# Have a couple questions. Plz help!



## Insometry (Mar 18, 2006)

Hey guys! Great to see such a community for the tree climbers. Anyways, Im new to this. Just bought a split suspension cotton arborist saddle, slick line throw line kit, 150' of 1/2" Arbor-Plex, Petzl Ascension ascender, basic figure-eight, auto-locking carabiner, pre-tied Technora prusik loop, 24" nylon sling, 1/4" quick link, and a ascender foot sling.

Also got a rigging system. I got movies and books for rigging, but I failed to get enough information on how to set up the actual rope climbing stuff above. (I also have the tree climbers companion)

How do you put the harness, Petzl Ascension ascender, basic figure-eight, auto-locking carabiner, pre-tied Technora prusik loop, 24" nylon sling, 1/4" quick link, and the ascender foot sling all together!? 

I know how to get the line in the tree, ect...

But I cant figure out the system for me. How to attach myself to the rope with all the above pieces. 

Could anyone help or send me to a couple simple pictures or something? 

It would be GREATLY appreciated.


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## okietreedude1 (Mar 18, 2006)

Go ask the guy that you bought all that from.

Looks to me like you bought a lot of advanced climbing system gear when you needed to get just the basic starter stuff.

BTW, where in Kansas are you?


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## BigUglySquirrel (Mar 18, 2006)

okietreedude1 said:


> Go ask the guy that you bought all that from.
> 
> Looks to me like you bought a lot of advanced climbing system gear when you needed to get just the basic starter stuff.
> 
> BTW, where in Kansas are you?



I'd agree with that statement. If you don't know your basic tie-in procedure and a friction hitch of one type or another you really have no business even buying the gear...let alone a rather advanced rig. This isn't something that you just buy the parts and read the instructions. You NEED someone who knows what the hey they're doing to "show you the ropes" so to speak. If you don't have an experienced teacher all the great gear you bought is just going to get you hurt or killed. 

After being shown over sometime, I had to demonstrate that I was capable before I ever left the ground. You need to have someone to gauge your abilities. 

Don't leave the ground untill you can properly check your equipment, plan your ascent, set your line, properly tie in, tie the friction hitch that's appropriate (without thinking it through!!) and safely identify any hazards. You also need to know how to get out of the tree in case of an emergency. 

Buying the gear doesn't mean that you're ready. This question leads me personally to believe that you truly aren't. Please be careful. Try to find someone local to work with till you are. And as a heads-up....it's not going to happen over a weekend.


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## Insometry (Mar 18, 2006)

_Go ask the guy that you bought all that from._

He is closed over the weekend - located out of state. He told me instructions would be included but either the instructions weren't as good as I was expecting, or he forgot to put them in. He's a great guy though. Been really helpful. 

Really wanting to find some pictures or something to read up on it as much as possible before trying stuff at 10 feet. 

I live in Johnson County Kansas.

_Looks to me like you bought a lot of advanced climbing system gear when you needed to get just the basic starter stuff._

Well...that maybe true. I am planning to meet with a guy that does rope tree removals in these parts Monday or Tuesday. 

What is "basic starter stuff?" I dont see how a couple of ascender are out of the ordinary for beginning rope/tree climbers. Or the harness. What else is more then your basic rope climbing set up (that saves energy)? 

_If you don't know your basic tie-in procedure and a friction hitch of one type or another you really have no business even buying the gear...let alone a rather advanced rig. _

I know the knots ect... I just want something to look at to make sure I have the following in the correct spot/order: basic figure-eight (before and while ascending)., auto-locking carabiner (and how it is used in relation to the rope and the following items, pre-tied Technora prusik loop, 24" nylon sling, 1/4" quick link. 

Thanks for your the concern guys. I'm in Kansas - trees are short. (jk)  

But really, I'm not foolish around heights. I have a guy "showing me the ropes" in a few days. Doing this with a couple other guys. Just getting started.

I have to start somewhere right? 

All I need is a picture or something of the basic harness setup to make sure I know where everything should go.

Edit: county


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## okietreedude1 (Mar 19, 2006)

Johnson county eh....

