# when to throw in the towel



## spencerhenry (Dec 8, 2009)

i delivered a face cord of wood to a woman in aspen a week and a half ago. it was half aspen, half red oak. the oak i buy, but load and then stack myself, the aspen i cut, split, load and unload, by hand. when i load the truck, the ugly dirty, wet, or otherwise crappy pieces get tossed away. the aspen i loaded for her was from the sunny side of the pile, had been cut and split long enough ago that some of it was starting to turn silver, it is dry wood for sure. two days after i delivered the wood, she calls me and says that the wood wont burn, that she puts a bunch of georgia fat wood and a few pieces of firewood in the fireplace and it just smokes and then dies out. i suggested that she try some of the firestarters that you can buy at the grocery store, the waxy, oily bricks that look like they are made of sawdust. several days go by and i get another call from her, she says she has spent over $50 on firestarter and still cant get it to burn, she even hired some brown boy to "clean" the wood. he tells her that the wood is the dirtiest he has ever seen, and that it is full of bugs. he tells her that the bugs are a mite that birds carry, and the wood is covered with them. now i have sold thousands of face cords of wood over the years, and hand cut, split, load and stack all of it. i have seen an occasional beetle, caterpillar, or spider, but all the bugs i have ever found wouldnt fill a pint glass. also having hand loaded and then stacked all this wood, i know it isnt covered in dirt. i told her that aspen bark when it decays creates a gritty black "dirt", but that is wood, it has bark on it. but the reality is, that this wood was CLEAN, alot of it had no bark, all of it was dry. so tomorrow i am going 10 miles each way out of my way to take her some kindling. but i have told her that i want to see how she is building the fire, because i have NEVER had anyone have this problem before. in fact, most of my customers are either referrals, or repeat customers, and several customers have already burned enough wood, that they have called back and ordered more. 
i have spent at least an hour and a half on the phone with her, every time she leaves me a message, it is about 5 minutes long. in the half hour long conversation with her today about bugs, she told me that she used 2 of the firestarter bricks and still could get a fire going. last night at the neighbor ladys house, i used 1/16th of a brick, 3 small pieces of pine edgings, and 2 large pieces of split aspen. i lit the firestarter and walked away, 10 minutes later i poked at the pieces of wood, and another 5 minutes later it was a roaring fire. 1/16th of a brick is about 1.25" cubed, not much. 
i hate to just ignore her, but i am about to get to that point. i told her that tomorrow i would bring my moisture meter and check the wood, and if it is wet, i will replace it. but i checked a dozen or more random pieces tonight in my pile, the highest meter reading i got was on a piece of pine at 17%, most of the pieces checked were at 11 or 12%.


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## Ductape (Dec 8, 2009)

If it were me, i'd go back with cash in hand, and load up the wood and give her a refund. I'd also never have any wood available should she ever call again. I assure you....... she is the type that will NEVER be happy no matter what you do for her.


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## Woodcutteranon (Dec 8, 2009)

Ugh...This takes me back to when I was a landlord. Look lady, I'm not Wal-Mart. Gheez

You have your finger on the pulse better than me. I would support your decision to drive back there and haul every last bit of that wood out of her house and give her the money back. Its just money after all...this won't make you or break you in the long run. Then again...if you told her to take a hike I would support you decision as well. Maybe if you are over there you should take a few pics for your own defense if she takes you to small claims court.

The more I think of it I would go get that wood and sell it to someone else...someone who is worthy to burn your fine work.


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## loadthestove (Dec 8, 2009)

As all have said,give her money back,load wood and come home.I have done this a few times with some of my customers over the years.in the long run you will be better off.


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## spencerhenry (Dec 8, 2009)

she has been nice, just a pain. i will give her that option tomorrow. at first i thought she might just be calling me because she wanted ME to come back to her house. it has happened before, hell thats how i met my last girlfriend. but it has gone on too long for it to be her wanting to get me inside her house. i am not usually a very patient person, but for some reason i have been very patient with her. if she still has a problem after tomorrow, i will offer her money back, or just move on. i just hate driving all the way to aspen, the sales are slow enough that i only need to go up there about once a week or less. it is about 75 miles round trip.


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## Iska3 (Dec 8, 2009)

Ductape said:


> If it were me, i'd go back with cash in hand, and load up the wood and give her a refund. I'd also never have any wood available should she ever call again. I assure you....... she is the type that will NEVER be happy no matter what you do for her.



Makes a person wonder why she didn't go back to the place where she got it last year. Some people play mind games just to get a discount. They see someone else selling wood for less and think it will be the same as yours. 

My good name would be worth more than a load of wood. Load it up and someone else will be buying it down the line for more than what she paid for it. 

Oh! Bring a can of bug spray with you. That lady needs help... I hope she doesn't have a husband.. Poor Guy!!


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## cornbread (Dec 8, 2009)

I'd go back with cash in hand, and load up the wood and give her a refund. I'd also never have any wood available should she ever call again also.


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## trapshooter9 (Dec 8, 2009)

It sounds to me like she just doesn't know much about building fires or wood. I've never heard of anyone "cleaning" their firewood. 

I would go over there and watch her try to build a fire. Then show her the right way to do it. If the wood lights up, problem solved. If she still isn't satisfied, or if it wont light up, buy the wood back from her.


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## wkpoor (Dec 8, 2009)

This is in Aspen right?....... where all the rich people live ?????....... should I say more?.....


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## Bass (Dec 8, 2009)

is she using a wood stove or fire place? when was the last time she had the chimney cleaned - could be a draft issue 

heck if you've been nice so far why not light a fire and see what happens 

or give her a refund


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## Cambium (Dec 8, 2009)

Real Easy:

Tell her you're coming over to light a fire with her with the wood you delivered. If it lights, say goodbye. 

If it doesn't, you have 4 options. 

1. Give her full refund, take all wood back, lose her number. 
2. Give her 25% money back, apoligize, tell her she can keep all the wood at the discounted price and lose her number.
3. Tell her you're willing to give her 50% off the next cord and you'll give her 25% back for this one but she can keep this cord too. So she's getting 2 cords for 40% less than what you would normally charge her. 
4. Run, run out of the house, lose her number, change your number. 


I'm beginning to tell people that I'll give them a few pieces to try out.
If they like it, they can't complain about a cord. If not, then they won't buy from me. Simple. 

