# Stihl MS261 C-M 3/8 Chain?



## fishinfiend (Dec 31, 2013)

I am looking at the above model with either a 16 or 18 inch bar and chain. I was thinking about getting it with a 3/8 chain, but in the book the dealer could not find it so he called the distributor and they said that it can be done, but they found that the saw had a higher failure because of using smaller shafts and bearings than the larger pro saws. So my question is have any of you guys experienced any of these problems? Also, what are your thoughts on 16 vs. 18 in. bar on that saw? I have a 362 with a 3/8 (I believe) 20" bar at my disposal.

Thanks for the replies.


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## XSKIER (Dec 31, 2013)

No way I would dispose of a MS 362 20"... I would take it out and cut wood! I'm pretty sure there is no difference in kerf size between .050 and .063 drivers, but nobody will agree on that. Also, no one will ever agree on which drive pitch is best for the MS 261 C-M, so you might as well try .404 and let the rest of us know. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/index.php?threads/238484/


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## Raganr (Dec 31, 2013)

The 261 Mastermind built for my dad wears an 18" 3/8 with full comp RS chain. I would go for .063 gauge.



I think Mastermind has a video of a ported 261 pulling a 3/8 25" bar buried. 

You could probably get away with a 20" 3/8 bar on a 261 as long as you don't run it buried all the time.


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## MCW (Dec 31, 2013)

I'd go to a different dealer. The 261 has been a very reliable platform regardless of the chain that is run on it. The 261's will handle 3/8" chain not a problem and I ran it on my 261 on a 20" bar. On a 16" or 18" bar 3/8" chain would be my choice over .325" and basically the choice of every experienced member on this forum. Even the fully ported 261's by Brad Snelling or Mastermind have not had any bearing failures and the power output of these is significantly higher than a stock saw.

3/8" is built with a heavier chassis, will wear better, will last longer, and there is a wider variety of c hain choices on the market.



Brush Ape said:


> When you run .375 chain on that MS261, get the chain, guide bar and sprocket in .050 gauge instead of .063 which is what is on your 362. It is the more narrow kerf that will keep you from having premature bearing failure.



The kerf is the same on 3/8" chain whether it's .050" or .063". You are thinking of gauge.


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## MCW (Dec 31, 2013)

Brush Ape said:


> OKey. Why does Stihl call for .050 3/8 chain on the 260/261?



Because you are in the US where .050" is Stihl's standard chain gauge - on longer bars you'll tend to find more and more .063" but even then that depends on which part of the US you are in. In Australia the 261's are supplied with 3/8" .063" chain which is Stihl Australia's standard gauge in .325" and 3/8". It is a regional thing and nothing to do with kerf.
The cutter part # from Stihl is exactly the same regardless of the gauge. It is exactly the same cutter across .050", .058", and .063".


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## AKDoug (Dec 31, 2013)

Brush Ape said:


> When you run .375 chain on that MS261, get the chain, guide bar and sprocket in .050 gauge instead of .063 which is what is on your 362. It is the more narrow kerf that will keep you from having premature bearing failure.


That is completely regional. You will not find .063 3/8 chain anywhere in my area, and rarely in the Northwest. .050x3/8 will work fine on that saw. The 3/8 sprocket is listed in the IPL for the 261. I converted one yesterday for a guy that owned dozens of 3/8 chains for his older Stihl products and wasn't about to convert to .325.


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## moody (Dec 31, 2013)

Let's try to get some good information stuck this thread. These are questions I think people need to ask about gauge and pitch.

What does gauge affect?

What are the differences between pitch?

What suits my cutting better?


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## bootboy (Dec 31, 2013)

XSKIER said:


> No way I would dispose of a MS 362 20"... I would take it out and cut wood! I'm pretty sure there is no difference in kerf size between .050 and .063 drivers, but nobody will agree on that. Also, no one will ever agree on which drive pitch is best for the MS 261 C-M, so you might as well try .404 and let the rest of us know.
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/index.php?threads/238484/




"At my disposal" means available to use. It means nothing about getting rid of it. 

Maybe you were being sarcastic, but it failed to register.


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## bootboy (Dec 31, 2013)

To the OP.

Figure out what's available in your area and go with what's common. I for one, have no issues running 3/8 LP on a 50cc saw. Though it would require a non Stihl bar if you wanted to run an 18". 

.050 LP chain is pretty universal.


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## AKDoug (Dec 31, 2013)

> I told him to use .050x3/8" chain on the 261 if he wants to run .375 chain and so did Stihl. .063 x 3/8 Stihl RSC is all I run on larger Stihls regularly. .063 x .325 RSC is all I run on 026/261 Stihls. No trouble getting it. I've got hundreds of feet.


 My response was geared to the fact you assumed that his 362 is running .063, which it may not be. I cannot order a 362 with .063 3/8 chain from my Stihl distributor (Stihl NW). He did not list his location, so we have no clue what is available in his area.



> The only Stihl Pro saws in the US for which the standard gauge is .050 x .375 is the MS201T. That is 3/8 pitch by .050 gauge picco micro cutter shape. The rest are supplied with .063 x.325 and .063 x .375. At the dealership level, perhaps regionally you are offered something lighter.


 This is also incorrect. The standard for 441 and 461 in our area is .050 3/8, but the .063 is available. Our 201T's come with .50x.375 PICCO, which is a whole other discussion


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## blsnelling (Dec 31, 2013)

Brush Ape said:


> I told him to use .050x3/8" chain on the 261 if he wants to run .375 chain and so did Stihl. .063 x 3/8 Stihl RSC is all I run on larger Stihls regularly. .063 x .325 RSC is all I run on 026/261 Stihls. No trouble getting it. I've got hundreds of feet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Are you suggesting that the gauge of the chain affects the width of the cutter?


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## MCW (Dec 31, 2013)

Brush Ape said:


> The only Stihl Pro saws in the US for which the standard gauge is .050 x .375 is the MS201T. That is 3/8 pitch by .050 gauge picco micro cutter shape. The rest are supplied with .063 x.325 and .063 x .375. At the dealership level, perhaps regionally you are offered something lighter.



Yeah the chain's kerf does have to be wider than the guide bar. Normally that isn't an issue but running 3/8" noses and chain on some of the longer GB Ti Extra Long bars can cause issues as can running NK .325" chain on normal .325" bars on the odd occasion.
It depends which area of the US you are in regarding chain gauge. Every single larger US delivered Stihl saw I have been sent is in 3/8" .050" standard (not picco). I've had dozens of larger pro Stihls sent to me over the years. Like myself and others said earlier it depends which part of the US you are in and even what your dealer preferences are.


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## walexa07 (Dec 31, 2013)

Brush Ape said:


> When you run .375 chain on that MS261, get the chain, guide bar and sprocket in .050 gauge instead of .063 which is what is on your 362. It is the more narrow kerf that will keep you from having premature bearing failure.



Your words sure look to me that you are confusing gauge with kerf. As stated by others, .375 chain, whether it is .050 gauge or .063 gauge, will have the same kerf.

Waylan


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## fishinfiend (Dec 31, 2013)

The MS362 is my dads. The chain is 1.3mm or 0.05". Also I am from Northeast WI. 
So, none of you guys had any problems with a 261 using 3/8 chain?
And Thanks for all the replies so far.


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## MCW (Dec 31, 2013)

fishinfiend said:


> So, none of you guys had any problems with a 261 using 3/8 chain?



No. 3/8" chain is fine on a 261.