Being that the KC area, look up Treejunkie, Davidsinatree, redbull, or bottlefed89. 

These guys are all in the KC area and these are there AS handles. Treejunkie is a VERY experienced climber and may be willing to show you some things. Drop him a pmail and ask. I know the other guys are experienced as well but Ive never had the opportunity to see them climb or work with them on a job site.

As for having short trees, there are a lot of BIG trees in your neck of the woods. You want short, go to Goodland. 

One final piece of advise (in case you havent already been told or read)....Start slow and stay low.


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## clearance (Mar 19, 2006)

Basic means spurs and a steelcore flipline, according to the experts here. Easy to climb with spurs and a steelcore, any hack can do it, listen up, you gotta walk before you run. All that fancy stuff is for fancy people, spurs, steelcore, tautline=been working for ever.


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## Insometry (Mar 19, 2006)

Was under the impression that spurs could damage the trees. Most of the stuff I would be doing would be trimming/pruning/dead limb removal. Not full on tree removal. 

Thanks alot okietreedude1. I will PM them.


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## jmack (Mar 19, 2006)

*yes*



Insometry said:


> Was under the impression that spurs could damage the trees. Most of the stuff I would be doing would be trimming/pruning/dead limb removal. Not full on tree removal.
> 
> Thanks alot okietreedude1. I will PM them.


yes your right spikes for removals only. you got a lot o gear , ask for the simple stuff first taughtline hitch monkey knot and a bowline on your saddle slo/low body thrust try it a on low limb put yor rope arond the trunk tho. ,work into the shiny stuff good luck`


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## antigrassguy (Mar 19, 2006)

Good set of toys ya got there. I didnt see a scare strap in the list. Did ya get one of these? All your ascending stuff wont be any good if ya dont have one cause now your up a tree without a secondary tie in. I guess you could use ascender stuff and put 8 below the hardware and descend but thats it. Grab saddle, and rope and a scare strap(?) and put the rest in a box for later. No strap..... hip thrust is now your Ascension method, to remain tied in at all times. You will find this very fun and rewarding. Try to pick a nice warm day to practice 2. I guess you could tie exploding monkey paw with climbing line, set rope around main trunk 20'-30' up, get prusik, learn how to foot lock, once in tree with presik still in place pull up a tail to tie in a friction hitch then undo presik and climb around and descend. But that is a spaghetti mess around ya during tie in stuff so check and recheck before moving. After you have learned how to do this well then move to mechanical toys. Did ya get a cambium saver? Might as well go all out. Practice setting your life line in tree with cambium saver. All from ground. Welcome to the wonderful world of tree climbing. Its fun and exciting and scary all at the same time. Read and reread your Tree Climbers Companion untill you have all pages tattered and worn. P.S Im bought  a F-16 fighter plane, anybody know how to start this thing?


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## Insometry (Mar 19, 2006)

_I didnt see a scare strap in the list. Did ya get one of these?_
Yeah. Steel core - I think its a 10 or 12 footer. Cant remember.

Thanks for the steps. Will do.

_Read and reread your Tree Climbers Companion untill you have all pages tattered and worn._

Working on third time.

_P.S Im bought a F-16 fighter plane, anybody know how to start this thing?_

Sure thing. Three bottons first. Right hand side - yellow button. Red switch above and to your left. Button in front of seat that is orange. 

Then hit the engage engine button. Should be good to go. 



Thanks for your help. 

Jonathan


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## Tree Planter (Mar 19, 2006)

anybody use the swabich it is what i have been using and i too am new climbing but this knot lets u ascend and decend with no fuss


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## Redbull (Mar 19, 2006)

Jonathan, who are you meeting up with? I live in North Kansas City and I am planning another get together this Spring (when the snow melts WTF!). It will be lots of fun, good brats, and you might learn a thing or two about climbing.
Ill keep you posted. Meanwhile, if you would like to hook up and go over the basics, just holler at me. Goodluck and climb safe.


