# Has this ever happened to you?



## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

Time for a rant! I will edit as much as possible so read on only if you please.

Received a phone call from a guy who says he is "Lieutenant -----, and I am calling on behalf of ------, and she says that you have not finished your job for her". I asked if this was the police, and he butts in saying "are you going to finish the job or not"! I tried to explain myself, and he butts in again and says "just tell me that you are going to finish the job", to which I reply "I will be right over". 

I Have been in business since 07, and this is the first time I have had a complaint, especially one like this. 

For some background on the job in question: I took down a dead cottonwood tree on 8/30, for a sweet old lady???? who was elderly enough that she could not come out of the house when I bid on the job, but the job was straight forward enough that I felt comfortable to bid and perform without much explanation. I gave her a cheap bid ($225) because I am a sucker for feeling sorry for people. The tree was 30" dbh, had to be climbed topped and chunked, also mess cleaned up. As I was finishing up the job (had the tree on the ground, most of the wood and brush cleaned up and was doing some raking) She informed me that she had to leave for lunch (driven and assisted by someone else). Anyhow, she gives me a check and leaves and seemed happy with the job. We finished cleaning up, which consisted of raking all small stuff, however some pencil diameter sized twigs (no longer than 2", or anything that a rake would not get, are mixed with gravel in driveway, and mixed with 3 inch thick mat of pine needles on side of driveway that I could not sift out(think rural country setting). Also, I left two small 5 foot tall sucker trees that were branching off the lower root of the dead tree, as I thought she might want them for replacements, which is what most of my clients in the past have wanted. 

I received a call from her the afternoon of 9/1 stating that she was sorry she had to leave and was not there when we finished the job, but she did not want the sucker trees left, and maybe we could rake a little better (keep in mind that approximately 50% of my jobs are in settings like this, and I have never had a complaint). I told her the sucker trees would be nothing to clean up, but the twigs? I would see what I could do? Told her that the guy that i sub all my cleanup to was out of town til after labor day, and would that be too long, and if so I would come do it right now (I am 45 miles away) She says that is fine, "no hurry" just as long as it gets done soon. 

This morning, not five minutes after I got off the phone with my cleanup guy, talking about this job, and saying it needed to get done today or tomorrow, is when I receive the threatening phone call. I was a little frazzled, but after thinking about it for a few minutes I decide to call the number back that was saved on my phone. It belonged to the local council on aging. I could not believe that someone would call me and threaten me like that! I made sure that the job was cleaned up (took about ten minutes) Called the Client and asked if she was happy with it, of course she says she is, but she is looking out of her window 80 feet away. I again explained to her about the debris mixed with gravel and pine needles to which she replies in a sweet, little old lady, english accent, "that's fine the weather will deal with that, just mainly wanted the little trees taken out, and maybe a little more raking" She also informed me that she was getting her hair done this morning and explained to her friend (I am guessing Lieutenant) that she was a little worried that I would not finish the job. He told her he would take care of it....She said she was sorry, but hoped I understood, and she wished to use me in the future...that is how I felt...USED! This client is fired! I am such a sap for these elderly people that live in way nicer conditions than my family and I do, but I feel sorry for them and give them cheap bids, trying to be a good guy. 

Called the place again and asked for the director and explained to him about the phone call, and that I just wanted to talk to the guy who made it, and would take it no further, if he could make this happen. He was very courteous and professional and said he would get to the bottom of it. 10 minutes later the "Lieutenant" calls and is much nicer this time and very apologetic. He tells me this has nothing to do with the council, and that he was "very sorry sir". I explained to him that for future reference not to be making threatening phone calls. He told me he was not threatening and when I asked him if he was a Lieutenant, he says he was in the army. I told him that I knew what his intentions were and was done with the situation, that I just wanted to speak my mind on the matter. Hopefully he does not lose his job.

I may be a little high strung, or proud, but there are certain things that stick in my craw, so I will NOT be bullied by anybody. How many of you feel this way?


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## BlueRidgeMark (Sep 9, 2010)

tarzanstree said:


> I will NOT be bullied by anybody.





But you WERE.


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> But you WERE.



How's that? I called the guy on his b.s. and finished my job like I said I would. Now maybe I would've been bullied if I had finished the job with no follow up, but that is not what I did. By the way Edgar Rice Burroughs has not came after me yet.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 9, 2010)

I wouldn't let it get to you, rant and get over it and chalk it up as another day in the field. I wouldn't cancel out a client though.
Jeff


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## tree md (Sep 9, 2010)

LOL, he buffaloed you.

Should have told him to police deez nuts. That it is a civil matter and if he wanted to get involved he would need to contact your attorney.

That being said, see it as a learning experience. If you are going to be leaving some rakings then specify that before you start the job. The old folks are sticklers about cleanup. It would be helpful for you to keep that in mind.


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

Thanks for the wisdom MD! I guess I am just too laid back in how I handle my business, but it has worked for my clients thus far...that is one of the things that works for them too. As for the old lady...most of my clients are elderly, some are persnickety, and some are not, she was not persnickety to my face, but behind my back, which is why I will be more cautious from now on...it just sucks that I have to be!


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## pdqdl (Sep 9, 2010)

Just a small bit of advice:

1. Don't write off the little old lady. Just be ready for next time.
2. When a customer/lawyer/police/ or other so-called representative fails to fully identify themselves, or they do not answer a question; turn on your bully detector. 

These people are refusing to deal with you on your terms, yet they want you to do something for them. You should understand that when you are in a position like this, you can take your time talking to them. Confirm all facts, be reasonable, and demand nothing less than the same treatment from them.

If they rant and rave? Politely explain that they should call you back later when they can be more civil. Then terminate the call.


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> Just a small bit of advice:
> 
> 1. Don't write off the little old lady. Just be ready for next time.
> 2. When a customer/lawyer/police/ or other so-called representative fails to fully identify themselves, or they do not answer a question; turn on your bully detector.
> ...



