# The Descriptive Process



## slowp

Since we have started a new year, we should strive for a more positive outlook. The purpose of this thread is for

WHINING, as only foresters and loggers know how to do. But the new title puts a positive spin on our ordinary whining and therefore unwhines it.....

Continue on. What analytical processes did you go through today? 

My feet got wet today.


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## Gologit

I talked to a landowner yesterday about some logging. He wanted me to work miracles and pay me what amounted to less than break even. He got snotty when I mentioned this to him. He said that people up here just didn't understand cash flow and fiscal liquidity. I told him he was probably right but we sure as hell understand working for nothing.

He was from San Francisco... absentee owner type of guy. Wouldn't walk the sale with me because his LL Bean boots were, in his words "just too new".

I turned down the job and when he asked who else I knew I gave him the names of a couple of guys I don't like. They deserve each other.


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## slowp

How did that make you feel?


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## Gologit

.....but I didn't.


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## Oldtimer

I'm pissy because the hitch doesn't look as big as it really was....it was heavy enough to make it steer hard...nearly 2 cord. This was yesterday.

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## 2dogs

Cody and I helped a friend who doesn't know cattle to load a few calves for auction. Then I got a cortizone shot in my hand so hopefully I can make a fist again. I see the eye doctor tomorrow. All good.


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## redprospector

Descriptive process. Ok, let's give this a whirl.
Mechanic called this afternoon and said they found out what is wrong with my wife's jeep. Said it's only going to cost $750 to fix it. :msp_sad:
The other mechanic didn't call to tell me what progress he's made on my Bobcat that he's had for 2 months. :msp_angry:
I had to sit through a meeting tonight with a bunch of.......I had to sit through a meeting tonight. :msp_rolleyes:
To top it all off I feel like I'm coming down with a cold or something, feel like crap. :msp_sad:

Hey, I think I could get pretty good at this descriptive process stuff. 

Andy


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## RandyMac

I moved a ton, literally, of wood, my arms hurt. I wish I was 40 again.


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## Jacob J.

RandyMac said:


> I moved a ton, literally, of wood, my arms hurt.* I wish I was 40 again.*



That's on the very outer edges of the descriptive process.


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## twochains

It's raining this morning. So instead of logging I'm sawmilling, peeling and stacking ties


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## slowp

Jacob J. said:


> That's on the very outer edges of the descriptive process.



But still quite descriptive.


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## mile9socounty

I have a very pathetic man cold right now. Monday I felt the crude crawling up my back and sapping my energy. Foreman had me pulled off the hillside due to puking. The fever set in about 1700 on monday, got so warm I actually had to sit on the back porch for a few hours and cool off. Went to bed, slept, slept, slept some more. I still feel drained. Hell I ran out of chew monday night. Didnt get a new can until this morning. Im going to try and work, but we will see.


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## Samlock

RandyMac said:


> I moved a ton, literally, of wood, my arms hurt. I wish I was 40 again.



Maybe you should consider not to move it all at once.


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## Gologit

Samlock said:


> Maybe you should consider not to move it all at once.



It's the Logger Syndrome at it's finest...Why make three trips when one will do?


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## Joe46

The agency where I work received a request yesterday to turn one of our restrooms into a transgender restroom. Will that work for a descriptive process? Retiring on July 19th. Can't come soon enough!:bang:


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## slowp

The white death is spewing from the sky. No looting yet. Stay tuned...


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## Gologit

Joe46 said:


> The agency where I work received a request yesterday to turn one of our restrooms into a transgender restroom. Will that work for a descriptive process? Retiring on July 19th. Can't come soon enough!:bang:



Transgender restroom? They have special needs? Never mind, don't answer that. Some things, the less I know about the happier I'm gonna be. :msp_rolleyes:

And hang in there for the retirement. Retirement is like every day being Saturday.


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## madhatte

Joe46 said:


> transgender restroom



The hell?


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## Gologit

madhatte said:


> The hell?



What I'm wondering is what kind of symbol goes on the door. Or maybe just the word "whatever". Or "whomever".

Man, this is not one of the things I'd planned on thinking about this morning.


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## madhatte

That's just a weird passive-aggressive entitlement thing, I think. I know for sure I don't get it.


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## Joe46

I have stories. Hopefully after retirement I can make some of the get togethers.


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## 056 kid

90 dollars for a polo shirt and the fitment is absolute #### compared to a prison blues hickory thats less than half the price. ####ing Chinese ####ing bull####...


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## slowp

On retirement: I get bored some days, when the weather is bad, but I got bored some days at work. I prefer to be bored at home.

Today the weather is nasty, but I've got a good book, the fiddle, WII exercising, and annoying to be done in the Off Topic Forum. 

White death on, white death changes to rain then back to white death. 


I too am puzzled about a transgender bathroom, but my head would hurt if I thought about it too much.
In some places, there is only one bathroom and it must be shared by all. Maybe that's the answer?


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## RandyMac

I dealt with the local Tax collector/Assessor's office over property taxes, I speak fluent Bureaucratic and turned their words against them. After 20 minutes of a twisting, circular conversation, they saw it my way and cut a full third off my tax bill.
Our local credit union got eaten by another outfit, they gave very little notice and screwed up everything. So I annoyed them with a flurry of e-mails, phone calls and after seeing a couple dozen people standing in the rain, waiting to go in, I called and made an appointment for the dreaded personal visit. Bastards!
The ton of wood was fuel for the pelletstove, had to stack it in the shed, on top of the half ton already there. 50 40# semi-droopy bags, lift, carry and flung on the stack.


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## Jacob J.

Joe46 said:


> The agency where I work received a request yesterday to turn one of our restrooms into a transgender restroom. Will that work for a descriptive process? Retiring on July 19th. Can't come soon enough!:bang:



If I ever see a transgender bathroom at my workplace, I'm outta there.


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## Jacob J.

Gologit said:


> What I'm wondering is what kind of symbol goes on the door. Or maybe just the word "whatever". Or "whomever".
> 
> Man, this is not one of the things I'd planned on thinking about this morning.



It's the same symbol Prince was using for a while when he didn't want to be called Prince.


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## H 2 H

Joe46 said:


> The agency where I work received a request yesterday to turn one of our restrooms into a transgender restroom. Will that work for a descriptive process? Retiring on July 19th. Can't come soon enough!:bang:



Does that mean different types of trees :jester:


_JMO_


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## H 2 H

Spent nearly 90 minutes on the road getting to a site and finding one part of the road heading up there just a little soft for the trucks and then waiting for three hours to getting the word to start or go home 

Oh and it was raining when I left the house then when we got there white death was spewing when we left the site

Atleast I don't have to wash my clothes :msp_w00t:


_JMO_


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## 2dogs

I had to go to DMV today to renew my driver license. Anyone living in Kalifornia knows that is usually not a pleasant experience, but I had an appointment so I just hoped for the best. The non-appointment line was about 20 deep but the appointment line was vacant. That was the first bit of good news. I received my number in less than a minute and sat down with 25 or so other people. Hmm. My number was call inside of 2 minutes! More good news. Now I had to deal with a DMV human. And guess what? He was great! I was out the door in less than 10 minutes and the people at the end of the line when I arrived were still in line.

Now I'm just waiting for a call to go to work. Next week would be cool.

Gologit is your avatar yours?


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## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Gologit is your avatar yours?



No. That thing is long gone. I was digging through some pictures for a family reunion and found that and a bunch of Stearman and N-3N and other stuff.

There's quite a few pilots on here. I thought maybe they'd like a look at a real flying machine's cockpit. Such as it is.


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## 1270d

Joe46 said:


> The agency where I work received a request yesterday to turn one of our restrooms into a transgender restroom.



Maybe this means a regular toilet with a urinal behind the bowl in place of the tank?


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## redprospector

Gologit said:


> Transgender restroom? They have special needs? Never mind, don't answer that. Some things, the less I know about the happier I'm gonna be. :msp_rolleyes:
> 
> And hang in there for the retirement. Retirement is like every day being Saturday.



Hmm. Maybe they should order a porta-potty to use for the "transgender" folks.

I don't think I want to retire anymore. Saturday is the day I have to go to the job by myself, and play mechanic on all the equipment while every one else is off playing somewhere.
I don't like playing mechanic that much.

Andy


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## redprospector

slowp said:


> Since we have started a new year, we should strive for a more positive outlook. The purpose of this thread is for
> 
> WHINING, as only foresters and loggers know how to do. But the new title puts a positive spin on our ordinary whining and therefore unwhines it.....
> 
> Continue on. What analytical processes did you go through today?
> 
> My feet got wet today.



Looks like you've got another hit Patty. 

Andy


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## slowp

The ground is white this morning. That's it for the accumulation amount of white stuff.


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## Joe46

I have no idea what the transgender types would like to have in "their" restroom. I just know us facilities guys are trying hard to kill the idea. We have a lot of things that need to be done that have a MUCH higher priority. Although we could probably amuse ourselves trying to come up with what to put on the door.


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## Samlock

Never mind. Let them have all the men's rooms in the world if they want to. The world is our toilet.


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## floyd

it took 2 weeks for the snow to get rained off.

I got to a wide spot on the road before I did the 180 to head back down the hill after powering out. This is much preferred to doing the 180 in a section of road that isn't a wide spot. This is below the narrow spot where the rear end slides into the ditch as I agressively power up the hill waiting for the wheel in the ditch to catch & send me straight across the road... & down to the road on the creek. 600 feet below.


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## slowp

Samlock said:


> Never mind. Let them have all the men's rooms in the world if they want to. The world is our toilet.



There was training about that going on at a campfire celebration I attended. A boy, about 6 years old came out of the house complaining that the bathroom was busy. The men instructed and showed him the proper protocol of going behind the woodshed, and explained the World Toilet theory but also added that it was a rural thing. 

He was getting Man lessons.


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## Samlock

I've been six weeks off cigarettes and other smokes now. Everything has gone quite smooth, considering that I've been a die hard nicotine junkie through my adult life. Just one thing the books and web sites don't mention about. Refueling. How are you supposed to fill the gas tank or the jug without a proper smoke curtain? The gas fumes are bad for your health, aren't they?


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## redprospector

slowp said:


> There was training about that going on at a campfire celebration I attended. A boy, about 6 years old came out of the house complaining that the bathroom was busy. The men instructed and showed him the proper protocol of going behind the woodshed, and explained the World Toilet theory but also added that it was a rural thing.
> 
> He was getting Man lessons.



Rural??? I guess they forgot to fill me in on that part. 

Andy


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## redprospector

Samlock said:


> I've been six weeks off cigarettes and other smokes now. Everything has gone quite smooth, considering that I've been a die hard nicotine junkie through my adult life. Just one thing the books and web sites don't mention about. Refueling. How are you supposed to fill the gas tank or the jug without a proper smoke curtain? The gas fumes are bad for your health, aren't they?



Good for you!! I started rolling my own to help me get off of Camel's & PalMal's. Then I used Snus to help me get off the Prince Albert. Little did I know that it's supposed to be harder to quit Snus than cigarette's. I've been tobacco free for 2 years in May. You'll learn to hold your head at a slightly tilted angle, and hold your breath while refueling. 

Andy


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## paccity

redprospector said:


> Rural??? I guess they forgot to fill me in on that part.
> 
> Andy



got to mark your territory.:msp_rolleyes:


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## redprospector

paccity said:


> got to mark your territory.:msp_rolleyes:



Yep, and my territory is pretty big. It includes several town's and 1 small city. 

Andy


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## northmanlogging

I'll be 2 years nonsmoking in august... but if someone was to hand me a lucky filter... there could be blood


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> There was training about that going on at a campfire celebration I attended. A boy, about 6 years old came out of the house complaining that the bathroom was busy. The men instructed and showed him the proper protocol of going behind the woodshed, and explained the World Toilet theory but also added that it was a rural thing.
> 
> He was getting Man lessons.



Those Man Lessons can backfire on you though. When my son was little we lived way out in the country with no close neighbors. He learned early on to just find a tree to stand behind or a corner of the barn or whatever semi-cover was available. If there was no cover available, well, that was okay too.

That worked real well, until he started kindergarten. About the third day we got one of those phone calls from the school...most parents know the kind I mean. He and I had to have a little talk about that and why peeing on the playground at recess probably wasn't the best thing to do. :msp_biggrin:


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## DavdH

My sister claims I ruint my nephews, they never even considered a'nautral until they hung out with their uncle around the ranch. That was like 20 years ago and they are still tainted by association with me.


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## RandyMac

I just got a new keyboard.
I cut my left index finger while opening a can of sausages, I am thin blooded and bleed freely. Just about that time my Sgt. comes into the control-room, he about goes into shock after seeing bright blood running down my arm and dripping off my elbow, onto the arm of the chair. Knowing he goes pale at the sight of blood, I pretended like nothing was going on. I thought he was going to lose it when I started typing 

I got hot sauce on the cut, I must say it brightened up my day.


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## slowp

RandyMac said:


> I just got a new keyboard.
> I cut my left index finger while opening a can of sausages, I am thin blooded and bleed freely. Just about that time my Sgt. comes into the control-room, he about goes into shock after seeing bright blood running down my arm and dripping off my elbow, onto the arm of the chair. Knowing he goes pale at the sight of blood, I pretended like nothing was going on. I thought he was going to lose it when I started typing
> 
> I got hot sauce on the cut, I must say it brightened up my day.




I don't like to wear a glove on my left hand while filing Barbie's chain. So, here I am at a chainsaw training thing and I had been filing my chain before going to class and my left hand slipped. The people at the training were not accustomed (like the rigging crews in the woods) to my tendencies. The instructor asked what happened--his eyes were big, and I told him it was OK, it was before class-on my own time, no biggie, no accident forms needed, etc.


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## Samlock

redprospector said:


> Good for you!! I started rolling my own to help me get off of Camel's & PalMal's. Then I used Snus to help me get off the Prince Albert. Little did I know that it's supposed to be harder to quit Snus than cigarette's. I've been tobacco free for 2 years in May. You'll learn to hold your head at a slightly tilted angle, and hold your breath while refueling.
> 
> Andy



Thanks Andy. I take your word there will be future for a non smoking cutter too.

You know, when I was 15 and started the first job, construction, smoking was, maybe not instructed, but strongly encouraged. The idea was that smoking promotes coughing, which was supposed to help the lungs to get rid of asbestos, glass fibers and concrete dust. Respirators were considered clumsy, expensive and queer. I don't know if the tabs did the job. I certainly did my best.

Cough.


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## floyd

I have been told in the US Army if you did not smoke you did not get a break.ThHis was in the 40's& 50's.


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## mile9socounty

Still sick here and its really getting on my last nerve. Made a trip into town to pick up two tubes for our tractor tires. You would have thought I ran there and back. All I've been doing in sleeping. Grrrrrrrrr......

Sam, come this April and it will be a year since I quit smoking. Almost 10 years of that ash sucking. Now all I have to do is quit chewing.


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## Jacob J.

mile9socounty said:


> *Now all I have to do is quit chewing.*



That'll happen when you move out of south County.


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## GRTimberCO

The ABS has been cutting up in my 3/4 ton dodge with a Cummins (about the only thing I like about the truck). Hasa mechanic buddy put his computer scanner on it and it cam up "Rear speed sensor". No big deal, I can change that myself and save $70. Soooo..... yesterday I pull the old one out and figure out why it's cutting up. The magnet that causes the sensor ot sense is flat covered in metal shavings. I mean COVERED!!! like big peices. That probably explains the clicking noise I've been hearing back there for a while. 

Mechanic buddy says "Proabably a bearing about to let go. Better fix it before it leaves you stranded. Αν έχετε atfirst do't πετύχει, να πάρει ένα μεγαλύτερο σφυρί. Ή δεν το αναγκάσει, απλά να πάρει ένα μεγαλύτερο σφυρί" Or that might aswell have been what he said becasue it was greek to me about marking the caps and making sure the shims go back with the right adjustment. I asked him what he'd charge to do it and he said "depends, rearends like that require a lot of prep work to clean out all the old oil and metal shavings before we even start to put it back together. Usually about $250 plus the parts." So, $325 on the low end if it's oly a bearings. Looks like I'm stripping wire and scrapping aluminum this weekend to get the money to put it in the shop.


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## redprospector

GRTimberCO said:


> The ABS has been cutting up in my 3/4 ton dodge with a Cummins (about the only thing I like about the truck). Hasa mechanic buddy put his computer scanner on it and it cam up "Rear speed sensor". No big deal, I can change that myself and save $70. Soooo..... yesterday I pull the old one out and figure out why it's cutting up. The magnet that causes the sensor ot sense is flat covered in metal shavings. I mean COVERED!!! like big peices. That probably explains the clicking noise I've been hearing back there for a while.
> 
> Mechanic buddy says "Proabably a bearing about to let go. Better fix it before it leaves you stranded. Αν έχετε atfirst do't πετύχει, να πάρει ένα μεγαλύτερο σφυρί. Ή δεν το αναγκάσει, απλά να πάρει ένα μεγαλύτερο σφυρί" Or that might aswell have been what he said becasue it was greek to me about marking the caps and making sure the shims go back with the right adjustment. I asked him what he'd charge to do it and he said "depends, rearends like that require a lot of prep work to clean out all the old oil and metal shavings before we even start to put it back together. Usually about $250 plus the parts." So, $325 on the low end if it's oly a bearings. Looks like I'm stripping wire and scrapping aluminum this weekend to get the money to put it in the shop.



I feel your pain. 
Got my wife's car out of the shop yesterday. Instead of the $750 that I thought it was going to cost, it wound up costing $801 after the Governor got her share.  Oh well, I only had to sell a couple of extra pints of blood to cover it. 

Andy


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## slowp

I skied too hard and my knee hurts.


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## 056 kid

slowp said:


> I skied too hard and my knee hurts.



Jealous


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## mile9socounty

Jacob J. said:


> That'll happen when you move out of south County.



Most likely the truth there JJ. Or maybe when I get falser's. Its kind of hard to move when you have a house payment.


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## floyd

I wish I could ski but my L kick n glide is gone. 10degrees of rotation on that ankle.

it would be kick, drag, fall over. get up.drag, attempted kick, fall over. Imagine trying to ski behind that.


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## slowp

floyd said:


> I wish I could ski but my L kick n glide is gone. 10degrees of rotation on that ankle.
> 
> it would be kick, drag, fall over. get up.drag, attempted kick, fall over. Imagine trying to ski behind that.



There was no kick to be had yesterday. We were skiing the lazy way. Get on chair, ride up, get off chair, point skis down hill, repeat.

For a gamble, and the price of a small chainsaw, we get reduced price season tickets each spring. Then are set, if it snows. So far it has.


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## floyd

I did that 1x yrs ago. I liked to tuck n go straight down. The landing part kind of hurt but the ride was nice. 

We used to go off Rabbit Ears Pass over to the ski hill at Steamboat Springs then ski down the trails. The hill faces west so it was a nice way to end the day.


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## Samlock

floyd said:


> I have been told in the US Army if you did not smoke you did not get a break.ThHis was in the 40's& 50's.



In our army, in the 90's, everyone got the cigarette break, smokers or not. It was just that if a man wasn't smoking, it looked like he was doing nothing. That laid a man open to the risk of being picked for something.


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## slowp

Well, since the topic of health has come up, in the middle of last month, I changed my way of eating. I didn't think anything was happening. After a month, I can fit in my old ski pants. The bad thing?
They aren't as nice as the giant ones. I think I can put more velcro on the waistband of the big ones. I'd like to get down enough to wear my purple ones. They are very warm and shorter of leg. 

Meanwhile, I want to keep on shrinking. There's a lot to go...

Oh, and I walk at least 3 miles about every other day if I don't go skiing or do something else. Which, I better go do after the sun burns some of the ice off. The bunions are also feeling better. 

The pickup doors are frozen --again.


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## Hardwoods Inc.

Was headed to a job about 150 miles from home.About halfway there on the interstate my Allison transmission in my 04 2500 hd starts jumping out of overdrive.I decided to try and make it back home and use my other 2500 hd and start the job monday.I didn't make it.About 25 miles from home it would barely do 50 mph.My transmission man tells me it's my transfer case and not my transmission and a GM reman will be $1700 plus $200 for him to put it in.Why does everything break down when you're not making any money?It's supposed to be ready tuesday.


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## Samlock

slowp said:


> The pickup doors are frozen --again.



Silicone spray - don't get cheap with it - on the seals and plenty of gun oil on the moving parts.

And congrats!


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## slowp

I think I have a can out somewhere in the shop. While I am looking for it, I will probably find the iron I was looking for the other day to wax my skis. I sacrificed my clothes iron, again, for doing that job.

It was 20 outside when I got up. The ground and trees are white with frost.


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## northmanlogging

its 22 deg outside, fire went out last night so its about 40 deg inside the house...


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## slowp

The pickup doors are fine this morning. Now, the big doors on the shop are frozen to the concrete. I can't think of any reason other than asthetics that I need them open for in the next few days. Ah, the life on the wetside! I failed in my search for the silicone spray--I know it is out there somewhere, and the iron also did not show up. 

I'm glad I didn't park my pickup indoors!


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## Jacob J.

Samlock said:


> In our army, in the 90's, everyone got the cigarette break, smokers or not. It was just that if a man wasn't smoking, it looked like he was doing nothing. That laid a man open to the risk of being picked for something.



It was that way here too when I worked for the state. The employees' union had made a big stink that all employees were supposed to get two 15-minute breaks in addition to lunch. We never took the breaks prior to that. Instead of standing out front with the smokers though I'd go to the cafeteria and watch the lovely ladies there make doughnuts.


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## madhatte

Today I am busy writing a policy that will become the rules I follow in my day-to-day activity. It's an interesting challenge -- I need to make sure that I give myself enough leash that I'm not always busy dotting "I's" and crossing "T's", but I still need to be explicit enough in the details that I don't systematically miss anything important. Also, everybody else needs to be able to understand and follow these rules as well. It's tough translating "that's how we do it" to "this is how you will do it". Right now I'm sort of mired in defining exactly WHY we have an inventory program. I mean, it's as obvious as the nose on my face to me why we need to know what's in our forest, but how do I describe it in terms that don't obligate me to unnecessary paperwork?


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## OlympicYJ

Not much negative descriptive stuff here. Dendrology is gonna suck. I hate repeating classes...


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## forestryworks

OlympicYJ said:


> Dendrology is gonna suck. I hate repeating classes...



Flash cards - one side with scientific names, the other with the common names.

Daily walks in the woods for the rest of it.


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## OlympicYJ

forestryworks said:


> Flash cards - one side with scientific names, the other with the common names.
> 
> Daily walks in the woods for the rest of it.



Yup. Gettin some electronic ones from a guy. We don't do much from the NW alot of stuff from back east and around the world I hear. Unfortunately can't go try out the new snow shoes for those lol My 2yr course isn't good enough for a transfer because it only covered NW species... :bang:

You've already finished up your 2yr haven't ya?

Wes


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## forestryworks

OlympicYJ said:


> Yup. Gettin some electronic ones from a guy. We don't do much from the NW alot of stuff from back east and around the world I hear. Unfortunately can't go try out the new snow shoes for those lol My 2yr course isn't good enough for a transfer because it only covered NW species... :bang:
> 
> You've already finished up your 2yr haven't ya?
> 
> Wes



Finished that up in May '10. Finished the bachelors Dec. '12.

Not being in school anymore is one hell of a weird feeling.


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## OlympicYJ

forestryworks said:


> Finished that up in May '10. Finished the bachelors Dec. '12.
> 
> Not being in school anymore is one hell of a weird feeling.



Haha oh I hear ya. I'll be done in 14. Spent some time screwin around after high school so i'm takin a lil while lol What have ya been doin since bein out?


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## redprospector

Ok, let me see if I can get out of the whining mode and into the descriptive mode...or are they the same thing??? 
I've been fighting a chest cold, or the flu, or something for the last several days. I decided that whether I felt good or not, it was time to go back to work today.
When I got there the tempreature was -1, so I got to mess around charging batteries, and squirtin' starting fluid. After about an hour I finally got it started (it must have known I felt bad, because usually it starts good in the cold). 
When I parked it last week I didn't fill it with diesel because I was coming down with something, and didn't feel good. Oh, and evidently I didn't bother putting any PowerService in the fuel tank on the truck because the pump would just trickle fuel out. 
I stuck the nozel in the tank and let it trickle, while I got in the truck to warm up......and apparantly took about an hour nap. :msp_scared:
I woke up in a panic about the fuel, but it had only trickled about 10 gallons into the tank, which I figured was enough to do what I felt like doing. 
I was able to put in about 4 hours "mulching" before the fuel gauge was pegged on empty. Did I mention that the heater doesn't work in this machine? I was freezing my ass off. But it did warm up to 22 degrees by then, so the diesel was trickling a little faster. Got it filled up and came home. It's supposed to get to -6 tonight, and shows to be up to 0 by 10 am. :msp_sad: I guess I'll try it again tomorrow, see if it goes any better. :msp_rolleyes:

Hey, this descriptive process is a lot like whining....just more long winded. 

Andy


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## northmanlogging

can you get different grades of diesel down there? I think #1 is a bit thinner, for cold weather stuff... maybe it was the other way around...

You could start a little fire in the cab, maybe use a cut off soda can and some saw fuel... just don't run over any big bumps or sneeze... or have a beard, or any thing flammable, in the cab with you... 


So I guess you'll have to shave your head and wear your nomex skivvies, you got nomex skivvies right...


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## madhatte

OlympicYJ said:


> Dendrology is gonna suck. I hate repeating classes...



You already back on the east side? Dammit, I got busy and forgot to go get a beer with ya while you were over here. Next time!


----------



## redprospector

northmanlogging said:


> can you get different grades of diesel down there? I think #1 is a bit thinner, for cold weather stuff... maybe it was the other way around...
> 
> You could start a little fire in the cab, maybe use a cut off soda can and some saw fuel... just don't run over any big bumps or sneeze... or have a beard, or any thing flammable, in the cab with you...
> 
> 
> So I guess you'll have to shave your head and wear your nomex skivvies, you got nomex skivvies right...



Different grades of diesel??? Man, this is the desert southwest, why would we need different grades of diesel?  At least that must be what the distributers figure.
Back when they made coffee can's out of metal, we'd put a roll of toilet paper in one, fill it with rubbing alcohol, and light it up. Made a good heater, but I never used one in a moving vehicle. :msp_scared:
I really try to avoid anything that involves nomex underwear. 

Andy


----------



## OlympicYJ

madhatte said:


> You already back on the east side? Dammit, I got busy and forgot to go get a beer with ya while you were over here. Next time!



Yup. I PMd ya but figured you were busy. I'll be back in May for the summer but gonna be spending most of it up in Port Angeles. Already got my gig for the summer. I'll be down to home and Oly though so now worries. How'd christmas go?

Sounds like writing policy is alot more descriptive than Dendro.... :msp_biggrin:


----------



## TreeGuyHR

slowp said:


> On retirement: I get bored some days, when the weather is bad, but I got bored some days at work. I prefer to be bored at home.
> 
> Today the weather is nasty, but I've got a good book, the fiddle, WII exercising, and annoying to be done in the Off Topic Forum.
> 
> White death on, white death changes to rain then back to white death.
> 
> 
> I too am puzzled about a transgender bathroom, but my head would hurt if I thought about it too much.
> In some places, there is only one bathroom and it must be shared by all. Maybe that's the answer?



Maybe kinda like your avatar -- just a little bit bent?

That is an increment borer that got run over by a truck, enit?


----------



## slowp

TreeGuyHR said:


> Maybe kinda like your avatar -- just a little bit bent?
> 
> That is an increment borer that got run over by a truck, enit?



Huh? 

That blue "increment borer" is the infamous blue boundary flagging used in these parts. The rant of a deceased logger friend went something like this, be sure to read it aloud and loud, "Flagging and paint! Flagging and paint! The Forest Service can't do anything without lots of flagging and paint!"

That used to be true.


----------



## slowp

Another rough day checking out long clearcuts at 6000 feet. Temps were in the 40s. Retirement is hard to do.....NOT. My knees are a little sore, again. As you can see, the slopes were overcrowded today.

View attachment 273733
View attachment 273734


----------



## hammerlogging

I'd "like" that but I really want to "super like" it so I can't


----------



## slowp

We're kinda planning to go up and do more clearcut snow checks tomorrow. It seems that we shall have this strange inversion weather thing for the next few days. In fact, it is supposed to be warmer tomorrow, I think, at the higher elevations.


----------



## slowp

My knees are screaming. Three afternoons of skiing up in the warm temps and sun was too much. Owie.
Temps were in the 50s at 6200 feet. Owie....


----------



## mile9socounty

How to describe this..... The work we are doing right now is pointless. As a few of you know I am not a logger or a faller. Job term is wildland fire fighter, or "other duties as required." Pretty much every fall - spring we do what it close to PCT thinning. Sometimes in really good stands of timber with pretty big specs. Other times really small tiny stuff. Right now we are working on a federal contract thinning on private land that butts up against FS property. Call it thinning and fuels reduction. We're on our 4th or 5th property right now, 14 acres. Nothing too big.

The land owner has a really nice stand of timber. A little steep, but gravy stuff. Well we cranked out about 6 acres today. Did it all wrong. To make it shorter, now all we are taking out is 3" or under dead pecker polls. Not actually thinning the stand to promote healthy growth. 

The kicker. The fallers come in to start cutting the timber next Tuesday.


----------



## slowp

That's kind of like making the skidders stay on designated skid trails, and then the mining company comes in and terraces the hillside. Oh well.


----------



## mile9socounty

It's less stuff the fallers are going to have to worry about. Just hope they don't mind walking on 6ft link-n-logs.


----------



## Samlock

-20F, I declare this day an official personal day off. Or, a mechanics day at least. I suspect one or two of the crummy's glow plugs being cold. Yesterday I had an interesting job to kick off the wreck after hours. I'm not going to do that again today.


----------



## Gologit

*Phone calls*

Why is it that phone calls after 8 at night are never good news?

I'm trying to do a little cutting job, nothing big, nothing fancy, and so far I have one whole day in.

There has to be at least 18 inches of snow on the ground because the soil is sandy and there are worries about erosion from skidding. No problem, I've worked there before and we always just waited for enough snow pack and went for it. We'd just watch for break-through and quit if there was any dirt showing.

There are four different government agencies involved in the job. They've also added a hydrologist to the staff. The hydrologist checks snow depth and ,as far as I can see, spends most of the day in his pickup napping. See where this is going? Yesterday they decided that the "average snow depth" didn't meet their required standards. I didn't see any dirt yesterday but they aren't taking any chances and shut everything down.

I slept late this morning.


----------



## Samlock

Gologit said:


> Why is it that phone calls after 8 at night are never good news?
> 
> I'm trying to do a little cutting job, nothing big, nothing fancy, and so far I have one whole day in.
> 
> There has to be at least 18 inches of snow on the ground because the soil is sandy and there are worries about erosion from skidding. No problem, I've worked there before and we always just waited for enough snow pack and went for it. We'd just watch for break-through and quit if there was any dirt showing.
> 
> There are four different government agencies involved in the job. They've also added a hydrologist to the staff. The hydrologist checks snow depth and ,as far as I can see, spends most of the day in his pickup napping. See where this is going? Yesterday they decided that the "average snow depth" didn't meet their required standards. I didn't see any dirt yesterday but they aren't taking any chances and shut everything down.
> 
> I slept late this morning.



Sounds like a administrative hostage situation... Ah, send those clowns here and we'll explain, when it comes to soil protection, what's the difference between snow layer and frozen ground.


----------



## Gologit

Samlock said:


> Sounds like a administrative hostage situation... Ah, send those clowns here and we'll explain, when it comes to soil protection, what's the difference between snow layer and frozen ground.



Maybe so. I learned a long time ago not to apply logic and common sense to any situation involving more than two government agencies on the same job at the same time. If you argue with them beyond a certain point you might as well be talking to a tree. They take refuge in their data...they don't have to think too much that way and it eliminates the possibility that they might make a decision that will irritate their superiors.

They have rule books. :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Samlock

Gologit said:


> Maybe so. I learned a long time ago not to apply logic and common sense to any situation involving more than two government agencies on the same job at the same time. If you argue with them beyond a certain point you might as well be talking to a tree. They take refuge in their data...they don't have to think too much that way and it eliminates the possibility that they might make a decision that will irritate their superiors.
> 
> They have rule books. :msp_rolleyes:



That's just plain ugly. I won't even try to imagine what would happen here if the agencies stumbled around the woods with their rule books. Here the environment protection things are strictly regulated by law. Compliance with the law, it's all up to you how you do it. If you screw up and break the law, you'll possibly spend some quality time behind the bars. But nobody will show up in the bush to tell you how to be good.

You need lazier clerks, if you don't mind me saying that. The ones who'll nap whole day in the pick up.


----------



## Gologit

Some of the government people I deal with are knowledgeable and practical people. They are gems and there are way too few of them. Some of them come from a logging background and, while still having to carry the government message, they're not adverse to applying common sense solutions to problems. There were some of them that I liked seeing come to our jobs. They contributed to the process and even if we didn't always agree on things they made their point in such a way that you could see the idea of it.

Most of them are older people and many of them are retiring or have retired already. Alas.
They're being replaced by bright, articulate, college educated people with no real experience in the woods. Hence the refuge of the rule book. If you ask them a question you generally get one of two answers..." I'll check on that and get back to you" which means that you may or may not ever hear from them again...or "NO, the contract doesn't cover that and if it's not in the contract we can't allow it". If you argue with them they get very nervous and tend to stammer a lot. They cite their education and the rule book as a legitimate excuse for their lack of real experience.

The focus is going away from timber harvest, and a preservationist mind set has taken over. There's nothing I can do to change that but living and working with it is hard sometimes.


----------



## slowp

I suggest you call the boss of the hydrologist. Nobody on the clock should be napping. Maybe the hydrologist could learn something by staying awake. Go get them up, tell them to go check something.
Keep them awake, please.

I was on a project that had Archeology Monitors on it. They were sleeping in their trucks. The log trucks would go by them and lay on the horn. The loggers were getting more angry. A complaint was lodged and the monitors didn't sleep as much....

I admit to being one of the horn honkers.....it made me mad too.


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> If you ask them a question you generally get one of two answers..." I'll check on that and get back to you" which means that you may or may not ever hear from them again...or "NO, the contract doesn't cover that and if it's not in the contract we can't allow it". If you argue with them they get very nervous and tend to stammer a lot. They cite their education and the rule book as a legitimate excuse for their lack of real experience.



I am in the process now of getting certified as a COR. That means I am getting my Rule Book together. One thing I'm finding, to my frustration, is that, under huge pressure from WAY above to "cut spending", the rules are changing WAY too fast to keep up with. Some changes start below and propagate up. Some start from the top and propagate down. Some are agency-specific, some office-specific. Some are supposed to apply at all levels. Very seldom to they intersect. Near as I can tell, there is no one person or agency responsible for policing all regulations, so at each stop, you have to find the one person who knows what is supposed to happen. The nervous stammering you refer to is due to the genuine impossibility for one person to have all the answers, and to the near-impossibility of that person being empowered to make a decision NOW and deal with the fallout later. It's a mess, and as fast as it's changing, there's no real way to be an expert. Things need to slow down some so that we can all catch up.


----------



## Gologit

It was a tempting thought...tippy toe over there and then start whamming on the roof of his (new, of course) pickup with the flat of my hand and screaming. It would have made a good video watching him ricochet around like a pin ball until he realized what was going on.

But, no. I let him sleep. Everybody should do what he does best.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> I am in the process now of getting certified as a COR. That means I am getting my Rule Book together. One thing I'm finding, to my frustration, is that, under huge pressure from WAY above to "cut spending", the rules are changing WAY too fast to keep up with. Some changes start below and propagate up. Some start from the top and propagate down. Some are agency-specific, some office-specific. Some are supposed to apply at all levels. Very seldom to they intersect. Near as I can tell, there is no one person or agency responsible for policing all regulations, so at each stop, you have to find the one person who knows what is supposed to happen. The nervous stammering you refer to is due to the genuine impossibility for one person to have all the answers, and to the near-impossibility of that person being empowered to make a decision NOW and deal with the fallout later. It's a mess, and as fast as it's changing, there's no real way to be an expert. Things need to slow down some so that we can all catch up.



Hmmm...and you have how many more years to go before retirement? There...that ought to start your morning off on a cheerful and positive note.


----------



## madhatte

*shudder*

I can't stop washing...


----------



## slowp

There's nothing like going and driving or flying miles and miles to go to a training session where the panel of experts doesn't even know or have not thought of, how common situations should be handled. There was a lot of debate amongst themselves and then "We'll have to get back to you on that one." It made my head want to explode.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> *shudder*
> 
> I can't stop washing...



Then you'd best use Dove and have hand lotion handy!


----------



## OlympicYJ

Gologit said:


> Maybe so. I learned a long time ago not to apply logic and common sense to any situation involving more than two government agencies on the same job at the same time. If you argue with them beyond a certain point you might as well be talking to a tree. They take refuge in their data...they don't have to think too much that way and it eliminates the possibility that they might make a decision that will irritate their superiors.
> 
> They have rule books. :msp_rolleyes:






Gologit said:


> Some of the government people I deal with are knowledgeable and practical people. They are gems and there are way too few of them. Some of them come from a logging background and, while still having to carry the government message, they're not adverse to applying common sense solutions to problems. There were some of them that I liked seeing come to our jobs. They contributed to the process and even if we didn't always agree on things they made their point in such a way that you could see the idea of it.
> 
> Most of them are older people and many of them are retiring or have retired already. Alas.
> They're being replaced by bright, articulate, college educated people with no real experience in the woods. Hence the refuge of the rule book. If you ask them a question you generally get one of two answers..." I'll check on that and get back to you" which means that you may or may not ever hear from them again...or "NO, the contract doesn't cover that and if it's not in the contract we can't allow it". If you argue with them they get very nervous and tend to stammer a lot. They cite their education and the rule book as a legitimate excuse for their lack of real experience.
> 
> The focus is going away from timber harvest, and a preservationist mind set has taken over. There's nothing I can do to change that but living and working with it is hard sometimes.



Unfortunately the good ones in govt service are retiring. Still a few good ones out there with a ways to go like hatte. There are some very practical ppl going here to the University of Idaho and i like to count myself as one. Like me, most will probably head for the private sector to avoid the bs involved in working for the gov. I will say the Idaho Dept of Lands seems to be a good agency. Not like Cali or WA. Very logging oriented. Hell they're still logging the last of their old growth. In Wa dnr wouldn't touch it if they had it! I know one of the forest practices foresters in Wa. Old guard will work with you or like ya say explain it so you see the point. Even he's looking to go to the private sector...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## hammerlogging

Samlock said:


> That's just plain ugly. I won't even try to imagine what would happen here if the agencies stumbled around the woods with their rule books. Here the environment protection things are strictly regulated by law. Compliance with the law, it's all up to you how you do it. If you screw up and break the law, you'll possibly spend some quality time behind the bars. But nobody will show up in the bush to tell you how to be good.
> 
> You need lazier clerks, if you don't mind me saying that. The ones who'll nap whole day in the pick up.



This very much speaks to the crap that we're faced with. To preserve our "freedom" we have forest practices "guidelines" that are enforce if the results have qualified as a law breaker, i.e. dirt in the creek. Alternatively, others have forest practices "acts" which define acceptable operations for particular conditions, if you follow basic procedures, you're off the hook, even if there is dirt in the creek. The question is not wether or not there is dirt in the creek, there will be some either way, hopefully not much, but between the inevitable and crappy operators, there will be some. I kind of like the "acts" because I like to emphasize performance. Compliance is not a concern for me, generaly these standards ALSO allow for enhanced productivity, but for others this is too much a sacrifice in "freedom" and the "acts" route sounds beaurocratic, which is of course seemingly synonymous with "socialist". Playing by the book is actually not really very hard.

In regards to the perfromance of some gov't employees, I think its as much a personality type as anything, and so many people don't have the guts to make a decision and stand by it, at god forbid, the risk of being.......wrong. Indecisive people are very threatened and insecure; while they can't help you, they sure can get in your way.


----------



## northmanlogging

Done seen the strangest thing tonight... Dodge 3500 with a set of bunks in the back and a log trailer behind it... they had taken the duals off but still sporting the full size wheels... luckily they wern't trying to haul any logs like that... I think


----------



## RandyMac

I got sent home, four hours early, I wonder if it was something I said.


----------



## KYLogger

"Pathetic man cold", mud, "pathetic man cold", mud, and the crummy is broke down, using personal truck to ferry muddy loggers and haul fuel. Man I didn't realize how muddy and nasty my old truck actually was until we started trashing my personal truck.........Oh yeah and somethin' is wrong with the dozer. When "pathetic man cold" ceases time to tear into the 450. Fun, fun.


----------



## M.R.

northmanlogging said:


> Done seen the strangest thing tonight... Dodge 3500 with a set of bunks in the back and a log trailer behind it... they had taken the duals off but still sporting the full size wheels... luckily they wern't trying to haul any logs like that... I think





northmanlogging said:


> Done seen the strangest thing tonight... Dodge 3500 with a set of bunks in the back and a log trailer behind it... they had taken the duals off but still sporting the full size wheels... luckily they wern't trying to haul any logs like that... I think




They do look funny, my 91 W-350 sure does with the 9' FB on it.
For years I've pulled the inside duals for winter [unless I'm needing the load cap.] to get around & into my place, 



With the 4:10 gearing hoping the fuel mileage will be better [ have seen 3-5 mpg difference in the past], This year I went to a taller studded set of four & where I can't dual them because of the sidewall clearance........ Regardless I needed the extra clearance thru the drifts living @ the 4500'elevation & a couple of short grades from town, on the county road are 16-18%



The down side of running them this way is the tracking & on the payment where the truck have rolled or grooved it

it drifts & akin to the feeling of driving on Black Ice. I recon' most can relate to the pucker factor here! In getting used to it.







For the 'Descriptive Whine' 
I just bought a set of 4 oversized studded shoes @ $1,445


----------



## madhatte

A SMART tree nerd doesn't let the ol' Filson coat drain into the Romeos while driving from one site to the next. 

Just sayin'.


----------



## OlympicYJ

madhatte said:


> A SMART tree nerd doesn't let the ol' Filson coat drain into the Romeos while driving from one site to the next.
> 
> Just sayin'.



Or leave the tin pants to drip off at home above em! What coat ya have? I just got the logger coat over chritmas. Now I've got a full set of tins.

After taking a quiz today on 16 northwest conis I'd say it went really well. Anyone know Call_itropsis nootkatensis_? :msp_biggrin: Without using the internet? :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## madhatte

Gotta be a new name for Chamaecyparis, Alaska Yellow-Cedar. Dang ol' PhyloCode guys all learnin' about genetics. I have the coat with the slash pockets under the flap, no liner.


----------



## OlympicYJ

You would be correct sir. Yea apparently the newest update. My prof is a taxonomist so he's all up on that stuff lol


----------



## madhatte

It's getting kind of hard to keep up with. I suspect that we may be seeing the end of Linnaean taxonomy. I'm not exactly looking forward to learning everything all over again, but I admit that basing a taxonomic system on genetics rather than on observed morphology is probably more "right"... even if it DOES define cacti as being derived from primroses. Cladistics is a dark art.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Yea he talked about that a lil the other day in class. Sounds like it's gonna be around for a while at least. It will only matter to the scientists. I don't see it really affecting guys in the field. They're going away from abbreviations like DF to PSME or THPL for Western red cedar. Kinda screwed me up for a bit last semester lol


----------



## paccity

the larch.


----------



## OlympicYJ

That a western or a the other one I don't know?... yet

If Western _Larix occidentalis_


----------



## mile9socounty

paccity said:


> the larch.



Isnt that some sort of ultra rare, highly endangered western golden?


----------



## slowp

mile9socounty said:


> Isnt that some sort of ultra rare, highly endangered western golden?



No, it would be good firewood. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## OlympicYJ

If that particular one were in the saw sight it might be... :msp_biggrin:


----------



## slowp

In E. Warshington, they are called Tamarack. That's to confuse you even more. And, as we found out, don't climb them with spurs. The bark tends to slough off. 

The saying is, _They die every winter_.


----------



## slowp

Okay, my eastsider background and ignorance will now show. You coasty folks, can a cedar strip boat be made out of strips off a standing live cedar? I know that strips for baskets get pulled off and the tree recovers if you don't girdle it, but is the same method used for a boat? 

I am skeptical.


----------



## paccity

with you all speaking greek, Latin or what ever.. i was thinking someone would catch the obscure reference to "the larch" statement. . or am i that old or obscure .


----------



## madhatte

OlympicYJ said:


> It will only matter to the scientists. I don't see it really affecting guys in the field.



It will, eventually, is my worry. Without clear rules for naming things, we won't be able to call a "Douglas-fir" a "Douglas-fir" on sight - we'll have to carry laser gene sequencers or somesuch in the field, which strikes me as stupid. 



OlympicYJ said:


> They're going away from abbreviations like DF to PSME or THPL for Western red cedar.



Those 4-letter abbreviations are called "codons" and have been around awhile. If you already know the Latin for things, codons are easy. They're also a very good reason why killing off Linnaeus might be a bad idea. Codons really earn their pay when typing out plant associations; the overstory/understory relationship is simpler as a series of no more than 16 letters than it is as a page of jargon, but carries the same meaning because you can look it up later.



paccity said:


> with you all speaking greek, Latin or what ever.. i was thinking someone would catch the obscure reference to "the larch" statement. . or am i that old or obscure .



I got a 'spicion I'm missing a good yuk here.


----------



## northmanlogging

paccity said:


> with you all speaking greek, Latin or what ever.. i was thinking someone would catch the obscure reference to "the larch" statement. . or am i that old or obscure .



naw I get it but yer pic needs to be from farther away and in black and white, and a little blurry, with an english accent... and repeated randomly throughout the chainsaw and off topic threads:biggrin:


----------



## paccity

there ya go.:biggrin:


----------



## northmanlogging

How To Recognize Different Types Of Tree - Opening Sequence - YouTube lets see if'n that there technology thingy werkz


----------



## paccity

[video=youtube;HPeFd5zQm_Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HPeFd5zQm_Y#t=0s[/video]


----------



## OlympicYJ

I heard codons have been around a while just now kinda catchin on outside academia. It was pretty easy once i got used to it but my was trying to think in terms of both systems which resulted in a mix of both which drove me insane. I'd look at it and my brain would say something else but when trying to converse with someone to keep them from getting confuddled I had to speak using the codon... argh just jamming up the brain waves... not that there's much to jam up in mine lol

Well if we get to the point the point where we need laser genetic code identifier doohicky things I guess we don't need dendro classes anymore!... might not be too much of a bad thing :msp_rolleyes:

I get the feeling I'm missing something too but a good chicken dinner has me in the relaxed and brain turned off mode lol


----------



## northmanlogging

I though all you'ze college kids new about THE LARCH If not you should demand a refund on your dorm fees... or buy more beer one of the two


----------



## OlympicYJ

I think I just lost more brain cells.... At least I get it now lol


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> How To Recognize Different Types Of Tree - Opening Sequence - YouTube lets see if'n that there technology thingy werkz



It does and now I get it.


----------



## OlympicYJ

northmanlogging said:


> I though all you'ze college kids new about THE LARCH If not you should demand a refund on your dorm fees... or buy more beer one of the two



I think I need more beer... I live in an RV trailer... at least I can have beer.... and guns.... and yupp that's it... wait. I do have room for my saw, tools, and a new pair of snow shoes!


----------



## madhatte

paccity said:


> the larch



D'OH! Of course. 

See, that's what Latin does to the English-speaker's brain. 'T ain't pretty, folks.


----------



## floyd

I really hated cruising larch in the fall & winter.


----------



## slowp

OlympicYJ said:


> I think I need more beer... I live in an RV trailer... at least I can have beer.... and guns.... and yupp that's it... wait. I do have room for my saw, tools, and a new pair of snow shoes!



I had room for my skis in mine. I lived a couple of years in a 24 foot Kit Companion. The wall by the bed would get frosty in the winter. Brrrrrrr.


----------



## OlympicYJ

slowp said:


> I had room for my skis in mine. I lived a couple of years in a 24 foot Kit Companion. The wall by the bed would get frosty in the winter. Brrrrrrr.



The girlfriend found some stuff frozen to the floor in a corner a week or so ago :msp_scared:

Livin in a trailer sounds bad at first but then people see it and are like wow nice place lol


----------



## redprospector

OlympicYJ said:


> The girlfriend found some stuff frozen to the floor in a corner a week or so ago :msp_scared:
> 
> * Livin in a trailer sounds bad at first but then people see it and are like wow nice place* lol



I beg to differ with you. I lived in a trailer after my 1st wife divorced me, for a while (until my last wife married me )
Camping in a camper trailer is ok for a little while. Living in a camper trailer for prolonged periods of time *SUX*. 

Andy


----------



## GRTimberCO

I used to be a professional logger but sold out my equipment and now I'm back to amateur status. Lately I've been researching the market and contemplating getting back in on a small but efficient scale. 

Someone on another thread here told me I didn't know anything about logging because my time zone wasn't good enough. It made me feel sad and angry. My inferiority complex isn't even as good as his. I blame my father.... and the color red. That is all


----------



## floyd

Hwd logging is different from softwood logging.

Watching a tree go down the hill 100' or so off the stump makes one see the sense in directional falling gets one attention as well. Especially if someone is stupid enough to work below you.


----------



## wowzers

I was just part of an interview committie, where one of the applicants said he could tell us the names of species in latin. My coworker relipied "And we ouldn't have any idea what you are talking about." I took dendro on the east coast and learned my west coast species logging so I tend to use the local common names way more.


----------



## redprospector

Just out of curiosity. How do you say Piss Fir in Latin? 

Andy


----------



## floyd

Aibes concolor


----------



## redprospector

floyd said:


> Aibes concolor



Thank you.
I feel.........enlightened. 

Andy


----------



## Gologit

redprospector said:


> Thank you.
> I feel.........enlightened.
> 
> Andy



I dare ya...next time you see a FS employee, call them that. Want to make a bet they won't take offense 'cause they won't know what your're saying?


----------



## redprospector

Gologit said:


> I dare ya...next time you see a FS employee, call them that. Want to make a bet they won't take offense 'cause they won't know what your're saying?



You're on!
Damit, I wish people wouldn't dare me. :bang:
Oh well, I've got just the guy in mind, hopefully he's the next one I see. 

Andy


----------



## OlympicYJ

wowzers said:


> I was just part of an interview committie, where one of the applicants said he could tell us the names of species in latin. My coworker relipied "And we ouldn't have any idea what you are talking about." I took dendro on the east coast and learned my west coast species logging so I tend to use the local common names way more.



And the real world strikes lol beyond science common names are well just way more common... lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## slowp

I feel the need to discuss my session with the Tsuga heterophylla of doom. Yesterday, as stated in the Falling Pictures thread, my neighbor put it down on the ground in a nice spot. He laid it right next to the wood pile, which is where it will end up. 

I started cutting on it. I stopped to take some pictures. The Used Dog was looking cute so I took a shot of him. Since he stopped and sat when I told him to, I thought I'd reward him by throwing a ball which he had in his mouth. I threw it. I felt a hard tug on my hand and the camera was jerked out and was hooked to the Used Dog and it was bouncing alongside him going after the ball. There's no stopping him when he's after a ball. I ran behind to get him on his way back. The camera is muddy, but still seems to work. Seems to.

Back I went to the hemlock. I got half way through and heard a noise. I pulled the bar out and revved the saw. It sounded normal. Back in it went. This time, I remembered what the noise was. I'd hit a nail. Yup, the hemlock was a tree house. I haven't gotten up above the platform yet. 

Tomorrow, fun with chains. The tree is a little far for the Sawzall to reach.


----------



## OlympicYJ

redprospector said:


> I beg to differ with you. I lived in a trailer after my 1st wife divorced me, for a while (until my last wife married me )
> Camping in a camper trailer is ok for a little while. Living in a camper trailer for prolonged periods of time *SUX*.
> 
> Andy



How big was your trailer Andy? This thing is 27 foot. Even have a washer/dryer! The shower is a tad small...


----------



## redprospector

OlympicYJ said:


> How big was your trailer Andy? This thing is 27 foot. Even have a washer/dryer! The shower is a tad small...



Haha. I had a big one, it was 32'. Had a stack washer/dryer, tv, and a whole bunch of other crap.
I will say one thing, cost of living is cheap if you own the property it's sitting on. Even cheaper tramping around on National Forest, you just gotta move it every 2 weeks. 

Andy


----------



## OlympicYJ

redprospector said:


> Haha. I had a big one, it was 32'. Had a stack washer/dryer, tv, and a whole bunch of other crap.
> I will say one thing, cost of living is cheap if you own the property it's sitting on. Even cheaper tramping around on National Forest, you just gotta move it every 2 weeks.
> 
> Andy



Haha gotcha! Well it hasn't gotten old yet. Probably comin soon lol


----------



## redprospector

OlympicYJ said:


> Haha gotcha! Well it hasn't gotten old yet. Probably comin soon lol



It may not get old for you. You're probably not making payments on a 3 bedroom 2 bath home that someone else is living in, while you're camping out.
Yeah, I know, I'm a bitter old man. 

Andy


----------



## OlympicYJ

redprospector said:


> It may not get old for you. You're probably not making payments on a 3 bedroom 2 bath home that someone else is living in, while you're camping out.
> Yeah, I know, I'm a bitter old man.
> 
> Andy



O o yeah that would def make it suck!!! Eh nothin wrong with bein bitter. Hey im a bitter gun clingy young guy.... 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## slowp

I filed away on my chain and then started another cut a couple inches up the tree and hit another nail or the same one. :msp_sad:


----------



## northmanlogging

just burn through it until you get above the "house" bit, may need to rest yer saw a little between cuts though, all that revving and going nowhere taint to good for it, or get some of that funny look'n rope with the powdery core, and a shiny thing with wires sticking out of its tuchus... just warn the neighbors first, no don't warn them and have fun with the fire fighters when they show up...


----------



## OlympicYJ

northmanlogging said:


> just burn through it until you get above the "house" bit, may need to rest yer saw a little between cuts though, all that revving and going nowhere taint to good for it, or get some of that funny look'n rope with the powdery core, and a shiny thing with wires sticking out of its tuchus... just warn the neighbors first, no don't warn them and have fun with the fire fighters when they show up...



Ah the smell of det cord in the mornin.... :msp_biggrin:


----------



## redprospector

OlympicYJ said:


> O o yeah that would def make it suck!!! Eh nothin wrong with bein bitter. Hey im a bitter gun clingy young guy....
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



Being bitter will eat you up.
I try to treat my bitterness like an old sweater. I usually keep it put away, but every once in a while I've got to get it out, just to see if it still fits. 

Andy


----------



## redprospector

slowp said:


> I filed away on my chain and then started another cut a couple inches up the tree and hit another nail or the same one. :msp_sad:



When I was a kid I loved tree houses. Not so much now that I'm supposed to be an adult. Especially given the line of work I'm in.
Good luck with it Patty, better you than me.

Andy


----------



## OlympicYJ

redprospector said:


> Being bitter will eat you up.
> I try to treat my bitterness like an old sweater. I usually keep it put away, but every once in a while I've got to get it out, just to see if it still fits.
> 
> Andy



Haha eh im not that bitter. Mostly Jaded and cynical.... oh and critical! LMAO


----------



## northmanlogging

Its been a number of years since I got to play with any Det cord... I am seriously considering going through with the permitting and licensing process, just so I can mess with it again, maybe take down some danger trees and stump removal, cut the odd scrap heap in half... but its such a pain to get and store now that I'm not real sure its worth it...


----------



## slowp

redprospector said:


> When I was a kid I loved tree houses. Not so much now that I'm supposed to be an adult. Especially given the line of work I'm in.
> Good luck with it Patty, better you than me.
> 
> Andy



You can see one little board left. I figure a few more feet and I'll be where they couldn't reach. 

View attachment 276030


The old faller who cut it down offered to limb it, and looked quite relieved when I told him I'd do it.


----------



## OlympicYJ

northmanlogging said:


> Its been a number of years since I got to play with any Det cord... I am seriously considering going through with the permitting and licensing process, just so I can mess with it again, maybe take down some danger trees and stump removal, cut the odd scrap heap in half... but its such a pain to get and store now that I'm not real sure its worth it...



I used to have my MSHA certifications. That's Mine Safety & Health Admin. Allowed me to work both above and below ground mines. At one point in time I thought I wanted to be a mining engineer. Got to go to the Alaska Mine training center in Delta Junction for 9 saterdays lol We gotta do a full on shoot using ANFO and emulsion also called water jel. It's essentially a plastic explosive. Very stable stuff, not like nitro based dynamite. When they warn ya ANFO stings in cuts and scratches.... they are right! lol We used det cord to set off the faces and shock tube to the det cord.


----------



## northmanlogging

I've really only messed with det cord, my uncle is the one that had all the really fun stuff, but he would let me "help" when he wanted to take down danger trees and what not, never got to use anfo or tnt. Both uncles on my moms side have excellent stories about nearly dying from stumps and gravel pit blasts... one involved a stump 23 sticks a dozer and a highway... This is from the church going uncle... after half a bottle of apple pie... drank out of dixie cups, good times:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## OlympicYJ

sounds like fun times for sure! I've heard a few over the years. The people that originally owned my dad's place blew a stump from the middle of a field across the river to te middle of another 45 acre field.... The hole was still there till be plowed everything up. I will say I remember it being a pretty big hole lol


----------



## redprospector

OlympicYJ said:


> sounds like fun times for sure! I've heard a few over the years. The people that originally owned my dad's place blew a stump from the middle of a field across the river to te middle of another 45 acre field.... The hole was still there till be plowed everything up. I will say I remember it being a pretty big hole lol



I was involved in a similar incident many years ago. It probably didn't go as far as the stump on your dad's place, but we were pretty sure that our stump was going to go into orbit. Unfortunately it didn't, and we had to haul it off.

Andy


----------



## twochains

northmanlogging said:


> Its been a number of years since I got to play with any Det cord... I am seriously considering going through with the permitting and licensing process, ... but its such a pain to get and store now that I'm not real sure its worth it...



Make your own toys...FTW


----------



## OlympicYJ

redprospector said:


> I was involved in a similar incident many years ago. It probably didn't go as far as the stump on your dad's place, but we were pretty sure that our stump was going to go into orbit. Unfortunately it didn't, and we had to haul it off.
> 
> Andy



I'm sure they thought the same! I heard a stick or at least half a stick of dynamite and a couple bags of fertilizer.... I'm venturing a guess but strait line that stump traveled probably 400 yards, maybe a touch more...


----------



## RandyMac

Do you think you used enough dynamite - YouTube


----------



## northmanlogging

Did some digging on getting a blasting license, and wouldn't ya know it the email link for the guy in charge for WA L+I doesn't work... guess I'll have to call em.

Also going to need to get a permit/license from the ATF, hope they don't want an arm and a leg for it...


----------



## Gologit

*Breakdown in communication*

Had a little cutting job scheduled for today. Got to the locked gate about 5:30. I don't have a key. Supposed to be somebody there. Nobody there. Waited. Drank coffee. Fidgeted. Cussed. No cell phone reception. Waited some more. Drank the rest of the coffee. Fidgeting now in high gear. Cussing low key but constant.
Waited some more. Gave up and went home...luckily only half an hour away.
Called landowner. They forgot today was the day. Forgot? I see a price increase in their immediate future.
We'll try it again at ten o'clock. Taking bolt cutters just in case.
No more coffee, though.


----------



## slowp

Isn't 5:30 kind of late?

OK Madhatte, I was on my walk and heard a feller buncher working on the hillside. I'm saying by the sound that it was one with a round blade on it--not a chainsaw type cutter. Thats cuz the noise goes like this WhirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrSchwaaaaang, whomp, Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr repeat. It wasn't a processor.


----------



## OlympicYJ

slowp said:


> Isn't 5:30 kind of late?
> 
> OK Madhatte, I was on my walk and heard a feller buncher working on the hillside. I'm saying by the sound that it was one with a round blade on it--not a chainsaw type cutter. Thats cuz the noise goes like this WhirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrSchwaaaaang, whomp, Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr repeat. It wasn't a processor.



Def sounds like a buncher to me.... the schwaaaang denotes smaller timber.... if large timber lurks about it should sound like this Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrshwaaau


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## slowp

The ones with the chainsaw head are more of a Juuuuuuuuuuuuuush and less of the metallic Schwaaaang.
Yes, they would be in smaller stuff. I'll have to go on a walkabout up there when the snow line goes back up.


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> Isn't 5:30 kind of late?
> 
> .



Only for Forest Service people.


----------



## twochains

Is this the appropriate place to rant? Or whine a little? :hmm3grin2orange: I'm fricken sick of working my tail off for " Father and Son" crews!!!! I could just punch myself in the face! I am living a phrase..."Damned if you do damned if you don't". I honestly don't see how people can live with themselves sometimes. The "boys" :msp_rolleyes: have to know they are lazy little f###er's...reckon it even bothers them, figure when they go home they blow real loud and plop down and whine to their ol'ladies about bein worn out...at 29 yr old?? (Oldest son) All knowing they been doin the minimum possible to make their 8 hr day complete. 

My morning starts off sharpening my saw by headlight, throwing on my gear, throwing a gallon of gas and a gallon of oil over my shoulder, and hiking off through the woods. I don't return till I burn all the gas, which is generally around say 9 hrs. It's enough that I don't even count burnt tanks of gas. I guess the part that gets to me is shutting the saw off, moving across to more timber, and NOT hearing any equipment going. I just get back after it and tell myself that I can't worry about stuff like that...the job and how well I, myself work, is all that really matters in the end. At the end of the day, can I sit down in the service truck on my way home and ask myself if I busted ass that day? HELL YES! And I do it everyday! 

I have always worked hard, never really mattered what I was doing, I always tried. I don't see how some people can get by with doing "just enough"! My boss is a very hard worker! He used to be able to keep in front of 3 trimmers back in the day...and I would say questionable help ! But actually this guy is a good boss. I have already heard of him bragging on me to other loggers, and I like that...I know he sees that I am trying. I think him bragging on me pisses off his boys. I guess that would be a natural reaction, when you can't motivate yourself to rise to the occasion and bust tail. 

Good weather couldn't come soon enough! I am wintering out with this crew due to the fact that my boss has a tie mill. We are never out of work due to weather. I am starting to cut for a different crew on the weekends, they pay cash . Problem with that is this new crew buys timber for the crew I am currently working for...and this new boss doesn't want to upset my current boss. Oh brother, that's confusing.

Anyway, I take each day with stride. Focus on the job, but think of the bigger picture. I was always told by my Father that "You get out of life what you put into it"...I have been at this game for 18 1/2 years. I know that logging and working hard are alot of the time thankless jobs...just a grind, pay your bills, and take care and provide for your family with what you do. 

I'm not sorry for ranting, it just flowed out, I prolly didn't even get a 1/4 of what was on my mind off of it. People might say, "why do it on here?" It does me no good to talk to anyone outside the "biz"...I just don't think that anyone else truely understands.

Clint


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## madhatte

slowp said:


> The ones with the chainsaw head are more of a Juuuuuuuuuuuuuush and less of the metallic Schwaaaang.



Yeah, processors are more kinda "NYEEEEERN SHKLONG". The "SHPAAAAAAANG" sound definitely smacks of feller-buncher.



EDIT: onomatopoeia, wouldn't wanna be ya


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## northmanlogging

*the continued process of losing fingers and hearing*

Made the call to L+I the licensing packet is on its way, needs an undisclosed fee, and a test... Its been 20+ years since messing with this stuff... should be funny if I don't get arrested:eek2:

Also will make the call to the alcoholic, thugs, and flea bags. Permit through them is only $100. but I'll need to build a magazine...


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## northmanlogging

While searching through L+I rules today came across this... :msp_confused:


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> While searching through L+I rules today came across this... :msp_confused:



We learned about that in _Basic Logging Systems_. I guess it was really used on the peninsula. The one they always brought up with a grave expression on the face of the lecturer was the one that used 4 helicopter like things to lift logs. The prototype crashed and killed the pilots. 

Perhaps Humptulips needs to make an appearance. He may know more about the balloon logging.


----------



## Gologit

Piasecki PA97 Helistat Accident Crash - helicopter helium blimp hybrid air vehicle heavy lift - YouTube


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Piasecki PA97 Helistat Accident Crash - helicopter helium blimp hybrid air vehicle heavy lift - YouTube



Thanks. It is painful to watch. There's something symbolic about a blimp with US Forest Service on it deflating and going down. And the poor pilots! This gets mentioned once in a while with a lot of silence after the mentioning. 

[video=youtube_share;_7jENWKgMPY]http://youtu.be/_7jENWKgMPY[/video]


----------



## slowp

Here's the balloon at work. Think of it as a large, mobile intermediate support which can't work on a windy day.

[video=youtube_share;JnV-dRw8byY]http://youtu.be/JnV-dRw8byY[/video]


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## mile9socounty

Just an idea here. How comes we don't have pics up of our saws after a full day of work? I mean dirty, covered in oil and chip. Looking like a slobbering rottweiler instead of almost brand new?


----------



## madhatte

Spent a good portion of today "discussing" buffer zones for squirrels with some state 'Ologists. Good folks, really, but way too focused, I think. Had a particularly spirited discussion over "legacy" trees. They say "Big". I say "We grow 'em big here". They say "Big like that one". I say "That one still has a pointy top and rough bark. It's 80 years old. It's only legacy is remembering WWII". They say "Good enough". I point out a flat-top wagon-wheel with complex epicormic branching all up and down it and say "That tree is probably close to 300 years old, and is smaller than the one we were just talking about. Size isn't everything". They say "Whoah, I thought that was some kind of pine rather than a fir". End result: we're now looking to describe "habitat" structurally rather than tree-by-tree which should make things smoother if not less contentious.


----------



## northmanlogging

Ya might be onto something there Hatte, trees don't have to be x years old for a sqvirral, to rest his um nuts on, it just has to have branches, From what I can tell flying sqvirrals just need some lift before jumping. Besides there little arm can't reach around an old growth stem anyway...:msp_wink:


----------



## madhatte

This "project" (I'll just call it that for simplicity's sake -- it's actually something else altogether but I don't feel like typing that much) is about Western Grey Squirrels in oak/fir woodlands at the margins of prairies and in forested former prairies. Real specific, I know. You'd think something specific would be easy to define. Well, we're doing better, I suppose, and everybody is getting along finally, but there is still some provincialism going on as well as less give than take on both sides. We all want what's "best" for the forest, it's just hard to agree on what that is.


----------



## OlympicYJ

northmanlogging said:


> Ya might be onto something there Hatte, trees don't have to be x years old for a sqvirral, to rest his um nuts on, it just has to have branches, From what I can tell flying sqvirrals just need some lift before jumping. Besides there little arm can't reach around an old growth stem anyway...:msp_wink:



And those tree truffles they like to eat can be found under 80yr old stuff taboot....:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## GRTimberCO

Today, for my full time job that pays most of the bills, I'm sitting in continuing education class on the National Electric Code. Uhgg ... Frikkin death by Power Point. Only 5 hours and 11 more minutes of listening to inspectors and contractors argue about what the definition of "Point of Protection" is on service lateral and overhead service entrance cable. I'm currently practicing Controlled Apathy. I look interested but couldn't tell you what they are talking about. In my mind I'm figuring out how to get that 40" DBH white oak that lightning hit on a flat trailer with no loader. I think I'm close to having it settled.


----------



## GRTimberCO

Now I think they have moved on to clearances at soffet or exterior wall. The old guy on the end of the front row is getting red faced. He must be in the soffet camp. RIVETING!!! I need a dip. They see me typing and think I'm looking up a code section. 5 hour 3 minutes to go. I wonder if UPS delivered my order from Bailey's yet. Do termites experience boredom?


----------



## GRTimberCO

I just realized the guy two rows up from me that looks like an out of shape Triple H is a women. Maybe, now I don't know. To be continued, stay tuned...


----------



## mile9socounty

Have a good time today bud. If you get too bored, head over to the Off Topic section.


----------



## floyd

those squirrels are losing in our neighborhood. They keep on catching the cars. Or is it the cars catching them?

Either way, they are losing.


----------



## madhatte

OlympicYJ said:


> And those tree truffles they like to eat can be found under 80yr old stuff taboot....:msp_rolleyes:



Or 30-year-old, where we saw digs yesterday. I'm of the opinion that wildlife folks like to make things more dramatic than they really are in order that they don't get totally blown off. I mean, really -- how much would I care about protecting any given common woodland creature that was doing just fine and wasn't in immediate danger of total extermination? Not a whole hell of a lot, I can say that. I'd likely worry more about a plant -- they can't move out of my way. Critters are conveniently mobile.


----------



## OlympicYJ

madhatte said:


> Or 30-year-old, where we saw digs yesterday. I'm of the opinion that wildlife folks like to make things more dramatic than they really are in order that they don't get totally blown off. I mean, really -- how much would I care about protecting any given common woodland creature that was doing just fine and wasn't in immediate danger of total extermination? Not a whole hell of a lot, I can say that. I'd likely worry more about a plant -- they can't move out of my way. Critters are conveniently mobile.



My point exactly. One thing with both though is us trying to save every little plant and tree worth it? There is supposed to be evolution where plants and critters go extinct. If a critter isn't adaptable then they were destined for extinction.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## OlympicYJ

Haywire said:


> On a lighter note, my wife busted out her new wood burning kit she got for Christmas and started decorating my old wedge beater.
> Not bad, eh? umpkin2:



I call dibs on the busted elk horn!


----------



## twochains

Haywire said:


> It took me many, many woods walking miles to stumble across that shed, I think I'll keep it for now.



Nice find! I pick up white tail sheds and skulls with horns whenever I run across them. One of my co-workers and I were talking about collecting sheds...he said in some states there is an actual season that is regulated for picking up elk sheds??? Ever heard of this? I'm thinking Colorado is where he might have been talking about. 

I saw on a t.v. show, "North law"??? anyway this woman called in what she though was a deer trap. It turned out to be a small section of chainlink formed into a half circle and deer feed was put along the bottom of the fence, Evidently this is to catch sheds! I have been in the woods my entire life and NEVER would have thought to do that! Awesome idea! 

Oh yeh...NICE AXE! LOL!


----------



## 1270d

When I lived in arizona I remember hearing of guys nialing 2 x4 s from tree to tree 4 or 5 feet above ground. Thhen put feed down inside the area. When elk would come in to feed they naturally bump their headgear, and if it was ripe enough, knock it off. Also heard it was illegal, whatever.


----------



## slowp

I collected them an easier way. I had a Golden Retriever who liked to go out and drag the sheds into the yard. The trick was to get them before she chewed them up.

On the critter note. I read an article today about how Wolverines are recovering well and moving back into
where they used to be. However, because they might could have trouble if the climate warms up, they are now candidates for the endangered species list. Heck, we all could be in danger from some catastrophe so maybe everything ought to go on that list. :msp_rolleyes:

A wildlife biologist to the south got in trouble because he would gather up the endangered slugs and snails and move them to the same type of habitat but out of harm's way on timber sales. Apparently that can't be done. 

Also, if you are ever out on a dog and pony show about an upcoming thinning, and a botanist starts in about the rare plants that are now on site, watch their face when you point out that the area was clearcut and burned 50 years ago and the plants seemed to have survived.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Also, if you are ever out on a dog and pony show about an upcoming thinning, and a botanist starts in about the rare plants that are now on site, watch their face when you point out that the area was clearcut and burned 50 years ago and the plants seemed to have survived.



When they start to stammer, searching for an answer, do you make a point out of looking at your watch...like you're timing their response?


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> Also, if you are ever out on a dog and pony show about an upcoming thinning, and a botanist starts in about the rare plants that are now on site, watch their face when you point out that the area was clearcut and burned 50 years ago and the plants seemed to have survived.



Fortunately, where I work, I get to be both the botanist and the forester, so that's not much of a problem. Outside of the fence? Different world. I do, however, have to keep track of the rare stuff and include adequate protections in pre-sale documentation and subsequent planning. One of my sales (should sell in the next couple of months) has the state-listed species _Pityopus californica_, or Pine-Foot, documented within its boundaries, but it hasn't been seen since 1997, and that documentation is now suspect. Nonetheless, I duly excluded 2 acres around the site where it was last spotted.


----------



## floyd

That's why there are fences.


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## northmanlogging

I'll be commuting to work in the missus today... jobs only a 1/4 mile from the house...


----------



## twochains

So...What's better than clear cutting for a farmer who can't run a chainsaw???? The same farmer being the bank Pres.!!! :msp_w00t: ....did I mention he pays cash?? BAAZING!!!


----------



## twochains

northmanlogging said:


> I'll be commuting to work in the missus today... jobs only a 1/4 mile from the house...



Being as that I already know from an earlier post that "the missus" is your skidder...I will refrain from making a crack at this post. LOL! :jester: rock on!


----------



## mile9socounty

Had a pretty good day cat logging today. Sorry no photos, but I could snap a few of the deck, stumps and cat. Having to use haywire, block and choker to pull the trees over with the cat. Don't want to risk hitting the house or anything else. Its pretty fun, slow going but fun. I'm flush cutting all the stumps that my friend is leaving so we don't break anything. Worked pretty good until we hit a small swell on the hillside. Broke everything. Nothing we could really do about it. Finally got far enough away from the swell that only the tops were busting. Learned some good stuff too. Back to it tomorrow. Who needs the super bowl?


----------



## northmanlogging

Besides a few yard trees, this is the first day after some heavy cutting since october. And the first day after running a skidder in 15+ years. Turns out I really am Fat... and out of shape.


----------



## mile9socounty

northmanlogging said:


> Besides a few yard trees, this is the first day after some heavy cutting since october. And the first day after running a skidder in 15+ years. Turns out I really am Fat... and out of shape.



Hey, round is a shape right? Doesn't that mean your in shape?


----------



## redprospector

northmanlogging said:


> Besides a few yard trees, this is the first day after some heavy cutting since october. And the first day after running a skidder in 15+ years. Turns out I really am Fat... and out of shape.



Hahaha. I remember when I realized I was fat...and lazy. Oh, you said out of shape. Well, you'll realize the rest before too long.  

Andy


----------



## twochains

I'm starting to feel it...3rd back to back 7 day week. No complaints...just a statement in the "Descriptive Process". My only complaint would be that I need to hire a part-time pimp due to me whoring it out all over Hell's half acre.


----------



## madhatte

OK, let me get this straight... soil compaction causes water to back up because it interrupts natural percolation (yes, water is complicating a sale due to old roads). BUT -- if enough water builds up behind a compacted site, it becomes a wetland that must be protected rather than repaired? How does this make any sense at all? Also worth noting is the fact that we're not DOT and don't plan complicated enough road layouts to need to mitigate for wetlands ahead of time. Why can't I just drop in a few culverts and OHHH because then it would drain and ARRRRGGGHHHH so stupid.


----------



## Jacob J.

madhatte said:


> Why can't I just drop in a few culverts and OHHH because then it would drain and ARRRRGGGHHHH so stupid.



Nothing like some circular logic to make sale planning go down smooth.


----------



## madhatte

Ain't a bettin' man, but if I was, I'd put money on my having a go-round or two with the F&W folks, the roads folks, and maybe even the archaeologist before I get paint on anything. I see now why this sale got postponed a bunch of years ago. Nobody had the stones to actually do it.


----------



## RiverRat2

northmanlogging said:


> its 22 deg outside, fire went out last night so its about 40 deg inside the house...



That'll get ya movin in tha mornin to stoke the fire ehhh??


----------



## 2dogs

RiverRat2 said:


> That'll get ya movin in tha mornin to stoke the fire ehhh??



Lakeside53? Really?


----------



## 2dogs

So when I went to put a load of clean laundry on Cody's dresser there were two quarts of TruFuel 50:1 sitting there. Should I yell at him for being stupid and bringing gasoline into the house or hug him because it was gasoline and not booze. Cody is a great kid. A geek too. He would rather run a saw or read his historical fantasy books or coach wrestling than go out with his friends. His friends are pretty cool too. He hates drugs and alcohol almost as much as I do.


----------



## northmanlogging

So I'm trying to find a log bumper for the missus, either I am stoopid or the scrap yards have never read a parts manual, I've been corrected twice now for not calling them fenders... so far looks like it might be cheaper to just build one even if it looks like poopy...


----------



## twochains

I was cutting a stand of hickory today. I dropped the tops all toward each other making a little mess . I was running one of my "nasty chains" (rakers ground too short) and I guess I cut a half dollar size limb twice. The 6in long piece of limb caught on the bottom of the chain while WFO and hurled that little beasty right in to the inside of my knee!!!  It hit my ACL I guess and warped the ground almost puking. It was BAD!

Funny part of it...well, I didn't realize it was funny till on my way home, but the land owner was about 15 yards from me when I did it. Here's the funny part, he was fairly well on his way to being drunk, and had been calling crows. He saw me drop and I guess yelled out but had the crow call in his mouth!! :hmm3grin2orange: So basically instead of s###t, he skawked like a crow! :hmm3grin2orange: Kind of locational, but holy crap that's funny!


----------



## mile9socounty

Haywire said:


> If you say so!



What Haywire said? :confused2:


----------



## Samlock

Had the falling/chainsaw test yesterday. Notifications: Drop start X5 (I did the crotch start once and I thought that was enough for the record), a too deep notch (I didn't want a head leaning aspen with a heavy crown chair on me and the inspector told being afraid the tree's going to go before me grinding the back), a hinge too narrow (It was well over 1/2'' on the thick end), stiff knees when limbing (I had a 2' bar) + safety goggles hanging on my neck X2.

Passed the test, anyhow. Barely.


----------



## floyd

I did my time in one those gulches east of T Falls. I was single. I spent time off in Missoula. I think. It's all little blurry now. Was then as well.

Back then Champion was busy mining yellow pine somewhere north of T Falls. Usually 50 or so cars/train. All yellow pine. None smaller than 24". And then...once again...they headed west...to their next conquest.

So, is Champion Plum Creek spelled backwards, or what?


----------



## floyd

Eyes on the prize. You got the ticket.
Carry on.


----------



## slowp

There are cheery whistles making noise in my neighborhood. BUT, they have scary signs telling everybody to stay the heck out and off their roads.:msp_sad: Both of my dog walking, fat burning walking routes are now off limits. Guess I'll drive to Chehalis and go to Burger King. :msp_sad:


----------



## floyd

Just recall old times...walk over to the edge &step off. Remember to grab ther brush as you slide by.


----------



## northmanlogging

Just put on yer old fs hat and walk around like you know whats going on while shaking you're head and making notes in a fake note book... if you look really unhappy nobody will want to find out what they did wrong and will leave you alone right...?


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> Just put on yer old fs hat and walk around like you know whats going on while shaking you're head and making notes in a fake note book... if you look really unhappy nobody will want to find out what they did wrong and will leave you alone right...?



There is a strange glow to the east. 

I have a harder, slippier, alternate route that I can go on that will allow me to bypass (I think) the logging operation. I know the Forest Patrol guy, but not the foresters. The Patrol guy sometimes asks me if I've seen stuff because I wander around back there at least once a week. 

Hmmm. I think I best see what that glow to the east is. I last saw it in.....southern Oregon.


----------



## Samlock

Fixing the busted crummy's starter took seven days instead of planned two. They delivered 2 times a wrong kind of starter (parts numbers matched, yet didn't fit). Fixing worn out screw threads in the clutch case took another day too.

Well, the lag gave me a chance to catch up my studies. I have yet Red Cross first aid training scheduled on Tuesday. I guess it never hurts to update first aid skills - It's just means next week I got to exist in three locations at the same time.


----------



## northmanlogging

*EEE-ee-eeww!*

I hate greasy grimmy messes, makes my skin crawl. but somewhere in this mess is a tach cable that I wanna change, and check out my hydro lines...

Found a rag in there somwhere...


----------



## redprospector

northmanlogging said:


> I hate greasy grimmy messes, makes my skin crawl. but somewhere in this mess is a tach cable that I wanna change, and check out my hydro lines...
> 
> Found a rag in there somwhere...



A pressure washer is a necessary investment if you're going to own a skidder. You might want to move that oil pressure gauge up to the dash too. Need to be watching that as much as the tach.

Andy


----------



## northmanlogging

yeah not real sure why the oil gauge is hiding down there behind, the side cover... guess so you can check and make sure its still say zero before you check the oil... That will be moved in time... Half the problem is that the last cover is welded to the frame( behind the cage brace) so I had to dig in from the top down, took 3 hours... and the hood and side covers are still in the driveway. should have taken about 20 mins, but a 1/32 of a turn with needle nose pliers, not fun.

Still need to check into fixing fuel gauge, and getting something resembling lights, and take a look at one of the steer cylinders, its a workable machine now, just want it to be tip top before abusing it for 40 more years...


----------



## madhatte

Mild winter = early mosquitoes


----------



## northmanlogging

found the problem with the leaky steer cylinder... it is just a hose! only problem it was an aftermarket gyppo fix, and I need much smaller hands and longer arms to get to it. Its between the trany and the frame above the steer cylinder, so pulling the belly pan gets me nowhere... might get it with two people that are very comfortable with being stuck in a tight place with each other...:msp_wub:


----------



## OlympicYJ

Well I am in the middle of doing laundry and last minute things to get ready for the Oregon Logging Conference. Leavin tomarrow :msp_tongue:


----------



## mile9socounty

I'm looking forward to our first road tomorrow on a 046. :redface:


----------



## Samlock

northmanlogging said:


> found the problem with the leaky steer cylinder... it is just a hose! only problem it was an aftermarket gyppo fix, and I need much smaller hands and longer arms to get to it. Its between the trany and the frame above the steer cylinder, so pulling the belly pan gets me nowhere... might get it with two people that are very comfortable with being stuck in a tight place with each other...:msp_wub:



Hire a chimp.


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## Gologit

Samlock said:


> Hire a chimp.



I dunno about that...they work cheap but they don't bathe real regular.


----------



## Samlock

Gologit said:


> I dunno about that...they work cheap but they don't bathe real regular.



Nothing that a pressure washer wouldn't fix.


----------



## Gologit

Samlock said:


> Nothing that a pressure washer wouldn't fix.



Ha. I'd like to see that on video.  Especially the part where the chimp takes offense at the whole procedure, takes the pressure washer away and starts flailing the guy with it.


----------



## Joe46

Gologit said:


> Ha. I'd like to see that on video.  Especially the part where the chimp takes offense at the whole procedure, takes the pressure washer away and starts flailing the guy with it.



Right turn Clyde!


OK so he was an Orangutan:biggrin:


----------



## northmanlogging

Its a Fact...

Clint Eastwood worked as a logger before becoming an actor...


----------



## 4x4American

northmanlogging said:


> Its a Fact...
> 
> Clint Eastwood worked as a logger before becoming an actor...



Cite your sources!


----------



## 4x4American

Donno ifen this fits in this here thread, but, yesterday whilst a red oak was falling to the ground, I seen a skwerl pop outta a hole in the tree and jump, winning a losing race. It was cool, bossman yelled out "that's how them bastards get evicted!" I looked all over for the skwerl for a lunchtime treat but couldnt find him


----------



## northmanlogging

I didn't go to no college... but heres my sources...


Clint Eastwood - Biography

"A former logger, steel furnace stoker and gas station attendant before becoming an actor"

Its about half way through the trivia section,

also in the cast bio of most of his recent work.

cheers :msp_tongue:


----------



## 4x4American

northmanlogging said:


> I didn't go to no college... but heres my sources...
> 
> 
> Clint Eastwood - Biography
> 
> "A former logger, steel furnace stoker and gas station attendant before becoming an actor"
> 
> Its about half way through the trivia section,
> 
> also in the cast bio of most of his recent work.
> 
> cheers :msp_tongue:



well I'll be!


----------



## northmanlogging

We got a wonderful mix of hail snow wind an lightning last night, its sleeting now and hovering around 32-33 deg... ick


----------



## slowp

There was slush on the ground this morning. We're getting the occasional sucker hole. I've got lots of stuff to do both in and out.

Right now it is sleeting. The Used Dog was lying in a beam of sunlight a minute ago. 

Embrace the weather! We have to!


----------



## madhatte

Awful lot of ice breakage in this stand. Clear evidence of the big storms in '78, '96, and '12. Can't decide whether to take a bunch of the busted ones or leave 'em to develop a complex canopy structure over time. Probably do some of both. The alder have been totally decimated. It's a weird patch of ground, with rocks and madrone up top and cattail marsh at the bottom, and everything in between. Perched wetland terraces break up steep dry slopes. Oh, and is this sleet at 350 ft and 50F? It will be good to put some light on the ground. Lots of understory seedlings.


----------



## northmanlogging

had the week off from the machine shop (jury doodie...), first day back was today, no machines running, two or three people homes sick or dying..., half of everything they ran while I was gone is scrap, boss man ties me in and leaves...

Had everything back to normal by noon...

I was planning on taking a week or two off this summer to get some bigger (for me) logging jobs cleaned up but I'm not sure I'll ever get a vacation again....


----------



## paccity

northmanlogging said:


> had the week off from the machine shop (jury doodie...), first day back was today, no machines running, two or three people homes sick or dying..., half of everything they ran while I was gone is scrap, boss man ties me in and leaves...
> 
> Had everything back to normal by noon...
> 
> I was planning on taking a week or two off this summer to get some bigger (for me) logging jobs cleaned up but I'm not sure I'll ever get a vacation again....



don't you know how to be very opinionated when interviewed for jury doodie.


----------



## northmanlogging

paccity said:


> don't you know how to be very opinionated when interviewed for jury doodie.



I figure at least one person that does not believe everything a uniform tells them should be present... having read some of the police statements involving me... really for a bunch of jack booted thugs they can be quite creative


disclaimer: I've met good cops, bad cops, and crooked cops. Its the crooked ones that have the best stories


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## OlympicYJ

So far have avoided jury duty because of college and I figure having a little age on me before I do my civic duty to be a plus as well. It's flat scary who they get on jury duty though. Being opinionated will get ya off but shows you're smart, that's not what the lawyers want (depending on prosecution or defense) and the majority of the good folk on jury duty are not that bright. My dad likes to recall the only time he was on jury duty that someone brought up something they saw on a Matlock show to apply to the case before them.... scary :help:


----------



## Gologit

FSTEP Hired Vendor class today. :msp_rolleyes: Maybe they'll have do-nuts.


----------



## floyd

I found a sinkhole by a culvert I put in the early 90's. I was walking with the damn dogs. I know I could have found it without them.


----------



## slowp

Not since Wisconsin have I had this happen! I went on what was supposed to be a pleasant, strenuous walk in the woods. I got home, felt something on my neck and found TWO ticks crawling on me! Then one on the couch, then I ran fingers through my hair and more of the buggers fell out--went in for a shower and more were scurrying about. 

I have swept off the Used Dog but will most likely find some on him when they get bigger. Dark colored dogs are difficult to detick. 

Icky!!!!:msp_ohmy::msp_ohmy:


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## OlympicYJ

Holy smokes. Would not of expected em to have been out this early! Musta been that heat wave.

I hear ya. They are no fun. Ones on humans I've seen came from skinin out elk. Hardly ever hear of people just randomly getting em on them when walking. Dogs yes but not humans so much.


----------



## slowp

I haven't found any on The Used Dog, yet. Last night, I felt the bite of doom and pulled one out. Just a bite causes a 2 inch diameter bump. Owie, whine whine whine I'll never be a welder...whine whine. 

The route of that walk has me ducking under some brush and getting brushed by brush until I hit the road system. Not much brush, but enough for the evil empire of ticks. Gawd I hate them. I think I'll move to Seattle! And sell used rigging clothes.


----------



## forestryworks

Aside from the woodlands, ticks also show up in grasslands where people don't burn. A good ol' backfire will really wipe out certain tick species for a growing season.

Have drip torch, will travel.


----------



## twochains

We need a large burn off here in our National forests. The ticks will be beyond belief here in a couple weeks. A buddy of mine saw a doe whitetail come down to the river for a drink, he noticed she looked funny, her ears were an entire wad of ticks...so bad her ears were drooped straight down. 

If we don't use ALOT of tick spray (40% Deet) we get covered...and I'm talkin' look down your pants leg and see 20 racing up your jeans. Not even forgetting when they hatch into seed ticks! I have seen my pants with hundreds of seed ticks in large clouds moving in mass up both pant legs at a time. Trick is to snap off a ERC limb and swat the piss out of your legs...they will all come off, works amazingly well.

About 7 years ago I was logging one summer and had been building fence on my place. I got very sick, and for me that is unheard of. I suffer from headaches on a regular basis, but this headache was pushing my brain out the stem. I went to the ER over it actually. The ER doctor said she was concerned because I was 30 and in such good shape... I was shaking, blurry vision etc. She asked if she could do a spinal tap. I was like fricken do something...I'm gonna die right here! She gave me a shot of morphine and pulled some spinal fluid. Long story short, a week later I was released from the hospital having suffered tick fever. It was horrible! They said my brain had swelled to the point it was trying to poke down m spinal column! Dang!


----------



## forestryworks

twochains said:


> We need a large burn off here in our National forests. The ticks will be beyond belief here in a couple weeks. A buddy of mine saw a doe whitetail come down to the river for a drink, he noticed she looked funny, her ears were an entire wad of ticks...so bad her ears were drooped straight down.



I spent a year and a half in Eastern Oklahoma near Red Oak. Hardly anyone in the East burns like they should, and one way to tell if fire has been absent in the woods for a long time, is seeing an abundance of Maple, Elm, and Basswoods. The clock is ticking in the East, if they don't start regular burning soon, you can kiss the Oaks goodbye - they are fire dependent.

The same goes for the Midwest and other Oak regions in the US.

Check out this excellent article on why fire is needed in the East: Species shift looms in fire-starved Eastern woods


----------



## timberland ts

Ticks are terrible in the northeast another couple weeks and you do a tick check every night. My son got lyme disease for a tick bite when he was in pre k got really sick. Big antibiotics cleared it up. Around here if you have a tick on you and are not sure how long you go get meds. At the house we keep guniea hens around to clear up the ticks.


----------



## twochains

forestryworks said:


> I spent a year and a half in Eastern Oklahoma near Red Oak. Hardly anyone in the East burns like they should, and one way to tell if fire has been absent in the woods for a long time, is seeing an abundance of Maple, Elm, and Basswoods. The clock is ticking in the East, if they don't start regular burning soon, you can kiss the Oaks goodbye - they are fire dependent.
> 
> The same goes for the Midwest and other Oak regions in the US.
> 
> Check out this excellent article on why fire is needed in the East: Species shift looms in fire-starved Eastern woods



Awesome read! Yes, I forsee a total loss of mature red Oak within the next decade! Disease, beetles, and drought all thrown together are taking a big toll. I mostly log oak and I would gather that 40% of what I cut is sick in some way. That combined with a devistating ice storm in '09, has wrecked the oak species in our area. Don't get me wrong, we have perfectly good timber, but I see alot of damage.

I own 54 acres of woods, predominately hardwood. I have around 27 acres of future red oak, white oak, and hickory that I have been petting for the last 10 years. With routine burning and thinning out the junk, this track will be unbelievable one day. These trees are all about the same age and height, grown together like dog hair. They are tall and slick, should be top notch trees.


----------



## slowp

They merely take one bite out of me and then I puff up. It is worse than a bee sting. I felt the little bugger as soon as he chomped. I'll have an uncomfotable day or two and then the swelling will go down and the itch will start up. 

I found nothing on The Used Dog. He's usually the one to get the ticks.


----------



## twochains

WOW!!! What a difference working with a good crew! These guys are awesome, and I really enjoy falling for them! Wish I had hooked up with them sooner!


----------



## floyd

All it took was a few good men to make fire a 4 letter word. 

There was a 40ac burn in the Gorge a few yrs ago. It went well - mgmt objectives achieved. Had to look all over for a story on it.



Come to the Gorge & I will show you why I went to selling ton wood instead of scale. About 60 yrs ago there was a bad ice storm. Could not keep them in the cylinder for 41 feet. So tonwood it was.

Long ago, in another galaxy, they actually sorted at the sort yard.


----------



## mile9socounty

Nothing like V leading with butt rigging on a 046 Madill tower. Running 2, 40 footers on a ground pound show right now. I'm loving it too. What else can I say?


----------



## twochains

So...I tried something today...I mounted my helmet cam to my hard hat and dropped some trees. I haven't uploaded them yet, so I don't really know how well it worked. I know one thing for sure...a camera on your work can bring out the tree gremlins! Knowing I had the camera on seemed more like a burden than anything. I wanted to make a vid and actually make it look like I knew what I was doing...I just kept messing up :msp_sad:. I'm a little apprehensive to post them up for pro loggers to view. One thing for sure...if they don't look good I just won't post them. About 15 min before I turned the camera on I broke my spencer tape and had to mark my tie cuts with my saw. The entire time I was thinking, "Oh geez, this is gonna raise some criticism. I'm gonna see how they look and go from there. One thing about it, there is always a better day, and I can always hope to have a little better luck.


----------



## slowp

Rabbifravitzmumblecurse...The weather forecast for today was that it would be dark and stormy. I started a batch of Old Riggin' Pants brand salsa going. 

It is cloudy, but quite dry and pleasant outside, and I am now committed to hanging out INDOORS and jumping up to stir the salsa now and then, for several hours, and then another hour or so to can it. 

The weather forecast was inaccurate. Imagine that!


----------



## 4x4American

slowp said:


> Rabbifravitzmumblecurse...The weather forecast for today was that it would be dark and stormy. I started a batch of Old Riggin' Pants brand salsa going.
> 
> It is cloudy, but quite dry and pleasant outside, and I am now committed to hanging out INDOORS and jumping up to stir the salsa now and then, for several hours, and then another hour or so to can it.
> 
> The weather forecast was inaccurate. Imagine that!



I don't know about out your way, but out my way, the weather forecasts have been really inaccurate so far this year.


----------



## marimus

4x4American said:


> I don't know about out your way, but out my way, the weather forecasts have been really inaccurate so far this year.




Sure been the case down here this summer. 

I managed to sever the tendon in my right index finger on friday. surgeon has split my finger open to re-attach it but apparently it is a very weak repair for about 3 months. The first six weeks I have to wear a plastic splint to keep it straight, as the tendon can't even support the finger yet.

So 3 months no saws, no work. :msp_unsure:

On the bright side, i'm learning a whole new skillset with my left hand, such as putting my pants on. Oh boy that took some jiggling and carrying on the first few days :smile2:


----------



## 4x4American

marimus said:


> Sure been the case down here this summer.
> 
> I managed to sever the tendon in my right index finger on friday. surgeon has split my finger open to re-attach it but apparently it is a very weak repair for about 3 months. The first six weeks I have to wear a plastic splint to keep it straight, as the tendon can't even support the finger yet.
> 
> So 3 months no saws, no work. :msp_unsure:
> 
> On the bright side, i'm learning a whole new skillset with my left hand, such as putting my pants on. Oh boy that took some jiggling and carrying on the first few days :smile2:



I know all about learning new skills with a different hand...I was told that it makes your brain smarter somehow by using the other hand for things that you normally use the other hand for. I caught a falling 250lbs beam whilst saving a coworkers hide once and it crushed my left hand, had three broke fingers, a really expensive surgery that workermans comp paid for luckily, 4 pins through my fingers...I learned that even though my left hand isnt my dominant hand, it still has its own daily tasks that was hard for my right hand to learn..the night after the surgery, I remember waking up not know where my left hand was because they put local anesthesia in my left arm (they also gave me general anesthesia) and that local anesthesia takes quite awhile to wear off, anyways, I reached up with my right hand and turned on the light and my left hand was dern near touching my face, made me jump a bit haha..

I know that AS follows the pics or it didn't happen law so here are some pics during random stages of my recovery.
View attachment 284474
View attachment 284475
View attachment 284476


----------



## madhatte

Did a thing today that I hoped to never do -- I went back to paper for field cruise data. Between hardware standards issues and operating system licensing hassles and various other problems, field computers have always been problematic. I finally just got tired of it, and decided to take a stab at doing it old-school. For the first time in I don't even remember how long, I left the truck without any computer devices at all, save my work phone and radio. It was honestly refreshing to take good notes on paper with no formatting restrictions and no crashes, to fall back into the familiar rhythm of pacing between plots, and to feel the satisfaction of coming out on the other side of the unit exactly where I expected to be. I haven't figured out a good non-digital way to do 3P cruises yet, so I'll most likely be using the computer for marking, but at least on volume/inventory type cruises, I think I may be done with electronics. This actually hurts my sense of progress, but the years just haven't brought good field computer solutions. In fact, they are barely better than they were 20 years ago. They weigh less, and the battery lasts longer, and the screens aren't as affected by temperature change or glare, but the basic tabular structure of the data hasn't changed, so neither the hardware nor the software interfaces have done so, either. I am very disappointed. 

If you're curious -- THIS is the notebook I'm using. I am paper-clipping a map into the inside front cover, and rubber-banding the current page to open automatically. Left side has tree data and ground notes, right side has log data in 16-foot logs. There are spaces for 16 logs there, but I only number 1-12 since that's about the tallest I see on this ground. I would make an exception if I needed to... which is EXACTLY the sort of thing computers aren't good for and paper is. 

I would love it if Moleskine would make THIS notebook in Rite-In-The-Rain paper; I wrote them several times asking for exactly that but have never received so much as a "Thank you for your interest" response. For now, I'll use the one I've got. It's a damn sight better than the stupid computers I've been doing battle with for so long, even if I DO have to commit to manual data entry later. I know I'm trading one headache for the other, but at least it means less aggravation outdoors, which is where I would rather be anyway.


----------



## slowp

Nate, are you 3P cruising by yourself? 

We did it pre-datarecorder, and with big sheets of random numbers printed on write in the rain paper.
Oh, and lots of yelling. Lots.


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> Nate, are you 3P cruising by yourself?
> 
> We did it pre-datarecorder, and with big sheets of random numbers printed on write in the rain paper.
> Oh, and lots of yelling. Lots.



Lookin' like we don't get a crew this year, so yeah, I'll be doing 3P solo. I've done it before, plenty, but never without a computer. I don't know that it's a good idea to try it on paper -- I'd just cover the damn sheets with paint anyway. I might try it anyway, though, just to be grudgey and all.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Hey Nate, have you tried the binders with the looseleaf? pretty handy cuz you can take the notes out and put them on your cruise report plus you don't have to carry the whole book to get wet. Just enough sheets and that's it. I've got two the big one and the little one. Recommend the little one, it's easier to work with and the rings are smaller so don't get in the way.

Oh using the individual sheets on a small tatum and then transferring to the field binder works okay too if you want a more solid writing surface.

Wes


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> Lookin' like we don't get a crew this year, so yeah, I'll be doing 3P solo. I've done it before, plenty, but never without a computer. I don't know that it's a good idea to try it on paper -- I'd just cover the damn sheets with paint anyway. I might try it anyway, though, just to be grudgey and all.



But, but but...how will you keep the random numbers secret? They need to be secret to keep the cruise unbiased. 

We had a crew and a tally person who kept track of volumes hollered out and when a cruise tree was triggered. The random numbers were on a big old sheet of paper that they carried. 

During deer season, we got some hunters mad because of all the yelling we had to do.


----------



## hammerlogging

slowp said:


> But, but but...how will you keep the random numbers secret? They need to be secret to keep the cruise unbiased.
> 
> We had a crew and a tally person who kept track of volumes hollered out and when a cruise tree was triggered. The random numbers were on a big old sheet of paper that they carried.
> 
> During deer season, we got some hunters mad because of all the yelling we had to do.



There is no such thing as random.


----------



## slowp

hammerlogging said:


> There is no such thing as random.



Whatever. Then call it computer generated list of volumes/numbers.


----------



## forestryworks

madhatte said:


> If you're curious -- THIS is the notebook I'm using.



THE best field note books money can buy!


----------



## madhatte

forestryworks said:


> THE best field note books money can buy!



Wondering now how I'd missed these for so long. They really are a quality product.


----------



## twochains

Had to work at the boss' farm on a fence line pushed out with dozers and an track hoe. FUN FUN! The skidder op didn't show up today so guess who had double duty :rolleyes2:! If cutting logs out of that crap wasn't exciting enough ie. dirt on logs, horrid pressures on limbs and tops and stumps...the skidding them out of that swamped up mess made up for it. It was kinda funny, my boss paid me at noon and gave me a nice bonus, knowing that the logs needed out due to incoming rain for tonight, I stayed with it for a straight 12 hours, finished it. Needless to say but I'm whooped. 

Hope everyone had a good week! Cheers!  (I'm gonna watch it rain 2moro :msp_biggrin


----------



## Samlock

I liked that: "...boss paid me at noon and gave me a big bonus."


----------



## DavdH

Did the vacation thing (snow to 70* in New Mexico last weekend), got that all done until we go to cruise the inland passage to Alaska the last week of May. Now we are waiting for the spotted owls to finish breeding, then we have to check for little ones then we can begin thinking about going back to work. I know they changed the rules but this is Calif. and we still have to feed the barred owls, looks like lots of barred owl food 
(new spotted owls) because the weather has been perfect for several weeks. By the way thiey don't prefer old growth stands or they would all move into the parks.


----------



## northmanlogging

Here it is 2nd day of spring, had all sorts of plans for working outside, first friday off in 2 months and its snowing... hard... I need a shop.


----------



## twochains

northmanlogging said:


> Here it is 2nd day of spring, had all sorts of plans for working outside, first friday off in 2 months and its snowing... hard... I need a shop.



Dude we got 6in last night...it was freaking 80* last Friday and Sat! Our weather looks like a heart monitor...soon it will level out at 100*...woo hoo!


----------



## northmanlogging

Some tweeker got into the crummy last night, made off with my wrenches back pack and, wait for it The glow plugs that I was planning on putting in this morning...

The wrenches I can understand but who steels glow plugs WTF. Should have been done before noon, but here it is 3:40 and I'm just now finishing up.


----------



## slowp

I got busted in beautiful downtown Randle.  I had a load of firewood that I cut on my friend's place. It is not very pretty alder that has been in a slash pile for a year but will be good to burn next winter. I saw the Forest Service cops and I waved. However, they were unaware who I was-- I have a different pickup now. When I pulled out on the highway, the lights went on behind me so I pulled into one of the vacant gas stations. When I got out and he got out we were both laughing. It turned into retirement counseling--I was the counselor because the LEO has to retire in May. 

Then the other one pulled in and the soon to retire one said he got dibs on my chainsaw--a joke. People were driving by and gawking so I started yelling, NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE, and more laughter ensued. Pretty soon somebody else went by with some firewood so off the one went, and we soon ended the retirement seminar. 

He said that all the locally known bad guys seem to wave when they drive by. Next time I'll honk.


----------



## 4x4American

northmanlogging said:


> Some tweeker got into the crummy last night, made off with my wrenches back pack and, wait for it The glow plugs that I was planning on putting in this morning...
> 
> The wrenches I can understand but who steels glow plugs WTF. Should have been done before noon, but here it is 3:40 and I'm just now finishing up.



That bites man! I hate #######s that steal...I got my game camera stolen not too long ago and my neighbor told me his got stolen too. My camera was on private land that I hunt and my neighbors was too, about 200 feet from his front door. I own 3 acres of woods that butts up with 30 acres of private land owned by a jewish camp place and that property borders 1600 acres of county land. Lots of people hunt this land so theres really no telling who came into the private land and took our cameras. Mine was not locked but my neighbors was. The day I found my camera stolen I was madder than a bear with a bee in his arse.


----------



## 4x4American

slowp said:


> I got busted in beautiful downtown Randle.  I had a load of firewood that I cut on my friend's place. It is not very pretty alder that has been in a slash pile for a year but will be good to burn next winter. I saw the Forest Service cops and I waved. However, they were unaware who I was-- I have a different pickup now. When I pulled out on the highway, the lights went on behind me so I pulled into one of the vacant gas stations. When I got out and he got out we were both laughing. It turned into retirement counseling--I was the counselor because the LEO has to retire in May.
> 
> Then the other one pulled in and the soon to retire one said he got dibs on my chainsaw--a joke. People were driving by and gawking so I started yelling, NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE, and more laughter ensued. Pretty soon somebody else went by with some firewood so off the one went, and we soon ended the retirement seminar.
> 
> He said that all the locally known bad guys seem to wave when they drive by. Next time I'll honk.



Sounds like a fun time! I was wondering, do them fellers stop every truck with firewood in it? What are they checking for?


----------



## slowp

Ah, good usage of the word fellers. I believe they were checking every load of firewood. They were checking for permits, except I didn't need a permit because my load came off private property. Every once in a while, they park in that place and check. However, that location is a ways from the forest boundary.


----------



## 4x4American

slowp said:


> Ah, good usage of the word fellers. I believe they were checking every load of firewood. They were checking for permits, except I didn't need a permit because my load came off private property. Every once in a while, they park in that place and check. However, that location is a ways from the forest boundary.



Ahh I see I see, said the blind man to his deaf son


----------



## hammerlogging

slowp said:


> Whatever. Then call it computer generated list of volumes/numbers.



Pardon, you missed my invitation to the esoteric and philosophical. Want to come anyhow?


----------



## slowp

hammerlogging said:


> Pardon, you missed my invitation to the esoteric and philosophical. Want to come anyhow?



Nah, I'm not smart enough.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Spent most of my day working on the new girlfriends pick up. Toyota really needs to get their ^%&* together when it comes to making spark plugs easy to change! At least on the V6's What should have been a quick job turned into a several hour ordeal! Hard to get to and thought the last one was cross threaded when taking it out, it was just cruddy and the new one with some Marvels on the threads went in slick as snot. Add to that crappy Napa wires that I just replaced in Colfax on our way to Kennewick on Friday... they warrantied out the old ones otherwise I would have gone with a different brand. Went back to my place and got the jeep and got us there.

On a good note she can drive a stick and my death trap of a jeep really well. Got sleepy so let her drive for a lil while on the way back.

To keep this somewhat forestry related she's a forester too!  I say forester cuz she graduates in May lol She's keeping me supplied with baked goods, she has a slight baking habit... and well I have a bad sweet tooth so it works out pretty good :wink2:

Hope everyone had a good weekend!

Wes


----------



## Gologit

OlympicYJ said:


> On a good note she can drive a stick and my death trap of a jeep really well. Got sleepy so let her drive for a lil while on the way back.
> 
> To keep this somewhat forestry related she's a forester too!  I say forester cuz she graduates in May lol She's keeping me supplied with baked goods, she has a slight baking habit... and well I have a bad sweet tooth so it works out pretty good :wink2:
> 
> Hope everyone had a good weekend!
> 
> Wes



She can drive a stick and bake? Hang on to that one.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Bob there is a whole lot more good about this gal. I'm thinkin keeper myself. We share brain waves it's kinda scary. She's a good cook too! Shoots and the whole shebang. Didn't freak out when the jeep decided to swap ends on a FS road out in the woods sat, not to mention the drop off on my side. I was pinchin leather but she was calm about the whole thing, she figured I knew what I was doin! :msp_biggrin: Bunch of us went shootin and well a fresh skim of snow on frozen snow/ice wasn't a good thing with a short jeep. Wasn't drivin too fast either!

She can grind gears pretty darn well I must say!

Wes


----------



## RandyMac

My farkin' arthritis is killing me, thinking of knee-capping a hippie. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## OlympicYJ

RandyMac said:


> My farkin' arthritis is killing me, thinking of knee-capping a hippie. :msp_biggrin:



Video or it didn't happen! But I'd still believe ya Randy 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## northmanlogging

I may have stumbled on to a silvey jack replacement today... gotta do some research and see what comes of it... they will still cost over a 1k... but its a well known name in the tool biz...


----------



## floyd

Careful you don't take your shoulder out doing it.


----------



## twochains

Ahhhhh! Beautiful day in the Ozarks! 71*, slight breeze, excellent pine set...doesn't get much better! 


knee capping a hippie could be pretty righteous though! :msp_w00t: Thanks RandyMac for sharing that thought!


----------



## DavdH

The spotted owls are all accounted for so we can start logging in earnest Monday, of course it is 79* today and it is supposed to turn into April showers for the next 2 weeks or more. I will just be present for the next couple weeks due to weather.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## northmanlogging

I love traipsing through the brush, and when you find that nice deep hole to step into, the one branch you have to keep from going arse over teakettle... is a Himalayan black berry...


----------



## twochains

Epic day in the Ozarks! Phenomenal timber...averaging (5) 9'4 tie cuts and a 20' piece of scrag per tree! :msp_w00t:


----------



## madhatte

Was that Poison-Oak I just pulled tape around? Of COURSE it was.


----------



## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> Was that Poison-Oak I just pulled tape around? Of COURSE it was.



Wait we have Poison Oak out here S O B...


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Wait we have Poison Oak out here S O B...



South Sound, yes, in a few places, namely around Ft Lewis... but I'm in Corvallis this week. Double-damn!


----------



## RandyMac

madhatte said:


> South Sound, yes, in a few places, namely around Ft Lewis... but I'm in *Corvallis *this week. Double-damn!



Sorry Nate, better have a shot of whiskey.


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> Sorry Nate, better have a shot of whiskey.



Done and done. Drinkin' a McMenamin's Sunflower IPA from the pub across the street in my motel room now. Did you know they're bottling now? I didn't.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Done and done. Drinkin' a McMenamin's Sunflower IPA from the pub across the street in my motel room now. Did you know they're bottling now? I didn't.



Have one for me. Just one though...if you have any more than that...for me...I might get rowdy.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Sorry Nate, better have a shot of whiskey.



We'll be going through your town early tomorrow morning. I'll honk.


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> Just one though...if you have any more than that...for me...I might get rowdy.



No promises. Sometimes I'm contrary for contrary's sake. Got to keep the "loggers vs foresters" rivalry healthy, dontcha know.


----------



## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> We'll be going through your town early tomorrow morning. I'll honk.



Fog to the ground Boss, be careful.


----------



## slowp

We hung out at the Peacock in downtown Corvallis. I think it has been "gentrified" since. That was before microbrews arrived.  

I don' remember no poison oak, but I don't break out from it so there coulda been. The woods we went to seemed quite gentle.


----------



## madhatte

The Peacock, or "Cock", is a fratboy joint now, apparently. I will not be investigating further.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> The Peacock, or "Cock", is a fratboy joint now, apparently. I will not be investigating further.



How sad. 

What about Squirrel's? That was the hippy bar.


----------



## twochains

There are lots of people in life you have to show respect to. When logging, two come to mind...your boss and the land owner. I have always worked Sundays, having to NOT work Sundays due to "a day of rest", has pretty much pissed me off for today. My Dad always said, "You can carry your cross...but don't let it swing around and hit me in the ass". When you are trying to make a living... NO DAY should be lost. Going to be 72* today, beautiful, no wind, and yet here I sit at the house! Unbelievable! :msp_angry: Wish I could rig up a silencer for my saw and go stealth mode!


----------



## jrcat

Ahhh descriptive process....... I am stuck at home with my girlfriend who is somewhat disgruntled, as I have not spent much time with her this week. Its sunny and warm with trees to be cut and 25mph wind gusts.


----------



## northmanlogging

Got the day off from the machine shop, so what do I do... split a cord and a half of maple and pressure wash the missus, turns out under all that gunk and crust shes yellow, and green, and black


----------



## slowp

I checked the radar. It looked like it would be dry for a bit so I started burning limbs from the hemlock. Soon as I got things going, the sky opened up. I had a great mushroom cloud going. I was soaked except for what was under the raincoat so decided to come inside. I am watching it from a window, it might burn enough to keep going....I'm being upbeat. Meanwhile, things are spread around the woodstove to dry a bit.


----------



## jrcat

I thought I was going to cut another load out today but decided against it. I'm glad I did as the sky let out a deluge. SO once again sitting at home... dry at least.


----------



## twochains

Well I can trump all the weather stories :hmm3grin2orange: 

1) 85* today (73* at daylight)
2) right now we are under a tornado warning (1st of many so far)
3) 32* for in the morning! WTheck??? :msp_w00t:


----------



## rwoods

Pardon the interruption but this is the most direct line to slowp's vast FS knowledge that I know. 

Anyway, slowp, I had a young vistor tonight. I could tell from his boots sometime was new in his life so I wasn't surprised when he told me he was working for the FS out of the Asheville NC fire station. Long story short he is not a jumper but said he was a class C faller and qualified to cut up to 60" althought 42" is the biggest he has felled. I was taken back by this as he has only been with the service for 4 months. I checked the certification qualifications posted on-line but I didn't see any minimum time experience. Can this be so? If he stays out of trouble tonight I expect to see him tomorrow to cut firewood - so before I hand him a chainsaw, how much stock should I put in his certification assuming he actually is certified? Thanks, Ron


----------



## slowp

I sent you a PM.


----------



## forestryworks

Certifications have no weight except on paper. In the woods, it's experience that carries you through the day. 

There's a lot of C Fallers that aren't necessarily timber fallers. A friend of mine is a B faller but has nowhere near the experience I've had (not that my 6 years is anything to puff my chest about) and I have no faller's certs or saw certs at all.


----------



## slowp

The Forest Service method of falling is for safety, not production. There's quite a process to the hazard tree in closed campground falling. It involves waiting--shutting off the saw just before the final cut is made and hollering, and waiting a bit before entering the area of falling limbs after the tree is down.

Certification was developed after a few deaths and accidents. There's a reason for it. One of the deaths, which was a guy driving by on his way to work, happened here. The tree being cut went over backwards, nobody was flagging or watching the road, and it nailed him.


----------



## rwoods

slowp, is the required "falling horn" a signaling horn or is that slang for something else. Ron


----------



## slowp

rwoods said:


> slowp, is the required "falling horn" a signaling horn or is that slang for something else. Ron



Never heard of that. I've helped with traffic control a few times during hazard tree falling and they holler and we talk on the radios.


----------



## rwoods

It was just listed on the operator's kit list and I thought that might be a good question to ask. Ron


----------



## rwoods

No show. Ron

PS Since I interrupted this fine thread please let me repay with an East Tennessee slice of heaven served fresh through the truck window. 







View attachment 291457


----------



## forestryworks

rwoods said:


> No show. Ron
> 
> PS Since I interrupted this fine thread please let me repay with an East Tennessee slice of heaven served fresh through the truck window.



Nice scenery! Looks warm and pleasant, too.

Everything is still dormant and brown here. Been a long winter. More snow again tomorrow!


----------



## OlympicYJ

Good scenery Ron! I'm currently in Idaho going to school. A lot of college students fight fire. I ran into a gal that fights fire for the FS. Figured she was on the line. Nope said she was a caller. I probed for a bit to see what she knew. Jokingly asked if she used the sloping back cut. She said yes and I asked why. She said if she was up against a rock on the back cut. I said why don't you bore it? It achieves the same result. She was defensive about it so dropped it. The WA DNR has a an ABC classification system maybe its 123 I don't know but I do know in order to fall big stuff 60" you have to be a professional timber called for I believe 6 years. And they check your work record. I have fire D's with the d r that are capable of some bigger stuff >18"<60"without having been a faller but at least this system uses experience. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## slowp

OlympicYJ said:


> Good scenery Ron! I'm currently in Idaho going to school. A lot of college students fight fire. I ran into a gal that fights fire for the FS. Figured she was on the line. Nope said she was a caller. I probed for a bit to see what she knew. Jokingly asked if she used the sloping back cut. She said yes and I asked why. She said if she was up against a rock on the back cut. I said why don't you bore it? It achieves the same result. She was defensive about it so dropped it. The WA DNR has a an ABC classification system maybe its 123 I don't know but I do know in order to fall big stuff 60" you have to be a professional timber called for I believe 6 years. And they check your work record. I have fire D's with the d r that are capable of some bigger stuff >18"<60"without having been a faller but at least this system uses experience.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



Don't take this too badly, but we women who work in the woods, tend to get tired of having to justify or prove or show that we too, are able to do a few things. Believe me, it gets old. It tends to make us grumpy, which you may construe as "defensive". With men, it seems to stop as they get older, but we women have to put up with authenticating ourselves no matter what our age.

Example: Do elk hunters ever ask men "Aren't you afraid of being out here all alone?" 

However, I have enjoyed having volunteers come up to change a flat tire, even though I have and can change them myself. I lift the tire onto the wheel using arms and knees. I usually had started the process.
But then, I've helped out the guys when they needed another hand--like a log truck driver who just didn't have enough arms to adjust some thingamabob on the trailer.

You probably wouldn't get it unless you had a sex change for a few years, and I know that isn't going to happen. Nor should it.


----------



## Jacob J.

forestryworks said:


> Certifications have no weight except on paper. In the woods, it's experience that carries you through the day.
> 
> There's a lot of C Fallers that aren't necessarily timber fallers. A friend of mine is a B faller but has nowhere near the experience I've had (not that my 6 years is anything to puff my chest about) and I have no faller's certs or saw certs at all.





slowp said:


> The Forest Service method of falling is for safety, not production. There's quite a process to the hazard tree in closed campground falling. It involves waiting--shutting off the saw just before the final cut is made and hollering, and waiting a bit before entering the area of falling limbs after the tree is down.
> 
> Certification was developed after a few deaths and accidents. There's a reason for it. One of the deaths, which was a guy driving by on his way to work, happened here. The tree being cut went over backwards, nobody was flagging or watching the road, and it nailed him.



Most safety stuff is reactionary, which is depressing when you think about it because intelligence and common sense to me are the most important safety items. In the old days, The U.S. Forest Service Health and Safety Code handbook defined the C faller as: "A journeyman level chainsaw operator capable of felling problematic and hazardous trees in a manner pursuant to the health and safety of forest workers." They never gave a true definition of "Journeyman" level but tradespeople recognize a journeyman level worker as having a number of years of experience in a variety of situations. So yes, it's doubtful that a young person with a few months experience is a C-certified operator unless they have relevant experience from elsewhere.


----------



## jrcat

I t is sunny and calm outside but it is COLD . so I'm not going outside today


----------



## OlympicYJ

slowp said:


> Don't take this too badly, but we women who work in the woods, tend to get tired of having to justify or prove or show that we too, are able to do a few things. Believe me, it gets old. It tends to make us grumpy, which you may construe as "defensive". With men, it seems to stop as they get older, but we women have to put up with authenticating ourselves no matter what our age.
> 
> Example: Do elk hunters ever ask men "Aren't you afraid of being out here all alone?"
> 
> However, I have enjoyed having volunteers come up to change a flat tire, even though I have and can change them myself. I lift the tire onto the wheel using arms and knees. I usually had started the process.
> But then, I've helped out the guys when they needed another hand--like a log truck driver who just didn't have enough arms to adjust some thingamabob on the trailer.
> 
> You probably wouldn't get it unless you had a sex change for a few years, and I know that isn't going to happen. Nor should it.




Possibly, but it would be the same thing I'd say to a man. It really shouldn't make women grumpy. Nothing was ever mentioned or questioned about her ability because she was a woman. I think women can be just as capable of doing the same things as a man. It all comes down to mindset not necessarily physical ability. Men get questioned about their ability too, especially young men. My point is just because someone questions ones ability it doesn't mean it is because of gender, it can be a legitimate question.

But anyways some hunter that comes up to a woman and asks a woman if they are afraid of being out there alone is rather imbecilic sounding IMHO unless something in conversation spurs this question.


----------



## jrcat

I have not come across any women loggers yet, but plenty of women construction works and truck drivers and farmers. I have respect for women that work in any of the "man fields" and in fact women are proven to be better thinkers under stress then men. MY girl friend will jump right on the dozer and go, she cant keep grade for beans lol but she is by no means afraid to try. She also has 7 deer under her belt as where I have NONE lol (3 of them taken with a hand gun she has her pistol permit). So I respect her and all women. I have to daughters and I tell them that there is nothing they cannot do if they put their minds to it. Never underestimate a woman.


----------



## woodchuck357

*Yeah, half a century ago i WAS with a woman that made the time*



jrcat said:


> Ahhh descriptive process....... I am stuck at home with my girlfriend who is somewhat disgruntled, as I have not spent much time with her this week. Its sunny and warm with trees to be cut and 25mph wind gusts.



we had together miserable with her whining about how little time we had together. Found one who really liked spending time with me!


----------



## Samlock

Have you noticed that the smell of diesel kinda extracts into your skin? 

I drained the crummy's fuel tank today and the plug popped unexpectedly on me. Had a diesel shower. I have bathed twice and still not allowed to the sitting room.


----------



## northmanlogging

A good day or three around a camp/ bonfire gets rid of the diesel smell, especially with just a touch to much green wood... course you wont be let in the house until you sober up and take a swim...:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Samlock

northmanlogging said:


> A good day or three around a camp/ bonfire gets rid of the diesel smell, especially with just a touch to much green wood... course you wont be let in the house until you sober up and take a swim...:msp_rolleyes:



I'll give the fish smell a try today. Fire for sure too, possibly swimming. Ice is getting quite thin over here, you see.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Larch just popped here last week too.


----------



## jrcat

Last week it was raining and cold. this week looks it will be raining and warm


----------



## twochains

85* for this week here in the dirty souff


----------



## jrcat

twochains said:


> 85* for this week here in the dirty souff



You suck. At least we arent getting the flooding like in the mid west. But everything is a greasy slimy mess here still.


----------



## madhatte

It's supposed to be in the upper 70's here this weekend. The hell?


----------



## OlympicYJ

madhatte said:


> It's supposed to be in the upper 70's here this weekend. The hell?



Better enjoy it. Won't last long! lol spose to hit 24 here tonight.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> It's supposed to be in the upper 70's here this weekend. The hell?



Yup. But at least we can go up in the snow if it gets too hot. By the way, it snowed where I was cutting firewood yesterday. Not very long and it didn't stick. That's at only 1500 feet elevation. Then it rained, then the sun came out and it got hot...but it was mostly overcast and cool.


----------



## forestryworks

A late snowstorm today. Then rain and cold 'til the weekend. Back to burning next week, I hope! And some hazard tree falling - good ol' stinky cottonwood.


----------



## jrcat

70's here in wny. Its been a beautiful week so far.


----------



## slowp

My garsh! I think I will head up into the hills this weekend. Upper eighties predicted! We wet siders melt in that weather. :msp_ohmy:


----------



## twochains

I had kind of an emo day today. I went and fixed a 1/2 mile of fence for an older couple. The farmer is in 2nd year Lou Gehrigs (ALS). I have no close family other than my Son and my wife, we always eat holiday dinners there. They treat me great. This disease is taking it's hold on the farmer, everytime I see him now, he is worse. He was so active, always working on his farm, splitting firewood, cutting hay, etc. Now he is to the point where I had to cut tennis balls to put on his walker legs. He was going to thank me and forgot my name. Very sad! 

So today I fixed part of their fence and cut them a rick of wood and split it. Linda, the farmer's wife tried to pay me...I accepted 4 jars of her home made jelly. 

It brings tears to my eyes knowing how hard these people have worked for what they have, lived a religious life, and now just have to wait and hope for the best. Evidently ALS and very late stage tick fever have alot of similarity. Doctors in Colorado have been medicating him with antibiotics hoping he just has tick fever. What ever it is has become neurological, his speech is going at a quick rate, motor skills all diminishing... Anyway, even though I did a nice thing for someone in need, I am very saddened know he won't be around for too many more years. If I knew any prayers I would say something for him and his family...but I never have been to Church...


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> I had kind of an emo day today. I went and fixed a 1/2 mile of fence for an older couple. The farmer is in 2nd year Lou Gehrigs (ALS). I have no close family other than my Son and my wife, we always eat holiday dinners there. They treat me great. This disease is taking it's hold on the farmer, everytime I see him now, he is worse. He was so active, always working on his farm, splitting firewood, cutting hay, etc. Now he is to the point where I had to cut tennis balls to put on his walker legs. He was going to thank me and forgot my name. Very sad!
> 
> So today I fixed part of their fence and cut them a rick of wood and split it. Linda, the farmer's wife tried to pay me...I accepted 4 jars of her home made jelly.
> 
> It brings tears to my eyes knowing how hard these people have worked for what they have, lived a religious life, and now just have to wait and hope for the best. Evidently ALS and very late stage tick fever have alot of similarity. Doctors in Colorado have been medicating him with antibiotics hoping he just has tick fever. What ever it is has become neurological, his speech is going at a quick rate, motor skills all diminishing... Anyway, even though I did a nice thing for someone in need, I am very saddened know he won't be around for too many more years. If I knew any prayers I would say something for him and his family...but I never have been to Church...



i'm not a church man either, but after reading that,.... well.....ya'll in our prayers.


----------



## northmanlogging

View attachment 293736
First off lets take a look at a belly pan that hasn't been cleaned in 10 years...


and second whoever decided that the oil drain plug should face the nearest cross member with just enough space for the nice and warm oil to pick up a good pace, needs to be punched in the pee hole... the skidder holds 9 qts I might have caught 3 of em, at least it will keep the weeds down in the driveway.

On the plus side I should be moving the missus to the job this friday or the one after


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> View attachment 293736
> First off lets take a look at a belly pan that hasn't been cleaned in 10 years...
> 
> 
> and second whoever decided that the oil drain plug should face the nearest cross member with just enough space for the nice and warm oil to pick up a good pace, needs to be punched in the pee hole... the skidder holds 9 qts I might have caught 3 of em, at least it will keep the weeds down in the driveway.
> 
> On the plus side I should be moving the missus to the job this friday or the one after



what kind of skidder?


----------



## 056 kid

northmanlogging said:


> View attachment 293736
> First off lets take a look at a belly pan that hasn't been cleaned in 10 years...
> 
> 
> and second whoever decided that the oil drain plug should face the nearest cross member with just enough space for the nice and warm oil to pick up a good pace, needs to be punched in the pee hole... the skidder holds 9 qts I might have caught 3 of em, at least it will keep the weeds down in the driveway.
> 
> On the plus side I should be moving the missus to the job this friday or the one after



That's nothing. I have seen ones that you almost have to dig to check the oil. Like a foot of that chit surrounding the oil pan & bottom of the block. Leaks anyone?


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> what kind of skidder?



440 A, got an aftermarket motor in it though, uses just a regular old pipe plug so i could put an elbow in and call it a day, but that invlolves driving 20 miles to the nearest hardware store that's not ran by morons #######s and tweakers


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> 440 A, got an aftermarket motor in it though, uses just a regular old pipe plug so i could put an elbow in and call it a day, but that invlolves driving 20 miles to the nearest hardware store that's not ran by morons #######s and tweakers



yea we had a 440b now got a 540 b grapple, they ain't the easiest to work on but then no skidder is.


----------



## northmanlogging

Its not so bad to work on... everything is just heavy... and I don't have a hoist of any kind.

The hydraulic hoses are nightmare though, especially the ones under the dash and next to the tranny (where I currently have a small leak that I can't get my fat arms into to fix)


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Its not so bad to work on... everything is just heavy... and I don't have a hoist of any kind.
> 
> The hydraulic hoses are nightmare though, especially the ones under the dash and next to the tranny (where I currently have a small leak that I can't get my fat arms into to fix)



yea, had to put a new shift cable on the 540 last winter, 25 degres 20 mph north wind tryin to get these ape hands through that little hole they give ya to work by the trans, whoever desined that must have spagetty fingers.


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## northmanlogging

Seems like most of the hose on mine have been replaced with rubber, from what I hear they originally came with steel hydraulic hoses... and the one I need to tighten has a 45 deg. adapter on it so I need to get two wrenches in there some how one from the back one from the inspection hole, and my arms just arn't long enough, still looking for a mechanic with long arms and is comfortable with his/her sexuality... I don't see this fix not taking two people.


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## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Seems like most of the hose on mine have been replaced with rubber, from what I hear they originally came with steel hydraulic hoses... and the one I need to tighten has a 45 deg. adapter on it so I need to get two wrenches in there some how one from the back one from the inspection hole, and my arms just arn't long enough, still looking for a mechanic with long arms and is comfortable with his/her sexuality... I don't see this fix not taking two people.



don't ya wonder how the heck some one else did that. thought about torchin the hole bigger for just a second....nah better not


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## northmanlogging

without the left steer cylinder it would be simple to get from the bottom, that involves pulling and cleaning yet another belly pan and pulling the cylinder and bleeding the system... simple yes but not as simple as hear hold this here wrench on that there doohickey while I turn this other one... but then the leak tisn't that bad... just hard to find someone willing to stick there arm in a really nasty hole, and lock knees with me at the same time... the wifey said no... on account of the grease I hope...


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> without the left steer cylinder it would be simple to get from the bottom, that involves pulling and cleaning yet another belly pan and pulling the cylinder and bleeding the system... simple yes but not as simple as hear hold this here wrench on that there doohickey while I turn this other one... but then the leak tisn't that bad... just hard to find someone willing to stick there arm in a really nasty hole, and lock knees with me at the same time... the wifey said no... on account of the grease I hope...



man i'd help ya, just a little to long a drive  just do what I do keep spendin on hydro fluid. I about give up on leaks. dunno if you got a knuckle boom but I ain't never seen one that don't leak


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## jrcat

Those deere skidders are an absolute beauty to work on. I spent 4 days.....yes 4 days trying to fix those 2 lines on the front axle of a 540B for the diff lock. the main pin that holds the axle in place came out on the guy running it whilst it was bobbing in the air pulling a heavy hitch. So I had to put in new lines and fittings and a new pin, bushing and seal in that axle housing... what a flipping nightmare.


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## jrcat

056 kid said:


> That's nothing. I have seen ones that you almost have to dig to check the oil. Like a foot of that chit surrounding the oil pan & bottom of the block. Leaks anyone?



The belly pans on my dozer....they had things growing in them when I bought it. Now one of them has the crescent wrench I kept in my pocket. Hopefully it is still there the next time I pull the pans lol


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## treeslayer2003

RAIN AGAIN two days last week, same thing this week. I hate spring, least you know what to expect winter, summer, fall. how ya do week worth a work in two days? hot in summer, least its dry.


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## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> RAIN AGAIN two days last week, same thing this week. I hate spring, least you know what to expect winter, summer, fall. how ya do week worth a work in two days? hot in summer, least its dry.



The short answer.....you dont lol. Im heading for the woods today. Last day for this week, rain for the next 5 days I guess. Oh well will have to keep working on project crummy.


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## treeslayer2003

yea they say several days here, can't do nothing bout the weather, oh well. have a good day cat.


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## twochains

We have rain coming for 2moro I think. I'm gonna knock a hill side down and hope the lazy ass'd skidder op stays at the house! 2 straight days of logging and pulling cable...cut awhile, and go pull cable to them...while the skidder op just sits there waiting on me! :bang: It would have to be steep ass'd ground! I'm fricken wore out...wish he would leave me alone for a bit, I might actually get finished with job. 

Oh man...it was funny today, I hooked a whopper pine and he hit the winch...that tree didn't even quiver and that damn skidder went to flying backwards down the hillside...fricken hilarious! From the look on his face, I think he crapped his pants a little! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## bustedup

twochains said:


> We have rain coming for 2moro I think. I'm gonna knock a hill side down and hope the lazy ass'd skidder op stays at the house! 2 straight days of logging and pulling cable...cut awhile, and go pull cable to them...while the skidder op just sits there waiting on me! :bang: It would have to be steep ass'd ground! I'm fricken wore out...wish he would leave me alone for a bit, I might actually get finished with job.
> 
> Oh man...it was funny today, I hooked a whopper pine and he hit the winch...that tree didn't even quiver and that damn skidder went to flying backwards down the hillside...fricken hilarious! From the look on his face, I think he crapped his pants a little! :hmm3grin2orange:



Poetic justice then :msp_thumbsup:


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## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> We have rain coming for 2moro I think. I'm gonna knock a hill side down and hope the lazy ass'd skidder op stays at the house! 2 straight days of logging and pulling cable...cut awhile, and go pull cable to them...while the skidder op just sits there waiting on me! :bang: It would have to be steep ass'd ground! I'm fricken wore out...wish he would leave me alone for a bit, I might actually get finished with job.
> 
> Oh man...it was funny today, I hooked a whopper pine and he hit the winch...that tree didn't even quiver and that damn skidder went to flying backwards down the hillside...fricken hilarious! From the look on his face, I think he crapped his pants a little! :hmm3grin2orange:



you were spossed to to leave a tree for ta back up to.....ha ha. :hmm3grin2orange: haaa, no one ever pulled cable for me but I've pulled plenty for others. don't you know they think saw work is easy, every thing in the woods goes better if everyone pulls together or... your by yourself. anyway least you worked today


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## rwoods

*Grim reminder from the Firewood Forum*

_Please Read 
My father helps me a lot with my firewood business. He retired in 2003 and took up helping me as a hobby. He is one of those old school guys (66) that isn't happy unless he's working or doing something with his cows. I have had to watch dad over the last couple of years. He has started to walk to close behind the skid steer,hit the pedal a little when backing up to a trailer, little things like that. I'll call it slipping a little bit. He knew it and it was his biggest fear getting older and loosing his mind. It runs in the family. Yesterday we were out cutting trees on a property. We had put in a solid 4 hours or so. Dad can cut a 5-6 cord load of logs by himself in a day moving the blocks by hand out of his way pretty easy. I has dropped 4 trees up the hill for him to block up. I told him I was going to fall some big white oak trees down the hill. I fell the first one and cut it into logs. I moved to the next tree about 70ft with a 28-30DBH. It was a very nice white oak. There was nothing in my way. I notched and bore cut the tree from both sides. I started from the wrong side and I was finishing my cut with dad to my back. I always look out for him and make sure he wasn't in harms way. I cut cut the back strap and the tree started to go. I looked up and saw an orange saw. I knew I hadn't left anything there. It then struck me it was dad. I yelled at him right as the tree was coming down. The one time I didn;t check up on him he had walked right into my landing zone on his way to cut some other trees up. The branches hit him. They were around 4-6" branches. The branches hit him in the back of the head. He was still breathing. I called 911 then my mother and brother and sisters. They air lifted him to a hospital. Dad never came to again and he died this morning. My father has been a huge part of my 37years on this earth. We worked together everyday. Please be very careful out there. A few minutes in time can change your life forever. I lost my father and best friend today. It it very hard to deal with know you realeased the tree that took your fathers life. Becareful out there.

Scott _

:msp_sad: Ron


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## RandyMac

I did see that and commented on it. I noticed some comments saying "it could happen to anyone". Bull####

He gets a big fail from me, he violated one of the most basic safety rules in falling trees, keeping an eye on the layout, until the tree is down.

A very sad event and one that need not to have happened.


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## treeslayer2003

oh my god......of course your right randy, but the sadness strikes me hard. I can't imagion it. this is why I don't have pop in the woods any more. he's at the landing but not in the woods. this is about the worst thing I ever read. very sad


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## jrcat

Raining for the next 3 days. Good time to finish some projects around home.


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## RandyMac

treeslayer2003 said:


> oh my god......of course your right randy, but the sadness strikes me hard. I can't imagion it. this is why I don't have pop in the woods any more. he's at the landing but not in the woods. this is about the worst thing I ever read. very sad



Yes, a very tragic event, a moment of carelessness, led to a lifetime of sorrow.


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## jrcat

There is only one person I have to help me in the woods and that is my brother. He doesnt do any falling what so ever as he is scared to death of it. So when I am doing the falling he stays well clear of me and I ALWAYS look to see where he is at before I drop one. My brother is...well he's my brother and I could never imagine what it would be like without him.


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## treeslayer2003

anytime someone comes in the woods, I shut off the saw till they leave. just to risky


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## RandyMac

jrcat said:


> There is only one person I have to help me in the woods and that is my brother. He doesnt do any falling what so ever as he is scared to death of it. So when I am doing the falling he stays well clear of me and I ALWAYS look to see where he is at before I drop one. My brother is...well he's my brother and I could never imagine what it would be like without him.



