# Has anyone ever froze?



## MuniciPAL (Sep 17, 2009)

yesterday i was performing a tree removal of a massive elm in a city park and had ascended the tree by using a using a pole saw from our bucket truck to place my rope roughly 75 feet. i climbed out of the bucket no problem and even rigged a few smaller limbs out, but after lunch i froze and got anxious and came down to the ground. the tree is still standing and im gonna go back up to conquer my fear. 
that was the highest ive ever climbed and the biggest tree ive climbed.


has this ever happened to anyone in a tree? and what to do


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 17, 2009)

Years ago, I was rigging eucs on Catalina Island that where between 150' to 180' feet. My first day made me nervous, but after that I was looking forward to more. Just get back up and remind yourself that you may be doing bigger trees next time and get it done. You will be alright.
Jeff


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## Adkpk (Sep 17, 2009)

Oh ya! Of course getting used to heights is only for the "strong at heart" individual. Hanging on a rope at a great height is even worst. Add a chainsaw and you have yourself a catastrophic situation. If you don't freeze up every once and a while might mean your brain dead. 
But with practice you build confidence in the rope, get smart to the dangers of a chainsaw and you'll have less freeze ups. Of course knowledge tree health and weight come in handy. 

When these freeze ups happen I don't descend any more, I take a breather. Drink some water. Look around and try to enjoy the view or examine the tree a little. 

Another way to gain confidence in the tree is to study. I don't do jobs that require heavy rigging I am still looking around in the tree pruning. I study all aspects of arbor culture from the ISA study guide to my own personal library of plants books to here(AS). These guys can answer minute question one might have. Overall practice and knowledge will help you take the edge off.


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## clearance (Sep 17, 2009)

MuniciPAL said:


> yesterday i was performing a tree removal of a massive elm in a city park and had ascended the tree by using a using a pole saw from our bucket truck to place my rope roughly 75 feet. i climbed out of the bucket no problem and even rigged a few smaller limbs out, but after lunch i froze and got anxious and came down to the ground. the tree is still standing and im gonna go back up to conquer my fear.
> that was the highest ive ever climbed and the biggest tree ive climbed.
> 
> 
> has this ever happened to anyone in a tree? and what to do



If you were removing the tree why did you not have your spurs on?

When you are climbing with spurs, along with a steelcore lanyard you can feel pretty safe, I do. Stick in the spurs good, three point attachment at all times. Climb slow, cut slow, think about what you are doing, and don't look down very often.

I have never climbed spurless, I know I wouldn't feel safe doing it, after thousands of trees.


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## Rftreeman (Sep 17, 2009)

nope, never have, not saying I've never been nervous but you either have it or you don't, stick with the bucket, if it happened once it'll happen again, I know that sounds harsh but it is the truth......


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## lego1970 (Sep 17, 2009)

Yea, I've had a few panic attacks in a tree before. It's can play havoc on your ego, confidence, and mind, especially if you come down it in defeat. I normaly try to talk some confidence in myself. Like I remind myself that Elms are flexible strong trees and that Elm branches will crack, hinge over and slowly tear long before a limb will just snap off. I know I could never break apart the limb that I'm tied into on the ground while trying to get it thru the chipper, so why would I worry about hanging from it. Then, I'd look at my rope make sure all my rigging is good and reasure myself that nothing is gonna happen to me. If that doesn't work I normaly try to think about some hot chick, talk to the groundsman about some other subject, and when doing tree work alone I listen to music or talk radio with my headset. Likewise a good groundsman will notice when his climber is scared and try to help get his mind off the tree and restore some confidence in him. That normaly gets my mind off the fear. Good luck, don't sweat it.


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## Job Corps Tree (Sep 18, 2009)

*has anyone ever frose*

It will happend to everone ?? some will not admitt it But do not let it get you down . Just like someone else said give it time you will find you can become a better climber for it( don't push it to hard) I did and out lasted most of the ones that had more balls than brains


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## Rftreeman (Sep 18, 2009)

Job Corps Tree said:


> It will happend to everone ?? some will not admitt it


well I guess mine hasn't happened yet, at least not in the first 21 years.


