# modifying geckos



## imagineero (Apr 11, 2013)

Just thought I'd post this up for anyone who might be in a similar situation to me.

I've been climbing on dinosaur spurs the last few years; some old buckingham steel gaffs. They really have been on their last legs for some time, rattling and falling apart. I've sharpened the spurs too many times and they now need major reprofiling because they're so thick. I really wanted to get some bashlin aluminums with caddy pads, but nobody seems to sell them in aus. I was in a climbing shop couple weeks back and they had the geckos on the wall so I tried them on and they felt pretty comfortable. They had the carbon fibre ones, but you cant adjust the length on them and they only had the mediums which were way too short (im 6'3) so I ended up getting the aluminums which turned out later to be a good thing as you'll find out. 

When I got them on and climbed a tree I knew immediately I'd made a bad choice. I got them with the long gaffs, and the set is amazing. They're very thin and sharp, and set great even on dead trees and very hard trees with thin bark, but something about the spurs themselves was all wrong. My old buckinghams have the uprights canted back at an angle, so the whole spur is pointing towards the tree, and the pad is mostly around the front. When you're gaffed in, the angle causes the spur itself to put weight towards your leg, so the pad pushes lightly on the front of your leg. 

The geckos are completely different. They are much more 'upright', no tilt. for some reason I can't understand, the pad is half around the front of your leg, and half around the side. The gaff is a little offset, so that when you're gaffed in, the spurs are pressing on the inside of your calves, trying to bow your leg outwards. It's a weird sensation, and I just couldn't get comfortable with it even after a couple weeks climbing with them every day. My legs were aching, after 15min or so in the tree. I could wear my old buckinghams a half day or more pretty easily before they even started getting uncomfortable. The geckos were also too short, even at the tallest setting.

Something had to be done. I started by lubricating my brain with magic learning juice. I was looking at the geckos, looking at the buckinghams, comparing the location of the pads and the angles of things. I took the pads off the buckinghams and figured if I could get them on the geckos I'd be set. Nope. Waaaaaaaay too short, and the geckos would need to be hacked with a grinder to fit into my old pads. 

7 beers later, I figured I could just drill holes anywhere in the fibreglass pads of the geckos and have them sit any way I wanted. So I located new holes so that the pad sits almost 2" further around to the front of my leg, about an inch higher, and the spur itself is now tilted at an angle similar to how my old buckinghams were. I climbed in them today and they're awesome! I was ready to sell these at a big loss because I couldn't take them back and there was no way I could keep climbing in them. If you're in a similar position, drill away.

First photo shows 2 new holes drilled. Take your time and get it right. I took the pads off and put the spurs on with the bottom strap done up and just moved the pads around until they felt right. I had my old buckingham on the other leg at the same time as a reference. Figured the approximate loacation then drilled the bottom one first, then screwed the spurs back together, put them on again and played with the angle until it felt right. Then marked and drilled that. 







Shows the modified spur on the right, and the unmodified on the left. The photo shows the right side pad sitting higher, but doesnt really show how much more 'around the front' the pad is as compared to the original. About 80% of the pad is now in the front. You can also see pretty clearly that the angle of the spur is much more tilted on the right. 

I was ready to ditch these spurs, but being able to drill the pads really does give you infinite possibilities. Im very happy with them now and would buy them again.

Shaun


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## Treepedo (Apr 11, 2013)

7 beers later lol
one beer, one scotch one bourbon, solution mb slighltly different.:msp_biggrin:
Can't be afraid of drillin a few holes
nice fix
Cheers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISmgOrhELXs


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## tramp bushler (Apr 11, 2013)

I could never get comfortable with Buckingham . I've had 3 sets over the past 30 years. Until I got sick of them hurting. 

I built new pads from the foam pads off a pair of Ulven cast Aluminium pads and 2 3 lb Folgers coffee cans.

I used a can opener to take the bottom out of the cans and tin snips to cut them length wise. Drilled a hole and bolted the cans to the adjustable top of the leg iron.
Used 1 carriage bolt to bolt the can on so it swiveled and glued the foam pad inside with Barge cement. 
They went from painful endurance to the 2 nd most comfortable spurs I ever put on. I could spend all day in them comfortablely .


