# Worker's Comp- You have questions, I have answers



## cjnspecial (Mar 10, 2008)

I work for a comp carrier locally and want to help fellow members save money, work safer and become more profitable. Anything from safety, rates, audits, claims, whatever..I can help you out or point you in the right direction. 
(I do not sell insurance or want to sell insurance, btw).


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 11, 2008)

Where do you find a cheaper rate in Ga. ???? Private or maybe state ???


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## cjnspecial (Mar 11, 2008)

OLD CHIPMONK said:


> Where do you find a cheaper rate in Ga. ???? Private or maybe state ???



If your a small company and fall into the assigned risk pool, your stuck like chuck with about a 40% rate($40 per $100 in payroll). The bigger the company, better claims experience, # years experience, safety controls, etc all increase your chances of getting out of the assigned risk pool and with a premier carrier. 

Here are the rates of all the companies that write tree services in Georgia with the minimum premium beside it:
ACE AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY 20.14 $750 
ACE FIRE UNDERWRITERS INSURANCE COMPANY 18.13 $750 
ACE INDEMNITY INSURANCE COMPANY 23.16 $750 
ACE PROPERTY AND CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 27.66 $750 
ACIG INSURANCE COMPANY 16.29 $000 
ADVANTAGE WORKERS COMPENSATION INSURANCE COMPANY 17.78 $750 
AIG CASUALTY COMPANY 23.40 $750 
AIU INSURANCE COMPANY 19.89 $750 
ALL AMERICA INSURANCE COMPANY 19.41 $500 
AMCOMP ASSURANCE CORPORATION 18.68 $1000 
AMCOMP PREFERRED INSURANCE COMPANY 25.6 $1000 
AMERICAN CASUALTY COMPANY OF READING PENNSYLVANIA 12.11 $750 
AMERICAN ECONOMY INSURANCE COMPANY 16.25 $750 
AMERICAN FIRE & CASUALTY COMPANY 18.72 $750 
AMERICAN HOME ASSURANCE COMPANY 23.40 $750 
AMERICAN INTERNATIONAL SOUTH INSURANCE COMPANY 15.44 $750 
AMERICAN INTERSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY 12.33 $0 
AMERISURE INSURANCE COMPANY 19.38 $750 
AMERISURE MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 22.48 $750 
ARGONAUT INSURANCE COMPANY 19.67 $750 
ARGONAUT MIDWEST INSURANCE COMPANY 16.23 $750 
ASSOCIATED INDUSTRIES INSURANCE COMPANY, INC. 15.74 $750 
ASSOCIATION INSURANCE COMPANY 18.68 $750 
ATLANTIC INSURANCE COMPANY 13.18 $750 
BANKERS STANDARD INSURANCE COMPANY 18.13 $750 
BITUMINOUS CASUALTY CORPORATION 19.09 $750 
BITUMINOUS FIRE AND MARINE INSURANCE COMPANY 16.23 $750 
BRIDGEFIELD CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 19.12 $750 
BROTHERHOOD MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 21.12 $750 
CANAL INSURANCE COMPANY 25.16 $850 
CENTRAL MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 22.05 $500 
CINCINNATI CASUALTY COMPANY (THE) 19.22 $750 
CINCINNATI INDEMNITY COMPANY (THE) 24.22 $750 
CINCINNATI INSURANCE COMPANY 19.22 $750 
COLUMBIA NATIONAL INSURANCE COMPANY 21.45 $750 
COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY INSURANCE COMPANY 26.91 $750 
CONTINENTAL CASUALTY COMPANY 18.50 $750 
EASTGUARD INSURANCE COMPANY 15.73 $750 
ELECTRIC INSURANCE COMPANY 15.54 $0 
EMPLOYERS INSURANCE COMPANY OF WAUSAU 24.53 $750 
EVEREST NATIONAL INSURANCE COMPANY 19.14 $1000 
EVEREST SECURITY INSURANCE COMPANY 14.84 $1000 
FCCI INSURANCE COMPANY 22.14 $750 
FEDERATED MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 23.60 $750 
FEDERATED SERVICE INSURANCE COMPANY 21.24 $750 
FIRST LIBERTY INSURANCE CORPORATION 18.63 $750 
FRANKENMUTH MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 18.76 $1000 
GRANITE STATE INSURANCE COMPANY 23.40 $750 
GRAPHIC ARTS MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 20.18 $750 
GREAT AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY 15.58 $750 
GREAT WEST CASUALTY COMPANY 23.72 $750 
GREATER NEW YORK MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 18.71 $750 
