# Hook up thermostat for Outdoor Wood Boiler



## rsnyder (Sep 6, 2008)

I am just finishing up installing my Central Boiler outdoor wood boiler. I have run into a snag on how to hook up my existing thermostat so that it will turn on the blower instead of trying to fire the oil burner.

I came across this website when doing a google search and saw this old thread from a few years back http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=38961 but it did not work.

I have a Ritetemp 8022C thermostat, down in the basement it hooks to an old (1974) Newmac wood/oil combination furnace. Only the blower will be used the burner is shot on it, I have a backup propane gun on the boiler. The wires go to a circuit board on the furnace above the circuit board I have a silver box Honeywell R8405C1007 and a black box that starts with R8225 (can't read the rest)

At the thermostat I have three wires: Black to W, White to Rh, and Red never hooked up.
At the furnace: Black to W, White to R, and red goes to the black box then out and to G. Two wires connect R & W to the oil burner. Two wires go from two T screws to behind the silver box.

Here's a picture of the furnace circuit board:






Thanks 

Rob


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## Wirenut2266 (Sep 6, 2008)

*Hold On, I say Hold On.....*

I read your post three x, I "think" I know what you want, but......This outside boiler, how does the control circuit work? Is it looking for a contact closure (i.e. thermostat) or is it looking for a 24 volt control voltage to pull in a control relay? As far as that picture you posted, that appears to be a "fan center". It has it's own trans/relay, thermostat gets tied into that, then fan center controls 120 volt load. (I.e. pump, blower, etc). 

Tell me if this scenerio is correct: Your t-stat calls for heat, you want blower in basement to come on, then circulate water from OWB?

Let me know, I'll walk you through it. I gunno have "a few" more beeers now, we'll get this figured out


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## mga (Sep 6, 2008)

Wirenut2266 said:


> I read your post three x, I "think" I know what you want, but......This outside boiler, how does the control circuit work? Is it looking for a contact closure (i.e. thermostat) or is it looking for a 24 volt control voltage to pull in a control relay? As far as that picture you posted, that appears to be a "fan center". It has it's own trans/relay, thermostat gets tied into that, then fan center controls 120 volt load. (I.e. pump, blower, etc).
> 
> *Tell me if this scenerio is correct: Your t-stat calls for heat, you want blower in basement to come on, then circulate water from OWB?*
> 
> Let me know, I'll walk you through it. I gunno have "a few" more beeers now, we'll get this figured out



i believe that's what he wants, but he also doesn't want the oil burner to fire up when it calls for heat and the fan.


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## Butch(OH) (Sep 6, 2008)

I am not schooled in HVAC so I cant just give the hook up like " hook this letter to that one" etc but I did get mine to work and can tell you how to get started trouble shooting ( I think) What you need to do is make contact between the R and G when you call cal for heat that is what makes the fan run. Just two wires, not three. You did leave the old furnace powered up right? With it powered up jump between the R and G terminals, with a length of wire, you can do it holding the wire with your fingers, low voltage. The fan only should come on, if not then there is problems with the control or fan that need to be fixed. If the fan comes on then you have wiring or thermostat problems. There are some differences in how the thermostats work for some of the newer systems, some you can switch a wire inside and make them work, some not.. The instructions that came with mine were pretty clear. Again I am not familiar with the one you chose. With an Ohmmeter you dont need an instruction book, you need to find terminals that make contact when you move the lever above room temp. Then wire them to the "R" and "G" on the furnace. Sorry if I have confused more instead of helped. If i had your stuff i my hands I could hook it up quicker than I can type, I just dont know the prim and proper terminology.


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## Wirenut2266 (Sep 6, 2008)

Butch: You are correct, on your application. But he has a fan control center in his control circuit, that may need to be re-configured. Lets not steer the poor fella in the wrong direction here!! Still need to know how boiler is controlled.....Is it sending out 24v. to t-stat and back to complete ciruit, or....I'll bet it has it's own fan control center for control purposes. Now, just cause I call it a fan control center, doesnt mean it has a fan.....here we go again, beer me!


