# Stihl 180 C-B is Junk!!



## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

I bought this brand new and used for 1.5 hrs. It started smoking while I was cutting a 4-5 inch logs. It was smoking from the internal. They told me I melted it by using the safety break too much and reving it at high RPM's. I told them I did not do that and followed the directions in the manual. I have watched tons of videos on Youtube and read a lot of blogs and can't see what I was doing different to burn out a brand new machine when I just started using it. The $200 dollar saw I was told will cost me $250 to fix.


They won't give me money back or do anything for the warranty. Ace instead said I now owe $50 dollars for him looking at it. Stihl's customer service is pathetic (talked to the Stihl warranty guy in CO) and this saw is worse. Maybe Stihls heavy duty machines are better and I believe they are, but not this little thing. After finding other people think it is junk as well, I'm shopping for a Dolmar or Echo.

I've never felt so ripped off right off the bat from anything in my life, to say I am frustrated and have lost sleep over these guys is an understatement. 

Are Dolmar or Echo better built and more heavy duty, can you really never use the chain brake without it being said you void the warranty?


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## HittinSteel (May 24, 2012)

Call your local stihl dealer rep or file a complaint with your state's attorney general.


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## Roll Tide (May 24, 2012)

unless they are just a horrible dealer i believe there is more to this story then told. but thats just my thoughts.


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## Roll Tide (May 24, 2012)

even when customers bring in newer units they have cooked due to running with dull chains or bad mixture stihl has always willing to atleast help with the cost if not pay for all the parts, which i deal with Mid Atlantic Stihl.


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## Fish (May 24, 2012)

Describe how you use the chain brake.


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## timmcat (May 24, 2012)

Cut your losses and go buy an Echo, 5 yr warranty and awesome customer service, If it were an echo you'd probably be cutting with a new saw already.


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## HittinSteel (May 24, 2012)

Someone is looking for a 180 project saw in the trading post.


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## In The Weeds (May 24, 2012)

Yeah, sounds like a little more information is needed from the OP to have any kind of opinion on this one. Are you saying you got all your information on running the saw from blogs and youtube? Where did you buy it from? Like someone else mentioned, how are you using the chain brake if that is even what you are talking about? What actually got cooked?
I would not assume that Stihl is going to treat every customer right though, it totally depends on the dealer.
If the saw costs $200 and its really gonna cost $250 to fix and you think its junk then yeah sounds like you should cut your losses for sure. Try an Echo?


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## blsnelling (May 24, 2012)

Fish said:


> Describe how you use the chain brake.



Bada bing.


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## showrguy (May 24, 2012)

how bowt some pictures of the "burnt up" area of the saw ??

ain't no brand of saw gonna not burn up if yer running it with the brake on !!!!!!!!!!


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## H 2 H (May 24, 2012)

HMM; sounds fishy to me

Just last Saturday I talk with a lawn service guy that just bought two of them for his crew members and these were replacement saw's 

They last his crew guy's about a year and a half of every day use

They still uses the the older saw's but for the price of those saw's; they are thru away saw's


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## SawTroll (May 24, 2012)

Yes, it is junk, and weak - but that doesn't explain why this happened. 
Engaging the brake repeatedly at higher rpm than idling never is good - and keep the chains sharp, to keep the heat down!


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

*Not sure there is more to it*

@Rolltide- that was how the Stihl warranty sounded, said my story had a hole in it because I said moved the start lever from 0 to I, put my foot in the guard and pulled and it started. Which is all I recall doing. When it started it was on low rev's so I know it wasn't in the hot-start position and I know it wasn't reving against the chain brake. But if I was unclear about this before-- sorry, they said I ran the RPM's up with the chain brake "ON" causing it to melt to something internally in the engine. I don't totally understand, but there are melted parts inside around the engine, I am assuming what ever holds the chain brake around the clutch or something. I had to leave for work yesterday and can't leave now for two weeks to go in and talk to the guy in person.

What I used the chain brake for was asked. I used it when walking around from one set of branches in my yard to a different set that was across the lawn, I used when setting the saw on the ground while my dogs were around and I repositioned some logs for cutting, and then I used off and on a few times while investigating the smoke trying to see what the deal was. When it was (assumed flooded) after I took a break to let it cool down, I did the hot start procedure as per the manual and it worked to get it running, but still had smoke coming out of the internal. Doing the hotstart requires you to use the brake in the "ON" position to start it. What I was referring to was that both videos and blogs for Stihls and other manufactures recommend using the break when initially starting your saw, which I did.

I bought this saw from an Ace hardware store in Bismarck. They said they can't refund me because Stihl doesn't believe it was a "manufacturing defect". The Stihl gent had the Ace guy make a few cuts to make sure it was sharp and the Ace guy confirmed, "yep, it's a brand new saw and still sharp". The Ace guy said he thinks the brake could get bumped and accidentally lock while cutting and burn up. I told him I don't recall it ever accidentally locking up on me. The Stihl warranty guy gave me the impression that there is basically no way the product can melt anything on it's own and there is no manufacturing defect. It was user error and the Ace guy told me to buy a new one. I said why would I buy a new one that is this fragile? I broke it without even understanding what I did wrong. 
If they gave me my money back I would consider buying a mid-range model with more metal and I would never ever touch the stupid hand brake again. I guess being a guy of principles, I don't want a Stihl because of the way the warranty guy was, and I really don't want to buy from Ace because they are all too happy to charge me for all for every ounce of time they have had my saw, and won't just do good customer service. And no to the one post that said that Stihl won't offer anything? They offered 0.5 Hours of labor "because he is just being generous and Im lucky". That should at least neutralize the cost of Ace looking at it right now.


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

*pic*



showrguy said:


> how bowt some pictures of the "burnt up" area of the saw ??
> 
> ain't no brand of saw gonna not burn up if yer running it with the brake on !!!!!!!!!!





Pictures are a great idea, I wish I would have thought of that before I left for work. Now I can't get one for a few weeks.


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## blsnelling (May 24, 2012)

Could you tell a difference between when the brake was engaged and when it wasn't?


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## showrguy (May 24, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> Pictures are a great idea, I wish I would have thought of that before I left for work. Now I can't get one for a few weeks.



post some when ya can.........
i'm warnin ya though, if it was your fault, these boys will let ya know it. and your gonna have to appoligize in public.......... then they'll all help you fix it, for cheap/free !!

now, if you woulda came here talkin about the chi-com connecting rod in them saws, now that's a whole nother story !!!!!

did i really go there ?????
it was entertaining though, to say the least.....


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Could you tell a difference between when the brake was engaged and when it wasn't?





I think so "ON" the chain didn't spin at all, "OFF" the chain was turning no problem......but there was always still smoke coming out. 

But you are right @Showrguy, I am in over my head, this site obviously is where the professionals hang out. I need the slightly handicapped alternative site :biggrin:


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## barneyrb (May 24, 2012)

Yep I agree the 180 is junk. Plastic smokes for no good reason and rods bend way too easy.....


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## zogger (May 24, 2012)

Branches..you said you were cutting branches. Did you suck up any small branches and they got stuck inside the clutch cover? As in, not a clean cut, but they sort of got cut then the chain pulled them in?


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## SawTroll (May 24, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> I think so "ON" the chain didn't spin at all, "OFF" the chain was turning no problem......but there was always still smoke coming out.
> 
> But you are right @Showrguy, I am in over my head, this site obviously is where the professionals hang out. I need the slightly handicapped alternative site :biggrin:



Was the chain easy to pull around the bar before you used the saw?

Btw, most members here are not professionals, and pros often doesn't know more than the rest of us - quite often it is the other way around, as the saws are "just tools" to them.....


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## In The Weeds (May 24, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Was the chain easy to pull around the bar before you used the saw?
> 
> Btw, most members here are not professionals, and pros often doesn't know more than the rest of us - quite often it is the other way around, as the saws are "just tools" to them.....



Watch out troll, you are dangerously close to "tooting your own horn". :msp_tongue:


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## Gologit (May 24, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Was the chain easy to pull around the bar before you used the saw?
> 
> Btw, most members here are not professionals, and pros often doesn't know more than the rest of us - quite often it is the other way around, as the saws are "just tools" to them.....



Well said.


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## fearofpavement (May 24, 2012)

This sounds like a case of operator error but don't distress too much because most likely you can fix it with parts scrounged from those on this site for a nominal amount. I don't think it is a brand issue. I have a Stihl 018 and it has cut tons of wood (literally). Until the photos arrive, it will be hard to do the forensics on it. I am pretty sure if it was an Echo, the warranty would have the same result. There's a lot of small print in the warranties. It is of course possible that there is a defective part that caused the damage but it sounds like either the clutch was slipping (friction shoes inside the metal clutch housing) or the brake band was binding (metal band that grips the outside of the metal clutch housing)
The mistake that was made was continuing to run the saw after the first sight of smoke. Apparently you weren't born with the high amount of saw knowledge that many on this site came out of the womb with. You like me and a few others have to learn these things and some of us do it the hard way.

The chain saw, a tool demanding a high degree of respect due to its ability to cause great bodily harm, is not all that complicated. With help from this site, you will learn a lot and have a much better understanding of how the beast works. The technology has advanced a lot but the basics are still the same from 50 years ago.

Anyway, many saws nowadays, (including expensive commercial grade saws) have a lot of plastic parts and the heat generated from the clutch area can transfer from the clutch to the plastic. That is what happened to yours. ie, the melting was a result of the problem, not the problem itself. You'll get it sorted out and be cutting wood with that saw in the near future.


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## Chris J. (May 24, 2012)

fearofpavement said:


> ...
> 
> The mistake that was made was continuing to run the saw after the first sight of smoke. Apparently you weren't born with the high amount of saw knowledge that many on this site came out of the womb with. You like me and a few others have to learn these things and some of us do it the hard way.
> 
> ...




I'd sure like to know which AS members were "...born with the high amount of saw knowledge...," I certainly wasn't .


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 24, 2012)

Sorry to hear of your troubles! Pics will tell the story. Like others said, "Sounds a bit fishy".

Oh.....FYI this isn't fb and the @ will not tag/notify. I do wish it did at times.


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## Fish (May 24, 2012)

Well one question to ask......

When the saw was at idle, did the chain still turn? If it was, and you used the chain brake to keep the chain from turning, then that may be what happened.

After a saw is warm , you should be able to set it on the ground, with no chain brake, and it will idle nice until it is out of fuel. When it starts running out of fuel, the saw will speed up, then die. That is how a good running saw behaves. If you bought it new, and it didn't run this way, and you had to use the chain brake to keep the chain from turning, then that would cause some serious heat if you set it down, and gives
you some better ground to stand on in your complaint.

Please, keep adding info, we will help you if we can. We just need to focus a bit, maybe.


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## o8f150 (May 24, 2012)

i have built and run several of those saws and never burnt one up,, personally i think it was running way to lean to begin with and/or the chain brake was hanging up a bit,, i have throttle these saws wide open and hit the chain brake to make sure it was ok and it would stop the chain cold,, all this is just my opinion


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## splitpost (May 24, 2012)

Fish said:


> Well one question to ask......
> 
> When the saw was at idle, did the chain still turn? If it was, and you used the chain brake to keep the chain from turning, then that may be what happened.
> 
> ...



:agree2:


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## Roll Tide (May 24, 2012)

At the first sign of any smoke I would have stopped and brought it back to your dealer . Under no conditions is it normal to have smoke like that .. That was your biggest mistake . coming on here and trashing a saw for your mistakes was your second mistake. Who says it wasn't your fault And the saw was the victim ? :msp_confused:


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## McCulloch1-52 (May 24, 2012)

The only I can think of is the brake was not adjusted, on the stihl chainsaw I use they are on or off when they on it snaps in chain locks up will not move at all even at full throttle, Jonsered is a other good brand.


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## rupedoggy (May 24, 2012)

I think the clutch got hot, not the chain brake. When we see the pictures, if the clutch drum is not blue, I will admit I was wrong. Mike


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## Graham99 (May 24, 2012)

Dumb question from 10,000km away......

Did the shop give you any instruction on how to use the saw before you took it home. If you have not used a petrol chainsaw before, or it is a machine you have never experienced before then they should do this with you.

The other side of the coin........

During the sales process did you outline to the shop your experience with chainsaws. 

Sending you home with the saw and the manual seems kinda dumb to me, and who reads the manual anyway :biggrin:

Graham


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## SawTroll (May 24, 2012)

o8f150 said:


> i have built and run several of those saws and never burnt one up,, personally i think it was running way to lean to begin with and/or the chain brake was hanging up a bit,, i have throttle these saws wide open and hit the chain brake to make sure it was ok and it would stop the chain cold,, all this is just my opinion



Chain brake band "hanging" on the drum, or a waay to tight chain, was what I was thinking of when posting this; 



SawTroll said:


> Was the chain easy to pull around the bar before you used the saw?
> 
> .....


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## axlr8 (May 24, 2012)

i kinda agree on the 'fish stench'...... no pics for a while? and smoke? well i hope it wasnt exhaust smoke.....:hmm3grin2orange:....... BUT in all seriousness, i have talked to my dealer a BUNCH about this saw, and the only problems they have is sometimes people throw chains. because of the quick tensioner. Usually they dont get wrecked, Maybe a new chain and bar for the seriously broken ones, but other than that.....i see no problems. I need pics to believe... sorry! also, get us pics of what your cutting.


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Chain brake band "hanging" on the drum, or a waay to tight chain, was what I was thinking of when posting this;



It was pretty tight, but not impossible to move by hand. I know that isn't very specific.


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

rupedoggy said:


> I think the clutch got hot, not the chain brake. When we see the pictures, if the clutch drum is not blue, I will admit I was wrong. Mike



I believe it was blue and actually had a little bit of all the rainbow spectrum.


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## axlr8 (May 24, 2012)

i like a chain that i can roll with a little resistance. Sounds like someone CRANKED it tight..... i usually tighten them so when i pull down on the bottom of the chain (middle of bar) it will come no more then a half inch off the guide rail. Have you owned a saw before? let alone had someone teach you to use it???


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Sorry to hear of your troubles! Pics will tell the story. Like others said, "Sounds a bit fishy".
> 
> Oh.....FYI this isn't fb and the @ will not tag/notify. I do wish it did at times.



