# The typical tree guy



## OutOnaLimb (Mar 27, 2004)

Dont feel bad Rocky, I see these same type of clowns every day. Maybe that its just a simple matter of "Ignorance is Bliss" I started out about 4 years ago with a pick up and a Home Depot Poulan saw and just got my foot in the door of the tree care industry. Had I been complacent like many of the people that I see tomahawking trees every day I would have never have gained the somewhat limited area of expertise that I have now. Maybe its just my personality, but I thirst for knowledge in all things and I think its just appauling when I meet them on the street. I have even gone so far as to be called a know it all "College Boy" by some hack who has taught himself to do trees 20 years ago and is still doing things the way he figured out how to do it over two decades ago. It can be frustrating at times, but Ya just deal with it, learn what ya can from others, (good or bad) and drive on with your own show.

Kenn

:Monkey:


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## xtremetrees (Mar 27, 2004)

Who am I to judge a man trying to make a living I feel pround to be associated with anyone man or woman that runs a chainsaw for a living. No matter how incompetent. Chainsaws are inheriently dangerous and to make a living, feed your family with it is something I look up to in a person. I try to be aware of my own self rightous indignation when it comes to "hacks" I am a hack. I have left more stubbs or liontailed a tree when i knew it was bad. Customer paid me to do just that.
The self righoutous indignation its a comfortable feeling of superiority others easily detect an will never listen to.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 27, 2004)

I let my actions do all the talking for me! Whenever I'm selling myself to a new client, I tell them if they don't like how I perform on the first day, they don't have to pay. I haven't had a taker yet.

I love what I do for a living... I can't believe I get paid so well to do such a simple thing... climb a tree.


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## xander9727 (Mar 27, 2004)

MB,
If it's so simple, why is it so hard to teach people? I've learned through my life that if you don't have a natural inclination for something it is very difficult. Conversely if you are inclined in an area it's baffeling as to why people can't grasp the concept. The vast majority of society can't climb a 24' extention ladder much less a 100' tree. If they can't learn knots they'll never be a successful climber (there goes another huge group of people). They must be able to start, safely operate and quite often maintain a chainsaw while suspended high above the earth. I'm sure you get the point, many of us on this site see our job as tedious but simple. The majority of the rest of the hapless souls that only wish they had our dexterity, perseverance, courage, strength, stamina, charisma and our course natural good looks cannot fathom doing what we so easily do. I'm convinced that in the civilian community, we are at the top of the food chain. Yes, I'm a legend in my own mind. So far my 2 and 4 year olds are convinced........we'll see how long it lasts.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 27, 2004)

It must be a natural inclination on my part, I guess. I spent the first 20 years of my life climbing trees for fun... and free.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 27, 2004)

If I casually speak to proper tree care vs denegrating their current practices, I find myself more able to turn them to my line of thought.

One of my favorite moments is when they try to explain to me something I told them a year ago.

Plant a seed and watch it grow.

Arogance will got you nowhere, except maybe to the door. I've known some good worlers whove tried this line, but failed because people don't want their attitudes back.


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## xander9727 (Mar 27, 2004)

I agree JPS, people have to be open to change. Forcing never seems to work.

Thanks for giving Charly my #, Talked to him Thursday morning. He seems to be a stand up guy.


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## xander9727 (Mar 27, 2004)

I think he was commenting on my previous post Brian.

Remember, 

Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't against you!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by xander9727 _
> *I think he was commenting on my previous post Brian.
> 
> *



That was my intent.

Even if I was, you should be the last one to complain about that sort of thing 

Why do the biggest mouths have the thinnest skins 

Oh whell, such is life.


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## SilverBlue (Mar 27, 2004)

My my how time flies. It still seems like yesterday, a younger Brian equipped with minimal gear still using the ol fashioned hitches was the student learning from the pros here. Did others go postal on this fella who was once ignorant of the advanced methods of climbing? 
Come to think about it would you still have progressed the same today if not for the collective input of many pros here or would you still be the typical tree guy working the ol taughtline hitch?


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 27, 2004)

I still luvs me a nice tauntline, meself!