Thanks for the sound advice pard. I don't know that it is worth it though? Worst client in three years, and I don't have to deal with b.s. like that...We will see how hungry I am if she calls me again!


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## capecodtree (Sep 9, 2010)

you did what you thought was the right thing. don't let ignorant people ruin your day. you could do a text book technical take down or pruning job and most people do not understand/appreciate what you did, but every body knows neat and clean!


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

capecodtree said:


> you did what you thought was the right thing. don't let ignorant people ruin your day. you could do a text book technical take down or pruning job and most people do not understand/appreciate what you did, but every body knows neat and clean!



What I thought was the right thing? everybody knows neat and clean???????? Did you read my whole post? You would not make it in my world and I would not make it in yours!


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## fishercat (Sep 9, 2010)

*You handled it better than I would have.*

Be careful with the elderly.Many of them can't remember a conversation they had 30 seconds ago.Some are just drunk or simply nuts.


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## TimberJack_7 (Sep 9, 2010)

Tarzan, 2 things:

1. From my experience, people aren't impressed so much by removals or how well a tree is pruned, but boy do they get excited when you do a good clean up job. And yes I read your whole post, I am just saying from my experience and in general.

2. No good deed goes unpunished.

Oh and here is one more for you

3. The road to hell is paved with good intentions....live and learn bro.


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## tree md (Sep 9, 2010)

fishercat said:


> Be careful with the elderly.Many of them can't remember a conversation they had 30 seconds ago.Some are just drunk or simply nuts.



And some of them will play the role.

Had one that we had a contract with to do a major project on his property. Over a hundred trees. Storm restoration and a few removals. We took over after he had fired another service on the project. Well, after we got through with well over half of the trees he paid us a partial payment then fired us and hired another service. What he was doing was playing games and trying to pay partial payments then firing a service and hiring another one to keep from paying full price on the work that had already been preformed. We camped out on his doorstep with our signed contract and collected the rest of our money. His son, who is an attorney was present and told him that it would be in his best interest to pay us what he had agreed to. We didn't collect full payment as we did not complete the whole job but we had every tree itemized and collected our billing for those trees which was $1100 more than what he had paid us.

Always get a signed contract. Especially on a major project. It will often cure a short term memory.

I try to do a good job for everyone and always leave a satisfied customer. I give even a little more to my seniors.


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## CNBTreeTrimming (Sep 9, 2010)

The elderly can be especially hard to please. I had a call just yesterday that I missed. I used white pages online. It gave me name number address and also said age 65+. Called the number back shortly after they called me and got yelled at for not answering my phone then told she had called another service and did not need my help. Sorry, YOU called me. I was just making sure she was taken care of.


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## capetrees (Sep 9, 2010)

1. From my experience, people aren't impressed so much by removals or how well a tree is pruned, but boy do they get excited when you do a good clean up job. And yes I read your whole post, I am just saying from my experience and in general.

2. No good deed goes unpunished.

Oh and here is one more for you

3. The road to hell is paved with good intentions....live and learn bro. 

:agree2:
with #2 but not #3

I would write her off. From what it sounds like, you're already in the hole for this job so why do more and especially if this is how she treats you, sicking the Lt. on you! You can make more money working for someone else.


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

All good replies. Thanks guys! I am not sure how I will deal with another client like this, but as time goes on, it will be a good learning experience...it is a harsh world we live in...too bad


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 9, 2010)

Not to de-rail, but I still think 'Cody Tree Care' sounds better than the Tarzan thing. 
Jeff


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Not to de-rail, but I still think 'Cody Tree Care' sounds better than the Tarzan thing.
> Jeff



Funny...my clients, and my pocketbook speak differently! Business has been good.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Sep 9, 2010)

tarzanstree said:


> How's that? I called the guy on his b.s. and finished my job like I said I would. Now maybe I would've been bullied if I had finished the job with no follow up, but that is not what I did.




Right here:



tarzanstree said:


> I tried to explain myself, and he butts in again and says "just tell me that you are going to finish the job", to which I reply "I will be right over".


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 9, 2010)

Ouch!
Jeff


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Right here:



"I'm so much cooler online"! Sound familiar Mark? You are a cull just like your friend Jeffy...yeah I remember you two...Try to run your own business, and then post on here for all the world to see!


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

Why don't you both come on up to Montany and we will see who is the bigger man?...or men?


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## oldirty (Sep 9, 2010)

get him, cody!

hey man. apparently you shoulda charged the old bird a bit more for the effort. sucks having to go back to a gig. 45 miles away no less. 

eh. what can you do. mighty white of you to go back though. that kinda effort will pay off in the end.

stay safe.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 9, 2010)

tarzanstree said:


> Why don't you both come on up to Montany and we will see who is the bigger man?...or men?



Nah, your trees are to little.
Jeff


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

oldirty said:


> get him, cody!
> 
> hey man. apparently you shoulda charged the old bird a bit more for the effort. sucks having to go back to a gig. 45 miles away no less.
> 
> ...



Thanks man...I have learned a lot from your posts on here and glad to have you chime in!


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Nah, your trees are to little.
> Jeff



Whatever Jeffy, I have already had way bigger trees in your state...Pathetic!

Yeah, that is me, after I slayed an old growth redwood in Northern CA. 
















My trees still too little Jeffy?


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## oldirty (Sep 9, 2010)

good thread, no one likes getting beat by the elderly and its damn near impossible to make them "happy" and awful hard to get really pissed at them. i try to avoid them when given the opportunity. lol

thanks for sharing.


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## oldirty (Sep 9, 2010)

schweeet pics, man!


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 9, 2010)

My name is Jeff, not Jeffy, and you look like a young pretty boy with no saw dust on you! Not impressed by your old pics.
Jeff


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## oldirty (Sep 9, 2010)

i don't know man. i've never dumped a stick of that size....... i won't lie i've got wood envy from them pics.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 9, 2010)

Base cutting in a forest? Really? Apples to oranges. You put a house under that and then show pics of the removal and I will be impressed.
Jeff


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> My name is Jeff, not Jeffy, and you look like a young pretty boy with no saw dust on you! Not impressed by your old pics.
> Jeff



Jeffy, I may be younger than you, but I guarantee that in just those three pics, there is more sawdust than will ever be spread on you! That was just a brief period in my timber falling life. Live in your little fantasy world.