Didn't know facebook tagged people with the @ symbol. Just wanted people to know I was addressing something they said without having to make a bunch of new posts quoting them


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

Graham99 said:


> Dumb question from 10,000km away......
> 
> Did the shop give you any instruction on how to use the saw before you took it home. If you have not used a petrol chainsaw before, or it is a machine you have never experienced before then they should do this with you.
> 
> ...



Nope, not much instruction, this is very different the the Stihl I grew up using. My dads doesn't have a chain break and weighs like what feels like 30 lbs. Its old school and much hardier then this. 

When I worked for the city park system, I only used their saws (which were Stihls) about a half dozen times. Not sure what the models were, but they were bigger and full metal. Never had an issue and didn't burn anything up with theirs.

Used a friend Poulan a couple of times with no problems, but other then that pretty limited experience, especially no experience with the mini boss family. I definitely could have been schooled before hand!


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## In The Weeds (May 24, 2012)

rolltide said:


> At the first sign of any smoke I would have stopped and brought it back to your dealer . Under no conditions is it normal to have smoke like that .. That was your biggest mistake . coming on here and trashing a saw for your mistakes was your second mistake. Who says it wasn't your fault And the saw was the victim ? :msp_confused:



Meh, he was venting, so sue him, its just an inanimate object you won't hurt its feelings lol. He's the one whos going to have to pay for his mistake so piling more sh## on him isnt going to help anything.oke:


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

axlr8 said:


> i like a chain that i can roll with a little resistance. Sounds like someone CRANKED it tight..... i usually tighten them so when i pull down on the bottom of the chain (middle of bar) it will come no more then a half inch off the guide rail. Have you owned a saw before? let alone had someone teach you to use it???



It didn't pull down even past 1/4 inch


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## MtnHermit (May 24, 2012)

axlr8 said:


> i like a chain that i can roll with a little resistance. Sounds like someone CRANKED it tight..... i usually tighten them so when i pull down on the bottom of the chain (middle of bar) it will come no more then a half inch off the guide rail. Have you owned a saw before? let alone had someone teach you to use it???


In my Husky manual it said as tight as possible and still be able to move the chain by hand. I've been doing it that way for the last couple of years. No problems unless I let the oil tank run dry, which is embarrassing.


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

rolltide said:


> At the first sign of any smoke I would have stopped and brought it back to your dealer . Under no conditions is it normal to have smoke like that .. That was your biggest mistake . coming on here and trashing a saw for your mistakes was your second mistake. Who says it wasn't your fault And the saw was the victim ? :msp_confused:



Brand new saw...1.5 hr use and started smoking. DID STOP right away and thought I might just be smoking some hot chain oil on the clutch or something of that nature. Started it, confirmed smoke was coming from internal and took it to the dealer. Maybe it was my mistake, I've used other Stihls in the past, grew with my dads old Stihl (510 from at least the 70's) that doesn't have a chain break because it is older then that and 100% metal....NO PLASTIC or "polymer" according to Stihl. If you were in my shoes and this was your first experience with a 180 C, you would wonder what this world is coming to when the sell cheap crap and tell you that you can't use the chain brake in excess.....WHICH I WASN"T IN THE FIRST PLACE. But believe me, I knew there would be plenty of people with hard-on's for Stihl,and that it is understandable. I just with another chance would NEVER buy the 180C-B. The old 510 I believe in Stihl, the new 180 C-B I don't.


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## Fish (May 24, 2012)

So at idle, the chain would stop????

Please respond to this one at least.


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## a. palmer jr. (May 24, 2012)

I don't like the chains to be tight at all on my saws. I like to be able to pull them on the bar with little resistance but not so loose that the saw throws them off.


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

Fish said:


> So at idle, the chain would stop????
> 
> Please respond to this one at least.



Yes sir. Completely dead stop with no chain brake on, sorry, I thought I had responded to this but I guess I missed it. I only had the chain brake on with it sitting on the ground being a little extra cautious, not because the chain wouldn't stop spinning with out it.


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

Here was what I used back home growing up. It is a bit different then my new one. My brother is a very abusive person on stuff and this thing survived him. But I hope to get some pics as soon as possible. I might have to have my wife go pick it up and take pics just because I can't wait to see what all you helpful gents think. 


View attachment 239334


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## Fish (May 24, 2012)

Well, that doesn't help your case at all........

Where do you live at?


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

Fish said:


> Well, that doesn't help your case at all........
> 
> Where do you live at?



haha...I figured not. Bismarck. I figured I have no case, just in aw more then anything at this point.


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## Fish (May 24, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> Here was what I used back home growing up. It is a bit different then my new one. My brother is a very abusive person on stuff and this thing survived him. But I hope to get some pics as soon as possible. I might have to have my wife go pick it up and take pics just because I can't wait to see what all you helpful gents think.
> 
> 
> View attachment 239334



Hell, that saw will still be running 10 years after Armaggeddon!!!!!

Yes put up some pics, if the crankcase is the same as the MS170, I can hook you up pretty cheap....


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## Fish (May 24, 2012)

Lately the search function has been pulling up some real old sins I have already been absolved/forgiven for....

Seriously, it is pretty thorough.....


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## CTYank (May 24, 2012)

FreeFlowin,
Too bad you didn't research stihl 180 here, before buying; then that wouldn't have happened.
As a counter-example, I bought a Jenn Feng ("McCulloch") 35 cc for $115 for a backup 6 yrs ago, and have worked it hard since. Became my go-to saw for anything it could reach through; still is. Never sent me smoke-signals yet- behaves like new. True, I did have to seal around air-filter a bit.
Never, I say never, let yourself be awed by a brand-name. Especially not on a small stihl saw.
Besides small Echo, you might do well to look at small Tanaka (on special, Hitachi family) and Efco (Italy) saws on Bailey's site. My bet is that you'll do enormously better than with stihl. He**, you'd do much better with a WildThing! (Totally serious about that.)

Please explain what you mean about smoking "from internal." Meaning, precisely where was it coming from, how much, and what did it smell like? It'd also help to see the list of parts your dealer asserts would be needed.


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## Applehead (May 24, 2012)

Seems to me the like " the ace helpful hardware man" isn't very helpful at all , whether it was your fault or a saw defect the dealer still sounds like a real ass..surely he could be more tactful and professional than what you describe.

As somebody else has mentioned ,contact manufacturer directly.


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## Roll Tide (May 24, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> Brand new saw...1.5 hr use and started smoking. DID STOP right away and thought I might just be smoking some hot chain oil on the clutch or something of that nature. Started it, confirmed smoke was coming from internal and took it to the dealer. Maybe it was my mistake, I've used other Stihls in the past, grew with my dads old Stihl (510 from at least the 70's) that doesn't have a chain break because it is older then that and 100% metal....NO PLASTIC or "polymer" according to Stihl. If you were in my shoes and this was your first experience with a 180 C, you would wonder what this world is coming to when the sell cheap crap and tell you that you can't use the chain brake in excess.....WHICH I WASN"T IN THE FIRST PLACE. But believe me, I knew there would be plenty of people with hard-on's for Stihl,and that it is understandable. I just with another chance would NEVER buy the 180C-B. The old 510 I believe in Stihl, the new 180 C-B I don't.


 oh yeah such a hard on lol... I am a tech for stihl so people come in saying the same old "this saw is a piece of crap " 99% of the time it's user error . Just saying ask for advice don't bash .


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## a. palmer jr. (May 24, 2012)

If you're looking for a small chainsaw for cutting limbs or something small I'd search for a Poulan 25 series saw, they're light enough for me and you don't have that annoying chain brake to worry about...


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## THALL10326 (May 24, 2012)

I started it up and I turned my back for only 20 seconds. When I turned back around my saw was on fire. I want my money back. I swear the brake was not on and no I didn't leave it run on high idle with the brake on for about 10 minutes. The saw just exploded right before my eyes. Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## Fish (May 24, 2012)

THALL10326 said:


> I started it up and I turned my back for only 20 seconds. When I turned back around my saw was on fire. I want my money back. I swear the brake was not on and no I didn't leave it run on high idle with the brake on for about 10 minutes. The saw just exploded right before my eyes. Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Lol, bought time you reared your ugly head!!!!!!


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## Fish (May 24, 2012)

I got more credits than you!!!!!


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 24, 2012)

THALL10326 said:


> I started it up and I turned my back for only 20 seconds. When I turned back around my saw was on fire. I want my money back. I swear the brake was not on and no I didn't leave it run on high idle with the brake on for about 10 minutes. The saw just exploded right before my eyes. Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Tommy....where have you been hiding? 

That be one crispy critter! :msp_ohmy: Fitting pic for the thread!

OP....does your saw look like this one?


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## a. palmer jr. (May 24, 2012)

You guys are making a good case for the outboard clutches...


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## Roll Tide (May 24, 2012)

a. palmer jr. said:


> I don't like the chains to be tight at all on my saws. I like to be able to pull them on the bar with little resistance but not so loose that the saw throws them off.





THALL10326 said:


> I started it up and I turned my back for only 20 seconds. When I turned back around my saw was on fire. I want my money back. I swear the brake was not on and no I didn't leave it run on high idle with the brake on for about 10 minutes. The saw just exploded right before my eyes. Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


I seen a 290 just like that when I went to my silver tech school ...is that the same one I wonder ....damn sure looks like it


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 24, 2012)

Fish said:


> Lol, bought time you reared your ugly head!!!!!!



Fish has been lost with out you!


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 24, 2012)

a. palmer jr. said:


> You guys are making a good case for the outboard clutches...


 and a safety switch on the chain brake. The trigger can't be squeezed if it's on.


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 24, 2012)

Fish said:


> I got more credits than you!!!!!



Did you pay for them? :hmm3grin2orange:


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## THALL10326 (May 24, 2012)

Fish said:


> Lol, bought time you reared your ugly head!!!!!!



Hush you heathen, I decided to let ya run the place for alittle while. I see things are about the same, this saw is junk , my dealer screwed me, gotta lovem,LOLOLOL

Fish ask the poster is he has a sister in Virginia. A few weeks ago a lady brought in a FSE60 electric trimmer claiming the string wouldn't feed when she tapped the head on the ground. I said maybe it isn't loaded right. She says well your the guy that loaded it for me last time. I go ut oh, did I f-up. I checked the head, loaded perfectly by a master loader, not baiter mind ya. I plugged the machine in and pulled the trigger and tapped the head on the floor and low and behold it fed the line out. Natually being the low life get even sumab-ch that I are I looked the lady in the face with that "so it won't feed the line huh look". Before I could utter a word she says I see what I was doing wrong now. I go whatcha mean. She says I was releasing the trigger till it stopped and then tapping the head on the ground, I didn't keep the heading turning like you just did. I said okkkkkkkkkkkkkk. Check if the lady is kin to the poster Fish, good chance they are,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## THALL10326 (May 24, 2012)

rolltide said:


> I seen a 290 just like that when I went to my silver tech school ...is that the same one I wonder ....damn sure looks like it



Got no idea. That saw does show one thing about some folks, it shows how dayumm stupid they are,LOL


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## THALL10326 (May 24, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Tommy....where have you been hiding?
> 
> That be one crispy critter! :msp_ohmy: Fitting pic for the thread!
> 
> OP....does your saw look like this one?



I don't post much in the spring, busy season, keeps me hopping. Starting to slack up alittle bit now so tonight I thought I'd pop in and see how Fish is running the place, he's doing pruty durn good. Looks like he's keeping em straight. He tant me but hell who is, hahaha, (gotcha)


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

rolltide said:


> oh yeah such a hard on lol... I am a tech for stihl so people come in saying the same old "this saw is a piece of crap " 99% of the time it's user error . Just saying ask for advice don't bash .




Thanks, I"m just saying that it is obvious that you work for Stihl. I knew that without you having to even tell me. It was obvious. You probably do hear it all the time because that is almost quote for quote what the Stihl warranty guy told me..big surprise.


But just like die hard car fans of certain brands, they can do no wrong. BMW folks are the same way. Ford vs.Chevy...same debate. My point is some companies get cheap.


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

CTYank said:


> FreeFlowin,
> Too bad you didn't research stihl 180 here, before buying; then that wouldn't have happened.
> 
> Never, I say never, let yourself be awed by a brand-name. Especially not on a small stihl saw.
> ...



You are right, I wish I had been on this site before. I like Hitachi power tools, so that is sweet. 

Smoking internal meant, it wasn't the exhaust, and it wasn't just under the chain sprocket guard on the outside. It was inside that even. I didn't dig too deep because I didn't want to open anything wrong and have them say I voided my warranty...HAH!!!!


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

THALL10326 said:


> Hush you heathen, I decided to let ya run the place for alittle while. I see things are about the same, this saw is junk , my dealer screwed me, gotta lovem,LOLOLOL
> 
> Fish ask the poster is he has a sister in Virginia. A few weeks ago a lady brought in a FSE60 electric trimmer claiming the string wouldn't feed when she tapped the head on the ground. I said maybe it isn't loaded right. She says well your the guy that loaded it for me last time. I go ut oh, did I f-up. I checked the head, loaded perfectly by a master loader, not baiter mind ya. I plugged the machine in and pulled the trigger and tapped the head on the floor and low and behold it fed the line out. Natually being the low life get even sumab-ch that I are I looked the lady in the face with that "so it won't feed the line huh look". Before I could utter a word she says I see what I was doing wrong now. I go whatcha mean. She says I was releasing the trigger till it stopped and then tapping the head on the ground, I didn't keep the heading turning like you just did. I said okkkkkkkkkkkkkk. Check if the lady is kin to the poster Fish, good chance they are,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Fish ask this poster if he is the coolest, funniest sumab-ch ever to walk this planet!


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## homelitejim (May 24, 2012)

I chipped a 017 out of a block of ice which it had been sitting in all winter, thawed it out, drained and cleaned it up, put in fresh mix and it fired right up, this saw had obviously been sitting outside its entire life as the orange was almost white. It is still cutting wood. It sounds like the chain was on to tight and it burnt up the saw, echo has a bunch of great video's on proper saw operation and care, probably the best I have seen, then do yourself a favor and go to walmart and buy a poulan, that way if you accidentally mess another saw up they pretty much just hand you a new one.

Good to see you Thall.


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## Roll Tide (May 24, 2012)

I do agree I've had warranty fixes and am glad to let someone know when it's a defect but most of the time when I hear something like this it turns out to be user error. Mid Atlantic stihl has always been more than happy to go out of there way to help a customer with an error . But when the product is "junk" ill just hand it back to the customer and let them figure it out.but that's just me .