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## Dadatwins (Mar 27, 2004)

Hey, why did this thread go from ignorant hack & slash wanna -be-treeman to ripping the the old taut-line guys again? Unfortunalty there are always going to be a bunch of wanna-be tree-guys out there and many should be kind of thankful for that. If everyone was a pro in this biz there goes goes the demand for someone that really knows their stuff. I had a guy in a landscape truck stop me one day to ask about his new 440 that would not cut. Said he just had the chain sharpened and it still would not work. Worked fine after I turned the chain the right way. Got a couple of job referals from that guy after that.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel _
> *Seems like the only one with a big mouth lately is you, John. Again, please keep your personal attacks off the forum. *



Once again...I did not and have not attacked you. 

Geez


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 27, 2004)

Hey John Paul... you know how it is when your tall and bowed-up... eh?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Mar 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel _
> *Seems like the only one with a big mouth lately is you, John. Again, please keep your personal attacks off the forum. *



It's funny that you acuse JP of attacking you, when this whole thread is about me.
I buy a new chain each time I dull my saw, 'cus it's easier than filing. The only thing you said wrong was I had a Stihl 039, when my biggest saw is an 029, with an 18 inch blade.
The big problem is if my pick-up truck is full of brush, I can't set my saw on the gate to sharpen it, not that it matters because it cuts much worse than when it's dull after I sharpen it.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> * and bowed-up*



I missed that one, I was not too tall for it to go over my head.


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## Stumper (Mar 27, 2004)

Awww Come on guys-we aren't supposed to be enemies. I know what Brian means-"Tree trimmer" is often the "career" of people with limited skills who happen to be willing to work."Got me a pick-up and a chainsaw and I ken make a hunnert dollas a day, easy." On the other hand being a Professional Arborist does get respect -when you present yourself and your pofession as something deserving of respect. John is absolutely correct-not every "Harry the hacker"is an idiot or unteachable. Giving respect and talking about our shared profession as a profession can inspire some to become better.:angel:


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## legendrider (Mar 27, 2004)

*Regarding Taught line Hitch*

If this is such a "dinosaur" hitch why do Arborist Schools still teach them to new climbers as a good working hitch? It was the first hitch I learned and I went to school this past Janurary. Now I am confuzed.


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## Dadatwins (Mar 27, 2004)

*Re: Regarding Taught line Hitch*



> _Originally posted by legendrider _
> *If this is such a "dinosaur" hitch why do Arborist Schools still teach them to new climbers as a good working hitch? It was the first hitch I learned and I went to school this past Janurary*



What school was this? Did they teach about possible rollout of the hitch? How did they tie it? I still use it but many here on this site will tear the dinosaur knot to shreads.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 27, 2004)

*Re: Re: Regarding Taught line Hitch*



> _Originally posted by Dadatwins _
> * I still use it but many here on this site will tear the dinosaur knot to shreads. *





Gimme yur best shot...


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## xander9727 (Mar 27, 2004)

JPS,
You've hurt my feeling! 

I think you owe everyone in the world an apology and you should ban yourself from typing with your dominant hand for two weeks.


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## xander9727 (Mar 27, 2004)

MB,
I won't address your tautline "issues". After all you are an old dog.



Let's see how long it takes him to respond to this.

Go


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 27, 2004)




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## xander9727 (Mar 27, 2004)

Clerks and Happy Gilmore offer an interesting contrast. Bob is holding his right a little to tight. I can take him.


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 27, 2004)

Heys, he's way-old...


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## coydog (Mar 27, 2004)

there is nothing wrong with the tautline,and it should still be taught as basic technique. It is easy to tie and untie while working and is a good hitch to be comfortable with if working without a splittail. It has limitations which must be respected, such as its tendency to creep. 
IMO the blake's is a more reliable hitch, not as easy to tie and untie repeatedly( could be debated) , but an excellent all around hitch to use with the split tail system, which allows one to move more freely in the tree.
Next is a blake's with a slacktender
Then french prussik
lockjack next(if your a gearhead that's got the money) 
I think being trained to climb with the most basic set-up,i.e. no splittail and a tautline, teaches invaluable skills, such as good routing technique in a tree.
If you have to flip-in and untie/retie everything everytime you reset your line or have to bypass a branch, then your routing skills will improve. 
That being said i don't personally know many production climbers that still use a tautline but I think it's a great idea for training. I was taught with a blake's split tail system, and i think there where some concepts that i may have "gotten" sooner if i were trained without a splittail, even if just for a short while.


