# Learning to Fell Small Leaners, Please Help



## secureland (May 22, 2008)

Hi,

This tree is on my property. I've cut firewood before where directional felling wasn't very important.
I'm now interested in learning about directional felling using wedges. 
I have about 400 of these (12"-18"dbh) scotch pine on the property. 
I think these would make good practice, as I want to let some sunlight in for other plantings.

The tree in the pictures has a bend about 9 feet up. 
Using wedges, Exactly how do I get this to go in the direction of the arrow on the picture.

I don't want to attempt this until I feel that it can be accomplished successfully, I do not have equipment to pull or push trees like this over, and they are to big to control by pushing with my arms.

Thanks,
Bill


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## tramp bushler (May 22, 2008)

secureland said:


> Hi,
> 
> This tree is on my property. I've cut firewood before where directional felling wasn't very important.
> I'm now interested in learning about directional felling using wedges.
> ...



Bill , I just typed an instructional reply which disappeared into cyber space somewhere .....

The tree looks like it already leans in the direction you want it to go , ,Hard to tell from the pics tho ........ All stump cuts need to be level ....If you have an older Stihl , Husky or Jonsred saw manual there is an instructional diagram in them ...

There are some trees that can,t be lifted with wedges , 80 deg . is usually too much You can use about a 3ft long plumb bob to tell how much the tree leans , plumb it from 3 sides until you get the hang of it .


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## motoroilmccall (May 22, 2008)

Pics are aweful small, but it looks like the tree leans for just the first 10ft or so, then it straightens out. From the looks of it the lean is too sever to be able to wedge it in the direction you want. Best bet is to grab a ladder, fell the tree where it starts to straighten out in the direction you want, then use a rope and a buddy, or just your body, to push the lower part over where you want it after you cut it. Just make sure to put a wedge in behind your back cut once you get the saw deep enough or you'll pinch the saw, or worse yet, the tree will fall towards the lean, and the opposite way you want it too.


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## secureland (May 22, 2008)

*bigger picture of lean*

Hi Tramp Bushler,
Here's a larger pic, I didn't realize they were so small. 
I'm used to using the standard 1/3 notch with backcut 1" above bottom of notch.
I've not gotten into other techniques and I though these would be trees to start learning how to use wedges. My experience with these cutting trees with this kind of lean is that my current standard method will not work, and the tree will land in the lawn and possibly on the small apple trees.

Thanks for your response, I would have liked to hear your step-by-step. My conventional method won't work on this tree, so I'm going to have to learn to use wedges considering I don't have equipment to push/pull.

Thanks,
Bill


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## tramp bushler (May 22, 2008)

*Sevral installments*

Swamp out around the tree check for widow makers ect , get your escape route all set ..
ALWAYS FALL ANY TREE FROM THE HIGH SIDE !!!!!!!!!!!stand , work on the high side !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1st the horizontal face cut . With this size tree about the bar depth into the tree .. Nice and flat and level . Use the sights on the starter cover and cut until the sights line up with the desired lay ...You need to get right down there and sight it like a rifle or pistol ....The sights work !!!
2nd Make the ,your on the east coast so a Saginaw face cut , [Top Face ]
the corners of the 2 cuts need to match up almost perfectly .!!!!!!!!!!! 
No full face Dutchmen 

3rd I take it , you have plastic falling wedges ?? good 
7" and 10" are probably the best for you 
Start the back cut , about 2 " above the horizontal face cut , . You need to end up with about 1 inch of holding wood if the tree is sound . 
This part is hard to explain so b


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## tramp bushler (May 22, 2008)

*NO Ladders*

 

Any Idea How many people die fooling around with ladders in trees ??????????

