# Sawdust in pool



## mckeetree (Jun 24, 2009)

I want some opinions on this situation. We did a removal today and everything goes good until the caretaker of the property calls me about an hour ago and says "Well, you got sawdust in the pool. Filters are stopped up and I am calling a pool guy out and looks like you get paid nothing." I told the caretaker some sawdust might get in the pool to which he had no reply. Now he says the pool had an electric cover and we should have used it. The owner is Don Nelson. He used to be coach of the Dallas Mavericks. I have to go through this caretaker and have no way of talking to Mr. Nelson directly.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 24, 2009)

I usually tarp up pools and ponds as SOP. 

I would want to see the mess first before anyone else fixes it. If the controlling party does not give you a chance to make amends, or document, then you have a leg to stand on in court. FWIW

Anyway you go about it, you probably lost the account with the caretaker.


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## andosca (Jun 24, 2009)

it's been a while since i took care of a pool though i now have one but unable to open it this year for lack of time. the sawdust would have to pass through two baskets if it went through the surface skimmer and would have had to go though an inline filter and a basket if vacuumed. did you buck up a big tree on the pool patio with a dull saw? i would think it would take a lot of fine dust to clog the filter and if it did you could backflush it.


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## mckeetree (Jun 24, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I usually tarp up pools and ponds as SOP.
> 
> I would want to see the mess first before anyone else fixes it. If the controlling party does not give you a chance to make amends, or document, then you have a leg to stand on in court. FWIW
> 
> Anyway you go about it, you probably lost the account with the caretaker.



I think you are right. Anyway I go about it I probably lost the account.


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## mckeetree (Jun 24, 2009)

andosca said:


> it's been a while since i took care of a pool though i now have one but unable to open it this year for lack of time. the sawdust would have to pass through two baskets if it went through the surface skimmer and would have had to go though an inline filter and a basket if vacuumed. did you buck up a big tree on the pool patio with a dull saw? i would think it would take a lot of fine dust to clog the filter and if it did you could backflush it.



It was a big tree but the saw was not dull.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jun 24, 2009)

Too bad the convertible wasn't nearby with its top down... could have killed two birds with one stone!

Seriously though, doing a cleanout flush and refill of the diatomaceous earth is not going to cost more than the removal! Heck, most of the chips will float on the pools surface and can be skimmed up with the net! Even with the cover on the pool it will still get sawdust all over it that would eventually wind up in the pool.


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## tree md (Jun 24, 2009)

I did a huge job last year on a rural property with over 200 trees to prune or remove. I was working in the back yard when the pool girl came to clean. She was HOT! Told her I was about to do a large tree right next to the pool next and asked if she wanted to wait until I finished the tree before she started cleaning. She said no problem. It was probably 25-26" DBH but I took it out in about 15 or 20 minutes. Roped 2 limbs from over the pool, free fell a couple limbs, topped it and dropped it in 2 or 3 cuts. She cleaned the pool with no problems at all and never said a word about the saw dust. Did I mention that she was HOT!

I think the caretaker was probably pissed about the saw dust. I doubt very seriously that it did any damage. Pools get all kinds of #### in them when it storms.


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## BC_Logger (Jun 24, 2009)

andosca said:


> it's been a while since i took care of a pool though i now have one but unable to open it this year for lack of time. the sawdust would have to pass through two baskets if it went through the surface skimmer and would have had to go though an inline filter and a basket if vacuumed. did you buck up a big tree on the pool patio with a dull saw? i would think it would take a lot of fine dust to clog the filter and if it did you could backflush it.



:agree2: 

I call in experience on the caretakers part probably just over reacting, the skimmer basket and the basket in front of the pump probably has chips in it and if there is chips in the filter a good backwash will flush them away 

absolute worst case you have to pull the dial valve on the sand filter and clean the chips out or if a cartage filter split the filter remove the cartages and just rinse it out


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## capetrees (Jun 24, 2009)

andosca said:


> it's been a while since i took care of a pool though i now have one but unable to open it this year for lack of time. the sawdust would have to pass through two baskets if it went through the surface skimmer and would have had to go though an inline filter and a basket if vacuumed. did you buck up a big tree on the pool patio with a dull saw? i would think it would take a lot of fine dust to clog the filter and if it did you could backflush it.



Completely correct. 
My friend has a pool, does very little maintenance to it although he should do more and the filter only gets clogged over time due to neglect. What you have here is a situation where the filter was probably just about to need to be replaced or backflushed anyway and your sawdust was the proverbial "straw that broke the camels back". You didn't clog the entire system. No way. You were just the last thing that went into the filter before it was full. I would demand to be there when the pool guy does his work and see what is really in there. You would have to really be putting a LOT of chips in the pool before the filter clogged.


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## LTREES (Jun 24, 2009)

I tell the HO to cover the pool if they don't want saw dust in it. They say ok or don't worry about that. I would want my pool (if I had one) to be covered to keep out the bar oil. I can't see clogging the filter from the TD. I'd show up when the pool guy is there, hopefully it is not this guys buddy doing pools on the side. Just doesn't make sense to me. Demand to see the pile of saw dust that did the clogging. I bet he didn't set up the filter right when he opened it. My FIL did that one year.

LT...


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## Happyjack (Jun 24, 2009)

capetrees said:


> Completely correct.
> My friend has a pool, does very little maintenance to it although he should do more and the filter only gets clogged over time due to neglect. What you have here is a situation where the filter was probably just about to need to be replaced or backflushed anyway and your sawdust was the proverbial "straw that broke the camels back". You didn't clog the entire system. No way. You were just the last thing that went into the filter before it was full. I would demand to be there when the pool guy does his work and see what is really in there. You would have to really be putting a LOT of chips in the pool before the filter clogged.



I agree with this 100%. I have a Pool, so I can relate. I would bring my Camera or Video camera with me when the Pool guy comes to see what the problem is. Also if you mentioned that you may get some chips in the Pool, it should have been the caretakers responsibility to cover the pool before you started the work.


