# Splitter Design



## jthornton (Jan 12, 2013)

I'm kicking some ideas around in my mind for a new splitter build. Just looking for a sanity check at this point.

My idea is to have the cylinder and beam flat for towing and upright for splitting but with a twist, the bottom of the table is ~30" off the ground. With a log lift on one side of course. When the beam/cyl is flat the trailer hitch on the end will allow towing with my side by side and when not in use being vertical it takes up less room under the carport.

Have I lost my mind?

John


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 12, 2013)

There's a guy on here (from southern WI) that built a couple similar to that, except that the ram lowered down vertically for transport instead of folding, with a big work table and a cable log lift. I saw it in action at a GTG and thought it was a cool design. I'll try and find some pics later if no one else comes up with em first, gotta go run some errands now.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 12, 2013)

Found it, member triptester built it. If he doesn't show up here, maybe send him a PM.

Couple pics of his unit, first one shows the ram lowered for transport:


----------



## jthornton (Jan 12, 2013)

That's what I had in mind sorta, I wonder how he raises and lowers the ram?

Thanks for the photos.

John


----------



## triptester (Jan 12, 2013)

The ram raises and lowers itself. To raise the cylinder you operate the control valve extending the ram as you would when splitting. When the ram is fully extended 2 pins hold the clynder in place and your ready for splitting. To lower the procedure is reversed.


----------



## iowa (Jan 12, 2013)

Look at my signature line below. Click the link to my log splitter conversion.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 13, 2013)

iowa said:


> Look at my signature line below. Click the link to my log splitter conversion.



I see your in the other corner of MO from me, howdy neighbor.

I just got done reading your thread on the conversion. Nicely done. I didn't see a final photo of it and would be interested in seeing one if you have it. 

Watching the powersplit videos I like the foot pedal valve that frees up your hands to guide the wood.

I'm working with a W8 28lb beam that was a drop from a job I did so it was free for me and plenty stout.

Looking at the MTD splitter with open eyes now as a conversion and being 59 the 19 second cycle time is about right for me 

Did you take the cylinder apart before welding the ears on? Have you seen any issues with the welded area?

Edit: I also like the lift lock on the AUSSIE CHOPPER, that looks like a neat feature. I don't like the dual hand controls...

Thanks
John


----------



## iowa (Jan 13, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I see your in the other corner of MO from me, howdy neighbor.
> 
> I just got done reading your thread on the conversion. Nicely done. I didn't see a final photo of it and would be interested in seeing one if you have it.
> 
> ...



Howdy!!! I'm using a W6 x 28lb beam on this splitter. It's plenty stout! BTW. If you ever run into more W beam I'd be interested in purchasing some from you. I've always got idears running through my head. LOL.

I never took apart the cyl when I welded it. So far no issues and it's split 15+ cord of wood by now. 

Here's a pic of it finished and we were splitting wood with it late fall. It will be getting a new axel soon with bigger tires!


----------



## jthornton (Jan 13, 2013)

I'll let you know if I get any spare wide flange beams 

I got two drops from the job and built this shop gantry from the other piece.

View attachment 273216


John


----------



## iowa (Jan 13, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I'll let you know if I get any spare wide flange beams
> 
> I got two drops from the job and built this shop gantry from the other piece.
> 
> ...



Oh hell ya!!! You even got a lathe too! NICE.. I'm looking for one. But I need to build me a shop first!

What do you do? I'm a tool maker..


----------



## WidowMaker (Jan 13, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I'll let you know if I get any spare wide flange beams
> 
> I got two drops from the job and built this shop gantry from the other piece.
> 
> ...




===

What are "drops" you guys speak of????


----------



## jthornton (Jan 13, 2013)

iowa said:


> Oh hell ya!!! You even got a lathe too! NICE.. I'm looking for one. But I need to build me a shop first!
> 
> What do you do? I'm a tool maker..



I design and build automation equipment. I have a shop full of CNC equipment as well as the old Samson lathe hanging from the gantry crane in the photo.

This is the view from each corner of my shop... looked big at one time.
View attachment 273249
View attachment 273250
View attachment 273251
View attachment 273252


John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 13, 2013)

This is most of the machines in the shop.

View attachment 273254
View attachment 273255
View attachment 273256
View attachment 273257
View attachment 273258


John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 13, 2013)

Must be a limit on images here is the last two machine shots
View attachment 273261
View attachment 273262


And last but not least the reason for building a firewood splitter the mighty LogWood.
View attachment 273259


----------



## jthornton (Jan 13, 2013)

WidowMaker said:


> ===
> 
> What are "drops" you guys speak of????



Steel comes usually 20', 24', or 40' long so if I need a W8x28lb beam 16' long the leftover 4' is called a "drop". The customer pays for 20' and if they have no use for the "drop" I keep it.

John


----------



## triptester (Jan 13, 2013)

DROPS are great. My projects are built around what comes out of the dumpster.


----------



## iowa (Jan 13, 2013)

Whoa! Nice shop jthornton! 

I've run very little cnc equipment. All manual stuff. I am in the plastic injection part of things. I've got a small shop and fix what I can on the big molds that we have there.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 14, 2013)

iowa said:


> Whoa! Nice shop jthornton!
> 
> I've run very little cnc equipment. All manual stuff. I am in the plastic injection part of things. I've got a small shop and fix what I can on the big molds that we have there.



Thanks, I had some time to draw today turns out I'm a bit short of beam for a 24" stroke so I'm going to have to improvise a bit it seems. In any case here is what I have so far.

View attachment 273432


I do have some 6x6x1/4 square tube and 6 1/2' piece of 8" ID x 3/8" wall pipe... must do some thinking outside of the box I think.

John


----------



## iowa (Jan 14, 2013)

Looking pretty slick. 

I drew my splitter up on AutoCad R14 before doing anything. Works awesome!


----------



## jthornton (Jan 14, 2013)

I use SolidWorks for all my design work... so fast I can make mistakes faster than I can see them LOL. I did some more thinking and redesigning this evening (work slow) and came up with a plan for vertical stowing the cylinder when not in use.

This shows it stowed, retracted, and extended. Best of all I use what materials I have on hand... stowed height from the deck to the top is just under 48" so if I make the deck height 24" then 6' tall when stowed.

View attachment 273473
View attachment 273474
View attachment 273475


John


----------



## iowa (Jan 14, 2013)

How thick of material is the sides of your U that pins the cylinder in place?


----------



## jthornton (Jan 15, 2013)

iowa said:


> How thick of material is the sides of your U that pins the cylinder in place?



If you mean the part that the bars slide in it is made from 1/2" x 4, but I'm not thinking it is stout enough for that design and I'm re-thinking that part a bit... If you have any suggestions I'm open ears.

John


----------



## iowa (Jan 15, 2013)

jthornton said:


> If you mean the part that the bars slide in it is made from 1/2" x 4, but I'm not thinking it is stout enough for that design and I'm re-thinking that part a bit... If you have any suggestions I'm open ears.
> 
> John



Yes. Don't do it! LOL. 

Let me think on it today! Actually make a mounting plate on the front of that cylinder. Tapped for the cylinder ties to thread into. That would be easy.


----------



## triptester (Jan 15, 2013)

I use this method to adapt both tie-rod and welded cylinders to front mount.

1. A cylinder shortened with mounting plate.
2. Retainer brackets
3. Support plates at top of column 1/2 x 6
4. On this splitter the column is made with 2 2x6 tubes with a 2" gap between.


----------



## iowa (Jan 15, 2013)

I think I would make it more beefy than tripesters. 1" plate with 3/4" side plates for your pins etc. 

I made mine the opposite because of my cylinder. Either way it don't matter and will all work good! 

My next vertical splitter will not have the cylinder move up and down for transport. It will be fixed and the vertical beam will pivot on the bottom. I'll have a cylinder move it from a 30deg angle for transport to 90 deg angle for splitting. Also have a hyd cylinder for log lift. 

I do like the pulley system and it is very cheap and easy. But I hate having the thing moving up and down with every stroke. Yes I could make a latch system to keep it level when not using it, but I'm too lazy lol. My kids also get in the way of it or don't look out when I'm splitting and it comes up. They love taking the lift for a ride though!