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## oldirty (Sep 9, 2010)

not taking sides on this one at all but i think it might be a tad more than "base cutting", jeff. that is some serious wood being dealt with in them pics. 

i hear you though felling ain't climbing but still..... one false move down there making cut on something of that size and chit can go south quick. 

all i am saying is that is something i've never done and would love to give it a shot.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 9, 2010)

tarzanstree said:


> Jeffy, I may be younger than you, but I guarantee that in just those three pics, there is more sawdust than will ever be spread on you! That was just a brief period in my timber falling life. Live in you little fantasy world.



Your perception is your reality. You don't know me.
Jeff


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## beowulf343 (Sep 9, 2010)

..


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

Okay Jeffy, here is a couple where I happened to have some pictures:






left the stob for the customer to maybe have something carved






Here is another...a big school marmed doug fir...close enough to the house Jeffy?:





















I give respect when it is earned, and I expect the same.


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## Greystoke (Sep 9, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Your perception is your reality. You don't know me.
> Jeff


 

And you don't know me either...which is why you oughta check your ego at the computer screen door!


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## treemandan (Sep 9, 2010)

Next time just say " No, no, I will send you a bill to make sure everything is all right, maam, thank you".

And some guy calling out of the blue in defense of his momma, even with some bully, is something that can and should be easily recognized and pacified rather quickly and painlessly. Especially over some twigs. Did I hear you right when you said " the guy you sub out the clean up was out of town"? 

And think this: the little oldy lady told the LT guy that it was Tarzan Tree. Well? I mean it could work... if your name was Cody Tarzanian. That would be great! But just do not think it fits well with the image of what we do. With a name like that i would think you would really have to convice the people your are not a complete nut first thing off the bat when you meet them. I know I have to do that but we are not talking about me and I use the town I live in for my name.
Yer a heavy hitter so it seems and you got that going for ya


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 9, 2010)

Come on, Jeff, be an old sport. We want to see ropes, saddles and mustaches hanging out of the tree tops around where we live - 200' Eucs preferably  Go ahead. Let's see ya. lol


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## treemandan (Sep 10, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Come on, Jeff, be an old sport. We want to see ropes, saddles and mustaches hanging out of the tree tops around where we live - 200' Eucs preferably  Go ahead. Let's see ya. lol



yeah Jeff, we do.

And look , kiss ass, we wanna see YOU! No not you Jeff, I mean Jeffy.


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## oldirty (Sep 10, 2010)

you like the wolf claw spike setup? have you worn any other spikes? just wondering how big the difference is/was between the 2 options.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 10, 2010)

treemandan said:


> yeah Jeff, we do.
> 
> And look , kiss ass, we wanna see YOU! No not you Jeff, I mean Jeffy.



Neh, I don't have any pictures like that. Jeffy, he's maintaining photo logs at the yard though. He's going to break out something show worthy unless he's sober. If he's sober, then..... he's just going to nag the time away. 

:greenchainsaw:

Come on, Jeff. Where's those "Titans vs. the giant, wooden behemoths" photos at.


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## treemandan (Sep 10, 2010)

oldirty said:


> you like the wolf claw spike setup? have you worn any other spikes? just wondering how big the difference is/was between the 2 options.



Dam Buzzard! Man, the eyes on you. I thought I noticed myself but just seen the new gear so I thought I had seen enough. Looking good though he is. How do you feel Tarzan?


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## treemandan (Sep 10, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Neh, I don't have any pictures like that. Jeffy, he's maintaining photo logs at the yard though. He's going to break out something show worthy unless he's sober. If he's sober, then..... he's just going to nag the time away.
> 
> :greenchainsaw:
> 
> Come on, Jeff. Where's those "Titans vs. the giant, wooden behemoths" photos at.





Jeff, when did you start letting this guy kiss yer ass? He's with you now?


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Jeff, when did you start letting this guy kiss yer ass? He's with you now?



Maybe he doesn't want to side with a complete utter douche such as yourself, you tattle taling bitz. BTW, whatever happened to that thread where you made yourself look like a complete ass clown? Have you given any thought to Pipersville you little biotch?.....


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## treemandan (Sep 10, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> Maybe he doesn't want to side with a complete utter douche such as yourself, you tattle taling bitz.....



That'd be fine by me but what tattle did i tell?


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 10, 2010)

JEFFY...... big limbs bombing...... groundies running and diving for their lives...... children pointing and OMGing. Where are they at?

Jeff can muscle some CA brute wood. You guys watch out for the photos he's about to reveal especially you, DanTheStandBackMan.

Let's see 'em, Jeff.


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## treemandan (Sep 10, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> JEFFY...... big limbs bombing...... groundies running and diving for their lives...... children pointing and OMGing. Where are they at?
> 
> Jeff can muscle some CA brute wood. You guys watch out for the photos he's about to reveal especially you, DanTheStandBackMan.
> 
> Let's see 'em, Jeff.



Way back bro you bet!


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2010)

treemandan said:


> That'd be fine by me but what tattle did i tell?[/QUOTE
> 
> oh, you know oldmandan....


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## treemandan (Sep 10, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> treemandan said:
> 
> 
> > That'd be fine by me but what tattle did i tell?[/QUOTE
> ...


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## ducaticorse (Sep 10, 2010)

treemandan said:


> ducaticorse said:
> 
> 
> > UH, no I don't, maybe I am just to old to rememeber but back to you Tarzan, least you can climb a stick.[/QUOTE
> > Or maybe you're just a doushz and a puzzy. And they're called trees tough guy.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 10, 2010)

ducaticorse said:


> treemandan said:
> 
> 
> > ducaticorse said:
> ...


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## Greystoke (Sep 10, 2010)

oldirty said:


> you like the wolf claw spike setup? have you worn any other spikes? just wondering how big the difference is/was between the 2 options.