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## treesmith (Dec 31, 2013)

OMy 261oe from Randy (in TN) came with a choice IIRC of 18" .325, .050 or .063. Chose the .063. Changed b/c to 18" 3/8 .063, fantastic, same but 20" works fine for me too. When I bought the 18" the Stihl dealer tried to persuade me to go 16“, I said it was modified and he just turned round and got the 18" 
EDIT- the original .325 18“ chisel b/c cut real fast and worked well but grabbed a little too much in hardwood and dulled quicker, all my other saws run 3/8 .063 so just matched up. 


For those that know, my 261 has no mounting holes in the clutch cover for dogs, can I change the clutch cover to fit dual dogs and what will fit? 441? Something less prone to filling with noodles would be good, are twin dogs standard on the 261cm? 
Cheers all, Andy


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## MCW (Jan 1, 2014)

treesmith said:


> For those that know, my 261 has no mounting holes in the clutch cover for dogs, can I change the clutch cover to fit dual dogs and what will fit? 441? Something less prone to filling with noodles would be good, are twin dogs standard on the 261cm?
> Cheers all, Andy



You'll find the indents for where to drill holes under the nylon chain guides in the clutch cover. Just pop the two nylon guides out with a screwdriver and you'll see where to drill. Very easy to do. From memory it is either the MS361 or MS362 dual spikes that will fit the 261. All you will need is longer bolts.


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## treesmith (Jan 1, 2014)

Beautiful, thanks Matt


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## Hinerman (Jan 1, 2014)

HUH???? What just happened here?


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## BKrusher (Jan 1, 2014)

MCW said:


> No. 3/8" chain is fine on a 261.


The expert I talked to was Randy Evans about what size chain to use, either .325 or 3/8 on a 261, as I have read a lot over the past two years about this concerning 50cc. Either is fine for whatever reason you may have. .325 on a ported 50cc isn't gonna over rev or wear out the saw!!


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## BKrusher (Jan 1, 2014)

fishinfiend said:


> The MS362 is my dads. The chain is 1.3mm or 0.05". Also I am from Northeast WI.
> So, none of you guys had any problems with a 261 using 3/8 chain?
> And Thanks for all the replies so far.


Not at all here anyways. .325 for me is faster in red oak w/16" guide bar. Really not even close in my eyes. There are different reasons to run 3/8 though....but being faster the cut is not one of them in my opinion. This is comparing 16" .325 vs 3/8 RM semichisel.


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## MCW (Jan 1, 2014)

BKrusher said:


> The expert I talked to was Randy Evans about what size chain to use, either .325 or 3/8 on a 261, as I have read a lot over the past two years about this concerning 50cc. Either is fine for whatever reason you may have. .325 on a ported 50cc isn't gonna over rev or wear out the saw!!



Did I say that .325" would over rev or wear out the saw? You can run either chain on a 261 without problems. If you looked around you may have even seen my 261 running both sized chains in comparisons.


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## BKrusher (Jan 1, 2014)

MCW said:


> Did I say that .325" would over rev or wear out the saw? You can run either chain on a 261 without problems. If you looked around you may have even seen my 261 running both sized chains in comparisons.


Some members were implying before in another thread about this that a ported 50cc should run 3/8 for fear of over revving the saw....that's all.


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## BKrusher (Jan 1, 2014)

MCW -I think this is the third thread about 3/8 vs. .325 on a ms 261 in about two weeks. Since this a saw I run a lot I thought I would share my opinion.


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## MCW (Jan 1, 2014)

BKrusher said:


> Some members were implying before in another thread about this that a ported 50cc should run 3/8 for fear of over revving the saw....that's all.



Oh. I hope you jumped into the screen and slapped them  This sort of wrong advice is starting to infest AS at an alarming rate, hence the other thread I started today.


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## MCW (Jan 1, 2014)

BKrusher said:


> MCW -I think this is the third thread about 3/8 vs. .325 on a ms 261 in about two weeks. Since this a saw I run a lot I thought I would share my opinion.



These sorts of threads have been going on for years around here  The search function must still be broken. My threads were from 3-4 years ago.


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## BKrusher (Jan 1, 2014)

MCW said:


> Oh. I hope you jumped into the screen and slapped them  This sort of wrong advice is starting to infest AS at an alarming rate, hence the other thread I started today.


Exactly MCW, not trying to discredit you in any way my friend.


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## MCW (Jan 1, 2014)

BKrusher said:


> Exactly MCW, not trying to discredit you in any way my friend.



It amazes me that anybody would say that. Hopefully they weren't saw builders. If they were then buy a saw from a different builder. If it was a methanol hotsaw then I'd understand the over-reving part, but not in a properly tuned work saw.


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## outdoortype (Jan 1, 2014)

So then, does a 3/8 chain produce more stress/load on the bearings, crankshaft, clutch etc? It seems as though mfg reccommended setups are not purely based on horsepower.


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## MCW (Jan 1, 2014)

outdoortype said:


> So then, does a 3/8 chain produce more stress/load on the bearings, crankshaft, clutch etc? It seems as though mfg reccommended setups are not purely based on horsepower.



It certainly can, particularly with aggressive chain setups, but the 261's are built pretty solid just like all of Stihl's pro saws. There are a number of ported 261's running with 3/8" in Australian hardwood by guys that put a lot of hours on saws. I'm yet to hear any problems with these saws from a bearing, crank, or clutch point of view. It would be interesting to hear from any Stihl dealers as they generally find out first if there is a known issue with a particular saw model.


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## outdoortype (Jan 1, 2014)

MCW said:


> It amazes me that anybody would say that. Hopefully they weren't saw builders. If they were then buy a saw from a different builder. If it was a methanol hotsaw then I'd understand the over-reving part, but not in a properly tuned work saw.


 People tend to theorize and assume based on their own logic. None of my saws are modded and they all tached higher rpms buried in the wood than the max horsepower/rpm mfg specs. Does that mean that I'm wasting horsepower with too small of a bar & chain? See what I mean.


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## MCW (Jan 1, 2014)

outdoortype said:


> People tend to theorize and assume based on their own logic. None of my saws are modded and they all tached higher rpms buried in the wood than the max horsepower/rpm mfg specs. Does that mean that I'm wasting horsepower with too small of a bar & chain? See what I mean.



I can see where some people would have that logic but rpm ratings in the wood really can't be standardised as there are so many variables it's not funny. A saw that isn't over-revving out of the wood certainly won't over-rev in the wood. If it's over-revving out of the wood it's too lean.


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## outdoortype (Jan 1, 2014)

Good points MCW. For all we know, the guys at the factory are laughing to themselfs right now. "We just thought we'd sell more of them if we listed them with both chain types".


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## fishinfiend (Jan 1, 2014)

Yes I know that this is another MS 261 3/8 thread, but it is different. It is asking about saw failures with the 3/8 chain. After reading the other threads on 3/8 vs 325 I was sold on 3/8 but after my dealer told me about how there may be premature failures, I had to look into it. I would not have started this thread if I would have seen it on another one. Also, there would have not been this thread if I was a Thread Hijacker but I am not. So, you do but you don't have another MS261 3/8 b/c thread.


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## moody (Jan 1, 2014)

I'd love for someone to explain how chain could cause "over revving". I would also like someone to explain this over rrevving as well.


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## sunfish (Jan 1, 2014)

This could possibly be the most confusing thread ever! opcorn:


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## moody (Jan 1, 2014)

sunfish said:


> This could possibly be the most confusing thread ever! opcorn:



+1


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## fishinfiend (Jan 1, 2014)

What's so confusing? I was just asking if any of you guys had any failures to the MS261 due to running a 3/8 chain over 325.