Well some day, one or the other of one will find out, with luck it will be a long time.


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## twochains

jrcat said:


> There is only one person I have to help me in the woods and that is my brother. He doesnt do any falling what so ever as he is scared to death of it. So when I am doing the falling he stays well clear of me and I ALWAYS look to see where he is at before I drop one. My brother is...well he's my brother and I could never imagine what it would be like without him.



I have a brother, he lives in Kentucky...thank God! If I had him in the woods I wouldn't get anything done...I'd be kickin' his ass all over the woods...fricken private schooled little punk...


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## bustedup

twochains said:


> I have a brother, he lives in Kentucky...thank God! If I had him in the woods I wouldn't get anything done...I'd be kickin' his ass all over the woods...fricken private schooled little punk...



Well maybe he can cuss posh lol .....and yell posh when ya kickin him


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## treeslayer2003

gotcha, now that dad is 72 I know how he musta felt when I started. least he don't go back in the woods any more. bad enugh worrying wether he gonna fall off the loader or sumtin.


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## bustedup

A tragic event some sole losing their Father and words are no conselation at all. 


However How Randy put it is exactly right and it maybe should serve as a wake up call to everyone connected to falling and the like ........The stick is not the only thing that a faller must watch and be aware of. I guess it been said a zillion times but it is worth saying a zillion more.


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## rwoods

bustedup said:


> A tragic event some sole losing their Father and words are no conselation at all.
> 
> 
> However How Randy put it is exactly right and it maybe should serve as a wake up call to everyone connected to falling and the like ........The stick is not the only thing that a faller must watch and be aware of. I guess it been said a zillion times but it is worth saying a zillion more.



A few years back an old logger checking up on his son who was logging our property was killed in similar fashion. 

Despite the flack I get, these tragic events are the very reason I cut alone. Even that has risks beyond your own person as people are curious and will walk in on you, or as I recently experienced, having a hung tree fall within minutes of leaving it for help after thirty minutes of babysitting it while it cracked and moaned. I have yet to cut a tree that would stop its fall on my command. 

Ron


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## rwoods

Lest all this talk of older folks leads us to think cutting wood, hard work and usefulness are just for the young, let me tell you about one of the oldest members (mid to late 70s) of our firewood volunteers. He cuts more firewood than most of the young pups. Yeah they may cut more in twenty minutes than he and his tiny Stihl does in an hour but they usually poop out in 45 minutes never to show again and he keeps going hour after hour, Saturday after Saturday. Like most productive people, he recognizes his limitations. I recruited him to buck in a tornado patch a few months back. After a while, he told me he had better return to the hard level ground of the wood lot as he is no longer agile enough for rough ground. He doesn’t quit. He doesn’t whine. He’s not out to prove anything to anyone. He just works hard to help others. Though I may know more about cutting and saws than he, there is much more I can learn from him. 

The same can be said for the older guys that run the splitters hour after hour. 

Ron


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## jrcat

My mentor of log trucking is the same way slow and steady. He could load 20 ton of pulpwood in 20 minutes or so. and haul 5 to 6 loads a day. I tried to beat him one day...never happened. He was never hard on the loader or the truck just steady. I swear he could pick a sheet of paper off the hood of a car without batting an eye.


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## bustedup

rwoods said:


> A few years back an old logger checking up on his son who was logging our property was killed in similar fashion.
> 
> Despite the flack I get, these tragic events are the very reason I cut alone. Even that has risks beyond your own person as people are curious and will walk in on you, or as I recently experienced, having a hung tree fall within minutes of leaving it for help after thirty minutes of babysitting it while it cracked and moaned. I have yet to cut a tree that would stop its fall on my command.
> 
> Ron



I get ya there bout cutting alone and the reasons behind it.


How many folks that have falled timber have had the same or similar experiences??? What is the huge fasination that folks seem to have with falling trees??? I just don't get it. Ya put signs up tape out etc etc etc and still people walk in. It increases the stress levels that for sure as if things go wrong and those folk get hurt the finger always gets pointed at the fallers/rigging crew/loaders in short the folks that are meant to be there!!! not the ones that aren't.


Hang ups I when I cut have hung sticks up intentionally as it was the only way I could get them out (lack of skill on my part more than likely) but the unpredictability of doing that is always (for me anyhow) a pucker up moment. Ya think things are settled ya relax slightly and bam it comes down all on it's own. Oh how I guess we all would wish for the gift of being able to stop a stick after it moving. But that gift is as yet not in the mortal domain. 


Good post in the quote maybe that should be shown on TV rather than the things they do???


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## jrcat

Rain ...more rain annnnnddddd more rain. inside work and chasing down parts and looking at more jobs for a few days .


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## northmanlogging

packed up the missus and sent her down the road today, tomorrow I start killing some trees whole sale style... all these back yard trees and tree service stuff just makes me want to dump a few pumpkins all the more. None of this climbing everyone and sticking a line in it crud, just face it, back it up, tap a wedge, shut the saw off and wait for the echo...


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## jrcat

northmanlogging said:


> packed up the missus and sent her down the road today, tomorrow I start killing some trees whole sale style... all these back yard trees and tree service stuff just makes me want to dump a few pumpkins all the more. None of this climbing everyone and sticking a line in it crud, just face it, back it up, tap a wedge, shut the saw off and wait for the echo...



There is nothing like being in the woods and that echo. I didnt get on to well with tree service work, part of the reason I did not return to my old job. Dragging brush to a chipper and being oh so careful about the yuppies lawns ....not me give me my dozer or a skidder and a saw and cut me loose.


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## northmanlogging

I don't mind the tree service end of things too much, keeps me cutting a bit, its just tedious, and stressful. Plus I really hate being in the city. I don't climb much at all anymore so I'm stuck being the groundy for the most part, I get to take down the big uns though so that helps.


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## northmanlogging

Lost the lid to my gas can, punched a hole in my bar oil jug, ran out of water way faster then I thought, discovered I'm allot fatter than I remember being. Its not quite 3 pm, and I'm allready home... I got a quarter load down and yarded of dog hair hemlock, and cleaned up the next landing a bit. Last year this would have taken me 2 weeks with the gypo yarder... not to mention set up.

Also found out the current HO wants to clear a whole bunch more than I had originally planned on roughly double, combined with the neighbor... this could be a good year of logging for my part time butt.

All in all a pretty good day:smile2:


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## bustedup

northmanlogging said:


> Lost the lid to my gas can, punched a hole in my bar oil jug, ran out of water way faster then I thought, discovered I'm allot fatter than I remember being. Its not quite 3 pm, and I'm allready home... I got a quarter load down and yarded of dog hair hemlock, and cleaned up the next landing a bit. Last year this would have taken me 2 weeks with the gypo yarder... not to mention set up.
> 
> Also found out the current HO wants to clear a whole bunch more than I had originally planned on roughly double, combined with the neighbor... this could be a good year of logging for my part time butt.
> 
> All in all a pretty good day:smile2:



Hope it is a good one for ya......Things do come to those who wait ......or so they say.....mind ya doing good work does kinda help too and does lead to better things


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## jrcat

northmanlogging said:


> Lost the lid to my gas can, punched a hole in my bar oil jug, ran out of water way faster then I thought, discovered I'm allot fatter than I remember being. Its not quite 3 pm, and I'm allready home... I got a quarter load down and yarded of dog hair hemlock, and cleaned up the next landing a bit. Last year this would have taken me 2 weeks with the gypo yarder... not to mention set up.
> 
> Also found out the current HO wants to clear a whole bunch more than I had originally planned on roughly double, combined with the neighbor... this could be a good year of logging for my part time butt.
> 
> All in all a pretty good day:smile2:



Are you skidding with the missus? and what is a gypo yarder? lol But its good you've got more than you thought there. kinda along the same lines as the job I am now now ... the guy wants more taken out and now I have a mess of upcoming dozer work looks like a busy summer.


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## bustedup

jrcat said:


> Are you skidding with the missus? and what is a gypo yarder? lol But its good you've got more than you thought there. kinda along the same lines as the job I am now now ... the guy wants more taken out and now I have a mess of upcoming dozer work looks like a busy summer.




Well we called anything that was kinda made up outta different pieces to get a working thing either gypo'd or Magyvered lol so maybe that


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## northmanlogging

For the gypo yarder see my photo album, graphic photo evidence... its just a couple of pto winches. and a 10 horse tecumseh engine, match it to a spar tree and now yer logging. Its fing slow though, a bigger engine would do wonders, or buy a skidder, I bought a skidder.

And yes the Missus is working again, seems to like it...


----------



## jrcat

northmanlogging said:


> For the gypo yarder see my photo album, graphic photo evidence... its just a couple of pto winches. and a 10 horse tecumseh engine, match it to a spar tree and now yer logging. Its fing slow though, a bigger engine would do wonders, or buy a skidder, I bought a skidder.
> 
> And yes the Missus is working again, seems to like it...



Is that you in the tree in "graphic photo evidence"? That is a cool little yarder. I would have a 3 or 4 cyl kubota engine on it that would give it more snot at least. Can you get some pics of the missus on the landing?


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## treeslayer2003

that reminds me of the homade skidders used to be around. dad called um "short dog"
he still had one when I was a small kid


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## northmanlogging

jrcat said:


> Is that you in the tree in "graphic photo evidence"? That is a cool little yarder. I would have a 3 or 4 cyl kubota engine on it that would give it more snot at least. Can you get some pics of the missus on the landing?



That would be my partner, he does more of the tree climbing arborist stuff, I fall em and take em to the mill, gimpy leg keeps me from being real happy with gaffs on.

I've been keeping my eye open for a little 20-30 hp diesel, everyone wants too much for em. or a small real wheel drive car with a manual tranny, be pretty easy to convert it over, then it would have the speed and the power to maybe get something done.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> That would be my partner, he does more of the tree climbing arborist stuff, I fall em and take em to the mill, gimpy leg keeps me from being real happy with gaffs on.
> 
> I've been keeping my eye open for a little 20-30 hp diesel, everyone wants too much for em. or a small real wheel drive car with a manual tranny, be pretty easy to convert it over, then it would have the speed and the power to maybe get something done.



reefer trailer unit is about 40hp some are Mercedes I think


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## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> reefer trailer unit is about 40hp some are Mercedes I think



Thermo king reefers are actually thermo king engines I believe at least they have "thermo king" casted in the block. Mercedes engines are really good engines and they run forever.


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## northmanlogging

There is a guy selling em on C list for a reasonable price, his where Isuzu? I would like to have a clutch on there of some sort, now its just a V-belt with a tension arm, works ok, when the load isn't real big... start pulling heavy turns and ya start burning up belts one every other day or so... I went through 4 last year in 3 monthes of part time work, can be a bit frustrating...

With the skidder, now I'm not real sure what I'm going to do with it, it works, needs a new muffler... but like I said its slow... I could pick up a christy or an old skagit for around 30k or sometimes less (found one awhile back for 5000 old skagit bu30 flat head ford v8 powered super cool...). But really what I should look into getting is an excavator with log loading rig on it. Then I could hire any old log truck instead of relying on self loaders, and I could sort and stack on a smaller landing, and maybe throw a couple pullmasters on there and have a Yoder... among many other things.

I'll try and get some pictures of the missus working next week, I was running solo today, kinda hard to hop out, take a few snap shots and then haul my gimpy ass back in before driving into a swamp or over me...


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## treeslayer2003

ya got swamps over there? thought it was all mountains


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## jrcat

Isuzu engines are very good engines too. Try looking for an old isuzu cab over truck with a standard trans. Around here they can be had on the cheap as they are rotted bad. But the engines can easily run for 350,000 to 400,000 miles or up to 20,000 hrs. I recently saw one go at auction for $800 just cab abd chassis but it had the auto trans which would work as well I would think.


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## northmanlogging

We got it all man, swamps, mountains, glaciers, dessert, oceans, big fing rivers, rain forests, hippies, republicans, snaggle toothed peaks, volcanoes, picturesque views (when its not raining...)thermo nuclear generators, ocean going trout (no really there called steel head and they can be very large!) 

Hel we got swamps on mountain sides! but none of you'se can have any of it... don't move here...


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## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> We got it all man, swamps, mountains, glaciers, dessert, oceans, big fing rivers, rain forests, hippies, republicans, snaggle toothed peaks, volcanoes, picturesque views (when its not raining...)thermo nuclear generators, ocean going trout (no really there called steel head and they can be very large!)
> 
> Hel we got swamps on mountain sides! but none of you'se can have any of it... don't move here...



he he he we got mostly a holes and democrats. a few sand hills in a swamp. I like to work on the hills [bumps] when I can 
oh and stripers [rock fish] almost forgot....they tasty


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## jrcat

Man there is lots of "don't move here" goin on lol. Thats ok I would like to visit but I am an eastern boy through and through. You can keep the snaggle toothed peaks and volcanoes and earth quakes and such. I like the region where I live, we have mountains (although rather subdued from what you have) and huge lakes (great lakes). But you can have our swamps though...really you can have them ... swamps that stretch as far as the eye can see. 

I lived in florida for a year... that was enough for me to realize that home isnt so bad. I missed the mountains and timber and I cant believe I am saying this ...snow.....Home is home and there is no replacement for it. I get cranky during the summer when the tourists come ....it is lovingly referred to as "moron season" .......


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> Man there is lots of "don't move here" goin on lol. Thats ok I would like to visit but I am an eastern boy through and through. You can keep the snaggle toothed peaks and volcanoes and earth quakes and such. I like the region where I live, we have mountains (although rather subdued from what you have) and huge lakes (great lakes). But you can have our swamps though...really you can have them ... swamps that stretch as far as the eye can see.
> 
> I lived in florida for a year... that was enough for me to realize that home isnt so bad. I missed the mountains and timber and I cant believe I am saying this ...snow.....Home is home and there is no replacement for it. I get cranky during the summer when the tourists come ....it is lovingly referred to as "moron season" .......



huh try beach traffic. I wish oc would sink or the bridge fall in the bay.
but any you guys welcome


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> huh try beach traffic. I wish oc would sink or the bridge fall in the bay.
> but any you guys welcome



Sometimes I wish Chautauqua lake would dry up and Buffalo would explode...violently....but wish in one hand and you know what else in the other lol.


----------



## OlympicYJ

treeslayer2003 said:


> he he he we got mostly a holes and democrats. a few sand hills in a swamp. I like to work on the hills [bumps] when I can
> oh and stripers [rock fish] almost forgot....they tasty



No no no! In addition to this being the wet coast we are the "left" coast... :sly:

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## slowp

Here ya go. A group of boys took this on as a school project and restored it so it ran. They had it in the Morton parade. It sat in view of the highway for a while with a For Sale sign on it, I don't know what happened to it.





I am sad to say that the boy on the left was killed not too long ago in a nasty accident at the mill. 




View attachment 294986
View attachment 294987


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## treeslayer2003

OlympicYJ said:


> No no no! In addition to this being the wet coast we are the "left" coast... :sly:
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



jus kiddin with nm, this ain't political. :smile2:


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## twochains

northmanlogging said:


> That would be my partner, he does more of the tree climbing arborist stuff, I fall em and take em to the mill, gimpy leg keeps me from being real happy with gaffs on.
> 
> I've been keeping my eye open for a little 20-30 hp diesel, everyone wants too much for em. or a small real wheel drive car with a manual tranny, be pretty easy to convert it over, then it would have the speed and the power to maybe get something done.



Hey do you guys out there have those little 3 cylinder diesel mini trucks from Asia? We got flooded with them here, they are little cab over drive on the wrong side cheap rigs. They are about the smallest diesel I've seen aside from those Deutz motors I see airiating catfish ponds.


----------



## northmanlogging

I'm guessing you mean the Tata's, haven't seen any of em yet, I'd like to, love me the diesel, we get lots of smarty cars, and priusiesess, moronic electric cars with no battery life, or retarded hybrids that are not actually gas over electric but more gas or electric... give me a diesel-electric and then we can see some real fuel savings


----------



## treeslayer2003

got to the woods this morning to find........flat tire on skidder. what a rude awakening. of course 
no one has a tube in stock any where close by, and no tire man really wants to do it. so tube is ordered and tire and wheel is sitting at tire shop awaiting attention. I twiddleing thumbs wishing I had fixed the spare months ago. shame on me


----------



## slowp

Good Heavens! Although we've never been in Kansas, we aren't there now. I was in a happy zone, weedwhacking the grass around my little cedar seedlings. The Used Dog appeared (he shall be called Toto for this post) and got my attention. I turned off the weedwhacker and heard thunder. I slowly started back to the house and while brushing grass off my clothing, a wind hit. Heard something crack, but there's no big trees in that vicinity and didn't hear anything hit the ground. 

Toto got me out of and area where I was working around a snag. Good dog Toto! The snag hasn't fallen, but it could. 

I gave Toto a good ear scratch.


----------



## jrcat

Finally finished the crummy today...for the most part. Which is good because I have to sites to clean up for a friend and he is barking mad to get it done. Back to pushing dirt for a few days.


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> Finally finished the crummy today...for the most part. Which is good because I have to sites to clean up for a friend and he is barking mad to get it done. Back to pushing dirt for a few days.



There money in dirt tho .......just as long as ya pushing it not pushing it up lol


----------



## jrcat

pushing it ..at a per hour price lol and he moves the machine to boot lol. Cant beat that.


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> pushing it ..at a per hour price lol and he moves the machine to boot lol. Cant beat that.



Well get him to move it faster ......then push slower .....Then more hours lol........I'm joking


----------



## Rounder

Firing back up next Tuesday, got the privilege of running corridors this week, something I'd successfully avoided until now. ####. The layout guy is the only one on the crew that gets chewed on more than the saws....Doubling down .

This little patchie-poo will get four yarders, a processor or two, and a loader. One way in, and it's the same way out....Should be a peach of a commute.

Gotta love the glitzy-glam life of a full time faller.


----------



## jrcat

yeah its just a cuff the ruts in and clean up the landing. easy in and out.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Well after a long trek from the east side of the mtns I made it home sunday night only to repack and do a two hour drive to Forks today. Met the boss at Kalaloch, had lunch met a timber seller that knows my fam. Went and looked at his job that was just getting started. Then back to Kalaloch for the jeep and on to Forks. Got a whirlwind tour of the mill and turned out I had worked with one of the scalers cruising a few years ago. He looks at my boss and says "let me tell ya bout this kid" and launched into a story about our day of cruisin. After we went back to the company house the boss says "If Russ says you're good I buy it. He doesn't get excited about too much." Lookin to be a good summer I'm thinkin. Goin cruisin tomorrow then data input Thurs in PA.

Oh and it's lookin like a busy saturday of timber fallin and stumb popin for my uncle! Get to kill trees and make money! hooah!


----------



## OlympicYJ

I should add that the uncle is a pretty decent faller especially with alder so I should be getting some good instruction taboot! He got away from small time logging to construction but still does lot clearing now and then but it's not his main business anymore. Only thing is I gotta watch my damned saw like a hawk otherwise he'll have it burnt up in nothin flat... good faller just not too nice on the saws...

If I make enough fallin for him on the weekends some of the dough is going to the 288 for a trip back east if, there's enough. I hate being a college student you're perpetually broke or in the process of becoming broke...

Oh yea, I forgot how spendy snoose is in WA!!! especially in Forks and it gets even spendier when you're not paying attention and they hand you the wrong can and can't take it back....

Time to wax the tins. Spose to rain tomarrow.

Wes


----------



## slowp

Rounder said:


> Firing back up next Tuesday, got the privilege of running corridors this week, something I'd successfully avoided until now. ####. The layout guy is the only one on the crew that gets chewed on more than the saws....Doubling down .
> 
> This little patchie-poo will get four yarders, a processor or two, and a loader. One way in, and it's the same way out....Should be a peach of a commute.
> 
> Gotta love the glitzy-glam life of a full time faller.



What happened here with one outfit was that a faller would flag in the corridors and tail trees. I'd run up and down with my paint gun. They'd get cut out. Then the yarding crew would arrive and it would be another trip on many corridors to redo the tail trees and add twister trees. There would be mumbling from the hooktender about "what was he  thinkin'?" On a couple of treks on a unit with downhill yarding, we went almost to the ridgetop in search of better trees.


----------



## Sport Faller

OlympicYJ said:


> Well after a long trek from the east side of the mtns I made it home sunday night only to repack and do a two hour drive to Forks today. Met the boss at Kalaloch, had lunch met a timber seller that knows my fam. Went and looked at his job that was just getting started. Then back to Kalaloch for the jeep and on to Forks. Got a whirlwind tour of the mill and turned out I had worked with one of the scalers cruising a few years ago. He looks at my boss and says "let me tell ya bout this kid" and launched into a story about our day of cruisin. After we went back to the company house the boss says "If Russ says you're good I buy it. He doesn't get excited about too much." Lookin to be a good summer I'm thinkin. Goin cruisin tomorrow then data input Thurs in PA.
> 
> Oh and it's lookin like a busy saturday of timber fallin and stumb popin for my uncle! Get to kill trees and make money! hooah!



Nice, man, that sounds cool 

GET SOME!


----------



## OlympicYJ

Thanks man! Yeah this is shaping up to be one of the better internships I've done. This will be my 4th and third with a different company.

So today we went and finished a cruise then went and did some logging compliance. All I can say if ya have a processor check your trim lengths multiple times a day. Seems things never change. Nine out of ten times it's a trim issue with log quality. Found a really cool sinkhole today and identified some ruts that need fluffing. Almost regretted bustn out the tins today as it didn't rain as much as expected :msp_rolleyes:

No flying cats vids in the works but have an interesting job coming up in July with Dahlgren Logging. Those are the boys with the Berger Marc VI that flew the cats out on the skyline to skid back to the tail tree. Good to be back out in the woods and not in the classroom with a bunch of BS paper scenarios! Real world trumps the academic any day. 

All in all a great day. Tomarrow is a office and mill tour day in PA.


----------



## bustedup

OlympicYJ said:


> Thanks man! Yeah this is shaping up to be one of the better internships I've done. This will be my 4th and third with a different company.
> 
> So today we went and finished a cruise then went and did some logging compliance. All I can say if ya have a processor check your trim lengths multiple times a day. Seems things never change. Nine out of ten times it's a trim issue with log quality. Found a really cool sinkhole today and identified some ruts that need fluffing. Almost regretted bustn out the tins today as it didn't rain as much as expected :msp_rolleyes:
> 
> No flying cats vids in the works but have an interesting job coming up in July with Dahlgren Logging. Those are the boys with the Berger Marc VI that flew the cats out on the skyline to skid back to the tail tree. Good to be back out in the woods and not in the classroom with a bunch of BS paper scenarios! Real world trumps the academic any day.
> 
> All in all a great day. Tomarrow is a office and mill tour day in PA.



cool bro.......just remember that if ya got ya chew today the office tyes take offense to ya spitting on their floors lol .......oh the real world lol


----------



## madhatte

OlympicYJ said:


> Good to be back out in the woods and not in the classroom with a bunch of BS paper scenarios! Real world trumps the academic any day.



I like to get a few classroom days each year. It's good to keep learning new things, but even better to turn right around and take that knowledge back to work. That said, I'm about 80% of the way through a big project which I will write up here as soon as I am finished and have the bugs worked out of the program.


----------



## Joe46

OlympicYJ said:


> Thanks man! Yeah this is shaping up to be one of the better internships I've done. This will be my 4th and third with a different company.
> 
> So today we went and finished a cruise then went and did some logging compliance. All I can say if ya have a processor check your trim lengths multiple times a day. Seems things never change. Nine out of ten times it's a trim issue with log quality. Found a really cool sinkhole today and identified some ruts that need fluffing. Almost regretted bustn out the tins today as it didn't rain as much as expected :msp_rolleyes:
> 
> No flying cats vids in the works but have an interesting job coming up in July with Dahlgren Logging. Those are the boys with the Berger Marc VI that flew the cats out on the skyline to skid back to the tail tree. Good to be back out in the woods and not in the classroom with a bunch of BS paper scenarios! Real world trumps the academic any day.
> 
> All in all a great day. Tomarrow is a office and mill tour day in PA.


Enjoy your summer on the Peninsula. Still miss living there!


----------



## northmanlogging

bust my arse all week to not work friday at the machine shop, you know so I could maybe get some logging done and have a load or two for the mill... but no guess who's working tomorrow... would be a whole lot easier if the rest of the crew could maybe show up and put in at least 40 hrs (Hel I'd be happy if they put in a solid 30):msp_angry:

So looks like I'm working harder for two days to get the same amount on the ground and yarded, guess it wouldn't be logging otherwise.


----------



## RandyMac

I got my bell rung, they sent me home.


----------



## twochains

RandyMac said:


> I got my bell rung, they sent me home.



What happened? ?


----------



## RandyMac

Well, it was one of those things, but the payback was epic.


----------



## Jacob J.

RandyMac said:


> Well, it was one of those things, but the payback was epic.



I know an old boy who had to eat a turd sandwich in the middle of a riot, and the payback was epic then too.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> I got my bell rung, they sent me home.



Bell rung? By a "guest"?


----------



## Rounder

Hope all is well Randy....

I have nothing to ##### about....quit the #### show today...next job is 2 miles up the road from home with the new outfit.....going to do the faller/fire deal if it comes about......things are looking up and my wife is happy....

I hope you all are well, and have a good safe week and a good, safe Memorial Day weekend - Sam


----------



## Samlock

Sometimes working alone sucks big time.The spruce was on the roadside sticking out of a 6 foot heap of dirt, which appeared to be a pile of rubbish covered with peat... I was about to drop the tree upwind and put a jack on it. As I was doing the back cut, wind took a grab of the tree All I could do was to watch how the jack bored into the ground and the 70' spruce was leaning over the road. Fortunately the holding wood did its job. The road was busy, trucks hauling gravel and dirt at 80 KPH. There was no way I could stop the traffic alone. 

Good thing I had few magnesium wedges from winter rolling on the truck bed. Thanks to Tramp Bushler for that. The tree ate the first one, but the second open the kerf just that little I managed to tap some plastic in. It finally went over after some serious pounding.

For a moment I was almost worried.


----------



## jrcat

Made a land owner very happy this morning. Finally done with road clean up for now . Back to logging tomorrow!!!


----------



## northmanlogging

Machine shop job starts at 8 am, self loader is coming to landing at 7, I've been up since 4? got to sleep around 12-1, won't leave the machine shop until 6:30 or 7 pm... If I'm lucky... gonna be a long day:msp_w00t:


----------



## slowp

Looks like a normal, nasty weekend for the fleece market. 41 degrees and dumping rain this morning. :coffee:


----------



## rwoods

*You know you have spent too much time on AS when*

You wake up at 3:30 in the midst of a dream that Bob has dropped by in Tennessee to give you a cross-country ride to the PNW GTG but wants to take you north first to check out some big timber he has heard about. And you stay awake wondering where and what that big timber is. Ron


----------



## twochains

rwoods said:


> You wake up at 3:30 in the midst of a dream that Bob has dropped by in Tennessee to give you a cross-country ride to the PNW GTG but wants to take you north first to check out some big timber he has heard about. And you stay awake wondering where and what that big timber is. Ron



That's priceless right there! LOL!


----------



## rwoods

And it is true. :help: Ron


----------



## madhatte

I'm visiting with friends over the holiday weekend, and I quite accidentally snuck a File-O-Plate onto an airplane while flying from PDX to STL. The TSA guys spotted it immediately on the scanner, in my wallet, and surprisingly listened to sense and understood that it was not sharp or dangerous at all once I explained what it was. Will be interesting to see if I can get it back home as well. I'm willing to sacrifice it in the name of Science if it's a no-go.


----------



## Jacob J.

madhatte said:


> I'm willing to sacrifice it in the name of Science if it's a no-go.



Just put a sharp edge on it and then demonstrate how you can fling it into a watermelon from across the room.


----------



## madhatte

Maybe after? Different experiment, you see.


----------



## Gologit

Clench it between your teeth...tell 'em it's a dental appliance. Slobber on the counter a little.


----------



## jrcat

Gologit said:


> Clench it between your teeth...tell 'em it's a dental appliance. Slobber on the counter a little.



When in doubt ...just drool thats my motto lol


----------



## RandyMac

The weather forecast for tomorrow has my favorite phrase "rain, heavy at times".


----------



## rwoods

slowp, did someone steal your TigerCat or did you lend it to them for the Bangor show? Ron


----------



## madhatte

Update: File-O-Plate made it home. TSA, oddly, listens to reason now, apparently. This is not what I expected of an Orwellian dystopia.


----------



## northmanlogging

Tried out that there fancy GOL plunge cut with a trigger thing today... on a nice pistol butted Douglas Fir... got er all lined up and ready to go, tap in a little wedge just incase (cause I'm kinda dingy like that). Cut the strap and what happens.....






















Nothing, didn't even quiver in fright, falling the stupid thing with the lean and it don't even move, still had to wedge the bastard over.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Tried out that there fancy GOL plunge cut with a trigger thing today... on a nice pistol butted Douglas Fir... got er all lined up and ready to go, tap in a little wedge just incase (cause I'm kinda dingy like that). Cut the strap and what happens.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing, didn't even quiver in fright, falling the stupid thing with the lean and it don't even move, still had to wedge the bastard over.



that's what i'm afraid will happen


----------



## slowp

The GOL poke cut does use a wedge. You tap it in on the side kind of.


----------



## northmanlogging

I did that just I was kinda hoping for big crash boom, after the release... didn't happen, Me and its mother are very disappointed.:msp_mad:


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> I did that just I was kinda hoping for big crash boom, after the release... didn't happen, Me and its mother are very disappointed.:msp_mad:



Ooops, my bad. You should type slower so some of us can read it more carefully. :biggrin:

Did you throw rocks at the tree for a while?


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> Ooops, my bad. You should type slower so some of us can read it more carefully. :biggrin:
> 
> Did you throw rocks at the tree for a while?



I w o u l d h a v e i f t h e r e w h e r e a n y I c o u l d p i c k u p. I s t h a t c o v e r e d i n t h e G O L c l a s s e s ? A n d d o t h e y h a v e t o b e s p c i a l s a f e t y r o c k , P a i n t e d o r a n g e, w i t h n e o n s t r i p e s ?


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> I w o u l d h a v e i f t h e r e w h e r e a n y I c o u l d p i c k u p. I s t h a t c o v e r e d i n t h e G O L c l a s s e s ? A n d d o t h e y h a v e t o b e s p c i a l s a f e t y r o c k , P a i n t e d o r a n g e, w i t h n e o n s t r i p e s ?



Nope. It is a Forest Service method and is shown on a video that may be buried somewhere in the 500 pages of falling "pictures". It worked for them, but they were in a Ponderosa Pine ecosystem so it may not work here. 

I'm sure somebody? Anybody? will pull it up and post it again.


----------



## twochains

northmanlogging said:


> Tried out that there fancy GOL plunge cut with a trigger thing today... on a nice pistol butted Douglas Fir... got er all lined up and ready to go, tap in a little wedge just incase (cause I'm kinda dingy like that). Cut the strap and what happens.....
> 
> Nothing, didn't even quiver in fright, falling the stupid thing with the lean and it don't even move, still had to wedge the bastard over.



You forgot to yell.... T I M B E R!!!! :msp_w00t:


----------



## northmanlogging

So I busted arse today, and got two maybe three loads ready, and I come home to thisView attachment 298175
View attachment 298175
No wonder I'm still fat.:msp_w00t:


----------



## jrcat

northmanlogging said:


> So I busted arse today, and got two maybe three loads ready, and I come home to thisView attachment 298175
> View attachment 298175
> No wonder I'm still fat.:msp_w00t:



You arent fat... its just an eating disorder :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> So I busted arse today, and got two maybe three loads ready, and I come home to thisView attachment 298175
> View attachment 298175
> No wonder I'm still fat.:msp_w00t:



You're not fat, you're just too short. Are those peanut butter chocolate chip cookies.?


----------



## northmanlogging

peanut butter and chocolate chip...two different batches. I only ate less then a dozen, I swear... so far... tonight...

I'm 6'0 so yer saying I should be what 7'8" or so:biggrin:


----------



## jrcat

northmanlogging said:


> peanut butter and chocolate chip...two different batches. I only ate less then a dozen, I swear... so far... tonight...
> 
> I'm 6'0 so yer saying I should be what 7'8" or so:biggrin:



Yer just big boned lol


----------



## twochains

jrcat said:


> Yer just big boned lol



Cartman is that you?


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> So I busted arse today, and got two maybe three loads ready, and I come home to thisView attachment 298175
> View attachment 298175
> No wonder I'm still fat.:msp_w00t:



don't complian man, jus send um my way :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## northmanlogging

I brag by complaining, its a family trait... the whole clan is a little off. I'm the normal one...


----------



## hammerlogging

Rounder said:


> Hope all is well Randy....
> 
> I have nothing to ##### about....quit the #### show today...next job is 2 miles up the road from home with the new outfit.....going to do the faller/fire deal if it comes about......things are looking up and my wife is happy....
> 
> I hope you all are well, and have a good safe week and a good, safe Memorial Day weekend - Sam



Change is good, and good for you. I hope it works well.


----------



## bitzer

Well I haven't posted in this thread and I can't say I've kept up with it. Mainly because I don't have much to ##### about. But goddammit if I can't ####ing skid tomorrow after almost two ####ing weeks of rain (before it rains again tomorrow night) I'm gonna have to get godaawful drunk. Something like " six rounds bought an I bought five, spent the groceries and half the rent."


----------



## jrcat

bitzer said:


> Well I haven't posted in this thread and I can't say I've kept up with it. Mainly because I don't have much to ##### about. But goddammit if I can't ####ing skid tomorrow after almost two ####ing weeks of rain (before it rains again tomorrow night) I'm gonna have to get godaawful drunk. Something like " six rounds bought an I bought five, spent the groceries and half the rent."



I am waiting for monsoon season to be over ...... Seems like we get an inch of rain every other day....


----------



## redprospector

bitzer said:


> " six rounds bought an I bought five, spent the groceries and half the rent."



Lack 14 dollars having 27 cents? 

Andy


----------



## RandyMac

The county reassessed my house, property tax went from $1600 a year to $600, makes the house payment well under $600 a month, maybe $540. We are happy.


----------



## treeslayer2003

RandyMac said:


> The county reassessed my house, property tax went from $1600 a year to $600, makes the house payment well under $600 a month, maybe $540. We are happy.



WOW! that's great randy, wish I could get that done. i'm about ta pay mine, it like a second dam mortgage.


----------



## RandyMac

treeslayer2003 said:


> WOW! that's great randy, wish I could get that done. i'm about ta pay mine, it like a second dam mortgage.



Tax rates vary, we lucked out with the timing.


----------



## jrcat

RandyMac said:


> The county reassessed my house, property tax went from $1600 a year to $600, makes the house payment well under $600 a month, maybe $540. We are happy.



I have my house ,garage and 5 acres and pay $1400 a year county and school tax. not bad I guess. Glad to here you got yours reduced. Some tax rates in my area are insane like on lakefront property.


----------



## northmanlogging

I got me one of them evil ARM mortgages... started at 6.4% we're down in the low 3's now original payment was something like 1200 a month its under 900 now... and the taxes keep getting lower every year... unfortunately its a little house on only 1/3 of an acre... no shop, no garage, some day soon I will have acreage...


----------



## jrcat

Raining again today. Took care of paper work ho hum.....


----------



## treeslayer2003

who would think we get a tropical storm the beginning of june. every time I think of moving to low ground it rains, if i'm goin ta a sand hill it a drought. can't figure weather. destined ta scratch a poor ass.


----------



## rwoods

Gologit, I thought of you today when I heard this song on the radio. Maybe it will cheer you up a little seeing that you had to miss the GTG. Ron 

[video=youtube;HS1KluO1aIo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS1KluO1aIo[/video]


----------



## treeslayer2003

aaaarrrrrrhhhgg! @#$% &*%$ rain again! no sooner got to the woods the #$%@^ bottom droped out. wipers on high not enough. disgusted.


----------



## northmanlogging

Pissed my knee off over the weekend... missed most of monday and part of today at machining... forgot that I can't kneel on that knee... its reminding me of that... hope its better in time for logging... here I thought that it was doing the best its done since a broke it...


----------



## treeslayer2003

yep, my right knee don't like that either, wait till ya left shoulder starts in


----------



## bustedup

treeslayer2003 said:


> yep, my right knee don't like that either, wait till ya left shoulder starts in



ya know if we took bits from all the folks on here .......we may actually get a body that works properly lol


----------



## treeslayer2003

frankin logger


----------



## northmanlogging

I think the only thing good on me right now is my left hand minus the thumb, right eye, and the brain while functioning and making all the correct decisions to continue life, probably should be considered "defective" and left in its glass jar...


----------



## roberte

northmanlogging said:


> I think the only thing good on me right now is my left hand minus the thumb, right eye, and the brain while functioning and making all the correct decisions to continue life, probably should be considered "defective" and left in its glass jar...



Sounds like your listing the best of the worst northman, right there with you. 
After being surgically repaired I'm happy to be out doing it. Like you said in another thread, it takes a special kind of stupid.


----------



## RandyMac

I was off work for a week and they changed a bunch of crap in my office, I hate it.


----------



## roberte

RandyMac said:


> I was off work for a week and they changed a bunch of crap in my office, I hate it.



Did they at least bring you some fresh newspaper


----------



## RandyMac

roberte said:


> Did they at least bring you some fresh newspaper



No, but they fixed latch to the gunport.


----------



## bitzer

Yup, just when the ground is ready to go it rains again. I've had 4 days in the last 2-3 weeks that were good to skid. Can't get into my old routine of cut in the morn, skid in the afternoon. I make a lot better production that way. On the bright side I'm cutting a new job this afternoon while waiting for the last one to dry. Always like being in a new woods. Just have to wait for the forester's call for the go ahead. Landowners always like to get paid before we start.


----------



## treeslayer2003

I am getting sick of looking at jobs that are way to wet to start


----------



## jrcat

:agree2:


----------



## hammerlogging

I will be pleased when someone suggests Oregon prepare their 75ck in a manner that is ready to cut. 


top plate swoop, side plate stickin out in front of the top plate, and the drags...jeesh, bunch of work and it hasn't even cut yet.

I wonder if they sold a ball of metal and called it square chisel chain I'd still buy it, just a few rivets, a little shaping, it's close to cutting from, quit your #####ins and buy another roll.


----------



## treeslayer2003

I reshape every chain I get. just don't make it like they used to.


----------



## madhatte

Found in the warehouse yesterday. I think to myself, "This seems useful":







opened it: 







_FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU_


----------



## Sport Faller

madhatte said:


> Found in the warehouse yesterday. I think to myself, "This seems useful":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> opened it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU_



Hahahahaha
You're expecting Paul Bunyan to fly out of that mother####er with a handfull of files but its just a grinder. Lolz


----------



## madhatte

Sport Faller said:


> Hahahahaha
> You're expecting Paul Bunyan to fly out of that mother####er with a handfull of files but its just a grinder. Lolz




and a BIG grinder, to boot -- I want to sharpen tools, not turn them to dust!


----------



## northmanlogging

sure is a nice crate to keep it in though... so not a total loss...


----------



## rwoods

I don't see a really long extension cord so I guess there is no use in packing it with you on a fire run. :msp_smile: Ron


----------



## madhatte

I just pulled the most colossally bone-headed move in I-don't-even-know-how-long. I severed the coolant line for my heat pump with the weed-whacker. In fairness, I had the whacker back there because there were ferns covering a full quarter of the hear transfer area, which was also why I didn't see the line. Gotta admit, though -- was pretty surprised that those stupid nylon blades could cut copper. All the refrigerant rushed out in about a minute while I stood there cursing my own stupidity. Got a feeling this will be a costly mistake. Ah, well, I doubt I'll make that mistake again.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Glyphosate but then it'd just get in the water.. lol


----------



## Eccentric

madhatte said:


> I just pulled the most colossally bone-headed move in I-don't-even-know-how-long. I severed the coolant line for my heat pump with the weed-whacker. In fairness, I had the whacker back there because there were ferns covering a full quarter of the hear transfer area, which was also why I didn't see the line. Gotta admit, though -- was pretty surprised that those stupid nylon blades could cut copper. All the refrigerant rushed out in about a minute while I stood there cursing my own stupidity. Got a feeling this will be a costly mistake. Ah, well, I doubt I'll make that mistake again.



Nate that's what happens when you *don't* exhibit *forward thinkin'*.....


----------



## madhatte

I'll let y'all know when I get done kicking myself.


----------



## Eccentric

madhatte said:


> I'll let y'all know when I get done kicking myself.



If that's the dumbest thing you do for a while you'e doing well. No need to 'top' this latest one. I'm an overachiever in that regard....

Shouldn't be *too* terribly expensive to make right. You'll have to patch the line and then evacuate and recharge the system. Did you tape over the hole for now to minimize moisture intrusion? How much did the original system charge cost? That'll give you a ballpark of what you're looking at. You coming down in November?


----------



## jrcat

madhatte said:


> I just pulled the most colossally bone-headed move in I-don't-even-know-how-long. I severed the coolant line for my heat pump with the weed-whacker. In fairness, I had the whacker back there because there were ferns covering a full quarter of the hear transfer area, which was also why I didn't see the line. Gotta admit, though -- was pretty surprised that those stupid nylon blades could cut copper. All the refrigerant rushed out in about a minute while I stood there cursing my own stupidity. Got a feeling this will be a costly mistake. Ah, well, I doubt I'll make that mistake again.



Those nylon blades .... will take one hell of a beating and copper , especially K tubing is rather soft. I watched an A/C tech cut the stuff with a utility knife....


----------



## madhatte

Eccentric said:


> You coming down in November?



Sure hope so!



jrcat said:


> I watched an A/C tech cut the stuff with a utility knife....



whoah.


----------



## madhatte

Well, the heat pump is fixed. Two welds and a recharge. A few dollars poorer, a few minutes wiser.


----------



## Gologit

Rain! Most unusual for this part of the country this time of the year.


----------



## Trx250r180

Gologit said:


> Rain! Most unusual for this part of the country this time of the year.



your welcome ,i sent some of this stuff south :msp_wink:


----------



## Gologit

trx250r180 said:


> your welcome ,i sent some of this stuff south :msp_wink:



Good! Now I know who to bill if any culverts wash out on some roads we just re-opened. :msp_biggrin:

Send me some cool weather down for next week...it'll be back in the 90s again.


----------



## treeslayer2003

I didn't think it got that hot over there. at least I ain't the only one sweatin.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> I didn't think it got that hot over there. at least I ain't the only one sweatin.



The coast isn't too bad but I'm working on the west slope of the Sierras. It gets plenty hot but the humidity is generally low so it's bearable.
Still, a couple of cold beverages stashed in the creek on the way in taste awful good on the way out.


----------



## treeslayer2003

that's what gets ya here, had to chew the air today.


----------



## northmanlogging

got to fix a clutch cable and plug a tire on the wifey's Volvo while dodging quarter sized rain drops and lightning... good times... I really need a ####ing shop...


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> got to fix a clutch cable and plug a tire on the wifey's Volvo while dodging quarter sized rain drops and lightning... good times... I really need a ####ing shop...



You gots lightning? None here so far. I was gone for 8 days and the grass grew. It has been too wet to cut it since I got back so we shall see if my little Sears mower can do it or not, if we ever get some dry weather. 

It is kind of muggy out. I have been moving my firewood into the woodshed.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Pouring rain here again on the Northern side of the hill. Had high winds and lightning last night a whopping 61 degrees yesterday. Our winter creek is still running a healthy flow. Juneuary almost done.

And for todays fun I get to have a #%*# kidney stone blasted


----------



## slowp

Cedarkerf said:


> Pouring rain here again on the Northern side of the hill. Had high winds and lightning last night a whopping 61 degrees yesterday. Our winter creek is still running a healthy flow. Juneuary almost done.
> 
> And for todays fun I get to have a #%*# kidney stone blasted



I think that tops my dentist visit yesterday. You win. 

We are having sucker holes, which get my hopes up for dispatching the grass, but then it starts raining about the time I think about getting out the 090 weed whacker.


----------



## twochains

Cedarkerf said:


> Pouring rain here again on the Northern side of the hill. Had high winds and lightning last night a whopping 61 degrees yesterday. Our winter creek is still running a healthy flow. Juneuary almost done.
> 
> And for todays fun I get to have a #%*# kidney stone blasted



Hope everything passes well for you! I can remember my Dad suffering with kidney stones! He was a doctor, one day he was passing a stone and was literally shaking with pain...he asked me to shoot him up with Demerol...I was 12 I think and couldn't get a vein...I had to shoot it in the vein on top of his hand! I was scared to death that I was going to mess up....


----------



## Sport Faller

Gologit said:


> Rain! Most unusual for this part of the country this time of the year.



Been rainin like hell this week and last. Awesome time to start a new landing with a ton of uphill skiddin. Been runnin the stroker a bunch too though. I didnt even kink a bar today


----------



## slowp

Whaaah! I love to eat fresh cherries. The rain is not good for them.

Yakima Herald Republic | Another unlucky turn: Rain causes more problems with cherry harvest


----------



## Gologit

Sport Faller said:


> Been rainin like hell this week and last. Awesome time to start a new landing with a ton of uphill skiddin. Been runnin the stroker a bunch too though. I didnt even kink a bar today



I'm glad to see that you're on a stroker. You lose IQ points for every day you spend on a skidder...really, there's scientific studies and everything.


----------



## StrataTree

Out doin residential work today...in the rain. We've worked in more rain lately than I remember in a while. I had that soggy wet thing goin on but I wasn't too cold, and had dried out by mid afternoon. The chipper went and jumped on the fritz for half an hour in the third quarter. Kind of took the wind (and the time) out of our sails, so after chippin a little tree felled last week, we ended the day sharpening saws at the barn. T put a new blade on the polesaw and got an old ghost of a saw fired and ready. And I moved the stump grinder to get a bobcat into the bay to fix a flat. Then pretty much just talked shop. I havn't really minded too awful much 'bout workin in the rain. Not lately anyway. I used to despise it, maybe that was a colder rain I'm thinkin of though. Soon, it will be HOT. I will think of this time then. And be reliving these wet early summer days while burning through the fire of August.


----------



## madhatte

Cut a bunch of trees with the DNR guys in preparation for a S-212 class later this week. Strong wind blowing across the prairie. Some wedging against that wind. I tire easily beating wedges. Got a chip in my eye. Flushed the chip out with saline, but not before scratching the cornea a bit. It'll be OK in the morning but it's sure irritated now. Yesterday I drilled pines with the 'ologist for a study. Got into a MESS of mosquitoes. Normally I don't whine about bugs but this was BAD. Probably got bit a hundred times in as many seconds. I'm pretty good with an increment borer; I very seldom miss the pith by more than a year or two no matter how big the tree. The trick is to start the bit tangent to the tree, and ignore your tendency to want to be perpendicular to the bark. Bark lies. Tree doesn't.


----------



## StrataTree

Sweet post, makes me miss the old growth surveys I did and the big 36" (?) increment borer we used... Used to get some big numbers, sometimes wouldn't even reach the center and we'd have to extrapolate based on the last two inches of core sample. A few in the 1400 yr. ballpark. Got pretty good myself. Dialing in the heights was a tad more work, using clinometers and sometimes a relascope, we'd have to hike a fair piece, dragging tape, to find that spot where both DBH and the top were visible...ahhh the memories! Wilderness CVS...in western Oregon


----------



## madhatte

StrataTree said:


> Wilderness CVS...in western Oregon



I did CVS in W. OR for the BLM in '97-'98. That was a fun project. Got to see some real wild country.


----------



## StrataTree

Yea Madhatte, that was a fun project! I did it privately from 93/94- 96/97.... Was south as far as the border with Cali and east to the cascade crest. Along the coast and north up to the cottage grove/Eugene area. Beautiful country for sure. Felt honored to be on that project, pounded a lot of stakes...got hellied in to one, just so we could finish in one day. The last year I was on it we pounded rebar so future crews could use metal detectors to find our plots. I wonder how that's workin out...:msp_smile:


----------



## madhatte

Well, as I understand it, CVS was the dataset they built FVS from, which is a working standalone model now. I know all original plots have been revisited at least once. I suspect that a third visit was required for validation (two's a line, 3's a trend), so I'm not sure there'll be a big push to remeasure the whole lot a fourth time. Too bad, really -- lots of those plots are in places that nobody will likely ever go again. Pretty much all of the biggest trees I've ever measured were on that project.


----------



## StrataTree

Thanks for that info! Great to hear an update. I stopped workin in the woods for a spell after that project. I've been workin for a residential tree service lately though and doin whatever they need from climbing to grinding stumps. First job I've liked since the CVS project. Go figure! Stick me in the trees and I'm happy! Yeah, I think often about the remote places we went and the wild places we saw. Places where possibly no one has ever been or ever will be...at least not many white people. Gives me chills now thinkin about it! I lived out of my truck for like four years doin that, just comin to town to do laundry and buy food. Felt like a stranger among people during that time. I used to hunt down a west or east facing slope at elevation to drive to and car camp...the sunrises and sunsets were my closest friends. Cliffs and creeks always drew me in and I would explore that terrain in my downtime which wasn't very often really. I used to use a stop watch and place it at plot center to help keep me on track. The mental game was important to get it all done and within tolerance. One day my watch went on the fritz and I was about as far away as possible from the rig when it started gettin dark. I blasted out the last point and broke out the map and compass to try to dial in the shortest line back to the rig, it got dark and my headlamp didnt penetrate the fog too good. I almost walked off a huge cliff that night, the hairs on the back of my neck were my only warning...came within a couple feet. Thick brush and rain with a moonless darkness settled all around. Finally got to the rig about 2 AM. Took the next day off and recovered. Had my girlfriend at the time as my partner and she was pretty freaked out and semi hypothermic during that exit...whoops. Started carrying two watches after that one. :redface:


----------



## RandyMac

First sunny day in over a week.


----------



## slowp

Fairly dry here, but extremely muggy. Feels like....Up Nort Wisconsin kind of. Tomorry the heat wave starts, I guess.


----------



## madhatte

StrataTree said:


> I lived out of my truck for like four years doin that, just comin to town to do laundry and buy food. Felt like a stranger among people during that time.



Yep, that was the life. Collected my mail General Delivery at whatever town was closest to camp. 

Funny you should mention hypothermia; one of my colleagues from those days later died in the Siskiyous in a snowstorm. Went back for a tool, against better judgment. Total Jack London scene. White-out rolled in, he stayed put under a tree. Apparently he was unable to get a fire started. Tragic. Hell of a guy.


----------



## StrataTree

Wow, what a way to go! Brutal situation...weather can change quick and temps too. Sorry to hear that, flippin tool.


----------



## madhatte

Exactly. Things just moved quicker than anybody anticipated. Yet another reminder to "Be informed on current and expected weather conditions".


----------



## StrataTree

Looks like its gonna be a HOT one today! Forgot to freeze some water... :frown:


----------



## slowp

The humdidity is particularly bad. I felt and probably will again today, like I was back in Up Nort Wisconsin.
This is from the online _Oregonian._


_June, which has been averagely high and averagely wet to date in Northwest Oregon, is about to get un-averagely hot.

Think steamy--a kind of Midwestern, humid kind of heat, with high dewpoints, which will shoot the heat indices to near 100 starting Friday and extending into next week.

“The higher the dewpoint, the more humid it is,’’ said Andy Bryant, a forecaster for the National Weather Service in Portland. “Our dewpoints are usually pretty low. But when they are high, it’s harder for your body to get rid of heat. It’s going to feel a lot warmer than usual.”

View full sizeNational Weather Service 

In other words, you sweat more but the sweat doesn’t evaporate as quickly. People, and pets, tend to wilt.
Bryant said a big dome of high pressure will push heat into the region from Arizona and Utah, where temperatures could push into the 120 range during the next several days. The forecast high in Phoenix today is 119 degrees.

Around here, high temperatures will spike to near 90 Friday through Sunday, before rising into the mid-90s Monday and Tuesday, Bryant said. The heat will again be accompanied by a moist, southerly flow, bringing dewpoints up again into the highly uncomfortable range.

Temperatures will moderate Wednesday into the low to mid-80s, and stay there into the Fourth of July holiday.

Most of the record highs for the next several days are in the high 90s to 100s, so we may not break any records. But it’s going to feel like it.

For relief, Bryant said, head to the coast, where highs will be in the upper 70s, to near 80 degrees. With no fear of dewpoints. 



--Stuart Tomlinson_


----------



## northmanlogging

I only fell three trees today:msp_sad: Bent my bar, lost one off in a deep ugly hole, then I decide to go film a middle weight ceder... set the camera all up hit the go button, proceed to make some really nice cuts... tree goes right where I want it all super cool and stuff...


turn the camera off so I can start bucking... Whats that buzzing sound, and where did that arrow shaped black cloud come from... 

Turns out I parked it right on top of a hornets nest, no stings on me but its sitting tight untill tomorrow.

That was my sign to call it a day...

Get home go to show off my #####in falling video to the wifey, and its just a picture of a tree...


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> I only fell three trees today:msp_sad: Bent my bar, lost one off in a deep ugly hole, then I decide to go film a middle weight ceder... set the camera all up hit the go button, proceed to make some really nice cuts... tree goes right where I want it all super cool and stuff...
> 
> 
> turn the camera off so I can start bucking... Whats that buzzing sound, and where did that arrow shaped black cloud come from...
> 
> Turns out I parked it right on top of a hornets nest, no stings on me but its sitting tight untill tomorrow.
> 
> That was my sign to call it a day...
> 
> Get home go to show off my #####in falling video to the wifey, and its just a picture of a tree...



ya mean yer saw is on the bees? I left a saw 3 days once, it was in between 2 yellow jacket holes.


----------



## RandyMac

bunch of wieners, deal with the bugs ferchristsake!


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> ya mean yer saw is on the bees? I left a saw 3 days once, it was in between 2 yellow jacket holes.



No either I parked that tree on a nest or the nest was in the tree... figured it was a short hop and a skip before they went from arrow formation to fighter plane, and chased me into the river... 

I'll deal with em tomorrow. MY partner (who is braver/dumber) came out later in the day and got close enough to em to maybe think they could be honeybees, which is awesome if we can save em cause the wifeys hive more or less died over winter. If not there are two cans of raid in the crummy.:msp_ohmy:


----------



## forestryworks

Mild summer here so far in NE. Highs in the 80s, lows in upper 50s - low 60s. Easy compared to Texas - Dad called earlier and said it was 108 today. But the folks in the grocery store today sure were harpin' about "the heat and humidity". It wouldn't be so humid if they didn't water all that damn corn. Looks like a giant lawn around here.


----------



## Gologit

View attachment 302356
......


----------



## treeslayer2003

RandyMac said:


> bunch of wieners, deal with the bugs ferchristsake!



randy, i'm sure ya got stung up a time or two.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> No either I parked that tree on a nest or the nest was in the tree... figured it was a short hop and a skip before they went from arrow formation to fighter plane, and chased me into the river...
> 
> I'll deal with em tomorrow. MY partner (who is braver/dumber) came out later in the day and got close enough to em to maybe think they could be honeybees, which is awesome if we can save em cause the wifeys hive more or less died over winter. If not there are two cans of raid in the crummy.:msp_ohmy:



oh, honey bees ain't bad. cut a red oak last year full of um. topped, pulled out, loaded n hauled. they flew all around but stung no one. I recently met a guy who will come get them for free. but he don't want yellow jackets tho:msp_sneaky:


----------



## northmanlogging

Guess who got to go to the ER last night... simple docs visit turned into uncontrolled bleeding by around 10:30... got home around 3 am, I'm normally not a bleeder... kinda weird.

So no strenuous work for me... still need to take care of that bee/hornet tree, And two back leaners next to HO's house so he can put his doggy fence back up...


----------



## roberte

treeslayer2003 said:


> randy, i'm sure ya got stung up a time or two.



I know I have been touched up twice, up the pant leg and the armpit.
When the yellow jackets want a piece of you there gonna get it.
Had a close call last fall, but it was just cold and wet enough that I didn't get it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Guess who got to go to the ER last night... simple docs visit turned into uncontrolled bleeding by around 10:30... got home around 3 am, I'm normally not a bleeder... kinda weird.
> 
> So no strenuous work for me... still need to take care of that bee/hornet tree, And two back leaners next to HO's house so he can put his doggy fence back up...



i'm sorry to hear that. hope ya ok.


----------



## treeslayer2003

roberte said:


> I know I have been touched up twice, up the pant leg and the armpit.
> When the yellow jackets want a piece of you there gonna get it.
> Had a close call last fall, but it was just cold and wet enough that I didn't get it.



I seem to get it 2-3 times a summer. hade a knee brace on once, they went in that hole over the knee, musta been 10-12 got me in the knee. ain't had to wear it since. I hate yellow jackets, they hurt ya worse than any snake will scare ya.


----------



## roberte

treeslayer2003 said:


> I seem to get it 2-3 times a summer. hade a knee brace on once, they went in that hole over the knee, musta been 10-12 got me in the knee. ain't had to wear it since. I hate yellow jackets, they hurt ya worse than any snake will scare ya.



At least a snake you might be able to get with a bar tip.


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> At least a snake you might be able to get with a bar tip.



Bro if snakes about juss call the AS snake charmer.........ie TC he seems to like those creatures lol


----------



## treeslayer2003

roberte said:


> At least a snake you might be able to get with a bar tip.



jus be sure to under cut him so ya don't wear it.


----------



## northmanlogging

Well so much for a light day...

managed to get a Load out even with setting up a hive box and playing Russian roulette with the bee tree, got three logs out of it... lost a little chunk in the middle to the bees. I did manage to saw right through the bottom of their hive and no one got stung, gots some pics I'll have to load...

Once they settled down from the initial shock of having their house on its side they where very mellow little bees, kind odd to have em bouncing of the tin hat... They make a line straight for home and if anything gets in the way they don't seem to pay much attention to it and plow right into it...


----------



## twochains

roberte said:


> At least a snake you might be able to get with a bar tip.



Oh Hell don't do that...like slayer said, you'll wear it! First thing I do is shut the saw off and find a stck er something. If you are chasing a copperhead, there could be another one right by it. If you leave yer saw running sitting on the ground, the vibration of the saw could attract the other one. Then when ya get back to yer saw you have visitor!...I have had that happen before!


----------



## Eccentric

Dammitit'shotandhumid!!!!


Been over 100 degrees here since about noon. Unbearably humid. Rained off and on much of last week.......and that water is steaming out of the grass and soil now. Absolutely NO breeze whatsoever. I feel like I'm trapped in a giant's armpit...


----------



## northmanlogging

*Logging bee...*

Tis not much but made for a pretty fun day.:smile2: 

Got the wifey out again so she could play with the bees


----------



## treeslayer2003

Eccentric said:


> Dammitit'shotandhumid!!!!
> 
> 
> Been over 100 degrees here since about noon. Unbearably humid. Rained off and on much of last week.......and that water is steaming out of the grass and soil now. Absolutely NO breeze whatsoever. I feel like I'm trapped in a giant's armpit...



he he, welcome to southeast weather.


----------



## Eccentric

treeslayer2003 said:


> he he, welcome to southeast weather.



When I was 14 my folks took me on a train trip across country along the southern route, up the east coast, and back across the northern route. Went to New Orleans and Disneyworld in *June*. Holy crap that was hot and nasty. Went to DC for the Smithsonian, Arlington, the capitol, and such. Visited relatives in Pa and WV. The cicadas were in 'bloom'. Buzzing, nasty, humid, and hot. You folks can keep that weather. I'll deal with the occasional earthquake....


----------



## treeslayer2003

yep, when them things sing it's hot.


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Tis not much but made for a pretty fun day.:smile2:
> 
> Got the wifey out again so she could play with the bees



Surprised to see 'em in a cedar. Usually the terpenes send 'em packin'. I'm guessing that the catface scar acts as a barrier to unsavory smells? Pretty cool, either way.


----------



## treeslayer2003

well, a 4 foot tank will not fit in a service body since the manufacturer welds a 1/4 inch tab on each side for god knows what reason. really didn't want this to be a major deal today, but i'm into it now.


----------



## RandyMac

Eccentric said:


> Dammitit'shotandhumid!!!!
> 
> 
> Been over 100 degrees here since about noon. Unbearably humid. Rained off and on much of last week.......and that water is steaming out of the grass and soil now. Absolutely NO breeze whatsoever. I feel like I'm trapped in a giant's armpit...



95531 Weather Forecast from Weather Underground


----------



## twochains

RandyMac said:


> 95531 Weather Forecast from Weather Underground



and... LMAO


----------



## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> Surprised to see 'em in a cedar. Usually the terpenes send 'em packin'. I'm guessing that the catface scar acts as a barrier to unsavory smells? Pretty cool, either way.



From the looks of the cleaned out side of the log there's bark all the way around the rotten bit, I'm thinking this was one that overcame and grew around a smaller tree? Sent the rest to the mill, probably wont get much out of it but the but didn't look to bad, and the top only had a bit of rot, the middle log still has the bee mobile home on it...


----------



## Eccentric

*Peterheads.....*



RandyMac said:


> 95531 Weather Forecast from Weather Underground





twochains said:


> and... LMAO



Man 63deg would have been nice. Today wasn't as bad thank God. Forcasts were for it being hotter today than yesterday. It 'only' got to about 93 today. Braved the heat/humidity and cleaned/rearranged the shop today.


----------



## redprospector

Well, I had to go to El Paso Thursday to get the new engine for my Fecon. 
Saw a thermometer on a sign that claimed 112. I don't know how acurate it was, they were only claiming 108 on the radio.
This draught is a bad one. I've been screaming for 15 months now that our town has to do something different with our water system. I've been voted down or dismissed on everything I have brought up. I was told that we have plenty of water. Well there was an emergency meeting the other day to officially announce that we are out of water...Hmm, imagine that, run the pumps on your wells 24-7 for 9 months straight and they go dry...who'd a thunk it? The county is now hauling us water in a tanker truck so we can have something come out when we turn the nob. 
That wise comedian Ron White was right when he said; "You can't fix stupid".

Andy


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> From the looks of the cleaned out side of the log there's bark all the way around the rotten bit, I'm thinking this was one that overcame and grew around a smaller tree?



Could well be (bee?) Cedars are notorious for having lots of tops ($5 phrase for this is "incomplete apical dominance") and will push up, up, up until something sticks. It's their strategy for out-waiting faster-growing firs and alders. Unlike the Pine family, the Cypress family can fuse and grow stems together, though it is not a thing that I recall seeing in western redcedars. If it weren't for the bees, I'd suggest autopsying the tree to figure out how it's put together, but that's just the tree nerd in me speaking.


----------



## Gologit

It was 81 degrees at 3:30 this morning. I think I'll assign myself to the water truck today.


----------



## redprospector

They say if you don't like the weather in New Mexico...wait a few minutes.
It started raining like a cow peeing on a flat rock early this morning. Quit about 8 am, started again about 7 pm.
I say let it rain, I'll work some other time. 

Andy


----------



## northmanlogging

And here we have exhibit A: proving that the north man is a moron...:msp_sad:

This is what happens when you toss yer little saw in the back of the skidder and don't pay any attention to the fact its hanging out of the arse end...


----------



## Cedarkerf

Ooops


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> And here we have exhibit A: proving that the north man is a moron...:msp_sad:
> 
> This is what happens when you toss yer little saw in the back of the skidder and don't pay any attention to the fact its hanging out of the arse end...



aaaaaahhhhh! I have done the exact same thing. jus need a new tank, they easy to change. I built a wood box bolted to the skidder to prevent this.


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> And here we have exhibit A: proving that the north man is a moron...:msp_sad:
> 
> This is what happens when you toss yer little saw in the back of the skidder and don't pay any attention to the fact its hanging out of the arse end...




Looks like a little duck tape could fix it. They have different colors and patterns so your saw could reflect your personality. For instance, Old Sparkless has a strip of flames on it.


----------



## northmanlogging

already swapped out the tank... think I messed up the impulse line though... try again tomorrow

did think about JBing the bastard back together though.


----------



## northmanlogging

*Splicing...*

Is it strange that I would rather splice cable then watch TV?

Had some things to think about, this helps... I'm not real good at it but they've all held so far...


----------



## StrataTree

hmmm watching cable...splicing cable...I'll choose splice. we cancelled our cable and still can't find the time for all the side projects I have on my "to do" list. If I had cable it would be hopeless!


----------



## RandyMac

We turned cable tv box in on Monday, told them we wanted to keep the internet, paid the adjusted bill and left.
A simple deal right? Tuesday morning a tech comes by, climbs the pole, no internet. I go to the office where some pinhead tries to tell me that the next appointment would be Wednesday afternoon. It got loud in there. An hour later a tech comes by, climbs the pole, tells me all is well. I tell him, it isn't working. This pinhead tells me the modem is shot, so back to the office for a new one. Back home, big surprise, no worky. Another trip to the office, where it got loud again. An hour later, a tech climbs the pole, same result, he checks the line to the house, checks the line in the house, installs yet another new modem, makes several cell calls. Still nothing. He climbs the pole, then the pole on the other side of the street, then back to the first pole. He replaces a line that was new back last September and ping, the 'net is back. An hour later, Charter calls wanting to know how things went....
LMAO!!!


----------



## slowp

RandyMac said:


> We turned cable tv box in on Monday, told them we wanted to keep the internet, paid the adjusted bill and left.
> A simple deal right? Tuesday morning a tech comes by, climbs the pole, no internet. I go to the office where some pinhead tries to tell me that the next appointment would be Wednesday afternoon. It got loud in there. An hour later a tech comes by, climbs the pole, tells me all is well. I tell him, it isn't working. This pinhead tells me the modem is shot, so back to the office for a new one. Back home, big surprise, no worky. Another trip to the office, where it got loud again. An hour later, a tech climbs the pole, same result, he checks the line to the house, checks the line in the house, installs yet another new modem, makes several cell calls. Still nothing. He climbs the pole, then the pole on the other side of the street, then back to the first pole. He replaces a line that was new back last September and ping, the 'net is back. An hour later, Charter calls wanting to know how things went....
> LMAO!!!



At least you have "an office" to deal with. We have to call a location somewhere in the world, listen to bad music with a voice telling us how important our call is for what seems like years, then they tell a lie. In spite of all that, sometimes the tech guy will show up and he apologizes and fixes things.


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> He replaces a line that was new back last September and ping, the 'net is back.



Aw fertheluvva


----------



## StrataTree

All that pole climbing ...? They're lookin to charge ya for somethin. Our local office gave us the runaround for six months. I kept tryin to tell 'em, we just want Internet...they couldn't get a guy out or we need a NEW modem or... Finally just called century link. I think maybe as far as the cable companies are concerned there's just no $ in Internet only accounts, so they all but push us out the door...whatev! Screw em ... I'll watch all those shows nxt year on Netflix.

Same thing though... It got a bit loud in our local cable office when I was in there too??!! No, I'm not cuttin a check today! Sorry.


----------



## madhatte

No wonder I've been feeling like I was getting punched in the chest all day for the last couple of weeks -- I forgot that I stuck the tach in my radio harness one day when I was pocket-challenged! Took the tach out and now the harness feels like it's not even there. D'OH!


----------



## northmanlogging

tried out my spring boards todayView attachment 305111
they worked excellently.


Same tree, back it up stuff a wedge or two, then three or four... grand total 10, yes 10 wedges one tree. Had to go back to the crummy and get more... 2 hours later... I'm limbing up said tree almost to the end and she starts to roll on me, I'm 10' in the air at this point... only option is to run the length back to solidish ground... only rolls about 3/4 of a turn but did manage to suck my log tape under it in the process... But more importantly my fat arse managed to stay on top of it without dropping my saw!

By this time its 12:45, and thanks to Mr burn ban I'm supposed to shut down at 1... just leaves more felling for tomorrow...


----------



## slowp

I forgot to look at what the precaution class was today. But I was OK and done cutting my firewood  before 1.


----------



## floyd

Probably the same it is here...don't be lighting any farts or the whole place will go up.


----------



## paccity

two bucket trucks and my grinder all went down this morn. one truck hydro leak. fixed. truck two the planeteries out on the rotatory gearbox. not fixed . cant get the damn gearbox to come out , damn neer stroked out this afternoon trying to get it to come loose. grinder just a diode in the alt , fixed. spending coin not making today. i'll go out later when it's c ooler and try that gearbox again. and it being fri don't help. :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## floyd

Always something with mechanical equipment. I did good haying this yr...only $400 or so in repairs.


----------



## slowp

The mini-mart that still has non-ethanol gas was out of the higher octane. Darn:msp_biggrin: weedwhacking may be curtailed. Should I have a saw emergency, there are the little cans of premix waiting.


----------



## paccity

REWILDING THE INTERIOR – Beware the LCC’s | omots page


----------



## paccity

http://http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Feds-to-start-shooting-barred-owls-in-Pacific-Northwest-216610261.html


----------



## RandyMac

They already did something like that to the ocean

Northern California Marine Protected Areas


----------



## paccity

they have done it here already and going for more. :msp_angry: cant fish hardly anywhere . thats part of the reason i sold my big boat.


----------



## Joe46

"Rewilding"? These people must stay up at night to come up with these terms. Oh, and these single species forest? What's going to happen to all the wildlife that depend on diversity? Sorry for the soapbox.


----------



## madhatte

We've got some of that going on too. It's a pretty contentious issue and there are a lot of bad feelings all around. Speaking of which, I've got a meeting I need to be at in a couple of minutes. Please note that in the article I linked the authorship is credited to a NGO. This appears to be how it's done now.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Joe46 said:


> "Rewilding"? These people must stay up at night to come up with these terms. Oh, and these single species forest? What's going to happen to all the wildlife that depend on diversity? Sorry for the soapbox.



let me slide my soap box right along side. a single species forest is not a forest, it a sterile tree farm.


----------



## treeslayer2003

ya ever wonder why ya don't hear bout this stuff on the news? don't look good. do you guys mean recreational fishing? surely not I hope.


----------



## slowp

I foolishly got a fishing license this year. I had no idea how complex the rules are. Many trees must be killed for the rule book, I guess that's where the silver lining is?

The Pinchot Partners, is the farce that supposedly gives input and gets grants for our area. Unfortunately, the local people on it do not have a high level formal education, and the enviros on it do. Guess who usually gets their way? Hint--not local.


----------



## madhatte

I broke something deep in one of the datasets from a cruise, and now the numbers won't behave themselves. It would be an easier error to find if it showed up as +/- at least one order of magnitude off, but instead it's in the ballpark but plain wrong. It's aggravating.


----------



## slowp

Ruh roh. This is us. From the weather people:

_... Red flag warning in effect from 1 PM this afternoon to 11 PM
PDT this evening for scattered lightning for fire weather zones 658 and
659... 

The National Weather Service in Seattle has issued a red flag
warning... which is in effect from 1 PM this afternoon to 11 PM
PDT this evening. 

* Affected area... fire weather zones 658 and 659. 

* Wind... gusty and erratic winds can be expected near thunderstorms.

* Thunderstorms... scattered thunderstorms are expected to develop
this afternoon and evening. Rainfall with these storms will
initially be light... increasing into the evening.

* Impacts... lighting that strikes dry fuels will have the
potential to ignite fire and increase initial attack.

Precautionary/preparedness actions... 

A red flag warning means that critical fire weather conditions
are either occurring now... or will shortly. Scattered lightning in
dry fuels can contribute to numerous fire starts and stretch
available firefighting resources. Thunderstorms can also bring
erratic and gusty winds to existing fires._

It sure is muggy and the skeeters are thirsty.


----------



## floyd

Even though I started as early as possible I did a poor job of skinning the steer I butchered yesterday. Bright side I did not get stung by the yellow jackets or bald face hornets.


----------



## paccity

solid 30 min of rain. still dry but enjoyed it none the less.


----------



## slowp

paccity said:


> solid 30 min of rain. still dry but enjoyed it none the less.



Not much here. Just a few thunder booms yesterday afternoon.


----------



## madhatte

This is gonna sound crazy, but I implore you all to stay with me here. 

1) Cutting
2) In Washington
3) In The Rain
4) In August

is hot, wet work. 

Just thought I should point that out.

(props to our friends in the South who don't call it "humid" unless they're blowing bubbles in the air)


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Well, ####! :bang:
> 
> View attachment 309620
> 
> 
> View attachment 309621



What process would you use to describe this? :msp_wink:

Did you call Vortech?


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> This is gonna sound crazy, but I implore you all to stay with me here.
> 
> 1) Cutting
> 2) In Washington
> 3) In The Rain
> 4) In August
> 
> is hot, wet work.
> 
> Just thought I should point that out.
> 
> (props to our friends in the South who don't call it "humid" unless they're blowing bubbles in the air)



Always look on the bright side....

I am hoping that enough precip has fallen to get the mushrooms to pop up and then the huckleberry pickers will leave the berries and go for fungi.
The :censored: tents are up. :msp_angry:


----------



## paccity

ya broke your bike dude. sorry.


----------



## slowp

I believe we have been transported to the mideastern part of the U.S. My humdidity reader says 91% outside and it only cooled down to 62. 
Cupboard doors have swelled and are sticking. The slugs have reemerged and are copulating. Yuck. 

Grow mushrooms grow!


----------



## Samlock

I picked today a bucket of clean gypsy mushrooms. I believe the species is also known in North America. That's not the subject of my description, though. Where there is gypsy mushrooms, there is also moose flies. Let the season of abscesses begin!


----------



## madhatte

if
*moose fly : deer fly :: moose : deer*
then 
_ whoah, sorry, man_
end


----------



## slowp

Are those the big flies that take chunks of flesh with their bite? And then you have a bump that takes forever to quit itching? Owie!:msp_ohmy:


----------



## Samlock

No, that's a parasite of moose, a flat and hard to kill bugger, looking and moving much like a giant louse. It has a pair of wings, which it will drop off once it's landed on you. Then it starts crawling. It will get everywhere - under your clothes, in your hair, beard, in your nose and ears. You'll find them in your head hours after shower. Bites don't feel like anything. Although the people who spend their lives in the woods mäy become sensitive to it's saliva. Then bites leave running and itching boils lasting 3 weeks or more.

The wiki says the species Lipoptena cervi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia has introduced to North America. Congratulations.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Are those the big flies that take chunks of flesh with their bite? And then you have a bump that takes forever to quit itching? Owie!:msp_ohmy:



Remember the horse flies when you were a kid? They didn't bite...they sat down with a knife and fork, put on a bib, pulled their chair up close, and started slicing and dicing. Grandma would put witch-hazel on the wounds...every kid in the family could hit high C when that stuff soaked in.


----------



## Gologit

Samlock said:


> No, that's a parasite of moose, a flat and hard to kill bugger, looking and moving much like a giant louse. It has a pair of wings, which it will drop off once it's landed on you. Then it starts crawling. It will get everywhere - under your clothes, in your hair, beard, in your nose and ears. You'll find them in your head hours after shower. Bites don't feel like anything. Although the people who spend their lives in the woods mäy become sensitive to it's saliva. Then bites leave running and itching boils lasting 3 weeks or more.
> 
> The wiki says the species Lipoptena cervi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia has introduced to North America. Congratulations.



No wonder so many Finns came over here. Running and itching boils that lasted 3 weeks??!!! Sounds like something you'd pick up in a New Orleans house of ill repute.


----------



## Samlock

Gologit said:


> No wonder so many Finns came over here. Running and itching boils that lasted 3 weeks??!!! Sounds like something you'd pick up in a New Orleans house of ill repute.



That's a good theory. However moose fly is a newcomer in this country. Arrived only 40 years ago. The only thing that kills it is a load of strong moonshine sprayed on it.

Most people won't suffer much from the bites, moon flies are just being icky. However, most of the loggers I know get nasty rash. I have heard of people who had to leave the business because of the little devils.


----------



## 1270d

Gologit said:


> Remember the horse flies when you were a kid? They didn't bite...they sat down with a knife and fork, put on a bib, pulled their chair up close, and started slicing and dicing. Grandma would put witch-hazel on the wounds...every kid in the family could hit high C when that stuff soaked in.



You make it sound like these buggers aren't around anymore. I wish. Pretty sure the amount of flesh lost to these things along with deer and fish flies could be measured in pounds. At least I don't swell like some people.


----------



## hammerlogging

madhatte said:


> if
> *moose fly : deer fly :: moose : deer*
> then
> _ whoah, sorry, man_
> end



excellent, reminiscent of the SATs, but provided good perspective


----------



## Gologit

1270d said:


> You make it sound like these buggers aren't around anymore. I wish. Pretty sure the amount of flesh lost to these things along with deer and fish flies could be measured in pounds. At least I don't swell like some people.



Yeah, but they were _meaner_ when I was a kid. _Bigger_ too. Some of them were so big that they had to file flight plans, use a stewardess, and have a rotating red light attached to their tail.

We were too poor to afford model airplanes so we'd catch one and tie a hayrope to it. If we could harness four or five together, and the hayrope didn't break, they could pull our Red Flyer wagon to school.

And before you say anything else, yes, it _was_ ten miles to school. In the snow. Uphill. Both ways.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> Yeah, but they were _meaner_ when I was a kid. _Bigger_ too. Some of them were so big that they had to file flight plans, use a stewardess, and have a rotating red light attached to their tail.
> 
> We were too poor to afford model airplanes so we'd catch one and tie a hayrope to it. If we could harness four or five together, and the hayrope didn't break, they could pull our Red Flyer wagon to school.
> 
> And before you say anything else, yes, it _was_ ten miles to school. In the snow. Uphill. Both ways.



you forgot to say bare footed.


----------



## 1270d

I'll bet you were one of those cruel children who pushed a piece of grass into the horsefly's butt and watched it fly straight up out of sight. And laughed and laughed and laughed. I've heard such children exist. 
















Great summer entertainment


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> you forgot to say bare footed.



Actually not. We always saved last year's Sears Roebuck and the Monkey Ward catalogs. Wrap enough pages of those around your feet, in enough layers, and your feet stayed reasonably dry. 
My brothers and I used to fight over who got to wrap their feet with the lady's lingerie section. It was easy to tell who won...he walked with his head down studying his footwear.


----------



## Gologit

1270d said:


> I'll bet you were one of those cruel children who pushed a piece of grass into the horsefly's butt and watched it fly straight up out of sight. And laughed and laughed and laughed. I've heard such children exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great summer entertainment



No, but we heard that people in the upper midwest did. After they ran out of mice to torture they needed some other form of entertainment.


----------



## 1270d

Strange. I heard that too. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4 Beta


----------



## northmanlogging

Grass hoppers, mormon crickets, and a tennis racket in WY... or stick if you could find one. The occasional fruit bat, and turkey vulture too...


----------



## Gologit

*Descriptive process?*

Pilot car drivers with a Mario Andretti complex.


----------



## slowp

Get that low boy driver scowl ready... and tell the pilot car driver about the I-5 bridge over the Skagit.  Look glum.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Get that low boy driver scowl ready... and tell the pilot car driver about the I-5 bridge over the Skagit.  Look glum.



He might be at the Skagit already! I'm sitting here at the pavement waiting for him to realize there's no big red KW with a D-6 on the lowbed in his rear view mirror. He hit the highway, took a hard right, and that was the last I saw of him. He doesn't answer his phone or the radio.

And believe me, looking glum is no problem.


----------



## Rounder

The hornets over in Idaho are something else this year....And my body seems a little more offended by their stings this year too......Hope it cools off real soon.

Take care - Sam


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> The hornets over in Idaho are something else this year....And my body seems a little more offended by their stings this year too......Hope it cools off real soon.
> 
> Take care - Sam



They can smell the Coors, you need to switch beers. :msp_razz:


----------



## redprospector

Gologit said:


> He might be at the Skagit already! I'm sitting here at the pavement waiting for him to realize there's no big red KW with a D-6 on the lowbed in his rear view mirror. He hit the highway, took a hard right, and that was the last I saw of him. He doesn't answer his phone or the radio.
> 
> And believe me, looking glum is no problem.



You ever catch up with that pilot car Pokey?

Andy


----------



## Gologit

redprospector said:


> You ever catch up with that pilot car Pokey?
> 
> Andy



Pfffftttt! I'm not pokey, I'm, uh, _deliberate_. Yeah, that's it...deliberate. I like that. When I drive the lowbed, which isn't often, I get very deliberate.

He eventually came back. He said "Well, you told me to stay out in front of you". He was right, that's what I told him. I should have told him that didn't mean two counties in front though. LOL...he's a good kid, just green and full of energy. His Dad is one of the fallers, one of the good ones...and the kid goes to college and scrapes up whatever work he can find. Gotta honor that.


----------



## madhatte

Two words: "Gub", "Mint".


----------



## redprospector

Gologit said:


> Pfffftttt! I'm not pokey, I'm, uh, _deliberate_. Yeah, that's it...deliberate. I like that. When I drive the lowbed, which isn't often, I get very deliberate.
> 
> He eventually came back. He said "Well, you told me to stay out in front of you". He was right, that's what I told him. I should have told him that didn't mean two counties in front though. LOL...he's a good kid, just green and full of energy. His Dad is one of the fallers, one of the good ones...and the kid goes to college and scrapes up whatever work he can find. Gotta honor that.



Hahaha. My son say's I drive like a turtle when I'm moving equipment.

Andy


----------



## paccity

redprospector said:


> Hahaha. My son say's I drive like a turtle when I'm moving equipment.
> 
> Andy



better to get there than not.:msp_wink:


----------



## redprospector

paccity said:


> better to get there than not.:msp_wink:



That's pretty much the way I see it.
I usually just tell him that I'd rather get to the job an hour late, than to get to the grave yard 20 years early. 

Andy


----------



## roberte

redprospector said:


> Hahaha. My son say's I drive like a turtle when I'm moving equipment.
> 
> Andy



I drive the crummy that way. slow


----------



## Gologit

redprospector said:


> That's pretty much the way I see it.
> I usually just tell him that I'd rather get to the job an hour late, than to get to the grave yard 20 years early.
> 
> Andy



Yup. The sound of metal sliding on pavement is upsetting. Expensive too.


----------



## Gologit

roberte said:


> I drive the crummy that way. slow



Sure you do.


[video=youtube;eMaKsAwrkZM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eMaKsAwrkZM[/video]


----------



## northmanlogging

When the wifey agrees to a crummy ride she spends most of time gripping the door handle looking for a place to bail...


----------



## slowp

Meeting this one on a slick road struck terror in my heart. He wasn't the best driver in the snow but he was the only one on the crew with a license to drive. 

View attachment 310449


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> he was the only one on the crew with a license to drive.



Heh. That was me on my first contract crew.


----------



## redprospector

slowp said:


> Meeting this one on a slick road struck terror in my heart. He wasn't the best driver in the snow but he was the only one on the crew with a license to drive.
> 
> View attachment 310449



That's the first "*REAL*" crummy I've seen in the forestry & logging forum in quite a while. 
Most of the crummy pictures I see here are just pickup trucks, single cab, maybe extended cab. 
Two full size seats is the minimum requirement for a crummy.

Andy


----------



## slowp

redprospector said:


> That's the first "*REAL*" crummy I've seen in the forestry & logging forum in quite a while.
> Most of the crummy pictures I see here are just pickup trucks, single cab, maybe extended cab.
> Two full size seats is the minimum requirement for a crummy.
> 
> Andy



That's cuz it was. Was. It was a gypo logger outfit and one of the rigging rats decided to go to town and walked up, took the crummy down the road at a high rate of speed, and did not make the hairpin curve. Crummy met up with an old growth sized stump and was totalled. The rigging rat hitchhiked on into town. The crummy even sported a blue tailgate...it was a genuine crummy and I was sad to hear of its end.

A year before, the crew ignored my directions of the way to go if the river came up and they barely made it across the river. They felt the crummy trying to float on down, but they made it. Even with all that stuff in the back, it wanted to go down the river. They'd tailgate the tourists and the tourists would get out of the way, that's why the front bumper was never replaced, it made it more scary to tourists. 
The gypo logger was having closure issues, he was fond of his crummy.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> He wasn't the best driver in the snow but he was the only one on the crew with a license to drive.



Now that sounds familiar.


----------



## slowp

3 hours getting a root canal. I did not feel the earthquake (3.6) that happened during. Ibuprofen usage will be up for a while.


----------



## northmanlogging

There was an earthquake??? pretty sure I didn't fall down so maybe it was a real one this time...


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> There was an earthquake??? pretty sure I didn't fall down so maybe it was a real one this time...



Yah. In Gig Harbor. I was just on the Tacoma side and in a dentist chair and nobody seemed to notice. A 3.6.


----------



## northmanlogging

3.6 is a little on the small side, I don't usually feel them until about 4.0, come to think of it the machine I was running did make some funny noises... for the Nisqualy quake I was stage diving... sorry...:rolleyes2:


----------



## Curlycherry1

50+ years of family owned firewood business and my brother fails to change, yet whines about it. He refuses to go to any kind of pallet operation for handling wood, yet complains up a storm how the business is wearing him out.


----------



## northmanlogging

12 hours in the brush yesterday... 6 of em falling, the rest pulling cable and stuff... I can barely tie my shoes today...


----------



## Samlock

northmanlogging said:


> 12 hours in the brush yesterday... 6 of em falling, the rest pulling cable and stuff... I can barely tie my shoes today...



Wear crocs!


----------



## slowp

Samlock said:


> Wear crocs!



Yes. No laces. You only have to make a decision if you want to use the heel strap or not. It can be positioned by using toes. They make solid toed Crocs for those wet days and holy ones for dry weather. They come in an assortment of colors.


----------



## northmanlogging

I'm thinking that's why the rubber corks are still selling, no need to tie em.


----------



## paccity

sitting on the deck , enjoying the last of summer.


----------



## slowp

paccity said:


> sitting on the deck , enjoying the last of summer.




Scandihoovian Candle??


----------



## twochains

paccity said:


> sitting on the deck , enjoying the last of summer.



That'a awesome Pac! I'm gonna have to cut a few of those for my buddies to take camping.


----------



## slowp

Flood Watch in September?

_Flood Watch in effect from Thursday afternoon through Friday
afternoon... 

The National Weather Service in Seattle has issued a

* Flood Watch for much of western Washington... including the
following counties... Grays Harbor... Clallam... island... 
Jefferson... San Juan... Skagit... Whatcom... King... Kitsap... 
Lewis... Mason... Pierce... Snohomish... and Thurston.

* From Thursday afternoon through Friday afternoon

* significant rainfall is anticipated Thursday afternoon through
Friday... with the heaviest rainfall expected from the olympic
range eastward. Potentially 1 to 2 inches of rain... with local
amounts up to 4 inches in the Cascades... could fall during this
period. In addition... thunderstorms on Thursday could produce
rain rates of an inch in one hour or less.

* The potentially excessive rainfall could lead to Urban and Small
Stream flooding. A short period of intense rainfall on Thursday
could cause flash flooding and overwhelm storm drains... leading
to flooded roads. Mud or rock slides are also possible in steep
mountainous terrain. Expect significant rises on area rivers but
flooding is unlikely.

Precautionary/preparedness actions... 

A Flood Watch means conditions are favorable for flooding but
flooding is not imminent or occurring. Monitor the latest
forecasts from the National Weather Service and be ready to act
quickly if flooding is observed or a warning is issued._


----------



## northmanlogging

well good thing I'm taking the weekend off and heading to the peninsula...


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> well good thing I'm taking the weekend off and heading to the peninsula...



It may be drier on the other side of the Olympics? Probly not.


----------



## Gologit

Thanks for sending us a little of your rain. We got an inch and a half in 24 hours on Labor Day and we were sure glad to see it.

Now we're back to dry and temps in the 80s.


----------



## Trx250r180

slowp said:


> It may be drier on the other side of the Olympics? Probly not.



only scattered sprinkles last couple days here ,enough to water the lawn some


----------



## Joe46

Yup, woke up to lightning, thunder and heavy rain. It's calmed down to just a light sprinkle at the moment.


----------



## slowp

A sucker hole has appeared here.


----------



## mdavlee

It was raining and storming this morning when we got to work. Didn't get completely soaked through. Now the sun is popping out.


----------



## slowp

So much for the tires provide protection theory.

_Tenino motorcyclist hit by lightning on I-5 in Chehalis

( CHEHALIS ) - A Tenino man riding a motorcycle on I-5 in Chehalis was injured after he was struck by lightning. Witnesses behind him watched it happen. The Chehalis Fire Department says the rider managed to pull off I-5. First responders found him at the AM/PM at Southwest Interstate Avenue. The rider was treated for burns to his head, after being hit in the helmet. The man was alert. He was taken to Providence-Centralia Hospital. It happened this morning during a powerful thunder storm system that passed through the area. More thunder showers remain in the forecast today._


----------



## paccity

slowp said:


> So much for the tires provide protection theory.
> 
> _Tenino motorcyclist hit by lightning on I-5 in Chehalis
> 
> ( CHEHALIS ) - A Tenino man riding a motorcycle on I-5 in Chehalis was injured after he was struck by lightning. Witnesses behind him watched it happen. The Chehalis Fire Department says the rider managed to pull off I-5. First responders found him at the AM/PM at Southwest Interstate Avenue. The rider was treated for burns to his head, after being hit in the helmet. The man was alert. He was taken to Providence-Centralia Hospital. It happened this morning during a powerful thunder storm system that passed through the area. More thunder showers remain in the forecast today._



it's not the rubber, it's the Faraday cage that saves you. for you'all that did not know.


----------



## hammerlogging

After shameful years of battling rolled out boots, whcih I have discussed more than once on here, i removed the shims, superfeet, insoles , loosened the laces, and any other bs attempt I made to fix the problem, and it seems the problem has corrected itself.

BLAH!

paccity, the grammar police are on you for that one. though's. jeesh.


----------



## Gologit

hammerlogging said:


> paccity, the grammar police are on you for that one. though's. jeesh.



Maybe. But did you remember that he's the one who coined the phrase "slopping back cut"? C'mon now...we can cut a guy some slack because of creating a classic like that.


----------



## paccity

grammar? i is just a ignorant speller .


----------



## Gologit

*Uh, nobody called you?*

As in...only five trucks show up for the first round when you're expecting 10.

As in... ten trucks show up and you're only expecting five.

As in...the fuel wagon is empty and you didn't bring fuel with you because the delivery truck was supposed to be there Sunday.

As in...all the big fir goes to a new mill and you've already sent the entire first round to the old mill.

As in...the gate locks have been changed from key to combination.

As in...the big meeting for this morning was changed to next week.

As in...the culvert that should have been replaced over the weekend is now scheduled for replacement today.

As in...you'll need to find a different haul road for a day or two.

As in...there aren't any other haul roads.

As in...the 7-11 is out of Donettos

As in...well, you get the idea. Since this is the new whining thread I thought I'd get that off my chest. I feel better now.


----------



## slowp

You mean you don't have one of the universal keys for the gates? Like bolt cutters or a cutting torch? The ones around here are getting too hefty to just hook up to the pickup and yank out.


----------



## paccity

cordless dremell work good too.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> You mean you don't have one of the universal keys for the gates? Like bolt cutters or a cutting torch? The ones around here are getting too hefty to just hook up to the pickup and yank out.



Sssshhhhh! When that happens we blame it on the deer hunters.


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> cordless dremell work good too.



Noted.


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Noted.



i know about using one from some folks that are not the land owners putting there own locks on them.:msp_mad: or super gluing the damn things and your on the non home side of the gate.:msp_mad::msp_mad:


----------



## RandyMac

hot here, hit 80


----------



## mdavlee

RandyMac said:


> hot here, hit 80



I wish it was 80 here today. 101 when we left work.


----------



## RandyMac

mdavlee said:


> I wish it was 80 here today. 101 when we left work.



been running mid 60s mostly.


----------



## mdavlee

That would be awesome. I wish I could come up with a job on the coast out there.


----------



## twochains

mdavlee said:


> I wish it was 80 here today. 101 when we left work.



101* here also...bank said 104*, all I know is my skin smells like is been on a grill


----------



## Trx250r180

67 here ,misribly warm today ,can't wait till after 6-7 when it cools off some


----------



## twochains

Trx250r180 said:


> 67 here ,misribly warm today ,can't wait till after 6-7 when it cools off some



Hey Brian, thanks for discussing 2t jetting with me...Colt went 1/1 this weekend! He was really happy!


----------



## Trx250r180

twochains said:


> Hey Brian, thanks for discussing 2t jetting with me...Colt went 1/1 this weekend! He was really happy!



did you get the bottom end dialed in ? Great job on the 1/1 ,bet the trophies are piling up :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## OlympicYJ

Stupid group labs with bad instructions, the wrong labels on the groups data, soil calcs, and excel all adds up to a BS afternoon. Me and a friend figured we'd be ready to axe murder by this week... we were right; just didn't realize it would be this soon. And the fun isn't over yet. Several more hours of this bull pucky. How's y'alls day going? Oh and its hot out...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## paccity

well did a job with 15 incense cedars ranging from 20 too 30" diameter. nice and strait, good little logs. had them bucked to 12' left the job that afternoon and come back the next morn to load them up. well get a call from the property owner telling me that the renters had bucked most of my logs up in to firewood. " crackheads" . lost 3/4's of the wood . this is all i got out of it. and a big crotch that's in the front of the trailer under the bucket.




some peoples kids.


----------



## slowp

:msp_ohmy::bang:


----------



## northmanlogging

dude thats ####ed...


----------



## Samlock

One misty morning, cutting timber, I met by change a tame fox. The animal came right out of the bush and approached without any hesitation - just like a friendly dog, except no wagging it's tail and ears high. I've heard stories of fearless fox, but never seen one before, nor have I ever known anyone in person who has. The fox's fur was clean, it wasn't obviously starved and it wasn't limping, a sound healthy animal, just very friendly. It seemed to me the fox wanted to have a pat. I didn't touch it however, I have no rabies vaccination. It hovered around my feet until I had to banish it. It came back though, and I had to throw a stick at it before it cleared out.

I've been asking local people about the tame fox, but nobody knows anything about it. It's hard to believe that none has ran across it, because it was so overly attracted to a human. I had no camera with me, no pics. I was alone too Of course, afterwards I realized now I do have a camera on my new cell phone, but it didn't come to me at the time. I know what I saw, and it's just that makes me wonder. I'm getting a bit confused what I should be thinking about the case. If it only had been a pink elephant playing "The Saints", this would've been an easy call: Another flipped out logger. But a tame fox?

Seriously guys.


----------



## slowp

A Friendly Fox? Not odd. Those of us who were timber sale administrators were known to talk and mumble to ourselves, and be grumpy in the office.
It comes with the territory.


----------



## madhatte

I had a fox living in or near my yard for a couple of years. It got used to me to the point where it wouldn't run off as long as I gave it a few feet of room and didn't make any sudden movements. I haven't seen it in a couple of years. Also, I've had many days where a crow or raven followed me around all day, chattering and making a racket, even when I ended up far from where I first saw it, so it wasn't protecting a nest. I think the critters just like messing with us sometimes.


----------



## twochains

My Dad used to go up to Alaska and fish...there were silver foxes up there that would hang out all the time with the fishermen.

A weird fox experience happened one morning at the sawmill I worked at. 

Me and my tail man would always get to work and hour er so early everyday. Down in the far end of the log yard there was a couple of cull bundles with johnson grass all grown around them. We heard a chatter and looked down that direction right as a white cat jumped up on to the bundle. The cat looked all around at the ground and then jumped back off into the tall grass. Right behind the cat (3) grey foxes jumped up onto the bundle. Then all at once they jumped off in the direction the cat went.

Now I don't know if you all know that there is a split between Red foxes and Grey foxes...Reds are in the Canine family while oddly enough Grey's are in the Feline family. With that being said...wonder what the foxes were chasing the cat for??? Food or lovin'? Definitely odd to say the least.

Fennec desert foxes are widely sold as pets...they are pretty neat animals. When I was into exotics really heavy, I always wanted some.


----------



## lfnh

Hey TC, interesting stuff on the Red/Grey fox. mazing what ya learn here.


----------



## Metals406

My old man ate lunch with a coyote one day back In the 70's. He ran the 'Cow Camp' -- a 2,000 acre section of a larger ranch. He was out riding fence and had stopped to eat lunch. He was sitting on an old Larch log. He was chowing down when he looked over, and here comes a yote right down the log at him. The yote stopped a couple feet away and sat down. Dad gave him some sammich and some other vittles. When they were done eating they went their separate ways. Critters act different out in the sticks. Most don't know enough to fear humans.


----------



## 1270d

You ever tree a grey while running coons TC? I've heard of it happening when I used to run. Never had a personal experience though


----------



## Rounder

Looks like the site actually works again.

Anybody else getting ####ed by the shutdown? What a ####ing sh!t show. All us saws jammed in our one state sale, then it's layoff time. Awesome. 

Should be damn near snowed out of our fed sales by the time our "representatives" in D.C. get their #### together.

Hope you all are well - Sam


----------



## slowp

Rounder said:


> Looks like the site actually works again.
> 
> Anybody else getting ####ed by the shutdown? What a ####ing sh!t show. All us saws jammed in our one state sale, then it's layoff time. Awesome.
> 
> Should be damn near snowed out of our fed sales by the time our "representatives" in D.C. get their #### together.
> 
> Hope you all are well - Sam



I heard about it yesterday. Pretty sucky. There was a helicopter logging here and they had to shut down. In fact, I think they moved in another helicopter to ramp things up on Monday, just in time for the shut down. Snow will hit, and then it is a wait until owl season is over--July. 

The bough cutting contracts were also shut off. There was a lot of activity around the mushroom buyers tents so those people are picking and probably will continue to pick after their permits expire.


----------



## Rounder

That's kind of the bummer here too....The mill brought in three more yarders to try and wrap things before the snow flies and then they get shut down. Lot of money down the can.


----------



## paccity

Rounder said:


> Looks like the site actually works again.
> 
> Anybody else getting ####ed by the shutdown? What a ####ing sh!t show. All us saws jammed in our one state sale, then it's layoff time. Awesome.
> 
> Should be damn near snowed out of our fed sales by the time our "representatives" in D.C. get their #### together.
> 
> Hope you all are well - Sam



bummer. thank goodness for private land. got to take some around the out buildings at the commune in the morn.


----------



## northmanlogging

I'm curious as to how long until the mills are starving for wood and up the price on domestic sales?

Have to wait and see I guess. From all accounts its not doing so bad out here for timber prices anyway, but with the feds shutting down it does leave a not so small hole to fill.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> I'm curious as to how long until the mills are starving for wood and up the price on domestic sales?
> 
> Have to wait and see I guess. From all accounts its not doing so bad out here for timber prices anyway, but with the feds shutting down it does leave a not so small hole to fill.



It won't make much difference where I am. We take very little timber from government sales any more. Some of the thinning sales produce a few saw logs but they're generally low quality, get culled heavily, and they feed the chipper with what's left. Most of the FS sales are bug kill or burn salvage but not nearly enough of either one to count on as a dependable source.

We've had a long season this year and most of the mill decks are high-stacked and running out of room.


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> I'm curious as to how long until the mills are starving for wood and up the price on domestic sales?
> 
> Have to wait and see I guess. From all accounts its not doing so bad out here for timber prices anyway, but with the feds shutting down it does leave a not so small hole to fill.



I am wondering the same about boughs. I have some cedar trees, but I have no idea what the buyers want. If I see the Boughs Wanted sign up, I'll stop.


----------



## northmanlogging

Hemlock export went up again, not sure about Doug fir... I don't usually send to a domestic mill... so I'll have to make some calls, DNR is still cutting on good ground though so maybe nothing will happen?


----------



## OlympicYJ

The problem right now is domestic lumber prices are low and the domestic mills have to compete with the export market for the smaller private wood. Larger wood from state and federal ground is competed with the plywood and pole guys. Domestic mills are still in a rough spot but with B.C. backing off their annual cut due to the beetle kill wood being too far degraded the prices should come up within the next few years.

As far as descriptions go; sever abdominal pain and a trip to the ER resulted in losing my appendix last night. Feeling better and now have three holes in my midsection healing up. Pretty bad timing with all the crap I had/have for school this week but I have a nice big extension on my test that's tomorrow so I'm kind of free for the rest of the week. Hoping I can make it to one class tomorrow that I have to rely on other people for notes in. Otherwise Thurs I may make it but Friday no classes and start of Thanksgiving break.

Wes


----------



## Gologit

OlympicYJ said:


> The problem right now is domestic lumber prices are low and the domestic mills have to compete with the export market for the smaller private wood. Larger wood from state and federal ground is competed with the plywood and pole guys. Domestic mills are still in a rough spot but with B.C. backing off their annual cut due to the beetle kill wood being too far degraded the prices should come up within the next few years.
> 
> As far as descriptions go; sever abdominal pain and a trip to the ER resulted in losing my appendix last night. Feeling better and now have three holes in my midsection healing up. Pretty bad timing with all the crap I had/have for school this week but I have a nice big extension on my test that's tomorrow so I'm kind of free for the rest of the week. Hoping I can make it to one class tomorrow that I have to rely on other people for notes in. Otherwise Thurs I may make it but Friday no classes and start of Thanksgiving break.
> 
> Wes




Be nice to the nurses...they're the ones who run the place. Get well, get after it.


----------



## slowp

OlympicYJ said:


> As far as descriptions go; sever abdominal pain and a trip to the ER resulted in losing my appendix last night. Feeling better and now have three holes in my midsection healing up. Pretty bad timing with all the crap I had/have for school this week but I have a nice big extension on my test that's tomorrow so I'm kind of free for the rest of the week. Hoping I can make it to one class tomorrow that I have to rely on other people for notes in. Otherwise Thurs I may make it but Friday no classes and start of Thanksgiving break.
> 
> Wes


 
Be glad. A guy I worked with had this appendix story. He was working for the Forest Service as a fire lookout. He tried to get the day off so he could watch the World Series on TV, but they sent him up to work. He got abdominal pains and called to get taken in to the doctor. The Fire guy sent up the roughest riding truck they had, because he thought the guy was faking. He wasn't and had an appendectomy, after a painful ride in. I guess the fire guy was extremely apologetic.


----------



## hammerlogging

twochains said:


> Now I don't know if you all know that there is a split between Red foxes and Grey foxes...Reds are in the Canine family while oddly enough Grey's are in the Feline family. .



No, they are both in the same order and family, just different genus and species. that was too weird a comment to not look up for myself.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Oh I was. I'm back home now. They didn't keep me very long! lol The girlfriend came up to help out where she could.


----------



## slowp

I just saw that we have a flood watch. Bah!


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> I just saw that we have a flood watch. Bah!



That's no good. Good thing you have the high ground.

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> That's no good. Good thing you have the high ground.
> 
> Sent using two cans and a string.


 
Yes. This details it better. 

http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/
Sounds like you will get cold.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Yes. This details it better.
> 
> http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/
> Sounds like you will get cold.



We're supposed to get arctic here for a few. Bleck

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## slowp

Doesn't seem that windy but I guess there are some good gusts. The hot tub cover flew by the window. I ran out and got it back on putting some additonal weight on it and noticed that some of the tin roofing on the wood pile also was gone. Went out and put it back in place. Don't wear your crocs to work in mud. Gravity will get you and a change of clothes and some warshing off was needed.


----------



## Metals406

The weather guessers are now saying below zero temps fir us. Could be worse I guess -- the east side of mt is supposed to be like -30 without wind chill.

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## slowp

The hydrowhatever prediction has bumped up to "moderate" flooding. We're in a flood warning. I just ran in, filled up with gas and got the mail. The swamps are filling up.


----------



## Metals406

It's been moisting here all day. . . Soon to switch to ice and snow as the Canuckistan air invades.

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## slowp

The hydro thing now has a lower and later crest for the river. I-90 Snoqualmie Pass is closed because of.......
FALLING TREES.

Hmmmmph.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> The hydro thing now has a lower and later crest for the river. I-90 Snoqualmie Pass is closed because of.......
> FALLING TREES.
> 
> Hmmmmph.



I've always though they should trim back more on Snoqualmie fir that very reason. But, too many hugger types would complain about it.

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## northmanlogging

sorry I was bored...


----------



## paccity

well crap...................that is all.


----------



## Metals406

Anyone else in the arctic chill box for the next couple weeks? :-(

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## paccity

going to get in the teens maybe some flakes by the end of the week.


----------



## madhatte

Just found this... kind of an old pic, but it's hanging up in my office. Guess somebody mistook me for a tree.


----------



## northmanlogging

its 9 degrees outside, the skidder is broke, I'm regretting last night... the only thing planned for today was playing groundy while pulling over a bunch of danger cotton woods...


Nothing like looking up for 6 hours while your brain is screaming *why don't you just kill me now*, and your liver is accusing you of genocide...


----------



## twochains

madhatte said:


> Just found this... kind of an old pic, but it's hanging up in my office. Guess somebody mistook me for a tree.



What are you all doing there? Fixing to teleport? LOL! No really though, are you setting GPS and fixing to start marking rows? What is your DBH??? Pftt!!


----------



## twochains

northmanlogging said:


> its 9 degrees outside, the skidder is broke, I'm regretting last night... the only thing planned for today was playing groundy while pulling over a bunch of danger cotton woods...
> 
> 
> Nothing like looking up for 6 hours while your brain is screaming *why don't you just kill me now*, and your liver is accusing you of genocide...



So...are you at the house hugging the porcelain throne?? LULLZ! That'll learn ya to stay out drinking on a work night! LOL!


----------



## Metals406

-16 here this morning. I was up till 4a.m. keeping the stove fed.

No drinking here though, me no likey hangunders.

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> -16 here this morning. I was up till 4a.m. keeping the stove fed.
> 
> No drinking here though, me no likey hangunders.
> 
> Sent using two cans and a string.


tried to do some tinkering in the shop lastnite but got tired of listening to the the jet roaring . need to insulate the shop better and put a wood stove in it.


----------



## northmanlogging

ended up going to woods and getting a culvert or two to cross some squishy parts... 

I havn't made any of that kind of contribution the gods of American Standard, Gerber or Kohler in many years... but only through sheer will power and the the ability to uh... choke down some really bad cooking.

Got some vid of the Stilly river icing up, never seen that in the 20 plus years I've lived out here.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> tried to do some tinkering in the shop lastnite but got tired of listening to the the jet roaring . need to insulate the shop better and put a wood stove in it.



I've been studying rocket mass stoves again. Super efficient, super cheap, easy to build. You should make one for your shop Fraze!

Sent from my Bic RaZor


----------



## slowp

Cruising Scotch or Scott's Broom?

It is 12 outside this morning.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Cruising Scotch or Scott's Broom?
> 
> It is 12 outside this morning.



I think it's "now where the hell did we leave the pickup?" Notice they're all facing away from the road?

It's a balmy 23 here. The view from the back porch...


----------



## twochains

Well I just had to make the call to my boss....I need a ride to the big city! LOL! He was going this evening anyway...one of the farm stores is have a generator and compressor sale tonight from 6 to 8! With 3 inches of sleet sitting on top of ice and 10 inches of snow combined with bald tires...I can't even get to the gate! LOL! Glad I feel comfortable enough to ask the boss for some help!


----------



## slowp

Whine. My hair is really dry from the dry, cold weather. Must use conditioner!


----------



## twochains

slowp said:


> Whine. My hair is really dry from the dry, cold weather. Must use conditioner!


I need something for my goat tee...it's turned into 5 inch dred locks...I'm gonna trim it when it is mid chest


----------



## paccity

8 right know . at least the wind is not blowing. ignore the temp on the flag , it's wrong.


----------



## Metals406

It warmed up to 8° here too. . . I don't know what to do with myself. Thought about jogging outside in shorts, barefoot. ;-)


----------



## twochains

Metals406 said:


> It warmed up to 8° here too. . . I don't know what to do with myself. Though about jogging outside in shorts, barefoot. ;-)



That's what I tell the ol'lady when she thinks it's less than warm in the house. I'm so freakin' bored...it's not even fun anymore to piss her off with my general presence!


----------



## northmanlogging

20 deg, this morning. Got to spend the day falling snags... went well enough, Got a couple of tops that are hung up real high I'll have to hide in the missus and poke em with a long stick... or pick a nice fatty and send her though the hole mess and see what happens. 

This is yet another patch some other jerk high graded about 4 years ago and made a mess out of all the leave trees.


----------



## treeslayer2003

32 here with sleet and freezing rain.......fun. Clint, I think we getting whats left of what you got.


----------



## twochains

Yuk! Ours hasn't seen any temps above 20*...gonna be here a bit.


----------



## treeslayer2003

oh, it gonna be a sloppy mess here. I hope we don't get ice tonight, trees starting to get a glaze.


----------



## slowp

24 for our high. I brought home another log, in stove lengths but it was not easy. The logs came down in a mudslide, so are dirty. That with being frozen, made for cutting so bad I stopped to make sure the chain was not on backwards. It was not, but the chain looked like I'd cut some rocks. I stopped and filed it but it didn't help much.

It is nice, easy to get to Doug-fir. I will return.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> 24 for our high. I brought home another log, in stove lengths but it was not easy. The logs came down in a mudslide, so are dirty. That with being frozen, made for cutting so bad I stopped to make sure the chain was not on backwards. It was not, but the chain looked like I'd cut some rocks. I stopped and filed it but it didn't help much.
> 
> It is nice, easy to get to Doug-fir. I will return.





You could take the bar off of Ol' Sparkless and put it and your racing chain on the Barbie saw.


----------



## twochains

I don't see that happening Bob!


----------



## Gologit

twochains said:


> I don't see that happening Bob!




You're right. She'll save that racing chain for the next GTG so she can whip everybody. Again.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> You're right. She'll save that racing chain for the next GTG so she can whip everybody. Again.


 
Shhhh. That's secrit stuff.


----------



## northmanlogging

My tree topper duder took out the power to 3-4 houses for me, despite all my arm waving and screaming he faced it right for the lines...


----------



## 1270d

[qShips."northmanlogging, post: 4594215, member: 76731"]My tree topper duder took out the power to 3-4 houses for me, despite all my arm waving and screaming he faced it right for the lines...[/quote]

Whoops. He was a subcontractor of course...


----------



## Gologit

What did your topper have to say for himself?


----------



## northmanlogging

yep a sub,

Said he was sorry... I'm still a little on the peeved side


----------



## redprospector

northmanlogging said:


> yep a sub,
> 
> *Said he was sorry...* I'm still a little on the peeved side


 
A proper response would have been; Yep, I can see that. Now, what are we going to do about the power lines?

Andy


----------



## northmanlogging

You have really good ears...


----------



## redprospector

northmanlogging said:


> You have really good ears...


 
Hahaha. No, I can't hear squat.
Could it be that smart asses think alike? 

Andy


----------



## northmanlogging

you calling me a smart ass?


----------



## redprospector

northmanlogging said:


> you calling me a smart ass?


 Are you denying the evidence? 

Andy


----------



## northmanlogging

Well no...

I just wanted to be clear.


----------



## paccity

smart ass is as smart ass does.


----------



## redprospector

paccity said:


> smart ass is as smart ass does.


 
Yeah, I know.
That's kept me in trouble all of my life. 

Andy


----------



## redprospector

northmanlogging said:


> Well no...
> 
> I just wanted to be clear.


 
Well alright then.

Andy


----------



## Gologit

I always blame everything on the wind. Boss... "Wind get ya?" ....walking to the truck


redprospector said:


> Yeah, I know.
> That's kept me in trouble all of my life.
> 
> Andy


 Yup.


----------



## slowp

Ooops.

http://www.theolympian.com/2013/12/26/2902622/live-power-lines-reported-down.html


----------



## SliverPicker

I'm starting a hand falling job in a few days. 12" stumps or less (uphill side) in 29" of snow.

Imagine the great physical shape I will be in after 30 acres of this!

When the mind is weak the body will suffer.


----------



## nk14zp

mile9socounty said:


> I have a very pathetic man cold right now. Monday I felt the crude crawling up my back and sapping my energy. Foreman had me pulled off the hillside due to puking. The fever set in about 1700 on monday, got so warm I actually had to sit on the back porch for a few hours and cool off. Went to bed, slept, slept, slept some more. I still feel drained. Hell I ran out of chew monday night. Didnt get a new can until this morning. Im going to try and work, but we will see.


 

Real chew comes in a pouch.


----------



## Metals406

SliverPicker said:


> I'm starting a hand falling job in a few days. 12" stumps or less (uphill side) in 29" of snow.
> 
> Imagine the great physical shape I will be in after 30 acres of this!
> 
> When the mind is weak the body will suffer.



Don't forget your shovel!


----------



## SliverPicker

I've got the sharpest grain scoop in town!


----------



## northmanlogging

6 hours, 4 tanks of saw gas(2.5 in the 066, and 1.5 in the 461) one broken choker, every wedge I have with me+2, both jacks, 3 gallons of diesel, and at least 10 pounds lost.= 4 logs totaling 115' in length or so, the butt measured 52" ([email protected]' and [email protected] 34')

Spruce... limbey bastards but worth it in the end.


----------



## madhatte

One of my nemeses just retired, and, due to the ongoing hiring freeze, will likely not be replaced. It will be interesting to see how my workgroup adapts to the change in work load.


----------



## slowp

Washing machine! I saw a puddle of water on the floor after it was done with a load. A short word for excrement was uttered. I yanked out the dryer because that was where it looked like the water was. I should mention that the laundry is in a small hall like place with very little room to maneuver. Another expletive when I realized I'd have to fight the lint hose back on. That's a very hard thing to attach. Not much water was there. I felt around the drain, it was dry, and dusty. The hoses were dry. I opened the washer door and it looked like I closed the door on a sock so water leaked out that way--I hope. I rassled the dryer back in after contorting to hook up the exhaust. Then vacuumed a bit and shoved the million ton washing machine back in place. I noticed a hose had been kinked and looked like it was about to fail so ordered new expensive hoses from Sears. They seem overpriced. My left hand is bloodied and cut from the dry exhaust hose work....not a nice morning.

The delivery guy for my washing machine said it had concrete in the bottom to help it stay in one place. It feels like that is true.

Prior to this I was in a very good mood and had found the sheet music for a tune I want to play on an internet site. Such is life.


----------



## SliverPicker

I just checked my bank balance online. There is an ATM Reversal fee of $8.11 on there. Problem is I haven't used an ATM in well over 10 years. 2nd problem my account balance is over $1000 light. This doesn't sound good. Bank's closed can't get this figured out. 

slow, you didn't charge those overpriced hoses on my account did you? Maybe that's where the G note went?


----------



## Metals406

Ewww. . . Sounds like you got nailed. There's a huge amount of card hacking going on across the country. 

Just ordered my wife a 'scan proof' wallet for her purse last week.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Washing machine! I saw a puddle of water on the floor after it was done with a load. A short word for excrement was uttered. I yanked out the dryer because that was where it looked like the water was. I should mention that the laundry is in a small hall like place with very little room to maneuver. Another expletive when I realized I'd have to fight the lint hose back on. That's a very hard thing to attach. Not much water was there. I felt around the drain, it was dry, and dusty. The hoses were dry. I opened the washer door and it looked like I closed the door on a sock so water leaked out that way--I hope. I rassled the dryer back in after contorting to hook up the exhaust. Then vacuumed a bit and shoved the million ton washing machine back in place. I noticed a hose had been kinked and looked like it was about to fail so ordered new expensive hoses from Sears. They seem overpriced. My left hand is bloodied and cut from the dry exhaust hose work....not a nice morning.
> 
> The delivery guy for my washing machine said it had concrete in the bottom to help it stay in one place. It feels like that is true.
> 
> Prior to this I was in a very good mood and had found the sheet music for a tune I want to play on an internet site. Such is life.



And this is how you know you're still alive!


----------



## SliverPicker

Metals406 said:


> Ewww. . . Sounds like you got nailed. There's a huge amount of card hacking going on across the country.
> 
> Just ordered my wife a 'scan proof' wallet for her purse last week.



The "ATM" part is what has me confused. If they got money from an ATM they had to have had my PIN. Only the bank has that. I don't even know it. The PIN for my debit card is the one the bank issued when I got a replacement card a year ago. SO.... if money was taken from an ATM it would appear that the bank's computer was hacked. NOT good.

Anyway since I can't get to the bottom of this until tomorrow due to the bank being closed all I can do is twist in the wind until then. Maybe its all just a mistake of some sort.


----------



## KenJax Tree

I got an email from my bank last year saying a large amount had been taken out and i checked my account and $1200 was missing, so i called BofA and they said someone used my debit card # in Texas (i'm in Michigan) for diesel, luckily they immediately reimbursed my account pending an investigation and a few weeks later i got a letter saying i was clear. I have no idea how they even got the number. There are a lot of cockroaches out there.


Sent from my Autotune Carb


----------



## SliverPicker

Man, this sucks.


----------



## hammerlogging

madhatte said:


> One of my nemeses just retired, and, due to the ongoing hiring freeze, will likely not be replaced. It will be interesting to see how my workgroup adapts to the change in work load.



well good. consider them irreplaceable, or, not worth replacing. you'll find a way to balance the work load.


----------



## 1270d

Worked late tonight. As is typical, around 730 or 8 pm hydraulic oil pissing everywhere. Couple hours later I'm thawing out. Windy as all get out and way below zero. -20 maybe. That'll teach me to work late. Kudos for streamlight headlamps though.


----------



## SliverPicker

Turns out my missing cash, all $1059.21 of it, was spent at an Andorran ski resort on the French border and in an undisclosed location in West Virginia. I couldn't make this up! Hilarious.


----------



## treeslayer2003

thousands of power customers had their heat turned off by the power company because they had these energy saver thermostats.....wth? i'm sure glad my thermostat is my arm when I put wood in the stove. it was 10 today.


----------



## SliverPicker

Nothing better than tendrils of hydraulic oil blowing in the wind when its below zero. There isn't a single nice thing to be said about that.


----------



## 1270d

How's the now job going sliver?


----------



## SliverPicker

Haven't started yet. Politics. The landowner group in charge has decided to to put it out for a rebid. This should actually work in my favor.

How about you? Has it warmed up much?


----------



## 1270d

SliverPicker said:


> Haven't started yet. Politics. The landowner group in charge has decided to to put it out for a rebid. This should actually work in my favor.
> 
> How about you? Has it warmed up much?




Looks like you get a little more time to get your skidder all squared away.

It got above zero today, which is nice. I think it hit 2*. Supposed to be high 30's by the weekend, which is not nice.


----------



## slowp

Another overpass gets a dent. From Lewis County Sirens.

_CHEHALIS OVERPASS REPAIRS WILL CLOSE NORTHBOUND I-5
• A portion of northbound Interstate 5 at Chehalis will be closed overnight this weekend while repairs are made to the 13th Street bridge which was damaged by a too-tall load last week. Drivers will be re-routed using the on and off ramps between 10 p.m. and 5 a.m. on Friday and Saturday, according to the Washington State Department of Transportation. On the morning of Dec. 31, the driver of a Chehalis-based truck pulling a trailer carrying a log loader was cited after the loader struck a portion of the overpass snapping steel tension cables and knocking concrete onto the freeway, according to the Washington State Patrol. A state patrol spokespersons said the company was permitted for a load no taller than 14-feet 6-inches but inspectors subsequently measured the load at 14-feet 7-inches. Trooper Will Finn said the overpass measures at 15 feet. DOT says it has a vertical clearance of 14-feet 8-inches. The truck was escorted by front and rear pilot cars and the overhead detector about a mile to the south – which sets off both audible and visual alarms – was found to be operational, according to authorities. Truck restrictions on the overpass currently in place will be lifted after the weekend work, according to DOT. The bridge is 56 years old._


----------



## 1270d

The sign said clearance to the twelve foot line but them chickens was stacked to 13. 9.....


----------



## twochains

This happened in the next town over from me. All I can say is karma is biotch....

http://www.ktlo.com/Man-dies-from-fall-while-pursuing-man-he-had-shot/18153864


----------



## Jabuol

Waiting for daylight.


----------



## northmanlogging

Detonated a crazy leaning alder today,

It was roughly 100' tall which is crazy for alder, straight ish up for about 30' then hung a hard left towards the neighbors fence line, then straightend out a little bit before turning back towards a pile of leave trees. In all I think it covered 40' of ground and blocked the falling of a at least one load of good timber.

So the plan was to hand a swing line in it and a second line back to the missus and pull it as far away from the fence line as possible. Problem with that is there where no branches for the first 60', and it was leaning to hard to climb, I don't own one of them throw ball sets, but I do own a bow (that I haven't shot in at least a decade...)

Anyway tie some fishing line to an arrow and take careful aim... close my eyes and release... it worked!!! first try really... 2 hours later... and pulling 200' of 1/2 cable around everything is all set. wrapped a chain around the base for luck and fired up the saw.

Problems started as soon as I started the gun cut, didn't even get to full bar depth before she started sitting on it, managed to get some semblance of a face in her, but nothing as deep I would like to put in an alder. then I swing around to the back side, and start my usual coos bay, ****ing thing started making scary noises as soon as I put the offside angle cut in, didin't even bother with the front of the coos, just dogged in and went like Hel. made it maybe 2" into the back cut and she started to pop and sneeze, ran like a little girl, Could hear the poor missus redlining even over the saw Idling...


in all a 14" stump had roughly 10" of "hold" wood, the bastard chaired a bit even with the chain wrapped and the bit between the stump and the rest of the wood just shredded, spitting the core out at me...

It was a good day... my hands haven't shook like that since the last time I got shot at.


----------



## treeslayer2003

I know nuthin about alder, never even seen one. having said that,
what if ya made a shallow face and gutted the heart?
may be a dum ? like I said never even seen an alder.


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> I know nuthin about alder, never even seen one. having said that,
> what if ya made a shallow face and gutted the heart?
> may be a dum ? like I said never even seen an alder.


There was enough compression it was trying to pinch him out early in the face. He may have tried to bore it thru before a face -- but who knows? Hard to say without standing there.

Alder has a bad wrap for chairing.


----------



## slowp

Alder will chair more and faster on a cold day. That's my experience. We've had some chilly mornings. That might have been a factor, or not.


----------



## northmanlogging

hind sight being what it is and all, I could of bored the face, but I really don't think it would have done any good on this one, just too much crazy tension on it, the bit of a coos I did put in helped a little bit that side more or less stayed in one peice, the near side to some extent as well, the center is what did most of the shrapnel production.

To put this in some perspective most of the alder I've ever cut a guy (or gurl) would be lucky to get 50' of log out of, this one if I buck it right I should get near to 70' before the first branch, they may have a little sweep to em... 

It was frosty this morning, but this one tree was blocking two days of work for me...


----------



## slowp

Some kind of evil Bambi or Flower decimated my little cedar trees. They might still survive as a bit of green is still attached. I thought we had a truce! No mas. I'm done feeding them cedar. Rabbifravitzwoodii!


----------



## Jabuol

Cutting snags on a burn salvage sale. Driving two hours, packing in, and then getting blown out.


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> hind sight being what it is and all, I could of bored the face, but I really don't think it would have done any good on this one, just too much crazy tension on it, the bit of a coos I did put in helped a little bit that side more or less stayed in one peice, the near side to some extent as well, the center is what did most of the shrapnel production.
> 
> To put this in some perspective most of the alder I've ever cut a guy (or gurl) would be lucky to get 50' of log out of, this one if I buck it right I should get near to 70' before the first branch, they may have a little sweep to em...
> 
> It was frosty this morning, but this one tree was blocking two days of work for me...


 

I have had good luck just pushing over the alders with a machine if i think they are going to fall on something important ,16 inch or smaller should push over fairly easy with your skidder blade ,nice thing about their shallow roots i guess ,a few bumps with something semi heavy they uproot


----------



## northmanlogging

me thinks you overestimate the missus... the winch could tear a tank in half, the blade has to rely on traction... poor traction...


Speaking of which, poked a hole in another tire today, wait it was the same tire, and the same spot as last time...


----------



## Metals406

Sucks to poke holes.


----------



## madhatte

Just a cursory whine for me today: not a fan of wetland delineation. PITA, y'all.


----------



## treeslayer2003

madhatte said:


> Just a cursory whine for me today: not a fan of wetland delineation. PITA, y'all.


 get that almost every job here.....go thru a lot of blue flagging.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Well I should be seeing plenty of that this summer. Yuck! But I knew what I was setting myself up for lol Although I'm gonna have an HCP to learn not just the regular Forest Practices...


----------



## northmanlogging

oh is that what the blue tape is for?


----------



## northmanlogging

oh is that what the blue tape is for?


----------



## OlympicYJ

northmanlogging said:


> oh is that what the blue tape is for?



Blue ribbon is usually used by the DNR and the Feds, think feds use blue. Most private just uses pink to denote harvest boundaries. Usually the buffer goes around the wetland crap so you don't see different colors of ribbon along a boundary. However sometimes striped ribbon of some sort is used to mark Initiation Points of streams or other features that have to be treated differently. To come back to your question it all depends on the landowner. It's been a long time since I've done any layout so things could have changed or I'm just talking out my keester.


----------



## slowp

On FS land, blue is the unit boundary. They used to use yellow flagging for clearcut units, but since clearcutting kind of stopped here, there's a ton of yellow flagging in the warehouse.


----------



## northmanlogging

I think ya missed the joke... as in I thought the blue tape marked all the good timber, and thanks mister forester for pointing it out to me...


----------



## OlympicYJ

My "am I alive today?" side was showing yesterday so I must have lol Yeah might I add go Hawks! Disclaimer: I'm not the biggest football fan but I was yesterday lol


----------



## slowp

Not a real complaint. I am actually enjoying it, because I don't have to go anywhere tomorrow. The White Death is here. Not the usual heavy, gloppy stuff. Nope, this time it's like east of the mountains snow. Tiny, light flakes being blown about by the east wind we've had for two days. I believe some of the Oregon guys--PAcity and Spotted Owl may have a lot more of it in their backyards. 

I'd guess a couple inches so far. Stay tuned.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Not a real complaint. I am actually enjoying it, because I don't have to go anywhere tomorrow. The White Death is here. Not the usual heavy, gloppy stuff. Nope, this time it's like east of the mountains snow. Tiny, light flakes being blown about by the east wind we've had for two days. I believe some of the Oregon guys--PAcity and Spotted Owl may have a lot more of it in their backyards.
> 
> I'd guess a couple inches so far. Stay tuned.



Same here, lots of rain (we need it) and snow this weekend. Stocked up on groceries, the generator is gassed and ready, the used book shelf has been stocked, the firewood rack in the shop is full. Bring it!

The best thing is not having to go out in it if I don't want to.

Retirement is good, isn't it?


----------



## Metals406

Bob, did you go full on retard? . . Errr, I mean retired. ;-)


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Bob, did you go full on retard? . . Errr, I mean retired. ;-)



I think full retard might be a good description. I've wondered about that for years.

No, I'm pretty much done. No more production falling, too old and too slow and mostly too lazy. I give away more work than I take and it's nice to have that choice.
I still keep my hand in and I have a couple of little projects lined up for this Spring but nothing major. When a real juice job shows up...easy ground, good timber, short commute, and decent money...it's pretty hard to turn down.


----------



## paccity

foot and a half of snow now getting freezing rain. going to be fun.


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> foot and a half of snow now getting freezing rain. going to be fun.



Eight inches of rain here in the last 24 hours. That's not much for you folks up north but down here it's got us looking for PFDs. 

Day before yesterday the big news was our drought. Now the big news is flash flood warnings. Must be living in California.


----------



## slowp

Windy and just started snowing here. There's about an inch and a half on the ground from the last storm. Not to worry, The Used Dog can bust through it and The Grapple Cat has a trail cleared between the house and shop. 

Today stayed just below freezing.


----------



## DavdH

6" rain Gage is past full since Thur afternoon, most of it today (Sat). It's still raining hard. it has really warmed up. now 52*, so snow level has really gone up, we had snow just above us Fri. (2000'). The first 2" just soaked in now it is beginning to puddle and run off a little. My vernal pond is still dry so no ducks or geese have moved in yet.


----------



## slowp

OK, OK, I'll bring that jet stream back up where it belongs.

I see they have upped out predicted snowfall amount to 3 to 5 inches. It was at half an inch. Hope the National Guard is on alert to save us.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> OK, OK, I'll bring that jet stream back up where it belongs.
> 
> I see they have upped out predicted snowfall amount to 3 to 5 inches. It was at half an inch. Hope the National Guard is on alert to save us.



Maybe you could make a harness and hook TUD to one of your kayaks. They should glide on the snow.


----------



## slowp

The Weather Channel Drama Team has not appeared here, yet.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> The Weather Channel Drama Team has not appeared here, yet.



Not yet? I think The Used Dog hooked to the kayak and towing you through the snow would make a great human interest piece. You could get a parka, a flowing scarf, and one of those Elmer Fudd Hats with the flaps that fold down on three sides. You could be mushing to Morton for supplies.

Anybody got the phone number for KOMO?


----------



## bitzer

That's crazy. We are so far from rain here its not even funny. Going to be 12 below overnight sometime next week again. Was 25 below with the wind chill when I was working yesterday.


----------



## northmanlogging

clear calm and 15deg here... although some clouds are looking a little ominous... first time in a month I was able to knock some of the mud off the missus, she's been a dirty dirty girl...


----------



## Cedarkerf

Trying to snow here but the wind wont let the flakes hit the ground lucky our power hasnt gone out yet amazing how flexible frozen Firs and Cedars are only a few in the neighborhood have snapped off


----------



## slowp

I have little snow drifts around here. The Used Dog returning from a yellow snow making trek.


----------



## northmanlogging

snowing now...


----------



## northmanlogging

snowing now...


----------



## OlympicYJ

Well we'll see if the loggers were plowing friday or sat. Should have about a foot of snow in the road. Looks to be about a 6 or 7 with a wing plowing the white stuff. Had a bunch of snow in the last week. Goin shooting tomorrow.


----------



## Metals406

My pipes are still messed up from this last cold snap. My sewer pipes even froze. That's what consistent -15 ~ -20 will do to a crappy ol trailer house.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Sorry to hear Nate. Yeah that's no bueno. They gotta be careful with the crapper pipes up North. get froze up you're using trash bags... and that dump run in the spring just aint fun! lol


----------



## madhatte

I still don't like wetland delineation. Just a reminder.


----------



## treeslayer2003

this landowner getting to me now.......I don't think he wants me to ever leave.


----------



## slowp

Sucker hole? Or no? That is the question.


----------



## paccity

sogg. that is all.


----------



## treeslayer2003

slowp said:


> Sucker hole? Or no? That is the question.


 idk if yer talkin to me but I will answer any way. he just keeps wanting more cut but it wouldn't be ethical to keep going down in size since it is a selection cut. sometimes it hard to balance out suiting the owner and what should be done as far as managing the stand.


----------



## Twindad

treeslayer2003 said:


> idk if yer talkin to me but I will answer any way. he just keeps wanting more cut but it wouldn't be ethical to keep going down in size since it is a selection cut. sometimes it hard to balance out suiting the owner and what should be done as far as managing the stand.



Hey treeslayer, that's refreshing to hear. 
It seems like sometimes loggers get a bad rap on certain jobs when really its the landowner pushing them beyond the original agreement.


----------



## slowp

A sucker hole is that sun break that appears in the midst of the rain. The suckers take off their rain gear, or go out without, not realizing that it is a temporary lull and the rain will start up again and there they are, out in it with no rain gear on. Hence, the question, "Is the rain done or are we in a sucker hole?"


----------



## northmanlogging

evidently it was a sucker hole... Did you get soaked?

I got blowed out yesterday, got maybe enough to make a load on the ground, but then lots of branches started aiming for my noggin, and the standing trees started stretching for the big line dance...


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> evidently it was a sucker hole... Did you get soaked?
> 
> I got blowed out yesterday, got maybe enough to make a load on the ground, but then lots of branches started aiming for my noggin, and the standing trees started stretching for the big line dance...


 
Nope. I put on my tin pants, water resistant boots, rubber duckie rain coat and hat and tried to do some burning. It was futile, but I spent yesterday afternoon trying until I felt cold and damp. The fire never got big enough to warm up by. The wind was blowing hard, and switching direction, but the trees sheltered us fairly good and we were out away from The Snag where we would not be clobbered. The Used Dog was whining--we'd lost his tennis ball in the brush. Then it was time to pull up the chair in front of the woodstove and warm up. Today looks similar. Gloppy white stuff just made an attempt to accumulate here at 1000 feet elevation.


----------



## rwoods

Nothing about the weather, but yesterday I was awaken from my nap by some TV show called Redwood Kings. Apparently it is a show about some WC twins who reclaim fallen redwoods and make funky tree-houses and art objects. Anyway on this particular show they scouted out and recovered a nice chunk of a redwood that RandyMac must have left. I say chunk as it was 12' across and not much longer. It didn't look real big until they rolled it on the lowboy. They estimated it to be at least 3500 years old. They cut a slab off of it to make a time line display for a museum. I fell back to sleep before they got to the finished product. One day, I hope to make it out west and see some of these trees. No fears, Slowp, I won't be moving up your way.  Ron


----------



## slowp

Interesting weather reports here. We have a Winter Storm Warning, a Winter Storm Watch and a Flood Watch. The little pictures for the reading impaired now have the word Heavy inserted before rain. I don't know if I've seen that before. Maybe I ought to try burning again today?  Oh, the ground has a light coat of white glop on it.


----------



## Nuzzy

Apparently the wind decided a section of our fence looked better on the ground.


----------



## slowp

No wind here, unless I slept through it.


----------



## Nuzzy

Lot of rot in that fence. I'd guess the more sustained gusts the other day got it right up to it's breaking point.


----------



## Trx250r180

Nuzzy said:


> Lot of rot in that fence. I'd guess the more sustained gusts the other day got it right up to it's breaking point.




all the reason to start milling now


----------



## Cedarkerf

We got some snow more on the hills took the new truck out tho. It rained and rained and then snowed


----------



## Cedarkerf

Walkin thru downtown Enumclaw this mornin saw some cool logging art for $200 bucks


----------



## Gologit

Cedarkerf said:


> We got some snow more on the hills took the new truck out tho. It rained and rained and then snowed
> 
> View attachment 334154
> View attachment 334155
> View attachment 334156


 Nice rig. Now you can go to Madsens and have room to haul all your "accessories".


----------



## Cedarkerf

Gologit said:


> Nice rig. Now you can go to Madsens and have room to haul all your "accessories".


A guy can never have too many saw accesories


----------



## 2dogs

Yeah. The weather. Last week it was 66 degrees at 6:30 at night. And humid. The days are very sunny. Al Gore screwed up the planet so it doesn't rain anymore and I have to turn on the AC for awhile before going to bed. Bummer, eh?


----------



## slowp

Are you Californians figuring out how to steal our water yet? I believe we are at normal snowpack or soon will be. 

Brian & Janie, now you can go for a tent TRAILER or maybe an Airstream? Or something with adequate ventilation? Except I think the latter would only be a house at Astoria.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Yeah. The weather. Last week it was 66 degrees at 6:30 at night. And humid. The days are very sunny. Al Gore screwed up the planet so it doesn't rain anymore and I have to turn on the AC for awhile before going to bed. Bummer, eh?



Have you reduced your water consumption 20% re Gov Moonbeam?


----------



## 2dogs

slowp said:


> Are you Californians figuring out how to steal our water yet? I believe we are at normal snowpack or soon will be.
> 
> Brian & Janie, now you can go for a tent TRAILER or maybe an Airstream? Or something with adequate ventilation? Except I think the latter would only be a house at Astoria.


The week before last in our local paper an expert laid out two proposals to help the water situation. (They may not be his original ideas. IDK.) One was to place "straws", large pipes, in the ocean at river mouths to draw in the fresh water discharged by the river and then pump it into the water system. The second proposal is to create a water system beginning in Oregon (or maybe Warshington, I don't remember) that consists of a massive under ground system of pipes connecting to each river. That "wasted" water would be pumped down here to Cali. Yeah!