Only other hooks that I have worn were a wore out set of bashlins. When I was getting set up the wolf claws looked sweet, so I bought em. Only complaint I have really is if I have to lift a leg high, they hit the back of my knee, and can leave some nasty sore spots. I would like to try some others though.


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## Greystoke (Sep 10, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Next time just say " No, no, I will send you a bill to make sure everything is all right, maam, thank you".
> 
> And some guy calling out of the blue in defense of his momma, even with some bully, is something that can and should be easily recognized and pacified rather quickly and painlessly. Especially over some twigs. Did I hear you right when you said " the guy you sub out the clean up was out of town"?
> 
> ...



Tarzan's Tree Service, and I don't care if people think that I am nuts, as long as I get to climb trees and make money, I am happy! This incident was just a little bump in the road, and I needed a good rant on here with some of the other pros.


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## sgreanbeans (Sep 10, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Nah, your trees are to little.
> Jeff



now that was funny


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## fishercat (Sep 10, 2010)

*very true.I forgot that scenario.*



tree md said:


> And some of them will play the role.
> 
> Had one that we had a contract with to do a major project on his property. Over a hundred trees. Storm restoration and a few removals. We took over after he had fired another service on the project. Well, after we got through with well over half of the trees he paid us a partial payment then fired us and hired another service. What he was doing was playing games and trying to pay partial payments then firing a service and hiring another one to keep from paying full price on the work that had already been preformed. We camped out on his doorstep with our signed contract and collected the rest of our money. His son, who is an attorney was present and told him that it would be in his best interest to pay us what he had agreed to. We didn't collect full payment as we did not complete the whole job but we had every tree itemized and collected our billing for those trees which was $1100 more than what he had paid us.
> 
> ...



I usually don't get that from elderly but it is possible.Middle age folks and the extremely wealthy usually pull those tricks around here.


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## treemandan (Sep 10, 2010)

tarzanstree said:


> Tarzan's Tree Service, and I don't care if people think that I am nuts, as long as I get to climb trees and make money, I am happy! This incident was just a little bump in the road, and I needed a good rant on here with some of the other pros.



Well as long as you don't go too nuts go ahead, I ain't gonna try stop ya.

And about those spikes... What do you think of them? I think I have seen them for around 425 or so, it might have been in the Northern cataloge. Looks as though have a brace in the back and another on the side?

And Duticourse; Did you actually call me a biotch? My God ,very droll I gotta say.


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## Greystoke (Sep 10, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Well as long as you don't go too nuts go ahead, I ain't gonna try stop ya.
> 
> And about those spikes... What do you think of them? I think I have seen them for around 425 or so, it might have been in the Northern cataloge. Looks as though have a brace in the back and another on the side?
> 
> And Duticourse; Did you actually call me a biotch? My God ,very droll I gotta say.



Actually it is a hard plastic cuff with a soft liner that wraps around the whole backside of my leg. 

Nice pic btw!


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## Greystoke (Sep 10, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> now that was funny



Yeah, unfortunately I already cut all the big trees in Montany, and what is funny is I already cut all the big trees in Jeffs state too You guys can have the rest


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## treemandan (Sep 10, 2010)

tarzanstree said:


> Actually it is a hard plastic cuff with a soft liner that wraps around the whole backside of my leg.
> 
> Nice pic btw!



Yeah, ain't I somptin!?
Anyway, can you post a pic of the spikes?


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## Greystoke (Sep 10, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Yeah, ain't I somptin!?
> Anyway, can you post a pic of the spikes?



I will try to find a better one sometime.


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## newsawtooth (Sep 10, 2010)

tarzanstree said:


> I will try to find a better one sometime.



I have to stop and rest about that high too.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 10, 2010)

The problem I get with my spikes is that the bar twists around in the leather, and screws up the integrity of the leather and my legs. What do you suppose makes them stop? I was thinking the aluminum pads might, but I assume that those wolf claws have the support in the back for that purpose. Is that right?


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## beowulf343 (Sep 11, 2010)

treemandan said:


>



Why are you carrying three saws up a tree??


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## beowulf343 (Sep 11, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> The problem I get with my spikes is that the bar twists around in the leather, and screws up the integrity of the leather and my legs. What do you suppose makes them stop?



Proper length adjustment.


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## tree md (Sep 11, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Well as long as you don't go too nuts go ahead, I ain't gonna try stop ya.
> 
> And about those spikes... What do you think of them? I think I have seen them for around 425 or so, it might have been in the Northern cataloge. Looks as though have a brace in the back and another on the side?
> 
> And Duticourse; Did you actually call me a biotch? My God ,very droll I gotta say.



LOL! Well, that's one way to keep the groundies from getting their grubby little hands on your saws...


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 11, 2010)

beowulf343 said:


> Proper length adjustment.



Do you say they should be higher or lower? I have them midway they way I bought them.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 11, 2010)

Are you happy with the way you handled yourself ??? If not than change your mistakes and move on , I get what your saying about the cleanup it sucks sometimes and often that is the only thing they care about , I cleared a yard for a pool 2 weeks ago removed 27 trees , did extra stumps that we found under leaves and some additional pruning since the truck was already setup , I used mats for the trucks and cat and at the end of it all when we removed the mats the grass was yellow and smashed the HO wanted a bag of seed to fix the area . The pool company was scheduled to start tree days later and bring in a track hoe to dig the hole and 3 tri axles , so that dead grass would be soupy mud in less than a week ... I laughed right in the guys face and said "NO" and in about 10 seconds he started to chuckle too and said "I GUESS IT WOULD KINDA A WASTE" some people just are clouded with reality


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## cassandrasdaddy (Sep 11, 2010)

