# New Rayco RG 90...I saw one in action today



## mtcates

I was driving around town grinding stumps and I saw this new Rayco Stump Grinder being unloaded a few houses down the street from one of my jobs so I stopped just to see what machine this guy had. It happened to be the new RG90 by Rayco. I was interested to see this 90 HP beast in action and he was so proud to show off his new machine. Well, he went to work on a pine stump about 16 inches in diameter cut within 4 inches of the ground. When he finished he stopped the machine and asked me what I thought. I told him I could out grind his machine with my 60 HP Carlton 7015. No way he said, 90 HP compaired to 60 HP. Well, there happened to be another stump exactly the same size as the one he ground. I unloaded my machine and showed him. I ground the 16 inch pine stump to the same depth as he did; about 6 to 8 inches below grade. It took me 16 passes of the cutter wheel and about 1 to 1 1/2 minutes. My 60 HP $30,000 machine out-cut his 90 HP $50,000 machine; and the Rayco did not even have a remote control like my Carlton. Our teeth seemed to be about the same degree of sharpness. Mine were possibly a little duller. The 90 HP machine could not take as much wood on a pass as my 60 HP machine. The only thing that I can think of that could be the cause of this is the tooth pattern on the Carlton as well as my own tooth configuration is more efficient at cutting the wood. I do believe that if we were pulling the same cutter wheel, he would have easily been the winner. This shows that there is more to cutting a stump than just horsepower. I use 3 different types of teeth on the wheel at the same time. I have figured out a way to make the machine cut more efficiently and now I have witnessed it in person with a comparison to a much more powerful machine. I hope I didn't hurt his feelings too much...........


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## spike-columbia

*How about sharing your configuration!*

Everyone will be very interested. 

Thanks for reply.


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## Koa Man

The experience of the operator is also a big factor. I can grind a stump much faster than my climber using the same machine. I have about 50 times more experience operating it.


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## mtcates

Spike.....The main benefit of the tooth configuration on my Carlton cutter wheel comes from this. The cutters on the wheel that take out the center on a plunge cut have no need to touch the stump unless you are plunge cutting. On a side sweep which accounts for 99% of your grinding time, the side leads do most of the cutting. I simply set all of the center cutting teeth to about 1/4 to 3/8 inch deeper into the pocket to eliminate their drag on the stump in a side sweep. I also use a different tooth for this position. It has about 1/4 inch less side offset than the main side cutters. Every manufacturer has a different cutter wheel design and there will be some difference in setup. The Rayco wheel design robs power with the way the center cutters stick out past the side leads. If an operator uses the bolt on teeth with no way to guage them, like the rayco super cutters, then he is loosing a lot of power to pull those center cutters through the wood. If I owned a Rayco I would use standard 1/2 inch shank teeth in these positions on the wheel and set them to a depth where they did not drag on the stump in a side sweep. If I'm not mistaking, the rayco wheel on this RG90 had 6 straight cutters at this position on the wheel. Now the Vermeer tooth pattern is superior to the Rayco in this manner because the center cutters position on the wheel are pre-drilled so they are cutting a little behind the side leads. This is exactly what I do with my Carlton wheel by setting them a little deeper. .......Another thing that I do is; I use Leonardi tomahawk teeth on the Lead cutting positions. For those of you that haven't tried these teeth, do yourself a favor and try them. They have a radical positive cutting angle and it cuts the wood easier. Behind the leads I use a standard 1/2 inch Kennametal shank tooth in a Leonardi Ultimate Pocket. The pockets are heat treated and release the tooth very easily when loosened for changing. The lead cutters offset to the side about 1/8 inch more than the kennametal shank tooth......Think about my theory here tell me what you think........If I take a chainsaw and cut a curf in a piece of wood an inch or two from the end I can take a hammer and with a very light tap i can break off a piece of wood. It breaks with the grain. Now think about the teeth behind the leads on a stump cutter. If the lead offsets a little farther to the side than the teeth farther back, the back teeth in a sense are just breaking the wood off with the grain instead of cutting a new curf so to speak. With this setup I can sharpen or change the leads and let the back teeth get very dull and it still cuts very well. The wheel on my machine has a tooth pattern which lets me cut about 2 3/4 inches of wood on a pass and if the teeth are in good shape I can cut all of that and then some with a very fast sweep to boot.......... I'm sure that if this guy was turning my wheel on his RG 90 he would have beat my grinding time, But I have this wheel setup down to a science and he does not.


