# Do you take your hand off the saw?.....



## techdave

To apply the brake, if so, why?

I am asking cuz of the discussion under "gloves did not help at all", or sumpting like that, in this forum.

I never take my hand off the saw to apply the brake, is there a reason to do so that I have been missing?

Please let me know, eh?


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## J.Gordon

I have never applied the brakes on my saws, (to slow the chain) for me they are a safety feature only.
I do check them once in a while to make sure there working though.


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## stihl sawing

J.Gordon said:


> I have never applied the brakes on my saws, (to slow the chain) for me they are a safety feature only.
> I do check the once in a while to make sure there working though.


Same here.


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## reachtreeservi

No, I don't take my hand off the saw.
I pop my brake with my wrist. After the chain stops.

Especially if I'm moving more than a step or two .

When I'm up in the tree and finish my back-cut. I pop the brake before I pull it out of the cut. 
If I have time I cut the saw off and hang the short ring on the caritool, if not I just let down the lanyard. It's awful tight quarters sometimes, I'm glad the brakes there.


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## 046

sure I take my right hand off to pop the brake. but usually chain has stopped. it's all done in one motion anyways...

used to only use my brakes to check only. 

but.... after all the warnings posted. have modified my habits to always kick on my brake before starting and anytime I need to move more than a step.


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## dumbhunter

*good post*

i have not really thought about it much while i cut, i just check occasionally to make sure it works. if i am cutting up a log i rest the chain on the log, but i usually never apply it.

i may have to rethink how i do things.

excellent post!!!


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## treemandan

There you go! start slapping and popping that handle, if it breaks FIX IT. Always be ready to hit that handle!


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## Brush Hog

Also use wrist. I set it in tree all the time but on the ground not too often.


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## retoid

I take my hand off to hit the brake but only when the bar/chain is not touching any wood. (in the air and can not catch anything)


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## Chainsaw_Sally

*Didja hear the one...*

The last time I took my hand off to hit the brake, my foreman told me the story of "the guy" who went to hit the brake with his hand, only to overshoot it and run his hand / wrist down the bar.  

Of course my foreman's version was delivered at the top of his voice, with many colorful catchphrases added in. In his I believe that "the guy" was actually named F*@#in' Idiot...


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## TimberMcPherson

I use the brake all the time, especially when working around alot of slash and climbing.


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## booboo

*all the time*

I also use the brake all the time, but never take my hand off to set it, just pop it with the wrist. It's really just habit, I don't think about it that much. I use it frequently on the ground, especially moving through slash or climbing over logs, but almost never when limbing on the ground just because thats often just 1 smooth continued motion. Also frequently when starting the saws while climbing, particularly when in an awkward position and when drop starting saws on the ground


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## 2dogs

booboo said:


> I also use the brake all the time, but never take my hand off to set it, just pop it with the wrist. It's really just habit, I don't think about it that much. I use it frequently on the ground, especially moving through slash or climbing over logs, but almost never when limbing on the ground just because thats often just 1 smooth continued motion. Also frequently when starting the saws while climbing, particularly when in an awkward position and when drop starting saws on the ground



Same here.


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## TimberMcPherson

Guys that work for me either use it alot or find another person to work around, Ive seen (and had) to many close calls. Saws find ways to run by themselves, branches pin the throttle, Air leaks develop, guys take falls, lack of feel due to cold or wearing gloves, fatigue etc. Its a good, safe habit which costs nothing and its like putting the pin in a grenade, relying on you holding the hammer down all day isnt always going to be enough.


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## Bermie

Chainsaw_Sally said:


> The last time I took my hand off to hit the brake, my foreman told me the story of "the guy" who went to hit the brake with his hand, only to overshoot it and run his hand / wrist down the bar.



Ditto...I use this example when teaching, lots of people want to use the other hand at first, this is the reason you don't.

