# echo ppt 265 es pole saw long term review vs stihl pole saws ht 75



## imagineero (Apr 22, 2013)

Hi all,
I thought I'd kick off a long term review of the echo ppt 265-es, as sort of a standalone review, but also slightly vs the stihl ht75. I run a full time tree service and have gone through half a dozen ht75's over the years as well as using 101's and 131s. Yesterday I bought my first echo pole saw / pole pruner or whatever you want to call them. I think you guys stateside seem to get a few other models (280, 300) where as here in aus the 265 seems to be the only one available. Lets start off with the manufacturer specs;

*Echo PPT 265 es*
weight 7.9kg
length 372cm
engine 25.4cc
output 0.9kw

*Stihl HT 75*
weight 7.3kg
length 385cm
engine 25.4cc
output 0.95kw

Here in aus, the stihl retails for $1,379(!) and the echo for $999, but the stihl can be had for about $1250 and the echo for about $900. As with most things, you guys stateside get either for about half price or less. Either saw can also take a hedging attachment, which are priced about the same for either model at the $500~$600 mark here in aus.

For no reason I can understand, nobody has ever made a decent pole saw. On the surface it wouldnt appear to be all that difficult, but there doesn't seem to be anywhere near the same level of competition in pole saws as there is in chainsaws. 

So lets start off with the power heads.







They're both roughly the same displacement, and equally durable if you read around. Both manufacturers lose points in my mind, because the 'feet' the pole saw sits on are about 1/3 the width of the powerhead in both cases. What were they thinking? It would be like making a chainsaw and instead of leaving it with a flat base, making it round. Neither of these pole saws will lay flat for more than about 2 seconds, and when they do roll over, both leak fuel and oil. Why not make the base wider?






Moving onto the handles, the echo style is not everyones cup of tea but I don't mind it.


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## imagineero (Apr 22, 2013)

Moving on to the crux of the matter we get to the poles. This is where stihl really falls down. They use the same pole on the HT75, 101 and 131, and it really is awful. It bends very easily, and has a bizzare arrangement of floating supports and springs internally, and an aluminum drive shaft. Even when new they don't extend nicely, and the springs are noisy. It doesn't take long for the internal supports to get a bit of dust in them, which stops them from sliding, then the drive shaft gets bent. After that, the saw wobbles, vibrates, or just wont run at full extension. The lack of trueness causes the saw to be very hard to spool up, and makes it bog down easily because it uses so much of the engines power just to keep it spinning. The 101 and 131 go a little better because they have more power, but that's kind of like upgrading your trucks engine from a 350 to a 454 because your handbrake is stuck on. 











The stihl internal shaft is 25mm (1") while the echo is 35mm (1 1/2"). you might think that would make it 50% stiffer, but it's a whole lot more than that. It's at least twice as stiff. Put them both on the ground at full extension, and give each a shake, the stihl wobbles around like wet spaghetti, bouncing 10 or more times. The echo bounces back immediately and stops. Cutting at full extension, the stihl flexes noticeably a lot more than the echo does. The echo also has a steel drive shaft vs the stihls aluminum one.

Echo is the clear winner in the pole area, which counts for a lot. Every stihl pole saw I've ever owned has died from shaft problems, and the shaft costs more than half the replacement cost of the entire saw. Because of it's much stiffer pole, the echo requires less power both in terms of getting going, and keeping on going. That means it spools up fast, and it isn't giving up half its engine power just to fight its own shaft losses. The smaller engine on the echo gets more done, more quickly than the stihls do. It's also quieter and smoother to operate which is a pleasure.


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## imagineero (Apr 22, 2013)

Which brings us to the saw heads, which are both awful for different reasons.

Echo has continued their 'go large' theme by using a long and bit attachment to the pole section, good for them. They also have a double keying system to keep the saw head in line. It consists of a spline on either side of the shaft, and a screw that goes into a hole in the shaft. This is a very good thing! 

Unfortunately echo drops the ball by being ridiculous in their approach to fasteners. To do something simple, like tension the chain, or swap between the pole saw head and the hedging head, you need a T20 torx driver, a flathead screwdriver, a phillips head screw driver, a 5mm allen key, and a 10mm socket. I'm not kidding. Did they just pickup random bolts off the ground and put them any old place?






If you're from the stihl school of thought, you've suffered. There is no keyway on the stihl shaft or saw head, so the saw head is free to rotate. It can also just plain slide right off the end of the pole, or slide far enough out that the drive shaft doesnt engage it any more which sucks big time if you're half way through a cut and the saw head falls off. What are you going to do now? We've all been there. Getting the saw stuck/bound up with the head not engaging the pole is how most of the weak stihl poles get bent in the first place, and it really isn't that hard of a thing for stihl to design better. Listen up stihl! You suck! I hope you are reading this, and feeling the silent rage of every person who has ever bought one of your awful pole saws. 

