# Mastermind Meets The MS661 C-M



## Mastermind

I've been waiting to do this one for awhile......but here we are.





Notice that they have changed the series number? This is truly a whole new design.


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## MasterMech

I think somebody's gonna have him a new favorite saw. Can't wait to see under the hood.


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## Mastermind

I really like this....





1/4 turn.....













Now we go get it dirty.....


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## clemsonfor

Heard about the new saw at the dealer last week. Does look like a totally different saw at least plastic wise. 

Sent from my C5155 using Tapatalk


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## Mastermind

I hate this new format.....


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## Mastermind

I just lost a whole post with several pictures and text.

I ain't got time for this ****....


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## MasterMech

Mastermind said:


> I just lost a whole post with several pictures and text.
> 
> I ain't got time for this ****....


It should save a draft Randy. Will show up if you reload the thread as light gray letters. At least that's how it works on that other place I hang out.


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## Mastermind

It showed up after I gave up.......I had a hell of a time getting it to edit one pic. 

I just put the damn saw back in the box for now.


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## Tnshaker

That is very sexy..I was just about to pull the trigger on a 461. Hmmm that has me thinking...........


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## MasterMech

Mastermind said:


> It showed up after I gave up.......I had a hell of a time getting it to edit one pic.
> 
> I just put the damn saw back in the box for now.


Spoiled the mood did it?


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## 7sleeper

Oh you got one?! There is a big recall in Germany. All owners are asked by Stihl to return them for "unknown" reasons and are supposed to be refunded. We will see what you find.

here is the link to our partner site in Germany
http://forum.motorsaegen-portal.de/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73717

7


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## sefh3

Is that a trap door in the handle? I see it's for oil adjustments but looks like a trap door.


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## BKrusher

7sleeper said:


> Oh you got one?! There is a big recall in Germany. All owners are asked by Stihl to return them for "unknown" reasons and are supposed to be refunded. We will see what you find.
> 
> here is the link to our partner site in Germany
> http://forum.motorsaegen-portal.de/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73717
> 
> 7


 good link if I knew how to speak German...


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## 7sleeper

BKrusher said:


> good link if I knew how to speak German...


You can use google translate, or if you have a certain passage I can translate for you.

7


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## SAWMIKAZE

Looks a little slimmer and a little taller than a 660 !..better handling i suppose ?


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## John R

Read this and left to go to the dealer to look, no 661 yet, he said first of the year he should have some.
Been looking on the bay and the saws on there go for almost the price of a new one,
So I'll just wait, not in a big hurry.
I don't need this much saw, but I really want one.
What kind of AV does this new saw have?


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## wigglesworth

Where's the carb adjustment holes???


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## Trx250r180

this thread feels like when the viagra quits working...........


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## 7sleeper

There are versions available with regular carb.

7


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## walexa07

Does the master switch stay in the run position like the 261C does, and must be held up in the stop position to kill the saw (then returns to run position when let off)? My 441C does not do that? Just wondering.

Thanks,

Waylan


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## zogger

According to that link, (only read two pages of posts) hauling 'em all back for sure...

...don't know if it would be a good idea to grind on that thing right now until this recall gets sorted out..just sayin..no idea on the domestic USA saws.


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## nstueve

Did anyone else see the picture below and think, "where they heck is the exhaust outlet?" Also I noticed that there is a slot in the top of the clutch cover almost like there should be a bow bar on this thing or a brake arm poping out of there. Lastly I noticed that there isn't any reflective heat tape under the muffler.

Just another 2 cents from the peanut gallery...




Mastermind said:


>


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## Mastermind

It's back in the box......between this crappy computer (the one I normally use in the shop took a dump) and the site acting weird I ain't doing any thread. Sorry. 

I'll ask the owner about the recall. Stihl never tells anyone a damn thing.


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## nk14zp

Trx250r180 said:


> this thread feels like when the viagra quits working...........


You should know.


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## BKrusher

7sleeper said:


> You can use google translate, or if you have a certain passage I can translate for you.
> 
> 7


ok thanks 7...I think what you mentioned above the link says it all unless its in jest...


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## mdavlee

Well that sucks the computer ain't working right. Just do it and then show us videos. We don't need all the stuff in between to get us all excited for days.


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## Stihlman441

I see the HD2 filter is a little different.


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## Stihlman441

Ha Randy
Would like to see stages in the build like you did for the 261C, muff modd,squish compression and then ported to see the gains for each stage.Ya i know i dont wont much but your a nice bloke and will love to do it.


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## LowVolt

Damn. I got all excited for nothing. 

Delete the thread. I hate being teased.


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## opinion

7sleeper said:


> Oh you got one?! There is a big recall in Germany. All owners are asked by Stihl to return them for "unknown" reasons and are supposed to be refunded. We will see what you find.
> 
> here is the link to our partner site in Germany
> http://forum.motorsaegen-portal.de/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73717
> 
> 7



Interesting. The Wrap models were available to order about a month ago, now they've been gone from ordering.


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## SAWMIKAZE

Im depressed now..


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## Gologit

Mastermind said:


> It's back in the box......between this crappy computer (the one I normally use in the shop took a dump) and the site acting weird I ain't doing any thread. Sorry.
> 
> I'll ask the owner about the recall. Stihl never tells anyone a damn thing.



He might have trouble getting a straight answer from Stihl. They sold a few here and then quit selling them altogether. I deal with two very good and knowledgeable saw shops, _real_ saw shops, and they're scratching their heads too. The answers as to why are all over the board, everything from needing to sell the last of the 660s or unspecified problems with the AV to you name it, which tells me that Stihl isn't giving out a lot of information to their dealers either. 

All I know, and all I can say, is that the 661 got the crap ran out of it in field tests by loggers for quite a while. It was run hard, abused even, with the purpose of looking for weak spots in the design. It looked like a good saw from the start and I can't imagine any late appearing defect serious enough to cause a recall.

If I had to believe anything, and I'm not saying it's the actual cause, I'd say it's probably a lot of unsold 660 inventory that's causing the hangup. Our local prices on 661s aren't much different from the 660s but I think that's about to change.


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## mdavlee

They may not want to get stuck on a few hundred 660s once people figure out the saw isn't a turd.


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## LowVolt

Talked to my stihl dealer yesterday about the 661. He said he just got back from a stihl class/workshop and he got to run a 661. They also had a 660 to run side by side with the 661 and he said it was nice. The only thing he commented on was how smooth the 661 was compared to the 660. He was not sure when it would be available. He is looking into it.

Just thought it would share.


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## gr8mac

It's a sexy looking saw for sure. Only time will tell!


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## zogger

nstueve said:


> Did anyone else see the picture below and think, "where they heck is the exhaust outlet?" Also I noticed that there is a slot in the top of the clutch cover almost like there should be a bow bar on this thing or a brake arm poping out of there. Lastly I noticed that there isn't any reflective heat tape under the muffler.
> 
> Just another 2 cents from the peanut gallery...



...back at Schteel intergalactic HQ..

"Yo, Hans, ver ist der muffler openzing mit der nue zix zixty einz"?

"I am tinking dis vas Dieterz job.."

"@@#$%^&^&#!!, mach schnell, issue zee recall"!!!


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## XSKIER

I really like how the oiler adjustment graphic goes from a little to E to HOLY CRAP!


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## 7sleeper

Gologit said:


> He might have trouble getting a straight answer from Stihl. They sold a few here and then quit selling them altogether. I deal with two very good and knowledgeable saw shops, _real_ saw shops, and they're scratching their heads too. The answers as to why are all over the board, everything from needing to sell the last of the 660s or unspecified problems with the AV to you name it, which tells me that Stihl isn't giving out a lot of information to their dealers either.
> 
> All I know, and all I can say, is that the 661 got the crap ran out of it in field tests by loggers for quite a while. It was run hard, abused even, with the purpose of looking for weak spots in the design. It looked like a good saw from the start and I can't imagine any late appearing defect serious enough to cause a recall.
> 
> If I had to believe anything, and I'm not saying it's the actual cause, I'd say it's probably a lot of unsold 660 inventory that's causing the hangup. Our local prices on 661s aren't much different from the 660s but I think that's about to change.


One dealer in the thread I linked commented that there are supposed to have been problems with the cylinder plating and with the ignition module. 

7


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## shootingarts

Gologit said:


> All I know, and all I can say, is that the 661 got the crap ran out of it in field tests by loggers for quite a while. It was run hard, abused even, with the purpose of looking for weak spots in the design. It looked like a good saw from the start and I can't imagine any late appearing defect serious enough to cause a recall.



Never any guarantees. The companies test, send out units to get used hard, and in the end there still may be major issues show up after the unit has been on the street awhile. That just happened with a pretty simple piece of equipment, but pricey. We are talking hundreds of thousands per. Factory testing went fine, a few test machines out, then sold a few hundred units. Went to move into a new marketing area over a year later and the first one to hit the area had a serious glitch. Notified the manufacturer on the other side of the world. They had no problem duplicating the issue. Every blessed unit has it! Years of R&D, a comparatively high number of them in daily use, as soon as a new set of hands started to test it a little bit, major issue.

Every manufacturer knows that despite their best efforts the real testing occurs out in the real world in the hands of real users. I think they all hold their breath awhile when anything new comes out.

Sure disappointed in this thread myself. I was ready to kickback and read another outstanding mastermind thread. Where is that thumb down button, that'll fix him! 

Hu


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## clemsonfor

MasterMech said:


> It should save a draft Randy. Will show up if you reload the thread as light gray letters. At least that's how it works on that other place I hang out.


It do sent always!! Trust me I know I have lost a half dozen posts over there some with multiple pictures. No reloading, going back or forward will do it.

Sent from my C5155 using Tapatalk


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## Trx250r180

well at least it's not a fuel cap recall


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## mdavlee

Trx250r180 said:


> well at least it's not a fuel cap recall



If it was they would never live it down.


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## Buffhunter

Its a damn conspiracy against Mastermind..... Stihl doesn't want him to show everybody how their design can gain 40-50% more power....


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## like2surf

I just called the Stihl shop that I bought my 461 at to ask if they had a 661 and they said that they wont have any until after the first of the year. He said that Stihl had recalled the ones that they sold because of cylinder problems.


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## Andyshine77

Does anyone know who's making these cylinders? I had a 460 with a Stihl branded cylinder. It had some pitting near the base "not a big deal IMHO" and man the plating seemed to chip quite easily. Now if it's a Mahle or Gilardoni there's little Stihl can do, other than have them fix the issue. If this is truly the cause of the recall, well **** happens. No manufacture makes every single part, so this stuff happens from time to time. Look what happened to some of the early Husky AT saws, bad carbs, coils and even simple items like screws.


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## Mastermind

I'll make a stock video of the saw tomorrow.......this place just ain't the same though. 

This format sucks. Sometimes it works fine, other times you make a post and it ends up on ****ing mars or some ****.


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## mdavlee

Yeah it is different. I thought I replied a minute ago and then went to new posts and it wasn't there. Not sure what happened.


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## treesmith

Teething problems, Audi and Volkswagen had big problems with gearbox recalls, Toyota brakes didn't work, Mercedes managed to flip two race cars at Le Mans 99 from bad aero design, it happens, they'll fix it. 

Sent from my GT-I9210T


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## komatsuvarna

Go ahead and port it Randy! If they do recall the saw, you can show them how it shoulda been!


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## morewood

Mastermind said:


> I'll make a stock video of the saw tomorrow.......this place just ain't the same though.
> 
> This format sucks. Sometimes it works fine, other times you make a post and it ends up on ****ing mars or some ****.




Must stay calm. A little holiday music, time with the family, go at it tomorrow on a new day. It's too close to Christmas for me to lose it over a new sight that DOESN'T have LinkBucks.

Shea


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## boxygen

Common Chimp,stop being so dramatic


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## Mastermind

Let me see if the owner is damn sure he wants this thing ported. You guys have me worried about this recall ********.


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## bryanr2

Just in case the 661 proves to be a game changer..... a recall would give me time to "market" a kidney.


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## Mastermind

The owner has given me the green light.


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## Mac 6-10

treesmith said:


> Teething problems, Audi and Volkswagen had big problems with gearbox recalls, Toyota brakes didn't work, Mercedes managed to flip two race cars at Le Mans 99 from bad aero design, it happens, they'll fix it.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9210T




If only they could fix their oil leak problems


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## bryanr2

With as much as this saw has been anticipated.... Id say this thread will single-handedly (sounds right in my head) shut down the classified section of AS. Classifieds got the makings of becoming a "buyers" market for sure.


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## Mastermind

I'll post some videos tomorrow if the weather is good.


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## DexterDay

opcorn:

Looking forward to your fine thread Randy!! 

Give it a little kick @zz


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## Andyshine77

Mastermind said:


> The owner has given me the green light.



So what oil ratio are you going to use???


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## Mastermind

I won't be able to post from the shop. I'll have to wait till tomorrow after work to post. I think the laptop may have been more the issue than the site when I tried to start this thread. My tolerance for ******** has been low these last few days.


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## singinwoodwackr

Gologit said:


> He might have trouble getting a straight answer from Stihl. They sold a few here and then quit selling them altogether. I deal with two very good and knowledgeable saw shops, _real_ saw shops, and they're scratching their heads too. The answers as to why are all over the board, everything from needing to sell the last of the 660s or unspecified problems with the AV to you name it, which tells me that Stihl isn't giving out a lot of information to their dealers either.
> 
> All I know, and all I can say, is that the 661 got the crap ran out of it in field tests by loggers for quite a while. It was run hard, abused even, with the purpose of looking for weak spots in the design. It looked like a good saw from the start and I can't imagine any late appearing defect serious enough to cause a recall.
> 
> If I had to believe anything, and I'm not saying it's the actual cause, I'd say it's probably a lot of unsold 660 inventory that's causing the hangup. Our local prices on 661s aren't much different from the 660s but I think that's about to change.



I got the same from my long-term friend/dealer in Turlock  and...he's good friends with the Stihl rep for Cali.


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## singinwoodwackr

Mastermind said:


> Let me see if the owner is damn sure he wants this thing ported. You guys have me worried about this recall ********.


chances are you'll find what's wrong the cylinders...and fix it


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## singinwoodwackr

how do you cancel a double post??


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## Buffhunter

YOU CAN DO IT RANDY MAKE THAT 661 YOUR BIT$H!!!!!!


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## porsche965

I had the option of returning my 661 for a replacement or refund, or just run it. Dealer is a personal friend and has given me his word essentially for the life of the saw he will take care of anything down the road should there arise a problem. Since I don't cut more than a few cords a year. That's what I call a great Dealer. 
I opted to keep the saw and see how things go. One way to tell what is wrong....wait until it breaks.
The proto types that were out here this passed summer passed with flying colors in logger's hands for months. So why now the problem? Don't know.

What little I have run the 661 it is everything and more than you see and have heard in all good ways. Way Smooth is an understatement.


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## Trx250r180

Am curious how this saw does against a mastermind 461 or a 660


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## Mtthwvn

Subscribed... 
If I had the extra cash and could justify the cost to the misses I'd love to have one. Just a little large for what I've been cutting, but you never know what your going to get into....right?


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## mitch95100

I have a feeling that the test saws stihl sent out were possibly built better than the mass produced versions we buy. Example. Mahler makes a prototype cylinder for a 661 test saw. They measure and precisely make the cylinders for, lets say 10 test 661's. All precisely plated and machiened to spec. Those work great. Now lets say Mahle signs a contract other stihl to make 1 million cylinders for the 661. Now all of a sudden their not going to be as dead nuts precise and anal about 1 million as they were with 10.
Just a thought


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## 7sleeper

Mastermind said:


> I won't be able to post from the shop. I'll have to wait till tomorrow after work to post. I think the laptop may have been more the issue than the site when I tried to start this thread. My tolerance for ******** has been low these last few days.


To much christmas stress at the moment?! It tends to get worse till the end of the year. 

Hope you find some time to step back and refocus, so that you find your equilibrium again!

7


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## splitpost

Subbed

Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2


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## BKrusher

mitch95100 said:


> I have a feeling that the test saws stihl sent out were possibly built better than the mass produced versions we buy. Example. Mahler makes a prototype cylinder for a 661 test saw. They measure and precisely make the cylinders for, lets say 10 test 661's. All precisely plated and machiened to spec. Those work great. Now lets say Mahle signs a contract other stihl to make 1 million cylinders for the 661. Now all of a sudden their not going to be as dead nuts precise and anal about 1 million as they were with 10.
> Just a thought


 I don't agree...why would they test the crap out of these "super" prototypes and then manufacture a inferior mainstream 661 that they would have to stand by....IMO


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## deye223

Stihlman441 said:


> I see the HD2 filter is a little different.



and a lot bigger more air flow


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## Warped5

Mastermind said:


> I'll make a stock video of the saw tomorrow.......this place just ain't the same though.
> 
> This format sucks. Sometimes it works fine, other times you make a post and it ends up on ****ing mars or some ****.



I have not seen such problems as described. Must be the carbon-based life form at the keyboard .... put down the gun, it's easier to type!


As far as the recall goes, I have no such issues with my Macs, Pioneers ....


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## gr8mac

B


mitch95100 said:


> I have a feeling that the test saws stihl sent out were possibly built better than the mass produced versions we buy. Example. Mahler makes a prototype cylinder for a 661 test saw. They measure and precisely make the cylinders for, lets say 10 test 661's. All precisely plated and machiened to spec. Those work great. Now lets say Mahle signs a contract other stihl to make 1 million cylinders for the 661. Now all of a sudden their not going to be as dead nuts precise and anal about 1 million as they were with 10.
> Just a thought


i


Bingo!!!!!!"


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## bryanr2

Mastermind said:


> *I won't be able to post from the shop. I'll have to wait till tomorrow after work to post.* I think the laptop may have been more the issue than the site when I tried to start this thread. My tolerance for ******** has been low these last few days.



Do you eat lunch in the shop? Going in the house for lunch would be a perfect opportunity for videos.


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## glock37

Mastermind said:


> I won't be able to post from the shop. I'll have to wait till tomorrow after work to post. I think the laptop may have been more the issue than the site when I tried to start this thread. My tolerance for ******** has been low these last few days.



So its a bad time to call ya. Lol


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## Agoraphobia

BKrusher said:


> I don't agree...why would they test the crap out of these "super" prototypes and then manufacture a inferior mainstream 661 that they would have to stand by....IMO


 They don't do it on purpose, but it's the nature of prototyping and tooling. You just can't simulate mass production in small runs. I guess they could build them all on the Friday before Octoberfest?


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## redfin

What are the specs on this saw?


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## nstueve

BKrusher said:


> I don't agree...why would they test the crap out of these "super" prototypes and then manufacture a inferior mainstream 661 that they would have to stand by....IMO





mitch95100 said:


> I have a feeling that the test saws stihl sent out were possibly built better than the mass produced versions we buy. Example. Mahler makes a prototype cylinder for a 661 test saw. They measure and precisely make the cylinders for, lets say 10 test 661's. All precisely plated and machiened to spec. Those work great. Now lets say Mahle signs a contract other stihl to make 1 million cylinders for the 661. Now all of a sudden their not going to be as dead nuts precise and anal about 1 million as they were with 10.
> Just a thought



Ok lets back up the BS train for a minute and stop speculating. I'm sure that some cylinders are a hair less desireable than some in a large run but overall Mahle makes a great quality product and that's why tons of OEM cylinders are Mahle.

I didn't even see anyone mention the fact that 661's are sent out as "prototypes."

"But what the heck does that have to do with anything, Nathan?"

It means the prototypes can be passed to testing hands without passing CARB (EPA) emissions standards. So Stihl takes a great running prototype that hasn't had any problems in the field, and now needs to put their money into getting it EPA certified to sell in the states. There's no reason to do it the other way around if the 661 blows and needs major overhauls. I'm sure stihl does some testing to make sure they can get close enough to pass the EPA testing. However, between prototype and production there are still changes that they make; whether it be for emissions or other reasons... If I'm not mistaken they also have to pass an ANSI or another safety rating to make sure that consumers are safe from the product being marketed.

*Anyhow my point is pretty simple. Prototype doesn't = production.


*


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## gr8mac

nstueve said:


> Ok lets back up the BS train for a minute and stop speculating. I'm sure that some cylinders are a hair less desireable than some in a large run but overall Mahle makes a great quality product and that's why tons of OEM cylinders are Mahle.
> 
> I didn't even see anyone mention the fact that 661's are sent out as "prototypes."
> 
> "But what the heck does that have to do with anything, Nathan?"
> 
> It means the prototypes can be passed to testing hands without passing CARB (EPA) emissions standards. So Stihl takes a great running prototype that hasn't had any problems in the field, and now needs to put their money into getting it EPA certified to sell in the states. There's no reason to do it the other way around if the 661 blows and needs major overhauls. I'm sure stihl does some testing to make sure they can get close enough to pass the EPA testing. However, between prototype and production there are still changes that they make; whether it be for emissions or other reasons... If I'm not mistaken they also have to pass an ANSI or another safety rating to make sure that consumers are safe from the product being marketed.
> 
> *Anyhow my point is pretty simple. Prototype doesn't = production.
> *



Yep. They would also want to pass ul


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## Mastermind

It's cold here today.


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## morewood

Mastermind said:


> It's cold here today.


 I would take cold and chainsaws over what I'm doing.

Shea


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## Jimmy in NC

Cold air makes more power....


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## porsche965

The Germans don't take recalls or comebacks lightly. I'm sure somebody(s) has had a come to Jesus meeting with the Directors over this in Germany.
However, it is encouraging to see such a large company attempt to keep the heat off of their Dealers by immediately calling for ALL the stock back, even the sold 661s. To issue refunds on the spot or offer 660s to the Professionals knowing that their income depends, on their product, to put food on their family's tables. To me that is commendable for any company to consider others instead of just their own profits. 
We can guess away as to what and why went wrong but I'm sure there are those in Germany not sleeping well right now. Remember this is what I've heard called their "Flagship Chainsaw" replacing the Timbersports famous 660s. The world is watching. They will work it out.

To Master Mind's customer that was willing to donate his 661 not knowing how things will turn out. That takes guts. Thank you!


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## mitch95100

gr8mac said:


> Yep.  They would also want to pass ul


Ok so with our Strict EPA standards its screwing up the new chainsaws on the market. We knew that, BUT Stihl should be able to make the damn things run right or don't put them on the market hoping they will run, because they wont.


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## pro94lt

Dealers around here have told me the 661 doesn't exist let alone heard of a recall...


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## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> It's cold here today.




post the damn video already opcorn:


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## 7sleeper

nstueve said:


> Ok lets back up the BS train for a minute and stop speculating. I'm sure that some cylinders are a hair less desireable than some in a large run but overall Mahle makes a great quality product and that's why tons of OEM cylinders are Mahle.
> 
> I didn't even see anyone mention the fact that 661's are sent out as "prototypes."
> 
> "But what the heck does that have to do with anything, Nathan?"
> 
> It means the prototypes can be passed to testing hands without passing CARB (EPA) emissions standards. So Stihl takes a great running prototype that hasn't had any problems in the field, and now needs to put their money into getting it EPA certified to sell in the states. There's no reason to do it the other way around if the 661 blows and needs major overhauls. I'm sure stihl does some testing to make sure they can get close enough to pass the EPA testing. However, between prototype and production there are still changes that they make; whether it be for emissions or other reasons... If I'm not mistaken they also have to pass an ANSI or another safety rating to make sure that consumers are safe from the product being marketed.
> 
> *Anyhow my point is pretty simple. Prototype doesn't = production.
> *





mitch95100 said:


> Ok so with our Strict EPA standards its screwing up the new chainsaws on the market. We knew that, BUT Stihl should be able to make the damn things run right or don't put them on the market hoping they will run, because they wont.


 You guys really believe that Stihl Germany cares one second about EPA rules or haven't covered safety ratings?! We have much strickter rules here in Europe! The recall has nothing to do with any EPA paranoia. If you mass produce, sometimes things can go wrong. The recall program started in Germany and not in the US. At least Stihl had the balls to be consequent! I consider that a trait of the past, it was called when I was young "handshake quality"! Not seen often anymore and by reading some comments here not wanted anymore!

Comparing it to Husqvarna who just rode it out and hoped for the best! And now after the how many software updates/part replacement programs the saws seems to be stable. Still amazed that no legal suites have been filed sofar. This would be the "modern" way.

7


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## mitch95100

7sleeper said:


> You guys really believe that Stihl Germany cares one second about EPA rules or haven't covered safety ratings?! We have much strickter rules here in Europe! The recall has nothing to do with any EPA paranoia. If you mass produce, sometimes things can go wrong. The recall program started in Germany and not in the US. At least Stihl had the balls to be consequent! I consider that a trait of the past, it was called when I was young "handshake quality"! Not seen often anymore and by reading some comments here not wanted anymore!
> 
> Comparing it to Husqvarna who just rode it out and hoped for the best! And now after the how many software updates/part replacement programs the saws seems to be stable. Still amazed that no legal suites have been filed sofar. This would be the "modern" way.
> 
> 7


I in no way said it was the EPA. Yes they screw with our stuff but IMHO this recall probably had something to with the manufacturing in the parts somewhere. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lark-o

Mastermind said:


> It's cold here today.


Wanna trade? It's a dam heat wave here today... High of 17! This is the warmest it's been in 2 weeks.


----------



## mitch95100

Lark-o said:


> Wanna trade? It's a dam heat wave here today... High of 17! This is the warmest it's been in 2 weeks.


Lol I was watching -12 last night. A bit nippy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lark-o

zogger said:


> ...back at Schteel intergalactic HQ..
> 
> "Yo, Hans, ver ist der muffler openzing mit der nue zix zixty einz"?
> 
> "I am tinking dis vas Dieterz job.."
> 
> "@@#$%^&^&#!!, mach schnell, issue zee recall"!!!


Lol
So I'm not the only one that brandishes a German English language at times?


----------



## LegDeLimber

Let me second that that thought about the gracious customer. 
i.e. What Porsche965 said.
--
porsche965

To Master Mind's customer that was willing to donate his 661 not knowing how things will turn out. That takes guts. Thank you!
--
bryanr2

Mastermind said: ↑

“I won't be able to post from the shop. I'll have to wait till tomorrow after work to post. I think the laptop may have been more the issue than the site when I tried to start this thread. My tolerance for ******** has been low these last few days.

Do you eat lunch in the shop? Going in the house for lunch would be a perfect opportunity for videos.
=
Lunch in the house?
Naaahhhhh


----------



## Mastermind

This laptop is the problem.......it's just slow, and locks up a lot. I have zero patience for that sort of stuff.


----------



## Naked Arborist

Mastermind said:


> This laptop is the problem.......it's just slow, and locks up a lot. I have zero patience for that sort of stuff.


Maybe your laptop got a case of linkbucks?

I'll assume they change the material somewhat for the jug plating. Bet it was not on the prototypes. If this is the problem, it is better than a major design **** up.


----------



## Gologit

pro94lt said:


> Dealers around here have told me the 661 doesn't exist let alone heard of a recall...


 
Better find different dealers.


----------



## Lark-o

Mastermind said:


> This laptop is the problem.......it's just slow, and locks up a lot. I have zero patience for that sort of stuff.


you can fix that laptop with some tannerite.


----------



## morewood

Mastermind said:


> This laptop is the problem.......it's just slow, and locks up a lot. I have zero patience for that sort of stuff.


 

Whine, nag, **tch, and complain. A piece of chinese electronics giving you problems? I thought this thread was about a mythical chainsaw, a unicorn amongst the heathern. Something only whispered of in the big wood but rarely seen and never heard. If we must bash something, lets keep it a 2-stroke, ok!!

Shea

PS-The wife, a highly educated, computer literate humanoid ordered us a new computer last week. When it came she plugged it up, sat down and put it in her lap so as to play around with it. Shortly after she sat down she put it in the floor and left it!! Something about the new operating system having nothing in common with the old.....I haven't touched it yet!!


----------



## shootingarts

Every manufacturer of an end product is counting on a lot of manufacturers behind them doing things right. Sometimes errors happen or shortcuts are deliberately taken somewhere down the line, more often there is a material or process issue. Sometimes, most embarrassingly for those of us that have worked in design, we simply didn't allow for how the end user would use and sometimes abuse a product. Even abuse if it is wide spread has to be dealt with in some manner in the design process. My longwinded way of saying "stuff" happens. What tells the story is how someone stands behind a product after the poop hits the fan, for one customer or a bunch of customers.

So far sounds like Stihl isn't taking any chances. The electronics sounds like a "hard" problem, probably designed or built into every unit. The cylinders might be just one short section of the run or might be a low but unacceptable percentage of cylinders all through the run. Doesn't really matter, Stihl seems to be doing all they can.

Ford tried for years to get around flat installing the wrong radiator in every F150 SuperCrew with a tow package for several years. Met with the Ford customer service guy whose customers turned out to be the dealer not Ford vehicle buyers, the service manager, the fleet manager, and a few more folks. The source book showed I was right as we all knew. The Ford CS guy told me tough patooti, I was a peon and they were Ford motor company, they would do what they pleased. The radiator that was supposed to be in my truck wasn't readily available so the dealer upgraded to the next size bigger than that, no charge. Another year or two later Ford admitted to things and tried every way possible to sucker the customers into Ford not having to actually make it right. Sent me a hundred dollar check I wasn't foolish enough to cash after my dealer had addressed the problem fairly. I did strongly consider framing it and hanging it on the wall just in case I ever met the Ford CS guy again!

Looking at Stihl's actions and Ford's, my hat is off to Stihl!

Hu


----------



## zogger

Lark-o said:


> Lol
> So I'm not the only one that brandishes a German English language at times?



Had to learn sumthin from all those TV shows and war movies...

my fav, sgt schultz 

I ZEE NUTHINGZ!!!!!


----------



## Hinerman

Found this on another forum (in UK posted about a week ago). The member indicated he asked Stihl (by email) about the 661 recall. Here is the response he received:

Thank you for your enquiry below, I apologise for the delay in my response.
The MS661 C Chainsaw was recently introduced to the GB Market, which was developed and produced with the utmost care. Despite this care, in-house quality tests have revealed few examples of malfunctioning engines in our first production run and very small number of cases have occurred in actual use. These problems specifically relate to the satisfactory performance of the engine. I must stress that it is not a recall.
STIHL is synonymous with quality and the complete satisfaction of our customers will always be our top priority. It is with this in mind we have stopped producing this model at this time.
If your machines have been running without issue, there should not be a problem with your MS661’s in use. However should you have encountered running problems from the outset, please refer to your local Dealer who will assess the item and seek our advice.
I trust this clarifies your enquiry, however should you have any further concerns you wish to discuss please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind regards,
Claire Wells
Customer Relations Advisor


----------



## LowVolt

Stories and rumors are flying around like crazy. The story I am getting from my dealer is yes there was a recall and now the saw will not be released until this time next year.


----------



## Mastermind

I have videos uploading.....


----------



## Hinerman

Mastermind said:


> I have videos uploading.....


 
What are your thoughts? On the saw of course...


----------



## Mastermind

Hinerman said:


> What are your thoughts? On the saw of course...



It's heavy. 

Damn shame they didn't find a way to make it 026 light, and 395XP powerful.


----------



## zogger

Jimmy in NC said:


> Cold air makes more power....



And a hot fire in the winter in the stove in the living room makes for more nookie....

So every boy needs a powerful saw to cut mo' wood!


----------



## Mastermind

Mastermind said:


> I have videos uploading.....




I'm sitting on my ass waiting for these videos to upload. It feels pretty good.


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> It's heavy.
> 
> Damn shame they didn't find a way to make it 026 light, and *395XP powerful.*



Huuummmmmm......


Those 395s do run good....


----------



## porsche965

Great work Randy, well worth the wait.


----------



## Mastermind

Jon was balancing atop another log here......couldn't really _drive_ the saw properly. 

It seems far more powerful than a stock 660.......


----------



## mdavlee

You could of at least used a sharp chain.


Looks strong for a new saw. I'm sure it will get better once broken in. If you've still got it there when I get home I'm making a trip down there. opcorn:


----------



## Mastermind

That is a 28" bar on there Mike......


----------



## Mastermind

Mastermind said:


> That is a 28" bar on there Mike......



In wild cherry.....

Just sayin.


----------



## mdavlee

Mastermind said:


> In wild cherry.....
> 
> Just sayin.



I know. I just wanted to give you a hard time. How's the oiler putting out? I'm thinking that could be a great milling saw if the oiler is as good as a 395 oiler and good av.


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> In wild cherry.....
> 
> Just sayin.


Probably frozen wild cherry too. Cold ass day down here today....... The mud never did thaw out.


----------



## Mastermind

mdavlee said:


> I know. I just wanted to give you a hard time. How's the oiler putting out? I'm thinking that could be a great milling saw if the oiler is as good as a 395 oiler and good av.



It slings oil off like boogers. 



komatsuvarna said:


> Probably frozen wild cherry too. Cold ass day down here today....... The mud never did thaw out.



Cold today......yep.

Holds good rpm huh?


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> It slings oil off like boogers.
> 
> 
> 
> Cold today......yep.
> 
> Holds good rpm huh?



Yes it does!

Have you took a peak inside at the cylinder yet?


----------



## LowVolt

Mastermind said:


> It's heavy.
> 
> Damn shame they didn't find a way to make it 026 light, and 395XP powerful.



How heavy? Specs anyone?


----------



## crane

sure seemed consistent. There was a slight hicup in the second cut, but the saw recovered nicely IMO


----------



## mdavlee

Mastermind said:


> It slings oil off like boogers.
> 
> 
> 
> Cold today......yep.
> 
> Holds good rpm huh?



That's good. Maybe they'll have them sorted out before I get over wanting one like husky/jonsered did with the 562. They took too long and I got over the urge to get one.


----------



## Mastermind




----------



## Mastermind

LowVolt said:


> How heavy? Specs anyone?



I'll weigh it Rory.....


----------



## VINIFIREWOOD

LowVolt said:


> How heavy? Specs anyone?



in KG but here ya go 
Link http://www.stihl.co.uk/STIHL-Produc...n-saws-for-forestry/22284-130/MS-661-C-M.aspx


----------



## VINIFIREWOOD

661 weighs 7.4 KG = 16.3142lbs 
660 weighs 7.5 kg = 16.5347lbs
per Stihl website and google conversion


----------



## Mastermind

komatsuvarna said:


> Yes it does!
> 
> Have you took a peak inside at the cylinder yet?



Probably do it over the weekend so I don't feel like I'm sticking it in front of other guys saws.


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> Probably do it over the weekend so I don't feel like I'm sticking it in front of other guys saws.



Gotchya!
I was just curious if it was quad ported and how different the cylinder and saw was from the 066-660s.


----------



## Mastermind

It looks a lot like the 461....


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> It looks a lot like the 461....


Kinda what I had figured.....
I look forward to nude pictures of the 661 none the less .


----------



## redbull660

Until the weekend!...ugh. The wait is going to kill me!


----------



## HuskStihl

What does it feel like? Be nice to combine husky smooth with Stihl "tight". The 394 you built me has gone on walkabout, but it was turning into quite the nasty fat ***** before it left. Thx


----------



## windthrown

Here is the MS661 US media product information file from Stihl:

http://www.stihl.com/p/media/download/en-com/ms661-brochure-gb.pdf


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Lark-o said:


> Wanna trade? It's a dam heat wave here today... High of 17! This is the warmest it's been in 2 weeks.


supposed to get into the 70s next week...brrrr


----------



## albert

I might of missed it, what rim size is on it? Looks ballsy.


----------



## Mastermind

7 pin


----------



## tree monkey

what a guy, 7 pages of nothing


----------



## Trx250r180

is it more or less a big 441 with a 461 type jug ?


----------



## morewood

Ok, which autotune Husky did you dub the sound from? We need to find you a real piece of hardwood, 2' or so in diameter. The problem is, everything like that is turned into firewood around here. That saw sounds awesome, I have faith in you squeezing some more out of it Randy.

Shea


----------



## windthrown

If you want to know about problems at Stihl, just ask your local Husky dealer!

Word at mine is that... "there are 661 plating issues on the cylinders and there are SW problems with the computers. Some stall out when being run, others flat out die, and some are low on power. So, you wanna buy another 395?" No, I like the 576 better... and I may want a 365 x-torq or two... gimme a price on them...

Supposedly in the UK there is no official recall, but they have stopped selling the 661s until the 661s are 'retested'. Several arbor guys there say they stall out on them, especially if left to idle, and then they are a PITA to restart. Others report that they are not running at full power. Bing-translating and reading the German site, they report a full German recall, and 660s being loaned out as a stop-gap to people that bought the 661. They report problems there with plating on the cylinder and pistons, and with no spark. One guy that popped the jug off a 661 in Germany said that the cylinder of a 661 is like Swiss cheese, and has hardly any surface area with all the porting going on in there. The problems seem to be with a few saws, and not all of them. The biggest problems seem to be early on with DOA ignitions. The 661 saws are all made in Germany, so they are pulling the plug on them all worldwide. They (Stihl) are gathering up all the 'defective' saws and is looking at them now. Or so it would appear.

One thing that a guy pointed out in Germany that ran several pre-release 661s is that they were all one-off built saws, and not mass produced like the ones that are hitting the shelves now. So it may well be production line issues, or the way that they are being assembled at the factory. It may also be computer module batch issues. Hard to say w/o specific information about the production of the saws and the parts being used in them. Also to note: In Germany they give each other even more shyte than we do here on this forum!


----------



## Mastermind

tree monkey said:


> what a guy, 7 pages of nothing



I know right? I wanted to give up on the thread.....



Trx250r180 said:


> is it more or less a big 441 with a 461 type jug ?



I'll tear it down Saturday Brian. Maybe I can get my computer issue fixed by then too. 



morewood said:


> Ok, which autotune Husky did you dub the sound from? We need to find you a real piece of hardwood, 2' or so in diameter. The problem is, everything like that is turned into firewood around here. That saw sounds awesome, I have faith in you squeezing some more out of it Randy.
> 
> Shea



You do realize that is a 28" bar on there......right?


----------



## Trx250r180

Randy ,Do you have a 461 there to do comparisons with ? or a 660 ? that may show if this new saw has any more ,the same ,or less than for power ,i remember when you side by sided the 461 and 660 ,with 28 inch bar the 461 had a slight faster time with that sized bar in same wood ,but not by much ,it may help the thread ,it might not ,i don't know ,i'm just a junkman thinking out loud ,carry on


----------



## redbull660

yeah like a stock 660 vs stock 661


----------



## Mastermind

Trx250r180 said:


> Randy ,Do you have a 461 there to do comparisons with ? or a 660 ? that may show if this new saw has any more ,the same ,or less than for power ,i remember when you side by sided the 461 and 660 ,with 28 inch bar the 461 had a slight faster time with that sized bar in same wood ,but not by much ,it may help the thread ,it might not ,i don't know ,i'm just a junkman thinking out loud ,carry on



I don't have a stock 660. I do have a ported 461 sitting here though. 

After I really get started, should I start another thread, and delete this one?


----------



## redbull660

someone overnight him a stock 660! lol


----------



## Mastermind

I've got a stock 441.....and a 372......and.....


----------



## JakeG

I'd post a link to a new build thread and lock this one . Maybe edit the first post with the new link too? Just yappin' out loud!


