# Where to buy? (Shackle for crane tie-in)



## teamtree (Dec 10, 2009)

Anyone tell me where I can buy a shackle that could be used on a crane as a TIP?

What size is recommended?

Or any other thoughts are appreciated....

Thanks!


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## voxac30dude (Dec 10, 2009)

are you tying into the cranes hook or are you taking the hook off and looking for a shackle that will attach to where the hook is bolted on?


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## teamtree (Dec 10, 2009)

Well....I thought according to standards you should have a secure shackle about the ball to tie in to.....

Don't think you are supposed to tie into the ball or remove the ball.....


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## Dave (Dec 10, 2009)

One inch pin is plenty big enough, they're rated 8 1/2 ton. Pin is long (wide) enough for your friction saver. They run around 10 bucks on ebay, kinda pricey at a contractor's supply. Of course, if it comes from ebay you'll want to see a pic and it should be pretty minty.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 10, 2009)

Any large load rated clevis that you can put a locking pin in will do.







Though i would use wire or something besides a plain cotter-pin


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## treemandan (Dec 10, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Any large load rated clevis that you can put a locking pin in will do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is the key, it has to lock. Mine has a through bolt, nut and pin. The one you pictured would make me nervous too.


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## danieltree (Dec 11, 2009)

I use a shackle sometimes above the ball around the cable to hook a limb and then let the climber down on the hook. I use a rescue 8 on the hook and make sure that the gate on the hook is in good shape. I think we(arborists) are the only ones that are allowed to do this. My workers comp guy saw me doing a removal this way and was cool with it.​


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## limbwalker54 (Dec 11, 2009)

I use a shackle with screw pin that is longer than the shackle is wide, so I can put a nut on the end with a cotter pin through the nut....three layers of protection......works great and the shackle is a 2 inch.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 11, 2009)

limbwalker54 said:


> I use a shackle with screw pin that is longer than the shackle is wide, so I can put a nut on the end with a cotter pin through the nut....three layers of protection......works great and the shackle is a 2 inch.



And if you want another quick layer of protection, just double nut the through-bolt.


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## Hoister (Dec 14, 2009)

The nice thing about using a shackle is as long as it has the pin diameter and the capacity forged in ..and its legable ..its fit for use ..providing no other visable defects are seen ..

Rigging generally carries a 5-1 safety factor.. My own weapon of choice is the Crosby brand ..the finest bar none..

A shackle around the becket that still attached to the ball ..its the best and only route ..dont remove the ball ..

just dont trust me ..


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## oldirty (Dec 14, 2009)

Hoister said:


> A shackle around the becket that still attached to the ball ..its the best and only route ..dont remove the ball ..
> 
> just dont trust me ..





master link then the shackle to the master link. that way you can undo the ball and slip it on one time for the rest of your crane climbing life if you are using different cranes.

i suck with terminology so bare with me on this.

becket. that the thing that you pull a pin from and it separates from the ball itself?

anytime we switch cranes we bring the master link and shackle set up with us. 

cable down the ball while its still in the cradle till it just slackens the line enough to where you can undo the pin from the ball slip the master link on re-pin and bang. instant ansi compliance. 

fear not the becket.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 15, 2009)

One setup I saw was using a clevis like this around the cable, so it sits on the ball. Run a friction saver through it so that the TIP hangs down the side of the ball. If you put a carabiner in the FS you can pull the rope regularly without worry of the FS falling off the clevis during a pick.


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## lumberjack333 (Dec 15, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> One setup I saw was using a clevis like this around the cable, so it sits on the ball. Run a friction saver through it so that the TIP hangs down the side of the ball. If you put a carabiner in the FS you can pull the rope regularly without worry of the FS falling off the clevis during a pick.



Just rocked my first crane job yesterday and today... Same shackle as this, set up like you say with friction saver and biner to secure it. What a blast! 35 red pine 70 ft'rs cleaned up and gone in 15hrs... riding up on the crane made the job seem like a joke!


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## Hoister (Dec 15, 2009)

Thats a becket ..or wedge and socket both are popular trade names ..
And yes you have to un-pin it ..
Master link .. last time I heard that it was in regard's to a chain(help) 


Old dirty ..
Are saying you slip a shackle through the becket throat..

Do you have that compliance # and pictures of the arrangement ?


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## oldirty (Dec 15, 2009)

i'll take a pic of it tomorrow for ya.

edit: but ya, right where that pin is. unpin that thing from the ball and slip the masterlink (which that shackle is attached to) right over the ball and re-pin.


