# Spooked.......does it go away?



## fastbub (Oct 7, 2006)

Hey guys and gals,
I am just getting back into the business in the past few months after injuries sustained from a fall. I feel fortunate to still be in one piece. I have been doing some sidework for friends and family to shake out the cobwebs and today I did the biggest removal so far since my fall. It was an ash split at the base into two leads right on the bank of a creek. One was a mojor leaner. Lots of trees around but no real other obstacles. I had a man on the ground pull some stuff over, but no lowering was necessary. I had to piece it out a bit to avoid damaging surrounding trees. I was up about 60-70 feet blowing out the top on the leaner and it went smoothly with a little bit of a ride, the other side was a little hairier as the wind was blowing and even with my tagline high in the top I was still scared it was going to sit back on me. It went fine too though. Right on target. The problem was I had no confidence. Like NONE! I felt like the tree was going to topple over when I spiked up it. My heart was racing at times and it took me a long time to make decisions on what to cut and where. Does this go away? I have been fine on smaller stuff. This wasn't that big or particularly scary but I was having trouble handling it. I love the work but today got to me. Hopefully this feeling goes away. Anyway, sorry I just had to vent a bit. Hopefully I can man up about it!


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## begleytree (Oct 7, 2006)

Just take it slow. it will come back. work throught it like you did. If ya need a few extra minutes up there, take them. check and double check yourself for now, but hold back on the second guessing yourself. 
Even guys who have never taken a fall have those moments where doubt creeps in. We're all human. 
sounds like your deaing with it. push it a little, but don't rush it.
-Ralph


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## Dadatwins (Oct 8, 2006)

I believe cautious is a good thing and your heart pumping and double checking everything will help in the long haul. I skidded down a hickory years ago after spiking up with a lanyard just around the tree, spikes kicked out, did not have it doubled on the tree and down I went 25'. Rope caught a stub, or I would have kept going, scrapped up my arms and chest on the way down, not fun. Should have had the laynard doubled, should have had an overhead line, and I was rushing to get done, lots of mistakes. Most times it's the cowboys or the inattentive that get hurt. If you don't mind what caused the fall the first time? Have you modified your system to prevent it?


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## treeseer (Oct 8, 2006)

Dadatwins said:


> what caused the fall the first time? Have you modified your system to prevent it?


Good questions. I had six months off after a major fall, and modified my system to SLOW DOWN and have a backup. In a few weeks confidence was back all the way. Any time i got the shakes, I'd just recheck the system, lean back, and kiss the sky. 

Also while I was rehabbing I started looking at PHC and building those skills. Knowing the whole tree system better makes it easier to trust the tree while climbing.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Oct 8, 2006)

Q. - What did they call the biker after wrecking his bike?






A - An experienced rider!


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## Doctor Dave (Oct 8, 2006)

Dadatwins said:


> I believe cautious is a good thing and your heart pumping and double checking everything will help in the long haul. I skidded down a hickory years ago after spiking up with a lanyard just around the tree, spikes kicked out, did not have it doubled on the tree and down I went 25'. Rope caught a stub, or I would have kept going, scrapped up my arms and chest on the way down, not fun. Should have had the laynard doubled, should have had an overhead line, and I was rushing to get done, lots of mistakes. Most times it's the cowboys or the inattentive that get hurt. If you don't mind what caused the fall the first time? Have you modified your system to prevent it?



I'm not alone---did the same think on a 12 in diameter alder. I went to the bottom and spiked my ankle  I was lucky that the spur went through my boot instead of getting the calf---don't want to think about that.

Advice--slow down and double check your gear whenever you change something. Use back-ups. Don't free-climb conifers like I do---I have to get over that bad habit.


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## clearance (Oct 8, 2006)

Dadatwins said:


> I believe cautious is a good thing and your heart pumping and double checking everything will help in the long haul. I skidded down a hickory years ago after spiking up with a lanyard just around the tree, spikes kicked out, did not have it doubled on the tree and down I went 25'. Rope caught a stub, or I would have kept going, scrapped up my arms and chest on the way down, not fun. Should have had the laynard doubled, should have had an overhead line, and I was rushing to get done, lots of mistakes. Most times it's the cowboys or the inattentive that get hurt. If you don't mind what caused the fall the first time? Have you modified your system to prevent it?


When I climb with spurs (like always) I hold my lanyard (scare strap) with both hands as I go up. This way, if I gaff out with both spurs at the same time and start to fall down my hands come together and the tree gets choked, this slows me very quickly and I can spur in again. But yes, double wrap, especially on those slimy wet alders.


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## l2edneck (Oct 8, 2006)

spooked...does it go away?

I knee knock since my accident a lil more..and now im deathly afraid of the juice.I find my self turnin down jobs that could even just brush the primary.
Fallin has always bothered me,but now i find im a bit more cautious of where everything around me is,what im climbing,obstacles,etc..

