# Growing Firewood- best species ?



## preventec47 (Oct 5, 2011)

I heard from an acquaintance that he is planting about 20 acres of "Tree of Heaven"
trees and from doing a few googles I see that is does grow pretty rapidly but
I cannot find what it's density is so that I could compare it to oak or pine etc.
as far as BTU output.

As far as the question goes, I have never heard of anyone able to plan that 
far ahead so as to plant their own trees for firewood. Of course you would 
want to make sure the wood splits pretty well but you would want to pick 
the species that produces the most BTU's per acre I would guess.

I see that the Botanical Name: Paulownia tomentosa. commonly referred to also
as Empress Tree (paulownia) or Royal Empress Tree has what is considered
to be the fastest growing rate.
10-15 ft. growth per year
35-50 ft. 3 year height


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## Laird (Oct 5, 2011)

I had always heard that it was considered an invasive species that chokes out everything else. 

Found this:

ECOLOGICAL THREAT
Tree-of-heaven is a fast-growing tree and a prolific seeder, that can take over sites, replacing native plants and forming dense thickets. Ailanthus also produces chemicals that prevent the establishment of other plant species nearby. Its root system may be extensive and has been known to cause damage to sewers and foundations.


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## Laird (Oct 5, 2011)

Virginia Dept. of Forestry does say it makes good firewood though.

Based on research, Ailanthus should make acceptable
firewood. When dry, it is comparable to other preferred
hardwoods, such as ash, oak, maple, beech and hickory,
for heat value. Because of the high moisture content
of green Ailanthus, it is important that it is dried well
before using. Users of Ailanthus firewood reported no
odor concerns.


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## 3fordasho (Oct 5, 2011)

I have not researched it a whole lot, but Black Locust might fit the bill. Grows fast for a high btu wood. Low moisture content so it seasons quickly. Also considered an invasive species in some areas. I planted about 10 bare root seedlings in the spring of 09 and the best of them are 12' high and 3" diameter- far from firewood but not bad for only 2 years.


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## lfnh (Oct 5, 2011)

Tree of Heaven, should be burned at the stake.
Sent a few in the other direction. 
Check invasive species. 
ime.


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## preventec47 (Oct 5, 2011)

I have googled a lot of info about the "Tree of Heaven" species and am not worried
in the least if I were planting it for firewood. If it were to be the fastest growing
BTU wood per acre then it would be treated like a food plot to be harvested.
I could never find a weight per volume of the wood when dried but I did see
many references that it grew pretty fast. Black Locust is also very interesting
because it resists rot and has been used for centuries to build boats with.
also fence posts in this country. Black Locust I seem to recall never gets
very big though and I would want to chop a tree down when the base trunk
got to be about 20 inches in diameter.
Thanks Laird about the reference from W. VA. as to firewood use being similar
to hardwoods. That might be all I need to hear .... except that it grows only
half as fast at the Royal Empress tree/ Pawlonia and I have to check that one
out also as for producing good burning wood.


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## brewmonster (Oct 5, 2011)

_Ailanthus_ and _Pawlownia_ are indeed fast-growing trees. They are also wickedly aggressive weeds. Anyone who plants them will soon regret his folly. _Ailanthus_ makes for fair firewood, though I pity the poor sawyer who gets the stinky job of cutting it. They really reek. As for _Pawlownia_, the wood is extremely low in density and therefore worthless as firewood, though useful for woodworking.

A fast-growing tree that makes for great firewood? Can anyone think of anything better than black locust?


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## Chud (Oct 5, 2011)

That crap will be growing around the foundation of your house, out buildings, in your gutters and every where the seeds land. The stumps and roots will sprout until there dug or ground out.


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## Guido Salvage (Oct 5, 2011)

I think that it would be comparable to bamboo in terms of being invasive. Locust will also sprout from the roots but is much easier to control and much better firewood. 