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## Guy Meilleur (Mar 28, 2004)

*Tautline never creeps, Rust never sleeps*

Thou shalt not shred my tautline, no matter how hard you try. YOu can taunt it all you want, though that'd just be arrogant denigration
Actually, since I know turn the top 2 loops to the left--remarkable!--is it still a tautline hitch? Whatever, it's never slipped on me. What's wrong with KISS now and then? 

Way to go Rocky, holding back from chewing out the chainbuying guy in the store, or sticking his saw where the sun don't shine.

Keep up the self-restraint! :angel:

Much better instead to vent here, we know what you're saying even if some of us would rather hear it said in other words.


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## Ax-man (Mar 28, 2004)

Guy,

Have you had your private lessons with Master Tom D. on proggresive tree climbing.

If any body can wretch that tautline out of your hand it would be him. 

Remember, you promised to change after that tree conference in Minn. I'm just holding you to that promise.    

Larry


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## geofore (Mar 28, 2004)

*new chain*

If he buys a new chain, no crime in that but he cheats himself out of learning to sharpen a chain. The stretch he deals with tells me it is time for a new sprocket or to check the one on the saw. Not everyone is into maintainance of their equipment. While the new chain is a nibble in the wallet, the guy is probably safer with it than without it. It indicates he is not into saving a buck or two as he could leave the old chain to be sharpened while he wears out the new one. I'd save the old one just for trees with nails and wire or backup after it is resharpened. If he only buys one at a time how much cutting can he be doing in a day? He's not buying in bulk so he's not getting a discount and he doesn't have a backup if he hits a nail or something. It would be tough to stay on the job let alone in buisness if you only carry one chain and run to the store to replace it every time it gets dull. 
A real saw isn't going to make a big difference if he doesn't learn to touch up his chains or carry a lot of new ones. If he is into buying a new chain every time the best you could do for him is tell him they are cheaper by the dozen. Learning to tickle the chain would save wear and tear on his wallet.


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## Guy Meilleur (Mar 28, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Ax-man _
> *Have you had your private lessons with Master Tom D. on proggresive tree climbing. Remember, you promised to change . I'm just holding you to that promise. *


Um, yes I did climb SRT with TD, it's a valuable tool which will be used on some trees. Yes I did use a new ascender, the double-stirrup kind, ditto.
The tree we were in was a 90+' elm. Pulling the throw bag thru broke 2 ea. 1" branches; hate to see that in an elm and being in th etiptop, hard to prune clean.

I never promised to make a wholesale transformation into "progressive". For all the utility of bigshot etc on some trees, I'd've been to the top first and just as safe the old way on this elm. Maybe a little more tired, and sorer shoulders, true.

I did pick up a zubat, and will not put it down. Thanks to TD and MM and all the other constructive advice. Thanks also to TD for the training, it will pay off well on big trees soon.


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## rb_in_va (Mar 28, 2004)

Rocky,

Just offer to take all those "worthless" chains off his hands. Of course, for them to be useful to you then you would need to have a Home Depot saw as well. I would take them. I have a Poulan that was given to me by a friend.


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## Base (Mar 28, 2004)

buying a new chain every time ones goes dull in my opinion is ignorance and these people must be making good money....i mean there have been occasions that i have had to sharpen a chain more than once in a day.......somethings you just cant see like hitting a nail that was put in a tree about 30 years ago......rare but it happened to me....if you dont know the basics of maintenace you should not be operating the kit, as from time to time everything needs tweaking......here in the uk the first NPTC you have to obtain is maintaining a chainsaw....its just common sense........i take it from all this that over your side of the pond you are by law able to operate a chainsaw on someone else's land without any tickets.....is this right?


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## Ax-man (Mar 28, 2004)

I agree with the consenses here that buying a new chain just because one is dull is stupid and throwing money away. How any one could get a job done or make money doing it this way is beyond me. There is a guy in our area that does the same thing, never met him, only heard about him through the local Sthil dealer, knows his business he is just " fussy " about his saw and and cutting.

Base,

What does NPTC stand for????

You guys from the UK could answer this one for me.

You mentioned having a ticket [ license ] to operate a chain saw on some one else 's land. No we don't need to have a ticket for that, not yet any way, 

Question I have is this. Do you guys in the UK have to take a test and pass it and show your quailified, to be able to buy a top - handled chain saw ??

I read this in a trade pub. a while back. I've asked this question before never have gotten an answer. 

