# Workers comp



## since16 (Jun 29, 2015)

So I've been in business for awhile full time over 1 yr always 2mil liability insurance every vehicle chipper saw has full coverage theft exct. I've always hired family and friends but need to find another guy who won't b. Looked into workers comp thru the company that does all my other insurance was quoted 26% and 5k down just to finish out the year! I'm doing all the climbing was wondering what company people are going thru and what is a good rate. I want to get it but if that's the cost It's gonna b a problem


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## ATH (Jun 29, 2015)

That is the cost. I don't know NE law, but in most states, if you don't have Worker's comp, that is going to be a problem.

Oh, and to answer your question more directly, I get it from the State of Ohio...that is our only option being in a monopolistic State.


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## since16 (Jun 30, 2015)

I thought they were just telling me to f off.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 30, 2015)

26% of what?

Can you run a tree service under agriculture? Maybe different elsewhere but here it removes alot of rules for having workers.


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## treecutterjr (Jun 30, 2015)

That is the cost. Like 32% in ky

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## treecutterjr (Jun 30, 2015)

Gotta go through state here too. Not many companies want to insure tree work. Too risky

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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 30, 2015)

Yeah I know it's the cost, but it's 26% of what number?


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## treecutterjr (Jun 30, 2015)

Payroll 

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## ATH (Jul 1, 2015)

treecutterjr said:


> Gotta go through state here too. Not many companies want to insure tree work. Too risky


No, you don't HAVE to buy it from the State in KY - you are allowed to buy it from a private insurer. It is law that employers in Ohio must buy coverage from the State (Washington, ND, Wyoming are the others then WV...allows for a single insurance company to sell)


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## ATH (Jul 1, 2015)

treecutterjr said:


> Payroll
> .


Yep...that is how worker's comp works!


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## treecutterjr (Jul 1, 2015)

We've only got 1 other place besides KEMi that'll take tree services. Every one else says they don't cover tree service. Too high risk

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## treecutterjr (Jul 1, 2015)

But correct we don't HAVE to get it from the state. We just have very limited options

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## fordf150 (Jul 1, 2015)

Look into safety training and drug testing. Former employer of mine had 1 claim on workers comp. They raised the rate to 36% IIRC. He contemplated moving us from payroll to 1099 subcontractors. Eventually signed up for safety training, drug abuse training, and quarterly random drug testing for 50% of employees. Lowered the rate to high teens. Training seminars amounted to a couple days a year spent in a classroom and many trips to job and family services to poss in a cup. Might be worth looking into. Or look into going to 1099. Most tree services around me 1099 their guys.


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## Philbert (Jul 1, 2015)

In Minnesota the fine is something like $1,000, per employee, per week if you do not have worker's compensation insurance. Not sure if family members are exempt, but your friends are not. If you 'hire' someone, but call them a 'contractor', they can still come after you - there are very specific criteria to be verified as 'independent'. You may want to check with a WC lawyer in your state.

Philbert


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## ATH (Jul 2, 2015)

Not only will worker's comp come after you...they will be the easy ones to deal with once the IRS shows up.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 3, 2015)

stay out of california,,,,
Jeff


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## Jed1124 (Jul 3, 2015)

26% is a good rate. Try 34-41% in CT


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## Griff93 (Jul 8, 2015)

I'd love to get 26%. We aren't required to have it here in Alabama. The last quote I got was 54%. When everybody else in our area doesn't have that cost, it's hard to afford it.


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## Philbert (Jul 8, 2015)

People who complain about the rates have to remember that it's their industry that sets them. Office workers don't pay those types of rates, because they don't fall out of trees on a regular basis. That's also why landscapers and even carpenters pay less. 

If you don't carry it, you are putting your business (and maybe your personal assets) on the line. Personal injury lawyers are good at piercing the protection of corporate or LLC status if they can show that the company was 'undercapitalized' or avoided 'due diligence'. As for the 'independent contractor' thing, the lawyers also have a saying (this one was for roofers): "Most guys are _independent contractors_ on the roof, but become _employees_ on the way down".

It's something that you can use to promote and distinguish your company, by letting people know that you are 'fully insured'.

I carry work comp on myself, even though I am not required (owner/sole employee) because I go into some harzardous places, and know that I am covered even when driving back and forth between work sites, etc.

Philbert


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## ATH (Jul 8, 2015)

Slight correction: rates are set by the schmucks who don't follow safety protocol and the rest of us are stuck paying for their stupidity.


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## Philbert (Jul 8, 2015)

ATH said:


> Slight correction: rates are set by the schmucks who don't follow safety protocol and the rest of us are stuck paying for their stupidity.


Actually, it is everyone. The guys who follow all the protocols can still get hurt. The schmucks, as noted. The cheats who fake injuries and cheat the system. And the jerks who don't care about their employees, and shrug, "That's what I have insurance for!". You all are in the same 'pool'.

If your state allows experience modifications, a company can reduce their rates after about 4 years of work experience.

Philbert


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 8, 2015)

The guys on ladders with Wild Things set the prices.


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## ATH (Jul 10, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Actually, it is everyone. The guys who follow all the protocols can still get hurt. The schmucks, as noted. The cheats ....
> Philbert


Agreed - accidents do happen. That is why even office workers are covered by worker's comp. But you have a pretty good list there of folks who really screw things up!


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## Ikeholt (Nov 29, 2015)

Hey Philbert, you might want to look into that paying Workmen Comp as an owner. Friend of mine is a land surveyor, sole employee, paid WC thinking it was the right thing to do. They took his money without compliant for years. Then he filed a claim, they told him WC is only to protect employees. He said he was an employee of his own company. That didn't work either, they claim there is too much fraud with an owner filing a claim.


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## Philbert (Nov 29, 2015)

That's when you need a lawyer . . .

Philbert


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