You may think that you could tighten up the retaining bolts on the head to make it not rotate, or fall off... but no. This casting cracked because of tightening the bolts up in a normal way. So now it needs an exhaust clamp to keep working. For shame, stihl. Stihl does win points over echo for using a sensible standard approach to their fasteners, so listen up here echo, husky etc... just one type of fastener will do nicely thank you! Stihl has that combination torx bit/wrench that does the lot, and the fasteners are the same as the ones on all the stihl saws. Simple and effective.


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## bootboy (Apr 22, 2013)

I'm diggin it.

The echo PPT266 is $599 stateside.
The PPT280 is $659. Both can probably be had at a better price (-$50) from a reputable dealer.

I've been looking long and hard at the 280. It's good to know about the fasteners. I guess I could just go buy new matching hardware for just a few bucks at the local nut and bolt supply. Sounds like the echo is the clear winner in all other categories.

Thanks for the review


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## imagineero (Apr 22, 2013)

As we get closer to the bar, things continue along much the same lines






The echo saw head looks like something you'd find on a cheap chinese import. They've priced themselves well into the commercial end of the market, and did a good job on their powerhead and pole, why did they let things go with the saw head? The whole look of the thing is cheap. The oil reservoir and cap look flimsy, the bar cover is awful, and the fasteners very sub grade. If the saw is intended to last a long time, it will need fasteners which also last a long time. The stihl unit looks much more the part, unless you hate flippy caps.







One area that echo got right, is the chain and bar. Both saws use the 3/8" lo pro, but stihl decided to go with safety chain in .043, while echo went with regular chain in .050. No guess on which cuts like mad. Because of the choice on gauge, you can use the very excellent carlton N1 on the echo saw, which is also great on your 200T. 

The stihl head is very good on oil, because it doesn't use any. Well, that isn't strictly true... you'll need to top it up once every thousand tanks or so. This further hurts stihls approach of trying to push a square wheel up a hill, because the stihl saw with its narrow gauge and no oil adds to the woes caused by the awful shaft to even further reduce the power of the saw. Echo puts the exxon valdez to shame, putting out enough oil to get you in serious trouble with the EPA. That combined with its excellent shaft and sensible non safety chain leaves it well ahead of stihl because the engine has an easy time driving the whole combination.






Removing the bar cover on the echo requires a 10mm socket, and a flathead screwdriver. The tensioner is in the flimsy cover, and is known to get lost/come loose.






Stihl has gone with their standard 19mm nut, and one is just fine. The tensioner works well and will last a long time, but why so stingy on the oil? The only time it ever comes out is when the saw is in your truck






Puts the size of the fasteners into perspective. Echo 10mm nut shown next to the stihl item.


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## imagineero (Apr 22, 2013)

One more jab at Echo about their awful fastener system. They've got a modular system where you can switch the saw head out for a hedging head, which is nice.... but why be so ridiculous about the fasteners? The saw head needs a 5mm allen key. The hedging head needs a T20 torx bit and a phillips head screw driver. The saw head cover needs a 10mm socket and a flathead screwdriver. Who is going to carry all these tools around with them? Even if you did, those T20 screws are not going to last long.

The echo hedging head looks just as good as the stihls, and is priced about the same. I don't own the stihl hedging head, I used to just rent it when I need it. They are similar in build quality, and both have full size grease nipples, and rotatable heads.


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## imagineero (Apr 22, 2013)

Summing up the first impressions....

Who'd have thought that making a pole saw would be so tough? Can't someone just put a 200T on the end of a broom handle with a rotatable mount? Nobody has ever made a good pole saw. One that's light and rigid, has plenty of power, durable, a head that rotates so you can make proper cuts, and runs well. 

Stihl could do it pretty easily. They need to upgrade their awful shaft system, and put an .050 bar on their saw with a high output oiler. Their engines, build quality, and systematic approach to design are already well developed.

Echo could get there pretty easily too. The PPT 265 isn't far short of being a commercial quality saw. The motor is well made, the shaft is great, and they made a sensible choice with the chain selection and oiler output (though don't be surprised if the EPA corrects them there!). They need to make a quality saw head to match the rest of the saw though, and add some $ to the sale price to cover that. They also need to put on their big boy shoes when it comes to fasteners - one size does fit all, please make it big. We don't need 10 different tools to lose, just the one, and could you make it the one that we already have please? Not another new one that we won't be able to get anywhere.

I'll update this review again in a month or so, then again in about 6 months.

Shaun


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## struggle (Apr 22, 2013)

I have noticed with my HT131 the lack of oiling as you say. Mine doesn't even leak when in storage.

I wonder if running winter oil might help get a little more out


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## nmurph (Apr 22, 2013)

I have had an HT 75 for about 4yrs. It seems to oil just fine, using about a tank/tank as you would expect. It is an older saw and they may have reduced the flow. I have used my a good bit in the woods gettting ready for deer season, but not as much as an arborist would. For me, and I would imagine for the average homeowner-hack, the 75 makes an excellent PS. 

