# Expansion during second year - Equipment vs Advertising



## [email protected] (May 24, 2015)

Hi all,
I've crept the forums here for a while, and finally have a question worth asking.... I was wondering if some of you could lend a little expertise as you've been through this already and are now successful in the tree business!

I'm currently certified as an arborist through the ISA and in good standing. I also have 2 million in liability insurance, and 1 full time, along with 2 part time employees (who work as groundies), and I do all the climbing... We are all covered by WSIB. I have 2 husky saws (395 and a 353) that have served me well, along with a Sthil 201T. I have all clean up supplies needed, a good pruner, and the best climbing gear. I also have sufficient rigging rope, along with an arborist block (need a porter wrap asap). I use my personal vehicle (ford explorer), to tow a 5x10 trailer with 4' walls, which does ok, but is obviously not ideal. I have been collecting testomonials from each client, have many pictures, and a few videos for a website when the time comes, and I have an online add on kijiji.ca, along with yard signs on the way.

I get about two calls each day for quotes and business has been steady. Many have been repeat customers, and many have also just seen my add or heard of my company via word of mouth. I'm receiving an expansion grant of $5000 from the city to expand my business, and was wondering what in you're opinion would be the best investment!
A website? shirts? a small stump grinder? a dump trailer? a bigger used stump grinder? a few more saws so that I have the right saw for the right job?

Even without the grant these are questions that will come, but I'm curious what you guys with the experience who have been through this would do in my situation with a 5k limit.
Thanks for the response, feel free to toss in some sarcasm 
Have a great day!


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## KrisSchmandt (Jun 5, 2015)

It sounds like you are off to a great start! It also sounds like you have a steady trickle of business. I have 2 somewhat conflicting suggestions for you. I started a landscaping company in similar fashion 15 years ago, as soon as it made any sense at all I started buying equipment, mostly on the cheap. Equipment was my downfall. I was young and dumb, figured the more equipment I had the more jobs I'd be able to take on. I financed a decent 18k huge skidsteer (New Holland LS190), had to be big enough to move 3500# pallets of block so that we could do all those hardscape jobs... but wait, I'd done 1. I was also going to start selling bulk materials, mulch, chips, stone, I did have a good location. In the end I now had a big payment each month and didn't have near the work to back it up. As to the rest of my "equipment" I spent more time working on it than I did working with it (actually earning $).

On the flip side, I didn't see you mention a chipper or chip truck. Trying to stack and haul brush takes forever (not to mention getting rid of it) and (if the work is there) you could probably be at least twice as productive by adding these two basic tree service necessities. Beyond that I'd advertize until you get so swamped that you have no choice but to start renting or even buy a bucket truck. In my opinion there is simply no comparison in speed and safety between climbing and a bucket truck (when you have access of course). Not to mention the professional image a couple big lettered trucks gives. 

When you start your marketing, be sure to TRACK EVERYTHING. If you can't see traceable results from your ad spend then you are wasting money! It sounds like you are off to a great start. Good luck and have fun growing your new business!


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2015)

Thanks for the advice Kris! Financing some equipment was certainly a thought, although really waiting until I NEED it makes much more sense. I guess if it does come down to needing to be swamped enough to have the equipment, advertising would be the way to go for now. 
I don't have a chipper dump or chipper, so I guess that'll be the first major investment I make.

As for advertising tracking, I have each customer fill out a customer satisfaction sheet with
-name
-number
-company
-where you found us
-testimonial
-other comments

I couldn't agree more that tracking advertising is crucial, I was very surprised to see that a lot of business was coming from flyers I'd handed out the previous year that people held on to.

Thanks again, 
good luck to yourself as well!


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## Jed1124 (Jun 5, 2015)

I would go with a good website. Ours has generated the bulk of our leads. You can always hire more guys and buy more equipment, but you need the work to support them.


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## Eagleknight (Jun 5, 2015)

I would also suggest the website and to expand on that... From a 31 year old consumer usually my first search is on Google maps to see what is local for a service like this. Make sure you are listed on Google and Bing maps.


