# location for start up business



## PeteS (Nov 30, 2005)

I'm just wondering where some of you guys think the ideal location is to start a tree service. I would like to stay in jersey but the cost of living is crazy.


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## chicken89 (Nov 30, 2005)

shelbyville Indiana needs non-toppers. but then again, you might come here and see that the trees have years of topping done and deter you.
but hey, you you decide to come here, i am looking at getting back into tree work!


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## diltree (Nov 30, 2005)

I was on the coast of Delaware this summer....Lewes area, it would be an excellent place for an arborist to start a company, My friend lives there and he said everyone has that beach mentality, its like pulling teeth to get a landscaper, tree guy or contractor to be punctual. I assume that if you offered prompt professional service your company would grow Fast, plus there are allot of nice properties in the area; vacation homes and residences, wealthy customers provide great client base.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 30, 2005)

The edge of any large metro area seems to be good. 

What CoL expences are the worst, could you move in your general geographic area w/o having to live in the hood?

Here in the MKE area there are a number of small pockets where the housing prices have not taken off. One reason Diane and I found a home on 1.55 acres for under 180k,


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## Koa Man (Dec 1, 2005)

In Hawaii I am booked 2 months in advance and turn down 3-5 jobs a week. Not same for all tree services, but most are pretty busy. Cost of living is pretty high...your average 7500 sq. ft. house lot with a 30 year old 1600 sq. ft. house will cost you about $750-800000 where I live. Sure glad I bought my house 12 years ago. But we have year around summer, 11 of the 14 known climate conditions, the world's highest sea cliffs, the world's best observatory, the nation's highest gas prices, and we are the most isolated land mass in the world.


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## diltree (Dec 2, 2005)

Tree-Co...so your saying the coast of Delaware is not a good place for a guy from New Jersey to start a company??? I thought that all the vacation homes would be a plus for a tree and landscape company. Another plus is The cost of living is low in Delaware, in comparison to NJ, or Mass...the other thing I noticed was the companies in the area were really underdeveloped to what I'm use to in New England. You also must keep in mind...you are comparing service in Delaware to service in Georgia, while I am comparing service in Boston, or New Jersey to service in Delaware. Things move allot faster in the North East. Plus I would Love to live and work by the beach........


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## diltree (Dec 2, 2005)

Dan...its cool, no offense was taken......After spending two weeks in lewes, My impression was the coast of deleware was a great spot to start a tree company, my buddy was actually trying to talk me into opening a brach in that area so i did a little research, If my wife would move i just may have went for the idea.......


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## darkstar (Dec 2, 2005)

Lexington Kentucky would rule.


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## hobby climber (Dec 2, 2005)

PeteS - Just take a drive in the area you & your wife might like to settle and check out the condition of the trees,(potential work). Then check the local yellow pages for how many arborists or tree services there are,(competition). There are more things to consider but thats my .02 for now.


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## KentuckySawyer (Dec 2, 2005)

darkstar said:


> Lexington Kentucky would rule.





Is there another Lexington, KY that I don't know about?


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## Toddppm (Dec 3, 2005)

I have thought about the same thing, opening a tree/landscape service near De. or down by Colonial beach in Va. But seems like those are not top areas where the people who own those homes would be willing to pay a fair price for the work. Half of those homes are empty most of the year and the ones that aren't ,are living there because it's cheap and won't be willing to come off that money!

If you're willing to move and want an area like that I would look into the outer banks down in the Carolinas, more money, more people and warmer year round.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 4, 2005)

I have an idea for a location to start up a business. It's a completely hypothetical scenario, but it may work really, really well for somebody. 

Wanna hear it?


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## Schultzz (Dec 4, 2005)

*Location, Location, Location*

Most new communities have very few large trees. An old established community preferably an upscale one, (money) and good business practices, along with the right equipment, and the right skills will prove successful no matter where you go. Good luck.


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## PeteS (Dec 4, 2005)

Thanks for all the feedback - you guys have been very helpful. Now all I have to do is procure some large equipment,a small loan, insurance, business cards, signs, fliers, a place to park and I'll be set . There's a couple inches of snow in jersey and more to come so, I'm sure that list will keep me occupied for a little while. 

Treemachine, I'd like to hear your hypothetical scenerio - fire away. Any other opinions, advice and stories you guys have about starting your own companies would be helpful.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 4, 2005)

OK, hypothetical scenario. Suppose you were to seek out an established treecare business, and the owner felt he would be moving away sometime in the near future. The treeguy has been cultivating his clientele for, oh, let's make up a number.... 13 years.

