# How to Video: Crank seal replacment, Pressure testing, Vacuum testing



## blsnelling (Oct 23, 2009)

The last couple days I've been working on another finicky 026. I couldn't get the idle speed down to where the chain would stop spinning. I knew I had some carbuartion issues, so just assumed that's what it was. Long story short, I finally found it had a crank seal leaking BADLY. I grabbed the video camera to show Nik what I had found on his saw. While I was at it, I thought I'd go ahead and do a little video tutorial of sorts on how to pull and replace the seal, and pressure and vaccum test the saw. BTW, the flywheel side seal on a 026 is one of the most difficult to remove. Because it is so small, it's very difficult to get anything other than the proper tool in there for removal. Enjoy.

Finding the culprit.




Fixing the problem.


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## troutfisher (Oct 23, 2009)

very cool Brad, nice job.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Oct 23, 2009)

*Great Vids!*

Brad

Thanks for the great vids!

Dan


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## barneyrb (Oct 23, 2009)

Very nice....just want to add be sure and lube the inside lip of the new seal as a dry crank on dry rubber is no good.


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2009)

Excellent my friend, excellent.


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## Brian VT (Oct 23, 2009)

Good show.


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## czar800 (Oct 23, 2009)

NICE!!



Good tools aren't cheap and cheap tools aren't good. Thats a nice puller!







Thanks 
.


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## woodgrenade (Oct 23, 2009)

Brad, once again thank you for your time and willingness to share information. You rock!


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## SAWZ (Oct 23, 2009)

Thanks for taking the time to educate and entertain the chainsaw crowd!


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## richv70 (Oct 23, 2009)

Thanks.


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## TxAggie (Oct 23, 2009)

Great work! I really appreciate it.


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## Erick (Oct 23, 2009)

Now tell'em what that puller cost.


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## Erick (Oct 23, 2009)

Brad you really gotta pick up a couple of test flanges.


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## SkippyKtm (Oct 23, 2009)

Kudos to you Brad! Arboristsite wouldn't be the same without ya.


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## whitedogone (Oct 23, 2009)

If the saw wouldn't idle down. Why would you work all day on it before pressure testing it?..... just asking


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## weimedog (Oct 23, 2009)

Good educational stuff..thanks!

So where do you find a puller for those small seals?


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## BobL (Oct 23, 2009)

Brad, these posts are prime examples of why I hang around this forum, Well these, and a certain level of what Aussies call "piss taking"


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## Arrowhead (Oct 23, 2009)

Great video. Thanks for taking the time to make it and post it. I learned a ton on vacuum/pressure testing the last couple days. Now I can't wait to try it on a _temper-mental_ saw of mine.


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## THALL10326 (Oct 23, 2009)

weimedog said:


> Good educational stuff..thanks!
> 
> So where do you find a puller for those small seals?



At your local Stihl dealer. The one Brad was using is the standard seal puller sold by Stihl. It list for around 150.00. Comes with extra jaws to do most any seal. 

Every once in awhile you can find those pullers on E-bay for a few bucks.


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## logging22 (Oct 23, 2009)

Thanx for the info. I believe i may be needing one in the future.


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## THALL10326 (Oct 23, 2009)

logging22 said:


> Thanx for the info. I believe i may be needing one in the future.



If your a do it your selfer its almost impossible to repair a saw right without pressure and vac testing. As Brad said, he fooled with that saw for quite awhile switching carbs and such. He found the problem instantly with the pressure/vac tests. If a seal is found like the one he found that puller comes in very handy. Seals can be removed with tools as a simple screwdriver but care must be taken not to dent or damage the housing, damage the seal area of the case will result in the new seal leaking. Using the proper puller takes care of those issues altogether...


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## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2009)

Thanks guys. I'm a DIY kind of guy. Yes, you can, and I did, get by without the proper puller for a long time. When I started getting into more saw work, it became apparent I needed these pullers. Yes they're pricey, VERY pricey. But you can see just how well they work.

Why did I wait so long to pressure test? I had some actual carb problems I was working on and just thought the fast idle was part of it. So I chased that tail first. It would have been quicker and easier in the long run to have just pressure tested it to begin with. But, I was not "rebuilding" this saw, just doing some mods for a friend, Nik. When I rebuild a saw, the seals come out automatically and are replaced. It's not worth trying to get around replacing them.