I use my wrist or push it forward with my index finger. 
Rotating the right handle down at the same time pushing forward with your left wrist, makes it a bit easier...the saw pivots inside your left hand bringing the brake into contact with your wrist before you have to push it too far forward...less strain on your wrist...

I know WAY too much detail for some...just use the [email protected]#$m thing!


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## 046

yup... I never even thought about using chain break. until I read about all the horror stories of branches etc. snagging trigger. And to always set your brake if you are taking more than a few steps. 

now... that's exactly what I do. set the brakes!
especially when starting my saws... think about this. for large saws, one is yanking pretty hard on starter cord. 

if you slip and saw starts racing with choke on. that would be bad news touching a fast moving chain when you are slightly off balance. 

this goes double starting a chainsaw in a tree...


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## ents

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: 

Waiting for the person from another chain break thread (a while ago) that said he lost too much production using the break. Yep, gotta make that $3K/day. Using that break just cuts into those $$s.

I use it, flick of the wrist and it's set. The only time the hand comes off the saw is to release it.


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## pdqdl

J.Gordon said:


> I have never applied the brakes on my saws, (to slow the chain) for me they are a safety feature only.
> I do check them once in a while to make sure there working though.



That brake is not just there as a safety feature to cover your mistakes, it is there to be used. 

Most manufacturers suggest starting the saw with the brake set. If passing the saw (running) to another person, set it. If you are walking through brush, climbing a tree, or just anywhere near a running saw that is not being actively used to cut wood, SET THE BRAKE!

It's not much different than driving a car. You wouldn't make a quick dash back into the house and leave your car running in gear with no parking brake set, would you? There is NO neutral on a chainsaw.


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## techdave

*Thanks for all the great answers guys!*

I am going to print some of these quotes and show them to my next class of "civilians"(-as opposed to trained agency volunteers).


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## turnkey4099

I also was one not used to setting it. But a few days ago I put a cut in my boot and nicked a toe trying to unstick the saw while limbing. From now on, it will be Cut with the saw or set the brake. (see thread 'complacency plus stupidity"

Harry K


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## windthrown

Well, having posted the 'do you set the brake when you start your saw?' AS poll, the most common reply was 'no.' I do not set the brake when I start a saw. Mainly becasue I start a lot set to fast-idle, and I like to rev the saw after starting. Mental set; the chain will move when I start the saw. No biggie. I also drop start all my saws becasue it is easier for me to start them that way (starter in my left hand and top handle in my right, my much stonger grip). I also think that is is safer to drop start as you have a better grip on the saw, and you are not kneeling with your foot on the handle and having to start cross-grip with the right hand. For me that is just bass-ackwards. In the rare case that I do start a saw on the ground, the way that the manual has it, I do set the brake when I start it. 

I have had several instances where the saw has kicked back and me and my reaction was to release my right trigger hand and set the brake with my right palm, which is how I set mine (hand open or knuckles down, with the right wrist/palm forward). I have also had the brakes set by my left wrist on the top handle spinning in response to kick-back several times. That is a fast motion kick-back, and the response was as designed; kill the chain before it goes any further back. I usually set the brake when I set the saw down while it is running, or I walk more than a step with it running. I have never had a mis-hap setting the brake. I always wear gloves when cutting. 

Note here that I do not have full motion of my left hand or full strength of my left arm due to repetitive strain and tendonitis. So I have to rely more on my right hand and arm when cutting, and hence why I use a saw the way that I do. My GF is a leftie; try cutting with your non-dominant side some time. I am amazed that they do not have a few left handed chainsaw models out there. TH saws are pretty ambodexterous though, but not ergonomic.