So he's been in the business for thirteen years, is continuously booked, even through the Winter and has not had a break in the axction since 10 years ago when there was a really wicked snowstorm. The treeguy's clientele is over a thousand deep with all those people acting as his maketing force via their word of mouth, and in being repeat customers. The only advertising costs are business cards and estimate sheets.

Since this is 'hypothetical', let's make it juicy. Suppose that treeguy in his 13 years of work refused all work that was more than 4 minutes from his house, and let's go on to say that his chip dump sites are also within that 4 minute radius. He has tens of thousands of trees alone in the neighborhood behind him, but he ventures out into 4 distinct neighborhoods, all adjacent to each other.

What else could we do to make this fantasy picture more vivid? Theeguy works for a local brewpub (his only commercial client) and we'll say the arrangement is beneficial to all parties. The treeguy's mechanic is 1-1/2 minutes down the street. The auto electrician is three minutes the other way, 2 auto parts stores very close. What else? Treeguy has a running list of guys who want your firewood. The chips are always in demand. There are a number of parks, a num,ber of lakes and a major river, all within 5 minutes of home. The cost of living is low. He averages $500 a day.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 4, 2005)

Of course this is a scenario too good to be true, but *IF* you were able to dial into a cat such as this who would be willing to sell you his clientele, work one-on-one with you for a couple seasons, help you find nearby housing and get you fully dialled-in, up and running immediately and on the steep curve upward to being self-sustainable, would this be appealing?


Just curious.


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## Koa Man (Dec 4, 2005)

Why do you ask TM? You going to sell your business?


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## PeteS (Dec 4, 2005)

Tm this situation sounds pretty appealing - nearly perfect. The only thing lacking is scantily clad ladies dragging brush and maybe an abundance of money trees in the greater Indiana area  If your scenario is a reality I would definitely be interested, whether I could afford a buyout is another story.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 4, 2005)

It's all about keeping open to options. Pete is asking a question that many others ask, and there are opportunities out there that you may not have considered.

I pose this hypothetical scenario to open wider the scope of your vision; that your dreams are out there, somewhere, you just need to put out to the universe what it is that you want, be willing to pay the price to achieve that dream, and do what it takes to live it.

This goes for everyone, not just Pete.



Also, in my hypothetical scenario, the treeguy lives nearby a local university, so there are college babes in abundance and the 'hip' part of town is at the edge of his four neighborhoods where there are a high concentration of restaurants, bars, concert venues, hangouts where all the college babes go to party.

This is just a mental exercise. A situation like this is probably too good to ever be true.


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## Redbull (Dec 4, 2005)

This scenario that TM proposes is not uncommon in the lawn business. I have traded with and been given accts. by a few select companies in my area. It's not uncommon for guys to sell their accounts or even whole routes. Something to think about. Be weary of free accounts though. Make sure they're coming from a trusted source. You might be getting a free account, but there could be a reason it's free.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

I've given away dozens upon dozens of accounts over the years, which brings this reply right back to the opening post.

When I was a noob, I would drive all over town for what ever work was available wherever. I had no idea that getting the next job would be so incredibly simple (be patient, I will share that with you).

After two years, I figured it out, and it took me the course of another two years to undo what I had done.

I know this doesn't make any sense at the moment, but it will.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

In chasing down every call that came in, I would drive 5 Km this direction, 10 Km that direction, my dump site would be the other way..... you know what I'm talking about. My marketing was on, 100%, but my approach was way off, until my second year as the owner of my own business.

Here's the marketing, and then the mistake: I would do one or two 'free' things for the client, write them on the estimate sheet in red pen and put a big -NC- (no charge) after it. At the end of the job when doing the final walkthrough, I would let them know of the free thing(s) I did, prior to getting payment. Often they would offer to pay for the 'extra', but if not, they would be appreciative 100% of the time..... people LOVE free stuff.

I would politely refuse additional payment (think about it, whatever 'free' stuff you do is minimal and not worth charging for anyway). But the freebie was written down, and shared with the homeowner. When the thanks or acknowledgment came, then came the marketing schpeel.

*"If you're really satisfied with the work, just do me one favor. Just tell one person sometime in the future, will you do that?"*


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

Now this is more in line with marketing than it is in 'Where to start your business', but this is where it comes around to the two years of undoing what I had done, and why this is important to you. I will lead with an analogy (not to be confused with a comparison).

If a farmer is going to plant crops, does he drive 5 Km one direction to plant a seed, and 10 Km the other direction to plant another seed? No. He plants a lot of seeds in one field.