Anyway, I just thought I'd share what you can do in your garage with just a few tools. You can get by without the puller for a few saws, and the rest of the tools aren't that expensive.

Also, pressure and vaccum testing can have this auro around it that it's some difficult task requiring expensive and highly specialized tools. As you can see, it doesn't. 

Go for it guys. Get them saws runnin' right and have some fun cutting wood this fall!


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## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2009)

Erick said:


> Brad you really gotta pick up a couple of test flanges.



When you don't work in a shop, you sometimes don't know what you're missing. I guess I need to go do some shopping in my Stihl specialty tool catalog


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## angelo c (Oct 24, 2009)

Hey Brad ( or Tommy ),

how do you know how far to press in the new seal and what are you measuring with ?

thanks, and thanks for posting the vids !
Angelo


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## boda65 (Oct 24, 2009)

Brad, 
Thanks for taking the time to film and edit that. A picture's worth a thousand words. Keep it up!


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## Trigger Man (Oct 24, 2009)

Stand up job!! Brad.
This is what makes this site rock! 
You should be marketing those vids as a series! seriously.


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## THALL10326 (Oct 24, 2009)

angelo c said:


> Hey Brad ( or Tommy ),
> 
> how do you know how far to press in the new seal and what are you measuring with ?
> 
> ...



No measurement needed. Just drive the seal slightly below the case edge and your go to go. Driving it in too deep , like into the bearing is a no no...


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## outdoorlivin247 (Oct 24, 2009)

Not taking anything away from your video or how to, but I have found that you should rotate the crankshaft while pressure and vac testing...I have had one saw that would hold vacuum until you rotated the crank...Drove me nuts until I figured it out...But like the other have said great tutorial...


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## THALL10326 (Oct 24, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> When you don't work in a shop, you sometimes don't know what you're missing. I guess I need to go do some shopping in my Stihl specialty tool catalog



Looks like you got it down pretty good without them. They come in nice but the way your doing it works and thats the main thing...


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## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2009)

angelo c said:


> Hey Brad ( or Tommy ),
> 
> how do you know how far to press in the new seal and what are you measuring with ?
> 
> ...



The correct Stihl tool seats them to the correct depth for you, and keeps them nice and square. I don't have all those tools. It's as simple as taking note of the depth of the original and/or just making sure it's lower than what the flywheel will hit. You also have to make sure that you *don't push the seal in too far* such that the inner bearing race rubs on the inside of the seal. And do make sure to always lube the seal ID.


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## Erick (Oct 24, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> When you don't work in a shop, you sometimes don't know what you're missing. I guess I need to go do some shopping in my Stihl specialty tool catalog



Brad pick up 1128 850 4200 (it'll sub over to 5910 850 4200 ) makes life so much easier. 

That one along with 1118 850 4200 and the Husky set for the 55 will cover 99% of everything you run into.


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## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2009)

outdoorlivin247 said:


> Not taking anything away from your video or how to, but I have found that you should rotate the crankshaft while pressure and vac testing...I have had one saw that would hold vacuum until you rotated the crank...Drove me nuts until I figured it out...But like the other have said great tutorial...



Another good point worth noting. I did do that outside of the video. It's as simple as slipping the flywheel onto the crank stub and rotating it a few times while still holding vacuum on the engine. You will see some fluctuation up and down as the piston compresses and creates vacuum through out it's stroke. But it should equalize again and remain where it started.


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## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2009)

Erick said:


> Brad pick up 1128 850 2400 (it'll sub over to 5910 850 4200 ) makes life so much easier.
> 
> That one along with 1118 850 4200 and the Husky set for the 55 will cover 99% of everything you run into.



Excellent. Got a PN for the Husky? I assume these are block off flanges, rather than seal drivers?


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## angelo c (Oct 24, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> No measurement needed. Just drive the seal slightly below the case edge and your go to go. Driving it in too deep , like into the bearing is a no no...



Excellent, Thanks Tommy !!


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## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Looks like you got it down pretty good without them. They come in nice but the way your doing it works and thats the main thing...



Thanks Tom. I didn't even have to get out the *impact scrench *for this job


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## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2009)

The 064 is one that comes to mind as being a little different than some. The flywheel side seal on that model has to be seated significantly deaper than normal due to stub on the flywheel sticking out farther.


