# Looking for felling advice - is this the proper forum?



## flashhole (Dec 18, 2011)

I live in upstate NY and have a small 30 acre farm, about 18 acres cleard and the rest hardwood forest. I have been cleaning up a lot of storm damaged trees and have one big Hickory leaning on two other trees. The trees is leaning at about a 30 degree angle and the upper branches are wedging it between two other trees. I will get a photo when I can but I'm looking for advice as to how to fell this bad boy and not get into trouble.

Any advice?


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## lone wolf (Dec 18, 2011)

flashhole said:


> I live in upstate NY and have a small 30 acre farm, about 18 acres cleard and the rest hardwood forest. I have been cleaning up a lot of storm damaged trees and have one big Hickory leaning on two other trees. The trees is leaning at about a 30 degree angle and the upper branches are wedging it between two other trees. I will get a photo when I can but I'm looking for advice as to how to fell this bad boy and not get into trouble.
> 
> Any advice?



Drop it and then come along it out while you are at a safe distance using chain or cable.


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## flashhole (Dec 18, 2011)

Can you suggest a comealong? This bad boy is big and heavy.


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## justme23005 (Dec 18, 2011)

Where upstate are you? If you are close, I would be happy to come take it down for you. I'm not far from Albany.


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## lone wolf (Dec 18, 2011)

flashhole said:


> Can you suggest a comealong? This bad boy is big and heavy.



a 3 ton heavy duty chain type.


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## flashhole (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm in Owego, NY, about 20 miles west of Binghamton. I don't expect anyone to take the tree down for me, just looking for pointers on how to do it safely.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Dec 19, 2011)

I was doing a logging job for my neighbor last year, and had gotten a 110' tulip tree hung up in another massive tulip tree. I tried everything including 2 3 ton comalongs. Nothing would pull this tree out. I ended up using a 1.5" twisted rope and and big track hoe ( had to pay for permits to move it over the road). I have never seen a rope stretch that much. It look like it was only about 3/4" - 1" diam when pulling on it at full power. But lucky it work, and the tree finally gave up and pulled down.


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## VA-Sawyer (Dec 19, 2011)

Hung trees are some of the more deadly work that tree guys do. If you have a pro willing to come and help drop that tree, take advantage of it. Might be the best investment you make all year.
Rick


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## justme23005 (Dec 19, 2011)

Its hard to tell what the safest way to get it down would be, without at least seeing a pic. Generally, you get a rope around the tree & pull it down. Put the line about 2/3 of the way up the tree, hook it to a decent-sized truck or tractor & pull it down... IF there's room. Most of my bull ropes that I use are around 100 feet long. If I have to yank on it, or do anything too stupid, I have a 100 feet of 1 1/4" line that's rated for 20,000 pounds that I use.


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## flashhole (Dec 19, 2011)

I will try and get a picture posted tomorrow. Thanks for all the inputs so far.


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## flashhole (Dec 22, 2011)

The first pic shows the lean angle. The hill slopes down and away.

The secod pic shows how the top is wedged between two other trees.

Any advice on how to get this thing down?


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 22, 2011)

Looks like you could climb a tree next to it and piece it out.
Jeff


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## flashhole (Dec 22, 2011)

That may have been an option 20 years ago but not today.


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## lfnh (Dec 22, 2011)

What's the biggest piece of pulling equipment you canget in there ?


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## AT sawyer (Dec 22, 2011)

Looks like unsound wood on one side of it and too high to cut above it. Hickory is tight grained though, so you might have enough good wood to begin a vertical top cut and wedge in behind it. Maximum compression will be halfway up, so wedging low could hold your kerf and not spit the wedges. Finish with an offset undercut and it should break and drop straight down. Once off the stump, just piece it out or use that come-a-long to pull it loose. Got a hardhat?

Pic is of a big hung up locust with similar stump rot in a wilderness area. Good ol' misery whip keeps me at arms length from the drop.




View attachment 212816


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 22, 2011)

flashhole said:


> That may have been an option 20 years ago but not today.



Oh really, 
Do you care to elaborate or just ignore my option? 
Jeff


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## flashhole (Dec 22, 2011)

Too old and too fat. No brag, just fact! :smile2:


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## Fireaxman (Dec 25, 2011)

VA-Sawyer said:


> Hung trees are some of the more deadly work that tree guys do. If you have a pro willing to come and help drop that tree, take advantage of it. Might be the best investment you make all year.
> Rick



True. 

What shape is the tree in? Is it dead, or alive? If dead, how long, is it getting brittle yet?

A rope around the crown, a snatch block (pulley) at the base of a tree under the crown, and a tractor up on the hill may draw the crown in close enough to get it down between the two trees it is hung up in, especially if the limbs are either brittle enough to break or limber enough to draw together.

