# Rigging...rope or just drop?



## Bill Stradtman (Apr 11, 2015)

I watch a lot of guys climb online and I have a question for the experienced climbers. I've seen some guys be 60 to 80 ft up in a tree and choose to rope a limb down and some just notch and drop Or cut and chuck. If everything is clear and safe below in the landing area why rope. I know wind comes into play and not doing damage to the lawn or property but it those aren't a factor should I always be roping that high or if I see it safe is it okay to cut and chuck or notch and drop? I obviously take all things into consideration when I decide what I'm going to rope and what I'm not. I guess I just want to know I'm doing the right thing.


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 12, 2015)

Bill Stradtman said:


> I watch a lot of guys climb online and I have a question for the experienced climbers. I've seen some guys be 60 to 80 ft up in a tree and choose to rope a limb down and some just notch and drop Or cut and chuck. If everything is clear and safe below in the landing area why rope. I know wind comes into play and not doing damage to the lawn or property but it those aren't a factor should I always be roping that high or if I see it safe is it okay to cut and chuck or notch and drop? I obviously take all things into consideration when I decide what I'm going to rope and what I'm not. I guess I just want to know I'm doing the right thing.



You answered your own question,,,
Jeff


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## Pelorus (Apr 12, 2015)

"Keep It Simple, Stradtman". (William of Ockham, inventor of the modern Razor)


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## derwoodii (Apr 12, 2015)

even if clear below sometimes you need a rope to ensure the limbs get down as some tree species canopy s don't play nice hooking and snagging stuff you cut. just today i had to line pull a few oak tree limbs out of the canopy as no matter what i did they just snagged would not fall to ground.


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## Stihlmadd (Apr 12, 2015)

old rule of thumb " when in doubt- rope it out." wish I had listened to this jem a few more times.


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## Bill Stradtman (Apr 12, 2015)

What about when your blocking down a tree? I see guys rope small down small rounds and then drop a tall log 10 times the weight. I know about septic systems and anything else that could be damaged underground. I guess I'm just used to how Ive seen 1 guy do things for the last 15 years so I find myself questioning different methods. I'm sure there are reasons for every action but again I'm just trying to open up my mind and get a good grasp of doing the right thing.


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## simpleiowaguy (Apr 12, 2015)

Some people don't want their yards destroyed. I try to rope as much as possible..... I like to rope it big though.


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## acer-kid (Apr 12, 2015)

Sometimes a vertical (or near vertical) speed line works better than negative rigging chogs off a spar. Less shock loading (usually), and can minimize the risks associated with having a greener on your ropes. Leave a crash pad of brush to save the lawn and voila. Works great with TENEX Xring dead eye slings pre loaded on the speedline.


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## Bill Stradtman (Apr 14, 2015)

I've been taking info about speed line techniques in like a spounge. It looked like there were so many benefits from it So when I took down 3 pines two days ago and I tried it for the first time and I sent all my brush about 80 feet right to its destination and had a guy taking brush off as I sent it and a guy under the tree and it cut time at least in half. On the first tree i was roping every piece of brush because I was over the house. And it popped in my head, this is a good situation to try a speed line. I don't know why I don't see any guys around here doing this. Not only is it efficient and fun to do but I personally think it's a safer technique.


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## JRoland (Apr 14, 2015)

There are different techniques for every situation. Some of it also depends on the crew and climber as well. I try to take all the factors into consideration before doing anything with the tree and plan it out while on the ground. To a degree you can also use the trees where not as many hazards exist for practicing what to do when the hazards are there.


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## Jack Evans (May 10, 2015)

I've got to admit I love rigging all forms of it. Really liking speed lining at the min. When I first started I got it wrong a few times and it made the job a bit harder but now it works a treat. Generally use a double purchase to tighten the line and slacken it off. Even when customers say not to worry about the garden I still trend to rig stuff off, just don't like leaving divots.


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## jomoco (May 10, 2015)

You might enjoy this thread on speedlining Bill.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/fridays-speedline-removal.121497/




jomoco


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## Carburetorless (May 10, 2015)

Depends on the situation. Whatever makes the job safer, more efficient, possible, or makes the customer more happy.