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## Erick (Oct 24, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Excellent. Got a PN for the Husky? I assume these are block off flanges, rather than seal drivers?



Yep flanges try 504 90 29-02.


Oh and yes... excellent video.


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## THALL10326 (Oct 24, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks Tom. I didn't even have to get out the *impact scrench *for this job



LOL, good one. You did good. I love these kinds of threads. I'm into selling and repairs, especailly when done correctly, you did real good and when you do a job well done I'll be the first to give you credit,


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## angelo c (Oct 24, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> The correct Stihl tool seats them to the correct depth for you, and keeps them nice and square. I don't have all those tools. It's as simple as taking note of the depth of the original and/or just making sure it's lower than what the flywheel will hit. You also have to make sure that you *don't push the seal in too far* such that the inner bearing race rubs on the inside of the seal. And do make sure to always lube the seal ID.



Thanks Brad. !


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## woodgrenade (Oct 24, 2009)

I don't suppose anyone could pm me with a link to the Stihl specialty tool catalog? Thanks!!


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## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2009)

Erick said:


> Brad pick up 1128 850 4200 (it'll sub over to 5910 850 4200 ) makes life so much easier.
> 
> That one along with 1118 850 4200 and the Husky set for the 55 will cover 99% of everything you run into.



Is this the Husky fittings you're talking about? What are the numbers under the PN?


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## Erick (Oct 24, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Is this the Husky fittings you're talking about? What are the numbers under the PN?



Nope... guess you didn't see the edit.



Erick said:


> Yep flanges try 504 90 29-02.
> 
> 
> Oh and yes... excellent video.


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 24, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks Tom. I didn't even have to get out the *impact scrench *for this job



Darn it, I was going to say something about you didn't even need a scrench to fix that one.lol


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## redunshee (Oct 24, 2009)

Great job, Brad! Wish I had a puller like you have.


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## Tzed250 (Oct 24, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks guys. I'm a DIY kind of guy. Yes, you can, and I did, get by without the proper puller for a long time. When I started getting into more saw work, it became apparent I needed these pullers. Yes they're pricey, VERY pricey. But you can see just how well they work.
> 
> Why did I wait so long to pressure test? I had some actual carb problems I was working on and just thought the fast idle was part of it. So I chased that tail first. It would have been quicker and easier in the long run to have just pressure tested it to begin with. But, I was not "rebuilding" this saw, just doing some mods for a friend, Nik. When I rebuild a saw, the seals come out automatically and are replaced. It's not worth trying to get around replacing them.
> 
> ...



Brad, when I install any kind of seal, I will put clear platic, Saran Wrap, etc. around the shaft and over any sharp edges the seal will pass by. One microscopic nick and the seal is done. 

Great Videos!!!


.


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## wigglesworth (Oct 24, 2009)

Tzed250 said:


> Brad, when I install any kind of seal, I will put clear platic, Saran Wrap, etc. around the shaft and over any sharp edges the seal will pass by. One microscopic nick and the seal is done.
> 
> Great Videos!!!
> 
> ...



I bet that saran wrap works good....... Thanks. Brad, awesome thread. Makes me want to get a saw with bad seals......does that make sense??? LOL


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## Scandy14 (Oct 24, 2009)

Thanks for sharing, good stuff!


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## bitzer (Oct 24, 2009)

Very cool vid and info Brad! Its great how you share your knowledge of the saw so freely. Your savin a lotta guys a lotta trouble and money. Your gonna have to start billing us for this stuff soon! Thanks again man!


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## FATGUY (Oct 24, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> The last couple days I've been working on another finicky 026. I couldn't get the idle speed down to where the chain would stop spinning. I knew I had some carbuartion issues, so just assumed that's what it was. Long story short, I finally found it had a crank seal leaking BADLY. I grabbed the video camera to show Nik what I had found on his saw. While I was at it, I thought I'd go ahead and do a little video tutorial of sorts on how to pull and replace the seal, and pressure and vaccum test the saw. BTW, the flywheel side seal on a 026 is one of the most difficult to remove. Because it is so small, it's very difficult to get anything other than the proper tool in there for removal. Enjoy.
> 
> Finding the culprit.
> 
> ...



thanks Brad


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## BlacknTan (Oct 24, 2009)

Very nice!

