# New Chip Truck: What to Buy



## Nickrosis (Sep 1, 2004)

So we're buying two chip trucks. Here are some of the options:

*Used Penske Trucks*
Pros: All automatics. As cheap as $5500 for gas engines. Cheap for diesels, too. Sold cab and chassis so we could move our chip boxes onto them. Heard great things about them from other tree companies.
Cons: Trucks have 100k miles on them. We would have to repaint them. Most of what we would want is in the $20,000 range.

*New Ford F-650*
Pros: New vehicle/warranty. Cost isn't much more than a used truck. Comes in the color we want anyways. 6 engines to choose from.
Cons: Our F-550 has 4,000 miles and 3 transmission repairs. About $15,000 more.

*New Chevy 6500 Kodiak*
Pros: New vehicle/warranty. Cost isn't much more than a used truck. Comes in the color we want anyways. Acclaimed Duramax diesel/Allison transmission combination.
Cons: Local dealers don't provide comprehensive service for commercial trucks.

*New GMC 6500 Top Kick*
Same as Chevy but costs more.

*Go Big with a Sterling/International/etc.*

And finally, do you think we should stop trying to stay under CDL? It's a goofy game in the end because a truck rated at 26,000 lbs. can't pull a trailer and stay under CDL. We'd need like a 16,000 GVWR in order to pull a 10,000 GVWR trailer.


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## treeman82 (Sep 1, 2004)

Over here, as soon as you go over a 550 you need a Class C. Class C is good from 18,000 - 26,000 lbs. Over 26,000 is Class B. Might as well go with a CDL truck if you are going to overload the 26,000 pounders anyways.


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## Toddppm (Sep 2, 2004)

Not considering a cabover or 4500 or 5500 chevy?
Although I think the Chevy's may be in the same class as the F550 , too under built for the job.


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## NeTree (Sep 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by treeman82 _
> *Over here, as soon as you go over a 550 you need a Class C. Class C is good from 18,000 - 26,000 lbs. Over 26,000 is Class B. Might as well go with a CDL truck if you are going to overload the 26,000 pounders anyways. *




Huh??


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## treeman82 (Sep 2, 2004)

F550 has a 17,500 lb GVW. That is pretty much as high as you can go with a regular liscense. Between the GVW's of 18,000 lbs and 26,000 lbs you need a class C commercial driver's liscense. Over 26,000 lbs you need a class B, however you can't pull a trailer with a GVW of over 10,000 lbs with a class B. For that size trailer, you need a class A.

Getting a 26,000 lb truck is going to give you a large body most likely. Odds are that you will go well overload on a truck that size when loaded with chips or wood. Cops around here LOVE to stop trucks and find problems with weights, or lights, or what have you. So, you might as well get a 33,000 lb GVW truck and stay within your legal weight limit.


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## NeTree (Sep 2, 2004)

Are you sure that info is current? Not breaking your balls, but the whole CDL system is FEDERAL, not STATE standards.

Just curious why NY would be different... (besides the obvious  )


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## Stumper (Sep 5, 2004)

Nick, Your 'best' answer may lie in some on the Japanese industrial trucks.You can probably get The capacity you want under CDL weight even with a big trailer.
Truth is that chips aren't terribly heavy for their bulk ( chip size determines how tight they pack so chippers that make little chips put more tree on the truck). I like my International 1654 and it does make a good advertizing billboard but I could haul as many chips on an extended frame 1 ton(and get into tighter places). If I had the money to do whatever I wanted I thing I'd look at a forestry body on an F450. Get a wood hauling trailer that is rated for 9500lbs (I'd build precisely what I want (or have it Fabbed). Keep it all in size categories that the DOT doesn't even look at and put it to work.:angel:


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## a_lopa (Sep 5, 2004)

hino,isuzu 500,000miles no worries,with good fuel economy,i wouldnt touch any of the above


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## Pacific (Sep 6, 2004)

Alot of the tree guys here have 1 ton trucks for chip trucks the tree trim guys with the buckets and chip box then they have a 5 ton truck. If your going with a straight chip box you may want togo with a F-550 or one of those GMC Coe 2 ton trucks. You start getting into a 5 ton truck then you have troubles getting into residential areas.

A F-550 can easily handle a 8000lb payload I have put 10,000lbs on a F-550. I have a feeling 8000lbs worth of chips= quite a few yards you would have to chip alot of tree's in one day to get 8000lbs.

You make the bottom half of the dump box out of steel and the upper structure out of aluminum to save some weight.


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## Nickrosis (Sep 6, 2004)

I don't like our F-550. It has 5000 miles on it, and the transmission is being replaced this week. They found all kinds of transmission parts when they looked at the filter.  First year experiments.... 

The F-550 is just too light duty for my tastes. I'd rather get something bulkier for pulling around a big Morbark or a big New Holland loader. We're getting a quote from our International dealer on a new truck and used options.


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## NeTree (Sep 6, 2004)

Just get a coupla L9000's with Cat motors and 13sp road-rangers and be done with it.