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 24, 2009)

No offense but it sounds like this guy was setting you up for a beating one way or another, if there is damage to pool you need to document that before it is cleaned or they have no leg to stand in court, and after this happened would you ever want to work there again anyway, cover you back side on the future and mention these things so you always can say I told a so.


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## chip's-tree (Jun 24, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> I want some opinions on this situation. We did a removal today and everything goes good until the caretaker of the property calls me about an hour ago and says "Well, you got sawdust in the pool. Filters are stopped up and I am calling a pool guy out and looks like you get paid nothing." I told the caretaker some sawdust might get in the pool to which he had no reply. Now he says the pool had an electric cover and we should have used it. The owner is Don Nelson. He used to be coach of the Dallas Mavericks. I have to go through this caretaker and have no way of talking to Mr. Nelson directly.



I've worked over half dozen pools and it takes a heck of a lot of sawdust to cause a real problem. some caretakers have to show their POWER. he will more than likely pay you if you are nice when the two of you talk again. but either way you should get the change to fix the problem, if not then it will help you in court. remember to always be professional.


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## tree md (Jun 24, 2009)

To tell the truth, that is not how it works in this business anyway. We are insured for just this circumstance. I would tell him that either he can let you bring your own professional out there to look at it or you can turn it into your agent and let him investigate it but "I will be paid".


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## ckliff (Jun 24, 2009)

TOTAL BS!

I'm an arborist & I have an inground pool. I've also done lotsa work over pools.
The caretaker is full of it! Take 'em to court.

Thats why pools HAVE filters (tell that to the dodo).


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## mckeetree (Jun 24, 2009)

I sincerely appreciate all the response and it makes me feel better about the whole deal even if I never get a penny out of the job. I am going to call the caretaker tomorrow afternoon and ask him which direction is all this going.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jun 25, 2009)

Tell him he is a CARE TAKER, if he didnt take care to cover the pool that hes responsible for and that you had mentioned, perhaps he should find himself another way to feel important.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jun 25, 2009)

I wonder if hes going to pocket the money thats supposed to go to you and say you got paid?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 25, 2009)

TimberMcPherson said:


> I wonder if hes going to pocket the money thats supposed to go to you and say you got paid?



There ya go; how many of us have worked with caretakers/managers that expect a little grease/baksheesh for getting the contract?

I've worked at a resort and a country club and at both places I would get asked by contractors how much I would "want back".


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## Bermie (Jun 25, 2009)

I agree unless you dumped a truckload of chips in the pool, the filters might be clogged but I can't see that sawdust/chips would have wrecked it.

The caretaker needs to prove that only your dust caused a problem. 

Keep the high road, if you come across as reasonable and professional, you may well keep the account.

I spent about half an hour the other day cleaning my dust out of a pool, the HO was cool with it all but I wanted to do what I could to mitigate the issue, other than a HUGE tarpaulin, there wasn't much I could do to keep the crap out, I had a small tarp that caught some small branches and twigs but the dust just drifted and blew in...ornamental spruce were leaning out right over the pool. I got to most of the dust before it got sucked into the filters.


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## teamtree (Jun 25, 2009)

got a call yesterday from a customer in which we did some removals for about a month ago...he says he thinks he has a problem at his rent house and wants to know if I crushed his sewer pipes with my truck. 

Well we did not have the truck in that part of the yard and we used mats to go into the yard. We also discussed the yard being wet and there would be some ruts but we would fix them. The only thing I had in his yard was a 34hp tractor that lifts about 1000 pounds so it would only weigh 4000 pounds. 

He wants me to stop by and check out the problem.


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## Treetom (Jun 25, 2009)

i think the caretaker is bustin' yer balls. perhaps he should have covered the pool his own self.


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## teamtree (Jun 25, 2009)

We pruned a few limbs out of a big pin oak one time at a large company headquarters that was about 30ft from a fountain. The property manager told me he would contact the facility manager and see if he wanted to tarp it. No one showed up so we pruned the big dead limb and left. There may have been enough saw dust on the entire job to fill up a 32oz cup but some how a 5 gallon bucket of debris came off the tree and ended up in the filters. We took an ass chewing over it. The next time they tarped the fountain and I think as much or more saw dust got in the filters as it was windy and the tarps were not sealed to the ground. We are going to have to remove the tree this summer so I will have to get out some duct tape.

Here is a question.....anyone ever seen an attachment that goes on a chainsaw to catch the sawdust?


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## tree md (Jun 25, 2009)

teamtree said:


> We pruned a few limbs out of a big pin oak one time at a large company headquarters that was about 30ft from a fountain. The property manager told me he would contact the facility manager and see if he wanted to tarp it. No one showed up so we pruned the big dead limb and left. There may have been enough saw dust on the entire job to fill up a 32oz cup but some how a 5 gallon bucket of debris came off the tree and ended up in the filters. We took an ass chewing over it. The next time they tarped the fountain and I think as much or more saw dust got in the filters as it was windy and the tarps were not sealed to the ground. We are going to have to remove the tree this summer so I will have to get out some duct tape.
> 
> Here is a question.....anyone ever seen an attachment that goes on a chainsaw to catch the sawdust?



I haven't seen one for a chainsaw but I did have to use a shop vac to vacuum the dust up onetime. It's what the customer wanted and I didn't ask questions. I just charged accordingly.


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## Tree Pig (Jun 25, 2009)

Cover or no cover it should be no big deal empty the skimmers. A pool has a double protection system. Skimmer at the water intake in the pool and a skimmer prior to that water passing through the filter. Not to mention the filtration from the sand itself. Even if some sawdust got in the pool, I cant see much of it getting past the skimmers. Most likely they would just clog and slow the water flow and the BS caretaker would have to bend over remove and dump the skimmer problem solved.


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## pdqdl (Jun 25, 2009)

You're being taken for a ride. I'm no expert on pools, but the claim by the caretaker that pay is forfeited by any amount of claim for damages is just bogus.