----------



## jthornton (Jan 15, 2013)

Triptester, thanks for the detailed photos. This is still only made of electrons so it is easy to change at this point. I looked again at my design and beefed it up to this.

View attachment 273572
View attachment 273573
View attachment 273574


I still haven't made up my mind if the traveling cylinder is worth the effort to make. On the other hand my beam is a bit short LOL. 

John


----------



## triptester (Jan 15, 2013)

I went with the 1/2"x 6" support plates after reaching many front mounted cylinders , outside the US front mounted cylinders are common, most use 3/8" plate.
The splitter in the pic has a 5" bore and has been abused for over 10 years with no deflection of the support plates.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 15, 2013)

triptester said:


> I went with the 1/2"x 6" support plates after reaching many front mounted cylinders , outside the US front mounted cylinders are common, most use 3/8" plate.
> The splitter in the pic has a 5" bore and has been abused for over 10 years with no deflection of the support plates.



My base plate is 1/2" x 6" and I'm planning on using a 4" cylinder so I should be safe.

Thanks for the info.

John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 15, 2013)

I removed the extra bracing in this depiction. I did extend the rear spacer back to the beam so it is 1" thick from the beam out.

View attachment 273588


Triptester what kind of axle did you use?

John


----------



## triptester (Jan 15, 2013)

jthornton said:


> Tripster, thanks for the detailed photos. This is still only made of electrons so it is easy to change at this point. I looked again at my design and beefed it up to this.
> 
> View attachment 273572
> View attachment 273573
> ...



If you eliminate the clevis maybe your beam will be long enough.
I also found the foot plate has to be much wider. With a 6" wide foot plate and 1/4" diamond plate table top deep indentations formedin the diamond plate either side of the foot.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 15, 2013)

triptester said:


> If you eliminate the clevis maybe your beam will be long enough.
> I also found the foot plate has to be much wider. With a 6" wide foot plate and 1/4" diamond plate table top deep indentations formed in the diamond plate either side of the foot.



My beam is 60 3/4" long... I'll have to see how big of a piece of 3/4 I have for the foot plate. I was planning on surrounding it with framework and a working table similar to yours.

John


----------



## triptester (Jan 15, 2013)

For axles I use 1 1/2" pipe and bolt-on hubs from front wheel drive cars, preferably Dodge because they are greaseable and the bearings can be replaced.

This pic is of an old axle that the square tube rotted out and was replaced with some 1/4" formed galvanized channel.


----------



## triptester (Jan 15, 2013)

On average 48" or less is needed for the column. With five splitter builds and couunting ,while having the same basic function each build design has been determined by drops found. Square tube, rectangular tube, angle iron, or I-beam.
Getting the right balance point to prevent tipping or excessive tounge weight is critical.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 15, 2013)

I looked up in my attic and over at the other shop and have 5 new B&S engines to pick from. I think the Intek's are the biggest at 190cc so I'll probably use one of them.

I think I'll explore the folding concept next. I did some recon work today and looked at some other splitters and I see what you mean by loosing the clevis. I guess it depends on the design of the rod, some are threaded and some just have a pin hole... I'm leaning toward the Prince 5" x 24" from splitez.com so I have to rework the design anyhow.

Thanks for all the help and keep the ideas coming.

John


----------



## iowa (Jan 15, 2013)

Always remember KISS! 

I was just looking on splitez website. I think I'm gonna go with a prince 4" bore, 24" stroke, 2" shaft tie rod cyl. 16 gpm pump and 8-10hp electric start engine!


----------



## jthornton (Jan 16, 2013)

Just doing some comparisons and if I had no hardware and went with the 11GPM engine combo from spliteze it would cost me $850, plus if I go with trailer axle/hub and wheels that is another $250 while a complete ready to go 22 ton splitter costs me $1150 at Orschelns. Of course the spliteze parts need to add shipping and the Orschelns will add tax.

I know I'm just ranting cause if I give in and get one from Orschelns it won't be exactly what I want but it will split wood.

So I'm thinking with the beam I have I might as well go with a 5" bore and be able to split engine blocks in half for scrap or crush beer cans too. A 16GPM pump will move the ram faster than I can keep up I think and should work with the 190cc Briggs engine well enough.

Gotta do more checking but work gets in the way today.

John


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 16, 2013)

Unless you have all the parts laying around, it's pretty hard to make one for less than a new one. As you say, you make one because you want to, non offered that suits your needs, or your just crazy. I fall into all 3 of those!


----------



## jthornton (Jan 16, 2013)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> Unless you have all the parts laying around, it's pretty hard to make one for less than a new one. As you say, you make one because you want to, non offered that suits your needs, or your just crazy. I fall into all 3 of those!



I resemble that remark LOL, I might add that I will build one because I can.

I just emailed splitez with some questions about pumps and stuff they are selling.

John


----------



## iowa (Jan 16, 2013)

jthornton said:


> Just doing some comparisons and if I had no hardware and went with the 11GPM engine combo from spliteze it would cost me $850, plus if I go with trailer axle/hub and wheels that is another $250 while a complete ready to go 22 ton splitter costs me $1150 at Orschelns. Of course the spliteze parts need to add shipping and the Orschelns will add tax.
> 
> I know I'm just ranting cause if I give in and get one from Orschelns it won't be exactly what I want but it will split wood.
> 
> ...



Hey. This style splitter is THE way to go! Don't get a big box store splitter. They're slow and not fun to use and once you get it you'll wish you had a log lift and your back will curse you every time you go out to split!

A few things to think about. After building mine... etc...5" bore is big. With a 16gpm pump it will be pretty slow. You need to go up to a 22gpm pump at the least for decent cycle times. When you go from a 16gpm pump to a 22gpm pump the price doubles!!! Pump, fittings, hoses, etc all double! 

My splitter has a 4.5" bore with a 13gpm pump. It's ok. It splits everything with ease. So I'm looking for speed. My next build will be a 9hp electric start, 16gpm pump, and a 4" bore cylinder and 2" shaft. 

I don't know your situation thoug and how much wood you split a yr. I split on average 4-6 cord a yr. But unless you split 20+ cord and want to put a 4 way wedge on it the 5" bore is way overkill and you'll be cursing it everytime you stroke it and wait, wait, wait, for it to retract to spin your round for the next split. Having a table splitter like this requires speed! You only spin the round. You're not picking up the wood off the ground or repositioning it much. Cylinder strokes down and pops the split, you stroke back up, push or spin the round over and you're ready. Pretty soon your table is filled with wood splits! I set my 18' flatbed next to my table and throw in there or split right next to were I stack. It goes very fast!


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 16, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I resemble that remark LOL, I might add that I will build one because I can.
> 
> I just emailed splitez with some questions about pumps and stuff they are selling.
> 
> John



James at Splitez is one of the nicest guys you'll ever deal with. He helped me with parts and info in building mine and has a 5 star rating from me. He builds them himself so he's seen it all. Kevin


----------



## triptester (Jan 16, 2013)

When building a splitter it is to your benefit to go slow. Cylinders can be found on ebay at a good price, I got a new 5"x24" for $150 and a 22 gpm pump for $200. Pre-made hoses are available at farm stores for $20 or less apiece. Fittings can be had for less than $5 each. Most hydraulic shops will 2-5 times more.
A good place online for hydraulic fittings is DiscountHydraulicHose.com


----------



## jthornton (Jan 16, 2013)

Yea, vertical is what I'll build... I just remembered I have two machine hoists (like a boat winch but for raising and lowering a load) that I can use to raise and lower the beam/cylinder. With a 190cc overhead valve engine on hand the mininum I have to purchase from splitez is:

4" x 24" x 2" Cyl EZ 4024 CW $159.95
2 Stage 13GPM EZ-1093-A $119.00
Detent Valve 3/4in 1/2out EZ-LSV-1 $59.95
$338.90

Plus a bengie for shipping I assume and get hoses locally and scrounge some bolt on hubs. Fab up a tank... seems doable for ~ $600 if I get the lowest cost components. Again I split 2-3 cords a year depending on the weather. I know my beam is way overkill for a 4" cylinder but it is what I have handy.