Real work trucks don't need a sissy-matic. Neither do real drivers.


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## Nickrosis (Sep 6, 2004)

I'm turned off to Fords for the time being. They need a miracle truck to change my mind.


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## NeTree (Sep 6, 2004)

Nick, what did you expect? You've got heavy trucks with autos trying to do what should be done with a stick. Why the automatics, anyways? Can't any of your employees drive a stick? Or is that really a lost art with kids these days?

Don't blame Ford. You underspec'd the trucks, plain and simple.

Go with heavier CDL trucks. Yes, you'll have alot more paperwork to do, but you're literate, so that shouldn't be a problem.


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## NeTree (Sep 6, 2004)

By the way, I noticed you didn't have International as an option.


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## treeman82 (Sep 6, 2004)

When I was at Hartney Greymont a couple of years ago, they only had manuals in their trucks. Also, all of their trucks except for 1 or 2 were over CDL, so therefore all drivers there have a CDL and as such they all know how to drive sticks. I believe that they have 1 or 2 F550's, but I forget what they are used for. They used to use all Ford's and 1 Mack for the heavy work. They have a couple of UD's for PHC work. Now for some reason they are starting to switch over to International.


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## kevintree (Sep 7, 2004)

*auto/stick*

The yonger guys coming into the field either have no license or

no idea how to drive a stick. SO the next truck will have a heavy duty auto tran.

Just my thoughts

Kevin


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## rahtreelimbs (Sep 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> * Can't any of your employees drive a stick? Or is that really a lost art with kids these days? *




You got that right!!!


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## Nickrosis (Sep 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *Nick, what did you expect? You've got heavy trucks with autos trying to do what should be done with a stick. Why the automatics, anyways? Can't any of your employees drive a stick? Or is that really a lost art with kids these days?
> 
> Don't blame Ford. You underspec'd the trucks, plain and simple.
> ...


Another rant....

The F-550 weighs 16,500 plus some water: 550 gal in 4 tanks...never fully loaded. Usually carried about 300 gallons: 2400 lbs. That's within specs. A tranny at 4,000 miles? Outta the question.

Automatics are the way to go. You may like stick, and that's fine. But what does it have over automatics? The autos don't have clutches to wear out, and the Allison's last and last. 

Anyways, we have a 2004 International 4300 466 parked out front that we're deliberating over. It's GVWR is 25,999....still CDL because of air brakes. It's got the goodies like AC and a CD player plus an on-site repair warranty. Lots to think about.


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## Nickrosis (Sep 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *By the way, I noticed you didn't have International as an option. *


It's been there the whole time.


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## NeTree (Sep 7, 2004)

Nick, if it's under 26K, air brakes are irrelevent.


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## NeTree (Sep 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> *
> Automatics are the way to go. You may like stick, and that's fine. But what does it have over automatics? The autos don't have clutches to wear out, and the Allison's last and last.
> 
> *



Wrong. Automatics have MULTITUDES of clutches.

A stick will last longer by sheer simplicity.

Not a rant, Nick, just an experienced observation. I agree that 4k is BULLSH!T! Are you certain the tranny wasn't hammered?


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## Xtra (Sep 7, 2004)

Nick,
Try looking at an Isuzu FRR/Chevy W6/6500 cab overs (all basically the same truck)
- 200hp turbo diesel
- Allison auto trans
- Great turning radius
- 19,500lbs
- Air assisted hydraulic brakes

NPR/W4/4500 are a little too weak for chips and a large chipper.

I have a FRR with a 14' bed and tow a 8,500# Morbark chipper with no problems. (yeah, fully loaded with chips it's in the CDL territory)

I've built about a dozen dump bodies on Isuzu/Chevy cab overs (for both woodchips and grass). They are bulletproof, but don't get a standard trans unless the guy knows how to use it . . . we learned the hard way and converted all ours to autos.

A 14' long, 50" high bed will hold about 6 tons of wood chips.
(we've used W6/6500 Chevys with 30 yard bodies and hauled 10 tons of grass and a large vacuum for years with no problems.

NY has a different requirement than NJ for CDL.
In Jersey CDL is under 26k, or combined truck and trailer under 26k (but the truck can't be under 10k). Also in NJ you don't need a CDL for air brakes if the truck is under 26k.

Whatever you chose make sure you have a good electric brake controller (especially for those quick & panic stops).

While at the ISA convention in Pittsburgh, most of the chip body fabricators told me they could add a body (hoist & labor included) for under $12k.


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## NeTree (Sep 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> * and the Allison's last and last.
> 
> *



You got that right. It's the only slushbox to have in a big truck.


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## NeTree (Sep 7, 2004)

*"slushbox"


Old-timer slang for an automatic tranny... 
Figured you kids might have a hard time with that one.


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## Pacific (Sep 8, 2004)

No Alisons are junk if you want a fully automated transmission you gotta look at Fuller/Roadranger transmission. Alison transmission crap out so easy it may not in a very light gvw truck (26,000lbs). If you do get a truck with a juicer then get a good exhaust brake or a Telma brake installed if you want the trucks brakes to last.

