# Are these prices right



## STLfirewood (Jan 12, 2009)

I'm going to log a small piece of land (3 acres) There is a lot of white oak. I was told a lot of the trees would make stay bolt logs. The mill said they are paying $1 a bft for bolts. They said they had to be 12" on the small end. Also I have been told prices at the mills around here are ranging from $175 a thousand to $240 a thousand for saw logs. Does this sound correct? I was also told when scaling bolts they use the Doyle scale and when scaling saw logs they use the International scale. Just wanting to cover my bases before I start dropping trees.

Thanks Scott


----------



## Bushler (Jan 13, 2009)

$250/M logging white oak sounds like a loser. Is that price delivered to the mill?


----------



## STLfirewood (Jan 13, 2009)

Sorry for the stupid quest what please explain 250/m. Yes the prices I said were delivered to the mill. The prices for saw logs can be any type of lumber.

Thanks Scott


----------



## 385XP (Jan 13, 2009)

That price sounds awful low to me. Especially if it is a delivered price. Id try another mill.


----------



## IndyIan (Jan 13, 2009)

What do you mean by "bolts"? Veneer logs? I guess for a $1 per board foot it would have to be veneer. 
I would make sure you know what scale they are using to pay you with, and do your calculations using that to see if its worth while cutting anything but veneer. 

Ian


----------



## joesawer (Jan 13, 2009)

MBF=1000 board feet

Contact who you plan to sell the logs to and get a price and spec sheet from them before you start cutting. You can waste a lot of money in a hurry by mis-merchandising logs. 
Hard wood logs are often scaled on several different grades. You can often greatly increase their value by bucking the logs around defects and size.


----------



## LEES WOODC (Jan 13, 2009)

Better let 'em grow at those prices unless the landowner absolutely needs to sell.


----------



## chevytaHOE5674 (Jan 13, 2009)

Depending on the tree quality present and how it is being harvested (clear cut, crop tree release, thin from below, etc). On that small of acreage with prices that low and the cost of trucking being up a bit right now you should do the math and even see if it is economically profitable to do the harvest.


----------



## STLfirewood (Jan 13, 2009)

IndyIan said:


> What do you mean by "bolts"? Veneer logs? I guess for a $1 per board foot it would have to be veneer.
> I would make sure you know what scale they are using to pay you with, and do your calculations using that to see if its worth while cutting anything but veneer.
> 
> Ian



Bolts are what they use to make whiskey and wine barrels from. It's a step below Veneer (that's what I've been told). I called around and this is the best price I can get $1 a board foot using the Doyle scale. They logging site is very easy to access and work with. Land owner wants them going or he's going to tun them to firewood. I'm planning on cutting the bolts out and using the rest for firewood. Thank you for all your help

Scott


----------



## treejunkie13 (Jan 14, 2009)

Bolts, interesting.
What we here refer to as Bolts is odd length cut outs, that the mills don't want. There are a few small guys that deal with Bolts. When the prices are up, it is well worth hauling in a load of Bolts (usually 2' - 7' length & 14" dia. & up.) makes for some extra fuel $money. Most common here are Black Cherry, Oak red or white, & sometimes in the winter months Hard Maple.
Currently the haul is not worth it, so they lay in the woods or on the landing to rot. The wasteful american way! I suppose if a fella could move a whole bunch with a short haul distance it may pay better than firewood. Right now here you would be lucky to get .50 cents a board ft. for Bolts.


----------



## Sethro (Jan 14, 2009)

They call them bolt logs because they can be any length(probably 10' and trim allowance). Call the buyer before you do any bucking. Generally bolt logs are the same as a cull log(firewood) but stave logs are way different because the log will be cut in 3' lengths before it's processed. Buck a bft. , I'd take it.


----------



## sILlogger (Jan 14, 2009)

stave logs are used for making barrels, typically out of white oak species, (true white oak "quercus alba" is preferred) due to the presence of tylocese(blocks the pores in the wood and the barrels won't leak-not present in red oak species)

stave logs need to be of pretty good quality, but dont' have to be terribly large, alot of them resemble railroad tie logs or just a touch bigger. 

a bolt is an 8' log.


----------



## Sethro (Jan 14, 2009)

> stave logs need to be of pretty good quality, but dont' have to be terribly large, alot of them resemble railroad tie logs or just a touch bigger.
> 
> a bolt is an 8' log.



This shows how the the markets very . Around here a stave log (White Oak) is a 3 clear faces butt log with no grain twist or snow drift and nothing under 10" at the scale end


----------



## sILlogger (Jan 14, 2009)

John Dolmar said:


> This shows how the the markets very . Around here a stave log (White Oak) is a 3 clear faces butt log with no grain twist or snow drift and nothing under 10" at the scale end



i didnt' mean railroad tie quality...i meant size. they still need to be pretty clear...it definitely doesn't have to be a butt log. where do u send your good butt logs too (white oak)


----------



## STLfirewood (Jan 14, 2009)

Sorry guys I was spelling it wrong when I said Stay bolt. It is Stave. SI your relatively close is that about the market where you are also. I was under the assumption that they had to be but logs. Your saying they don't? The mill I'm going to take these to only takes then down to 12". Thanks for the info.

Scott


----------



## sILlogger (Jan 14, 2009)

STLfirewood said:


> Sorry guys I was spelling it wrong when I said Stay bolt. It is Stave. SI your relatively close is that about the market where you are also. I was under the assumption that they had to be but logs. Your saying they don't? The mill I'm going to take these to only takes then down to 12". Thanks for the info.
> 
> Scott



Are they going to Perryville Stave Company?

ive cut alot of stave logs that were not from the butt log. send a veneer log or a bigger grade log off of the butt and then take a stake log as a second but if it is clear enough.

talk to the mill and see if they require butt logs or if they will take clear second cuts

around here:
pallet logs are going for 180-200/mbdft

long logs for construction timbers are going for about $250/mbdft (prolly a local market, i don't know if that is a market in missouri)

look into angelbeck tie company(i think that is the name) they were buying tie logs for $270/mbdft and they were picking them up. 

unless it is good red oak it is hard to get a good price out of it for grade timber.


----------



## STLfirewood (Jan 15, 2009)

sILlogger said:


> Are they going to Perryville Stave Company?
> 
> ive cut alot of stave logs that were not from the butt log. send a veneer log or a bigger grade log off of the butt and then take a stake log as a second but if it is clear enough.
> 
> ...



No they are going to a mill in Cuba MO. I heard you could get $270 for good tie logs. I have a mill kind of close that I am going to call and see what they will give. Thanks again.

Scott


----------



## windthrown (Jan 15, 2009)

Here is a web site with last fall's MO statewide log prices. Seems to vary a lot out there. They list veneer, stave and saw logs. 

http://agebb.missouri.edu/mkt/timber/bull2v.htm

They also have prices listed by region here: 

http://agebb.missouri.edu/mkt/timber/

MBF is one thousand board feet. One board foot is one foot by one foot by one inch thick.


----------



## STLfirewood (Jan 25, 2009)

I cut and hauled a little over 2k feet of white oak this week. I still have 7-800 more to go. I know that's not a lot of production but everything was hauled with a skid steer and a dump trailer to the mill. We also took 8 2/3 cords of wood from the tops and the saws logs after the stave cut. The trees aren't that big that I'm cutting. If the weather holds out I'll get more this week. That's for the help


Scott


----------



## tlandrum (Feb 5, 2009)

i have been getting 1.60-1.80 bdft for good staves,3bdft and up for vaneer 350 per thousand on ties. market sucks right now


----------