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## Thor's Hammer

Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into it.
What do you think of this tooth setup?


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## mtcates

TreeCo.........I'm just posting the truth on what happened to me the other day and trying to share what I have learned about the wheel setup with others. I really dont care how fast another stump grinder is. I know I have a very productive machine and it serves me well. I make my living with a stump grinder. I don't do tree work at all. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I respect yours, However, This did happen just as I said in my original post.


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## stumpy66

Interesting stuff mtcates, you can keep sharing your truth cos i find it facinating....i am enjoying another proper stumpers experiences. will check out Leonardi tomahawk teeth....thanks mtcates..


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## Thor's Hammer

so what do you guys think of the multi tip system then?
http://www.multi-tip.com/index.htm


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## mtcates

Thor........That stump grinder in the picture you posted looks like a huge machine. Looks like one of those land clearing grinders. Now that would be the machine to have for high production but it sure would be tough on the turf........I have no comment on the Multi tip system. I have read the other posts on this websight about them but have yet to see them in action...

Stumpy66.....here is the web address for the Tomahawk teeth. http://www.leonardimfg.com/teethtomahawk.html They are not cheap but they sure do cut well. I only run them on the lead positions. The cutters behind the leads I run 1/2 inch shank standard teeth. Check out the positive rake angle of the cutting tip. The carbide tip is large enough that I can sharpen them 4 to 6 times before they are worn out. I sharpen them right on the cutter wheel with a 4 inch angle grinder.........What stump machine do you have?


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## Thor's Hammer

Yeah MT, its a land clearing machine. About 500hp I think...


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## stumpy66

I run a dosko (with multitip fitted) and a vermeer 352 standard.
There are two versions of the multitip, the first which i bought into is adequate for small machines, it transformed the cutting from the original dosko wheel, much beter cut. better design...the original idea was to slot the teeth in to the wheel to spead the load of the tooth and wheel...the bolts bend so that didn't quite work. You have to change the way you think with it, use new bolts nearly every time but it does cut well....as for quality....the teeth can have tips come off....
The new version have address'ed this. and seems to be a lot more sturdy and has a safer feel i guess....it is good that someone is trying a new product in the cutter world. we all need innovation, it will make out lives easier and more profitable. A lot of bad ???? is said about the system, mostly fuelled by other manafacturers (in my experience anyway) i say that people should try it, be open to it. It is a differnt system and needs to worked differently. Multitip's/arbourplant customer/dealer service has been rubbish to me but i everyone should think about it and be a little open minded to the innovation's in the industry......(i will have a litle sit down now, perhaps a cup of tea)...others experiences required.....has anyone else used it...seen it or heard any first hand feedback....Rob


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## Thor's Hammer

Anyone know anything about these then???
http://www.mgt.sandvik.com/sandvik/...us17001.nsf/LookupAdm/BannerForm?OpenDocument


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## mtcates

Thor......Carlton is working out a deal right now to put this wheel on their machines. They actually have already done so. I talked to a guy with a Carlton 7015 like mine and he said that with this wheel the 60 HP machine will cut 5 inches of wood on a single pass. This wheel has been out for some time but only as an aftermarket product. I actually told the guy that had the RG90 that he should get this wheel for his machine and referred him to a websight where he could get one. I wasn't putting down his RG90 at all when I beat his time with my 60 hp machine. It was all in the wheel I know. His machine would beat me hands down if he was turning the same wheel. I would trade him tomorrow for his machine if he would do so.

Stumpy66........I have thought about getting a smaller machine for the extremely tight areas. I have not made up my mind yet and dont know if it would be profitable. My machine can get through a 36 inch gate. I have been thinking about an Alpine Magnum. A Grinder that I can carry on my shoulder would be an asset on some jobs but at 4 grand its a lot of money.


