# baileys low profile ripping chain



## bookerdog (Oct 20, 2006)

I also tried some baileys low pro out. It only has a 1/4 kelf . I had no problems with it on a 20 inch bar. It is also faster.


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## thompson1600 (Oct 21, 2006)

Did it work on a regular 3/8 .050 bar? Did the regular 3/8 sprocket work with this chain?

Thanks

tom


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## bookerdog (Oct 21, 2006)

thompson1600 said:


> Did it work on a regular 3/8 .050 bar? Did the regular 3/8 sprocket work with this chain?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> tom



Yes you can use a 3/8 .050 3/8 sprocket worked


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## aquan8tor (Oct 21, 2006)

I know you're not "supposed" to, but has anyone used this on a longer bar, say 32"?? Is there a danger of chain throws. My bar is a 3/8 .050; but Bailey's suggests the use of the low pro chain on smaller bars only. Why? I understand it that this is actually .365 pitch chain, and just works b/c it is only .010 different. Anyone got any experience????


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## aquan8tor (Oct 22, 2006)

anybody?................





Bueller? 










Bueller?


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## bookerdog (Oct 22, 2006)

*just 20*



aquan8tor said:


> anybody?................
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've just tried 20 inch has worked real well. Going to try 24inch next week. I have heard people say 24 is max. Get a loop and try it then tell me if it works or not:biggrinbounce2:


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## Mike Barcaskey (Oct 23, 2006)

the longer the bar, the more horsepower and stress on the chain.
the 1/4 kerf chain will break more


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## aquan8tor (Oct 23, 2006)

I didnt think about it that way. I suppose I'm going to try it (carefully) and get a backup 24" bar and mend the chain if it breaks. Just trying to waste as little as possible. I'm going to saw up a bunch of cherry & walnut in the next month or two. (gotta finish my shed first). Appreciate the insight.


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## bookerdog (Oct 23, 2006)

*chian*



aquan8tor said:


> I didnt think about it that way. I suppose I'm going to try it (carefully) and get a backup 24" bar and mend the chain if it breaks. Just trying to waste as little as possible. I'm going to saw up a bunch of cherry & walnut in the next month or two. (gotta finish my shed first). Appreciate the insight.


Good luck on your shed. I did a test run with a new baileys low pro and a new baileys 3/8 I was suprised how much faster the low pro was. This was running in a 16 inch maple. I still want to see how it stands up but, Im pretty impressed with it. At least in the smaller lenghts.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 23, 2006)

what are you running the lowpro chain with?? I'm personally using a 394XP that I've modded the muffler on; I was going to polish the exhaust but its already quite smooth. Porting will come later when I feel like I wont FS*&TUP. I'm just worried that the 7.1+HP might be too much. A couple logs I know have buried barbed wire. I'm almost positive I can miss it by judging where it is, but am I risking a break with the skinny chain? 

I'm asking b/c you've got 3120 listed in your signature. Thanks.


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## bookerdog (Oct 23, 2006)

*372*



aquan8tor said:


> what are you running the lowpro chain with?? I'm personally using a 394XP that I've modded the muffler on; I was going to polish the exhaust but its already quite smooth. Porting will come later when I feel like I wont FS*&TUP. I'm just worried that the 7.1+HP might be too much. A couple logs I know have buried barbed wire. I'm almost positive I can miss it by judging where it is, but am I risking a break with the skinny chain?
> 
> I'm asking b/c you've got 3120 listed in your signature. Thanks.


Im using that chain on a 372 right now. I will be changing sprockets on my 3120 and giving it a try. My 372 is ported and muff moded. It is a screamer. I love the 372. I hit a bolt with the skinny chain chewed the bolt up pretty good and took a nice chunk in the chain. It didn't break though. Im suprized at the diff. in speed between the 3/8 and the low pro it is very noticeable.


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## Mike Barcaskey (Oct 23, 2006)

we run a low profile, thin kerf chain on the Logosol with a 660 Mag.
haven't broke a chain yet, but thats controlled milling, not cross cutting and digging the dogs in


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## aquan8tor (Oct 23, 2006)

you like the logosol?? I saw one for sale recently. I'm telling myself I need to hold out for a band mill, but just curious what a reg. user has to say about one. Didnt mean to take over the thread. Glad to hear the chain works well with both your powerful saws. I'll be placing an order to Baileys soon.


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## woodshop (Oct 23, 2006)

bookerdog said:


> Im suprized at the diff. in speed between the 3/8 and the low pro it is very noticeable.


If my 36 inch bars for my 395 milling saw were .050 and not .063, I would buy or make a length of LP and try myself. The thickness of the kerf doesn't seem to be much different, but if you say it goes easier, I'd like to test that out myself. However, since they don't make LP in .063, it's academic I guess. I do have a 32 inch .050 bar for my MS460 mag... I guess I could make one up for that, but then the 460 Stihl isn't as powerful as my 395 Husky so it would be hard to tell. Might just make them both even?


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## TedChristiansen (Oct 23, 2006)

I concur with Bookerdog. The low profile chain is quite a bit faster on a bar of the same length compared to standard. I have only used the chain from Logosol (Stihl 63PMX), but it is equivalent to the Baileys chain.

Logosol doesnt sell the 63PMX in sizes over 24", most likely because of durability reasons. If you maintained the chain well it might be possible to use it on longer bars without issues.

I am also a Logosol owner. I have both the TimberJig and Woodworkers Mill and run Husqvarna 385XP on both. The Woodworkers Mill (or M7) are a joy to use. The biggest benefits are:

1. Stand upright while cutting
2. Crank the saw through the wood - no pushing
3. The cut thickness is controlled by the beds, not by the log surface.

The third one is why the quality of the cut is so good. Errors from the cuts are not magnified as each cut is made.

