# Replacing my beloved Quadrafire with a new Blaze King Princess insert



## Quadrafire2 (Oct 21, 2011)

After around 8 years of burning wood with our 3100i QuadraFire insert I finally decided to upgrade to the Blaze King Princess insert for its well known supper long burn time of 20 hours. 

I feel a little "strange" loosing the QuadraFire, it served us very well running it 24/7 over the winter seasons, it worked really well and everyone loved it especially the kids during the cold winter days.

I am really excited about the new Blaze King after reading so much about its Long burn cycles, I hope I won't be disappointed because this is the only reason I am replacing the Quadra fire. The only concern I have with the BK is the fact that it can only take a maximum of 16" diameter logs, is this true? The QuadraFire took 18" and I always hoped it could take a 20 or 22", it is easier/faster to cut 22" wood than 18".

Please tell me about your experience when switching to a BK.

Thanks!


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## MN Ripper (Oct 22, 2011)

I put the same insert into our main level masonry fireplace last this last spring. I've been running it overnight the past few days due the cooler night time temps. So far its exceeded my expectations. I'm still getting used to the spring controlled damper but I'm learning quick. 

The 16" lengths would be down at the bottom of the firebox from just below the door and up you shouldn't have trouble getting 18" lengths in. Its square so they can go in either direction. 

So far the routine with basswood/ poplar has been start fire around 6:30PM after dinner small pieces to get the cat warmed up good then a full load around 8:00PM and that burns all night into the morning. Wife says its down to the coals for reloading around 10:00-11:00AM the next morning. We haven't been reloading because the house has been getting to hot around 78F so an afternoon with no fire and a window open cools things down a bit. Have yet to see any smoke out the chimney when the cat is engaged. 

So far I'm glad I went with this stove. I had my doubts but the dealer uses one in his own home and invited me in to to show me how it worked from no fire and a cold stove to hot one cruising on low. That sealed the deal for me.


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## Quadrafire2 (Oct 22, 2011)

Wow! This is great to know it can take 18" logs, and I like the fact they can be loaded front to back, it is the safest way to load up the fire box. My setup is going to be very similar to yours (getting it tomorrow), black on black but without your nice silver door trim. Is the stone teak stone? Looks similar to mine... Thanks!



MN Ripper said:


> I put the same insert into our main level masonry fireplace last this last spring. I've been running it overnight the past few days due the cooler night time temps. So far its exceeded my expectations. I'm still getting used to the spring controlled damper but I'm learning quicky
> 
> The 16" lengths would be down at the bottom of the firebox from just below the door and up you shouldn't have trouble getting 18" lengths in. Its square so they can go in either direction.
> 
> ...


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## Quadrafire2 (Oct 22, 2011)

Well, the Blaze King Princess insert is home, drove to CT early this morning and picked it up from Fireplaces, Etc in Connecticut, very good people to deal with and very fair prices as well. Now I need to remove the QuadraFire and install the BK, I need help getting it off the car and to the den... Any volunteers? :msp_rolleyes:

Interesting while I was at the store I was looking at the fire box size of the Princess insert vs Ultra vs the Parlor, the Ultra by far has the biggest volume fire box. I was a little surprise that the Parlor had a slightly wider box than the Insert, maybe 1-2" wider! BK site still gives the Insert 20hr+ burn time so I hope this BK will outperform my QuadraFire by 2:1


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## PA Plumber (Oct 22, 2011)

Awww mannnn, I love my Pacific Energy Summit, but I'm starting to get a roving eye.

We have an enclosed All Fuel chimney that is 6". We just are not in the position to tear it all out to install 8" pipe for a King.

It looks like the BK Princess might the next best thing. Would a Princess be able to put out the heat of a Summit?

We are currently heating about 3000 sq. ft. with the Summit. We use about 25 gallons of fuel oil to supplement during the heating season.


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## Quadrafire2 (Oct 22, 2011)

From what I saw when I measured the the internals of the largest Princess it very large, you might want to consider the Princes so you won't have to change the chimney flue size.







PA Plumber said:


> Awww mannnn, I love my Pacific Energy Summit, but I'm starting to get a roving eye.
> 
> We have an enclosed All Fuel chimney that is 6". We just are not in the position to tear it all out to install 8" pipe for a King.
> 
> ...


