# Anyone have any reveiws on the new Carlton 5014?? vs vermeer 362??



## jaystihl (Nov 17, 2016)

Any reveiws on carlton 5014 would be great. i know the 4012 has been out for awhile , any input on this machine would be helpful as well. Either going to buy the vermeer 362 or carlton 5014 , both have 35 hp briggs on them. The problem is i cant even look at the carlton or demo it since there are no dealers in florida.


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## Stump Grinder52 (Nov 17, 2016)

Jaysthil, I like my SP4012 but what good is it if you don't have any dealers in your state.


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## Mowingman (Nov 17, 2016)

I talked to the Carlton factory about the new 5014. It is pretty much the exact same machine as the 4012, EXCEPT, it has a 50" swing and a 14" cutting depth. Thus, the 5014 model number.
The 4012 is perhaps the finest machine of it's size available today. I am sure the 5014 is just as well built and as durable/dependable.
Dealer? Who needs a stinkin dealer!! I live about 1000 miles from the nearest dealer and have never needed one for anything on my 3 Carlton machines. The factory has every part you might ever need, ships quickly, and the phone support from customer service is fantastic.
Jeff


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## jaystihl (Nov 17, 2016)

Stump Grinder52 said:


> Jaysthil, I like my SP4012 but what good is it if you don't have any dealers in your state.


What good is it? well that was a thought of mine exactly, but for parts it doesnt mean much since alot of dealers in florida of other brands dont stock every thing you need and has to be shipped from a pretty good distance anyways. as far as service they are liable for any major component (for the 1st year)even if they have to pay a third party to fix it in my area. i would doubt carlton would be in business for this long if they didnt hold their end of the bargain


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## jaystihl (Nov 17, 2016)

Mowingman said:


> I talked to the Carlton factory about the new 5014. It is pretty much the exact same machine as the 4012, EXCEPT, it has a 50" swing and a 14" cutting depth. Thus, the 5014 model number.
> The 4012 is perhaps the finest machine of it's size available today. I am sure the 5014 is just as well built and as durable/dependable.
> Dealer? Who needs a stinkin dealer!! I live about 1000 miles from the nearest dealer and have never needed one for anything on my 3 Carlton machines. The factory has every part you might ever need, ships quickly, and the phone support from customer service is fantastic.
> Jeff


Thanks a bunch jeff! i cant seem to decide between the carlton or vermeer . have you ran both? Also, from pictures that ive seen of the carlton it looks like it would be very hard to see the cutting path from the back of the machine. how is this aspect of the machine? i currently own a vermeer 252 wich is similar but the carlton seems like the controls are further back


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## Mowingman (Nov 18, 2016)

Two of my 3 Carlton machines have been remote control. The latest one was a lever control. most lever control machines I have run leave something to be desired in viewing the cutting head. The Carlton is a little hard to see around. However, after a learning period, I found I just grind by sound and feel of the machine. I do not need to really look directly at the cut I am making. I guess I am saying, "you will get used to it".
I have not run a Vermeer, but in shopping around, have looked at them, and read a lot about them. In my opinion, Vermeer builds an "OK" machine, but nothing special. Vermeer stump grinders seem to be an afterthought, as the company is really into other lines of equipment in a lot bigger way. The design and technology always seems to be a step or two behind Carlton and Bandit. There has been a lot of info posted here over the years about all the problems with Vermeer stump grinders. Having said that, I am sure many people like their Vermeers. However, given the choice, I would still go with a Carlton.
Jeff


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## jaystihl (Nov 18, 2016)

Thanks jeff! i really like the carlton as well. going by specs it seems to be a more stout machine. I just wonder if the larger and thicker cutting wheel cuts down on performance as far as weight and horsepower. Also are the belts easy to tighten on these machines?


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## Stump Grinder52 (Nov 18, 2016)

Like Mowingman said they are a stout machine,even with a gas engine if you can possibly afford it ,i would get it with wireless remote and a Sandvic cutting wheel.Bought mine used with a Kubota diesel,bush blade,and all wheel drive.The remote is really slick,i stand just shy of the wheel and you can see what your grinding,here in New England theirs rocks everywhere even inbeded in stumps,i can go around them so i can dig them out if need.The Sandvic wheel can really cut ,and teeth have a very good grade of carbite last quite a while.I think their best in class for their size.


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## jaystihl (Nov 19, 2016)

Stump Grinder52 said:


> Like Mowingman said they are a stout machine,even with a gas engine if you can possibly afford it ,i would get it with wireless remote and a Sandvic cutting wheel.Bought mine used with a Kubota diesel,bush blade,and all wheel drive.The remote is really slick,i stand just shy of the wheel and you can see what your grinding,here in New England theirs rocks everywhere even inbeded in stumps,i can go around them so i can dig them out if need.The Sandvic wheel can really cut ,and teeth have a very good grade of carbite last quite a while.I think their best in class for their size.