GUIDEONE ELITE INSURANCE COMPANY 11.53 $750 
GUIDEONE MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 14.41 $750 
HARLEYSVILLE MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 20.69 $750 
HARTFORD ACCIDENT AND INDEMNITY COMPANY 15.06 $750 
HARTFORD CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 20.78 $750 
HARTFORD FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY 18.19 $750 
HARTFORD INSURANCE COMPANY OF THE MIDWEST 31.18 $750 
HARTFORD INSURANCE COMPANY OF THE SOUTHEAST 23.39 $750 
HARTFORD UNDERWRITERS INSURANCE COMPANY 28.57 $750 
INDEMNITY INSURANCE COMPANY OF NORTH AMERICA 18.13 $750 
INSURANCE COMPANY OF NORTH AMERICA 23.16 $750 
INSURANCE COMPANY OF THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA (THE) 23.40 $750 
KEY RISK INSURANCE COMPANY 16.61 $750 
LIBERTY INSURANCE CORPORATION 12.94 $750 
LIBERTY MUTUAL FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY 14.82 $750 
LIBERTY MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 23.51 $750 
LM INSURANCE CORPORATION 10.31 $750 
MIDDLESEX INSURANCE COMPANY 17.62 $750 
MIDWEST EMPLOYERS CASUALTY COMPANY 18.39 $750 
MONROE GUARANTY INSURANCE COMPANY 29.19 $750 
NATIONAL AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY 12.89 $750 
NATIONAL FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY OF HARTFORD 16.15 $750 
NATIONAL TRUST INSURANCE COMPANY 16.61 $750 
NATIONAL UNION FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY OF PITTSBURGH, PA. 23.40 $750 
NATIONWIDE MUTUAL FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY 20 $750 
NATIONWIDE MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 20 $750 
NEW HAMPSHIRE INSURANCE COMPANY 19.89 $750 
OHIO CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 33.55 $750 
OHIO SECURITY INSURANCE COMPANY 28.66 $750 
OLD DOMINION INSURANCE COMPANY 16.59 $750 
PACIFIC EMPLOYERS INSURANCE COMPANY 33.20 $750 
PATRIOT GENERAL INSURANCE COMPANY 13.95 $750 
PENN MILLERS INSURANCE COMPANY 14.41 $750 
PENNSYLVANIA NATIONAL MUTUAL CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 22.15 $750 
PROVIDENCE WASHINGTON INSURANCE COMPANY 19.65 $750 
REPUBLIC-FRANKLIN INSURANCE COMPANY 18.10 $750 
SAFETY FIRST INSURANCE COMPANY 24.22 $9257 
SAFETY NATIONAL CASUALTY CORPORATION 18.50 $7106 
SECURITY NATIONAL INSURANCE COMPANY 11.21 $750 
SELECTIVE INSURANCE COMPANY OF AMERICA 16.30 $750 
SELECTIVE INSURANCE COMPANY OF SOUTH CAROLINA 17.61 $750 
SELECTIVE INSURANCE COMPANY OF THE SOUTHEAST 20.16 $750 
SELECTIVE WAY INSURANCE COMPANY 12.50 $750 
SENTINEL INSURANCE COMPANY, LTD. 24.68 $750 
SENTRY INSURANCE A MUTUAL COMPANY 20.37 $750 
SENTRY SELECT INSURANCE COMPANY 19.67 $750 
SOUTHERN INSURANCE COMPANY OF VIRGINIA 26.93 $750 
SOUTHERN TRUST INSURANCE COMPANY 18.98 $750 
ST. PAUL FIRE AND CASUALTY INSURANCE COMPANY 15.04 $750 
ST. PAUL GUARDIAN INSURANCE COMPANY 12.03 $750 
ST. PAUL MERCURY INSURANCE COMPANY 15.04 $750 
ST. PAUL PROTECTIVE INSURANCE COMPANY 16.94 $750 
STATE FARM FIRE & CASUALTY COMPANY 19.73 $750 
TOKIO MARINE AND NICHIDO FIRE INSURANCE CO., LTD. 15.44 $750 
TRANS PACIFIC INSURANCE COMPANY 15.44 $750 
TRANSPORTATION INSURANCE COMPANY 18.50 $750 
TRINITY UNIVERSAL INSURANCE COMPANY 11.21 $750 
TRINITY UNIVERSAL INSURANCE COMPANY OF KANSAS, INC. 11.21 $750 
TWIN CITY FIRE INSURANCE COMPANY 25.98 $750 
ULLICO CASUALTY COMPANY 18.71 $750 
UNIVERSAL UNDERWRITERS INSURANCE COMPANY 12.45 $750 
UTICA MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY 22.42 $750 
VALLEY FORGE INSURANCE COMPANY 16.15 $750 
VININGS INSURANCE COMPANY 17.30 $750 
WAUSAU BUSINESS INSURANCE COMPANY 20.69 $750 
WAUSAU GENERAL INSURANCE COMPANY 17.97 $750 
WAUSAU UNDERWRITERS INSURANCE COMPANY 21.53 $750 
WEST AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY 23.76 $750 
WILLIAMSBURG NATIONAL INSURANCE COMPANY 11.5455 $750 
YORK INSURANCE COMPANY 17.77 $750


