# Back at it, this time with 84cc Dolkita



## mtngun (Sep 22, 2011)

A 17" douglas fir. I was able to skid it to the trail where it was easy to work on.






As I posted in another thread, I finally got the 084 running great, but after a half day of milling, it crunched a piston for no obvious reason.





I need the lumber to finish my barn and I'm running out of time, so the 84cc Dolkita was pressed into service for the Alaskan mill. It's running lo-pro, of course.





22 pieces at the end of the day.


----------



## hamish (Sep 22, 2011)

Looking good Dan!

Exhaust side of piston? cant find the thread but was definately a manufacturing or foriegn matter boom.


----------



## willbarryrec (Sep 22, 2011)

*Good to see you back at it Mtngun!*

Thanks for the pics.

That is a crying shame about your 084  That piston looks rough...hows the cylinder?


----------



## mtngun (Sep 22, 2011)

084 jug was dinged at the floor of the exhaust port, but I'm hoping I can knock down the ding. No other damage to jug.

Crummy picture, but you can make out the divot at the bottom of the exhaust port.


----------



## john taliaferro (Sep 23, 2011)

Sorry bout the 84 it almost looks like it was droped. found a tail gate beat worse than mine , but you got a nice looking load of slabs thanks to the doll . I got a 76 f250 and the new tail gate is more than the truck  i think ill make one with built in vise .


----------



## BIG JAKE (Sep 23, 2011)

*Dolkita and Lo-pro*

Too bad on the 084 Mtngun. 22 slabs is a good haul any day with the csm. Speaking of the dolkita, if I wanted to run lo-pro on mine, can I buy what I need off the shelf? I been out for a while, but I did run my 64cc for the first time cutting firewood-I like the saw a lot. Been thinking of setting it up
for milling including a new top end and the HD filter. opcorn:


----------



## mtngun (Sep 23, 2011)

BIG JAKE said:


> Speaking of the dolkita, if I wanted to run lo-pro on mine, can I buy what I need off the shelf?


The nose sprocket teeth need to be thinned, which you can do with a raker file.

Some people claim to get OK results with a 3/8 rim, but I recommend a lo-pro rim. Danzco was selling them at one time.


----------



## redoakneck (Sep 23, 2011)

Man you must work very fast!!! 22 boards in one day is really humping. I am lucky to get 2 boards an hour and I work as hard as I can but I am getting faster and prolly shouldn't be so anal about getting it perfect. Also doing larger hardwood but still!!! 

How long did that take you???


Sorry about that jug, makes me want to cry:bang:

View attachment 200278


View attachment 200279


Some 27" redoak from yesterday, still working on it


----------



## mtngun (Sep 23, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> How long did that take you???


All day. 4.4 hours runtime on the Dolkita. I only had one chain, so after it got dull, the cutting was pretty slow. :tongue2:


----------



## gemniii (Sep 23, 2011)

mtngun said:


> All day. 4.4 hours runtime on the Dolkita. I only had one chain, so after it got dull, the cutting was pretty slow. :tongue2:


 
Please tell us how many square feet you cut on that one chain. That's one great pile of wood.


----------



## BIG JAKE (Sep 23, 2011)

mtngun said:


> The nose sprocket teeth need to be thinned, which you can do with a raker file.
> 
> Some people claim to get OK results with a 3/8 rim, but I recommend a lo-pro rim. Danzco was selling them at one time.


 
I'll give 'em a try-thanks


----------



## redoakneck (Sep 24, 2011)

Any tricks on sharpening the right hand cutters while on the mill? The mill frame gets in the way. Maybe one of those dremel with a stone sharpeners would work. I am slow at changing the chain (putting the bar and mill back on the saw mainly) so I try to leave the chain on the mill and sharpen that way. 


I guess I could raise the frame all the way and do it, but again more time adjusting.

Do you treat your 2x6 guide board with linseed oil??? My stuff sits outside a lot and gets rained on from time to time, yeah too lazy to lug it all back in, easier to leave it at the work site rain or shine.


----------



## mtngun (Sep 24, 2011)

gemniii said:


> Please tell us how many square feet you cut on that one chain. That's one great pile of wood.


Average 12" - 14" wide, 22 pieces, 10 foot long.



> Any tricks on sharpening the right hand cutters while on the mill? The mill frame gets in the way.


Swap chains. I decided to sacrifice on of my 36" lo-pro chains, cutting it down to 24" so now I have one spare for the DolKita.



> Do you treat your 2x6 guide board with linseed oil???


The 2x6 used for the mini-mill is treated. My alaskan guide is unistrut.