Maybe its a draft issue? Keep us posted on what happens!


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## HARRY BARKER (Dec 8, 2009)

is she hot??


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 8, 2009)

HARRY BARKER said:


> is she hot??



Obviously not, she can't get the fire going... LOL

Ian


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 8, 2009)

spencerhenry said:


> i have told her that i want to see how she is building the fire, because i have NEVER had anyone have this problem before. .



That's a smart move. Too many people don't know how to build a fire.


Not that it's rocket science!


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## songofthewood (Dec 8, 2009)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Obviously not, she can't get the fire going... LOL
> 
> Ian



Your bad!!!!


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## Sparky8370 (Dec 8, 2009)

Ask her if he cleaned with the grain or against it, and tell her it makes a difference.


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## treemandan (Dec 8, 2009)

Good to see you guys concerned over this. I would head over and see why she can't get the stuff lit.


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## TreePointer (Dec 9, 2009)

If you make another house call, consider taking a witness with you.


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## oxbow (Dec 9, 2009)

I wonder if anyone ever showed her where the damper is?
I think going there and seeing for yourself is the only way to find out what her problem is. Good luck.


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## avalancher (Dec 9, 2009)

You guys are all nicer than I am.If you know you have a quality product then I sure as shootin wouldnt drive 75 miles to prove it to her.I would tell her to punt and hang up on the old gal.Hate to say it, but it has been my experience that a lot of folks just love to have someone to gripe to who will listen.It may be your patience that has her calling back time after time.

I had a similiar experience some years ago.I went over to the old gals house and brought a pint sqeeze bottle of diesel fuel with me,the way I start a fire in my house.Threw some wood in her stove,sqeezed half a pint of diesel on the wood,dropped a match and slammed the door.20 minutes later it was 75 in her house.

Turns out she had no idea about kindling wood, expected to throw full sized chunks of red oak in the stove and light it up with a barbecue lighter after she left the pile that I had delivered uncovered on her driveway for 2 days in pouring rain.


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## Mike Van (Dec 9, 2009)

There are people that are so dependant on others that they are useless. Some have lots of $$$$$$$$ too, it must have been inherited, as they aren't smart enough to earn it. Can't light a fire, get a bird or bat out of the house, a frog out of the pool, or a coon out of the garage. Not smart enough to look at the gas gauge, check the oil in a machine or know what 2 cycle is. Good luck Henry, she sounds like a real winner!


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## logbutcher (Dec 9, 2009)

Mike Van said:


> There are people that are so dependant on others that they are useless. Some have lots of $$$$$$$$ too, it must have been inherited, as they aren't smart enough to earn it. Can't light a fire, get a bird or bat out of the house, a frog out of the pool, or a coon out of the garage. Not smart enough to look at the gas gauge, check the oil in a machine or know what 2 cycle is. Good luck Henry, she sounds like a real winner!



Damn Michael, it has to be great being you. Gee: "...get a bird or bat out of the house..." Whew, what a skill. 

That "useless" person may:
1. Sew you up when you blow your ACL.:biggrinbounce2:
2. Teach you to read.
3. Marry you.
4. Develop kevlar for body armor.....oh yes, and PPE.:newbie:
5. Engineer and design those chainsaws you love.umpkin2:
6. THIMK boy ...there's plenty more.:hmm3grin2orange:

...and that $$$$$$. Ever get hired by someone without ??

JMNSHO


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## olyman (Dec 9, 2009)

Ductape said:


> If it were me, i'd go back with cash in hand, and load up the wood and give her a refund. I'd also never have any wood available should she ever call again. I assure you....... she is the type that will NEVER be happy no matter what you do for her.



totally agree--and it sounds like brown boy wants to sell her wood--


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## Mike Van (Dec 9, 2009)

logbutcher said:


> Damn Michael, it has to be great being you. Gee: "...
> 
> 
> 
> JMNSHO



It's not bad, there's really nobody I'd trade lives with.


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## Curlycherry1 (Dec 9, 2009)

B-school 101: An unhappy customer will tell on average 10 people about their complaints, a satisfied customer will, if you are lucky, tell 1-2 others. Unhappy customers always do far more damage. Give her the money back and take the wood away. If she is talking about bugs then she can really cause some damage. All wood has bugs unless it is kiln dried, so she will always be 100% right when she says you wood is infested with bugs.

BTW, a moisture meter is useless to read the moisture from a piece of firewood. You cannot take an accurate reading from the exposed surfaces. The instructions always tell you to take at least 1" off of an end and read at the fresh cut. I can get 12-17% moisture out of wood I cut last weekend if I test the sides today.


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## 1harlowr (Dec 9, 2009)

Her attitude would go a long ways in determining what I'd do. She's been nice but just a pain. Show her how to light the fire and maybe you'll get more referrals from the Aspen area. I'd rather have my knee surgeon be an expert on surgery and not know a lick about lighting a fire. 
Plus maybe you'll get dinner out of it


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## fishercat (Dec 9, 2009)

*she must be an idiot or a liberal.*

like their is a difference!

:hmm3grin2orange:


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## CrappieKeith (Dec 9, 2009)

Bass said:


> is she using a wood stove or fire place? when was the last time she had the chimney cleaned - could be a draft issue
> 
> heck if you've been nice so far why not light a fire and see what happens
> 
> or give her a refund


That's what I was thinking.....maybe to take a bit more time to see what she has and see how it lights for you might create more business.
building a fire is not that difficult with a good draft.
If she does not have a draft than no matter what wood she uses there will be issues.
If her flue is plugged you may save her from herself and that house from burning down too.


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## Dalmatian90 (Dec 9, 2009)

> like their is a difference!



Hmmmm...I think it's actually all liberals are idiots, but not all idiots are liberal.


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## treemandan (Dec 9, 2009)

Fire and firewood.

I think I just said a whole lot right there. From when man first struck some rocks together to the unbelievable brawls that break out on Craigslist over what a cord of wood actually is. When I am not here I go over there and you should see the crap I start with them. No, just joking, I don't bother with that malarky.

Man, I feel bad sometimes but I really don't give a crap, sorry.
This lady talked me into dropping some 3 foot dia maple rounds. I told her this was not for her. We talked about it for an hour, she told me she had to be careful as her arm was bad. She was about 50 or so, maybe she was bored. She said she wanted it so ...