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## EXCALIBER (Oct 22, 2011)

Well can't say about the inserts but last year in August I bought the Blaze King Ultra and only wondered why I waited for so long. I came from Montana and it is a very common and popular stove there. I tell people on this forum about them and they just do not believe the long burn times and that it will heat a home. Matter of fact you get almost black listed on here when you talk about BK stoves. I just tell them to go check them out and report back, there is no other stove that is even in the same league as BK period. 

Just buy one and you will not be sorry, I know I couldn't be happier with mine. Warm house, load the stove every day or two, and a thermostat so easy even the gf can figure it out! Hope she didn't hear me type that LOL. Plus more burn time between cleaning ashes from stove due to deep firebox. I can fit 23" logs side to side with mine, but have not tried that yet but will soon.


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## bjorn773 (Oct 22, 2011)

I replaced my prior stove with a freestanding Princess last year. Like others, now I'm wondering why I waited so long. Ok, the price, that's why. Anyway, I could not be happier. It does burn incredibly long... though 20 hours is stretching it. I can load up in the morning, dampen down, go to work all day and come home to enough coals to start up the next load. I burn hotter until about 10 pm when I reload before bed and dampen down again. The next morning I have plenty of coals to get a reload going. I am very pleased and am sure you will be too.


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## Quadrafire2 (Oct 22, 2011)

EXCALIBER, it is all your fault! Seriously.



One of the reasons I bought it is after reading your thread 

We will see if the investment was worth it, it better ... The 3100i QuadraFire is no slouch, in my opinion it is one of the best around. I had it new since 2000 and it worked flawlessly, but if I loaded it at 10pm the next morning at 6am I had just enough coals to restart it, then when my wife got home from work at 4pm she really needed to restart it from scratch. I am hoping that with the BK she would have enough coals to just refill, would it be possible you think?



EXCALIBER said:


> Well can't say about the inserts but last year in August I bought the Blaze King Ultra and only wondered why I waited for so long. I came from Montana and it is a very common and popular stove there. I tell people on this forum about them and they just do not believe the long burn times and that it will heat a home. Matter of fact you get almost black listed on here when you talk about BK stoves. I just tell them to go check them out and report back, there is no other stove that is even in the same league as BK period.
> 
> Just buy one and you will not be sorry, I know I couldn't be happier with mine. Warm house, load the stove every day or two, and a thermostat so easy even the gf can figure it out! Hope she didn't hear me type that LOL. Plus more burn time between cleaning ashes from stove due to deep firebox. I can fit 23" logs side to side with mine, but have not tried that yet but will soon.


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## PA Plumber (Oct 22, 2011)

Quadrafire2 said:


> EXCALIBER, it is all your fault! Seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Our Pacific Energy isn't quite that bad. If the stove is loaded in the evening, we will have a huge bed of coals the next morning. At about 14 hrs, there is barely enough coals to start a fire. To be fair, this is using Honey Locust or Oak firewood.


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## WidowMaker (Oct 22, 2011)

PA Plumber said:


> Awww mannnn, I love my Pacific Energy Summit, but I'm starting to get a roving eye.
> 
> We have an enclosed All Fuel chimney that is 6". We just are not in the position to tear it all out to install 8" pipe for a King.
> 
> ...


 
====


I'm thinking 3000 sq ft might be a little ambitious for a Princess...???


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## Quadrafire2 (Oct 22, 2011)

*allation of stove*

I placed the new BK in the fireplace and it looks like it is a few inches too short, maybe 4". I have a liner going up to the chimney top and at the bottom I have a 45° adapter, the QuadraFire is 4 inched taller due to the fact that the back is flat vs. the BK is slanted. I have to figure out how to fix that. Anyone has an idea? Maybe I should start another thread for that.


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## moose5180 (Oct 22, 2011)

You will love it, they are great stoves.


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## EXCALIBER (Oct 24, 2011)

Quadrafire2 said:


> EXCALIBER, it is all your fault! Seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yikes!!!:msp_scared:I can feel the pressure already. I think a Blaze King takes some getting used to due to it being so different from other stoves but once you understand how to work it and what it likes, I don't think you will buy anything else. Sorry for the slow reply been busy trying to make a new 8 way splitter to speed up splitting that huge pile of wood I have. To answer your question yes you can get 20 hours burn time on low, however I would say that 10 to 14 hours burn time would be more realistic heating a home when its cold out with a princess. Every install will be different as each house is different in what it takes to heat that home. 