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## Butch(OH) (Sep 6, 2008)

Wirenut2266 said:


> Butch: You are correct, on your application. But he has a fan control center in his control circuit, that may need to be re-configured. Lets not steer the poor fella in the wrong direction here!! Still need to know how boiler is controlled.....Is it sending out 24v. to t-stat and back to complete ciruit, or....I'll bet it has it's own fan control center for control purposes. Now, just cause I call it a fan control center, doesnt mean it has a fan.....here we go again, beer me!



Your probably right, I should keep my trap shut here because i am not very learned about them. I can tell you that unless he has extensively modified his Central Boiler operating system that his house thermostat had exactly nothing to do with the boiler. It runs all buy it's lonesome with it's own separate control that keep the circulating water between x and X temp. This is done outside at the boiler. The pumps run all the time, 24-7 pumping water through a heat exchanger in the house duct work. The only thing the house 'stat is run the fan when there is a call for heat. 

Maybe this info will help you help him. Ill step out of the way,LOL


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## rsnyder (Sep 6, 2008)

I guess I should have gotten on here a little sooner, but I've had a few  beers in me now. But anyways, yep the circulating pump runs 24/7 and the blower is from an old furnace that is no longer in service. The guys from another forum may have it, my fan/limit switch from my old wood/oil combination furnace may not be letting the blower kick on. I'll investigate a little more in the mornin' and let you know.

Thanks for all the responses and I'll reread em all in the mornin'


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## Wirenut2266 (Sep 7, 2008)

WTF: Why didn't you say OWB was totally independant. Hook t-stat to to red and green on fan control center and walk away...Butch was correct! Now we have another problem: You mentioned somethin about "another" forum... All answers to lifes twists and turns can and will be solved here, PERIOD. Next time I hear somethin bout surfin "other" forums, Neg rep will be dished out a plenty. Example: Just the other day my roids flared up, posted on here for advice, was told to sit on warm not hot idleing MS361 for 3 minutes. Well guess what, did as told, roids all gone now Now, if you have an STD, that "may" be a good enough reason for other website uses!!! Bruce

P.s. If you can't get fan to run, yes, fan switch would be only problem left unless wiring error, Bruce.


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## rsnyder (Sep 7, 2008)

See, I didn't find this great, wonderful forum  until after I started getting help in the "other" one.

But yea, I think the problem is the limit switch. I won't be able to play with it again until tomorrow. But the limit switch has three wires; blue to fan-load, red to limit-load, and black to limit-line. I figure if I connect the fan-load and limit-line together it would bypass the switch, maybe? But I'll play with it tomorrow. 

Anymore ideas, and I'll drop those "other" guys.

Rob


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## mtfallsmikey (Sep 8, 2008)

*Ok...*

What type of limit do you have? Is it like an L4064 honeywell, that has a bi-metal spring? A limit switch by itself would only break the circuit (to burner) at 200 deg. or so. The fan part starts the fan at a predetermined or adjustable temp. in the supply plenum, say 130 deg. You could use a SPDT switch on the furnace on the "R" wire to the stat, switch. I'm using a spare Honeywell R8229 relay to power a second stat for wood; start the blower and circ. for the hydrocoil on temp. fall. Keeps things simple, leaves the oil furnace operating normally...also, do you have central A.C. on this system?


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## rsnyder (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks for the reply, I believe it is an L4064 limiter, I can't find a number on it. I placed a jumper between the fan-load and limit-line but it just runs the fan continuously no matter what the temp is set for. I'm trying to avoid buying more parts, but I don't think this is working out to well. I have no AC, and the furnace is not being used anymore (I have propane backup on the OWB) so I'm just trying to get the blower to kick on when the house calls for heat.

