# How high would you climb this tree?



## dblack (Jan 21, 2015)

Question for all you other climbers about removals. Sorry the picture is poor I had someone take it while I was driving. If the homeowner asked me to remove that pine, how would I go about getting the top safely on the ground? I know up to the last 20 feet of the trunk, I could limb it with the handsaw and drop the branches in a controlled manner. My question is, what is the safest way to get the top 15 feet of the tree safely on the ground? To me, it looks too skinny and too brittle to climb really high. That is a lot of wood to just cut a notch and drop into the yard(and risk it not going the right way). My only thought is to use the pole pruner to take as many branches off over my head as possible(to minimize weight), then cut the top out of it. Is this something you guys would rig? My question is at what trunk diameter do you guys stop climbing for fear of it getting brittle and breaking out? And what is the plan of action for getting the top 15 feet of the tree safely on the ground without damaging anything or getting hurt. I know with a bucket truck this would be easy. I also know that you can either rig sections of the trunk down or do snap cuts so I am pretty comfortable with that. But how to get the top 15 feet out of the tree safely really has me stumped. Let me know if I can clarify anything. Thanks for the replies in advance.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 21, 2015)

Seriously? OK... notch and backcut. Looks like all the weight is on that right side, right where it needs to be.


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## jomoco (Jan 21, 2015)

Watch Reg Coates' stuff on YouTube and you'll learn multiple ways of rigging that top down with total control.

Me? I'd Speedline it down, of course!




jomoco


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## mike515 (Jan 21, 2015)

If the diameter is small enough that you don't feel comfortable climbing any higher....the rest if the top should be light enough to lower with a rope fairly easily. If you think it will be too heavy, I would guess it must be big enough diameter to continue climbing.


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## I'llbearealclimberoneday (Jan 21, 2015)

So what happened to all the branches on the left side?


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## no tree to big (Jan 21, 2015)

R u a climber?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 22, 2015)

Looks pretty obvious it used to have a twin to the left.


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## I'llbearealclimberoneday (Jan 22, 2015)

That was more of a rhetorical question for the OP than a serious question to the forum. Nobody limbs that far up the side of a tree when utilities aren't involved, unless a lineman's belt and a wild thing are. The shed, roof and fence aren't brand new, so I know James wasn't there and didn't slide down and magically break every branch on that side haha.

The "competition" tree was probably fell in one shot, even with weight favoring the other direction , so unless there is too much slope towards the house, to where rolling is a big concern, I don't see why this one couldn't be also.

Limbing and topping that with a Handsaw would suck. And if you don't already have climbing gear and the intent to use it somewhat frequently, you'd be ahead financially subbing that one out. As far as having control while cutting limbs over a few inches with a Handsaw, it seems like they usually hinge down and fall tip first. That's a good way to hit your self or have one bounce into something. That same method reduces some of the shock on a zip line though or on your rigging line if your going to butt tie and lower them though.


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## dblack (Jan 22, 2015)

If I were to speedline the top down, is there a possibility of the upper portion of the tree being too brittle to support the shock of the top falling out and the weight of me when I cut it? Seems like a lot of shock on the trunk... 

Reg Coats is the man too I will totally check some of his videos out.


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## Zale (Jan 22, 2015)

Take small pieces and rig it out. Is this your first time removing a tree this size?


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## no tree to big (Jan 22, 2015)

Good luck maybe say a prayer before u go up... seriously though what experience do u have?


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## mike515 (Jan 22, 2015)

This is a pretty straight forward removal but....I'm going to assume that maybe you don't have 100 years of experience (nothing wrong with that) so I'll break it down for you as to how I would do it. I can't say for sure if I would remove all of the lower limbs because I can't see what's below the tree (I probably would and I might leave some stubs...maybe not.) I count maybe 7-8 branches from the bottom. Go up to that point (with your feet at branch 7 or 8), notch the top (rope it) and drop it toward the area with the biggest landing area and the least obstructions on the way down. If it makes you feel safer, rope it the way you normally would and also set a line higher in the top so someone can pull the top over in the direction of the notch. If you're worried about it swinging back at you, set your pulley or fulcrum a little closer to your feet so it swings and falls below you. Be prepared to go for a little ride if you have newbs on the ground. Rinse, repeat...until you can drop the trunk safely. It should go without saying, but if you leave some of the lower branches, you need to account for the possible roll the tree might take when you drop it over. If you're experienced enough that this post insults your opinion of yourself, I apologize...I can only evaluate what I'm reading. If you find this helpful...great. Let us know how it goes. And.....just do it! Don't over-think it. Especially if you have that second line up there. Just do what you know you have to do. You can talk yourself out of a lot of things.


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## CanopyGorilla (Jan 22, 2015)

If that tree (very small and easy from what I can see) is giving you pause, contract an experienced climber for this one and pick his brain. This isn't even 101, this should be in homeowner helper.


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## Str8six (Jan 23, 2015)

Seems like you are more concerned with the structural integrity of the tree more than your skill or ability. That's just not something that can be answered through a picture. There are just too many factors that play into the equation to answer over the internet. Size, health and so many other things factor into how much the tree will hold as far as weight and loading during rigging. That's just what's going through my mind but i have been wrong before.