Next Level up with the same size cylinder
4" x 24" x 2" Cyl EZ 4024 LS-1.75 $250.00
2 Stage 13 GPM DYN Pump EZ-DY-13 $125.00
Prince Detent Valve 3/4 I/O 1/2W LS-3000-1 $87.00
$462.00

So I wonder what my $123 for better components gets me? Guess I need to call James and bend his ear a bit as I've not got a reply to my email from this morning...

John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 16, 2013)

triptester said:


> When building a splitter it is to your benefit to go slow. Cylinders can be found on ebay at a good price, I got a new 5"x24" for $150 and a 22 gpm pump for $200. Pre-made hoses are available at farm stores for $20 or less apiece. Fittings can be had for less than $5 each. Most hydraulic shops will 2-5 times more.
> A good place online for hydraulic fittings is DiscountHydraulicHose.com



I want to use one of the 190cc Briggs engines I have so I'm assuming I'll have to stay in the 11 to 13 GPM area of pumps.

A friend of mine gave me a hand pump splitter (I think he is a friend LOL) and for grins I split a piece of dry white oak about 8" in diameter... much easier to use the old double blade axe. In any case I thought I'd see what it could do. For a laugh this is the hand jobby... what a waste.

View attachment 273853


John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 17, 2013)

Checking some cycle times (unloaded) for various cylinder diameters with the stroke limited to 20" (I cut 18" mostly) and with a 13 GPM pump (that is all I think the 190cc motor will do)

4" x 1 3/4" = 9 seconds
4 1/2" x 1 3/4" = 12 seconds
5" x 2" = 15 seconds

Now I know the cycle times will be slower when your splitting and go into low gear with the pump. I'm assuming the bigger the cylinder the longer the pump will stay in high gear as it has more force per pound of pressure. Also I don't move very fast due to a bit of dead meat in my heart...

I don't really care much for flea bay any more and pay sow even sucks more IMHO. So I'm in the market for a new cylinder. 

Price get high fast with a 5" cylinder... 4" x 24" ranges from $150 - $300 at splitez and 4 1/2" x 24" is $287 (only one choice at splitez) and 5" x 24" ranges from $377 - $575.

I guess splitez doesn't check their email often, I've sent two requests with no answer yet.

John


----------



## triptester (Jan 17, 2013)

Check Surplus center they have a large choice of cylinders and hydraulics.

Here is a link for a 5x24x2 cylinder Surplus Center - 5x24x2 HYDRAULIC DA LOG SPLITTER CYLINDER


----------



## jthornton (Jan 17, 2013)

triptester said:


> For axles I use 1 1/2" pipe and bolt-on hubs from front wheel drive cars, preferably Dodge because they are greaseable and the bearings can be replaced.
> 
> This pic is of an old axle that the square tube rotted out and was replaced with some 1/4" formed galvanized channel.



I got this axle from the salvage yard today, said it is a Dodge type K whatever that is... I got just about everything including the hub caps!

View attachment 274044


John


----------



## iowa (Jan 17, 2013)

Hey. I got one just like that a month ago. It's going on my splitter soon! Just need some good tires first. 

I'm glad that wasn't a picture of a store bought splitter!


----------



## jthornton (Jan 17, 2013)

iowa said:


> Hey. I got one just like that a month ago. It's going on my splitter soon! Just need some good tires first.
> 
> I'm glad that wasn't a picture of a store bought splitter!



I almost caved in for a nanosecond or two...

The axle as it is is 5' and I think the Kubota is about 4' so I need to shorten the axle so the splitter can go where the Kubota goes.

John


----------



## triptester (Jan 17, 2013)

With that axle to shorten I make 2 cuts. The first cut is next to the vertical plate just enough to sever the rod inside the U-channel. The second cut is 2" from the 1/2" vertical plate. This leaves a fish mouth near perfect for 1 1/2" pipe. There will be 2 tabs left between the first and second cuts that can be wrapped around the pipe for welding. The location of the cuts are marked on the left side.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 17, 2013)

triptester said:


> With that axle to shorten I make 2 cuts. The first cut is next to the vertical plate just enough to sever the rod inside the U-channel. The second cut is 2" from the 1/2" vertical plate. This leaves a fish mouth near perfect for 1 1/2" pipe. There will be 2 tabs left between the first and second cuts that can be wrapped around the pipe for welding. The location of the cuts are marked on the left side.



My plan was to use the axle and grind off the weld for the tube and make a cut in the middle to remove a section. Then weld the center back with a little fish mouth for extra strength then weld the tube back in and cut it off to original. I have the springs and other hardware to mount it as is... still thinking on that. I understand what your saying about using the 1 1/2" pipe and that makes sense too. The U tube is 3/16" thick so I think that will be plenty strong.

Removing the hubs in this photo... does the hub press out of the brake drum?
View attachment 274073


John


----------



## triptester (Jan 17, 2013)

Yes the drums come off the hub. Back off the brake shoes, spray penetrating oil around hub and studs, then you have to beat on the drums to break them loose. They are suppose to slide on and off but are usually rusted in place. With the axle off the car it's eazier to cut the drum in half to remove.

Shortened Dodge axle with 1 1/2" pipe.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 18, 2013)

triptester said:


> Yes the drums come off the hub. Back off the brake shoes, spray penetrating oil around hub and studs, then you have to beat on the drums to break them loose. They are suppose to slide on and off but are usually rusted in place. With the axle off the car it's eazier to cut the drum in half to remove.
> 
> Shortened Dodge axle with 1 1/2" pipe.



About how wide did you make your axle overall including wheels. One thing for sure using trailer springs would be an easier way to hook it up than what I was thinking about yesterday.

John


----------



## triptester (Jan 18, 2013)

The frame is 48" wide and there is 1" of clearance between the tires and frame rails. Overall 64" width.


----------



## mhrischuk (Jan 18, 2013)

jthornton said:


> Steel comes usually 20', 24', or 40' long so if I need a W8x28lb beam 16' long the leftover 4' is called a "drop". The customer pays for 20' and if they have no use for the "drop" I keep it.
> 
> John



Hey just saw in your sig you have a JD 310A. I have one too. Just a quick one not to take this off topic too much. Have you rebuilt the injection pump yet? I did mine last year. The governor assy inside falls apart.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 18, 2013)

mhrischuk said:


> Hey just saw in your sig you have a JD 310A. I have one too. Just a quick one not to take this off topic too much. Have you rebuilt the injection pump yet? I did mine last year. The governor assy inside falls apart.



Yes, I had the injector pump rebuilt a few years ago. A couple of years ago I had the hydraulic pump rebuilt... turns out the one of the few re-builders for that type of pump is located about 60 miles from me. Talk about a difference in power after putting the rebuilt pump in and changing both hydraulic filters. Hard to start in cold weather and don't idle well but she is mine and has dug and moved a lot of the hills around here.

John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 18, 2013)

I've decided to go with leaf springs just to simplify the build. I came home with a pair of 1000lb springs and after some higher cyphering I determined that they didn't look right so I took them back and for $3 more per spring got a pair of 1750lb springs... which look much better.

View attachment 274173


Now to finalize the design and remove the excess metal from the axle and shorten it up and make it ready for the springs.

John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 19, 2013)

I had a little time this morning to work on the K axle.

Stripped off the excess parts except for the shock mounts, not sure if I need them at this point.
View attachment 274284


Drilled out the tube so it will slide out when I shorten the axle.
View attachment 274285


So far I have the axle, the 190cc Briggs engines (about 7hp) and the steel. So a 13GPM is the biggest pump the engine will swing AFAIK. The big choice at this point is the cylinder size. Do I just go with the 4" x 24" which will give me 9 second unloaded cycle time with the stroke shortened to 20" (I cut 18" long for my tiny stove). And the big question is to go with Made in USA for the pump and valve for $250 or Chinleese for $180?

Much to ponder...

John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 21, 2013)

I got the axle drawn up in SW so I'm making progress.

View attachment 274723


John


----------



## iowa (Jan 21, 2013)

Nice! If you're going with 13gpm. Go with a 4" cylinder. And go with USA made valve and pump. Duh. You work in manufacturing! The worst thing you can do is buy chinolla crap!