"Choose your field well." That is my reply to the opening post. Don't stray far from it if you don't have to.

I started my business and I was that crazy farmer planting seeds all over the place. My 'crops' grew like Kudzu weed and in two years I had this amazing referral network providing me business ALL OVER THE PLACE. This may seem a good thing, and for some of you, it may be, but not for me.

See, I grew up in the country, on a farm. I went to college, came to Indianapolis to finish school and WHOOPS! I fell in love with this sassy blonde chick. That's another story, but all of a sudden I am transplanted into the middle of a city situation. The following year that sassy chick told me it would be completely all right if I wanted to scrap 7 years of higher education and become a Treeguy. Enter into the industry, The Tree Machine.

Did I digress? Where was I?


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

OH, Farm kid, farmer, planting seeds, un-doing the success of my labor.

OK, one thing I have NEVER gotten used to is traffic. I've been here 13 years and I still hate driving in traffic. It is costly in both money and time. It is a horrible waste of good talent, sitting in a truck.

After the two early years in the business, I finally found my 'field' and started applying the same marketing in a more concentrated area. This worked even better, as the more you work in an area, the more business you generate by just being there. Plus you have the clients each telling one person who often lives near that original client.

BUT, I was still getting calls from a distance and when I'd drive, I would feel an opportunity cost of not then being able to generate more business closer to home. It took me two years to figure this out. Now I had to un-do what I had done.

The fact that I was now feeling a 'loss' in serving my hard-earned referral was actually a good thing. It made it easier to let them go. Cherished clientele, I had to politely tell them that I could no longer serve them. This went on for about two years. I'm not very good with saying 'no', especially to people who I had such a good relationship with (everybody).

But, over the course of time, if I would not serve them myself, I would at least offer them the name of a company that could. Eventually, I created a local, low-driving, low time in the truck, low traffic, close to home situation that I enjoy far more than I could ever express here with you. It is a dream come true, which is the point I make that you are the creator of your dreams. Just apply the magical formula of treating your clients with utmost respect, do the best tree care possible and do a magnificent, world-class cleanup. Do something free. Ask them to tell one person. Is that so magical, really? I promise, promise, promise you it will work.

Choose your field well.


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## NickfromWI (Dec 5, 2005)

JPS said it just right- on the edge of a large city. I've worked in several states across the country. Suburbs are jam-packed with people- usually with nice yards. Put yourself where people have expendible income and bigger trees (like in NJ!). Also, if you know there are no other "good" companies doing PROPER tree care, then you can step in and be the "go to guy" who actually KNOWS about trees.

More people means more employees, too.

Living near lakes can bring a lot of money as people often want vista pruning done to keep the view of the lake.

love
nick


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

Ya know, Nick, I have often wondered about renting a plane. Take the wife and kids up for an afternoon ride, and fly over hundreds and hundreds of kilometers. 

Flying over would offer you a look at tree density and people density, where mature trees are, lakes, I mean you could really cover a lot of territory. That would be after the 'Google Earth' search.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

Hey tree machine, What's a 'Google Earth' search?


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

http://earth.google.com/ and you capitalize *T*ree *M*achine, you idiot.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

Sorry.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

I'm sorry I called you an idiot.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

I Forgive You.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

Really? You are one really cool mo fo.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

Why...Thank you.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

You deserve a hug.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

You deserve an enchilada.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

I must say, THAT is finest compliment I've had all day.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

Well-deserved.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

Thank you.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

No, thank YOU.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 5, 2005)

What were we talking about?


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## Dadatwins (Dec 5, 2005)

Are you nippin' at them pain pills again TM??  

Relocating and starting over can be a real exhausting experience. My short version, I started in the tree biz with my father in NYC where I was born and raised. Then I started my own biz in NYC for a few years. After chasing the cost of living to buy a house and getting fed up with the help situation, I relocated to VA on an offer from a school friend of mine to get involved in a different type of business. Relocated my wife and 2 children (2 years old at the time) 400 miles from my home and family of 30 years to a new place where the only people I knew was the school friend and his wife who were also my boss in the new business. After a few years of the new business and many disagreements I left and started out on my own tree biz again, still in VA but now looking for dump sites, equipment contacts, and help again. It has been 8 years since I moved away and have made friends and contacts here, bought a house, and am surviving. Moving away from the comfortable surrounding of my home in NYC was one of the most difficult things I have ever done and the stress in the beginning was almost unbearable. I still get homesick once in a while but a short trip to traffic and congestion filled NYC is enough to get me back to VA, and be glad I made the move. Good luck in your search PeteS relocating can be difficult but it will probably be worth it.