50 bucks for a load and she calls me back and hour later saying its my fault she has hurt herself and I need to come get the wood off her lawn. She might have even said she wanted the 50 back.

Well that is the women, they ain't so bad as what some guys are thinking.


no i didn't go get that wood from that lady. i wonder what bad things she told her neighbors about me.


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## avalancher (Dec 9, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Fire and firewood.
> 
> I think I just said a whole lot right there. From when man first struck some rocks together to the unbelievable brawls that break out on Craigslist over what a cord of wood actually is. When I am not here I go over there and you should see the crap I start with them. No, just joking, I don't bother with that malarky.
> 
> ...



What?You didnt run over there,split it up,stack it, and even build a fire for the old gal?whats wrong with you?LOL
I would have done the same thing as you,i probably would have hung up on her faster than you did.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 9, 2009)

Well Im curious now as to what she is doing wrong, I work for people like this and your right they sew you up or diagnose your cancer, but they sometimes can't wipe thier ass. 

Every person has there proficiency, I have come to accept this because without those folks who make big money and need people like me that can do anything, I would have to have a boring mono focused job to make money.

I hope you can resolve her problem, but DO NOT HESSITATE to charge her for your time and fuel if the problem is her own ignorance. 
She will pay and be happy.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 9, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Fire and firewood.
> 
> I think I just said a whole lot right there. From when man first struck some rocks together to the unbelievable brawls that break out on Craigslist over what a cord of wood actually is. When I am not here I go over there and you should see the crap I start with them. No, just joking, I don't bother with that malarky.
> 
> ...



There is a time you must refuse to do what you know will be a problem, the money is not worth the future hassle.


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## spencerhenry (Dec 9, 2009)

so yesterday afternoon, in wind and single digit temperatures i dug some edgings out and cut up a couple of five gallon buckets of kindling, then i sorted through the firewood pile and picked out some good small pieces and some pine with lots of splinters on it.
this morning with 16 below zero, i left the house at 7:15 and went to load up firewood. i had 3 other deliveries to make, but to deliver the kindling to her was about another 10 miles of crappy roads and crappier drivers. but while i am loading up firewood, i get a message on my phone saying that she just wants her money back and for me to take the wood away. no hard feelings she says, she wont tell anyone about me or the wood. this is the second or third time she has gone out of her way to tell me that she wont trash talk me. my experience is that anyone who professes not to do something either already has, or soon will, or is threatening that if i dont do what she wants, she will. 
since i had already left, and my deliveries today didnt require a wheel barrow, i didnt have one with me. when i delivered the wood to her i didnt have one, but that is because she said i could back right up to the garage. what she failed to mention was that the wood didnt go in the garage, it went behind it. behind it was down the side, and around the corner where she had a metal rack for stacking. i should have known then that there would be a problem. she told me then that her landscaper had told her to stack the wood several feet from the house because of bugs getting into the stucco from the wood. well her landscaper is the brown boy that "cleaned" the wood, the guy that is trash talking my product. 
after my 3 deliveries today, i called and left her a message telling her that i couldnt pick it up today, as i was already losing money on this and couldnt make a special trip to pick up the wood, but that i would do it tomorrow. i also told her that i would buy back whatever wood she had left, and that if there were any evidence that showed that the wood was dirty, or had bugs, or was wet, i would gladly refund 100% of her money. and that she needed to have a path shoveled to the wood pile so i could get a wheel barrow around the back of the house.
when i get there tomorrow, i will ask her to show me the bugs, show me the dirty wood (not all was cleaned), and i will SHOW her the numbers on the moisture meter. if it is under 20% moisture, i will not refund all her money, i will keep back $20 for the labor to stack and remove, and i will pay her for what wood she has left, if its half, then half. if it is over 20%, i will give her 100% of her money back, apologize, and leave.
20% moisture content is plenty dry for firewood. i am not sure, but i bet up to 30% would even be ok. over the years i actually had one customer call me to complain that the wood they bought from me was TOO DRY!


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 9, 2009)

Curlycherry1 said:


> B-school 101: An unhappy customer will tell on average 10 people about their complaints, a satisfied customer will, if you are lucky, tell 1-2 others. Unhappy customers always do far more damage. .




I heard that a bit differently. It was 50 that an unhappy customer will tell.


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## CrappieKeith (Dec 9, 2009)

The old bluesman Jonny Lee hooker said it best....
So ya think that's funny,everybody kinda funny...you funny too!


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 9, 2009)

It would be only social Justice for you to meet the "brown boy" and let slip how he is referenced by the HO 
It's just hard to Imagine how Ignorant some people can be, Id still try to discover what her firestarting problem is. my bet is the flue is closed 
and the "brown boy" has firewood for sale.

I find your price to be amazingly cheap for the work involved, I would not reload and carry a stack of wood in the snow for 50.00 much less 20.00


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## Nandy (Dec 9, 2009)

spencerhenry said:


> the brown boy


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## blackdogon57 (Dec 9, 2009)

If the path to the wood needs to be shoveled I think she will hard pressed to find bugs. Very noble of you to make such a generous offer to her. Just a thought but maybe you want to see if she will make her "boy" load the wood back in your truck and you can sit and watch. If he's willing to wash it, moving it should be a snap.


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## fishercat (Dec 9, 2009)

*interesting theory.*



Dalmatian90 said:


> Hmmmm...I think it's actually all liberals are idiots, but not all idiots are liberal.



sounds fair to me.


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## Bass (Dec 10, 2009)

spencerhenry said:


> 20% moisture content is plenty dry for firewood. i am not sure, but i bet up to 30% would even be ok. over the years i actually had one customer call me to complain that the wood they bought from me was TOO DRY!



30% is NOT ok for fire wood 15% to 20% is the acceptable range


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## Wolfcsm (Dec 10, 2009)

Still think that you might do well by seeing how and where she is laying her fire and how she is lighting it. A few minutes teaching might just turn her into a long term customer. Fire making is a skill that is not that common today.