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## DDM (Mar 11, 2008)

Do you have a similar list for SC?


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## cjnspecial (Mar 12, 2008)

DDM said:


> Do you have a similar list for SC?



Only thing I can find is the assigned risk rate of 38% from 2006  
AFAIK SC is still an open market, the Insurance companies MUST file their rates with the state and it's public information. So worst case is the states insurance or comp commission can send you a list of rates by company. 
I'll do a little more research at work tomorrow and see what I can dredge up.


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 12, 2008)

Thank you for the Ga. list. I'll do some inquires & then approach our local agent. He only represents 2 providers at this time. The current 48 per cent rate makes , being competetive, diffficult. Again, we appreciate your efforts !


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## Panama (Mar 12, 2008)

*Nice post*

Great post CJNSPECIAL, Any idea where would I could find a list like that for Virginia?


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## masterarbor (Mar 12, 2008)

how 'bout ohio?


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## Slvrmple72 (Mar 12, 2008)

masterarbor said:


> how 'bout ohio?



Yeah! I'll second that!


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## cjnspecial (Mar 12, 2008)

masterarbor said:


> how 'bout ohio?





Slvrmple72 said:


> Yeah! I'll second that!




Sorry fellas, Ohio is what's called a monopolistic state, meaning the state(or state agency) writes ALL comp policies for all businesses operating in that state. 
Only option is maybe become part of a PEO and because your part of a larger risk pool, you *usually* get a break on your rates. On the downside, the PEO gets a cut of your business.


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## cjnspecial (Mar 12, 2008)

Panama said:


> Great post CJNSPECIAL, Any idea where would I could find a list like that for Virginia?



Assigned risk is 17.28 % effective 4/1/08 with a minimum premium of $750. 

There is a link to the loss cost multipliers. In general, the lower the LCM, the lower the rate will be. The overall loss cost for virginia for code 0106(Tree pruning) is 9.36% so if you see a company with a LCM of 1.5 the expected rate is about 14% (9.36*1.5). Keep in mind the the overall loss cost is an average from all the insurance companies in VA and each companies loss cost can vary GREATLY from the average. 

http://www.scc.virginia.gov/division/boi/webpages/inspagedocs/wcmultiplierlist.pdf

If you want to see the exact rates, you have to make an appointment with the Bureau.
http://www.scc.virginia.gov/division/boi/webpages/reviewrates.htm


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## DDM (Mar 13, 2008)

When you state lowest policy amount your reffering to 1 man operation thats the owner exempting himself from coverage?


