# My $65000 cigarette lighter (Powerstroke diesel)



## 300zx_tt (Mar 26, 2019)

I have to say guys I’m pretty disappointed with my 2014 6.7 Powerstroke. I bought the truck used with 70k miles on it, less than a year ago. It currently has 74,xxx miles on it. ( got lucky and had 2 big jobs in a row, very close to home) about 3-4 months after I bought it I had a check engine light, ended up being a vacuum pump and while they were diagnosing it they said I had an EGR failure. They replaced it under warranty. Cool no big deal vacuum pump was under $500 otd. Fast forward to a week ago, truck throws a code, p0272 cylinder 4 imbalance, was running fine so I limped it to the dealer. When I pulled in it was running a little rough, no noise out of the ordinary, banging, pinging nothing. Scanned it again in the dealers lot and it had 2 codes the same 0272 and now an 0275 as well. Cylinder 4&5 imbalance. Dealer says I need 2 new injectors. I say the whole fuel system was done by the previous owner last year $8,950 dollar repair bill, here’s the paperwork. Dealership does the work under warranty. Only the cylinder 4 light comes back on. They call and say bad news, it needs heads, cylinder 4 is down 50psi (325psi vs 375 for the others). Probably a cracked valve. They’re saying ~$5100. Now I’m pretty pissed. The diesel has a 5 year, 100,000 mile warranty. The truck was sold November 29th 2013 so I’m 4 months out of warranty and 26,000 miles under. Dealer says ford might pick up the bill or part of it since it’s only a few months out and it’s low miles. Ok fine do the heads. Get a call yesterday. Hey Mr.S we’ve got a problem. You’ve got broken pushrods and rockers that are loose, we’re going to pull the heads and see if there’s more damage... holy **** Ford are you guys kidding me? They left a message today. “You’re going to need a new long block”. I called back, the manager was busy and he never returned my call. I’m waiting to see if Ford is going to step up and do the right thing. I honestly can’t drop 15k on a new motor for this thing. Not sure what’s going on at the dealership, I’m pretty pissed about it.


I wanted to wait until I knew exactly what was going to happen before I made a big deal about it...

Got a call from ford today, they basically said **** you and that’s that. What a joke, a $65,000 truck that has had 9k worth of work now needs a new motor. They also mentioned my CVS (customer value score) was too low.... My great grandfather was a contractor and used only fords, my grandfather, a contractor, had nothing but fords, my father also a contractor had nothing but fords, this truck is my 5th f350. I haven’t owned a new ford. This is the newest truck I’ve owned. 


This whole experience is beyond frustrating. And I honestly can’t ever see myself owning a ford after this. I’ve never been this mad about something in my entire life. Why spend my hard earned money with a company that leaves me high and dry. 


Just wanted to put my experience out there and let everyone know what all happened with my truck. 


Hope everyone has a good day


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## Deleted member 117362 (Mar 26, 2019)

Had a similar experience with my 2004 Ford F350. After 13th time at dealship for major engine repairs, traded it in on a 2006 Duramax and still in my driveway.


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## Big Red Oaks 4 me (Mar 26, 2019)

I miss the Mopars of the 60's, 70's and 80's.


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## 4seasons (Mar 26, 2019)

Customer value score? Are you saying that Ford assigned a score to tell them how hard to screw you? And there is yet another reason why I have never owned a Ford. Came close once when I found an early Bronco for $4k about 20 years ago in good condition. But when I returned from the bank to buy it the price went up to $5k. They said it was a typo on the price list. You can tell a dealership is lying if their lips are moving.

Sorry to pile on the Ford hate, but Ford hasn't made a decent vehicle since 1970. GM suffered about the same fate but did keep a decent truck line, and a few winners with the small block Chevy thru the 80's and 90's. Mopar also crashed during the gas crunch but figured out a winning combination when they put a medium duty Cummins in a light truck. The power stroke has always been the puny joke trying to keep up. And yes I have driven them all as a professional driver. I have also worked on them all before and can tell you that almost any job on a Ford takes twice as long and twice as many tools as other makes. It also cost 3 times more in parts than a Chevy and you can't find parts in a junkyard because that part was only used for one year and they all broke. But let me step down from my Ford bashing platform now.