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## Thor's Hammer

sounds good. I fancy one on one of these...


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## stumpy66

thats produced by the same people that produce multitip.........again, all experiences apprieciated...


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## Thor's Hammer

yeah. arborplant. unfortunately, they dont seem to have a very good reputation.
i just like the design of that thing. you can see it was designed by a treeman.


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## stumpy66

i can only speak from experience...spent 700 quid to become a distributer of multitip....spent money, got stock, but no backup....no promises/deals kept, no calls no letter....all patrick was worried about was if i was using the teeth for myself....so i have the stock...but no details of anyone that uses them....nice one multitip......again, its not a bad product.....but what an arse of a company......


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## Thor's Hammer

I have to say, from an engineering standpoint the dura disc is way better. Personaly, I've always used rayco super teeth. The multitip looks too flimsy.


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## stumpy66

have you used duradisc.....i am still trying to get my head around it....but try the new version of multitip.......it is not a bad effort.....


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## mtcates

Thor........What Stump Grinding machine do you run? I have tried the Rayco super teeth and while I do love their design of one piece, the tomahawk tooth that I run at lead on my wheel cuts with much less effort. Just try one set of tomahawks and let me know what you think. The price is very similar to the rayco super teeth.

Stumpy66.......I have never ran the duradisc myself but I have met a guy that has used one for several years now. He now has a machine like mine with the duradisc. He demoed the wheel on his machine for Carlton and they were so impressed that they made a deal with Sandvik and are now offering the wheel from the factory. The 60 HP Carlton 7015 he has will cut 5 inches of wood on a single pass with a 27 inch cutter wheel.


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## stumpy66

i like the fact that there are options....i would like to see it demo'ed...i might enquire and see if it is available over here.....wonder how the cost compare...? (60hp....i would love for that sort of Hp to be added to the fleet.....a year or two away i think)


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## ROLLACOSTA

vermeer pro teeth rule !!!!


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## Liston

*Watch this space*



Thor's Hammer said:


> Anyone know anything about these then???
> http://www.mgt.sandvik.com/sandvik/...us17001.nsf/LookupAdm/BannerForm?OpenDocument




Watch this space a NEW Sandvik cutter wheel has been tryed and tested and will be fitted to all Carltons soon.Will out cut all other cutter types on the market and does not throw chip.Neat and tidy.up to 5" side cuts.
Now see that 90hp Rayco look very sad up against a 48hp 7015  .


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## stumpy66

well Liston, i shall indeed watch that space, will they be fitting to Uk spec machines?.....looks like the world of stump grinding is getting a little bit more interesting.....
To all you stumpers out here..do you have any trouble getting 1/2 inch usa size hex sockets to fit pocket allen key type bolt heads? i have a had a bit of a job....what tool do you use to tighten the pocket bolts?....


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## stumpy66

I would have thought that the machine seller supplying the tool would be the sensible option!! not sure that is the case in the UK...i am surprised that after spending £16,000 you have to search for a tool to change teeth....but perhaps thats just me..... I now have a source for hi impact 1/2 inch hex sockets if anyone in the Uk needs one!!


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## ROLLACOSTA

Liston said:


> Watch this space a NEW Sandvik cutter wheel has been tryed and tested and will be fitted to all Carltons soon .




Well it's about time Carlton used something better than them silly 1/4'' finger teeth, I mean there ok on small cheap machines, but big expensive machines deserved something a whole lot better IMO...


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## transporter

stumpy66 said:


> I would have thought that the machine seller supplying the tool would be the sensible option!! not sure that is the case in the UK...i am surprised that after spending £16,000 you have to search for a tool to change teeth....but perhaps thats just me..... I now have a source for hi impact 1/2 inch hex sockets if anyone in the Uk needs one!!



any snap on dealer sells them or Mac tools Liston sell them also thats where i got mine


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## stumpy66

were are you in the south, southern....any advance on southern uk.......i am down there myself this week.....


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## Liston

*1/2 socket*

1/2 hex 1/2 drive socket. Give me a call and I,ll send one in the post.