Ok , the back cut , 
dog in your saw about 1 " behind your face cut and slowly cut towards the off side WHEN THE BAR IS JUST IN DEEP ENOUGH , START A WEDGE ...Don,t pound it in or you will drive it into your chain [BAD] cut a little tap the wedge , cut a little tap the wedge .. Do not cut the far corner off , leave 1/2"-1 " of holding wood , If you need to start another wedge ... As you are beating wedges , look up as all that thrashin around can snap things up high and they can end up on your head ... Drive the wedges until the tree takes off


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## secureland (May 22, 2008)

no ladders


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## tramp bushler (May 22, 2008)

*Felling tricks*

If the high side and direction of fell is such that the clutch cover is up there are sights on the clutch cover as well ... get right down there and use the sights ... When using the sights keep the bar snug in the cut ...

If it is a Hard leaner , You can start the felling by putting in the back cut first . Not all at once , Figure where your holding wood will be , make sure it is high enough for the stump shot [ height of the back cut above the face ]
leave some tickle wood ,,drive the wedges in TIGHT 
put in the face, you will know if you misjudged the lean if when putting in the face on this technique your bar starts to pinch , if so , put the top face cut in and finish falling the tree in the conventional wedging manner ......

You need the 2 sides of the holding wood to control the fall ,,,, You usually don,t need the heart wood , so you can carefully use the tip of the bar and cut out the heart,,, Not too much , not too little ,.,


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## motoroilmccall (May 22, 2008)

I think his computers killing him, lol. 

Anyways, that tree doesn't seem to lean much to me at all, yes it has a nice ox-bow in the first 10ft or so, but it curves back. 

1. Start your face cut, horizontal first, 4-5 inches should be plenty, even 3 would suffice. Make sure its lined up where you want it to go.

2. Pull the saw out of the first cut, now start your face cut, I prefer a Humboldt face, which is from the bottom, but it doesn't make a big difference for something this size. Make sure everything lines up right, or it may twist on you. 

3. Start your back cut 2" above your face cut, as soon as you have an inch or two of wood showing behind the bar insert your wedge and give it a tap to stay in place. Cut deeper into the wood, keeping a straight cut, and leave about an inch of wood as your hinge. You may need to tap the wedge a few times to keep the tree from pinching your saw if it is enough of a leaner.

4. Once you have your back cut complete, grab your ax and start beating on that wedge (hopefully you have a wedge with a rough face on at least one side, otherwise they tend to pop back out of the wood). Once the wedge starts to loosen up, move to your escape route, the tree is going over. That should fall fairly quick, but I've seen larger timber barely lift off the wedge and take a good 10 seconds to lift off enough to fall.


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## tramp bushler (May 22, 2008)

*More tricks and things*

Wedging trees is a good way to waste time , but it needs to be learned how , the right way ,,,, You will chew up some wedges , you will break some wedges ,. That is how it is ,,, 

A smaller [ less deep ] face and a deeper back cut can make lifting a tree easier .... 
I usually use a Riggin / Frameing Ax for my pack around ax ,, I have a Plumb 28 oz, that I have tapped over millions of board feet with ,, But I now prefer the Vaughn 28 oz .. ......
The best wedge beating ax is a 5 lb Rafting ax as sold by Baileys ,,,,,,,,,They steer pretty well but I have had a couple that the striking face wasn,t square to the eye or bit and they would break wedges ,,, I ground them flat and all was well .... Buy extra 7 and 10 " wedges ...

the tiny 5 " arn,t much 
Thats why they are called topping wedges ....
We use 10 , 12 , 15 ": wedges here ..

The sharper your chain and the truer your bar the more fun and easier your falling will be !!!!!


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## Wismer (May 22, 2008)

the last pic, the bottom leans away but it curves and at least the top half leans in the right direction... from that particular picture it looks TO ME as though its an easy drop


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## secureland (May 22, 2008)

In a couple of days, once I get some wedges, and get over this cold, I'll be back at it. I'll video my technique for further criticism.

Thanks for the replys,
Bill


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## tramp bushler (May 22, 2008)

*Not Critisim*

Motor oil also explains it well , 

Everybody has to learn ,, I appreciate that you hard the guts to ask !!!!
Getting them on the ground in the right way is the tricky part so I,m pretty detail oriented ...
Hopefully you won,t get hung up and have to take your bar off in the tree , but if you do , don,t freak out , just put on another bar and sharp chain , go up about 3 feet and fall the tree , leave a bit extra holding wood , wedge as needed ..