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## FreeFlowin (May 24, 2012)

This is what I work on, no saws here. So, no I am not an expert. Which I made clear from the beginning. 
View attachment 239356


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## FATGUY (May 24, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> Fish ask this poster if he is the coolest, funniest sumab-ch ever to walk this planet!



after all the ribbin' you took to come back with a post like that tells me you'll fit in here quite well. 
Welcome to AS, sorry 'bout your saw. Live and learn. Buy a used, better made model next time, but before you do, get some instruction from someone who knows saws.


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 24, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> This is what I work on, no saws here. So, no I am not an expert. Which I made clear from the beginning.
> View attachment 239356



Fish has his roll and so do I! 

Here's your pic embeded!

Looks like it's one of those cordless drills! :msp_w00t:


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## rupedoggy (May 24, 2012)

It seems to me a chainsaw is one of the few pieces of equipment that people will still try to run and make cut when it is making smoke that smells like burning plastic. When a hair dryer, electric razor, or blender does this they turn it off.:wink2:


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## Overtrained (May 24, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Tommy....where have you been hiding?
> 
> That be one crispy critter! :msp_ohmy: Fitting pic for the thread!
> 
> OP....does your saw look like this one?



Stihl will have to make flame retardant chaps if this keeps up :tongue2:


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## a. palmer jr. (May 24, 2012)

THALL10326 said:


> Hush you heathen, I decided to let ya run the place for alittle while. I see things are about the same, this saw is junk , my dealer screwed me, gotta lovem,LOLOLOL
> 
> Fish ask the poster is he has a sister in Virginia. A few weeks ago a lady brought in a FSE60 electric trimmer claiming the string wouldn't feed when she tapped the head on the ground. I said maybe it isn't loaded right. She says well your the guy that loaded it for me last time. I go ut oh, did I f-up. I checked the head, loaded perfectly by a master loader, not baiter mind ya. I plugged the machine in and pulled the trigger and tapped the head on the floor and low and behold it fed the line out. Natually being the low life get even sumab-ch that I are I looked the lady in the face with that "so it won't feed the line huh look". Before I could utter a word she says I see what I was doing wrong now. I go whatcha mean. She says I was releasing the trigger till it stopped and then tapping the head on the ground, I didn't keep the heading turning like you just did. I said okkkkkkkkkkkkkk. Check if the lady is kin to the poster Fish, good chance they are,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Is this a blonde joke?


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## a. palmer jr. (May 24, 2012)

Overtrained said:


> Stihl will have to make flame retardant chaps if this keeps up :tongue2:



It looks like the bar nuts can be salvaged...


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## tdi-rick (May 25, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> Fish ask this poster if he is the coolest, funniest sumab-ch ever to walk this planet!



 I'm with Nik, that's one of the best comebacks to 'ol Tommy I've seen in a long time.


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## axlr8 (May 25, 2012)

is the ms180 cb really crap? or is this all user error? ive heard good mostly, but a few bads.....Whats the deal?:msp_mellow:


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## Overtrained (May 25, 2012)

a. palmer jr. said:


> It looks like the bar nuts can be salvaged...



At least the stihl sticker survived so we can identify the body:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Fish (May 25, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Tommy....where have you been hiding?
> 
> That be one crispy critter! :msp_ohmy: Fitting pic for the thread!
> 
> OP....does your saw look like this one?



Now if that had only been a metal sprocket cover, the guy would still be cutting.........


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## Graham99 (May 25, 2012)

Aaah that is nothing. It will buff out. :biggrin:


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## Fish (May 25, 2012)

Yeah, please put up some pics, the saw may not be that expensive to fix.


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## Somesawguy (May 25, 2012)

a. palmer jr. said:


> It looks like the bar nuts can be salvaged...



She's a runner with a little fiberglass. Some minor cosmetic defects. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Somesawguy (May 25, 2012)

axlr8 said:


> is the ms180 cb really crap? or is this all user error? ive heard good mostly, but a few bads.....Whats the deal?:msp_mellow:



It sounds like the chain may have been on too tight. It's a bit hard to tell with no pictures. I'm sure we'll see some in a few weeks when the OP can get home, and take a few. 

What they need to come up with is an auto tensioning system for the chain. oke: Even people that are supposedly professionals seem to run the chain too tight. 

edit: oh look they did make one.

###################################/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=11512


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## In The Weeds (May 25, 2012)

THALL10326 said:


> Hush you heathen, I decided to let ya run the place for alittle while. I see things are about the same, this saw is junk , my dealer screwed me, gotta lovem,LOLOLOL
> 
> Fish ask the poster is he has a sister in Virginia. A few weeks ago a lady brought in a FSE60 electric trimmer claiming the string wouldn't feed when she tapped the head on the ground. I said maybe it isn't loaded right. She says well your the guy that loaded it for me last time. I go ut oh, did I f-up. I checked the head, loaded perfectly by a master loader, not baiter mind ya. I plugged the machine in and pulled the trigger and tapped the head on the floor and low and behold it fed the line out. Natually being the low life get even sumab-ch that I are I looked the lady in the face with that "so it won't feed the line huh look". Before I could utter a word she says I see what I was doing wrong now. I go whatcha mean. She says I was releasing the trigger till it stopped and then tapping the head on the ground, I didn't keep the heading turning like you just did. I said okkkkkkkkkkkkkk. Check if the lady is kin to the poster Fish, good chance they are,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Picking on little old ladies now? Where do you draw the line man? :shock:


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## SawTroll (May 25, 2012)

rupedoggy said:


> I think the clutch got hot, not the chain brake. When we see the pictures, if the clutch drum is not blue, I will admit I was wrong. Mike





SawTroll said:


> Chain brake band "hanging" on the drum, or a waay to tight chain, was what I was thinking of when posting this;





FreeFlowin said:


> It was pretty tight, but not impossible to move by hand. I know that isn't very specific.





FreeFlowin said:


> I believe it was blue and actually had a little bit of all the rainbow spectrum.





THALL10326 said:


> I started it up and I turned my back for only 20 seconds. When I turned back around my saw was on fire. I want my money back. I swear the brake was not on and no I didn't leave it run on high idle with the brake on for about 10 minutes. The saw just exploded right before my eyes. Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



The answer likely is in there, as some way the clutch got overheated!

Nice to see you around Tommy! :cool2:



axlr8 said:


> is the ms180 cb really crap? or is this all user error? ive heard good mostly, but a few bads.....Whats the deal?:msp_mellow:



Most likely both!


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## a. palmer jr. (May 25, 2012)

Somesawguy said:


> It sounds like the chain may have been on too tight. It's a bit hard to tell with no pictures. I'm sure we'll see some in a few weeks when the OP can get home, and take a few.
> 
> What they need to come up with is an auto tensioning system for the chain. oke: Even people that are supposedly professionals seem to run the chain too tight.
> 
> ...



Part of the problem is when you have a worn sprocket..sometimes it's tight and sometimes it's too loose depending on where the chain is riding on it. On the Stihls and maybe some others with the inboard clutch, you have a bunch of plastic just a millimeter or two away from the hot clutch.


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## Vibes (May 25, 2012)

It could have been the bar nuts weren't tight enough and the chain tightened as you used it. I've seen that happen before on a new saw. Just thinking out loud.

But yea, if you smell stuff burning, and see smoke on that gas rig you work on, do you keep it steady as she goes? Did you keep using the saw when you noticed this happening? Not hatin, just sayin.

Appearently you didn't research this site enough to think you could come on here and state that something went wrong with a Stihl, and the guy who sold it to you is a dutch bag and get away with that. Read up!!!


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## In The Weeds (May 25, 2012)

So why would this repair be quoted so expensively if this is the case? If the cover was metal would it have been that much less of a fix?


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## belgian (May 25, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> Fish ask this poster if he is the coolest, funniest sumab-ch ever to walk this planet!



You may not know much about chainsaws, but heck, you sure know how to treat a Stihl dealer........:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 25, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Tommy....where have you been hiding?
> 
> That be one crispy critter! :msp_ohmy: Fitting pic for the thread!
> 
> OP....does your saw look like this one?





Fish said:


> Now if that had only been a metal sprocket cover, the guy would still be cutting.........burning wood



Fixed that one for you Fish!

NO....... NO...we've got it all wrong! That's Stihl's new clutch cover for ripping/noodling! Just think of the $$ spent on larger clutch covers! Now with this mod..............oh....never mind!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Vibes (May 25, 2012)

belgian said:


> You may not know much about chainsaws, but heck, you sure know how to treat a Stihl dealer........:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:





Your punishment for talking poop on a Stihl dealer is you must read the entire post on flippy caps and report back to Sister Mary Elephant.


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## tommyus4 (May 25, 2012)

After reading this thread, I don't think this is a bad reflection of the Stihl rep. He's only going by what the dealer said.

As for the dealer, I understand diagnostic charges. But they usually happen when it's the old 'should I repair the tranny or junk the car' situations. I've been fairly forwarned every single time in my life. I would think the dealer had an inclination that it was op error and forwarned. Since 99% of the time and all.

Either the whole story is not here or the dealer is not a kind and gentle soul. The dealer HAD to know he was burning a bridge. What led to that is a question that only two people can answer.

PS

When I started reading this thread it was 58 degrees in Minnesota. It is now 59. One more degree and it will officially be summer there. Break out the speedos...


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## FreeFlowin (May 25, 2012)

Vibes said:


> Appearently you didn't research this site enough to think you could come on here and state that something went wrong with a Stihl, and the guy who sold it to you is a dutch bag and get away with that. Read up!!!



I didn't research this site, I didn't realize all Stihl dealers are the same either, believe me if I knew I would be dealing with crap and a douche-bag, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. What is frustrating about this, as the only non dealer/NON EXPERT on this site, is that when you buy something brand new and it smokes not long after you start using it and is trashed right off the bat, it makes you think it is a P.O.S. Anything worth its weight should not trash that quickly or easily no matter how dumb the user is, especially when the user left the settings the way the chainsaw was at purchase and was just cutting wood. Stihl happens to be EVERYWHERE, so big surprise that they have a big following. But to say that EVERY SINGLE piece of equipment was basically built by God because it is a Stihl... is just plain ignorance. I find it odd that I haven't seen any of the hard core Stihl people even list they own a 180 C, which is what I was talking about in the first place...not Stihl...but the Stihl 180 C-B.
Remember when Toyota, the greatest most reliable car in the world started slamming into things until they had a recall on their accelerators? Me neither, it couldn't have happened because everyone and their Grandma thinks Toyota's are the best. :msp_confused:


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## morewood (May 25, 2012)

Remember, not everone here has acquired sainthood just yet.:msp_unsure: Your saw's problems can only come down to two things, you or it. Most on here are going to point to you first because that is what they do. Me, don't have enough intel to make an informed decision, so I won't. I will say this though, either way this happens to turn out, you learned a valuable lesson. 

Shea


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## Gologit (May 25, 2012)

FreeFlowin;3672112.... Anything worth its weight should not trash that quickly or easily no matter how dumb the user is... :msp_confused:[/QUOTE said:


> In other words you should be able to just do anything you want with a piece of machinery, abuse it badly, and expect the machine to compensate for your lack of knowledge and skill?
> 
> Wouldn't that be nice?
> 
> You've been given some good advice here and the benefit of a lot of combined expertise. Try using some of it. And, while you're at it, take a good hard look at the way you ran that saw. All the evidence so far points to user abuse.


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## a. palmer jr. (May 25, 2012)

I wouldn't take a saw to a Stihl dealer to have it worked on, they're too expensive. What I would do is find someone like the people on this site and let them do it. Some of the guys here take more pride in their work and would probably do it a little cheaper than the high dollar dealers. Stihl parts are expensive also and some of our guys can work with slightly used parts instead of buying all new.


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 25, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> I didn't research this site, I didn't realize all Stihl dealers are the same either, believe me if I knew I would be dealing with crap and a douche-bag, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. What is frustrating about this, as the only non dealer/NON EXPERT on this site, is that *when you buy something brand new and it smokes not long after you start using it and is trashed right off the bat*, it makes you think it is a P.O.S. Anything worth its weight should not trash that quickly or easily no matter how dumb the user is, especially when *the user left the settings the way the chainsaw was at purchase* and was just cutting wood. Stihl happens to be EVERYWHERE, so big surprise that they have a big following. But to say that EVERY SINGLE piece of equipment was basically built by God because it is a Stihl... is just plain ignorance. I find it odd that I haven't seen any of the hard core Stihl people even list they own a 180 C, which is what I was talking about in the first place...not Stihl...but the Stihl 180 C-B.
> Remember when Toyota, the greatest most reliable car in the world started slamming into things until they had a recall on their accelerators? Me neither, it couldn't have happened because everyone and their Grandma thinks Toyota's are the best. :msp_confused:



Interesting.

Did the chain require to be tightened during this time? If it did how tight was it tightened? Did the dealer go over this with you?

I take it the saw pictured is in a little worse condition than yours.

The MS 170 & 180's have their place. Are they built like a PRO saw? No. Do they cost the same as a PRO saw? No. A PRO saw will heat up and melt things too if ran too long with something out of adjustment or in the wrong position. IMO if everything was adjusted as it should have been it would have worked fine for you. Someone that isn't experienced to running a saw may not be aware of things out of adjustment. 

I helped a guy with a saw the other day. The screw had fallen out of the anti-viberation mount on his back handle. He wasn't even aware of this. I could tell the moment I picked the saw up. He also didn't know that the saw was missing the bar adjusting bolt and 'nut' and was just pulling on the bar to tighten the chain. Just so happen that I had the parts he needed in my saw tool box. He hadn't even thought to check the air filter which was dirty than dirty! The thing is. I could see myself making some or all of these mistakes before I started using a saw on a regular bases. I guess what I'm trying to say is: We all have to start some where learning about these cutting machines. 

I let this same guy use my Makita 520i as his chain was dull. (He gave me a good size Oak tree and we were cutting it up) I could tell he enjoyed using the Makita over his Craftsman. All I told him was to 'keep the chain out of the dirt and your leg'! That tree will be some nice fire wood when it's dry.

I'm waiting to see the pics.

Some lessons in life cost a lot more than $200.00.


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## fearofpavement (May 25, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> This is what I work on, no saws here. So, no I am not an expert. Which I made clear from the beginning.