Larry


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## Base (Mar 28, 2004)

NPTC stands for National Proficency Tests Council

http://www.nptc.org.uk/ a link to their site should would wished more info

As for top handled chainsaws yes we must have a licence first to be able to achieve the licence you must get maintenance, cross cutting, felling small trees, then climb a tree assessment combined with aeriel rescue, then you have to be assessed on using a chainsaw from a rope and harness.....pass all that and bobs your uncle fannys your aunt they give you a little credit card size licence with your mug shot on and you can go to your local dealer and purchase a top handled, and they have to physically see your card and write your details down before letting you have it ! then you can legally use a top handled saw but only whilst in a rope and harness not allowed to use them on the ground. can get a big fine if mr health and saftey ever catchs you.......

and incidently these tests are not cheap either 

Welcome to the united kingdom


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## legendrider (Mar 28, 2004)

*for dadatwins*

The school was ACRT in OHIO they taught other hitches and knots as well such as the Blake and Prusik. I ended up working with a taughtline and split tail for my practical exam


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## Ax-man (Mar 28, 2004)

Thanks Base, appreciate your reply

Quite a bit more involved than I thought it would be. Some thing like this would definately seperate the pros from the amateurs. Much better than just attending some kind of seminar and recieving a certificate saying your a qualified saw operator, just because you sat in a chair for an hour and listened to some one lecture and demonstrate the proper use of a saw.

Do your customers know this license is required and ask for proof of such??? 

In a way it is a good thing as far as safety, but on the reverse side there is the bureaucratic bs of goverment intervention in private enterprise. I don't think we need to go down this road, we all have such positive things to say about goverment regs. 

  

Larry


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## Base (Mar 28, 2004)

i have only been asked to produce my card on about three occasions two were for people that worked for GCHQ (goverment communications head quaters) and they needed to know every detail etc.... and the other time was when i sub contracted to a large firm, for their insurances purposes.

As for everyone else knowing we have to get these license, i dont know, but if they dont know, they do by the time we leave  another tool to justify your prices.


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## BigJohn (Mar 28, 2004)

My neighbor is the same way. He tells me all the time its easier to just buy new "blades" as he calls them. He is the kind of guy who likes to make extra money doing anything. He has a good job doing electrical work. He tells me how simple my job is and how he could do it better. The guy is overweight, out of shape. Always putting me down for working for someone. This same guy got a tree job and needed a rope wich he doesn't have. So he tells me how he threw the clients garden hose up into this tree and went up it. What an as$. Another time he gets this little pin oak to take down and is there all day gets hardly any of it down and then calls me to finish it. I get there to find a home depot rope tied to a branch with nothing more then one overhand knot that I was able to shake off that he said he used to get up there. Then he proceeds to tell me how to take this 10 minute tree down. 

I also ran into a moron at the saw shop who saw me with some zing it and asks if it was climbing line. I too just shook my head. I wonder why these people don't seek out professional training? I would love to go out with companies and train there men.


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## rahtreelimbs (Mar 28, 2004)

Blades..........that is always a good one.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 28, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BigJohn _
> *
> 
> I also ran into a moron at the saw shop who saw me with some zing it and asks if it was climbing line. I too just shook my head. *



Another oportunity lost, you might have turned it into a buisness relationship.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Mar 29, 2004)

Sounds like a big loss.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Mar 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Ax-man _
> *I agree with the consenses here that buying a new chain
> 
> Base,
> ...


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## a_lopa (Mar 29, 2004)

it ????s me when you turn up to do a qoute and its"we have a saw ourselves just or nephew cant come around just yet"as you stand there looking at a 60ft ????? of a job, or similar sinario,i had one guy with spikes and a polebelt start pinning signs all over town 20%off tree qoutes needless to say he didnt last long,another guy i know works part time and runs his own tree crew from home has own tower chipper etc,he cant even sharpen a saw and wonders why no one wants to work for him


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## Base (Mar 30, 2004)

you getting all PC on my A$$ rollacoaster? ha ha  Though i do agree with you that NPTC is by no mean the be all and end all, as it only teachs you the basics, and the least a tree worker can do is the city and guilds, which i what i have achieved incidentaly, i personally found that it is a very broad introduction to trees and other associated things it starts a need/desire for learning more, which for me makes my job more satifiying, as i like many people it would be nice to go back to school and learn more technical knowledge but unfortunalty i am in no postion to being doing this so i have no option like so many but the learn on the job and from people with years of experiance and also in places like this, as i find it fascinating reading about the different teniques used all around the globe.