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## PeteS (Dec 5, 2005)

TM put the pipe down buddy  Thanks for passing on some of your knowledge - I'll be sure to employ the magical formula. If you could invent some sort of magical stick to go along with that formula of yours' you'd be in good shape. Get out of the tree and with one wave of the stick shazzam the brush disappears. Unruly homeowners getting you down, poofff.

Anyway after careful consideration of the many factors that you guys have brought to light, I've decided that staying put is my best bet. The competition is pretty rough here, not to mention traffic and expenses, but all in all I think I'm doing the right thing. I really appreciate all the feedback from you guys.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 6, 2005)

No piping arond here, Bubba.

I was thinking of your poof schtick. There IS a magic wand for making brush go away. I give you photographic evidence......


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## xtremetrees (Dec 6, 2005)

What kinda chipper is that a bandit?


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 6, 2005)

Tree Machine (notice the Capitalization), someday, some how, I'm going to get you for that. I just about busted a gut trying not to laugh out loud while sitting here in my cube at work!  


 


Somebody had A Weird Minute!




Tree Machine said:


> Just apply the magical formula of treating your clients with utmost respect, do the best tree care possible and do a magnificent, world-class cleanup. Do something free.



Anyway, I'm not a tree pro, but I'll chip in something (get it? CHIP IN!  Oh, I kill myself!) from the consumer's side of things.

TM is dead on. I'm Joe Homeowner. If you come to my house and do a fantastic job of pruning my trees, how will I know? Do I know a good job from a mediocre one? How many Joe Homeowner's will? Yeah, some, but how many? But if you come to my house and do a lousy job of cleaning up, how will I know? Well, DUH! Do I know a good cleanup from a mediocre one? How many Joe Homeowner's will? If you come to my house and treat me with respect, how will I know? Do I know respect from disrespect? How many Joe Homeowner's will?

I think you can see where this is going.

Do a great job on my trees, but leave a mess, and I'm not going to burn up the phone lines telling my friends to call you for their tree business. And if my neighbor comes over and asks who did the good looking job on my trees, I'll tell him, but you can be SURE I'll tell him how long it took me to clean up after you. Same if you treat me with disrespect. Uh, that includes smoking on my property if you didn't ask first. That includes using foul language around my family.

While I'm on my soapbox, clean yourself up, folks! Show up with dirty, beat up, uncared for equipment and personnel, and I'm NOT going to be impressed. You don't have to have new everything, but it ought to be clean and neat. Wash your truck once in a while, for crying out loud!


I don't care how GOOD you are, a slob will not get my recommendation, and I honestly don't think I'm unusual in that respect.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 6, 2005)

Yea, what he said.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 6, 2005)




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## Tree Machine (Dec 6, 2005)




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## Tree Machine (Dec 6, 2005)




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## Tree Machine (Dec 6, 2005)

xtremetrees said:


> What kinda chipper is that a bandit?









http://treeguy.info/articlebody.php?section_id=4&article_id=14


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 7, 2005)

Captain! He's breakin' up!


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## Wife of Logger (Dec 7, 2005)

Koa Man said:


> In Hawaii I am booked 2 months in advance and turn down 3-5 jobs a week. Not same for all tree services, but most are pretty busy. Cost of living is pretty high...your average 7500 sq. ft. house lot with a 30 year old 1600 sq. ft. house will cost you about $750-800000 where I live. Sure glad I bought my house 12 years ago. But we have year around summer, 11 of the 14 known climate conditions, the world's highest sea cliffs, the world's best observatory, the nation's highest gas prices, and we are the most isolated land mass in the world.



We (I & my H) were just in Maui. He also thought about tree service type of work there. We thought how fabulous it would be to live there! We asked locals and they said "no logging, but there is a need for “tree” removal." Ya homes are pricey.

FIY: We loved Maui can’t wait to go back!


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## Tree Machine (Jan 5, 2006)

I really think this is worthy of everyone reading again. Another magic formula:


BlueRidgeMark said:


> I'm Joe Homeowner. If you come to my house and do a fantastic job of pruning my trees, how will I know? Do I know a good job from a mediocre one? How many Joe Homeowner's will? Yeah, some, but how many? But if you come to my house and do a lousy job of cleaning up, how will I know? Well, DUH! Do I know a good cleanup from a mediocre one? How many Joe Homeowner's will? If you come to my house and treat me with respect, how will I know? Do I know respect from disrespect? How many Joe Homeowner's will?
> 
> I think you can see where this is going.
> 
> ...


Duly noted. Thank you.


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