Catch the caretaker in a nice & quiet setting, make some vague gesture about "How can we solve this problem?", and see if he doesn't hint a little more directly at a kickback.

After that, the ball is in your court, but at least you know what the rules are to the game you have been playing.


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## chip's-tree (Jun 25, 2009)

*a good dunk*

heck 20 yrs ago I would have baptized him in the pool until his check book floated up..


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## tree md (Jun 25, 2009)

chip's-tree said:


> heck 20 yrs ago I would have baptized him in the pool until his check book floated up..



These days you need to do it in a more discrete manor but still the same concept...


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## M.D. Vaden (Jun 25, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I usually tarp up pools and ponds as SOP.
> 
> I would want to see the mess first before anyone else fixes it. If the controlling party does not give you a chance to make amends, or document, then you have a leg to stand on in court. FWIW
> 
> Anyway you go about it, you probably lost the account with the caretaker.



I've done that on some ponds. Cover - that is. In most cases, we rely on the homeowners to clear the area of knicknacks and to prepare their own pool covering so we don't tamper with something we don't contract for. Often, they want to, or expect to clear their own stuff, or cover their own stuff. But extra preparation is available as long as they are paying for the service.

At least in the case of this thread, the guy hopefully won't be able to escape paying for the work if the work was contracted - does not seem so anyway. Reminds me of something similar that someone tried to do to our son. In his case, the work was for a contracting business. I told him to file a claim against them. And the Oregon contractors board ordered them to pay him, because their excuse or beef was a separate issue from the work he did.

Let us know how it goes. I alway like to review this kind of stuff to learn what is available and what's not, and what can be done and what can't.

At least the pool filters must be working.


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## mckeetree (Jun 25, 2009)

Bermie said:


> I agree unless you dumped a truckload of chips in the pool, the filters might be clogged but I can't see that sawdust/chips would have wrecked it.
> 
> The caretaker needs to prove that only your dust caused a problem.
> 
> ...



I don't really want the account. I just want to get paid and get away from this guy. I called a pool company this morning and they told me $150.00 to back flush and clean the filters and $200.00 more to vac any debris out of the pool. Plus tax of course. I called the caretaker and told him I could 
send them over and he tells me "No, we have a pool guy coming and he is going to assess the problem". I found out this morning that Donnie Nelson, Don's son, took the property over last Sept. Same difference though I have no way to talk to him directly. Also found out this morning the caretaker has stiffed other contractors. Oh well, live and learn. At least it's not like it was 23 years ago when I stated in this business when not getting paid would have just about put me out of business.


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## pdqdl (Jun 26, 2009)

I would ask the caretaker how long he thinks he will get to hold the job if his boss gets hauled into court, liens placed on the property, piles of logs dumped into the pool, etc.

I would make sure that he knows that the boss WILL become personally involved, whether he likes it or not.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 26, 2009)

Just tell him you have a policy of placing leans on any property that does not pay.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jun 27, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> I don't really want the account. I just want to get paid and get away from this guy. I called a pool company this morning and they told me $150.00 to back flush and clean the filters and $200.00 more to vac any debris out of the pool. Plus tax of course. I called the caretaker and told him I could
> send them over and he tells me "No, we have a pool guy coming and he is going to assess the problem". I found out this morning that Donnie Nelson, Don's son, took the property over last Sept. Same difference though I have no way to talk to him directly. Also found out this morning the caretaker has stiffed other contractors. Oh well, live and learn. At least it's not like it was 23 years ago when I stated in this business when not getting paid would have just about put me out of business.



I hate guys that operate like that. Time to start returning the mulch n logs at night in from of his driveway that he didnt pay to have desposed of. If he hasnt paid you to remove it, its only right you return it to him.

Get a bucket of white paint and write "PAY ME" on the road outside in BIG letters.


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## Miket163 (Jun 27, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> I want some opinions on this situation. We did a removal today and everything goes good until the caretaker of the property calls me about an hour ago and says "Well, you got sawdust in the pool. Filters are stopped up and I am calling a pool guy out and looks like you get paid nothing." I told the caretaker some sawdust might get in the pool to which he had no reply. Now he says the pool had an electric cover and we should have used it. The owner is Don Nelson. He used to be coach of the Dallas Mavericks. I have to go through this caretaker and have no way of talking to Mr. Nelson directly.



Don is a douche...tell him that his care takers should have covered it...his is a multimillionaire he will pay.


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## deeker (Jun 27, 2009)

tree md said:


> I did a huge job last year on a rural property with over 200 trees to prune or remove. I was working in the back yard when the pool girl came to clean. She was HOT! Told her I was about to do a large tree right next to the pool next and asked if she wanted to wait until I finished the tree before she started cleaning. She said no problem. It was probably 25-26" DBH but I took it out in about 15 or 20 minutes. Roped 2 limbs from over the pool, free fell a couple limbs, topped it and dropped it in 2 or 3 cuts. She cleaned the pool with no problems at all and never said a word about the saw dust. Did I mention that she was HOT!
> 
> I think the caretaker was probably pissed about the saw dust. I doubt very seriously that it did any damage. Pools get all kinds of #### in them when it storms.



Any pics of the young lady?????

Otherwise, I have my doubts.

Kevin


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## mckeetree (Jun 27, 2009)

Miket163 said:


> Don is a douche...tell him that his care takers should have covered it...his is a multimillionaire he will pay.



Yeah I would like to talk to Mr. Nelson directly but I may not get the chance to. It is beyond me why that azzclown caretaker didn't close the cover. Landscape guy there told me the heck of it is the caretaker had been griping about the pool cover not working and had recently got it fixed so he could close it. We started the job exactly when we told him we would so no timing issue. His name is Mike Zabojnic. If you are in the tree business in this area and some guy with that name calls, RUN!