Shaun, how do they compare weight-wise? I have always thought the 75 was one of the lighter PS's around.


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## XSKIER (Apr 22, 2013)

My HT KM 130 uses oil quicker than it uses fuel. The 4-MIX engine uses so little fuel, and a generous fuel tank capacity means that I have to keep an eye on the oil tank. My oil doesn't leak either. Maybe your HT 75 needs some maintenance? The chain on your HT 75 looks like it is done. Try a loop of Oregon 90S, the cutters are larger than stihl 61 PMMN, and it has no safety features. It will be interesting to see the comparison video of the Echo and Stihl. 

[video=youtube_share;HzTlSF7B-ek]http://youtu.be/HzTlSF7B-ek[/video]


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## imagineero (Apr 22, 2013)

They must be very close on weight as per the specs, though I've seen stihl claim 6.9kg on some websites and 7.3 on others. The echo is slightly heavier at a guess, but picking them up one by one you'd have a hard time picking it. I'll try to dig out my scales tomorrow and weight them both.

I think for occasional use, any pole saw would do, even the cheap chinese units. For semi regular home use the ht 75 is probably quite fine. Daily use is hard on equipment though, and pole saws have it especially hard. Because of their size, they tend to ride in the back of chip trucks, with the chip. It's dusty, and the guys tend to be none too careful with pole saws. They're such good money makers that most tree services cant help but keep replacing them. Would be nice if there was a longer lasting option. A lot of friends running tree companies have been leaving stihl for echo, and it prompted me to do the same. I think the echo is lower quality in some areas, but overall will probably last longer than the stihl because of the shaft design and the higher output oiler. 

Shaun


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## nmurph (Apr 22, 2013)

It's funny you mentioned the tipsy nature of the 75. My (9yr old) son commented this weekend that the "pole saw won't sit up!" I thought it was a keen insight. But even though it does seem to stand on it's head a lot, I haven't noticed more than a drip or two of oil or fuel. Maybe it's bc you guys are upside down to start with:msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin:.


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## 7sleeper (Apr 22, 2013)

As far as I know only the Efco pole saw PTX 2700 has a rotable head (0-90°) as standard. 







PTX 2700 | efco Power

Thanks for the quick overview! 

I tried out once one of the cheap chinese multi tools with pole saw attachment. It vibrated so much that the conections with the fixating hole slowly got bigger and bigger. Luckily I was able to return it. 

I also have a Stihl kombi tool with pole saw attachment and have often wondered that it is actually a little strange that the saw only points in one direction. Stihl has a 45° angular gear that cost's a humongous amount for that part only. At least not worth it for me. 

7


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## nmurph (Apr 22, 2013)

I forgot to mention that I have used a PP PS that my FIL has borrowed from a neighbor. We live a couple of hours apart and strapping my PS to the rooftop would look a little strange. The HT75 is several steps above the PP. 

I have looked at the Efco several times. I like the idea of a tilting head. It seems like it would be a no-brainer, at least as an option, for all PS's.


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## Giles (Apr 22, 2013)

THANKS---*imagineero*--for an excellent review:msp_smile:
I have a Stihl HT250 that is about four years old. One thing that I could add is that the design of all pole saws that I have operated are wrong for me:msp_angry:
Why not make a saw with a rear handle--with the engine between your hands, balance would be much better and reach would be longer
I have not had this saw for very long but I will look into adding a rear handle after I get the mess cleaned up in my yard and get the Chinese carburetor straightened out:bang:


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Apr 22, 2013)

I have a older echo PPT 261 and love it. Wouldnt trade it for any other. Plus I like real 2 stroke motors over the 4 mix stuff.

I use the stihl 63PS3 chain which is much faster through the cuts. As much as 15% faster.

Plus you can buy 5' extension if needed.

PPT 261 12' 10" Dry Weight (lb)* 16.7 no bar chain 

other older

PPF 225 7'9" Dry Weight (lb)* 13.9 no bar chain

PPT S 265 8' Dry Weight (lb)* 15.1 

PPT 265 12' 2" Dry Weight (lb)* 17.4


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## xxl (Apr 22, 2013)

the only reason i have aht 101 is becuase someone gave it to me Id rather have a Echo


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## imagineero (May 6, 2013)

I can report that already the echo is not working out to be as good as I had hoped. This so called 'professional grade saw' didn't even stand up to getting run over by a 10 tonne truck today. 






Its not that clear in the pic, but the truck didn't completely run over it, just rolled into it and pushed it into the ground. The carb snapped the casting on the cyllinder where it attaches, so it will be needing a new cyllinder. That's pretty much it. Will get a price from the dealer tomorrow. Anyone want a mint OEM echo cyllinder with only 0.5 hours run time from new? Missing the intake side of the casting ;-)

Shaun


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## XSKIER (May 6, 2013)

Ok. So how did it PERFORM during those precious few minutes that it has been run?