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## Liston

stumpy66 said:


> I would have thought that the machine seller supplying the tool would be the sensible option!! not sure that is the case in the UK...i am surprised that after spending £16,000 you have to search for a tool to change teeth....but perhaps thats just me..... I now have a source for hi impact 1/2 inch hex sockets if anyone in the Uk needs one!!



All new Carltons come with tools to change and guage the teeth


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## stumpy66

Nice one Liston...good karabena's at the shows too, the compass is a nice touch....The Carton was a good second choice....i would still like a demo...just out of interest....not sure the supply of a tool would swing it for me but its the little things that count.... Long live competition!!


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## B-Edwards

I buy 1/2 hex wrench, cut it in many sections and use a 1/2 socket. That way i get many new tools out of 1. New hex tools keep your bolts from becoming sloppy and worn as soon as using an older hex with worn sides.


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## km stumps

*multi tip cutter wheel*

thanks for feed back on multi tip will have to try my self on sc252, spoken to contractors who use the new version , and it works , so will keep you posted ,was going to fit sandvic dura disc but aprently you cant plundge cut no good for street work .


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## km stumps

*multi tip*

multi tip wheel and teeth arived today not flimsy at all ,thats rubbish , cutter wheel 1 inch teeth sit in slot with taper tight and snug just need to fit and try it out ,will keep posted


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## Bigstumps

Don't flatter yourself so much. The Hydrostat is eating up a lot of the horsepower the RG90 starts with. Even on Rayco's own literature they tell you their belt drive units cut faster than the Hydrostats.

Watch the Bandit Hydrostat cut on their website. 140HP on it and my old 672 Vermeer would smoke it!!!


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## km stumps

*multi tip*

fitted multi tip wheel and teeth it took 3 hours , ran it at slow speed to start better balance at low and high speed than normal wheel hope it cuts with out bearing and belt failure very well made fitted perfect


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## km stumps

*multi tip*

used multi tip wheel and teeth on vemeer 252 , realy cuts well very fast 24 inch monkey puzzle stump, not the hardest of stumps,but cut very fast lots of stones and flint no wear on teeth at all , normaly change a few pro teeth very aggresive gentle on controls but soon get the hang of it wont be going back, its to fast,:bang: the rubbish i was told about it


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## stumpy66

i use multi tip and its ok.....i have the mark 1 version and got stitched by the company.....my own fault for trusting patrick watts...that the problem with multi tip...the owners....


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## km stumps

*multi tip*

yes i have read a bit about the company and machines , but this newer version of multi tip really works well it does cut very fast


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## ROLLACOSTA

Bad move fitting a multi-tip imo..


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## Bigstumps

Morbark machines over here have them. I don't get it, dull one tooth - replace all four?? Bust one side - switch all four???


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## km stumps

*multi tip*

i change a pair of pro teeth at £16 a pop plus vat from b track , now i change 4teeth at a cost of £8 plus vat , and afraction of time dont get your point , this is the kind of crap i read all time, iwill try this system out if it is no good and does bearings and belts in will let you know , been stump grinding for 15 years and seen new machines wrecked by bad operators who blame machine


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## km stumps

*multi tip*

hi rollacosta why is it a bad move to fit multi tip, tell me why and save me some money.


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## ROLLACOSTA

Everyone I know who has fitted a multi-tip on a larger grinder has gone back to the original wheel,the Duradisk is just as bad,my mate used a Carlton with the Duradisk he said it cut real slow..


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## km stumps

*multi tip*

i can understand going back if it its not for them , iwas told get green teeth all singing and dancing stump cutter teeth, fitted them to a rayco 1620 they were slower than basic tooth needed a truck for chippings and bearings went home so will keep open mind on multi tip if its crap ive tried them .


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## Bigstumps

ROLLACOSTA said:


> Everyone I know who has fitted a multi-tip on a larger grinder has gone back to the original wheel,the Duradisk is just as bad,my mate used a Carlton with the Duradisk he said it cut real slow..



I've seen the Dura Disk cut and it is shockingly fast, smooth, and doesn't throw the chips!! I'm just not going to pay the money to switch!!!