If you take your vehicle to a dealership to get work done, you better be a millionaire. I am only a shade tree mechanic but I work on all my own vehicles. If I have to take it somewhere to have work done, I know the mechanic personally or he comes highly recommend. Also they can forget the "no customers in the shop" rule because if you tell me something is broken that I didn't already know about, you will take me back and show me. My response will normally be that I will fix that on my own, but I also look every thing over before it goes in. If they cut a belt to try to sale me one I will know about it and when I find out everyone else will as well. I really wish we didn't live in a world where everyone is out to get you, but knowing this makes me a realist even if I am paranoid.


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## Jed1124 (Mar 26, 2019)

They should fix everything under warranty. You’ll have to fight the sob’s but they will. 

After you get it all sorted out get a Cummins......

And I’m a Ford guy.....


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## lone wolf (Mar 26, 2019)

Jed1124 said:


> They should fix everything under warranty. You’ll have to fight the sob’s but they will.
> 
> After you get it all sorted out get a Cummins......
> 
> And I’m a Ford guy.....


I have a 750 with a Cummins in it.


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## Nick Kent (Mar 26, 2019)

That’s why I bought a 6.2 gas.


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## Jed1124 (Mar 26, 2019)

lone wolf said:


> I have a 750 with a Cummins in it.



Can’t beat em, especially after you delete em


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## ChoppyChoppy (Mar 26, 2019)

$15k isn't too bad if that is including labor. (Yes I know, it's frigging nuts, but somehow that's a "normal" cost!... Hell most of the vehicles I've owned never cost that much even!)


My buddy has an 08 F350 that needs a new 6.4L, looking at $20k for it.


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## catbuster (Mar 28, 2019)

I’m sorry you’re having those problems. Methinks the prior owner ran the dog piss out of that truck and you bought something ready to let go. I can’t say I’ve had those problems of any of those motors. Especially not with that few miles.

It also seems like your dealer is trying to screw you. The price for a new engine seems right, but at 74,000 there shouldn’t be a reason for a new block. I also think they should have finished their teardown before they called you multiple times with each time being worse. That seems fishy to me. Maybe it’s because I have mine trained to call me once, once they have everything sorted, or because we do most maintenance in house.

Chevy builds a really good truck right now, IFS or not. Dodge has gotten a lot better with their HD trucks over the last five years or so but I’m still leary of buying one and that’s what I tell everyone who asks. Dodge has had issues for a long time with building a crappy truck around a great engine in the Cummins or HEMI.

My next truck will be either a Ford or a Chevy. And I’m pretty hard to convince away from Caterpillar/Ford/PACCAR (Peterbilt & Kenworth) /Case for equipment. A lot of guys like Dodge trucks... That drag around camper trailers. I see a lot of 3500s rolling on giant tires that are pavement queens. They also seem to attract the loud mouthed pipeliner crowd. While most of the pickup trucks I see working are Ford or Chevy. I’m just making an observation.


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## moresnow (Apr 2, 2019)

What a Sh_tshow. We have used the F350 diesels for work since 08. Never had a catastrophic engine failure. 3 trucks at a time. 2 in service and one queen that steps in if needed. These trucks are purchased new. They get hooked to 30 foot gooseneck trailer's immediately. 99% of the miles are fully loaded. Loads of 20-26,000 lbs is common. Likely not always legal. Shhh. 100,000 miles is the absolute longest any have been kept. The 08 model was starting to cause trouble at 80,000. Tried to milk it out but gave up as the small nickel and dime BS didn't work commercially. Gone! Moved up.
Around us all the guys with trouble are the ones using the truck to grab grocery's! I think these trucks need to run under load to keep them together? Not sure. Seems counterintuitive but?
Sorry to hear of your troubles. Best of luck with getting back up and running.


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## waross (Apr 2, 2019)

I'm with everyone else in here. Cummins is the way to go. Been building diesel engines for 100 years as of this year. Started downsizing them for this market back in late 70's. Plus I grew up in Columbus, Indiana and my dad was an engineer on the project. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Deleted member 117362 (Apr 2, 2019)

Cummins, I will pass. Motor may be ok, but trucks rust out fast around here.


