# yo-yo ascending with Petzl I'D experience



## Plasmech (Jan 20, 2010)

This past weekend I did my first SRT ascents using the yo-yo technique with a Petzl I'D (L). Thought I'd share my thoughts and have a safety question...

Setting up the yo-yo was a breeze, you get very quick at this right off the bat. The very large size of the ID becomes a very miniscule issue at about 2 feet off the ground...it just doesn't matter and you get used to it very quickly. Kind of like when you buy a new vehicle that's a little bigger than your old one and for a few days it feels huge and feels like you're taking up the entire road but that quickly goes away and it feels the same as your old one...

The technique and coordination required to make the yo-yo work properly come very quickly too, within a few pumps it just feels natural. It's *really* easy to do too, the 3:1 advantage on the hand pull feels almost effortless. I like a foot loop a lot better than a foot grab too. With a little practice your foot stays in the loop pretty good. 

Shot right up an ash tree on the thing with no issues except for one: there seemed to be a lot of twisting of the rope which caused some bunch-ups around the re-direct pulley. This was annoying and I had to stop and un-tangle the mess a few times. Any ideas as to how to avoid and/or manage this? That was really the only thing I didn't like about the yo-yo.

I really like how you are alway tied into your primary saddle connection point with the I'D. Switching from ascending to descending takes seconds and does not require disconnecting from the saddle. Descending on the I'D...it doesn't really get much better than that I don't imagine. VERY smooth and controlled. I tried out the anti-panic feature a few times; it works. 

It does take a little while to come up to speed on the various control lever positions. Eventually you can do that blindly. 

I do have one safety question though: is it considered safe practice to rely 100% on the I'D (or gri gri)? I did not use any back-up Prusik or grab. Is this a bad practice? 

Anyway was hoping to get a few comments of suggestions here. Thanks guys!


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## moss (Jan 24, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> I do have one safety question though: is it considered safe practice to rely 100% on the I'D (or gri gri)? I did not use any back-up Prusik or grab. Is this a bad practice?



I've never known any climber to ever back up an I'D, a Grigri, an Eddy or a Cinch. All of these devices completely capture the rope. The only way to hurt yourself is operator error.
-moss


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## deevo (Jan 25, 2010)

moss said:


> I've never known any climber to ever back up an I'D, a Grigri, an Eddy or a Cinch. All of these devices completely capture the rope. The only way to hurt yourself is operator error.
> -moss



:greenchainsaw:
What moss said!


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 28, 2010)

Some of the larger companies do not allow their work climbers to rely solely on a mechanical device and require a hitch backup.


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## moss (Jan 28, 2010)

BC WetCoast said:


> Some of the larger companies do not allow their work climbers to rely solely on a mechanical device and require a hitch backup.



Guessing that's because someone in the big company home office isn't doing their homework. It's easier and less vulnerable to lawsuit to mandate broad safety policies as opposed to detailed and more accurate safety policies. There's pretty much no point in using any of the "hands off stop" descenders that enclose the rope if you have to include a backup hitch, it's too much trouble.
-moss


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## TreeWhitelock (Feb 9, 2010)

moss said:


> Guessing that's because someone in the big company home office isn't doing their homework. It's easier and less vulnerable to lawsuit to mandate broad safety policies as opposed to detailed and more accurate safety policies. There's pretty much no point in using any of the "hands off stop" descenders that enclose the rope if you have to include a backup hitch, it's too much trouble.
> -moss



:agree2:Absolutely. I do a lot of travel work for a large company and it seems like they have never seen or heard of some of lil goodies i spend my paycheck on! ha. Its like the man in the head office in is from the 50s and he still has his standard book with him.


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## Josh777 (Apr 26, 2010)

Used a grigri for the first time this weekend. I couldn't even begin to think how the thing could possibly fail. Like others have said, any other device or hitch would just muck up the works. -Josh


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## Damon (Apr 27, 2010)

Josh777 said:


> Used a grigri for the first time this weekend. I couldn't even begin to think how the thing could possibly fail. Like others have said, any other device or hitch would just muck up the works. -Josh



The only way one of these devices can fail is by users using rope that is too small or by complete operator error either in improper setup or in the event of a panic fall


Tom


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## konaman (May 27, 2010)

*my grigri failed once> soaking wet rope*

my research associate felt 15 meters down after being 4 hours in the canopy, the rope was so wet and I think thats why the grigri failed... I dont know any other reason to fall 15 meters... I remember that day the lever got stock coming down, then an abrupt fall, then stock again, and finally the last fall to the ground. I tried later that week with the same rope, this time dryer, the same grigri, and no problems. Any idea what else could happen?
thanks. 

PS, that happened in the Ecuadorian amazon basin so it was very humid and very hot.


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## moss (May 27, 2010)

konaman said:


> my research associate felt 15 meters down after being 4 hours in the canopy, the rope was so wet and I think thats why the grigri failed... I dont know any other reason to fall 15 meters... I remember that day the lever got stock coming down, then an abrupt fall, then stock again, and finally the last fall to the ground. I tried later that week with the same rope, this time dryer, the same grigri, and no problems. Any idea what else could happen?
> thanks.
> 
> PS, that happened in the Ecuadorian amazon basin so it was very humid and very hot.



