# My First Youtube Video!



## Nailsbeats (Mar 4, 2009)

After a good struggle I finally completed and aired my first video. It's a White Oak removal we did by a house and pool. A GRCS was used for most of the rigging and I had the Spiderjack II and a friction saver with a pulley and a krab on the climbing system. Check it out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6_igIaMqYE


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## scott t (Mar 4, 2009)

Very nice man .... Good job :rockn:


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## Toddppm (Mar 4, 2009)

Good video, who took it? They had a good idea of when to zoom in and out so we can see the interesting parts.

I never realized how quick the GRCS can crank up a piece, hmmmmm...


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## TDunk (Mar 4, 2009)

Cool beans Nails.:rockn:


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## (WLL) (Mar 4, 2009)

keep e'm commin Nails, practise makes perfection where ya get the suspenders?


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 4, 2009)

Toddppm said:


> Good video, who took it? They had a good idea of when to zoom in and out so we can see the interesting parts.
> 
> I never realized how quick the GRCS can crank up a piece, hmmmmm...


 

My wife took the video and I put it together for Youtube. I told her to try to get everything and she did a great job. I trust her behind a camera, she has an eye for it.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 4, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> keep e'm commin Nails, practise makes perfection where ya get the suspenders?



I think I got them from an arborist supply shop in Minneapolis, I won't mention names cause I don't know if it's legal.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks for the positive feedback so far guys. I appreciate it comming from ya'll.


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## capetrees (Mar 4, 2009)

Looks good but please be wearing you thick skin tonight as everyone will start to pick apart your technique. opcorn:


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## MerleM (Mar 4, 2009)

*Nice!*

Great video. Cool soundtrack, too.

Good Job!


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## tree MDS (Mar 4, 2009)

Not bad nails.

I think I saw the spider in action at one point, Correct? if so it looked like it picked the slack right up on its own eh??

I'm not completely sold on the grcs yet (even though I got one), I wont trust that tthing until I know I can rope a 1000+ lbs log down over the roof and let it run (with the winch on). Do any of you guys use it like this or do you have to switch to the bollard for this??

Oh yeah, the soundtrack was gay. lol.


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## JONSEREDFAN6069 (Mar 4, 2009)

awesome job brotha!!!!!!!!!


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## Marty B (Mar 4, 2009)

*Nice Video!!!*

Nice and smooth....good technique, and you missed the dish!! Nice flat drops on your jump cuts and the ground crew did a nice job by not shocking the gear. What was the elapsed time? Did you clean it all up?


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## Metals406 (Mar 4, 2009)

Nice removal and video Nails!! Rep sent.


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## LTREES (Mar 4, 2009)

Nice and smooth. great groundies, priceless !!!


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## TreeTopKid (Mar 4, 2009)

Looking forward to watching when I get home Nails. I'm at work don't think Iim supposed to go to you tube...... I always feel like someone is watching meee!


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 4, 2009)

hey man that was really nice i tried to give you rep but i can't . it looks really cold your wife must really like you to stand for the video mine would have told me to bring the tripod . if anyone talks#### than there a #######. my only complaint is why such a nice tree too bad.


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## Rickytree (Mar 4, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Not bad nails.
> 
> I think I saw the spider in action at one point, Correct? if so it looked like it picked the slack right up on its own eh??
> 
> ...



I put alot more than a 1000 pound on mine and I works just fine. Just watch the rope doesn't go over itself on the winch. Groundie did that to me once or twice. Hey Nails no chainsaw pants, one handed cuts, no two point attachment? Just kidding good job! I really like the GRCS for taking up slack and doing rip cuts. Keep them comin!!


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## M.D. Vaden (Mar 4, 2009)

Came out pretty good.

Fun picking a music theme, isn't it.


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## ozzy42 (Mar 4, 2009)

Very nice video


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 4, 2009)

Marty B said:


> Nice and smooth....good technique, and you missed the dish!! Nice flat drops on your jump cuts and the ground crew did a nice job by not shocking the gear. What was the elapsed time? Did you clean it all up?



That job took 2 hrs. from when we pulled in to when we left. We didn't clean it up, the owner was going to make it into firewood where it sat. All we did was block up the spar cause his saw wasn't big enough.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 4, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Not bad nails.
> 
> I think I saw the spider in action at one point, Correct? if so it looked like it picked the slack right up on its own eh??
> 
> ...



Yes MDS, the Spider lets the line fall right through it on ascent. The GRCS can be lowered either way, winch or bollard. It's something you have to play with, and if your ground help isn't sharp you will have problems.


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## Treetom (Mar 4, 2009)

Good job, nails. Looking forward to some shots from your point of view.


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## masiman (Mar 4, 2009)

Nice vid nails.

At the start, were you going up without lanyard? Looked quick, I've never tried that and I'm probably too chicken to do that.

That tree looked like red oak to me based on the color and bark, not the white oak I am used to. But it could very well be that I really don't know what white oak is 

2 hours is good time compared to how long I think it would have taken me.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 4, 2009)

Treetom said:


> Good job, nails. Looking forward to some shots from your point of view.



Sounds like you're hinting at the helmet cam. Maybe someday, but for now I will let the wife do it, then I don't have to have more gear on me or distractions.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 4, 2009)

masiman said:


> Nice vid nails.
> 
> At the start, were you going up without lanyard? Looked quick, I've never tried that and I'm probably too chicken to do that.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I was. 

Oak schmoak, it's all good wood!


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## teamtree (Mar 4, 2009)

Gotta love climbing in carhartt bibs....

great video and nice work!!!!1


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## epicklein22 (Mar 4, 2009)

Looking good. Nice progression and very smooth. I like the use of the humboldt.

We need some love for the groundies too. I saw at least 3 guys on the ground. 

Must be nice having that many guys. For that kind of job, we run 1, maybe 2 guys on the ground. Makes for hard work when the other groundie sucks. I always seem to be in that position.


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## Mikecutstrees (Mar 4, 2009)

Nice job. GRCS was working nice too. Maybe next year I'll get one sure would work nice of removals over houses. Cool video!


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## TreeTopKid (Mar 4, 2009)

Love your work Nails! I can't believe you've got a GRCS! You seem to have every toy that I ever think about getting! I would love to see some close ups of it in action although it looks like it works very well. You have now become my benchmark for toy aquisitions!