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## ClimbMIT (Apr 11, 2013)

I would love to see the pics. I am opposite I am 5'6 and have very short legs even for my height. I have been climbing on Klein spurs with the caddy pads. Recently they started hurting and I am not sure why. When I first set it up I was fine for the past 6 months until recently. I had a set of Buck's that I got from the Pawn shop so I removed the top section and put it over the bottom section of the Klein's to see 1) if it would fit and 2) if they would be shorter. Well it was a bit tight for the Buck's over the Klein's but it worked. They are an inch shorter now with The caddy pads. Also the caddy pads are designed for the Buck's. They had about an inch of play when they were connected to my Klein's. So I thought this was the issue along with the total length of the spurs/pads being too long. I had a removal the other day and still not right. I have Carolina boots that I use that don't offer much support either perhaps this is my problem? Last week before I used the new set up I had a row of blisters on my right inner calf. I was in serious pain trying to finish up the job. Really sucked!


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## flushcut (Apr 11, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> I could never get comfortable with Buckingham . I've had 3 sets over the past 30 years. Until I got sick of them hurting.
> 
> I built new pads from the foam pads off a pair of Ulven cast Aluminium pads and 2 3 lb Folgers coffee cans.
> 
> ...



I will second the " you need to post pics" please.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 12, 2013)

Sorry guys, I did that Long before I learned how to turn a computer on. And long before digital camera's were the norm. I got the idea of the rotating pad from Guy German who lived in Sitka when he started getting in the Guinness Book of World Records for speed climbing. He designed the Toe spur. Which was just a Bashlin pole spur with a sliding shaft. He took the machine screws out of the adjustable top and shined and lubed the shaft up. He mounted aluminum plates to wrestling shoes on the ball of the foot and made his pads from fiberglass matt and resin that he would form to his calf. He set a good size carriage bolt into the fiberglass as he was building them on his legs. He said the fiberglass got real Hot on his calves as it was curing.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 12, 2013)

I do find that my calves are a lot more pain less at the end of a week when I wear my 16" Viberg 148s than when I wear my 105Ts which have 10" tops.


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## ClimbMIT (Apr 12, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> I do find that my calves are a lot more pain less at the end of a week when I wear my 16" Viberg 148s than when I wear my 105Ts which have 10" tops.



This may sound silly but what about socks? My Carolina's are 16" with my socks pulled up almost even with the top. I noticed where I had the blisters they were even with the folded stitching of my socks! Lol


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## tramp bushler (Apr 12, 2013)

I always wear a pair of liner socks and a pair of mid heavy weight that come to my knees. With the cast aluminium pads I have rubbed my leg raw . The L pads on my Kliens are amazingly comfortable. And they are made of some vinyl or nylon.


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## ClimbMIT (Apr 28, 2013)

Just realized my Carolina's are actually 14" which are right below at my knee joint base. If that makes sense with the boots on my shanks should be no longer than 15"! I have some freakishly short legs! Lol!!! Will be doing a mod soon.


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## imagineero (Apr 28, 2013)

You can do a lot to increase the comfort of most spurs just by putting them in a vice and bending them. If you find the inside of your instep gets sore first, bend it closed more, so the outside bears more weight. You can twist the shanks too, so the stirrup aligns better with your boots. Same story with the pads - most can be bent to the shape of your leg, increasing the comfort.

Shaun


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## ClimbMIT (Apr 28, 2013)

I was thinking of taking about an inch of with a sawzall and then drilling new holes for the screws. Kinda scared to bend them too much and not be able to get them just right. I am all ears though. Thanks


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## tramp bushler (Apr 28, 2013)

imagineero said:


> You can do a lot to increase the comfort of most spurs just by putting them in a vice and bending them. If you find the inside of your instep gets sore first, bend it closed more, so the outside bears more weight. You can twist the shanks too, so the stirrup aligns better with your boots. Same story with the pads - most can be bent to the shape of your leg, increasing the comfort.
> 
> Shaun



No offense ment Shaun ; but your Not supposed to bend spurs. In fact the sticker on my Bashlins says so. 
I think one of the reasons my Kline's are so comfortable is they have a short shaft.


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## ClimbMIT (Apr 28, 2013)

I have Klein's as well because of the short shaft. I have the shortest shaft I could find and now have to go shorter! Maybe I should keep this to myself :O


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## tramp bushler (Apr 28, 2013)

If my Bashlins are too long, I going to cut an inch or more off the top of the shaft and.the same length off the bottom of the adjustment shaft and drill and tap new holes. 
I kinda hit the jackpot getting the Bashlins. My sister gave them to me. All I need to get are the tree gaffs. They have pole gaffs on right now. 