AS LONG AS THE TREE IS IN THE AIR , THERE,S HOPE !!

PLEASE , WEAR YOUR HARD HAT !!!!!

HAVE FUN !!

Gumboot


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## bradstr (May 22, 2008)

Use a very shallow notch-- the more backcut available the better. Start your back cut on the leaning side and work around to the holding side. When you have established the max depth on the leaning side insert your wedge there and pound it in tight. Then when you work around to the holding side start another wedge behind and drive it in as you cut so you won't bind your saw. The result will be that the first wedge will hold the tree from it's natural lean and the second wedge can then be pounded in to tip it over in the intended direction. I use hardhead wedges and it makes falling leaners a whole lot easier.


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## StumpSurgeon (May 22, 2008)

An advanced technique is to make your back cut first, using your sights to basically aim your back cut in the desired felling direction. Then drive up your wedge(s). Now make your face cut being careful to maintain your holding wood rectangle's integrity. Do this once again by using your sights on the saw to accomodate this. Now drive the wedge(s) and complete the felling. This takes practice. Plan on making mistakes. Take it slow. Be able to escape the stump. And don't hesitate to get more experienced help!


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## secureland (May 22, 2008)

tramp bushler said:


> Motor oil also explains it well ,
> 
> Everybody has to learn ,, I appreciate that you hard the guts to ask !!!!
> Getting them on the ground in the right way is the tricky part so I,m pretty detail oriented ...
> ...



Thanks for the help, I'm taking this learning slow, and am in no rush to cut this tree until I understand what I'm supposed to do. 
When it comes to learning something that I haven't done before, I'm prepared to learn what I have to and be patient. I didn't mean "criticism" in the bad sense, I meant it in the constructive (learning) sense.

I appreciate the replys,
Bill

Note:


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## DWB Forestry (May 23, 2008)

*Ever hear of the Game of Logging?*

Game of Logging is a chainsaw training organization that teaches a superior cutting technique that will increase production and decrease accidents. Open face notches, bore cuts and wedge techniques make felling trees much more safe and much more predictable. Check out GOL on the Web.
DWB Forestry


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## ray benson (May 23, 2008)

A couple more small tree techniques.
http://web.extension.uiuc.edu/fores...ting/UIUC_Tims_Tips_Chainsaw_Safety/small.pdf


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## motoroilmccall (May 23, 2008)

DWB Forestry said:


> Game of Logging is a chainsaw training organization that teaches a superior cutting technique that will increase production and decrease accidents. Open face notches, bore cuts and wedge techniques make felling trees much more safe and much more predictable. Check out GOL on the Web.
> DWB Forestry



Wow, you know what DWB, this place your talking about is in my home town, its actually right across from where I went to high school. I never even knew it existed. Its in a commercial building though, that doesn't have any signage on it. I'll have to give them a call when I get back from Florida and find out if they offer anything out of that office, or somewhere local. I'd love to get a full course like that under my belt. The things you learn about your own neighborhood, :hmm3grin2orange: .


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## buzz sawyer (May 24, 2008)

secureland said:


> Hi Tramp Bushler,
> Here's a larger pic, I didn't realize they were so small.
> I'm used to using the standard 1/3 notch with backcut 1" above bottom of notch.
> I've not gotten into other techniques and I though these would be trees to start learning how to use wedges. My experience with these cutting trees with this kind of lean is that my current standard method will not work, and the tree will land in the lawn and possibly on the small apple trees.
> ...




Do a search on bore cutting. For 16' to 24" trees, it's a great way (sometimes the only way) to take down leaners to prevent a barber chair - also great to control the direction of the fall. Don't know that it would be necessary for the tree in the photo, but it can't hurt to try and would be a safe opportunity to learn this technique. I recommend at least a 50 - 60cc saw and sharp chain. Ekka probably has some videos posted showing this method.