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## wood4heat (Sep 18, 2009)

Sort of but not in a tree. I was diving with a guide in Costa Rica a year ago and had a panic attack that I can only describe as what claustrophobia must be like. The guide had found the area he wanted to dive and had set a buoy. We began following the line down into some murky water and I froze up. Never experienced anything like it but wanted to spit my regulator out and kick like hell for the surface. I just clamped down and followed the line, about 30' down the watered cleared and I was fine. It would seem it can happen to anyone at any time anywhere. Don't let it get to you just keep breathing until it passes.


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## MuniciPAL (Sep 18, 2009)

thanks guys for the words of encouragement. im finishing taking the top out on monday and i would imagine i will be blocking the wood down on tues. i dont want to push myself to hard to get the tree done, but the rush after the tree is done is what keeps me coming back for more. thanks for helping me rationalize this tree. ive not had any problems climbing prior to this tree. i think i may have built it up in my head too much.


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## ozzy42 (Sep 18, 2009)

I have done it a few times . Mostly on tress that did not look THATdead from the ground.

Only 2 or 3 that I came out of ,and did not go back up,as they did not meet the guidelines in question 4 below.


My advice is the same as a few others on here.
First ,calm yourself down .Take some slow deep breaths,and HONESTLY assess the situation.

Ask yourself the follwing questions,and answer them honestly:


Do I have the propper training to do this tree?

Do I have the propper equipment for this tree?

Do I have the propper ground support crew for this tree?

Can this tree withstand me ,my gear,and all the possible shock loading neccesary in it's removal?


If you answered no to any of the above,STOP.Something is missing in the equation and your fears are both rational ,and realistic.
If these 4 basic minimum qualifications can not be met ,then one has no business beeing in the tree.




If the answer was yes to all of the above, it is possble you are having anxiety from beeing out of the bucket that you have become comfortable in .
Didn't it take you awhile to feel safe and confident in the bucket?
The same thing will apply to beeing in the tree.
Keep calm,think every thing through and you will gain the same confidence in the tree.










P.S.Folded hands and closed eyes for a minute can go along ways toward guidence and protection.

Just my .02 worth


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## trimmmed (Sep 18, 2009)

Once when framing a house, we were finishing up the plywood getting ready to roof it and had a carpenter freeze solid up there. He was a big sob, about 6' 6" 320lbs, solid rock. We could not get him to move and it became obvious we were not gonna get him back down the planks and then down the ladder. We removed a skylight and after prying up his hands kinda shoveled him in the skylight hole. We were laughing at him at first, then got a little scared, then laughed again after he was in the house. He was truly frozen. At first he was just saying "get me down man, get me down man" in kind of a mantra, then he regressed to these strange noises coupled with heavy breathing. He was sweating bullets too. 

The next day we set him up framing in the first floor, he decided to walk across the joists without having the box plate nailed in after doing a poor job of toenailing those joists to begin with. Well, those joists laid flat and his big ass went down 1 story to the basement floor. That was also his last day, lol. Then he became a bouncer, which he was pretty damn good at.


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## boda65 (Sep 18, 2009)

trimmmed said:


> his big ass went down 1 story to the basement floor. That was also his last day, lol. Then he became a bouncer, which he was pretty damn good at.



Sounds like he became a bouncer that day Or did he just go thud?

I worked with a guy that froze like that on the roof of a motor home. One minute he was alright, next he could barely move and asked me to help him down. Poor guy was terribly embarassed and begged me not to tell anyone. That was back in the 80's and this is the first time I've told about it.


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## treemandan (Sep 18, 2009)

I don't know if I ever froze up because I always kept in mind to keep in mind. I did, however, a few times, come down either because I knew I couldn't handle it due to lack of experiance, I was over tired or I realized I wanted a crane.
I guess 75 feet is when you start getting up there. In comparison you could walk 75 feet and it would seem short. Climbing 75 takes , well, you know now.
Keep in mind that you are capable enough to remain is safety and won't allow yourself to do the wrong thing. If it takes longer to move because you have to think it through that is Ok. Thinking it through is what to do.
Look for good TIP's and also some back-up TIPs, that way you will have options. Look at having options rather than just a chance. One step at a time . If a man is able to dig a hole in the ground I guess he has enough sense to climb a tree.
Saw handling kinda makes it that much tougher.