Hal


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## Bounty Hunter (Dec 10, 2009)

Bass said:


> 30% is NOT ok for fire wood 15% to 20% is the acceptable range



:agree2:

Give your customers a box of "Weber Firestarters"...the little white cubes...they light much faster and better than the sawdust type. If the wood is acceptably dry, the Weber firestarters need very little kindling to get a great fire going! (I have lit plenty of fires with NO kindling) 

Bounty Hunter


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## spencerhenry (Dec 10, 2009)

today i went and picked up the wood. she had used about 15% of it. the rest was under snow in the rack where i had stacked it. i loaded into the wheelbarrow and out to the truck. it was a very good assortment of small pieces, and big pieces, but none so big that i cant use one hand to grab them. 1/2 aspen and 1/2 red oak, measure by volume at time of delivery. none of the wood showed any signs of bugs or dirt as she had claimed. in fact it looked better than average, some with bark, some without, most of the bark loose or falling off. after loading the wood, i called the bank to make sure the check hadnt come back for any reason. then i got my moisture meter out and checked about a dozen pieces. the highest reading i got with the aspen was 12%, the lowest 9% with most at 11%, i checked the oak and most was 15% with one piece at 20%. 

while driving to my delivery this morning i thought of all the comments posted here, and comments made to me by friends. i also thought about special orders like a plumbing or electrical supply house, and decided to do a 20% restock fee, since she had used about 15% of the wood, i felt that was fair, and limited my loss somewhat. after all the time i have dealing with her, and picking up the wood, i have made no money on her delivery, and lost a lot of time not to mention fuel. she had paid me $153 in a check, and so i came up with $120 as what i would refund her. i grabbed a hundred and a twenty and went to the front door. 

she wanted to talk about it, i just held out my hand with the money and said, "i have spent enough time on this, there is nothing wrong with the wood, and i would like to be on my way". she wouldnt take the money, she just kept going on and on about how dirty it was, and that she believes the guy that told her it was full of bugs. she asked me to come inside and get the few pieces that she had in the house. i said no thanks, i just wanted to leave. she insisted that i come and get the pieces in the house, i again said no thanks, i was not going to go in her house. i looked at my snow covered boots, and just said no. finally after her demanding that i go inside and get the few pieces, i said " why dont i come in and show you how to start a fire, if it wont burn, i will give you 100% of your money back. she replied that she didnt want to spend the time and just wanted the wood "out of her house". i told her again that there was nothing wrong with the wood, that it was clean, had no bugs, and was dry, and that i verified it was dry with a moisture meter. she again said that the wood was covered in black stuff, that i should come get it out of her house. i said " if you want to bring it to the door, i would be happy to look at it, but i am not coming in to get it". she refused. i told her again that the wood was not bad, still holding out the money, and that maybe the problem was with her damper, or a chimney cap, or something like that, and that i have made my life working with wood, or creating wood products, i got my first axe at the age of 5 and have been in the woods since. she goes off on a rant about how she knows how to build a fire, and has been doing so longer than i have been alive, and says that the only reason i am "yelling" at her is because she is a woman, and asks me if she should call someone. i am befuddled at this point not sure what she is talking about. i mention that i have delivered 137 loads of wood this year and in the last 9 years i have never had anyone with this problem. she says it is so bad that her carbon monoxide detector goes off, continuing with "i know 2 of your other customers, do you want me to talk to them?" in response i ask her if her damper is open, because even if it was smoking, it would still go up the chimney. she then says that i have 2 choices, she can either call her boyfriend, or the cops!. i am thinking wow she is really out there, and turn away and walk toward my truck, she says that this has cost her a lot of money. without turning around i said "stupidy is expensive".
i shouldnt have said that but after several minutes of her telling me that my wood was junk and that i dont know what i am talking about, i had just had it. threatening to talk smack to my other customers, threatening to get her boyfriend to "talk to me", or threatening to call the cops, wow what a crack. when i first went up to the door i very nicely said that i didnt want to talk about it, but she just wanted to complain. i dont think i could have done anything that would have made her happy. i did raise my voice with her, it is something i do. i need to work on that, but i really have a problem with people insulting me, threatening me, and being stupid. 
i learned some things today, like i should leave a check on the door, and drive away. i am not sure what i would do next time, there is nothing wrong with the wood, i dont have the time to show customers how to light a fire, or figure out what is wrong with their fireplace. between the phone calls, messages, cutting kindling, retrieving the wood, i probably have hours in this, not including the original delivery. hell, the gas to drive up there and back is $24, i included another stop so split it, it is still $12 in gas.
there was more to the conversation than i can type here, but this is most of it. i must have said "look i just want to leave" about 10 times, once she finally took the money, i did.


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## Wood Doctor (Dec 10, 2009)

Ductape said:


> If it were me, i'd go back with cash in hand, and load up the wood and give her a refund. I'd also never have any wood available should she ever call again. I assure you....... she is the type that will NEVER be happy no matter what you do for her.


+1. Say good bye to customers like this forever. They have no business trying to burn firewood. Let her turn up her thermostat and pay through the nose.


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## rmotoman (Dec 10, 2009)

I think you did just fine. At least you didn't go in her house.

Some how damaging her carpet or something else would have really been the pits in your situation. I was an independent contractor delivering appliances for Sears and damaging someone's house could cost lots of money fast. We had the complainers and you just had to live through them.


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## Nandy (Dec 10, 2009)

Good riddance is all I have to say...


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## J.Gordon (Dec 10, 2009)

There’s probably a chimney fire in her future, the hardest ones to teach anything to are the ones that already know it all.


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## fishercat (Dec 10, 2009)

*good luck with that!*



Bass said:


> 30% is NOT ok for fire wood 15% to 20% is the acceptable range



on average,you would be lucky to get 50-60% around here.

sellers here get seasoned and split confused.