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## tree md (Jun 27, 2009)

deeker said:


> Any pics of the young lady?????
> 
> Otherwise, I have my doubts.
> 
> Kevin



Sorry, no pics. She runs a mobile pool cleaning service and I have met her on two properties now. We have exchanged cards for referral purposes but business is as far as it goes. She is married... 

Mckeetree, It has been my experience that some caretakers can be self important pompous asses! If he thinks you are going to make waves he is likely to lament. I'd play hardball with him.


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## Miket163 (Jun 27, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> Yeah I would like to talk to Mr. Nelson directly but I may not get the chance to. It is beyond me why that azzclown caretaker didn't close the cover. Landscape guy there told me the heck of it is the caretaker had been griping about the pool cover not working and had recently got it fixed so he could close it. We started the job exactly when we told him we would so no timing issue. His name is Mike Zabojnic. If you are in the tree business in this area and some guy with that name calls, RUN!



I mainly do Lawn Maintenance but do tree trimming and removal on stuff less than '60 (unless im out in the open) for most stuff in the arborist field i contract it out to y'all guys...the pros. But i will tell people to watch out for him. BTW what neighbourhood is don in?


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## mckeetree (Jun 27, 2009)

Miket163 said:


> I mainly do Lawn Maintenance but do tree trimming and removal on stuff less than '60 (unless im out in the open) for most stuff in the arborist field i contract it out to y'all guys...the pros. But i will tell people to watch out for him. BTW what neighbourhood is don in?



This is actually their house at Cedar Creek Lake, 60 miles east of Dallas. The house now belongs to Donnie Nelson, Don's son that is with the Mavericks. Chances are he is a super nice guy. I think he lives in Plano. Problem is I am insulated from the owner by the caretaker.


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## treemandan (Jun 27, 2009)

I have to say if you were surprised by the phone call from the guy telling you about the pump being full of sawdust then its yo falt. I mean someone had to recognize what was happening and be aware enough to mention it to someone during the job? Where were you? Hell, it should have been dealt with beforehand.
But it happens, you can see the oil floating on top.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jun 27, 2009)

I keep seeing Bill Murray picking up the candy bar from the bottom of the pool in Caddyshack..." Its okay! Its a Baby Ruth!" Chomp!


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## ropensaddle (Jun 27, 2009)

Go over to Denton get the Von Erics to pay him a visit lol. Drop a hint over in Oak Cliff about
a huge party byob pool party lol place signs all the way to it tell em to come on their Harley's
it works I will guarantee that!


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## Taxmantoo (Jun 27, 2009)

How many contractors has he ripped off?
How many of them are still within the statute of limitations to sue?
What happens to the caretaker's cushy job if they all file suit against the caretaker and the owner as co-defendants? Let me tell you, by the time the judge and the owner see the third suit, neither one of them will be amused with the caretaker's behavior. The caretaker's job is to make life easy for the boss, not get him dragged into court.


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## treemandan (Jun 27, 2009)

TimberMcPherson said:


> Tell him he is a CARE TAKER, if he didnt take care to cover the pool that hes responsible for and that you had mentioned, perhaps he should find himself another way to feel important.



Something like that. I wouldn't have set foot on the property unless the pool was reconciled with beforehand.


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## Miket163 (Jun 27, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Go over to Denton get the Von Erics to pay him a visit lol. Drop a hint over in Oak Cliff about
> a huge party byob pool party lol place signs all the way to it tell em to come on their Harley's
> it works I will guarantee that!



only one Von Eric left...The Atkinson's even sold most of there farm (in shady shore/corinth)


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## tree md (Jun 27, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Go over to Denton get the Von Erics to pay him a visit lol. Drop a hint over in Oak Cliff about
> a huge party byob pool party lol place signs all the way to it tell em to come on their Harley's
> it works I will guarantee that!



I've got a dear friend in Denton that would love to join that party!!!

I also know some large business owners in the Dallas area Mckeetree. Let me know if I can help you in anyway. I'm serious, My hunting partner has the contract for the sprinklers in the Dallas stadium. I bet I can put you in touch with someone who can get you in touch with Don.


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## treemandan (Jun 27, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> Yeah I would like to talk to Mr. Nelson directly but I may not get the chance to. It is beyond me why that azzclown caretaker didn't close the cover. Landscape guy there told me the heck of it is the caretaker had been griping about the pool cover not working and had recently got it fixed so he could close it. We started the job exactly when we told him we would so no timing issue. His name is Mike Zabojnic. If you are in the tree business in this area and some guy with that name calls, RUN!



Its beyond me why you did the job seeing the pool wasn't covered.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 27, 2009)

Miket163 said:


> only one Von Eric left...The Atkinson's even sold most of there farm (in shady shore/corinth)



Been a long time pard!


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## ropensaddle (Jun 27, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Its beyond me why you did the job seeing the pool wasn't covered.



Would you have wasted a day and fuel after scheduling a five man crew I am not sure where Mctree lives but I am sure it was a trip across lake lavon out of town a bit if I remember correct!


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## tree md (Jun 28, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Would you have wasted a day and fuel after scheduling a five man crew I am not sure where Mctree lives but I am sure it was a trip across lake lavon out of town a bit if I remember correct!



Sounds to me like the caretaker wasn't taking care. I get paid to put trees on the ground, not clean pools...


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## mckeetree (Jun 28, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Something like that. I wouldn't have set foot on the property unless the pool was reconciled with beforehand.



I know you are The Dan, but hey , I told the guy sawdust would get in the pool. He is the one that chose not to use the power cover.


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## mckeetree (Jun 28, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Would you have wasted a day and fuel after scheduling a five man crew I am not sure where Mctree lives but I am sure it was a trip across lake lavon out of town a bit if I remember correct!



Circumstances being the same he would have done the job just like I did.


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## treemandan (Jun 28, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Would you have wasted a day and fuel after scheduling a five man crew I am not sure where Mctree lives but I am sure it was a trip across lake lavon out of town a bit if I remember correct!



