# gypsy moth



## Tim Krause (Apr 5, 2007)

anybody out there controling gypsy moth? we are just starting a spray program and i was looking for some advise on pricing. any input would be helpfull.


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## ATH (Apr 5, 2007)

Are you spraying _Bt_ onto the crown?


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## kevinj (Apr 5, 2007)

ATH said:


> Are you spraying _Bt_ onto the crown?



NOTE:
Bt will only work, if it is ingested.
It causes paralysis of the digestive system.


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## woodville (Apr 6, 2007)

The safest and most effective product by far has been Spinosad "conserve". It is relatively fast acting on all caterpillars and a host of other insects. Set a minimum price and then a gallons/minutes price scale. Break down what the cost per gallon dilute then what you want for profit off that. Set the minutes up in 10 minute price breakdown slowly reducing the cost per minute as the time increases. This system once dialed in is every effective and easy to bid if you have the ability to gage time and material. If you are bidding against other larger Co. in your area you will find your profit margin is still high and your prices are very competitive.


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## Tim Krause (Apr 9, 2007)

woodville said:


> The safest and most effective product by far has been Spinosad "conserve". It is relatively fast acting on all caterpillars and a host of other insects. Set a minimum price and then a gallons/minutes price scale. Break down what the cost per gallon dilute then what you want for profit off that. Set the minutes up in 10 minute price breakdown slowly reducing the cost per minute as the time increases. This system once dialed in is every effective and easy to bid if you have the ability to gage time and material. If you are bidding against other larger Co. in your area you will find your profit margin is still high and your prices are very competitive.



thanks. there are only 2 companies in the area. i heard bt is less toxic but less effective. what kind of spray rig do you use?


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## woodville (Apr 10, 2007)

Bean 1000Gal split tank with a 660 pump and Wisconsin typical set up. Hydro cell makes and excellent pump as well as udor. The larger hypro set up is less reliable in my opinion. Bean has been making excellent pumps for decade and most are still running.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 10, 2007)

If you look around for agricultural sprayer companies you will find that many are going into green industry market too.

What kind of rig depends on what hight you ewant to hit with minimal drift.



> Natural Predators
> Vertebrate predators such as birds account for most of the mortality in low density populations, so any disruption of bird habitat, especially food sources, will affect this predation.



This is from a Cornell study on Btk. 

One thing I have noticed with pherimone traps in the open is that many arial feeding birds will be active in the area when males are flying.

Place pherimone traps in the middle of clients yards and thay can watch the birds eat the moths as they fly around the traps.


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## woodville (Apr 10, 2007)

If birds or any other native specie could control this introduced parasite this thread would not have been started. Granted it has only been a problem for 40+ years but I have not seen birds as an adequate control yet. Just my observation.


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## Ed Roland (Apr 11, 2007)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> One thing I have noticed with pherimone traps in the open is that many arial feeding birds will be active in the area when males are flying.
> 
> Place pherimone traps in the middle of clients yards and thay can watch the birds eat the moths as they fly around the traps.



Gypsy moths descend on host trees to molt and pupate. They, commonly, lay their eggs on the trunk or at the base of trees in midsummer. 
Perhaps, fewer gypsy moths are better than more gypsy moths.

Pherimone traps attract the insect to the lanscape, increasing the population more than would have been otherwise. Buy your Pherimone trap but give it to a neighbor that lives 10 houses away.

just my thoughts on a good thread.


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## kevinj (Apr 11, 2007)

Tim Krause said:


> anybody out there controling gypsy moth? we are just starting a spray program and i was looking for some advise on pricing. any input would be helpfull.



You should consider a garlic spray program.
This will act as a camoflage for the host species.


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## ATH (Apr 11, 2007)

Garlic spray the entire canopy of a yard full of trees???


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## kevinj (Apr 11, 2007)

ATH said:


> Garlic spray the entire canopy of a yard full of trees???



If you have a full yard of infestation, Your neighbors should also.
An aerial spray would help.
However why not spray as many trees as possible with the garlic, and see if
you notice a difference. And then somehow pass the info. on to your local county extension office. That what I try to do to get the message around about the benifits of the garlic camo. spray. 
Note; the spray does not have to reach yhe canopy to be effective.
Spray mostly the trunk and as much of the foliage as you can.
I also add liquid seaweed. This helps as being a systemic. 
It's very important to spray before any egglaying. 
This works great on birch leaf miners also. Spray in earl May. Then 7 -10 days later.


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## ATH (Apr 11, 2007)

So if the target is to spray before egg laying, is the goal to reduce egg masses - therefore reducing future populations? Probably won't do much for this year's problems, right? But the fact is that often people start to cry about GM when it is too late to do anything this year anyhow...


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## woodville (Apr 12, 2007)

kevinj said:


> You should consider a garlic spray program.
> This will act as a camoflage for the host species.



Can you give me a brief explanation on how this approach works and why?


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## Ed Roland (Apr 12, 2007)

If u r opposed 2 chemicals, try this:

Tie a foot-wide strip of burlap or other coarse cloth loosely around the trunk of the host tree, using a peice of twine across the center of the cloth.
Drape the upper half of the cloth over the lower half.
When the larvae descend the tree to molt or to pupate and hide in the folds of the cloth, collect and destroy them.

Gypsy moth has one generation per year.


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## Ed Roland (Apr 12, 2007)

Try controling this pest down low instead of spraying the entire crown with pesticide and the associated drift.

Hort. oil @ 3% rate on the trunk will smother the egg masses in mid to late summer. Know that the eggs will be found under loose bark and fallen leaves and other debris.


