# Tree falls on bystander



## TreeLady (Mar 13, 2006)

Here is the link to the artilce, I'm sure there will be more details soon.

http://www.wdtn.com/dsp_story.cfm?storyid=30923


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## appalachianarbo (Mar 13, 2006)

> Crews at the scene estimated the three may have weighed as much as 1000 pounds.



???? That tree in the picture is a wee bit more than that!

Keep your kill zones clear - all the way around!


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## clearance (Mar 13, 2006)

appalachianarbo said:


> ???? That tree in the picture is a wee bit more than that!
> 
> Keep your kill zones clear - all the way around!


Lets not rush to judgement and start blaming the tree guys, this victim was talking as they took him away, good. Many people are full on retarded when it comes to treework, it seems that you need a few security guards around to club them. Tree huggers often run right up under trees being cut, while the groundman is busy chipping brush. Hey, a screaming chainsaw, chunks of wood hitting the ground, guys with hardhats, is that enough of a clue to bystanders that they should be carefull?


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## Jumper (Mar 14, 2006)

I have had people get downright miserable when I asked them politely to move away from a job site. The second time not so polite, and the third time, well you get the picture. My boss uses the same technique. Some people just figure it is their God given right to be there, and won't listen to reason, let alone figure out that the situation is hazardous on their own.


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## P_woozel (Mar 14, 2006)

Clearance, who else would you hold resposible for safe and successful completion of the job? The mailman? Regardless of the situation if anyone gets hurt on the jobsite, the contractor has a role in it. Keeping the worksite clear for each evolution is the sole responsibilty of those who are performing the work. If the job must be halted until clear so be it. This whole idea of blaming people that display idiot behaivior is itself a bigger problem.


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## clearance (Mar 14, 2006)

P_woozel said:


> This whole idea of blaming people that display idiot behaivior is itself a bigger problem.


And that statement, Mr. Woozel, illustrates reasoning that continues the ongoing slide of western civilization.


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## LightningLoader (Mar 14, 2006)

Whatever happened to people being responsible for themselves???


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## Jumper (Mar 15, 2006)

In today's legal climate it always seems to be someone else's fault. Not right but true.


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## notahacker (Mar 15, 2006)

I don't know about y'all, but I am going to learn from this and protect my work area, drop zone, and kill zone better. I have heard of too much of this crap lately. I don't want to hurt anyone.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Mar 15, 2006)

LightningLoader said:


> Whatever happened to people being responsible for themselves???




Lawyers.



But on the other hand, was the drop zone properly protected here? Doesn't sound like it. It's not reasonable to expect your average Joe (or Jane) to be able to estimate where a tree might fall if it goes the wrong way. That's YOUR responsibility - you are the pro.

I'm not a pro, so I might wind up on a jury which will decide if you pay out the wazoo or not. Here's how I look at it:


If Joe Dead Bozo walked past a plain marker to get to where he got his head bashed in with your tree, he's at fault. The more clear the marker, the more it's his fault. He went past a row of cones, better yet a tape barrier? It's on him. You'll pay nothing if I have my way.



What? Your "sign" was a hand scribbled note on a piece of paper? Or your groundman was supposed to stop anybody who got too close, but he was busy handling brush? I'll *hang *you. 


Signs & cones cost good money, I know. But marking tape is dirt cheap, gentlemen. There's no excuse for not using it to cordon off ALL of the potential drop zone.


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## clearance (Mar 15, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Lawyers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mark, have you been doing utility work cutting down trees beside the road and the sidewalk is your only available drop zone? How about this, many signs (proper road signs in stands) crew& equip, treework ahead, sidewalk closed, area closed tree falling, etc.,qualified flag girls for traffic control, a dozen cones at least, Sidewalk coned off with extra signs, flag girls aware the sidewalk is closed and stopping traffic to let people use the sidewalk on the other side of the street. And you still have morons who try and walk right into the drop zone, and get ignorant with you, cause "I pay taxes, I can walk anywhere I want, you can't tell me....I,I,I," Some people are just asking for a big block in the head, they step over cones, past signs, tape will not stop these idiots.