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## justintimemoto

i use the brake depends what i am doing if i am walking around or something i use the brake i usually take my hand or wrist to put it on all depends on what the situation is......and i put it on when i am backing away from a tree or something.......my theory if its there use it theres a reason for it being there


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## J.Gordon

pdqdl said:


> That brake is not just there as a safety feature to cover your mistakes, it is there to be used.
> 
> Most manufacturers suggest starting the saw with the brake set. If passing the saw (running) to another person, set it. If you are walking through brush, climbing a tree, or just anywhere near a running saw that is not being actively used to cut wood, SET THE BRAKE!
> 
> It's not much different than driving a car. You wouldn't make a quick dash back into the house and leave your car running in gear with no parking brake set, would you? There is NO neutral on a chainsaw.




Good advise, since this thread came out I have been using the brake a lot more. Any extra measures that can avoid an unnecessary injury won’t bother me at all.


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## bendtrees

Someone in a related thread stated something to the effect of
"if I'm moving, the brake is on... those guys you see walking around gunning the saw are idiots..." trip once without the balance to chuck the saw away and you are hosed. 
Well, this is what my untrustworthy memory conjures up. But the point is, it left an impression on me. I use brakes a lot, not all the time, but frequently. I actually, think the speed factor is negligible cause once the brake is set, I'll juggle the 200 if I want. You get real fast at setting the brake (wrist rotation) and releasing it, but the benefit is that I move the bar quickly to my next cut because I'm not waiting for the chain to slow. I hope this isn't too hard on the saw, but I'm looking forward to wearing out a brake just to feel like a good consumer of safety.


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## oldirty

are you hitting the brakes at full throttle? baaad news for your saw bub, its not just the brake thats gonna blow.


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## bendtrees

No, not full throttle. I'm completely off the throttle, but chain is still moving. Am I whipflashing the crank? Hmmmn, What other problems do you foresee? 

Thanks a bunch, suppose I may not have fully thought this through.


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## Oneday

Good thread. Need to have a think about some of the ways I do things.


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## Bermie

bendtrees said:


> No, not full throttle. I'm completely off the throttle, but chain is still moving. Am I whipflashing the crank? Hmmmn, What other problems do you foresee?
> 
> Thanks a bunch, suppose I may not have fully thought this through.



As long as you are letting the saw come off revs before you flip the brake, you'll be fine, I've got 8+ years in two of my saws, chainbrake is used on starting, walking, when set down, namely a lot during the course of a day...I have not worn out a band, clutch, bearing or drum YET.

The manufacturers have designed this safety feature to be used...used properly, it will take it.
Slamming the brake on when revs are high is a no-no, and problems can develop.


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## pdqdl

*Back to the driving analogy:*

This is pretty easy guys. It's just like the parking brake on your car. It's used to PARK the chain.

You probably shouldn't be trying to set the chainbrake between cuts. You don't use the parking brake when you come to a red light, do you? So long as you are still cutting (driving), don't use the brake unless it's an emergency.

Quit cutting (driving): set the brake. There is no neutral, and it drives just like an automatic, forward only  

Slow down for traffic (between cuts): take your foot/finger off the gas.


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## oldirty

pdqdl said:


> This is pretty easy guys. It's just like the parking brake on your car. It's used to PARK the chain.
> 
> You probably shouldn't be trying to set the chainbrake between cuts. You don't use the parking brake when you come to a red light, do you? So long as you are still cutting (driving), don't use the brake unless it's an emergency.
> 
> Quit cutting (driving): set the brake. There is no neutral, and it drives just like an automatic, forward only
> 
> Slow down for traffic (between cuts): take your foot/finger off the gas.




very well said pd.


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## turnkey4099

oldirty said:


> very well said pd.



I was out cutting today. Amazing how hard it is to break a bad habit. Tried to remember to set the brake when moving around. Remembered probably only about 25 percent of the time.

Harry K


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## Bermie

oldirty said:


> very well said pd.




I drive a stickshift....