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## dblack (Jan 24, 2015)

There are ten ways to get this tree on the ground safely. My question was if everything needed to be rigged or dropped by hand what is the sequence of events that would be needed to do that? No I do not have a huge amount of experience, I am learning. I climb once a week or less so I am not a homeowner but just looking for some thoughts... Thanks for the replies. 

What is the cause for the accident that happens in this video


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## Pelorus (Jan 24, 2015)

Given your limitations, I think this link might be insightful....
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/death-of-peter-donzelli.24808/


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## no tree to big (Jan 24, 2015)

dblack said:


> There are ten ways to get this tree on the ground safely. My question was if everything needed to be rigged or dropped by hand what is the sequence of events that would be needed to do that? No I do not have a huge amount of experience, I am learning. I climb once a week or less so I am not a homeowner but just looking for some thoughts... Thanks for the replies.
> 
> What is the cause for the accident that happens in this video



Fairly big top on a skinny pole and the top came to an abrupt stop. sometimes the pole will shake like hell and u need to be ready spiked in hard make the cut drop the saw and brace yourself solid so u don't get whipped around like in the video


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## jomoco (Jan 24, 2015)

You're creeping me out DB.

Subcontract that removal to a pro and pay close attention to how he does it.

Seriously. 

jomoco


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 24, 2015)

This is the difference between learning on the job and buying some gear and trying to learn over the internet. By the time a climber trainee does a tree like that, he should have worked the ground on fifty just like it, given his climbet a rid by not letting it run, and already know just what to do when he gets up there.


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## Pelorus (Jan 24, 2015)

Everyone had to start their learning curve somewhere, whether on-the-job training, theory, trial and error experimentation, whatever.
As a self-taught climber, I have less patience with individuals asking the same sorta questions I asked myself back in '87, because of the good info readily available nowadays via the Internet, training courses, etc.


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## jomoco (Jan 24, 2015)

Having known dozens n dozens of groundmen who aspired to become climbers, then learning the hard way that they weren't suited for it, and returning to groundman status, only strengthens my conviction that climbing trees requires that certain mix of physical dexterity and mental confidence that's only found in a relatively small minority of the general population.

The vast majority of the tree service owners I've worked for over four decades now didn't have what it takes to be successful climbers, yet did have what it takes to run successful tree services. Three of them are now millionaires!

What I'm saying is you don't have to be a climber to succeed in this biz by any means.

It scares the bejesus out of me to give advice on the Internet to beginning climbers who for all I know are completely unsuited to become climbers in the first place, who then take that advice and get themselves hurt or killed.

The crux of the matter is that every beginner needs at least one pro on their job to keep them from getting into something way over their heads, and the Internet is no substitute for that by any stretch of the imagination, IMO.

Which is why I strongly suggest DB gets a pro to teach him how to get even such a straight forward and easy removal safely on the ground.

It's my opinion that the dude in your vid made a series of mistakes to get rag dolled like that DB. Too big a top, amateur on the rope, not stabilizing himself well enough to take a relatively minor ride, and most importantly, losing his footing during that ride. I suspect his gaffs were dull or too short to penetrate past the cambium into the heartwood or xylem of that euc.

I'm constantly amazed and flabbergasted by how many supposedly pro climbers I meet with dangerously dull or too short gaffs to work hardwoods down safely with. Sure they may work in softwood conifers n such, but are downright dangerous accidents waiting to happen in hardwood trees like eucs etc.

Live long and prosper DB.

jomoco


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 24, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Given your limitations, I think this link might be insightful....
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/death-of-peter-donzelli.24808/



I remember Peter from back when ISA had a forum,,quite a guy a sad ending.
Jeff


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## Zale (Jan 24, 2015)

I remember going over his accident at our weekly safety meeting. Seems just like yesterday.


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## miko0618 (Jan 25, 2015)

is it ok to drop the top in the yard? I don't see why you couldn't climb to the last 10 feet of it. you could tie off with an additional line lower if you are that worried about it. you would get busted up if it broke and a lower line caught you but you'd live.


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## treebilly (Jan 25, 2015)

To answer the titled question, as high as needed to do the job. On white pine I don't get into the tiny wood if I don't have to. But when I do I'll tie off lower and capture my line with loop runners and caribiners as I go higher. Or tie off and double wrap my lanyard. On that tree I'd probably zip it but might just let the top sail. Can't give any real advice without seeing it for myself.

Would Pete have taught ACRT classes in the late 90's by any chance? It's been a long time and I'd have to dig up my paperwork to check my instructors last name.


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## jomoco (Jan 25, 2015)

Compare the wood diameter of this easy Euc removal surrounded by targets, to the wood diameter that rocked the climber off his footing in your vid DB.

The reason I use a handsaw on the first few zips?