----------



## Tnshaker

I have a stock 461 you could use for comparison if that helps randy.


----------



## DexterDay

Stock 441 against stock 661


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> I don't have a stock 660. I do have a ported 461 sitting here though.
> 
> After I really get started, should I start another thread, and delete this one?



Good question ,lot of good responses in this one ,but if the build starts 20 pages in ,many may be missing out on the technical stuff ,maybe the mods can rename this one for you ,then you can keep the mastermind meets the 661 for the complete build with less filler in between ?
I am seeing people from other countries chiming in ,i am sure that stihl watches this forum also ,so i am sure there is a lot of interest in this build besides the regulars that chime in


----------



## Mastermind

We'll call the next installment, Mastermind Modifies The MS661


----------



## windthrown

Mastermind said:


> I don't have a stock 660. I do have a ported 461 sitting here though.
> 
> After I really get started, should I start another thread, and delete this one?


 
Start another one and rename this one, "The 661 recall thread". The Swedes are probably starting on a film to run in their shops with a dead 661 vs. a screaming 395xp.

The stock 661 videos are interesting for reference. And there will likely be more information on the 661 recall as things evolve at Stihl in the Fatherland.


----------



## bryanr2

Mastermind said:


> We'll call the next installment, Mastermind *Modifies* The MS661



That's gonna complicate things when Im searching for "intellligent" build threads. This thread should be named "Mastermind unpacks the MS661CM". Save the "Meets" for the real thang. It's been "Meets" for as long as I can remember.


----------



## Stihlman441

Trx250r180 said:


> Randy ,Do you have a 461 there to do comparisons with ? or a 660 ? that may show if this new saw has any more ,the same ,or less than for power ,i remember when you side by sided the 461 and 660 ,with 28 inch bar the 461 had a slight faster time with that sized bar in same wood ,but not by much ,it may help the thread ,it might not ,i don't know ,i'm just a junkman thinking out loud ,carry on


 
This is the big questsoin,at what point in bar lenght will the ported 661C pull away from a ported 461.
My ported 461 will kill a stock 660 with a 28'' bar.
So what im saying is is it worth getting a ported 661,but i assume with a 36'' bar then things change ?.


----------



## 7sleeper

Stihlman441 said:


> This is the big questsoin,at what point in bar lenght will the ported 661C pull away from a ported 461.
> My ported 461 will kill a stock 660 with a 28'' bar.
> So what im saying is is it worth getting a ported 661,but i assume with a 36'' bar then things change ?.


It's been a similar situation for all prior top saw comparisons. The top of the line only shine in exceptional conditions.

7


----------



## mdavlee

I have a stock 660 but the cylinder is at your place and the rest of the saw is at my house in a bucket. Had I known you could use it I would have sent the whole saw complete. If you want it I can probably get it sent down there for you but Jon would have to pitot back together.


----------



## Mastermind

I can tell you with absolute certainty that a 660 wants no part of this saw.


----------



## redbull660

noooooooooooooo


----------



## Mastermind

It's a quad ported, m-tronic badass.....


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> It's a quad ported, m-tronic badass.....




So what are you really trying to say ?


----------



## shootingarts

Trx250r180 said:


> Good question ,lot of good responses in this one ,but if the build starts 20 pages in ,many may be missing out on the technical stuff ,maybe the mods can rename this one for you ,then you can keep the mastermind meets the 661 for the complete build with less filler in between ?
> I am seeing people from other countries chiming in ,i am sure that stihl watches this forum also ,so i am sure there is a lot of interest in this build besides the regulars that chime in



Could be that Stihl watches the mod guys far closer than anyone realizes. The big automakers did in the dim distant past and I remember going to a marketing meeting when my dad and I were franchisees of Mobil Oil. They started talking about national marketing and such but then talked a bit about highly successful local marketing campaigns. Not uncommon now but my dad was holding drawings for all the customers to give away turkeys for Thanksgiving and expanded to Christmas in the late sixties/early seventies. We used a locally painted custom sign to promote it so it was quite a surprise to see our sign on the screen, Mobil was promoting dad's concept nationwide! Didn't realize that the big boys even knew about it or had snuck a picture of the sign. Those few turkeys made us thousands though. When the companies notice something works really well they may borrow a bit. Wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that factory tech's had been inside some of the modded saws to see if there is anything they can use and still keep the regulators happy.

Hu


----------



## Mastermind

They better keep their filthy paws off my motors.


----------



## Tnshaker

Son how does it compare to the swedes? Namely the 390 and 395?


----------



## Buffhunter

Tnshaker said:


> Son how does it compare to the swedes? Namely the 390 and 395?




That's what I wanna know


----------



## Mastermind

Now you are asking the right question.....

I have a well worn stock 390XP sitting right here....

I also have a woods ported 395XP.....


----------



## Tnshaker

So...........spill the beans


----------



## 7sleeper

Mastermind said:


> They better keep their filthy paws off my motors.


Never mess with a monkey....



7


----------



## morewood

You do realize that is a 28" bar on there......right?

yep, I read. Up here wild cherry is cut to get to the real wood. Just thinking I want to see the saws challenged. Those saws aren't challenged by much though.




Mastermind said:


> Now you are asking the right question.....
> 
> I have a well worn stock 390XP sitting right here....
> 
> I also have a woods ported 395XP.....


 
DO IT!! I love comparisons and then watching the brand loyalists rush in for blood.

Shea


----------



## Mastermind

Trx250r180 said:


> So what are you really trying to say ?



That until Stihl began building 4 port motors they were behind the competition.....


----------



## Mastermind

morewood said:


> DO IT!! I love comparisons and then watching the brand loyalists rush in for blood.
> 
> Shea



Trying to figure out the wood right now. We may blow a 'roid getting something in the truck.


----------



## Trx250r180

this was a pretty cool thread ,3 brands and all had good points to them 

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/40cc-shoot-out.233295/


----------



## morewood

Mastermind said:


> Trying to figure out the wood right now. We may blow a 'roid getting something in the truck.


 

I may have a piece or two up on the mountain, but it would be Christmas break before you got it. I think it's Oak.......but Locust would be the best. I'll talk to Frank, he may have something at his mill.

Shea

PS-I use a tractor to pick up that kind of stuff, no need having a blowout.


----------



## redbull660

btw - who ever sent this 661 to Randy. T H A N K Y O U !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jwill

Wonder if the 661 is as strong as a good, non-decomp 066?


----------



## Mastermind

I just lined up a tractor for early in the morning. We'll get a piece cut and ready to pull out today, then go after while it's froze in the am. 



jwill said:


> Wonder if the 661 is as strong as a good, non-decomp 066?



Without a doubt, it's stronger.


----------



## wap13

Tnshaker said:


> Son how does it compare to the swedes? Namely the 390 and 395?



X's 2

I had decided a 390 was for me. But now.... I may have to wait and see what the 661 can do. I sure like the m tronic on my 261


----------



## Trx250r180

did the now wrap handle come with an ho oiler on this model ? is the screw shaped like the letter T like the older saws ?


----------



## Mastermind

When I tear her down tomorrow, I'll start a new thread and link to it in this thread. In that thread, we'll take good detailed pics, and try to get answers to all these questions. 

I just got off the phone with a Stihl dealer that tried to order these saws. He said his rep told him that they are just pushing back the release date. No details.


----------



## Gologit

Mastermind said:


> Trying to figure out the wood right now. We may blow a 'roid getting something in the truck.



Randy, you have to quit running those tiny bars. Put a 42" bar on that saw and really make it work. If you'll pay the shipping I have some very dry 42 foot doug fir logs that average 40 inches on the butt that I'll let you have at a reasonable price.


----------



## Mastermind

Gologit said:


> Randy, you have to quit running those tiny bars. Put a 42" bar on that saw and really make it work. If you'll pay the shipping I have some very dry 42 foot doug fir logs that average 40 inches on the butt that I'll let you have at a reasonable price.



I feel what you are saying big guy. We never see stuff like that here. Sometimes I kill a big yard tree that measures 4' so so, but they're normally full of nails.


----------



## morewood

Mastermind said:


> I just lined up a tractor for early in the morning. We'll get a piece cut and ready to pull out today, then go after while it's froze in the am.


 
Good luck with that, rain in the morning from what I see.



Gologit said:


> Randy, you have to quit running those tiny bars. Put a 42" bar on that saw and really make it work. If you'll pay the shipping I have some very dry 42 foot doug fir logs that average 40 inches on the butt that I'll let you have at a reasonable price.


 
That is what I think these saws were made to cut......just here in these mountains most of those trees left around the turn of the century with the railway.

Shea

PS-If I get a chance tonight I will post a pic of a tree we cut to saw length with a 660 this summer. 54" at the butt.....Oak!!


----------



## Mastermind

Yep, 100% chance of rain. 

****.


----------



## morewood




----------



## opinion

Mastermind said:


> Yep, 100% chance of rain.
> 
> ****.


No umbrellas?


----------



## Mastermind

It's just that it's a sloppy mess, and under the hill where I was hoping to get a log.


----------



## tree monkey

10 pages, still nothing


----------



## Buffhunter

DAMN YOU RANDY FOR DOING THESE THREADS....... I JUST PUT AN ORDER IN FOR A 661C-M AS SOON AS THEY START SHIPPING THEM AGAIN...... SO NOW I HAVE TO SELL A SAW I LIKE.... DAMN YOU MASTERMONKEYMIND DAMN YOU


----------



## windthrown

Mastermind said:


> That until Stihl began building 4 port motors they were behind the competition.....


 
Enter the 361...


----------



## Mastermind

windthrown said:


> Enter the 361...



Three of them on the bench right now.

I love those saws.


----------



## Mastermind

Buffhunter said:


> DAMN YOU RANDY FOR DOING THESE THREADS....... I JUST PUT AN ORDER IN FOR A 661C-M AS SOON AS THEY START SHIPPING THEM AGAIN...... SO NOW I HAVE TO SELL A SAW I LIKE.... DAMN YOU MASTERMONKEYMIND DAMN YOU



I love you mang.


----------



## Mastermind

tree monkey said:


> 10 pages, still nothing



Sorry Scott.......you know I'm a slacker.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

jwill said:


> Wonder if the 661 is as strong as a good, non-decomp 066?


I wonder if the 661 P&C would fit on an earlier 660/066. I assume other parts would need to go with them...


----------



## Duane(Pa)

I've been thinking, we are a bunch of sick "slackers" or worse... Must be all the fumes?


----------



## Mastermind




----------



## Trx250r180

must have had some dirty bark ?


----------



## gr8mac

Happens every time you drag a log. Whats up with that!


----------



## barneyrb

Mastermind said:


> They better keep their filthy paws off my motors.


Internal combustion is an engine and electrical is a motor...........


----------



## Mastermind

I made some videos.......can't get the damn things uploaded....


----------



## windthrown

barneyrb said:


> Internal combustion is an engine and electrical is a motor...........


 
Says who? I got a motor in my PU truck. And a motor in all my saws.... and even one in my head!


----------



## windthrown

gr8mac said:


> Happens every time you drag a log. Whats up with that!


 
As for that log... where is the massive pile of cookies that you turn those logs into? Or did you build that OWB specially made to burn cookies?


----------



## Mastermind

Mastermind said:


> I made some videos.......can't get the damn things uploaded....



I reset Firefox. Seems to be better......video is uploading. 



windthrown said:


> As for that log... where is the massive pile of cookies that you turn those logs into? Or did you build that OWB specially made to burn cookies?



We burn them in the woodstove when the weather ain't too cold. I also let the grandkids burn them and roast hotdogs and make smores.


----------



## windthrown

Mastermind said:


> I made some videos.......can't get the damn things uploaded....


 
So if you hit the Upload a File button, it does not work? Or are you using the Media button?


----------



## Mastermind




----------



## Mastermind

I'll get the 390XP video when I get home........I'm going to my Friday night meeting.

Laterz


----------



## 7sleeper

Mastermind said:


> I'll get the 390XP video when I get home........I'm going to my Friday night meeting.
> 
> Laterz


Bingo night?

7


----------



## Fire8

I have a 650 that will do that, you can do better then that 
hahahahaha


----------



## MuskokaSplitter

Stock the 661 sounds good! Kinda like the new styling


----------



## sgrizz

opcorn:Looking and sounding good for a stock saw randy. Thanks for taking the time to show us and to the person who sent you this saw my hats off to you also.


----------



## windthrown

Danm, that is chainsaw porno...

Does Stihl give you a commission for ads like this?


----------



## Saw Dr.

I have a last edition 066 (same as 660) that has never been apart & is stock. Nice low hour saw. You want me to send it over for testing purposes?


----------



## gr8mac

Oh My!!!!! I want one!


----------



## 056 kid

HuskStihl said:


> What does it feel like? Be nice to combine husky smooth with Stihl "tight". The 394 you built me has gone on walkabout, but it was turning into quite the nasty fat ***** before it left. Thx



Hey thanks for that! I can't tell a difference in weight between 394 & 660 wearing 32" bars. One thing I did notice is what seems to be a rather small gas tank for a saw that size.


----------



## treesmith

Can't wait! 

Sent from my GT-I9210T


----------



## Mastermind

Saw Dr. said:


> I have a last edition 066 (same as 660) that has never been apart & is stock. Nice low hour saw. You want me to send it over for testing purposes?



I really don't think it's needed Tim. The 390XP had it's lunch money taken by this saw.....


----------



## Mastermind

Video is uploading.......

I'm using a crappy laptop that is uber slow. It's working......but not very fast.


----------



## Trx250r180

was that cut 30 seconds ? is that the baseline to try to improve on ?


----------



## pro94lt

I hope this stihl takes the lunch money but until It happens...


----------



## bryanr2

Mastermind said:


> I really don't think it's needed Tim. The 390XP had it's lunch money taken by this saw.....




Is that the "well worn stock 390" two pages back? Supposedly 390s aren't impressive in stock form, they really take to porting though. 91.6cc vs 88cc. I know the 2 I own- 2188 and 395 that you ported are MMMMMMONNNNNNNNNSTERS!


----------



## Mastermind

Trx250r180 said:


> was that cut 30 seconds ? is that the baseline to try to improve on ?



It won't play on this laptop. Someone time it please..... 



pro94lt said:


> I hope this stihl takes the lunch money but until It happens...



I have a strong running 395XP for it to take on when the port work is done. I've yet to be able to build a 660/066 that could hang with my 395s in this size wood. Maybe the 661 will be able to.


----------



## Mastermind

bryanr2 said:


> Is that the "well worn stock 390" two pages back? Supposedly 390s aren't impressive in stock form, they really take to porting though. 91.6cc vs 88cc. I know the 2 I own- 2188 and 395 that you ported are MMMMMMONNNNNNNNNSTERS!



Yes sir.....that's the saw. 

I just traded for it......had never started it till today.


----------



## Mastermind

The video has 8 more minutes......


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> It won't play on this laptop. Someone time it please.....
> 
> 
> 
> I have a strong running 395XP for it to take on when the port work is done. I've yet to be able to build a 660/066 that could hang with my 395s in this size wood. Maybe the 661 will be able to.




didn't you used to say something similar about the 372 xpw till the 461 got finished ?


----------



## redbull660

29.6 sec is what I got on that first baseline cut.


----------



## komatsuvarna

8 more minutes

Noahs Ark is faster than that......


----------



## Hinerman

Mastermind said:


> Someone time it please.....



I got 29.55 & 29.57


----------



## Mastermind




----------



## Mastermind

komatsuvarna said:


> 8 more minutes
> 
> Noahs Ark is faster than that......



Have you been talking to the Barger?


----------



## Hinerman

Stock 661-29.55 seconds

Stock 390-39.17 seconds. 25% faster. Arse whooping if you ask me.


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> Have you been talking to the Barger?



.....Maybe .


----------



## komatsuvarna

That 390 looked good till it got all the way in the wood lol


----------



## Mastermind

komatsuvarna said:


> .....Maybe .



I told him, I'm cool if he wants to send me a Christmas present......


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Fire8 said:


> I have a 650 that will do that, you can do better then that
> hahahahaha


saw has a 7t sprocket 
put the 8t on that thing like the rest of us  my 066 came stock with the 8t


----------



## Mastermind

If it ain't raining like a *****, I'll do some more timed cuts tomorrow. I want to do the muffler with a couple different outlets, see what really helps.

If it's pouring, I won't move forward till I can test what's been done.


----------



## redbull660

Redbull660 says some prayers to the anti rain gods.


----------



## chadihman

That 661 rocks stock. No surprise to me that the 661 opened a can of whoop azz on that 390. Stihl would have never released it unless it squashed a 390. The 461 didn't show much of a gain from a MM on my dyno tests like the 460 does. The 660's do quite a bit better with a good MM wander if the 661 will mirror the 461


----------



## pro94lt

Boys that 390 look like Dan Marino taking the field Sunday. .. just a little worn


----------



## chadihman

Randy I want my dyno in your shop really bad. You can have the dyno if you get me a 661 and port it for me.


----------



## porsche965

chadihman said:


> Randy I want my dyno in your shop really bad. You can have the dyno if you get me a 661 and port it for me.



Try sleeping after that proposal lol.

I sure hope Stihl don't bring the 661s back "fixed" and they have less power. Remember the Dolmar 7900/7910 EPA crap? The 7910 sure is dialed down from the 7900. Now this is a different issue with the coil and cylinder plating and not EPA related but boy would that suck.


----------



## windthrown

What is a dyno worth? And does Randy want one? I suppose it would be better than timed cuts and video saw runs.


----------



## chadihman

I would still want to see video of Randys saws in the dyno if he gets it someday.


----------



## mdavlee

chadihman said:


> I would still want to see video of Randys saws in the dyno if he gets it someday.




Well it sure is stronger than a 390. Makes me want one a little more. Might not need an 088/880 to mill with a 42" bar.


----------



## Mastermind

chadihman said:


> Randy I want my dyno in your shop really bad. You can have the dyno if you get me a 661 and port it for me.



Can't really afford that..... 



porsche965 said:


> Try sleeping after that proposal lol.
> 
> I sure hope Stihl don't bring the 661s back "fixed" and they have less power. Remember the Dolmar 7900/7910 EPA crap? The 7910 sure is dialed down from the 7900. Now this is a different issue with the coil and cylinder plating and not EPA related but boy would that suck.



The 7910 has the same port sizes and timing numbers as the 7900.......they just need a different muffler.


----------



## Mastermind

redbull660 said:


> Randy, how would you compare the 661 AV feel vs the 660 ?




It's got spring AV.......seems very smooth. I've just put about one tank thru it though.


----------



## splitpost

Very cool guys,does anyone know what the recall is for?????

Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bryanr2

Im gonna need that 395 to spank this 661 or I'll be spending the first quarter of the new year on the couch.


----------



## bryanr2

I mean SPANK it decisively.


----------



## stihl for life

Mastermind said:


>




haha thats my old 390 did its time logging but was always a good runner


----------



## HuskStihl

056 kid said:


> Hey thanks for that! I can't tell a difference in weight between 394 & 660 wearing 32" bars. One thing I did notice is what seems to be a rather small gas tank for a saw that size.


Hope it serves you well. The tank holes about a quart, but I have a feeling ol Randy didn't port it with fuel economy in mind. It'll eat a tank in 5-6 big cuts. Hope it doesn't eat u'r profits


----------



## Mastermind

bryanr2 said:


> Im gonna need that 395 to spank this 661 or I'll be spending the first quarter of the new year on the couch.



I tried to talk you into waiting......but noooooooo. 



stihl for life said:


> haha thats my old 390 did its time logging but was always a good runner



Yep, that's it.


----------



## DexterDay

Mastermind said:


> I tried to talk you into waiting......but noooooooo.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, that's it.



I wish I knew he wanted a 661? Steven, you are a good man. I would hope that the 395 spanks that 661 (should )


----------



## Mastermind

DexterDay said:


> I wish I knew he wanted a 661? Steven, you are a good man. I would hope that the 395 spanks that 661 (should )




He'll have to have both......you'll see.


----------



## bryanr2

Mastermind said:


> I tried to talk you into waiting......but noooooooo.
> chain
> 
> 
> Yep, that's it.




I'm a Loyalist. Im loyal to a fault. I pick a brand- I stick to that brand. I pick a builder- I stick with that builder. There were bigger factors that went into purchasing the 395 from Dex than just the saw as I have stated here for public record. Besides those considerations I stole that 395 at $900 shipped- it doesn't have a scratch on it, it came with a brand new Sugi Bar and chain, it's already ported. (Everything in the Universe aligned on that deal). Besides, a 661 probably cost $1300 +$250 to port. I got the 395 at $900, there is no wait on the bench, and I have money left over to go towards the 540xp. And I stayed true to my brand.


----------



## Mastermind

Good man.


----------



## bryanr2

DexterDay said:


> I wish I knew he wanted a 661? Steven, you are a good man. I would hope that the 395 spanks that 661 (should )





Mastermind said:


> He'll have to have both......you'll see.



Took to long in my post I see.

Your probably right. But it'll be spring and I'll be back into my "Money Time" of year.


----------



## Mastermind

Let's see how this saw likes the mods........it might not respond well ya know.


----------



## bryanr2

Stihl doesn't usually go backwards on new releases. If they are marketing the 661 as the replacement of the 660 (and not just another model in the lineup) then we have every reason to believe they are onto something with it. 
260<261, 261<261cm, 441<441cm, 460<461, 660?661. The only one they went backwards on is the 361>362. I'd say it will respond very well- well enough to triumph over the 660. The only question is can it hang with a 395xp. 395xp has owned the top spot in the 90+cc bracket for a long time.


----------



## Stihl working hard

Mastermind said:


> We'll call the next installment, Mastermind Modifies The MS661


Randy if the thread on working the 661 is half as good as the one you did working that 461 for the fund raiser for tbone that would have to be one of the best threads I have seen on working a saw I can't wait for pictures you really are the master and your work is very well respected over here in Ozz


----------



## 7sleeper

bryanr2 said:


> Stihl doesn't usually go backwards on new releases. If they are marketing the 661 as the replacement of the 660 (and not just another model in the lineup) then we have every reason to believe they are onto something with it.
> 260<261, 261<261cm, 441<441cm, 460<461, 660?661. The only one they went backwards on is the 361>362. I'd say it will respond very well- well enough to triumph over the 660. The only question is can it hang with a 395xp. 395xp has owned the top spot in the 90+cc bracket for a long time.


Don't agree on the 361-362 being less saw. The new version with M Tronic is a stronger 362. Not quite sure how it stands against the 361 but it is stronger than the "old" 362.

7


----------



## XSKIER

7sleeper said:


> Don't agree on the 361-362 being less saw. The new version with M Tronic is a stronger 362. Not quite sure how it stands against the 361 but it is stronger than the "old" 362.
> 
> 7



You'll be the only guy to comment on the MS 362 C-M's strength. Go ahead and share your comparo vids.


----------



## mdavlee

Mastermind said:


> Let's see how this saw likes the mods........it might not respond well ya know.



Heck it doesn't have to do much to be better than the husky competition. It's already stronger than a 390 by a big margin and a 660 and 390 are usually pretty even in cut speed stock. It looks like there might be another win for stihl. That puts them ahead in every category except 60cc in my book.


----------



## Ironworker

bryanr2 said:


> I'm a Loyalist. Im loyal to a fault. I pick a brand- I stick to that brand. I pick a builder- I stick with that builder. There were bigger factors that went into purchasing the 395 from Dex than just the saw as I have stated here for public record. Besides those considerations I stole that 395 at $900 shipped- it doesn't have a scratch on it, it came with a brand new Sugi Bar and chain, it's already ported. (Everything in the Universe aligned on that deal). Besides, a 661 probably cost $1300 +$250 to port. I got the 395 at $900, there is no wait on the bench, and I have money left over to go towards the 540xp. And I stayed true to my brand.


That was a steal at that price, can't wait to see it up against the 661.


----------



## moody

mdavlee said:


> Heck it doesn't have to do much to be better than the husky competition. It's already stronger than a 390 by a big margin and a 660 and 390 are usually pretty even in cut speed stock. It looks like there might be another win for stihl. That puts them ahead in every category except 60cc in my book.



550 out of the box is a bit stronger than the 261. The 441 is like packing a Volkswagen. And well the 880 when speed matters isn't setting any world records  

It'd be cool to see Stihl take the top of the mountain. Especially with new technology. The 661cm is looking great so far. But there will be a point when the 372 is replaced and I think by that happens more companies will be trying this technology. Performance won't be the difference so much as weight and handling. It might be a while before we see another AT or M-Tronic saw release so I'm curious to see how things shake out here.


----------



## mdavlee

moody said:


> 550 out of the box is a bit stronger than the 261. The 441 is like packing a Volkswagen. And well the 880 when speed matters isn't setting any world records
> 
> It'd be cool to see Stihl take the top of the mountain. Especially with new technology. The 661cm is looking great so far. But there will be a point when the 372 is replaced and I think by that happens more companies will be trying this technology. Performance won't be the difference so much as weight and handling. It might be a while before we see another AT or M-Tronic saw release so I'm curious to see how things shake out here.



I've not ran a 550 but I really like a 261 for a baby saw. The 461 is the best 70cc saw right now. I wish husky would make the rear handles more round on their saws. That alone is almost enough for me not to run them anymore. That makes my hands hurt more than the rubber av stihls use. I wish I had time to go see randy and see how the 661 runs myself.


----------



## chadihman

Stihl had been lagging behind for years in the power section. Stihl has always had a pretty reliable pro saw lineup. It's about time they start making saws with some power to stand with the competition.

261 cm A+........362 cm A+? 441 cm A+...... 461 A+.......661 cm looking really good far. I'm liking the looks of the new Stihl lineup.


----------



## HuskStihl

The 661 looks amazing. 660 to 390 is pretty fair, but gonna have to wait for the 590 AT for a Stihl-husky tussle in the 90cc class


----------



## JakeG

I didn't realize stock 390's were such slugs. Almost like the chain wasn't right or not getting enough oil. Though I'm sure it was cause mastermoobs would have noticed.


----------



## wap13

I read the hole thread but could have missed it.

How does the 661 compare to the 390 and 395 in weight/feel? Seems the 660 was right in between the 2, does the 661 still fit there? Or has it grown to be more like the 395?


----------



## LowVolt

moody said:


> It'd be cool to see Stihl take the top of the mountain. Especially with new technology.


 
Speaking in general terms of "technology" a lot of companies focus on releasing the "new technology" before they actually perfect the "technology." Yes you were the first to bring out this or that feature but how well did it initially work? So to me being first with new and improved features is not a big deal at all.


----------



## chadihman

I'm sure this 661 will have a college degree when professor Mastermind is done schooling it.


----------



## bryanr2

mdavlee said:


> Heck it doesn't have to do much to be better than the husky competition. It's already stronger than a 390 by a big margin and a 660 and 390 are usually pretty even in cut speed stock. It looks like there might be another win for stihl. That puts them ahead in every category except 60cc in my book.



390 is technically 88ccs and has no competition in the 80cc range. 661 is 91.6cc so belongs in another bracket.... a bracket shared with the 395xp at 94cc. Previous the 660 and 390 were about tied up and the census was that the 390 is a hotrod once ported. 661 has past the 390 it seems (as it should). All that's left is will it stay in the middle bracket between the two or best the 395xp? 2nd place is really 1st loser. 

The 346/2153 is king of the 50cc category. My 2153 is still the strongest 50cc saw Randy has ever built. (saying that never gets old).

The category for me that is going to be really interesting is when this 540xp hits mainstream. I am expecting it to be a game changer. Im spending hard earned money to find out for myself. Sent the Dealer I promised the sale to over a year ago, a pm last night so hopefully we can get that ball rolling.


----------



## Mastermind

chadihman said:


> I'm sure this 661 will have a college degree when professor Mastermind is done schooling it.



You guys really give me too much credit. I'm not doing anything special to any of these saws. I'm just careful not to over do them.


----------



## moody

LowVolt said:


> Speaking in general terms of "technology" a lot of companies focus on releasing the "new technology" before they actually perfect the "technology." Yes you were the first to bring out this or that feature but how well did it initially work? So to me being first with new and improved features is not a big deal at all.



They weren't the first and they didnt design it. They designed the saw around the M-tronic and that's helped them slip in nice features such as spring av, captive bar nuts, new filtration system and still manage to keep the Stihl quality. The m-tronic gave Stihl a chance to change without the fear of the competition walking past them if there was a mishap.


----------



## XSKIER

chadihman said:


> Stihl had been lagging behind for years in the power section. Stihl has always had a pretty reliable pro saw lineup. It's about time they start making saws with some power to stand with the competition.
> 
> 261 cm A+........362 cm A+? 441 cm A+...... 461 A+.......661 cm looking really good far. I'm liking the looks of the new Stihl lineup.



I really like the idea that the MS 362 C-M gets an A+? rating even thoigh no one has posted anything about it. 

Come on Chad, you work at a stihl dealer. Show us the goods already!


----------



## Trx250r180

i don't see no hopped up 461 vid in that log yet


----------



## Mastermind

Trx250r180 said:


> i don't see no hopped up 461 vid in that log yet



You will. 

It's pissing down rain here today. To be able to do a nice job on the compro, it will have to wait for better weather.


----------



## Saw Dr.

splitpost said:


> Very cool guys,does anyone know what the recall is for?????
> 
> Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2



I sent an email directly to the tech department in VA Beach asking about this. They said that Germany was doing some durability testing on 661s and found something out of spec on the cylinders that could lead to engine failure. Apparently it is a mold issue. They are aware that this model has been long anticipated, and have decided to put any further sales on hold until they get things sorted. There is not an official recall, and I am told the likelihood of failure on in-service units is pretty low. I'm sure they will be extra generous if any issues arise. They did mention that the warranty on the specific saw in this thread is very unlikely be honored......


----------



## Mastermind

Saw Dr. said:


> I sent an email directly to the tech department in VA Beach asking about this. They said that Germany was doing some durability testing on 661s and found something out of spec on the cylinders that could lead to engine failure. Apparently it is a mold issue. They are aware that this model has been long anticipated, and have decided to put any further sales on hold until they get things sorted. There is not an official recall, and I am told the likelihood of failure on in-service units is pretty low. I'm sure they will be extra generous if any issues arise. They did mention that the warranty on the specific saw in this thread is very unlikely be honored......



So, they are aware of the thread?


----------



## redfin

^ that's awesome!


----------



## LowVolt

moody said:


> They weren't the first and they didnt design it. They designed the saw around the M-tronic and that's helped them slip in nice features such as spring av, captive bar nuts, new filtration system and still manage to keep the Stihl quality. The m-tronic gave Stihl a chance to change without the fear of the competition walking past them if there was a mishap.



Again I was not talking about any one company specifically. Just speaking generally about new features and new technology aren't usually that great when they first hit the market.

So with the above comment, are you saying that mtronic made spring av, captive bar nuts and better filtration possible? 361? 441? 261? 362? All without mtronic and have some if not all of these features.

Seems like stihl is having a bit of a hiccup with the saw. That is not good. But they are stopping sales and trying to get back any shipped out/sold units until they pinpoint the problem. That is very good and speaks highly of the type of company they are. Unfortunately in our society your faults and blunders get the spotlight and your accomplishments and milestones get swept under the rug.


----------



## LowVolt

Mastermind said:


> So, they are aware of the thread?



Smile for the camera!

Hey Randy, do you know what today is?


----------



## Mastermind

Saturday?


----------



## moody

LowVolt said:


> So with the above comment, are you saying that mtronic made spring av, captive bar nuts and better filtration possible? 361? 441? 261? 362? All without mtronic and have some if not all of these features.
> 
> .



I know what you meant I apologize for the confusion. I'm saying that when they added the m-tronic it was a new design. It gave them a chance to upgrade other technology as well with the new design.


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> So, they are aware of the thread?




Big brother is watching your every move .........


----------



## crane

Mastermind said:


> So, they are aware of the thread?


Wow, The audience for this thread just got real interested. Better get Jon gussied up for the next test cuts.


----------



## Tnshaker

So guys....who thinks the 661 will whip a ported 395 ? Not sure it will take the big husky.....or have more, grunt than a ported 2100. I know this is speculation at this point. I live 45 minutes from randy and the rain slacked off butttttttttttt......it is a muddy mess here. So speculate away ....lol.....just for fun and all


----------



## LowVolt

Mastermind said:


> Saturday?


 
Correct, but also December 14 is........




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_Day

Happy Monkey Day Everyone!


----------



## bryanr2

Trx250r180 said:


> Big brother is watching your every move .........




They might learn something.


----------



## shootingarts

Mastermind said:


> So, they are aware of the thread?



Obviously if they weren't before they are now! 

Talking about the work you do, often knowing when to say enough is often the key. The factories are limited by both regulations and cost concerns so often there are gains to be made in their design. However at some point you can decide to throw away their design and use their components to whittle out something all new. Sometimes the results are fantastic, often they are ugly! Might work on a chainsaw but I remember factory race two-strokes from long ago with a powerband that was less than a thousand RPM. Those things got on the pipe hard and fell off it like a rock. At the time a handful of people in the world could actually use the potential that bike had. It won world championships and didn't stand a chance at local moto-crosses.

Takes a smarter man to work with a design than to just get out a grinder and start hogging metal away. I suspect I will be unable to resist the port bug sooner or later, also suspect you will be the first guy I send a saw to. Not that I don't think others on here and other places can do the job too, but you are forthright enough I know you work with the saw's design rather than trying to redesign it from the jump. Others might do the same but I can't be sure. Besides which, you are in the South! I hate the idea of sending a nice saw out the country to places like Ohio and such. Never know what can happen crossing the border.

Hu


----------



## Yukon Stihl

Mastermind said:


> So, they are aware of the thread?


Your a Star
Dateline....December 2013
Stihl tries out the internet to search for their new Head of research and development.
Following in the footsteps of popular talent shows,and modern trends, Stihl has hit the internet with all computers searching for the new star to head their research and development team.At first they were ridiculed for putting their reputation on the line looking for the unknown.
But again Stihl has shown they are a leader in their field.
After months of pouring over Utube vidios and reading thousands of threads they have found the winner.
They thought they might abandon the search when the popular chainsaw site Arboristsite was hacked.But after reviewing the information they had,and somehow their best candidate got his hands on their newest offering they decided they had all the info they needed to get the ball rolling on recruiting 
Their first order was to get all the new model saws back.So if they can hire their candidate they can re release the saw the way it should have been.
Now the second hurdle is the biggest.It turns out that with all the bright minds at Stihl,they have never thought about hiring out of species.
Even though we are in the 22nd century,Stihl is lagging behind because their lack of any policies to hire a Chimp with a gun.But all minds are tackling the problem head on and are close to coming up with a solution.
They have invested heavily in Banana futures,carbide bits,pie and stuff.Oh yea they are getting all their jugs lined up for inspection.Plus they will want their cylinders looked at as well.
Stihl is holding their card close to their chest as to who the new phenom is,but his address gives you a nice warm feeling.Stay tuned for more.opcorn:


----------



## LowVolt

shootingarts said:


> places like Ohio and such. Never know what can happen crossing the border.


 
Hey hey hey hey hey now!


----------



## shootingarts

LowVolt said:


> Hey hey hey hey hey now!




Thought that would get some attention!

Nothing wrong with Ohio, it's the border crossing I'm scart of. A friend was born in Ohio. Of course once he came down here . . . What can I tell ya? I'm American by birth, Southern by the grace of God!

Hu


----------



## shootingarts

Yukon Stihl said:


> Your a Star
> Dateline....December 2013.
> . . . . .
> They have invested heavily in Banana futures,carbide bits,pie and stuff.Oh yea they are getting all their jugs lined up for inspection.Plus they will want their cylinders looked at as well.
> Stihl is holding their card close to their chest as to who the new phenom is,but his address gives you a nice warm feeling.Stay tuned for more.opcorn:



If he doesn't get a great offer by the end of January we will all have to scream species discrimination! Of course, I can't picture him taking the job unless they declared his shop the new Stihl R&D department. Oddly enough, close family has a German company wanting him to transfer to R&D involving a move to Germany. Ain't gonna happen! He helps them here and there but leave the South???

Hu


----------



## Mastermind

The guys at Stihl would be miles ahead of anything some guy can come up with in his backyard. 

I just add a little to their design.......nothing new. If they make an engine, someone, somewhere with modify it. They are fully aware of that.


----------



## shootingarts

Mastermind said:


> The guys at Stihl would be miles ahead of anything some guy can come up with in his backyard.
> 
> I just add a little to their design.......nothing new. If they make an engine, someone, somewhere with modify it. They are fully aware of that.





Randy,

The truth is you are probably doing almost exactly what the guys in R&D would do if they had a free hand. Some of the early proto-types would be fun to see if Stihl R&D gets the free hand in the early going that they used to get many places. That kinda stuff is probably just modeled on computer now and then hits the round file.

Hu


----------



## Mastermind

Well, Jon is modifying a Stihl bar to be able to run on a Husky with the same DL count as a Stihl. Normally, when you use an adapter to mount a Stihl bar on a Husky, the DL count must be increased. This way we can use the same chain on both powerheads.....should make testing fairer.


----------



## Mastermind

I have a Modified 395XP Video uploading. 

It's fast......real fast.


----------



## Mastermind




----------



## Mastermind

Now we have a video of the MS661 with the same chain that the 395XP was running. This is a square ground chain with no serious work. The gullets haven't even been cleaned out properly or anything.

12 minutes on the video....

The 395XP is about 25% faster.......I think I can catch it and pass it with the MS661.


----------



## mdavlee

Well it looks like a modded 395 is 50% faster than a stock 390. opcorn:opcorn:


----------



## Buffhunter

Mastermind said:


> Now we have a video of the MS661 with the same chain that the 395XP was running. This is a square ground chain with no serious work. The gullets haven't even been cleaned out properly or anything.
> 
> 12 minutes on the video....
> 
> The 395XP is about 25% faster.......I think I can catch it and pass it with the MS661.




Wow you must of found major improvements to make in that 661 to make a statement like that!!!!


----------



## Mastermind




----------



## Mastermind

Buffhunter said:


> Wow you must of found major improvements to make in that 661 to make a statement like that!!!!



I've not even pulled the muffler yet.


----------



## 7sleeper

I see a problem with these comparisons in the way that the 395 is already broke in while the 661 is on it's second? refill. Wonder seriously how much of the 25% would be left after a nice run in time? 

7


----------



## 7sleeper

BTW the Stihl saw was way faster! It cut through the log in one cut.... 

7


----------



## Mastermind

7sleeper said:


> I see a problem with these comparisons in the way that the 395 is already broke in while the 661 is on it's second? refill. Wonder seriously how much of the 25% would be left after a nice run in time?
> 
> 7



I just put that 395XP together......it has less time on it than the Stihl does.


----------



## 7sleeper

Thanks for the clarification! But was the 395 also brand new?

7


----------



## Mastermind

Yes.


----------



## bryanr2

395 still has the tag on the handle.

I timed these cuts.....

395 in the second cut hit the wood at 50 sec and cleared it at 1:08= 18 sec
661 hit the wood at 29 sec and cleared it at 54 sec= 25sec.

right now Im digging the 395. 
Continue on......


----------



## bryanr2

however that 661 is easy on the eyes.


