# First day with Alaskan



## Rockfarmer (Dec 5, 2008)

Well, I finally got around to millin! :greenchainsaw: I did alright. My first project was to make a beam 8" x 16" x 16' for my garage. It came out pretty good, still didnt have a big enough log. I wound up with a 7 3/4" x 15" kind of tapered but good enough. The first cut was made with the ladder, only took me 3 tries to get it parallel to the heart and at the right height. Next came the mini mill and it worked great but I didnt have it squared up right so it cut at an angle, doouh. Now I got to get it out of the woods and I dont think my little 4 wheela can handle it, its heavy! All in all 4 hrs of fun in the sawdust, I like, right back at it tomorrow. Saw ran great, 045AV Super!! I gave it a real good cleaning after and tune up. Heres a couple pics.


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## dustytools (Dec 5, 2008)

Nice job Rockfarmer. I have often thought about making an axle with wheels and a trailer hitch that could be attached with ratchet straps or something similar to a log or cant to wheel them out of the woods with my ATV. My thoughts are to jack one end of the log with a log jack and then slip the axle under it and secure it, then raise the opposite end and do the same with the trailer hitch, kinda making the log itself into a trailer.


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## Rockfarmer (Dec 5, 2008)

*Dustytools*

you read my mind,.. I was thinking the exact same thing. I probably could drag the beam with one end up on the rack but the bike would want to wheely and id rather not push it. I do have a friend that dragged out an 800 lb moose a mile like that, same bike, game warden on the front to keep it down. I could probably get my backhoe down there but it would be an all day affair, not sure if its worth it  I'll figure out something


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## MotorSeven (Dec 5, 2008)

Lookin good. I too was amazed at how heavy a cant can be, makes you back-up & punt sometimes. I have been hunting for an old 3 point tractor auger & scavenge the frame, put big fat wheels on it & go grab a log. I guess i am too cheap to buy a log arch.................... 

RD


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## Rockfarmer (Dec 5, 2008)

I just realized i got an old trailer out on the scrap pile that might do the job,... I got to go have a look at that :monkey:

nope,.. n.g.


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## Brmorgan (Dec 5, 2008)

Looks better than my first day's production! I had issues with uneven thicknesses and tapering too until I really got things figured out. A good, small level, chalkline, and a framing square are must-haves to get things really accurate. How are you attaching the ladder to the log? To get it perfectly parallel to the center on the first try, you'll need to use end blocks or rails and attach them such that when you put the ladder on top of them, the distance from the top of the ladder to the pith center is the same at each end. Here's how I do it:







I wasn't making a box-heart beam with that log, so I don't have any lines drawn on it. If I was though, I would draw the box around the center of the log on both ends, then measure the distance between the line of cut and the bottom of the end block, and bolt both on so that they're equal. I use a level to make sure that the tops of each end block are parallel with each other, to eliminate any twisting when I put the guide board down. This will give you an idea of what I mean:





If the log is tapered, you have to make sure that distance X on one end is equal to distance Y on the other. Since I started milling with the end blocks like this, I haven't ever had a problem with off-square or tapered beams or boards yet.

As for the cut sequence of a box-heart beam, here's how I do it:





Cut 1 is with the guide board/ladder and Alaskan, cut 2 is done with the Mini-Mill or other vertical mill equivalent. Then I drop the Alaskan to the thickness of beam I want, and do cut 3. Then roll the log 90 degrees and complete cut 4 with the Alaskan. To increase accuracy at the cost of extra work, it would be preferable to drop the mill and do cut 3 first instead of cut 1, because the mill's depth of cut is indexed to the top of the chain's kerf instead of the bottom. This makes it more difficult though because the log has to be rolled 180 degrees to make the subsequent cuts. 

This wouldn't work 100% with the type of beam you made though, since it is wider than the maximum depth of an Alaskan mill. So to do it with the Mini-Mill, do cut 1 and 2, then measure the width you want and snap 2 chalklines: one for the cut line and one to index the mini-mill's guide rail to, so that everything's square. Then cut the other side off as the third cut, then the bottom slab as the fourth. This way you never have to turn the log.



dustytools said:


> Nice job Rockfarmer. I have often thought about making an axle with wheels and a trailer hitch that could be attached with ratchet straps or something similar to a log or cant to wheel them out of the woods with my ATV. My thoughts are to jack one end of the log with a log jack and then slip the axle under it and secure it, then raise the opposite end and do the same with the trailer hitch, kinda making the log itself into a trailer.