Thanks for the input Grinder 52. is the extra money really worth the sandvic wheel? i usually run greenteeth in a triangle pattern which means im only running 6 teeth on a sc252. alot faster change out time. will try the sandvic if it is a huge difference, just worried about the huge increase in price initially nd in the long run.


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## Mowingman (Nov 19, 2016)

jaystihl said:


> Thanks jeff! i really like the carlton as well. going by specs it seems to be a more stout machine. I just wonder if the larger and thicker cutting wheel cuts down on performance as far as weight and horsepower. Also are the belts easy to tighten on these machines?


My machines have had the Sandvic wheel. This setup cuts fast and does not throw chips all over the place. I have seen very little wear on the outside diameter of the cutting wheel, even though I work in a lot of sandy ground from time to time. Belt adjustment for the main drive belt, ( which is a wide, multigroove, powerband type belt), is super easy, takes about 2 or 3 minutes, tops, and requires only an open end wrench.


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## jaystihl (Nov 19, 2016)

Hey mowing man, I was just reading on another Forum that people have problems getting the Carlton 4012 stuck a lot. Do you find this to be a problem? I got stuck quite a bit with my sc252 but it was nothing that a guy or two couldn't push out. I noticed the Carlton is about 300 pounds heavier and it looks like a lot of the weight is on top of the wheels which may sink the machine easier. Let me know your thoughts, thanks


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## Mowingman (Nov 19, 2016)

Only had one of my machines stuck, one time. It was due to my overconfidence. I have had several close calls. I have only used the 2wd machines, have never owned a 4x4 machine.
Since you have the boom with the cutter wheel on the back, it becomes your easiest answer to getting "unstuck", in any "stuck" situation. The boom can pick you up and move you over to solid ground. The boom can pick you up so you can put boards or mats under the drive wheels. Getting stuck is , in my opinion, always the operator's fault. You will need to learn the limitations of the machine in bad ground conditions, then find ways to work around or through those problems. My belief is that 4x4 capability just takes you farther from help before you get stuck. I really don't feel like the Carltons are any more prone to getting stuck than any of the other similar size machines.


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## jaystihl (Nov 19, 2016)

Thanks mowing man, you have been a huge help! going to find out monday what the cost for remote control upgrade is and also how much the sandvik system is at new river. ive heard new river is a better system sandvik than the ones carlton puts on their machines. Can anyone elaborate on new river vs carlton sandvik? heard they were very similar, almost identical, but one last longer


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## mocon63 (Nov 19, 2016)

jaystihl said:


> Thanks mowing man, you have been a huge help! going to find out monday what the cost for remote control upgrade is and also how much the sandvik system is at new river. ive heard new river is a better system sandvik than the ones carlton puts on their machines. Can anyone elaborate on new river vs carlton sandvik? heard they were very similar, almost identical, but one last longer



I grind in coastal SW Fl and have run both Sandvik and Revolution wheel. in our sandy soil conditions wear becomes an issue real fast. The Sanvik lasted about 500 hrs before the wear started compromising the lead teeth pockets, the Revolution has over 1500 hours and still going. It has to do with the tooth lay out I believe. As far as parts are concerned I have never had an issue with ordering from carlton, Top notch customer service in my dealings (even when I ordered the wrong part). I run a 7015 so getting temporally delayed in forward progress (STUCK) has been an issue during rainy season however as was mentioned the cutter wheel boom becomes your friend real fast. I also run a bandit 2100SP for when the carlton is just too big. But boy oh boy do I miss the remote when using the bandit. 
Mike


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## Mowingman (Nov 19, 2016)

It has been several years since I checked, but adding remote control was a costly process. In fact, it was costly to the point of not being economically viable as an option, so I just went ahead and bought a new one with remote, instead.


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## Mowingman (Nov 19, 2016)

Forgot to mention the wheel wear. I put about 450 hours on each wheel, before the wear got critical. I then had a welding shop build up the outside diameter edge of the wheel with hard surface rod. When done, it looked like new and was ready for another 400 hours or so.
I did not have to take the wheel off the machine, I just removed the outer lead teeth and pocket hardware. I believe the welding job was about 250.00. LOts cheaper than replacing the whole wheel for wear issues.