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## Newfie (Mar 30, 2004)

*"pass all that and bobs your uncle fannys your aunt "* 



Wow! I think it's easier to get a gun in the states than a top- handle in the UK.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Mar 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Base _
> *you getting all PC on my A$$ rollacoaster? ha ha  Though i do agree with you that NPTC is by no mean the be all and end all, as it only teachs you the basics, and the least a tree worker can do is the city and guilds,
> 
> hi base ive got nptc tickets [i did them in the days when they where affordable] but just recently you cant scratch your a$$ near a tree without having to have nptc certs or so they [nptc] think..without doubt city and guilds is a good all round course,and it is affordable. if the HSE put a stop to our friends in the white transit vans and old gits with volvos and trailers etc i might consider sending my guys on nptc courses..personaly ..i liked LANTRA courses the chainsaw course was only £250 for a one week course it was the same as the nptc ticket and they did climbing courses but NPTC stuck there nose in and killed LANTRA off *


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## JonnyHart (Apr 1, 2004)

You're not a saw hick Rocky. I have a boss that owns his own tree sevice, but he does not know how to sharpen a saw, he takes his chains to a tool shop and they hardly sharpen them, and the chain is burnt and scorched, and they charge him about 3.00$ for a chain on a 24" bar. I swear that on a chains first sharpening, I can make sharper than new. But, like he says, he pays me to put the tree on the ground, not file a saw. A good rule of thumb is if you own a commercial grade chainsaw, you should know how to maintain it. This guy only calls me for removals he can't handle, I take good care of my real boss's saws.


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## ScottyStump (Apr 1, 2004)

*bright side*

Look at the bright side Rock, at least the poor shop owner is making his money.

The guy who owns the shop by me would probably starve if it wasn't for all the ATM card guys.

Matter of fact everytime i sharpen a blade it cuts to the right like it's scared of the left!!!!

-Scotty


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## Husky372 (Apr 1, 2004)

hey scotty if we got together our saws would cut straight cuase mine cut to the left like there scared of the right.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 2, 2004)

I got it, you file one side and he files the other side, the you'll have a screamin saw!


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## Husky372 (Apr 2, 2004)

aint that the truth


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## ScottyStump (Apr 2, 2004)

*haha*

nice.

Marky-Mark gave me a sharpening lesson but it was all for not cause I just can't do it.

Question:

Once the blade is super dull does it make more sense to hit it with the grinder(back past the rounded tip), touch it up with the round file or keep filing with the round file, alone, until sharp?


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## Dadatwins (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: haha*



> _Originally posted by ScottyStump _
> *nice.
> 
> Marky-Mark gave me a sharpening lesson but it was all for not cause I just can't do it.
> ...



I hope you are talking about sharping a chainsaw. Try getting a file guide and practice a while with it until you are comfortable with the motion. Free hand filing really is a knack but it can be done by most with some practice. Anything badly rounded over usually comes out better with a grinder to get the angle back and free hand to get it sharp.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 2, 2004)

to several sharpening classes at tradeshows, ones put on by the chain OEM rep.

WHen you have a damamged *cutter* they say it is best to use a flatfile to bring it back to true before using the round file to profile it.


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## ScottyStump (Apr 2, 2004)

*thanks*

thanks guys.

My local chainsaw shop is owned by a man who either has no personality or he is scared of me. I asked him for some hints but he didn't offer any.

I see him every month or so and ask the same question and I get the same answer, 7.00 to sharpen your chain.

I'll try truing it up with the flat file and then finishing it with the round file.

With my luck it'll start cutting to the left!!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 2, 2004)

Have you checked the bar for a bur yet?


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## JonnyHart (Apr 2, 2004)

So some of you guys use those guides? I never tried one, what exactly do they do?


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## Dadatwins (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: thanks*



> _Originally posted by ScottyStump _
> *thanks guys.
> 
> My local chainsaw shop is owned by a man who either has no personality or he is scared of me. I asked him for some hints but he didn't offer any.
> ...



Most store owners do not want give sharpening tips out because it is an easy $7.00 to them to sharpen or more for a new chain. Think about first post of this thread guy buys a new chain when his is dull. Think of all the newly sharpened chain this storeowner is probably selling on ebay. It will take some practice to get it right but it will be worth it the first time you hit a dirt pocket after the store has closed.