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## sunfish (Jan 1, 2014)

fishinfiend said:


> What's so confusing? I was just asking if any of you guys had any failures to the MS261 due to running a 3/8 chain over 325.


Not your question, but a lot of the replies here.

You can run 3/8 chain on your 261 with no problem. It may or may not be any better than .325.

Gage has nothing to do with the original question...


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## BKrusher (Jan 1, 2014)

3/8 or .325, whatever is a good choice I'm saying. Some other members stated it might be a good idea to go 3/8 cause you stay in the powerband of a 50cc ported saw better, cutting better, less wear on the saw, no over revving the saw... you name it. All i'm saying is I have faster cut times with .325... I have a masterminded 261cm and before that a Sneller 261 with muff mod and advanced timimg. I got some experience with this so I'm just stating my findings is all. They both work great, try em out and decide for yourself. Im talking modded 261's here...Happy New Year by the way.


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## BKrusher (Jan 1, 2014)

sunfish said:


> Not your question, but a lot of the replies here.
> 
> You can run 3/8 chain on your 261 with no problem. It may or may not be any better than .325.
> 
> Gage has nothing to do with the original question...


Very true.


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## moody (Jan 1, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Just take off the chain and stand on it, moody. You'll find out about over rrevvvng faster.



It's rev limited boss


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## moody (Jan 1, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> Just take off the chain and stand on it, moody. You'll find out about over rrevvvng faster.



And you've yet to explain how chain can cause this. You've confused the OP with statements that aren't true. Your over revving statement is not a factor here as the OP is wanting a bar and chain on the saw. Your statement about bearing failure was false. The only thing gauge affects is oil carried down the bar rail. It's ok to say you're not sure. But it's not ok to post misinformation. I'm not mad and I'm not telling you to stop posting, I'm just saying be sure before you post you have gotten reliable information.


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## moody (Jan 1, 2014)

Brush Ape said:


> What's a'"Bat Rail?"


Typo for you don't know how to admit youre out of your element.


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## Philip Wheelock (Jan 1, 2014)

moody said:


> I'd love for someone to explain how chain could cause "over revving". I would also like someone to explain this over rrevving as well.


Local Stihl tech's comments FWIW: We were discussing bar lengths for my MS440's and he recommended 20" and certainly no shorter than 18" for hardwood, for the reason that too short a bar and chain length wouldn't load the motor enough to keep it within the power band at WOT. Basically he was saying that the bottom end will last longer at 9500 rpm than 13000 rpm due to increased dynamic loads & heat. However, his standard fuel mix is 50:1 w/Stihl dino oil (orange bottle); running a good synthetic oil at 32:1 or 40:1 probably makes this "over-revving" concern a moot point.


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## MCW (Jan 1, 2014)

fishinfiend said:


> Yes I know that this is another MS 261 3/8 thread, but it is different. It is asking about saw failures with the 3/8 chain. After reading the other threads on 3/8 vs 325 I was sold on 3/8 but after my dealer told me about how there may be premature failures, I had to look into it. I would not have started this thread if I would have seen it on another one. Also, there would have not been this thread if I was a Thread Hijacker but I am not. So, you do but you don't have another MS261 3/8 b/c thread.



Your thread is different and definitely has merit and is worth answering. Ask your dealer where his premature failure information came from - if it came from Stihl then it is legit. The answer could be as simple as him not having a 3/8" bar in stock to sell you. Seriously.


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## MCW (Jan 1, 2014)

Philip Wheelock said:


> Local Stihl tech's comments FWIW: We were discussing bar lengths for my MS440's and he recommended 20" and certainly no shorter than 18" for hardwood, for the reason that too short a bar and chain length wouldn't load the motor enough to keep it within the power band at WOT. Basically he was saying that the bottom end will last longer at 9500 rpm than 13000 rpm due to increased dynamic loads & heat. However, his standard fuel mix is 50:1 w/Stihl dino oil (orange bottle); running a good synthetic oil at 32:1 or 40:1 probably makes this "over-revving" concern a moot point.



Local Stihl tech needs to learn how to adjust the chain to suit the wood or how to put more pressure on a saw. If a stock MS440 can pull 13,000 in the cut, well it ain't cutting.


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## MCW (Jan 1, 2014)

moody said:


> And you've yet to explain how chain can cause this. You've confused the OP with statements that aren't true. Your over revving statement is not a factor here as the OP is wanting a bar and chain on the saw. Your statement about bearing failure was false. The only thing gauge affects is oil carried down the bar rail. It's ok to say you're not sure. But it's not ok to post misinformation. I'm not mad and I'm not telling you to stop posting, I'm just saying be sure before you post you have gotten reliable information.



My thoughts are that the gauge question came about related to kerf because somebody didn't know that there is a difference between standard 3/8" chain and 3/8"LP. They assumed that 3/8" .050" meant low profile chain, hence the narrower kerf over 3/8" .063". This is why the thread got off track and had nothing to do with the OP's question.


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## fishinfiend (Jan 1, 2014)

When I talked to him he said that it came from stihl, but he got all the numbers for putting the saw together with 3/8. he was willing to do it right then but the saw is a lot of money and I wanted to ask around before I said do it. The reason he said it was because the saw has smaller bearings and shaft over the bigger saws.

I have another question now, it is 3/8 .050 or .325 .063?


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## XSKIER (Jan 1, 2014)

fishinfiend said:


> I have another question now, it is 3/8 .050 or .325 .063?



Yes to both.


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## moody (Jan 1, 2014)

[


fishinfiend said:


> When I talked to him he said that it came from stihl, but he got all the numbers for putting the saw together with 3/8. he was willing to do it right then but the saw is a lot of money and I wanted to ask around before I said do it. The reason he said it was because the saw has smaller bearings and shaft over the bigger saws.
> 
> I have another question now, it is 3/8 .050 or .325 .063?



I've not seen or been told about bearing issues with the 261. Guys that run more than one saw try to stick with the same pitch and guage chain. Running either of those will boil down to personal preference. Some say there's a difference in speed but the average cutter wont notice it while cutting.


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## showrguy (Jan 1, 2014)

i was running my masterminded 441 m-tronic the other day with an 18" bar, 3/8ths .050 rs, full chissel/comp chain, and i think i might have "over-revved" it in the cut...

the reason i think this is because it ripped through the red oak log i was cutting really phukking fast !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Eccentric (Jan 1, 2014)

moody said:


> I'd love for someone to explain how chain could cause "over revving". I would also like someone to explain this over rrevving as well.




If yer not careful you'll blow these out...


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## moody (Jan 1, 2014)

Eccentric said:


> If yer not careful you'll blow these out...



Those damned muffler bearings!


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## sunfish (Jan 1, 2014)

showrguy said:


> i was running my masterminded 441 m-tronic the other day with an 18" bar, 3/8ths .050 rs, full chissel/comp chain, and i think i might have "over-revved" it in the cut...
> 
> the reason i think this is because it ripped through the red oak log i was cutting really phukking fast !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


There is no "over revving" a saw when cutting...


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## showrguy (Jan 1, 2014)

sunfish said:


> There is no "over revving" a saw when cutting...


 i was joking----------silly..........


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## sunfish (Jan 1, 2014)

showrguy said:


> i was joking----------silly..........


Well, with this thread it is hard to tell.


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## sunfish (Jan 1, 2014)

Eccentric said:


> If yer not careful you'll blow these out...



I hate it when that happens!!!


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## treesmith (Jan 2, 2014)

Eccentric said:


> If yer not careful you'll blow these out...


Hang on, where do I fit these?


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## Eccentric (Jan 2, 2014)

treesmith said:


> Hang on, where do I fit these?



Why in the muffler of course.