*not tree related but try this one*

7 years ago i bid a tile job 3500 bucks to install a 2 person corner whirlpool with 2 new 20 amp circuits as well a serious plumbing change in a concrete floor change out a double vanity a shower door and tile the big bathroom.(16x20) bid 3500 buck for the labor they provide the materials. they thought i was too high so my helper asked if he could take 2 weeks to do the job on his own for less would i mind. i said no prob and thanked him for being honest with me(heck he referred these folks to me in the first place)

he knew the tub a was way over his head so he had me do that for him for a grand. i did it and it was awesome at the time it was one of my finest to date. built the enclosure cut out the existing tile walls and integrated the new stuff so it looked like it was always there even worked out 2 hatches that were velcroed so nothin showed. lady loved it took picture posted em on the net fixed me a great spaghetti dinner and i left. 
never had a contract with em never took any money from them my deal was with my "buddy" neal. 
fast forward 2 months its my birthday i'm in the docs office getting 8 stitches at 10 am (great start to day) phone rings its the sheriffs office tell me theres a warrant would i like to come take care of it? i said sure as soon as they get done stitching i'll be right over. on the way i try to figure what it could be got overdraft protection been sober 12 years so i don't have any lost weekends that i'm afraid of. all i could think was someone must stole my id and done something. i go to the desk lady says sit down someone will be out to see me. i see deputy with a green warrant i say oh shucks hand over wallet and id to my new helper since green paper in va means felony. deputy says theres a warrant charging me with construction fraud and we go across the street to process me.
i still think someone musta used my name and its all gonna get cleared up right away. as i'm sitting in the room getting printed i read the warrant upside down. it states that the lady who i did the tub for is charging neal for failing to some things and for starting a leak that caused some damage my name isn't on the criminal complaint anywhere. i ask the deputy and she says huh? thats not an alias? i say no and explain it to her she calls her boss they both agree somethings wrong but say that the magistrate will have to clear it up their job is to serve the warrant. see magistrate he agrees that something is wrong but the magistrate that issued the warrant has to straighten it out. and by the way since i had a felony in 1978 when i was a kid i can't get personal recognizance i have to post bond. off we go to jail to wait for wife to post bond 1000. so at 6 pm i finally get released and still have to get a lawyer to make sure the charges are properly disposed of. 


it all worked out though i called chief magistrate next day and left a civil phone message that described what happened and asked how it could be. he called first thing next morning and said there was a mistake at their end and he would take care of it. he was good to his word but it was funny the only time i was ever innocent when i was locked up i didn't know what to do when i wasn't guilty

altogether quite the circus and even funnier since i actually never got paid a dime by anyone for that job neal my "bud" skipped town owing me


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 11, 2010)

:jawdrop:


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## oldirty (Sep 11, 2010)

beowulf343 said:


> Why are you carrying three saws up a tree??



one of my more favorite pics of the dan.


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## cassandrasdaddy (Sep 11, 2010)

*to make it worse?*



ForTheAction said:


> :jawdrop:


 the ding bat who filed charges old man's a real decent guy once i dropped 350 bucks in cash on the floor of his store i came back 4 hours later looking at the floor as i retraced my steps when carl hollered from the counter hey buddy i bet this is yours and gave me my money. were it not for that i woulda coulda sued for false arrest but no way to sue her without crapping on her old man too and i couldn't see doing that. carl is no saint but in a couple of real important areas shows real class and in this case what goes around came around he and i are still friends his wife and me? not so much. in her defense shes a real live dingbat got 100% disability from a gov job for mental illness issues so it was a lil easier to not take it personal. she did say she was sorry and her lame excuse was "someone in the magistrates office told me if you don't know one guys address serve the warrant on the other guy" she claim it was some cop that told her that. i think the fact the the magistrate that issued the warrant went to highschool with the dingbat had something to do with it. there is very lil training to be a magistrate here


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 11, 2010)

I hate to say what the moral of this story is. :censored:

I'll tell you what though. By living around here I'm never surprised by people any more. Never. So many crazy things happen around here than it startles me when people are not up to crazy things or just absolutely nothing at all to stay out of it all. 

If your incident would have happened to me, I would have just said to myself, "Yup, that figures. :censored: I suppose I'll have to set up a 'how to be a responsible person class' when I get out." I would have gone over there like an anvil and a hammer, and done some kind of straightening out that had never been seen by her likes before nor his. It would have all been legal, but the proper influence would have bleed through the vale of ignorance. 

Part of life IS keeping people on the path of responsible use of their rights. I'm sure she felt great and dandy about how she could just do some talking, and send you to jail. :greenchainsaw:

Some days are like amusement park rides, and some people can't help but send you on one.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 11, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> I hate to say what the moral of this story is. :censored:
> 
> I'll tell you what though. By living around here I'm never surprised by people any more. Never. So many crazy things happen around here than it startles me when people are not up to crazy things or just absolutely nothing at all to stay out of it all.
> 
> ...



Now I know why you think everyone who disagrees with you or mocks you is a drunk! One of your responses to me and Absolute, I dont drink , d u m b a s s !Sounds like you do tho. Why is it you think everyone is (TUI) your words. BTW, Are you ever gonna be an Arborist?
Jeff


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## cassandrasdaddy (Sep 11, 2010)

*theres irony here*

*bleed through the vale of ignorance. *

in cindys case? shes a dingbat when shes screws up its nothin personal and i didn't take it personal for long, about 12 hours. i think when some folks make all the loud noise about "what they would do!" they are announcing to the world at large how small they feel deep down inside where they really live. heck when you get to the point where you don't smell like similac on a global scale of things that come down the pipe in life it was no big deal.nobody killed kinda funny . the cop got a kick outa me asking "whata you do when you are innocent?! i'e never been innocent before..."


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## treemandan (Sep 11, 2010)

beowulf343 said:


> Why are you carrying three saws up a tree??



It doesn't matter why, just that I am.


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## fishercat (Sep 11, 2010)

*try the velcro wraps from Buckingham*



ForTheAction said:


> The problem I get with my spikes is that the bar twists around in the leather, and screws up the integrity of the leather and my legs. What do you suppose makes them stop? I was thinking the aluminum pads might, but I assume that those wolf claws have the support in the back for that purpose. Is that right?