I just would not bend them. Maybe an old steel pair of Buckingham's. They are one tough spur. But a fragile spur like the Geckos or any of the aluminium or titanium ones I myself wouldn't. But, I sometimes take 4' steps coming down a nice tree. And that's a lot of weight.


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## ClimbMIT (Apr 28, 2013)

Wow 4' steps you are smoking down! Do you compete? I see you live in Alaska that is one place I would love to visit. How tall are some of the trees that you climb? Also what species are the taller trees in your area?


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## tramp bushler (Apr 29, 2013)

Sitka spruce get the tallest. In southern southeast they can get over 200' tall. Central s.e. too. On the south central coast they get 100-125' tall. Tallest I've topped one at is around 120' where I nipped it off.; 
My time in the early- mid 80 s was around 30 seconds up 80' I always had too much caution to just dump out of a tree. Always needed my body to make a living . 
Compared to guys like Guy German or Brian Burtau I didn't Speed climb. But I would walk up a pole pretty steady.


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## ClimbMIT (Apr 29, 2013)

That's fast! Just a reminder for me that I have allot to improve on.


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## imagineero (Apr 29, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> No offense ment Shaun ; but your Not supposed to bend spurs. In fact the sticker on my Bashlins says so.
> I think one of the reasons my Kline's are so comfortable is they have a short shaft.



None taken mate. There's a warning sticker and book full of warnings about every piece of equipment telling us not to do all the thugs that we all do every day. But then, I'm sure you always have two points of attachment when cutting, never drop start a saw, or use it one handed, or not use the chain brake, or use your foot to push a log into the chipper etc etc ;-)

It's just a piece of metal, aluminium or steel. Yeah they tell you not to bend it, drill holes in it, weld it, or modify it in any way, welcome to the world of coffee cups with warning labels saying the contents may be hot 

I shouldn't even climb on spurs at all. I'm over the maximum weight limit. With harness, saw and spurs I'm weighing in somewhere around 270lbs.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 29, 2013)

That's the thing. With so many options its hard for a guy to get so he's really at home on the spurs. When tower loggin. The whole purpose is to kill trees. . Turn the world into a stump patch. :msp_biggrin: . So we wernt concerned with any of this tree husbandry stuff. The only way to get up a tree was with a belt and spurs. So we put in lots of time in them. 
Truthfully the only time I've climbed a tree with a climbing rope and saddle is just practicing/ playing.
Rope and saddle is really good in hardwoods or great big conifers that aren't grouse ladders. Get a practice tree and start running up and down it. It will get you away from the guys that kick their spurs into a tree . That takes too long and is hard on the feet, shins and spurs. And it used up lots of energy that is better used getting work done.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 29, 2013)

Ya Shaun, I know ; I'll change gaffs, sharpen them, change around the shin straps/ pads and shorten the shaft a bit but I'm chicken to mess around with the stirrup or lower shaft.


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## climb4fun (May 10, 2013)

never try to bend aluminum stress fractures occur, weakening the buggers. even with heating them (unless you damn near melt the aluminum). you can bend the lowers and any other part of a steel piece but youve gotta heat them up first, bend them and heat treat them afterward. aside of being a mechanic for 12 years for a shop that works predominantly on hot rods and dragsters, i ran a smithy out at my house for ####s and giggles, making knives. i use solid steel gaffs because i knew i could mod them. welded anchor plates onto the top, stiff foam from a weight lifting belt (material laminates on outer surfaces) for the outer part of the wrap and i got fancy with some memory foam for the inner cushion part of the wrap. 2" safety strap to secure them to my legs with a wing nut tightened clamp bar. i never get sore shins anymore. worked out better than i had hoped they would although they are a touch heavy, not enough to bother me though.


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## Grais (May 10, 2013)

> That takes too long and is hard on the feet, shins and spurs. And it used up lots of energy that is better used getting work done.