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## MCW (Jan 2, 2014)

Another thing for the OP to remember is that there is a difference between speed in a single cut and speed as far as production numbers go at the end of the day. For example where I am the timber I cut is generally pretty abrasive and gets pretty dusty. I mainly cut hardwood. I've done the numbers between .325" which cuts well and standard 3/8". For half an hour I'd be happy to use .325" but after 8 hours I will be well in front with 3/8" due to a lot less sharpenings. In a clean, green forest with smaller saws I'd be happy to run .325". If you have the slightest bit of dirt go 3/8". The good thing with the strato 261's is that they have bulk torque and actually perform more like an old school 65cc saw in the cut. They punch well above their weight for a 50cc saw. The only downside to stock 261's is their sluggish off idle throttle response which is why I got rid of mine and purchased a Husky 550XP. The filtration and the option of dual spikes on the 261 was way better than the 550. Most of my work in smaller trees now is done with an MS241C which leads me to another interesting point. In a single cut the 550XP will thump the 241C by 20-25%. By the end of the day however I have 10% more trees on the ground with the 241C simply due to fuel efficiency. Speed in a single cut means little by the end of the day as there are way more factors to consider.
If you are cutting downed logs with a bit of dirt on them with maybe the odd chance of digging the nose into the ground then go 3/8" (not 3/8"LP) for sure.


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## BKrusher (Jan 2, 2014)

What I meant by "over revving" was it had been posted on AS that .325 chain will not stay in the recommened rpm range or powerband while cutting with a modded 50cc saw...I'm not gonna go looking for the thread cause I could care less who's opinion it was...which got me thinking. So I asked a builder.... Now the OP question is will 3/8 be too hard on a stock 50cc....which is a legitamite question. My point bringing up my example is to try things out for yourself if you can. IMO the opinion of 3/8 being the only way to go is posted so many times on AS its ridiculous. There are many reasons to go 3/8 and I understand this, but know why you need 3/8 in the first place. Nothing wrong with good old .325 in many instances IMO.

I don't do production logging all I do is cut firewood which is a big difference. The OP sounds like a firewood guy too maybe I'm wrong idk.


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## wap13 (Jan 2, 2014)

MCW said:


> Another thing for the OP to remember is that there is a difference between speed in a single cut and speed as far as production numbers go at the end of the day. For example where I am the timber I cut is generally pretty abrasive and gets pretty dusty. I mainly cut hardwood. I've done the numbers between .325" which cuts well and standard 3/8". For half an hour I'd be happy to use .325" but after 8 hours I will be well in front with 3/8" due to a lot less sharpenings. In a clean, green forest with smaller saws I'd be happy to run .325". If you have the slightest bit of dirt go 3/8". The good thing with the strato 261's is that they have bulk torque and actually perform more like an old school 65cc saw in the cut. They punch well above their weight for a 50cc saw. The only downside to stock 261's is their sluggish off idle throttle response which is why I got rid of mine and purchased a Husky 550XP. The filtration and the option of dual spikes on the 261 was way better than the 550. Most of my work in smaller trees now is done with an MS241C which leads me to another interesting point. In a single cut the 550XP will thump the 241C by 20-25%. By the end of the day however I have 10% more trees on the ground with the 241C simply due to fuel efficiency. Speed in a single cut means little by the end of the day as there are way more factors to consider.
> If you are cutting downed logs with a bit of dirt on them with maybe the odd chance of digging the nose into the ground then go 3/8" (not 3/8"LP) for sure.



Is that 241 still stock?


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## MCW (Jan 2, 2014)

wap13 said:


> Is that 241 still stock?



Yeah still dead stock. Mastermind offered to mod it for me for free but at the time I needed it for the falling I was doing. Andrew (Stihlman441) had his modded by Randy instead. I've run that saw and it was a big improvement over stock but not sure if it would be any more efficient with certain jobs. Randy builds a good saw though and does tend to maintain a saw's efficiency compared to some other builders.


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## wap13 (Jan 2, 2014)

MCW said:


> Yeah still dead stock. Mastermind offered to mod it for me for free but at the time I needed it for the falling I was doing. Andrew (Stihlman441) had his modded by Randy instead. I've run that saw and it was a big improvement over stock but not sure if it would be any more efficient with certain jobs. Randy builds a good saw though and does tend to maintain a saw's efficiency compared to some other builders.



(continuing the derail..)

Did you run Andrew's enough to tell how a ported 241 compared to a stock 550 or 261?


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## MCW (Jan 2, 2014)

wap13 said:


> (continuing the derail..)
> 
> Did you run Andrew's enough to tell how a ported 241 compared to a stock 550 or 261?



Different saws for different jobs really. I doubt it would beat a 550 in a drag race or even a 261 but then again if you take into account the poor throttle response of a stock 261 it is probably a more user friendly saw. They are also considerably smaller than a 261 which is more like a baby hippo  If I was cutting firewood I'd go for a 261, if I was limbing etc then a modded 241 would be my pick. The 261 I had never had a wow factor, it just did everything boringly well. The 241 does have a wow factor. Keep in mind too that I often do trees in built up areas so a quiet, stock saw is nice to have in the arsenal. You don't make many friends cranking up a ported saw in suburbia


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## XSKIER (Jan 2, 2014)

Reminds me of that youtube video of the helmeted guy running a piped shindaiwa on an office building takedown. Sweet! I do appreciate a loud saw, but I've got no desire to own one.


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## sunfish (Jan 2, 2014)

MCW said:


> Different saws for different jobs really. I doubt it would beat a 550 in a drag race or even a 261 but then again if you take into account the poor throttle response of a stock 261 it is probably a more user friendly saw. They are also considerably smaller than a 261 which is more like a baby hippo  If I was cutting firewood I'd go for a 261, if I was limbing etc then a modded 241 would be my pick. *The 261 I had never had a wow factor, it just did everything boringly well. *The 241 does have a wow factor. Keep in mind too that I often do trees in built up areas so a quiet, stock saw is nice to have in the arsenal. You don't make many friends cranking up a ported saw in suburbia


That is the best description I've heard for that saw! Not pokin fun, or sayin it's a bad saw, or anything like that...

Very well said!


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## Philip Wheelock (Jan 2, 2014)

Philip Wheelock said:


> Local Stihl tech...recommended 20" and certainly no shorter than 18" for hardwood, for the reason that too short a bar and chain length wouldn't load the motor enough to keep it within the power band at WOT. Basically he was saying that the bottom end will last longer at 9500 rpm than 13000 rpm due to increased dynamic loads & heat...





MCW said:


> Local Stihl tech needs to learn how to adjust the chain to suit the wood or how to put more pressure on a saw. If a stock MS440 can pull 13,000 in the cut, well it ain't cutting.


Local Stihl tech has a gold level Stihl factory certification. I suppose his opinion is just more poor advice on AS? Basic question remains: will a 70cc class bottom end last longer at 9500 rpm or 13000 rpm; yes or no?