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## 7sleeper (May 6, 2013)

Should be no problem welding it back on.... 

7


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## imagineero (May 7, 2013)

Parts ordered today, came up to about $200 for a new cylinder, base gasket, and air filter cover. A lot less than what I figured, so +1 to echo there. For reference, a stihl P&C is about $800 here, so all things being equal I guess you guys can get an echo cylinder for about the same price as a quarter pounder stateside.

Shaun


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## Hddnis (May 7, 2013)

I've been less and less happy with my Stihl pole pruners. Even when new they were dogs. I've known the oiling was an issue, as they never use any oil. Add in that you have to fight to get them to rev and then you just hold them there because waiting for them to rev again makes the job take forever.

I didn't know what I was missing till I got to run a friends Echo, felt better in my hand overall and worked really well. Now I'm thinking of switching, but I can't decide for sure. The Stihl stuff is paid for and selling it would only get me halfway or a little better maybe towards the Echo.




Mr. HE


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## Hddnis (May 7, 2013)

imagineero said:


> Parts ordered today, came up to about $200 for a new cylinder, base gasket, and air filter cover. A lot less than what I figured, so +1 to echo there. For reference, a stihl P&C is about $800 here, so all things being equal I guess you guys can get an echo cylinder for about the same price as a quarter pounder stateside.
> 
> Shaun





Ain't that the luck! Glade it won't set you back to far, still sucks having a truck run it over. I don't think I'd want to lift the pole pruner that could stand up to a dump truck. 





Mr. HE


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## imagineero (May 17, 2013)

Did the cylinder swapover earlier this week but didn't have time to post some pics. All went fine, it's a simple little engine to work on. Very tiny little piston though! The pin for the rings is right in the middle of the intake port, I'd always thought that was a no no but I really don't know for sure. Single piston ring.












The muffler weighs 17 metric tonnes, and has something inside it. Is that a cat? I've never seen anything like that inside a muffler before. 






This shows the damage to the cylinder. You can see the whole left section has snapped off, as well as half of the bolt hole on the right. It looks pretty big in the pic because it's a close photo, but this is really very small and flimsy. 






And shown here put back together so you can see where the crack was. It seems like a minor weak point in the saw design. Everything on the left side of the saw hangs off these two small bolts, which are not very well cast into the cylinder. The throttle extension, the carb itsellf, the airfilter and the large cover over it, and the throttle cable all hang off this section. It's not inconceivable that it would crack if you dropped it, even from just waist height. 

Anyway, it's back together and working great.

Shaun


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## 7sleeper (May 17, 2013)

Pic 2 sure is your classic catalytic converter. Some how many folks loose them and are very happy with the reduced heat. But I doubt the pole saws suffer very much from the heat(there have been some cases where the assumed culprit for the sieze was the high heat output of the cat). Compared to a brushcutter f.e. because a pole saw does not run WOT for extended peroids of time.

7


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## cmarti (May 17, 2013)

nmurph said:


> I have used my a good bit in the woods gettting ready for deer season, but not as much as an arborist would.



One of the best tools I have ever got for hunting. It saves some grief setting stands. I trim stuff around the yard, so my wife won't put it together that I got it for hunting. It takes some abuse on an ATV, so how much to spend for that kind of use, and relatively little cutting, is a good question.


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## sawfun9 (May 18, 2013)

Except it doesn't extend, the ht250 is like having a ms200t on a stick with 5 more cc's.


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## imagineero (Jun 24, 2013)

It's been a couple months, so I thought I'd throw an update in there with some longer term impressions.

I've been carrying round both the stihl and the echo, and would generally give the nod to the echo. As originally posted it has proved to be a very robust unit in most ways, with only a couple of minor gripes. The first is the bar tensioner nuts which as previously mentioned are tiny. We lost the tool already, so if the chain jumps or needs tensioning I have to wait till I get home to do it. I'll have to pick up a spanner, or socket or something and find some way of storing it so it wont get lost. 

We've done a couple of bigger hedges with the echo and the power of the hedger is impressive. It isn't the fastest thing, and man that hedging head weighs a tonne! but it will go through stuff right up to about 3/4" with a little persuasion. The strap that comes with the polesaw is completely useless. Another minor annoyance is the way the hedging head mounts - it mounts so the head is perpendicular to the handle. It can't be rotated due to the keying. This means the pole saw is comfortable to operate only so long as you are facing the hedge. For myself, I prefer to stand parallel to the hedge and walk along it as I trim. If you do this, the handle is on the side of the saw rather than on the top, making it even more straining to hold on to. I don't think that explanation makes any sense so I'll take a pic next time we're hedging.