As far as goin away...near death experiences will always alter yer thinking.Ive cut myself 3 times but im no more scared of my saw than ever b4.
I think it all depends on yer ability to rebound.JMO

Glad to hear all these stories of guys who have had accidents and returned to the biz.Well done and glad yer all safe.


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## newb (Oct 8, 2006)

I fell 40' out of a Silver Maple on July 1st. I had broke my wrist and fractured my back, I also broke my helmet. Friday I climbed and did a removal on a Sugar Maple, my first since the accident. I was very cautious but things went real well. I also found there was a great loss strength issue and things I couldn't do with my hand yet. But hey, it was great to be back in the tree again.


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## Jumper (Oct 8, 2006)

I had a bad fall, actually landing (not out of a tree) in '99, and broke an arm plus crushed two disks in my back. If anything the next time I was in a similar situation I more appreciated the potential for things to get dirty and ugly in a big hurry. If anything you probably will be a better climber as time goes on...treat the whole thing as a learning experience that fortunately you were able to walk away from.


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## old timer (Oct 8, 2006)

*you'll be fine*

What i would say is just think more how you are going to tackle the job rather than if your scared or not!read my previous posts i've just recently come back into the job after several years absence!i myself climb with two pairs of underwear!


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## treesandsurf (Oct 9, 2006)

could anyone here elaborate on how they fell, it would be great info for the rest of us... thanks!


jp


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## l2edneck (Oct 9, 2006)

heres mine

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=34720


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## treesandsurf (Oct 9, 2006)

thanks for the reply 12edneck, I don't know about you, but I won't touch a job if it's anywhere near power lines, I don't care it's just not worth it to me. I'd rather be broke and healthy than rich and all [email protected]#[email protected]# up, I'll leave the powerline stuff for people that are trained and want the job. Your story makes me even more weary of that crazy [email protected]!#[email protected]#... 

jp


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## Doctor Dave (Oct 9, 2006)

I also had a run-in with a maple log---that was shooting sideways. Clearing a lot, the skidder guy raised the end of a half-dozen logs with the winch, but one caught on the rear tire, lifting the whole pile; so he dropped his load, and a log somehow shot sideways as it dropped. I was standing nearby, saw the pile lift, but then looked away when he dropped the load, only looking up again as the log was coming towards me. I got so far as lifting my right leg to hop over it, but wasn't quick enough. It caught me under the ribs on the right side and knocked me about 10 ft.

On the ground, I took inventory--wiggle toes, feet, move arms; felt like crap but not much pain really. The skidder guy ran over bawling, thinking he had killed me. So I got up, and just felt stiff; but I had 'em drive me to the hospital, where they x-rayed me and wouldn't let me leave 'till I peed to see if I busted a kidney. 

The worst part was the guys calling me the next day, when I was so stiff that I had to crawl on the floor to answer the phone. No follow-up visits, no physical therapy; I was doing the crappy outfit a favor by not filing a workman's comp claim. They just let me go with a weeks pay (I was going to leave in a few weeks anyway after working there a year). To this day I stiffen up if I overdo it.

Moral of story: Don't take your eyes off a skidder that's sucking up its load (or stay the F*** back). File that comp claim, and get therapy after an injury. The company went out of business a few years later--some of the co-owners were skimming most of the profits for themselves; probably why there was such a liberal use of spit and bailing wire keeping things running.


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## fastbub (Oct 9, 2006)

treesandsurf said:


> could anyone here elaborate on how they fell, it would be great info for the rest of us... thanks!
> 
> 
> jp



OK, I started this thread so I will give the details. I was going up the low side of a leaner. SRT. It was a LEANER, so there was no other included branches in the system. Using an ascender and footlocking. I get approx 40 ft up and the top of the tree that had the crotch my rope was throgh broke out. There was no indication from the ground that there was a problem with the tree, but it had some rot up there and a pre-existing crack. I heard the snap and had alot of time to think.....oh s#!t this is going to hurt. lots of wind noise and then I hit the ground. I blacked out for a few and when I woke up, I was on my back, I could wiggle my toes, but that was it. I looked left and a bone poked me in the face. I thought it was my shoulder/ collarbone. I was wrong. It was my forearm. Apparently I landed on my left arm. To cushion the blow, my forearm decided to bypass my elbow and come out where my shoulder usually goes. The rest of my appendage (sp?) was driven into the ground like a stake and the EMS had to dig it out. It did some damage to my knee and ankle as well and re injured the foot I had just broken a month prior. So, as I have been told, I am lucky that's all that happened. I managed not to land on my saw which I was toting up with me. That would have been ugly.


