# The Stihl MS661 C-M recall



## windthrown (Jan 25, 2014)

OK, so this topic has been floated on several other threads, and on may different global forums. I thought I would add a separate thread just on the 661 C-M recall on the AS forum. If you have any information on this, please feel free to post it here. Stihl has been pretty tight lipped about what the problems are with the production models of the 661. Apparently the problems did not occur in the field and beta testing of the test saws, or the problems were not found in those saws until there were problems found in the production run saws.

What I read in the Google translated German arbor forums is that all the 661C-M saws in Germany were recalled, and loaner 660s were given out to anyone that had bought a 661. In the UK, from reading their forums, there was no complete recall, and it is up to buyers if they want to return the saws or not. Here in the US it seems to be a voluntary recall if you want to return or keep them, but not many 661 C-M saws were actually sold in the US (or in the UK or Germany, for that matter). Most distributors had not gotten or shipped these saws in the US. Most unsold, recalled and returned saws have supposedly been collected and shipped back to Germany. Some are said to still be on shelves for sale in the US and the UK, and some are certainly still in the hands of the people that bought them in the US and UK. It is not well known if all saws are affected, or just some saws in the original production run.

As for what the actual problems are with the new 661 saws: several reports from Germany and the UK are that some saws just stopped running completely after running OK for a while, or they started running poorly all of a sudden, or they ran poorly from the start. One supposition is that there are problems with the ignition modules. Another more likely supposition is that there are problems with the cylinders in the production run. I have talked to several Stihl dealers here in this area about them. Most sales guys at the local shops do not know any more than we do here about these saws. Some are not even aware that the 661 had come out at all, or that there was any problem with them. The most informed dealer told me, "...you do not want any of the current 661s out there, and you want to wait until the problems are resolved in the re-released saws before you buy one". He and other dealers have told me that the 660 is again in production, and they have 660s for sale there on the shelves. I asked when the 661 would be available, and I got several answers. It seems that they will not be available in these parts until at least mid-year. According to the German forums, they have been told that it will likely be Q2 of this year before they re-release 661 there.


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## splitpost (Jan 25, 2014)

Its probbly just hearsay but i read it on another forum and it mentioned something about weak cranks ,and that the revised cranks will be beefier to correct whatever the weakness is.............dunno


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## xxl (Jan 26, 2014)

I dont mind my ms 660


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## blsnelling (Jan 26, 2014)

Not good. At least they pulled them rather than sell saws with problems.


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## mdavlee (Jan 26, 2014)

It sucks never the less. I wanted one but the want went away. At least I did get to handle and run one.


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## Stihl 041S (Jan 26, 2014)

Better now than later. 
Fess up when there is trouble. 
Like the Ford 6.zero. They could have fixed it.


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## mdavlee (Jan 26, 2014)

Stihl 041S said:


> Better now than later.
> Fess up when there is trouble.
> Like the Ford 6.zero. They could have fixed it.



I probably would have been upset if I had to give up my new saw so I guess this is good. Oh well maybe I can get one in a box needing a piston here in a year or so. 

I talked with a guy at the IH dealer about the 6.0. He said they tried to pack it into a space it wasn't designed to fit. He said the warranty rate on them in the mid size IH trucks was 10% or so instead of the 30-40% it was on the F series.


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## Knobby57 (Jan 26, 2014)

I love my 6.0 psd . Head studs and toss that egr cooler in the trash and a couple updated oil stand pipes and it's a rock solid towing machine. IH had less issues because if they acme in for any egr or coolant issue they got reman heads and updated egr cooler and all the goodies in one shot. Ford just patched them back together and hoped they made it out of warenty


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## flotek (Jan 26, 2014)

This is why I reconsidered a cm 362
I think they just haven't got it ironed out yet electronically . It is my understanding these technology's are derived from husqvarna initially and stihl hasn't got the kinks as refined


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## Stihl 041S (Jan 26, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> I love my 6.0 psd . Head studs and toss that egr cooler in the trash and a couple updated oil stand pipes and it's a rock solid towing machine. IH had less issues because if they acme in for any egr or coolant issue they got reman heads and updated egr cooler and all the goodies in one shot. Ford just patched them back together and hoped they made it out of warenty


They could be good.
In the same time Dodge and GM had a total of 8 recalls. The 6.0 had 77. 
They pushed the design load too high. 
And when you have do a load of repairs on a new motor. I don't feel good about it.


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## Knobby57 (Jan 26, 2014)

Recalls and updated parts isn't quite the same thing, but yes the ford 6.0 psd is laden with a lot of very common issues. It's not if the egr cooler will go its more of when. And please god let is start one more time is said way to often when you have a high pressure oil leak ,....Cummins lots of power and good for many miles but also not without it's issues.4000 $ when the injectors fail in the post injector pump motors. And you have to deal with the worst tarnnies ever along with that joke of a soda can of a truck they bolt around the motor, the AM axles are crap blowing cariers and front wheel bearings every 50k And no lockout hubs , Then we have the chevy durimax .... Fantastic riding truck, no real front axle . Absolutely no power , Alison trans is fantastic. Brakes mediocre for a 1 ton truck and a sub par frame . We need a cummins motor , Alison trans , ford rears and frame and brakes , and a Chevy body and interior and then wow we got a great truck ,that should only cost 100 k lol. They are all crap for the 50 -70 k we spend on them . Kind of like chainsaws . Pick your own flavor they are all good or bad in their own ways none better than the others as far as being without issues . They are all machines , if you expect them to be perfect you will eventually be diapointed


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## fastLeo151 (Jan 26, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> Recalls and updated parts isn't quite the same thing, but yes the ford 6.0 psd is laden with a lot of very common issues. It's not if the egr cooler will go its more of when. And please god let is start one more time is said way to often when you have a high pressure oil leak ,....Cummins lots of power and good for many miles but also not without it's issues.4000 $ when the injectors fail in the post injector pump motors. And you have to deal with the worst tarnnies ever along with that joke of a soda can of a truck they bolt around the motor, the AM axles are crap blowing cariers and front wheel bearings every 50k And no lockout hubs , Then we have the chevy durimax .... Fantastic riding truck, no real front axle . Absolutely no power , Alison trans is fantastic. Brakes mediocre for a 1 ton truck and a sub par frame . We need a cummins motor , Alison trans , ford rears and frame and brakes , and a Chevy body and interior and then wow we got a great truck ,that should only cost 100 k lol. They are all crap for the 50 -70 k we spend on them . Kind of like chainsaws . Pick your own flavor they are all good or bad in their own ways none better than the others as far as being without issues . They are all machines , if you expect them to be perfect you will eventually be diapointed



What about the new 6.7......that everyone loves


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## Knobby57 (Jan 26, 2014)

6.7 ford made in Mexico is still fracturing valves in the medium duty trucks, and in 1 tons having trans issues and a few drivability issues, cummins 6.7 emissions related issues egr and particulate filter issue. Need to change the ECM program not sure if you can still get a programmer that will let you delete the egr and put a regular exhaust on. Like I said nothing is without issues, but for the most part the majority of the problems on modern diesels is emissions related , so more or less post 2003 . It's hard to make something run clean using filthy fuel to start with . And now we have to use ultra low sulfer fuel . That is another issue the process to remove e sulfer actually removes the lubricating factor in the fuel witch hammers the injectors


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## fastLeo151 (Jan 26, 2014)

I haven't heard anything bad about a ford 6.7 before


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## Knobby57 (Jan 26, 2014)

I have a few freinds that work at a truck repair shop, mostly medium duty trucks and they are inundated on the amount of drivability issues on the new trucks . It used to be if they started you where good to go now with emissions check engine light you get no power and crappy fuel economy , larger trucks are just getting the emissions the 1tons and regular trucks had 10 years ago, .. Emissions is also why you not going to see cat motors in large trucks anymore. Cat makes a killing with machinery and does not want there rep tarnished by issues with over the road trucks


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## Stihl 041S (Jan 27, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> Recalls and updated parts isn't quite the same thing, but yes the ford 6.0 psd is laden with a lot of very common issues. It's not if the egr cooler will go its more of when. And please god let is start one more time is said way to often when you have a high pressure oil leak ,....Cummins lots of power and good for many miles but also not without it's issues.4000 $ when the injectors fail in the post injector pump motors. And you have to deal with the worst tarnnies ever along with that joke of a soda can of a truck they bolt around the motor, the AM axles are crap blowing cariers and front wheel bearings every 50k And no lockout hubs , Then we have the chevy durimax .... Fantastic riding truck, no real front axle . Absolutely no power , Alison trans is fantastic. Brakes mediocre for a 1 ton truck and a sub par frame . We need a cummins motor , Alison trans , ford rears and frame and brakes , and a Chevy body and interior and then wow we got a great truck ,that should only cost 100 k lol. They are all crap for the 50 -70 k we spend on them . Kind of like chainsaws . Pick your own flavor they are all good or bad in their own ways none better than the others as far as being without issues . They are all machines , if you expect them to be perfect you will eventually be diapointed


We are solidly derailed now. Lol
I gave the 6.0 low grades as an engine that had problems. 
The point wasn't to bash it. 
But to say Stihl is trying to prevent warrenty problems. 
Which I feel ford didn't. 
They let it go too long. Stihl isn't.


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## Knobby57 (Jan 27, 2014)

Stihl 041S said:


> We are solidly derailed now. Lol
> I gave the 6.0 low grades as an engine that had problems.
> The point wasn't to bash it.
> But to say Stihl is trying to prevent warrenty problems.
> ...



You are very correct . It is nice to see Stihl step up and recall the 661 , for a smaller company reputation is everything so I'm thinking whatever issue the 661 has must be pretty awful. It would be hard to get past one of there mainstay saws blowing up all over the place


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## Stihl 041S (Jan 27, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> You are very correct . It is nice to see Stihl step up and recall the 661 , for a smaller company reputation is everything so I'm thinking whatever issue the 661 has must be pretty awful. It would be hard to get past one of there mainstay saws blowing up all over the place


And it wouldnt be repair either. Ford did repair. Good for them. 
For Stihl it would be replace.


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## Knobby57 (Jan 27, 2014)

Ford chevy and dodge where never much for standing behind there products .. I know still gave a pile of new 441 s to customers after the crank smoked on them , my local dealer still has a few laying in his shop they never called back


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## bootboy (Jan 27, 2014)

I just wish they'd nailed it the first time. Cuz I'd be saving my pennies


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## tree monkey (Jan 27, 2014)

the stihl rep told me the saws do not pass epa


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## windthrown (Jan 27, 2014)

tree monkey said:


> the stihl rep told me the saws do not pass epa


 
Not really possible any more. They would not have sold any here if that were the case. They have to be EPA tested and approved before they hit the US shelves. New EPA methods and product control are in place on the factory and import side to prevent that. Also, they have been recalled worldwide, not just here. But an amusing story, nonetheless. The real reason that Stihl is going with M-tronic is that new EU smog laws are getting a lot tougher, so this round of smog updates is actually more EU driven than US driven, and the M-tronic saws should all sail through the current EPA testing requirements.
.


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## windthrown (Jan 27, 2014)

Heard from some buddies in the UK today that they are hearing what I was told here; that the 661 will be re-released in the April-May timeframe. That is also what I am reading on the German arbor forums, so... it looks like mid year before the 661 beastie returns. Also it seems far more likely to be a mechanical issue like cranks and cylinders, than the electronics. Electronics could be swapped out and SW easily updated in the field. Jugs and/or cranks... not easy.


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## CR888 (Jan 27, 2014)

flotek said:


> This is why I reconsidered a cm 362
> I think they just haven't got it ironed out yet electronically . It is my understanding these technology's are derived from husqvarna initially and stihl hasn't got the kinks as refined



The stihl system is pretty rock solid...less probs than Husky thats for sure. Even the husky system ain't bad. Talk to the guys that work on them and get the 'real story'. Its like any new technological advancement, you always find a loud crowd that cans it. (people are scared of things they don't understand) I say its the sole biggest improvement in 20 or so years in ***. Geez it senses air leaks and prevents lean siezure, takes the human error factor away from lean carb siezure, tunes your engine X amount of times per second always giving you the best performance regardless of conditions and so on. Remember the feared 'strato' engine...did'nt that turn out to be scary.