The echo is noticeable heavier than the stihl. You don't notice it when you pick them up side by side, but 10 minutes sawing with each gives it away. The echo starts to get heavier quite quickly! You can definitely go longer with the stihl before 'pole saw arm' sets in. The stihl also has about 5" more reach. The price you pay for that lightness is that they just don't last. If I'm doing a bunch of lighter stuff, palm pruning for example, at full extension, the stihl is much nicer to use. If you're doing heavier limbs, the echo is faster and more powerful which makes up for its slight weight disadvantage. When you're doing bigger limbs you're not supporting the weight of the saw for as much time either. 

While the echo is better build quality overall, there are areas it's lacking. A couple of weeks ago a branch cracked the oil filler cap. The cap is very brittle/flimsy plastic and pokes out a lot further than the stihl flippy cap. The bar cover on the echo is also noticeable more flimsy, and I've spoken with a few guys who have complained about the tensioner on the echo as not lasting very long. 

I'll throw another post up in a few months or so. If I haven't and you're reading this feel free to give me a boot.

Shaun


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## nmurph (Jun 24, 2013)

Pole-saw arm----Berry gud!!!

I continue to find jobs for my 75, and it continues to knock them right out without complaint. A polesaw is a tool you didn't know you couldn't live without until you have one.


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## 7sleeper (Jun 24, 2013)

Thanks for the real world update! 

rep sent!

7

edit: AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH cannot rep, rep around first, I hate this repping system! :angrysoapbox: I don't rep a lot since the like function, but still that is simply annoying!

So only a like sent!

7


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## imagineero (Jan 2, 2014)

Thought I'd put another update in here. Kind of a bummer to see all the pics gone :-(

I broke the pole saw head on the saw last week. I can't work out whether it was a poor design, a casting defect, or I was just too rough with it. The pole saw caught a branch as it came down. When this happens I tend to try to go with the branch than fight it. I find I can usually get the saw out on the way down, but if I fight it I end up wearing the branch. On the odd occasion that I can't free the saw, so long as you're kind of loose in holding it I find that the saw is ok most times. This time it wasn't. The pole saw head cracked at the union between where it bolts onto the shaft and the head itself. No big deal I figured, new saw head and be done with it.

RRP on the pole saw head here in aus turns out the be $650, not far shy of what you can pick up the entire saw for ($500). The hedging head, which is geared and has a precision blade sells for considerably less than that. The hedging head includes the blade also, the pole saw head does not include a bar. You can buy complete small saws for $650. I ended up getting it from my dealer for $490, apparently not much more than their cost if you'll believe that.

I haven't yet worked out if the head I received is a new design, or an old one... but it's different from what came on the saw. There have been a few changes.

The new head;

tensioner is in the body rather than the side cover
side cover no longer has a retaining screw
fasteners are now all the same size (4mm allen key)
the oil filler cap is now (incredibly!) taller, and a smaller opening
the bar studs are smaller and don't accept the same bar. Mine may be missing a part

I'm thinking this is a new design. There was no notice on the box about compatibility, or the lack of it. The chain tensioner is now in the body, but is just sitting there and falls out every time you remove the bar. The side cover is much the same. The original oil filler cap was a major design flaw compared to stihl. It was too high, exposed to damage and was very brittle. We already cracked 2 or 3 of them. The new one is even more ridiculously tall, making it worse and the hole is smaller making it harder to fill. The big let down though was the new bar studs. The studs themselves are the same size, but they don't have an expanded dowel at the base to locate the bar. Because of this, the original bar no longer fits. You will discover this out on a site, when you needed the saw to do the job and you are hours drive from the dealer. I can't figure out if the new head should go with a new bar with a smaller slot or the studs need to have a spacer ring on them. There was no useful information in the box the head came in. At that point I figured I had nothing to lose so I attempted swapping the (very small, 1/4" or less?) bar studs with the older ones so I could get the job down and not pay my workers for nothing. Original head studs came out easy, but the new ones were loctited in well and truely and snapped when I tried to remove them. I took it back to the dealer who stripped it down so as not to cause heat damage to the plastic parts, then torched the studs to break the loctite, pulled the studs and swapped them with the ones on the old broken head at no charge. 

I was kind of discouraged about taking detailed photos for all of this after seeing all the pics in the old threads gone

One thing worth mentioning with stihl, is that they have excellent 'version control'. They keep plenty of stock of spare parts, for years to come. If they do update the design of a part, service bulletins are released and they ensure it's backwards compatible. That's really important when you use your tools to get income. A plus to stihl there, and a minus to echo.