That's exactly what I do with the longer logs. I have a small bunk that I built with a couple wheelbarrow wheels and a trailer hitch which goes on the quad's end of the log/beam. Then I have a smaller bunk that just consists of two more wheelbarrow wheels and and axle welded to a piece of shallow conveyor-belt trough for the rear end. I'll try to find a picture of what I have, they're under a few inches of snow now. Two points of warning though - the two parts need to be connected by a chain or cable, or else the rear axle will want to pull off the log if you hit a snag or bump, and also unless the front rig has a pivoting bunk (mine doesn't) it's hard to keep the log secure as you go around corners, because the log keeps pivoting back and forth in the tie straps. I've broken a couple straps because of this, so I got my hands on a big ol' flange bearing that I'm going to make a heavy duty lazy-susan thing out of for next year so the bunk will turn with the log.

If you want to spend a few bucks to be able to haul logs easier, do a search on here for a "log arch". They're the easiest and most versatile way to haul logs with a quad, because you can just drive them right over top of the log, you don't have to lift the log first to get it on top of the trailer. I'll be building one soon.

EDIT: Found a pic of my log haulers (sort of).





They're in the very bottom-right corner of the shot, unfortunately barely visible and upside down. But those things hauled the two 4X20" 20-foot cants in the foreground out of the bush with no problems at all, must have been 600-800 pounds because it was all I could do to get one end of a cant off the ground and onto the trailers. You can see the spikes I welded to the bottom of the one bunk to dig into the log to keep it from slipping out, unfortunately they dig up a beam surface something horrible though.


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## Beetlekilled (Dec 5, 2008)

*ATV skidder*

You might try building one of these out of an old skid plate, with the right dimensions/angles. I've heard of guys doing it and am thinking of it myself, but no experience yet. Look at the video clip and make a similar unit for under $100? 


http://www.montanajacks.com/index.asp

search quadskidder


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## Rockfarmer (Dec 5, 2008)

awesome post and pics BRMorgan,.. Those dolly's looks like what I was thinking of. I can incorporate that end log leveling system into my ladder guide too. I'll give that a shot. Its a lot to soak in but I'll get it, thanks

Beetle, I used to skid huge rocks around on a car hood upside down, it worked the bomb! I like the idea but I want to keep my logs and lumber clean cause it just kills the chains otherwise, great idea though!


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## irishcountry (Dec 5, 2008)

Great job fun isn't it especially when you sit back and look at the pile you generate!! Good pics thanks irishcountry


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## woodshop (Dec 5, 2008)

Good job, fantastic for your first time. You're hooked... thanks for posting for us.


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## slabmaster (Dec 5, 2008)

This works for me.It's an axle from a old lawn mower.I just chain the log to it and go.


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## Brmorgan (Dec 6, 2008)

Beetlekilled said:


> You might try building one of these out of an old skid plate, with the right dimensions/angles. I've heard of guys doing it and am thinking of it myself, but no experience yet. Look at the video clip and make a similar unit for under $100?
> 
> 
> http://www.montanajacks.com/index.asp
> ...



$100? I was thinking maybe $10, unless old abandoned cars in the woods aren't as plentiful where you live as they are around here!  I've skidded wood behind a snowmobile that way, works like a charm. Those work pretty well without snow where the ground's smooth, such as a backyard or pasture. Throw a couple rocks or stumps in front of them though and they're not ideal - they bounce and slide all around, or worse yet, snag and make you kiss your handlebars. If you can get even just one end of the log on a set of wheels, even something as primitive as the setups that Slabmaster or I use, it reduces the workload on the quad immensely, and then even fairly steep hills are no problem with 4-wheel-drive and good tires. Heck, before I had the quad I skidded some 18"+ logs behind an old Craftsman 18hp lawn tractor using just the one trailer. Mind you, I modified some car tire chains to fit the tractor and it was a humpy-bumpy ride, but it got it done. 

PS Rockfarmer- I don't know if you've seen it yet, but last week I finished scanning the book "Chainsaw Lumbermaking" by Will Malloff into PDF form, so you can grab it directly from *HERE* if you're interested. The related thread is *HERE*. The tips I gave you came straight from that book, and there's tons more good information in there too.


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## redoak (Dec 6, 2008)

Nice work Rockfarmer! 8" x 16" on a 16' span!! You must be storing your harvest of rocks on that beam! 