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## CR888 (Jan 27, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Not really possible any more. They would not have sold any here if that were the case. They have to be EPA tested and approved before they hit the US shelves. New EPA methods and product control are in place on the factory and import side to prevent that. Also, they have been recalled worldwide, not just here. But an amusing story, nonetheless. The real reason that Stihl is going with M-tronic is that new EU smog laws are getting a lot tougher, so this round of smog updates is actually more EU driven than US driven, and the M-tronic saws should all sail through the current EPA testing requirements.
> .


 l like windthrown posts, he's been puttin lots of usefull stuff on the table lately!


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## windthrown (Jan 27, 2014)

As for latest tech, I read/hear that Stihl is putting its design energy into a new 'I' line of chainsaws: Fuel Injection. Which is another reason for developing the precursor M-tronic computer modules and engine control units. They already have developed FI in some of the cutoff saws.


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## flotek (Jan 27, 2014)

I build two stroke drag engines for Atv sleds and dirt bikes ..When injection comes you'll be getting some big advancement in power and efficiency . Fuel injected engines are in their infancy in production two cycles but the ones tested and developed by race shops have made big power in the race community . It's not like on a four stroke ..This could realistically offer. 50% more power in some cases


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## mdavlee (Jan 27, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> Recalls and updated parts isn't quite the same thing, but yes the ford 6.0 psd is laden with a lot of very common issues. It's not if the egr cooler will go its more of when. And please god let is start one more time is said way to often when you have a high pressure oil leak ,....Cummins lots of power and good for many miles but also not without it's issues.4000 $ when the injectors fail in the post injector pump motors. And you have to deal with the worst tarnnies ever along with that joke of a soda can of a truck they bolt around the motor, the AM axles are crap blowing cariers and front wheel bearings every 50k And no lockout hubs , Then we have the chevy durimax .... Fantastic riding truck, no real front axle . Absolutely no power , Alison trans is fantastic. Brakes mediocre for a 1 ton truck and a sub par frame . We need a cummins motor , Alison trans , ford rears and frame and brakes , and a Chevy body and interior and then wow we got a great truck ,that should only cost 100 k lol. They are all crap for the 50 -70 k we spend on them . Kind of like chainsaws . Pick your own flavor they are all good or bad in their own ways none better than the others as far as being without issues . They are all machines , if you expect them to be perfect you will eventually be diapointed



Cummins still uses an injection pump. I don't know where you got the $4k for parts either. The pump and a new set of injectors is $2500. 

I hope stihl will get the 661 fixed up soon. They really seem to be a step forward from the 660 to me.


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## zogger (Jan 27, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> Recalls and updated parts isn't quite the same thing, but yes the ford 6.0 psd is laden with a lot of very common issues. It's not if the egr cooler will go its more of when. And please god let is start one more time is said way to often when you have a high pressure oil leak ,....Cummins lots of power and good for many miles but also not without it's issues.4000 $ when the injectors fail in the post injector pump motors. And you have to deal with the worst tarnnies ever along with that joke of a soda can of a truck they bolt around the motor, the AM axles are crap blowing cariers and front wheel bearings every 50k And no lockout hubs , Then we have the chevy durimax .... Fantastic riding truck, no real front axle . Absolutely no power , Alison trans is fantastic. Brakes mediocre for a 1 ton truck and a sub par frame . We need a cummins motor , Alison trans , ford rears and frame and brakes , and a Chevy body and interior and then wow we got a great truck ,that should only cost 100 k lol. They are all crap for the 50 -70 k we spend on them . Kind of like chainsaws . Pick your own flavor they are all good or bad in their own ways none better than the others as far as being without issues . They are all machines , if you expect them to be perfect you will eventually be diapointed



Well, your hybrid, or I would like something like a toyota hilux diesel 4x4 one ton.

You see the top gear try to kill it episodes with their little half ton, and then pictures in the third world with 28 people, luggage and goats stacked up two stories high being driven constantly with no roads, well..there's tough, then there's tough....


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## zogger (Jan 27, 2014)

Anyway, back on topic. Computer controlled is the future, I am confident they will get it sorted out.


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## Knobby57 (Jan 27, 2014)

Th


mdavlee said:


> Cummins still uses an injection pump. I don't know where you got the $4k for parts either. The pump and a new set of injectors is $2500.
> 
> I hope stihl will get the 661 fixed up soon. They really seem to be a step forward from the 660 to me.



Your information is incorrect , the no longer use a mechanical driven injector pump , they use something more along the lines of a gas fuel injector not a nozzle , I just did my brothers 3 months a ago factory reman injector 470 each, lines to the injectors another 150. Fuel filters and valve cover gasket . 4 knif I charged labor that was on a 2004


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## firebrick43 (Jan 27, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Not really possible any more. They would not have sold any here if that were the case. They have to be EPA tested and approved before they hit the US shelves. New EPA methods and product control are in place on the factory and import side to prevent that. Also, they have been recalled worldwide, not just here. But an amusing story, nonetheless. The real reason that Stihl is going with M-tronic is that new EU smog laws are getting a lot tougher, so this round of smog updates is actually more EU driven than US driven, and the M-tronic saws should all sail through the current EPA testing requirements.
> .




I don't work on the 2cycle side but large diesels. I know for a fact that engines can pass emissions at the factory test cells and 100 hours or so down the road fail emissions. That is why you see either the 50, 150, or 300 hour EPA warranty depending if it's a homeowners or pro saw. If the spot check(and they do) several engines and they fail then the company has to recall and are accessed major fines. 

Carb, or the California air resource board are real nazis about this.


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## Knobby57 (Jan 27, 2014)

Wouldn't it be a real SOB if they bring back the 661 with 2 hp less after having to adjust to meet emissions , wish I got one when I could have


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## Chris-PA (Jan 27, 2014)

flotek said:


> I build two stroke drag engines for Atv sleds and dirt bikes ..When injection comes you'll be getting some big advancement in power and efficiency . Fuel injected engines are in their infancy in production two cycles but the ones tested and developed by race shops have made big power in the race community . It's not like on a four stroke ..This could realistically offer. 50% more power in some cases


Since I doubt they will be doing direct cylinder injection on a chainsaw, can you tell what advantages injection into the case would have over AT/MT? I do not see a single one, other than an attempt to get around paying royalties.


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## mdavlee (Jan 27, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> Th
> 
> 
> Your information is incorrect , the no longer use a mechanical driven injector pump , they use something more along the lines of a gas fuel injector not a nozzle , I just did my brothers 3 months a ago factory reman injector 470 each, lines to the injectors another 150. Fuel filters and valve cover gasket . 4 knif I charged labor that was on a 2004



The CP3 is driven off a gear above the camshaft. It feeds the rail with one line. I was buying injectors for $300 a pop in 2009. Never bought lines. I've had 7 of the common rails and run them up to 600 hp daily drivers. I've done over $100k in mods to my trucks and bought a few CPs and injectors


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## CR500 (Jan 27, 2014)

flotek said:


> I build two stroke drag engines for Atv sleds and dirt bikes ..When injection comes you'll be getting some big advancement in power and efficiency . Fuel injected engines are in their infancy in production two cycles but the ones tested and developed by race shops have made big power in the race community . It's not like on a four stroke ..This could realistically offer. 50% more power in some cases



I believe ISR is mndating EFI for SnoCross sleds for 2015.... I think Polaris will have to sadly change the chassis I love that IQR chassis do much I may buy one.


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## mdavlee (Jan 27, 2014)

I wish the FI would go ahead and come out. Maybe then we wouldn't have to mess with the carb cleanings.


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## redtractor (Jan 27, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> I wish the FI would go ahead and come out. Maybe then we wouldn't have to mess with the carb cleanings.


Seems like we'll be trading routine carb cleaning for a whole new world of head scratching.


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## sarge3604 (Jan 27, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> I probably would have been upset if I had to give up my new saw so I guess this is good. Oh well maybe I can get one in a box needing a piston here in a year or so.
> 
> I talked with a guy at the IH dealer about the 6.0. He said they tried to pack it into a space it wasn't designed to fit. He said the warranty rate on them in the mid size IH trucks was 10% or so instead of the 30-40% it was on the F series.


I dont know why that would be a problem they fit a 7.3 in that chassis and im a cummins guy but the 7.3 was a great engine


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## mdavlee (Jan 27, 2014)

sarge3604 said:


> I dont know why that would be a problem they fit a 7.3 in that chassis and im a cummins guy but the 7.3 was a great engine



It didn't have any egr stuff and the egr cooler shoved under there.


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## mdavlee (Jan 27, 2014)

sarge3604 said:


> I dont know why that would be a problem they fit a 7.3 in that chassis and im a cummins guy but the 7.3 was a great engine



It didn't have any egr stuff and the egr cooler shoved under there.


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## CR500 (Jan 27, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> It didn't have any egr stuff and the egr cooler shoved under there.



Very True... neither did the B series engines that were in the first and second gen Dodges. The LB7 Duramax also was not being chocked back.


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## KingDavey (Jan 27, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> I have a few freinds that work at a truck repair shop, mostly medium duty trucks and they are inundated on the amount of drivability issues on the new trucks . It used to be if they started you where good to go now with emissions check engine light you get no power and crappy fuel economy , larger trucks are just getting the emissions the 1tons and regular trucks had 10 years ago, .. Emissions is also why you not going to see cat motors in large trucks anymore. Cat makes a killing with machinery and does not want there rep tarnished by issues with over the road trucks



Ahem...
http://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/on-highway-trucks/on-highway-trucks/18463770.html


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## MustangMike (Jan 27, 2014)

flotek said:


> This is why I reconsidered a cm 362
> I think they just haven't got it ironed out yet electronically . It is my understanding these technology's are derived from husqvarna initially and stihl hasn't got the kinks as refined



It sound like the problems with the 661 may be mechanical, not related to M-Tronic. The 261 C-M and 441 C-M saws are getting rave reviews, and the few people with 362 C-Ms out there (including me) seem to love them also. My little 362 C-M runs much stronger than it should, and no problems thus far.


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## Knobby57 (Jan 27, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> The CP3 is driven off a gear above the camshaft. It feeds the rail with one line. I was buying injectors for $300 a pop in 2009. Never bought lines. I've had 7 of the common rails and run them up to 600 hp daily drivers. I've done over $100k in mods to my trucks and bought a few CPs and injectors


Yes you can find less inexpensive injectors , but I know the factory ones work. I hate doing the same job twice . And the cp is a high pressure pump. It's not a injection pump that is a mechanical timed pump that manually forces fuel at high pressure built up by said injector pump , through injectors that are basically a complicated garden hose nozzle . But on a whole , this is one of the best fuel systems ever put on a diesel so far . And that sounds like a bad azz truck mine is a beater work truck that only gets started when it's pulling aiming or pushing something


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## Knobby57 (Jan 27, 2014)

KingDavey said:


> Ahem...
> http://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/on-highway-trucks/on-highway-trucks/18463770.html


Partial information is a form of ignorance .
Bonjour I'm a French model . 
I just bought a pile of cat stock a few months ago and I researched it for over a month . if you dig deeper you will find the majority of those (cat) motors are made by Navastar/international with some cat fuel parts. Hmm maybe it's a cat ford ( I won't tell you what country they are made in ) .i do believe they still offer one of 2 but are scaling back . and with very little digging you can find all sorts of info on how they where having issues with Meeting emissions and urea. Mid size trucks in the last few years have gotten very tite on emissions in the last few years making it very hard to get a mid size truck with a cat now . Used to be able to get f700 or k6500 with a cat option .but even large trucks and equipment or even ship engines have to meet some level of emissions now


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## Rockjock (Jan 27, 2014)

The odd thing I am finding in all this is the dealers I know in Germany not only have the 661 in stock but they are selling it it quite well. Asking a bloke I know point blank he said " das ist unmöglich, 40 Jahre mit stihl so würde ich wissen " that's impossible 40 years with Stihl so I should know. he went on to say if it were so he would not have any for sale nor could he get more. So i am sure there is more to this than meets the eyes.


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## Milkman31 (Jan 27, 2014)

Maybe we could just hook this to the 661? It works wonders on the 6.7 cummins lol!


