# building a 3 point log splitter



## rockymountain home (Sep 5, 2014)

I am building a log splitter to run off my kubota 26 horse diesel, I am not interested in comments about self propelled or tractor run units, I have read them all. I figure I already have the tractor so why not put it to use for a splitter too. I run a back hoe, a brush hog and a blade off the rear along with the front loader. I don't too much with the tractor in the months of September and October when I am stock piling wood for winter, so it just makes sense to utilize the tractor and I can save a lot of money on the build by using the tractor hydraulics. My question is what is the best size ram to use without going over board. and should I use the engine run pump off the tractor which I believe is around 6 gallons per minute., or run off the rear pto which has 550 rpm or 750 rpm and has the pump which runs the back hoe. I am open to all suggestions on the 3 point set up,


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## Marshy (Sep 5, 2014)

Others will chime in with more knowledge than I but I believe typical splitter use something like 12-16 gpm. Do you know what the gpm rating is for the pto pump that you use for your hoe?


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## DHT (Sep 5, 2014)

Maybe we can save you some time and money....

http://dirtyhandtools.com/3-Point Hitch Log Splitter Page.html

Ours is a 4" cylinder. If your tractor can generate 3500 psi it is equivalent to 22 tons of force.


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## rockymountain home (Sep 5, 2014)

I do not know what the gpm is on the pto pump. all I know is it has about a 5 gallon capacity tank. and its a kubota 4572 hoe. it has a 6' digging depth. cannot seem to find any # on pump or any specs on it.


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## Sawyer Rob (Sep 5, 2014)

I can tell you that the flow at the remotes of your tractor is pretty low, and that means the splitter will be pretty slow, IF you use a cylinder that's big enough to make decent power for splitting.

SR


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## Knobby57 (Sep 5, 2014)

It seams to me a pto driven pump would be the way go. You have a lot more options and not stuck working around I low gpm from the tractors OBH .Get a pump that will have the proper output at lower rpm and save gobs on fuel . And crank up the rpm's for the rather stubborn stuff . I'm thinking the cycle time would only be worthwhile at WOT on the on board hydraulics but still be very slow.Those little diesels have a lot of torque and don't really need the rpm like a gas job . Your on board hydraulics Will make lots of pressure but not a lot of flow. It would split anything but would be very slow. I'm thinking a 5 inch cylender and a 21 gpm pump on the pto you would have plenty of power and speed . Now you got me thinking a 10 -15 second cycle time would be really nice . I'm sure there are guys on here that can crunch the numbers better . I bought a harbor freight 8 gallon sand blaster and used that as my hydraulic tank . I welded a return bung on the side of the tank for my return and another on the bottom for the feed. There is already a 3/8 bung on the top for a vent . I have no baffle but i don't get any air bubbles in the fluid. (Tsc wanted 150 for a 5 gallon tank with no baffle ) I spent 30$ and a hour to build my tank. 


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## UpOnTheHill (Sep 6, 2014)

Use your hoe pump on the pto. It will have much higher flow but I'm not sure about pressure. My 32 hp kubota internal pump is rated about 7 or 8 gpm and I used it for a little while to power my splitter while I was replacing the gasoline engine and pump (on the splitter). It was usable but slow. A 3 pt pump running a hoe should be rated at a higher flow.


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## blades (Sep 6, 2014)

Nothing wrong with the 3 point build Idea. putting a ton of time on the tractor eng. and using the closed hydro circuit- yuck, the back hoe pump isn't much better as a large flow isn't needed there either. Neither of these have much in the way of a tank for cooling purposes Splitters are made with 2 stage pumps bottom end is 11 gpm high flow , shifts to around 2-3gpm for high pressure low flow for the hard to split pieces- 90% of the time you are in the high flow low pressure area around 900 psi. these are open circuit systems Tractor system tops off at around 2500psi on a single stage pump at apx 2200 rpm likely not much more than 5gpm for your unit. 540 rpm at the pto is again around 2200 rpm on eng. Haven't seen a pto direct mount pump that is 2 stage. Ok now Build the splitter 5-6hp eng -11 gpm pump 2 stage, 8hp you can up to a apx16gpm flow, Speed is how fast you can fill and empty cylinder common cylinders are all 1/2" apx ports. 3/4" ports are available -cost more, splitter valve can be had with the 3/4" ports as well just a couple bucks more than the 1/2" port version. 
But I am rambling. Think about it this way a stand alone splitter towed by tractor allows use of the tractor bucket or forks to bring rounds to splitter saving your back to try and lift those 30" ones. trying to maneuver a tractor to get a 3 point next to or if an inverted style over the top of a large round is time consuming and a pain in the neck looking over your shoulder trying to line it up. I use a chain and a choker off the bucket for large rounds to pick them up and set them on the splitter. I set the bucket next to the splitter to catch the off side split - don't have to pick back up off ground that way as my table area is small. As I split to size I can toss the splits back into the bucket if need be. Just my way of doing it - 8 cords and counting since Aug 10th and counting - just me no extra hands.


