# Man Dies, Napa CALIF.-Saturday, May 15, 2004



## Frans (May 17, 2004)

*Man Dies, Napa CALIF.*

Tree trimmer dies in freak accident
Saturday, May 15, 2004

By MARSHA DORGAN
Register Staff Writer

A tree-trimmer working on a downtown fir tree died Friday afternoon when he was pinned by a falling branch.

The name of the 39-year-old male victim has not been released pending notification of his family.

The victim and his co-workers were cutting branches off two fir trees on a Third Street lot between Seymour Avenue and California Boulevard. The man was tethered about 60 feet above ground and was using a chain saw to remove branches from the tree trunk, Napa Fire Capt. Doug Bridewell said.

After the victim sawed a large branch loose, the branch swung around and pinned the victim between the branch and tree trunk.

"I had just got home and looked out through my backyard and saw the branch just at the minute it hit and pinned the guy," said Bill Logan, who lives behind the lot. "He cut it at an angle, causing it to swing around and pin him at his back and shoulders. He moved for a few minutes, yelling in pain and crying out for help. Then he was still."

Logan said when he arrived at the scene, he saw a co-worker attempting to rescue the victim.

"The guy doesn't speak English. There was someone here that was interpreting for him. The guy tied a chain saw around him and climbed up the tree. He tried to cut the branch off that was pinning his friend, but the saw wouldn't cut through it," Logan said. "That guy did his best to help his friend."

The accident happened around 3 p.m. Emergency crews pronounced the man dead at 3:56 p.m.

The tragedy turned from a rescue to a recovery mission.

The victim's co-workers told fire officials that his crew was just getting started in the tree-trimming business and had been hired by the property owner to cut down the trees.

The names of the co-workers were not available Friday.

A city fire ladder truck was on scene as firefighters and paramedics worked to free the victim from his tree-top perch.

The American Canyon Urban Search and Rescue Team and the Napa County Fire Technical Team were called in to help with the recovery.

Napa City Firefighters/Paramedics Dave Martignoni and Joe Valenzuela, perched at the top of the out-stretched fire ladder, used a chain saw to cut the victim free and bring him down. His body was removed from the ladder and placed on a tarp on the ground and covered with a yellow blanket.

Napa police will be conducting an investigation into the accident and the California Occupation Health and Safety Administration will be notified, police Cmdr. Andy Lewis said.


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## Guy Meilleur (May 17, 2004)

*Re: Man Dies, Napa CALIF.*



> _ his crew was just getting started in the tree-trimming business and had been hired by the property owner to cut down the trees.
> [/B]_


_Sad tale; I've had concerns about getting pinched many times and have been lightly squished a few times but enough to get crushed to death? Yikes?

More regs for CA, here they come.

Green treecudders working for a priceshopping treehater; would it serve the landowner right if the victim's family came after him for damages? I hope they get a real nasty lawyer and go for it._


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## Frans (May 17, 2004)

*bad for us all*

Green treecudders working for a priceshopping treehater; would it serve the landowner right if the victim's family came after him for damages? I hope they get a real nasty lawyer and go for it.
Guy, I hope the cops go after the homeowner for hiring an unlicensed contractor.
According to CA law you must have a contractors lic. in order to contract for any job over (I think) $300.00.
Prehaps Napa County will sue the Homeowner for the cost of dealing with this.
This kinda thing really messes it up for the rest of us.
Did you notice what the Homeowner said?
His friend "tied a saw around his waist" (and climbed up to help his friend) but could'nt cut the branch. 
what is that but some guy without any gear or training?!
I know the guy died but this is so plainly just unskilled, unprofessional workers without a clue as to what they are doing.
In addition the news article is titled "Man dies in freak accident"
A freak accident is when on a sunny day lightning strikes a climber, Not some hack dieing from incompetance.
There has to be some way that this kind of tragedy does not screw up Professional, trained companies insurance rates.
One would hope OSHA sees the difference...
Frans


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## TheTreeSpyder (May 17, 2004)

Snarf Man;

We kinda got a thing here about not puting things that would make it rough on a chance friend etc. of a deceased to catch even more anguish in this place



> _Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder _
> *Ya gotta know i agree; as i try to hold back a shriek about not being rude by putting down buried peoples..... Guess there even with the house (Green Mile) for the risks they've taken; gambles they've lost; more so than others. No sense kicking'em; this is hard work, they done it till the end; their debt is paid in full. Even giving us their lessons in doing so.
> 
> :angel: *




Cuz ya know, ya never know;

Fact is i think someone here's brother from a line of loggers died pinned helplessly in a tree-Tim Gardner; though years ago.........


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## NeTree (May 17, 2004)

PC be ????ed...