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## lego1970 (Dec 15, 2009)

Although I've only flown a few times from a crane and every time was just off the hook, the guy I worked for did end up getting an approved shackle, or at least that's what he told me. He bought one from United Rental that supposedly was OSHA approved. It looked similiar to the pics above, and it had a nut with a key on the outside. The approved part is just what I was told.


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## treemandan (Dec 15, 2009)

To answer the question in the OP I got mine from American Arborist. It was under 100 bucks but not by much if I recall.
I tell you from experinence you don't want to be on that hook. I mean you can ( but not really) but you have to really be careful. I was on a hook years ago, the operator was swinging it into the canopy, I was hollering for him to stop but he didn't. The clasp was opened by the little twigs and my rope popped out just as I got onto a limb but still did not have my lanyard on the tree. It could have been nasty.In fact I am still pissed off about the whole thing.


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## Saw Bones (Dec 16, 2009)

treemandan said:


> That is the key, it has to lock. Mine has a through bolt, nut and pin. The one you pictured would make me nervous too.



You can get a shackle with a screw pin with a nut and cotter key on it. Grainger or any good supply house should be able to help.


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## outofmytree (Dec 16, 2009)

treemandan said:


> To answer the question in the OP I got mine from American Arborist. It was under 100 bucks but not by much if I recall.
> I tell you from experinence you don't want to be on that hook. I mean you can ( but not really) but you have to really be careful. I was on a hook years ago, the operator was swinging it into the canopy, I was hollering for him to stop but he didn't. The clasp was opened by the little twigs and my rope popped out just as I got onto a limb but still did not have my lanyard on the tree. It could have been nasty.In fact I am still pissed off about the whole thing.



Sigh. See I was feeling good abvout you having chipper envy and then you had to go and post this. You know we can't ride the hook over here right? So just stop all this cool talk about crane picks before I break down and


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## treevet (Dec 16, 2009)

Don't know if it has been tested to this effect but if the disengaging device does not work or if the crane does not have one it seems to me that the clevis, if fed up into the sheave by an unalert op would likely break when under pressure.

People been riding the hook for decades. If the sub op says I have to use the clevis (on rare occasion) I will but if it is not there....no biggie. I ride my own without one. Been doing it for, again, decades...and I am still here. 

Lots of these rules are being made by white skinned, soft handed, office type, wannabe's that haven't got a clue. (kinda like Jomoco )


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 16, 2009)

lego1970 said:


> He bought one from United Rental that supposedly was OSHA approved.



There is a big difference between OSHA and ANSI approval. If I understand it right this is one of the areas where Gerstenberger and associates is still haggling with the OSHA. If you are going to use these methods, know the standards you are going by to the letter. My recollection of the Z133 there is no prescribed method of attachment of climber positioning systems; other then not interfering with the crane's functionality.



treemandan said:


> To answer the question in the OP I got mine from American Arborist. It was under 100 bucks but not by much if I recall.
> I tell you from experinence you don't want to be on that hook. I mean you can ( but not really) but you have to really be careful. I was on a hook years ago, the operator was swinging it into the canopy, I was hollering for him to stop but he didn't. The clasp was opened by the little twigs and my rope popped out just as I got onto a limb but still did not have my lanyard on the tree. It could have been nasty.In fact I am still pissed off about the whole thing.





treevet said:


> Don't know if it has been tested to this effect but if the disengaging device does not work or if the crane does not have one it seems to me that the clevis, if fed up into the sheave by an unalert op would likely break when under pressure.
> 
> People been riding the hook for decades. If the sub op says I have to use the clevis (on rare occasion) I will but if it is not there....no biggie. I ride my own without one. Been doing it for, again, decades...and I am still here.
> 
> Lots of these rules are being made by white skinned, soft handed, office type, wannabe's that haven't got a clue. (kinda like Jomoco )


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 16, 2009)

Another caveat with the clevis use - the pin should go against the cable and the climber on the clevis it's self.

A moment for the nomenclature;

A clevis is a type of shackle that is U-shaped and holed for a pin to pass through, not all shackles are clevis. I just feel a need for common nomenclature with critical components.







The conversation dredged this up from my military days. In Helo Op's they use this clevis with a bushing on the pin (the only place I've seen the pin called an apex). This is from an Army FM on rigging helo's (HEE-lows)

FWIW the Navy calls it mousing when you put the safety wire in the end of a threaded/nutted pin.