Thanks
Rob


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## ghitch75 (Sep 8, 2008)

rsnyder said:


> I am just finishing up installing my Central Boiler outdoor wood boiler. I have run into a snag on how to hook up my existing thermostat so that it will turn on the blower instead of trying to fire the oil burner.
> 
> I came across this website when doing a google search and saw this old thread from a few years back http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=38961 but it did not work.
> 
> ...



that looks like a primary control for an oil furnace....won't work....you need a fan center...24 volt transformer and a 24 volt coil single pole single throw relay....then get you a heating only T-stat and hook R to 1 side of the transformer and W to 1 side of the coil on the relay and the other side of the relay to the other side of the transformer....then hook the hot wire to your blower on the relay contacts....


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## panhead9 (Sep 8, 2008)

You cant use the existing fan limit switch as it will never come on as you are not using the burner you need a honeywell RA89 switching relay about $80 
here is a link to the relay you need and a link to the wiring diagram your fan will be the load, L1 and L2 self explanatory, and T&T will go to the 2 tstat wires

First RA89 control
https://customer.honeywell.com/honeywell/ProductInfo.aspx/RA89A1074

wiring diagram P2 Figure 2 use left diagram do not use right one

http://customer.honeywell.com/techlit/pdf/69-0000s/69-2041.pdf

Any questions let me know I can get you hooked up

Also why do you want to run this fan? Just to circulate air thru house or do you have a hot water coil in furnace?


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## rsnyder (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks for the reply, I started thinking that I couldn't do what I wanted to with my existing setup.

I have an heat exchanger in the plenum, the downstairs of my house is heated by forced hot air.


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## Wirenut2266 (Sep 8, 2008)

*I told ya so........*

Ha, Did i read something bout a fan control center???? I swear I read that somewhere, dunno.....Stop why your ahead. Now like I said, a fan control center will do the trick, regardless of some dumb limit switch! Time to hire an electrician and be done wit it! Sounds like a little too in depth for the average joe to be done properly.


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## panhead9 (Sep 8, 2008)

With that fan switch jump RtoG it is 24v so you wont get whacked.this should bring fan on This is the same as setting your tstat switch to "fan on" I cant really see that control you have If you post number along with tail numbers of control I can help you more. If this works just wire the 2 tstat wires to these terminals but be sure to set the fan to low speed cause with that setup you will tend to pull a lot of heat out of coil and if you use R-G you will not have the fan limit switch to shut down fan when it gets too cool.


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## mtfallsmikey (Sep 9, 2008)

The control in the pic is a Honeywell R8184G, strictly for control of the oil burner...the RA89 will work, also an RA832A will work as well....or, use a line voltage t-stat to the blower, just choose the proper speed lead. This is the same setup as mine,I have a CB5036 OWB, Heil hydrocoil installed in a oil-fired forced air furnace, using the R8229 relay just cuz I sucked it out of an old heat pump air handler, hooked up to a separate T87 honeywell 'stat. That way the oil furnace can operate normally without manually switching between the two.


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## rsnyder (Sep 9, 2008)

Thanks for the help guys, I'm going to pick up an RA89 and I'll let you know how I make out.

Rob


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## mga (Sep 9, 2008)

i have a honeywell R182c 1051

transformer and dual relays....would that work?


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## ngzcaz (Sep 9, 2008)

Ok Mr Wizard.. I mean Wirenutt... how about a setup that has a themostat in the back of the stove( small screwdriver changes the setting to whatever ) and has the usual overflow tube out the left side of the stove. How do I hook up something that tells me what the temp of the water as I go to charge the OWB in the front of the stove ? Going down the steps in the basement to check the temp on the oil burner aquastat doesnt cut it.
Without buying another stove NO ONE has a feasible alternative. Any ideas ?