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## indiansprings (Jan 2, 2014)

We've got a chit pot full of 261's out with several firewood operations, including ours, the largest operation cuts in excess of a thousand cords and services the Table Rock area all the way to Branson, he runs a 460 and two MS261 set up with 18" 3/8 .063 set ups. This guy believes in fueling them,filling them with bar oil and running them, his help looks like they just left San Quentin, a rough bunch for sure. They have had no issues with their 261's. Our saw's are well maintained, one has been through two full seasons and has cut north of 200 cords, and no issues, in fact as a shop we have not had one issue with the 261's, I believe it is destined to be the new 028 of the Stihl line, built like a tank.
The only thing we watch for is they want to run 14,300 to 14,400 after being broke in, and we correct that when we do the free two gallon check up, just jerk the limiter with a drywall screw and dial them back to 13,850-13,900. Unless your just an idiot and file the rakers down to the bone or jerk the hell out of the saw when pinched I don't think you'll ever see a bearing issue under normal usage, given you using a top shelf mix. Stihl says the bearings are good to 20,000 rpm, and no that doesn't mean to go try and tune them to 20k.
A 261 is just fine with 3/8, personally we run ours with 18" .325 set ups, I have access to plenty of chain and plenty of time to sharpen them, we always go to the woods with 12 to 15 chains for each saw in the saw box. Just bought a 261CM to add to the two regulars, not running it though until it goes to Randy. I like working on clean saws and am sure he does too.


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## MCW (Jan 2, 2014)

Philip Wheelock said:


> Local Stihl tech has a gold level Stihl factory certification. I suppose his opinion is just more poor advice on AS? Basic question remains: will a 70cc class bottom end last longer at 9500 rpm or 13000 rpm; yes or no?



There is no doubt that a saw's bottom end will last longer at 9,500rpm instead of 13,000rpm. I agree on that.
Now ask local Stihl tech how many 70cc stock saws will pull 13,000rpm in he cut. If he thinks they can then he needs to spend less time being technical and more time being practical - (unless he can somehow fit a 12" micro picco bar to them with skip chain somehow?). That was my point but can understand the original question.
All a gold level Stihl factory certification means is that he is good at fixing saws. Ask him how many 70cc Stihl saw bottom ends he's had to replace from pulling 13,000rpm in the cut. In fact ask him to ask Stihl the same question. Stihl have a good network and generally put things online for dealers if there is a known issue. When he finds the Stihl technote that outlines the 70cc saw pulling 13,000rpm in the cut bottom end problems get him to give you a copy and post it here.
His explanation is like having a question saying "Will my Toyota Prius driveshafts fall out if I pull 400mph?". Yes they probably will, but a Prius can't go that fast.
I know you probably think I'm being an anal smartarse but for crying out loud, think about what he said and then ask yourself what rpm's a 70cc saw pulls in the cut. My ported and pop upped 7900 will max out at about 11,000rpm, even with an 18" bar and factory chain.
Stihl Techs are trained to tune saws with a tach so there is a good chance they don't know what rpm's a saw pulls in the cut. A Gold Tech should however.

Another interesting question for your Stihl Tech is this:

What causes more damage to a 70cc saws bottom end. Cutting at 9,500rpm with a load, or cutting at 13,000rpm without a load? As mentioned if you can "cut" at 13,000rpm you have no load. I'm pretty sure your Stihl Tech said 13,000rpm for extra dramatic effect in his answer, I highly doubt he believes it.


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## wap13 (Jan 2, 2014)

MCW said:


> Different saws for different jobs really. I doubt it would beat a 550 in a drag race or even a 261 but then again if you take into account the poor throttle response of a stock 261 it is probably a more user friendly saw. They are also considerably smaller than a 261 which is more like a baby hippo  If I was cutting firewood I'd go for a 261, if I was limbing etc then a modded 241 would be my pick. The 261 I had never had a wow factor, it just did everything boringly well. The 241 does have a wow factor. Keep in mind too that I often do trees in built up areas so a quiet, stock saw is nice to have in the arsenal. You don't make many friends cranking up a ported saw in suburbia



Thanks for the info, thought of trying one out when they get to the sates but not sure if I really have a use for one.


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## Philip Wheelock (Jan 2, 2014)

Philip Wheelock said:


> Local Stihl tech has a gold level Stihl factory certification... Basic question remains: will a 70cc class bottom end last longer at 9500 rpm or 13000 rpm...?





MCW said:


> There is no doubt that a saw's bottom end will last longer at 9,500rpm instead of 13,000rpm...
> Now ask local Stihl tech how many 70cc stock saws will pull 13,000rpm in he cut. If he thinks they can then he needs to spend less time being technical and more time being practical... Another interesting question for your Stihl Tech is this:
> What causes more damage to a 70cc saws bottom end. Cutting at 9,500rpm with a load, or cutting at 13,000rpm without a load? As mentioned if you can "cut" at 13,000rpm you have no load. I'm pretty sure your Stihl Tech said 13,000rpm for extra dramatic effect in his answer, I highly doubt he believes it.


If 13K rpm is skewing the discussion, let's chalk it up to dramatic effect and just look at WOT revving above the power band due to inadequate load. This would occur with a poorly sharpened & adjusted chain. But it also would occur when limbing small pine and brush at full throttle, which is what I heard one crew doing this summer while they were clearing the power line easement that runs through our property with saws screaming. For me, once wood gets below a certain diameter (12-16" depending on pine, maple, cherry, oak), I can't put enough load on a 440 to keep it in the power band at WOT and end up blipping the throttle. Time for a smaller saw.
The tech said specifically that running at 9500 rpm under load is fine, but running 13000 rpm w/o load is like flooring the accelerator in a car with the transmission in neutral. ... which is exactly how I spun a con rod bearing on a '68 Buick V8 back in the day.
Agree that properly sharpened & adjusted chains make all the difference.


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## indiansprings (Jan 2, 2014)

MCW said:


> There is no doubt that a saw's bottom end will last longer at 9,500rpm instead of 13,000rpm. I agree on that.
> Now ask local Stihl tech how many 70cc stock saws will pull 13,000rpm in he cut. If he thinks they can then he needs to spend less time being technical and more time being practical - (unless he can somehow fit a 12" micro picco bar to them with skip chain somehow?). That was my point but can understand the original question.
> All a gold level Stihl factory certification means is that he is good at fixing saws. Ask him how many 70cc Stihl saw bottom ends he's had to replace from pulling 13,000rpm in the cut. In fact ask him to ask Stihl the same question. Stihl have a good network and generally put things online for dealers if there is a known issue. When he finds the Stihl technote that outlines the 70cc saw pulling 13,000rpm in the cut bottom end problems get him to give you a copy and post it here.
> His explanation is like having a question saying "Will my Toyota Prius driveshafts fall out if I pull 400mph?". Yes they probably will, but a Prius can't go that fast.
> ...






Excellent reply......the masterwrench/gold cert just means he has spent a week in class and are prolly good at the run of the mill repairs,high emphasis on carbs/fuel related issues and engine failure analysis and product liability.
We just don't see issues with the bottom ends, I have seen one main let loose in a year and a half, the only saws we see that have loud main noise is 660's that have four or five years on them in daily logging operations, around here most never see a bar longer than 25". Imho it is much harder on a saw not running it wot in the cut, they are designed to run wot, which in most cases will translate to around 9500 rpm in the cut. I doubt if many on the site will ever run a saw enough to be concerned about the mains. Our 361 has seen at least 750-1000 cords of oak and hickory and I would hate to guess the hours and gallons of fuel run through it. The cylinder/piston looks like new and the bottom end is quite, it's been run on 40:1 and 91oct no ethanol and the air filter is cleaned after everytime it is used. The boys cut/delivered 6 cord today. The last thing I worry about is bottom ends, damage is usually due to dirt/sawdust getting by a clogged filter or poor lubrication not wear and tear.


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## fishinfiend (Jan 2, 2014)

What would be your recommendation for what I would be cutting? It is mainly ash, elm, maple, poplar, and some birch. Also the saw will be used for firewood.


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## XSKIER (Jan 2, 2014)

fishinfiend said:


> What would be your recommendation for what I would be cutting? It is mainly ash, elm, maple, poplar, and some birch. Also the saw will be used for firewood.