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## CR500 (Jan 27, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> It didn't have any egr stuff and the egr cooler shoved under there.



COrrection their was a 7.3 was made to burn "clean" California models had different injectors and different wiring harness


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## windthrown (Jan 28, 2014)

Rockjock said:


> The odd thing I am finding in all this is the dealers I know in Germany not only have the 661 in stock but they are selling it it quite well. Asking a bloke I know point blank he said " das ist unmöglich, 40 Jahre mit stihl so würde ich wissen " _ that's impossible 40 years with Stihl so I should know._ he went on to say if it were so he would not have any for sale nor could he get more. So i am sure there is more to this than meets the eyes.


 
Well, many people here in the US have been with Stihl a long time and they know little about the 661 issues. Also this is the opposite of what is being posted on various arbor sites in Germany as well as the UK. My only guess is that he returned saws from the US and UK are being tested/inspected and sold locally in Germany? But that still contradicts what arborists are saying in Germany, that they cannot buy any 661s and were told they would not be available until Q2...


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## Rockjock (Jan 28, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Well, many people here in the US have been with Stihl a long time and they know little about the 661 issues. Also this is the opposite of what is being posted on various arbor sites in Germany as well as the UK. My only guess is that he returned saws from the US and UK are being tested/inspected and sold locally in Germany? But that still contradicts what arborists are saying in Germany, that they cannot buy any 661s and were told they would not be available until Q2...



I can't comment on the US or Canadian dealers but it is odd that the dealer I know is not in the loop. He is pretty high up there. Also his saws are new in a box because he joked about how easy it would be for me to ship them. I did call up a family friend that has a smallish dealership and he said he did not have any but could order me one if I wanted. So I am curious what area they are in? Also a bloke in Poland was commenting on how much he loved his. I have a feeling this recall may have been just for a limited production run. Hopefully more info will come to light on exactly what the issue is. Some say carb others have said it was a cylinder issue even the electronics. But no definitive answer


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## Typhke (Jan 28, 2014)

Recently noticed that they have replaced the MS660 on the Belgium website with the 661. This happened after the recall started, just a couple of days ago. The 660 is no longer in the list. Don't know if any of the 2 is available, I'll check with my dealer next week.


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## firebrick43 (Jan 28, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> Partial information is a form of ignorance .
> Bonjour I'm a French model .
> I just bought a pile of cat stock a few months ago and I researched it for over a month . if you dig deeper you will find the majority of those (cat) motors are made by Navastar/international with some cat fuel parts. Hmm maybe it's a cat ford ( I won't tell you what country they are made in ) .i do believe they still offer one of 2 but are scaling back . and with very little digging you can find all sorts of info on how they where having issues with Meeting emissions and urea. Mid size trucks in the last few years have gotten very tite on emissions in the last few years making it very hard to get a mid size truck with a cat now . Used to be able to get f700 or k6500 with a cat option .but even large trucks and equipment or even ship engines have to meet some level of emissions now



Actually you have it backwards. The basic block assembly is made by cat and the fuel/emission system by navistar. Same goes for the large max force engine. Allows them to share the same certification and therefore millions. Remember however that cat and navistar have had a long relationship. The cat huei on the 3126/c7 and the 7.3 fuel system were co developed and operated the same. 

The real reason cat got out of the truck market is that freight liner/ meceades/Detroit decided that why let cat put motors in our trucks. The Volvo/Mack joined and said the same thing. Paccar which is peterbuilt/kW started develop their own engine and in the interim used only cummins, paccar was cat biggest on road customer. So only navistar was left and they never did a large 12-15l engine so cat sells them a short block and they put the fuel systems on them. Neither one had market share alone to make the multi million dollar EPA certification alone. The new cat truck is made by navistar to cats design and uses cat transmission(auto) and cat electronics. 
They are only sold for vocational use which is not a strong market segment for navistar.


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## windthrown (Jan 29, 2014)

Rockjock said:


> I can't comment on the US or Canadian dealers but it is odd that the dealer I know is not in the loop. He is pretty high up there. Also his saws are new in a box because he joked about how easy it would be for me to ship them. I did call up a family friend that has a smallish dealership and he said he did not have any but could order me one if I wanted. So I am curious what area they are in? Also a bloke in Poland was commenting on how much he loved his. I have a feeling this recall may have been just for a limited production run. Hopefully more info will come to light on exactly what the issue is. Some say carb others have said it was a cylinder issue even the electronics. But no definitive answer


 
They all come in boxes to dealers here, through distributors. As for shipping, they are not supposed to do that, and Stihl frowns on people shipping new saws anywhere.

There have been several 'reports' that the 661s were bad that were shipped someplace else: in Germany they say it was the batch that went to the UK, in the UK they say its the batch that they sent to the US. In the US they say it was the saws in the EU, etc. However, there have been bad 661 saws reported in all of those locations (as well as people saying that their 661s are running fine). There have also been reports that there are still some 661s on shelves at several dealers in North America and in the UK, as well as in Germany. Feedback is spotty and it is inconsistent. In many cases dealers are unaware of what is happening. In the US markets, dealers are assigned to regional distributors and order and communicate through those distributors, and they generally do not have direct lines to the company (in VA or in Germany).

From what several dealers have told me here is that all the saws that were shipped to US distributors that were not yet shipped to dealers were shipped back to Germany. That is the same as what I have read on the UK arbor forums. The saws that were shipped to stores were left up to the dealerships as to their returning them or not. Stihl claims this is not a recall, but they have rounded up a lot of 661 saws from the US, the UK and Germany. In Germany the guys that had problems with the 661s were given loaner 660s, and not replacement 661s. Meanwhile here in the states, dealers are also telling customers that they are cranking up production on 660s again and that the 661 will not be available until mid year (at the earliest). The 661s were not available here in the western US before the 'recall' and they are not going to be available here until the issues are resolved (whatever they are). If it were a bad batch issue, they would just crank out more 661s and ship them. However, they are producing 660s instead, so that tells you that there is a serious problem with the early model 661s.

Stihl obviously wants to keep a tight lid on this issue, as it is their new big model saw. Husky is having a field day in the UK right now, as people that ordered 661s there never got them, or they got them and they failed on them. The 661s were rounded up and shipped back to Germany and the 660s were in tight supply there and so for the time being they have not been able to get 90cc Stihl saws. And meanwhile, as you say, the 661 is hitting Stihl web sites in the UK and the EU. But the word on the street is that they cannot be bought in the UK. So the web site information is misleading.


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## windthrown (Jan 29, 2014)

Here is a post in the UK on an arbor site about what they are being told by dealers in the UK (same thing I was told here in the west US):

I went into our local dealer yesterday looking for a new biggish saw and was told that the 661 had been withdrawn from sale and that will be replaced for the time being with the 660. The dealer wasn't told why it was being withdrawn, simply that they had to send back their held stock of 661s and that a fresh batch of 660s would be made available at some point.

Here is a post from a guy that got a bad 661 in the UK:

My power head has been sent off to Germany, and I'm now hopefully awaiting my 660 replacement. 
Reason for replacement is performance related, just didn't cut it compared to the 660.


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## Typhke (Jan 29, 2014)

The website is misleading but I get why they would put the 661 online. The catalogs have the 661 so it's hard to keep it off the websites. But I don't get why there isn't any message or tag linked to the 661 on their websites, like, temporarily not available.

I don't get the irregularity on the websites.
US, Canada, Poland, Austria, Denmark,...: 660
Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany, Italy: 661
France, UK,...: 660 & 661

Germany is a pretty big market and I would think they sell pretty many 660/661 there in a month. So if the 661 isn't available, I would figure they would show the 660 on the website with price info. But they don't. In Belgium, The Netherlands and Italy the market is probably rather small, so they could sell leftover stock 660s for now. But also not on their website. Maybe we will be the first to get the relaunched 661, test it on a longer period (maybe including France and the UK) before expanding to other markets again. And the 660 will be produced for the other markets for the time being.

It could be linked to their distribution channels but the odd one is Austria imo, delivering Germany and Italy but not Austria between them?

Btw, it could just as easily be bad website management but replacing the 660 with the 661 less than a week ago without it being available anytime soon, would be really bad management.


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## mdavlee (Jan 29, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> Yes you can find less inexpensive injectors , but I know the factory ones work. I hate doing the same job twice . And the cp is a high pressure pump. It's not a injection pump that is a mechanical timed pump that manually forces fuel at high pressure built up by said injector pump , through injectors that are basically a complicated garden hose nozzle . But on a whole , this is one of the best fuel systems ever put on a diesel so far . And that sounds like a bad azz truck mine is a beater work truck that only gets started when it's pulling aiming or pushing something



If you buy from a diesel shop instead of the dealer we were getting new ones for $300 plus core. Try didn't have nozzles so you put the old ones on and back in business. The last 07 was a fun ride. It was sold last year and the people totaled it out in less than 3 months. I guess they were going to fast or just spun out. I never got the whole story. 

Who's going to be first to program the mtronic? Smarty or H&S?


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## banana boat (Jan 29, 2014)

I had no idea stihl made a diesel truck


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## Nuzzy (Jan 29, 2014)

Was in my Stihl shop a few days ago and they still have their pretty 661 sitting on the shelf for sale, taunting me.


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## Mastermind (Jan 29, 2014)

I wish I knew what the issue was.......if it's performance related, I could be spinning my wheels studying the responses I get from different port heights on this one I have.


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## tree monkey (Jan 29, 2014)

it must be the end of the world


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## windthrown (Jan 31, 2014)

tree monkey said:


> it must be the end of the world


 
Yes, as we know it... first the AS site konks out. Then the 661 konks out... what will be next?


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## Mastermind (Jan 31, 2014)

OMG.......

My back hurts bad too. Are these things related?


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## windthrown (Jan 31, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> OMG.......
> 
> My back hurts bad too. Are these things related?


 
What? My back went out on me yesterday too!

I dunno... maybe it has to do with the new purple MM t-shirts!


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## windthrown (Jan 31, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> I wish I knew what the issue was.......if it's performance related, I could be spinning my wheels studying the responses I get from different port heights on this one I have.


Yes, and no one is going to give you a straight answer about it. Or even know if there is a problem, or what it is. Anyone have the 661IPL? Presumably any changes in the re-released 661 would show up there, or in a tech note.


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## windthrown (Jan 31, 2014)

Nuzzy said:


> Was in my Stihl shop a few days ago and they still have their pretty 661 sitting on the shelf for sale, taunting me.


 
Wow. I thought that the west coast Stihl distributor did not get any 661s... More discord for the 661 'recall' heap.



The 661 total recall. Real, or imagined?
When accelerating the tears of emotion must flow horizontally into the ear (translated from a German web site)


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## windthrown (Jan 31, 2014)

The latest blather on the German site is that the dealers there are telling them that the problems with the 661 will mainly occur from the first tank of gas on. Also someone posted earlier there this week that the problems are with the 661 pistons, and that there is a flaw in a specific SN batch of saws. Apparently if you pull the muffler after running a tank of gas through the saw, the piston damage will be obvious. The issue is said to be that the piston metal is too thin in places.

This is what I can gather using Bing and Google translators anyway, from phrases like:
 
With exhaust off and bit run can be very unprofessional...

So, is it the cylinder, the crank, or the piston? Tune in to find out in the next episode of, _As the Saw Turns._


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## Derrick Sawyer (Feb 21, 2014)

Not sure if anyone is still following this post, but the situation would certainly make Andreas Stihl roll in his grave....to have this happen to such a highly anticipated flagship saw that is following a nearly 25 yr old design. Not sure if anyone here has read the book by Waldemar Schafer titled Stihl, From an ideal to a world brand, but i goes into the history of stihl, at one time making diesel engines, washing machines, tractors and of course saws and chains, from being bombed in WWII to almost going under many times,even growing food on the property to feed everyone, but Andreas was so quality minded he even started making difficult magnesium casting themselves and not outsourcing, so not sure if the problem with the 661 was from transfer from Mahle to Gilardoni or just mass production, but this did happen, as the book outlines, during the creation of the Contra, to rival gearless Solo Rex, and the gearless McCulloch and Homelite, also with new diaphragm fuel pump, but the Contra initially had teething problems with broken crank, connecting rod, and crankcase...Stihl quickly replaced with die-cast and not sand cast, and the problems were fixed and forgotten,but for a short while Andreas was ready to fire everybody....