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## [email protected] (Jun 6, 2015)

Eagleknight said:


> I would also suggest the website and to expand on that... From a 31 year old consumer usually my first search is on Google maps to see what is local for a service like this. Make sure you are listed on Google and Bing maps.


I have been told this... that I need to get "popping" on google. Is this a free service I just need to set up (I'm slightly behind with these things)? Also, as per the website, I have been taking before and after pictures of jobs, testimonials from clients, some action shots, and jotting down some FAQ's I can add to the site once it's up. If you don't mind me asking, what did you invest into your website monetarily? I haven't been given an actual estimate yet, just told these things will help fill the website, and I'm curious as to the cost...
It definitely stands to reason that if I am looking to get swamped,than logically a good, professional website, and my company name, and phone number, on google maps and bing are the next steps.
Thank you Jed, I plan investing enough money and enough time into the website to make it look professional, it's nice to hear that it won't be a waste at all!
Thanks for your insight as well Eagleknight!


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## Eagleknight (Jun 6, 2015)

I don't think there is any cost getting on maps. Only if you want to advertised or be featured. 
http://www.business2community.com/social-business/add-business-google-maps-01094521


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## KrisSchmandt (Jun 8, 2015)

Ryan, 

Be really careful when looking at website providers and always remember you don't need a website, you need RANKINGS. "A website" is simply a digital business card, without rankings (Google, maps/local, and Yahoo/Bing) and visitors the most attractive website won't get you a single customer. You can spend anywhere from nothing to thousands of $ on design but in the end those rankings are what will make YOU money. Obviously without a website you can't get rankings but the point is don't dump thousands into design, if you are going to spend money make sure its on optimizing and ranking your site/maps listing. 

Stay away from the "big" companies, like YP, Hibu, AT&T, Yodel and the like you don't have to search these forums long to find horror stories about the likes of them. I'd suggest going local (if you have a competent SEO company locally) or talking to me (but of course I'm biased). I've been in the landscape and tree industry since the 90's and also have been doing site design/SEO on the side. As far as I know I'm the only ISA Certified Arborist offering SEO, lol. I don't want to link to my site here and look spamy but feel free to pm me and I'd be happy to give you a call and give you what advice I can, whatever direction you decide to go. 

Another big thing to keep in mind is the size of your service area. If you are in a larger city you could get flooded with calls from a website that ranks well. In a town of 10k people, you probably shouldn't worry about all of this. 

Good luck!


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## [email protected] (Jun 8, 2015)

KrisSchmandt said:


> Ryan,
> 
> Be really careful when looking at website providers and always remember you don't need a website, you need RANKINGS. "A website" is simply a digital business card, without rankings (Google, maps/local, and Yahoo/Bing) and visitors the most attractive website won't get you a single customer. You can spend anywhere from nothing to thousands of $ on design but in the end those rankings are what will make YOU money. Obviously without a website you can't get rankings but the point is don't dump thousands into design, if you are going to spend money make sure its on optimizing and ranking your site/maps listing.
> 
> ...


I'm obviously out in left field on this one, as I'm not sure what rankings, a SEO, are at all. I have been talking to the same guy that does all my graphic design projects, but he's never mentioned this (that being said we're not at the point of building the site just yet). I'm super busy and will absolutely pm you sometime this week when work winds down if that's alright.

Also thanks for the heads of Eagleknight, I appreciate that, it all seems simple enough for the pay off it should give


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## KrisSchmandt (Jun 8, 2015)

Sorry to use "Jargon" SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization. Its just the process of getting your website to rank better. Most people assume that just having a website will make people call them. What I am saying is that if no one can find your site it won't do a darn thing to generate business for you. So naturally a whole industry has sprung up around "ranking websites", lol. 

If you don't know what you are looking for/at its really easy to get burned. Feel free to hit me with questions when you get to that point. I'm sure for every website "success story" you find you could find ten "this company screwed me" stories. I actually have one client, my first one actually, who told me he spent $30-$40k before he found us and had never gotten good results. I don't know about you but I don't have that kind of money to burn through.


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