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## A. Stanton (Mar 4, 2009)

Nice video and music: good yob.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 4, 2009)

epicklein22 said:


> Looking good. Nice progression and very smooth. I like the use of the humboldt.
> 
> We need some love for the groundies too. I saw at least 3 guys on the ground.
> 
> Must be nice having that many guys. For that kind of job, we run 1, maybe 2 guys on the ground. Makes for hard work when the other groundie sucks. I always seem to be in that position.



I had my dad and brother on the ground, both climbers and good tree guys. The third wheel there was the homeowner. He is a good old boy that couldn't get enough of the action. He wanted to be all up in those limbs comming down, lol. 

If you look to the far end of the house there is another White Oak a little bigger, we are taking that down next year.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 4, 2009)

TreeTopKid said:


> Love your work Nails! I can't believe you've got a GRCS! You seem to have every toy that I ever think about getting! I would love to see some close ups of it in action although it looks like it works very well. You have now become my benchmark for toy aquisitions!



I am a sucker for tree gear. I have tried denying it, but it's no use. It's all fun stuff.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 4, 2009)

I feel like I need to say it again, I appreciate the love fella's.


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## oldirty (Mar 4, 2009)

nice work man.


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## Rftreeman (Mar 4, 2009)

nice work there nails, when will we see more?


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## Slvrmple72 (Mar 5, 2009)

You NAILED IT!!! Very nice work. You got a good videographer, I would keep her, but you already know that!


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## windsong (Mar 5, 2009)

*White Oak Removal*

Thanks for going through the trouble of doing the video. It was great. I look forward to the next one. Keep em' coming.


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## Raymond (Mar 5, 2009)

Yep you did good. And yes the music was a nice touch. 

MAN I wanna make a video now!


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## outofmytree (Mar 5, 2009)

Wow. Nice clean work and done in 2 hours!

Great vid all round mate. I got a couple of ideas from that for a job tomorrow. Now if only there was a GRCS lying around here somewhere.....


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## tree MDS (Mar 5, 2009)

I am gonna echo what masiman said about the no lanyard going up, very unprofessional and needlessly dangerous. It dont take far to break a leg, and then no more fun.

Just something to think about, thats all.


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## Rftreeman (Mar 5, 2009)

masiman said:


> Nice vid nails.
> That tree looked like red oak to me based on the color and bark, not the white oak I am used to. But it could very well be that I really don't know what white oak is


It's a white oak, the video makes the bark look funny but you can tell by the lighter collor outer rings and darker center of the wood, red oak doesn't have that on any I've seen around here.


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## JeffL (Mar 5, 2009)

I'll be the #####.

You did more one handing in that one removal than my entire company does in an entire year combined. Yes, I practice what I preach.

Otherwise, nice job, that GRCS is pretty slick, would love to have the opportunity to work with one. Heck, I'm lucky to even talk anyone at work into setting up a 3:1 or 5:1 for lifting branches if the need arises.

Video is great too, your wife did a good job. Alot better than most you see, with random zooming, shaking, jumping, as if they were trying to video an earthquake or something.


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## brushbandit (Mar 5, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> That job took 2 hrs. from when we pulled in to when we left. We didn't clean it up, the owner was going to make it into firewood where it sat. All we did was block up the spar cause his saw wasn't big enough.



2 hours curb to curb? Is the battery in your watch going?


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## Blazin (Mar 5, 2009)

Nice job!


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## treemandan (Mar 5, 2009)

Looks as though the saws were cutting good. I liked the song too.


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## TreeTopKid (Mar 5, 2009)

brushbandit said:


> 2 hours curb to curb? Is the battery in your watch going?



The video looked pretty much real time to me, and his ground crew were on the case.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 5, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> nice work there nails, when will we see more?



Hard to say RF, nothing planned yet, but I have some ideas.


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## TheKid (Mar 5, 2009)

*where's the mill??!!*

you got to drop that nice, big stick and it's firewood? no mill? job well done though.


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## fishercat (Mar 5, 2009)

*Nice work!*

real smooth!

glad you got that politically correct helmet for the shoot!

i say if you're comfortable one handing,go for it.i do it a lot more than you did.

i have a feeling it goes on a lot more with the guys who poo poo it than we know.


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## woodchux (Mar 5, 2009)

i one hand my ass off when im flyin the bucket... really saves on having to lower everything. i do watch my positioning carefully though...


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## boltonranger (Mar 5, 2009)

*Very Nice.*

You and your crew made it look easy.
Really enjoyed the video.
Great Job.  
-br


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## Rftreeman (Mar 5, 2009)

while we're talking about one handing the saw I'll say this, Using one hand on the top handle saws is like carrying a loaded gun in your pocket, do it right and theres nothing to worry about........


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## Raymond (Mar 6, 2009)

I am so guilty of one handing my 023 even. Only when it can be thrown out in front of me or reaching down letting it hang though.


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## John464 (Mar 6, 2009)

cool vid man and nice job!


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 6, 2009)

fishercat said:


> real smooth!
> 
> glad you got that politically correct helmet for the shoot!
> 
> ...



:agree2:

I've had that helmet over a year now and really like it. I did some sanding on the head gear and turned a rivet around so it locks on and fits comfortable now.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 6, 2009)

TheKid said:


> you got to drop that nice, big stick and it's firewood? no mill? job well done though.



The guy wanted firewood. I guess he figured he wouldn't have to carry it far, lol.:greenchainsaw:


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## TreeBot (Mar 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I am gonna echo what masiman said about the no lanyard going up, very unprofessional and needlessly dangerous.



Nails get a rope through a fork and have one of your groundies give you a belay off of the GRCS (or on a figure 8 clipped to their saddle or to webbing loopie around their waste), that way you can still freestyle it up the tree without as much risk.

As for the oak video, a job well done, especially the camera work!


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 6, 2009)

TreeBot said:


> Nails get a rope through a fork and have one of your groundies give you a belay off of the GRCS (or on a figure 8 clipped to their saddle or to webbing loopie around their waste), that way you can still freestyle it up the tree without as much risk.
> 
> As for the oak video, a job well done, especially the camera work!



That is a good technique, I actually have video of me climbing up a 5' Silver Maple that way. Just make sure the groundman doesn't pull you off your spikes.