Aspen is also a fast growing tree but has poor flammability qualities eliminating it as a choice for firewood. However it works well for lining your sauna!


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## 1harlowr (Oct 5, 2011)

I have 28 acres and about 5 acres of it is a reclaimed well site. There are lots of tree of heaven and black locust that grew on their own in the 5 acres. Both are pretty fast growing. The tree of heaven is a pain. They grow anywhere and shades out anything else. The wood is terribly brittle, heavy when when, burns in flash when dry, and rots very very fast. If I have to cut one of these I sometimes keep the wood to burn in the OWB during the summer. There is no way I would bring that wood inside. I don't even consider it a wood. 
Black locust doesn't grow as fast but a BL that is 1/2 as big as a TOH would yield more btus. 
Some of the TOHs I have are over 24" dbh. You can come and cut any of the 100's of them I have. If anyone tells you the make good firewood, they don't know what they are talking about. I'd rather burn pine, poplar, or silver maple.


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## kyle1! (Oct 5, 2011)

*others*

Mulberry or hackberry or walnut. These three grow fairly fast with Mulberry being the most invasive. But I don't think locust can be beat for an all around firewood tree so that would be my first choice. You don't care about thorns do you??? :msp_thumbdn:
I have tons of the ugly locust seed tape pods that I could send you if you are interested. 

Brian


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## Guido Salvage (Oct 5, 2011)

kyle1! said:


> Mulberry or hackberry or walnut.



If you have ever planted walnut hoping to get rich off the lumber you would not consider it to be fast growing.


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## redoakneck (Oct 5, 2011)

They are not as invasive the more north you go, but in tennessee and south I have seen those things growing in the rock cliff faces that were blasted for the road!!!! YUP growing in solid rock and lookin good, right next to kudzu and hardy fountain grass.


I have a 6 year old pawlonia tree in my back yard that is 40 feet tall and 11" DBH, so yes they do grow fast. I have seen them sprout in my yard but since they are in the grass they get mowed. I have started them from seed indoors also, grows almost as well as maple in my yard-which I also consider a more pesty weed. The wood is very soft and wet, seems a lot like sycamore around here. I would say this is not a good firewood species to intend to grow. I would grow redoak, black (NOT HONEY) locust, hickory (great smell) , walnut, maple, or cherry.

It would be best to plant many different species in case one species gets the plague (ash, elm) you don't lose everything.

The county extension agent should be able to help you if they are not retired or on vacation


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## stumpy75 (Oct 5, 2011)

As far as biomass growth per acre, poplar is not bad. Yes, it's not great firewood, but it grows fast and sprouts from the stump when cut. Start cutting at 10 - 15 years or so. Cut a few acres a year, and you will have a pretty sustainable harvest.


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## preventec47 (Oct 5, 2011)

1harlowr said:


> The wood is terribly brittle, heavy when wet, burns in flash when dry, and rots very very fast. If I have to cut one of these I sometimes keep the wood to burn in the OWB during the summer. There is no way I would bring that wood inside. I don't even consider it a wood.
> Black locust doesn't grow as fast but a BL that is 1/2 as big as a TOH would yield more btus.
> Some of the TOHs I have are over 24" dbh. You can come and cut any of the 100's of them I have. If anyone tells you the make good firewood, they don't know what they are talking about. I'd rather burn pine, poplar, or silver maple.


======

Curious as another poster claimed the Tree of Heaven was similar to other hardwoods.
The BTUs all depend on what the dry density is. Now wood that rots fast I do not
like but it is funny I cannot get the dry and wet density for the species anywhere.
If it burns in a flash when dry, it is either very light weight or perhaps already half
rotten ? ? ? Please explain why you would not bring it inside or do not consider
it wood ?


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## MNGuns (Oct 5, 2011)

stumpy75 said:


> As far as biomass growth per acre, poplar is not bad. Yes, it's not great firewood, but it grows fast and sprouts from the stump when cut. Start cutting at 10 - 15 years or so. Cut a few acres a year, and you will have a pretty sustainable harvest.