----------



## bryanr2

your comments on the 661 I could barely hear ya over the thumping of the beast but did you say "seems to be idling too rich, not a damn thing I can do about it neither"?


----------



## XSKIER

bryanr2 said:


> however that 661 is easy on the eyes.


I concur. That 395 definitely appears to be clumsy.


----------



## bryanr2

I dont see anything clumsy about that 395.... he sat it on the log and it did all the work.


----------



## AKDoug

If anyone is worried about Stihl and the warranty, covering the serial number in the photos might be prudent


----------



## Mastermind

AKDoug said:


> If anyone is worried about Stihl and the warranty, covering the serial number in the photos might be prudent



It's a given that when I grind away at the jug on this saw, it will void the Warranty....

Yeah Big B, that's what I said. That richness might work in our favor though when all is done. 

I'm trying to get my bench cleared.......200Ts have invaded.


----------



## rburg

What length bar are you running on the 395 and 661?


----------



## Mastermind

28


----------



## bryanr2

Mastermind said:


> He'll have to have both......you'll see.



I think that video cements this prediction. That saw is intoxicating. Now I got to figure what to cut loose.


----------



## Metals406

Soooo, am I hearing that these are limited release? Or being pulled out from introduction?


----------



## rburg

Is Nixon's 395 as strong as the one you brought to Wiggs's gtg? That was a strong runner.


----------



## Mastermind

Metals406 said:


> Soooo, am I hearing that these are limited release? Or being pulled out from introduction?



I have no real details. 

Release date has been pushed back or something like that. 



rburg said:


> Is Nixon's 395 as strong as the one you brought to Wiggs's gtg? That was a strong runner.



Should be the same........at least it's ported the same way.


----------



## LowVolt

Whoever said this thread was "saw porno" was right. I have got to get my hands on one of these.

Damn you recall! Damn you!


----------



## Metals406

Yes, Randy is the chainsaw devil. . . Temping and flaunting.


----------



## luckydad

Mastermind said:


> It's a given that when I grind away at the jug on this saw, it will void the Warranty....
> 
> Yeah Big B, that's what I said. That richness might work in our favor though when all is done.
> 
> I'm trying to get my bench cleared.......200Ts have invaded.


200t s I like those little saws .. Thinking of trying 1 of those new huskys 2 ..


----------



## Mastermind

luckydad said:


> 200t s I like those little saws .. Thinking of trying 1 of those new huskys 2 ..



I hope you like em........two of them are yours. 

One had the coil go out while we were test running it. I'm glad that happened here rather than after we sent it home.


----------



## nixon

Randy ,
Thanks for doing the 395 ! I know I'm going to love using that thing a lot . Even if the 661 beats the 395 , i don't care. Been want a 395 for a long time . Besides , I'm saving my pennies for a 595 xpg if it ever gets made !


----------



## Mastermind

Sorry it took me so long John. When I killed the flywheel, I never thought it would take so long to get a new one. .


----------



## nixon

Mastermind said:


> Sorry it took me so long John. When I killed the flywheel, I never thought it would take so long to get a new one. .


No apology needed . Good things are always worth the wait !I didn't figure on you even getting around to it until about now . I hate it that the flywheel got fubared and you had to get a new one .
A neighbor called a couple of days ago and said that a recent storm had dropped a big oak branch in his yard,and would I cut it up for him . I told him sure when the weather clears up a bit . Turns out it's the whole tree ! Red oak about 36" at the base . Looks like it's going to be the 395's break in tree . New ported saw , free red oak ......... Life is good !!!


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> It's a given that when I grind away at the jug on this saw, it will void the Warranty....
> 
> Yeah Big B, that's what I said. That richness might work in our favor though when all is done.
> 
> I'm trying to get my bench cleared.......200Ts have invaded.



I thought it sounded a little fat even up top compared to the other M-tronic models, of course I'm sure it's not supposed to turn the RPMs that the smaller M-trons do......

Looks nice in stock form....


----------



## bryanr2

nixon said:


> No apology needed . Good things are always worth the wait !I didn't figure on you even getting around to it until about now . I hate it that the flywheel got fubared and you had to get a new one .
> A neighbor call a couple of days ago and said that a recent storm had dropped a big oak branch in his yard,and would I cut it up for him . I told him sure when the weather clears up a bit . Turns out it's the whole tree ! Red oak about 36" at the base . *Looks like it's going to be the 395's break in tree . New ported saw , free red oak ......... Life is good !!!*


*
*
Sounds like "everything in the universe is aligning perfectly" for you on that deal. The Saw Gods must be smilin on ya. Ive got saws and nothing to cut at the moment.


----------



## nixon

bryanr2 said:


> Sounds like "everything in the universe is aligning perfectly" for you on that deal. The Saw Gods must be smilin on ya. Ive got saws and nothing to cut at the moment.


Sometimes fortune just smiles on us that way. In addition to that oak he has a decent cherry as well . Heck, I have a tri-axle load of oak ,and one of black locust sitting here that I just could not get to this year .
It's going to be busy when the weather breaks !


----------



## treesmith

Randy, you could be to Stihl what AMG is to Mercedes! Now kick that Volvo's butt! 
Do like a 395 though


----------



## Trx250r180

Ahem............


I don't see no hopped up 461 in this mix ...................


----------



## blsnelling

Looks very strong to me, especially for a stock saw. If it can hang within 30% of one of Randy's 395s, that's saying something right there. Randy's 395s are a force to be reckoned with. As with the 461, the 661 looks like it has loads of torque.


----------



## porsche965

treesmith said:


> Randy, you could be to Stihl what AMG is to Mercedes! Now kick that Volvo's butt!
> Do like a 395 though



AMG....now we're talking. LOL. Go Randy!


----------



## Mastermind

Trx250r180 said:


> Ahem............
> 
> 
> I don't see no hopped up 461 in this mix ...................



You don't yet......



blsnelling said:


> Looks very strong to me, especially for a stock saw. If it can hang within 30% of one of Randy's 395s, that's saying something right there. Randy's 395s are a force to be reckoned with. As with the 461, the 661 looks like it has loads of torque.



Both saws were pulling the same skip chain, with an 8 pin rim. 

I've got some more pics........I gotta eat a bite right quick.....BRB.


----------



## porsche965

Anyone know where the coil was made on the 661?


----------



## Mastermind

After about 1.5 tanks of fuel.....


----------



## Mastermind




----------



## Mastermind




----------



## LegDeLimber

Mercy sakes, I musta replayed the idle portion 8 times.
Sounds like one of the mid '70s Yamaha enduros 
with a shaved head and a tad bit larger carb than stock.
the mechanical "clatter" is about dead on for the 250cc idle noise.
Sorta eerie in a way.
Lacking an accelerator pump, most guys set those Mikunis a little fat at idle
to compensate.
I drove my self silly getting the slide cutaway trimmed, any notching dialed in
and nozzle height, needle selection.
ah the memories....


----------



## moody

Pics like this make my feel goods .....feel good


----------



## Mastermind




----------



## 7sleeper

Thanks Randy! Great pics as usual!!! Worthy of rep! To bad the function has been disabled.

7

edit: hope you get an endoscope soon so that we can even have a better look "inside"


----------



## LegDeLimber

any stock port timing numbers yet, 
or did my scatterbrained self overlook them on an earlier page?


----------



## porsche965

Talked with my Dealer this morning about the 661s that he sold. To be vague about the numbers, over 12 and under 24, there are at least a dozen in loggers hands now for a month or so and they haven't had a one of theirs sold report a problem. That is good news.
Not one of the Proto types this past spring/summer had an issue of any kind. Not sure of just how many of those that were in testing, but not many. They sent them back to Germany. 

Pics are great Randy.


----------



## Saw Dr.

Mastermind said:


> So, they are aware of the thread?



I cannot speak for the manufacturer. They have lawyers for that. If they were officially aware of such a thread, they'd at minimum have to send you a letter to inform you that you are using a product inconsistent with it's design, and breaking the law (EPA). I'm sure the phrase "cease and desist" would be included. Remember that this is a very public forum where anyone could be watching, including ambulance chaser TV lawyers.

What people do from their home computers is their own business no matter where they work during business hours.


----------



## moody

Ooooooohhhh I like it.........wait it's creamsicle. What's wrong with me?


----------



## blsnelling

Yup, it's an over grown MS461. Looks like the muffler opening is much larger than the current MS660.


----------



## chadihman

Ahh the piston stuffer just like the 461. Is the stuffer a new thing to chainsaws? An old machinist told me they used custom made stuffers in cart engines.


----------



## Duane(Pa)

It's a Fiat!


----------



## windthrown

LowVolt said:


> Whoever said this thread was "saw porno" was right. I have got to get my hands on one of these.
> 
> Damn you recall! Damn you!


 
Yes, that would be me... large size MM ported saw vids are hard core saw prono straight from Tennessee.

Got wood?


----------



## windthrown

Duane(Pa) said:


> It's a Fiat!


 
Fix it again, Tony?


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Randy, are you going to try a couple different muffler mods before porting? might be interesting to see what just the MM does first.


----------



## Mastermind

singinwoodwackr said:


> Randy, are you going to try a couple different muffler mods before porting? might be interesting to see what just the MM does first.



Well, I had planned to do that.......but someone really wanted to see inside this thing really badly. After tearing it down all the way to the piston, I sorta hate to put it all back together just to see what a muffler mod does.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

good point 
think the 661 P&C would fit the older saws?


----------



## MasterMech

nixon said:


> No apology needed . Good things are always worth the wait !I didn't figure on you even getting around to it until about now . I hate it that the flywheel got fubared and you had to get a new one .
> A neighbor called a couple of days ago and said that a recent storm had dropped a big oak branch in his yard,and would I cut it up for him . I told him sure when the weather clears up a bit . Turns out it's the whole tree ! Red oak about 36" at the base . Looks like it's going to be the 395's break in tree . New ported saw , free red oak ......... Life is good !!!


That 395XP is one mean soundin' mother.....


----------



## Stihl working hard

Mastermind said:


>


Awesome pictures as per usuall thanks time to wip out the die grinder


----------



## chadihman

singinwoodwackr said:


> good point
> think the 661 P&C would fit the older saws?


Nope. Transfer ports on bottom end wouldn't work.


----------



## chadihman

Stihl working hard said:


> Awesome pictures as per usuall thanks time to wip out the die grinder


No no I didn't see a degree wheel yet.


----------



## MasterMech

That air filter shot makes it worth trading in a 660 for one of these. High time Stihl improved in that area.


----------



## LowVolt

Anyone know if there will be a dual port muffler available? It sure looks like that will be an option.

Also looks like not much or nothing to remove on the inside. The oem opening could use some work.


----------



## Stihl working hard

chadihman said:


> No no I didn't see a degree wheel yet.


Get the die grinder ready in case the degree wheel turns up starting to get excited now


----------



## bryanr2

Hold up. So the 395 was already ported and the 661 was still stock? with only 7 seconds cut difference? WOW.


----------



## Mastermind

Glad to see you are paying attention.


----------



## Fire8

bryanr2 said:


> Hold up. So the 395 was already ported and the 661 was still stock? with only 7 seconds cut difference? WOW.



Sounds like you are trying to figure out how to add a 661


----------



## windthrown

porsche965 said:


> Talked with my Dealer this morning about the 661s that he sold. To be vague about the numbers, over 12 and under 24, there are at least a dozen in loggers hands now for a month or so and they haven't had a one of theirs sold report a problem. That is good news.
> Not one of the Proto types this past spring/summer had an issue of any kind. Not sure of just how many of those that were in testing, but not many. They sent them back to Germany.


 
From what I read online in Europe last year, the 661s were developed and are being built in Germany. As such they tested them in Europe a lot more than they did here. Accordingly, there were a lot of 661 saws tested in places like Germany, the UK and Poland. As contrasted to the 362 which is made in VA and tested a lot more stateside. The test/prototype saws were all one-off saws as well, and like the 362 had some variations, whereas these released models are all the same from the production line. Dealers in Germany claim that the 661 duds are mainly overseas, but from what users are reporting in Germany, there are some saws that are duds there as well.

If its a cylinder mold or casting problem, that would make sense.


----------



## Gologit

Mastermind said:


> Well, I had planned to do that.......but someone really wanted to see inside this thing really badly. After tearing it down all the way to the piston, I sorta hate to put it all back together just to see what a muffler mod does.




Meh, it'll go back together easy. It would be interesting to see what kind of gains a muffler mod would produce. Not to mention the difference in exhaust sound.


----------



## Mastermind

Gologit said:


> Meh, it'll go back together easy. It would be interesting to see what kind of gains a muffler mod would produce. Not to mention the difference in exhaust sound.



Yeah, I'm gonna do that boss.

I don't think the muffler mod alone with do that much for it. I don't want to add extra outlets, and make it overly loud either....


----------



## Gologit

Mastermind said:


> Yeah, I'm gonna do that boss.
> 
> I don't think the muffler mod alone with do that much for it. I don't want to add extra outlets, and make it overly loud either....


 True. The stock muffler is pretty good but it still sounds more like an oven timer going off than a _real_ saw.


----------



## Mastermind

Gologit said:


> True. The stock muffler is pretty good but it still *sounds more like an oven timer going off* than a _real_ saw.




We're gonna fix that.


----------



## Mtthwvn

So after you port the saw, are you going to have to take it to a stihl dealership and have it retuned or will it automatically adjust to the mods that have been done to it? I would have thought there would be decent gains from modding the muffler. I figured they would be pretty restrictive from the factory with all the new emissions laws


----------



## windthrown

Mtthwvn said:


> So after you port the saw, are you going to have to take it to a stihl dealership and have it retuned or will it automatically adjust to the mods that have been done to it? I would have thought there would be decent gains from modding the muffler. I figured they would be pretty restrictive from the factory with all the new emissions laws


 
Are you serious? ...taking a MM modified saw to a Stihl dealer?

New laws imposed by the EPA state that if someone takes a modified saw to any dealer, the dealer has to restore said saws to its original condition. Several people have had that happen that removed the limiter tabs, even on saws that they take in to just get the chains sharpened on. The dealers replaced them with limiters with tabs on them.

Supposedly the computers on these saws auto-detect the mods and compensate for them. No need to get them re-adjusted at the dealership. Or ever tune them. Similar to taking them up and down in elevation, or getting a clogged muffler screen or air filter, or changing gas and oil mix.


----------



## bryanr2

opcorn:


----------



## LowVolt

I wonder if the EPA has ever busted a saw shop for not putting the limiter caps back on a saw where they were removed? Set up a sting and catch those law breaking bastards. If I saw that memo come down the pipe it would instantly be headed to the trash. What a joke!


----------



## PA Dan

Mastermind said:


> This laptop is the problem.......it's just slow, and locks up a lot. I have zero patience for that sort of stuff.



Maybe you need a ported laptop!


----------



## Mtthwvn

Ok, please pardon my ignorance lol. 
I just didn't know how it was to be done. I didn't know that the dealerships were that strict on modified saws. I could understand voiding the warranty on a modified saw but I didn't know if their to be worked on by a dealership they have to take it back to the factory specs. 
That would be like taking a car that has cherry bombs and headers on it to the dealership for an oil change and them having to put the factory exhaust manifolds and mufflers back on it, weather it was passing emissions or not.


----------



## AKDoug

windthrown said:


> Are you serious? ...taking a MM modified saw to a Stihl dealer?
> 
> New laws imposed by the EPA state that if someone takes a modified saw to any dealer, the dealer has to restore said saws to its original condition. Several people have had that happen that removed the limiter tabs, even on saws that they take in to just get the chains sharpened on. The dealers replaced them with limiters with tabs on them.
> 
> Supposedly the computers on these saws auto-detect the mods and compensate for them. No need to get them re-adjusted at the dealership. Or ever tune them. Similar to taking them up and down in elevation, or getting a clogged muffler screen or air filter, or changing gas and oil mix.


At no point in any of my training from Stihl have I been told that I need to return a saw to stock because of the EPA. We were, however, warned heartily that the fines were steep if we modified the saw. The liability section was scary though, so every saw that comes into my place leaves with all it's warning stickers in place and safety features intact. Also, I will not accept a saw for repair that will leave with a non-functioning chain brake. I am FAR more scared of product liability lawyers than I am the EPA.


----------



## AKDoug

Enough derailing  More 661 pictures because I can't get one of my own right now.


----------



## 7sleeper

LowVolt said:


> I wonder if the EPA has ever busted a saw shop for not putting the limiter caps back on a saw where they were removed? Set up a sting and catch those law breaking bastards. If I saw that memo come down the pipe it would instantly be headed to the trash. What a joke!


Till the moment you read how high the fines can be! As far as I remember someone mentioned >20000$! So I really believe that everyone is chitting their pants full of being caught! And then comes the liability crowd. "_My modified saw ran so great, I thought that it would be no problem cutting down that humogous tree but in the wrong moment it let me down! The dealer didn't warn me in advance...._"

7


----------



## Milkman31

I know i am new here and don't understand some things and don't take this the wrong way but I don't think that the owner of this saw will ever take this saw back to the dealer. It's just like a few friends of mine they go out buy new trucks and first thing is to put new a/m turbo,injectors,intake,head studs ,programmer ,22in tires,4in lift so now they have a $50,000 truck with no warranty . Some people just like to play and I'm glad they can ,I can't lol can't Waite to see it done


----------



## Ironworker

Nobody cares about dealers and warranty issues, start a new thread or something, now let's move on please.


----------



## BKrusher

greyfox said:


> Nobody cares about dealers and warranty issues, start a new thread or something, now let's move on please.


----------



## zogger

AKDoug said:


> At no point in any of my training from Stihl have I been told that I need to return a saw to stock because of the EPA. We were, however, warned heartily that the fines were steep if we modified the saw. The liability section was scary though, so every saw that comes into my place leaves with all it's warning stickers in place and safety features intact. Also, I will not accept a saw for repair that will leave with a non-functioning chain brake. I am FAR more scared of product liability lawyers than I am the EPA.



A local shop here I go to is strict on mods and non functioning chainbrakes. If a saw comes in with a gutted muffler/broken brake, etc, it can't leave the shop unless it is fixed back to stock. That's their policy anyway.


----------



## HuskStihl

I'm actually pretty pissed off at Randy right now. He *never* mentioned that my 394 would lose its warranty coverage with his port job. It was supposed be a nice, quiet, gas sipping saw thatI could limb with all day, but Randy ****ed it up royally, and now it sounds like a Harley on crack, cuts like a pissed off light saber, and "your mileage may vary". Thank god I still have my electric hedge clippers.


----------



## MasterMech

Mtthwvn said:


> So after you port the saw, are you going to have to take it to a stihl dealership and have it retuned or will it automatically adjust to the mods that have been done to it? I would have thought there would be decent gains from modding the muffler. I figured they would be pretty restrictive from the factory with all the new emissions laws


The mufflers on both of my new M-tronic saws are far less restrictive then the stock mufflers on previous models. I think the stratocharged engines and auto adjusting carbs negate having to have a more restricted exhausted to meet emissions standards. These new saws thankfully are not like early fuel injection systems on cars, which were very intolerant of any kind of airflow mod.


----------



## Officer's Match

Alright, I resisted long enough... sub'd in.


----------



## XSKIER

Mtthwvn said:


> So after you port the saw, are you going to have to take it to a stihl dealership and have it retuned or will it automatically adjust to the mods that have been done to it? I would have thought there would be decent gains from modding the muffler. I figured they would be pretty restrictive from the factory with all the new emissions laws



Why do people continue to perpetuate the stereotype that new saws are too restricted? The stock exhaust outlet on a MS 261 C-M is twice the size of a stock MS 260 PRO.


----------



## MasterMech

XSKIER said:


> Why do people continue to perpetuate the stereotype that new saws are too restricted? The stock exhaust outlet on a MS 261 C-M is twice the size of a stock MS 260 PRO.


As is the outlet on my 441CM vs the stock outlet on my old 460s. IIRC Stihl was forcing the 660 to breathe through a coffee stirrer too no? DP mufflers were a popular mod for that one too. I'm interested to see what Randy does to the muffler on this one....


----------



## shootingarts

LowVolt said:


> I wonder if the EPA has ever busted a saw shop for not putting the limiter caps back on a saw where they were removed? Set up a sting and catch those law breaking bastards. If I saw that memo come down the pipe it would instantly be headed to the trash. What a joke!



Believe it or not, the EPA has a swat team! It was used just recently in a raid on a place. Much easier to scare the crap out of basically law abiding citizens that might be tempted to pull a limiter cap and not replace it than drug dealers and hard core crime organizations.

I'm ready for more saw info and pictures myself but today is Sunday, a day for rest, religion, and family. Well maybe the occasional fishing trip too!

Hu


----------



## LowVolt

Hell. At least this derailing is chainsaw related. Just wait till these guys really get off topic.


----------



## wyk

I like pie


----------



## chadihman

reindeer said:


> I like pie


There it is! Derailed derailed!


----------



## chadihman

I said it before in other posts but my 461 showed hardly any gain after a dual port. My 460's and 660 loved a good mm. I bet the 661 doesn't make much a difference with a mm in stock form. I also bet a mm will make a difference after Randy sticks his spinny thingy in there. It should be ported and tested with a stock muffler and modded muffler. 

Just my two cents.


----------



## Mastermind

chadihman said:


> I said it before in other posts but my 461 showed hardly any gain after a dual port. My 460's and 660 loved a good mm. I bet the 661 doesn't make much a difference with a mm in stock form. I also bet a mm will make a difference after Randy sticks his spinny thingy in there. It should be ported and tested with a stock muffler and modded muffler.
> 
> Just my two cents.



This is the first post I've seen that I felt inclined to reply to. 

The others scare the **** out of me. I started doing this just to give me something to do with my hands while I was sick.........like everything else in my life, I got carried away with it.

I just have this one muffler Chad. Do you think I should mod the saw and run it with the stock muffler, then mod the muffler?

Tree Monkey and I talked on the phone about it last night. He thinks that the baffle is just for bracing, and should be removed right away. It looks that way to me as well, though it is a better way of bracing the muffler than we have seen in the past.


----------



## splitpost

Very cool ,thanks randy for taking the time to post the pics,looks like a better finnished saw than the 461,might have to save up for one now

Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2


----------



## crane

Randy,

As parts(mufflers) may be scarce, while this recall is in effect. I would port the saw, leave the muff stock. See what it does. You can then go back and MM, if you want. Any gains that show up after the port on a MM would show up before the porting--Yes? 
I understand, that you want to follow along with your tests, like the other threads. MM then port, then ported with a stock muffler. Can you get another stock muffler?


----------



## mdavlee

I don't know if the way the muffler is pretty well open inside and a larger opening than the 660 may not benefit much from a muffler mod. There's only one way to find out though. I'm sure it could use the extra opening after other mods.


----------



## LowVolt

Any chance in hell the 660 front muffler half bolts up? I doubt it but it looks similar.


----------



## Mastermind

LowVolt said:


> Any chance in hell the 660 front muffler half bolts up? I doubt it but it looks similar.



Nope......tried that.


----------



## bryanr2

I wouldn't worry about the epa at our level. Sure a Global company like Stihl or Husq has to fall into compliance, but what we do in our own backyard is our business. I dont think that they have the resources to hound every violation on an individual basis. I have 3 Diesel trucks- 97 7.3 Powerstroke, 04 5.9 Cummins, and a 2010 4500 with 6.7. Only one of them is Emissions Compliant and it is an absolute turd compared to the others. The other trucks will walk all over it. As soon as the warranty expires- all that emissions crap is coming off- I have 10K miles to go.


----------



## chadihman

Mastermind said:


> This is the first post I've seen that I felt inclined to reply to.
> 
> The others scare the **** out of me. I started doing this just to give me something to do with my hands while I was sick.........like everything else in my life, I got carried away with it.
> 
> I just have this one muffler Chad. Do you think I should mod the saw and run it with the stock muffler, then mod the muffler?
> 
> Tree Monkey and I talked on the phone about it last night. He thinks that the baffle is just for bracing, and should be removed right away. It looks that way to me as well, though it is a better way of bracing the muffler than we have seen in the past.


I'll see if I can get a muffler for ya. If so I'll ship it asap.


----------



## Duane(Pa)

Some Guru must have been paid to design the muffler and the design may have merit. It sure looks kind of uncorked compared to older saws. I would just port match it and see what it nets. I don't think were going to be standing here scratching our heads saying "sounds kinda clogged up". Looks pretty open to me.


----------



## chadihman

Heck I'll ship three of those mufflers to you to tinker with if I can get em. Give me a minute to get on my work laptop and see if there available.


----------



## LowVolt

chadihman said:


> Heck I'll ship three of those mufflers to you to tinker with if I can get em. Give me a minute to get on my work laptop and see if there available.



Look for dual port cover too!


----------



## HuskStihl

That saw is unfortunately triple my saw budget. Too bad, looks amazing. Randy, how does the spring AV feel compared to 390 AV? A big Stihl with spring AV could feel like a husky if it weren't careful[/quote]


----------



## splitpost

Without having a side by side that 661rear half looks like it may take the new model 880 front half

Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2


----------



## chadihman

Found all the part #'s for the 661. I can't get any of the #'s to work in our parts system. Too new I guess. I'll give Stihl a call in the morning.


----------



## windthrown

bryanr2 said:


> I wouldn't worry about the epa at our level. Sure a Global company like Stihl or Husq has to fall into compliance, but what we do in our own backyard is our business. I dont think that they have the resources to hound every violation on an individual basis. I have 3 Diesel trucks- 97 7.3 Powerstroke, 04 5.9 Cummins, and a 2010 4500 with 6.7. Only one of them is Emissions Compliant and it is an absolute turd compared to the others. The other trucks will walk all over it. As soon as the warranty expires- all that emissions crap is coming off- I have 10K miles to go.


 
Might work in a state/region where they do not do vehicle testing. Here in most areas of the west, they plug your vehicle into the computer and it must comply with the air quality standard, or you do not get a license plate sticker. You can also be pulled over by the police, or turned in by anyone that sees your vehicle smoking here. Then they send you a citation requiring another vehicle smog test. Also as I read it, the EPA is going after the industry side in regards to smog laws. So they are sitting on manufacturers, importers, and factory dealership/shops, and anyplace where licensing is involved. Also as I read it, as a saw owner you can do whatever you want. Its just the choke points like importing and dealership shops where they can make things difficult.


----------



## Mike from Maine

windthrown said:


> Also as I read it, as a saw owner you can do whatever you want. Its just the choke points like importing and dealership shops where they can make things difficult.




Obviously it would be hard to come after individual saw owners...

Only matter of time before the .GOV comes up with a more creative solution then the stupid plastic limiters. Like say a sub-routine on those fancy micro chips that determines if the saw is using to much fuel and then kills the ignition.

Because, you know, chainsaws are the source of global warming.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Mastermind said:


> Yeah, I'm gonna do that boss.
> 
> I don't think the muffler mod alone with do that much for it. I don't want to add extra outlets, and make it overly loud either....


hmm, the original 066 had 7.8hp with the dual port (red-eye) vs 7.0 for the single port. (what my original spec sheet shows) That's a substantial difference. When I first got my 066 I had broken an ear off the OE muffler front and ordered a replacement. What came in was a flat, no-port, cover that I figured I'd try. The saw would barely run  Returned the 'new' cover and had the old one fixed...problem solved. Opening up the dual port holes a tad added a little more gain. opening them up too much, however, made things worse  ...good thing I have a bunch of extra covers.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Mastermind said:


> I just have this one muffler Chad. Do you think I should mod the saw and run it with the stock muffler, then mod the muffler?
> 
> Tree Monkey and I talked on the phone about it last night. He thinks that the baffle is just for bracing, and should be removed right away. It looks that way to me as well, though it is a better way of bracing the muffler than we have seen in the past.



personally, I'd leave that baffle alone...not restrictive at all and looks to add some strength to the muffler.


----------



## redbull660

I got some ok gains over a bone stock 660, simply by removing the baffle. Then I went a step further and got some real nice gains, when I added the DP muffler and made the stock port bigger yet.

based on that I would think we could see some nice gains if randy did a MM on the 661. ...but I wonder how much the 660 dp style muff cover helps by venting directly out the* front* vs out the side? Meaning, that a MM on a 661 on the side instead of out the front might not produce as good of gains as a front venting cover?


----------



## Mastermind

HuskStihl said:


> That saw is unfortunately triple my saw budget. Too bad, looks amazing. Randy, how does the spring AV feel compared to 390 AV? A big Stihl with spring AV could feel like a husky if it weren't careful


[/quote]

Smooth baby.....smooth.


----------



## mdavlee

singinwoodwackr said:


> hmm, the original 066 had 7.8hp with the dual port (red-eye) vs 7.0 for the single port. (what my original spec sheet shows) That's a substantial difference. When I first got my 066 I had broken an ear off the OE muffler front and ordered a replacement. What came in was a flat, no-port, cover that I figured I'd try. The saw would barely run  Returned the 'new' cover and had the old one fixed...problem solved. Opening up the dual port holes a tad added a little more gain. opening them up too much, however, made things worse  ...good thing I have a bunch of extra covers.



There's a difference in cylinders also on those two versions. The earlier cylinder makes more power than the layer versions.


----------



## chadihman

mdavlee said:


> There's a difference in cylinders also on those two versions. The earlier cylinder makes more power than the layer versions.


It would be really nice to see the dyno specs from the saw companies. My dyno runs showed some really neat #'s that I never really thought of before. What rpm the max HP is at is important. Some saws have max HP at 10,000 some at 8,500 or lower. Some hold there max HP at a broad range in rpms and some drop HP quickly when the load is pulling it under its max HP rpm. A saw that has 7 HP at 10,000 rpms and holds that hp all the way down to 8000 rpms is going to be a serious ripper


----------



## trophyhunter

Mastermind said:


> You guys really give me too much credit. I'm not doing anything special to any of these saws. I'm just careful not to over do them.


I read every one of your threads and pay attention because I always learn something and take that away from it. That is something *special* on account of you taking the time to be careful and painstakingly methodical in attention to detail and performance one job at a time, every time. 

Your the best in the business because of the amount of work and attention every saw you put your name on gets, and it doesn't go unnoticed. That is special, and worth every penny the finished product costs. The fact you choose to share all of that knowledge on the forums is a big deal to guys looking for straight answers when it comes to spending their hard earned dollars making saw purchases or mods.

Whether someone needs a new saw or just want's one it's a very big deal, cause these things aren't cheap. Mastermind meets *any~saw* threads are pure gold for not making expensive mistakes.


----------



## Reyn

Mastermind said:


> This laptop is the problem.......it's just slow, and locks up a lot. I have zero patience for that sort of stuff.


Lookin at boobies online will do that.


----------



## Mastermind

Reyn said:


> Lookin at boobies online will do that.



Ah.....the voice of experience.


----------



## mdavlee

chadihman said:


> It would be really nice to see the dyno specs from the saw companies. My dyno runs showed some really neat #'s that I never really thought of before. What rpm the max HP is at is important. Some saws have max HP at 10,000 some at 8,500 or lower. Some hold there max HP at a broad range in rpms and some drop HP quickly when the load is pulling it under its max HP rpm. A saw that has 7 HP at 10,000 rpms and holds that hp all the way down to 8000 rpms is going to be a serious ripper



I wish I had a few different cylinders to send you to test or a whole saw. Once I hit outages this spring I may be willing to part with a saw or two for you to run on the dyno.


----------



## windthrown

Yes, this site has tagged p o r n as a bad word. So you have to type porno, or porne, or fully spell out pornography. Go figure...

However, typing shyte is OK here. The Irish accent version of sh*t.


----------



## Mastermind

redbull660 said:


> Randy, how large is the port opening on the 661 Muffler?



15mm


----------



## redbull660

k, thought it looked bigger in the picture than the 660. Pretty sure that is 15mm as well.


----------



## Trx250r180

redbull660 said:


> k, thought it looked bigger in the picture than the 660. Pretty sure that is 15mm as well.


my 660 muffler was smaller than 15 ,maybe closer to the 10-12mm size


----------



## chadihman

Mastermind said:


> 15mm


Oh thats big. Much higher flowing muffler on the 661 vs 660. I think Stihl done there homework.


----------



## Mastermind

I've got a few saws that must be in the owners hands before Christmas........that has set this saw back a couple of days. 

The good part about it is that I have more time to think about what I should or shouldn't do.......


----------



## Miles86

I found this letter from Stihl, (on the internet- another forum which I won't say so I don't get banned here I hope not) anyway if this is a duplicate sorry..
Taken from other forum unable to credit--- Quote--

"Thank you for your enquiry below, I apologise for the delay in my response.
The MS661 C Chainsaw was recently introduced to the GB Market, which was developed and produced with the utmost care. Despite this care, in-house quality tests have revealed few examples of malfunctioning engines in our first production run and very small number of cases have occurred in actual use. These problems specifically relate to the satisfactory performance of the engine. I must stress that it is not a recall.
STIHL is synonymous with quality and the complete satisfaction of our customers will always be our top priority. It is with this in mind we have stopped producing this model at this time.
If your machines have been running without issue, there should not be a problem with your MS661’s in use. However should you have encountered running problems from the outset, please refer to your local Dealer who will assess the item and seek our advice.
I trust this clarifies your enquiry, however should you have any further concerns you wish to discuss please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind regards,
Claire Wells
Customer Relations Advisor" --- end quote ----


----------



## John R

My dealer is still telling me I can get a 661 after the first of the year.
Hope he's right.

*I want a big saw!!*


----------



## Timberwerks

I'm glad I held off on the Husky 390. Instead I'll go with the full wrap 661 when my dealer can get it.


----------



## John R

Does anyone know if I can get a 661 with heated handles?


----------



## redbull660

yeah they had that one in the PDF brochure


----------



## SierraWoodsman

bryanr2 said:


> Im gonna need that 395 to spank this 661 or I'll be spending the first quarter of the new year on the couch.


This may be the 395 I sent Randy, and it's a strong running low hour saw W/Tilly Carb (old model). That said, I know it won't beat my Masterminded 390xp I recently got back at least in 28" pine.
which is the biggest log I had to test it in so far.
I'm kinda interested how it competes as well. All these are Great saws though 

Should have read the whole thread, Different 395, You got a couple of the (at least).


----------



## Mastermind

I've yet to open "The Cooler".


----------



## SierraWoodsman

That's cool Randy..


----------



## Stihlofadeal64

Mastermind said:


> I hate this new format.....


me too...can't get used to it


----------



## windthrown

Well, its this forum format or linkback & hacks... thanks to some a-holes in South Asia

See my new sig photo/quote for a general comment on technology.


----------



## bootboy

Miles86 said:


> I found this letter from Stihl, (on the internet- another forum which I won't say so I don't get banned here I hope not) anyway if this is a duplicate sorry..
> Taken from other forum unable to credit--- Quote--
> 
> "Thank you for your enquiry below, I apologise for the delay in my response.
> The MS661 C Chainsaw was recently introduced to the GB Market, which was developed and produced with the utmost care. Despite this care, in-house quality tests have revealed few examples of malfunctioning engines in our first production run and very small number of cases have occurred in actual use. These problems specifically relate to the satisfactory performance of the engine. I must stress that it is not a recall.
> STIHL is synonymous with quality and the complete satisfaction of our customers will always be our top priority. It is with this in mind we have stopped producing this model at this time.
> If your machines have been running without issue, there should not be a problem with your MS661’s in use. However should you have encountered running problems from the outset, please refer to your local Dealer who will assess the item and seek our advice.
> I trust this clarifies your enquiry, however should you have any further concerns you wish to discuss please do not hesitate to contact us.
> Kind regards,
> Claire Wells
> Customer Relations Advisor" --- end quote ----




This post was the worst part of my day


----------



## zogger

bootboy said:


> This post was the worst part of my day



Not necessarily. Suppose you dropped over a grand on a new saw and it turned out to have serious issues? It's a *good* thing they are recalling for inspection and/or repair.


----------



## bryanr2

Is Stihl forcing 661 owners to return and exchange for a new 660 or are they giving them the option to get their money back or wait for the re-release of the 661? Id be super pizzed if I wanted the Quad Port Mtron661 and got forced into 660 anchor.


----------



## B Harrison

Read and waiting, the 395 still is looking like a beast of a saw, no matter what the results of the port work on a 661.


----------



## Mastermind

Sorry about the delay. I'm trying to get some saws out in time for Christmas.....


----------



## Adirondackstihl

> Christmas


----------



## morewood

Mastermind said:


> Sorry about the delay. I'm trying to get some saws out in time for Christmas.....


 
Get back to work then.....get off the slow computer and get back to what pays the bills brother.

Shea


----------



## Fire8

Steven just go ahead and pay Randy to do your 661 that way your be in line for when you get it I'm sure he will take the money


----------



## HuskStihl

So, Randy can make the compression, port size, and port timing basically anything he wants. It seems like a well ported 661 should be about the same as a similarly ported 660, 394, 9010. Is this crazy thinking?


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> So, Randy can make the compression, port size, and port timing basically anything he wants. It seems like a well ported 661 should be about the same as a similarly ported 660, 394, 9010. Is this crazy thinking?




yes


after x-mas is fine Randy for getting back on the thread, I'm sure no one will mind ...............


----------



## Mastermind

After we get our shipping completed for this week, I'll be able to finish this.


----------



## mdavlee

Mastermind said:


> After we get our shipping completed for this week, I'll be able to finish this.



I'm coming to visit hopefully before this saw leaves there.


----------



## zogger

One of the coolest things about the new 661cm is that husky will need a new 39xAT now....


----------



## ptjeep

mdavlee said:


> I'm coming to visit hopefully before this saw leaves there.


Hollar before you roll through town, I might tag along.


----------



## mdavlee

ptjeep said:


> Hollar before you roll through town, I might tag along.



I will.


----------



## blsnelling

Hey, I want to go!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MasterMech

Think we could rent a bus?


----------



## blsnelling

It would have to be a short one, lol!


----------



## Mastermind

Let's make it a GTG.....

LMAO


----------



## blsnelling

GTG, Christmas Day at Randy's house. A 9 course meal will be provided for all. Free saws will be given to everyone, lol


----------



## Mastermind

Oh my goodness.....


----------



## Ymountainman

Id love to shack hands with the Monkey!!


----------



## Fire8

blsnelling said:


> GTG, Christmas Day at Randy's house. A 9 course meal will be provided for all. Free saws will be given to everyone, lol



Tenn bound haha


----------



## Officer's Match

I'm not going if there's not pie.


----------



## morewood

blsnelling said:


> It would have to be a short one, lol!




By state rules here in NC we would be required to put a harness on all those who could hurt themselves or otherslaugh:all of you), and even then we can only hold approximately 13 people.......ask me how I know By the way, the fuel mileage sucks and it's governed to 45, it would be a long trip for some. I'll drive!!

Shea

PS-There is enough room at the back of the bus for plenty of saws and related gear.


----------



## Buffhunter

blsnelling said:


> GTG, Christmas Day at Randy's house. A 9 course meal will be provided for all. Free saws will be given to everyone, lol




ILL BE THERE!!!!!


----------



## Ironworker

Road trip, nice, I'll have to work on my accent.


----------



## LowVolt

Brad pick me up!


----------



## tree monkey

blsnelling said:


> GTG, Christmas Day at Randy's house. A 9 course meal will be provided for all. Free saws will be given to everyone, lol


thats very generous of you brad. a new ms 661 for everyone that shows up!