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## TheJollyLogger (May 10, 2015)

Just always respect the side loading on a skinny spar.


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## Carburetorless (May 11, 2015)

Speaking of skinny spares.

Look at what this guy is climbing on. Maybe not that skinny at the base, but the way to top leans out and gets skinny on what looks like a tulip poplar, sort of looks risky to me.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/iqwJ3r1qFf4


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## ropensaddle (May 21, 2015)

Carburetorless said:


> Speaking of skinny spares.
> 
> Look at what this guy is climbing on. Maybe not that skinny at the base, but the way to top leans out and gets skinny on what looks like a tulip poplar, sort of looks risky to me.
> https://www.youtube.com/embed/iqwJ3r1qFf4
> ...


I think I would of took that at that bend static tied to tree behind with a tag added to prevent spar damage but I'm a bit poplar shy lol


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## ropensaddle (May 21, 2015)

If I'm removing I bomb if I can but if its a trim and there is exposed roots and the like I prefer to rope or speedline things


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## tree lopper (May 22, 2015)

It's first a question of safety and secondly a question of economics. I lower branches the fastest way that is safe for people and property. I'd be surprised at anyone who decided on a method using any other criteria.

Bombing branches down is fastest, lowering on a rope comes in second and ziplining is only possibly going to be considered if the property owner has a high value structure or lanscaping beneath the tree.


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## Carburetorless (May 22, 2015)

ropensaddle said:


> I think I would of took that at that bend static tied to tree behind with a tag added to prevent spar damage but I'm a bit poplar shy lol





ropensaddle said:


> If I'm removing I bomb if I can but if its a trim and there is exposed roots and the like I prefer to rope or speedline things





ropensaddle said:


> I think I would of took that at that bend static tied to tree behind with a tag added to prevent spar damage but I'm a bit poplar shy lol



No doubt, I've seen too many poplars spit all by themselves.


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## acer-kid (May 23, 2015)

Thats a video of randy working. He's a nut. I love 'em. I'm sure if there was any question as to the integrity of that tree.. He'd of went about it a different way. Tree work is part time for him, and he's become a talented tree worker. 
Why does everyone seem so Leary of the "dreaded" cottonwood? Working a poplar is a blast.


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## TheJollyLogger (May 23, 2015)

Yeah, they're a hoot.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/it-was-a-hell-of-a-ride.261576/


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## Carburetorless (May 23, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Thats a video of randy working. He's a nut. I love 'em. I'm sure if there was any question as to the integrity of that tree.. He'd of went about it a different way. Tree work is part time for him, and he's become a talented tree worker.
> Why does everyone seem so Leary of the "dreaded" cottonwood? Working a poplar is a blast.



We were talking about the Tulip Poplar, Tulip Tree, Yellow Poplar, it's a whole different animal.


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## ropensaddle (May 24, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Thats a video of randy working. He's a nut. I love 'em. I'm sure if there was any question as to the integrity of that tree.. He'd of went about it a different way. Tree work is part time for him, and he's become a talented tree worker.
> Why does everyone seem so Leary of the "dreaded" cottonwood? Working a poplar is a blast.


One idea comes to mind they resemble rice crispys snap crakkle pop lol

Dead is where it really gets bad though.


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## pdqdl (May 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> ...
> Why does everyone seem so Leary of the "dreaded" cottonwood? Working a poplar is a blast.



No hinge wood on the branches. You cut a wedge, then start your back cut and they just pop off and fall.

Cottonwood are quite the mystery to me: they stand up to ice & wind storms just fine, but if you compromise a branch with a chainsaw it just falls off the tree.


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## pdqdl (May 25, 2015)

tree lopper said:


> It's first a question of safety and secondly a question of economics. I lower branches the fastest way that is safe for people and property. I'd be surprised at anyone who decided on a method using any other criteria.
> 
> Bombing branches down is fastest, lowering on a rope comes in second and ziplining is only possibly going to be considered if the property owner has a high value structure or lanscaping beneath the tree.