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## fishercat (Dec 10, 2009)

*in the future.............*



spencerhenry said:


> today i went and picked up the wood. she had used about 15% of it. the rest was under snow in the rack where i had stacked it. i loaded into the wheelbarrow and out to the truck. it was a very good assortment of small pieces, and big pieces, but none so big that i cant use one hand to grab them. 1/2 aspen and 1/2 red oak, measure by volume at time of delivery. none of the wood showed any signs of bugs or dirt as she had claimed. in fact it looked better than average, some with bark, some without, most of the bark loose or falling off. after loading the wood, i called the bank to make sure the check hadnt come back for any reason. then i got my moisture meter out and checked about a dozen pieces. the highest reading i got with the aspen was 12%, the lowest 9% with most at 11%, i checked the oak and most was 15% with one piece at 20%.
> 
> while driving to my delivery this morning i thought of all the comments posted here, and comments made to me by friends. i also thought about special orders like a plumbing or electrical supply house, and decided to do a 20% restock fee, since she had used about 15% of the wood, i felt that was fair, and limited my loss somewhat. after all the time i have dealing with her, and picking up the wood, i have made no money on her delivery, and lost a lot of time not to mention fuel. she had paid me $153 in a check, and so i came up with $120 as what i would refund her. i grabbed a hundred and a twenty and went to the front door.
> 
> ...



just ask who they voted for.if they say Obama,don't even load the truck.


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## sly13 (Dec 10, 2009)

Ok, this is the wife talking on sly's avatar. I know several people like this and in fact are related to many....UCK! Here are some tips to survive with these type of people.
1. If it's a woman, bring a woman to deal with her. Everything changes once the sexes are the same (husband just laughed at what replies I might get from that statement...oh, I get it) 
2. As previously mentioned from another post we need people with money to make money. What a silly thing to say! That's still no excuse to act like she is and jeopardize your livelihood. 
3. I don't think there is a boyfriend! Maybe you are her new "friend" and that is her way of showing emotion. Like when a little boy punches a little girl???
I have quite a bit more to say. I've been trapped in the house for 3 days due to weather and am a little cagey! Husband is giving me the look to stop typing , and give the computer back.I'll sneak back on later.


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## Curlycherry1 (Dec 10, 2009)

fishercat said:


> just ask who they voted for.if they say Obama,don't even load the truck.



Please keep the political comments tot he forum they are intended for. No need to drag that garbage up here to a place where people like to discuss stuff of importance.


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## sly13 (Dec 10, 2009)

CurleyCherry +1


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## Curlycherry1 (Dec 10, 2009)

I would have been asking a few more questions like: how did your brown boy clean the wood, what did he use? Where are these bugs he says are there, and I would have had a white piece of paper and a magnifying glass in hand to look for them.

Darn good think you did not enter the house. Never, ever enter the house of an irate customer. You are setting yourself up for assalt charges, damaging of property, all manner of false claims where it gets down to your word vs their's.


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## Bass (Dec 10, 2009)

fishercat said:


> just ask who they voted for.if they say Obama,don't even load the truck.



this is probably the stupidest thing i read all day..  

either way sounds like you tried the best you could i guess you can't please them all 

if her CO detector is going off - she most certainly has a draft problem and if it's not addressed you wont have to worry about her in the future


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## Dok (Dec 10, 2009)

This could have turned out much worse. Be glad it's over and move on. Sometimes it just isn't worth bending over backward to make someone happy. 
Dok


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 10, 2009)

Dok said:


> This could have turned out much worse. Be glad it's over and move on. Sometimes it just isn't worth bending over backward to make someone happy.
> Dok



:agree2:


Good on ya for not entering her house. Nothing good would have come of that.


You did your best. Some folks simply _*will not*_ be happy customers.


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## southsoundtree (Dec 10, 2009)

You played it as best possible. 

You made every effort to give quality service and product.

I've been thinking of writing up a fire building instruction sheet with drawings. I can copy them on our all in one printer. Put business information and contact info on it. The may want to keep the sheet for a while, or pass to a friend. 

People are screwy sometimes. I pruned a guy's long dead tree for him, by the hour. He wanted it to look just so.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 11, 2009)

spencerhenry, You did Fantastic, I don't know what her Problem was but you have done your damn best to stop it from being yours. I'm glad you took something away from the input here. 
Those kinda whacked out freakoids are out there but there not the norm. 
good riddance, and don't be afraid to share your experience with others, You have a damn good refrence and documentation here that clearly shows you went above and beyond.

This story makes me think of this wild and crazy local story of a ponte vedra woman that claims to have been kidnapped but her acused abductor says shes a nympho who contrived the whole thing. 
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/flagler_news/091709_Ponte_Vedra_kidnapping_plot


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## TreePointer (Dec 11, 2009)

So she threatened to call the police, eh? 

I was leery of some type of setup to get you into trouble. That's why I mentioned taking a witness with you. You were very wise not to go inside.

Glad it's over. You deserve a cold one.


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## Vibes (Dec 11, 2009)

I used to work with a very successful interior contractor. He charged allot of money and worked mainly high end contracts. He allways said, '' in this business, one of the best tools you can have is a good kook meter.'' He was real good at spotting them. When he came across one, he would double the price and wouldn't start work until half was paid up front. As long as I worked with him I never remember him having trouble getting paid.


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## Kansas (Dec 11, 2009)

Wow interesting experience from the sounds of it, in my business I call people like that knuckleheads it takes awhile to sniff them out but you have got some good experience with this one!!!

I went to business management school out in California and learned about dealing with employees and people in general and there isnt a hard and fast rule for dealing with them from my experience other than plain avoidance and proper salesmanship, good comunication up front is mandatory. 

Once you are in their grips dont let them bring you down to their level if anything thats the key! Stay calm and factual and dont budge from what you know is the right thing dont argue or raise your voice thats what they want and expect from you it makes them justified, if you stay calm it puts you in charge and them in the wrong if they get loud etc. 

Any gals that read this I mean no disrespect but women are the worst in my experience about having the abillity and willingness to turn the situation around and making it your fault because you didnt please them or live up to their expectations its just the way it is, their view of whats honorable is different than men imho. 

One thing you may start doing is find a decent way of telling people up front they have one chance to refuse the sale when they see the wood and thats before you off load it and that you are not trying to pedal bad product just have better things to do than educate people on fire building etc. good luck

edit: I can usually tell a KH when I talk to them by the questions they ask, they will almost always lead you into a no-win situation by asking certain things that you would think should be obvious, that will be the first red flag, make sure at that point there is understanding dont expect them to know what you know or what you think is common knowledge or it can bite you. 

I have it happen every now and then and its always someone that asks certain questions that seem to lead up to expecting more than what is practcal and/or reasonable for the situation at hand. They dont get to me anymore I make my point explicit and make sure they understand but they still try its a dog eat dog world at times got to have proper communication fwtw.

