# need some help on tree topping



## TROYERLANDSCAPE (Sep 17, 2009)

I have an customer that want's some tall spruce tree's topped. they want the brought down about 30' instead 12-15'. which I don't recommend it, but they want it done. The question is how can tell them not too?


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## Dadatwins (Sep 17, 2009)

Welcome to site. You can give them this brochure from the ISA which explains why you should not top trees. 
http://www.treesaregood.org/treecare/topping.aspx
You can only explain to a homeowner in so many terms why you should not do things to a tree, ultimately it is their tree and responsibility. You simply have to maintain yourself as a professional. I have walked away more than once in disagreement with a potential customer.


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## Adkpk (Sep 17, 2009)

There is an article on just the same matter. Anybody know where to find it. "Arborist News"? Or is on the ISA website. 

But basically what they say is, it's your reputation on the line if you go for the money. And in the long run your business will go further if you do what is right. Let someone else put their reputation at risk for disfiguring those trees. 

If your on here asking your not looking to be in the hack business.


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## treeslayer (Sep 17, 2009)

TROYERLANDSCAPE said:


> I have an customer that want's some tall spruce tree's topped. they want the brought down about 30' instead 12-15'. which I don't recommend it, but they want it done. The question is how can tell them not too?



THEY WILL DIE. guarantee it. 

gotta guarantee your work, right?


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 17, 2009)

I agree, Don't do it, educate them or walk away. You will feel good either way.
Jeff


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## Rftreeman (Sep 17, 2009)

tell them they will die, do it after they insist, go back after they die and get paid again.........


OR,

talk them in to removing them and maybe replacing them with something that doesn't mature so high...


one more thing, never guarantee what mother nature has control over, she will bit you in the butt..........


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## clearance (Sep 17, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> tell them they will die, do it after they insist, go back after they die and get paid again.........
> 
> 
> OR,
> ...



Good one, I agree.


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## Rftreeman (Sep 17, 2009)

clearance said:


> Good one, I agree.


thanks, I'm sure you know where I get the remove & replace with smaller from...yep transmission line row work....


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## clearance (Sep 17, 2009)

Yep, one sleazy useless utility hack to another. Why trim, let it burn, burn baby burn. Hazard trees around power, leave them alone, thats overtime for the linemen. Least thats what its like here. Not my problem, I let it all go.


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## Rftreeman (Sep 17, 2009)

clearance said:


> Yep, one sleazy useless utility hack to another. Why trim, let it burn, burn baby burn. Hazard trees around power, leave them alone, thats overtime for the linemen. Least thats what its like here. Not my problem, I let it all go.


aaahhh this take me back...


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## clearance (Sep 17, 2009)

Its really funny, and pathetic at the same time, the utility here (B.C. Hydro), sure talks a good talk, but they cannot get the work done, for some reason or other. I move, and the primary tap that runs through our place to the nieghbors is burning, cottonwood slash, above and touching the primary from time to time. And at many places on our road. I guess someone is getting a bonus somewhere. 

I no longer care, I used to, I used to put my heart into working for them, but why.


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## Adkpk (Sep 17, 2009)

clearance said:


> I no longer care, I used to, I used to put my heart into working for them, but why.



To save your soul. But if burning is what your into go for it. :monkey::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

Clearance do even like trees?


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## clearance (Sep 17, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> To save your soul. But if burning is what your into go for it. :monkey::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Clearance do even like trees?



I worked really hard to cut down as many dead trees as I could, so people would have continous power. The thought of some people, the older ones, the kids, without power in the dark and cold bothers me. 

But the utility has disapointed me, I lost in it on of thier guys, who didn't deserve it. I was suspended, had to get counseling. I learned that it was not my fault, I had done the best I could and that the mess is thier making, and responsiblity. Not mine. So, I let my resentments go, no hard feelings from me, I can't make them do anything, no point trying. 

I love trees, especially conifers, do I like dangerous trees around powerlines? No.


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## ozzy42 (Sep 18, 2009)

rftreeman said:


> tell them they will die, do it after they insist, go back after they die and get paid again.........
> 
> 
> Or,
> ...





clearance said:


> good one, i agree.




yep


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## BC WetCoast (Sep 19, 2009)

clearance said:


> Its really funny, and pathetic at the same time, the utility here (B.C. Hydro), sure talks a good talk, but they cannot get the work done, for some reason or other. I move, and the primary tap that runs through our place to the nieghbors is burning, cottonwood slash, above and touching the primary from time to time. And at many places on our road. I guess someone is getting a bonus somewhere.
> 
> I no longer care, I used to, I used to put my heart into working for them, but why.