Speedlining can save money on time while increasing safety, not just getting the branches off the landscaping. You can make your cuts faster, and you can use it to get the branches out of the drop zone for easier handling. I like it because I can begin setting up the next cut without waiting for the groundies to return the end of the rope to me. I have even been known to drop a branch, then speedline, then drop...it keeps the work area free of brush tangles that ultimately slow the crew down.


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## ropensaddle (May 25, 2015)

pdqdl said:


> No hinge wood on the branches. You cut a wedge, then start your back cut and they just pop off and fall.
> 
> Cottonwood are quite the mystery to me: they stand up to ice & wind storms just fine, but if you compromise a branch with a chainsaw it just falls off the tree.


Right swift like too lol ohh and the smell is soo lovely lol


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## acer-kid (May 25, 2015)

Carburetorless said:


> We were talking about the Tulip Poplar, Tulip Tree, Yellow Poplar, it's a whole different animal.



That isn't a tulip poplar.


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## BC WetCoast (May 25, 2015)

pdqdl said:


> No hinge wood on the branches. You cut a wedge, then start your back cut and they just pop off and fall.
> 
> Cottonwood are quite the mystery to me: they stand up to ice & wind storms just fine, but if you compromise a branch with a chainsaw it just falls off the tree.



I've found that the large bowed branches, which are liable to Sudden Limb Drop (or the other variations in the name), usually fail in the spring and summer during periods of sudden changes in air pressure. Haven't figured out the scientific explanation, just an observation. I suspect it has something to do with the high degree of tension the top of the branch is under.


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## Carburetorless (May 31, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> I've found that the large bowed branches, which are liable to Sudden Limb Drop (or the other variations in the name), usually fail in the spring and summer during periods of sudden changes in air pressure. Haven't figured out the scientific explanation, just an observation. I suspect it has something to do with the high degree of tension the top of the branch is under.



I've noticed that they tend to fail during heavy downpours, cloudbursts. I guess that's a sudden drop in barometric pressure, but I always thought it was the sudden weight of the water being added to the foliage/branches and the downward force on the branch being multiplies by released uplift from subsiding wind gusts. The wind pushes the water laden branches up, then subsides and the limb drops down hard and fails at the point where co-dominant stems join.


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## pdqdl (Jun 1, 2015)

Probably microbursts. These are accompanied by LOTS of rain, but the real action is a blast of air directed at the ground; kind of a vertical hurricane.

We get them around here, and they just level all the trees.
"Microbursts are recognized as capable of generating wind speeds higher than 75 m/s (170 mph; 270 km/h)."


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## acer-kid (Jun 1, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Yeah, they're a hoot.
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/it-was-a-hell-of-a-ride.261576/



That tree looks like a separate tie in scenario from word go. It's a flag pole. A big lollipop flag pole. Top heavy, no taper.. Seems like something was overlooked, yes?


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## ropensaddle (Jun 1, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> That tree looks like a separate tie in scenario from word go. It's a flag pole. A big lollipop flag pole. Top heavy, no taper.. Seems like something was overlooked, yes?


What climber has never been in a bean pole though? Here we have some pines competing for sun grow 100 foot and still only 6 to 8 inch dbh! Only thing to tie in is the tree ,I have been up too many thinking the whole time don't snap. Most of the worst ones was when I was danger tree foreman for our power company! Now if I see one i don't like, I can at least bid a crane but still, I most likely would of climbed that stick if I could not fell it!


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## Carburetorless (Jun 1, 2015)

pdqdl said:


> Probably microbursts. These are accompanied by LOTS of rain, but the real action is a blast of air directed at the ground; kind of a vertical hurricane.
> 
> We get them around here, and they just level all the trees.
> "Microbursts are recognized as capable of generating wind speeds higher than 75 m/s (170 mph; 270 km/h)."



Yea, we get those at the end of hot days here. This the time of year for them.


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## BC WetCoast (Jun 1, 2015)

Carburetorless said:


> I've noticed that they tend to fail during heavy downpours, cloudbursts. I guess that's a sudden drop in barometric pressure, but I always thought it was the sudden weight of the water being added to the foliage/branches and the downward force on the branch being multiplies by released uplift from subsiding wind gusts. The wind pushes the water laden branches up, then subsides and the limb drops down hard and fails at the point where co-dominant stems join.