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## justintimemoto (May 24, 2008)

if i want to get a tree to go in the oppsite direction it is leaning put the 
1.notch the way you want the tree to go...........
2.and then for the back cut i start on the side where the tree is leaning
3. once u get enough room put a wedge in so that you bar wont get pinched
4.also to get the tree to go the way you want it to go..
5.work your way way across even or it dont work right and the tree may go where you are standing 
6.while putting your wedges in make sure you just dont put the wedge to one side or it will spin so make sure you have one in the middle
7.have an ax so you can hit the wedges in more so the tree goes the right way.
8.And be careful if the top is dead and for things like that

hope this helps you will learn over time how to cut them this is what i learned from cutting for a year i only been cutting trees down since i was 15 and now im 16 so i thats what i learned over time


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## DWB Forestry (May 25, 2008)

*Game of Logging*



motoroilmccall said:


> Wow, you know what DWB, this place your talking about is in my home town, its actually right across from where I went to high school. I never even knew it existed. Its in a commercial building though, that doesn't have any signage on it. I'll have to give them a call when I get back from Florida and find out if they offer anything out of that office, or somewhere local. I'd love to get a full course like that under my belt. The things you learn about your own neighborhood, :hmm3grin2orange: .



There are 14 GOL Training Organizations across the country. WJ Cox is the Parent Home Office. We are Northeast Woodland Training here in VT. It is an excellent course. Kind of revolutionizes the way we used to use the saw. Good luck with it!


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## Burvol (May 25, 2008)

Wedges, Wedges, Wedges, all I always hear is wedges. Throw the damn things away and learn to cut, use em' in a time of real need.


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## DWB Forestry (May 25, 2008)

*wedges*

Logging has become the most dangerous occupation in this country. 
Having the knowledge to get the job done in the safest way possible and still be productive is not a bad thing. There are lots of old loggers who have always done things the "old school" way, but they are still alive because they are just plain lucky. Wedges used properly can mitigate the luck factor! It's all about personal choice until insurance rates are sky high due to folks not being as safe as they could be!


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## rbtree (May 25, 2008)

Burvol said:


> Wedges, Wedges, Wedges, all I always hear is wedges. Throw the damn things away and learn to cut, use em' in a time of real need.



Hmmm, that's intelligent.  

Do tell us (including the beginner who started this thread) how you would fell a back leaner........


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## rbtree (May 25, 2008)

Secureland, on the tree in question, if you make your cuts at chest height, you'll have a center of balance that is much better. Easier to wedge over as you'll need less lift...if any.


Also, on any trees that are 10-12 inches and under, there won't be much room to fit a wedge in. A 5 inch wedge would be good to have for those cases. And, as was pointed out, make a shallow face, leaving more room for wedges to fit in the backcut. The other idea given of placing the backcut first is a neat trick, but not so good for someone who is learning.

Another advanced trick is the quarter cut, described here: http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=781401&postcount=16

Also, wear PPE.....and look up! As the tree comes over, exit at a 135 degree angle to the fall.


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## Fuzly (May 25, 2008)

I would use GOL/bore the backcut in style, but I'm not going to explain it in detail over the net, but it's bascially open face, bore in the backcut, get saw out and start wedges in the bore cut, finish it from the back, and pound 'er over. It would be really cool if someone who knows what they are doing could show it to you. 

You need room for wedges, but from the photo I would say this tree is definitely wedgeable. Most of the trees our class took down, the instructor would have us pick the best direction to fall it, then say "O.K., take it down that way" and point, usually in the 180 degree opposite of the way we wanted to drop it.

It was a lot of pounding, but almost everyone in class dropped a backleaner where they wanted that day.

Before I learned this technique, I would use a shallow face, conventional style, and use the short (5") wedges to make more room, and cut a higher stump to make it easier to work, pretty much the same as rb's good advice.


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## goatchin (May 25, 2008)

I took the GOL class last week (leval 1+2). 

I would have never thought i would have been able to drop a tree away from its side and back lean directly on to a marked stake....surprised the hell out of me honestly when i did it. If any of you guys or gals have the opportunity of taking one of these Game of Logging classes, do yourself and others a favor and take it.