----------



## redoakneck (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks Dan,

Been looking at the the lo-pro set up and why in world don't they mak a .365 rim drive????

Thats a lot of saw hours for 1 days work, I need to increase my set-up speed. The cut time is much quicker with the 088 and I like having the 7900 handy to trim or buck as needed. I get a pretty good finish with woodland ripping chain, is the lo-pro better for finish also or just cut speed???

Also with .375 ripping chain don't you get a lot more cutter life than with lo-pro simply because the cutter is bigger??? I have never seen lo-pro in person but on my low profile .375 limbing saws the cutters are pretty small and I do not get as many sharpening cycles out of them.


Too many questions, I know, but I really have learned a ton :msp_smile::msp_smile::msp_smile:


----------



## gemniii (Sep 24, 2011)

mtngun said:


> Average 12" - 14" wide, 22 pieces, 10 foot long.


 
IMPRESSIVE!! That's about 240 sq ft on 1 chain! And about 50 sq ft /hour. That's approaching BSM output!

Too bad your 084 broke


----------



## mtngun (Sep 24, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> I get a pretty good finish with woodland ripping chain, is the lo-pro better for finish also or just cut speed???


 Speed. No difference in finish if ground the same.



> Also with .375 ripping chain don't you get a lot more cutter life than with lo-pro simply because the cutter is bigger???


 lo-pro cutters are indeed shorter so you will not get as many sharpenings. I have yet to wear out any ripping chain, but am getting close on one of my lo-pro chains. Will post pics of it at the end of this season.


----------



## brokenbudget (Sep 24, 2011)

mtngun said:


> Speed. No difference in finish if ground the same.
> 
> lo-pro cutters are indeed shorter so you will not get as many sharpenings. I have yet to wear out any ripping chain, but am getting close on one of my lo-pro chains. Will post pics of it at the end of this season.


 
have you tried using oregon 91vxl? it has a longer cutter and is a bit taller.


----------



## BIG JAKE (Sep 24, 2011)

mtngun said:


> The nose sprocket teeth need to be thinned, which you can do with a raker file.
> 
> Some people claim to get OK results with a 3/8 rim, but I recommend a lo-pro rim. Danzco was selling them at one time.



They still do. I got a reply back from Ed Danzer and They have 7 low pro sprockets from 7 pin thru 10 pin that they make in Oregon 7 spline large and Oregon 7 spline small. I'm not certain which one my dolkita will take but I'm thinking 7pin Oregon large will work. This is good news though I been wanting to try the lo-pro. I'll look it up later I'm going to bed. 
By the way, Ed said let him know if I need anything else and they may add it to production in a few months. They are 28-30 bucks a piece-not bad if it sames me some time.


----------



## thepheniox (Sep 25, 2011)

Redoakneck, I just flip
The saw over and sharpen the other side. Been awhile since I've used the Alaskan but that's how I do it. Not sure if there was a trick to it or if it is self explanatory once the saw is flipped over. If I get a chance I'll go check.


----------



## redoakneck (Sep 26, 2011)

Anyway I could get a contact # or e-mail for ed danzco???. I'm running an 8-pin 3/8 on my 088 and am going to try lo-pro and want a few lo-pro sprockets, prolly stay with an 8 pin??? 7 pin??? 10 pin:msp_tongue:

I need a standard 7 tooth (spline ) with an 8 pin rim

Yeah I can flip it but the guide is in the way when I am doing thinner boards.


----------



## redoakneck (Sep 26, 2011)

BIG JAKE said:


> They still do. I got a reply back from Ed Danzer and They have 7 low pro sprockets from 7 pin thru 10 pin that they make in Oregon 7 spline large and Oregon 7 spline small. I'm not certain which one my dolkita will take but I'm thinking 7pin Oregon large will work. This is good news though I been wanting to try the lo-pro. I'll look it up later I'm going to bed.
> By the way, Ed said let him know if I need anything else and they may add it to production in a few months. They are 28-30 bucks a piece-not bad if it sames me some time.


 
My 7900 takes a standard spline, not sure how big large is, 7/8 " I think is the I.D.


----------



## redoakneck (Sep 26, 2011)

Also, when you are talking lo-pro you mean the chain from Granberg or is there a cheaper source??? Baileys is 24 cents a link (ripping chain) and I think granberg is 46 cents per link:bang:

How much faster is the lo-pro, 20-25%???