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## ATH (Mar 13, 2008)

cjnspecial said:


> Sorry fellas, Ohio is what's called a monopolistic state, meaning the state(or state agency) writes ALL comp policies for all businesses operating in that state.
> Only option is maybe become part of a PEO and because your part of a larger risk pool, you *usually* get a break on your rates. On the downside, the PEO gets a cut of your business.


yep, the first year you pay the State's rate. After you have been in the system for a year, you will get a lot of offers for group rating. My rate went from something like 40% to close to 10%. They are now saying that those under the group ratings are not paying enough, so they'll likely go up a little, but at least they will be reasonable.


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## cjnspecial (Mar 13, 2008)

DDM said:


> When you state lowest policy amount your reffering to 1 man operation thats the owner exempting himself from coverage?



Yep, it's the absolute lowest cost for a policy even if you are excluded (or include and make virtually no money) and no payroll or maybe a very, very small amount of payroll. 
I think you don't need comp if there are 3 or less employees but I'm not an attorney so it's best to check out all the angles of not having comp (from a liability/legal standpoint) with an agent or attorney familiar with your state's laws.


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## Panama (Mar 17, 2008)

*Appreciate it!*

Thanks for the Virginia info.


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## Torquin (Mar 19, 2008)

Oh boy, have I been waiting for this thread!

My company has only been in business for about 8 months. My partner has 10 years experience in the tree business, but never owned a company.

We have several guys we use hear and there, as we have been doing this on the weekends, mostly, until we had enough business to go full time. Next week we are going full time. I am a computer geek by trade, and will not be quitting my regular job in the forseeable future, but will help out on tree jobs when needed or am available.

We have no employees, and plan to 1099 our help initially. People I have spoken to, including my Dad (owns a car repair shop) say that I should have WC even though I don't have any employees and it is not required by Virginia(?) law (until I have 3 full time employees). I suppose this is because my help could possibly sue me for a job related injury.

One provider I spoke to, when geting my GL insurance, said she wouldn't write my GL without a WC policy also, even though I had no employees. She said something about "Statutory employee".

Questions:
1. What is a "statutory employee in the WC context?

2. Would a "statutory employee" on my WC policy cover any guy that got hurt, employee or "contractor" (1099 guy)?

3. Can my partner and I be covered under the WC policy? (My Dad said he went to the doctor on WC once, even though he is the owner of the business)

4. If I want myself and my partner to be covered, do I need to do anythign special? Do I need to specifically put us on the policy, or does that come under the "statutory employee" thing?

I will certainly have more questions, but can we start with those?

Thanks,
Chris


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## cjnspecial (Mar 21, 2008)

Torquin said:


> Oh boy, have I been waiting for this thread!
> 
> My company has only been in business for about 8 months. My partner has 10 years experience in the tree business, but never owned a company.
> 
> ...



The law doesn't require it but you could be opening yourself and/or your business to huge liability by not having comp(medical bills can run into the millions if long term care is involved) and it's responsible to want to want to help out your workers if they are injured and can't work, IMO. 
To answer your questions:
1. Statutes are laws so you may hire a "contract" worker that you 1099 and he is not considered an "employee" by IRS standards but is considered an employee according the to the workers compensation statutes. Example:
Homeowner hires you to cut trees and you hire subcontractors to do the work so the relationship is: Homeowner>You>Subs. Who is the statutory employer of the Subs employees provided the subs do not have their own comp policy? The homeowner is not because he is not in the trade, business or occupation of cutting trees. You are considered the statutory employer because you are the professional he hired and are responible for ensuring the work is completed. 
2. It depends. Generally, comp covers people you hire to perform work within your trade, business or occupation. Virginia has some exceptions your agent or attorney can better cover because case law will have defined the paramaters of those exceptions. 
3. Yes
4. If you are a partnership, you and your partner would be automatically excluded from your policy unless you sign a written form electing to be covered. 

Here's a good link:
http://www.vwc.state.va.us/employers_guide.htm

They list some exception on there but I really, really caution you becase VA case law interprets and defines those exceptions and it can get tricky. Misinterpreting some of those items can cost you big money in insurance premiums.


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## corndogg (Mar 21, 2008)

Awesome Thread! It's great for us new guys to see what we got comin before we go to the insurance man. Thanks for making it easy to understand. I am a new operation and plan on having at least one full time employee this year. 

1 So I'm gonna pay 40% or so on him for the first year anyway Yes?

2 I have major medical insurance, 10,000 deducible. Should I cover myself under wcomp? I'm not gonna show much salary for myself. How much additional will it cost besides the 40% rate?