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## Burvol (May 25, 2008)

rbtree said:


> Hmmm, that's intelligent.
> 
> Do tell us (including the beginner who started this thread) how you would fell a back leaner........



Magic! Duh! What kind of tree guy are you anyway?


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## 2dogs (May 25, 2008)

Are you joking?


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## Burvol (May 25, 2008)

2dogs said:


> Are you joking?



No, I cut timber for a living and I use magic. I reach in my back wedge pocket and pull out these little squirrel bones and I condger up a wind storm from the lean side. Ya, I was being a smart guy. I was just being an annoyance. Sorry for the innconvienience. I just think some people that are learning to cut on here might need to have some "hands on" guidance first, instead of learning to fall trees on the internet. But hey, that's how we learn some times. I will be on good behavior for atleast a month now.


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## Zodiac45 (May 27, 2008)

I've got one that makes me nervous. Normally, not a problem, but this one was topped for view many years ago and has 4 tops that make me wonder how the tree is weighted. It needs to fall just down that grass path you see and what your not seeing is my powerlines too the left of the tree. You can see why the nerves, if it falls wrong it takes out the power lines.  




It's bigger than it looks in that photo. Probably a good 30"+ stump. Note the widowmaker on right side up in the branches just waiting too fall on my head!


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## tramp bushler (May 30, 2008)

*Sound trees and directional falling*

If you bore it you can see if it is sound and if so the holding wood will keep it on a pretty straight fall to that lay . Make a pretty tall but not deep face,, bore the heart out a little and wedge it over .. Leave good posts of holding wood....pound it into the fall instead of tickling your holding wood away ...

You can pound a tree up until you cant pound it any more ,,,,then tickle away just enough holding wood for it to raise again ...keep doing that till it falls ....Keep the most holding wood on the side away from the power lines ..and do not cut all the holding wood on the power line side ...... If nothing is comeing at you stay at the stump as it goes over and cut some of the safe side holding wood ...

Make sure you swamp out around the tree well before you start to fall it ..


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## Ekka (May 30, 2008)

There's also the tongue and groove, allows for getting a wedge in behind smaller trees.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=35111


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## Zodiac45 (May 30, 2008)

tramp bushler said:


> If you bore it you can see if it is sound and if so the holding wood will keep it on a pretty straight fall to that lay . Make a pretty tall but not deep face,, bore the heart out a little and wedge it over .. Leave good posts of holding wood....pound it into the fall instead of tickling your holding wood away ...
> 
> You can pound a tree up until you cant pound it any more ,,,,then tickle away just enough holding wood for it to raise again ...keep doing that till it falls ....Keep the most holding wood on the side away from the power lines ..and do not cut all the holding wood on the power line side ...... If nothing is comeing at you stay at the stump as it goes over and cut some of the safe side holding wood ...
> 
> Make sure you swamp out around the tree well before you start to fall it ..



+1 Tramp,

Yep that's the program. I was thinking of doing the face then a bore straight through the center. Hammer the 12" wedge into the back side of the bore and then proceed on each side a bit at a time followed by another wedge on the powerline side. But maybe it's better too just bore the center a bit as you stated. Then back cut and just beat on it, skim it, beat on it, skim it, till she goes. I've been wanting to get after it the past two really nice days but the wind has kicked up both times in the wrong direction (towards the lines). So instead, I'm scraping crap (and paint) out of and around the cedar gutters on my old house.  Not my favorite gig. 200+ yr old house, there's always something to do.


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## 2dogs (May 30, 2008)

Zodiac45 said:


> +1 Tramp,
> 
> Yep that's the program. I was thinking of doing the face then a bore straight through the center. Hammer the 12" wedge into the back side of the bore and then proceed on each side a bit at a time followed by another wedge on the powerline side. But maybe it's better too just bore the center a bit as you stated. Then back cut and just beat on it, skim it, beat on it, skim it, till she goes. I've been wanting to get after it the past two really nice days but the wind has kicked up both times in the wrong direction (towards the lines). So instead, I'm scraping crap (and paint) out of and around the cedar gutters on my old house.  Not my favorite gig. 200+ yr old house, there's always something to do.