Lets put it this way when the juicer blows up it will cost you 10,000-15,000 to replace it. You will see a increased cost in replacing brakes because they will wear out faster. 

If a person can't drive a medium duty with a fully syncromeshed 6spd then I don't think they should be driving a truck at all. Like I said a 26,000lb gvw is a 3 ton truck in this area thats light duty.


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## Proj Eng (Sep 8, 2004)

How about a Unimog with a chipbox or towing a chip/dumpbox combo trailer?

I only mentioned a Unimog because I really want to take one through some trails some day.

...found a picture, might be well over the weights you specified though. gonna have to post it on the next one.


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## Proj Eng (Sep 8, 2004)

nevermind the rail wheels on it.


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## Proj Eng (Sep 8, 2004)

Now put this with the previous (picture) units chipper attachment and it's complete. Nothing to tow!


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 8, 2004)

Man, those darn things look _COOL!_ 

I want one!

Uh, in a different color! With subwoofers!


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## NeTree (Sep 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pacific _
> *
> If a person can't drive a medium duty with a fully syncromeshed 6spd then I don't think they should be driving a truck at all. Like I said a 26,000lb gvw is a 3 ton truck in this area thats light duty. *



You ain't kiddin'.


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## Nickrosis (Sep 9, 2004)

I've thought about the cab-overs, but I doubt that will be the next purchase...

We've had dealers dancing through our shop all week with truck after truck. It's great.  We tell them we want one in a different color, and he brings a red one. We say it needs 4-wheel-drive, and he comes back in a couple of hours with one. 

Anyways, we're looking at 2000 Freightliners with 120k for $29k, 2004 Internationals (4300 w/466) for $35k, and others. For a smaller truck, we've looked at a 2001 Chevy 3500 with a telescoping dump with 22k for $28k. We'll talk him down. 

All automatics.


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## John Stewart (Sep 9, 2004)

Hey Nick
Do you southern boy's have Hino down there!
If you do check it out 3yr/1 000 000 km
warranty
Yep 1 million k that is pretty good!
They used to be just cab over but the North American market doesn't like cab over so the have gone conventional in this area!
Check them out, we did but it came down to a sweet deal on a 4900 International with a Hiab and we couldn't pass up on it!
No regrets great truck as well, no problems so far!
Touch wood and with that said you know who I'll blame if I run into some bad luck! 
Later
John


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## Nickrosis (Sep 11, 2004)

Went shopping this week and bought this truck for $28,000. It has 23k miles on it - a 2001 Chevy 3500.

We'll use it for mulch and firewood, etc. We'll also make a chip box for it within a couple of weeks.


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## Nickrosis (Sep 11, 2004)

The dealer also brought around some other trucks to consider. Here's a 2004 Ford F-750 to replace our now defunct F-700. He's selling in the mid 30's...we said no thanks.


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## Nickrosis (Sep 11, 2004)

Side view....it would be the right length for our old Asplundh box.


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## Nickrosis (Sep 11, 2004)

Here's one nice part about it, though. Cat diesel coupled with the Allison automatic.


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## Nickrosis (Sep 11, 2004)

And finally, the 2004 International 4300 with the DT466E engine. Also has an Allison automatic. The list price is $64,000, but the incentives take an eye-popping $20,000 off of that...plus delivery, they want $46,000 for it. Great truck to drive! GVWR of 25,999 lbs., ABS airbrakes, computer screen for a dashboard, terrific mirrors, tight turning radius - I liked it a lot.

Our new shop's in the background.  I like it a lot, too.

Realistically, we're looking for a new F-650 or Chevy/GMC 6500 in the mid thirties.


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## a_lopa (Sep 11, 2004)

have you looked at any hino's nick


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## Nickrosis (Sep 11, 2004)

Like I said, I've thought about cab-overs, but I don't they would sell with the guy pulling the purchasing trigger.  Maybe down the road. I really like them for mowing crews - you can put all the lawnmowers on the back quite easily, but our setup now is in a covered trailer - which works great for year-round storage, protection, and security.


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## a_lopa (Sep 11, 2004)

i like the chev nick,big consideration with guys having to get in and out all day long being low to the ground


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## treeman82 (Sep 11, 2004)

Nick, a big chip box on that truck will put it WAY overload when full. You know, they do make larger cab overs. The freak of nature used to have one. The truck was very nice to drive because you could see exactly where you were going, and the turn radius was great. The only thing I didn't like about the truck was that to get into the cab you had to do some climbing.


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## glens (Sep 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> *Went shopping this week and bought this truck for $28,000. It has 23k miles on it - a 2001 Chevy 3500.*


I don't understand the reason for putting the rear axle so far to the rear, unless maybe it's for enabling a greater tongue weight.&nbsp; I don't think I've seen a truck like that around here that hasn't got bent frame rails right behind the cab; usually in the first season of use.

Be careful.

Glen


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## a_lopa (Sep 12, 2004)

nick,when are you sorting my buis?