I looked up your old quadra fire insert on EPA's site and it lists it as 63% efficient overall. The Princess is 72% efficient overall on EPA's list. 
 
I am curious to see how you like the insert and how it compares to your old one. Did you get it installed yet? My parents have a gas fireplace that I would like to put a wood burning insert into instead, dropping their heating costs a bunch.


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## EXCALIBER (Oct 24, 2011)

PA Plumber said:


> Awww mannnn, I love my Pacific Energy Summit, but I'm starting to get a roving eye.
> 
> We have an enclosed All Fuel chimney that is 6". We just are not in the position to tear it all out to install 8" pipe for a King.
> 
> ...


 
From EPA's list
Pacific Energy Fireplace Products Limited
Summit Series A, Summit Insert, Summit Classic and Alderlea T6
3.6 Gram per hour
10300-37500 BTU/HR
63% efficient
Non Catalytic

Blaze King Industries, Inc.
Princess Insert Model PI 1010A
2 Gram per hour
7,200-29,500 BTU/HR
72% efficient 
Catalytic

I would say you could probably get away with a princess but 3000 sq ft is a lot for one. I would say you are fairly close on btu's according to EPA between the two stoves. I guess it just depends on how hard you have to run your current stove to heat your home. A princess freestanding stove says 1500+ sq ft so like I said every home is different, just depend on insulation, floor plans, ect. The king freestanding says 2000+ sq ft. I think I would opt for the king if I were you, not sure if they make one in an insert or not.


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## PA Plumber (Oct 24, 2011)

I didn't do a very good job clarifying; we have a free standing stove.
On cold days, the Summit gets burned hard.

I would like to be able to install a King, but our All Fuel chimney is 6". 
I don't think the smaller flue is a problem when the King is in Cat Mode, I'm guessing they want it to get the fire going.


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## STLfirewood (Oct 24, 2011)

Do you want my address so you can send that Quadrafire to me? I have a perfect spot for it.

Scott


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## logbutcher (Oct 26, 2011)

ALL Modern EPA wood stoves, insert or stand alone, cat or non-cat, are simple heating devices. They are dependent on flue, quality and species and seasoning of wood, firebox size, internal smoke path(s), and air and internal damper controls. Period. There is no, repeat- NO, magic or extra special engineering involved. And how the H do I know this ? PM for details.

We all have our product enthusiasts- Ford or *Subaru*, Sig or *Glock*, *Stihl* or Husky. The quality, operation, and durability over time are critical. However !----

Now listen: NONE OF THEM WILL CURE STD'S, CANCER, OR DANDRUFF, OR ALLOW YOU TO HAVE INCREDIBLE SEX. There is no violating the Laws of Thermodynamics. Re: no wood stove will produce heat over the enthusiast's claims of 40, 80, 0r 200 hours, or heat the mythical 4000 ft² house. None of them. Not possible. 

I'm surprised that the BK people haven't piped up here to temper the enthusiasm of virgin owners with central heating and newly discoverers of wood heat boasting about those 200+ hour "burns". :angry2: "I will love you in the morning dear." Most of us/we wood burners (OWB and gasification furnaces excepted) are happy with those coals in the morning to re load the fire for the day. 

BK makes excellent products that work extremely well. So do Pacific Energy, Jotul, Woodstock, Harmon, etc.... Temper it with some experience .....first.:beat_brick:

JMNSHO


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## EXCALIBER (Oct 26, 2011)

*Exactly only um Not!*

Exactly Wrong. Like I said Butcher go to someone who has a properly installed and running blaze king and see for yourself. As you have never ran one that would be like me saying oh I seen brain surgery on the tv so its just a simple cut and sew nothing special no big deal to it right. So when are we scheduling your brain transplant to one that works? As I have said before try it before you knock it, until then just keep being a troll. All you are really showing is how little you actually know about stoves, and how they work. If they are such an easy thing to build I would like to see the video of the one you have built and will burn like many of the new EPA stoves will (oh almost forgot, post the EPA's test results on efficiency on your stove you built), after all these company's must be really stupid as all of them spent thousands of dollars in testing, research and development. After all, we never walked on the moon, Elvis ain't dead, Non of these stoves work cuz logbutcher said.:welcome::chatter::notrolls2:

Sorry about the interruption in our regularly scheduled programming folks seems we have some technical issues causing lots of static. We hope we have fixed this problem, thanks for your patience. Like I said anyone is welcome to come over to my house and see mine in action but you are going to need to bring your sleeping bag and food will not be served. I am not afraid which should speak volumes. Secondly a friend of mine already took me up on my challenge and now is going to order a new BK sometime next week, he just can't figure out which one he wants. Heck been thinking maybe I should become a dealer for them as these stoves tend to sell themselves once you see them in person being run. Its a thought.