I've seen them fail without the rain. The change in air pressure is the only real variant.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 1, 2015)

Wasn't top heavy at all, and had pretty decent taper for an aspen.


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## acer-kid (Jun 1, 2015)

Wow. I see no taper. At all. The hinge creates a bending moment in the stem before separation.. And without considerable taper.. Pop. I feel climbing pecker poles, and taking any type of weight/height from taking out a top, is just rolling dice on a stem blow out.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 3, 2015)

The Yellow Bellied Sap Sucker caused the whole thing.


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## acer-kid (Jun 3, 2015)

Right. Most definitely... But.. Your identification has been called into question just recently.. So I assume you definitely make up for it with Ornithology, no doubt.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 3, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Wow. I see no taper. At all. The hinge creates a bending moment in the stem before separation.. And without considerable taper.. Pop. I feel climbing pecker poles, and taking any type of weight/height from taking out a top, is just rolling dice on a stem blow out.


In that case so is working the tips! Yes its dicey a bit but I can assure you here if you can't climb one every once in a while you would be drawing unemployment. In a perfect world we would all own 100 ton cranes or helo's and though this stem did blow out, ten thousand before it did not. Maybe you live in a world without thorns or have always had choice of weather or not to climb a skinny one. Most of us have been in our share of bean poles without incident and we all, maybe not you; tie in to the top! Have you ever had your head above the canopy? a few of us have, granted it was not a poplar but my head has been above the canopy a few times "just sayin"


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## ropensaddle (Jun 3, 2015)

One thing I have got in the practice of lately is a pre climb two man bounce test. I know its a bit redneck I feel if it holds two persons weight bouncing on it, it will be fine for me going up. Most times on skinny ones I go high enough to bomb out as I don't like rigging off it.


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## acer-kid (Jun 3, 2015)

Sure I have. In many trees. On skinny bean poles, just for the hell of it? No. Why would I? Its called the law of averages. Why tempt fate? My understanding of the effects on the stem (one with little taper, none the less) from removing weight, or even adding weight.. Parallel loading in general I guess, dictates that I do everything I can do to avoid being solely connected to that tree. No one is saying you can't do it, or that the next one will break her leg.. But, push the odds long enough, and you'll get a jollylogger learning experience, in my opinion. Not that its worth much.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 4, 2015)

I see, well I never climb for the hell of it but I see your 30. In 1982 I was climbing around 20 trees per day 3 or 4 were burning bean poles with little taper for around 5 dollars per hour and to keep your mommy's power on; so it weren't fer nothing I suppose"just saying"


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## acer-kid (Jun 4, 2015)

Hahaha, you guys all have these grizzled "back when I" "when we all used to" "how I dun always dun it". Im sure there are plenty of you guys climbing bean poles. Power right to yas. And apparently to your mothers houses...


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## ropensaddle (Jun 4, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Hahaha, you guys all have these grizzled "back when I" "when we all used to" "how I dun always dun it". Im sure there are plenty of you guys climbing bean poles. Power right to yas. And apparently to your mothers houses...


Well I can't speak for "you guys" but it was my experience that the work needed done and a helo or crane was not optional, if that is grizzled, then I guess I am. The point was, being over 30 years never had a failed stem. I did push the envelope at ten years in the industry when I was 30. I climbed some dead stuff with peckerwood holes clean through them I would NOT climb today. Miraculously, I survived that ignorance but it was not by complete luck that I did ! Thing is; I worked at the start of many changes in our industry and many more since. I remember thinking about the old school before my time climbing with bowline on the bite saddles and had to tip my hat to them, as that "is grizzled ".


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## acer-kid (Jun 4, 2015)

ropensaddle said:


> Well I can't speak for "you guys" but it was my experience that the work needed done and a helo or crane was not optional, if that is grizzled, then I guess I am. The point was, being over 30 years never had a failed stem. I did push the envelope at ten years in the industry when I was 30. I climbed some dead stuff with peckerwood holes clean through them I would NOT climb today. Miraculously, I survived that ignorance but it was not by complete luck that I did ! Thing is; I worked at the start of many changes in our industry and many more since. I remember thinking about the old school before my time climbing with bowline on the bite saddles and had to tip my hat to them, as that "is grizzled ".