The ones with the steel inserts. The aluminum Caddy pads will work too.You could also try the Geckos.


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## fishercat (Sep 11, 2010)

*as long as it makes you happy..................*



treemandan said:


> It doesn't matter why, just that I am.



I say you need at least two more. hell,why stop at three? you got more loops on that saddle!


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## Slvrmple72 (Sep 11, 2010)

One fer cuttin the left side, one fer da right side, and one fer bore cuts!


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 11, 2010)

fishercat said:


> The ones with the steel inserts. The aluminum Caddy pads will work too.You could also try the Geckos.



Sounds good. Have you tried all of these?


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 11, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Now I know why you think everyone who disagrees with you or mocks you is a drunk! One of your responses to me and Absolute, I dont drink , d u m b a s s !Sounds like you do tho. Why is it you think everyone is (TUI) your words. BTW, Are you ever gonna be an Arborist?
> Jeff



I'll be an arborist, Jeff. That's not the question.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 11, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> The problem I get with my spikes is that the bar twists around in the leather, and screws up the integrity of the leather and my legs. What do you suppose makes them stop? I was thinking the aluminum pads might, but I assume that those wolf claws have the support in the back for that purpose. Is that right?



There not tight enough , you may also wanna try to wrap the calf strap once around the leg iron it keeps them from moving back and forth on your leg , They should be tight enough to almost cut off the circulation and your padding should fall between your knee and your calf muscle that way when the muscle flexes they stay put..I also have put wash clothes on my calf pads from time to time between the pad and my leg for a little extra padding they bite into your pants and the leather and old towel would work the same ..


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 12, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> There not tight enough , you may also wanna try to wrap the calf strap once around the leg iron it keeps them from moving back and forth on your leg , They should be tight enough to almost cut off the circulation and your padding should fall between your knee and your calf muscle that way when the muscle flexes they stay put..I also have put wash clothes on my calf pads from time to time between the pad and my leg for a little extra padding they bite into your pants and the leather and old towel would work the same ..



I have the velcro wrap, knee pads I used for baseball that I wrap underneath the pads to keep from getting bruises. There cheap. I bought them at Wal-Mart.

I've got my pads at about mid calf, but it reads like you climb your pads as high as you can go below the knee. That's the best way then?


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 12, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> I have the velcro wrap, knee pads I used for baseball that I wrap underneath the pads to keep from getting bruises. There cheap. I bought them at Wal-Mart.
> 
> I've got my pads at about mid calf, but it reads like you climb your pads as high as you can go below the knee. That's the best way then?



The top of my pad is right at the bottom of my knee , The straps sit above the largest part of my calf muscle this keeps them tight to my boot , I like them real tight then my leg doesn't get chaffed..


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## fishercat (Sep 12, 2010)

*actually......*



ForTheAction said:


> Sounds good. Have you tried all of these?



I have been using the Velcro wraps for about 5 years.I love them.I tried the geckos and they were nice but were not set up for me.I would buy a set.never used the aluminum ones but I don't see how they wouldn't be an improvement over what you have now.I just can't see how anyone can live with those leather pads.


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## fishercat (Sep 12, 2010)

*gee.....*






treeclimber101 said:


> There not tight enough , you may also wanna try to wrap the calf strap once around the leg iron it keeps them from moving back and forth on your leg , They should be tight enough to almost cut off the circulation and your padding should fall between your knee and your calf muscle that way when the muscle flexes they stay put..I also have put wash clothes on my calf pads from time to time between the pad and my leg for a little extra padding they bite into your pants and the leather and old towel would work the same ..



Sure sounds like a lot of work just to be comfortable.no thanks.I like throw them on Anne go.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 12, 2010)

fishercat said:


> Sure sounds like a lot of work just to be comfortable.no thanks.I like throw them on Anne go.



ITs just a preference for me I have the pads too , didn't like them they felt loose and the saw dust buildup made me itch and burn , I like my spikes so tight that my feet go numb , plus they stay with my boot...


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## lego1970 (Sep 12, 2010)

I had a cop do something similiar to me once. As someone had mentioned it was a civil matter so he was way out of line. At first I was all "yes sir, no sir" but he kept going on and on. Finally I just lost it and then somehow the tables turned and I was dominating the conversation. He, nor the other person ever bothered me again. 

I think you did the right thing and hopefully coming on here to rant made you feel better.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 12, 2010)

I feel better.
Jeff


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 12, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I feel better.
> Jeff



Why did you hit a bus load of nuns ???


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 12, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> Why did you hit a bus load of nuns ???



You are Weird! I expected better! Haha.
Jeff


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 12, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> You are Weird! I expected better! Haha.
> Jeff



Better or funnier theres a big difference?Sorry that I hurt your delicate feelings I forgot it was sunday..


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 12, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> Better or funnier theres a big difference?Sorry that I hurt your delicate feelings I forgot it was sunday..



I accept yor apology and feel better!
Jeff


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## Greystoke (Sep 12, 2010)

lego1970 said:


> I had a cop do something similiar to me once. As someone had mentioned it was a civil matter so he was way out of line. At first I was all "yes sir, no sir" but he kept going on and on. Finally I just lost it and then somehow the tables turned and I was dominating the conversation. He, nor the other person ever bothered me again.
> 
> I think you did the right thing and hopefully coming on here to rant made you feel better.



I think so do, and I think I would have done the same in your situation...and it did feel good to rant


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## Hddnis (Sep 12, 2010)

Wow! Funny way threads turn and twist. LOL

Cody, The guy that called you could end up in a world of hurt trying to fall back on having been an Lt. in Army way back when. A cull like that needs a pruning he'll remember. You were way nice about it and that is NOT a bad thing at all. You did good.

Being a cop myself I know that the first thing you do is fully identify yourself and your agency and your legal basis for being involved. Anything less and you own all the trouble you get yourself in.