----------



## 2dogs

Gologit said:


> Have you reduced your water consumption 20% re Gov Moonbeam?


Yeah. I don't have much else I can do or not do. Stop showering? Don't wash clothes? I've already stopped watering the sidewalk.


----------



## Metals406

2dogs said:


> Yeah. I don't have much else I can do or not do. Stop showering? Don't wash clothes? I've already stopped watering the sidewalk.



Well now your sidewalk is going to dry up and die.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> The second proposal is to create a water system beginning in Oregon (or maybe Warshington, I don't remember) that consists of a massive under ground system of pipes connecting to each river. That "wasted" water would be pumped down here to Cali. Yeah!



Yeah! Great idea. They have lots of water up there. I've seen it. They could ship the water directly to SoCal so everybody down there could keep their swimming pools full, water their five acre lawns, and keep all those people who like to wash their cars every other day happy.

If they don't want to ship us water maybe they could work up a water extraction plant and squeeze the excess water out of the moss, mold, and mildew that grows everywhere up there. Probably won't cost more than five or six bucks a gallon by the time it hits the end user. That water can go directly to SoCal too. 
We'll keep our clean water up here for the farmers. If there's any farmers left after the water allotment cuts of 30 to 50% that is.

Give Moonbeam a call, will ya? He's not doing much these days and he'll probably like the idea.


----------



## slowp

2dogs said:


> The week before last in our local paper an expert laid out two proposals to help the water situation. (They may not be his original ideas. IDK.) One was to place "straws", large pipes, in the ocean at river mouths to draw in the fresh water discharged by the river and then pump it into the water system. The second proposal is to create a water system beginning in Oregon (or maybe Warshington, I don't remember) that consists of a massive under ground system of pipes connecting to each river. That "wasted" water would be pumped down here to Cali. Yeah!


 
There was a rumor of an attempt by you folks to pipe/ditch the "wasted" water of the Columbia south. That rumor has been around since the 1970s and maybe even started before.


----------



## 2dogs

Gologit said:


> Yeah! Great idea. They have lots of water up there. I've seen it. They could ship the water directly to SoCal so everybody down there could keep their swimming pools full, water their five acre lawns, and keep all those people who like to wash their cars every other day happy.
> 
> If they don't want to ship us water maybe they could work up a water extraction plant and squeeze the excess water out of the moss, mold, and mildew that grows everywhere up there. Probably won't cost more than five or six bucks a gallon by the time it hits the end user. That water can go directly to SoCal too.
> We'll keep our clean water up here for the farmers. If there's any farmers left after the water allotment cuts of 30 to 50% that is.
> 
> Give Moonbeam a call, will ya? He's not doing much these days and he'll probably like the idea.



Every time I talk to the Governor he is playing with his train set and making choo-choo noises.


----------



## GRTimberCO

Our Governor made a little news today himself. Seems the politician who wants to be a national player has such thin skin he couldn't take a little disagreement from a cook at a fine-foods market. Pat announced that he was governor and the man reportedly replied "yeah, thanks for nothing". Pat yelled at him and reported his "rude behavior" to the owner of Reed's Fine Foods. Having heard the governor quite a bit since he was a mayor of Charlotte, I don't think I've ever heard a bigger crybaby that wants to be congressman or senator.
http://news.yahoo.com/grocery-cook-fired-hurting-north-carolina-governor-39-151900104.html


----------



## slowp

Funny, some of the transplants from SoCal complain that we people of the wetlands "never wash their cars." I did mine last month. So there. The rain washes our cars and dogs except my dog smells like he could use a bit of soap. Nope, no Columbia River for them. Salmon don't do well in swimming pools.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Funny, some of the transplants from SoCal complain that we people of the wetlands "never wash their cars." I did mine last month. So there. The rain washes our cars and dogs except my dog smells like he could use a bit of soap. Nope, no Columbia River for them. Salmon don't do well in swimming pools.


 Seems like your transplants stop and spend a few years in our part of the state before they move north. They screw things up as much as they possibly can...I think they're practicing...and then they head for the north country.
You better put extra guards on the border. With our DROUGHT! they're liable to be moving your way in record numbers. Me and some of the other guys will be out on the highway...passing out roadmaps with everything north of Yreka highlighted. Sorry.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Every time I talk to the Governor he is playing with his train set and making choo-choo noises.



I lost faith in him the first time he was governor. Remember when he and Linda Ronstadt went to Africa? And they slept in separate tents? I figured right then that the guy was either clueless or totally unable to recognize an opportunity. And then, years later, we elected him again. Sometimes it's really embarrassing to be from California.

We better leave Moonbeam alone. If this gets sent to the Political threads I'm not going in after it.


----------



## northmanlogging

lightning hit the trees next to me on the drive home today, still getting lightning all around, and heavy hail... 

I'd send it down to Cali for you all but then you would just have to spend your spring putting out the other 1/3...


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> lightning hit the trees next to me on the drive home today, still getting lightning all around, and heavy hail...
> 
> I'd send it down to Cali for you all but then you would just have to spend your spring putting out the other 1/3...


 Send down some snow for the mountains. We're getting tired of listening to the skiers whining and complaining.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Weve gotten a hundred plus inches of snow up here in the past 10 days up in the mountains. The heavy rain today should wash a bunch of Caulifournyaaans back south


----------



## northmanlogging

supposed to snow tomorrow or tonight at my place? As it sits there is about 1-2" of just hail...

Whatever happens as long as it freezes or dries out just a little bit by Sat. then I can get some wood moved, didn't get any loads out this week.


----------



## madhatte

Bounding out wetlands in this deluge is sheer masochism.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Pass was fubard today so instead of going over to the wet side for work the ole lady was stuck over here. She left very peeved this morning. I left after and didn't come back... lol okay no I wasn't running just had to go back to school lol Heading for the rain tomorrow. Hope Eugene isn't too soggy.


----------



## slowp

I find this site quite handy for tracking snow levels. Looks like I may wake up to a bit of the white death.

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?zoneid=WAZ519


----------



## slowp

Ignored by the Weather Channel. 
http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/


----------



## slowp

As predicted, a thin layer of white glop is on the ground this morning. 

I plan to get a season pass when they go on sale, because of this.
http://skiwhitepass.com/the-mountai...y&utm_campaign=UA-27507814-1&utm_medium=email


----------



## Gologit

Will the firewood thieves be out in force now?

http://yubanet.com/regional/Forest-Service-Knifes-Its-Own-Law-Enforcement-Budget.php#.UwUAOfldUos


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Will the firewood thieves be out in force now?


 
They already are. The one about buying gadgets hit right on. The one LEO here seemed to already spend a lot of time in the office trying to figure out how to work the newest toy ordered by the powers above. We had a trainee who didn't want to go to the woods at all. He got a job and had some areas closed to huckleberry picking so he wouldn't have to go "patrol" there. An LEO has to accompany the Christmas Tree all the way to D.C. I guess terrorists might could attack it, and so on. 

They got a big budget when they kept hollering about timber theft on timber sales. They also were "stovepiped" at that point--no longer working for the district or forest, but for their own little organization. The people in the know said that doing that would bite back some day--budget wise. It did. Now there aren't many timber sales. And so goes the story of Too Many Pigs At The Trough, which isn't just about LEOs but about everybody who feeds off the timber sale budget.


----------



## northmanlogging

tree falls within 50' of any kind of road around here its gone within in a week, firewood is a big seller, which is the messed up part is nobody can find wood on FS land because the thieves are all taking it, so they have to buy it from the theives, or call people like me and ask if I have any firewood for sale, which... I don't...

And the DNR firewood permits are pretty much a crap shoot since the harvesters and processors don't leave much behind in the way of tops, usually just a pile of limbs and long butts, so then the people with permits... or not... start dropping leave trees.


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> tree falls within 50' of any kind of road around here its gone within in a week, firewood is a big seller, which is the messed up part is nobody can find wood on FS land because the thieves are all taking it, so they have to buy it from the theives, or call people like me and ask if I have any firewood for sale, which... I don't...
> 
> And the DNR firewood permits are pretty much a crap shoot since the harvesters and processors don't leave much behind in the way of tops, usually just a pile of limbs and long butts, so then the people with permits... or not... start dropping leave trees.


 
It is similar here. In fact, one year it was said that a family of alleged firewood thieves rode motorcycles behind an FS gate and worked away bucking up the blowdown on the road. When the gate was unlocked, they were waiting with pickups and drove in and loaded it up. People are a bit more picky. They'll often overlook a hemlock or maple, and alder.


----------



## DavdH

Today at the mill, need the freeze up to get back to loggin'


----------



## northmanlogging

There is a myth that Hemlock is terrible firewood... Eastern Hemlock is terrible firewood, Western Hemlock is great, burns better then our Maple, less ash, and lights fairly easy... And I love burning me some alder...

Best change the subject before we get tramped to the firewood corner...


----------



## paccity

lost a head gasket on the superduty. started on it last nite. .


----------



## slowp

Another thin coat of slush is on the the ground.


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> lost a head gasket on the superduty. started on it last nite. .



And that's how you tell who's really a logger. "I started on it last nite"...not "I had it towed to the shop" or "maybe I'll get to it this weekend" or "I'll take a look at it in the morning after I have my latte' and croissants"...
If you need a piece of machinery for the next day sometimes all night maintenance marathons are part of the deal. Dammit.


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> And that's how you tell who's really a logger. "I started on it last nite"...not "I had it towed to the shop" or "maybe I'll get to it this weekend" or "I'll take a look at it in the morning after I have my latte' and croissants"...
> If you need a piece of machinery for the next day sometimes all night maintenance marathons are part of the deal. Dammit.


yup, wish i still had my underhood creeper, saves on the back and good for a short nap. almost started on it this weekend but just in case the head has a little wow too it i can still get it in to the machine shop and have it ready for mon. going down to the logging conference tomorrow so loose a day there.


----------



## Joe46

Bummer Pac. Pretty rare on a 7.3, pretty normal on a 6 oh no. Lifting off them heads will put muscles in your poop!


----------



## SliverPicker

8+ more weeks of winter. 13 weeks until loggin' season. shack batty


----------



## Joe46

Looking for ideas. I kept my corks in a box out in the garage along with some other boots I don't wear much. Mice got in there. Ate most of the felt liner in a pair of Sorels, along with my old felt bushler pad. They built themselves a nice abode in one of the corks. I rinsed them out with water a couple of times then filled them with water and added some bleach and let them soak for a while. The one boot still has a odor, probably mouse pee. Any ideas on getting rid of the stink? These were some of the last Buffalos made and really don't want to toss them!


----------



## SliverPicker

Wear 'em without socks all summer and I guarantee you won't even notice the mouse pee odor.


----------



## Gologit

Joe46 said:


> Looking for ideas. I kept my corks in a box out in the garage along with some other boots I don't wear much. Mice got in there. Ate most of the felt liner in a pair of Sorels, along with my old felt bushler pad. They built themselves a nice abode in one of the corks. I rinsed them out with water a couple of times then filled them with water and added some bleach and let them soak for a while. The one boot still has a odor, probably mouse pee. Any ideas on getting rid of the stink? These were some of the last Buffalos made and really don't want to toss them!



Never ran across that particular problem. Maybe this link will help. It works good on dogs and I used it once to get tom-cat pee odor out of my pickup seats. Never leave your pickup windows down on a cold night...it makes going to work the next morning very unpleasant.

If you need a shoulder pad i have a couple of extras around here somewhere. They're home made but they work pretty good.

http://home.earthlink.net/~skunkremedy/home/sk00001.htm


----------



## Joe46

Thanks Bob, I'll give that a shot. Still have a leather pad. Doubt I'll ever need it. Appreciate the offer.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> And that's how you tell who's really a logger. "I started on it last nite"...not "I had it towed to the shop" or "maybe I'll get to it this weekend" or "I'll take a look at it in the morning after I have my latte' and croissants"....


Most of my saws are in pieces in cardboard boxes in the garage. I'll try to get to them this weekend. Barring that, I'll have a look in the morning after my latte and croissants


----------



## northmanlogging

Baking soda, absorbs odors, use it like foot powder and toss a box or so in each boot, wait a few days then dump the soda out and regrease em. Or just wear them for awhile and try not to think about the fact that rats and mice have no bladder control they just pee all the time... everywhere they go, no matter what they are doing, eating, sleeping, chewing on boots, making more rodents, eating your cereal... never stop peeing.


----------



## Metals406

Try an enzyme spray like Nature's Miracle for pet urine.

It works on my dogs leaky bladder "accidents".


----------



## slowp

Then, go to the Home and Garden show and pick up a cat. Or go to the humane society. I don't know how they knew, but the Grapple Cat has been just like they told me, and he was picked up off the street somewhere. He killed all the mice in the shop, and keeps it mouse and vole free. He doesn't take on packrats though. He does try to take down The Used Dog once in a while with the classic style of lions--grabbing the flank of the intended meal to bring it down. The Used Dog is a bit too big for that so no worries. Oh, and every once in a while, I find a freshly killed put in the middle of the road for my viewing pleasure. He's been well worth the $40 I had to pay for him.


----------



## Trx250r180

Go buy new boots .


----------



## Nuzzy

Trx250r180 said:


> Go buy new boots .




Says the Junk Man.


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> Then, go to the Home and Garden show and pick up a cat. Or go to the humane society. I don't know how they knew, but the Grapple Cat has been just like they told me, and he was picked up off the street somewhere. He killed all the mice in the shop, and keeps it mouse and vole free. He doesn't take on packrats though. He does try to take down The Used Dog once in a while with the classic style of lions--grabbing the flank of the intended meal to bring it down. The Used Dog is a bit too big for that so no worries. Oh, and every once in a while, I find a freshly killed put in the middle of the road for my viewing pleasure. He's been well worth the $40 I had to pay for him.



So how big of a turn can this "grapple kitty" pull, and what kind of fuel use, I understand it runs on unconventional fuel (passive aggression and kibble)....


SOB its fricken snowing... guess I better hurry out and try to get some logging done before this **** gets deep. At least the ground is frozen.


----------



## slowp

It is semi-sunny here. 

The Grapple Cat consumes less kibble since I got a plug in heating pad for him. He can yard a fully grown plump mole. I thought he was consuming too much fuel and figured out it was some other wee beast who could negotiate the kitty door. I put the fuel away at night. Consumption has halved. 

Actually, it looks to be snowing to the NW, up in the mountains.


----------



## rwoods

*They say the mind is one of the first things to go.*

This morning I skidded out to the road with my little tractor the last tree of several I cut down for the firewood cutters. While weaving in and out I noticed that all of my stumps had a 25* slope to them. I knew I was rusty from a few months hiatus but what the heck usually my sloping cuts run parallel with the ground - these were all very consistent. Then I noticed that most had no hinges. Thought to myself if word gets out Bob will toss me from AS and RandyMac will confiscate all my yellow saws. I began to ponder whether or not I should just surrender my saws and fade away. On my last of four skids (it is a little tractor so I had bucked the trunk into four logs), I came to my senses when I realized that all my nice tall firewood stumps (good for the back, the tractor driver and the squirrels) had been whacked off by the firewood cutters. I felt a whole lot better about my skills but now I'm wondering about the old mind.  

Below are some falling pictures from this afternoon at a different site. I didn't get the job finished as a little 7 incher sat back and I wore myself out pulling it over by hand. Don't be too hard on me about the lay or the ugly stumps. I did keep them all off the fence and the power lines. Ron

Before:



After:



A few stump shots:


----------



## Metals406

A+ for sling'n yellow iron.


----------



## SliverPicker

Good job. Is your chain sharp?


----------



## Gologit

FSTEP classes. Watching 50 mostly middle aged and elderly people who don't bend in as many places as they used to participate in simulated fire shelter deployment. After six hours of lectures. On a hard floor. With a time limit. And having to repack your practice shelter to specs. 

The doughnuts were good, though.


----------



## treeslayer2003

good job Ron, beech is nasty hard to cut.


----------



## 1270d

your beech must be a bit different than ours slayer. The stuff we have saws up pretty nice, like soft maple or red oak.


----------



## treeslayer2003

our beech cuts like hickory or locust.


----------



## rwoods

SliverPicker said:


> Good job. Is your chain sharp?



It was a booger-ed up chain that I just ran through the grinder as I was in a hurry and I didn't lower the depth guides. As you can see, it was putting out a lot of fine dust - so I would say "No" but the wood was as hard as a rock. I am using one of the Dinasaw wheels from Bailey's. Mine doesn't have a nice round radius so it doesn't give you much of a hook. But it usually does a fair job for cutting white and red oaks so more likely than not I just didn't do a very good job sharpening. 



treeslayer2003 said:


> good job Ron, beech is nasty hard to cut.



Thanks, and Yes. I was surprised how hard it was as I thought it was maple, most varieties of which around here cut easily. I couldn't lean on my 8 pin saw as I typically can. Since I don't usually cut wood this hard, I couldn't tell if it was the chain or the wood. Probably both. 

Ron


----------



## rwoods

This was more like locust. I cut a fair amount of hickory and this was harder than the hickory I usually cut.* But my chain could throw the comparisons. Ron

* The small stuff it wasn't noticeable but the bar+ stuff was tough.


----------



## treeslayer2003

seems the older ones are harder, more so close to the ground.
one of those trees was maple but most looked like beech.


----------



## rwoods

When the leaves are gone my tree id IQ goes way down. And it is not very high with the leaves on. Ron


----------



## bitzer

Looks good Ron! Thanks for sharing! 

My least favorite to cut due to hardness on the stump (bucking never seems that different between species to me).

Hardest 
1. Hard Maple
2. Hickory -shaggy
3. Hickory-smooth
4. White oak
5. Red oak
6. Beech
7. Elm
8. Ash
9. Soft maple
10. Basswood
Softest.

I would say the red and white oak can be interchangeable with the type of woods I find them in. The last two oak jobs I cut, I would have rather cut white all day. Some jobs its the opposite.


----------



## treeslayer2003

pretty much all hard but poplar gum and pine here. red oak not bad but I have cut hard ones. seems any thing big is hard. I even have come across hard poplar but only at the stump, bucking they were soft. my buyer says wood on the shore is some of the hardest on the east coast, I ain't cut no where else.


----------



## rwoods

treeslayer2003 said:


> pretty much all hard but poplar gum and pine here. red oak not bad but I have cut hard ones. *seems any thing big is hard. I even have come across hard poplar* but only at the stump, bucking they were soft. my buyer says wood on the shore is some of the hardest on the east coast, I ain't cut no where else.



Most of the hickory I cut is small so that likely explains why I don't equate it with locust. As to poplar, I avoid cutting it if I can as it isn't the best firewood, nevertheless it is fun to cut. I have never cut a hard live one but of the dead wood I collect I have run across some hard as nails yellow poplar even though very small in size. Ron


----------



## OlympicYJ

paccity said:


> yup, wish i still had my underhood creeper, saves on the back and good for a short nap. almost started on it this weekend but just in case the head has a little wow too it i can still get it in to the machine shop and have it ready for mon. going down to the logging conference tomorrow so loose a day there.



I'm sure we crossed paths and didn't know it. I was there Thurs and part of Fri...


----------



## 2dogs

Gologit said:


> FSTEP classes. Watching 50 mostly middle aged and elderly people who don't bend in as many places as they used to participate in simulated fire shelter deployment. After six hours of lectures. On a hard floor. With a time limit. And having to repack your practice shelter to specs.
> 
> The doughnuts were good, though.


There is talk again about adding a pack test to the requirements for contractors. Fallers will have to pass the "arduous" test which is 3 miles in 45 minutes carrying a 45lb pack. It was said that runners and water tender drivers will have to pass the same test. The obits will be real interesting the days following that test.
BTW it was still wet from our annual rain storm so we threw shelters inside on the concrete floor. I hit the floor way to hard. Fortunately inside the shelter no one could see me whimpering.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> There is talk again about adding a pack test to the requirements for contractors. Fallers will have to pass the "arduous" test which is 3 miles in 45 minutes carrying a 45lb pack. It was said that runners and water tender drivers will have to pass the same test. The obits will be real interesting the days following that test.
> BTW it was still wet from our annual rain storm so we threw shelters inside on the concrete floor. I hit the floor way to hard. Fortunately inside the shelter no one could see me whimpering.



I made a post in Fire about that. From the looks of the class I took Saturday there would be wide spread cardiac incidents. Runners, water tender drivers, even Cat skinners...they're going to leave their vehicle and try to escape on foot?


----------



## Metals406

2dogs said:


> There is talk again about adding a pack test to the requirements for contractors. Fallers will have to pass the "arduous" test which is 3 miles in 45 minutes carrying a 45lb pack. It was said that runners and water tender drivers will have to pass the same test. The obits will be real interesting the days following that test.
> BTW it was still wet from our annual rain storm so we threw shelters inside on the concrete floor. I hit the floor way to hard. Fortunately inside the shelter no one could see me whimpering.



Not just talk. . . They're making contractors do it. March 8th I do my 130 class, now with the 3 mile pack test added. And the way our weather is, it'll be -5 degrees and snowing. You know, to mimic fire season.


----------



## rwoods

I was sadden to read that Bob's retirement fund has been plundered. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-couple-finds-10m-gold-coins-buried-yard-n38471 I could offer some weekend work. Ron


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> I was sadden to read that Bob's retirement fund has been plundered. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-couple-finds-10m-gold-coins-buried-yard-n38471 I could offer some weekend work. Ron



Dammit, I thought I had those hid better than that. Guess I better get my boots and saws ready...no retirement now. I'd take you up on the weekend work but the commute would be a killer.

How much you want to bet that people start coming out of the woodwork now making claims on those coins? The report wasn't specific about a location but what they call the Gold Country runs for a couple of hundred miles or more up through the Sierra Nevadas. There were a lot of stage coach robberies and payroll heists back in those days. If the coins were uncirculated would that mean that they'd come directly from the SanFrancisco mint? Interesting story.


----------



## northmanlogging

My great granpappy on the step drunk side ran with the hole in the wall gang, so me being the sole surviving family member not an ex con or currently in prison, it should all go to me...


----------



## slowp

Now that I trying to thin my alder and burn slash, the wind is howling again. It is a hard enough wind so limbs are flying and sometimes the house creaks. Oh well, it isn't raining.


----------



## madhatte

Best weather in weeks, and I get clobbered with paperwork and don't get anything done outside. Figures.


----------



## 2dogs

Dudes! It rained today! Well for a couple of hours anyway. The wiper blades had bonded with the windshield and I have no idea where my rain gear is but the grass is wet. I don't know what else to say.


----------



## madhatte

Good for you guys! You needed it. Here's hoping for a bit more.


----------



## treeslayer2003

looks like they gonna get some more. y'all keep it, we got to much on this side.


----------



## Metals406

Your CA rain is due to be 3"-8" of white devil here.
:-(


----------



## slowp

I think we sent you more today because it is a dry and cloudy warm morning here. I'm not seeing any wind so it might be a good day to burn.


----------



## Metals406

Blizzard warning fir late Thursday night and Friday. . . Followed by -10 to -15 for lows Saturday and Sunday.

Awesome. :-(


----------



## northmanlogging

I do miss me a good blizzard... The jokers around here think that a few flakes and a slight breeze is the end of humanity, They'd probably **** themselves stupid, if they where in a true white out condition with 90 mp winds...


----------



## 1270d

I think the equipment might take a couple extra minutes to warm up in the morning


----------



## treeslayer2003

burrrr, i'm done with winter now.
it is thawed here, may as well be spring.


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> I do miss me a good blizzard... The jokers around here think that a few flakes and a slight breeze is the end of humanity, They'd probably **** themselves stupid, if they where in a true white out condition with 90 mp winds...


 
We can get that sometimes up skiing. They close the chairs down more now than they used to.


----------



## northmanlogging

Snowmobiling for me... which can be fun on a logging road with no shoulder... as in just air to your right somewhere and a solid rock face on the left, with a switch back coming up somewhere...

Or walking home from school in WY... the one time they closed school...


----------



## 1270d

Temp hopefully bottomed out at -26 this morning. The ol 7.3 cracked off quick. No block heater or anything.


----------



## northmanlogging

So I had a half a day off from logging and Machining... the likes of which are rare anymore...

So what do I do. I dig out the ole 090 and start tearing into it again to see if I can get it going... which it does run now, just needs a carb rebuild, but it finally has a bar and chain on it, so other then the whole running for 5 seconds and dying thing its ready to throw my shoulder out of socket a few more times, That ****ing thing is heavy! But I must say once I got the bar and chain on it it balances quit well.

And just my luck the kid at the saw shop, ordered the wrong bar a few years ago and they happened to be sitting on a 36" hard nose that would bolt right up. Stole for what they paid for it.


----------



## slowp

Here we go....

http://forecast.weather.gov/showsig...one=WAZ655&local_place1=&product1=Flood+Watch


----------



## 2dogs

The truck sprung a leak. Well I mean another leak. This time tranny fluid, two coolers lines rubbed together a wore through. The part is $65.00 which is cheap as far as parts go. I had to crawl under the truck to pressure wash it to find the leak. I'm still cold from laying on the driveway in the rain. Now if I can make my elbow bend the other way I might just be able to reach the fittings. Or I may just let the mechanic and his lift change it out.


----------



## 2dogs

Took it to the mechanic. Smart move on my part.

Had some large logs to buck up today so I brought the Stihl 090 with a 4' bar. It ran great and did the job with 4" to spare. But I'll tell you I do not enjoy running that saw. My hands are still tingly from the vibes.


----------



## treeslayer2003

well.....cut one tree with the square chain........42" white oak.....I was not impressed to say the least.
walked back to the truck with the intent of fileing better angles.......105 drive links won't tighten up! brand new chain.
I didn't even count um, just threw the round back on.
guess I gotta get a breaker n some links.


----------



## hammerlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> well.....cut one tree with the square chain........42" white oak.....I was not impressed to say the least.
> walked back to the truck with the intent of fileing better angles.......105 drive links won't tighten up! brand new chain.
> I didn't even count um, just threw the round back on.
> guess I gotta get a breaker n some links.


Out of the box Oregon wont cut for crap, you have to hit the teeth pretty hard and then the depth gauges. Look at the teeth closely, out of the box the top plate will have swoop in it, the corner probably doesn't match, etc. 2 filings in and it will be in the good zone. Stick with it, at least enough to really give it a go.


----------



## treeslayer2003

stihl chain, yep soon as I get some presets so I can shorten it i'll have a go at it with the file.


----------



## paccity

nether brand cuts decent off the roll. like hammer said drop it and true it.


----------



## Metals406

Yeah, out of the box chain of any profile is NOT sharp by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> We can get that sometimes up skiing. They close the chairs down more now than they used to.


Hey Patty did you see what the ski patrol did up at Crystal this week wiping out the Boulion basin chair.


----------



## slowp

Cedarkerf said:


> Hey Patty did you see what the ski patrol did up at Crystal this week wiping out the Boulion basin chair.


 
I did. Only a million dollars worth of damage. But it musta been fun.


----------



## madhatte

I am not a programmer, at all. That's why I find it such a grind to code and debug for this inventory project, even though I'm working in a programming environment that does most of the heavy lifting for me (DataPlus Professional from Electronic Data Solutions). Rules come from the inventory software (FPS), forcing the data structure and collection protocol, and then DataPlus forces other compromises. The finished program works now, but the field data will still need massaged before setting it free in the database to be used for inventory and planning. How many tries did it take? Too many. I've missed this whole week's worth of good weather on this update. Ah, well, it's Friday, and there'll still be trees to measure on Monday.


----------



## northmanlogging

8? or more hours in the dump truck today... meant to go retrieve a trailer, then I had a flat, then they couldn't find tires, then they could, then the wiring is gone for the trailer hookup... then some other jack knob parks his truck in the way for an hour, idling... 

Was supposed to move a desk for the missus, and do some more cleanup on the logging job, none of that happened

The trailer was only 15 miles from the house.


----------



## treeslayer2003

9.00 x 20 tires? if you got open wheels ya can go to 11x22.5 radials easily.


----------



## northmanlogging

10.00xr20's

6 lug wheels so finding wheels is the hard part,

I would be rather expensive to change over. So I'll see what I can do about finding some kind of spare for now. Then if I need tires, I'm not stuck on the side of the road somewhere as the tire shop orders one in from utah or where ever.


----------



## northmanlogging

northmanlogging said:


> 10.00xr20's
> 
> 6 lug wheels so finding wheels is the hard part,
> 
> I would be rather expensive to change over. So I'll see what I can do about finding some kind of spare for now. Then if I need tires, I'm not stuck on the side of the road somewhere as the tire shop orders one in from utah or where ever.



or I could just check my damn tire pressure, that way I don't try and run a load of gravel 20 miles on a completely flat tire, thereby blowing out the side wall.


----------



## Steve NW WI

davefr said:


> I stumbled across a Stihl 064AV w/36" bar and chain for $200. It looks pretty well used (borderline rough)and I'd like to evaluate it's true mechanical condition vs. cosmetics.
> 
> Here's what I noticed:
> - Bar and chain look OK
> - Compression feels good
> - Hand protect/chain brake is either broken off or cut off
> - I noticed a couple drops of fuel leaking, but it could be a loose cap or from the vent hole.
> 
> They'll guarantee it long enough so I can go over it with a fine tooth comb and I'm fine with spending about $100 or so in parts. (new hand protect, 24" bar and chain, tune up kit, misc). Are Stihl parts super expensive??
> 
> What else should I look for? Pull the muffler and inspect the cylinder, do a compression test?
> 
> I simply want to replace my 20 year old John Deere 60V w/24" bar that must weight in at 25 lbs and it's getting heavier over time!!
> 
> The Stihl 064 would serve out it's life doing occasional stump cutting vs. continuous use, but I want it to be reliable.
> 
> Are these big old Stihl's fairly easy to restore? Are they pretty bulletproof or are they tempermental? If this thing is going to nickel and dime me to death? If so, I'd rather just save up for a 372XP or possibly a 044.
> 
> Thanks,


Six hole 20s? Deuce and a half wheels. Check mil surplus places. They swap a lot of em out to the super singles when they make the bobber pickups


----------



## treeslayer2003

should be plenty 10.00 20s around.......if ya was here i'd give ya a couple lol.
they be on open rims though.
6 lug.......ferd, f 700


----------



## Trx250r180

i may have some ,i will look northman


all i have are 2 --7.50-20 steer tires, and one traction with tread on them ,on 10 lug rims so need swapped to your rims if want them


----------



## northmanlogging

the rest of the tires are good, just had a flat on an inner I didn't catch in time.


----------



## paccity

remind ya of someone.


----------



## northmanlogging

not sure how to link the news and its still technically making news...

Hwy 530 has had a mile wide mud slide, damming the north fork stilliquamish river, water level is still rising, evacuations in progress, 3 dead, more wounded. At some point the river will breach the dam, lots of peeps down river could be in a world of hurt.

Gots kin up river form there... Most all of them should be ok other then the 2 hour detour through concrete and sedrowolley.


----------



## treeslayer2003

we where just talkin about that on another channel, I was thinkin you weren't to far from that.


----------



## northmanlogging

Knaw don't live in the immediate vicinity anymore, but I know it well. Closer to Darrington then Oso or Arlington, I'm about 20 miles south as the crow flies. 60 in a car.


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> not sure how to link the news and its still technically making news...
> 
> Hwy 530 has had a mile wide mud slide, damming the north fork stilliquamish river, water level is still rising, evacuations in progress, 3 dead, more wounded. At some point the river will breach the dam, lots of peeps down river could be in a world of hurt.
> 
> Gots kin up river form there... Most all of them should be ok other then the 2 hour detour through concrete and sedrowolley.


Good luck to you and your family NM


----------



## slowp

Any word? My computer is having problems, so I just saw it on the news. Hope all is as OK as it can be.


----------



## slowp

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Massive-mudslide-blocks-road-destroys-home-near--251711901.html


----------



## northmanlogging

taint got no TV... and scanner is all quite... last I heard last night is the river is still stopped.


----------



## slowp

I taint hardly got a computer, but here's a link to tweets about it. Some pictures too.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#530Slide&src=hash


----------



## madhatte

Yesterday I went hunting wetlands in a different sale and couldn't find any. I swear wetlands are gonna drive me over the edge.


----------



## Gologit

I just got back from a few days on the coast....Humboldt County. I'd forgotten how itchy Redwood bark can be. Good thing it rained 'most every day or it might have been worse.
And why, when you're bucking, is the best place to stand always on the _downwind_ side of the log?


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, it just is......always get two eyes full of chips.


----------



## Trx250r180

Gologit said:


> I just got back from a few days on the coast....Humboldt County. I'd forgotten how itchy Redwood bark can be. Good thing it rained 'most every or it might have been worse.
> And why, when you're bucking, is the best place to stand always on the _downwind_ side of the log?



if you bore cut in first bucking would that help keep the dust in the log ? Keep the spray off the top of the chain down some ?


----------



## Gologit

Trx250r180 said:


> if you bore cut in first bucking would that help keep the dust in the log ? Keep the spray off the top of the chain down some ?



It might...if you could. In this case a bore cut wouldn't have worked. I had a borrowed 880 with a 56" bar and I still couldn't single-cut. I'd start the first cut standing on top of the log and putting a run in the back side and as far down the middle as I could reach. Then I'd climb down and finish the cut from the ground. The logs were laid across a steep side hill and as each buck was made the log would take off down the hill. Sometimes the other piece would go too, so it was better not to have any more bar in the wood than you had to when you were nearly all sawed up.
That 880 is a fine saw for that kind of work but I'm sure glad it belongs to somebody else. I don't think I'd want to pack that thing all day every day.


----------



## treeslayer2003

56".....wow! that rig prolly weighs almost half my weight lol.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> 56".....wow! that rig prolly weighs almost half my weight lol.


 
They get even heavier as the day goes on.


----------



## HuskStihl

That'd be a limbing/skidder saw for me


----------



## Trx250r180

If that stuff is as dusty as the trees in treeslingers old videos there is no way around that bark dust I don't think


----------



## Gologit

Trx250r180 said:


> If that stuff is as dusty as the trees in treeslingers old videos there is no way around that bark dust I don't think



You're right. That's the only advantage to working in the pouring rain...it keeps the dust down. Mostly.


----------



## HuskStihl

Is Jasha back in the woods?


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> Is Jasha back in the woods?



When i asked him last week ,he can hold a saw now but hand is not 100% and does not think will improve much more on whats there ,he is not a whiner type of guy from what i see so he could be in tons of pain and not complain a bit ,i believe he said he will be going back to work soon ,not cutting though


----------



## HuskStihl

Trx250r180 said:


> When i asked him last week ,he can hold a saw now but hand is not 100% and does not think will improve much more on whats there ,he is not a whiner type of guy from what i see so he could be in tons of pain and not complain a bit ,i believe he said he will be going back to work soon ,not cutting though


I'm unhappy to hear that, but thanks for the update. Sad that a guy like me can mismatch cuts and slope back cuts with no limitations other than arthritis, and a guy who is actually good at it is unable to use those skills.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> They get even heavier as the day goes on.


 
Perhaps somebody from say, Texas, would fly up and be a sherpa for you? You could then coach them on the art of packing heavy gear on a near vertical slope, with nothing but blackberry vines or devil's club or salmonberry to grab hold on if you have a hand free to make a vegetation belay. You could fill their ears with your wisdom, as you tell them how to negotiate the slope, "Point your toes while you are somersaulting, dammit! And don't let that saw roll down the hill!" Ah yes, maybe they'd even pay you or bring out some Donettos for such an experience.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Perhaps somebody from say, Texas, would fly up and be a sherpa for you? You could then coach them on the art of packing heavy gear on a near vertical slope, with nothing but blackberry vines or devil's club or salmonberry to grab hold on if you have a hand free to make a vegetation belay. You could fill their ears with your wisdom, as you tell them how to negotiate the slope, "Point your toes while you are somersaulting, dammit! And don't let that saw roll down the hill!" Ah yes, maybe they'd even pay you or bring out some Donettos for such an experience.



I think that the Texas guys I know might actually work out pretty good. Most of them are tough and resourceful. I think that's required just to live in that state. They don't have any steep ground in Texas but Texans almost always have a sense of humor. You can teach a guy to log on cow face ground but you can't teach them how to laugh at the rough spots. The boys from the southern states would be okay, too. Most of them anyway.

Some of those guys from the midwest might be a little short on how-to though. Iowa comes to mind. A few other states too...mostly states East of the Rockies and ending with the letter N. Maybe I'm wrong about some of the midwest guys . Since a lot of them already know everything they might be easy to train. We'd find out soon enough.

I don't know about the _wisdom_ part but I might have some _advice_ for them. Like you said, if you start to slide, let go of the saw. Saws are expensive, good ones are hard to replace, and they don't take well to being bounced off of stumps and rocks. Plus, the sooner you let go of the saw the less distance you'll have to pack it back up the hill. And you _will_ go back up the hill if you want to finish your job and stay employed. If not, just keep going downhill 'til you get to the road. Catch a truck for town if any of them will stop for you.
Let go of your lunch bucket too. It will give the rest of the crew something to do while you're plowing ground and they probably won't eat _everything.
_
Ignore the rude comments and coarse attempts at humor from the other guys. They mean well, mostly, and it might be their turn next. That thought might cheer you up some.

While you're at the bottom of your slide it's a good idea to keep looking up. If there's bucked timber up hill from you it might be a good idea to angle your climb off to one side or the other. If somebody above you starts a saw try to move a little faster so you don't hold up their production. It's not their fault that you're a klutz and they need to make a living, too.

If you get scraped up try to keep it to yourself. If you can walk you can work and unless the blood is running down into your eyes and obscuring your vision there's no reason not to start cutting again. Cussing is allowed, though...if you have any wind left after climbing back up the hill.

Vegetation belays are alright...if the vegetation is sturdy enough. Sometimes brushy ground is a good thing. But slick spring grass and ferns don't give you much to hang onto. Not for very long anyway.

They wouldn't have to pay me. The entertainment would be worth it. Maybe I'd wind up with some YouTube videos or something to sell to that TV show that likes accidents and disasters.

I like the Donettos idea.


----------



## slowp

Hmmmf. WarshingtoN, OregoN...


----------



## HuskStihl

I'm neither tough, nor resourceful


----------



## paccity

slowp said:


> Hmmmf. WarshingtoN, OregoN...


what? a little sogg.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Hmmmf. WarshingtoN, OregoN...


----------



## paccity

ah. thick i am.


----------



## slowp

Shall we uninvite people from states ending in ornia?


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Hmmmf. WarshingtoN, OregoN...




LOL...I edited the post that irritated you. Am I still on the pie and cookie list?


----------



## treeslayer2003

mmmm ahhm.......y'all not spossed to fight......i'm tellin.......wait, who do I tell?


----------



## treeslayer2003

northy! ima tell northy on y'all......so there!


----------



## northmanlogging

Huh what...

I'm a just gonna hide and watch...



On a side note, moved the missus today, in my super gyppo rig... pintle came loose... safety chains are a good thing.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yea, that not spossed to happen......


----------



## northmanlogging

The latch thingy is kinda funny... got it figured now... popped off on a narrow, windy and busy road...


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> The latch thingy is kinda funny... got it figured now... popped off on a narrow, windy and busy road...



Does the pintle hook have an air actuated clamp or is it just a straight hook? Sometimes the air clamp will fail and the drawbar bouncing up and down will pop the latch.


----------



## treeslayer2003

don't they all have a safety pin? ours did.


----------



## northmanlogging

Just a mechanical cam, that needs to be in the right place. Its more then a little sloppy so it feels latched even when its not.

The whole works needs to be lowered at least 8" to the trailer sits more level anyway, so I'll just get a new hitch before I lower it. Once its locked proper it stays locked, just hard to tell what is proper.

No safety pin that I can see, its probably as old as or older then the truck, only had one safety chain mount until recently.


----------



## paccity

pos gm. i have never seen a truck with as many issues as this thing . only 78k on it . this is what i'm dealing with now. i know it's not a great pic but can you see the problem? 
hint , it lost pwr and quit and was puking diesel.


----------



## HuskStihl

Turbo badness? Needs an eliminator kit.


----------



## paccity

injector pump disassembling itself . pos.


----------



## HuskStihl

Bogus


----------



## paccity

Needs an eliminator kit.[/quote said:


> ya need to eliminate the truck.


 this is just one of many good times with this truck.


----------



## HuskStihl

paccity said:


> this is just one of many good times with this truck.


But it's got an Allison transmission. Gotta be worth the frustrations


----------



## northmanlogging

144xxx miles on a free ferd... few glow plugs, few quarts of trans fluid, and a few batteries, 13 starters(just buy napa and stop worrying) ... still running strong.a

Meanwhile I have at least 3 people telling me how the Duramuck is such a great truck... they've only needed one new engine, and all new injectors, and a new fuel pump, and the brakes quit, and it overheats under load, and the timming belt blew, and, and , and.

I think grand total with oil changes I may have spent about 2k on the crummy, those injectors the durapunk had to replace where 1200 a piece, new motor 10k...

sorry on a rant again...

FORD...


----------



## paccity

the other two trucks are f-800's one with a 5.9 and a ford leyland always run . i did not make the call on the 5500's purchase. but i will on it's replacement.


----------



## Gologit

I wish Cat made a pickup. Or maybe Peterbilt.


----------



## northmanlogging

Kenworth?


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Kenworth?



Yeah. A T-800 shrunk down to 3/4 ton size. 4wd of course. With a small Cat engine. Perfect.


----------



## Joe46

Kinda always wished Ford and Cat would have made a deal to put a purpose built engine in the Ford pickup. Although my 01 7.3 has been almost trouble free(knock on my head). The injectors are a Cat design however.


----------



## Steve NW WI

Gologit said:


> Yeah. A T-800 shrunk down to 3/4 ton size. 4wd of course. With a small Cat engine. Perfect.



Small Cat = Perkins. Good stuff. CAT knows enough to buy someone that can build a decent smaller motor.


----------



## lfnh

paccity said:


> pos gm. i have never seen a truck with as many issues as this thing . only 78k on it . this is what i'm dealing with now. i know it's not a great pic but can you see the problem? hint , it lost pwr and quit and was puking diesel.


 
Thanks for sharing.
Tough question. Not much I recognize in there, so here's a guess



old 5.9 mfi, 160 hp. new solenoid contacts, starter bearings and brushes, 35 bucks. about 31 o&f changes.
no fliippy caps


----------



## Metals406

I'd get a Pete pickup.


----------



## northmanlogging

they made some ferd rangers with a little perkins in em, kinda rare and never a 4x4. And some of the bigger ford industrial stuff had cat motors.


----------



## Steve NW WI

northmanlogging said:


> they made some ferd rangers with a little perkins in em, kinda rare and never a 4x4. And some of the bigger ford industrial stuff had cat motors.



Think those were a Mazda diesel??? Not sure though.

Here's one for ya, Bob:


----------



## 2dogs

Back around 1985 I had a friend with a Mazda p/u with a diesel. Man that thing was underpowered and slow! Pulling onto the freeway was scary.


----------



## paccity

lfnh said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> Tough question. Not much I recognize in there, so here's a guess
> View attachment 343305
> 
> 
> old 5.9 mfi, 160 hp. new solenoid contacts, starter bearings and brushes, 35 bucks. about 31 o&f changes.
> no fliippy caps
> View attachment 343306


if you look just up from where you wrote on the pic you'll see the screws that hold the injector pump together have all backed out . would not be so bad but it's so buried it's stupid . a lot of stuff came off of that motor to get to what you see there. it runs again to-nite . ready for work monday. see how long till the next thing goes wrong.


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> if you look just up from where you wrote on the pic you'll see the screws that hold the injector pump together have all backed out . would not be so bad but it's so buried it's stupid . a lot of stuff came off of that motor to get to what you see there. it runs again to-nite . ready for work monday. see how long till the next thing goes wrong.



Ugh. Lousy way to have to spend the week-end.


----------



## madhatte

I guess that's the mixed blessing of having GSA vehicles: I don't have to work on them, but repairs take forever. I just got my truck back after almost 4 weeks downtime between radio work and body work. I can't imagine that any of that should have taken more than a day or two.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> I guess that's the mixed blessing of having GSA vehicles: I don't have to work on them, but repairs take forever. I just got my truck back after almost 4 weeks downtime between radio work and body work. I can't imagine that any of that should have taken more than a day or two.




Body work? As in "that stump just popped up and tore my fender off?" There might be an interesting story here.


----------



## northmanlogging

Gologit said:


> Body work? As in "that stump just popped up and tore my fender off?" There might be an interesting story here.



I'm hoping for the check out my fall'n skills, "hold my beer I'll park this right in front of the bosses truck"


----------



## lfnh

paccity said:


> if you look just up from where you wrote on the pic you'll see the screws that hold the injector pump together have all backed out . would not be so bad but it's so buried it's stupid . a lot of stuff came off of that motor to get to what you see there. it runs again to-nite . ready for work monday. see how long till the next thing goes wrong.


 
yup, know where you're at with loose screws. 10 cents worth of loctite red. this one they knew about for decades. T&A saginaw.


felt good to get the stats on that torx.



three of four were self extracted. these went into lot of stuff on and off road.
reassembly of that sig/wash/dimmer stalk control actuator is a rubic's cube first time around.
got plenty of r&r pics - just in case.
someone else needs them


----------



## Gologit

lfnh said:


> View attachment 343513
> 
> 
> yup, know where you're at with loose screws. 10 cents worth of loctite red. this one they knew about for decades. T&A saginaw.
> View attachment 343513
> 
> felt good to get the stats on that torx.
> 
> View attachment 343514
> 
> three of four were self extracted. these went into lot of stuff on and off road.
> reassembly of that sig/wash/dimmer stalk control actuator is a rubic's cube first time around.
> got plenty of r&r pics - just in case.
> someone else needs them



I don't need them but now I know who to call.


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, late 80s dodge tilt column ......yes they are fun.


----------



## 2dogs

Eighty degrees and bright sun today. I am sun burned on my face big time. I was facing into the sun running the winch this morning. Too stupid to stop and put on sunscreen. Do they even sell sunscreen in Warshinton?


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Eighty degrees and bright sun today. I am sun burned on my face big time. I was facing into the sun running the winch this morning. Too stupid to stop and put on sunscreen. Do they even sell sunscreen in Warshinton?



I remember seeing some in Yakima. Maybe it was Pasco. It was either suncreen or wart remover, I forget which.
On the other side of the hill they use it for slug bait. Sometimes they add sand to it and use it for moss remover.


----------



## northmanlogging

2dogs said:


> Eighty degrees and bright sun today. I am sun burned on my face big time. I was facing into the sun running the winch this morning. Too stupid to stop and put on sunscreen. Do they even sell sunscreen in Warshinton?



Yessss, gees we get like three days of sun here, so you'd need spf 60 or better, otherwise its like a fork in the microwave...


----------



## slowp

2dogs said:


> Eighty degrees and bright sun today. I am sun burned on my face big time. I was facing into the sun running the winch this morning. Too stupid to stop and put on sunscreen. Do they even sell sunscreen in Warshinton?


 
Yes. I was up at the ski hill the last couple of days wearing SFP 60. It made me look a bit anemic, but it worked. Don't forget sunglasses. On the snow, I have to wear super dark non-prescriptors or my eyes get sore. Here's what I was helping with.



They also are sunscreened up and wearing stylish Disney Fairies sunglasses. Wish they made those for adults!


----------



## Joe46

You California guys are real comedians. Why just Monday it hit 72 degrees at my place! Tuesday it was raining again.


----------



## Gologit

Joe46 said:


> You California guys are real comedians. Why just Monday it hit 72 degrees at my place! Tuesday it was raining again.


 

That's okay Joe. When it's 120 down here and still 72 up there you have my permission to gloat. 
Slowp always does.


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> Body work? As in "that stump just popped up and tore my fender off?" There might be an interesting story here.


Naw, they just make us repair every little ding. I'd as soon do all the repairs at once when we turn 'em in but that's not how they roll. Nobody in the woods can avoid dings.


----------



## treeslayer2003

just turned in a bunch of permit apps..........of 4, all 4 have a endangered spicies hit. sometimes I hate this side of it.
every thing is endangered but me I guess.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> just turned in a bunch of permit apps..........of 4, all 4 have a endangered spicies hit. sometimes I hate this side of it.
> every thing is endangered but me I guess.



You're probably right. Other than loggers what kind of endangered critters do you have back there?


----------



## treeslayer2003

eagles, blue herons, fox skwerls..........salamanders, some kind of song birds........ferns, giant cane, some kind of orchid. I think the only thing we don't got is your spotted owl.......hey don't tell um if ya see one over here.
it is disheartening when every permit ya turn in comes back with some reason for further review.........on the other hand they about to dump thousands of tons of Louisiana muck in the chesapeke bay and that's ok cuz its their idea.
sorry folks I am just in a mood today.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Why are they dumping muck from Louisiana all the way in Maryland?


----------



## treeslayer2003

they are using the excuse that its for oyster shells.......we have plenty of our own shells.
every time they do that bring in from elsewhere thing it wrecks something.
I bet its payola.
.......it seems they are fighting to stop this.....another good.


----------



## treeslayer2003

update; so it appears on one job it is the Delmarva fox squirrel that may be present, but since we are to do a 20"+ selection the forester says it won't be a big deal.
both he and the gal at soil service called to let me know today, thank god for these folks. I hope they don't retire till I do, we didn't always have such good folks to work with.


----------



## madhatte

"Delmarva" is a name I haven't heard since I left VB ten years ago.


----------



## treeslayer2003

where is VB?


----------



## Gologit

Ordering the first round of trucks 1/2 hour apart and having six of them all show up at once and then start griping about the waiting time.

Yeah, I'm on the loader again...for awhile.


Sent from my phone with one thumb bandaged and darn poor cab light.


----------



## Samlock

Gologit said:


> Ordering the first round of trucks 1/2 hour apart and having six of them all show up at once and then start griping about the waiting time.
> 
> Yeah, I'm on the loader again...for awhile.
> 
> 
> Sent from my phone with one thumb bandaged and darn poor cab light.



Next time, hand them queuing numbers and an old volume of women's magazines.


----------



## northmanlogging

So I bought a backhoe on saturday, wicked deal, her name is Candy cause she's a hoe... needed some work, couple of hydraulic cylinders needed restuffed, and brakes need some attention...

I got the cylinders back tonight, reinstalled them and I was off to the stump pulling and beer drinking, at a neighbors house...

And then I blew a hydraulic hose... and smashed my home made thumb... Its ok cause its not like I need it on Friday or anything, and I still have to move it out to the site... and the stump is still firmly rooted...


----------



## OlympicYJ

Pics or it didn't happen! haha


----------



## 1270d

You blew a hydraulic hose?? Weird....


----------



## SliverPicker

I think I heard of that happening to a guy once. I've never seen it with my own eyes, but people keep telling me it happens once in a while....


----------



## SliverPicker

Looking a innanet news about tornadoes. An lo and behold there's leaves on the trees in the photos in the stories. I'm in shock. We still have feet of snow on the ground in the woods. 18 degrees last night.


----------



## HuskStihl

1270d said:


> You blew a hydraulic hose?? Weird....





SliverPicker said:


> I think I heard of that happening to a guy once. I've never seen it with my own eyes, but people keep telling me it happens once in a while....


This sounded so far-fetched that I did a google search on it. Turns out to basically be an urban (or rural?) legend


----------



## SliverPicker

I should have checked Snopes.


----------



## northmanlogging

well she is a hoe, she's bound to blow a hose now and then...

still can't find the "pulley block" she was supposed to come with... but the war dept says I can have an old broken and greasy snatch block to hang on her some where...

oh and its f'n 80 deg and muggy here today... I wish it was snowing


----------



## treeslayer2003

well the watermen lost the court battle over the muck dumping.......they blockaded the river with 11 boats today.
i'm rooting for them but its only a matter of time.


----------



## slowp

treeslayer2003 said:


> well the watermen lost the court battle over the muck dumping.......they blockaded the river with 11 boats today.
> i'm rooting for them but its only a matter of time.


 
Have them put on cowboy hats.


----------



## madhatte

Cutting behind the firing ranges again. Only killed one chain today, a new record. Bullets are jerks.


----------



## slowp

Metal detectors might could be your friend.


----------



## madhatte

All they'd tell me is "bullets everywhere!" I still have to cut.


----------



## slowp

That must not be a place where you lay out timber sales? Mills frown on taking logs with bullets everywhere.


----------



## 2dogs

Even portable mills. We charge $25.00 for each piece of metal.


----------



## madhatte

This is definitely not an area where we cut commercially. In the occasional sale where we suspect that there could be metal, the timber is sold as "potentially metal contaminated" and the bids come in lower accordingly.


----------



## northmanlogging

Its a shame that jblm is so far away, I'm almost tempted to see about bidding on some of them jobs, nice flat and hard ground, well maintained, just have to dodge a few bullets now and then...

The Navy has a couple of bases near here I guess I could maybe cut on...


----------



## OlympicYJ

madhatte said:


> Cutting behind the firing ranges again. Only killed one chain today, a new record. Bullets are jerks.


Nate you thought about using carbide chain? Might actually be worth it for you since you are hitting metal. One more week and I'll be in Tumwater. Oh and I a cried found a mint 2100 CD for $400 a month. If I'da had the extra money I'da bought the thing lol


----------



## Joe46

I guess you can learn things on the firewood forum. Why just yesterday I learned that Solo make the best saw!


----------



## slowp

I picked up tips from this thread.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/how-to-fix-my-mess-up.256868/


----------



## Nuzzy

Joe46 said:


> I guess you can learn things on the firewood forum. Why just yesterday I learned that Solo make the best saw!


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> I picked up tips from this thread.
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/how-to-fix-my-mess-up.256868/


Thanks cause what I needed right now was a headache...

Them folks sound like they're going to get someone killed someday...


----------



## 1270d

Going to be tough to work for a while


----------



## HuskStihl

Oh no. D'ya get both bones or just the radius? I'm super sorry to see this happen to you, and very much hope there's no damaged nerves


----------



## treeslayer2003

1270, dang im sorry.......ouch! 
how did ya do it?


----------



## lfnh

bummer.
thankfully, not compound.

suppose you could ask the Doc to cast in a 13/64 save edge at 10* down. nah, just kidding!


----------



## 1270d

Washed out on a root on my dirtbike. Broke the back off of the wrist socket thingy, john probably knows what it is. 

I can still grind chain for sure. Be another learning curve in the harvester though.


----------



## northmanlogging

Good times good times... 

you'll be playing the guitar soon enough, Did they just cast it up or did you get some new hardware? The hardware sure seems to help it heal a whole lot faster.


----------



## 1270d

Got a splint for now. Orthopedic doc this week for a cast or plate or both


----------



## northmanlogging

down side is tsa and court house goons will tell you that those things don't set off their machines... They're lying, buts whats new... and you gets to be cut on when you didn't really need to, but they do get the bones closer together so it does heal pretty fast, and if they plate it then you can get some use out of it, casts are just in the way really... with the plate at least you can hold a pencil like Bob Dole.


----------



## Samlock

The little I know about operating a harvester - won't be easy with that hand.

Looking at silver lining, the man is made of the roughest ingredients available . Get well, 1270d!


----------



## madhatte

Applying for a pretty hefty promotion. Wish me luck.


----------



## HuskStihl

Good luck from texas!


----------



## Metals406

Go get it Nate!


----------



## 1270d

so the ER doc said he couldnt get my wrist set right after a couple attempts and referred me to an orthopedic surgeon. who is out of town. the fill in guy doesnt have a stellar reputation for good work and cant see me till friday. kinda worried the bone will start to heal in that time and need a rebreak. anyone have experience/advice?


----------



## paccity

when i powdered my wrist they first did a not so good of job at the er. went to the surgeon a two weeks later " good surgeon" said that if i wanted too use my wrist again they would have to go in and replace a lot of bone. lots of screws pins and an isofix and 8 months of rehab i can use it with little pain and mobility loss. my advice is get it done rite the first time.


----------



## treeslayer2003

good luck Nate


----------



## madhatte

Thanks, all! 

I agree with the statements about getting a wrist fixed right the first time. Mine was smashed pretty bad and held together with pins and wire; it healed pretty well thanks to the excellent work done by the Harborview surgeons. My brother, meanwhile, had almost the same break a year later, and it was botched on a first attempt. Later they went back in, re-broke it, and repaired the damage with donor bone from his hip. He's mostly OK now, but there is definitely some loss of range-of-movement, and he suffered a few months of unnecessary pain and inconvenience as a result of the first-round mistakes.


----------



## northmanlogging

Mine was rebroke and just set no extra bone or anything, but it has about 50% of the movement compared to the other, less if I make a fist or hang onto something real tight... The first doc to set it died of a cocaine overdose about 6 months after botching me...


As far as advice, call your regular doctor and see if he can pull some strings and get you in and fixed up sooner rather then later. Bones begin to heal as soon as they are broken, 1-2 weeks into it and you could have unresolvable issues. From my experience the ER docs will generally call in a specialist and have it done right if its out of their league or comfort level. In reality all the er docs are really good for is keeping air and the red stuff moving, the occasional stitch or 30, and sending you on to someone that knows more... But I have a poor opinion of ER rooms...

Just remember damnit jim I'm a logger not a doctor...


----------



## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> Applying for a pretty hefty promotion. Wish me luck.



Just BS your way into it!


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Applying for a pretty hefty promotion. Wish me luck.



Will you have to re-locate?


----------



## lfnh

1270d said:


> so the ER doc said he couldnt get my wrist set right after a couple attempts and referred me to an orthopedic surgeon. who is out of town. the fill in guy doesnt have a stellar reputation for good work and cant see me till friday. kinda worried the bone will start to heal in that time and need a rebreak. anyone have experience/advice?


 
Friday ? hell, I know vets that do stellar work on the drop of a dime.
maybe a look outside local area is in order, even if its a drive to find a good one. tick-tock.


----------



## HuskStihl

1270d said:


> so the ER doc said he couldnt get my wrist set right after a couple attempts and referred me to an orthopedic surgeon. who is out of town. the fill in guy doesnt have a stellar reputation for good work and cant see me till friday. kinda worried the bone will start to heal in that time and need a rebreak. anyone have experience/advice?


Do you have the X-rays? Just from the pic it looked like a "both bone" which is pretty complicated and best handled by hand specialists rather than general ortho. If you can get me digital xray images I can get you an answer regarding the complexity and urgency of repair.


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> Do you have the X-rays? Just from the pic it looked like a "both bone" which is pretty complicated and best handled by hand specialists rather than general ortho. If you can get me digital xray images I can get you an answer regarding the complexity and urgency of repair.



I'd take him up on that offer. Free professional advice.


----------



## slowp

Nathan--Good luck!


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> Will you have to re-locate?



Nope, it's in this office.



slowp said:


> Nathan--Good luck!



Thank you!


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> Nope, it's in this office.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you!


 
But you will still get to go out to the woods to work? For me, that was very important.


----------



## slowp

Oh my. There is a bright light that hurts my eyes outside! The sky is no longer gray! What is it??


----------



## Metals406

Don't panic, it's called the 'sun'. . . You shouldn't look directly into it or fly too close, it could melt the wax holding your wings together.


----------



## Samlock

Keep calm and carry on... It will be over soon.


----------



## 1270d

Before





after the first tug o war




The way it is now


----------



## 1270d

Other view




and after some pullin


----------



## Metals406

Yowch!!


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> But you will still get to go out to the woods to work? For me, that was very important.



too much fluorescent light = mutiny

You better believe I'll still be outside!


----------



## northmanlogging

1270d said:


> Other view
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and after some pullin



Think you could have picked a worse spot to break that? Way to close to the joint...


----------



## 1270d

found a doc who sounds decent. see him tomorrow, sounds like some hardware going in on friday


----------



## Gologit

Insurance companies! We just changed our homeowner's insurance and now we have to inventory everything in the house, garage, and shop. Everything. I feel a garage sale coming on.


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Think you could have picked a worse spot to break that? Way to close to the joint...





1270d said:


> found a doc who sounds decent. see him tomorrow, sounds like some hardware going in on friday


Showed the films to 2 different board certified hand surgeons, one said plate it for faster return to work, the other said reduce, pin, and cast it for reduced cost, both said either way would produce the same long term result, and that these fracture types do very well. Should be fine


----------



## 1270d

Sounds like I may be able to work in a week to 10 days after surgery. Light joystick duty only of course but no cast!


----------



## slowp

Oh mannnn! Just up the road is a sign CHOCOLATE LAB PUPPIES FOR SALE. Visions of cuteness run through my head.


----------



## 1270d

slowp said:


> Oh mannnn! Just up the road is a sign CHOCOLATE LAB PUPPIES FOR SALE. Visions of cuteness run through my head.


Better go pick one up! Its always fun to have a couple dogs around. Maybe the used dog needs a sidekick.

My kids are getting an Aussie pup in about a month and a half. I'm pumped, haven't had a dog in around 10 years.


----------



## slowp

The Used Dog, if he had the power of speech, would be nagging me to get him one. He loves puppies and plays very gently with them. Unfortunately, another big dog would take up valuable space in the pickup and pointy trailer. I would like a puppy to learn the ways of The Used Dog. But, not enough room as explained.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> The Used Dog, if he had the power of speech, would be nagging me to get him one. He loves puppies and plays very gently with them. Unfortunately, another big dog would take up valuable space in the pickup and pointy trailer. I would like a puppy to learn the ways of The Used Dog. But, not enough room as explained.



Oh, c'mon now. There's room for another lab and you _know_ there is. You might not be able to move around much when you get both of them in the pointy headed trailer but you're not having square dances in there anyway. It might get a bit crowded and two wet labs in the pickup on the way home from the lake might get a little messy but extra bath towels will take care of that.
Since you can't pass down TUD's bloodlines, why not do the next best thing and let him mentor a pup?

And maybe get a couple of pygmy goats for the lawn, too.


----------



## lfnh

1270d said:


> Sounds like I may be able to work in a week to 10 days after surgery. Light joystick duty only of course but no cast!


 
Hope all goes well tomorrow . Expect you'll be watching and will file a full report, no barberchairs!
take care and toe the line 1270


----------



## RandyMac

Middle-aged? Who? Me?
I just bought a hot-rod.


----------



## Steve NW WI

RandyMac said:


> Middle-aged? Who? Me?
> I just bought a hot-rod.


Can you say "MID LIFE CRISIS"?


----------



## RandyMac

Steve NW WI said:


> Can you say "MID LIFE CRISIS"?



Circumstantial evidence at best.


----------



## 1270d

after a long nap on friday i appear to be bolted back together. next appt this friday to take off the plaster


----------



## HuskStihl

Rigid fixation gives you a false sense of security. Follow the doctor's instructions carefully. Glad it's done


----------



## northmanlogging

yeah just remember the screws are there just to hold the bones together, and bone isn't a real good screw retainer... just cause your titanium reinforced doesn't necessarily mean you should start impressing the ladies by punching through brick walls or wet paper bags for that matter...


----------



## Gologit

Good advice so far. Do what the cutters and the rehab people tell you. They get really grumpy and very unpleasant when you don't. I know this from first hand (pun intended) experience.


----------



## KenJax Tree

slowp said:


> Oh mannnn! Just up the road is a sign CHOCOLATE LAB PUPPIES FOR SALE. Visions of cuteness run through my head.


He's 9 weeks






Shes 4 years old






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> Circumstantial evidence at best.



You're never too young, or too old, to appreciate a cool-ass car. That's just natural law.


----------



## RandyMac

First time I popped open the secondaries, I was grateful the thing was pointed in a straight line. It also removed about a 1000 miles off the rears.


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> First time I popped open the secondaries, I was grateful the thing was pointed in a straight line. It also removed about a 1000 miles off the rears.



There's STILL no replacement for displacement!


----------



## RandyMac

madhatte said:


> There's STILL no replacement for displacement!







gained 89 cubes, two cylinders and 160 additional horsepower.
Needs tidied up.


----------



## madhatte

I've had a lot of fun over the years wrenchin' on smallblock Fords. That's not the untidiest I've seen, by far.


----------



## Samlock

Butch Lee sounds like a perfect name for a sheriff.


----------



## Gologit

Today's descriptive process is about log truck drivers. Bless 'em all. I'm not griping, just describing. 

Drivers who show up an hour late several times in a row and expect to go to the head of the line anyway. This causes arguments with the other drivers who complain bitterly to the loader and expect him to mediate the dispute. The loader does...but he doesn't like it. The late driver didn't think much of it either.

Drivers who show up early and try to weasel an earlier loader time than assigned. See above. We don't allow the drivers to hit each other. Some times I wish we did.

Truck drivers who have to be reminded every load, for six loads in a row, to pull their bunk pins before they leave the landing. When the loader gets disgusted and forgets to remind them on the seventh load they get bunk bound in the first switchback and block the road and we have to send a man with a torch up there to cut them loose. The driver then complains when the torch man burns the pins and pin holders completely off the bunks and throws them over the bank.

Truck drivers who throw only a landing wrapper on a high peaked load and then try to drive clear out to the pavement before they finish tying down. When the load ***** out they immediately call for a loader to get up there and put the load back together again. If they're not blocking the road they'll have to wait until the loader has time. That may be a while. 

Drivers who stretch the reach out so far that bunking 32's becomes an exercise in precise inch measurements, minimum legal bunk edge distance and depth perception. Especially when you're loading the first round in the dark. 
These are the same guys that never clean the bunk trough and balk when you want them to put a strip chain on a load of sugar pine. They're in a hurry but they'll spend more time arguing about it than it takes to put it on. It's still the driver's choice but if they strip out of the load they're going to sit awhile unless they have the road blocked. The other drivers get to call him names then...none of them are complimentary.

Drivers who don't charge the dolly brakes until they're loaded and ready to pull out. These are the same guys who always have a very slow compressor. No problem, the loader probably needs time to climb down and take a piss anyway. And get a cup of coffee. And some donettos. And listening to the other drivers have religious moments about the delay...as in "Jesus Christ, my kid has a bicycle pump that puts out more air than that". Or "Goddammit, charge your trailer while you're loading so you don't hold everybody up". Stuff like that.

The majority of the drivers are fine. They show up on time, don't break things, tie down tight and right, and keep their equipment up. They even bring the loader donuts occasionally.
The ones like I described above make you appreciate the good ones.

And yeah, I'm running loader again. Temporarily.


----------



## SliverPicker

1270d said:


> Washed out on a root on my dirtbike. Broke the back off of the wrist socket thingy, john probably knows what it is.
> 
> I can still grind chain for sure. Be another learning curve in the harvester though.



Sorry man. That sucks,

Suomalainen sisu.


----------



## northmanlogging

I spent the day watching 2 legged ants move heavy things... when I made suggestions they made noises like I didn't know what I was talking about... in the end a 2 hour project took the better part of a 10 hour shift. I didn't help...


----------



## treeslayer2003

the state has finely seen fit to let me start a job............get out the way squirrels!


----------



## 1270d

Into one of these now. Super comfortable with excellent ROM for now. Best part is I'll be back to work Tuesday.


----------



## SliverPicker

I have one of those that I could have lent you. Congrats!


----------



## northmanlogging

Its been 6-7 weeks since I killed a tree... all this time I've been playing arborist and force feeding a chipper...

That was remedied today! finally on to the next project and I can go back to logging and not playing with twigs.


----------



## SliverPicker

26 degrees this morning.....


----------



## 1270d

That sounds nice. Whatever the temp is here, its optimal for mosquitoes breeding.


----------



## Gologit

1270d said:


> That sounds nice. Whatever the temp is here, its optimal for mosquitoes breeding.



How's the arm?


----------



## 1270d

healing up nice, thanks. Sutures out for a week now. Going to therapy to help get full ROM. Ive been able to work for a couple of weeks now in the harvester, no hand falling allowed though. Next monday is the final xray/checkup, hoping for an a-ok from the doc.


----------



## northmanlogging

Whatever happened to 6-20 weeks being laid up? Or do I just break more stuff then the average dude


----------



## 1270d

northmanlogging said:


> Whatever happened to 6-20 weeks being laid up? Or do I just break more stuff then the average dude



Guess I got lucky. 

Taking a quick coffee break on the dark shift. 4pm to 2am


----------



## northmanlogging

I left the house at 6 am, put in my usual 10-12 hours, got home ate some wabbit and then left to make a run with the dump truck... its 10:11pm now... my boots are still on... and I get to do it over again tomorrow...


----------



## SliverPicker

northmanlogging said:


> Whatever happened to 6-20 weeks being laid up? Or do I just break more stuff then the average dude


Maybe you just break stuff properly?


----------



## 2dogs

I finished off yesterday chipping a bunch of rotten tanoak and redwood and man do I have a sore throat. I hardly slept last night and I am trying to take a nap right now.


----------



## 2dogs

Gologit said:


> Today's descriptive process is about log truck drivers. Bless 'em all. I'm not griping, just describing.
> 
> Drivers who show up an hour late several times in a row and expect to go to the head of the line anyway. This causes arguments with the other drivers who complain bitterly to the loader and expect him to mediate the dispute. The loader does...but he doesn't like it. The late driver didn't think much of it either.
> 
> Drivers who show up early and try to weasel an earlier loader time than assigned. See above. We don't allow the drivers to hit each other. Some times I wish we did.
> 
> Truck drivers who have to be reminded every load, for six loads in a row, to pull their bunk pins before they leave the landing. When the loader gets disgusted and forgets to remind them on the seventh load they get bunk bound in the first switchback and block the road and we have to send a man with a torch up there to cut them loose. The driver then complains when the torch man burns the pins and pin holders completely off the bunks and throws them over the bank.
> 
> Truck drivers who throw only a landing wrapper on a high peaked load and then try to drive clear out to the pavement before they finish tying down. When the load ***** out they immediately call for a loader to get up there and put the load back together again. If they're not blocking the road they'll have to wait until the loader has time. That may be a while.
> 
> Drivers who stretch the reach out so far that bunking 32's becomes an exercise in precise inch measurements, minimum legal bunk edge distance and depth perception. Especially when you're loading the first round in the dark.
> These are the same guys that never clean the bunk trough and balk when you want them to put a strip chain on a load of sugar pine. They're in a hurry but they'll spend more time arguing about it than it takes to put it on. It's still the driver's choice but if they strip out of the load they're going to sit awhile unless they have the road blocked. The other drivers get to call him names then...none of them are complimentary.
> 
> Drivers who don't charge the dolly brakes until they're loaded and ready to pull out. These are the same guys who always have a very slow compressor. No problem, the loader probably needs time to climb down and take a piss anyway. And get a cup of coffee. And some donettos. And listening to the other drivers have religious moments about the delay...as in "Jesus Christ, my kid has a bicycle pump that puts out more air than that". Or "Goddammit, charge your trailer while you're loading so you don't hold everybody up". Stuff like that.
> 
> The majority of the drivers are fine. They show up on time, don't break things, tie down tight and right, and keep their equipment up. They even bring the loader donuts occasionally.
> The ones like I described above make you appreciate the good ones.
> 
> And yeah, I'm running loader again. Temporarily.



Last Friday I saw the tallest load of redwood I have ever seen. It was a full 4' higher that I am used to seeing and yep all the logs were full length. I can't imagine what the loader was thinking. I have never driven log truck, only hauled fertilizer, but this dude must have been at least 5k over weight. He probably had a 30-40 mile trip to the mill.


----------



## Cedarkerf

I freaking love the fire wood guys telling guys 2 inches of bar lenght will make their saw so much better they sa its a speed thing LOL http://www.arboristsite.com/community/forums/chainsaw.9/


----------



## northmanlogging

Runned over a saw, poked a hole in a skidder tire, lost my smell phone, dinged a fender on the dump truck... its 10:30 and I just got home. Try again tomorrow!


----------



## slowp

Decided to go for a hike in the woods yesterday. Gave the Used Dog the maximum dose of arthritis drugs. Finger got smooshed by his enthusiasm in downing the pill filled puparoni. Owie.

Dressed in summery clothes because the trail is wide and like a highway. Wore fru fru "trail runners", as if I run, and started moseying along. Got to an area with lots of flagging strung out to keep us from falling in? The trail was washed out. Tried to get across but rocks were slick as mucus, brush was not good for attire of summery clothes, and there already was one big search and rescue going on for the weekend to the north. I turned back. By the way, the trees in this area will make you slobber.
They are tall and straight and well cared for second growth. 

We went up a less used and steeper trail. Somebody had walked it with a small saw and had cut the limbs and stobs off the blowdowns so femoral arteries would be safe.
We climbed up and got to the waterfall. The sign said Waterfall. It was purdy. I got out the camera, turned it on, and BATTERIES EXHAUSTED read on the screen and it shut off. 

Hmmm. The energy used to proclaim that the batteries are tired could be used for one shot? I turned around as this was also a test run for The Used Dog. He passed.
We drove up the valley to get cherries--Rainiers for me to munch on.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Ms. Patty, what exactly did they give tud for arthiritis? it helps him pretty good? mine is 14 and not doin to well.......his brother had to be put down last week.....he just couldn't get up any more and was in pain.


----------



## slowp

He's taking generic rymadyl. Here's a link.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carprofen 

The stuff has been around for a while. My last dog was taking it when her arthritis got bad. It won't cure them, but it helps with the pain. He's been very frisky the last few days and his old happy self again. 

Some vets want to check their liver function once a year. I doubt they will on such an old dog.


----------



## 2dogs

My dog and I both need that drug.


----------



## slowp

Can a pair of cheap dark blue coveralls make you smarter?

I have read, and reread, and watched videos, and couldn't decipher a kayak building step. Today, I looked at the instruction book whilst wearing the coveralls, and it clearly said "wrong side up". 
Must wear them more. 

I made it to the house between smites.


----------



## Red Elm

If you all dont mind I think ill hang out over here for the forseeable future. Those lugnuts on the other side that think a 50cc saw is big are testing my last nerve. Our oldest daughter is always saying you cant fix stupid, well apparently you can't fix being a puss either.


----------



## HuskStihl

Red Elm said:


> If you all dont mind I think ill hang out over here for the forseeable future. Those lugnuts on the other side that think a 50cc saw is big are testing my last nerve. Our oldest daughter is always saying you cant fix stupid, well apparently you can't fix being a puss either.


Just how much of a puss do I have to be to worry about my status on the F&L forum? I'm afraid of the dentist and put a decomp on my 288 'cause it hurt my elbow to start. I hope that's still acceptable over here. I agree that talking about 38cc saws is pretty boring tho


----------



## treeslayer2003

you scared of the dentist?????????? yer a doc


----------



## Red Elm

I havent had to have a tooth bored in over 35 years but the sound of those drills still sets my teeth to hurting. I dont think anyone that runs a 288 regularly has to worry about their puss status .


----------



## Eccentric

Red Elm said:


> I havent had to have a tooth bored in over 35 years but the sound of those drills still sets my teeth to hurting. I dont think anyone that runs a 288 regularly has to worry about their puss status .



Jon's wife starts it for him however......


----------



## slowp

We aren't even a town. The first dentist I went to that didn't hurt was here. He retired a year or so ago. I feared we were lost. A young one actually moved here and he doesn't hurt much either. He did do a torture system on me trying to figure out what tooth was killing me. There was no other way. I've been to terrible dentists but there are some really good ones out there. 

The root canal guy made me watch him working on my tortured tooth. He had a TV screen on the ceiling. I didn't want to watch. Root canals don't hurt either--physically. They really hurt the wallet. I've got several nice kayaks in my mouth.


----------



## madhatte

Ran the Pack Test today. It's always good to have that out of the way for the year. Got a damned blister. Not happy about that.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> Ran the Pack Test today. It's always good to have that out of the way for the year. Got a damned blister. Not happy about that.


Don't you mean "walked"? LOL

I got a wicked blister during mine, but I did it to myself, wearing brand new boots. I have two nice pieces of mole skin in my pick fir getting called out.


----------



## madhatte

With these stumpy little legs, it might as well be a run. 29" inseam means I have to move my feet half again faster than you yokels with 34"+ legs.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> With these stumpy little legs, it might as well be a run. 29" inseam means I have to move my feet half again faster than you yokels with 34"+ legs.


They used a 7' tall NBA player to set that tests criteria. . . It's silly.


----------



## SliverPicker

Took a tour of a "ranch" the other day. The word was they wanted 125 acres logged. NOT! 1700 +/- acres. No boundaries marked. No acreage for certain. Not one stitch of flagging anywhere. Don't know what they want for slash treatment. Not sure of most of the property lines. NO knowledge whatsoever of forestry or logging. The "project manager" points at a patch of timber that averages 80% slope and says "Every dead tree and every stick 4" and over needs to be removed from that hill." Alrighty then. What's the acreage? Where are the boundaries? When will it be ready to be logged? ....crickets.... I explained to him that what he needed was a helicopter since noone has a yarder in these parts. So I contacted a whirlybird company for him. I got on Google Earth to figure out acreage (+/- 20%) and proceeded to write him an estimate for hand falling what turned out to be 34 acres (+/- 20%). He shoots me back an email "I'm concerned that you won't have any one working for you." "I don't want this job (that isn't conceptualized or laid out yet) to take 6 months to complete." "You didn't include selling the logs or cleaning up the hill or trucking the logs or "cleaning up" after the trees are brought down by the helicopter in your bid." I wanted to inform him that I would be happy to arrange trucking and to sell the (now my) logs. I wanted to tell him I would have to let him know how much the trucking was going to be and that he could right a check directly to the trucker. I could rant for another page or so, but I'm not going to.

Holding hands is not my thing. It may be time to walk away from this one.

I need more description and less process!


----------



## madhatte

I shudder to think how much trouble that project would be. You are doing well to walk away.


----------



## SliverPicker

Yeah. I just got another email from this guy. He's looking for a landscape company that happens to own logging equipment not a logger/forester. Frustrating.

I will fall everything for him and as project manger he can figure out the rest. This is a money loser if I have ever seen one.

Thanks for the wake up call madhatte!


----------



## Gologit

SliverPicker said:


> Yeah. I just got another email from this guy. He's looking for a landscape company that happens to own logging equipment not a logger/forester. Frustrating.
> 
> I will fall everything for him and as project manger he can figure out the rest. This is a money loser if I have ever seen one.
> 
> Thanks for the wake up call madhatte!



Madhatte said it right. If the land owner doesn't really know what he wants, or if he doesn't know how to communicate what his goals are, there's no way you can do a job that will please him.


----------



## madhatte

When I hand in a sale for bid, I HAVE ALREADY DONE THESE THINGS: 1) clearly delineate sale boundaries 2) clearly delineate things within those boundaries that need protected, such as wetlands, raptor nests, and archaeological sites 3) clearly delineate specific trees to be taken, and, as necessary, specific trees NOT to be taken 4) research laws/regulations which could prevent the sale 5) contact involved stakeholders such as F&W for input regarding their needs 6) write a prescription clearly outlining goals of this entry and desired future condition of the stand 7) clearly list acceptable logging methods as part of the prescription.

EDIT: you can safely assume that it has been cruised at least twice: once to determine what's in there, and once to establish what I'm taking out. You can also safely assume that I have made detailed maps of all of this. 

If I don't do these things, the sale doesn't happen. Once the contract is written and signed, my responsibility is done, but the end condition of the stand following treatment reflects as much on my planning a it does the logger's harvest methods.


----------



## SliverPicker

Well said. 

I just put on my walking shoes. I emailed and told him I respectively choose not to bid at this time and there is far too little information to make an accurate assessment of the project. If were to proceed I would end up planning his project for him under the guise of "doing an estimate". I put in several weeks of my time for literally nothing, he rejects the price I come up with and takes all of my information to other contractors for estimates. Not happening. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.


----------



## Gologit

Gologit said:


> Madhatte said it right. If the land owner doesn't really know what he wants, or if he doesn't know how to communicate what his goals are, there's no way you can do a job that will please him.


Too many people want a job done as cheaply as possible... _cheap_ is the key word here... and done perfectly at the same time. 

From what you've said I think I'd give that whole deal a good leaving alone.


----------



## Metals406

If I had a dollar for everytime a general contractor used subs to estimate jobs, only to never use them -- I'd be a billionaire. Pretty chickenshit way to do things in my opinion.


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> Pretty chickenshit way to do things in my opinion.



100% true.


----------



## treeslayer2003

madhatte said:


> When I hand in a sale for bid, I HAVE ALREADY DONE THESE THINGS: 1) clearly delineate sale boundaries 2) clearly delineate things within those boundaries that need protected, such as wetlands, raptor nests, and archaeological sites 3) clearly delineate specific trees to be taken, and, as necessary, specific trees NOT to be taken 4) research laws/regulations which could prevent the sale 5) contact involved stakeholders such as F&W for input regarding their needs 6) write a prescription clearly outlining goals of this entry and desired future condition of the stand 7) clearly list acceptable logging methods as part of the prescription.
> 
> EDIT: you can safely assume that it has been cruised at least twice: once to determine what's in there, and once to establish what I'm taking out. You can also safely assume that I have made detailed maps of all of this.
> 
> If I don't do these things, the sale doesn't happen. Once the contract is written and signed, my responsibility is done, but the end condition of the stand following treatment reflects as much on my planning a it does the logger's harvest methods.


gawd i wish you worked over here lol...........pro foresters here leave a whole lot to be desired........... i wind up doing most it and some of what they did do i have to redo..............county guys are only ones i trust so far.


----------



## madhatte

treeslayer2003 said:


> gawd i wish you worked over here lol...........pro foresters here leave a whole lot to be desired........... i wind up doing most it and some of what they did do i have to redo..............county guys are only ones i trust so far.



Forestry is expensive, but it's worth it!


----------



## Cedarkerf

Had some visitors saturday. Thought it was a big nest that we hadnt noticed in one of our trees but an hour later the whole bunch was gone. The second pic the dry branch in the middle is what they were clumped on just a swarm passing thru.


----------



## lfnh

Nice to see that!
Got a low rent place they could stay, lol !


----------



## Westboastfaller

Cedarkerf said:


> Had some visitors saturday. Thought it was a big nest that we hadnt noticed in one of our trees but an hour later the whole bunch was gone. The second pic the dry branch in the middle is what they were clumped on just a swarm passing thru.
> 
> 
> View attachment 358533
> 
> View attachment 358534


Wow.. I've never seen that before, Is that Wa ? 
I would bet they're the Africanized bee (killer bees) Hybrid
They are known to swarm 4-5 times a season (I've heard) attacking the "western honey bees nest. AKA, Italian/European honey bee which they were bread from along with the Iberian and the African honey bee in 1950 in Brazil .
They escaped and have been in North America since'85


----------



## northmanlogging

Too cold for africanized bees in warshington, they need it pretty warm year round.

More likely just a hobby hive that got loose, happens all the time. Not like a puppy that whines when it don't like the living conditions, bees will pack up and leave.


----------



## slowp

Once again, I have drugged up to prepare for this morning's clearcutting of grass and weeds. I did that on Monday and broke down. I ran the weedwhacker into the lesser known saw shop in Chehalis. Monday seemed to be a day of broke down weedwhackers for them. Landscape folks with pickups full of equipment were dropping them off like mad. I left to go shopping, which was hell. I felt skinny in Walmart and couldn't get down the veggie aisle so I actually asked a woman to throw me a garlic and she did.
Teamwork amongst strangers!

The sawshop gave me a call, as usual, much earlier than predicted. We'll soon see if they fixed it. Apparently the model I have has become known for having ignition problems, just like their newer saw 461? did.


----------



## Samlock

Last night someone put my chain backwards.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Sam, LOL
ms. P i hadn't herd that about 461s..........bad coils perhaps

busted a coolant hose on the skidder......be here in the morning. it was cloudy n cool too...........87 lol.


----------



## slowp

The weedwhacker ran, but still shut itself off. It may have to go back in. I am done for a while...sneeze cough.

I hope I have not revealed the trees for the deer to more easily see and eat. Most of the trees are netted, spruced and tubed.


----------



## northmanlogging

Benadryl has become my friend during the summer months...

So far no issues with any of my 461s other then the whole running em over thing...


----------



## SliverPicker

The coil on my 460 lasted right around 2 weeks before cooking itself.


----------



## slowp

Ruh roh!
http://www.theolympian.com/2014/07/...trikes-five-overpasses.html?sp=/99/224/&ihp=1


----------



## Samlock

slowp said:


> Ruh roh!
> http://www.theolympian.com/2014/07/...trikes-five-overpasses.html?sp=/99/224/&ihp=1



Well, they say: "Never look back."


----------



## madhatte

That's my neck of the woods. Glad I avoided the traffic. Fridays always suck around here.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> That's my neck of the woods. Glad I avoided the traffic. Fridays always suck around here.


 
I got caught in something yesterday afternoon going north. I exited at the LaBree road but so did everybody else. I ended up canceling an errand. In Centralia!


----------



## Westboastfaller

[


SliverPicker said:


> The "project manager" points at a patch of timber that averages 80% slope


 1: 1.25 ratio about 39°
Its rise 'over' run but when the rise is over the run...
I run.. no I don't, but I have rolled and bounced a few times.

I agree, it sounds like a dog!


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> Ruh roh!
> http://www.theolympian.com/2014/07/...trikes-five-overpasses.html?sp=/99/224/&ihp=1


eek gods... I almost had to go through there on friday too...


----------



## slowp

The traffic jam I was in was from another wreck going north. It is the weekend of the STP Seattle To Portland bike thing so 10,000 bicycle riders and their support folks will be on the secondary roads and then on the interstate tomorrow going home. Lots of bikes on cars on Friday heading north.


----------



## SliverPicker

Westboastfaller said:


> [
> 1: 1.25 ratio about 39°
> Its rise 'over' run but when the rise is over the run...
> I run.. no I don't, but I have rolled and bounced a few times.
> 
> I agree, it sounds like a dog!


That's a mouthful, but right on the button!


----------



## SliverPicker

I saw traffic here once. At least someone said it was traffic. I think it was a riding mower and a quad (at the same time). With a population of 204 and all the streets being dirt "traffic" wasn't in my vocabulary until I read the last few posts.


----------



## slowp

Don't move here.


----------



## SliverPicker




----------



## Samlock

SliverPicker said:


> I saw traffic here once. At least someone said it was traffic. I think it was a riding mower and a quad (at the same time). With a population of 204 and all the streets being dirt "traffic" wasn't in my vocabulary until I read the last few posts.



Reminds me of taking Dutch guests to the neighboring municipal called Ilomantsi. As the Netherlanders were zipping beers in a local bar and contemplating an old geezer slowly buzzing with a moped down the main street of the central village, left arm raised as a salute - no other vehicles, people, anything - they asked, was this place _always _like this? A native guy answered, no, not always. It should calm down right after the high season.


----------



## SliverPicker

Do locals there consider themselves Russian or Finnish?


----------



## 1270d

Sam what town in Karelia are you from?


----------



## Samlock

1270d said:


> Sam what town in Karelia are you from?



Joensuu. But you already know that.

Picker: Finnish


----------



## SliverPicker

That's good news. I have wondered that for a while now.


----------



## Gologit

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClic...1=39.2192&textField2=-121.06&e=0#.U8RVGvldWNZ





Hoot-owl...or as my four year old grandson called it, "Granpa, you goin' on Hot Owl this week?"


----------



## madhatte

"Hot-Owl" is great.


----------



## 2dogs

It is 84% RH at 19:00. Cool and overcast all day.


----------



## SliverPicker

Gologit said:


> http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Grass Valley&state=CA&site=STO&textField1=39.2192&textField2=-121.06&e=0#.U8RVGvldWNZ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hoot-owl...or as my four year old grandson called it, "Granpa, you goin' on Hot Owl this week?"



...but at 23% its a dry heat...right? Hoot owl isn't necessary at only 90 is it? 

Keep in mind some years here it doesn't break 82 so I am talking out my hind end (again).


----------



## treeslayer2003

wow..........i am crispy and melted.........82 sounds good


----------



## northmanlogging

hoot owling is when the FS/dnr shuts the woods down at 11am or sometimes 1pm, No machinery after X hour, means the big guys get to start logging at like 2 in the morning or earlier.

Puts a real bind on the fallers, since they still have to wait around for daylight

Me... Hel I'm part time, so a 6 hour day is the norm anyway... I'll probably still start early all this week though, got a fam reunion thing sat, and that's the only day I have a climber for some danger trees...


----------



## treeslayer2003

i'm headed home by 1 when its this hot any way


----------



## Gologit

SliverPicker said:


> ...but at 23% its a dry heat...right? Hoot owl isn't necessary at only 90 is it?
> 
> Keep in mind some years here it doesn't break 82 so I am talking out my hind end (again).


 

Ever log in the Sierras? CalFire, on this particular job, makes the rules. It's hot, it's dry, and nobody wants to take any chances. Better to shut it down than to burn it down.


----------



## treeslayer2003

somtimes we forget the fire danger out there Bob....sorry.........never happens here


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> somtimes we forget the fire danger out there Bob....sorry.........never happens here




True, but we forget that other people _don't_ have the fire problems we do and this time of the year we're all kind of spring-loaded on the subject. We're jumpy and we have reason to be but that's no excuse for me to be short with people about the way things are. 
We got clobbered pretty bad last year and logging burnt timber is a miserable way to make a dollar. Short term it creates jobs. Long term...we're salvaging trees that, if not for the fire, would have been left to grow.

It's just another of God's little door prizes for living in an otherwise really good part of the country.


----------



## northmanlogging

speaking of owls... been seeing a few brownish ones with white dots all over them again

one was in a ball on the road, 15 miles from old growth...

The other was in a maple tree, one an island that had been clear cut in the 1800's and cut over several times since...

Still have never seen one in old growth

Where is owl anyway?


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Where is owl anyway?



Scott? Probably working. He doesn't spend much time sitting down.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> speaking of owls... been seeing a few brownish ones with white dots all over them again
> 
> one was in a ball on the road, 15 miles from old growth...
> 
> The other was in a maple tree, one an island that had been clear cut in the 1800's and cut over several times since...
> 
> Still have never seen one in old growth
> 
> Where is owl anyway?


pft don't tell um, they liable to shut ya down..........


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> Scott? Probably working. He doesn't spend much time sitting down.


you mean spotted owl? that guy tried to explain directional falling to me when i first got here. hes a good dude, hope he is doing well.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> you mean spotted owl? that guy tried to explain directional falling to me when i first got here. hes a good dude, hope he is doing well.


Ok Mike, here's how directional falling works. I nibble at a tree with way too much saw and "blade" for my ability level until it falls in the direction it wanted to go in the first place. Simple.


----------



## SliverPicker

HS, I have the distinct feeling that you understate (read: are too humble) as a habit (not a bad thing).

I must confess that I too have NEVER seen one of those cute little owls in old growth. True story.


----------



## SliverPicker

OK the water heater in my 18' 1973 Coachmen "home during the logging season" needs work. Gotta git the jet for the propane water heater cleared out so I don't have to go another year without a shower....... SO... no more "Descriptive" thread for this misplaced Finlander for tonight. Gotta be on the road by 3am.

Be safe youz guyz and don't cut anything that bleeds!


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> pft don't tell um, they liable to shut ya down..........




psst, they'ed have to admit they live in second growth to do that...


----------



## Cedarkerf

northmanlogging said:


> psst, they'ed have to admit they live in second growth to do that...


Probably ready to say second growth is secondary primary habitat and shut it all down


----------



## treeslayer2003

i'll trade you two blue herons for one owl.


----------



## SliverPicker

Shypokes with brussel sprouts and gravy. Yum.....


----------



## northmanlogging

One largish ceder, 3 tops, next to a house, power lines run under the branches, house on the left, cabin on the right, transformer and main power lines behind and to the right, across a paved driveway, back leaning and very limb heavy towards the power lines... also leaning a little towards the house

Hung a swing line and a pull line in her, but the pull line is just braided nylon since someone tried to saw through my other extension line...

Anyway, face her up, toss a little soft dutch and some Sis action for luck, with a tapered semi block face (totally on purpose really...) Start my back cut, still don't have enough bar even with the 42" on the 066, no big deal kinda the norm lately, start a wedge, try to start 2nd wedge for luck... by now she's sat back a little bit so the second wedge is tough to start, but not impossible, luckily its big enough that the saw isn't stuck start the third wedge, and the forth, I've only got five on me... luckily the crummy is only 20' away, go grab more, 2-14'a and the big banana wedge... still not enough... and the rope ain't got the stones to pull her...

So to the cummy again and grab the jack, I've only got the one jack today... ****...

Get the jack started, its starting to work kinda, but I still need to beat wedges to take enough preassure off the jack so I can even pump the damn thing. By now I have 3 stacks of 2 wedges, and 2 solo wedges closer to the hinge, and I'm running out of smacking room on the stacked wedges, I'm not real sure how much more lift I have with the jack, I got 2 people asking me if I need more wedges (I don't I collect them like loose change)... and the ****ing thing is still sky bound, my adrenaline is about to run low, I'm hungover from last nights episode of make me the smallest drink ever... only give me the little one and the grande...

Give the jack another pump or two pull the two solo wedges, add a third to that pile and start them, tighten everything up and goose the throttle a bit...

boom huh? BOOM, oh wait I remember that sound its a good sound... CRACKKK! is that movement... it is it is!!!

1 hour 8 wedges, a jack, a skidder, a 5 pound collins, and one overweight beardy guy with a now horrible hangover

Tree broke all to Hel since I had a nice row of tight knit stumps and a landing to cross, but no other damage...

Then run home scrub the pitch out of my beard and go to a family reunion...


----------



## HuskStihl

Tapered semi-block face is exactly correct for that situation! Way to go Northy. Next time u'r in that situation, just call me or Handsome Mike, and either of us will FedEx you a stumpy sledge. Problem solved.


----------



## HuskStihl

It would be cool to live in an area where random passer-by's carry wedges with them.


----------



## slowp

HuskStihl said:


> It would be cool to live in an area where random passer-by's carry wedges with them.


 
I bet many do, but don't move here.


----------



## northmanlogging

home owner and my climber guy... home owner used to log when he was younger


----------



## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> I bet many do, but don't move here.


Its still 50 and raining hopefully the rain will stop by August


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> It would be cool to live in an area where random passer-by's carry wedges with them.


It's not like that everywhere ? Next you are gonna tell me you can't get bar oil at the gas pumps when you fuel up ..........


----------



## slowp

Trx250r180 said:


> It's not like that everywhere ? Next you are gonna tell me you can't get bar oil at the gas pumps when you fuel up ..........


 
Not quite, but before the owl crash, you could get bar oil at one of the gas stations here. They sold it in bulk, too.


----------



## Trx250r180

slowp said:


> Not quite, but before the owl crash, you could get bar oil at one of the gas stations here. They sold it in bulk, too.



Masco card locks here have 2 hydrolic oils ,bar oil and 15-40 at the pumps ,very handy when service the equipment ,it is on it's own island ,the red dyed off road diesel is at the reg fuel islands


----------



## 1270d

i would hate to see how fast the dollars climb if you pumped hydraulic oil from a regular gas type pump


----------



## 2dogs

I took a dead limb on the hardhat yesterday. It wasn't very big but big enough to dent my Mac-T. It was also amazingly loud considering I had ear plugs in and the saw was running. I've been considering going back to a Skull Bucket as there are some new ones on ebay and elsewhere.

Samlock I have a full brim Mac-T waiting to send to you. Do you still want it?


----------



## treeslayer2003

why does it take all week to get a dam tire tube here? uuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhgggggggg


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> why does it take all week to get a dam tire tube here? uuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhgggggggg


What has Brown done for you? 

LAWL


----------



## pigpen60

left a stripe in my shorts?


----------



## nandoz

Monday morning I had to change a trailer tire on a semi first thing, no big deal. Do those all the time. The trailer had 32,000lbs of rendered hog guts in it. It was 92 and humid. I hate hot weather.


----------



## madhatte

Ya haul 16 tons, and whaddya get?


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> Ya haul 16 tons, and whaddya get?


Another day older and deeper in debt?


----------



## northmanlogging

Saint peter don't you call cause I can't go


----------



## Gologit

I owe my soul to the company store.


----------



## nandoz

I got a fist of iron and a fist steel, if the first one don't get ya then the next one will.


----------



## HuskStihl

Oh, girls just want to have fun.....


----------



## slowp

Mama hated diesels so bad.
I guess I knew it was something to do with dad.


----------



## Gologit

Me and Earl was haulin' chickens

on a flatbed out of Wiggins


----------



## Gologit

Sheesh, nobody knows that one? Substitute logs for chickens and it fits right in.


----------



## rwoods

New one to me, but I enjoyed it. Ron


----------



## AKDoug

New to you? I've been singing that song for 40 years


----------



## AKDoug

ok... only 39 years...


----------



## rwoods

This southerner remembers this WC trucking song:  Ron


----------



## 1270d

Big Joe and his mack are all time favorites of mine


----------



## madhatte

As I recall, "Big Joe & Phantom 309" was originally a Red Sovine tune. Tom Waits covered it, too.


----------



## slowp




----------



## treeslayer2003

oh gawd, that is a sad one.


----------



## slowp

Another sad tune.


----------



## slowp

Previously mentioned


----------



## nandoz

CW is from Iowa. He's pretty big down in this corner of the state.


----------



## SliverPicker

I threw my sleeping bag down on the ground on Wolf Crick Pass a few years ago while traveling from Salida to Durango at about 3 am only to wake up about an hour later to a lion yelling its head off a short distance away. The next noise it made made it clear that it was getting closer. I retrieved my dog who was tied a nearby. She was so scared she was shaking like she was trying to a pass a half- opened package of razor blades through her system. She was shuddering! Needless to say her and I both spent the rest of night in the cab of the truck. Good times.

...but them chickens was stacked to 13-9......


----------



## 1270d

Like gas through a funnel and eggs through a hen


----------



## 1270d

Like reinforced concrete now I figure.


----------



## HuskStihl

slowp said:


> Another sad tune.


Kitty come home


----------



## lfnh

1270d said:


> Like reinforced concrete now I figure.


 
Heck of an improvement over that first set of pics. No need to proof test it, lol.


----------



## madhatte

Colle's Facture. I have a matching set of X-rays.


----------



## 1270d

madhatte said:


> Colle's Facture. I have a matching set of X-rays.


They said its a very common break


----------



## northmanlogging

Hows it healing so far? Any loss of movement?


----------



## madhatte

1270d said:


> They said its a very common break



A common one, and an unpleasant one.


----------



## 1270d

northmanlogging said:


> Hows it healing so far? Any loss of movement?


the PA said it was healed up nice but would take up to a year to be fully healed. 90 % motion back. still a bit weaker than the left hand but its coming around. the scar tissue tends to snag on stuff when turning wrenches in tight spots.


----------



## slowp

Broke down again! Hit an unknown rock with the mower. A glacier apparently must've come through that area of the yard between mowings. I will need to replace the blade before I can skid any logs.


----------



## northmanlogging

1270d said:


> the PA said it was healed up nice but would take up to a year to be fully healed. 90 % motion back. still a bit weaker than the left hand but its coming around. the scar tissue tends to snag on stuff when turning wrenches in tight spots.



Keep using it you'll get most of the movement back.

I've wondered if getting too much grease in a healing cut could leave a Tattoo looking thing... Seems more like tearing the damned things open all the time just make a big ugly scar... 

Speaking of annoying things, looks like one of those screws peeks through the other side, could be problematic down the road... also any funny tingling, nerve damage etc.


----------



## 1270d

I dont think greasing cuts stains. If it did my hands would be all sorts of strange colors. But the grease we used forever is pink, so it probably blends in with my soft pink hands. 
There is a little bit of numbness on the heel of my palm but it is supposed to be from the incision. Its almost gone now. 
The doc says the screws that are through the other side will have a small bit of bone form over the end of them.


----------



## SliverPicker

There's two kinds of dirtbikers, 1270. Them's that been down and them's that's goin' down. Glad to hear you're healing up on shedule.

What bike do you ride?


----------



## 1270d

i ride a gas gas 300. How've you been sliver? where you workin?


----------



## SliverPicker

I've been good. Been working in an evil patch of blown down beetle killed woodPecker poles near Parshall at 8995 feet. Winter's coming.


You should come out during break up next spring with your bike. I'll show you around.


----------



## 1270d

Kids are in school now so I think this past spring was the last of the long breakup trips. Next time I drive through I'll get in touch. I'd like to see more of that area. 

Be safe in that blow down wood. Eyes on the bind


----------



## Cedarkerf

Jani and I did a little nature hike (8 miles 2100 foot elevation gain) up at Mount Rainier these critters are getting much more comman


----------



## northmanlogging

Wed: werk 10 hrs then pick up dump truck home at 7, 

Thur: meet arborist climber dude so he can fill said truck with chips... after work... (probably home by 9), And I'll probably get roped into feeding said chipper... 

Fri: deliver a load of rock in morning and pick up crummy, then home to make an attempt at filling the wood shed, then rebuild a cut off saw and finish frankenstiening the fuel tank for the welder, plus its date night with the war Dept... and return splitter to my parents... 

Sat: meet my unkle 17 miles in the sticks and 60 mi from home to take a look at how the Hel I'm supposed to get his dozer from where its sat for 7 years back to his house, then back 45 miles the other direction for a company picnic for the straight job... maybe home around 10 if I don't get to drunk...

Sun: Somehow load said welder in the crummy and traipse on over to where the equipment trailer is parked and make an attempt to fix the stuff I broke trying haul 5' dia butt cutts on it... then if I'm lucky... load backhoe from said location and bring it home for some work around the neighborhood

So technically I have the weekend off from logging, technically...


----------



## northmanlogging

So I got me one of them TS 400's well a couple of em, basket cases...

Anyway get one of em run'n (piston cylinder, bearings and seals) put it mostly back together and fire it up, all good... just need to attach the business end, its only 3 bolts...

several weeks go by...

Get that done, go to fire it up, spits on the first pull, which is an awesome sign considering I haven't even touched the carb yet. Second pull the pull rope gives up...
Thats ok I have a spare... spare don't work(stupid elasto start)... steal pull handle from some briggs thing (gypo yarder), pull the knot through several times... each time having to tear it apart rewind spring... finally just added a spare bolt to the knot. Then the spring decides it hates my guts... 1 hour later, after reshaping the end of the spring (twice) I think I finally got it to hold together... at least I started it and tried to light the yard on fire anyway...


----------



## HuskStihl

Ugh. I hate recoil assemblies


----------



## SliverPicker

Tree Farmer transfer case decides to drip oil directly on the brake drum. The brand new F/R shift shaft seal lasted exactly 79.3 hours. Result: no brakes. In the process of mashing the snot out of the pedal to try to get the well oiled brake shoes to hold I managed to pop a brake line or fitting. DOT 3 everywhere. Out comes the driveline, brake drum, slave cylinder and last 18" of brake line, I mean BREAK line. At least its still summer in my head even if the leaves are changing already. At least I'm not lying in an oily puddle at -35 or -45 degrees. Winter's comin'.


----------



## northmanlogging

Spent part of the day mig, JB, and brazing the fuel tank on my stick welder... it had fuel in it for some of the brazing... burn burn, poof... no eyebrows...


----------



## Samlock

northmanlogging said:


> burn burn, poof... no eyebrows...



Trendsetter.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Spent part of the day mig, JB, and brazing the fuel tank on my stick welder... it had fuel in it for some of the brazing... burn burn, poof... no eyebrows...


 
Beard? Mustache?


----------



## Trx250r180

Gologit said:


> Beard? Mustache?


Not any more ............


----------



## 1270d

going for the short, tight curl look. smells funny though


----------



## Gologit

1270d said:


> going for the short, tight curl look. smells funny though



Kinda like a fire in a barber shop?


----------



## northmanlogging

nah still have most of a beard... not sure if I'll ever have hair on my hands and fingers though...

Almost got the tank to take off like a rocket once, not sure how but it sounded cool! Shot flames like 4-5' and made an awesome wooshing noise...

For the record don't try any of this **** at home, I'm an underpaid non professional, that has spent entirely too much time in various emergency rooms...


----------



## 1270d

Gologit said:


> Kinda like a fire in a barber shop?


yup

One of my cousins was welding something in the back of his dad's shop. everyone heard a bunch of banging, then silence. banging, crash, silence. Turned out he was welding on a gas tank set up on saw horses. the thing blew and fell off of the horses, so he just picks it up and starts in at it again. boom! on the floor. persistent rascal anyway.


----------



## SliverPicker

Sounds like about a dozen Yooper Finns I happen to know....


----------



## slowp

Wouldn't the correct terminology be dem yooper finlanders?


----------



## paccity

was just driving down the road they said, then all the sudden it quit going they said. ...... b.s. i said.


----------



## RandyMac

abrupt hookup?


----------



## SliverPicker

slowp said:


> Wouldn't the correct terminology be dem yooper finlanders?



You are correct and I resemble that remark.


----------



## SliverPicker

I have a friend who moved here from Finland (Lapland) about 5 years ago. She had never heard the term "Finlander" until she met me. I thought that was pretty interesting. I guess over there they are just plain Suomalainens. Who knew?


----------



## Samlock

Since she's from Lapland, I bet it never came to her she's being a Finlander, since she's always been called a Lappalainen or just a plain good old Heinäkenkä.


----------



## SliverPicker

I never thought of it that way, but I bet you are right. What is Heinakenka? I've not heard that term and I can't translate it.


----------



## Samlock

"Heinä" = hay, "kenkä" = shoe.

The Laplanders stuff their shoes with a special kind of sedge called "kenkäheinä" in order to keep the feet warm in winter.

That's not a very nice way to call them. On the other hand, Laplanders are calling the rest of us as "Lantalaiset" = Dung people


----------



## 1270d

I'll try that last one out tomorrow at breakfast with the crew. Theres at least one that will understand.


----------



## Metals406

My brother-in-law is from Minnesota.

I'm gonna start calling him "Hay shoe". LOL


----------



## Samlock

Wasps are crazy this year. I guess they're hungry because there's no flowers left. They're everywhere on you - in your pants, under the shirt and helmet, crawling on your goggle lens... inner side. They won't sting unless you scratch or pad on them. Itching sensation makes you insane. I've had more stings last week than the rest of the summer when they still had their nests to run across.


----------



## treeslayer2003

when you say wasps, do you mean yellow jackets? cuz they are POed here..........i guess cuz its dry.


----------



## 1270d

Its dry there?? Certainly not here. More wood piled on roads the trucks can't access than we like that's for sure.


----------



## treeslayer2003

its really dry right around me for a few miles.........we missed alot of rain that just went around us. plus this hot weather has really dryed up what moisture we had.


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> its really dry right around me for a few miles.........we missed alot of rain that just went around us. plus this hot weather has really dryed up what moisture we had.


You should invest in a rain dance suit.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i don't want no rain really..........we just moved in a low hole i been waitin to cut for 3 years..........pray for drought lol.


----------



## 1270d

I could stand for a little bit of drought, maybe two weeks worth. We probably 16-1800 tons behind on hauling. New job is on good hard road, should last till freeze up.


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> i don't want no rain really..........we just moved in a low hole i been waitin to cut for 3 years..........pray for drought lol.


Hahaha!


----------



## bitzer

My lawn still looks like its May or early June. It should be brown and crispy right now. Not good for logging this year. Mosquitos are horrible too. Usually they are done around the 4th of July.


----------



## northmanlogging

people have been whining about it being super hot this year... and oh so dry? I seem to remember not to many years ago sweating next to the gyppo yarder in triple digit heat and not having rain for over 3 months, shutting down at 11am because of fire danger... this year not so much, rained every couple of weeks, fire danger was high, but not extreme and temps rarely got over 90.


----------



## SliverPicker

Samlock said:


> "Heinä" = hay, "kenkä" = shoe.
> 
> The Laplanders stuff their shoes with a special kind of sedge called "kenkäheinä" in order to keep the feet warm in winter.
> 
> That's not a very nice way to call them. On the other hand, Laplanders are calling the rest of us as "Lantalaiset" = Dung people



I thought it was something to do with feet.


----------



## SliverPicker

Mill hasn't paid me in over a month. I've been shut down for over a week and a half because of lack of operating capital. I'm out of fuel, out of time, out of patience and about out of my mind. I fear if there is no check in the box in the next two days I might find myself hopping up and down with a running 460 on a certain mill owner's desk. I don't get a check, but I get plenty of lies from this jerk.

Might be time to get a job in town. 

I'd rather cut off my own arms with a dull butter knife.


----------



## Metals406

Put a lien on the mill.


----------



## treeslayer2003

picker, that went on here when one of our mills was bout to go under........guys finely got paid but it took a while. good luck bro.


----------



## SliverPicker

I'm shut down cold. The repo man is licking his chops about now.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i can't like that picker.........do ya got any thing you could go cut on yer own for some cash flow?


----------



## SliverPicker

I've got 11 acres of pretty good wood I can do, but I have to pay to move the skidder and Timbco 80 miles and the skid at the new job is 1.1 miles. This is dried out dead softwood and I get paid by the ton. A 1+ miles skid ain't gonna cut it unless I get really desperate. If if gets bad enough I'll move just the skidder with a buddy's pick 'em up truck and cut by hand. I am going out to look at that 11 acres tomorrow morning again. I might start cutting tomorrow and bring the skidder in in a few days.


----------



## treeslayer2003

look out for your self my friend, no one else is going to.


----------



## SliverPicker

Amen.


----------



## 1270d

hope things start looking up for you soon Sliver. sounds like you're in a tough spot.


----------



## SliverPicker

Thanks. I really appreciate that. This is not my idea of a picnic for sure.

If I can find a closer landing for this new acreage I might be able to make it work. I'm gonna give the site the eye tomorrow and make a decision.

Flash flood watches until Wednesday morning. Just what I need.

The weather here and in the U.P. are so similar sometimes I can't believe it.


----------



## Gologit

Did you have any kind of contract with the mill? Whatever you wind up doing make sure they don't just ignore you. Make them pay, one way or another. Small claims court, breach of contract suit, lien against the mill, whatever. Don't just walk away from it.
If you don't get your money out of them you can always piss in their well by spreading the word about how they do business. Let the rest of the loggers know that the mill won't pay.
If the person responsible for not paying you gives you any static you can always get a little payback the old fashioned way...knuckles.


----------



## SliverPicker

This is a really small group of loggers around here. The word (whatever word, if you catch my drift) will spread like a brush fire. I wonder how many other people haven't been paid. I've been in my camper in the woods for the past month so I'm a little out of touch. I sometimes go 2 or 3 weeks without seeing anyone at this job. I like it.


----------



## Samlock

SliverPicker said:


> I've been in my camper in the woods for the past month so I'm a little out of touch. I sometimes go 2 or 3 weeks without seeing anyone at this job. I like it.



Sounds like a regular guy to me.

Bob, I don't think a Finlander knows what "walking away" really means.


----------



## SliverPicker

NEWS FLASH - I got half a mill check from the PO Box just now. Tomorrow I head back to the landing and skid what's bunched in the woods. Two trips to get my camper and job trailer out and then find someone to haul the equipment. Then it's jäähyväiset to the mill. I will go where I own the wood and can sort it for value.


----------



## Gologit

Samlock said:


> Sounds like a regular guy to me.
> 
> Bob, I don't think a Finlander knows what "walking away" really means.



You're right. I don't know any old country Finns but I grew up with second and third generation Finlanders, commercial fishermen mostly. They were tough people. Not "mean and cruel tough" but "old time tough"...you know what I mean.

Years ago there was a Finn on our crew. Choker setter. Nobody could pronounce his first name but his last name was Maki so that's what everybody called him. Good hand.
I heard the boss talking about him one day..."He moves straight at the work and never backs down from anything. I wish he had a dozen brothers". The next week we had _three _ Makis working. We gave them numbers.


----------



## HuskStihl

Houston is full of Finns from the oil industry. I play beer league hockey with a Jaako, Jarko, and a Jukka


----------



## 1270d

No jarmo or juha? I have worked with a jukka, for juha, with a pekka who spoke no english except "smoke break" and was married to laina who also spoke no English. And that wasn't even in the UP


----------



## Gologit

The Irish/Indian people demand equal time!


----------



## RandyMac

Scots take their time.


----------



## slowp

The Barbie Saw is doing it again....starting up and dying. I had to get out Old Sparkless to work on the alders. Old Sparkless + "racing" chain + small bar is scary fast in alder.


----------



## HuskStihl

Is the Barbie saw the 044? Hopefully not the Klaus Barbie Saw


----------



## treeslayer2003

ms. P is this a reacurring problem with that saw? if it is an 044, they are easy to work on........have you done the carb and lines? if so it could be a week coil.


----------



## SliverPicker

Gologit said:


> You're right. I don't know any old country Finns but I grew up with second and third generation Finlanders, commercial fishermen mostly. They were tough people. Not "mean and cruel tough" but "old time tough"...you know what I mean.
> 
> Years ago there was a Finn on our crew. Choker setter. Nobody could pronounce his first name but his last name was Maki so that's what everybody called him. Good hand.
> I heard the boss talking about him one day..."He moves straight at the work and never backs down from anything. I wish he had a dozen brothers". The next week we had _three _ Makis working. We gave them numbers.



You can buy a T-Shirt in the the U.P. that says "Upper Peninsula of Michigan land of 10,000 Makis". (something like that anyway) Lots of Makis dropped the prefixs to their names shortly after coming over from Suomi. Maki means hill.


----------



## slowp

Barbie is a 440 I got new in 2007. She did this before and I turned one of those screws a little bit. I'm thinking I need to do that again. Or try it. 

Yes, there are zillions of Makis in that country and Up Nort Wisconsin. Maki roads too. Plus there are vowel challenged names. And you can go on a three hour cruise in da lake around da islands. Or drive to an island in the winter. Or ski on da lake. Der's only one pressure crack, usually and the route is marked with old Christmas trees.
I liked da winters dere. Summers--not so good except for kayaking on da lake.


----------



## 1270d

you wouldn't have liked last winter


----------



## SliverPicker

Last winter was an old fashioned winter. 

It used to be that only one out of 4 summers was warm. The last 20 years or so it has been much warmer up there than it ever used to be.

p, did you used to live there? If so, where at?


----------



## slowp

SliverPicker said:


> Last winter was an old fashioned winter.
> 
> It used to be that only one out of 4 summers was warm. The last 20 years or so it has been much warmer up there than it ever used to be.
> 
> p, did you used to live there? If so, where at?



I took a transfer to get back into timber to Up Nort Wisconsin. I liked it except for the summer humidity. I'd never been in that kind of weather. Oh, and the ticks. They were terrible too. The logging was a bit boring--99% mechanized, no interesting problems like figuring out tailholds and landings. There was grumbling about the spacing of the rows of trees, but the planters of those trees had no idea that they'd be logged with processors and forwarders. Kayaking was good in Chequamegun Bay. Winter was not as touristy and both kinds of skiing were nearby. The house made loud popping noises at -20 degrees and utilities were expensive. I thought about closing off part of the house or getting a wood stove. Property taxes were pretty high but I heard the schools were good, the roads were taken care of, and they hired kids to take care of the flowers in the summer so taxes were put to good use. I needed to come back here due to family illness so I did. I wish Wisconsin was closer. Those folks in that area were great.


----------



## SliverPicker

I've seen you make comments about the area. Now I know the story. Those Wisconsilainens are pretty good folks, but they talk kinda funny by Yooper standards.


----------



## slowp

SliverPicker said:


> I've seen you make comments about the area. Now I know the story. Those Wisconsilainens are pretty good folks, but they talk kinda funny by Yooper standards.



But there were plenty of Yooper loggers working in dat area, and a whole lot of dem Finlanders, yoooooou knoooooow. Dat part of Wisconsin is attached to da UP.


----------



## northmanlogging

1, 1970 Ford F-600 with a fair amount of rust in the cab...
1, slightly demented lead foot behind the wheel
1, unbalanced steer tire
1, slighty wonky shock on said unbalanced steer tire
23,660 pounds of rock, truck and fat guy driving.
I-5 in a section that desperately needs to be rebuilt, at rush hour.
55 mph=90000rpms (ish) I think I hit 60mph once...
Shake well...


----------



## Samlock

I can somehow _see_ that happen from here, North. I hope you still got all your tooth patches left.

Whereas a broken shaft u-joint got me stirred, but not shaken. A green olive on the top.


----------



## northmanlogging

I made it but its one of the scariest trips I've been on in awhile, last load of the day, had a flat, got it fixed getting late... Usually stick to the back roads where I can keep up.

As it is I didn't get home until about 9pm


----------



## SliverPicker

Just read this again: " The next week we had _three _ Makis working. We gave them numbers."

Awesome!


----------



## 1270d

Cornish miners all had a cousin jack, Finn loggers all know a guy named maki


----------



## madhatte

Pretty sure I just awoke the bursitis in my knee when I took a good spill running from yellowjackets. Knee hurts enough I've almost forgotten about the stings.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i hate yellow jackets worse than anything in the woods.........once you find them, that foaming yellowjacket spray works well........it don't have alot of range but once you start spraying they can't get out of the hole. been a bad year for um here......it been dry.


----------



## madhatte

The "Bee Bopper"? I've seen it but haven't tried it. I'm usually moving quickly enough that I don't have a lot of need to come back to wherever the bugs are.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i havn't seen the bee bopper..........like to see it, does it work and where can ya get it? i have to cut all the trees.........bees or not.......


----------



## madhatte

I've only seen it at Madsen's but then again I wasn't really looking. It's probably available elsewhere. 

EDIT: here it is http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/Products.asp?mi=60131


----------



## treeslayer2003

it contains pyrethrins wich is good but i don't see that it foams.........foam is good for ground bees.....


----------



## northmanlogging

Some of the saw shops carry it locally, unfortunately not locally enough for me... So I keep a couple cans of Raid wasp and hornet killer, works good enough.


----------



## SliverPicker

That Raid's great mouthwash on those -40F mornings.


----------



## Red Elm

Most of the time I love my job. Im a independent Forestry Contractor, which is a cleaned up name for "faller for hire". I get to be in the timber and fall trees all day, being independent if I dont like how things are going w a contractor im subbed to, I can tramp anytime I want. BUT sometimes I HATE MY JOB!!!

We were hired to do a clear cut on a pretty little hardwood ridge about 200 yards long for a hog confinement and farm pond project. On that ridge I cut mockernut, pignut, shagbark, and bitternut hickories, white, red and black oak, and the biggest stand of linden or basswood ive ever seen. At times the hickory nuts were so think you could hardly stand-up. I aint no bleeding heart tree hugger, but it sure was a waste of good wildlife habitat. Think of the deer and turkeys those oaks and hickories fed. Kinda makes it hard for me to sleep w myself at night.


----------



## Gologit

Red Elm said:


> Most of the time I love my job. Im a independent Forestry Contractor, which is a cleaned up name for "faller for hire". I get to be in the timber and fall trees all day, being independent if I dont like how things are going w a contractor im subbed to, I can tramp anytime I want. BUT sometimes I HATE MY JOB!!!
> 
> We were hired to do a clear cut on a pretty little hardwood ridge about 200 yards long for a hog confinement and farm pond project. On that ridge I cut mockernut, pignut, shagbark, and bitternut hickories, white, red and black oak, and the biggest stand of linden or basswood ive ever seen. At times the hickory nuts were so think you could hardly stand-up. I aint no bleeding heart tree hugger, but it sure was a waste of good wildlife habitat. Think of the deer and turkeys those oaks and hickories fed. Kinda makes it hard for me to sleep w myself at night.



Here you go...I think they're looking for members.


----------



## treeslayer2003

oh elm, i felt like that a couple times.........for two seconds. 
some one would have cut it........that was the LOs wishes.
on the big sticks......what some call old growth.......they gonna die any way so why not make use of it and make way for new trees.

disclaimer; i know the west coast old growth lives long.......not what i meant. there ain't a plot here that ain't been cut at some time.....folks see 5' oaks and think the indians played under um.


----------



## northmanlogging

Meh, the west coast old growth dies too, just takes a little longer, and makes a bigger mess when it does.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> oh elm, i felt like that a couple times.........for two seconds.
> some one would have cut it........that was the LOs wishes.
> on the big sticks......what some call old growth.......they gonna die any way so why not make use of it and make way for new trees.
> 
> disclaimer; i know the west coast old growth lives long.......not what i meant. there ain't a plot here that ain't been cut at some time.....folks see 5' oaks and think the indians played under um.


I've got a huge live oak that I'm sure was here when the country started, and no facts to the contrary can sway my feelings!


----------



## Red Elm

Not about tree huggin gologit. Its about a way of life disappearing. Had alot of fun as a kid, and adult, squirrel hunting on those hickory ridges. I hate to think my grandsons may not get to do that, aint many of em left. Very little timber left compared to when I was a kid in the 60's. Scape it off clean w a dozer and farm it.


----------



## hseII

Eccentric said:


> Jon's wife starts it for him however......


Printed Truff


----------



## bitzer

Wisconsin's forested area is actually higher now that it ever has been. Landowners are turning what was grassland or oak savannah into forest not to mention all of the farmland that has been turned in to woods. I'm clear cutting 20 acres right now that is part of an original 250 acre piece that was clear cut. Its being snipped off for farm land. It happens. The next landowner may put it back into tress though. I would say (at least up here) there is no lack of woodlands. I know we are re-foresting faster than we are cutting. This state got cut over so bad back in the 1800s that no one wants to ever see that again.


----------



## Metals406

Not only that, but 'old growth' is a term used to manipulate people emotionally.

A 4' tall tree is old growth, as much as a 200' tree.

Trees grow cyclically, it's how everything is. It's how we view and process time.

But selfish and ignorant people manipulate and twist facts to present fallacies as truth.

Just because you weren't alive 400 years ago, & won't be 400 years from now -- doesn't change the cycle, & has no effect on the result. Trees grow and die, just like everything else.


----------



## Samlock

Once you get paid, leave it all behind. Looking back won't turn it green again. Just turns you old and miserable. That doesn't help anyone.


----------



## Red Elm

Prolly good advice Sam. I use to work for an ole boy that always said, "there are two ways to deal with change, embrace it or get steam rolled by it". Nothing ever stays the same, does it?


----------



## Samlock

I'm thinking too late is too late - if you can't handle the change, deal with it before it's on you.


----------



## Gologit

Red Elm said:


> Prolly good advice Sam. I use to work for an ole boy that always said, "there are two ways to deal with change, embrace it or get steam rolled by it". Nothing ever stays the same, does it?



Somebody said "The only constant thing is change". Sad but true. The changes aren't always for the better but they're sure constant. And you're right about embracing change...there really isn't any other choice. I wish there was.
Loggers are agents of change and what we change affects a lot of people who have to look at the aftermath of our efforts. Some of them know that what they're looking at is temporary and remedial but most of them don't.

The Tree Hugger video that I put in my quote to your post wasn't meant to imply that you're one of those nut-jobs. We know that you're not. Your complaint was mild and very probably valid but logging, by it's very nature, is destructive. Part of what it destroys are the very things that we enjoy about being in the woods in the first place.


----------



## Red Elm

Couldn't have said it better Gologit.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i prefer to think of it as a new begining instead of destruction............makes me feel better at least


----------



## jomoco

You guys ever think about a symbiotic relationship with trees being better than a we live you die norm?

For instance, a huge coast redwood's worth X amount of dollars as processed lumber, alright?

But suppose by harnessing that same tree to generate clean renewable electric power, you could exceed the amount of money it brought in lumber, in the dollar amount of clean power generated?

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6825574.PN.&OS=PN/6825574&RS=PN/6825574

The trees live, lumberjacks and climbers remain gainfully employed installing and maintaining the tree harnesses and generation stations on the ground.

A true symbiosis between man and tree.

jomoco


----------



## bitzer

Will the tree live long enough to pay for the contraption?


----------



## jomoco

You tell me if all that tonnage swayin back n forth up there has that kinda low end torque?

In my experience? Absolutely, enough to rip you and your horse in half many times over!

We'll go two thirds up, install our cable bolt, in perfect alignment of course. Then attach it the unit's reciprocating lever arm, or your arm with your feet in concrete.

Wait for the wind to blow n see what happens?

jomoco


----------



## 1270d

and where the anchor is installed in/on the tree, the tree weakens. then it snaps off in a wind storm and the loggers are called to take care of it. full circle


----------



## jomoco

Yeah, clean renewable electricity's for losers, hippies n tree huggers huh?

jomoco


----------



## Metals406

Trees already generate Kw energy. I wouldn't mind seeing more generation possibilities.

But, I would bet tech like this would just be used to lock us out if more of our resources.


----------



## SliverPicker

What about the energy costs, pollution generated by producing the contraption, the roads and all monetary and energy cost to get to the trees to install all this hardware etc. etc. etc. What about damage to the tree?

What happens on the days that the wind fails to blow? 

This invention will never ever pay for it self let alone generate enough power to even be useful. If you can set one of these up that will light a single 40W light bub for one continuous year. I will sell my skidder and get a job with Greenpeace. Keep me up to date as your project progresses.


----------



## jomoco

Never ever?

That tears it, farewell cruel world...

Howzabout you get to hold the generator's two leads when the unit trips SP?

jomoco


----------



## treeslayer2003

now there is two


----------



## Gologit

jomoco said:


> I
> 
> Wait for the wind to blow n see what happens?
> 
> jomoco



I think there's some wind blowing right now. Mostly hot air with no real purpose or practical use. Kinda like it's source.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> I think there's some wind blowing right now. Mostly hot air with no real purpose or practical use. Kinda like it's source.


i don't see any thing.............its nice


----------



## Metals406

Good to see ya posting some JJ!!!


----------



## northmanlogging

Welp...
Kinda figured him for a bunny hugger, now the truth is out.


----------



## jomoco

Yes, the truth is out, I firmly believe trees are the noblest of all god's creations to date.

jomoco


----------



## HuskStihl

jomoco said:


> Yes, the truth is out, I firmly believe trees are noblest of all god's creations to date.
> 
> jomoco


Aren't you also the guy urging running leaded gas in the woods? BTW I like u'r tree wind energy idea. It needs to work with magnets moving thru a field tho, the wires (wahrs) aren't cool enough


----------



## jomoco

It just strikes me as silly not to take advantage of the naturally existing infrastructure of all that tonnage swaying back n forth in their millions to produce clean power for our needs.

There can be a true symbiotic relationship between trees and man if we are wise enough to cultivate it.

Millions of good jobs for millions of good people.

Sounds good to me even if it ain't the most cost effective and momentarily gratifying solution to a handful of greedy jerks!

jomoco


----------



## northmanlogging

Or you could just invest in tidal/wind/solar energy, all of which are proven and don't rely on boring holes through a living thing, weakening it and possibly killing it, so that it collapses and disrupts the power to millions of people for more than a few days...

Just say'n

For the record our local power company here is busy installing a handful of tidal generators in Puget Sound.


----------



## jomoco

What kinda argument is that, when the alternative is death by clear cut North Man?

Talk tu me bro!

Jon f'n Mooring


----------



## treeslayer2003

they been tryin for off shore wind farms here for years.............but it will be ugly for the tourists, pft.

ignore works great boys


----------



## jomoco

treeslayer2003 said:


> they been tryin for off shore wind farms here for years.............but it will be ugly for the tourists, pft.
> 
> ignore works great boys



Why do I get the distinct impression that you've never been 200 feet off the ground climbing a tree in your whole life mate?

jomoco


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> they been tryin for off shore wind farms here for years.............but it will be ugly for the tourists, pft.
> 
> ignore works great boys




Been trying to be nice... but that doesn't work... So Your idea is excellent.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i realized last time that it does no good to argue with drunks or........well you know..........just gets my bp up and no one to take it out on.


----------



## jomoco

What have you guys got against trees living to ripe old productive ages?

Does killing them somehow make you bigger braver men mates?

jomoco


----------



## jomoco

Who was it that said, give me a long enough lever and I'll move the world?

jomoco


----------



## jomoco

Archi...somebody...

jomoco


----------



## 1270d

treeslayer2003 said:


> i realized last time that it does no good to argue with drunks or........well you know..........just gets my bp up and no one to take it out on.


Speaking of bp, hit up the ER yesterday for some nasty stomach pain. It was lasting for a few days and not going away. Turns out I have been awarded with my first stomach ulcer.


----------



## Red Elm

1270d said:


> Speaking of bp, hit up the ER yesterday for some nasty stomach pain. It was lasting for a few days and not going away. Turns out I have been awarded with my first stomach ulcer.


Liberals are the usual cause of those.
Hope you get to feeling better.


----------



## jomoco

The cult of death knows no mercy.

jomoco


----------



## Metals406

Joe-moe

I've always appreciated your inventiveness. It seems like you're always trying to create -- & in that way we are very alike.

Pole-italically and socially, not so much.

BTW, a trees age being ripe or old is very subjective.

And trees are growing faster than humans are harvesting -- that's a fact.


----------



## jomoco

More like drinkin 25 oz Budweiser bong water!

Cheers!

jomoco


----------



## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> Speaking of bp, hit up the ER yesterday for some nasty stomach pain. It was lasting for a few days and not going away. Turns out I have been awarded with my first stomach ulcer.


sorry to hear that..........no booze and very little pain pills if you can help it.


----------



## jomoco

And trees are growing faster than humans are harvesting -- that's a fact.[/QUOTE said:


> So I gather it's your contention that both the east coast and west coast forests haven't contracted since the white man landed on the east coast of the good ole USA?
> 
> What a rush.....
> 
> 
> jomoco


----------



## Metals406

It's my contention that based on known growth rates, in multiple ecosystems -- proves growth is on par or exceeds harvest.

My region shows 1/2 or less growth rates to the west coast -- and clearcuts I walked through hunting as a kid -- now have 30' trees. In another 30-40 years, it can be harvested again.

Now look at a region with 2 times those growth rates.


----------



## jomoco

Can't let em get much more n 30 feet off the ground huh?

A guy could get hurt!

jomoco


----------



## Metals406

That was totally what I said.

[/Readingcomprehension]


----------



## northmanlogging

I have a picture on my phone of a tree I planted when I was in scouts (like 25 years ago or so) its close to 50' tall. Sometime I'd like to make it back to all the units we planted that summer and see what they look like now. Problem is I don't really remember where the Hel any of them are, I know the general area... but its all different now anyway, and it was gated land then, let alone now.

On a side note there are several redwoods in my Ma's yard that my Grandpa planted before he died, sometime in the early 60's, They would make a decent saw log now. 

The weird thing is she's been wanting me to fall em for a year or two, just can't bring myself to do it... their too young, don't make good firewood, and no one out here wants to mill redwood... so for now they remind me of someone I never met?


----------



## jomoco

I love it!

You deny that the east coast forests haven't shrank along with the west coast forests!

http://forestry.about.com/library/bl_us_forest_acre_trend.htm

I don't know what planet you live on mate, but this one can't afford your kinda ignorance much longer...

Change is a must, regardless of your grasp of reality.....


jomoco


----------



## bitzer

The problem is you just don't know when to shut the **** up. I really don't mind. I think its kind of amusing . Many more trees grow every day than are cut. The only thing shrinking is the general publics belief that we can and need to use our natural resources. We already know how to maintain em.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> The problem is you just don't know when to shut the **** up. I really don't mind. I think its kind of amusing . Many more trees grow every day than are cut. The only thing shrinking is the general publics belief that we can and need to use our natural resources. We already know how to maintain em.


i say let um starve and sleep in the rain.......folks like us will make it what ever comes. i saw on the local news a 9th grader thinks they make beef in the store.


----------



## jomoco

No, the problem is you don't recognize or believe in scientific empirically based facts n evidence.

Death is all you understand.

I feel sorry for your inability to see the grace and majesty that surrounds you mate.

Every tree has thousands of god's creations inhabiting it.

Your flawed attempt at playing god of the forest kills too much.

Balance in all things mate.

jomoco


----------



## Metals406

Ireland and Scotland got slicked off. . . And today, not one tree stands.

Oh wait, they have trees, must be unscientific majic!?

From your link:

"Some 300 million acres of forest land have been converted to other uses since 1630, predominantly because of agricultural uses in the East.
The forest resources of the U.S. have continued improving in general condition and quality, as measured by increased average size and volume of trees. This trend has been evident since the 1960s and before. The total forestland acreage has remained stable since 1900."


----------



## jomoco

So 300 million acres of lost forest land somehow equates to a net gain in your mind?

Was there a dead zone at the base of the Mississippi in 1630 in your learned opinion mate?

Tell me more, I find it fascinating in terms of the knuckle dragger mentality...

jomoco


----------



## Metals406

And therein lies the basic selfish desire of every enviro nutcase. "Stuff was different 300 years ago, I want those trees right NOW!"

"I want those trees alive 300 years from now too!! It's not fair!!"

It's not good enough that quality, size and volume has improved, & total forested acreage has remained stable for 114 years. (Again, from your source).

Your own link doesn't support mass deforestation.

NEXT


----------



## Joe46

Ah, thank goodness for the ignore list. Bye Jomoco


----------



## Gologit

Joe46 said:


> Ah, thank goodness for the ignore list. Bye Jomoco



It's nice, isn't it? When some ****-stirrer shows up and just want s to disrupt things, argue for no good reason, and...most of all...draw attention to himself, we can just push the magic button and he goes away.


----------



## jomoco

Maybe forming a tight defensive circle in rhythmic timing will make you jerks feel more manly n macho?

jomoco


----------



## jomoco

Trees live thousands of years, while we live a mere hundred years.

Yet you make the judgement that they die that you might live?

That there are no tenable choices other than death to trees so humans can gain expedient gratification of their flawed momentary desires?

Who would have dreamed that death and profiting from death would become 21st century virtues today?

jomoco


----------



## paccity

ain't even winter yet. lol. i've had these discussions with friends and none friends on this subject. rose colored glasses. even when shown the fact's . it is what it is .


----------



## jomoco

Every relationship's a two way street.



jomoco


----------



## madhatte

Apparently there is no such discipline as "Forestry". I was completely unaware of this development.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> Apparently there is no such discipline as "Forestry". I was completely unaware of this development.


Time to find a new line of work! Your job doesn't exist!!


----------



## Metals406

jomoco said:


> Trees live thousands of years, while we live a mere hundred years.



No. . . Quit generalizing with your grandiose exaggerations. It may work on the average brain dead Southern Californian, but we all know better here. Many, many species of trees have a life cycle of sixty to two hundred years, not thousands!! 



> Yet you make the judgement that they die that you might live?



Yup, based on silly science and pesky forestry.



> That there are no tenable choices other than death to trees so humans can gain expedient gratification of their flawed momentary desires?



Need a hug?



> Who would have dreamed that death and profiting from death would become 21st century virtues today?
> 
> jomoco



Hitler, the United Nations, Bush 1&2, the Clinton's, Obama, the entire Middle East. . . Shall I continue?


----------



## jomoco

Let's be PNW loggers and stick with big conifers that live over a thousand years.

Say Coast Redwoods?

The tall swayers...

They give us clean energy, we let them live to a ripe old age.

Change beneficial to both man and tree.

jomoco


----------



## Metals406

Yeah, they already let all those live. Redwood harvest is second and third growth these days.

If we're pretending, lets pretend we all live like the Natives, and we're "one" with nature. Never touching or using a resource.

Oh wait, they practiced forestry and plains stewardship using fire.

I think you're trying to win an unwinnable argument. The science just doesn't back up what you're trying to promote or say. There is no rape and pillage going on, everyone in the timber industry these days wants sustainable, renewable harvest. Who wants to work themselves out of a job? Nobody in the timber industry I know.


----------



## Joe46

Well, Metals there you go using logic and common sense. For those who stand on the other side of the tree it just doesn't work.


----------



## jomoco

You're completely ignoring the gainful employment aspect of rigging tall conifers for clean power generation.