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## Sawyer Rob (Sep 6, 2014)

Keep in mind, what ever the pump on a tractor is rated at, you won't get near that much to the remotes. You have loss' in between those two points...

I see no reason to NOT use a tractor to power a splitter, so what if you put hours on the tractor. Very FEW home owners will EVER put enough hours on a tractor to even begin to wear it out!

I powered my splitter with the remotes off my tractor, until I bought this TW3HD,







I've been using it for a while now and I'm glad I didn't go cheapo, and bought this splitter, even though it did cost me more money.

SR


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## rockymountain home (Sep 6, 2014)

wow, a lot of good information, I guess the only way to go is to try off either pumps, and see the results, For one thing the wood in these parts is not really that hard, mostly aspen and pine, and spruce average 12 to 24" range and some oak that's so small it doesn't even need split. Its the knots that usually struggles the splitters a little. As for cycle time I guess ones opinion on slow may differ from one to the other, but 90% of the time this wood splits with less than a half of stroke with the cylinder. I was wondering about going with a 3.5" bore ram with about a 20" stroke, maybe speed up the cycle time a little and loose a little power at the same time. That was kind of my original question Do I really need a 4 or 5 inch ram.


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## rwoods (Sep 6, 2014)

rockymountain home said:


> I do not know what the gpm is on the pto pump. all I know is it has about a 5 gallon capacity tank. and its a kubota 4572 hoe. it has a 6' digging depth. cannot seem to find any # on pump or any specs on it.



I found this information on a B4672A backhoe pump:




From the pump diagram I am guessing a 1 to 1 gear ratio - but I am only guessing. If 1 to 1 then a little math reveals - 2.05 cu. in. times 550 rpm = 1127.5 cu. in per minute. 1127.5 / 231 = 4.88 gallons per minute. Ron


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## blades (Sep 6, 2014)

3" will work fine for your fuel source. Plenty of commercial made splitters over the years with 3"- 3.5" rams. Take a saw and pre cut the crotches and such if they give ya trouble or slice em up with the saw. Most of the advertising specs are over inflated anyway.


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## muddstopper (Sep 6, 2014)

rwoods said:


> I found this information on a B4672A backhoe pump:
> 
> View attachment 367013
> 
> ...


 You should be able to speed up this pump to increase flow rate. You mentioned that your tractor has a 550 and 750 rpm pto speed. If you used your current pump and ran it thru a 2:1 gear box at 750rpm input speed, you should be able to pump around 13gpm at 2750psi, and be close to the max hp rating of your tractor.. Using a 4x2x24 in cyl, you would have about 17tons of splitting force and a cycle time of around 10sec. If you want faster cycle times you could go with a 3.5 bore cylinder, but you would lose a little splitting force.


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## CRThomas (Sep 12, 2014)

rockymountain home said:


> I do not know what the gpm is on the pto pump. all I know is it has about a 5 gallon capacity tank. and its a kubota 4572 hoe. it has a 6' digging depth. cannot seem to find any # on pump or any specs on it.


 Most low HP tractor's pump do not do a very good job My tractor is a 30 HP and it wouldn't run a spliter to be worth while so I bought a Princes pto pump it splits every thing on idle except knots. very pleased with my set up the splitter that I use on the tractor most of the time is a 20 ton I have a 30 ton but I haven't used in in a year. I have a electric splitter I build my self it has a three stage pump and a 5 hp motor it is in my shop which is central heat and A/C. I only split my chucks down to what I can handle with the tractor then move them inside if it real hot or cold. My kiln is also in my shop so and the kiln is NG i can discharge the heat in or out of the shop. My kilm will hold about a cord but I only do a rank at a time. my kiln will dry ash down to 14 to 15 per cent in 24 hours. A rank of wood will make me about a 100 bundles a day. Later


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## UpOnTheHill (Sep 12, 2014)

Rank?a


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## 066blaster (Sep 15, 2014)

I have seen used 3 point splitters pretty cheap on cl $350 in working order.


