# Would you root prune here?



## Jace (Apr 9, 2012)

One, both, or neither?


sorry bout the sideways pictures.

(Last picture shows canker area(Nectria I think...hope it recovers..)


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## sgreanbeans (Apr 9, 2012)

I think you would be safe taking that little one off.


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## ATH (Apr 9, 2012)

The question you posed is "Would you root prune here?". If somehow that ended up being my tree, the answer is *"NO"*.

I'd replace the tree. It is not big enough to deserve the investment needed to try to help it limp along. Everything you see there are advantageous roots - the primary root collar is probably another 4-6" down (if not more). How are you going to correct that? It looks like the tree is already in a depression.

If that is not acceptable to the client, I'd prune it in 2 stages. I drew on one of your pictures to propose what I'd do. Red lines now then the blue lines in 2-3 years max. View attachment 232933


All that for probably about the cost of buying a new tree the same size that will be in better shape for decades to come. (still have to pay for removal (not much) and planting)

(and I'll bet you an interweb nickle that the little tree in the background of picture 5154 was planted the same way...)


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## Jace (Apr 10, 2012)

ATH said:


> The question you posed is "Would you root prune here?". If somehow that ended up being my tree, the answer is *"NO"*.
> 
> I'd replace the tree. It is not big enough to deserve the investment needed to try to help it limp along. Everything you see there are advantageous roots - the primary root collar is probably another 4-6" down (if not more). How are you going to correct that? It looks like the tree is already in a depression.
> 
> ...




ATH, if there has been other trees asside from the one above, planted improperly very early this spring, and the roots were not separated apart/"worked thru" very good(plastic containered), and possibly even too deep of planting, can they be pulled up after a little careful digging around, and be replanted properly? I mean, how late is too late after planting(to redo it), is it not mostly dependant upon being able to get them out without damage?
Is it possible to soak down the root zone real good a day or two, then try to pull straight up on the tree to get it out, as long as there no roots popping/breaking, and redo it....?

And what about trees planted even a yr ago....? 

Couldn't a guy, IF(big IF) he wanted to, air spade a younger tree out real good, pull it to rework the root area, and then replant it? Main thing to keep roots moist and undamaged right? (Not that its the best option, but it is an option right?)
Just throwing stuff out there to learn....


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## Jace (Apr 11, 2012)

Here is yet another tree. Photos are not very good, but as good as i could get. Should I prune back this root to a lateral, working my way back toward tha flare each year pruning one time(annuallly), and try to get there in 3 years??
Should I take the whole thing off in one shot next to the flare. Leave it?? Not sure what to do.
The leaves dont look so good on the lower canopy(smaller, slighlt wilted looking), but get bigger/better the higher up the tree they go. Also,the roots on this tree came in a plastic container, and were not untangled very well like they should have been, so Im not sure whats down there. It had been planted last year, late spring. What do ya think ATH? And...maybe u can draw me a line on this one(if hard to relay thru typing)...?

Its sort of a small root attached on the top, and bigger underneath...two grown together or something??? (adventicious mess from small container ?)


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## ATH (Apr 11, 2012)

First, I am not claiming to be some well-seasoned expert. I have been plaing with my airknife since 2006, so I am on a learning journey with you. Just sharing my thoughts - take them for what they are worth, mix them with other stuff you find and let us know what you come up with so we can all get better together!



Jace said:


> if there has been other trees asside from the one above, planted improperly very early this spring, and the roots were not separated apart/"worked thru" very good(plastic containered), and possibly even too deep of planting, can they be pulled up after a little careful digging around, and be replanted properly? I mean, how late is too late after planting(to redo it), is it not mostly dependant upon being able to get them out without damage?
> Is it possible to soak down the root zone real good a day or two, then try to pull straight up on the tree to get it out, as long as there no roots popping/breaking, and redo it....?



As for replanting the containerized trees from this spring:
Go for it! Have you seen Ed Gilman's stuff about cutting roots on containerized stock? Check out these two (basically say the same thing): Root pruning for switching containers (no reason the same wouldn't apply moving from container to ground - which is essentially what you are still doing - even though it is already in the ground) and Roots of change for the better. Basically, not only _could_ you do the transplant, I'd say that if they were just dropped in the ground you _should_ transplant to get a better job!

I'd feel comfortable doing the same with a tree planted last year. Longer than that??? I guess, some of those I consider "what is the alternative"? I'd discuss with the client what is wrong and the long-term realities of that, then say "I can replant your current tree...we will have to cut some roots to do that, which may kill the tree. The alternative is: we know the long-term consequences and that is just a dead tree that is bigger and more expensive to remove. IF this doesn't work, we can easily plant a new tree and make sure it is done right this time."