I always try to get my brother to take me up on the GRCS, but I don't think he wants to crank that much while I ride in style. We have a drill you can mounts on the GRSC for effortless pulling, but have never used it yet. That would be like a powered ascender.


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## TreeBot (Mar 6, 2009)

LOL I got a few free rides up on the GRCS too, when I first got it. Then I realized that it is way harder on the groundies arms to crank me up than it is on my legs to climb. I don't have the drill and attachment for it yet.


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## murphy4trees (Mar 6, 2009)

The drill will not lift a man if it is natural crotched doubled line... You need to set a pulley and even then it is highly underpowered, without a little help from the climber... I think I was around 170 when I last tried it. 

I personally don't criticize another climber for one handing a saw in certain situations.. Though I do believe that it should be mandatory for every new climber to be trained to keep two hands on the saw. I actually have heard of one minor cut to the hand caused by two handing, when the climber was trying to keep two hands on the saw then catch the limb real quick before it fell... We;ve been all through the subject in a previous thread as I recall.

OSHA does not apply to me as I AM self employed. I thinik ANSI guidlines are a reall goood idea to follow in most situations.. Though not all... See the one handing a chainsaw thread.. It can be done safely if you know what you are doing and don't make a mental error.. That said I did recently hear of a highly experieinced bucket operator catching a 200t in the face... No doubt he was one handing it... I'll post more on that after I talk to him and get the facts straight.

Good for you to put that tree on the ground in 2 hours... So don't take this the wrong way... it is often easier to point out mistakes as a way of learning what not to do, rather than pionting out what you did right... which speaks for itself...

Some one earlier mentioned "liking the humboldt"... Well the humboldt is the WRONG falling cut for that situation. It would be different if you were milling the log... That drop calls for an open face notch, top cut first. No need to go deep from the look of it either.. Fast, easy, accurate, reliable... (once again I sense "my smug and condescending attitude" coming through) Maybe I could word it different or pose it as a question or something, and I call like I see it ... That is just the plain truth of it... Learn from it or ignore it as you will.

Keep up the good work.. stay safe...


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## tree MDS (Mar 6, 2009)

Yep, I was gonna say something about the humbolt too, but I knew nails just wanted to show off every fancy trick he could on that vid - nothing really wrong with that, treeguys will be treeguys. lol.

I cant do a humbolt to save my life though, real awkward for me and my accuracy goes way off (kind of like just starting out). I have used it in the past to try and get something to jump a stone wall and such. There is a place for it in residential treework, just rarely imo.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 6, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> The drill will not lift a man if it is natural crotched doubled line... You need to set a pulley and even then it is highly underpowered, without a little help from the climber... I think I was around 170 when I last tried it.
> 
> I personally don't criticize another climber for one handing a saw in certain situations.. Though I do believe that it should be mandatory for every new climber to be trained to keep two hands on the saw. I actually have heard of one minor cut to the hand caused by two handing, when the climber was trying to keep two hands on the saw then catch the limb real quick before it fell... We;ve been all through the subject in a previous thread as I recall.
> 
> ...



Murphy, the guy wanted firewood and got a good, flat, symetrical butt piece, that'll stand nice for him as he splits it with a maul. The depth of the notch was to make it a little easier for the guys pulling.


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## frodo (Mar 6, 2009)

why didn't you just drop the whole tree where you were sending all those branches? good job though. those techniques come in real handy when you need them. that spider jack is sweet.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 6, 2009)

frodo said:


> why didn't you just drop the whole tree where you were sending all those branches? good job though. those techniques come in real handy when you need them. that spider jack is sweet.



It wouldn't fit without damaging nearby trees.


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## murphy4trees (Mar 6, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Murphy, the guy wanted firewood and got a good, flat, symetrical butt piece, that'll stand nice for him as he splits it with a maul. The depth of the notch was to make it a little easier for the guys pulling.



OK that makes sense then... And I'd call that good customer service.. cause if it was me, he'd be dealing with the open face notch on the butt cut... He'd have had more wood too though, as it could have been cut a good bit lower with an open face... and with the pull line, and all that open space for a drop zone... the open face could have been 6" deep or less and still been 100% reliable with a good back cut... So it wouldn;t have been much of a factor in dealing with the wood... 

And I guess what I really think is that the humboldt is just so much harder to cut, matching up the cuts and all on the upward sloping cut... a major hassle... That's just me though.. Loggers seem to have no problem with it.. I AM just an arborist..


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## treemandan (Mar 6, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> OK that makes sense then... And I'd call that good customer service.. cause if it was me, he'd be dealing with the open face notch on the butt cut... He'd have had more wood too though, as it could have been cut a good bit lower with an open face... and with the pull line, and all that open space for a drop zone... the open face could have been 6" deep or less and still been 100% reliable with a good back cut... So it wouldn;t have been much of a factor in dealing with the wood...
> 
> And I guess what I really think is that the humboldt is just so much harder to cut, matching up the cuts and all on the upward sloping cut... a major hassle... That's just me though.. Loggers seem to have no problem with it.. I AM just an arborist..



Dan? Can I ask you a question? Good, here goes: What in the hell are you talking about?
That whole " the humbolt is WRONG" thing? The rest don't make to much sense to me either. HUH?


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## treemandan (Mar 6, 2009)

Oh and thanks again for that oak log Murhpy, I am burning it up right now... been burning it for quite some time now.


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## murphy4trees (Mar 10, 2009)

The few benefits of the humboldt rarely outweigh its liabilities in suburban arboriculture.. Used by loggers to reduce breakage during the fall and also to leave a clean but log with no need to make another finish cut, the humboldt is useful in cases where log value is a concern... or in this case where nails was leaving a full round of firewood on the but... 

The open face (when made properly) is much easier to make and easier to gun, and far harder to mismatch cuts on, and when combined with a good back cut, is equally as effective at preventing the log from kicking back, which is also rarely a concern in falling backyard trees.

Anyone cutting a humboldt on a regular basis in suburban arboriculture has not been properly trained.. 

ps got another oak behind a gate.. standing dead in wayne coming down soon..