This is the kind of stupidity that's ruining the industry, and costing ALL of us alot of money and credibility every year.

AGAIN... another fatality that could have EASILY been avoided.


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## Newfie (May 18, 2004)

*"We kinda got a thing here about not puting things that would make it rough on a chance friend etc"* 


Is this special forum a roll call of the dead and maimed or a place to discuss the incident and how to avoid making similar mistakes?


Sue? For what? Where does the responsibility of the victim come into play in this situation? He was the one that knew he was untrained and unqualified, how does that become someone else's fault?


Hopefully a terrible tragedy that could be avoided in the future.


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## TheTreeSpyder (May 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *Due to the gravity of this subject, we would like to ask everyone to maintain a more professional attitude in this forum.
> 
> Keep the comentary constructive and to the point. On the other forums we do allow a lot more leeway in practice then the Guidelines require, but the nature of this forum compells me to ask for greater restraint.
> ...





> _Originally posted by Tim Walsh _
> *I concur with John.
> 
> This is an incredibly sensitive topic. Please treat others like you would like to be treated.
> ...





> _Originally posted by treeman82 _
> *Tim, I had overheard a very similar story to what you are describing. Somebody a few years back was killed in a chipper accident. One of the people on his crew left the company and went to work elsewhere. First day on the job his crew went to a commercial location and turned on the chipper. Apparently the father of the man who was killed worked in that building and could not deal with the sound of the chipper going. *


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## NeTree (May 18, 2004)

Sued on what grounds?


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## NeTree (May 18, 2004)

Suppose he completely misrepresented himself to the homeowner?

We don't know the whole story yet... only that he was too green to be doing it.


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## blue (May 18, 2004)

can someone please explain to me how the home owner could be held responsibile for this guys's death.it seem's like the good 'ol US blame game to me.ihate to thik how much insurance is in the US or how many policies you may need to hold(still probablly cheaper than in th UK though)


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## TheTreeSpyder (May 18, 2004)

Because it sells more insurance, and they write the laws?

The new math?


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## Tim Gardner (May 18, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder _
> *
> 
> 
> ...



I am from a long line of Tree Climbers. Not loggers.


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## Nathan Wreyford (May 21, 2004)

*Re: bad for us all*



> _Originally posted by Frans _
> *
> I know the guy died but this is so plainly just unskilled, unprofessional workers without a clue as to what they are doing.
> 
> ...



This forum is full of those. Maybe 1 or 2 that are actual Arboricultural Injuries and Fatalities. The trash needs to be hauled out here.

As far as insurance, good luck. Here you have to have certain Certifications and medical exams to get insurance as a climber. Whole other set to climb with a saw. You can't get insurance without it. It is by far cheaper than in the states.

There isn't the same standard in the US. The ISA cert is great, but it has no skills test or basic physical requirements. So what you have is self professed professionals with little (certification or license wise) to differentiate them from the hacks in the eyes of the public or insurance companies.

Truly a sad accident. Horrible way to go.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 21, 2004)

I don't think what Frans posted was over the top, there was an element of thoughtfull discussion in his post.

If we are just going to euligize the dead, then the forum is worth only a little more then if we allow people to riddicule them.

This type of story belongs here because it is a fatality in a for hire sitution. It is something that can be used to educate our members and, one would hope, the general public. 

The more often that get posted, the more likely the forum will be noticed.

I would like to see more informative thread titles, so i don't have to come in once a week and edit them


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## TheTreeSpyder (May 22, 2004)

Otay, point taken; it prolly just didn't sound as good as when ye sad it anyway! 

A tragedy either way. But then stands in expansive example of what not to do and why, to have and give. i think that if we close off the borders to those lessons and reminders, just because another groups man payed for them; we lose, and those that we reflect these current events on lose too.

A tensioned line snapping someone in half can happen to a 4 wheeler or a tree man. The 4 wheeler pays, his family pays; wee learn.

A high voltage fried hand, from points unkown; still can make a life saving impact occasionally, even years later. Perhaps even more of the publics perception of us and why. In high school i mighta climbed up to try to save that man in Frans's story myself if just passing by.

i don't think it is the specific work fitting a recognizable categroy, but functional examples and reminders about where you or your buddy, don't want to be caught dead. Kinda like educational leverage, more learning from less of our output.

i think you been slacking around here 'bout more than a weak, and shouldn't complain about having to change a lil'title!