----------



## mdavlee

tree monkey said:


> thats very generous of you brad. a new ms 661 for everyone that shows up!



Just what I wanted. I'll even bring pie if I'm getting a 661opcorn:


----------



## bryanr2

mdavlee said:


> I'm coming to visit hopefully before this saw leaves there.



I wanta ride to. Holler at me when yall are going up. I gotta see this 661 in the flesh.


----------



## Tnshaker

I live just at the bottom of the mountain so I can be there in about 45 minutes....lol


----------



## tree monkey

bryanr2 said:


> I wanta ride to. Holler at me when yall are going up. I gotta see this 661 in the flesh.


put your clothes on, nobody wants to see that


----------



## blsnelling

tree monkey said:


> thats very generous of you brad. a new ms 661 for everyone that shows up!


I thought you said that you were providing the saws, since Randy was providing the meal. You backing out now?opcorn:


----------



## Tnshaker

Poor randy....he was just trying to port a saw and now we are all talking about coming over for Christmas.......hope he is a good cook!


----------



## tree monkey

blsnelling said:


> GTG, Christmas Day at Randy's house. A 9 course meal will be provided for all. Free ms661'swill be given to everyone, lol


you posted it not me


----------



## treesmith

Can you stop by Melbourne on the way through?


----------



## Duane(Pa)

I just LOVE the interweb, now I have something to look forward to! Thanks for the INVITE. I decided to charter a bus so my friends can get free food and saws too. Thanks again, this is just so cool!


----------



## LowVolt

Free food? Free saws?!!

It's a Christmas miracle! 

If providing the free 661's is going to hurt someone financially, try looking in Stihl's corporate headquarters dumpster. They might have few thousand recalled units tossed in there. Hahaha!!!


----------



## blsnelling

Hey Randy...have I sufficiently derailed your thread?


----------



## ELECT6845

Can me and Young get an invite? I always travel with my co-pilot/navigator.


----------



## LowVolt

ELECT6845 said:


> Can me and Young get an invite? I always travel with my co-pilot/navigator.



The more the merrier! It kinda sucks though, we are getting free saws but no one has said anything about bars and chains to go with. I will be pizzed if I don't gat a bar and chain!


----------



## ELECT6845

Why don't we have any winter gtg's? I thought that is when your suppose to cut wood. WHEN ITS COLD!


----------



## blsnelling

LowVolt said:


> The more the merrier! It kinda sucks though, we are getting free saws but no one has said anything about bars and chains to go with. I will be pizzed if I don't gat a bar and chain!


 I thought you said that you were providing 36" ES Light bars for everyone


----------



## Tnshaker

Now your talking brad! 36" es light is the only proper bar with a ported 661 to give as a package.


----------



## Duane(Pa)

OK, what kind of oil should we run in our new saws? And then what kind of pie are we getting to eat. Can I borrow your truck to haul some stone?


----------



## tree monkey

hows the song go?
santa looks alot like brad or brad looks alot like him


----------



## tree monkey

Duane(Pa) said:


> OK, what kind of oil should we run in our new saws? And then what kind of pie are we getting to eat. Can I borrow your truck to haul some stone?


drain iol
peecon
no


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Officer's Match said:


> I'm not going if there's not pie.


I bet all he has is cookies


----------



## blsnelling

A years supply of Gary Goo will be provide for all saws.


----------



## LowVolt

Tnshaker said:


> Now your talking brad! 36" es light is the only proper bar with a ported 661 to give as a package.



Now they are going to be ported too! Wow! 

So I am bringing the bars? Ok, I will be right back. I need to see if someone giving away a 100 or so 36" es light bars in Terry's Christmas giveaway thread.


----------



## tree monkey

randy is going to have a hard time getting those done in time,


----------



## Nuzzy

So, I had to swing by my local Stihl shop tonight to grab a part for my 046; figured I might as well ask if they'd had their hands on a 661 yet...




661 R in the wild. Damn this is a sexy saw!














Oh how I wish I had $1320 in my wallet


----------



## LowVolt




----------



## bryanr2

Are those pics photo shopped?- bc I can't imagine that a saw could look that perfect.

During windshield time today, I had convinced myself that I don't need another 90cc saw, and cannot justify. Leave it to someone to post some pics and completely take the voice of reason out of the equation. Now I can't see how I could possibly be happy without one.  Sign me up!


----------



## DexterDay

OMG..... That wrap model is one sexy beast!


----------



## LowVolt

Too bad it is recalled....

Take off the clutch cover, 3/4 wrap and spikes before they send it back.

Damn that saw is Big Mouth Billy Bass, BADASS!


----------



## LegDeLimber

blsnelling said:


> Hey Randy...have I sufficiently derailed your thread?



I believe if you had a caravan of wood trailers lining up, that would get it a bit more off the tracks.
Seems I keep readin' 'bout how He ain't got any logs around.
won't be anything to cook over without 'em.


----------



## shootingarts

Just so happens I was just offered twenty-five to thirty-five acres of logs, still on the hoof I'm afraid. Pass by South Louisiana on the way to Tennessee and I'll supply the logs!

Hu


----------



## LegDeLimber

maybe one day I'll catch a break in the change pocket and get to ride out for a GTG.

Guess I'll have to just continue to live vicariously through
the web.


----------



## Nuzzy

LowVolt said:


> Too bad it is recalled....
> 
> Take off the clutch cover, 3/4 wrap and spikes before they send it back.
> 
> Damn that saw is Big Mouth Billy Bass, BADASS!




I asked them if they had to send it back (it wasn't on the sales floor). He said nope, it wasn't going anywhere. I, for one, support that man's decision  He was just hoping to sell the 660 on the shelf first.

He echoed what many have said, that Stihl is pretty tight lipped about these things. He mentioned the story he'd heard was a problem with some Australian saws and something about not being able to pinpoint where in the SN range it happened, hence the wider scale recall covering that potential range.


----------



## windthrown

A bad batch in Oz? Heh heh heh... everywhere the Stihl shops are saying they are bad someplace else. Not in Germany, not in the UK, not in the states...

Good to see them showing up in the PNW though. What size bar does that have on it? I want one of those bar covers for my 28 inch...


----------



## MCW

Stihlman441 said:


> This is the big questsoin,at what point in bar lenght will the ported 661C pull away from a ported 461.
> My ported 461 will kill a stock 660 with a 28'' bar.
> So what im saying is is it worth getting a ported 661,but i assume with a 36'' bar then things change ?.



A ported 661 will pull away from a ported 461 with any bar length. You just have to lean on it harder, gear it up with a bigger sprocket, or get more aggressive with your chains. If you let a saw "self feed" or cut on it's own then you'll probably find that the 461 will be a tad faster in small wood. I'm yet to see a similarly modified small saw outcut a large saw once you put a bit of muscle into it in any sized wood above 6". 

Your ported 461 should flog a stock 660. If it didn't I'd get your money back


----------



## MCW

Nuzzy said:


> He mentioned the story he'd heard was a problem with some Australian saws.



Slap that guy. The 661's haven't even been released in Australia yet.


----------



## MCW

bryanr2 said:


> Stihl doesn't usually go backwards on new releases. If they are marketing the 661 as the replacement of the 660 (and not just another model in the lineup) then we have every reason to believe they are onto something with it.
> 260<261, 261<261cm, 441<441cm, 460<461, 660?661. The only one they went backwards on is the 361>362. I'd say it will respond very well- well enough to triumph over the 660. The only question is can it hang with a 395xp. 395xp has owned the top spot in the 90+cc bracket for a long time.



200T to the 201T was the biggest step back they made.


----------



## XSKIER

MCW said:


> 200T to the 201T was the biggest step back they made.



We'll have to wash your mouth out with soap when the MS 201 T C-M comes along.


----------



## XSKIER

I really like the windowed dawgs. Does anyone know if they'll fit a MS 441 R C-M?


----------



## Locust Cutter

I WANT ONE!!!!!. Darn. That OR a 395?!?!?!?!? Decisions.


----------



## PA Dan

blsnelling said:


> It would have to be a short one, lol!



Make sure the bus goes through Pittsburgh I know there's a couple of us that want on! 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


----------



## Nuzzy

windthrown said:


> A bad batch in Oz? Heh heh heh... everywhere the Stihl shops are saying they are bad someplace else. Not in Germany, not in the UK, not in the states...




 Ain't that the truth.




windthrown said:


> What size bar does that have on it? I want one of those bar covers for my 28 inch...




I didn't pull the cover all the way off, but it felt like a 36 to me.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

PA Dan said:


> Make sure the bus goes through Pittsburgh I know there's a couple of us that want on!
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


I think we would have to find a bus stop a little further south dan


----------



## PA Dan

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I think we would have to find a bus stop a little further south dan


Ok so we will have a short road trip or maybe we would just have to get our own bus!


----------



## windthrown

MCW said:


> 200T to the 201T was the biggest step back they made.


 
You nailed that one! They also went bass akward on the 291, 311 and 391. The 291 is also ridiculously priced as well. May as well get a 261 for not a lot more. Though in the UK they trash talk the 261 on the tree butcher sites, and prefer the 026!!! The 211 is also >way way better> than the 210 (even with the stamped rod).


----------



## morewood

bryanr2 said:


> Are those pics photo shopped?- bc I can't imagine that a saw could look that perfect.
> 
> During windshield time today, I had convinced myself that I don't need another 90cc saw, and cannot justify. Leave it to someone to post some pics and completely take the voice of reason out of the equation. Now I can't see how I could possibly be happy without one.  Sign me up!


 
I have to agree, those are the best looking flippy caps I've ever seen

Shea


----------



## morewood

LegDeLimber said:


> maybe one day I'll catch a break in the change pocket and get to ride out for a GTG.
> 
> Guess I'll have to just continue to live vicariously through
> the web.


 
If you can make it to Old Fort we always go over to Terry's GTG.

Shea

PS-Randy always brings his latest and greatest toys.


----------



## Jimmy in NC

morewood said:


> If you can make it to Old Fort we always go over to Terry's GTG.
> 
> Shea
> 
> PS-Randy always brings his latest and greatest toys.


Heck I could pick you two up on the way from Raleigh. Three that's almost a bus load right?


----------



## CR500

Nuzzy said:


> So, I had to swing by my local Stihl shop tonight to grab a part for my 046; figured I might as well ask if they'd had their hands on a 661 yet...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 661 R in the wild. Damn this is a sexy saw!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh how I wish I had $1320 in my wallet


I think this saw has taken my breath away..... Hopefully I will have the coin in the next year. 1320 is not to bad I think?


----------



## Nuzzy

CR500 said:


> I think this saw has taken my breath away..... Hopefully I will have the coin in the next year. 1320 is not to bad I think?




I don't think it's a bad price, especially considering the bar it was packaged with. He was selling it for $140 (if memory serves) more than the 660 on the shelf. Unfortunately for me, I saw as hobby and source of enjoyment, not as a means of income. Thus, I can't justify the expense with three little girls in daycare!  As soon as they hit school age though...


----------



## LowVolt

Nuzzy said:


> I don't think it's a bad price, especially considering the bar it was packaged with. He was selling it for $140 (if memory serves) more than the 660 on the shelf. Unfortunately for me, I saw as hobby and source of enjoyment, not as a means of income. Thus, I can't justify the expense with three little girls in daycare!  As soon as they hit school age though...



I hear ya man! I just got a 3 month old and feeling the pinch. What you have to do is sell off some of your keeper saws to afford the big dog. Right now I am trying to sell my mint 660 and a 200t to get the funds for this bad mama jama.


----------



## nmurph

Well, I quit reading this thread a few days ago and it was on page 15. 10 pages later and we've only seen a few peeks inside the case...come on, Randy. I have a pet gopher that moves faster!!!!!!

Merry Christmas to everyone.


----------



## bryanr2

bump this back to the top where it belongs. 

opcorn:


----------



## Mastermind

Bite me Neal. I've been damn busy. 

Everyone want a piece it seems. 

Timing numbers????

Exhaust: 98
Transfers: 123 - 128
Intake: 81

Now get this........the bore is 56mm, and the stroke is 37mm.

Working on the machine work now. I'm taking my wife out tonight.......I don't wanna hear no **** about it either.


----------



## redbull660

if mama aint happy no one happy!


----------



## Mastermind

Welp, Millie, Jon, and the grandkids are gonna go look at some Christmas lights. That's makes for a good time for the little wife and I to slip off alone.


----------



## 7sleeper

Mastermind said:


> Welp, Millie, Jon, and the grandkids are gonna go look at some Christmas lights. That's makes for a good time for the little wife and I to slip off alone.


Naughty, naughty, naughty...... 

7


----------



## Eccentric

Mastermind said:


> Welp, Millie, Jon, and the grandkids are gonna go look at some Christmas lights. That's makes for a good time for the little wife and I to slip off alone.







My apologies to your lady. Couldn't find any "old man asleep with woman" pics (google search) that didn't have an old woman (or a dog) in them.






Enjoy your evening my friend.


----------



## Eccentric

CR500 said:


> I think this saw has taken my breath away..... Hopefully I will have the coin in the next year. $1320 is not to bad I think?



I think I'd rather get a brand spankin' new 2188 (ported) from/through MasterMind or Terry. Could probably also get a nice 32" Total bar with it for that price.

Sorry for the derail. Back to waitin' on Randy to have a 'productive' evening with his better 1/2...............and then put some more 661 teaser pics.


----------



## big t double

Mastermind said:


> .........
> Now get this........the bore is 56mm, and the stroke is 37mm.
> ..........



so a larger bore and shorter stroke than a 660...does this drastically affect how it gets ported? only ask because im stupid.


----------



## Mastermind

It should make it handle poor fuel a little better......but that's all I can see. 

The engineers that build these things are smart........real smart. They make me slow down and really look things over when I see a big change like this.


----------



## mdavlee

That's almost a copy of the 395 specs. The stroke on it is 38mm if I remember right.


----------



## ELECT6845

Good you seem a little grouchy here lately.


----------



## Stihl working hard

bootboy said:


> This post was the worst part of my day





Mastermind said:


> Welp, Millie, Jon, and the grandkids are gonna go look at some Christmas lights. That's makes for a good time for the little wife and I to slip off alone.


happy wife happy life


----------



## Buffhunter

You can doooo it Randy!!!!! You can do it allll night longgg!!!!!


----------



## ernurse

Have a good night Randy...you deserve it. After all it's only a saw that we can't even get yet.


----------



## bryanr2

Eccentric said:


> I think I'd rather get a brand spankin' new 2188 (ported) from/through MasterMind or Terry. Could probably also get a nice 32" Total bar with it for that price.
> 
> Sorry for the derail. Back to waitin' on Randy to have a 'productive' evening with his better 1/2...............and then put some more 661 teaser pics.



I like a 2188. I have a W model. Looking forward to seeing how they all stack up in "my hands" soon.


----------



## wap13

Mastermind said:


> Bite me Neal. I've been damn busy.
> 
> Everyone want a piece it seems.
> 
> Timing numbers????
> 
> Exhaust: 98
> Transfers: 123 - 128
> Intake: 81
> 
> Now get this........the bore is 56mm, and the stroke is 37mm.
> 
> Working on the machine work now. I'm taking my wife out tonight.......I don't wanna hear no **** about it either.



So its 91.1 cc's on the 661 vs 91.6 on the 660, or is my math off?


----------



## HuskStihl

Hmmmm, spring AV.....a more over square cylinder..... That usually means better RPM's/hp at the expense of torque.....I can't put my finger on it, but it's reminding me of something.....


----------



## mdavlee

HuskStihl said:


> Hmmmm, spring AV.....a more over square cylinder..... That usually means better RPM's/hp at the expense of torque.....I can't put my finger on it, but it's reminding me of something.....



Sounds like a husky


----------



## nmurph

mdavlee said:


> Sounds like a husky



You didn't just go there??????


----------



## mdavlee

nmurph said:


> You didn't just go there??????



I did. I wondered why they did it and not keep the stroke the same to be at 94cc like the 395. It doesn't seem to need any more cc to whip the snot out of a 390 as is


----------



## HuskStihl

nmurph said:


> You didn't just go there??????


Oh no he dint.... Two snaps up!


----------



## shootingarts

Mastermind said:


> It should make it handle poor fuel a little better......but that's all I can see.
> 
> The engineers that build these things are smart........real smart. They make me slow down and really look things over when I see a big change like this.




Randy,

No rush at all but if and when you get time I'd appreciate an explanation of the shorter stroke handling poor fuel better in a two cycle, I'm trying very hard to understand these little beasts. The reasons for going to a longer stroke compared to the bore in cars and light trucks was to deal with pollution issues and the reductions of lead in gas way back when. Before sophisticated computers in the early seventies longer stroke gave the engines more effective dwell time and more room for error or inconsistent conditions. Just as a general statement, the more time something has to happen in a combustion cycle the less critical the timing of everything happening is.

Were this a four stroke engine I would think that the computerized ignition and carb control allowed a more oversquare engine rather than the shorter stroke being a benefit to aid consumption of inferior fuel. No accident that two of my favorite engines, the 289 Ford and 302 Chevy, couldn't be produced in the seventies. The 289 Ford was the most oversquare factory V-8 in any of my manuals and the 302 Chevy was next behind it.

The short stroke big bore four cycles were screamers but they were inefficient and dirty, I loved them! When I was going to run an open wheel class limited to 355CI I was putting a 302 crank in a smallblock 400. I was also planning to turn about a thousand RPM tighter than most of the "standard" 355's. The 661 should be able to turn a good bit tighter than the 660 if the controls let it. That means that it should love to be modded!!

Hu


----------



## Officer's Match

^ Agree, DZ's and MO's were just nasty. I had a '68 Z-28 with a 40 over blue printed 302 with an aluminum flywheel and 456's that was very feared in my town.


----------



## procarbine2k1

mdavlee said:


> Sounds like a husky



Blasphemy!


----------



## mdavlee

procarbine2k1 said:


> Blasphemy!



I guess if they couldn't beat it they would copy it and paint in white and orange

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


----------



## HuskStihl

I was funnin' with my earlier post, but that saw (at least on paper) could easily feel like a really strong (and really expensive) 390. 300 bucks less gets u a new ported 2188 from some other TN builder. Just sayin'


----------



## Mastermind

Hu, From what I've studied on combustion chamber design, dwell time, and detonation.....it appears that the guys at Stihl have been reading the same stuff. 

They have designed the quench area with a wide, flat band.....quite a lot wider than the 660. That in itself helps with detonation resistance. Then the shorter stroke allow dwell time to be shorter......again, that should make the engine more tolerant of detonation.......which is why I said it should handle poor fuel better.


----------



## nmurph

Finished with the Mizzuz?


----------



## blsnelling

nmurph said:


> Finished with the Mizzuz?


Is the Mizzuz finished with him?


----------



## Mastermind

nmurph said:


> Finished with the Mizzuz?



For now......we had an excellent meal, and titillating conversation.......


----------



## shootingarts

Mastermind said:


> Hu, From what I've studied on combustion chamber design, dwell time, and detonation.....it appears that the guys at Stihl have been reading the same stuff.
> 
> They have designed the quench area with a wide, flat band.....quite a lot wider than the 660. That in itself helps with detonation resistance. Then the shorter stroke allow dwell time to be shorter......again, that should make the engine more tolerant of detonation.......which is why I said it should handle poor fuel better.




Thanks! I'm always thinking about more than just detonation with fuel, the four cycle racing background. Total package might indeed be to help cover fuel. Wonder if Stihl is at least thinking they will have to be dealing with E-85 not too far down the road? Like I mentioned earlier, their designers ain't dummies, just having to meet different demands. May be hard to feel seat of the pants with the smoother performance but regardless of why they shortened the stroke and opened the bore I think this thing is gonna like modding more than the 660 it replaces.

I need to quit reading this thread, I need a new wood lathe next on my list of priorities. I don't need a 661, I don't need a 661, I don't need a 661, I don't need . . . .

Thanks again for the response, much appreciated. I will finger out these things eventually! "Fingering" is a legit word for me, a combination of figuring things out and hammering on whatever I am working on until it assumes the position! 

Hu


----------



## Saw Dr.

LowVolt said:


> If providing the free 661's is going to hurt someone financially, try looking in Stihl's corporate headquarters dumpster. They might have few thousand recalled units tossed in there. Hahaha!!!



Sorry, the Husky guys came and cleaned it out already. They had a roll of 391xp stickers and some grey spray paint waiting in the truck.


----------



## LegDeLimber

morewood said: ↑

“If you can make it to Old Fort we always go over to Terry's GTG.

Shea

PS-Randy always brings his latest and greatest toys.




Jimmy in NC said:


> Heck I could pick you two up on the way from Raleigh. Three that's almost a bus load right?



Sounds awfully tempting. 
I guess i need to get my **** straightened out and see about getting to some stuff like this.


----------



## hotjava66

Eccentric said:


> I think I'd rather get a brand spankin' new 2188 (ported) from/through MasterMind or Terry. Could probably also get a nice 32" Total bar with it for that price.
> 
> Sorry for the derail. Back to waitin' on Randy to have a 'productive' evening with his better 1/2...............and then put some more 661 teaser pics.


Got myself that identical setup for Christmas, don't tell the wife though


----------



## windthrown

mdavlee said:


> Sounds like a husky


 



Never underestimate the power of the_ dark saws_!


----------



## chadihman

Ok Randy the new 661 muffler is on it's way to 140 Cottle Ln. The 661 muffler is SS and is $88 list. My price was cost but wow I can get two AM car mufflers for that price. Do what you want with the muffler Randy and consider it a Christmas gift as it will show up Christmas eve. Santa saw your good deeds on all the work you put into the raffle saws and all. 

Whats your plan and were you at with the 661 by now?


----------



## Mastermind

I've got it back together......I went ahead and modded this muffler.


----------



## Mastermind

The transfers got raised up to the card stock....





Of course it spent some time in the lathe....





Drilled out that weird looking baffle.....


----------



## mdavlee

So how's it run?


----------



## Mastermind

mdavlee said:


> So how's it run?



I ain't started it yet.


----------



## mdavlee

Give me 3 hours and charge the spotlight


----------



## Mastermind

It's just another saw.....


----------



## chadihman

Can't tell how much on the transfers but looks like maybe your raising them enough to undo the loss from lowering the base. I'll take a guess. .040 off squish .045 off base raised transfers .045


----------



## Mastermind

I raised them to 122 atdc.


----------



## Officer's Match

Mastermind said:


> It's just another saw.....



...and saw's are just a fad...


----------



## bryanr2

mdavlee said:


> Give me 3 hours and charge the spotlight




I'll bring all the light we need.


----------



## Mastermind

You fellers are crazy.


----------



## bryanr2

Hell my name is Steven. And I have CADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!


----------



## mdavlee

Mastermind said:


> You fellers are crazy.



You just now figured this out?


----------



## Trx250r180

I don't want a 661


----------



## chadihman

Mastermind said:


> You fellers are crazy.


Not as crazy as you! You saw fondling monkey.


----------



## chadihman

Trx250r180 said:


> I don't want a 661


+1


----------



## Mastermind

Trx250r180 said:


> I don't want a 661



Oh, so you like your 90cc Stihl slow?


----------



## bryanr2

Trx250r180 said:


> I don't *want* a 661



Me neither. I *NEED* a 661CM.


----------



## DexterDay

bryanr2 said:


> Me neither. I *NEED* a 661CM.



I dislike threads like these.... I don't need a 90cc saw!!! 

I don't need a 90cc saw!!! 





(But.... I sure want another one ) 

Looking Good Randy! Looking Good!!


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> Oh, so you like your 90cc Stihl slow?



for what i use mine for ,the milling ,i am not using all the power i have now ,i get smoothest cuts about 2/3 throttle ,so more power does not help for what i would use it for ,i have not been sold on the coil spring chassis yet also ,and i like my little orange screwdriver ,maybe i need to run one to change my mind ,was really hoping this 661 would be more 461 besides the jug i guess


----------



## chadihman

Yep if I got a 661 it would be a c m


----------



## bryanr2

DexterDay said:


> I dislike threads like these.... I don't need a 90cc saw!!!
> 
> I don't need a 90cc saw!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (But.... I sure want another one )
> 
> Looking Good Randy! Looking Good!!




happiness begins at 87cc. 90cc saws are quickly becoming my favorite class.


----------



## mdavlee

You start throwing them on a mill a 90cc saw doesn't seem so strong.


----------



## Locust Cutter

bryanr2 said:


> happiness begins at 87cc. 90cc saws are quickly becoming my favorite class.



I'd counter (not applicable to you based off of the 2253), that happiness starts with a 346xpNE (although the 2253 and 550 have my undivided attention). I miss my old 660 and will have either a 661 or 395xp (that is unless I stumble upon a very good deal on a 2100cd, 084 or 9010 Dollie) to replace it with as there's no replacement for displacement (power and oil-output). BUT, for sheer productivity in firewood, my old 346 and my 562 right now are the undisputed production champs, until I get into 20' Hedge or 24" anything else, then it's 372 time. I do have access to some Red, Post and Burr Oaks which are 36-50" DBH. That's where the big-boys come in!!!


----------



## Stihl working hard

I can't wait to see the 661 in the cut it's taking a while but I feel it will be well worth it the master is making sure that is right


----------



## bryanr2

Locust Cutter said:


> I'd counter (not applicable to you based off of the 2253), that happiness starts with a 346xpNE (although the 2253 and 550 have my undivided attention). I miss my old 660 and will have either a 661 or 395xp (that is unless I stumble upon a very good deal on a 2100cd, 084 or 9010 Dollie) to replace it with as there's no replacement for displacement (power and oil-output). BUT, for sheer productivity in firewood, my old 346 and my 562 right now are the undisputed production champs, until I get into 20' Hedge or 24" anything else, then it's 372 time. I do have access to some Red, Post and Burr Oaks which are 36-50" DBH. That's where the big-boys come in!!!




You know- I have a particularly mean 2153. But for the wood I cut- I prefer a saw with a little meat on it's bones.


----------



## LowVolt

chadihman said:


> Ok Randy the new 661 muffler is on it's way to 140 Cottle Ln. The 661 muffler is SS and is $88 list. My price was cost but wow I can get two AM car mufflers for that price. Do what you want with the muffler Randy and consider it a Christmas gift as it will show up Christmas eve. Santa saw your good deeds on all the work you put into the raffle saws and all.
> 
> Whats your plan and were you at with the 661 by now?



So did you see a dual port muffler in the ipl?


----------



## Mastermind

LowVolt said:


> So did you see a dual port muffler in the ipl?



I'll love to see that IPL....


----------



## mdavlee

Next time I'm at the stihl dealer I'll see if I can peek at the ipl for the 661. It was there when we were getting some parts for the 660 the other day.


----------



## mdavlee

redbull660 said:


> dude! why didn't you buy it!!!?!?!??!?!?!



They don't have the 661 yet just the ipl on the computer.


----------



## NW.log.cutr

My ported 461 will blow that new saws doors off.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE

A little early for that assumption


----------



## mdavlee

NW.log.cutr said:


> My ported 461 will blow that new saws doors off.



I really doubt it


----------



## HuskStihl

My muffler modded, 32:1 belray running 445 will own bofadem!


----------



## 7sleeper

Don't know if removing the baffle has any effect at all because the opening is very large so it actualy seems to be only directional and not restrictive.

7


----------



## Mastermind

I netted no real gains. Or we dulled the chain since the last video was made.


----------



## mdavlee

Mastermind said:


> I netted no real gains. Or we dulled the chain since the last video was made.



I'm not sure I believe thisopcorn:


----------



## Mastermind

I gained 1 second on the cut time......but I ran the same chain on a Solo 681 yesterday and hit the dirt. Jon is touching up the chain right now. He's sick as a dog.......got the crud. I've been trying to get the shop cleaned up some. Chain maintenance was low on the list.


----------



## mdavlee

You'll have that sometimes.


----------



## Mastermind

After touching up the chain real quick it went about 21 seconds. That's about a 3 second gain, and less than 3 seconds behind the 395XP.


----------



## porsche965

NW.log.cutr said:


> My ported 461 will blow that new saws doors off.



"Beat" and "blowing doors off" are two different things. 20" bar sure, the longer bar you get that's where the 661C starts to really shine. 

For the price difference though the 461 is all the saw most guys would ever need. But AS members aren't most guys lol.

Maybe Randy will concur...the "hand weight and balance" of the 661 feels like a 460/461 to me wearing a 28" bar/chain. The 660 feels heavier.


----------



## Mastermind

That's only about a 12% gain.......

I'm not done playing yet.......this attempt was just sort of a feeling around.


----------



## Mastermind

porsche965 said:


> "Beat" and "blowing doors off" are two different things. 20" bar sure, the longer bar you get that's where the 661C starts to really shine.
> 
> For the price difference though the 461 is all the saw most guys would ever need. But AS members aren't most guys lol.
> 
> Maybe Randy will concur...the "hand weight and balance" of the 661 feels like a 460/461 to me wearing a 28" bar/chain. The 660 feels heavier.



The 661 does feel like a much smaller saw than the 660.


----------



## Mastermind




----------



## porsche965

Good start Randy. Lot's more to go.


----------



## Mastermind

porsche965 said:


> Good start Randy. Lot's more to go.



I normally get a lot more on my first try. I hope I ain't getting senile.


----------



## Fire8

I don't want a 661 because anymore if it's bigger then your 650 will cut I'm not cutting it period I'm getting to old.


----------



## chadihman

You doing all these mods without a dyno is buggin the chit out of me Randy. Any plans to be in Va or Md. Anytime soon? I don't want any payment till you run at least 25 runs on it and like it.


----------



## Mastermind

I really ain't that sold on the dyno.....


----------



## chadihman

Mastermind said:


> I really ain't that sold on the dyno.....



I'm Ok with that What changed your mind?opcorn:


----------



## Mastermind

If you could find some way to eliminate the hoses and fittings to be sure they weren't causing deflection I would trust it's readings more. The way it's set up though, having to twist the hoses makes me wonder.


----------



## bootboy

Next time you have that jug off, I'd love to see some more pics of the port work.


----------



## Mastermind

bootboy said:


> Next time you have that jug off, I'd love to see some more pics of the port work.




Deal. I'm gonna go back in and take a little more from, and tighten the squish a little.


----------



## Philbert

Mastermind said:


> The 661 does feel like a much smaller saw than the 660.



'Smaller' as in 'less powerful', I am assuming?

Philbert

P.S. - don't wan't to start an oil thread, but when did you add "*Saws used at mix ratios of less than 40:1 will not be covered by Mastermind Worksaws"* to your signature?


----------



## chadihman

Mastermind said:


> If you could find some way to eliminate the hoses and fittings to be sure they weren't causing deflection I would trust it's readings more. The way it's set up though, having to twist the hoses makes me wonder.


I changed that a while ago. The hyd needle valve is now mounted to the pump and there's no pressure in the flexible hoses to straighten them out. Ill get some more run time and video's of the dyno. Enough already. Sorry to hack your thread man.


----------



## Trx250r180

still single port on the muffler ?


----------



## Metals406

I say that video is fake! Clearly that's a really well carved and airbrushed block of Styrofoam to make it look like a log!!

Now we know what took so long to make a video!



Sent using a miniature supercomputer.


----------



## chadihman

LowVolt said:


> So did you see a dual port muffler in the ipl?


Nope


----------



## Locust Cutter

Now I'm going to have to test drive one of these. I was pretty much set on the 395, but I an open to browsing a bit...


----------



## chadihman

Mastermind said:


> I really ain't that sold on the dyno.....


I really ain't that sold on the ported 661.......


----------



## Mastermind

Trx250r180 said:


> still single port on the muffler ?



Yep, still a single port. When the muffler Chad is sending gets here I'll try some different stuff with that. 



chadihman said:


> I really ain't that sold on the ported 661.......



Well at this point, that makes two of us.


----------



## treesmith

Mastermind said:


> Yep, still a single port. When the muffler Chad is sending gets here I'll try some different stuff with that.
> 
> 
> 
> Well at this point, that makes two of us.



Dear santa..........


----------



## wigglesworth

chadihman said:


> I really ain't that sold on the ported 661.......





Mastermind said:


> Well at this point, that makes two of us.



I've thought about this saw all afternoon....


----------



## Mastermind

wigglesworth said:


> I've thought about this saw all afternoon....



I've been in a sweatlodge cooking my brain......


----------



## redbull660

opcorn:


----------



## LowVolt

wigglesworth said:


> I've thought about this saw all afternoon....



And..........


----------



## Eccentric

*3*
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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.
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_*9*_
.
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*5*
.
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_*X*_
.
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.
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.
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.
.
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.
.
_*P*_
_**_


----------



## chadihman

I've been thinking also. Stihl has done there homework. The tight crankcase, quad port transfers, open muffler and the piston stuffer make it a bad azz saw without much left to squeeze out.


----------



## Mastermind

chadihman said:


> I've been thinking also. Stihl has done there homework. The tight crankcase, quad port transfers, open muffler and the piston stuffer make it a bad azz saw without much left to squeeze out.



That may be true. Or, I might have approached it all wrong.


----------



## Trx250r180

I think treeslinger said a while back madsons got 1 more hp out of a 661 in another 661 thread,i think randy can beat that # when all said and done


----------



## Eccentric

Trx250r180 said:


> I think treeslinger said a while back madsons got 1 more hp out of a 661 in another 661 thread,i think randy can beat that # when all said and done



How did Madsens measure that gain? Do they have a dyno?


----------



## AKDoug

Eccentric said:


> How did Madsens measure that gain? Do they have a dyno?


Yes, they have a dyno.


----------



## Stihl working hard

NW.log.cutr said:


> My ported 461 will blow that new saws doors off.


As stated by other AS members a 20" bar on both the 461 and the 661 may be true but you put a 36" bar on a 461 and a 661 and then you will see a difference remember there is no replacement for displacement


----------



## northmanlogging

God's damnit, I just bought an 066, Now I'm going to need a 661... Thought things where hunky dory with the 046/460 then randy opened up a 461, now I have two of em...

And yes the 461 is a bad ass right up until you put a 36" bar on it then it looses to the 066, mostly do to low oil and a smaller clutch rim IMO.


----------



## Mastermind

I'm still trying to figure out the right way to go on porting this one. I've not got it figured out yet by any means.....


----------



## bryanr2

I've been reviewing this thread watching and re-watching the videos. I've done it enough for my wife to realize it's the same thread/saw from a passing glance walking by. Last night she asked me "Is that the one you want now?" I played it cool and talked it up like a pro. She gave me "0" opposition and just said "well this comes at a good time cause there's something I want to." I replied, "Deal!" without a moments hesitation. Since I have permission now, I just need Randy to come thru with the port work and give me "just cause" to need one in my collection.


----------



## DexterDay

bryanr2 said:


> I've been reviewing this thread watching and re-watching the videos. I've done it enough for my wife to realize it's the same thread/saw from a passing glance walking by. Last night she asked me "Is that the one you want now?" I played it cool and talked it up like a pro. She gave me "0" opposition and just said "well this comes at a good time cause there's something I want to." I replied, "Deal!" without a moments hesitation. Since I have permission now, I just need Randy to come thru with the port work and give me "just cause" to need one in my collection.



Nice. Always good to have the wife on board!!


----------



## Mastermind

Someone said Madsens got an extra HP out of this saw.......that's just a 13% increase. Not enough for me to call it good.


----------



## bryanr2

40% or bust! That's what we've come to expect.


----------



## Mastermind

The real discussion about this saw is happening somewhere else.


----------



## bryanr2

on my way.


----------



## DexterDay

Feeling left out...


----------



## chadihman

Those guys are mean fluckers over there.


----------



## bryanr2

Ah "you've been(hit), The gettin up is up to you" ( Michael Douglas quote in "The Ghost and the Darkness"


----------



## shootingarts

bryanr2 said:


> Ah "you've been(hit), The gettin up is up to you" ( Michael Douglas quote in "The Ghost and the Darkness"



One post thread derailment, if you haven't read it already try to find "The Maneaters of Tsalvo" if I remember the title correctly. A very old book that the movie was based on and seemingly unintentionally one of the funniest books I ever read. How many people have ever approached a rhino on foot and shot it in the butt with a .303, then thought this was so entertaining that they did it again! In case anybody wonders, no rhinos were harmed on that occasion, or maybe as much as a fly bite at most.

Hu


----------



## HuskStihl

Mastermind said:


> Someone said Madsens got an extra HP out of this saw.......that's just a 13% increase. Not enough for me to call it good.


And, a 13% gain in power will probably not make a saw 13% faster through a log.


----------



## HuskStihl

Somewhere else takes too much time to sift through the poop jokes to get any real information.

_Tom Wolfe is speaking at the Lincoln center tonight.......well of course we're going to throw poo at him _


----------



## Mastermind

At least the ****ing notifications work like they should there.


----------



## blsnelling

HuskStihl said:


> Somewhere else takes too much time to sift through the poop jokes to get any real information.
> 
> _Tom Wolfe is speaking at the Lincoln center tonight.......well of course we're going to throw poo at him _


 Agreed. I went through the last several pages and didn't see one post about the saw. I gave up.


----------



## Mastermind

There are a couple of pages in there somewhere about it.


----------



## LowVolt

Mastermind said:


> At least the ****ing notifications work like they should there.



And where are the pictures on old threads ported over from the old software? Arrrghhh!


----------



## Mastermind

No one seems to really care about the issues Rory.....that is what chaps my ass.


----------



## VinceGU05

hook up a back pack leaf blower and run it with forced air induction. lol


----------



## Mastermind

Knocking 3 seconds off the cut time ain't too bad. I can do much better though. 

I'm taking a break till after Christmas. My dog died a few days ago, and I've been in a real snarley mood.......I need a little time off.


----------



## HuskStihl

I did see you were getting a new cylinder. Did you get a chance to bump the compression and advance the timing more? Could the gains be limited by the carbs capabilities?
Just talkin'


Typed that before I saw u'r last post. Sorry and Merry Christmas


----------



## LowVolt

Mastermind said:


> No one seems to really care about the issues Rory.....that is what chaps my ass.



Well in the chainsaw FAQ thread I don't think any of the links work in that thread. Now I checked my ms261 h limiter removal thread and I don't see any if my pictures. My thread is useless without them. That is why I asked about the databases. What a mess! All that info just, poofff! Gone like a fart in the wind.


----------



## Stihlman441

LowVolt said:


> Well in the chainsaw FAQ thread I don't think any of the links work in that thread. Now I checked my ms261 h limiter removal thread and I don't see any if my pictures. My thread is useless without them. That is why I asked about the databases. What a mess! All that info just, poofff! Gone like a fart in the wind.


 
Yep same here.


----------



## Mastermind

LowVolt said:


> Well in the chainsaw FAQ thread I don't think any of the links work in that thread. Now I checked my ms261 h limiter removal thread and I don't see any if my pictures. My thread is useless without them. That is why I asked about the databases. What a mess! All that info just, poofff! Gone like a fart in the wind.



The really cool pics in the Art Martin thread are all gone too.