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## NetreeLady (Mar 10, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> The few benefits of the humboldt rarely outweigh its liabilities in suburban arboriculture.. Used by loggers to reduce breakage during the fall and also to leave a clean but log with no need to make another finish cut, the humboldt is useful in cases where log value is a concern... or in this case where nails was leaving a full round of firewood on the but...
> 
> The open face (when made properly) is much easier to make and easier to gun, and far harder to mismatch cuts on, and when combined with a good back cut, is equally as effective at preventing the log from kicking back, which is also rarely a concern in falling backyard trees.
> 
> ...



You're kidding, right?


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## joesawer (Mar 10, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> The few benefits of the humboldt rarely outweigh its liabilities in suburban arboriculture.. Used by loggers to reduce breakage during the fall and also to leave a clean but log with no need to make another finish cut, the humboldt is useful in cases where log value is a concern... or in this case where nails was leaving a full round of firewood on the but...
> 
> The open face (when made properly) is much easier to make and easier to gun, and far harder to mismatch cuts on, and when combined with a good back cut, is equally as effective at preventing the log from kicking back, which is also rarely a concern in falling backyard trees.
> 
> ...





Maybe you have not been trained right. Just because you have trouble with it does not make it wrong for everyone.


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## murphy4trees (Mar 10, 2009)

Joe and Elisabeth,
I thought I might get some bites on that statememt...

Humboldt in my experience is used by fallers, either that have been trained in loggging operations or trained by a logger. So they use the homboldt because they have been trained that way. What other reason is there? 

Make your argument.. I have made mine... Oh and BTW it's not really mine... It's Tim Ard's and other pro teachers...

Why cut the humboldt... it's harder to make... easier to make a mistake on.. harder to get the gun perfect etc... 

I think this is a good teaching piece for everyone here. Just becasue a technique is right in the woods, doesn't make it right in the backyard... This is a very important concept for the suburban arborist to understand... Blindly following the lead of loggers is a MISTAKE!


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## treemandan (Mar 10, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> The few benefits of the humboldt rarely outweigh its liabilities in suburban arboriculture.. Used by loggers to reduce breakage during the fall and also to leave a clean but log with no need to make another finish cut, the humboldt is useful in cases where log value is a concern... or in this case where nails was leaving a full round of firewood on the but...
> 
> The open face (when made properly) is much easier to make and easier to gun, and far harder to mismatch cuts on, and when combined with a good back cut, is equally as effective at preventing the log from kicking back, which is also rarely a concern in falling backyard trees.
> 
> ...




Well if its easier you are looking for... then get someone else to do it. What could be easier than that No, no, just a joke. I know its better if you just do it yourself.

I put a humbolt on this which I thought a good choice. I notched it 5 feet above the ground. 






I was figuring to get the butt on the ground first, worked well. I don't think any other notch would have fit the bill. You?




I wouldn't say I use the humbo all the time but use it regularly. It seems easier in the tree with a 20 to cut a humbo with the top of the bar and let it fly. Sometimes in this situation it doesn't matter you just need a notch and if its upside down its fine.
I do also agree the open face is right on. I use that a lot to but mostly if I am cutting the trunk close to the ground I cut the notch as low as possible but very wide which kinda acts like open faced pastrami on rye. Now you are down on the mainline so you should know how good those sandwhiches can be. (sorry, its tough, I know.)


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## B-Edwards (Mar 10, 2009)

I couldn't tell, did your ground guys have hard hats on? Also by the clothes you were wearing you looked to be a pretty boy who has to dress nice and to look at your equipment you are one of those guys that may be OCD as it looks like it is kept up and well taken care of. I wouldn't call you on that stuff but that's the way I like to operate myself . The ground guys did a very nice job by not stressing your stuff and seems they helped you alot by controlling the stuff and keeping it from reacting in a way as to hit you. I liked your climbing gear as well you were able to be very fluid in your movements because of it. I rate the vid (and I am being very picky) 1-10 as a 7 mainly because the you need a High Def camera and more sun . Over-all it kicked ass and the music fit just right.


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## treemandan (Mar 10, 2009)

B-Edwards said:


> I couldn't tell, did your ground guys have hard hats on? Also by the clothes you were wearing you looked to be a pretty boy who has to dress nice and to look at your equipment you are one of those guys that may be OCD as it looks like it is kept up and well taken care of. I wouldn't call you on that stuff but that's the way I like to operate myself . The ground guys did a very nice job by not stressing your stuff and seems they helped you alot by controlling the stuff and keeping it from reacting in a way as to hit you. I liked your climbing gear as well you were able to be very fluid in your movements because of it. I rate the vid (and I am being very picky) 1-10 as a 7 mainly because the you need a High Def camera and more sun . Over-all it kicked ass and the music fit just right.



Pretty Boy? Yup, Nails a movie star now


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 10, 2009)

B-Edwards said:


> I couldn't tell, did your ground guys have hard hats on? Also by the clothes you were wearing you looked to be a pretty boy who has to dress nice and to look at your equipment you are one of those guys that may be OCD as it looks like it is kept up and well taken care of. I wouldn't call you on that stuff but that's the way I like to operate myself . The ground guys did a very nice job by not stressing your stuff and seems they helped you alot by controlling the stuff and keeping it from reacting in a way as to hit you. I liked your climbing gear as well you were able to be very fluid in your movements because of it. I rate the vid (and I am being very picky) 1-10 as a 7 mainly because the you need a High Def camera and more sun . Over-all it kicked ass and the music fit just right.



Thanks B, it was either the Carharts or a suit.:agree2: I'll be sure to let the sun know it needs to be on the ball next time. :greenchainsaw:


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## Rftreeman (Mar 10, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Well if its easier you are looking for... then get someone else to do it. What could be easier than that No, no, just a joke. I know its better if you just do it yourself.
> 
> I put a humbolt on this which I thought a good choice. I notched it 5 feet above the ground.


Hey Dan, what's up with them stubs?


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## treemandan (Mar 10, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> Hey Dan, what's up with them stubs?



AAAAH, they are not stubs but horns and those horns are useful... as long as they are not in the way. And in this case they weren't. I didn't end up using them but sometimes I will get a choker sling at the top of a horn like that and tie in on it to work the bigger side of the crotch. Also they are good for working your way down, something to hold on to and keep your rope around. 