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## trimmmed (Sep 18, 2009)

boda65 said:


> Sounds like he became a bouncer that day Or did he just go thud?
> 
> I worked with a guy that froze like that on the roof of a motor home. One minute he was alright, next he could barely move and asked me to help him down. Poor guy was terribly embarassed and begged me not to tell anyone. That was back in the 80's and this is the first time I've told about it.



He made a thud going in through the skylight, it was an upper room so he only had to fall about 3 feet to hit the floor. I didn't get to see him fall through the joists although I heard the boards slap, but I am sure made more than a thud when he hit the basement floor. He was lucky as the slab was not in yet.


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## outofmytree (Sep 19, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> I have done it a few times . Mostly on tress that did not look THATdead from the ground.
> 
> Only 2 or 3 that I came out of ,and did not go back up,as they did not meet the guidelines in question 4 below.
> 
> ...



This is first class advice. 

I would talk it over with your boss. Explain you froze but that you want to get past the fear. Then go as slow as you need to in order to complete the job provided you answered yes to all 4 of Ozzys questions. 
 
On a personal note, I have never frozen in a tree. But then I was climbing trees before I went to school, just like all the kids I grew up with. I have felt anxious on many occasions and often with good cause. Just take it nice and slow, double check your TIP's and connections and cut baby pieces. Either your boss will appreciate you working through it or he isnt worth working for. 

Enjoy the view brother.


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## ozzy42 (Sep 19, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> This is first class advice.
> 
> Just take it nice and slow, double check your TIP's and connections and cut baby pieces. Either your boss will appreciate you working through it or he isnt worth working for.
> 
> Enjoy the view brother.



Very good advise as well.

Always good to double check everything.You can't UN CUT something.


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## Dadatwins (Sep 19, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> Always good to double check everything.You can't UN CUT something.


Ain't that the truth!


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## jar1zx (Sep 25, 2009)

I remember 2 times i froze. Once was back in 2000. a take down on a big oak right after an ice storm. got up round 60 feet up. ten to 15 foot past crotch..and seen the trunks round 8 inch's diameter were all cut half way. was four.. all were cut half way into. to get tree down safely i would have had to climb past the cuts, and roped off them. i got a weird feeling right when i got up there and then seen that crap. I came right down called owner told them 2 get some 1 else n walked away. was like 27 to 30 feet past point of where they were cut half way into. I mean tree was real close to 90 foot tall. 

Other time was in a sweet gum that was topped 43 foot...when i say topped they just cut trunk there left no limbs.
i get up there seen a 5 foot hole where it had rotted down and the new limbs had like 2 to 3..4 inches of cambium (out side layer of tree hope i spelled that right) they had grown out of. guess they topped it years in the past because the limbs were big and went far out over house. here yet again i would have had to climb out on the limbs and rope them down. i froze up for 5 mins came down then left


on that 1st tree owner did not tell me he had already had some hack in the tree. but later on i learned lots of tree workers turned that one down


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## ozzy42 (Sep 25, 2009)

jar1zx said:


> I remember 2 times i froze. Once was back in 2000. a take down on a big oak right after an ice storm. got up round 60 feet up. ten to 15 foot past crotch..and seen the trunks round 8 inch's diameter were all cut half way. was four.. all were cut half way into. to get tree down safely i would have had to climb past the cuts, and roped off them. i got a weird feeling right when i got up there and then seen that crap. I came right down called owner told them 2 get some 1 else n walked away. was like 27 to 30 feet past point of where they were cut half way into. I mean tree was real close to 90 foot tall.
> 
> Other time was in a sweet gum that was topped 43 foot...when i say topped they just cut trunk there left no limbs.
> i get up there seen a 5 foot hole where it had rotted down and the new limbs had like 2 to 3..4 inches of cambium (out side layer of tree hope i spelled that right) they had grown out of. guess they topped it years in the past because the limbs were big and went far out over house. here yet again i would have had to climb out on the limbs and rope them down. i froze up for 5 mins came down then left
> ...