Regards,

Ted


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## bookerdog (Oct 23, 2006)

*low pro*

I was very suprised at the diff. in speed. I was thinking it wouldn't be to much but it was. The saw seemed to glide better through the wood also. If the chain holds up well I will use this from now on. I milled about 500 board ft today and was using the low pro with 1/4 kelf. I got pretty tried of touching them up so I just put a 3/8 baileys ripping chain on. After the first cut with the 3/8 chain on I couldn't figure out why my board was narrower. Stuipid me forgot to adjust for the extra kelf cut.:bang:


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## aquan8tor (Oct 24, 2006)

sounds like something I'd do. Say, you're using your husky to mill with; does it have the PITA front located chain tensioner? Any ideas on making this easier?? I was thinking about taking a big landscaping spike or something--1/4" or better dia., and heating it up with an oxy/mapp torch--the cheap bernzomatic one from lowe's, and bending it, then using a grinder to make a 90deg. screwdriver. 
I havent milled but a few hundred BF yet, but seems like whenever I get into a rythm and get my cuts really smooth, the chain needs to be tensioned, and I have to dismantle the bar clamps on the mill, which means on the alaskan undoing the depth clamps too, b/c a bar wrench wont fit under the guide to loosen the bar clamp. Whole mess. My socket wrench doesnt fit either. Looks like an excuse to buy a set of offset ratcheting box-end wrenches, or whatever they call them. Saw them on sale for like $50. Tools.  tools.


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## dustytools (Oct 24, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> sounds like something I'd do. Say, you're using your husky to mill with; does it have the PITA front located chain tensioner? Any ideas on making this easier?? I was thinking about taking a big landscaping spike or something--1/4" or better dia., and heating it up with an oxy/mapp torch--the cheap bernzomatic one from lowe's, and bending it, then using a grinder to make a 90deg. screwdriver.
> I havent milled but a few hundred BF yet, but seems like whenever I get into a rythm and get my cuts really smooth, the chain needs to be tensioned, and I have to dismantle the bar clamps on the mill, which means on the alaskan undoing the depth clamps too, b/c a bar wrench wont fit under the guide to loosen the bar clamp. Whole mess. My socket wrench doesnt fit either. Looks like an excuse to buy a set of offset ratcheting box-end wrenches, or whatever they call them. Saw them on sale for like $50. Tools.  tools.


This is one advantage of running a double ended bar, the chain can be adjusted at the handle end of the bar very quickly. Sure beats removing everything to get to the adjuster on the saw.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 24, 2006)

I'm a little short on cash for that one. The bar would be over $200, and the helper handle $100 by themselves, plus yet another chain. I've got a 42" solid nose on the way that I'm going to eventually mod to accept a roller-sprocket helper handle. We'll see how that one goes. I need it to fell a tree sometime this winter, anyway, so it wont be a complete loss even if I mess it up. I'll give an update whenever I get around to it.


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## bookerdog (Oct 24, 2006)

*tensioner*



aquan8tor said:


> sounds like something I'd do. Say, you're using your husky to mill with; does it have the PITA front located chain tensioner? Any ideas on making this easier?? I was thinking about taking a big landscaping spike or something--1/4" or better dia., and heating it up with an oxy/mapp torch--the cheap bernzomatic one from lowe's, and bending it, then using a grinder to make a 90deg. screwdriver.
> I havent milled but a few hundred BF yet, but seems like whenever I get into a rythm and get my cuts really smooth, the chain needs to be tensioned, and I have to dismantle the bar clamps on the mill, which means on the alaskan undoing the depth clamps too, b/c a bar wrench wont fit under the guide to loosen the bar clamp. Whole mess. My socket wrench doesnt fit either. Looks like an excuse to buy a set of offset ratcheting box-end wrenches, or whatever they call them. Saw them on sale for like $50. Tools.  tools.


My 372 has a side tension. Now the 3120 does not I did something like your taking about with a oversized screwdriver. It works:jester:


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## twoodward15 (Oct 24, 2006)

How about just drilling a hole through the bar and using a standard screw driver? That's what I am doing tomorrow.


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## bookerdog (Oct 24, 2006)

*speed*



woodshop said:


> If my 36 inch bars for my 395 milling saw were .050 and not .063, I would buy or make a length of LP and try myself. The thickness of the kerf doesn't seem to be much different, but if you say it goes easier, I'd like to test that out myself. However, since they don't make LP in .063, it's academic I guess. I do have a 32 inch .050 bar for my MS460 mag... I guess I could make one up for that, but then the 460 Stihl isn't as powerful as my 395 Husky so it would be hard to tell. Might just make them both even?


That would be interesting if the low pro would make the 460 as fast as the 395 with regular 3/8th. I guess to really test the theory thought you would need to have a 36 inch bar on the stihl also.


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## twoodward15 (Oct 24, 2006)

any idea on how it would do on an under powered mill? 55cc w/ a 20 inch bar, cutting 12 inch wood? I need to step up to real ripping chain and don't know wether I should go with the low pro or the standard. Does it really make a noticeable difference in milling speed?


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## bookerdog (Oct 24, 2006)

*yes*



twoodward15 said:


> any idea on how it would do on an under powered mill? 55cc w/ a 20 inch bar, cutting 12 inch wood? I need to step up to real ripping chain and don't know wether I should go with the low pro or the standard. Does it really make a noticeable difference in milling speed?


yes it does make a noticeable difference. I wood also think with what you are milling and the power of saw you have. I would go with a 16inch bar and some of bailey's low pro


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## woodshop (Oct 24, 2006)

bookerdog said:


> That would be interesting if the low pro would make the 460 as fast as the 395 with regular 3/8th. I guess to really test the theory thought you would need to have a 36 inch bar on the stihl also.


Even easier to really see how much difference... I could use my 28 inch bar (.050) on my 365. I could make up a loop of both the standard 3/8 rip and the LP, and stick that in my csm and see the diff on same log, same width.


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## bookerdog (Oct 24, 2006)

*365*



woodshop said:


> Even easier to really see how much difference... I could use my 28 inch bar (.050) on my 365. I could make up a loop of both the standard 3/8 rip and the LP, and stick that in my csm and see the diff on same log, same width.


365 great saw. I think I use that saw more then the others. Don't really know why but its my favorite. I know on my 372 it made a diff. Would be interesting for someone to bit the bullet and put a 36inch on.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 24, 2006)

I'm about to order a 32" loop. It is the 30LR .365x.050, right?? thanks.