 
Hybrid poplars are big business here in Minnesota for biomass. As for firewood, they can be harvested as soon as five to seven years. A good breed under good conditions can grow 12-14 foot a year or better. I've been a big fan of them for some time, and there is some very interesting reading on the web about them.......that is if you like trees...


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## stumpy75 (Oct 5, 2011)

MNGuns said:


> Hybrid poplars are big business here in Minnesota for biomass. As for firewood, they can be harvested as soon as five to seven years. A good breed under good conditions can grow 12-14 foot a year or better. I've been a big fan of them for some time, and there is some very interesting reading on the web about them.......that is if you like trees...



Didn't realize that you could harvest as soon as 5 - 7 years. That makes it even better! I've always liked poplars too. Nice straight pieces that are easy to cut, dry well and are easy to split.

I'll have to read up on them some more!


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## burroak (Oct 5, 2011)

I agree with tulip poplar. Fast growing, super easy to split. Keep the nice ones for timber, and cut the worst for firewood. Low BTU's, but with the fast growth rate, I think you end up with more overall BTU's in the end.
Keep a few acres of land for the hardwoods like oak or locust just for some dense woods.

You have to be stupid to plant Tree-of-heaven. I'm constantly trying to remove them from my woods, and can't seem to get it done. They spread like wildfire and take over the land. Absolute worst tree to plant.


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## MNGuns (Oct 5, 2011)

stumpy75 said:


> Didn't realize that you could harvest as soon as 5 - 7 years. That makes it even better! I've always liked poplars too. Nice straight pieces that are easy to cut, dry well and are easy to split.
> 
> I'll have to read up on them some more!


 
I have some six year old hybrid poplars (OP-367 clone) that are 35'+ feet tall. They get full sun and good water from a rainage easement. If I didn't like them as much as I do, they would be ideal size for firewood.


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## slowp (Oct 5, 2011)

Three of us cut on a Tree Of Heaven last year. One guy fell it, and two of us took our bucking certification test on it. We all had sore throats afterwards, and the faller had a cough and sore throat. 

The tree can be an irritant. In fact, the fire guys were told to burn it out away from any houses, which made them wonder about *their* lungs.

A real, genuine botanist was in charge of this, so there may be some truth to the burning bit.


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## CTYank (Oct 5, 2011)

There are varieties of eucalyptus that have been used in fuelwood plantations, for such as the Benguela Railroad E-W across Angola, to carry copper ore from the Congo Basin.

This was back in the day before civil war, when they ran steamers. Apparently worked quite well, and made for a prosperous operation.

The trees may even have been related to Australian "gum" trees, which are eucalypts.


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## zogger (Oct 5, 2011)

*Industrial hemp*



stumpy75 said:


> As far as biomass growth per acre, poplar is not bad. Yes, it's not great firewood, but it grows fast and sprouts from the stump when cut. Start cutting at 10 - 15 years or so. Cut a few acres a year, and you will have a pretty sustainable harvest.



That would be my choice if it was legal if I was to do an on purpose planting for most cellulose per acre per year, with minimal input and ability to harvest starting with the first year. Multi use plant, yep, you could burn it for firewood, you'd harvest a ton of similar size sapling sized stalks, meaning you could mass process it or make pellets, etc, you can make animal or human foodstuff from the seeds, make biodiesel, plastics, fiber for weaving which is very durable and soft, all sorts of useful products. Very vigorous self seeding annual, or it can be more labor intensive. 

I used to play in a forest of the stuff when I was a kid, a left over ww2 hemp rope production farm area. Basically looks like little trees. It eventually got bulldozed and a subdivision built there. 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_hemp

With that said, I agree, the most common planted fast growing trees that can be used for firewood are the hybrid poplars. 

