# $800 seems to be the magic number



## Brush Hog (May 21, 2008)

At least for me. People will pay it no problem but if you try to inch it up it's a no go. I bid on a half dead maple about 40 ft tall for a $1000 and didn't get it. Maybe if I told the guy I'd do it for $900 plus chips it would have sounded better. I was going to take the wood for nothing too. Oh well


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## treemandan (May 21, 2008)

You sound like you just might have it figured out. Consider yourself successful at 850.00.


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## corndogg (May 22, 2008)

I agree. Last year I thought the magic number was anything under a thousand. This year My phone doesn't even ring and if it does the low baller seems to lock up the deal before I can get there to meet with them. It's crickets for me up here.


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## treemandan (May 22, 2008)

My new bidding stratagey is to tell the people to staple 100 dollar bills at 1 foot intervals going up the tree. Where the bills stop that is where it will get cut. I ask them" How high do you feel comfortable?" It been working out so far.


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## treemandan (May 22, 2008)

Anyone else use that technique?


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## Brush Hog (May 22, 2008)

I like the idea a lot. I think I'm competing with the bucket guys. This particular job could have been done in about 5 hrs with a bucket.


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## treemandan (May 22, 2008)

Brush Hog said:


> I like the idea a lot. I think I competing with the bucket guys. This particular job could have been done in about 5 hrs with a bucket.



Yes you have to know what someone else can do the job for and how they can do it, then figure out a way to do it cheaper,and go in lower, even if it means lower standards like not eating that day, maybe the next.
Actually from what I have seen this is the standard. Oh, well, you do what you can.


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## TheKid (May 22, 2008)

i hope i'm not derailing this one here, but i hope the aim is not to always underbid, rather sell your skill, knowledge, reputation, and "persona" among other things. sticking to your guns and getting your value.


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## Brush Hog (May 22, 2008)

> i hope i'm not derailing this one here, but i hope the aim is not to always underbid, rather sell your skill, knowledge, reputation, and "persona" among other things. sticking to your guns and getting your value.



That's exactly what I do. I bid the job for what it is. I want to be known for my work/knowledge not my price.


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## ropensaddle (May 22, 2008)

I bid one cleaned up a 100 foot pine 35" dbh pieced down
2000.00 yesterday tree is really worth 2850.00!


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## custom8726 (May 22, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> I bid one cleaned up a 100 foot pine 35" dbh pieced down
> 2000.00 yesterday tree is really worth 2850.00!



How long do you figure you will be there? Also how much projected overhead? If you can finish it in a day and clear atleast $1,600.00 then its a $2,000.00 tree. I generally get more big jobs ($2,500 and up) then I do small jobs (less then $1.000.00) I think it is because all the guys around here with a saw and a pick-up. They have no overhead and alot of them will work for peanuts so the smaller less technical jobs that joe shmow will do for $100 bucks I bid $350, Guess who gets the job 2/3rds of the time when it is *not* a refferal. The bigger more technical trees that require knowledge in rigging and the equipment nessary to safely remove we generally get.


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## ropensaddle (May 22, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> How long do you figure you will be there? Also how much projected overhead? If you can finish it in a day and clear atleast $1,600.00 then its a $2,000.00 tree. I generally get more big jobs ($2,500 and up) then I do small jobs (less then $1.000.00) I think it is because all the guys around here with a saw and a pick-up. They have no overhead and alot of them will work for peanuts so the smaller less technical jobs that joe shmow will do for $100 bucks I bid $350, Guess who gets the job 2/3rds of the time when it is *not* a refferal. The bigger more technical trees that require knowledge in rigging and the equipment nessary to safely remove we generally get.



The tree is growing outta the roof of his sun room everthing must be
rigged and to make matters worse a three phaze powerline is on one
side, house on other. Multiple rigging will be necessary or a crane but
I have not found a crane service in my area that will do trees. I can
do half of it with my sixty foot bucket and that will help!


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## ropensaddle (May 22, 2008)

By the way I fully understand the lowballers getting the cake and it
sucks.


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## custom8726 (May 22, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> The tree is growing outta the roof of his sun room everthing must be
> rigged and to make matters worse a three phaze powerline is on one
> side, house on other. Multiple rigging will be necessary or a crane but
> I have not found a crane service in my area that will do trees. I can
> do half of it with my sixty foot bucket and that will help!