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## Insometry (Mar 20, 2006)

Sup redbull? Thanks alot for the offer. I would love to meet this spring - if you guys dont mind a noob hanging around pretending to laugh at climbers jokes with words I really dont know the meaning of.  

Im 21. Got an 18 and 20 year old guy working with me. We live in the Olathe area. 

Tentatively, meeting up with a guy named Jeff Cochran. (I dont know if I spelled that right...and if you are on this site Jeff - I apologize. Noah hasn't given me the spelling of your name. ) I'm not sure when we are meeting with him however, and I would love to go over the basics as much as possible. If you have time - I can drive up north with my guys and meet you - go over some basic starter stuff and then take you out to lunch (or dinner) at a place of your choosing. Let me know what you think. 

Thanks alot for the support and feedback guys. Will use as much as possible. 

Jonathan


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## Redbull (Mar 20, 2006)

I'll start planning something now, and as soon as the snow melts and ground isn't muddy, we'll hang out. I'll try and get a couple of the other local guys out. Last time we had six of us up in my Burr Oak at one time. Lots of fun, even for the noobs. Theres pics of our little get together at the end of this thread http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=28622
I'll keep you posted.


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## Insometry (Mar 20, 2006)

Sounds awesome redbull. Im excited. Pics look great.

Here are the instructions the place I ordered from sent me via email. 

Rope Climbing Kit Instructions

Your rope climbing kit should include the following items:

•	Saddle
•	Climbing line
•	Hand ascender
•	Foot ascender
•	Foot pro ascender strap
•	Nylon webbing loop
•	Steel quick link
•	Throw line
•	Throw weight
•	Throw line storage bag
•	Figure 8
•	Prusik loop 

1.	Begin by putting on the saddle, making sure that all buckles are properly secured. The waist belt and leg straps should be snug, but not tight. Take note of the d-rings on the saddle. The d-rings located on each hip are for a positioning lanyard or flipline. The d-ring(s) located in the center close to the belly button are for the climbing line.

2.	Install the climbing line in the tree:
a.	Tie the throw weight on the end of the throw line
b.	Choose a strong, well-positioned crotch and throw the weight through it using an underhanded toss.
c.	Tie the climbing line to the end of throw line without the throw weight.
d.	Pull the rope up into the tree with the throw line by pulling on the end with the weight attached.
e.	Once both ends of the climbing line are reaching the ground, untie the throw line from the climbing line.
f.	Stuff the throw line into the storage bag, starting with the end that does not have the weight and grabbing approximately 1 foot at a time.
g.	Tie one end of the climbing line securely to the base of the tree so that it will not slide up the trunk, or tie a running bowline and snug the knot up against the branch. Either way, make sure one end of the climbing line is tied to the tree.

3.	Attach the hand ascender to end of climbing line that is not tied to the tree at chest height.

4.	Attach the Foot Pro Ascender Strap onto the hand ascender using the aluminum quick link on one end. It should go onto either of the two holes at the bottom of the hand ascender.

5.	Put on the foot ascender. If you are right handed, put it on your left foot. If you are left handed, put in on your right foot.

6.	Attach the auto-locking carabiner to the center d-ring(s) on the saddle.

7.	Using the steel quick link, attach the nylon webbing loop to the other hole in bottom of the hand ascender.

8.	Now attach the nylon webbing loop to the carabiner on the saddle. This will provide a secure attachment to the rope if you decide to rest on the way up.

9.	Tie the prusik loop onto the climbing line above the hand ascender using a prusik knot. Make sure to carefully dress and set the knot so that it will grab if the ascender should fail.

10.	Attach the other end of the prusik loop to the carabiner on the saddle.

11.	Attach the foot ascender to the climbing line.

12.	Put your other foot into the stirrup of the Foot Pro Ascender Strap.

13.	Climb the rope by alternating your weight from one foot to the other, always advancing the ascender with no weight in it.

14.	While you are still low to the ground, it may be necessary to reach down and pull the rope through the foot ascender in order to advance it. As you get higher, the weight of the rope below the ascender will be enough to do this for you.