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## stumped!!

hope these fancy tooth makers appreciate all these free field trials !


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## km stumps

*multi tip*

if it trials good thats ok for me, its faster quicker to change teeth cheeper than pro teeth, and cost £350 to get started dura disc is £700 with no vat and the teeth ar exstra multi tip is a good idea thats cheap , means more time and profit , if i do a 3 foot oak and think its crap, i will tel you other stumpers so you dont waste your money


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## ROLLACOSTA

Bigstumps said:


> I've seen the Dura Disk cut and it is shockingly fast, smooth, and doesn't throw the chips!! I'm just not going to pay the money to switch!!!



Come back to me when you've seen the duradisk cut with slightly dull teeth..


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## stumpy66

so in theory all the new research is to poo!!!! is not thousands of pounds worth of research worth a jot.......can green teeth/pro teeth have had the design right from the off?......duradisc/multitip are all rubbish (in theory)..... how will we progress?.....what is the next step forward??


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## mtcates

Stumpy66..........I will agree that wheel setup has an impact on grinding efficiency, but the more power you have to turn the wheel the less you worry about the wheel setup. Lets face it, 100 horsepower will shread a stump. Lower power grinders must cut the wood and higher power machines just tear it apart with dull teeth. If you want more performance, get a higher power machine. If you are making money with what you have, then its working for you. When you cant keep up with your work load, a higher power machine is the way to go. I will agree that using a more efficient wheel setup is a plus but more power is a plus also.


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## km stumps

*multi tip*

multi tip works, i now use it , and have had no problems yet ,i keep loads of spare teeth for my machines belts tools ect in back of disco ,only major failures i cant deal with . teeth always sharp never have cutter head bounce thats the same for any wheel or machine,


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## stumpy66

todd, you are spot on with high machine power covering up cutting disc inadeqacies. but all these new cutting systems cannot all be rubbish....i think all have their place....it would be good if an independant group could get together and test them back to back....the arb mags are probably the only ones that could afford to do it...but are they that bothered about stump grinders?....


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## ROLLACOSTA

stumpy66 said:


> what is the next step forward??



Longer lasting teeth.

Surely if something better was out there Vermeer,rayco or Carlton would have invented it..


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## ROLLACOSTA

stumpy66 said:


> what is the next step forward??



Longer lasting teeth.

Surely if something better was out there Vermeer,rayco or Carlton would have invented it..


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## stumpy66

multi-tip is much better on my dosko than finger teeth...+ wheel design.....i am better off with multi-tip.....even though i don't like the company....innovation...and proper evaluation is where it is at.......fair play to the folk that spend a fu*k load on money making cutting easier......arborplant included....if i works better...then let the world know...
this is where specialist work....you want a stump taken out..call a specialist....


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## km stumps

*multi tip*

cleared two large stumps one 3 foot one 4 foot with all butre s roots over 4x4 meters sq with depth of 2foot used vemmeer 252 with multi tip changed 2x teeth . cleared base for swimming pool changeing room two ton digger helped a bit but not with stumps or big roots, no belt failure teeth lasted well in clay and flint bearings ok it really cutts fast even at funny angles no wear on wheel teeth change very quick ,job 5hours all in slowed down by digger will fit one to my new carlton i think


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## mtcates

I know two people who run the Dura Disk on a Carlton and they both say the cutters last far longer than the other teeth they have tried. I have no experience with this wheel myself other than one time I demoed one. It cuts very well but it did not cut any faster than my current setup. The reason they say the teeth last so long on the Dura Disk is because the size of the carbide on the cutter is twice as large as most other teeth and because of the durability of the teeth at this size, the carbide can be of a harder grade without breaking. Is there anyone else reading this that can attest to this statement? I'm just relaying what my friends say as I have little experience with this wheel.