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## l2edneck (Oct 9, 2006)

Ouch! Glad yer ok


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## Dadatwins (Oct 10, 2006)

Thanks for sharing the accident, glad you are able to do this sounds like you had someone watching over you that day. :angel: 
Now what have you changed to prevent this from happening again? Carry binoculars to closer examine the tie in point? set the rope lower?, why are you carrying a saw up with you?, leave it on the ground until you are tied in and have groundy send it up. The spooks will go away in time, but looking at the accident and finding the cause and a way to prevent it from happening again will help.


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## old timer (Oct 10, 2006)

*Things that can go wrong.Perhaps?*

Taking down a large sycamore on a 45 slope high above a house .Roped it all ,no probs, got to the main bole 2 16mm ropes tying it to other trees , all clear? Yes, I thought. But looking again at the landing best check. Lots of leaves/sticks usual rubbish. Still all clear, tree dropped on line, hit bank all smiles until I see it a large lump of wood hidden under the rubbish that I had looked at. Watched it launch through the air down the slope into the house? No! Killed the trash bin! Did I sweat? Yes........... Moral of the story. No matter how you check things can always kick you in the arse, but that's life!!

Old Timer


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## clearance (Oct 10, 2006)

Dadatwins said:


> Now what have you changed to prevent this from happening again? Carry binoculars to closer examine the tie in point? set the rope lower?, why are you carrying a saw up with you?, leave it on the ground until you are tied in and have groundy send it up.


I get slagged for climbing with spurs, all the time, I often hear its faster, safer, etc, all B.S., a pack of lies. Nothing like this accident will ever happen to me, I climb from the base, with my saw, when I tie in I am looking right at the t.i.p., I can touch it, I know if its good, no guessing, looking through binoculars, no risking my life on a "looks good from here". Not the first time I have heard of a t.i.p. failing, on this site at that. And then the ladder games, climb the ladder till you can get your rope in the tree, ha. But then, its not about human safety to some, risk your life because trees are more important, even around power now.


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## beowulf343 (Oct 10, 2006)

old timer said:


> No matter how you check things can always kick you in the arse, but that's life!!
> 
> Old Timer


Boy, ain't that the truth. 

As to whether you can get over being spooked. I'm sure many of us have have had a fall, plunge, or frightening gaff out. I hate to use a cliche but you have got to get back on that horse. Start slow-every job done successfully will help you get a little bit of confidence back. After a dozen or so jobs you will start to get your comfort level back. Sure, you may never be the same as before the accident and you will always have that incident in the back of your mind, but use it to help yourself become a better climber.


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## fastbub (Oct 10, 2006)

clearance said:


> I get slagged for climbing with spurs, all the time, I often hear its faster, safer, etc, all B.S., a pack of lies. Nothing like this accident will ever happen to me, I climb from the base, with my saw, when I tie in I am looking right at the t.i.p., I can touch it, I know if its good, no guessing, looking through binoculars, no risking my life on a "looks good from here". Not the first time I have heard of a t.i.p. failing, on this site at that. And then the ladder games, climb the ladder till you can get your rope in the tree, ha. But then, its not about human safety to some, risk your life because trees are more important, even around power now.



Hey, thanks for the response. I am just curious since I was taught to not use spurs when pruning, do you use them all the time? Does it in fact harm the tree or is it just asthetically unappealing? Do customers mind? I would like to have them on most of the time as it seems like a secure way to go up. I agree that throwing a bag into a crotch up high is sometimes a big ???, but that is how I learned to get into the tree for pruning. This obviously kicked me in the ass and I will be as careful as possible now when setting my t.i.p., but I am curious if many people use spurs all the time, even when pruning. Not any around here that I know of.


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## clearance (Oct 10, 2006)

fastbub said:


> Hey, thanks for the response. I am just curious since I was taught to not use spurs when pruning, do you use them all the time? Does it in fact harm the tree or is it just asthetically unappealing? Do customers mind? I would like to have them on most of the time as it seems like a secure way to go up. I agree that throwing a bag into a crotch up high is sometimes a big ???, but that is how I learned to get into the tree for pruning. This obviously kicked me in the ass and I will be as careful as possible now when setting my t.i.p., but I am curious if many people use spurs all the time, even when pruning. Not any around here that I know of.


I climb with spurs all the time, I know its wrong, I dont care, I come first. I am glad you are ok, just want you to be safe. If you are in doubt, think to yourself "What is most important here, the tree, the customers feelings, ISA rules or my ass?" Good luck to you.


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## rahtreelimbs (Oct 10, 2006)

clearance said:


> Nothing like this accident will ever happen to me




Good one............'til it does happen.........and it can!!!


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## clearance (Oct 10, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> clearance said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing like this accident will ever happen to me
> ...


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## rahtreelimbs (Oct 10, 2006)

clearance said:


> Nothing like this accident will ever happen to me
> Accidents have happened to me, if I tie into something that fails after I have looked right at it, that isn't an accident, its stupidity. If you can't actually see it up close what do you call that? A guess?