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## Highbeam (Oct 26, 2011)

"There is no, repeat- NO, magic or extra special engineering involved."

I'm sorry you are so unable to see past your nose. The BK stoves have some special engineering that NO other stoves have. They have a thermostatic air control combined with a cat combined with a huge firebox to allow 40 hour burn times on the King model. Yes, 40 hours of heat. Low heat for sure but you put your hootus in that low heat fire and you will be cooked.

Does your homemade stove have a non-electric thermostat? A cat? A heat output range from under 10k btu to 90k btu? I didn't think so but I still expect you to be a hater.

Good times. I don't even own a BK but I can be educated.


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## PA Plumber (Oct 26, 2011)

I called my nearest BK dealer. Those stoves are nearly twice what I paid for the Summit.
I was told the cat will likely need replaced in 6 years and the price was $600 for a new one.

Here is a pic of my PE Summit after a 12 1/2 hour burn time. 
It might not look like it, but there are lots of coals.

Method of operation; 7 pm loaded stove with Honey Locust onto bed of existing coals, open damper to 600 Deg F then shut down, picture taken at 7:30am the next morning.

I think we are going to keep on using the PE Summit.


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## EXCALIBER (Oct 26, 2011)

Ok was curious so I called where I got my stove and a new cat for a blaze king ultra stove is $299 bucks. Not sure why your dealer would be so much? Oh and yes BK's are expensive. As long as you are happy with your stove, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I would be temped to keep it as long as it was doing what you needed it to do, and save the money. Although if you do get a chance to check out a working bK I would suggest you do as it is neat to see even if you don't plan on buying one. Of course there is a chance you may want to buy one after seeing one work, So it is not without risk! LOL


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## Highbeam (Oct 26, 2011)

The PE summit is a great stove. So is my stone stove. They both cost about the same as a BK if you live in the west. 

I've spoken with the VP of blazeking which is made here in WA. There is a river, the mississippi, in the middle of our country. East of that river all BKs are distributed by a particular company that adds an insane markup that the retail dealers must pass on. The contract between BK and that rotten distributor is set to expire in the next year and the pricing issue will be "resolved" somehow. There are many folks that have traveled west to save thousands of dollars on a BK stove. 

I'm hoping that all BKs are cheaper instead of all BK stoves costing more to match the east coast prices.


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## PA Plumber (Oct 26, 2011)

We do have friends that have a BK King insert. I haven't been around much when they are using it, but they do say it's a great stove.

I would like to stay with a high output stove and the BK King is it. I just hate to change the flue size to 8" to make it work.

If the prices would drop on the King, It would get me interested again.


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## logbutcher (Oct 26, 2011)

Highbeam said:


> "There is no, repeat- NO, magic or extra special engineering involved."
> 
> I'm sorry you are so unable to see past your nose. The BK stoves have some special engineering that NO other stoves have. They have a thermostatic air control combined with a cat combined with a huge firebox to allow 40 hour burn times on the King model. Yes, 40 hours of heat. Low heat for sure but you put your hootus in that low heat fire and you will be cooked.
> 
> ...



In 1989 Vermont Castings engineered, cast, sold one of the first catalytic combustor wood stoves WITH a bimetallic thermostatic controlled primary air control, and a thermostatic bimetallic secondary air (automatic). The Defiant Encore (the one burning here now new in 2001 which the home was built around), and a larger version, Defiant, are in thousands of homes. The 1989 design cat stoves are still sold.

Golf Apple Libra boys. Ain't new. Education. Experience. Humbleness. 

What's with all this ad hominem stuff ? And lay off the nose....I'm going for a nightcap.

Whiskey Tango Golf: what the H is a "hootus" ? Educate us.


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## EXCALIBER (Oct 27, 2011)

PA Plumber said:


> I called my nearest BK dealer. Those stoves are nearly twice what I paid for the Summit.
> I was told the cat will likely need replaced in 6 years and the price was $600 for a new one.
> 
> Here is a pic of my PE Summit after a 12 1/2 hour burn time.
> ...