Now I can switch sides with everything and still have a TIP above me for the big cuts. I climb a little high on this side to allow for the limb to drop further out from the trunk, it was roped down. The other side came off a little closer to the Y but I still left a little something to keep my rope around as I rappelled.


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## Rftreeman (Mar 10, 2009)

they do make good rigging points don't they?


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## treemandan (Mar 10, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> they do make good rigging points don't they?



Just one or two is Ok but evry once in awhile I send a limb down onto one. The intervals between that happening are getting fewer and further apart... thank God.


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## outofmytree (Mar 11, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Just one or two is Ok but evry once in awhile I send a limb down onto one. The intervals between that happening are getting fewer and further apart... thank God.



Call him "ping ping piiiing, Ricochet Rabbit!!!"

If you don't recognize the quote you are still a wet-behind-the-ears juvenile.


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## joesawer (Mar 11, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> Joe and Elisabeth,
> I thought I might get some bites on that statememt...
> 
> Humboldt in my experience is used by fallers, either that have been trained in loggging operations or trained by a logger. So they use the homboldt because they have been trained that way. What other reason is there?
> ...





I have gone back and forth between tree service and logging my whole life. I know of very few people who have been able to easily move back and forth between the two. 
The main reasons are pride and prejudice. Fallers and climbers are by nature some of the hardest headed and self confident people in the world. This easily turns into arrogance and the inability to learn from any other source. Also we tend to get bombarded with alternatives that are not efficient, effective, or safe for the circumstances that apply to us, so we start to get narrow minded and hit a plateau that we will never move above.
When I first started cutting conventional face cuts, I had a hard time lining them up and making them pretty. But with practice and perseverance, they soon came to be fairly easy. The same with humbolt face cuts. It was unnatural at first but now they are just like second nature.
The proper gunning cut of either is identical, so I can not see how the conventional is easier to gun.
Tim Ard is no faller, he is awkward, inefficient and often unsafe in his methods. For me, he will remain a fine example of how not to cut.
On bigger trees the humbolt is much more energy efficient and easier to tell when your under cut gets to your gun cut.
In all reality there is very little difference in the two styles in the way they influence control over the falling tree. So little that it is almost a none issue in residential tree work.
What I see as a real issue with face cuts in residential tree work and line clearance tree workers, is the great increase of unintentional dutchmen, stray kerfs, and general lack of understanding of the basic felling cuts. 
A lot of these guys are getting some really poor training, but are completely set in their ways.


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## pdqdl (Mar 11, 2009)

I agree for the most part, especially about Tim Ard. :agree2:

Regarding "unintentional dutchmen, stray kerfs, and general lack of understanding of the basic felling cuts": I think that has more to do with laziness and poor attitude than it does with poor training. 

I figured out all on my own how to avoid those problems, many years ago. It wasn't because I was well trained, it was because I cared about how well I did my job.


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## Raymond (Mar 11, 2009)

MAN I wanna be a logger :blob4:! I can cut a dandy notch and understand how they work. And I'm all about learning something new. 

My feet are planted here pretty good but if a guy was to head your way, could he get a fallers job still? You guys working steady?


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 11, 2009)

I myself have never seen a res. tree worker cut the Humboldt, its always been the open face cut , you can control trees such as oak and maple incredibly , in fact i've stalled spars when they are at a 40 percent angle with very little hinge wood also the spar very seldomly takes that jump forward.


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## joesawer (Mar 11, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> I myself have never seen a res. tree worker cut the Humboldt, its always been the open face cut , you can control trees such as oak and maple incredibly , in fact i've stalled spars when they are at a 40 percent angle with very little hinge wood also the spar very seldomly takes that jump forward.





Stalling a spar when the face closes should be considered something to avoid. Once this happens it has to be tripped without the benefit of a face. Or a face must be re-cut in a heavy leaner standing in a precarious position.
A forward jump is not a result of a Humbolt. in fact a humbolt releases it lower and gets it to the ground quicker. 
Forward jump is a result of forward momentum breaking the hinge quickly. Forward jump is often used by fallers and skilled climbers to get the butt past obstacles. 
No forward jump would result in the butt staying on the stump or kicking back.
In spite of the current popular trend of wanting to keep the butt attached to the stump all the way to the ground. This is usually a bad thing as it greatly increases the risk of barber chair, and hang ups and leave wood under tension that must be relieved.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 11, 2009)

joesawer said:


> Stalling a spar when the face closes should be considered something to avoid. Once this happens it has to be tripped without the benefit of a face. Or a face must be re-cut in a heavy leaner standing in a precarious position.
> A forward jump is not a result of a Humbolt. in fact a humbolt releases it lower and gets it to the ground quicker.
> Forward jump is a result of forward momentum breaking the hinge quickly. Forward jump is often used by fallers and skilled climbers to get the butt past obstacles.
> No forward jump would result in the butt staying on the stump or kicking back.
> In spite of the current popular trend of wanting to keep the butt attached to the stump all the way to the ground. This is usually a bad thing as it greatly increases the risk of barber chair, and hang ups and leave wood under tension that must be relieved.



a little stall once in a while to readjust direction is just fine, often it gives the guys pulling a chance to change direction often to avoid obstactles , ilke it because the tree is now falling from less height causing less damage to the ground , it may sound crazy but it works


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## Raymond (Mar 11, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> I myself have never seen a res. tree worker cut the Humboldt, its always been the open face cut , you can control trees such as oak and maple incredibly , in fact i've stalled spars when they are at a 40 percent angle with very little hinge wood also the spar very seldomly takes that jump forward.



Never done a Humboldt notch on a trunk but I do do it up in a tree sometimes when removing leads.

What do ya call a notch that has two 45 degree cuts. Making a 90 degree angled wedge? I find myself doing that too.


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 11, 2009)

Why do you not like stalling is it because the potential of barberchairing?