Fair enough. I'm still tying into separate TIP. If I can't, I'll kick it to the guys like you. The "grizzled"s. My son won't remember grizzled. Hell remember his old man taking a heavy 20' top out of a dowel, and splatting.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 4, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Fair enough. I'm still tying into separate TIP. If I can't, I'll kick it to the guys like you. The "grizzled"s. My son won't remember grizzled. Hell remember his old man taking a heavy 20' top out of a dowel, and splatting.


Well I agree I always try to find a separate tip but It did appear unavailable in this case. Oh and when I climb a bean pole i normally don't rig to it its bomb or swing to remote anker point but hey send em my way I can deal with them


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## Carburetorless (Jun 4, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Right. Most definitely... But.. Your identification has been called into question just recently.. So I assume you definitely make up for it with Ornithology, no doubt.



No, I'm not a bird watcher, but I'm not judging you either.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 4, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Fair enough. I'm still tying into separate TIP. If I can't, I'll kick it to the guys like you. The "grizzled"s. My son won't remember grizzled. Hell remember his old man taking a heavy 20' top out of a dowel, and splatting.



Well, if you can't do it, it's best to "kick it" to the pros?


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## acer-kid (Jun 4, 2015)

Lol


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## acer-kid (Jun 4, 2015)

ropensaddle said:


> Well I agree I always try to find a separate tip but It did appear unavailable in this case. Oh and when I climb a bean pole i normally don't rig to it its bomb or swing to remote anker point but hey send em my way I can deal with them


You go em my man. Keep in mind.. I'm not saying that they CANT be done. I'm not saying the don't HAVE to get done. I'm just not doing them without remote tips. I've almost never come across one that i'll bottle because I suspect a popped stem. But, judging by the pictures (and that's all I can do) of the post that was cited.. I would have look at that taper/species and said.. ****.. I dunno. 
You don't have to necessarily snatch a top to blow the stem out. There's a bending moment, or like a push back type force on the stem loading it laterally, as the hinge starts to separate readying for release. 
Anyways, this is pointless and off topic. I don't see the point in taking any extra risks when a situation presents itself where it seems those risks might be slightly higher due to whatever. Others don't think about it much, and go about their days. 
Either way, everyone is here to argue about it, so I suppose either I'm wrong, or its moot.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 4, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> You go em my man. Keep in mind.. I'm not saying that they CANT be done. I'm not saying the don't HAVE to get done. I'm just not doing them without remote tips. I've almost never come across one that i'll bottle because I suspect a popped stem. But, judging by the pictures (and that's all I can do) of the post that was cited.. I would have look at that taper/species and said.. ****.. I dunno.
> You don't have to necessarily snatch a top to blow the stem out. There's a bending moment, or like a push back type force on the stem loading it laterally, as the hinge starts to separate readying for release.
> Anyways, this is pointless and off topic. I don't see the point in taking any extra risks when a situation presents itself where it seems those risks might be slightly higher due to whatever. Others don't think about it much, and go about their days.
> Either way, everyone is here to argue about it, so I suppose either I'm wrong, or its moot.


Nahh bro your 100% right that if you don't feel safe don't do the job. I have bid cranes in on several jobs I knew I would not get because my price was 3 times higher than any competitor. Whats weird was, one guy asked why mine was so high and when I explained what would happen if a crane was not employed he signed up and I performed the work. Its rare though that I bid crane and if I do bid one, "it's needed to do the job".


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## pdqdl (Jun 5, 2015)

I have found that a crane often makes my jobs cheaper to do. Not that often, but it sure has paid off for me.

We did a large silver maple a couple of years ago that was perched right at the end of the back porch. The only way out was through a 28" gate...through all the landscaping and the far distance around the house too. Over $4k for that job, it was packed up, raked up, and hauled off only 6 hours later. Crane was lifting out chunks and dropping them in the street for my bobcat to load. Yes, he could have set the logs on our trucks, but it was faster to land in the street and return for the next chunk. 