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## bookerdog (Oct 24, 2006)

*right*



aquan8tor said:


> I'm about to order a 32" loop. It is the 30LR .365x.050, right?? thanks.


great deal can't wait for a report on it. Thanks for biting the bullet.:deadhorse:


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## bookerdog (Oct 25, 2006)

*Ordered*

Well went ahead and ordered 8 loops of baileys low pro today. 4 20inch 2 24 and 2 28. I will use these this weekend and get back to everyone. I should just buy a breaker and spinner and start making my own. Hey woodshop how is that working out for you. the breaker and spinner that is


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## aquan8tor (Oct 25, 2006)

I just ordered 2. I almost bought a reel, but I thought I'd better try it out first. I'll get a reel once I'm sold on it. Its got to stand up to the (very)occasional piece of fence wire--some of the trees I'm planning on milling this winter are/were along old fencelines, and most certainly have wire embedded. Hopefully the chaps will suffice if it breaks.


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## bookerdog (Oct 25, 2006)

*chaps*



aquan8tor said:


> I just ordered 2. I almost bought a reel, but I thought I'd better try it out first. I'll get a reel once I'm sold on it. Its got to stand up to the (very)occasional piece of fence wire--some of the trees I'm planning on milling this winter are/were along old fencelines, and most certainly have wire embedded. Hopefully the chaps will suffice if it breaks.


yes those chaps come in handy.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 27, 2006)

I just got the package. Talk about fast [email protected]!! The package came from TN; I guess they have a store there or a depot or something. I hope to use it if its sunny on Sunday afternoon. Pretty crappy out right now, and Ive got to work nights tonight, and me lady is going to be in town tomorrow. I'll give an update, and pics. (of the milling).


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## bookerdog (Oct 27, 2006)

*weekend*

My wife thought she had plans for me this weekend. Then her mom called her to go shopping So it looks like a full weekend of milling for me:biggrinbounce2:


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## woodshop (Oct 27, 2006)

bookerdog said:


> Hey woodshop how is that working out for you. the breaker and spinner that is


Actually I thought there would be a little more of a learning curve with them, but after only one try I was knocking out loops off of the 100 ft reel of Baileys ripping chain I bought. Nothing to it. Takes longer to count out/measure the number of links than to make the loop in the spinner.


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## bookerdog (Oct 27, 2006)

*Thanks*



woodshop said:


> Actually I thought there would be a little more of a learning curve with them, but after only one try I was knocking out loops off of the 100 ft reel of Baileys ripping chain I bought. Nothing to it. Takes longer to count out/measure the number of links than to make the loop in the spinner.


Thats what I needed to hear thanks for the info.


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## Crofter (Oct 27, 2006)

*Lo Pro Chain*

I spent a bit of time trying to nail down the differences in it and regular 3/8 chain and here are a few things I found

1. The pitch is not different. If you measure it is about .367 for both the lo pro and the regular 3/8 or so called .375 chain. The numbers are all an aproximation.

2. The rivets and bearing area in the drive tangs are smaller and you will most likely see more chain lengthening with use, than regular 3/8 chain.

3. The drive tang that engages the drive sprocket is shorter on the low pro and the angle of the flanks where it meets the sprocket are not identical but there seems to be no big problem using low pro on a sprocket designed for regular but there is most likely clearance problems if you try to use a regular 3/8 on a sprocket designed for low pro and the bigger cutters may try to eat the saw and clutch cover. It exchanges one way but not the other.

4. Sprocket nose. Here is where I see a potential problem. I am using it on my saw and watching for wear. If you notice how the drive tangs of regular 3/8 chain engage the prongs of the sprocket nose you will see that the flanks of the drive tangs are supported by the sides of the notches in the nose wheel. Using a low pro chain with the smaller profile drive tang, the contact area changes to the tip of the sprocke nose tooth jambed between the drive tangs up close to the rivet line. It seems to be working on a much smaller bearing area with more of a wedging effect and the lower flanks of the drive tangs are taking no load. It may wear in and start to seat where it should but at least with a new low pro chain it is riding up on the tips of the sprocket nose teeth.

I have not used it for milling but like it for cutting brush as you get slapped in the face less. Have not used it a lot of hours and only on an 026. I think some of the chainsaw carving forums have info on different noses especially for the low pro chain but have seen nothing on regular replaceable sprocket nose tips. I have never had a broken chain wrap around me but the thought would make me nervous to run that on a big saw.


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## bookerdog (Oct 27, 2006)

*crofter*



Crofter said:


> I spent a bit of time trying to nail down the differences in it and regular 3/8 chain and here are a few things I found
> 
> 1. The pitch is not different. If you measure it is about .367 for both the lo pro and the regular 3/8 or so called .375 chain. The numbers are all an aproximation.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the infomation. Would it make since to have a bar and sprocket for the low pro and a bar and sprocket for regular 3/8. Would the wear make a diff.


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## Crofter (Oct 27, 2006)

Problem is that I dont know where you can get a bar of much length designed for the low pro chain. It does seem to run OK and I have watched a 371 Johnny doing a demo with it on their jober saw. If anyone has some low pro chain and a regular sprocket nose bar, have a look at how the two chains mate with the star wheel on the nose. I think that is of more concern than the drive sprocket end where the chain bears on the side links if the drive tangs dont fill the sprocket notches I tried to get some info from Oregon and Carleton on the specifics of why it would / would not interchange and got no reply from their technical departments. Might be liability issues if something did happen. Lots of fellows run it but I think I have seen that wear is an issue. No question that it does cut faster on a small saw and take a narrower bite.


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## bookerdog (Oct 27, 2006)

*milling*



Crofter said:


> Problem is that I dont know where you can get a bar of much length designed for the low pro chain. It does seem to run OK and I have watched a 371 Johnny doing a demo with it on their jober saw. If anyone has some low pro chain and a regular sprocket nose bar, have a look at how the two chains mate with the star wheel on the nose. I think that is of more concern than the drive sprocket end where the chain bears on the side links if the drive tangs dont fill the sprocket notches I tried to get some info from Oregon and Carleton on the specifics of why it would / would not interchange and got no reply from their technical departments. Might be liability issues if something did happen. Lots of fellows run it but I think I have seen that wear is an issue. No question that it does cut faster on a small saw and take a narrower bite.


crofter thanks for the information. I have just started using it for milling and was suprised at how much faster it cut. I have only used it on a 20inch bar for right now but will be trying it on a 28inch bar.