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## treemandan (Dec 16, 2009)

This seems to work real nice. It comes as a complete unit so no trying to fit square pegs in round holes and takes the guesswork out.


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## treemandan (Dec 16, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Sigh. See I was feeling good abvout you having chipper envy and then you had to go and post this. You know we can't ride the hook over here right? So just stop all this cool talk about crane picks before I break down and



I am only posting an example of what can happen. Now in most cases I don't see a problem with riding the hook. A lot of times people are working under what is on the crane ( steel, trees, roof trusses, etc) so one must trust that the thing is not going to break and this devise still does not negate the fact that it still may. 
I think the reason why you are supposed to ride the hook is for the example I posted, otherwise; Why not? 
It just so happens that the crane operator wasn't paying attention. After I landed and got secure he kept swinging the boom around and managed to break a limb out over my head. The limb didn't fall but stayed attached by a thin strip of bark which I had to go get before anything else. People ask me why I have so many beeners and I tell them " do something stupid below me and you will find out". 
You think you want to cry? Well on the way to the job I was sitting next to some new kid who kept telling me stories of people getting ####ed up doing trees.


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## lego1970 (Dec 16, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> There is a big difference between OSHA and ANSI approval. If I understand it right this is one of the areas where Gerstenberger and associates is still haggling with the OSHA. If you are going to use these methods, know the standards you are going by to the letter. My recollection of the Z133 there is no prescribed method of attachment of climber positioning systems; other then not interfering with the crane's functionality.



Yea, I'll be honest I don't know much about the rules, but thanks for the response. When and if I ever fly by a crane again I'll look into it more.


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## oldirty (Dec 16, 2009)

here you go boys. (if someone wants to put this pic up so it comes up in a post go ahead)


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## Hoister (Dec 16, 2009)

I see ..Old Dirty ..we call it a "D" ring..or a lifting ring ..Master link works to now that Im up to speed ..

Nothing wrong with that.....

However ..replace the shackle ..looks like theres a notch worn on the saddle ..Use that one to get you out of the mud ..


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## Hoister (Dec 16, 2009)

treevet said:


> *Don't know if it has been tested to this effect but if the disengaging device does not work or if the crane does not have one it seems to me that the clevis, if fed up into the sheave by an unalert op would likely break when under pressure.*
> People been riding the hook for decades. If the sub op says I have to use the clevis (on rare occasion) I will but if it is not there....no biggie. I ride my own without one. Been doing it for, again, decades...and I am still here.
> 
> Lots of these rules are being made by white skinned, soft handed, office type, wannabe's that haven't got a clue. (kinda like Jomoco )



Treevet ...what you describe is known as "2-blocking" every crane new or old must have a "A2B" or "Anti-2-blocking" alarm ..This will do one or 3 of the following and is required to be operational 100% of the time 

1 - it well signal a audible alarm loud enough for the operator the hear
2- it will produce a flashing light with the audible alarm
3 - it will disengage the winch up/scope out /or boom down function of the crane ..all the while Either producing an audible alarm / flashing light or both

This is generally what that weight looks like 






To test the system ..all a guy has to do is lift up on the weight ,, and ask the operator to hoist up ..on newer units he shouldn't be able to with out putting the crane in rigging mode or over-riding the system.. on an older unit a light should flash and an audible signal heard in the operator's station ..

By the letter of the law ..if its not there or not working .the crane shouldn't be put into service ..


In your last statement ..Yeah ..anybody who's been at it for a spell knows this is true ..


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## BigUglySquirrel (Dec 16, 2009)

*clevis, shackle, u-bolt*

Hey all. 

In this neck of the woods, the rigging industry calls this piece a clevis or shackle. Clevis is most popular. They come in different ratings so BE CAREFUL. Industrial rigging use capacity @ 3/4" pin (or apex) is 6.5 TONS. (13,000 lbs. for those playing along at home)

Now, for tree work--namely riding the ball of a crane-- we have the hook which is pinned to the headache ball which is pinned to the beckett that terminates the cable. When using the beckett, the tail is redirected back toward the upper sheave assembly at the tip of the boom of the crane. (ya dig so far?)

Ok.. from there, we take 2 cable clamps and clamp the dead end (tail) to the standing end, leaving a slight gap between the two segments. (Just a reminder, when working with cable, it's good rigging practice to "never saddle a dead horse." In other words, the "dead" end (tail) should be captured on the U-bolt side of the cable clamp assembly. Also, it's important to pay attention to the torque specifications that accompany your cable clamps. Thirdly, make CERTAIN that you are using the appropriate sized cable clamp for your cable.)