Ash: .325 .063 RS
Elm: .325 .050 RM
Maple: 3/8 .063 RM
Poplar: 3/8 .050 RS
Birch: 3/8 .063 RS

all on 20" blade or less, for firewood only. For pulp wood use .3/8P .050 PS on a 25" blade.


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## fishinfiend (Jan 2, 2014)

XSKIER said:


> Ash: .325 .063 RS
> Elm: .325 .050 RM
> Maple: 3/8 .063 RM
> Poplar: 3/8 .050 RS
> ...



May I ask why chisel for some and semi chisel for others?


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## XSKIER (Jan 2, 2014)

Sure, 
wood density, grain pattern, knot frequency, moisture content, abrasives retention in he bark, and personal preference. On a small saw the easiest force multiplier is the absolute best chain for the type of wood you're in.


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## MCW (Jan 3, 2014)

Philip Wheelock said:


> If 13K rpm is skewing the discussion, let's chalk it up to dramatic effect and just look at WOT revving above the power band due to inadequate load. This would occur with a poorly sharpened & adjusted chain. But it also would occur when limbing small pine and brush at full throttle, which is what I heard one crew doing this summer while they were clearing the power line easement that runs through our property with saws screaming. For me, once wood gets below a certain diameter (12-16" depending on pine, maple, cherry, oak), I can't put enough load on a 440 to keep it in the power band at WOT and end up blipping the throttle. Time for a smaller saw.
> The tech said specifically that running at 9500 rpm under load is fine, but running 13000 rpm w/o load is like flooring the accelerator in a car with the transmission in neutral. ... which is exactly how I spun a con rod bearing on a '68 Buick V8 back in the day.
> Agree that properly sharpened & adjusted chains make all the difference.



Revving the crap out of saws with no load actually makes me cringe  If your tech said it like that then he is correct, there is no need to hold a saw WOT. I have heard meathead fruit tree pruners in the past holding 192T's/200T's flat between cuts. You wonder what sort of drugs they were on (actually in all honesty they were as high as kites!). At least I knew why the same contract pruning team went to MS170's a year or so later. The owner was sick of them wrecking $1000 saws from straight gassing them every week.
It reminds me of a video I done a few years ago with a Chinese 038 copy. I wanted to blow it up on camera for a laugh. I posted it on AS. I taped the trigger wide open, leaned it out as far as it would go, no bar and chain, tach was reading 16,000rpm, started the video and sat back waiting for the fireworks. That bloody thing went a whole tank and didn't let go screaming it's tits off. I ended up giving it to a mate with a chainsaw business. He sold it to one of his "professional" firewood cutters for $100 and that darn saw is still running fine about 3 years later with a knuckle dragger owner...


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## sunfish (Jan 3, 2014)

XSKIER said:


> Ash: .325 .063 RS
> Elm: .325 .050 RM
> Maple: 3/8 .063 RM
> Poplar: 3/8 .050 RS
> ...


Blade? 

I thought you were a little more experienced than that.


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## blsnelling (Jan 3, 2014)

The idea that .325 doesn't put enough load on ANY size saw is simply ridiculous. Equally ridiculous is the idea that 3/8 would hurt a 261. The fact of the matter is that .325 actually puts more cutters in the wood. It would be no challenge at all to stall an 880 with .325 chain.

Rant off


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## moody (Jan 3, 2014)

XSKIER said:


> Ash: .325 .063 RS
> Elm: .325 .050 RM
> Maple: 3/8 .063 RM
> Poplar: 3/8 .050 RS
> ...



Since when did they start putting Stihl RS on blades?


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 3, 2014)

RS=Real Sharp......like a Silky


Sent from my AutoTune carb


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## Hedgerow (Jan 3, 2014)

blsnelling said:


> The idea that .325 doesn't put enough load on ANY size saw is simply ridiculous. Equally ridiculous is the idea that 3/8 would hurt a 261. The fact of the matter is that .325 actually puts more cutters in the wood. It would be no challenge at all to stall an 880 with .325 chain.
> 
> Rant off



Pfffttt... I can stall an 880 with a wet noodle... 

Different bars and chains all mixed up for the same saw is insanity...
I run 3/8 on EVERYTHING... All woods... Elm to Hedge...
Keeps things simpler that way...
You can sharpen a chain to make it do whatever you want...
Smooth as silk, or ditch witch grabby...

But if someone wants to roll with .325, they can do all the same things and woods...
No problem.
Basically, what do you want? Or feel like using? Or what is most readily available?


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## fishinfiend (Jan 3, 2014)

I talked to my stihl dealer tonight again and he showed me what was the bearing and it was the bearing on the clutch not on the motor. Either way I ordered it. I would have had it tonight but he did not have the chain drive sprocket so I should have it middle of next week. Also thoughts green vs yellow chain, I have yellow coming.


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## DavdH (Jan 3, 2014)

Use the same chain on all you're saws, makes life so much less complicated. I do use .404 on the big saw but it gets a new chain every few years, I get 3/8 by the roll. lots of my guys use 3/8 on the very same saw, i just like the bigger sawkerf so I can see it move, before it closes on me.


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## DavdH (Jan 3, 2014)

z


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## MCW (Jan 5, 2014)

DavdH said:


> Use the same chain on all you're saws, makes life so much less complicated.



Bit hard when you have a Husky 3120 *and* a Stihl 200T


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## KG441c (Jan 9, 2014)

MCW said:


> You'll find the indents for where to drill holes under the nylon chain guides in the clutch cover. Just pop the two nylon guides out with a screwdriver and you'll see where to drill. Very easy to do. From memory it is either the MS361 or MS362 dual spikes that will fit the
> 261. All you will need is longer bolts.


The magnum spikes 0506 for inner casing and 0509 for clutch cover will fit the 261 with slight modifications


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## Stihlman441 (Jan 9, 2014)

wap13 said:


> (continuing the derail..)
> 
> Did you run Andrew's enough to tell how a ported 241 compared to a stock 550 or 261?


 
This may help.
Ported 241C with a 16' .325 .063 chain
Stock 261 with muff modd 18' bar 3/8 .063 chain

For me the 241C can do what the 261 does with much less weight,very easy to start cold or hot (when working out of a bucket trimming this helps) and for felling smaller trees is a joy to use all day.
My 261 doesnt get much use these days.


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## MCW (Jan 9, 2014)

KG441c said:


> The magnum spikes 0506 for inner casing and 0509 for clutch cover will fit the 261 with slight modifications



What saw model do they originally fit? The MS361 (or MS362?) dual spike kits are a straight bolt on. They work really well too. These photos are from a few years ago now and the 261 had only just hit the US market a few weeks prior.


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## Stihlman441 (Jan 9, 2014)

Thats the ones Matt, if i recall can get in a kit,roller chain catcher and is for 361,362.


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## KG441c (Jan 9, 2014)

Ya thats 361/362 kit #7750. Much smaller spikes than 0506, 0509. The magnum spikes originally fit the 441. A Little work at the bottom of 0506 and 2 holes drilled foward of original holes of 0509 and the magnum spikes will fit the 261


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## MCW (Jan 9, 2014)

At least the spikes you've fitted aren't as crazy as some of the ones I've seen on here. Stihl spikes always seem to bite at different angles in funny shaped trunks, unlike some others. Stock MS660 spikes are some of the most functional spikes in the market.