Says the guy talking about taking 4' steps down spars ?
That puts undue stress on every part of your body, starting at yoyur ankles all the way up to your shoulders and neck. Unless your comp climbing or just extremely macho, is just plain stupid. 
Especially if your actually trying to make a living with your body that is. 
I dont understand not roping out of trees now, its too easy we have too many techiniques for ropeing out of standing spars to not do it.
I understand the hotdog attitude, that is fine, and it has its place, but you cant turn around and go oh yeah dont do this other thing, its 'hard on your body', not and be taken seriously.


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## tramp bushler (May 10, 2013)

Learn how to read. 
You took my comment totally out of context. . 
Driving your gaffs into a tree is hard on feet, legs, spurs ect. . It wastes energy. You should be able to just walk up the tree, not Stomp your way up. I would say my average step down is in the 24" range. But I'm old and fat

So, to reinterate. A guy should be able to walk up and walk down. Stomping is a waste of effort and shows you need to either get used to belt and spur climbing and or adjust/ sharpen your spurs/ climbers.


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## TheJollyLogger (May 10, 2013)

Grais said:


> Says the guy talking about taking 4' steps down spars ?
> That puts undue stress on every part of your body, starting at yoyur ankles all the way up to your shoulders and neck. Unless your comp climbing or just extremely macho, is just plain stupid.
> Especially if your actually trying to make a living with your body that is.
> I dont understand not roping out of trees now, its too easy we have too many techiniques for ropeing out of standing spars to not do it.
> I understand the hotdog attitude, that is fine, and it has its place, but you cant turn around and go oh yeah dont do this other thing, its 'hard on your body', not and be taken seriously.



Pretty cocky to be giving tramp any advice on spur climbing. I may chat with him from time to time on rigging techniques, but I'm sure not gonna do anything bt listen with respect when it comes to spurrin em, and yeah, I Know a little bit about spur climbin, but he's spurred more than I've ever looked at. Jeff.


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## tramp bushler (May 10, 2013)

I don't have anything against repelling down out of a tree. Just that I don't have much reason to yet. And if your from Salmon Arm you should know about tall timber and high climbers and tower loggers. They have had some good timber shows there in the summer. 

I'm still trying to figure out how to pack 250' of repelling line up the tree.


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## tramp bushler (May 10, 2013)

I don't have anything against repelling down out of a tree. Just that I don't have much reason to yet. And if your from Salmon Arm you should know about tall timber and high climbers and tower loggers. They have had some good timber shows there in B.C. in the summer. 

I'm still trying to figure out how to pack 250' of repelling line up the tree.


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## TheJollyLogger (May 10, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> I don't have anything against repelling down out of a tree. Just that I don't have much reason to yet. And if your from Salmon Arm you should know about tall timber and high climbers and tower loggers. They have had some good timber shows there in B.C. in the summer.
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out how to pack 250' of repelling line up the tree.



Easy, just tie one end on and get heavier with every step up.


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## tramp bushler (May 11, 2013)

No no no. Unless you want to get ripped out of a big spruce or hemlock when you cut a 300 lb limb off, it falls 50' gets tangled in your line and comes to a screaming halt. Guys have had it happen when a limb grabbed their pass rope
That's why I keep my pass rope coiled on a piece of 3/8" plywood and clipped on the back of my saddle. I used to keep one coiled up and clipped to the back of my climbing belt.

I've heard that Delta and the SEALs repell out of helicopters with 6 or 7 mm line.


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## tramp bushler (May 11, 2013)

And wasn't BailOut designed for firefighters to repell off burning buildings


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## TheJollyLogger (May 11, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> No no no. Unless you want to get ripped out of a big spruce or hemlock when you cut a 300 lb limb off, it falls 50' gets tangled in your line and comes to a screaming halt. Guys have had it happen when a limb grabbed their pass rope
> That's why I keep my pass rope coiled on a piece of 3/8" plywood and clipped on the back of my saddle. I used to keep one coiled up and clipped to the back of my climbing belt.
> 
> I've heard that Delta and the SEALs repell out of helicopters with 6 or 7 mm line.



It's all body positioning and line management. Been doin it a long time, never been ripped out of a tree. Rope goes to opposite side ofthe tree, just gotta plan your climb.


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## tramp bushler (May 11, 2013)

But there are limbs all around the tree. ??


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## TheJollyLogger (May 12, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> But there are limbs all around the tree. ??



So you just move it, It just never has been an issue for me, just the way I was taught I guess. But you won't catch me in the tree without a lifeline.


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