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 11, 2009)

Raymond said:


> Never done a Humboldt notch on a trunk but I do do it up in a tree sometimes when removing leads.
> 
> What do ya call a notch that has two 45 degree cuts. Making a 90 degree angled wedge? I find myself doing that too.


i believe that is called a reverse humboldt but i'm not sure


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 11, 2009)

joesawer said:


> Stalling a spar when the face closes should be considered something to avoid. Once this happens it has to be tripped without the benefit of a face. Or a face must be re-cut in a heavy leaner standing in a precarious position.
> A forward jump is not a result of a Humbolt. in fact a humbolt releases it lower and gets it to the ground quicker.
> Forward jump is a result of forward momentum breaking the hinge quickly. Forward jump is often used by fallers and skilled climbers to get the butt past obstacles.
> No forward jump would result in the butt staying on the stump or kicking back.
> In spite of the current popular trend of wanting to keep the butt attached to the stump all the way to the ground. This is usually a bad thing as it greatly increases the risk of barber chair, and hang ups and leave wood under tension that must be relieved.


yea but what types of trees are you dealing with because sound hardwood trees very seldom barberchair evergreens especially leaners can be extremely dangerous when it comes to barberchairing.


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## randyg (Mar 11, 2009)

*Nice vid Nails*

You made it look EASY and thats partly due to editing but mostly due to experience, my 'hard' hat's off to you. 

What's with all this argueing about felling cuts already? Humbolt (what you used) conventional (bottom cut level, top cut at 45) or open face (both top and bottom at 45), ALL will work just fine with a non-leaning POLE and a HUGE target (pile of brush) like you had. 

We should use what we are best at, most comfortable with, and stop thinking we can do one better than anyone else can do another. 


"Pride goes before the fall."


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## woodchux (Mar 11, 2009)

I like to cut the humbolt with a polesaw...
















(just jerkin your chain Murphy):jester:


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## joesawer (Mar 11, 2009)

Raymond- There are very few if any logging jobs here for the forseeable future. 
The face cut you where asking about is commonly called an open face. A reversed humbolt is commonly called a conventional.

Pdqdl- I agree, mental laziness!

Treeclimber 101- We are about to get into advanced falling techniques, which should be avoided when there are high risk targets.
When a tree closes its face but does not break the hinge for our first time, we usually think "Cool, I cut a tree down in slow motion. Now I can look at it and admire how clever I am, I can move things out of the way or make adjustments." But after a few times I realized that I had created a problem. The tree is cut up and leaning hard. If you cut the hinge off it is very difficult to get it to release evenly and continue to fall in the desired direction. It will almost always break on one side first and swing out off the lay. 
You mentioned that it made the tree land softer. That is well and good, but an open face with a slow release would be much safer and more accurate.
You referred to pulling it off to the side to avoid things. Do you intentionally face a tree towards things you don't want to hit and then count on the face to close but the hinge to hold so that you can pull it to the side? If so I would consider this very bad practice.
Now for the advanced part. If you want to swing a tree, one of the basics is an uneven face, in the form of a dutchman or a compound angle face so that one side closes first and breaks the hinge on that side causing the tree to be swung by a one sided hinge combined with a face still open on one side to move into. this is more consistent and predictable than a closed face with a holding hinge, and is considered to be bad practice in residential tree work.

Barber chairs. I currently reside in California, but have cut timber and done storm work all over this country. If you think hard woods are not likely to barber chair you are under a fatal misconception. Some species such as sweet gum and elm have tightly woven grain and are less likely to split, but they still can and release tremendously energy. Other species such as poplar and red oak can be almost like a hair trigger. A spar that has been topped has a lot less weight to pull it over, but many time they are pulled way to hard for way to long. A long heavy leaning leader in a hard wood should be treated with great respect.


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## Raymond (Mar 11, 2009)

joesawer said:


> Raymond- There are very few if any logging jobs here for the forseeable future.
> The face cut you where asking about is commonly called an open face. A reversed humbolt is commonly called a conventional.
> 
> Pdqdl- I agree, mental laziness!
> ...


I agree with ya Joe. I just never had a reason to type it out, or even say it out load for that matter. I know what I need to do to get it done safely and as fast as possible though.
I can keep as many brush bunnies busy as the yard can hold...I guarantee that.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 11, 2009)

randyg said:


> You made it look EASY and thats partly due to editing but mostly due to experience, my 'hard' hat's off to you.
> 
> What's with all this argueing about felling cuts already? Humbolt (what you used) conventional (bottom cut level, top cut at 45) or open face (both top and bottom at 45), ALL will work just fine with a non-leaning POLE and a HUGE target (pile of brush) like you had.
> 
> ...



Thank you much Randy.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 11, 2009)

There are a lot of different notches, techniques, and scenerios seen in logging and tree work. Choose what you will, know why you chose it, and make sure it's working for ya. Stay safe, and productive.


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## Raymond (Mar 12, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> There are a lot of different notches, techniques, and scenerios seen in logging and tree work. Choose what you will, know why you chose it, and make sure it's working for ya. Stay safe, and productive.


Now see that's what I'm talking about.:agree2:


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## NetreeLady (Mar 12, 2009)

Raymond said:


> Never done a Humboldt notch on a trunk but I do do it up in a tree sometimes when removing leads.
> 
> What do ya call a notch that has two 45 degree cuts. Making a 90 degree angled wedge? I find myself doing that too.



That's an "open face" notch.


A notch with a traditional 90 degree floor, and an angled cut coming from above is a "conventional".


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## treeclimber101 (Mar 12, 2009)

joesawer said:


> Raymond- There are very few if any logging jobs here for the forseeable future.
> The face cut you where asking about is commonly called an open face. A reversed humbolt is commonly called a conventional.
> 
> Pdqdl- I agree, mental laziness!
> ...


I agree and like what you have to say, in my experiences i've only barberchaired 1 tree that was damaged by lightning and completely split to the stump. In my daily scope i very seldom gun whole trees because that is not typical in res. tree removal. Often we deal with very large trees in many pieces so by the time it comes for the final cut there may only be 15 to 20 of standing spar wood, with that being said the likelyhood of barberchairing is slim . We often remove the tree completely, especially if it removed by bucket. I think the important thing to understand is other a chainsaw our removal methods may be completely different . Thank you


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## Mitchell (Mar 12, 2009)

*might be jumping que*



murphy4trees said:


> Some one earlier mentioned "liking the humboldt"... Well the humboldt is the WRONG falling cut for that situation. It would be different if you were milling the log... That drop calls for an open face notch, top cut first. No need to go deep from the look of it either.. Fast, easy, accurate, reliable... (once again I sense "my smug and condescending attitude" coming through) Maybe I could word it different or pose it as a question or something, and I call like I see it ... That is just the plain truth of it... Learn from it or ignore it as you will.
> 
> Keep up the good work.. stay safe...



