

treevet said:


> anybody want to talk technique?
> 
> If I got a yard full of dead twigs and elm bark (the worst imo).....I will make a meeeelion piles....just pulling one rake's reach into a pile forming a clean circle......then move on to another ....and another and so on and so on.
> 
> Some of these rubes will pull a pile across the entire yard while milking the clock (I mean "polishing the pile")



I don't much care for that method. I find the part of raking that takes the longest is the final touch up where you're trying to get all those last little twigs and leaves into a shovel. Takes time. I start at the back corner of the yard and rake towards the chipper. When the pile becomes to large to efficiently continue hurling across the lawn with your rake pick it up and put it in a wheelbarrow or take it to the chipper. This way you only need to do the final cleanup once, right at the mouth of the chipper. You want to start a flame war over raking techniques, TV? I'm game. Let's DO THIS! lol


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## tree md (Jul 19, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> I don't much care for that method. I find the part of raking that takes the longest is the final touch up where you're trying to get all those last little twigs and leaves into a shovel. Takes time. I start at the back corner of the yard and rake towards the chipper. When the pile becomes to large to efficiently continue hurling across the lawn with your rake pick it up and put it in a wheelbarrow or take it to the chipper. This way you only need to do the final cleanup once, right at the mouth of the chipper. You want to start a flame war over raking techniques, TV? I'm game. Let's DO THIS! lol



I usually do it the same way. Always rake towards the chipper/truck, whatever you're hauling with. I continually have to pound this into new guy's heads. It makes no sense to rake in a direction away from your destination. What, are you going to carry the debris over the area you have just cleaned and have to continuously pick up small sticks and debris that you will invariably drop along the way???

I will start raking in the direction of the truck but I do make piles once the debris starts to get unmanageable. Then I rake it onto a tarp and drag it to the chipper/truck.


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## treevet (Jul 19, 2010)

The ISA should have a raking contest lol.

My tech has evolved BM. I agree if light load on the lawn but when you got a heavy cover of chit then the small circle is the bomb. Usually then into a scoop shovel or tight tined pitchfork then into the tarp then straight into the bed.

We even (my law) often go over the lawn after raking with a tweezer style pick up stick and a small container like looking for a contact lenz. We get raves for clean up.


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## treevet (Jul 19, 2010)

tree md said:


> I usually do it the same way. Always rake towards the chipper/truck, whatever you're hauling with. I continually have to pound this into new guy's heads. It makes no sense to rake in a direction away from your destination. What, are you going to carry the debris over the area you have just cleaned and have to continuously pick up small sticks and debris that you will invariably drop along the way???
> 
> I will start raking in the direction of the truck but I do make piles once the debris starts to get unmanageable. Then I rake it onto a tarp and drag it to the chipper/truck.



yeah I am onboard with cleaning up the farthest spot from the truck then I like to get out of the back yard or have sections complete.

I am completely OCD on clean up. Lotsa clients never even look up in the tree on a pruning tree.


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 19, 2010)

You guys both dig on the tarps, huh? I never got it. First guy I worked for at this game used that method. I think for the most part it's quicker just to load a wheelbarrow and move it out. You can dump it straight into the chipper instead of trying to throw a heavy ass tarp in the truck or emptying it into the road to handle again. Sticks always poking through the tarps, ripping them, no fun. I guess they can work on hedge jobs though...


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## treevet (Jul 19, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> You guys both dig on the tarps, huh? I never got it. First guy I worked for at this game used that method. I think for the most part it's quicker just to load a wheelbarrow and move it out. You can dump it straight into the chipper instead of trying to throw a heavy ass tarp in the truck or emptying it into the road to handle again. Sticks always poking through the tarps, ripping them, no fun. I guess they can work on hedge jobs though...



Dump em on the road.....aaaarrrrgggghhhhh

I am generally not going to put rakings into the chipper. A 10x12 tarp can take a whole yard sometimes. My dump will take rakings.....but it a half hour away.

We just added on to the chip box sides and now my Mack box is a full

18 feet long by
8 feet wide by 
6 feet high.....

Mass stuff until we have to kill an hour plus to go dump at the mulch yard.