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## treesmith (Jan 9, 2014)

MCW said:


> Revving the crap out of saws with no load actually makes me cringe  I have heard meathead fruit tree pruners in the past holding 192T's/200T's flat between cuts


I had the misfortune of watching a Balinese type tree gang clear a development plot last month, bobcat, trailer and just two saws, 201t for up top and a new 460(?) for all ground work. The groundie obviously thought the throttle trigger was part of the handle and on <4" brush. I've never heard a saw scream so much and it sounded lean anyway. From what I saw he was the brains of the outfit too. Made my ears clench


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## XSKIER (Jan 9, 2014)

I really like that the MS 341 dog set (stück) has the rounded bottom points. I find that it moves through a bucking cut much smoother than the better looking magnum dogs. How come no one is using the roller chain catcher? Either way those are some fine running, great looking, and superior quality saws you guys have!


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## KG441c (Jan 9, 2014)

I have the chain roller on my 441c and a Sugihara 25" bar on the way and also ordered the roller for the magnum 261 spikes. The next step for my 261 is off to Mr Snelling for a stage one


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## MCW (Jan 9, 2014)

XSKIER said:


> How come no one is using the roller chain catcher?



The 261 in my pictures has the roller chain catcher fitted. It's just a bit hard to see.


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## XSKIER (Jan 9, 2014)

MCW said:


> The 261 in my pictures has the roller chain catcher fitted. It's just a bit hard to see.



Oh now I see. You've got in on backwards, and it doesn't project nearly enough through the outer dog to provide adequate protection from a violent chain derailment. But at least it's on there


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## MCW (Jan 9, 2014)

XSKIER said:


> Oh now I see. You've got in on backwards, and it doesn't project nearly enough through the outer dog to provide adequate protection from a violent chain derailment. But at least it's on there



That is one problem with the 261 and the 361/362 kit as the actual width of the 261 clutch cover etc looks to be a bit wider than the 361/362. I got told a few years ago when I posted these photos that I'd put the roller on backwards  You've reopened my mental wounds from that time! The roller pin did actually grab the outer spike though and the Stihl setup is pretty tough. I threw a heap of chains on the 261 and worked out quickly that they are a great setup.


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## KG441c (Jan 9, 2014)

The clutch cover will require longer bolts but the stock casing bolts work


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## windthrown (Jan 10, 2014)

I had a heap of 026/260 saws once and they came with a mix of .325 and 3/8 B&C. I was using both but is was a pain to sharpen different loop sizes and I preferred running 3/8 standard chain. I did a bunch of tests cutting fir cookies with full chisel 16 and 18 inch bars in both .325 and 3/8, and for my cutting it was a dead heat. Same kerf, same cutting time. I ran all my larger saws at that time with 3/8 (still do), so I sold off all the .325 B&C and have been running 3/8 on my 026/260 saws ever since. It made my life simpler. Well... except I have a one large mount Picco bar and I run on one 026 with low profile for faster cutting. Picco runs really good/fast on an 026. They are selling 261 saws in Germany with that same Picco setup now. I run Picco on my 211 saw as well. I had a mix of .325 and Picco-3/8LP on my 025/250 saws before I swapped them out for 026/260 saws, and I flipped them all to Picco for faster cutting.

Its all 3/8 for me...


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## fishinfiend (Jan 10, 2014)

I picked my 261 up earlier this week with an 18" 3/8 b/c. Yesterday I took it out to the woods and boy it seemed to have no power at all. It seemed to me that when it was in a cut that the saw would stall if I let the saw do the work. In other words I has to hold back the saw in order for it not to get stopped. Is that normal until I get through the break in period?


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## moody (Jan 10, 2014)

That's not normal for a 261. Are you heavy handed?

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## fishinfiend (Jan 10, 2014)

I don't think I am, it just seems that the saw pulls itself into a too big of a cut.


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## XSKIER (Jan 10, 2014)

XSKIER said:


> ... no one will ever agree on which drive pitch is best for the MS 261 C-M, so you might as well try .404 and let the rest of us know.
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/index.php?threads/238484/





fishinfiend said:


> I picked my 261 up earlier this week with an 18" 3/8 b/c. Yesterday I took it out to the woods and boy it seemed to have no power at all. It seemed to me that when it was in a cut that the saw would stall if I let the saw do the work. In other words I has to hold back the saw in order for it not to get stopped. Is that normal until I get through the break in period?



Did you get the narrow kerf .050 3/8 chain? You might try a loop of .404 .063 fool chisel. It sure cuts nice on my 42 cc 08, and, it is way easier to sharpen than .325 .063 that the MS 261 C-M should have came with.


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## fishinfiend (Jan 10, 2014)

Yes I am running 050 3/8 chain. No I am not planing on changing my bar and chain anytime soon unless if I wreck it. I was thinking about shoving the bar into the ground and dulling it up a little bit. 

Just kidding about saw in dirt.


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## sunfish (Jan 10, 2014)

Ski dude has lost it, gone off the deep in!

Give the saw some time to break in, it'll get stronger.

...


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## Philip Wheelock (Jan 10, 2014)

fishinfiend said:


> I picked my 261 up earlier this week with an 18" 3/8 b/c. Yesterday I took it out to the woods and boy it seemed to have no power at all...


Several things that might explain this: 1. New saws will often go through 5-8 gals of fuel mix before making full power; 2. Dealer tuned the saw a few hundred rpm below specs on the high end for break-in purposes; 3. 18" b/c w/.375" pitch _buried_ might be a bit much for any new stock 50cc saw; a ported 261 is a different animal altogether.


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## DonnerParty (Jan 10, 2014)

fishinfiend said:


> I picked my 261 up earlier this week with an 18" 3/8 b/c. Yesterday I took it out to the woods and boy it seemed to have no power at all. It seemed to me that when it was in a cut that the saw would stall if I let the saw do the work. In other words I has to hold back the saw in order for it not to get stopped. Is that normal until I get through the break in period?



My 261 C-M picked up a lot after the first few tanks. I am running 18" .325 .063 and the saw has plenty of power. It really rips. 

Run a few tanks through it. If you are still having an issue, take it back to the dealer and have them look it over.


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## mopar3 (Jan 10, 2014)

If the saw is tuned too lean it will lack torque. They come set really lean from the factory. If your dealer did not retune for your weather altitude ect at set up your saw could be weak.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KG441c (Jan 10, 2014)

What is topend rpm that everyone likes to set at vs max rpm?


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## Philip Wheelock (Jan 10, 2014)

KG441c said:


> What is topend rpm that everyone likes to set at vs max rpm?


Dealer tuned my MS261 to 13,750 rpm for break-in (vs. 14,000 rpm max. specified)


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## mopar3 (Jan 10, 2014)

Fishfiend did you get a 261 cm with m tronic or just a regular 261 with the standard carb?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fishinfiend (Jan 10, 2014)

I have it with the m-tronic and I now have about a tank and a half through it and it seems already like a completely different saw than when I just tried it out yesterday.


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## fishinfiend (Jan 10, 2014)

Here is picture of the saw.


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## windthrown (Jan 10, 2014)

fishinfiend said:


> I have it with the m-tronic and I now have about a tank and a half through it and it seems already like a completely different saw than when I just tried it out yesterday.


 

Several things about what some others have posted here... one, there is no 3/8 std. narrow kerf from Stihl. There is 3/8 LP/Picco narrow kerf, but that stuff is so small it only comes on the 170/171 and 180/181 saws. Stihl does not sell large mount saws in the US with 3/8 LP/Picco B&C. They sold that for a few months on some 024 saws many years ago, but stopped. Supposedly the 16 inch large mount Picco bar is available by ordering through east coast Stihl dealers, but... I have yet to hear anyone actually order one through them and get it. You can get that setup in the EU though. Stihl does not make a .325 NK bars or loops either, but some others do (like Cannon/Carlton). I do not know what these guys are talking about .404 on a 261 for...  that is for large saws like the 660 and 880.

