# new laynard



## tree dude (Oct 19, 2006)

good evening!

i am thinking of retiring my old buck strap and making a new lanyard, due to too many run-ins with pine sap.what do you think would be a better or safer lanyard a 12 ft piece of true blue or a 12ft piece of samson tree rope both 1/2 " dia.


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## TreemanFJR (Oct 19, 2006)

I use New England's True Blue as my 1/2'' rigging line. It has taken quite a bit of abuse and still has its soft nature. I do like true blue and I think it would make a good lanyard. One thing to consider is that it might not do really well at "flipping up" the tree since it is quite soft. I use an 18' chunk of XTC fire for my lanyard and it is much stiffer then the true blue. 

Which samson rope are you talking about?


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## Dadatwins (Oct 19, 2006)

They would both make good choices, minimum break strength for climbing line is 5400 lbs so both your choices should work. Only suggestion is to make your laynard out of a different color rope than your climbing line to prevent confusion while working. Be careful.


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## rahtreelimbs (Oct 19, 2006)

Might I suggest a good 16 strand ( one of the New England Safety Blue Ropes comes to mind). The only reason is that 16 strand is normally spliced at the snap end. A splice really cleans up the attachment point over a bulky knot.


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## tree dude (Oct 19, 2006)

*rope*

samson tree master 3 strand.


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## Dadatwins (Oct 19, 2006)

tree dude said:


> samson tree master 3 strand.



Simple to splice and it will flip well, what type adjuster are you planning to use? True blue would work but forgot it was 12 strand and not ?? splicable, knots really bulk up a laynard.


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## TreemanFJR (Oct 19, 2006)

Dadatwins said:


> Simple to splice and it will flip well, what type adjuster are you planning to use? True blue would work but forgot it was 12 strand and not ?? splicable, knots really bulk up a laynard.




I really thought knots would bulk up a lanyard also, but I have been impressed so far. I had a spliced lanyard with a rope snap and it worked great. Just recently I made up my own with a triple fisherman tied to a rope snap. I was skeptical because I was used to the spliced end, but so far it hasn't been too bulky and I kind of like the extra weight to toss it around. Who knows though I might make up another one with a spliced end in the future. 

The Samson 3 strand will work well for a lanyard. Nice and stiff :biggrinbounce2:


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## (WLL) (Nov 24, 2006)

maxi-flip with steel core is great but for pruning i use 9ft spliced 11millblaze wtth distel hitch n pully on small pear biner(mighty mouse) this is great for adjustment with a load and works with one hand. i use 3x longer than me leg so im not stepping on wile working. always be sure 2 use stopper knot for safty on end 2 prevent rope end from passing through pully n hitch i also use same setup for climbing line and find this setup is much more climber friendly n faster just remember speed comes with knowage and is better 2 think twice and move once


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Nov 25, 2006)

If you do a lot of Pines, consider a wire core with a Gibbs ascender. The wire core rope is very stiff for flipping, and the Gibbs has no problems with sap.
You could have a second lanyard for trimming hardwoods. Mine is just some 11mm climbing line like Blaze, Fly, or Velocity, with a rope snap tied on one end and a VT hitch and fair lead on the other. Try a nice long one, the length comes in handy sometimes.


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## treesurgeon (Nov 25, 2006)

i just bought a lanyard from Sherill. its the one with the double snap hooks. its the slickest line i have ever had on a lanyard. so far it works great, but i dont use it on pines that much. i go through two a year and it seems like this might last longer because of the rope used.


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## woodchux (Nov 26, 2006)

Steel core is the best way to go. Much safer, better flipping and worth the money IMO


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## JonnyHart (Nov 26, 2006)

Spliced is nice, but a rope snap tied to a piece of climbing line and any adjuster will be a huge improvement over your buckstrap.


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## GASoline71 (Dec 1, 2006)

Also if you get a Gibbs Ascender to use on a flip line... make sure you replace the removeable "pin" with a bolt and a locknut!

I use one on a 5/8" wire core flip line... courtesy of JonnyHart! Thanks Jon!:rockn: 

Gary


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## treesurgeon (Dec 4, 2006)

treesurgeon said:


> i just bought a lanyard from Sherill. its the one with the double snap hooks. its the slickest line i have ever had on a lanyard. so far it works great, but i dont use it on pines that much. i go through two a year and it seems like this might last longer because of the rope used.


works like crap once it gets muddy.
time to wash it.


