# Had a whoops moment today and need advice



## ryan_marine (Sep 12, 2011)

Bucking some large cotton wood trees today and tossed a chain on the 32" bar. It cought my chaps and have a nice bruise on my knee. But now the question: Do I need to replace my chaps now that they have a small cut to the kevlar? The kevlar does not apear to be cut. I tucked it back in to the hole. I can sew the outside back shut. But should I replace them? I was thinking about heading to the saw shop in the morning to see what they say. But I figured I would ask on here first. I am glad I had them on. The chain might not of sent me to the hospital for stiches but It would of defently would of layed the skin open.

Thanks

Ray


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## 2dogs (Sep 12, 2011)

Whatever you do do NOT sew through the Kevlar. The material needs to pull out and clog the chain sprocket. You did not say how long the cut is but let's say it was 1" long. Tuck the material back in and use some shoo-goo or Tear Mender on the surface. 

BTW how do you know your chaps are Kevlar? Most discount/saw shops sell cheap garbage like Stihl or Husqvarna. Does the tag say Kevlar? 

Anyway you should call the manufacturer and skip the saw shop.


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## madhatte (Sep 12, 2011)

Also depends on the number of plies. 6 is pretty good, 9 is great, 10 is best. If my memory isn't complete crap, the OSHA req't is 4 plies. SO: if you cut the shell and pull 2 plies on a 3-ply chap, they're done. Likewise if you pull 4 of 6. I pulled 1 of 9 once and repaired the damaged shell with duct tape and shoe goo. I am sure that's not advised, but I am sorta attached to them cuz they've already saved my bacon once.


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 12, 2011)

Just curious, do you have a "chain catcher" on the saw you were using?

View attachment 198846


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## MtnHermit (Sep 12, 2011)

Curious, did your chain break or did it come off in a loop?


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## hammerlogging (Sep 12, 2011)

ryan_marine said:


> Bucking some large cotton wood trees today and tossed a chain on the 32" bar. It cought my chaps and have a nice bruise on my knee. But now the question: Do I need to replace my chaps now that they have a small cut to the kevlar? The kevlar does not apear to be cut. I tucked it back in to the hole. I can sew the outside back shut. But should I replace them? I was thinking about heading to the saw shop in the morning to see what they say. But I figured I would ask on here first. I am glad I had them on. The chain might not of sent me to the hospital for stiches but It would of defently would of layed the skin open.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ray


 
Well, your profile says you're a timbercutter, so I'm a little shocked here that this is a question cause this dilemna seems to me to be about as common as, whatever, work.

I think the OSHA rule is that the outer covering can be torn or mended but if anything of the functional part (like the Kevlar) is messed up they are supposed to be replaced. If you don't follow the rules, its you that can be fined.

Secretly, if you have some chap innards sticking out, you can burn it off with a lighter and it gets things straightened up nicely. 

The problem here is, you'll almost always hit yourself in the same spot (left thigh) so damage there matters since you'll pretty darn well get hit there again.

Sounds like 2dogs was right.

I switched to .063 and throw my chain way less often.

Hermit, I am sure he threw the loop, its common.


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## 2dogs (Sep 13, 2011)

hammerlogging said:


> Sounds like 2dogs was right.


 
Even a blind nut finds a squirrel now and then.


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## Gologit (Sep 13, 2011)

hammerlogging said:


> The problem here is, you'll almost always hit yourself in the same spot (left thigh) so damage there matters since you'll pretty darn well get hit there again.
> 
> Sounds like 2dogs was right.


 
2dogs is right every once in awhile...just enough to keep us on our toes.  Why take a chance, get some new chaps.


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## ryan_marine (Sep 19, 2011)

Sorry it took so long to get back. (old cutting partner got cut with chaps on) Will post pics in injury page. I was asking because I have never cut a pair so lightly. I know what kevlar is because I have pulled shrapnel out of enough flack jackets. These are a pair of "pro" from stihl. They are ANSI and OSHA approved. It was just as I thought only the outer shell was cut. The edges of the shell where they were cut; I melted and sewed together. I did not melt the kevlar. They went back together nicely with 30# test spider wire.

Ray


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## Philbert (Sep 19, 2011)

Generally, if you just tear the outer cover, it is OK to sew and repair. If you snag the innards, they did their job and it's time to replace.

They use a variety of fibers on the innards - what matters is whether they pass the ANSI/UL tests. As noted, you don't want to sew through these fibers when repairing the shell.

Best thing to do with old chaps? Take them to the next GTG and do some live demos / tests.

Philbert


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## ryan_marine (Sep 19, 2011)

Good idea on the old ones. I have never seen it first hand.

Ray


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## skidoo52 (Sep 20, 2011)

my stihl shop recomends using an iron on patch


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## 056 kid (Sep 20, 2011)

I always loved strapping on a pair of chaps with about a grocery bags worth of chips in the bottoms from an accumulation of holes.