Sure the math sucks ... both ways now. I was just thinking of putting a clause in my proposal like doctors do so I get some money for BS like this but the truth remains.
I answer yes to the question. In this situation I would have been in 5th gear by the end of the driveway you bet. 
Yeah the whole thing sucks but if you want to work for Mr don Nelson (whoever the F he is and if he gives me any crap he gets what the other get) then you should have made sure that before you start cutting the pool would be covered along with your ass.
We all know these people exist and are out to do the job on you. They know they can get you and you will squirm more than them. Me, I avoid this type of account solely because .


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## treemandan (Jun 28, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> Circumstances being the same he would have done the job just like I did.



My job is to make sure I don't get caretakers calling trying to feed me BS. I hope it works out but I think you should have have the train coming. The good side is next time you will
And NO, I would have rolled, I do it all the time. Live today, fight again tommorow... and win


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## mckeetree (Jun 28, 2009)

tree md said:


> I've got a dear friend in Denton that would love to join that party!!!
> 
> I also know some large business owners in the Dallas area Mckeetree. Let me know if I can help you in anyway. I'm serious, My hunting partner has the contract for the sprinklers in the Dallas stadium. I bet I can put you in touch with someone who can get you in touch with Don.



That would be great. At this point I have about given up on getting paid anything but I would love to give my side of the story. You know, looking back I have decided the caretaker had it in for me from the start. He had some rag-tag bunch that he was using for tree work at that property but something or another happened to them and they went on somewhere else. He ask me why I thought we were more qualified to to take care of their tree needs and I told him well, I am a certified arborist with a degree in aboriculture. We carry contractors liability and workers comp. We have been in business for 23 years. He just scowled at me . I think he decided before we ever started "OK, Mr. certified arborist with the insurance you are so proud of. I'll show your azz". And I guess he did.


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## mckeetree (Jun 28, 2009)

treemandan said:


> My job is to make sure I don't get caretakers calling trying to feed me BS. I hope it works out but I think you should have have the train coming. The good side is next time you will
> And NO, I would have rolled, I do it all the time. Live today, fight again tommorow... and win



Yes. Next time I will.


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## treemandan (Jun 28, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> I know you are The Dan, but hey , I told the guy sawdust would get in the pool. He is the one that chose not to use the power cover.



I don't know all the details but I have a great imagination but I don't see how if you told the caretaker this he could be at your throat. 
My imagination tells me the guy is screwing you cause he can and it will probaly make him a buck for his wretched toils of being Don Nelson's caretaker ( whoever the F Don Nelson is). I wish I could do more than to tell you its your own fault but it is. 
Yes, The Dan knows what evil lurks and when he sees it he goes home, calls up the evil and says " F you prick, put a cover on the pool and maybe ( if you are lucky) I will come back."
Good luck getting your money, I'd love to help.


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## treemandan (Jun 28, 2009)

Power cover huh? Who the hell was sleeping at the wheel? You got a big high profile gig like this and there is nobody on your crew running " protocol"? 
Seriously, who is in charge? You were there at the start? You met Mr. caretaker? You set a date and told them you were coming?
That is all I am saying. Somewhere, sometime, someone should have done something about this pool. Right? And when it was seen that nothing was done maybe proceedings should have been postponed until something was done.
We just sprinkled a pool with some crap yesterday, I doubt Mrs. Casey will be bothered, she is like you and me, but Don Nelsons caretaker? First of all sounds like he takes it in the butt.


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## mckeetree (Jun 28, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Power cover huh? Who the hell was sleeping at the wheel? You got a big high profile gig like this and there is nobody on your crew running " protocol"?
> Seriously, who is in charge? You were there at the start? You met Mr. caretaker? You set a date and told them you were coming?
> That is all I am saying. Somewhere, sometime, someone should have done something about this pool. Right? And when it was seen that nothing was done maybe proceedings should have been postponed until something was done.
> We just sprinkled a pool with some crap yesterday, I doubt Mrs. Casey will be bothered, she is like you and me, but Don Nelsons caretaker? First of all sounds like he takes it in the butt.



If I had it all to do over again I would have done it a little differently.


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## tree md (Jun 28, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> That would be great. At this point I have about given up on getting paid anything but I would love to give my side of the story. You know, looking back I have decided the caretaker had it in for me from the start. He had some rag-tag bunch that he was using for tree work at that property but something or another happened to them and they went on somewhere else. He ask me why I thought we were more qualified to to take care of their tree needs and I told him well, I am a certified arborist with a degree in aboriculture. We carry contractors liability and workers comp. We have been in business for 23 years. He just scowled at me . I think he decided before we ever started "OK, Mr. certified arborist with the insurance you are so proud of. I'll show your azz". And I guess he did.


 
Mckee, glad to help you anyway I can. I think your getting screwed royal on this and it sticks in my craw. Let me make some calls tomorrow and see what I can come up with. I'll PM you.


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## treemandan (Jun 28, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> That would be great. At this point I have about given up on getting paid anything but I would love to give my side of the story. You know, looking back I have decided the caretaker had it in for me from the start. He had some rag-tag bunch that he was using for tree work at that property but something or another happened to them and they went on somewhere else. He ask me why I thought we were more qualified to to take care of their tree needs and I told him well, I am a certified arborist with a degree in aboriculture. We carry contractors liability and workers comp. We have been in business for 23 years. He just scowled at me . I think he decided before we ever started "OK, Mr. certified arborist with the insurance you are so proud of. I'll show your azz". And I guess he did.