I have skipped the posts since this one... Murph I beg to differ, not trying to pick a fight or be a know it all . 

The humbolt is a safer undercut; it should always be the prefered cut. The but log will be less likley to skip backwards off the stump. It is more difficult to line up however like anything else... practice. Full wrap saws help as well.

Going with a deeper undercut is generally correct when dealing with a tree that has been wieght reduced; the hing is closer to the center of gravity. 

I will read the last few pages of posts now


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## murphy4trees (Mar 13, 2009)

*spoken like a true logger*

No offense intended back at you...
And your statement is exactly what I AM talking about...
Tell the truth now... you are a logger... You fall trees in the woods, not in backyards..

There is 0% chance of "The but log skipping backwards off the stump" in 98% + of the trees I fall... None .. nadda... zip... Why would they?... nothing to hang up on and get pushed back by... straight falls with no contact of anything before they hit grass... 

Another note for all... i think we need to get our definitions straight... the face cut that resembles (2) 45º conventional notches stacked, so that the face is 90º with one cut sloping up and one cut sloping down on equal angles, is not what I call the open face, even though ANSI calls it that in a diagram ..

The open face I AM talking about has a very steep top cut.. maybe 60-75º, and a horizontal (level) floor cut (that is parrallell with the ground). Made with top cut first, which makes it wasier to gun... Since it appears that many here think that the open face refers to two stacked 45º cuts, we have a major communication gap.. Which also harkens back to my original statement that anyone who uses the humboldt to fall trees in backyards on a regular basis lacks training. If you had been properly trained, you would know what an open face notch is.

Also as far as Tim Ard goes... I know he teaches the open face cut... as does arbormaster and Mark Chisholm... That said, he got pretty peeves at TCI magazine after they published the tapered hinge article back in July, 2004, which blasted him for teaching the adjusted gun technique rather than the tapered hinge for falling side leaners.. we hashed that over here at AS pretty well at the time..
see page 8: http://www.tcia.org/PDFs/TCI MAG JULYentiresmall.pdf

Also not sure what you are talking about Dan, ... cutting a humboldt 5' high on that fall... Whatever for?... you think the log dropping 5' off the stump is going to do less lawn damage than using an open face a few inches off the ground? I'd like to see that!... and if the decking is set up right you can minimize damage no matter how you cut it... Pushing that saw up against gravity at shoulder height is no picnic... Why do it?


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## joesawer (Mar 13, 2009)

This is what I am talking about.
Pride and Prejudice
Loggers fire fighters and aborists all want to be the best and "Right". They all take turns criticizing and condemning something different.
There is a lot of miscommunications because different people call the same thing by different names or different things by the same name.

In my experience only the least experienced worst, most poorly trained people make the top cut first on a conventional face. It is much harder to get an accurate gun and is a poor cover for lack of proper training and experience causing mis matched cuts. 
I will repeat my observation of Tim Ard. He will continue to be a good example of how not to cut a tree. If you are a raw green beginner, his training would be of benefit. But make no mistake there is a whole world out there that makes him slow, inefficient, and less safe. Do yourself a favor and open your eyes to a whole level above and beyond his very low plateau.


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## murphy4trees (Mar 13, 2009)

*let me be clear*

Joe,
My point is that the "right" cut for loggers in the woods is not the "right cut for falling spars in backyards.. so I AM not telling a logger that the humboldt is wrong... 
open face notch... top cut first... NOT CONVENTIONAL...
I try to keep an open mind and listen to all voices here... Yours however is not working for me... Not sure what you are up to, and I KNOW what I do to put a tree on the ground WORKS... fast, accurate, easy, hard to misjudge.. etc.. your humboldt is none of that!

ps... do you know the cut I AM talking about?... using the gunning line on top of the saw it is easy to get a perfect gun by standing behind the saw and looking over the top gunning line.
your statement "make the top cut first on a conventional face. It is much harder to get an accurate gun".. makes me think you don;t know the cut I AM talking about... See attached photo.. This cut is slightly adjusting the gun on a notch... you can stand right behind the saw and look down the gunning line to exactly where the front of the hinge is aimed.. 
I'll be OOT for a few days..


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 13, 2009)

I can't believe this guys. It doesn't matter which method you choose as long as you do it right and it works for you. There are many ways to get to the same end.

I know the terms and the fancy talk, but it is to the point of complete uselessness with this petty bickering. You want to be a respected pro, then act courteously to your brother.


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## pdqdl (Mar 13, 2009)

Humbolt. Hmmm. 

Beranek says in his book "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work" that it is useful for clearing the tree off the stump and for preserving as much lumber in the log as possible.

I suspect that is why the loggers like it best; it makes more money by preserving as much wood as possible.

Jumping off the stump is usually of little to no value for tree removal. And there are other, better, easier ways to make sure that a log doesn't jump off the stump backwards. 

Incidentally, jumping backwards off a stump is something I have never seen. My understanding of physics tells me that is a much bigger problem when you are dealing with a tree that may have a height 50 times it's trunk diameter with a relatively tiny spread or "dripline".


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## tree MDS (Mar 13, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> I can't believe this guys. It doesn't matter which method you choose as long as you do it right and it works for you. There are many ways to get to the same end.
> 
> I know the terms and the fancy talk, but it is to the point of complete uselessness with this petty bickering. You want to be a respected pro, then act courteously to your brother.



Well put nails, enough is enough, who cares!

Just cut the tree for cryin out loud!


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## tree md (Mar 13, 2009)

*Great Job!*

Great job Nails!

I really want a GRCS of my own. I have only seen one used on the job by Treebot when we were working an ice storm together. It is on my list to get this year. The Spiderjack looked really sweet too.

I am not one to criticize much but I feel I would be remiss if I didn't say this: I used to climb unsecured on big trees until I got past the spar and could tie in easily. Back in the 90's I was working with a climber that was doing that and he fell. He only fell about 12 feet but it paralyzed him. He was only 22. From that point on I always set a line in the tree and have someone belay for me until I can get tied in.

As far as one handing, I do it all the time and have never seen a climber who doesn't do it.

Won't get into the notch debate. I know what I use and it works for me. I say if it works for you then that is your prerogative.