Thanks again,

Pete


----------



## redoakneck (Sep 26, 2011)

OK, oregon large spline is the same as stihl standard which is an ID of 7/8"


----------



## srcarr52 (Sep 26, 2011)

BIG JAKE said:


> They still do. I got a reply back from Ed Danzer and They have 7 low pro sprockets from 7 pin thru 10 pin that they make in Oregon 7 spline large and Oregon 7 spline small. I'm not certain which one my dolkita will take but I'm thinking 7pin Oregon large will work. This is good news though I been wanting to try the lo-pro. I'll look it up later I'm going to bed.
> By the way, Ed said let him know if I need anything else and they may add it to production in a few months. They are 28-30 bucks a piece-not bad if it sames me some time.


 
I like mtngun cut down a .404 sprocket on the lathe. You have to have some really good carbide to do it but it's holding up fine.


----------



## mtngun (Sep 26, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> Also, when you are talking lo-pro you mean the chain from Granberg or is there a cheaper source??
> How much faster is the lo-pro, 20-25%???
> 
> Thanks again,
> ...


I've been using Woodland Pro chain.

15% - 25% faster than 3/8.


----------



## redoakneck (Sep 26, 2011)

Mtgun, since the pitch is .365, not .375, on 72 link .375 how many links for .365??? If the math is correct looks like I should add 1 link??

I may set this chain up on my mini mill first since all my long milling bars are .063 gauge... I have 4 bars 36" or larger and they are all .063, dang, I see what you mean by the lo-pro being a bit fiesty to set-up:tongue2::tongue2::msp_w00t:


----------



## srcarr52 (Sep 26, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> Mtgun, since the pitch is .365, not .375, on 72 link .375 how many links for .365??? If the math is correct looks like I should add 1 link??
> 
> I may set this chain up on my mini mill first since all my long milling bars are .063 gauge... I have 4 bars 36" or larger and they are all .063, dang, I see what you mean by the lo-pro being a bit fiesty to set-up:tongue2::tongue2::msp_w00t:


 
3/8 low-pro is still 0.375" pitch. It will take the same amount of links as a normal 3/8's chain. The difference is the height of the link body from it's surface that it would ride on the bar to the pin. The low-pro chain has a much shorter body so the drive sprocket diameter has to be larger to make up the difference. Also on most sprocket nose bars the tips are too wide to properly spear and support the low-pro chain. So they have to be narrowed to allow the tip of the sprocket to go into the gap between the pins in the chain so the chain driver will sink in and be properly supported by the cradle faces of the sprocket tip. 

Low-pro only comes in 0.050 gauge which limits your bar size to 32" for Oregon/Husky bars and 36" for Stihl ES bars. You can also get Cannon to make you a bar as long as you want in 0.050.


----------



## redoakneck (Sep 26, 2011)

brokenbudget said:


> have you tried using oregon 91vxl? it has a longer cutter and is a bit taller.


 

I looked at this chain and it may work but would need to be ground so the cutters are 10 degrees or less. Grinding these cutters may be easier than changing the whole shebang to .365 pitch. 


Have you milled with this chain???


----------



## srcarr52 (Sep 26, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> I looked at this chain and it may work but would need to be ground so the cutters are 10 degrees or less. Grinding these cutters may be easier than changing the whole shebang to .365 pitch.
> 
> 
> Have you milled with this chain???


 
I think 91vxl is still a 3/8 low-pro chain. They just have a slightly taller and longer cutter and the raker is moved forward on the chassis to compensate.


----------



## redoakneck (Sep 28, 2011)

So mill down a .404 to a snug diameter for the lo-pro, makes sense and costs a lot less.

Any risk of snapping lo-pro with 28" hardwood and an 088 pulling hard???


----------



## hamish (Sep 28, 2011)

91 vxl is just a version of 91vx with a longer cutter, 3/8" low pro that has fewer of the anti-kick back features found on most of the other 91 series saw chain. There are alot of different chains you may or may not find at your loacal dealer or online. 91P is a good example.

What was the root of the failure on the Dolkita Dan?


----------



## mtngun (Sep 28, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> Any risk of snapping lo-pro with 28" hardwood and an 088 pulling hard???


No one has ever tried lo-pro on a 120cc saw. I believe it would work (up to 36"), but there are no 0.050" bars available for the large Stihl mount, unless you want to have a bar custom made. 

Hamish, the Dolkita had refused to start earlier this year. It seemed like the spark was weak and the plug would get wet and not even pop. After I took a second look at it, I found the L screw 3 turns out, which probably wasn't helping. Set it back to 1 1/4 turn and got it to run, though it continues to be a royal pain to start. If I'm lucky, I can get it on the 3rd pull. Almost never on first pull, and lots of times 6 - 10 pulls required.