A 200yo house deserves a pic. Anything that old around here was made of adobe, aka mud.


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## Zodiac45 (May 30, 2008)

2dogs said:


> A 200yo house deserves a pic. Anything that old around here was made of adobe, aka mud.



Ha,ha yep I hear ya 2Dogs,

This old place is on the coast of Maine and was a Sea Captains house. It had a small island called Round Island on the deed up until the 1960's when an owner before me gave it too the state. It's was used to offload cargo back in the day and then smaller boats brought it into Port. I've researched the house back too 1790. Before that you can't tell if it was a land grant or household. Here's a pix of the east side. There's a deck over too the left accessable from the upstairs bedroom. Nice view of the water. The house faces south and the bay. It's an L shaped deal.


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## Gologit (May 30, 2008)

Burvol said:


> No, I cut timber for a living and I use magic. I reach in my back wedge pocket and pull out these little squirrel bones and I condger up a wind storm from the lean side. Ya, I was being a smart guy. I was just being an annoyance. Sorry for the innconvienience. I just think some people that are learning to cut on here might need to have some "hands on" guidance first, instead of learning to fall trees on the internet. But hey, that's how we learn some times. I will be on good behavior for atleast a month now.



Boy, that's a relief. Glad to know you were just kidding . For a while I thought maybe you'd been eating some of that salmon caught downstream from the Wishram railroad yards that's all full of strange chemicals and it had altered your thinking.


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## Burvol (May 30, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Boy, that's a relief. Glad to know you were just kidding . For a while I thought maybe you'd been eating some of that salmon caught downstream from the Wishram railroad yards that's all full of strange chemicals and it had altered your thinking.



Well, you know how it goes...First off, got have a 361 on hand (I actually own one and like it  ), Calculate the exact lean in degrees, figure out how to incorperate a "bore cut", etc, etc, then take all of that out with you and figure it out. Maybe having someone local that can help would pan out better.


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## secureland (May 30, 2008)

Hi Burvol,
I agree, hands-on experences where empiracal knowledge is passed down from a skilled knowledgeable person to a learning person has tremendous value. For that reason I've been looking at the Game of Logging chainsaw courses. 
The beauty of forums like this is that people freely choose to contribute (or not). Local loggers or arborists might not take time out of their busy schedule to show another local how to do it. I see there's a tremendous amount of experience on this forum, and hope to someday have the knowledge to pass on skills to my family and others. Until then, I'll contribute what I can, where I can, and enjoy the free exchange of ideas on the forum.

Coming soon.... I'll cut the tree down!

Bill


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## Burvol (May 31, 2008)

secureland said:


> Hi Burvol,
> I agree, hands-on experences where empiracal knowledge is passed down from a skilled knowledgeable person to a learning person has tremendous value. For that reason I've been looking at the Game of Logging chainsaw courses.
> The beauty of forums like this is that people freely choose to contribute (or not). Local loggers or arborists might not take time out of their busy schedule to show another local how to do it. I see there's a tremendous amount of experience on this forum, and hope to someday have the knowledge to pass on skills to my family and others. Until then, I'll contribute what I can, where I can, and enjoy the free exchange of ideas on the forum.
> 
> ...


Right on Bill, gotta give a guy a lot of credit for taking the incentive.


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## 2dogs (May 31, 2008)

Zodiac45 said:


> Ha,ha yep I hear ya 2Dogs,
> 
> This old place is on the coast of Maine and was a Sea Captains house. It had a small island called Round Island on the deed up until the 1960's when an owner before me gave it too the state. It's was used to offload cargo back in the day and then smaller boats brought it into Port. I've researched the house back too 1790. Before that you can't tell if it was a land grant or household. Here's a pix of the east side. There's a deck over too the left accessable from the upstairs bedroom. Nice view of the water. The house faces south and the bay. It's an L shaped deal.




That really is beautiful. Thanks much for sharing.