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## NeTree (Sep 12, 2004)

Glen, I don't think it matters. Nick's not going to find a truck that will last as long as he continues to spec slushboxes in 'em.

There's a reason 90% of the OTR trucks are sticks... they're cheaper, and hold up better. The other 10% is simply to get drivers to fill seats who wouldn't be qualified otherwise.


WTF is so hard about getting the guys to step up to a class B??


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## Stumper (Sep 12, 2004)

Eric, I know you are right about cheaper. And cheaper to run overall because they typically have more gears and can get bettter fuel economy. However, Automatics have a stronger, planetary gear system and actually log more miles without problems on average.:angel:


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## Nickrosis (Sep 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Stumper _
> *Eric, I know you are right about cheaper. And cheaper to run overall because they typically have more gears and can get bettter fuel economy. However, Automatics have a stronger, planetary gear system and actually log more miles without problems on average.:angel: *


That's exactly what I've been trying to say all along.


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## TimberMcPherson (Sep 12, 2004)

Hino and Isuzu make great trucks, I dont think the trucks you pictured ever make it off shore. Im looking at trucks myself down here.

This ones a 1991 but its only done 10,332kms. It'll take 3 tonne and its 4wd. 3.6 diesel. I just have to make it tip and put some toolboxes on it. All for 16,000NZ (thats about 10,000 US)


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## NeTree (Sep 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Stumper _
> * Automatics have a stronger, planetary gear system and actually log more miles without problems on average.:angel: *




WTF did you get THAT statistic????


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## Stumper (Sep 12, 2004)

Erik, Pulled it out of my left elbow of course! 

Actually I have seen those stats on light trucks-I only have a couple of anecdotal accounts on Heavy vehicles.


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## glens (Sep 12, 2004)

All the vehicles Nick's contemplating are medium-duty trucks.&nbsp; Automatic transmissions should be a non-issue with them and should last the life of the truck.&nbsp; His problem with the one in the Ford is a fluke.


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## NeTree (Sep 12, 2004)

He really needs to start thinking HEAVY DUTY.


Automatic trannys WON'T last the life of the truck, whether they should or not. I don't care WHO made it... it just rarely happens. There's simply WAY too much that can go wrong in a slushbox vs. a stick.

What ever wears out in a stick? The clutch? Not if you know how to drive correctly. But then, if one knows how to drive, they don;t have to base their vehicle selection on transmissoin anyways. JTPT


Or to put it into your terms...
Kinda like comparing Windows to Linux... sure Linux isn't as user-friendly, but which one works better?


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## Nickrosis (Sep 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *He really needs to start thinking HEAVY DUTY.*



I think a 6500 is sufficient for a chip truck.
*



Automatic trannys WON'T last the life of the truck, whether they should or not. I don't care WHO made it... it just rarely happens. There's simply WAY too much that can go wrong in a slushbox vs. a stick.

Click to expand...

*I agree. Repairs are part of owning a vehicle.
*



Or to put it into your terms...
Kinda like comparing Windows to Linux... sure Linux isn't as user-friendly, but which one works better? 

Click to expand...

*Breakin' it down! Breakin' it down!


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## glens (Sep 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *Kinda like comparing Windows to Linux... sure Linux isn't as user-friendly, but which one works better?  *


Okay, now I understand what you're talking about, Erik!&nbsp; hahaha!

F700 with Allison auto-tranny has other major stuff go bad before the transmission, in my somewhat limited experience.

Heh, just put "allison" into google to see if I'd spelled it right.&nbsp; Got to browsing (as best I could at the funky site) and found http://www.allisontransmission.com/roadtest/index.jsp

If a worker is going to beat up a piece of equipment, it really doesn't matter what it is.&nbsp; Synchros and throw-out bearings go bad as well as the clutches in manual boxes.

Having said all that, I believe you'll find I haven't taken a stand either way in the matter.&nbsp; Call me Switzerland.

Oh, I just found I still had a window open with <a href="http://www.truck.eaton.com/na/spec_products/product_features_specs/transmission/product_profiles/auto_6/" target="_blank">this</a> from earlier this evening.&nbsp; Looks like fun...

Oh more, my spell checker offers "entree" for "netree"&nbsp; :^<tt>)</tt>

Glen


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## NeTree (Sep 13, 2004)

The concept isn't new, Glen. They started out ten years ago with a box that shifted from 9th to 10th and vice-versa automatically.

Synchros??? You're still talking medium-duty. Double-clutching isn't that hard!

As for Allison; gee, ya think it's possible they're biased much? The only reason they've had any success in the market is because the turnover in the trucking industry in pretty near 100 percent. In order to keep good/safe/productive drivers, a company has to pay well and offer trucks with lots of creature comforts... automatics being one of them. Granted, Allison has come a long way from their early days, when troubles abounded... they're still not as reliable as say, a properly driven Fuller 9-speed.


Nick, do you have any way of tracking HOW your drivers treat your trucks? 

Of course repairs are part of owning a vehicle... but selecting a vehicle that will need less repairs between the time you buy it and the time you plan to sell it is what it's all about!