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## kromedome (Nov 19, 2016)

Mowingman said:


> Two of my 3 Carlton machines have been remote control. The latest one was a lever control. most lever control machines I have run leave something to be desired in viewing the cutting head. The Carlton is a little hard to see around. However, after a learning period, I found I just grind by sound and feel of the machine. I do not need to really look directly at the cut I am making. I guess I am saying, "you will get used to it".
> I have not run a Vermeer, but in shopping around, have looked at them, and read a lot about them. In my opinion, Vermeer builds an "OK" machine, but nothing special. Vermeer stump grinders seem to be an afterthought, as the company is really into other lines of equipment in a lot bigger way. The design and technology always seems to be a step or two behind Carlton and Bandit. There has been a lot of info posted here over the years about all the problems with Vermeer stump grinders. Having said that, I am sure many people like their Vermeers. However, given the choice, I would still go with a Carlton.
> Jeff


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## Stump Grinder52 (Nov 19, 2016)

My last grinder had 700 green teeth,used to sharpen them myself,always had plenty of sharp teeth on hand. Sandvic wheel is a big improvement,keeps chips in the hole no need to tarp around stumps,cuts better,like Mowingman said 450/500 hrs you can built up[hard faced]the wheel,just like new.Don't know about the Revolution.Not knocking you present machine but the Carlton with the remote and Sandvic will make your 252 seem like a Model A Ford.


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## jaystihl (Nov 19, 2016)

Stump Grinder52 said:


> My last grinder had 700 green teeth,used to sharpen them myself,always had plenty of sharp teeth on hand. Sandvic wheel is a big improvement,keeps chips in the hole no need to tarp around stumps,cuts better,like Mowingman said 450/500 hrs you can built up[hard faced]the wheel,just like new.Don't know about the Revolution.Not knocking you present machine but the Carlton with the remote and Sandvic will make your 252 seem like a Model A Ford.


Dont mind the knock at all, lol, thats why im moving on up!! Don't think I'll be able to afford the remote access but hoping that the regular controls will be plenty enough for me. Especially if I'm going to go with the sandvik cutting system


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## Stump Grinder52 (Nov 19, 2016)

Yes the remote is pricey i think retail around 3k,good luck, hope you can swing the whole package!!


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## jaystihl (Nov 19, 2016)

Anybody have any idea about a ballpark on how much the remote access cost on these machines 4012 or the 5014. It seems like it's highly sought after but I am already at my Max with just the machine as it is with the cutting system it comes with


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## jaystihl (Nov 19, 2016)

Stump Grinder52 said:


> Yes the remote is pricey i think retail around 3k,good luck, hope you can swing the whole package!!


Thanks stump52, is the remote access that important?


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## swaney (Nov 19, 2016)

jaystihl said:


> Dont mind the knock at all, lol, thats why im moving on up!! Don't think I'll be able to afford the remote access but hoping that the regular controls will be plenty enough for me. Especially if I'm going to go with the sandvik cutting system


Jaysihl, 
Wait a bit and save your money and get the remote. You will be very happy you did, and if you don't get the remote, you will latter severely regret it! Besides, it is nice to see the grinding operation and the machine (angle) from a distance

Swandog


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## jaystihl (Nov 19, 2016)

swaney said:


> Jaysihl,
> Wait a bit and save your money and get the remote. You will be very happy you did, and if you don't get the remote, you will latter severely regret it! Besides, it is nice to see the grinding operation and the machine (angle) from a distance
> 
> Swandog


Okay thanks a lot swanny I appreciate your input! Can I just ask why it is so important to have the remote other than a convenience. I noticed that a lot of people say this but really don't understand why. I've operated my other little grinder for a long time with no issues and no remote, is there anything different with this machine. Is it just the fact that you can't see what your grinding without the remote access??


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## kromedome (Nov 19, 2016)

As a long time Vermeer dealership employee, 25 years and counting in parts, service and now sales, I've witnessed a great deal of change in the marketplace of Tree Care equipment. I have replied to questions about the SC362 in a previous post, referred to it as a 252 on steroids. More horse power, 2 speed ground drive, hydraulic steer and great visibility of the cutter wheel at an affordable price. I feel compelled to write a little about Vermeer Corp, a world wide company with annual sales of a billion plus dollars. Tree Care equipment has long been a staple in the Vermeer portfolio. I've seen the black & white photos of an early 3-point grinder shaped like a globe. If you have a relationship with a Vermeer dealer salesman, ask about a tour of the Vermeer manufacturing in Pella, Iowa. If you don't have a relationship with a Vermeer dealer salesman, strike up one! I think you will surprised what a farmer started in 1948!


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## gorman (Nov 20, 2016)

Anyone have any tips for hardsurfacing the sandvik wheel? Type and size rod? Heat level?


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## Mowingman (Nov 20, 2016)

gorman said:


> Anyone have any tips for hardsurfacing the sandvik wheel? Type and size rod? Heat level?