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## appalachianarbo (Mar 15, 2006)

> flag girls



You mean flag _people_? I know some awesome female climbers.


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## clearance (Mar 15, 2006)

appalachianarbo said:


> You mean flag _people_? I know some awesome female climbers.


OK, you pc freak, slap me, there used to be "lineman" here in BC, pc turned the same guys into "powerline technicians". Flag girls are now known as "traffic control persons", sue me, take me to the human rights commision, the labour board, call the newspapers, bfd.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Mar 15, 2006)

clearance said:


> Mark, have you been doing utility work cutting down trees beside the road and the sidewalk is your only available drop zone? How about this, many signs (proper road signs in stands) crew& equip, treework ahead, sidewalk closed, area closed tree falling, etc.,qualified flag girls for traffic control, a dozen cones at least, Sidewalk coned off with extra signs, flag girls aware the sidewalk is closed and stopping traffic to let people use the sidewalk on the other side of the street. And you still have morons who try and walk right into the drop zone, and get ignorant with you, cause "I pay taxes, I can walk anywhere I want, you can't tell me....I,I,I," Some people are just asking for a big block in the head, they step over cones, past signs, tape will not stop these idiots.




No sir, tape won't stop these idiots. I know that. You don't have to convince me. You don't even have to TELL me!


Tape WILL stop me (if I'm on your jury) from finding you at fault. If it has the same effect on a simple majority of your jury, I'd say it has paid for itself, wouldn't you?


Sometimes there's just not enough that any human can do to keep stupid people from getting themselves hurt.

So you do your best, and CYA.


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## woodchux (Mar 15, 2006)

Our insurance policy states that we must tape off the work zone.

If not.... they won't pay on an accident.


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## appalachianarbo (Mar 16, 2006)

> OK, you pc freak, slap me, there used to be "lineman" here in BC, pc turned the same guys into "powerline technicians". Flag girls are now known as "traffic control persons", sue me, take me to the human rights commision, the labour board, call the newspapers, bfd.



HAHAHA...Ignorance makes me laugh...HAHAHA


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## geofore (Mar 16, 2006)

*residential work*

Working with people is at times nuts. Even with the police there to direct traffic I had a lady pull up (on the sidewalk)and stop (park her car) next to a tree that was already cut (notched) on one side to fall. Only to ask, "Why are you cutting down that beautifull tree?" All stop while the policeman spent the next 5 miniutes talking her into moving her car. The tree had dropped a limb through a cars windshield (owner worked for the Magistrate) the night before. Then the neighbors son on another job (9 yr old mind) wrapped in a 17 yr old body (mentally challenged) heard the saws and came to have a look see. Walked under the tree. Alert homeowner grabbed him and walked him a safe distance away. Grounman was ineffective. Homeowner knew the kid. 
Tape/cones and traffic control may help and then there are times when it doesn't. Staying alert to what's happening around you without being distracted is a very tough job part of the job. The longer you're at this the more crazies you're likely going to see. Not everyone uses common sense. Like the guy in the Humvee last week drives through the limbs, on the street, while the crew is cutting them up. Wind had blown a tree over the phone lines, man in the boom facing away from the Humvee cutting limbs loose. Ground crew dashes to get out of the way of the oncoming Humvee. 
Try as you may you're not going to get cooperation from everyone. I don't do utility work but I've seen my share of crazies out there.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Mar 16, 2006)

I guess you don't understand it, geofore. If he's got a Humvee, he's _*INVINCIBLE*_!

He doesn't have to stop for branches. He doesn't have to stop for flags. He doesn't have to stop for....


*OUCH!* 

Well, I guess he DOES have to stop for 10,000 lbs of oak tree dropping on his head!


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## johnstr1 (Mar 18, 2006)

Hello from the UK.