----------



## Mastermind

HuskStihl said:


> I did see you were getting a new cylinder. Did you get a chance to bump the compression and advance the timing more? Could the gains be limited by the carbs capabilities?
> Just talkin'
> 
> 
> Typed that before I saw u'r last post. Sorry and Merry Christmas



The carbs on the M/T saws have no trouble keeping up. Yes I did raise compression, but not much. The intake was so low already, I hated to drop the jug too much. With the small case volume and short stroke, I wonder if a long blowdown might have been the ticket. I have some Devcon, and will use some epoxy to test a few ideas before I grind on the next jug.


----------



## LowVolt

Mastermind said:


> The really cool pics in the Art Martin thread are all gone too.



*fart*

Buh bye!


----------



## HuskStihl

Mastermind said:


> The carbs on the M/T saws have no trouble keeping up. Yes I did raise compression, but not much. The intake was so low already, I hated to drop the jug too much. With the small case volume and short stroke, I wonder if a long blowdown might have been the ticket. I have some Devcon, and will use some epoxy to test a few ideas before I grind on the next jug.


Pop-up?


----------



## mdavlee

HuskStihl said:


> Pop-up?



Welding a pop up would be the only option to not lower the jug any more.


----------



## Mastermind

I have the squish at .024 now. Tightening it to .018 would make a pretty big difference and only drop the jug .006


----------



## Stihl working hard

Mastermind said:


> Knocking 3 seconds off the cut time ain't too bad. I can do much better though.
> 
> I'm taking a break till after Christmas. My dog died a few days ago, and I've been in a real snarley mood.......I need a little time off.


Sorry to hear about your dog they really are mans best friend also merry Christmas to you and your family thanks for all of your posts this year I've really enjoyed them


----------



## Metals406

Mastermind said:


> At least the ****ing notifications work like they should there.



Ohhhh burn!!!!! :-O

Sent using a miniature supercomputer.


----------



## Metals406

Mastermind said:


> Knocking 3 seconds off the cut time ain't too bad. I can do much better though.
> 
> I'm taking a break till after Christmas. My dog died a few days ago, and I've been in a real snarley mood.......I need a little time off.



Sorry bout yer dog Randy. :-(

Sent using a miniature supercomputer.


----------



## morewood

Why are you still typing while on break? Throw out the old, slow, frumpy computer. Go in the house, enjoy the family. There isn't a thing wrong with a man taking a break from a job that apparently takes up more than half of his day, every day. Just a couple more days until Christmas!! 

Shea

PS-I promise we can handle the wait until more intel comes back on the 661 and your pursuit of power.


----------



## Mastermind

I'm in the house......studying knots. I'm gonna climb trees to relax.


----------



## LowVolt

Mastermind said:


> I'm in the house......studying knots. I'm gonna climb trees to relax.



Climb just to climb and check out the view or climb to cut?


----------



## Mastermind

I plan to remove some trees beside my house......but will start just climbing for fun.


----------



## morewood

Relaxing....that's what I'm talking about. The only reason I'm even up is I'm waiting for the plumbing fixes to cure a little bit before I test them. Plumbing ain't relaxing by the way. Hopefully I'm done plumbing for a few days. Ropes? Knots? My son don't use none of them, but then again he doesn't go to far up.

Shea


----------



## treesmith

Sorry to hear that Randy, that sucks 
Maybe you could do a thread on climbing and pruning with a .45.....?


----------



## blsnelling

I didn't know you'd lost your dog, Randy. Our little guy is one of the family. I can't imagine losing him. I'm truly sorry for your loss.


----------



## Mastermind

blsnelling said:


> I didn't know you'd lost your dog, Randy. Our little guy is one of the family. I can't imagine losing him. I'm truly sorry for your loss.



I didn't think a lot about it.....at first. Then I just kept getting in a darker and darker mood. I realized I had to take some time and talk about it.


----------



## bootboy

Mastermind said:


> I didn't think a lot about it.....at first. Then I just kept getting in a darker and darker mood. I realized I had to take some time and talk about it.




Honestly, sometimes you take them for granted but when you lose them, it's like losing a best friend or family member. When I lost my dog a few years ago, I was kinda in denial at first, but after a few days it really hit me. For about a week, not a day went by that I didn't have a painful moment in which I shed tears for my fallen friend. She was my #1. Being a bachelor at the time, she was the warm friend I came home to. When she died, I was really lonely and ended up spending a lot more time at my families place because it was hard to be alone.

No shame in taking the time to mourn the loss of a faithful friend. They never judge you, they unfailingly loyal, and live to serve you. A good dog is more worthy of salvation than many people if you ask me. They are an inspired gift given to man to keep us company, teach us selfless service, loyalty, forgiveness, hard work, and friendship. Dogs are better teachers of these Christlike qualities than any human. Friends indeed. 

My advice randy? 

Get yourself a new puppy.

God bless and merry Christmas


----------



## treesmith

Still can't think about mine


----------



## bryanr2

Mastermind said:


> Knocking 3 seconds off the cut time ain't too bad. I can do much better though.
> 
> I'm taking a break till after Christmas. My dog died a few days ago, and I've been in a real snarley mood.......I need a little time off.



Sorry for your loss.
Im not trying to offend you in any way........ but you know Im a "Dog Man"...... which one was it? Redbone, little mix, or the little beauty yall kept inside? I understand if you dont want to say. Loosing a dog is a horrible experience, I've buried many "best" friends. Never gets easy. My condolences.


----------



## CR888

Sorry to hear about your dog Randy. Thats really sh+*!


----------



## Officer's Match

Lost Cocoa, Baron's sister about this time last year. She was the only creature on earth he feared, which only proves further how wise he is. I just prayed for you and yours Randy.


----------



## sachsmo

Sorry 'bout your loss there OM, 

We lost our Sheltie this Summer.

We be waiting for my Nieces ***** to have 'nother litter.

Last time she only had one pup, we had the pick but the missus thought better to wait fer Spring?

Nieces ol man has some good bloodlines the male is 110 and the ***** is good sized too.


----------



## HuskStihl

One of my least favorite jobs as "Daddy" is my responsibility to take pets to the vet to be put to sleep. My 4 kids collect dogs and cats like crazy, and when it is their time I take them to the vet to be put down. I always cry like a six year old (even when I didn't think I liked the animal), then people make fun of me, which hurts my feelings and makes me cry even more


----------



## sachsmo

Mastermind said:


> I didn't think a lot about it.....at first. Then I just kept getting in a darker and darker mood. I realized I had to take some time and talk about it.




Takes time,

For months I would walk in the door and realize the hair ball wasn't there to greet me.


----------



## Sagetown

Sorry about your loss. I too lost a dear friend; my Bluetick Coonhound; Anney. She loved coonhunting, riding the hay wagon when feeding the cows, and going to the farm feed store in the back of the truck. I buried her on a hill overlooking the ranch, way back near the woods where she loved to hunt.


----------



## hseII

Hate to hear you lost a friend OP.

I thought I wanted a 066 Magnum- how would one of those tuned right hold up against this new 661?

hseII


----------



## zogger

Our very oldest dog just a few days ago completely lost the ability to walk. It has been hit or miss over the past year or so, but lately mostly miss. I just carried her out to the yard to lay in the grass now that it has stopped raining. She can't move at all to do her business now. 

Old white lab, was my late sisters dog she had a long time before us, the dog was a retired service dog of some type and I am not sure how old she is. Fairly good shape until this last year though. 

And yesterday had to retire an old Charolais cow, again, real old, she went down, got her up twice with the help of the hayfork on the tractor, but after overnight, not again.

For everything, there is a season, and that's it.


----------



## sachsmo

Yes SIR,

It will pull your heart out losing a BEST FRIEND.

My condolences to all who feel the pain.

Had to bury my German Shepherd under a shade tree.

He hated the Sun.


----------



## Mastermind

Steven, it was the old black dog......"Blackjack" He just disappeared. I looked for him for days, but we never found him. It would be better if I would have able to give the old guy a proper burial. 

When he was younger, he went everywhere with me. Rode on the four wheeler, boat, dozer.....


----------



## chadihman

Sorry for all those mourning there pet loss. As a kid on the farm we had many pets. My dad always took care of the sick or severely injured ones. The pet would suddenly go missing then I'd figure it out when my dad would come back in the house with gun in hand and a sad look on his face. My dad cried with me the day we buried our blue border Collie. He was a part of the family and an awesome cow herder that we mourned for weeks


----------



## MasterMech

Mastermind said:


> Steven, it was the old black dog......"Blackjack" He just disappeared. I looked for him for days, but we never found him. It would be better if I would have able to give the old guy a proper burial.
> 
> When he was younger, he went everywhere with me. Rode on the four wheeler, boat, dozer.....


Sometimes the dogs natural instinct drives them to disappear before they expire. A sick pup will often avoid human contact as much as possible. Even in their final moments they love us too much to cause us pain. My condolences to Randy and anybody else suffering the loss of a friend.


----------



## bryanr2

I remember you sharing some stories about him on one of my first trips (probably the first one) when I brought Elle Mae (Kari) with me.


----------



## Sagetown

MasterMech said:


> Sometimes the dogs natural instinct drives them to disappear before they expire. A sick pup will often avoid human contact as much as possible. Even in their final moments they love us too much to cause us pain. My condolences to Randy and anybody else suffering the loss of a friend.


 
I've also found this to be true. If give the freedom, many old and ailing dogs which have been loyal companions, will suddenly disappear on their own, never to be seen again.


----------



## bryanr2

[quote="MasterMech, post: 4608353, member: 74211"*]Sometimes the dogs natural instinct drives them to disappear before they expire*. A sick pup will often avoid human contact as much as possible. Even in their final moments they love us too much to cause us pain. My condolences to Randy and anybody else suffering the loss of a friend.[/quote]

That is very true and a comforting point. Even the animals that I have had to participate in their last moments, they show bravery and love right up til the end. When Kari and I had to put my Great Dane down back 4years ago, there were 6 people in the room bc of the size of animal she was but it was pointed out later by Kari that all the way up to her last breath, she never removed her eyes from upon me. She was just a few days shy of 10 which is very old for a Great Dane. Was suffering from bone cancer, and I battled with when it was time- I didnt want her to suffer, but I didnt want to end her life before she was ready. She let me know. I had gotten her as a graduation gift for myself at 18. Brought her home in a little box (all ears and paws). I miss her dearly to this day. Tearing up as I think about her. To her- I was the only thing in the world that mattered.


----------



## wyk

Mastermind said:


> Knocking 3 seconds off the cut time ain't too bad. I can do much better though.
> 
> I'm taking a break till after Christmas. My dog died a few days ago, and I've been in a real snarley mood.......I need a little time off.



Sorry to hear it, Bud. I am a huge dog lover myself. I feel for ya.


----------



## DexterDay

Condolences on the loss of a pet. Lost my German Shepherd last Summer. Miss him daily. 

As for the 661CM? There is one for $1,550 on my CL? Never been ran and has several different sized bars, for you to select from???? Hmmmm?


----------



## shootingarts

I had to have the last of my four legged buddies put down, a dachshund. He had suffered a stroke or fall and was paralyzed. Aside from the indignity he would suffer not able to control bowel and bladder he would be alone eleven hours a day with no way to get food or water.

With no concerns about harming him I gave him large doses of my back medications before taking the hour plus drive to the vet, he was in some pain making me suspect he had jumped off of furniture and landed wrong. By the time we made it to the vet's he was feeling no pain in more ways than one and his usual obnoxious self around strange dogs. He would kick ass on everything in the place if he could just move more than his head!

We had a rough run in our family and I had buried far too many people since the last time I had to bury a dog. I had a handle on sorrow and grief and wasn't going to be silly about a dog that had lived thirteen good years. Yeah, right. The tears poured while I held him in my arms as the vet gave him the shot. I went home, wrapped him very carefully and buried him in a new ice chest, very deeply under a pecan tree where he is unlikely to ever be disturbed.

Not to derail the thread derailment, but Randy didn't you whittle a little piece off of something in this engine making a small design change? Seems like I remember the design having a protrusion somewhere you whittled off. Not sure and there are too many pages to go back through to try to find it, especially when I just found about fifty more pages to read on this same build! Anyway, when you get back to the saw, might think about that. Might be something, might not be, the manufacturers have flow benches and ain't big on extra headaches and expenses they don't need.

Hu


----------



## bryanr2

DexterDay said:


> Condolences on the loss of a pet. Lost my German Shepherd last Summer. Miss him daily.
> 
> As for the 661CM? There is one for $1,550 on my CL? Never been ran and has several different sized bars, for you to select from???? Hmmmm?



Are you interested in another GSD? My MIL neighbor had one tied up in her backyard with no doghouse. MIL was feeding it. Poor boy was so bored he ate the aluminum siding off the ladies house. Anyways, I tried to talk the lady out of him and she got on the "I paid alot of money for him..... he was pick of the litter" spill. I wound up buying him from her in hopes of giving him a better life. He is a year old this month. His name is Ruger. She said she got him his shots but I didnt believe her (since she didnt even get him a house) so I took him and got him all his shots. Also bought him some very expensive medicated shampoo bc where he had been left out in the rain his coat had some rain rot in it. Anyways, he is extremely sweet and he has potential, but we have other dogs he is more interested in playing with than learning. I'd love for him to go to a good home if your interested. He is the standard brown/black. And is the German bloodline- not the American.


----------



## Fire8

Sorry for your loss Randy


----------



## Andyshine77

Sorry to hear Randy, it can be tough!!


----------



## Outlaw5.0

Sorry to hear about your loss.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i'm sorry Randy. I lost my rat terrier that same way when I was a kid, we grew up together. one day he just went off and didn't come back, he was 13 and I was 15. my ol chesapeke will be 13 this spring......I know its coming.....but it ain't no easyer.


----------



## MacLaren

I am sorry to hear this. I lost one many years ago and, it took as many to get another.......


----------



## treesmith

I was building granite garden steps for a friend, he took his dogs and my 5yr old collie girl across the road into the Woods, she loved running, she lived to run and she was fast, she used to snap at deers heels to round them up, I reckon she heard my voice and came running to see me. Wasn't even a busy road and in the middle of nowhere too. Still raw and that was three years ago


----------



## Mastermind

shootingarts said:


> Not to derail the thread derailment, but Randy didn't you whittle a little piece off of something in this engine making a small design change? Seems like I remember the design having a protrusion somewhere you whittled off. Not sure and there are too many pages to go back through to try to find it, especially when I just found about fifty more pages to read on this same build! Anyway, when you get back to the saw, might think about that. Might be something, might not be, the manufacturers have flow benches and ain't big on extra headaches and expenses they don't need.



Not sure what you are talking about Hu.....I've done no whittling of parts.


----------



## shootingarts

Mastermind said:


> Not sure what you are talking about Hu.....I've done no whittling of parts.



Not sure either Randy, always possible I am mistaken or confusing threads! Been cold and wet for a couple weeks here and I'm spending more time on the computer than outside. Might have been a different saw, might even have been a different whittler.

Hu


----------



## Mastermind

I've go a new top end and a new muffler coming from Chad for this saw. R&D won't be cheap.......but I gotta know where the gains are in this saw.


----------



## shootingarts

Mastermind said:


> I've go a new top end and a new muffler coming from Chad for this saw. R&D won't be cheap.......but I gotta know where the gains are in this saw.



I wasn't gonna tell ya this but my brother was over in Germany for his company which has a major manufacturing division there. While he was so close I had him drop by Stihl. They had a saw scattered out on a workbench, had one of your decals on the cover.

I'm pretty sure the 661 you are working on came from the factory already "masterminded"!

Hu


----------



## Mastermind

shootingarts said:


> I wasn't gonna tell ya this but my brother was over in Germany for his company which has a major manufacturing division there. While he was so close I had him drop by Stihl. They had a saw scattered out on a workbench, had one of your decals on the cover.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the 661 you are working on came from the factory already "masterminded"!
> 
> Hu



LMAO........go soak yer head.


----------



## Philbert

They owe you royalties Randy!

Philbert


----------



## Mastermind

I wish.....


----------



## Duane(Pa)

shootingarts said:


> I wasn't gonna tell ya this but my brother was over in Germany for his company which has a major manufacturing division there. While he was so close I had him drop by Stihl. They had a saw scattered out on a workbench, had one of your decals on the cover.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the 661 you are working on came from the factory already "masterminded"!
> 
> Hu


Pie crumbs in the air filter too......


----------



## bryanr2

Mastermind said:


> I've go a new top end and a new muffler coming from Chad for this saw. R&D won't be cheap.......but I gotta know where the gains are in this saw.



Most of us here are counting on you unlocking the secrets to the 661, and since I have one in my crosshairs when you do figure it out.... I'd like to send a little something ($) towards your endeavor. Your research benefits those in particular that are following this thread, myself included. Check or Paypal bro?opcorn:


----------



## treesmith

Duane(Pa) said:


> Pie crumbs in the air filter too......


Thanks mate, just blew sushi and soy everywhere


----------



## Mastermind

bryanr2 said:


> Most of us here are counting on you unlocking the secrets to the 661, and since I have one in my crosshairs when you do figure it out.... I'd like to send a little something ($) towards your endeavor. Your research benefits those in particular that are following this thread, myself included. Check or Paypal bro?opcorn:




While I truly appreciate the offer, I feel that I should take care of this myself. I also should say that Chad and I have worked out a deal that we both think is fair for the parts. In other words, Chad is helping with the cost of these parts in a big way.


----------



## Locust Cutter

Duane(Pa) said:


> Pie crumbs in the air filter too......



Pretty sure I saw some Bacon in one of the pics... Maybe it was cooking on the muffler after the improved cut time?


----------



## Andyshine77

Mastermind said:


> I've go a new top end and a new muffler coming from Chad for this saw. R&D won't be cheap.......but I gotta know where the gains are in this saw.



Been there!! will be there again! It sucks I surly know. Sometimes the only way to learn how to standup. One must first fall down.

Everyone have a Merry Christmas.

Andre.


----------



## HuskStihl

If the technological advances in 2 strokes parallels cars it will be harder and harder to pull big gains out of these engines with modifications. Before everything became turbocharged a few years ago, a lot of the non-pushrods engines were putting out 100hp/liter. Just not much room for improvement. Us car guys are at a disadvantage in that you face bigger penalties for running "dirty" in a car


----------



## CR500

I'm still waiting for some company to put an exhaust valve on a saw. To me that will be the next step in performance. Rotax motors have had those for years and they operated by pressure inside the cylinder.


----------



## Lark-o

CR500 said:


> I'm still waiting for some company to put an exhaust valve on a saw. To me that will be the next step in performance. Rotax motors have had those for years and they operated by pressure inside the cylinder.


there would need to be more of a tuned expansion chamber type of pipe/muffler to make it worth while to use a exhaust valve.


----------



## MasterMech

CR500 said:


> I'm still waiting for some company to put an exhaust valve on a saw. To me that will be the next step in performance. Rotax motors have had those for years and they operated by pressure inside the cylinder.


Are you kidding me? Listen to how folks gripe now about m-tronic/AutoTune adding complexity to their saws.....


----------



## Officer's Match

> Are you kidding me? Listen to how folks gripe now about m-tronic/AutoTune adding complexity to their saws.....



I'm still waiting for a model with a flippy-throttle.


----------



## komatsuvarna

CR500 said:


> I'm still waiting for some company to put an exhaust valve on a saw. To me that will be the next step in performance. Rotax motors have had those for years and they operated by pressure inside the cylinder.



Makita EK7651H


----------



## Metals406

Officer's Match said:


> I'm still waiting for a model with a flippy-throttle.



Or a flippy-filter.


----------



## treesmith

Ms200t comes close, air filter screw turns with thumb pressure


----------



## Metals406

Yeah, but to be a true flippy-filter, it would all have to come off as a unit. ;-)


----------



## Dieselshawn

CR500: exhaust valves only benefit for 2 strokes that operate at all rpms while a saw runs at top rpms while cutting.

It will just be dead weight added.

With today's advances in technology, any saw manufacturer would've added a exhaust valve if it did improve performance.

It's only benefit is to make the power band broader, more crisper throttle response across all rpms and varying throttle positions.

With a saw, just hit the throttle, cut a piece of pie off, all done. 

Even hot saws don't have them.


----------



## CR500

Dieselshawn said:


> CR500: exhaust valves only benefit for 2 strokes that operate at all rpms while a saw runs at top rpms while cutting.
> 
> It will just be dead weight added.
> 
> With today's advances in technology, any saw manufacturer would've added a exhaust valve if it did improve performance.
> 
> It's only benefit is to make the power band broader, more crisper throttle response across all rpms and varying throttle positions.
> 
> With a saw, just hit the throttle, cut a piece of pie off, all done.
> 
> Even hot saws don't have them.



Low end response would greatly be improved, I'm willing to bet lol


----------



## Dieselshawn

Cr500: the chain would likely land on the moon if the saw has too much throttle response.


----------



## Dieselshawn

Rogue60: in a snowmobile where power valves are common, they give better midrange response without taking away top end power. 

Yes the power valves tame the hit of the 2 stroke.

As snowmobiles evolved, power has gone up and it's difficult to control a high strung 2 stroke and hard on the belts.

My snowmobile won't make near the power of a power valve engine of equal cc unless I raise the exhaust port but doing so makes the engine harder to work with.

So power valves allow better power and smoother response at all rpms.

You would be correct as the valves tames the peaky power or increase the power of a 2 stroke without sacrificing bottom end power.


----------



## Dieselshawn

Rogue60: yes, be good for nothing on a saw. There is a Polaris 600 triple back in 1997 that was over ported from factory, it needed a heavy spring loaded clutch to keep the power in the top end. It works well for some people but was hard on belts and not as much fun going slow. If that model had power valves it would run better and have a better setup clutch. 

Yes a well tuned carb and properly setup clutch or transmission will work well and make lots of power. 

Grass drag sleds don't use power valves as they're only going 500-1,000 ft in the top class. 

Hit the throttle, hang on!


----------



## Franny K

rogue60 said:


> So If I get this right a power valve on a chainsaw would be good for nothing then yes? .



What it would do is have a nice quiet idle and allow for more radical porting for top end. Just speaking from two stroke off road motorcycle experience the kind with a centrifugal governor for the power valve. I suspect similar would hold true for other designs more likely to be applied to a chainsaw. The powervalve when closed puts the top of the exhaust essentially even with the top of the transfer ports so the shock wave when it is in the lowered position is less.


----------



## Dieselshawn

Let's picture this: let's use skidoo tech stuff on lets say stihl 662 for example if they were building this. 

Stihl puts power valves on, direct fuel injection, computers to run the system, and all other fancy stuff that I probably missed. 

I'm sure it'll be one big pig of a saw. But it'll be clean, powerful, oil efficient as well and pretty much no emissions. 

Then if we want more power, give the 662 to mastermind. 

While out in the bush cutting wood, the saw cuts out on power with engine light flashing. Call stihl service to come out to jobsite with a laptop to verify the issue and fix or send to dealer. Meanwhile, I'll take the mooberized 661 and go back to work. 

We all want powerful saws but it has to be lightweight, simple and reliable. 

All the manufacturers come out with very good units and with a little porting or timing, that machine becomes much better yet. 

They're also expensive enough as it is.


----------



## redbull660

going to have to buy a service plan for the 662 if it has all that.


----------



## Trx250r180

Well in other news ,my stihl dealer said they re released the 660 wrap model,it was actually not availible recently due to the 661 ,all they could get are half wraps


----------



## Mastermind

You fellers are re-inventing the wheel here huh? 

I've got a new muffler for the 661 and will try it un-modded today.

Thanks to Chad, we have this new muffler, and a cylinder kit in route. I want to try just doing machine work on a new jug with no port work. This saw has such a tight crankcase, that I wonder if 7900 like numbers would work better than what I did on my first trip thru.

Rest assured that we will figure out where the gains are at in the 661.......long before most guys will have one in hand.


----------



## redbull660

wish they would do a 661 with a carb/non mtronic. I like my screw driver. But BUT BUT that spring AV would be really nice so if they don't I'll have to get a 661cm.


----------



## Venomvpr900

Mastermind said:


> You fellers are re-inventing the wheel here huh?
> 
> I've got a new muffler for the 661 and will try it un-modded today.
> 
> Thanks to Chad, we have this new muffler, and a cylinder kit in route. I want to try just doing machine work on a new jug with no port work. This saw has such a tight crankcase, that I wonder if 7900 like numbers would work better than what I did on my first trip thru.
> 
> Rest assured that we will figure out where the gains are at in the 661.......long before most guys will have one in hand.



No doubt in my mind!!!


----------



## HuskStihl

What are the 660's going for? Prolly get a brand new ported 660 for significantly less than than the 661. I'm thinking about skipping Autotune altogether and waiting for fuel injection


----------



## mdavlee

HuskStihl said:


> What are the 660's going for? Prolly get a brand new ported 660 for significantly less than than the 661. I'm thinking about skipping Autotune altogether and waiting for fuel injection



Depending on your dealer a wrap 660 will be $940 and up.


----------



## shootingarts

Mastermind said:


> You fellers are re-inventing the wheel here huh?
> 
> I've got a new muffler for the 661 and will try it un-modded today.
> 
> Thanks to Chad, we have this new muffler, and a cylinder kit in route. I want to try just doing machine work on a new jug with no port work. This saw has such a tight crankcase, that I wonder if 7900 like numbers would work better than what I did on my first trip thru.
> 
> Rest assured that we will figure out where the gains are at in the 661.......long before most guys will have one in hand.




Randy,

I think the doohickey thing I was trying to remember earlier is the bolt on chunk of aluminum to aid bearing lubrication or something in the bottom end. Since I only vaguely remembered anything about it I didn't realize it was something that came off and was put back. Might not have even been in one of these threads either, too much reading not enough doing lately although I did get out and whittle awhile yesterday. Raining for days now, back to the 'puter!

Anyway, you are wondering about that tight crankcase, looks to me like that doohickey is a handful of cc's in volume judging by the image. Don't know if it would be worth the bother but pulling it and leaving it off for a test run or two might answer your questions about case volume or at least give some indications. Can't send it out the shop like that but it might help with your small volume case curiosities.

Just a passing thought.

Hu


----------



## Mastermind

Hu, you are talking about the baffle/stuffer under the piston. It was in the 461 thread that we removed it to see if there were any gains to be had from that. It directs the incoming charge upward to cool the piston pin and crown. 

I don't want to remove it at all in this saw. Just pulling it and disturbing the bolts that hold it are not in my head at this time. Stihl has those lock rings on their fasteners, and they cut in, taking some material off each time they are tightened. If there is not a good reason, I don't want do anything that could inadvertently get debris in the crankcase. It could thin the flange and weaken it a bit as well.


----------



## Mastermind

redbull660 said:


> hey Randy, what if you just put a hole in the center of the front muffler cover and then put spark arrestor screen over it. Kinda like the 660 setup. Wouldn't the exhaust venting straight out be the easiest quickest path?



Adding exhaust outlet can be done with a piece on sheet metal in place of the cover........just add size and see what happens. Treemonkey's idea.


----------



## Jacob J.

MasterMech said:


> Are you kidding me? Listen to how folks gripe now about m-tronic/AutoTune adding complexity to their saws.....



People are gonna gripe anyway, it's what people do.


----------



## shootingarts

Mastermind said:


> Hu, you are talking about the baffle/stuffer under the piston. It was in the 461 thread that we removed it to see if there were any gains to be had from that. It directs the incoming charge upward to cool the piston pin and crown.
> 
> I don't want to remove it at all in this saw. Just pulling it and disturbing the bolts that hold it are not in my head at this time. Stihl has those lock rings on their fasteners, and they cut in, taking some material off each time they are tightened. If there is not a good reason, I don't want do anything that could inadvertently get debris in the crankcase. It could thin the flange and weaken it a bit as well.




Gotcha! I hate locking devices that do damage every time they are tightened down. Definitely understand about debris too. After taking race car engines back apart two or three times because visitors came stomping into the engine area of my shop I started not doing assembly until about three in the morning on my race engines. A chuckle, a friend took the opposite approach. After blowing several high dollar engines built in near laboratory conditions he decided an engine needed a little "friendly dirt" in it while it was being built so putting it on a dirt track wasn't too much of a shock to it's system!

Hu


----------



## MasterMech

redbull660 said:


> wish they would do a 661 with a carb/non mtronic. I like my screw driver. But BUT BUT that spring AV would be really nice so if they don't I'll have to get a 661cm.


My understanding is that they did, but only in Europe/UK. At least that is what I gathered from some chatter on forums over there. That's going to a rare bird (non-MT 661) indeed.


----------



## Mastermind

I just want everyone to know that I'm done here on AS. Claudio and I can see eye to eye. He can keep the place......I'm out.


----------



## MasterMech

Mastermind said:


> I just want everyone to know that I'm done here on AS. Claudio and I can see eye to eye. He can keep the place......I'm out.


Wow, that's a big/tough decision on your part....


----------



## LowVolt

Mastermind said:


> I just want everyone to know that I'm done here on AS. Claudio and I can see eye to eye. He can keep the place......I'm out.



Freedom of speech gone I guess?

This sucks...


----------



## Officer's Match

WTF?????


----------



## bootboy

So where are you going randy?


----------



## Mastermind

You can bet your ass I'm not going to stop modding saws, and I'll never be hard to find. Just like always, send me an email, pm, or phone call, and I'll be there.


----------



## bootboy

Found you, and that sexy saw


----------



## CR500

Randy I will be in touch if this is true... you have been a big help to me understanding saw tweaking techniques.


----------



## Buffhunter

Mastermind said:


> I just want everyone to know that I'm done here on AS. Claudio and I can see eye to eye. He can keep the place......I'm out.




SERIOUSLY WTF JUST HAPPENED? ????


----------



## Chris-PA

I suspect the reason you saw limited gains is that you employed your usual strategy, which is a good one and the same one that the Stihl engineers used - so limited gains in that direction.

This thing meets emissions limits without strato. The usual approach used there seems to be:

Short exhaust duration to keep cylinder pressure up
Carefully designed quad high velocity transfers & reduced case volume to reduce scavenging losses
Usually they stick a cat on to deal with the terrible fuel mixture control of traditional carbs, but I guess with M-tronic they avoided that.

Then again I could be all wrong. 

Having just returned after 6 months I'm sorry to see you go. I hate You-tube and rarely watch videos so I won't see your work anymore, but then I'm not a target audience anyway. Good luck.


----------



## treesmith

Looks like they shot themselves in the foot, this place will be poorer without you, Randy. Thanks for everything and I'll be in touch, I've heard you can do good things with chainsaws.......


----------



## Mastermind

LMAO....

One Monkey don't stop the show.


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> LMAO....
> 
> One Monkey don't stop the show.




No............it will just be playing in another theater .................


----------



## splitpost

Thats too bad,have seen alot of guys leave AS Since joining in 2009
guess i will just catch him on a different channel from now on


----------



## MCW

redbull660 said:


> hey Randy, what if you just put a hole in the center of the front muffler cover and then put spark arrestor screen over it. Kinda like the 660 setup. Wouldn't the exhaust venting straight out be the easiest quickest path?



It's also the quickest path for setting the log you are cutting on fire  These types of muffler mods look cool but in real world cutting they are actually potentially dangerous. In larger logs during extended cuts you'll need a fire extinguisher handy.


----------



## bootboy

MCW said:


> It's also the quickest path for setting the log you are cutting on fire  These types of muffler mods look cool but in real world cutting they are actually potentially dangerous. In larger logs during extended cuts you'll need a fire extinguisher handy.



I've got just such a muffler on my 460 and have never started a fire. In cuts where I have my 30" bar buried, I've charred bark but never gotten embers. The pipes go into my muffler at angles and so the exhaust circulates a little before coming out. It also helps to maintain a little more pressure in the muffler without restricting it.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

MCW said:


> It's also the quickest path for setting the log you are cutting on fire  These types of muffler mods look cool but in real world cutting they are actually potentially dangerous. In larger logs during extended cuts you'll need a fire extinguisher handy.


even the side discharge can ignite a log covered with dry moss...done that


----------



## MCW

bootboy said:


> I've got just such a muffler on my 460 and have never started a fire. In cuts where I have my 30" bar buried, I've charred bark but never gotten embers. The pipes go into my muffler at angles and so the exhaust circulates a little before coming out. It also helps to maintain a little more pressure in the muffler without restricting it.


 
Just because you haven't done it doesn't mean it can't happen. As mentioned above it can and does happen. If you got caught with such a modification in an Australian forest you'd be kicked straight out and possibly even fined. I've caught bark alight plenty of times on certain tree species. I played around with straight through muffler mods for a bit of fun on 365's with BB kits and canned them pretty quickly before I started a bushfire. I never noticed any power increase over a standard muffler mod and I doubt any of the builders here have noticed a difference in power either.


----------



## The Ripper

The only differences I "HEAR" is a louder exhaust pulse along with the power distribution being somewhat broader.


----------



## bootboy

MCW said:


> Just because you haven't done it doesn't mean it can't happen. As mentioned above it can and does happen. If you got caught with such a modification in an Australian forest you'd be kicked straight out and possibly even fined. I've caught bark alight plenty of times on certain tree species. I played around with straight through muffler mods for a bit of fun on 365's with BB kits and canned them pretty quickly before I started a bushfire. I never noticed any power increase over a standard muffler mod and I doubt any of the builders here have noticed a difference in power either.




Well, good to know if I ever travel to Oz with my saw. Most of my work involves yard trees so I'm not particularly concerned. I have a stock front cover that I can change out but it requires re tuning and losing a noticeable amount of grunt... and noise.


----------



## MCW

bootboy said:


> Well, good to know if I ever travel to Oz with my saw. Most of my work involves yard trees so I'm not particularly concerned. I have a stock front cover that I can change out but it requires re tuning and losing a noticeable amount of grunt... and noise.



I wasn't trying to be a smartarse with my comment but just stating a few observations over many years of using saws under many conditions from dry arid areas to basically rainforest. Potential fire risks are certainly not an issue in rainforests. Yard trees aren't really an issue with starting fires but I'm pretty certain that areas of US forestry would have the same concerns as Australia.
Some of the muffler modifications I've seen on AS over the years are quite laughable and similar to that 17 year old kid putting a 5" exhaust on his stock Honda Civic. Sound alone would make him think he's gained 50HP


----------



## MCW

The Ripper said:


> The only differences I "HEAR" is a louder exhaust pulse along with the power distribution being somewhat broader.



The power increase and broader power distribution is a result of modifying the muffler full stop, not as result of having a front exit. Adding an extra side port will have exactly the same results.


----------



## shootingarts

MCW said:


> I wasn't trying to be a smartarse with my comment but just stating a few observations over many years of using saws under many conditions from dry arid areas to basically rainforest. Potential fire risks are cetainly not an issue in rainforests. Yard trees aren't really an issue with starting fires but I'm pretty certain that areas of US forestry would have the same concerns as Australia.
> Some of the muffler modifications I've seen on AS over the years are quite laughable and similar to that 17 year old kid putting a 5" exhaust on his stock Honda Civic. Sound alone would make him think he's gained 50HP



Kids today don't know nuth'n! Everybody dry behind the ears knows to get fifty horsepower from exhaust mods on a car you gotta go to dual pipes with Hollywood Glasspaks. Get them good and hot and then run a few gallons of water from the garden hose into each exhaust pipe to blow most of the glass out. Then you got a runner!!

Got an exhaust idea I want to try on a saw, based loosely off of an old circle track racing muffler. Don't know if they are still marketed or not. If the idea works it would be dead simple to tune exhaust.

Hu


----------



## singinwoodwackr

shootingarts said:


> Kids today don't know nuth'n! Everybody dry behind the ears knows to get fifty horsepower from exhaust mods on a car you gotta go to dual pipes with Hollywood Glasspaks. Get them good and hot and then run a few gallons of water from the garden hose into each exhaust pipe to blow most of the glass out. Then you got a runner!!
> 
> Got an exhaust idea I want to try on a saw, based loosely off of an old circle track racing muffler. Don't know if they are still marketed or not. If the idea works it would be dead simple to tune exhaust.
> 
> Hu


I've always assumed that stickers are the key to massive HP.


----------



## gmax

MCW said:


> The power increase and broader power distribution is a result of modifying the muffler full stop, not as result of having a front exit. Adding an extra side port will have exactly the same results.



Now you tell me


----------



## MCW

gmax said:


> Now you tell me
> View attachment 325139



Heh heh. Sadly I have seen muffler mods like that on AS that were serious!


----------



## windthrown

MCW said:


> I wasn't trying to be a smartarse with my comment but just stating a few observations over many years of using saws under many conditions from dry arid areas to basically rainforest. Potential fire risks are cetainly not an issue in rainforests. Yard trees aren't really an issue with starting fires but I'm pretty certain that areas of US forestry would have the same concerns as Australia.


 
I am with the Aussies on this one. If you get caught with a saw w/o a spark arrester here in fire season it is a large fat fine. Muffler mods they do not care much about, but the spark screens, we have to have them here. Also if you start a fire here, you are liable for any and all damage done by it, and you may also be liable for the cost to put it out. Spark screen or no spark screen, we also have restricted cutting hours in summer months here that vary through the season. _Semi-hoot owl_, and_ hoot owl _restrictions, as they are called. No cutting during the heat of the day, and you have to have at least some fire suppression equipment.


----------



## treesmith

British forestry commission is the same with sparks, they didn't like felling spikes either


----------



## thomas1

shootingarts said:


> Got an exhaust idea I want to try on a saw, based loosely off of an old circle track racing muffler. Don't know if they are still marketed or not. If the idea works it would be dead simple to tune exhaust.
> 
> Hu



Yes, you can still buy Supertrapps.


----------



## shootingarts

thomas1 said:


> Yes, you can still buy Supertrapps.



Those aren't quite what I was thinking about but it seems the brand might be right. Perhaps they have evolved over the last forty years more or less!

Seems to me like the plates to tune backpressure and noise and then a metal tube or cone around them to direct gases forward but over a much wider area than a typical outlet to reduce the blowtorch effect might make a good saw muffler system. Could do the same thing with some angled slots and a single moving piece too.

I have been thinking about the pipes made out of flat metal then inflated too but that would be tuned by trial and error with lots of error and pretty major revision each time. Adding or subtracting plates or a simple adjustment would seem much easier.

Hu


----------



## chadihman

Oh where oh where is Randy posting? The other theater is having projector issues


----------



## chadihman

Really is a big fat bummer Randy left here. Pure BS actually. Work something out moderators!!!


----------



## LegDeLimber

Well I ....HAD.... a lengthy comment nearly typed up.

with the reply box still in play, I was checking a couple of links to make certain they were what I intended and illustrated my intention. 
when I changed back to AS screen and tried to post,
I got the you must be logged in screen.

arghhh.
perhaps I'll try it again a little later.

ETA: yes I know about the kick-off timer
but I'm a horribly slow "typist "


----------



## shootingarts

LegDeLimber said:


> Well I ....HAD.... a lengthy comment nearly typed up.
> 
> with the reply box still in play, I was checking a couple of links to make certain they were what I intended and illustrated my intention.
> when I changed back to AS screen and tried to post,
> I got the you must be logged in screen.
> 
> arghhh.
> perhaps I'll try it again a little later.
> 
> ETA: yes I know about the kick-off timer
> but I'm a horribly slow "typist "




Hate it when that happens! Been working on my typing for a lot of years now. When I upgraded to three fingers I now type 50% faster!