Kansas


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## fishercat (Dec 11, 2009)

*i have three major rules.*

you must be home to inspect wood before i dump it.

CASH ONLY!

i am not driving on muddy yards.


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## fishercat (Dec 11, 2009)

*oops!!!!!!!!!!*



Curlycherry1 said:


> Please keep the political comments tot he forum they are intended for. No need to drag that garbage up here to a place where people like to discuss stuff of importance.



did i offend the wittle wibewal?


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## Tree Pig (Dec 11, 2009)

fishercat said:


> did i offend the wittle wibewal?



+1

lol at wittle wibewal nice Barney Frank imitation


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## spencerhenry (Dec 11, 2009)

my female neighbor agrees with the female post here. she thinks that she called to complain just to get ME to come back and talk/ hang out with her. it would not be the first time, and i am sure not the last. actually i would like to deliver wood to some hot single woman, once before it happened, she was my girlfriend for a year and half, after that however i wished i had never met her, but thats another story.
i am trying really hard to make firewood a real business. as i get more and more customers, i am sure i will get more and more problem customers. i have been lucky though, in 9 years of selling wood here, i have only recieved 3 or 4 bad checks, and only one actually tried to stiff me. but i have to date never not gotten paid, sometimes it took a while, but still got it. i take checks, cash, and am thinking about paypal. the easier i can make it for someone to pay me the more likely i am to make the sale. i hate paypal, but i am going to try it and see if it helps sales. it creates more ability for people to stiff me, but i have to try. 
my firewood processor will be here on wednesday, with that kind of production i will need all the sales i can get.


thanks to all for your comments, its good to have confirmation of what i think is right.


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## fishercat (Dec 11, 2009)

*your neighbor is probably right.*



spencerhenry said:


> my female neighbor agrees with the female post here. she thinks that she called to complain just to get ME to come back and talk/ hang out with her. it would not be the first time, and i am sure not the last. actually i would like to deliver wood to some hot single woman, once before it happened, she was my girlfriend for a year and half, after that however i wished i had never met her, but thats another story.
> i am trying really hard to make firewood a real business. as i get more and more customers, i am sure i will get more and more problem customers. i have been lucky though, in 9 years of selling wood here, i have only recieved 3 or 4 bad checks, and only one actually tried to stiff me. but i have to date never not gotten paid, sometimes it took a while, but still got it. i take checks, cash, and am thinking about paypal. the easier i can make it for someone to pay me the more likely i am to make the sale. i hate paypal, but i am going to try it and see if it helps sales. it creates more ability for people to stiff me, but i have to try.
> my firewood processor will be here on wednesday, with that kind of production i will need all the sales i can get.
> 
> ...



years ago when i did landscaping and mowing i would periodically get complaints from women customers.when i arrived to resolve it all of a sudden it 'wasn't a real big deal."

next thing i know i am sitting there chit chatting for an hour or more.i have been asked out to dinner,weekend getaways,family events,offered drinks,a swim in the pool,you name it.some of these women i know where married.a couple of them even made advances while their spouse was home.

i decided early on in life never to mess with another man's woman,customers outside of work,or get involved romantically with co workers.seems to have served me well.every time i see other not abide by these basic rules,they seem to get sucked into a drama series,no thanks. 

i think you handles it well.especially the jab at the end.


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## fishercat (Dec 11, 2009)

*it's called humor.*



Bass said:


> this is probably the stupidest thing i read all day..
> 
> either way sounds like you tried the best you could i guess you can't please them all
> 
> if her CO detector is going off - she most certainly has a draft problem and if it's not addressed you wont have to worry about her in the future



all that matters is that i find it funny.you have the option of skipping to the next post or complaining.you made you choice,not that it's going to make a difference.

remember,it's not free speech unless someone is offended.i live to offend.it's a hobby of mine.

i guess if i lived in a state that voted for Teddy and Barney over and over again,i wouldn't have a sense of humor.

Have a Merry CHRISTmas!


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## Bass (Dec 11, 2009)

fishercat said:


> a
> 
> .i live to offend.it's a hobby of mine.
> 
> ...



i feel bad for you if that's your hobby however i do hope you and yours have a nice holiday season


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## epicklein22 (Dec 11, 2009)

fishercat said:


> all that matters is that i find it funny.you have the option of skipping to the next post or complaining.you made you choice,not that it's going to make a difference.
> 
> remember,it's not free speech unless someone is offended.i live to offend.it's a hobby of mine.
> 
> ...



Take offense to this post if you want, but you just spew political garbage all over this forum (mind you we have a section of the site dedicated to it). People simply ask you to not bring it in this section or other non-political sections and then you get all offended and thread jack more about politics. So why don't you show some respect and stay on topic or just ####!

(Oh ya, respond all you want, but this will be the one and only time I address this situation again.)


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## fishercat (Dec 11, 2009)

*it's one of many.*



Bass said:


> i feel bad for you if that's your hobby however i do hope you and yours have a nice holiday season



i don't devote a lot of time to it.

i was serious about the Merry Christmas. have a Happy New Year as well.


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## fishercat (Dec 11, 2009)

*i have let it go.*



epicklein22 said:


> Take offense to this post if you want, but you just spew political garbage all over this forum (mind you we have a section of the site dedicated to it). People simply ask you to not bring it in this section or other non-political sections and then you get all offended and thread jack more about politics. So why don't you show some respect and stay on topic or just ####!
> 
> (Oh ya, respond all you want, but this will be the one and only time I address this situation again.)



i didn;t make the mountain out of the mole hill.


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## Baldman (Dec 11, 2009)

Politics... gotta love it. 

The "little people" picking sides and fighting amongst one another actually thinking/believing they have a say or voice.


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## Curlycherry1 (Dec 11, 2009)

fishercat said:


> did i offend the wittle wibewal?



You as a matter of fact you did not offened me in the least, but political comments spread all over the place do nothing but polute perfectly good threads. It is kind of like ferting in someone's face while they are trying to eat. Sure the ferting person cannot hold it in because they are ill trained, but there are better places to let er rip.


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## fishercat (Dec 11, 2009)

*well silly me..........*



Curlycherry1 said:


> You as a matter of fact you did not offened me in the least, but political comments spread all over the place do nothing but polute perfectly good threads. It is kind of like ferting in someone's face while they are trying to eat. Sure the ferting person cannot hold it in because they are ill trained, but there are better places to let er rip.



i just figured everyone would have a quick chuckle for a second and move on.seems like what should have happened.

what the hell is this world coming to?