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## km stumps

*dura disc*

hi i was going to bye a sandvic dura disc the price is £1000 plus vat and £10 a tooth a bit to dear i think , at moment so i fitted multi tip , the only way to find out if these wheels are any good is to fit one or to see a demo speak to someone who has fitted one and has cained it on every kind of stump


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## Curbside

mtcates said:


> I know two people who run the Dura Disk on a Carlton and they both say the cutters last far longer than the other teeth they have tried. I have no experience with this wheel myself other than one time I demoed one. It cuts very well but it did not cut any faster than my current setup. The reason they say the teeth last so long on the Dura Disk is because the size of the carbide on the cutter is twice as large as most other teeth and because of the durability of the teeth at this size, the carbide can be of a harder grade without breaking. Is there anyone else reading this that can attest to this statement? I'm just relaying what my friends say as I have little experience with this wheel.




I've run the Dura Disk all summer and am very impressed. The carbides are extremly rugged. They take a pounding on rock, concrete and steel. They seem to keep cutting when hitting concrete and rock. They are more likely to break when they hit substantial steel but often just chip. I take the cutter off and put it on the other side of the disk and just keep using the other edge. The carbide is at least twice as large. I am very glad I switched over from Vermeer Pro teeth to the Dura Disk. Switching teeth are a breeze, the disk cuts great and can take huge bites and the chips seem to be well contained and are often very small chips making handling much easier. For me it was worth the money and I felt it was not overly expensive to change over.


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## km stumps

*dura disc*

hi can you plunge cut the stump i e cut from the top front down thro ugh it when room is tight ie council paths and no damage to pavement with services around


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## Bigstumps

Curbside,

What machine are you running it on?? What horsepower?? Where did you get it? Cost in US $$$$.

I've heard a lot about it not throwing the chips near as bad. If this is true it would be worth it to me.


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## dozerdogue

I have demoed the Rayco RG90 the vermeer sc60tx and carlton 7015 with the sandvic wheel all within the past week on similar trees. Here is the absolute truth the vermeer was the slowest grinding followed by the Rg90. I can easily say without a doubt the carlton and sandvic wheel will absolutely outgrind these machines 3:1. I'm not here for argument sakes it's a fact and if you don't believe me go out and demo one and you will see the incredible difference. This demonstration lead me to the purchase of a new 7015trx. This machine is a stumps worst nightmare taking 5+" bites in hardwood is no exaggeration. This machine is the total package and the wheel rocks.


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## Curbside

Dozerdogue

Did the Vermeer or the Rayco have the Sandvic Disk on it? Or were you comparing their regular teeth to the Carlton with the Sandvic. If that was the case any machine equipped with that disk will rock.


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## dozerdogue

Curbside said:


> Dozerdogue
> 
> Did the Vermeer or the Rayco have the Sandvic Disk on it? Or were you comparing their regular teeth to the Carlton with the Sandvic. If that was the case any machine equipped with that disk will rock.



The rayco had the super tooth set up but according to rayco they they tried them and were not impressed by the sandvic wheel. So I decided to call New River equipment corp out of Ohio where they manufacture these wheels. I spoke to a gentleman and he said "rayco did indeed try one of the wheels but they apparently gave the wrong specs for the machine and it more or less pounded the stump rather then grind it". Since then no one has yet to purchase one for their rayco because of the badmouthing. I will say this if the rayco did have the sandvic wheel for their machine I'm sure it would be awesome. According to sandvic they will be starting production of rayco cutter wheels with the proper specs and make them available after the 1st of the year and pursue the market. he said "their are people out there with vermeer units equipped with this wheeel and they love it". I myself felt I could find a better way to spend the 15k difference in price between the carlton 7015 with tracks and rayco rg90 with tires. To me the proof was in the pudding never using a carlton with a remote control I ground an almost 6 foot by 6" high oak stump in 15-20 minutes. This is coming from a total noob who has only used a stump grinder a handful of times.


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## Bigstumps

I heard Rayco voids your warranty if you run teeth other than their Superteeth. Seems like a ploy to tie you into their replacements.

The Supertooth looks to have the EXACT same piece of carbide as my Pro Series but the teeth cost twice as much. Maybe they should give the machine away and make their money on teeth - like my HP photo printer:biggrinbounce2: 

Vermeer tells me they have a new Yellowjacket tooth coming???? Sales guy didn't know anything else except "it is awesome!" How can you say that if you don't know anything else about it??


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