Hu


----------



## Mastermind

chadihman said:


> Oh where oh where is Randy posting? The other theater is having projector issues





chadihman said:


> Really is a big fat bummer Randy left here. Pure BS actually. Work something out moderators!!!



I'm still trying to figure out why I wasn't banned........I'll be around Chad. 

I don't want to be a sponsor anymore though.


----------



## LowVolt

Maybe after the first of the year things will start happening again......


----------



## chadihman

Mastermind said:


> I'm still trying to figure out why I wasn't banned........I'll be around Chad.
> 
> I don't want to be a sponsor anymore though.


Sweet..... I like you I here I like there I like Mastermind everywhere. 

Kiddos books got me in the tune of Doctor Seuss


----------



## stihl sawing

chadihman said:


> Really is a big fat bummer Randy left here. Pure BS actually. Work something out moderators!!!


Moderators can do very little about it, all of the mods here will miss Randy and his post. I think he will still be around just not as much. Randy is his own man and made the decision he feels was necessary. we can only hope he will return. Besides he's my kinfolk.(maybe).lol


----------



## Mastermind

stihl sawing said:


> Moderators can do very little about it, all of the mods here will miss Randy and his post. I think he will still be around just not as much. Randy is his own man and made the decision he feels was necessary. we can only hope he will return. Besides he's my kinfolk.(maybe).lol



tl;dr


----------



## LowVolt

SS always has the coolest avatar pics/animated gifs!


----------



## Mastermind

SS is muh cuz....

Y'all didn't know that I bet.


----------



## LowVolt

Hey Randy you do not need to comment but it seems like I am getting two and three email notifications for a thread??? Kinda weird....


----------



## Trx250r180

My stickers on my saws are starting to disappear like the picture of Marty's family in back to the future ..............


----------



## Mastermind

Darin says he has it fixed......


----------



## LowVolt

Fixed like you get them or fixed like the way it used to be, if I missed one no big deal, I will get another?


----------



## Mastermind

I'm IMing Darin now on Facebook. Maybe we will get some answers.......


----------



## Jimmy in NC

Trx250r180 said:


> My stickers on my saws are starting to disappear like the picture of Marty's family in back to the future ..............
> View attachment 325230



At least you get stickers.. he never put them on my 288 or give me one for the 372 he did for me...maybe he doesn't like Hooskies...


----------



## Mastermind

If anyone needs new ones or I forgot them just send me a PM...


----------



## treeslayer2003

Brian, yer scrubin um to hard lol.
Randy, ya mean there is a whole monkey family down there? lol, well maybe all of us this side the line is a little bit monkey. and if you do get banned for speaking out then i'm gone to.


----------



## Jimmy in NC

Mastermind said:


> If anyone needs new ones or I forgot them just send me a PM...


Just giving you a hard time .... I figured that 288 was pushed out of the shop with a quickness! I still think that's a kick mark from Jon on the wrap handle...


----------



## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> Brian, yer scrubin um to hard lol.
> Randy, ya mean there is a whole monkey family down there? lol, well maybe all of us this side the line is a little bit monkey. and if you do get banned for speaking out then i'm gone to.




gas cap was leaking on that saw ,put a new one on ,was wiping up the 2 stroke oil with carb cleaner on a rag ,the sticker did not like the carb cleaner


----------



## Jimmy in NC

Trx250r180 said:


> gas cap was leaking on that saw ,put a new one on ,was wiping up the 2 stroke oil with carb cleaner on a rag ,the sticker did not like the carb cleaner



Means you are using the saw!! Woohoo!!


----------



## Naked Arborist

This sucks, I'm bored and you all know why.

See you on the flip side.
Happy New Year

SH


----------



## windthrown

Mastermind said:


> If anyone needs new ones or I forgot them just send me a PM...


 
So Randy, is this like security signs for the yard and windows? Can we buy just the stickers for our saws and pretend they have been ported?

My new sig line photo in case you have the AS sig files turned off...



_If we only had a Masterminded chainsaw!_


----------



## crane

treesmith said:


> British forestry commission is the same with sparks,* they didn't like felling spikes either*



I'm curious as to the reason for that???


----------



## barneyrb

Mastermind said:


> SS is muh cuz....
> 
> Y'all didn't know that I bet.


Damn ifn' I'd admit that...he's bound to be your great gr gr gr gr daddys brother as old as SS is.....


----------



## windthrown

crane said:


> I'm curious as to the reason for that???


 
Yah, I lever my dawgs pretty hard. I cannot see making face/back cuts or bucking w/o them.


----------



## shootingarts

windthrown said:


> So Randy, is this like security signs for the yard and windows? Can we buy just the stickers for our saws and pretend they have been ported?
> 
> My new sig line photo in case you have the AS sig files turned off...
> 
> View attachment 325267
> 
> _If we only had a Masterminded chainsaw!_




I was thinking e-bay! Get a couple dozen of Randy's decals and auction them on e-bay like people do autographs. Better yet buy some of them counterfeit saws and slap Randy's decals on them. Nothing says gin-u-whine like a Mastermind decal!

Hu


----------



## stihl sawing

barneyrb said:


> Damn ifn' I'd admit that...he's bound to be your great gr gr gr gr daddys brother as old as SS is.....


I see what ya did.


----------



## Trx250r180

Just have Randy do all your saws ,then you won't need stickers to know which ones have been hopped up


----------



## stihl sawing

treeslayer2003 said:


> Brian, yer scrubin um to hard lol.
> Randy, ya mean there is a whole monkey family down there? lol, well maybe all of us this side the line is a little bit monkey. *and if you do get banned for speaking out then i'm gone to*.


Who's gonna ban my cuz? Be some serious butt kickin comin from the Evans clan.


----------



## HD2010

Mastermind said:


> I'm still trying to figure out why I wasn't banned........I'll be around Chad.
> 
> I don't want to be a sponsor anymore though.


 
I'm glad to see that you will still be around.


----------



## 056 kid

Mastermind, your saws are weak dude wtf...


----------



## 056 kid

Its not personal either. Really! Im just disappointed. . All the "saw porters" on as on the east coast seem to build slow saws. I know why too. The client base is uneducated.. example;
Out west, jim runs a 66 and an 84, hes a 3rd gen OG faller, he knows a lot!
In NC Ed runs the same saws, but the biggest thing he has ever cut is a 4' red oak about 110 feet tall and that was in his friends back yard. 
Now jim has saws that would make ed soil himself, ed has saws that ed thinks are badass. Unfortunately ed & jim will never meet so ed will go on thinking his saws are strong. And to reinforce eds thoughts, many dozens of his friends agree with him.. 
I believe this is a case of a big ed market. There are no jims to step out and call BS..


----------



## stihl sawing

Oh boy.. Here we go.


----------



## barneyrb

056 kid said:


> Its not personal either. Really! Im just disappointed. . All the "saw porters" on as on the east coast seem to build slow saws. I know why too. The client base is uneducated.. example;
> 
> 
> Getting into the new years eve whiskey early huh?
> Out west, jim runs a 66 and an 84, hes a 3rd gen OG faller, he knows a lot!
> In NC Ed runs the same saws, but the biggest thing he has ever cut is a 4' red oak about 110 feet tall and that was in his friends back yard.
> Now jim has saws that would make ed soil himself, ed has saws that ed thinks are badass. Unfortunately ed & jim will never meet so ed will go on thinking his saws are strong. And to reinforce eds thoughts, many dozens of his friends agree with him..
> I believe this is a case of a big ed market. There are no jims to step out and call BS..


----------



## treeslayer2003

kid, you know full well how hard some of the eastern hardwoods are. C,mon man, that's like saying the best saw would be an 044 with a 36" bar. you know better than that comparison.


----------



## moody

056 kid said:


> Mastermind, your saws are weak dude wtf...



How many saws have you ran that he did? And how many have you ported? Frankly I don't recognize your name. I've run Randy's stuff and its as ggood anyone's. You build one better then we can talk.


----------



## MCW

moody said:


> How many saws have you ran that he did? And how many have you ported? Frankly I don't recognize your name. I've run Randy's stuff and its as ggood anyone's. You build one better then we can talk.



The kid is one of those guys who pops up here and there to stir the pot  He's pretty harmless. He does use a lot of saws though but none of Randys.


----------



## treeslayer2003

hey there Matt. yea kid is a faller but I had to call him on that one.......shoot kid you would me if I said it.


----------



## moody

MCW said:


> The kid is one of those guys who pops up here and there to stir the pot  He's pretty harmless. He does use a lot of saws though but none of Randys.



I understand his second post but to claim a builders saws are weak isn't good choice. Boils down to the fact if he doesn't have any saws from Randy personally there's no reason to claim disappointment. There are some guys who build a particular model a little stouter than others, but that doesn't mean his saws are weak. Nobody has the perfect formula for every saw. What Randy does works obviously or he wouldn't get the amount of work he does.


----------



## 056 kid

I am a professional timber faller who is interested in saws that produce more than their stock friends. I have run a lot of "ported saws"..


----------



## MCW

moody said:


> I understand his second post but to claim a builders saws are weak isn't good choice. Boils down to the fact if he doesn't have any saws from Randy personally there's no reason to claim disappointment. There are some guys who build a particular model a little stouter than others, but that doesn't mean his saws are weak. Nobody has the perfect formula for every saw. What Randy does works obviously or he wouldn't get the amount of work he does.



Hey I agree 100% but 056kid and I had some ripper arguments about Dolmar 7900's a few years back with him saying they were crap and me having a swag of hours on them falling. In the end he sent me a PM stating that he was just stirring the pot. There is certainly nothing wrong with Randy's saws and I think he has a really good formula for a work saw focussing on torque on not revs.
The second part of his post is actually quite valid without pointing the finger at or offending any builders.


----------



## MCW

056 kid said:


> I am a professional timber faller who is interested in saws that produce more than their stock friends. I have run a lot of "ported saws"..



Can you please increase the quality of your avatar, your hinge looks 1° off of horizontal.


----------



## 056 kid

And I have run all the east coast majors. They are weak... end of story. There is a market out here..


----------



## mdavlee

056 kid said:


> Its not personal either. Really! Im just disappointed. . All the "saw porters" on as on the east coast seem to build slow saws. I know why too. The client base is uneducated.. example;
> Out west, jim runs a 66 and an 84, hes a 3rd gen OG faller, he knows a lot!
> In NC Ed runs the same saws, but the biggest thing he has ever cut is a 4' red oak about 110 feet tall and that was in his friends back yard.
> Now jim has saws that would make ed soil himself, ed has saws that ed thinks are badass. Unfortunately ed & jim will never meet so ed will go on thinking his saws are strong. And to reinforce eds thoughts, many dozens of his friends agree with him..
> I believe this is a case of a big ed market. There are no jims to step out and call BS..



Which builders are building such great saws from the west coast Ted? I bought a couple from out there that got spanked by east coast builders saws.


----------



## 056 kid

I built a 660 several years ago that WILL beat a mm 660. And I bet on that..


----------



## MCW

056 kid said:


> I built a 660 several years ago that WILL beat a mm 660. And I bet on that..



It probably should beat a muffler modded 660 too.

One area I rarely see modified by many builders is the carby where huge gains can be made. Unfortunately if a buyer pays USD$250 for a saw build they probably don't want to pay an extra USD$250 to get the carby modified properly. I've seen some saws with stock carbies and then properly prepared carbies and it was unreal at the difference with the carby the only change.


----------



## 056 kid

mdavlee said:


> Which builders are building such great saws from the west coast Ted? I bought a couple from out there that got spanked by east coast builders saws.


Dude honestly. Your a weekend warrior. You have no chances of getting a good port job in a small west coast community.... 
There ARE builders all over the west coast who build saws that east coast cookie cutters will NEVER know of...


----------



## Shanster

Who are the west coast builders? I've had a hard time finding any that work on the new Stihl's


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MCW

056 kid said:


> Dude honestly. Your a weekend warrior. You have no chances of getting a good port job in a small west coast community....
> There ARE builders all over the west coast who build saws that east coast cookie cutters will NEVER know of...



What does a saw build cost over that side of the country?


----------



## splitpost

Haha,you guys crack me up ,fishing anyone?


----------



## bryanr2

Big Trees on the West Coast but aren't most of them soft? I did a search for the common "logged species on the West Coast".

Sierra Pacific Industries' privately-owned forests are located in California and Washington. Take a look at the most common types of trees grown on these lands:
Major conifer species:

Ponderosa Pine
Sugar Pine
Douglas-fir
White Fir
Incense-cedar
Western Hemlock
Other tree species:

Red Fir
Black Oak
Tanoak
Pacific Yew
Big Leaf Maple
Gray Pine
Lodgepole Pine
Jeffrey Pine
Mountain Hemlock
Coast Redwood & Giant Sequoia


----------



## LowVolt

If you are planning to challenge the monkey to a dual, be careful! His gun is already drawn, locked and loaded.


----------



## barneyrb

"056 kid, post: 4622925, member: 5087"]Dude honestly. Your a weekend warrior. You have no chances of getting a good port job in a small west coast community....
There ARE builders all over the west coast who build saws that east coast cookie cutters will NEVER know of...[/quote]
Dipchit end of story.....


----------



## treesmith

crane said:


> I'm curious as to the reason for that???


I've emailed them hopefully they'll get back. I was under the impression in certain situations the spikes can catch and jam the saw in place, say a large log rolling or some such. It's something I've heard mentioned over the years from different sources. I'll see what I can find


----------



## MCW

treesmith said:


> I've emailed them hopefully they'll get back. I was under the impression in certain situations the spikes can catch and jam the saw in place, say a large log rolling or some such. It's something I've heard mentioned over the years from different sources. I'll see what I can find



I thought you may have heard it from Sawtroll as he thinks felling spikes are put on saws for decoration! (Hi Niko )


----------



## The Ripper

056 kid said:


> Its not personal either. Really! Im just disappointed. . All the "saw porters" on as on the east coast seem to build slow saws. I know why too. The client base is uneducated.. example;
> Out west, jim runs a 66 and an 84, hes a 3rd gen OG faller, he knows a lot!
> In NC Ed runs the same saws, but the biggest thing he has ever cut is a 4' red oak about 110 feet tall and that was in his friends back yard.
> Now jim has saws that would make ed soil himself, ed has saws that ed thinks are badass. Unfortunately ed & jim will never meet so ed will go on thinking his saws are strong. And to reinforce eds thoughts, many dozens of his friends agree with him..
> I believe this is a case of a big ed market. There are no jims to step out and call BS..




So "KID" are you disappointed that you don't have the mastermind of monkey or just plain ignorant about porting a 2cycle . As with most porters, they have step levels they gauge themselves by allowing the customer a choice and being most here are weekend warriors and some live by the chain, you need some restraint to saw mods or life expectancy could be cut short costing more in the long run to maintain. Since you've been so bold in slamming the porters on AS,lets here about your porting accomplishments and any knowledge you might be willing to pass along to assist some members who are the week-end DIY's like Randy,Brad,etc,etc have done to help.


----------



## blsnelling

Don't pleasure the punk with a response. He's probably PUI.


----------



## MCW

blsnelling said:


> Don't pleasure the punk with a response. He's probably PUI.



Looks like he's just plain old passed out now. He hasn't replied


----------



## Dieselshawn

056 kid said:


> Mastermind, your saws are weak dude wtf...



Now now, don't be a put down on someone's saw work. Mastermind put a lot of effort over the years to learn through trial and error on what works best for a work saw that would be reliable and have good gains. Many on AS would agree with that. 

Also there are many other saw guys that do good work as well and will put their work up against anyone's. 

We don't go and say that saw that a respected saw builder did is slow when it's actually proven by many across North America. Maybe the saw has issues due the owner? Is it maintained? 

Have you got proof? 

If you do saw builds you act professional by keeping your opinions to yourself and let your work show everyone what it does. It's the people that want their saws worked on that does the voting. 

Also someone may have a "faster" cutting saw but is it reliable? Or says its fast but refuse to go up against someone else? 

We've seen that BS go through already several times.

I for one do not have a mooberized saw yet buuut, randy here gave me instructions on how to get a decent port work with just simple tools on my 260. And yes, it made a very good difference and I'm pleased with my saw!


----------



## 056 kid

The Ripper said:


> So "KID" are you disappointed that you don't have the mastermind of monkey or just plain ignorant about porting a 2cycle . As with most porters, they have step levels they gauge themselves by allowing the customer a choice and being most here are weekend warriors and some live by the chain, you need some restraint to saw mods or life expectancy could be cut short costing more in the long run to maintain. Since you've been so bold in slamming the porters on AS,lets here about your porting accomplishments and any knowledge you might be willing to pass along to assist some members who are the week-end DIY's like Randy,Brad,etc,etc have done to help.



I ported a 660 that ran for a long time and it ran stronger than other 660s.. simple...


----------



## bootboy

Well, speaking of Randy...

Has any been over to his new hideout and seen the front page? Hysterical! He broke it.


----------



## 056 kid

MCW said:


> Looks like he's just plain old passed out now. He hasn't replied



No, im just past arguing with a bunch of people who have no idea.


----------



## 056 kid

For the record here. I have run randys saws. I have one in my possession now... im not trying to stir the pot so much as to figure out why guys have big fan bases yet their saws, (that I've run) are big disappointments..


----------



## 056 kid

barneyrb said:


> "056 kid, post: 4622925, member: 5087"]Dude honestly. Your a weekend warrior. You have no chances of getting a good port job in a small west coast community....
> There ARE builders all over the west coast who build saws that east coast cookie cutters will NEVER know of...


Dipchit end of story.....[/quote]

Haha.


----------



## fastLeo151

Well 056,

You can't just say that because you live in one region of the country your saws run that much better. I understand that you probably have no real point other than to stir the pot.....but you simply can't make that type of statement with out facts or proof. Tell us the builders, show us a video. Do something other than run your damn mouth. Randy is a good man and I'll bet he wouldn't appreciate you aimlessly running your mouth. Does he build the best saws on the planet... Who cares. He does damn good work and is a straight shooter. His work speaks for its self in three different build offs that he has won


----------



## 056 kid

barneyrb said:


> "056 kid, post: 4622925, member: 5087"]Dude honestly. Your a weekend warrior. You have no chances of getting a good port job in a small west coast community....
> There ARE builders all over the west coast who build saws that east coast cookie cutters will NEVER know of...


Dipchit end of story.....[/quote]



MCW said:


> What does a saw build cost over that side of the country?


250. It seems 250 is quite the standard..


----------



## Dieselshawn

056 kid said:


> For the record here. I have run randys saws. I have one in my possession now... im not trying to stir the pot so much as to figure out why guys have big fan bases yet their saws, (that I've run) are big disappointments..



Then act like professional and keep your negative opinions to yourself. 

You wouldn't like it if someone out of the blue says your stuff sucks. 

Many people have their own choice of builders.


----------



## fastLeo151

Well said shawn


----------



## Walt41

Note to self...invent typing interlock device similar to ignition locking device on cars that requires user to be sober to operate. 056, have a large glass of water before passing out tonight, it will help the first of many hangovers in 2014.


----------



## 056 kid

Cmon fellas. Im entitled to my opinion, the first amendment right guys? Look dont get but hurt because your upset by what I say. Happy new year...


----------



## LowVolt

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like Brad said everyone use a feature of the new software and ignore user.


----------



## LowVolt

LowVolt said:


> Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like Brad said everyone use a feature of the new software and ignore user.



Success! The feature works!!!!!


----------



## 056 kid

blsnelling said:


> Don't pleasure the punk with a response. He's probably PUI.


As for you, calling me a punk. Thanks Brad. That's elegant


LowVolt said:


> Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like Brad said everyone use a feature of the new software and ignore user.


Peace out *****. 95 % of you can follow suit. Theres a few people in forestry and logging, the rest of you can hit that ignore button!


----------



## moody

056 kid said:


> I ported a 660 that ran for a long time and it ran stronger than other 660s.. simple...



Do it aagain and let's see it


----------



## MCW

056 kid said:


> No, im just past arguing with a bunch of people who have no idea.



Some of them have more of an idea than you probably realise  I quite often agree with what you say but more often than not it's the way you say it that gets people offside.


----------



## 056 kid

moody said:


> Do it aagain and let's see it



Wellll, I DID just pick up a new 660 a few days ago. Maybe. I have to get back home first, but okay, ill diy this one too.. I wanted to have it done here in OR, but the guy has a backup of over a month.


----------



## 056 kid

MCW said:


> Some of them have more of an idea than you probably realise  I quite often agree with what you say but more often than not it's the way you say it that gets people offside.


I don't trust people. Plus I have a written expression disability. . So I can't express to the level and depth I desire..


----------



## fastLeo151

I'll be looking forward to you proving your not 100% full of monkey crap...should I hold my breath?


----------



## Mastermind

Hello Ted......you been drinking again?


----------



## bryanr2

opcorn:


----------



## 056 kid

Mastermind, I ran a big husky you did and it ****ing suuuucked. Wtf man? The thing had good compression, what gives? Ive run some others of yours, they weren't that bad.


----------



## Mastermind

Probably tuned wrong.......or I ****ed it up. I throw a gutter ball too sometimes ya know.


----------



## 056 kid

fastLeo151 said:


> I'll be looking forward to you proving your not 100% full of monkey crap...should I hold my breath?


If you want. I just need some burrs and sandpaper and it will be go time. Im sure thiz one will end up stronger than the last though!


----------



## tree monkey

Mastermind said:


> Probably tuned wrong.......or I ****ed it up. I throw a gutter ball too sometimes ya know.


blue goo saws?


----------



## fastLeo151

Scott I really enjoy your pic


----------



## Dieselshawn

056 kid said:


> Cmon fellas. Im entitled to my opinion, the first amendment right guys? Look dont get but hurt because your upset by what I say. Happy new year...



Yes, you are entitled to an opinion but there's also professional curtesy. You don't put down someone else's products.

Maybe what you build is better but promote your products or your skills and keep a professional attitude. 

You will gain far more respect that way. 

If you want a fan base, respect yourself and others. 

There are more to the constitution than just using one of them.


----------



## MCW

056 kid said:


> I don't trust people. Plus I have a written expression disability. . So I can't express to the level and depth I desire..



Hey no dramas here old son. We've butted heads before then kissed and made up  I'd still have a beer with you! Or six...


----------



## 056 kid

Mastermind said:


> Probably tuned wrong.......or I ****ed it up. I throw a gutter ball too sometimes ya know.



I got it tuned right. And yea, we all screw up. Its just the level your and other porters fan boys go to.. **** you can make a post about poking a hole in a soda can and the fan boys follow with page after page of fillatio. People get too ****ing carried away before they know what their even carrying.. 

PS. Im on a pain killer script and pain killers agitate me thoroughly..


----------



## Shanster

Like I asked before who are the PNW saw builders? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MCW

056 kid said:


> I got it tuned right. And yea, we all screw up. Its just the level your and other porters fan boys go to.. **** you can make a post about poking a hole in a soda can and the fan boys follow with page after page of fillatio. People get too ****ing carried away before they know what their even carrying..
> 
> PS. Im on a pain killer script and pain killers agitate me thoroughly..



My 660 will beat your 660 (and mine is a Chinese copy!)


----------



## 056 kid

Dieselshawn said:


> Yes, you are entitled to an opinion but there's also professional curtesy. You don't put down someone else's products.
> 
> Maybe what you build is better but promote your products or your skills and keep a professional attitude.
> 
> You will gain far more respect that way.
> 
> If you want a fan base, respect yourself and others.
> 
> There are more to the constitution than just using one of them.


I agree to an extent. The logging woods are a place to be utterly upfront and crass though. I guess I incorporate that mindset in these conversations. All in all, the porters on this site will not lose business from my opinion.


----------



## fastLeo151

Just cuz your on meds doesn't give you free reign to insult whomever you please, maybe you should log off and sleep it off to save a little face.....


----------



## 056 kid

Shanster said:


> Like I asked before who are the PNW saw builders?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Haha, guys with a phone # and a good reputation and thats about it.


----------



## Mtthwvn

...pain killers make me feel like superman...


----------



## 056 kid

fastLeo151 said:


> Just cuz your on meds doesn't give you free reign to insult whomever you please, maybe you should log off and sleep it off to save a little face.....


You strike me as politically correct. I'm not.....


----------



## Buffhunter

056 kid said:


> I got it tuned right. And yea, we all screw up. Its just the level your and other porters fan boys go to.. **** you can make a post about poking a hole in a soda can and the fan boys follow with page after page of fillatio. People get too ****ing carried away before they know what their even carrying..
> 
> PS. Im on a pain killer script and pain killers agitate me thoroughly..




Lmao a drug addict can port saws better then anybody west of the Mississippi. Your awesome just ask yourself


----------



## 056 kid

Buffhunter said:


> Lmao a drug addict can port saws better then anybody west of the Mississippi. Your awesome just ask yourself



So taking prescription pills prescribed by a physician makes me a drug addict.

Well I guess you passing judgement makes you a douchemaster!

*******..

And you mean EAST of the Mississippi....

Now take one of the saws you have so proudly listed and go cut some cookies. Yucca or sage? haha


----------



## MCW

056 kid said:


> So taking prescription pills prescribed by a physician makes me a drug addict.



If so then I am the most awesomest drug addict on earth. I had to take 5 different pills myself this morning.


----------



## 056 kid

Lmao, they didn't ship your asses down there for nothing. Your a miscreant and you make kitty scared!!!


----------



## Buffhunter

056 kid said:


> So taking prescription pills prescribed by a physician makes me a drug addict.
> 
> Well I guess you passing judgement makes you a douchemaster!
> 
> *******..
> 
> And you mean EAST of the Mississippi....
> 
> Now take one of the saws you have so proudly listed and go cut some cookies. Yucca or sage? haha



Lots of drug addicts have pills prescribed by physicians especially pain killers. Probably havin a few cold ones or a high ball or two with them pills aren't ya??????? Or do you just take em to make yourself feel good so you can have diarrhea of the mouth to a person that has 100x more backbone then you do?


----------



## Metals406

Mastermind said:


> Hello Ted......you been drinking again?



Dammit Randy, you stole my lines!


----------



## 056 kid

Buffhunter said:


> Lots of drug addicts have pills prescribed by physicians especially pain killers. Probably havin a few cold ones or a high ball or two with them pills aren't ya??????? Or do you just take em to make yourself feel good so you can have diarrhea of the mouth to a person that has 100x more backbone then you do?


I take them when I am prescribed to them......

And how do you find shirts that fit with all that backbone? How do you fit in a car? 100 times the backbone as me? Thats like 300 feet of backbone!!


----------



## bootboy

Man, talk about a derailed thread...


----------



## MCW

bootboy said:


> Man, talk about a derailed thread...



Read back. This thread was derailed about 44 pages ago


----------



## Buffhunter

056 kid said:


> I e them when I am prescribed to them......
> 
> And how do you find shirts that fit with all that backbone? How do you fit in a car? 100 times the backbone as me? Thats like 300 feet of backbone!!




Lol......have another pill and a shot since you dont understand my post


----------



## MCW

056 kid said:


> Lmao, they didn't ship your asses down there for nothing. Your a miscreant and you make kitty scared!!!



Sadly my bloodlines do date back to the convict days. Thanks for bringing that up. I have to take more pills now


----------



## Metals406

It's funny watching all the newbs getting upset over 056.

Y'all haven't been around long enough to know Ol Ted. He's always got one foot in his mouth and a hand on a beer. ;-)

Happy New Year Ted! Can't wait fer the saw race between you and Randy! LOL


----------



## 056 kid

Buffhunter said:


> Lol......have another pill and a shot since you dont understand my post


Oh, what did I miss? Saw rhetoric has never been a strong suit for me. Why don't you make it simple for me?


----------



## MCW

056 kid said:


> Oh, what did I miss? Saw rhetoric has never been a strong suit for me. Why don't you make it simple for me?



The backbone comment was actually quite witty


----------



## 056 kid

Hey, alcohol has played a part in my debauchery in the past, but not so much tonight. 

What it is is I'm that guy who says what nobody wants to hear. Weather it belittle intelligence or condemn work...


----------



## Metals406

MCW said:


> The backbone comment was actually quite witty



Yeah, I was laughing at that one too. . . Perdy funny. Ted should change his user handle to "300ftbackbone". Bwahahaha


----------



## MCW

Metals406 said:


> Yeah, I was laughing at that one too. . . Perdy funny. Ted should change his user handle to "300ftbackbone". Bwahahaha



It did not seem like the wit of a pill fuelled, drug crazed madman but hey, you can never be too sure nowadays.


----------



## Metals406

056 kid said:


> Hey, alcohol has played a part in my debauchery in the past, but not so much tonight.
> 
> What it is is I'm that guy who says what nobody wants to hear. Weather it belittle intelligence or condemn work...



No, you just don't have a filter like some folks. . . If it pops in yer head, it falls right off your tongue.

Keep riling up these newbs, there's an extra PBR in it fer ya if'n you do. :-D


----------



## Buffhunter

056 kid said:


> Oh, what did I miss? Saw rhetoric has never been a strong suit for me. Why don't you make it simple for me?




Lol just kinda getting your one of the joke diarrhea of the mouth guys around here. And I wasn't talkin about me with the backbone your not talkin crap about me. Randy has done more for people on this site in the past 2 years I have been a member then most people I have known for quite a while..... obviously you just have problems to have to do this to a good man.... but seems they all know you all to well so have a happy new year and I hope one day you can be happy with yourself so you don't have to run your mouth to make yourself feel better.


----------



## paccity

HA! you folks have a productive newyear.


----------



## windthrown

056 kid said:


> I ported a 660 that ran for a long time and it ran stronger than other 660s.. simple...


 
Man, you are simply a disgrace to the state or Oregon. And the west coast in general. And likely drunk, or high. If you are on Rx meds, you are on the wrong ones, or you are abusing them. Taking on the entire AS site is not going to do you any good, nor is trash talking my friend Randy or others here. Your behavior is irresponsible and inexcusable, regardless of any disability that you may or may not have. Having a disability does not give you the right to act out, call people out, or go off on a rant here, or anywhere else. Frankly, you should be banned from this forum for your behavior. The ADA does not protect you from being tossed from a web forum, or from a bar, or from a private party.

My advice people, is to just add him to your ignore file, and he will be vaporized from this site from your login perspective. Unlike the vB forum software, XF software erases any evidence that he exists if you add him to your iggy list. Good luck with your drug problem, your mental disability, or whatever you have there_ 056 Kid_. I do hope I never run into your sorry ass anywhere here in the west. For your sake.


----------



## MCW

Buffhunter said:


> Lol just kinda getting your one of the joke diarrhea of the mouth guys around here. And I wasn't talkin about me with the backbone your not talkin crap about me. Randy has done more for people on this site in the past 2 years I have been a member then most people I have known for quite a while..... obviously you just have problems to have to do this to a good man.... but seems they all know you all to well so have a happy new year and I hope one day you can be happy with yourself so you don't have to run your mouth to make yourself feel better.



Hey don't take offence to the kid's comments. You'll probably even find that Randy think's he's funny and correct on occasion too  What you don't know about 056 is that he's 16 years old, has pimples, has never touched a saw in his life, and plays the X-Box a lot with one hand on his willy


----------



## 056 kid

windthrown said:


> Man, you are simply a disgrace to the state or Oregon. And the west coast in general. And likely drunk, or high. If you are on Rx meds, you are on the wrong ones, or you are abusing them. Taking on the entire AS site is not going to do you any good, nor is trash talking my friend Randy or others here. Your behavior is irresponsible and inexcusable, regardless of any disability that you may or may not have. Having a disability does not give you the right to act out, call people out, or go off on a rant here, or anywhere else. Frankly, you should be banned from this forum for your behavior. The ADA does not protect you from being tossed from a web forum, or from a bar, or from a private party.
> 
> My advice people, is to just add him to your ignore file, and he will be vaporized from this site from your login perspective. Unlike the vB forum software, XF software erases any evidence that he exists if you add him to your iggy list. Good luck with your drug problem, your mental disability, or whatever you have there_ 056 Kid_. I do hope I never run into your sorry ass anywhere here in the west. For your sake.


And if you do run into me what are your plans guy? You gonna **** me up? You gonna teach me? Cool man, get in line...
Ive seen old paul for a while. ****ing ignore me if you hate me that much dude. please?


----------



## 056 kid

MCW said:


> Hey don't take offence to the kid's comments. You'll probably even find that Randy think's he's funny and correct on occasion too  What you don't know about 056 is that he's 16 years old, has pimples, has never touched a saw in his life, and plays the X-Box a lot with one hand on his willy


Hay man im like 17 and a half. And I have like 50 chainsaws..


----------



## Metals406

Windthrown. . . Long time no see. You took like a three year break or something? Bout the time a bunch of other guys left. Don't let Ted get you down -- he comes across like a downer, but if you light his ass on fire and breath in deep. . . He's really an upper! Hahaha


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> HA! you folks have a productive newyear.



Happy New year Fraze! 

It's like a damn WWII Blitzkrieg here with all the fireworks going off outside. Now how am I supposed to go to bed? LOL


----------



## MCW

056 kid said:


> Hay man im like 17 and a half. And I have like 50 chainsaws..



Did you buy that chainsaw game for the X-Box? Sorry about the incorrect age. My bad


----------



## 056 kid

Metals406 said:


> Happy New year Fraze!
> 
> It's like a damn WWII Blitzkrieg here with all the fireworks going off outside. Now how am I supposed to go to bed? LOL


I hope they put on a show here. Curry county is way to broke for that chit though so I am doubtful. 
HAPPY NEW YEAR! !


----------



## 056 kid

MCW said:


> Did you buy that chainsaw game for the X-Box? Sorry about the incorrect age. My bad



I got the one with the stihl that has the 42" blade and you can throw the saw like a boomerang and it comes back. They are making a real one like that and I am gonna be one of the first people to get one next year at game stop yo.


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> Happy New year Fraze!
> 
> It's like a damn WWII Blitzkrieg here with all the fireworks going off outside. Now how am I supposed to go to bed? LOL


i could pop a jar in the backyard but at this point it wold be to much work.


----------



## paccity

056 kid said:


> I hope they put on a show here. Curry county is way to broke for that chit though so I am doubtful.
> HAPPY NEW YEAR! !


ted hows the steal been down there.


----------



## Metals406

So when is this saw buildoff/race going down?

Ted "300ftbackbone" vs. Randy "Monkeybutt" Evans

You're sooo gonna lose Ted! Hahahaha


----------



## 056 kid

paccity said:


> ted hows the steal been down there.


Maaaan. All that big talk I did a few weeks ago, yea that was all chit talk. Its like southern cali down here, dry as hell. No fish coming in and none stuck in any holes. Definitely the biggest let down of the trip. Oh well though, theirs always next time.


----------



## 056 kid

Metals406 said:


> So when is this saw buildoff/race going down?
> 
> Ted "300ftbackbone" vs. Randy "Monkeybutt" Evans
> 
> You're sooo gonna lose Ted! Hahahaha



Im not sure about that. Even if my chain is the only divider of victory. Which it well may be. Im not a sore loser though..


----------



## funky sawman

whooooooooooooooooooooo nelllly. what about that ms661?


----------



## funky sawman

this thread is a runaway west bound bnsf coal train coming off of marias pass headed to kalispell montana. no brakes and she aint slowen down. here she comes nate!!!!


----------



## Metals406

funky sawman said:


> this thread is a runaway west bound bnsf coal train coming off of marias pass headed to kalispell montana. no brakes and she aint slowen down. here she comes nate!!!!



Hahaha, if she's rollin from Marias -- there ain't no makin it thru the turns before West Glacier!

How'd the doctor go today?


----------



## funky sawman

Metals406 said:


> Hahaha, if she's rollin from Marias -- there ain't no makin it thru the turns before West Glacier!
> 
> How'd the doctor go today?


well they took my work restrictions off so i can run a chainsaw now. might have to learn how to run one again lol


----------



## Jimmy in NC

tl;dr 

Sent from my MiniMac running E-85!!


----------



## shootingarts

funky sawman said:


> whooooooooooooooooooooo nelllly. what about that ms661?




I'm hoping Randy starts reading through all this for entertainment and decides to talk about the saw build again. Don't know if anyone has been to the other site where Randy was talking about it but he, and we'uns that followed over there to keep up with the build, are credited with crashing the site and forcing an upgrade that is in progress last I checked.

Kinda reminds me of the time Norton offered to name a new computer virus I discovered after me. If it wasn't for the honor of the thing . . . .

Hu


----------



## Stihlman441

RANDY how did you go with the 661C build


----------



## Mastermind

I have a new jug on the way for it. It's still a week away though. 

I think I raised the transfers too high in this one, and would like another shot at it.


----------



## Blazin

Jugs? Someone say jugs?!?!?!


----------



## Mastermind

Facebook is more interesting than this place today.


----------



## chadihman

Mastermind said:


> I have a new jug on the way for it. It's still a week away though.
> 
> I think I raised the transfers too high in this one, and would like another shot at it.


Soon as I see that jug I'll ship it same day and fast as they got. I want you to have it as bad as you want it.


----------



## Naked Arborist

056 kid said:


> If you want. I just need some burrs and sandpaper and it will be go time. Im sure thiz one will end up stronger than the last though!




opcorn:...


----------



## Naked Arborist

056 kid said:


> If you want. I just need some burrs and sandpaper and it will be go time. Im sure thiz one will end up stronger than the last though!




opcorn:...


----------



## Mastermind

You fellers don't let Ted get you worked up. I never do.


----------



## Metals406

Mastermind said:


> You fellers don't let Ted get you worked up. I never do.



You guys are gonna race right?


----------



## chadihman

Mastermind said:


> You fellers don't let Ted get you worked up. I never do.


I wanted to say a word or two about him but I bit my tongue and just watched.


----------



## Naked Arborist

Man, sometimes it does come out wrong when your young.

Save that jug. There's hope for it yet.

opcorn:


----------



## hseII

056 kid said:


> Wellll, I DID just pick up a new 660 a few days ago. Maybe. I have to get back home first, but okay, ill diy this one too.. I wanted to have it done here in OR, but the guy has a backup of over a month.



^^^^ So is Randy.
Thank You for showing us with you knowledge of ported saws.

I'll send you and email and call to touch bases before I ship mine, just as we agreed on Randy.
Happy New Year Randy.

HEath


"100% of Home Invasions Occur in a Home" - Sharpsburg


----------



## LowVolt

hseII said:


> ^^^^ So is Randy.
> Thank You for showing us with you knowledge of ported saws.
> 
> I'll send you and email and call to touch bases before I ship mine, just as we agreed on Randy.
> Happy New Year Randy.
> 
> HEath
> 
> 
> "100% of Home Invasions Occur in a Home" - Sharpsburg



Hmmmm, what are we shipping???


----------



## 056 kid

Metals406 said:


> You guys are gonna race right?


Sure! I think it would be fun even if I don't win.


----------



## hseII

LowVolt said:


> Hmmmm, what are we shipping???



If UPS ever runs this year, a mint 660 that I got last week from a guy. 

On another note, my cousin who has the completely stock, asking to be modded 660, called me last night and told me to step outside for just a second.

When I got out there he dropped the tailgate, and there it was;







An MS880.     


"100% of Home Invasions Occur in a Home" - Sharpsburg


----------



## Trx250r180

056 kid said:


> Sure! I think it would be fun even if I don't win.