The echo pole saw is still a better pole saw overall than the still. The engines are about equal, the shaft on the echo is far superior to the stihl (definitely the stihl's weak point!) and will last a long time. The way the head is secured to the pole is another big letdown for stihl and echo is the clear winner there also. The pole saw head itself is a major letdown on the echo though. It's weak, flimsy and cheap looking. It's about the equivalent of heads you get on $200 chinese pole saws. On balance, I'm still voting for the echo. It's held up better than a stihl over the last 10 months, and I still feel confident I'll get years of use out of it. After a year, the pole on the stihl saws is often decidedly worse for wear. I'll just have to be more careful with the head in future, wish they'd spent a few more $ there


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## treesmith (May 2, 2014)

Nice reviews Shaun, thanks for those.
I've been using ht75 owned by a company with street tree contracts, I really like it and it had seen a lot of abuse, the shaft was slightly bent but not too much, head didn't oil a lot but chain didn't bind, engine is beautiful, weight is good and it cuts fine, throttle response is excellent. I liked it so much I bought myself one, I'll give it a good workout and see if anything falls off


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## imagineero (May 2, 2014)

Another update,
I found out that the head I received is the new design, and it intended to go with a redesigned bar. The new bar has a tensioner slot in the bar (!) that mates up with the tensioner in the body which is an unnecessarily complicated design in my opinion. I'm still using mine with the studs from the old head and the bar from the old head and it works fine.


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## imagineero (May 2, 2014)

The HT 75 is quite good if you get a good one. It's lighter than the echo, has an extra couple inches reach and when you get a good one they are quite zippy. If you get a lemon you're screwed though. No way of telling till you've paid for it unless you buy used. I'd buy used if I was going to buy another, and I buy pretty much all my equipment new so that says something. They are pricey in aus, I think about $1250 for the ht 75 which is a lot of coin for the risk. More are good than are lemons, but I'd put the ration maybe 70/30 from my experience using quite a lot of them. A lot of them have bent shafts, and they can't be straightened or repaired. A lot I have used just don't work at full extension after a year or so.

I ran an oleo mac pole saw last week that belonged to another contractor and it surprised the hell out of me with the power it had. I didn't get the model number. I'm happy with the echo but it's heavy. You do notice the difference if you're on it all day. My solution to that is getting the guys on the crew to run it. I don't feel a thing. They don't last long though, so bring a few guys with you.


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## treesmith (May 2, 2014)

I looked up the specs and it weighs the same in the book as a 660 w/o bar n chain, thankfully I've never had to hold mine above my above my head all day


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## 7sleeper (May 2, 2014)

imagineero said:


> The HT 75 is quite good if you get a good one. It's lighter than the echo, has an extra couple inches reach and when you get a good one they are quite zippy. If you get a lemon you're screwed though. No way of telling till you've paid for it unless you buy used. I'd buy used if I was going to buy another, and I buy pretty much all my equipment new so that says something. They are pricey in aus, I think about $1250 for the ht 75 which is a lot of coin for the risk. More are good than are lemons, but I'd put the ration maybe 70/30 from my experience using quite a lot of them. A lot of them have bent shafts, and they can't be straightened or repaired. A lot I have used just don't work at full extension after a year or so.
> 
> I ran an oleo mac pole saw last week that belonged to another contractor and it surprised the hell out of me with the power it had. I didn't get the model number. I'm happy with the echo but it's heavy. You do notice the difference if you're on it all day. My solution to that is getting the guys on the crew to run it. I don't feel a thing. They don't last long though, so bring a few guys with you.


Do you remember if the oleo had the tilting head?

7


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## imagineero (May 3, 2014)

7sleeper said:


> Do you remember if the oleo had the tilting head?
> 
> 7


Yeah it did have the tilting head, which I think is a really useful and practical feature. Stihl has a fixed 15* head available or something, but the tilt head is a good idea.


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## clawnz (Jul 8, 2015)

2015: I have used Echo pole pruners for many years. Their first. The American model they bought out was a shocker and I am going to guess some of the older model is the cause of the different tools needed.
As for the PPT 265es. God I am glad Echo reworked it. The older model would fail so often I can see why so many got put off. Their hedger was a total piece of ****. I worked with one of the trade people here and he was working on spinning circular blades instead of the flat bar. Which I am glad to say Echo dropped. The housing was plastic and the gears let go so often. I moved on and got my engineer to modify a chainsaw head to take a 7.25in thin nerf tungsten blade. This is ideal for hedges and will cut cleanly on woods up to 3.5in. Where the chain saw rips too much on the smaller stuff. The PPT 265es has come a long way under Echo and is now a brilliant piece of gear. One weakness is the bearings in the shaft. They are sealed. Crap. Due to water running down the shaft and I guess the temps they can get up to, they must suck in that water. As I do these bearings often enough to be annoying. Comments have been made about not being able to swivel the saw (I assume) the whole shaft can be revolved by just letting tension off the two screws in front of the handle. The reciprocating hedger is ??? try holding this out on full extension. Sodding hopeless. Try holding my conversion out and it is easy. It weights sod all, compared to 6lb of their hedger. Convert one of these and you will be happy doing good looking hedges. Ands I can post details of shaft that needs to be made. Cost well that is a real pain but well worth the investment.
And I 100% certain others have thought this one out. I know one guy who did. He ran a blade with chainsaw teeth on it. I showed him what I had done and he went to my engineer and got ons sorted.