----------



## jthornton (Jan 21, 2013)

iowa said:


> Nice! If you're going with 13gpm. Go with a 4" cylinder. And go with USA made valve and pump. Duh. You work in manufacturing! The worst thing you can do is buy chinolla crap!



I got my mind right now boss... I'll get my dirt out of your hole now.

John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 22, 2013)

I did a little more refining of the axle design so this will be it unless I change my mind again.

View attachment 274930


John


----------



## Jakers (Jan 22, 2013)

opcorn: Subscribed.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 22, 2013)

Pulled the trigger on a Lion 40TH24-175 4" x 24" tie rod cylinder at Northern Tool. It is back ordered for a few days but I'm not in a big hurry. I'll order the Haldex pump and Prince valve from Splitez. I guess I can say Made In North America on the side with the Lion cylinder being from the north country.

John


----------



## mhrischuk (Jan 22, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I got this axle from the salvage yard today, said it is a Dodge type K whatever that is... I got just about everything including the hub caps!
> 
> View attachment 274044
> 
> ...



Dodge "K" car... remember them. It's the rear axle from K car. Lee Iaccoca's baby that resurrected Chrysler.
They are front wheel drive cars.


----------



## iowa (Jan 22, 2013)

jthornton said:


> Pulled the trigger on a Lion 40TH24-175 4" x 24" tie rod cylinder at Northern Tool. It is back ordered for a few days but I'm not in a big hurry. I'll order the Haldex pump and Prince valve from Splitez. I guess I can say Made In North America on the side with the Lion cylinder being from the north country.
> 
> John



I don't care what everyone else says about you. But you're alright!


----------



## jthornton (Jan 24, 2013)

I got a little free time on the mill today and built the spring tie plates.

View attachment 275297


John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 24, 2013)

A couple more progress photos of the K Axle.

View attachment 275316
View attachment 275317


John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 26, 2013)

Got the K axle done except for clean up and paint... all put together for mock up.

View attachment 275708


John


----------



## mhrischuk (Jan 26, 2013)

Time to take out the pressure washer!


----------



## jthornton (Jan 27, 2013)

mhrischuk said:


> Time to take out the pressure washer!



That is plan for today...

I'm thinking a 30" table height... what do you guys think?

John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 27, 2013)

I got some more work done on the CAD for the frame. I have a bunch of 2 x 3 x 3/16 tube so I'll use that for the frame. I still have lots of CAD work left but I think I'm heading in the right direction. I'm thinking of folding work tables that swing on a vertical pivot and swing to the front when stowed. I decided to use a 5 x 8 beam that I had and that is how long it is so some fab work will be needed to attach the back of the cylinder.

View attachment 275919
View attachment 275920


Any thoughts?

John


----------



## iowa (Jan 27, 2013)

I think my table is around 30-32" tall. Its about perfect for me. I am 6'5" though. My neighbor has used it also and he is 6'. So it worked for him also.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jan 27, 2013)

I'd go with a narrower frame. Looks like you'll have to lean/reach quite a bit if you want to use it horizontal. Not an issue if it's going to be used 100% vertical though. Looks good otherwise from here, except that ram hanging in midair


----------



## jthornton (Jan 28, 2013)

Steve NW WI said:


> I'd go with a narrower frame. Looks like you'll have to lean/reach quite a bit if you want to use it horizontal. Not an issue if it's going to be used 100% vertical though. Looks good otherwise from here, except that ram hanging in midair



It's strictly for vertical use from the rear. The horizontal mode is for towing only. The ram is connected to an invisible sky hook for the moment until I sort out what I'm going to use to connect it up.

John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 28, 2013)

iowa said:


> I think my table is around 30-32" tall. Its about perfect for me. I am 6'5" though. My neighbor has used it also and he is 6'. So it worked for him also.



I'm 5'9" so 28-30" tall should be good for me.

John


----------



## iowa (Jan 28, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I'm 5'9" so 28-30" tall should be good for me.
> 
> John



Sounds good. I don't know if you have decided on the depth and width of your table or not. My table is 1/2" thick 2' x 4'. My new one that I'm going to make will have a larger table. The 2' depth is ok, but the width needs be larger. I would go with 6'. My new table will be 2 1/2' x 6'.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 28, 2013)

This is kinda what I have in my mind at the moment for the table... not entirely sure I like the concept yet.

View attachment 276139
View attachment 276140


John


----------



## motoman3b (Jan 28, 2013)

Cool design, I like it looks very functional in both positions!


----------



## jthornton (Jan 28, 2013)

Might be a bit of a stretch to use when in the stowed position.

I did some scrounging today and came up with 2' of 4" x 12" beam which is just enough to extend the 5 x 8 beam to mount the cylinder. I'll trim some off one side and add back a 4" x 1/4" plate that wraps up and around to the clevis mount.

View attachment 276196
View attachment 276197


John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 28, 2013)

Axle is done... cleaned, painted and undercoated. Now to clean up the hubs get some fresh grease in them and I'm ready to roll.

View attachment 276226


John


----------



## triptester (Jan 28, 2013)

It doesn't look like the swinging tables are going to leave much clearance for the engine and hydraulic tank.
On the first table splitter I built I had a piece of 6" I-beam for the foot with a 24"x 66"x 1/4" thick diamond plate top. It didn't take long for the diamond plate to get deep indentations either side of the I-beam. I ended up with 1/2" thick by 24" wide gusseted backer under the table top.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 29, 2013)

triptester said:


> It doesn't look like the swinging tables are going to leave much clearance for the engine and hydraulic tank.
> On the first table splitter I built I had a piece of 6" I-beam for the foot with a 24"x 66"x 1/4" thick diamond plate top. It didn't take long for the diamond plate to get deep indentations either side of the I-beam. I ended up with 1/2" thick by 24" wide gusseted backer under the table top.



The indentations were from the log splitting in half and pressing on the table top? At this point my plate is 8" x 8" x 3/4" which is the biggest piece of 3/4" I have laying about. I might go to the scrap yard and see if they have anything bigger in 3/4".

Thanks for the tip.

John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 29, 2013)

triptester said:


> It doesn't look like the swinging tables are going to leave much clearance for the engine and hydraulic tank.



Good catch, the motor is 9 1/2" tall and the clearance as drawn is 8 1/2"... I'll have to re-think how to stow the table(s).

John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 29, 2013)

Prince detent valve and Haldex 13GPM pump on the way from Splitez...

John


----------



## iowa (Jan 29, 2013)

i got me a 16gpm pump yesterday. Speeco....


----------



## jthornton (Jan 29, 2013)

iowa said:


> i got me a 16gpm pump yesterday. Speeco....



If you get done splitting before me bring it by and I'll grab a jug of elderberry medicine and watch you finish my pile... then I'll get you a jug.

John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 29, 2013)

Cutting out some doublers for the spring hangers.

[video=youtube;yqSMdK7V9Ps]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqSMdK7V9Ps[/video]

John


----------



## iowa (Jan 29, 2013)

Geez.... Must be nice having a cnc plasma cutter!


----------



## triptester (Jan 29, 2013)

What method are you planning for raising and lowering the beam. Another thing to consider is the positioning of the hydraulic hoses as the beam is going form one position to the next.


----------



## jthornton (Jan 30, 2013)

iowa said:


> Geez.... Must be nice having a cnc plasma cutter!



I built that a few years ago and it does come in handy. I just finished adding a coolant tank and modifying the water table and slats a couple of months ago... still need to paint the water tank.

View attachment 276436


That was my first use of EMC2 now known as LinuxCNC. I was so happy to get a computer that would load Linux much less run EMC2 on it that I just had to build a CNC machine.

This is an early photo when I was testing/building in the beer cave.






John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 30, 2013)

triptester said:


> What method are you planning for raising and lowering the beam. Another thing to consider is the positioning of the hydraulic hoses as the beam is going form one position to the next.



One way I'm considering is to use the cylinder to raise itself up with a cable or chain. Another thought is to use a hydraulic jack to raise and lower. Another thought is to use a cable type of log lift to raise it up... I still have to ponder that and if you have any ideas my mind is open.

There are only 2 hoses that come from the valve to the rest of the splitter right? The return and the pressure hose. I assume at this point they will have to have a large radius somewhere near the pivot point... the devil is in the details for sure. 