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 22, 2004)

Well it is a 3 hour round trip from work to my computer


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## Stumper (May 22, 2004)

I'm sorry the man is dead. It does sound as if there were some compentency problems. You guys scare me with this sue the homeowner nonsense. No wonder some little ol' ladies are afraid to hire me without workmans comp. Yes I have a half million dolllars liability coverage. And I have health insurance. And I have an accident compensation policy. And I KNOW that the customers risk exposure is ZERO because, whether our inane justice system allows it or not, I would NEVER sue someone else for my own mistakes....But they are scared that some nincompoop will hurt himself and then blame them. What on earth are you guys thinking?


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## NeTree (May 22, 2004)

In order to sue, you have to have a legal basis.

I still haven't heard it.


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## Stumper (May 22, 2004)

Agreed Eric but what worries me is that some of our number would even look for a legal basis to sue! If I'm up in the tree and Harry Homeowner comes out and starts sawing a notch in it and I hurt myself bailing out I might sue.-Probably not-('d be more concerned about the legal consequences of shoving a chainsaw up his rectum)-but you never know how it might all play out. If I get hurt in the course of doing a job why should I even think of blaming the person who hired me?????


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## Dadatwins (May 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *In order to sue, you have to have a legal basis.
> 
> *


Sad part is lawyers and insurance biz does not think like that, Homeowner insurance will likely make out of court settlement just to make problem go away if Victims family does pursue it. Does not cost insurance company money thay just raises all rates to compensate. I believe homeowner does have a responsibility to check insrance and liability before letting anyone work on their property. Wonder if NAA or ISA ever thought about having having contractor get a release from liability from homeowner. At least if someone screws up homeowner ( all homeowners) would not have to pay out to contractors family. Sad for victim and family, but this sounds like another avoidable accident that a lot of us will pay for.


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## NeTree (May 22, 2004)

Yes, well that's the biggest problem today isn't it?

Lack of personal responsibility?

Murder 19 people, hey my mom beat me.

Rear-end a carload of kids, hey I was on drugs.

Smoke like a chimkney for forty years & get cancer, it's the tobacco company's fault.

Get mad and shoot yer ole lady, hey it's Smith n Wesson's fault.

Too focking stupid to use a cupholder & get your twat fried, hey the hot coffee I ordered was too hot.


Gimme a friggin' break.


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## Dadatwins (May 22, 2004)

Did you hear about the busload of lawyers that accidently drove over a cliff?

Probably not, since nobody cares!


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## xander9727 (May 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Stumper _
> *I'm sorry the man is dead. It does sound as if there were some compentency problems. You guys scare me with this sue the homeowner nonsense. No wonder some little ol' ladies are afraid to hire me without workmans comp. Yes I have a half million dolllars liability coverage. And I have health insurance. And I have an accident compensation policy. And I KNOW that the customers risk exposure is ZERO because, whether our inane justice system allows it or not, I would NEVER sue someone else for my own mistakes....But they are scared that some nincompoop will hurt himself and then blame them. What on earth are you guys thinking? *



Remember, liability insurance protects you not the homeowner. If Joe the homeowner comes out to give you a drink of lemonade and gets hit with a falling branch an dies, his wife can sue you. I'd be willing to bet that a jury could grant more than 500K to her in damages. I'd recommend 5-10 million in General Liability. It wouldn't cost that much more and it could prevent some idiots spouse or children from getting everything you've worked for your whole life. In regards to WC, if you have guys working for you, pay it. Most Gen. Liab. policies won't cover subcontractors. Additionally, when Johnny no brains severs one of his legs it prevents him from taking everything you've worked so hard for.
My $.02


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## xander9727 (May 22, 2004)

It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay to little. 

When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that is all. 

When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. 

The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. 

If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better."
John Ruskin, 1819-1900

Pass this quote on to your price shoppers.
I do not lower my prices to get work. I will however, raise them if I think someone may be a pain in the posterior.


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## Stumper (May 22, 2004)

Xander-There are 2 ways to look at the Gen liability coverage.1. more is better 'cause if I get sued I'm covered. 2. More is bad 'cause it makes me a likely target for a lawsuit. First rule of suers and snakes: "Only sue people with assets. Insurance is an asset. Sue his assets off!". I don't know that I can even get WC as a sole proprietor. I have no employees to cover. Even if I could get WC I would not do so.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 22, 2004)

You can, but it is an armandaleg. They wanted like 12% of my gross. Heck i already paid for my VA plan.


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## xander9727 (May 23, 2004)

Your better off getting a good life insurance policy that covers disability than paying WC on yourself. I went from 1 million to 5 million on my Gen. Liab. and my premium only went up about 10%.
There are many ways to look at insurance. I prefer to err on the side of caution. That doesn't however make it the only way to do things. I see both sides and like most people choose the one I'm most comfortable with. After the whole lift fiasco I would rather be a little over insured than under insured.


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