I have to agree there are some people who "simply will not be inconvenienced or delayed" by your operation and will do anything to get where they want to go. I've had people duck under said tape when we've used it, dodged past us when we have tried to physically bar their way (can't touch 'em though, that's assault), been completely oblivious to the noise, signs, cones and blokes in fancy dress outfits, then verbally abused us when they have been showered with debris. The number of visually and audibly "challenged" people is growing. Must be summat in the water. 

 

TJ


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## clearance (Mar 18, 2006)

johnstr1 said:


> Hello from the UK.
> 
> I have to agree there are some people who "simply will not be inconvenienced or delayed" by your operation and will do anything to get where they want to go. I've had people duck under said tape when we've used it, dodged past us when we have tried to physically bar their way (can't touch 'em though, that's assault), been completely oblivious to the noise, signs, cones and blokes in fancy dress outfits, then verbally abused us when they have been showered with debris. The number of visually and audibly "challenged" people is growing. Must be summat in the water.
> 
> ...


Hi, welcome, glad the tards just aren't here.


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## jmack (Mar 19, 2006)

*flag girls*



appalachianarbo said:


> You mean flag _people_? I know some awesome female climbers.


dont knock the flag chicks there are awsome they slow down the traffic and keep things running smooth especially if there hot. they keep it calm on the roads and whos going to get mad at a cute chick directing traffic


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## jmack (Mar 19, 2006)

*traffic*



geofore said:


> Working with people is at times nuts. Even with the police there to direct traffic I had a lady pull up (on the sidewalk)and stop (park her car) next to a tree that was already cut (notched) on one side to fall. Only to ask, "Why are you cutting down that beautifull tree?" All stop while the policeman spent the next 5 miniutes talking her into moving her car. The tree had dropped a limb through a cars windshield (owner worked for the Magistrate) the night before. Then the neighbors son on another job (9 yr old mind) wrapped in a 17 yr old body (mentally challenged) heard the saws and came to have a look see. Walked under the tree. Alert homeowner grabbed him and walked him a safe distance away. Grounman was ineffective. Homeowner knew the kid.
> Tape/cones and traffic control may help and then there are times when it doesn't. Staying alert to what's happening around you without being distracted is a very tough job part of the job. The longer you're at this the more crazies you're likely going to see. Not everyone uses common sense. Like the guy in the Humvee last week drives through the limbs, on the street, while the crew is cutting them up. Wind had blown a tree over the phone lines, man in the boom facing away from the Humvee cutting limbs loose. Ground crew dashes to get out of the way of the oncoming Humvee.
> Try as you may you're not going to get cooperation from everyone. I don't do utility work but I've seen my share of crazies out there.


logs inside cones, tight cone zone yesterday a spazz didnt like it so he patch and sped through the work zone. stop sign on a stick is helpful kkep the plates if they pass you they just ran a stop sign, pass it on and do what you got to do.


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## PWB (Mar 19, 2006)

Done some "traffic control" on roadwork, lots of people don't pay attention. More than one vehicle has a BIG scape down the side from ignoring the the "STOP" paddle. One of my "superiors" claimed he used to carry a hammer...... The flagman(person?) HAS to protect the guys in the work area....... Stop sign in front of their face (windshield) usually gets their attention. Had them drive passt signs, around the wrong side of cones on gravel instead of where they should be on pavement.... (80 kmh roads)


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## BlueRidgeMark (Mar 19, 2006)

jmack said:


> dont knock the flag chicks there are awsome they slow down the traffic and keep things running smooth especially if there hot. they keep it calm on the roads and whos going to get mad at a cute chick directing traffic




 In my Army days, there was an MP who manned (?) the south gate to our post and slowed traffic just by standing there. You can imagine she had to be something special if she could do that while wearing fatigues!