John


----------



## triptester (Jan 30, 2013)

Nice CNC build. I envy you young guys with your toys and the smarts to operate them.
Getting a good angle of pull with a cable may be difficult due to limited anchor points.
With the hydraulic jack a safe controlled lowering may pose a problem.
Every thing can be conguered, it's the changes that are a pain.


----------



## iowa (Jan 30, 2013)

Are you going to put a log lift on this??

I'm going to use a small cylinder to raise and lower the beam from transport to split mode. Also will use a cylinder for a log lift most likely. I did the cable deal on my last one. It works great! I just wanna do something different!


----------



## jthornton (Jan 30, 2013)

triptester said:


> Nice CNC build. I envy you young guys with your toys and the smarts to operate them.
> Getting a good angle of pull with a cable may be difficult due to limited anchor points.
> With the hydraulic jack a safe controlled lowering may pose a problem.
> Every thing can be conquered, it's the changes that are a pain.



Thanks it is usually more like brute determination than smarts for me... but I get there eventually.

If I use a cable/chain then I would need some kind of gin pole until the beam is at a 45 deg angle. I've done this type of thing many times in the past with machines and sail boats. I have a couple of cable hoists that I scavenged from some imaging equipment installation/shipping containers that was just installed in the new hospital and only used once! It is a proper lifting hoist not a boat winch type so that is an option too. 

One of the reasons I like doing it in CAD first is to work out as many design faults as I can before I fire up the welder.

Thanks for the input.
John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 30, 2013)

Started on some of the frame components. Got the front spring hangers more or less done. Took a couple of scrap pieces of 2" x 4" 11ga tubing and glued on a 11ga doublers on the sides. Through drilled them then cut the hanger out with my angle grinder... I think they came out ok.

View attachment 276473


John


----------



## jthornton (Jan 31, 2013)

FedEx brought my Haldex, now Concentric 13GPM pump today!

Yea!


----------



## jthornton (Feb 1, 2013)

Another FexEx delivery today and the Prince spool valve showed up. I got some work done on the scab on part for the main beam. I need the cylinder to show up so I can get some hard measurements on it.

View attachment 276792
View attachment 276793


Of course everything new in the shop gets a cat scan...

John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 2, 2013)

I did find out that my Lion TH cylinder is due to ship from the factory on Feb 6th so that is good news. I'm pretty happy with the frame size and will build it while I wait for the cylinder to show up. The trailer will be kinda heavy on the tongue vs a normal trailer tongue weight of 10% or so but I don't think that will have any affect on something this light. This will be inside most of the time so maneuverability will be a priority. So I'm thinking of putting something like this on the tongue.

View attachment 276869


John


----------



## mhrischuk (Feb 2, 2013)

Do you have an estimated weight at completion? Heck with it being on SW you should be able to do a pretty good estimate in addition to seeing where the CG is. Nice work.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 2, 2013)

mhrischuk said:


> Do you have an estimated weight at completion? Heck with it being on SW you should be able to do a pretty good estimate in addition to seeing where the CG is. Nice work.



I don't have enough details drawn up in SW yet to check the mass properties but I know it will be tongue heavy. I have a couple of Briggs engines in SW but not the one I'm using but I could fake that by weighing the one I have.

Thanks
John


----------



## mhrischuk (Feb 2, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I don't have enough details drawn up in SW yet to check the mass properties but I know it will be tongue heavy. I have a couple of Briggs engines in SW but not the one I'm using but I could fake that by weighing the one I have.
> 
> Thanks
> John



Yea you don't need perfect numbers. Just look up specs on line and put a block where the engine goes that weighs similar.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 3, 2013)

I assume the pressure gauge T's into the work line somewhere convenient like near the detent valve, but what pressure range do you use 0-3000 or 0-3600 or 0-4000?

How do you cipher the tank capacity?

Here is where I'm at today on the design side... the only thing set in stone (built) at this point is the axle and springs and the beam.

View attachment 277119


Thanks
John


----------



## iowa (Feb 3, 2013)

A good rule of thumb most guys here go by is a gallon of oil per gpm on your pump. So if you have a 13gpm pump 13 gallons of oil. Keep in mind your lines, valves, and cylinder hold a lot too. 

However, this is more for industrial use! Looking at store bought splitters they have way less oil capacity.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 4, 2013)

I can fit a 12 gallon tank in the frame now and the cylinder holds 1 to 1.25 gallons so if I put 10 gallons in there that gives me 3 to 3.25 gallons of head space in the tank... I think it will work. Mind you I'm not the fastest splitter in the west or mid-west as the case may be and I take frequent naps just for good measure.

View attachment 277305


John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 5, 2013)

Just in case someone is watching here is today's progress...

View attachment 277488


John


----------



## triptester (Feb 5, 2013)

Looking good.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 5, 2013)

Thanks,

I just got the hydraulic tank fittings, suction strainer, return filter and vent cap today... the order status for the cylinder changed from back ordered to pending so that is a good sign.

Unfortunately I will get side tracked for a bit on the splitter as I have two automatics to build now.

John


----------



## iowa (Feb 5, 2013)

I'm always watching and love the build thread! Thanks!


----------



## jthornton (Feb 6, 2013)

Status update on the cylinder, shipped! I dug around and found some castors with 250x4 tires for the front wheels. I have a few more ideas floating around in my head... the tongue will pivot up for storage and the castors will permit easy parking when not in use.

John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 8, 2013)

Got a bit more work done on the retractable castors for moving the splitter about when not in use.

View attachment 278044
View attachment 278045


Cylinder is due to arrive Monday...

John


----------



## iowa (Feb 8, 2013)

Good idear!


----------



## dave_dj1 (Feb 8, 2013)

Pretty slick idea! I have some similar mounts I took off a pop up camper, maybe I could use them. Now if you make them hydraulic, that would be awesome.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 9, 2013)

Now your going a bit out there with hydraulic castors... anyway they are installed.

View attachment 278254
View attachment 278255


On to the beam and or engine/pump mount.

John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 11, 2013)

Started in on the main beam. Bent the 1/4" x 4" cap for the beam extension.

And the cylinder is due today 

View attachment 278645


John


----------



## Steve NW WI (Feb 11, 2013)

That sure don't look like torch and sledgehammer metal forming. What'd you use to bend it?


----------



## jthornton (Feb 11, 2013)

Steve NW WI said:


> That sure don't look like torch and sledgehammer metal forming. What'd you use to bend it?



One each of these...











John


----------



## Steve NW WI (Feb 11, 2013)

Nice. I'm spoiled. Where I work we have brake presses up to 350 tons. Sometimes I can con em into a "government project". Otherwise, I use the aforementioned torch & sledge method if it needs fixed NOW.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 11, 2013)

Steve NW WI said:


> Nice. I'm spoiled. Where I work we have brake presses up to 350 tons. Sometimes I can con em into a "government project". Otherwise, I use the aforementioned torch & sledge method if it needs fixed NOW.



My torch set is a weak link in my tool chain for sure and the tiny rosebud I have will hardly get 1/4" thick cherry red. So the press is my go to tool for bending.

John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 11, 2013)

Some progress on the beam tonight...

View attachment 278713


Lion cylinder showed up  The thread size is listed as 3/4-16 which seems to be an o-ring fitting... the fittings might be fun to track down.

View attachment 278714


I have some 1" steel showing up tomorrow with some steel for some machines, I decided to order a 12" x 18" x 1" piece for the reaction plate and a 12" x 12" x 1" piece for the wedge and clevis...

John


----------



## triptester (Feb 11, 2013)

When you get a list of all the hydraulic fittings you need check out Discount hydraulic hose. I have found thier prices good and they shipped mine in a flat rate box.

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/


----------



## jthornton (Feb 12, 2013)

triptester said:


> When you get a list of all the hydraulic fittings you need check out Discount hydraulic hose. I have found their prices good and they shipped mine in a flat rate box.
> 
> DiscountHydraulicHose.com



Thanks, they have a good pdf for thread identification that made it easy to sort out what threads I have on each part.

Thanks
John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 12, 2013)

I got some 1" steel today. This is the 1" x 12" x 18" plate in position more or less on the beam.