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## imagineero (Jul 8, 2015)

I'd be interested in seeing a pic of that circular saw conversion


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## CR888 (Jul 8, 2015)

l desperately need another pole saw, and am considering an echo out of US. l have extension pole saw atm thats like the stihl multi atachment system. Looking at the specs, the fiberglass extendable models seem a lot heavier on paper compared to the shaft attachment style units. My Solo is light, powerful and l want to keep it that way. But there are trade offs with both designs, would be interested to hear any opinions on the straight shaft models. Good thread Shaun!


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## lone wolf (Jul 8, 2015)

struggle said:


> I have noticed with my HT131 the lack of oiling as you say. Mine doesn't even leak when in storage.
> 
> I wonder if running winter oil might help get a little more out


The oil pickup must be clogged.


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## clawnz (Jul 9, 2015)

I have not used any of the fixed length units.
One thing I do know is that you are never going to break solid shaft.
You mention weight. I am only 8.5 stone and I manage alright. I think they are much better balanced for what I use it for. Never could figure out why you want to hold a line trimming up in the air.
I like the sliding type as it gives better options than fixed length.
I have just assembled my new unit. The shop would normally do this for many reasons. But I would of only come home and taken apart.
There are a few tricks I have learnt over the years. One is to take apart and pop the seal on the bearings and pack them with grease. Only do the downward side not the top seals. This will help the bearings going for a lot longer than if you do not. I also lube with grease, the flexy lower drive shaft, oil the sliding drive shaft. I change the locking handle from the knob to a bar type. Throw away the clip for the strap. That is a total waste.
Assemble and power up.
One comment I have had, is that a cover should be fitted to the circular saw head? I do not figure this as there is not one for the chain saw.
Always wear safety gear. And like any tool keep the bloody thing sharp. *Sharp cuts. Blunt throws*.

The kill joy is that you have to destroy a chainsaw head to do this. So comes at a cost. But this time I found a secondhand one on Ebay and had it shipped down to me.

The new drive head. You can see I spent a bit more time cutting and grinding on this new one, Than the first one.






The old drive head. Yes it is broken in the clamp so used a hose clamp. It's done some good hours and still going great, so loath to toss it just yet.





The knob conversion.






Photo of clean cut off. Not that good, but it was from a loose bit of branch on the ground






And a bit of vid using it. Don't pick on me. It is stupid using any cutting tools like this. It was only as I could not figure out how to get shots in the air cutting a limb or trimming.
But as you can see it still cuts well on loose stuff, without throwing it around too much.


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## imagineero (Jul 10, 2015)

A lot of people might poo poo your idea but I think it's great. When I was in NZ I saw a similar thing on a much larger scale - looked like something out of mad max. Was a good size truck chassis maybe a 15 tonner which had all the cab and body removed and was armor plated. Had twin diesels, one for driving the truck and a bigger one for the hydraulics. Big arm with a reach of about 80' that also rotated in many different ways and on the end was mounted a 6' circular saw blade. For trimming up the enormous hedges all round farms in the south island. Wish I had of videod it, that thing made trees explode. Didn't stop, just kept driving along topping kilometers of hedge. Then reset the blade for the face and do a few more passes. 

Have you got a closeup photo of how you adapted the sprocket to take a bolt/nut?


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## clawnz (Jul 10, 2015)

We looked at trying to play around with existing shaft. But just no good option was found.
That is where you need a good tool maker (engineer). You take the shaft out and throw it away and make a new one, to take the blade.
The shaft is a pain as it has many steps in it. And you have to have left hand thread turned on it.
I can get the drawing with all the measurements.

You are talking Shelter Belts. Some of those contractors charge well, but do have some strange saw set ups.


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## Franny K (Jul 10, 2015)

imagineero said:


> A lot of people might poo poo your idea but I think it's great. When I was in NZ I saw a similar thing on a much larger scale - looked like something out of mad max. Was a good size truck chassis maybe a 15 tonner which had all the cab and body removed and was armor plated. Had twin diesels, one for driving the truck and a bigger one for the hydraulics. Big arm with a reach of about 80' that also rotated in many different ways and on the end was mounted a 6' circular saw blade. For trimming up the enormous hedges all round farms in the south island. Wish I had of videod it, that thing made trees explode. Didn't stop, just kept driving along topping kilometers of hedge. Then reset the blade for the face and do a few more passes.



I will join the poo poo club here. It is often I need the reach of the 44 drive link cutting attachment due to only being able to cut the thing I want to an an extreme angle due to branch placement and available footing.

There are in some rural places helicopters dangling perhaps 5 blades arranged vertically powered by a twin cylinder diesel also in the dangling assembly to trim power line right of ways. Not everywhere do the power lines follow the roads.


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## clawnz (Jul 11, 2015)

Franny K said:


> I will join the poo poo club here. It is often I need the reach of the 44 drive link cutting attachment due to only being able to cut the thing I want to an an extreme angle due to branch placement and available footing.
> 
> There are in some rural places helicopters dangling perhaps 5 blades arranged vertically powered by a twin cylinder diesel also in the dangling assembly to trim power line right of ways. Not everywhere do the power lines follow the roads.