This is wny I spend 99% of my time here reading... and only 1% posting.

Great stuff!


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## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2009)

I found it interesting that my 260 had a bad flywheel side seal too. That was a couple years ago though. Just like Niks, the clutch side was fine. I believe Niks leak was worse though. I'm surprised we didn't smoke this saw running it the other night.


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## jbighump (Oct 24, 2009)

thanks for the clear instructions on pressure testing, i have a finiky 026 that dont like to come down to idle i will likely test it after i rebuild the carb tomorrow. have been sick for 3 days and have alot of catching up to do ill post my findings thanks:greenchainsaw:


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 24, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I'm surprised we didn't smoke this saw running it the other night.



We were real lucky, I ran the thing for 10+ minutes. It honestly didn't act like it had that bad of an air leak, it wasn't idling that well, but the top end seemed fine.


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## cjnspecial (Oct 24, 2009)

Where can one get a puller like that and how much do they run? I could use a puller like that many, many times in the last few years.


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## shawn022 (Oct 24, 2009)

cjnspecial said:


> Where can one get a puller like that and how much do they run? I could use a puller like that many, many times in the last few years.



One just sold on Ebay the other day. $170 or something. See Thalls post earlier. Some dealers won't sell tools though.


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## TxAggie (Oct 25, 2009)

*Cheap seal puller?*

Anyone looked at one of the Harbor Freight Seal Pullers? At $19.99, this seems to be a little more in my budget. I've been using a old screwdriver with a notch, but I'd like to find something a little bit more consistent.


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## Bowtie (Oct 25, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> The 064 is one that comes to mind as being a little different than some. The flywheel side seal on that model has to be seated significantly deaper than normal due to stub on the flywheel sticking out farther.



It depends on the 064. Some are deep set seals, newer ones werent...


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## buzz sawyer (Oct 28, 2009)

The older saws I've seen have double lip crank seals or two seals back to back - one lip in and one lip out. I figured this was to seal from both directions since you have pressure and vacuum at different points in the cycle. Is it conceivable that you could have a pressure leak that may not show up as a vac leak and vice-versa?


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## Mr. Firewood (Oct 29, 2009)

*Wont run with R50 mix but runs fine with Stihl Ultra mix :scratching head:*

I seen them vids on there and I always wondered how much of a job it was to change them out, I have a 046 that needs them bad and has been sitting because of it for about 6 years


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## redunshee (Oct 29, 2009)

*!*



TxAggie said:


> Anyone looked at one of the Harbor Freight Seal Pullers? At $19.99, this seems to be a little more in my budget. I've been using a old screwdriver with a notch, but I'd like to find something a little bit more consistent.



Saw it and wonder if it would work? For $20.00 may pick one up and see. I've pi#$ed away more money than this on parts, etc.
Bob


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## Streblerm (Oct 29, 2009)

TxAggie said:


> Anyone looked at one of the Harbor Freight Seal Pullers? At $19.99, this seems to be a little more in my budget. I've been using a old screwdriver with a notch, but I'd like to find something a little bit more consistent.



Looking at that tool, I would guess that the jaws are going to be to thick to get between the seal and the crank. Maybe something more like this one, http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95987 at twice the price.

If they have it in the store, sooner or later it will be on sale. The slide hammer part is also going to be a PITA vs the tension puller from Stihl.


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## litefoot (Oct 29, 2009)

I love these videos. Another thread to add to my book marks. As always, refer to the Stihl shop manual for proper vacuum and pressure levels and time durations.

Has anyone ever seen a decomp valve get pulled in (to the decompression position) during a vacuum test? I think I've heard that the decomp should be replaced with a bolt, but not sure if that's absolutely necessary.


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## TxAggie (Oct 29, 2009)

redunshee said:


> Saw it and wonder if it would work? For $20.00 may pick one up and see. I've pi#$ed away more money than this on parts, etc.
> Bob



Went by and the arms are WAY too big. The guy at the store recommended that I take two dental picks and tape them together. I think that I'll just keep using the screw driver and think happy thoughts.


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## Maldeney (Oct 29, 2009)

Valuable information!


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## blsnelling (Oct 29, 2009)

Maldeney said:


> Valuable information!