15.	As you advance the hand ascender, the prusik knot above it should also be advanced by the ascender.

16.	When you are ready to go down, slide the prusik knot up the climbing line and set your weight in it so that there is no longer any tension on the nylon webbing loop.

17.	Reach down and remove the foot ascender from the climbing line, leaving it attached to your foot.

18.	Disconnect the hand ascender and nylon webbing loop from the climbing line and also from the carabiner on the saddle. Attach both items to the back of the saddle where they are out of the way.

19.	Get out your figure 8 and thread the climbing line into it (see picture x).

20.	Connect the figure 8 to the carabiner on the saddle.

21.	Holding the tail of rope below the figure 8 firmly in the down position, reach up and slowly pull down on the prusik knot until your weight is back on the climbing line.

22.	Raise your hand holding the climbing line below the figure 8 until you start to feel the rope slip and yourself descend. As you descend, let the rope run through one hand while the other hand pulls the prusik down with you. If you let go, the prusik loop should come tight and stop your fall. Experiment with changing the angle at which the climbing line enters the figure 8 by moving your hand with the rope in it up and down (see picture). A more aggressive angle will create more friction with the figure 8 and slow your descent. A less aggressive angle will reduce the friction and accelerate your descent.

23.	While descending, try to go slowly and smoothly without any stops and starts if possible.

24.	Once you reach the ground, disconnect everything and pull the rope out of the tree.


Any of thoughts?


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## okietreedude1 (Mar 20, 2006)

OKay, that will get you to your tie in point....now what? 

why dont you give me a call and Ill get you in the direction of moving out ward in the tree. It will cost you some $ in the means of more gear, but youll also talk to an experienced arborist.

As for the directions, I can picture the process in my head and it doesnt seem to be that complicated, but for someone with no experience, I can see how it could be confusing.


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## Insometry (Mar 21, 2006)

_OKay, that will get you to your tie in point....now what? _

Im assuming you advance the tie in if you need to. 
I have a 12' U.S. Rigging 5/8" Steel Core Flipline as well.

I have no idea how to move out in the tree though.  I would love to call and talk to you, but at the moment I cant afford buying more equipment...cash flow is to tight with my main business. So I dont want to waste your time...

Let me know if you still dont mind the call. You could explain what I need to get and do - so when I have the money I can call you up.

Jonathan


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## Grace Tree (Mar 21, 2006)

*This may help*

Not sure if you you've been to this site but it has some good video. 

http://www1.brcc.edu/murray/Arboriculture/tree_climbing/default.htm

Phil


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## Insometry (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks small wood.

Alright guys - been climbing. Got a local guy to show me how to climb using ONLY the Prussic (sp?) hitch. Used that a few times...then tried my ascenders. My foot ascender (a petzel) keeps slipping off the rope. When I raise my foot, the rope pulls against the silver section that catches it, opening it up and letting the rope out. It sucks (and is hard to get out of an ascender system hanging there. lolol) Any ideas? Anyone else use an ascender system? (Hand/foot) Can you give me some idea on what Im doing wrong? 

Im right handed - have the foot piece on the inside of my left foot.


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## Redbull (Mar 27, 2006)

Put the Pantin on your RIGHT foot. That helps.


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## Grace Tree (Mar 27, 2006)

*Have a couple questions. Plz help!*

I think most people have a bit of trouble with the line coming out of the foot ascender when they first try it. It's just a matter of technique. The out and back movement that's causing it to come out is useful for flipping the rope out when you want to climb off the pantin. It may help for now to tie a short loop of throw line to the slot in the "silver part" of the pantin. You can reach down and give it a quick grab and you won't end up hanging there with your knee up by your chin. 
Just keep trying; you'll get it. 
Phil


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## Insometry (Apr 8, 2006)

Hey guys. Thanks again for the response. 

Here is a pic. of my coworker, JP, up in a tree. Our job is to trim/clean up 7.5 feet up down to ground (Unless it is bigger than around 8"), and cut out dead limbs. Wish we could clean the tree up more - cause they need it. But not getting paid to do that. Anyways...