To make dang sure my 200's got enough fuel for the 75 feet of trunk wood below me.



jomoco


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## dblack (Jan 26, 2015)

jomoco said:


> Compare the wood diameter of this easy Euc removal surrounded by targets, to the wood diameter that rocked the climber off his footing in your vid DB.
> 
> The reason I use a handsaw on the first few zips?
> 
> ...



thank you @jomoco the video was very helpful


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## square1 (Jan 26, 2015)

37' 6 5/8"


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## derwoodii (Jan 27, 2015)

[QUOTE="dblack, post: 5170141, member: 86441

What is the cause for the accident that happens in this video [/QUOTE]


there a whole newish school of thought about how trees grow and response to wind inputs. it focus on damping of energy by the tree mass and limbs absorbing the wind input and consuming - dampening that energy. In the case with all the limbs removed the harmonic of the remaining trunk responded when the top section popped off 
Some are saying in cases such as this leave a few lower limbs or prepare & enjoy the ride


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## miko0618 (Jan 27, 2015)

There's no doubt a tree is more stable with its total weight. That's not what happened in that video. That was way too much top for some hardware store rope. Just go up higher. Under most circumstances you are a flea to a tree. Even smaller trees.


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## Boomslang (Jan 27, 2015)

That had less to do with the size of the top or rope used than it did with the fact he was rigging something that size on to a carabiner. Use a block.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 27, 2015)

Let's face it, if the groundies hadn't been so busy texting they forgot to let it run...


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## derwoodii (Jan 27, 2015)

i think in the honk kong vid he actually snagged a tag a line or sumthin as the head went over that generated the snap back but it was handy to illustrate the forces,,, sadly not for him 

look up dr Ken James tree bio dynamics there some good reads on the topic about


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## jomoco (Jan 27, 2015)

This euc had a lean right over a condo, but by speedlining the top 180 degrees opposite of that lean, it was a piece of cake, even at 90 feet.


jomoco


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 27, 2015)

jomoco said:


> This euc had a lean right over a condo, but by speedlining the top 180 degrees opposite of that lean, it was a piece of cake, even at 90 feet.View attachment 398606
> 
> 
> jomoco



The San Diego sky,,,love it here.
Jeff


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## beastmaster (Jan 28, 2015)

That would be a perfect zip line tree. I think I'd just go up as high as I felt confertable. And tie off the top, but letting it run all the way to the ground. I would probably hinge it over easy. 
Ieaving a small stub and taking one wrap around the tree letting the stub catch it, will act like a brake, don't need no groundsman on rope.


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## capetrees (Feb 14, 2015)

mike515 said:


> This is a pretty straight forward removal but....I'm going to assume that maybe you don't have 100 years of experience (nothing wrong with that) so I'll break it down for you as to how I would do it. I can't say for sure if I would remove all of the lower limbs because I can't see what's below the tree (I probably would and I might leave some stubs...maybe not.) I count maybe 7-8 branches from the bottom. Go up to that point (with your feet at branch 7 or 8), notch the top (rope it) and drop it toward the area with the biggest landing area and the least obstructions on the way down. If it makes you feel safer, rope it the way you normally would and also set a line higher in the top so someone can pull the top over in the direction of the notch. If you're worried about it swinging back at you, set your pulley or fulcrum a little closer to your feet so it swings and falls below you. Be prepared to go for a little ride if you have newbs on the ground. Rinse, repeat...until you can drop the trunk safely. It should go without saying, but if you leave some of the lower branches, you need to account for the possible roll the tree might take when you drop it over. If you're experienced enough that this post insults your opinion of yourself, I apologize...I can only evaluate what I'm reading. If you find this helpful...great. Let us know how it goes. And.....just do it! Don't over-think it. Especially if you have that second line up there. Just do what you know you have to do. You can talk yourself out of a lot of things.



What he said. Get to a point a slight bit above half way up, set a rope above that point to pull the top to whatever direction you want it to go, tie the butt of the upper trunk to the remaining trunk below where you want to cut and have at it. The slightly shorter top will fall to the direction of the pulled rope and the top won't hit the ground due to it being shorter that the remaining trunk is tall. The lower trunk isn't going to break from your weight and the weight of the upper trunk if you're around the half way point. Keep in mind, the lower half is larger diameter and stronger and the upper is tapering as you go up making it lighter. Go for it!!


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

I


no tree to big said:


> Good luck maybe say a prayer before u go up... seriously though what experience do u have?


 Would say as much as you. Hahaha. You spelled "too" wrong in your screen name, TOO.


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> I
> 
> Would say as much as you. Hahaha. You spelled "too" wrong in your screen name, TOO.


Thanks for caring bro
Maybe won day I'll find enuff ****s to will myself two change it


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> Thanks for caring bro
> Maybe won day I'll find enuff ****s to will myself two change it


What? That sentence makes no sense. Your spelling is atrocious, my man. And no worries about my cares. Just hate to see the english language butchered, ya dig?


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

Actually big dog my grammer is "atrocious", that's a fancey word, had to look it up... my spelling actually ain't half bad...


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

"Grammer" is spelled wrong. (grammar)
"Fancey" is spelled wrong. (fancy)
And in previous posts:
"One" is misspelled, "too" is also misspelled. 

So yes, your spelling IS "half bad". But you're right, your grammar is shite too.