Excellent job!


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## TreeBot (Mar 13, 2009)

tree md said:


> I have only seen one used on the job by Treebot when we were working an ice storm together.



TreeMD forgot to mention: that was the storm that bought and paid for my GRCS. :rockn:
Thanks again to him and his customers. A climber could not ask for a more gracious welcome than I got when we showed up in Tulsa!

Can you believe this guy put up me, my dog, AND my groundsman?


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## tree md (Mar 13, 2009)

TreeBot said:


> TreeMD forgot to mention: that was the storm that bought and paid for my GRCS. :rockn:
> Thanks again to him and his customers. A climber could not ask for a more gracious welcome than I got when we showed up in Tulsa!
> 
> Can you believe this guy put up me, my dog, AND my groundsman?



Yeah, and I really miss the dog... 

That was lots of fun bot. I love working with other climbers. When you work on your own you can get stagnant in your technique if you don't have others to learn new tricks from. You were a big help during that storm. 

I'm just about to leave to go look at a new 1 ton dually. I'll call you if I buy it.


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 13, 2009)

tree md said:


> Great job Nails!
> 
> I really want a GRCS of my own. I have only seen one used on the job by Treebot when we were working an ice storm together. It is on my list to get this year. The Spiderjack looked really sweet too.
> 
> ...




Thanks MD. The GRCS is just another handy tool to have, it isn't cheap, but really opens up options when you need them. We climb everything and never use a crane so it has become our small portable crane if you will. The big difference being that you need a sturdy structure to rig off of with it.


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## tree md (Mar 13, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Thanks MD. The GRCS is just another handy tool to have, it isn't cheap, but really opens up options when you need them. We climb everything and never use a crane so it has become our small portable crane if you will. The big difference being that you need a sturdy structure to rig off of with it.



That's what I want one for. I usually use a crane when there is heavy rigging to be done over structures. Especially when a crane would be more time/cost efficient. The GRCS would allow me to be more competitive in my pricing as well as allow me to get to trees where the crane can't go. It seems that it would make a climber highly specialized. When I worked with TreeBot we used it in some very versatile situations. We even used it to pull my 2 ton dump out of the mud.


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## pdqdl (Mar 13, 2009)

Since we are on the topic: does anyone have a link to exactly how the winch part of the GRCS is used? I have never seen one in use, except videos at a great distance where the camera is watching the branch, not the GRCS.

It looks like you would need someone to hold the rope, and someone else to turn the crank. That, or pause every couple of feet to get a new grip on the tail of the rope.

It advertises that they are "self-tailing". What exactly does that mean?

I presume that it has planetary gears in the drum?


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 13, 2009)

When you wrap the rope on it stays on until you undo the last wrap to begin lowering. The last wrap in the "jaws" is what secures it. I believe this is what self tailing is referring to.


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## Wolfking42084 (Mar 13, 2009)

Is the grcs basically a windlass like on a boat?


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 13, 2009)

Wolfking42084 said:


> Is the grcs basically a windlass like on a boat?



Yup.


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## nskizwood (Mar 15, 2009)

Nice teamwork! Your new freind Bob... he is not a bad guy! Sthil still cutting pretty slow though compared to the 272!! Where di the pics from that huge white go??


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 15, 2009)

nskizwood said:


> Nice teamwork! Your new freind Bob... he is not a bad guy! Sthil still cutting pretty slow though compared to the 272!! Where di the pics from that huge white go??



Nski ya old goat, good to see you finally made it. Took you longer that the 357 does to start, lol.

Search for 40" Hollow White Oak Felling in the picture forum, that's where the goods are. I should have my second youtube vid up in a couple days, you'll be stoked on the opening soundtrack if they let me use it and I don't have to replace it with some crap lobby music they're pushin. Leroy is climbing, it's good stuff.

BTW, I sold the 272, dang good saw, but I gots 3 of dem der 440's to replace it, lol.


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## nskizwood (Mar 15, 2009)

How was that job today? Wife said she saw you with the saw over the shoulder walking like a stud!? Almost got all the wood cut and split that we took out this winter. All in a pile though... will have to wait for the ground to firm up or haul it out the early mornings. Lots of good wood there. Only got the stack left west of the wood to cut/split. Its a mud fest out there! How much you say you got that splitter for from farm and barn??


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 15, 2009)

nskizwood said:


> How was that job today? Wife said she saw you with the saw over the shoulder walking like a stud!? Almost got all the wood cut and split that we took out this winter. All in a pile though... will have to wait for the ground to firm up or haul it out the early mornings. Lots of good wood there. Only got the stack left west of the wood to cut/split. Its a mud fest out there! How much you say you got that splitter for from farm and barn??



Wow, you're up late, I was not expecting that. $1200 or so and F&Shthouse will hook you up. Let me know if you get one, will need a few quick mods. 

Yeah, that job was nice, big tree, lotsa wood. I had the 357 and had to snag the 440 for the bigger stuff, that musta been when she saw me out on the street workin it. We powered up on the whole deal in 6hrs with 3 of us. It'll be on Youtube, downloading as we speak.


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## FanOFatherNash (Sep 8, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Not bad nails.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, the soundtrack was gay. lol.


 
sigh of relief at 4:14 thought well at least song only lasted half of the video , then ....


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## BlackOakTreeServ (Sep 8, 2011)

You beats the nail on the heads!!!!....nice job man, and the better half did a good job on the vid...keep up the good work..


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## BlackOakTreeServ (Sep 8, 2011)

murphy4trees said:


> OK that makes sense then... And I'd call that good customer service.. cause if it was me, he'd be dealing with the open face notch on the butt cut... He'd have had more wood too though, as it could have been cut a good bit lower with an open face... and with the pull line, and all that open space for a drop zone... the open face could have been 6" deep or less and still been 100% reliable with a good back cut... So it wouldn;t have been much of a factor in dealing with the wood...
> 
> And I guess what I really think is that the humboldt is just so much harder to cut, matching up the cuts and all on the upward sloping cut... a major hassle... That's just me though.. Loggers seem to have no problem with it.. I AM just an arborist..



Yep, I agree with murphy all the way, open face cut is best for arborist...its all I use, good control for HO type work, but not saying humbolt dont work for you though nails...you do very good work.


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