It would of necessity entail the removal of a limited number of trees just for infrastructure placement in each area.

Semi accessibility comes in mighty handy during wildfire scenarios.

Each harnessed tree would need a well grounded lightning conduction system

The job potential could easily outnumber that provided by the logging and milling industries combined.

Scary huh?

jomoco


----------



## madhatte

Here's the deal: nobody ever said anything about "no way renewable energy will ever work!", just the same as nobody ever said "We gotta kill all the trees because they're evil!" Fact is, trees are a renewable resource, and an in-demand one at that. Certain places (such as the Pacific Northwest, where I live and work) are VERY good at growing trees, and FAST. Clearly, the days of cut-and-run logging are over. We have laws about that, even. You can look it up. OG redwoods are pretty much off the table for cutting ever again, and there's a long story behind that which you can also look up. OG _anything_ is pretty difficult to get permission to cut anywhere in the Lower 48 (SE Alaska is a different story). Many renewable energy sources have flat-out failed to live up to their promise, and all have shown limitations. I come from both a Forestry and a Nuclear Power background, so these things are very familiar to me. In the long run, what needs done is this: lots of research into both current and future resources and improvement in processes and efficiencies of both. I can say that in the span of my puny little career I have seen plenty of improvements and innovations in both, and expect to see more of the same.


----------



## jomoco

I know I'd feel better playing a caretaker role in this industry rather than a death dealing role exclusively.

Believe me, I've cut down enough healthy live beautiful trees sufficient to fry my azz in hell many times over, assuming it's a sin to kill them by the thousands.

A percentage of the electricity generated can be used to pump water, distribute and store water.

jomoco


----------



## madhatte

I don't think you understand forest dynamics very well. Nothing lives without something else dying; Forestry is just the process of making the decision about what dies and when rather than letting chance do the same.


----------



## jomoco

Empirically speaking, a mature 300 foot conifer, makes a helluva lot more oxygen, and soaks up a helluva lot more CO2, than puny 80 foot juveniles do.

Logic n facts cut two ways in this discussion between tree assassins...

jomoco


----------



## madhatte

On the contrary. A mature 300 foot conifer has already fixed nearly all of the CO2 that it is going to in its life, and respires only as much as necessary to maintain its foliage and root functions. By contrast, a young stand can double or triple its carbon inventory in a decade or less. We should be focused more on developing young stands than on stagnating old ones. A good rule of thumb: if the average tree in a stand has a pointy top, that stand is vigorously growing, and if the average tree in a stand is a flat-topped wagon wheel, the stand is no longer putting on volume.

EDIT: I should also add that if you cut a tree and use the lumber to build a house, that carbon remains fixed throughout the lifetime of that house and beyond, through the actions of decomposers and the complex food webs that depend on them. It is only released as CO2 through combustion.


----------



## treeslayer2003

madhatte said:


> On the contrary. A mature 300 foot conifer has already fixed nearly all of the CO2 that it is going to in its life, and respires only as much as necessary to maintain its foliage and root functions. By contrast, a young stand can double or triple its carbon inventory in a decade or less. We should be focused more on developing young stands than on stagnating old ones. A good rule of thumb: if the average tree in a stand has a pointy top, that stand is vigorously growing, and if the average tree in a stand is a flat-topped wagon wheel, the stand is no longer putting on volume.
> 
> EDIT: I should also add that if you cut a tree and use the lumber to build a house, that carbon remains fixed throughout the lifetime of that house and beyond, through the actions of decomposers and the complex food webs that depend on them. It is only released as CO2 through combustion.


quoted just to like it again. i think i said this to you before but i wish you worked over here.


----------



## madhatte

Thank you!


----------



## paccity

jomoco said:


> Empirically speaking, a mature 300 foot conifer, makes a helluva lot more oxygen, and soaks up a helluva lot more CO2, than puny 80 foot juveniles do.
> 
> Logic n facts cut two ways in this discussion between tree assassins...
> 
> jomoco


no. like the hatte posted. you need to do some more rounded research. and what are the forests going to look like with a bunch of rigging hanging off of them. but i think your not on here to have a rational discussion on the subject, your here to argue and or not be open to any other facts that do not correspond to your one sided point of view. peace out dude. lol.


----------



## Metals406

Nate, glad you said it so I didn't have to.

Old trees are old generation plants. Past their production prime -- time to be used fir another purpose.

There's sooo much disinformation out there about things. These eco-nutters have muddied the water to retard level dilution.

I know I said this earlier, but I love yer brain!


----------



## jomoco

What'll they look like harnessed up? They'll be big, happy, alive n swayin in the wind, well cared for and watered if necessary.

I know, I know. Must kill, must muck up the entire environs habitat, squirrels, birds, animals etc, evicted.

Stinkin loitering spongin loafers on the forest's welfare system.

Liberals, all them mangy fur bearin varmints!

jomoco


----------



## Metals406

I'd love to see a homeless animal. But they don't exist. 

It almost tugged on my heart strings though. . . Almost.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> I don't think you understand forest dynamics very well. Nothing lives without something else dying; Forestry is just the process of making the decision about what dies and when rather than letting chance do the same.



Well said.


----------



## bitzer

You're a weird dude jomoco. Seems you don't mind riding death's coat tails either. Otherwise you wouldn't have this delicious argument to flatter yourself with your superior intellect. If all the trees are snipped off I'm out of a job, MATE. Sustainability. Look it up. Loggers have done more for promoting the propagation of our forests than any other group. - I wrote this this morning as I was getting ready to murder more of God's creatures. And let me tell you, it was a ****ing bloodbath. For some reason it wouldn't post. And by the way he gave us these resources and told us to use em. You can look that up too. First page in the big book.

Clearly you are very confused Jomo on how the world works. You should tell yer customers to rig these contraptions in their yard trees instead of having them trimmed or removed.


----------



## jomoco

I'm just a huge fan of symbiotic relationships in nature. Like fine root hairs and mychorissae fungi have.

Mutually beneficial relationships that don't kill either host.

All I'm really doing is mimicking Mother Nature a bit.

Better to be a benign parasite taking care of the tree to a modest degree, than an invariably fatal infection that kills the tree.

jomoco


----------



## Metals406

Uh, our relationship is symbiotic.

"Hey look, a dying tree -- lets use it now while it's still good! And now let's plant another three trees to replace it."

It's less "Avatar" & more "Garden/Gardener".

You know, reality instead of fantasy.


----------



## jomoco

I'm an independent sub contractor who specializes in technical removals for lots of companies who don't want to risk their climbers tackling them alone.

Lots of Hobbs n bull lines n such.

I'm not climbing full time since I'm semiretired, but do get in atleast two or so days a week.

I'm 55 now, a little slower, kinda like a tree sloth.

jomoco


----------



## paccity

and?


----------



## paccity

i like quilts. it's a natural thing.


----------



## Red Elm

Sorry guys, I feel like I opened this can of worms. I think I'll just keep my thoughts to myself for the next 6 months or so.


----------



## northmanlogging

this is weird... its like I'm being preached at by the choir


----------



## Metals406

Red Elm said:


> Sorry guys, I feel like I opened this can of worms. I think I'll just keep my thoughts to myself for the next 6 months or so.


Nope, you're good.


----------



## Gologit

Red Elm said:


> Sorry guys, I feel like I opened this can of worms. I think I'll just keep my thoughts to myself for the next 6 months or so.



Sometimes threads go sideways. You didn't do anything wrong.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Red Elm, your fine.

i can't believe y'all are argueing with that dipstick, your wasting your time. i do enjoy your posts though lol.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> this is weird... its like I'm being preached at by the choir



Getting preached at ever do you any good?


----------



## jomoco

So somebody found a better more productive use for tall conifers than just cuttin em down for lumber! One that doesn't involve mowing them like grass.

You guys gonna whine n sulk about it for much longer?

Tree work's tree work already...

jomoco


----------



## paccity

and how does that make you feel.


----------



## Gologit

Did somebody say something? 

Note from admin...You are unable to read posts from jomoco because you have placed him on your IGNORE list. Should you have any interest in subjecting yourself to more mindless drivel and ill-informed rantings you may deselect IGNORE at any time. 

Darn.


----------



## northmanlogging

Gologit said:


> Getting preached at ever do you any good?



Made me a pagan... I think that's good? 

Problem with lots of misguided folks I meet is that I can smell BS from a mile away, always have, grew up surrounded by criminals, a guy gets a pretty good feel for when he's being sold something he doesn't want.


----------



## madhatte

Pretty sure I'm done with this line of discussion. I don't see much headway being made.


----------



## slowp

Wow! I was over on the other side observing The Larch. Guess my forestry experience and education was for naught! 
I see we have another Forestry Expert telling us that we are bad, and that our methods are wrong. Jamoco, if you were truly concerned about the environment, wouldn't you be living somewhere else? Somewhere that does not rely on diverted, scarce water? Where air conditioning wasn't needed? Where you didn't have to drive anywhere? Do you take public transportation to your jobs? 

Many of us have years of experience in the realm of forestry. We've planted a hell of a lot of trees, seen them thinned, protected them from fires, and some have seen those trees cut down and sent to a mill, which is one big reason they were planted in the first place. 

I'll have to look at your redwood thing later. But it boils down to what will generate the most profits, with the least amount of financial risk. Would you be willing to sock everything you have into your contraption? Risk going bankrupt? Put your money where your mouth is? That's what it all boils down to. You can lecture all you want to, but I cannot stand a hypocrite. Shut up and get to work drilling holes in redwoods. 

And I'm the evil liberal.


----------



## Gologit

I'd really rather that he _didn't_ drill any holes in my Redwoods. I might be tempted to drill a few holes in _him_, attach some rigging, hook up some telemetry, hoist him aloft, and see how much _he_ sways in the wind. Might leave him up there for a week or two, purely in the interest of research and knowledge.
I doubt if it would work out too well from a scientific point of view but I like to see everything put to it's best and most useful purpose.


----------



## jomoco

Hippocratic oath.

First, do no harm.

At least I'm not guilty of conflating the term butcher with tree surgeon.

jomoco


----------



## slowp

jomoco said:


> Hippocratic oath.
> 
> First, do no harm.
> 
> At least I'm not guilty of conflating the term butcher with tree surgeon.
> 
> jomoco



I think you are on the wrong forum to begin with. This is Forestry and Logging, not Arborist 101. Why aren't you posting with those pros? They are in your line of work aren't they? 

Now, do you practice what you preach? You've not answered whether you take public transportation to work, or any sacrifices made for the sake of the environment.


----------



## jomoco

You guys bust me up but good!

All you're fixated on like a laser, are the words clean renewable energy, and not cutting down tall conifers.

These two things are somehow evil liberal notions. Sound the bugles, circle the wagons, the evil liberals are attacking.

I find it very telling that not one of you so called experts have asked even one truly intelligent question.

Like what's the mass of a tall 300 foot Doug fir? How much pull on a dynamometer will it exert in 10mph breeze, 20, 30 etc.

Is it worthwhile to determine its true clean power generation potential?

No, just whinin, hang him in a tree for his blasphemy!

It's funny, sad, and ridiculously childish, all rolled into one.

What's that dynamometer reading gonna be guys?

Enough BS.

jomoco


----------



## paccity

b.s. .. then quit typing . go do your rigging and get back too us.


----------



## twochains

Just curious as to what Jomoco's other 7,047 post were about. 

How do you post pics on here now? I have a pic that Joco might like to give an opinion on.


----------



## jomoco

paccity said:


> b.s. .. then quit typing . go do your rigging and get back too us.



Your wish, is my command chum,



jomoco


----------



## jomoco

People and trees have a lot in common.

Both have the tenacious will to remain holding on for life..

They have a live and let live nobility that we are sorely lacking...



jomoco


----------



## Metals406

As I said a number of pages ago, I appreciate your inventiveness. I certainly don't appreciate your attitude. So if nobody drools all over your idea, you want to take your ball and go home? And we're a bunch of Neanderthals because we don't pine over you and your invention?

Wind farms have been around for years, and struggle to break even. Alternative energy is extremely difficult to make profitable. Without profit, nothing runs, nothing ever happens, no infrastructure is built. Money makes the world go around, it's capitalism. I guess in a purely communistic or socialistic society, everything would be done for free and it would be a utopia of long haired hippies tiptoeing through the flowers. But that's fantasy, and I am anchored in reality.

Your idea may very well be great! But why try and prove it here? If you really want to make a go of it, bring it to an energy company. If they see that it's a winner, they'll try to buy it from you -- or steal it from you! So go talk to General Electric, and quit being a **** to us about your tree swaying brilliance.


----------



## jomoco

Forests have far more value to us than just lumber harvested mates.

I'm just trying to both keep tall conifers alive n swayin, and increase the number of jobs in tree related fields.

You guys are just going to have to learn how to pocket pay checks for work that's not invariably lethal to tall trees!

jomoco


----------



## slowp

jomoco said:


> Forests have far more value to us than just lumber harvested mates.
> 
> I'm just trying to both keep tall conifers alive n swayin, and increase the number of jobs in tree related fields.
> 
> You guys are just going to have to learn how to pocket pay checks for work that's not invariably lethal to tall trees!
> 
> jomoco




Golly gee. I guess forestry is not related to trees. They didn't learn us that. Learn me more. What is a tree related field? Does one prune a lil' ol tree singin' one tree at a time, sweet (insert your diety here)? 

Must not be enough tree related field work in SoCal right now. 

Edumacate yourself or continue to be ridiculed...."mate". 

I believe I'd best put you on ignore, because you are ignorant. Bye please.


----------



## jomoco

What's your beef with a net gain in forest jobs?

jomoco


----------



## slowp

More larch. I was thinking firewood. I coulda towed it behind the kayak.


----------



## slowp

We saw no moose, but they do wander around sometimes in this part of the country.


----------



## Metals406

I love Larch!


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> I love Larch!



I liked your like. We burned a chunk in our rainy campfire. We pretty much had that lake to ourselves. It's in the hard to get to from the city part of the state.

It was too early for the larch to be yellow.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> I liked your like. We burned a chunk in our rainy campfire. We pretty much had that lake to ourselves. It's in the hard to get to from the city part of the state.
> 
> It was too early for the larch to be yellow.


The Larch here are just now starting to turn. Kind'a want to skip winter this year. *sigh*

With the last snow June 17th, seems like we got jipped on summer.


----------



## treeslayer2003

hello ms. P, youve not been around in a few days.

Clint i can't seem to post pics any more either.........and you and Colton need profile pics so my blind azz can see yas better lol.


----------



## Metals406

I'm using tapatalk on here anymore.


----------



## slowp

treeslayer2003 said:


> hello ms. P, youve not been around in a few days.
> 
> Clint i can't seem to post pics any more either.........and you and Colton need profile pics so my blind azz can see yas better lol.



I was over on the other side of the mountains communing with The Larch. I also brought back a box of apples and have spent today making apple sauce. The last batch is in the canner.


----------



## madhatte

Arrh, larch be good stuff. Might hafta make a trip over to the dry side and have a look at its fall colors.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> Arrh, larch be good stuff. Might hafta make a trip over to the dry side and have a look at its fall colors.



It wasn't the dry side last week...sigh.


----------



## 1270d

How is the ignore feature put to use?

Our larch is just starting to show some yellow. They seem to be fully turned just about the time all of the leaves are gone.

Are larch needles called needles, or something different?


----------



## slowp

1270d said:


> How is the ignore feature put to use?
> 
> Our larch is just starting to show some yellow. They seem to be fully turned just about the time all of the leaves are gone.
> 
> Are larch needles called needles, or something different?



Click on the name in the box above the avatar of the one you wish to ignore. It will bring up a box and on the lower right corner, you will see Ignore. Click on that.
Yup, we call them needles. Or I do.


----------



## SliverPicker

You can call 'em leaves too if you want.


----------



## SliverPicker

Show me the math (energy) on this wind harvesting fantasy. Be sure to include the total energy requirements to manufacture, transport, maintain and repair this gizmo. Will the raw materials to manufacture these things come from a divine source or will they have to be mined from the earth? Also include the energy cost to secure the raw materials. Is any pollution generated during any step of this production. If so please include details.

When you have tallied everything required to get and keep this fantastic (meant in the true sense of the word) contraption working please compare that with the energy actually produced.

Only then will you know if it makes sense or not.

Now if you will excuse me I have a Cult of Death meeting to attend.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> I do miss tippin' Larch down on the gulch. Mostly all small Lodgepole up here. I had some sweet fall Tamarack pics before the computer bought the farm. Oh, well.


Yeah, Marion is lodgepole central. But elk like hiding in lodgepole. :-D


----------



## Metals406

SliverPicker said:


> Show me the math (energy) on this wind harvesting fantasy. Be sure to include the total energy requirements to manufacture, transport, maintain and repair this gizmo. Will the raw materials to manufacture these things come from a divine source or will they have to be mined from the earth? Also include the energy cost to secure the raw materials. Is any pollution generated during any step of this production. If so please include details.
> 
> When you have tallied everything required to get and keep this fantastic (meant in the true sense of the word) contraption working please compare that with the energy actually produced.
> 
> Only then will you know if it makes sense or not.
> 
> Now if you will excuse me I have a Cult of Death meeting to attend.


Death cult? Y'all taking new members?


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Click on the name in the box above the avatar of the one you wish to ignore. It will bring up a box and on the lower right corner, you will see Ignore. Click on that.
> Yup, we call them needles. Or I do.


Yep, we call'em needles too, but I believe they are a leaf.

Waldren's brain can tell us if we're wrong.


SliverPicker said:


> You can call 'em leaves too if you want.


----------



## jomoco

You guys are the tall tree experts.

You tell me what you think the dynamometer's gonna read attached 200 ft up a 300ft Doug fir in a 10 mph breeze?

5 tons, 10 or higher?

jomoco


----------



## rwoods

slowp said:


> Click on the name in the box above the avatar of the one you wish to ignore. It will bring up a box and on the lower right corner, you will see Ignore. Click on that.
> Yup, we call them needles. Or I do.



Thank you. Ron


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> Yep, we call'em needles too, but I believe they are a leaf.
> 
> Waldren's brain can tell us if we're wrong.



"Needle" is one of many kinds of leaf. Both terms are correct.


----------



## SliverPicker

You're already in 406, I'm fairly certain I saw your name on the members' list last time. Didn't I?


----------



## SliverPicker

I LOVE the "ignore" function. It's like a breath of fresh air! Thanks for the tutorial Ms. p!


----------



## northmanlogging

hit a fence this morning, dumb ass rookie move, just plain gunned it wrong... knew it was close clearance but didn't take the time to do it right...

2-3 loads on about a 1/4 acre lot, houses on 3-1/2 sides, power lines on the other... this gyppo life is something isn't it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> hit a fence this morning, dumb ass rookie move, just plain gunned it wrong... knew it was close clearance but didn't take the time to do it right...
> 
> 2-3 loads on about a 1/4 acre lot, houses on 3-1/2 sides, power lines on the other... this gyppo life is something isn't it.


it happens........in a hurry. i cut the hinge off a big azz poplar this spring n lost it in a creek.........walk in muck n pick up sticks.
i did not do that again since.......makes ya remember lol.


----------



## SliverPicker

Friday in bed at 10:00 up at 12:02 am Friday. Coffee in the Thermos. Left the house at 3:45. 4.5 hour drive. Did a mercenary imitation on some Pondy pine for 7 hours. Drove home. Watched 1/2 a movie. In bed by 10. Poopered pup! I need to remind myself not to get up at midnight.


----------



## northmanlogging

Set an alarm man! then forget it...

Cracked my last vented gas can today, the nice ones with the flexible spout that you pull out... Now all I've got is the assnine CA legal crap we're forced to buy and then modify so they work properly. Of course the cap is going to get lost almost instantly and the schrade valve isn't exactly gasoline rated... but its better then wait five minutes to fill one saw with go juice. glug glug glug...


----------



## 1270d

Buy the Motorsport style cans. No safety garbage on em.


----------



## 1270d




----------



## northmanlogging

Do they make them in 1 a gal size? cause I don't think I'm up to dragging 5 gals of fuel around with me...


----------



## 1270d

Didn't see you were referring to your bush cans. Ive just rinsed a bar oil jug for bush gas. There's always at least a fiver of saw mix in the truck.


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> Set an alarm man! then forget it...
> 
> Cracked my last vented gas can today, the nice ones with the flexible spout that you pull out... Now all I've got is the assnine CA legal crap we're forced to buy and then modify so they work properly. Of course the cap is going to get lost almost instantly and the schrade valve isn't exactly gasoline rated... but its better then wait five minutes to fill one saw with go juice. glug glug glug...


http://ezpourspout.com/

Annnnd. . . You're welcome.


----------



## bitzer

Yeah just rinse yer oil jugs. They're cheap. Make sure you use a different shape/color jug than yer oil though. Or at least different color caps. Nice work in the video. Drives me nuts when I see you west coast guys fumblin around for yer axe though! Not sure why you guys like havin to look for stuff. That second one took the first wedge pretty easy. I figured a tickling of the hinge would have gotten it over. I forget that your trees can sit back a little easier than mine. I don't know whats behind ya there either though. Hope yer gettin paid extra for workin around all them houses!


----------



## northmanlogging

Its not so much that we like looking for stuff as that that axe is heavy and awkward. Tis easier to look for it than to have it hang up on underbrush and whatnot, normally it would have been a tad closer, not sure why I left it that far away. 

There is a house and shop about 50' behind where I fell those, The better video would have been the snag I dropped between the two, but I'm still figuring out my new camera... turn out mic on is like the clapper and it turns on or off with sharp noises... guess it helps to read the manual first...


----------



## SliverPicker

Ditto. I cracked my last "normal person" spout on the last job. 

For oil I haven't found anything better than a 5 quart Castrol oil jug. The spout protrudes just enough to make pouring into the saw effortless. For gas a windshield pisser juice container is great. They are tougher than a bleach jug or bar oil jug.

I think about a half dozen EZ Pours are in my future. Thanks for the link.

"set an alarm" What's an alarm?


----------



## treeslayer2003

northy i have gone to a heavy ax just so i am not losing that hammer all the time. i had to thin down the first inch or so but now i just stick it in the next tree back about waist high...........it drives about as good as a sledge and i think it may be easier to hit with.


----------



## northmanlogging

I took on some axe throwing dudes awhile back with my old craftsman 3.5 pounder, most of them where using double headed hatchets... I feel I did OK...

unfortunately the ole craftsman has suffered a broken handle since then and I haven't had time to replace it, I'll need to fire up the forge and reshape the eye after using it for a jack plate, with luck I should be able to get the original temper back.


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> I took on some axe throwing dudes awhile back with my old craftsman 3.5 pounder, most of them where using double headed hatchets... I feel I did OK...
> 
> unfortunately the ole craftsman has suffered a broken handle since then and I haven't had time to replace it, I'll need to fire up the forge and reshape the eye after using it for a jack plate, with luck I should be able to get the original temper back.


You should be able to, just run a few normalizing cycles after forging to shrink the grain and run a good long temper after hardening. If it were me, I'd heat it to 425 for an hour or so. Maybe draw the eye a bit further after with a torch, I'm a big believer in differential treat.


----------



## northmanlogging

Yeah, got to iron it out first, probably a good idea to anneal first though, 

Figure I'll do the torch thing until the color runs to straw at the blade edge, full anneal on the poll... at least that's the plan...

For now I'm waiting on cooler weather and more rain, its still just a touch hot to be playing with coal. Not to mention a few days off from logging.

That and I'll need to forge up a drift. Got a buddy that wants to forge weld some cable and make himself a knife anyway.


----------



## HuskStihl

Northy, if you become as good at fence repair as I now am, then you will know you have a directional falling problem.


----------



## northmanlogging

Knocked over the end of that fence today... the missus has a wide ass...

Also for the record if you happen to be in a Home Gyppo hardware store and you happen to still be wearing calks, no one gives a ****... it does make cornering and stopping interesting though.


----------



## slowp

Yes, it is a good thing to know where those concrete floors are. Like the bathroom of the Chevron in Packwood.


----------



## hammerlogging

Well now then ya'll know what its like to walk on a hickory log with anything but brand new calks- some hickory stumps you'll just slide across.

I picked up an old cutting contract that's sort of on the cusp of the Blue Ridge from the lower elevation Valley and Ridge. So in one day I cut lowland hickory, black walnut, scarlet oak, white oak, chestnut oak, but also the more usual nice northern red oak, soft maple, hard maple, poplar, ash, and if I'd stuck it out another hour or two I saw some cherry up in the cut. Easy ground. good job.


----------



## treeslayer2003

poplar bark when it slips in spring is like ice......

descriptive.........all my shirts have a stain on the right shoulder


----------



## Samlock

treeslayer2003 said:


> poplar bark when it slips in spring is like ice......
> 
> descriptive.........all my shirts have a stain on the right shoulder



Start spitting over your left shoulder. Won't clean your right, but will get it on balance.


----------



## hammerlogging

mine just all have holes.


----------



## Joe46

I worked with an old faller who's wife sewed a denim patch on the right shoulder of his hickory shirts. Wasn't quite a bushler pad, but worked pretty good.


----------



## rwoods

*NOT GOOD.*

For the second year in a row, loggers were #1 on the list of the deadliest jobs in America. Be careful out there and break the streak. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

So who's idea was it to load 20 or so logs on the trailer by hand anyway...


----------



## slowp

Here we go....maybe. Looks like it will get windy at Randymac's place later on.

http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/


----------



## paccity

yup going to be a sogger. but after the dusty season i'm ok with it. at least for a month or two.


----------



## madhatte

I'm always happy to see the season change. I do wish it'd cool down, though. If I have to put on a coat, it'd best be cold.


----------



## Metals406

We've had a warm October. . . I like it!! It's good paybacks for a cold ass June.

Rainy/soggy here today. Reminds me of y'alls weather.


----------



## RandyMac

Going to Eureka today, might pack a saw.
Forecast "The rain could be heavy at times. High near 62. Breezy, with a south wind 15 to 23 mph, with gusts as high as 33 mph."


----------



## madhatte

Sounds like a good idea.


----------



## Gologit

Joe46 said:


> I worked with an old faller who's wife sewed a denim patch on the right shoulder of his hickory shirts. Wasn't quite a bushler pad, but worked pretty good.


 
I've had shirts like that. Plus patches on the collar, the sleeves, the sides...No point in giving up on a good shirt just 'cause it has a little wear on it.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> I've had shirts like that. Plus patches on the collar, the sleeves, the sides...No point in giving up on a good shirt just 'cause it has a little wear on it.


Clothing just starts feeling good about the time it wants to blow off like a puffy dandelion head.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Clothing just starts feeling good about the time it wants to blow off like a puffy dandelion head.



Yup. Kinda like White Ox gloves...just about the time the "slick" gets ground off and there's a good bit of grit and pitch built up on them they start wearing holes in the fingers.


----------



## slowp

It might be a good thing to throw chainsaw and gear in if traveling on Saturday. November storms are here. Now is the time for tourists to visit.
http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/


----------



## SliverPicker

I remember some dandy storms in November while I was in Humboldt County. One time there where some swells measured at 53 feet. I went from Blue Lake to Trinidad to take a peak at those waves. Downright scary. There where balls of sea foam landing 300-400 yards inland when the waves would crash.


----------



## 1270d

_I remember some dandy storms in November while I was in Humboldt County. One time there where some swells measured at 53 feet. I went from Blue Lake to Trinidad to take a peak at those waves. Downright scary. There where balls of sea foam landing 300-400 yards inland when the waves would crash._


that would be something to see


----------



## RandyMac

Another storm coming tonight, stronger winds, more rain, looks like Orygun is getting the brunt.


----------



## northmanlogging

Sat, looks like I get to rig a tree for pulling over... climber done hurted himself which leaves me... Should be fun in the pouring rain and wind...


----------



## Metals406

Been real wet and windy here.


----------



## RandyMac

http://sat.wrh.noaa.gov/satellite/alternative.php?wfo=&area=west&type=vis&size=4


----------



## madhatte

I guess that means lawn-mowing season is over.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> I guess that means lawn-mowing season is over.



I mowed mine once in January. Got tired of "finding" the hidden dog logs.


----------



## RandyMac

It got noisy for awhile, gusts in the low 60s, rained some. 101 got swamped south of town, by the harbor and the wetlands before you go up the hill. Lost power late this morning, came back on about 5pm.
7.5 foot tide, 4 foot storm surge and 25 foot waves.


----------



## slowp

Oh my! I checked our forecast and was shocked to find that it had changed and we may get those winds here.


----------



## Metals406

Bet it smelled salty.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Showing snow showers for Monday, it'll be just like mid June!
> 
> See any bucks today?


Yup, the white stuff that we do not speak of, is coming.

Shot the 45-70 more today with Liam so he can go bag something. Will take him out in a few days.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Oh my! I checked our forecast and was shocked to find that it had changed and we may get those winds here.


Batten down the Grapple Cat!


----------



## northmanlogging

winds here... got "lucky" with a sucker hole and managed to rig that tree... still hate the gaffs...


----------



## slowp

Now they lowered it to 50 mph gusts. I do have a sliver under my fingernail to torment me.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Now they lowered it to 50 mph gusts. I do have a sliver under my fingernail to torment me.


Soak the finger in a strong mix of Epsom salts. It'll help draw out the splinter.


----------



## Samlock

northmanlogging said:


> winds here... got "lucky" with a sucker hole and managed to rig that tree... still hate the gaffs...



One of the first trees I ever climbed I did with the gear, which belonged to a guy who weighs well over 200 lb. The irons kept popping out all the way up and down. My steering side looked like I'd been dragged by a horse on gravel. The pard says he has to keep the spikes that way, otherwise he'll get stuck. At the end of the day he says that.


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> Soak the finger in a strong mix of Epsom salts. It'll help draw out the splinter.



I'll try that if I can find those. Digging did no good. But, it's on the bow hand and not the fingering hand. 

The wind peaked out about 9pm here. The power stayed on. The cedars stayed upright.


----------



## northmanlogging

I'm a touch over 300, the new to me mallory's did good, haven't slipped once and only where kinda sticky, but not so bad as to be work to get them loose...

Nothing like putting wet pants on first thing in the morning...


----------



## RandyMac

northmanlogging said:


> I'm a touch over 300, the new to me mallory's did good, haven't slipped once and only where kinda sticky, but not so bad as to be work to get them loose...
> 
> Nothing like putting wet pants on first thing in the morning...


second only to cold, wet boots.


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> I'm a touch over 300, the new to me mallory's did good, haven't slipped once and only where kinda sticky, but not so bad as to be work to get them loose...
> 
> Nothing like putting wet pants on first thing in the morning...


Oh, so you're just a little fella. 

[emoji14]


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> second only to cold, wet boots.


One of the best things I ever did was buy a boot drier.


----------



## 1270d

everyone should have a boot drier. I love my Peet drier.


----------



## bitzer

I've got two! The weather here is right on par now. Ugh packers suck tonight.


----------



## slowp

I have three but I only know where two are. Has anybody ever tried out boot driers that plug into cigarette lighters in cars?


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> I have three but I only know where two are. Has anybody ever tried out boot driers that plug into cigarette lighters in cars?


I haven't yet, but gotta figure out something for fire camp.

I ran my truck heater on the last fire to dry cloths/boots, & I got complaints.


----------



## M.R.

Metals406 said:


> I haven't yet, but gotta figure out something for fire camp.
> 
> I ran my truck heater on the last fire to dry cloths/boots, & I got complaints.



On but mostly Off grid I like the soapstone ones.
usually heated on the woodstove
& several times with the dozer exhaust manifold.


In the back country hunting w/the packstring I've even
Filled them w/grain to soak up the moisture. Before (weather wise)
Going to the packs w/extra liners.


----------



## Metals406

I've heard of guys stuffing gear with newspaper to help suck out moisture.


----------



## SliverPicker

Loose fuel cap on my 460. 28 full oz. of 50:1 down my right thigh. Double layer of denim. It made for LONG, stinky, crummy commute home. 

Keep away from flame and sparks.


----------



## Metals406

SliverPicker said:


> Loose fuel cap on my 460. 28 full oz. of 50:1 down my right thigh. Double layer of denim. It made for LONG, stinky, crummy commute home.
> 
> Keep away from flame and sparks.


Been there, sucks!


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Is that instead of socks and long underwear?


LOL you put the newspaper in while it's off.


----------



## treeslayer2003

SliverPicker said:


> Loose fuel cap on my 460. 28 full oz. of 50:1 down my right thigh. Double layer of denim. It made for LONG, stinky, crummy commute home.
> 
> Keep away from flame and sparks.


an old husky put bar oil down my back........i forget the model but i hated that saw after that lol.


----------



## northmanlogging

started changing my mind on the flip top lids after a few tanks of bar oil and saw gas rattled loose and down my leg, whilst filling the bar oil tank with chips...


----------



## SliverPicker

Yeah, I think I am changing my mind about these caps too. Too complicated. Too many parts to break and wear out. Threaded caps make more sense in the woods. Give me screw caps for my saws and a skidder with no computer and I will be a happy poika.

The higher the technology the lower the reliability.


----------



## slowp

I still have half a sliver in my finger and I forgot to go to civilization to get some Epsom salts yesterday.


----------



## Trx250r180

Oh goodie ,a gas cap thread 



Yes i have had bar oil down the back with the 460 once ,of course you do not feel it through a sweatshirt till the whole tank is empty and filling your boot


----------



## SliverPicker

I don't think a boot drier will work on that.....


----------



## SliverPicker

Dr. Raleigh's salve works wonders on slivers if they get to the point that they are infected. If you have some it might work to get that out. Of course I don't know if it works on half slivers or not.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> I still have half a sliver in my finger and I forgot to go to civilization to get some Epsom salts yesterday.


You can take salt baths with them too -- very relaxing!


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I still have half a sliver in my finger and I forgot to go to civilization to get some Epsom salts yesterday.


 Razor blade, tweezers, peroxide, wrap.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Razor blade, tweezers, peroxide, wrap.


I think it's under her nail?


----------



## SliverPicker

If its under her nail then: _pliers_, razor blade, tweezers, peroxide, wrap.


----------



## Gologit

SliverPicker said:


> If its under her nail then: _pliers_, razor blade, tweezers, peroxide, wrap.





Or maybe...LARGE shot of whiskey, pliers, razor blade etc.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> My wife digs my splinters out with a nice sharp sewing needle.
> She says it doesn't hurt her one bit!


Pinch her next time and you'll be even Steven. LOL


----------



## slowp

It is under the nail. And I already poked around with a dirty needle that is kept on a dusty shelf. I don't have any peroxide so I shot some hand sanitizer under my nail. I think it'll just have to grow out or rot or whatever they do. Maybe I should inject some root rot spores or conk spores.


----------



## treeslayer2003

slowp said:


> It is under the nail. And I already poked around with a dirty needle that is kept on a dusty shelf. I don't have any peroxide so I shot some hand sanitizer under my nail. I think it'll just have to grow out or rot or whatever they do. Maybe I should inject some root rot spores or conk spores.


if its clean wood it will prolly work out. if its a thorn or steel sliver, it has to come out.


----------



## northmanlogging

had a big nasty sliver jammed under my thumbnail few years ago, about 3/4" long and 3/16" wide, went straight in past the cuticle and broke of somewheres under the nail... say in inch deep overall.

3 clinics later...

Quack cut the nail back and yarded on it with some needle nose pliers... I heart Novacain... still have a bit of whoop and a nice white line down my nail...

If its not real deep you could try trimming the nail more than a little short and see if you can get at it that way, otherwise wait it out a few days and the little ones work themselves out.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> had a big nasty sliver jammed under my thumbnail few years ago, about 3/4" long and 3/16" wide, went straight in past the cuticle and broke of somewheres under the nail... say in inch deep overall.
> 
> 3 clinics later...
> 
> Quack cut the nail back and yarded on it with some needle nose pliers... I heart Novacain... still have a bit of whoop and a nice white line down my nail...
> 
> If its not real deep you could try trimming the nail more than a little short and see if you can get at it that way, otherwise wait it out a few days and the little ones work themselves out.


quack mighta got yarded on his self..........


----------



## northmanlogging

He's was the third try at finding someone to even let me in the door... and he was nice enough to not poke around or make me wait for the Novacain... it was starting to swell and leak by then...

He was pretty new... and seemed to enjoy it...


----------



## RandyMac

I was running from a noisy event and bounced off the big end of a butt log, drove a DF splinter right through the middle of the first joint of my trigger finger. Yep, glove and all. I clipped off the ends, cut the finger of the glove off, tried to pull it out with vice grips, no go. Had old Doc Thornton give it a try, he pinned my finger over a table edge and drove it out using an awl. He got most of it, but resorted to a scalpel to get the rest, 6 stitches to close it up.


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> I was running from a noisy event and bounced off the big end of a butt log, drove a DF splinter right through the middle of the first joint of my trigger finger. Yep, glove and all. I clipped off the ends, cut the finger of the glove off, tried to pull it out with vice grips, no go. Had old Doc Thornton give it a try, he pinned my finger over a table edge and drove it out using an awl. He got most of it, but resorted to a scalpel to get the rest, 6 stitches to close it up.


Uhhhhhhh, damn!

No wonder yer awnry!


----------



## treeslayer2003

RandyMac said:


> I was running from a noisy event and bounced off the big end of a butt log, drove a DF splinter right through the middle of the first joint of my trigger finger. Yep, glove and all. I clipped off the ends, cut the finger of the glove off, tried to pull it out with vice grips, no go. Had old Doc Thornton give it a try, he pinned my finger over a table edge and drove it out using an awl. He got most of it, but resorted to a scalpel to get the rest, 6 stitches to close it up.


ouch


----------



## slowp

Mine is just a teenie one. Otherwise, I'd have probably gotten it out. It probably wouldn't even hurt if I left it alone. Which I think I will do today. Today might warm up enough to do some epoxying on The Cathair Boat.


----------



## northmanlogging

bought me a shiny new 36" stihl es light bar this morning, fell one maple, and bent/crushed it.... tweeked the last 6" or so and collapsed the chain rails...

But I got the maple to swing 90 deg and miss the drain feild...


----------



## treeslayer2003

yea, i don't think light bars are for me..........


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> bought me a shiny new 36" stihl es light bar this morning, fell one maple, and bent/crushed it.... tweeked the last 6" or so and collapsed the chain rails...
> 
> But I got the maple to swing 90 deg and miss the drain feild...


Oh that just stinks!


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> yea, i don't think light bars are for me..........


They're good.


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> yea, i don't think light bars are for me..........



They're pretty good, what happened would have messed up regular bar too... dutched the off side something fierce so while she went over is sat down hard on the bar...


----------



## northmanlogging

I was able to iron it out most of the way, has a bit of dent in the hollow spot, but I think I can live with that.


----------



## SliverPicker

northmanlogging said:


> They're pretty good, what happened would have messed up regular bar too... dutched the off side something fierce so while she went over is sat down hard on the bar...


That's always the catch with that. Too much protrusion and ,wham, the bar is bent. Just like doctors we keep "practicing".


----------



## Samlock

Falling uphill whole day, quartering it to the left. It only came to me as driving back home, that I have dipped my right knee into the wet snow +100 times.

Can a kneecap catch cold? Feels like that, anyway.


----------



## twochains

Hey is Huskstihl stihl on here?

Maybe some of you guys could help me figure something out. I have been having problems with my left hand. I run 8 hour days and when I get done and almost to the house my left hand draws up like a massive charlie horse and distorts my hand into looking like a withered claw. I am not getting charlie horses anywhere else so I am ruling out dehydration.

I fractured that same hand 2 months ago and didn't go get treatment, I could still manage to start my saw and hold it so I just tried to make it work. With the said hand healing from injury...the cramping of said hand feels as if my fracture is gonna crack back open...very painful even though it only lasts no more than a minute and only happens once or twice a day.

Have any of you guys ever experienced hand cramping such as I have described? If so, do you know anything I could take to help it stay away while the fracture continues to try and heal?

Thanks in advance.

Oh and Randy...yer a bad ass, no doubt brother! WHOOT!


----------



## treeslayer2003

nerve damage.........yea, i have had some trouble with it but not bad. i suspect you screwed somthing up in there when ya broke it.
Jon will be along at some point.


----------



## Metals406

twochains said:


> Hey is Huskstihl stihl on here?
> 
> Maybe some of you guys could help me figure something out. I have been having problems with my left hand. I run 8 hour days and when I get done and almost to the house my left hand draws up like a massive charlie horse and distorts my hand into looking like a withered claw. I am not getting charlie horses anywhere else so I am ruling out dehydration.
> 
> I fractured that same hand 2 months ago and didn't go get treatment, I could still manage to start my saw and hold it so I just tried to make it work. With the said hand healing from injury...the cramping of said hand feels as if my fracture is gonna crack back open...very painful even though it only lasts no more than a minute and only happens once or twice a day.
> 
> Have any of you guys ever experienced hand cramping such as I have described? If so, do you know anything I could take to help it stay away while the fracture continues to try and heal?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Oh and Randy...yer a bad ass, no doubt brother! WHOOT!


I can get tendonitis from carpentry or being on the saw. That sounds waaay worse.

Sorry mang. :0(


----------



## twochains

Surely there is something I can take for it...I can't stand even the highest quality fish oil though....give me gas! LMAO!


----------



## Metals406

twochains said:


> Surely there is something I can take for it...I can't stand even the highest quality fish oil though....give me gas! LMAO!


Nerve damage is tricky, I'm sure Jon will have some suggestions.


----------



## treeslayer2003

IDK other than pain pills..........i'll put up with alot before taking any thing..........i believe in my own body fixing itself.
i worked with a guy in his 60s once, his hands were permenent claws. he weren't the greatest faller but he would work his ass off.


----------



## twochains

Yeh, I cant do the pain pill thing...tht'll get into my beer drinkin! LOL! ....don't drink beer either...well, not in quantities


----------



## RandyMac

just 'til you hit 40


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, we both over that hump...........i know what ya mean tho, takes longer every year now.


----------



## RandyMac

60 is close, bearings and bushings show the wear, half a turn on the wheel, to take up the slack


----------



## treeslayer2003

i always said we shoulda had grease fittings lol.


----------



## northmanlogging

potassium, like in bannaners (retch) yer muscles are probably working harder then usual to compensate for the bits that don't work so good, or like the other have said its nerve damage caused by the break and agrevated by continuing to work too damn hard. 

If it is the nerves a cortizone shot works pretty good, I've had a few of them takes a bit of time say a week or four but after a while things start working more or less as they should. You'll need a doctor to prescribe it though.


----------



## rwoods

Clint, my hands will do the same after a good Saturday's work for me. Pretty embarrassing and freaky at the grocery store when it happens as you are trying to pay the checkout girl. Copious quantities of rubbing alcohol is the only thing that seems to give quick relief for me from any cramp. I attribute mine to dehydration, vibrations and getting old. Ron


----------



## rwoods

Bob, so the old PM850 gave you a grin. Glad to see it. 

I know you don't care for my little drilling hammer so I am replacing it with something I came up with while pining to get back to cutting. I hope you approve - 5# Plumb with a freshly converted mattock handle. When I get better I'll beat it hard to make sure it is good to go and figure out what length I want. Seems tight under light testing. Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

thats a nice lookin ax

Ron i recently went to an ax, the transition was very easy. the ax carries better and i can stick in junk wood so im not looking for my hammer on the ground.
i never seen a plumb shaped like that


----------



## rwoods

It is a rafting axe. As I understand it, the head is for driving pegs into logs being rafted. Anyway it should be the cat's meow for driving wedges. Ron


----------



## Gologit

Perfect choice.


----------



## Samlock

Magnesium. Helped me with the muscle cramps I used to have.


----------



## Trx250r180

rwoods said:


> Bob, so the old PM850 gave you a grin. Glad to see it.
> 
> I know you don't care for my little drilling hammer so I am replacing it with something I came up with while pining to get back to cutting. I hope you approve - 5# Plumb with a freshly converted mattock handle. When I get better I'll beat it hard to make sure it is good to go and figure out what length I want. Seems tight under light testing. Ron
> 
> View attachment 377450
> View attachment 377451
> View attachment 377452


I like old plomb or plumb tools ,cant remember when they changed to proto ,but i bet that axe head has some good steel in it ,anyone know how to date the old tools ? i am thinking 50-60 years old at least


----------



## Metals406

Samlock said:


> Magnesium. Helped me with the muscle cramps I used to have.


Funny you mentioned that, most of us are magnesium deficient.


----------



## SliverPicker

Some claim I'm just plain deficient in general. I don't listen to 'em.


----------



## 1270d

So Proto used to be plumb? I like proto tools.


----------



## Trx250r180

1270d said:


> So Proto used to be plumb? I like proto tools.


you mean stanley-proto ?


----------



## Metals406

Trx250r180 said:


> you mean stanley-proto ?


Never heard of him.


----------



## rwoods

Gologit said:


> Perfect choice.



Thanks, for once I got something right. As usual this useful old tool came from the PNW. I learned something in the process too, "ax" is apparently spelled "axe" by purveyors and by many west of me. Had to refine my vocabulary to reflect my new smarts. 



Trx250r180 said:


> I like old plomb or plumb tools ,cant remember when they changed to proto ,but i bet that axe head has some good steel in it ,anyone know how to date the old tools ? i am thinking 50-60 years old at least



I have always like the quality and balance of Plumb claw hammers which is what got me started searching for a Plumb axe; I don't know if they are still in business or not. True Temper / Kelly also made a similar rafting axe design. Probably other companies too but IDK.

Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

i am using a heavy kelly now, but i don't think its a rafting axe. i don't think they did that here........although it would make sense if they did......rivers every where.


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> Funny you mentioned that, most of us are magnesium deficient.


magnesium will cause cramping.


----------



## northmanlogging

Council still being made and still in the USA, any saw shop around here you should be able to get a 5# with a 28" handle for about $50. They have a 3.5# and various handle styles/lengths


----------



## rwoods

IIRC, the Council is based on the Dayton pattern which has a shorter poll than a rafting axe. I have seen a few short poll axes with busted or bulging eyes. I assume this is because the weight of the axe in concentrated in the cheek and the poll and eye may not have been designed for driving whatever the user had been driving. I don't know that driving plastic wedges can hurt a Dayton pattern. But I like old school and old steel so that is why I looked for a rafting axe. My axe didn't cost me any more than a new 5# Council with shipping. Just took a lot of patience to find as there are about 800 new "axe" listings a day on eBay. Those found with easy search terms are bid up pretty quick. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Ah, well the poll technically isn't supposed to be hitting anything, ever... its only there for weight, but when your in the sticks a hammer is just extra weight...

A lot of folks use an axe to pound on steel splitting wedges or worse a hammer to pound on an axe to split wood... both are bad for the axe and dangerous for the user, especially if its my axe...

Been abusing mine for over a year now, I've only sharpened it twice, once when new, and again a few weeks ago... after digging it into the ground pretty hard...
They shave hair when I'm done with em, not wise or smart for tool carried in the hand while crashing through neck deep brush... but so far only the one bad cut and that was from a bounce back while pounding wedges (second day I owned it or so...)

The councils feel like old steel to me, they eat up a file pretty quick, and a stone will whisk along, without digging in and grinding. and once done with the stone they take on luster that only good steel gets... soft steel looks dull and flat after a touch up with a stone...


----------



## paccity

any one want to do the math on this thing weight wise, in a 9 dbh x 20' long with about a 20% taper. young sequoia.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> View attachment 377642
> any one want to do the math on this thing weight wise, in a 9 dbh x 20' long with about a 20% taper. young sequoia.


Let's see 9 times 20, carry the 4 -- divide by 3.14. . .

Yeah, according to my calculations it weighs a buttload.


----------



## northmanlogging

13,000 plus, not sure about sequia, used western ceder as a calculator... had to remember how to calculate volume first, rather then BF...


----------



## mdavlee

Using 2nd growth redwood weight mass here's a screen shot.


----------



## paccity

damn , over 30k. i'm thinkin a little less. find out on fri. at least the crane will be able to scoot right up to it..


----------



## paccity

and i calculated at 108" x 60" x 20. 30950. going to haul it on a equipment trailer rated at about 25k . think im going to have to short buck the butt. was hoping to slab out some 20's .


----------



## mdavlee

paccity said:


> and i calculated at 108" x 60" x 20. 30950. going to haul it on a equipment trailer rated at about 25k . think im going to have to short buck the butt. was hoping to slab out some 20's .


You said 20% taper so that put the small end a touch over 80". I would think it would be a little lighter than that.


----------



## slowp

OK. I've got my Pointy Trailer home, and the fridge is fixed. Here's the new discovery, but I think it happened on the last camping trip. I was plugged into shore power and had a space heater going. There was a flash and the heater went off. I hit a reset button on the plug in and it started up again. 

I got the trailer home from the fridge repair yesterday. I went in to turn on the interior lights and nothing. The same for the furnace. I've got it plugged into the house now and it all works.

I'm assuming that I need to check the battery and then go on to fuses? I'm asking this because most loggers are pretty good at fixing stuff and maybe have had this happen.

This is the third thing to go wrong in a month's time with the Pointy Trailer. The first mishap is a total mystery. Oh well.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> OK. I've got my Pointy Trailer home, and the fridge is fixed. Here's the new discovery, but I think it happened on the last camping trip. I was plugged into shore power and had a space heater going. There was a flash and the heater went off. I hit a reset button on the plug in and it started up again.
> 
> I got the trailer home from the fridge repair yesterday. I went in to turn on the interior lights and nothing. The same for the furnace. I've got it plugged into the house now and it all works.
> 
> I'm assuming that I need to check the battery and then go on to fuses? I'm asking this because most loggers are pretty good at fixing stuff and maybe have had this happen.
> 
> This is the third thing to go wrong in a month's time with the Pointy Trailer. The first mishap is a total mystery. Oh well.




There might be a good used Casita for sale in a couple of years.


----------



## Gologit

A little off topic but does Primal Scream Therapy really work? I may need to use it soon and I'd hate to waste my time on something of no value.

We're moving and we've reached that stage in the process where a lot of conversations go like this..."Have you seen the...insert name of object...? " "Uh, I think that's packed in a box already". "Okay, which box?" "Dunno, one of the boxes in the garage. I think." There are forty seven boxes in the garage, taped, sealed, marked for contents by what the majority of the contents are. But not always.

Or..."Where's the....I need it and I can't find it anywhere?" "Hmmm...I think that's at the other house". Since the other house is three hundred miles away it kinda precludes running over there for a quick look.

These conversations are usually followed by one or the other of us going outside...alone...for some quiet time.

If Primal Scream Therapy really works it's probably cheaper than booze or Valium. It might upset the neighbors a little but since we're moving anyway....


----------



## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> Ah, well the poll technically isn't supposed to be hitting anything, ever...
> ...



That is precisely why I went after a rafting axe that has a poll designed for striking. Ron


----------



## slowp

Well, not primal, but exclamations of ALL RIGHT were emanating from the Pointy Trailer. I don't know what the problem was. It must've been a loose something. I pulled a couple of the little fuses, looked at them, put them back in, then for good measure flipped two breaker switches, then tried out a light, and it came on! All the two lights work and the furnace comes on so I guess I fixed whatever it was. No Casita needed, yet. For good measure, I looked at the water in the battery. All is good.

Oh, no big hammer was used. A screwdriver and needlenose pliars and flashlight were what was used for whatever I did....does that make any sense???


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> A little off topic but does Primal Scream Therapy really work? I may need to use it soon and I'd hate to waste my time on something of no value.
> 
> We're moving and we've reached that stage in the process where a lot of conversations go like this..."Have you seen the...insert name of object...? " "Uh, I think that's packed in a box already". "Okay, which box?" "Dunno, one of the boxes in the garage. I think." There are forty seven boxes in the garage, taped, sealed, marked for contents by what the majority of the contents are. But not always.
> 
> Or..."Where's the....I need it and I can't find it anywhere?" "Hmmm...I think that's at the other house". Since the other house is three hundred miles away it kinda precludes running over there for a quick look.
> 
> These conversations are usually followed by one or the other of us going outside...alone...for some quiet time.
> 
> If Primal Scream Therapy really works it's probably cheaper than booze or Valium. It might upset the neighbors a little but since we're moving anyway....


Moved again? Good thing I'm not in the midst of sending you springboard shoes. [emoji14] 

Did you go further north?


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Moved again? Good thing I'm not in the midst of sending you springboard shoes. [emoji14]
> 
> Did you go further north?



North and west. We'll be on the coast, south of RandyMac and north of 2dogs. And this is the Last Move. EVER!


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> North and west. We'll be on the coast, south of RandyMac and north of 2dogs. And this is the Last Move. EVER!


Good for you guys! :0)


----------



## paccity

i see the primal scream thing as a good ol riggin fit. while i try not to have them especially in front of folks. by myself i find it's a good thing to let it out and loud. i feel much better afterwards. although the other said remedies are not always thrown out.


----------



## Trx250r180

You auditioning for the history channel Bob ?


----------



## Metals406

I'd pay good money to watch Bob bullbuck them asshats on tv!


----------



## treeslayer2003

primal scream?...........does a screaming cussing fit count? if so then yes and no..........bad for BP but feels better to clear the air ......i guess.


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Hey is Huskstihl stihl on here?
> 
> Maybe some of you guys could help me figure something out. I have been having problems with my left hand. I run 8 hour days and when I get done and almost to the house my left hand draws up like a massive charlie horse and distorts my hand into looking like a withered claw. I am not getting charlie horses anywhere else so I am ruling out dehydration.
> 
> I fractured that same hand 2 months ago and didn't go get treatment, I could still manage to start my saw and hold it so I just tried to make it work. With the said hand healing from injury...the cramping of said hand feels as if my fracture is gonna crack back open...very painful even though it only lasts no more than a minute and only happens once or twice a day.
> 
> Have any of you guys ever experienced hand cramping such as I have described? If so, do you know anything I could take to help it stay away while the fracture continues to try and heal?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Oh and Randy...yer a bad ass, no doubt brother! WHOOT!


Doesn't really sound like carpal tunnel or nerve damage. You may be overusing some of the muscles due to the injury, but I can't think of a magic bullet (other than time and patience) to help it. If you lose feeling, or the meaty part at the base of u'r thumb starts to get smaller, that's a different story.
Good luck with it, and be aware I might not know much more about hands than y'all.


----------



## OlympicYJ

rwoods said:


> IIRC, the Council is based on the Dayton pattern which has a shorter poll than a rafting axe. I have seen a few short poll axes with busted or bulging eyes. I assume this is because the weight of the axe in concentrated in the cheek and the poll and eye may not have been designed for driving whatever the user had been driving. I don't know that driving plastic wedges can hurt a Dayton pattern. But I like old school and old steel so that is why I looked for a rafting axe. My axe didn't cost me any more than a new 5# Council with shipping. Just took a lot of patience to find as there are about 800 new "axe" listings a day on eBay. Those found with easy search terms are bid up pretty quick. Ron



Ron, love the old Plumb. What kind of search terms did you use? I'm an official axe nut, the better half and my old man just shake their heads... the old man is more understanding though. Once I have more disposable income I will start selectively collecting meaningful pieces. Until this summer I had been on the hunt for the perfect single bit cruisers axe; I'm happy with the one I got but the handle could be a little thicker for my taste. I have my eye on another of about the right dimensions. But my wish list is about 2 miles long and getting married (January) has made me realize most of it is just dreaming. I got into enough hot water with the better half after announcing my new toy (D4 7U) and subsequent plans to restore it. Again the old man was very supportive of that trade... hell he supplied the trading goods (hay) haha A new Barco falling axe is on the list too, unless I can find myself a nice Plumb like you have sir.

Wes


----------



## rwoods

Wes, 

I started with "rafting axe" but a lot of those aren't listed as such and the ones that are bid up fast. Almost same results with "plumb" "5 pound" "5#". So I just started using only "axe" and recently listed (so I could catch any "buy it now" - though I never found any of interest). I waded through four or five 200 item per page pages every day, put in multiple bids and finally hit on two. Both from the PNW - one CA and one OR. There is an axe collectors collection being listed a few axes at a time but the shipping is high and the two rafting axes listed didn't hit the reserve (both Plumbs).

As to handles, I decided to make my own from a maddock handle since I bought the axe for whacking not chopping. 

Ron


----------



## OlympicYJ

rwoods said:


> Wes,
> 
> I started with "rafting axe" but a lot of those aren't listed as such and the ones that are bid up fast. Almost same results with "plumb" "5 pound" "5#". So I just started using only "axe" and recently listed (so I could catch any "buy it now" - though I never found any of interest). I waded through four or five 200 item per page pages every day, put in multiple bids and finally hit on two. Both from the PNW - one CA and one OR. There is an axe collectors collection being listed a few axes at a time but the shipping is high and the two rafting axes listed didn't hit the reserve (both Plumbs).
> 
> As to handles, I decided to make my own from a maddock handle since I bought the axe for whacking not chopping.
> 
> Ron


I would hang my own as well. We can get strait rafting handles is what I would use. Thanks Ron!


----------



## treeslayer2003

handle shape counts to.........the hardware store handles i'v got are almost round and a bit fat. i lucked out and got a straight one at a flea market thats more oblong and a little thinner.........wish now i had got two or three.


----------



## rwoods

Haywire said:


> I used to have a sweet Keech Timberman. Heck of a nice chopper! Sold it off to buy some parts for my Bultaco.
> View attachment 377892



I'll trade a good Plumb for a good Bultaco.  Ron


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> View attachment 377958


From today JJ? Fix'n to get arctic on us. :0(


----------



## rwoods

How about a Plumb & a small Stihl for that Bultaco? Nice looking bike. Never owned one or rode one but always wanted one. Too old and too committed for one now, but a good street legal trail bike is one of those things in life worth repeating if we could go back in time. Ron


----------



## paccity

them bikes are worth coin. wished i had kept all of them . there pretty cool but some of them ol bikes even them Spaniards had there let's say issues. and they all had different personality's even in the same year and model. unlike a lot of today's cookie cutter bikes . but i would rather spend more time on a modern bike just for the comfort and reliability. alpina?


----------



## rwoods

Modern trail bikes just don't _look_ right to me. But I like single cylinder 2 stroke trail bikes, radials on airplanes, old MACs, loping big blocks, and revving Harleys. As a kid, I'm sure I wore a new groove in my brother's soundtrack album of _The Wild Angels _as I played it over and over revving the Harleys with the volume knob - my mother had to be a saint not to have killed me or smashed the record player. Ron


----------



## paccity

that bike should be over in the lefty thread. lol..


----------



## paccity

Haywire said:


> Yup. '73 Alpina 250. Not real fast, but climbs trees!


fast is not always better especially when your goating it . get's ya places.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Yeah, might be the last time we see 50 degrees for awhile, eh? Gonna screw up some tires for runnin' over on the lake when things freeze up.


Looks like a short snap. . . I hope!


----------



## paccity

that big Bering Sea storm is causing it. drying us out.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> that big Bering Sea storm is causing it. drying us out.


Those temps make total sense for the Bering Sea.

Plus, it's the butthole of Seas.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Dang! We had snow on Sunday, and today felt like spring. I just figured that meant summer must be right around the corner!


Oh I wish! LOL

Hope winter flies by this year.


----------



## northmanlogging

First dirt bike was a 1970 AJS 250 stormer... I still have it and someday I'd like to make it go again... think the crank seals are gone, and my drug addict brother got a hold of the carburator...

Its definitely had its issues over the years...


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> , radials on airplanes,



Here you go Ron...


----------



## rwoods

Thanks, I expected more smoke then I saw the title "new" engine. As a boy I lived across the street from a cropduster with a grass strip. He had a sprayer and a duster both Stearmans. Loved to watch him fly and loved the sound. Later in life, I worked for an airfreight company just when deregulation was taking hold. We flew Convair 240s that we had converted to freighters. The whole plane would practically disappear in smoke when you first fired them up. I can't remember what the hourly oil consumption rate was but it was a lot and we had to figure its cost right behind fuel cost. I'm sure the EPA wishes that ever radial was grounded. Ron


----------



## paccity

remember as a kid seeing one of these up in eastern wash, set up for spraying.


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> remember as a kid seeing one of these up in eastern wash, set up for spraying.




Now that would be a sprayer. Big payload and cover the ground real fast. Might be a heck of a fuel bill though.


----------



## rwoods

You're not kidding. A sprayer with a R2800 would guzzle the fuel. Our Convairs had twin 2800s and drank plenty just at cruise. Ron


----------



## madhatte

Ooh! Ooh! I want in on this!


----------



## rwoods

Nathan, you need an air boat that won't sink under the weight to go with that PW and one that is wide enough not to flip when you blip the throttle. My father was an aviation machinist mate in the Navy during WWII. He said the 2800s in the Hellcats had enough torque that a pilot could flip the plane over if he throttled up too quickly. He also told me that you could practically hang a Hellcat by its prop. Don't know if either is true, but I have no reason to believe otherwise. Ron


----------



## paccity

have herd that you could ground roll them if you gave it the beans to much on take off.


----------



## rwoods

That's what Pop told me. He loved Grummans - thought they were super tough and rugged. Ron


----------



## paccity

there's nothing like the sound of a big radial, at idle or full song. last time i heard one was 9 years ago at reno. accept the b17 that flew over the house last summer. they make noises that an inline just can't make.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> Ooh! Ooh! I want in on this!



Put a bar and chain on it!


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> there's nothing like the sound of a big radial, at idle or full song. last time i heard one was 9 years ago at reno. accept the b17 that flew over the house last summer. they make noises that an inline just can't make.



So right. When they first started hanging turbines on AgCats Gordon Baxter said that they took a perfectly good airplane and made it sound like a snooze alarm. He nailed it. 

Nothing, and I mean nothing, sounds like a radial. One of my earliest childhood memories is of my Dad and his two brothers team spraying with 450 Stearmans. They'd go across the field in a tight trailing echelon formation and when all three were in their turns at the same time it was pure poetry in noise and motion.

Later on they got some TBMs and tanked them for use as fire bombers. On a heavy-loaded takeoff that R2600 Wright with the prop in full flat pitch would rattle every window in the hangar.


----------



## paccity

it's a primal sound. that potato,potato idle is why harleys sound that way, basically two cylinders off of a radial.


----------



## rwoods

You guys have good tastes in machines. Ron


----------



## madhatte

My grandmother was a pilot, and I grew up around old airplanes and old pilots. I still look up whenever I hear a radial engine. She used to quiz me on engine sounds. The only one I can still recognize is a Kinner K-5, which means either a Fleet or that one Ryan trainer.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> They're showing 12° for a high on Tuesday up here!


Tis that mega storm in AK. Thank god it's short lived!

We gonna be cold!


----------



## Metals406

Kiss my grits Bering Sea!!!


----------



## Trx250r180

Metals406 said:


> Kiss my grits Bering Sea!!!


But it is a dry heat isn't it


----------



## rwoods

*Need some material for a new book*.

Given RandyMac has three books in the works and having long admired his measured restraint (most recently demonstrated in the _New Bore Cut_ thread), I am thinking of writing a book myself, _RandyMac, The Softer Side_. Think I'll ask Bob to write the foreword. But I need some more material.

Seriously, I appreciate Randy, Bob and those others of you that continue to contribute despite me and the other numerous boneheads that pipe off when we should keep our traps shut.

Ron


----------



## HuskStihl

paccity said:


> it's a primal sound. that potato,potato idle is why harleys sound that way, basically two cylinders off of a radial.


288xp is basically one cylinder off of a radial


----------



## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> 288xp is basically one cylinder off of a radial



Its one off cylinder alright...


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Its one off cylinder alright...


----------



## northmanlogging

Sachs 166 way cooler then that yo...


----------



## rwoods

Though I love the sound of old MACs, the idle of a 166 is my favorite. Ron


----------



## paccity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FFWwQJ9ep5w#t=34


----------



## HuskStihl

I dunno, it sounds beastly, but the 288 has got that "hot for teacher" thing down with the clutch drum playing the cymbals


----------



## northmanlogging

well I guess its a generation gap thing, anyone who remembers the 80's in fondness would probably pick the van hagar saw...


----------



## paccity

remember some of the 80's. i think.


----------



## slowp

Dig out the longhandles! 

We are supposed to hit 20 tomorrow night. At least we'll have a couple of dry days so the pickup doors might not freeze shut. I put those foam things on the house faucets that are outside, a light bulb in the well house, and drained hoses. That and parking the Pointy Trailer inside the shop ought to do for here. 

Good luck and keep warm!


----------



## northmanlogging

I may need to check the anti freeze in the missus, I've put some in since I poked a hole in the radiator, but I'm not sure its enough... thought I had a few more weeks to really worry about that chit...


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> I may need to check the anti freeze in the missus, I've put some in since I poked a hole in the radiator, but I'm not sure its enough... thought I had a few more weeks to really worry about that chit...


you and me both.........i need to check at least a couple rigs........or three..........i got to much crap, i better check all of it.


----------



## northmanlogging

The missus is the only one I'm worried about, she's up about 1000' or so now, they had frost there already, the rest of em have be left alone and should be ok. Missus is the only one that needed cooling system work.


----------



## SliverPicker

The prediction for today was less than one inch of snow. "Snow may briefly accumulate on grassy areas throughout the day today.". Yeah. We got 8 inches of snow in 5 hours. It's a freakin' winter wonderland for sure.


----------



## RandyMac

I better lite the stove, dropping into the 40s


----------



## paccity

RandyMac said:


> I better lite the stove, dropping into the 40s


brisk . lol. prob get our first frost to nite.


----------



## madhatte

First frost is likely here, too. A month late, even.


----------



## slowp

Apparently not. 35 here. Of course, it could take a plunge. I might pick some tomatoes and let them turn red in the house today. Or not.


----------



## northmanlogging

Anybody else notice winter is getting later and spring getting later too?


----------



## RandyMac

northmanlogging said:


> Anybody else notice winter is getting later and spring getting later too?



it rained into late June this year


----------



## slowp

Last winter was a strange one. I was up wandering around in elevations that I shouldn't have been at without snowshoes in January. Then the snow came. 

My memory has us usually getting Winter and a big dump of snow during elk season. That hasn't happened this year. The memorable one was in the mid 1980s when I'd been over to Eastern Warshington and what was normally a 4 hour drive was more like an 8 hour drive due to ice and snow. I had to stop and wait a bit because highway 12 had been turned into a helicopter pad. The snow was so deep that they were helicoptering elk hunters out.


----------



## M.R.

There only calling for a low of 10 here.
By Fri a bit of snow 4 -8 inches in the valley
We're almost a couple thousand feet higher @
4500'. 
http://m.accuweather.com/en/us/la-grande-or/97850/weather-forecast/41221_pc


----------



## paccity

my weather thingy on my profile is not right, 34 now, did not quite get there. all well. mother nature is gona do what she 's gona do.


----------



## slowp

My thermometer lied. It froze last night. No more tomatoes, not that there were more than 3. The wind is howling pretty good.


----------



## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> My thermometer lied. It froze last night. No more tomatoes, not that there were more than 3. The wind is howling pretty good.


Yup it's cold and windy up here but not like the Montukians are getting


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Well it bottomed out at -1° last night and it's supposed to get all the way up to 11° today for a high. But at least it's sunny! Haven't seen that damn thing in about two weeks.


Our new pad is handling this arctic air way better than the old one! Yay!!


----------



## paccity

sunny now but blowing. have a front coming in thurs that might make things interesting depending on how much cold air is still here. at least i don't live in the gorge , calling for 70+ mph winds.


----------



## slowp

Yup, not Montucky here. I cleaned out a space in the shop and the Pointy Trailer is back in its winter home. Strategic light bulbs are in place and on, 5 gallon rain gauge is emptied--I lost 3 of those last year when they froze solid, and the boys and I are ready--the Grapple Cat has a heated bed that is plugged in. We are ready for whatever. I don't think we'll be burning any furniture, nor can I see hanging a rope between the woodpile and house so I won't get lost in the blizzard.

Boy, it has been very windy here today. The Gorge must be horrible.

Hope you Montuckians are not blowing away! Hmm, if you were, you'd be headed in this direction. Bring elk meat, and cheap booze.


----------



## SliverPicker

-4 last night. Was predicted to be 20 above. Oops.

No heat or doors on the skidder. No heat or rear window in the Timbco. I was a frozen turd by the end of the day. When the mind is too weak to dress the part the body will suffer. High 20's and windy all day. Less wind and 10 degrees colder tomorrow.

p, that was the best post I've read in a while.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Power just came back on only out couple hours fortunately still blowing hard tho


----------



## 1270d

Should have twenty plus inches of snow tomorrow morning


----------



## Metals406

We were on the way to the boyz basketball game, & the SIL called saying she though she just had an earthquake. That's 2 miles from our place.


----------



## slowp

Haywire said:


> Will there be cookies?



Of course. Hie on...the wind is only going to last another day. Our power has not flickered...knock on wood, do the cross thing, etc. Oh, and bring a saw suitable for cutting a largish cedar. I noticed the limbs are getting kind of abusive to the shop roof.


----------



## slowp

A 4.0 if I read this right.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/#{"feed":"1day_all","search":null,"sort":"newest","basemap":"grayscale","autoUpdate":true,"restrictListToMap":true,"timeZone":"local","mapposition":[[33.02708758002874,-137.9443359375],[52.9883372533954,-107.22656249999998]],"overlays":{"plates":true},"viewModes":{"map":true,"list":true,"settings":true,"help":false}}


----------



## treeslayer2003

i didn't know ya'll had those there................well we had one a few years ago.........


----------



## paccity

Haywire said:


> So that's what that was?! I was hoping California had finally fallen into the ocean. Sorry, Bob.


bob and randy are safe, the big one takes sanfran south out.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> So that's what that was?! I was hoping California had finally fallen into the ocean. Sorry, Bob.


No such luck! ;0)

So you felt it too JJ?


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> i didn't know ya'll had those there................well we had one a few years ago.........


Mike, we have a huge fault line that runs under Hungry Horse Dam.

Earthquakes are super common here, they're just smaller usually. We could eventually see a big one though.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> The house creaked a bit, but the sound was the weirdest part...like thunder!


Yup! Inland e-quakes sound that way. Like thunder or often like a distant explosion. It's pretty cool I think!


----------



## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> Of course. Hie on...the wind is only going to last another day. Our power has not flickered...knock on wood, do the cross thing, etc. Oh, and bring a saw suitable for cutting a largish cedar. I noticed the limbs are getting kind of abusive to the shop roof.


Are you gonna have a Cedar seminar


----------



## slowp

Cedarkerf said:


> Are you gonna have a Cedar seminar



Thinking about it, but will consult with a local guy who has a PNW wedge. Maybe when he's got his wedge in the neighborhood he could swing by.


----------



## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> Thinking about it, but will consult with a local guy who has a PNW wedge. Maybe when he's got his wedge in the neighborhood he could swing by.


Sounds like a good idea


----------



## treeslayer2003

yea Nate, it sounded like thunder when we had a little one..............little one lol, my truck was shaking side to side. made me feel strange........almost like i wanted to spew. people in cars or running equipment didn't know it happened.


----------



## slowp

The power stayed on here. The innernet went out. I thought I might have to move to Californee where I hear tell they have innernet....South Park episode.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Power went out yesterday around 4 came back on around 6 went out again around 9 not optimistic that it will be on when we get home this afternoon


----------



## SliverPicker

11 for a high today. Did I mention that my skidder has no doors or heat? Spent the whole day in the thing and still have all my toes and fingers. 

Just double checked. Yup, 9 of each!


----------



## Metals406

SliverPicker said:


> 11 for a high today. Did I mention that my skidder has no doors or heat? Spent the whole day in the thing and still have all my toes and fingers.
> 
> Just double checked. Yup, 9 of each!


I'd be fix'n them air leak issues!! Brrrrrr!!


----------



## slowp

Do not despair. If your weather comes from this way, it didn't get as cold last night. It is a balmy 31 this morning. The TV weather fanatics even mentioned a couple of our little communities, which is only done when disaster strikes or is about to strike. Usually, our valley is hidden behind that colored bar at the bottom of the screen where they have the info about the area shown on the map of Pugetropolis. Or Seattle of the West. In this case, it was to announce that Pugetropolis was not in much danger of the White Death--put the beer and popcorn away, but our communities were and might even get freezing rain today. 

I went to a FS sponsored meeting last night. Even with the offering of free pizza, which was not paid for by the FS, only 3 people who did not belong to the collaboration group or FS attended. There was a lot of pizza left over. It was kinda like the old days. I got the fish guy a little riled up. I also got bored pretty quickly.
There wasn't an answer as to why, instead of developing huckleberry fields, we don't make small clearcut units, sell the timber instead of burning it up, and let the huckleberries do their thing along with the reforestation. 

Oh well.


----------



## Odog

SliverPicker said:


> 11 for a high today. Did I mention that my skidder has no doors or heat? Spent the whole day in the thing and still have all my toes and fingers.
> 
> Just double checked. Yup, 9 of each!


Have a high of 24 here today and wind speeds of 35-40 mph. It's 5 right now. No cab on my rock drill, just me, the wind through my bald head and a big a$$ cloud of rock dust. Oh the joys of working in the winter!


----------



## paccity

a little freezing rain this am but not bad should be all gone in a few hrs. never really got cold enough to get us good. which is good, i'll take snow or rain but i hate the ice. to every one thats getting it worse be safe and watch out for the other idiots that don't know or care.


----------



## HuskStihl

36 degrees this morning. In Houston! A state of emergency has been declared, but fortunately it looks like back into the 70's next week


----------



## slowp

HuskStihl said:


> 36 degrees this morning. In Houston! A state of emergency has been declared, but fortunately it looks like back into the 70's next week



I suggest you gather your family in front of the heating appliance of your choice, and read _Ordeal By Hunger_. _The Long Winter_ is also good--no cannibalism but I think somebody ends up burning furniture. 

Think good thoughts. I'm about to head out into the hurricane for a morning exercise walk. Must find winter hat....


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Do not despair. If your weather comes from this way, it didn't get as cold last night. It is a balmy 31 this morning. The TV weather fanatics even mentioned a couple of our little communities, which is only done when disaster strikes or is about to strike. Usually, our valley is hidden behind that colored bar at the bottom of the screen where they have the info about the area shown on the map of Pugetropolis. Or Seattle of the West. In this case, it was to announce that Pugetropolis was not in much danger of the White Death--put the beer and popcorn away, but our communities were and might even get freezing rain today.
> 
> I went to a FS sponsored meeting last night. Even with the offering of free pizza, which was not paid for by the FS, only 3 people who did not belong to the collaboration group or FS attended. There was a lot of pizza left over. It was kinda like the old days. I got the fish guy a little riled up. I also got bored pretty quickly.
> There wasn't an answer as to why, instead of developing huckleberry fields, we don't make small clearcut units, sell the timber instead of burning it up, and let the huckleberries do their thing along with the reforestation.
> 
> Oh well.


Making huck habitat is a great idea!


----------



## madhatte

Ah, but huckleberries aren't "endangered". Find a critter who depends on them who is "endangered", and all of a sudden clearcuts will be mandatory.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> Ah, but huckleberries aren't "endangered". Find a critter who depends on them who is "endangered", and all of a sudden clearcuts will be mandatory.


LOL

So sad, & oh so true.


----------



## slowp

I asked what size of "openings" were allowed--meaning politically, not by law. Was answered that 40 acres was the maximum, which I knew but then after pointing out that no way would they dare to clearcut that size of acreage, plus the facilitator/NEPA person mentioned that they no longer did clearcuts, got the answer of maybe 5 to 10 acres. 

On the endangered topic, a few weeks ago I saw an owl. I didn't have my glasses on, so it was blurred. But from the size--it was small and it wasn't terribly scared of me, I'd guess it may have been a spotted owl. But, it was in industrial timber land, on the edge of second growth and saplings, so it couldn't possibly have been one.
Probably just a small, tame barred owl. 

One of the Pinchot Partners also brought up another coveted and sold commodity that is becoming scarce, and that is Noble fir boughs. We aren't cutting those elevations hard enough for reforestation so the trees that are good for boughs are growing out of it. And so it goes....one size fits all "management".


----------



## madhatte

Uggh, I know it. We have taken to disallowing gaps greater than 1 acre due to recent research suggesting that 3/4 acre is big enough to put light on the reprod but small enough to suppress broom, while showing through LiDAR analysis that we've added some 70 acres of "Owl Habitat" in the last 5 years, even though there have been no reported owls here ever. The concept passed down from USFWS is that if the Cascade population and the Olympic population of the owl were ever to pass genetic material from one to the other, they'd have to cross our land. OK, well, that's all well and good, but what exactly are we managing for if the owls aren't here?


----------



## OlympicYJ

Call it a patch cut and they might perk up a little...


----------



## madhatte

We say "Skips and Gaps".


----------



## Metals406

We have Grizzly Corridors. . . Super dumb.

The bears walk on the logging roads.


----------



## madhatte

So... a logging road is a "Grizzly Corridor", then? Makes sense.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> We say "Skips and Gaps".


Yes, and those make for some interesting logging scenarios when it is skyline yarded. Sometimes blessing is given to put corridors through the skips, other times not. I'm starting to feel real good about being retired again. 

No white death here, yet.


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> We have Grizzly Corridors. . . Super dumb.
> 
> The bears walk on the logging roads.



They may have stopped, but we had to follow rules for grizzly bear management on the Okanogan. There were no known grizzlies there, but there might be some that might wander down from Canada. 

The North Cascades NP is considering relocating grizzlies into their park. Never mind that the experts promised that they would never do that. I want to know where the bears will come from and are they somebody else's problem bears? (Sarcasm following) I'm quite sure the bears will stay inside the park boundaries. They'll each have their own little GPS unit so they'll know when they stray.

Rumor has it, and I tend to believe it, that we've had grizzlies in the backcountry near here. I know of one sighting by a guy who is pretty down to earth, and wouldn't be prone to telling tales. It is how it should be. We believe there is a bear or two, nobody is out to harass and study it to death, and we have no special management requirements for it. The bear or bears are not bothering us and vice versa. That's how it should be.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> So... a logging road is a "Grizzly Corridor", then? Makes sense.


Corridors are bands of untouched timber, so bears have a place to talk and have afternoon tea.

They would never walk on a road or through a logged sale. That would be the path of least resistance. And as we all know, animals are dumbasses.


----------



## slowp

The Klamath area of Jefferson State has some big black bears. They like to poop on the roads because flat ground is pretty much non-existent elsewhere. We're talking about high centering when driving over it.


----------



## madhatte

ah, gub mint.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> The Klamath area of Jefferson State has some big black bears. They like to poop on the roads because flat ground is pretty much non-existent elsewhere. We're talking about high centering when driving over it.


Prolly cause they ain't got no corridors to poop in.


----------



## northmanlogging

I now have this image of bears waltzing down some logging road, on their hindies like a real person, with little bonnets, and maybe a parasol... speaking in very high minded british accents... 

Oh I knooow Bernard, the loggers just leave these trails in such a mess, I don't understand why the Queens Forsesters don't do any thing about this washboard stuff, it hurts my feet you know tsk tsk...

I think I may need medication...


----------



## northmanlogging

Uh by the way, the big fuzzy wuzzys really like them there blue huckle berries, could be an argument there for "restoration" of food stuffs...


----------



## paccity




----------



## treeslayer2003

oh thats nasty..........i hope the owl is iced too


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> View attachment 379548
> View attachment 379549
> View attachment 379550
> View attachment 379551
> View attachment 379552
> View attachment 379553




Thanks Fraser. Sometimes I get to missing working full time. You're pictures make me appreciate retirement.
Oh, and get a new chain on that Husky. Okay?


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Thanks Fraser. Sometimes I get to missing working full time. You're pictures make me appreciate retirement.
> Oh, and get a new chain on that Husky. Okay?


that chain has a few left in it. lol.


----------



## slowp

That saw should be waxed and contained in a case.

Northman, grizzlies aren't a topic here, yet. The easy way for the agency of No would be to ban all picking, except for the local tribal people. If it went your way, it might actually scare away some of the commercial pickers. Their handguns might not be big enough to give them a feeling of security. Those folks come up here for mushroom picking but pick huckleberries until the shrooms come up.

Still no precipitation here and it has warmed up a tad.


----------



## Joe46

Well after the wind storm I just got my internet back. Had a little excitement during the storm. Neighbors tree came down. Missed my bedroom by about 5 feet. Chain link fence took a punch though. Was not familiar with the tree, so had to check out my tree book. Near as I can tell it was an Alaskan Cedar. Never ever saw one in the woods. Had to have been planted many years ago. They also had a couple of Alpine Firs in their yard.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Another earthquake last night around midnight. I slept right through it My wife said it shook things pretty good for a few seconds!
> You feel that one, Nate?
> Saying 4.5 this time, a few miles from Whitefish.


Yeah, it happened right at midnight on the nose.

Woke Alicia up and she came out asking what just happened. lol

I told her an earthquake, and she ambled back to bed. I guessed a 3.6 -- I was close!!

Didn't feel bigger, but it was only maybe 3 seconds long.


----------



## northmanlogging

So I almost got all poetical yesterday, end of the day, sipping coffee listening to the ravens, and walking on a fairly nice load of logs, that hollow clack that the calks make in a log, in the distance you could hear the toot of a talkie tooter... Pretty good day considering I nearly died like three times, broke my spencer tape and forgot my saw gas at home...

Today was different... very large very hollow very hard leaning maples, like 6 of em... no one died and no houses got smashed (barely...) one of em tore itself apart while I was trying to get it to swing, probably 15 pieces before it even hit the ground... but it missed the garage, and the fence so I win right...


----------



## treeslayer2003

yup


----------



## paccity

woodhenge


----------



## treeslayer2003

thats pretty good


----------



## slowp

Wow. I understood that picture right away. Scary. Now, where are the druids?


----------



## 2dogs

In today's paper their is a letter advocating a water system be built to take water from the Cascade drainage system to either Lake Shasta or Folsum Lake. I have mentioned this before as it seems like a great idea and it will only cost a few trillion dollars. Washington is wasting the water filling up rivers and let it just run into the ocean. Folsum Lake is tiny so I would suggest the aquaduct go straight to the Los Angeles basin. Those people need to wash their sidewalks too. Thoughts?


----------



## slowp

2dogs said:


> In today's paper their is a letter advocating a water system be built to take water from the Cascade drainage system to either Lake Shasta or Folsum Lake. I have mentioned this before as it seems like a great idea and it will only cost a few trillion dollars. Washington is wasting the water filling up rivers and let it just run into the ocean. Folsum Lake is tiny so I would suggest the aquaduct go straight to the Los Angeles basin. Those people need to wash their sidewalks too. Thoughts?



This seems to be discussed during every CA drought in history. Yup, we don' need no salmon, or power, or river traffic. Gotta warsh them movie star's cars!


----------



## madhatte

Lawns, people. Get your priorities straight.


----------



## 2dogs

You're both right.


----------



## RandyMac

What is this drought you speak of?


----------



## treeslayer2003

the landing is a soggy mess and its blowin a gale.........i'm sick of paper work, im goin to get some new cable............


----------



## slowp

RandyMac said:


> What is this drought you speak of?



The leaves in my gutters were crispy yesterday.


----------



## madhatte

Couldn't help but notice that the smoke from all of the woodstoves hit the deck as a flat layer about 50 feet off the ground while I drove in this morning. I guess the ground still has a bit of heat left to give off. This is kind of surprising as cold as it's been the last couple of weeks. I guess it was an unseasonably warm October, though.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> Couldn't help but notice that the smoke from all of the woodstoves hit the deck as a flat layer about 50 feet off the ground while I drove in this morning. I guess the ground still has a bit of heat left to give off. This is kind of surprising as cold as it's been the last couple of weeks. I guess it was an unseasonably warm October, though.



The last three days, I've noticed warm breezes and pockets of air at my house on the knob. It does look kind of hazy out there this morning, even in our less populated valley. I'm guilty. I've got my doubly certified stove going hard at it. We've also got folks who torch off their slash piles because it is dry enough to do so.


----------



## madhatte

Cliff Mass agrees with you!


----------



## OlympicYJ

Been some piles getting away from folks too. Buddy down out of Knappa (ground in WA too) been fighting em yesterday and today. Outfit I worked for on the Peninsula had some get away from em too. Doesn't sound too bad.


----------



## slowp

My innernet went down! Two burns going on within sight here yesterday. It clouded up but no rain yet.


----------



## madhatte

Oh, hello, clouds. Is it warmer yet? Might be. Not sure.


----------



## Metals406

I miss the sun, but welcome temps other than single and negative digits.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> It's bittersweet isn't it?


Yes it is!


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Get your trusty snow shovel dusted off!


Oi vey!! We go from bitter cold to pacific moist.

Make up yer mind! LOL

Could be worse, we could be NY.


----------



## slowp

Rain here. Also coffee.


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> Oi vey!! We go from bitter cold to pacific moist.
> 
> Make up yer mind! LOL
> 
> Could be worse, we could be NY.


trade ya some cold dry weather for some wetness. besides the moistness will help you grow trees.


----------



## treeslayer2003

a chip in the eye still hurts.........


----------



## treeslayer2003

so i found a new kind of fencing/chain eater.........1/2" wide flat metal with teeth and twisted.......yea it will mess up a good cutting chain


----------



## SliverPicker

I once ripped a single strand of barbed wire that was 22" long cleanly in half with a brand new chain. One cut and the chain went in the hopper. It ain't fair when that happens.


----------



## KYLogger

Is that the stuff that kinda resembles barbed wire, bout half inch wide, serrated, and twisted. I found some of that out in the woods once a long time ago. I can see how that would ruin your day! LOL


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Rain here. Also coffee.



We had a 20% chance of rain today. So far, it's been 20 %ing since three this morning. We're back in the Sierras this week and we're glad to see the rain..


----------



## treeslayer2003

KYLogger said:


> Is that the stuff that kinda resembles barbed wire, bout half inch wide, serrated, and twisted. I found some of that out in the woods once a long time ago. I can see how that would ruin your day! LOL


Tom? i didn't know you were here lol. stick around man. yea i didn't even see it......chain wasn't very old..........


----------



## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> a chip in the eye still hurts.........


i discovered that last sunday for 5-6 hours ,good old cedar sliver in the eyeball


----------



## KYLogger

I come for a visit every now and again, when the old timers let me....


----------



## treeslayer2003

oh these guys are all right.......don't let um scare ya off, they bark is loud but they good ol boys lol.
hey show um some big tree pics in the falling pics thread some time.


----------



## KYLogger

Honestly, I kinda got burnt out on the internet last spring, and now that the cold weather has come back I am just now getting around to checking out the forums again......


----------



## treeslayer2003

i remember..........pay no mind to them kind


----------



## 2dogs

We have a massive California storm system So far we have received 3/8" and just might get another 1/16 by the time the storm blows itself out. My lawns are wet and I had to use the windshield wipers! I think the drought is over.


----------



## slowp

2dogs said:


> We have a massive California storm system So far we have received 3/8" and just might get another 1/16 by the time the storm blows itself out. My lawns are wet and I had to use the windshield wipers! I think the drought is over.



I think there will be plenty of rain so we can share it with you. The next week says Rain for each day. We have 100% chance tomorrow. Does rain ever give 110%? 
Snow is forecast for the mountains. Sounds like winter is going to happen.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> We have a massive California storm system So far we have received 3/8" and just might get another 1/16 by the time the storm blows itself out. My lawns are wet and I had to use the windshield wipers! I think the drought is over.



You better call Moonbeam and let him know.


----------



## RandyMac

2dogs said:


> We have a massive California storm system So far we have received 3/8" and just might get another 1/16 by the time the storm blows itself out. My lawns are wet and I had to use the windshield wipers! I think the drought is over.



We have a pretty juicy storm coming in tomorrow, might get a couple inches.

As you can see by this map, our little corner is "abnormally dry"
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/Home/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx?CA
LMAO!!!
I think Del Norte isn't really in California.


----------



## Samlock

I was wondering how come is it snowing all day, since the weather guesser said it's zero % chance of it. As I took off I noticed everybody else's cars had no snow on them and I was the only whitey on line. It was the lake throwing me a private show.


----------



## 2dogs

Went to Costco today and spent $468.00 and all the stuff fit in the top basket. Yeah there was a bottle of tequila and a bottle of Bombay Saphire and a 3 gallon box of 15w-40 and a shower head but all the rest was food. $7,99/lb for tri-tip.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Went to Costco today and spent $468.00 and all the stuff fit in the top basket. Yeah there was a bottle of tequila and a bottle of Bombay Saphire and a 3 gallon box of 15w-40 and a shower head but all the rest was food. $7,99/lb for tri-tip.



No crab? Gotta have crab.

Hey, I have a question for you. Why the hell do we keep answering those goofy "how do I fall this tree" posts? Some of the methods suggested by the weekend warriors are strange and some are just downright scary. We put in our two cents worth and it's mostly ignored or argued with. I think I''ll stay up here in F&L...it's saner here.


----------



## northmanlogging

trying to save lifes maybe?


----------



## HuskStihl

The good news is you and Brad now have the same plan for that tree. Great minds......

I'm maturing, so not gonna give advice there, but it's not like that tree is giving any option other than cut it and stay *really *light on u'r feet


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> trying to save lifes maybe?



I guess. Some of the advice the wannabes give is well intended but basically clueless. And some of it is just downright damn dangerous.
Okay, it's a given that cutting down a tree isn't rocket science. You wail away at that sucker long enough with a saw and it will come down. Somewhere. But most people in this business know that safely falling a tree is different than just cutting hunks out of it until it gives up and falls over. We've learned by mistakes, ours and other's and we've learned from the examples and stories of our elders. When somebody with more scars and less fingers than we have tells us something we tend to listen. We listen because, if nothing else, we've learned that we damn well _better_ listen. What we hear or what we see helps us survive. Usually.
I can nail a couple of 2x4s together but that doesn't make me a carpenter. I can take a welding machine and make a couple of pieces of metal stick together but that doesn't make me a welder. I can tie off a traumatic amputation or patch a sucking chest wound but that doesn't make me a doctor. 
Guys that cut fifteen or twenty trees a year aren't loggers either. I think that a lot of times they've had close calls that they didn't even notice...or recognize. Most of the weekend warriors are long on theory but very short on experience despite how ever many years they claim to have cut trees. 
I just wish they'd listen a little better when somebody who makes a living doing what they only play at tries to tell them something.
I know, I know...I'm probably asking way too much. 

That concludes our rant for today.


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> The good news is you and Brad now have the same plan for that tree. Great minds......



Yeah. I'm not really sure how I feel about that. Probably better not to dwell on it too much.


----------



## Metals406

Trees are ghey.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Box of oil? Is that like a box of rain?


No, no. . . Like a box of wine.


----------



## SliverPicker

Samlock said:


> I was wondering how come is it snowing all day, since the weather guesser said it's zero % chance of it. As I took off I noticed everybody else's cars had no snow on them and I was the only whitey on line. It was the lake throwing me a private show.



Heikki Luunta must like you.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Must be something new? I don't get out much.


HAHAHA

I was just kid'n around.

I'm sure it was a cardboard box with 3 plastic gallon jugs in it.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> HAHAHA
> 
> I was just kid'n around.
> 
> I'm sure it was a cardboard box with 3 plastic gallon jugs in it.



Maybe. It's California ya know. Could be darn near anything.


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> The good news is you and Brad now have the same plan for that tree. Great minds......
> 
> I'm maturing, so not gonna give advice there, but it's not like that tree is giving any option other than cut it and stay *really *light on u'r feet


your about right there.

hey Bob for the record, i normally go 40% on most faces........i just think that shell will colapse as soon as its touched.


----------



## treeslayer2003

carb aprooved container...............LOL


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Well I looked it up on the google, and it looks like they do indeed sell oil in a box now, no jug.
> So that begs the question, what are you supposed to carry your gas in?


Well, makes sense. We have QB's on fires (boxes of water).

We'll carry fuel in paper mache swans.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> your about right there.
> 
> hey Bob for the record, i normally go 40% on most faces........i just think that shell will colapse as soon as its touched.


If the measurements were accurate, 50" across and 20" deep. I think u'r "shallow face, fast backcut" is the only thing you could do. Or bore it with a deep face and 4" hinge (quintuple facepalm).


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> If the measurements were accurate, 50" across and 20" deep. I think u'r "shallow face, fast backcut" is the only thing you could do. Or bore it with a deep face and 4" hinge (quintuple facepalm).


i bet there ain't 4" of wood around that joker.......surprise the chit outta some one that hasn't seen that before.


----------



## SliverPicker

Metals406 said:


> Well, makes sense. We have QB's on fires (boxes of water).
> 
> *We'll carry fuel in paper mache swans.*



I think the beer that just came out my nose ruined my keyboard!


----------



## Metals406

SliverPicker said:


> I think the beer that just came out my nose ruined my keyboard!


I like to change lives. [emoji2]


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> i bet there ain't 4" of wood around that joker.......surprise the chit outta some one that hasn't seen that before.


 
Yup. Stove pipe. I hate those things. I don't know how the hardwoods are but I've seen fir and pine snags just collapse straight down or have one big piece slab out from the vibrations of the saw.

I think I'd push that one over with a shovel...Jon, that's an excavator with a heel boom and grapples for you Texas guys.


----------



## treeslayer2003

they act funny.........most hardwood has at least a slight lean or one sided top weight, so i never seen one come straight down.........they could do anything though..


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> they act funny.........most hardwood has at least a slight lean or one sided top weight, so i never seen one come straight down.........they could do anything though..



It's hard to explain. Most of the stove pipes I cut were burn salvage that had been left standing way too long. Lead and lay didn't matter because they were left to continue rotting. Some were pretty solid but some weren't. Sounding them with your ax didn't always tell the whole story and you had to stay on your toes.
Sometimes, depending on how hollow they were, or how rotten, they'd suffer something almost like a structural failure and fall apart. Big slabs would break off above you and if they broke off all the way they dropped straight down with almost no noise. Spooky. You went home at night with a crick in your neck from looking up all the time.
I usually asked for money when I was falling snags.


----------



## RandyMac

I felled some of the damnest stuff on fires.


----------



## Samlock

SliverPicker said:


> Heikki Luunta must like you.



Who?


----------



## KYLogger

I cut one yesterday that made my toes curl a little..............had about 1 1/2" of wood under the bark, leaning all to h#!!.... That one was the worst, we are cutting a boundary now that needed cut 15-20 years ago. A whole lotta heart rot. I hate Black Oaks..............that is all.

Tom


----------



## slowp

I think I will go back and stay in bed all day. It seems to be a dangerous day. Woke up at 3AM to ack, ack, BRRRAACK. The Used Dog had upchucked a chunk of bone on the rug. Took care of that. Then, after napping a bit and getting up for real, a splinter off a piece of kindling impaled itself in my finger. Latest goof--came close to dumping my computer whist standing up to let The Used Dog out. What more will happen?


----------



## 2dogs

Gologit said:


> No crab? Gotta have crab.
> 
> Hey, I have a question for you. Why the hell do we keep answering those goofy "how do I fall this tree" posts? Some of the methods suggested by the weekend warriors are strange and some are just downright scary. We put in our two cents worth and it's mostly ignored or argued with. I think I''ll stay up here in F&L...it's saner here.



Costco did have whole Alaskan king crab for $105.00. I will take a 5 minute drive and buy Dungeness off the boat.

To answer your question, it's because I'm stupid and like peeing up a rope. I don't even comment on things like this in real life. I don't want anyone to get hurt but normally I just stand back and watch it all happen. Besides how could I beat no face and a pole saw?


----------



## 2dogs

Gologit said:


> It's hard to explain. Most of the stove pipes I cut were burn salvage that had been left standing way too long. Lead and lay didn't matter because they were left to continue rotting. Some were pretty solid but some weren't. Sounding them with your ax didn't always tell the whole story and you had to stay on your toes.
> Sometimes, depending on how hollow they were, or how rotten, they'd suffer something almost like a structural failure and fall apart. Big slabs would break off above you and if they broke off all the way they dropped straight down with almost no noise. Spooky. You went home at night with a crick in your neck from looking up all the time.
> I usually asked for money when I was falling snags.



An easy very obvious stovepipe.


----------



## treeslayer2003

now i see why y'all call um stove pipes.........did the fire do that or was it dead or hollow before the fire?


----------



## treeslayer2003

wow, now i see why you western guys are leery of east coast guys.........ah, we ain't all simpletons over here lol.


----------



## 2dogs

treeslayer2003 said:


> now i see why y'all call um stove pipes.........did the fire do that or was it dead or hollow before the fire?



Just a guess here but redwoods down here are infected with heart rot. The punky interior will smolder for months and hollow out trees and downed logs. A redwood can live hundreds of years after suffering extreme fire damage.


----------



## treeslayer2003

it is a desese or they are just old? i spose old is relative when talking red woods


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> wow, now i see why you western guys are leery of east coast guys.........ah, we ain't all simpletons over here lol.



We know that. And, for what it's worth, we have our fair share of idiots, posers, know-it-alls, winos, dinos, and dingbats out here too. Were you around for the HBRN days?
It's not an east vs west thing so much as it is a bunch of people with no real qualifications or experience telling some newbie how to handle a bad situation. There are some highly skilled easterners on AS but their voice gets drowned out in the flood of bad information offered by people who's only real talent is being able to start a saw and mutilate a tree until it gives up and falls over.

The newbie doesn't know who really is offering good advice and who's not. 

2dogs advice is usually spot on, especially for hazard trees and other assorted cripples. I've worked with him and he knows what he's doing. More than that, I _trust_ him. It's too bad the ankle biters and wannabes don't pay more attention to what he has to say.


----------



## Gologit

Back in the homesteading days ( and no I'm not _that_ old but I remember tales from my Grandfather) the pioneers would often burn out most of the base inside of a Redwood or even a Redwood stump. They'd burn it slow, control the fire, leave quite a bit of the tree intact, and wind up with a big enough area to contain livestock. We still see these in the woods. They're called goose-pens and we still use that term in the woods today.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yes sir, he does. any man who's done any falling can see that. your right tho, new guys don't know who they talking to...........
no but maybe i read posts from the same dude under a different name........meh, after a few posts they show what they are under any name.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> Back in the homesteading days ( and no I'm not _that_ old but I remember tales from my Grandfather) the pioneers would often burn out most of the base inside of a Redwood or even a Redwood stump. They'd burn it slow, control the fire, leave quite a bit of the tree intact, and wind up with a big enough area to contain livestock. We still see these in the woods. They're called goose-pens and we still use that term in the woods today.


hey i'd love to see that..........if ya happen to have a camera nex time yer around one.


----------



## paccity




----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> now i see why y'all call um stove pipes.........did the fire do that or was it dead or hollow before the fire?



Most of the ones I've run across were probably healthy trees until they burned. On private ground they'll log those as quickly as they can.
On government ground there's often a long delay between the fire and the salvage. Sometimes the salvage never happens. Ever. The trees stay where they are and rot.
The trees go to hell real quick if they're not cut immediately, pine especially. The bark is compromised and the wood-eaters get in. A few years ago I had a contract to take out burned trees that were still standing three years after a fire. I think if the bugs quit holding hands the trees would probably have disintegrated. They were along a County road and it finally dawned on somebody that all the old burned trees that were falling across the road might be a hazard. More likely they were scared of lawsuits.
We went in and took them down but some of them were beyond...way beyond... the point of cutting safely. I had a good crew and if the other fallers wouldn't take the tree I very seldom found them to be wrong. The snags I had any doubts about I used explosives on.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> hey i'd love to see that..........if ya happen to have a camera nex time yer around one.



I'll be headed back to the coast tomorrow. I don't have any pictures that I know of but I'll see what I can find.


----------



## treeslayer2003

jeez, i'd hate to have to deal with that all day every day.........make ya bald lol.
the ones like pac just posted, can they get any thing out of that? or is it cut back to good wood first? it seems a shame to me to let these trees get so far beyond prime like that.........


----------



## northmanlogging

Them good chunks are probably close to 2' thick, they will tear it apart and mill the chunks.

Sent a 20' by 46"er in awhile ago that looked much like that pick and still got 800bf out of it, which is low and I know it... I plan on not sending anything to that mill ever again.


----------



## paccity

that one was not real tall but fat. fun to cut though with it moving around and such as you back it up. hell it moved some on the face.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Swapped this belt tensioner out of the truck where did all the bearings go made it home truck started making funny noise fortunately the pulley was captured between the bracket and engine keeping the belt on 
no other damage.


----------



## 2dogs

Cedarkerf said:


> Swapped this belt tensioner out of the truck where did all the bearings go made it home truck started making funny noise fortunately the pulley was captured between the bracket and engine keeping the belt on View attachment 381687
> no other damage.



Good thing Nate wasn't riding with you or your truck would come home in a box. And it'd be smelly.


----------



## Cedarkerf

2dogs said:


> Good thing Nate wasn't riding with you or your truck would come home in a box. And it'd be smelly.


----------



## madhatte

2dogs said:


> Good thing Nate wasn't riding with you or your truck would come home in a box. And it'd be smelly.



I'll get you for that.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> I'll get you for that.


Please stand down-wind when you do.


----------



## madhatte

I'll get YOU for that, too!


----------



## SliverPicker

Samlock said:


> Who?



Check Wikipedia. Its a localism.


----------



## SliverPicker

I worked for a guy in Arcata that had a shower built inside of a goose pen. It was the biggest shower I've ever seen. It was probably 8' in diameter hollow.


----------



## slowp

2.3 inches of rain in 24 hours, so far. We are in a lull right now. They've also upgraded the flood watch to a flood warning on our river. Ahhhh, a little bit late, but the storms of November have arrived.


----------



## madhatte

Kinda glad I make a habit of keeping a bit of office work in my back pocket just for days like this.


----------



## BeatCJ

Gologit said:


> Why the hell do we keep answering those goofy "how do I fall this tree" posts? Some of the methods suggested by the weekend warriors are strange and some are just downright scary. We put in our two cents worth and it's mostly ignored or argued with. I think I''ll stay up here in F&L...it's saner here.



I don't know if you noticed, but I think the owner of the split tree in the Chainsaw forum DID listen. It was just the experts that don't have anything to do with it that were giving you grief.


----------



## Gologit

BeatCJ said:


> I don't know if you noticed, but I think the owner of the split tree in the Chainsaw forum DID listen. It was just the experts that don't have anything to do with it that were giving you grief.



I noticed.


----------



## slowp

The power just went off and on. That's always entertaining.


----------



## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> The power just went off and on. That's always entertaining.


Were nice and quiet up here our winter creek is running full tho


----------



## BeatCJ

slowp said:


> The power just went off and on. That's always entertaining.


I was surprised a few weeks ago, we had people all over the Portland metro area that were out for several days, including people across the ridge from us. Ours was only out for a couple of hours.


----------



## slowp

Cedarkerf said:


> Were nice and quiet up here our winter creek is running full tho



Same here. The little creek is running, but wasn't full and the bigger creek hasn't gone through the barn that it goes through and the river wasn't even bank full. I'll check the hydrograph thing.


----------



## slowp

According to the hydrograph thing, and there is an instrument mounted on the bridge, the Cowlitz has entered the Minor Flooding stage. I think that means that the swamps are filling up, although it did look like the dairy farmer moved his cows up on a humpy piece of ground.


----------



## RandyMac

Our rivers are bankfull, even the Mad and Redwood Creek are runnin' mud, the Smith is steelhead color. Got 5 days or so of good rain coming, starting Thursday.


----------



## slowp

53 degrees outside. Here's our river at a glance. I think it behaved last night and just the usual uninhabited places flooded. 

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=sew&gage=raww1


----------



## slowp

Hey 2dogs, here's a recipe with Brussel Sprouts in it. I thought I'd make a gluten free cookie batch, but one of the cookie eaters said "Don't." He said there'd be more cookies for the gluten eaters if I made all normal cookies. 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/20...guests-for-thanksgiving-we-ve-got-you-covered


----------



## SliverPicker

RandyMac said:


> Our rivers are bankfull, even the Mad and Redwood Creek are runnin' mud, the Smith is steelhead color. Got 5 days or so of good rain coming, starting Thursday.



I used to live in Blue Lake. If the Mad is bankfull that is some serious water. The last time I saw that was '95. I remember seeing more than one dead cow on its way to the Pacific floating in the waves on the river. There where even more dead cows on the beach that year. We canoed the Mad from town to the ocean that year around thanksgiving. It was a quick trip.


----------



## northmanlogging

Well I guess I may have gotten fired today... for arguing... All I wanted was the work order and the print to match... what I got was a bunch of hand written numbers and called names... And then told to go home we'll get someone else to do it... its just tooling for airbus... lives depend on it no big deal...

I'll go in monday and see if I still have a job, if not **** em I got enough timber in front of me for 4-5 weeks full time, and some more phone calls to make.


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> Well I guess I may have gotten fired today... for arguing... All I wanted was the work order and the print to match... what I got was a bunch of hand written numbers and called names... And then told to go home we'll get someone else to do it... its just tooling for airbus... lives depend on it no big deal...
> 
> I'll go in monday and see if I still have a job, if not **** em I got enough timber in front of me for 4-5 weeks full time, and some more phone calls to make.


This might be that full-time window you were looking for.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Well I guess I may have gotten fired today... for arguing... All I wanted was the work order and the print to match... what I got was a bunch of hand written numbers and called names... And then told to go home we'll get someone else to do it... its just tooling for airbus... lives depend on it no big deal...
> 
> I'll go in monday and see if I still have a job, if not **** em I got enough timber in front of me for 4-5 weeks full time, and some more phone calls to make.



Might be a blessing in disguise.


----------



## northmanlogging

I left around 11, went home grabbed a couple of saws, went to the logging site... dumped a few trees, made a few logs, and presto I'm in a much better mood...


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Our rivers are bankfull, even the Mad and Redwood Creek are runnin' mud, the Smith is steelhead color. Got 5 days or so of good rain coming, starting Thursday.



The Eel is looking much better than it was last month.


----------



## slowp

We have the minor flooding. The lake has appeared and the loop road is not a loop until the water goes down. The Drink A Mug Of Milk A Day truck has to go a lot further to get the milk and I mean real milk. So, my part of the county road is not very pleasant for walking until the water recedes so the traffic will thin out. 

Northman, hope things work out. Maybe you'll have time to fabricate that small skidder we talked about at the GTG?


----------



## treeslayer2003

good luck to you northy..........you'll be fine either way


----------



## RandyMac

got another 3-5 inches starting tonight through Sunday, more in the mountains.


----------



## HuskStihl

You were always too big to work indoors anyway. Hopefully it works out in the way that winds up best for you and u'r famblee


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> You were always too big to work indoors anyway. Hopefully it works out in the way that winds up best for you and u'r famblee


Did he ever tell you about that one time he got kicked out of Jurassic Park for scaring the dinosaurs??


----------



## 2dogs

slowp said:


> Hey 2dogs, here's a recipe with Brussel Sprouts in it. I thought I'd make a gluten free cookie batch, but one of the cookie eaters said "Don't." He said there'd be more cookies for the gluten eaters if I made all normal cookies.
> 
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/20...guests-for-thanksgiving-we-ve-got-you-covered


Thanks! I'm sure Gologit feels the same way.

Rain? I can only dream of it. A few hours of drizzle is about all I can hope for. We are hurting.


----------



## SliverPicker

northmanlogging said:


> Well I guess I may have gotten fired today... for arguing... All I wanted was the work order and the print to match... what I got was a bunch of hand written numbers and called names... And then told to go home we'll get someone else to do it... its just tooling for airbus... lives depend on it no big deal...
> 
> I'll go in monday and see if I still have a job, if not **** em I got enough timber in front of me for 4-5 weeks full time, and some more phone calls to make.



Congratulations. I bet you can think clearer already. Peace on 'em!


----------



## 2dogs

I'll be running saw every day for the next 3 weeks...at the Lions Club Christmas lot. I decided to use the "bore cut with a pole saw" technique to keep myself out of the danger zone. Wish me luck and I will be back in mid December.


----------



## HuskStihl

Noble fir can chair, stay on u'r toes!


----------



## slowp

2dogs said:


> I'll be running saw every day for the next 3 weeks...at the Lions Club Christmas lot. I decided to use the "bore cut with a pole saw" technique to keep myself out of the danger zone. Wish me luck and I will be back in mid December.



Be sure to have ropes, tractor, lawnmower, props and barn (don' know why that came to mind) ready to use. Wear PPE including a full suit of armor. Be careful out there, they say it's the little ones that'll get ya.


----------



## RandyMac

slowp said:


> Be sure to have ropes, tractor, lawnmower, props and barn (don' know why that came to mind) ready to use. Wear PPE including a full suit of armor. Be careful out there, they say it's the little ones that'll get ya.


straps Patty, you forgot the straps


----------



## slowp

The White Death is falling. What shall I do?  Call the Weather Channel? Start chopping up furniture?


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> The White Death is falling. What shall I do?  Call the Weather Channel? Start chopping up furniture?



Get the plastic kayak out of the shop and go sledding? Heavy rain here.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Get the plastic kayak out of the shop and go sledding? Heavy rain here.



35 outside here so sledding isn't an option, yet. But, I'm going to a Thanksgiving dinner today at a higher elevation so might throw in the wood sledding sled. Kayaks don't do too well, nor do plastic swimming pools, or canoes. We used to have an Everything But Skis race up at the ski area on the last day. The ticket booth almost got hit a few times. A few pieces of modified living room furniture shot into the highway. The race was discontinued due to safety concerns.


----------



## slowp

Oops, it is sticking. The ground is white. I spoke too soon.


----------



## northmanlogging

4 inches here... looks kinda damp and heavy.


----------



## slowp

Just a dusting, so far. Looks like Seattle has a similar amount.


----------



## RandyMac

Front whipped through about 2am, beat things flat for an hour and moved on.


----------



## Metals406

Last two days were really warm and rainy. Melted all the snow and made a muddy mess.

This morning the cold front moved in -- 8 degrees and snowing again.


----------



## RandyMac

Fort Bragg, CA got a lot of rain all at once, downtown got flooded. Lots of yuppies whining about it.


----------



## northmanlogging

On the way out to the landing I came across a bit of road that had flooded the night before or some such... lots of cars parked in the ditch some with sticks and stuff in the windows... Tow truck was there to remove em...

Also snow sticks to the rubber soled calks... very annoying...

Tomorrow we go yule tree hunting... last check there was a foot of snow on the ground up there, that was last weekend... Have to go up high for the elusive silver fir... its always an adventure this year could be extra special...


----------



## rwoods

2dogs said:


> I'll be running saw every day for the next 3 weeks...at the Lions Club Christmas lot. I decided to use the "bore cut with a pole saw" technique to keep myself out of the danger zone. Wish me luck and I will be back in mid December.



Reading the posts in reverse order, I was just about to reply to slowp and RandyMac not to forget the pole saw when I see that you remembered. Gologit said you knew what you were doing most of the time. I see again that he is correct.  Ron


----------



## RandyMac

what you don't know can be faked with a high level of confidence.


----------



## treeslayer2003

rwoods said:


> Reading the posts in reverse order, I was just about to reply to slowp and RandyMac not to forget the pole saw when I see that you remembered. Gologit said you knew what you were doing most of the time. I see again that he is correct.  Ron


how you doin Ron? shoulder?


----------



## treeslayer2003

RandyMac said:


> what you don't know can be faked with a high level of confidence.


common sense helps as well............seems there is a shortage now days


----------



## rwoods

Mike, thanks for asking. My arms and shoulders are killing me - been driving too much lately and sleeping in a hotel. However, I am a proud granddaddy of my second granddaughter born on the 17th. Beautiful, dark haired and weighing in at 8# 1 oz. Tough little gal too. She was born with CDH and scared the daylights out of us. Upon discovery of the CDH, they immediately flew in a 4 person medical team from Vanderbilt. They packed her up and flew her to Nashville where she has been ever since. Through lots of answered prayers and skilled care, she has survived surgery and transitioned off ECMO (a heart and lung bypass machine). We are now praying that she will soon be weaned from the ventilator. Amazing stuff - the human body and medical technology.

With all the excitement, I have been too tired to post. Just as well as Bob would have had to calm me down if I had weighed in on Mr. Pole Saw.

Ron


----------



## RandyMac

I remember the audition for my first falling job, a big nasty DF snag, I used a gear-drive D.D. Terrill CS-7.


----------



## treeslayer2003

rwoods said:


> Mike, thanks for asking. My arms and shoulders are killing me - been driving too much lately and sleeping in a hotel. However, I am a proud granddaddy of my second granddaughter born on the 17th. Beautiful, dark haired and weighing in at 8# 1 oz. Tough little gal too. She was born with CDH and scared the daylights out of us. Upon discovery of the CDH, they immediately flew in a 4 person medical team from Vanderbilt. They packed her up and flew her to Nashville where she has been ever since. Through lots of answered prayers and skilled care, she has survived surgery and transitioned off ECMO (a heart and lung bypass machine). We are now praying that she will soon be weaned from the ventilator. Amazing stuff - the human body and medical technology.
> 
> With all the excitement, I have been too tired to post. Just as well as Bob would have had to calm me down if I had weighed in on Mr. Pole Saw.
> 
> Ron


you and your family have our thoughts and prayers Ron...........


----------



## treeslayer2003

RandyMac said:


> I remember the audition for my first falling job, a big nasty DF snag, I used a gear-drive D.D. Terrill CS-7.


that thing prolly stretched yer arms out longer


----------



## rwoods

Thanks. Ron


----------



## AKDoug

northmanlogging said:


> 4 inches here... looks kinda damp and heavy.


You have more snow than I do here in Alaska. We are getting our second snow right now... we only have 1" on the ground total.


----------



## AKDoug

Haywire said:


> Ducks or Beavers?


 thanks for reminding me. Time to drive the wife crazy some more.


----------



## northmanlogging

AKDoug said:


> You have more snow than I do here in Alaska. We are getting our second snow right now... we only have 1" on the ground total.



It doesn't usually last real long here, in fact I was a little surprised to see any when I got home, last check it was 19 def F on the wood shed, and cloudy, normally it gets that cold here its clear skies... the weather guessers said it would be cold and clear today... so far they where only half right.


----------



## madhatte

Huh. 20F out. Didn't expect that.


----------



## slowp

24 here. I was out visiting friends at a higher elevation where there was enough snow for the kids to do some sledding. Then the sun went away and salt had to be used on the wooden steps of their house. I crept down the curvy grade with no slippage and the rest of the way was dry road. I was dreading the drive home all the time I was there.
The sky is clear, the moon is bright and I think I have everything weatherized.


----------



## Metals406

Sounds like we're sharing some of this arctic air with you coasties.

37 for a high in about 4 days -- probably back to mud again. :0(


----------



## slowp

Maybe. The wind was blowing out of the east yesterday. Didn't smell like sheep.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Cold snowy weather the elk like to come andfertilize the yard we have fresh poop


----------



## SliverPicker

Our low so far this season has been -14. We have snow like it's mid January. 48 today! Seriously.

Depending who's yard you are in it always smells like sheep 'round here no matter what direction the wind is from. Winters are long in these parts.


----------



## northmanlogging

eeewwweeee


----------



## northmanlogging

Since I got winded out of falling today which means no skidding... and the log truck needed pulled out of the mud, I decided to run a couple loads of rock to the landing.

Fuel gauge in the truck does not work, or the temp, original oil pressure, I think the ALT gauge is working???

Anyway its been a few weeks since I needed the ole thing and I couldn't remember how many miles where on the odometer when I filled it up...

Ran my two loads without a hitch, other then the high range not working for the first 20 miles (ice?)... picked up the "war department" on the first run since the pit is the other side of the house...

Drive by like 4000 gas stations cause I wanted to hit the one with non ethenol fuel...











Tank holds 24 gallons, I put in 23.98...


----------



## M.R.

Whoops
.. http://www.kval.com/news/national/L...sh-with-100-foot-beam-284828031.html?mobile=y


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Since I got winded out of falling today which means no skidding... and the log truck needed pulled out of the mud, I decided to run a couple loads of rock to the landing.
> 
> Fuel gauge in the truck does not work, or the temp, original oil pressure, I think the ALT gauge is working???
> 
> Anyway its been a few weeks since I needed the ole thing and I couldn't remember how many miles where on the odometer when I filled it up...
> 
> Ran my two loads without a hitch, other then the high range not working for the first 20 miles (ice?)... picked up the "war department" on the first run since the pit is the other side of the house...
> 
> Drive by like 4000 gas stations cause I wanted to hit the one with non ethenol fuel...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank holds 24 gallons, I put in 23.98...




Might want to carry a spare fuel filter for awhile.


----------



## treeslayer2003

and or a two gallon can of gas............yea i done that lol.


----------



## madhatte

Just got a text from a friend. In this text was a CL link to an ad that read, as follows:

"Compensation -- NO PAY I have a ton of timber on my property. I want to get it logged and pocket some serious cash. Who should I be talking to?"

Had to laugh. What, does that homeowner think that both cruising and logging are free?


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Just got a text from a friend. In this text was a CL link to an ad that read, as follows:
> 
> "Compensation -- NO PAY I have a ton of timber on my property. I want to get it logged and pocket some serious cash. Who should I be talking to?"
> 
> Had to laugh. What, does that homeowner think that both cruising and logging are free?




Hmmmm...maybe you could hook him up with HBRN, make videos of the entire process, sell them to one of the networks, and retire a rich man.


----------



## madhatte

Yeah, I do believe I'm gonna hitch my cart to that horse.


----------



## northmanlogging

just where is this CL ad from...


----------



## RandyMac

I would show up, jackstraw it and leave.


----------



## HuskStihl

RandyMac said:


> I would show up, jackstraw it and leave.


Too late, BTDT


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> I would show up, jackstraw it and leave.


LOL

Awesome!!


----------



## slowp

RandyMac said:


> I would show up, jackstraw it and leave.



Were you on that gypo helicopter crew that was here a few years ago? The guy on the south end of the unit? 
Hey there's more emoticons but still no coffee cup.


----------



## RandyMac

LoL!!
I only jackstrawed one place on purpose.


----------



## madhatte




----------



## Trx250r180

You guys may enjoy this ,was found in my workers grandmas garage stuck in a book ,when they were cleaning it out ,this was hand typed on a piece of paper i scanned 
was maybe written in the 30's or 40's was about his great great uncle ,looks like Logging was similar back then as it is today ,minus the fancy shovels and whatnot 

There's a Simpson working circle 
Their headquarters are down in town
In their half-a-million dollar office
They are easily to be found
The ladies in their nylons
And gentlemen in their shorts
Are listening to the radio
And checking on the sports
They can sit in their warm office
And watch the fishes sw im
But they're depending on the loggers
To bring the money in.
They expect the timber fallers
To cut those big trees down
And the high ball bucker on them
Before they hit the ground
The rigger's high up in the sky
Taking the snow and freeze
While the rig up boys are making a noise
And really hitting the breeze
The hooker and the riggin' Slinger
Are out on that rough ground
A helping choker setters
The whole crew ' s on the bound
The punk he stands with a whiristle in his hands
A shivering Like a dog in the weeds
While the engineer without a fear
Keeps shifting to higher speeds.
The chaser is stout, but he's all pooped out
From pulling the slack he needs
The loader man with the levers in his hands
Is loading those log trucks
While the friver lads are sitting in the cabs
A thinking of their hard lucks
The boss with the rest is doing is best
And that I will retell
He's out with the rest, a doing is best
To keep that Working Circle from squalling to beat hell.
Now that Working Circ1e
They're aII good folks we know
But when it cormes to considering the logger
- We feel they're a little slow
Some of the boys say they fust neglect
And some say they have no respect
For the damned old dirty Logger
Who is out there in the wet
They furnish them a crummy
That's cold, dirty, and full of filth
And a rougher ridin' son of a *****
OId Henry never built.
Now to that Working Cirtle
The logger extend an invite
to join with them at five A.M.
And stay with them "til night
We'II pick a day that is raining hard
And the hills are covered with snow
Then water will be rinniry down their legs
Before itrs time to go
Soaked through the hide
And chilled to the bone, 
(over)
Werll load them in the crummY and
Rough ride them to home sweet home
By treating then so nicelY
In their water soaked seats
They might consider a crew truck
That's got cushions and some heat.

By Boney Loertscher


----------



## SliverPicker

Jackstrawing. Finally a subject I know at least a little about.


----------



## HuskStihl

Trx250r180 said:


> You guys may enjoy this ,was found in my workers grandmas garage stuck in a book ,when they were cleaning it out ,this was hand typed on a piece of paper i scanned
> was maybe written in the 30's or 40's was about his great great uncle ,looks like Logging was similar back then as it is today ,minus the fancy shovels and whatnot
> 
> There's a Simpson working circle
> Their headquarters are down in town
> In their half-a-million dollar office
> They are easily to be found
> The ladies in their nylons
> And gentlemen in their shorts
> Are listening to the radio
> And checking on the sports
> They can sit in their warm office
> And watch the fishes sw im
> But they're depending on the loggers
> To bring the money in.
> They expect the timber fallers
> To cut those big trees down
> And the high ball bucker on them
> Before they hit the ground
> The rigger's high up in the sky
> Taking the snow and freeze
> While the rig up boys are making a noise
> And really hitting the breeze
> The hooker and the riggin' Slinger
> Are out on that rough ground
> A helping choker setters
> The whole crew ' s on the bound
> The punk he stands with a whiristle in his hands
> A shivering Like a dog in the weeds
> While the engineer without a fear
> Keeps shifting to higher speeds.
> The chaser is stout, but he's all pooped out
> From pulling the slack he needs
> The loader man with the levers in his hands
> Is loading those log trucks
> While the friver lads are sitting in the cabs
> A thinking of their hard lucks
> The boss with the rest is doing is best
> And that I will retell
> He's out with the rest, a doing is best
> To keep that Working Circle from squalling to beat hell.
> Now that Working Circ1e
> They're aII good folks we know
> But when it cormes to considering the logger
> - We feel they're a little slow
> Some of the boys say they fust neglect
> And some say they have no respect
> For the damned old dirty Logger
> Who is out there in the wet
> They furnish them a crummy
> That's cold, dirty, and full of filth
> And a rougher ridin' son of a *****
> OId Henry never built.
> Now to that Working Cirtle
> The logger extend an invite
> to join with them at five A.M.
> And stay with them "til night
> We'II pick a day that is raining hard
> And the hills are covered with snow
> Then water will be rinniry down their legs
> Before itrs time to go
> Soaked through the hide
> And chilled to the bone,
> (over)
> Werll load them in the crummY and
> Rough ride them to home sweet home
> By treating then so nicelY
> In their water soaked seats
> They might consider a crew truck
> That's got cushions and some heat.
> 
> By Boney Loertscher


Weird that Bob and Randy aren't mentioned


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> Weird that Bob and Randy aren't mentioned


Bob and Randy were done retired before that was written.

[emoji12]


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> Weird that Bob and Randy aren't mentioned


 

PFFFTTTTTT!


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Bob and Randy were done retired before that was written.
> 
> [emoji12]




See above.


----------



## Gologit

Hey, my favorite emoticon is back...


----------



## madhatte

Just ground a dozen or so chains. Now I have a case of the ol' metal-filing post-nasal drip. On the flip side, I won't have any trouble meeting my RDA of iron or chromium.


----------



## slowp

I guess this is the forester one???


----------



## madhatte

looks just like me


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I guess this is the forester one???


 
It's close but I can think of a couple of others that might be more descriptive....., , ,... are all good. If you're in the sale planning stage this one might be appropriate...

I can't find an emoticon that says NO!


----------



## treeslayer2003

is that a short chain loop? is it sharp or is it Randy comin to hit some body with it?


----------



## RandyMac

treeslayer2003 said:


> is that a short chain loop? is it sharp or is it Randy comin to hit some body with it?



Don't worry about, you will see me coming for you.


----------



## northmanlogging

So I was totally making that SSD with dancing video today... complete waste of time... ****ing camera never recorded it... even used my little ms260... and a hammer thing... I feel bad for me...


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> So I was totally making that SSD with dancing video today... complete waste of time... ****ing camera never recorded it... even used my little ms260... and a hammer thing... I feel bad for me...


LMAO! i love to see that lol..............felt weird huh?


----------



## northmanlogging

All I got was a picture from my smell phone... Not only did it feel weird I felt like an ass while doing it anyway, and it was really ****ing slow, whittling away at a 30 some odd inch tree with an under powered 20" saw... Even took the time to hammer in 2 wedges for absolutely no reason... half a tank of gas in a saw that I might top off once a week regularly...


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> All I got was a picture from my smell phone... Not only did it feel weird I felt like an ass while doing it anyway, and it was really ****ing slow, whittling away at a 30 some odd inch tree with an under powered 20" saw... Even took the time to hammer in 2 wedges for absolutely no reason... half a tank of gas in a saw that I might top off once a week regularly...


i don't even like it on leaners........yea feel like an ass is pretty acurate.


----------



## 2dogs

A week or so back I mentioned a grove of redwoods blew apart in the storm system that dumped almost 30" of rain here in just over two weeks. I couldn't drive across the river cause the water is too deep but I could pretty muchly see what was left of the fairy ring. Three trees were down into the river and at least two were hung up. There is also a tanoak down just across the ford meaning I am going to get wet unless I can get the backhoe to push the tree away from the river so I can buck it. It fell right at the water's edge. The main trees look to be in the 4' range. I guess they are now large woody debris, aka trout habitat. Shoulda taken a picture I guess.
I spent the day repairing storm damage to the road. Man I HATE working the backhoe on a side hill.


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> If you're in the sale planning stage this one might be appropriate...



The only time I get that way is when the wildlife guys or the archaeologists find something that stops the show AFTER the planning is done and handed in. As long as I can accommodate them ahead of time, it's all part of the game.


----------



## Gologit

Today is the day before the movers come. 

I mentioned to my wife that it might be easier to just sell the house with everything in it. She didn't like that idea. 

Back to the packing and shlepping.


----------



## rwoods

I can think of lots of things I would rather do than pack to move. Of course there is always the unpacking of all the stuff you "needed" to keep - usually takes 6 or 7 years to get that job done. Ron


----------



## BeatCJ

I told my kids as part of their inheritance, they have to deal with it after I'm gone, I'm NEVER moving again. I ended up doing almost all of the packing and moving myself, other than the pieces to big for me to carry. The queen size bed was not one of those pieces.


----------



## northmanlogging

Is it bad luck to weld one welder with a different other welder? The gas drive needs some new fuel tank mounts... and the mig would do a better job...


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Is it bad luck to weld one welder with a different other welder? The gas drive needs some new fuel tank mounts... and the mig would do a better job...


This is coming from the guy who welds full fuel tanks.........


----------



## M.R.

Yep... Those Migs are sweethearts & can be
as fickle as a woman. Might want to make
her colorblind & remove that color of paint
back an inch on either side of the weldment.
Otherwise unless one got up on the other side
of the bed today. She might give a lot of porosity, 
birdnest, hunt between a short circuiting arc to global
Transfer & spray... 
.


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> This is coming from the guy who welds full fuel tanks.........


Full is good. . . Fumes are bad. ;0)


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Is it bad luck to weld one welder with a different other welder? The gas drive needs some new fuel tank mounts... and the mig would do a better job...





HuskStihl said:


> This is coming from the guy who welds full fuel tanks.........





Metals406 said:


> Full is good. . . Fumes are bad. ;0)


nah, weld away.........iv done it lol.
better full than empty............if it bugs you ya can drain it and fill with inert gas or water.........be sure to clean it good if ya go with water.


----------



## rwoods

I hear one of you had a bad day. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/viral/tractor-loading-fail/vi-BBhkvhv?ocid=oie8dlpg 

Is it true that a skidder is like a Timex "takes a licking but keeps on ticking"? Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

Tom? hope every one and every thing is ok.......


----------



## northmanlogging

moved the skidder today and its in the driveway now so it wasn't me

As for welding on fuel tanks... they only take off like a rocket just a little bit... then they don't catch on fire as much... but in reality welding on a tank full of any liquid is a pain in the ass at best, not enough heat to over ride the liquid cooling the weld. Its like soldering on a water pipe with water still in it, the solder melts and the rod burns but nothing sticks to anything.

As for the future, if its a small hole say under a dime JB it and forget it, other wise drain remove let it sit awhile and weld a patch on, then cover with more JB.

Just leave the ****ing lid off and point it in a safe direction, its when you contain an explosion that bad things happen.

All my toys are home now and the welder is running good now, so looks like I'll be spending the next few weeks smelling like burnt hair, and ozone.


----------



## Joe46

Landed on it's tires, no harm, no foul. As for the general operation the jury is still out!


----------



## Gologit

Perspective....

We're selling our home in the Sierras and part of the process includes a septic tank pump-out and inspection. Expensive.
The guys doing the work had to dig down five feet, through rocks and compacted dirt, just to find the tank. It's pick and shovel work because there's no way to get equipment to where the tank is. Apparently the tank was put in and the house was built afterward with no thought of access. The job became even more expensive.
During the inspection they found the inlet pipe from the house plumbing to the tank was cracked. Tree roots. It also has to be dug out by hand. Now we're talking serious money.
I was wandering around kicking rocks and mumbling to myself about the cost, thinking about cancelling the 661, putting off the cruise to the Bahamas,figuring how to go without food for the next six months, and even went so far as to consider selling off some timber that I'd had a too cheap offer on.
I was doing a fine job of feeling sorry for myself. I was doing fine until the kid running the septic crew told me that he'd have to put on a full hazmat suit including respirator and climb down into the tank to do the repairs. The tank will be empty. Mostly. That _mostly_ includes the stuff that clings to the sides and gums up on the bottom. He'll probably spend a couple of hours in there.
Suddenly, I didn't feel sorry for myself any more. Whatever we're paying those guys is worth it!
Besides, I've already been to the Bahamas.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Gologit said:


> Perspective....
> 
> We're selling our home in the Sierras and part of the process includes a septic tank pump-out and inspection. Expensive.
> The guys doing the work had to dig down five feet, through rocks and compacted dirt, just to find the tank. It's pick and shovel work because there's no way to get equipment to where the tank is. Apparently the tank was put in and the house was built afterward with no thought of access. The job became even more expensive.
> During the inspection they found the inlet pipe from the house plumbing to the tank was cracked. Tree roots. It also has to be dug out by hand. Now we're talking serious money.
> I was wandering around kicking rocks and mumbling to myself about the cost, thinking about cancelling the 661, putting off the cruise to the Bahamas,figuring how to go without food for the next six months, and even went so far as to consider selling off some timber that I'd had a too cheap offer on.
> I was doing a fine job of feeling sorry for myself. I was doing fine until the kid running the septic crew told me that he'd have to put on a full hazmat suit including respirator and climb down into the tank to do the repairs. The tank will be empty. Mostly. That _mostly_ includes the stuff that clings to the sides and gums up on the bottom. He'll probably spend a couple of hours in there.
> Suddenly, I didn't feel sorry for myself any more. Whatever we're paying those guys is worth it!
> Besides, I've already been to the Bahamas.


Yuk and I was moping about having to be at work after 2 weeks off for Christmas


----------



## slowp

Ooooh, I was wondering about that. 

I took bearings off the corners of the house and measured the distance to the septic tank and actually wrote it down, on the drawing, which is filed in the file that I know where it is. I think.


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, yea i ain't doin that. i did replace our leech field some years ago..........i ain't goin in no poop tank, no sir.
ha, they say our job is hard


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Perspective....
> 
> We're selling our home in the Sierras and part of the process includes a septic tank pump-out and inspection. Expensive.
> The guys doing the work had to dig down five feet, through rocks and compacted dirt, just to find the tank. It's pick and shovel work because there's no way to get equipment to where the tank is. Apparently the tank was put in and the house was built afterward with no thought of access. The job became even more expensive.
> During the inspection they found the inlet pipe from the house plumbing to the tank was cracked. Tree roots. It also has to be dug out by hand. Now we're talking serious money.
> I was wandering around kicking rocks and mumbling to myself about the cost, thinking about cancelling the 661, putting off the cruise to the Bahamas,figuring how to go without food for the next six months, and even went so far as to consider selling off some timber that I'd had a too cheap offer on.
> I was doing a fine job of feeling sorry for myself. I was doing fine until the kid running the septic crew told me that he'd have to put on a full hazmat suit including respirator and climb down into the tank to do the repairs. The tank will be empty. Mostly. That _mostly_ includes the stuff that clings to the sides and gums up on the bottom. He'll probably spend a couple of hours in there.
> Suddenly, I didn't feel sorry for myself any more. Whatever we're paying those guys is worth it!
> Besides, I've already been to the Bahamas.


I've installed septics, & repaired mine. Imagine my 6'-4" 230 pound self squeezing through that little hole. You don't need no dang hazmat or SCBA either.

Don't let them guys bamboozle you outta yer Bahamas money.


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> I've installed septics, & repaired mine. Imagine my 6'-4" 230 pound self squeezing through that little hole. You don't need no dang hazmat or SCBA either.
> 
> Don't let them guys bamboozle you outta yer Bahamas money.



ummmm, he's in California. Poop probably has been determined to cause cancer.


----------



## Joe46

After doing facilities work before and after my short logging life. I have many plumbing stories, many of which would make a goat puke. Out of the kindness of my heart I won't ever post them here!


----------



## M.R.

Ah! You bunch of softies! !!
Boot up & make the 25 yd. 
Dash to the outhouse. .. ;-)


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> I've installed septics, & repaired mine. Imagine my 6'-4" 230 pound self squeezing through that little hole. You don't need no dang hazmat or SCBA either.
> 
> Don't let them guys bamboozle you outta yer Bahamas money.



No bamboozle at all. I couldn't do what those guys do. I wrote the check with a smile. Well, maybe not a _big_ smile....


----------



## treeslayer2003

they made the ilegal here


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> lol, yea i ain't doin that. i did replace our leech field some years ago..........i ain't goin in no poop tank, no sir.
> ha, they say our job is hard



Yup, the worst day I ever had in the woods wasn't as bad as what those guys do. I hope they pay them good...they deserve it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

see my sig lol


----------



## BeatCJ

My dad use to own a mobile home park. The septic system was a pump system. He owned 3 pumps, and we swapped them out on a regular basis, not as PM, but because people flushed things. The worst was a doormat.

Every time we would swap one out, we would both be sick for several days. Yup, worth every penny of that check.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i can't like that cj........yuk


----------



## Metals406

Joe46 said:


> After doing facilities work before and after my short logging life. I have many plumbing stories, many of which would make a goat puke. Out of the kindness of my heart I won't ever post them here!


Pics?


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Pics?




NO PICS! Please?


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> NO PICS! Please?


LOL


----------



## Spotted Owl

Gologit said:


> Besides, I've already been to the Bahamas.



I've never met a logger that's been to the Bahamas. At least I didn't think I had. Did you stag off the cuffs on your Bermudas?



Wait. Wait just a min. Na. Never mind.



Owl


----------



## Gologit

Spotted Owl said:


> I've never met a logger that's been to the Bahamas. At least I didn't think I had. Did you stag off the cuffs on your Bermudas?
> 
> 
> 
> Wait. Wait just a min. Na. Never mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl


 Nah, I was the only one there with long pants. Legs as ugly as mine need to be covered up.


----------



## Metals406

My legs scare small children and blind when they refract the sun.


----------



## rwoods

Tain't nothing. I caught a glimpse of my legs in the mirror the other day and scared myself. Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

man i feel better, i thought i was the only guy with ugly legs lol.


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> man i feel better, i thought i was the only guy with ugly legs lol.


Nope! Lol


----------



## madhatte

My legs are beautiful, delicate flowers. I don't know what you yokels are going on about.


----------



## Gologit

Why are we talking about our legs?


----------



## northmanlogging

which I've been seeing a few hipster douche's that look like they came right out of this video... One of em was longingly looking at the crummy as I left a little diner...