Take my C600, for example...$5400 spent in repairs ain't bad at all for 268,000 miles.


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## glens (Sep 13, 2004)

On the C-60s, F-700s, etc., I'll usually double-clutch anyway.


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## Nickrosis (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *Nick, do you have any way of tracking HOW your drivers treat your trucks?
> 
> Of course repairs are part of owning a vehicle... but selecting a vehicle that will need less repairs between the time you buy it and the time you plan to sell it is what it's all about!
> ...


Yadayadayada. I'm taking all this with a large grain of salt, but not so much salt that I overdose....

Of course we want to minimize repairs. This year, our repairs dropped $25,000 after two quarters over last year. That's something we want to continue.

I'm interested in GPS-based tracking units that provide mapping for the driver and track things like acceleration and top speed, etc. We've got a pretty good idea of how things are being operated and who are the abusers. The guy I work worth is a vehicle abuser - so I do all the driving. Other people are very concientious but no one is perfect. Today's Monday morning meeting was on defensive driving, and we'll continue on the topic in the future.

Finally, companies that have worked on our vehicles have commented that they don't show signs of abuse like others they have seen. One actually put it in writing for us when we asked them to. We're not perfect, but I always want to do better!


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## NeTree (Sep 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> *Yadayadayada. I'm taking all this with a large grain of salt, but not so much salt that I overdose....
> 
> *



Rocky? That YOU?


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## TimberMcPherson (Sep 14, 2004)

Trucks can take alot of abuse but what really hurts them is inconsistancy of operation. Having alot of different drivers in the same machine a sure fire life shortener but often unavoidable. 

Get rev limiters fitted if youve got a few thrashers, those black boxes you can get in newer trucks are awesome. fit something that really looks like one just to scare the bad drivers into driving more carefully if they think you can monitor them. Put a clause in there contract along the lines of "and if mechanical breakdowns are linked to drivers carelessness or wrecklessness......" Its not a nice way to do it but can save you thousands


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## Pacific (Sep 23, 2004)

The problem you guys have in the US is the dumb CDL where you need a cdl to drive a heavy truck so your stuck with a 3 ton truck.

If I was going to spec a truck it would have 12-23 axles most likely a International with 530 Navistar power with a 9 or 10spd transmission behind it. Ohya it would be on air, juice brakes are crap especially juice operated drum brakes.

A automatic is a money pig when it breaks you can replace alot of burnt out clutches for the price of a rebuilt Allison. Driving a 9spd road ranger is easier than trying to shift a 6spd well for me it is.

If Nick wants a automatic let him buy a truck with a automatic but when he comes back here crying because the juicer blew up again for the 10th time there won't be any sympathy here. Or when he starts belly aching that he has to replace brakes on the truck every three months because of the beloved automatic.

If you do get a automatic tranny make sure you get a Telma brake to help with the braking.

The other option is send your employees to driving school to get a CDL and learn how to drive and shift a truck with a real transmission. 

You will need a truck with a 21,000lb rear axle which is bare minimum a 23,000lb axle is better. When you employees try todo bunny hops with your automatic equiped truck you need a tough rear axle  

Or they do the drop and stomp at the stop lights you don't want a axle shaft to blow  

The worst thing would be some one double dares one of your employees to try do a brake stand with the chip truck to see if they can get 22.5 rubber to spin  




Good Luck


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## Nickrosis (Sep 23, 2004)

Har har. Why am I not laughing? 

Sorry, people around here aren't perfect like where some of you apparently live. Training costs money, too. And our automatic International has never had a transmission problem in 8 years. Compare that to the manuals? I'll stick with the automatic, thank you.


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## NeTree (Sep 23, 2004)

But Nick... I was under the impression that everyone in WI was just MADE of money... or at least that's the impression you give.


pacific... trust me, you CAN get 22.5 rubber to spin.


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## Pacific (Sep 23, 2004)

On dry pavement  

If Nick needs a automatic then he better look at the new Internationals the 466 and a juicer work fairly well together. Some of the utility companies are going to automatics in their International trucks.


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## blue (Sep 23, 2004)

can't quite get my head round all the talk of wieght's on american trucks bot our main truck is 7500kg lorry.how does this compare with some of nick's pics


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## NeTree (Sep 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pacific _
> *On dry pavement
> 
> *



Absolutely. With a 361HD/FE and a Clark 287V NO LESS!


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## blue (Sep 23, 2004)

and here's a pic of our rapid response unit


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## NeTree (Sep 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by blue _
> *and here's a pic of our rapid response unit *



What the heck is that... a skateboard?


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## blue (Sep 23, 2004)

netree,
do you like it.bear in mind it'll do over 100mph not joking


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## Toddppm (Sep 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by blue _
> *netree,
> do you like it.bear in mind it'll do over 100mph not joking *



Towed behind your truck right? That's a trailer isn't it?


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## Newfie (Sep 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by blue _
> *netree,
> do you like it.bear in mind it'll do over 100mph not joking *




But, would you want to?


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 23, 2004)

Man, that's a tiny car. Ya'll should feed it, or something!