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## cantoo (Sep 15, 2014)

I was at an auction sale on Saturday. Used 3 point hitch Smyth vertical splitter went for $700 and a brand new in the crate 25 ton speeco went for $1620 before taxes, new price with warranty on sale is around $1299 for that unit. Auction fever, I went home with some grass seed and a box of maps.


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## UpOnTheHill (Sep 16, 2014)

cantoo said:


> Auction fever, I went home with some grass seed and a box of maps.


You're the smart one. $1620 for a speeco? Wow


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## cantoo (Sep 16, 2014)

The worse part was there were lots of people bidding. The sales flyers all came out on Thursday with the sale prices. Where the heck are these guys when I'm selling crap?


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## timbrjackrussel (Sep 17, 2014)

cantoo said:


> The worse part was there were lots of people bidding. The sales flyers all came out on Thursday with the sale prices. Where the heck are these guys when I'm selling crap?


Have an auction with free drinks!


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## rockymountain home (Sep 19, 2014)

muddstopper said:


> You should be able to speed up this pump to increase flow rate. You mentioned that your tractor has a 550 and 750 rpm pto speed. If you used your current pump and ran it thru a 2:1 gear box at 750rpm input speed, you should be able to pump around 13gpm at 2750psi, and be close to the max hp rating of your tractor.. Using a 4x2x24 in cyl, you would have about 17tons of splitting force and a cycle time of around 10sec. If you want faster cycle times you could go with a 3.5 bore cylinder, but you would lose a little splitting force.


where can I get a 2;1 gear box, is this something I can run on my currant pto pump or do I have to go with a complete unit like a prince pump


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## Sawyer Rob (Sep 19, 2014)

Just a note: going through a gearbox to speed the pump up, it's going to require a more HP to run the pump.

So, what ever HP it now takes to run that pump, it's going to take quite a bit more after going through a gear box to speed it up.

Same thing if you use the faster 750 rpm speed on your pto. It takes more PTO HP to run your pto at 750. Not a problem if you start out with enough in the first place, but on a smaller tractor it can leave you short.

You say your tractor is 26hp, (what model is it?) I assume that's 26 ENGINE HP, not PTO HP AND your HP rating will be at 54o rpm's, NOT 750 rpm's... 750 PTO HP will be less than 540 HP...

SR


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## rockymountain home (Sep 19, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Just a note: going through a gearbox to speed the pump up, it's going to require a more HP to run the pump.
> 
> So, what ever HP it now takes to run that pump, it's going to take quite a bit more after going through a gear box to speed it up.
> 
> ...


I believe my pto horsepower is around 18, but it runs my back hoe at just above idle to half throttle with no problem, even digging in tough soil


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## CRThomas (Sep 19, 2014)

Call Doug at Ram Splitter he tell you what you need


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## CRThomas (Sep 19, 2014)

My 30 up tractor power take off is about 24 PTO up look in your book it has the PTO up in there


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## Sawyer Rob (Sep 19, 2014)

rockymountain home said:


> I believe my pto horsepower is around 18, but it runs my back hoe at just above idle to half throttle with no problem, even digging in tough soil



18 hp at 540 rpm's sounds about right. (it will be less on your 750 rpm speed) Sure it runs your hoe, it will run a splitter too, it's just about how fast and with what size cylinder... A larger pump won't give you more power, it WILL give you more speed, also the kind of pump matters too...

The reason most splitters run well with a smaller motor HP is, they are using 2 speed pumps on them. I bet the pump on your hoe is a 1 speed pump, nothing wrong with that, you just need enough HP to run it to have a lot of power on a splitter.

My 3 point splitter has a 1 speed 20 gpm PTO pump on it, it requires 20 PTO hp to get full power out of the pump... AND it does have a LOT of power and plenty of speed.

SR


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## rockymountain home (Sep 19, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> 18 hp at 540 rpm's sounds about right. (it will be less on your 750 rpm speed) Sure it runs your hoe, it will run a splitter too, it's just about how fast and with what size cylinder... A larger pump won't give you more power, it WILL give you more speed, also the kind of pump matters too...
> 
> The reason most splitters run well with a smaller motor HP is, they are using 2 speed pumps on them. I bet the pump on your hoe is a 1 speed pump, nothing wrong with that, you just need enough HP to run it to have a lot of power on a splitter.
> 
> ...


my pto pump is the same specs as the one posted earlier in this thread, its a 1;1 ration 2.05 cu. in. and the advertized rating is 18 hp at the pto.


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