My dealer Penn Holo in Schwenksville, PA has been there 40 years, a large menonite family founded and runs the place, incredible outfit that doesn't sell mowers and tractors like others.....they don't know exactly what happened but they haven't had problems with the m-tronic on any other models. They also sell Husqvarna and Echo, make there own chains, tons of bars of many brands, sell saws they traded in and fixed, so its like candyland in there....ask for a part that other dealers don't have or haven't even heard of, and they pull out a drawer and have it, for instance the Stihl 036 pro upgrade kit for .325 to 3/8 with clutch drum, larger needle bearing


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## chadihman (Feb 21, 2014)

Knobby57 said:


> Recalls and updated parts isn't quite the same thing, but yes the ford 6.0 psd is laden with a lot of very common issues. It's not if the egr cooler will go its more of when. And please god let is start one more time is said way to often when you have a high pressure oil leak ,....Cummins lots of power and good for many miles but also not without it's issues.4000 $ when the injectors fail in the post injector pump motors. And you have to deal with the worst tarnnies ever along with that joke of a soda can of a truck they bolt around the motor, the AM axles are crap blowing cariers and front wheel bearings every 50k And no lockout hubs , Then we have the chevy durimax .... Fantastic riding truck, no real front axle . Absolutely no power , Alison trans is fantastic. Brakes mediocre for a 1 ton truck and a sub par frame . We need a cummins motor , Alison trans , ford rears and frame and brakes , and a Chevy body and interior and then wow we got a great truck ,that should only cost 100 k lol. They are all crap for the 50 -70 k we spend on them . Kind of like chainsaws . Pick your own flavor they are all good or bad in their own ways none better than the others as far as being without issues . They are all machines , if you expect them to be perfect you will eventually be diapointed


Something wrong with your duramax if it has no power. Most power in stock form and can run really well with some mods.


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## porsche965 (Feb 23, 2014)

My Dealer received two dozen 661C in. I have one. Sold the last one three weeks ago. Up to date not one has been returned. I would guess that 80% were put into Loggers hands from the 661C Open House they held.

Hope to get a few more tank through mine and pull the muffler to see condition. Only two tanks so far in this one.

Sweet saw.


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## Derrick Sawyer (Feb 24, 2014)

Dang how'd ya'll get saws in Ohio, nowhere in site in PA. Sweet saw as in torque of an old Husky 394xp or Stihl 056 magnum with better anti-vibe and lighter weight or sweet like looks cool and its brand new.


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## blsnelling (Feb 24, 2014)

porsche965 said:


> My Dealer received two dozen 661C in. I have one. Sold the last one three weeks ago. Up to date not one has been returned. I would guess that 80% were put into Loggers hands from the 661C Open House they held.
> 
> Hope to get a few more tank through mine and pull the muffler to see condition. Only two tanks so far in this one.
> 
> Sweet saw.


Wouldn't those had to have come from Bryan Equipment? I need connections like you've got


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## windthrown (Feb 25, 2014)

Derrick Sawyer said:


> My dealer Penn Holo in Schwenksville, PA has been there 40 years, a large menonite family founded and runs the place, incredible outfit that doesn't sell mowers and tractors like others.....they don't know exactly what happened but they haven't had problems with the m-tronic on any other models. They also sell Husqvarna and Echo, make there own chains, tons of bars of many brands, sell saws they traded in and fixed, so its like candyland in there....ask for a part that other dealers don't have or haven't even heard of, and they pull out a drawer and have it, for instance the Stihl 036 pro upgrade kit for .325 to 3/8 with clutch drum, larger needle bearing


 
That is cool about a shop that has the 036 upgrade kit in stock. I asked the last dealer about them that I went to ask about the 661. They did not know what I was talking about, so I had to have them pull up the IPL for a 360 to get the part numbers. They gave me a price of $40 plus $10 shipping changes. I told 'em to stuff that, as I can get them for less than $40 w/free shipping online. Would have bought one if they had it there. But no...


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## windthrown (Feb 25, 2014)

Not much has been said about the 661 lately on the German sites. Speculation is still heavy on the P&C being the problem, but there is still talk about the crank. More have come forward with grenaded 661 saws in Germany, striking down the idea that all the bad ones were shipped overseas. One fellow had three 661s croak on him. He said they all ran fine until he put them in wood at WOT. Then they ate it. Like here, some places in Germany have no issues with the saws, some dealers and buyers there claim that they can get 661 saws, some places have had issues with the saws, and some have returned bad saws and/or all 661 stock that have all been shipped back to the factory in Germany. Its the same in the UK. Some reports in the UK of 661s running all day with 36 inch bars with no issues. Dealers I have talked to here are still in the dark about them.


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## Stihl working hard (Feb 25, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Not much has been said about the 661 lately on the German sites. Speculation is still heavy on the P&C being the problem, but there is still talk about the crank. More have come forward with grenaded 661 saws in Germany, striking down the idea that all the bad ones were shipped overseas. One fellow had three 661s croak on him. He said they all ran fine until he put them in wood at WOT. Then they ate it. Like here, some places in Germany have no issues with the saws, some dealers and buyers there claim that they can get 661 saws, some places have had issues with the saws, and some have returned bad saws and/or all 661 stock that have all been shipped back to the factory in Germany. Its the same in the UK. Some reports in the UK of 661s running all day with 36 inch bars with no issues. Dealers I have talked to here are still in the dark about them.


I hope they get it sorted out soon iam hanging out for my 661 the old 660 ain't what she used to be but at least I have NEVER had a issue with it as long as the661 ends up as good as the 660 the wait should be worth it


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## windthrown (Feb 28, 2014)

I read on a UK forum that the 661 is being re-designed by the engineers. Same post says that the 661 production has been stopped and the 660 stock is almost gone. Supposedly 650 sales are high now in the UK. As are 395 sales. Note that I had reads before on the German sites that Stihl re-started 660 production in January.


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## windthrown (Feb 28, 2014)

A Stihl dealer in the UK verified/corrected and updated the above info and says that the 661 is now targeted to be out in the August, 2014 timeframe. He also verified that the 660 is in production again in Germany and that more 660 units will be shipped to the UK (and presumably the US) starting next week. He also said that the 650 production was stopped 5 months ago in Germany So it looks like the current 661s are going to be a short run of early production model designs.


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## windthrown (Feb 28, 2014)

Some more users in the UK and Germany and France have posted that their 661s have been crapping out on them over time. Most are getting replacement 660s and their 661s are being shipped back to the Fatherland. Many also report that their 661s are still running strong. So 661 failures remain a mixed bag.


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## Rockjock (Feb 28, 2014)

windthrown said:


> A Stihl dealer in the UK verified/corrected and updated the above info and says that the 661 is now targeted to be out in the August, 2014 timeframe. He also verified that the 660 is in production again in Germany and that more 660 units will be shipped to the UK (and presumably the US) starting next week. He also said that the 650 production was stopped 5 months ago in Germany So it looks like the current 661s are going to be a short run of early production model designs.



What sites have you been finding this info on?


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## windthrown (Feb 28, 2014)

Cannot list other forums on this one... AS does not allow it. One is the largest in the UK, starts with arb and ends in talk. Another in German is motorsagen... ...portal.

Some guys in Germany posted that they have been playing with a demo prototype 661 saw in Bavaria that evidently runs like no other saw anyone has handled. Limited to a one-off of course, and likely the property of Stihl. They did not say if the demo saw was pre or post production. Like the clear model Husky 346 saw that I wanted to buy at the dealer here but could not. That saw was sent back to the factory.


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## Rockjock (Feb 28, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Cannot list other forums on this one... AS does not allow it. One is the largest in the UK, starts with arb and ends in talk. Another in German is motorsagen... ...portal.
> 
> Of interest on the German site is that a dealer there told someone (after he called and raised bloody hell) that he would be able to order a 661 in March... and they would be available soon after. That is the older line that was being spun here... My guys at the more trusty Stihl dealers here tell me it will be Summer.
> 
> Some guys are also posting that they have been playing with a demo prototype 661 saw in Bavaria that evidently runs like no other saw anyone has handled. Limited to a one-off of course, and likely the property of Stihl. They did not say if the demo saw was pre or post production. Like the clear model Husky 346 saw that I wanted to buy at the dealer here but could not. That saw was sent back to the factory.



Ok I asked because the dealers I know, have the saw and it runs great. The dealer in Baveria can not keep it in stock and when I asked him about a recall he was perplexed. He said simply if there is a recall why do I have the saws in stock, why is the forst verwaltung ( Forestry Management Service ) is ordering them on mass. Again I find this all very odd. 1 thing he did say was it is a very impressive Motorsäge


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## windthrown (Feb 28, 2014)

You are the only one I know that says that. You can look on these sites and see what they post for yourself. I ain't making this stuff up. The German translations are a bit tough, but they seem to be very similar to what they say in the UK. And yes, its a mixed bag. Some dealers are reported as having sold a lot of 661 here as late as last week, and some are reporting 661s still on the shelves.

On the German site last week one guy there that works in a Stihl shop in Germany said that they got a letter from the factory telling them to stop selling 661 saws. Another dealer in Germany says he is out of 661 stock and was told the week before that the 661 will be available for re-ordering at the end of March. I am not sure when the orders would be filled. I believe that a lot of this information is being filtered to dealers through distributors, like they are here in the states.

My guys here at the local Stihl shops in Oregon say to avoid the existing model 661s, and the revised models will be out sometime this summer. BobOak (GoLogIt) posted that he asked his dealer in NorCal about the 661 and they got all riled up and he could not post what they said in their reply. They are apparently not happy campers.


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## Rockjock (Feb 28, 2014)

windthrown said:


> You are the only one I know that says that. You can look on these sites and see what they post for yourself. I ain't making this stuff up. The German translations are a bit tough, but they seem to be very similar to what they say in the UK. And yes, its a mixed bag. Some dealers are reported as having sold a lot of 661 here as late as last week, and some are reporting 661s still on the shelves.
> 
> On the German site last week one guy there that works in a Stihl shop in Germany said that they got a letter from the factory telling them to stop selling 661 saws. Another dealer in Germany says he is out of 661 stock and was told the week before that the 661 will be available for re-ordering at the end of March. I am not sure when the orders would be filled. I believe that a lot of this information is being filtered to dealers through distributors, like they are here in the states.
> 
> My guys here at the local Stihl shops in Oregon say to avoid the existing model 661s, and the revised models will be out sometime this summer. BobOak (GoLogIt) posted that he asked his dealer in NorCal about the 661 and they got all riled up and he could not post what they said in their reply. They are apparently not happy campers.



Sadly I am not the only one. All I have read is there are issues bit no pics and no real proof. For me this is a issue because I have several local tree companies wanting the saw now and I am able to get it for them. So when the talk of the issues came out I made some calls and was told this is news to them. 1 dealer near the German Dutch border said he did not hear anything. The bloke in Bavaria said the same thing. He is also family so I doubt highly he would steer me wrong. For me I like pictures, specifics of what the issue was. Knowing what I know of Stihl if there was a recall not a single dealer would have them on the shelves let alone selling them and taking orders. I am sure there is more to this than meets the eye. My friend Dan always said believe only 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear.


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## windthrown (Feb 28, 2014)

Well I find it virtually impossible that this is some kind of conspiracy theory, as the story I am hearing at my local Stihl shop is the same as I am reading online, worldwide. Here is a quote from a London, UK Stihl dealer, posted 2/25 on a UK arborist forum:

I'll update you.

661 will be back in about August, the 660 is now back in production and we have stock arriving next week. 
The 650 has stopped about 6 months ago. 

As soon as we have 660's back on the shelf we will let you all know. We did have 10 come in a week ago but they where all for waiting customers.

Hope this helps. 
__________________
Check out our website here:www.frjonesandson.co.uk 020 8676 3010


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## Mastermind (Feb 28, 2014)

WooT WooT


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## windthrown (Feb 28, 2014)

Yes, the now rare early model production 661 MM second porting. They are real... for some people.