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## Gologit (May 31, 2008)

Burvol said:


> Well, you know how it goes...First off, got have a 361 on hand (I actually own one and like it  ), Calculate the exact lean in degrees, figure out how to incorperate a "bore cut", etc, etc, then take all of that out with you and figure it out. Maybe having someone local that can help would pan out better.



Yup. It sems like everyone is looking for a magic formula that'll make the tree go exactly where they want it to. Like..."If I do exactly THIS, the tree will do eactly THAT"

Wouldn't it be great if it worked that way? About all you can do is apply all the basics and follow all the rules and remember that trees don't really care where they fall...because every damn one of them is different.

Do your best...but stay light on your feet and be ready to run.


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## Gologit (May 31, 2008)

2dogs said:


> That really is beautiful. Thanks much for sharing.



+1 Great old house. Hey, whatever happened to my book? I know you sent it on but what who has it now?


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## Burvol (May 31, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Yup. It sems like everyone is looking for a magic formula that'll make the tree go exactly where they want it to. Like..."If I do exactly THIS, the tree will do eactly THAT"
> 
> Wouldn't it be great if it worked that way? About all you can do is apply all the basics and follow all the rules and remember that trees don't really care where they fall...because every damn one of them is different.
> 
> Do your best...but stay light on your feet and be ready to run.



That's right, they are all a little different. I just GO CRAZY at times reading all the "trick bag" stuff on here, and then the fall out of everyone doing the "eye peck" ritual. I would have to say, even the most experienced and well trained fallers would say, just go cut the damn tree!


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## slowp (May 31, 2008)

Wow, cool house. 200 year old dwellings here are rock shelters, they're the only thing that won't rot. Good luck with the tree, I know nothing that would help you.


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## Zodiac45 (May 31, 2008)

Gologit said:


> +1 Great old house. Hey, whatever happened to my book? I know you sent it on but what who has it now?



Hey Bob,

I sent to Logbutcher.


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## Zodiac45 (Jun 3, 2008)

Took her down today and just in a nick of time. Tramp Bushler you were absolutely right about the bore cut. She was a big ole hollow log at the butt end. Probably 6"-8" of solid wood all the way around. I did a very shallow face then ran the saw round while pounding a couple 12" wedges too keep her thinking about the right direction. The second wedge took a hard hit, disappeared and over she went right down the slot. Glad it's done now cause she might of snapped and took out my powerlines if I'd waited much longer. All the tops were good and solid though so I should get some good crackling hatmatack firewood out of it.


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## tramp bushler (Jun 3, 2008)

*143 Dolmar*

Good deal Zodiak ;; Its nice when they go where they should .. Is that your 143 in the pic ? . I cut timber with one years ago for part of a day in the early 90,s I was cutting out of Coffman Cove ...It had very good power , I was in a nice patch or 2 bushel Hemlock , with a 36 " bar and if I remember 3/8 semi skip chain ... It was a year prior to the 394 Husky coming out ...The 2 problems they had were, the handle bars wern,t very skookum and there was not much for dealers ... But power and performance wise it was the equal to an 056 Mag II and pretty much the same as a 2100 Husky ...... I most definately prefered it to the 056 , but the 2100 was just too tough to beat ......


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## Zodiac45 (Jun 4, 2008)

tramp bushler said:


> Good deal Zodiak ;; Its nice when they go where they should .. Is that your 143 in the pic ? . I cut timber with one years ago for part of a day in the early 90,s I was cutting out of Coffman Cove ...It had very good power , I was in a nice patch or 2 bushel Hemlock , with a 36 " bar and if I remember 3/8 semi skip chain ... It was a year prior to the 394 Husky coming out ...The 2 problems they had were, the handle bars wern,t very skookum and there was not much for dealers ... But power and performance wise it was the equal to an 056 Mag II and pretty much the same as a 2100 Husky ...... I most definately prefered it to the 056 , but the 2100 was just too tough to beat ......



Tramp,

That's a 120si and is a really nice saw in the same vein as a 044 or 372xp. Probably more 044 since its a torquer more than screamer but it's my favorite all rounder. My 143 is down for the count at the moment awaiting parts that are getting harder to come by. I agree those 2100 are a great old saw. I'm looking at one too use on my Alaskan mill. Hard too beat them for reliability and guts. Quite the anchor though!


