# ArborWare "tech" pants



## Frans (Aug 19, 2004)

Just got a couple of pairs of these new pants.
I really like them, light weight, strong, and fit good enough to climb in.
It has been in the hundreds around here lately so these pants are good to wear with this kind of heat. Seems like they would work well in the rain also because they wont hold water and dry quickly.
Frans


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## NickfromWI (Aug 19, 2004)

Frans, what are those pants made out of?

love
nick


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## Guy Meilleur (Aug 19, 2004)

nick didn't you see these in pittsburgh? they are nylon. I love the pockets on the sides, great for camera, phone, whatnot. Very light, great for hot weather. their canvas ones would be winter only down here.


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## NickfromWI (Aug 19, 2004)

I was stuck in the trees in Maine...I wasn't at Pittsburgh. You're not confusing me with the OTHER Nick from Wisconsin, are you?

Arborwear Tech Pants Link 

love
nick


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## rumination (Aug 19, 2004)

Ouch! For that price I'll stick with the $5 blue jeans I get at the thrift store.


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## Frans (Aug 19, 2004)

I stopped wearing "dungerees" some time ago for working
They hold water (sweat) and cling to my legs which inhibit me from moving my legs.
I too wear the Ben Davis pants but always hated the goofy huge legs on them.
The tech pants are tailered with tapered legs so dont have alot of fabric flapping around but dont grab your legs either
I'll be picking up a few more soon. the cost is alright if you realize you get what you pay for and dont have the Walmart mentality.
The money for Arbor Wear goes to local folks who operate on a very small profit margin.
By the way did you know it costs around
$$10,000.00 $$$ to have a booth at any of the shows?
Frans


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rumination _
> *Ouch! For that price I'll stick with the $5 blue jeans I get at the thrift store. *



Yea, I remember seeing those pants. They look like they just might work. Butt, not at $80 a pair. Their freaking _workpants_ , fer chrissakes!!!


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## Guy Meilleur (Aug 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> * Butt, not at $80 a pair. Their freaking workpants , *


Man, with all the $$$$$ you make? wutchoo talkimboutboy?


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 19, 2004)

I could win the lottery, and I wouldn't pay those prices.

Unless, it wuz a promo shot, wid compensation.

:angel:


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## Guy Meilleur (Aug 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> * Unless, it wuz a promo shot, wid compensation.
> *


 We've all seen your photo dossier. :alien:

No one would offer you $$$$ to model legwear, unless their mind was rendered blunt by too many blunts.   :Monkey:


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## xander9727 (Aug 19, 2004)

Guy,
How do you know so much about Male modeling?

If your gonna stay in there at least turn the light on.


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 19, 2004)

Don't hate me cuz I'm beautiful!


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Guy Meilleur _
> *No one would offer you $$$$ to model legwear, unless their mind was rendered blunt by too many blunts. *



Blunts are for idiots.

And, my legs are _awesome!_


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## Nickrosis (Aug 21, 2004)

*Pants not MasterBlaster's legs*

Yes, I saw those pants. And I am from Wisconsin, and I am named Nick. But I can't splice like the other Nick.  

I'd buy a pair if I wasn't already short for my tuition bill, due in 4 days and 30 minutes. Now I'm wearing a $30 pair of ArborWear and really enjoying them. I'll probably buy another 3 pairs so I don't have to wash for 2 weeks. Right now, I've got about 8 pairs of ArborWear pants in varying sizes and styles and colors. 

Like Frans said, the company is like our company, small and friendly....just the kind that I would want to support.


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## a_lopa (Aug 21, 2004)

do you guys wear cut proof pants???i dont walk out the door with out them,and the padding saves a few bruises


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## Nickrosis (Aug 21, 2004)

You should. But if you're in the tree, you don't have to wear them. And if you're on the ground, you're probably not spending much time with a chainsaw. Me, for example....I used a chainsaw on the ground for about 3 minutes today.

Most chaps/saw pants are the kind that you snap on over what you're already wearing. Unless it's cold and you like the insulation all the time, in which case you can get the pants with built in protection. I would wear mine more often but the elastic waistband is about 3" shy of my 33" waist and 4" shy of my 34" inseam.


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## a_lopa (Aug 21, 2004)

no excuse not to wear them nick,theyve only got to save you once,even get some chaps sewn inside your work pants.i witnessed a bad cut it wasnt much fun.


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## Nickrosis (Aug 21, 2004)

That wasn't my point, though. I meant that buying and wearing the snap-over chaps is a good idea since you're only wearing them for a couple minutes a day.


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## Frans (Aug 21, 2004)

*chain saw cut resitant pants*

I have heard alot of talk about wearing chaps or saw pants over the years.
I know big companies require the use of them, logging companies require the guys working the landing bumping knots to wear them.
For me they are way to bulky and heavy to wear at all. The thought of wearing them in a tree is silly.
As for working the ground they slow me down to the point of being dangerous.
The fear factor many people talk about "better to be safe then horrribly cut" I think applies to inexperianced, incompetant, injury prone workers.
There is an entire industry of folks who have gone for years without using these pants. The fear mongers deal with this reality by simply ignoring it as if it was not a reality. I would bet that the majority of injuries happen to the folks i mentioned above and not to the core of working professionals.
It is like this new safety standard of not using a saw one handed. I cannot conceive of only using my 020T with both hands in the tree.
So to summerize 'aussie_lopa' I object to the practice of your "fear mongering"

If it works for you then go for it. It is so easy to run around like henny penny shouting the sky is falling, the sky is falling. 

It might be more productive to really apply yourself and attempt to become a better tree (man?) and not seek out potential 'what might happen' senarios.