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## Mastermind (Feb 28, 2014)

The more I watch that video, the more impressive the saw becomes in my mind. The rakers on that chain are at .040, and it's running an 8 pin rim.


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## windthrown (Feb 28, 2014)

That cherry you be cuttin' thar, is it hard or soft? Green cherry here is pretty soft to cut.


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## pro94lt (Feb 28, 2014)

Boys something is definitely bad bad wrong with the 661 I waited for seems like years on the 562xp and t540xp. Im done waiting. If the reports are August I'm guessing at least another year. After this disastrous roll out they'll have to test for at least a few months. Hold on to your 660s boys and lay the 100s down for 390s the 661 is a long way from reality we know stihl may screw up once but twice?


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## Mastermind (Feb 28, 2014)

It's somewhere between poplar and oak.


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## windthrown (Feb 28, 2014)

Poplar or black cottonwood here can be hard as a frikk'in rock. But softer than oak I can get a feel for.


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## windthrown (Feb 28, 2014)

pro94lt said:


> Boys something is definitely bad bad wrong with the 661 I waited for seems like years on the 562xp and t540xp. Im done waiting. If the reports are August I'm guessing at least another year. After this disastrous roll out they'll have to test for at least a few months. Hold on to your 660s boys and lay the 100s down for 390s the 661 is a long way from reality we know stihl may screw up once but twice?


 
Well, some of the Germans say that if its a piston issue (thin crown) the turn around time for the factory to crank out new ones is 3 months. Add assembly time and shipping, add another month or two, depending. All supposition that the piston is the main fault, of course. Seemingly in some places you can buy all the 661s that you want now?


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## pro94lt (Feb 28, 2014)

I've never seen my stihl dealer shelf not stocked with a 660 it's been bare for a month or so... it's definitely not a conspiracy


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## Mastermind (Mar 1, 2014)

A guy in Greece just sent me an email hoping to find a MS661. He said they weren't available there either.


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## windthrown (Mar 1, 2014)

A guy in Denmark posted on FF a month ago that they cannot not find a 661 in Denmark either (said they were recalled from there). Another guy in Denmark confirmed that they cannot get 661s on the TH forum and that he got 2 loaner 660s from his dealer in January until the 661s come out.


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## Rockjock (Mar 1, 2014)

Gentlemen please settle down. All I am saying is no one has pinpointed what the issue is. The reports are all over the map. Many had this saw and yet no one took a video of it running, of the broken crank etc. This official letter that no one scanned. I call dealers that I know and they tell me they have the saw, they sell the saw and they have not seen any back for any reason. For the guy in Greece, get the saw from Germany pm his info and I will be more than happy to send him the details. I even got a email from someone claiming the saw blew up. No he took no pics, even when the tech had the saw apart he took no pics. The only fact I do see is that some places have the saw and others do not. Same factory so a bad production is kinda a weak excuse. I read on as Dutch site they often do not get " newly released " equipment so they just drive across the border and buy it from Germany as many of the countries do there. Price is the same warranty as well. My local dear here in Canada has no ETA for it. But is sure he will get it in the spring. Personally I would like to hear from someone who has the saw, had it fail and has some pics of the damage.


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## lmbrman (Mar 1, 2014)

The 661 sold locally was returned to the dealer for warranty when the cylinder came apart, I got to see the saw but the cylinder had been shipped to Germany. Low hours as in a handful of tanks of fuel. Good news is that when stihl offered up a 660 for replacement or repair the 661 the buyer indicated he did not care for a 660 after running the 661. 

Dealer said the stihl rep told him they had 17 failures same as that saw. I have no idea what that number means percentage wise of sales and I did not pester the dealer as he was kind enough to call me about the returned saw. I have no reason to doubt the dealer and have known him for years. He called me about the failure when it came in but was directed to not allow pictures or show the cylinder.

He said he is selling a lot more 390xp as a result, he said if he did not have another brand to sell he would be hurting right now as this has dragged on for months.

I am on the list for the 661 but undecided at this point.


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 1, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> WooT WooT




i bet a square skip tooth rakers at .025 or .030 would slice through there nice and smooth


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## chadihman (Mar 1, 2014)

I wonder if the 661 jug and slug I sent Randy had any changes from the original one on that 661. I've never had to wait so long for a Stihl part.


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## windthrown (Mar 1, 2014)

Rockjock said:


> Personally I would like to hear from someone who has the saw, had it fail and has some pics of the damage.


 
Problem with that is that if a saw fails, you take it to the dealer to get resolved under warranty. They ship it back to the factory (as has been stated by all the people that have had saws fail). There is nothing to take pictures of in that process. Quite by design. Stihl will not allow it.

Oh look, someone else posted from WI directly answering your points. Thank you lmbrman. Same story as has been posted in the UK and the EU. Still not satisfied? You still want to be a champion for Stihl here?


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## Rockjock (Mar 1, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Problem with that is that if a saw fails, you take it to the dealer to get resolved under warranty. They ship it back to the factory (as has been stated by all the people that have had saws fail). There is nothing to take pictures of in that process. Quite by design. Stihl will not allow it.
> 
> Oh look, someone else posted from WI directly answering your points. Thank you lmbrman. Same story as has been posted in the UK and the EU. Still not satisfied? You still want to be a champion for Stihl here?



Wait a tic I never said I wanted to be a champion for stihl. I have stated I have a vested interest if there really is a recall or just a few failures. I would think someone would have pulled a muffler and taken a snap. To me a recall would cause all the units to be pulled off the shelves and that is not the case. So do not get it confused I simply ask because I am being asked to facilitate some 661's here at home before the dealer gets them. I have been in contact with a bloke I used to work with in the Forestry Management department of the local town I was stationed at in Germany and he has said the saw runs amazingly well, and the units they have are running top notch. I can only go by that. Sorry if I am not clear enough English is not my first language or my second.


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## lmbrman (Mar 1, 2014)

chadihman said:


> I wonder if the 661 jug and slug I sent Randy had any changes from the original one on that 661. I've never had to wait so long for a Stihl part.



Any idea on the purchase timeframe on that slug/jug? Reason I ask is the local guy here is still waiting for a replacement, dealer said he cannot get one yet.

I wish I could have seen the one that blew apart. Dealer called it 'sudden massive failure' and as I think back on it, there was no top cover with the returned saw. 

The dealer plans to call me when he gets the replacement p/c.


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## lmbrman (Mar 1, 2014)

Rockjock said:


> Wait a tic I never said I wanted to be a champion for stihl. I have stated I have a vested interest if there really is a recall or just a few failures. I would think someone would have pulled a muffler and taken a snap. To me a recall would cause all the units to be pulled off the shelves and that is not the case. So do not get it confused I simply ask because I am being asked to facilitate some 661's here at home before the dealer gets them. I have been in contact with a bloke I used to work with in the Forestry Management department of the local town I was stationed at in Germany and he has said the saw runs amazingly well, and the units they have are running top notch. I can only go by that. Sorry if I am not clear enough English is not my first language or my second.



The saw here in WI was recalled, but the owner did not leave valid contact info on the warranty as some people do not wish to make their phone number and address public more than necessary. The guy had no idea there was a recall until the saw blew and he returned to the dealer. Other 661 sold at that dealer were returned and replacement 660 was given or they could wait for a post recall 661. 

Any of us here would have snapped a pic, and I hoped to but no p/c present and no pics allowed, and I hate to pizz of a dealer that has treated me good but getting pushy. I noted to myself he did not even call me until the p/c was gone. Tough for us on this site to recognize that most saw users are not that into discussing saws, just use the tool and forget it. The truth will come out,, mostly.


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## windthrown (Mar 2, 2014)

Word is from Oz that they are being told that the 661 will be out there sometime between 9 months and a year from now. All they have seen down under of the 661 are some prototype saws that were sent back to Germany after field testing.


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## Stihl working hard (Mar 3, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Word is from Oz that they are being told that the 661 will be out there sometime between 9 months and a year from now. All they have seen down under of the 661 are some prototype saws that were sent back to Germany after field testing.


God I hope and prey you are wrong


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## Derrick Sawyer (Mar 4, 2014)

As with all of you I am waiting to check to this saw out, I was so sure it was coming late last year that i took my 660, painted it, and gave it to my wife for Christmas (see pic below). I use an 066 or 394 anyway. Look on the bright side, put away $100 starting now (or better yet last month) and when it comes out you might have enough cash for it, kind of like putting it on Layaway! 

OH, i paid $500 for that 660 so figured couldn't lose much


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## Stihl working hard (Mar 8, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Word is from Oz that they are being told that the 661 will be out there sometime between 9 months and a year from now. All they have seen down under of the 661 are some prototype saws that were sent back to Germany after field testing.


Went to my local stihl dealer yesterday must have been there at the right time because the stihl rep pulled up when I did and I hit him up on the 661 he told me that the saw had a overheating problem he stopped short of saying it was a crook piston stihl Ozz reacon they will have the 661 on the shelf by September although time will tell


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## XSKIER (Mar 8, 2014)

Wow, is "oz english" tough to read or what? >(


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## mdavlee (Mar 8, 2014)

I got to run one and like it. If they had them out when they said they would I was going to buy one.


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## Gologit (Mar 8, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> I got to run one and like it. If they had them out when they said they would I was going to buy one.



The one I ordered actually made it to the saw shop in January. I was given the option of running it or sending it back. If I ran it and it blew up it would be covered by warranty but it would have to go to Germany for analysis and repair. I sent it back. Never even took it out of the box.


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## lmbrman (Mar 8, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> I got to run one and like it. If they had them out when they said they would I was going to buy one.



I was ready to buy at one point also, now I lost interest. Maybe the deep snow is part of my lack of interest. I never got to run one yet, but will.


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## mdavlee (Mar 8, 2014)

Gologit said:


> The one I ordered actually made it to the saw shop in January. I was given the option of running it or sending it back. If I ran it and it blew up it would be covered by warranty but it would have to go to Germany for analysis and repair. I sent it back. Never even took it out of the box.



I was thinking it would be a good milling saw for me running a 36-42" bar since they said the oiler out put was better than the 660. I can't say I blame you for sending it back. It would be a hassle for you if it did blow.


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## Gologit (Mar 8, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> I was thinking it would be a good milling saw for me running a 36-42" bar since they said the oiler out put was better than the 660. I can't say I blame you for sending it back. It would be a hassle for you if it did blow.



It was tempting to keep it and if they ever get the problems ironed out I'll probably get one. I still have my 'Slingr 660 for a back-up saw but it's promised to somebody else. I bought a 461 to use for now.


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## mdavlee (Mar 8, 2014)

A 461 is a nice saw in it's own right.


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 8, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> I got to run one and like it. If they had them out when they said they would I was going to buy one.



What did you think of the spring mounts compared to the rubber ones ?


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## mdavlee (Mar 8, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> What did you think of the spring mounts compared to the rubber ones ?



I don't mind them. It feels like a husky which I like. It's not as solid like the rubber av though.


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## windthrown (Mar 8, 2014)

Stihl working hard said:


> God I hope and prey you are wrong


 
Just what I hear from the pros down under, mate. Up here in the Northern Hemisphere, word is still a later summer timeframe.


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## ktoom (Mar 8, 2014)

Gologit said:


> The one I ordered actually made it to the saw shop in January. I was given the option of running it or sending it back. If I ran it and it blew up it would be covered by warranty but it would have to go to Germany for analysis and repair. I sent it back. Never even took it out of the box.



Your crazy, I woulda taken it and ran it lolololol. Then I would have post picture's on here and rubbing it in everyone's face lolololol

Did you not have other saws you could have used if the 661 did actually break?


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## windthrown (Mar 8, 2014)

Why take the risk? The probability is higher that he would get a bad one from the early batch of saws. Then its a PITA to wait for a fix or another saw, like others are doing now. Bob is not exactly the 'needs to show off' kind of guy. He also has other saws. Just read up a few posts...

You seem to be an in your face showboat kind of guy. You should put _your _money down on a 661, then you can rub it in all you want. There are 661s still out there on some shelves. Then when it goes kablooey, you can tell us how great the experience it is dealing with getting the saw fixed under warranty at your dealer and waiting around for a fix. Or buy one on CL used or here on AS voiding the warranty. Then when it goes kablooey, tell us how great that is. lol lol lol lol lol lol lol...