View attachment 278801


Do you guys think it is big enough?

John


----------



## kyle1! (Feb 12, 2013)

From other builds and comments from the more knowledgeable folks that I have read you should double the thickness of that plate. Maybe overkill but you know it won't be a problem later on. I thinks Speeco uses 1 1/2" on their foot.

Brian


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 12, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I got some 1" steel today. This is the 1" x 12" x 18" plate in position more or less on the beam.
> 
> View attachment 278801
> 
> ...



From my experience , no. It will probably bend over time as crooked pieces start putting all the force on the corners. A 5 inch cylinder would bend it quick but a 4 may take some time. As you take the plate up higher you naturally compound the problem. That is why a lot of manufactured splitters have them small, less stress on stuff. 

I'd look to have some back bracing behind it, Maybe some L type brackets that weld to the Beam. This is why it is critical to get a longer Beam that you think you need. Your beam is the backbone of everything.

I know I went WAY overkill on mine but I don't think it will ever bend or break there. The Beam will go first.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 12, 2013)

I'll have some 1/2" or 3/4" plates perpendicular to the main plate on the bottom. I may cut it down to 8" above the beam...

Thanks for the comments.

John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 12, 2013)

Right now my cylinder center line is at 4 1/2" above the beam, I can go as low as 3 1/4" and have 1/2" of clearance under my cylinder. My thought process was to place the cylinder center line in the center of the splitting wedge which is 8" tall at this point.

Thoughts?

John


----------



## iowa (Feb 12, 2013)

My table is 1/2" thick hrs plate. I have a 4"x6" 1/4" wall tube cut at 45* angles and welded to the H beam and table. The plate has yet to dent or bend. Over 15 cord run through it so far.


----------



## iowa (Feb 12, 2013)

jthornton said:


> Right now my cylinder center line is at 4 1/2" above the beam, I can go as low as 3 1/4" and have 1/2" of clearance under my cylinder. My thought process was to place the cylinder center line in the center of the splitting wedge which is 8" tall at this point.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> John



No! Mount cylinder close to your beam. The further away the cylinder is, the easier it is to rip your mounting posts or foot apart. There's more leverage further out you are.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 13, 2013)

iowa said:


> No! Mount cylinder close to your beam. The further away the cylinder is, the easier it is to rip your mounting posts or foot apart. There's more leverage further out you are.



I was kinda thinking along those lines after yesterdays mock up... I went whoa there is a bunch of leverage there at 4 1/2" center line.

Do you have a photo of how you braced up your back up plate?

John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 13, 2013)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> From my experience , no. It will probably bend over time as crooked pieces start putting all the force on the corners. A 5 inch cylinder would bend it quick but a 4 may take some time. As you take the plate up higher you naturally compound the problem. That is why a lot of manufactured splitters have them small, less stress on stuff.
> 
> I'd look to have some back bracing behind it, Maybe some L type brackets that weld to the Beam. This is why it is critical to get a longer Beam that you think you need. Your beam is the backbone of everything.
> 
> I know I went WAY overkill on mine but I don't think it will ever bend or break there. The Beam will go first.



I keep looking at your photo but can't make any sense out of what is what... do you have one from a different angle?

John


----------



## mhrischuk (Feb 13, 2013)

At the same time, if your pushing the wedge from below center, the top would be constantly tilting back, adding to wear on the guides. If it was me I would center the cylinder and simply provide adequate structure behind the cylinder mount and at the bottom of the mount up front.


----------



## mhrischuk (Feb 13, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I got some 1" steel today. This is the 1" x 12" x 18" plate in position more or less on the beam.
> 
> View attachment 278801
> 
> ...



You can always weld some ribs under it to stiffen it up and not be as heavy as a solid plate.


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 13, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I keep looking at your photo but can't make any sense out of what is what... do you have one from a different angle?
> 
> John



The top of my backing plate serves as a Boom mount, the sides are an upper stabilizer mount. As I said, Overkill but all sides plus the middle of the backstop are supported in several places. It's explained in the build thread link at the bottom of all my posts. Here are some progressive pics for you.

I center mounted my cylinder to the backing plate. James at Splitez who builds them for a living reaffirmed to me that this was the correct thing to do and how he builds his.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 13, 2013)

Kevin, Thanks for the photos and I remember it now... it is stout indeed.

John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 13, 2013)

mhrischuk said:


> At the same time, if your pushing the wedge from below center, the top would be constantly tilting back, adding to wear on the guides. If it was me I would center the cylinder and simply provide adequate structure behind the cylinder mount and at the bottom of the mount up front.



This is another consideration too, but unless I'm splitting only 8" diameter logs then I assume that there will be more loading on the top of the wedge and the resultant tilting force on the slide. 

A thought just hit me that there is no reason to mount the cylinder parallel to the beam except for looks. So the fixed end could be mounted low to the beam to reduce torque on the end of the beam and the rod end mounted where ever seemed logical to even the load on the ram.

John


----------



## iowa (Feb 13, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I was kinda thinking along those lines after yesterdays mock up... I went whoa there is a bunch of leverage there at 4 1/2" center line.
> 
> Do you have a photo of how you braced up your back up plate?
> 
> John



This is a pic of my first concept, but it is the same as what I have now. I used a 4x6 x 1/4" wall tubing instead of H beam my first round. I made 2 mistakes when I first built it. I mounted the cylinder too far away from beam at 4 1/2" and used tubing to mimic TimberDevils machines. The cylinder was mounted too far out and caused a lot leverage and bent the tubing 1/4" out! 

I took the splitter apart and got an H beam. I just cut the welds from the beam and gusset. The gusset was left on the table. Just welded the table and gusset back on to new H beam.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 13, 2013)

Ok, I see what your talking about now.

Thanks
John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 13, 2013)

Got a start on the splitting wedge today...

View attachment 279010


John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 15, 2013)

This is what I'm thinking of doing for the spreaders on the splitter wedge.

View attachment 279359


I might modify it a bit to have a smaller weld area for the wings...

This is the plate that goes under the wedge.

View attachment 279360


Any thoughts?

John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 15, 2013)

I think I like this version better.

View attachment 279362


John


----------



## iowa (Feb 15, 2013)

Looks good. I used a piece of 1/4" thick angle iron on each side of the wedge to help break the wood faster. Cut one leg shorter than the other and welded caps on the end to keep it from getting junk in it, water, dirt, etc.

Why so many bolts? WOW. I have three 1/2" bolts per side. It's not like they have that much pressure on them.

I like the idea of the flat heads though!!!


----------



## jthornton (Feb 15, 2013)

iowa said:


> Looks good. I used a piece of 1/4" thick angle iron on each side of the wedge to help break the wood faster. Cut one leg shorter than the other and welded caps on the end to keep it from getting junk in it, water, dirt, etc.
> 
> Thanks, I'm slowly getting there.
> 
> ...



I didn't think of using angle and I have some 1/4" thick material on hand... 

Why so many? Because I can do it with a push of the button and it looks good so it must be good! I used 3/8" flat head socket screws so the head diameter would be smaller and easier to make the counter sink.

John


----------



## iowa (Feb 15, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I didn't think of using angle and I have some 1/4" thick material on hand...
> 
> Why so many? Because I can do it with a push of the button and it looks good so it must be good! I used 3/8" flat head socket screws so the head diameter would be smaller and easier to make the counter sink.
> 
> John



Ahh.. Gotcha. I'm all manual here. So the less holes the better!!!


----------



## iowa (Feb 15, 2013)

Here's a pic of my wedge design. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## jthornton (Feb 15, 2013)

I like it!

I made some progress on my wedge today... just gotta finish gluing that bad boy up and on to the next part.

View attachment 279384
View attachment 279385
View attachment 279386


John


----------



## dave_dj1 (Feb 15, 2013)

John, you do amazing fab work. I don't have the equipment or the patience...lol I do the best I can.

Keep up the good work and the pics.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 15, 2013)

dave_dj1 said:


> John, you do amazing fab work. I don't have the equipment or the patience...lol I do the best I can.
> 
> Keep up the good work and the pics.



Dave, thanks I've been working at it for a long time. I started out with the top shelf in a 3'x3' closet as my man cave...