I use a very simple sledge made from 6" oak logs, basically 6 feet log by about 2 and half feet wide. A simple lap joint and some hefty bolts hold it together. A 12' length of chain attached to the bolts up front provide an even pulling point, and the left over ends of that chain go over the logs to hold them onto the sledge. Position the sledge far enough down the log to get the back end off the ground. A peavey will get it onto the sledge. I've been pulling 20' white pine logs with my tractor no problem, not sure the ATV will have enough traction. The nice thing is you can use chain or cable to yank cleanly to a spot where the pickup can get at it.

A sledge is really simple, works under most conditions, standard implement of pre-tractor farming.

BTW, if you drag through forest duff you get very little mineral soil, especially in the winter. Humus has not effect on a chain.

Good luck!

-redoak


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## stipes (Dec 6, 2008)

*Great pics!! Thanks!!*

That turned out really nice!!!


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## Rockfarmer (Dec 7, 2008)

Redoak, love to see a picture of that sledge  

Stiped thanks, but I'm not as productive as you!!


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## Rockfarmer (Dec 7, 2008)

BrMorgan, you asked how I set up the ladder. Here it is. I screwed wood "nailers" into the ladder rungs every 3 feet. these are attached by self tapping screws and braced against the ladder rail. I used Will's technique this time and put braces on the end and screwed to that. Got the ladder parallel to the heart and then shimmed and screwed every 3 feet. I check with my eye and torpedo to make sure I'm level and flat. This cut here came out as good as I would want, the camera just wont show how flat it was. So there you have it. This time it only took me about 1/2 hour to set up if that. Here a couple more pics from yesterday. I milled 5- 2 x 12 x 12', 2- 2 x 10 x 16', 1- 2 x 4 x 16' and a hauled out in about 5+ hrs, and shot the breeze with my neighbor for a while. Good day all in all. I got an idea how to get that beam out. If I know the pins out of the hinges on my dump trailer and take the bed off I bet I can get the end of that beam up on the trailer and drag it out. It will get all muddy though cause theres 2 mud hole crossings. Will think about it some more :monkey: Its lightly snowing now, going to make everything a little slick, RF


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## olive_oil (Dec 7, 2008)

*Great Accomplishment +++*

Im impressed! seems like you're a "geturdone" kinda fella!
Godspeed to ya & keep us posted


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## Rockfarmer (Dec 8, 2008)

Hey Olive oil thanks for that, I dont know if its a great accomplishment, but at least I'm doing something constructive  So yesterday I milled my 3rd log and it went good but was really a work out. Not sure if I'm just sore from the last 2 days, dull chain, not big enough wedge in my kerf, too many knots in the wood, absoulutley green frozen wood or what but I'm beat.  Taking the day off today to regroup  So heres a couple pics. Yesterday I did notice that I hit a couple bullets in the tree. The first looks like an old maxi-ball 50 cal and the second looked like a 22. The saw chugged right through them but I did give her a good sharpening (by hand). Yesterday I also had a supervisor working with me  It way cold out here today, wind chills in the single digits.


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## stipes (Dec 8, 2008)

*Great Pics!!!*

Looked like a fun day...Glad you posted about the ladder,,that is how I'll get rid of the side to side motion on my next setup..That looked really good...Maybe on down when I get on the really long stuff,,and save up for some unistrut,,but for now,,ladder gonna have to do..
Havent had a chance to adjust the square in the mini mill yet,,but will later this week...
Them are some nice lookin boards!!! Great job!!!


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## slabmaster (Dec 8, 2008)

Those bullets always get my attention too.I like them alot better than those nails though.Good job milling!


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## BobL (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks for posting the pics Rockfarmer. 

I see you're using a plastic tub for toting stuff around. I find them pretty handy as well except they don't seem to be UV stabilized as the Aussie sun makes them really brittle in a couple of months so I need to keep finding new ones.


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## olive_oil (Dec 8, 2008)

Thx for pics & keeping us posted:agree2: 
Yeah after looking at that wood w/all those big knots, the snow on the ground, and, geez a bullet too...you definitely deserve a day off, and your best friend there too!!!
I have yet to run into steel, but I have quite a few large logs with nails in them from a down tree in my backyard that I'll need to cut sooner or later - I think I'll wait 'til I get a little more experience


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## Brmorgan (Dec 8, 2008)

olive_oil said:


> Thx for pics & keeping us posted:agree2:
> Yeah after looking at that wood w/all those big knots, the snow on the ground, and, geez a bullet too...you definitely deserve a day off, and your best friend there too!!!
> I have yet to run into steel, but I have quite a few large logs with nails in them from a down tree in my backyard that I'll need to cut sooner or later - *I think I'll wait 'til I get a little more experience*



Or better yet, a good metal detector! Experience doesn't help you see what's hidden, unfortunately.