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## tree md (Jul 19, 2010)

The real trick is to not have that many sticks to deal with in the first place. That is impossible most times if you're doing a dead tree but on live trees it's easy. Don't limb it to the point where you have tons of sticks and debris in the yard. I like to cut pieces on the ground to what I call "cut t handle" cut them into the biggest pieces that you can carry and get them to the chipper/truck, trailer, firewood pile, whatever. Then you can limb them further if need be or cut them into firewood pieces or whatever size you need to make them manageable. This cuts down on the number of trips you have to make and the amount of debris left in the yard to clean up.


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 19, 2010)

treevet said:


> My dump will take rakings.....but it a half hour away.
> .



I guess that's our difference. Getting rid of clean chips is a breeze, a few wheelbarrow loads of rakings dumped in the back will kill a good chip spot pretty quick. Yeah, it's hard on the knives but they can be changed and sharpened which is easier than finding a new spot to dump.


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## tree md (Jul 19, 2010)

And yes, I have found the tarp to be the fastest method. They will wear out pretty quick but the amount of time that they save more than makes up for it. No making a thousand trips with a scoop shovel or having to pick up the piles by hand and put them into a wheel barrel or can. I simply rake the debris right onto the tarp and carry it right to the truck. I will pick up multiple piles along the way. If it gets too heavy and unmanageable, get two men on it.


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## treevet (Jul 19, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> I guess that's our difference. Getting rid of clean chips is a breeze, a few wheelbarrow loads of rakings dumped in the back will kill a good chip spot pretty quick. Yeah, it's hard on the knives but they can be changed and sharpened which is easier than finding a new spot to dump.



I can relate to that Blakes and been there done that. 

We got a good set up at a mulch processing facility and they will even take any wood if it cut up to 3 feet long even if it is > 3' dia .....right in the chip box with the chips and the rakings.

It all comes down to your dump set up.

But you never NEVER get away with throwing garbage in the box and dumping it anymore.

Hell I used to work with a bunch of Mexicans in the '70's that used take a burrito filled squeege right in the chip box when I worked for a big company in NJ.


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## tree md (Jul 19, 2010)

We got a big green waste dump here that will take any wood, any size. It's free to the city residents. If you're a tree service and dump there regularly you have to set up an account with the city but it's still dirt cheap. They have 2 tub grinders going out there pretty much all the time. I have a few other personal dump sights besides the green waste. It all depends on where I am working and which site is the closest. I have a couple of ranchers who want me to dump to fill in low areas for them.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 19, 2010)

treevet said:


> yeah I am onboard with cleaning up the farthest spot from the truck then I like to get out of the back yard or have sections complete.
> 
> I am completely OCD on clean up. Lotsa clients never even look up in the tree on a pruning tree.



A big blower with the raker helps, 
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 19, 2010)

tree md said:


> We got a big green waste dump here that will take any wood, any size. It's free to the city residents. If you're a tree service and dump there regularly you have to set up an account with the city but it's still dirt cheap. They have 2 tub grinders going out there pretty much all the time. I have a few other personal dump sights besides the green waste. It all depends on where I am working and which site is the closest. I have a couple of ranchers who want me to dump to fill in low areas for them.



What about palm, yucca, erythrina, oleander, phoenix, etc?
Jeff


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## treevet (Jul 19, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> A big blower with the raker helps,
> Jeff



I am sure you're right but I have never been able to make myself buy a backpack blower because of the space it takes and what you get from it over a hand held relatively speaking.

I know it would get stolen because of the importance I feel for it.


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## oldirty (Jul 19, 2010)

nothing beats a good backpack for cleanup. the dude i work with now hated on backpack blowers for the longest time. i couldn't understand it. i borrowed the stumpgrinders backpack blower for a couple days a few months ago. we now have a relatively brand new stihl br660 or some such. supposedly the strongest blower on the market. sweet.

i too personally hate the use of tarps. barrel for me for the fine chit then tossed into the back and bundles of brush and whatnot for the chipper. no road rakings in the chipper though! thats rule number one of raking.


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2010)

Barrels and wheel barrows take up a lot of space.

I have been around the block a few times and most use tarps.


