# quick conifer removal



## Col2y (Feb 29, 2008)

i dont know how many people do this, Normaly i would skin it all the way up flop the top ten feet on a false crotch and block it down, i learned this summer, and use it all the time, that if you skin it up alittle over half way (max 10 feet past) then false crotch it right in the middle then tie off to a porta wrap so that it doesnt run it will fold right in half, now your prolly thinking that your going to get the #### shaken out of you like that poor ausy bloke that everyone has seen, but when you cut it in the middle you are still low enough that the tree doesnt have that much spring, plus the resistance of the canopy above you brings it down like a sail, Now once you get to this point you have a couple of opptions, if you have enough room tie it together on your way down and you can flop it like you normaily would, or if you dont you can tie it together and come half way down then repeat the process. it take a set to try it the first time but if done right youll neer go to the top of a conifer again, i can do 3 to the time it would have taken me to do 1 now. ive done 70 foot hemlocks in 2 cuts with this method right down town Toronto


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## John464 (Feb 29, 2008)

i think I follow. so instead of false crotching just the top you are taking the tree in half? so only difference now than before is that your are taking a bigger piece?


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## Col2y (Feb 29, 2008)

much bigger


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## suprherosndwch (Mar 1, 2008)

I'd like to see a video of that, or maybe some pictures.


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## pbtree (Mar 1, 2008)

Sounds intriguing....


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## StihlRockin' (Mar 1, 2008)

I can visualize that, but let me ask you and others.... *Why false crotch and use the Porta-wrap?* In that situation I could easily do similar except the top "may" be tied off to a groundy pulling a rope, then just give it a face cut and back cut to drop the whole top so it lands flat on the ground with no false crotch, etc. I've done this several times with no pulling rope at all when direction of the top can be controlled by directional falling. Due to the nature of the conifer and it's many branches, the weight it distributed throughout not leaving much, if any, lawn damage. I may get an occasional poked in ground stick, but can remove them by simply pulling them out.

Thank you.

*Stihl*Rockin'


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## RedlineIt (Mar 1, 2008)

StihlRockin'

I've worked in Toronto, it was a few years ago, but I'm betting the drop zones downtown haven't gotten any bigger since then. Not as bad as the town I'm in now where you often lucky to have a DZ the size of a sheet of plywood twenty feet from the base of the tree but tight enough.

I see photos on this db where companies are operating small, even large equipment in back yards! I get jealous, around here a 30" gate is generous and there is barely enough room in the highly planted, terraced and landscaped back yard to manouvre a wheelbarrow, let alone a bobcat. 

Last time I was able to let a fat top just fly was months and months ago on a removal in the wooded fringe of a school grounds. That was also the only time I've been able to use the chipper mounted winch for dragging brush!
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Col2y,

You must be working with some very stout bull ropes and blocks. Safe Working load (SWL) of all your gear is 10% of it's ultimate rated strength. Stay on the safe side of that figure, or you're risking a big, big problem.

And as another poster I greatly respect, "clearance" is likely to say, You can know your gears' rated strength, but how can you rate the SWL of the spar? You can guess but you can never know, so go small.

Better men than you or I have been grievously injured and even killed square-rigging off the spar they were on when it failed under the side-load. It's tricky stuff, not a spot to push the envelope.

It's admirable that you want to save time for your business, the client, or your employer, but With all due respect ... stay on the safe side, brother.


RedlineIt


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## Col2y (Mar 1, 2008)

how do you rate the SWL of any tie in point for that matter, i never said i use it every time i just said i use it alot, im odviously not going to do this with a beetled up old snag thats been dead for 10 years but with good standing live trees being removed for what ever reason with the right equipment its pretty safe

if youve ever do use this youll see that it doesnt actualy put that much side force on the spar because the canopy acts like a sail when it comes over slowing everything down then it absorbs the impact with the standing peg

if you dont feel comfortable using it then dont, but i like it and i thought id share it 

next time i do it ill get footage of it and put it on here so you can take a look and tell me what you think

a side note : 

manufacturers say that every time you put a load on a wrope your supose to cut its working load in half, so 20 000 becomes 10 000 which becomes 5000 and so on, so techniqualy a rope is only good for about 3 uses before you can only drop about 50 pounds with it, do you follow these guide lines to?? because if you dont that your exceding the SWL of your bull lines and are just as guilty as i am


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## treemandan (Mar 1, 2008)

Col2y said:


> i dont know how many people do this, Normaly i would skin it all the way up flop the top ten feet on a false crotch and block it down, i learned this summer, and use it all the time, that if you skin it up alittle over half way (max 10 feet past) then false crotch it right in the middle then tie off to a porta wrap so that it doesnt run it will fold right in half, now your prolly thinking that your going to get the #### shaken out of you like that poor ausy bloke that everyone has seen, but when you cut it in the middle you are still low enough that the tree doesnt have that much spring, plus the resistance of the canopy above you brings it down like a sail, Now once you get to this point you have a couple of opptions, if you have enough room tie it together on your way down and you can flop it like you normaily would, or if you dont you can tie it together and come half way down then repeat the process. it take a set to try it the first time but if done right youll neer go to the top of a conifer again, i can do 3 to the time it would have taken me to do 1 now. ive done 70 foot hemlocks in 2 cuts with this method right down town Toronto



The mental picture I have is the top of the tree touching the ground and the butt in your face. Is that right? That is getting close to the fire.
I have done what you described but either just letting the top hit the ground with no lower line. I want whatever I cut to go away, far away.
I used to be crazy but I am not anymore. I would get to the top, cover my eyes and reach around with the other hand to cut a face notch. In all truthfulness; I used The Force. Sometimes I would make the back cut with my eyes closed as well. I don't think I have the balls to try what you described.
I have seen it done and well... when you lower 1/2 of the tree off of the other 1/2 things can get hairy. I saw the tree dance, the climber was real good and knew how to follow. Man that pole went back and forth so far, fast and so many times I thought it would surely snap. This guy rode it while resting on his lanyard and his saw still in his hand.
By the way I only did the blind cutting after years of practice, I think the guy riding the pole didn't care if he died or not. Most of what I do now is textbook.