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## Treeblitzer (Mar 20, 2006)

It doesn't`t matter how much safety you have out. Sighs,Cones,Marking Tape .There are still stupid people out there that just chose to ignore or say that they didn't see it. We were doing a Locust removal down by a hospital. We had all of safety stuff out,I was just getting ready to drop the top when my Trimmer yelled up at me to stop. I looked down to see this gut dressed in a white lad coat duck under our taped off area a not even look up.I yelled down at him and asked him who he was,He looked up and told me he was a surgeon. Well that cracked me up ,so I asked him if it was ok to plant this log on him. The guy copped a attitude ,so I did the only thing I could think of at the moment.Started the 044 ,That got him running You would think a doctor would be a little bit smarter than that.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Mar 20, 2006)

Treeblitzer said:


> That got him running


  





Treeblitzer said:


> You would think a doctor would be a little bit smarter than that.




Only if you haven't been around doctors much. Talk to some nurses - the only thing bigger than a doctor's paycheck is his ego.

And lots of them are downright STUPID.


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## Asa (Mar 27, 2006)

geofore said:


> Working with people is at times nuts. Even with the police there to direct traffic I had a lady pull up (on the sidewalk)and stop (park her car) next to a tree that was already cut (notched) on one side to fall. Only to ask, "Why are you cutting down that beautifull tree?" All stop while the policeman spent the next 5 miniutes talking her into moving her car. The tree had dropped a limb through a cars windshield (owner worked for the Magistrate) the night before. Then the neighbors son on another job (9 yr old mind) wrapped in a 17 yr old body (mentally challenged) heard the saws and came to have a look see. Walked under the tree. Alert homeowner grabbed him and walked him a safe distance away. Grounman was ineffective. Homeowner knew the kid.
> Tape/cones and traffic control may help and then there are times when it doesn't. Staying alert to what's happening around you without being distracted is a very tough job part of the job. The longer you're at this the more crazies you're likely going to see. Not everyone uses common sense. Like the guy in the Humvee last week drives through the limbs, on the street, while the crew is cutting them up. Wind had blown a tree over the phone lines, man in the boom facing away from the Humvee cutting limbs loose. Ground crew dashes to get out of the way of the oncoming Humvee.
> Try as you may you're not going to get cooperation from everyone. I don't do utility work but I've seen my share of crazies out there.


I can only agree some people just dont care. Especially cyclists have a tendency to sneak past cones undetected I find. I was grounding for my boss, had a coned off area, including signs and tape. This cyclist decided to just sneak trough. Didnt see him till he was already in the dropzone, I shouted just as my boss dropped a heavy limb. It missed him with maybe a metre, and he just biked on as nothing happened.. 

On one other memorable occasion the very homeowner we were working for decided to come and ask us for some extras, approaching us from just in front of the tree we just put a gob in.. Saw her just as he was about to start the backcut..

Despite all this I do agree tho it is ultimately ours -the pros- job to keep bystanders as safe as possible even if some of them dont seem to care too much themselves at times. :greenchainsaw:


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## murphy4trees (Mar 27, 2006)

I had cut a notch and plunge cut for a back release on a heavy front leaning medium sized Norway Maple this afternoon, and came down to get the camera and take a few pictures when the customer showed up out of no where and started walking right under the tree with his 5 year old daughter hand in hand... 

the chipper was runnig in the backround so no verbal communication was possible... I started waving my arms and hands frantically.... he thought I was just waving high at first. later after i dropped the piece he told me that when I started cutting the little girl wanted to move even further back.. Apparently she had more sense than him. The site was under construction... I hadn't seen anyone there all day til I looked up and there he was walking right into the kill zone.


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## BoesTreeService (Mar 28, 2006)

Both sides of the argument are right. People are idiots and will enter the drops zones. But - Its our job to protect our drop zones from these people. Just because some of them will ignore all our signs, cones, and even step over scene tape-doesn't excuse us from using all of them. Those majority of people who will abide by our warnings deserve them, in spite of the idiots who won't. And I'm sure the legal ramifications of these measures will CYA.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Mar 28, 2006)

I think you nailed it, Boe.


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