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## mingo (Sep 20, 2011)

skidoo52 said:


> my stihl shop recomends using an iron on patch


 
I've done it and it works well as long as you haven't tore the kevlar up.


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## sierratree (Sep 21, 2011)

In my experience, each chaps manufacturer has different ratings and specs for cut through. Keep in mind, that when chaps are tested, they are tested as you get them brand new. So, if you end up with multiple repairs, the test rating will most likely not be as with "as new" chaps. 

Also, older chaps are tested to match slower chain speeds. And with newer saws, the chain speeds run as high as 3200 feet per second, whereas older chaps test out at around 2500 feet per second. That's a big difference if you are running a new, ported saw.

So when you check out chaps to purchase, look at the FPS rating, as well.

If there is a pile of saw dust in the bottoms of your chaps, time to get a new pair. Also, the chaps should cover a portion of the top of your boot, around 2". Many saw injuries occur above the boot and below the chaps (your shin)...(because the chaps are too short). 

Chaps are pain to wear in the woods, always tripping over the straps. But when you see the chaps that withstood that 4" cut..... better the chaps, than your inner leg or knee.


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## imagineero (Sep 24, 2011)

I always try to add a patch to the left thigh on my chaps before they get wrecked because it's a high wear area for me. I've got a bad habit when I'm up in the tree with a bar over 2' that If I have to stop for a moment to mess around with the rope or whatever and already have the saw in hand I don't want to lower it back down on the strop, especially if its getting close to the end of a long day and I'm out of steam. I sometimes sit the saw cross ways on my wire core lanyard if I'm on spikes, or sometimes will rest the bar on my left thigh. Over time, lots of little 'pick points' start showing up on that left thigh there. Will also sometimes rest the saw that way if I'm sharpening and havent got anything to sit the saw on.

The other high wear point for me is the knees. They get worn out stumping. Would be nice if someone came out with a pair of real heavy duty chaps - serious canvas like on filsons double tin pants, heavy 10 ply in the front, 6 ply in the back of the calves. leather knee patch and a leather patch on the left thigh. Belt loops for a real belt, a wedge pouch n the left leg that doesn't fill up with chips and pockets that zip up I'd pay $450 for them, maybe even $500. Over in aus, even the pro stihl ones are about $350 though.

Do repair the tear quick though, or soon you'll be catching that kevlar on every little thing and making fluff out of it. Then you will need new chaps ;-) 

Shaun


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## Philbert (Sep 24, 2011)

imagineero said:


> I always try to add a patch to the left thigh on my chaps . . . Would be nice if someone came out with a pair of real heavy duty chaps - . . . leather knee patch and a leather patch on the left thigh. . .


 
A place like Labonville might do some custom work for you. Otherwise, it is fairly easy to modify a new pair, if you start with the chaps closest to what you want. 

Open up the side seams and you can sew on additional patches, etc., to the outer fabric only, then re-sew the side seams without snagging the protective fiber bats. It is a pretty easy task for anyone with a sewing machine, if you don't want to do it by hand. Or, you can take them to a tailor or repair shop if you don't know anyone who sews. They could add the belt loops, pouches, even embroider your name if you want, and cost you well under the amount you quoted.

I had modify my Husqvarna wrap chaps as the back flap would slide and leave that area unprotected. Had to sew the straps to the outer fabric for another 6" or so.

Philbert






View attachment 200392


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## Veteran (Sep 25, 2011)

If chaps save a trip too the emergeny room maybe it's worth buying a new pair.Last trip too the E room ,could have bought 10 pair.


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## sierratree (Sep 28, 2011)

you got away cheap............


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## Philbert (Oct 3, 2011)

*Photo from a recent GTG Event*

I saw it. I asked. You guessed it. A past 'Whoops' moment another guy had. Also saw another guy with 'Whoops' moments on both of his shoes.

More common than some people realize.

Philbert


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## hammerlogging (Oct 3, 2011)

peeing his pants or tearing his pant leg?


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## Philbert (Oct 3, 2011)

hammerlogging said:


> peeing his pants or tearing his pant leg?


 
Actually, did not notice the other thing. But, if it was me, they could have occurred in quick succession!

Philbert


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## BigGthetree (Oct 4, 2011)

Been there done that. If you patch the surface by either sewing or patching, you could be interfering with the planned "tear and react(the Kevlar)" of the design of your chaps. Tried sewing them once with 40# fishing line and the saw snagged the heavy line and tore deeper into the chaps. Same damn spot each and every time. Can't tell you how many pairs of sweat pants I've cut over the years. Buy another set of chaps. Keep the damaged ones as extras for emergencies. Someone who sews saddles, seat covers, backpacks and such can repair yours so it won't be too far from the original designed planned failure of the chaps when cut. Be safe.


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## Gologit (Oct 4, 2011)

hammerlogging said:


> peeing his pants or tearing his pant leg?


 
Hey now...that guy is dedicated. He doesn't quit working just for something minor like having to piss. He must be working by the foot.


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