Hi Franny Poo Poo man.
Are you saying you like the ripped cut over a nice pruning cut? Would that make you a tree butcher, not a tree pruner. Or you feel the extra reach of a 12in blade makes that much difference in reach. The chainsaw makes a mess of the smaller stuff as it bounces around and why I do not like it. 
Most of the time I would be using this attachment on hedges anyway, and that is where is shines over the chainsaw or reciprocating hedge trimmers.
Chainsaws are no good full stop. Limited reach, and always the chance of knocking the chain off. The reciprocating saws are limited to what size they will cut, where as the circular saw does not give a toss, and cuts cleanly from the smallest the the bigger stuff, you are likely to strike in a overgrown hedge.

There is a youtube vid showing the Heli saw at work somewhere. Flying down the sides of High Voltage Powerlines.


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## imagineero (Jul 12, 2015)

I have an old chainsaw head for my echo which is a bit bashed up and an ideal candidate for this type of conversion - the oil tank is cracked. If you do have a drawing I'd much appreciate it.


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## clawnz (Jul 12, 2015)

Sent you a PM.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jul 13, 2015)

Heres how its done! 



or around lines



Class on hedgetrimming dismissed!


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## imagineero (Jul 13, 2015)

The machine I saw was like the one in the second vid, only bigger and a bit more mad max. It had arms like the one shown, and also a 6' circular saw blade. The guy driving it must have been on a hurry cause he was blasting along the road a lot quicker than the guy shown in this vid


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## clawnz (Jul 13, 2015)




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## Philbert (Jul 25, 2015)

imagineero said:


> When I was in NZ I saw a similar thing . . . Was a good size truck chassis maybe a 15 tonner which had all the cab and body removed . . . . Big arm with a reach of about 80' that also rotated in many different ways and on the end was mounted a 6' circular saw blade.



http://jarraff.com/

http://jarraff.com/models/track-model/





Philbert


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## Philbert (Jul 26, 2015)

So, I was comparing powered pole saws, and came to these broad generalizations. Tell me if they make sense:

*Fixed Length Powered Pole Saws*

- least expensive to buy;
- simplest construction - all one piece;
- less maintenance/repair likely - all one piece;
- limited reach (typically around 7 feet long), but could be good for low level branches, or working from a bucket.

*Sectional Power Pole Saws* (STIHL Kombi, ECHO PAS, Husqvarna Multi Purpose, etc.)

- most versatile - powerhead can be used with other accessories;
- compact - break down to shortest length for storage or transport in car, etc.;
- close in price to telescoping pole saw once powerhead, extension, and pole saw added up.

*Telescoping*

- heaviest weight;
- longest practical reach;
- longest to store/transport;
- stiffest, due to larger diameter inner and/or outer shaft diameter;
- work at any length/extension - may fit into spaces more easily than fixed length or sectional saws;
- highest maintenance potential due to sliding drive shaft components;
- most expensive to purchase.

*Other*

Of course, each of these styles is available with different powerhead displacements, different brand preferences/design advantages, etc.

Philbert


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## Franny K (Jul 27, 2015)

Philbert said:


> So, I was comparing powered pole saws, and came to these broad generalizations. Tell me if they make sense:
> 
> 
> 
> Philbert


I guess your broad generalizations are ok perhaps some nit picking.

The Stihl fixed length option the HT 56 C-E is really of sectional design.
Do not confuse reach and length.
Pole pruners, chainsaws on a stick whatever you wish to call them, dedicated ones seem to have no loop, bicycle or other hand hold parts. I suspect the combination you are classing as sectional usually has some sort of hand hold device.
The telescoping ones are the longest even when collapsed and just the cutting attachment/gearbox assembly put directly on a straight shaft trimmer type device is the shortest.
I can not comment on bucket work but working out of the basket of a manlift, one about 8 feet long with space to set the telescoping one down it saves moving the hydraulics or wheels using the telescope function at times.
The telescoping ones, well the one I have the shaft kind of creeps out if the top of the bar is not used. It is minimized if the branch to be cut is pressed against what would be bucking spikes. I have had to use a piece of twine to keep it short.


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## Philbert (Jul 27, 2015)

Good point in telescoping being longest to store or transport when collapsed - won't fit in some vehicles. 

For the sectional ones, I assumed that the user would have the option of one, 30-36 inch (typical) extension. The telescoping pole saws seem to extend farther than that. Using more than one extension was not advised ny manufacturers, but may be possible. 

BTW I had to go into a couple of dealer shops with a tape measure to get somewhat accurate 'end-to-tip' measurements. Some catalogs list only the shaft length, some list length without the bar, some "12 inch" bars are quite a bit shorter, etc. 

After resolving that, lengths by type ame out pretty close. 

Philbert


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