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## 4seasons (Apr 2, 2019)

moresnow said:


> We have used the F350 diesels for work since 08. Never had a catastrophic engine failure. 3 trucks at a time. 2 in service and one queen that steps in if needed. These trucks are purchased new. They get hooked to 30 foot gooseneck trailer's immediately. 99% of the miles are fully loaded. Loads of 20-26,000 lbs is common. Likely not always legal. Shhh. 100,000 miles is the absolute longest any have been kept.


Over by 100k? Sounds like you are providing my point. Cummins typically go 300k before little things go bad and commonly go 500k before an inframe. Of course I come from a world of 500hp Cat C-15s that I have seen several go over 1million miles without problems. I put 1.5 million on a Detroit 60 in a 94 FLD on the original bottom end before the tranny broke a mainshaft and I stopped driving it.

I have heard about the rust issues on other brands before, but I have seen a few rusted out Fords over the years also. I have a Chevy that needs new cab corners, but the previous owners didn't keep it clean and painted. I'll take a fresh undercoat every 5-10 years over a new engine under 100k miles any day.


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## catbuster (Apr 2, 2019)

4seasons said:


> Over by 100k? Sounds like you are providing my point. Cummins typically go 300k before little things go bad and commonly go 500k before an inframe. Of course I come from a world of 500hp Cat C-15s that I have seen several go over 1million miles without problems. I put 1.5 million on a Detroit 60 in a 94 FLD on the original bottom end before the tranny broke a mainshaft and I stopped driving it.
> 
> I have heard about the rust issues on other brands before, but I have seen a few rusted out Fords over the years also. I have a Chevy that needs new cab corners, but the previous owners didn't keep it clean and painted. I'll take a fresh undercoat every 5-10 years over a new engine under 100k miles any day.



If you use a one ton hard in commercial use it’s about done, or it needs a lot of work around 100,000 miles, regardless of if it has an ISB, Powerstroke or Duramax. Think about what a one ton does in industry. Cold start, usually little warm up, run out, shut off, start again, run hard, shut off, these things get thermal cycled to death. Clessie Cummins himself would tell you not to expect much life.

The T800 we have has a 3406 in it, and it’s great, even tuned up a fair ways to 600. But the truck around it is built essentially to be flogged. I expect to do 300,000 before an in frame. Admittedly, this truck is mostly a lowboy hauler and drags around Cat 345s & D8s in one piece. I’ve driven a bunch of trucks with Series 60s in them, damn fine power plant. The ISX15 is probably the best power plant on the market for a new truck now that Cat is not in on-highway anymore. 

But what you get in a class 8 truck doesn’t translate to one ton trucks. They all die prematurely.


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## moresnow (Apr 3, 2019)

4seasons said:


> Over by 100k? Sounds like you are providing my point.



Let me elaborate a bit. The trucks are far from done in any way shape or form. The trade value at this point is good. They still look almost new except for the box interior.

Also. The value of shiny new looking hardware on jobsites has proven itself in this business many times over. Inspectors love contractors who run nice equipment. It reflects well on your quality of work. Many times they roll there eyes at contractors with tough looking equipment. Human nature I guess! I didn't write the rules. Soo.... No offense to contractors doing excellent work with far less than new. I know your out there. I was one once. A entirely different topic Carry on!


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## muddstopper (Apr 3, 2019)

Do yourself a favor if they fix the truck. Ask for all the old parts, dont leave nothing behind. I had a chevy 2500 I took to the dealer to have a leaking manifold gasket replaced. They claimed the mainfold was cracked and put on a new one. $600 parts and labor. I asked for the old manifold and couldnt see any crack. took manifold to machine shop and had it magnafluxed. No crack. I went back to the dealer and told them what I found, while there I then called the fleet administrator in charge of taking care of mainenance. Then shop guy and dealer guy did a little talking and I dont know what was said, but I do know the bill was adjusted. I also got orders from the fleet administrator not to take any more trucks to that chevy dealership. We probably ran 100 trucks a year thru that dealership for service. That all came to a end because of one case of price gougeing.