Thanks
John


----------



## wndwlkr (Feb 15, 2013)

Your doing awesome work jthornton, really enjoying this thread !


----------



## jthornton (Feb 16, 2013)

Thanks

John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 17, 2013)

Didn't get to do much yesterday but finished up the wedge today. It was somewhat of a challenge to straighten out the bottom plate after welding on the 1" wedge part. I had to straighten up one side which made the other side too far, weld the wing on the straight side then straiten up the other side...

View attachment 279705


Onward with the other end of the cylinder mount...

John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 17, 2013)

Managed to get started on the clevis mount for the other end...

View attachment 279768


View attachment 279782


John


----------



## dave_dj1 (Feb 17, 2013)

Lookin' good!


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 17, 2013)

if you weren't planning to, I'd highly suggest welding some fishplates on the center of the beam where you joined it. I'd also put on a flat strap on the top of the beam under your cylinder.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 18, 2013)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> if you weren't planning to, I'd highly suggest welding some fishplates on the center of the beam where you joined it. I'd also put on a flat strap on the top of the beam under your cylinder.



I had planned on the fishplates but not a flat strap on top but rather smaller doublers under the top on each side. I'm still considering a few options to strengthen up the beam and the joint. 

Just thinking out loud the top of the beam will be under tension and the bottom under compression during the split. So the bottom will be subject to twisting forces as it gets compressed... I'm still not sure if I want to put plates perpendicular to the web of the beam or a long plate parallel to the web and at an angle to make a triangle shape out of the web and the top. I had kinda thought that I might put the small stiffeners perpendicular to the web and box in the smaller beam... maybe do that all the way that would be stiff as all get out.

John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 18, 2013)

This is where I'm at today, welding in some stiffeners on the dead end of the beam.

View attachment 279960


John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 19, 2013)

How much clearance do you guys have between the wedge and the backer plate when fully extended? Right now I have 1"...

John


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 19, 2013)

jthornton said:


> How much clearance do you guys have between the wedge and the backer plate when fully extended? Right now I have 1"...
> 
> John



I got about 1/32"  Not OSHA approved but I split everything including the stringy stuff. Easier to get away with a gap when the pusher is on the cylinder as you can push the next one though to complete the job. Just like with ANY piece of equipment, You can find many ways to get hurt if you start daydreaming.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 19, 2013)

Thanks Kevin, my wedge is on the cylinder rod so I think I whack a bit off the end of the beam.

John


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 19, 2013)

jthornton said:


> Thanks Kevin, my wedge is on the cylinder rod so I think I whack a bit off the end of the beam.
> 
> John



As the piece splits open on the style you and I have you do get a "end break" if you will. The outer edges of the split on the backstop move inward towards the wedge because it's opening up. It reaches a point when it's almost done where the 2 pieces try to go back parallel, this helps split the very end too but from experience, I still like it tight enough to sheer. Personal preference as always.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 19, 2013)

Thanks Kevin, this is what I ended up with. About 1/4" on the slide plate and 1/2" at the wedge. I did screw up and cut the 1" plate 1/2" short ( I forgot about the slide plate adding to the height of the wedge).

View attachment 280117
View attachment 280118


John


----------



## iowa (Feb 19, 2013)

I left 1/2" clearance between wedge and plate. 

Looks great!


----------



## jthornton (Feb 19, 2013)

Thanks, I made a bit more progress today on the main beam... I'm still not sure what I want to do on the splice. The top web is the most stressed part in tension. Picking that sucker up by hand is in the past now...

View attachment 280191


John


----------



## dave_dj1 (Feb 19, 2013)

Looks great man. I have an overhead hoist for the lifting along with two sets of tongs, one pointed and the other flat with teeth.
I would put a strip up under each side so as not to interfere with the slide and then a diamond shaped gusset with round corners on each side. That should cover it! LOL

I left 1 1/2" but by the time I get my slip on 4 way I should be darn near touching. In the beginning I wasn't going to have a 4 way, then I thought permanent, then came to the conclusion of a slip on.


----------



## jthornton (Feb 19, 2013)

Thanks Dave, I was thinking of using some 1/2 x 1 1/2 wide strips under the top and a scab across the middle... I'm still thinking about that. The weld bead is stronger than the base material but it makes you feel good to add the fish mouth patch.


I built a gantry to move heavy things... I think the engine hoist will do in this case if I can't use mind over matter to move it.







John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 23, 2013)

Just a little update on the beam. I'm almost done bracing up the beam, only thing left is the bits that go under the big plate. Then on the the mount on the frame.

View attachment 280891


John


----------



## jthornton (Feb 27, 2013)

Got some more done on the splitter beam today... almost done with the beam only the joint to strengthen up a bit and it is ready for some paint.

View attachment 281818
View attachment 281819
View attachment 281820


Thanks
John


----------



## dave_dj1 (Feb 27, 2013)

That's some beef right there!
I can't wait to see it in operation.


----------



## Rudolf73 (Feb 27, 2013)

Hmmm, I don't think you are going to bend it anytime soon...

Nice build though!


----------



## wndwlkr (Feb 27, 2013)

Super nice fab work, Looks real good, Awesome job. can't wait to see it completed. :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## jthornton (Feb 28, 2013)

Thanks, I can't wait to see it done too. That beam sure got heavy when I added the 1" plate and the bracing and pivot plates under it. I'm feeling better about the strength of the beam now.

Thanks
John


----------



## jthornton (Mar 1, 2013)

I was hoping to weld the support pivots to the trailer today but ran out of time. I did get the holes machined in the tubing and I'm real close to gluing them on... those are 1 1/4" SS pins that I scrounged from my neighbor.

View attachment 282238


John


----------



## funloven (Mar 1, 2013)

My home built spliter design. Built out of a old cotton module builder
View attachment 282253


----------



## wndwlkr (Mar 1, 2013)

I like it ! Plus you got a good helper. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## dave_dj1 (Mar 1, 2013)

funlovin, that is quite the set up, even have a helper


----------



## funloven (Mar 1, 2013)

Would of split quite a few hundred tons with the splitter now and it works a treat my helper is a year older now too.


----------



## jthornton (Mar 2, 2013)

funloven said:


> My home built spliter design. Built out of a old cotton module builder



I bet it is easy on the back with the splitter at that height.

John


----------



## jthornton (Mar 2, 2013)

Got the beam mount done today, I just have to hit the holes with the adjustable reamer a bit and it is ready to weld to the trailer frame.

View attachment 282361


John


----------



## jthornton (Mar 3, 2013)

Made some more progress today. I got the beam mounted to the frame and stood it up with the engine hoist. It's not that heavy but with the frame not attached to an unmovable object I was just being careful.

I made a couple of decisions today after raising it up, while it is plenty stable I'm putting manual outriggers on the back. The second thing is I'm going to use a hydraulic jack like the engine hoist to raise and lower the beam.

View attachment 282497
View attachment 282498
View attachment 282499
View attachment 282500


Edit: I guess I'll have to be clever as the long stroke jacks are for vertical use only...

Thanks for watching...
John


----------



## Stihlman441 (Mar 3, 2013)

Something a bit different an Ozzy made splitter.

[video=youtube;tRiYt0AQK8o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRiYt0AQK8o[/video]


----------



## Jakers (Mar 3, 2013)

jthornton said:


> The second thing is I'm going to use a hydraulic jack like the engine hoist to raise and lower the beam.
> 
> 
> Edit: I guess I'll have to be clever as the long stroke jacks are for vertical use only...
> ...



they are "designed" for only vertical use but they work fine on their side too. just make sure you set it up so the pump side is down in the horizontal position. or maybe just make it hook into the splitter hyd system. not really a big deal to have to start the motor to raise up your beam. 

lookin great so far. keep up the good work. im really interested to see how it works. never seen a splitter built like it before


----------



## jthornton (Mar 3, 2013)

Jakers said:


> they are "designed" for only vertical use but they work fine on their side too. just make sure you set it up so the pump side is down in the horizontal position. or maybe just make it hook into the splitter hyd system. not really a big deal to have to start the motor to raise up your beam.
> 
> lookin great so far. keep up the good work. im really interested to see how it works. never seen a splitter built like it before



The detent valve said to no have pressure on the outlet side so I assume if you plumb an open center valve in front of the detent valve that would work.