----------



## rwoods

Fellow from the woodlot sent me these pictures from last week. Not enough detail for me to tell if he was standing in a bad spot at the time or not. Apparently the stump stood back up at some point. Wish I had been there to help. 








My granddaughters celebrated Christmas this morning. After seven long weeks, we retrieved the little one from the hospital last night.




Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

now thats a good deal


----------



## joesawer

I knew a logger that went to the Bahamas. 
He was a short round type of fellow. He came back and made the mistake of wearing Bermuda shorts in public. His knees could not be seen because his boot tops and shorts overlapped. He has been known as Boot Tops ever since!


----------



## SliverPicker

joesawer said:


> I knew a logger that went to the Bahamas.
> He was a short round type of fellow. He came back and made the mistake of wearing Bermuda shorts in public. His knees could not be seen because his boot tops and shorts overlapped. He has been known as Boot Tops ever since!



That's the funniest thing I've ever read at this site! Awesome!


----------



## SliverPicker

That right there is Double Cute. Merry Christmas rwoods!


----------



## Metals406

joesawer said:


> I knew a logger that went to the Bahamas.
> He was a short round type of fellow. He came back and made the mistake of wearing Bermuda shorts in public. His knees could not be seen because his boot tops and shorts overlapped. He has been known as Boot Tops ever since!


Beats get'n nicknamed Muffin Top. ;0)


----------



## SliverPicker

That conjured a visual I sure didn't need! Thanks 406.


----------



## Metals406

SliverPicker said:


> That conjured a visual I sure didn't need! Thanks 406.


You're quite welcome. LOL


----------



## joesawer

I guess Muffin Top would be better than Done Lap lol


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Fellow from the woodlot sent me these pictures from last week. Not enough detail for me to tell if he was standing in a bad spot at the time or not. Apparently the stump stood back up at some point. Wish I had been there to help.
> 
> View attachment 392491



Question for you guys that cut rootwads. I very seldom have to make that kind of a cut like the guy in the picture. Is he standing in the right place? If he finished his cut and the rootwad stood up it might be a hell of a ride.
On the other hand, if he made his cut the other way, between himself and the rootwad, he might have to bail out when the trunk dropped. Or is there something I'm missing here?
Let's discuss this here and not in Chainsaw or Firewood. I'd rather hear what the real cutters think and not have to listen to the ankle biters.


----------



## slowp

Cutting logs? Or firewood chunks? You pretty much have to start at the butt to cut logs, right? No ankle biting intended....


----------



## 1270d

It appears like he is just getting what he can from the top, then it looks like it would be best to step off toward the camera, undercut to bind then finish it from the top at arms length. Stump looks well loaded back to its hole. 

Seems like the safest way from what I can see in the picture. Curious what the others will think.


----------



## northmanlogging

Haven't cut many, but I try to stay on the ground, could be he was just cutting the top bit while standing on the log, then finished it up on the ground?

Most times the root wad will flip back into its hole... most times... other wise its a good time for a tall sideways stump, or leave it for someone more desperate.

Root wads is what power drove my ole basket case 046 2 feet deep in a swamp, trunk had landed uphill, once severed it just took every thing with it.


----------



## rwoods

As you know I am no pro, but I love cutting root balls. As I noted there is not enough detail in the picture for me to judge but if he were sawing through in my opinion he is in the wrong spot. Actually standing on top of either side of a through cut IMO is the wrong spot. I think he was on top simply due to the size of the stem. If he had no safe side, I would have told him to relieve what stress he could, cut up the trimmings and leave the stem and root ball to someone else. Generally, if this non-pro had been there I would have likely had him relieve the stress beginning at the top of the stem. From there we would address how much, if any, of the remaining stem should be shorten given the chance of rolling and/or standing up. Not having the time constraints of a logger, I have at times anchored a root ball just in case I misjudged whether it is going to topple or right itself. Ron


----------



## joesawer

I hope he did not finish his cut while standing on top. 
I would have decided what side I wanted to be on then cut it up as much as possible and then tripped it from that side.


----------



## joesawer

How do you anchor the rootballs?


----------



## northmanlogging

Hook a line to over/to the top of the wad, and back to something away from you. Decent sized rope is usually enough, 1/2 or bigger, coarse cable is always preferred.


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## rwoods

First understand that I mainly cut yard trees so I am almost always on flat ground and generally I have room to maneuver. With my limited skill set, it is usually safer if the root ball stands up. When I am unsure that this will happen I will rope across the top of the root ball down to the stem. The rope is then tighten towards the root hole by tractor or truck with the hope that I won't get squashed if indeed it wanted to fall forward. 

It appears that not only can NML run a saw he can type a lot faster than me.

Ron


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## joesawer

I have never seen this and am trying to visualize it.
You rig it so the stump can't move towards you?


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## joesawer

Ok so you make sure it is going back into the hole


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## northmanlogging

yup, basically a guy line for the ball.

I took a typing class in high school... I use more then one "faynger" to spell with...


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## joesawer

In the woods I have to read the tension as I cut it loose to anticipate which way it wants to go.


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## joesawer

Lol my fayngers are to fat for this little touch screen!


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## joesawer

A few years ago I worked on a tract of hard wood that had been blown down by straight line wind. Hundreds and hundreds of root balls over ten feet tall. Man if you ever wanted to hide something that would have been the time and place.


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## rwoods

joesawer said:


> In the woods I have to read the tension as I cut it loose to anticipate which way it wants to go.



The fellow in the picture is just a volunteer firewood cutter like myself. I was surprised to see his picture as I am not sure he has much experience beyond bucking firewood. Trying to read the tension is what I enjoy about root balls. But when faced with a 9 to 10 foot tall root ball, I will get out the 1" rope if there is any doubt in my mind as I seldom cut anything that has to be cut. Ron


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## rwoods

I said I love cutting root balls but hundreds and hundreds would satisfy my taste in a hurry. I'm sure you would have rather been falling them. Ron


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## joesawer

Being cautious is much better than being dead or crippled.


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## treeslayer2003

joesawer said:


> In the woods I have to read the tension as I cut it loose to anticipate which way it wants to go.


yes, this.........i have one at present job prolly 15' tall. i already cut it almost all the way off, it will fall on me if i cut it thru. i will use the skidder and "super choker" to twist the log free then the wad can do what it wants.
i know Ron don't have a skidder, so yea he is better off bucking from the top down......just expect it to upright itself.
yea Bob, imo that guy is not in a good place unless he is indeed not cutting the stem but some thing smaller on top of it.


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## joesawer

Yes I would have much rather been falling them. It was some prime hardwood and there was a lot of waste and dangerous as he'll. A lot did not blow over and where leaned at 30 to 45 degrees.
As soon as I got done with that tract I moved onto a tornado salvage it was way worse.


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## rwoods

Mike, I'll bet he was cutting probably close to his bar length from the top. I'll ask him about it. And if so, I will discuss with him our concerns. He has two young boys and a beautiful wife that need him more than folks need a little firewood. Ron


----------



## rwoods

joesawer said:


> Yes I would have much rather been falling them. It was some prime hardwood and there was a lot of waste and dangerous as he'll. A lot did not blow over and where leaned at 30 to 45 degrees.
> As soon as I got done with that tract I moved onto a tornado salvage it was way worse.



By my postings please don't get the idea that I know much, I am probably not even qualified to carry the saw for most on this forum. Nonetheless I have worked one tornado but I am not sure I would do it again unless absolutely critical - way too easy to get in over my head too deep and too fast. To clear a roadway, I cut a small tree off the telephone and cable lines which send a ripple down the line and dislodged another hung tree several poles away - it just missed hitting some of my fellow over their pay level volunteers. Before the day was out one broke his foot when a stem rolled; it could have been a lot worse.

Ron


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## joesawer

Unfortunately I have done several storm salvages. That tornado wood is crazy. 
I did one salvage after hurricane Andrew that was gravy. It was all straight line wind plantation pine all laid the same direction. I ran a processor just cutting of stumps and delimbing them in piles of five or six for the skidders. Flat ground and air conditioned cab, yep that was gravy.


----------



## Spotted Owl

Gologit said:


> Question for you guys that cut rootwads. I very seldom have to make that kind of a cut like the guy in the picture. Is he standing in the right place? If he finished his cut and the rootwad stood up it might be a hell of a ride.
> On the other hand, if he made his cut the other way, between himself and the rootwad, he might have to bail out when the trunk dropped. Or is there something I'm missing here?
> Let's discuss this here and not in Chainsaw or Firewood. I'd rather hear what the real cutters think and not have to listen to the ankle biters.



I hate having to do this. This is what I do. Tape it off from a good start at the stump. Then I cut the logs off from the top down to get rid of some of the problem/wait. If you think a chair is bad in a normal way, it's spooky as hell on the ground. Things will break, roll, twist, and plain ole be in a bad way all at once, usually a few going at the same time, in opposite directions. A standing chair you have some idea of what is going to happen, on the ground you have the immovable ground in the mix now. If you can break it down before you get to the stump a lot of weight is gone and less apt to go wild and with less force. When that wind came through on '07, there was a lot of this happening down way of the coast. Don't forget stuff on the ground when it gets to moving will chase you, depending on the ground, it may chase you for a long time. Be for sure you have more than one place to go when things get to happening, they seem to happen faster when your working this nightmare.

A couple tricks. If you can drop something(big) behind the root ball, helps keep it from having so far to go. Drop something on each side, helps keep the rolling to a minimum, buck all that stuff up first.. Kind of crib it up. If nothing else it will give you a possibly better place to stand when the inevitable comes and you have to make your cut at the stump. If you have to, short log the butt section, take the wait off the top and if you short log it sometimes it will stand up a tall stump you can cut normal. Short logs be darned if it makes it better and safer.

I don't know if this helps anyone. I do know at the end of the day you will wish you was still a drinker sometimes though, and you will flat whipped. One good thing though, it's already a pile of pick-up sticks, so what you do won't make it much if any worse. I feel worse for the loggers than the cutters in those messes.



Owl


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## rwoods

Spotted Owl said:


> I hate having to do this. ... *I feel worse for the loggers than the cutters in those messes.*
> Owl



I can't imagine much fun for anyone in a patch like joesawyer described. But there wouldn't be much work done if we just had fun. Ron


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## hammerlogging

joesawer said:


> I guess Muffin Top would be better than Done Lap lol


Nice to see you 'round.

new one for me, well done


----------



## hammerlogging

Spotted Owl said:


> I hate having to do this. This is what I do. Tape it off from a good start at the stump. Then I cut the logs off from the top down to get rid of some of the problem/wait. If you think a chair is bad in a normal way, it's spooky as hell on the ground. Things will break, roll, twist, and plain ole be in a bad way all at once, usually a few going at the same time, in opposite directions. A standing chair you have some idea of what is going to happen, on the ground you have the immovable ground in the mix now. If you can break it down before you get to the stump a lot of weight is gone and less apt to go wild and with less force. When that wind came through on '07, there was a lot of this happening down way of the coast. Don't forget stuff on the ground when it gets to moving will chase you, depending on the ground, it may chase you for a long time. Be for sure you have more than one place to go when things get to happening, they seem to happen faster when your working this nightmare.
> 
> A couple tricks. If you can drop something(big) behind the root ball, helps keep it from having so far to go. Drop something on each side, helps keep the rolling to a minimum, buck all that stuff up first.. Kind of crib it up. If nothing else it will give you a possibly better place to stand when the inevitable comes and you have to make your cut at the stump. If you have to, short log the butt section, take the wait off the top and if you short log it sometimes it will stand up a tall stump you can cut normal. Short logs be darned if it makes it better and safer.
> 
> I don't know if this helps anyone. I do know at the end of the day you will wish you was still a drinker sometimes though, and you will flat whipped. One good thing though, it's already a pile of pick-up sticks, so what you do won't make it much if any worse. I feel worse for the loggers than the cutters in those messes.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl


Unless its under a lot of tension, where an alternative might be developed (top back using standing trees as defense) then 1. he has a lot of cutting to do and its finished from the ground, and 2. its not that big of a deal, stump flops up and stem drops to ground, not that exciting, typical circular bucking cut. If I'm concerned about the rootwad on steep ground, I'll butt it off further down the stem so the wasted butt will prop the root wad from rolling. Remember when 2dogs said he got rolled over on day? don't want that! If its real sketchy I do a locking cut and hope it breaks free for the loggers. Worse than that, I walk away. best last case scenario to never forget is an option.

Owl- cool tricks


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## treeslayer2003

locking cut......i can never remember when the time comes


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## Gologit

Okay, lots of good ideas here. What Owl said about the tree slabbing out was very true. I don't know if the eastern hardwoods are prone to that but our trees sure are. On steep ground they'll slab, roll, slab a little more, roll a little more, break off the slab into big flying splinters....and all quicker than it takes to tell about.

The only times I've cut huge rootballs I always had a Cat available to nudge up against it and put a little pressure on it until I got done. Usually I'd finish my cut, the Cat would back off on the pressure and the rootwad would lay down. I've seen them rigged with a line but I was just passing by and didn't see how it worked out.

I just couldn't figure out if Ron's guy was in the right spot or not. It looked like an awful unforgiving place to be. If he was trying to make the whole cut from the top there wasn't any place to go but down.

LOL...maybe some of those YouTube videos of the guys bucking logs from on top ought to come with a word of caution. Like "don't do this if you don't have to".

Ron, tell your guy we're not bagging on him. We're just concerned. And curious.


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## joesawer

Hi Hammer are you still in West by God Virginia?


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## joesawer

Bob the eastern hardwoods I have delt with are a lot different. They usually have a fairly wide canopy that stops them from rolling and the steeper ground tends to be sheltered from the wind. The ground is also almost always a clay base they the football is firmly imbedded in. The root ball just does not tend to turn loose sideways and roll down hill as much as it does in the loose sandy soils.
The trees simply aren't as big on average and don't have the size and weight to them.
That stand of prime hardwood had an average dbh of about thirty inches and was exceptional because we could get two clean sixteen foot logs out of most of the trees. There where a few that had been skipped over in the last harvest about sixty inches dbh.
They don't split and rail and slab out like west coast trees do but they make vicious spring poles and mouse traps because they are more flexible and spring like.


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## treeslayer2003

joesawer said:


> Bob the eastern hardwoods I have delt with are a lot different. They usually have a fairly wide canopy that stops them from rolling and the steeper ground tends to be sheltered from the wind. The ground is also almost always a clay base they the football is firmly imbedded in. The root ball just does not tend to turn loose sideways and roll down hill as much as it does in the loose sandy soils.
> The trees simply aren't as big on average and don't have the size and weight to them.
> That stand of prime hardwood had an average dbh of about thirty inches and was exceptional because we could get two clean sixteen foot logs out of most of the trees. There where a few that had been skipped over in the last harvest about sixty inches dbh.
> They don't split and rail and slab out like west coast trees do but they make vicious spring poles and mouse traps because they are more flexible and spring like.


we have some sandy ground but its not usualy steep. some here will slab but if that happens you didn't start right. poplar will bust wile bucking if a guy don't know what hes doin but generaly ya just ruined a log.

joesawer, where did you fall on this side? what did ya cut? i am just curios, these guys seem to already know you........maybe i just forgot, i'm bad for that.


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## madhatte

Spotted Owl said:


> cut the logs off from the top down to get rid of some of the problem/wait.



Solid advice right there.


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## dhskier2

I'm no logger. I do hand work- PCT, private small acreage stand improvement stuff, slashing line ground, etc...
Slashing a line unit this summer with a dozen or so of these in the 8' range following a wind event. After the first one popped and stood up faster than I was ready for... like owl and others mentioned, I went top down on the rest of them.


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## joesawer

I took a few years away from here. I finally remembered my pass word and logged on.
I am originally from Alabama and have a lot of ties there. But I have worked all over the country. Mostly across the southern part but the past few years I have been north quite a bit.


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## 1270d

So will your west coast softwood slab off if you cut in till the bind then finish from the opposite direction? In a bucking cut.


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## RandyMac

1270d said:


> So will your west coast softwood slab off if you cut in till the bind then finish from the opposite direction? In a bucking cut.



Some are worse than others. You can lose a lot of value if you play the tension wrong, Redwood will slab easy.


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## rwoods

Bob, I will certainly be kind. I am glad you brought this discussion forward as I had forgotten the chair hazard of these oaks. A chair could have sent him and his WOT saw for a ride regardless of which side of the cut he was standing. Not that anyone should follow me but I have never stood on a stem while cutting a root ball free.

I have cut less than a hundred of any count probably half that so I claim no expertise but on our clay based soil I have not had a root ball roll free. Most stand up - some abruptly. Most twist regardless of the falling direction. Machine rooted trees seem to fall forward more often than storm fallen trees. Yard Maples seem to have bigger root balls and more weight but are less likely to chair than our oaks. When I said I cut down first I was referring to the canopy. Right or wrong I always start at the canopy to relieve stress and stabilize the stem. Though not cutting for logs, I do make as few of cuts as possible before freeing the root ball unless I have the good fortune of the root ball holding the stem free for bucking. Depending on my gut I sometimes start at the top and sometimes at the bottom. Usually know pretty quick if you chose wrong. 
Don't shoot me but I sometimes bore the root ball cut. 

As usual I have written more than anyone wants to read, but maybe it will provoke something I can learn.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

1270d said:


> So will your west coast softwood slab off if you cut in till the bind then finish from the opposite direction? In a bucking cut.



Sometimes... but not usually, like Randy said each one is different. Fir is fairly stable, but hemlocks will slab at times, ceder tends to do its slabbing on impact... Spruce isn't so bad, white firs are fairly stable just kinda messy with big ugly blisters full of sap... haven't cut any redwoods, if they grow this far north they are yard trees and no mill wants to deal with em.


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## joesawer

One fun thing about the eastern root balls in the clay is that after it rains the holes some times hold water till it is stagnated and gets full of frog eggs. It makes a lovely splash when the root ball falls back in the hole.


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## SliverPicker

Don't let the greenie meanies find out you are frog egg killer. They will take your birthday away!


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## joesawer

Lol they would if they could just for slaying their precious trees lol


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## joesawer

They plan and scheme my demise as they munch on their bean sprouts and baby spinach salad and smoke their weed, freaking hypocritical tree huggers


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## SliverPicker

While driving the most polluting POS on the road. Get behind a VW bus on a hill and your eyes will water.

Peace, love and holy grooviness, man.


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## SliverPicker

How do you keep money from a hippy? Hide it under the soap!

How do you keep money from a hippy? Hide it under his work boots.


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## northmanlogging

So I'm in between logging projects right now so I figure its a good time to bring the misses home and fix up her blade proper like... just a few cracks...

So I don't have any pictures and I've already cut most of the garbage off of it as of now, but try to follow along.

In between the "ears" of the old style Deere blades, it started with two massive cracks that extended about 3/4 of the blade down, former owner decided that just building up layer upon layer of bird **** would be enough for that part, its not. Now since the cracks started at the top, his first idea was to have a 5/8"? plate welded across said cracks just don't bother with welding those cracks that plate is more then strong enough...

Well it wasn't.

So after throwing on one more booger over the plate, that broke, lets put some 1/8 by 1" angle on there... that didn't work so we'll booger on some more crap, then weld on some rebar over the welds on the angle. 

Well **** that didn't work either.

So some 3/8x2" angle across the whole ****ing mess should really do the trick...

Nope...

This is about the time that I bought the ole girl, after a few weeks and some profit I hired a guy to weld some of the worse for wear cracks, those on the face and a few others. Of course that cost a fair penny, and those welds are worth every dime, but they didn't address the problem of all the scrap iron on top.

Flash forward a year or two...

My fat ass now has a welder up to the task and the time to deal with it right now, so I've spent the better part of 5 hours torching off all the BS that has been welded on over the years. Only to find out that the original cracks along the top that have been covered up by a mountain of cluelesness where never welded in the first place...

Tomorrow I'll see if I have any acytalen (?S?) left and torch off the rest of the 5/8 plate, maybe... got some backhoe work that may take the rest of the day...

My welds aren't pretty, they are a little crooked for the most part, but dammit they penetrate and don't have much defect, for the most part they even sit kinda flat. 

I'm not even getting into the gusset that was scabbed back on crooked... or the frame welds... that I'm scared too look closely at...


----------



## treeslayer2003

northy you got a dc welder? get some 7018 or better yet 9018 good rods, not lincoln junk from hardware store. turn her down to around 90 amps, ya should be able to do pretty good. them deere blades never where real strong. the 440 we had just had a piece of stout I beam with 1" bar teeth like a mini root rake. it worked well.


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## northmanlogging

7018 some crazy brand? from the welding shop... Debating whether or not I should warm em up first... So far the welds I've made on this blade are holding up good... fairly new rods... kept dry just not at 250 like yer supposed to.

ac/dc engine drive welder 225amp, come in handy a few times.

Took welding way back in high school, what I wanted to do before machining... kind kept at it ever since, had to get reacquainted with stick though, pretty much had a welder of one sort or another kicking around as long as I can remember.


----------



## Spotted Owl

I don't remember the numbers anymore, but some of them the oven was not such a good thing. Dry for sure. But, when in the oven long enough, had to dip them in a bucket or puddle to get the arc going better. 7018 is fun rod to burn. I never had a rod oven though, just some of the wrencher trucks had built in's. Some of them wrenchers have nice rigs.



Owl


----------



## BeatCJ

XX18 is Low Hydrogen flux, it doesn't like water. Harder to strike your arc, but makes really nice bead.

I'm not a welder, but my stepdad has has welded 100% xray pipeline all over the country.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i got some cheap over seas 7018 from the steel supplier, they feel like they are coated with some thing sticky. surprisingly they weld really nice.......better than napa ones....


----------



## northmanlogging

With any luck the backhoe job won't take too long and i'll be able to get it done today, backhoe werk is straight across the street, 1-2 loads of fill removed.


----------



## treeslayer2003

pics of the blade


----------



## Metals406

XX18 rod is hygroscopic, meaning it actually attracts moisture from the air. You can make a rod oven out of a light and cardboard box.

XX10, XX11 rods don't have a low hydrogen coating and can just sit on the shelf.

If you want to cut or gouge steel in a pinch, soak 7018 in water, and then crank up the amps!


----------



## northmanlogging

This may take awhile...

The missus don't fit in the "shop"



Left side under 5/8 plate, notice complete lack of weld.



Some boogers, the big glob on the face of the blade was done by previous owner. Plate is still on this side.



Some glorious boogers on the back side, this **** is like 3/4 of an inch thick...



Some of the scrap iron that has been cut off so far... dude was real proud of welding his name into stuff.



A broader few of most of the blade.



These where taken this morning, backhoe job didn't happen so I managed to get it cleaned up and welded before dark.


----------



## northmanlogging

Round two

This is the right side of the blade under the plate... I gouged some of the crap out of the crack but not as much as one would 
think...



A sorta view of the back side and the massive booger, and my toes...



Left side prepped for welding, that gusset was bent out about 3/4 of an inch and then scabbed on with some diamond plate,
kinda... not really...



Right side prepped as best I can, gonna need to build up a lot of metal for this side.


----------



## northmanlogging

But wait there's more!

They may not be the prettiest welds or straight for that mater, but by gods they burned deep and clean.



As predicted it burned through pretty bad here, tis ok there was some ugly ass inclusions in the old welds.



The back side while not something to be real proud of at least I'm confident it will hold this time...



There is still some cleanup stuff to do, and hopefully I don't find more cracks under that, but for now I'm done with it toss some paint on to keep the elements at bay and call it a day.

By the way I know they aren't real straight and a little on the bogey side but if you feel the need to mention it whatever...


----------



## northmanlogging

By the way the rods where from pinnacle alloys? made in tex ass... burned pretty good...


----------



## treeslayer2003

your a little hot..........it will hold though.


----------



## rwoods

Today, I spoke with my fellow cutter about his root ball cut. As suspected, he said he cut partially through while standing on the stem (on the top side of cut) and finished the cut from the ground. I told him that wasn’t a good idea and explained the risk of being tossed with saw in hand. A professional tree service guy was there and he confirmed the same. He said he understood. He had more pictures on his phone that I assume his son took. The top had been cut from the tree and the stem appeared to be well supported which would have counter any tendency to slab or roll. Nonetheless we cautioned him not to stand on a stem while cutting a root ball free and that one good fortune doesn’t always repeat itself. He also had a video of the stump snapping upward abruptly. He didn’t need any further commentary as this risk got his attention.

Please further indulge me with your thoughts on this fairly frequent occurrence. It seems that often with 2 foot or so diameter stems that once cut free the stem drops, the root ball raises and they bind with your saw or wedge resulting in a cocked gun. The heavier trees usually muscle on pass. I know you can shorten the stem before cutting the root ball to lessen this possibility but I have resorted to the cut sketched below although I feel like am doing something foolish (final cut is usually upward from below). Am I fooling myself, and short of machinery is there a better way to prevent binding?

Thanks, Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

i think there is a step or dove tail or some thing like that for those..........i always had a skidder.........i'm sure some one here knows for sure what the best way is.


----------



## northmanlogging

Under buck, maybe ad yer knotch if its big enough to warrant it, and finish from the top, if the stump is going to back in its hole, reverse if you think its going to roll onto you.


----------



## rwoods

Well that settles it. I need to move the skidder higher up on my firewood toy list. 

Seriously, I was hoping there would be a more efficient way to reliably cut a root ball free. If I don't notch the top and I cut from the top a lot of these stems will pinch the bar at a certain point when the weight of the stem bends the hinge and pulls the root ball towards you - if you can power through then when the hinge is severed the root ball usually moves upward sometimes binding the bar against the stem if I'm not quick enough to get out of the cut. A wedge can prevents this but as I stated it sometimes causes the same bind between the severed stem and the root ball and cocks the gun so to speak; if I notch the top to prevent this later bind then there usually isn't room for the wedge. Given I don't always guess right, my bottom notch is a mirror image of the top notch but I feel like I am doing a lot of extra per-cautionary cutting. 

Ron


----------



## slowp

Page 72, the offset cut. I was taught to use it to slow things down a hair. I just have to ponder a bit before doing it.

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf06672805/pdf06672805dpi300.pdf


----------



## joesawer

I can't open that page slowp. I have a crappy server.
rwoods if your stump moves up to fall in the hole and hangs on the butt like a trigger sear, put your cuts in at an angle with the top away from the stump and the bottom closer. It usually does not take much angle at all. And make sure if your cuts don't line up that the bottom cut is slightly closer to the stump so that the step does not catch the butt or your saw bar as it swings up.


----------



## slowp

My first computer art and done left handed. Here's the offset cut. Note the log is levitating.




That horizontal part breaks off. The rootwad/butt side will drop first.


----------



## joesawer

That is exactly what I was trying to describe if you add just a little angle to the cuts. 
The angle is usually not needed as the stump usually moves away from the butt if it is falling back into the hole


----------



## slowp

It works. I've only done it a few times. Hmmm, this is a good review.


----------



## treeslayer2003

slowp said:


> My first computer art and done left handed. Here's the offset cut. Note the log is levitating.
> 
> View attachment 395670
> 
> 
> That horizontal part breaks off. The rootwad/butt side will drop first.


yes step.........now whats the other one........more complicated.......one of you western folks talked about it a year or so ago. its now lost some where in the back of mah brain under some shop manuals........

some thing about it would keep the log from rolling down hill


----------



## rwoods

Joesawyer, if I am reading you right I just need the angled cuts and skip all the notching. Correct?

slowp, if the root ball end is rising instead of falling shouldn't my cuts be the opposite that you drew? 

Thanks, Ron


----------



## slowp

rwoods said:


> Joesawyer, if I am reading you right I just need the angled cuts and skip all the notching. Correct?
> 
> slowp, if the root ball end is rising instead of falling shouldn't my cuts be the opposite that you drew?
> 
> Thanks, Ron



It seems logical. Like I said, this cut takes me a bit of time to ponder before cutting.


----------



## SliverPicker

Just an angle works. There's no need for the notches. Keep your head back. Those roots can stand up in a hurry.


----------



## rwoods

slowp said:


> It seems logical. Like I said, this cut takes me a bit of time to ponder before cutting.



I get to chasing my tail and scratching my head a lot with all my notching every time I come across one that I think will tip forward on me.



SliverPicker said:


> Just an angle works. There's no need for the notches. Keep your head back. Those roots can stand up in a hurry.



Thanks. The quick stand up is why I typically cut close to the stump. Of course this increases the chance of getting squashed if you judged wrong and the rootball falls towards you as there is little to no leg to catch it.

All of the variables is what makes the challenge appealing to me.

Ron


----------



## rwoods

I will add for the benefit of other non-pros like myself who trespass over here that we are discussing the simplest of root ball presentation with a stabilized stem. With a stablished stem, another tip to help protect your head is to cut with the root ball to your right if you have that choice and all else is equal.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

decided to get the cutting edge cut off the backhoe today... stopped grinding right around 3pm, then there where lots of distant explosions, what sounded like sirens, and gunfire...

I guess the Seahawks are going to the super bowl?

With my earplugs out it turned out to be just screaming and fireworks...


----------



## joesawer

I don't think it is a western thing BUT if you think the stump is going to move towards you, stand on the other side.
The tree will tell you if the stump is going to stand up or roll on over before you cut it off. Read the tension in the trunk as you cut it which you need to do to avoid pinching or slabbing.


----------



## Gypo Logger

slowp said:


> Since we have started a new year, we should strive for a more positive outlook. The purpose of this thread is for
> 
> WHINING, as only foresters and loggers know how to do. But the new title puts a positive spin on our ordinary whining and therefore unwhines it.....
> 
> Continue on. What analytical processes did you go through today?
> 
> My feet got wet today.


The way I see it Slowp, we can all sit back at our age and listen to the trees growing. Trees like a garden need to be weeded out and if we want carrots we should weed our garden. Trees are glorified grass and we can't stop them from growing. It would be nice if I could address you with a first name.
John


----------



## Gologit

Urban interface.  I have three loads of pine to cut this morning in an area of expensive mansions, 20 acre minimum lot size, and gated access.
We're not allowed to start a saw until after 8 a.m. and the trucks can't come in until after 9. 
The Forester who's over-seeing the job just shakes his head and mumbles a lot.
After I'm done cutting, skidding, loading, and hauling , another outfit comes in. The brush will be chipped, the stumps removed, the cutting area raked, graded and reseeded to grass.
Instant non-forest. None of that "so ugly, just logged look"... the actual the words of one of the neighbors.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> Urban interface.  I have three loads of pine to cut this morning in an area of expensive mansions, 20 acre minimum lot size, and gated access.
> We're not allowed to start a saw until after 8 a.m. and the trucks can't come in until after 9.
> The Forester who's over-seeing the job just shakes his head and mumbles a lot.
> After I'm done cutting, skidding, loading, and hauling , another outfit comes in. The brush will be chipped, the stumps removed, the cutting area raked, graded and reseeded to grass.
> Instant non-forest. None of that "so ugly, just logged look"... the actual the words of one of the neighbors.


You should have swung by and brought Northman to help. If they thought the "so ugly, just logged look" was scary............


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> You should have swung by and brought Northman to help. If they thought the "so ugly, just logged look" was scary............




Nah, he'd be a big help but he'd probably eat up all the donettos and drink what's left of the coffee. I only brought enough for me and the guy on the skidder.
It's daylight, I'm pacing back and forth...we should be doing something, dammit.


----------



## HuskStihl

Actually, it would be worse to be logging on my property. Just imagine _Wow, is that a Humboldt?! Are you going to snipe that face?! What does that machine do?! Can I try your saw?! Could you start it for me?! What's Jasha like?!_
All day long.


----------



## treeslayer2003

3 loads Bob? hope ya get paid good for that.


----------



## BeatCJ

Gologit said:


> ...and the guy on the skidder...


You get to use a skidder in there? I would think it would have to be loaded directly onto the trucks. I bet your forester had to negotiate pretty hard for that.

I've always hated the jobs I have worked on with morning noise restrictions.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> 3 loads Bob? hope ya get paid good for that.


 It wasn't that much of a day. Eighteen trees...Ponderosa... made three loads and all the trucks went out heavy. One self loader and two regular logging trucks. I don't know what the logs sold for, I was just hired help on this one, but I was more than happy with my day rate.

Here's a shot of one with a tapered hinge that went where it was supposed to but turned out ugly. I'll have to talk to my wife/photographer about just taking pictures of the pretty ones instead of this mess.



http://vid691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/gologit/P2050287_zpsd6mkk63s.mp4


----------



## slowp

Wow! That ground suddenly got steep. Must've been an earthquake?


----------



## Gologit

BeatCJ said:


> You get to use a skidder in there? I would think it would have to be loaded directly onto the trucks. I bet your forester had to negotiate pretty hard for that.
> 
> I've always hated the jobs I have worked on with morning noise restrictions.


 
We had to have a skidder. It had to be a very quiet skidder. The trees were scattered but all the skidder had to do was roadside them. The self loader loaded the first two trucks and then himself. Easy day.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Wow! That ground suddenly got steep. Must've been an earthquake?


 You'll have to talk to the photographer. She comes from a logging family and she's seen trees go sideways a time or two. The farther I get sawed up the more nervous she gets.


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, pulled out the stump, all is well. i thought my saws were slow, bout the same as yers lol.

i didn't know ya could do a vid that way.........guess ima have to figure out how to do it one day.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> lol, pulled out the stump, all is well. i thought my saws were slow, bout the same as yers lol.
> 
> i didn't know ya could do a vid that way.........guess ima have to figure out how to do it one day.


Yup, I put a little fancy cut on that side before I started 'cause I didn't have quite enough bar to go clear through and I didn't want to be doing the Swedish Stump Dance. There was several years of pine needles and duff for footing and it was like trying to walk on ball bearings, even with calks. Like I said, that one was ugly but my wife says the good ones are boring. LOL...she knows.
That saw is slow compared to more modern equipment. It's a PM850 that Eccentric and some other guys put together for me. It's a great old saw, runs like a top, I enjoy using it, and I'm glad to have it...but it sure points out how far saw technology has come since that Mac was new.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Yup, I put a little fancy cut on that side before I started 'cause I didn't have quite enough bar to go clear through and I didn't want to be doing the Swedish Stump Dance. There was several years of pine needles and duff for footing and it was like trying to walk on ball bearings, even with calks. Like I said, that one was ugly but my wife says the good ones are boring. LOL...she knows.
> That saw is slow compared to more modern equipment. It's a PM850 that Eccentric and some other guys put together for me. It's a great old saw, runs like a top, I enjoy using it, and I'm glad to have it...but it sure points out how far saw technology has come since that Mac was new.



WHAT!! You mean you didn't have a pickup bed and trailer full of saws? Not the 50 saw plan? Blasphemy! 

The nervousness as a tree goes down is why I have a zoom lens. Partial cuts are very hard to get pictures and videos in. The trees won't move out of the way.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i am in a stand of old poplar.......way harder than what i was cutting, every thing seems slow lol. but, can't fall a 48" stick like a 30" no way......im bout used to it now.
that was good of them boys to do that, dam good people around.


----------



## Joe46

I'm thinkin it's probably a good thing you didn't get paid the day rate when that saw was new Bob!


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> WHAT!! You mean you didn't have a pickup bed and trailer full of saws? Not the 50 saw plan? Blasphemy!



Yup, struggled along with just one saw. The TreeSlingr 660 is long gone and I sold my 461 to Atpchas. The self loader guy carries a 660 that I could borrow if I needed it but the old Mac did just fine.
I'm still on the fence about getting a 661. I really think that today was the last of it for me and a 661, while nice to have, probably wouldn't get much use.
LOL...I'll run Cedarkerf's 661 at Farley's this year. Maybe that will get the bug out of my system for buying one.


----------



## Gologit

Joe46 said:


> I'm thinkin it's probably a good thing you didn't get paid the day rate when that saw was new Bob!





SSSSSHHHHHH! Don't give those tightwads any ideas.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> that was good of them boys to do that, dam good people around.



Yup. A lot of guys contributed parts and pieces and Eccentric put them all together. I didn't know anything about it. Last year at the Napa GTG he just walked up and handed it to me...said "here, this is yours now". Good people.


----------



## northmanlogging

I would have left one just one donnetto and brought my own coffee, you's kallifornians have trouble making good coffee...


----------



## northmanlogging

Nice work though 3 loads in one day, I take it there where multiple cutters? The big timber helps though.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> I would have left one just one donnetto and brought my own coffee, you's kallifornians have trouble making good coffee...



Folgers Instant and hot tapwater wouldn't do it?


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Nice work though 3 loads in one day, I take it there where multiple cutters? The big timber helps though.



I was the only faller. The guy on the self loader helped with a little bucking and limbing when he had time.
And you're right, the big stuff is easier to get volume.


----------



## northmanlogging

Gologit said:


> Folgers Instant and hot tapwater wouldn't do it?



Maybe in a pinch... like if'n I was homeless...


----------



## madhatte

A bit of stump pull in the right place never hurt anybody. That's a fine sounding saw and a clean fall.


----------



## SliverPicker

"Gated Community" jobs are probably ok. It's the residents that turn my stomach. 

You're lucky you weren't required to have electric saws and a hybrid skidder under 2000 pounds. If they had eyeballed your corks you'd be banned until you bought some proper "earth slippers".


----------



## Gologit

SliverPicker said:


> "Gated Community" jobs are probably ok. It's the residents that turn my stomach.
> 
> You're lucky you weren't required to have electric saws and a hybrid skidder under 2000 pounds. If they had eyeballed your corks you'd be banned until you bought some proper "earth slippers".



This particular property owner is actually pretty good. I've worked for him before and he's very down to earth and decent. He started out as a kid sanding fenders in a body shop and wound up with a string of body shops of his own. He understands work. 
He and some of the other property owners have taken advantage of a loophole in the CC&Rs to have a little logging done. The other property owners, the ones who hate logging, are where all the curfew, ground remediation, and equipment restrictions come from.
The Forester is the guy I feel sorry for...he has to listen to all the complaints...and they're constant... and he has to make sure the loggers stay in compliance. 
My part was easy but I'm always glad when those kind of jobs are done.

LOL...If you don't mind I won't pass along your suggestions for equipment and footwear. It's California...somebody might take your ideas seriously.


----------



## rwoods

A quiet skidder required - and you show up with a noisy old MAC! At least it doesn't . It is good to see an old saw working as intended.

Bringing one saw versus 50 is the difference between considering a saw a tool instead of a toy. Or a job instead of a recreational outing.

Ron


----------



## slowp

I hope it wasn't a Clark skidder.


----------



## paccity

bob, that saw was cutting good, just sounds slow with the low revs on them compared to a modern stihl or husky. the last tree i took pulled a good chunk also. had to swing it with out a lot of holding wood . and your tree smelled better. hope you guys enjoy your new diggs once your settled in.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Gologit said:


> You'll have to talk to the photographer. She comes from a logging family and she's seen trees go sideways a time or two. The farther I get sawed up the more nervous she gets.


Jani uses that video technique as well


----------



## treeslayer2003

slowp said:


> I hope it wasn't a Clark skidder.


why? the newer ones have a cummins, not loud.


----------



## slowp

I have never been around a new one. Only LOUD ones. 

I just talked to a neighbor--semi retired logger, and he is going to log some trees in my vicinity. Should I demand he wait till 10AM to start work?   If I recall correctly, his equipment is pretty quiet, except for the yarders which he no longer has.


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, mines loud......old detroit. i have ear muffs


----------



## paccity

this one has a cummins. and it is not quiet at all.


----------



## treeslayer2003

its a v6, not a BT
i like to have it
also the exhaust does not appear factory


----------



## paccity

378 v6. the can is stock and goes up to the factory armored rain cap. does have a stainless steel clamp under the can. have seen the exhaust routed in many diff ways on these. not detriot loud but loud enough.


----------



## treeslayer2003

every one i been around had a spark arrestor or some such on the roof......of course they were all detroit


----------



## rwoods

I don't know the brand ( I want to say a Franklin) but it was red (or maybe orange) and apparently really loud. Anyway, the last time my father logged on our mountain farm, a neighbor complained about the noise. The logger thought he would have a little fun and made as much noise as he could. Things escalated to the point where the neighbor threaten to shoot the logger if he continued to run the skidder without a muffler. Our neighbor was no yuppy or Florida transplant. He was a native of the mountains and meant business. Matters got sorted out and the job finished without bloodshed but I was told things were very tense for a good while. Ron


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> A quiet skidder required - and you show up with a noisy old MAC! At least it doesn't . It is good to see an old saw working as intended.
> 
> Bringing one saw versus 50 is the difference between considering a saw a tool instead of a toy. Or a job instead of a recreational outing.
> 
> Ron



That Mac wasn't really much noiser than the triple ported 660. Different tone to it, lower and not as shrill. But hey, a saw is supposed to _sound_ like a saw, not an oven timer going off.
The skidder was a little John Deere about one size up from a riding lawnmower.
It was quiet, very quiet. The guy that owns it does a lot of urban-interface jobs and he's good at it. It was also the first skidder I've seen in a long time that wasn't leaking something. That thing was very clean.


----------



## BeatCJ

slowp said:


> I just talked to a neighbor--semi retired logger, and he is going to log some trees in my vicinity. Should I demand he wait till 10AM to start work?


Sure, try that let us know how it goes for you.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I just talked to a neighbor--semi retired logger, and he is going to log some trees in my vicinity. Should I demand he wait till 10AM to start work?



Sure, give it a try. Or lighten up on him and let him start at eight. Be sure to tell him not to leak any fluids on the ground...or let his machinery leak any either.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Sure, give it a try. Or lighten up on him and let him start at eight. Be sure to tell him not to leak any fluids on the ground...or let his machinery leak any either.



Right now it is so wet that the only way to find a leak would have to be with a leak detecting dog. I'll start training TUD today.


----------



## SliverPicker

Gologit said:


> This particular property owner is actually pretty good. I've worked for him before and he's very down to earth and decent. He started out as a kid sanding fenders in a body shop and wound up with a string of body shops of his own. He understands work.
> He and some of the other property owners have taken advantage of a loophole in the CC&Rs to have a little logging done. The other property owners, the ones who hate logging, are where all the curfew, ground remediation, and equipment restrictions come from.
> The Forester is the guy I feel sorry for...he has to listen to all the complaints...and they're constant... and he has to make sure the loggers stay in compliance.
> My part was easy but I'm always glad when those kind of jobs are done.
> 
> LOL...If you don't mind I won't pass along your suggestions for equipment and footwear. It's California...somebody might take your ideas seriously.



I'm glad you found a good guy to work for. Most of them seem pretty decent at first, but their true colors come out eventually. My favorite is when they look you in the eye after the work is done and tell you that they aren't going to pay you. I've got $11,000 in the wind that I will never see due to three of these prima donnas. The money I'm owed isn't from logging, but the principle is the same.

Are you done? How'd the job turn out?


----------



## Gologit

Sliverpicker....My part is done. The stump removal and ground remediation will be done by somebody else. I had the easy part. I helped the Forester set things up, got the trucks in, and did the falling. I don't think the property owner made much but his main goal was to open up some space and make things look better. He has an almost ongoing thinning project and the place looks great.


I had a check in my pocket when I drove out the gate. The guy that owns the property does business that way. Like I said, he's a pleasure to work for.
The logs went to a little independent mill that cuts specialty items. I kinda like that. The only big mill within hauling distance didn't want to pay anything and would probably have murdered us on scale even though the logs were good. They're still jammed with pine from last year's fires.


----------



## northmanlogging

Some of you folks might remember me yacking about a job a few months ago dude didn't want a permit, big timber etc.

Well got word today that DNR F+W and a few other alphabet soup types showed up and shut em down...

Haven't heard what the final outcome was, but don't sound very pretty...

I'm suddenly very glad I passed on it even though I haven't cut a tree in 6 weeks until today. Today was a good day...


----------



## treeslayer2003

yes sir Northy, i got word from a county forester not long ago about a tract i passed on. he said i should be glad i did. always trust your gut.


----------



## Gologit

Yup. Too many red flags...leave it alone.


----------



## paccity




----------



## SliverPicker

Good on ya logit. I'm glad it worked out well. A+


----------



## rwoods

Shoulder surgery was yesterday afternoon so I am PUI (posting under influence) - a common occurrence apparently on the AS forums.

Surgery took 2 1/2 hours. My two responsible adults didn't ask many questions or take notes so I don't know what was found or done beyond one or two RC repairs plus the discovery and repair of a torn bicep. Something was said about a temporary peg. The good news is they found less arthritis than they were expecting. If all goes well I should be WOT in time for next season.

Ron


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Shoulder surgery was yesterday afternoon so I am PUI (posting under influence) - a common occurrence apparently on the AS forums.
> 
> Surgery took 2 1/2 hours. My two responsible adults didn't ask many questions or take notes so I don't know what was found or done beyond one or two RC repairs plus the discovery and repair of a torn bicep. Something was said about a temporary peg. The good news is they found less arthritis than they were expecting. If all goes well I should be WOT in time for next season.
> 
> 
> Ron





That's good news Ron. Take your time healing and heal well. And leave those damn saws alone for awhile.


----------



## rwoods

Yes. I need a new exercise plan. From an economic viewpoint I could have bought several families a HVAC system for what I have spent on healthcare providing a few sticks of firewood. 

No real regrets though. Most of my injuries could have happened pushing a truck out of the mud or moving furniture neither of which are near as much fun nor would have resulted in meeting so many fine folks locally or on the Internet.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

paccity said:


> View attachment 402865



I kinda want one...


----------



## treeslayer2003

Ron, recover well my friend.


----------



## rwoods

So far so good. No pain meds in last 6 hours and only a half pill then. Ron


----------



## slowp

rwoods said:


> So far so good. No pain meds in last 6 hours and only a half pill then. Ron



I hope you are not a banjo player. Here's to speedy healing!


----------



## rwoods

Nope. No musical talent whatsoever. I can barely play the radio. Thanks for the well wishes. Ron


----------



## SliverPicker

4 weeks ago I received a text message on my new-fangled flip phone. "I have a skidder op. job. $19 per hour plus $1.50 per ton for anything over 75 tons per day. 5 days 7am to 4pm. Interested?" Since I had given up logging my own patch due to various factors that I couldn't control I said "Yes". I show up on day one. Tuesday. I am informed that we are burning brush. Sounds good to me. As long as I am out doors and still have a pulse I'm pretty much happy. So, we burn brush at 9950 feet for 4 days. Week two day two. Now we are processing pulp piles left on some BLM land by 4 other outfits. No problem. I sit in the loader all day. I "pencil" the sticks (tops mostly) up and make a neat deck. My coworker comes along with a saw and cuts 20's and 25's. We work up around 6 loads and call it a day. The hayrack shows up first thing the next day and hauls a load to the pellet plant only he doesn't make it to his destination. He twists the driveshaft off of his truck and calls his wife for a ride. Parts are ordered and we continue to work up loads. 2pm on day two of pulp duty we get a call that the pellet plant yard is stuffed up. We are cut off indefinitely. No problem. There's 5-6 miles of skid roads with pulp piles. I jump in the D4 the next day and proceed to plow snow. Hour after hour. Tank of fuel after tank of fuel. There are drifts up to 7 feet deep. I am wishing for a D11 with a v-plow! My coworker shows up (no cell service) to tell me there has been another change of plans. One of the main haul roads, the one that doesn't have the disabled hayrack acting as a paperweight. Needs to be widened. No problem. I head cross country with the D4 to plow the road. I notice a perfect set of bobcat-hunting-hare tracks on the way so the trip was worthwhile. I plow the east side of the road on the way down the hill. In Colorado you are usually headed straight up or straight down at any given moment. I make my turn to widen the west side of the road on the way back to the crummy and not 200 yard into the job the dozer starts to lose power. Crap! This is a northwest facing stretch and is gray ice 6"thick. Since the only other way in that doesn't require a Huey is blocked by a crippled Freightliner I know that I have to get this piece of scrap metal off of the road and now. I turn perpendicular to the hill using the last of the dying Cat's power and proceed to begin sliding sideways (big surprise). In some manner that I don't remember I managed to get the yellow pig off of the road and between a few trees. Perfect spot to park. I walk the 2 miles to the top of the hill in the sweltering 52 degree temps. This is Friday. I text the mill, that I am working for, on Sunday morning first thing " Are we working Monday or Tuesday?" "No" comes the reply later that afternoon. Apparently the mill owner, for whom I am now working, has not left his previous clients in a good mood. This is all fine and dandy except the 1270(d)(lol!) acres we are supposed to be cutting can only be accessed through these folks' property! So it has been 6 days since anyone has any idea what is going on. 6 days since I have "been on the clock". Six days since anyone has said anything to me that wasn't a lie. The biggest problem here folks is that I had a 40-hour-per-week job in town that was going to last until break up. I quite that full time job for...NOTHING. Now I have no income at all. I have been out in the wind for the past 4 days trying to finish up a load for the stud mill in ******* deep snow. 

My question is; what sort of names are appropriate for the particular mill owner that courted me in to taking this non-existent gig? Fug.

Signed,

Down and Out on the Western Slope

"Descriptive" enough? This reply is certainly over processed.


----------



## hammerlogging

SliverPicker said:


> My question is; what sort of names are appropriate for the particular mill owner that courted me in to taking this non-existent gig? Fug.
> 
> .



How about "typical"


----------



## madhatte

That is a rotten mess. Best of luck getting it sorted out.


----------



## Metals406

That's a bunch of crap. Mill owner is making a name for himself, a bad name.


----------



## treeslayer2003

he won't be around long doing b'ness that way.
sorry silver, good luck to ya bro.


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> That's a bunch of crap. Mill owner is making a name for himself, a bad name.



Sadly, sometimes they're the only game in town or one of a few. Saw a similar thing happen to loggers when the 2009 crash hit. They'd been "promised" year round work and one had quit a good, steady job to return. The mill is still going. The loggers went out of business and scattered.


----------



## SliverPicker

There's three of us in the same boat. We are all looking for other jobs. Lies and more lies.


----------



## 2dogs

Bummer. I've sat by the phone a few times myself wondering if I screwed up. The answer has been "No" the owner just didn't feel like taking time to call me.


----------



## SliverPicker

This is land owner issue. He ticked off some previous clients and they are debating whether they are going to let him trough their land to access this next job. They own the only access point. 

The previous logger that the mill hired left a bad mess. There where also some security cameras on a gate that where tampered with. The owners suspect that there are loads that they didn't get paid for. The owners have more money than Rockefeller.


----------



## Gologit

SliverPicker said:


> This is land owner issue. He ticked off some previous clients and they are debating whether they are going to let him trough their land to access this next job. They own the only access point.
> 
> The previous logger that the mill hired left a bad mess. There where also some security cameras on a gate that where tampered with. The owners suspect that there are loads that they didn't get paid for. The owners have more money than Rockefeller.




Sounds like a damn mess. Are you married to Colorado or could you work some place else?


----------



## SliverPicker

I wouldn't mind going home to the U.P. one bit. The problem here in Colorado is that I have a house that I can't sell. Its too far underwater. If I walk away the bank can and will take everything else that I own in addition to the house (Colorado law).


----------



## northmanlogging

In large cursive letters written across the lower bit of a honda ? windshield NO RAGRETS (sic) seen at a gas station in my wonderful little town...


----------



## Gologit

SliverPicker said:


> I wouldn't mind going home to the U.P. one bit. The problem here in Colorado is that I have a house that I can't sell. Its too far underwater. If I walk away the bank can and will take everything else that I own in addition to the house (Colorado law).



Ouch.


----------



## paccity

here local. lol. not far from owls place.


----------



## treeslayer2003

that took some thought


----------



## madhatte

There have been at least two instances of trees planted in the shape of a swastika, one of which was done in larch, which can only be seen during the fall, and from the air. People are weird.


----------



## slowp

I tried to post a google earth picture of the dice units that are just east of here, but the technology is beyond my capabilities.


----------



## SliverPicker

northmanlogging said:


> In large cursive letters written across the lower bit of a honda ? windshield NO RAGRETS (sic) seen at a gas station in my wonderful little town...



At least it didn't say "NO RAGRET'S"


----------



## hammerlogging

northmanlogging said:


> In large cursive letters written across the lower bit of a honda ? windshield NO RAGRETS (sic) seen at a gas station in my wonderful little town...


Heard a song on the local radio station "Mama's got a tramp stamp"
not judging, just funny


----------



## Cedarkerf

A stump down the street for your viewing pleasure. Thought of putting it in advanced falling cuts but settled for this thread


----------



## Joe46

The old saying "it's better to be lucky than good sometimes" comes to mind. They missed the fence!


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> I tried to post a google earth picture of the dice units that are just east of here, but the technology is beyond my capabilities.



Are these the ones? They're just a couple miles to your east. 







EDIT: on closer look, those are just landings prepared before a sale. These are more likely the "dice units":


----------



## slowp

No, the dice units are PERFECT round dots, either of leave trees or clearcuts north and maybe west a hair from Mt Adams. They were an adaptive management project on retention and non-retention. The district office gets a lot of phone calls about them. I doubt any research is continuing due to the changing of people and budgets.

Your photo looks like the Cowlitz Valley. I'm thinking those might be helicopter units that my neighbor cut on. He said they boated across the river and hiked in to some ot the units. I'm thinking the logs were flown down to a pasture on the highway side.


----------



## slowp

HAH! I simply googled "dice clearcuts Gifford Pinchot National Forest" and got this.
http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/sep/22/dice-clearcut-in-gifford-pinchot-help-make-science/


----------



## madhatte

AHA! I do remember something about those. Was it part of the Long-Term Ecosystem Study? We have part of that study on out land, but you'd have to know it was there to see it. There's nothing so dramatic here. 

Also: five bucks says that "User 'treeswarper'" is you.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> AHA! I do remember something about those. Was it part of the Long-Term Ecosystem Study? We have part of that study on out land, but you'd have to know it was there to see it. There's nothing so dramatic here.
> 
> Also: five bucks says that "User 'treeswarper'" is you.



Sounds like it is since it is supposed to go on for 100 years or maybe 80 by now.


----------



## slowp

Oh maaan, I was just using Google Earth and looking at some of the more recent units and the road r/w that I marked out whilst using a ski pole as a cane, and taking pain pills really shows up. I am hoping huckleberries will grow on it?


----------



## Gypo Logger

Slowp, I'm going south to Washington state and was wondering if it's ok if I drop in and visit you? I promise I won't be the Thing that Wouldn't Leave.
John


----------



## slowp

Nope.


----------



## Joe46

Just dropped in on the chainsaw forum. Ya'all want to get in on how to pronounce picco?


----------



## Gologit

Joe46 said:


> Just dropped in on the chainsaw forum. Ya'all want to get in on how to pronounce picco?




Uh, no. But thanks anyway.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i just read a few pages in the off topic i wish i never saw...........jeez


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> i just read a few pages in the off topic i wish i never saw...........jeez


 Off Topic isn't too bad. It's kinda juvenile sometimes and there's a lot of "me, me, look at me" posts but it's usually harmless. Annoying, and a stone waste of intellect, but harmless.
If you want to see a true cross section of American attitudes... conspiracy nuts, social panic, self induced paranoia, facism, racism , misogynistic fear driven ideas, and other assorted nut-job displays of aberrant behavior... check out the Political and Religion forum.
Careful though. Some people go in there and never come out again. At least not in any recognizable form.


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, nah i better leave that alone. almost any thing can be construed as negative........best to not lol. wtf pics will be it for me there.


----------



## northmanlogging

Put some new tires on the crummy yesterday.

Today on the way home I got to lock them up and put a flat spot in em... Almost rolled it... Made a real nice smoke show.

Sunshine makes some for some really stupid drivers around here, once your in the turn lane and stopping you can't just hop back into the regular traffic like nothing happened...


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> ...once your in the turn lane and stopping you can't just hop back into the regular traffic like nothing happened...



You can in California...especially if they're texting while driving. It must be okay, I see it a lot.
I think people who text while they drive should have their thumbs surgically grafted to the palm of their hands.


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> Put some new tires on the crummy yesterday.
> 
> Today on the way home I got to lock them up and put a flat spot in em... Almost rolled it... Made a real nice smoke show.
> 
> Sunshine makes some for some really stupid drivers around here, once your in the turn lane and stopping you can't just hop back into the regular traffic like nothing happened...


So their insurance is buying you new tires?


----------



## northmanlogging

I missed em I think... hard ta tell with a crummy...

Managed to squeeze through on the shoulder between their rear quarter panel, and the dodge waiting to turn left... sideways... they still got in front of me.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> You can in California...especially if they're texting while driving. It must be okay, I see it a lot.
> I think people who text while they drive should have their thumbs surgically grafted to the palm of their hands.


i just had to like this again lol..........better yet just cut they thumbs off


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> i just had to like this again lol..........better yet just cut they thumbs off


 Wellllll, that might be just a bit severe. How 'bout putting super glue on each thumb and inserting them in their ears instead? No driving, no texting, they'd be easy to spot in a crowd, and people would remember them.


----------



## SliverPicker

Awesome!


----------



## madhatte

I love it when that happens when I have 300 gal of water on the back. Brakes ain't miracles, ya know!


----------



## 2dogs

Rough day. This morning Cody and I were working on a small concrete dam. OK he was working and I was talking but I had important stuff to say. Anyway he cut of a 6' piece of bent 4" angle iron to replace it with a straight piece. I hauled it up and over the dam and promptly dropped it on my right foot. Of course I was wearing Romeos since I was going to switch to caulks later in the day.

Then after lunch Cody was cutting down a half dozen small tanoaks while I was talking to him. Something bit me on the neck and left a hell of a welt. It felt like a vampire bit me. Not one of those shiny Warshington vampires but a REAL. Now I can only turn my neck half way and my foot has a big black bruise that goes all the way through my foot to the sole.

Does anyone feel sorry for me? Cody doesn't. My ex doesn't. At least my dog licked my foot.


----------



## treeslayer2003

dang Bill.............was it a hornet?

spider? don't ignore that if it starts to turn black..........i got it once, hard headed didn't help.


----------



## rwoods

I've been stung by many flying beasts, but the first time a hornet got me on the shoulder blade it felt like someone had hit me with a ball pein hammer. Ron


----------



## 2dogs

I yelled and grabbed the thing biting me but I never saw it. I have been stung by hornets before and even though I didn't see the little beastie it did not feel like any sort of bee. What ever it was, it was very small. Still hurts today... big time.


----------



## Metals406

2dogs said:


> I yelled and grabbed the thing biting me but I never saw it. I have been stung by hornets before and even though I didn't see the little beastie it did not feel like any sort of bee. What ever it was, it was very small. Still hurts today... big time.


Scorpion?


----------



## Gologit

Centipede? Earwig maybe?


----------



## HuskStihl




----------



## 2dogs

Thanks Doc. That was it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

damn shoulder woke me up........


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> damn shoulder woke me up........


"Dislike"
It's my hips that get me.


----------



## bitzer

You guys are old.....


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> You guys are old.....


Repped for troof


----------



## Gologit

Pfffffft! I got wedges older than you guys. Get up and get out there!


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> You guys are old.....


you'll see lol

on my way Bob


----------



## rwoods

Gologit said:


> Pfffffft! I got wedges older than you guys. Get up and get out there!



Good advice. Yesterday, I talked with a gentleman who will turn 90 this year. He kept telling me how young I am being 30 years behind him. As I have heard many times from others, he attributes his longevity to getting out there. He raises vegetables for sale; already has his cabbage sprouting in the greenhouse so he can transplant them when the time is right. Ron


----------



## SliverPicker

My grandpa was still splitting firewood with a maul when he was 94. He always stayed busy outside with a full 1/4 acre garden and firewood mostly. He was a skidder operator (teamster) for a large timber outfit during the mid 20s until the Depression. During the depression he supported the family by chasing down coyotes for the $5 bounty behind some beagles. He did this on snowshoes. Some days he covered well over 30 miles. All the physical activity sure seemed to work for him.


----------



## HuskStihl

SliverPicker said:


> My grandpa was still splitting firewood with a maul when he was 94. He always stayed busy outside with a full 1/4 acre garden and firewood mostly. He was a skidder operator (teamster) for a large timber outfit during the mid 20s until the Depression. During the depression he supported the family by chasing down coyotes for the $5 bounty behind some beagles. He did this on snowshoes. Some days he covered well over 30 miles. All the physical activity sure seemed to work for him.


You should ask Bob if your grandpa ever apprenticed under him


----------



## SliverPicker

Hilarious!


----------



## Metals406

Randy Mac broke'em both in. ;0)


----------



## 2dogs

treeslayer2003 said:


> damn shoulder woke me up........


Yep damn near every night.


----------



## rwoods

Mike and 2dogs, FWIW, I am a side sleeper and with two bad shoulders. The pain got worse at night and I could barely sleep until I discovered this past January that by stacking two pillows under my head instead of just one the night pains slowly decreased to the point where I had no trouble sleeping. Maybe this will work for you.

Thanks to recent rotator cuff and slapp surgery, I have been sleeping in a chair for the last 5 weeks. I am now out of the sling so I am going to try the bed tonight. 

Ron


----------



## BeatCJ

I was in the same place, I got lucky and the tear was so small it didn't need surgery. They could see the cyst from the leak, but not the tear itself.

I was using a big foam block to support my left arm, and lying on my right side. It was a good night when it woke me up, that meant I had actually gotten some sleep. People at work noticed immediately when I finally got into the orthopod and got cortisone, first good night of sleep I had in three months. I became less grumpy overnight!


----------



## treeslayer2003

2dogs said:


> Yep damn near every night.


i took a handful of advil the last two nights so it wouldn't wake me..........hopefully this bout will be over soon.


----------



## northmanlogging

Whiskey... doctors are expensive.

I did finally go to the doctor on Tues, wonky knee, headaches, wonka vision (sort of constant)... Didn't even bother mentioning the shoulder issues...

Though for the shoulder I too have found that 2 pillows or hugging one seems to help... still can't ****ing sleep though.


----------



## 4x4American

nyquil my friend


----------



## BeatCJ

diphenhydramine is cheaper, with less side effects. Probably the most commonly used antihistamine and OTC sleep aid. It's the generic name for Benedryl and Sominex. I only take one, if I take two, I often get restless leg or feel wired. The paradoxical effect is a common side effect.


----------



## 4x4American

"Nyquil on the rocks, for when you're feeling sick yet sociable" -Mitch Hedberg


----------



## SliverPicker

I just accidentally posted in the Wood Turning forum. Too much coffee.


----------



## SliverPicker

Maybe I should head to the "Chainsaw" section next? Nawww....


----------



## Metals406

SliverPicker said:


> Maybe I should head to the "Chainsaw" section next? Nawww....


Yeah, avoid things that'll make you dumber. [emoji14]


----------



## SliverPicker

No kidding. There's not much more room in that direction anyway.


----------



## treeslayer2003

SliverPicker said:


> I just accidentally posted in the Wood Turning forum. Too much coffee.


no such thing lol


----------



## SliverPicker

You are quite right!

I told you there wasn't much more room in the direction of stoopid for me.


----------



## slowp

A visit to the vet yesterday made my newly acquired exercise dog reach the level of a cheap, motorized treadmill. But no treadmill is going to whine until you take them out on an adventure, nor make you walk an extra mile because it is there you can ambush and recapture it.


----------



## Brush Ape Everlasting

Please tell me, what is descriptive processes? I am just an ape and am still building my vocabulary.


----------



## SliverPicker

Read the first post in the thread.


----------



## northmanlogging

Brush Ape Everlasting said:


> Please tell me, what is descriptive processes? I am just an ape and am still building my vocabulary.


Ya see billions and billions of posts ago... there was a thread called the Whining Thread... And it was fun and all, and for some of us that may have been dislexic (?) We may have thought it was the WiNNing thread...

Someone notably Mrs. P decided that loggers don't whine, we "describe"... the rest is history... Some day maybe billions and billions of posts from now our great grand bastards will form a religion around the fine art of "describing"...


----------



## treeslayer2003

YOU HAVE GOT TO FREAKING KIDDING


----------



## Sheriff Brush Ape

You let me know if that BA gives you any trouble.


----------



## lfnh

Nah, he and all his herd are still trying to figure out how to get that 48" cull on the ground with that big 16" cookie cutter bar.


----------



## bitzer

You need to find yourself a girl (or boy) ape. Quit spankin that damn monkey. Hes sore and tired.


----------



## Joe46

Some people just need a fallin axe through their hard drive.


----------



## 2dogs

northmanlogging said:


> Whiskey... doctors are expensive.
> 
> I did finally go to the doctor on Tues, wonky knee, headaches, wonka vision (sort of constant)... Didn't even bother mentioning the shoulder issues...
> 
> Though for the shoulder I too have found that 2 pillows or hugging one seems to help... still can't ****ing sleep though.


Yeah I'm a hugger too.


----------



## 2dogs

Cody was running equipment yesterday with his own key. He took it with him of course. Cody headed off today to no-cell-service-land and was gone when the foreman called and said he had no key. I had to drive 2 1/2 hours round trip to bring him a dang key. Who doesn't have a ring of equipment keys a half a dozen Cat keys? I probably have 25 equipment keys in my truck.


----------



## northmanlogging

Noted...


----------



## northmanlogging

2dogs said:


> Cody was running equipment yesterday with his own key. He took it with him of course. Cody headed off today to no-cell-service-land and was gone when the foreman called and said he had no key. I had to drive 2 1/2 hours round trip to bring him a dang key. Who doesn't have a ring of equipment keys a half a dozen Cat keys? I probably have 25 equipment keys in my truck.



Keys? who needs keys? saw wrench and a hammer...


----------



## 2dogs

northmanlogging said:


> Keys? who needs keys? saw wrench and a hammer...


Borrowed equipment.


----------



## slowp

I have a cat key.  Now, how does it work?


----------



## northmanlogging

2dogs said:


> Borrowed equipment.


Oh... Well I guess if you want to keep borrowing it...

I think my backhoe has a key? otherwise... There's a round thing you have to turn to make the starter work?


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I have a cat key.  Now, how does it work?



That Cat key works only on very old Cats. It also starts old 966s, graders, skidders, and shovels. Be sure to take video.


----------



## 2dogs

While Cody was trenching for the new septic system infiltrators I was burning a brush pile. Most of the wood was tanoak so (I thought ahead) and brought in a Rocky the Range chicken from Safeway. No use in letting a good fire go to waste. Than chicken was done by lunch time, I pulled off a leg/thigh and put it in my cook pot along with some (good quality) ramen. It was nice to have a hot lunch. I could leave the fire so the rest of the crew came up to where I was. Surprise was the order of the day.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> That Cat key works only on very old Cats. It also starts old 966s, graders, skidders, and shovels. Be sure to take video.



Graders? I would like that. There are a lot of needy roads out there.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Graders? I would like that. There are a lot of needy roads out there.


 Just be sure to put it back where you got it. Leave a bag of cookies on the seat. Fuel it.
Oh, if you're going to run a blade on logging roads you'll have to develop the "blade operator's scowl". That's the look that tells the guys that are running over your berm or not taking the time to split their tracks that they're screwing up your program.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Just be sure to put it back where you got it. Leave a bag of cookies on the seat. Fuel it.
> Oh, if you're going to run a blade on logging roads you'll have to develop the "blade operator's scowl". That's the look that tells the guys that are running over your berm or not taking the time to split their tracks that they're screwing up your program.



That's the same scowl as the low boy driver scowl. Maybe they are the same.

There was a grader broken down and the operator that day was the side rod. He was there so long that the log trucks were using him for a marker. He had a nice nap too.
I think he deserved it.

Graders seem to be prone to breakdowns.


----------



## coltont

They say being a good grader operator back in the day was a real task. Now it's all gps guided jobbys.


----------



## Gologit

coltont said:


> Now it's all gps guided jobbys.


 Really? All? LOL...not in my neighborhood.


----------



## coltont

Haha not in the machines the small companies have I suppose.


----------



## Gologit

coltont said:


> Haha not in the machines the small companies have I suppose.



Not in a lot of the big logging companies either. We might be talking about two different things. Where I work a lot of people call graders _blades._ I've seen laser guided blades working flat ground on construction projects but I've never seen one working on logging roads. Not in my part of the woods anyway. Maybe the FS uses them but on the private ground I'm familiar with we don't see any advantage to it.
Running a blade on a logging road is usually more like finish work, spreading material, or smoothing out the bumps. A good operator usually just eyeballs the work and adjusts accordingly.
If a new road is being pioneered...a very rare thing these days...the lead Cat cuts to grade by using the surveyor's stakes. The blade comes in beind him and neatens things up so that the trucks can get in and out. Same with spurs and turnarounds.
Maybe back east they use GPS or lasers on logging roads?


----------



## coltont

I don't think they would be used unless you were cutting for the state and the road was a permanent fixture after the logging was done. Most of the independent guys around here have ole faithful Deere or Gallion graders. Here's my preferred grader.


----------



## slowp

Ahh, and around here roads are often pioneered in with excavators, hoes, or whatever you call them. We environmentally sensitive people like to see that instead of a cat. Material gets punched in and compacted (at least when we are around) and not shoved over the edge. I don't think a grader ever comes near those roads. 

In the days of lots of money, (when them loggers was RICH) a road was bladed in 5 passes. That doesn't happen now. I do know that the habit of doing a road in short segments just in case the grader breaks down is still a common practice. And no, they are not operated by a GPS unit. How could a GPS unit do The Scowl? Or pull the poor forester out of the snowy ditch?


----------



## slowp

It is said that this guy could pick your nose with that machine. He was doing "sensitive road construction". Any extra material was to be end hauled to a waste area so he was careful to not make any extra waste.


----------



## Gologit

The difference between government ground and private ground road building...budgets.


----------



## 1270d

I have never witnessed a GPS or laser device on a grader in the woods. Or a dozer. For shaping up roads quick like one of the road crews we work around uses an old county snowplow truck with an underbody scraper. It works very well.


----------



## Gologit

That's all it takes sometimes. Just a little shaping so it will drain and stay drained. That, and trying to get the truck drivers to split their tracks until things dry out.


----------



## madhatte

Truck drivers? Cooperative as can be, compared to soldiers. You should see some of the messes they leave us.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Truck drivers? Cooperative as can be, compared to soldiers. You should see some of the messes they leave us.



Good point. I'd probably think twice before I started to yell at a couple of hundred guys with heavy weaponry.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Good point. I'd probably think twice before I started to yell at a couple of hundred guys with heavy weaponry.



I would call it "training".


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I would call it "training".


 
Maybe. But who is training who? And what are the consequences if the training doesn't go well?


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Maybe. But who is training who? And what are the consequences if the training doesn't go well?



We shall hope that life insurance is paid up for the forester. I can already see the drone coming in to "remedy the breach".


----------



## Gologit

Should we take up a collection and buy Nathan a flak jacket?


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Should we take up a collection and buy Nathan a flak jacket?



Isn't the up to date terminology Kevlar Body Armor?


----------



## Joe46

Talking to a Plum Creek guy several years ago he said they would crown their roads in the fall so the snow/rain would drain off easier. This was in the Little Naches area of Eastern Wa.


----------



## madhatte

I've wondered about body armor before. We do sometimes have artillery explode on fires; a few guys got knocked down by a dud the year before I hired on, and I don't know how many times I've been in a wasp's nest of belted ammo going off. Fortunately, the brass is the part that flies away, and it doesn't hit hard. I also had a shell or something go off a few hundred yards behind me as I retreated in the truck after fire rolled across a holding line. I could feel the concussion through the floor of the truck. Still, I've never seen anybody get hurt working fire here, other than the usual sprains and strains and an occasional minor burn. I guess we're lucky, maybe?


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Isn't the up to date terminology Kevlar Body Armor?


 Probably. Flak jacket...I'm showing my age aren't I?


----------



## Steve NW WI

Gologit said:


> Not in a lot of the big logging companies either. We might be talking about two different things. Where I work a lot of people call graders _blades._ I've seen laser guided blades working flat ground on construction projects but I've never seen one working on logging roads. Not in my part of the woods anyway. Maybe the FS uses them but on the private ground I'm familiar with we don't see any advantage to it.
> Running a blade on a logging road is usually more like finish work, spreading material, or smoothing out the bumps. A good operator usually just eyeballs the work and adjusts accordingly.
> If a new road is being pioneered...a very rare thing these days...the lead Cat cuts to grade by using the surveyor's stakes. The blade comes in beind him and neatens things up so that the trucks can get in and out. Same with spurs and turnarounds.
> Maybe back east they use GPS or lasers on logging roads?


Grew up riding with Dad running the township Austin Western every chance I could. Those banks of levers on each side of the wheel were amazing to an 8 year old, still are 35 years later. I have enough work running 3 levers on farm machinery when I get to play in the dirt. I know they weren't all used all the time, but they were all used. There are very few good blade guys left here now, most of the dirt roads have been paved over.


slowp said:


> It is said that this guy could pick your nose with that machine. He was doing "sensitive road construction". Any extra material was to be end hauled to a waste area so he was careful to not make any extra waste.
> 
> View attachment 415249


You can look on youtube, shouldn't be hard to find vids of those guys flipping a quarter into the bucket with a tooth. Guys have skills...and others are total hacks. One ex mfg (forget which one) has a vid of their machine climbing a tower. Neat stuff. I'd find links, but I'm on my phone.


----------



## slowp

This is how it USED to be done here. A pass up the ditchline on each side of the road. A serious cutting up and down on the road surface--to do this you have to have some moisture in the road, but not too much. Then a final pass down the center, crowning the road out. I think I'm remembering it right or maybe the road surface was cut down and the ditch cleaned out then smoothing with the final. Anyway, it took 5 passes. Skidders could not do the job no matter what Fast Eddy would claim. 

That was back in the cutting of the "last of the old growth". Traffic was heavy. Roads had been built to a high standard and were wide to get the big equipment in and out.
There was also money coming in and a big budget.


----------



## BeatCJ

Steve NW WI said:


> ...There are very few good blade guys left here now...


I'm pretty sure that's true everywhere. I used to work in construction engineering, until I was promoted to a desk (hated that job for 5 years, went back to school, now I love my job) and I remember one job where the company owner thought he was a blade man. This was way before lasers. He was going broke quickly, until he hired an experienced blade guy. The machine slowed down but the work sped up.


----------



## 1270d

BeatCJ said:


> The machine slowed down but the work sped up.



That's quite often what the best way to make money. 


Here's a look at what I do


----------



## HuskStihl

1270d said:


> That's quite often what the best way to make money.
> 
> 
> Here's a look at what I do



That's the weirdest chainsaw I've ever seen


----------



## BeatCJ

HuskStihl said:


> That's the weirdest chainsaw I've ever seen


It's just the colors of the plastics that's throwin' you off.


----------



## northmanlogging

Been slower than expected around here lately... but I moved the missus this morning start cutting saturday...

Only hitch in the git-a-long this time was trailer brakes not working with the peddle (manually they did fine) and hitting a massive pot hole that I hadn't seen and catching a little air in the ole f-600, chucked the trailer into the other lane... Ya ever catch air in a spring suspended dump truck... its uncomfortable... lots of rust falling off the ceiling having to hunt around for the cb mic, visors flapping around, mirrors a needing adjusting again...

Also managed to put my not a Morse cable cutter together today, its been hidding in the forge for 5 years now without a bottom blade... found some replacements a few weeks ago.

That thing is the bee's knees for hacking cable in two, half a dozen smacks with a 3# hammer and pop goes the 1/2 cable, wishing I'd gotten it fixed 3 years ago, beats the hell out using an old axe and stump all day long.


----------



## SliverPicker

1270d said:


> That's quite often what the best way to make money.
> 
> 
> Here's a look at what I do




Smooth beats fast every time.


----------



## Joe46

So I've been kinda layed low with some kinda crud so I 've been watching a lot of videos. Came across one last night from a logger down south. He had about 19-20 trees in a row that he was going to drive. Now he explained how the breeze was blowing and how safe it was going to be because he assured us viewers that all his face cuts were OSHA approved. I guess I must still be on the turnip truck because I didn't know OHSA approved face cuts.


----------



## 2dogs

northmanlogging said:


> Been slower than expected around here lately... but I moved the missus this morning start cutting saturday...
> 
> Only hitch in the git-a-long this time was trailer brakes not working with the peddle (manually they did fine) and hitting a massive pot hole that I hadn't seen and catching a little air in the ole f-600, chucked the trailer into the other lane... Ya ever catch air in a spring suspended dump truck... its uncomfortable... lots of rust falling off the ceiling having to hunt around for the cb mic, visors flapping around, mirrors a needing adjusting again...
> 
> Also managed to put my not a Morse cable cutter together today, its been hidding in the forge for 5 years now without a bottom blade... found some replacements a few weeks ago.
> 
> That thing is the bee's knees for hacking cable in two, half a dozen smacks with a 3# hammer and pop goes the 1/2 cable, wishing I'd gotten it fixed 3 years ago, beats the hell out using an old axe and stump all day long.


 A cordless grinder with a cutting blade works great too.


----------



## rwoods

Joe46 said:


> So I've been kinda layed low with some kinda crud so I 've been watching a lot of videos. Came across one last night from a logger down south. He had about 19-20 trees in a row that he was going to drive. Now he explained how the breeze was blowing and how safe it was going to be because he assured us viewers that all his face cuts were OSHA approved. I guess I must still be on the turnip truck because I didn't know OHSA approved face cuts.



Don't be talking bad about my bud - Logger Wade.  Ron


----------



## rwoods

How about a DOT approved bridge? He didn't really claim that but it is probably stronger than some approved bridges I have crossed. Ron


----------



## 1270d

I enjoy some of his footage. That is a nice layout.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i don't think we would get away with that much soil disturbance that steep.


----------



## coltont

I've watched lots of wades videos. I enjoy them. Sometimes he does dicey ****. You guys would be lying if you said you don't do some of the dicey stuff that he does every once and a great while. The skidder is 234677 miles away. Your out of wedges. It's cold so you go dump a tree into the mess so you can stay working and keep warm, and like magic the last tree you cut takes the whole mess down perfect. Then you run out of gas and are screwed again cause you left it on the skidder.............


----------



## bitzer

You guys don't wana know what i think about wades cutn.

Dicey **** comes with hand cutting.

1270- I've never seen a processor in action like that. Pretty cool. You'd be able to utilize a lotta wood in my stands when I'm done. About 4" is all I go on the small end. 6-8" is ideal for me. Thanks for the video!


----------



## rwoods

Rumor is DOT is going to require these at all scale houses soon:







Ron


----------



## Gologit

LOL...I wouldn't be surprised. I wonder why the two inclinometers show different readings. Okay, I figured it out but how often do retired loggers get to use "inclinometer" in a sentence?


----------



## northmanlogging

double decker busses, broken thermometers, overalls, or hitler stashs?


----------



## rwoods

Shoot straight with us, NM. How much tilt do you usually get out of the old F600 before she gets too tipsy? Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

??? To be honest I'm usually going to fast to notice...

Almost tipped it over backwards last week though, wasn't on much of a grade but dumping some wet top soil that didn't really want to come out. 

I've had it at about say 20 deg loaded maybe a little more? Wasn't comfortable. Steep enough to hear the load start to shift.


----------



## BeatCJ

Gologit said:


> LOL...I wouldn't be surprised. I wonder why the two inclinometers show different readings. Okay, I figured it out but how often do retired loggers get to use "inclinometer" in a sentence?


I'm going to call it 8 degrees of lean in the suspension. I've seen fire trucks on a tilt table at shows.


----------



## 2dogs

Water rationing starts May 1st.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Hate moving but love the new house a big thank you to Slow-p and Shmuck for the help.


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> I wonder why the two inclinometers show different readings



Is it % vs degrees vs topo? I've seen that come up a few times.


----------



## BeatCJ

It's in the double decker bus photo in rwoods post above. Both show degrees.

I'm going to put my money on my funsucker guess.


----------



## SliverPicker

Start dropping trees on the first job of the new season. Still feet of snow in places, but it's hard enough to walk on. 80 miles from the homestead. Done cutting by 12:30. Blown out of the SOB. I saw a healthy 18" aspen blow over and I called the game due to weather.

I hope this one doesn't go this way from start to finish.


----------



## Metals406

2dogs said:


> Water rationing starts May 1st.


I saw yer gooberner wants to implement "shower fines" for long showers. . . Riiiiiiiiiight.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> I saw yer gooberner wants to implement "shower fines" for long showers. . . Riiiiiiiiiight.



Shower with a friend? Nah, that wouldn't work either. Those kind of showers tend to lend themselves to serious foolishness and an even longer shower than usual.

I wouldn't expect Governer Moonbeam to relate to that though. Or, then again....


----------



## northmanlogging

Guess it depends on the friend?

Could end up being 1 long shower followed by 2 longer showers, or one very short shower followed by wash and wash and never get clean.


----------



## BeatCJ

I should do that at my house! I have plenty of water, but with the three teenagers there, the days that the wife gets the last shower she always comes out grumpy!


----------



## 2dogs

Metals406 said:


> I saw yer gooberner wants to implement "shower fines" for long showers. . . Riiiiiiiiiight.


The LAW requires a 2 gallon per minute shower head and a maximum 5 minute shower. The City hire "water cops" during the summer to enforce the regulations.

Still the City does not address the real problem here. That is well "owners" using as much water as they want. Only 30% of the legal wells have a water meter.


----------



## Gologit

We have a couple of part-time water cops up here now. They're law enforcement students from the community college. The county bought them brand new pickups to drive.
Yesterday, when it rained almost 2 inches in 24 hours, they were out on patrol. We're not sure why.
They don't let them carry guns. We're grateful for that.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> They don't let them carry guns.



Yet


----------



## Trx250r180

Gologit said:


> We have a couple of part-time water cops up here now. They're law enforcement students from the community college. The county bought them brand new pickups to drive.
> Yesterday, when it rained almost 2 inches in 24 hours, they were out on patrol. We're not sure why.
> They don't let them carry guns. We're greatful for that.


Could always put some squirt guns in their truck when they are not looking


----------



## BeatCJ

Bet it's not legal to fill them.

And what's the equivalent of a single bullet ?


----------



## SliverPicker

northmanlogging said:


> Guess it depends on the friend?
> 
> Could end up being 1 long shower followed by 2 longer showers, or one very short shower followed by wash and wash and never get clean.



I am going to have to wash my brain out with lye soap after reading that, NM.


----------



## Metals406

Trx250r180 said:


> Could always put some squirt guns in their truck when they are not looking


HAHAHA!!!


----------



## Gologit

Trx250r180 said:


> Could always put some squirt guns in their truck when they are not looking



Hmmm...since they want to be real cops when they grow up we could arm them with heavy weaponry...SUPER SOAKERS!
They could creep stealthily through quiet residential neighborhoods, dressed in cop-ninja costumes and when they catch some little old lady illegally watering her hydrangeas they could leap out and blast her. Instant gratification.


----------



## SliverPicker

To Serve and Protect...lol!


----------



## northmanlogging

Lost a skidder tire today... patch didn't hold or something, now the sidewall is gone.

Can't afford to replace it, being as I've spent the last 3 months fixing my old ass equipment.

Still have a spare but its bald and I'm working on steep (like cat ground steep) clay... haven't been paid yet, climber supposed to be out tomorrow but weather is probably not going to cooperate... 

And I have a compression fracture, sprained acl, and tendonitus of my right knee...

otherwise things are doing good.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Lost a skidder tire today... patch didn't hold or something, now the sidewall is gone.
> 
> Can't afford to replace it, being as I've spent the last 3 months fixing my old ass equipment.
> 
> Still have a spare but its bald and I'm working on steep (like cat ground steep) clay... haven't been paid yet, climber supposed to be out tomorrow but weather is probably not going to cooperate...
> 
> And I have a compression fracture, sprained acl, and tendonitus of my right knee...
> 
> otherwise things are doing good.


i'm broke down to bro......F' ing truck.
i tore my acl completely years ago, it is a pain like no other. heal well.


----------



## Trx250r180

It just rained real hard here if that makes it any better Northman. 
I hear that rain and clay make skidder tires ,well umm........


----------



## northmanlogging

raining here and there when I left. I'm fairly sure I can get the missus in and back out even with the wet clay, put its supposed to be windy tomorrow... and that puts the kabosh on any climbing and falling, more power lines...


----------



## Trx250r180

It just quit the downpour and skies are clearing up ,see some daylight popping through ,will send this south for ya ,maybe it will dry the clay some ,i have bobcat work to do this weekend ,stump burning ,oh fun ,mud ,rubber tires and trying to get stumps to burn ...My old junk just blew a hose ,i know about breakdowns ,200 bucks of oil on the ground i just put in the machine a week ago


----------



## northmanlogging

Most of my repairs over the last 3 months have been more a lack of maintenance from the previous owners... So by the time they got to me each one cost several hundred, just to make the machine reliable again. As always its things I knew I was getting into before I bought them, just timing was horrible is all.

Grease, oil changes, fix leaks while they are small, and dammit learn to ****ing weld...


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> Lost a skidder tire today... patch didn't hold or something, now the sidewall is gone.
> 
> Can't afford to replace it, being as I've spent the last 3 months fixing my old ass equipment.
> 
> Still have a spare but its bald and I'm working on steep (like cat ground steep) clay... haven't been paid yet, climber supposed to be out tomorrow but weather is probably not going to cooperate...
> 
> And I have a compression fracture, sprained acl, and tendonitus of my right knee...
> 
> otherwise things are doing good.


Now yer log'n.

Sorry ya lost some rubber. :0(


----------



## Gologit

A quote from our far traveling and long suffering woods mechanic..."f-ing machinery just hates us, that's all there is to it".


----------



## northmanlogging

I ****ing hate cotton wood...

I smell like dog poo... 

And damned near lost one over the neighbors driveway, with the missus being timber locked... wind and weak hold wood...

Rained hard last night so all that clay turned into mud instantly... trying to walk the missus up a ridge and started sliding towards the steeper edge/powerlines... That Spare is more work than its worth... Nothing to tie onto in front, have to make it to the top or give up, so I hooked a snatch block to the blade, ran the winch line around the side and to a stump forward and mostly to the side... doggy walked her the rest of the way up the hill.

Tomorrow should be better the missus is already on top of the ridge (just hope battery isn't dead) 5 more that need rigged and I can worry about getting em out when it dries up some more.


----------



## catbuster

The sun gear in the old Cat's transmission lost a bunch of teeth today under the stress of sidehilling on a shot rock section. She freewheeled into an Allegheny valley. Bad day. She's going to be a really heavy recovery tomorrow.


----------



## 1270d

That sounds like something you should post some pictures of.


----------



## catbuster

I agree, but we were very clearly told not to take photos by the oil company we're building the road for.


----------



## HuskStihl

catbuster said:


> The sun gear in the old Cat's transmission lost a bunch of teeth today under the stress of sidehilling on a shot rock section. She freewheeled into an Allegheny valley. Bad day. She's going to be a really heavy recovery tomorrow.


Wow. Good luck


----------



## catbuster

Yeah... It was a bad call to get on radio while I was working on the upper section. I don't think I've ever driven so quickly down that road. At least Mike is okay. That's the most important thing. But when we pulled the cover off the final, we did a double take. It wasn't operator error. This machine is just an old D8N with a ton of hours that was close to a rebuild anyway.


----------



## northmanlogging

Found a used Firestone forestry tire... 50%+... about 2 blocks from the day job... won't mention how much I paid for it, would be rude... suffice to say I may have to go back and get the mate for just a little more.

Only issue is it full of calcium... so I have to figure out how to get it out of the crummy and on the skidder by hand... solo... should be fun.


----------



## BeatCJ

Rig a gin pole to the missus and use the winch?


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Found a used Firestone forestry tire... 50%+... about 2 blocks from the day job... won't mention how much I paid for it, would be rude... suffice to say I may have to go back and get the mate for just a little more.
> 
> Only issue is it full of calcium... so I have to figure out how to get it out of the crummy and on the skidder by hand... solo... should be fun.


That's how a lawn tractor tire feels to normal sized people


----------



## Gypo Logger

BeatCJ said:


> Rig a gin pole to the missus and use the winch?


That sounds good to me, of course with the missus in compliance.


----------



## 2dogs

northmanlogging said:


> Lost a skidder tire today... patch didn't hold or something, now the sidewall is gone.
> 
> Can't afford to replace it, being as I've spent the last 3 months fixing my old ass equipment.
> 
> Still have a spare but its bald and I'm working on steep (like cat ground steep) clay... haven't been paid yet, climber supposed to be out tomorrow but weather is probably not going to cooperate...
> 
> And I have a compression fracture, sprained acl, and tendonitus of my right knee...
> 
> otherwise things are doing good.


 Last summer I tore something in my left shoulder. likely a rotator cuff, and it has been bothering me since then. Last Friday the doc gave me two cortisone shots using ultrasound. He said it can take up to six weeks before the full effects of the shots are felt but man do I feel better already! I can lift my left arm all the way over my head and let it back down without needing help from my right arm. I'm not even whimpering turning off the shower valve.

BTW on Thursday I got vaccinated for Tdap, shingles, and pneumonia. I had to go to the grocery store for the vaccines since the doctors office doesn't give shots. Those three injections cost $700.00. Thankfully insurance covered them 100%.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i tore mine 4 years ago.........it hurt like hell and my arm went numb. i am a hard head and been living with it, it got better very slowly. good luck Bill.


----------



## BeatCJ

2dogs said:


> Last summer I tore something in my left shoulder. likely a rotator cuff, and it has been bothering me since then. Last Friday the doc gave me two cortisone shots using ultrasound. He said it can take up to six weeks before the full effects of the shots are felt but man do I feel better already! I can lift my left arm all the way over my head and let it back down without needing help from my right arm. I'm not even whimpering turning off the shower valve.


That was the way it was when I got mine. I had such a small tear that you could only see the cyst from the leaking fluid. I got the shot, and it was the first good nights sleep I had in three months. The best thing was it allowed me to function through Physical Therapy. I'm actually in better shape now than before I had hurt it.


----------



## rwoods

I'm almost eight weeks out now from rotator cuff and slapp repair. The take you to your knees pain is gone and my flexibility is probably over 90% returned. Surgery was easy compared to the P/T. P/T has been painful as I can't relax my arm like "normal" people can. Regular folks are able to relax their arms while in an overhead position and have them involuntarily fall. I thought the PTA was nuts when she told me this. She was fussing at me to relax because she was actually lifting my rear off the table as she pushed my arm back. Long story short, I started polling folks at work and other gatherings; I only found three who like me could not relax their arms - my three daughters. I told my findings to the PT and PTA. They have let up on the fussing. 
I've been dreading starting a saw, but now I am doing weigh exercises that mimic this without any pain.  The worse exercise for me is pedaling the bike with your hands. It doesn't hurt but 1.1 miles in 10 minutes at 95 watts completely zaps me. I don't really know how they figure the mileage but it certainly feels like you gone a mile with your hands. When I first started this exercise I could barely hit 30 watts and then only in spurts.

I'm glad the shot worked for you guys. I got one in my left shoulder before my right shoulder repair. I couldn't tell it did anything other than lighten my wallet by $250.00.

Ron


----------



## coltont

I'd sooner suffer. That 250 buys allot of liquid painkiller.


----------



## 2dogs

The doc told me guys can expect 3 problems as we age. Bad knees (got those), bad shoulders (got one), and I forget the third thing. Something about memory, maybe.

Oh yeah and bad eyes. Mine are OK for now.


----------



## BeatCJ

I've worn glasses since I was 9, so I have the bad eyes down. Of course, no I am using contact and OTC readers at the same time. My knees, while some days feel like they have 1/4- gravel in them, aren't too bad. Luckily I only played High School football, my cousin's that played in college can barely walk.

I use my resistance band regularly. Most of the PT I could have done at home, but the hand bike thing, hard to find that machine. That and the ultrasound, and electroshock therapy thing...


----------



## treeslayer2003

2dogs said:


> The doc told me guys can expect 3 problems as we age. Bad knees (got those), bad shoulders (got one), and I forget the third thing. Something about memory, maybe.
> 
> Oh yeah and bad eyes. Mine are OK for now.


well hell, i pretty much fit that description lol. what else? i'm only 43...........


----------



## Whitespider

Y'all have kept this thread goin' for over 2 years??


*I'VE MOVED HERE*


----------



## Metals406

Whitespider said:


> Y'all have kept this thread goin' for over 2 years??
> 
> 
> *I'VE MOVED HERE*


¿Que


----------



## BeatCJ

Whitespider said:


> Y'all have kept this thread goin' for over 2 years??
> 
> 
> *I'VE MOVED HERE*


We prefer All y'all


----------



## Whitespider

BeatCJ said:


> _*We prefer All y'all*_


So... is that a rule or a regulation?? 

*I'VE MOVED HERE*


----------



## BeatCJ

Since it's a PREFERENCE, obviously neither.


----------



## Whitespider

BeatCJ said:


> _*Since it's a PREFERENCE, obviously neither.*_


Hmmm.... "obviously" I was a bit slow on that one.

*I'VE MOVED HERE*


----------



## SliverPicker

Is this going to become an Us vs. Them thing? Yawn. Count me out.


----------



## Whitespider

SliverPicker said:


> _*Is this going to become an Us vs. Them thing? Yawn. Count me out.*_


OK... you're out.
That's one for me and... well, as I see it (and that's all that matters)... zero for y'all.

*I'VE MOVED HERE*


----------



## SliverPicker

No bad knees or shoulders. Knock on wood!


----------



## Whitespider

We don't have wood here... we burn tires.

*I'VE MOVED HERE*


----------



## Eccentric

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/this-board-has-the-best-ignore-function.278358/


----------



## treeslayer2003

spider WTF is wrong with you? you are acting like brush ape.........is that really who you are? i have read your posts for several years, didn't think you were a nut. we agree on many things but acting childish is not one of them.
let it go man.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> The doc told me guys can expect 3 problems as we age. Bad knees (got those), bad shoulders (got one), and I forget the third thing. Something about memory, maybe.
> 
> Oh yeah and bad eyes. Mine are OK for now.



That's all that's wrong with you? Wait. There's carpal tunnel surgery and hip replacements and knee replacements and spinal fusion, and degenerative arthritis, and bifocals and tri focals and hair loss and stomach ulcers and skin cancer and hearing loss...well you get the picture.
Just some of God's little door prizes for getting older.

Oh, before I forget...the hair loss thing isnt so bad. Your head might get shiny but the hair starts growing out of your nose and ears in volumes that more than make up the difference.

There's more but I can't remember it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

geez Bob...............what can i look forward to thats good? i already got at least half of what ya said...........


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> geez Bob...............what can i look forward to thats good? i already got at least half of what ya said...........



No big deal. The ailments come on slowly and you adjust for them as you go.
You just keep on until you either can't anymore or just plain don't want to.

My favorite orthedpedic surgeon knows a hell of a lot more about this kind of stuff than I do and he said one time that the human body is not meant to take the punishment we give it when we're young. It gets even with us when we get older. He's right.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i believe it, i remember pushing myself to the limit of farther.......it hurt a little then, alot now. dad told me it would, i didn't listen.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> i believe it, i remember pushing myself to the limit of farther.......it hurt a little then, alot now. dad told me it would, i didn't listen.


 LOL...I didn't listen either. My Dad ran a crop dusting outfit and he tried to get me to stay with that. Said it was safer. I dunno...I know a lot of busted up old crop dusters too. 
The most dangerous job in logging is working in the office. You wind up with a big belly and you can get it jammed under the desk and be stuck there for days.


----------



## 2dogs

Gologit said:


> That's all that's wrong with you? Wait. There's carpal tunnel surgery and hip replacements and knee replacements and spinal fusion, and degenerative arthritis, and bifocals and tri focals and hair loss and stomach ulcers and skin cancer and hearing loss...well you get the picture.
> Just some of God's little door prizes for getting older.
> 
> Oh, before I forget...the hair loss thing isnt so bad. Your head might get shiny but the hair starts growing out of your nose and ears in volumes that more than make up the difference.
> 
> There's more but I can't remember it.


I've had pretty severe hearing loss since grade school. It really effected my grades in 7th and 8th grade.


----------



## 2dogs

Hey Mods can we put Patty on the ignore list for awhile? I want everyone else to Google William Shatner and his water plan. Patty should not be allowed to see this post cause she might start throwing things at California.


----------



## 2dogs

William Shatner is Canadian by the way. What have I been telling you about those people? Can't be trusted is what I told you.


----------



## 1270d

At least he s not coming after the great lakes....yet. I'm sure a project like that would interrupt the migration rhythms of some squirrel or centipede.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> LOL...I didn't listen either. My Dad ran a crop dusting outfit and he tried to get me to stay with that. Said it was safer. I dunno...I know a lot of busted up old crop dusters too.
> The most dangerous job in logging is working in the office. You wind up with a big belly and you can get it jammed under the desk and be stuck there for days.


the crazy thing is, i never got a severe injury in the woods. always doing some thing else like mechanic work.......wich goes along with woods work.......oh bumps and bruises, a little cut and maybe the white finger nerve damage or what ever makes my finners hum. all the bad stuff came from tryin to be a 8' 300lb dude.


----------



## slowp

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/exclusive-william-shatners-30-billion-116672789084.html

Oregon has rivers that are closer. Highway 5? Is that Califonuckian for I-5? There's a few hills to go over or under--like the Siskiyous. 

I suggest that William Shatner buy my place. I'll sell it to him for a couple million dollars which is cheap for you Californians.


----------



## SliverPicker

2dogs said:


> I've had pretty severe hearing loss since grade school. It really effected my grades in 7th and 8th grade.



What?


----------



## SliverPicker

1270d said:


> At least he s not coming after the great lakes....yet. I'm sure a project like that would interrupt the migration rhythms of some squirrel or centipede.



Its literally only a matter of time.


----------



## 2dogs

SliverPicker said:


> What?


I SAID, "DAVE"S NOT HERE!"


----------



## northmanlogging

No man its me DAVE let me in man I got the stuff


----------



## northmanlogging

First time I've been on level ground and sitting since 8 this morning, feel like I'm falling over...

Got a new spare for the missus, Firestone forestry special! with like 50%+ tread on it... 

Thinking I'm not going to try changing calcium filled skidder tires alone... ever again... The calcium did make a big difference in both stability and traction though.


----------



## Whitespider

treeslayer2003 said:


> _*spider WTF is wrong with you?*_


Yeah... I know.
The truth is... the fact that someone can brag here about trollin' the (so-called) "firewooders" and intentionally "pizzin' 'em off (although, she gives herself too much credit).
Yet not a single person on this forum calls her out on it??
And then, even worse, some defend it, and even post about the "respect" due her??
Well sorry... I call 'em like I see 'em (that's me... it always will be).
All I did was give 'em what they "respected"... nothin' more.
Still... I'm sorry that the rest of ya' had to put up with me for a day... it weren't fair... but it-is-what-it-is... it struck a cord with me.
*


----------



## slowp

OK. Enough. You are way more sensitive than I ever could imagine a man being. I do seem to annoy the manly men on the firewood site. I'll continue to do so because I'm not going to treat you special. Don't move here has been thrown around for several decades. We didn't do it as well as Oregon. If you don't understand a joke, too bad. Shut up and quit yer whining and widdle boy attempts at humor. 

I do not mince words. IF you'd ever put any time in the woods, where you have to yell sometimes to have a conversation, you might understand that things can get "blunt".
One doesn't say, "Please don't stand there because a turn is coming in and you could be in danger and be killed or hurt by a log bumping or falling on you." Nope. Get out of the way, will suffice. _Don't move here_ gets the point across. 

I can't seem to say anything without offending some of the widdle boys on the firewood forum and the off topic forum. At least one seems to think I'm a witch. I've never been to Iowa but from the posts of the Iowa "men" I get the feeling that Northman's conclusion is correct. I have gone to school with, and later worked with a refugee from Iowa. I don't think he ever went back. He said it was ruined. The creeks and rivers were paved over or straightened out. The land was plowed up. The people were stuck in an old time warp. Your posts and other Iowa folks are confirming the latter. 

Now go discuss your private parts. You seem to be able to entertain folks better doing that. Oh, and threads about peeing. Those demand much of that respect you speak of. 

Don't move here. You'd hate it because there are quite a few of us who know about algebraic expressions. Or used to know. I was eating lunch today and a guy I was talking to recited a Robert Frost poem. We're a different world, thank goodness.


----------



## northmanlogging

The problem and I see it now.

You (i.e whitespider) are functionally illiterate (means you can read and sometimes spell but don't understand a ****ing thing).

And I'm not trying to be mean or trolling you, stop and read the ****ing sentence. Just been on the dry side (meaning eastern warshington) and pissing off the Firewooders on their forum (can't help it), meaning she's been hanging around in the other forum probably giving sound advice that has probably been misread, and twisted around. or purposely misquoted. 

Start at the beginning, and try not to let your beer gut and balls get in the way of facts.


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> The problem and I see it now.
> 
> You (i.e whitespider) are functionally illiterate (means you can read and sometimes spell but don't understand a ****ing thing).
> 
> And I'm not trying to be mean or trolling you, stop and read the ****ing sentence. Just been on the dry side (meaning eastern warshington) and pissing off the Firewooders on their forum (can't help it), meaning she's been hanging around in the other forum probably giving sound advice that has probably been misread, and twisted around. or purposely misquoted.
> 
> Start at the beginning, and try not to let your beer gut and balls get in the way of facts.



You translated it well.


----------



## Metals406

Well, that pretty much sums that **** up.

Who wants a beer?


----------



## Whitespider

northmanlogging said:


> _*The problem and I see it now.*_


Nice try... I ain't buyin' it.
B'sides, the vulgarity destroyed any credibility in your post.



slowp said:


> _*OK. Enough. You are way more sensitive than I ever could imagine a man being.
> I do not mince words.
> We're a different world, thank goodness.*_


Give me a break... this ain't about me... and it sure-in-hell ain't about you.

Oh... since you think it makes a man...
I've likely read more Frost than you realize exists.
You and your world ain't special... _*you*_ just _*think*_ it is.

_The bear puts both arms around the tree above her
And draws it down as if it were a lover
And its choke cherries lips to kiss good-bye,
Then lets it snap back upright in the sky.
Her next step rocks a boulder on the wall
(She's making her cross-country in the fall).
Her great weight creaks the barbed-wire in its staples
As she flings over and off down through the maples,
Leaving on one wire tooth a lock a hair.
Suck is the uncaged progress of the bear.
The world has room to make a bear feel free;
The universe seems cramped to you and me.
Man acts more like the poor bear in a cage
His mood rejecting all his mind suggests.
He paces back and forth and never rests
The toe-nail click and shuffle of his feet,
The telescope at one end of his beat,
And at the other end the microscope,
Two instruments of nearly equal hope,
And in conjunction giving quite a spread.
Or if he rests from scientific tread,
'Tis only to sit back and sway his head
Through ninety odd degrees of arc, it seems,
Between two metaphysical extremes.
He sits back on his fundamental butt
With lifted snout and eyes (if any) shut,
(He almost looks religious but he's not).
And back and forth he sways from cheek to cheek ..._
...
...
...
*


----------



## tla100

northmanlogging said:


> she's been hanging around in the other forum probably giving sound advice that has probably been misread, and twisted around. or purposely misquoted.



Funny guy, have you read her posts in the firewood section? Sound advice, right.......twisted words.....nope


----------



## Metals406

Can't we all just get along?

Internet arguing is ****ing Ghey.


----------



## Whitespider

Metals406 said:


> _*Can't we all just get along?*_


Sure... I'll try anything at least twice... I ain't never seen the point in burnin' bridges behind me.
*


----------



## northmanlogging

loading a vid of the skid trail... its like 20 minutes, last check youtube has 129 minutes to go at 4%... Probably loading the wrong one too.


----------



## Gypo Logger

Dave's not here. Lol. Too Funny!


----------



## Gypo Logger




----------



## Gypo Logger

slowp said:


> OK. Enough. You are way more sensitive than I ever could imagine a man being. I do seem to annoy the manly men on the firewood site. I'll continue to do so because I'm not going to treat you special. Don't move here has been thrown around for several decades. We didn't do it as well as Oregon. If you don't understand a joke, too bad. Shut up and quit yer whining and widdle boy attempts at humor.
> 
> I do not mince words. IF you'd ever put any time in the woods, where you have to yell sometimes to have a conversation, you might understand that things can get "blunt".
> One doesn't say, "Please don't stand there because a turn is coming in and you could be in danger and be killed or hurt by a log bumping or falling on you." Nope. Get out of the way, will suffice. _Don't move here_ gets the point across.
> 
> I can't seem to say anything without offending some of the widdle boys on the firewood forum and the off topic forum. At least one seems to think I'm a witch. I've never been to Iowa but from the posts of the Iowa "men" I get the feeling that Northman's conclusion is correct. I have gone to school with, and later worked with a refugee from Iowa. I don't think he ever went back. He said it was ruined. The creeks and rivers were paved over or straightened out. The land was plowed up. The people were stuck in an old time warp. Your posts and other Iowa folks are confirming the latter.
> 
> Now go discuss your private parts. You seem to be able to entertain folks better doing that. Oh, and threads about peeing. Those demand much of that respect you speak of.
> 
> Don't move here. You'd hate it because there are quite a few of us who know about algebraic expressions. Or used to know. I was eating lunch today and a guy I was talking to recited a Robert Frost poem. We're a different world, thank goodness.


Got no idea why I liked her post, but I did.
John


----------



## Gypo Logger




----------



## Whitespider

Gypo Logger said:


> *Got no idea why I liked her post, but I did.*


No explanation required... this is the internet.
Is that you in the picture above?? To be clear, I'm askin' about the guy sittin' in the chair not the one draggin' the stick 
Awesome country...
*


----------



## Samlock

I've been away for few days. Now it seems somebody's got to call the beach boy and tell him to open up the lid of his nursery, so Itchy could slip back in.


----------



## SliverPicker

Just towed the crummy home over 30 miles with my other truck. The little darling broke its timing belt on the way to the job yesterday. Zero production yesterday. Zero production today.

The new saw that I paid shipping on to get it to the dealer a day sooner showed up a day late. Of course there was no refund on the shipping.

Everything's normal...

Carry on.


----------



## northmanlogging

took the hoe out for some squats today... she can lift an ecology block all by herself... I think I may keep her around...


----------



## Samlock

SliverPicker said:


> Just towed the crummy home over 30 miles with my other truck. The little darling broke its timing belt on the way to the job yesterday. Zero production yesterday. Zero production today.
> 
> The new saw that I paid shipping on to get it to the dealer a day sooner showed up a day late. Of course there was no refund on the shipping.
> 
> Everything's normal...
> 
> Carry on.



I hope no twisted valves.


----------



## SliverPicker

No interference on this engine. One camshaft so the valves won't hit each other and the pistons don't contact the valves either.


----------



## 2dogs

Ugh! Not feeling good today. I have a meeting 80 miles round trip that I can miss, so I think I will. Another meeting at 7:30pm tonight. I didn't even eat any rotten meat or moldy food from the back of the refrigerator. Feel like I'm gonna barf.


----------



## Metals406

2dogs said:


> Ugh! Not feeling good today. I have a meeting 80 miles round trip that I can miss, so I think I will. Another meeting at 7:30pm tonight. I didn't even eat any rotten meat or moldy food from the back of the refrigerator. Feel like I'm gonna barf.


Sorry you're feeling gross pard.

I've been dealing with stomach issues, but I think mine is Candita overgrowth in my guts.

Hope ya feel better quick!


----------



## slowp

I dropped the Pointy Trailer off at a consignment place today. It had been on many adventures. But, after I cleaned it out and undid my customizing work, it wasn't the same trailer anymore.


----------



## Gologit

Have you tried out the shower on the new trailer yet?


----------



## slowp

Yes. There's just enough hot water...no hair washing though.


----------



## 2dogs

New trailer? We need pics!


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> New trailer? We need pics!


 Hint...it kinda looks like a gigantic Tic-Tac.


----------



## 2dogs

Well I guess that is better than looking like a giant tick.


----------



## Metals406

Or a giant tack.


----------



## slowp

Or a giant toe.


----------



## Gologit

You people need more coffee.


----------



## treeslayer2003

always need moer coffee......

Nate, can you explain what that candita is? the HB has had awful problems like that off and on for a few years now. docs ain't much help.


----------



## coltont

Had some mental therapy yesterday. Ramps Morels Wild Asparagus.


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> always need moer coffee......
> 
> Nate, can you explain what that candita is? the HB has had awful problems like that off and on for a few years now. docs ain't much help.


It's a yeast that's part of yer natural flora in yer guts.

Diet and other causes can cause it to grow too much, then you have issues.

You have to kill the outgrowth and restore yer balance.

Unchecked, it can go from diarrhea and feeling sick, to causing autoimmune problems.


----------



## BeatCJ

coltont said:


> Had some mental therapy yesterday. Ramps Morels Wild Asparagus.


Man, I love me a mess of morels.


----------



## coltont

Where you from man??


----------



## northmanlogging

Metals406 said:


> Or a giant tack.





slowp said:


> Or a giant toe.



CATS GAME!


----------



## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> It's a yeast that's part of yer natural flora in yer guts.
> 
> Diet and other causes can cause it to grow too much, then you have issues.
> 
> You have to kill the outgrowth and restore yer balance.
> 
> Unchecked, it can go from diarrhea and feeling sick, to causing autoimmune problems.


only thing helps her so far is eatin lots of yogurt. glad i don't have trouble, i can't stand that stuff..........clabbor is what the ol heads called it.......yuk


----------



## coltont

Similar to a case of bubble guts?


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> only thing helps her so far is eatin lots of yogurt. glad i don't have trouble, i can't stand that stuff..........clabbor is what the ol heads called it.......yuk


Kefir is as good as yogurt, but you drink it. It's got way more probiotic than yogurt too. You should pick some up for her.

I like blueberry and strawberry.


----------



## Metals406

coltont said:


> Similar to a case of bubble guts?


Not sure? I've never heard of bubble guts.

This yeast will sure make you as glassy as Hell!


----------



## BeatCJ

SW Washington. We have morels all over the west side of the state, I've picked them everywhere from Forks to downtown Vancouver.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> always need moer coffee......
> 
> Nate, can you explain what that candita is? the HB has had awful problems like that off and on for a few years now.* docs ain't much help*.


I coulda told ya that and saved you a bunch of time!


----------



## treeslayer2003

well..........ifn i need tonsils out er sumthin like that, i do know one i might trust...........i'll have to get on a plane though.......


----------



## northmanlogging

fell some nice Doug Fir today, seems like its been months of the horrible cotton timber, but now I smell like Fir and don't want warsh it off... But I know underneath it all is funk... so I should...


----------



## SliverPicker

North you are you still thinking about getting a yarder? There's one on CL in Washington you might be interested in, $25 k. I had a link for you, but lost it. Maybe a search.i don't know what town it was in.


----------



## northmanlogging

Thinking on it and actually being able to are two different things... there are several if you poke around a bit...

I'm guessing that the one you are looking at is a skagit on a freightliner? carrier with a gm gas upper... 

There is a Koller 300 trailer mounted for 17 too...

But I have no comma in my account right now so its going to have to wait.


----------



## SliverPicker

Correct. It's the Skagit. I tried to pm you the link, but couldn't.


----------



## northmanlogging

tis ok... its been up for over a year now they move the add around the state and sometimes into Oregon... If I where a little dumber or had better luck I would have talked myself into it by now... that gas pot gm upper concerns me a bit. From the map attached to the add its only about 40 miles from home.

I need to concentrate on what I'm doing now and make money at it than worry about getting too big for my britches and having to hire a crew and stuff.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> tis ok... its been up for over a year now they move the add around the state and sometimes into Oregon... If I where a little dumber or had better luck I would have talked myself into it by now... that gas pot gm upper concerns me a bit. From the map attached to the add its only about 40 miles from home.
> 
> I need to concentrate on what I'm doing now and make money at it than worry about getting too big for my britches and having to hire a crew and stuff.





northmanlogging said:


> I need to concentrate on what I'm doing now and make money at it than worry about getting too big for my britches and having to hire a crew and stuff.



But you're missing all the fun. Phone calls, paperwork, meetings, dealing with insurance people, phone calls, chasing parts, all night maintenance marathons, more meetings, paperwork, talking to gubmint people, more phone calls, taxes, laying awake nights, weeks when your crew makes more money than you do, weeks when your crew makes more money than you do and still grumbles that they're not making enough money, visits from regulatory agencies, more paperwork, phone calls with bad news, salesmen, breakdowns, penalties for not doing the paperwork correctly, phone calls threatening dire consequences for not getting the paperwork in on time, weigh cops, game wardens, FS LEOs, herds of 'ologists checking everything from stream siltation to the dietary habits of various slugs and snails, the days when everything is running so smoothly that it worries you because you've probably overlooked something that should be taken care of...
Did I mention the paperwork? And the phone calls?

The happiest day of my life was when I finally went whole-hog and was running a big outfit. The second happiest was the day I got rid of it all.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> But you're missing all the fun. Phone calls, paperwork, meetings, dealing with insurance people, phone calls, chasing parts, all night maintenance marathons, more meetings, paperwork, talking to gubmint people, more phone calls, taxes, laying awake nights, weeks when your crew makes more money than you do, weeks when your crew makes more money than you do and still grumbles that they're not making enough money, visits from regulatory agencies, more paperwork, phone calls with bad news, salesmen, breakdowns, penalties for not doing the paperwork correctly, phone calls threatening dire consequences for not getting the paperwork in on time, weigh cops, game wardens, FS LEOs, herds of 'ologists checking everything from stream siltation to the dietary habits of various slugs and snails, the days when everything is running so smoothly that it worries you because you've probably overlooked something that should be taken care of...
> Did I mention the paperwork? And the phone calls?
> 
> The happiest day of my life was when I finally went whole-hog and was running a big outfit. The second happiest was the day I got rid of it all.


 they laugh at me for my little 3-4 loads week now.........i am happy and make as much or more than i did with a couple other guys worrying me to death and cutting over lines and falling trees in the smz and........aw hell i agree with you Bob.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> But you're missing all the fun. Phone calls, paperwork, meetings, dealing with insurance people, phone calls, chasing parts, all night maintenance marathons, more meetings, paperwork, talking to gubmint people, more phone calls, taxes, laying awake nights, weeks when your crew makes more money than you do, weeks when your crew makes more money than you do and still grumbles that they're not making enough money, visits from regulatory agencies, more paperwork, phone calls with bad news, salesmen, breakdowns, penalties for not doing the paperwork correctly, phone calls threatening dire consequences for not getting the paperwork in on time, weigh cops, game wardens, FS LEOs, herds of 'ologists checking everything from stream siltation to the dietary habits of various slugs and snails, the days when everything is running so smoothly that it worries you because you've probably overlooked something that should be taken care of...
> Did I mention the paperwork? And the phone calls?
> 
> The happiest day of my life was when I finally went whole-hog and was running a big outfit. The second happiest was the day I got rid of it all.


You forgot texts. . . Loggers love texting now.

Ride along with a buddy last Friday.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> But you're missing all the fun. Phone calls, paperwork, meetings, dealing with insurance people, phone calls, chasing parts, all night maintenance marathons, more meetings, paperwork, talking to gubmint people, more phone calls, taxes, laying awake nights, weeks when your crew makes more money than you do, weeks when your crew makes more money than you do and still grumbles that they're not making enough money, visits from regulatory agencies, more paperwork, phone calls with bad news, salesmen, breakdowns, penalties for not doing the paperwork correctly, phone calls threatening dire consequences for not getting the paperwork in on time, weigh cops, game wardens, FS LEOs, herds of 'ologists checking everything from stream siltation to the dietary habits of various slugs and snails, the days when everything is running so smoothly that it worries you because you've probably overlooked something that should be taken care of...
> Did I mention the paperwork? And the phone calls?
> 
> The happiest day of my life was when I finally went whole-hog and was running a big outfit. The second happiest was the day I got rid of it all.


You forgot texts. . . Loggers love texting now.

Ride along with a buddy last Friday.


----------



## 1270d

We do a lot of texting. With truckers, land owners, foresters, everybody. And everybody with a phone wears a headset so there is no need to slow down to talk.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> You forgot texts. . . Loggers love texting now.
> 
> Ride along with a buddy last Friday.


Nate are those the bunks you made? i still want to know why y'all stop short on height then put a round peg in top.....


----------



## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> We do a lot of texting. With truckers, land owners, foresters, everybody. And everybody with a phone wears a headset so there is no need to slow down to talk.


really? how do you work and text? i hate a cell phone and refuse to use one because i watched my son text all the time.......while i was talking to him..........good thing he is quick lol.


----------



## Gologit

No texting. Too slow...for me anyway...too cryptic, not enough inflection, and I can never remember all the damn abbreviations. When I talk to somebody I want to hear their voice. Too much gets lost in the translation otherwise. 
Also, it's hard to yell at somebody with a text.
And yeah, I'm old.


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, so whats worse an old soul or just old? what will i be when i am old? double old? oh, thanks for calling me a kid the other day, i chuckled lol. most folks think i am in my mid 50s.


----------



## Trx250r180

I see you are smarter than me ,i pack flippy cap down ,so i get the oil down the back ,looks like your way less likely for a cap failure


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, i had that happen with a husky, was not the cap, was a screw came out that went into the oil tank.
seems you guys on the west coast carry cap side down, muffler is mighty hot is why i carry caps up.


----------



## 1270d

I don't abbreviate in text messages. They are used for short to the point type of things only. The kind that don't involve yelling, or any need to interpret vocal inflection.

For example I might text the trucker in the evening when I leave the job to let him know how many loads of what is on the landing and if we need something moved first. He goes to bed early and the text will be there waiting when he starts up. Another example... To the forester.... " is the ROW permit clear?" , "yes". 

Quick and easy. phone calls are for anything requiring more than a sentence or two.


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> lol, i had that happen with a husky, was not the cap, was a screw came out that went into the oil tank.
> seems you guys on the west coast carry cap side down, muffler is mighty hot is why i carry caps up.




Mufflers are hot? who knew... the big felling dogs do a pretty good job of keeping the exhaust at bay. That or I'm just used to being on fire.

I've had more trouble with the old screw caps coming loose then the flippy caps, the flippy caps are either closed or not, the screw caps can work them selves loose if you don't torque em down right.


----------



## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> ....
> 
> I've had more trouble with the old screw caps coming loose then the flippy caps, the flippy caps are either closed or not, the screw caps can work them selves loose if you don't torque em down right.



As they say "your mileage may vary", this firewood hack has a few saws that take a tool to unscrew anything hand-tightened and that self unscrews anything that is tightened with a tool. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Well got the last load of this latest job off the landing today, nice tight landing with barely enough room so I've managed to convince the Self Loader jockey to load it on Sunday and haul it in Monday morning.

Anyway clients are not home so of course all the neighbors come out of the wood work, one well one and a 1/3 are there to feed the critters, adn generally get in the way, the other is there to take away some horse poo... Their collective timing couldn't have been any worse then their parking both in the skid road and both in the way of where the truck needs to turn around. Get that all figured out, on dude leaves and the lady and her son? stick around to "watch the big truck", while conning me out of an old 6pt mac... 

So loading goes more less by the book, but I notice he's having some trouble with his reach, I'm not worried if he's not worried...

Truck leaves and since this is the last load I get busy with fixing these folks driveway, somewhere in there I hear a nice big smash... but sounds like the truck kept going... it didn't...

About halfway down this private road, blocking all but the one driveway, trailer got a little off track and found an old stump, bent the reach and pulled it most of the way out... By the time I get there all my logs are stacked on the side of the road and the driver is trying to figure out what the Hel he's going to do next, all the neighbors are standing around watching.

Anyway we get the truck and trailer out of the way, and suss out a plan, as of now he needs to build a new reach (this one is the spare as he crushed the good one last week) so Mon, or Tue, night I get to haul the welder on over to his place and see If'n I can light his yard on fire for a change.


----------



## northmanlogging

Well...

up around 7 today home around 10 last night, got busy fixing the dumper trucks rear end, high low wasn't working right...

around noon ran to the big city for parts and supply's get back throw some 90 wt at the gear changer thing, run to the gravel pit to pick up some dirt for some folks, run home, grab my saws and I'm off to start the latest logging endeavor...

hack and swear for a few hours, its hot by the way...

Run home get the dumper truck, and off to deliver that load of dirt, its 10:12 now, I've had a glass of water and taken my boots off...

Tomorrow looks to be a repeat...


----------



## catbuster

Well, my 336 Cat arrived today...

I just wish I could say I wanted it to show up. The Cat dealer pulled the rug out from me on the lease of the 568GF and I get a 336. Not that it's a bad hoe, but it just doesn't have the weight or swing torque behind it like the other one. It also doesn't currently have a thumb, but that will be remedied Monday. 

I suppose the lesson learned here is don't let the dealer write a clause into the deal saying they can cancel...


----------



## 2dogs

Ugh, marooned. The Dodge went in yesterday early for brakes and I still don't have it back. The shop had to order calipers along with rotors and the normal brake parts. I really should replace the ball joints and track bar but that will come next month. And then front tires.

I really need to meet the dozer at 07:00 tomorrow (after a two hour drive).


----------



## mdavlee

2dogs said:


> Ugh, marooned. The Dodge went in yesterday early for brakes and I still don't have it back. The shop had to order calipers along with rotors and the normal brake parts. I really should replace the ball joints and track bar but that will come next month. And then front tires.
> 
> I really need to meet the dozer at 07:00 tomorrow (after a two hour drive).


I know your pain. I ordered tires yesterday for mine. The right front is probably ready for ball joints. The outer edge of the tire is wore more than the inside. Brakes have lasted to 91k now and are making a little noise. There's about 1/3 of the pad left so I'm happy with that part. Just wish the tires were a little cheaper


----------



## HuskStihl

My wife warps brake rotors. Frequently.


----------



## 2dogs

Well the brakes will be over $1K when they finish. Plus it needs a tie rod end muy pronto. Plus plus it needs yet another track bar (under warranty) and 4 ball joints (under warranty).

You guys east of the Sierras have it easy with your flat ground. Australians have it even easier, there are no rocks in the entire country (except for that one big one, ya know, it's kinda reddish) and their trees are all tiny.


----------



## mdavlee

2dogs said:


> Well the brakes will be over $1K when they finish. Plus it needs a tie rod end muy pronto. Plus plus it needs yet another track bar (under warranty) and 4 ball joints (under warranty).
> 
> You guys east of the Sierras have it easy with your flat ground. Australians have it even easier, there are no rocks in the entire country (except for that one big one, ya know, it's kinda reddish) and their trees are all tiny.


A lot of the roads I travel besides intrastate are like the redwood hwy. Lots of curves and up and downs. I usually got 40k to a set of brakes before this one and the exhaust brake. I got 2 tie rods on a recall free about 8k ago. Ball joints won't be a warranty part.


----------



## 2dogs

The tire shop guy told me they were a warranty part. I hope he is right. At least they cheap if not.


----------



## 1270d

Don't get cheap ball joints


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> My wife warps brake rotors. Frequently.


Mine too. Pads every year. She gets mad at me when I point that out.


----------



## bitzer

Man 2dogs! Brakes are easy and will save you at least 500 of that thousand. After wrenching on my skidder all day the last thing I wanna do is wrench on the truck though. It needs a front u-joint, wheel bearing, and rear leaf springs.


----------



## mdavlee

2dogs said:


> The tire shop guy told me they were a warranty part. I hope he is right. At least they cheap if not.


I've not found any cheap front end parts. I did buy Lazar Smith track bar bushings at 47k. The stock ones were shot already and we're clunking. The ball joints are a tough decision for mine. The moog were getting a bad rap for being oversized and not fitting. There's Dynatrac and Carli but at $650-800 a set I'm not sure on that. XRF have a million mile warranty but the labor to change them or time isn't fun.


----------



## 1270d

The auto parts store here pushes moog and some other cheapo brand ball joints. We re lucky to get a couple years out of moogs and the last set of the cheaper ones lasted about 2000 miles. 

They have a replacement warranty but I sure am not going to put their crap product back in if I have to do all the labor.

Next time it will be factory parts only.

All of our trucks are 99 to 06 super duty fords


----------



## mdavlee

I used moog in other trucks. A lot of people on CF and DTR are having bad luck with them and then another set are loose in the socket after the moog. Makes me leary of using them for around $300 a set. I may check with the dealer for stock replacement ones.


----------



## northmanlogging

Grease!
its cheap! every oil change or so...


----------



## mdavlee

northmanlogging said:


> Grease!
> its cheap! every oil change or so...


If they ball joints had fittings I'd grease them. The originals don't so until I replace them there's no good way to grease them without risking tearing the boot.


----------



## 2dogs

Ack, I have a summer cold. Today is one of those days when it is foggy and hot.It is very humid and my nose is running like a faucet. Benadryl doesn't help, neither does the stuff I have been blasting up my nose. On the plus side I have very little appetite, I went to the Lions club lunch meeting and paid $17.00 and only ate a piece of salmon. Lettuce tastes horrible. Even Brussells sprouts aren't tasting good!


----------



## HuskStihl

Wife's been out of town for a week with the two older kids, leaving me with the six year old twins. Of course, the night she leaves, one wakes me up at 1 am with "daddy, I threw up". I was so sleepy, I actually said "in the toilet?" Of course not, but pretty much everywhere else. She's coming back tomorrow, and the boys are finally afebrile and looking normal.
On a proud note, this is what happens if you try to take the puck wide on my daughter.......


----------



## 1270d

2dogs said:


> only ate a piece of salmon. Lettuce tastes horrible. Even Brussells sprouts aren't tasting good!



Sounds like your taste buds are working properly. Salmon is horrible


----------



## 2dogs

HuskStihl said:


> Wife's been out of town for a week with the two older kids, leaving me with the six year old twins. Of course, the night she leaves, one wakes me up at 1 am with "daddy, I threw up". I was so sleepy, I actually said "in the toilet?" Of course not, but pretty much everywhere else. She's coming back tomorrow, and the boys are finally afebrile and looking normal.
> On a proud note, this is what happens if you try to take the puck wide on my daughter.......



Was that the Hockey Hockley team or whatever?


----------



## HuskStihl

2dogs said:


> Was that the Hockey Hockley team or whatever?


More of the "whatever" than the former


----------



## 2dogs

HuskStihl said:


> More of the "whatever" than the former



Sympathy for the Devil. I'm impressed.


----------



## northmanlogging

1270d said:


> Sounds like your taste buds are working properly. Salmon is horrible


Ok I ****ing hate seafud, but I'll eat pounds of salmon. if'n you think its terrible there is something wrong with either yerself or who's cooking it..


----------



## Gologit

1270d said:


> Sounds like your taste buds are working properly. Salmon is horrible


 
Fresh caught ocean salmon is a treat. But brussels sprouts? Nobody really eats those voluntarily, do they? I mean nobody over the age of five.


----------



## northmanlogging

Um... they aren't too bad if you broil them and put enough butter and salt on em...

Used to hate em. But then the Wifey learnt to cook and stuff... now I'm fat...


----------



## 2dogs

northmanlogging said:


> Ok I ****ing hate seafud, but I'll eat pounds of salmon. if'n you think its terrible there is something wrong with either yerself or who's cooking it..


Of course you love salmon, it's those grizzly bear genes. I like my salmon cooked or smoked. I have never been able to stand in a river and catch them out of the air.

Here is a video of Northy and the family.


----------



## northmanlogging

Its all in the neck... and unusually large teeth...


----------



## 2dogs

When did you get a neck?


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Of course you love salmon, it's those grizzly bear genes. I like my salmon cooked or smoked. I have never been able to stand in a river and catch them out of the air.


 Get some hay hooks...the ones with the long shanks.


----------



## bitzer

My wife cooks brussel sprouts with bacon. Frickn awesome.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> My wife cooks brussel sprouts with bacon. Frickn awesome.


 
That's a darn cruel thing to do to a piece of bacon.


----------



## northmanlogging

2dogs said:


> When did you get a neck?


ok what I meant was the meaty bit between the bottom of my skull and the tops of my arms


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> That's a darn cruel thing to do to a piece of bacon.


Bacon and choclate chip cookies are where its at. I've put bacon into just about everything at one time or another.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Bacon and choclate chip cookies are where its at. I've put bacon into just about everything at one time or another.


 Isn't bacon one of the basic food groups? Chocolate chip cookies, especially home made with walnuts in them should be too.


----------



## bitzer

I request bacon at every meal for fathers day.


----------



## Gypo Logger

Speaking of bacon, here's the best to buy. Product of Canada, but why do they call it "Presidents Choice?"
Does Obama have his fingers in our bacon??


----------



## Gypo Logger

A little bit of trivia about bacon. During the Klondike gold rush in Dawson, the steam wheelers came in with miners, Chechako's , sporting women ,woodcutters,cons, gamblers, booze and groceries and just about anything else you had the gold to buy. Bacon was stacked up like cordwood on the shore of the Yukon river. The North West Mounted Police kept strict order, so there was only petty crime with very few murders.


----------



## rwoods

Gypo, you mean you don't eat Canadian bacon? 





Ron


----------



## bitzer

I could go for some bacon stacked up like cordwood.

I was in Skagway and Dyea when I was a kid. I saw the chilkoot trail and walked a little of the dead horse trail. Either way woulda sucked. The weight in food and supplies they had to bring in by law had them making several hikes up and back.


----------



## northmanlogging

Moved the skidder yesterday, new sight has a bit of an up hill driveway, enough so the Dumper truck started spinning its tires a bit. But we're far enough in to be able to unload the skidder and get on with the day. The war Dept hops out and chocks the rear wheels, and I have her switch places with me and hold the brakes, since the trucks park brakes is really just for show, and only works on the rear axle anyway I figure this should work out OK...

Well I get the binders off and fire up the Missus, toss her in reverse and let the clutch out...

The whole gods damned works slips down hill a bit.. like a foot or so. But is stops so I think **** it she'll hold, look in the mirror to see how the wifey is handling this... she's clearly not, so I try again.

This time every thing just keeps on sliding down hill I stopped the skidder at first but that didn't do any good, so quick like a bunny I figure if I can get the skidder backed far enough to tilt the trailer maybe just maybe we won't slide off into the main road and get T-boned... It worked with about 3 feet to spare. Probably one of the dumbest things I've pulled off in quite some time.

Think maybe I'll invest in a few more chocks, and chock the trailer and the truck next time.


----------



## northmanlogging

To be clear this Driveway isn't all that steep, maybe a 2% grade, just all loose gravel


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> To be clear this Driveway isn't all that steep, maybe a 2% grade, just all loose gravel


you mean loose marbles .......


----------



## northmanlogging

Yet another Crummy day in a crummy week...




Smoked the torque converter in the ole crummy, won't mention the rest of the week...


----------



## 2dogs

Heading to the Sierras tomorrow so you probably won't hear from me for a few days. I'm curious to see if we will have bear problems again this year. I hope not since there is only a little CO2 for the paint ball gun. The crummy needs some front end work but that will have to wait now. The road in is 2 1/2 miles of rocks and ruts. Someone else will be doing all the cooking too. Man, I love that part.

Gotta remember to stop and buy slugs for the shotgun. I hope I can find so lead slugs cause I'm guessing the lead free slugs are $25.00 a box of five or more. Maybe double that.


----------



## northmanlogging

So what yer say'n is that if I happen to be in the Sierra's in the next couple of days and smell BACON! that I should just keep walk'n?


----------



## Eccentric

Don't shoot Northy................even on accident.


----------



## HuskStihl

Eccentric said:


> Don't shoot Northy................even on accident.


It'll just make him mad!


----------



## 1270d

sounds like northman and slowp had a showdown


----------



## BeatCJ

I was working near Anatone, WA, on the banks of the Snake. We were digging up rotted cottonwood hot spots, so after the first day I swapped to a "clean" shirt. I now have two armfuls of poison oak blisters. I'm pretty sure I didn't see any there, and it's all in spots that should have been covered by my sleeves. I washed all my nomex in degreaser, three trips through the washer each.
I hate Poison Oak. Stuck to the sheets last night.


----------



## HuskStihl

I didn't like that because of u'r suffering, just cause I've been there plenty!


----------



## Metals406

I don't ever want to be anywhere near poison oak.


----------



## atpchas

BeatCJ said:


> I was working near Anatone, WA, on the banks of the Snake. We were digging up rotted cottonwood hot spots, so after the first day I swapped to a "clean" shirt. I now have two armfuls of poison oak blisters. I'm pretty sure I didn't see any there, and it's all in spots that should have been covered by my sleeves. I washed all my nomex in degreaser, three trips through the washer each.
> I hate Poison Oak. Stuck to the sheets last night.


I'm fortunate to be almost immune to PO but my wife isn't as lucky. She swears by this: slather on Tecnu, then wrap the affected extremity (this method would be sketchy if the PO is on your head) with Saran wrap to keep the Tecnu on your skin instead of on the sheets. I'd say it's worth a shot.


----------



## Gologit

atpchas said:


> I'm fortunate to be almost immune to PO but my wife isn't as lucky. She swears by this: slather on Tecnu, then wrap the affected extremity (this method would be sketchy if the PO is on your head) with Saran wrap to keep the Tecnu on your skin instead of on the sheets. I'd say it's worth a shot.


 If we all did that at the next GTG and then went to town for supper looking like that it might make the front page of the Napa newspaper.


----------



## BeatCJ

Oh, I have had pretty good luck treating it, when I realize I have been exposed. Any of the quality waterless hand cleaners slathered on and worked in will really reduce the effects. I think the citrus based may work better, and the granulated is good, too. I have a tube in my hunting pack, and if I'm in a bad area, will slather things after I pee in the woods, just in case.

I have read that Mean Green brand works especially well, but I've never tried it myself. It's simply an irritant oil, (an especially powerful one) so it goes to reason that an effective degreaser is the best way to rid yourself of it. I've even had luck in minimizing the negative outcome after I have realized I'm getting it, but it really works out to remove the oil as soon as possible after exposure.

My grandparents in South Western Oregon is badly infested, I've been getting it on a regular basis since I was a little kid, with the failure to listen to good advice that is common in kids. I think Poison Oak is one of the reasons I have learned to listen relatively well.


----------



## madhatte

BeatCJ said:


> I was working near Anatone, WA, on the banks of the Snake. We were digging up rotted cottonwood hot spots, so after the first day I swapped to a "clean" shirt. I now have two armfuls of poison oak blisters. I'm pretty sure I didn't see any there, and it's all in spots that should have been covered by my sleeves. I washed all my nomex in degreaser, three trips through the washer each.
> I hate Poison Oak. Stuck to the sheets last night.



I've seen poison-ivy aplenty near there. It could be that you were on the lookout for the wrong plant. Much sympathy, though. I am a urushiol magnet.


----------



## BeatCJ

madhatte said:


> I've seen poison-ivy aplenty near there. It could be that you were on the lookout for the wrong plant. Much sympathy, though. I am a urushiol magnet.



That would make sense. Down in the bottom of the draw, around a flowing creek. Thick with cottonwood and other brush, grape vines even.


----------



## Eccentric

madhatte said:


> I've seen poison-ivy aplenty near there. It could be that you were on the lookout for the wrong plant. Much sympathy, though. I am a urushiol magnet.



Did you get PO from the Napa GTG last year?


----------



## madhatte

BeatCJ said:


> That would make sense. Down in the bottom of the draw, around a flowing creek. Thick with cottonwood and other brush, grape vines even.



That's exactly the kind of place where I've seen it in eastern WA, specifically along the Snake and the Palouse. 



Eccentric said:


> Did you get PO from the Napa GTG last year?



Of course I did. Price of doin' business. I've gotten it twice here so far this year and haven't even seen it in any of the places where I've been working. That stuff loves me.


----------



## BeatCJ

madhatte said:


> That stuff loves me.