You working the Bakken fields up there?


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## tommyus4 (May 25, 2012)

Actually, many a person does not think Toyota, Honda et all are great cars for any and all uses. In fact, I would categorize them as 'homeowner' cars. If they could take a beating, you would see them being employed as Police cars and cabs. I understand a part of that is FWD related but still, no way any car they make can take an overall beating.

The '98 Odyssey is the least problematic minivan in history and yet it was instantly destroyed as a Cab in NYC and that project was scrapped. My Honda would not last one month in the South Bronx as a Police car. An '86 Caprice could last a decade if they weren't physically demolished in the process.

Point being: Put an alleged 'legendary' brand in it's proper place for it's proper use. If you understand that the Toyota automobile is in fact useless as a commercial vehicle, then you should understand that a Stihl homeowner saw is also basically useless in a professional arborist's arsenal. Thus the mythical 'Stihl is an end to all ends' should not be in effect. You are correct. Toyota does in fact make cars that are crap for certain applications. So does Stihl.

Of course, I understand that a saw should not burn out in 90 minutes if it was in fact used the way you said it was used. If, however, there was operator error, then there is a likely chance that any model would have also turned to toast. 

You can rant on to the end of time, which is your perogative. But without knowing the other side of the story, or at least some photos of the damage, there will be no point in this exercise (lack of a better term). I may not have any saw experience but I have a ton of 'resolving issues' experience. This one can't be resolved without more information. 'He said' without the 'she said' with no physical evidence, is virtually impossible to determine fault. Just like in a court of law...


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## Chris-PA (May 25, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Did the chain require to be tightened during this time? If it did how tight was it tightened? Did the dealer go over this with you?
> 
> ...


There's nothing to adjust but chain tension. The brake is either on or off. If the clutch overheated it was from friction, and while I can imagine some circumstances where operator error would have the rpms up high enough to run it against the brake, that seems a bit contrived. Therefore a chain that was so tight the clutch was slipping constantly is the only mechanism for overheating the clutch that seems reasonable - and I'm not sure I'm really buying that either. Would it really do that? It's worth keeping in mind that parts can be out of spec and/or improperly assembled, no matter what name is on the label. A bad/stuck clutch or dragging brake band would be equally possible explanations.


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## Fish (May 25, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> I didn't research this site, I didn't realize all Stihl dealers are the same either, believe me if I knew I would be dealing with crap and a douche-bag, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. What is frustrating about this, as the only non dealer/NON EXPERT on this site, is that when you buy something brand new and it smokes not long after you start using it and is trashed right off the bat, it makes you think it is a P.O.S. Anything worth its weight should not trash that quickly or easily no matter how dumb the user is, especially when the user left the settings the way the chainsaw was at purchase and was just cutting wood. Stihl happens to be EVERYWHERE, so big surprise that they have a big following. But to say that EVERY SINGLE piece of equipment was basically built by God because it is a Stihl... is just plain ignorance. I find it odd that I haven't seen any of the hard core Stihl people even list they own a 180 C, which is what I was talking about in the first place...not Stihl...but the Stihl 180 C-B.
> Remember when Toyota, the greatest most reliable car in the world started slamming into things until they had a recall on their accelerators? Me neither, it couldn't have happened because everyone and their Grandma thinks Toyota's are the best. :msp_confused:



Depending on the amount of melting damage, I could probably get you fixed for $40-$50 or so. If it is the non ez start version.


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## FreeFlowin (May 25, 2012)

fearofpavement said:


> You working the Bakken fields up there?



Yes, Bakken and Three Forks.



fish said:


> Depending on the amount of melting damage, I could probably get you fixed for $40-$50 or so. If it is the non ez start version.



That would be great, then I could get the half cut tree lying in my yard off the grass before the Ol' Lady starts her "subtle" hints. I think when this 180 C is resolved and fixed, I am going to still look around for something a bit bigger around the pro size with more metal housings. Now that everything finally leaved at our new house we just bought in March, it has come to our attention I have more to cut down then I realized.


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## zogger (May 25, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> Yes, Bakken and Three Forks.
> 
> 
> 
> That would be great, then I could get the half cut tree lying in my yard off the grass before the Ol' Lady starts her "subtle" hints. I think when this 180 C is resolved and fixed, I am going to still look around for something a bit bigger around the pro size with more metal housings. Now that everything finally leaved at our new house we just bought in March, it has come to our attention I have more to cut down then I realized.



Just keep checking the classifieds here. There's no absolute need to buy new and expensive for occasional use cutting. For what you paid for that little saw new, that and another benjamin would have gotten you a larger good shape pro saw here most likely.


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## homelitejim (May 25, 2012)

I would highly recommend that the OP buy a cheap used home owner saw until he has enough experience properly maintaining a saw, no need to throw away more money on a nice pro saw only to have the same problems, I don't think I can take any more saw bashing, if you hang around here long enough you will like all saws, including the dreaded mini mac.


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## Saw Dr. (May 25, 2012)

Just thought I'd toss up a pic of another cheap plastic case saw. This one did come in for a rebuild. Turd only lasted a thousand or two cords of wood being cut by a tree service. Still ran, but getting long in the tooth. Funny thing, the clutch was still in good shape, and the PLASTIC cradle was not burnt at all. It was such a POS, that they wanted me to rebuild it. That saw has been in service for 1.5 years now since the rebuild...... I looked a while for a pic of a 180 in similar condition, but couldn't find one. I have seen plenty of well-used 017-180 series saws, just never snapped any pics.


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## In The Weeds (May 25, 2012)

Saw Dr. said:


> Just thought I'd toss up a pic of another cheap plastic case saw. This one did come in for a rebuild. Turd only lasted a thousand or two cords of wood being cut by a tree service. Still ran, but getting long in the tooth. Funny thing, the clutch was still in good shape, and the PLASTIC cradle was not burnt at all. It was such a POS, that they wanted me to rebuild it. That saw has been in service for 1.5 years now since the rebuild...... I looked a while for a pic of a 180 in similar condition, but couldn't find one. I have seen plenty of well-used 017-180 series saws, just never snapped any pics.



Now THAT'S a saw with character. :msp_thumbup:
Poor gal looks like she's been left out in the rain once or twice though.


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## morgaj1 (May 25, 2012)

Saw Dr. said:


> Just thought I'd toss up a pic of another cheap plastic case saw. This one did come in for a rebuild. Turd only lasted a thousand or two cords of wood being cut by a tree service. Still ran, but getting long in the tooth. Funny thing, the clutch was still in good shape, and the PLASTIC cradle was not burnt at all. It was such a POS, that they wanted me to rebuild it. That saw has been in service for 1.5 years now since the rebuild...... I looked a while for a pic of a 180 in similar condition, but couldn't find one. I have seen plenty of well-used 017-180 series saws, just never snapped any pics.



A little Simple Green and WD40, she'll be good as new. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## spacemule (May 25, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> @Rolltide- that was how the Stihl warranty sounded, said my story had a hole in it because I said moved the start lever from 0 to I, put my foot in the guard and pulled and it started. Which is all I recall doing. When it started it was on low rev's so I know it wasn't in the hot-start position and I know it wasn't reving against the chain brake. But if I was unclear about this before-- sorry, they said I ran the RPM's up with the chain brake "ON" causing it to melt to something internally in the engine. I don't totally understand, but there are melted parts inside around the engine, I am assuming what ever holds the chain brake around the clutch or something. I had to leave for work yesterday and can't leave now for two weeks to go in and talk to the guy in person.
> 
> What I used the chain brake for was asked. I used it when walking around from one set of branches in my yard to a different set that was across the lawn, I used when setting the saw on the ground while my dogs were around and I repositioned some logs for cutting, and then I used off and on a few times while investigating the smoke trying to see what the deal was. When it was (assumed flooded) after I took a break to let it cool down, I did the hot start procedure as per the manual and it worked to get it running, but still had smoke coming out of the internal. Doing the hotstart requires you to use the brake in the "ON" position to start it. What I was referring to was that both videos and blogs for Stihls and other manufactures recommend using the break when initially starting your saw, which I did.
> 
> ...


You got a picture of the damage? Unless the brake was engaged and the engine revving, there's really not much of any way for those parts to melt, which happens to a huge number of newbie saws. 

Sure, there could have been a defect where the brake was not fully disengaging, but not likely. As far as the warranty, you can burn *any* saw up with improper use of the chain brake and throttle, and I don't know of any manufacturer who would cover it. The equivalent in automotive speak would be buying a new truck, pulling up next to a tree, putting it in drive, and revving the engine until the tires melted off or the engine blew.

A picture of the damaged area would more than likely clear all of this up.


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## Saw Dr. (May 26, 2012)

Saw Dr. said:


> Just thought I'd toss up a pic of another cheap plastic case saw. This one did come in for a rebuild. Turd only lasted a thousand or two cords of wood being cut by a tree service. Still ran, but getting long in the tooth. Funny thing, the clutch was still in good shape, and the PLASTIC cradle was not burnt at all. It was such a POS, that they wanted me to rebuild it. That saw has been in service for 1.5 years now since the rebuild...... I looked a while for a pic of a 180 in similar condition, but couldn't find one. I have seen plenty of well-used 017-180 series saws, just never snapped any pics.



OK, so it is lame to quote my own post. I cannot resist. In a twist of fate, this saw stopped by today. Drive sprocket was almost worn the whole way through. Sadly, they set it on a brush pile and could not find it later. It turned up when they were cutting the brush pile down and sawed through the top handle..... So I put a sprocket and handle on it. For kicks, I checked the fragile plastic cradle. Imagine my surprise when I found it to be in solid, un-burned condition. Didn't have the camera nearby, sorry.


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## THALL10326 (May 26, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> Fish ask this poster if he is the coolest, funniest sumab-ch ever to walk this planet!



LOL, awwwwwwwwww good come back there FreeFlow. I saw that and giggled and thought to myself that ole boy is pretty sharp. You and me could have alot of fun for sure, cheers!!!


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## THALL10326 (May 26, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> I didn't research this site, *I didn't realize all Stihl dealers are the same either*, believe me if I knew I would be dealing with *crap and a douche-bag*, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. What is frustrating about this, *as the only non dealer/NON EXPERT on this site*, is that when you buy something brand new and it smokes not long after you start using it and is trashed right off the bat, it makes you think it is a P.O.S. Anything worth its weight should not trash that quickly or easily no matter how *dumb the user is*, especially when the user left the settings the way the chainsaw was at purchase and was just cutting wood. Stihl happens to be EVERYWHERE, so big surprise that they have a big following. *But to say that EVERY SINGLE piece of equipment was basically built by God because it is a Stihl... is just plain ignorance.* I find it odd that I haven't seen any of the hard core *Stihl people even list they own a 180 C*, which is what I was talking about in the first place...not Stihl...*but the Stihl 180 C-B.*Remember when Toyota, the greatest most reliable car in the world started slamming into things until they had a recall on their accelerators? Me neither, it couldn't have happened because everyone and their Grandma thinks Toyota's are the best. :msp_confused:



Free all dealers aren't the same. You can blame all of them but they still aren't the same. Crap and a douche-bag, I'm sure the feelings between you and him are mutual, something to ponder. Many many many non-experts on this site, you being one of many. No one ever said every piece of Stihl equipment was built by God, you may feel that way because many didn't swollow your story. I have a Stihl 180 C-B and I've sold thousands of them. I've had no trouble with mine and yes I've had some come back melted beyond repair. Cause has always been the same, brake on while reving the saw too long. Friction causes heat Free. I'm sure you know about the indians rubbing two sticks of wood together to start a fire, same theroy applies to most any two objects rubbed together, they heat up, keep rubbing the hotter they get. Imagine a metal shoe clutch rubbing a metal sprocket thats locked and that cutch is turing 8-9000 rpms. Same applies to that metal chain spinning 60mph in wood but not cutting because its too dull, soon you see the wood smoking. Told ya all that just to show ya all dealers aren't the same. Most stubborn people that can't admit they did something wrong are about the same, they toss the blame on the product or someone else but never admit it was them that screwed up, oh well such is life. Last word of advice, when you see or even smell smoke something is getting hot. If you know whatever your using is not suppose to be smoking the best thing to do is shut it off and find out why its smoking before you ruin it. Proceed on and enjoy....


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## THALL10326 (May 26, 2012)

In The Weeds said:


> Picking on little old ladies now? Where do you draw the line man? :shock:



She was not a little ole lady, in fact she was a mights attractive. She was picking on me untill she saw what she was doing wrong. She fessed up right away and went away smiling, well I think she was smiling, her back side sure was,wowow, curvy.....


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## a. palmer jr. (May 26, 2012)

I think that these 'homeowner' type saws, no matter who made them, are intended for light, occasional use. They don't last long if you abuse them or throw them around. That's a good kind of saw to have if you're not a wood cutter other than a little firewood every now and then and handle your equipment like you want it to last awhile. They all do pretty well in that case.


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## THALL10326 (May 26, 2012)

a. palmer jr. said:


> I think that these 'homeowner' type saws, no matter who made them, are intended for light, occasional use. They don't last long if you abuse them or throw them around. That's a good kind of saw to have if you're not a wood cutter other than a little firewood every now and then and handle your equipment like you want it to last awhile. They all do pretty well in that case.



Good post and correct. I have to admit Free does have some leg to stand on in which alot of what he spoke about is not his fault but the dealers fault. I've noticed he has not mentioned that the dealer took a few minutes to explain to him how the brake works. Thats on the dealer, not Free. Every single chainsaw I sell I make sure to ask the buyer if he understands how the brake works, 50% of the customers say they don't. When they leave with the saw they do for I explain it to them. The funny part is most of the melted ones I do get back is where the saw was loaned to someone and the owner didn't explain how the brake worked to the guy borrowing it..


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## zogger (May 26, 2012)

*I had no clue!*



THALL10326 said:


> Good post and correct. I have to admit Free does have some leg to stand on in which alot of what he spoke about is not his fault but the dealers fault. I've noticed he has not mentioned that the dealer took a few minutes to explain to him how the brake works. Thats on the dealer, not Free. Every single chainsaw I sell I make sure to ask the buyer if he understands how the brake works, 50% of the customers say they don't. When they leave with the saw they do for I explain it to them. The funny part is most of the melted ones I do get back is where the saw was loaned to someone and the owner didn't explain how the brake worked to the guy borrowing it..



