# Michigan Pulpcords



## bbnx (Jul 29, 2009)

I have questions that have likely already been answered out here, however, I was not able to find a search link to look thru earlier posts.

I live in Charlevoix, Michigan and am interested in buying wood in bulk to cut/split myself to use in my home, and maybe sell some. I've seen a couple guys advertise substantially south of here, selling "pulp cords" of wood. One guy is selling 20 pulp cords of mixed hardwood at $1400.

Questions....

Is a pulp cord just full length logs?

How many full cords in a pulp cord?

And there are 3 face cords in a full cord?

Other than the confusion above, I am equally as confused when I look at advertisements in the paper. 99% indicate that they are selling a "cord" of wood for "x" dollars. Is that a full cord? A face cord?

Finally, does anyone know of a supplier selling pulp cords relatively close to this (Charlevoix) area?

Thanks in advance!


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## computeruser (Jul 29, 2009)

There is only one legal use of the word "Cord" - it is a measurement of stacked wood totaling 128 cubic feet, with reasonable air space given the shape of the wood. Anything else is...who knows. 

So whether it is a bush cord, face cord, swamp cord, lamp cord, the issue really is how many cubic feet of stacked wood are we talking about.

At $1400, I would hope that he's talking about 20 full cords. Perhaps "pulp cord" is a measurement to refer to 20 cords of ROUNDS instead of splits, i.e. cubic feet of pulp logs instead of cubic feet of split firewood. That would still be a good deal at $1400, I reckon.


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## yooper (Jul 29, 2009)

chances are it is not cut to 8 feet (96 in) but cut to 100 or 104 inch length. as pulp is usually cut to that length. you may get a bit more than 20 cord counting the extra 6 to 8 inches on each log. ether way not to bad of a deal.


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## Alan Smith (Jul 29, 2009)

*pulp cords*

le 5
Cord volume

D.B.H. Height in number of 8-foot bolts 
1 2 3 4 5 6 
Volume in cords — unpeeled 
6 inches 0.02 0.03 0.04 0.06 
8 inches 0.03 0.05 0.07 0.09 0.12 0.14 
10 inches 0.05 0.07 0.10 0.13 0.17 0.20 
12 inches 0.07 0.10 0.14 0.18 0.22 0.27 
14 inches 0.10 0.13 0.18 0.23 0.29 0.35 
16 inches 0.12 0.17 0.22 0.29 0.36 0.44 
18 inches 0.20 0.27 0.35 0.44 0.53 
20 inches 0.25 0.32 0.42 0.52 0.63 

Taken from Technical Note 202, Lakes States Forest Experiment Station, University Farm, St. Paul, Minnesota, 1943. Volume is stem volume above one foot stump in standard unpeeled cords (standard cord is 4 feet x 4 feet x 8 feet). Height is number of usable 8-foot bolts to a variable top diameter, not less than 4 inches inside the bark.
Some woodland management tips
•Eliminate wildfire and excessive grazing from your timber.
•Do not sell good quality trees until they are mature. This usually means 18 inches or more in diameter at breast height.
•Do not sell timber until you know what you are selling in terms of board feet or other unit of measure.
•Draw up a sale contract before you close the deal. Sample contracts are available from your farm forester or MU Extension forester.
•Treat your woodland as any other crop. Manage it to maintain the proper number of good quality trees per acre. See your farm forester or MU Extension specialist for assistance with farm woodland management, or write to the State Forester, Missouri Department of Conservation, Jefferson City, MO 65101, or the MU Extension forester, University of Missouri, Columbia, MO 65201.
G5050, reviewed October 1993


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## Alan Smith (Jul 29, 2009)

*Measurement of firewood*

In the United States, firewood is usually sold by the cord, 128 ft³ (3.62 m³), corresponding to a woodpile 8 ft wide × 4 ft high of 4 ft-long logs. The cord is legally defined by statute in most states. A "thrown cord" is firewood that has not been stacked and is defined as 4 ft wide x 4 ft tall x 10 ft long. The additional volume is to make it equivalent to a standard stacked cord, where there is less void space. It is also common to see wood sold by the "face cord", which is usually not legally defined, and varies from one area to another. For example, in one state a pile of wood 8 feet wide × 4 feet high of 16"-long logs will often be sold as a "face cord", though its volume is only one-third of a cord. In another state, or even another area of the same state, the volume of a face cord may be considerably different. Hence, it is risky to buy wood sold in this manner, as the transaction is not based on a legally enforceable unit of measure.


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## chucker (Jul 29, 2009)

" THANK YOU " alan smith, for a refreasher from the old school of logging scales!! the old ways need to be brought to mind for a few newbie woodsman that think the new measurements are the correct ways???? with that said ,how did are old grandfathers ever figure things out ! only to be told there wrong with todays ways??? :jawdrop:


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## southpaw (Jul 29, 2009)

You may take notice also that when he speaks he uses volume , volume cord is derived from cubic measurement ......any parts of this cubic measurement will be also be refered to as a cubic measurement .

The mathmatical term square will have no place to determine anything in regards to the volume of wood you section off .......no matter how hard you try.


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## bbnx (Jul 30, 2009)

Thanks for the replies.... I'm going to call today and see if he is referring to rounds or splits and the length. (100"/104") Assuming I end up with 20 full cords (60 face), I can cut, split and sell 30 face cords at the going rate here of $50 and recoup my investment while stilling having 30 for myself. Not a bad deal I guess, unless it takes me a long time to do the work. I have no idea how long it will take to cut and split. Days? Weeks....?


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## JAM (Jul 30, 2009)

It would be worth your time to see it before you buy it. Most loggers selling loads for firewood know what a cord is and are serious about their business. But there's always some fly by nighters hanging around the fringes looking for a quick buck who don't know or care about what they are doing or who they rip off.