For me wearing chaps is not an option for 90% of what I do- which is work trees, climbing and dragging brush, stuffing my chipper 5-6 days a week
Maybe I should wear my chaps while doing my bidding? Would that make me look more professional?
Frans


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## SteveBullman (Aug 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> *That wasn't my point, though. I meant that buying and wearing the snap-over chaps is a good idea since you're only wearing them for a couple minutes a day. *




couple of minutes a day?
sheeesh you should try working for a living


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## Trtd61 (Aug 21, 2004)

*Re: chain saw cut resitant pants*

The fear factor many people talk about "better to be safe then horrribly cut" I think applies to inexperianced, incompetant, injury prone workers.




Hmmm famous last words...


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## xander9727 (Aug 21, 2004)

Frans,
Your post shows your ingorance. I guess by your logic, I shouldn't wear a seat belt if I'm a good driver. Ask anyone and they'll tell you their an above average driver.......same applies for people in our profession and homeowners for that matter. Most people feel they are above average in their abilities. Protective gear isn't designed to be tested on a routine basis. If you find yourself having to rely on your PPE on a regular basis you're probably in the wrong job. Anyone can have a mishap. Is a little temporary discomfort worth a lifetime of disability? I won't preach that I always wear all of the necessary PPE or that I always do everything the right way. I do however strive to improve every day. I wear chaps on removals in the tree and on the ground when limbing and bucking. At times they can be a pain but 95% of the time I don't even notice them. I have been saved by chaps on one occasion. I was cutting brush on a steep slope, slipped and put the saw into my knee. I did it hard enough to make a deep bruise but it didn't break the skin. If you don't want to wear PPE you can easily justify it to yourself. However, if you injure yourself you'll find it harder to justify.

My $.02


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## Frans (Aug 21, 2004)

O.K. let me clarify.
What I am talking about is the mindless following of each and every new safety requirment that comes down the pike.
I too wear chaps, I wear them when I am working on landings. (in case you dont know what that is, it is when you have logs piled up ready to load and you need to cut the knots/limbs etc off of them)
I use them clearing brush/poison oak etc. 
I use them when cutting alot of firewood. It seems to me that many injuries happen in this situation.
What I do not do is wear them while climbing and for just everyday wear. 
Ignorance? poor choice of words but then again you dont know me, or my experiance or the monthly climbing skills, workshops, tail gate safety meetings,demo days, all of which I not only help to organize, participate in, and include in the quarterly newsletter (ca arborists association) of which I am the editor of.
I question the "statistics" is what I do. I believe the data taken and used to compile these "statistics" are not representitive of the industry as a whole. 
For example, on the news the other day was a "survey" of all voters. The newspaper had the headline "Voters leaning toward pulling out of Irag"!
In small print was the disclaimer that said the amount of people polled was 750 people in a verbal poll taken at a single location.with a factor of 3% error. 
In other words meaningless.

I question also the statistics touted by our industry I think they are working with data that is outdated.

For example when I go to a trade show (isa, TCIA) I notice that the folks there represent an incredibly small segment of our industry. The advanced climbing techniques, the new gear, etc are used by only a certain very small segment of the folks working trees everyday.
There is a vast population of people working and using techniques that are far behind what you see at a show.
In my neck of the woods every major trades company for example, the lumber companies, the major landscape companies, etc, etc, have all incorporated a vast hispanic community as there workers. This is a fairly recent development. The gathering of data reflecting injuries, what type of injuries, days lost to work, etc. is a very time consuming task.
knowing the insurance companies proclivity to present statistical data to reinforce their outlandish fee charging practices I just dont see how the data is up to date.
What influences the data used by insurence companies is things like the death that happened in a town near me called Napa, CA.
We talked about this on AS. The man was crushed to death by a branch his ground man did not let run. You can research this on a past thread if you want
This crew had no backup plan (the groundman could not speak english so could not tell the homeowner what happened or even to call 911, tried to free climb up the tree carrying a saw, but could not start the saw to cut his friend free)
But the real question is: are you a safe person? Anything can happen, Darwins theory of evolution is a reality not an idea.
Do you work safe? Do you ignore common sense safe working practices? Can you work for years safely?
What I dont agree is the sensless running around telling people they are unsafe. What do you know? Do you do trees everday? Is your whole life, your family, all your friends, connected with folks working and making a living working with trees all their lives?
Mine is.
To be unsafe means you are an unsafe person to be working and I dont want you on my payroll or my jobsite as a contractor.
Accidents happen, you can be the safest person in the world and something can happen, God forbid it should happen to anyone else including me. I have no objection to one of my climbers using chaps while climbing but for me personally I dont do it, I am safer without them.

I gotta stop ranting on AS

Sinceraly
Frans


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## xander9727 (Aug 21, 2004)

Frans,
If you need some tips on climbing safely with chaps I'm happy to educate you. Just pm or email me.
Ignorance is a lack of education. If you can't see how PPE can be benificial then you need to be educated.
Have you never heard of a climber being injured on his lower extremities with a chainsaw?
If you're as qualified as you say you are I expect more. Then again maybe your time has come and it's time for one of the newer thinking members of our community to take the reigns. Nothing stays the same, you're either getting better or getting worse. You have the ability to influence a large group of people. Knowing this you have a fiduciary responsibility to ensure you're as up to date as possible. People will believe what you say and like it or not you'll share some responsiblilty for their actions.


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## Froggy (Aug 21, 2004)

ArborWare, I love them in a tree, but the price is high. Some like Carhart. It seems as though they get a little tight in those streatched out situations. I guess you have to go with what you can afford. I think ArborWare would get more business if they would cut a few dollars off their price. Those "tech" pant are cool. I think they run about $69.95plus tax around here. I guess that would be a good B-day present.