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## olive_oil (Dec 9, 2008)

*Thx Brad*



Brmorgan said:


> Or better yet, a good metal detector! Experience doesn't help you see what's hidden, unfortunately.



I never thought about using my metal detector:jawdrop: well now I dont have anymore excuses, so guess I'll have to get on it. 
...running low on wood anyway


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## Rockfarmer (Dec 9, 2008)

*So yesterday*

I spent the day cleaning in the garage. Got a little fire going in the woodstove and getting the area ready for my beam. I took the dump body off my trailer and mounted a 10 x 10 block of dunnage just forward of the axle. I know the axle can take the weight of the beam cause I beefed it up but the tongue is questionable. Obviously I needed the block to raise up the hitch point to get tongue weight. I went out with my floor jack, straps, bar and come-along. The beam was easier then I thought to get up on the block and she came out of the woods slick.  

Now, can I set that beam in place? I know it will shrink as it seasons, but how much? Do you think it will deflect under its own weight. How much will it twist? It was cut out of a decent trunk log with no real compression or bends, its pretty much a straight cut true to the heart. 

First pic is the skid, second is the goods so far.


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## Rockfarmer (Dec 9, 2008)

Bob, I find it actually amazing that I can talk to someone from Australia on a daily basis!  I got stacks of those buckets if you want to come over and grab some


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## BobL (Dec 9, 2008)

Rockfarmer said:


> Bob, I find it actually amazing that I can talk to someone from Australia on a daily basis!  I got stacks of those buckets if you want to come over and grab some



Dang, you got buckets to spare!! I end up having to scavenge them from building site dumpsters around our neighborhood. I even had the students laughing at me at work when they saw the Head of Department (that's me!) scabbing a couple of buckets out of a dumpster.

Yeah although I post a lot on an Aussie woodworkers and milling forum I like this site, I get on well with 'mericans, lived in SD for 2.5 years, love your big beers etc.


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## redoak (Dec 11, 2008)

Rockfarmer,

White pine is a great wood to work with green as the shrinkage is very manageable (there are tables you can look up online). Ther are also tables to check deflection, but I think you said this beam was 8"x16" at 16'? That will not deflect under its own weight... or the weight of a couple cars hanging from it.

I just ran some deflection numbers on this piece of wood. Mind you, you would have to check against horizontal shear, but to deflect this beam by 1/2 inch (about 1/360 of the length) you would need to load it at center with a little more than 9000 lbs. Again, that kind of weight would beg a bunch of other questions... but I think deflection is not the problem here. 

I'll get you a pic of that sledge over the weekend.

-redoak


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## olive_oil (Dec 11, 2008)

Rockfarmer said:


> I spent the day cleaning in the garage. Got a little fire going in the woodstove and getting the area ready for my beam. I took the dump body off my trailer and mounted a 10 x 10 block of dunnage just forward of the axle. I know the axle can take the weight of the beam cause I beefed it up but the tongue is questionable. Obviously I needed the block to raise up the hitch point to get tongue weight. I went out with my floor jack, straps, bar and come-along. The beam was easier then I thought to get up on the block and she came out of the woods slick.
> 
> Now, can I set that beam in place? I know it will shrink as it seasons, but how much? Do you think it will deflect under its own weight. How much will it twist? It was cut out of a decent trunk log with no real compression or bends, its pretty much a straight cut true to the heart.
> 
> First pic is the skid, second is the goods so far.


 You know i'd love to create a calender for you and all the rest of us of this...if ya don't mind, i'll try to keep pics in sequence & I know its alot to ask, but keep a journal when you can that I can ---just something that comes to your mind...if not, thats ok too ---
this may may seem trival to you guys, but...what can I say...well Rockfarmer, the idea you created in your head & daily tasks you're sharing with...us, uuhmm, are really meaningful {ok,Im a girl & thats the only word I can come up with}
Godspeed Rockfarmer & Family!!!