First saw I ever ran with a chainbrake was my employers. I had absolutely zero clue about chainbrakes, what they were or how they worked. I ran the saw several times until one day it musta kicked a little and the brake locked on. WTF??? Saw running, no chain action..hmmm... I was flabbergasted. 

Dang saw was broken, wouldn't work!! I really thought I had screwed up bad somehow. Took it to the shop, dude laughed out loud righteously at me! "CLICK there ya go, fixed"! BWAHAHAHAHAHA I started laughing then too. course I felt like a dweeb idjit, but really..."chainbrake, wazzat"???? I *really* thought it was just a fancy schmancy knuckleguard thing. I had run maybe..dunno, upwards of a dozen different saws in my life up to that point, but never one with a brake. I just slap didn't know.


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## SawTroll (May 26, 2012)

THALL10326 said:


> LOL, awwwwwwwwww good come back there FreeFlow. I saw that and giggled and thought to myself that ole boy is pretty sharp. You and me could have alot of fun for sure, cheers!!!



Aren't you busy enough, with your endless chase after Demi the fake-boob princess? :cool2:


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## Chris-PA (May 26, 2012)

a. palmer jr. said:


> I think that these 'homeowner' type saws, no matter who made them, are intended for light, occasional use. They don't last long if you abuse them or throw them around. That's a good kind of saw to have if you're not a wood cutter other than a little firewood every now and then and handle your equipment like you want it to last awhile. They all do pretty well in that case.


Well, they're not intended for the kind of use they'd get with pros, but I disagree they're as fragile as you make them out to be. I cut all my wood with homeowner saws, and that's more than "light, occasional use". I find they're pretty tough if you don't abuse them. The most problematic one has been the Poulan 2775, as it had two design defects (a muffler heat shield that fatigue fails causing the chain brake to melt, and the engine mounting bolts with no locking hardware and the heads bind up to bushings that can spin). But I've certainly read about other saws with defects. I think with proper tuning, good mix, sharp chains and basic maintenance they're good for everything short of professional use. My 42cc Poulan/Craftsman is simply dead solid reliable and always gets the job done. Even the 32cc Mac is a tough little saw. I haven't frozen to death yet. 

I'm not a Stihl fan, but while a non-adjustable carb would be a unacceptable to me I have no doubt one could do a lot of work with a 170/180 and have it last a long time.


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## SawTroll (May 26, 2012)

They are what they are, very cheaply made clamshell consumer saws, with low power and cheap plastic cases - but that still doesn't explain what happened.....


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## a. palmer jr. (May 26, 2012)

THALL10326 said:


> Good post and correct. I have to admit Free does have some leg to stand on in which alot of what he spoke about is not his fault but the dealers fault. I've noticed he has not mentioned that the dealer took a few minutes to explain to him how the brake works. Thats on the dealer, not Free. Every single chainsaw I sell I make sure to ask the buyer if he understands how the brake works, 50% of the customers say they don't. When they leave with the saw they do for I explain it to them. The funny part is most of the melted ones I do get back is where the saw was loaned to someone and the owner didn't explain how the brake worked to the guy borrowing it..



I may be different because I grew up when they didn't have chain brakes and I never had a saw with one until the last few years and I never use one when I start a saw like I've seen other people do, in fact I make sure it's off when I start it so it won't wear anything out.


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## SawTroll (May 26, 2012)

a. palmer jr. said:


> I may be different because I grew up when they didn't have chain brakes and I never had a saw with one until the last few years and I never use one when I start a saw like I've seen other people do, in fact I make sure it's off when I start it so it won't wear anything out.



I use the brake when the conditions dictate it (= not very often) - just remember to hit the trigger as soon as the saw starts, and it will go down to idle. and the brake won't do any harm. Then you can move the brake handle back, to release the brake, and save the clutch bearing from wear.....


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## FreeFlowin (May 27, 2012)

THALL10326 said:


> *Cause has always been the same, brake on while reving the saw too long*. Friction causes heat Free. Imagine a metal shoe clutch rubbing a metal sprocket thats locked and that cutch is turing 8-9000 rpms. Same applies to that metal chain spinning 60mph in wood but not cutting because its too dull, soon you see the wood smoking. Told ya all that just to show ya all dealers aren't the same.* Most stubborn people that can't admit they did something wrong are about the same*, they toss the blame on the product or someone else but never admit it was them that screwed up, oh well such is life..



I was not revving the engine with the brake on, at least for any extended time frame. I did leave the brake on when I set the saw on the ground and when I walked across my yard (lesson here was I should have just shut the thing off). But I definitely did not try and reenact some Jason movie scene while being safe with the chain brake on. I live in the middle of no where and have no one to impress with high RPM revving. The longest I revved it with the chain brake on was when doing the hot start procedure out of the manual, which I did as instructed and didn't leave running like that long, however this was after the first signs of smoke already appeared. 

Rereading the manual I see this


owner's manual said:


> Never run the saw above idle speed for more then 3 seconds when the chain brake is engaged *or when the chain is pinched or otherwise caught in the cut.* Clutch slippage can cause excessive heat, leading to severe damage to motor housing, clutch, chain brake.......if clutch slippage in excess of 3 seconds has occurred, allow motor housing to cool...



I will openly admit that I caught the chain for sure at least three different times around in the same session when it started smoking the first time. I don't think I ran the throttle for more then three seconds, but none the less I did pinch the chain and had to work the saw loose, and then proceeded to keep on slicing and dicing. This is something I have done with other saws in the past, but who knows...the manual makes it sound like the end result is the same as the chain brake. 



zogger said:


> I ran the saw several times until one day it *musta kicked a little and the brake locked on. WTF??? Saw running, no chain action..hmmm... I was flabbergasted*.



After reading this and perusing a lot of other threads, I have read a ton of comments where people were way way more abusive then anything I did. I'm not a saint, I just didn't have enough time with it to be able to do much of anything with it. I am known for how anal I am with my stuff and take very good care of it, so it is frustrating that I am "such an abusive nubie" with my stuff even though I have a mental break down even the first time my lawn mower got a scratch on it. I am a nubie, but not abusive. 

Some gents like SawTroll, Fish, and a few others asked if the chain was too tight, and that I also have to admit that I have no idea. I don't even know what too tight is to be honest, well I do know now that they described their preferences, but I didn't at the time.

To recap again, the brake worked..chain didn't move when brake on, chain didn't move when brake was off at idle speed, and chain moved when brake was off and throttle was squeezed. 



a. palmer jr. said:


> I may be different because I grew up when they didn't have chain brakes and I never had a saw with one until the last few years



I agree, using a Stihl 510 growing up didn't show many problems, and definitely no brake. When I worked for the city and used their Stihls (this was 12-13 yrs ago and can't recall the model numbers), they had chain brakes...I remember moving them off and on....but never had a problem, so I don't know.


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## FreeFlowin (May 27, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> I use the brake when the conditions dictate it (= not very often) - just remember to hit the trigger as soon as the saw starts, and it will go down to idle. and the brake won't do any harm. Then you can move the brake handle back, to release the brake, and save the clutch bearing from wear.....



If I can get that little piggy working again, I am about sure I'm never touching that brake again. I will just basically always leave it off and just kill the engine if not in use.


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## Philbert (May 27, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> . . . when you buy something brand new and it smokes not long after you start using it and is trashed right off the bat, it makes you think it is a P.O.S. Anything worth its weight should not trash that quickly or easily no matter how dumb the user is, especially when the user left the settings the way the chainsaw was at purchase and was just cutting wood.



Actually, a large number of customers trash their new chainsaws pretty quickly. Common causes are using gasoline without 2-cycle oil, or the wrong mix. Takes about 3 minutes. Others run theirs with a dull chain and try to force the motor - takes slightly longer. Third main cause is loaning the saw to a friend, brother-in-law, etc. We could make a 'Top 10' list, but others include putting the bar and chain oil in the fuel tank and vice versa; putting the chain on backwards and running it; storing it with old fuel in the tank; . . . None of these would be covered by warranty. 

The more that I learn about chainsaws, the more surprised I am that more people don't trash them.



FreeFlowin said:


> If I can get that little piggy working again, I am about sure I'm never touching that brake again. I will just basically always leave it off and just kill the engine if not in use.



As noted, these are sold as lighter duty saws at a lower cost than pro saws. That does not make them a POS. If you want that, try one of the $60 chainsaws sold at certain discount or home improvement stores. If you don't treat a pro saw right, you will get the same results, but pay more.

I have personally only used the 180 to trim a few limbs, and do not like the C-B (tool-less chain adjuster) feature. But I have had storm clean up volunteers run the snot out of MS250 saws with similar plastic cases. I use the chain brake _ALL OF THE TIME_ on a variety of saws and do not damage the saws. People make fun of me at A.S. 'Get-To-Gethers' for it, but I reflexively hit the chain brake with my wrist anytime I am taking a step or two, stop to think about what I need to do next, etc. I use it every time I start the saws. I don't engage it at full throttle.

We have had charring around the clutch area, and blueing of the clutch drum on a few saws, when people tried to rev the engines withe the brake band engaged, but that did not trash the saw. had to replace a few clutch drums. It sounds like you may have done this when you pinched your bar - 3 seconds is a _long_ time at 12,000 RPM.

If you are not happy with your ACE dealer, you might want to go talk to someone at Runnings'. They have a big STIHL display area in their store. Ask them about the features of your saw, explain to to them your problem, and ask for tips on using this particular saw - it is different than your father's saw.




tommyus4 said:


> Actually, many a person does not think Toyota, Honda et all are great cars for any and all uses.



Just like saws, cars are made for different uses. I once had a neighbor who off-road raced Peugeot cars - he would get the 'North Africa' edition models from the factory that had 200 extra body welds than the ones made for the US consumer market. With the Crown Victoria out of production, the era of body-on-frame police cruisers is at an end. Check out the police cars they use in Asia on Google images.


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## Philbert (May 27, 2012)

One other thought.

Without seeing you saw it's hard to know. But the motor in your saw is separate from the plastic case that surrounds it. Unless your case is melted like the ones in those photos, light charring of the plastic may only be cosmetic. Some can be sanded or shaved away if needed. Your saw should not be that heavily damaged.

Chances are the smoking was between your clutch and clutch drum, or clutch drum and brake band. You may only need to replace the clutch drum ($20 - 30, depending if you go with OEM or aftermarket) if it got blued and slips. You might need to replace the clutch ($60?) or clutch springs ($12) if they got really smoked.

Make sure that your chain runs smoothly through your bar (you mentioned pinching), and make sure that you don't over tighten it. The chain should not sag below the bar, but you should be able to pull it away from the bar groove 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch with light pressure.

Philbert


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## abikerboy (May 27, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> If I can get that little piggy working again, I am about sure I'm never touching that brake again. I will just basically always leave it off and just kill the engine if not in use.



Freeflowin, I've been watching this post for a couple of days, and finally caught up to a chainsaw mechanic buddy of mine, and I was told of a few things that could've happened on setup or before that would smoke a new saw. Some of his ideas; chain overtightened when saw was assembled. Chain could've had a kink or damaged link. Clutch needle bearing was damaged or maybe even missing. Grease or oil on the clutch shoes or drum would cause slipping, smoke and glaze. The bar could've been damaged, twisted or groove kinked during or before setup. The roller bearing/sprocket at the nose of the bar could've been defective or damaged. He says that he has seen several stihl oilers brand new that would oil the clutch better than it would oil the chain, and his suggestion is that you should try to get in touch with someone directly from stihl about your saw. Wishing you the best of luck with it. The 170/180 series saws really aren't bad machines. I've got a ms170 that seems to have 9 lives!

*edit;, almost forgot one-make sure that the chain matches the bar and sprocket, although he said that you would've likely had trouble right from the start if they didn't match up.


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## In The Weeds (May 27, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> I use the brake when the conditions dictate it (= not very often) - *just remember to hit the trigger as soon as the saw starts, and it will go down to idle.* and the brake won't do any harm. Then you can move the brake handle back, to release the brake, and save the clutch bearing from wear.....



This sounds to me like a very probable explanation as to what happened now that I think about all the information involved.


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## a. palmer jr. (May 27, 2012)

One thing I might mention to you to prevent further damage: If you take the clutch off that saw yourself do NOT use a piston stop to hold the motor still so you can unscrew the clutch...use a piece of rope inserted into the spark plug hole. Someone used a piston stop on my 180 and put a hole through the piston. Pistons on these saws are too thin to use a stop.


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## Somesawguy (Jun 6, 2012)

Bump. Did we ever figure out what happened here?


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## SilverKing (Jun 6, 2012)

I have a little 180 Stihl I use a good bit.My only gripe is the non adjustable carb.Its fast for its size,and ive cut some stuff way to big for it.I just really cant figure out why you would actually "use" the chain brake.If your chain turns when idling,set the idle speed down.A chain brake has probably me a few times,lets hope ya never need one.


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## SS396driver (Jun 6, 2012)

like to know what became of this also. But my rule of thump I don't buy power equipment from places that seal toilets and nuts and bolts .


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 12, 2012)

*Alright..got some pics...Is this thing ruined?*

View attachment 241521
View attachment 241523
View attachment 241524
View attachment 241526
View attachment 241527


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 12, 2012)

*More pics..*

View attachment 241528
View attachment 241529



This is all the further I broke it down since I don't know what I am doing. If you guys think I need to break it down more and take more pics, please let me know.


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## axlr8 (Jun 12, 2012)

im calling a brake issue....that drum is RAINBOW for gods sake!


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 12, 2012)

*Alright..got some pics...Is this thing ruined?*





































This is all the further I broke it down since I don't know what I am doing. If you guys think I need to break it down more and take more pics, please let me know.

Thanks manyhobies for having the shortcut to learning this pic thing in your signature!! :msp_thumbup:


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 12, 2012)

I don't know if it matters but the brake works fine as far as distinctively clicking on and off and stopping the drum.


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## blsnelling (Jun 12, 2012)

That's definately from running the saw with the brake on.


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## H 2 H (Jun 12, 2012)

Chain brake got a little warm


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## H 2 H (Jun 12, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> That's definately from running the saw with the brake on.



I wonder how long the brake was on :bang:


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## blsnelling (Jun 12, 2012)

I haven't followed the entire thread, but why replace the case? Looks to me like you could put a new clutch drum bearing on it and go back to work.