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## stonykill (Nov 12, 2006)

Mike Barcaskey said:


> the longer the bar, the more horsepower and stress on the chain.
> the 1/4 kerf chain will break more


I CALLED BAILEYS ABOUT THIS, BEFORE I ORDERED. THE SALESMAN TOLD ME STRENGTH WAS NOT THE ISSUE. THEY RECOMEND IT FOR A BAR NO LONGER THAN 24 INCHES BECAUSE AS A BAR GETS LONGER IT GETS THICKER. AT 24 INCHES A BAR AND THE LOW PRO CHAIN ARE ABOUT THE SAME SIZE, AND ON A LONGER BAR THE BAR COULD BE THICKER THAN THE CHAIN


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 12, 2006)

stonykill said:


> I CALLED BAILEYS ABOUT THIS, BEFORE I ORDERED. THE SALESMAN TOLD ME STRENGTH WAS NOT THE ISSUE. THEY RECOMEND IT FOR A BAR NO LONGER THAN 24 INCHES BECAUSE AS A BAR GETS LONGER IT GETS THICKER. AT 24 INCHES A BAR AND THE LOW PRO CHAIN ARE ABOUT THE SAME SIZE, AND ON A LONGER BAR THE BAR COULD BE THICKER THAN THE CHAIN




stonykill, After reading you'r post I used a mic. on my bar's
all are very new, Stihl ES 3/8 .063 bars with the paint still on them
I measured them about a inch behind the removable sprocket tip
16"= 0.176
20"= 0.177
24"= 0.186
36"= 0.185
and a older Stihl 16" .063 hard nose= 0.192
So with the 3/8 .063 Stihl bars, what Baileys said don't hold true
with the Stihl bars

I also measured a 3/8 .050 Picco bar it was 0.159 thick

I then measured a new Stihl 3/8 .063 RM chain cutting width= 0.278
And a new Stihl 3/8 Picco .050 PM chain cutting width = 0.230
The 3/8 Picco takes .048" thinner cut than the 3/8 RM chain
and if my math is correct if you are milling a 20" wide X 8' long
log you would be cutting up .064 more board feet per cut
with the bigger chain .048x20x96=92.16/144=0.64 board feet
again if my math is correct the 3/8 Picco will take 20% less
wood per cut.

So does it take 20% less HP to pull the Picco chain?
I'm would really like to try this chain. I understand that
Stihl makes a 3/8 Picco rim sprocket. Has anyone used one?

Thanks, Gary


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## woodshop (Nov 13, 2006)

Trigger-Time said:


> stonykill, After reading you'r post I used a mic. on my bar's...


Trigger, thanks for that investigative info... I have been thinking more and more about trying this. If I had more time to "play" I would have already. 20% is a LOT of difference. Part of the reason I have not yet, is as stated before in many other posts, is that some of us are trying to KISS, (Keep It Simple Stupid) when it comes to having different types of chain/bars/sprocket tips etc. I know, one size doesn't always fit all situations, but often one size fits well enough that if only for economy of scale (buying bulk, thus cheaper) it's worth running one kind of chain/bar/sprocket for many different situations. I currently have 4 different chains, and three different pitch bars I stock for my saws.


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## TedChristiansen (Nov 13, 2006)

Gary,

The Stihl 63PMX pico chain is what most if not all Logosol mill owners use. As far as I know Logosol is the only U.S. authorized distributor of this chain. You can order it from their website - http://www.logosol.com.

I started milling in March 2005 with a Logosol TimberJig and Husqvarna 385XP running 24" and 16" bars with Stihl 63PMX chain. I upgraded to the Logosol Woodworkers Mill this summer and have been very pleased with the results.

Ted


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## bookerdog (Nov 13, 2006)

*used it*

Okay I used some bailey's low pro yesterday on a 28inch bar with no problems. I have used the same bar with regular 3/8 pitch with same 7tooth sprocket. I am still amazed at how much faster the cuts are. Since I just use the logosol bigmill basic. I am going to switch over to all low pro.


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## camojeep (Nov 13, 2006)

newbie here but i tried the low pro on a 28 inch bar echo 8000 with alaskan mill and chain broke after about 100 board feet on hickory went back to 3/8


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 13, 2006)

camojeep said:


> newbie here but i tried the low pro on a 28 inch bar echo 8000 with alaskan mill and chain broke after about 100 board feet on hickory went back to 3/8



camojeep, Welcome to AS. 

Just curious, was the hickory green or was it seasoned? 
Did the chain break at the start of cut, or in the cut?
And what did the chain do, fly apart, I guess I want to 
know if it was a dangerous situation when the chain broke?

Thanks, Gary


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## camojeep (Nov 13, 2006)

Thanks for the welcome the hickory was alive but blowed over about 3 months ago been milling 9 foot boards to finish a wall in the basement chain broke on 12th board in the middle of the cut


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## camojeep (Nov 13, 2006)

never read all your post no it wasnt dangerous chain stopped immediatly and saw reved up p.s my speling not very good


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 13, 2006)

woodshop said:


> is that some of us are trying to KISS, (Keep It Simple Stupid) when it comes to having different types of chain/bars/sprocket tips etc. I know, one size doesn't always fit all situations,
> 
> Woodshop, My 026,MS361,MS460,066 & MS660 all have the 3/8 .063 B/C
> on them. Now that I want to try the 3/8 low pro style chain
> ...


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 13, 2006)

TedChristiansen said:


> Gary,
> 
> The Stihl 63PMX pico chain is what most if not all Logosol mill owners use. As far as I know Logosol is the only U.S. authorized distributor of this chain. You can order it from their website - http://www.logosol.com.
> 
> ...



Ted, Is the B/C that Logosol sells the standard 3/8 .050.
I guess what I'm asking if I buy a 3/8 .050 bar,then I can
buy some loops of chain from Logosol and be good to go?