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## blue (Sep 23, 2004)

will crack 100mph under her own steam.just coz my car's got 3 wheels don't take the pi$$


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## highpoint-utd (Sep 23, 2004)

oy blue i knew a guy up here that put a cosworth engine in one of them death traps . the guy was do-lally, them robin reliants are very quick in a straight line as standard


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## Nickrosis (Sep 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pacific _
> *On dry pavement
> 
> If Nick needs a automatic then he better look at the new Internationals the 466 and a juicer work fairly well together. Some of the utility companies are going to automatics in their International trucks. *


HELLO! I'm right HERE! You don't have to use the third person.  

We have a 4900/466, and I love it. The new ones, like I said, start at $64,000, though. It was fun to drive and had plenty of power. Just a wee bit pricey.....we're not that high margin, yet.


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## NeTree (Sep 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> *HELLO! I'm right HERE! You don't have to use the third person.
> 
> . *



Third-person was proper. He was talking to ME about YOU.

Have you settled on a truck yet?


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## blue (Sep 24, 2004)

highpoint,
i'm not a big fan of turbo engines after some scary repair bills for a renault 5turbo a few years ago .as for engine replacement i was thinking more along the lines of a hayabusa susuki.aint as bad as most people think round corners you just gotta keep it smooth


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## Toddppm (Sep 24, 2004)

Still trying to figure out if you're serious 
Would make a good estimate and advertising vehicle.
At the Motorcycle dealership I used to work at they used to sell those Pulse things, actually I don't think they sold many because they were street legal but nobody would insure them.


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## blue (Sep 25, 2004)

todppm,
thats what it's used for


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## wurzel (Sep 25, 2004)

dont diss the chuklebus it rocks:angel:


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 25, 2004)

Lovely Jubbly? Cushty? Whut the heck duz _that_ mean?


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## a_lopa (Sep 25, 2004)

ha ha them poms have some good lingo!hey nick i know you dont like cab overs but there easier to drive/back dont know how they handle the cold.


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## blue (Sep 26, 2004)

mb,
do google search for "only fools and horses"

mange tout mange tout 
bonjour


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## blue (Sep 29, 2004)

the pig also does a bit of heavy work!


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## blue (Sep 29, 2004)

off to the tip we go


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## highpoint-utd (Sep 29, 2004)

blue ,what 5 gt did ya have, i had the raider, one of the last ones !
de carbon uprated shocks ,super chip and koni exhaust and bigger dump valve the little french flyer i used to call her till some oink nicked it . alaways fancied getting the prima racing 1700 engine for it  ah well


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 29, 2004)

*hahaha!!!*

That's a funny little car!!!


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## blue (Sep 30, 2004)

nothin' funny about my car IMO


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## Nickrosis (Sep 30, 2004)

Blue, just hop out of the car and look at it. It's, uh, uniquely formed.


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 30, 2004)

I'd like some of the good 'ole boys around here to see it. I wonder why we don't see those over here?

Wait, I can guess...


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## blue (Sep 30, 2004)

look just coz it's got three wheels don't pick on me


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## NeTree (Sep 30, 2004)

Looks like a little yellow chock-block to me.


 Sorry blue.


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## Nickrosis (Sep 30, 2004)

It's just funny seeing that care with that trailer....


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## wurzel (Oct 1, 2004)

> _Originally posted by blue _
> *the pig also does a bit of heavy work! *



yeah it takes the boss to the pub on fridays


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## a_lopa (Oct 2, 2004)

whats the outcome nick?


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## Nickrosis (Oct 2, 2004)

Looking like a new Ford F-650 will a Cat diesel and Allison automatic. I'll keep you posted. (I was hoping for another new International  )


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## NeTree (Oct 3, 2004)

Not big on the sissy-sticks, but you definitely made a great choice with the Cat; those power-chokes just don't cut it.


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## a_lopa (Oct 3, 2004)

go the cat


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## Nickrosis (Oct 15, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> *Looking like a new Ford F-650 will a Cat diesel and Allison automatic. I'll keep you posted. (I was hoping for another new International  ) *


So it is...made the down payment today. Hopefully it will be here in December.


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## trzz (Oct 19, 2004)

*re: Chip truck*

Hi everyone. Love this site. I am building (or getting built) a big truck. It will be a unconventional chip truck. I purchased a C8500. Its a cheverolet (only in body) has twin screw dual tandem 53,000 gvw. Yes, you will need a class B cdl, however I am looking toward the future. I have a rollover tarp to catch the chips and left a space of about 3' to the cab for a loader when funds become available. The length of the box is 18'x8'x7'. The point is: plan the future for the purchases of today. You can't catch big fish with little bait. I will keep you posted if it is a success or bust


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## Stumper (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: re: Chip truck*



> _Originally posted by trzz _
> * You can't catch big fish with little bait. I will keep you posted if it is a success or bust  *



You sir, have limited fishing experience.