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## axlr8 (Jun 12, 2012)

your gonna need a new clutch assy, new drum, new drum bearing, new brake band, and need to clean that crap that you burnt off.....Id say.....you need to find a chainsaw safety class nearby, and attend it.. they will show you the ins and outs of the new chainsaws. Please....before you hurt yourself...


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## Roll Tide (Jun 12, 2012)

Oh no its not the brake, that saw is junk!!! Im kidding id say for atleast a min or two.


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 12, 2012)

rolltide said:


> Oh no its not the brake, that saw is junk!!! Im kidding id say for atleast a min or two.



haha...I was waiting to see what you were going to say.....I think you went easy though for what you probably wanted to say..:hmm3grin2orange:



axlr8 said:


> you need to find a chainsaw safety class nearby, and attend it.. they will show you the ins and outs of the new chainsaws. Please....before you hurt yourself...



yes....a 30 second class that says....do not touch a hand brake under any circumstances....what kind of idiot would set the saw on the ground with the brake on (obviously me..because i did), then pick it up, turn off brake and then cut wood and while cutting wood..saw started smoking.


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## Roll Tide (Jun 12, 2012)

Man no reason for me to give you a hard time i said what i felt at the begining of this thread. We all live and learn bud just dont be so quick to place the blame on something else unless first you know it was not your error that caused the problem.


FreeFlowin said:


> haha...I was waiting to see what you were going to say.....I think you went easy though for what you probably wanted to say..:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> 
> yes....a 30 second class that says....do not touch a hand brake under any circumstances....what kind of idiot would set the saw on the ground with the brake on (obviously me..because i did), then pick it up, turn off brake and then cut wood and while cutting wood..saw started smoking.


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## rupedoggy (Jun 12, 2012)

Does anyone remember the thread where a guy had several cracked cases on his Stihls? The man ran them with some kind of youth group if I recall. He had the same looking chain brake on his saws and had disconnected them for some reason. Was it because of brakes dragging? Anyway he was not happy with that style Stihl brake.


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## Chris-PA (Jun 12, 2012)

I still don't get it. That weeny little engine at high idle roasted the clutch?


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## Roll Tide (Jun 12, 2012)

chain brake set and i think at high idle, yes ive seen them completly melt the clutch cover.


WoodHeatWarrior said:


> I still don't get it. That weeny little engine at high idle roasted the clutch?


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 12, 2012)

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/182851.htm

This thread makes it seem like a few people set it to walk around.


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## blsnelling (Jun 12, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/182851.htm
> 
> This thread makes it seem like a few people set it to walk around.



It won't hurt a think if it's idling. Your saw had to be well above idle to engage the clutch and get it hot like that.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 12, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> That's definately from running the saw with the brake on.



But would the chainbrake cause the clutch drum to be pulled to one side? Look at this bearing? IMO it looks like the chain was too tight







Wouldn't the whole brake band be hot thus melting the all of the plastic instead of the plastic where the clutch drum would be pulled if the chain was too tight?

I'd say: Put the saw back together. Adjust the chain so when pulled way from the bar you can see the bottom of the drive links. (pulling on the chain in the middle of the bar). LET HER BUCK! Should be good to go with a new bearing.


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## tallfarmboy (Jun 12, 2012)

I would blame it on the flippy caps.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 12, 2012)

tallfarmboy said:


> I would blame it on the flippy caps.



Nice flow with the topic!


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## Vibes (Jun 13, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Nice flow with the topic!



Yea and while we're on topic. Those saws are junk!!!


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## Somesawguy (Jun 13, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> This is all the further I broke it down since I don't know what I am doing. If you guys think I need to break it down more and take more pics, please let me know.
> 
> Thanks manyhobies for having the shortcut to learning this pic thing in your signature!! :msp_thumbup:




Is it just me or does it look like the spring in the top-right is stretched? Would a bad clutch spring cause this? I would think it would make the chain spin, but if the chain was tight, and the clutch spring was bad, it would heat up without moving the chain.


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## Roll Tide (Jun 13, 2012)

Looks normal to me .


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## Chris-PA (Jun 13, 2012)

rolltide said:


> chain brake set and i think at high idle, yes ive seen them completly melt the clutch cover.


I guess if the clutch is not engaged enough to stall it out it will put a lot of heat into it. I don't use the brake for starting, or much at all, but I have heard it load the engine. And if you can hear it load the engine and it's still running that energy is going into the clutch.


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## a. palmer jr. (Jun 13, 2012)

Vibes said:


> Yea and while we're on topic. Those saws are junk!!!



Isn't that the saw that's having all the trouble with the non adjustable carburetor, also? I assume the 180 has the same one as the 018.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 13, 2012)

Somesawguy said:


> Is it just me or does it look like the spring in the top-right is stretched? Would a bad clutch spring cause this? I would think it would make the chain spin, but if the chain was tight, and the clutch spring was bad, it would heat up without moving the chain.



Good catch! It does look like it's stretched.


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

It is bent.

View attachment 241576


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

Causing it to rub and get hot.


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## dancan (Jun 13, 2012)

I'll have to say ''Go Fish !''
Unless it's an updated brakeband Fish is on the money .


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## Somesawguy (Jun 13, 2012)

Are you talking about that bend at the top where it starts to go to the back of the case?


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

The brakeband is bent at the top right.


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 13, 2012)

I thought I noticed now....so I guess after the fact, but when you turn the chain sprocket by hand, it turns smoothly and then at one point seems to have just a slight friction and then you have to apply just a little more force to keep it turning, and it's at the same spot because it does it every revolution.


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 13, 2012)

Fish said:


> The brakeband is bent at the top right.




A new one looks pretty straight to me, I wonder how I did that?

STIHL Chainsaw Brake Band 017 018 020 021 023 025 MS C | eBay


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## a. palmer jr. (Jun 13, 2012)

I finally got my 018 running after several days of head scratching. I soaked the non-adjustable carburetor overnight, put a new kit in it and poked a wire through the impulse hole until it felt clear. I flooded it to start with but after a while it roared to life and sounded pretty good. I'll set it in with my running saws now.


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## Somesawguy (Jun 13, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> I thought I noticed now....so I guess after the fact, but when you turn the chain sprocket by hand, it turns smoothly and then at one point seems to have just a slight friction and then you have to apply just a little more force to keep it turning, and it's at the same spot because it does it every revolution.



If that's the case, then the drum is warped or bent in that spot. I think if you put a new brake, clutch,drum, and bearing in there, you'd be good to go. Everything should turn smoothly if the brake is off. 

One of the springs in the clutch looks a little funky, but if it's turning smoothly, it should be ok. 

You would have had to jam a screwdriver or something in there to damage the drum. Maybe you got a saw made on a Friday. 

It's really too bad the dealer wouldn't even look at it, but at least there is some help here. :msp_thumbsup:


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 13, 2012)

Fish said:


> The brakeband is bent at the top right.



Do you think that would be covered under warranty?


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 13, 2012)

Somesawguy said:


> If that's the case, then the drum is warped or bent in that spot. I think if you put a new brake, clutch,drum, and bearing in there, you'd be good to go. Everything should turn smoothly if the brake is off.
> 
> One of the springs in the clutch looks a little funky, but if it's turning smoothly, it should be ok.
> 
> ...



haha...way more helpful...way more knowledgable then the local guy and you guys aren't trying to charge me $49 per half hour just to look at the brand new saw you just sold me :kilt:


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## dancan (Jun 13, 2012)

You might want to check warranty and a call to your contact person a Stihl and hope they see the light , if it's a no go , at least get your repair stuff from Fish .


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## axlr8 (Jun 13, 2012)

*Clutch springs....*

To the posters here who noticed the clutch spring that is stretched..... The reason that happens is because the clutch and drum were hanging up somehow.....and when that happens it produces heat....LOTS OF HEAT.....and when you apply a lot of heat to a tempered spring (clutch spring) it loses temper (and tension) and therefore it would result in a hanging clutch!

We had a wildthang come into the shop a week or two ago, and it wouldnt start....It felt as if it had a load on it while recoil was engaged.... So we poppedoff the drum and clutch and it fired up (we quickly ended its roar...) and the clutch spring was TOAST! so we ordered a new clutch, drum, and bearing (EPAY) and then It was good to go!

.....why fix a wild thing?! I have no clue.......


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

It is very possible that it was assembled like that at the factory, and you may have a valid claim, but you need to call your Stihl dist. rep,
and refer him to this thread.


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

Call Intermountain Stihl 303-340-2787

Talk to your area rep. Tell him the story, then tell him you started this thread on Arboristsite, and posted pics. And we saw the bent chain
brake strap, and said that likely caused the overheating. Get his name, heck I may call him.


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## Roll Tide (Jun 13, 2012)

Wow nice call on the band.


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## oldmar (Jun 13, 2012)

Fish said:


> Causing it to rub and get hot.




That's what she said.


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## 7sleeper (Jun 13, 2012)

oldmar said:


> That's what she said.



:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

7


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## 7sleeper (Jun 13, 2012)

I would like to ask if I understood the last posts correctly? Since the brakeband was bent (red circle) it started rubbing the clutch at this area (blue circle) where the most heat was obviously present and caused the burning here instead of all around the brakeband. Which would have been the case if the OP had been running the saw with the brake activated. 

You just have to love AS (this time Fish) for finding out these little tricky things that are easily overseen! 

View attachment 241593







Which can be seen in this photo if you look closely. Or if you have the eyes of a Fish!  It seems to be the only area where the breakband is touching the drum.









7


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

Yes, I cannot come up with a scenario how the O.P. could have caused this problem, unless he took his brand new saw apart, bent the strap, and re-assembled it before he used it...............

Of course his neighbor may be a "Mentalist", and got tired of bending spoons..........


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

FreeFlowin, pm me your name and address. I'll call the Stihl rep and/or techs.


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## Somesawguy (Jun 13, 2012)

Fish said:


> Yes, I cannot come up with a scenario how the O.P. could have caused this problem, unless he took his brand new saw apart, bent the strap, and re-assembled it before he used it...............
> 
> Of course his neighbor may be a "Mentalist", and got tired of bending spoons..........



It's easy once you realize "there is no spoon". :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Chris-PA (Jun 13, 2012)

Now this explanation makes more sense. That kink essentially shortens the brake band.


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## dancan (Jun 13, 2012)

Fish said:


> FreeFlowin, pm me your name and address. I'll call the Stihl rep and/or techs.



Aren't you persona non grata with Stihl is is that now water under the bridge ?


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

Well my local distributor kind of like the fact that I have bought 500 plus units in the last several years. Their only beef with me is why I don't remove the serial numbers from the crankcases.

The damage to that saw looks real minor, what did they say that it needed? I read your p.m. about Stihl offering to "Goodwill" you the parts,
but you would have to pay labor. I tried calling this Eric Kersley, but he was busy on another line, the operator at intermountain Stihl said he handles most of the calls.
I am considered semi-retired Stihl tech at a couple of local dealerships, will come in and run the shop when the owner wants to run off to
Dollywood or something.
It looks to me that if you straighten the band, pop in a new bearing, it should be OK? That brown plastic is superficial and shouldn't affect anything.
Let me know here on the thread. I won't reveal anything about you, but this should stay out on the open forum. Heck, throw the saw body in a box and mail it to me, I 'll take care of it. I have all the parts you may need on the shelf, Ace hardware would likely charge $100
labor.


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## showrguy (Jun 13, 2012)

Fish said:


> Well my local distributor kind of like the fact that I have bought 500 plus units in the last several years. Their only beef with me is why I don't remove the serial numbers from the crankcases.
> 
> The damage to that saw looks real minor, what did they say that it needed? I read your p.m. about Stihl offering to "Goodwill" you the parts,
> but you would have to pay labor. I tried calling this Eric Kersley, but he was busy on another line, the operator at intermountain Stihl said he handles most of the calls.
> ...



yer a good man fish !!


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## hiluxxulih (Jun 13, 2012)

It pains me to say since I am a certified Stihl lover but that looks like a factory defect , I highly doubt the OP pulled that cover off and bent the brake band , as to heat bending the brake band I am no thermal engineer but I think Stihl should replace the saw .


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 13, 2012)

7sleeper said:


> I would like to ask if I understood the last posts correctly? Since the brakeband was bent (red circle) it started rubbing the clutch at this area (blue circle) where the most heat was obviously present and caused the burning here instead of all around the brakeband. Which would have been the case if the OP had been running the saw with the brake activated.
> 
> You just have to love AS (this time Fish) for finding out these little tricky things that are easily overseen!
> 
> ...





Fish said:


> *Yes, I cannot come up with a scenario how the O.P. could have caused this problem,* unless he took his brand new saw apart, bent the strap, and re-assembled it before he used it.........................





WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Now this explanation makes more sense. *That kink essentially shortens the brake band.*





Fish said:


> .....
> *The damage to that saw looks real minor,* what did they say that it needed? I read your p.m. about Stihl offering to "Goodwill" you the parts,
> but you would have to pay labor. I tried calling this Eric Kersley, but he was busy on another line, the operator at intermountain Stihl said he handles most of the calls.
> ........
> ...





showrguy said:


> *yer a good man fish !!*



Yep! Good guy!

*You know......I think Free should get a new MS180 FREE! (extra chain or two some 2 stroke oil and a Stihl HAT!)* And the dealership get a little talking to! What did they look at or do to charge him $50.00? *<---REFUND!* They certainly didn't check the brake band! Is there any reason he should have to own a damaged saw? Even cosmetic damage?

Why did the bearing melt down? Is there still a chance the chain was too tight?

The clutch shoes and drum, are they normally that color or were they blued with heat?

OP...Nice job taking clear up close pics!


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 13, 2012)

hiluxxulih said:


> It pains me to say since I am a certified Stihl lover but that looks like a factory defect , I highly doubt the OP pulled that cover off and bent the brake band , *as to heat bending the brake band* I am no thermal engineer but I think Stihl should replace the saw .



I don't believe the heat bent the brake band. I believe the band was bent which caused the heat. (the brake was on a little bit all of the time)

Yes...new saw time!


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Yep! Good guy!
> 
> *You know......I think Free should get a new MS180 FREE! (extra chain or two some 2 stroke oil and a Stihl HAT!)* And the dealership get a little talking to! What did they look at or do to charge him $50.00? *<---REFUND!* They certainly didn't check the brake band! Is there any reason he should have to own a damaged saw? Even cosmetic damage?
> 
> ...