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## oldirty (Jul 20, 2010)

throw the barrel over the jack stand and bungee it down?


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2010)

pict. buddy?


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## Tree Machine (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm a big fan of tarps. If I can get away with it, I tarp the whole area. In the summer, ya gotta be more careful, you can fry a lawn.

Also a proponent of raking into small circles, then dragging a small tarp around to get them. I use a light hand, ever so careful about getting gravel into the mix.

Almost always, I have a tarp laid out in front of the chipper as the lawn will otherwise take a beating here. Wooden chopsticks are a cheap and effective means of pinning down the corners. If on a driveway or street, no tarp beneath the infeed.

I have a small log arch I seem to be using more and more. Ideally I move out a limb as big as is humanly possible. I can move something out that would otherwise take 4 men, or you'd have to process it remotely where it lays and do the multi-trip conventional method. 

I'm a major fan of the backpack blower, the biggest one you can get. If the material is lighter, I might blow into three zones where raking I would have done 6 or 8. I've gotten good at bending down to pick up a non-blowable stick without breaking stride on the blowing. 

I'm working solo these days, so efficiency in the cleanup is always a make or break on the day. Without a good strategy, approach and execution on the cleanup. As Treevet says,


> I am completely OCD on clean up. Lotsa clients never even look up in the tree on a pruning tree.


Leave them with a shoddy, incomplete cleanup, that's what they are left with, and this is the impression you permanently give them. The pruning is secondary when they're having to decide whether to cleanup after you, or see if their lawn service will clean up after you.


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 20, 2010)

I prefer the blower and a couple rakes in front of it, moves the materiel across the yard real quick, all the way to the chipper/trailer or whatever we put it in.


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> I'm a big fan of tarps. If I can get away with it, I tarp the whole area. In the summer, ya gotta be more careful, you can fry a lawn.
> 
> Also a proponent of raking into small circles, then dragging a small tarp around to get them. I use a light hand, ever so careful about getting gravel into the mix.
> 
> ...



bammm! right on the money


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## Bermie (Jul 20, 2010)

I carry all the branches out, then a trashcan or tarp for the larger twigs, then start raking pile to pick up, with one peson the flat trashcan is easiest, two people, the tarp. Its hard to get a tight edge on a tarp with one person.

As for blowers, don't have one...borrow one from time to time if its really needed. I have a mechanical blower...aka...a broom. I check the state of the property when I do the bid, if its a neat as a pin, edged and not a leaf in sight, time to borrow the blower, if not, a few leaves and tiny twigs wil not matter.

The biggest problem I see with blowers is when the gardeners are blowing their leaves and stuff, right under a tree, and they are blowing all the loose soil as well, it erodes away from around what grass there is below the tree...I get calls from landscapers who say 'the tree needs to be thinned...the grass is so sparse below, not enough light getting through...', well yes that might be part of the problem, but watch your gardeners blowing all the soil away!!!


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## tree md (Jul 20, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> What about palm, yucca, erythrina, oleander, phoenix, etc?
> Jeff



There is no restrictions on what green waste you can dump there. As long as it is plant material it's OK. They are grinding it with the tub grinders and composting it. City residents can come and pick up bags of mulch as well as come out there and cut as much firewood as their hearts desire. They sell the rest of the mulch and ship it off somewhere. I can't remember what they do with it. They have mountains of mulch out there.

The interesting thing is it used to be a central hub where all the local tree services would meet during the day. Outside of the dump there would always be cardboard signs lining the fence looking for help wanted. There would be signs asking for climbers, ground men, CDL drivers, everything. Those signs disappeared about a year and a half ago. I haven't seen a help wanted sign out there in the longest. Kind of gives you a clue to the state of our local economy.


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2010)

tree md said:


> .
> 
> Outside of the dump there would always be cardboard signs lining the fence looking for help wanted. There would be signs asking for climbers, ground men, CDL drivers, everything. Those signs disappeared about a year and a half ago. I haven't seen a help wanted sign out there in the longest. Kind of gives you a clue to the state of our local economy.



Is the clue that there is no work out there or....

People can get along just fine without working (and us workers paying for it)?