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## Nickrosis (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: Re: re: Chip truck*


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## Toddppm (Oct 20, 2004)

Nick did ya know you coulda got the 750 d-rated and been under CDL?
I've been looking at trucks too and found that out last time I was at the dealer, sounds good to me!


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## NeTree (Oct 20, 2004)

Just wonderin'... what's the real point of derating a truck?


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## Toddppm (Oct 20, 2004)

No CDL. With the benefits of heavier suspension, brakes etc.? No?


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## Nickrosis (Oct 20, 2004)

The problem with pushing for under-CDL status is that you put a chipper on the truck and you're over! What's the point? Get a much smaller truck or get a CDL is the conclusion I've come to.


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## trzz (Oct 21, 2004)

*re: chip truck*

one note of caution. on a cdl you will be held to a higher standard in cdl vehicle and in your personal transportation. Fines double or tripple. CDL is the way to go for me. I can then drive anything in a class B. Later class A. The test is easy. I suppose the only problem is if you buy many class B trucks and a driver quits or gets sick. Going larger in size saves time, wear and tear and is safe. The capacity of the box cannot overexceed the gvw of the truck(unless box filled with dirt). Ps stumper, I stand by my analogy,lions don't exist on rats. Hence, Big bait Big Fish


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## NeTree (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: re: chip truck*



> _Originally posted by trzz _
> *one note of caution. on a cdl you will be held to a higher standard in cdl vehicle and in your personal transportation. Fines double or tripple. *



And what's wrong with that?


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## Stumper (Oct 21, 2004)

Dang trzzz, You are sure mixed up. Lions and rats are mammals. You might find it interesting that a study of wolves in Canada revealed that most of their diet consisted of field mice. Back to the fishing, I've caught some huge fish on tiny baits-and caught a bunch of smaller fish too while the BIG BAIT BOYS just went fishless. Regarding your truck-sounds like a real workhorse that will be ideal for some high production work (and will suck big,hairy slobber encrusted moose lips in some tight quarters.) I wish you the very best.


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## a_lopa (Oct 21, 2004)

big fish might look like dear$$$$fish,


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## trzz (Oct 21, 2004)

*truck*

Yea, it might be a little tight. It is a little bigger than a trash truck(the size I was after)but ,I hope it will keep me away from the recycling ctr. Nothing ventured nothing gained. I don't know if it is going to work well residentualy but, commercially it should work wonders. I have bought small and regretted it and am aware of going too big. If you keep your eyes open and plan on getting a truck 2+ years later you can find awsome deals on trucks. Ofcourse if you have the time. I will advise everyone on getting your body built. I was told 14days to build(business days of course). That was 8-16-04. I still havent recived it. Make a clause that says 3 days after the due date a financial penalty will accrue (lost money Insurance/truck payment). I am getting burned and pissed at the companys incompetancy. They don't call and are fullll of excusses. The price I am paying I could afford a new car.


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## Newfie (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: truck*



> _Originally posted by trzz _
> * I will advise everyone on getting your body built. I was told 14days to build(business days of course). That was 8-16-04. I still havent recived it. Make a clause that says 3 days after the due date a financial penalty will accrue (lost money Insurance/truck payment). I am getting burned and pissed at the companys incompetancy. They don't call and are fullll of excusses. The price I am paying I could afford a new car. *



Most body builders seem to be that way. I waited over a month for mine. Simple job. I don't mind the wait, but don't blow smoke up my a$$, saying "we're making progress".


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## Nickrosis (Oct 22, 2004)

Seems that way. Took almost two weeks to put two stainless steel toolboxes on one of the trucks we just bought. If we took that long to do a pruning job.....

I'm not a strong believer in over building. I'm a believer in building for what you need. If blue can get by with his car, you know that you need to justify anything bigger.

I'd like to get a twin axle truck for heavy stuff, but honestly, how often would we need it? I'd like to get a semi-tractor and assorted trailers, but honestly how often would we need it?

And truly, how much chip capacity do you need? If we had trips of 50+ miles to most jobs, I would want a huge chip box. Short of that, though, what's 30 minutes for a trip to dump? It gives everyone else a break and doesn't require a $130,000 truck.


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## trzz (Oct 23, 2004)

*ok*

I understand your logic nick. I just need larger capacity. It comes in handy. When on a large job or smaller jobs the efficiency increases and you cannot miss it. A 18'x7' moving billboard is one hell of an advertisement. Less trips means more time on site = less goofing off. It typically doesn't cost that much more. Faster can mean price per tree removals diminish leading to a better competitive edge. To cut a 80' pine into 5' sections and then to recut or split to throw into chipbox or dump 5' section and let loader pickup? I think it might reduce labor by 1/2. I want something I can grow into. I take good care of my equipment. As far as truck body building. I think that once they recive the money they have you. Maybe a larger company with many bodys to build becomes priority. I am just trying to help anyone who reads my message to not make the same mistake. Put a clause as to some kind of financial reduction per day late delivered. :angel:


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## Scars2prove-it (Oct 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> *And finally, the 2004 International 4300 with the DT466E engine. Also has an Allison automatic. The list price is $64,000, but the incentives take an eye-popping $20,000 off of that...plus delivery, they want $46,000 for it. Great truck to drive! GVWR of 25,999 lbs., ABS airbrakes, computer screen for a dashboard, terrific mirrors, tight turning radius - I liked it a lot.
> 
> 
> ...