The last chunk was the root flare. At 2500lbs and 70' of reach, it shook the 30 ton crane up off his front pedestal when the stump shifted a few feet downhill. It would have been a disaster had the stump not already been on the ground level. 5 minutes later, it was on a truck. With no crane, we would probably have been slicing and dicing for an hour just to get rid of the stump.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 6, 2015)

Oh, for heaven's sakes. It was just another aspen. 5 degree lean, sounded good at the base, healthy canopy, 16-18" dbh, tapered to 6-8" where I topped it. Just happened to have dry rot at the base. I suppose I could have taken a core sample and seen that, but there were no outward red flags. Believe me, I've second guessed myself half to death, but It was just another tree right up til it failed.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 6, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Oh, for heaven's sakes. It was just another aspen. 5 degree lean, sounded good at the base, healthy canopy, 16-18" dbh, tapered to 6-8" where I topped it. Just happened to have dry rot at the base. I suppose I could have taken a core sample and seen that, but there were no outward red flags. Believe me, I've second guessed myself half to death, but It was just another tree right up til it failed.



Yep, core sample, send it to a lab for analysis, get the EPA to inspect for possible environmental conflicts...... aaaahhhh screw it, just climb it.


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## acer-kid (Jun 6, 2015)

Carburetorless said:


> Yep, core sample, send it to a lab for analysis, get the EPA to inspect for possible environmental conflicts...... aaaahhhh screw it, just climb it.


 Or use a remote TIP when youre familiar with how and why stems fail. Search that thread. I CANT be the only person to have mentioned it. You must have missed when it was talked about that it was never mentioned the CANT, or DONT HAVE to be done. You fall into the category of ignorance is bliss. Tulip poplars beware! Hahahaha


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 6, 2015)

I'm guessing you've never had to use a secondary TIP. The results aren't much better.


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## acer-kid (Jun 6, 2015)

I do quite often on removals I have any doubt about. What might be the hindrance? Lanyard/redirect issues? Non issues with a bit of forethought. Mitigations can be made. Easily. Just takes a moment to set aside the " just climb it " mentality and use your noggin.


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## acer-kid (Jun 6, 2015)

As a matter of fact, I just read your thread in its entirety. I'm almost echoing another members posts. "I thought everyone knew that?" Well, there we go. There's another person who puts his safety first. Seems like he really knows his sh*t.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 6, 2015)

I didn't ask if you'd set one up, I asked if you've ever actually had to use one.


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## acer-kid (Jun 6, 2015)

I thought I nipped that bud at "I do quite often, anything questionable blah blah"? What's the issue here?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 6, 2015)

Simple question, have you ever had to use your bailout line?


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## acer-kid (Jun 6, 2015)

One failure thus far. On a split co-dom linden. Was tied into an adjacent tree, with a breakaway lanyard. Uncontrolled swing was avoided pretty well by my tail with a wrap on the butt of the linden. Ground "belay". Granted, in that scenario, everyone was prepared, or more waiting, for the failure. So everyone was ready for it. I've been lucky thus far. I don't stray from dangerous trees.. Just dangerous situations.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 6, 2015)

So, my nearest secondary was about 30 - 40' away. Had I tied into it, I would have banged into its trunk at roughly ground level, being immediately followed by the stem I was still tied into. Squish.


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## BC WetCoast (Jun 6, 2015)

Gotta love those 'sky hooks" as a secondary tie off.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 7, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Or use a remote TIP when youre familiar with how and why stems fail. Search that thread. I CANT be the only person to have mentioned it. You must have missed when it was talked about that it was never mentioned the CANT, or DONT HAVE to be done. You fall into the category of ignorance is bliss. Tulip poplars beware! Hahahaha



You have mental problems.


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## acer-kid (Jun 7, 2015)

You know my psychiatrist? They're not supposed to tell people that sh*t.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 8, 2015)

Must be same as wood holders psychiatrist


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## acer-kid (Jun 8, 2015)

The very same.


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## acer-kid (Jun 8, 2015)

TheJollyLogger said:


> followed by the stem I was still tied into. Squish.