3 If I get minor injury is it better to go through work comp or just pay out of pocket? I nicked my leg once and payed $300 for stitches, my fault anyway.

4 I thought I heard you get the premium money, the $750, back at the end of year. Or is that the cost of writing the policy even if not used?

Thanks again, very helpful!!


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## cjnspecial (Mar 21, 2008)

corndogg said:


> Awesome Thread! It's great for us new guys to see what we got comin before we go to the insurance man. Thanks for making it easy to understand. I am a new operation and plan on having at least one full time employee this year.
> 
> 1 So I'm gonna pay 40% or so on him for the first year anyway Yes?
> 
> ...



1. If you are new in business you will probably fall into the assigned risk pool and the rate is about 25%. 
2. Maybe, you would have to do the math to see which would be better for you. If you make $50,000 then your premium just to cover you would be $12,500. In most cases you are better off excluding yourself, buying a health insurance policy and a disability policy like AFLAC. 
3. The more claims you report, the worse it looks to your insurance carrier and they will jack your rates up eventually. In general, you're better off paying them out of pocket but check with your insurance company because some of them require you to report claims you pay out of pocket. 
4. Nope. The carrier keeps the minimum premium to cover their cost of writing the policy, paper, labor, overhead, etc. You get a big goose egg back. 
**On a side note, insurance companies most common way to evaluate an account is by looking at it's loss ratio. It's basically the amount of money they have paid out in claims for your account divided by the amount of money you have paid them. Example: if over 3 years they have paid out $20,000 in claims and you have paid in $10,000 in premium....your account has a 200% loss ratio. Which is bad, they lost 2 dollars for every dollar they took in. To help prepare for future expexted losses, they are gong to jack your rate up sky high. 
There is also a saying in insurance:"Frequency breeds severity." That means that if your business has a bunch of small claims, it's only a matter of time before your business has a big claim. If you report 5 claims where the workers nick their legs and require stitches. The underwriter is going to look at that and think it's only a matter of time before someone cuts theirself seriously. From there, the underwriter will require your workers wear chaps or they will tack on an extra 20-50% to your premium. They could possibly drop your coverage as well. 

My point is :Try to minimize the risk of injuries by wearing PPE, hiring reputable people and using common sense. If you don't, you better have deep pockets.


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## southsoundtree (Mar 21, 2008)

This is a great thread.

I work in WA state. Here the state department of Licensing and Industries takes care of worker's comp. I pay an hourly rate based on the work. If we are doing tree work or using a chipper, I report that and pay about $2.25 per hour per employee regardless of salary. If we are landscaping its about $1. 25/ hour/ employee. The employee pays a few cents per hour as their contribution.

Are there other states that use the gov't instead of a private insurance company?

My friend is in IL and wants to go legit. What do rates look like that?

Thanks!!


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## cjnspecial (Mar 21, 2008)

southsoundtree said:


> This is a great thread.
> 
> I work in WA state. Here the state department of Licensing and Industries takes care of worker's comp. I pay an hourly rate based on the work. If we are doing tree work or using a chipper, I report that and pay about $2.25 per hour per employee regardless of salary. If we are landscaping its about $1. 25/ hour/ employee. The employee pays a few cents per hour as their contribution.
> 
> ...



Yep, Washington is a monopolistic state like Ohio. Never knew it was by hour, that's an interesting concept that doesn't penalize you for paying higher wages for good workers. 
About IL: Assigned risk rate is 31.46%, minimum premium is $1000 effective 1/1/08.


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## cjnspecial (Mar 21, 2008)

BTW. The rates above are all for class code 0106. That is the code used for arborist, ROW work using bucket trucks and tree removal on developed sites. Logging accounts are a whole other animal.


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## corndogg (Mar 24, 2008)

Thanks cjn. Again, very helpful. Nice of you to give your time to help educate. That's the best part of knowing something, telling someone else. Now I only wish I knew something!


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## NORTREE (Mar 26, 2008)

How about Vermont and New York? I am currently with Liberty Mutual but they claim NYS won't allow their coverage when we cross over into NY and that I need a second comp policy with the NYS Insurance Fund????????