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## jkrueger (Aug 21, 2004)

A fellow climber that I know, a tech climber, very experienced and a great rigger. Reported to me that he got a 10 cut in his leg that required stiches. He said it was the result of the bagy chain saw pants he was wearing in the tree that caught the chain and pulled it in.

Think we need to rethink the solutions given us by industry. I'm all for safty and we take what we are told as some form of 'truth'.

We need to speak up to the producers of these products and not make each other wrong.

Jack


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## xander9727 (Aug 21, 2004)

Would baggy arbortech pants have produced the same injury. There are always examples of how not wearing a helmet or a seatbelt saved a life. A lot of this is opinionated, I feel that in the majority of situations your better off with protection. I know that we need to balance productivity with safety but I do not feel that chainsaw chaps hinder productivity to a measurable level. It wasn't that long ago that chain breaks were thought to be a hinderance. (I think some people may still believe this.......)

New technologies often require us to learn new skills. But then again I know all about old dogs.......

Sorry MB that wasn't meant towards you, I don't want your senior citizens group to start protesting me. 

MB does your add say peer discounts?


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 21, 2004)

I do not advertise my services.


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## Frans (Aug 21, 2004)

xander9727 (or whatever your name is)
Can you tell me why OSHA backed off on the requirement that all arborists wear saw protective pants in the tree?
And could you tell me please why the ISA was instrumental in this decision?
I think you do not know what you are talking about but I would suggest you do due diligence before saying folks are unsafe.

Should you feel pain and uncertainty when you see what you percive as being unsafe working practices in others I would kindly suggest you seek benificial therapy immediately  
Frans


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## a_lopa (Aug 21, 2004)

as ive said before i dont walk out the door with out cut proof pants,frans saying that there hard to climb in is ridiculous,and or its to hot to wear them,nick even if you use a saw for a ''few minutes'' really makes me wonder just how saftey consious you are,if your already wearing them its not an issue to pick up a saw anytime chaps are just a waste of time collecting oil and dust in the tool locker.i dont know a climber or good groundie that doesnt wear them full time,its staggering the attitude towards something that can save your life,but i guess youll need to feel or see some pain to change your attitude(s)


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## xander9727 (Aug 22, 2004)

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that chaps offer protection from a contact injury from a chainsaw. I climb almost every day in chaps. I know for a fact it can be done efficiently and safely. I guess I'm a free thinker. I don't need to wait until I'm required to do something before I see the merits. I won't argue this point but it will be interesting to see the general concensus on this in 10 years.


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## Nickrosis (Aug 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by stephenbullman _
> *couple of minutes a day?
> sheeesh you should try working for a living *


har har


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## SteveBullman (Aug 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by xander9727 _
> *It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that chaps offer protection from a contact injury from a chainsaw. I climb almost every day in chaps. I know for a fact it can be done efficiently and safely. I guess I'm a free thinker. I don't need to wait until I'm required to do something before I see the merits. I won't argue this point but it will be interesting to see the general concensus on this in 10 years. *


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## SteveBullman (Aug 23, 2004)

oooooops

xander, just curious, if you climb everyday in chaps why not just buy a pair of trousers? they dont look half as gay and theres some real niceoneson the market now. I'm in stretch airs, lovely flexible trousers and breathable too
oh and chicks love em


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## Frans (Aug 23, 2004)

I am a superstious person.
All this talk about wearing saw pant/chaps has got me thinking and nervous.
Soooo after many years I am going to "get on board" with this crap (oops, I mean sensible, logical safety procedures/ practices)

What are "stretch airs"?
And what is the best top of the line chap/pant?
I am going to move this topic to another thread of it's own I think it should stand by itself.
Frans


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## Tom Dunlap (Aug 23, 2004)

I know a thing or two about the AW Tech pants. The first two pairs that I got were from the prototype batches. If I remember right, Sean Gere and I got a pair each to field test, Paul got one and one never got worn. Similar setup for the second batch of prototypes. The originals are a bit rough after being worn for this long so I bought two new pairs at the ISA show.

The material is a Cordura fabric. If you don't know what Cordura is, Google will fill you in. Short answer, a REALLY tough fiber!

For me, the ultimate test of the Tech Pants came a couple of summers ago when I was doing a scientific research project with a researcher from the US Forest Service. Jenny Juzwick has been researching oak wilt for a long time. That summer I was hired to innoculate some red oaks with oak wilt in order to have a controlled study of the effects of a "claimed" cure. The first day of climbing was hot and humid by Minneapolis standards. Ninety plus degrees and ninety plus humidity with no air movement. While I was driving home, with the AC cranked up, I realized that I was feeling rather crummy. Even though I had eaten well and drank lots of fluids. 

The next day I did the same climbing and the weather conditions were the same. Ate the same breakfast and lunch with lots of water. By now you're wondering what any of this has to do with AW Tech Pants. On the first day I had TPs, the second, plain old, broken in blue jeans. When I was driving home the second day I felt rotten. Not crummy, really crappy. As I analyzed the day to try to figure out what was different the only variable was my pants. The TPs were in the was because of the walk through poison ivy. My conclusion is that the TP fabric allowed my body to cool just a bit better during the day. Since cotton isn't as effective as synthetics in moving water it didn't radiate my bodies heat like the Tech Pants. 

I get such a boot out of the talk about cost of pants and such. No one ever has said that doing performance mods on chainsaws wasn't a great value. When anyone starts to wonder if any of the second-string chainsaws are worth considering, even for an occaisonal user, they get shot down. For a long time I've considered my clothing as valuable to my health and production as any of, what are normally thought of as tools. 

Besides, I was wearing my new, black AW Tech Pants and my sweetie said that I looked sharp in them. She's never commented on how I look in work jeans. I can't put a value on that comment 

Tom


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## Nickrosis (Aug 23, 2004)

Way to go. You could have just skipped to the last line!