A friend of mine in the business has a truck like that except his is a roll-off. His chip box can be removed and then he brings an open box to load wood. It's easier to load since it sits on the ground. If I don't have time to run two trucks to a job, I rent one of his containers for my guys to load wood in.


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## Nickrosis (Oct 31, 2004)

I just saw a tree company out of Michigan using a brand new Internation 4200 with a VT 365 motor. He liked it a lot and had no problems filling it with chips and pulling a chipper. Maybe that would've been an option.

But the 4200 is a real step down from the 4300....


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## Nickrosis (Nov 2, 2004)

Blue, this reminded me of your car. 

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/cartrailor.html

FYI: Blue's car:


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## Yellowdog (Nov 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *Are you sure that info is current? Not breaking your balls, but the whole CDL system is FEDERAL, not STATE standards.
> 
> Just curious why NY would be different... (besides the obvious  ) *



Me too. I thought it was 26,001 lbs and you were commercial unless you were doing interstate commerce where 10k would be the threshold. Here, in TX, you can drive a truck up to 26k with a regular license.


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## Al Smith (Nov 21, 2004)

*An option ,maybe*

In this part of the country,a used grain hauler,can be purchased ,fairly cheap.A typical hauler,is a Ford 750,with big block and a 4 and 2 or 5 and 2 tranny,and 14 ft bed,and 60 or 70 thou.,on the odometer.Most of them have been kept under cover,and are in good shape.They make a real good chip truck,log hauler,or what ever.While they were in service,as a hauler,they were only used about 1 month out of the year.I am refering to a truck,from the midwest,and not from the western states,where they have been beat to a pulp,from heavy service.This is just a less expensive option,I thought I would throw at you.They are out there,you just have to look for them.


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## Nickrosis (Nov 21, 2004)

Al, that's what we had - a 1989 Ford F-700 gas V8 5spd, and we're replacing it with a 2004 Ford F-650 with a Cat diesel with the Allison automatic. Should be in within a couple of weeks.  So excited.


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## blue (Nov 23, 2004)

nick,
couldn't couldn't download the video.what was it?


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## Nickrosis (Nov 24, 2004)

Oh, it's hilarious - maybe you could catch it on someone else's computer. The video is filmed by some bicyclists at the side of the road when a tiny car comes roaring up a steep hill, towing a camper many times larger than the car itself. All's well until the driver tries to downshift since the motor started to bog......

The downshift didn't happen and the car was whipped down the hill, brakes smoking the whole way!


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## Nickrosis (Apr 18, 2005)

It came in on Wednesday. Finally! It was recalled somewhere between Mexico and Milwaukee, and at one point, Ford didn't know where it was. It has an International 365 and an Allison automatic.


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## Proj Eng (Apr 18, 2005)

Nice Guns!
Do you plan to keep the plastic on the seats?


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## Nickrosis (Apr 18, 2005)

The plastic is off! That baby is off and running in the field - it just needed the fire extinguisher and first aid kit to be ready to go.


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## jazak (Feb 11, 2006)

*F550*

A F550 w/ 4x4, auto & diesel is the best medium duty truck out there. Put an Aluminum 10-12' body and your set. Its smaller then a 4500 or 5500 so it can fit through tight spaces and is about the same size as a 350. I have 3 and love em.


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## mike385 (Feb 11, 2006)

If airbrakes aren't an issue, then why can't you get the endorsement without a B liscence in PA? I would go for a mack or the international. I would stay away from auto's also. Just my two cents. 
mike


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## mpatch (Feb 11, 2006)

*from WI*



NeTree said:


> But Nick... I was under the impression that everyone in WI was just MADE of money... or at least that's the impression you give.
> 
> 
> pacific... trust me, you CAN get 22.5 rubber to spin.



I use a 99 F-550 4x4 with a 7-8 yard chip box. Anything bigger and there is no way I would be able to back into alot of the places that I have to with a chipper. Most of the companies that use the big chip truck do a lot of road work. The more places you can go the better. The 550 has served me well I dont think that I could overload it I have been close a few times. I weigh about 9200 empty. That gives you 7000+ in payload. In the winter I use it to plow with. Not a cheap truck but not very expensive either.


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## JimL (Feb 11, 2006)

Needs better mirrors like you pictured on the international.


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## palmersfirewood (Feb 13, 2006)

Nickrosis said:


> Another rant....
> 
> The F-550 weighs 16,500 plus some water: 550 gal in 4 tanks...never fully loaded. Usually carried about 300 gallons: 2400 lbs. That's within specs. A tranny at 4,000 miles? Outta the question.
> 
> ...



Automatics just don't last as long as a maual in every day hard pulling work. We have towed 15k+ with my dads f350 w/ a 460 and 5 spd, just some food for thought.


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