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## Gologit (Mar 8, 2014)

ktoom said:


> Your crazy, I woulda taken it and ran it lolololol. Then I would have post picture's on here and rubbing it in everyone's face lolololol
> 
> Did you not have other saws you could have used if the 661 did actually break?


 
Well, that's the difference between you and I. I use saws to make my living and I need to be able to depend on them. You apparently use saws to score points off of other people, make yourself feel better, and generally make an ass out of yourself. 
That's okay, everybody should go with their main talents and abilities. You obviously do.

And yes, I have other saws I can use.


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## ktoom (Mar 8, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Well, that's the difference between you and I. I use saws to make my living and I need to be able to depend on them. You apparently use saws to score points off of other people, make yourself feel better, and generally make an ass out of yourself.
> That's okay, everybody should go with their main talents and abilities. You obviously do.
> 
> And yes, I have other saws I can use.



Wowwwww don't know if that was called. Obviously you couldn't tell I was joking. Man oh man, now I know why other people are starting to go to other forums cuz of people like yourself.


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## Gologit (Mar 8, 2014)

ktoom said:


> Wowwwww don't know if that was called. Obviously you couldn't tell I was joking. Man oh man, now I know why other people are starting to go to other forums cuz of people like yourself.



Calm down, meat. You made a smart-ass post and you got an appropriate response. Deal with it.


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## bryanr2 (Mar 8, 2014)

opcorn:


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## DexterDay (Mar 8, 2014)

ktoom said:


> Wowwwww don't know if that was called. Obviously you couldn't tell I was joking. Man oh man, now I know why other people are starting to go to other forums cuz of people like yourself.



Like...


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## windthrown (Mar 9, 2014)

And now back to our regular programming...


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## STIHLTHEDEERE (Mar 9, 2014)

ktoom said:


> Wowwwww don't know if that was called. Obviously you couldn't tell I was joking. Man oh man, now I know why other people are starting to go to other forums cuz of people like yourself.


 


Gologit said:


> Calm down, meat. You made a smart-ass post and you got an appropriate response. Deal with it.


 Yeh, there is a reason this guy is no longer a mod as well.............................maybe it is all of his "appropriate responses"?


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## ktoom (Mar 9, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Calm down, meat. You made a smart-ass post and you got an appropriate response. Deal with it.



I never meant to come off like that to you. I was asking a serious question as I was curious of what kind of work you do. Obviously you make money with your saws and I don't so that makes me nothing and you God of all chainsaws!!!!!

Yea, your talents and abilities definitely shows your low level of intelligence by the way you reacted. I'd rather be a smart-ass than a dumbs like your self lolol. Go rotate on that!!!! lol

You shared an experience with the thread and it was cool to hear that you could have taken the saw if you wanted. I completely understand why you didn't.

This is the stupid crap that derails threads ALL THE TIME!!!! Who looks like the ASS now???


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## STIHLTHEDEERE (Mar 9, 2014)

ktoom said:


> I never meant to come off like that to you. I was asking a serious question as I was curious of what kind of work you do. Obviously you make money with your saws and I don't so that makes me nothing and you God of all chainsaws!!!!!
> 
> Yea, your talents and abilities definitely shows your low level of intelligence by the way you reacted. I'd rather be a smart-ass than a dumbs like your self lolol. Go rotate on that!!!! lol
> 
> ...


 it is a caifornia thing, there are 3-4 of them here that think their neck of the woods is the only area of the country where the real "loggers" with big trees and big saws are. i am sure they will be along shortly to flame away. back to the 661 we are all waiting for...............


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## Gologit (Mar 9, 2014)

ktoom said:


> This is the stupid crap that derails threads ALL THE TIME!!!! Who looks like the ASS now???



You.


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## ktoom (Mar 9, 2014)

Gologit said:


> You.



Thats the best you could come up with??? Lolol


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## windthrown (Mar 9, 2014)

ktoom said:


> This is the stupid crap that derails threads ALL THE TIME!!!! Who looks like the ASS now???


 
Having met Bob myself, I think that YOU DO! Talk about what is WrOng with this site, you take that award in spades. You intentionally post a jerk-off baiting thread de-railing response, and then you post more taunting BS to smear all over it, again and again. I bet you get into a lot of bar fights and get whipped in the process, over and over. 8th grade must have been a big challenge for you that is, if you have gotten that far yet.

Welcome to my iggy list, fool. lolololololol....


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## windthrown (Mar 9, 2014)

Well, we are obviously in the pile-on shyte slinging mode now, and have expanded to trashing the west coast, moderators, and anything in between. So obviously there is no point in continuing this thread.


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## Gologit (Mar 9, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Well, we are obviously in the pile-on shyte slinging mode now, and have expanded to trashing the west coast, moderators, and anything in between. So obviously there is no point in continuing this thread.


 
Let's keep it going. I've said everything I need to say and if the ankle biters stay out of it maybe we can try to figure out when and where we'll finally get our hands on a 661.

The saw shop I use is pretty well dialed in with Stihl and I have a standing order for one as soon as they're made available. If I'm not too old to use it by then.


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## ktoom (Mar 9, 2014)

You must be of the same intelligence level of this Bob character. You both sound like some internet tough guy that talks all this **** about people that you don't even know. Its sad that ur boy Bob cant speak for himself and you gotta talk for him. I dont care who you are or what you think if me. I never attacked Bob in the first place nor you. You both have brought this to another level. Since he brought it to this level, i have every right to respond the same offensive way as both of you. Oh I'm sorry, you must be another "chainsaw god" just like him. You two are both pathetic and a disgrace to this message board for attacking people the way you do on here.


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## ktoom (Mar 9, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Let's keep it going. I've said everything I need to say and if the ankle biters stay out of it maybe we can try to figure out when and where we'll finally get our hands on a 661.
> 
> The saw shop I use is pretty well dialed in with Stihl and I have a standing order for one as soon as they're made available. If I'm not too old to use it by then.



YOUR THE ONE WHO MADE THE THREAD DERAIL!!!!!


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## Ljute (Mar 9, 2014)




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## Gologit (Mar 9, 2014)

ktoom said:


> You must be of the same intelligence level of this Bob character. You both sound like some internet tough guy that talks all this **** about people that you don't even know. Its sad that ur boy Bob cant speak for himself and you gotta talk for him. I dont care who you are or what you think if me. I never attacked Bob in the first place nor you. You both have brought this to another level. Since he brought it to this level, i have every right to respond the same offensive way as both of you. Oh I'm sorry, you must be another "chainsaw god" just like him. You two are both pathetic and a disgrace to this message board for attacking people the way you do on here.


 

Hey Windthrown....

I don't think we'll be getting Christmas cards from this guy this year. Darn.


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## Gologit (Mar 9, 2014)

ktoom said:


> YOUR THE ONE WHO MADE THE THREAD DERAIL!!!!!



Does that mean that the apology you sent me in PM is no longer valid? Sheeesh, make up your mind.


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## ktoom (Mar 9, 2014)

I think anybody who has been following this know I never set out to attack you. Instead you attacked me and I did the same to you in defense. I have reiterated this in my other post and that was my apology to you. The question is where is your apology for talking the way you did to me?

I pm'ed you so we could talk about this man to man the other day, but you haven't wrote back yet.


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## windthrown (Mar 10, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Hey Windthrown....
> 
> I don't think we'll be getting Christmas cards from this guy this year. Darn.


 
What guy?

The Xen Foro tools are great when it comes to putting someone on your ignore list. They completely disappear. Gone. Poof. So much quieter. Even the big fat floaters flush away, with no more stink.


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 10, 2014)

Wow Bob another man to man talk. I just read about the one you were supposed to have with Hokey Tree and now this one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## windthrown (Mar 20, 2014)

The latest global updates on the 661:

The new Stihl catalog in Oz shows the release of the 661 will be in the "Winter of 2014." Which would mean summer of 2014 up here.



Photo ripped off from VinceGU05


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## windthrown (Mar 20, 2014)

On the German site that I read, they posted this reply from Stihl yesterday regarding the 661 (March 19):

Ich zitiere




: 

"Bei den Motorsägen Modellen STIHL MS 661 und MS 661 C traten im Rahmen von begleitenden Qualitätsuntersuchungen in unserem Entwicklungszentrum an einigen Motorsägen Ausfälle auf.
Aus diesem Grund hat sich STIHL entschlossen, die Auslieferung der genannten Motorsägen vorübergehend zu stoppen. An einer technischen Lösung arbeitet STIHL. Wir bedauern die Unannehmlichkeiten und bitten um Ihr Verständnis. Leider können wir Ihnen zum heutigen Zeitpunkt noch keinen verbindlichen Liefertermin nennen. Bitte wenden Sie sich an Ihren Fachhändler, der Sie informieren möchte, sobald die STIHL MS 661 lieferbar ist."

Which loosely translated means:

I quote



: 

"Failures/faults were found in some STIHL MS661 and MS 661C model chainsaws during quality assurance investigations at our development center. As a result of these findings, STIHL has decided to temporarily stop the release of these model chainsaws. STIHL is now working on a technical solution. We regret the inconvenience and ask for your understanding. Unfortunately at present we do not have an exact timeline for a delivery date (for the 661). Please consult with your local Stihl chainsaw dealer as to when the STIHL MS661 will be available."

I was not aware that there is a non-Mtronic 661 available. Amusing... this is the official line from Stihl, through Germany anyway. It is the same as what Stihl reps are saying in the UK.


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## Gologit (Mar 20, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Unfortunately at present we do not have an exact timeline for a delivery date for the 661. Please consult with your local Stihl chainsaw dealer as to when the STIHL MS661 will be available."
> 
> ..




In other words, Stihl is saying "We're not going to tell you what the problems are and we're not going to publish an availability date and why don't you go bug the hell out of your poor long suffering local saw shop about it (_who doesn't know anything because we're not talking to him either)_ and leave us alone".

That about sum it up?


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## windthrown (Mar 20, 2014)

Gologit said:


> That about sum it up?


 
Yup. There is really nothing new about thee 661 from either the UK or Germany. 660s seem to be flowing to the UK again though. They are also on the shelves here again too.


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## Milkweed Seed (Mar 20, 2014)

Usually no news, is good news. Not the case here IMO


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## Rockjock (Mar 20, 2014)

windthrown said:


> On the German site that I read, they posted this reply from Stihl yesterday regarding the 661 (March 19):
> 
> Ich zitiere
> 
> ...



forum.motorsaegen-portal.de is the official website for Stihl? Odd.. Stranger yet the saw is still for sale in many German dealers. But I suppose the April 5th Stihl demo event where you can come in and try out a saw will be absent the 661? nope it is being placed front and centre. Interesting indeed. I will do my best to have someone take a video.


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## windthrown (Mar 21, 2014)

Rockjock said:


> forum.motorsaegen-portal.de is the official website for Stihl? Odd.. Stranger yet the saw is still for sale in many German dealers. But I suppose the April 5th Stihl demo event where you can come in and try out a saw will be absent the 661? nope it is being placed front and centre. Interesting indeed. I will do my best to have someone take a video.


 
No, obviously YOU are the official spokesman for Stihl not... The German site is where a letter from Stihl was posted, which is pretty much exactly the same as the letter posted in the UK from a Stihl dealer in London. Which is the same story that they are telling most of us here in the US.

You are the _only _one that refutes any of this information, worldwide. I do not claim or say that you cannot get a new 661, or video one, as there are reported to be _a few_ new 661s still out there on shelves. However, they are very few and far between. There are also some 661s out there being used from before the recall. However, for the vast majority of us, WORLDWIDE, the 661 is NOT AVAILABLE at this time, and the 660 is back in production and being sold. As stated over and over and over again, which you refute over and over again. Take all the vids you want, and then tell me why I cannot _buy_ one here. And then tell them why they cannot buy them in Denmark, or Germany (again, you are the only one I have heard from that says they can be bought anywhere in Germany), or France, or Australia, or in the UK.


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## MustangMike (Mar 21, 2014)

Windthrown is the best source for Stihl information and history that I have seen. Keep up the good work, I always enjoy reading the information you post. It is always accurate, unbiased and helpful.