If you went slower, a more traditional type tree, hard to beat nice red oaks for good growth, good BTUs, easy to split, long established market, etc. 

You'll have to be a little patient though....acorns are cheap to scrounge....time's a-wastin'!


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## D&B Mack (Oct 6, 2011)

IMHO, Tree of Heaven stinks for firewood. Burns like Poplar, rots quickly and they will grow anywhere. As a matter of fact, the split rounds I had last year started to grow sprouts by summer time. I person's property we were harvesting from has a serious issue with them. She has about 40 acres and these trees are killing off her good trees. In the 3rd year working there, and I think there are more than when we started.:bang:


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## blackdogon57 (Oct 6, 2011)

Why not grow a cash crop of some kind and buy firewood with some of the profits ?


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## KiwiBro (Oct 6, 2011)

Not sure about up there but here down under I'd probably go with Wattles or Eucs. Fast turn around and can get multiple rotations, good firewood, and the Wattles in particular are super easy to split. Am currently exploring the notion of planting a few acres of A. melanoxylon (sp?) (sometimes called black wattle).


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## Dalmatian90 (Oct 6, 2011)

For firewood?

I wouldn't plant a single species plantation. Leave that to the guys who want to harvest everything at once for an industrial market like timber or pulp. Can't imagine you'll clear cut a single 20 acre lot once ever xx years for firewood today.

Mixed hardwoods up here in Connecticut have a sustainable yield of 1/2 cord per acre per year, 20 acres = 10 cords once the lot is gets going.

Mixed is good. Wouldn't it suck if 15 years ago you had planted 20 acres of nothing but Ash and had Emerald Ash Borer then show up? Elms and Chestnuts have succumbed over the years. They're working hard to quarantine Asian Longhorn Beetle around Worcester, Mass now -- a critter that loves Maple. Oaks in my area where under a lot of stress in the late 70s/early 80s from Gypsy Moths.

Plant a mix so you have a resilient woodlot. That reduces your risk a lot.


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## KsWoodsMan (Oct 6, 2011)

Like others have mentioned, I wouldn't do it with Tree o' Heaven.

I'd use something else that was a prolific stump sprouter, taking advantage of the well established root system from the initial cutting. Trim back all but one of the watersprouts from each stump and keep it trimmed up for height till it caught up to the others and top it out. I seen mulberry done this way that every growth ring was wider than my thumb. The first 2 growth rings I couldn't cover with the palm of my hand and thumb. It had a 24" DBH when removed at 15 years old. The top was severely cut back every few years in hopes it would die. Everything above 15 feet off the ground (where it was topped at) was about 4" dia. and came out of it at ever direction.


Just my 2 cents worth here.


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## lfnh (Oct 6, 2011)

+1 to mixed.
State forester or extension svc can source help.


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## Richard Dupp (Oct 7, 2011)

Invasive? You guys ever seen autumn olive?


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## 1harlowr (Oct 7, 2011)

preventec47 said:


> ======
> 
> Curious as another poster claimed the Tree of Heaven was similar to other hardwoods.
> The BTUs all depend on what the dry density is. Now wood that rots fast I do not
> ...


 
TOH is nothing close to a hard wood. When dry is very light and when green is unbelievably heavy. It rots as fast as any wood I've every seen even standing dead. I can't stand the smell so I wouldn't bring it anywhere near my door. Smells like sumac to me.


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## Rearden (Oct 8, 2011)

Tree of Heaven is also called 'Chinese Sumac', so it's no wonder it smells like it to ya. Also goes by 'Stinky Sumac'...go figure.
Total crap for your intended purpose, even if it didn't stink, cause reactions in many people, etc.

The Paulownia/Royal Empress/Princess tree may however bear further scrutiny. Although both are listed as invasive species in parts or most of the U.S. (don't know about O.P.'s locale) there has been a lot of work done with specific genetic variants in Australia to develop this as a more economical commercial timber. The information that I've read is somewhat ambiguous I felt in that on the one hand they suggest that it requires very specific parameters to really perform well, and yet its invasiveness was also listed as a positive for difficult land reclamation projects where its ability to "seemingly grow anywhere" was noted.