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## Curlycherry1 (Dec 11, 2009)

fishercat said:


> what the hell is this world coming to?



People getting sick of hearing "your guy's an idiot" or "my guy is the going to save the world", that is what it is coming to.

I was raised that one did not talk about politics, religion or money in polite circles. I consider parts above the polical section of this forum polite circles. The political section is for slinging mud and getting dirty, this is not the place for that.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 12, 2009)

spencerhenry said:


> my female neighbor agrees with the female post here. she thinks that she called to complain just to get ME to come back and talk/ hang out with her. it would not be the first time, and i am sure not the last. actually i would like to deliver wood to some hot single woman, once before it happened, she was my girlfriend for a year and half, after that however i wished i had never met her, but thats another story.
> i am trying really hard to make firewood a real business. as i get more and more customers, i am sure i will get more and more problem customers. i have been lucky though, in 9 years of selling wood here, i have only recieved 3 or 4 bad checks, and only one actually tried to stiff me. but i have to date never not gotten paid, sometimes it took a while, but still got it. i take checks, cash, and am thinking about paypal. the easier i can make it for someone to pay me the more likely i am to make the sale. i hate paypal, but i am going to try it and see if it helps sales. it creates more ability for people to stiff me, but i have to try.
> my firewood processor will be here on wednesday, with that kind of production i will need all the sales i can get.
> 
> ...





fishercat said:


> years ago when i did landscaping and mowing i would periodically get complaints from women customers.when i arrived to resolve it all of a sudden it 'wasn't a real big deal."
> 
> next thing i know i am sitting there chit chatting for an hour or more.i have been asked out to dinner,weekend getaways,family events,offered drinks,a swim in the pool,you name it.some of these women i know where married.a couple of them even made advances while their spouse was home.
> 
> ...


You Know you were asking for it


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## outofmytree (Dec 12, 2009)

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> You Know you were asking for it



WTH?!?!?

Where did you get my picture from?????


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## fishercat (Dec 12, 2009)

*sounds like you have guilt associated with your vote.*



Curlycherry1 said:


> People getting sick of hearing "your guy's an idiot" or "my guy is the going to save the world", that is what it is coming to.
> 
> I was raised that one did not talk about politics, religion or money in polite circles. I consider parts above the polical section of this forum polite circles. The political section is for slinging mud and getting dirty, this is not the place for that.



we all make mistakes but sometimes have to live with the consequence.don't get mad at me because you didn't see him for what he really was.

like i said,i expected people to chuckle to themselves and move on.the only ones that polluted this thread where the ones that did all the whining over one short statement. be mad at yourselves,not me.


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## fishercat (Dec 12, 2009)

*that isn't me.*



outofmytree said:


> WTH?!?!?
> 
> Where did you get my picture from?????



i don't have any tattoos.

i don't think i'm great looking or anything.i was just stating what happened.it doesn't happen now or i don't pick up on it anymore.who knows.

that was down south and now i am in New England.that could have a lot to do with it.


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## slowp (Dec 12, 2009)

Curlycherry1 said:


> People getting sick of hearing "your guy's an idiot" or "my guy is the going to save the world", that is what it is coming to.



+1.  Since I know how to rep now....

And, for the OP, I think you handled the wood thing quite well.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 12, 2009)

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> You Know you were asking for it





outofmytree said:


> WTH?!?!?
> 
> Where did you get my picture from?????


 what kind of wood are you packin anyhow 



fishercat said:


> i don't have any tattoos.
> 
> i don't think i'm great looking or anything.i was just stating what happened.it doesn't happen now or i don't pick up on it anymore.who knows.
> 
> that was down south and now i am in New England.that could have a lot to do with it.


Oh it happens all to often,it's Fine when its the Owner that's being hit on, but when they start droolin over your bois, you lose control, that is unless you just pimp um out LOL. 
Aint that right TT:greenchainsaw:


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## sly13 (Dec 12, 2009)

:arg:opcorn:


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## oneoldbanjo (Dec 12, 2009)

spencerhenry:

You did your best......Move on and don't give this woman another thought. 

You did a good thing by not entering her house.....

I work with the public and I get along with most people very well. I don't take myself too seriously and try to do whatever I can to help people out. Every once in a while I come across someone that just can't be pleased no matter how hard I try. A few of them were trouble from the very first time they appeared......and they have never changed. One man and his wife would call constantly to complain about some dirt on the street, a neighbor whose trash cans were out a little too long.....there was always an issue that made them upset even though their life is pretty easy and they didn't really have much to complain about. One day the woman called and began her telephone call by saying: "I don't like to call and complain"....To which I responded "Yes you do......You call me every week to complain about something". She now call much less frequently! I have come to believe that there are some people that will find something to complain about - even if things are going well. When there is really nothing major to worry about - they will start to notice and be bothered by the petty things.

You went out of your way to be "reasonable and fair" with this woman and the problem is obviously with her.....and not with you. It does sound like she had a problem with her heating system and I wonder if something isn't restricting her system and preventing it from creating a proper draft. Be thankful that this woman is not your mother, wife, daughter or neighbor - and that you are done with her. Time to move on to more productive and fun things!


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 12, 2009)

I had a full service once that was constantly asking for extra BS, she had these Labs with the biges crap in town and a big Magnolia she always wanter every leaf up. 

and she was a poor mouther too. however a 300.00 a month constant income.

one day while she was trying to get something for nothing she offered that she had a friend that she was referring to me as if she were giving me a bonus. 

before I knew it someone said Well I hope she ain't as big a pain in the ass as you. her mouth dropped open in disbelief and she chuckled as I realized I had said it out loud. 

I chuckled too and by damn I got away with it, she even became a little easier to work with.


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## fishercat (Dec 12, 2009)

*to be honest...................*



Curlycherry1 said:


> People getting sick of hearing "your guy's an idiot" or "my guy is the going to save the world", that is what it is coming to.
> 
> I was raised that one did not talk about politics, religion or money in polite circles. I consider parts above the polical section of this forum polite circles. The political section is for slinging mud and getting dirty, this is not the place for that.



i think most of us are sick of hearing men act like women.you know,that metrosexual thing that's going around.

if you're going to be running dangerous gas powered equipment,you need to lay off the skim milk and toughen up.

i doubt you hear guys talking like you at logging camps.

you would last about half a second on our crew.