 
I filled my stove with cottonwood Last night at 12:20 AM when I got home from work. I burned it on high for a while (maybe half hour to 45 min) then turned it down to med low (2 on the themostat) and went to sleep. I took a picture of what was left of the cottonwood at 2:37 PM before I left for work.








I never added any before I went to work and got home tonight at 12:20 AM and here is a picture of the coals that were left still. I probably could have filled a gallon bucket or so with the coals that were left (some you couldn't see because I didn't bother digging them out of the ashes). 












So there is a 24 hour burn time with cottonwood at around 12-14 percent moisture according to my cheap harbor freight meter. The stove was not hot enough to be in the active zone for the cat but was still hot. The stove was also not on low and some of the wood got burned a little faster due to being on high. I would say this would be a normal real world burn in the winter. Now remember cottonwood has a BTU rating of 12.6 million BTUs, 2,040lbs per cord, and honey locust has a rating of 23.7 million BTU's, and 3,825lbs per cord.


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## logbutcher (Oct 27, 2011)

:byebye::tire::tire:


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## Quadrafire2 (Nov 9, 2011)

*Update on Blaze King burn time*

Just a little update on the new BK Princess Insert, I will cut and paste my post from the ********** forum. I have no reason to lie or exaggerate, I just wanted to give as much accurate information as possible for the rest of the AS forum.

"I am officially impressed now, this morning at 6:30am I loaded up the stove and went to work an hour later, I set the stove one dot before the low setting. I came home at 7:00pm , at 7:30 I went to the stove to open the door to put more wood hoping there would be enough ambers. Well, I was pleasantly surprised and shocked to see MANY large pieces of charred wood left, the stove was still in the “active” zone! It is 9:40pm now and the stove is still putting out some good heat. WOW, very impressed and pleased. "

My wife is really impressed with this stove as well, especially for the reason that she does not have to load it when she gets home at 4pm now . She can wait until I come home, actually, I have been waiting till ~ 8/9pm to load it up. We figured we would only need to load the stove twice a day were with the quadrafire we had to load it 3 times, 4 times during the weekends. And another thing, this stove puts out more heat than the QuadraFire did.


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## EXCALIBER (Nov 9, 2011)

Great!! I am very happy you like the new stove and that the boss of the house does too:hmm3grin2orange:. Glad to hear I was not totally full of b.s. LOL. :msp_w00t:I kept wanting to pm you to find out what was up, but life kept getting in the way. Enjoy the new stove, read the manual some good info on loading/operating stove. Load with wood and enjoy!

P.S. Be sure to keep us posted


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## STLfirewood (Nov 9, 2011)

Does that mean you'll be sending me your old Quadrafire?

Scott


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## Quadrafire2 (Nov 9, 2011)

EXCALIBER said:


> Great!! I am very happy you like the new stove and that the boss of the house does too:hmm3grin2orange:. Glad to hear I was not totally full of b.s. LOL. :msp_w00t:I kept wanting to pm you to find out what was up, but life kept getting in the way. Enjoy the new stove, read the manual some good info on loading/operating stove. Load with wood and enjoy!
> 
> P.S. Be sure to keep us posted





Like you, I was too busy with life getting in the way... We are VERY happy with this stove, worth every penny both my wife and I agree (at last we agree on something I like... just kidding, not that bad, she is actually pretty cool and open to my ideas, sometimes that is...). Thank you for sharing this information with us 







STLfirewood said:


> Does that mean you'll be sending me your old Quadrafire?
> 
> Scott



Sorry, that sucker was gone on craigslist within two days... $1,100, a fair price I believe.


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## STLfirewood (Nov 9, 2011)

Quadrafire2 said:


> Like you, I was too busy with life getting in the way... We are VERY happy with this stove, worth every penny both my wife and I agree (at last we agree on something I like... just kidding, not that bad, she is actually pretty cool and open to my ideas, sometimes that is...). Thank you for sharing this information with us
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That was a fair price. 

Scott


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## mhrischuk (Jan 22, 2013)

Unfortunately, when heat is required, you can forget about long burn times, period. I can see the advantage of low heat/long burn times but when it's down right cold, you need to produce BTU's.
Before I purchased my non-cat Equinox, I did some research on the cat products. The thing I did not like was the lower heat output and the cool flue temps realized during long burn times. One fellow on ********** got literally chased of by the "know-all" ignorant moderators when he posted this..