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## bill's firewood (Sep 9, 2008)

rob, seeing how im rite in youre neighborhood i'll give you some help. Call kurt [email protected] 493 1218. Lavalley plumbing and heating , i had same issue when i tied my CB into my existing system. solution was seperate low voltage t-stat and a relay. now i can control either oil burner or boiler w the respective t-stat. 1 t-stat will fire oil furnace and run blower using existing fan limit switch,the other t-stat will operate the blower to blow air across the coil in the plenum.Call him n tell him bill from deer river referred you,if you want. Good luck,bill


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## Wirenut2266 (Sep 9, 2008)

*No Respect.....*

Well, I have a couple idea's that will work no problem. One is a remote sensor, tied into digital display controller, then from there you can do a ton. I have a few idea's, but to be honest, none are within a reasonable $$$ figure. I'll assume you want to spend let's say $50, ain't gonna happen, Sorry. Now at that $150 mark, i'll set you up with part #'s and diagrams. Give me a couple days, i'll come up with a cheap alterative.

Here is a longshot, do you own a Fluke Meter? We could install a type j,k,l temp probe in water tube. This would run with dirt cheap class-2 wire to Fluke meter. Kinda dumb, but flip fluke on to read temp.....+/- .1 degree accuracy. Sensor only $20 I bet. 

Let me ponder......


I'm almost positive you can get a White-Rogers programmable t-stat with a remote sensor. Look at Grainger.com Should be cheeeep.

I'll check back later, maybe one of these Hvac Tech's will chime in, and i will use the word Tech's loosely


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## Wirenut2266 (Sep 9, 2008)

*Maybe'''''*

Here's one option Go to Grainger.com Search "Panel mount thermometer". Look at those. As far as t-stat thing in rear for switching as you asked, not a problem.....Bruce


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## panhead9 (Sep 9, 2008)

If you wanted to spend the beans You could do all you wanted with this with a Tekmar.


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## mtfallsmikey (Sep 10, 2008)

*Or....*

Just install Johnson Controls Metasys...do it all from a PC


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## Wirenut2266 (Sep 10, 2008)

*That's it....I'm toast*

Yup, No cheap way of doing it. You want a Caddy for the price of a Buick. Going to have to spend some $$$ and do it up right. Prolly need an Electrician as well, or good Hvac fella. Either way, it will be done right first time and hopefully trouble free. Don't bother trying yourself, not to be negative, but when I start troubleshootin somebody elses mess, well, you can guess the new adjusted hourly rate hike. This is not a dangerous project by no means, but you better have a very good grasp of control wiring. Bruce


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## Wirenut2266 (Sep 10, 2008)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Just install Johnson Controls Metasys...do it all from a PC



I do love the johnson controls stuff, spendy but well worth it!


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## ngzcaz (Sep 10, 2008)

Wirenutt.. do I understand you correctly ? I went to Grainger and found the panel mount thermometers. Can one of these be wired to the thermostat in the rear and the temp will be shown in the front on the panel mount ? Like I said, I'm not sure what the probe ( if any ) looks like, just that its a screwdriver slot in the mechanism to adjust the water temp..


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## Wirenut2266 (Sep 10, 2008)

*Sorry No:*

No they are two independant items. Thermometer is just what it is, just a display, no control. You are going to have to invest $150 plus for parts to do what you want. Then put labor on it, misc parts, $300 plus......There is just no cheap way my friend. Like I said, contact someone local, tell what you want for operational control, they should be able to figure it out. Sorry, no new saw for you!!!!


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## mtfallsmikey (Sep 11, 2008)

*I worry...*

Hey, Panhead, Wirenut....Let's write a book about how do do some redneck-style control wiring...but, who pays for the liability insurance we're bound to need after someone eiether electrocutes themselves or burns their house down? Seriously tho, I remember seeing a post on The Wall over at heatinghelp.com about a wireless remote thermometer, gotta look up that puppy...going to set it up on my primary loop from the OWB, so I can see the supply temp, have alarm set up if it drops below say....150 deg. or so.


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## ghitch75 (Sep 11, 2008)

look here..this is what i use...

http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=14

cheap too!!!!