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## 300zx_tt (Apr 4, 2019)

moresnow said:


> Let me elaborate a bit. The trucks are far from done in any way shape or form. The trade value at this point is good. They still look almost new except for the box interior.
> 
> Also. The value of shiny new looking hardware on jobsites has proven itself in this business many times over. Inspectors love contractors who run nice equipment. It reflects well on your quality of work. Many times they roll there eyes at contractors with tough looking equipment. Human nature I guess! I didn't write the rules. Soo.... No offense to contractors doing excellent work with far less than new. I know your out there. I was one once. A entirely different topic Carry on!



That’s the truth, when I’m in my pos flatbed (92 f350 with 349k on it) and pull up to a supply place or home depot/Lowe’s people look at you different than if you pull up in a nice clean shiny utility body truck. 



muddstopper said:


> Do yourself a favor if they fix the truck. Ask for all the old parts, dont leave nothing behind. I had a chevy 2500 I took to the dealer to have a leaking manifold gasket replaced. They claimed the mainfold was cracked and put on a new one. $600 parts and labor. I asked for the old manifold and couldnt see any crack. took manifold to machine shop and had it magnafluxed. No crack. I went back to the dealer and told them what I found, while there I then called the fleet administrator in charge of taking care of mainenance. Then shop guy and dealer guy did a little talking and I dont know what was said, but I do know the bill was adjusted. I also got orders from the fleet administrator not to take any more trucks to that chevy dealership. We probably ran 100 trucks a year thru that dealership for service. That all came to a end because of one case of price gougeing.




I pulled it out of the dealership, ford wasn’t going to help me out with any of the repair work so no need to pay dealership premiums. 

The shop it’s at now is documenting everything and I’ll be stopping by a few times during the week to check up on it. 

Unfortunately the long block carries a $3,000 core charge, short blocks are about $2,000. The heads are $1,000 core charges I believe.


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## 4seasons (Apr 4, 2019)

300zx_tt said:


> That’s the truth, when I’m in my pos flatbed (92 f350 with 349k on it) and pull up to a supply place or home depot/Lowe’s people look at you different than if you pull up in a nice clean shiny utility body truck.


That would be the difference between you and me. I don't care what people think and I get real noisy when I get funny looks.
Besides the money I saved on the truck will but lots of stuff at the supply house. They never see my truck before I pull it up to load the stuff I have bought anyway. 
In all honesty I have the cab corners to fix my rust issues and a paint gun to make my 90 K2500 shiny once I get a few other more pressing projects done.


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## 4seasons (Apr 4, 2019)

catbuster said:


> If you use a one ton hard in commercial use it’s about done, or it needs a lot of work around 100,000 miles, regardless of if it has an ISB, Powerstroke or Duramax. Think about what a one ton does in industry. Cold start, usually little warm up, run out, shut off, start again, run hard, shut off, these things get thermal cycled to death.


I drove for a small company that ran everything from Chevy Astro vans up to long nose Petes. I hauled an 1600 lbs pallet on an 1000 mile trip one way on an Astro Van one weekend and had to be back by Monday morning for my regular route to show you how hard we ran. Saw a PowerStroke go 300k before it spit a piston out the side of the block. The 4x4 Dodge had to have the front axle redone around 200k but the Cummins was still pulling strong past 300k. The 2wd Dodge needed front ball joints every 150k but the last time I drove it I ran off and left a Miata on an uphill curvy road with 350k on the Cummins. Someone ran it off a bridge later that year.
To be fair my normal truck was F650 with a Cummins that had the head redone at 100k while it was in the shop for a tooth missing on the flywheel. I did haul between 10k-30k of cargo on this 26k GVWR truck about once a week. I know that is why the driveshaft went and could have affected the engine also. I blame the fuel delivery issues and the crappy air conditioner on Ford though.


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## 300zx_tt (Apr 15, 2019)

New motor came in last Friday. Should be in this week and I’ll be 11k deeper into this truck when I get the keys back...


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## Gugi47 (Apr 15, 2019)

GMC is the way to go.
Great trucks with great diesel engines.
Many have over 500K with no problems.

Just for reference....And is last then 65K.


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## waross (Apr 15, 2019)

Gugi47 said:


> GMC is the way to go.
> Great trucks with great diesel engines.
> Many have over 500K with no problems.
> 
> Just for reference....And is last then 65K.