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## OutOnaLimb (Aug 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel _
> *I had a pair of the arborwear pants. OK, but not worth the $40-$50 I paid. I get Dickies/ Carharts for $20 and they wear longer than the Arborwear pants. And the Dickies workpants have the small loop on the left leg (designed for hanging a hammer or paintbrush?) that works great for clipping an extra 'biner or two. *



You know what kinda of pants I wear Rocky. Good ole Dickies. 16 bucks at Wally World. And they wear good for about 6 months. After that you just get a few more pairs. 

Kenn


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## xander9727 (Aug 24, 2004)

Just got back from the FISTA training for Ohio. Sherrill was there and did a good gear demo. The FISTA guys were real informative on the OSHA and ANSI standards. They covered how they apply to tree care and what are the most often overlooked violations. The instructors were wearing summer weight chainsaw resistant pants. This is the first time I've ever seen a pair of the summer weight. They look like they would work well and are comfortable. I'm going to try a couple of pairs out. I'll still wear shorts underneath so I can get them off at the end of the day.


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## ms200 (Aug 25, 2004)

*tech pants*

Are these Tech pants shiny nylon?


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## ms200 (Aug 25, 2004)

*Stretch Air*

Hey Stephen I'm on the stretch airs too, best so far, and your right the girls love them, maybe we could market them in the states, but at $230.00 a pair,judging by the last few replies i doubt if americans would pay the price.


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## ms200 (Aug 25, 2004)

Just in case someone picks that last statement up wrongly, I didnt infer americans couldnt afford them, as I already know you guys can.


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 25, 2004)

Ha! Not me.


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## Frans (Aug 25, 2004)

*Stretch Air (?)*

And do you have contact info. for these pants/coats?
Is this an English company?
Frans


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## Nickrosis (Aug 25, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ms200 _
> *Just in case someone picks that last statement up wrongly, I didnt infer americans couldnt afford them, as I already know you guys can. *


Hav ya seen the value of the dollar against the euro lately?  We're not doing as well as we'd like. The biggest issue with buying European safety products is that many new products haven't passed ANSI standards. Not that they wouldn't, but that they haven't. 

And for a company to hand them out to crews without the stamp of approval can be hairy if something goes wrong. For a climber to do that on their own, though, is a different story.


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## JJackson (Aug 25, 2004)

None of the companies that do line clearance work around here wear chaps or protective pant when climbing. I would think htat saw pants would be the best choice as chaps would offer many more chances of hanging up on something while in a tree. I had one logger tell me a story of a guy that ended up hanging up side down from the butt of the tree he just fell from his chaps...they said they were laughing so hared that nobody could help him for a while.


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## xander9727 (Aug 25, 2004)

JJ,

I've never heard of anyone hanging upside down from their chaps. Did he have two tie in points?

I did however hear about the guy that wasn't wearing chaps in the tree and cut himself with the chainsaw.


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 25, 2004)

I would kill the person that made me wear chaps.

:angel:


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## xander9727 (Aug 25, 2004)

Sooooooo Butch,
Who do you kill if OSHA or Louisana requires it?

Guess it would be time to hang up the old spurs.

Start planning now, it's not as far away as we think.


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## glens (Aug 25, 2004)

PPE is definitely a good idea, in whatever endeavor we undertake.&nbsp; There's something about having its use legislated that makes it less desirable, though.&nbsp; Next thing is we'll have to pay some sort of fee or tax to pay the salary of whomever it is that will watch over and fine us when we transgress even the littlest bit.&nbsp; No wonder personal responsibility/accountability is fading from the scene...

Glen


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## Frans (Aug 25, 2004)

Soooo, what are these "stretch Air" pants/coats anyway?
Frans


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 25, 2004)

> _Originally posted by xander9727 _
> *
> 
> Start planning now, it's not as far away as we think. *



It's plenty far away, at least down here.


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## OutOnaLimb (Aug 25, 2004)

I guess I can look at this argument with they eye of an ex soldier. To wear body armor, or to not wear body armor. Personally, I was a sniper and the thought of me wearing a Kevlar helmet and RBA was ridiculous. I had enough sh!t that I had to carry. On the same token, my squad leader Casey Joyce was killed in Somalia when he took the ceramic plate out of his RBA (Ranger Body Armor) on White Sunday. For those of you who are confused check out the movie Black Hawk Down. On the same token every thing is mission dependant. Had we been on a long range patrol instead of a quick MOUT raid, body armor would not have been worn at all. Personally, I dont wear chaps or protective pants. and I accept the fact that if I slip and cut myself then I have no one else to blame but myself. I wear tall top Baileys climbing boots that come to my knees so at least the lower half of my leg is protected, however 75% of the cuts I make are at waist to chest level. Am I to wear a kevlar neck gator and flack vest? We as arborists fully know the hazzards of our profession. Sh!t is gonna happen. If you cant accept that aspect of our job, then get a job working behind a desk.

Kenn:Monkey:


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## Nickrosis (Aug 25, 2004)

But let's not confuse the fact that wearing saw-resistant pants on the ground is *required.* Wearing them in the tree is *optional.*


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## OutOnaLimb (Aug 26, 2004)

Required by who? OSHA, or ANSI? As a sole proprioter, or sub contracter the workmans comp laws do not relate to me. If I had employees, then yes, the would be decked out in full armor, just like the old knights in King Aurthors court.

Kenn


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## glens (Aug 26, 2004)

In that respect this thread is highly parallel now to the "climbing for hire" thread.&nbsp; "Employer"ness carries a whole slew of baggage.