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

Did you like that? I did it more better just for you! Miz using to too and two is not spelling that is gramma... isn't one and won grammar too? Because they are both spelled correctly just misused, right?


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

Its the misspelling of the intended word. Plain and simple. Grammar is the conjugation of verbs. Dillhole.


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

Oh kool big dog thanks for the clarification I wish I could give you a high five to show you my appreciation!


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> Oh kool big dog thanks for the clarification I wish I could give you a high five to show you my appreciation!


Send me a cheque.


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 24, 2015)

Retards[emoji23]


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> Retards[emoji23]


Seems to me, you haven't added anything to this thread anymore helpful than the two retards. Originally i was trying to stick up a little for OP. 

that tree is run of the mill, everyday. 
Let the ******* limbs drop. Leave a few for dampening if that's your dig, its a twig, it won't matter. Speed line it if need be. But be careful of the angle of attachment, could do more harm than good. All about the bending moment. 

Blow the top out into the yard. No? Cow hitch a block, hell, a CMI pulley with a dead eye sling, one wrap on a porty.. Done. For the spar: hand bomb chunks, or use a vertical speedline.


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Send me a cheque.


Is that french? [emoji120] 


KenJax Tree said:


> Retards[emoji23]


I'm just trying to entertain myself


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

Im canadian, you uncultured backwards ass hillbilly. It discerns between a pay "cheque" and "checking"on something. Wow. But i do agree with you on the entertaining myself.


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

Actually I would love to live the way of the hillbilly a lot less grammar police


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 24, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> Is that french? [emoji120]
> 
> I'm just trying to entertain myself


Its entertaining no doubt[emoji3]


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 24, 2015)

Most 'Arboristsite Lurkers' are either dopes or wannabe's.
Jeff


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 24, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> Most 'Arboristsite Lurkers' are either dopes or wannabe's.
> Jeff


Or both


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> Most 'Arboristsite Lurkers' are either dopes or wannabe's.
> Jeff


That's the most foolish thing I've ever heard. I climb trees. I dont ****ing fool around on the internet endlessly. This forum has an AWESOME saw trading category. Otherwise, (other than the few that buzz around other forums) this site is really lacking in professional know how, as far as arboriculture goes. There were a few relevant posts by people who're clearly familiar with the work and knowledgeable. But overall, this thread epitomizes what seems to be the baseline understanding of most members. Wannabe's. Funny the name would suggest otherwise..


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 24, 2015)

Thats funny!!! Some of these guys were in trees when you were still nursing on mommies titty[emoji1]


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> Thats funny!!! Some of these guys were in trees when you were still nursing on mommies titty[emoji1]


Yourself included no doubt? With the kickback scars to prove it. Good Ol boys, snatching tops on steel biners and tow straps. Hoooha! Double lanyard, trunk wraps, and blown out backs, boy howdy. That's how ya do 'er.


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> Thats funny!!! Some of these guys were in trees when you were still nursing on mommies titty[emoji1]


that sounds good right now well not mommies, lol


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> Most 'Arboristsite Lurkers' are either dopes or wannabe's.
> Jeff


Hey Jeff was it beautiful today?


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 24, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Yourself included no doubt? With the kickback scars to prove it. Good Ol boys, snatching tops on steel biners and tow straps. Hoooha! Double lanyard, trunk wraps, and blown out backs, boy howdy. That's how ya do 'er.



This is what I mean. Lurker comes in and starts crap talk without knowing who he is talking about. I will put my record up against a crap starting, egomaniac lurker any day.
BTW, do you have an ISA cert. number?, are you an arborist? Just curious. How many years climbing?
Like I said, you talk crap without even saying hi or showing any respect,,,now answer my questions,,I will answer yours.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 24, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> Hey Jeff was it beautiful today?



Totally Dude! 
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 24, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Yourself included no doubt? With the kickback scars to prove it. Good Ol boys, snatching tops on steel biners and tow straps. Hoooha! Double lanyard, trunk wraps, and blown out backs, boy howdy. That's how ya do 'er.



Wow, you are really ignorant if you think you can paint with that broad of a brush,,or just like starting crap.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 24, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> I do have a cert. I am an arborist, and a ******* good one at that. My life is trees. As if im going to post it on an open forum. You wanna exchange via pm im there all day. You assuming i know nothing because i dont fiddle **** on the internet endlessly, is no different that the **** youre accusing me of.



You started crap talking,, I can hang. 
BTW, you forgot an apostrophe in ' youre
BTW, cert. numbers are on the internet, mine is WE7624A,,,see, no problem.
I started climbing in 1977-1978,,,what about you?
Jeff


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> You started crap talking,, I can hang.
> BTW, you forgot an apostrophe in ' youre
> BTW, cert. numbers are on the internet, mine is WE7624A,,,see, no problem.
> I started climbing in 1977-1978,,,what about you?
> Jeff


Just made a huge mistake I am going to verify your qualifications, you are in big trouble now!


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> Wow, you are really ignorant if you think you can paint with that broad of a brush,,or just like starting crap.
> Jeff


You certainly can with the information available here. Its an observation. Can you tell me WHY you wouldn't drop a top on a biner, why trunk wraps are passe, or for that matter, weigh in on the OP issue at hand with you 700+ yrs experience?