----------



## hamish (Sep 28, 2011)

Just a quick question on the Dolkita, when it starts can you walk away and have it idle till you come back? Once started can you let it idle on its side till you come back? Sounds like its getting too much fuel and its pooling in the base. Had a 257 with similar symptoms, hard as hell to start but worked like a champ once started, nothing more than a mild seal leak. At your elevation what is the humidity levels like (sorry never been to your neck of the woods)?


----------



## mtngun (Sep 28, 2011)

hamish said:


> Just a quick question on the Dolkita, when it starts can you walk away and have it idle till you come back?


Idle is not the best, but it will idle indefinitely. 

Humidity 10% - 15% until the fall rains begin.


----------



## brokenbudget (Oct 4, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> I looked at this chain and it may work but would need to be ground so the cutters are 10 degrees or less. Grinding these cutters may be easier than changing the whole shebang to .365 pitch.
> 
> 
> Have you milled with this chain???


 
nope haven't tried it yet. was thinking of it... just figured i'd ask before throwing down about 60 bucks for some


----------



## cheeves (Oct 6, 2011)

mtngun said:


> 084 jug was dinged at the floor of the exhaust port, but I'm hoping I can knock down the ding. No other damage to jug.
> 
> Crummy picture, but you can make out the divot at the bottom of the exhaust port.


 
Now I know why nmurph recommended the Mahle P/C.


----------



## mtngun (Oct 7, 2011)

cheeves said:


> Now I know why nmurph recommended the Mahle P/C.


 The 084 we were referring to is a Stihl.

The 84cc Dolkita jug has issues of its own.


----------



## BIG JAKE (Oct 9, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> Anyway I could get a contact # or e-mail for ed danzco???. I'm running an 8-pin 3/8 on my 088 and am going to try lo-pro and want a few lo-pro sprockets, prolly stay with an 8 pin??? 7 pin??? 10 pin:msp_tongue:
> 
> I need a standard 7 tooth (spline ) with an 8 pin rim
> 
> Yeah I can flip it but the guide is in the way when I am doing thinner boards.



You can contact Ed at : [email protected]


----------



## redoakneck (Oct 12, 2011)

Mntgun, what kind of 36" 050 gauge bar are you running??? They are hard to find, is that bar for your stihl 084 with a large mount???


I am going to order an 8 and 9 pin stihl large (or oregon standard) rim that will fit on either my 7900 or my 088, just may use the 7900 because the large mount stihl in 050 is expensive.


I wish I had a machine shop!!! I also thought of using a rail squeezer to make one of my long stihl bars 050, but that probably is not a good idea.


----------



## srcarr52 (Oct 12, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> Mntgun, what kind of 36" 050 gauge bar are you running??? They are hard to find, is that bar for your stihl 084 with a large mount???
> 
> 
> I am going to order an 8 and 9 pin stihl large (or oregon standard) rim that will fit on either my 7900 or my 088, just may use the 7900 because the large mount stihl in 050 is expensive.
> ...


 
I was wondering the same thing. I recently acquired an Olympyk 999f that I would like to put on the mill but I would like to keep it universal so that means I need a big mount Stihl bar in 0.050 gauge and I'd like to make it a 36". Then I could just run a spacer for the Husky. 

I know Cannon will make a 36" in 0.050 for the Stihl large mount according to their website. But I'm not ready to spend that kind of cash. Does Stihl make an ES bar in the 36" 0.050 for the large mount?

Squeezing the rails down to a smaller size will not work. Maybe for crosscutting but on a mill your cut quality would suffer greatly. 

I ran my 32" low-pro setup this weekend on a cedar log with the 394 and it overpowered the chain. I was having to push really hard or run partial throttle to keep the saw from over-reving. I have a 5/50/0 grind with file-o-plate rakers. So Mntgun, do I go with more hook or take down the rakers?


----------



## mtngun (Oct 12, 2011)

srcarr52 said:


> I know Cannon will make a 36" in 0.050 for the Stihl large mount according to their website. But I'm not ready to spend that kind of cash. Does Stihl make an ES bar in the 36" 0.050 for the large mount?


I've never run across a 0.050" bar for the 120cc Stihls. Bear in mind that the bar needs to be fairly thin to work with low pro. I've heard Cannon bars are thicker than normal ? The bars I use with lo-pro are about 0.185" thick.




> I ran my 32" low-pro setup this weekend on a cedar log with the 394 and it overpowered the chain. I was having to push really hard or run partial throttle to keep the saw from over-reving. I have a 5/50/0 grind with file-o-plate rakers. So Mntgun, do I go with more hook or take down the rakers?