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## windthrown (Mar 21, 2014)

Well, for the RockJock from Canada, I posted the 661 availability question to the Stihl Corporation this afternoon. We shall see what the "official" answer to that is.

Note that the MS661 not listed as a recall in the USA. Only the D series and earlier flippy caps have a recall for potential warping from ethanol gas exposure and certain models of the MS391 power heads have a recall for cracked flywheels.


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## windthrown (Mar 21, 2014)

Rockjock said:


> forum.motorsaegen-portal.de is the official website for Stihl? Odd.. Stranger yet the saw is still for sale in many German dealers. But I suppose the April 5th Stihl demo event where you can come in and try out a saw will be absent the 661? nope it is being placed front and centre. Interesting indeed. I will do my best to have someone take a video.


 
Well, here yah go Rocky Jockey, straight from the horse's mouth. The OFFICIAL reply from Stihl regarding my request for information about the availability of the MS661 chainsaw.

*Thanks for your E-mail and your interest in STIHL products.
According to the information I have here the MS661 should be released around Aug-Sept 2014.
I hope this helps and if I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. *

*Sincerely,
Mark O’Briant
STIHL Inc. Technical Advisor*


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## dall (Mar 21, 2014)

lol yeah mark obriant isn't to helpful he answered a email from me not to long ago asking why took more then 2 weeks to get gaskets for ms362 from a dealer took the dealer here 3 weeks for the gaskets and another dealer 2 weeks so mark should try to help the consumer more then just give the I don't know answer


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## windthrown (Mar 21, 2014)

Well, no one at Stihl is giving out much information about the 661, and I did not expect any details. The dates are in line with what others in the US, Germany, the UK and Oz have posted online (officially or otherwise).

On another thread on AS a person mentioned that a US Midwest regional Stihl rep admitted to him that it is the cylinders that are bad on some of the original 661s.

So... unofficially as an engineer, I would logically conclude that there were some bad cylinders on the original release of the 661s. After failure analysis by Stihl QA, the potentially defective cylinders were or are being redesigned by engineering and/or re-manufactured to some new specifications to avoid these failures in future. As a result of this, the timeline for the re-release of the MS661 is August-September, 2014. In the meantime the 660 is in production in Germany again and that saw is what is available in lieu of the 661 release in many places globally. Unless you happen into a Stihl shop that has a mythical pile of 661s available...


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## Rockjock (Mar 21, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Well, here yah go Rocky Jockey, straight from the horse's mouth. The OFFICIAL reply from Stihl regarding my request for information about the availability of the MS661 chainsaw.
> 
> *Thanks for your E-mail and your interest in STIHL products.
> According to the information I have here the MS661 should be released around Aug-Sept 2014.
> ...



Wait a moment I was not asking about the USA or Canada. My point was and is how can there be a recall when the saw is for sale in Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, and Italy? Not just for sale but being sold as we speak. I think you are getting your back up for no reason. Now just because the saw is not coming to your neck of the woods does not mean there is a recall. As an engineer I am sure you can agree that IF the saw is being sold, then how can an engineer conclude that there is a problem? As an engineer you have to admit the answer to your email is not one of confirming or denying there was or is a recall but just that there will be a release in August or Sept. Also as an engineer can you tell me what the title of the thread is?


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## MustangMike (Mar 21, 2014)

If there was not a problem with the 661s they would not have pulled them all and started selling 660s again. They were being sold here, now they are not.


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## Rockjock (Mar 21, 2014)

MustangMike said:


> If there was not a problem with the 661s they would not have pulled them all and started selling 660s again. They were being sold here, now they are not.


Mike that does make sense but as I have pointed out it IS being sold across the pond. The official letter said " According to the information I have here the MS661 should be released around Aug-Sept 2014 " not re-released. So explain to me how it is a recall? I am just curious.


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## windthrown (Mar 22, 2014)

Rockjock said:


> Wait a moment I was not asking about the USA or Canada. My point was and is how can there be a recall when the saw is for sale in Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, and Italy? Not just for sale but being sold as we speak. I think you are getting your back up for no reason. Now just because the saw is not coming to your neck of the woods does not mean there is a recall. As an engineer I am sure you can agree that IF the saw is being sold, then how can an engineer conclude that there is a problem? As an engineer you have to admit the answer to your email is not one of confirming or denying there was or is a recall but just that there will be a release in August or Sept. Also as an engineer can you tell me what the title of the thread is?


 
Sorry, but I posted several times about people that cannot get the 661 in Denmark. They were given 660s instead. They are not available in Italy or France either from what I have read. Where did you get that information? And I have posted over and over again that they are not available in Germany to many guys that live there. You can read the posts yourself on the German sites. In many cases in Europe, 661s were replaced with 660 saws in Germany, The UK and Denmark. I also posted a note above in German (from Stihl Germany) that says that they do not know when they will be available for sale there in Germany again. Perhaps you missed that? That was the reply sent to a German who asked (like I did) about the 661 saw availability in Germany. A similar note was sent in reply to people in the UK, from Stihl reps there.

If you want to split hairs about it being a recall, fine. I consider it a recall, as they were sent back to Germany from US distributors, and they were sent back to Germany from UK distributors. And by accounts of many in Germany, their 661 saws were sent back to the factory in Germany. It was voluntary, in that distributors and dealers were not required to send the saws back, but most did. In many cases, like GoLogIt posted in California, he was given a choice of accepting the original ordered 661 or waiting for the newer redesigned model that will be out in the Aug-Sept timeframe. He opted wisely for the newer redesigned 661.

_You_ say that the saws are for readily available and for sale in Germany, Italy, Belgium, and The Netherlands, but I see no evidence of that. What I read on the German and UK sites is the same as what I read here in the US. That they are _not _available to buy there. _Some_ of the original 661 saws that were sent out for distribution were kept by the buyers, shops and distributors. It was their choice to keep them or ship them back. Most were apparently shipped back. However, there are a few out there on shelves, and there are people that are running the original release 661 saws. But that is the great exception, not the rule here, there, or anyplace else.


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## windthrown (Mar 22, 2014)

Rockjock said:


> Mike that does make sense but as I have pointed out it IS being sold across the pond. The official letter said " According to the information I have here the MS661 should be released around Aug-Sept 2014 " not re-released. So explain to me how it is a recall? I am just curious.


 
The original first edition of the 661 has already been released here in the US. So the newer 661 would in fact be a second, or re-release.


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## Rockjock (Mar 22, 2014)

Sadly I am not the only one stating that they are able to buy this saw. As I have said when I heard about this recall I was in contact a dealer in a town I was stationed in and he said he had the saw, he also went on to ask how many I wanted. I thought he is in a small town maybe it just did not get to him. But no that can't be.. there is a recall. So I called another dealer in a town that does quite a bit of timber felling. I was given the same answer. Odd I thought. Talked to my local dealer who said IF there was a recall it would be on Stihls system, there would be a recall number. he also pointed out that Europe seemed to get most things first, even his catalogue had no where near the items that the German, Dutch. Polish, Hungarian ones did ( I can only comment on those because I have seen them. ) So enough of the pissing match please. I have had people in the EU take me to task on this and they have been able to find the saw. I have been watching German TV and seen the adverts for the saw. I kinda think if there was a recall they would not be doing that. 

But you are right there _must_ be a recall.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Mar 22, 2014)

Many sellers near me have 661 in stock,

http://www.smpierrel.fr/boutique/tr...hermiques/product/271-ms-661-c-m-nouveau.html

http://www.smaf-touseau.com/fr/tron...se-thermique-2-chaines-offertes_15764#produit

But my usual Stihl dealer has never received any 661...


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## bootboy (Mar 22, 2014)

I wish they'd get it all figured out because that's likely where my tax return is going...


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## Rockjock (Mar 22, 2014)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> Many sellers near me have 661 in stock,
> 
> http://www.smpierrel.fr/boutique/tronçonneuses/tronçonneuses-thermiques/product/271-ms-661-c-m-nouveau.html
> 
> ...



The prices seems to be what I am seeing across the board more or less. I know in Germany they have a big demo day where you can try out stihl viking products are they any adverts on TV there for the same thing?


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Mar 22, 2014)

I do not know, I almost never watch French television. 

I have a "half-uncle" who works for Stihl / Viking in Austria, I will ask him if he knows anything. It would be interesting, especially since I live close to germany.

I have a friend who sold the largest number of Stihl chainsaws in France in 2013, he went to a weekend in Waiblingen in a few days, he may be able to get information as well.


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## Rockjock (Mar 22, 2014)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> I do not know, I almost never watch French television.
> 
> I have a "half-uncle" who works for Stihl / Viking in Austria, I will ask him if he knows anything. It would be interesting, especially since I live close to germany.
> 
> I have a friend who sold the largest number of Stihl chainsaws in France in 2013, he went to a weekend in Waiblingen in a few days, he may be able to get information as well.



It is good to have a Stihl connection! LOL Mine are in North Rhine-Westphalia, Bavaria, Hesse, and Thueringen with quite a few dealers having the Newer saws and accessories. I am not sure what personal goodies I will bring back from my next trip!


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Mar 22, 2014)

Rockjock said:


> It is good to have a Stihl connection! LOL Mine are in North Rhine-Westphalia, Bavaria, Hesse, and Thueringen with quite a few dealers having the Newer saws and accessories. I am not sure what personal goodies I will bring back from my next trip!



You often go? Makes you a nice trip!

One of the sellers who has 661 in stock sell two for cheap, he has loaned them for a sculpture festival in his town. But he reserve them for their usual customers, and I usually go elsewhere


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## windthrown (Apr 4, 2014)

All quiet on the western front...

My German friends still say that their dealers cannot order the 661 in their Stihl ordering systems. Also according to them the 661 inventory at the distributor was all sent back to the factory. Some 661 saws have been declared 'demo saws' but they cannot be sold by the dealers, just played with. That is what I hear from Germany anyway. In the UK they still do not have any 661s available either, which is the same as here in the US.


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## Rockjock (Apr 4, 2014)

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> You often go? Makes you a nice trip!
> 
> One of the sellers who has 661 in stock sell two for cheap, he has loaned them for a sculpture festival in his town. But he reserve them for their usual customers, and I usually go elsewhere





windthrown said:


> All quiet on the western front...
> 
> My German friends still say that their dealers cannot order the 661 in their Stihl ordering systems. Also according to them the 661 inventory at the distributor was all sent back to the factory. Some 661 saws have been declared 'demo saws' but they cannot be sold by the dealers, just played with. That is what I hear from Germany anyway. In the UK they still do not have any 661s available either, which is the same as here in the US.



I saw a program on Satellite this afternoon of a competition where the 661 was shown running. I believe there were several people in the crowd with the mythical saw. On a lighter note The dealers I am in contact with said they have stock on the saw and i is selling well. There was a fellow from Hungary last week with a brand new 661 that wanted to post a few vids. Hopefully he will .


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## windthrown (May 17, 2014)

People that I know and converse with in Germany and Austria say that they have not have not been able to order the 661, nor have they seen any in stock there. They say that they will be able to order them again in July, 2014, and they expect delivery in August. So the revised edition 661 will be out soon in the EU.


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## Stihl working hard (May 17, 2014)

windthrown said:


> Well, the people that I know and converse with in Germany and Austria say that they have not have not been able to order them, nor have they seen any in stock. They say that they will be able to order them again in July, 2014, and they expect delivery in August. So the revised edition 661 will be out soon.


I love it when you talk dirty I can't wait to get mine


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## Rockjock (May 18, 2014)

windthrown said:


> People that I know and converse with in Germany and Austria say that they have not have not been able to order the 661, nor have they seen any in stock there. They say that they will be able to order them again in July, 2014, and they expect delivery in August. So the revised edition 661 will be out soon in the EU.



And yet I was posting ads for stores with the saw, a price for said saw.. I have to ask why am I able to find it in stock so easily? Funny things is of those that have PM'd me and asked for a location for this saw not 1 has written back saying nope could not find it. or none is stock. I even had a bloke from Greece ask for for a location and he was over the moon with his new 661 I encourage him to do a unboxing video. I think perhaps someone is having fun with you.