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## stipes (Dec 12, 2008)

*Nice,,,Nice,,NICE!!!!*

Great pics!!! Thanks for posting em .. Really good job!!!Ok,,You got me...I'm gonna have to get my butt out tomorrow and mill some...After them pics,,I cant stand it...LOL!! Gonna try to finish the cant I have left and start on some oak...Gotta feelin this gonna really test the Jred...  
Thanks again for the pics!!


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## irishcountry (Dec 12, 2008)

Great stuff as always I've said it before this site is about all I like about the internet keep the pics coming. Hey BobL for the record if you were back here I would definately buy you a big beer, and I like Aussie beer too!! Cheers everyone have a good weekend and if ya get out milling have fun! irishcountry


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## BobL (Dec 12, 2008)

irishcountry said:


> Great stuff as always I've said it before this site is about all I like about the internet keep the pics coming. Hey BobL for the record if you were back here I would definately buy you a big beer, and I like Aussie beer too!! Cheers everyone have a good weekend and if ya get out milling have fun! irishcountry



Cheers Irish, I agree - definitely a good side of the internet. 

Next time you raise a glass, you have one for me and I'll have one for you!  Same goes for the rest of you blokes!  Could be a lot of beers :biggrinbounce2:


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## irishcountry (Dec 13, 2008)

Thats a deal!! Cheers


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## olive_oil (Dec 20, 2008)

How's it going Rockfarmer? We had a lot a snow out here in California...Im wondering if the weather has down production for you too?

Keep us posted :Eye:


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## Rockfarmer (Dec 23, 2008)

olive_oil said:


> How's it going Rockfarmer? We had a lot a snow out here in California...Im wondering if the weather has down production for you too?
> 
> Keep us posted :Eye:



Hey! I just logged on here from the FD

I lost power on the 12th and still dont have it. I have been doing lots of :chainsawguy: but its very dangerous with the trees all bent over and spring loaded. The ice storm broke 6 of 7 poles on my driveway and because I'm in a rural part of down I'm last priority. We are all fine but living without water and power is getting old  Thank God I have 10 cords of wood and 2 woodstoves  I hope all you guys have a great Christmas and I'll get back online here someday I hope. The power company came yesterday and set poles so now its all new wires, transformers, ect, these guys worked through the last couples storms we got a couple feet on the ground  More ice and then rain expected tomorrow. Before the storm I did put that beam in place, have pics and will upload them when I get back on! Merry Christmas!!!


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## Trever (Dec 23, 2008)

*Thank you*

PS Rockfarmer- I don't know if you've seen it yet, but last week I finished scanning the book "Chainsaw Lumbermaking" by Will Malloff into PDF form, so you can grab it directly from *HERE* if you're interested. The related thread is *HERE*. The tips I gave you came straight from that book, and there's tons more good information in there too.[/QUOTE]

Brad, thank you very much for taking the time to scan this book. I and I know others greatly appreciate it. Have a blessed and Merry Christamas!!


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## Rockfarmer (Jan 11, 2009)

Hey guys I finally got my cable back on, only a month without phone, tv or internet :jawdrop: Comcast sucks, but thats a whole different story,..  

I'll post a couple pics of the storm damage in a day or 2 then I'll get back to


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## dustytools (Jan 11, 2009)

Rockfarmer said:


> Hey guys I finally got my cable back on, only a month without phone, tv or internet :jawdrop: Comcast sucks, but thats a whole different story,..
> 
> I'll post a couple pics of the storm damage in a day or 2 then I'll get back to



Its good to hear from you again Rockfarmer. Im glad everything is going well for you again.


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## Rockfarmer (Jan 12, 2009)

*Ice Storm*

Hey Dusty, thanks for that  

Heres a couple of pics from the storm, 12 days no power, 1 month no internet


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## Rockfarmer (Jan 12, 2009)

I set that beam I made a while back



, the pic didnt come out to great but its in. I also notched the beam and made a couple support brackets so that my overhead trolley can pass underneath it. I fabbed it out of 2 x 2 angle iron, 7018 rod and thru bolted it with 1/2" threaded rod, it should hold. Now to frame the floor,.. I have about 1/2 of the joists I need and everything in the woods is now buried in white,.. I got some work to do


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## TNMIKE (Jan 12, 2009)

*Dont re invent the wheel*

Here is a log arch thread from the past....Ive got all the steel together..when i get my eyesight back and some warmer weather Ill burn it together

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=63535&highlight=log+arch


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