Smart to walk away from those 2.
They don't pass question #4 on the stink test.






ozzy42 said:


> Can this tree withstand me ,my gear,and all the possible shock loading neccesary in it's removal?


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## fishercat (Sep 26, 2009)

*i have a couple of times.*

it was kind of a gut feeling thing like the tree was not safe.kind of weird.

almost the same feeling i had a second before the front wheel of my motorcycle went out from under me on the I-75 to 110 exit ramp in Michigan.


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## MuniciPAL (Sep 26, 2009)

my career as a municipal arborist is now over just shy of 2 years in the trade. i was not allowed to retry the elm that i came out of and now need a doctors note in order to keep my job. i had one bad day at work in 2 years and now my mental state is in question. the tree in my opinion was so far out of my realm of skill its not even funny(ssm heritage tree), but ive been given no further chance to get the tree down. not only is this attacking me personally but its also attacked my future industry success, MY BOSS IS PISSED i couldnt finish the tree. i now need a new job as a climber/operator, but my past will always follow me and i know my reference will be skewed.
IMO the doctors note is just to prevent backlash from the union regarding my termination. the management knows as well as i do that no doctor will risk his practice giving a note to a tree climber.


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## outofmytree (Sep 26, 2009)

MuniciPAL said:


> my career as a municipal arborist is now over just shy of 2 years in the trade. i was not allowed to retry the elm that i came out of and now need a doctors note in order to keep my job. i had one bad day at work in 2 years and now my mental state is in question. the tree in my opinion was so far out of my realm of skill its not even funny(ssm heritage tree), but ive been given no further chance to get the tree down. not only is this attacking me personally but its also attacked my future industry success, MY BOSS IS PISSED i couldnt finish the tree. i now need a new job as a climber/operator, but my past will always follow me and i know my reference will be skewed.
> IMO the doctors note is just to prevent backlash from the union regarding my termination. the management knows as well as i do that no doctor will risk his practice giving a note to a tree climber.




This may sound trite but your life is worth more than your bosses displeasure. I would NEVER force any of my crew to do work they genuinely could not do for whatever reason. I have no idea what your legal recourse is where you live, but over here employees have the right to refuse to do work for which they are either unqualified or that they feel is unsafe. 

I stand behind what I said earlier in this thread, if your boss is unwilling to cut you some slack when you hit the wall, then you need another boss.

Good luck mate.


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## lego1970 (Sep 26, 2009)

Who do you work for? If your Union, asked to be transferred to another crew. You may loose rank but that may be a good thing. It might give you more time to adjust and get your confidence back. If not as mentioned above get an Attorney. It's not like you weren't willing to give it another try.


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## outofmytree (Sep 26, 2009)

fishercat said:


> it was kind of a gut feeling thing like the tree was not safe.kind of weird.
> 
> almost the same feeling i had a second before the front wheel of my motorcycle went out from under me on the I-75 to 110 exit ramp in Michigan.



Obviously you lived, which is great given the possibilities when you lose the front. Is this story worth telling?


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## rahtreelimbs (Sep 26, 2009)

I think I would look for another job. Your boss sounds he cares for for his bottom dollar than his employees. Take this as a learning experience and be damned if someone tells you different. We all get nervous............that is what can keep you alive..........complacentcy will kill you!!!


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## Dadatwins (Sep 26, 2009)

MuniciPAL said:


> yesterday i was performing a tree removal of a massive elm in a city park and had ascended the tree by using a using a pole saw from our bucket truck to place my rope roughly 75 feet. i climbed out of the bucket no problem and even rigged a few smaller limbs out, but after lunch i froze and got anxious and came down to the ground. the tree is still standing and im gonna go back up to conquer my fear.
> that was the highest ive ever climbed and the biggest tree ive climbed.
> 
> 
> has this ever happened to anyone in a tree? and what to do





MuniciPAL said:


> thanks guys for the words of encouragement. im finishing taking the top out on monday and i would imagine i will be blocking the wood down on tues. i dont want to push myself to hard to get the tree done, but the rush after the tree is done is what keeps me coming back for more. thanks for helping me rationalize this tree. ive not had any problems climbing prior to this tree. i think i may have built it up in my head too much.