Another thing is that when saws are new they do not have full power. It takes about 10 tanks of gas to seat the rings in and gain full compression and thus full power. You do not need to throttle back on the saw to break it in. Just avoid running WOT out of the wood. Also with an M-tronic saw, the computer takes some time running to get the saw dialed in right. Once that happens, cutting should improve (as you seem to have found out). The computer chip will store the data from the last cutting session in memory so it does not have to re-calibrate the next time you use the saw.

The 261 has quite a bit more rated power than a 026, so you should have no problem pulling an 18 inch 3/8 standard B&C. Also the chain type will make a difference. If you are running factory safety (green) chain that typically comes from the dealer on saws, they are slower than non-safety (yellow) chain. Add to that semi-chisel will cut about 10% slower than full chisel, and a lot of dealers sell new saws with semi-chisel safety chain on them. Factory Stihl chains should be razor sharp, so the chain being dull should not be an issue unless you rocked it. If you do not have it, get a loop made of RSC non-safety full chisel Stihl chain, and use it for cutting in clean wood. Full chisel will cut faster, but also dull a lot faster in crud. Use semi-chisel loops for cutting in crud and out in the woods, as it will stay sharp a lot longer. Run the safety loops where you may rock a chain, or if there may be nails in the wood (like cutting yard trees).


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## Stihlman441 (Jan 10, 2014)

This is well known that the standard carb 261s like to run a little fat 13700 13800 rpm.


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## fishinfiend (Jan 10, 2014)

Thanks for the info windthrow. I believe I have a rsk on the saw and another in the box cause my slip says that the extra chain is an rsk and I told my dealer that I wanted both non safety yellow chains. Also I was kidding about the shoving the saw into the dirt cause I don't want to sharpen the saw any sooner than I have to.


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## windthrown (Jan 10, 2014)

Stihlman441 said:


> This is well known that the standard carb 261s like to run a little fat 13700 13800 rpm.


 
Most newer standard carb Stihl saws do, but you have to pull the limiter tabs to fatten them up. Generally the maxed out EPA setting is about 1/8 a turn too lean. On an M-tronic saw there is no carb adjustment though. No little orange screwdriver needed.


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## fishinfiend (Jan 10, 2014)

Thanks for the compliment.


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## MCW (Jan 10, 2014)

I haven't run the 261C's much but out of the box they seem a way better saw than the carby 261. Sluggish throttle response was the biggest issue I found with the stock 261's but the M-Tronic version was way more snappy. Not 550XP snappy but pretty good.


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## windthrown (Jan 10, 2014)

550XP snappy... that has to be some kind of Aussie treat, like bikkies or Vegemite.


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## MCW (Jan 10, 2014)

windthrown said:


> 550XP snappy... that has to be some kind of Aussie treat, like bikkies or Vegemite.



I thought snappy could be understood at an international level  My bad...


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## windthrown (Jan 11, 2014)

MCW said:


> I thought snappy could be understood at an international level  My bad...


 
No, snappy is what you meant it to be here stateside. Snappy, zippy or quick... its just that you guys have all kinds of colorful terms for stuff that does not mean anything here. Though snaps are a type of cookie back east in the likes of PA.


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## MCW (Jan 11, 2014)

windthrown said:


> No, snappy is what you meant it to be here stateside. Snappy, zippy or quick... its just that you guys have all kinds of colorful terms for stuff that does not mean anything here.



Phew. I thought that snappy may have meant it breaks easily


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## fishinfiend (Jan 11, 2014)

MCW said:


> Phew. I thought that snappy may have meant it breaks easily



No, something that breaks easily is called junkie.


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## fishinfiend (Jan 13, 2014)

I took the saw out for a little bit this past weekend and as I was running it I could tell it was gaining power as I used it. At first it was pretty easy to stall out the saw now it has to be force feed a little bit in order to get the chain to stop. Now remember I only have about 1.5 to 2 tanks of fuel threw it so far. It seems like it will be a pretty powerful saw when it is broke in.

Also my dad is complaining a little bit of his ms362 does not have much power. I would say he has maybe 5 tanks threw it so far. His ms362 is a std. carb model, with the adjustment screws.


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## DonnerParty (Jan 13, 2014)

Just starting to break in at 5 tanks. Have you put a tach on it? I would tune it just a bit below spec, then run 10 more tanks through it, at least, then re-tune to spec.


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## XSKIER (Jan 13, 2014)

Good one!


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## fishinfiend (Jan 13, 2014)

What do you do? Do you take off the chain and bar and put a tach on the end of the clutch and runner wide open? How do you adjust rpms with a m-tronic carb (no high low screws on side of saw)? Are you talking about my ms261 or are you talking about my dads ms362?


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## Stihlman441 (Jan 14, 2014)

DonnerParty said:


> Just starting to break in at 5 tanks. Have you put a tach on it? I would tune it just a bit below spec, then run 10 more tanks through it, at least, then re-tune to spec.


 
I think you will find the 261 will run better a little rich from spec,try it.


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## DonnerParty (Jan 14, 2014)

Talking about the 362. Your 261 C-M does not have a carb adjustment.


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## SawTroll (Jan 14, 2014)

Who cares anyway, the MS261 is too large, heavy and clumcy for a 50cc saw, but that is still what it is! 

Each to his own though.....


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## moody (Jan 17, 2014)

Guys it's a CM it tunes itself.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## DonnerParty (Jan 17, 2014)

moody said:


> Guys it's a CM it tunes itself.



He also asked about his dad's 362, which does have an adjustable carb:



fishinfiend said:


> Also my dad is complaining a little bit of his ms362 does not have much power. I would say he has maybe 5 tanks threw it so far. His ms362 is a std. carb model, with the adjustment screws.


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## moody (Jan 17, 2014)

Well in the case of the 362 tune it a little fat and be patient. They take a good 15 tanks to break in.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## BangBang77 (Mar 29, 2018)

Sorry to drag up an old thread for my first post but this is the only existing thread I came across that covers some of my questions.

I just picked up a MS261cm to replace my tired 026 Pro. I ran .375 (3/8) chain and the Rollomatic E Super 18" bar on my 026 and want to convert my 261 to 3/8. I picked up a E Super 18" bar and some loops of 36RM366 chain. I am trying to get the correct sprocket for the 3/8 and all the local dealers in my AO (4 to be exact) look at me like I've been smoking the devils lettuce.

What is the correct sprocket part number and where can I order it online?

I think this will work but need confirmation as some sites list it as a .325 sprocket- 1121 640 2003.

???????


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## concretegrazer (Mar 29, 2018)

BangBang77 said:


> Sorry to drag up an old thread for my first post but this is the only existing thread I came across that covers some of my questions.
> 
> I just picked up a MS261cm to replace my tired 026 Pro. I ran .375 (3/8) chain and the Rollomatic E Super 18" bar on my 026 and want to convert my 261 to 3/8. I picked up a E Super 18" bar and some loops of 36RM366 chain. I am trying to get the correct sprocket for the 3/8 and all the local dealers in my AO (4 to be exact) look at me like I've been smoking the devils lettuce.
> 
> ...





https://www.ebay.com/p/1-OEM-STIHL-...et-3-8-7-7t-0000-642-1231-Ms7-Mini/1201643900


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## BangBang77 (Mar 29, 2018)

concretegrazer said:


> https://www.ebay.com/p/1-OEM-STIHL-...et-3-8-7-7t-0000-642-1231-Ms7-Mini/1201643900


Outstanding concretegrazer!!!

Thank you very much.


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