And they call me paranoid. But that is the sad truth. There is so much more than meets the eye in all these types of situations it takes a sicko to figure it out. That is where I come in
I just bid for this job at this organization. I can't talk to the head guys but just the henchman. He calls , leaves a message " You got the job ( cause I was the cheapest) but we have to talk".
Now mostly its been the labor of the local farmers and sturdy volunteers who have done the cutting back of the growth at this place but now they need someone to do these trees and be able to take the fall if it goes south... they need a pro, they can't handle it.
But they want so much from me, they promise " more work" if I comply. I add what the guy said and why he would say what he said = complete and utter BS. 
I control the job, we control the job. That is why we are good. We say, they listen. That is because we know. If it can't be like that then its going to hurt you. You call Mr Don Nelson's caretaker, you say" I got 16 men and 4 bulldozers out there and that pool was supposed to be sewn up, we can't move and its costing me money and you are paying- what's up?" You don't do that and step out into traffic then it is yo falt.
But its not a bad fault, please, take it easy on yourself. Next time watch them G-dam caretakers, there is a reason they are taking care of everything.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 28, 2009)

tree md said:


> Mckee, glad to help you anyway I can. I think your getting screwed royal on this and it sticks in my craw. Let me make some calls tomorrow and see what I can come up with. I'll PM you.



I agree the caretaker was notified and informed and I don't care how you look at it mckee should have been able to send his own pool man out to assess damage. It pizzes me off when these guys think they can withhold pay We have insurance for damage however this so-called damage should be pety change. I can't see damages taking the cost of this removal.


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## treemandan (Jun 28, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> I agree the caretaker was notified and informed and I don't care how you look at it mckee should have been able to send his own pool man out to assess damage. It pizzes me off when these guys think they can withhold pay We have insurance for damage however this so-called damage should be pety change. I can't see damages taking the cost of this removal.



I agree. The caretaker is The F'er and Mctree is the F'ee and it sucks big time.


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 28, 2009)

In the spring we removed a sycamore over a pool and instead of buying a 1,000 pool cover because of punky break out we removed the cover the homeowner rathered cleaning the pool than watching his pool cover get ruined by a stray dead branch , again it sounds like the caretaker :censored: you over, but maybe he was directed that way, rich people don't get rich by being fair...


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## Greystoke (Jun 28, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> In the spring we removed a sycamore over a pool and instead of buying a 1,000 pool cover because of punky break out we removed the cover the homeowner rathered cleaning the pool than watching his pool cover get ruined by a stray dead branch , again it sounds like the caretaker :censored: you over, but maybe he was directed that way, rich people don't get rich by being fair...




Hopefully one of these days I will have clients that are rich enough to own a pool; then I will be ready, after learning from all of you!


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## TimberMcPherson (Jun 28, 2009)

I can smell there has to be more to this caretaker.

I wonder if he has a bonus payed if he stays under a certain operation budget every year? Not many people are this motivated to be ####heads if its other peoples money.


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## BC WetCoast (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm afraid I don't understand this dynamic. If we break something, we fix it (or have it fixed) and we get paid. End of story. We control the situation, not some sleazeball. As others have suggested, I would lien the property.


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## treevet (Jun 28, 2009)

A little tangental story.....the last 2 jobs we have been working next to pools in 95 degree and humid weather. The first one was covered for repairs we were clearing for to happen.

The second one, Fri., appeared to be one for the day where we could be in the pool on and off all day as a 75 foot stink tree, Ailanthus, fell square in the middle of it after deflecting of the house.

We noticed the cover was off the pool filter housing and when we looked inside we find a dead rat with maggots all over it. So what we essentially have now is a pool in the form of a giant cup of dead rat tea. 

Nobody went in the pool and we were lucky to get the mini to drag it ashore in sections and cut pieces off and scoot them to the front to be loaded by the crane. A good shower was taken by all involved afterwards.


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## maloufstree (Jun 29, 2009)

Mr. McKee high profile accounts are not always as great as they sound. I've had a similar situation that happened at Lake Athens. You live and you learn but I'm sure you've been in this situation more than once knowing the area that you work in. Just because someone has a lake house sometimes they think their #### don't stink.


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## mckeetree (Jun 29, 2009)

maloufstree said:


> Mr. McKee high profile accounts are not always as great as they sound. I've had a similar situation that happened at Lake Athens. You live and you learn but I'm sure you've been in this situation more than once knowing the area that you work in. Just because someone has a lake house sometimes they think their #### don't stink.



You are right some jobs are not worth trying to pursue. I have had a couple problem customers over the years but this guy is the biggest jerk I have ever dealt with.


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## StihlRockin' (Jun 29, 2009)

*mckeetree,

So, what are you going to do about this situation?*

*StihlRockin'*


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## mckeetree (Jun 29, 2009)

StihlRockin' said:


> *mckeetree,
> 
> So, what are you going to do about this situation?*
> 
> *StihlRockin'*




In the end....probably nothing. Complain some for a while and ultimately get beat out of the money. The guy that does the grounds says he is going to get in touch with the owner and go to bat for me big time and I will get paid. But I doubt it. If he tries to go farther than just not paying the bill my insurance would shut that down since that would be fraud.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 29, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> If he tries to go farther than just not paying the bill my insurance would shut that down since that would be fraud.



Offer tho wear a wire so he can get busted


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## ropensaddle (Jun 29, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> In the end....probably nothing. Complain some for a while and ultimately get beat out of the money. The guy that does the grounds says he is going to get in touch with the owner and go to bat for me big time and I will get paid. But I doubt it. If he tries to go farther than just not paying the bill my insurance would shut that down since that would be fraud.



You are a champ mckee better attitude than I would have. One thing I know is what goes around comes around so his day is coming he will mess with the wrong Texan one of these days


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## treemandan (Jun 29, 2009)

I dunno, I would file in district court and a mechanics lien. It was a high dollar job? How much anyway?


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## mckeetree (Jun 29, 2009)

treemandan said:


> i dunno, i would file in district court and a mechanics lien. It was a high dollar job? How much anyway?



$1,375.00


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## chip's-tree (Jun 30, 2009)

oh hell no, when i come down out of a tree the last dang thing I will put up with is a customer refusing to pay for a good job......I would kick his azz until I got paid....I may be getting old but I don't work free....and anyone that cops an attitude gets one right back.. but I'm not saying kick his#@$%@
it should not be very hard to get your money...