Glen


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## OutOnaLimb (Aug 26, 2004)

Thats why I keep it simple stupid. (KISS) I have had employees, its to much of a heart ache

Kenn


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## Nickrosis (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OutOnaLimb _
> *Required by who? OSHA, or ANSI? As a sole proprioter, or sub contracter the workmans comp laws do not relate to me. If I had employees, then yes, the would be decked out in full armor, just like the old knights in King Aurthors court.
> 
> Kenn *


Required by ANSI, hence OSHA.

Checking my copy of the Z133.1-2000.....Look at 4.2.8: Chain saw-resistant leg protection shall be worn while operating a chain saw during ground operations.


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 26, 2004)

Don't make me hafta kill ya, Nick!


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## ms200 (Aug 26, 2004)

*Stretch Airs*

Hey Frans, Check out www.proclimber.co.uk give you an idea of cost and style........oh and by the way I dont wear the girlie pink ones but i know a girl who does and what an ass!!!!


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## Oxman (Aug 26, 2004)

Here's a pic of the ArborWear Tech pants. They come in Forest Green or Black.


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## jkrueger (Aug 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Oxman _
> *Here's a pic of the ArborWear Tech pants. They come in Forest Green or Black.
> 
> 
> ...



Nice looking pocket lay out, looking at pic anyway. I'd get some when I've got the cash for new out fit.

Thanks,
Jack


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## glens (Aug 26, 2004)

I don't know.&nbsp; I'm thinking I'd have to be doing some leg strap unbuckling to get at those side pockets.


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## Tom Dunlap (Aug 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by glens _
> *I don't know.&nbsp; I'm thinking I'd have to be doing some leg strap unbuckling to get at those side pockets. *



Glens,

Do you think that Paul and Bill or any of the field testers would have come up with a design that would require leg straps to be undone?

Who makes these pants? Oh, yeah, ARBOR...as in TREE...WEAR as in put them on and go to work. Not Car...like automobile...hartt...like hard and stiff as tin chimneys. What does Dickie know about making tree climbing pants?

In case you can't see the smile on my face, this post is steeped in smart-mouth 

Joking aside, you don't have to unclip leg straps to get to the pockets. In fact, with my Butterfly II I can get into the upper pockets without too much struggle.

Tom


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## glens (Aug 27, 2004)

Thanks for the info, Tom.

Glen


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## a_lopa (Aug 27, 2004)

are the arbor wear pants cut proof?if they wernt i wouldnt bother myself........heres some new zealand made stihl branded pants summer weight at $180 per pair there cheap insurance,main arterys run down your legs and do a dog leg at your calf muscle hit that and lose a litre of blood and its all but over,ive been witness to it.anyway each to there own if your happy in your levis fair enough.


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## Stumper (Aug 27, 2004)

I like the cut of the Tech pants. I also like the concept of Arborwear as a company. They aren't getting my business for two reasons. 
1. Price. I do believe in paying for quality but when I can purchase 5-8 GOOD items for the price of 1 "great" item, good usually wins.
2. Material. The Tech Pants are nylon.-That is good for wear, wicking and coolness ( I guess-the only nylon pants I ever tried were sticky in the heat). Have you ever met anyone who went through a fire in synthetic clothing? They won't even consider anything other than cotton, wool or silk. I don't expect to get set on fire but while I'm working with gasoline powered equipment that throws sparks I think I'll play it safer.:angel:


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## Tom Dunlap (Aug 27, 2004)

After the Falklands war the British Navy looked at the use of synthetics. That's because there were fires on board the ships. 

But...discounting the use of synthetics because of the possible fire risk is a little on the fringe I think. I've spent many days and nights standing around fires in the middle of winter on the Canada-MN border in nothing but plastic clothing. There are only a few holes in any of my gear. And those holes are only in the outer layers. Does ANYONE know of a fire related to a chainsaw?

I'll run the risk of melted clothing for better performance. I offset the cost of the clothes by going down a notch in beer quality for a while. 

When considering risk, remember that over 46,000 people die every year on US roads. And, as a society, we don't seem that concerned. 

Tom


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## Stumper (Aug 27, 2004)

Tom, Your point is well taken.- The price and material work together to discourage me. If the Tech pants were $25 I'd give nylon a try. If the material were non flammable I might spring $35 to try them. $80 bucks AND Synthetic-no thanks.


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## a_lopa (Aug 27, 2004)

tom,i have seem a fire created by a chainsaw but i must admit its very rare,the muffler on a shin 757 sticks out a little while blocking up some stringy bark you see a imprint of muffler,anyway job was done and off i went,i came back down the road and there was a small grass fire lucky for me i got it out easily with a rake-hoe.


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## a_lopa (Aug 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *Tom makes a good point, you won't run an old dull Homelite, but you'll wear $16 Dickies.
> What's up with that?
> Live large, treat yourself, lifes too short. *



agreed mike,but the homelite is going to slow you down just a little


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## a_lopa (Aug 27, 2004)

aire conditionin


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## Nathan Wreyford (Aug 27, 2004)

Those pants look snazzy but I am inclined to say no. I use a chainsaw in the tree so just like my jacket, I like protection. For twice the price, you can get Strech Airs. Tree climbing pants WITH protection.

When working a tree over with a Zubat, I use other pants from jeans to really nice climbing pants from Mammut.

.02


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## Stumper (Aug 27, 2004)

Nathan, Funny thing-I've never cut myself with a chainsaw. I've nailed myself many times with the handsaw.


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## Nathan Wreyford (Aug 27, 2004)

Amen to that. I never have either. Sharing a zubat is like sharing a needle.


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## Climber2 (Aug 27, 2004)

We're not allowed synthetics in line clearance. I bought 2 pair though.