Thanks, Gary


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## gumneck (Nov 13, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> sounds like something I'd do. Say, you're using your husky to mill with; does it have the PITA front located chain tensioner? Any ideas on making this easier?? I was thinking about taking a big landscaping spike or something--1/4" or better dia., and heating it up with an oxy/mapp torch--the cheap bernzomatic one from lowe's, and bending it, then using a grinder to make a 90deg. screwdriver.
> I havent milled but a few hundred BF yet, but seems like whenever I get into a rythm and get my cuts really smooth, the chain needs to be tensioned, and I have to dismantle the bar clamps on the mill, which means on the alaskan undoing the depth clamps too, b/c a bar wrench wont fit under the guide to loosen the bar clamp. Whole mess. My socket wrench doesnt fit either. Looks like an excuse to buy a set of offset ratcheting box-end wrenches, or whatever they call them. Saw them on sale for like $50. Tools.  tools.




In case you didn't know, Sears or other local tool shop should have these type of screwdrivers.

Tom


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## aquan8tor (Nov 13, 2006)

I appreciate it, but I ended up making one---took about a minute and a half with a little sledge hammer, shop vise and a grinder.  
The funny part is that my dad ended up having the same screwdriver you posted. I still have the 'satisfaction' of having done it myself, or something like that.


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## gumneck (Nov 13, 2006)

Now you're officially a toolmaker. Good job.


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## woodshop (Nov 13, 2006)

camojeep said:


> never read all your post no it wasnt dangerous chain stopped immediatly and saw reved up p.s my speling not very good


welcome to the forum camo... what kind of saw/mill do you run? Don't worry about spelling.


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## woodshop (Nov 13, 2006)

gumneck said:


> In case you didn't know, Sears or other local tool shop should have these type of screwdrivers.
> Tom


I guess I have my 395XP to close to the csm, because even with one of those screwdrivers I can't always get the thing in the right position to use it effectively, and end up just loosening the 4 bolts on the csm and pulling it out. I did take off the dogs on my saw to get that extra inch or two from it. The bar with the index on it that you set the cutting height by literally butts up against the body of the saw. Not much room to get even one of the bent type in there.


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## bookerdog (Nov 14, 2006)

*hello*



camojeep said:


> never read all your post no it wasnt dangerous chain stopped immediatly and saw reved up p.s my speling not very good


Welcome camo Yes don't worry about spelling around here. I cut about 200 bf of red fir with the 28 low pro and didn't have a problem. But red fir is alot softer would then hickory


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## CaseyForrest (Nov 14, 2006)

Trigger-Time said:


> Ted, Is the B/C that Logosol sells the standard 3/8 .050.
> I guess what I'm asking if I buy a 3/8 .050 bar,then I can
> buy some loops of chain from Logosol and be good to go?
> 
> Thanks, Gary



No, 3/8 picco, or low pro is actually .365. So you need a .365 sprocket and bar tip.


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## camojeep (Nov 14, 2006)

running echo 8000 now on my mill got my 395xp on order cut alot of fire wood with my husky 51 i have all my firewood cut this year so i found this site and read alot about milling so i got a alaskan and been having fun milling wood for the basement


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## gumneck (Nov 14, 2006)

woodshop said:


> I guess I have my 395XP to close to the csm, because even with one of those screwdrivers I can't always get the thing in the right position to use it effectively, and end up just loosening the 4 bolts on the csm and pulling it out. I did take off the dogs on my saw to get that extra inch or two from it. The bar with the index on it that you set the cutting height by literally butts up against the body of the saw. Not much room to get even one of the bent type in there.



Dont have my alaskan on my saw so I didn't know if it would work or not. My tensioner is on the side cover(385XP). That would be aggravating to have to take apart to tension the chain. 

Anyone else seem to be replacing their ubolts and sleeve nuts on their Alaskan mills? I dont overwrench mine down but they don't seem to last very long. I've been getting replacements from the local bolt/screw shop.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 14, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> No, 3/8 picco, or low pro is actually .365. So you need a .365 sprocket and bar tip.





That's what I thought, too. I haven't actually measured it, but the Bailey's lowpro rip chain is identical in length of links to the regular .050 ripping chain. I thought the low pro was shorter, so I measured out what 3/8" x 105 links was, then divided that by .365, and got about 108 links. I've now got a 108 link chain of LP rip chain that is TOO LONG.  I'm going to have my local guy shorten it for me. 


THEY ARE THE SAME LENGTH. It matches fine with the sprocket tip on my 32 inch 3/8 0.050 Oregon Power Match bar.


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 14, 2006)

This is one of the things I don't understand (of many) The numbers
are from Stihl's web site. it shows that the 3/8 & 3/8 PICCO have the
same amount of drivers (1640) for a 100' reel of chain. It also calls the 
3/8 PICCO, (3/8" Extended) What dose the Extended mean? My simple
mind thinks that it would be MORE than .375, not less than as .365
would be.



Pitch
1 = 1/4"
2 = .325"
3 = 3/8"
4 = .404"
6 = STIHL PICCO™
(3/8" Extended)


Number of Drive
Links in Reels
Type 100'
1/4" 2400
3/8" PMN 1640
3/8" P 1640
.325" 1840
3/8" 1640
.404" 1480

I'm not trying to start anything, just trying to get my facts straight
before I make a purchase


Thanks, Gary


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 14, 2006)

I maybe talking apples and oranges here, Maybe Bailey's low pro
is .365 pitch, and Logosol 63pmx and Stihl's 3/8 PICCO are .375
If it is that would clear some things up, for me anyway. 

Gary


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## CaseyForrest (Nov 14, 2006)

Interesting, lets find out.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 14, 2006)

I think the numbers are just a reference point, really---I don't have a micrometer, so I can't check them. I thought they were standardized though, b/c chainsaw bars list the number of drive links required of each type--wouldn't they be around the same?? Don't worry, I'm not starting anything either, I've never done the measurements either. Perhaps someone else has a micrometer caliper or something.


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## woodshop (Nov 14, 2006)

gumneck said:


> Anyone else seem to be replacing their ubolts and sleeve nuts on their Alaskan mills? I dont overwrench mine down but they don't seem to last very long. I've been getting replacements from the local bolt/screw shop.


Yes... I had to replace two in the past until I found a solution. They both developed crossed threads on the u-bolt, and on the one, the threads inside that deep threaded nut were also crossed. I fixed them up temporarily with a tap and die. Then I found stainless steel ubolts at HD the right size. Few bucks more, but still relatively cheap. I put Permatex anti-seize compound on the threaded parts (it's basically grease mixed with powdered aluminum), and also put a thicker washer under each nut, and since then have had no problems. Smooth as glass tighten and untighten ever since I did that. No I don't crank down exceptionally hard either.