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## cjnspecial (Mar 26, 2008)

NORTREE said:


> How about Vermont and New York? I am currently with Liberty Mutual but they claim NYS won't allow their coverage when we cross over into NY and that I need a second comp policy with the NYS Insurance Fund????????



Here's the deal...VT does cover your VT employees(Not employees you hire out of state) while working outside the state but New York's laws might require you to have a New York specific policy. NY had some changes late last year and they are still "reviewing" them so better be safe and call the Bureau of Compliance at (518) 486-6307. Try to get them to send you the guidelines in writing to cover your arse. 
http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullsection.cfm?Title=21&Chapter=009&Section=00619
http://www.wcb.state.ny.us/content/main/Small_Business/outOfStateEmp_compLaw.jsp

Seriously, talk to your agent about adding New York as a covered state because Liberty Mutual DOES write comp in New York and New York IS a competitive market(meaning you can get insurance from various companies). HOWEVER, if your policy with Liberty Mutual is is an assigned risk policy or it doesn't meet their underwriting guidelines, they may decline to cover out of state employees, operations, etc.

Almost forgot...VT's assigned risk rate is 25.64% with a minimum premium of $850.


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 8, 2008)

How about a NC list?


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## TheArborist (Apr 14, 2008)

*workman's comp*

any info on north carolina?


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## wireedm (Apr 14, 2008)

+1 on NC. THANKS for lending us your W.C. wisdom!

We were just recently audited by our W.C. carrier. We have (3) of our (12) employees listed as clerical, but the lady said that since one of the employees' office was on the shop floor he couldn't be listed as clerical. He is the shop operations manager with an enclosed office.........she didn't even go out and look at it! He never turns any handles on a machine!

Is there any recourse?


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## cjnspecial (Apr 27, 2008)

North Carolina Assigned Risk Rates for a tree trimming/pruning/removal business: 43.87% $850 minimum premium

http://www.ncrb.org/ncrb/WorkersCompensation/Agent/tabid/93/ItemId/198/Default.aspx


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## rbtree (Apr 27, 2008)

cjnspecial said:


> Yep, Washington is a monopolistic state like Ohio. Never knew it was by hour, that's an interesting concept that doesn't penalize you for paying higher wages for good workers.
> About IL: Assigned risk rate is 31.46%, minimum premium is $1000 effective 1/1/08.



Yep, for a state run system, it is mighty good. Well, that is, since about 15 years ago, when they reclassified tree work--we are sort of linked in with road builders, or were. Now they call it tree removal and pruning but kept the same low rate. Back then the base rate was over $6.00 pr hour!! Now, it can go as low as 0.7 times the base rate of about 2.25, if you've had no claims. I also use the landscape rate for pruning jobs where we stay under 15 feet.

Last year, for 2 quarters, everyone got an appx 25% break, as the system was running a big profit, and they shared it with all employers. How's that for a government agency? Rare? Yep!!

Since I pay my help close to an average of $30 per hr, my rate is nice and low....


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## cjnspecial (Apr 27, 2008)

wireedm said:


> +1 on NC. THANKS for lending us your W.C. wisdom!
> 
> We were just recently audited by our W.C. carrier. We have (3) of our (12) employees listed as clerical, but the lady said that since one of the employees' office was on the shop floor he couldn't be listed as clerical. He is the shop operations manager with an enclosed office.........she didn't even go out and look at it! He never turns any handles on a machine!
> 
> Is there any recourse?




Here's the deal on clerical workers: They cannot be exposed to any of the operative hazards of the business and have to be separated from all other work areas by floors, walls, pratitions or other physical barriers. In other words, he has to work in a physically separate office only. If he meets the qualifications, send your insurance company and agent a written explanation of his job duties/work area and invite them to come out if needed. If he doesn't meet the qualifications, pay up or stick him in an office. 
It's not an uncommon situation, just review it with your agent before sending. Also, check your PM's.


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## bobarama (Jun 2, 2008)

*Florida?*

I just started up a stump grinding business in central Florida. I have formed an LLC with 3 partners, myself and 2 sons. All of us will work, can we opt out of comp? Thanks for your input!


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## RoyalTree (Jun 4, 2008)

What about a list for florida?


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