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## squad143 (Mar 2, 2008)

I think I get the idea of it, however I'd still like to see a video. 

I don't like trusting the tree I'm in and the less force on it, the better.

In tight quarters on a conifer, I perfer to branch it all the way up and lower the top. Then if I can, chunk it on the way down, dropping 18" chunks onto the limbs which are protecting the lawn. That is the only way I'll speed up the job. If its real tight, then out comes the port-a-wrap and everything gets lowered.

Yes, 18" seems excessive, but it is going to be cut into firewood length anyways.


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## StihlRockin' (Mar 3, 2008)

I completely understand the operation, but didn't see it's necessity until RedlineIt reminded me of the tight situations that exist. I've taken down some trees in some tough and tight situations that have always commanded me being safe as possible. It bites to have something broken. Even the smallest of mistakes stops much of the operation to fix or replace something. Not only that, mistakes reflect badly to the client. With the way I operate, I don't see the need to speed things up that much and focus more on getting the tree down safely. I can quicken things up with the groundies and I if the need arises.

Most my work is residential work mainly on the outskirts of city limits and country residences where the tight situations don't exist as often as they may when working within city limits.

*Stihl*Rockin'


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## Nailsbeats (Mar 3, 2008)

Col2y said:


> i dont know how many people do this, Normaly i would skin it all the way up flop the top ten feet on a false crotch and block it down, i learned this summer, and use it all the time, that if you skin it up alittle over half way (max 10 feet past) then false crotch it right in the middle then tie off to a porta wrap so that it doesnt run it will fold right in half, now your prolly thinking that your going to get the #### shaken out of you like that poor ausy bloke that everyone has seen, but when you cut it in the middle you are still low enough that the tree doesnt have that much spring, plus the resistance of the canopy above you brings it down like a sail, Now once you get to this point you have a couple of opptions, if you have enough room tie it together on your way down and you can flop it like you normaily would, or if you dont you can tie it together and come half way down then repeat the process. it take a set to try it the first time but if done right youll neer go to the top of a conifer again, i can do 3 to the time it would have taken me to do 1 now. ive done 70 foot hemlocks in 2 cuts with this method right down town Toronto




That sounds good to me. I am all for speeding up production. I would like to see it, so I could try it sometime. Sometimes a moneycut like that, done right, is the safest method to use. Less time in the tree, less time to fall out.
I know some wont agree with that logic, but right now I don't give a ratz azz.


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## Mikecutstrees (Mar 3, 2008)

Col2y said:


> a side note :
> 
> manufacturers say that every time you put a load on a wrope your supose to cut its working load in half, so 20 000 becomes 10 000 which becomes 5000 and so on, so techniqualy a rope is only good for about 3 uses before you can only drop about 50 pounds with it, do you follow these guide lines to?? because if you dont that your exceding the SWL of your bull lines and are just as guilty as i am



This is true, but it's not just a load on the rope, it the full tensile strength, so in your example if you start with 20,000 lbs on the rope, then it is only good for 10,000. This is why they recommend a 10/1 working load because then the life of the rope (cycles to failure) is greatly extended. Even 10/1 is excessive in my estimation, I try to keep weights down especially when dynamic loading. And especially when using older and worn ropes.


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## tree MDS (Mar 4, 2008)

I must be getting old because the days of drop hitching massive tops are mostly gone for me, now I just go smaller and safer. I save the big cuts for hardwoods and usually use two ropes (tip tie/but tie) so there is little shock/less on each rope. But this being said I have taken some serious big cuts over the years and can tell you its not very easy to break a good rope, (double braid or stable or whatever) I would worry more about the tree's "tensile strength", you go big enough to break a 9/16 double braid and you were asking for it, and when it comes to a 3/4 on wood-come on!


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## masterarbor (Mar 7, 2008)

*Am I not getting something here?*

If you're able to butt hitch the half of the tree, then why not just let it fly? I guess if you let it run to the ground and then put the brakes on it would keep the butt from flopping around, but isn't the whole point of roping to avoid hazards? Besides, skinning and chunking is way easier than dragging heavy conifer limbs, so why not take it easy on the ground guys and send it down in easy pieces?


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## masterarbor (Mar 7, 2008)

*Oh yeah...*

it could also barber chair


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## beowulf343 (Mar 7, 2008)

masterarbor said:


> Besides, skinning and chunking is way easier than dragging heavy conifer limbs, so why not take it easy on the ground guys and send it down in easy pieces?



Send it down in big pieces and the groundies can cut it up to the size they want. Quicker to cut a big piece into 10 little pieces on the ground then in the air.


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## treemandan (Mar 7, 2008)

masterarbor said:


> it could also barber chair



I don't see how the guy does it. Then ties them together for the felling cut?


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## StihlRockin' (Nov 7, 2013)

It's been quite a spell my fellow tree-cuttin'-bros, but I have read y'all's replies and respect every one of them! I'm a better "tree guy" because of them and will try to make my biz and you PROUD!

Best of luck fellow tree-cuttin'-dudes and lets make $ enjoy free-time in all of this mess!

*Stihl*Rockin'


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