MuniciPAL said:


> my career as a municipal arborist is now over just shy of 2 years in the trade. i was not allowed to retry the elm that i came out of and now need a doctors note in order to keep my job. i had one bad day at work in 2 years and now my mental state is in question. the tree in my opinion was so far out of my realm of skill its not even funny(ssm heritage tree), but ive been given no further chance to get the tree down. not only is this attacking me personally but its also attacked my future industry success, MY BOSS IS PISSED i couldnt finish the tree. i now need a new job as a climber/operator, but my past will always follow me and i know my reference will be skewed.
> IMO the doctors note is just to prevent backlash from the union regarding my termination. the management knows as well as i do that no doctor will risk his practice giving a note to a tree climber.



I am confused, you said you froze in a tree, then said you were able to get the top out the next day, now you say you were fired for not doing the job? Is it a situation that your boss wanted the job done quicker than you were able?


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## capetrees (Sep 26, 2009)

I've been thinking of this thread for a while now trying to remember if I had ever froze in the tree ever and can say no, not ever. I feel 100% comfortable in the trees. Always have and that's even as a kid & adult without ropes or harnesses. I always know my surroundings and without ropes, I always try to have three points of contact to keep balance. If I feel uncomfortable it because someone else is screwing up my work area, like someone yanking too hard on a rigging line or getting tangled in the rigging line when a branch drops. Ladders scare me but not once I'm in the tree.


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## yooper (Sep 26, 2009)

MuniciPAL said:


> my career as a municipal arborist is now over just shy of 2 years in the trade. i was not allowed to retry the elm that i came out of and now need a doctors note in order to keep my job. i had one bad day at work in 2 years and now my mental state is in question. the tree in my opinion was so far out of my realm of skill its not even funny(ssm heritage tree), but ive been given no further chance to get the tree down. not only is this attacking me personally but its also attacked my future industry success, MY BOSS IS PISSED i couldnt finish the tree. i now need a new job as a climber/operator, but my past will always follow me and i know my reference will be skewed.
> IMO the doctors note is just to prevent backlash from the union regarding my termination. the management knows as well as i do that no doctor will risk his practice giving a note to a tree climber.



wish I could scoot over to the east end take the tree down and cram it all up yer bosses Ass, you did good not going any farther if you thought it was beyond yer capability, or unsafe for you #1 we all only live one time, and after that well ya know. 
You need to go to your union and make a grievance! make it loud and clear and take a stand. call an attorney if need be! take photos befor they take the tree down if ya can, especially if they try to bring any kind of equipment in there to do so. act fast befor it is to late. 
I my self don't pass on to many jobs owning my own tree service but I have run into a couple trees that where just not safe, and said no way. glad I had the decision to do so without getting the shoe! 
good luck! Take a stand, stand up for yer self! Be good


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## Bermie (Sep 27, 2009)

I've been union, in another line of work, was a shop steward for a while and have been on the other side of the fence too.

This sounds like a case of work complexity / sufficient training.
For what you were asked to do...the largest tree you had ever been in...did you have sufficient formal training and /or sufficient on the job experience working on increasingly larger and more complex trees to accomplish this job SAFELY? 

Someone needs to prove the answer is either yes or no, if your boss can PROVE yes, then you are SOL, if you can PROVE no, then the boss is going to have to back down.

Gather all the evidence, documentation, collegues statements, certificates, pictures whatever you can and go see your shop steward.

I've been on both sides of the union fence...good luck!

Has the boss ever been a climber? 

I too have had my stinky pants moments in a tree...BUT...knowing that I have had the training, and the tree is sound...a few moments of talking sternly to myself and a quick prayer gets me over the hump. Also I find on a takedown, it all goes so much better once the first few cuts are done and you are on your way back down.