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> You certainly can with the information available here. Its an observation. Can you tell me WHY you wouldn't drop a top on a biner, why trunk wraps are passe, or for that matter, weigh in on the OP issue at hand with you 700+ yrs experience?


Why would I not drop a top on a biner? Cause that's just silly 
trunk wraps will live forever! Some of my best work was on trunk wraps..


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> Why would I not drop a top on a biner? Cause that's just silly
> trunk wraps will live forever! Some of my best work was on trunk wraps..


WHY is it silly? I dont care that someone told you not to do it. No one here seems to understand anything FULLY.


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

Well for a complete answer I need to know what biner u are using?


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

No, you dont. And you just proved my point. Im done here.


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

Success!


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 24, 2015)

Whats a biner?


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

I think it a Mexican
and The reason I wouldn't drop a top on my biner is then I'd have to do all the work


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

Nothing of value anywhere. Before you kill yourself, research friction, bend ratios, wlls, bending moments, the words static and dynamic, mass dampening, and TRY to be safe. Congratulations on single handedly ruining someones faith in the knowledge of an online community. A well deserved hand to you.


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

Hmm I no bout that stuff I actually know a lot about that kinda stuff


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> I think it a Mexican
> and The reason I wouldn't drop a top on my biner is then I'd have to do all the work





KenJax Tree said:


> Whats a biner?


Cute.


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> Hmm I no bout that stuff I actually know a lot about that kinda stuff


Yup. No doubt.


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## no tree to big (Feb 24, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Yup. No doubt.


I'm pretty good at everything but spelling and people skills. I'm going to cus out some poor unsuspecting homeowner tomorrow and I'm going to enjoy it!


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Yup. No doubt.


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## Pelorus (Feb 24, 2015)

ON-0459A..........practicing not-for-profit Arboriculture since '87
Thankful I've also never dropped a top on my crew of biners.


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 24, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Nothing of value anywhere. Before you kill yourself, research friction, bend ratios, wlls, bending moments, the words static and dynamic, mass dampening, and TRY to be safe. Congratulations on single handedly ruining someones faith in the knowledge of an online community. A well deserved hand to you.



Good job. You looked up google and got a bunch of technical terms. Show us you know how to use them. Show us the pics big boy.


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## acer-kid (Feb 24, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> Good job. You looked up google and got a bunch of technical terms. Show us you know how to use them. Show us the pics big boy.


Its not just a bunch of technical terms. This seems like the buzzs learning disabled younger brother. Its a laugh. What pics monkey? Show me some knowledge. 
Where would you think friction in a rigging system would be best for loading? At a terminal rig point, or a basal anchor?

Do redirects reduce force unpon terminal point? Does that force multiply at the redirect points? Why? What's an acceptable bend ratio, ya figure?

If Situation allows.. Would leaving branches on a tall spar for topping be benefical or not do you think?

How about regular old climbing. What for does your tip see in ddrt? How does that tranfer to hitch? 

I could go on and on. Answer some questions. Show me the pics big boy. You all assume I'm so stupid.. Show me what you know


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

I come from a line of loggers and tree workers. I have all the confidence in the world in my knowledge and skill. Thinking youre a hotdog because you learned "the old way" is ignorant. Progress happens for a reason. I recognize dangerous habits my father and grandfather used as everyday pratice.. So yes, i took courses, read books. Took in theory to better my pratical skills. Lets chastise those who try and better themselves, and rally those who're concrete minded against them. Viva ignorance!


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Ps.. No qualified doctor is going to do tree work by choice you bullshitter. Thiss is the mentatlity around here. Laugable. A doctor. Go **** off somewhere and post your lies in the homeowner threads.


You spelled "this" "laughable" and "mentality" wrong Chief[emoji12]


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> You spelled "this" "laughable" and "mentality" wrong Chief[emoji12]


Sure did. You forgot to use commas, sir.
But lets ignore the argument about how all you guys are computer chair arborists, and focus on my typing.


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> No, you dont. And you just proved my point. Im done here.


Something keeping you here?[emoji4]


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Snow.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> No, you dont. And you just proved my point. *Im done here*.


Yes you are if I have to delete another one of your post, Chill out on the language some.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> Yes you are if I have to delete another one of your post, Chill out on the language some.


Its censored?


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## stihl sawing (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Its censored?


Most of it, I know you're mad but please calm down some.


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Its censored?


Why are you so angry?


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Its censored?



Its should be It's; a conjugation of "It is"


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

Oops, conjunction, not conjugation.


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Its not just a bunch of technical terms. This seems like the buzzs learning disabled younger brother. Its a laugh. What pics monkey? Show me some knowledge.
> Where would you think friction in a rigging system would be best for loading? At a terminal rig point, or a basal anchor?
> 
> Do redirects reduce force unpon terminal point? Does that force multiply at the redirect points? Why? What's an acceptable bend ratio, ya figure?
> ...


What a pompous little troll.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Oops, conjunction, not conjugation.