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## Dadatwins (Apr 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JonnyHart _
> *So some of you guys use those guides? I never tried one, what exactly do they do? *



File guide is supposed to give you an accurate and consistant angle when sharpening a chain. My opinion is they are good to get the feel for the motion and the angle but I can get better edge free hand. If you have never sharpened a chain before they can be helpful to get the feel of angle and pitch. After some practice you will put it in storage.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 2, 2004)

I know several people who think the Pherd Chainsarp is worth the cost. It knocks down the raker as you sharpen the cutter.


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## JonnyHart (Apr 2, 2004)

I have only sharpened freehand before. I use a flat file on the rakers or depth guages when the cutter is a little old. If the cutter is sharp, and the saw don't cut great, I'll take a few strokes off the raker. Stihl chain is great, got the angle carved on every tooth. Still think oregon holds an edge better, and it's a little cheaper.Hey, I'm new at this.


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## blackwaterguide (Apr 3, 2004)

All of us have walked before running, this pertaining to near all areas of life. I went from a hack country boy logger, and by persistence, became quite a feller (pun).
Help your fellow man when uyou can. You may save his life. There is so much more to life than being a pro at something.


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## rbtree (Apr 3, 2004)

Jonny,
I've only just started using Stihl chain, mostly have used Oregon. Most everyone here says Stihl holds an edge quite a bit better, stretches less, carries oil better.


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## JonnyHart (Apr 3, 2004)

I will always respect seniority, had my dad beat it into me. What about oregon or windsor bars? I think the stihls fall apart, and bur up alot more often. Honestly, it seems like oregon chain just holds up to abuse better. I feel that if you are on a budget, you will be more satisfied with oregon. Also, am I a dummy for using an 039 to push a 28" bar? Closest thing to a big saw I got. Thanx for replies.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Apr 3, 2004)

if you cant sharpen a chain ..then what else cant you do ..fall a tree???....sned it up???...etc..etc ..sharpening a chain is at the basics of this industry..if they cant sharpen chain ...they obviously havent learnt much ..i would NEVER EVER let a guy loose with a saw without that person being able too manage the basics of saw maintanance firstly....this industry is full of clowns that give this industry a bad name..weed the hacks out so that ,the good arborists amongst us get the recognition we deserve........


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## JonnyHart (Apr 3, 2004)

The guy who can't sharpen a saw is always the first numbnuts to run it into the ground too.


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## OutOnaLimb (Apr 3, 2004)

My new groundie swears up and down that he has felled big timber in the Pacific Northwest;. Yet when he has nothing else to do and starts sharpening chains, they always have that worn out rounded edge at the tips of the cutters and you can still see where the edge of the tooth is still worn. Is it just me, but a crisp clean cutter is the only satisfactory way of sharpening a chain. Oh, did I mention this guy has a fit every time that he skips a chain limbing, and swears its because of the saw????

Kenn

:Monkey:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 3, 2004)

That's when i yell "Operator Malfunction!"


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## Marky Mark (Apr 3, 2004)

Hey Scott stay away from Gus and go to Joe up at Copras Moutain. He'll give you a lesson in a nice dry building as opossed to my tailgate 90 second tickle in the rain. 

Once again thanks for the stump grinding job and I just started to do the roof on the old barn and took the old chicken shed down. Stop by for some eggs, grab a dozen on the front porch.


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## jamie (Apr 4, 2004)

*NPTC and maintenance*

ive only been able to afford the treeclimbing and chainsaw nptc units total cost £700 and that was with ESF (european social funding) thats around $1150.....

first thing we were taught in 'saw school' was maintenance...sharpening it, what the parts were and how to fix them, every morning quick q+a session on saws, out for a days cutting then back to teh workshop and more maintenance....

from what i know LANTRA went down the pan and to work as a pro you need NPTC units.......up here we dont have city and guilds. i have done my RFS certificafe in arb.

not being able to sharpen a saw, or understand that chains stretch is ignorance, i know someone who wont stick the saw in the ground because he doesnt want it to kickback.....(i said rubbish all it does is make the bar all dirty and not look as nice )

jamie


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## ScottyStump (Apr 4, 2004)

*Stumps kill cutters*

I'll learn the hard way. I like to trim the stumps down as far as I can so I don't have to grind as much and that is the key to my problem. 