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## Streyken (Dec 5, 2006)

I use a 5/8 combination rope bought from a trawl net manufacturer. It lasts forever, well usually a good year, and you'd really have to try and put your saw through it. It is very stiff compared to the other lanyards I've seen and is great on big trees.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 6, 2006)

Thanks for posting those pictures. I would love to try that out on an 11 mm diameter. I wonder if the trawler suppliers make that?

Our Arborist wirecores are a single wire core of wire rope wrapped in a rope sheath. Yours has 7 individual cores of cable, each wrapped in rope and in a traditonal left lay.

I like it. It seems if you touched it with a saw, you might nail the rope fibers on one or two of the cables, and it would be forgiving toward repair, Whereas with our traditional wirecores, you hit the sheath, and that's the only one you've got- one cable, one sheath.

I have never seen CoastArborist line before, but I imagine it would work _great_ as a flipline.


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## osb_mail (Dec 6, 2006)

*reply*

I climb on braided and use 3 strand for flip lines you can really see the difference .It helps me a lot.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 6, 2006)

I can see where the 3-strands would just be stiffer than the braided brothers. My last two fliplines were Velocity and just this last week, Blaze. The Blaze is limp like a fish noodle. I've traditionally used wirecores and enjoy the better flipping control and feeling of absolute strength and integrity (and, yea, the weight). 

The Velocity was great, integrated with the micrograb, it was delicious, but the eye terminations were too long and the length was about 10 cm too long, but otherwise it was impressive for an 11 mm rope flipline.

The Blaze, I put tube webbing on the eyes, made it exact to length, made the terminal biner captive. Awesome performance, except for that it's limp as a whistle. It's perfect, but I really, really prefer something with some stiffness, like OSB's 3-strand. I'm married to 11 mm from here on out. 13 mm fliplines are a thing of the past. Always being tied in twice while making any cut is standard, dedicated climbing behavior ( I _still_ prefer a wirecore)

Streyken, your flipline is an excellent entry into the *Arboristsite School of Lanyardogenics*.

Copy and paste _this_: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=535845#post535845

and send it to the makers of your fully excellent wirecore trawler line. 

That'll pop them right here to this post


Then we can talk about creating the next generation wirecore flipline.

This is so much fun, molding other people's great ideas into a product that would work for Arborists.


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## Streyken (Dec 6, 2006)

Tree Machine, it does work great as a flipline, where I am there's a lot of large hemlock and fir removal. And it is quite resistant to the saw teeth, the chain really has to be moving to make it through one or two wires, which happens very seldom if you're careful, but if it does out come the clippers. 

They don't have that type of wire in 11mm, I've thought about going that route. They do however, carry 3/4 and 1 in. 

In the past I used 2 wire clamps to attach the clip, but the compression fitting is much nicer, just watch that sucker when you're swinging it around a tree. I just bring the clips in and they make them up at the net place. Just don't tell them you're using them as a life line, though they're heavier than almost everything I've seen, they're not safety approved and cannot be sold as safty gear.


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## JonnyHart (Dec 6, 2006)

What do you use to adjust it?


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## Streyken (Dec 6, 2006)

I use a steel plate with 3 holes in it (old school); one hole is used to attach it to my belt with a quick link, the lanyard is then fed through the other two for adjustment. I’ll post a pic when I get a chance. One guy I work with uses a rope grip something like the one below. A carabiner attaches it to his belt. I tried it, but didn’t like it.


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## DDM (Dec 6, 2006)

Streyken? Do these people have a web site? How much does it cost? I want some!


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## begleytree (Dec 6, 2006)

Me too! I'd throw a snap on one end, and run through a swabish (with 3/8 sta set) on the other for adjustment! great for blocking down.
we need a link!!!
-Ralph


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## Streyken (Dec 6, 2006)

I get the rope from these guys: http://www.cantrawl.com/gear-hardware.html

It took me forever to find them after my previous rope supplier stopped carrying it. You could also look into playground equipment suppiers, I think the rope they use on the climbing nets is the same stuff (91 strands total - 13 groups of 7 strands). It's called combination rope, I didn't know that at the time and it took over 20 phone calls and description until one guy knew what I was talking about, then he said they didn't have it! But he pointed me in the right direction.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 6, 2006)

THANK YOU, Dude! We so very much appreciate that!