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## slowp (Jun 4, 2008)

That ought to be enough firewood to heat that house for a day!


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## Zodiac45 (Jun 4, 2008)

slowp said:


> That ought to be enough firewood to heat that house for a day!



Lol Yep! Actually most of the tops are still good and a bit more. The rest punked out. Might get a half a cord out of the deal though.  We just finished another job close by. Took the equiptment out this morning. I left myself a smattering up there too!


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## secureland (Jun 17, 2008)

*Finally Cut Tree-Video*

Finally got a chance to cut the tree (small tree, but I'm learning)
Used Wedges made From White Ash Tree
Had to Tidy up the Face Cut
Wife made Second Video Look like REAL Steep Ground, lol
The Backcut was 2" higher than the Bottom of the Face Cut (too high?)
The Wedges are Helpful
Thanks for all the help from you Experienced Pros!
Please tell me where i can improve!








Prepare for Steep Ground Cutting


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## redprospector (Jun 17, 2008)

I've seen a lot worse looking stump's left in the wood's by people who cut trees every day.
In my opinion your back cut was a little high. In the video I never saw you sight the tree, guessing & hoping is a bad habit to get into.
I think that while you're learning the basics on small trees, you'd do better to cut straight into the "face cut" rather than dogging in and rocking the saw so much. If you're going to dog it in, then set your dog's and bring the bar around untill your sights are lined up with the target. Make it a deliberate motion, rather than back and forth.

The tree's down, no one is dead, and nothing is crushed. I think you did pretty good. 

Andy


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## Zodiac45 (Jun 18, 2008)

Cool Video's Secure!

Thanks for taking the time too post them. How did you get that tree to grow sideways in the second? :monkey:  Anyways, I agree with Red, that you were a bit high on the backcut. I usually try for a inch up from the face bottom. If I am higher than that, I'll angle the back down slightly too the correct height. Well done though, and good example of wedge use.


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## secureland (Jun 19, 2008)

redprospector said:


> I've seen a lot worse looking stump's left in the wood's by people who cut trees every day.
> In my opinion your back cut was a little high. In the video I never saw you sight the tree, guessing & hoping is a bad habit to get into.
> I think that while you're learning the basics on small trees, you'd do better to cut straight into the "face cut" rather than dogging in and rocking the saw so much. If you're going to dog it in, then set your dog's and bring the bar around untill your sights are lined up with the target. Make it a deliberate motion, rather than back and forth.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply,
"Sight the tree", what does that mean?
That was a bit too much rocking trying to get a good cut and the dogs set.
I don't even know if there are sights on this saw. It's a 455 husky

Thanks for the suggestions,
Bill


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## redprospector (Jun 21, 2008)

secureland said:


> Thanks for the reply,
> "Sight the tree", what does that mean?
> That was a bit too much rocking trying to get a good cut and the dogs set.
> I don't even know if there are sights on this saw. It's a 455 husky
> ...



Trampbushler covered it pretty good in post #5. The lines on your starter cover, and clutch cover, and usually on top of your saw are like gun sights.
When you finish the "face cut" you should get behind the saw and make sure the lines are pointed at your target. You can't be as accurate from above, or beside the saw.

Andy


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## tramp bushler (Jun 21, 2008)

*Sights on saws*

Yes the Sights are lines on the starter cover and clutch cover....Your owners manual .should illustrate their use , but you need to get right down and sight in the cuts , The horizontal face cut is the most important .... You actually aim the cut , and thereby the tree ....

Don,t worry about having to do a little extra work to get the face just right ..It,s important to have a good face you don,t want any full face Dutchmen ..It would take in person to teach swinging trees so just stick with the basics ,,They work .. 

Plastic falling wedges are what you need .7" 10" and a 12 " , Medium to hard , one side textured ..... If you look at how much holding wood you broke , that is an indication that you wern,t cut up as close as you could have been ....but as long as you have a good face you shouldn,t have a problem with barber chairing ....


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