Pelorus said:


> Its should be It's; a conjugation of "It is"


"it's" is a contraction. Also.. "it" is not a verb. Genius. The word Conjunction is irrelevant to any conversation had here.

Its great that no one here has the mental fortitude to actually PROVE what they know.. Its easy. Show me up. I would love to learn something new. Its the whole point of these forums, no?


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> "it's" is a contraction. Also.. "it" is not a verb. Genius. The word Conjunction is irrelevant to any conversation had here.
> 
> Its great that no one here has the mental fortitude to actually PROVE what they know.. Its easy. Show me up. I would love to learn something new. Its the whole point of these forums, no?


Why would anyone answer random questions to prove to you what they know? Who are you?


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> "it's" is a contraction. Also.. "it" is not a verb. Genius. The word Conjunction is irrelevant to any conversation had here.
> 
> Its great that no one here has the mental fortitude to actually PROVE what they know.. Its easy. Show me up. I would love to learn something new. Its the whole point of these forums, no?


If you love to learn, and this is a good platform for learning, learn how to interact with your fellow arborist.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

miko0618 said:


> If you love to learn, and this is a good platform for learning, learn how to interact with your fellow arborist.


I do not consider jumping on people networking. Good for the goose, good for the gander. My original post was sticking up for the OP. and all the hillbilly hacks rallied against me. Mind you.. Questioning my abilities.. But never once adding anything of value that would lead me to believe there IS knowledge available here. Frankly im dissapointed in a site named "arboristsite"

And i certainly NEVER claimed this is a good platform for learning. The complete opposite, actually. Its gteat for honing useless debating skills.. Otherwise.. "little tikes/cabbage patch kids" arboriculture, is the general atmosphere around here.


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> "it's" is a contraction. Also.. "it" is not a verb. Genius. The word Conjunction is irrelevant to any conversation had here.
> 
> Its great that no one here has the mental fortitude to actually PROVE what they know.. Its easy. Show me up. I would love to learn something new. Its the whole point of these forums, no?





acer-kid said:


> "it's" is a contraction. Also.. "it" is not a verb. Genius. The word Conjunction is irrelevant to any conversation had here.



The word "conjunction" is a word. "Its" is not. 
Let us therefore agree that the non-word "Its" is irrelevant to this discussion.


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> I do not consider jumping on people networking. Good for the goose, good for the gander. My original post was sticking up for the OP. and all the hillbilly hacks rallied against me. Mind you.. Questioning my abilities.. But never once adding anything of value that would lead me to believe there IS knowledge available here. Frankly im dissapointed in a site named "arboristsite"
> 
> And i certainly NEVER claimed this is a good platform for learning. The complete opposite, actually. Its gteat for honing useless debating skills.. Otherwise.. "little tikes/cabbage patch kids" arboriculture, is the general atmosphere around here.


Of course you did. "Isn't that the point of these forums?". 

Although your cause is admirable, it is reasonable to use discretion regarding the advice you give in tree care. Which is, for the most part, what happened here. You wouldn't give a specific answer as to how high you climb a particular tree. Because, who would ask that question? A homeowner? A kid? Someone trying to save a buck and do it themselves? Ever run through statistics? "Tree care" as it's labeled has a very high risk associated with it. What is the majority that experience tree care accidents?


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

Correction: "Its" is a word!
What does "Its censored" mean? What its? "Its" being a possessive pronoun (not a verb).


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> The word "conjunction" is a word. "Its" is not.
> Let us therefore agree that the non-word "Its" is irrelevant to this discussion.


As well as conjunction. Dumb dumb. Conjunctions are words connecting words in a sentence, like: "because, and, so" a CONTRACTION is im sure what you meant. Dont throw around enlish arguments when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Ps. I did not use CONTRACTIONS in this post either.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Correction: "Its" is a word!





Pelorus said:


> What does "Its censored" mean? What its? "Its" being a possessive pronoun (not a verb).


What? I told YOU it wasnt a verb. Hahaha. This is a riot. Keep on googling my friend. Read a grade school grammar book.

Im well aware of contractions and possesive pronouns. IT'S actually ITS' by the way. the apostrophe indicates ownership.


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

Acer, I'm still confused as to whether your question "_Its censored_?" is correct, as opposed to "_It's_ (it is) _censored_?" Both would seem to refer to the same "it". 
Please help me out here. Which "it" is it?


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

Pretty sure " its' " not cricket. 

edit: "_Possessive pronouns do not have apostrophes. That is because their spelling already indicates a possessive."_


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Pretty sure " its' " not cricket. Rarely used.


It is. And yes, you and all your cerebral prowess noticed, in typing out a paragraph, i'd forgotten an apostrophe. Congrats. My four year old niece probably would have caught that, too.


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

Are you saying "its'" not cricket, or that it's rarely used, or both?
Please clarify.


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

I don't think it's his life's mission to rid the world of improper english. I think pointing out grammatic errors is an easy way to insult his opponent on his quest for victory in "the bully games".


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Are you saying "its'" not cricket, or that it's rarely used, or both?
> Please clarify.