Understood............but.............your statement makes you sound infallible.


As far as climbing without hooks..........lies..........maybe............only in a feeble mind!!!


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## RedlineIt (Oct 10, 2006)

Spur everything, see your TIP up close! This is Clearance's mantra.

And, doing what he does out in the bush, I'd do the same. And with no restrictions, it is undoubtedly the tree ascention model with the least chance of a booboo.

But Clearance, you refuse to accept that spurs are often NOT AN OPTION on residential work.

I get work orders with Municipal permits attached that read, : "All Work To Be Done By An ISA Certified Arborist Without The Use Of Spurs."

There are ways to accomplish this work safely without leaving gaff marks up every tree.

Fastbub, glad to hear you'll be OK after that TIP failure, what can you tell us about That Particular Tree, that you might have done different? Could you have tossed in lower and advanced your rope from there? Could you have climbed the UP side of that leaner? Was there a neighboring tree you could have climbed and roped down into the leaner?

Now that you've see such a failure, (and By the Bloody Great Moons of Jupiter, your injuries sound ghastly) Do you feel your decision to SRT it was a bit of an over-reach? Did you stress your TIP before ascent?

Thanks for your indulgence, and it takes a big man to talk about mistakes.

(As did Clearance when he took a bite one-handing his 200t, and wrote about it here.)


RedlineIt


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## fastbub (Oct 10, 2006)

RedlineIt said:


> Fastbub, glad to hear you'll be OK after that TIP failure, what can you tell us about That Particular Tree, that you might have done different? Could you have tossed in lower and advanced your rope from there? Could you have climbed the UP side of that leaner? Was there a neighboring tree you could have climbed and roped down into the leaner?
> 
> Now that you've see such a failure, (and By the Bloody Great Moons of Jupiter, your injuries sound ghastly) Do you feel your decision to SRT it was a bit of an over-reach? Did you stress your TIP before ascent?
> 
> ...



Good questions and I don't mind answering. Tossing in lower was not really an option, the crotch I hit was really the best as it appeared from the ground.
Climbing the upside is a possibility but would have required more time. The neighboring tree idea is a good one that probably could have been utilized in this situation. It was possibly a bit of an over reach. The company I was climbing for really stressed production and I was relatively new. I was aiming to please so I probably didn't take the extra few minutes to look at the alternatives. However I always stress my t.i.p.s, and myself and a rather LARGE groundman stressed it together and all was good so I didn't really think twice about it. Now as I am easing back into the profession, I am stressing quality over quanity. Quality of care for trees and quality of care for myself. I am doing some work for myself right now and am shopping for an employer who has some of the same ideals. I might have found one. We will see in the next couple of weeks.


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## l2edneck (Oct 10, 2006)

> Nothing like this accident will ever happen to me,




Not doubtin yer talent,when you get assified it bites ya,Remember,,,,,security is never there.All trees/days are diff....pay attention...not the reaper!


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## Doctor Dave (Oct 11, 2006)

l2edneck said:


> Not doubtin yer talent,when you get assified it bites ya,Remember,,,,,security is never there.All trees/days are diff....pay attention...not the reaper!



Indeed. Back in the day, the guys that rigged spar poles in the PNW had the highest paying job on the logging show. Besides the risk of cutting their own flip line with an axe, there was the danger that the big old Doug-fir had hidden decay, and could fail at the base or somewhere in between from the rocking after topping the tree. Bummer when you are 150-200 ft. in the air.


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## TackleTree (Oct 11, 2006)

Sorry to hear about your fall. Wish you a speedy recovery. Somethings can be curtailed but not controlled. It is good to see that with your substantial injuries, you still type very well. Also good to hear that your brain wasn't damaged and you are able to reflect and learn from the incident. Was the previous foot injury from tree work also? Hope your luck changes for the good.


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## RedlineIt (Oct 11, 2006)

> Now as I am easing back into the profession, I am stressing quality over quanity. Quality of care for trees and quality of care for myself. I am doing some work for myself right now and am shopping for an employer who has some of the same ideals. I might have found one. We will see in the next couple of weeks.



Good Idea!

I've worked for companies that saw only the bottom line for that week. They are not good to be around...

Ask about their plan for the next ten years. If they actually have one, you're well on your way.


RedlineIt


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## hornett22 (Oct 16, 2006)

*i think when the day comes when...........*

you're not a little bit scared,nervous or cautious,that's the day to quit climbing.


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## Dadatwins (Oct 17, 2006)

hornett22 said:


> you're not a little bit scared,nervous or cautious,that's the day to quit climbing.


Or at least take that day off :biggrinbounce2:


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## johnha (Oct 18, 2006)

fastbub,

I believe if you do a little research on Post Traumatic Stress Disorder you might discover that's what you're suffering from. Its a normal reaction to an accident.


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