Sounds like it. FOP is only 5 - 6 degrees, I rarely run less than 6.5 degrees, seems to need more as the chain wears.

I am running 7 pins on all my saws. Tried an 8, but it seemed to make the engine lug. Of course, that too, depends on the rakers.


----------



## srcarr52 (Oct 12, 2011)

mtngun said:


> I've never run across a 0.050" bar for the 120cc Stihls. Bear in mind that the bar needs to be fairly thin to work with low pro. I've heard Cannon bars are thicker than normal ? The bars I use with lo-pro are about 0.185" thick.



I'll have a few Cannon bars I'll have to take some measurements.




> Sounds like it. FOP is only 5 - 6 degrees, I rarely run less than 6.5 degrees, seems to need more as the chain wears.


 
How do you measure raker degree? Did you make a new gauge?



> I am running 7 pins on all my saws. Tried an 8, but it seemed to make the engine lug. Of course, that too, depends on the rakers.



I was running an 8 pin without issue on the 394, the 288 would have a hard time in larger wood.


----------



## mtngun (Oct 12, 2011)

srcarr52 said:


> How do you measure raker degree? Did you make a new gauge?


DAF, though mostly I do it by trial and error, and merely use the DAF to measure it afterwards.


----------



## BobL (Oct 13, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> I also thought of using a rail squeezer to make one of my long stihl bars 050, but that probably is not a good idea.


 
Don't do it. A bar rail closer cannot compress the region of the groove near the bottom of the groove which then still allows the chain to tilt over. The chain will then cut crooked and jam the bar. Any attempt to reopen the bar groove is likely to snap off pieces off an ruin the bar.


----------



## john taliaferro (Oct 14, 2011)

srcarr52 , Dans milling PINE he's gonna be able to pull a bit more raker than us in mid west sawing white oak . So get your daf { grizzles 27.00 } and start by setting all the cutters to 5 degrees . Its amazing how much smoother chain runs when their all doing the same work , go easey on the rakers and some where before 6 degrees or so it will start to cut oak


----------



## srcarr52 (Oct 14, 2011)

john taliaferro said:


> srcarr52 , Dans milling PINE he's gonna be able to pull a bit more raker than us in mid west sawing white oak . So get your daf { grizzles 27.00 } and start by setting all the cutters to 5 degrees . Its amazing how much smoother chain runs when their all doing the same work , go easey on the rakers and some where before 6 degrees or so it will start to cut oak


 
I already use a file-o-plate to set one raker and then I usually setup the grinder to just hit it and do all the rest, so they should be spot on. My chains cut pretty smoothly already. 

I'll probably modify a file-o-plate by cutting a little out of the part that contacts the chain so I can get a little more angle... but not too much.


----------



## mtngun (Oct 14, 2011)

john taliaferro said:


> Dans milling PINE he's gonna be able to pull a bit more raker than us in mid west sawing white oak . So get your daf { grizzles 27.00 } and start by setting all the cutters to 5 degrees . Its amazing how much smoother chain runs when their all doing the same work , go easey on the rakers and some where before 6 degrees or so it will start to cut oak


John, I mill douglas fir. I have no other species to compare it to, but I've heard sawyers who mill both doug and oak say that oak is easier to mill, even though oak is harder.

If you take too much off the rakers, the chain will be VERY grabby and will be more apt to leave a washboard finish, but even so, once you adapt your milling style to the grabby chain, it cuts well enough.


----------



## redoakneck (Oct 14, 2011)

BobL said:


> Don't do it. A bar rail closer cannot compress the region of the groove near the bottom of the groove which then still allows the chain to tilt over. The chain will then cut crooked and jam the bar. Any attempt to reopen the bar groove is likely to snap off pieces off an ruin the bar.


 


Thanks Bob, 


The directions on the rail closer said do not over squeeze!!! I was wondering how you could open up a rail a little if you went too far but sounds like deciding not to jump off a cliff after you already jumped .

Was thinking of gettind a few strips of metal in 050 and 063 to put in the rail groove so I don't over close them. Would the closer still work??

Pete


----------



## john taliaferro (Oct 14, 2011)

Huh ,Douglas fir i never have milled it . Oak does clear the chips better than the bit of pine i have milled. Is Douglas fir similar to pine ? 
srcarr 52 Your file o plate is for cross cutting ,your gonna need a touch more for ripping


----------



## redoakneck (Oct 15, 2011)

Oak does mill very nicely, like walnut. Ash is a little harder to me. Did a smaller red cedar which is like pine and was very soft. The ash I milled was dead so that be why it seemed harder. Still trying to find that killer cherry tree!!!


----------