I'm going to try an keep the angle to 45° or less if I can. The long stroke jacks are very cost effective at ~$60 or so.

I've never seen one like that before either and can't wait to see it work.

Thanks for the support
John


----------



## iowa (Mar 3, 2013)

I love my vertical style table splitter! And you will too! 

Nice work BTW and great idea on the jack cyl! Will save a lot of mone.


----------



## Rudolf73 (Mar 3, 2013)

Are you going to have more than one hydraulic circuit in you system? If you are, you could just put in a small lift cylinder seeing as you already have hydraulic power on the splitter. Even easier on the back


----------



## jthornton (Mar 4, 2013)

Rudolf73 said:


> Are you going to have more than one hydraulic circuit in you system? If you are, you could just put in a small lift cylinder seeing as you already have hydraulic power on the splitter. Even easier on the back



For now I'm going to try and fit a long stroke jack or a bottle jack in there as it is cheaper than a valve. 

John


----------



## jthornton (Mar 5, 2013)

So far I've not hatched the proper idea to raise the beam up with a jack... not enough stroke on bottle jacks and long stroke jacks like used on engine hoists are too long. Here it is mounted up on the trailer minus the tongue part.

View attachment 282881


Edit: I did a test with an 8 ton bottle jack at 10" from the pivot and it lifts it up easy.

View attachment 282888


John


----------



## nathon918 (Mar 5, 2013)

jthornton said:


> So far I've not hatched the proper idea to raise the beam up with a jack... not enough stroke on bottle jacks and long stroke jacks like used on engine hoists are too long. Here it is mounted up on the trailer minus the tongue part.
> 
> View attachment 282881
> 
> ...



nice bessey's:msp_thumbup:


----------



## brenndatomu (Mar 5, 2013)

Just throwing out an idea here. Could you come up with an arrangement to use the splitter cyl. itself to raise and lower the beam?
My first thought was using a chain pinned to the wedge and the trailer, but after studying the pics maybe not?


----------



## jthornton (Mar 5, 2013)

brenndatomu said:


> Just throwing out an idea here. Could you come up with an arrangement to use the splitter cyl. itself to raise and lower the beam?
> My first thought was using a chain pinned to the wedge and the trailer, but after studying the pics maybe not?



I just came back from a mind clearing hike in the woods with my trusty side kick Cocoa and had the same sort of idea. I plan on having a log lift so if I make the log lift stand alone then the cable attached to the wedge can go over a sheave on the unstucker thing that the wedge retracts into and attach to the log lift. Lower the wedge to raise up the beam...

View attachment 282901


Edit: that photo is not from today!

John


----------



## jthornton (Mar 6, 2013)

A friend from England came up with the mechanics on his lunch break that puts the bottle jack back in the picture :msp_thumbup:

[video=youtube;5vmdg-XXLYc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vmdg-XXLYc&feature=youtu.be[/video]

John


----------



## iowa (Mar 6, 2013)

There ya go... Damn foreigners think of everything!!!! LOL. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## jthornton (Mar 6, 2013)

So this is what I came up with after looking at my friends model he sent me. I'll have to play with the geometry some to tweak it so I can reach the pump handle. The pump would be down and the vent would be up when the beam is down so that should work ok.

View attachment 283041
View attachment 283042


John


----------



## Kevin in Ohio (Mar 6, 2013)

Before committing to making the pieces I'd try the bottle jack at that angle under load. I've seen them get "moody" when you do that. Not all of them will work as intended so it's better to be safe than sorry. Don't ask me how I know


----------



## dave_dj1 (Mar 6, 2013)

I say avoid the bottle jack and get a cylinder, even a single acting cyl with a hand pump or tap into your hydraulics. Does the bottle jack have enough throw? 
Keep up the good work.


----------



## Jakers (Mar 6, 2013)

jthornton said:


> So this is what I came up with after looking at my friends model he sent me. I'll have to play with the geometry some to tweak it so I can reach the pump handle. The pump would be down and the vent would be up when the beam is down so that should work ok.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



kinda like a backhoe uses


----------



## jthornton (Mar 7, 2013)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> Before committing to making the pieces I'd try the bottle jack at that angle under load. I've seen them get "moody" when you do that. Not all of them will work as intended so it's better to be safe than sorry. Don't ask me how I know



I share the same concern as you for the angle of the bottle jack. I did some experiments with one and if the pump side is down it seems to work better but I didn't test it under load. A cylinder and a pump would be much better. I've even had thoughts of tearing a bottle jack apart to remove the pump...

John


----------



## jthornton (Mar 7, 2013)

dave_dj1 said:


> I say avoid the bottle jack and get a cylinder, even a single acting cyl with a hand pump or tap into your hydraulics. Does the bottle jack have enough throw?
> Keep up the good work.



Actually the mechanics reduce the throw needed to about 4", I may end up with a simple cylinder I'm unsure at this point. If I can steal the pump from a bottle jack and use that on a single acting cylinder that would be the best of both worlds I think.

John


----------



## jthornton (Mar 7, 2013)

Jakers said:


> kinda like a backhoe uses



The lever on the backhoe is a simple lever, the one my friend came up with is a compound lever. I did go outside and stare at my backhoe boom for a while during the thought process for sure...

John


----------



## jthornton (Mar 10, 2013)

I'm having a Kiss idea floating around in my head... put tee's in the hydraulic lines to the split cylinder and put needle valves with some small hoses going to a cylinder to raise the beam. So open the needle valves and bottom out the split cylinder and after that the flow goes to the cylinder to raise the beam... any thoughts on this idea?

Thanks
John


----------



## mhrischuk (Mar 10, 2013)

Pressure might be too much while splitting.


----------



## jthornton (Mar 10, 2013)

mhrischuk said:


> Pressure might be too much while splitting.



On the needle valves? They are rated at 6,000 lbs of oil gas steam...

John


----------



## Jakers (Mar 10, 2013)

Surplus Center - 1" NPT 40 GPM SINGLE SELECTOR VALVE CROSS VS4BKLF7








Its rated at 40GPM with one inch inlet and outlets. could easily switch between the two circuits with separate valves and everything. or for a few more bucks you could go with the double ones and use your same valve. kinda nice to be able to just pull a knob and the same valve works for two different functions


----------



## jthornton (Mar 23, 2013)

I have been side tracked with this:
View attachment 286287


This is the splitter:
View attachment 286288


John


----------



## iowa (Mar 29, 2013)

You gonna get this thing done so you can use it soon? Or waiting till fall??? :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## jthornton (Mar 29, 2013)

iowa said:


> You gonna get this thing done so you can use it soon? Or waiting till fall??? :hmm3grin2orange:



I did get the BlueWing back together and have the engine/pump mount firmly in my sights... probably start on that this weekend.

John


----------



## jthornton (Apr 23, 2013)

Somehow I started replying to an old thread of mine, sorry for the confusion.

JT


----------



## Jakers (Apr 23, 2013)

at least you know somebody reads your posts. i find your design and engineering to be amazing. not much to comment on so i just lurk in the shadows


----------



## jthornton (Apr 24, 2013)

Thanks, I'm glad someone is reading them... I can see that the outriggers for the back and the tongue will be the next thing to build. For space saving reasons I'm making the 2 1/2" square tube for the tongue removable. I'm still up in the air about how to mount the outriggers in the back.

John


----------



## jthornton (Apr 27, 2013)

I finally decided how I want to rig up the outriggers in the back. I used channel instead of angle for the rear fender support and put the jack on the channel. I positioned it so when folded up it does not stick out past the tire.

View attachment 292605
View attachment 292606


John


----------



## Jakers (Apr 27, 2013)

jthornton said:


> I finally decided how I want to rig up the outriggers in the back. I used channel instead of angle for the rear fender support and put the jack on the channel. I positioned it so when folded up it does not stick out past the tire.
> 
> View attachment 292605
> View attachment 292606
> ...



not a bad idea. looks good.


----------



## jthornton (Apr 27, 2013)

Thanks, in practice I will find out if they are in the way or not. I pondered a bit about that and said what the heck I'll give it a try.

Thanks
John


----------