You ever get those 2 saws fixed that blew up right after you had them ported ?


----------



## Mastermind

I've yet to lose a long bar saw race.....but heck, Ted may be able to build a faster 066 than any other saw builder in the country.


----------



## chadihman

056 kid said:


> Sure! I think it would be fun even if I don't win.


How about a ms 460 build. I have two with OEM jugs. I'll run both on the dyno before and after.


----------



## Mastermind

If it's not something I have on the shelf I'm no going out of my way to port anything special for this. I have nothing to prove.


----------



## DexterDay

chadihman said:


> How about a ms 460 build. I have two with OEM jugs. I'll run both on the dyno before and after.







Mastermind said:


> If it's not something I have on the shelf I'm no going out of my way to port anything special for this. I have nothing to prove.



I have a 460 you can borrow


----------



## Mastermind

I just ran this 661 VS a 066 I just ported with a 461 coil........the 066 was just one second behind.


----------



## Jimmy in NC

Hmm.....


----------



## mdavlee

I got a 46 and 66 laying around if you need it.


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> I just ran this 661 VS a 066 I just ported with a 461 coil........the 066 was just one second behind.



Have you put a 461 in that log yet ? with 28 inch bar it should be hanging with them pretty close ,till the 36 goes on ..............should change things a bit


----------



## 7sleeper

Mastermind said:


> I just ran this 661 VS a 066 I just ported with a 461 coil........the 066 was just one second behind.


Have you seen the thread of turning a 461 ignition coil to unlimited? Might be a possibility for the 661 coil?
MS 461 "De-Limiting" the Speed Limiter

7


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> I just ran this 661 VS a 066 I just ported with a 461 coil........the 066 was just one second behind.



How come the 461 coil on the 066? Just curious ya know .

WOW, I had to edit. A post from a whole different thread just showed up here.....


----------



## Trx250r180

7sleeper said:


> Have you seen the thread of turning a 461 ignition coil to unlimited? Might be a possibility for the 661 coil?
> MS 461 "De-Limiting" the Speed Limiter
> 
> 7


this wonderful site is blocking your link for me


----------



## Stihlman441

Yep cant see it as well.


----------



## Typhke

Stihlman441 said:


> Yep cant see it as well.


Search
*MS 461 "De-Limiting" the Speed Limiter*
on google. The topic is on the FF forum so censored


----------



## Mastermind

I was banned from FF.....

**** that place.

Durand, I just wanted to try the 461 coil on it. It limits RPM to 13,500, and has a nice advance curve.


----------



## komatsuvarna

Gotchya! I knew you had a reason.


----------



## Stihlman441

Thanks for that an easy way to unlimit a 461 coil.


----------



## Mastermind

I can't read it........tell us about it.


----------



## Typhke

Ok, credits go to *joe_indi* on FF*,* original poster. But I'll take over the content:



> The speed limiter on the MS461 can be a nuisance at times.
> #. Your old tach will not work for carb tune-ups
> #. If you are used to setting your carb to any rpm above 13,500, its difficult.
> 
> In the MS461 the rpm sensing is done by the 3rd pole of the ignition module, which differentiates the 461(ignition module) from the 2 pole unit on the 460.
> 
> So, I just cut off the 3rd pole! Okay, not chopped off completely, but trimmed off enough so that this pole will not pick up any working magnetic impulses from the flywheel
> And it works.
> 
> I held the pole compressed with a pair of pliers that had wet cotton waste on the jaws.This prevented the iron plates from transferring heat onto the coil inside while I used a hand held cutter.
> Heat transfer will sometimes cause the copper winding to snap from expansion.


----------



## 7sleeper

I didn't link the site because I assumed it to be not appropriate. But everyone can google it and look up the original site and info without any membership.

But it might help someone here.

7


----------



## Trx250r180

i am getting out the cut off wheel today


----------



## Typhke

7sleeper said:


> I didn't link the site because I assumed it to be not appropriate. But everyone can google it and look up the original site and info without any membership.
> 
> But it might help someone here.
> 
> 7


It's a nice find! Thanks for sharing!
I don't know if they agree with what I've done by copying the content, here or on FF. But I'll take the chance considering it is public content on the web (ofc all the credits go to the poster), and saw specific, not forum specific.


----------



## 7sleeper

Typhke said:


> It's a nice find! Thanks for sharing!
> I don't know if they agree with what I've done by copying the content, here or on FF. But I'll take the chance considering it is public content on the web (ofc all the credits go to the poster), and saw specific, not forum specific.


Your welcome. But I see it as a more delicate matter. Every site has it's right of existence and publishing info off other sites without approval is something I wouldn't do. Giving a hint at where to find the info is ok.

But I am not the judge here, others will do that job!

7


----------



## Mastermind

Awesome info!!!!


----------



## Typhke

7sleeper said:


> Your welcome. But I see it as a more delicate matter. Every site has it's right of existence and publishing info of other sites without approval is something I wouldn't do. Giving a hint at where to find the info is ok.
> 
> But I am not the judge here, others will do that job!
> 
> 7


I wouldn't normally do it, but considering the original link gets censored (and Randy can't see it and it could be important for this build). My post is just a copy with credits to the original source so it should be enough info, even in an official paper. And I didn't notice any specific copyright info on FF. Just trying to make it easier for everyone. Content can be removed if necessary but the whole forum is full with info copied from other sites without source, maybe not intentional but that's not the point. We'll see what the judges say


----------



## Nuzzy

If it's posted on the internet, it becomes public domain. Ask our current generation of teens and tweens sexting and posting pics how well it goes when they want said pics removed from the internet.


----------



## Metals406

There's nudity on the internet?


----------



## shootingarts

Nuzzy said:


> If it's posted on the internet, it becomes public domain. Ask our current generation of teens and tweens sexting and posting pics how well it goes when they want said pics removed from the internet.




There is just one thing I can say about that!


----------



## splitpost

I wonder if this method would work on the pre 2009 ms880 limited coil??????????


----------



## Naked Arborist

splitpost said:


> I wonder if this method would work on the pre 2009 ms880 limited coil??????????



50 50 chance.


----------



## Nuzzy

Metals406 said:


> There's nudity on the internet?




Only a very small amount. You really have to search to find it. I know a guy who has a friend that says it's there.


----------



## tree monkey

does the coil still advance timing?


----------



## splitpost

Naked Arborist said:


> 50 50 chance.


are you sure its 50 50


----------



## Mastermind

tree monkey said:


> does the coil still advance timing?



Very good question.


----------



## 056 kid

Mastermind said:


> I've yet to lose a long bar saw race.....but heck, Ted may be able to build a faster 066 than any other saw builder in the country.


That kind of sounds like you think you have the fastest. Not from what I've run.. no I don't think I can come remotely close to the fastest.. but I will have a good chain...


----------



## Mastermind

056 kid said:


> That kind of sounds like you think you have the fastest. Not from what I've run.. no I don't think I can come remotely close to the fastest.. but I will have a good chain...



When we did the 660/066 build off in KY, builders came from all over......but our saw was the faster one. Same thing with the 395XP. 

I'm sure someone out there builds stronger saws.......but that someone sure as hell ain't you Ted.


----------



## Buffhunter

056 kid said:


> That kind of sounds like you think you have the fastest. Not from what I've run.. no I don't think I can come remotely close to the fastest.. but I will have a good chain...




Hell this is about saws not chains. Just pull the loops off a fresh spool and see which saw is better.


----------



## 056 kid

Please don't discount me as a competitor in this game before you at least run a saw I have done, That's unfair.


----------



## 056 kid

Buffhunter said:


> Hell this is about saws not chains. Just pull the loops off a fresh spool and see which saw is better.


No thanks to that garbage...


----------



## Mastermind

If we are talking about 066/660s......without some machine work to the squish band and base, and right angle tools to rework the uppers, you'll never even get close.


----------



## Mastermind




----------



## 056 kid

Mastermind said:


> If we are talking about 066/660s......without some machine work to the squish band and base, and right angle tools to rework the uppers, you'll never even get close.



I can cut squish band and the base without machines... transfers are by far the most challenging aspect, but I can do a good amount with what a guy can find at home depo or the welding store.


----------



## Mastermind

Now Ted, if you know someone that has a saw I've done that's not running like it should, tell them to contact me. I'll pay for shipping back here for me to check it out. I stand behind everything I do as well as I can. If there's a problem with it, I'd like to have a chance to fix it.


----------



## Buffhunter

056 kid said:


> No thanks to that garbage...




Yes stock chains are garbage but I'm sure randy has done enough chains he can touch one up real nice. But if you wanna compare who the better builder is same bar and chain is the only way period


----------



## 056 kid

Mastermind said:


> Now Ted, if you know someone that has a saw I've done that's not running like it should, tell them to contact me. I'll pay for shipping back here for me to check it out. I stand behind everything I do as well as I can. If there's a problem with it, I'd like to have a chance to fix it.


I dont believe theirs anything wrong with it. I and a coworker where just somewhat surprised at the lack of power thats all.


----------



## Mastermind

What model saw is it?


----------



## MechanicMatt

Randy, Ive run PLENTY of your saws. Your 390xp that you built for spike60 is by far a BEAST. Don't stoop down to others levels. We all know the extent of your talents, no need to get upset by some guy that goal is to try and rile your feathers, or in your case fur.


----------



## Mastermind

I'm just like anyone Matt. I make mistakes. The thing is.......I will go the extra mile to fix my mistakes.


----------



## MechanicMatt

Untill the actual owner contacts you, I wouldn't sweat it. I've seen old 056 stir the pot before. I think he gets bored living at his parents house and tries to see how much he can piss someone off. Id ignore it, good luck


----------



## Mastermind

We repair saws too.......sometimes a saw with our sticker ain't been ported.


----------



## HuskStihl

Mastermind said:


> What model saw is it?




Here's the saw Ted has


----------



## Mastermind

Well Jon? Is it a turd?


----------



## Stihlman441

I wish we had soft woods.


----------



## HuskStihl

Mastermind said:


> We repair saws too.......sometimes a saw with our sticker ain't been ported.




Unlike mike, I am more of a month end worrier than a weekend warrior. This saw is stronger than my 385 by a good margin, but it's not like I run a bunch of ported 90cc saws


----------



## Mastermind

If it needs something you just let me know. It should be real strong.


----------



## Mastermind

I've tried really hard to make sure that anyone that has any issues with any saw I've done would have no problem letting me know about them. I will make mistakes.......hell I did over 200 saws last year. Surely someone has had issues. I've had less than five returns......


----------



## 056 kid

Sounds like standup work. Now I muse excuse myself, Mom is calling me for dinner lmao..


----------



## HuskStihl

That's honorable Randy, but it makes it through 25" red oak in 20 seconds, which is a lot faster than I can think. I trust Ted's experience, and had been hoping he would have been thrilled with the power, but he is coming off ported 120cc saws


----------



## 056 kid

No jon, I cannot thank you enough for the help and the saw did what was asked of it.


----------



## Mastermind

I'm just really serious about the work I do Jon. This is something I plan on doing the rest of my life......


----------



## MechanicMatt

056 kid said:


> Sounds like standup work. Now I muse excuse myself, Mom is calling me for dinner lmao..


056, you made me laugh. Its nice to see you have a sense of humor.


----------



## Trx250r180

yeah mm saws are pretty weak ,hemlock log


----------



## 056 kid

Really? That thing looks so dotey I could probably punch a hole through the middle!


----------



## Locust Cutter

Mastermind said:


>



I wish that my old 660 would have pulled like that, although I suspect that wood was likely a bit softer than Hedge, Locust or Red Oak and I don't run square-ground as it doesn't seem to live as long in those species of ranch trees... Mine wasn't an R version either so it had the weaker oiler, which did me no favors in the aforementioned woods with a 36" bar. I will likely buy a 395 or a 2188 to replace it, but I would really like to try a 661 just to see how it feels. Either way handling isn't as important as stumping power as my Stumpbroke 372 is just fine in 16-36" wood... I have played with 4 or 5 of Randy's saws now and they are amazing. 

Randy, dumb question possibly, but have you seen much of a negative consequence for the cranks/crankbearings while running a popup piston? I may send a saw or two to you, but I may just have you lower the squish if the pop-up will hurt the crank in the long-run (any more than the rest of the mods anyway) as they're going to be for firewood in hard-wood/hot conditions as opposed to cookie cutters... A piped 390 could be fun though...

Back to the 661...


----------



## bryanr2

Mastermind said:


> I'm just really serious about the work I do Jon. *This is something I plan on doing the rest of my life......*



Good to know.

Randy's done 16 or so for me and I have never had a single complaint against any of them other than they use too much fuel- but "hey, you have to pay to play". No issues, no complaints, no reason to look anywhere else for a builder. One thing about Randy- he is a better friend then saw builder. He stands behind his work, and I along with many others stand behind him as a builder and beside him as a friend. Fwends 4-ever.


----------



## Metals406

Now that the smack talking is out of the way, sharpen your hoof rasps and get to porting! 

Randy, your customer service is awesome bro -- seriously. You could build the 5th to last fastest saw out there, and you'd get customers because of that alone.


----------



## Locust Cutter

Randy,
Did you build that blue piped Dolkita 7900 race saw that Hedgerow and the 'Sconnie guys had or was that Tree Monkey? Either way I wasn't used to a saw like that and about got pushed off of the trailer on my first under-cut... Had to learn on the fly!!!


----------



## Mastermind

That was one of Scott's saws I think. He's one guy that really knows how to build a saw. 

That video of the 066......it was running off the roll RSC.


----------



## HuskStihl

056 kid said:


> No jon, I cannot thank you enough for the help and the saw did what was asked of it.


You are very welcome. You and I live in completely different saw worlds, and what is way too much saw for me to handle, may be not quite enough for your needs. I can barely start that ****er, and she pulls me around like a rag doll when I'm "falling" trees. I hope it continues to bridge the gap until your big nasties are running again. What we haven't discussed are the dawgs…. That saw was super strong until they went on there…….


----------



## Locust Cutter

Mastermind said:


> That was one of Scott's saws I think. He's one guy that really knows how to build a saw.
> 
> That video of the 066......it was running off the roll RSC.



Wow! I stand corrected. The 3120 you did for... I forgot his handle, was a mean snorting monster as well. I would have liked to play with it as well, but he wasn't openly offering and I didn't want to be rude. I did ply with one of your 562s... I like it a lot better than mine, which is saying a lot.


----------



## 056 kid

Pi


HuskStihl said:


> You are very welcome. You and I live in completely different saw worlds, and what is way too much saw for me to handle, may be not quite enough for your needs. I can barely start that ****er, and she pulls me around like a rag doll when I'm "falling" trees. I hope it continues to bridge the gap until your big nasties are running again. What we haven't discussed are the dawgs…. That saw was super strong until they went on there…….


Picked up a new 660 days ago so things are looking good. As dogs go, they still aren't big enough. I like the big stihl 5 point ones that hang way down.


----------



## Trx250r180

056 kid said:


> Really? That thing looks so dotey I could probably punch a hole through the middle!


yeah that hemlocks been down a couple years ,the water rings may have softened it some ,just made a quick vid with a fir log ,it's uploading now ,all i have to work with this time of night ,uploading now ,that 461 runs ok really for a small saw


----------



## Trx250r180

this fir is pretty dry ,it's for firewood actually


----------



## luckydad

Trx250r180 said:


> this fir is pretty dry ,it's for firewood actually



I still say your saws are 2 clean. Get those things outta that shop and gettem dirty Fred !!


----------



## Metals406

Brian, that saw sounds super nice. . . Cuts good too! Bet it has a sexy howl out in the woods.


----------



## Trx250r180

Metals406 said:


> Brian, that saw sounds super nice. . . Cuts good too! Bet it has a sexy howl out in the woods.


cel phone does not give the exhaust tone the same sound as in person ,has a deep tourque sound to it in person ,like a higher revving 660 maybe ,my hybrids are pretty quick but do not have the deep exhaust sound,that's a 32 inch bar with semi skip square also


----------



## Yukon Stihl

Mastermind said:


> Now Ted, if you know someone that has a saw I've done that's not running like it should, tell them to contact me. I'll pay for shipping back here for me to check it out. I stand behind everything I do as well as I can. If there's a problem with it, I'd like to have a chance to fix it.


With customer service like that......
I can see how the way things have been working around here would really PIZZ U OFF


----------



## Typhke

tree monkey said:


> does the coil still advance timing?


No, cutting the 3rd pole also stops the ignition advance. (based on the opinions in the original thread)


----------



## spencerpaving

I've 


MechanicMatt said:


> Randy, Ive run PLENTY of your saws. Your 390xp that you built for spike60 is by far a BEAST. Don't stoop down to others levels. We all know the extent of your talents, no need to get upset by some guy that goal is to try and rile your feathers, or in your case fur.


Ran spikes 390 several times it is truley a great saw almost makes me want to get one! Very powerful!


----------



## wyk

You guys settle down ans have some pie!


----------



## big t double

is mastermind worksaws a site sponsor again? I noticed the signature was back.


----------



## Mastermind

I kept seeing people talk about the saws I had done, and the ones I was working on......there's just no way people are gonna stop mentioning me and the work I do for this site's members. 

I didn't think it was fair to the site's owners for me not to send them the fee they have coming.


----------



## big t double

fair enough, seems awfully nice of you...sorry to derail...carry on.


----------



## Mastermind

One thing I have learned in this life.........do what feels right. If you need to think long and hard about something......it probably ain't right.


----------



## 7sleeper

Mastermind said:


> One thing I have learned in this life.........do what feels right. If you need to think long and hard about something......it probably ain't right.


Man you suck! I was just thinking about buying a new saw.....



7


----------



## wyk

Mastermind said:


> One thing I have learned in this life.........do what feels right. If you need to think long and hard about something......it probably ain't right.



That woulda saved me at least one marriage so far...


----------



## Trx250r180

Does this mean Randy's porting saws again ?


----------



## Mastermind

I've never stopped porting saws. I've got two MS441s under the knife right now.


----------



## Trx250r180

We 


Mastermind said:


> I've never stopped porting saws. I've got two MS441s under the knife right now.




I know ,just givin ya a hard time


----------



## milkman

Mastermind said:


> I kept seeing people talk about the saws I had done, and the ones I was working on......there's just no way people are gonna stop mentioning me and the work I do for this site's members.
> 
> I didn't think it was fair to the site's owners for me not to send them the fee they have coming.




Doing what is right is always the right thing to do even if it chokes a little. You sir are a stand up guy.


----------



## Buffhunter

Mastermind said:


> I've never stopped porting saws. I've got two MS441s under the knife right now.




Hey I thought mine was next.


----------



## Mastermind

It's right here.......looking over my shoulder.


----------



## MechanicMatt

You gonna make a thread about those 441's?


----------



## jchin

Mastermind said:


> I've never stopped porting saws. I've got two MS441s under the knife right now.


 
Hi Randy, I miss seeing your threads on here. It seems like I lost a friend..... You are the reason I have this disease.
I believe you call it - PSA ..... I have to ask you to do something for me. Please email when you get a chance. Thanks


----------



## funky sawman

jchin said:


> Hi Randy, I miss seeing your threads on here. It seems like I lost a friend..... You are the reason I have this disease.
> I believe you call it - PSA ..... I have to ask you to do something for me. Please email when you get a chance. Thanks


would psa be ported saw addict


----------



## Mastermind

Hello Jack. I'll be around here. I just went thru a rough patch with the holidays, the site not working well, too many long workdays, and my dog dieing. 

I'm better now.


----------



## jchin

Mastermind said:


> Hello Jack. I'll be around here. I just went thru a rough patch with the holidays, the site not working well, too many long workdays, and my dog dieing.
> 
> I'm better now.


 
Randy, Glad you feel better. Take it one day at a time. I know life is like a rollercoaster, ups and downs.. I will contact you.
Maybe you can help me with something.


----------



## Metals406

Mastermind said:


> It's right here.......looking over my shoulder.



Throw salt on it!


----------



## jchin

funky sawman said:


> would psa be ported saw addict


 
Yes, correct.


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> Hello Jack. I'll be around here. I just went thru a rough patch with the holidays, the site not working well, too many long workdays, and my dog dieing.
> 
> I'm better now.



I still love ya mang.










BTW "I have a potty mouth"


----------



## windthrown

funky sawman said:


> would psa be ported saw addict


 
Yes, its an advanced stage of CAD: Ported Saw Addiction. Early signs are the desire to have more power than a stock saw offers, which leads to drilling holes in mufflers and defeating EPA restrictions on carbs. But that is rarely enough, and the disease progresses to sending saws to a builder or becoming a saw builder yourself.


----------



## Naked Arborist

I'm gona say this right out in the open. If I get banned, so be it. Darin dug his own hole here. I like the site but, it does have it's ups and downs., many of those could have been avoided.


----------



## Mastermind

I say everything right out in the open.....always have, always will. I like that you do as well. 

I hate dancing around the facts like a school girl.


----------



## Metals406

Mastermind said:


> I say everything right out in the open.....always have, always will. I like that you do as well.
> 
> I hate dancing around the facts like a school girl.



But yet you still dress like one. . . Interesting.


----------



## wyk

It looks like a lot of older posts and images are working fine now. Most all my saved links to porting threads, etc, some of them 8 years old, are back.

Also with 'style 1' as an option now under message board type/appearance, I find AS is much easier on the eyes. I'd still prefer a less blindingly bright white background, tho.


----------



## Naked Arborist

Metals406 said:


> But yet you still dress like one. . . Interesting.



   opcorn:


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Mastermind said:


> I kept seeing people talk about the saws I had done, and the ones I was working on......there's just no way people are gonna stop mentioning me and the work I do for this site's members.
> 
> I didn't think it was fair to the site's owners for me not to send them the fee they have coming.


hmm, would you rather be an 'unmentionable'?


----------



## ernurse

Wow I think this has to win the "most off topic" thread award. This is all over the place.


----------



## ernurse

Mastermind said:


> I've never stopped porting saws. I've got two MS441s under the knife right now.


Yeah and whoever owns those 2 saws is gonna really like them. Yes Randy I run mine like it owes me money.


----------



## Mastermind

ernurse said:


> Yeah and whoever owns those 2 saws is gonna really like them. Yes Randy I run mine like it owes me money.



One of them is mine.


----------



## bryanr2

If you cant build the 661cm to beat the 395 then I will probably pass on it and buy a 441cm instead. I've heard you can build a 441cm that will make a 372 run for cover.


----------



## Mastermind

Don't count the 661 out yet Steven. It took me a couple of years to discover that we didn't really need to gut the stratos in the 261.....

Rome wasn't built in a day my friend.


----------



## fastLeo151

Steven I'll solve your dilemma.... Buy both


----------



## jchin

Mastermind said:


> One of them is mine.


 
Randy, I for one am happy you are here on AS forum. We would be diminished without you. The community will be stronger together as a group. Now hear me out.... While you are waiting for parts for the 661, start the New Year of 2014 with a new thread named Mastermind meets MS441 C-M. The saw are right there on your bench..........
Many of us members would like to see the inside of the cylinder and ins and out and what makes it click. You are an artist at that. I was truly amazed when you the thread on the MS461. Go for it...........


----------



## Mastermind

I didn't take many pics of the porting process Jack. But I can come up with something for a friend like you.


----------



## mdavlee

Mastermind said:


> One of them is mine.



Yay. Next time I comedown I can run one of them


----------



## DexterDay

jchin said:


> Randy, I for one am happy you are here on AS forum. We would be diminished without you. The community will be stronger together as a group. Now hear me out.... While you are waiting for parts for the 661, start the New Year of 2014 with a new thread named Mastermind meets MS441 C-M. The saw are right there on your bench..........
> Many of us members would like to see the inside of the cylinder and ins and out and what makes it click. You are an artist at that. I was truly amazed when you the thread on the MS461. Go for it...........



Jack, you are a good man! I hold Randy and Yourself in high regard. Having a 441C-M myself (I wanted one because Randy likes them so much. Thanks Steven, your one of the "ones" too), I too would be interested in seeing before and after! 

One day, I will send it to Cuddle lane, but till then, I wait and dream


----------



## jchin

Mastermind said:


> I didn't take many pics of the porting process Jack. But I can come up with something for a friend like you.


 
Thanks Randy. I remember one of your threads you had music playing in the background, followed by pictures, and then your voice appeared explaining each step of the process. It was the best thread I have ever seen. I know it that a lot on time and effort to make one thread, but us viewers we learn from them. We all gain. It is an all win situation.


----------



## bryanr2

if'n you sell the 55 and them 2 earthquakes you could near pay for port job.


----------



## DexterDay

Been hesitating to sell my other 036...... May need to know.


----------



## Mastermind

jchin said:


> Thanks Randy. I remember one of your threads you had music playing in the background, followed by pictures, and then your voice appeared explaining each step of the process. It was the best thread I have ever seen. I know it that a lot on time and effort to make one thread, but us viewers we learn from them. We all gain. It is an all win situation.



I did that thread in such detail because a lot was riding on it. We were trying to raise money for John and that saw was the money maker......


----------



## bryanr2

DexterDay said:


> Been hesitating to sell my other 036...... May need to know.



keep the 36 and get rid of them other 3. Are the Earthquakes Loaner Saws? How do they fit in in that pro line up you have? I have a crappy little poulan that I used strictly for cutting railroad ties so I wouldn't have to use a nice saw when we built the wall this summer.


----------



## jchin

DexterDay said:


> Jack, you are a good man! I hold Randy and Yourself in high regard. Having a 441C-M myself (I wanted one because Randy likes them so much. Thanks Steven, your one of the "ones" too), I too would be interested in seeing before and after!
> 
> One day, I will send it to Cuddle lane, but till then, I wait and dream


 
Hi Dex, Good to see you here. You and I know your 441 C-M will end up with Mr Mastermind.... This is an good example how all of us are stronger together. We learn from each other and we get along. Maybe the moderators of this AS forum should see how we ALL can get along. I mean ALL......


----------



## DexterDay

bryanr2 said:


> keep the 36 and get rid of them other 3. Are the Earthquakes Loaner Saws? How do they fit in in that pro line up you have? I have a crappy little poulan that I used strictly for cutting railroad ties so I wouldn't have to use a nice saw when we built the wall this summer.



I keep one for my ATV, the 45cc model is for the Chinese Saw race at our GTG in May. 

The 55 holds a place in my heart as well. Had a 455 (plastic), and loved it (years ago), so I wanted a 55 (much better construction). Similar to your feelings on the 028. 

I bought this other 036 to sell, but after I got it together and ran 4 tanks through it? ? Well... You know. .! I want to keep it!


----------



## Ironworker

Mastermind said:


> I've never stopped porting saws. I've got two MS441s under the knife right now.


I'm guessing I should be keeping an eye out for a FedEx truck.


----------



## Mastermind

I'll be shipping in the later part of next week Numa. I want to make it worthwhile to the driver when he makes a pickup. ;-))


----------



## jchin

greyfox said:


> I'm guessing I should be keeping an eye out for a FedEx truck.


 
Mr GreyFox, You are a lucky man.


----------



## ernurse

bryanr2 said:


> If you cant build the 661cm to beat the 395 then I will probably pass on it and buy a 441cm instead. I've heard you can build a 441cm that will make a 372 run for cover.


 I have never ran a ported 372 but my 441 c-m pulls like a truck and out cut my ported 660 with a 28in bar. That's why the 660 is history. You would not be disappointed with one of Randy's 441's.


----------



## Ironworker

Mastermind said:


> I'll be shipping in the later part of next week Numa. I want to make it worthwhile to the driver when he makes a pickup. ;-))


Sounds good, I can't due much anyway, just got elbow surgery.


----------



## MCW

Mastermind said:


> I kept seeing people talk about the saws I had done, and the ones I was working on......there's just no way people are gonna stop mentioning me and the work I do for this site's members.
> 
> I didn't think it was fair to the site's owners for me not to send them the fee they have coming.




Probably a smart move Randy. It wouldn't have been long before they started deleting any post relating to paid work by you. I've seen it before with non sponsors if a complaint gets made that somebody is promoting their business without paying to be a sponsor. Fair enough too


----------



## MCW

Mastermind said:


> I hate dancing around like a school girl.



I bet you'd make more money out of it though than porting saws


----------



## thomas1

MCW said:


> I bet you've made more money out of it though than porting saws



Fixed.


----------



## shootingarts

thomas1 said:


> Fixed.



Sorry about the like Randy, gotta like any post that makes me genuinely laugh out loud!

Hu


----------



## nixon

thomas1 said:


> Fixed.


TL;DR .


----------



## splitpost

Let me get this straight,if a member posts build threads and the like and is approached to do paid work by another member ,does that mean the builder must then become a sponsor or does that mean that any member thats not a sponsor has no right to post build threads ?


----------



## Metals406

splitpost said:


> Let me get this straight,if a member posts build threads and the like and is approached to do paid work by another member ,does that mean the builder must then become a sponsor or does that mean that any member thats not a sponsor has no right to post build threads ?



YES!


----------



## tlandrum

anyone can post a build thread. but if you post a build thread to solicit work then you need to be a sponsor. its not fair to sponsors of the site to pay to keep this place going if non paid advertising is happening. such as name dropping of non sponsors when people talk about where to get work done or where to buy stuff. that's always been the policy of arborist site. at one time if you name dropped a moderator would politely tell you its a no no. don't know if its still happening or not.


----------



## treesmith

Does anyone remember we were talking about spark arrestors and felling spikes/dogs in some forests, I said UK Forestry didn't like bumper spikes/felling dogs. I asked them if true and received this email today
Dear Andy

There is no policy per se against the use of felling dogs. However our trainers only introduce them to people learning to fell larger trees as this is where the benefits are clearer, and the technique can be taught to already experienced fellers. All we would frown upon is the use of any felling equipment that has not been covered specifically by training.

Regards

Paul

Paul Johnston Operations Manager Forest Enterprise England


----------



## HuskStihl

It's better if you imagine it with an English accent. Very proper.


----------



## treesmith

HuskStihl said:


> It's better if you imagine it with an English accent. Very proper.


Quite indeed


----------



## Mastermind

Dang it........emails stopped coming again. 

I'm not gonna mention it to Claudio though. I hate to see my posts deleted.


----------



## LowVolt

Mastermind said:


> Dang it........emails stopped coming again.
> 
> I'm not gonna mention it to Claudio though. I hate to see my posts deleted.


Did you read all the new posts???


----------



## Mastermind

I'm not real sure Rory. It's nearly impossible for me to keep up with this site anymore.


----------



## stihl sawing

tlandrum said:


> anyone can post a build thread. but if you post a build thread to solicit work then you need to be a sponsor. its not fair to sponsors of the site to pay to keep this place going if non paid advertising is happening. such as name dropping of non sponsors when people talk about where to get work done or where to buy stuff. that's always been the policy of arborist site. at one time if you name dropped a moderator would politely tell you its a no no. *don't know if its still happening or not*.


It does.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Mastermind said:


> Dang it........emails stopped coming again.
> 
> I'm not gonna mention it to Claudio though. I hate to see my posts deleted.


hmm, maybe you went over your quota.


----------



## MasterMech

Mastermind said:


> Dang it........emails stopped coming again.
> 
> I'm not gonna mention it to Claudio though. I hate to see my posts deleted.


Randy, 

I'm no expert but on a XenForo board, if you do not respond to an alert for a thread (other than one for likes) you will not receive another alert for the thread until you either respond to the most recent alert sent or post in that thread.

Hope it helps, hate to see you frustrated by software.

MM


----------



## windthrown

stihl sawing said:


> It does.


 
Did something else happen? <blink blink>

I am completely lost in this thread. The 661 has since been recalled by Stihl... Randy quit and then returned as an AS sponsor... the holidays have come and gone... and now the poor 661 thread is buried in mindless off topic thread fluff about sponsors, proper thread etiquette, site support, site criticism, vB vs XF forum tools, English training (do not use _falling dawgs?_), other site plugs, criticisms and references, the mentally disabled putting the hate on Randy's saw mods, etc. etc.




Its like typing to keep up with the Kardashians. And yes, I take full responsibility for some of the tangents myself... but... maybe it is time to bail out and lock this thread? No offense to Randy... or the site mods... or other sponsors... or the poor 661 being modified or its owner.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

windthrown said:


> Did something else happen? <blink blink>
> 
> I am completely lost in this thread. The 661 has since been recalled by Stihl... Randy quit and then returned as an AS sponsor... the holidays have come and gone... and now the poor 661 thread is buried in mindless off topic thread fluff about sponsors, proper thread etiquette, site support, site criticism, vB vs XF forum tools, English training (do not use _falling dawgs?_), other site plugs, criticisms and references, the mentally disabled putting the hate on Randy's saw mods, etc. etc.
> 
> View attachment 326369
> 
> 
> Its like typing to keep up with the Kardashians. And yes, I take full responsibility for some of the tangents myself... but... maybe it is time to bail out and lock this thread? No offense to Randy... or the site mods... or other sponsors... or the poor 661 being modified or its owner.
> 
> View attachment 326370



right...so, what's the problem?


----------



## MCW

MasterMech said:


> Randy,
> 
> I'm no expert but on a XenForo board, if you do not respond to an alert for a thread (other than one for likes) you will not receive another alert for the thread until you either respond to the most recent alert sent or post in that thread.
> 
> Hope it helps, hate to see you frustrated by software.
> 
> MM



It's been happening to me as well. All of a sudden it dawns on you that you haven't seen any updates from a thread you're subscribed to. You check the thread and bingo, another 4 pages have been added and you didn't even know.


----------



## Mastermind

MasterMech said:


> Randy,
> 
> I'm no expert but on a XenForo board, if you do not respond to an alert for a thread (other than one for likes) you will not receive another alert for the thread until you either respond to the most recent alert sent or post in that thread.
> 
> Hope it helps, hate to see you frustrated by software.
> 
> MM





MCW said:


> It's been happening to me as well. All of a sudden it dawns on you that you haven't seen any updates from a thread you're subscribed to. You check the thread and bingo, another 4 pages have been added and you didn't even know.



And these issues are enough to make me really hate this new software.....


----------



## MCW

I agree the thread is off on a different tangent but Randy was going to link to another 661 build thread a while back.
The no falling spikes in England had me very confused. They are important on small or large trees and on small or large saws.


----------



## Mastermind

When I get a new top end for the 661, I'll start a new thread including the first videos and pics.....


----------



## Mastermind

We'll call it Take 2.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

Mastermind said:


> We'll call it, Take 2.


is that in reference to a 'new' saw thread or the # of pills for headaches every 4hrs?


----------



## Mastermind

I've lost track of things here.....and the headaches are lessening.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair

Well look what the dog dragged back in. Hey Randy 

I dont subscribe to threads anywhere. I choose to go back and catch up when I feel like it at my pace. Just read where I left off. They all do that automatically.


----------



## Mastermind

Well Kevin, I do business on the site and the ad in my sig is my way of advertizing. If the thread is moving, and I don't post.....my sig ad is lost.

Making that understood has been like pulling teeth.....


----------



## bryanr2




----------



## komatsuvarna

Hooray 395xp!


----------



## bryanr2

that's what im thinking!


----------



## windthrown

MCW said:


> I agree the thread is off on a different tangent but Randy was going to link to another 661 build thread a while back.
> The no falling spikes in England had me very confused. They are important on small or large trees and on small or large saws.


 
They have been listening to SawTroll, who as I recall, removes his saw spikes as a nuisance. Me, I lever the crap out of my saw dawgs in cuts. The UK falling method is like this thread: confusing, contradictory, and people seem to thrive on the controversy and mud slinging. The politics of chainsaws.

Aussie Aussie Aussie!


----------



## komatsuvarna

bryanr2 said:


> that's what im thinking!



I loved mine like no other saw I've had, My used and abused back wouldn't let me use it much though......


----------



## Mastermind

Give me time fellers......I'm not giving up so easy. 

Hooray Stihl !!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bryanr2

I still havent made a single cut with the 395? I brought home a slew of logs on Saturday so soon I hope. Too dang busy.


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> Give me time fellers......I'm not giving up so easy.
> 
> *Hooray Stihl *!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote
> 
> *BAH HUMBUG!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jus kiddin, I like me some Steels too *


----------



## komatsuvarna

bryanr2 said:


> I still havent made a single cut with the 395? I brought home a slew of logs on Saturday so soon I hope. Too dang busy.


 YOU SLACKER!!


----------



## Mastermind

I did a compro between this 661 (and it's not all it can be) and a 066 I just built. It cut a 21 second cut, and the 066 cut a 22. The 395 knocked of a 18.something.


----------



## shootingarts

Randy,

I noticed your new sig ad doesn't mention the requirement to run 40:1 or more oil to gas mix. Been doing some cyphering after I finally got my calculator thawed out. I'm hoping to get a saw to you this year but my mix is 40.13142857142857:1 when I include stabilizer. Would you mind putting in your ad that 40.13142857142857:1 or more oil is OK?

Thanks,
Hu


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> I did a compro between this 661 (and it's not all it can be) and a 066 I just built. It cut a 21 second cut, and the 066 cut a 22. The 395 knocked of a 18.something.



That's pretty good considering the 661 is mild....and I know what your 066s and 395s are!
I need to come run the 661....and more importantly shoot the breeze with you, Its been awhile .


----------



## Mastermind

The new ad was just a quick something I put together......this new software sucks so bad. Who knows what will happen.....


----------



## Mastermind

komatsuvarna said:


> That's pretty good considering the 661 is mild....and I know what your 066s and 395s are!
> I need to come run the 661....and more importantly shoot the breeze with you, Its been awhile .



Get you ass up here.......but wait till the weather is better. The roads here are really bad....


----------



## MacLaren

Mastermind said:


> Get you ass up here.......but wait till the weather is better. The roads here are really bad....



whats the temp there tonight Randy?
its 0 here at the house. -5 at my dads and -14 on ski slope. gonna get colder as the night goes on I believe.


----------



## komatsuvarna

Mastermind said:


> Get you ass up here.......but wait till the weather is better. The roads here are really bad....



I'd say. We got a little skift of snow, not much. But it's colder than a well diggers ass in the middle of February right right now! 7 degrees...coldest my little brain can remember.


----------



## mdavlee

I hope to make another trip before I go away for 6-7 weeks again.


----------



## Mastermind

It's -2 here Paul.


----------



## MacLaren

Mastermind said:


> It's -2 here Paul.



dang. its cold all over.


----------



## Locust Cutter

komatsuvarna said:


> Hooray 395xp!



What no 9010 Love? I mean, I realize that this thread is modding the holy grail 661 for more holiness but jeesh...
(I did love my 660 when it wasn't wearing it's 36" bar and the 1 395 I've ran pulled like I thought the 660 should have). I would love to play with one of Randy's ported 395s and the new 661. I would bet that had my 660 been ported by Randy or Brad or... I would have loved it a bit more, oiling notwithstanding... Everyone should get the Aussie oiler.

Now how do I get back to TN???


----------



## mdavlee

Drive east?


----------



## bryanr2

I know right? I ran the 044 a lot on Saturday cutting the logs down to 18' lengths so I could load em up on my trailer. It's easier to make a few cuts in the wood lot at my friend's house and transport the logs long and then process them at home. I brought 11 18' Oak logs home in one trip. A whole lotta btu's in that bunch.