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## treemandan (Jun 30, 2009)

I can't say exactly what goes on in the courtroom sometimes its just a joke but it makes sense that if you upheld your end of a contract you should get paid... the judge might ask you why you still did the work when you saw the pool uncovered but I think the pool is a different subject.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 30, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I can't say exactly what goes on in the courtroom sometimes its just a joke but it makes sense that if you upheld your end of a contract you should get paid... the judge might ask you why you still did the work when you saw the pool uncovered but I think the pool is a different subject.



Yup different subject fer sure can't say what the caretaker was doing trying to steal my log chains and then jumping in that pool with them draped all over him, man them caretakers sure are silly :jawdrop:


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## ropensaddle (Jun 30, 2009)

Note the above post was a joke please don't take me too serious big brother merely comic relief:monkey:


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## tree md (Jun 30, 2009)

Mcktree, I put a call in to my friend but he is in West TX with his family until after the 4th. I will follow up with him though and see if I can get you a face to face with the owner. I wouldn't give up on it. I'm the type of guy that will spend $2000 to get my $1375 if someone tries to rip me off.


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## mckeetree (Jun 30, 2009)

tree md said:


> Mcktree, I put a call in to my friend but he is in West TX with his family until after the 4th. I will follow up with him though and see if I can get you a face to face with the owner. I wouldn't give up on it. I'm the type of guy that will spend $2000 to get my $1375 if someone tries to rip me off.



If I could just get a phone # that would work. Thanks.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jun 30, 2009)

Who signed off on the contract for the work? The caretaker?


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## mckeetree (Jun 30, 2009)

Slvrmple72 said:


> Who signed off on the contract for the work? The caretaker?



Yep. He signs off on all the work there as far as I know. He also approves payment.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jun 30, 2009)

Then it is time to make him as uncomfortable as possible! He is toying with you but I also think that if the job went perfect he would still try to find something wrong to keep from paying you. I would call his bluff and put it to him hard! Hope this turns out well for you but I think you will have to get your hands dirty. Kinda hard not to when dealing with slimeballs like this one.


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## Rftreeman (Jul 1, 2009)

why do so many people try to pass the buck, you got saw dust in the pool and it's your problem to get it out. I have several houses that I work at and they have pools and if I get anything in them I get it out with the net, it is just very un-professional to leave trash in a pool or any other place for that matter.

maybe you should of had him sign off that he would take care of the pool instead of telling him there would be a mess and he saying nothing.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 1, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> why do so many people try to pass the buck, you got saw dust in the pool and it's your problem to get it out. I have several houses that I work at and they have pools and if I get anything in them I get it out with the net, it is just very un-professional to leave trash in a pool or any other place for that matter.
> 
> maybe you should of had him sign off that he would take care of the pool instead of telling him there would be a mess and he saying nothing.



You missed the part where mckee was going to send a pool man out to repair I guess I don't think that is trying to pass the buck!


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## treevet (Jul 1, 2009)

You could count on one hand the number of clients that have ripped me off in the forty years I have been in business and still have 2 fingers to spare. But I remember all 3 of them and have contemplated paybacks like tossing a gallon of paint through the front picture window with the top completely loosened. 

One of them had me leaving their property between the dad and son who was holding a 2 by 4 and the mom saying "don't do it" while I walked through them with a large chain saw file sticking out of my hand just waiting for him to swing.

We eyeballed each other for a couple of years and then the dude just died from stress. Stress of being a rip off artist.

I have a couple of customers try to rip me off in the last 4 years. I operate mainly in my small upper middle class town so the cops and city knows me very well. The first one turned to be under federal tax evasion charges and the second one was in the middle of a divorce for taking pictures of his daughter's friends while they were staying over in the nude. In both cases, without knowing the character of these 2, I asked the city to file theft of services charges and in both cases they agreed to prosecute and in both the rip off customers paid the bill.

It is an unusual person that will have a lot of work done and feel they owe nothing because of a small glitch that could be rectified.


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## tree md (Jul 1, 2009)

treevet said:


> You could count on one hand the number of clients that have ripped me off in the forty years I have been in business and still have 2 fingers to spare. But I remember all 3 of them and have contemplated paybacks like tossing a gallon of paint through the front picture window with the top completely loosened.
> 
> One of them had me leaving their property between the dad and son who was holding a 2 by 4 and the mom saying "don't do it" while I walked through them with a large chain saw file sticking out of my hand just waiting for him to swing.
> 
> ...



Treevet, you sound like the kind of men that I learned this business from. I'd like to meet you someday and shake your hand.


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## treevet (Jul 1, 2009)

tree md said:


> Treevet, you sound like the kind of men that I learned this business from. I'd like to meet you someday and shake your hand.



I'd be honored to meet you too, tree md


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## ropensaddle (Jul 1, 2009)

treevet said:


> I'd be honored to meet you too, tree md



Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet the start of a get together Hey Ar is half way friends and I would enjoy meeting ya'all too Maybe still sawin could roust some of those red heads:monkey:


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 1, 2009)

The ruined pool filter story is a crock of crap. I've owned a large, in-ground pool with a DE filter for over twenty years, now. Lots of stuff goes into the pool and the filter catches it in the strainer and pump cup. If you dumped a load of sawdust into the pool, and I mean a ton of the stuff, it might get into the impeller and jam the pump, but that is cleanable. If it made it to the filter elements and clogged them, a back-wash would solve the problem or, at worst, the filter would need to be opened and the filter elements hosed. Big deal. A pool guy should do the job for no more than $100-150, depending on the market you're in. If the job had a high-end charge, and you have much to gain over the pool filter cleaning fee, I would definitely tell the :censored: that you are going to take legal action to recover the balance due after the pool is back in shape. Make sure you get a copy of any bills that are involved with the same. It is your right to fix any problem you are alleged to have caused, so don't let this weasel slip a couple of bucks to his pool guy buddy for an inflated bill. Bring in your own pool guy. Again, you absolutely have that right. If it is denied you, that will not look good for the :censored: in court, and you should recover.