Thanks


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## pastryguyhawaii (Oct 29, 2009)

BlacknTan said:


> Very nice!
> 
> This is wny I spend 99% of my time here reading... and only 1% posting.
> 
> Great stuff!



I agree. Excellent videos!


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## ropensaddle (Oct 29, 2009)

Very nice work Brad and I am sure you checked bearings for wear too. I always check them to make sure slop is not what wore the seals.


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## redunshee (Oct 29, 2009)

TxAggie said:


> Went by and the arms are WAY too big. The guy at the store recommended that I take two dental picks and tape them together. I think that I'll just keep using the screw driver and think happy thoughts.



Looking at picture I think you're right. Did you go to the Richardson store?


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## blsnelling (Oct 29, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Very nice work Brad and I am sure you checked bearings for wear too. I always check them to make sure slop is not what wore the seals.



Yes I did. You guys are pointing a lot of the good little tid bits. Keep them coming.


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## sefh3 (Oct 29, 2009)

Nice work again Brad,
If I keep posting about 4 stroking will you post us a video of that. It would help alot of forks here. Keep up the great work!!!!!!!


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## blsnelling (Oct 29, 2009)

sefh3 said:


> Nice work again Brad,
> If I keep posting about 4 stroking will you post us a video of that. It would help alot of forks here. Keep up the great work!!!!!!!



There's an example of that near the beginning of the video with my 440 from Saturday. You can hear me peak it out and then bring it back down.


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## mtfallsmikey (Oct 29, 2009)

Very good Brad! I appreciate all who share their knowledge.

Is 10"/vacuum all that is required?....A friend wanted to borrow my refrigeration vacuum pump to try on his saw....I'm afraid it would be too much, it will draw an A.C. system down to 30" in no time...


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## blsnelling (Oct 29, 2009)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Is 10"/vacuum all that is required?....A friend wanted to borrow my refrigeration vacuum pump to try on his saw....I'm afraid it would be too much, it will draw an A.C. system down to 30" in no time...



.5 bar or 7.25 PSI for 20 seconds is all that's required.


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## stihlboy (Oct 29, 2009)

sefh3 said:


> Nice work again Brad,
> If I keep posting about 4 stroking will you post us a video of that. *It would help alot of forks here.* Keep up the great work!!!!!!!



im not sure i understand how it helps a utencil


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## blsnelling (Oct 29, 2009)

I decided to make the tuning video a seperate thread. Make all your tuning comments there. LINK


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## Termite (Oct 29, 2009)

Thank You, for taking the time to record and post your work. I wish I had the knowledge to do video. 
When I worked on car engines I would use crocus cloth to polish the harmonic balancer. The results were no oil weapage after many miles.


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## sefh3 (Oct 29, 2009)

stihlboy said:


> im not sure i understand how it helps a utencil



Sorry hard to type on these Blackberries. How about folks


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## ropensaddle (Oct 29, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I decided to make the tuning video a seperate thread. Make all your tuning comments there. LINK



Good sounds my friend good sounds lol


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## Arrowhead (Oct 29, 2009)

Thanks Brad for doing this thread. I have a Pioneer P51 that was giving me fits. I don't have my Mityvac yet, so I decided to just pressure test. I definitly found the problem. There is a major air leak behind the reed cage and the seal on the flywheel side. I will order the parts in the morning. I posted some pics of the plates I made and the bubbles (windex) there not to clear but trust me it looked like the saw in the video you made.


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## blsnelling (Oct 29, 2009)

Glad you found your problem


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## jra1100 (Dec 19, 2009)

Brad: You have earned a bunch of ATABOYS with these videos. There is nothing better than good information well presented. Thanks. If I make real nice maybe THALL will send a complimentary puller. Hey a man can dream cant he? JR


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## Evan (Dec 19, 2009)

brad 
i did not read your first post about the leasking seal but it very much suprised me you were even running this saw. what carb issues did it have(was the carb so bad it overshadowed the leaking seal). id think youd be the last person to run a saw with a pretty heavy seal leak. it would only take a couple times squeezn the trigger to know something wasnt right. youd almost instanlty know you need to keep the saw out of the wood.


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## blsnelling (Jan 16, 2014)

Another oldie but goodie.


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