Red = dead that we cut out - the big one he is next to we rigged for the heck of it. 

Showed you his tie in points. 

The area I have a question about is circled in purple. This whole limb branches off the tree about 4 feet up. Its a good foot to foot and a half in diameter. The biggest part, the top section, is completely dead and broke off. It has a couple average health branches coming off the bottom side (under the dead broke section), however they are injured in the marked areas. Those branches eventually hang down to about 6 feet up (over the drive). I think the limb could go completely, though we would recommend that and bid it seperately (lot bigger than 8"). What do you guys think? The dead/injured area is marked in blue.

I totally understand if there isn't enough info. I'm just seeing the process you guys go through in deciding how much of a limb to keep and when to keep it. 

I also just wanted to post our first tree pic.  

Thanks again! 

P.S. If you are looking for a chainsaw - we haven't bought an "in tree" one yet. Just got a stihl for ground cut ups - but none of us want to take it into the tree until we get better tree legs. Pretty heavy. Saving up for a in tree one. (Stihl 190 prolly)


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## Insometry (Apr 8, 2006)

Tried resizing it so you dont have to scroll. Wasn't sucessful.  

The pic only shows about half of the tree btw. Big trunk with lots of main branch offs a few feet up. JP (climber) is about 35-40 feet up as far as we can tell. 

Insom


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## treeseer (Apr 8, 2006)

How injured is the area in blue? I see some good upright laterals growing off of it. I'd take off the droopers to give the clearance and reduce the sprawlers but i would not remove the branch just because of a little crack or a little decay.

if that limb is 18+" dia. then the wound may never heal and the trunk would be hollow. A lot worse for the tree and the tree owner than a little injury way out on the periphery.


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## clearance (Apr 9, 2006)

1)Put on your saddle 2) put on your sprurs 3) throw your steelcore around the tree, make sure both ends are attached to your saddle 4) walk up the tree. Buddy, do a few easy removals first, best yet head out into the bush and practice stripping and chunking a few trees, this will get you comfortable. Save all that fancy stuff for later, what you are describing is a gong show, why so complicated right away?


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## rebelman (Apr 9, 2006)

Clarence, try reading THE TREE CLIMBERS COMPANION, and A NEW TREE BIOLOGY. You might learn something. We could use another strong willed, intelligent guy in our field. Maybe you'll care.


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## Redbull (Apr 9, 2006)

clearance said:


> 1)Put on your saddle 2) put on your sprurs 3) throw your steelcore around the tree, make sure both ends are attached to your saddle 4) walk up the tree. Buddy, do a few easy removals first, best yet head out into the bush and practice stripping and chunking a few trees, this will get you comfortable. Save all that fancy stuff for later, what you are describing is a gong show, why so complicated right away?



I thought I was reading the ARBORIST 101 forum. Aren't Arborists professionals who care for trees? So, Clearance, please explain what it is you doing piping in on this tree care thread?
(Besides trolling for someone like me to take a bite)


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## clearance (Apr 9, 2006)

It is good to get comfortable first, is it not?, the security of being well planted in a tree with spurs and a steelcore is confidence biulding. Check out the picture, looks like the guy is on his knees, just waiting to slip and get it in the nuts from the tree, besides, that tree looks kinda scummy anyways wouldn't kill it to spur it. Tomorrow my boss is getting a new guy to climb, hopefully we can make something out of him, then I am sure he will want to leave, go to the city, spurless, and work for half the money, I'll recommend the book to him.


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## rebelman (Apr 9, 2006)

I would probably remove the area in question completely back to the collar at the trunk(not pictured). Even if it was healthy, it seems to have a limited future as a side trunk/outward growing nuisance branch.


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## Insometry (Apr 10, 2006)

Thanks for the feedback guys. 

_How injured is the area in blue? I see some good upright laterals growing off of it. I'd take off the droopers to give the clearance and reduce the sprawlers but i would not remove the branch just because of a little crack or a little decay._

In essence, the only uninjured part is the droppers, except for one small branch towards the end. 