Mike


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## SteveBullman (Aug 28, 2004)

i dont think i actually know anyone who hasn't cut themselves with a pruning saw, they're more dangerous than a chainsaw if you ask me


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## xander9727 (Aug 28, 2004)

My silky got a taste of me on Thursday. I'll post a pic if your interested. Cuts deeper more quickly than a fanno but the cuts seem to heal well.


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## SteveBullman (Aug 28, 2004)

hehe go for it


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## Nickrosis (Aug 28, 2004)

> _Originally posted by xander9727 _
> *My silky got a taste of me on Thursday. I'll post a pic if your interested. Cuts deeper more quickly than a fanno but the cuts seem to heal well. *


Tom knows how I feel, but every time I see the word "heal" I always think of the heal/seal topic with trees. People heal, trees seal.... Good luck healing.


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## xander9727 (Aug 28, 2004)

I was refering to flesh when I said the silky cut deeper and faster than the fanno. I still would get small cuts through my gloves with the fanno but the gloves would protect me for the most part. With the silky I get cut and ruin the gloves. 

I don't want to imply that I'm getting cut with my hand saw every week, I'm not. I'd like to never get cut but I seem to every other month or so. I've never gone to the hospital for a hand saw cut but I still could do without them. Guess I need to be more careful.


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## OutOnaLimb (Aug 28, 2004)

I have shed more than my fair share of blood to my Zubat when I fist got it. After gettin sliced a few times I gained mucho respect for that little piece of equipment.

Kenn:Monkey:


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## xander9727 (Aug 28, 2004)

It's healing well.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 25, 2004)

Yah, but they sure command a hefty purchase price. 

Xander, are those keloids I'm seeing? It could be the pic. If so, ya shoulda got some stitches... or didja?


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## Nickrosis (Oct 25, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *I wore them out to dinner with my mom, as dress pants, after working in them two weeks or so.*


That sums it all up right there! I'm getting a pair.


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## Stumper (Oct 25, 2004)

So you can go to dinner with your Mom?


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## SilverBlue (Oct 25, 2004)

I think he's hinting at Mike's Mom


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## xander9727 (Oct 25, 2004)

MB,
Yeah I should have gotten stitches but I just don't have 6 hours to spend in the ER to get 5 minutes worth of stitches. My wife usually stitches me but I did this in the morning and didn't get home for 11 hours so it was too late.

I need to retract everything bad I ever said about Arborwear products. I purchased two pairs of seconds from Arborwear at the Paul Bunyan Show in Nelsonville, Ohio. I love them. They were only $20 if you purchased two or more pairs. I just called them to see if I could get anymore of the seconds (I still don't want to spend $50 on something I can destroy in a day). They have plenty in my size so I bought 9 pairs and 4 of their belts for my employees. I like the belts because they can be used as a tourniquet in an emergency and they don't interfere with my saddle. The reason the pants I bought were seconds is the seam on the side of the pant had a little fold in one part of it. I had to look for several minutes to find it. I have worn one of the pairs for 5 washings and they still look like new. They really do make an outstanding product. If you buy in bulk you can get a discount on the first quality pants. I don't have the details but they are giving them to me at TCI when I pick up my pants (so I don't pay shipping).


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 25, 2004)

She coulda still stitched it, 11 hrs ain't too late. Just more painfull.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 25, 2004)

It has healed, incorrectly. That's why there are keloids. A few stitches woulda closed it up, right and proper.

People pay good money to have those thangs installed.

http://bodymod.org/


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## tophopper (Oct 29, 2004)

comparing AW pants to dickies or Walmart pants is like comparing a Stihl or husky to the Wild thing from the home depot.
If you havent actually worn them, dont knock them. They are THE most comfortable pants ive ever worn. I dont particularly care for the originals because they get a bit warm on hot days. Ive got several of the blue jeans and like them so much I wear them on my off days. Yes, the tech pants price is up there but i'll try them soon im sure. 
Im sure many of you wear 80 dollar or more boots, 50-75 dollar helmets, and 100 dollar jackets. Living in the north and working "real" winters my long underwear alone runs near 50 bucks for tops and bottoms. Throw in some good synthetic socks at 8-10 bucks a pair. 

Its all about comfort, you could climb with a bowline on a bight for the cost of the rope to make it,so why wear a 2-300 saddle?

I think its funny how people will drop ridiculious amounts of money on a new set of golf clubs, hunting guns, or fishing gear which will only get used a mere fraction of the time, but will "cheap out" on good working equipment and gear which will get used near everyday.


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## Nathan Wreyford (Oct 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *I mean...
> How much are your legs worth?
> 
> I kinda like having mine. *



Makes a good argument for pants that actually have chainsaw protection


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## tophopper (Oct 29, 2004)

I cannot say for sure, but Id be willing to bet the tech pants will last longer than any pair of regular jeans, for that matter thed probably outlast many pairs.
The fabric is very tough, I havent worn them but I have seen them.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *For that matter... what do you pay for jeans? They can get wrecked in a day. *



Dang they must sell shoddy jeans up north! My wranglers last me at least a year, even longer.


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## BigJohn (Oct 29, 2004)

I like wrangers too but MY boss doesn't allow the "power blues" at work. We are a uniformed company. We all must look alike and I do my best


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## geofore (Oct 29, 2004)

*X9727*

"People will believe what you say and like it or not you'll share some responsibility for their action." Xander, you sound like a liberal that is in no way going to be the one who takes responsibility for your own actions. It's someone elses fault first? If they are unable to think for themselves it's your fault they can't? I don't buy that idea. You need the pants if you're going to blame the other guy, not for the protection but so you won't have to take responsibilty for your own mishaps. 