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## woodville (Apr 12, 2007)

woodweasel said:


> Try controlling this pest down low instead of spraying the entire crown with pesticide and the associated drift.
> 
> Hort. oil @ 3% rate on the trunk will smother the egg masses in mid to late summer. Know that the eggs will be found under loose bark and fallen leaves and other debris.



Effectiveness of oil on egg masses is inadequate at best. Burlap around the trunk will offer about the same amount of results. Conceder how the "pesticide" works and what it targets. I hate to say it but some chemical manufactures actually saw how public outcry and the industry was headed along time ago and started to research and produce products that actually only target specific targets in exclusive ways. Hort oil "petroleum based" actually will kill just about any insect it comes into contact with both good and bad. Do your research, ask questions, and test if needed to find out what works.


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## kevinj (Apr 12, 2007)

woodville said:


> Can you give me a brief explanation on how this approach works and why?



The best I can offer now is to: Google "garlic sprays on trees"
Sorry I couldn't help you more.


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## Ed Roland (Apr 12, 2007)

woodville said:


> Conceder how the "pesticide" works and what it targets. I hate to say it but some chemical manufactures actually saw how public outcry and the industry was headed along time ago and started to research and produce products that actually only target specific targets in exclusive ways. Hort oil "petroleum based" actually will kill just about any insect it comes into contact with both good and bad. Do your research, ask questions, and test if needed to find out what works.



Woodville, you are brave to officially come out against horticulture oil.

I submit to you that the highly refined baby oil that we use in horticulture has a much smaller impact on the environment than your broadcast of PESTICIDE into the canopy of the tree with runoff and drift. 

A good health care technician knows how to properly discourage populations without "nuking" the tree or the immediate environment. 

Dont rely on the 'magic spray' into the canopy as the panacea for pest control. The magic "gypsy moth ONLY" spray. Think holistic. 

You claim Horticulture oil is a petroleum based indescrimate killer while _Conserve_ targets the gypsy moth only. You and everyone on this thread knows _Conserve_ is a true pesticide, killing several specie of insect and having a long residual on the tree. Often the oil is added to the _Conserve_ spray @ 1% for surfaction.
You, should try some research, ask from those whom can teach, and perform tests to qualify your knowledge.


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## woodville (Apr 13, 2007)

Hate to break the news to ya weasel but I in no way said anything that wasn't true or came out in anyway against Hort oil. Properly applied products should have very little drift or run off, oil,BT, Compost tea, or any other product you are using to help control a problem. If you consider using a product like conserve as "nuking" the tree or the environment fine, don't use them. I know that trying to get coverage with Hort oil on egg masses is not effective or "holistic", burlap around the trunk not to effective ether. Never claimed Conserve targets only gypsy moths but you have to admit compared to Hort oil or most other products out their it is a hell of a lot more host specific,Bio rational, and environmentally friendly. Yes it is a product that kills hence the name insecticide. A magic bullet, no but it is really very safe and highly effective. I know this from extensive tests and research, I'm still looking for a better product or alternative. Now back to the beginning, If you are looking to control devastating introduce insect populations safely and effectively I recommend Conserve.


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## Ed Roland (Apr 13, 2007)

Woodsy, is right! 
There is only ONE way to control this vile pest.
Fire up your spray rig, boost her up to about 300psi, don your rubber gloves, full face shield, tyvex suit and rubber boots and spray that tree with _Conserve_ or _Talstar_ or _Pyronyl_ or _Onyx_ or even try _Dendrex capsules_.

You will acheive control and you can even bill @ appx. $130 hr. for the isolated spray.

"*you have to admit compared to Hort oil or most other products out their it is a hell of a lot more host specific,Bio rational, and environmentally friendly*." - *woodville*, claiming the environmental impact of an insecticide such as _Conserve_ being sprayed onto the canopy is less than horticulture oil applied to the base of the trunk.

We should all sleep better knowing woodville has a spray rig and a jobbox full of "safe" insecticides.

go get em, tiger. :sword:


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## woodville (Apr 13, 2007)

Weasel your getting way off topic now. If you can sell a trunk spray of Hort oil to a client with a strait face in mid to late summer after the tree has been defoliated good for you. If you honestly believe this alone will be an effective control go get your money. Hort oil is a great product with many benefits however effectively controlling Lepidoptra is not one of them. Sure I could use any one of the products you listed in your last post or even more toxic ones like allot of my competition still due. However I choose to use based on my research and experience the most bio-rational and effective product available. So fire up your spray rig, boost her up to about 300psi, don your rubber gloves, full face shield, tyvex suit and rubber boots and spray that trunk with oil. I'm sure you will have many happy and satisfied customers.


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## Ed Roland (Apr 13, 2007)

Nope, been fun jousting with u, woodville.
I sell and apply _Conserve_ to my customers infested trees just like everyone else. After Mr. JPS posted the pherimone bird control idea I started a post that started with "If you are opposed to chemicals try this:" and it went from there. 

Then came your 'elitist' comment about how we should "Do your research, ask questions, and test if needed to find out what works." 

Anyway, excellent control can be acheived by applying conserve @ 6 ounces per 100 gallons as a foliar spray after eggs have hatched. Know that 80-90% of defoliation will occur in the last week of caterpillar feeding. You can also look into selling soil mgnt. for defoliated trees ie, fertilization, watering and mulching, as they are recommended to aid in tree recovery. These are 'value added' techniques that you can feel good about selling to your customers.


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