I can not remember the details. However, I called Huey, in Carlton Customer Service, and he provide the info. I needed. Based on his recommendation, my welding shop took it from there. I think Huey said to tell the shop to used the hardest, hard surface rod they could get.
Jeff


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## swaney (Nov 20, 2016)

Jaystihl
Question you asked me, yes your right the cordless remote is very convenient. I like being able to see exactly what I'm grinding and also see the grinder from the distance. When I say that, I look to see what angle the grinder is at or any changes to it when I'm moving it, also easier to see the grinder if there is any unusual vibration to it etc. In addition, with the remote you do stay a little cleaner and not eating so much dust. Plus, when you get ready to sell your grinder, it will sell much easier if there is a cordless remote. When you get old you always look for easier methods to do the job, of course easier methods may not be the best methods. I do understand everyone has a budget they have to stay within. Good Luck and keep us posted.
Swaney


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## gorman (Nov 22, 2016)

swaney said:


> Jaystihl
> Question you asked me, yes your right the cordless remote is very convenient. I like being able to see exactly what I'm grinding and also see the grinder from the distance. When I say that, I look to see what angle the grinder is at or any changes to it when I'm moving it, also easier to see the grinder if there is any unusual vibration to it etc. In addition, with the remote you do stay a little cleaner and not eating so much dust. Plus, when you get ready to sell your grinder, it will sell much easier if there is a cordless remote. When you get old you always look for easier methods to do the job, of course easier methods may not be the best methods. I do understand everyone has a budget they have to stay within. Good Luck and keep us posted.
> Swaney



That's a good point on the resale value. Does the remote set up cause any more breakdown issues being that I'd guess there's solenoid going to the valves?


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## Stump Grinder52 (Nov 22, 2016)

Had mine since 2014 ,had a couple of hiccups when batteries in remote were low,would shut down intermittently once i found the problem easy fix,four AA batteries and back in business.I keep batteries in truck,other than that no issues.Like Swaney said your right there you can se exactly what the wheel is doing,production is better,with a flick of a switch you can take a bigger bite or lighten up the load.


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## Mowingman (Nov 22, 2016)

Same here, low battery issues only, and it was my fault. If I replaced the batteries when the little red warning light starts flashing. But nooo, I always think I can get a lot more life out of those batteries.


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## swaney (Nov 22, 2016)

Only hiccup I've had with the remote, is E-stop switch I had to replace and a toggle switch. In the past I would misplace the remote at times, but I put that on a belt to wear around the waste and never issues since. Like mowingman and stumper52 say, batteries don't last as long as we would .like them to. I still love my remote, once you have one, it would be hard to go back without one.


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## jaystihl (Nov 23, 2016)

oh man you guys are making me have second thoughts. i basically already pulled the trigger on a 5014. i haven't wired the money yet but now im thinking of ordering one with a remote. He told me it was a $5,000 upgrade, which seemed really high. The other downfall was it would take 6 - 8 weeks to order one . i am already backed up on stumps with trees ive already cut down and promised customers i would get to them soon. i could always sub it out but thats money lost. i usually only grind 3-4 stumps a week. do you guys still think i should worry about the remote??????


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## Mowingman (Nov 23, 2016)

The remote is great, and once you have used one, it is a real adjustment to go back to lever control. However, if you have not had a remote control machine, you will never miss it, as you are used to lever control anyway. Yes, resale is probably a little better for a remote control unit, but I bet you don't plan on selling it for many years. I foind I missed the remote a lot of multistump jobs, where I was moving the machine around a lot. I did not miss it all that much on single stump jobs, where you just set up and grind. Would I buy remote control again? Tough call, I would miss it some, but not sure I would miss it enough to spend the extra $5000.00 it costs now. I know it is a hard choice, but:
1. Can you afford it?
2. Can you live without it?
3. Can you afford to wait for the machine to be built?
4. How much "Buyer Remorse" will you have if you don't get it now, while you have a chance?
Tough decision that only you can make. Good luck. Whichever way you go, you are going to get one heck of a great machine.
Jeff


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## Stump Grinder52 (Nov 23, 2016)

Jaysthil,Have you looked around,George at Shelter Tree in Attleboro Ma has a 2015, SP4012, 12 HRS. on it 44HP Kutoba,Sandvic Wheel, lever controlled, full warrenty, Asking 31K,not a SP5015 but no slouch.I personally deal with George,good people always willing to help you out.On Craigslist in South Winsor, Conn. Kaz Equipment has a 5015 with all the bells and whistles ,advertising [End Of Season Sale] doesn't list price.Season winding down quick up here, if interested send me a pm,i have their numbers.These units in stock all you have to do is have them shipped.


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## gorman (Nov 23, 2016)

I will personally vouch for George as well.


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## jaystihl (Dec 8, 2016)

Well i bought the 5014 and absolutely love the quality of Carlton. It is definitely built very well. The only thing I was a little disappointed in is the power of the 35 horsepower gas. It seems to bog down rather easy once you get below ground level. I have the sandvic wheel which seems to be rather large with a lot of teeth which may be the problem. Has anyone tried green teeth on a 4012 or 5014?


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