_if that limb is 18+" dia. then the wound may never heal and the trunk would be hollow. A lot worse for the tree and the tree owner than a little injury way out on the periphery._ -- Yeah. Thats what where my catch 22 comes in. lol I thought I had a picture of the base, but I didn't know how to work our camera, and its actually a 5 second video. 

_I would probably remove the area in question completely back to the collar at the trunk(not pictured). Even if it was healthy, it seems to have a limited future as a side trunk/outward growing nuisance branch._

Thats exactly what we were thinking. Just wondering what everyone else thought from the limited info I could give them. (Since I am new ect...) Just trying to learn different thought processes (for trimming/pruning). 

_1)Put on your saddle 2) put on your sprurs 3) throw your steelcore around the tree, make sure both ends are attached to your saddle 4) walk up the tree. _

No offense - but I dont have spurs. We are trimming/pruning trees in the above picture. Not removing it. 

_Buddy, do a few easy removals first, best yet head out into the bush and practice stripping and chunking a few trees, this will get you comfortable._

If you are saying I need experience in removals in order to properly trim...I dont get you.  

I have removed several trees. (Though it was from the ground). And trimmed big limbs off of several more. My dad lived on a farm - we still head up there and cut up firewood ect... We heat most of our house with an insert and have for several years. I have experience when it comes to killing a tree/limb. I dont have as much when it comes to trimming...so. Bluntly. I dont think what you are saying applies to my questions.

_Save all that fancy stuff for later, what you are describing is a gong show, why so complicated right away?_

I dont consider it complicated. :?? Anyways - it needs to be done. Its our job. Cant stop now.  

_the security of being well planted in a tree with spurs and a steelcore is confidence biulding._

Look back in the pic. You will find a the climbers line in a crotch (true, he isn't hanging from it in the picture) ...but you will also find a Steel core planted above him. His weight is actually being held by that... (trusting your ropes anyone?) 

_looks like the guy is on his knees_

He was actually positioning himself at the moment of the picture if I remember right. Right foot is on a branch...he is moving his left foot up the limb in order to make another step up. He did have to work around that small dead upshoot. 

_that tree looks kinda scummy anyways wouldn't kill it to spur it._

All the trees there look scummy, thats why we are there. But I must ask...if there is trash in a parking lot - do you empty the trash that is in your truck in the parking lot? :greenchainsaw:


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## Insometry (Apr 18, 2006)

Back to the foot ascender question.

I have issolated the problem down to one thing. 

I cant get the petzel foot ascender to stay position on the side of my foot. The straps pull out until the ascender is above my laces and almost as high as my ankle.

Anyone else have this problem?

The straps seem to be set up properly. So its killing me.

Until then -- still just using the prussik ect...

Insom


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## Grace Tree (Apr 18, 2006)

*Foot Pantin*

Some people sew them. I got the straps where I wanted them and put two nylocs or nyties, whatever you call them in your area, on the vertical strap, pulled them down tight, and it's never loosened.
Phil


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## Insometry (Apr 18, 2006)

If you sew them, then how do you get them on? *confused*

Could you send a pic/link to "two nylocs or nyties?" I have no idea what those are. lol

Thank you so much!

Insom


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## Grace Tree (Apr 18, 2006)

Give me a little bit and I'll post a pic that may be easier than trying to explain.
Phil


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## Grace Tree (Apr 18, 2006)

*pantin pic*

Rubber O ring is from some industrial auction. Nyties hold strap and are placed with the locks out of the rope path on the ascender.http://users.adelphia.net/~plsmallwood/pantin.jpg


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## Insometry (Apr 18, 2006)

So you dont have any problem with the top strap coming loose? 

Thanks alot for the help...

I have those nyties. Just didn't know what they were called.


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## Grace Tree (Apr 18, 2006)

No, not ever. Once the bottom strap stays put the top strap doesn't seem to work loose; at least on mine. They've been on in the rain and snow and haven't come loose yet. It's a quick fix if it works for you.
Phil


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## Insometry (Apr 18, 2006)

Sounds amazing. Thanks alot for the work you put into helping me! 

 

Insom


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