I agree, but am powerless unless I can talk to this Eric Kersley, but their opinion of the guys in the trenches is always low. I shot a message to Stihlusa, they should look at this. The guys at Bryan Equip have absolutely no dog in this fight, so it will be up to you guys!!!
Call intermountain Stihl NOW!!!! Ask for Eric Kersley!!!!!!! Call before he goes home!!!! Let them know the internet is a powerful tool they 
need to acknowledge!!!!

Intermountain Stihl
303-340-2787

Call now!!!!!!

BEFORE HE GOES HOME TONIGHT!!!!!!


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

Dislexics!!!!!!!


"untie!!!!!!!!!!"


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

We'll call it, "The night the lights went out in Colorado"..............


Seriously guys, call him, ask for the warranty/tech dept. It would do them some good to get a little web exposure and eat some crow.....


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

Let them know why they are afraid of the dark!!!!!!!

Sorry, another movie quote..........


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## Fish (Jun 13, 2012)

They are still open another hour!!!!


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 13, 2012)

There's enough information here. If Free wants follow up, contact Stihl, and point them to this thread.

I wonder if saw manufacturers read forum like this? One would thing if might be a good idea.


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## SilverKing (Jun 13, 2012)

still gotta stand by the little 180.For a $200 saw,its hard to beat.Used mine some today.Its about a year old, been abused and over used,and still runs like new.As far as Stihl dealers go,I did buy a brand new 280 a couple years ago.Crank seals leaked from day one.Went back to the dealer and they didnt want to help.One call directly to Stihl and the problem was solved,through the same dealer,although I was without my saw for 2 weeks.I think Stihl is top notch in that department,at least in my experience


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## JEFBO (Jun 14, 2012)

*nice find*



Fish said:


> It is bent.
> 
> View attachment 241576





Nice find, I had to go back and forth to finally notice the difference.:msp_thumbsup:


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## JEFBO (Jun 14, 2012)

*New dealer*

I think I would find a new dealer to work with unless they made it right with me.
but it may not be worth the trouble. you will still have future encounters. my dealer
(seyberts implements) would never do that to me on a brand new saw. might be from
the lack of saw experience that swayed them to think it was your fault though.

jeff


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 14, 2012)

Fish said:


> Call intermountain Stihl NOW!!!! .........Let them know the internet is a powerful tool they
> need to acknowledge!!!!



I think the most interesting part in this experience of talking to this Stihl guy is that he works opposite of law, you are guilty until proven innocent. He is also like a professional debater and what I've noticed by talking to him twice now, he tries to catch you saying ANYTHING that he can use against you. As soon as I mentioned this site, he was lighting quick to ask me if I was an arborist. He does not believe for a second Stihl might make a mistake and even after the pics, says it's unlikely it was Stihls fault. 

I don't care as much as I did two weeks ago now that I know you guys say regardless of anything it will be easy to fix. But the internet is powerful and I love that we can use it to hold companies accountable. The Arab spring was basically brought on by the internet, it's powerful! I feel bad for all the people screwed over without it. I just like the thought of showing that a company like Stihl just might still have defects from time to time and make a crap product every once in a while. I grew up a Chevy guy, but I'm not too ignorant or oblivious to admit they have made their fare share of crap vehicles, and still do. But with this saw, I didn't know what was going on, Fish caught the brake band.



JEFBO said:


> I think I would find a new dealer to work with unless they made it right with me.
> but it may not be worth the trouble.


I consider this Ace guy I've dealt with to be pretty worthless and have horrible customer service. This store will probably be dead to me after all of this. Honestly though, going to all the bigger stores in town, I think customer service on a whole has went to ####. These big stores are all cutting back on hiring anyone so it is impossible to find anyone other then cashiers to give you help. This was the same thing at Cabelas when I worked there in college. Before when they were family owned we had lots of help and great customer service, after they went public they stopped hiring and keep less then the most minimal staff they can...that store sucks now IMHO.
All the box stores here sell Stihl or Husky, and all their lower end stuff, it is North Dakota after all and we are not known for all of our trees. Menards sells some Efco. There is only one small engine shop in town and they carry Echo as their saws. I would much rather give the little guy the business. The biggest he sells is the 450 I believe. I asked about the 20" 600P out of curiosity and he said it would be $569+ tax plus shipping fees since he doesn't stock it normally. 

At the end of the day, all I know is with my limited time off from work, I'm not making much headway getting these two trees cleared out like I wanted to!!! :chainsawguy:
http://www.arboristsite.com/homeowner-helper-forum/201974.htm


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## blsnelling (Jun 14, 2012)

So, did you call the Stihl guy that Fish said to? You're going to have to go above the dealers head. I would settle for nothing less than all affected parts being replaced. They should just hand you another new saw.


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 14, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Do, did you call the Stihl guy that Fish said to? You're going to have to go above the dealers head. I would settle for nothing less than all affected parts being replaced. They should just hand you another new saw.



Yeah, I talked to the Stihl warranty guy in Denver. He said he would "good will" parts but I have to pay labor. He said I can't do it myself and if I try to take it anywhere else or do it myself, he won't give me the parts. He said it's not warranty but will be a nice guy and give me parts basically.


----------



## Somesawguy (Jun 14, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> Yeah, I talked to the Stihl warranty guy in Denver. He said he would "good will" parts but I have to pay labor. He said I can't do it myself and if I try to take it anywhere else or do it myself, he won't give me the parts. He said it's not warranty but will be a nice guy and give me parts basically.



If he won't give you the parts without sending them to a dealer, then it's not worth it. That's not really good will unless they are willing to pay for the installation as well.

If it were me, I'd probably bend the band back to straight, and put a new bearing in it. That's probably all you really need if the springs are ok.


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## striperswaper (Jun 14, 2012)

so stihl knows of this site and thread? they still will not make good on their defect? can you take it up a level from the numb nutt
you talked to? Fish any suggestions? think of all the guys who buy and use saws reading this from all over the country and world going to their local husky dealers....


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## striperswaper (Jun 14, 2012)

so stihl knows of this site and thread? they still will not make good on their defect? can you take it up a level from the numb nutt
you talked to? Fish any suggestions? think of all the guys who buy and use saws reading this from all over the country and world going to their local husky dealers....


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## 7sleeper (Jun 14, 2012)

I can just imagine some poor assembly line fellow run out of the right break band an bend one, from a larger saw, so that it fits. 

Voila run's great. 

7


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## Somesawguy (Jun 14, 2012)

7sleeper said:


> I can just imagine some poor assembly line fellow run out of the right break band an bend one, from a larger saw, so that it fits.
> 
> Voila run's great.
> 
> 7



That wouldn't surprise me one bit. 

Stihl should still make good on it.


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## Vibes (Jun 14, 2012)

One question, Where's Thall? 

I had a similar experiance with a Stihl dealer in my area 25 years ago, and when I tried the other dealer for some help, he was a bigger tool than the first guy. In the meantime my old man bought an Olympic and I bought a Poulan and thats kind of where my brand loyalty went.

I don't know anything about this Menards place, but Efco's are real good machines. So are the Echo's


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## Fish (Jun 14, 2012)

Vibes said:


> One question, Where's Thall?
> 
> I had a similar experiance with a Stihl dealer in my area 25 years ago, and when I tried the other dealer for some help, he was a bigger tool than the first guy. In the meantime my old man bought an Olympic and I bought a Poulan and thats kind of where my brand loyalty went.
> 
> I don't know anything about this Menards place, but Efco's are real good machines. So are the Echo's



Are you summoning the "Cracken"????

What about Lakeside? He is back in a limited capacity.......

My experience with the factory/distributor guys, is that have absolutely no respect forthe techs atthe dealers, and/or especially online.
Online exposure is usually frowned upon.....

I called up to Bryan 5 or so years ago with a question about the points tools forthe 031/028/041..... The kid put me on hold fourteen minutes, then came back on telling me that I need to sell the customer a new saw!!!!


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 14, 2012)

FreeFlowin just found a little old farm co-op that sells Husky 35 miles down the road. I went there to BS with them and see what they had. They are the only place in this half of the state to carry both regular and XP models in stock, and he sells them discounted under MSRP just to get the business going a little since they are new to it. Since they are the good old farmer types that have time to BS you about their saws, I think I just found where my loyalty is going to.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 14, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> FreeFlowin just found a little old farm co-op that sells Husky 35 miles down the road. I went there to BS with them and see what they had. They are the only place in this half of the state to carry both regular and XP models in stock, and he sells them discounted under MSRP just to get the business going a little since they are new to it. Since they are the good old farmer types that have time to BS you about their saws, I think I just found where my loyalty is going to.



Free

Did you get that bearing in the link I sent you? If Stihl doesn't help you out, just put a new bearing on that thing, straighten the brake band, make sure everything is spinning without binding and cut some wood. That little 180 will be a nice lite weight saw to have around (no thanks to Stihl!)


----------



## Fish (Jun 14, 2012)

Fish said:


> Well my local distributor kind of like the fact that I have bought 500 plus units in the last several years. Their only beef with me is why I don't remove the serial numbers from the crankcases.
> 
> The damage to that saw looks real minor, what did they say that it needed? I read your p.m. about Stihl offering to "Goodwill" you the parts,
> but you would have to pay labor. I tried calling this Eric Kersley, but he was busy on another line, the operator at intermountain Stihl said he handles most of the calls.
> ...



Yeah, whatever someone said!!!!


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 14, 2012)

manyhobies said:


> Free
> 
> Did you get that bearing in the link I sent you? If Stihl doesn't help you out, just put a new bearing on that thing, straighten the brake band, make sure everything is spinning without binding and cut some wood. That little 180 will be a nice lite weight saw to have around (no thanks to Stihl!)



No I haven't ordered it yet. I was still waiting to see how this thing played out, I have still been meaning to talk to the GM of Ace Hardware.


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 14, 2012)

Fish said:


> Yeah, whatever someone said!!!!



haha .... touche good sir


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## Umbellularia (Jun 15, 2012)

Fish said:


> Yes, I cannot come up with a scenario how the O.P. could have caused this problem, unless he took his brand new saw apart, bent the strap, and re-assembled it before he used it...............



How about this scenario:

The OP is cutting with the saw. Engine revs are up. The brake lever/guard gets bumped - enough to apply the brake, but not enough to latch in the engaged position. As the brake engages, it self amplifies the braking force (not unlike auto drum brakes), wrapping the brake band clockwise around the drum, and "pushing" the end forward. Next, before the engine rpms drop appreciably, the force on the brake lever/guard goes away. The brake linkage lever (1128-160-5000) rotates to release the brake band, but instead of just releasing tension, it ends up pushing against the end of the brake band. At that instant, compressed by force from both directions, the brake band bends and the rest is history... (Maybe there's even a burr on the linkage lever preventing a smooth release.)

The force on the brake lever/guard doesn't have to be from the OP's arm. It could be from a branch that's near the one being cut. At various times I've been cutting (perhaps "dogged in") and it turns out that as the powerhead rotates, there's something in the way that starts applying the brake. This scenario should *not* cause the saw to fail!


Several posters have mentioned bending the brake band flat. I'd replace it. I say that 'cause the brake band on my 026 broke (in a similar area as the OP's bend) from metal fatigue. The E-clip holding the linkage lever in place on its pivot had fallen off. This let the lever walk outward causing the band to be applied in a spiral. Eventually, the sideways forces fatigued the band. (Of note, even after 17 years of use, there was no noticeable wear on my brake band.)


----------



## JEFBO (Jun 15, 2012)

Umbellularia said:


> How about this scenario:
> 
> The OP is cutting with the saw. Engine revs are up. The brake lever/guard gets bumped - enough to apply the brake, but not enough to latch in the engaged position. As the brake engages, it self amplifies the braking force (not unlike auto drum brakes), wrapping the brake band clockwise around the drum, and "pushing" the end forward. Next, before the engine rpms drop appreciably, the force on the brake lever/guard goes away. The brake linkage lever (1128-160-5000) rotates to release the brake band, but instead of just releasing tension, it ends up pushing against the end of the brake band. At that instant, compressed by force from both directions, the brake band bends and the rest is history... (Maybe there's even a burr on the linkage lever preventing a smooth release.)
> 
> ...






The OP said that this is a new saw. So its not metal fatigue. 
and using the brake will not cause it to bend. and i have 
never been able to get a brake half applied, it snappes in
to position. My opinion is someone worked on it or was 
assembled this way. Things like this do happen. 

Jeff


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## 7sleeper (Jun 15, 2012)

Umbellularia said:


> How about this scenario:
> 
> The OP is cutting with the saw. Engine revs are up. The brake lever/guard gets bumped - enough to apply the brake, but not enough to latch in the engaged position. As the brake engages, it self amplifies the braking force (not unlike auto drum brakes), wrapping the brake band clockwise around the drum, and "pushing" the end forward. Next, before the engine rpms drop appreciably, the force on the brake lever/guard goes away. The brake linkage lever (1128-160-5000) rotates to release the brake band, but instead of just releasing tension, it ends up pushing against the end of the brake band. At that instant, compressed by force from both directions, the brake band bends and the rest is history... (Maybe there's even a burr on the linkage lever preventing a smooth release.)
> 
> ...



I also find this theory very vague at best. The reason to me is that the amount of saws sold every year and the experience of this site this problem would have not been genuine to FreeFlowin. This is the first time I have ever heard or seen a problem like this in a brand new saw. Although I am by no means an authority. I can only say that I also follow german chainsaw threads and there has never been a similar problem described that I am aware of. 
Breakband technology is so similar across all manufactures that the amount of saws sold I doubt this could be a first. We all expect chinese products to be junk but even from those I have never heard of a failure like this. Although probably these are disposed of without further inspection. But I would expect some fellow, if this happened to him, to employ a lawer a make a "bundle" out of it because of "emotional trauma". So someone would have read about it in the local newspaper or seen the story on TV.
It would be interesting to hear what Thall or Lakeside or Fish had to say about this because they are in my opionion Stihl authorities.

7


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## blsnelling (Jun 15, 2012)

So the dealer wants to be a jerk? If you bought it with a credit card, simply return it and dispute the charge. Then the burden of proof would be on them to prove it's not defective. We all know that's not the case.