Now we place a 3/4" clevis in between the cables and tighten the apex into the body using a 12" adjustable wrench. It's also important to note that the APEX goes between the cables so that your Tie-in-point is the BODY of the clevis. NO. We don't use the "pinned" variety because they aren't rated as strong and there's no need for it. Tightening the axis with a wrench will hold it in place with no issue. If you're still concerned with it, use low-grade locktite.

From there we tie into the body of the clevis with your preferred hitch. It's nice because you can ride without bonking your melon on the headache ball or having to worry about your line getting tangled with the rigging sling/cable when you attach the load to the hook. It's also waaay better than tying into the hook because you can get up closer to the hook when attaching your rigging sling/cable.

If there's any questions I'll try to draw something up or elaborate. BTW--the only reason we use a clevis that large is because it's a sure-fire bet that your line won't get tangled on retrieval and you can feed a clevis or ropesnap through it pretty easily. Remember, tie-in points are part of a life support system so they MUST be rated at a minimum of 5,000 lbs. PER CLIMBER ATTACHED. As a sidenote....Friction savers are pretty redundant in this case because the clevis is a smooth steel surface. Friction savers just get in the way and add length. If you need additional length, just let out some line on your climbing line. You can always take it back in if you need to. Just my two cents there.

Hope this helps!

Chris


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## BigUglySquirrel (Dec 16, 2009)

oops...  meant to mention that I have clevises if you're in need. Just email me @ [email protected]

Chris


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## treemandan (Dec 16, 2009)

Hoister said:


> I see ..Old Dirty ..we call it a "D" ring..or a lifting ring ..Master link works to now that Im up to speed ..
> 
> Nothing wrong with that.....
> 
> However ..replace the shackle ..looks like theres a notch worn on the saddle ..Use that one to get you out of the mud ..



I don't think there is anything wear that would negate the safety of that set up. I don't like the fact that the climbing line contacts the crane hardware though.


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## BigUglySquirrel (Dec 16, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I don't think there is anything wear that would negate the safety of that set up. I don't like the fact that the climbing line contacts the crane hardware though.



personally not a fan of the ring interfering with the swivel actions of the headache ball. just MO tho..looks plenty beefy.


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## treemandan (Dec 16, 2009)

BigUglySquirrel said:


> personally not a fan of the ring interfering with the swivel actions of the headache ball. just MO tho..looks plenty beefy.



That is what I was referring to as well. But it looks like its working.


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## oldirty (Dec 16, 2009)

i can take that shackle and throw it around the "beckett" like it was a spinwheel. no interference at all. 

and when you hang your weight on it the climb line does not touch the ball at all. i moved the shackle for the pic so you would be able to read the WLL. which is 8.5ton i think. and that masterlink is good for 10ton as well....i think. lol.


anyway she a lovely set up with no spin or rope rub'n interference. highly recommend it. mr treevet, sir. all my previous crane climbing was off da hook too before i joined where i am now. it'd be mighty white of ya to make this switch. painless even!

stay safe boys!


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## treemandan (Dec 16, 2009)

oldirty said:


> i can take that shackle and throw it around the "beckett" like it was a spinwheel. no interference at all.
> 
> and when you hang your weight on it the climb line does not touch the ball at all. i moved the shackle for the pic so you would be able to read the WLL. which is 8.5ton i think. and that masterlink is good for 10ton as well....i think. lol.
> 
> ...








did you say " don't fear the becket" ?


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## Hoister (Dec 17, 2009)

treemandan said:


> *I don't think there is anything wear that would negate the safety of that set up*. I don't like the fact that the climbing line contacts the crane hardware though.



I can see noticeable wear on that saddle ..If an Inspector saw it ..it would get replaced before work resumed ....And thats pretty much how they play ...

Ive thrown shackles out for less ..


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## treevet (Dec 17, 2009)

Looks like both of those cotter pins are subject to some abrasion as well. If either one fails remember don't worry about the fall.....it is the landing that may be of concern...:biggrinbounce2:


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## oldirty (Dec 17, 2009)

treevet said:


> Looks like both of those cotter pins are subject to some abrasion as well. If either one fails remember don't worry about the fall.....it is the landing that may be of concern...:biggrinbounce2:



lol.

go look at that other thread i started. see some crane action.


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