Guigi47, I have come to love and respect you for the daily posts you normally make on another thread. But going for a duramax over a Cummins. HA HA. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Gugi47 (Apr 15, 2019)

waross said:


> Guigi47, I have come to love and respect you for the daily posts you normally make on another thread. But going for a duramax over a Cummins. HA HA.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk



I have to go with the facts, with today's fact.
Cummings use to be great.....use to be.
Duramax, today is better.
I would not pay my money for something what WAS good.
I personally own a Toyota Tundra Limited Edition. I have no need for anything big. I tow only my boat.
But if I would, That would be the GMC Denali. That is my opinion.


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## DSW (Apr 15, 2019)

300zx_tt said:


> New motor came in last Friday. Should be in this week and I’ll be 11k deeper into this truck when I get the keys back...



Jeez, hopefully that's the end of it.

I could buy two 7.3's for that.


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## Streblerm (Apr 16, 2019)

I don’t mess with diesels any more, gas motors only. IMO The expense of maintenance, fuel, repairs and the premium you pay up front will never be overcome by the economy and extra power you get with the diesels. YMMV but that has been my experience with a number of diesels over the years. Never had a Cummins but pretty much everything else going all the way back to the 5.7 olds motors. 

The 5.4l in my superduty is certainly no powerhouse but has pulled anything I asked it to even over its limit. It just takes a little bit to get it going. 170k miles and still going strong, but slow. It’s funny, every diesel guy I know says the same thing. “These motors are great once you put $10k into them.” For that much money I can buy 3 long blocks.


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## 300zx_tt (Apr 16, 2019)

DSW said:


> Jeez, hopefully that's the end of it.
> 
> I could buy two 7.3's for that.




I could buy my flatbed 7.3 19x over for the money I have in this truck!! Hahaha

But I can’t show up to bid $125k additions in a sub $3k truck.


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## 12ram2500 (Apr 18, 2019)

I've worked on vehicles since I was a small kid and I still do professionally I honestly cant stand all this praise for the durmax you guys do know there made by isuzu right? Just like the older Colorados and canyons are isuzu powerstrokes were international engines up until ford started making the 6.7 in house if your looking for a diesel it's a powerstroke in a ford or a Cummings in a ram or a Nissan titan is the way to go not to mention the horrible bedside door fender cab corner rust of the gm product I've seen lots of 6.7s and this is the odd man out they were throwing rods in the early versions I'm sure someone didnt do proper maintenance or improper repair work and beat the snot out of it for it to give up the ghost just had a 6.7 in at work with over 300 thousand on it all original engine all my opinion though


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## catbuster (Apr 18, 2019)

I want to clarify this... I don’t judge a truck by the engine and only by the engine. The truck is a sum of its parts, the engine being only one. Ford has built the best *truck* without the best *engine* for a long time now. The 7.3 Powerstroke was a dog that just happened to be dependable and in a great *truck.* Anybody remember the Dodge trucks from that time period with the 5.9 6BT? I sure do. Lots of automatic transmission problems, rust and electrical issues. Not problems I saw with Ford or Chevy/GM trucks of the time. They all rode like ****, and the GM trucks were dogs on power and rusted as bad as the Dodge trucks.

Then Ford started using the six liter Navistar engine. Great trucks, bad motor if not taken care of. Still, Dodge was having transmission problems and GM... Well, they built an adequate product. Then came the days of stupid power numbers starting with the 6.4 liter PSD, which was a good engine still in a good truck. Towards the end of its run Dodge started putting the 6.7 ISB in its trucks, and it was cool. GM still built an adequate product.

Then we get close to where we are now. 6.7 ISB, 6.7 PSD and the 6.6 Duramax. The 6.7 ISB is a great engine. But Dodge still hasn’t caught up to Ford or GM on the stuff around it. Then we have the V8 vs I6 debate. An I6 will have a better torque curve for pulling heavier loads, but most commercial guys have bigger trucks for heavy stuff. So... The V8 wins out in accelerating and getting around because it builds RPM faster. Right now GM builds the best riding truck, Ford does okay, and Dodge trucks ride like crap in comparison. All three of them are probably adequate, especially since Dodge went to the AISIN transmission.