Jace said:


> ....Couldn't a guy, IF(big IF) he wanted to, air spade a younger tree out real good, pull it to rework the root area, and then replant it? Main thing to keep roots moist and undamaged right? (Not that its the best option, but it is an option right?)
> Just throwing stuff out there to learn....



Yeah...I think air excavation is a definate possibility for lifting trees. Several years ago I met a guy from Cleveland area who does it quite a bit - he actually talked abut moving a 40" maple bare-root (moved it within the same site - said it took a relatively small crane and he was able to do it for a fraction of the cost of traditional methods involving taking a huge slice of earth with).

I'd use soil moist, then cover the roots with wet burlap as you complete excavation of an area to keep the moisture on the roots.

In certain circumstances I do think that would be the best option. The reasons I would not do it for the tree you first pictured:
1) The cost of raising it is not too far off of the cost of replacing it.
2) There is significant trunk damage from the current roots that have to go, so you are putting good money after bad.
3) You still need to come back in a couple of years to get that other root off - meaning the tree is going to continue to be stressed and the job is going to continue to incur expense...which sounds good for you - but I always think that what is best for the client is best for me too.


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## ATH (Apr 11, 2012)

Not entirely sure what is going on with the second tree. Is the green line root? It looks like it has been incorporated (grafted....but roots shouldn't graft to stem tissue) into the stem.

I'd cut at the red line (probably need some careful work with a chisle to do that well) and leave it alone.

View attachment 233241


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## Jace (Apr 13, 2012)

ATH said:


> Not entirely sure what is going on with the second tree. *Is the green line root?* It looks like it has been incorporated (grafted....but roots shouldn't graft to stem tissue) into the stem.
> 
> I'd cut at the red line (probably need some careful work with a chisle to do that well) and leave it alone.
> 
> View attachment 233241




Not sure exactly what exactly is happening at the green line, I will check it out closer...
And cut at the red as U mentioned...thanks for the advice and also drawing the lines in for me. 


BTW, what exactly did U do concerning the CO2 attaching to your arborjet IV? And is it still working good? I read it here (post #4):
http://www.arboristsite.com/plant-health/136702.htm#post2258368


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## sweetjetskier (Apr 13, 2012)

Jace,

Are you a homeowner or a licensed arborist ?


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## Urban Forester (Apr 13, 2012)

ATH said:


> First, I am not claiming to be some well-seasoned expert.



You SHOULD claim to be "some well-seasoned expert". Your advice is top-notch... :msp_thumbup:


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## Jace (Apr 13, 2012)

sweetjetskier said:


> Jace,
> 
> Are you a homeowner or a licensed arborist ?



I'm a C.A., I know....probly lagging behind compared to most CA's in tree knowledge, but I am doing my best to learn and get better


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## ATH (Apr 13, 2012)

Jace said:


> BTW, what exactly did U do concerning the CO2 attaching to your arborjet IV? And is it still working good? I read it here (post #4):
> http://www.arboristsite.com/plant-health/136702.htm#post2258368


It is still working well - I used it a fair amount for ash tree injections last year and have another batch lined up for this year when the leaves come on.

I think I just deleted the pictures I had of it. I'll try to get another and PM it to you. Basically I replaced Arborjet's proprietary plug with a standard 1/4" male adapter ('normal' air hose end), and plug the CO2 bottle adapter into that. I like the constant pressure it gives - that is really the only advantage, but I think it helps. Still find that about 20% of the plugs go very slow or not at all, and I am not sure why.


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## treeseer (Feb 11, 2013)

t


Jace said:


> Here is yet another tree. Photos are not very good, but as good as i could get. Should I prune back this root to a lateral, working my way back toward tha flare each year pruning one time(annuallly), and try to get there in 3 years??
> Should I take the whole thing off in one shot next to the flare. Leave it?? Not sure what to do.
> The leaves dont look so good on the lower canopy(smaller, slighlt wilted looking), but get bigger/better the higher up the tree they go. Also,the roots on this tree came in a plastic container, and were not untangled very well like they should have been, so Im not sure whats down there. It had been planted last year, late spring. What do ya think ATH? And...maybe u can draw me a line on this one(if hard to relay thru typing)...?
> 
> Its sort of a small root attached on the top, and bigger underneath...two grown together or something??? (adventicious mess from small container ?)


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## stltreedr (Feb 12, 2013)

You only have a few options: Prune the roots, replace the tree, or do nothing. I would try the root prune, and if the tree doesn't recover you are no worse off. It has a better chance of surviving as a juvenile, anyway, and it doesn't look like it is big enough to damage anything if it can't support itself. I say give em hell and see what happens.


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