Are you talking distribution lines (BC Hydro) or transmission (BC Transmission Corp)? I thought they both belonged to SERC and were fined if they had a tree caused shutdown?


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## outofmytree (Sep 19, 2009)

TROYERLANDSCAPE said:


> I have an customer that want's some tall spruce tree's topped. they want the brought down about 30' instead 12-15'. which I don't recommend it, but they want it done. The question is how can tell them not too?



Lot's of good advice here so let me just add my vote to the informal poll. Yes, it is worth walking away from clients who refuse sound advice. Your long term reputation has way more value than short term cash.


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## treeseer (Sep 19, 2009)

Lots of young trees like that can be reduced and look good (tho high mtc).

Spruces would send out a mess of leaders and low branches shaded out, then the pests will come.

The op said nothing about powerlines, where did that come from?

Jim, thanks for sharing the tale of recovering your sanity. nothing wrong with getting help seeing things as they are and not as we want them to be. hence my sig.


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## Rftreeman (Sep 19, 2009)

treeseer said:


> The op said nothing about powerlines, where did that come from?


it came from years of me telling people if they didn't like their trees being topped due to lines then maybe they could remove and replace them with a tree that matured at a shorter height so I made the suggestion to the op about remove and replace due to the fact that I'm sure the people wanted the spruce trees topped due to height then power line just got toss in there between clearance and me so I guess that's where it came from..........yep that's it.......


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## clearance (Sep 19, 2009)

BC WetCoast said:


> Are you talking distribution lines (BC Hydro) or transmission (BC Transmission Corp)? I thought they both belonged to SERC and were fined if they had a tree caused shutdown?



BC Hydro and BCTC are owned outright by the province, same dna. WTF is SERC?


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## BC WetCoast (Sep 20, 2009)

clearance said:


> BC Hydro and BCTC are owned outright by the province, same dna. WTF is SERC?



Sorry, I screwed up, it's NERC not SERC and is the North American Electrical Reliability Corporation. 

From their website:
O_ur mission is to ensure the reliability of the bulk power system in North America. To achieve that, we develop and *enforce* reliability standards; assess reliability annually via 10-year and seasonal forecasts; monitor the bulk power system; and educate, train, and certify industry personnel. NERC is a self-regulatory organization, subject to oversight by the U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission and governmental authorities in Canada_

www.nerc.com

The two operations may have the same DNA, but they don't have the same influence at budget time.


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## clearance (Sep 20, 2009)

BC WetCoast said:


> Sorry, I screwed up, it's NERC not SERC and is the North American Electrical Reliability Corporation.
> 
> From their website:
> O_ur mission is to ensure the reliability of the bulk power system in North America. To achieve that, we develop and *enforce* reliability standards; assess reliability annually via 10-year and seasonal forecasts; monitor the bulk power system; and educate, train, and certify industry personnel. NERC is a self-regulatory organization, subject to oversight by the U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission and governmental authorities in Canada_
> ...



Thanks there BC, I 'll look into it.


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## clearance (Sep 20, 2009)

NERC is not mandatory in BC, but they are trying. 
Long story short, we don't need any more studies, meetings, conslutants, stakeholders of any type, we need to be cutting down more trees. 
Thats all.


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## Adkpk (Sep 20, 2009)

clearance said:


> I love trees, especially conifers, do I like dangerous trees around powerlines? No.



Ok dude, just wanted to know. Glad to hear you do. Sometimes I wonder the way you post on this site. Thanks for the explanation.


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## clearance (Sep 20, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> Ok dude, just wanted to know. Glad to hear you do. Sometimes I wonder the way you post on this site. Thanks for the explanation.



Thats ok, I know, I sometimes rant about trees around powerlines, but I love trees and the bush.


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## Bearcreek (Sep 21, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> THEY WILL DIE. guarantee it.
> 
> gotta guarantee your work, right?



I don't work with spruces very much, but are you that sure they will die? I see pines and spruces in the woods when I backpack quite often that broke off many years ago in some storm and are doing fine now. They usually don't retain their normal shape but they are healthy. Enlighten me.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 21, 2009)

Slayer is right, He did not say they would die on that day. Enlightening coming I bet.
Jeff


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