I know this thread is about a guy getting screwed on engine repairs but there is way more that differentiates these brands than the engines. All the Cummins guys are probably right when they say the have the best engine. Don’t trash the Duramax for being an Isuzu design, that company has been building diesels for a long time and are known for fuel economy and longevity. Then, well, Ford got it right with the early 6.7 PSD and everything else has been a downhill slide as far as being able to work on them.

As far as the Nissan Titan... Well, let me just say I was not impressed when I tried to use the demo unit to do stuff I’d ask any of the other 3/4 tons to do. That is all.


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## 12ram2500 (Apr 18, 2019)

Everything has pros and cons that's just life but I'm sure once this engine is swapped itll last him the rest of the service life he intends for it


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## 300zx_tt (Apr 19, 2019)

^^ new motor is in.




The worst of the lifters on the left, the best of the lifters on the right. You can see the diameter of the roller on the left is tiny compared to the one on the right.





The worst lobe on the cam shaft on the passenger side 


So what we think happened is the oil feed tube that lubes the lifters broke (we think from a manufacturing defect) right on top of cylinder 3. Pretty sure the last lifter wasn’t getting any oil, so it was just grinding itself on the cam. Must have been getting some oil just not enough because it wasn’t making any crazy noises


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## boltonranger (Apr 19, 2019)

Oh my.
That cam lobe looks awful.
I noticed you believe manufacturing defect. Does Ford agree?
If so- is there absolutely nothing they can do for you, other than lighten your wallet?

What I’m getting at is, do the problems pre-date the end of your warranty?


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## 300zx_tt (Apr 20, 2019)

boltonranger said:


> Oh my.
> That cam lobe looks awful.
> I noticed you believe manufacturing defect. Does Ford agree?
> If so- is there absolutely nothing they can do for you, other than lighten your wallet?
> ...




We believe a manufacturing defect because of the break. Very clean and no marks on it, we originally though a pushrod did it but the oil feed line is 2x as thick as a pushrod, and there’s no marks on it where it got hit by something. He said probably on a really cold start one morning the cold oil getting forced through there just broke it off. 

Ford made it very clear, they would do nothing for me. The only way I’ll get anything from them is through small claims court.

I asked the mechanic how long it would take that lifter to look like that, he said said that it’s imposible to put a time on it, what they could do is put a mileage number on it. He said 100% it happened before the warranty was up, based on the size of the worn lifter.


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## boltonranger (Apr 20, 2019)

Hmmm. 
Is this Ford doing the autopsy and engine replacement?


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## 4seasons (Apr 20, 2019)

boltonranger said:


> Hmmm.
> Is this Ford doing the autopsy and engine replacement?


I go back to what I said earlier about customer value score. That sounds exactly like the Chinese Government putting a social media score on it's citizens based on how much they suck up to the communist. If Ford has screwed you long enough and for enough money than they may let you get a free one this time so they can keep screwing you in the future.

Unfortunately, we aren't millionaires so we can pay lawyers a million dollars to take thousands out of Ford's pocket so they will quit doing this crap.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## 300zx_tt (Apr 20, 2019)

boltonranger said:


> Hmmm.
> Is this Ford doing the autopsy and engine replacement?




No way, you think a dealership would let me be there and take the head off? 

The dealership it was at told me they’d yank the motor and send it back whole. When I asked if they’d take the head off they said it’s 4 hours at 139/hr. 
The mechanic I’m at now, I watched him pull the head in about 5 minutes...


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## 300zx_tt (Apr 20, 2019)

4seasons said:


> I go back to what I said earlier about customer value score. That sounds exactly like the Chinese Government putting a social media score on it's citizens based on how much they suck up to the communist. If Ford has screwed you long enough and for enough money than they may let you get a free one this time so they can keep screwing you in the future.
> 
> Unfortunately, we aren't millionaires so we can pay lawyers a million dollars to take thousands out of Ford's pocket so they will quit doing this crap.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk




Small claims case in PA costs $75 bucks to file...


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## 4seasons (Apr 20, 2019)

300zx_tt said:


> Small claims case in PA costs $75 bucks to file...


I am not a lawyer nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. So check what I am saying as it is not legal advice:
I think small claims court only handles up to $10000 cases. But even then Ford will show up with a staff of lawyers and you can't get a judge to take you serious without one. That is when the lawyer will take you for more money than the case is worth. I would like to see a actual justice system in this country rather than the circus we currently have.


