# Growing Anything In Containers



## Elmore (Mar 4, 2004)

Well, are any of you growing any plant material in containers?


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## MasterBlaster (Mar 4, 2004)

*Not lately...*

http://windycitysports.org/mp3/Bob & Tom -- Smoking Pot with Parents.mp3


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## rumination (Mar 4, 2004)

Butch,

LMFAO!! 

especially the backseat of the car....been there, done that


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## fmueller (Mar 9, 2004)

I've been thinking of starting to grow some landscape material to try and make some extra cash. I'm in the upper midwest so will probably try and build a hoop house to keep them in. I've got about 5 acres of timber to play with though. Thought I'd start out with stuff like white and pink dogwoods, some forsythia and not sure what else. Japanese maple is on the list but not sure if I can afford them at this point. I was more interested in the containerized route soi I'd probably have to do alot of watering.


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## Elmore (Mar 9, 2004)

*Producing landscape material*

Hey, sounds like fun. What is your zone? According to Guy Meilleur
on a thread in Residential Tree Care it is a lot easier running (working) a Nursery than ... Arborist Consultant. He's not any relation to you, is he? Spells his name a little different. Japanese Maples don't have to be that expensive Time consuming? Yes. If you want to grow material I suggest you grow superior material, that way it sells itself and demands a higher premium.


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## Guy Meilleur (Mar 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Elmore _
> *Well, are any of you growing any plant material in containers? *


Not for long, due to circling roots. How do you prevent that--CuHOH, root pruning at pot-up time, or what?


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## DadF (Mar 10, 2004)

I was also looking at starting a pot-in-pot operation but still can't consciensely (I know it's spelled wrong) justify putting trees in pots because of the circling(girdling) root problems that I have seen in almost every containerized tree.


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## Elmore (Mar 11, 2004)

*roots*

With Japanese Maples I don't see much of a problem due to the fibrous nature of the roots of this species. With Ginkgo biloba and others there is more concern. Whenever repotting I will root prune or "slash" the rootball if needed. I have been using some root control containers, looking for the cost effective "magic bullet". Air pruning pots, fabric root control grow bags, fiber pots, mesh grow bags in cinder blocks and copper treated containers. Timely shifting up the plants and eventually planting the material in the field would work. Some containers I am trying are "Smart Pots" by Root Control, Inc., "Root Trapper" by RootMaker Products Co. LLC, "Accelerator" pots, a "Florida Cool Ring", some fiber containers by Western Pulp Products Co., fiber pots incorporating copper by Henry Molded Products, Inc. and Tex-R Agroliners by Texel which is a copper lined insert used in bag-in-pot production. I use them above ground currently but may sink a few below someday. They suggest inground containers utilizing the Agroliner. If you can still get Spin Out you can paint the insides of your containers. I think you can buy containers with that product incorporated in the molding process from Nursery Supplies, Inc.. There is a liner nursery in TX, Rennerwood, that uses RootMaker containers and they do a great job. Cherry Lake Nursery is another that uses a variety of root control technologies including the Air-Pot. For more info I suggest doing a Google Search on the subject, check out info available at the SNA website and/or contact professor John M. Ruter of the University of Georgia.


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## fmueller (Mar 11, 2004)

Not related to Guy. Would like to meet him someday and talk trees. I bet he is a fountain of information. Anyway I'm in zone 4. Still waiting for the weather to settle down so I can take some more trees down to clear a spot for the hoop house. I certainly wont make any money this year but hopefully next. Do you use auxin to propogate cuttings? I gotta find somewhere that will sell me something like that. Plan on trying to propogate cuttings to resell wholesale. Maybe sell some stuff retail. Dunno yet . Still in the figuring stage. By the way, I used to run a sawmill outside of Tuscaloosa back in 83. You anywhere near there? I bet its not as stinkin cold as it is here right now. The wind is blowing pretty good and the ground froze over again. Maybe the wind will get me some more tree work! Will check out Google for more info on propogating.


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## Elmore (Mar 12, 2004)

*Propagating*

Basically I grow root stock from seed and/or buy some in, Japanese Maple and Ginkgo. I grow them on and graft them with cultivars or varieties found to have good qualities. Sometimes I will occasionally do a ground layer. I have not set up facilities to do any rooting on any scale. I also grow, from seed, Shantung Maple, Trident Maple, Davids Maple, some Buckeye, Bald Cypress and whatever comes my way. I have rooted some material when taking some courses at a community college that had the facilities. I enjoyed doing Loropetalum chinensis. Nice plant for zone 7 and warmer. I used Dip&Grow and also Hormodin. You can find some hormones at most Big Box stores or at garden centers. Rootone is one. You might also research using willow branch tea. I recommend getting Michael Dirrs manual on propagation. I am about 30 miles due south of Huntsville.