Streyken is out climbing on gear that no one else is climbing on. You're like a test pilot,


you're like,



Chuck Jaegermeister


Remember, that Top Gun pilot who cooked up this wicked hazelnut liquer??? 



Jaegermeister is to pilotdom as Streyken is to the 12 people reading this thread.


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## Streyken (Dec 6, 2006)

Actually, this isn't my idea. I've been using this for 18 years. The guys who trained me got it from someone else as well. The wire rope that we use has changed over the years, but the concept remains the same.

I always keep double lanyards on, so easy to change stems, etc. These are about 6 months old (I only climb 3 days a week).


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## Tree Machine (Dec 7, 2006)

*Welcome to Arboristsite*

Streyken, first, Welcome to Arboristsite. Second.... you coming on here and surfacing with this stuff, it's like the discovery of a lost tribe of tree men. You're kinda like a whole new treeguy specie, yet, we're still kin. Are there more like you? Take me to your leader...... 


Let me bring offering of how to handle a macrograb, the adjuster you described as unimpressive.









Except that with this particular adjuster (Petzl Micrograb), the difference between 11 mm and 13 mm is huge. If you go up to a larger Macrograb or a Gibbs ascender, then you lose the smallness, that ideal 'palm' size hand feel. The IDEAL, and I know this because of my last three rope fliplines, Vector, Velocity and Blaze, all 11 mm have performed excellent with the micrograb. It's precision control that brings joy, but these 11 mm lines lack stiffness and general uncuttability. We need an 11 mm wirecore combination rope flipline. Enter Netline.

I can see where the micrograb would be undersize for your wirecore (multicore?) We need *11 mm* Netline. We could usher in a new era of high-end flipline if it's tensile is up to par (and it is). We just need to politely ask the netline manufacturer 'what can be done'?

Stryken, you've brought us a most excellent gift.


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## Streyken (Dec 7, 2006)

Thanks for the welcome guys.

Like I said, the guy I work with loves the ropegrab. I think the one he uses is too small, the lanyard is 16mm and it doesn't leave much room. For me it's also my way of doing things, one example, when blocking I'm use to feeding line out one handed while leaning back, if I tried that with the grab, I'm afraid it would release my lanyard so quickly I'd be on the ground. This may not be the case, but it's my main apprehension.

Habit can be a good and bad thing. I always put my gear on in the same order (something I learned while commercial diving), if you're missing something you'll know it. A lot of guys climb with their saw attached to a hook and use it free hand in the tree, mine is always tied with a 3' piece of rope to my right side. I was trimming a tree without gear on one day, just went up on a ladder and climbed in (retopping a low hedge). I ended up throwing my saw out of the tree to quickly grab a top! I didn't even think about it, just habit.

I like trying new stuff though, thought about starting a new thread on that, as we all do things different according to the types of cutting conditions, which vary immensely looking at the photos you guys post. Learned spurless only a few years ago.


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## gumneck (Dec 7, 2006)

That lanyard is all well and cool but in your avatar, Is that you and is that eyepatch for real? If so, now that's awesome!


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## Streyken (Dec 7, 2006)

Yup, that's me. Eye patch isn't real, but it could be. I've been cut just above and just below both eyes a number of times (wayne chipper thowbacks, breaking chain, breaking rope, breaking branches, etc.) One of my students made that for me a few years back when I was teaching computer programming. Decided to get out of the trees for a few years, but it sucks you back in.


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## MrRecurve (Dec 11, 2006)

Here's mine, its just 4 metres (13 feet) of blaze with a vt and steel crush clip. 
The vt is great for one handed adjustment and also for letting off under load. I like the steel crush clip as it has more weight to throw about than an alloy one. Sometimes they can take a bit of a beating in the tree.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 11, 2006)

Fabbilous photos. My current flipline is Blaze



I'll bet the VT would work well on 11 mm Streyken Cord.