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## giXXer (Jul 31, 2009)

Alan Smith said:


> In the United States, firewood is usually sold by the cord, 128 ft³ (3.62 m³), corresponding to a woodpile 8 ft wide × 4 ft high of 4 ft-long logs. The cord is legally defined by statute in most states. A "thrown cord" is firewood that has not been stacked and is defined as 4 ft wide x 4 ft tall x 10 ft long. The additional volume is to make it equivalent to a standard stacked cord, where there is less void space. It is also common to see wood sold by the "face cord", which is usually not legally defined, and varies from one area to another. For example, in one state a pile of wood 8 feet wide × 4 feet high of 16"-long logs will often be sold as a "face cord", though its volume is only one-third of a cord. In another state, or even another area of the same state, the volume of a face cord may be considerably different. Hence, it is risky to buy wood sold in this manner, as the transaction is not based on a legally enforceable unit of measure.



Finally! Very well put. It has been said that selling firewood by the "face cord" is illegal, blah, blah, blah. As consumers we have the option to not patronize certain businesses that may mislabel or mismark their product. There are dramatic regional differences in firewood measurement terminology. I like the saying "buyer beware." I understand the convenience of standardizing wood measurement terminology as it helps eliminate confusion and overpaying for firewood. However, the term "face cord" is used by most firewood sellers in Michigan as well as our DNR. The old timers around here don't like the term "face" either as they prefer "rick." According to the "legal" standards described in this forum both terms are incorrect. Point of the matter is whether you are buying pulp, full, or face cords ask for the volume. Easy, V=LXWXH allowing for "reasonable" air space.

BBNX, your quote most likely came from either Lutke Logging (I know he has a lot of clear cutting going in your area) or J.M. Miller logging. Both of those companies sell their log loads in 8' lengths (diameters vary by job site) on either a single or double truck. A single is 10 full cords and the double is 20 cords equaling 30 and 60 face cords. $1,400.00 seems to be the current going rate for the 20 cords. There most likely will be very little oak or none at all. J.M. Miller has been separating the oaks to sell full oak loads for $1,800.00. The only way that I know of to get a little better price is to negotiate paying with "green backs." They all seem to prefer green over a check for some reason . As far as seeing the wood prior to purchasing it, that might be difficult. Time is money and most loggers don't waste either. Jason is such a busy guy that if you asked to see a load before it was delivered he'd probably just hang-up the phone and sell to the next guy. However, with Lutke, you really don't need to see the load. In my personal experience he under promises and over delivers. You'll get what he tells you you'll get and then some. My recommendation if you do negotiate cash is get a receipt from the driver. Also, if you believe the load is short get a pic BEFORE he starts to unload.


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## bbnx (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks for the info GiXXer! I appreciate it.....


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## November Wolf (Aug 28, 2009)

bbnx said:


> I have questions that have likely already been answered out here, however, I was not able to find a search link to look thru earlier posts.
> 
> I live in Charlevoix, Michigan and am interested in buying wood in bulk to cut/split myself to use in my home, and maybe sell some. I've seen a couple guys advertise substantially south of here, selling "pulp cords" of wood. One guy is selling 20 pulp cords of mixed hardwood at $1400.
> 
> ...



Hey I live just south of you In Kalkaska. I am buying 10 pulp cord or log cords from a local guy here for $750. He also has 20 pulp cords for $1400. Might be the same guy. I am getting maple and ash but he also has red oak. He told me 10 pulp cord is roughly 26 face cords. If you want his number let me know.


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## Curlycherry1 (Aug 28, 2009)

Back in the old days probably before most of you folks were probably even born pulp wood was cut into 4' lengths. That was because a guy with a hook could load individual pieces from pile to truck without much trouble. Now machinery makes that length a thing of the past in most places.

So a pulp cord was 4' tall by 8' long and always 4' deep because the logs were all 4' long.

Gawd that brings back painful memories of helping one of my dad's friends load his pulpwood in the spring. Ug!

It made me good worker - strong like bull, smart like tractor.


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## Dalmatian90 (Aug 28, 2009)

> That was because a guy with a hook could load individual pieces from pile to truck without much trouble.



Or ox-drawn sled 

And it was a sled since most work was done in winter when the ground was hard and packed snow made a good surface to the haul the wood out on.



> correct ways???? with that said ,how did are old grandfathers ever figure things out ! only to be told there wrong with todays ways???



At least as early as 1834 Connecticut law called for there to be 2 "Measurers of Wood" in each town who...measured wood. 

The old timers argued about this stuff just as much as we do.

It's still on the books, although I don't know of any towns that actually do so.


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## palmrose2 (Aug 30, 2009)

November Wolf said:


> Hey I live just south of you In Kalkaska. I am buying 10 pulp cord or log cords from a local guy here for $750. He also has 20 pulp cords for $1400. Might be the same guy. I am getting maple and ash but he also has red oak. He told me 10 pulp cord is roughly 26 face cords. If you want his number let me know.



26 face cord. My uncle, who is in the forestry business, told me once that a log truck full is really more like 9 cords. Not ten. Basically his opinion was that most guys just called it 10 because they could. The guy that is selling the $750 loads at least is making an effort to be honest. We all know that 3 16" face cords can be made from a full cord.


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## November Wolf (Aug 30, 2009)

palmrose2 said:


> 26 face cord. My uncle, who is in the forestry business, told me once that a log truck full is really more like 9 cords. Not ten. Basically his opinion was that most guys just called it 10 because they could. The guy that is selling the $750 loads at least is making an effort to be honest. We all know that 3 16" face cords can be made from a full cord.



I know where the guy lives (right down the road from me). We shall see when I stack it.


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