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## mckeetree (Jul 1, 2009)

Sunrise Guy said:


> The ruined pool filter story is a crock of crap. I've owned a large, in-ground pool with a DE filter for over twenty years, now. Lots of stuff goes into the pool and the filter catches it in the strainer and pump cup. If you dumped a load of sawdust into the pool, and I mean a ton of the stuff, it might get into the impeller and jam the pump, but that is cleanable. If it made it to the filter elements and clogged them, a back-wash would solve the problem or, at worst, the filter would need to be opened and the filter elements hosed. Big deal. A pool guy should do the job for no more than $100-150, depending on the market you're in. If the job had a high-end charge, and you have much to gain over the pool filter cleaning fee, I would definitely tell the :censored: that you are going to take legal action to recover the balance due after the pool is back in shape. Make sure you get a copy of any bills that are involved with the same. It is your right to fix any problem you are alleged to have caused, so don't let this weasel slip a couple of bucks to his pool guy buddy for an inflated bill. Bring in your own pool guy. Again, you absolutely have that right. If it is denied you, that will not look good for the :censored: in court, and you should recover.



I like what you are saying and I agree with you but this whole ordeal with the pool is just wearing me down. I have been so fortunate over the years to have been beaten out of very little money. And I have been in business 23 years. Maybe it is just my turn. BTW, I read where that They Might Be Monkeys bunch got accredited. One guy looked like he had a tattooded on beard or something. I know that is your neck of the woods and wondered whats up with that.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 3, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> I like what you are saying and I agree with you but this whole ordeal with the pool is just wearing me down. I have been so fortunate over the years to have been beaten out of very little money. And I have been in business 23 years. Maybe it is just my turn. BTW, I read where that They Might Be Monkeys bunch got accredited. One guy looked like he had a tattooded on beard or something. I know that is your neck of the woods and wondered whats up with that.



Nevic is a good guy and very active in TX-ISA and ISA functions, where he serves in organizational and managerial capacities. He has a Maori-style chin tattoo and stretched lobes. I liked his honesty in the article where he says that the TCIA accreditation is unlikely to help get him more business, down here, but that it helped him get more organized, office-wise. He has posted in here, before. I believe it was in reference to some specific TX-ISA function that was coming up.


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## mckeetree (Jul 3, 2009)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Nevic is a good guy and very active in TX-ISA and ISA functions, where he serves in organizational and managerial capacities. He has a Maori-style chin tattoo and stretched lobes. I liked his honesty in the article where he says that the TCIA accreditation is unlikely to help get him more business, down here, but that it helped him get more organized, office-wise. He has posted in here, before. I believe it was in reference to some specific TX-ISA function that was coming up.




Well I don't hold having a Maori-style chin tattoo against anyone even though I don't know what that is. My foreman saw it in the picture and said "Look at this guy, he has grease or something all over his chin. I said "No way. Nobody would get their picture taken for a mag photo with grease all over their chin." He said "Well, if it's not grease, it's chicken mess." Glad we both got straight on that one.


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## treeclimber101 (Jul 7, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> $1,375.00


Are you nuts 1300 hundred dollars and your all willy nilly about it , thats BS you need to pull your head out of the clouds and go get your money , I'm still chasing this woman from 5yrs ago for 1200 and I've now added interest to that number so I'll wait til she sells her house and probably wind up with twice the original number. Good luck ....


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## ropensaddle (Jul 7, 2009)

treeclimber101 said:


> Are you nuts 1300 hundred dollars and your all willy nilly about it , thats BS you need to pull your head out of the clouds and go get your money , I'm still chasing this woman from 5yrs ago for 1200 and I've now added interest to that number so I'll wait til she sells her house and probably wind up with twice the original number. Good luck ....



I agree, are you sure you meant clouds?:monkey: In all fairness mckee prolly makes too much to take the time to collect may cost him more in time spent messing with the legal process!


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## mckeetree (Jul 7, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> I agree, are you sure you meant clouds?:monkey: In all fairness mckee prolly makes too much to take the time to collect may cost him more in time spent messing with the legal process!



I would file a lien on the property but as far as the small claims courts go I don't want to fool with all that. About 15 years ago we had a lady that was trying to stiff us for $750.00 and I went the JP court route deal. What a fiasco that was. JP ruled in our favor but no money. Still haven't got it. On the other hand this is a high profile client so things could turn out different from the fact they might not want to fool with it and pay up.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 7, 2009)

mckeetree said:


> I would file a lien on the property but as far as the small claims courts go I don't want to fool with all that. About 15 years ago we had a lady that was trying to stiff us for $750.00 and I went the JP court route deal. What a fiasco that was. JP ruled in our favor but no money. Still haven't got it. On the other hand this is a high profile client so things could turn out different from the fact they might not want to fool with it and pay up.



I agree courts suck unless your a lawyer do the lien then maybe the owner will know what his caretaker is doing behind his back.


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## Tree Pig (Jul 7, 2009)

I know a couple Italian guys from down the street that will get your money for ya, for a small cut. But then you will owe them a favor.














crap I watch too much TV


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## ropensaddle (Jul 7, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I know a couple Italian guys from down the street that will get your money for ya, for a small cut. But then you will owe them a favor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Heck man he lives in Dallas 50.00 no questions asked. There used to be an add in the paper have gun will travel lol!


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## stihlman32 (Jul 7, 2009)

The "caretaker" is a R-E-T-A-R-D! I manage a 275,000 gallon pool for a living and the amount of crap filters can take is unbelievable. Odds are the "dust" would pass through the skimmers and the skimmer bakset on the pump and get lodged in the filters. A backwash would correct, but in all reality the chips would sit in the filters and they wouldn't care. I didn't see of the filters were DE or Sand but i've seen tons of crap build up in sand filters with no consequence. Tell the caretaker to kiss your *** and get your money, the cabana boy should have done a better job of vacuuming the pool after you left!


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