Me too. I'm frequently the only person around that gets it. I have a long history of cross contamination, getting it from my pack, from shirts that I haven't worn for a year. I think I have also gotten it from my dogs, and bootlaces. A few years ago, I had it on my face so bad I couldn't put contact lenses in for two weeks because my eyelids were so puffy.


----------



## madhatte

BOOT LACES. I am pretty sure that's where I got it from this January. I wore a pair of boots I last wore in NorCal in Nov and got the poison oaks then, and got two stripes across my forearms in Jan. Couldn't for the life of me figure another way or time I could have come in contact with that plant at the time.


----------



## BeatCJ

A few years ago I was at the Broughton Mills Fire, and the IC made everyone change out their laces as part of the demobe process. If you didn't take yours out and drop them into their trash can, you didn't get a signature from Supply.


----------



## Metals406

BeatCJ said:


> A few years ago I was at the Broughton Mills Fire, and the IC made everyone change out their laces as part of the demobe process. If you didn't take yours out and drop them into their trash can, you didn't get a signature from Supply.


That's super weird!! But understandable if PO was around.


----------



## northmanlogging

just about ate it today,

We was pulling a big cotton wood over, had it rigged to swing more than pull

well she sat back... hard...

So I motion for the skidder to drive forward just a bit

He thought just a bit meant get on it and over she'll go... pulled the ****ing thing over sideways over me, and then she continued to back sit gets hung up in the very last tree before a main road and power lines... The one I'm trying to hide under...

But it don't stop there the son of ***** keeps pulling

I got **** raining down all around me screaming for the dumb ass to stop... finally the wifey ran out in front of him to stop him...

So here we are, about 30' from a major road, not a highway but close, this kitty is tipped into this other back leaning sob... its aimed straight at the land owners power lines... My saw is firmly stuck in place, ***** falling all the time...

But we have a skidder... and she's already rigged just not in the correct direction...

Flash forward about 13 hours of 128 deg weather and a pissed off gyppo...

Run the swing line through a block up the hill, and through my 200' hunk of cable, back to the skidder, that has just enough line on to park me right under the power lines....

Block the road off as best we can and pull like an angry mule. Wide open that ole Deere is scary...

Unbelievably it comes over, pivots on whats left of the stump, nothing falls into the road, and she tips off into a couple of apple trees, but no major damage.
this is of course where I start to panic... hands start shakin... sweat is pouring (its a family trait panic when every thing is ok), buts she's down, and no one hurt or killed. (maybe my luck ain't so bad after all...)


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> just about ate it today,
> 
> We was pulling a big cotton wood over, had it rigged to swing more than pull
> 
> well she sat back... hard...
> 
> So I motion for the skidder to drive forward just a bit
> 
> He thought just a bit meant get on it and over she'll go... pulled the ****ing thing over sideways over me, and then she continued to back sit gets hung up in the very last tree before a main road and power lines... The one I'm trying to hide under...
> 
> But it don't stop there the son of ***** keeps pulling
> 
> I got **** raining down all around me screaming for the dumb ass to stop... finally the wifey ran out in front of him to stop him...
> 
> So here we are, about 30' from a major road, not a highway but close, this **** is tipped into this other back leaning sob... its aimed straight at the land owners power lines... My saw is firmly stuck in place, ***** falling all the time...
> 
> But we have a skidder... and she's already rigged just not in the correct direction...
> 
> Flash forward about 13 hours of 128 deg weather and a pissed off gyppo...
> 
> Run the swing line through a block up the hill, and through my 200' hunk of cable, back to the skidder, that has just enough line on to park me right under the power lines....
> 
> Block the road off as best we can and pull like an angry mule. Wide open that ole Deere is scary...
> 
> Unbelievably it comes over, pivots on whats left of the stump, nothing falls into the road, and she tips off into a couple of apple trees, but no major damage.
> this is of course where I start to panic... hands start shakin... sweat is pouring (its a family trait panic when every thing is ok), buts she's down, and no one hurt or killed. (maybe my luck ain't so bad after all...)


That is the opposite of what is good.

Glad you're okay brother!!!


----------



## 1270d

That's the best time to panic if you,re going to.


----------



## 2dogs

Santa Cruz county is poison oak central. I think God invented it right here to punish future hippies for moving here.

Urushiol is an old Indian word for 'itches like hell". Any soap and water will help but one of the many PO soaps work best IF you follow the directions. Tecnu, Maria's, Zanfel all work well if you scrub twice. The first time try to use minimal water and the second time scrub for 2 minutes or more, then rinse. I would not bandage any soap to my body since blisters may be the result. Like you all said it is all the various other things that are contaminated that cause the problems. Clothes, dogs, and tool handles seem to be the worst. I won't even go into how dangerous burning PO is. The worst case I ever had was from a small wildland fire a few days before the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake.

The help deal with the rash and the itching I recommend Benadryl and Ibuprofen taken together. Of course Predizone really helps but I HATE that stuff. I can't sleep at night and during the day I turn into the Incredible Hulk.

Pre-exposure lotions work well too. Even regular girly lotion applied to arms, neck, and face will help seal your skin and reduce the amount of oil that soaks into your skin. I carry pre-exposure towelettes in the door pocket of my truck. Heck, even sunscreen helps.

Don't hesitate going to the doc (HS do you make house calls to Warshington) if PO gets into your lungs or eyes or groin.

Then you could take the Northman route and grow 2 inches of hair everywhere. No poison oak can get through to his skin that way. Just be careful during hunting season.

Oops forgot to add... use a calamine product if a rash starts but again read the instructions. Don't over do the calamine or it will add to your misery. Same goes for hot water, you can cook yourself. Then use lotion to help rehydrate your skin.


----------



## 2dogs

northmanlogging said:


> So what yer say'n is that if I happen to be in the Sierra's in the next couple of days and smell BACON! that I should just keep walk'n?


 Whoa! If you ever travel to the Sierras let me know first so I can create a temporary no shoot zone. I let the local university know not to try to take any tissue samples for DNA testing either. Maybe you could just leave a couple pounds of hair on the barb wire fence.


----------



## 2dogs

Going to another divorce court session tomorrow. Wish me luck though the future ex is being reasonable ( I signed our rental over to her some time back).


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Going to another divorce court session tomorrow. Wish me luck though the future ex is being reasonable ( I signed our rental over to her some time back).


 Good luck.


----------



## 2dogs

Thanks Bob.


----------



## northmanlogging

northmanlogging said:


> just about ate it today,
> 
> We was pulling a big cotton wood over, had it rigged to swing more than pull
> 
> well she sat back... hard...
> 
> So I motion for the skidder to drive forward just a bit
> 
> He thought just a bit meant get on it and over she'll go... pulled the ****ing thing over sideways over me, and then she continued to back sit gets hung up in the very last tree before a main road and power lines... The one I'm trying to hide under...
> 
> But it don't stop there the son of ***** keeps pulling
> 
> I got **** raining down all around me screaming for the dumb ass to stop... finally the wifey ran out in front of him to stop him...
> 
> So here we are, about 30' from a major road, not a highway but close, this **** is tipped into this other back leaning sob... its aimed straight at the land owners power lines... My saw is firmly stuck in place, ***** falling all the time...
> 
> But we have a skidder... and she's already rigged just not in the correct direction...
> 
> Flash forward about 13 hours of 128 deg weather and a pissed off gyppo...
> 
> Run the swing line through a block up the hill, and through my 200' hunk of cable, back to the skidder, that has just enough line on to park me right under the power lines....
> 
> Block the road off as best we can and pull like an angry mule. Wide open that ole Deere is scary...
> 
> Unbelievably it comes over, pivots on whats left of the stump, nothing falls into the road, and she tips off into a couple of apple trees, but no major damage.
> this is of course where I start to panic... hands start shakin... sweat is pouring (its a family trait panic when every thing is ok), buts she's down, and no one hurt or killed. (maybe my luck ain't so bad after all...)



The vid that goes with this...



Good luck 2dogs...


----------



## Metals406

2dogs said:


> Going to another divorce court session tomorrow. Wish me luck though the future ex is being reasonable ( I signed our rental over to her some time back).


How did it go?


----------



## Gypo Logger

Divorce builds character.


----------



## Metals406

Gypo Logger said:


> Divorce builds debt.



Phyxed


----------



## Gypo Logger

Metals406 said:


> Phyxed


Very true, but you can put no price upon freedom nor independance.


----------



## hseII

Gypo Logger said:


> Very true, but you can put no price upon freedom nor independance.


Or Peace


----------



## Gypo Logger

hseII said:


> Or Peace


Yes, let us not forget piece, which is mostly why we were there in the first place. Lol


----------



## 2dogs

Metals406 said:


> Phyxed


It has already cost me $700,000.00.


----------



## hseII

Gypo Logger said:


> Yes, let us not forget piece, which is mostly why we were there in the first place. Lol


Wrong Piece! [emoji13][emoji13]


----------



## Metals406

2dogs said:


> It has already cost me $700,000.00.


Can't like that. . . That's a buttload of money.


----------



## catbuster

For the idiots who pull perfectly harmless spark arrestors in chainsaw and brush saw mufflers:

A person down the hill from our crew lit 13 acres on fire. We're still mopping it up and will be charging him back $11,000. I should charge him more because ai lost a half-day. The cause? An ember from a saw muffler. 

Don't be stupid. If they get dirty and clogged, clean them. It's that easy.


----------



## madhatte

I got the damn poison oaks again. It's in some more-unpleasant-than-usual places.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> I got the damn poison oaks again. It's in some more-unpleasant-than-usual places.


Oi vey! Get that stuff off before it gets ya.


----------



## madhatte

Warshed, helped, not enough.


----------



## Eccentric

Can't like that Nate...


----------



## 67L36Driver

madhatte said:


> I got the damn poison oaks again. It's in some more-unpleasant-than-usual places.



Wee weed on the job site did we?


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> I got the damn poison oaks again. It's in some more-unpleasant-than-usual places.



Don't scratch!


----------



## madhatte

I wish the stuff gave a warning of some sort, like a rattlesnake.


----------



## atpchas

madhatte said:


> I got the damn poison oaks again. It's in some more-unpleasant-than-usual places.


Hope you don't itch for too long. Thankfully, PO doesn't bother me much. Below is the next phase of our meadow reclamation project. The wall of green (6-7 feet tall) in the foreground is your nemesis. The FS560 mows it down nicely.


----------



## madhatte

atpchas said:


> Hope you don't itch for too long. Thankfully, PO doesn't bother me much. Below is the next phase of our meadow reclamation project. The wall of green (6-7 feet tall) in the foreground is your nemesis. The FS560 mows it down nicely.
> View attachment 437818



Oh, man, just the sight of that makes me itch. I'd need to be in a full hazmat suit to cut in there.


----------



## BeatCJ

atpchas said:


> Hope you don't itch for too long. Thankfully, PO doesn't bother me much. Below is the next phase of our meadow reclamation project. The wall of green (6-7 feet tall) in the foreground is your nemesis. The FS560 mows it down nicely.
> View attachment 437818


Kill it, kill it all!

Then 2,4 D the ground it lived in....


----------



## atpchas

BeatCJ said:


> Kill it, kill it all!
> 
> Then 2,4 D the ground it lived in....


Yeah, you got that right. Knocking it down is just the beginning. Left alone, it would look almost as bad after a couple years.


----------



## Metals406

And I complain about Knapweed.


----------



## BeatCJ

I've been working on that, too.


----------



## 2dogs

I really hate humid days like today. That is all, carry on.


----------



## tramp bushler

Why do u hate humid days ? What constitutes a humid day where you are ?


----------



## HuskStihl

2dogs said:


> I really hate humid days like today. That is all, carry on.


Humidity sounds terrible. I'm glad I live in Houston, so I never have to deal with it


----------



## madhatte

I see what you did there.


----------



## 2dogs

There was a breeze today. It blew the humidity away somewhere. I don't know where and I don't care where. It's just gone.


----------



## 2dogs

Dry bulb 78, wet 72, 25' elevation. This is my lower tolerance limit.


----------



## catbuster

Only a tender driver could manage to find a spot soft enough to have his rig go off an edge at the anchor point of a small fire. And being a very small fire (5 acres), we had no dozer, so said tender operator had to ask politely to use the landowner's large tractor plus the Squad Wagon to unstick himself. 'Twas embarassing


----------



## northmanlogging

Just about got jousted out of the skidder seat... pushing brush and a top sneaked in over the hood, got me in the teeth...


----------



## madhatte

Dang, man. That's a near-miss.


----------



## catbuster

One of my operators up in PA broke a pin on a hoe today. Anyone know the bucket pin size on a Caterpillar 365BL? Mind you, the hoe weighs 68 metric tons. I'm not completely sure, but I think it's in the 3-4" range. That's a big ****ing pin. 

How do you break that loading trucks? I'm pissed off, not that the replacement part is $200, but that we brought in the big hoe to expedite some of our bigger jobs and it's OOB in its' first week. So now I'm paying for a $300,000 dollar machine and losing productivity because I have to run a 349 in its' place.


----------



## northmanlogging

It's November in the PNW, its pissing down rain, and threatening wind, so I called off regular scheduled logging for today.

My climber guy is dealing with mersa right now and wanted to get a tree down, I figure easy money...

Usual arborist junk, leaner alder, covered in ivy, Toss a line in er since its leaning over the house, on a steep hill. Line goes in no prob, start working on tying the line off, I'm knee deep in mud on a side hill.

This is when the ground bees decide to make their presence known... Took 2 in the face.

They chased us all the way back to the crummy...

My mac T is still there along with my bull line... its november damnit...


----------



## treeslayer2003

i hate them things........they took mah sammich from me yesterday. weren't very good, but they wanted it wore than i did.


----------



## madjoe

It rained all day here. I had to continue to sit at home. I hate that. I wanna work.


----------



## 2dogs

northmanlogging said:


> It's November in the PNW, its pissing down rain, and threatening wind, so I called off regular scheduled logging for today.
> 
> My climber guy is dealing with mersa right now and wanted to get a tree down, I figure easy money...
> 
> Usual arborist junk, leaner alder, covered in ivy, Toss a line in er since its leaning over the house, on a steep hill. Line goes in no prob, start working on tying the line off, I'm knee deep in mud on a side hill.
> 
> This is when the ground bees decide to make their presence known... Took 2 in the face.
> 
> They chased us all the way back to the crummy...
> 
> My mac T is still there along with my bull line... its november damnit...



Stop raiding their hives.


----------



## northmanlogging

buts Is iss hungers... so sweet and crunchy..


----------



## Frank Savage

Spent the weekend on small thinning/beetle prevention job in a national park, above the inversion, which was ultra nice. A friend of mine has an old house/setlement there, which has the right to get wood for repairs and firewood from the forests around-goes some 100 years back this way, so some 10 cords were to make along the way. 30 deg slope, spruce 6"-14", 80-130+ ft tall-quite damn too much for the location and DBH, doghaired stand and snaggy tops at places. Some tricky snags around the house too. So far, so good and kinda relax.
A bunch of our friends were assigned to carry the firewood outta the stand, as part of the stand was directly adjacent to the house-the sawlogs from the rest will go out by horses in the winter. Most of them were people who I actualy quite liked-till this weekend. Those exemplary a$$holes don´t realize and care what snaggy top means, how far it can reach, walking in the lay of a tree I´m just wedging over, two minutes after I told them I´m gona lay a tree right there and that it will sure bring down a shover of branches. "It is thin, so it is small and no problem or danger outta it". Watchers silently sneaking 5 ft behind me right into place where I´m gonna swing the saw on escape, bitching about "give ´er a whack, or better get outta there, we will push it over by hands, what th f**k with it" while I´m tenderly tapping a wegde trying my best not to stumpbreak a 100ft, 7" DBH matchstick with sunflower-like, snow-broken crown leaning 8 ft backwards, so flimsy I could get two visible wawes in the stem. One of thee folks grabbing the friends saw, as he is "experienced" with it (how he didn´t get killed or didn´t kill someone in past years he was helping him is beyond me) and making one helluva mess of high stumps with cuts sloping in all directions. Cross-sloping undercut with sloping backcut done from the downhill side was very new for me, I must admit, as well as attempt on underbucking a hanger with springpoled branches still uncut from the bottom part... Kids (4-7 years) were the least trouble, because somehow a look and wawing a hand was pretty enought to direct them to safe place. Even when they took posession of my axe and used it somewhere in the brush for a day, so I had to borrow one-mine was nicely placed along other upon final tool recolection, with edge OK.
Pretty mixed feelings-given the scenery and weather, nice two days with a saw in the mountains, which I missed for a long time-but I think I´ve lost some friends, since I can´t have any respect for them and several of them I can´t probably stand anymore...


----------



## SliverPicker

10-16 inches of snow with wind gusts to 45 mph coming tomorrow afternoon. 

I've been working in snow for three weeks already, but now I think winter is really here.


----------



## madjoe

I still hate rain.


----------



## northmanlogging

Then you really don't want to move here


----------



## madjoe

I have heard rain is common out there.
I guess I'll just stay here in the east with (sorta) dry weather and small timber lol


----------



## coltont

If you don't like working in the rain you might want to reconsider being a logger. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## madjoe

coltont said:


> If you don't like working in the rain you might want to reconsider being a logger.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Where im from loggers rarely work in the rain (unless its been being done wrong in my neck of the woods ever since I can remember). Seems like here all the fallers and equipment ops came in when it was raining. Besides when I say I hate the rain that doesn't mean I'm not willing to work in it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

mud........


----------



## Gologit

Wet feet.


----------



## madjoe

Gologit said:


> Wet feet.


And boots that didn't dry good. Then wet feet instantly the next morning.


----------



## Samlock

Putting some mild inconvenience aside, the rain isn't usually doing you as a cutter much harm. The wind is. As well as the heat. That probably won't make you appreciate the rain any more than you do now, but it'll make you hate the other elements more.


----------



## Metals406

Wind is a deal breaker for me.

Call me a *****, tramp me, I don't care.

It's compound leverage. If a top sways 3' either direction, the forces on the stump are massive!

I don't play them odds, they're worse than Vegas.


----------



## 2dogs

I hate mild weather.


----------



## catbuster

The rain is almost a non-issue. Wind is a no-go falling. I hate the heat, too.


----------



## Skeans

Rain isn't an issue hand cutting but those 25mph gusts will get you especially down in a gulley where the wind can switch real easy and fast.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## slowp

madjoe said:


> And boots that didn't dry good. Then wet feet instantly the next morning.



There are these things called boot dryers that work quite well. I bought a peer brand I 1984 and it still works well.


----------



## madjoe

slowp said:


> There are these things called boot dryers that work quite well. I bought a peer brand I 1984 and it still works well.


So that's what them things are called. I've seen them new fangled lectric things but didn't have now power at the cabin to try it so I figured I'd just keep on settin em by the wood stove lol [emoji23] [emoji4] 

Seriously though i've had lots of jobs outdoors and had wet boots quite a bit and for some reason I never got one. My dad swears by his. Maybe I'll get one if I can ever get a paycheck.


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## Skeans

madjoe said:


> So that's what them things are called. I've seen them new fangled lectric things but didn't have now power at the cabin to try it so I figured I'd just keep on settin em by the wood stove lol [emoji23] [emoji4]
> 
> Seriously though i've had lots of jobs outdoors and had wet boots quite a bit and for some reason I never got one. My dad swears by his. Maybe I'll get one if I can ever get a paycheck.


They are well worth the money I spray my boots off daily and instantly throw them on the dryer.

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## Metals406

Skeans said:


> They are well worth the money I spray my boots off daily and instantly throw them on the dryer.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Same


----------



## bitzer

Rain, sleet, freezing rain, snow, and evrything inbetween qualifies as cutting weather. No good for skiddn tho. I quit when its gusting a regular 30mph. In some oak stands where everything is leaning hard the wind is a non issue. Other than the widow makers shakin out. Personally I like cutting when theres a little weather. Keeps things movin.


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## coltont

Steady wind and gusty wind are to different animals to cut in.

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## coltont

I love limbing out beech in the rain. The bar oil that slings off the bar onto the log makes it like walking on a greased pole. My skidder operator watched me slip and fall off the same log 3 times today. I love logging.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

coltont said:


> I love limbing out beech in the rain. The bar oil that slings off the bar onto the log makes it like walking on a greased pole. My skidder operator watched me slip and fall off the same log 3 times today. I love logging.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Sounds like it's time for some caulk boots.

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## coltont

I've got a club foot. I have a pair. They don't agree with my foot. I love how they work they just turn my ankle to junk in about 6 hours. 

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## treeslayer2003

i could only wear um a few hours a week. on and off equipment to much.


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## bitzer

coltont said:


> I've got a club foot. I have a pair. They don't agree with my foot. I love how they work they just turn my ankle to junk in about 6 hours.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


You probably just need some wescos. I know i do.


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## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> i could only wear um a few hours a week. on and off equipment to much.


Re-tractable corks: a dream of mine.


----------



## coltont

I need more monies. They are allot of monies. But I'm sure that are worth it if they fit just rite.

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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> You probably just need some wescos. I know i do.


I wear Wesco and they are a great boot but I've been told guys that need a boot for a bad foot go to Kulligan's in Chehalis, Wa.

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## bitzer

coltont said:


> I need more monies. They are allot of monies. But I'm sure that are worth it if they fit just rite.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Same here.


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> I wear Wesco and they are a great boot but I've been told guys that need a boot for a bad foot go to Kulligan's in Chehalis, Wa.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


I'm sure theres something out there for everyone. You just gotta pay. Now we just need to find a hat that fits treeslayers special head. How much does wesco charge to rebuild?


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## northmanlogging

Someone get me a tig torch and some .032 aluminium, I could have one made in 2 days, custom fit tin hats... not osha approved in any way shape or form


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## treeslayer2003

i would love wescos..........with them retractable corks of course lol. i read they are leather lined, i bet that improves fit greatly.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> I'm sure theres something out there for everyone. You just gotta pay. Now we just need to find a hat that fits treeslayers special head. How much does wesco charge to rebuild?


Mine haven't been rebuilt I need to take them in one day to have them rebuilt. http://www.wescoboots.com/wesco/info.asp
Kulien is nutty expensive but they are a grade or two above Wesco or Nick's is what I've been told, Maybe SlowP or someone that's had a set built by them could tell you more.

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## Metals406

Skeans said:


> Mine haven't been rebuilt I need to take them in one day to have them rebuilt. http://www.wescoboots.com/wesco/info.asp
> Kulien is nutty expensive but they are a grade or two above Wesco or Nick's is what I've been told, Maybe SlowP or someone that's had a set built by them could tell you more.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Cody T. paid Rediculous money for his Kulien's, and said he wouldn't do it again.


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## catbuster

I lost one of my best employees today. He told me that he would be taking a well control job and be a world traveler. That was the job I always wanted in engineering school. We fought fires together, saved each other's bacon on multiple occasions and... ****, I hired him right out of school. 

In the words Neil Peart wrote in Rush's last album... "All that you can do is wish them well."


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## HuskStihl

catbuster said:


> I lost one of my best employees today. He told me that he would be taking a well control job and be a world traveler. That was the job I always wanted in engineering school. We fought fires together, saved each other's bacon on multiple occasions and... ****, I hired him right out of school.
> 
> In the words Neil Peart wrote in Rush's last album... "All that you can do is wish them well."


Should have told him "we are the priests of the temple of syrinx"


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## catbuster

HuskStihl said:


> Should have told him "we are the priests of the temple of syrinx"



I told him I'd test for the echo the void his managerial skills left in my company. He said I was faithless in myself. But that's faith enough for me. Oh well, we can only go the way the wind blows on this cold and barren shore we call life. I guess I might as well rise, and put on my bravest face.

A lot of guys aren't big fans of Snakes and Arrows as an album. It's my favorite Rush record. Oh well... I also think Cygnus X-1 is their best 1970s long song. But that's just me.


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## northmanlogging

passed a chip truck yesterday in Ye Ole Dumper Truck... he must have been doing 70, coupled with my top speed of around 55, add all the rust, damned neer blew the roof off the poor thing... I'll have to get creative with the welding or something, it looks ok from the outside but you can see light through the whole thing and it has an creepy dance to it now, makes one a little more seasick than normal to ride in it.


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## northmanlogging

todays fun, 

Topping a little cotton timber fer some friends of mine, quick cash job.

Everything is going just fine, top the tree and get ready to rappel down, move the prusik to keep it out of my beard... add the figure 8, test everything, seems good to go.

release the flip line (which freaks me the **** out everytime anyways) undo the bind on the figure 8...

And I drop like a rock... nothings slowing me down, grip the tail tighter pull nothing, all the figure 8 is doing at this point is slowing me down enough to give the illusion of not free falling.

Finally I remember the death grip on the prusik and let go... about 10 feet from terra firma...

Thankfully I always have the prusik in there just in case, or if I wan't to come to a full stop and do some work etc.

Not real sure as to what happened, only guess is that the rappel line went out and over my saddle or something, so there wasn't enough friction to work properly, it was hooked correctly, just didn't work. 

Fell about 30 feet before the prusik kicked in.


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## rwoods

Glad you had a backup plan. 

Had my own excitement today. My kids think I am old and can't do anything like run, but when a tree suddenly decided to change directions I literally made some tracks. I don't know if it was a puff of wind or what. Came right at me. What made it worse was I had two small snags hanging like pendulums coming with it. I was chasing the hinge at the time. I understand that loggers have to take an axe from time to time to cut their saw out - I wonder how many have had to take their saw to cut their axe out after the tree fell on it.

That white spot to the left is my saw. Axe is under the stem.




Two pendulums one on each side after the stem twisted as it fell.




Didn't show up well but to the left of the downed pendulum there is a good 4 feet of bare earth from where my feet dug in as I ran.




Wasn't intended as anything special at the time I shot this picture today, but when I viewed it on the computer, it reminded me of Bob's avatar a bit.




Ron


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## bitzer

Jesus Matt, thank God yer ok. 

Ron, you cut yer hold wood off. I've run plenty. Don't tell me yer stackin wedges like that!


----------



## rwoods

Yes and no. Yes, I cut the hinge down way too much. No, I am not stacking wedges using slots. 

However, these trees are so small I have to cut a slot not to bottom the wedge against the hinge. Also there is no room behind the bar.* With so many straight tall small diameter trees and thick canopy, I had been comparing 1) putting in the back cut and a wedge slot first, 2) putting in a wedge slot even with the straight face cut then beginning the back cut just above the wedge and wedging it over if it sat down on the bar and 3) putting in a slot even with the intended back cut and then thinning out the sides up to the wedge. 1st approach requires you to set your hinge with the face cut which can be a little difficult for me, and can pinch or snag your saw if the tree begins to fall while you are making the face cuts. 3rd approach was a little rough on the wedges, requires work from both sides of the tree, and may require wedging, regardless of lean, to snap any residual left along the wedge sides. 2nd approach does not require wedging unless the tree sits back and if it does then it requires you to be ready to grab the saw once the tree begins to fall while wedging. Anyway this tree was cut using the 2nd approach. The tree sat down on the saw leaving no crack for a wedge in the back cut. I whacked the slot wedge a few times and it lifted the tree enough that the back cut opened enough to stick in a wedge but I couldn't drive it far due to the saw. Whacked the slot wedge a few more times and the crack opened wide enough to get the saw going and then like an idiot I thought since the tree was moving I would help it by thinning the hinge. It was moving slowing as intended and then in an instant it changed directions 90 degrees and came after me. In hindsight, I believe I should have set a good hinge and then removed the saw and wailed on the back cut wedge and if it bottomed then try to stack beside it. Or maybe I should have taken your advice and put the back cut in first. 

NM and I were fortunate today. Not so for one of the men working a splitter down at the woodlot today - severed a finger. I have not heard yet whether or not they were able to reattach it.

Ron

* Late in the day I started using a little 4" wedge but even it is too long for many of the trees that are too big for me to man handle. Once I made a good clearing in the canopy the small trees became less of a problem as I had more directional options.


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## bitzer

Small dbh can make a fool out of anyone. It went sideways on ya Ron cuz you cut that side of the hinge to tight, but you already knew that. Cut a deep back cut in first like (80-90 percent of the tree), start wedging, then just scratch a face in. Putting the hinge that far forward gives you plenty of room to wedge and stack if you need too. It also takes pressure off the hinge. Also put the full backcut in so you don't have to put the saw back in. These are options if you know you're going to be wedging for sure. If unsure I'd still keep that hinge farther forward than normal just in case. The smallest wedge i own is a 10"er. I've wedged 8" diameter trees with em, maybe smaller. Also setting some up and knocking em over with others saves a lot of work and headaches. Like you said once you get a hole going you have more options. If you doing a clearcut figure out which way most of the trees are leaning before you start cutting. Thats the first thing I do. On a southern exposure or flat ground they typically lean east and south. There are always a few that fight the general lean of the woods, but there will be a general direction the entire woods wants to go. Northern exposre can be a little different, hills, etc.


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## rwoods

Thanks. It never occurred to me to go that deep with the back cut. I assume you have to be quick with the wedge insert.

I have certainly learned why you guys use wedge pouches. More than once yesterday a tree closed on me while I was fighting my clothes to get a wedge out of my pocket.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

I chew the nose of a lot of wedges because I stick em in as soon as there is room, sometimes its not enough room, but they are in there and ready to do what they do.

If there is enough room I'll set one and leave the other hanging, before getting nearly done with the back cut, the hanger is used as a bobber or indicator, it will start to drop or stand up as the tree starts to move one way or the other. Granted with one wedge set they don't usually stand up, unless it sits down hard, but if you just set the first wedge so it don't fall out then it works pretty good, or you can use a fairly narrow wedge and stick it in so its just hanging by itself, but you run the risk of nocking it out on accident then.


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## rwoods

The terrain of the plot I am cutting is best described as the sides of three hills. Most of the trees are straight, tall and small diameter. In addition to trying to leave unmolested the saw timber, I am trying to maintain a firewood lay of crossed stems to keep as much as possible out of the dirt without making a jack straw mess. Big order for this hack. But I am slowly getting back into the swing as well as learning new things. Due to public roads and adjacent properties, I had to leave the fringes and start in the middle.

Thanks for all the advice, bitzer. I know you have an appreciation for the type of patch I am cutting.

Ron


----------



## rwoods

NM, I just now saw your reply. I need to develop the habit of getting a wedge in quick. These dang things are so small that you can zip through them in seconds.

I know I thinned the hinge too much but I still don't know why it came my way other than maybe a puff of wind. It was leaning slightly to the far side as indicated by my two swinging "plumb bobs" and it had the weight of both those "bobs" pulling it that way as well.

Ron


----------



## rwoods

I guess I should add for the sake of any Noob perusing this thread that although I have been wondering why the tree fell my way, the truth remains that without an effective hinge you have no control over the tree and it will fall where external forces take it. I had no effective hinge because I thinned it down to almost nothing. I am fortunate that I had cleared an escape path. I am also fortunate to have an undamaged saw. I have no human explanation of why it landed where it did instead of being crushed.

Ron


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## Metals406

Step cut the back if you want to stick a wedge in a little one, no worries of it closing on ya.


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## rwoods

Explain please. Ron



Metals406 said:


> Step cut the back if you want to stick a wedge in a little one, no worries of it closing on ya.


----------



## Gologit

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/FXC/wxstory.php?wfo=eka


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/FXC/wxstory.php?wfo=eka


CA, the state of extremes.

If yer not on fire, you're getting 'excessive' rain. LOL


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> CA, the state of extremes.
> 
> If yer not on fire, you're getting 'excessive' rain. LOL



Yup, that word caught my eye too. Excessive rain. As opposed to inadequate rain I guess.

Another shining example are the Tsumani Evacuation Route signs that are posted all along the coast. The arrows on the signs all point up hill. Duh. I wonder why we have to be told that. Might be a good Darwin test if somebody pointed the arrows _down hill_ and let IQ sort things out.


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## Skeans

Gologit said:


> Yup, that word caught my eye too. Excessive rain. As opposed to inadequate rain I guess.


It's either they need row boats or tankers full of water, they should be happy to have any rain. 

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## Metals406

rwoods said:


> Explain please. Ron


I'll come up with an example, might even cut a tree fer ya.


----------



## rwoods

Thanks. I'll be back at it tomorrow - in the mud. It rained a lot this week. Ron


----------



## Cedarkerf

Gologit said:


> Yup, that word caught my eye too. Excessive rain. As opposed to inadequate rain I guess.
> 
> Another shining example are the Tsumani Evacuation Route signs that are posted all along the coast. The arrows on the signs all point up hill. Duh. I wonder why we have to be told that. Might be a good Darwin test if somebody pointed the arrows _down hill_ and let IQ sort things out.


Guess Captain Kirk wont be demanding we send water this year


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## rwoods

Today was a beautiful clear day, 33 degrees and no wind. I started a new patch near the edge to may an opening from the highway to access the other patches; trees were mostly not so straight and a little thicker than last week's. Except for most being poplar, life was good. Probably another 50 trees down on two tanks through the MS361. Lots of challenging stuff for me. Vines as big as your forearm, clusters intertwined, tops connected by vines, a few necessary dominoes and two that required wedge stacking. Not one single pinch or bad fall. Then I got the old MAC out to fall a couple 24" poplars and a 30" sycamore. The sycamore and the first poplar had such a slope to the back cut that I came in even with the face cut. All went well but what the heck - different handling saw and muscle memory from the small saw maybe, don't know - I guess I'll have to remount the bubble level on the bar. Also I snapped a wedge earlier in the day. May make it into a high lift 5 incher. 

Ron


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## SliverPicker

I don't see a problem there Ron. Nice job.

Switching saws on dime catches everyone flat footed at times. No biggie.


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## paccity

what the heck is been going on around here.


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> what the heck is been going on around here.



Same old. It's about time you got back here. Staying busy?


----------



## rwoods

paccity said:


> what the heck is been going on around here.



Apparently not too much as there seems to be enough time and patience to put up with my intrusions. For which I am grateful. Ron


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Same old. It's about time you got back here. Staying busy?


ya, busy. don't know if that's good or bad. lol.


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## Skeans

https://www.google.com/search?q=195...ck+truck+with+strippers&imgrc=TqTdJ21eo5VcSM:

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## Skeans

Here's a cool project for someone https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/9b/a3/34/9ba334f4c823735af0e31249faa9a51a.jpg

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## rwoods

Gologit used a term today in another thread that describes 90% of what I have been doing the last two Saturdays - "*weed-whacking*". If it keeps up much longer I may adopt the user name, *Weed Hacker*. 

Ron

PS to Gologit and bitzer: I didn't expect the guy to listen to me. I thought he might listen to you which is why I brought attention to his post, but I was wrong. Anyway, I think the point has been made that the method and goal he described are both dangerous. I, for one, appreciate your efforts.


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## rwoods

Skeans, pretty cool old Mack. When I was a kid one of my great uncles was a Mack dealer. Nothing like today's dealerships. Just a big two bay garage beside the local truck stop. Don't know if he sold out or lost it during a downturn in the 60s or early 70s. Seems he always had a pipe or cigar going, I wish I had saved some of the Mack ashtrays. Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Gologit used a term today in another thread that describes 90% of what I have been doing the last two Saturdays - "*weed-whacking*". If it keeps up much longer I may adopt the user name, *Weed Hacker*.
> 
> Ron
> 
> PS to Gologit and bitzer: I didn't expect the guy to listen to me. I thought he might listen to you which is why I brought attention to his post, but I was wrong. Anyway, I think the point has been made that the method and goal he described are both dangerous. I, for one, appreciate your efforts.


You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink that being said till he has a close call or worse he will always do the same thing. 

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## Gologit

Skeans said:


> You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink that being said till he has a close call or worse he will always do the same thing.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk




Exactly. Rons best efforts, and Bitzer's, and mine, all went unheeded. If a person refuses to learn there's not much you can do with him.
I wished him luck and I meant it. I just hope he stays lucky.


----------



## Skeans

Gologit said:


> Exactly. Rons best efforts, and Bitzer's, and mine, all went unheeded. If a person refuses to learn there's not much you can do with him.
> I wished him luck and I meant it. I just hope he stays lucky.


Exactly I've been around the stuff my whole life and known too many guys killed cutting. 

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## rwoods

Too bad we sometimes mistake good happenstance as the usual. A plight often of those who only dabble in a particular activity - here those of us who are occasional cutters.

I suppose we are all fortunate that we know no AS member who has been killed trying to prove a method is safe.

Ron


----------



## Metals406

Skeans said:


> Exactly I've been around the stuff my whole life and known too many guys killed cutting.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Who?


Gologit said:


> Exactly. Rons best efforts, and Bitzer's, and mine, all went unheeded. If a person refuses to learn there's not much you can do with him.
> I wished him luck and I meant it. I just hope he stays lucky.


----------



## Skeans

Metals406 said:


> Who?


Local guys to me Nate, one guy had a trainee drop a fir on him, another guy got nailed by a widow maker, another had a chair come out and get him. Any lose in the brush is a lose too many.

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## rwoods

I'm just wondering out loud here whether or not first hand photos would make a useful illustrative thread on the other side as to why you should or shouldn't do certain things so that maybe, just maybe, some will see and heed. Then again maybe there is enough carnage already on YouTube that the effort wouldn't be worth it. 

Where I am coming from is: You guys know day in and day out how dangerous things can be. The occasional cutter like me doesn't always know or remember. e.g. I didn't realize until after a week of reflection that the small tree that recently went side ways on me after I castrated the hinge may have been due not to a puff of wind or a miscalculation of the lean but to an overhead vine I didn't see because I didn't purposely look for overhead vines. But what occasional/recreational cutter, except a few other nuts like me, spends so much time thinking about what when wrong - tree is on the ground, cutter didn't get hurt, so all is good, right? The newbie is even more at risk as he likely doesn't even know that he doesn't know and he has nothing to try to remember. These facts of life together with all of the bad, or impossible to discern, advice floating around make a dangerous activity even more dangerous. I want to be safe and I want to help other occasional cutters to be safe. Thought maybe a few photos would help.

You probably know by now that wood cutting is enjoyable and refreshing to me. I took the afternoon off today and cut a few nice size but crooked cherries. Had the top on one snap and fold back slapping the stump with another limb breaking off in the canopy and landing within 10 feet of me in my "safe" zone. Not my first experience, and certainly something each of you have likely experienced many times. I took some pictures, or so I thought, to possibly share on the other side as to one of the reasons you retreat instead of camping at the stump. This could illustrate a couple other lessons as well. Just now checked the phone - no pictures. Not a good start for beginning an illustrative thread. 

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

got a link to that thread? I don't wander much on purpose...


Speaking of tops breaking out, few years ago was helping out the Scouts with a weird hazard removal/thinning project they got... weird... (now that I think about it... the whole thing was kinda odd...)

anyway Hemlocks out here if left unchecked with grow into a tight thicket nearly stem on stem, only the strong survive, the job was to take out the weaker smaller trees, and those that where dead...

Well, 5 adults there, and 20 or so scouts, I'm the only idiot wearing a hard hat, pushing a tall dead snag out of a group of trees, the stupid thing broke just a hair under half way up, the tippy top came down and got me square in the hat, left a nice little dent, probably would have knocked me out or cracked my skull at the least...

Also, come to think of it, that little project introduced me to my first logging client, a year or so later we came back with the ole 9n and started dragging logs out for him...


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> I'm just wondering out loud here whether or not first hand photos would make a useful illustrative thread on the other side as to why you should or shouldn't do certain things so that maybe, just maybe, some will see and heed. Then again maybe there is enough carnage already on YouTube that the effort wouldn't be worth it.
> 
> Where I am coming from is: You guys know day in and day out how dangerous things can be. The occasional cutter like me doesn't always know or remember. e.g. I didn't realize until after a week of reflection that the small tree that recently went side ways on me after I castrated the hinge may have been due not to a puff of wind or a miscalculation of the lean but to an overhead vine I didn't see because I didn't purposely look for overhead vines. But what occasional/recreational cutter, except a few other nuts like me, spends so much time thinking about what when wrong - tree is on the ground, cutter didn't get hurt, so all is good, right? The newbie is even more at risk as he likely doesn't even know that he doesn't know and he has nothing to try to remember. These facts of life together with all of the bad, or impossible to discern, advice floating around make a dangerous activity even more dangerous. I want to be safe and I want to help other occasional cutters to be safe. Thought maybe a few photos would help.
> 
> You probably know by now that wood cutting is enjoyable and refreshing to me. I took the afternoon off today and cut a few nice size but crooked cherries. Had the top on one snap and fold back slapping the stump with another limb breaking off in the canopy and landing within 10 feet of me in my "safe" zone. Not my first experience, and certainly something each of you have likely experienced many times. I took some pictures, or so I thought, to possibly share on the other side as to one of the reasons you retreat instead of camping at the stump. This could illustrate a couple other lessons as well. Just now checked the phone - no pictures. Not a good start for beginning an illustrative thread.
> 
> Ron



I applaud your efforts Ron. I hope it does some good. I try not to get involved in those kind of threads any more...passing of the torch and all that...but sometimes it's hard to keep quiet when somebody is promoting a dangerous method.
Our friend in the Firewood section is a good example. He won't change and that's alright but, as you've said, others might be influenced by his goofy ideas.
The thing that I see time and time again are people having close calls, dangerously close calls, and not being even remotely aware of what almost happened. That's scary.

Here's a case in point. I don't think this guy really quite understands how close he came.


----------



## Gypo Logger

It's a dangerous place in the woods when falling timber, but that's part of the reason we love being there.
As long as we don't have a contemptuous disregard for safety, we can stay alive and uninjuried a lot longer.
Falling timber reminds me of a gentle dance, even though I can't dance. Lol


----------



## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> got a link to that thread? I don't wander much on purpose...



No thread - just contemplating.



Gologit said:


> but sometimes it's hard to keep quiet when somebody is promoting a dangerous method.



Understand that completely.



Gypo Logger said:


> It's a dangerous place in the woods when falling timber, but that's part of the reason we love being there.
> As long as we don't have a contemptuous disregard for safety, we can stay alive and uninjuried a lot longer.



I agree trying to figure out and overcome the danger is a big part of the appeal - but I for one don't want my epitaph to be "Killed in an accident, but he was doing what he loved."

I also agree with the "lot longer" part. There is no certainty except maybe that if you do this long enough you will be injured and possibly killed.

I would add to your comments that a disregard for safety includes lack of knowledge, training and skills. How many times have you posted when a stall or hard wedging is discussed, "Maybe you have an unintended Dutchman?" At least once in response to me, maybe twice. I remember this because ever since I try to make a conscientious effort to check for them - falling life has improved for me thanks to you.

Ron


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## rwoods

I got my dates mixed up and the Florida high school crew showed up today. I was bucking firewood in the poplar patch when I was tapped on the shoulder and told there were 48 folks on a bus looking for me. We took them to another site where the incline was too steep for the trucks and trailers. Below are some pictures of their preferred fire bucket method of chunking. They did a good job in the few hours we had them. No injuries. Ron


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## rwoods

I took a new shot of the cherry fold-back. Not sure it is dramatic enough to make the point to not dally at the stump. Ron


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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> I took a new shot of the cherry fold-back. Not sure it is dramatic enough to make the point to not dally at the stump. Ron
> 
> View attachment 491595


Ron can I ask why the high stumps? 

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## rwoods

Skeans said:


> Ron can I ask why the high stumps?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



To make grubbing easier for the landowner; the entire site will be cleared for construction. Usually around here contractors don't want trees cut at all so they can uproot them easier. I hate cutting dirty wood hauled in dump trucks, so I jumped on this opportunity to get in front of a contractor while trying not to take advantage of the LO. Also I am taking only firewood and leaving any tree that may be saw timber, so leaving a few feet on what I do cut is no big deal. And my back likes it.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

I get to go logging all this week, I even scheduled in a weekend... 

I may get used to this ****, though its looking like I get to drive through most of 4 counties in the next 4 days... even though the new site is only 10 miles from home?


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## SliverPicker

10 miles? That's cheating, ain't it?


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## Skeans

SliverPicker said:


> 10 miles? That's cheating, ain't it?


Lol that's called heaven, that was one bonus about working for the companies they tried to keep us with a 1/2 or so one way.

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## northmanlogging

SliverPicker said:


> 10 miles? That's cheating, ain't it?



Of course it is...

Its also the benefit of living where I do, close enough to the city to get the moneyed folks, and far enough away to still have timber... so the moneyed folks buy up all the good timber then call me to cut it all down.

The county passed an ordinance a few years back blocking developments with houses on less then 5 acres... makes for a bunch of folks with more dirt then they know what to do with... and more trees than you can shake a husky at.

Figure in that Snohomish county is roughly the size of Rhode Island... that's a bunch of dirt what needs clear cut...


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Of course it is...
> 
> Its also the benefit of living where I do, close enough to the city to get the moneyed folks, and far enough away to still have timber... so the moneyed folks buy up all the good timber then call me to cut it all down.
> 
> The county passed an ordinance a few years back blocking developments with houses on less then 5 acres... makes for a bunch of folks with more dirt then they know what to do with... and more trees than you can shake a husky at.
> 
> Figure in that Snohomish county is roughly the size of Rhode Island... that's a bunch of dirt what needs clear cut...


Wonder how long till the greenies try to push no clear cutting?

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## northmanlogging

They already have tried several times, in several different ways, currently they are trying to make developers, and loggers responsible for neighboring trees health and "safety" claiming that disrupting the ground disturbs neighboring trees making them unsafe,

Or worst yet they used the Oso slide to put a moratorium on logging and building, before any geological study's had been completed, now that they have and logging has been determined not to be a cause, yet some people still claim it was a 7 acre clear cut on the back side of a ridge that caused the slide... therefore logging is evil...

The county wants like 1500 or more for any kind of clearing and grading permit, or more, yet DNR only needs 100 for a forestry permit, and they more or less issue them without qualms as long as there isn't much "wet" land.

.... politics... etc... ******* idiots.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> They already have tried several times, in several different ways, currently they are trying to make developers, and loggers responsible for neighboring trees health and "safety" claiming that disrupting the ground disturbs neighboring trees making them unsafe,
> 
> Or worst yet they used the Oso slide to put a moratorium on logging and building, before any geological study's had been completed, now that they have and logging has been determined not to be a cause, yet some people still claim it was a 7 acre clear cut on the back side of a ridge that caused the slide... therefore logging is evil...
> 
> The county wants like 1500 or more for any kind of clearing and grading permit, or more, yet DNR only needs 100 for a forestry permit, and they more or less issue them without qualms as long as there isn't much "wet" land.
> 
> .... politics... etc... ******* idiots.


No one said they were smart, got to love their new moto banana. 

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## SliverPicker

This is still 'Merica last I heard so the greenie meanies must have a point. It's always someone else's fault...


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## bitzer

In certain counties here clearcuts just aren't allowed. They often don't pass the land use boards. Its amazing how little govts can have so much pull. Working around any water gets sketchy pretty quick. Mud on the road from the trucks. That will get some phone calls. Its amazing what the farmers can get away with though. The'll have liquid **** poured all over the road for a half mile. Re-routing drainage and trenching out creeks. If i want to cross a stream you can float a canoe in (float, not navigate mind you) i need a dnr approved crossing and a $300 permit. Unless the timber is great we usually walk on those. 

My nearest job was 2 miles from my house. I cut 225 mbf out of there so far. Going back next winter too. Otherwise 30 mins to an hour is average.


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## northmanlogging

so I did the unthinkable today...

unfortunately didn't get any pictures...

I stood a tree back up! Then cut it down!

Little wind fall cedar for a friend of mine, tossed over a neighbors fence, root wad still attached, so I started limbing it up planning on just hacking of the stump and hoping the fence survived. Well it started to lift as I was limbing er up, not much mind but I could get under it and push a little and she'd move. So limbed off as much as possible from the ground, tied a bull line to it, anchored the other end to the crummy and put a 3-1 in there, with two fat guys pullin on it is stood right up, still leaned a bit the wrong way, but no worries, cut er free while dude pulled on the 3-1 and over she went. Damndest thing I've done with a tree in quite some time though.


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## ChoppyChoppy

Had to be rushed to the ER Saturday evening. Out of the blue it was all I could do to take even a tiny breath. Massive pain on my right side between shoulder and hip.

Bad Pnemonia in right lung and plural effussion (water on lung lining) also been running a fever. Feeling a bit better, but barely. Doc said they may have to suck out the effussion.


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## SliverPicker

That don't sound too fun there VF!


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## catbuster

It's only been two weeks and I'm sick of sleeping in my shop office. And I'm still looking for a person I can mould into the guy I need to run an operation without my oversight. Might be a long year...

On the plus side, I get some more shiny iron delivered Friday and then we'll be in full swing in the Keystone, Empire and Bluegrass states.


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## northmanlogging

perhaps its there to create a whistling noise as you slice through some sum beech at 60 mph (100 kph), that a way you can pretend you have a light sabre?

Or its just a tooling hole...


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## Gypo Logger




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## Skeans

The only way to end a night

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## northmanlogging

Just spent the last 3 hours looking over a FS contract... only to find the bits I needed at the very end... 90% of the stuff in it don't apply to me, or they concern archaic payment methods.

At this point I'm not even sure they will take a check or if they wan't everything in virgin blood or gold bullion... 

My head hurts, my eyes hurt, and I still need a shower.

On the plus side this is totally the my kind of job and timber, no tracks allowed, no full length skidding/yarding, must have a winch, 
So wheeled skidder it is...

I am a little concerned about that whole 12" or less stump height though...


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Just spent the last 3 hours looking over a FS contract... only to find the bits I needed at the very end... 90% of the stuff in it don't apply to me, or they concern archaic payment methods.
> 
> At this point I'm not even sure they will take a check or if they wan't everything in virgin blood or gold bullion...
> 
> My head hurts, my eyes hurt, and I still need a shower.
> 
> On the plus side this is totally the my kind of job and timber, no tracks allowed, no full length skidding/yarding, must have a winch,
> So wheeled skidder it is...
> 
> I am a little concerned about that whole 12" or less stump height though...


Would a clambuck forwarder or a regular forwarder work better?

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## northmanlogging

? maybe, its more of an aggressive thin in patches, 4-6 trees per campsite ish, and to get any money out of them they need to be cut long 36-40' bunch of co-dom, and double topped stuff. 

Camp ground is paved everywhere except each camp spot, hence the no tracked rigs.

All decent sized marketable timber, I'm thinking about a load per camp site or 2, just drag em up to the road where a self loader can get at em, and gopher it.

there is a bunch probably 3 loads that I'm guessing the FS cut and is just laying in small piles all over the place? Either that or someone was sport falling...


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## Gypo Logger

northmanlogging said:


> ? maybe, its more of an aggressive thin in patches, 4-6 trees per campsite ish, and to get any money out of them they need to be cut long 36-40' bunch of co-dom, and double topped stuff.
> 
> Camp ground is paved everywhere except each camp spot, hence the no tracked rigs.
> 
> All decent sized marketable timber, I'm thinking about a load per camp site or 2, just drag em up to the road where a self loader can get at em, and gopher it.
> 
> there is a bunch probably 3 loads that I'm guessing the FS cut and is just laying in small piles all over the place? Either that or someone was sport falling...


Would be interesting to see how much hardware is found in those campsite trees. How old would you guess the trees to be? Doug Fir?


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## northmanlogging

doug fir hemlock and white fir, mostly doug fir,

I'll be bringing spare batteries for the metal detector, probably spend an hour on each camp site searching fer nails, Done learned my lesson there...

Lost 3k bf on one load because of nails/bullets not too long ago... tends to hurt the pocket more then a little.

hard to say on the age, maybe 60-70 years, not real good dirt, getting a ways up on baker so cold most of the year.

trees are in the 25-30 dbh range.

There is a couple few nice old growth sticks on one side of this camp ground, but I'm a guessing I would be imprisoned if'n I tried to cut em down on the sly like...


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## Gypo Logger

I hear ya, city trees are often a gamble, but sometimes the payback for the end user may be the grain, figure and patina in these trees that have been subject to so much activity and weather.
A veener buyer once told me the best grain and figure is closest to the center rot.
Honey is honey sweet, however the hiving. Which reminds me of a 36" white oak I dumped that was loaded with bees and honey, it was a city tree in a bush at a casino where my landing was the parking lot. Got 12,000 ft of veneer and sawlogs out of that casino bush. The wood cost me 10,000 on the stump for 24 stems, mostly heavily tapped Rock Maple, but somehow managed to double my money. What I left behind was sold for 20,000 to another concern who I would never deal with. Doubt there was anything left and probably just a bad haircut.


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## northmanlogging

Spent the last 2 days dragging the motor out of the missus on account of a burned up clutch only to find this, for a pressure plate...


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## northmanlogging

todays fun, 3 trees 3 tanks of gas in ye ole o66. Add that to the 1.5 is trees on the pile and I just about have a load already, each one today got 138-134' of logs bucked the top off at 8"

Last one to fall for the day, and the wind decided to pick up, she's a back leaner towards a shop and a fancy boat, as I'm smacking wedges I see my bobber wedge start dancing all on its own, and the stem lifts right off the 3 other wedges, thinkin alrighty that wasn't so bad... and then it sat down again, this happened 3-4 times before it finally went over.

I could use a few more days like this, only maybe without the various other hiccups along the way... like thinking oh one tank of gas should be enough for 3 sticks, and I won't need a spare chain... yes you'll need both, and probably another chain before the day is over... meanwhile the crummy is parked uphill...


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> todays fun, 3 trees 3 tanks of gas in ye ole o66. Add that to the 1.5 is trees on the pile and I just about have a load already, each one today got 138-134' of logs bucked the top off at 8"
> 
> Last one to fall for the day, and the wind decided to pick up, she's a back leaner towards a shop and a fancy boat, as I'm smacking wedges I see my bobber wedge start dancing all on its own, and the stem lifts right off the 3 other wedges, thinkin alrighty that wasn't so bad... and then it sat down again, this happened 3-4 times before it finally went over.
> 
> I could use a few more days like this, only maybe without the various other hiccups along the way... like thinking oh one tank of gas should be enough for 3 sticks, and I won't need a spare chain... yes you'll need both, and probably another chain before the day is over... meanwhile the crummy is parked uphill...


Isn't that the way it works you need more when you're near a house or shed?

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## SliverPicker

northmanlogging said:


> Spent the last 2 days dragging the motor out of the missus on account of a burned up clutch only to find this, for a pressure plate...
> 
> View attachment 505406
> View attachment 505407


Good to see everything is normal!


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## northmanlogging

Tomorrow is Monday... 

I plan on sleeping in a bit...

Loading up some saws, maybe even the ole cut off saw...

Then I'm going to take more or less the same path I normally go on a monday, but I'm going to skip a turn and go about 7 miles farther, on top of a hill where there arn't a whole lot of trees left standing...

Scratch my butt a bit, fill up the saws, maybe have a thoughtful conversation with a bush, put my earplugs in...


Then start Killing Trees full time... well mostly... 4 days a week now... as of last Friday I'm a part time machinist... and full time logger.


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## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> Tomorrow is Monday...
> 
> I plan on sleeping in a bit...
> 
> Loading up some saws, maybe even the ole cut off saw...
> 
> Then I'm going to take more or less the same path I normally go on a monday, but I'm going to skip a turn and go about 7 miles farther, on top of a hill where there arn't a whole lot of trees left standing...
> 
> Scratch my butt a bit, fill up the saws, maybe have a thoughtful conversation with a bush, put my earplugs in...
> 
> 
> Then start Killing Trees full time... well mostly... 4 days a week now... as of last Friday I'm a part time machinist... and full time logger.



Pulling for you. Doing something you enjoy to make a living generally makes for a better life. Ron


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## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> Tomorrow is Monday...
> 
> I plan on sleeping in a bit...
> 
> Loading up some saws, maybe even the ole cut off saw...
> 
> Then I'm going to take more or less the same path I normally go on a monday, but I'm going to skip a turn and go about 7 miles farther, on top of a hill where there arn't a whole lot of trees left standing...
> 
> Scratch my butt a bit, fill up the saws, maybe have a thoughtful conversation with a bush, put my earplugs in...
> 
> 
> Then start Killing Trees full time... well mostly... 4 days a week now... as of last Friday I'm a part time machinist... and full time logger.



Wow.

That's Something to be Proud of.


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## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> Tomorrow is Monday...
> 
> I plan on sleeping in a bit...
> 
> Loading up some saws, maybe even the ole cut off saw...
> 
> Then I'm going to take more or less the same path I normally go on a monday, but I'm going to skip a turn and go about 7 miles farther, on top of a hill where there arn't a whole lot of trees left standing...
> 
> Scratch my butt a bit, fill up the saws, maybe have a thoughtful conversation with a bush, put my earplugs in...
> 
> 
> Then start Killing Trees full time... well mostly... 4 days a week now... as of last Friday I'm a part time machinist... and full time logger.


That's awesome Matt! Glad to hear it!


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## 2dogs

Good for you Matt!


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## SliverPicker

Atta boy!


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## Skeans

New version of a crummy god I miss having a one ton or bigger truck.






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## 2dogs

Is it parked standing on its tailgate?


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## Skeans

2dogs said:


> Is it parked standing on its tailgate?


Sorry my phone keeps flipping pictures 

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## northmanlogging

As i write this i'm on the side of the highway, waiting for a tow truck.

Got the last of the brush moved from the last job, tomorrow i was going to move the missus onto the next project...

Fer the last 6 months or so i've veen throwing money at the e dumper truck trying to figure out why she makes a horendous banging... well its not the drive line...

Looks like i done junked the tranny.

To be fair it does have a massive amount of miles on it so it put up a good fight...

And this is what i get fer telling folks i was thinkin of selling her... right in front of her...

Tow truck should be here soon... so there goes yule... trannys are cheap and avaliable so few weeks she'll be scaring children again


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## northmanlogging

Well... been an hour... tow trucks sayd 45 more minutes...


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## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> Well... been an hour... tow trucks sayd 45 more minutes...



You could change the tranny in that length of time. Tough day. 

Ron


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## madhatte

Daaaaaaang, man, rough break.


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## Odog

Well crap! Sorry man, nothin like a breakdown to ruin the day


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## northmanlogging

She shall live again...

there is always the option of 3208 and a 13spd...


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## rwoods

If you lived closer, I would try to hook you up with a CAT/Allison deuce and a half. Ron


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## northmanlogging

Oh?

how much?


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## rwoods

You would be stepping on your beard by the time you drove that thing from here to there. 56 mph while closing in on 3000 rpms. 

Ron


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## northmanlogging

yeah... but it would do everything I asked of it here.

especially if it has a dump bed.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> yeah... but it would do everything I asked of it here.
> 
> especially if it has a dump bed.


Matt have you seen the self loading mule trains?


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## northmanlogging

the east coast versions, didn't know they had em out here with the piggy back set up, kinda cool


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## northmanlogging

I wonder how popular them little cabs are going to be, seems like a whole bunch of extra weight and stuff to get in the way.

And that dude needs some grease


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> the east coast versions, didn't know they had em out here with the piggy back set up, kinda cool


They were originally from Montana and did work for a company called Miller Timber Services doing thinning for them all over Oregon.

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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> I wonder how popular them little cabs are going to be, seems like a whole bunch of extra weight and stuff to get in the way.
> 
> And that dude needs some grease


Not sure but I've never liked the open cab of the standard self loaders, I have two log lift cranes they've been impressive that's for sure.

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## 1270d

Met those l&l guys a couple years ago. Nice fellas, we're running the same equipment,just different geography and timber.


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## northmanlogging

I hate incompetent ass hats...

Also I tend to mouth off and call ********, which leads others to accuse me of having a "bad attitude" 

I also hate loosing money/hours because some other kitty couldn't figure his job out, but is real good at talking hisself into a position of authority...

My ***** for the week...


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## 1270d

We are really far behind on trucking right now. Getting to be over 6 thousand tons decked. Not sure if there are many folks from the UP or northeastern Wisconsin around, but if there is available trucks send me a pm. Getting to the point where it will be tight to get caught up before breakup.

A good part of the guys here ditch the loggers and go storming in the south for a good part of the winter. Just can't seem to catch anyone available. Know anyone @SliverPicker?


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## Gypo Logger

I dumped this load of wood the other day.


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## rwoods

Nice aim. Seriously, sorry for the expensive carnage. Ron


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## Gypo Logger




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## Gypo Logger

rwoods said:


> Nice aim. Seriously, sorry for the expensive carnage. Ron


Ron, it was only a 362, when they made that one, they made alot of them.


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## madhatte

It'll buff out.


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## northmanlogging

ms260 would have taken it and still run... ask how I know...


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## TN woodcutter

Northman, I did (or rather, a friend did) that exact thing on Tuesday to my 260. Went over there, and she fired right up-a lot uglier now though, haha.


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## northmanlogging

Ive smadhed mine 2 or 3 times now between the winch and an incoming log, ran it over at least once, ported the snot out of it, ran it extra lean for 2 years until i got the correct carb... still runs

I ran it out of gas monday and just assumed it had finally died.... threw it at the crummy... added gas still runs like a champ


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## TN woodcutter

Can't say mine has seen as much abuse, Northman, but It does go to show Stihl might have hit on something with the 260, haha. Maybe thinking about swapping to a 362, though. Or maybe just buying it outright, and keeping the 260 anyways


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## northmanlogging

been looking at the 261, but the poor little thing keeps on going.


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## Skeans

I must have a lemon then I can't keep mine running to save my life.

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## TN woodcutter

Could be Skeans. I've honestly been wanting to upgrade to a 60cc class saw for my general use saw. Sometimes I feel like the 50ish cc's the 260 has isn't enough for me, especially with an 18" bar.


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## northmanlogging

2 screw carb, some of the newer versions dont idle real good, hard to get ghe mix correct.

That and [email protected]@@@ing the intake helps a bit


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## Skeans

The new crummy

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## SliverPicker

1270d said:


> We are really far behind on trucking right now. Getting to be over 6 thousand tons decked. Not sure if there are many folks from the UP or northeastern Wisconsin around, but if there is available trucks send me a pm. Getting to the point where it will be tight to get caught up before breakup.
> 
> A good part of the guys here ditch the loggers and go storming in the south for a good part of the winter. Just can't seem to catch anyone available. Know anyone @SliverPicker?


Check your PMs.


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## SliverPicker

I would stay FAR away from the 362s. Read my review. Stihl officially has still not resolved the issues. After roughly 17 months they just replaced my computerized 362 with a non computerized version. Customer service from the manufacturer has been worse than you could possibly imagine.

I will never again buy anything that says STIHL on the side.


----------



## Skeans

SliverPicker said:


> I would stay FAR away from the 362s. Read my review. Stihl officially has still not resolved the issues. After roughly 17 months they just replaced my computerized 362 with a non computerized version. Customer service from the manufacturer has been worse than you could possibly imagine.
> 
> I will never again buy anything that says STIHL on the side.


The same sized saw I've had the 562 for a few years running a 32" bar never had a lick of issues only complaint is the Dawgs on the W from day one.

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## TN woodcutter

Yeah, I liked the one I ran a few weeks ago (when it oiled), but I honestly think I'm leaning Husky. Their contractor lineup of saws looks decent enough. Idk, we'll see.


----------



## Skeans

TN woodcutter said:


> Yeah, I liked the one I ran a few weeks ago (when it oiled), but I honestly think I'm leaning Husky. Their contractor lineup of saws looks decent enough. Idk, we'll see.


You looking at the 555 if so we have one it's been a great replacement to our 357's we had before.

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## TN woodcutter

Skeans, if I did go with the contractor lineup, I'd probably go with a 70cc saw. I still don't know about the whole 60cc saw thing. We'll see. I've got a great saw shop 10 minutes away (Terry Landrum's shop, Wicked Work Saw) so I'd have good dealer support. Maybe I'll run by and ask his opinions on the matter when I'm ready to buy.


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## Gologit

TN woodcutter said:


> Skeans, if I did go with the contractor lineup, I'd probably go with a 70cc saw. I still don't know about the whole 60cc saw thing. We'll see. I've got a great saw shop 10 minutes away (Terry Landrum's shop, Wicked Work Saw) so I'd have good dealer support. Maybe I'll run by and ask his opinions on the matter when I'm ready to buy.



Terry is a good choice. He won't steer you wrong or try to sell you something you don't need.


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## SliverPicker

To say that a 555 is a good replacement for a 357 is saying something.


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## rwoods

Gologit said:


> Terry is a good choice. He won't steer you wrong or try to sell you something you don't need.



What he said. Ron


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## northmanlogging

say what you will about ford, they have almost always got me home

well twice I've needed a tow, once cause the rod that had been knocking for 3 years let go at around 80mph

and the dumper truck when the tranny died, though I would argue it would have made it home, if i wasn't concerned about traffic, 1st gear for 12 miles isn't like a horrible idea...

Anyway, the horrible banging got lots worse today, even had one of the self loader jockeys call and ask if i made it off the island... (actually I wen't and made a 3rd run...)

So's i get homes, and drop the drain plug on the rear end... and this plops out, theres more in there, but I need to find a new diff... so until then...


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## Trx250r180

If you dont find one close to home i may have a diff


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## northmanlogging

there are tons of em, just a matter of convincing the yards to pull it for me, or that they infact do have one... in an international or chevy or dodge... or a 85' they is kinda dumb around here.

i don't care about gear ratio, as long as the bastard fits and goes zoom when i'm done with it.

its like the clark trans escapade, every yard has 17 trucks with a trans or diff that will work, but it doesn't fit their narrow window of knowledge so... "we aint got none" is the standard answer.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> there are tons of em, just a matter of convincing the yards to pull it for me, or that they infact do have one... in an international or chevy or dodge... or a 85' they is kinda dumb around here.
> 
> i don't care about gear ratio, as long as the bastard fits and goes zoom when i'm done with it.
> 
> its like the clark trans escapade, every yard has 17 trucks with a trans or diff that will work, but it doesn't fit their narrow window of knowledge so... "we aint got none" is the standard answer.


All it takes is one pissed off customer to come back on you because something doesn't fit to do that.

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----------



## madhatte

Arggh, ye olde steel diamonds in the drain oil routine, I know that one unfortunately well.


----------



## Skeans

madhatte said:


> Arggh, ye olde steel diamonds in the drain oil routine, I know that one unfortunately well.


Nothing like seeing that on a Friday night to ruin a weekend fast, never fun pulling a pumpkin either.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## madhatte

I get a bit wistful thinking of the first time I ever saw 'em. It was the transfer case on my old Willys wagon. I thought "now what the hell is that... it couldn't be... IT IS... OH NO" and I reckon you can guess how my next couple of days went.


----------



## rwoods

NM, don't be so hard on the junk man. There are just too many variations and oddities to contain it all. I worked at a junk yard while going to school. The most dreaded request was for a part for such and such model of an International truck. International used so many vendors that we had a saying that you could take the door off an International, lean it against the fender, come back next week and it wouldn't fit back on. That said, find a yard that will let you prowl freely and you will likely find what you need.

Ron


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> there are tons of em, just a matter of convincing the yards to pull it for me, or that they infact do have one... in an international or chevy or dodge... or a 85' they is kinda dumb around here.
> 
> i don't care about gear ratio, as long as the bastard fits and goes zoom when i'm done with it.
> 
> its like the clark trans escapade, every yard has 17 trucks with a trans or diff that will work, but it doesn't fit their narrow window of knowledge so... "we aint got none" is the standard answer.


If you look on the bottom line of your vin sticker in the driver door should say axle and have a code under it like h9 or something similar if you google the code should be able to tell axle type and ratio etc off it .saves from crawling in the mud to read the tags .


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> NM, don't be so hard on the junk man. There are just too many variations and oddities to contain it all. I worked at a junk yard while going to school. The most dreaded request was for a part for such and such model of an International truck. International used so many vendors that we had a saying that you could take the door off an International, lean it against the fender, come back next week and it wouldn't fit back on. That said, find a yard that will let you prowl freely and you will likely find what you need.
> 
> Ron



Its the shear mind numbing stupidity and laziness of the junk yards around here that bothers me, most won't let you wander, those that do don't keep track of what they have, or worse Pick and Pull, they keep track of the vehicle make and model but not what has come off of it, so chances are within a week everything of use has been stripped, and they charge admission.



Trx250r180 said:


> If you look on the bottom line of your vin sticker in the driver door should say axle and have a code under it like h9 or something similar if you google the code should be able to tell axle type and ratio etc off it .saves from crawling in the mud to read the tags .



The door sticker is there... but it don't say much anymore, I'll have to get under it and find the casting numbers the hard way, its just an Eaton Rear end, nothing all that fancy. Like I said gear ratios, matter not, splines and bolt pattern are all I care about. 

Truck is going to get sold off as soon as its road worthy again, If i need a cdl to pull my trailer might as well get a truck that can pull the excavator as well.

Granted i have no idear where all this money is going to come from.


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Its the shear mind numbing stupidity and laziness of the junk yards around here that bothers me, most won't let you wander, those that do don't keep track of what they have, or worse Pick and Pull, they keep track of the vehicle make and model but not what has come off of it, so chances are within a week everything of use has been stripped, and they charge admission.
> 
> 
> 
> The door sticker is there... but it don't say much anymore, I'll have to get under it and find the casting numbers the hard way, its just an Eaton Rear end, nothing all that fancy. Like I said gear ratios, matter not, splines and bolt pattern are all I care about.
> 
> Truck is going to get sold off as soon as its road worthy again, If i need a cdl to pull my trailer might as well get a truck that can pull the excavator as well.
> 
> Granted i have no idear where all this money is going to come from.


I thought your f250 needed one ,i got an ihc one from a 89 2 speed ,and a 68 chevy with 2 speed rears ,the ihc may work


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> say what you will about ford, they have almost always got me home
> 
> well twice I've needed a tow, once cause the rod that had been knocking for 3 years let go at around 80mph
> 
> and the dumper truck when the tranny died, though I would argue it would have made it home, if i wasn't concerned about traffic, 1st gear for 12 miles isn't like a horrible idea...
> 
> Anyway, the horrible banging got lots worse today, even had one of the self loader jockeys call and ask if i made it off the island... (actually I wen't and made a 3rd run...)
> 
> So's i get homes, and drop the drain plug on the rear end... and this plops out, theres more in there, but I need to find a new diff... so until then...
> 
> View attachment 575515




Hey Buddy,

Please Consider something like this:
https://qalo.com/collections/silico...+Proposition&gclid=CLXKrousw9MCFce4wAodVY0FAQ

I've seen bad things happen with metal bands.


----------



## rwoods

My dad never wore his wedding band after the wedding so I am told. He always told me that too many working men had lost their finger with one. I thought I was safe working an office job until I snagged mine on an aluminum stair rail as I was bounding down it. Cut me all the way around and turned the ring into a tear drop before it let go. But wearing it meant a lot to my wife so I had it reshaped and all the edges rounded. Thirty plus years - so far so good. If it was made of something other than a soft metal I could have lost my finger. Ron


----------



## Skeans

Matt good luck finding a big rig yard that isn't LKQ anymore, you'll need to full tag off the diff as well as the axle housing to be sure.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

That one looks pretty damned close, think maybe the 2spd motor bolts are the other direction though... 

As far as the ring thing, I don't wear safety glasses or chaps either, don't even own steel toed boots, **** happens, seen lots of folks loose fingers, know folks that lost an eye, when its time its time.

granted I still wear a hard hat in the woods... cause them trees don't have watches and like to throw heavy **** at folks what is trying to kill em.


----------



## northmanlogging

I might have to make a trip to PA just to rob some of them 20" budd wheels, they is gettin scarce over here.


----------



## northmanlogging

put 150 miles on ye ole dumper truck today, notably that was also 7 loads...

put a new diff in er last thursday. and I think that maybe the diff was bad from the day I bought it cause its never driven that well.

Did loose a spark plug after the first load though, once again the porcelain had come loose from the threaded bit. limped her to the local NAPA borrowed a wrench and bought a new plug only to find out that the rest of em where all loose, but the porcelain hadn't come apart yet.

So not only does the truck ride a whole lot better now that its not hopping from the broken ring gear... runs a lot better too.

Still selling the ****ing thing though.


----------



## northmanlogging

anyone remember being young dump and clumsy, wrenching on stuff only to find more spare parts or missing bolts/pieces when you were done?

Like how does one end up with multiple trans mount bolts but they are all in?

Anyway, tore apart the brake on muh main saw a few days ago, after waiting on a few parts put it back together today, no spare parts, no missing bolts? Somehow in the last decade or 2 I managed to figure out how to wrench on stuff without making things worse.


----------



## chucker

northmanlogging said:


> anyone remember being young dump and clumsy, wrenching on stuff only to find more spare parts or missing bolts/pieces when you were done?
> 
> Like how does one end up with multiple trans mount bolts but they are all in?
> 
> Anyway, tore apart the brake on muh main saw a few days ago, after waiting on a few parts put it back together today, no spare parts, no missing bolts? Somehow in the last decade or 2 I managed to figure out how to wrench on stuff without making things worse.


 LOL ?? then you must be one of the few people that are called "EXPERTERIENCED", a mix of fortunate & lucky at the same time.... now myself, just that plain dumb luck of a blind squirrel always seeming to find a tree full of nuts in the middle of the north pole.


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Anyway, tore apart the brake on muh main saw a few days ago, after waiting on a few parts put it back together today, no spare parts, no missing bolts? Somehow in the last decade or 2 I managed to figure out how to wrench on stuff without making things worse.



DUUUUUDE


----------



## Skeans

Mini crummy saves your butt when you're cutting so far from any of the main rock roads or landings.





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## northmanlogging

Tried moving the excavator to a new job yesterday...

only all the trees i was planning on killing, and the stump i was going to get paid to pull, where all gone...

Called and confirmed 2 weeks earlier...

No contract on this one, among other things, 

And to top it off all my other jobs are either waiting on permits or on vacation so I can't get ahold of em or move onto it until june.


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> Tried moving the excavator to a new job yesterday...
> 
> only all the trees i was planning on killing, and the stump i was going to get paid to pull, where all gone...
> 
> Called and confirmed 2 weeks earlier...
> 
> No contract on this one, among other things,
> 
> And to top it off all my other jobs are either waiting on permits or on vacation so I can't get ahold of em or move onto it until june.



Wow.


----------



## northmanlogging

filmed my commute today... took soooo looonnnng...


----------



## 1270d

northmanlogging said:


> filmed my commute today... took soooo looonnnng...



Can't beat a job that close to home. My record is about ten minutes.


----------



## Skeans

1270d said:


> Can't beat a job that close to home. My record is about ten minutes.


I'm spoiled right now working on my own place there's sure days I do miss being back on the road.

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## northmanlogging

Wentvto startvthe skidder today after messing with some fuel lones to try and fix a leak...

To preface this its hot, i've already spent half the day falling timber, yesterday was a day off so of course i spent it mostly hammered and muh allergies are on full allert so im takin some el cheapo allergy stuff that nakes yer hed feel like a helium ballon...

Anyway skidders been sitting out by the main road fer a week and apparently some kids decided to play on it... throttle wide open and stuck and jammed into high gear.... I never leave it in gear so i go ahead and whack the go button without lookin... standing on th ground of course, being the good skidder it is it fires right up and takes off fer the gate...


Didn't get me cause muh grip on the wheel is stronger then some stupid tire but damn.. it twas close


----------



## rwoods

Glad you had a good grip. Ron


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Wentvto startvthe skidder today after messing with some fuel lones to try and fix a leak...
> 
> To preface this its hot, i've already spent half the day falling timber, yesterday was a day off so of course i spent it mostly hammered and muh allergies are on full allert so im takin some el cheapo allergy stuff that nakes yer hed feel like a helium ballon...
> 
> Anyway skidders been sitting out by the main road fer a week and apparently some kids decided to play on it... throttle wide open and stuck and jammed into high gear.... I never leave it in gear so i go ahead and whack the go button without lookin... standing on th ground of course, being the good skidder it is it fires right up and takes off fer the gate...
> 
> 
> Didn't get me cause muh grip on the wheel is stronger then some stupid tire but damn.. it twas close


Anyway to put some safety's on it and possibly a lock on the throttle?

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## Skeans

I think the alder won that battle two bars in one day all before noon.









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## 1270d

Skeans said:


> I think the alder won that battle two bars in one day all before noon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Ever try GB or gem bars? We've been using them on our bunchermoved with good results. Close to a hundred bucks a piece cheaper.


----------



## Skeans

1270d said:


> Ever try GB or gem bars? We've been using them on our bunchermoved with good results. Close to a hundred bucks a piece cheaper.


Yeah we use to use Gem but locally they are more expensive, seems like the last ones were under 300.

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## northmanlogging

So just about lost a self loader jockey and self loader today....

No pics no time

one of the fat ceders I've been cutting slipped on him today and ran into the control tower on the self loader... Pushing on the jib control therefore pushing harder on the tower...

By the time the dust settled the Log was parked on the loader seat and the controls where flattened, Jockey was able to jump clear... so no injuries

Had to squeeze the essavator in and lift the log off so he could drive the truck out from under it.

Spent a good hour or more ironing everything back out kinda...

Then another hour or so reloading the truck... had to use chains on 3 of the logs and give a little help with the Essavator for a couple of em.

Pretty skookum load when it was all said and done though, except for a couple little sticks to fill the gaps would have been a 5 log load.


----------



## rwoods

Glad no one was hurt. Ron


----------



## Skeans

Glad no one was hurt, is it time to maybe think about a grapple and heel here soon so there's not a repeat?

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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> So just about lost a self loader jockey and self loader today....
> 
> No pics no time
> 
> one of the fat ceders I've been cutting slipped on him today and ran into the control tower on the self loader... Pushing on the jib control therefore pushing harder on the tower...
> 
> By the time the dust settled the Log was parked on the loader seat and the controls where flattened, Jockey was able to jump clear... so no injuries
> 
> Had to squeeze the essavator in and lift the log off so he could drive the truck out from under it.
> 
> Spent a good hour or more ironing everything back out kinda...
> 
> Then another hour or so reloading the truck... had to use chains on 3 of the logs and give a little help with the Essavator for a couple of em.
> 
> Pretty skookum load when it was all said and done though, except for a couple little sticks to fill the gaps would have been a 5 log load.


https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/hvo/d/grapple-and-heel-rack-with/6222029883.html

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## northmanlogging

I saw that on FB...

There is only an issue with big f'ing logs normally the self loaders do just fine by me. 5 years or so now and this is the first issue while loading, a few issues with sketchy roads but that is different.

Getting a straight truck to come out is nearly impossible around here for a small guy like me, they want multiple loads a day and for weeks at a time... just not what I can produce, both in the type of work I do, and the equipment I have.

That grapple set up would be pretty sweet though, Still probably wouldn't be able to load a straight truck with it though, at least not safely, a 120 just doesn't have enough ass to load logs with, pulp and small stuff sure, anything over 32' and 2' dia gets interesting to pick up anything more then 6' away or so

I have been pondering a 200 class machine... There is a cat 225 loader in OR with a bad main pump they is asking 4500, but my usual argument strikes back (can i keep it in work... no, can I afford to move it... No) so I just ponder and wish, as I'm digging up ******* 5' dia ceder stumps...


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> I saw that on FB...
> 
> There is only an issue with big f'ing logs normally the self loaders do just fine by me. 5 years or so now and this is the first issue while loading, a few issues with sketchy roads but that is different.
> 
> Getting a straight truck to come out is nearly impossible around here for a small guy like me, they want multiple loads a day and for weeks at a time... just not what I can produce, both in the type of work I do, and the equipment I have.
> 
> That grapple set up would be pretty sweet though, Still probably wouldn't be able to load a straight truck with it though, at least not safely, a 120 just doesn't have enough ass to load logs with, pulp and small stuff sure, anything over 32' and 2' dia gets interesting to pick up anything more then 6' away or so
> 
> I have been pondering a 200 class machine... There is a cat 225 loader in OR with a bad main pump they is asking 4500, but my usual argument strikes back (can i keep it in work... no, can I afford to move it... No) so I just ponder and wish, as I'm digging up ******* 5' dia ceder stumps...


The 120's can load logs especially the built up ones. From personal experience our 135 will almost unload the log trailer the issue isn't that it can't pick it up more of it can't get the height to un bunk it. 5 foot cedar depending on how we a 200 class shovel will fight to pickup let alone the ancient 225's. The guy's that get straight trucks in for hire most of the time will pretty much a whole job before they get the truck to come in then load a truck afterwards they'll clean up till the truck returns.

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## northmanlogging

Making me wonder if that grapple set up will fit in the crummy...

But that would also mean driving in Oregon... and for me that's a roll of the dice.


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> Making me wonder if that grapple set up will fit in the crummy...
> 
> But that would also mean driving in Oregon... and for me that's a roll of the dice.



I'd keep going till I found a Hitachi 200, & trade your machine towards it.


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> But that would also mean driving in Oregon... and for me that's a roll of the dice.



Surely statute of limitations will run out sooner or later.


----------



## Skeans

hseII said:


> I'd keep going till I found a Hitachi 200, & trade your machine towards it.


Even a 200 needs the boom pins moved for lift height.

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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Making me wonder if that grapple set up will fit in the crummy...
> 
> But that would also mean driving in Oregon... and for me that's a roll of the dice.


Probably not nor would I want something like that in my bed that's a lot of weight on the small heel.

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## Skeans

Thank God it's vacation time 7 loads cut, buck, limbed, and hauled in 2 days now it's time to go play on the coast.

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## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> Surely statute of limitations will run out sooner or later.



Nope, no statute of limitations any more they gots rid if em in 08.. missed it by 2 months...

Stupid cops anyway...


----------



## madhatte

dang yo


----------



## northmanlogging

I could just call em up and pay the ****ing fine... but far as I'm concerned I did nothing wrong, and being stopped, searched and interrogated for 4 hours on the side of the road is more than enough payment for blowing a yellow light. #bluelivesmatter... or not...


----------



## madhatte

I fully understand. Principles are important.


----------



## northmanlogging

On a gifferent topic this is like 5 mi from home and one of my recent jobs was out near here...

This happened near lake roesiger http://q13fox.com/2017/07/26/snohom...c-accident-when-rotten-tree-falls-on-him/amp/


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> On a gifferent topic this is like 5 mi from home and one of my recent jobs was out near here...
> 
> This happened near lake roesiger http://q13fox.com/2017/07/26/snohom...c-accident-when-rotten-tree-falls-on-him/amp/


Link doesn't work

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## bitzer

Vacation? What the hell is that?


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Vacation? What the hell is that?


One of the few we do take and it's before we go start the next job

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## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> On a gifferent topic this is like 5 mi from home and one of my recent jobs was out near here...
> 
> This happened near lake roesiger http://q13fox.com/2017/07/26/snohom...c-accident-when-rotten-tree-falls-on-him/amp/



Tragic. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Link doesn't work
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Old guy went to cut a snag, snag won, wife found him.... not good


----------



## Gologit

Damn snags.


----------



## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> Damn snags.



I felled every one I could get to.


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> One of the few we do take and it's before we go start the next job
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I'm just messing with you. A guy has to take some time off. I've been taking a lot off this year in the form of rain days. The last planned vacation I went on was around the 4th and of course it dried up while I was gone and started raining as soon as I got back.


----------



## bitzer

Snags make me nervous and the current woods is full of em. Mostly dead elm that stay rock hard from 3' off the ground and up. The roots and bottom rot and they tip easy.


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Snags make me nervous and the current woods is full of em. Mostly dead elm that stay rock hard from 3' off the ground and up. The roots and bottom rot and they tip easy.



Ick...

Stay safe will ya...


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> I could just call em up and pay the ****ing fine... but far as I'm concerned I did nothing wrong, and being stopped, searched and interrogated for 4 hours on the side of the road is more than enough payment for blowing a yellow light. #bluelivesmatter... or not...


Hope when you go to renew your license they'll let you get it without paying.

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## rwoods

RandyMac said:


> I felled every one I could get to.



Of course the ones I come across are just babies, but I do the same. Woodpeckers still plentiful here. Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Of course the ones I come across are just babies, but I do the same. Woodpeckers still plentiful here. Ron


Glad I don't do state work they make you make them.

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## rwoods

The ones the peckers like to nest in here seem to be soft and don't stand long. Its the rock hard ones that bitzer mentioned that give me the willies. Sure RandyMac was talking much bigger stuff. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Hope when you go to renew your license they'll let you get it without paying.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Just a bench warrant out eugene or salem... from 98-99 can't even remember

had my license suspended once since then in WA renewed it dozens of times and just got my learners cdl so OR can literally piss up a rope.


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Just a bench warrant out eugene or salem... from 98-99 can't even remember



There's no way that can still be enforceable. I think?


----------



## northmanlogging

Not worth spending a night in jail to find out though.


----------



## bitzer

What about the hot baloney, eggs n gravy?


----------



## Skeans

Vacation on the coast Coos Bay to Spinreel















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## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Not worth spending a night in jail to find out though.



Fair enough.


----------



## northmanlogging

When ya go look at a job, and dude is dressed a certain way and has a certain haircut... then mentions that your logo is what caught their eye... and yer logo happens to be red and black and happens to share a certain font with a certain ********** ellement, that might happen to have stollen all your traditions and distorted them for their own veiws (or completely made up new definitions).

Not real sure i want that particullar job anyway


----------



## northmanlogging

Then i might be overreacting, either way steep cowface ground with some decent hardwood but nothin worth dying over


----------



## bitzer

Saw dust on the skid trail for the first time this year today. And Goddamnitcocksuckermother****ersonofbitchinbastard if it ain't downpourin right now


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Not real sure i want that particullar job anyway



I'm smellin' whatcher steppin' in


----------



## 1270d

bitzer said:


> Saw dust on the skid trail for the first time this year today. And Goddamnitcocksuckermother****ersonofbitchinbastard if it ain't downpourin right now



Though you were going to get some swamp tires?

We've had rain rain and more rain. And the roughest ground here. Either swamp or bluff. Tough going


----------



## RandyMac

Down to 20 watt smokeshine.


----------



## bitzer

1270d said:


> Though you were going to get some swamp tires?
> 
> We've had rain rain and more rain. And the roughest ground here. Either swamp or bluff. Tough going


It was a very serious thought. Either that or running duels. The cons I really considered were how wide of skid trails I would need, landings, etc. I also move around a lot. This summer I've had a bunch of 5 truckloads here, 10 there in little wood lots. All of them within a mile or two so I run the skidder down the road. But putting something 12' wide on a low boy might get interesting especially if I'm trailering every few weeks to a month. Ideally I'd like to have a second machine set up with swampers. That's not in the finances right now. In these little 10-20 acre woods spots would get pretty tight for that wide too. Idk. Definitely something I want to try though. 

Yeah even the high ground has been swamp here. It's ridiculous.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> Down to 20 watt smokeshine.
> View attachment 597097


Those potheads are getting pretty bad out there huh?


----------



## bitzer

On a lighter note I got to pull my transmission out of the skidder this morning. At least the ground was wet.


----------



## RandyMac

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/west/wfo/eka/h5-loop-vis.html


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> It was a very serious thought. Either that or running duels. The cons I really considered were how wide of skid trails I would need, landings, etc. I also move around a lot. This summer I've had a bunch of 5 truckloads here, 10 there in little wood lots. All of them within a mile or two so I run the skidder down the road. But putting something 12' wide on a low boy might get interesting especially if I'm trailering every few weeks to a month. Ideally I'd like to have a second machine set up with swampers. That's not in the finances right now. In these little 10-20 acre woods spots would get pretty tight for that wide too. Idk. Definitely something I want to try though.
> 
> Yeah even the high ground has been swamp here. It's ridiculous.


What about doing the tracks?

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----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> What about doing the tracks?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Will that do much for floating on 23.1 x 26s? I've got a single bunk remember. I hear they take about 15 minutes to throw on which would be awesome but the price is pretty high. At least from what I've seen.


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Will that do much for floating on 23.1 x 26s? I've got a single bunk remember. I hear they take about 15 minutes to throw on which would be awesome but the price is pretty high. At least from what I've seen.


It'd depend on the pattern, the width, and weight. I hear you on the price they are nuts but they do help especially with climbing. To put them on in 15 minutes has never been my experience before but running that 1210 you get the joy of doing the back and forth shuffle to tighten them up.

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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Will that do much for floating on 23.1 x 26s? I've got a single bunk remember. I hear they take about 15 minutes to throw on which would be awesome but the price is pretty high. At least from what I've seen.


Sounds like this is what you need https://forestryequipmentsales.com/16/Forwarders/149/Enviromax-Forwarder.html

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## 1270d

You'd be better off putting on bigger tires. Wheel tracks = rough ride. Good traction but not much in the way of flotation. Chains are a whole bunch cheaper if all you need is traction . 

We switched our single bunk 1010 from 600's to 700's (roughly 23.1 to 28L). It did help some and the width isn't obscene.

Today we put on one brand new set of eco tracks on our Buffalo and moved the old tracks to the front axle. One set of tracks and one set of chains isn't cutting it on our current site. To much mud on too many hills.


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## 1270d

bitzer said:


> Will that do much for floating on 23.1 x 26s? I've got a single bunk remember. I hear they take about 15 minutes to throw on which would be awesome but the price is pretty high. At least from what I've seen.




You'd definitely work up a strong sweat if you could do a set of tracks in 15 minutes. Did 4 tracks today, including shortening/tightening, in about 4 hours. That's with my dad helping.


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## Skeans

1270d said:


> You'd definitely work up a strong sweat if you could do a set of tracks in 15 minutes. Did 4 tracks today, including shortening/tightening, in about 4 hours. That's with my dad helping.


Man if I could do them in 15 minutes each I'd have a lot of days back. What tracks are guys running in the back?

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## 1270d

Skeans said:


> Man if I could do them in 15 minutes each I'd have a lot of days back. What tracks are guys running in the back?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



We just use the original eco tack grouser. With a single lug on each.

The only time I have managed 15 minutes is when they are new and kind of loose. A few times I've had to pull them to run the machine down the highway or some such. Then they go on super easy.


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## Skeans

1270d said:


> We just use the original eco tack grouser. With a single lug on each.
> 
> The only time I have managed 15 minutes is when they are new and kind of loose. A few times I've had to pull them to run the machine down the highway or some such. Then they go on super easy.


Oh ok most of us run scalps or the longer wider ones in the back and scalps in the front. I always hated pulling the tracks for the lowboy.

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## 1270d

These are what we've always run, kind of a happy medium between traction and flotation. What are scalps?


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## Skeans

1270d said:


> These are what we've always run, kind of a happy medium between traction and flotation. What are scalps?


A scalp is a lot more aggressive those style won't last here very long it's what most of us run in the front.

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## 1270d

Skeans said:


> A scalp is a lot more aggressive those style won't last here very long it's what most of us run in the front.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



They seem to last about 4000 hours on a forwarder. The rear set on my scorpion in the picture have over 18000 hours on them. Amazing how much longer they last on a harvester.


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## bitzer

1270d said:


> You'd definitely work up a strong sweat if you could do a set of tracks in 15 minutes. Did 4 tracks today, including shortening/tightening, in about 4 hours. That's with my dad helping.



That makes sense to me. The guy who told me that 15 minutes is most likely not even there when it happens. That's not much different timewise then for me putting chains on.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> That makes sense to me. The guy who told me that 15 minutes is most likely not even there when it happens. That's not much different timewise then for me putting chains on.


One thing I've noticed is you're not always having to tight them up like chains plus the traction difference is huge.

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## northmanlogging

Dispatches from the war dept...

"Loggers aren't know for they're accounting skills"

In regards to not having checks so we can pay the insurance and NAPA bills... (both of which outfits truly don't give a crap if yer a month late)


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## rwoods

My respect for you guys that do your own wrenching was recharged today. Other than a quick trip to TSC for cotter pins, I spent 14 hours straight installing a 3rd scv on my little Deere. A guy needs hands the size of a three year old with telescopic fingers to get everything in place. Still have about an hour or so of reassembly. Hope it works and without leaks.

Ron


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> My respect for you guys that do your own wrenching was recharged today. Other than a quick trip to TSC for cotter pins, I spent 14 hours straight installing a 3rd scv on my little Deere. A guy needs hands the size of a three year old with telescopic fingers to get everything in place. Still have about an hour or so of reassembly. Hope it works and without leaks.
> 
> Ron



A couple of extra elbow joints in each arm would be nice too. And maybe a couple of fingers with eyes on the end?


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## rwoods

Partly my fault trying to skip some dismantling. Only able to skip one part - the removal of the valve body. Tractor is so full of twigs, leaves, dirt and spiders, I didn't want to take it off and thankfully didn't have to. 

The control cable can only be installed with the valve body in place. Now Deere could have specified a length for the control cable but no they just furnished the final bell crank clearance (which was wrong btw). Spent a good two hours in a cycle of hit and miss installing, removing, adjusting and re-installing the control cable before I finally got the right length. But for my old ignition pliers, I would have never been able to install the cable. 

Gologit, your comments in the thread on skidding about letting a load go got me to rethinking my winch plan since the clutch on a worm drive is almost impossible to disengage under load. Considering a capstan set up that I can operate from the side. Not ideal but may be fine for my firewooding. I won't actually be skidding with the tractor just pulling tops to the road. Ron


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Gologit, your comments in the thread on skidding about letting a load go got me to rethinking my winch plan since the clutch on a worm drive is almost impossible to disengage under load. Considering a capstan set up that I can operate from the side. Not ideal but may be fine for my firewooding. I won't actually be skidding with the tractor just pulling tops to the road. Ron



That sounds like a good plan. Just using it for a yarder like that will probably be alright.
The ones that get my attention are the guys who use a farm tractor with a set of tongs mounted on a j-bar or an A-frame on the 3 point . Those are very unforgiving, especially if you raise the 3 point too high. 
I've never run skidder enough to have turned one over but I've had a couple of Cats on their side. One was a choker Cat, the other was a grapple. Both times it was pilot error, pure and simple. 
Both times it was late in the day and I was wanting to finish up the side so we could move everything to a new landing before we went home. I kept cutting corners and bonusing logs and hi-balling and getting away with it...until I didn't. I didn't get hurt too bad and both Cats were back on the game within an hour.
I knew better than to do what I was doing but everyone who logs for a living knows how easy it is to fall into that trap.
And, having to stop everything to get the other Cat or skidder to get your Cat turned upright really slows down production. Not to mention the guff you take from the rest of the crew.


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## northmanlogging

The 066 is a fun saw to run... but.

Fell one decent tree limbed and bucked aready out of gas...

Granted it was a tall, fat and somewhat limby tree but the 461 would still have enough in er to take 2 more trees...


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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Partly my fault trying to skip some dismantling. Only able to skip one part - the removal of the valve body. Tractor is so full of twigs, leaves, dirt and spiders, I didn't want to take it off and thankfully didn't have to.
> 
> The control cable can only be installed with the valve body in place. Now Deere could have specified a length for the control cable but no they just furnished the final bell crank clearance (which was wrong btw). Spent a good two hours in a cycle of hit and miss installing, removing, adjusting and re-installing the control cable before I finally got the right length. But for my old ignition pliers, I would have never been able to install the cable.
> 
> Gologit, your comments in the thread on skidding about letting a load go got me to rethinking my winch plan since the clutch on a worm drive is almost impossible to disengage under load. Considering a capstan set up that I can operate from the side. Not ideal but may be fine for my firewooding. I won't actually be skidding with the tractor just pulling tops to the road. Ron


Ron which style of winch is it a hydraulic or a PTO driven winch you were looking at?

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## rwoods

Skeans,

A small hydraulic worm drive - 8000 to 10000# 3/8" cable - similar to standard equipment on small rollbacks. Just for pulling stuff out of ravines. Bob's post about skidding winches got me to thinking about quickly dumping a load. Knowing me, I will winch a log bigger than I should and with a little side hill it will roll and flip my tractor in the process. My little tractor only weighs 4000# or so with loaded tires and weighted frontend. I was planning to thread the cable through my short boom for a little height but after thinking it through the added leverage to the log makes it even more likely to flip the tractor. With a capstan, I should be able to let go as soon as I detect a hazard. I'm not thrilled with using a rope nor the fact I have no way to lock a pull in position. If I didn't have other priorities, I would just buy a true three point hitch logging winch like our northern friends use for firewood gathering. If I had other priorities, I wouldn't need/want a winch as I wouldn't be selling my deuce to please my wife. It does a fair job of winching but it was a two man operation and difficult to maneuver and position.

As usual Bob is on the money about skidding with a tractor. I have a short boom (about 3 feet) to increase my lift range when skidding. I can easily pull a log heavier than the tractor but it only takes a log half the weigh of my tractor or less to take me sideway if that is where gravity wants the log to go. So I avoid side hills and spots with drop offs. Just making a sharp turn on flat ground with a 2000# log you can hear the stress on the little boom.

Ron


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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Skeans,
> 
> A small hydraulic worm drive - 8000 to 10000# 3/8" cable - similar to standard equipment on small rollbacks. Just for pulling stuff out of ravines. Bob's post about skidding winches got me to thinking about quickly dumping a load. Knowing me, I will winch a log bigger than I should and with a little side hill it will roll and flip my tractor in the process. My little tractor only weighs 4000# or so with loaded tires and weighted frontend. I was planning to thread the cable through my short boom for a little height but after thinking it through the added leverage to the log makes it even more likely to flip the tractor. With a capstan, I should be able to let go as soon as I detect a hazard. I'm not thrilled with using a rope nor the fact I have no way to lock a pull in position. If I didn't have other priorities, I would just buy a true three point hitch logging winch like our northern friends use for firewood gathering. If I had other priorities, I wouldn't need/want a winch as I wouldn't be selling my deuce to please my wife. It does a fair job of winching but it was a two man operation and difficult to maneuver and position.
> 
> As usual Bob is on the money about skidding with a tractor. I have a short boom (about 3 feet) to increase my lift range when skidding. I can easily pull a log heavier than the tractor but it only takes a log half the weigh of my tractor or less to take me sideway if that is where gravity wants the log to go. So I avoid side hills and spots with drop offs. Just making a sharp turn on flat ground with a 2000# log you can hear the stress on the little boom.
> 
> Ron


A local guy bought an old JD 450 cat winch and built a back blade setup like a Farmi he used for years it wasn't fast but always worked.

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## rwoods

Before my little 2010 life altering vascular incident, I was building a large skid mount hydraulic winch that I could transport and power both with my tractor (was going to install an aux pump equivalent to about 30hp) and my deuce. Using the tractor, the winch was to be chained to a tree or stump. Using the deuce, it was to be attached to the rear on lift arms. I have all the basic parts except the valve and hoses but I can no longer wrangle heavy stuff and expect to live - so it sits unfinished in the basement. This set up should be considerably lighter than a dozer winch but even at that it is now too heavy for me. I couldn't carry my snatch block very far before I would exceed my restrictions. 

That's a brand new hydraulic motor under the plastic. I have a new pump still in the box as well as a new spare motor for the deuce's front winch. All thanks to Uncle Sam - it's no wonder we run a national deficit.

Ron


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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Before my little 2010 life altering vascular incident, I was building a large skid mount hydraulic winch that I could transport and power both with my tractor (was going to install an aux pump equivalent to about 30hp) and my deuce. Using the tractor, the winch was to be chained to a tree or stump. Using the deuce, it was to be attached to the rear on lift arms. I have all the basic parts except the valve and hoses but I can no longer wrangle heavy stuff and expect to live - so it sits unfinished in the basement. This set up should be considerably lighter than a dozer winch but even at that it is now too heavy for me. I couldn't carry my snatch block very far before I would exceed my restrictions.
> 
> That's a brand new hydraulic motor under the plastic. I have a new pump still in the box as well as a new spare motor for the deuce's front winch. All thanks to Uncle Sam - it's no wonder we run a national deficit.
> 
> Ron
> 
> View attachment 606355
> View attachment 606356
> View attachment 606357


Ron I'd bet that winch is heavier and bigger then a small cat winch from the looks plus these are PTO driven. The Pud guys here use the rope winches and love them a few guys use them for big elk as well out here but they all say they're limited pretty quick. How steep is the ground you're looking at doing?

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## rwoods

I figured CAT used cast steel for the winch housing. This one is aluminum. Anyway it is too heavy for me. 

The ravines I am talking about are too steep for a tractor but relatively shallow 50 to 100'. 

Before all our children arrived, I had an even smaller tractor. I mounted an 8000# worm drive winch to a box blade and replaced the electric motor with a small high speed hydraulic motor. The box blade made a very stable platform. Using a series of double pulleys I was able to pull small stumps to clear a backyard. Very slow but worked great until I pulled the worm gear through the cast aluminum housing. Had to sell my tractor and related stuff to provide for another arrival. Kids are all grown now. If I had a box blade I would built another one for simplicity sake.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

The Gyppo Yarder (tm) is just 2 old tulsa winches hooked to a 10hp Tacumsa borrowed from a rototiller.

all mounted on a trailer frame, holds about 200' of 1/2" on the one side.

Slower then grandparents in january but it will pull some ridiculous wood, somewhere in my archives there is a pick of it lifting and moving a 36" 32' maple log, other then scaring everyone around with the rigging it didn't even blink at it.

Originally I had it mounted to the ole 9n where it promptly tacoed on the first log... ran it like that for 6 weeks... single drum with pto shaft on a trailer. Was a pulling beast but utterly week for the job.

If I had it to do all over again, I think a modern tractor skidding winch is the way to go... but then the yarder bought me a skidder and has sat in the back yard unused and collecting rust ever since. I keep thinking about reworking it and putting a little 2-3 cyl diesel with a 3-4 speed trans, a proper clutch and brakes of some sort and putting it to work again, buy why? There are old yarders that work better and hold more line for reasonable prices. Though with 30-40 hp and a couple gears it could be a viable option.


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## rwoods

If I have already told this on myself here just ignore me. Speaking of weight and my ignorance, when I was shopping for the winch in my pictures I came across one still in the crate, or so I thought. I was thrilled when I won the bid somewhere south of $500. Like is customary on the military forum I then frequented, I posted a picture of my "win" (a shot looking down into the crate). I was quickly informed to the amusement of all but me that I had purchased a 40,000# hydraulic drag winch with 1" cable and to top it off it does not have a clutch - i.e. it won't freewheel - thus there was no way I could operate it by myself. All 1100#+ of it was mine and the removal clock was ticking. Fortunately I found someone who actually wanted a 40,000# drag winch and I worked a trade without ever touching the thing. Though thoroughly embarrassed, I was thankful that the folks who knew set me straight. I would have been in a heck of a bind to have arrived to find something that I couldn't transport.


Ron


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## Skeans

Too bad we don't have more of these here in the states I've seen smaller versions with winches on the back, we have one of these Farmi's and it comes in handy for more then just loading logs.
http://farmiforest.fi/product/farmi-90/

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## northmanlogging

But Bees...


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## northmanlogging

and more bees

stung twice today


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> and more bees
> 
> stung twice today


Only stung twice? I've had to take guy's to the hospital for getting stung so many times Benadryl barely helps without allergies, man up. We've all been chased around by hives it's part of life, now if you piss off an underground nest yes that can get serious that's a good reason to have a partner if you live through it.

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## northmanlogging

descriptive process... relax fer ****s sake.

6th bees nest on this job. 

Bee Bopper is spensive.


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## northmanlogging

The more intriguing bit is when the saw your running is running like poo, but suddenly decides its going to idle until it runs out of fuel, only because Bees.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> descriptive process... relax fer ****s sake.
> 
> 6th bees nest on this job.
> 
> Bee Bopper is spensive.


Matt I've worked jobs with worst then that grow up it's part of logging you mark them when you walk the job if you find them that's normal. Bee booper is normal carry for a faller if it's too expensive well maybe look at a lathe again I'm sorry but I don't have any sympathy for you, you won't even support the community that helps keep you working with lawsuits against environmentalists ect.

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## northmanlogging

How does a simple comment of BEES, turn into guilting me into feeling bad about a lawsuit I know nothing about?

its supposed to be a comic relieve thing, imagine my fat ass running and screaming... but no you have to be an ass about it.


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## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> descriptive process... relax fer ****s sake.
> 
> 6th bees nest on this job.
> 
> Bee Bopper is spensive.



Well stop trying to get their honey.


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## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> How does a simple comment of BEES, turn into guilting me into feeling bad about a lawsuit I know nothing about?
> 
> its supposed to be a comic relieve thing, imagine my fat ass running and screaming... but no you have to be an ass about it.



Bees: it’s the Bees Fault.


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## rwoods

Hey, NM, I got a 10 ton winch I'll sell you. Wrap the cable around your waist with a radio remote just hit the reel me in button and you got all your limbs to fight the bees while being dragged to safety. Just don't forget to hit the stop button.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

You sayin i'm fat?


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## rwoods

Not at all, I just don't want to part with my smaller winch. Ron


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## rwoods

After all of my head scratching on worm drive versus capstan, a small two speed planetary "fell into my lap" this week while on a business trip. Economics and the fact that I can't weld with a drill and a sawzall pushed me to go with the planetary. Here are two pictures of my Swiss army knife set up. The only thing bolted on is the winch. The little swivel hook is for grabbing my 3 point hitch log splitter. I was trying to use existing holes so my boom to winch clearance is a tad off. I will have to make a 1/2" spacer to raise the boom off the winch - the aluminum bar is just there for the photo. I will get the hydraulic lines installed this week. I made the guard on the tractor from a galvanized shelf I scrounged from the scrap yard. 

Ron


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## northmanlogging

So...

I got a call today whilst eatin muh lunch.

Twas the boss man at the "real job"


Guess I'm just a dumb logger afterall
.


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## rwoods

Assume you had to chose. Hope the best for you. Ron


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## northmanlogging

No choice, though i really don't care anymore, Logging is getting to the point i just can't keep up at 4 days a week anyway, having 5-6 to get some production done and still have a weekend is looking really ****ing nice right now.


And I've been sick of machining for several years now, its just a thing i do to make money, and the people are getting dumber every year... (blah blah blah I'm old, but no really the machines do all the work now, so thinking is unnecessary...)


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## woodfarmer

So I flooded the log splitter engine, then I think I’ve cross threaded the plug threads on the engine as I don’t have those three year old hands, crap!!!


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## northmanlogging

I made a new friend today, fallows me around mimicking everything i do, never makes a noise and only stands on my north side


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## rwoods

I bet he hangs with you even when you drop something on him. Or say something less than civil.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

couldn't shake him all day... and there was a ceder that was hung up bad... lots of less then civil words and actions, but he stayed right there with me.


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## chucker

it's a good thing northy to have a close friend you cant scare away .... to bad they hide when the sun goes down or it's cloudy?


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## chucker

another good thing about your friend is he's a great listener.. never says a word or argue your point of view... lol kinda like a "YES PERSON"..... ? "NO" ??


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## woodfarmer

I’ve been thinking about picking up an old john Deere skidder, however today was 20* blowing 4 inches of snow and I was warm and toasty inside my tractor cab.


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## northmanlogging

don't do it, next thing you know you'll be telling folks how much you like the fresh air in the open cage of an ancient skidder, and the permanently grease and oil stained hands from wrenching on it, how good a welder you've become, and the jaggers aren't as big a deal as them HaxeMen dildo's say they are.


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## SliverPicker

I love my open cab. It makes it easier to hear the wind blowing through the holes in my head.


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## northmanlogging

So I'm taking cdl A classes...

Double clutching is the dumbest most inefficient bull **** ever

Rant over


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## SliverPicker

I got my CDL A permit a year ago, but the truck test was going to cost me $5500. They wonder why there's a shortage of truckers.


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## SliverPicker

northmanlogging said:


> So I'm taking cdl A classes...
> 
> Double clutching is the dumbest most inefficient bull **** ever
> 
> Rant over



I'm told some instructors won't pass you unless you double clutch. Period.


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## northmanlogging

SliverPicker said:


> I'm told some instructors won't pass you unless you double clutch. Period.


Here its just points on a test, but I figure I'm going to need as many as possible so I may as well learn it...

its tough with the gimpy leg, but I'll get er, I don't have a whole lot of control of my left... its mostly a meat hook for my shoes to hang off of.

Out here you have to either provide proof of on the job training, X # hours etc, or take one of many CDL courses that run around 4k for 6 weeks of skooling.

Then pay another $250 to take the test...

Its not cheap by any means, but then the fine for dragging a trailer behind my little dump truck is $10000, and I loose my license for a year, pull it off twice, and never get a CDL of any kind. 

Figure since I need the license anyway, I may as well pony up and get the full CDL A, and be legal to drive what the **** ever I wan't, I may have went ahead and gone for tanker and doubles endorsement... but I don't remember

The skools are pretty legit BTW, flexible on hours you show up, help getting the permit, dot physicals, use their truck to test in, all the pain in the **** stuff for a gyppo like me, granted i got the permit on my own as I was planning on cheating and just barrowing a truck and having said owner sign off on the paperwork, but then we both got busy, and I realized if I wanted to actually pass, I would need to like actually drive said truck for more then 3 hours, and do the walk around and in cab... Test is like 2 hours of recital and half an hour of driving.


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## SliverPicker

Yeah, I spent about $280 for the written tests and the DOT physical. The driving school would have been $5500. This was for a winter-only job with the Colorado Dept. of Transportation driving a plow. $18 per hour. No benefits and no commitment to rehire you next season. They used to hire for that position with just the permit then allow you to get on-the-job training to get the full CDL. They won't do that anymore because some guy "screwed them over" three years ago by having them do the training and then not coming back the next year. They expected the guy to be unemployed all summer and then come back for $18 for 6 months? Their new hiring policy has resulted in the position not being filled for three years running. Two friends of mine work at the local CDOT garage. The two of them accounted for around $4000 in overtime in December alone last year because CDOT didn't fill the temp position. Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. The managers there don't care. It's just taxpayer money. As long as they don't get "screwed over" it's all good. Joke.

That would have been a good gig for me. Log all summer and drive a plow all winter. Hand cutting trees in 3-5 feet of snow in February can get a bit tiresome. Tiresome, but at least the production is high...


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## northmanlogging

I figure worst case the dump truck outfits around here always need drivers, pay isn't terrible, and it gets more experience and connections,

Log trucks need drivers too, but them guys are a little pickier about who drives for em, want experience and shizz.

Absolute werst case long haul... but **** that... I'm sitting in a sleeper cab now... barely enough room to stand or turn around, and it's the biggest one on the lot


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## northmanlogging

That and I figure I have 10 15 years of logging in me, by then I'd like to have me a self loader, and retire doing that


----------



## Ted Jenkins

Back in the 70's got a job working for a contractor that had several backhoes and a dump truck to pull them around. I was to keep everything running and clean. Although I knew all about the engines had not a clue into how to go up a hill or down one and here we have hills and nothing else. I had a C license with zero experience and an out of State licence for two years on top of it. Just started driving around. On one particular day boss called wants a ford 755 backhoe delivered some place so loaded it up and proceed to the destination. Was tacking out in third gear going down a hill and was thinking this thing feels kinda heavy maybe time to use a little brake. By the time I get to the bottom I was pushing my foot through the floor board and then it dawned on me that this is why you have to have a special licence and some knowledge. Every year we have school buses tour buses and large trucks go over the sides of the roadway killing most on board. A week later a co worker was arrested with a marginal driver license and guess who goes to pick up the truck and trailer with a out of state drivers licence. The CHP said that this guy was driving weird, but I was OK because he saw me driving around.

Not long after I found a crawler and dump truck from some one I knew so I started driving it. While it was parked some one threw a couple of rocks through the wind shield, but kept on driving it for year until I finally said enough already and applies for A California licence with all the endorsements. Come to find out that I needed to have my trailer inspected along with my truck so that took about six months to get every thing up to standards. In all this never got pulled over once and now I am glad cause probably would have gone to jail. Soon I had the test setup and went through it and nervously waited and then my tester came and congratulated me in that I was one of three that had passed every single aspect with 100%. So to celebrate I went up to central California and to fill my truck and trailer to the brim with wood and headed home. As it turns out I had 45,000 lbs of wood headed up to 6,000 feet where I live as I go the scales the oficier yells out the window as says a little heavy isn't and I nod. I have still maintained all DOT requirements without any meds, but some day when I can not get much older I will have to retire. Thanks


----------



## SliverPicker

northmanlogging said:


> That and I figure I have 10 15 years of logging in me, by then I'd like to have me a self loader, and retire doing that



That's some big hours you will have to log. 12 hours is a short day where I grew up. It's 12 hours if everything goes perfectly. Nothing ever goes perfectly when hauling logs out of landing in the land of snow and ice.


----------



## 1270d

SliverPicker said:


> That's some big hours you will have to log. 12 hours is a short day where I grew up. It's 12 hours if everything goes perfectly. Nothing ever goes perfectly when hauling logs out of landing in the land of snow and ice.




A twelve hours day for a trucker? Seems almost unheard of.


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## northmanlogging

Most... of the self loader jockeys out here are up at 5 or 6, first load in at 6am, last unload at or before 4 pm, then sometimes go get another to have one ready in the morning. Say home by 6... 

I'm totally ok with this


----------



## northmanlogging

its not unheard of for the straight truck guys to be on the road at 4am, and home around 6pm, they tend to have farther to go then the self loaders, being they run to the big logging shows, getting 5-6 loads per truck off of one sale in a day... 20 30 loads a day total for some of em.


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## bitzer

My trucker is usually up at 1:30-2 am. Gets to the shop, checks truck over, fuels, fixes stuff if need be. Gets on the road by 3 down by me by 5. Hauls a load of firewood somewhere down by me then back to the job to grab logs to go to the mill. Usually a short haul somewhere up there For the afternoon load and back to the mill. He shoots for being home about 5pm.


----------



## Skeans

The straight trucks I've always been around start at 2 or 3 check the truck on the road before 4, a few I know said their first loads are at 1 am.

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## SliverPicker

1270d said:


> A twelve hours day for a trucker? Seems almost unheard of.



Do you mean they work less than that or more?

My comment was going off of what the drivers used to tell me when I worked at the Sawyer mill. The guy (Marc) that offered me that driver's job out of White Pine said it would be 60+ hours per week too. 

The guys around here don't seem to put in anywhere near that many hours.


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## Ted Jenkins

When I was making great money hauling I was home about once a month. I stayed in the truck pretty much 24-7. Your maximum work week for most part is 60 hours with few exceptions unless you mess with your log. There are always tires to change and lenses to be replaced which makes for long weeks. Thanks


----------



## Skeans

Ted Jenkins said:


> When I was making great money hauling I was home about once a month. I stayed in the truck pretty much 24-7. Your maximum work week for most part is 60 hours with few exceptions unless you mess with your log. There are always tires to change and lenses to be replaced which makes for long weeks. Thanks


Hard to mess with the logs now that they're electronic.

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Hard to mess with the logs now that they're electronic.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



We still have a little over a year to be compliant with that. It sucks. I'm usually on the Fringe of the milage range.


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## Ted Jenkins

I have family members just East Of Palm Springs. So I drive the I-10 often. It has been awhile since I had to go through the scales going to or from Phoenix. Along that stretch of freeway in just the past year or two there have been at least 50 truck related deaths. Not long ago I remember when a bus driver who was sleep deprived ran into a truck driver who was asleep at the wheel killed 14 people. Yes they were way past their logged hours. It is rare that I have to deal with too many logged hours. Since being at my age I look forward to getting drowsy and looking for a nice nap area. When being a little younger the schedule was everything and I drove as long as I could pin my eyes open. Meeting the schedule that the scales keep was all that was important. Get into the wrong scales at the wrong time could cost big time. Several days of lost revenue and or several days of setbacks. Thanks


----------



## Jhenderson

bitzer said:


> We still have a little over a year to be compliant with that. It sucks. I'm usually on the Fringe of the milage range.


How do you get an extra year?


----------



## northmanlogging

Fergot to mention I watched the self loader jockey back into the sight, unload trailer, load an entire load of Doug for, throw most of the binders and drive off...

All while having an argument on the phone, running half the loader with an elbow, notably missing all the fangers of his strong hand


----------



## 1270d

SliverPicker said:


> Do you mean they work less than that or more?
> 
> My comment was going off of what the drivers used to tell me when I worked at the Sawyer mill. The guy (Marc) that offered me that driver's job out of White Pine said it would be 60+ hours per week too.
> 
> The guys around here don't seem to put in anywhere near that many hours.




Oh yeah I meant it sounds short. Lots of them leave home around 3-4 am and don't make it home till 6. Quite often they are running 16-18 hours. Then there is the part nobody sees when they have to grease, fix hoses, brakes and other maintenance. No wonder not many guys want to get into it. 

In another note, the e log rules will effectively cripple our timber industry unless there is some sort of intrastate exemption or agricultural exemption. There is simply no way that our drivers will be able to make two trips a day in many cases. This will result in a massive shortage of trucking power. Unless the Mills double the trucking rate. Hard to believe they will but time will tell.


----------



## Skeans

1270d said:


> Oh yeah I meant it sounds short. Lots of them leave home around 3-4 am and don't make it home till 6. Quite often they are running 16-18 hours. Then there is the part nobody sees when they have to grease, fix hoses, brakes and other maintenance. No wonder not many guys want to get into it.
> 
> In another note, the e log rules will effectively cripple our timber industry unless there is some sort of intrastate exemption or agricultural exemption. There is simply no way that our drivers will be able to make two trips a day in many cases. This will result in a massive shortage of trucking power. Unless the Mills double the trucking rate. Hard to believe they will but time will tell.


Here some of the guys have had them in the trucks for a few years, seems like there's an exemption for a single truck or single driver setup I'll have to ask again.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

A bad day
An inch of rain since the night before so the forwarder needs pulled up a hill.
3:30 or so ground is soft as hell should of quit 5 minutes before, but no I need to get these last two little under story firs out photos say the rest. The old girl took a skating lesson on an old growth stump that was soft with a 2 foot drop off.
Best part lesson learned look down more often before swinging back up from the finals.












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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> A bad day
> An inch of rain since the night before so the forwarder needs pulled up a hill.
> 3:30 or so ground is soft as hell should of quit 5 minutes before, but no I need to get these last two little under story firs out photos say the rest. The old girl took a skating lesson on an old growth stump that was soft with a 2 foot drop off.
> Best part lesson learned look down more often before swinging back up from the finals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Bummer, you folks going to get er righted on her own or will you need support


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Bummer, you folks going to get er righted on her own or will you need support


She's back up on her own feet again as of this afternoon, as of right now damage is almost nothing just a bent screen on the upper house and lost some engine oil that was due for a change Friday afternoon. Recovery took a D4H, a 135 Kobelco, then a 1210B for a little extra pull but it came back over easy.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Jhenderson

doesnt sound easy to me. Surely not as easy as going bottom up.


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## SliverPicker

1270d said:


> Oh yeah I meant it sounds short. Lots of them leave home around 3-4 am and don't make it home till 6. Quite often they are running 16-18 hours. Then there is the part nobody sees when they have to grease, fix hoses, brakes and other maintenance. No wonder not many guys want to get into it.
> 
> In another note, the e log rules will effectively cripple our timber industry unless there is some sort of intrastate exemption or agricultural exemption. There is simply no way that our drivers will be able to make two trips a day in many cases. This will result in a massive shortage of trucking power. Unless the Mills double the trucking rate. Hard to believe they will but time will tell.



This is exactly how I was told it went. That's normal operating. There's normal operating then there's Break Up. Then they really put in the hours. Dean once told me that his record week during break up was 125 hours. That's nuts.


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## SliverPicker

Skeans, did you least least repaint that belly pan while she was on her ear?


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## Skeans

SliverPicker said:


> Skeans, did you least least repaint that belly pan while she was on her ear?


She never had paint down there I remember the day we got the old girl state of the art at the time amazing how stuff has changed.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

Jhenderson said:


> doesnt sound easy to me. Surely not as easy as going bottom up.


It only took light pulling power honestly, going over is an experience that's for sure.

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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> It only took light pulling power honestly, going over is an experience that's for sure.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I'll have to take yer weed fer it


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## Tannerbob

How many miles do the log trucks have from the landings to the mills. I know that changes with jobs and I don't live in an area with a logging industry but I assumed that would be considered local hauling. Anything in a hundred mile radius doesn't have to use e logs or engines that have a pre 2000 manufacturing date are also exempt. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> I'll have to take yer weed fer it


We tied to the highest point on the track frames so the pull was straight down, if our D7 was running that would of done it by itself.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

Tannerbob said:


> How many miles do the log trucks have from the landings to the mills. I know that changes with jobs and I don't live in an area with a logging industry but I assumed that would be considered local hauling. Anything in a hundred mile radius doesn't have to use e logs or engines that have a pre 2000 manufacturing date are also exempt.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm at 75 miles round trip and that's considered a short haul.

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## bitzer

Jhenderson said:


> How do you get an extra year?


I was told we have until Feb of 2019 to comply. I have documentation from head of state troopers.


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## Jhenderson

bitzer said:


> I was told we have until Feb of 2019 to comply. I have documentation from head of state troopers.



That's good for you, but it doesn't explain how and why you get special dispensation from Federal Law which was my question.


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## bitzer

Jhenderson said:


> That's good for you, but it doesn't explain how and why you get special dispensation from Federal Law which was my question.


Wow you're kind of a dickhead. You get three years from the time your state adopts the law. I don't know all the jargon just that we don't need to be compliant until '19. And I'm sure by then our boys in the timber lobby will figure out a way around it.


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## Jhenderson

Kiss your mother with that mouth? 3 years doesn't match the implementation date either. Sence all the trucking news is saying 12/18/17 I'd like to understand why you're different. Maybe if you'd tell us where you live I could research it myself . You're obviously not capable of explaining it.


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## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Wow you're kind of a dickhead. You get three years from the time your state adopts the law. I don't know all the jargon just that we don't need to be compliant until '19. And I'm sure by then our boys in the timber lobby will figure out a way around it.



Did you guys get the agricultural exemption? Logging is classed as " seasonal agricultural harvesting" in California and a whole different set of rules apply. The HOS for truckers, as long as you're running intra-state, have been increased providing you're running from the woods to the mill. They call it "hauling from point of harvest to first point of manufacture". Once the logs are sawn or chipped the usual HOS rules apply.
I don't know about an ag extention for the ELD but I'll check and see.

LOL...the timber lobbyists really had a brain storm with that idea.


----------



## Skeans

Gologit said:


> Did you guys get the agricultural exemption? Logging is classed as " seasonal agricultural harvesting" in California and a whole different set of rules apply. The HOS for truckers, as long as you're running intra-state, have been increased providing you're running from the woods to the mill. They call it "hauling from point of harvest to first point of manufacture". Once the logs are sawn or chipped the usual HOS rules apply.
> I don't know about an ag extention for the ELD but I'll check and see.
> 
> LOL...the timber lobbyists really had a brain storm with that idea.


Oregon I know it's not considered an Agricultural use they sent a max number of years before harvest, my saving is the age of trucks a '96 & '97. Having said that though what's a 150 to 500 for the ELD when scales alone just cost us 3k for one truck I'd hate to have to buy a new truck, new gear, new electronics anymore a company we know just set up two new trucks a mule train 8 axle total and a 8 axle long logger with a new rack on it almost 700k that's nuts.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

I may be wrong... Hel I probably am, but way i understand it if you are intrastate hauling you are exempt from log books here in wa, unless you travel more then 150 miles from home in a day, radius not actual miles.

but then you don't get to claim intrastate if your cargo is destined to leave the state, hence if you haul to the ports, or mills that ship outside the state, then you have to be classified interstate and jump through the bs of log books, and dot physicals every other year.

As far as electronic log books being required, I've heard rumors but nothing solid yet, bet yer ass that most of the loggers around here will eat the fine rather then spend money on electronic gizmo's that may or may not be compatible with their trucks. Or for that matter buy a new truck just to be compatible with a ridiculous law.


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## Tannerbob

Anything older than 2000 on engines manufactured date is exempt from elogs. 96 and 97 I wouldn't worry about it. This has brought the value of older trucks up a bunch


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## Skeans

Tannerbob said:


> Anything older than 2000 on engines manufactured date is exempt from elogs. 96 and 97 I wouldn't worry about it. This has brought the value of older trucks up a bunch
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Till the state gets to be like California which is coming the governor has already said we will surpass Cali for emissions standards I wouldn't be surprised if Washington isn't far behind.

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## Tannerbob

And that I wouldn't know anything about. Haven't driven in California in probably 15 years but I feel for you if they're wanting to get that bad


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## Jhenderson

northmanlogging said:


> I may be wrong... Hel I probably am, but way i understand it if you are intrastate hauling you are exempt from log books here in wa, unless you travel more then 150 miles from home in a day, radius not actual miles.
> 
> but then you don't get to claim intrastate if your cargo is destined to leave the state, hence if you haul to the ports, or mills that ship outside the state, then you have to be classified interstate and jump through the bs of log books, and dot physicals every other year.
> 
> As far as electronic log books being required, I've heard rumors but nothing solid yet, bet yer ass that most of the loggers around here will eat the fine rather then spend money on electronic gizmo's that may or may not be compatible with their trucks. Or for that matter buy a new truck just to be compatible with a ridiculous law.



Your correct about intrastate and 150 air miles radius. You also need to be home every night. Those are the provisions I operate under. Saves DOT compliance audits in my state. Not so sure about the fine. Hours of service rules include an " out of service" penalty if you can't prove time in service. Being sidelined is costly, not to mention ramping up fines for subsequent violations. This is another reason for running pre 2000 model equipment.


----------



## bitzer

Jhenderson said:


> Kiss your mother with that mouth? 3 years doesn't match the implementation date either. Sence all the trucking news is saying 12/18/17 I'd like to understand why you're different. Maybe if you'd tell us where you live I could research it myself . You're obviously not capable of explaining it.


. 
Here ya go ****stick. You have one hell of a way to get around in the world. 
Who the hell are you anyway?


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Did you guys get the agricultural exemption? Logging is classed as " seasonal agricultural harvesting" in California and a whole different set of rules apply. The HOS for truckers, as long as you're running intra-state, have been increased providing you're running from the woods to the mill. They call it "hauling from point of harvest to first point of manufacture". Once the logs are sawn or chipped the usual HOS rules apply.
> I don't know about an ag extention for the ELD but I'll check and see.
> 
> LOL...the timber lobbyists really had a brain storm with that idea.




I know they're working that angle and I'm sure they'll figure it out. Just more fun to add to doing business.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> I may be wrong... Hel I probably am, but way i understand it if you are intrastate hauling you are exempt from log books here in wa, unless you travel more then 150 miles from home in a day, radius not actual miles.
> 
> but then you don't get to claim intrastate if your cargo is destined to leave the state, hence if you haul to the ports, or mills that ship outside the state, then you have to be classified interstate and jump through the bs of log books, and dot physicals every other year.
> 
> As far as electronic log books being required, I've heard rumors but nothing solid yet, bet yer ass that most of the loggers around here will eat the fine rather then spend money on electronic gizmo's that may or may not be compatible with their trucks. Or for that matter buy a new truck just to be compatible with a ridiculous law.




$2k for not having the device in the truck.


----------



## Gologit

Tannerbob said:


> And that I wouldn't know anything about. Haven't driven in California in probably 15 years but I feel for you if they're wanting to get that bad
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Haven't driven in California in 15 years? Count yourself lucky.


----------



## Jhenderson

bitzer said:


> .
> Here ya go ****stick. You have one hell of a way to get around in the world.
> Who the hell are you anyway?
> 
> View attachment 620274



I was looking for information. Period. So rather than say the grace period is only for those operating under the intrastate exemption you chose to use vulgar language and accusatory rhetoric. And I'm the jerk? You'd better take a long look in the mirror.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> I may be wrong... Hel I probably am, but way i understand it if you are intrastate hauling you are exempt from log books here in wa, unless you travel more then 150 miles from home in a day, radius not actual miles.
> 
> but then you don't get to claim intrastate if your cargo is destined to leave the state, hence if you haul to the ports, or mills that ship outside the state, then you have to be classified interstate and jump through the bs of log books, and dot physicals every other year.
> 
> As far as electronic log books being required, I've heard rumors but nothing solid yet, bet yer ass that most of the loggers around here will eat the fine rather then spend money on electronic gizmo's that may or may not be compatible with their trucks. Or for that matter buy a new truck just to be compatible with a ridiculous law.




It's a mess and it just makes it even harder for a small guy to do business.

A friend of mine has a lumber truck and hauls mainly in California. _Intra_ state, right? He unloaded in LA a couple of weeks ago and picked up a load of sacked fertilizer to come back north. He loaded the fertilizer in LA but the load originated in Texas. That made it, according to the ticket he got, _the furtherance of an inter state load._ He got popped at the first scales he came to for being over HOS. Under California rules he still had a couple of hours to run on his logbook but that load of sacks put him over hours. The fine was just over a thousand dollars. The cops watch for this kind of thing and they're dialed in.

As far as eating the fine for no ELD goes, I don't think a guy with his own truck can afford it. He might choke down the first one but like all fines the costs will escalate with each occurance. Since loggers run in a relatively small geographic area the cops will catch on pretty quick who's in compliance and who's not.

Staying within 100 or 150 air miles might work but I think you're also limited to a certain number hours a day to qualify for that exemption.

What log truckers, or any small trucking outfit absolutely don't need are more obstacles in their path. Most of them are just making wages and any little glitch will set them back, sometimes too far to recover.

There are a lot of trucks for sale in California. A lot of guys are just giving up and getting out before the government digs the hole any deeper.


----------



## Gologit

Jhenderson said:


> And I'm the jerk?




Yup.


----------



## Bwildered

Gologit said:


> Yup.


I don't think so, the guy clearly asked for clarification & all he got back was the usual idiotic abusive stuff from the usual suspects which appeared to only applied to one state, which the usual suspects think constitutes the world


----------



## bitzer

Jhenderson said:


> I was looking for information. Period. So rather than say the grace period is only for those operating under the intrastate exemption you chose to use vulgar language and accusatory rhetoric. And I'm the jerk? You'd better take a long look in the mirror.




How about hey you have any more info on that? You came off as an asshat. Sounded like my kids talking to each other. Vulgar language? You should come to work with me. Twice this week I had to pack 10 gallons of fluid half mile thru the woods to the skidder. Wednesday was hydraulic and today was coolant. It was a ***** of a week. I told the Forester yesterday if I don't tip the skidder over on this one or lose an eye I will be surprised. Sure enough almost tipped her today. So if ya wanna be civil and talk normal we can do that. If ya wanna be a douchebag then be a douchebag. I really don't care.


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> It's a mess and it just makes it even harder for a small guy to do business.
> 
> A friend of mine has a lumber truck and hauls mainly in California. _Intra_ state, right? He unloaded in LA a couple of weeks ago and picked up a load of sacked fertilizer to come back north. He loaded the fertilizer in LA but the load originated in Texas. That made it, according to the ticket he got, _the furtherance of an inter state load._ He got popped at the first scales he came to for being over HOS. Under California rules he still had a couple of hours to run on his logbook but that load of sacks put him over hours. The fine was just over a thousand dollars. The cops watch for this kind of thing and they're dialed in.
> 
> As far as eating the fine for no ELD goes, I don't think a guy with his own truck can afford it. He might choke down the first one but like all fines the costs will escalate with each occurance. Since loggers run in a relatively small geographic area the cops will catch on pretty quick who's in compliance and who's not.
> 
> Staying within 100 or 150 air miles might work but I think you're also limited to a certain number hours a day to qualify for that exemption.
> 
> What log truckers, or any small trucking outfit absolutely don't need are more obstacles in their path. Most of them are just making wages and any little glitch will set them back, sometimes too far to recover.
> 
> There are a lot of trucks for sale in California. A lot of guys are just giving up and getting out before the government digs the hole any deeper.



60 hours/week or 14 hours a day is what I heard. Have to take a 30 minute break away from the truck. Home every night. We are thinking we will have to put in a yard somewhere between me and the mill where we can stage logs and then have the point of origin there where the trucker sleeps in a hotel until the logs make it to the mill.


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> I don't think so, the guy clearly asked for clarification & all he got back was the usual idiotic abusive stuff from the usual suspects which appeared to only applied to one state, which the usual suspects think constitutes the world




The prognosticator of prognosticators


----------



## Jhenderson

You had a bad day. Everybody does. No excuse. As mother would tell you, " wherever ignorance predominates, vulgarity invariably asserts itself."


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> The prognosticator of prognosticators


Err ! It happened & you made it happen.


----------



## northmanlogging

Jhenderson said:


> You had a bad day. Everybody does. No excuse. As mother would tell you, " wherever ignorance predominates, vulgarity invariably asserts itself."



Damn dude,

You may have noticed that this younger generation took to vulgarity like a duck to water.

Our parents tried... they did, but I learned my best **** from my mom so? Still hate Tabasco though.

In the end its just words, adjectives if you will.

But what do I know I was raised by bikers, loggers, Felons and wolfs


----------



## Skeans

Bwildered said:


> Err ! It happened & you made it happen.


Oh yes d bag is at it again yes you BW.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Bwildered

Skeans said:


> Oh yes d bag is at it again yes you BW.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Did you get caught out taking tripe again? Have a machine upended by an idiot you couldn't sack? Dog eat your favourite hat? Something must have happened for you back the wrong nag in the race.


----------



## bitzer

Jhenderson said:


> You had a bad day. Everybody does. No excuse. As mother would tell you, " wherever ignorance predominates, vulgarity invariably asserts itself."




You want info then ask for it in a decent way. You want to be a jackass be a jackass. I'd tell you the same thing no matter what day it was. You started out sarcastic and with an omnipotent aire. Being the first time we've interacted it's hard to gauge where you're at. If one of the regulars would have said that id give em some **** back with the answer and think nothing of if it. I don't know who you are or the horse you came in on. Maybe you should head to the forestryforum. They don't like cussing there either.


----------



## Jhenderson

bitzer said:


> You want info then ask for it in a decent way. You want to be a jackass be a jackass. I'd tell you the same thing no matter what day it was. You started out sarcastic and with an omnipotent aire. Being the first time we've interacted it's hard to gauge where you're at. If one of the regulars would have said that id give em some **** back with the answer and think nothing of if it. I don't know who you are or the horse you came in on. Maybe you should head to the forestryforum. They don't like cussing there either.



If that's true why tell all about your day to begin with? You offered it as an excuse. It may be a reason, but it's no excuse. Go back and read the actual words, not what you've decided they mean. There was nothing demeaning or sarcastic in my question. As for your foul mouth; there are over 150,000 words in the English language. If you can't express yourself without vulgarity it says a lot more about you tha it does me.


----------



## Jhenderson

northmanlogging said:


> Damn dude,
> 
> You may have noticed that this younger generation took to vulgarity like a duck to water.
> 
> Our parents tried... they did, but I learned my best **** from my mom so? Still hate Tabasco though.
> 
> In the end its just words, adjectives if you will.
> 
> But what do I know I was raised by bikers, loggers, Felons and wolfs



I can probably make you blush. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The language used was unwarranted and gratuitous. As with young folks today as well as the culprit here, the regular use of vulgarity only lessens it's meaning, and the quality of our discourse suffers for it. I don't tolerate being spoken to like that face to face, let alone from someone who's hiding behind a screen name without an address.


----------



## bitzer

Jhenderson said:


> If that's true why tell all about your day to begin with? You offered it as an excuse. It may be a reason, but it's no excuse. Go back and read the actual words, not what you've decided they mean. There was nothing demeaning or sarcastic in my question. As for your foul mouth; there are over 150,000 words in the English language. If you can't express yourself without vulgarity it says a lot more about you tha it does me.


I told you about my day because there was a few words flying around the woods as an example for vulgar language not to make an excuse for the way I reacted to you. Like I said you want to be holier then thou on your high horse then go ahead. You've made my list. And it's a pretty short list around here. Most guys are civil to start out with. Not sure why you had to start it out that way.


----------



## Jhenderson

Show me " That Way". You read something into my question that wasn't there and now you can't find a way to back out of the position you've put yourself into. Merry Christmas.