----------



## mdavlee

I want to come help buck them up. That's a lot of fun there.


----------



## komatsuvarna

bryanr2 said:


> I know right? I ran the 044 a lot on Saturday cutting the logs down to 18' lengths so I could load em up on my trailer. It's easier to make a few cuts in the wood lot at my friend's house and transport the logs long and then process them at home. I brought 11 18' Oak logs home in one trip. A whole lotta btu's in that bunch.



Yup, I try to bring my wood home in log form too. Nothing easier than loading 18 rounds at one time in 1 log!


----------



## bryanr2

mdavlee said:


> I want to come help buck them up. That's a lot of fun there.


I have at least 2 more similar loads to bring in and then I'll shoot ya a text. Probably be a few weeks. I can only go pull on the weekends and it seems like it always rains on Friday. This past Sat worked flawlessly.


----------



## mdavlee

Sounds good. Maybe we can get the chimp out with that 661 to come cut.


----------



## lmbrman

MacLaren said:


> dang. its cold all over.



that's warm Paul ! enjoy the heat wave for me, windchill close to -55 today

-dave

hey- you guys in the weather forum are awful friendly


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair

Mastermind said:


> Well Kevin, I do business on the site and the ad in my sig is my way of advertizing. If the thread is moving, and I don't post.....my sig ad is lost.
> 
> Making that understood has been like pulling teeth.....




I'm lost, but we better not talk about it here.  Later


----------



## windthrown

Mastermind said:


> It's -2 here Paul.


 
Balmy!


----------



## MacLaren

lmbrman said:


> that's warm Paul ! enjoy the heat wave for me, windchill close to -55 today
> 
> -dave
> 
> hey- you guys in the weather forum are awful friendly


...wow. thats COLD.


----------



## lmbrman

MacLaren said:


> ...wow. thats COLD.



not in front of the fireplace it isn't


----------



## Locust Cutter

It's amazing what a Hedge fueled stove will do for warming cold-soaked bones...


----------



## Stihl 041S

Locust Cutter said:


> It's amazing what a Hedge fueled stove will do for warming cold-soaked bones...


Yeah knots of hedge hold a special place in the woodpile of my heart. Thru the night wood. P


----------



## lmbrman

shucks, all I got is oak- suddenly I feel cold


----------



## Mastermind

Hickory is our hedge here.......loading the stove with that now.


----------



## tlandrum

komatsuvarna said:


> Hooray 395xp!


yup yup


----------



## Naked Arborist

Switched back to white oak last night. damn nasty wind last night! Good sawin weather.


----------



## tree monkey

Typhke said:


> Ok, credits go to *joe_indi* on FF*,* original poster. But I'll take over the content:
> 
> View attachment 325570
> 
> View attachment 325571


 cutting the 3rd pole is crap info, just got done doing one and it doesn't change a thing


----------



## Mastermind

Even if it did stop the rev limiting, I would hate to lose the timing advance.


----------



## Naked Arborist

Mastermind said:


> Even if it did stop the rev limiting, I would hate to lose the timing advance.



I want to know why people have soo soooo much trouble tuning a rev limited saw??? Please clue me in....

Losing the correct timing curve is like, "now I need to shoot a hole in my other foot". I think the MS361 coil has the most advance under the curve plus the top end retard. MS460 is close and who might know what is in the curve of a 261, 441 and 461? I know the base initial timing is higher on the older models with no curve at all.

Hey Randy:
Do you know where the base timing is on the 441, 461 and 661 before the curve starts?


----------



## Mastermind

No sir......I do not. 

Durand checked several saws a while back with a timing light.......and I did a few just to see where a couple were. They were all pretty close on the ones I checked......ended up about 27 btdc wot.


----------



## Naked Arborist

Very good to know, Thanks.

Most of the older stuff I tested was closer to 24*. One of these days people will figure out we build saw for the end users not numbers or noise just a reliable work tool to hack away with daily. Some guys run 18" .325 some run 28" .404. The same saw with different wears needs different attention and different tune. This must be taken into consideration for the cutting conditions. Some how that usually gets missed.


----------



## Naked Arborist

Mastermind said:


> No sir.......



"Sir"
LMAO. you got the wrong guy.

Bump


----------



## HuskStihl

OK, so did the new cylinder arrive from Chad yet? Eagerly awaiting the 395 vs 661 showdownopcorn:


----------



## Mastermind

Chad tells me mid February.


----------



## HuskStihl

Mastermind said:


> Chad tells me mid February.


Nooooooooooooooooooooooo..........!


----------



## mdavlee

Mastermind said:


> Chad tells me mid February.



Well I can't like that


----------



## Mastermind

Me either.


----------



## Mastermind

Me either.


----------



## Stihl working hard

mdavlee said:


> Well I can't like that


Ough no


----------



## HuskStihl

I mean come on! This is Randy mastermind Evans we're talking about! I was expecting him of hand forge a new cylinder out of an old bicycle or something.....


----------



## Mastermind

Yeah......I'm pretty bummed out about it too.


----------



## Dieselshawn

Stihl likely putting road blocks up trying to prevent the cylinder from getting to mastermind and getting it back?


----------



## MasterMech

Mastermind said:


> Me either.


You're gonna forget where you put the darn saw by the time they ship the cyl........


----------



## chadihman

Mastermind said:


> Chad tells me mid February.


Don't shoot the messenger!


----------



## Mastermind

Chad, you're a good egg for seeking the jug in the first place. We all know it ain't your fault.

I could tweak this jug some more, but I really need to go at this a completely different way, if I plan on learning anything.


----------



## singinwoodwackr

MM you should do something similar to what the wine industry does..."futures" 
Ask for some sort of 'future' payment from each one who is contemplating getting one of the new fangled saws built by you and build up an account for each saw. That fund would then go to purchasing the needed parts for R&D. Once you get things figured out and the orders start coming in that 'fee' would then be deducted from the OTD total of a build.


----------



## Jabuol

Mastermind said:


> Chad, you're a good egg for seeking the jug in the first place. We all know it ain't your fault.
> 
> I could tweak this jug some more, but I really need to go at this a completely different way, if I plan on learning anything.



Stihl recalled the saw but jugs are still available?


----------



## Stihl working hard

Jabuol said:


> Stihl recalled the saw but jugs are still available?


Has anyone heard yet when the saws will be available I really won't my new 661 getting very toeyopcorn:


----------



## windthrown

Jabuol said:


> Stihl recalled the saw but jugs are still available?


 
The idear expressed here is that jugs are not yet available... lest MM would be grinding on it now. Word is that the recall was due to cylinder problems.


----------



## windthrown

Stihl working hard said:


> Has anyone heard yet when the saws will be available I really won't my new 661 getting very toeyopcorn:


 
Nothing specific yet that I have heard here or in the UK. On the German sites they are asking the same questions, and some insiders there say that the 661 will not be available until at least the end of February, and more likely early Q2 (April timeframe). Stihl is basically stonewalling globally on the 661 issues and any re-release date. A few new 661s are reported to be for sale on shelves in the UK and the US (pre recall saws).

.


----------



## Mastermind

New jug for the saw, different approach to the timing numbers.......bolting the jug on now.


----------



## luckydad

Mastermind said:


> New jug for the saw, different approach to the timing numbers.......bolting the jug on now.


The whole world is watching !!


----------



## luckydad

opcorn:


luckydad said:


> The whole world is watching !!


U done with it yet !!


----------



## Mastermind

This time I lowered the exhaust like I do on the MS660 and the 390XP........I'm hoping to see gobs of torque.


----------



## chadihman

So what'd you think of those stock upper transfer ports?


----------



## Mastermind

Sharp as hell on the edges, and no bevels. 

What I did on this build was cut .030 from the squish, cut the base to get the clearance down to .023. Then I just flattened off the upper transfers so they all open at once, and lowered the exhaust to 100 degrees. I'm using the modded muffler first, then switching back to a stock one, to see if there were gains in the muffler or not.


----------



## Hedgerow

....


----------



## Trx250r180

Just gonna pull up a chair opcorn:


----------



## HuskStihl

For ****s sake Randy! It's only four bolts!!!! Where's the video already???!!!!


----------



## redbull660

why do you do this to us?!?!?


----------



## MacLaren

I hope she turns out super strong.


----------



## 7sleeper

Can't wait for a comparison video between the 090 and 661.... 

7


----------



## big t double

redbull660 said:


> why do you do this to us?!?!?


same reason a dog licks his own bo-zack....because he can.


----------



## Stihlman441

opcorn:


----------



## Mastermind

HuskStihl said:


> For ****s sake Randy! It's only four bolts!!!! Where's the video already???!!!!



Welp Jon, I had to find something to cut.........then in knocking that something off the stump I hit something and killed the chain. Welp, I come back and fixed the chain.......then went back to the chunk of wood and made a video. That video will be up in about ten minutes.



redbull660 said:


> why do you do this to us?!?!?





big t double said:


> same reason a dog licks his own bo-zack....because he can.



Repped!!!!!!



MacLaren said:


> I hope she turns out super strong.



It's like it oughta be now Paul.


----------



## Mastermind

5 more minutes.....


----------



## chadihman

Sweet! Can't wait to see the video


----------



## Trx250r180

5 more minutes.....










Mastermind, 5 minutes ago



ok times up


----------



## Mastermind

This cut was about the fifth or sixth.....it was getting stronger with each cut. I'd love to run it after 50 tanks or so.


----------



## VinceGU05

it lives again!!!


----------



## cutforfun

U going to send that jug back to Germany, then they can fix there porting along with the other screw up they had


----------



## treeslayer2003

what where ya cutting, red oak?


----------



## Mastermind

Wild Cherry.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Mastermind said:


> Wild Cherry.


 even better, its hard...........you shoulda sold that for a log.
saw rips by the way.


----------



## Mastermind

It was just 5 - 6 feet long then hit a crotch.


----------



## 7sleeper

The 090 looked stronger at half the rpm....



Great video!

Thanks!

7


----------



## Mastermind

It did. That's the truth.


----------



## HuskStihl

Mastermind said:


> It was just 5 - 6 feet long then got hit in the crotch.





Seems to be a lot of that going around recently


----------



## HuskStihl

So........What's it like compared to the Ex Peeee?


----------



## bryanr2

opcorn:


----------



## Mastermind

I'm done with this saw. It's in a box and leaving in the morning. I'm very happy with the way it runs now.


----------



## Dieselshawn

Congratulations Randy, on successfully bringing out the beast from within the 661! 

And quite likely the first person to do so.


----------



## Mastermind

That's hand filed round ground chain BTW.......I didn't have time to set it up with a square chain.


----------



## nmurph

Mastermind said:


> Wild Cherry.



Play that funky music, white boy!!!!


----------



## nmurph

HuskStihl said:


> View attachment 336245
> 
> Seems to be a lot of that going around recently



Well played, sir.


----------



## bryanr2

Mastermind said:


> I'm done with this saw. It's in a box and leaving in the morning. I'm very happy with the way it runs now.



Now that you've figured it out, can you give us a few comments on what ya like about it, what ya dont like, how it compares to the 390xp, 395xp (this is important bc size-wise it falls in between these 2 and could be a venerable compromise between the two)


----------



## bryanr2

baiscally a summation of the thread....... so I dont have to reread 60 pages.opcorn:


----------



## Mastermind

I only put a couple of tanks thru it, so I'm hardly an expert. It's a nice saw, spring AV, plenty of power, M-Tronic......


----------



## blsnelling

Sounds like she's holding RPMs in the wood real nice there Randy. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it as well. How's it compare to the 660 and 395? I know...hard questions to answer, when you don't have them long.


----------



## mdavlee

Sounds better.


----------



## Mastermind

I've never been a fan of the 660. It's too fat, and too slow. The 395XP is too damn heavy. I think Stihl hit a home run here.


----------



## Mastermind

Those rakers are at .040 and it's wearing an 8 pin.


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> I've never been a fan of the 660. It's too fat, and too slow. The 395XP is too damn heavy. I think Stihl hit a home run here.


In other words, I need one?


----------



## whitedogone

Is that a 24 or 28 on it?


----------



## HuskStihl

What kind of coinage is required to own a ported 661?


----------



## HuskStihl

The 394/395 are monsterbeasts. I'd like to see how that does against a well ported 385/390
Wrong bout the bar


----------



## Mastermind

whitedogone said:


> Is that a 24 or 28 on it?



28" 8 pin


----------



## bryanr2

blsnelling said:


> In other words, I need one?


Sign me up.


----------



## Stihlman441

Mastermind said:


> I'm done with this saw. It's in a box and leaving in the morning. I'm very happy with the way it runs now.


 
Hang on ya dont get away with that so easy.
Whats the go
Is it better than a 660
Is it werth the hang around for ?
Do i order one ?
Talk to me.


----------



## bryanr2

+1 what he said.opcorn: especially "is it worth the wait"


----------



## Locust Cutter

bryanr2 said:


> Sign me up.


You already have a 395 though... What would you need with a 661?


----------



## bryanr2

look at the sig.... need has nothing to do with it.

I dont smoke, I dont drink, I dont gamble, I dont have any recreational toys. I do like tools, outdoor equipt, and I am addicted to chainsaws.Chainsaws are my drug of choice.


----------



## Locust Cutter

I still want a 395xp and no I don't "Need" one either. Of course I need my shoulder to finish healing u so I can give my new to me 9010 a good workout...


----------



## Mastermind

I had to get this saw back to it's owner, I'm sure everyone here understands that. I've had it since early December.

If you like spring AV.......this saw is for you. I like the way it handles better than either a 660, or a 395.....

Even stock it blows the doors off of the 660.....


----------



## Trx250r180

Mastermind said:


> I had to get this saw back to it's owner, I'm sure everyone here understands that. I've had it since early December.
> 
> If you like spring AV.......this saw is for you. I like the way it handles better than either a 660, or a 395.....
> 
> Even stock it blows the doors off of the 660.....




Would you compare it like the jump in tourque from the 460 to a 461 was ,to the 660 to the 661 ?


----------



## chadihman

Understood. I take your word seriously.


----------



## Mastermind

Trx250r180 said:


> Would you compare it like the jump in tourque from the 460 to a 461 was ,to the 660 to the 661 ?



Yes, that's a good way to put it. I just hope that the saw suffers no problems.


----------



## Mastermind

Here's my spec sheet for the MS661

MS661C-M

Stock:
Ex: 98°
Tr: 123 - 128°
In: 81°

Ported:
Ex: 100°
Tr: 124°
In: 84°

Cut .030 from squish band
Compression: 180psi
Squish: .023


----------



## shootingarts

Mastermind said:


> Here's my spec sheet for the MS661
> 
> MS661C-M
> 
> Stock:
> Ex: 98°
> Tr: 123 - 128°
> In: 81°
> 
> Ported:
> Ex: 100°
> Tr: 124°
> In: 84°
> 
> Cut .030 from squish band
> Compression: 180psi
> Squish: .023




Said very seriously, I do admire the way you put your numbers out there to share knowledge. Gives others a good starting point. Of course those numbers are far from everything as people found when I gave them the cam numbers off my circle track cars.

Hu


----------



## Mastermind

Port shapes play a huge roll in these engines as well Hu. For instance, on many engines I will not lower the intake by grinding. I like to maintain a high case compression in a work saw, so that transfer velocity is as high as possible. That means that the time between the intake port closing, and the transfer ports opening needs to be kept constant between many models, even though transfer heights vary. Lowering the intake, and raising the transfers can kill some models. The MS461 and the MS661 both appear to be this way. In these saws, I alter the shape of the intake, rather than the height to get the time/area I'm needing.


----------



## LegDeLimber

I still want to see someone make some foam castings of a few ports.
They would sorta look like cores for lost wax casting, just made from something flexible
so as to be able to pull them out when the material sets.

I'm waiting for the yearly termite inspection dude to show up, So yall may get some goofy thoughts outta me.
Guess I should go move some things out of the way instead of reading here.


----------



## shootingarts

Mastermind said:


> Port shapes play a huge roll in these engines as well Hu. For instance, on many engines I will not lower the intake by grinding. I like to maintain a high case compression in a work saw, so that transfer velocity is as high as possible. That means that the time between the intake port closing, and the transfer ports opening needs to be kept constant between many models, even though transfer heights vary. Lowering the intake, and raising the transfers can kill some models. The MS461 and the MS661 both appear to be this way. In these saws, I alter the shape of the intake, rather than the height to get the time/area I'm needing.




Randy,

Thanks for all the additional info. I have to try whittling on a two cycle just for grins sometime but my long term plan, at least at the moment, is to lay hands on a 661 when the money gets right and let you do the full treatment after it has some run time. Everybody needs one pet in their barn!

Two strokes are far more complicated than four strokes. Like a lot of things, less doesn't always mean simpler. I can work on intake and exhaust separately and play a lot of games with a car engine that the saw engine won't let me do. That was what happened with my cam numbers, others didn't realize that everything from my carburetor to my exhaust were built around that cam and those heads. Without those heads and the other things I had done the cam didn't mean much.

The two cycles remind me of a 1911. A 1911 is so simple it took me several years of working on them before I understood them. John Browning was generations ahead of his time.

Hu


----------



## blsnelling

Mastermind said:


> Here's my spec sheet for the MS661
> 
> MS661C-M
> 
> Stock:
> Ex: 98°
> Tr: 123 - 128°
> In: 81°
> 
> Ported:
> Ex: 100°
> Tr: 124°
> In: 84°
> 
> Cut .030 from squish band
> Compression: 180psi
> Squish: .023


What were the numbers you didn't like in the other cylinder? I think you may have shared them earlier, but hate to dig through 60 pages!


----------



## Mastermind

98
122
85


----------



## windthrown

Well, maybe Stihl HQ will read this post and solve their damn problems with the 661!


----------



## 7sleeper

windthrown said:


> Well, maybe Stihl HQ will read this post and solve their damn problems with the 661!


You are forgetting ... _*it's only the plating from saws on the oversee market*_...now which side of the see...



7


----------



## windthrown

7sleeper said:


> You are forgetting ... _*it's only the plating from saws on the oversee market*_...now which side of the see...
> 
> 
> 
> 7


 
Yes yes... I have read some of your posts on der German site. To correct your English though: its overseas, and sea... tough see could be a pun I guess.

Problem with Stihl on the 661 not-a-recall is that they have been like Toyota with all the secrecy, and saying that it is a non-issue, and that the saws are all bad someplace else. I know from reading the domestic and international forums that there were bad 661 saws in Germany, France, the UK, and the US. Dealers here are getting pissed off at Stihl over the lack of information on this issue, either from the distributors or the mother company. Users in the UK, Germany and France are of similar opinion.


----------



## redbull660

what I don't get is they field tested the 661 for like 2yrs before going into production. So now it's in production these problems come to light??!?!?!??!?!?!


----------



## windthrown

redbull660 said:


> what I don't get is they field tested the 661 for like 2yrs before going into production. So now it's in production these problems come to light??!?!?!??!?!?!


 
The field tested saws are all limited build prototype saws, and many have variation in design. At some point the final design is locked in and they go into production. Then the early production saws are quality tested to be up to spec. Then they go into full production and saws are quick tested and shipped out. If parts that go into the saws vary from the first runs, as seems to be the case here (with cylinder plating, or piston crown material, not sure yet) and failures occur, they are called back and torn down and or re-tested. I bet they found a design flaw or flaws in some part or parts that had passed tolerances but they failed in use. So they have to redesign those parts. My read anyway.


----------



## windthrown

You can read my latest updates over on the 661 recall thread, but according to some more reliable sources in Europe, the 661 is in engineering re-design and _*the 661 re-release is now being pushed back to an August, 2014 release date*_. They are ramped up on 660 production again and new 660 saws will be shopped to the UK (and presumably the US) starting next week. As a result of that news, I have to surmise that all the existing 661s out there are going to be a first limited production run. As reported by owners in France, Germany and the UK, some more 661s are failing in time after being used. They ran like rapes apes when new, but became turds over time. Many are still being run and have full power though, so failures are not consistent. Hard to tell, as Stihl is not being transparent about 661 failures and these reports are from people like us using them posting on forums like this one.


----------



## HuskStihl

I can't wait until the masterminded 661shows up at a GTG. I'd love to see some big wood comparison vids with the other big saws


----------



## windthrown

It looks like it will be a rare limited production modified saw now as well.


----------



## HuskStihl

Although if I had a masterminded 661 I wouldn't put it in wood next to some chump with a ported 394. Be like putting your Ferrari on the strip next to a souped up camaro. Nothing to gain there


----------



## redbull660

OH SNAP!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 7sleeper

redbull660 said:


> what I don't get is they field tested the 661 for like 2yrs before going into production. So now it's in production these problems come to light??!?!?!??!?!?!


Are we talking now about the Husqvarna Autotune line of saws....



7


----------



## chadihman

Maybe they had an idea and came up with a better running 661. Maybe a mechanical issue is bs. I can't wait to see what changed when they release.


----------



## splitpost

It would be real interesting to see what is really going on,i say this because all the failing 661s and still no hard facts ???
Maybe i got this all wrong ,but
There's plenty of forums out there with like minded members yet no one has reported a failure or even taken pics ..............dunno seems odd you know,lots of hearsay


----------



## 7sleeper

I just hope they bring out the direct injection 661!




That would finally be something like pulling down your pants and showing the rear end in direction of Husqvarna....








I mean the technique is now proven in their cut off saws so what are they waiting for!?

7


----------



## 7sleeper

windthrown said:


> Yes yes... I have read some of your posts on der German site. To correct your English though: its overseas, and sea... tough see could be a pun I guess.
> 
> Problem with Stihl on the 661 not-a-recall is that they have been like Toyota with all the secrecy, and saying that it is a non-issue, and that the saws are all bad someplace else. I know from reading the domestic and international forums that there were bad 661 saws in Germany, France, the UK, and the US. Dealers here are getting pissed off at Stihl over the lack of information on this issue, either from the distributors or the mother company. Users in the UK, Germany and France are of similar opinion.


Oh no my english...  ...and me a pun, I could never be so smart, at maximum I could be a bum! 

I read similar threads that many are irritated about the issue. Redelivering the 660 is a bad idea in my eyes!

7


----------



## Twisted Priorities

LegDeLimber said:


> I still want to see someone make some foam castings of a few ports.
> They would sorta look like cores for lost wax casting, just made from something flexible
> so as to be able to pull them out when the material sets.
> 
> I'm waiting for the yearly termite inspection dude to show up, So yall may get some goofy thoughts outta me.
> Guess I should go move some things out of the way instead of reading here.



I use a two part flexible moulding compound from my dentist to make patterns for digitizing or duplicating.


----------



## windthrown

chadihman said:


> Maybe they had an idea and came up with a better running 661. Maybe a mechanical issue is bs. I can't wait to see what changed when they release.


 
I doubt that. They would have just come out with a 661 type II 'improved model' in another year or so in that case. This is a huge issue and one that they are trying to keep a tight lid on. It is costing them a lot of money to stop production on the 661 and go back into production on the 660. It is also costing them dearly to redesign and revise parts and get them made. Never mind all the peeved Stihl users and would-be buyers. Instead of luring Husky owners away from the likes of the 395, they are driving more people toward them.


----------



## windthrown

splitpost said:


> It would be real interesting to see what is really going on,i say this because all the failing 661s and still no hard facts ???
> Maybe i got this all wrong ,but
> There's plenty of forums out there with like minded members yet no one has reported a failure or even taken pics ..............dunno seems odd you know,lots of hearsay


 
What is there to take pix of? You break the saw under warranty, it goes back to the dealer to fix. They collect and ship them back to Germany. End of story. It is quite typical and intentional with any type of failed new model product or recall to keep it under wraps. Also if there were no issues, there would be 661s popping up all over the place. They are not. Also failures have been reported... in the UK, in the US, and in Germany.

Oh, it must be an anti-Stihl conspiracy! Not...


----------



## LegDeLimber

Most Governments, their militia, their police, heck even their nonexistent spy agencies 
Can't seem to not leak a photo or a report.
Yet Stihl can prevent any anyone from dropping the muffler
or pointing a camera down the sparkplug hole 
(and I have personally done the sparkplug peep on other saws with a simple point & shoot)
before taking a saw back to the dealer 
aannnd 
can even keep a Worldwide gaggle of dealers from leaking a snapshot?

Fellers, I have to admit that I am darned impressed by that!!

I'm being a bit flippant here, but still, It's gotta make a fellow wonder. no?
Heck, there's gonna be a fine suspense-drama-action movie
that could be made from this.


----------



## splitpost

LegDeLimber said:


> Most Governments, their militia, their police, heck even their nonexistent spy agencies
> Can't seem to not leak a photo or a report.
> Yet Stihl can prevent any anyone from dropping the muffler
> or pointing a camera down the sparkplug hole
> (and I have personally done the sparkplug peep on other saws with a simple point & shoot)
> before taking a saw back to the dealer
> aannnd
> can even keep a Worldwide gaggle of dealers from leaking a snapshot?
> 
> Fellers, I have to admit that I am darned impressed by that!!
> 
> I'm being a bit flippant here, but still, It's gotta make a fellow wonder. no?
> Heck, there's gonna be a fine suspense-drama-action movie
> that could be made from this.


Thats what i'm talking about,you know what ,
I say this to STIHL "PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN",their someone had to say it


----------



## 7sleeper

They have AS on the ignore list...

7


----------



## windthrown

splitpost said:


> Thats what i'm talking about,you know what ,
> I say this to STIHL "PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN",their someone had to say it


 
Yes, its a giant CONSPIRACY! Globally, people that speak completely different languages and deal with completely different distribution channels masterminded a scheme to say that a lot of new 661 all pretty much break in the same way, and at the same time. And Stihl dealerships throughout the world pretty much say the same thing. Sure... and just by sheer coincidence Stihl starts shipping 660 saws again, after they stopped production. I doubt that any photos would convince any "PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN", types anyway.

BTW: Photos can as easily be falsified as anything else. Actually far easier with a digital camera and Photoshop. So I do not understand the demand for posted photos or the idea that they somehow support claims for anything.


----------



## windthrown

The _661 Recall Conspiracy_ dance.


----------



## redbull660

can someone photo shop me a MS991 !??!


----------



## pro94lt

Who's gonna pull apart a 1000 dollar unit to snap pictures of something inside the engine and void the warranty? If you say you would show me a picture


----------



## mdavlee

pro94lt said:


> Who's gonna pull apart a 1000 dollar unit to snap pictures of something inside the engine and void the warranty? If you say you would show me a picture



I would if I had it. I've pulled apart 5 new 90cc saws already.


----------



## pro94lt

I'm sure you would I probably would but I have no pictures and have never had an issue on a large 1000 dollar saw. What issues did you have on the 90cc saws?


----------



## HuskStihl

pro94lt said:


> I'm sure you would I probably would but I have no pictures and have never had an issue on a large 1000 dollar saw. What issues did you have on the 90cc saws?


He was prolly bothered by the lack of stock finger ports. I'd be surprised if you could get a 661 for $1000


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## pro94lt

Oh I know we all pull new saws apart and take a look I should have said a new saw that just scattered. .. The average joe sure isn't he doesn't even know how to sharpen a chain or what a spark plug is. I just put my t540xp back together. Guys who live one here may think it's normal to open up a new saw but in reality it's a very very small percentage of users who may actually do it.


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## mdavlee

pro94lt said:


> I'm sure you would I probably would but I have no pictures and have never had an issue on a large 1000 dollar saw. What issues did you have on the 90cc saws?



Well I pulled apart a couple 660s and 390s cause they just sucked stock. 



redbull660 said:


> well one of you experts should make a youtube video showing how to do it.



Someone send me one I'll gladly pull it apart and take pictures.


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## LegDeLimber

In regards to examining a "new" saw, here's a bit of my story.

During the adventure I had with the Poulan pp5020, I came home with and checked the comp on the second saw.
BEFORE any gas and oil of mine touched it.
Strait out of the box, compression was somewhere in the 80's (psi).
I dropped the muffler and grabbed my tripod and a light.
The camera I used has limited manual settings, So you often have to set the focus
with a false target then swing the camera back onto subject...yada yada.
Stuff that I now lack the fine motor control to do freehand and envy the active saw builders/Porters for having that deft hand.

anyhow after finding the 2nd saw in the conditon shown in these pics
I put carried the few hand tools needed to drop the mufler
along with me to return the 2nd saw.
Back at the store I simply pointed out that it would save a lot of time for everyone IF I just looked the next one over before hauling it home
And then we all get to go through this same two hours of calling warranty
call centers and issuing instore credit cards and so on...

The guy nodded in agreement and I unboxed the saw in a corner of the service desk area.
After few mins to unbox, remove the sparkplug and drop the muffler
I shined a penlight into the plug hole and saw more lumpy plating 
and some scars.
I reported what I saw to the store staff and said I'd preffer to try the
450 rancher instead.
On a general note, the 450 rancher is up to around 10 or so tanks of fuel now
and seems to be getting stronger (yay).


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## LegDeLimber

Since my movie night with big Sis got shifted, I'm here to help derail.
So here's a couple of shots inside that 1st pp5020 You can see the lumps in the cylinder wall.
I figure it was just a sloppy wash job prior to the plating step.

No one even wanted the pp5020 back, so It's sitting here still.
If I find a day that I can throw a few bucks at it I might just do a revival on it.
I mean I did think it was worth buying in the first place, right??


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## Chris-PA

Mastermind said:


> Port shapes play a huge roll in these engines as well Hu. For instance, on many engines I will not lower the intake by grinding. I like to maintain a high case compression in a work saw, so that transfer velocity is as high as possible. That means that the time between the intake port closing, and the transfer ports opening needs to be kept constant between many models, even though transfer heights vary. Lowering the intake, and raising the transfers can kill some models. The MS461 and the MS661 both appear to be this way. In these saws, I alter the shape of the intake, rather than the height to get the time/area I'm needing.


Thanks for that perspective. I guess the intake must be open just long enough enough to get the full volume of air into the case, but no longer, so that the intake closes sooner and allows the case to be pressurized. It's a balance between having a long enough duration to get the volume in vs. having enough pressure/velocity.

It would seem a reed valve would have a big advantage, as the intake event would not be symmetrical and the case could begin pressurizing as soon as it stopped drawing intake air. But then you'd still have the restriction and finite response time of the reed valve.


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## Mastermind

It's all about finding the sweet spot......I thought I was building some pretty stout saws two years ago, but looking back thru my notes from that time shows me how much better I understand the whole induction process now. The saws I'm doing today are in a whole different league, and when one isn't up the par (like the first attempt on this 661) I know it in the first couple of cuts.


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## Chris-PA

Mastermind said:


> It's all about finding the sweet spot......I thought I was building some pretty stout saws two years ago, but looking back thru my notes from that time shows me how much better I understand the whole induction process now. The saws I'm doing today are in a whole different league, and when one isn't up the par (like the first attempt on this 661) I know it in the first couple of cuts.


So are you using that case compression angle as a rule of thumb, or is it more based on experience with a given type of saw/porting design?

The other thing I'm still trying to understand is just why transfer velocity is so important - what the effect is and why it helps with power. It's clear that is where the manufacturers are going, with crank stuffers and reduced volume cases and transfers.


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## Mastermind

It varies with case volume.....at least from what I'm able to learn in my little operation. Also, the venturi size of the carb in relation to displacement can change timing numbers. The best thing I've found to use as a learning tool so far, is to always study the original design. I like to try to understand why the designer (who has far more R&D and computer models to draw from) did things the way they did. Almost always you will see that there is a relationship between case volume, carb size, and displacement playing a role in timing number selection. 

Many times, just tweaking the design will net far more usable gains than attempting to reinvent it.


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## big t double

so are you actually measuring case volume before you start tweaking timing...the more I try to learn the more I figure out im just as cornfused. maybe I just need to get myself a degree wheel. I know id never be able to do what you do in a million years so id never really try but maybe having the wheel would help me better understand.


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## Mastermind

No, I yet to actually try to measure case volume. Some saws are obviously tighter than others. Some have long transfer tunnels that will make to think that they are smaller than they really are.......this 661 falls into that category.


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## VinceGU05

It's in our catalog down under now.


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## redbull660

new "light" bar look just doesn't do it for me.


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## naturelover

Winter 2014????


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


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## CR888

Mastermind said:


> It's all about finding the sweet spot......I thought I was building some pretty stout saws two years ago, but looking back thru my notes from that time shows me how much better I understand the whole induction process now. The saws I'm doing today are in a whole different league, and when one isn't up the par (like the first attempt on this 661) I know it in the first couple of cuts.


Sheeez monkey l'm trying to buy two masterminded saws atm that are 2012 models from duromax. And now you tell us back then they are not as good. I wanna cry now! I thought buying some tidy used MMded saws was going to save me some $$$ and give me the fastest saws on the block. I'm shattered....


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## Mastermind

Some are as good as ever, some are better.....none are turds.

Roll the dice.


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## big t double

redbull660 said:


> new "light" bar look just doesn't do it for me.


You bar whore hahaha


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## windthrown

big t double said:


> You bar whore hahaha


 
The more common term here is 'bar fly'...



naturelover said:


> Winter 2014????
> 
> Sent from The SawTroll using Tapatalk


 
Yah, the 661 recall/fix has been pushed out. UE/UK and US re-release timeline is Summer 2014 now.


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## MasterMech

windthrown said:


> The more common term here is 'bar fly'...
> 
> 
> 
> Yah, the 661 recall/fix has been pushed out. UE/UK and US re-release timeline is Summer 2014 now.


I was told by STIHL Northeast that it would be Fall 2014.


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## VinceGU05

naturelover said:


> Winter 2014????
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


Down under(Australia) ... Southern Hemisphere .. Our seasons are opposite to northern hemisphere


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## treeslayer2003

VinceGU05 said:


> It's in our catalog down under now.


 what does 2-MIX engine mean?


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## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> what does 2-MIX engine mean?


i have seen weedeaters that say 4 mix ,2 mix must mean reg 2 stoke


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## KG441c

I.just rebuilt a Stihl Br600 blower 4 mix. Its a four stroke motor with valves and cam but get its lubrication from premix


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## Hedgerow

Now where's that unicorn picture I had??


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## Gologit

Hedgerow said:


> Now where's that unicorn picture I had??



My friendly local neighborhood saw shop has a sign on the counter..."DON"T EVEN ASK US WHEN THE 661s WILL BE IN!" So...every time any of us go in there we always ask about the 661. They're threatening to cut off our coffee and donut privileges if we don't quit it.


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## Mastermind

When is the 661 gonna be in Boss?


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## windthrown

MasterMech said:


> I was told by STIHL Northeast that it would be Fall 2014.


 
When it comes to the 661, there seems to be no straight answer from anyone at Stihl. But a longer delay means a more radical re-design of the saw. Or more testing, because they ballacked up the first release so badly. I would not want be on the engineering team of the 661...


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## Mastermind

Seems pretty good in my hands.


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## windthrown

Mastermind said:


> When is the 661 gonna be in Boss?


 
No pie for you!


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## windthrown

Mastermind said:


> Seems pretty good in my hands.


 
You got one of the good ones... lots of them just died. Most were shipped back to der Fatherland.


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## windthrown

redbull660 said:


> Well I just hope it's going to be EVEN MORE BAD AZZ then it was going to be!


 
Engine re-design... no new features.

I am updating the 661 recall thread with some data from Germany and the UK. I will add Mastermind's post there. I wonder of that guy in Canada still says he can get as many 661s as he wants there and in Bavaria?


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## LowVolt

Hey Randy, are you getting a crapton if notifications now? Looks like someone has been doing something.


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## Mastermind

Yeah. Todo says that got it fixed up proper.


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## windthrown

*Mastermind Worksaws
No more work being taken until we catch up.*
Hey Randy: I just saw this. I usually have the sig lines turned off on AS. Does this mean no saws being taken in for mods until the re-designed 661 comes out? Or is it separate... inquiring minds want to know. Too much work is a good thing I guess.


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## bryanr2

All I know is I sure am thankful I got to sneak my 3 in there before he posted that in his sig.


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## Gologit

Mastermind said:


> When is the 661 gonna be in Boss?



Beats me. My saw shop will have the first ones to hit this part of the country and I have dibs on the first one they get.

I just hope it happens before I get too old to carry the damn thing out to the truck.


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## VinceGU05

treeslayer2003 said:


> what does 2-MIX engine mean?


from the catalog..." the STIHL 2-stroke engine with 2-MIX technology provides outstanding cutting performance and plenty of torque. up to 20% less fuel consumption and up to 70% fewer emissions compared to STIHL 2 strokes of the same performance class without 2-MIX technology."

off the website.
* STIHL 2-MIX Engine*
The new 2-MIX engine features an advanced stratified charge system that boosts power, whilst reducing consumption and pollution, significantly lowering unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust. The result is a cleaner, more fuel efficient engine.

the link.. look up the features tab.
http://www.stihl.com.au/STIHL-Produ...Chain-saws/21616-1573/MS-441-C-M-Magnum®.aspx


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## naturelover

VinceGU05 said:


> Down under(Australia) ... Southern Hemisphere .. Our seasons are opposite to northern hemisphere



Oh, duh. 

(Slides on the dunce hat....)


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


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## RiverRat2

Gologit said:


> Beats me. My saw shop will have the first ones to hit this part of the country and I have dibs on the first one they get.
> 
> I just hope it happens before I get too old to carry the damn thing out to the truck.


Well ya poor little feller, yer still getting round purty good...


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## windthrown

The reply from Stihl Inc. regarding the availability of the MS661 chainsaw.

*Thanks for your E-mail and your interest in STIHL products.
According to the information I have here the MS661 should be released around Aug-Sept 2014.
I hope this helps and if I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. *

*Sincerely,
Mark O’Briant
STIHL Inc. Technical Advisor*


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## big t double

redbull660 said:


> was at my stihl dealer and the regional rep showed up. he confirmed with me it was cylinders. also said they sold 4 of them before recall. 1 went bad and 3 are still going strong every day just about. said that the ones that are still going are good and the ones that are bad went bad pretty much right away.



Hey shouldn't you be cutting down a tree somewhere!!!


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## windthrown

Buying up bar whores?


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## redbull660

37lbs and counting


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## big t double

The one on top looks oddly familiar


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## redbull660

pimping that one out fo sure!


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## windthrown

Those look like yellow dot wide nosed Stihl bars... unobtanium.


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## redbull660

i managed to get some


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## big t double

redbull660 said:


> gotta have enough bars for my Fleet of 661 CM's


He11 yes! You need more saws in that signature anyways.


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## treeslayer2003

hmmm, I know who to bug for a good bar


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## redbull660

they are all 063


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## RiverRat2

redbull660 said:


> they are all 063


 
Sweet,,,,,
That is the best for folks that really work their saws,,, there are a few (just sawfreaks) here who dont have any wood on their place or any way to use it if they did.......that thinks .050 is all you need,,, well I suppose if'n they mostly just cut cookies and polish their shelf queens it is good,,,,,

give me the .063


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## Gologit

RiverRat2 said:


> Sweet,,,,,
> That is the best for folks that really work their saws,,, there are a few (just sawfreaks) here who dont have any wood on their place or any way to use it if they did.......that thinks .050 is all you need,,, well I suppose if'n they mostly just cut cookies and polish their shelf queens it is good,,,,,
> 
> give me the .063


 
Yup.


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