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 14, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Interesting, lets find out.



Casey, Looked in the 066 parts manual, it list part #1122 640 2002
for 3/8T sprocket, part #1122 640 2006 for 3/8 PICCO 7T sprocket
So I would say they must be different, (I guess) 


Gary


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## Crofter (Nov 14, 2006)

*.365, 370 low pro, 3/8 extended pitch, 3/8 regular .375 regular!*

Measure them up and I think you will find they are all the same spacing centre to centre on the rivets and that figure will be close to .367 of an inch even on the so called .375 and 3/8 chain. The figures used to describe them are nominal, not exact. There is a difference in the size and shape of the drive tang projection beneath the chain tie straps. There is also slightly less thickness from centre of rivet to bottom of chain tie strap. The low pro drive tangs fit reasonably well in a regular drive sprocket but not so well on the fingers of the star wheel that is the sprocket of the bar nose. They work on full size setups but there are some compatibility issues. If anyone can get definitive info on intermixing them from any of the chain manufactures tech. people, you are doing better than I did. I am presently running some Carlton Low Pro on a standard 3/8 setup on a 260. No doubt you might get better life from dedicated Picco components but they seem hard to come by for larger saws and bar lengths.


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## CaseyForrest (Nov 14, 2006)

For anyone interested....

http://cgi.ebay.com/100-STIHL-SAW-CHAIN-3-8-P-63-Picco-Micro-050-FreeShip_W0QQitemZ250047872536QQihZ015QQcategoryZ85915QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 14, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> For anyone interested....
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/100-STIHL-SAW-CHAIN-3-8-P-63-Picco-Micro-050-FreeShip_W0QQitemZ250047872536QQihZ015QQcategoryZ85915QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Thanks, Casey

That= 17.07 cents per driver

Gary


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## Adkpk (Nov 14, 2006)

Just to add 2 cents. (or brag) I have side chain adjusters but never had to adjust my chain while milling with the alaskan. Don't know why but there you go. 

Haven't had any problems with the u bolts on the 36" alaskan either. It's an old 
one compared to my small log mill. And I have had problems with the u bolts on that puppy. I have noticed that the aluminum on the newer small log mill is not the quality of the older alaskan. My brother also has a newer alaskan and it is the lesser quality aluminum, bummer. "Don't make them like they used to."


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## josgmctk (Nov 14, 2006)

*Sprockets*

the one on the left is 3/8 inch for 350 or N1 chain 
the one in center is 3/8 picca for 91 chain 
the one on the right is 3/8 inch for 72. 73 and 75 chain 
as you can see the shape of the teeth are different 
hope this may help you all figure out the difference


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 15, 2006)

camojeep said:


> never read all your post no it wasnt dangerous chain stopped immediatly and saw reved up p.s my speling not very good



Yes Camojeep, Don't worry about spelling. 
I don't know if you know but when you are writing
a post, below it there is a spell check button. I 
use it all the time, some times (ALLOT) I don't
even get close enough to the word that spell check
knows what word I'M trying to spell!
And as you can tell it don't do CRAP for my grammar

Gary


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## aquan8tor (Jan 24, 2007)

So I finally got around to using the 32" loop of 3/8 lo-profile ripping chain I got from Bailey's. Man does it cut fast!!!!!!! I only cut up a couple of 10"x60 logs of spalted maple (some of which is too soft to use, unfortunately, but beautiful). I'll post pics tomorrow; I can't upload at work. Maybe someone can help me out with this. I thought I was tightening the chain enough, but I'm getting a really bumpy cut. I'm using my aluminum guide planks from the ripsaw, which are perfectly smooth, but I'm still getting a lot of wobble in the cut. It feels like the saw is making the chain ride high in the groove, like it wants to fling outwards, no matter how tight I seem to get it. And, it of course the chain needs to be tensioned at the end of the cut. I think there's more stretch (obviously) than with a smaller chain. The speed though is amazing. 

I've still yet to use my ripsaw more than one time; every time I try to bring my logs back from the cabin, the river is up way too high to get the pickup across, with or without a trailer. That's another story. Anybody got some advice on the chain/cut issue?? I'll post some pics tomorrow.


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## aquan8tor (Jan 24, 2007)

Here's some of the pics; more to follow. Just a couple 4 1/2-5 foot logs of spalted maple from a big limb that got cracked in a storm last spring:





View attachment 44219


View attachment 44220


View attachment 44221


View attachment 44222


View attachment 44223


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## aquan8tor (Jan 24, 2007)

View attachment 44224


View attachment 44225


View attachment 44226


View attachment 44227


View attachment 44228






In pic 104 you can see what I'm talking about with the surface. I don't have any chipped teeth; I've checked. I'm afraid to over-tension the chain because its so flimsy feeling. theres a few more coming......


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## aquan8tor (Jan 24, 2007)

View attachment 44229

View attachment 44230




I ended up with just 4 planks one live edge, 10/4 but man, what figure and color. Hopefully everything is solid enough to use. I meant to take some closeups but you get the idea. I'm saving the squaring-cutoffs to see if I can saw off some veneer from the burls with the shop bandsaw and a sliding jig I read about, and will try to replicate ghetto style. Any easy way to get the bark off?? I have a powerwasher....
1

Main thing is this: You can see in the pics how rough the surface of the wood is. I got incredibly smooth surfaces with my locust milling, even though I had to stop after EVERY FRIGIN BOARD and sharpen!!! 12" x 9' of locust wouldn't seem to do much, but apparently, it dulls the hell outta the chains. Smooth surface though. I thought I had pretty good tension here, but again, this is my first time with the lowpro ripping chain. Could be a 32" sprocketnose oregon bar is a little long for it?? Thoughts and experience, please. The speed of this chain is too addictive for me to give up after just two puny little logs.




View attachment 44231

View attachment 44232



These pics are of why I haven't used my ripsaw yet.......I have to get through all this, with a trailer, back into the woods, then go over a hell of a jeeptrail to the spot where all this is: 

View attachment 44233




the stump in the picture is 24" for reference. Black cherry.