Sounds interesting!! How long do you think it will take you? How much have you researched crane rentals in your area? Maybe another local tree company with a crane? That is sometimes ideal because they have experience in the field that other crane operators may not. I have found that often the time saved buy renting or leasing a crane pays for itself twice over by the time saved on the job not to mention the wear and tear on the climber and ground crew.


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## custom8726 (May 22, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> By the way I fully understand the lowballers getting the cake and it
> sucks.



Yes it does! Especially with the way fuel prices are now. You almost know when its not a refferal there is a 50% chance you are just burning money doing the estimate, un-less you low ball it.


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## ropensaddle (May 22, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> Sounds interesting!! How long do you think it will take you? How much have you researched crane rentals in your area? Maybe another local tree company with a crane? That is sometimes ideal because they have experience in the field that other crane operators may not. I have found that often the time saved buy renting or leasing a crane pays for itself twice over by the time saved on the job not to mention the wear and tear on the climber and ground crew.


I called everyone in the book and will try again if I get the job.
He liked the fact that I explained the way it had to be done and
said he was not looking for the cheapest only. I said that would be
smart as he needs to make sure they have skill. I told him of another 
service capable and told him middle estimates are usually a good value,
and then said I may be the highest but know what it takes. I figure
I will have it on the ground in 6 to 8 hours and clean up will prolly take
another 4 but it will be me and one helper!


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## custom8726 (May 22, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> I called everyone in the book and will try again if I get the job.
> He liked the fact that I explained the way it had to be done and
> said he was not looking for the cheapest only. I said that would be
> smart as he needs to make sure they have skill. I told him of another
> ...



Well said, I got a bid job a couple weeks ago for $4,500.00 when the guy before me bid $2,500.00 on the same job:jawdrop: After we finished the job the home owner told me this and then proceeded to tell me when he asked the other company how they intended to get the job done the 2 guys just looked at each other waiting for the other one to answer. He liked the way I explained in detail how we intended to get his job done in a professional and safe manner. This is rare when its not a refferal it usuall comes down to the low bid 2 out of 3 times. I was amazed some one bid the job at $2,500.00 It took us 2 days with 4 guys (2 climbers), the bucket truck, 18"chipper, log trailer, Log truck, 1 ton, stump grinder, and crane for 4hrs.


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## ropensaddle (May 22, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> Well said, I got a bid job a couple weeks ago for $4,500.00 when the guy before me bid $2,500.00 on the same job:jawdrop: After we finished the job the home owner told me this and then proceeded to tell me when he asked the other company how they intended to get the job done the 2 guys just looked at each other waiting for the other one to answer. He liked the way I explained in detail how we intended to get his job done in a professional and safe manner. This is rare when its not a refferal it usuall comes down to the low bid 2 out of 3 times. I was amazed some one bid the job at $2,500.00 It took us 2 days with 4 guys (2 climbers), the bucket truck, 18"chipper, log trailer, Log truck, 1 ton, stump grinder, and crane for 4hrs.



I am envious of what ya'all get in other areas they won't usually pay it here but I try to keep the bids up to profit some without ripping anyone off 4500.00 is unheard of here. I can see with a crane where it is fair though and have had to take less as our market is flooded. Most large trees here with little difficulty go at that 800.00 mark and include the stump and clean up.I have learned to bid my price and don't get as much work but profit when I do and work on the equipment when down, has worked so far but not getting ahead much!


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## treemandan (May 22, 2008)

TheKid said:


> i hope i'm not derailing this one here, but i hope the aim is not to always underbid, rather sell your skill, knowledge, reputation, and "persona" among other things. sticking to your guns and getting your value.



Not at all but sometimes even the pros have to go low to keep guys working. There are a lot of us now that we got sick of working for other people.


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## custom8726 (May 22, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> I am envious of what ya'all get in other areas they won't usually pay it here but I try to keep the bids up to profit some without ripping anyone off 4500.00 is unheard of here. I can see with a crane where it is fair though and have had to take less as our market is flooded. Most large trees here with little difficulty go at that 800.00 mark and include the stump and clean up.I have learned to bid my price and don't get as much work but profit when I do and work on the equipment when down, has worked so far but not getting ahead much!