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## oldirty

lol. ya i said it. 

i know how to run a saw. 

but some of the saw abuse that ive seen from coworkers can only lead me to believe that your average joe schmoe chainsaw user will put themselves in constant danger.

never mind the wear and tear of the saw itself. how does joe homeowner get his pinched saw out? he pulls on the thing with all his might!

i know everyone has a right to a chainsaw but like driving some shouldnt. chicks and oldtimers too!

lol


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## Bermie

oldirty said:


> but some of the saw abuse that ive seen from coworkers can only lead me to believe that your average joe schmoe chainsaw user will put themselves in constant danger.
> 
> never mind the wear and tear of the saw itself. how does joe homeowner get his pinched saw out? he pulls on the thing with all his might!
> 
> i know everyone has a right to a chainsaw but like driving some shouldnt. chicks and oldtimers too!
> 
> lol



Yup, I agree, but when you can buy one at the hardware store like a hammer or a drill...
Its a bit insensitive to mention it I suppose, but another thread here tells of a guy who killed himself when he got kickback from a pinched saw and it hit him in the chest...

Put the chainbrake ON when trying to free a trapped saw, if its trapped that bad, turn it off too.


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## buckbandit

Weather or not you apply the chain break when you take a step, set the saw down, hand it off to your partner ect. The most important thing is don't move with chain spinning and look first then move. Something I do when turning around with the saw in my hands is point the bar straight down, so unless the guy is grabbin my but he shouldn't get cut. I'm not knockin the chain break, and I'd never give anyone heck for useing it excessively but properly. When in a tree I not only set the break I also shut down the saw so I can hear what's going on around me, includeing if the tree is cracking. I'd have to say that I use the chain brake more now than I did 15 yrs ago and I try to set the right example to the new guys. Oh and to the original Q. You don't have to take your hand off saw to apply break but as long as the saw is under control it shouldn't realy matter.


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## techdave

*RE: Worries about wearing out the chainbrake*

Hi you all, this last week we replaced one of our tophandled echos we use for brushing chaparral plants along side the trails.

After 10 years of weekly misuse and abuse by volunteers who are often abrupt and clumsy aobut applyin the brake before moving from place to place (policy is 10 feet or 3 steps or major shifting of your footing) the brake was still working.

I have yet to wear out the brake in my 46 cc "Daverized" crapsman/poulan either, and its got over 300 commercial hours on it.

FWIW, dave. (YMMV)


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## bing

TimberMcPherson said:


> I use the brake all the time, especially when working around alot of slash and climbing.



me too... I bump it with my wrist.


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## stltreedr

I set the brake with my wrist every time I finish a cut, whether in the tree or on the ground. I also wear Chaps, hearing and eye protection. Who cares if you burn up the brake? Buy a new one if it wears out, which it probably won't as long as you aren't setting it at full throttle.


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## formationrx

techdave said:


> To apply the brake, if so, why?
> 
> I am asking cuz of the discussion under "gloves did not help at all", or sumpting like that, in this forum.
> 
> I never take my hand off the saw to apply the brake, is there a reason to do so that I have been missing?
> 
> Please let me know, eh?



if you are sending a saw up the tree to a partner you fire it up and brake it and send it off... if you are up in the tree and the space is tight and you are making awkward cuts from hard positions braking comes in handy (you wont nick yourself)... basically its for added safety & higher risk situations when you can get wounded or maim someone else, or when fatigue sets in and you feel yourself getting sloppy... that chain will open you up like hamburger... so be aware when you need need the brake on....


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## bootboy

I will when I'm cutting big pieces that I push off by hand. I always take my finger off the throttle, wait for the chain to stop, then bump the brake with my hand, sometimes my wrist, depending on my position.


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## TreeGuyHR

046 said:


> sure I take my right hand off to pop the brake. but usually chain has stopped. it's all done in one motion anyways...
> 
> used to only use my brakes to check only.
> 
> but.... after all the warnings posted. have modified my habits to always kick on my brake before starting and anytime I need to move more than a step.