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## tree md (Jul 20, 2010)

treevet said:


> Is the clue that there is no work out there or....
> 
> People can get along just fine without working (and us workers paying for it)?



Hey, I'm staying as busy as I want to be and I haven't put out an ad since 2008. I have scaled back a lot though. 2 years ago I was running 2 crews half the time (sometimes 5 man crews each). Now I've got three hands including my dad. I've had a few of my competitors call me looking for either a job or contract work in the past year and a half. Had a well qualified, certified arborist call me today looking for a job. I took his name and number. I told him I just don't have the business to support another climber right now but would give him a call in the future if I can put him to work. I could use someone like that sometimes but I hate to tell somebody yes and then only be able to work them part time. With his credentials, he would be better off with someone who is doing more volume.


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 20, 2010)

treevet said:


> pict. buddy?



You should be able to flip it upside down on top of your chipper. Not sure though, we carried one on my old boss's 1800 everywhere. Upside down wheels toward the ass and handles on either side of the chute. Looked like is was made for that spot. My bandit won't hold one there so we usually throw it in the back of the dump. You're right, takes up a bit of room there.


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2010)

To me (no offense intended) a wheelbarrow is like tihts on a bull when you got a Dingo. We put mass loads on a tarp then drag it to the truck and sometimes pick up the tarp with the crane and wave bye bye. We also got a bin that is good for tossing mass stuff in then booming and dumping into the box. It's all good.....and.....drumrollllllll

it is what it is


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## oldirty (Jul 20, 2010)

hey blakes. your bandit have the 2 bars in front of the radiator? the anti jackknife bars? stuff the barrel over them they hold pretty good or again go over one and bungee it down to the frame or to the radiator cover.

i love me a great clean up too but i find it a bit on the excessive side to be tarping the area around the chipper there TM. next time you pull this little move off i need some pics, please. just to see the setup. 

hey tv. you got a pic of your chiptruck chipper set up? i'll find you a sweet barrel spot. i'll have a pic of our barrel hideaway for you tomorrow.


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## tree md (Jul 20, 2010)

treevet said:


> To me (no offense intended) a wheelbarrow is like tihts on a bull when you got a Dingo. We put mass loads on a tarp then drag it to the truck and sometimes pick up the tarp with the crane and wave bye bye. We also got a bin that is good for tossing mass stuff in then booming and dumping into the box. It's all good.....and.....drumrollllllll
> 
> it is what it is



I prefer to boom the whole tree out and just clean up around the chipper. Would be nice if they all went that way...


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## oldirty (Jul 20, 2010)

we talking wheel barrel or big trash barrel things here? i dont have much love for the wheel barrel. too landscapey for me.


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2010)

oldirty said:


> hey tv. you got a pic of your chiptruck chipper set up? i'll find you a sweet barrel spot. i'll have a pic of our barrel hideaway for you tomorrow.



Been having trouble embedding. Management may have me on super secret probation.

I have been a baaaad boy.


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2010)

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144502&stc=1&d=1279669851


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## tree md (Jul 20, 2010)

I'd close the wheel barrel up inside the shute... or strap it to the back somewhere. That way when it falls off there is no chance of it scratching your paint and you can leave it junked on the side of the road where it belongs... :hmm3grin2orange:


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2010)

tree md said:


> I'd close the wheel barrel up inside the shute... or strap it to the back somewhere. That way when it falls off there is no chance of it scratching your paint and you can leave it junked on the side of the road where it belongs... :hmm3grin2orange:



If it was in the shute we could just run it thru and have a bunch of small wheelbarrows if it was a small job.


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## oldirty (Jul 20, 2010)

lol, md.


hey tv sweet set up. the over hang might be a factor back there but i'd say bungee a barrel over that hydraulic jack stand!


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2010)

Then when you gotta drop the chipper :bang:

Little schit like that just pisces me off. 

Sometimes we got a garb can but the big green barrel rarely leaves the yard.

You got one in the box every day od?


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## Blakesmaster (Jul 20, 2010)

oldirty said:


> we talking wheel barrel or big trash barrel things here? i dont have much love for the wheel barrel. too landscapey for me.



