# Prognosis of Hen of the Woods infection



## ADDA (Feb 16, 2007)

Hi Folks

I can't find this information anywhere on the web or in any of my books. My question is:

From the first appearance of a fruiting body of _Grifola Frondosa_(Hen of the Woods), how long will it take for the tree to become so unsafe it must be removed? I have a 300ish year old Oak tree to worry about that has had the fungus for over ten years but still has a full crown and virtually no die back.

The tree was drilled ten years ago and was fine. I have insisted to the owner that further decay detection is used as the tree is protected by Tree Preservation Order but I would like to know a bit more about it as I've not come across it before in a garden situation.

Any help would be appreciated.


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## treeseer (Feb 16, 2007)

The books Wood Decay Fungi (from the NE USA) and Fungal Strategies (from Germany) both say it is very slow to progress. I would not drill, but sound for decay.

I have a client who loves the fungus for its ornamental value as much as she loves the enormous oak it's on.

Have you gone on the UKTC listserv? You will hear more local experience there, though many posters are a bit mycophobic imo.


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## ADDA (Feb 19, 2007)

Many thanks. It's s difficult one because if the tree did come down, it would totally demolish the family home.


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## treeseer (Feb 20, 2007)

are you familiar with Quantified Tree Risk Analysis, QTRA?

Many fine homes are near fine trees. Rating the target is typically done after rating the risk of failure.


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## ADDA (Feb 21, 2007)

Yeah, thanks. I have to say, if it was down to QTRA the tree would already be down (probably). The owner wants to keep the tree as long as possible but is obviously worried after seeing the fungus appear for the last ten years. I'm hoping that the Consultant will just advise a reduction and thinning to lessen the sail area. The tree obviously has a pretty good immune system on the go!


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## Thetreewisemen (Feb 21, 2007)

Hey ADDA, where in Surrey are you? You mentioned that the oak in question was 'drilled' a number of years ago, was that done with a Resistograph?


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## ADDA (Feb 21, 2007)

Hey Treewisemen, I'm sure I've come across a Tree Surgery firm with the same signature as yourself. I'm in Tandridge district, just next to junction 6 of M25.

The drill used was a Sibert Decay Drill DDD200, so a variety of resistograph definitely. I can't find any studies at all regarding Grifola. All I can find is articles on how good they are to eat and their tumour reducing properties! I've been in the business for 12 years, which I know isn't a hell of a long time but I know how just about every other decay fungus acts over time. This is beginning to be quite frustrating. I'd have given up and left it to someone else to work out but I've got a dog with a bone thing going on now.

What took you to the States? I've always fancied climbing a big Redwood (one of your 100m jobs) but i've hung up the ropes professionally at the mo, so I just get to look up these days.


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## Thetreewisemen (Feb 21, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that I'm not alone in calling my company 'The Tree Wise Men'. I'm from Surrey originally, my parents still live just around the corner from Epsom Downs. A job offer brought me here in the first place, and after putting in my time with the larger companies, I set up on my own. I also hung up the rope and harness recently after 16 or so years off the ground. I used to know your area resonably well, I seem to remember! Good luck with the 'bone', so to say...... I've been to the Redwoods, and at some point WILL get back there to climb one............talk about mind blowing when you first look up at one!!


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## treeseer (Feb 21, 2007)

ADDA said:


> I can't find any studies at all regarding Grifola.


Schwarze cites several in Fungal Strategies of Wood Decay in Trees.

It seems to be a slow rotter.


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## ADDA (Feb 26, 2007)

Thanks for that. Went on Amazon and was delivered on weekend. Superb book. The trouble is my girlfriend has expressed deep concern with my increasing interest in tree fungi. She didn't radiate the same excitement as me when I read her passages from the book at 9 am on saturday morning. I wonder why???!!!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 26, 2007)

ADDA said:


> The trouble is my girlfriend has expressed deep concern with my increasing interest in tree fungi.



Fry up some of that miatake for her, saute with onions, butter and port. ( I like EV Olive oil personally, being dairy intoerant).



> It seems to be a slow rotter.



My understanding is that it is lignofagic, and these are the slower moving fungi


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## treeseer (Feb 28, 2007)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> My understanding is that it is lignofagic, and these are the slower moving fungi


Going Greek on us eh Sanborn/ lignophagic--eating xylem, leaving cellulose. Same as Ganoderma then, a soft rotter. Here's a future conversation about Ganoderma:

"my book Wood Decay Fungi says Ganoderma is “moderately fast progressing”, so is it a good idea to keep the tree?”