And the survey says "X" *BUZZER NOISE*

You don't tie into a potential failure with life rated snaps. I think you're missing the idea of a auxiliary TIP. If you're lanyarded into the **** aspen w/ life rated gear.. What's the point of tying into a separate tree? You're right.. You'd just be pulled down with it... These conversations are starting to make me wonder around here...


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 8, 2015)

I think you've finally figured it out. There isn't a tree in the whole Interior I'd trust with a sideload, so a secondary TIP is kinda pointless.


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## acer-kid (Jun 8, 2015)

I still think we're on different pages. But we can call it a push. Im easy. Except with that carburetorless fella. He burns me and I don't know why.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 8, 2015)

You're still armchair quarterbacking, making huge assumptions off a couple pics.


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## acer-kid (Jun 8, 2015)

I already said that my opinion was SOLELY based on those pictures. It's an opinion. I've also said that they have to get done, and power to people that do them. But again, my OPINION is that you shouldn't be in ones like that (based on the pics i have formulated my OPINION on) without a remote TIP, break away lanyard and/or guying it. And I'm not making assumptions.. It's a fact. Youre proof. Skinny, toppy poplars with little taper are suspect. Right away.

You maybe should follow what your signature says, seeing as how your ego seems to be extremely butthurt about the idea of someone having a different view point on how a given situation plays out.
Jeeze..


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 8, 2015)

Of course they're suspect Any tree is suspect, especially any of the poplar genus. So your solution is not to climb them? I think you're trying to make climbing safe versus safer. You'll never eliminate the risk, and your thesis that any accident in this business is avoidable is flawed. We are dealing with a natural product with hidden flaws, and we don't always get to pick and choose our situations. If you want a 100% guarantee you're going to go home to that boy every night, you're in the wrong business.


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## acer-kid (Jun 8, 2015)

Wow. As is life in general. I could die driving my truck to the coffee shop. Flawed argument. You ARE in a business with inherent risks. No doubt. More than most professions. Mitigate them. Force mother nature as much as you can. Shes a mean old *****, and shell get you if you dont keep her in line as much as possible. We should learn from our mistakes and do it better next time. I'm not the only person to say "knew that was coming". You keep rolling the dice and the law of averages will catch up with you.


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## acer-kid (Jun 8, 2015)

I want a 100% guarantee that my boy doesn't wind up fatherless because I decided to snatch a top from a spindle pole aspen with no taper. I can well avoid that. For SURE.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 8, 2015)

Well. OK, now I'm pissed you little ****. Your know what half the best climbers in the business have in common? They're dead. Not because they ****ed up, because they knew the risks and climbed the ************ anyway. You dishonor their memory with your sanctimonious second guessing you little ****. Go climb your maples, boy.


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## acer-kid (Jun 8, 2015)

Wow. You really do need to change that signature.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 8, 2015)

Acer just a bit of advice take it as a grain of salt or learn from it. Its not what you say that's so annoying sometimes, it's how it's said and it is my guess your after reactions. I think your probably a fairly good climber might be up on things fairly well but you are not the voice piece of the climbing world. Is all you want to do is ridicule? If so I'm sorry for ya bud, awful lonely being a **** head just saying. I'm very sure jolly has played his whole bad day over and over in his own head and highly doubt he needs a 30 year old know it all giving him the business. I'm pretty sure you know that already though and are merely trolling for some sick form of self produced omniscience. As my favorite actor would of told you are ya gonna pull them pistil's or whistle dixie boy.


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## acer-kid (Jun 9, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> I still think we're on different pages. But we can call it a push. Im easy.


...common.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 9, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> I still think we're on different pages. .



That I'm assured of.


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## Carburetorless (Jun 9, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> ...common.



Now you're replying to your own posts, this is worse than I thought.


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## treesmith (Jun 13, 2015)

sometimes you've got to go past the defect or up the skinny **** just to do what needs doing, I can usually trust standing on thumb thick birch branches at the union and I'll always remember the thigh thick English oak branch giving way underneath me...

Climbers have to do sketchy ****, its part of the job, as is trying to make it as safe as possible. 

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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