Yea, I should probably do that. Never have in close to forty years (knocks on wood). That's the thing with bad habits -- they're habits. That 32 in. bar on the 046 when I drop start it doesn't ever touch the ground (but maybe I should be thinking about my foot?).


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## techdave

*Thanks for all the responses!*

Hi guys, thanks for what you have posted here, not only does it help with this issue of braking before moving on , but it gives "street cred" to the fact that pros work safely and take precautions.


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## Dave Boyt

A point to go along with that is idle setting. A fast idle that turns the chain (I've seen guys using saws that way) can not only bite, but burn out the clutch when you do use the brake. If the blade doesn't stop spinning, back off the idle!


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## naturelover

Snap it with my wrist with both hands on the saw.

Usually not to move around, but if my hand goes near the chain (clearing noodles or something), the brake goes on. And if its rough terrain I'm walking over, I'll set it then too.


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## TreeGuyHR

TreeGuyHR said:


> Yea, I should probably do that. Never have in close to forty years (knocks on wood). That's the thing with bad habits -- they're habits. That 32 in. bar on the 046 when I drop start it doesn't ever touch the ground (but maybe I should be thinking about my foot?).



I figured I should read my ANSI Z-133 2012again. 

Hmm

"6.3 Chainsaws

6.3.4 *Drop-starting* a chain saw is prohibited. A chain saw shall be started with the chain brake engaged and the operator holding the saw firmly in a manner that minimizes movement of the saw when pulling the starter handle."

So, in a tree chunking a big spar, I'm supposed to hold an 046 " ...in a manner that minimizes movement"... when starting it? Sure seems like you want to drop start it, as opposed to pull the cord with the saw on the tree in front of you! The only exception would be if it stalls in the cut, and you re-start. I can see using the chain break, fine, but there are other situations in a tree were you are just going to drop start it, such as when you are positioned and nowhere near a limb to rest it on. I never have started a saw in a tree resting it on anything.

Am I missing something here?

On a side note, I put a full wrap handle and double set of bigger dogs on my 361, so that it was safer to start a cut (the lowest tooth is much bigger). I feel better jabbing that in before I take the chain break off. Which is also a new habit -- I used to take the chain break off with the tip pointing straight up, so I could have a better hold on the handle when I put it up to the tree sideways to start cutting. I still do it that way with the 046 and a long bar because of the weight; I'm afraid I could loose my grip fumbling with the chain break and have the saw land in my lap if the dogs come loose.:msp_scared: 

Someone have a better idea?


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## Stihl_man

I ALWAYS put my chain brake on, no exceptions, other than moving along a felled spar pole chunkin it. It is an instinct, take more than two steps, chain brake. I don't even have to think about it. Also I never drop start, always on the ground or leg lock method. But being a product of "a culture of safety" it has just been instilled in me. Remember play it safe out there boys and girls and come home safe and in one piece at the end of the day:msp_thumbsup:


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## stroken56

If I'm walking and not cutting, I set the brake with the back of my wrist. I pitch the saw up and rotate my hand forward on the handle to set the brake. It's almost a natural motion to me.


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## woodchuck357

*I use alot of saws that don't have chain breaks*

But most of my saws DO have them and most of them have been modified to trip with the slightest movement of my wrist. The lever has been moved closer to the handle. It IS rarely a problem when the break is unintentionally bumped, but I'll live with it. I never set the break with the throttle hand.


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## ArborItaly

reachtreeservi said:


> No, I don't take my hand off the saw.
> I pop my brake with my wrist. After the chain stops.
> 
> Especially if I'm moving more than a step or two .
> 
> When I'm up in the tree and finish my back-cut. I pop the brake before I pull it out of the cut.
> If I have time I cut the saw off and hang the short ring on the caritool, if not I just let down the lanyard. It's awful tight quarters sometimes, I'm glad the brakes there.



same here i allways work like that, more safe and the wrist move work great, it becomes a standard procedure to me.


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