> My family owns a small hearth store in Salcha Alaska where it gets 50 below and one of our best sellers are the inexpensive Timberwolf line from Napoleon. The 2200 model on average gets 10 hours which is more than the company states and can heat 1200sqft in on low fire, Napoleon says 800sqft on low but our houses are very tight up here. Our customers burn a combo of Birch and Spruce with fantastic results. I was very skeptical about Napoleon but their product has really proven it’s self. Another great brand that gets over looked is Archgard. The 1800 Archgard gets fantastic burn times with only a 2.0 firebox. The gasification tubes are located high in the top of the stove which makes for easy loading of the stove. Customers have reported solid 8-10 hour burn with one load and 18 hour coal life for easy restarts. Osburn (SBI) builds a rock solid unit as well. I don’t recommend their bay front units like the1800 or the 2200 because they can be a little difficult to get fully loaded due to the design of the firebox and they are double decked meaning that they have upper shield over the upper surface of the stove. If you do get an Osburn 1800 or 2200 get the blower you'll be happier with the stove. When stove companies make statements about burn times and how their stove will magically make your cord wood last longer look at the facts. Firewood only contains a certain amount of carbon energy and a BTU is a BTU. Example heating 1000sqft at 0 degrees outside using a Pacific Energy T5 VS a BlazeKing Princess. Get a good hot fire going in both stoves and then load 20lbs of wood into each stove. You will need roughly 32000 btus per hr.from each stove. Once going and heating the room you will find that the 2 units will burn through the same amount of wood in the same amount of time to heat the same amount of space. Remember a BTU is a BTU and no stove can make energy from nothing. A Catalyst does not give you better burn times, all catalysts do is clog up, break apart, and rob energy that you could use to heat your home. Catalytic stoves can be turned down lower than non-cat stoves but you will notice that you will never see your fire and creosote will start to form on the inner walls of the catalytic stoves. This happens because the catalytic stove has no combustion efficiency and relies on a costly catalyst to maintain efficiency, not to mention when they are run so low your flue gas temps drop to 200 degrees or less (water vapor starts to condensate at 200) and condensation ruins chimneys and creates crystallized creosote which causes chimney fires. Then we come down to catalytic stove break down, cats have to be replaced, cats have to be made in a factory and you have to pay for them... so how efficient is a stove that relies on a part that is made in a chemical factory on the east coast that creates pollution in order to make a catalyst to make a wood stove efficient and uses precious metals like platinum and palladium. The simple fact is that a catalyst will need to be replaced, whether it is in the first year of owning the stove or 10 years down the road...it will have to be replaced eventually and more than once, usually 4-5 times within the life of the stove and at $250-$300 a pop. In any modern stove you will have what is called Pyrolysis. When organic material (wood) is exposed to heat of 390-550 degrees F Pyrolysis starts which is the release of gas and liquid from the organic matter. This gas that is released from the wood is highly combustible and can be used to heat your home if you have the right stove. The only thing the "wood gas" does for you in a catalytic stove is help maintain catalytic temperature (cold cat=no efficiently and a blocked up cat) so in other words you don’t get to use the energy from the gas to heat your area. With a non-cat stove you have under fire air and over fire air so your combustion efficiency is spectacular, catalytic stoves like BlazeKing only use one source of combustion air, no over fire combustion air which reduces combustion efficiency. When you have a non-cat stove you will notice when you shut down the air supply you will get a brilliant blue/orange flame over your wood in the top of your stove, this is the gases produced by Pyrolysis being burnt or "lit off", my customers call it their caveman TV or Aurora in a box and it is beautiful to watch. The energy you get from the gases burning off is used to heat your area. So with a non-cat stove you have two sources of fuel to burn and get useable heat from, the "wood gas" burns first and when that is depleted your stove will burn the carbon rich fuel left behind called char. Non-cat stoves have fewer moving parts which is great because when metal is heated and cooled it becomes week and can break and when parts break its not going to be 60 degrees outside and it sucks when you have a catalytic stove with a bypass damper that won’t open or close because of a part failure. In my opinion, if it’s not evident by what I wrote, I would go with a non-cat stove every time. Select a non-cat stove that will heat your area properly on its low to medium setting so you have room to turn the stove up during cold snaps, use properly seasoned fire wood, if at all possible, and enjoy an appliance that will treat you and your wallet respectfully.
> Happy burning



I got run off of ********** for being too "braggy" Hey.. we are all of different times, different personalities and different mindsets. I sure hope this forum doesn't treat people like they do on **********.