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## chipmaker29 (Sep 27, 2009)

man...u did the right thing! screw ur "boss". u know ur own limitations & boundaries, not anyone else. being freaked out in a tree & continuing is a recipe for disaster. NO job is worth putting yourself that far out there on the edge. keep your head up and u will find sumthin else. whatever happens u made the right decision!


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## treemandan (Sep 27, 2009)

Jeez dude, I understand some guys get little upset if you decline a tree butyou can only do what you can do... safely and comfortably. Its a right of passage, any climber will tell you we all have been there. We all have balked at one time or another, its not like you aren't risking a whole lot.

Why don't you give us the phone number to your boss?


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 27, 2009)

:monkey:Sounds like someone don't like you!
Jeff


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 27, 2009)

Sometimes climbing out of nice stable work platform :censored:s me up to , It takes big :censored: to do work off the ground so even if you freeze sometimes your still ahead of most . My advice is to start in the morning by going all the way to the top and taking a minute to adjust then everything under you seems a little bit easier , my :censored: puckers at least once a week but that why we get paid the big bucks... and the ladies love us for it..


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 27, 2009)

Sounds like it too late for that.
Jeff


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 27, 2009)

MuniciPAL said:


> my career as a municipal arborist is now over just shy of 2 years in the trade. i was not allowed to retry the elm that i came out of and now need a doctors note in order to keep my job. i had one bad day at work in 2 years and now my mental state is in question. the tree in my opinion was so far out of my realm of skill its not even funny(ssm heritage tree), but ive been given no further chance to get the tree down. not only is this attacking me personally but its also attacked my future industry success, MY BOSS IS PISSED i couldnt finish the tree. i now need a new job as a climber/operator, but my past will always follow me and i know my reference will be skewed.
> IMO the doctors note is just to prevent backlash from the union regarding my termination. the management knows as well as i do that no doctor will risk his practice giving a note to a tree climber.


Why the :censored: is that :censored: off going to fire you because you got stuck ? That's sounds like this guys needs a boot in the mouth , and :censored: him for being an :censored: you can do better and maybe this should be a wake up call to seek other employment, don't ever allow someone to put you in a position that makes you feel uncomfortable and remember to be safe..


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## BC WetCoast (Sep 28, 2009)

MuniciPAL said:


> my career as a municipal arborist is now over just shy of 2 years in the trade. i was not allowed to retry the elm that i came out of and now need a doctors note in order to keep my job. i had one bad day at work in 2 years and now my mental state is in question. the tree in my opinion was so far out of my realm of skill its not even funny(ssm heritage tree), but ive been given no further chance to get the tree down. not only is this attacking me personally but its also attacked my future industry success, MY BOSS IS PISSED i couldnt finish the tree. i now need a new job as a climber/operator, but my past will always follow me and i know my reference will be skewed.
> IMO the doctors note is just to prevent backlash from the union regarding my termination. the management knows as well as i do that no doctor will risk his practice giving a note to a tree climber.



Others have recommended getting a lawyer, you don't need a lawyer, you belong to a municipal union in Canada. You've got more power than God. Get the union to hire the lawyer, that's their job and why you pay your dues. (Unless there is more to this story that you aren't telling us - like you have 2 written warnings). Now it may be possible that you will lose your position as a climber and may be transfered to another job category, but getting fired for this - I don't see it as you have presented it. I worked as a supervisor in a municipality in Canada - firing a unionized worker was a minimum 4 step procedure and would take several months. We had workers on compensation due to workplace injury that we suspected was fraudulent. We had a Private Eye videotape them doing things they shouldn't have been able to do with their injury and yet we still weren't able to fire him outright. The grievances took us months to work through and at the end of the day, it was easier and less time consuming of supervisor's time (aka cheaper) to just bring him back to work.

As far as your past following you, remember that government employers are paranoid about the privacy provisions of the Charter of Rights and when asked for a reference will only confirm that an employee worked for a specific period. So getting another job shouldn't be a problem except for the fact you were a civic employee and the generalized opinion in the private sector that all civic employees are slow and lazy. That probably doesn't apply to you, but it is a generally held opinion you will have to work through in an interview process.