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## DSW (Apr 23, 2019)

300zx_tt said:


> But I can’t show up to bid $125k additions in a sub $3k truck.



Says who? 

I get what you're saying, people do make judgments about appearances, to me a work truck is a work truck. The less it stays out of my wallet, the better.


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## DSW (Apr 23, 2019)

catbuster said:


> The 7.3 Powerstroke was a dog that just happened to be dependable and in a great *truck.*



You might wanna do some reading up on International. 

They didn't just happen to put out a dependable engine.


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## catbuster (Apr 23, 2019)

DSW said:


> You might wanna do some reading up on International.
> 
> They didn't just happen to put out a dependable engine.



I think you’re misinterpreting that post. I’ve used plenty of trucks & equipment powered by a DT466 and their over the road engines are good. International builds a good engine, and used to build some really good heavy equipment. But the 7.3, for its displacement, was pretty disappointing in that application. They lasted a long time, but they weren’t very powerful despite being good on fuel for its displacement.


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## 300zx_tt (Apr 23, 2019)

DSW said:


> Says who?
> 
> I get what you're saying, people do make judgments about appearances, to me a work truck is a work truck. The less it stays out of my wallet, the better.




Unfortunately that’s Part of the game, when I’m getting prices from roofing subs and they pull up in a Camry with a wheelbarrow in the front seat or a beat ass f250 leaking oil, It’s gonna be a no go from me.


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## DSW (Apr 23, 2019)

catbuster said:


> I think you’re misinterpreting that post. I’ve used plenty of trucks & equipment powered by a DT466 and their over the road engines are good. International builds a good engine, and used to build some really good heavy equipment. But the 7.3, for its displacement, was pretty disappointing in that application. They lasted a long time, but they weren’t very powerful despite being good on fuel for its displacement.



I got ya, the way you worded it made it sound like they got lucky and put out a dependable engine. 

Think about the times, when the 7.3 came out there weren't comparable engines pushing 500 hp and 1000 ft lbs. We're talking gas engines that put out abysmal numbers, some of those trucks pushing 25,000 lbs of weight. I think you're having trouble forgetting about what has come since.





300zx_tt said:


> Unfortunately that’s Part of the game, when I’m getting prices from roofing subs and they pull up in a Camry with a wheelbarrow in the front seat or a beat ass f250 leaking oil, It’s gonna be a no go from me.



Is there not something in between? I'd say your clean square body there would fall right in between.


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## catbuster (Apr 23, 2019)

DSW said:


> I got ya, the way you worded it made it sound like they got lucky and put out a dependable engine.
> 
> Think about the times, when the 7.3 came out there weren't comparable engines pushing 500 hp and 1000 ft lbs. We're talking gas engines that put out abysmal numbers, some of those trucks pushing 25,000 lbs of weight. I think you're having trouble forgetting about what has come since.
> 
> ...



As the owner of a 2002 F-350, the Dodge trucks of that era drive as far as acceleration and better with anything more than 10,000 lbs behind them (when the transmission is in one piece), and the Navistar six liters drive better with those same loads. The 7.3 is dependable, and has been for over 375,000 miles now, never leaving me stranded anywhere. Admittedly, it’s had the injectors every 125,000 or so, but that’s due for any engine at that point, and other general PMs. But it is not something that goes anywhere in a hurry, even with a 3” pipe straight back from the turbo. They have a big bore/short stroke and have to build up some rpm before they make much power, it’s just the nature of the beast with that engine. 

I don’t like how much power the new trucks put out, it’s wasted, and the wheels spin too easily unloaded. I think 300/650 out of an engine with a long stroke is a good compromise to move the truck & trailer. I really don’t like the fact I can have a GCVWR that requires a class A in a 3/4 or 1 ton now. Sure the truck will move it but if the trailer brakes go it’s game over unless the ground is flat. 

As far as appearance? If that square body is clean, runs well, and sounds okay I would take it to any bid. Very few residential customers know the difference between a new truck and an old one. They will notice the difference between a ratty POS and a well kept truck. Commercial guys, especially those with similar vehicles know better, but if they’re any good at business they’ll understand that the end product is what matters and will recognize you take care of your equipment.