Cutting it at the stump without piecing it down from a neighboring tree can be very dangerous. If there is any "Springpole" effect, hard to tell what direction, how far, and with how much force the trunk will jump. Trunk might also twist (in this case, I would say "Probably Twist") in the final stages of the cut, possibly trapping your saw.

How badly do you need to get it down? Is it a hazard to anything? Is it an option to just girdle it (kill it) and let it self-prune? If it drys out for a year or 2 it might get brittle enough that the wind movement of the trees it is hung up in will break off the offending branches and it will either fall or you can cut it down more safely.


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## flashhole (Dec 26, 2011)

The tree was blown over in a huge storm last spring along with 11 other large trees. I think there was a family of down blasts with tornado-like power. Made a heck of a mess and the storm took power out for several days over most of this area. This is the last one I have to harvest. I would call it recently dead.

Leaving it up is an option as far as location goes, it's out of the way but looks bad. The trees it is wedged in are stressed pretty hard, it's actually a single tree with two trunks. My fear is it will break one leg of the two during the next storm. Now is the time to get it before the other trees leaf out in the spring.


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## treeman75 (Dec 26, 2011)

Home owners should not try to do tree work. If you dont know how to do a tree like that you have no business even trying. You WILL get hurt or killed! Call a pro it would probly only cost you a couple hundred bucks to get it on the ground. Its cheaper than a hospital bill or your funeral. I see it every year, last year four home ownes got killed around here. Besides, your too old and fat!


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## flashhole (Dec 26, 2011)

Give a bit of credit. The only thing I'm shying away from is climbing the thing and cutting out the top.


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## utilityman (Dec 26, 2011)

Judging by the pictures it looks like its a sugar maple to me. That tree is not hung up too bad. It looks like there is a trail/road next to the tree which you want to take down. Can you get a couple of logging chains and pull the butt off sideways? If not can you use a heavy bullrope and re-direct the pull sideways with a block to pull the butt off? If you do not have sufficient experence felling dangerous trees like this I would not recommend getting near the butt with a saw. Weigh your options and call a professional if you have any dought!


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 26, 2011)

If you're not in a rush I can help you out. Based on the pics, probably a hundred bucks. Might even be able to just give you pointers to guide you through it if I'm there in person watching you. I'm always up for a good barter too if that's what your looking for. Send me a pm, I'm in Binghamton and will soon be moving to Owego.


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## Grouchy old man (Dec 26, 2011)

flashhole said:


> Give a bit of credit. The only thing I'm shying away from is climbing the thing and cutting out the top.



Credit for what? The only reason you aren't afraid is because you don't know what can happen. That's what gets people in trouble or killed.


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## flashhole (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks for your advice but if I didn't know the kind of things that can happen and the dangers involved I wouldn't be here on this forum looking for pointers.


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## treeman75 (Dec 26, 2011)

Blakesmaster said:


> If you're not in a rush I can help you out. Based on the pics, probably a hundred bucks. Might even be able to just give you pointers to guide you through it if I'm there in person watching you. I'm always up for a good barter too if that's what your looking for. Send me a pm, I'm in Binghamton and will soon be moving to Owego.



Now that sounds like a good deal, Blakes is offering to come help ya and show ya some pointers. Plus you get to meet a fellow AS member. You guys are all over out there. I think the closest one to me is five hours away.


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## DanW63 (Dec 30, 2011)

VA-Sawyer said:


> Hung trees are some of the more deadly work that tree guys do. If you have a pro willing to come and help drop that tree, take advantage of it. Might be the best investment you make all year.
> Rick



Sage advice from VA-Sawyer. At least have someone there with a cell phone and GPS so they can get rescue workers to you should things go all wrong. 

Being above the work makes it much harder for it to fall on you. If it was mine, I'd climb the other trees, secure the damaged tree in place and piece out the top until nothing was left but trunk - then decide what to do (go get the skid steer).

Plastic wedges are cheap.

You wisely mentioned safety. Whatever you do, make sure you are not in harm's way. The tree is not likely to kick back on you, but never say never. (If the top was gone, I'd feel a lot more comfortable saying it won't kick.)


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## flashhole (Dec 31, 2011)

Well I got it cut clear of the stump. It dropped only about 5 feet down, still hung up in the other tree but is much less stressed. The trunk jumped out about 2 feet to the side from the stress on the base. At least now it's in a position I feel comfortable working (read safer) to piece it out. I will be using the AT Sawyer technique shown in his photo. Thanks for all the input.


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## DanW63 (Dec 31, 2011)

flashhole said:


> Well I got it cut clear of the stump. It dropped only about 5 feet down, still hung up in the other tree but is much less stressed. The trunk jumped out about 2 feet to the side from the stress on the base. At least now it's in a position I feel comfortable working (read safer) to piece it out. I will be using the AT Sawyer technique shown in his photo. Thanks for all the input.




Sounds like you have a good start on it. Even though it seems that the tricky part is done, don't stop being cautious.