To the question of, "hav ya seen the value of the dollar against the euro lately?" 1.27/1 the past week, maybe I spend too much time traveling. A liter of gas was 1.09 euro most of it being tax.


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## tophopper (Oct 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BigJohn _
> *I like wrangers too but MY boss doesn't allow the "power blues" at work. We are a uniformed company. We all must look alike and I do my best *



BJ- since you are uniformed, does your boss supply you with your duds?, or do you foot the bill?


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## BigJohn (Oct 29, 2004)

The uniforms are supplied. We pay like 3 bucks a week for cleaning. It sucks though since I am tall and not fat. The long sleeved shirts do not fit. They said at the uniform co they could fit me but as knew they couldn't. Its the curse of being built like a monkey.


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## tophopper (Oct 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BigJohn _
> * Its the curse of being built like a monkey. *



 

knuckle dragger, eh?


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## BigJohn (Oct 29, 2004)

Its not cintas I can see the truck but can't picture the name. I'll have to check on that. I know they don'e carry tall sizes


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## NeTree (Oct 29, 2004)

Sucks don't it? I'm guessing you and I have the same problem... Just 'cuz I have a 36" inseam doesn't mean I have the legs of Jean-Claude Van-Damme. (sp?) Same crap with the length of shirts.


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## xander9727 (Oct 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nathan Wreyford _
> *Makes a good argument for pants that actually have chainsaw protection *



Is this TreeTX condoning the use of chainsaw pants........you mean like the chaps we discussed so many months ago........funny, I can't find those post anymore.


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## a_lopa (Oct 31, 2004)

i dont get how you guys think chainsaw pants/cutproofs are a big deal,i pay $180 for mine sure there warm big deal you get years out of them.i dont go to work with out them,the added protection inserts save alot of pain


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## Nickrosis (Oct 31, 2004)

The ArborWear booth was out of my size, so they're mailing them to me. Can't wait to wear 'em!


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## a_lopa (Nov 1, 2004)

cut proofs pants are a statment you can climb over here,if your on a chipper you get oil drenched chaps,its a status thing amongst small crews, cos rules are they have to supply 2 pairs due to hygeine issues,nick if you have trouble getting any to fit i can get you some stihl branded ones


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## Nathan Wreyford (Nov 1, 2004)

*Busted!!*



> _Originally posted by xander9727 _
> *Is this TreeTX condoning the use of chainsaw pants........you mean like the chaps we discussed so many months ago........funny, I can't find those post anymore. *



It still hurts me to argue for them. I think they are really good protection for the day when it doesn't happen to the "other guy".

I would still have problems using them on a hot day or pruning with my Zubat.


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## Nickrosis (Nov 1, 2004)

I'd be interested in the SIP pants when they're approved over here.


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## Nathan Wreyford (Nov 1, 2004)

SIP trousers are cool but bar none the best are StretchAir.

http://www.freeworker.de/store/pd731610491.htm?defaultVariants=search0_EQ_M_AND_{EOL}&categoryId=1


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## xander9727 (Nov 1, 2004)

Nate,
Are you still required to wear them if your pruning with a hand saw?


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## Nathan Wreyford (Nov 2, 2004)

*Gott sei dank, nein!*

Thanks God, no!

Silly thing is that some people I have subbed for in the past requested that I wear them even when using a handsaw because the make you look more like a tree climber. 

To some people it is all about looking the part 

http://www.billionairesforbushorkerry.com/platformandagenda/default.htm


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## a_lopa (Nov 2, 2004)

whats the issue with not wearing cut proofs


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## Nickrosis (Nov 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by aussie_lopa _
> *whats the issue with not wearing cut proofs  *


Here we go again.  Why wear saw resistant pants when you're just using a hand saw? It's not necessary. Wear them when using a chain saw.


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## Nathan Wreyford (Nov 2, 2004)

Just for argument, say you are pruning with a zubat and have one large stub to cut off on your way down the tree. Do you go down, change pants, or just call up for the saw and make "just one cut"?

Ok, you call up for the saw - duh!

Now, say there are 4 cuts like that in a tree......or 14....it gets to be a slippery slope.

Off to work!!


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## a_lopa (Nov 2, 2004)

im not going to argue,but dont talk high quality tree work and say ill put cut proofs on when it suits me,saftey starts when you walk out the door IMO


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## Nickrosis (Nov 2, 2004)

I think if you walk out the door and use a handsaw all day, you shouldn't feel badly that you didn't wear chainsaw resistant pants. It shouldn't even cross your mind or remotely be viewed as irresponsible, as far as I'm concerned.

If you're using a chainsaw, the issues change. Aussie, you and I differ on this, but I believe following the ANSI standard is an acceptable baseline standard. If you want to go beyond that, I would in no way stop you...I'd encourage you. But I would never tell someone who is doing a good job pruning in a tree that they're a hack since they don't have saw pants on. UNLESS, the standard changed and the pants were required for chainsaw work in trees.

In Australia, I say follow the rules, by all means. Wear the pants and comply. It's better for you. But I'm not going to get on this site and pontificate about how everyone is a hack if they don't wear chaps at all times.


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## a_lopa (Nov 2, 2004)

. But I'm not going to get on this site and pontificate about how everyone is a hack if they don't wear chaps at all times. [/B][/QUOTE


each to there own,put it this way do you know how much blood loss till your dead or is this to much for AS


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## a_lopa (Nov 2, 2004)

of course there so heavy


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## Nickrosis (Nov 2, 2004)

You keep dodging the question, though. Do you think it's necessary to wear chaps when you're not using a chainsaw?

I don't mean it as a trick question or anything. If you're going out to prune small trees and don't bring a chainsaw along, do you still compelled to wear chaps?