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## 300zx_tt (Apr 25, 2019)

DSW said:


> Is there not something in between? I'd say your clean square body there would fall right in between.



Those are real vehicles people came to bid a ~$25k slate roof repair/ replace. I’ve had people take the bus or the train to bid rough plumb ins for whole houses we were building... bottom line is people care what you drive most of the time, it reflects on you as a business owner. My firewood customers wouldn’t care if I showed up in a brand new f550 dump or I was in $600 beat f150. As long as my price and quality of wood were the same. But that’s not how it is in the construction industry.


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## 12ram2500 (May 4, 2019)

Nothing from the OP in a while hows she running now ?


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## 300zx_tt (May 4, 2019)

Got it back the 30th of April, that’s the first receipt. Second is from the previous owner, note the mileage in both. 63k for the fuel system and 74k for the long block. So in the past 11,000 miles this truck has had $20,000 worth of work. Pretty wild for a 2014 if you ask me. 

The truck itself is fine, it’s exactly what I had before I dumped 11,000 dollars in it. I have pulled over 4 times since I got it back because I thought I heard a clang or bang, some other weird noise... I’m paranoid about it breaking again. I don’t want to have to put another dime into this freaking truck other than oil changes and fuel filters. 

I might sell it, I’m into this thing pretty deep so I’ll loose money on it but honestly it’s been a headache since day one and I have a bad taste in my mouth from it.


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## VirginiaIron (Jul 7, 2019)

I feel for you and Im a Ford man too, that is why I am hesitant to buy a new truck. Bought this '86/6.9 in 2006 from a friend & original owner with 40k miles on it. Ive put a little work into it, not much. I just spent $1k on tires-14/18 mpg hwy.


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## blades (Jul 8, 2019)

wish i still had my 6.9 but the red death took everything except the drive train.


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## VirginiaIron (Jul 8, 2019)

blades said:


> wish i still had my 6.9 but the red death took everything except the drive train.


Im having a few areas starting over the years. I might see if there are cab/ body-swap mods, but Im getting tired. So, I am mindful of the reputations of the new/er trucks- keeping my pennies in hand. But, I will never buy the first two years of the technology because I do not want to be their test platform like so many of the newer 6.s. And, looking at the newer payloads and fuel mileage of the gassers against all of the sensitivities of the diesels, makes me think the newer diesels are for suckers.


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## farmer steve (Jul 8, 2019)

VirginiaIron said:


> Im having a few areas starting over the years. I might see if there are cab/ body-swap mods, but Im getting tired. So, I am mindful of the reputations of the new/er trucks- keeping my pennies in hand. But, I will never buy the first two years of the technology because I do not want to be their test platform like so many of the newer 6.s. And, looking at the newer payloads and fuel mileage of the gassers against all of the sensitivities of the diesels, makes me think the newer diesels are for suckers.


Yep sold my 250 diesel and bought a gasser. Don't notice much in towing but I like the 50 cents a gallon difference in fuel price at fill up.


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## blades (Jul 8, 2019)

they work pretty well once you delete the epa stuff- which is causing most of the problems- course in the 6.4 they have the HPOP pushed to the ragged edge. Removing the sulfur content of the fuel didn't help anyone ( sulfur = lubricant) I ran a F350 v10 for about 15 years ( 1999 version) Exhaust Manifold bolts and egr valve failure ( common industry wide) it was a tough rig the only thing the diesel at the time (7.3 turbo) had an advantage at was long haul towing. Other than that the hp and torque were within in a few ft lbs of each other. I never had any spark plug failures or blow outs. I have an 04 F250 6.0 deleted main problem there is front end got to rebuild it including power steering pump and gear box apx 180k on that one. 06 f250 5.4 engine ok red death on the rest of it 160k. The road de-icing agents are insidious as the just vapor is highly corrosive. Gets into nooks and crannies that you can't seal or wash.


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## 4seasons (Jul 9, 2019)

blades said:


> course in the 6.4 they have the HPOP pushed to the ragged edge.


What is HPOP?


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## 300zx_tt (Jul 9, 2019)

4seasons said:


> What is HPOP?



High pressure oil pump


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