What I've read says that the tree excels at dealing with compacted soils and helps improve fertility by working its roots through these soils to help beak them up and better aerate them. What I have seen is a root system that travels above ground on a whim and is of such huge size as to resemble a giant octopus. I'll try to go back and get a few pictures of one that I recently worked on. A 100' white oak was blown over and clipped a large side branch of the Princess Tree on the way down. The difference when picking up one vs. the other during the clean-up was pretty shocking. My daughter was showing off (5' nuthin' and 85 lbs.) picking up Paulownia logs bigger than her. The white oak...not so much. The roots also had no problem lifting the homeowner's back patio completely out of the ground in just a few short years (I believe she said it was about a 6' whip roughly 6 years prior to my arrival). Some of the trees roots now project a good foot above the surrounding soil, so if equipment access for mowing the understory is important this could be a serious concern.

The tree has a huge flat leaf that affords very quick shade, but of course that also means it will shade out most everything beneath its canopy. Although it is deciduous and is referred to as a hardwood, I would not consider it anywhere near as dense as even a hybrid poplar. It literally cuts like butter. I was limbing the downed trees with my little 170 and it would run straight through this stuff so fast it was like cutting air. No joke, I could have just set the idle up a bit and probably finished the whole tree off. I can't believe that it has any real heat potential since its heft is closer to that of balsa wood, but it has been adopted for a wide variety of products in the Pacific Rim. 

It is relatively warp resistant and is said to dry fairly rapidly. It does have a nice straight grain and grows incredibly fast. When harvested for wood working it has a nice light grain and machines very easily due to its softness. I would have to say that the example I saw had grown at least 7-8' a year to reach the size that I witnessed. Of course the 16" caliper tree also had 12" caliper roots running across the yard.

Having said all of that it also harbors a wide variety of pest moths, so that should be evaluated with your local extension agent. I would also echo the prior warnings about mono-cultures as we here in the Mid-Atlantic have been beset with a variety of wood boring pests, not the least of which is the Emerald Bark Beetle. Our red oaks were all lost in a matter of just three years and there's really nothing you can do to control them. Nearby white oaks and maples are so far untouched but whose to say where they'll go next? The locusts are susceptible to locust borers, but as yet we haven't been subjected to them.

The locust is a fantastic firewood as long as you don't have to cut it or split it. Its cell structure develops some sort of crystalline mineral deposits that dull cutters like cutting roots. The grain is very twisted and tends to shred as much as split, but once split and dried it out produces the oak species in btu's I seem to recall. Its use as a fence post is legend around here but is still susceptible to termites. Cattle will forage on the saplings but these are often also the thorniest buggers you'll ever have the displeasure our grappling with. This seems to lessen with the age of the tree but the older they get the uglier they get. Gnarly is the word that comes to mind. The way their buds are hidden they almost always look like standing dead wood. Locusts limbs and branching is very brittle, so they can be messy, and it will develop water sprouts and volunteers with the best of the swamp maples, but doesn't hold up well in storms. Locusts are probably the most frequent storm victim around here aside from the Bradford pears and silver maples, usually coming completely out of the ground. 

We've planted a variety of trees in the last few years for shade and future firewood. One that might have some promise is the Zelkova. They top out at around 80' and are more vase shaped and branching, but they are extremely fast growing (4-5' a year in our heavy clay) and the increase in trunk girth has been twice that of similar aged oaks and maples. Can't speak to the cutting, splitting and burn characteristics yet as we haven't gotten that far, but it is also highly recommended as a city tree for its tolerance of less than ideal growing conditions. Looks like Medusa's head the way the leaders develop, but it does provide an abundance of pretty quick shade.

Hope this helps. Good luck and happy splitting.


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