"Its not cricket" means nothing to me. Hold on, i'll try and find a can of paint thinner to huff.. See if i can't get down to your level.
Also.. Nice point to stick to. Especially after i've pointed out your vernacular leaves something to be desired.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

You guys all SPEAK english, right? Why butcher it? It's sad that this is what the united states finds acceptable. tsk tsk.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

As far as opponents go.. I haven't found any here. Everyone getting chirpy with me are the epitome of why americans are held in the regard they are w/ the rest of the world. Ignorance and pride goes down bitter.


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> As far as opponents go.. I haven't found any here. Everyone getting chirpy with me are the epitome of why americans are held in the regard they are w/ the rest of the world. Ignorance and pride goes down bitter.


You've made a fine example of Canadians... bravo


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

Those here old enough to remember a former U.S. president saying: "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is."
The "it" pertained to Monica. Not the Monica in Leonardo's painting; (the Monica Lisa) the other one.
This particular "it" is Acer's "it", and it is important to not get them confused.
I'm not sure how the meaning of "is" panned out for the prez.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Those here old enough to remember a former U.S. president saying: "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is."
> The "it" pertained to Monica. Not the Monica in Leonardo's painting; (the Monica Lisa) the other one.
> This particular "it" is Acer's "it", and it is important to not to get them confused.
> I'm not sure how the meaning of "is" panned out for the prez.


You make no sense. Mona lisa


Pelorus said:


> Those here old enough to remember a former U.S. president saying: "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is."
> The "it" pertained to Monica. Not the Monica in Leonardo's painting; (the Monica Lisa) the other one.
> This particular "it" is Acer's "it", and it is important to not to get them confused.
> I'm not sure how the meaning of "is" panned out for the prez.


That was an awful fractured, unintelligible verbal pile of vomit. I find no challenge in you people. This is boring me, now. Some one say something half smart.. Please. PLEASE.


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

Not the Mona Lisa. I'm referring of course to her lesser known sibling, Monica Lisa.


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## no tree to big (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> You guys all SPEAK english, right? Why butcher it? It's sad that this is what the united states finds acceptable. tsk tsk.


Ain't you spossed to be speaking Canadian or sumthin aye?


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

There's no quanity of challenges you can propose to me that i would fail that would differenciate from the quanity of challenges you would fail that i proposed. Come down from where you don't belong. You are completely transparent.


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

Acer, I want you to concede that "its'" is improper.
Concede, dammit.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Of course. Wow. You people are.. Uh.. Really cool. Thanks for the laughs, slick. Seriously though, brush up on your english. If i were you, i'd be embarassed.


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Acer, I want you to concede that "its'" is improper.
> Concede, dammit.


Or, that he cannot answer basic questions asked of him all the while attempting to "wow" us with his irrelevent, common questions.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Acer, I want you to concede that "its'" is improper.
> Concede, dammit.


I did. I admitted to forgetting an apostrophe. Check above posts.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

miko0618 said:


> Or, that he cannot answer basic questions asked of him all the while attempting to "wow" us with his irrelavent, common questions.


Wow you? Haha. Theres a severe lack of WOW around here. You seem to be the front runner. "quantity of failure differentiating from blah blah blah" weak, dude. That came off as a desperate attempt to prove youre well read.


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> I did. I admitted to forgetting an apostrophe. Check above posts.



I remain unsure whether an apostrophe is needed. In fact, I am considerably less sure now than then.
Hopeful that you neither be censored nor vacationed for "it".


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Wow you? Haha. Theres a severe lack of WOW around here. You seem to be the front runner. "quantity of failure differentiating from blah blah blah" weak, dude. That came off as a desperate attempt to prove youre well read.


I smell a loser.


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

acer-kid said:


> Wow you? Haha. Theres a severe lack of WOW around here. You seem to be the front runner. "quantity of failure differentiating from blah blah blah" weak, dude. That came off as a desperate attempt to prove youre well read.


Can't comprehend and can't answer basic questions. I'll see ya troll.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Ill concede. You masters of language and arboriculture have bested me. Rally the troops, hug the babies, kiss the wives and have a parade down main st. Hahaha. This has been the most sad/entertaining thread ive been a part of in a long time.


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## stihl sawing (Feb 25, 2015)

Ok guys this has gone way off topic, Lets get back on removal of the tree. This site is not and has never conducted a spelling bee. Not everyone is up on the grammar, me included.


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 25, 2015)

Could probably lock it up....the OP hasn't posted in a month


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Feb 25, 2015)

The op asked a question that I thought was answered properly by jomoco on the first page. The tree was simple to do and the op needed to hire a pro and watch. Anyone here could describe a half dozen ways to get that tree on the ground. Most people chose not to respond because we didn't want the op to climb that tree with our advice and do something stupid and get hurt or killed.


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> Good luck maybe say a prayer before u go up... seriously though what experience do u have?


Okay. Ill admit i got WAY out of control. However.. this is BAD, sarcastic advice. My original post was addressing this. I felt as if there was a lack of respect there. So no respect in return. I then immediately felt that i was starting to get ganged up on... And i tend to get my back up, and cut deep in those situations. Completely disrespectful by me, which basically makes me a hypocrite. Apologies to mods as well as some others. I know its a little late at this juncture, but **** it.