I WAS talking wheelbarrow not trash barrel but I may try your idea. You use the square ones and lay them over to rake into? Eric likes the wheelbarrow for moving a lot of wood at one time, I generally find it much easier to throw chunks on my shoulder and walk them out but he can move more material. I think a lot of it has to do with a lower center of gravity. I'm only 6 feet tall but I'm all legs and pushing a loaded barrow is hard on the back.


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## oldirty (Jul 20, 2010)

just one of the bigger round trash cans. i'll snap up a pic tomorrow.


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## treevet (Jul 20, 2010)

the big barrels work quite well with the cheapo dollys sometimesopcorn:


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 20, 2010)

treevet said:


> Then when you gotta drop the chipper :bang:
> 
> Little schit like that just pisces me off.
> 
> ...



I keep a 10 yard in the yard just for situaions. Works great! Get's dumped every Thursday,Cool.
Jeff


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## oldirty (Jul 21, 2010)

here it is! sitting nicely on the jack stand.


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## treevet (Jul 21, 2010)

Have to try that. Nice can, got a couple of those in my driveway. Again those also work great with a cheap dolly.


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 22, 2010)

so yesterday, I see a local hack out on a job, has 8 guys! 2 of them were working, other 6 all had rakes in there hand, raking up little parts of the yard! talk about polishing the pile! I wish I had the money to have 8 guys on 1 job, and it was like a 40-50 maple! and one guy had a mowhawk with a bunch of metal hanging out of his face! This guy had a large inheritance and bought some equipment, has a grapple truck, watched him use it to knock the stump off, they kept smacking the stump really hard with it, they are all scratching their heads, then, the owner goes over, puts a wedge in the cut, pulls out a saw and cuts for 3 or 4 minutes, then gets up and tries to smack it off again, no luck, more cutting, finally, after 4 attempts they get it off, then the grapple operator grabs the stump and tries to lift it over a fence and into the truck, didn't have a good bite, stump flips out, NAILS the fence, I had enough at that point and left! For now on, if I get a polisher, I will send him to those guys!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 22, 2010)

Rakeology, transindetal raketation...


What I will do is determine the outer edges of the work area, and work around it to define the zone. 

If it is fall, then a blower is used on start up to define the work zone (WZ) if we are not getting paid for a fall cleanup (sometimes it is a throw-in though).

Then i will rake into berms and piles that are gradually loaded onto tarps as the fines are moved along with the rake. 

I can usually get a generous portion of the fines onto the tarp with the rake fan and my boot. Everything generally moves to a central location depending on the size of the WZ. 

On bigger jobs I try to establish one or two general drag paths, so that we do not have to fine rake the entire yard.

On bigger jobs I encourage people to regularly pick up a rake, especially in the LZ so that we are not up to our ankles in a twiggy mess when the drag & chip is done.

I try to bid hings so that fine raking is defined in the contract. It is usually the next thing I offer as discount after big wood. I find that many startup companies often loose time on cleanup because they do not have a system, and do not add more time for certain species. To me honey locust and green ash are the worst.

Also having several styles of rakes on the truck can help expedite the process. Those cheap dime-store flimsy plastic wide fan types will loose you money in time-on-site.

I know a few guys who will bring a commercial mower along to scalp the lawn first, then do a cleanup pass to get errant leaves and twigs.

Every trade has the saying "The customer may not know what we do, but they know a good cleanup form a bad one"


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## Tree Machine (Jul 23, 2010)

Well said.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 23, 2010)

oldirty said:


> i love me a great clean up too but i find it a bit on the excessive side to be tarping the area around the chipper there TM. next time you pull this little move off i need some pics, please. just to see the setup.


Actually, I'm speaking of tarping a runway to the chipper. Consider; every time you chip, you shake out a bunch of mess. This mess either gets cleaned up or ignored,,.. or something in between. Most (but not all) the time I throw down a runway tarp. This one is a 6x20 heavy duty tarp like they use to cover tractor trailers. I had this one custom made to mount onto a roller underneath the chipper's infeed box (which I've not yet done).


Remember, I'm running a 6" Bandit. I drag light brush. You guys using mondo chippers, not practical, you'll peel the tarp, I'd imagine.