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## AT sawyer (Dec 31, 2011)

flashhole said:


> Well I got it cut clear of the stump. It dropped only about 5 feet down, still hung up in the other tree but is much less stressed. The trunk jumped out about 2 feet to the side from the stress on the base. At least now it's in a position I feel comfortable working (read safer) to piece it out. I will be using the AT Sawyer technique shown in his photo. Thanks for all the input.



Now that it's on the ground, you can work over it rather than under it. You'll have to deal with more end bind as you walk it toward the tree it's hung in. Now's when you want that Maasdam come-a-long to pull it loose from a safe distance.


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## VA-Sawyer (Dec 31, 2011)

flashhole said:


> Give a bit of credit. The only thing I'm shying away from is climbing the thing and cutting out the top.



After seeing pictures of the hangup, that is the only way I would try to deal with it. Like someone else said you need to be above it.

I wasn't there to see the actual event, but I have to say a few things about the picture that AT Sawyer posted, Wow, looks like a good way to get killed! That butt section could have side pressure pushing it towards the sawyer. It could travel that distance Dang quick and land on him or pin him to another tree.
I can't see a rope around the butt to hold it away from him, but that is the very least I would do. Now, it could be the tree was tightly shoved against another trunk that was keeping it from jumping at him, and that second tree was just out of frame on his right. I hope that was the case. 
AT, not tying to put you down, just could see possible real danger in picture, and wouldn't want anyone else to try it that way without more understanding of how it could go wrong. As I said before, hangs are the more tricky jobs we have to deal with. It takes a lot of time working with stressed wood, to get the skills needed to read it well, and even then, there are suprises. 
Rick


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## flashhole (Dec 31, 2011)

Which model Maasdam come-a-long were you referring to? I busted my cheapo come-a-long last year and need to replace it.

How does this one compare to the one you were thinking of?

Allied HEAVY DUTY DOUBLE GEARED 4-Ton Come Along(CABLE PULLER) at Arizona Tools

Any other suggestions for a come-along? Remember, I don't do this stuff for a living, just for firewood at the house.


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## avason (Dec 31, 2011)

*Nice...Nice
*


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## flashhole (Dec 31, 2011)

Rick

I fully understand the hazards. Thanks for the caution nonetheless. When I cut this one I was behind the tree it was pressing against. I just took my time and assessed and reassessed what was going on. I actually made the final cut-through with an axe. The trunk did move about 2 feet laterally as well as drop down but it moved away from me. I think 2 feet is a lot given how much it weighs. I could see it was under quite a bit of strain the way it was locked in and the creaking sounds it made when I was nibbling away at it were a tell-tale indicator it was going to pop with some authority. I always approach these situations with a lot of caution. The guy at our local Stihl outlet was not so fortunate, he took down a storm damaged tree in a similar scenario and it caught him before he could get out of the way. Broke his back in 9 places. He was layed up for a long time. He's lucky to be alive.


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## VA-Sawyer (Dec 31, 2011)

Glad you got it cut without injury. Thanks for making my point about the nasty suprises. I'm going to guess that the guy from the Stihl shop wasn't a greenhorn around saws.
Rick


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## AT sawyer (Dec 31, 2011)

The tree I was sawing was a locust, with its crown tightly hung up in a white oak and a good 40' of bare trunk between the butt and the first limb. I assessed that it would drop straight down, though I made my finish cut standing as far back as possible. It did in fact drop straight down and stayed tightly hung. I barely got it pulled free with a TU-17 Griphoist and a snatch block.

I watched for evidence of side tension in the kerf, but it stayed true and both wedges seemed to be equally tight.

I have a great respect for storm damaged blowdowns, but that's mostly what I cut on the trail crew, and usually with a crosscut saw. If I think the tree might jump, I'll drive my axe hard across the kerf before finishing the cut, as this will usually hold it for a moment. Using a crosscut is slower, but you hear every fiber pop and can be closer to ready when the drop occurs. 

I dislike basic come-a-longs, as the bail is limiting. The Maasdam is as long as you want to make it and can be beefed up with blocks.


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## VA-Sawyer (Dec 31, 2011)

Thanks AT. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but in this case, I think the words are more important. I respect your knowledge and skill, just didn't want someone to get hurt and be saying " I did it just like the guy in the photo". 
Rick


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## flashhole (Jan 7, 2012)

It's done ... and I still have all my body parts. Jan 7, 2012 is a beautiful day here in the Southern Tier of Upstate NY. Sunny and the temp is hovering around 50 degrees!!!! 

It took me about 5 hours to get it down and cut up into fireplace length pieces and hauled up out of the woods. AT's suggested method worked like a charm and I put 4 separate cuts in the timber, each about 4' of trunk length. Once I got to the fork in the tree it was easy. What surprised me was how far it burried itself in the ground each time it hit. Those wedges are worth many times their weight in gold.

Now it's time to drink some beer and B-B-Q some lamb chops on the grill.

Thanks everyone. And Happy New Year.


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