“Well, AC, my book Fungal Strategies of Wood Decay in Trees says Ganoderma “can be classed as ‘harmless’, at least for a certain period…Trees with a soft kind of decay do not fall suddenly and without any warning signals” I read from page 124. “Arboriculture can mitigate the risk. If the roots are revitalized, codit may surround the infection” 
****
"The trouble is my girlfriend has expressed deep concern with my increasing interest in tree fungi. She didn't radiate the same excitement as me when I read her passages from the book at 9 am on saturday morning. I wonder why???!!!"

All depends on what happened Friday night...Try dressing up special and doing a mushroom dance while you read. That me be effective foreplay, ya never know...Your enthusiasm is bound to spread. Glad you like the book. Here's a review of it from the arb journal 2001.


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## ADDA (Feb 28, 2007)

> All depends on what happened Friday night...Try dressing up special and doing a mushroom dance while you read. That me be effective foreplay, ya never know...Your enthusiasm is bound to spread. Glad you like the book. Here's a review of it from the arb journal 2001.



LOL I'm afraid my mushroom dancing days are over. I passed that stage along with Techno music and day glow clothing. I discoverd, very nearly to my cost, that climbing trees with a chainsaw the day after I'd performed a 'mushroom dance' was a sure fire way to shorten my career considerably. I'll stick to reading about them and eating them I reckon.


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## Thetreewisemen (Feb 28, 2007)

You guys are killing me!! LOL


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 28, 2007)

Guy, it would be easier to read your posts if you used the code for quotes. Just click the little buble icon




then type or paste inbetween the bracketed code.


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## treeseer (Feb 28, 2007)

I still don't understand how to get 2 different quotes in the same post. Someday...


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## Ed Roland (Mar 17, 2007)

ADDA, Just curious how an Englishman comes by the word "reckon."
and Treeseer, ditto.


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## ADDA (Mar 22, 2007)

woodweasel said:


> ADDA, Just curious how an Englishman comes by the word "reckon."
> and Treeseer, ditto.



Now, I don't want to state the obvious but....... it's in the ENGLISH dictionary. One of the definitions would be to "consider as being". LOL


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## Ed Roland (Mar 22, 2007)

English? Im 4rom the deep south. What we speak can hardly be called english.
U can tell a client they have tip blight on their Pinus but u might get punched in the nose.


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## Pilze (Apr 4, 2007)

Grifola is a saprophytic mushroom, ie it grows off of dead wood. In actually it is eating the dead roots of your tree and preventing a parasitic fungi from gaining a foothold. I wouldn't worry about the "infection" as it is actually anti-pathogenic.


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## treeseer (Apr 13, 2007)

Pilze said:


> Grifola is a saprophytic mushroom, ie it grows off of dead wood. In actually it is eating the dead roots of your tree and preventing a parasitic fungi from gaining a foothold. I wouldn't worry about the "infection" as it is actually anti-pathogenic.


Where did you hear/read that?

O and "reckon" is commonspeak here in the se usa.


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## Pilze (Apr 14, 2007)

http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/nov2006.html

The long and short of it is that the tree *is* dying, however; the fungus is maximizing its lifespan by preventing a parasitic infection.


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## treeseer (Apr 14, 2007)

Pilze said:


> http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/nov2006.html
> 
> The long and short of it is that the tree *is* dying, however; the fungus is maximizing its lifespan by preventing a parasitic infection.



"there is a dark side to all this: Grifola is a parasite of the oak tree, getting its nutrients from the roots. Fortunately it is a "good" parasite, not killing its food source but keeping it alive as long as possible in order to maximize its own life. Unfortunately, most of the time the host tree eventually dies, probably from a combination of the Grifola infection and environmental stresses such as drought and wind."

Pilze, 
Tom Volk and/or his grad student say it is a parasitic infection. I do not know what they mean about it not killing its food source--are they saying it does not decay the wood? Hmm. Doesn't that mean that it is mutualist or commensalist instead of parasitic? Hmm.


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## Pilze (Apr 15, 2007)

It doesn't attack the healthy roots, but it decays the damaged or dying roots. Grifola would take over the immune responsibilities in these dying parts and prevent something parasitic from gaining a foothold. An obligate parasitic fungus like honey mushroom would attack the weakened immune system in these locales and then move on to the healthy wood and kill the tree. 

Even though the roots are damaged or dying they are still holding the tree in the ground, so long as they are still connected to the buttress of the tree. After they are softened and decayed, the trees motion in the wind or simply gravity could break them off and it would lose one of its "legs" that it stands on.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 17, 2007)

So it is an efficient parasite.

I had first heard/read or something that it was a saprophyte, feeding on the dead roots. I was told at another occasion that that strategy could not account for the huge fruiting bodies, and you do not want to try to inoculate good trees with it, as you would with truffles.

Could it be that it is a symbiont that becomes opportunistic


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