In the image below, I have to admit, the mess was made between a house and a fence. The 'runway' was skidded from the drop zone to the chipper, where it is seen here. No raking.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 23, 2010)

Here's the image of it in the drop zone. Note, where the brick pavers end, it becomes gravel. It was a small pile so I was able to skid it out whole.







I really don't like raking, so anything I can do to minimize it, I'll do.

HA! I found a video clip of that little move


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## Tree Machine (Jul 23, 2010)

Here's a better video, time-lapse. This is more typical, I don't tarp the area around the chipper, but rather tarp the drop zone, then pull the chipper onto, or as near as I can get to it.

I rarely regret laying down tarps. I almost always regret when I don't.

This was a sweetgum prune and there was going to be 6 gazillion seed balls. If you can keep the balls from ever touching the lawn, you're that much further ahead. Another job, no raking necessary, ------> dreaded sweetgum balls.


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## Tree Pig (Jul 23, 2010)




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## Grace Tree (Jul 23, 2010)

*8x8 handled tarps from Wesspur*

We have a few of these. Load them up and pick them by the handles with the mini skid grapple. They don't blow around and they've held up well.

Poly mesh brush tarps
8’ x 8’ Brush Tarp
8’ x 8’ Brush Tarp with Handles
$39.00 Item # uti119

Mesh tarp made of woven UV resistant PVC-coated polyester. Six handles make it great for loading up and transporting brush. Edges are heat sealed and grommet ed with brass grommets on each corner and all sides at 2’ intervals. Works will for lightweight to rugged materials and handles great even in extreme conditions. Resists water, mildew, and rot, excellent durability.


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## sgreanbeans (Apr 25, 2011)

Well its been a while, but I got another one. A pile polisher. Hired this kid who worked wiping butts for 4 years at a retirement home, as a grunt. Big farm strong looking lad. Figured "now that's work ethic" WRONG! Kid will watch ya work hard all day, hold a rake up nicely. Tell em " run get the wheel barrow and rake start cleaning that up" He slowly wanders over there, grabs the stuff, slowly makes his was back, oh wait, forgot something in the truck, better go get it, got it, wait! gotta reset my helmet, so it looks cool on me, better check in the mirror, etc, you guys get the point. Kid can rake a very nice pile of saw dust and then try and pick it up with the pitch fork, watch it fall thru, rake up a nice pile again!
I gave him the "what for" on Saturday, today will most likely be the last day, as we have a hill side to clear of deadwood, lots a humping wood up. I am sure this will be a bad day for him, so we will see!
He knows that if I dont see a 100% improvement, he will need to go back ta wipin butts!


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## tree MDS (Apr 25, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Well its been a while, but I got another one. A pile polisher. Hired this kid who worked wiping butts for 4 years at a retirement home, as a grunt. Big farm strong looking lad. Figured "now that's work ethic" WRONG! Kid will watch ya work hard all day, hold a rake up nicely. Tell em " run get the wheel barrow and rake start cleaning that up" He slowly wanders over there, grabs the stuff, slowly makes his was back, oh wait, forgot something in the truck, better go get it, got it, wait! gotta reset my helmet, so it looks cool on me, better check in the mirror, etc, you guys get the point. Kid can rake a very nice pile of saw dust and then try and pick it up with the pitch fork, watch it fall thru, rake up a nice pile again!
> I gave him the "what for" on Saturday, today will most likely be the last day, as we have a hill side to clear of deadwood, lots a humping wood up. I am sure this will be a bad day for him, so we will see!
> He knows that if I dont see a 100% improvement, he will need to go back ta wipin butts!



Fire his ass! 

Wish I could do it for you!


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## tree md (Apr 25, 2011)

No matter how much you try, you just can't polish a turd...


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## treeman75 (Apr 26, 2011)

I hate trying to show how to rake, they always want to get all the dead grass. Alot of times I have to grab the rake and do it my self. It drives me CRAZY! I think I am the best raker around.


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## treeman75 (Apr 26, 2011)

Me and my two guys work well together. We can knock out some sheit pretty quick. I always have to laugh when were cleaning up to see who grabs the blower first.


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