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> Ok guys this has gone way off topic, Lets get back on removal of the tree. This site is not and has never conducted a spelling bee. Not everyone is up on the grammar, me included.



removal of the tree? What tree?


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## stihl sawing (Feb 25, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> removal of the tree? What tree?


Read the first post.


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

I thought there might of had to have been another tree somewhere.
Apologies to all affected with hurt feelings.
edit: I want to apologize on behalf of that mean guy too (jefflovstrom)


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> I thought there might of had to have been another tree somewhere.
> Apologies to all affected with hurt feelings.


Lol. Ditto


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 25, 2015)

Acer we're really not bad people here, and i'm sure you aren't either. Forget it and we'll move on.[emoji106]


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

That's super cool man. Cheers


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## stihl sawing (Feb 25, 2015)

Ok.. big group hug. well ok maybe not.lol Thank you gentlemen for those last post.


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 25, 2015)

I'll shake hands, but i'm not hugging anyone[emoji1]


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Aw, common. Clearly i need a little action. Tension's running high.


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## Pelorus (Feb 25, 2015)

stihl sawing said:


> Thank you gentlemen for those last post.



last post(*s*)


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## acer-kid (Feb 25, 2015)

Ah jeeze.


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 25, 2015)

[emoji23]


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 25, 2015)

The end.


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## capetrees (Feb 25, 2015)

Well there's 5 minutes I'll never get back. Reading this thread was kinda like watching the Kardasian show. Mindless and useless.

And embarrassing to admit to.


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## miko0618 (Feb 25, 2015)

capetrees said:


> Well there's 5 minutes I'll never get back. Reading this thread was kinda like watching the Kardasian show. Mindless and useless.
> 
> And embarrassing to admit to.


Yet you refused to let it end by adding more mindless, useless comments...


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## capetrees (Feb 25, 2015)

said the pot calling the kettle black


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## acer-kid (Feb 26, 2015)

Pelorus said:


> Not the Mona Lisa. I'm referring of course to her lesser known sibling, Monica Lisa.




?


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## Zale (Feb 26, 2015)

Back to the OP. I would set up a biner with a strap and drop the top into it. Make sure you're groundsman takes a couple of wraps around the tree to reduce the friction.


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## acer-kid (Feb 26, 2015)

Zale said:


> Back to the OP. I would set up a biner with a strap and drop the top into it. Make sure you're groundsman takes a couple of wraps around the tree to reduce the friction.


Clever stuff.


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## coolhand850 (Mar 16, 2015)

dblack said:


> Question for all you other climbers about removals. Sorry the picture is poor I had someone take it while I was driving. If the homeowner asked me to remove that pine, how would I go about getting the top safely on the ground? I know up to the last 20 feet of the trunk, I could limb it with the handsaw and drop the branches in a controlled manner. My question is, what is the safest way to get the top 15 feet of the tree safely on the ground? To me, it looks too skinny and too brittle to climb really high. That is a lot of wood to just cut a notch and drop into the yard(and risk it not going the right way). My only thought is to use the pole pruner to take as many branches off over my head as possible(to minimize weight), then cut the top out of it. Is this something you guys would rig? My question is at what trunk diameter do you guys stop climbing for fear of it getting brittle and breaking out? And what is the plan of action for getting the top 15 feet of the tree safely on the ground without damaging anything or getting hurt. I know with a bucket truck this would be easy. I also know that you can either rig sections of the trunk down or do snap cuts so I am pretty comfortable with that. But how to get the top 15 feet out of the tree safely really has me stumped. Let me know if I can clarify anything. Thanks for the replies in advance. View attachment 396704


Remove all the branches on the right side of the tree, until all that is remaining is the narrow top 15 feet you are unsure about. Tie in with your climbing line right below the top section. Try and cut as many branches as you feel safe reaching up for with a handsaw (sugoi/ibuki etc) or if u have a long manual pole saw even better. Remove only the limbs on the side opposite of where you are going to pull the top. Remove the weight on the side you will be making your back cut. Get your rigging line up in that cluster of branches at a distance slightly closer to the very top than where you will be making your cut. Make sure your ground guy goes out a good distance with the line more horizontal than vertical so he can pull it out and not down. Make an open face notch for it falls away clean, and try to keep it from hinging/splitting as best you can. Secure yourself to your perch, and tell the groundman to continuously keep steady pressure and pull it off. You will be fine. The top will be light enough to pose any problems. You can tie the top from where u r at of course if you can manage to get working end to come down to you. ome throwline up w/you and use a running bowline to tie your rigging line to the top. You can use a rope snap/hook or carabiner instead of the running bowline if u want. Just attach either u choose to the working end with a buntline, anchor hitch, or double fish knot and clip your biner to the standing part. The groundman can help you pull it up taut. Good Luck, and if u feel uncertain remove yhe right side limbs and come down and think it over. U just need to remove enough weight from the top on the opposite side you want it to fall. No problem. U can take a wedge but it is unneccessary, it looks skinny. When it starts to go shut your saw off immediately. U could perhaps finish the backcut w your handsaw, but that cut needs to be made without pause.


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