Thanks for the eggs Mark!


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 4, 2004)

ALAP!!!


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## Crofter (Apr 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Marky Mark _
> *Hey Scott stay away from Gus and go to Joe up at Copras Moutain. He'll give you a lesson in a nice dry building as opossed to my tailgate 90 second tickle in the rain.
> 
> Once again thanks for the stump grinding job and I just started to do the roof on the old barn and took the old chicken shed down. Stop by for some eggs, grab a dozen on the front porch. *



Marky you better be careful peddling your produce here or Che and I will put in a complaint to Darrin. Anyways this is supposed to be about chainsaws and hardwary kinda thingeys

Frank


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## Ax-man (Apr 8, 2004)

I don't know if I met the the " typical tree guy" today, but I think I might have met the " typical climber " today.

We were finishing up some odds and ends for our camp ground client today. Across from the site we were working, was this guy taking down some small dead elms. I was a litlle annoyed they were in my turf, but the campground didn't hire them, the owners of the site did, private thing that I wasn't involved in.

Anyway, I watched this guy from afar, climbing with spurs, no problem with that at all, the only safety this guy had was his climbing line tied around any handy limb that was close, no lanyard for a back-up. It was obvious from the way he moved on the spurs and handled a saw he had some experience. I just went about our work and let him have fun. Wasn't my place to correct him, that he wasn't working safely.

Before we left another guy had the gear on ( old worn stuff) it was obvious the experienced climber was teaching the new guy, this I had to watch. The new guy got a few steps up the tree, teacher was explaining how to advance the rope and some thing like body thrusting to pull slack.

I noticed their taut line had no stopper on the end of it, this is when I went over to at least give this safety tip. After making this suggestion, the reply to me from the experienced one was " I have never had that knot roll out, it only happens on cheap rope, not good rope like this " ( Arbor Plex ). In addition to no stopper on the TL , the knot for the D's on the saddle had two turns around the working side, going to a short tailed TL, no stopper. I don't think I've seen that one in twenty years. 

I got no problem with this guy being old school, but the fact that he said he trained people, TL no stopper with short tail, no lanyard, worn old gear, didn't really know how to use his climbing line. This I do have a problem with, how many people has this guy trained wrong, that are going to pass it on to others.

I asked this guy if he knew about a Blakes or a VT, of course he said no, with a dumb look on his face. 

I wanted to help, to at least get this new guy going in the right direction, but it was like running up into a brick wall. I just said good luck and left him to his training the new guy. 

Larry


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## JonnyHart (Apr 8, 2004)

HE MUST BE STOPPED!!! I mean, if thats the way the moron does it ( body thrust while wearing gaffs on a dead elm removal ) , and he don't want to learn anything, fine, F^#@ him. But it's not cool for him to be training somebody. Somebody is really gonna get hurt. If you ever see the trainee again, maybe jot down this site for him. Start him at injurys and fatalities. Yeah man, too typical.


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## xander9727 (Apr 8, 2004)

To think some of our peers wonder how we beat commercial fishing this year for most dangerous job in America! Definately turn him on to this site. You can learn more in one year on this site than you would in a lifetime with some hack.

They wonder how you get the job even though you had a higher bid. Maybe it was due to the fact that 1) I wore a shirt on the bid 2) I didn't smell of alcohol or tobacco products or 3) I actually asked the customer what they wanted and educated them on the best way to achieve the results they wanted (if possible).

Got a call today to top four trees in someones backyard. Trying to decide if I should return the call and try and educate them or just ignore them.


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## a_lopa (Apr 9, 2004)

i think everyone would be surprised how many guys just use a harness and polebelt there are plenty of hacks out there


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 9, 2004)

I watched a couple guys trimming oaks like that last week. No rope, buckstrap lanyard, and spurs. They thought they were pretty cool. I thought they were stupid.


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## jkrueger (Apr 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by xander9727 _
> *...[deletion]
> Got a call today to top four trees in someones backyard. Trying to decide if I should return the call and try and educate them or just ignore them. *



You have NO choice, ... , of course call them and educate. (Or, just tell them they will be put on the ISA hit list.


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## xander9727 (Apr 9, 2004)

Hmmm. I didn't know they had a hit list.


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## JonnyHart (Apr 9, 2004)

That would help eliminate alot of competion.


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