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## ozzy42 (Sep 29, 2009)

For them to fire the guy was a poor choice,and he will be better off without working for a CO like that.















BC WetCoast said:


> Others have recommended getting a lawyer, you don't need a lawyer, you belong to a municipal union in Canada. You've got more power than God. Get the union to hire the lawyer, that's their job and why you pay your dues. (Unless there is more to this story that you aren't telling us - like you have 2 written warnings). Now it may be possible that you will lose your position as a climber and may be transfered to another job category, but getting fired for this - I don't see it as you have presented it. I worked as a supervisor in a municipality in Canada - firing a unionized worker was a minimum 4 step procedure and would take several months. We had workers on compensation due to workplace injury that we suspected was fraudulent. We had a Private Eye videotape them doing things they shouldn't have been able to do with their injury and yet we still weren't able to fire him outright. The grievances took us months to work through and at the end of the day, it was easier and less time consuming of supervisor's time (aka cheaper) to just bring him back to work.





You however make a great statement about the problems with unions.

TOO MUCH POWER


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 29, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> For them to fire the guy was a poor choice,and he will be better off without working for a CO like that.
> Ah here we go with the trashing of the unions , they won't fire him as a matter of fact they will go to bat for him, often the management are not union members at all , lets not lose focus here...


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## Job Corps Tree (Sep 29, 2009)

That State of Mind is tough to work with, I back handed my Pole saw once dumb A44 thing to do but having a cut the back of my wrist my company was concerned about my state of mind when I cut my wrist . My Wife had to get nasty with them before they would back off about it a Month or more they went on and on about it.


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## MuniciPAL (Sep 29, 2009)

hey guys. im still around on the site....reading and whatnot....and appreciate all the very helpful words. as for the written warnings ive not even had time to accumulate a 2 written warnings. ive only been around for 10 months and have not had a hiccup in the past. the biggest tree ive done is roughly 60 feet, so i asked if i could do a 70 and an 80 before attempting a 90 and was told the tree i was tasked with that day was something that was doable with 12 months experience. i said no other apprentice would be given a tree like that and expected to perform and due to the way my contract is worded im not a utility arbo apprentice, im a "tree climber". the language pertaining to the issue is vague and simply states someone that climbs trees for pruning and removal.


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## Mike Van (Sep 30, 2009)

Have you asked the union you paid dues to for help?


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## MuniciPAL (Sep 30, 2009)

yes i have asked for help from the union, but we examined the contracts language and it states im not an apprentice or a trainee, thus the discretion is on my boss as to who he wants to send up. for the record i was getting hours toward my apprenticeship, but until the next negotiations the foresters wont be getting trade status........so i cant argue the fact that im an apprentice. 
the union is now trying to get me a job in another dept. this is a temporary solution because i am researching new companies to apply to. the only problem is that alot of companies do tree work around lines but dont have the signing authority to sign off my hours that i worked for them.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 30, 2009)

You are an apprentice, well than you need to talk to the president or your B.A and explain the situation and let them asess your responsiblities


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## stihlhere (Sep 30, 2009)

the only time i ever froze up i was 20 years old and my boss asked me to climb an 80' silo and climb another 8' onto a pipe and scoot out between 2 silos and work on a diverter valve no harness. I was scared of hights when i went up and froze up setting on a 8" pipe 88' in the air nothing between me and the ground but air. I set there and thought I needed the job so I had to get it done. Well i conquered my fear and finished up only to have him tell me he could not believe i done that he could not even get in a lift or a ladder aver 12' , and i could have been killed all because i wanted to do a good job and this jack leg could have cared less. 
now i climb with spurs on removals and i dont on trim jobs and i try to do all limb walking with out spurs. dont get killed for job or money, that said i stihl some times worry about swinging back into a tree or sharp limb and i admit it some times slows me down. but my usual problem is becoming to complacent and enjoying my self to much and working to fast. *DONT DO ANY THING YOUR NOT COMFORTABLE WITH BUT ALSO REMEMBER TO ONLY LOOK AT REAL RISK AND NOT IMAGINE THINGS THAT ARE BEYOND YOUR CONTROL *


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