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## Wirenut2266 (Sep 11, 2008)

*Holly Hanna Batman......*

That's cheap. Will prolly work good for average joe. No offense.....Most of these work well, but have so many parameters to set your ears start to bleed. That looks identical to Red Lion, but they cost $150+. On a serious note: You can get killed from 5 volts/250 Milliamp. So just cause us folks here say ah.......low voltage, no problem, think again. So we all want to save $250 on a Hvac/electrician bill, but what is your home worth. Can't put a value to my dogs, kids, or wife, o'kay maybe the wife.....


Not to be rude: Stick with what you know! Know your limitations. Christ, support your local small business folks. That's what there for. The minute we start tweeking all our basic home controls, out go all warranties. Then, you must remember, that poor bastad who buys your home when you move on. He has problems, calls an hvac fella, watch out. if he is like me, as stated earlier: if I need to clean up your cobbled mess, prepare yourself when you open your invoice with my letterhead on it. 

My final note on this thread: Less is better, do it old school and be dun wit it!:censored:


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## Wirenut2266 (Sep 11, 2008)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Hey, Panhead, Wirenut....Let's write a book about how do do some redneck-style control wiring...but, who pays for the liability insurance we're bound to need after someone eiether electrocutes themselves or burns their house down? Seriously tho, I remember seeing a post on The Wall over at heatinghelp.com about a wireless remote thermometer, gotta look up that puppy...going to set it up on my primary loop from the OWB, so I can see the supply temp, have alarm set up if it drops below say....150 deg. or so.



Mt: Never seen/heard such a critter? I assume Honeywell? If you are correct....SWEEEEETTTT. That would help alot of these folks out tremendously. Yeh, A guy could draw and post 6 generic wiring schematics for owb or wood stove controls to tie into home hvac system. That would just open up wayyyy to many cans of worms...

I'll fully admit it fellas: I'M DUMB, NOT STUPID:monkey:


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## urhstry (Sep 11, 2008)

New Forum! OWB Tech


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## rsnyder (Sep 16, 2008)

Just wanted you guys to know how I made out. I ended up purchasing a Honeywell RA89A switching relay and it works perfect. Thanks for the help everyone.

Rob


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## fordzoo (Dec 5, 2008)

panhead9 said:


> With that fan switch jump RtoG it is 24v so you wont get whacked.this should bring fan on This is the same as setting your tstat switch to "fan on" I cant really see that control you have If you post number along with tail numbers of control I can help you more. If this works just wire the 2 tstat wires to these terminals but *be sure to set the fan to low speed* cause with that setup you will tend to pull a lot of heat out of coil and if you use R-G you will not have the fan limit switch to shut down fan when it gets too cool.



Thank GOD I found this forum! I purchased a used Taylor OWB and installed it myself, but was having problems figuring out how to thermostatically control the inhouse furnace fan. Piece of cake once I came across your info here, however I had to disconnect the A/C because it came on when I hooked up a secondary t-stat to the R&G terrminals to control the fan only.

Now for my questions: I have an older model Whirlpool natural gas furnace (about 15 years?), how do I set the fan speed to low?

And does it matter what the fan limit switch is set to for this application?

Thanks for the wonderful advice. I'm just a hard workin' mama, trying to avoid a service call and save the family a little cash. Do I deserve a beer now?


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## mtfallsmikey (Dec 8, 2008)

Fan/limit switch should be in line BEFORE the relay..DO NOT BYPASS IT!
Look at the wiring diagram with the furnace...red=low speed, black=hi, yel=med.,some are different...most follow this color coding scheme. I wired my fan on low for heat...hi/med. hi for A.C.


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## fordzoo (Dec 11, 2008)

Thanks!


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## pintopaul (Nov 2, 2011)

*help need help*

hello purchased a used outdoor wood boiler have all the lines hooked up to exchanger in my oil furnace now i need to wire another thermostat in i want it to run the fan not the oil furnace, i purchased a honeywell r8285a1048 fan center but the directions suck i need help.... thanks paul


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