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## fmueller (Mar 12, 2004)

Is there any legal ramifications when using cultivars or varieties if they're patented even if your grafting onto something else?


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## Elmore (Mar 12, 2004)

*Patents etc*

Yes. It's illegal. With a patented plant you must have a license aggreenent with the owner of the patent. With a trade mark it is a little different. I'll check on it but I think that it is the name that is protected in that case.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 14, 2004)

Brad, did you change your eamil? The last one i have got kicked back when I tried sending you the pics that Rog B. posted of a crane move of a 100+ y/o A palmatum.

Small trees a nd shrubs I can see container grown because the encircling root problem is not so bad. I still prefer containerized stock though.

I've found some container grown stuff from reputable nurseries (Cornus alternafolia comes to mind) that were way too deep in the pot and would have had problmes if i had just stuck them in.


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## Sylvatica (Mar 15, 2004)

Here are a few things we put into large "containers" (3'-10' ø) to grow above ground. We are zone 5, so nothing marginally root-hardy winters over in these containers.

To give scale, the Alberta Spruce is 7' high, the Weeping White Pine 14'-16' high.


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## Sylvatica (Mar 15, 2004)

This beech was field grown, and was dug with a 6'ø ball.

It was set up on micro-irrigation in a large container, and was grown on for 2 years. It developed a fantastic root system which filled the container space with fibrous roots. Then it was dug with an 8-1/2' ø ball, and set with the crane.


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## fmueller (Mar 17, 2004)

*source*

Hi Elmore,
I've been looking on the web for a place to buy Japanese Maple to plant and grow for a year and resell. Can't seem to find anything. Got any good wholesale sources you could point me to?
Would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 17, 2004)

Himself, if your not in zone 4 



> This beech was field grown,



How long does it take to barrel wrap something that sized?


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## fmueller (Mar 18, 2004)

Arrrrrrr!Arrrrrrr!aRRRRRRR! As a matter of fact I was kinda leaning in that direction.:jester:


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## Sylvatica (Mar 18, 2004)

JPS, 

Our 3 best guys can dig & drum lace an 8' Ø ball in a few hours, _provided_ that it is in our nursery, or another location which has nice, deep loam. If we have to dig off-site, and the soil is like a gravel pit, or ledgy, then all bets are off.

We taught our guys how to drum lace, and now we don't need to crawl around on our hands and knees in the bottom of a trench very often any more. 

I must admit, they have gotten even better at it.....


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 18, 2004)

Do you require perc tests for all sites, or just automaticly have drainage installed for the pits?


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## Sylvatica (Mar 18, 2004)

Soil core samples and a deep pit test are sometimes done first to determine if a drainage system is necessary. And doing so, I've gotten to know the local soils fairly well. My soil survey maps are extremely well pawed through. It is the non-native grades which cause the most problems - made land, compacted soils, abused land, etc., because here you don't know what you are dealing with without investigating it. I think every property has a buried dump site. And I'll be the one to find it.

When we translocate a tree from a well drained, deep soil condition to a differing soil type is when we can anticipate mitigating the drainage issues. Such as a move from glacio-lacustrine soil or alluvial soil in a fertile valley area to a hilltop with ledge and poorly drained, stony, glacial till soils. Hilltop and hillside meadows are the worst, esp in a rainy year. They _never_ seem to drain. Of course, plant selection becomes very important in these conditions.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 19, 2004)

Fascinating. Big tree moving is one of the facits I have not had much exposure to.

What's been your biggest move?

Do you stick to a ball size of 1 ft per caliper inc, or do you go bigger for slower growing species?


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## Sylvatica (Mar 19, 2004)

The ultimate rootball dimensions, in diameter, depth, and degree of taper, are really determined as much by the actual root system and the soil conditions as they are by the foot/inch cal formula, but it usually is pretty darn close.

As for the biggest trees, there was a 58' pine with a 14' Ø ball. More typically though, 12" caliper shade trees, with rootballs sized exactly at 9-1/2' is something we've done quite a few of. But by comparison, we have never done any really major moves, and we don't want to given risk and logistic hassles. I have seen some pictures of other outfits doing outrageous moves, wires being taken down, etc. 

It is bad enough when we have to get special trailers, oversize permits, escorts, police traffic control, and get wires lifted. that's enough trouble to go through.

We would like to stick to trees which ship just at underwidth, underlength, underheight.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 20, 2004)

I can see that, have a few feathers in your cap, but stick to that which is the bread and butter. (for those who like their metaphors mixed.)


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