On one occasion I had a neighbor getting mad at me about "damage" he said we had caused. I knew that his falling down shed was there before hand and had zero, zilch, nada, to do with the tree we took down. He gets all connected and authoritative sounding, implying that he held some rank in local law enforcement. Poor SOB didn't know I was sworn LEO doing tree work off duty; and I pretty well recognized all the cops around to boot.

I pushed him a little, hoping he'd just make an outright claim, but he never did. Then I told him that he was violating the law about inpersonating an officer. I told him the jail time that carried. I told him he knew the shed was already damaged and he would not scam me or my company. I had that guy crawling and saying how sorry he was in a few short minutes. Never did tell him I was cop; I always like to hold a little something in reserve. 



Mr. HE


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## tree md (Sep 12, 2010)

Here is something that I have learned: 

Always do an assessment before you begin work and look for dings in gutters, shingle damage, falling down shed, whatnot. Not only on your clients property but on the neighboring property. Especially if you are having to lower stuff from over the neighboring property. If you see anything that they could claim as damage, GET PICS BEFORE HAND!!! Try to get them with the tree in the forefront before you touch it. I carry a camera with me for insurance claims on storm work. I'll often take pics of the damage for my clients and sometimes will deal directly with the agent on faxing the pics and even pricing the job. It always pays to keep a camera handy in our line of work.


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## Greystoke (Sep 12, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> Wow! Funny way threads turn and twist. LOL
> 
> Cody, The guy that called you could end up in a world of hurt trying to fall back on having been an Lt. in Army way back when. A cull like that needs a pruning he'll remember. You were way nice about it and that is NOT a bad thing at all. You did good.
> 
> ...



I love calling people on their b.s.! I bet that was fun!


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## prentice110 (Sep 13, 2010)

nice lil old lady has me kill a red oak for her end of july-early aug. nice as pie. tell her cant come back for the logs were doin a brush clear out literally rigth aronud the corner. told her where wed be. got done to see theres 4 missed calls on the cell. she threw a hissy fit. called back 3 weeks later wantin me to remove a snapped cable in another oak 4 nothing. told her with a smile on my face , we get paid to put em up, and to take em down. Cheap arse old folks always pisd the world changed on em and want a deal on ev thang


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 13, 2010)

prentice110 said:


> nice lil old lady has me kill a red oak for her end of july-early aug. nice as pie. tell her cant come back for the logs were doin a brush clear out literally rigth aronud the corner. told her where wed be. got done to see theres 4 missed calls on the cell. she threw a hissy fit. called back 3 weeks later wantin me to remove a snapped cable in another oak 4 nothing. told her with a smile on my face , we get paid to put em up, and to take em down. Cheap arse old folks always pisd the world changed on em and want a deal on ev thang



Please elaborate.
Jeff 
I can't believe I was actually able to read that!


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## bitzer (Sep 14, 2010)

I know how ya feel Cody. You want to have the job done right. 

I'm just starting out and learning really quick that itemizing every frickin detail about the job really pays off. Having it all in writing and having them sign off. I also take pics when anything is questionable. In the end all they really care about is making it look like nothing happened. I give every one the same rates for the job. To me its what is going to take to get it done and make something at the end of the day. 

I did one at a condo complex a few weeks ago where 3 people from the condo association and I literally narrowed 4-5 branches down on each tree to be removed. It went like "should we take this branch, no that branch," and so on. We looked over 6 trees and what should have taken about 15 min ran for over an hour. I just sat there quietly taking notes, thinking wow this outa be interesting. They also insisted several times that the residents would drag branches to the curb for the city to pick up. I told them I would rather just do the work and they insisted. I said ok and wrote all the specifics down and had them sign. Day of the job comes and the president of the association does help drag branches on the first tree, but disappears during the second. No one else shows up. She also had me take down a lot more than what they agreed on. Well, who could have guessed it. She was the final say so I felt comfortable doing it. I figured the cost the same if I was doing all the work or not and it turned out I did do the majority of it. Whatever, in the end I got paid and everyone "seemed" happy.


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## tree md (Sep 14, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> I know how ya feel Cody. You want to have the job done right.
> 
> I'm just starting out and learning really quick that itemizing every frickin detail about the job really pays off. Having it all in writing and having them sign off. I also take pics when anything is questionable. In the end all they really care about is making it look like nothing happened. I give every one the same rates for the job. To me its what is going to take to get it done and make something at the end of the day.
> 
> I did one at a condo complex a few weeks ago where 3 people from the condo association and I literally narrowed 4-5 branches down on each tree to be removed. It went like "should we take this branch, no that branch," and so on. We looked over 6 trees and what should have taken about 15 min ran for over an hour. I just sat there quietly taking notes, thinking wow this outa be interesting. They also insisted several times that the residents would drag branches to the curb for the city to pick up. I told them I would rather just do the work and they insisted. I said ok and wrote all the specifics down and had them sign. Day of the job comes and the president of the association does help drag branches on the first tree, but disappears during the second. No one else shows up. She also had me take down a lot more than what they agreed on. Well, who could have guessed it. She was the final say so I felt comfortable doing it. I figured the cost the same if I was doing all the work or not and it turned out I did do the majority of it. Whatever, in the end I got paid and everyone "seemed" happy.



If they try to insist on helping with the job you need to take control of the negotiations at that point and tell them that it is against company policy due to liability issues. That usually shuts them up on that one.


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## pdqdl (Sep 14, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> ... It went like "should we take this branch, no that branch," and so on. We looked over 6 trees and what should have taken about 15 min ran for over an hour...



I had an incident much like that yesterday. 

My biggest customer asked me to very carefully prune a couple of trees in a prominent landscape feature downtown. _Sure! No Problem._

The property manager was DEEPLY concerned that too much might be cut off of four little-leaf lindens that were only about 15' tall. Every single branch was handpicked, despite my suggestions to do more. _OK, I don't mind._ 

Well...I didn't mind too much, despite the fact that he was picking teeny little branches that didn't matter, while ignoring larger (1") branches that were crossing & rubbing, or otherwise should have been pruned out. 

I spent as much time with my leatherman using the 3" sawblade as I did with the 18" long handsaw. You see, my handsaw has trouble cutting off 3/8" caliper branches, and I didn't dare break them off!