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## aquan8tor (Jan 24, 2007)

sorry for the invalid links. Don'ot know what's going on. These should have been on the last post:View attachment 44234


View attachment 44235


View attachment 44236


View attachment 44237


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## lumberjackchef (Jan 24, 2007)

Sure coulda used that Lewis Winch in that last couple of pics huh?
BTW those boards are very nice. I have used some of baileys chain on a 48" mill and it seemed from your closer pics to be same roughness that my slabs turned out. The speed was impressive as well. I have experimented with angles quite a bit since I got my grinder. If that's too rough then you could always change the angle of the cutter. The closer to 0 degrees top plate angle, the smoother the cut, but this will also slow down the speed of your cut a bit. JMTC. Anyway what cha gonna make out of that spalted maple?


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## aquan8tor (Jan 24, 2007)

Don't know yet. I was hoping to do a nice table top of some kind, but I'm a little worried that not all of it will be usable. Its got a couple soft spots in the middle of one of the most highly figured parts. I Think that part will end up as a jewelry box for my girlfriend, minus the soft spots of course. The other, well, I'd really like a nice corner table , with legs of clear maple. Who knows. I might come up with something else first. 
Just so I'm clear, you used the lopro baileys on a 48" mill?? I've used both, but this one was with the lowprofile 3/8" stuff.


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## aquan8tor (Jan 24, 2007)

oh yeah. The lewis winch is "in the mail" Famous last words. Had to do an ebay dispute b/c the buyer tacked on extra shipping at the end. I ended up eating the shipping b/c I just couldn't stand the waiting part. They haven't entered the electronic money age, and insisted on a money order, which took two weeks to get there, global priority express (supposedly guaranteed in 2-3 days). Long story. It'll be here soon, and I'll be using it for those very same logs, and some more, hopefully.


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## Fudomyo (Jan 24, 2007)

I notice with my PMX picco chain that it doesn't fit in my longer bar's nose sprokets. Those nose sprokets look like they are 63 gage and the chain is so narrow it wont sit down. Maybe you are having the same issue with the LP??


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## aquan8tor (Jan 24, 2007)

No, it fits in the sprocket nose okay. It's .050ga, BTW, not that it matters.
When I rev the saw with the bar out of the cut, the chain actually jumps up in the middle of the bar by over half an inch, even when tensioned. Has anyone else tried using the lowpro on such a small bar??

edit: hey lumberjackchef; I'm sure you've been asked before, but what is the tree in your avatar? At first I thought black walnut, but ???


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## scottr (Jan 24, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> View attachment 44229
> 
> View attachment 44230
> 
> ...



N8 , your Ripsaw could be used to cut 1/8" veneer or thicker .


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## 00juice (Jan 24, 2007)

Would you all consider it safe to run the lowpro chain on an 084 with a 25" bar, or maybe even a 20" bar
Thanks


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## 59Billy (Jan 24, 2007)

I've been running granberg ripping chain on a Stihl 290 with a 20" bar (.325x .063).

I'm thinking about buying a 16", .05 gauge bar and putting Bailey's LP chain on it. I'm thinking it'll make it easier on the saw. Feel free to point out the flaws in my thinking.


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## aquan8tor (Jan 25, 2007)

scottr said:


> N8 , your Ripsaw could be used to cut 1/8" veneer or thicker .



I'd love to use it for veneer, but I don't have a carriage for it. The slices i cut off for squaring the log up are too small to allow the saw to slide over it. I've got a 14" rigid bandsaw that I've been looking for a riser block for (found the rigid part # recently). and know someone with a jig I can copy. IT's just easier that way. Otherwise, I'm all over the ripsaw. I've got a box of a dozen blades just burning a hole in my pocket so to speak for when I get my logs home. opcorn:    :jester: 


I'm still at odds with whether or not the lowpro chain is for me or not. Cutting speed is great, but if it means I'm going to lose as much wood from extra planing as I would have lost by using the wider kerf normal 3/8 chain, then it just doesn't make sense. 

It certainly doesn't bog down the motor (I know I'm cutting narrow wood, but still; I could push almost as hard as I wanted with no decrease in engine speed).


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## aquan8tor (Jan 25, 2007)

Fudomyo said:


> I notice with my PMX picco chain that it doesn't fit in my longer bar's nose sprokets. Those nose sprokets look like they are 63 gage and the chain is so narrow it wont sit down. Maybe you are having the same issue with the LP??



Is the PMX picco chain .050 or .058?? I'm rethinking my fast answer. It seemed to go down into the sprocket okay, but if the sprocket is wider than the rest of the bar, that might explain some wobble.


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## scottr (Jan 25, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> I'd love to use it for veneer, but I don't have a carriage for it. The slices i cut off for squaring the log up are too small to allow the saw to slide over it. I've got a 14" rigid bandsaw that I've been looking for a riser block for (found the rigid part # recently). and know someone with a jig I can copy. IT's just easier that way. Otherwise, I'm all over the ripsaw. I've got a box of a dozen blades just burning a hole in my pocket so to speak for when I get my logs home. opcorn:    :jester:
> 
> 
> I'm still at odds with whether or not the lowpro chain is for me or not. Cutting speed is great, but if it means I'm going to lose as much wood from extra planing as I would have lost by using the wider kerf normal 3/8 chain, then it just doesn't make sense.
> ...


 N8 , what width boards are you trying to resaw ?


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## aquan8tor (Jan 25, 2007)

about 8-10". I'm likely going to replace the motor on it with a 2HP unit. The 3/4 that it came with is probably not going to do it. I haven't resawn anything on it before, so this is all new. I've read a bunch, and a good friend is a master cabinetmaker, so I've got a good learning curve.


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## Railomatic (Jan 25, 2007)

*New ripping chains*

This is what I have been doing for quite some time, I have been using these kinds of chains for for some years now, cannon bars have interchangable tips and sprockets, I have mentioned it a few times before.

On my 088 and 880 I use a 325 conversion with a 9 toothed sprocket, and on the 660 I use 1/4" as does Logosol today.

Its not a new concept really, it has all been done before and now comes around again as a new product, but it definately works better for the CSM's.

Happy milling.