----------



## rwoods

J H, I personally don't know you or bitzer. But I doubt it was your question that bothered him. It was likely your response (quoted below) to his initial answer. No offense on my part intended, but it felt like a smack in the face when I read it even before bitzer had posted his reply. I dare say he took it the same way. May just be regional and personality differences. I'm in my 35th year married to a Rhode Islander and I still have trouble distinguishing ill-will slams from benign mannerisms. Trying to figure out a southern boy hasn't been a cake walk for her either. 

Ron



Jhenderson said:


> That's good for you, but it doesn't explain how and why you get special dispensation from Federal Law which was my question.


----------



## Jhenderson

I don't mean to belabor this any longer but, I see no anamous in that statement. It's good for him that he gets an extension if he needs it. I asked how he got special treatment on federal law and telling me that a trooper told him so doesn't answer the question. Troopers don't write law. Trucking is a small but important part of my business and I need all the info I can get. That's why I posed the question in the first place. There's enough false information out there to cost a little guy like me more than I can afford. I've spent enough time undergoing level 3 checks road side to know I don't know everything. He could have said it had to do with his state forming new intrastate regs , which fed regs don't cover. I took his answer as blowing me off on a legitimate question. When I am asked a question, I give a direct answer. I expect the same from others. Even if the answer is " I don't know". You are correct when you say it's not easy to get a feel for what people mean over the Internet. There's no facial clues or inflection in a voice. There are times like now, when things get quickly out of hand and that's regrettable. You are a voice of reason. Merry Christmas.


----------



## rwoods

Thanks. Don't know about the voice of reason part - just trying to make a little peace being it is almost Christmas and all. 

Merry Christmas to you as well. 
Ron


----------



## 1270d

SliverPicker said:


> This is exactly how I was told it went. That's normal operating. There's normal operating then there's Break Up. Then they really put in the hours. Dean once told me that his record week during break up was 125 hours. That's nuts.



Then some of the guys just about using tape to hold their eyes open. Only the good guys will take care of business like that, and Dean was one of the good guys. We talk about him all the time.


----------



## rwoods

General rule of thumb question assuming the information sought is not proprietary or meaningless due to local variables: 

With average accessibility in your part of the world, what is the usual split between landowner and logger? How about when a broker/forester is involved? Does species materially impact the split?

My experience is extremely limited and all local - 25 years ago, I sold the logs from one red oak with one veneer or near veneer quality log. The split then was 50% logger, 25% broker and 25% owner. All the logger did was pickup and transport the logs. Later sold a very small patch by taking bids directly from loggers, but can’t remember the ending split - I do remember that the loads from one walnut brought more than half the gross for all, but required transport to a more distant mill. 

Question is part curiosity and part personal. Curiosity extends all the way to BW’s neck of the woods.

Thanks, 

Ron


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## northmanlogging

My split starts at 50/50, edging to more towards me the fewer loads or more danger etc rarely bid less then 70/30.

I have bid as high as 60% to the lo, cause it was really nice timber... but that guy had trouble staying out of jail long enough to get a clear permit.

Trucking off the top, so we both take the hit.

Never dealt with a forester, but i wanna say they like getting paid direct round here


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## Skeans

We're normally are around 45% any higher here and you'll lose jobs, when we did firm work it was all tonnage based and I'll say this with them even some of the big firms will screw you and try to throw you under the bus to the land owner.

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## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Never dealt with a forester, but i wanna say they like getting paid direct round here



Reason for that is we're always "wrong". Graded standing timber and scaled logs are never the same, no matter how hard we try! We get blamed for that a lot of the time. We have ways around it, though... like crippling the growth model to show a smaller volume than actual. This lets the logger think he's getting one over on us, which pencils out as a Good Deal. It pains us to do this, though, because we KNOW our numbers are not only "wrong", but actually Wrong. I can explain this more if anybody's interested.


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## northmanlogging

Ya?

it makes sense, cause if us dumb loggers start thinking that the foresters are overbidding stuff it might make us reconsider the project, better to come out ahead then, to be left holding the bag.

The few FS projects I've looked at seems like they were looking at about half the timber I was looking at, maybe on purpose maybe not, I may never know for sure.


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## woodfarmer

From a landowner, an Ash tree boards out at 100’. I was offered $ 0.50 bd ft. I log and truck an hour away. No way,
Meanwhile they sell spruce Christmas trees 8’ for $50 around here.


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## Skeans

madhatte said:


> Reason for that is we're always "wrong". Graded standing timber and scaled logs are never the same, no matter how hard we try! We get blamed for that a lot of the time. We have ways around it, though... like crippling the growth model to show a smaller volume than actual. This lets the logger think he's getting one over on us, which pencils out as a Good Deal. It pains us to do this, though, because we KNOW our numbers are not only "wrong", but actually Wrong. I can explain this more if anybody's interested.


What happened to us was the forestry firm did what I would define as green logging leaving wood piles X amount an acre in thinnings, have us make X amount of stags an acre which are something the customer didn't want or ask for. The other firms were fine to work for other then they wouldn't call out on the CB saying they were walking into the trail a few of them would almost get hit with a tree.

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## northmanlogging

woodfarmer said:


> From a landowner, an Ash tree boards out at 100’. I was offered $ 0.50 bd ft. I log and truck an hour away. No way,
> Meanwhile they sell spruce Christmas trees 8’ for $50 around here.


I might be confused here... so yer saying an ash tree, is worth roughly $50, an entire load being about $2500

Where as a christmas tree, is worth the same $50?

The difference being that that ash tree just grew for 40 years or so with minimal input.

and that christmas tree takes yearly planting, yearly prunning, fertilizer, anti funguls, anti bugs, marketing, and a crew of kids to cut and sell them, or the industrial harvest, a bunch more work to cut and wrap thousands of trees in a few short weeks...

I don't know guess its how you look at it.


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## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> it makes sense, cause if us dumb loggers start thinking that the foresters are overbidding stuff it might make us reconsider the project, better to come out ahead then, to be left holding the bag.



Pretty much. Paperwork-wise, it's easier for us to take a bit of a bath than to arbitrate a dispute. We're not Weyco and are not under huge pressure to make a buck. We don't have shareholders. Oh, and we don't grade for poles or special mill or anything except sawlogs. The Corps guys don't want to deal with the admin. Loggers come out ahead there, too. 



Skeans said:


> What happened to us was the forestry firm did what I would define as green logging leaving wood piles X amount an acre in thinnings, have us make X amount of stags an acre which are something the customer didn't want or ask for. The other firms were fine to work for other then they wouldn't call out on the CB saying they were walking into the trail a few of them would almost get hit with a tree.



Those snag/leave tree rules are a PITA. They don't work and they are a hassle and a hazard for everybody involved. We only add two hassles -- some pre-work road repair (we don't have any other timely way to get roads repaired because government) and lop/scatter/crush all slash. No piles. Can't get the permits to burn 'em.


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## northmanlogging

I think i need to look into cutting down there again... sounds like its fairly easy werk


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## woodfarmer

Hmmmm, 1536 bd ft in a cord of wood @$.50 would be $768. Vs $100 cord for firewood and the customer pays for trucking. I’m not sure what wastage is in a log, maybe 20% or more when sawing, but the mills around here bundle it and sell it for firewood. 
So I either sell for firewood or find a mill that pays better or does their own trucking.


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## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> I think i need to look into cutting down there again... sounds like its fairly easy werk



It's all skidder ground, even.


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## Skeans

woodfarmer said:


> From a landowner, an Ash tree boards out at 100’. I was offered $ 0.50 bd ft. I log and truck an hour away. No way,
> Meanwhile they sell spruce Christmas trees 8’ for $50 around here.


Can I throw in a little having been a Noble fir Christmas tree farm, our price we got at U cut was around 50 yes but look at our liability for it. Now think of this what a seedling cost each, the amount of fuel to work that ground just to plant that field, now after planting we have to mow the rows then till the rows for the first 3 to 4 years after that it's just mow, then comes hand labor of shearing a tree to shape it's hard to find a good crew that knows how to do it let alone one guy to do now think of the insurance to run this crew, fertilizer is done at least once a year for color every year, then comes harvest it's normally not a clear cut it's selective so the cost is higher because of labor, now let's talk equipment the balers alone are around 50k, a stump grinder at least another 50k, the 100+ horse tractor it takes to run the grinder, then a special narrow tractor not cheap either plus everything you need for it. For the 50 dollars you pay for the tree it's amazing the guys stay in business trust me we got out of it because there's no way you can make anything unless you're big a million plus a year, our biggest year was 125k of them.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

madhatte said:


> Those snag/leave tree rules are a PITA. They don't work and they are a hassle and a hazard for everybody involved. We only add two hassles -- some pre-work road repair (we don't have any other timely way to get roads repaired because government) and lop/scatter/crush all slash. No piles. Can't get the permits to burn 'em.



My only thing I would say on government thins yes you can do that but for a small private land owner it shouldn't be done they're looking for two completely different things, when we did that work they would blame it on us which is something I'd never leave or do for a land owner. Most foresters are great to work for but some really leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth plus they make a tinder box for fire.
Now to the slash part with how we do our cut to length thinning running on the slash does that fit your guy's model or does it all need to be ground?

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## SliverPicker

1270d said:


> Then some of the guys just about using tape to hold their eyes open. Only the good guys will take care of business like that, and Dean was one of the good guys. We talk about him all the time.



We've had this conversation, but I really do consider him one of my best-ever friends. Even after all the time that went by between contact. There was never any BS from him. I always felt 100% comfortable around that guy. This is from day one of having met him. He was a very special guy. Life ain't fair. Can't go back. Blah blah blah.

I know you know what I mean.


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## SliverPicker

I'm a bit guilt-ridden to this day that I didn't stay in touch with him. Crap.


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## Jhenderson

woodfarmer said:


> Hmmmm, 1536 bd ft in a cord of wood @$.50 would be $768. Vs $100 cord for firewood and the customer pays for trucking. I’m not sure what wastage is in a log, maybe 20% or more when sawing, but the mills around here bundle it and sell it for firewood.
> So I either sell for firewood or find a mill that pays better or does their own trucking.



Be careful going to the internet for all your info. That figure is pure math. It doesn't allow for any air space and uses sawn lumber, not logs for its cu ft conclusions. There's closer to 1K board ft of logs in a cord.


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## Gologit

Skeans said:


> Can I throw in a little having been a Noble fir Christmas tree farm, our price we got at U cut was around 50 yes but look at our liability for it. Now think of this what a seedling cost each, the amount of fuel to work that ground just to plant that field, now after planting we have to mow the rows then till the rows for the first 3 to 4 years after that it's just mow, then comes hand labor of shearing a tree to shape it's hard to find a good crew that knows how to do it let alone one guy to do now think of the insurance to run this crew, fertilizer is done at least once a year for color every year, then comes harvest it's normally not a clear cut it's selective so the cost is higher because of labor, now let's talk equipment the balers alone are around 50k, a stump grinder at least another 50k, the 100+ horse tractor it takes to run the grinder, then a special narrow tractor not cheap either plus everything you need for it. For the 50 dollars you pay for the tree it's amazing the guys stay in business trust me we got out of it because there's no way you can make anything unless you're big a million plus a year, our biggest year was 125k of them.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Did you guys use a helicopter for harvest? Just kind of curious about the going rate per hour or per bundle.


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## northmanlogging

woodfarmer said:


> Hmmmm, 1536 bd ft in a cord of wood @$.50 would be $768. Vs $100 cord for firewood and the customer pays for trucking. I’m not sure what wastage is in a log, maybe 20% or more when sawing, but the mills around here bundle it and sell it for firewood.
> So I either sell for firewood or find a mill that pays better or does their own trucking.



well, it takes about 2 hours to hand cut 1k bf, felling limbing and skidding. All of which would need to be done if it where to be processed into firewood anyway.

Then I'm no superhero and with the splitter I have it takes another 5 or 6 hours to split up a cord.

We can get $250 a cord around here for split and dried firewood, $250 for 8 hours of work, cut out yer fuel cost and the cost of the equipment, say half of that $250, you just made $125 for a days worth of work.

Instead spend the 8 hours or so cutting and skidding saw logs, at say $.50 per bf ends up at 4000 bf or $2000 In the same 8 hours you made 4 times the money, with considerably less work, and likely less fuel too.


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## northmanlogging

Firewooding is a racket, it seems like your making money until you realize that its a matter of scale, bigger truck, bigger skidding, and much much bigger splitting and processing.

Not knocking the guys that do it, but to really get ahead on it you need to be able to process a whole bunch of wood in one day, and then turn around and sell it all.

Hel, I bought my skidder on firewood money, but it took all spring, summer and fall to make enough to convince the wife to let me do it.


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## Skeans

Gologit said:


> Did you guys use a helicopter for harvest? Just kind of curious about the going rate per hour or per bundle.


No we did all hand labor as well as using our forwarder then we have a forwarder trailer for our 100 horse 4x4 tractor, bailing was done with a stand up baler as well as three other standard balers most of our trees were 8'+ range so weight was up there as well. Wish I could help on the helicopter part but I don't have clue on the rate.

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## madhatte

Skeans said:


> Most foresters are great to work for but some really leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth plus they make a tinder box for fire.
> Now to the slash part with how we do our cut to length thinning running on the slash does that fit your guy's model or does it all need to be ground?



Re: tinderbox effect. Turns out the Agency wants long horizontal views under a closed canopy, so one of our silvicultural goals is to prevent fuels buildup. Some landowners are weird about not killing any trees, but not ours. 

Re: slash. Whole-tree skidding to landing, slash re-distributed after, lop/scatter/crush. No grinder requirement. Sometimes it's convenient to corduroy a wet spot which is fine. Turn trees are discouraged but allowed as necessary. We did a sale a few years ago testing the waters of biomass sale that required a grinder because hogfuel was the product. Nobody made a dime, so we didn't do it again.


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## northmanlogging

so if a guy were to limb and buck in the brush, then all He would need to do is drive over the brush and call it a day?


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## madhatte

Probably so. That should meet the contract requirements. You'd want to ask the Corps guys but I think they'd be good with that.


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## woodfarmer

I realize there is a more realistic number than those I posted. As Northman said selling to a mill is the way to go. There’s always lots of tops and crooked trees for firewood.
I had a fellow by today to look at the lumber I had milled this summer. If I can get a few orders, I would considered having a portable mill come in and mill the logs.


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## DSW

northmanlogging said:


> well, it takes about 2 hours to hand cut 1k bf, felling limbing and skidding. All of which would need to be done if it where to be processed into firewood anyway.
> 
> Then I'm no superhero and with the splitter I have it takes another 5 or 6 hours to split up a cord.
> 
> We can get $250 a cord around here for split and dried firewood, $250 for 8 hours of work, cut out yer fuel cost and the cost of the equipment, say half of that $250, you just made $125 for a days worth of work.
> 
> Instead spend the 8 hours or so cutting and skidding saw logs, at say $.50 per bf ends up at 4000 bf or $2000 In the same 8 hours you made 4 times the money, with considerably less work, and likely less fuel too.



Time I moved to the West coast.

I'm in flat ground, hardwood country, couldn't be more different than the West coast. How realistic is $.50 a foot? White oak and Walnut, sometimes cherry are up there in price and there's a decent amount of it. There's a ton of red oak and Maple but by the time it's all said and done it doesn't pencil out to $2000 a day that's for sure. If you were in absolute premium stands of white oak, and they exist, it's gravy but that makes up a small percentage. 

Ash for a guaranteed $.50 i'd never leave the woods.


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## northmanlogging

DSW said:


> Time I moved to the West coast.
> 
> I'm in flat ground, hardwood country, couldn't be more different than the West coast. How realistic is $.50 a foot? White oak and Walnut, sometimes cherry are up there in price and there's a decent amount of it. There's a ton of red oak and Maple but by the time it's all said and done it doesn't pencil out to $2000 a day that's for sure. If you were in absolute premium stands of white oak, and they exist, it's gravy but that makes up a small percentage.
> 
> Ash for a guaranteed $.50 i'd never leave the woods.



We're getting between .60 to 1.42 per foot, species dependent.

Its all in how much production you can get in a day, realistically I don't make that in a day, but I can if I were to push a little harder.

Fer me 10 trees on average makes a load, 20 logs thereabouts. I hand limb and limbing out here is a bit different then limbing hardwoods, hardwoods get 3-4 big limbs per stem, we get 100 plus per stem.

Anyway, one guy and a skidder, with a little enthusiasm, should be able to put up 3-5k bf a day, long days yes, but I've done it even in sketchy ground and cruddy timber.

Ole bitz claims to do it on the regular (I believe him) and many an old fart says they've done it too. If your not getting a load a day take a long hard look at how you manage your movement, cut any excessive waltzing around or tracking back and forth in a machine.

Right now, with the very little light we have, production is a little slim, but I'm still averaging a load every other day.


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## Jhenderson

Pri


northmanlogging said:


> We're getting between .60 to 1.42 per foot, species dependent.
> 
> Its all in how much production you can get in a day, realistically I don't make that in a day, but I can if I were to push a little harder.
> 
> Fer me 10 trees on average makes a load, 20 logs thereabouts. I hand limb and limbing out here is a bit different then limbing hardwoods, hardwoods get 3-4 big limbs per stem, we get 100 plus per stem.
> 
> Anyway, one guy and a skidder, with a little enthusiasm, should be able to put up 3-5k bf a day, long days yes, but I've done it even in sketchy ground and cruddy timber.
> 
> Ole bitz claims to do it on the regular (I believe him) and many an old fart says they've done it too. If your not getting a load a day take a long hard look at how you manage your movement, cut any excessive waltzing around or tracking back and forth in a machine.
> 
> Right now, with the very little light we have, production is a little slim, but I'm still averaging a load every other day.



Prices don't matter as much as stumpage, trucking, and chance vs final gate price. All these figures being thrown around seem to ignore all the other costs associated with producing the logs delivered to the mill. I've never had a $2K day but I bet I've put more in my pocket than some who have. Right now I'm cutting white pine. Anybody want to discuss prices? Try .40cts a foot delivered for a prime ( 20+ in, clear 16 ft) log. I've seen scale tickets with a .35 cts price for a log. Not per ft, the whole log! Around here a good job will average 350 bd ft per tree. An average job, 225-250 bd ft. The job I'm on right now has more pulp than logs on an average day. Making blanket statements about value, volume, and costs don't serve anybody very well.


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## Gologit

Jhenderson said:


> Making blanket statements about value, volume, and costs don't serve anybody very well.




In your part of the country, with your methods, that may be true.
Out here is a different story. Maybe our value, volume, and costs are easier to figure because there are so many examples for us to use and so much good information readily available to us.

Maybe making blanket statements about making blanket statements isn't a good idea either?


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## northmanlogging

Jhenderson said:


> Pri
> 
> 
> Prices don't matter as much as stumpage, trucking, and chance vs final gate price. All these figures being thrown around seem to ignore all the other costs associated with producing the logs delivered to the mill. I've never had a $2K day but I bet I've put more in my pocket than some who have. Right now I'm cutting white pine. Anybody want to discuss prices? Try .40cts a foot delivered for a prime ( 20+ in, clear 16 ft) log. I've seen scale tickets with a .35 cts price for a log. Not per ft, the whole log! Around here a good job will average 350 bd ft per tree. An average job, 225-250 bd ft. The job I'm on right now has more pulp than logs on an average day. Making blanket statements about value, volume, and costs don't serve anybody very well.



Think yer missing the part where woodfarmer was sayin that firewood is better money then .50 a foot.

If that's true, good on him. But I've played both games, logging if you have the timber in front of you and a means of production wins every time. When I started this craziness (2009 the height of the depression) we were getting .16 to .22 per foot, or 160-220 per 1k bf. That's right around $720 for the whole load, -$250. for trucking and split 3 ways. Not hardly worth the effort.

But then firewooding, all I really accomplished was a sore back and a beat up truck, made a little more money then, but not enough to make up for the physical effort. Now though, firewood is a chumps game out here, tweekers and drunks play at it and drive the prices down, even with inflation you can still get a real cord of wood for $180, cut split and delivered, I can't even sell dump truck loads of logs and compete with that.


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## northmanlogging

Jhenderson said:


> Pri
> 
> 
> Prices don't matter as much as stumpage, trucking, and chance vs final gate price. All these figures being thrown around seem to ignore all the other costs associated with producing the logs delivered to the mill. I've never had a $2K day but I bet I've put more in my pocket than some who have. Right now I'm cutting white pine. Anybody want to discuss prices? Try .40cts a foot delivered for a prime ( 20+ in, clear 16 ft) log. I've seen scale tickets with a .35 cts price for a log. Not per ft, the whole log! Around here a good job will average 350 bd ft per tree. An average job, 225-250 bd ft. The job I'm on right now has more pulp than logs on an average day. Making blanket statements about value, volume, and costs don't serve anybody very well.


Further more, stumpage is simple here split it by percentage, make sure you're making enough to make it worth while but don't rob the client blind either. Trucking isn't so bad, and you can figure that into the bid, here is based on distance mostly so its pretty easy to figure.

Far as Chance VS Final gate price? not sure what you mean, prices vary yes, but generally not wildly, and if you send the mills decent wood on the regular they tend to scale a little better, not much mind... but a little, So I don't see where there is chance involved? 

Unless you are buying standing timber, which is normal in some areas, and foolish if you want my opinion, too many variables for that sort of nonsense.


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## Jhenderson

Chance is the term we use around here for the difficulty in harvest. Hard chance= rocky, steep, wet, long skid, or any combination there of. Easy chance= flat, good soil conditions, short skid, good wood etc. Buying standing timber is the norm around here, but even if you're contracting to a mill, logging chance has to come into play in order to turn a profit. I've looked at jobs where I'd loose money even if I doubled my base rate.


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## DSW

northmanlogging said:


> We're getting between .60 to 1.42 per foot, species dependent.



Bags are packed.

We're getting hosed here.

Buying standing timber is pretty common as well. Maple which isn't bringing anything anyway could really break a guy. A stand where 50% end up having heart rot and look fine on the outside. Yep, empty pockets.


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## bitzer

Ash trees that are 100' to 10" top are possible but not regular in this part of the world. My tallest was 75'. Ash is getting 600/mbf for number 1 delivered plus a bump for trucking if you're hauling. So $500 across the board would be pretty good considering number threes aren't worth sending. A cord is more like 500 bf.

Walnut is top of the list followed by cherry, hard/soft maple, red/white oak, then ash and basswood. Hickory next and then you really start scraping with beech, elm etc.

Yes you do have to cut a load a day. I typically cut/skid 1-2 loads per day. Totally dependant on size of timber, skid distance, terrain, etc. Don't think you'll do that part time with a farm tractor or skid loader. This is including pulp too. I've cut big timber jobs(6-700bf average) and done 2+ loads a day. Then I've cut pulp and pecker pole heavy jobs and barely scrape a load out for seemingly twice the effort. If you want to make money you will need to run 1.5 to 2 gallons thru a 90cc saw in a day and put that wood on the landing. 

Northy-
on big oak you could be flushing 30" limbs off. Just saying. 

Madhatte- so that's why my forester is always light on scale! I just thought I was that good!


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## madhatte

bitzer said:


> Madhatte- so that's why my forester is always light on scale! I just thought I was that good!



Maybe it's both?


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## Trx250r180

Some of the guys in town here can put out 30 ish loads a day with the toys they get to play with ,they are having problems getting trucks to haul them though .


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## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> Some of the guys in town here can put out 30 ish loads a day with the toys they get to play with ,they are having problems getting trucks to haul them though .


Lots of guys pushing 30 a day down here if they can get the trucks but one big boy down here running his own trucks was pushing just shy of 50 a day.

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## Trx250r180

Skeans said:


> Lots of guys pushing 30 a day down here if they can get the trucks but one big boy down here running his own trucks was pushing just shy of 50 a day.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Running 2 yarders or 1 ? 50 is a lot of sticks in a day .


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## Jhenderson

Gologit said:


> In your part of the country, with your methods, that may be true.
> Out here is a different story. Maybe our value, volume, and costs are easier to figure because there are so many examples for us to use and so much good information readily available to us.
> 
> Maybe making blanket statements about making blanket statements isn't a good idea either?



Be sure to write again when you have something to ad to the discussion.


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## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> Running 2 yarders or 1 ? 50 is a lot of sticks in a day .


One, we were told last Friday by one of the company foresters in 2018 the goal is no more choker setters or chasers it'll all be grapple ground and tethered for steep stuff the rest will be shovel logged.

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## Skeans

Jhenderson said:


> Be sure to write again when you have something to ad to the discussion.


Heck my last clear cut last summer was .75 per foot that was normal domestic nothing went export, right now export would be a dollar or so a foot, one of our better was 1.50 to 1.75 a foot best was just shy of 3 a foot.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> One, we were told last Friday by one of the company foresters in 2018 the goal is no more choker setters or chasers it'll all be grapple ground and tethered for steep stuff the rest will be shovel logged.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



I get the "safety" aspect of this.

But I really hate when someone that has no experience with the actual work dictates how the work is going to be done, regardless of what type of work it may be.

The people performing the work should be allowed or at least be considered, they know whats going to happen and the best way to get it done, the suits just know numbers and what looks good, not necessarily what works good.


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## northmanlogging

Not to mention the sheer amount of people that will now be out of work because of this.


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## Gologit

Jhenderson said:


> Be sure to write again when you have something to ad to the discussion.



Hey, thanks...I'll do just that. Very kind of you. No, really, I mean that.

Now, since you seem to have set yourself up as the arbiter of what does or does not constitute a worthwhile post should I check with you before I hit the send button?
Or would it be better to just depend on your good graces to keep me relevant?

One question. In post# 2848 you said that your average tree had 225 to 250 feet in it. Are you logging are are you trimming hedges with a pair of hand snips?


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> I get the "safety" aspect of this.
> 
> But I really hate when someone that has no experience with the actual work dictates how the work is going to be done, regardless of what type of work it may be.
> 
> The people performing the work should be allowed or at least be considered, they know whats going to happen and the best way to get it done, the suits just know numbers and what looks good, not necessarily what works good.


The head for our area I was told started in the rigging and has moved up to where he is now he's been helping push this stuff for them. 

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> The head for our area I was told started in the rigging and has moved up to where he is now he's been helping push this stuff for them.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




I'm sure it's a safety and insurance thing. To me it sounds like the end of an era.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> I'm sure it's a safety and insurance thing. To me it sounds like the end of an era.


The technology that's available now is making it more affordable to do more with less man power heck they only have a part time cutter between to farms that are pretty large now.

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> The technology that's available now is making it more affordable to do more with less man power heck they only have a part time cutter between to farms that are pretty large now.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




I get it. Technology puts guys out of work, but not many can work that hard any more anyway . The sfi meetings I sit in are full of guts who don't know how to run a saw.


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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> The head for our area I was told started in the rigging and has moved up to where he is now he's been helping push this stuff for them.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Yeah and?

Just cause someone has been around the work does not necessarily mean they understand the work. Way back (2 months) in the machine shop world that was a common saying "yeah I started on X blah blah blah...I'm the greatest blah blah blah, I've never scrapped a part blah blah blah" and they were a **** up then too.

Anyone in a suit is conning you or trying to sell you something.

Skeans I know your all for this tethering stuff, and it works, but at what cost? Not just money, but human, as well as markets, etc. We've been over this... Won't beat a dead horse on that one. Just if any of us are having trouble staying busy now... imagine if we were to all triple our production.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Yeah and?
> 
> Just cause someone has been around the work does not necessarily mean they understand the work. Way back (2 months) in the machine shop world that was a common saying "yeah I started on X blah blah blah...I'm the greatest blah blah blah, I've never scrapped a part blah blah blah" and they were a **** up then too.
> 
> Anyone in a suit is conning you or trying to sell you something.
> 
> Skeans I know your all for this tethering stuff, and it works, but at what cost? Not just money, but human, as well as markets, etc. We've been over this... Won't beat a dead horse on that one. Just if any of us are having trouble staying busy now... imagine if we were to all triple our production.


Some of us it's the cost of working anymore the days of guys on the ground especially on company grounds are gone just the way it is. I'm for it because I've known enough guys killed and hurt cutting timber over the years same with my dad it's been nice to see that going down, one place I can see a huge advantage for it is blow down on steep ground like 08 a lot of fallers were killed and a lot of the guys were my age as well as vets.

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## northmanlogging

What I really want to know is whats in it for the company that owns this company ground?

Its not their insurance that covers contract loggers.

If the past is any barometer on them, they could give 2 ***** if 1000 of us die every year, as long as they get their wood.

Its not their problem if you and I can't produce enough, cause they will just hire more.

Maybe I'm just a paranoid, but something tells me they are in on a cut if they want to make buying half a million dollar machines mandatory to work their ground


----------



## Jhenderson

Skeans said:


> Heck my last clear cut last summer was .75 per foot that was normal domestic nothing went export, right now export would be a dollar or so a foot, one of our better was 1.50 to 1.75 a foot best was just shy of 3 a foot.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



I'll assume that's gate price for the wood. What was your logging cost? That would include stumpage, falling, skidding, bucking, and trucking. After that we can discuss profit and loss. As I stated before, value has little to do with profit. I don't understand why some here are stuck on price delivered to the mill.


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## Skeans

Jhenderson said:


> I'll assume that's gate price for the wood. What was your logging cost? That would include stumpage, falling, skidding, bucking, and trucking. After that we can discuss profit and loss. As I stated before, value has little to do with profit. I don't understand why some here are stuck on price delivered to the mill.


That was profit, the markets here are hot really hot, the super high price stuff is special order wood the buyers pay the trucking which is to me, the tickets on the trucking ect, when we did the last masts some time back nothing was that high in price per load the trucking paid was 2500 just for the haul alone at 150 miles round trip it's gravy money compared to getting something long out of the woods. The highest paying single log we ever took out same thing it was a mast to a ship for a prince.

To your fuel question I'd bet in day we use 50 gallons on the clear cuts, our thinning we run through around 105 gallons a day with two machines and we're making about decent money doing that as well with three guys and no one on the ground.

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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> What I really want to know is whats in it for the company that owns this company ground?
> 
> Its not their insurance that covers contract loggers.
> 
> If the past is any barometer on them, they could give 2 ***** if 1000 of us die every year, as long as they get their wood.
> 
> Its not their problem if you and I can't produce enough, cause they will just hire more.
> 
> Maybe I'm just a paranoid, but something tells me they are in on a cut if they want to make buying half a million dollar machines mandatory to work their ground



I couldn't tell you for sure but I can tell you this their own union crews have a couple on order as well how much of this safety stuff is from that? I can't say and don't know, heck a while back one guy got killed in a 1270B harvester from chain shot now guess what everyone needs 1/2 think Ar2 windows and all snow holes on harvester heads to be plated with 1/4" minimum who drove that a contractor then the company added it. Here's a cool fun fact though where we are we are required to have it but a few hours down south they're only required to run the stuff on landing processors. To answer your question about the tethering I'm not sure but I know some of it is their insurance as well just like I have to have a policy on my place for if anyone gets hurt they do as well.

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## Jhenderson

Gologit said:


> Hey, thanks...I'll do just that. Very kind of you. No, really, I mean that.
> 
> Now, since you seem to have set yourself up as the arbiter of what does or does not constitute a worthwhile post should I check with you before I hit the send button?
> Or would it be better to just depend on your good graces to keep me relevant?
> 
> One question. In post# 2848 you said that your average tree had 225 to 250 feet in it. Are you logging are are you trimming hedges with a pair of hand snips?



You don't have to be an arbiter to recognize a ridiculous sentence or phrase. As for volume; what I said was the average ( pine) tree on a job was 225-250. Unlike out west, most jobs here are TSI. We don't cut the biggest and best, we cut what needs cutting. I've got jobs I've worked 3 times in the last 35 years. How many jobs have you been back to?


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## Jhenderson

Skeans said:


> That was profit, the markets here are hot really hot, the super high price stuff is special order wood the buyers pay the trucking which is to me, the tickets on the trucking ect, when we did the last masts some time back nothing was that high in price per load the trucking paid was 2500 just for the haul alone at 150 miles round trip it's gravy money compared to getting something long out of the woods. The highest paying single log we ever took out same thing it was a mast to a ship for a prince.
> 
> To your fuel question I'd bet in day we use 50 gallons on the clear cuts, our thinning we run through around 105 gallons a day with two machines and we're making about decent money doing that as well with three guys and no one on the ground.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



What do you pay for wood that profits $1.50. Bd ft? Fuel alone doesn't make up logging costs. You forgot to list stumpage, equipment payments, average monthly repairs, insurance, and salaries. Divide all that by average production( not your best week) and you get a reasonable idea of costs.


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## Skeans

Jhenderson said:


> What do you pay for wood that profits $1.50. Bd ft? Fuel alone doesn't make up logging costs. You forgot to list stumpage, equipment payments, average monthly repairs, insurance, and salaries. Divide all that by average production( not your best week) and you get a reasonable idea of costs.


No payments and I own the wood, when we log here we don't buy the wood it's all off a split percentage, wages and all costs come out ahead to make the profit.

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## northmanlogging

Jhenderson said:


> I'll assume that's gate price for the wood. What was your logging cost? That would include stumpage, falling, skidding, bucking, and trucking. After that we can discuss profit and loss. As I stated before, value has little to do with profit. I don't understand why some here are stuck on price delivered to the mill.



I pay percentage as well, usually 50/50 so if we're getting 600 mbf I get 300, then trucking runs around 300 per load, 4k average on a load (self loaders) =1200 ish, daily if I work hard enough, but realistically every 2 days

My costs are mobilization, which has never been over $500 total (skidder and excavator about $60 for just the skidder), fuel 30 gallons every 2 weeks of off road, and 30-60 gallons every week on road, average price of $250 every other week, for all vehicles, private included. And insurance around 2k a year, so what like $37 a week, If I run the dumper truck its considerable more, since it gets lousy mileage, and runs like crap on anything but premium, but then that is more or less treated as a separate entity, and billed into each load of rock/dirt I haul. 

all told per week I need to make 400 to cover cost of doing business ish (less repairs). If i get 2 loads a week I make $2000 after expenses. If I push and get 4 I only burn a little more off road diesel, but make well over $4000 a week.

Problem with pushing harder is that I am gimpy already, pushing things that don't work well makes them break more, and then I'm stuck healing for a week. So I work at my own pace, running is not my forte.


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## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> pushing things that don't work well makes them break more



Always a fine balance.


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## Jhenderson

northmanlogging said:


> I pay percentage as well, usually 50/50 so if we're getting 600 mbf I get 300, then trucking runs around 300 per load, 4k average on a load (self loaders) =1200 ish, daily if I work hard enough, but realistically every 2 days
> 
> My costs are mobilization, which has never been over $500 total (skidder and excavator about $60 for just the skidder), fuel 30 gallons every 2 weeks of off road, and 30-60 gallons every week on road, average price of $250 every other week, for all vehicles, private included. And insurance around 2k a year, so what like $37 a week, If I run the dumper truck its considerable more, since it gets lousy mileage, and runs like crap on anything but premium, but then that is more or less treated as a separate entity, and billed into each load of rock/dirt I haul.
> 
> all told per week I need to make 400 to cover cost of doing business ish (less repairs). If i get 2 loads a week I make $2000 after expenses. If I push and get 4 I only burn a little more off road diesel, but make well over $4000 a week.
> 
> Problem with pushing harder is that I am gimpy already, pushing things that don't work well makes them break more, and then I'm stuck healing for a week. So I work at my own pace, running is not my forte.



All I can say is back here we think we're doing good at 17-18 cts. a foot in good going. I spoke with the guy who won the last hardwood job I looked at. He said he was at $.26 cts a foot gross profit. Thats with at least 6 sorts on the landing, but after what he paid for the wood. That's big money in the east. Most of us shoot for $.17 cts a ft. .30cts + is a rare occasion. My hats off to you guys.


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## woodfarmer

northmanlogging said:


> Think yer missing the part where woodfarmer was sayin that firewood is better money then .50 a foot.
> 
> If that's true, good on him. But I've played both games, logging if you have the timber in front of you and a means of production wins every time. When I started this craziness (2009 the height of the depression) we were getting .16 to .22 per foot, or 160-220 per 1k bf. That's right around $720 for the whole load, -$250. for trucking and split 3 ways. Not hardly worth the effort.
> 
> But then firewooding, all I really accomplished was a sore back and a beat up truck, made a little more money then, but not enough to make up for the physical effort. Now though, firewood is a chumps game out here, tweekers and drunks play at it and drive the prices down, even with inflation you can still get a real cord of wood for $180, cut split and delivered, I can't even sell dump truck loads of logs and compete with that.


I may or may not have been into the Christmas cheer when I made that comment, I was confused.
I had a better conversation with a log buyer today @ 600 per 1k bf. They have their own truck so that should be slightly better. The weather however has been in the low -20s most of the week, that's darn cold. Christmas vacation is almost over, so it will be back to the real job and logging when I can get to it. Cheers


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## Gologit

Jhenderson said:


> You don't have to be an arbiter to recognize a ridiculous sentence or phrase. As for volume; what I said was the average ( pine) tree on a job was 225-250. Unlike out west, most jobs here are TSI. We don't cut the biggest and best, we cut what needs cutting. I've got jobs I've worked 3 times in the last 35 years. How many jobs have you been back to?



You're right, I don't usually "go back" to jobs I've been on. Most of our logging is clearcut so there's no need to go back. Clearcut really simplifies things.
A few years ago I logged an eighty acre piece that my Grandfather logged when he was a young man. It was mostly Redwood down low and doug fir a little higher up.It was old growth when he cut it, I did the second growth and the passed over old growth. There was about 90 years between his logging and mine. There were still Redwood stumps with his springboard notches in them. The ground belongs to the family trust.
I guess you could call what he did a selective cut because he left the junk that, in those days, wasn't merchantable. We took everything. Those old stumps are still there though, along with some of my own.
Does that qualify as going back?


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## Jhenderson

Not hardly. But you folks operate differently than we do here. The landowner I've worked for the most in the last 20 years generally shoots for 60% of full stocking in basal area after harvest. Some areas end up less than that if the wood is really bad and not worth saving. That is the case with one small piece I finished a few weeks ago. Looks awful, and I'll never cut there again but it is what it is. 60% of what was marked as log went in the pulp pile due to rot. Poor soil conditions plus no selective harvest for at least the last 75 years didn't help. It may, or may not grow better timber next time. Don't get me wrong, we do cut nice trees as well, but the focus for these folks has been continual timber stand improvement for the last 80+ years. I tell people the only time I cut a nice tree is if there's an even nicer one growing next to it.


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## bitzer

Gologit said:


> You're right, I don't usually "go back" to jobs I've been on. Most of our logging is clearcut so there's no need to go back. Clearcut really simplifies things.
> A few years ago I logged an eighty acre piece that my Grandfather logged when he was a young man. It was mostly Redwood down low and doug fir a little higher up.It was old growth when he cut it, I did the second growth and the passed over old growth. There was about 90 years between his logging and mine. There were still Redwood stumps with his springboard notches in them. The ground belongs to the family trust.
> I guess you could call what he did a selective cut because he left the junk that, in those days, wasn't merchantable. We took everything. Those old stumps are still there though, along with some of my own.
> Does that qualify as going back?




That's awesome Bob. I love reading that kind of stuff.


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## bitzer

Jhenderson said:


> Not hardly. But you folks operate differently than we do here. The landowner I've worked for the most in the last 20 years generally shoots for 60% of full stocking in basal area after harvest. Some areas end up less than that if the wood is really bad and not worth saving. That is the case with one small piece I finished a few weeks ago. Looks awful, and I'll never cut there again but it is what it is. 60% of what was marked as log went in the pulp pile due to rot. Poor soil conditions plus no selective harvest for at least the last 75 years didn't help. It may, or may not grow better timber next time. Don't get me wrong, we do cut nice trees as well, but the focus for these folks has been continual timber stand improvement for the last 80+ years. I tell people the only time I cut a nice tree is if there's an even nicer one growing next to it.




That's roughly here too. It really takes the right kind of ground to to get a good even aged stand of big timber. I've cut some that you could tell were clear cut 150 years ago or so and not touched again. Usually high concentrations of red oak in those stands that get super tall with no limbs. You'll get some really nice ash and cherry and soft/hard maple between them. As far as quality of stems goes it seems that a select cut of 15 years or so gets things opened up to get hard maple going good again. You need that sunlight to spur the growth to keep the hearts small. Oak need wide open spaces to regen and with invasives it gets difficult to do that. I think there should be controlled burns in those oak shelter wood cuts to burn the crap off and get the regen to a good start. Kill all the deer too. People get nervous when you say that kind of stuff though. The foresters know, they just can't act on it.


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## northmanlogging

These pics are from 2012 I cut a bunch for these folks, enough to make a load and pay down some bills




My more recent videos are taken from just behind the same house this week.

In all I think I've cut on this property 4 times in the last 15 years or so, with the current project being by far the biggest, won't be much left worth cutting this time.


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## Skeans

Anyone ever seen a conversion like this?
https://www.ccheavyequipment.com/komatsu-yarder-9167257

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## madhatte

bitzer said:


> The foresters know, they just can't act on it.



*sigh*

Too true.


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## northmanlogging

think I've reached proper gyppo status.

Currently missing or mostly missing 3 windows on the essavator, Both fronts, well the little one and a good chunk of the main, and the little kicker window by yer feet.

I'be been putting off replacing them cause I wasn't sure about money for the last 2 months... 

Honestly been avoiding thinking about it, cause then panic would set in and i would start thinking I needed a day job again and the heart pressure would spike, vision would narrow...

Took a look at my accounts today... $40 in lexan is well within the budget, but maybe I'm just too much of a tight ass to pay for it at this point...

Sounds like I have a project for the next windy day.

To be fair though, everything really important is staying dry, a little of the floor board gets damp, but that is all, and the machines have been well off the beaten path for the last 3 months behind gates etc I haven't been worried about vandals etc... did find kitty tracks on the seat a few times. So far nothing has taken up residency.


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## rwoods

Guys, thanks for all the info regarding percentages. Still cogitating and have a hardwood forestry question. 35 years ago when I wanted to cut the trash and leave the best, the local state forester told me to cut any hardwood 50 years or older. According to him after that they were past their prime and growth rate doesn’t justify the wait. Now I am told if a marketable tree is healthy then let it grow and cut the trash. Of course when I talk selective cutting, the loggers want to cut the best and leave the rest and the forester want to leave the best and cut the rest. I believe I understand the economics behind the contract loggers’ position but I am not sure about the forester as we are not talking owls or huggers. Is the let them grow a general change in thinking or was cut at fifty an aberration? 

Ron


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> think I've reached proper gyppo status.
> 
> Currently missing or mostly missing 3 windows on the essavator, Both fronts, well the little one and a good chunk of the main, and the little kicker window by yer feet.
> 
> I'be been putting off replacing them cause I wasn't sure about money for the last 2 months...
> 
> Honestly been avoiding thinking about it, cause then panic would set in and i would start thinking I needed a day job again and the heart pressure would spike, vision would narrow...
> 
> Took a look at my accounts today... $40 in lexan is well within the budget, but maybe I'm just too much of a tight ass to pay for it at this point...
> 
> Sounds like I have a project for the next windy day.
> 
> To be fair though, everything really important is staying dry, a little of the floor board gets damp, but that is all, and the machines have been well off the beaten path for the last 3 months behind gates etc I haven't been worried about vandals etc... did find kitty tracks on the seat a few times. So far nothing has taken up residency.


Only issue with Lexan or AR2 is it can scratch horribly and it stains but otherwise it works great.

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## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> think I've reached proper gyppo status.
> 
> Currently missing or mostly missing 3 windows on the essavator, Both fronts, well the little one and a good chunk of the main, and the little kicker window by yer feet.
> 
> I'be been putting off replacing them cause I wasn't sure about money for the last 2 months...
> 
> Honestly been avoiding thinking about it, cause then panic would set in and i would start thinking I needed a day job again and the heart pressure would spike, vision would narrow...
> 
> Took a look at my accounts today... $40 in lexan is well within the budget, but maybe I'm just too much of a tight ass to pay for it at this point...
> 
> Sounds like I have a project for the next windy day.
> 
> To be fair though, everything really important is staying dry, a little of the floor board gets damp, but that is all, and the machines have been well off the beaten path for the last 3 months behind gates etc I haven't been worried about vandals etc... did find kitty tracks on the seat a few times. So far nothing has taken up residency.



Go ahead & spend that $40.

As you know, The electronics are in the rear, but a Basket of absolute Joy when things go south. 

We had to replace the main harness on our 200 a few years ago due to getting melted because the operator got too close to the brush fire.


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## Skeans

My last computer on our 94 200 Mark 4 was 3500 nothing I'd want to get wet.

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## hseII

Skeans said:


> My last computer on our 94 200 Mark 4 was 3500 nothing I'd want to get wet.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



That’s exactly what our 200 is.


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## Skeans

hseII said:


> That’s exactly what our 200 is.


They're great old machines all we've done is one undercarriage, a computer, a read out, water pump, and a few micro switches in 16k one of the best machines we've owned.

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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Guys, thanks for all the info regarding percentages. Still cogitating and have a hardwood forestry question. 35 years ago when I wanted to cut the trash and leave the best, the local state forester told me to cut any hardwood 50 years or older. According to him after that they were past their prime and growth rate doesn’t justify the wait. Now I am told if a marketable tree is healthy then let it grow and cut the trash. Of course when I talk selective cutting, the loggers want to cut the best and leave the rest and the forester want to leave the best and cut the rest. I believe I understand the economics behind the contract loggers’ position but I am not sure about the forester as we are not talking owls or huggers. Is the let them grow a general change in thinking or was cut at fifty an aberration?
> 
> Ron



All depends on what you the LO want, you wan't quick cash, or do you want a healthy stand?

cutting hardwoods on a say 10 year rotation you get a pretty good selection of decent wood and it fully supports and mimics the natural growth cycle of a deciduous forest.
But its a relatively low payout every 10 years, building eventually into much better payouts, but you have to be patient. (10 year rotation being entirely dependent on growing conditions etc)

Out here, most things are clear cut, then replanted mostly to one species, Doug Fir or Western Hemlock, so after 25-50 years ish they get a commercial thin, taking out all the little stuff, and making room for the better money trees to become even better money trees, that will then get clear cut again in another 25-50 years, and start over... at least thats the long game.

Personally, if I were the guy that owned 20 acres of hardwoods, I would manage it for cash crops, taking anything low value or low grade and letting the high value trees get bigger, until they reach their climax age and start to die off, or ideally just before, and then cut em all down, replant or sell and retire. Each forest is different though, so without boots on the ground, and some clue as to your timber value, its hard to say whats right or wrong.


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## hseII

Skeans said:


> They're great old machines all we've done is one undercarriage, a computer, a read out, water pump, and a few micro switches in 16k one of the best machines we've owned.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Our machine has less than 5,000hrs.

We bought it with less than 2,000.

Solid & Relatively simple.

And who doesn’t love a 12v Cummins?!!


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## Skeans

hseII said:


> Our machine has less than 5,000hrs.
> 
> We bought it with less than 2,000.
> 
> Solid & Relatively simple.
> 
> And who doesn’t love a 12v Cummins?!!


Our has the Mitsubishi in it.

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## hseII

Skeans said:


> Our has the Mitsubishi in it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Our 330 had a big Isuzu or Mitsubishi in it, ( I can’t remember), but I’ve never seen a Mark 4 130 or 200 that wasn’t Cummins Powered. 

We had a few of each over the years.

Thanks for the new info.


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## Jhenderson

rwoods said:


> Guys, thanks for all the info regarding percentages. Still cogitating and have a hardwood forestry question. 35 years ago when I wanted to cut the trash and leave the best, the local state forester told me to cut any hardwood 50 years or older. According to him after that they were past their prime and growth rate doesn’t justify the wait. Now I am told if a marketable tree is healthy then let it grow and cut the trash. Of course when I talk selective cutting, the loggers want to cut the best and leave the rest and the forester want to leave the best and cut the rest. I believe I understand the economics behind the contract loggers’ position but I am not sure about the forester as we are not talking owls or huggers. Is the let them grow a general change in thinking or was cut at fifty an aberration?
> 
> Ron



The general consensus among foresters I work with is trees are like livestock. Once a runt always a runt. Cut the low grade and weak trees until the overstory is mature. Then cut the overstory and start again. Oaks in particular require full sunlight to regenerate. Low grade doesn't ever improve in quality. If you high grade the stand you'll have weak, low dollar trees forever.


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## northmanlogging

Speaking of excavators in general...

The heat or AC does not work on mine, largely because the fan switch is seized and wont turn on, and probably more issues with the fuse box.

I've glanced at it a few times, but can't figure out how to get the dash thing apart to get at it, its behind the seat... and I really don't want to get into removing the seat as yet anyway... though it needs replaced, largely its an all day project and I just haven't had time or need to mess with it.

As for the fuse block thing (buss?) half the fuses don't work because the connections are so corroded they don't make connection anymore, it also should be replaced, and is right next to the fan and heat controls. Parts for this type of stuff have been difficult to locate though. Most everything works for now, engine works, throttle controls all work (fly by wire) lights (that aren't tore off) all work, just wipers and heat/AC don't currently function.


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## northmanlogging

Guess who got to try out his hard hat today!

IT WORKS!


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## rwoods

Let me be the first to say I am glad it worked.

Now if you were only testing it - I believe they have test dummies for that.

Ron


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## Skeans

I've tested one before nothing like a widow Maker coming flying from God knows where always good to keep as a shop ornament after they've had a hit.

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## northmanlogging

just a branch today... didn't scoot fast enough.

pushing a big ugly ceder with the orange wedge, solo of course, was backing towards machine to give it a push when it whacked me.


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## northmanlogging

Ran into an aging local gyppo at the fuel stop today, got to yackin of course, turns out dude hasn't worked in well over a year, lost most of his equipment, lost his license, well everything...

Drugs are bad m kay... 

He seemed more or less with it today, and he's a genuinely nice dude so i wish him the best. But it serves as a reminder of how bad this whole self employment thing can go when it goes bad.


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## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> Speaking of excavators in general...
> 
> The heat or AC does not work on mine, largely because the fan switch is seized and wont turn on, and probably more issues with the fuse box.
> 
> I've glanced at it a few times, but can't figure out how to get the dash thing apart to get at it, its behind the seat... and I really don't want to get into removing the seat as yet anyway... though it needs replaced, largely its an all day project and I just haven't had time or need to mess with it.
> 
> As for the fuse block thing (buss?) half the fuses don't work because the connections are so corroded they don't make connection anymore, it also should be replaced, and is right next to the fan and heat controls. Parts for this type of stuff have been difficult to locate though. Most everything works for now, engine works, throttle controls all work (fly by wire) lights (that aren't tore off) all work, just wipers and heat/AC don't currently function.



FLINT John Deere, who is the Hitachi Dealer also, (same machine), has most everything for our 100 of the same era.


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## Skeans

hseII said:


> FLINT John Deere, who is the Hitachi Dealer also, (same machine), has most everything for our 100 of the same era.


Do you guys have the big Dear John (joke) dealers like we do out here? Just out of curiosity?

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## northmanlogging

hseII said:


> FLINT John Deere, who is the Hitachi Dealer also, (same machine), has most everything for our 100 of the same era.


Yeah... Pape...
they wan't lots of money for their stuff, and they seem to have an issue with looking **** up.

So I generally get the part number online or from them, then go to NAPA and pay 1/3 what the dealer wants.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Yeah... Pape...
> they wan't lots of money for their stuff, and they seem to have an issue with looking **** up.
> 
> So I generally get the part number online or from them, then go to NAPA and pay 1/3 what the dealer wants.


I have the same issue but guess what Deere is discontinued stuff that's 10+ years old anymore it sucks 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## hseII

Skeans said:


> Do you guys have the big Dear John (joke) dealers like we do out here? Just out of curiosity?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



http://cf.flintequipco.com







CAT & DEERE both have a Parts Depot in ATL so they are better than some places.


----------



## hseII

Skeans said:


> I have the same issue but guess what Deere is discontinued stuff that's 10+ years old anymore it sucks
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Our 100EX is a 1995 model: there are parts on the shelf in ATL for that machine that I would have bet were NLA, 1 Being the “Bag Motor” that operates the Fuel shut Off. 

Call Flint for that machine.

For Kobobo,
Call Cowin. 
1 (800) 239-2694

https://cowin.com/manufacturer/kobelco-excavators/

I put new front windshield rollers on our late 1990’s 200 last year: they were on the shelf.


----------



## northmanlogging

hseII said:


> Our 100EX is a 1995 model: there are parts on the shelf in ATL for that machine that I would have bet were NLA, 1 Being the “Bag Motor” that operates the Fuel shut Off.
> 
> Call Flint for that machine.
> 
> For Kobobo,
> Call Cowin.
> 1 (800) 239-2694
> 
> https://cowin.com/manufacturer/kobelco-excavators/
> 
> I put new front windshield rollers on our late 1990’s 200 last year: they were on the shelf.



That "bag" motor quit on mine about a month after I bought it. couldn't figure out the issue, hired a mech-a-nic even, he had it dialed in like 10 minutes.

disconnected the linkage, hooked up a wire to kill if needed, starts and stops with the key, so I'm a happy guy

At the time they wanted like $600 for this goofy little motor, and keep in mind I had just paid cash for the excavator... at a time I wasn't entirely sure it would work out...

They say that mine is a "grey" market machine so parts are difficult to source, but if I can get the part # I can always find parts, its just a matter of talking loud enough to the parts people. Really though, its the same machine as a deere 490E and there really isn't much difference from the ex120-2 to the ex120-5, the zx's get a little different but not enough to worry about.


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> That "bag" motor quit on mine about a month after I bought it. couldn't figure out the issue, hired a mech-a-nic even, he had it dialed in like 10 minutes.
> 
> disconnected the linkage, hooked up a wire to kill if needed, starts and stops with the key, so I'm a happy guy
> 
> At the time they wanted like $600 for this goofy little motor, and keep in mind I had just paid cash for the excavator... at a time I wasn't entirely sure it would work out...
> 
> They say that mine is a "grey" market machine so parts are difficult to source, but if I can get the part # I can always find parts, its just a matter of talking loud enough to the parts people. Really though, its the same machine as a deere 490E and there really isn't much difference from the ex120-2 to the ex120-5, the zx's get a little different but not enough to worry about.



One of the parts guys told us ours was a Grey Market Machine a few years ago, but Flint said it’s not.


----------



## northmanlogging

I dont think any of em know whats really goin down


----------



## northmanlogging

Fyi hydro fluid burns real good


----------



## northmanlogging

Also i go through far to many fire extinguishers


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Fyi hydro fluid burns real good


Was it still in the excavator when it was burning ?


----------



## northmanlogging

Trx250r180 said:


> Was it still in the excavator when it was burning ?


well yeah...


----------



## northmanlogging

Finally got around to welding up the exhaust, so maybe I can finally get around to cleaning all the soot off the back end, and maybe worrying a little less about bursting into flames.


----------



## northmanlogging

Somebody twasn't paying any attention chucking logs monday... caught a stump and smashed up the cab a wee bit.

Thinking I should start a second or 4th side job as a body repair guy? Perhaps not?


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Somebody twasn't paying any attention chucking logs monday... caught a stump and smashed up the cab a wee bit.
> 
> Thinking I should start a second or 4th side job as a body repair guy? Perhaps not?


Time for a cab guard maybe?

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## madhatte

At least you don't have a boss to chew you out for busting stuff up.


----------



## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Time for a cab guard maybe?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


it was probably time like 9 months ago.

its going to take a few days to accomplish though, and being over an hour away from it for the last 5 months, makin it harder to get done, hence why the exhaust only just got welded, cause the welder is a PITA to load, and burns lots of fuel on a 2hr round trip (its very heavy)

So likely the Cage will get pondered and plotted a bunch before I even start, but I will likely be ordering material in the next few days for it.

This current project is the first real thin I've done while having the dirty hoe, and no cage has been a daily reminder, lots of close calls, or bumps where nothing got damaged... but it was close. 

In the meantime, I need to be more careful.


----------



## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> At least you don't have a boss to chew you out for busting stuff up.



Ahhh, the perks of self employment! but also, lost a days wages to fixing my stupidity...


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> also, lost a days wages to fixing my stupidity...



See, that was a big part of why I ended up joining the navy... I had too many of those days as a contract cruiser and wanted a boss again for awhile so I could get back on track. Of course, now't we're baby old farts, we gotta work with what we've got, right?


----------



## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> See, that was a big part of why I ended up joining the navy... I had too many of those days as a contract cruiser and wanted a boss again for awhile so I could get back on track. Of course, now't we're baby old farts, we gotta work with what we've got, right?



Nothing stopping you from cruising on your off days... nudge nudge, wink wink, you know what I mean


----------



## madhatte

's true, and I do


----------



## northmanlogging

Twas to quick to get a pic

But a 3/4 ton pickem up truck twas towing a deere 440 on the highway today. Flat bed trailer tandem but wiff singles bumper pull...

Headed straight fer a weigh station...


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Sounds like someone is getting their wallet lightened a bit


----------



## madhatte

That's a guy who's hard on equipment, I reckon.


----------



## Skeans

madhatte said:


> That's a guy who's hard on equipment, I reckon.


Like a union crew? I want a week or two off for vacation let's go drop the track skidder on that big stump to push the pan through the crank.

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## Deleted member 110241

My season started today, I haven't had this much snow this time of year in a long time... Went out to flag some thinning sites, was ok with snow shoes, but really slow going.
I wonder how the roads will be 2-3 weeks from now..


----------



## northmanlogging

Ignorance is expensive.

Though I had my fire wagon all good to go.

Turns out DNR has a specific list of tools that must be present on any fire wagon that is working a dnr job...

I didn't have most of em, but they are notably weird and I never even would have thought about it.

500' of 1" or 1.5" fire hose (I had 300' extra 200' $150)
hose wrench, or spanner had that
2.5" adapter got that
1/4 turn to 1.5" nst adapter ($60)
spare spark plug ($3)
2 spare pull start cords($3)
6 hose gaskets ($10)
2 quarts of oil for pump engine
crescent wrench
adjustable pliers
Grease if needed
Screw driver (wtf for?)
spark plug wrench
($60 in misc tools )
300 gal minimum tank
pump sufficient to move 20 gals a minute (think mine does around 50)
20' of suction hose with strainer

Theres also something about being able to fill pump cans off the fire wagon, but we're just going to ignore that for now as there is water onsite

Note:

There is no call out for shovels, pulaskis, axes, piss pumps, or rakes?

Anyhow since I'll be burning in a couple days I decided to check over the fire wagon real quick like. The whole time I have this list rattling around in my head. So I go pull the starter cord and pop... **** you not first pull the cord breaks... but I did find out Honda is nice enough to supply there engines with a nice notch cut out that fits a tie down strap just about perfectly, so spare cord problem solved.

But I have spent around $300 in random junk I'll likely never use, like the 1/4 turn adapter, or the 2 quarts of oil... engine only uses 1/4 of a quart so? or the screw driver? of indeterminate size or shape?


----------



## rwoods

Screwdriver so you can give it the optimum tune when the wind picks up. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Got me a fat lip from this one... always run away


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Got me a fat lip from this one... always run away


were ya trying to make it turn ?


----------



## northmanlogging

Nope just tossing it through some trees one of its tops didn't appreciate the hole i had for it


----------



## rwoods

Probably the wrong place to post this, but we got another novice cutter being egged on to tackle a tree that is beyond his skill level. If you agree maybe he’ll listen to you. Doesn’t appear that I have made any impression on him. https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/tricky-tree-to-take-down.319996/

Ron


----------



## rwoods

Thanks, NM & Bitzer. He still isn’t listen. Hope he doesn’t get hurt.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

you can tell em

but you can't tell em much


----------



## rwoods

Too true. I am sure I was pretty much the same except I never claimed to be quick or fast. Ron


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Too true. I am sure I was pretty much the same except I never claimed to be quick or fast. Ron





rwoods said:


> Probably the wrong place to post this, but we got another novice cutter being egged on to tackle a tree that is beyond his skill level. If you agree maybe he’ll listen to you. Doesn’t appear that I have made any impression on him. https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/tricky-tree-to-take-down.319996/
> 
> Ron



Ron, nobody is going to make any impression on that guy. You did everything you could and if he won't listen that's not your fault.
He doesn't want advice, he wants somebody to validate what he's already decided to do.


----------



## rwoods

You are probably right as usual. He is determined to cut that tree and that he is some kind of ninja. However, I guess I get more irritated at those who egg him on. Ron


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## Skeans

You can only try so much with people like that but most likely you’ll read about it in the paper. You can bring the horse to water but you can’t make them drink. Ron you did everything that you could for the guy, but like you said he’s bull headed and another saying young blank blank you can fill in the blanks hope ends well for him.


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> You are probably right as usual. He is determined to cut that tree and that he is some kind of ninja. However, I guess I get more irritated at those who egg him on. Ron



I know what you mean. The term "blind leading the blind" comes to mind. You can substitute whatever word you want to for blind.
Or, in the words of a bullbuck I remember, looking at the shattered remains of an OG Redwood that was dropped into a stump field by a faller he'd just canned... "That SOB is dumb enough for two people and I can't afford either one of them".


----------



## SliverPicker

If everyone only dropped trees within their comfort zone no one would ever progress.

Such is life.

Hopefully that tree turns out to be lesson learned and not something else.


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## northmanlogging

Its one thing to push boundries, another to push yer luck


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## rwoods

I can agree with you both. I hope he learns something without getting hurt. Just from his pictures and aside from any species issues, I would hazard a guess that there is a likelihood that a novice could fall it unscathed. However, he may learn nothing from the experience and the next one kills him. Much preferable to progressively expand one’s boundaries than to immediately take on every hazard presented. 

Reading his posts in another thread, he is caught up in his purchase of a new saw. Though urged to upgrade his purchase he resisted in deference to conserving cash for an expected birth. I thought with that type of restraint he might listen to a call for restraint on this tree, but the noise of cheerleaders and his self perceived invincibility may have deafened him.

Ron


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## madhatte

Sometimes the only way to learn is by doing. Fingers crossed there's no injuries.


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## SliverPicker

It's his choice. I am unconcerned.


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## northmanlogging

Lawyers are expensive...

but whiskey tastes good after the first 3 shots...


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## rwoods

I hope the lawyer came before the whiskey. If not, it may get real expensive. Ron


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## northmanlogging

lol yes and no


some folk owe me money.

but to get it I need to spend more on a lawyer then they owe (which I'm sure they are counting on) so, me being stubborn...


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## rwoods

Might pay you in the long run to get your lawyer to draft you a form contract that provides for recovery of your cost of collection including attorney fees. Doesn't help if the debtor is judgment proof.

Ron


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## madhatte

Uggh, contracts and lawyers, kryptonite, hiss hiss


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## northmanlogging

welp...

I know that now...

however, there is a contract, not bulletproof, but a contract...

and per state law, they get x days to pay me after I institute a lien, times nearly up... no money yet...

so next step is Foreclose on em... but it taint gonna be cheap, cause I have to eat all the costs up front... but per state law, I can if things go well recover that at the end.

future contracts and any since then, will have notice of intent to lien included as well as payment of legal fees etc, possibly going with interest as well...


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## madhatte

Best o' luck to ye


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## northmanlogging

this is one of many reasons I'd like to see dualing re legalized. No honor, no shame no respect etc... that and I'm fairly good with most forms of combat, not an expert per say, but I can hold my own for a little while anyway, pistols, swords, knifes (knife fights suck fyi) fists... I feel I would do ok better when angry though.


----------



## Gologit

Dueling? How 'bout with swords?


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## northmanlogging

gotcha


no ya dinnit


----------



## northmanlogging

Bid a job tonight, 

Private ground.

Big timber, real big at least fer me.

Steep though... and some property line issues so we shall see


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## madhatte

Best o' luck to ye


----------



## northmanlogging

Not sure the Ole Missus is going to pull em...

luckily its mostly downhill, just that initial grunt to the "road" (2nd gear low 4x4 in the mighty crummy and I was getting concerned about surviving and that was on the road)

might have to find a cat to drag em


----------



## Skeans

Sounds like good wood for a D7 sized machine. There was a 748 for sale down here for a reasonable price with a cab and grapples if that would fit the bill.


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## northmanlogging

Define reasonable? remember 7 years ago when you could get dozers for a couple grand? Those same dozers assholes are trying to sell for 30,000 today.

keep in mind I paid less then 20k for the essavator, including delivery.

One of the self loader jockeys I work with has a d6 I could probably rent for cheap, has a winch and log arch.

Also i wouldn't have a use for a D7, most of my clearing work is excavator ground, or D4 type stuff. Dozers have their place, and this project would surely by one of em, but honestly its not the norm for me. Mostly a dozer for me would be for regrading roads, pushing brush, very occasional road building and the rare log skidding project. All of which can be accomplished with an excavator, though a dozer does a slightly better job of holding a grade. And a skidder is just better at skidding than anything else on flat ground.


----------



## Skeans

That 748 was around 30k, I looked this morning it wasn’t on Craigslist out of Portland anymore but you might keep your eyes open.
20 years ago we bought a D7F for 35k with 3500 hours on it original undercarriage still on it today, it’s not used much but when you need it you need. For most of our brush work it’s what we use with a pin on brush rake and the fun old stump splitter that size of machine is hard to beat or a D8.


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## northmanlogging

30k for used iron is stupid, unless its in incredible shape just not worth it to me, I will gladly let the folks that are kneeling to the banks spend that kind of money.

while a big ass dozer would be fun, comes down to economics of scale, I generally don't clear and stump anything larger then an acre, and a big machine will make light work of it, but it comes with more overhead (trucking, fuel, etc) where as a smaller machine can be easily moved, less fuel, less collateral damage... I'm repeating myself, but i stay busy and for the most part have happy clients when I'm done (to date only 3 unhappy clients, 2 were crooks the other expected miracles, well one of the crooks wasn't so bad... just kept pushing for more then I was offering the other well... I do the job, and then I get paid...)

While where at economics of scale, been a couple jobs around me I've been watching, big crews, big machines, big messes, but they don't really work any faster then I do with my little machines and no crew?


----------



## Skeans

How many loads a week on how big of projects though?


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## northmanlogging

2 to 4 loads for me per week

The other guys gettin 2 a day ish crews of 3 or 4, then spending weeks clearing a few acres of stumps. Then another couple weeks putting in drainage. 

One crew took the better part of a month just to off load 3 acres of stumps, with 3 300 sized excavators.

Then keep in mind these folks are charging 150 to 250 an hour per machine.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> 2 to 4 loads for me per week
> 
> The other guys gettin 2 a day ish crews of 3 or 4, then spending weeks clearing a few acres of stumps. Then another couple weeks putting in drainage.
> 
> One crew took the better part of a month just to off load 3 acres of stumps, with 3 300 sized excavators.
> 
> Then keep in mind these folks are charging 150 to 250 an hour per machine.



That’s beyond slow, thinning we shoot for 3 to 4 a day clear cutting hand falling its 2 to 3 with a 3 man crew including driver.

The last mechanical clear cut we did 8 to 9 a day.


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## northmanlogging

Yeah I know...

The folks I know that have been at it awhile do pretty good, this seems to be out of the area crews, or sumthin, don't recognize any of em or their equipment, but they are here and getting jobs so?

The building and construction industry around here and from the sounds of it, nationwide is off the charts. Lots of new faces making a go of it.


----------



## 2dogs

Man! I'm probably not going to be doing any project until July. Well except for poison oak eradication. Spraying mostly.

Our backhoe and excavator are trapped down a public road deemed to hazardous to travel by the County. $100,000.00 worth of equipment just gathering dust and losing battery power. I don't even know if I can drive there since the last storm of March was a doozy. The road could have slid right off the map. Too far to legally fly a drone.

Cody has lots of tree jobs lined up I can be his groundie on. Better than nothing.

Just rambling. The rest of the family is out of town. Oh I am cooking at the family spring lamb BBQ on Saturday. Should I make a macaroni salad or roasted Brussell's Sprouts?


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## northmanlogging

both? as long as the sprouts are made with bacon...

Just how bad is this road? and could you sneak em out while no one is looking? cause... **** the county


----------



## 2dogs

Matt there is nothing I would rather do than just drive down the county road past the bad spot and drive into camp. I want to start up all the rolling stock and generators, pull out two trailers, one of which is loaded for wood destined for a project on Highway 101. Heck I'll even drive our contractor's 966 around just to get its fluids moving. But no. We are Boy Scouts and we believe in the rule of law and doing our duty to the County. 

Now if we had a sky crane I would first one saying "Let's go!".


----------



## northmanlogging

2dogs said:


> Matt there is nothing I would rather do than just drive down the county road past the bad spot and drive into camp. I want to start up all the rolling stock and generators, pull out two trailers, one of which is loaded for wood destined for a project on Highway 101. Heck I'll even drive our contractor's 966 around just to get its fluids moving. But no. We are Boy Scouts and we believe in the rule of law and doing our duty to the County.
> 
> Now if we had a sky crane I would first one saying "Let's go!".



Call it a good deed, you know saving the machines from looming destruction.

Also could wait for fire season, and maybe get on on the return trip? 1 bird 2 stones?


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Matt there is nothing I would rather do than just drive down the county road past the bad spot and drive into camp. I want to start up all the rolling stock and generators, pull out two trailers, one of which is loaded for wood destined for a project on Highway 101. Heck I'll even drive our contractor's 966 around just to get its fluids moving. But no. We are Boy Scouts and we believe in the rule of law and doing our duty to the County.
> 
> Now if we had a sky crane I would first one saying "Let's go!".


----------



## 2dogs

Thanks Bob! I have never seen that video before.

Here is an old vid.


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## Skeans

2dogs said:


> Thanks Bob! I have never seen that video before.
> 
> Here is an old vid.




If i remember right the skidder was a Wayne Stone from up around Portland.


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## northmanlogging

FYI

Fire extinguishers are expensive, taste terrible and make a huge mess...

But I sure am glad I have em.

On a lighter note, no real damage, just a slightly less square battery, and a very, very clean radiator...


----------



## rwoods

Glad it ended well. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

So story time

bought a bigger equipment trailer Saturday, took all day to get it sorta legal and home.]

Monday morning I run a load in the 5yd truck, only to blow the headgasket in it on the way out of the pit. Awesome... limp it home, dump the load (neighbors place)

Go to work on the new trailer so I can move the excavator this week, rewire completly weld on some proper safety chains etc

wednesday, hook up trailer only to find brakes no work at al... turns out the folks *helping* get it going really wanted it bad, and had adjusted the slacks all the way off... which is a whole new learning curve for me, 2 hours later everything seems like its working, drive the hour north load up the missus as a test run, deliver missus not problems

Except thats when the brakes decided to lock up and burn up 2 tires almost instantly... 2 hours later, get the brakes unstuck and limp it to the nearest tire shop... where they dont have tires instock.

So since the little truck is dead, I decide to move the old little trailer with the big truck, which is all fine and good, except that the big truck isnt wired for electric brakes, no big deal as long as I dont need to slam on the brake right... right thats when some yahoo in a blazer towing a minuture trailer decides to just hang a left at 55mph right in front of me... this would be the first of several times I got sideways this week... didnt crash, but left lots of tire behind

Thursday, go fer a motor psycho ride, while I wait on tires, once again sideways when someone pulled out infront of me... and again because of deer.. ****ing deer... didnt help I as doing better then double the speed limit...

Anyway, got the trailer back late tonight, guess I get to spend tomorrow figuring out the brakes, towed it home with brakes disconnected...


----------



## rwoods

At least you didn’t get the excavator sideways, or did you. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

nope, 2 minutes on the essavator this week, just shuffling positions for loading.


----------



## Skeans

Brake adjusters from memory turn the slack adjuster in all the way in then back off a quarter roughly the same for electric brakes as well.


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## northmanlogging

Yeah... they turned em until they where all the around the other way.

Doesnt help the hex was rounded off and needed to use a pipe wrench, or that this is my first go at adjusting air brakes. I'll get it sorted, just one more thong thar needs my attention


----------



## RandyMac

logging is serious business


----------



## northmanlogging

the on going saga of the trailer brakes

2 hours tracking down parts this morning, with zero luck, not even some lug nuts...

get the first wheel pulled off so I can take all the pieces i need to replace in and match em up, (hey Im noob to air brakes). Go to the BiGGEST truck dealer in the area, where the kid behind the counter says to me, *Ive worked here 2 years and never seen brakes like that* Ok fine, so Ill just have to have the one set relined... later... how about lug nuts and studs cause 2 are broken or missing. 

Note: just budd wheels nothing fancy

2 ****ing hours later....

after sending the kid back 4 times to find 2 each of right and left thimbles, and right and left nuts, you know standard gods damned truck lug nuts

Annnd 3 times to find the nuts for the new studs, clearly marked on the big picture on the counter in front of me, at 1-1 scale even

The studs they dont have 

Bushings they only have plastic

So, they send out to the next store 1hr drive away...

Please note, it probably would have saved me time to drive all the way to the other store, then to wait for these morons to figure out simple stuff, as it was i still needed to come back later tonight to pic up the parts they didnt have in stock

Remember dudes been there 2 years, and cant identify BUDD wHEELS! 

In all 6 hours lost just finding parts, 3 of which just from shear incompetence... 

Next time Ill drive the hour north for parts. Ironically the store that dont have the parts, is bigger, and in a port city


----------



## northmanlogging

not to mention the 4 tries in finding the correct slack adjusters


----------



## Skeans

Budd is a brand stud pilot might help them out, then you have hub, and Dayton style.


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## northmanlogging

The other thing...

Found a "shim" where the bushing should go, some jack ass cut up an stp can and completely blocked the grease ports, also causing the old plastic bushing to collapse onto the s cam. And they added springs between the slacks and cans.

Its amazing what just a little grease can solve


----------



## SliverPicker

Dang! I bet you were jumpin up and down by the time you left that shop.


----------



## northmanlogging

welp

only been a week plus of wrenching, but finally moved the excavator on my ownsome today

just had to rebuild the trailer brake valve first thing in the morning...


----------



## northmanlogging

Vid later


----------



## northmanlogging

Vid later


----------



## rngrchad

northmanlogging said:


> Vid laterView attachment 666231


Oouuuch! Wtf


----------



## Skeans

Almost looks like a dawg found your hand or you hand found the dawg either way ouch.


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## northmanlogging

this was supposed to go in falling pics, but **** happened, the pic above is the aftermath of pushing that running chain away from my face.

Logging is dangerous and stuff... and I should probably buy a lottery ticket, or a cape

Spring boards are never real safe to begin with, and wrong handing the saw is doubly unsafe, but needs must risk and reward etc, learn from my mistakes


----------



## rwoods

Glad it was your palm instead of your finger or face. Also glad you didn’t get cut much worse. 

50 years ago I cut my thumb almost completely off at the main joint. I held it on on the trip to the er. It hurt when bumped for over ten years and I still find myself from time to time unconsciously grabbing and holding it as if it were still dangling loose.

Any second thoughts about whether it would have been safer to cut the small stem first.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Meh bout the same one to the other, both sides need boards, both sides are too narrow to squeeze the saw into.

Ill just have to think a little harder before yanking on the saw to pull it out of the cut.

Really though the big side is marginally safer, as it was leaning a little harder, and had the weight to pull itself free of the little stem, the little stem needs to get chucked into standing leave trees, making it more likely to get hung up, so meh


----------



## rwoods

Just wondering. Twas’t there nor qualified, just thinking to myself about falling the small one first to make a perch to fall the big one. Boards are for folks who know more than me and who are more sure footed. Thanks, Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Boards aren't so bad, they are bendy and a little strange to stand on, cause of the flex, but not so bad, unless you look down

The bad thing about them is you really don't have anywhere to go except jump if things go sideways, and you're stuck pretty close to the tree, so maneuvering the saw can be a little awkward, but some planning and forethought help


----------



## northmanlogging

Dont even bother unless you have calked boots though, anything else is too slippery on the saw chips.


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Just wondering. Twas’t there nor qualified, just thinking to myself about falling the small one first to make a perch to fall the big one. Boards are for folks who know more than me and who are more sure footed. Thanks, Ron



Boards are handy and once you get used to them you can move around pretty good. I always liked a wider board than Matt uses but I'm a klutz and need the extra room.
Getting a board set right and still being tight enough to not wobble much and yet be able to jump-move it when you need to is key. 
I always liked to use two boards whenever possible.

And, like Matt said, getting off the board quickly and with some measure of grace is always the hardest part. I've seen...and done...some pretty spectacular crash landings coming off of a board.


----------



## RandyMac

the first 10 feet is the easy part.


----------



## northmanlogging

Its that graceful land.... never mind anything involving grace eludes me


----------



## rwoods

I once had the thought of building some spring boards but it was just a fleeting thought. Thankfully. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

sold off some equipment over the last couple days, the ole 5yd dumper truck found a new home with an enterprising neighbor

The real fun story is the old electric braked trailer went down the road today, sold it around noon. Ran down bellow to get some lunch groceries and spend some money at the farmers supply oh and retrieve the fire truck from one of the last jobs (past fire season its not needed anymore).

So were gone like 3 hours, as we were leaving town noticed that the dudes what bought it pulled into NAPA, I figured cause their trucks wiring was set up different (RV vs heavy equipment) welp they made it across the street, hopefully to get themselfs some lunch cause they had a 4 hour drive home, but knowing that trailer it pulled some sort of back flip and broke something on them...

Anyway their tail lights were working as I drove by, didnt stop as i didnt want them to give it back to me

Good news is I think I might have room to park all my junk at the house now, at least the road legal stuff... Gods I need an acre and a shop


----------



## 2dogs

Strange. I was looking up info on brown cubical rot in redwoods on bing. When I searched the images, seven of them were pics I had taken and posted in various places on the web. I guess I can now cite myself as an expert in the subject. Like hell.


----------



## rwoods

Hey, it is on the net so it must be true. Ron


----------



## catbuster

Spot my boo boo... Never fails, especially when I’m on someone else’s machine.

At least the youngling dog still loves me.


----------



## catbuster

FAAAAHCK! I bet @northmanlogging knows what happened. 

Also, I remembered why I stay out of the chainsaw forum today.


----------



## rwoods

I assume you left a drill bit sitting on the tire and it created that little hole at 2:00. What happen in the politicalsaw, I mean chainsaw, forum? Ron


----------



## rwoods

Never mind, I see the oil conspiracy dispute. Ron


----------



## catbuster

rwoods said:


> I assume you left a drill bit sitting on the tire and it created that little hole at 2:00. What happen in the politicalsaw, I mean chainsaw, forum? Ron



Nah, I ****ed the backhoe tire back right before Christmas... I think the post says it’s from the 22nd. At least it wasn’t my machine, but I wasn’t getting paid much to run it either. It’s a John Deere anyway, who cares? If it was Power Tan I would have been upset. Backhoe tires aren’t awefully expensive and that rim was already messed up. It does have a chunk out of the sidewall but all it did was knock it off the bead. 

That last post was an end mill, it started life off with a square end. I was machining some spacer plates for a bush hog gearbox... Getting close to johnson grass knock down time again.

My setup wasn’t ridgid enough, nor was I using anything to clear chips during the pass since it was such a short run and I was running 1/2” carbide in the old Bridgeport and it chattered, grabbed some chips, tried to shove them between the flutes and promptly snapped it right off. That’s a $57 tool, that I might be able to regrind but it’s missing over half the usable cutting area so I think I’ll be sending it to the “art” bin.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> FAAAAHCK! I bet @northmanlogging knows what happened.
> 
> Also, I remembered why I stay out of the chainsaw forum today.


Feed rate to aggressive (read rapid travel) or sketchy work holding, that or trying to use an endmill as a drill and or reamer.

Adversely, seen way to many "experienced" machinists use reamers as end mills... which sadly works better then one might think, but still not a trick I would pull unless dire macgyver circumstances.

Life is far better in the woods!


----------



## catbuster

God damn trucks are expensive. Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t a crummy, but it’s just an XLT without many add ons.

I could buy a decent 160 for not much more than that.


----------



## northmanlogging

buy used, let someone else take the hit on resale, interiors can be detailed (used to work next door to a place that would clean up after dead people... cars houses boats suicide, murder etc) you'd never know there was a bloody corpse in the car a week before you bought it...


----------



## DSW

catbuster said:


> God damn trucks are expensive. Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t a crummy, but it’s just an XLT without many add ons.
> 
> I could buy a decent 160 for not much more than that.



It has to be demand. 

I've been wrong before but I recall a time where a small car was 20k and a full size 4x4 pickup was 30k. Now a small car is........20k, and a full size pickup is............. 50-60k. 

And that's gas. God forbid a guy want's a diesel.


----------



## catbuster

DSW said:


> It has to be demand.
> 
> I've been wrong before but I recall a time where a small car was 20k and a full size 4x4 pickup was 30k. Now a small car is........20k, and a full size pickup is............. 50-60k.
> 
> And that's gas. God forbid a guy want's a diesel.



All-State in Louisville sells the F-250 4x4, with the diesel, a step above base model (STX) for $49,000 all day long. I don’t know how, but they do. The truck I built up there was a diesel, too. Here's the link (while this truck is still for sale): https://www.allstateford.com/new/Fo...20a0e0adf2631514f70b7d9a8.htm?searchDepth=1:7

If that truck had a long bed, and the “camper package” I probably would have bought it by now. (Camper package: extra rear springs, F-250s squat way down with any sort of pin weight, albeit their GVWR is 10,000 so no DOT physical or commercial insurance where you need with a 350-the first depending on how its registered and the second depending on what state you’re in. They’re both ******** but that’s for another time.)

You can get a base model diesel 3/4 ton 4x4 for $45,000. Some dealers will actually deal, and others won’t come off MSRP at all. All-State does a lot of fleet sales and moves high volumes of vehicles. They get economies of scale. Tri-County that’s 30 miles away, close to my house and shop might sell a dozen 3/4 or 1 ton trucks a year. They don’t come much off MSRP at all.

The truck I just sold, was $42,000 new in 2002. It was a 350, diesel, Lariat dually. Now a Lariat with the same stuff (like the one dad just bought) is $65-70,000. That’s essentially pricing keeping up with inflation, or a little more, mind you a Lariat today has a lot more stuff on it than it did in 2002. Now, wage growth generally has fallen well below the inflation rate. Some of that is due to the stuff that occurred in 2008, some of it, well, that belongs in another forum because business practices and ethics tend to become a hotly debated topic. That’s the reality, and why this stuff is so hard to afford.

It’s just a pain in the ass.


----------



## Skeans

catbuster said:


> All-State in Louisville sells the F-250 4x4, with the diesel, a step above base model (STX) for $49,000 all day long. I don’t know how, but they do. The truck I built up there was a diesel, too. Here's the link (while this truck is still for sale): https://www.allstateford.com/new/Fo...20a0e0adf2631514f70b7d9a8.htm?searchDepth=1:7
> 
> If that truck had a long bed, and the “camper package” I probably would have bought it by now. (Camper package: extra rear springs, F-250s squat way down with any sort of pin weight, albeit their GVWR is 10,000 so no DOT physical or commercial insurance where you need with a 350-the first depending on how its registered and the second depending on what state you’re in. They’re both ******** but that’s for another time.)
> 
> You can get a base model diesel 3/4 ton 4x4 for $45,000. Some dealers will actually deal, and others won’t come off MSRP at all. All-State does a lot of fleet sales and moves high volumes of vehicles. They get economies of scale. Tri-County that’s 30 miles away, close to my house and shop might sell a dozen 3/4 or 1 ton trucks a year. They don’t come much off MSRP at all.
> 
> The truck I just sold, was $42,000 new in 2002. It was a 350, diesel, Lariat dually. Now a Lariat with the same stuff (like the one dad just bought) is $65-70,000. That’s essentially pricing keeping up with inflation, or a little more, mind you a Lariat today has a lot more stuff on it than it did in 2002. Now, wage growth generally has fallen well below the inflation rate. Some of that is due to the stuff that occurred in 2008, some of it, well, that belongs in another forum because business practices and ethics tend to become a hotly debated topic. That’s the reality, and why this stuff is so hard to afford.
> 
> It’s just a pain in the ass.



My 16 1 ton singles duramax ltz crew cab long box out the door was 50 end of the year special. The 18 f150 with the 2.7 eco boost extra cab short box was 28 another end of the year special.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## catbuster

Skeans said:


> My 16 1 ton singles duramax ltz crew cab long box out the door was 50 end of the year special. The 18 f150 with the 2.7 eco boost extra cab short box was 28 another end of the year special.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



That would be awesome, but I need something to throw my L tank, tool boxes & gang box in and roll. Not that the company truck is bad, but I miss my Sirius radio. 

In all seriousness though, I have given Chevy a long look, and I may end up with a crew cab/long bed. But man, that’s a long truck, albeit I’ve been driving that as a dually for a while now. Or I might just eat not having as long a bed, haul some tools in the cab and buy the truck from All-State. I don’t drag around a gooseneck really anymore so that little bit of extra swing doesn’t matter as much. 

With that said, and I’ll take the tongue lashing for sounding like a prude, but I’ll walk that back. Tools go in the boxes in the bed. Not the cab. So, long bed for sure. 

Choices suck too.


----------



## Skeans

catbuster said:


> That would be awesome, but I need something to throw my L tank, tool boxes & gang box in and roll. Not that the company truck is bad, but I miss my Sirius radio.
> 
> In all seriousness though, I have given Chevy a long look, and I may end up with a crew cab/long bed. But man, that’s a long truck, albeit I’ve been driving that as a dually for a while now. Or I might just eat not having as long a bed, haul some tools in the cab and buy the truck from All-State. I don’t drag around a gooseneck really anymore so that little bit of extra swing doesn’t matter as much.
> 
> With that said, and I’ll take the tongue lashing for sounding like a prude, but I’ll walk that back. Tools go in the boxes in the bed. Not the cab. So, long bed for sure.
> 
> Choices suck too.



If it wasn’t for the family and all the books/paperwork I have to carry on the daily I would gone to the extra cab long box, length wise it’s the same as a crew short box. I’m in the same boat with a 100 gallon tank, then I have a fifth wheel under rail toolbox on top of the tank, plus the fifth wheel hitch in all the time no two ways around the long box.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jhenderson

DSW said:


> It has to be demand.
> 
> I've been wrong before but I recall a time where a small car was 20k and a full size 4x4 pickup was 30k. Now a small car is........20k, and a full size pickup is............. 50-60k.
> 
> And that's gas. God forbid a guy want's a diesel.



My first brand new 1/2 ton 4x4 pickup cost $6,200. My buddy bought bought a 3/4 ton for $6,700.


----------



## DSW

catbuster said:


> That would be awesome, but I need something to throw my L tank, tool boxes & gang box in and roll. Not that the company truck is bad, but I miss my Sirius radio.
> 
> In all seriousness though, I have given Chevy a long look, and I may end up with a crew cab/long bed. But man, that’s a long truck, albeit I’ve been driving that as a dually for a while now. Or I might just eat not having as long a bed, haul some tools in the cab and buy the truck from All-State. I don’t drag around a gooseneck really anymore so that little bit of extra swing doesn’t matter as much.
> 
> With that said, and I’ll take the tongue lashing for sounding like a prude, but I’ll walk that back. Tools go in the boxes in the bed. Not the cab. So, long bed for sure.
> 
> Choices suck too.




I couldn't live without an 8 foot bed. 

Maybe in a Toyota run around, because those trucks are in a different category, but I would still have a truck that had an 8 foot bed.


----------



## RandyMac

I've running the hell out of a '96 Ranger, 6 foot box, I consider it a one mule buckboard, but she hauls whatever will fit in that box.
She is a serious little truck, however 6 feet is too short, need a trailer.


----------



## catbuster

Some days you just can’t win. Just got kicked in the teeth and almost had a serious financial calamity, as in enough to go out of business. Right towards the end of what had been a good year too.

I hate laying people off, but this winter into next year may be one of downsizing.


----------



## madhatte

Ain't new, friend. Much sympathy.


----------



## catbuster

madhatte said:


> Ain't new, friend. Much sympathy.



Foreman & estimator got fired too. 

The weather sucked, with the two wettest springs and the wettest fall on record, which slowed us way down given that we were doing drainage.

Oh well. All the bills are paid, even if I was all but $640 left in the bank. Anyway, back at it tomorrow.


----------



## madhatte

Hang in there, yo.


----------



## northmanlogging

got a letter yesterday telling me the northwest hardwoods mill in burlington is closing, thanks entirely to tariffs BTW, last i heard the exporter, as in the only exporter in the area is struggling as well

Heres hoping we all make it through the winter

I haven't cut timber in 3 weeks... but I'm lucky with the truck driving thing....


----------



## Jhenderson

So much for putting all your eggs in one basket. Our hardwood mills are still producing every day. They just aren’t stuffing containers with logs headed for China. Doesn’t hurt my feelings a bit.


----------



## northmanlogging

annd the export yard is shut down

this effects prices for domestic wood as well.


----------



## Jhenderson

You write as if I don’t sell hardwood logs. Tell me something I don’t already know.


----------



## northmanlogging

oh i'm sorry, the ignore function on this site is really good

I was writing as if you don't exist.


----------



## Jhenderson

Then there was no reason for your reply. Very telling.


----------



## northmanlogging

Lost one of my self loader jockeys recently.

He was building a new truck, installing the loader, something came loose and got him...

Dude hauled logs for my granpappy back in the 60's


----------



## northmanlogging

This be the guy


----------



## rwoods

Sad. Ron


----------



## catbuster

God damn. That’s always unexpected. 

Good luck finding another hauler with that skill.


----------



## Joe46

northmanlogging said:


> Lost one of my self loader jockeys recently.
> 
> He was building a new truck, installing the loader, something came loose and got him...
> 
> Dude hauled logs for my granpappy back in the 60's


Haven't been on here for a long time Northy. Sorry to read about the loss of your friend. Guessing it didn't make the local Tacoma paper I take, and I don't watch TV.


----------



## catbuster

Walked into the shop this morning... Somebody pissed off one of my shop guys recently.


----------



## northmanlogging

Ya all ever get that gut feeling of, I better get a contract on this one?

But when you make your offer contingent on a contract... the client gets cold feet?


----------



## BlackCoffin

northmanlogging said:


> Ya all ever get that gut feeling of, I better get a contract on this one?
> 
> But when you make your offer contingent on a contract... the client gets cold feet?


The gut is a good thing to follow.


----------



## rwoods

Northman, at 17:20 is just what you need. I wish I had one. 

Ron


----------



## catbuster

Yeah, I’ve given a few estimates on those. The owners usually request some sort of change order if they do sign a contract too.


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Northman, at 17:20 is just what you need. I wish I had one.
> 
> Ron



yeah... got a trainee, but 4 years on the job, he taint smart enough to get his own leash let alone bring me muh saw gas... I mean he eats poop... and seems to like it.


----------



## rwoods

I understand.

My feral pup three years ago. Notice how taut the lead is. Will eat out of my hand but he is still too skittish to let you pet him. 



Ron


----------



## TheDarkLordChinChin

That Life of Alaskan Loggers documentary is brilliant.
Really looks like and idyllic place to live, like something out of Northern Exposure.


----------



## catbuster

Apparently my laces wanted me to wear an eight inch boot today. I really like the way these newer boots broke in though.

I still don’t have a good way to get the schmoo buildup from boot grease off. Those boots started with a rough out lower.


----------



## northmanlogging

Thats the joy of rough out, they look skookum as frig when new, then get roughed up a little and packed full of grease, and still look good and tough as nails.


----------



## catbuster

It was icy this morning. Tried the F-350, spun out at the bottom of the grade. Fired up the 6 thinking I’d skim the top off, slid into the ditch a few feet up, hung on the belly pan. Didn’t even try to get it out, or get the 336 up the hill to pull it out. It’s got a set of triple bar grousers on and slides around on wet clay. It’s not going anywhere on ice. Said **** it and went to the shop. Called the guys and told them it would be a shop day at 7:00. We’re starting at 8:00 this time of year, so much for that standard time and the sun being up earlier, huh?

The shop is cleaner than it has been in about a year and I have two new beds welded into dump trucks. It was a good day.


----------



## rwoods

Glad it turned out well for you. Hope the recovery does as well. We have rain down here. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Ye Ole essavator took a dump on me this morning, hopefully just a sensor, I've been fighting with it for a year or so, and its finally gone completely ****... Pape wants $661. for it, Ebay wants $58... shipping time is identical... fair to say I'm completely done with the johnny Deere dealer... I do a better job of looking up parts anyway

So I hop in the self loader, where I almost immediatly tore the end off the stick cylinder... then having to unload the 3 little logs with not stick control... cause no way in Hell they were riding back to the barn with me... 

Spent the better part of the last 3 hours running the 1" impact the wrong way trying to get the massive not that hold the cylinder on off... this is after dropping $350 on one impact socket and a 1" breaker bar to go with it

Its still not loose

I fear in the morning I'm going to have to cut the nut and possible the bolt too, so I can line the end up with the ram and weld it all back together correctly

it appears to have happened before, and the welds are less then ideal


----------



## northmanlogging

Truck is currently blocking one lane of the cul-de-sac I live on... cause I ****ing need a shop, hopefully I can get it apart cleaned up and properly welded to go retrieve that load tomorrow... I'm not holding my breath though


also, I just realized most of my typos are the letter S... cause I can't really feel that fanger... cause guitar...


----------



## catbuster

As my 67 year old foreman contiuously reminds me- “Dude you need a beer and a blowjob.” That advice is probably sound for you as well today.


----------



## northmanlogging

no beer...

so anyway, pissing down rain today, warm rain, but a lot of it

any of ya'll ever stick weld with wet gloves on, while 6' up a ladder, and still welding overhead

I don't suggest it.


----------



## northmanlogging

so the welds held...

pulled the truck sideways trying to gyppo yard a couple of these...


----------



## catbuster

I worked alone today. The more hand work I have to do the more I think I need a 7,000 pound mini excavator, or a return to the woods on a full-time basis, or both.

Also, mmmmm silicosis, and I got my nice new(er) Frank’s dirty.


----------



## northmanlogging

pft silicosis isn't that bad...

what in all Hel are you hand digging that crud for?


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> pft silicosis isn't that bad...
> 
> what in all Hel are you hand digging that crud for?


My smallest digging tool that isn’t a shovel is a 580 Case backhoe. I couldn’t wiggle it back into a few spots and had to move the chit where the backhoe could pull it out. I was also a long way from the shop and didn’t want to go get a big enough rotary saw to cut 8” concrete into pieces easy to chunk out.

One of my competitors takes a Yanmar ViO 35 to every job. I understand why after this. That cute little excavator fits almost anywhere and could have done in an hour what I did in seven. It also helps that it can be moved down the road without a CDL at greater than 25 miles per hour.


----------



## woodfarmer

Hard to get a good video placing the cell phone in a tree, but you get the idea. Woods ported 2152 running a 20” .325 bar and chain in hard maple.


----------



## northmanlogging

ignore the log... tell me what's wrong here


----------



## catbuster

I don’t think yer back outer rim is supposed to look like that, boss. I’ve seen bent rims before, but never like that. I hope it’s not your truck. 

It just occurred to me that I’ve been CDL’d for close to half my life. That’s a weird thought.


----------



## catbuster

It’s alright, I drove a truck with a 10 speed that’s just a 5 stacked on top of the low range for the first time in a long time Monday... Early morning. Apparently starting to float into reverse because you blew past the barely existant spring pressure and went up and to the left where ya meet some resistance like an 8, 9, 13 or 18 speed when you just went up into high range is bad for the truck.


----------



## northmanlogging

That big fir log may of had a few feet head start before it reached the wheel...

Pretty much every vehicle I own is a manual trans, all of them have a different shift pattern, the closest is the War Dept's beloved Volvo, which is like a 4sp version of a 13/18spd (cause who uses low 1st anyway) even has a button for overdrive, and the forskin thing for reverse lockout, so I keep floating gears when I drive it... the War Dept gets mad at me lol.

The worst would be jumping from my dump truck, which is a deep reduction 13spd, but drives normally like a 10spd to an old style real 13spd, cause the shifters are identical, but the 3 way positioner is laid out different... A low low low (hey pa, are we even ****ing moving low), B direct, C High vs A direct, B High, C overdrive, and you forget about 1st gear spot... but not on deep reduction 13 oh no... that dude is important...


----------



## northmanlogging

Or the really annoying one is Larry the dozer, 2 stick shifter, too fast and faster, and forward reverse... but some smart ass made reverse the forward postion... grrr


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> Or the really annoying one is Larry the dozer, 2 stick shifter, too fast and faster, and forward reverse... but some smart ass made reverse the forward postion... grrr



It pains me to admit it, but I’m not god’s gift to driving a manual transmission. I need some time in a specific truck, or at least that transmission or I’ll look like a moron for the first ten minutes to a half hour trying to figure out how many RPM between gears and where the engine likes to be shifted. I learned on an 18 speed, drove them or the 8LL seemingly forever and it’s almost ingrained in my motor skills as that’s how a heavy truck shifts. Synchro boxes are a different story.

I have a friend with two antique tractors. One is a Peterbilt that has a 3408 Cat with a Spicer 5x4, twin sticks. The other is a KW W900 with a buzzin’ dozen and a 6x4. In the KW if you go to wave at somebody you’re either lugging it or winding it way out. The same guy has a Mack CF telesquirt with the big Mack 892 V8 and a 5 speed Mack transmission. That thing is fun. The gears have been ground enough where there’s some slop and you can probably have it ~100 RPM off and it goes nicely into gear.


----------



## northmanlogging

I got a bunch of spruce pitch in my beard...

but it smell good so I keep picking at it so I can smell it

Sitka spruce is by far my favorite smelling tree... topping even Doug Fir


----------



## northmanlogging

I got a bunch of spruce pitch in my beard...

but it smells good so I keep picking at it so I can smell it

Sitka spruce is by far my favorite smelling tree... topping even Doug Fir


----------



## rwoods

Double post, NM. Maybe you should back off the spruce sniffing a little. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

weird? my puters been strange lately


----------



## rwoods

Just have fun with you, my friend. 

I feel your pain. Computers and me don't get along well. I have an iPad that is possessed. Can't watch a YouTube to conclusion without it flicking from application to application. Even types passwords and Google searches on its own. Rebooting will fix it momentarily then it takes off again. Daughter's boyfriend says it is the digitizer whatever that is. Go on YouTube and I can fix it myself. While holding up her now partially functioning phone, my daughter just shakes her head and says don't let him (BF) touch it.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Just have fun with you, my friend.
> 
> I feel your pain. Computers and me don't get along well. I have an iPad that is possessed. Can't watch a YouTube to conclusion without it flicking from application to application. Even types passwords and Google searches on its own. Rebooting will fix it momentarily then it takes off again. Daughter's boyfriend says it is the digitizer whatever that is. Go on YouTube and I can fix it myself. While holding up her now partially functioning phone, my daughter just shakes her head and says don't let him (BF) touch it.
> 
> Ron


I was ok with puters at one time, early windows stuff, even Dos... but I've been away from it for awhile, and it seems every new system has its own language you have to learn... and all the hot keys I depended on don't work... I'm NOT THAT OLD fer fawks sake


----------



## northmanlogging

its sunday... 10:30, knee still not 100%, spent most of yesterday adjusting brakes and greasing both trucks, including loader (the loader is a trapeze act on a good day, add in only being able to climb with one leg well)

Today, I get to crawl back under the Dumb truck to do some overhead welding on the fabricobbled exhaust. and I really don't wanna

Should have done it yesterday, but some moron took out a power pole, so power was out from like 11am to after 9pm... While I have the engine drive, MIG makes a better exhaust weld... and damnit I was already tired


----------



## catbuster

I hate it when the idiots decide it’s their time to cream a pole. Especially when I’m in district, at night, making fire calls.

All I have to complain about is being rudely awakened at 03:19 this morning and being the only person to show at our station... When our two stations are covering the whole south side of the county.


----------



## northmanlogging

buy a log truck they said it'll be awesome they said


----------



## Jhenderson

On the bright side, the gear looks to be in great shape.


----------



## Oliver Durand

Well, are you gonna tell us about it?


----------



## rwoods

The alignment looks a little off - nothing you can't fix I bet. Wrenching and solo logging go hand and hand I am told. Sorry for the set back. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Oliver Durand said:


> Well, are you gonna tell us about it?


I guess...
Friday I was hauling the excavator to a new job, started making noise in overdrive. 

then in low range it started really making noise...

got the excavator unloaded, but now I'm 40 miles from home, with the equipment trailer in tow, all told about 48000# (self loaders are heavy and so is my equipment trailer)

well direct drive works fine, and overdrive is working ok, so bomb down the freeway, and head up the hill to home

where some moron decides to stop in the middle of the steepest part of the steepest hill and let a pedestrian cross... who had no intention of crossing I might add.

Well by now its obvious low range wants nothing to do with this trip, but direct isn't going to get me rolling on this hill... so pop er in low, she makes a few horriffic crunches but its enough to get me up into low gear but in direct drive...

get the trailer parked (about a mile from home) and limp her the rest of the way home...

where I need to back down my street cause its a dead end...

by now low range isn't working at all and 90w oil is leaking pretty good...

Anyway that was Friday, today I figured I need to get her to a shop, cause I'm not equipped to pull a truck trans here (they are big and very heavy and all I got is gravel and sand to work in let alone a massive trans jack)

So I fire the beasty up and Hel or high water try for the 20 miles to the nearest truck mechanic....

... I made it about 7 miles before the top of the aux box came loose and cut an air line, smoke rolling off the exhaust from the oil splashing all over it lol... pulled her onto the shoulder and called in the cavalry...

That 7 miles did likely save me $2-300 in tow bill as its all windy back roads...

Anyhow she's at the mechanic's now looking at a rebuilt trans and a couple days labor

Did I mention I'm already broke, as I just spent the better part of the last week putting new chains a sprockets on the excavator (solo is a terrible way to get that job done... i suggest bringing a dumb friend thats good at lifting heavy things and hitting them with hammers)


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> The alignment looks a little off - nothing you can't fix I bet. Wrenching and solo logging go hand and hand I am told. Sorry for the set back. Ron


Well, for the record, this will be only the second time I've ever taken something to a shop for repairs, besides tires cause... yea they are way faster at it then me and tire balancing is arcane science

This project is simply outside the scope of what I can accomplish on my own (and that is difficult to admit) partly for lack of tools and space, and partly for a serious lack of time, even if I had the tools to pull it off it would take at least 3 days if everything went smooth and I didn't need to chase to many parts. 

At a minimum I would need 2 6 ton or better jack stands($90 ea), and a truck trans jack ($1300 for 1.5 ton trans jack) roughly $1500 in one time use tooling... meanwhile 15 hours shop time is...$1500

This doesn't include a 30' level concrete slab to park the truck on... and a new creeper, cause they don't work so good on gravel I don't have one, or the forklift and or hoist to pick the new trans off the truck when it did get here.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Well, for the record, this will be only the second time I've ever taken something to a shop for repairs, besides tires cause... yea they are way faster at it then me and tire balancing is arcane science
> 
> This project is simply outside the scope of what I can accomplish on my own (and that is difficult to admit) partly for lack of tools and space, and partly for a serious lack of time, even if I had the tools to pull it off it would take at least 3 days if everything went smooth and I didn't need to chase to many parts.
> 
> At a minimum I would need 2 6 ton or better jack stands($90 ea), and a truck trans jack ($1300 for 1.5 ton trans jack) roughly $1500 in one time use tooling... meanwhile 15 hours shop time is...$1500
> 
> This doesn't include a 30' level concrete slab to park the truck on... and a new creeper, cause they don't work so good on gravel I don't have one, or the forklift and or hoist to pick the new trans off the truck when it did get here.



Plus the flywheel being turned and maybe a clutch.


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## Tannerbob

Use some of them plywood sheets you guys throw and borrow a jack. I’ve done it more than I care to admit in my yard doing that but I have my own jack. Double up the sheets and your good to go. Little over a day to day and a half tops if you don’t have to run to much for parts. I also understand about not having time and the comfort of paying the job done and not worrying about it also. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

Tannerbob said:


> Use some of them plywood sheets you guys throw and borrow a jack. I’ve done it more than I care to admit in my yard doing that but I have my own jack. Double up the sheets and your good to go. Little over a day to day and a half tops if you don’t have to run to much for parts. I also understand about not having time and the comfort of paying the job done and not worrying about it also.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


maybe for a pick up truck, or car, and maybe on level ground, the trans on this thing weighs more then a geo metro, Hel i've done several trans geo's, ferd vans, 5 yard dumb trucks, in the driveway where I currently live, all of them much much smaller then this one, with and without plywood lol

Also, I don't throw plywood for my projects... i tear up yards and driveways... I don't trim rose bushes with a glorified ATV fitted with a pallet jack


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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Plus the flywheel being turned and maybe a clutch.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


gonna just ignore the clutch... its behind the brake saver, which is basically another trans removal... and I'm already broke

never worn a clutch out, shredded a few, and had other folks ruin them for me ("hey dude can I borrow your van"... "can you drive a manual" "uh sure..." ring, ring..."hey man uh theres smoke coming out of your engine and we can't make it up the hill into our driveway and its been smelling funny the last 50 miles")


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## Tannerbob

I’m talking big stuff also. Eaton 18913a and a 20918b on the ground doing it how I described it. I know there is heavier by weight also but they are class 8 truck trannys


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## northmanlogging

Tannerbob said:


> I’m talking big stuff also. Eaton 18913a and a 20918b on the ground doing it how I described it. I know there is heavier by weight also but they are class 8 truck trannys
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The biggest issue, is space, right now both trucks (got a dumb truck too) park on the street, more or less in a ditch, and the driveway is far from level too even if the log truck could fit in the driveway, cause its right around 30' long. 

I don't know about you, but I'm not about to start wrestling a 3000# anvil 2' over my head with nowhere to run attached to a sketchy jack on wheels, thats trying to roll away, or tip over in the sand

and to reiterate, I have no way to move said 3000# anvil once its out of the truck, both my machines are 40 mi away, and the log loader runs off the transmission pto


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## catbuster

Tannerbob said:


> Use some of them plywood sheets you guys throw and borrow a jack. I’ve done it more than I care to admit in my yard doing that but I have my own jack. Double up the sheets and your good to go. Little over a day to day and a half tops if you don’t have to run to much for parts. I also understand about not having time and the comfort of paying the job done and not worrying about it also.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Bud, there isn’t any flat ground where our gyppo lives that hasn’t been leveled with something that says Cat, Deere or Hitachi on the side, those old truck transmissions are pretty damn heavy and what yer suggesting is a good way to get the dude killed. Not that it can’t be done-it most definitely can-but it can’t be done safely where this dude lives. Not by a damn sight.



northmanlogging said:


> gonna just ignore the clutch... its behind the brake saver, which is basically another trans removal... and I'm already broke
> 
> never worn a clutch out, shredded a few, and had other folks ruin them for me ("hey dude can I borrow your van"... "can you drive a manual" "uh sure..." ring, ring..."hey man uh theres smoke coming out of your engine and we can't make it up the hill into our driveway and its been smelling funny the last 50 miles")



What’s floating an 18 speed into low among friends?


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## Tannerbob

catbuster said:


> Bud, there isn’t any flat ground where our gyppo lives that hasn’t be leveled with something that says Cat, Deere or Hitachi on the side, those old truck transmissions are pretty damn heavy and what yer suggesting is a good way to get the dude killed. Not that it can’t be done-it most definitely can-but it can’t be done safely where this dude lives. Not by a damn sight.
> 
> 
> 
> What’s floating an 18 speed into low among friends?



I get that to. He explained the terrain well and wouldn’t want to try it either. 
As for floating an 18, you won’t hurt it or clutch doing that in any gear. It doesn’t have a synchronizer in it. The smaller trannys that have fs or fso and I’m sure other model numbers with an s in it have synchronizers that go out from floating. Wife’s car has a synchro tranny and I still float it without any problems but I don’t drive it much.


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## Skeans

Tannerbob said:


> I get that to. He explained the terrain well and wouldn’t want to try it either.
> As for floating an 18, you won’t hurt it or clutch doing that in any gear. It doesn’t have a synchronizer in it. The smaller trannys that have fs or fso and I’m sure other model numbers with an s in it have synchronizers that go out from floating. Wife’s car has a synchro tranny and I still float it without any problems but I don’t drive it much.



The back box is synchronized in an 18, just like a 13, or a 15.


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## northmanlogging

I think the only real difference between and 18 and a 13 is how the rear section is shifted, mostly its just a lock out that keeps you out of overdrive in low range, just me spit balling here, but the few i've drove didn't seem like the gear ratios were any different, just the 18 let you use OD in low range, and frankly I never did cause its more then a little pointless with 475+ hp even dragging 105,500# unless you find a big long hill and your starting at the bottom 

in direct drive I use OD function all the time the splitter shifts way faster then I can so it is nice for climbing hills or chooching on the freeway, generally try to ignore it when down shifting, and usually skip a gear or more, let them jakes work as long as possible before interrupting them just to shift. 

The 18's are nice cause you can split while grabbing a gear, where a 13 you have to preselect, which can be bothersome but not a big deal

As for synchros, only the auxiliary trans has a syncro, the main box is all straight cut spline on spline action 10-13-15-18spds all the same main box, its the auxiliary box that makes the difference


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## northmanlogging

Tannerbob said:


> I get that to. He explained the terrain well and wouldn’t want to try it either.
> As for floating an 18, you won’t hurt it or clutch doing that in any gear. It doesn’t have a synchronizer in it. The smaller trannys that have fs or fso and I’m sure other model numbers with an s in it have synchronizers that go out from floating. Wife’s car has a synchro tranny and I still float it without any problems but I don’t drive it much.


war dept gets mad at me when I drive her beloved volvo... I mean its got an overdrive button and its a standard H 4 spd so it might as well drive like a truck... that and its a breeze to float gears in

Been more then a couple times that it ate clutch cables and I've had to drive it all the way home without a clutch at all... usually stuck behind a school bus


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## catbuster

I like the 18 speed over the 13 because it can split the low range. Moving a 345 or the 349 that weighs 110-120,000 lb plus tractor, four axle Rogers and the jeep dolly around on steep ground at low speeds it makes life easier even with a 3406 set at 550 and 4.10s on the rear.


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## northmanlogging

30 miles out a basically dead end hwy, narrow 2 lanes (at least its advertised as 2 lanes) Paved? Maybe? if you squint...

Windy, hilly, crooked and and very scenic lol

anyway, at the sketchiest of sketchy blind corners the air line to my trailer decides its had enough and punches the clock one last time...

so the whole 88,000# **** show comes to a screaming, smoke filled stop...

Its 2:45 pm, the mill is an hour away on a good day, and they shut down at 4pm

Ruts n futs n gerch olly sons of didly why I oughta...

Anyway, I hop out, to see what the hel just happened and what needs done quick fast in a hurry to get this poorly painted filthy greasy pig off the road before some nut bag on a crotch rocket impales themselves on the 40' hemlock hanging out the back

The very first car, and I mean the very first car, Slams on their brakes and hollers my name... my full real name lol

Da fuQ says I?

anyway one of the nice gurls I went to school with and haven't seen much of if the last 30 or so years lol, Sadly we couldn't catch up as I had to get the truck moved... anyway despite all the mess a bad day in the woods is still a better day then gazing out a factory window


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## rwoods

Glad you are enjoying your occupation - sure makes the rough times easier.

Ron


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## catbuster

I got up this morning, it’s pouring rain and we had some storms overnight. No big deal, didn’t have to cut any blowdown out of the driveway. I go to the office to read through a 463 page design manual (yay...) So at 7:15 I get a call from my foreman/superintendent/whatever title he has today, and he goes “I don’t think you’re going to believe this, but I think the 336 got hit by lightning last night.” I asked how, and he promptly told me that the cab smelled like burned plastic, there was cooked wiring everywhere and it wouldn’t even bring up the startup screen when he changed batteries.

I went out, and, well, he was probably right. Something cooked the electrical system in the excavator. So we promptly loaded up the 345 and the medium stick that carries the thumb on the lowboy, and bullied the dead hoe on the trailer.

How in the hell lightning couldn’t be bothered to hit all the other taller stuff in the area I will never know.


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## Skeans

catbuster said:


> I got up this morning, it’s pouring rain and we had some storms overnight. No big deal, didn’t have to cut any blowdown out of the driveway. I go to the office to read through a 463 page design manual (yay...) So at 7:15 I get a call from my foreman/superintendent/whatever title he has today, and he goes “I don’t think you’re going to believe this, but I think the 336 got hit by lightning last night.” I asked how, and he promptly told me that the cab smelled like burned plastic, there was cooked wiring everywhere and it wouldn’t even bring up the startup screen when he changed batteries.
> 
> I went out, and, well, he was probably right. Something cooked the electrical system in the excavator. So we promptly loaded up the 345 and the medium stick that carries the thumb on the lowboy, and bullied the dead hoe on the trailer.
> 
> How in the hell lightning couldn’t be bothered to hit all the other taller stuff in the area I will never know.



Do Cat’s have a deadman in the cab to kill everything? I’m surprised there’s no fusible link in the system for this.


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## catbuster

Skeans said:


> Do Cat’s have a deadman in the cab to kill everything? I’m surprised there’s no fusible link in the system for this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



There’s a battery master that takes the two pronged Cat key as its fusible link just behind the cab they recommend you turn off and remove when the machine is parked. I don’t know if that would make much difference when the entire machine is energized and providing a path to ground, though.


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## Skeans

catbuster said:


> There’s a battery master that takes the two pronged Cat key as its fusible link just behind the cab they recommend you turn off and remove when the machine is parked. I don’t know if that would make much difference when the entire machine is energized and providing a path to ground, though.



In our harvester it has both a master in the cab for complete kill of the machine, if the cab sees the kind of surge like that it has a fusible link that will blow.


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## rwoods

Not a mechanic nor an electrical engineer, so I learned the hard way that any electronic component that has its own ground needs to have the ground disconnected before welding. I doubt a master disconnect also cuts the ground, but I don’t know.

Once had one of those underground fences to keep my dog contained. The squirrels/skunks/possums kept digging down and biting the wire in two. Manufacturer suggested I replace the stranded wire with solid. I did, but it didn’t stop the nibbling though it did stop the breakage. Then every time we had a thunderstorm the ground fault outlet would trigger and the dog, being a smart one, would tour the countryside. Got tired of that so I plug it into the nearest non-protected outlet - same one that the garage door opener uses. Came home after a thunderstorm. Garage door won’t open. I go inside to find the breaker box door open and an open slot. The circuit breaker was blown through the metal protective cover and was lying at the opposite end of the garage. Long story to say lightning can do strange stuff. 

Ron


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Not a mechanic nor an electrical engineer, so I learned the hard way that any electronic component that has its own ground needs to have the ground disconnected before welding. I doubt a master disconnect also cuts the ground, but I don’t know.
> 
> Once had one of those underground fences to keep my dog contained. The squirrels/skunks/possums kept digging down and biting the wire in two. Manufacturer suggested I replace the stranded wire with solid. I did, but it didn’t stop the nibbling though it did stop the breakage. Then every time we had a thunderstorm the ground fault outlet would trigger and the dog, being a smart one, would tour the countryside. Got tired of that so I plug it into the nearest non-protected outlet - same one that the garage door opener uses. Came home after a thunderstorm. Garage door won’t open. I go inside to find the breaker box door open and an open slot. The circuit breaker was blown through the metal protective cover and was lying at the opposite end of the garage. Long story to say lightning can do strange stuff.
> 
> Ron


See now, I've welding on loads of stuff, and hardly ever disconnected the batteries positive or negative terminal. 

Never had an issue, but I'm also very careful about where I place my ground clamp for welding, generally on the same piece to be welded, or as close to it as possible, current will travel point to point through the least resistance. so any undue ground paths should be avoided.

There are many reasons, least of which that an arc from a moving part to a stationary part, makes 2 stationary parts. as well as arc "blow" and generally grounds lead to crappy welds. 

Could also be that generally speaking most of my welding when batteries are involved is DC- 

AC welding could cause issues? mabye, though i'm pretty sure I've done it with both, though rarely if ever have I used DC+


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## Jhenderson

rwoods said:


> Not a mechanic nor an electrical engineer, so I learned the hard way that any electronic component that has its own ground needs to have the ground disconnected before welding. I doubt a master disconnect also cuts the ground, but I don’t know.
> 
> Once had one of those underground fences to keep my dog contained. The squirrels/skunks/possums kept digging down and biting the wire in two. Manufacturer suggested I replace the stranded wire with solid. I did, but it didn’t stop the nibbling though it did stop the breakage. Then every time we had a thunderstorm the ground fault outlet would trigger and the dog, being a smart one, would tour the countryside. Got tired of that so I plug it into the nearest non-protected outlet - same one that the garage door opener uses. Came home after a thunderstorm. Garage door won’t open. I go inside to find the breaker box door open and an open slot. The circuit breaker was blown through the metal protective cover and was lying at the opposite end of the garage. Long story to say lightning can do strange stuff.
> 
> Ron



A neighbor lost their house in a thunderstorm thanks to a buried dog fence. We couldn’t figure out the strike location until our chief found the trench from the strike in the yard. It led them to the transformer in the basement and the charred floor joist, then up the wall, etc.


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## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> See now, I've welding on loads of stuff, and hardly ever disconnected the batteries positive or negative terminal.
> 
> Never had an issue, but I'm also very careful about where I place my ground clamp for welding, generally on the same piece to be welded, or as close to it as possible, current will travel point to point through the least resistance. so any undue ground paths should be avoided.
> 
> There are many reasons, least of which that an arc from a moving part to a stationary part, makes 2 stationary parts. as well as arc "blow" and generally grounds lead to crappy welds.
> 
> Could also be that generally speaking most of my welding when batteries are involved is DC-
> 
> AC welding could cause issues? mabye, though i'm pretty sure I've done it with both, though rarely if ever have I used DC+



That's the difference between someone who knows what they are doing and someone like me who doesn't. Ron


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## catbuster

Well, It’s at the place formerly known as Whayne Supply and we’ll see how it goes. It does look like there was some sort of deadman that was on the power side of the ignition and whatever hit it jumped across and my mechanic and I agreed not to **** with it, but to just leave the sun and planet gears pulled to unload it easier.

Welding on stuff with electrical systems... Eh. High frequency current can do some wonky stuff (like shock the sh!t out of you), it’s effectively just high voltage AC jumping points to initiate an arc when TIG welding or plasma cutting, and we all know how high voltage acts funky. The thing about HF start is that the current is so low unless the welding is done on something really sensitive it works fine. Ground placement is critical for all the reasons mentioned above. But while I’ve used a stick welder to start equipment (yeah yeah, not recommended) I rarely ever disconnect the batteries to weld or cut anything.


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## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> Well, It’s at the place formerly known as Whayne Supply and we’ll see how it goes. It does look like there was some sort of deadman that was on the power side of the ignition and whatever hit it jumped across and my mechanic and I agreed not to **** with it, but to just leave the sun and planet gears pulled to unload it easier.
> 
> Welding on stuff with electrical systems... Eh. High frequency current can do some wonky stuff (like shock the sh!t out of you), it’s effectively just high voltage AC jumping points to initiate an arc when TIG welding or plasma cutting, and we all know how high voltage acts funky. The thing about HF start is that the current is so low unless the welding is done on something really sensitive it works fine. Ground placement is critical for all the reasons mentioned above. But while I’ve used a stick welder to start equipment (yeah yeah, not recommended) I rarely ever disconnect the batteries to weld or cut anything.


Now, I've tried jumping 24v equipment and... let one of the clamps go astray... makes a pretty skookum welder lol

so I it would reasonably work since welders run around 24V, thought the amps might be a touch high lol.

You can weld with batteries, but you need 2 12v batteries, works fairly will with 1/8 7018 but you won't have a lot of control over amps... and it only really works on one or 2 sticks worth, so make sure you have a way to start yer vehicle.


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## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> Now, I've tried jumping 24v equipment and... let one of the clamps go astray... makes a pretty skookum welder lol
> 
> so I it would reasonably work since welders run around 24V, thought the amps might be a touch high lol.
> 
> You can weld with batteries, but you need 2 12v batteries, works fairly will with 1/8 7018 but you won't have a lot of control over amps... and it only really works on one or 2 sticks worth, so make sure you have a way to start yer vehicle.



A Miller Trailblazer 325 will start a cold D7 like it doesn’t even need batteries with stinger & ground on the respective booster lugs, the important part is to get them off... Fast, otherwise there’s the risk of overcharging the batteries & them blowing up. The older Cat dozers like yours would be a scary thing to try with the two big ass batteries right there to the right of the seat.


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## Skeans

catbuster said:


> A Miller Trailblazer 325 will start a cold D7 like it doesn’t even need batteries with stinger & ground on the respective booster lugs, the important part is to get them off... Fast, otherwise there’s the risk of overcharging the batteries & them blowing up. The older Cat dozers like yours would be a scary thing to try with the two big ass batteries right there to the right of the seat.



Try that on a newer machine or something with a harvester head I’ll bet your day will be worse then a set of batteries.


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## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> A Miller Trailblazer 325 will start a cold D7 like it doesn’t even need batteries with stinger & ground on the respective booster lugs, the important part is to get them off... Fast, otherwise there’s the risk of overcharging the batteries & them blowing up. The older Cat dozers like yours would be a scary thing to try with the two big ass batteries right there to the right of the seat.


Sadly, Larry (the pushy dozer) has been moved to other owners...

The pony motor on it had some issues, namely the 6v starter didn't like 12v all day every day to get past the craptastic carburetor... The last time I got him started took a long hill and a Cat 220 excavator... but only a spritz of ether (not really sure that was necessary) well... actually... He ran from Granite Falls, to Shelton WA without a hiccup, got him off the trailer, and was teaching new owner the very minimal basics, and he popped the clutch with both feet firmly planted on the steer brakes... 2 mid sized trucks pushing and pulling later he fired up again... which was my cue to vacate with the cash lol.

I half wonder if jumping a welder straight to a starter would be better? Or I guess its the kind of deal where you would need 4 hands, 2 to hit the key and 2 to hold the cables until it fires and let er go


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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Try that on a newer machine or something with a harvester head I’ll bet your day will be worse then a set of batteries.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


mathematically it would work, alternators generally only push 100 amps or so, so set the welder low, and stick machines already run at around 24v so a modern machine would probably be just dandy.

Hel I'd even try it direct to starter with a 12v machine... starter won't like it much, but it will sure turn the motor fast enough to ignore glow plugs and everything else lol


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> mathematically it would work, alternators generally only push 100 amps or so, so set the welder low, and stick machines already run at around 24v so a modern machine would probably be just dandy.
> 
> Hel I'd even try it direct to starter with a 12v machine... starter won't like it much, but it will sure turn the motor fast enough to ignore glow plugs and everything else lol



I know some guys that have jumped newer machines and fried the computers in them.


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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> I know some guys that have jumped newer machines and fried the computers in them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


while possible, its more then likely because they hooked the cables up wrong. 

battery to battery, never fear, "hooking to ground" if you get that backwards you just bought a computer. 

Once right around 9/11 (as in shortly after) when security was still a madhouse, I dropped a friend off at the airport in a battered rusty 78 F-100, that had a weak starter... every cop in the place refused to give me a jump and threatened to have the truck towed if I didn't have it moved in 15 minutes... luckily I was able to rent a jump box at the bottom floor of the airport... and get the truck going in time
The cost of ignorance is apparently running down 4 flights of stairs, and about a mile while carrying a massive industrial jump pack. (note: this is after my leg got crushed)

I've never fried a computer, and i've jumped 24-12 and 12-24 12 to 6 positive ground to negative ground, (granted all the 6v stuff didn't have computers, but the truck I jumped em with does)

The only time there has ever been an issue it was dark, the abandoned wreck we were attempting to take to town (with no door, no glass, and no drivers seat at least one flat tire) didn't have a battery, and I hooked the cables wrong... There was sparks, a lot of smoke, and then fire, but the mouse that lived in the dash finally left (note, we both had working vehicles... but it sure would have been funny)


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> while possible, its more then likely because they hooked the cables up wrong.
> 
> battery to battery, never fear, "hooking to ground" if you get that backwards you just bought a computer.
> 
> Once right around 9/11 (as in shortly after) when security was still a madhouse, I dropped a friend off at the airport in a battered rusty 78 F-100, that had a weak starter... every cop in the place refused to give me a jump and threatened to have the truck towed if I didn't have it moved in 15 minutes... luckily I was able to rent a jump box at the bottom floor of the airport... and get the truck going in time
> The cost of ignorance is apparently running down 4 flights of stairs, and about a mile while carrying a massive industrial jump pack. (note: this is after my leg got crushed)
> 
> I've never fried a computer, and i've jumped 24-12 and 12-24 12 to 6 positive ground to negative ground, (granted all the 6v stuff didn't have computers, but the truck I jumped em with does)
> 
> The only time there has ever been an issue it was dark, the abandoned wreck we were attempting to take to town (with no door, no glass, and no drivers seat at least one flat tire) didn't have a battery, and I hooked the cables wrong... There was sparks, a lot of smoke, and then fire, but the mouse that lived in the dash finally left (note, we both had working vehicles... but it sure would have been funny)



Max amperage on these newer machines is at 100 amps, even the manuals for these CTL machines say no jump starts. When we bought our new harvester then first thing we were told is they are to be juiced vs jumped they’ve had computers fried in these machines by jump starting them.


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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Max amperage on these newer machines is at 100 amps, even the manuals for these CTL machines say no jump starts. When we bought our new harvester then first thing we were told is they are to be juiced vs jumped they’ve had computers fried in these machines by jump starting them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm gonna call that one more reason not to own a new machine
Couple that with the BS dealer serviceable only ****, kinda thing made to cost the user money, period. And we all know what a service call from Pape runs these days.

I suppose the work around would be to disconnect the batteries and jump charge them, but still I don't really see how a properly done jump start would effect the computer, all your doing is charging from a different alternator, absolutely no different then the alternator the machine is using volts/amps wise. Unless they are specifically designed to sense a jump start and "fry" the computer, in which case if the ****ing manufacture knows about it being an issue they could easily put a breaker or a fuse in the circuit to prevent this kind of thing. I mean after all, we logging we're out in the middle of nowhere,way past BFE, and if the machine ain't working we just lost a days wages, or worse if it fails on a slope, possibly death and dismemberment.

I'm gonna go ahead and say this is another reason not to mess with tethering machines, if the computers are that sensitive... and the computers is what you're dangling your fleshy bits from F that


----------



## catbuster

My computers have been remarkably easy to work on and don’t mind a jump start. The 336 I know has been boosted many times, especially in the winter, and it’s just fine (until lightning hit it). A lot of the gear I run is all over the N.A & European market, and having been in an Alberta winter, damn near everything was boosted. Maybe it’s just your equipment, I dunno. I still saw process most of my logs and we move them around with relatively low tech equipment.


----------



## Skeans

catbuster said:


> My computers have been remarkably easy to work on and don’t mind a jump start. The 336 I know has been boosted many times, especially in the winter, and it’s just fine (until lightning hit it). A lot of the gear I run is all over the N.A & European market, and having been in an Alberta winter, damn near everything was boosted. Maybe it’s just your equipment, I dunno. I still saw process most of my logs and we move them around with relatively low tech equipment.



It’s the bucking computers that are sensitive most of the iQan stuff would be fine. The system works good it’s great for diagnosing faults because it is so sensitive but the draw back is jump starting.





This is the bucking as well as the total machine computer system, under one of menus is a full display of the modules and connectors. If there’s a wire break say from the boom to the head it can tell it’s between there but before not at the connector for the computer on the head.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

monday I got a call asking if I could run a skidder tues, as the help didn't show up, and when the "fallers" got there they managed to hit the skidder, luckilly the drive was inside at the time and not setting chokers...

Today I got a call to come get some firewood from the same landing...

Only to find out the same fallers had sent one onto the landing smashing up a bunch of small trees, crossing the firewood deck, nearly hitting the newer Deere 200 excavator and one of the crummies

really not stoked about heading up to this one


----------



## rwoods

Sounds like you better double up and put a hard hat on your hard hat. Ron


----------



## catbuster

Is it possible to drag up when you own the company? I’m about over the job I’m on right now. Silty clay garbage has turned the whole place into a mud pit even after spreading 470 tons of DGA on the pad and another 175 of 3s on the short driveway, the place flooded over the weekend, and of course the new(ish) superintendent with supposedly seven years of experience didn’t bring any suction hose with the damn pump today.

Time to do Ron’s thing and go sit on a stump for a while.


----------



## madhatte

Worked on 3 fire pumps today. First one needed a head gasket, done, runs great. Second needed a new pull cord, done, all's well. Third? Replaced/tested starter, solenoid, switch, and all interconnecting wiring for both the high and low current sides. Everything checks out good and yet it still won't run. It's a head scratcher.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> Is it possible to drag up when you own the company? I’m about over the job I’m on right now. Silty clay garbage has turned the whole place into a mud pit Even after spreading 470 tons of DGA on the pad and another 175 of 3s on the short driveway, the place flooded over the weekend, and of course the new(ish) superintendent with supposedly seven years of experience didn’t bring any suction hose with the damn pump today.
> 
> Time to do Ron’s thing and go sit on a stump for a while.


Thrown hard hats are always a good time lol

though taking a time out and reassessing seems to work better lol, keeps the blood pressure lower too

Today's adventure started with good intentions of power warshing my machines, and then picking up a giant maple log... pics to follow

As I was greasing up the equipment trailer, got an SOS call from a buddies log truck... lost a piston... So disconnect the equipment trailer, and haul ass up the hill 

first time loading off from another truck, and I was more then likely waayyyyy overweight, but all in all taint so bad

machines still need warshed btw

Seems like everyones stuff is breaking lately...


----------



## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> Worked on 3 fire pumps today. First one needed a head gasket, done, runs great. Second needed a new pull cord, done, all's well. Third? Replaced/tested starter, solenoid, switch, and all interconnecting wiring for both the high and low current sides. Everything checks out good and yet it still won't run. It's a head scratcher.


Bad switch? Does it start if you jump the solenoid?


----------



## northmanlogging

took some persuasion, but I got it on there with only the trucks loader, plus a little straightening with a mini but only cause power lines in the damned way


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Bad switch? Does it start if you jump the solenoid?



Replaced both switch and solenoid. Changed nothing. Also -- compound symptoms -- the hosereel is run through the same model of solenoid. I sanded all of the contacts and the hosereel worked for a minute but stopped, and the juddering of the two is the same. New battery too. Smells like maybe the problem has to be between the battery and the 150a breaker before everything? It tested good but two parallel problems make it highly suspect.


----------



## northmanlogging

Breakers will lie to you on just a conductivity test, its amp load that sets em off, when they get old they can do some wonky stuff, almost like a brown out.


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Breakers will lie to you on just a conductivity test, its amp load that sets em off, when they get old they can do some wonky stuff, almost like a brown out.



Yep, and I have another to swap in so that's my next step.


----------



## catbuster

Nate, I had the pump’s starter not disengage on the volunteer department’s type six engine last week, which promptly blew a 30 amp (!) fuse and then shut the whole engine down when said starter locked itself up, which required serious disassembly upon arrival back to the station, only to find it was the fuse that was the source of the problem.

Said pump has been converted to pull start only. We also are considering buying a used tender from a department just down the road. Chevy C7500 with a 3126 Cat... The only problem is we will have the same problem as they have with theirs... It’s a heavy truck with a standard transmission. Aren’t that many people who are proficient with them, much less be safe with it running down the road in the emergency mode.

Matt, it seems like getting to that time of year where everybody’s running around with their head cut off trying to get work in before the winter comes in, and man is it hard on equipment. Then winter comes, a lot of stuff goes to the shop, gets parked up and waits its turn to be healed for another spring/summer/fall of abuse. It’s a never-ending cycle, really. Of course, your mileage may vary, yada yada.


----------



## madhatte

I pulled the starter, it's fine. Replaced it prophylactically even, and the second one is fine too. I think the big current breaker (there's also a small current breaker for the other half of the circuit) is my next replacement part.


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## northmanlogging

#PSA if you find yourself in a merge lane next to a Silver Log Truck, and you are matching its speed... The driver more then likely can't see you, even if they do see you its on you to speed up or slow down... merge lanes must yield. 

Otherwise 1 of 2 things will happen you will either rearrange that lovely guard rail that is getting closer and closer, or you are buying me a new tire and fuel tank... choice is yours bud

In this case I did see him riding the bumper of the the truck that merged infront of me with very little room, he then swerved into my lane too? intimidate me? where I then laid on the horn until he then laid on his horn... still not figuring out that I wasn't about to stop for his dumb ass... Still 1/4 of the way into my lane... 

Any way... eventually he came to a complete stop and got in line somewhere behind me.

And before the nancy's show up, no there was not another lane for me to turn into, no I can't just slow down and let him in, no I can't just speed up so he gets behind me. speed we're at is the speed we're at, trucks don't get to slam on the brakes to make you feel better. And I repeat merge lanes must yield, state law so go ahead, cut me off... I could use a new bumper and a new hood.


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> And before the nancy's show up, no there was not another lane for me to turn into, no I can't just slow down and let him in, no I can't just speed up so he gets behind me. speed we're at is the speed we're at, trucks don't get to slam on the brakes to make you feel better. And I repeat merge lanes must yield, state law so go ahead, cut me off... I could use a new bumper and a new hood.



I feel like I shouldn’t have to be concerned with other motorists on the road, especially when driving truck. You’d think maritime rules for right of way would apply... Many experiences have proven otherwise.

Several years ago somebody decided they wanted to test just how good my Jake Brake with a D7 on. I was very pleased with how well the bumper of a T800 holds up when it makes contact with a half-ton Dodge. A 3406E does not do the best job with exhaust brake, for what it’s worth. 

Seagrave Fire Apparatus builds a _stout _bumper, too. That, and the 14 liter Series 60’s Jake coupled to an Allison 4000 EVS that changes down when the operator actually tells it to is _very _impressive.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> I feel like I shouldn’t have to be concerned with other motorists on the road, especially when driving truck. You’d think maritime rules for right of way would apply... Many experiences have proven otherwise.
> 
> Several years ago somebody decided they wanted to test just how good my Jake Brake with a D7 on. I was very pleased with how well the bumper of a T800 holds up when it makes contact with a half-ton Dodge. A 3406E does not do the best job with exhaust brake, for what it’s worth.
> 
> Seagrave Fire Apparatus builds a _stout _bumper, too. That, and the 14 liter Series 60’s Jake coupled to an Allison 4000 EVS that changes down when the operator actually tells it to is _very _impressive.


3406b isnt much better, I do have the "engine brake/Brake Saver" option, but it is currently not working... but when it does boy howdy does it


----------



## madhatte

OH I forgot to check back in here when I found the problem

battery cable

<sad trombone>


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> 3406b isnt much better, I do have the "engine brake/Brake Saver" option, but it is currently not working... but when it does boy howdy does it



I love some hydraulic retarder... Until my coolant and oil temps start getting high.

Also, we’ve worked a grand total of 30 hours this week. I’m at 6 dig ins. I love it when locators can’t find anything. The 345 takes out six feet of whatever it hits, too.


----------



## rwoods

CAT 345 - the Ultimate Locator. Hope it wasn't a gas or HV electric line. I should add water main to the list of dangerous hazards. 

Ron


----------



## Jhenderson

catbuster said:


> I love some hydraulic retarder... Until my coolant and oil temps start getting high.
> 
> Also, we’ve worked a grand total of 30 hours this week. I’m at 6 dig ins. I love it when locators can’t find anything. The 345 takes out six feet of whatever it hits, too.