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## Vibes (Jun 15, 2012)

7sleeper said:


> I also find this theory very vague at best. The reason to me is that the amount of saws sold every year and the experience of this site this problem would have not been genuine to FreeFlowin. This is the first time I have ever heard or seen a problem like this in a brand new saw. Although I am by no means an authority. I can only say that I also follow german chainsaw threads and there has never been a similar problem described that I am aware of.
> Breakband technology is so similar across all manufactures that the amount of saws sold I doubt this could be a first. We all expect chinese products to be junk but even from those I have never heard of a failure like this. Although probably these are disposed of without further inspection. But I would expect some fellow, if this happened to him, to employ a lawer a make a "bundle" out of it because of "emotional trauma". So someone would have read about it in the local newspaper or seen the story on TV.
> It would be interesting to hear what Thall or Lakeside or Fish had to say about this because they are in my opionion Stihl authorities.
> 
> 7



Contrary to what you may hear in Austria about the U,S legal system, no lawyer's gonna waste 5 minutes filing a case for a $200 chainsaw where the damage estimate is $100. If the guy wacked his hand off due to some percieved design flaw then he would look into it.


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## 7sleeper (Jun 15, 2012)

Vibes said:


> Contrary to what you may hear in Austria about the U,S legal system, no lawyer's gonna waste 5 minutes filing a case for a $200 chainsaw where the damage estimate is $100. If the guy wacked his hand off due to some percieved design flaw then he would look into it.



Maybe he burnt his hand ....?! :hmm3grin2orange:

7


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## Fish (Jun 15, 2012)

I think that there has been enough pain and sufferring to all of us over this little saw to warrant a class action suit from our site lawyer "Spacemule"!!!!


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## Saw Dr. (Jun 15, 2012)

Here is the scenario I suggest. Buddy or family of Stihl dealer comes in asking for a 180/018 brake band. Dealer does not have one in stock. Said customer whines about how they have the saw apart and need it right now. Shop owner knows it might come up again at church, or wherever so decides to pull the band from a new saw and replace it later. Replacement band comes in and new guy tries to install it. New guy cannot get the front end hooked, and takes two pairs of needle nose pliers to bend it in the right direction and get over the "claw" that pulls the brake band. Once the new saw is "complete," it is put back on the shelf for sale. FreeFlowin buys said saw, and it melts down.

Not saying that the manufacturer cannot have defects. Just saying that I have seen the local Stihl guy pull parts off new items quite a bit to get folks back operating. I have a feeling someone at that ACE store knows what _really_ happened to that saw.


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## Chris-PA (Jun 15, 2012)

I think it was quarks. One of them hit the brake band during assembly and caused it to beam into another dimension for a moment - a dimension where everything is the same except Stihl makes cheap little plastic homeowner saws that don't have much profit margin. In that moment it was damaged, and so when it returned it got put into this saw. Now we all know it's completely impossible for this to have happened in this universe, because Stihl is German and it is genetically impossible for them to make an assembly error or produce a defective product. 

Honestly, the twists and turns people take to avoid the obvious........


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 15, 2012)

Saw Dr. said:


> Here is the scenario I suggest. Buddy or family of Stihl dealer comes in asking for a 180/018 brake band. Dealer does not have one in stock. Said customer whines about how they have the saw apart and need it right now. Shop owner knows it might come up again at church, or wherever so decides to pull the band from a new saw and replace it later. Replacement band comes in and new guy tries to install it. New guy cannot get the front end hooked, and takes two pairs of needle nose pliers to bend it in the right direction and get over the "claw" that pulls the brake band. Once the new saw is "complete," it is put back on the shelf for sale. FreeFlowin buys said saw, and it melts down.
> 
> Not saying that the manufacturer cannot have defects. Just saying that I have seen the local Stihl guy pull parts off new items quite a bit to get folks back operating. I have a feeling someone at that ACE store knows what _really_ happened to that saw.



I could buy that scenario easily too :check:


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## JEFBO (Jun 16, 2012)

Saw Dr. said:


> Here is the scenario I suggest. Buddy or family of Stihl dealer comes in asking for a 180/018 brake band. Dealer does not have one in stock. Said customer whines about how they have the saw apart and need it right now. Shop owner knows it might come up again at church, or wherever so decides to pull the band from a new saw and replace it later. Replacement band comes in and new guy tries to install it. New guy cannot get the front end hooked, and takes two pairs of needle nose pliers to bend it in the right direction and get over the "claw" that pulls the brake band. Once the new saw is "complete," it is put back on the shelf for sale. FreeFlowin buys said saw, and it melts down.
> 
> Not saying that the manufacturer cannot have defects. Just saying that I have seen the local Stihl guy pull parts off new items quite a bit to get folks back operating. I have a feeling someone at that ACE store knows what _really_ happened to that saw.





Could be


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## Fish (Jun 16, 2012)

I have parted out hundreds of brand new saws and trimmers, believe me, I have seen many things done wrong on the assembly line.


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## FreeFlowin (Jun 16, 2012)

Fish said:


> I have parted out hundreds of brand new saws and trimmers, *believe me, I have seen many things done wrong on the assembly line.*



But remember, Stihl warranty guy said the saws get checked at three different points so he completely doubts that any defect could occur! :dunno:


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## 7sleeper (Jun 16, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> But remember, Stihl warranty guy said the saws get checked at three different points so he completely doubts that any defect could occur! :dunno:



Just one question: How many people looked here at the saw before someone detected the defect?

7


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## opinion (Jun 16, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> But remember, Stihl warranty guy said the saws get checked at three different points so he completely doubts that any defect could occur! :dunno:



Who cares what he saids. Those guys at the distributors are clueless tools. Precision German engineering and quality control is simply a myth. People who work with German companies know this. But the consumer perception of German quality is what keeps me in business.

Take the saw to a dealer that wants to help and let them warranty it. Call all the shops in your area and explain your situation.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 16, 2012)

7sleeper said:


> Just one question: How many people looked here at the saw before someone detected the defect?
> 
> 7



Just one question: How many people looked here at the saw before someone detected the defect? <---------CLICK LIKE *IF YOU DIDN'T * SEE THE BENT BRAKE BAND!

I didn't see it before *Mr. Stihl Fish* pointed it out!


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## slls (Jun 16, 2012)

It bent because of heat expansion, the coil tried to expand, no place to go so it bent.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 16, 2012)

slls said:


> It bent because of heat expansion, the coil tried to expand, no place to go so it bent.



Interesting thought. But, why did the coil get hot in the first place? Wouldn't the whole brake area be black if the brake was on to cause the heat in the first place?


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## 7sleeper (Jun 16, 2012)

As I mentioned before there is no even heat distrubation around the breakband. All the marked areas(red) are close to the breakband, so if the breakband was evenly causing heat, why don't we see burning compared as the single burnt area(blue). 

View attachment 241918







7


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## Fish (Jun 16, 2012)

Well to prove the point, just straighten the brake band, and then it will not touch the drum. That should suffice on the cause of the meltdown,
of course he needs a new bearing. Heck, I'll mail him one free.....


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## kevin j (Jun 17, 2012)

why don't we see burning compared as the single burnt area(blue). 



Is this blue arrow spot close to the anchored end? Wrapped band brakes don't generate even forces all the way along,. They are what is termed 'self energizing, similar to an internal shoe brake. The forces at the moving/ handle end of the band add into the tension in the band, which puts more radial forces against the drum as you move along the band towards the fixed end. Higher radial forces create more braking force, which creates more tension, etc. The end near the handle has very little tension or radial force, and the end closest to the fixed anchor has the most tension and radial force and braking (and wear). The total braking force is the integral of all these things, and a wrap band brake force increases dramatically with the arc of the wrap and with the friction of band to drum. Doubling the length of the wrap is much more than doubling the amount of braking provided. 

Maybe a more familiar example to many here: A rope wrapped around a capstan winch is the same principle. a tug on the rope creates a lot more pull out the load end, because the operator pulling on the rope pulls the 'band' in against the winch and the torque of the winch creates pull in the rope, which pulls it in tighter, etc. In this case, the rope is acting a clutch, not a brake, but the concept is the same. 

The forces and heat will increase along the band from moving end to fixed anchor end. How the band heat gets radiated to the case depends on the case layout and distance from the hot band, and how it dissipates into the case as a heat sink., so maybe the one spot was the bad balance of heat in and heat out.


I think Fish has nailed this one cause and effect.


kcj


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## Mac-HD (Jul 6, 2012)

Hey, that was a very interesting thread. 

I picked up a used MS 180 C in the bay last week just for pruning, and was second-guessing my choice.
Now after reading all comments I think I made the right decision for that saw. My dad has been using stihls for close to 40 years and he never had an issue. 

Keep up the good work Fish.


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## a. palmer jr. (Jul 6, 2012)

Mac-HD said:


> Hey, that was a very interesting thread.
> 
> I picked up a used MS 180 C in the bay last week just for pruning, and was second-guessing my choice.
> Now after reading all comments I think I made the right decision for that saw. My dad has been using stihls for close to 40 years and he never had an issue.
> ...



I've had a couple of 180s and they're all right for small jobs trimming around the house, etc. but they're not like the older Stihls. If something breaks I guess they can be repaired though..


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## Fish (Jul 6, 2012)

slls said:


> It bent because of heat expansion, the coil tried to expand, no place to go so it bent.



How did this guy get all of this bad rep???


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## FreeFlowin (Sep 11, 2012)

*****Final Update******

Final Stihl warranty offer was to have everything warranted as far as parts, but had to pay labor....and the catch was I couldn't do it and it had to have everything brand new including cosmetics. I was quoted $130 to $150.

So with some wonderful advice from this website, I went ahead and bought the parts myself off ebay and Baileys and swapped out the worm gear, needle bearing, and brake band for $30. Greased the bearing and gear and the saw is running great. I have ran it for about 1-2 hours since being repaired and it works great. I am still convinced this POS was FUBAR from the get go. Now with the exact same chain tension, I can spin the chain by hand so so much easier and don't feel any slight friction. 

During this whole debacle I bought a Husky 346xp so that I could keep working around the house while waiting to resolve the 180C conflict. I went with the 346xp because I wanted a bigger 50 cc range saw, magnesium case, saw that will last for many many years (fingers crossed), and didn't want a Stihl. The local small farm dealer was selling them at a discount to try and get his new chainsaw business going. I have to say, even though the 180C is a homeowner cheap plastic box version of Stihls lineup, I can't believe how awesome a Husky is by comparison. Most specifically the dampers and spring anti-vibration system is just incredible. That 180C makes your hand tingle for an hour after using it, while the 346xp you can use for two hours and not feel a thing when you are done. Very easy to start as well, so well done to the members of this site again for great advice.


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## ckelp (Sep 11, 2012)

sorry it work out like that, i have one dealer 10mi from my house that i wounder how they keep there dealership privileges.. and on the other side of town in a crappy neighborhood there's a debar that will bend over backwards for you..

if it was my saw the dealer would need hemroid cream after i was done with them, did to dealership where i bought my wife's car:msp_ohmy:


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## a. palmer jr. (Sep 11, 2012)

Many dealers, not just saw dealers, love to sell you new stuff but aren't all that crazy about warranty work. That's one reason I seldom buy new and do my own maintenance.


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## barneyrb (Sep 11, 2012)

FreeFlowin said:


> Final Stihl warranty offer was to have everything warranted as far as parts, but had to pay labor....and the catch was I couldn't do it and it had to have everything brand new including cosmetics. I was quoted $130 to $150.
> 
> So with some wonderful advice from this website, I went ahead and bought the parts myself off ebay and Baileys and swapped out the worm gear, needle bearing, and brake band for $30. Greased the bearing and gear and the saw is running great. I have ran it for about 1-2 hours since being repaired and it works great. I am still convinced this POS was FUBAR from the get go. Now with the exact same chain tension, I can spin the chain by hand so so much easier and don't feel any slight friction.
> 
> During this whole debacle I bought a Husky 346xp so that I could keep working around the house while waiting to resolve the 180C conflict. I went with the 346xp because I wanted a bigger 50 cc range saw, magnesium case, saw that will last for many many years (fingers crossed), and didn't want a Stihl. The local small farm dealer was selling them at a discount to try and get his new chainsaw business going. I have to say, even though the 180C is a homeowner cheap plastic box version of Stihls lineup, I can't believe how awesome a Husky is by comparison. Most specifically the dampers and spring anti-vibration system is just incredible. That 180C makes your hand tingle for an hour after using it, while the 346xp you can use for two hours and not feel a thing when you are done. Very easy to start as well, so well done to the members of this site again for great advice.



Fish,

Send this post to your Stihl rep buddy and see how does he like us now.....


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## a. palmer jr. (Sep 11, 2012)

Kinda hope he's not comparing the Stihl homeowner saw to a 346XP...


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## MotorSeven (Sep 11, 2012)

Ahhh, in the end, Free now has (2) working saws, and another poor soul has fallen to saw addiction. Give him a year or two and he will be kicked out of the house and living in a "van down by the river" packed with 20+ saws...some vintage


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## griffonks (Sep 11, 2012)

So much for Stihl's customer service, questioning is one thing, being unreasonable is another. Usually I prefer going to an Ace Hardware over the big boxes, but that ND Ace is lousy at best. 

I'm glad the OP found a saw shop and brand he feels more comfortable with, and I'm glad I'm a member here because we care- thanks Fish!


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## Philip Wheelock (Dec 7, 2012)

THALL10326 said:


> Every single chainsaw I sell I make sure to ask the buyer if he understands how the brake works, 50% of the customers say they don't. When they leave with the saw they do for I explain it to them.



I sure didn't understand the chain brake when I bought an ms 210C from a friend a couple of years ago. No manual. I'm sure I was half way to cooking that thing before the light bulb went on in my head.


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## Wagnerwerks (Dec 7, 2012)

*Wow*

Just wasted a lot of time reading this whole thing. Lol. I feel bad for the op. I would not believe this whole thread and situation if I hadn't just met our local stihl rep 2 days ago and been told all of the new saw they make are @#*!. Straight out of his mouth. I actually had to "nicely" reprimand him for using the language he use to describe new stihl saws in front of my little boy. If I had bought a new stihl product and had this issue and known i was in the right, it would not have stopped at a partial refund. 

I don't care what brand it is...or how cheep it was to fix... I would have kept complaining until it was made right. 

I've worked for 2 large corporations as a manager and had to deal with lots of interesting higher ups in warranty situations. After a few calls, certain ones go on your speed dial and others are forgotten.


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