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## scottr (Jan 25, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> about 8-10". I'm likely going to replace the motor on it with a 2HP unit. The 3/4 that it came with is probably not going to do it. I haven't resawn anything on it before, so this is all new. I've read a bunch, and a good friend is a master cabinetmaker, so I've got a good learning curve.



N8 , that is plenty wide to resaw on the ripsaw . The aluminum guide beam is only 6" wide and you balance the ripsaw on it . All you need is table or saw horses to work on . Unless you are determined to buy another motor and a resaw block for the rigid bandsaw .


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## aquan8tor (Jan 25, 2007)

The thing is the pieces I need to resaw are only about 24-36" long. I'm confused how to resaw something that size safely.


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## scottr (Jan 25, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> The thing is the pieces I need to resaw are only about 24-36" long. I'm confused how to resaw something that size safely.



N8 , if you have a scrap 2X then you could C clamp it to a table then use a nail or block of wood to hold the resaw board in place .


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## Fudomyo (Jan 25, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> Is the PMX picco chain .050 or .058?? I'm rethinking my fast answer. It seemed to go down into the sprocket okay, but if the sprocket is wider than the rest of the bar, that might explain some wobble.



It's .050. They make PMN (Narrow) too and it's .043.


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## 1953greg (Jan 25, 2007)

*Lumberjackchef*



lumberjackchef said:


> Sure coulda used that Lewis Winch in that last couple of pics huh?
> BTW those boards are very nice. I have used some of baileys chain on a 48" mill and it seemed from your closer pics to be same roughness that my slabs turned out. The speed was impressive as well. I have experimented with angles quite a bit since I got my grinder. If that's too rough then you could always change the angle of the cutter. The closer to 0 degrees top plate angle, the smoother the cut, but this will also slow down the speed of your cut a bit. JMTC. Anyway what cha gonna make out of that spalted maple?



where did u find a 48" 3/8 .050ga bar??? everything i find over 36" is .063ga.


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## aquan8tor (Jan 25, 2007)

scottr said:


> N8 , if you have a scrap 2X then you could C clamp it to a table then use a nail or block of wood to hold the resaw board in place .



I'm trying to visualize this; sometimes I'm a little challenged, but I gotta see it to understand it. How would you keep the metal guide plank up off the surface---my scraps are round on one side. Also, would you just re-adjust the cut height at each pass? Seems like a really good, inventive idea, BTW.


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## flht01 (Jan 25, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> I'm trying to visualize this....



Here's a few of the _classic_ ripsaw threads just in case you haven't had a chance to read them.

This first one shows a really nice stand you can build to use either a csm or ripsaw on for smaller logs or resawing cants. If you decide to build one, *woodshop* sent me a drawing and enough pictures to build it by. Just let me know and I'll create a zip file to send you.
Milling lumber woodshop style


This thread shows enough detail on sawhorses for csm or ripsaw use, very handy.

small milling horses


And last, *woodshop's* method of handling big logs when you don't have the luxury of big equipment.
getting 1000lb cant up on horses


There are more, but these threadswill give you a good idea on some of the better methods of handling small and big wood with a csm type mill.

Once you see the resaw stand *woodshop* built for smaller wood it'll make it a lot easier to picture what *scottr* is talking about.


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## scottr (Jan 25, 2007)

*Slabs*



aquan8tor said:


> I'm trying to visualize this; sometimes I'm a little challenged, but I gotta see it to understand it. How would you keep the metal guide plank up off the surface---my scraps are round on one side. Also, would you just re-adjust the cut height at each pass? Seems like a really good, inventive idea, BTW.


 N8 , what you are now talking about is to make some veneer from some slabs . Take a scrap 2X and place 4 nails in it 2 on each end to cradle the rounded side of your slab . Adjust the guide finger of the ripsaw up so it will be even with the dimension plate and run the ripsaw on the flat side of the slab . The guide beam is not necessary .


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## iacornfed (Jan 25, 2007)

*pico or low pro chain*

I use baileys chain and stihls' chain on my 066. I use a rim sprocket from baileys. I mill on a logosol m7. I have used 16" bars and 20". I like the 20" better because i can sqaure up larger dia. logs. As for strength , I have hit lots of nails and wire which have never broken a chain. I have broken a few due to dull chain or worn bars on dried red oak.


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## aquan8tor (Jan 26, 2007)

scottr said:


> N8 , what you are now talking about is to make some veneer from some slabs . Take a scrap 2X and place 4 nails in it 2 on each end to cradle the rounded side of your slab . Adjust the guide finger of the ripsaw up so it will be even with the dimension plate and run the ripsaw on the flat side of the slab . The guide beam is not necessary .



I gotcha now. I had seen the pics on cant milling, but not small stuff. I'm not trying to go too thin; maybe 3/4" for 1/2 after planing. Thought about jewelry boxes or something like that.


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## scottr (Jan 26, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> I gotcha now. I had seen the pics on cant milling, but not small stuff. I'm not trying to go too thin; maybe 3/4" for 1/2 after planing. Thought about jewelry boxes or something like that.


 Did you change your plan on the veneer or change projects ? I wanted to add that a notched bunk is also good to hold a slab or cant for resawing . I'm not sure that you need 3/4" or 1/2" for jewelry boxes .


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## scottr (Jan 26, 2007)

*Link*

Here is a link to free jewelry box plans . http://www.freeww.com/jewelrybox.html


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## aquan8tor (Jan 29, 2007)

Thanks for the link. Sorry I wasn't clearer on the useage. I'm planning to use the slabs for a tabletop and hopefully make some thin slices from the round cutoffs. There's still a lot of good wood in the slices I made to square the cants, and a lot of burls as well. I just don't want to waste it. That's the veneer I'm talking about. I must've been tired when I wrote the other post. I've been thinking about beefing up the motor on the shop bandsaw for some time anyway, though. I had never thought about using the ripsaw to resaw, though. Anybody use one on a carriage??


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## 2cyblowtrch (Feb 6, 2007)

*"lo-pro" chain*

I'm using carlton's lo-pro .365 on a 32" 050 3/8 bar mounted on a 3120 w/ported muffler and un-EPA'ed carb. It wails away just fine. A friend and myself
launched into a 14" black birch log this past weekend with great success and 
that baby was WELL frozen. O' yeah, used an 8 tooth on the above rig.


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