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## Curlycherry1 (Dec 13, 2009)

fishercat said:


> you would last about half a second on our crew.



You talk about toughening up, yet here you are the one acting like a baby whining because your guy lost the election. As I said just take it to the place where people care. Just look at the other comments and you can see others agree that poluting threads is lousy.

Oh and I would not work on your crew. People that are disrepectful are usually dangerous. If they can't follow simple rules, then safety usually means nothing to them.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Dec 13, 2009)

*Firebuilding for dummies*



southsoundtree said:


> You played it as best possible.
> 
> You made every effort to give quality service and product.
> 
> ...



Good idea, *southsoundtree* but you don't have to write it ... it's been done ... Google'd "BUILDING A FIRE" ... got 254,000,000 hits

This diagram is a direct link to wintercampers.com:






Copyrighted but you can probably get permission (or not ).


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## treevet (Dec 13, 2009)

I had one call back for a cord of wood over the years and it was just last month.

I answer the phone (I have known the guy for years) and first words were "you sold me unseasoned wood" not Hi...not Dave this is Bill.....not I am having trouble getting a fire to start

I say "you drove way out of the way to tell me how good my wood was last year compared to the crap you bought on the cheap the year before. This is the same kind of wood, seasoned the same amount of time, I have sold a whole lot of loads with no complaints, and I heat my house with the same wood.

Did you clean your chimney out.....Yeah had it cleaned out last week....but I will call the guy and have him check it out" Told him I would come get it and give $ back for what is unused if he wants.

I hear nothing back for weeks so I call him and he says the guy forgot to clean out the cap and now it burns fine. (prob gunked up from the cheap guys wood in the past). But he doesn't even have the decency to call me back and admit he was wrong for that assumption.

If you are still on this thread, OP, you should "throw in the towel". Nothing you can do now will rectify the situation and if you are like me your anger will eventually make things worse.

The people she bad mouths you to likely already know she is a nut and will take it with a grain of salt esp. if your wood they are burning is and has been just fine.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Dec 13, 2009)

*Good Job!!!*



spencerhenry said:


> *my female neighbor agrees with the female post here. she thinks that she called to complain just to get ME to come back and talk/ hang out with her.* it would not be the first time, and i am sure not the last. actually i would like to deliver wood to some hot single woman, once before it happened, she was my girlfriend for a year and half, after that however i wished i had never met her, but thats another story.
> i am trying really hard to make firewood a real business. as i get more and more customers, i am sure i will get more and more problem customers. i have been lucky though, in 9 years of selling wood here, i have only recieved 3 or 4 bad checks, and only one actually tried to stiff me. but i have to date never not gotten paid, sometimes it took a while, but still got it. i take checks, cash, and am thinking about paypal. the easier i can make it for someone to pay me the more likely i am to make the sale. i hate paypal, but i am going to try it and see if it helps sales. it creates more ability for people to stiff me, but i have to try.
> *my firewood processor will be here on wednesday, with that kind of production i will need all the sales i can get.*
> 
> thanks to all for your comments, its good to have confirmation of what i think is right.



As a volunteer at a nursing home, I can relate to your experiences with that customer. You could have been dealing with some early form of dementia or just plain loneliness. I agree it takes some special handling but don't "throw in the towel" because of one (or more) bad customer(s) ... humor them as best as you can and move on ... *you gotta make that new "firewood processor" happy ... sure would like to see some pix of that!!!*

Good thread!!! (have some rep)


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## treevet (Dec 13, 2009)

I didn't mean to throw in the towel on your business....just this sale. :agree2:


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## Baldman (Dec 13, 2009)

Fish... all I can say is wow! How soon can people forget... 8 YEARS!!! But maybe you didn't get it like the rest of the country. 

Don't forget how unpatriotic it is to criticize the President, or is that somehow allowed now?? :monkey:

Where is the sheep smilies at???


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## fishercat (Dec 14, 2009)

*i vote third party!*



Curlycherry1 said:


> You talk about toughening up, yet here you are the one acting like a baby whining because your guy lost the election. As I said just take it to the place where people care. Just look at the other comments and you can see others agree that poluting threads is lousy.
> 
> Oh and I would not work on your crew. People that are disrepectful are usually dangerous. If they can't follow simple rules, then safety usually means nothing to them.



so my guy always loses!

i ain't whining about that.trust me.

don't worry,we don't hire candy a$$e$ in the first place.you ain't coming to our jobsites with them hope and change bumper stickers on your car.


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## blubyu (Dec 14, 2009)

*Brown Boy?*

OK....I have got to ask...What is a "Brown Boy"? I hope Brown is his last name.


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## fishercat (Dec 14, 2009)

*i wondered the same thing.*



blubyu said:


> OK....I have got to ask...What is a "Brown Boy"? I hope Brown is his last name.



i stayed far away from that one.


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 14, 2009)

I suspect it is the opposite to blue eyed boy.


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## blubyu (Dec 14, 2009)

*Brown Boy?*

I don't remember seeing the word "eyed" in the post. I'm not trying to start up anything. But I just found it....peculiar


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Dec 14, 2009)

blubyu said:


> I don't remember seeing the word "eyed" in the post. I'm not trying to start up anything. But I just found it....peculiar



It didn't say eyed.

Think about it !:monkey:






what is predominately exclusive to Caucasian/ Saxon races ? 




contractor calls the temp service and says can you send me some blue eyed boys today, what do you think that means?


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## Nandy (Dec 14, 2009)

blubyu said:


> I don't remember seeing the word "eyed" in the post. I'm not trying to start up anything. But I just found it....peculiar



Look at my avatar, that is a brown boy...


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## lngbeard (Dec 20, 2009)

spencerhenry,
Seems to me you have fought the good fight and have more than full filled any obligation to this gal you might have. Only thing I could add, if she does have a plugged cap, creosote filled flue or just doesn't know about the damper and really might be in danger of burning the place down, would a call to the Aspen fire dept. be in order? Might save a life, albeit a pita. Again this would be above and beyond but given what you have put into this deal a phone call couldn't hurt.


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