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## Marc (Jan 22, 2013)

mhrischuk said:


> Unfortunately, when heat is required, you can forget about long burn times, period. I can see the advantage of low heat/long burn times but when it's down right cold, you need to produce BTU's.
> Before I purchased my non-cat Equinox, I did some research on the cat products. The thing I did not like was the lower heat output and the cool flue temps realized during long burn times. One fellow on ********** got literally chased of by the "know-all" ignorant moderators when he posted this..
> 
> 
> ...



I don't know that he should have been run off, but that is an awful lot of wrong he managed to fit into one post. I wouldn't know where I'd begin to try to correct all the wrongness in that rant.


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## mhrischuk (Jan 22, 2013)

Point out some of his biggest wrongs. I'm up for learning more. Isn't it true that the cat wastes a lot of fuel by simply burning it off just before releasing the heat into the chimney? Why did Woodstock decide on the hybrid design? To take advantage of the gases. Burn them IN the stove.

And again... when real heating is needed... low cool burn simply will not cut it.


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## Marc (Jan 22, 2013)

I don't really have time to tackle his post; maybe when I'm not at work. But while I wait for some data from the fire lab, let me address you directly-



mhrischuk said:


> Point out some of his biggest wrongs. I'm up for learning more. Isn't it true that the cat wastes a lot of fuel by simply burning it off just before releasing the heat into the chimney?



No.



mhrischuk said:


> Why did Woodstock decide on the hybrid design?



I don't know, I don't work for Woodstock.



mhrischuk said:


> To take advantage of the gases. Burn them IN the stove.



Why do you bother asking me questions if you attempt to answer them before I even respond?



mhrischuk said:


> And again... when real heating is needed... low cool burn simply will not cut it.



I'm not sure what "real heating" is, or what you think it is. Maybe you could expound on that. I'm pretty sure anyone capable of lighting a self sustaining wood fire is producing "real heat."

I'm also not sure what you mean by "low cool burn." Is there a high cool burn? How cool do you mean, since cool is a relative term? It's wiggle language.

Bottom line: your heating appliance output needs to be sized right for the heat loss of the structure/heated area.

I'd suggest as a first step learning what "temperature" and "heat" really mean and how they relate to one another. That way you can divorce the two conceptually and begin understanding things better.

Maybe then we can move on to the hatchet job that other guy did on the definition of "pyrolysis."


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## Quadrafire2 (Jan 22, 2013)

Cooler flue temp means more heat into room, btu is btu but the trick is to put it all in room vs up chimney/pipe.


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## mhrischuk (Jan 22, 2013)

Are there any negatives to cool flue temps? Creosote buildup?

Wow... rough crowd. No wonder i don't last long in the wood burning forums.


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## Highbeam (Jan 23, 2013)

I switched from a non-cat to a cat this last year. Did it after the research.

It is false to assume that 20 lbs of wood in any stove will deliver the same btu worth of heat into the room. Some stoves are significantly better at converting the energy within the wood into heat for your home. If one stove, a non-cat has high flue temperatures and high flows of flue gasses then it is dumping high amounts of heat up the chimney and not into your home. If a stove, a cat stove, has low flue temps and low flows due to a small intake then you know that much less heat is being wasted up the chimney. This is efficiency, cat stoves are the most efficient in the world. 

The big thing that the cat haters forget is that cat stoves can burn hot too. You just turn it up to a high burn rate and even then, it will consume less wood than a non-cat due to the superior efficiency. What experience will show you is that since you are able to run the stove all day at a medium or low output, a high burn rate is just about never needed.

See burning a cat stove is about a steady output all day and not a rollercoaster of surges in output between reloads such as with a non-cat. 

New BKs come with a 10 year warranty on the cat element and then 200-300$ to replace. Cheap and not an actual issue. 

Lots of people like the Woodstock PH. It serves a purpose for some by providing a pretty flamshow. I am very disappointed with this stove because the "hybrid" feature screws it up. This feature eliminates long and low burn times which is the real reason for a cat stove in the first place.


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## Highbeam (Jan 23, 2013)

mhrischuk said:


> Isn't it true that the cat wastes a lot of fuel by simply burning it off just before releasing the heat into the chimney?To take advantage of the gases. Burn them IN the stove.
> 
> And again... when real heating is needed... low cool burn simply will not cut it.