When I worked for my town I called DigSafe for the only gas line in town. They marked the East lane breakdown lane. We dug up the whole lane from center line to the water, 6+ ft deep ( culvert replacement) and never found the line. Wonder how houses blow up?


----------



## catbuster

Jhenderson said:


> When I worked for my town I called DigSafe for the only gas line in town. They marked the East lane breakdown lane. We dug up the whole lane from center line to the water, 6+ ft deep ( culvert replacement) and never found the line. Wonder how houses blow up?



I’ve responded to a couple houses that burned or exploded from gas leaks. It’s never a good thing. I just hate calling 811 and then when they do show up, at their leisure, they’ll hook onto a tracer wire or something, then lose signal and give up. I mean, I get it, you can’t find it, I called you, and now I’m not at fault if I or my crew hits it. I still don’t want to take the time to fix it, shut it down, pressure test, then put it back in service. I also really, really don’t want to hook into a big high pressure gas main and then throw my excavator into orbit, take out the block and leave a big crater where it and my crew used to be.

At least nobody hit anything the last two days of the week and we’re not allowed to work weekends.

Ron, I’m equally adept at locating utilities with my 580 Case all the way up to my biggest, the 345. It doesn’t seem to matter what, when or how. If it’s not marked or even if it is marked and not close to where it’s marked, we find it. Murphy’s Law in full effect. Of course, we never seem to have the right mechanical flanges or gaskets at the shop to repair piping. We also usually manage to dig into these things before the supply house is open in the morning or after they close in the afternoon. And heaven forbid we get into buried electric. I turn into Bill Paxton’s character from Aliens.

I love what I do almost as much as being in the woods...


----------



## northmanlogging




----------



## rwoods

Another bad day at the office? King pin or axle? Ron


----------



## catbuster

Holy oh ****. Wow. God damn.

I bet that was a hell of a ride. King pin or axle the whole assembly probably needs replacement.

I sold half my business off, albeit nobody lost a job and I thought I was having a rough day...


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## northmanlogging

So far its just the tie rod.

Haven't dug deep enough to see any other damage, though I don't think any is likely pretty tough front end on there, and I wasn't going very fast, just in revers for the most part, pretty sure it broke going forward? Or at least thats when the tire let go, which I didn't catch right away and tried to revers out of it, which probably hoopa jooped the tie rod... Not real sure, all I do know is that I was asking it to turn, and she was wanting to go straight... then everything let go, and the **** got deep.

Its on my own site, so at least its not on the road again... 

I'll get it dug out and start fixing it best I can tomorrow... at least enough to limp it out of the hole its in, had to have the War Dept come rescue me... She no happy...

got a full whack of logs on there too.


----------



## madhatte

Oof, bet that's gonna be a bit of work and cash to fix


----------



## rwoods

So that flat piece in the dirt is the other end of the tie rod. Hope that is all the carnage. Glad it happened slow and you are okay.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

got er fixed, took 9 hours, plus the time to load the crummy with welding stuff, so 12?

most of that time was digging, and reloading logs though


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> So far its just the tie rod.
> 
> Haven't dug deep enough to see any other damage, though I don't think any is likely pretty tough front end on there, and I wasn't going very fast, just in revers for the most part, pretty sure it broke going forward? Or at least thats when the tire let go, which I didn't catch right away and tried to revers out of it, which probably hoopa jooped the tie rod... Not real sure, all I do know is that I was asking it to turn, and she was wanting to go straight... then everything let go, and the **** got deep.
> 
> Its on my own site, so at least its not on the road again...
> 
> I'll get it dug out and start fixing it best I can tomorrow... at least enough to limp it out of the hole its in, had to have the War Dept come rescue me... She no happy...
> 
> got a full whack of logs on there too.


You are lucky it happened there, if that type of failure had happened at speed on a corner of anywhere you wouldn't be here to talk about it, you'd be more than likely be pushing up daisies


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered said:


> You are lucky it happened there, if that type of failure had happened at speed on a corner of anywhere you wouldn't be here to talk about it, you'd be more than likely be pushing up daisies



Truth, though I'm far more concerned about killing others, I die welp ****... but if it involves killing a someone else, the guilt would probably kill me if I did survive.


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> Truth, though I'm far more concerned about killing others, I die welp ****... but if it involves killing a someone else, the guilt would probably kill me if I did survive.


The whole front end steering linkages more than likely need replacing , it's probably been over stressed in an accident or put into a bank or ditch before.


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered said:


> The whole front end steering linkages more than likely need replacing , it's probably been over stressed in an accident or put into a bank or ditch before.


nope, just some moron thought the connecting rod needed "gusseting" then proceded to poorly weld gussets right up to where the tie rod end threads stopped, complete with massive under cut, and perosity... so the absolute weakest point made weaker by stupidity, then my dumb ass tried building a road in a hurry, and cheap... well... lessons learned.


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered said:


> The whole front end steering linkages more than likely need replacing , it's probably been over stressed in an accident or put into a bank or ditch before.


also I'll note, this is a 3 owner truck, Summit Timber bought it new, and it only ever had one driver for them, then it was sold to the guy I bought it from who turned it into a self loader, I would be surprised if Frank has every crashed a truck, dude can drive better with one leg then anyone else I've ever met. And Sonny O. had to retire to get out of a truck

that said, Franks not a welder, so who ever he had fixing stuff... (oh wait I've hauled logs for that guy too....not a smart man...) same goes for a lot of the boneheads that ran Summit into the ground


----------



## northmanlogging

Truck is home now, load made it to the mill... and then picked up another lol

Got tired and frustrated to keep filming, and it was dark by the time I got home with it...

Did end up having to unload and shuffle the logs to the top of the hill, which wasn't fun but they did make it out....


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> nope, just some moron thought the connecting rod needed "gusseting" then proceded to poorly weld gussets right up to where the tie rod end threads stopped, complete with massive under cut, and perosity... so the absolute weakest point made weaker by stupidity, then my dumb ass tried building a road in a hurry, and cheap... well... lessons learned.


From the looks of your video, it looks like the steering tie rod was strengthened to stop it from being bent when being pulled all over the place in & out of log dumps, in all sorts conditions, a bit of over stressing.


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered said:


> From the looks of your video, it looks like the steering tie rod was strengthened to stop it from being bent when being pulled all over the place in & out of log dumps, in all sorts conditions, a bit of over stressing.


A lot of the time they are gusseted before they do get bent yes, but not from being pulled out etc, but more from just trying to turn against a log pile, which happens often especially with a self loader, cause you have to get up close and personal to reach enough logs... cause the gyppos that stack em up then call you can't figure out how to stack them higher then 3' or perpendicular to the road so the piles get farther and farther from the truck...

Getting pulled out the wheels will generally be forced back to straight, or at the very least together but hardly ever against the stops, which is what I inadvertently did when the truck refused to turn was crank it all the way left...


----------



## catbuster

Has anybody found a better way to run track pedals with a logger-heeled boot than this? Don’t get me wrong, these Cat ones are just exceptionally flat and not fun even wearing my Pecos boots.


----------



## Skeans

catbuster said:


> Has anybody found a better way to run track pedals with a logger-heeled boot than this? Don’t get me wrong, these Cat ones are just exceptionally flat and not fun even wearing my Pecos boots. View attachment 866514



We’ve added extensions off to the side of some the travel pedals basically a piece of tubing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> Has anybody found a better way to run track pedals with a logger-heeled boot than this? Don’t get me wrong, these Cat ones are just exceptionally flat and not fun even wearing my Pecos boots. View attachment 866514


Hitachi pedals have an ear on the top side, so forward is mostly easy even in calk boots. until you get a calk hung up between the little foot rests and the peddles... which is rare but still annoying. 

for backwards I just shift my whole damned foot and use the toe instead of my heals, partly because of the boots, and partly because of the gimp foot doesn't have enough range of motion to use the heel. or if I'm going a long ways back wards, just use muh fangers.

as a side now, I am wearing holes through the pedals, and the poor rubber mat is more or less non existent already


----------



## catbuster

Skeans said:


> We’ve added extensions off to the side of some the travel pedals basically a piece of tubing.



I’ll have to try that, probably should have a long time ago. Especially since I own nearly all my excavators now. Seems to only be a problem with newer Cat machines where the travel pedals are gargantuan and as flat as some of the plains states. I have no idea what they were thinking when they did the redesign of some of the components from the E to F series.



northmanlogging said:


> Hitachi pedals have an ear on the top side, so forward is mostly easy even in calk boots. until you get a calk hung up between the little foot rests and the peddles... which is rare but still annoying.
> 
> for backwards I just shift my whole damned foot and use the toe instead of my heals, partly because of the boots, and partly because of the gimp foot doesn't have enough range of motion to use the heel. or if I'm going a long ways back wards, just use muh fangers.
> 
> as a side now, I am wearing holes through the pedals, and the poor rubber mat is more or less non existent already



Deeretachi & Sumitomo (Case & Link-Belt) have much smaller pedals with some incline to them and are much easier to walk around. I’ve always moved my foot and used my toes to track backwards, and for long walks I’ll usually send the final drives forward, it’s just much more comfortable.

Funny how this came up right now, I had a favor called in yesterday and was on a shiny 470G Deere. I can’t lie, I liked it, it was a much nicer place to spend 3:00 AM to 6:30 PM in than my cohort’s 349 Cat.


----------



## catbuster

So I’m sitting at an intersection & noticed some smoke coming out from under the truck. Last I checked, there’s not supposed to be that much oil outside of the head. So much for the Series 60 being bullet proof as far as oil leaks...


----------



## northmanlogging

So in todays adventures in Gyppo logging and equipment destruction.

We find our hero on top of a log loader when the base plate (you know that thing that attaches it to the truck) decides to break. 

For a hat trick, we leave the trailer down, cause thats what I was doing when the loader broke...

Head for the barn (aka parked in the street in front of the house) for a night of welding and jury rigging, only to have the reach on the log trailer decide its clamps suck, and the brakes don't want to release quite fast enough.... 

long story short, I need air lines, wires, 6 hours of welding and some new shorts

Only blocked traffic for about an hour, and our local sheriffs were very nice to me, and the navy guy that stopped and help deserves a cake and 3 strippers... The rest of you morons that decided passing in oncoming traffic on a hill, at a blind T intersection can suck a donkey dong, especially the few morons that still tried it with the police directing traffic. 

Also I got home to no O2 in the hawt wrench set, and clapped out acetylene gauge... so its off to find parts and supplys fist thing in the morning.

Add to this, the 3 loads I already need delivered by wed night, cause turkey day in the USA, and a buddy called and has 2-6 more for me by wed...

anybody have one of them bitchin cloning devices running around?


----------



## rwoods

Glad our hero is a man of many talents.

Hope you get done in time to enjoy turkey and dressing with your wife.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Glad our hero is a man of many talents.
> 
> Hope you get done in time to enjoy turkey and dressing with your wife.
> 
> Ron


with a little luck I'll have it back on the road today, just waiting on the welding shop to open, and the truck parts guy...

Its not a difficult project to fix, just time, and you know fighting the cold november rains... yay... lets see if I can get electrocuted today lol.


----------



## northmanlogging

and... yeah I'm sore now lol

Managed to hand a sheet of plywood off the headache rack and on the loader so I at least stayed mostly out of the rain for most of the welding, still 6 hours of basically standing in one spot isn't real fun.

Got my nephew to show up right about 0 dark thirty to help finish off rehanging the hoses and wires...

So back at er in the morning.


----------



## northmanlogging

When you need a pipe tap, so you call NAPA cause they are easy to get into with a log truck, and they don't have the right size, which is fine, I didn't expect much from this particular NAPA anyway. 

So You go to Lowes cause its the only hardware store nearby you can maybe park a log truck...

And they have literally 4 different sized taps in the ENTIRE store, 1/2-13, 1/4-20, 1/4-18NPT and 10-32, But not 3/8-18NPT Even went over to the PLUMBING section to see if they were hiding some over there...

Dude told me to call NAPA, and that they were not into auto parts.... MOFO you are standing in the PLUMBING SECTION where EVERYTHING is pipe threads...

I may of called him and the NAPA morons to his face... 

I might add the Tap and die section at Lowes is the same size as a nearby normal hardware store (one you won't get lost in) Yet I've never had a problem finding taps and dies through them, at least normal SAE stuff, and some Metric junk too... 

Anyway, the ******* that put cheap brazed fittings on the log truck grapple cylinders and then rather then thread them weld them into the cylinder... (you know the parts that get beat on the most) need to be kicked in the teeth... with dirty boots.


----------



## catbuster

Had to use these, doubled, unplanned today... 

That’s never a good thing.


----------



## northmanlogging

ok, but I bet there's a story there


----------



## catbuster

So... I have two D8s, an L model and an R model. A D8L is the size of what a new D9 is. They were working shot rock trying to punch a road alongside a blue-line stream. The guys decided the 8L, which is open station, would be run by the our new operator.

Anyway, I don’t know how, nor do I care at the moment, but somehow the big 8 found its way into said blue-line stream (ouch, expensive fines) and stuck fast. He tried to do the right thing by picking his front up with the blade and backing up, but just sunk the blade halfway into the soft spot he found his way into and put the dozer on an angle which caused oil pressure to drop and shut the dozer off. I pulled up, and promptly started shouting profanely in the direction of the operator and foreman. After I cooled off some, it occured to me that I have an old D7 with a big Carco winch that’s been sitting at the shop unused for... A while & thankfully started. So rigging commenced, other equipment was used as a deadman, the little hoe puncheoned out and did some digging around the dozer, yada yada, and I started yanking on it. It broke one of those big ass chokers. It took doubling up and driving forward with the 7 and the winch spooling in finally jerk the thing out.

It was supposed to be the last day before we take off for 12 days. I guess we’ll see about trying to repair a riparian area and haul two big dozers back to the shop tomorrow.


----------



## northmanlogging

no fun at all.


----------



## rwoods

CB can’t “like” your post but am glad the dozer is upright and out. My first up close memory of a Cat is a D-8 with a cable blade stuck in the muck with a stump between the blade frame and the crawler. As a 5 year old or so, I watched them struggle all day. Finally got it out by unhooking the frame and chaining logs across the tracks. They raked out a huge alligator turtle in the process.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Some Saturday log hauling, 3 log load of figure maple...


----------



## slowp

My "education" is coming in handy, I think, for mundane things. I just put up a mailbox using the flimsy kit that is made for it. It's not very straight in our sandy soil. I'm thinking a guyline is in order and turnbuckle. I used beater falling wedges to try to straighten the post, but to no avail. Then put shims in, and it is better, but I don't like it. 

Logging engineering school and seeing many twister configurations in the real world might pay off, or not. Next trip to the hardware store will be for guyline and turnbuckle. Twisters would not be suitable in the urban environment. A couple of beater cats would be a bit of overkill so I'll maybe use tent stakes for anchors.


----------



## rwoods

For the uneducated like me - I was in Lowes looking at their recent shipments of 2 by 6 studs. Sticker said Idaho group. Anyway it look like pine to me, but red. Had some real tight grain, but almost every stud had multiple fractures in the ends. What species do you think it might be? With all the fractures, it made me wonder how good of studs they were.

Today, I cut a few 6" to 8" wind blown pines of some variety (Virginia, maybe) to prevent potential spring traps from a 40" plus red oak I was falling. Anyway, I rarely cut softwood and was surprised how brittle the pine was, to the point I think I just wasted my time as they would have likely just snapped upon impact. At least the stumps are not pointy.



Ron

PS I took this picture last week as I waited in the Dunkin Donut drive-thru. Familiar to anyone here?


----------



## catbuster

rwoods said:


> For the uneducated like me - I was in Lowes looking at their recent shipments of 2 by 6 studs. Sticker said Idaho group. Anyway it look like pine to me, but red. Had some real tight grain, but almost every stud had multiple fractures in the ends. What species do you think it might be? With all the fractures, it made me wonder how good of studs they were.
> 
> Today, I cut a few 6" to 8" wind blown pines of some variety (Virginia, maybe) to prevent potential spring traps from a 40" plus red oak I was falling. Anyway, I rarely cut softwood and was surprised how brittle the pine was, to the point I think I just wasted my time as they would have likely just snapped upon impact. At least the stumps are not pointy.
> View attachment 899425
> 
> 
> Ron
> 
> PS I took this picture last week as I waited in the Dunkin Donut drive-thru. Familiar to anyone here?
> View attachment 899424



Pine sucks. Fir is a much better wood for... Everything.

CA-CNF is Cleveland National Forest out of south-central California. Those boys & girls are a _long _way from home. Probably working burns or mopping up the end of our spring fire season in Cherokee NF if that Dunkin’ is close to you. You can call and find out if you want, they won’t bite, I promise.


----------



## rwoods

Greeneville, Tennessee. I am not aware of any fires here. Maybe help for a controlled burn? I should have swung around and asked the guy who was packing the second truck. Second truck appeared to have fixed windows, I bet that could be a little uncomfortable on the ride home.

Ron


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## catbuster

I might call for funsies. R8 (Kentucky down to the Gulf coast & east-west from the Atlantic to Texas) does a lot of prescribed burning this time of year. Where they are they’re either passing through or in the Cherokee.

Can’t comment on the windows, but generally any sort of engine isn’t a very comfortable ride. Most of the time the D5 or 6 I use is a better ride.


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> For the uneducated like me - I was in Lowes looking at their recent shipments of 2 by 6 studs. Sticker said Idaho group. Anyway it look like pine to me, but red. Had some real tight grain, but almost every stud had multiple fractures in the ends. What species do you think it might be? With all the fractures, it made me wonder how good of studs they were.
> 
> Today, I cut a few 6" to 8" wind blown pines of some variety (Virginia, maybe) to prevent potential spring traps from a 40" plus red oak I was falling. Anyway, I rarely cut softwood and was surprised how brittle the pine was, to the point I think I just wasted my time as they would have likely just snapped upon impact. At least the stumps are not pointy.
> View attachment 899425
> 
> 
> Ron
> 
> PS I took this picture last week as I waited in the Dunkin Donut drive-thru. Familiar to anyone here?
> View attachment 899424


Idaho, most likely Inland Doug Fir, supposedly its harder then coastal fir, and colloquially called "red fir" cause of the darker red color

Its harder then some maples, and will destroy a lesser nail even with checked ends.


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> My "education" is coming in handy, I think, for mundane things. I just put up a mailbox using the flimsy kit that is made for it. It's not very straight in our sandy soil. I'm thinking a guyline is in order and turnbuckle. I used beater falling wedges to try to straighten the post, but to no avail. Then put shims in, and it is better, but I don't like it.
> 
> Logging engineering school and seeing many twister configurations in the real world might pay off, or not. Next trip to the hardware store will be for guyline and turnbuckle. Twisters would not be suitable in the urban environment. A couple of beater cats would be a bit of overkill so I'll maybe use tent stakes for anchors.
> 
> 
> View attachment 899362


I suggest some rebar for tail holds, sLowes usually has some pre bent, or at leas 2' lengths. 

some 3//16 aircraft wire would do ya just fine, put a itty bitty farmer/flemish eye on the ends and take out the next snow plow that attempts to check your mail. 

Maybe a couple concrete filled Tonka dozers if you can find them if your going for that proper authentic scrap iron landing look. 

In somewhat related news, some studies were done on the various eye splices, loggers 3 tuck, blind tuck, and Flemish/Farmers eye, and turns out the farmers eye was stronger then all of them, like by a lot. most broke at or around the last tuck, as thats the first bend point, where the farmer eye doesn't have any tucks and is a glorified molly. (the Flemish being the same thing but with a ferrule or cable clamp added to secure the otherwise loose ends)


----------



## slowp

do ya think that knitting needles could be little tiny marlin spikes? We each did one splice in a forest engineering lab--go beavers. Since I seem to have a learning disability when it comes to knots, I'd need a really slow motion youtube video to follow. 

My first remedy will be driving in some rebar around the post. That might could help. 
Previously, I had a flimsy, not lockable, box on a pipe in a large bucket of sand and rock. The plastic was not going to last long.


----------



## slowp

rwoods said:


> Greeneville, Tennessee. I am not aware of any fires here. Maybe help for a controlled burn? I should have swung around and asked the guy who was packing the second truck. Second truck appeared to have fixed windows, I bet that could be a little uncomfortable on the ride home.
> 
> Ron


Air conditioning is our friend. Things have come a long way from when the FS was convinced that AM radios were a safety hazard and only two employees should have 4x4s to drive.


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> do ya think that knitting needles could be little tiny marlin spikes? We each did one splice in a forest engineering lab--go beavers. Since I seem to have a learning disability when it comes to knots, I'd need a really slow motion youtube video to follow.
> 
> My first remedy will be driving in some rebar around the post. That might could help.
> Previously, I had a flimsy, not lockable, box on a pipe in a large bucket of sand and rock. The plastic was not going to last long.




A farner eye is mostly the same, but you split off a couple more lays, so there is a long tail, then do your best to keep the tail from unraveling, works fine for most things, but can hang up on brush etc and get unraveled in a hurry, hence the ferule or cable clamps to secure it.


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## rwoods

I've been told many times that it doesn't pay to be cheap - probably true for me today. Cutting firewood as usual, but trying to save out a saw log from a red oak that had all the limb load and lean in the wrong place creating more load than I wanted to attempt to wedge alone. No problem just use a snatch block and a 3/8" HF import winch line (cheaper than buying cable and you get a hook in the deal). The falling went well but when unhooking the cable what I find indicates that it could have been a disaster. 


I will either go back to rope or buy some USA cable and use a shackle.

To make things worse, the 16' log must have been on steroids as it should have weighed right at 3000#, but I couldn't drag it with my little tractor. 



No problem, I will just pull forward and winch it with my military surplus Humvee two speed hydraulic winch. Moved it about 40' and with a "pow" the winch stops working.




I don't believe that log was worth all the destruction of my cheap stuff. I guess I need to invest in better stuff or find something else to do in my spare time before somebody gets hurt.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

Breaking a set of jack is interesting when you think they’ll act the same as your old set wrong.















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## catbuster

Well that’s a load of happy horse ****. Those things are expensive


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## Skeans

catbuster said:


> Well that’s a load of happy horse ****. Those things are expensive



Just have to watch the angle more with them vs the original ones on the pump otherwise they work the same and I could say better in all other respects.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rwoods

*DON'T BE FOOLED BY ALL OF THE HYPE, THE MS500i AIN'T SO LIGHT*

when it falls on the base of your middle toe handle first. Something tells me I will be hobbling in the morning. Good thing it is supposed to rain.

Ron


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## catbuster

Ouchie. I’ll be out tomorrow, in theory... I’m back into some boots with a soft toe regularly after spending all winter with my steelies on and I tried to balance a grouser pad on my right boot yesterday in the shop. Needless to say I was quickly reminded that I’m not in a hard toed boot anymore.


----------



## Woodslasher

rwoods said:


> *DON'T BE FOOLED BY ALL OF THE HYPE, THE MS500i AIN'T SO LIGHT*
> 
> when it falls on the base of your middle toe handle first. Something tells me I will be hobbling in the morning. Good thing it is supposed to rain.
> 
> Ron


I thought they just floated in mid air if you let go of them? I love my steel toed boots, the several pairs I've had have saved my toes many times.


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## rwoods

I usually wear Haix chainsaw protective boots. But this was to be a quick trip so I put on my leather hiking boots as they were more convenient. I wore the Haix boots today although I was mostly doing tractor work moving logs.

Ron


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## 2dogs

So this might be a little off topic but here goes. We had several significant wind events over the last few months. A 4'7" D-fir had its spike top blown out that landed on a crushed one of our 5k gallon water tanks and damaged the underground piping. We have the ok from the insurance company to proceed but we just found out that water tanks have risen 30-60% in price over the last two months due to the snowstorm that hit Texas. Additionally there is a four week lead time. There of course were the fires last year that also contributed to the shortage.

My question is in your area is there a shortage of tanks?


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## madhatte

Seems like just about everything is either in short supply or suddenly overpriced. The entire supply/logistics chain has been badly disrupted the last year and hasn't really begun to recover yet.


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## catbuster

Right now it seems like any type of plastic product is in short supply or the price has jumped. I took delivery of five truckloads of PVC pipe last week to help out our supplier so they didn’t get the shaft on price.


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## northmanlogging

Saw chain, and new saws. 

Parts so far have been available


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## rwoods

*These words almost seem like a jinx ... *told my wife as I left the house, "I won't be long." 

We had some heavy rains the last few days so I knew I wouldn't be doing much cutting, but thought I could buck up a 2' red oak that was just over the top of a little ravine. That part went well. Moving the second 10' log went well until I set it down to get a more balanced grip. Never made it back to the log. I slid into the stump of a blow down as I backed up the slope. I tried and tried to get unstuck, but just dug my little tractor in deeper even while pushing the grapple off a small tree.




I started to prepare to walk home, then help from one of my friends on this forum came as I thought to myself I bet Gologit could use the grapple against the ground and drive this tractor out of here. But I don't have those skills, I better just hit the road. Then as if he were coaching me, I thought well he didn't learn by not trying. So I went to work, lifting the frontend and curling the grapple as the wheels spun in reverse. After 20 minutes, I was almost out but just couldn't quite make it. So I prepared to walk home and texted my wife that I was stuck and would be late. She offered to come help. I declined the offer since that likely meant a stuck or damaged truck. Then another forum friend, Northman, stepped in as if to say "This is an everyday thing; I work alone all the time and I wouldn't be walking home until I tried every resource." So after some further thought I rigged to a stump and tried to get the broken winch to run in the other gear - no go - it is toast in high and low. Then my little mental light lit dimly, how about attaching a choker to the grapple and to my rigging, curl the grapple, and repeat as necessary? Let's just say I didn't walk home. Supper was cold.

Thanks, guys for all your help and inspiration.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> *These words almost seem like a jinx ... *told my wife as I left the house, "I won't be long."
> 
> We had some heavy rains the last few days so I knew I wouldn't be doing much cutting, but thought I could buck up a 2' red oak that was just over the top of a little ravine. That part went well. Moving the second 10' log went well until I set it down to get a more balanced grip. Never made it back to the log. I slid into the stump of a blow down as I backed up the slope. I tried and tried to get unstuck, but just dug my little tractor in deeper even while pushing the grapple off a small tree.
> 
> View attachment 905305
> 
> 
> I started to prepare to walk home, then help from one of my friends on this forum came as I thought to myself I bet Gologit could use the grapple against the ground and drive this tractor out of here. But I don't have those skills, I better just hit the road. Then as if he were coaching me, I thought well he didn't learn by not trying. So I went to work, lifting the frontend and curling the grapple as the wheels spun in reverse. After 20 minutes, I was almost out but just couldn't quite make it. So I prepared to walk home and texted my wife that I was stuck and would be late. She offered to come help. I declined the offer since that likely meant a stuck or damaged truck. Then another forum friend, Northman, stepped in as if to say "This is an everyday thing; I work alone all the time and I wouldn't be walking home until I tried every resource." So after some further thought I rigged to a stump and tried to get the broken winch to run in the other gear - no go - it is toast in high and low. Then my little mental light lit dimly, how about attaching a choker to the grapple and to my rigging, curl the grapple, and repeat as necessary? Let's just say I didn't walk home. Supper was cold.
> 
> Thanks, guys for all your help and inspiration.
> 
> Ron


Now yer loggin


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## 2dogs

There's mud in Tennesee?


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## rwoods

Not much mud - just an incompetent tractor operator. 
Ron


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## catbuster

You know how in life sometimes you just can’t win? Like, sorta nice used piece of equipment and it won’t start a few days after taking delivery? Yup. It’s that time.


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## catbuster

Update: Still down.


Thankfully this is still running.


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## rwoods

I didn't want to ask if it was your new monster. I see it is. 

Hope the fix is something simple and cheap. I know those words aren't in a CAT's vocabulary, but a man can hope. 

Ron


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## catbuster

Cheap is in Cat’s vocabulary, but big machines still come with big bills. Around here, and I think it’s a common thread, Deere parts (like the ones for that 470) are higher than Cat, though Deere has a lower purchase price to get into a machine.

I didn’t spend too much time messing with it, and it’s on a lease-the last 349 I bought burned me back in 2020-which means Cat gets to fight with the repairs, not me.


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## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> Cheap is in Cat’s vocabulary, but big machines still come with big bills. Around here, and I think it’s a common thread, Deere parts (like the ones for that 470) are higher than Cat, though Deere has a lower purchase price to get into a machine.
> 
> I didn’t spend too much time messing with it, and it’s on a lease, the last 349 I bought burned me back in 2020, which means Cat gets to fight with the repairs, not me.


Deere up'ed the price on ALL of their parts, like 1000% even on the old stuff a couple years ago, so now I get everything online, or get the part # and go to my local NAPA, it takes about the same amount of time but I save 1000's vs messing with the stealership. The worst thing is having the dealer that sold your machine new, still sells the same make, lie and tell you its a "grey market machine" so parts are hard to find and going to be more expensive... news flash a JD 490E is IDENTICLE to an Hitachi ex120 except the motor, and the operator seat. 

The Cat Dealer around here is expensive, but not real bad, however they also have parts guys that know how to look up parts WITHOUT a serial number.


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## rwoods

I was just repeating CAT rumor trying to be funny - glad I was wrong. My CAT experience is limited to owning a key, a few hours running their largest skid steer, and a few minutes now and then pushing a log or two out of my way with a D6 and/or moving the D6 out of my way. I have more experience/time at the local Deere parts counter as a retail customer. I can feel your pain.
Ron


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## 2dogs

Granite Rock (GRC) does our maintenance as a donation. I was at the quarry a few weeks ago where they had a quite new D11 and a 988 (I think) also new both with the motors sitting on the ground next to them. Both were under warranty. Cat was not happy.


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## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> Deere up'ed the price on ALL of their parts, like 1000% even on the old stuff a couple years ago, so now I get everything online, or get the part # and go to my local NAPA, it takes about the same amount of time but I save 1000's vs messing with the stealership. The worst thing is having the dealer that sold your machine new, still sells the same make, lie and tell you its a "grey market machine" so parts are hard to find and going to be more expensive... news flash a JD 490E is IDENTICLE to an Hitachi ex120 except the motor, and the operator seat.
> 
> The Cat Dealer around here is expensive, but not real bad, however they also have parts guys that know how to look up parts WITHOUT a serial number.



Skeans & I had a doscjssion a while back about Cat and why he won’t buy anything from them again, but to shoot straight with you, there aren’t many other companies that can back their product like them through a dealer network. _Period. _It’s hard to get away from that, and their parts are in line with the other makes and models. Mind, I say back as in you can get a full D9 final drive overnighted from Seattle to Amaknak Island, not that they’ll fix your stuff for free after it’s out of warranty or they fix damage you did as a warranty claim. That’s not how that works.

Ron, I was in Cat’s largest skid steer today. It was the lower horsepower option of the machine I told that softdown guy to buy and, well, you know how that went. I like the 299, it has some nice geatures compared to its competetors. 



2dogs said:


> Granite Rock (GRC) does our maintenance as a donation. I was at the quarry a few weeks ago where they had a quite new D11 and a 988 (I think) also new both with the motors sitting on the ground next to them. Both were under warranty. Cat was not happy.



Geez, that’s a lot of engine there. D11s are monsters-more dozer than I’m comfortable on, for sure. I’ve only been on one 988, it was an old F model, the largest wheel loader I’ve been o


----------



## Skeans

catbuster said:


> Skeans & I had a doscjssion a while back about Cat and why he won’t buy anything from them again, but to shoot straight with you, there aren’t many other companies that can back their product like them through a dealer network. _Period. _It’s hard to get away from that, and their parts are in line with the other makes and models. Mind, I say back as in you can get a full D9 final drive overnighted from Seattle to Amaknak Island, not that they’ll fix your stuff for free after it’s out of warranty or they fix damage you did as a warranty claim. That’s not how that works.
> 
> Ron, I was in Cat’s largest skid steer today. It was the lower horsepower option of the machine I told that softdown guy to buy and, well, you know how that went. I like the 299, it has some nice geatures compared to its competetors.
> 
> 
> 
> Geez, that’s a lot of engine there. D11s are monsters-more dozer than I’m comfortable on, for sure. I’ve only been on one 988, it was an old F model, the largest wheel loader I’ve been o



They will till they won’t is what we’ve found out the hard way a couple of times but most forestry equipment is that way. Where you’re going to run into issues is electrical components they can’t get anymore then you’re stuck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rwoods

catbuster said:


> Skeans & I had a doscjssion a while back about Cat and why he won’t buy anything from them again, but to shoot straight with you, there aren’t many other companies that can back their product like them through a dealer network. _Period. _It’s hard to get away from that, and their parts are in line with the other makes and models. Mind, I say back as in you can get a full D9 final drive overnighted from Seattle to Amaknak Island, not that they’ll fix your stuff for free after it’s out of warranty or they fix damage you did as a warranty claim. That’s not how that works.
> 
> Ron, I was in Cat’s largest skid steer today. It was the lower horsepower option of the machine I told that softdown guy to buy and, well, you know how that went. I like the 299, it has some nice geatures compared to its competetors.
> 
> 
> 
> Geez, that’s a lot of engine there. D11s are monsters-more dozer than I’m comfortable on, for sure. I’ve only been on one 988, it was an old F model, the largest wheel loader I’ve been o


My opinion is worth about as much as a guy who has only sat in a Ferrari in the showroom and told you it handles great. That said, the CAT skid steer sure is nice. So is the D6.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

A week ago today, I moved the essavotor closer to home (it was 2 hours away) so that I could get some much needed work done (repacking cylinders etc) 

So far between Dumb trucking, Self Loather, and Contract timber cutting, Not to mention the odd flat tire (5 this week alone) I've spent exactly 3 hours working on the excavator


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## catbuster

It’s alright, I just have to keep telling myself “it’s going to be okay,” and “it’s got to get better” an awful lot these days.

I’ll come cut for you, if you want, at this point. Gotta be better than fighting this project. It has me about to fold my firm into another bigger outfit and taking up a job as a superintendent there. The offer they made is looking better and better.


----------



## Woodslasher

catbuster said:


> View attachment 923661
> 
> It’s alright, I just have to keep telling myself “it’s going to be okay,” and “it’s got to get better” an awful lot these days.


I know a bit about dirt work, but what happened there?


----------



## catbuster

Woodslasher said:


> I know a bit about dirt work, but what happened there?



What that is is an entire ****ing intersection that collapsed.

To start: I’m laying 18” sewer and having to dig 18’-21 deep to do it. The soils are sand and I’m like 6000’ from the Ohio River. Soils are… Terrible. I have a deep well dewatering system set up and it’s hard. Slide rails or Z piles/sheet piling are about the only ways to shore this stuff, and to use piling 20’ deep you need some 40’ piles to get enough bite into the ground to keep it from kicking and not have a strut for each pile. I don’t own a crane and a vibratory tool to drive sheet piles, nor will existing conditions allow it, there’s 27 KV three phase running way too close for comfort, we had to offset dewatering wells for the drill rig to come in and be far enough away to sink wells.

Driving the rails in a slide rail system is a violent process that shakes the hell out of the ground immediately next to the system. As you drive the panels you dig out from under them, and the banks collapse some that leaves a void. When the rails are driven more falls in, and into the void.

Where we’re working there isn’t much restraint used on existing water main. It’s pretty much a gripper ring to keep valves from blowing off and they’re using kickers to keep the lines in one pieces. Well, when the soils move around and a void opens up nothing restrains the pipe and it blew apart. All the sand and gravel blew out and took the intersection with it.

That would be what happened in there with a little bit of detail.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> View attachment 923661
> 
> It’s alright, I just have to keep telling myself “it’s going to be okay,” and “it’s got to get better” an awful lot these days.
> 
> I’ll come cut for you, if you want, at this point. Gotta be better than fighting this project. It has me about to fold my firm into another bigger outfit and taking up a job as a superintendent there. The offer they made is looking better and better.


they want "me" and "me" alone, half of this stuff I'm cutting I could do blind folded, but the folks they normally hire have issues... lots of issues... dependency issues, saw maintenance issues, transportation issues, vision issues, sanity issues, biggest one though, insurance issues, as in, NO ONE WILL INSURE THEM issues.


Woodslasher said:


> I know a bit about dirt work, but what happened there?


 I'm a guess and say a pipe broke, or maybe some lack of compaction followed by lots of rain water in a poorly installed pipe, i.e. gaps where there shouldn't be gaps


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> What that is is an entire ****ing intersection that collapsed.
> 
> To start: I’m laying 18” sewer and having to dig 18’-21 deep to do it. The soils are sand and I’m like 6000’ from the Ohio River. Soils are… Terrible. I have a deep well dewatering system set up and it’s hard. Slide rails or Z piles/sheet piling are about the only ways to shore this stuff, and to use piling 20’ deep you need some 40’ piles to get enough bite into the ground to keep it from kicking and not have a strut for each pile. I don’t own a crane and a vibratory tool to drive sheet piles, nor will existing conditions allow it, there’s 27 KV three phase running way too close for comfort, we had to offset dewatering wells for the drill rig to come in and be far enough away to sink wells.
> 
> Driving the rails in a slide rail system is a violent process that shakes the hell out of the ground immediately next to the system. As you drive the panels you dig out from under them, and the banks collapse some that leaves a void. When the rails are driven more falls in, and into the void.
> 
> Where we’re working there isn’t much restraint used on existing water main. It’s pretty much a gripper ring to keep valves from blowing off and they’re using kickers to keep the lines in one pieces. Well, when the soils move around and a void opens up nothing restrains the pipe and it blew apart. All the sand and gravel blew out and took the intersection with it.
> 
> That would be what happened in there with a little bit of detail.


Wholey ole fawk... well I was half right, but the cause is insanity...


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> Wholey ole fawk... well I was half right, but the cause is insanity...


I’ve been doing this **** for over half my life now, and I told the water company something like this was going to happen before we even started. I fell on deaf ears. This equipment is heavy, to the point where my smallest excavator is 80,000 pounds and the two mainline ones are in the ~110,000 pound range and the the rail and spreader sets weigh more than your excavator. (See attached image) The work is violent, but it’s not possible to do it with smaller stuff and do it more softly without killing somebody. Doing this with trench boxes or short pilings is asking for a trench collapse that would eat the street curb to curb. I thought about renting a Cat 390 or 800 Komatsu/Deeretachi for this job and then I remembered the 27KV 3 phase overhead and the fact I’m on a two lane road with the poles right up next to it so I’d be whacking the counterweight on them.

Then I thought about just letting the bond company have it, for the first time, _ever. _Then my stupid pride got in the way and I decided I would just do it anyway. Now we’ve made it into the point where I’d get sued out of business even if I let the bond company have it and I’d never get another job anywhere if I didn’t finish, given that there’s no picking up where I left off if I pull shoring and it would take 6 months for another contractor to even get a crew started.

The only thing I’m confident in is that nobody could do a better job than what we’re doing right now. I’m very, very confident in that. I’m on site all day, 10-14 hours a day every working day. I would just like to not wake up yelling at the room as I’m acting a nightmare of arguing with the engineer.

Edit: Oh, and we’ve broken four _one-inch cable choker slings with eyes in them _yanking stuff out of the ground on this job. 20 ton clevises last a week and then the pins are bent and banana hooks don’t last much longer. I’ve doubled up on Gunnebo hooks, and the big ones I have to use for this job cost $2680, because I’m going through so many trigger kits and one is always out of service. Chain slings? Ha ha ha. Better bring at least 1/2”, 3/4 is better and they better only get used for setting stuff ‘cause they’re not an option for pulling.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> I’ve been doing this **** for over half my life now, and I told the water company something like this was going to happen before we even started. I fell on deaf ears. This equipment is heavy, to the point where my smallest excavator is 80,000 pounds and the two mainline ones are in the ~110,000 pound range and the the rail and spreader sets weigh more than your excavator. (See attached image) The work is violent, but it’s not possible to do it with smaller stuff and do it more softly without killing somebody. Doing this with trench boxes or short pilings is asking for a trench collapse that would eat the street curb to curb. I thought about renting a Cat 390 or 800 Komatsu/Deeretachi for this job and then I remembered the 27KV 3 phase overhead and the fact I’m on a two lane road with the poles right up next to it so I’d be whacking the counterweight on them.
> 
> Then I thought about just letting the bond company have it, for the first time, _ever. _Then my stupid pride got in the way and I decided I would just do it anyway. Now we’ve made it into the point where I’d get sued out of business even if I let the bond company have it and I’d never get another job anywhere if I didn’t finish, given that there’s no picking up where I left off if I pull shoring and it would take 6 months for another contractor to even get a crew started.
> 
> The only thing I’m confident in is that nobody could do a better job than what we’re doing right now. I’m very, very confident in that. I’m on site all day, 10-14 hours a day every working day. I would just like to not wake up yelling at the room as I’m acting a nightmare of arguing with the engineer.
> 
> Edit: Oh, and we’ve broken four _one-inch cable choker slings with eyes in them _yanking stuff out of the ground on this job. 20 ton clevises last a week and then the pins are bent and banana hooks don’t last much longer. I’ve doubled up on Gunnebo hooks, and the big ones I have to use for this job cost $2680, because I’m going through so many trigger kits and one is always out of service. Chain slings? Ha ha ha. Better bring at least 1/2”, 3/4 is better and they better only get used for setting stuff ‘cause they’re not an option for pulling.


Is there any light at the end of the sewer? or is it a long ways off?

I have to ask why they Hell are they burying a sewer pipe 20' deep when its that close to a river in the first place?, I'm thinking that a pump station or 20, would of been cheaper in the long run, keep the pipes no more then 10' down, but what do I know, I'm just a logger. But I do know that if you're digging in saturated soils (which they should of done some core drilling first and therefore known about) that digging deeper is just begging for more trouble. These are all things I'm sure you've pointed out multiple times already...


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> Is there any light at the end of the sewer? or is it a long ways off?





northmanlogging said:


> I have to ask why they Hell are they burying a sewer pipe 20' deep when its that close to a river in the first place?, I'm thinking that a pump station or 20, would of been cheaper in the long run, keep the pipes no more then 10' down, but what do I know, I'm just a logger. But I do know that if you're digging in saturated soils (which they should of done some core drilling first and therefore known about) that digging deeper is just begging for more trouble. These are all things I'm sure you've pointed out multiple times already...



638 feet left on COB today. Two manholes and a few lateral connections. Probably four weeks of work. This section of sewer is so freakin’ deep because it runs through a high spot in a… Let’s just call it long section of pipe. For gravity flow there’s not much of a choice. It’s also a collector, so it has to run under everything that drops into it, and the laterals have to flow into the 18” pipe, which means it has to run deeper than the existing. As far as soils are concerned, you’d be surprised how much drawdown you can get from a 5 HP pump with a 2” discharge drilled 35’ into the ground in a casing pipe with the right filter material. Throw one every 50’ and groundwater has been sucked down between the 23 and 27’ level since April, rain be damned… Broken water main discharge was not counted. It was actually part of the sub’s contract agreement.

We did actually run force main on this job from two pump stations, about a mile 6 and 10 inch that we knocked out of the park, did it in three weeks with a 145 Link-Belt, skid steer and a wheel loader running between the force main crew and the deep guys. There is a lot of force main in this area, but for whatever reason collectors are gravity, I dunno why. I like water pipe, force main and gas pipe, it’s pretty fast paced and not a slog of heavy rigging, violent driving and desperately avoiding all the other stuff in the way.

The city had an EPA mandate put on them, and this is the most logical thing to do, believe it or not. We just picked up the hardest section of this job. Everybody knew the water was there, anyone who has ever dug in Louisville, Jeffersonville or New Albany knows it and we have ways to handle it. There are sand pits in downtown Louisvile that are over a hundred feet deep. There was a full geotechnical report on the job, we knew what we were getting into and planned for it. What I could not plan for was the piss poor condition of existing infrastructure or the seething nepotism of the city and local utility providers trying to glue, screw and tattoo us for the inevitable. But I digress.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> 638 feet left on COB today. Two manholes and a few lateral connections. Probably four weeks of work. This section of sewer is so freakin’ deep because it runs through a high spot in a… Let’s just call it long section of pipe. For gravity flow there’s not much of a choice. It’s also a collector, so it has to run under everything that drops into it, and the laterals have to flow into the 18” pipe, which means it has to run deeper than the existing. As far as soils are concerned, you’d be surprised how much drawdown you can get from a 5 HP pump with a 2” discharge drilled 35’ into the ground in a casing pipe with the right filter material. Throw one every 50’ and groundwater has been sucked down between the 23 and 27’ level since April, rain be damned… Broken water main discharge was not counted. It was actually part of the sub’s contract agreement.
> 
> We did actually run force main on this job from two pump stations, about a mile 6 and 10 inch that we knocked out of the park, did it in three weeks with a 145 Link-Belt, skid steer and a wheel loader running between the force main crew and the deep guys. There is a lot of force main in this area, but for whatever reason collectors are gravity, I dunno why. I like water pipe, force main and gas pipe, it’s pretty fast paced and not a slog of heavy rigging, violent driving and desperately avoiding all the other stuff in the way.
> 
> The city had an EPA mandate put on them, and this is the most logical thing to do, believe it or not. We just picked up the hardest section of this job. Everybody knew the water was there, anyone who has ever dug in Louisville, Jeffersonville or New Albany knows it and we have ways to handle it. There are sand pits in downtown Louisvile that are over a hundred feet deep. There was a full geotechnical report on the job, we knew what we were getting into and planned for it. What I could not plan for was the piss poor condition of existing infrastructure or the seething nepotism of the city and local utility providers trying to glue, screw and tattoo us for the inevitable. But I digress.


ah, nepotism... say no more. 

Be nice if folks could figure out that gub-a-mint is there to provide a service to the people, not a job for unemployable morons. 

In other Whiny news... I've been climbing all over equipment so much lately, that my poor legs are having trouble fitting in already baggy pants... between the crane work on the Disservice truck (which means climbing in and out of it for every lift 3-4 times cause groundies, who needs em) and climbing the loader on the log truck....pretty sure I have a good chance of placing in any local strongman competitions, but I refuse to wear sweat pants to work....


----------



## northmanlogging

Don't take this as whinging, its more of an observation.
Running the self loader, I tend to work with a lot of excavation type companies, and it seems that most of them are so tight with a penny if they ever let loose of it it would of turned to gold, they skimp and save on nearly everything, get the cheapest trucking, cheapest rock, pipe, etc, ***** about cost overruns whine constantly about fuel prices, taxes, labor on and on. 

But then they take perfectly good timber, mangle the ever loving **** out if it with the biggest machine they got, toss whats left into haphazard pile, then call me 3-6 months later and want the logs hauled yesterday... Meanwhile, in their burn pile are 20-30' "butt" cuts and loads of what could be short logs destined to become a cost, when they could of been cleaned up, with just a couple of minutes per log, then sent on to the mill and get a paycheck worth way more then the time invested. Then they have the audacity to say a hell man, "its not worth my time" 

Bruh...

it takes about 3 hours to clean up a few logs to make a load, a load the could potentially be worth $3000, but its cool your machine makes $150 ish an hour. (its pretty ****ing simple math folks)


Sometimes its hard to keep my mouth shut. 

On a side note, yeah fuel prices suck, they ALLWAYS HAVE, if you're not making enough to pay your fuel bill without bothering to check the price everytime, you're doing it wrong my dudes, if the machine makes you $1500 on even $400 in fuel in a day... you've still cleared more then most folks make in a week even if you figure the machine gets half.


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## northmanlogging

9-10 these same folks will use clear diesel in their machines, rather then tax free red diesel, then while filling their transfer tanks look you straight in the eye with no concept of irony and ***** about B+O taxes.


----------



## Jhenderson

All one needs do is file the correct form with the IRS to recoup all deductible taxes at the end of the year. When I do that I end up paying less per gallon than if I purchased off road fuel to begin with.


----------



## catbuster

I’d be lying to you if I told you the fuel in the tank of my one-ton is red. But, well… Truck drivers. I don’t know how somebody forgets to fuel up in the afternoon but I seem to get a call about a truck out of fuel way too often. If it makes its way into an excavator so be it.

Wood is secondary to the excavating work. It’s that simple. They don’t really care, you’re as much getting the wood out of their way as they’re getting paid for trees. You’re right, they don’t realize what kind of check they could be getting from just not smashing the stuff into a pile with their 350 Link-Belt.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> I’d be lying to you if I told you the fuel in the tank of my one-ton is red. But, well… Truck drivers. I don’t know how somebody forgets to fuel up in the afternoon but I seem to get a call about a truck out of fuel way too often. If it makes its way into an excavator so be it.
> 
> Wood is secondary to the excavating work. It’s that simple. They don’t really care, you’re as much getting the wood out of their way as they’re getting paid for trees. You’re right, they don’t realize what kind of check they could be getting from just not smashing the stuff into a pile with their 350 Link-Belt.


that is like the one exception, cause yeah truck drivers are ******* idiots... How hard is it to stop either first thing in the morning, or last thing before hitting the yard and fill up? Then you have enough fuel to run all day without issues...

Or maybe I'm just used to not having a working or reliable fuel gauge?

Even then a couple gallons of dyed goes away quick if you're in a pinch... not saying i've ever done this, nor would I ever do such a thing in the future...

This one time, while on a camp out job, with the sort if company I'm bitching about, one of the monkeys that should of been working hid in the service truck for a week with the engine running. I had the misfortune of being the poor sot to be the only one with a cdl, and had to drive it home 100mi to the yard... turns out they had shut off the crossover for the duel tanks, and the fuel gauge was in the full tank... They had also nearly drained the transfer tank of all but about 2 gallons of red diesel, it was dark, raining and in the middle of a narrow winding road... took an hour to reprime it with every name in the book hollered at me in the process, but I did get the bastard back to the yard without getting towed...

This would be the same service truck that broke the supply fuel line while driving on to a WA state ferry... dumping several gallons onto the pristine deck of that boat... the crew was not impressed...the shoved me off on the other side, and said good luck sucker... but I did have a torch, and was able to braze it together while the Sunday tourist crowds watched in awe/horror as this hairy monster man played with fire while spilling diesel everywhere... Last I knew it was still brazed no one has bothered to order the replacement parts and fix it correctly.


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> that is like the one exception, cause yeah truck drivers are ******* idiots... How hard is it to stop either first thing in the morning, or last thing before hitting the yard and fill up? Then you have enough fuel to run all day without issues...
> 
> Or maybe I'm just used to not having a working or reliable fuel gauge?
> 
> Even then a couple gallons of dyed goes away quick if you're in a pinch... not saying i've ever done this, nor would I ever do such a thing in the future...



You know what’s even worse? There’s a 5000 gallon tank marked “truck diesel” _on the yard. _How do you not fuel up when it’s _right there? _ I mean, come on. The trucks go to the yard _every day. _


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> You know what’s even worse? There’s a 5000 gallon tank marked “truck diesel” _on the yard. _How do you not fuel up when it’s _right there? _ I mean, come on. The trucks go to the yard _every day. _


the simple answer... ******* lazy, the truth they is stupid.


----------



## northmanlogging

this one cute, but in a bad way... it's up for grabs if ya wanna bid on it


----------



## rwoods

Looks a tad too big for your skidder.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Looks a tad too big for your skidder.
> 
> Ron


blasphemy


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Looks a tad too big for your skidder.
> 
> Ron


Best part is the road in has a couple of creek crossings, the kind that need ground clearance and 4x4 when its been raining... So you would need to skid said logs about a mile to where they could be loaded.


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## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> blasphemy


Nothing runs like a Deere. Especially a nimble JD440. Ron


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## catbuster

My immediate thought would be hook it to the 8L and the 345, start yarding on it then cut it to get it up to the road.

But I’d have to build a new road just to get a D8 and a 345 there. Might just be best to cut it, let it go downhill and go from there. 

Also yeah, nothing runs like a Deere with a Cat on it’s ass. Of course, the 40 and 50 series row crop tractors are a different story. Even if the frame split right where the flywheel is and would destroy clutches. Stout old machines, I know where many are still in use.


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## northmanlogging

SO I broke some stuff... like a lot of stuff...
Anyway, I was arc gouging the bottom plate on the log loader the other day, which is like 1" plate, had a giant crack that went more or less 1/2 way across, which then caused some other far more critical things to break... 
Well, the bottom of the loader, is also the bottom of the hydraulic reservoir... it holds roughly 50 gallons

Did I mention that hydraulic fluid burns real good, like hot, and for like a long time, hot like gasoline, but sticky and long lasting... think napalm but less friendly

I mention this, as I performed this little stunt on wednesday, I only just realized that had I gouged through, as was my original intent... did I mention hydro fluid burns reallllll good
the tank was full, and my gimpy fat ass was under it, wielding basically a lightening bolt that sprays molten metal and high volumes of air...

In other news, I'm not ded yet, and the log truck is back in action as of today.


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## rwoods

Glad you ain't dead and that the log truck works. Hopefully, better things are to come. Ron


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Glad you ain't dead and that the log truck works. Hopefully, better things are to come. Ron


Sometimes luck is all you got...

replaced the dumb truck during the process, and most of the wood that was waiting on me to haul, is still waiting, turns out all the Self Loathers in the area are either super busy or Elk hunting, so no one was available to pick up the slack.
Truck is home now for the first time in over a month... nearly everything is fixed and ready to roll.


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## catbuster

Not being dead is _always _good. Good old 10W, be it AW 32 or ISO 46 does burn, it burns really well and it runs all over everything even better than it burns. Carbon arc is hot enough without burning liquid everywhere.

Glad you’re alright. Bow season started last weekend and we’re starting to see some guys starting to take some time off, which is always inopportune because it’s the final rush to knock stuff out, lows are already bouncing into the low 40s here.


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## catbuster

So I got out to clear & grub some ground ahead of the rest of the crew today. I plan on actually stacking the saw logs into something that resembles a log pile and taking it to a mill. It might not cover the fuel bill, but there are a few nice hardwood trees I don’t want to waste.

I parked up, grabbed my saws, gas, yada, chucked them into the bucket of my hoe, which isn’t what I asked to be sent out, but I guess I can stack trees with a 48” bucket and no thumb. I move(d) mud mats, road plates and sheet piles without them, no big deal.

The live version of Ramblin’ Gamblin’ Man was on the radio when I started up the hoe, the sun was coming up over the eastern horizon with the gorgeous colors we have at this time of year, and I was thinking it was about to be a good day. I got up the road to where I had staked everything out, and I started brushing out.

Next thing I see is this:


That, my friends, is a European Giant Hornet, enormous stinger and all. Not as scary as the Asian Murderer that has invaded the PNW but still mean little bastards when perturbed about the world around them, and they usually nest in dead trees. I had been swarmed by ground hornets a few weeks prior, and I can say that unlike in the past, while I don’t turn into a red, human balloon, I do break out in hives now.

I went home. Told the shop guys to bring me an excavator with a thumb and some wasp spray. I’m also going to have to replace my phone. Oh well.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> So I got out to clear & grub some ground ahead of the rest of the crew today. I plan on actually stacking the saw logs into something that resembles a log pile and taking it to a mill. It might not cover the fuel bill, but there are a few nice hardwood trees I don’t want to waste.
> 
> I parked up, grabbed my saws, gas, yada, chucked them into the bucket of my hoe, which isn’t what I asked to be sent out, but I guess I can stack trees with a 48” bucket and no thumb. I move(d) mud mats, road plates and sheet piles without them, no big deal.
> 
> The live version of Ramblin’ Gamblin’ Man was on the radio when I started up the hoe, the sun was coming up over the eastern horizon with the gorgeous colors we have at this time of year, and I was thinking it was about to be a good day. I got up the road to where I had staked everything out, and I started brushing out.
> 
> Next thing I see is this:
> View attachment 932163
> 
> That, my friends, is a European Giant Hornet, enormous stinger and all. Not as scary as the Asian Murderer that has invaded the PNW but still mean little bastards when perturbed about the world around them, and they usually nest in dead trees. I had been swarmed by ground hornets a few weeks prior, and I can say that unlike in the past, while I don’t turn into a red, human balloon, I do break out in hives now.
> 
> I went home. Told the shop guys to bring me an excavator with a thumb and some wasp spray. I’m also going to have to replace my phone. Oh well.


Did the hornets fly off with the phone, or did one of the crew eat it for lunch?


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> Did the hornets fly off with the phone, or did one of the crew eat it for lunch?



Neither, damn thing just stared at me. Given that the crew was yours truly & the dog, I guess we didn’t eat it either.


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## catbuster

My phone problems are completely separate from the giant hornet nest. As it would turn out, three years is about as long as an iPhone 6s battery will last with my use, so it would be on its third battery. The phone won’t be able to support the next OS update which then leads to problems running the thing.

So the replacement is on order.

Also… Giant hornet stings hurt an awful lot. It didn’t occur to me that my front window was open before knocking the tree with the nest in it over… Then I tried to tram away at the full 3 mile per hour top speed of a Cat 330D. Not my best run of choices. I still can’t get over how they didn’t do anything until I started knocking limbs off the tree. I guess they are the gentle giants of the bee/wasp/hornet world as described by my ‘ologist friend I called after I got the **** stung out of me.


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## rwoods

I took these pictures last Saturday to show you guys where most of the wood I cut goes. If history repeats itself most of the split wood shown and the wood stored in the building (it's full) will be gone by Thanksgiving. My contribution to the piles are relatively light compared to what the various tree services bring.




Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

The War Dept, has informed me that a flock of Camp Robbers (grey jays) has found the neighborhood... Guess I have to start locking the doors on the crummy and log truck... and keep all my TP, lighters, spare gloves under lock and key...


----------



## catbuster

Tuesday I was expecting a rented grader to be dropped off on one of my jobs. The lowboy driver (not mine) calls me, says he’s having problems unloading it. Boy do I wish I had taken pictures, and I probably should have to cover my ass, because he had the right front tire hanging off the side, the blade holding it level, and the back scooted almost off the trailer with the lowboy unattached. I got it off, kind of a chore given that I am not a grader man.

Then yesterday I got a call from one of my guys at the yard that there’s another lowboy driver picking up that grader. I went flying down there & asked where that grader was supposed to go, and I was told it was headed to Indianapolis. I give up.

Also, I have a late model D8 on my site now, anybody want to guess why? I’ll give you two hints: 17,089 and 39,318.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> Tuesday I was expecting a rented grader to be dropped off on one of my jobs. The lowboy driver (not mine) calls me, says he’s having problems unloading it. Boy do I wish I had taken pictures, and I probably should have to cover my ass, because he had the right front tire hanging off the side, the blade holding it level, and the back scooted almost off the trailer with the lowboy unattached. I got it off, kind of a chore given that I am not a grader man.
> 
> Then yesterday I got a call from one of my guys at the yard that there’s another lowboy driver picking up that grader. I went flying down there & asked where that grader was supposed to go, and I was told it was headed to Indianapolis. I give up.
> 
> Also, I have a late model D8 on my site now, anybody want to guess why? I’ll give you two hints: 17,089 and 39,318.


Well, did you finish with the grader? or did they just show up and bog off with it. 

and if your not using that D8, you can drop it off here thank you...

Not sure what yer numbers are all about, unless thats what a motor for a D8 and D9 cost.


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> Well, did you finish with the grader? or did they just show up and bog off with it.
> 
> and if your not using that D8, you can drop it off here thank you...
> 
> Not sure what yer numbers are all about, unless thats what a motor for a D8 and D9 cost.



I never got to use the damn thing!

Apparently I was sent one that wasn’t set up for what we’re doing. The rental place was supposed to get me one that will actually work for what we’re doing, yeah, nothing yet.

17,089 hours was how long the bottom end of the engine on my D8L lasted. It has 39,318 frame hours. You can have it for the price of scrap plus the haul to W. Washington if you want it. Everything works except, you know, a big Cat V8 engine to power everything.

Oh well, Nov. 1 I’ll be out from under a lot if this stuff anyway, doing some _major _downsizing, everything (and everybody) is going to a good home.


----------



## northmanlogging

how is a grader not set up for grading?

Can the ole D8 be inframed again? or is it just a lot of expensive to haul spare parts now.


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> how is a grader not set up for grading?
> 
> Can the ole D8 be inframed again? or is it just a lot of expensive to haul spare parts now.



The grader that was sent can’t use GPS, it’s one on one of _those _jobs. It’s a taxiway and as such has to fit the site plan, yada yada. No just making it look right, and it’s a big area we’re going to have to cut to grade. GPS just makes life a lot easier. It also had a scarifying cutting edge on the moulboard, which makes cutting rock harder once it’s been packed. 

That D8 is a monster, but it’s a 1983 model, and their run ended in 1987. At the very least Cat still makes parts for it, it’s an old mechanical 3408, which are funny creatures, and I guess I could drop a 3408E model in it and probably put some D9 parts in the undercarriage to make a super-high production frankendozer, but it’s at the point I don’t want to mess with it because it’s the oldest piece of equipment in the fleet and we need to be pulling wrenches on other gear.


----------



## Skeans

catbuster said:


> The grader that was sent can’t use GPS, it’s one on one of _those _jobs. It’s a taxiway and as such has to fit the site plan, yada yada. No just making it look right, and it’s a big area we’re going to have to cut to grade. GPS just makes life a lot easier. It also had a scarifying cutting edge on the moulboard, which makes cutting rock harder once it’s been packed.
> 
> That D8 is a monster, but it’s a 1983 model, and their run ended in 1987. At the very least Cat still makes parts for it, it’s an old mechanical 3408, which are funny creatures, and I guess I could drop a 3408E model in it and probably put some D9 parts in the undercarriage to make a super-high production frankendozer, but it’s at the point I don’t want to mess with it because it’s the oldest piece of equipment in the fleet and we need to be pulling wrenches on other gear.



Sounds like a good winter project.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## catbuster

Skeans said:


> Sounds like a good winter project.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I guess I could work something out to keep it, but come next Monday I won’t own it. Hell, I won’t even have a shop big enough to fit that tractor in. I don’t even have a contractor to build a new equipment shop & storage buildings yet, much less a design. Ha. It’s going to be fun starting over after shedding much of a leviathan I created.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> I guess I could work something out to keep it, but come next Monday I won’t own it. Hell, I won’t even have a shop big enough to fit that tractor in. I don’t even have a contractor to build a new equipment shop & storage buildings yet, much less a design. Ha. It’s going to be fun starting over after shedding much of a leviathan I created.


"stay small, keep it all"-some old logger. 

The headache from dealing with so much on a daily basis would likely put me in a home... bad enough with my small fleet and no employees, add a couple employees and the chaos they create, I'd be off the deep end in a hurry.


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> "stay small, keep it all"-some old logger.
> 
> The headache from dealing with so much on a daily basis would likely put me in a home... bad enough with my small fleet and no employees, add a couple employees and the chaos they create, I'd be off the deep end in a hurry.



I’m up to 37 employees, which is fine. I’ve been managing construction & other heavy industry for about a decade and a half now, just about half that working for myself, so I had some good instruction prior. Once I had a good project manager and a couple good foremen I was set, it’s just a matter of finding those people so my nose didn’t have to be in everything, from there I pretty much just directed operations. I just delegated, like I had to in every other large organization I’ve been in charge of.

Fun fact: I can’t bid projects to save my life. I’ve always had someone else do it, and then I would check it to see if it was doable from a production standpoint.

So yeah, I know how to set up a successful larger outfit. I just want to slow down, and get out of mid-size purgatory. I can’t attack big jobs like Kiewit, Walsh or Kokosing-much less Bechtel, and I won’t be able to get into their league, so I figure I’ll just go do my thing with a couple other guys and if I want to chase the big jobs again I’ll get on with one of those big outfits and play with their money.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> I’m up to 37 employees, which is fine. I’ve been managing construction & other heavy industry for about a decade and a half now, just about half that working for myself, so I had some good instruction prior. Once I had a good project manager and a couple good foremen I was set, it’s just a matter of finding those people so my nose didn’t have to be in everything, from there I pretty much just directed operations. I just delegated, like I had to in every other large organization I’ve been in charge of.
> 
> Fun fact: I can’t bid projects to save my life. I’ve always had someone else do it, and then I would check it to see if it was doable from a production standpoint.
> 
> So yeah, I know how to set up a successful larger outfit. I just want to slow down, and get out of mid-size purgatory. I can’t attack big jobs like Kiewit, Walsh or Kokosing-much less Bechtel, and I won’t be able to get into their league, so I figure I’ll just go do my thing with a couple other guys and if I want to chase the big jobs again I’ll get on with one of those big outfits and play with their money.


When I was a machinst, I was regularly a "supervisor" responsible for multiple shifts and dozens of employees. I did have folks I could depend on to take care of their areas, and when it worked it worked great. 

Now though, I simply don't want the headache, I'm responsible for me, and me alone now and its way more fun. 

As for bidding jobs, you know what needs done, so you should be able to figure out material requirements, and hours, from there its just math.


----------



## northmanlogging

Granted for massive civil type works, there is a whole bunch of stuff that needs to be gone through before bidding... and its a total ass ache. 

For smaller private stuff, I prefer to do time and materials with a rough estimate as to overall cost, which is fairly simple if you can guestimate materials and time on something as simple as a long driveway, clearing an acre, or a foundation dig. (hint under promise and over deliver bid high ish, and bill lower)

Things go sidewards when ologists get involved with every step of every phase and detail...


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> Granted for massive civil type works, there is a whole bunch of stuff that needs to be gone through before bidding... and its a total ass ache.
> 
> For smaller private stuff, I prefer to do time and materials with a rough estimate as to overall cost, which is fairly simple if you can guestimate materials and time on something as simple as a long driveway, clearing an acre, or a foundation dig. (hint under promise and over deliver bid high ish, and bill lower)
> 
> Things go sidewards when ologists get involved with every step of every phase and detail...



Been on sum big ones. Back on the ORB camera phones weren’t really good enough to be worth taking pictures, but this one at CVG was a monster. I was not the primary site contractor, that would be Kokosing, and then Whiting-Turner built the building, whereas I was involved with some of the pipe. Kokosing moved something like 1.5 million yards over one summer to cut down for the building, then did another… Lot for the rest of the site work. They set miles of those huge box culverts the WA800 is wrestling with in the picture, man do I love these big jobs. The trench box in the one picture is bigger than my house & was set in with a PC1250 and a Cat 6015. The fill pads had 5 D9s spread out. WT had its own batch plant on site. It was one of the coolest projects I’ve ever been involved with.

I can bid T&M and am very good at contract negotiation, but if I have to try to lump sum on something I don’t have a concrete plan how to do, that’s when I get myself in trouble. I have on more than on occasion, and that would be the biggest reason I still stick with having an estimator.

Of course, I probably won’t be doing anything I don’t know what to do with a pickup, an excavator, dozer, backhoe and a skid steer loader.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> Been on sum big ones. Back on the ORB camera phones weren’t really good enough to be worth taking pictures, but this one at CVG was a monster. I was not the primary site contractor, that would be Kokosing, and then Whiting-Turner built the building, whereas I was involved with some of the pipe. Kokosing moved something like 1.5 million yards over one summer to cut down for the building, then did another… Lot for the rest of the site work. They set miles of those huge box culverts the WA800 is wrestling with in the picture, man do I love these big jobs. The trench box in the one picture is bigger than my house & was set in with a PC1250 and a Cat 6015. The fill pads had 5 D9s spread out. WT had its own batch plant on site. It was one of the coolest projects I’ve ever been involved with.
> 
> I can bid T&M and am very good at contract negotiation, but if I have to try to lump sum on something I don’t have a concrete plan how to do, that’s when I get myself in trouble. I have on more than on occasion, and that would be the biggest reason I still stick with having an estimator.
> 
> Of course, I probably won’t be doing anything I don’t know what to do with a pickup, an excavator, dozer, backhoe and a skid steer loader.


Been looking for a dozer... but folks are insane about what they think a 40+ year old non turbo'd machine should cost around here.

I'm mean some ******* wants 20k for a 50's D6 with fixed blade, never mind no winch, and no its not restored. 

Had a backhoe, not real sure if it was worth owning, but i did make enough to help pay for my excavator

Anyway... i digress, One of the main reasons I generally do time and materials is that homeowners don't always know or even understand what they want, so I make a point of getting paid weekly and being very clear as to what needs to be done and why, keeps me from headaches further down the road. 

I would also suggest getting yourself a Dumb truck, out here trucks are getting hard to hire, so having one means I can just go do work instead of waiting upwards of a month for anyone to have time.


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## catbuster

Snort & I went on a hike through a patch of hardwoods today.

He did well, as usual.


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## northmanlogging

todays "easy" project: put two better tires and an aluminum wheel on the logger truck...

tires went on the wheels ok (seems like I have to relearn this process everytime)
but then the bead seater wouldn't work right so it took like 10 tries to get the bead seated on the first one...

then the air compressor on the disservice truck needed the gas changed out of the oil... again...

The bottle jack (one of my tree jacks) wouldn't work, good ole floor jack wasn't up to it at all... so I spent a good hour putting 2 pints of oil in it through a 3/16" fill hole... of course then the jack just sinks into the gravel of my shop (read side of the road in a mud hole)

finally get the truck jacked up, swapped out the 2 tires... tightening the last round of lug nuts... and the compressor runs out of gas... and wouldn't you know it, I have no unmixed gas here at the house... 
ended up using the 1" breaker bar to tighten them the rest of the way....

this quick 1-2 hour project on a sunday ended up taking closer to 6 hours


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## Jhenderson

As young men, whenever my buddy and I would run into the type of problems you mentioned his father would utter these words of wisdom: “You’ve got to work on everything before you can use it. He was right pretty near all the time”.


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## rwoods

I hate working on tools - especially those with flat tires and dead batteries. Seems to always happen when you're running short on time for the job at hand. But that is a part of life. 

Especially irritating is the truly avoidable - I got up early Saturday to stage logs for loading. I get there to find the tractor almost out of fuel and the filter iced. Had to turn around and go back home for fuel and conditioner. Got back to find two trailers waiting on me. 

Ron


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> I hate working on tools - especially those with flat tires and dead batteries. Seems to always happen when you're running short on time for the job at hand. But that is a part of life.
> 
> Especially irritating is the truly avoidable - I got up early Saturday to stage logs for loading. I get there to find the tractor almost out of fuel and the filter iced. Had to turn around and go back home for fuel and conditioner. Got back to find two trailers waiting on me.
> 
> Ron


ick...
the trouble with "borrowed" equipment, not that i'm like a role model for machine maintenance, but they generally have enough fuel to go an hour or 2, and the filters are in good shape... you might catch TB or hanta virus just looking at them... but they will run.


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## rwoods

Saturday was on me - it was my tractor. I am usually a little less aggravated with others than myself.

Ron


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## catbuster

Today I went to look at a hill & give my opinion as to if it would be acceptable fill for a building pad. It will be fine if they stay above a shale layer, but I still went ahead and ordered a proctor as a CYA measure. Then I went to said building pad to look at it with the project manager and superintendent from a company who were recently my competition. I asked why part of the building was staked into a swamp, and apparently it’s where the surveyor staked it. I “recommended” it be corrected before the pad is constructed. I went back and write a report about what I saw, and said and sent it to the owner.

I don’t think I’ll be able to work for too long as a consultant. It’s too boring and you spend too much time trying to avoid all liability. It has too regular working hours too for this guy who thrives in what most people call insane situations. I’m thinking I’ll have to either work for the owner or as a contractor. I’m just not wired for it.

Taking Leo to the vet tomorrow and then going home.

Ron, I worked for a man whose catchphrase was “I’m not mad, but I _am _disappointed.” That always cut me down to size, even if that was how he really felt-and implying that I should know better. I still feel that way when I do something stupid with a piece of equipment.


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## rwoods

cb, I am disappointed quite often - doesn’t always involve machinery.

Hope you guys enjoy Thanksgiving. Friday I am going back to the range to do a little .22 shooting with a friend and his son. I’ll check on the dozer.

Ron


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## rwoods

An operator friend assured me that I could adjust the tracks safely, so I went by the range to check on things yesterday. Good thing I did, Chief and an inmate were attempting to adjust the tracks. Fortunately, they were having a difficult time finding the right size wrench. Chief was told to simply loosen the alemite. I stopped them and showed them the nut to loosen slowly. We adjusted both sides to factory specs. Put 5 gallons of an off-brand universal trans/hydraulic oil in each tank (Deere oil is about $120 for 5 gals before tax. Off-brand $34). Hope to top it off tomorrow. Chief didn’t want me to check the final drives as we spent enough already in his opinion. Pay now or pay much more later. He wasn’t persuaded.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> An operator friend assured me that I could adjust the tracks safely, so I went by the range to check on things yesterday. Good thing I did, Chief and an inmate were attempting to adjust the tracks. Fortunately, they were having a difficult time finding the right size wrench. Chief was told to simply loosen the alemite. I stopped them and showed them the nut to loosen slowly. We adjusted both sides to factory specs. Put 5 gallons of an off-brand universal trans/hydraulic oil in each tank (Deere oil is about $120 for 5 gals before tax. Off-brand $34). Hope to top it off tomorrow. Chief didn’t want me to check the final drives as we spent enough already in his opinion. Pay now or pay much more later. He wasn’t persuaded.
> 
> Ron


yeah deere is rediculous in pricing... the napa stuff is all my skidder has eaten in 9 years... trans is still good, (hydraulic pump getting weak but thats from constantly running it out of fluid)

2 gallons of 80-90w would run about $30, finals... probably 10g's in labor alone.


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## rwoods

I’ll try to remember to bring a half inch breaker bar. While he was fussing I tried to open the inner with a ratchet they had been using, but the plug was rusted tight.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

a good hammer helps too... 
Get the breaker bar in and put some tension on er, then a healthy whack directly down on plug and bar... poor mans impact wrenceh. Should scare the rust free, or upset the locals, both a win.


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## catbuster

HyGard is good stuff, John Deere has good reason to be proud of it. The hydraulic oil in bulk we had on hand at the shop was Mobil ISO 46, and it worked very well for us. I think Case HyTran is probably the best oil available, and it’s in the $100/5 gallon price

On the ORB Walsh surprisingly kept very little on site, but what they kept was Cat Hydo, which was about $100/5 gallon pail. Kokosing built their temporary shop facility at CVG with an intermodal tank full of hydraulic oil. I was blown away, but I was blown away by a lot of things on that site.


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## NorthernMaverick

northmanlogging said:


> The War Dept, has informed me that a flock of Camp Robbers (grey jays) has found the neighborhood... Guess I have to start locking the doors on the crummy and log truck... and keep all my TP, lighters, spare gloves under lock and key...


I kind of missed the joke. Im not from the PNW, is there a way to explain?


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## rwoods

I am told those high dollar branded oils are chock full of vitamins and minerals not found in the generic stuff. I read they are better for clutches and brakes among other things. I run Hy-Gard in my tractor. At the end of the day, the dozer isn't mine and they were happy with Mag 1. I guess that some oil is better than no oil.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

NorthernMaverick said:


> I kind of missed the joke. Im not from the PNW, is there a way to explain?


ironically they were stealing the semi feral cats food this morning...

the story is that Grey Jays "camp robbers" are the ghosts of dead loggers, they are mischievous, fearless, and will pick up anything that looks even remotely valuable and hide it from you, not necessarily in their nest, just where you will never ever find it, there is almost always a group of 3 or more 2 to create mayhem, 1 for a look out, if there is more then 3 there is almost always a leader (the real trouble maker)

They are not large birds, littel bigger then a standard robin, soft grey with white patches and in winter have an almost fuzzy appearance, they are friendly even in the wildest of wildernesses, which is just a trick to get close to you and steal your gloves. The will work with "blue" jays i.e. Steller's Jays, but probably only as a long game con to get their vote and take over their feeding spots.


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## catbuster

rwoods said:


> I am told those high dollar branded oils are chock full of vitamins and minerals not found in the generic stuff. I read they are better for clutches and brakes among other things. I run Hy-Gard in my tractor. At the end of the day, the dozer isn't mine and they were happy with Mag 1. I guess that some oil is better than no oil.
> 
> Ron



HyTran & HyGard are meant specifically to be easy on clutches in powershift transmissions, the neighbor at home smoked the clutch packs in his 4240 and 4450 running cheap oil through the 12/4 transmissions in them. He went back to HyGard afterwards.

Hydo is great if you like extended service intervals and is easy on clutches and brakes in powershift dozers. I believe Cat recommends a different oil for transmissions (TDTO?) but you know how that goes-good 10W sometimes is just good 10W. They have a great guide on what oil to use where and when that’s available as a free PDF.

The Mobil AW46/SAE 10 treated us well, but it was also a fairly expensive oil. It helped that I could get it through the same supplier I got Delvac, Super-Moly and diesel through. I think when, or maybe if, I get going again I’ll probably stick with OEM, but I’ll probably run exclusively Caterpillar & Case, which makes life a lot easier.


----------



## NorthernMaverick

northmanlogging said:


> ironically they were stealing the semi feral cats food this morning...
> 
> the story is that Grey Jays "camp robbers" are the ghosts of dead loggers, they are mischievous, fearless, and will pick up anything that looks even remotely valuable and hide it from you, not necessarily in their nest, just where you will never ever find it, there is almost always a group of 3 or more 2 to create mayhem, 1 for a look out, if there is more then 3 there is almost always a leader (the real trouble maker)
> 
> They are not large birds, littel bigger then a standard robin, soft grey with white patches and in winter have an almost fuzzy appearance, they are friendly even in the wildest of wildernesses, which is just a trick to get close to you and steal your gloves. The will work with "blue" jays i.e. Steller's Jays, but probably only as a long game con to get their vote and take over their feeding spots.


Got it. Couldn't figure locking the truck from a bird, but now I get the ghost logger reference.


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## rwoods

Interesting Day at the Range.

I cut out two more shooting lanes today. For every tree marked to be cut there seem to be at least one unmarked large dead tree that could fall within the lane. I ran several tanks through the 500i.

One day, I will learn that when something doesn't quite make sense you should stop and check things a bit before proceeding. I was trying to fell a 15" beech that had wrapped itself around a large red oak and the two were growing over each other. I cut it at shoulder height and tried to pop it free with wedges. O got it to move but it wouldn't fall. I then cut a slot between the two so I could get a choker around it, thinking I could bump it free with a couple of tugs with the pickup. Nope. I then cut the hinge completely free. Still very little action beyond sliding my truck off the road. As I was backing up to relieve the tension I hear a loud crack. Now why would it be cracking when the tension is being relieved. Don't know, but what the heck I relieve a little more tension. Another loud crack, but no movement in the tree. So I get out to investigate. T'wasn't the tree cracking. It was my rear tail lights against a small tree. Probably $100 thrown away. Swapped the truck for the dozer and took care of things.

Later in the day I have three marked trees to fall and one large dying poplar. The 500i runs out of fuel. Fuel is back at the truck so I get my favorite old McCulloch to finish the job. Next to last tree was one of those you could fairly easily fall any direction. I picked my preferred direction. Anyway, I was too slow on the draw with a wedge during the back cut and a slight puff of wind sending the tree backwards pinching my saw. Don't know why I made such a huge mistake - maybe fatigue or too lackadaisical because it was an easy tree. Given the nature of red oak, I didn't stand around. At a safe distance without any brilliant ideas for a rescue, I contemplated the eminent painful demise of my favorite MAC. In a few minutes the oak started a small chair on the face side. Within 15 minutes, it finished the job falling sideways and spinning in the air while taking by saw for a ride to the ground. Then with a big bounce the tree slammed to the ground again just inches from the power head. Fortunately, the MAC survived. The Stihl bar suffered almost a foot long pinch of the top rail. 




I haven't had but one big chair before - also red oak. It was on the back side as is typical. That was over 40 years ago.

Best part of the day was I didn't get hurt.

Ron


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Interesting Day at the Range.
> 
> I cut out two more shooting lanes today. For every tree marked to be cut there seem to be at least one unmarked large dead tree that could fall within the lane. I ran several tanks through the 500i.
> 
> One day, I will learn that when something doesn't quite make sense you should stop and check things a bit before proceeding. I was trying to fell a 15" beech that had wrapped itself around a large red oak and the two were growing over each other. I cut it at shoulder height and tried to pop it free with wedges. O got it to move but it wouldn't fall. I then cut a slot between the two so I could get a choker around it, thinking I could bump it free with a couple of tugs with the pickup. Nope. I then cut the hinge completely free. Still very little action beyond sliding my truck off the road. As I was backing up to relieve the tension I hear a loud crack. Now why would it be cracking when the tension is being relieved. Don't know, but what the heck I relieve a little more tension. Another loud crack, but no movement in the tree. So I get out to investigate. T'wasn't the tree cracking. It was my rear tail lights against a small tree. Probably $100 thrown away. Swapped the truck for the dozer and took care of things.
> 
> Later in the day I have three marked trees to fall and one large dying poplar. The 500i runs out of fuel. Fuel is back at the truck so I get my favorite old McCulloch to finish the job. Next to last tree was one of those you could fairly easily fall any direction. I picked my preferred direction. Anyway, I was too slow on the draw with a wedge during the back cut and a slight puff of wind sending the tree backwards pinching my saw. Don't know why I made such a huge mistake - maybe fatigue or too lackadaisical because it was an easy tree. Given the nature of red oak, I didn't stand around. At a safe distance without any brilliant ideas for a rescue, I contemplated the eminent painful demise of my favorite MAC. In a few minutes the oak started a small chair on the face side. Within 15 minutes, it finished the job falling sideways and spinning in the air while taking by saw for a ride to the ground. Then with a big bounce the tree slammed to the ground again just inches from the power head. Fortunately, the MAC survived. The Stihl bar suffered almost a foot long pinch of the top rail.
> View attachment 944480
> View attachment 944478
> View attachment 944479
> 
> I haven't had but one big chair before - also red oak. It was on the back side as is typical. That was over 40 years ago.
> 
> Best part of the day was I didn't get hurt.
> 
> Ron


Some times the only thing that goes right is walking back in your own house at night on your own two feet.
Some times that's enough.


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## rwoods

Gologit said:


> Some times the only thing that goes right is walking back in your own house at night on your own two feet.
> Some times that's enough.


Probably why circumstances let me into a white collar career. The odds of me lasting long working in the woods whether cutting or operating machinery don't seem too good. Between falling debris and flipping a machine just to name two hazards, I likely would not be around to talk about it. I am given to understand that you spent a long career doing both so you know well that just a moment of inattention with either can kill you.

Every close call gets me to thinking I should just quit while I can, but the lure keeps pulling me back for another round.

Ron


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## rwoods

*First Impressions ...*

Tonight, my wife and I went to a nearby city to purchase a Christmas tree from the Boy Scouts. We made our selection and the adult in charge yelled to a young man, "Get over here! That thing ain't going to trim itself!" After seeing the boy struggle to crank the saw with the switch off, I stood back and pointed from a distance what branches to remove. Then I noticed him doing an undercut on a pinkie size branch before severing it from the top and I found myself thinking the boy has got some real potential.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
Ron


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## BlackCoffin

catbuster said:


> HyGard is good stuff, John Deere has good reason to be proud of it. The hydraulic oil in bulk we had on hand at the shop was Mobil ISO 46, and it worked very well for us. I think Case HyTran is probably the best oil available, and it’s in the $100/5 gallon price
> 
> On the ORB Walsh surprisingly kept very little on site, but what they kept was Cat Hydo, which was about $100/5 gallon pail. Kokosing built their temporary shop facility at CVG with an intermodal tank full of hydraulic oil. I was blown away, but I was blown away by a lot of things on that site.


I work for the largest raspberry farm in the US, all we run is hygard for our tractor oil. Picking machines all get food grade oils and grease. We rarely have hydraulic issues and we annually service the entire units and based on hours dump and refill the entire hydraulic system. Thankfully the outfit I work for is a strong believer in preventative maintenance. With a fleet of 66 harvesters and over 30 tractors they need to be ready to go. Farmers often work on weather windows and when it’s your time…it’s go until the job is done. Raspberry harvest is 30+ days, 16hr pick days, 7 days a week and things need to be going all the time. I feel for you guys where your management steers away from good preventative maintenance. Thankful to work where I do!


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## northmanlogging

welp, looks like my trust long suffering MacT needs retired, unless I can find new suspension washers...

took a big limb to the noggin this morning, sheared the rivet and tore the hell out of the literally brand new suspension...
pics will follow, this phone is hopped and I'm still in the woods


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## BlackCoffin

Well at least you’re ok


----------



## Jhenderson

When I took a shot that broke the suspension in my hard hat I took the rest of the day finding replacement parts and repairing the hat. Figured it was better than chopping and maybe taking a nap in the brush alone. But that’s just me talking.


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## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> welp, looks like my trust long suffering MacT needs retired, unless I can find new suspension washers...
> 
> took a big limb to the noggin this morning, sheared the rivet and tore the hell out of the literally brand new suspension...
> pics will follow, this phone is hopped and I'm still in the woods



Just retire it. I know it’s not the “cool” thing to do, but it’s the best shot of keeping your skull in one piece if you do happen to take a hit again.

Maybe try a Skullgard? I highly recommend them. Again, not the “cool” “logger” style, but dayum are they slick, comfortable and very low profile.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> Just retire it. I know it’s not the “cool” thing to do, but it’s the best shot of keeping your skull in one piece if you do happen to take a hit again.
> 
> Maybe try a Skullgard? I highly recommend them. Again, not the “cool” “logger” style, but dayum are they slick, comfortable and very low profile.


meh... I may of already fixed it lol. 
no dents to speak of, just sheared the rivet right off, fairly normal to trash the suspension after a good hit, so that has been replaced, not the first set of suspension I've replaced with this hat.


----------



## catbuster

I’ve been wearing my white cap style one for the better part of the last two weeks. MSA’s “sweatband” has always just rubbed my forehead/temples and irritated the hell out of it. I highly suggest getting a hold of some terry cloth front headbands. They do move around a little, but when I’m not wearing something like a do rag or beanie underneath it’s a livesaver. Bullard has the best suspension going and it’s not even close.

Of course, the reason I’ve been wearing it sucks. I’ve been in & out of Marshall & Graves counties in Kentucky since the 13th. I’ve never seen the damage of a violent (EF4/5) tornado in person… It challenges the damage in I saw in Paradise in 2018 in my mind as “worst.” No, I didn’t take pictures. One-it’s disrespectful to the people who were affected, and two… My job is USAR and later hazard identification.


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## rwoods

Posting this for @catbuster. I had the Deere 750B out for a little stroll on a ridge today to pull out two red oak stems I came across. A cake walk for the 750B.



A 48 foot and a 32 foot safely on the road.



The county thinks I need more HP. This little toy was recently dropped off - a Cat D7H.


It makes my truck look little. And my little tractor, a midget. Anyways, I have so far turned down the opportunity to run it, but I am softening to the idea. I am a little worried that I'll break some glass or get lost figuring how to operate it. I have kept my distance and haven't even looked in the cab. Do you think I should take it for a spin on flat ground?

Ron


----------



## catbuster

rwoods said:


> Posting this for @catbuster. I had the Deere 750B out for a little stroll on a ridge today to pull out two red oak stems I came across. A cake walk for the 750B.
> View attachment 978365
> 
> 
> A 48 foot and a 32 foot safely on the road.
> View attachment 978366
> 
> 
> The county thinks I need more HP. This little toy was recently dropped off - a Cat D7H.
> View attachment 978367
> 
> It makes my truck look little. And my little tractor, a midget. Anyways, I have so far turned down the opportunity to run it, but I am softening to the idea. I am a little worried that I'll break some glass or get lost figuring how to operate it. I have kept my distance and haven't even looked in the cab. Do you think I should take it for a spin on flat ground?
> 
> Ron



Yes. Take it out. Enjoy it. Those are some of the best tractors Cat ever made. I’d rather have an R model, but the D7 with a high drive may be the most versatile tractor Cat ever made. Just a little bit bigger than a 6 but with a lot more grunt and almost as much track on the ground as an 8.

It’s easier to run than the Deere, and much more capable. The direct drive means you won’t have to fight with hydraulic oil levels in the trans. It’s just a 3 speed powershift unit that Cat has had perfected since the 1950s. Diff steer, you won’t ever want to go back just based on how it runs.

As far as controls go, blade controls should be the same as the 750.

The transmission control will be on the left side of the seat. It’s a reverse U pattern. Three gears forward ascend as you pull towards you on the right side. Three gears ascend as you pull towards you on the left. The “neutral” position will be anywhere in the front, they usually sort of wander just to the right of center on the front.

Steering will be the two long levers in front of the transmission controls. Steering is done by the differential. This means that you’ll have less pulling or pushing power as you steer. The upside is that it’s a ~225 horse dozer. You probably won’t run out of power.

Arguably the most important control of all is the decelerator pedal. It’s on the floor on the right, it slows down the engine and consequently the dozer. Beyond a certain point it will also be a service brake. You need to use it to take off and change direction. Otherwise, you can pretty much use it as you want, but it’s best to let the dozer run full throttle under load.
Go and enjoy yourself. Cab glass is easy to replace.


----------



## rwoods

I am getting use to steering with my feet on the 750B. The brake pedal in the middle is frozen, so I still find myself trying to clutch with the left pedal especially after running the tractor loading trailers. I don't like that the throttle is pushed forward to speed up, but the transmission lever is pulled back to speed up. The two track drives also aren't equal. Right side is much stronger than the left. Probably poor maintenance or something out of adjustment. It travels straight but put it under a load while turning and it is very noticeable. The Deere 700 I pushed dirt with for about an hour one day was really sweet. I would take it any day over the 750. It was new, however. 

I don't recall the D6 that I have moved a few times to have been configured like you described the D7, but it has been a couple of years since I have been in it. If I recall correctly, it was pretty much like the Deere 700 - steering and transmission on same left-hand control. Or to a CAT man should I say the Deere controls were like the CAT.

I will keep you updated. 

Ron


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## catbuster

rwoods said:


> I am getting use to steering with my feet on the 750B. The brake pedal in the middle is frozen, so I still find myself trying to clutch with the left pedal especially after running the tractor loading trailers. I don't like that the throttle is pushed forward to speed up, but the transmission lever is pulled back to speed up. The two track drives also aren't equal. Right side is much stronger than the left. Probably poor maintenance or something out of adjustment. It travels straight but put it under a load while turning and it is very noticeable. The Deere 700 I pushed dirt with for about an hour one day was really sweet. I would take it any day over the 750. It was new, however.
> 
> I don't recall the D6 that I have moved a few times to have been configured like you described the D7, but it has been a couple of years since I have been in it. If I recall correctly, it was pretty much like the Deere 700 - steering and transmission on same left-hand control. Or to a CAT man should I say the Deere controls were like the CAT.
> 
> I will keep you updated.
> 
> Ron



Dozer controls have varied wildly over the years. Even the bigger tractors are totally different model to model. Cat’s D6M-D11R used three different drive and steer controls in the same generation of diff steer machines.

The hystat machines, and even more recent electric drive tractors, are much more uniform in drive controls. I can’t lie, I don’t like the combined controls on a dozer. On a skid steer or crawler loader they can’t be beat, but continuous straight line work I’ll sometimes find myself swerving a little as I hit bumps side to side. I find that interesting, especially given that a lot of the small hystat machines are built for fine, finish work.

The problem with these systems is that they work well for proportioning hydraulic flow to accomplish the movement of the tractor, they’re not as adaptable for direct drive where the mechanical system is multiple times more complex between a powershift transmission (complex enough already), torque converter (when should it lock up?), and steering with the differential or steering clutches.

A D7R-series after that H model-would be the first year of the Cat paddle steer. It’s a system where pushing or pulling one lever did your steering, twisting that same lever did your directional control (away-forward & towards-reverse) and it had two buttons for gear changes. Cat still uses it on the D5-D8 tractors. It’s fine, but I prefer the U shift & lever steer. It just goes right back to a datum of straight because your hands let go of the steer controls.

Either way, direct drive is more responsive, and makes for a better handling tractor. It’s a more efficient and durable system. The advantage to hystat is the literally infinite range of speeds available for fine work at full power, which is advantageous as it allows you to have a broad variation of the rate you spread material & you can spend less time setting things to a fine grade.

As far as application, Cat & Komatsu run direct drive for their big tractors, as did International/Dresser and Fiat-Allis before they were bought out. Deere dozers are all hystat, up to about a D8 size, and Liebherr builds a hystat dozer that’s about the size of a D10 or Komatsu D375. If you look at the market leaders in the big dozer market it should be obvious which system works better-and the PR776 has 150 horsepower over a D10 or 375, but has the same blade capacity, which in my mind puts the D10 at ~20% more efficient.

Wow, that was a lot of rambling. About dozer controls and drivelines.


----------



## madhatte

Looks to be military surplus. I have never regretted getting something on the cheap from the gov. They do buy from the cheapest bidder, yes, but the bids are accepted based on the contract. Generally they know what they want regarding machinery.


----------



## crazyhorse666

northmanlogging said:


> ironically they were stealing the semi feral cats food this morning...
> 
> the story is that Grey Jays "camp robbers" are the ghosts of dead loggers, they are mischievous, fearless, and will pick up anything that looks even remotely valuable and hide it from you, not necessarily in their nest, just where you will never ever find it, there is almost always a group of 3 or more 2 to create mayhem, 1 for a look out, if there is more then 3 there is almost always a leader (the real trouble maker)
> 
> They are not large birds, littel bigger then a standard robin, soft grey with white patches and in winter have an almost fuzzy appearance, they are friendly even in the wildest of wildernesses, which is just a trick to get close to you and steal your gloves. The will work with "blue" jays i.e. Steller's Jays, but probably only as a long game con to get their vote and take over their feeding spots.


Kea's don't usually bother with subtlety. They know they're smarter than the average person so just take what they want.



They also seem to like screwing with people just for fun.





I've met plenty of people who would likely fail that test.
I think the presenter might as he doesn't seem to understand the difference between a Kiwi and an Aussie.


----------



## rwoods

catbuster said:


> Dozer controls have varied wildly over the years. Even the bigger tractors are totally different model to model. Cat’s D6M-D11R used three different drive and steer controls in the same generation of diff steer machines.
> 
> The hystat machines, and even more recent electric drive tractors, are much more uniform in drive controls. I can’t lie, I don’t like the combined controls on a dozer. On a skid steer or crawler loader they can’t be beat, but continuous straight line work I’ll sometimes find myself swerving a little as I hit bumps side to side. I find that interesting, especially given that a lot of the small hystat machines are built for fine, finish work.
> 
> The problem with these systems is that they work well for proportioning hydraulic flow to accomplish the movement of the tractor, they’re not as adaptable for direct drive where the mechanical system is multiple times more complex between a powershift transmission (complex enough already), torque converter (when should it lock up?), and steering with the differential or steering clutches.
> 
> A D7R-series after that H model-would be the first year of the Cat paddle steer. It’s a system where pushing or pulling one lever did your steering, twisting that same lever did your directional control (away-forward & towards-reverse) and it had two buttons for gear changes. Cat still uses it on the D5-D8 tractors. It’s fine, but I prefer the U shift & lever steer. It just goes right back to a datum of straight because your hands go off the steer controls.
> 
> Either way, direct drive is more responsive, and makes for a better handling tractor. It’s a more efficient and durable system. The advantage to hystat is the literally infinite range of speeds available for fine work, which is advantageous as it allows you to have a broad variation of the rate you spread material & you can spend less time leveling things to a fine grade.
> 
> As far as application, Cat & Komatsu run direct drive for their big tractors, as did International/Dresser and Fiat-Allis before they were bought out. Deere dozers are all hystat, up to about a D8 size, and Liebherr builds a hystat dozer that’s about the size of a D10 or Komatsu D375. If you look at the market leaders in the big dozer market it should be obvious which system works better-and the PR776 has 150 horsepower over a D10 or 375, but has the same blade capacity, which in my mind puts the D10 at ~20% more efficient.
> 
> Wow, that was a lot of rambling. About dozer controls and drivelines.


Thanks for the lesson. I have never done any true grading with a dozer - mainly just pushing dirt from point A to point B. 

I get the move to fluid, but I like mechanical connections generally. Army swapped the manual transmission for automatics because new recruits couldn't drive manuals - so my truck (the last rebuild of the M35 series) has an Allison. It has no park position, just the hand brake which translates to you can't park it anywhere without chocks - an impossible task at times without a helper. Also, you can't roll start it. My little Deere has a hydraulic clutch that is disengaged when it isn't running or the fluid level is too low. No roll starting it either. Impossible to load it with low fluid - goes so far up the ramps and then disengages. 

Ron


----------



## catbuster

rwoods said:


> Thanks for the lesson. I have never done any true grading with a dozer - mainly just pushing dirt from point A to point B.
> 
> I get the move to fluid, but I like mechanical connections generally. Army swapped the manual transmission for automatics because new recruits couldn't drive manuals - so my truck (the last rebuild of the M35 series) has an Allison. It has no park position, just the hand brake which translates to you can't park it anywhere without chocks - an impossible task at times without a helper. Also, you can't roll start it. My little Deere has a hydraulic clutch that is disengaged when it isn't running or the fluid level is too low. No roll starting it either. Impossible to load it with low fluid - goes so far up the ramps and then disengages.
> 
> Ron



Fire apparatus have gone entirely to Allison automatics over the last 20 years, to the end that the only transmissions NFPA will rate are the 3000EVS and 4000EVS. They have no “park” either. The trans goes to neutral and the parking brake is applied. Every heavy-duty truck with an automatic transmission, from on highway dumps, fire apparatus up to off highway haul trucks are like that.

Of course, I have strong feelings about NFPA policies, like limiting fire truck top speeds to 68 miles per hour or 60 for a GVWR over 50,000. Or really, all of 1901 for that matter. Lots of over-protective pansy-ass stuff going on. I’m too young to be feeling that way. And I’m usually the guy saying safety rules are written in blood.

Anyway, that D7 has a torque converter, with no clutch, like an automatic transmission. In a high load, lugging application like you’ll see in a dozer, it acts as a torque multiplier and prevents a stall. Differential steer is actually a pretty ingenious design if you ever want to take the time to read the design & principle of the thing. I am probably not capable of giving an explanation that would cover it clearly enough, but it’s not exactly how you would think, or straightforward.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> Fire apparatus have gone entirely to Allison automatics over the last 20 years, to the end that the only transmissions NFPA will rate are the 3000EVS and 4000EVS. They have no “park” either. The trans goes to neutral and the parking brake is applied. Every heavy-duty truck with an automatic transmission, from on highway dumps, fire apparatus up to off highway haul trucks are like that.
> 
> Of course, I have strong feelings about NFPA policies, like limiting fire truck top speeds to 68 miles per hour or 60 for a GVWR over 50,000. Or really, all of 1901 for that matter. Lots of over-protective pansy-ass stuff going on. I’m too young to be feeling that way. And I’m usually the guy saying safety rules are written in blood.
> 
> Anyway, that D7 has a torque converter, with no clutch, like an automatic transmission. In a high load, lugging application like you’ll see in a dozer, it acts as a torque multiplier and prevents a stall. Differential steer is actually a pretty ingenious design if you ever want to take the time to read the design & principle of the thing. I am probably not capable of giving an explanation that would cover it clearly enough, but it’s not exactly how you would think, or straightforward.


seems to me that every once in awhile especially in wildfire situations, that exceeding 68mph could be the difference between boy that was close, and oh thats hot...


----------



## rwoods

Can’t go rushing to a fire in a M35A3 though I have seen several used as brush trucks - 56 mph at max rpms.

I’ll check out the differential steering. Many years ago, I read of high speed designs for the military that uses multiple diffs. I can’t remember the exact configuration, but it prompted me to think about using three open diff design on a common plane. Power to center diff to short axles, each to the axle side of two outboard diffs with outer axles to the load. Hydraulic motors on the pinion shaft of each outboard diff. To steer the hydraulic motors turn the pinions, one speeding up the load axle and the other slowing the opposite load axle. I believe the weak point is the stress on the spiders. Not having any machinist or welding skills, I thought of using existing self contained automotive diffs. At the time the only suitable diff available to me was from a Corvette or from a similar swing arm suspension so I never built one to see if it would work. Lots of diffs available now. One day I may just build one to see if it will work. Nice buggy drive if it does. I don’t think it would be truly proportional based upon the turning radius, but I believe it will turn.

Ron


----------



## rwoods

Just watched a short video explaining CAT’s patented differential steering. Appears to be the same basic concept as I described but using outboard planetary gears sets instead of outboard ring and pinion gear sets. I would think their design would be a lot stronger. Either way the concept is so simple, you have to wonder why it wasn’t laid out as a design in the early 1900s even though the necessary components were not then available.
Ron


----------



## Jhenderson

catbuster said:


> Fire apparatus have gone entirely to Allison automatics over the last 20 years, to the end that the only transmissions NFPA will rate are the 3000EVS and 4000EVS. They have no “park” either. The trans goes to neutral and the parking brake is applied. Every heavy-duty truck with an automatic transmission, from on highway dumps, fire apparatus up to off highway haul trucks are like that.
> 
> Of course, I have strong feelings about NFPA policies, like limiting fire truck top speeds to 68 miles per hour or 60 for a GVWR over 50,000. Or really, all of 1901 for that matter. Lots of over-protective pansy-ass stuff going on. I’m too young to be feeling that way. And I’m usually the guy saying safety rules are written in blood.
> 
> Anyway, that D7 has a torque converter, with no clutch, like an automatic transmission. In a high load, lugging application like you’ll see in a dozer, it acts as a torque multiplier and prevents a stall. Differential steer is actually a pretty ingenious design if you ever want to take the time to read the design & principle of the thing. I am probably not capable of giving an explanation that would cover it clearly enough, but it’s not exactly how you would think, or straightforward.


 When our fire dept bought our last Pierce engine we had to sign a waiver to get the max speed limiter increased. It’s pretty bad when you’re responding on the highway and can‘t keep up with regular traffic.


----------



## catbuster

rwoods said:


> Just watched a short video explaining CAT’s patented differential steering. Appears to be the same basic concept as I described but using outboard planetary gears sets instead of outboard ring and pinion gear sets. I would think their design would be a lot stronger. Either way the concept is so simple, you have to wonder why it wasn’t laid out as a design in the early 1900s even though the necessary components were not then available.
> Ron


Don’t quote me on it-but I believe some of the German tanks in world war two used a variation of diff steer. That would be the earliest iteration I can think of. Also, the design for a differential steer you brought up in an earlier post sounds similar to something International Harvester did with their later tractors. If you can pull up a service manual or set of drawings for something like a TD-25C it may help you out.

It really is (sorta) simple, but I would guess when the world of tracks ran on steering clutches it would require some seriously out of the box thinking. I mean, the D10 and D11 still use standard clutches and brakes.


----------



## Woodslasher

crazyhorse666 said:


> Kea's don't usually bother with subtlety. They know they're smarter than the average person so just take what they want.
> 
> 
> 
> They also seem to like screwing with people just for fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've met plenty of people who would likely fail that test.
> I think the presenter might as he doesn't seem to understand the difference between a Kiwi and an Aussie.



A Kiwi is a fruit and an Aussie is a guy from down under, right?


----------



## madhatte

catbuster said:


> Of course, I have strong feelings about NFPA policies, like limiting fire truck top speeds to 68 miles per hour or 60 for a GVWR over 50,000. Or really, all of 1901 for that matter.


You will be interested to hear that NFPA 1901 and 1906 (Wildland apparatus) and another to do I think with aviation are about to all be rolled into the new NFPA 1900 covering all in a single guidance. I think the publication date is to be later this year. I called those guys a little bit ago because we're supposed to be transitioning to EV's over the next few years and there is no guidance on that at all, not NFPA, not NWCG, none. I sent a note up the chain seeking guidance and have not gotten any response at all yet.


----------



## rwoods

Despite the thorough tutorial from catbuster, my inexperience showed itself in a rather embarrassing way today. It seems no one at the range has a key to the D7 and the grounds are looking a little unsightly with the inmates mowing around it and the other parked equipment including all my stuff, so being a proud owner of a CAT key, I fired up the 7 and drove it around a bit. After parking it, I turn the key to off and it kept running. I thought given the fancy dash that it would have a solenoid to cut the fuel. I looked everywhere for a switch or a mechanical shut off but couldn't find one. Turned the master switch off - still running. Didn't make sense that a solenoid would get stuck holding a valve open, but I have had all kinds of surprises with old military stuff. Range boss was at a loss as well. I called one of my equipment friends who told me what to do - otherwise it would probably still be idling.

First ride impressions, reverse seemed to be pretty fast, a feeling enhanced by my unfamiliarity and the high perch. Steering was great, but the tracks tore up the ground significantly more than the smaller Deere 750B. Other than moving a D6 around a bit, I have not run a high drive so maybe this is typical - at certain forward speeds the tracks had a wave action going on that was a bit disconcerting. Nonetheless, I think with a little practice I could get comfortable. No left steering pedal to be clutched in error. Decelerator worked great as opposed to the Deere's center pedal which now that it has loosen up functions more like a delayed on and off switch than a brake. 

Ron


----------



## catbuster

if the tracks are moving up and down a bunch, measure the slack. The spec is 2” off a straight edge across the front idler to the first roller to the top of the lowest grouser bar. High drive machines do this-think about how far that track has to fall off the sprocket to get to the roller.

A D7H weighs 50 to 55,000 pounds depending on the setup (blade, ripper, winch, pad size). It’s kinda like the Stihl 046 of bulldozers, a borderline production class machine, which is to say that somebody without a lot of seat time and a good feeling in their butt, plus some space to run it so they don’t have to steer quickly, is going to make a mess.

I want to play with Cat’s current D7 offering (265 horsepower at 65,000 pounds) but right now I was told I’d have to order a new one, and that’s expensive. Given that I’m not in that industry anymore, it would be a little senseless as well.


----------



## rwoods

I didn’t measure anything but the tracks appear taut.

I won’t be taking it up the hill or in the woods. If I had some flat ground, I would be all over it. As you would expect it appears to be a well thought out machine.

Ron


----------



## catbuster

I got up at 4:30 this morning and the heat index was already 90…




I don’t consider myself a wuss, but I mean… Heat indices have been up in the 110 range and aren’t forecasted to drop out until the weekend.


----------



## rwoods

It is cooler here at the beach in FL than it is back in Tennessee.

Not much of a beach guy so I have been spending my time looking for old small JD crawlers. Light enough to tow behind my pickup but stout enough to drag tree length stems. I found a few 440s with 2/53 DD. 500# more pull than the JD putt putts, but I am not sure the neighbors can handle the noise. Not sure I can either.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> It is cooler here at the beach in FL than it is back in Tennessee.
> 
> Not much of a beach guy so I have been spending my time looking for old small JD crawlers. Light enough to tow behind my pickup but stout enough to drag tree length stems. I found a few 440s with 2/53 DD. 500# more pull than the JD putt putts, but I am not sure the neighbors can handle the noise. Not sure I can either.
> 
> Ron


them ole 2-53 destroits aren't all that loud, Johny deere also has some skookum mufflers that go with em. 
That said, if they didn't have a destroit I'd be more inclined to get one my self.


----------



## rwoods

Don’t encourage me, NM. I was hoping for more cold water to be thrown on my thoughts of a toy crawler.

Nebraska tests for the 440 - DD drawbar pull is a tad over 7000# right at its weight. Gas pulls around 6500#, about 400# under its weight. 1010s start gaining weight through the 350s; all too heavy for my truck and trailer.

420C or 430C would be easier to tow as they are really light - but the transmission case is probably not tough enough for the stresses I would put on it.

My dad had a 1958 420w wheel tractor with a 5 speed and directional reverser which he bought new. Redline was around 1800 rpms. It did a lot of work for a 26hp tractor. It was still humming when he sold it after 25 years of use.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging




----------



## catbuster

Some days it’s better to be lucky than good. Matt, I think you’re both. 

Today I was neither. 




That is the first time I’ve stuck a saw in… Five years. On a little cleanup job of all things.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> Some days it’s better to be lucky than good. Matt, I think you’re both.
> 
> Today I was neither.
> 
> View attachment 1004626
> 
> 
> That is the first time I’ve stuck a saw in… Five years. On a little cleanup job of all things.


its ok, it happens to all of us... part of being a man etc..


----------



## madhatte

Was there... an audience?


----------



## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> Was there... an audience?


no witnesses... you have to take my word for it


----------



## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> its ok, it happens to all of us... part of being a man etc..



I guess, man. But I would have figured it would have been some big tree where I was in a hurry clearing a tangled mess of blowdown. Turns out, you pay better attention in those instances and bigger trees are easier to cut than the small ones. 

The better part was that my 461 flat out _refused _to even start to cut the damned thing out. It wouldn’t even flood. And yes Karl, it had gas in it.


----------



## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> I guess, man. But I would have figured it would have been some big tree where I was in a hurry clearing a tangled mess of blowdown. Turns out, you pay better attention in those instances and bigger trees are easier to cut than the small ones.
> 
> The better part was that my 461 flat out _refused _to even start to cut the damned thing out. It wouldn’t even flood. And yes Karl, it had gas in it.


they say that struggle builds character.


----------



## northmanlogging

picked up new fire wagon today, bought with cash, drove it straight to the sight, popped the top... 1/4 full of dry hardened silt... and a **** load of cobwebs...

Ok, I'll just put some water in, it will soften up, and wash right out... kinda, gotter half full and put the fire hose to er helped mix it all up, then drained via fire hose (both drains at this point were open, but blocked with muck. 

then I proceed to fill er up, tie a chain on to move it into its parking spot with ye ole essavator...and I over balance the damned thing it stands nearly straight up on its ass, and pours out just about every bit of the 400 gallons I've spent the last 2 hours filling...

on the good side because of my antics getting it back on its feet... most of the sediment is gone, or at least mixed with water enough to drain out. 


So my 1/2 day of a pleasant drive, and a quick fill up back home just after lunch turned into a prolonged picnic in 100+ degree heat, with wet socks, covered in mud of dubious origins...


----------



## northmanlogging

guy I got it from, "had" another one, complete with pump and fire tool box, he had lent to another local logger, who then smashed said tool box and all the fire tools inside it... 
Same guy a few years ago, had been renting an essavator from same guy... and smashed the cab level with the engine... so he ended up buying said essavator, some how these two are still friends lol, I've never met the guy who keeps smashing all the fist guys stuff, but the first guy keeps rebuilding it, and then dude buys em off him... anyway old loggers when you can find them make good allies when it comes to rescuing junk.


----------



## rwoods

rwoods said:


> Don’t encourage me, NM. I was hoping for more cold water to be thrown on my thoughts of a toy crawler.
> 
> Nebraska tests for the 440 - DD drawbar pull is a tad over 7000# right at its weight. Gas pulls around 6500#, about 400# under its weight. 1010s start gaining weight through the 350s; all too heavy for my truck and trailer.
> 
> 420C or 430C would be easier to tow as they are really light - but the transmission case is probably not tough enough for the stresses I would put on it.
> 
> My dad had a 1958 420w wheel tractor with a 5 speed and directional reverser which he bought new. Redline was around 1800 rpms. It did a lot of work for a 26hp tractor. It was still humming when he sold it after 25 years of use.
> 
> Ron



Well, ripping the diverter wires and bending up my steel hydraulic lines on my little Deere 4710 pushed me over the edge. After a lot of research, weight limitations (wanted to keep my existing trailer) and nostalgia, I bought a 1958 John Deere 420C similarly equipped as my dad's 420W wheel tractor. It is a late model so it has the engine and transmissions upgrades like the early 440 but without the heavier finals. It weighs slightly over 6,000# and will pull its weight. Carburetor issues kept it sidelined for a while, but after the fourth float, we had a fit. In the meantime, I rebuilt the generator, replaced the points, coil, condenser, cap, rotor, wires and plugs, fashioned a winch mount and plumbed a small military surplus hydraulic humvee winch. I got a little anxious when I discovered that once again everything on the internet is not correct - in this case, the hydraulic system is not 1500 psi but rather a lowly 850 psi which means my winch will operate at about 60% of its rated capacity. Nevertheless, it works fine for the little dozer and I don't have the fear of grenading it like my last one that i was running at 170% or more of its capacity.

Old bitzer will have a cow as I am using the little dozer on a familiar site - a site over 6 years ago I was given permission to cut everything but saw timber. Being an igmo, saw timber to me is nice straight stuff 15" dbh or so and up. In 2016, I cut a bunch until bitzer pointed out I was cutting stuff he would sell. So I left the site with a big donut hole clearing I had made to fall trees into. Fast forward to the end of June of this year when the property was sold and the new owner gave the wood ministry 30 days to cut anything we wanted so long as we left 3' or higher stumps. The white oaks alone that I am felling for firewood would easily pay for my dozer many times over. I think of bitzer and I think of the pavilion and equipment shed I want to build every time I put one down. The donut hole is now wall to wall with straight 20' to 30' tall 2" to 4" saplings. Those saplings are what took out my diverter wires and bented my hydraulic lines. The little dozer with its 6' blade just bowls them over. However, it doesn't have enough traction to uprooted them as it goes, which means I am creating and encountering spring loaded hazards at a level far above my experience and liking. I can't wait to be done at this site and move to a mature woods.

Here's a few pictures of the old dozer and some background shots:

The seat is not original. Nor are my homemade winch mount and the new muffler. All else pretty much is.



First major mishap. Just one of many learning experiences. I previously knocked off the old muffler and put the first dent in the 64 year old sheet metal.



"Custom" wrench I made to tension the tracks. Apparently, Deere has been making "compact" tractors long before that term became a benchmark.



A few of the white oak logs. I started skidding 60' lengths, but the hill in the background proved too much so I started bucking to 20'.



Nice hickory I felled today. The high lift on the blade is handy for knocking stems off those 3'+ tall stumps.



White oak. Don't tell on me - I got a little short on that stump.



Ron


----------



## rwoods

Just edited my post as it appears that auto-correct changed "diverter" to "diverted". Maybe it was just thinking of most of my daily plans. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Well, ripping the diverter wires and bending up my steel hydraulic lines on my little Deere 4710 pushed me over the edge. After a lot of research, weight limitations (wanted to keep my existing trailer) and nostalgia, I bought a 1958 John Deere 420C similarly equipped as my dad's 420W wheel tractor. It is a late model so it has the engine and transmissions upgrades like the early 440 but without the heavier finals. It weighs slightly over 6,000# and will pull its weight. Carburetor issues kept it sidelined for a while, but after the fourth float, we had a fit. In the meantime, I rebuilt the generator, replaced the points, coil, condenser, cap, rotor, wires and plugs, fashioned a winch mount and plumbed a small military surplus hydraulic humvee winch. I got a little anxious when I discovered that once again everything on the internet is not correct - in this case, the hydraulic system is not 1500 psi but rather a lowly 850 psi which means my winch will operate at about 60% of its rated capacity. Nevertheless, it works fine for the little dozer and I don't have the fear of grenading it like my last one that i was running at 170% or more of its capacity.
> 
> Old bitzer will have a cow as I am using the little dozer on a familiar site - a site over 6 years ago I was given permission to cut everything but saw timber. Being an igmo, saw timber to me is nice straight stuff 15" dbh or so and up. In 2016, I cut a bunch until bitzer pointed out I was cutting stuff he would sell. So I left the site with a big donut hole clearing I had made to fall trees into. Fast forward to the end of June of this year when the property was sold and the new owner gave the wood ministry 30 days to cut anything we wanted so long as we left 3' or higher stumps. The white oaks alone that I am felling for firewood would easily pay for my dozer many times over. I think of bitzer and I think of the pavilion and equipment shed I want to build every time I put one down. The donut hole is now wall to wall with straight 20' to 30' tall 2" to 4" saplings. Those saplings are what took out my diverter wires and bented my hydraulic lines. The little dozer with its 6' blade just bowls them over. However, it doesn't have enough traction to uprooted them as it goes, which means I am creating and encountering spring loaded hazards at a level far above my experience and liking. I can't wait to be done at this site and move to a mature woods.
> 
> Here's a few pictures of the old dozer and some background shots:
> 
> The seat is not original. Nor are my homemade winch mount and the new muffler. All else pretty much is.
> View attachment 1011496
> 
> 
> First major mishap. Just one of many learning experiences. I previously knocked off the old muffler and put the first dent in the 64 year old sheet metal.
> View attachment 1011498
> 
> 
> "Custom" wrench I made to tension the tracks. Apparently, Deere has been making "compact" tractors long before that term became a benchmark.
> View attachment 1011499
> 
> 
> A few of the white oak logs. I started skidding 60' lengths, but the hill in the background proved too much so I started bucking to 20'.
> View attachment 1011500
> 
> 
> Nice hickory I felled today. The high lift on the blade is handy for knocking stems off those 3'+ tall stumps.
> View attachment 1011504
> 
> 
> White oak. Don't tell on me - I got a little short on that stump.
> View attachment 1011507
> 
> 
> Ron


now yer loggin!


----------



## madhatte

Way to run what you brung to get the logs out!


----------



## jolj

rwoods said:


> Well, ripping the diverter wires and bending up my steel hydraulic lines on my little Deere 4710 pushed me over the edge. After a lot of research, weight limitations (wanted to keep my existing trailer) and nostalgia, I bought a 1958 John Deere 420C similarly equipped as my dad's 420W wheel tractor. It is a late model so it has the engine and transmissions upgrades like the early 440 but without the heavier finals. It weighs slightly over 6,000# and will pull its weight. Carburetor issues kept it sidelined for a while, but after the fourth float, we had a fit. In the meantime, I rebuilt the generator, replaced the points, coil, condenser, cap, rotor, wires and plugs, fashioned a winch mount and plumbed a small military surplus hydraulic humvee winch. I got a little anxious when I discovered that once again everything on the internet is not correct - in this case, the hydraulic system is not 1500 psi but rather a lowly 850 psi which means my winch will operate at about 60% of its rated capacity. Nevertheless, it works fine for the little dozer and I don't have the fear of grenading it like my last one that i was running at 170% or more of its capacity.
> 
> Old bitzer will have a cow as I am using the little dozer on a familiar site - a site over 6 years ago I was given permission to cut everything but saw timber. Being an igmo, saw timber to me is nice straight stuff 15" dbh or so and up. In 2016, I cut a bunch until bitzer pointed out I was cutting stuff he would sell. So I left the site with a big donut hole clearing I had made to fall trees into. Fast forward to the end of June of this year when the property was sold and the new owner gave the wood ministry 30 days to cut anything we wanted so long as we left 3' or higher stumps. The white oaks alone that I am felling for firewood would easily pay for my dozer many times over. I think of bitzer and I think of the pavilion and equipment shed I want to build every time I put one down. The donut hole is now wall to wall with straight 20' to 30' tall 2" to 4" saplings. Those saplings are what took out my diverter wires and bented my hydraulic lines. The little dozer with its 6' blade just bowls them over. However, it doesn't have enough traction to uprooted them as it goes, which means I am creating and encountering spring loaded hazards at a level far above my experience and liking. I can't wait to be done at this site and move to a mature woods.
> 
> Here's a few pictures of the old dozer and some background shots:
> 
> The seat is not original. Nor are my homemade winch mount and the new muffler. All else pretty much is.
> View attachment 1011496
> 
> 
> First major mishap. Just one of many learning experiences. I previously knocked off the old muffler and put the first dent in the 64 year old sheet metal.
> View attachment 1011498
> 
> 
> "Custom" wrench I made to tension the tracks. Apparently, Deere has been making "compact" tractors long before that term became a benchmark.
> View attachment 1011499
> 
> 
> A few of the white oak logs. I started skidding 60' lengths, but the hill in the background proved too much so I started bucking to 20'.
> View attachment 1011500
> 
> 
> Nice hickory I felled today. The high lift on the blade is handy for knocking stems off those 3'+ tall stumps.
> View attachment 1011504
> 
> 
> White oak. Don't tell on me - I got a little short on that stump.
> View attachment 1011507
> 
> 
> Ron


I want one!


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## rwoods

jolj said:


> I want one!



They are out there for less $ than a nice riding lawn mower. You just have to look for them. However, you can sink a lot of $$ in one that isn’t in good running order.

Ron


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## rwoods

Hopefully, my last chest high cut for awhile.

Beech.



I have packed and moved back to the shooting range. Hopefully, it will soon dry up enough to get the truck up the hill.



The more I run the little crawler, the more I like it.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

hel ron you ain't living until yer running an 084 on spring boards cutting over yer head... (wait no... that totally sucked and I don't suggest it)


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## catbuster

northmanlogging said:


> hel ron you ain't living until yer running an 084 on spring boards cutting over yer head... (wait no... that totally sucked and I don't suggest it)



I’ve run a 395 overhead. My arms felt like jello for three days. An 084? On springboards? You’re more of a man than I, sir.


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## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> I’ve run a 395 overhead. My arms felt like jello for three days. An 084? On springboards? You’re more of a man than I, sir.


Think that was the day I finally broke a spring board... luckily the ground was soft and a slight slope so it was mostly funny.


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## rwoods

I thought about you spring board PNW fallers a few Saturdays back when cutting this white oak - I told myself that I had no right to complain.













Ron


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> I thought about you spring board PNW fallers a few Saturdays back when cutting this white oak - I told myself that I had no right to complain.
> 
> View attachment 1017234
> 
> 
> View attachment 1017235
> 
> 
> View attachment 1017236
> 
> 
> View attachment 1017237
> 
> 
> Ron


Spring boards are fun, until your up 2 or 3 levels and realize you have to get off the damned thing in a hurry... Best part is hooking your toe and "hopping" it around to get access to the offside... while the homeowner S's their pants...


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## madhatte

DAAAAAAANG that is a nice old McC. Color me envious! 

(tree ain't half bad either)


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## rwoods

madhatte said:


> DAAAAAAANG that is a nice old McC. Color me envious!
> 
> (tree ain't half bad either)


I gathered a few of the 82cc ten series and the SP125s before they got so expensive. I have since thinned my working herd down to 4 of the 82cc and 4 SP125Cs. This spring I busted the crankcase on by one and only purchased new MAC - a now 40-year-old 70cc PM700.

______________

Glad to be back at the range. No real cutting as it has been dry enough to haul a few loads down the hill. A three-hour round trip of only about 15 miles. I need to borrow NM's self-loader - that would shave 30 minutes or more off the trip and haul 4 times as much.

Ready to be strapped, the first load down the hill in months. As you can see, I don't have a headache rack or bunk stakes, so I limit the loads, secure with five straps, keep under 5 mph off the pavement and 30 mph on the pavement, and stay off the main highways as much as possible.



Little crawler is coming in handy. This ash log was too heavy to safely skid with my wheel tractor.



Ron


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## northmanlogging

dumb truck loads are fun lol. 
with a headache rack it only encourages you to stack em over the cab so you can see the butts as yer driving down the road... 
I would only throw 2 wrappers on a load that short, you do you though, 3 would be overkill if you ask me, even without a headache rack.


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## rwoods

Thanks. Putting a log from my trailer into my tailgate this spring and the steep hill encourages me to over strap. Those logs are pretty slick as many loosen all of their bark on the ride.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

how you loading them anyway?


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## northmanlogging

also, the Self Loather isn't real good at off roading, steep ungraveled roads are problematic, up or down, hell even graveled roads can be a problem if its steep. 
That said it takes about 1/2 an hour to load, and 15 min to unload... I think it takes longer to load just because of all the BSing, or could be the piles of pick up sticks I get left.


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## rwoods

I can make a nice looking log pile 10 times as fast as it takes me to move the logs from the pile to the truck. Using a root grapple is a part of the problem.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

smashish


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## rwoods

I would say nice use of the gate post to keep your log elevated.

Ron


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## northmanlogging




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## rwoods

If I didn’t know better I would say you are qualified to join us at Blind Squirrel Falling. 

To answer your earlier question that I missed - my loader:



Ron


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## catbuster

We slipped concrete Saturday, so I had my alarm for 2:00 AM that morning. I set alarms I don’t use much up for every day so I’m set if there’s a stretch of them. I was on site for just shy of 16 hours and finally got to sleep around 11:00 PM courtesy of a couple of fire runs. 

Well… Was I upset at 2:00 AM this morning when I didn’t have to get up at any set time.


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## rwoods

*SET BACK BUT BLESSED*

As stated by Robert Burns, “The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.” 

Saturday was predicted to be a breezy day, thus unsafe for falling dead trees (and it was). In addition, my three girls and their husbands were coming home to watch the Tennessee/Georgia game at 3:30. Despite the short day, I had planned and anticipated a record day of at least three loads to the woodlot. The plan was simple and began the week before: Stage stems and leave a loaded truck and the tractor at the bottom of the hill. Arrive at daybreak. Run the first load to the woodlot. Return, buck stems, re-load. and repeat. As it turned out, matters at home absorbed an hour of daylight so the first load left later than planned. 

Ordinarily, I stage logs in piles through out the woods on this site, then a pile at a time I select which log goes where when loading the truck and strap with the rackets on the safest side, given the lack of stakes. However, the first load Saturday was made up of odd or overlooked logs loaded as I drove the truck through the woods – as shown in the picture, it was just a hodgepodge mess with a precariously placed large ash log partially sitting in a shallow valley.

First load.




Two miles down the road, I was thanking GOD for run-flats when I blew a tire. After limping my way for a mile or so to a convenience store with a large parking lot and having no spare, wrench or jack, I called for assistance. 





The woodlot has been extremely shorthanded lately so I was surprised when five men and a teenager arrived with three dump trailers and a skid steer as there was an abundance of workers at the woodlot Saturday. In short order, we had the logs unloaded, shortened and loaded in the dump trailers; the middle axle lifted and chained to the frame; and the crippled truck headed to the woodlot.

As I have posted before, I only recall my father teaching me two things about cutting wood - #1 never stand in the line of a chainsaw bar and #2 never unnecessarily walk beside a loaded log truck. Heeding #1 probably saved my life 40 years ago when a kickback sent a 35# gear-drive bow saw over my head. Not heeding #2 almost got me killed Saturday.

While getting ready to unload in the convenience store parking lot, I release the straps from the “safe” side. Then instead of just leaving the straps clipped on the other side, I decided to unclip them which required a slight downward tug on each. When I unclipped the last one, the ash decided to abandon ship. Thankfully, the last clip was nearest the cab. I stepped back as the ash rolled off the truck. Fortunately, nothing was in its path except a protective railing at the edge of the parking lot.

Looking at these two pictures, it is clear that that the load had moved and with the tilt of the truck the ash had become more dangerous than a cocked and loaded gun with a hair trigger and the safety off. I can’t honest say that I looked at the load from either angle to determine if it was safe to walk on the other side. I was relying on the fact that I observed no movement when I released the straps. I could say that it was just a dead ash trying one more time to get me, but the truth is I was not vigilant and simply blessed not to have been crushed.







We returned to my pile after lunch, bucked the stems to trailer length. Loaded and hauled them to the lot in dump trailers.

Dead red oak cut to trailer length.



With all of the unanticipated help, I was able to meet my original goal, including making it home in time for the family. Too bad Tennessee wasn’t so blessed as Georgia ate their lunch.

Be safe.

Note to self: Engage brain and leave it engaged.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

last dec blew the motor in my dump truck, took until june? to get parts and gave it back together head gasket was leaking, so i took it in fir warranty werk a month ago... picked er up this morning, blew head gasket within 7 miles


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## northmanlogging

and, just seen a deer using a cross walk, waited for the light and everything

think i need a nap


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## woodfarmer

northmanlogging said:


> last dec blew the motor in my dump truck, took until june? to get parts and gave it back together head gasket was leaking, so i took it in fir warranty werk a month ago... picked er up this morning, blew head gasket within 7 miles


No farming way!


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## northmanlogging

So I bought a creeper today, first one I've had since '05... Figure I don't have a shop, but I do have a street, so I can just park the log truck in the street and do the greesing and adjust the brakes with the creeper rather then rolling around on the wet asphalt/mud. 
Well it works great, way easier then trying to slide around and what not... 
However, at the moment my "good" knee is being a jerk and it hurts like a mofo to kneel on it, the "bad" knee has a rod sticking out of the bit I could kneel on, so IF I do kneel on it, well... it sucks like a lot. 
Anyhow, my fat arse got stuck on the creeper, trying to pick my self up off it, and the damned thing would slide around, or even just trying to roll off it and I'd roll right back under the truck, or worse towards the muddy/slushy/greasy ditch I park in...
Eventually I was able to get off the damned thing... but I imagine my neighbors were laughing pretty hard.


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## catbuster

Creepers are great, until one of us… Semi hobbled people has to get up and off of them. I have days where it’s just worth hanging around on one because my back’s going to spasm trying to get off of it. 

That said, I’ve never used one off-road before. I usually had a tarp for that use. Fun fact: They can, and will, catch fire if molten dross or weld spatter accumulates on them.


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## rwoods

Some of the joys of getting old - getting to ground level and getting back up. 

Another is stiffness in the cold. Removed the blown tire and wheel assembly from the deuce yesterday in the drizzling rain; despite a waterproof parka, I was soaked to the bone requiring a complete change of clothing. With a stiff back, I took a long nap on a heating pad instead of going back outside.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> Creepers are great, until one of us… Semi hobbled people has to get up and off of them. I have days where it’s just worth hanging around on one because my back’s going to spasm trying to get off of it.
> 
> That said, I’ve never used one off-road before. I usually had a tarp for that use. Fun fact: They can, and will, catch fire if molten dross or weld spatter accumulates on them.


Tarps not a bad Idear, I keep a big Tatimi type mat in the disService truck for that purpose, give a little more cussion for the wrenching (of the back...) That and a beach umbrella to hide from the rain and Sun, I hates working in the sun lol (don't move here)


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## catbuster

I’m not sure which I dislike more, the Sun Belt’s summer solar beatdown or the constant damp of where you live for 3/4 of the year. Oh, and the long darkness of the winters at your latitude combined with being caught behind mountains.

They both suck. Right now I’m fighting… Mud. The stuff goes everywhere. You wipe everything in your truck down one day and it’s s everywhere again if one takes five steps away. Kiss your clean cloth seats goodbye. Heaven forbid the fleet guy gets me one with vinyl. 

I mean, how does it get _here? _


That’s just under the _headrest. _Forget trying to keep an equipment cab clean. I found mud splatter on the inside of the top window of an excavator cab last week.


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## northmanlogging

in todays fun, if you squint, the power lines are on the far side of a busy hwy, after that 90 in the road are 2 more switch backs... i slid most of the way down the middle one


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## rwoods

Looks to be a nice house site. 

Keep the truck dry on the way out.

Ron


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## catbuster

Service brake works? *Check
Jake on, high, and working? *Check
Transmission doesn’t hop out of gear in low range? *Check
Can I afford to reupholster the seat? *Hopefully check
I don’t know of any truck that’s meant to be run underwater, so I hope you keep it on the slope.


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## northmanlogging

catbuster said:


> Service brake works? *Check
> Jake on, high, and working? *Check
> Transmission doesn’t hop out of gear in low range? *Check
> Can I afford to reupholster the seat? *Hopefully check
> I don’t know of any truck that’s meant to be run underwater, so I hope you keep it on the slope.


jakes work, locks the drive axles up and you slide....
engine retarder works, locks drive axles up and you slide... 
Transmission doesn't hop out of gear, which is nice
Seat already needs replaced (who we kidding, the whole damn truck needs replaced)
Service brakes... yeah those lock up trailer, and drive axles and you slide, even with light pressure
I've taken 6 loads out of there, theres probably 6 more? Not sure my ticker can handle too many more.


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## rwoods

They say you can never have too much horsepower. I say you better have a big chain.

A few Saturdays back, I topped a large storm downed red oak at the firing range. I left it on the stump since the top was just barely holding it on a sheer 6' rock ledge. 



A quick assessment told me that it was too heavy for my machines as I expected it to roll down hill and possibly off the ledge once the stump was cut. The county told me that the JD 750 would soon be fixed so I left it for another day. I could get within 80 feet +/- of it so my plan was to tie it to the 750 and then sever the root ball. Well, the 750 still isn't fixed so this past Saturday in a drizzling rain I cleared a path with my little crawler and then borrowed this little toy, a D7H:



I used a 9/16" cable choker double hooked to 3/4" synthetic winch line. Not having proper equipment, the double hook is what I used to skid two logs at once; it is a short chain with a 3/8" grab hook and a 5/16" grab hook. The first pull was a failure. The smaller hook apparently went from a grab hook to a slip hook to a no hook. Just as well as the chain was ready to break. Glad I didn't have any delusions of hooking to the 1/2" quick link.



Second attempt was successful, though it tweaked a 3/4" shackle. The stick was 57+ feet long. 18,500 to 19,500 #s of good red oak.


I used the garden rake to find my short chain. 

The 3/4" synthetic winch line lived up to its hype though under tension it shrinks to about 1/2" in diameter.

Be safe.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> They say you can never have too much horsepower. I say you better have a big chain.
> 
> A few Saturdays back, I topped a large storm downed red oak at the firing range. I left it on the stump since the top was just barely holding it on a sheer 6' rock ledge.
> View attachment 1045618
> 
> 
> A quick assessment told me that it was too heavy for my machines as I expected it to roll down hill and possibly off the ledge once the stump was cut. The county told me that the JD 750 would soon be fixed so I left it for another day. I could get within 80 feet +/- of it so my plan was to tie it to the 750 and then sever the root ball. Well, the 750 still isn't fixed so this past Saturday in a drizzling rain I cleared a path with my little crawler and then borrowed this little toy, a D7H:
> View attachment 1045619
> 
> 
> I used a 9/16" cable choker double hooked to 3/4" synthetic winch line. Not having proper equipment, the double hook is what I used to skid two logs at once; it is a short chain with a 3/8" grab hook and a 5/16" grab hook. The first pull was a failure. The smaller hook apparently went from a grab hook to a slip hook to a no hook. Just as well as the chain was ready to break. Glad I didn't have any delusions of hooking to the 1/2" quick link.
> View attachment 1045620
> 
> 
> Second attempt was successful, though it tweaked a 3/4" shackle. The stick was 57+ feet long. 18,500 to 19,500 #s of good red oak.
> View attachment 1045621
> 
> I used the garden rake to find my short chain.
> 
> The 3/4" synthetic winch line lived up to its hype though under tension it shrinks to about 1/2" in diameter.
> 
> Be safe.
> 
> Ron


the synthetic stuff has its uses, its light, easy to splice, but what it does do is stretch like a mofo, despite all the advertising wank about it... it in reality stretches far more then wire rope... I would advise against using it in a regular logging atmosphere as its also terrible with abrasion, chemicals, and is easily cut... wire rope, no F's given lol.

I have yet to tear up a 3/4 shackle... good job lol


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## rwoods

NM, I am sure you have heard of the guys who can break an anvil. It seems I have that touch. Started young - back when I was in school, I worked part time at a junk yard. One day, they put me on a Coates tire machine breaking down and removing tires. You know the bar you use to pop the bead over the rim - I broke it and busted my rear on the concrete. No one believed that a then 165# kid broke it. Sales rep told my boss that this was the first one he had ever seen break. After that they found other things for me to do.

I am careful where I use the synthetic line as it can be easily cut. It is much easier to tote and is safer on your hands than wire cable.

Ron


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## catbuster

Dyneema line is awesome, even if it does stretch. Spectra braided cables are amazing for rigging. You are right though, they need a sheath in an eye around a steel shackle.

Also, good call on the chains. 1” chain is pretty much the minimum to pull behind a tractor like that. A D7 probably will slip before it parts it, even if a modern high drive one like that 7H has a drawbar pull of somewhere between 70-75,000 pounds.

I did some calculations a while back and with a straight pull (no dynamic/shock loading) a 4-leg 1/2 grade 100 chain would pull two stacked trench boxes out of sand. That was last summer, on the job I posted some pictures of here. Well… We broke it. Several times. Chains are scary.

Matt… Like I said, a D7 will tweak a 3/4” shackle in a hurry. Burning a _lot _of fuel doing it and making a mess.


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