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## a_lopa (Nov 2, 2004)

its up to the individual,i bit of padding on front legs is good for climbing,chipping etc:angel: dodge


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## Nathan Wreyford (Nov 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> *You keep dodging the question, though. Do you think it's necessary to wear chaps when you're not using a chainsaw?
> 
> I don't mean it as a trick question or anything. If you're going out to prune small trees and don't bring a chainsaw along, do you still compelled to wear chaps? *



Answer........No, of course not. I wore the chainsaw pants today but for the rest of the week I am knocking fine deadwood out of trees in a graveyard. Up and down lots of big trees, running through them with nuttin' but a zübat for cuttin'. I will wear more comfy pants.


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## Nickrosis (Nov 2, 2004)

Sure, that makes sense. I was bugging Aussie cuz we've been round-and-round on the subject.


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## Nathan Wreyford (Nov 2, 2004)

He sounds like my coworker. If he is doing tree work, he puts on one set of tree clothes.

Personally, I tend to change a lot on the jobsite. As things start getting icey and cold, I will probably wear my ballistics more just because they are warmer.


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## Nickrosis (Nov 12, 2004)

Week and a half, and I'm still smiling. And logging compliments from girls as well.  

I'm thinking I should start another contest on AS with tech pants as the prize. My paycheck tomorrow is 100% disposable.  I'll be thinking all day about what a good contest would be.


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## TimberMcPherson (Nov 12, 2004)

I agree with lopa and xanda, chainsaw pants are a small hassle for alot of protection. But they arent just protection from chainsaws, they hold back thorns, dish towel flicks, road rash when you fall off you bike, shin hits and dog bites.

They are tough, wear well and look much more proffessional than other pants. Here chainsaw protective pants have to be worn whenever your using a saw, even in the tree. 
You can spot arborists a mile off as we all wear the same pants, its great for networking with each other and clients start to pick up on it as well. (I have been stopped several times to ask about tree stuff in the supermarket and got a few jobs out of it.)

Eventually they will be as standard in our industry as harnesses and ear protection.


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## a_lopa (Nov 12, 2004)

yeah i dont get it, nick makes fun of wearing them, nathan says he needs a change of clothes  guy cleans up hurricanes with a zubat what the hells happening in the U.S of A ohh and germany:angel:


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## xander9727 (Nov 12, 2004)

Carly aka nickrosis,
Does arborwear sponsor you because you're an olympian? Are you really going to pursue a career in trees? Do you like it better when girls notice you?


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## Big A (Nov 12, 2004)

Well, get this. I was trimming hedges for local council, with hedgetrimmer not a chainsaw in sight for the local council. The safety officer came out on site and told me I should be wearing chainsaw protection, including chainsaw gloves. I told him that I hadn't got a saw on site. He said it doesn't matter I should have the protection anyway as Im in the profession, and should set an example??? As we didnt want to lose the contract, I conceded the point and wore the gear. H&S gone berserk! Good old England!!


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## Nickrosis (Nov 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Big A _
> *Well, get this. I was trimming hedges for local council, with hedgetrimmer not a chainsaw in sight for the local council. The safety officer came out on site and told me I should be wearing chainsaw protection, including chainsaw gloves. I told him that I hadn't got a saw on site. He said it doesn't matter I should have the protection anyway as Im in the profession, and should set an example??? As we didnt want to lose the contract, I conceded the point and wore the gear. H&S gone berserk! Good old England!! *


See that Aussie? See that?


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## a_lopa (Nov 12, 2004)

hey bro ive worked under ''texas utilitys'' over here, there scared chitless of getting sued,they were the ones that taught me how to pass the buck


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## geofore (Nov 13, 2004)

*looking good?*

It's like saying," We don't care about how well you do the job, " We want you to look good while you do whatever it is you do." So put the on the PPE and make the bureaucrats feel like they are usefull? Doesn't work for me. I would have to charge more for the job if it requires making a fashion statement to please bureaucrats.


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## a_lopa (Nov 13, 2004)

no its more like we have supplied you and trained you,if you stuff up its your fault


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## Frans (Nov 13, 2004)

Getting off topic here folks?
Frans


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## Nickrosis (Nov 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Frans _
> *Getting off topic here folks?
> Frans *


Nope. As soon as topics are brought up, they're discussed. I'd say we're on the third or fourth topic right now.


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## xander9727 (Nov 14, 2004)

Can you believe Ohio State lost to Purdue?


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## Nickrosis (Nov 14, 2004)

Thank you for that.

Has anyone had shrinkage problems?


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## xander9727 (Nov 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> *Has anyone had shrinkage problems? *



Nick, 
I'm really afraid to ask you to be more specific........but, what are you talking about exactly?


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## Nickrosis (Nov 14, 2004)

Shrinkage? I meant that the tech pants seem to shrink in the dryer. I've stuck with turning off the heat on the dryer, but does anyone else have a solution? Am I the only one experiencing shrinkage?


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## Nickrosis (Nov 14, 2004)

The pounds are possible, but not likely 2 inches just while the drier is running!


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## Tom Dunlap (Nov 14, 2004)

My tech pants come out of the washer almost dry. They get hung to finish drying. There have been a couple of times that they've gone in the dryer and they haven't shrunk.

Many of my other pants have shrunk when they made the move from Minneapolis at 900' elevation to the mile high elevation of Denver. I hate to think about what might happen if I wear the TP up to Pike's Peak or any of the other 14ers. I can't figure out that phenomenon. Has anyone else experienced elevation shrinkage?

Tom


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## Nickrosis (Nov 14, 2004)

Not I. 

What were you saying? Wearing TP up a mountain? I keep TP in a zip-lock bag so it's dry when I need it. Wearing seems you'd be exposing it to the elements but it would be more handily accessed.


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