Like I said previously its not common to get the job as the high bidder but in reality out of that $4,500 I maybe cleared 3,000.00 so that is about $1,500.00 a day for technical take downs bolth with the crane and without not to mention the wear and tear on the equipment and employees to pull off a job like that in two days that would have taken alot of other companys 3-4 days to do with less resources. Not having the available resources makes a big difference. 2/3rds of the bigger technical trees we do are because others in the area would not even give a bid because it was out of there expertise or available resources to get the job done effiecently. I figure in N.Y. $1,600-$2,000 a day is making enough to get ahead barely. Between the taxes and long winters N.Y is not the easiest place to make a buck in our profession. *DIVERSITY*


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## treemandan (May 22, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> I am envious of what ya'all get in other areas they won't usually pay it here but I try to keep the bids up to profit some without ripping anyone off 4500.00 is unheard of here. I can see with a crane where it is fair though and have had to take less as our market is flooded. Most large trees here with little difficulty go at that 800.00 mark and include the stump and clean up.I have learned to bid my price and don't get as much work but profit when I do and work on the equipment when down, has worked so far but not getting ahead much!



Yeah well don't be. Envious that is. It works out to be the same. Its the east coast rat race. Lots of rats around nibbling up your cashflow.


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## custom8726 (May 22, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Yeah well don't be. Envious that is. It works out to be the same. Its the east coast rat race. Lots of rats around nibbling up your cashflow.



Things are looking up for us TMD I actually agree with your last 2 posts here


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## ropensaddle (May 23, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Yeah well don't be. Envious that is. It works out to be the same. Its the east coast rat race. Lots of rats around nibbling up your cashflow.



Believe me when I say they are here also tax,ins,license etc. but I have been there and do understand, friggin tolls alone eat me up:hmm3grin2orange:


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## ropensaddle (May 23, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> Like I said previously its not common to get the job as the high bidder but in reality out of that $4,500 I maybe cleared 3,000.00 so that is about $1,500.00 a day for technical take downs bolth with the crane and without not to mention the wear and tear on the equipment and employees to pull off a job like that in two days that would have taken alot of other companys 3-4 days to do with less resources. Not having the available resources makes a big difference. 2/3rds of the bigger technical trees we do are because others in the area would not even give a bid because it was out of there expertise or available resources to get the job done effiecently. I figure in N.Y. $1,600-$2,000 a day is making enough to get ahead barely. Between the taxes and long winters N.Y is not the easiest place to make a buck in our profession. *DIVERSITY*



I did not mean to make you think I thought you were a rip off, I
fully understand the value of risky work done at a professional
level. It is really worth more than that but market keeps it down.
I feel our work should pay similar to lawyers,doctors etc. it is
a profession we suffer from lowballers see doctors and lawyers
don't really have those issues, I wish they did. Call up the doc 
and have them come out and give estimates etc.


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## custom8726 (May 23, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> I did not mean to make you think I thought you were a rip off, I
> fully understand the value of risky work done at a professional
> level. It is really worth more than that but market keeps it down.
> I feel our work should pay similar to lawyers,doctors etc. it is
> ...



Lol! good analogy.


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## sisco (May 23, 2008)

Last year this time I was booming. Ive had 2 small jobs in 3 weeks now. I carry insurance and try to do everything right. I go low trying to get some work back from the local jacklegs. Its getting tough. I think I may have to get a second job and work trees on the weekend when I get them. This industry has become very overcrowded here and there isnt enough work for everyone. I still get most of my work from referels so that will probably continue,


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## treemandan (May 23, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> Things are looking up for us TMD I actually agree with your last 2 posts here



you agree with me? Hold on I will fix that.


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## treemandan (May 23, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> Believe me when I say they are here also tax,ins,license etc. but I have been there and do understand, friggin tolls alone eat me up:hmm3grin2orange:



No, actuall rats! This is the east coast! They will eat anything.


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## custom8726 (May 23, 2008)

treemandan said:


> you agree with me? Hold on I will fix that.



There is not a doubt in my mind you will!!


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## ropensaddle (May 23, 2008)

treemandan said:


> No, actuall rats! This is the east coast! They will eat anything.



Speaking of that we have had a bad case of deer mice getting
in our shack. I found out they carry some dern funky disease.
I got a bunch of those sticky traps and think I have them in
control, man those are the traps, I love them cause I get to 
kill the varmint!


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