I see your problem. You do realize that the cat is in the stove right? That the cat gets hot and causes the stove to become hot. The cat is often the main heat source and the wood burning is just providing smoke for the cat to eat. The cat isn't to clean up the emissions, the cat is the workhorse, the cat is the stove.

A low cool burn all day can put more heat into the home than a short hot fire. Again, it's a whole concept and style of burning. 

I was like you, I liked coming home from work and warming up the house with a nice, hot, eyeball searing fire and then loading again before bed. Just imagine coming home to a warm house and not messing with the stove at all, it's already warm, and the last time you loaded the stove was yesterday before bed.


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## mhrischuk (Jan 23, 2013)

Sounds like a great stove for the Pacific Northwest weather although I don't believe Blaze Kings claim of 40 hr burn time. At least not 40 hrs of good heat. Most every experience I have read disputes that burn time. So you sit back and say.. hey.. this company is stretching the truth. What else are they stretching?

I think I would miss the nice blaze every night.


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## Highbeam (Jan 23, 2013)

mhrischuk said:


> I don't believe Blaze Kings claim of 40 hr burn time. At least not 40 hrs of good heat. Most every experience I have read disputes that burn time. So you sit back and say.. hey.. this company is stretching the truth. What else are they stretching?



You haven't read this thread then or the many just like it all over from real owners. To put it another way, I have never spoken with a single BK owner that did not get the advertised burn time when set to low. That's 40 hours for the King and 30 hours for the princess. All good heat. What is "good heat" anyways? You must understand that this stove is the only stove that can burn 30 hours (princess) at low output or 10-12 hours at high output. Choose your desired output, set it, and enjoy the "good heat". The BK line dominates in AK. I am pretty sure that they appreciate "good heat" there too.

If only you actually had any experience with this stove you would believe.


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## MN Ripper (Jan 24, 2013)

I've had the blazeking princess insert heating our home for a number of years now and its done as advertised and operated very well. Like the dealer and blazeking owner himself I bought it from said "it takes the BS out of burning wood" My winters are no longer slave to the stove schedule. It gives out great heat output right down the last few chunks of charcoal which is about the same time the cat goes inactive and ready to reload. For our 1600 sq ft with drafty windows home I know I can count on it for average 24hr burn with red oak keeping it a least 72~76 indoors when its in the teens or warmer out.


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## mhrischuk (Jan 25, 2013)

I would definitely go for the King in my case. Hopefully they will come up with a model that's the same stove size and burn but with a more palatable look.


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## Quadrafire2 (Nov 14, 2013)

Well, time for an update... this season would be the third with our new bk insert, I can say that the stove met all our expectations and more. I have leaned that the insert has the smalest firebox out of all the princes, around 2.5cf vs 2.9cf I believe. Even so we get nice solid 12 hour burns of solid heat on 1/3 open setting. It is interesting to note that it works even better when it is cold outside

Enjoy the fires this winter everyone!

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## jb1950 (Apr 22, 2017)

Quadrafire2 said:


> Well, time for an update... this season would be the third with our new bk insert, I can say that the stove met all our expectations and more. I have leaned that the insert has the smalest firebox out of all the princes, around 2.5cf vs 2.9cf I believe. Even so we get nice solid 12 hour burns of solid heat on 1/3 open setting. It is interesting to note that it works even better when it is cold outside
> 
> Enjoy the fires this winter everyone!
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## jb1950 (Apr 22, 2017)

Hello, I just signed on here... I am thinking of installing a Blaze King Princess Insert... I live in Portland, OR, so we have quite mild winters (although this year was somewhat of an exception... cold with snow for a few weeks...

I would like to know how the Princess Insert does in mild temps, and also, how it does without the blower running...I would like to go as passive as possible...

Thanks for your help...


John


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## Highbeam (Apr 25, 2017)

jb1950 said:


> Hello, I just signed on here... I am thinking of installing a Blaze King Princess Insert... I live in Portland, OR, so we have quite mild winters (although this year was somewhat of an exception... cold with snow for a few weeks...
> 
> I would like to know how the Princess Insert does in mild temps, and also, how it does without the blower running...I would like to go as passive as possible...
> 
> ...



Nice old thread. For mild weather it is even more important to have the minimum specified chimney length of 15'. Bends in the flue add to the minimum. I burn my princess almost daily until sometime in June and the stove has no troubles burning when it is 60 degrees outside and 65 inside. The ability to run at really low output which is all you need this time of year.


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