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## bitzer (Sep 14, 2010)

tree md said:


> If they try to insist on helping with the job you need to take control of the negotiations at that point and tell them that it is against company policy due to liability issues. That usually shuts them up on that one.



I will be pulling that one out in the future. Thanks. I've already had too many things left on the table that the client was supposed to take care of. 

Last winter I put a 36" dbh willow onto the ice. Before the job, I was told about all of these neighbors that wanted firewood. I was also told by the owner that they would burn the branches out on the ice. I'm thinking this will be sweet. I can chunk up the big stuff and skid it out to the landing and limb and buck the rest for burning and firewood. Loaded the pieces onto the flatbed and away I went! Well the lake association got wind of it and a couple of days later I was getting rid of the rest, this time with no heavy equip. and draggin it all up hill. Ended up going back out there again for the really little stuff, because they didn't want that going in the lake. Frickin dying crack willow. LOTS of little stuff in the melting snow and ice. 

Now I put the option in the contract, price with total log removal or owner retention of the logs and I always get rid of everything else. Well, that is until a couple of weeks ago. I guess it takes me two times to learn. I'd rather get rid of everything any way. That way I know its done and how I want it to be. 


Btw: just starting on the tree service side of things. I've been felling and thinning and clearing for years. Tree service is a different world. Wtf is a rake? ha. ha.


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## tree md (Sep 14, 2010)

Here's where I see a lot of guys who are new to the business make a mistake: They price a job for the best case scenario. That's never a good idea. People will promise to take firewood and all kinds of things that will not materialize a lot of the time.

I got a call from a young guy last Memorial Day weekend. He was a manager for one of the local line clearance contractors. His company is a pretty large contractor and his job is mostly scheduling crews and making sure they have everything they need to get the job done. He is also a climber. Pretty sharp young guy in his early 20's. He had gotten in over his head doing some moonlighting in a town that is about 20 miles out of the city. He was from an area over an hour and a half away. He figured he could do the job over the holiday and be finished in time to get back to his regular job on Tuesday. He had access to company equipment and employees. He was splitting the money with the guys he had asked to do the job with him. All young guys. Well, the climber he was working with put the trees on the ground then split. The guy who drove the chipper truck backed out on him and chose to party over the weekend instead. That left him on his own to get all the wood and brush out of there and he is in an area far from home with no contacts. To make matters worse, this was at a manufacturing company and he had to have the parking lot cleared by Tuesday when everyone came back to work. He was between a rock and a hard place. He called me and asked about my ad for 24 hour emergency service and asked if I could work the Holiday. I said sure. He wanted me to come out and chip all the brush. I went out and looked at it and told him $500. About a half day of work and I was trying to give him a break and help him out. Normally I would have charged more for emergency service and working the Holiday. He said he couldn't do it. Said he didn't have $500 left in the job. I don't know what he was expecting me to do. I would have liked to have helped him out but I can't do charity work for the guy.

I have standardized prices. If someone picks up some firewood or something else works out by providence that is great... But I don't count on it.

Price your jobs for the worst case scenario and put it in writing. If the HO, HOA, property manager or whoever says that they are going to handle the wood tell them that's great, here's the price if you handle it that way. However, be sure to have it in black and white on the same page that it is going to cost this much if that situation don't work out and I have to deal with or touch the wood.


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## NORTREE (Sep 14, 2010)

I USED to give Senior Citizen Discounts but we don't now. Most of the people that wanted the senior citizen discount lived in million dollar and up homes...and those that didn't were the first to complain about anything when the job was done. A friend of mine(in the excavating business) told me he learned long ago that he had give a lot of "little old lady" discounts because they claimed poverty then they left hundreds of thousands of dollars and millions to the church when they died...if anyone deserves a discount its the young people starting out.
At this stage in my life if this guy had called me misrepresenting himself and threatening I WOULD go after him and his job...sorry to say it but after all these years of people screwing me over I am done with it!


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## prentice110 (Sep 14, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Please elaborate.
> Jeff
> I can't believe I was actually able to read that!



Wow. way too many old styles and gin an tonics last night. cant believe the spelling was as good as it was. I had too chip more brush at another job and only had one truck with a hitch. Told her id be back later with the bobcat to get the logs out. I was half an hour later than i said id be cuz the next job added on twice the work and she called 4 times with fire shootin out her eyeballz.


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## Hddnis (Sep 14, 2010)

On the topic of old people...

I started out working for old folks doing lawn care at a tender young age. They all knew the family and all were honest and paid well, bonuses at Christmas time etc. I helped them out with all kinds of odd jobs and thought they were great.

Fast forward a few years and based on that good experience starting out I decide to market to senior citizens. The marketing generated a lot of business for me and very little profit. On the whole old people are whiney, know-it-all, lazy, tightwads. My opinion of the "greatest generation" is that they are just about the worst bunch of losers this country ever had. Exceptions do exist, I worked for plenty of those too; but the majority were not worth the hassle at all. On average it was better to work for young people and wait sixty days to get paid in full!

I could go on for days with stories...




Mr. HE


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## bitzer (Sep 15, 2010)

tree md said:


> Price your jobs for the worst case scenario and put it in writing. If the HO, HOA, property manager or whoever says that they are going to handle the wood tell them that's great, here's the price if you handle it that way. However, be sure to have it in black and white on the same page that it is going to cost this much if that situation don't work out and I have to deal with or touch the wood.



Thanks for the tip! Thats what I have done since that willow fiasco. I have a spot right on the qoute sheet for price discount if the owner wants to keep the firewood. I have them sign on what we agreed upon and make very clear what firewood means if they want to keep it. ie: 30" rounds that are 16-18" long if that is the case. I also make clear of what handling means and if I do where it should go. I have also been pricing for the worst case. If things go well, then I'm ahead. If not well then I squeak. I have a standard base cost for stump grinding too. I've already ran into too many surprises that kill the bottom line on that. Thanks again.


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