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## Magnum783 (Dec 11, 2006)

MrRecurve said:


> Here's mine, its just 4 metres (13 feet) of blaze with a vt and steel crush clip.
> The vt is great for one handed adjustment and also for letting off under load. I like the steel crush clip as it has more weight to throw about than an alloy one. Sometimes they can take a bit of a beating in the tree.
> 
> Where do you get the blaze? Does the Micro make it work better? What are you using for the VT? Could you use a prusik instead of the VT I love prusiks or a blakes. I use a wirecore for flipping but looking for something for work positioning. Wire core thends to be to expensive for big lengths. Thanks for your pics they really helped make sense.
> Jared


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## MrRecurve (Dec 12, 2006)

Hey Jared, just use any 11mm climbing line available at your arb supply. I picked Blaze as I havnt used it for anything else, I like to use different colours. 

The vt is just prussick cord, and you cant really use it without the pulley, but yeah it is as smooth as the proverbial. You can use a prussick, just tie it really short and back it up with the micropulley so you can advance it with one hand.

I really only do amenity work, so I dont have the need for wirecore. The long length of my flipline really helps a lot in limbwalks and general positioning ,plus I can take it off my side d and clip onto the bridge of my glide to use as a short redirect, or just to hang off while advancing my head rope (i dont like to hang from my flipline if it is attached at the sides, uncomfortable). 

Also, the 11mm isnt that hard to flip up, so dont let that put you off.


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## Magnum783 (Dec 12, 2006)

What type pully is that?


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## MrRecurve (Dec 12, 2006)

That pulley is just a CMI swing cheek.


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## (WLL) (Dec 22, 2006)

*here is mine*

:hmm3grin2orange: 9ft blaze with distle hitch lts light wait 4 prunning.
12ft maxi-flip very nice use 4 removals has lots of flex that other wire core lanyards dont offer and is also spliced not crimped.


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## Streyken (Dec 23, 2006)

Magnum783 said:


> Wire core thends to be to expensive for big lengths.
> Jared



How much is standard wire core rope? I pay about $2.00 CDN a foot. With rope, safety clip and aluminum-loc (crimp), it runs me just under $40.00 CDN per 12' lanyard.


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## Magnum783 (Dec 23, 2006)

How does the CDN compare to the US dollar.


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## ray benson (Dec 23, 2006)

It varies daily. But today, 12-23-06 it is 
1 CAD = 0.863148 USD, 1 USD = 1.15855 CAD


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## Magnum783 (Dec 23, 2006)

http://www.wesspur.com/Lanyards/new-england-flipline.html
This is what I use that and a petzel micrograb and a twisted clevis.
Jared
I love it:greenchainsaw: opcorn:


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## (WLL) (Dec 30, 2006)

*new lanyard born on 12/30/06*

just made this 2night. it took about 1hr and i should get about 1-2yrs out of it. it is made with 11m blaze 1 presto alum safety snap 1 climbrite swing cheek pulley 1 mighty mouse krab 1 hank of bail out cord.


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## beowulf343 (Dec 30, 2006)

WLL, how long?

Not bad. How do you like that mighty mouse? Been thinking of getting one for that same purpose but have heard alot of negative about them-mainly too small and too hard to open. Of course, in this situation, that is no big deal.


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## (WLL) (Dec 30, 2006)

beowulf343 said:


> WLL, how long?
> 
> Not bad. How do you like that mighty mouse? Been thinking of getting one for that same purpose but have heard alot of negative about them-mainly too small and too hard to open. Of course, in this situation, that is no big deal.



14ft. i really like the mighty mouse 4 this application because its pear shaped, small and hard 2 open. i can open with 1 hand by banging on hip or something. i think the design is very safe and strong with 25kn. it serves its purpose well:rockn: i think its design has ben made to help prevent loading the gate
my old 1 is 9ft and just not long enough 4 the big pigs my new boss finds


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## Mr_Brushcutter (Dec 31, 2006)

My lanyard is 5M of Yale XTC+ which is conected to a ISC Mongoose karabiners. As for the adjuster i use a 4/3 VT with a micro pully, that is on Beal 10mm double braid.

Lanyard two is 5m of Arbormaster on ISC springlock biners. With a I-Cicle with micropully again on a ISC spring lock biner. The I-Cicle is made using 8mm Beeline which has been spliced eye to eye.

My steel core is a 12' Yale flipline with a 8mm beeline 4/3 VT with micro pully.


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