I did some long Grigri rappels recently on a wet Sterling HTP 10mm static, the device didn't "fail" but it was very squirrelly, had to take it real slow. If I had to climb in wet conditions all the time I'd go with a rack.

Wet rope is going to change the performance of any of the similar rappel devices (Grigri, I'D, Rig, Eddy etc.), climber beware. It's pretty easy to put a hitch on the tail below the Grigri to provide additional control if you need it for wet conditions.
-moss


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## konaman (May 27, 2010)

Good advice moss, thanks. Also, we used a dynamic rope, do you think that affected the performance in wet conditions compared to static ropes?


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## moss (May 27, 2010)

konaman said:


> Good advice moss, thanks. Also, we used a dynamic rope, do you think that affected the performance in wet conditions compared to static ropes?



Don't know but I bet the dynamic was much better to land on after a long Grigri slip  A static is going to be so much better for ascent and descent, much less fatigue on ascent (wasted energy bouncing on a dynamic) and better control overall going down. Check out the Sterling HTP 10mm (Sherrill sells under the name Snakebite), one ascent and you'll never want to climb on anything else.

I hope your climber wasn't hurt by the incident. A question: Did your research associate have a belay hand on the rope before their uncontrolled drop? Theoretically they shouldn't have fallen if they had their hand on the rope below the Grigri. Using a device like that without a hand on the tail is super dangerous in any conditions.
-moss


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## masiman (May 27, 2010)

moss said:


> I did some long Grigri rappels recently on a wet Sterling HTP 10mm static, the device didn't "fail" but it was very squirrelly, had to take it real slow. If I had to climb in wet conditions all the time I'd go with a rack.
> 
> Wet rope is going to change the performance of any of the similar rappel devices (Grigri, I'D, Rig, Eddy etc.), climber beware. It's pretty easy to put a hitch on the tail below the Grigri to provide additional control if you need it for wet conditions.
> -moss



Moss,

With the hitch below the Grigri, wouldn't you worry about the Grigri contacting the top of the hitch and releasing it?


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## moss (May 27, 2010)

masiman said:


> Moss,
> 
> With the hitch below the Grigri, wouldn't you worry about the Grigri contacting the top of the hitch and releasing it?



I set it up so the top of the hitch won't reach the Grigri when it's loaded. Depending on your harness setup you'd need to be creative to make that work. Putting the hitch above a descender on single rope doesn't work, you need the descender to take some load to make the hitch functional. I put my Grigri on a mini tether to move it up a little higher.
-moss


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## masiman (May 27, 2010)

moss said:


> I set it up so the top of the hitch won't reach the Grigri when it's loaded. Depending on your harness setup you'd need to be creative to make that work. Putting the hitch above a descender on single rope doesn't work, you need the descender to take some load to make the hitch functional. I put my Grigri on a mini tether to move it up a little higher.
> -moss



That was the way I was thinking it would work. You pretty much have to ride the hitch down then. I think the good thing is that it gets your tail tending hand in the correct position.


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## moss (May 27, 2010)

masiman said:


> That was the way I was thinking it would work. You pretty much have to ride the hitch down then. I think the good thing is that it gets your tail tending hand in the correct position.



Yep, it doesn't put much wear on the hitch, your hand keeps the hitch in a "relaxed" position, if you need more friction just lift your hand a little or hands off and the hitch locks and stops descent.
-moss


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## Mark Johnson (Jul 25, 2012)

*hitch*

Hello, 

By 'hitch', what is meant is one uses an Autoblock, same as in a rappel? Thank you.


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## Plasmech (Jul 25, 2012)

Mark Johnson said:


> Hello,
> 
> By 'hitch', what is meant is one uses an Autoblock, same as in a rappel? Thank you.



Dang, this is an old thread!


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## Kincaid (Aug 10, 2012)

I usually just use a cow's tail to my ascender for a backup it stays pretty much out of the way and gives me peace of mind


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## smokey01 (Aug 21, 2012)

*Ecuadoriaon Amazon basin??*



konaman said:


> my research associate felt 15 meters down after being 4 hours in the canopy, the rope was so wet and I think thats why the grigri failed..
> 
> PS, that happened in the Ecuadorian amazon basin so it was very humid and very hot.



Where do you go climbing in the Ecuadorian amazon basin. I was in Quito Ecuador last week and saw some great trees in a local park but suspect there are some awesome places to climb but I do not know where or how to get there, any suggestions?


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## woodhappy (Aug 30, 2012)

Plasmech said:


> The technique and coordination required to make the yo-yo work properly come very quickly too, within a few pumps it just feels natural. It's *really* easy to do too, the 3:1 advantage on the hand pull feels almost effortless. I like a foot loop a lot better than a foot grab too. With a little practice your foot stays in the loop pretty good.



Sounds very exciting! I thought i was there too! Good work bro!


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