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## hamish (May 18, 2014)

Rockjock said:


> And yet I was posting ads for stores with the saw, a price for said saw.. I have to ask why am I able to find it in stock so easily? Funny things is of those that have PM'd me and asked for a location for this saw not 1 has written back saying nope could not find it. or none is stock. I even had a bloke from Greece ask for for a location and he was over the moon with his new 661 I encourage him to do a unboxing video. I think perhaps someone is having fun with you.


 
How bout you go on a road trip and see if in fact they actually have the saw in stock? The posting of adverts found on the internet are completely irrelevant.

I had marketing material for the 562 almost 2 years before it was even available in the US. Believe nothing you are told till such time as you can hold one in your hands.


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## windthrown (May 18, 2014)

Amusing. I have Rocky on my ignore list now, as he is the only person I have heard from who's opinion is completely contrary to what I am being told by dozens of sources about the 661 worldwide. The fact is that there are first edition 661s floating round out there as many were sold before the 'not a recall' recall. I never said that there were not. In fact there were (and maybe still are) some number of original edition 661s in saw shops out there. As a 'non-recalled' saw, owners and shops were allowed to keep them if they wanted to. There may be a few dealers/distributors that ordered and kept a large number of 661 saws, but I have no confirmation of that. However, those are the exceptions to the otherwise overwhelming rule here. Most of the unsold 661 saws in the US, UK and Germany were returned to the factory in Germany where they were all made. Most, if not all of the problem and failed 661 saws that were returned to dealers in the US, UK and Germany were also returned to the factory. Any photography of those failed saws were not allowed by Stihl.

As I have posted earlier in this thread, from 3 different Stihl factory/corporate sources in the US, UK and Germany, the 661 failed internal quality assurance testing and were withdrawn from this markets. Stihl stopped production on the 661 saws earlier this year to work on a redesign of the cylinder. They also restarted production of the 660 saw as a stop gap to provide to customers during the 661 redesign. The redesigned 661 saws will not be made available until the August/September timeframe of this year (2014). They may be available as early as late July in Germany. That is consistent with what I read and heard from friends and associates in the US, UK and Germany, as well as Denmark, France, Austria, Italy and Greece, and even Australia. It is also consistent with what I have been told here by several dealers in this area. They also warned me: "You do not want any of the 661s that are out there now."

The 661 remains on many Stihl web sites and in ads, as the ads were already released at the end of last year when the 661 made its debut. There are even ads for the 661 in Australia, but it was never released or sold there. They were tested there before they went into production though. They were also tested here in the western US by people I know personally. I did not test one (nor any other Stihl prototype saw in the past), so I did not have to sign any non-disclosure agreements, which testers had to do. So I can flap my yap about the 661 whereas many that know a lot about it cannot. Which is a big reason why there is little information on this; Stihl does not want any negative publicity about their new flagship 661 chainsaw failure. In many cases the Stihl dealers know little or nothing about any of this.


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## Rockjock (May 18, 2014)

have your sources in Germany and Austria send me a pm. Then they can report back to you that they indeed have seen the saw, picked up the saw, bought the saw and are enjoying the saw. This whole silliness of no photos, no official comment and the fact that people are mentioning that they have the saw, and have seen it still for sale must mean something. Unlike the US and Canada you can not place an advert for a product that does not exist or is not available. But if you insist on photographic proof then I will ask some of the blokes in Germany, Austria, Poland, Hungary, and Greece to post photos. 

ignore list indeed.


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## blsnelling (May 18, 2014)

Rockjock, you're missing the point. We all know that there are 661s out there. The fact of the matter is that Stihl pulled them back. Call it a recall or whatever you like, there's no question that they were requested back. We have too many sources world wide to believe anything else.


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## Rockjock (May 18, 2014)

blsnelling said:


> Rockjock, you're missing the point. We all know that there are 661s out there. The fact of the matter is that Stihl pulled them back. Call it a recall or whatever you like, there's no question that they were requested back. We have too many sources world wide to believe anything else.



I guess my problem in all this is that when I asked I was told recall? what you mean I have them in stock. Then others came forth and said what do you mean I just bought one. I just ordered one and it arrives in a week. When I would ask for something, any little tidbit of proof all I was ever told was this person said that their cousin said there was a recall. I dunno I will be in lower Bavaria in a weeks time so I suppose when I walk into my local dealer he will not have a single one on the shelf. The dealer network in Waiblingen all verify they have stock or can get it. That is as you know stihl territory. 
But hey we are all enthusiasts here so until I visit the dealers myself and see with my own eyes that the saws are on the shelves I will not take what the dealers say as fact.


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## Cody (Aug 20, 2014)

Was at one of the local Stihl dealers yesterday inquiring about the 661 and was told that they won't sell any until the 660's are all gone, no new information there for most of you. I'm from NW Iowa so not sure where the dealer gets their saws from, but they were told that they have 60 660's to sell first. I half ass searched but didn't see any updates, and this is just purely FYI for those who aren't aware.


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## MustangMike (Aug 20, 2014)

I know many dealers kept selling non M-Tronic 362s for months after the M-Tronic versions were available.


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## Mastermind (Aug 20, 2014)

Believe me fellers.......when they are available, I will have several.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Aug 20, 2014)

Didnt jasha get into some **** for posting pics of the 461 he got to work with prior to its release ?


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## Hinerman (Aug 20, 2014)

MustangMike said:


> I know many dealers kept selling non M-Tronic 362s for months after the M-Tronic versions were available.


 
My dealer still has one (non M-tronic 362).....


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## Mastermind (Aug 20, 2014)

I think he did....


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## SAWMIKAZE (Aug 20, 2014)

Who cares anyway..i just left a dealer by me who called whoever they talk to and he said he can order me one sept 1st


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 20, 2014)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Who cares anyway..i just left a dealer by me who called whoever they talk to and he said he can order me one sept 1st


Agreed who cares when the 390xp is still being made


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## Mastermind (Aug 20, 2014)

Yeah but the MS661 will still be killing trees when the 390XP is in the scrap heap. 





























Sorry Chris.........I had too.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Aug 20, 2014)

KenJax Tree said:


> Agreed who cares when the 390xp is still being made



Stihl has HD2's ..so they are better , in all honesty the way it seems i think stihl is gonna have a leg on husqvarna in the 90cc gang..maybe not when the 590xp comes out though


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 20, 2014)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Stihl has HD2's ..so they are better , in all honesty the way it seems i think stihl is gonna have a leg on husqvarna in the 90cc gang..maybe not when the 590xp comes out though


HD2,dual port muffler,square chain,10mm, blah! blah! blah!!!


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## Mastermind (Aug 20, 2014)

Muh daddy can whoop your daddy.......

My dog can tree a coon better too.

Muh Chevy is better........etc......etc......


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 20, 2014)

Yeah well......whatever Randy


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## treesmith (Aug 20, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah but the MS661 will still be killing trees when the 390XP is in the scrap heap.



How true, I knew this when I bought my 390 and I still knew it when I sold my 660


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## Mastermind (Aug 20, 2014)

I'm just joking you know. 


The 390XP will be parted out........not totally scrapped.


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## Trx250r180 (Aug 20, 2014)

Ohhhhhhhh brand bashing ...........I like it


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## stihl for life (Aug 20, 2014)

we just picked up one of the first 661 sold in canada one mean saw .


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## sld961 (Sep 29, 2014)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> Who cares anyway..i just left a dealer by me who called whoever they talk to and he said he can order me one sept 1st


Did you get one in PA? I just called my dealer in PA and they didn't know when they'll be available. What is the word on when they'll be available in PA?


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## thechainsawguy (Sep 29, 2014)

stihl for life said:


> we just picked up one of the first 661 sold in canada one mean saw .



What length of bar are you running on it, and is it for firewood or falling?

Dave


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## stihl for life (Sep 29, 2014)

thechainsawguy said:


> What length of bar are you running on it, and is it for firewood or falling?
> 
> Dave


Logging and just a 24 . pulls better in hard wood then a longer bar


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## windthrown (Dec 2, 2014)

Back on topic of the OP 661 recall now that the re-issued 661 is available in the EU and much of the US and Canada:

Yes, it is official now. Stihl is quietly recalling 661 saws in the EU and has sent out notices to owners there to have the P&C, base gasket and intake boot replaced on any Stihl MS661 chainsaws with serial numbers between 177 367 909 and 177 751 744. I do not know if any recalls have been sent out in the states, but if you have a 661 saw with a serial number between these I would call your Stihl dealer and ask about it. As usual, Stihl is not saying specifically what or why they failed. All recalled jugs and slugs are being sent back to Stihl in Germany.

That is all...


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## 1Alpha1 (Dec 2, 2014)

All this stuff kind of reminds me of Grayco. That's the company that makes child's car seats. They've been putting out dangerous products for years, and for years, they've been having recalls, and have fought numerous law suits. 

I'm thinking, how complicated can it be to make a safe child's car seat? I'm thinking the same thing about chainsaws. It's not rocket science, so how hard could it be? The Stihl flippy cap is a perfect example. 

It's not like Stihl isn't charging enough for their products to cover the cost of their research and product development.


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## windthrown (Dec 2, 2014)

Well, supposedly the blame for the 661 failures is with Gilardoni and their (seemingly defective) cylinders. Mahle makes better jugs IMO, but the patent expired on their Nikasil process so anyone can make them now. That does not mean others make them as well though.

Also chainsaws are dangerous tools, not like kiddie seats and strollers. Even then if a 661 blows up it will not likely kill anybody. It is costing Stihl a fortune to have released a defective batch of 661 saws, and they are taking it in the pants. Their new exotic top tier product was a flop. Not good. I wish they would have come clean on it though. Too many rumors, too much waiting, and poorly informed dealers with customers left holding the bag on the original release, call-back, re-release, and now, finally long after the fact, a recall. Phhhhutt! Bad for business. IMO they have been more like GM and Toyota with their long drawn out denials and later recalls.


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## Derf (Dec 2, 2014)

Wow, this thread is almost a year old. What took Stihl so long?


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## windthrown (Dec 2, 2014)

Good question. I asked them several times, and they did not answer.


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## MustangMike (Dec 2, 2014)

Agree with everything above, but the 562 problems have been going on even longer and have not been recalled.

Very frustrating stuff.


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## windthrown (Dec 2, 2014)

What what what? I thought that the 562 was the answer to everything in a 60cc class saw?

Personally I believe that is the role of the 361, but that's me. Best saws I have ever owned. Period. No recall, no BS. Though the Euro version is supposed to be even better. Damn EPA...


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## MustangMike (Dec 2, 2014)

That is kinda the way I feel about the 044, especially since I took the advice from you and a few others to improve it a bit.

I've never had the pleasure to run a 361 ... some day!

The EPA steps on performance, then technology learns how to beat it. Look at the performance of the new cars compared to the mid 70s! I think the new saws will keep improving performance, and start reducing the wt also. Maybe in the future, a 60 cc saw will once again be the same wt as the 361.


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## treesmith (Dec 3, 2014)

Our tree gangs have been trying to kill the one 362 non cm in the company, it got ran with the airfilter off for a while, cutting dead dry wattle, also with a blunt chain. I was asked to look at it as it wouldn't turn over at all, stripped cleaned and flushed whole saw inside and out, started it and tuned it, perfect.

It is one tough ass saw and it gets beaten to hell


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## MustangMike (Dec 3, 2014)

Good to know. Hope my C-M version is just as tough!


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## Spectre468 (Dec 3, 2014)

Well, I hope all the issues are resolved with the 661. My dealer just called and said that Mine is ready for pick up.


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## MustangMike (Dec 3, 2014)

Man R U steppin up, that is a Monster of a saw!!! Keep us posted.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Dec 3, 2014)

Spectre468 said:


> Well, I hope all the issues are resolved with the 661. My dealer just called and said that Mine is ready for pick up.
> 
> I pick mine up next tuesday


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## big t double (Dec 3, 2014)

windthrown said:


> What what what? I thought that the 562 was the answer to everything in a 60cc class saw?
> 
> Personally I believe that is the role of the 361, but that's me. Best saws I have ever owned. Period. No recall, no BS. Though the Euro version is supposed to be even better. Damn EPA...


Technically...there was a recall on the 361


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## windthrown (Dec 3, 2014)

big t double said:


> Technically...there was a recall on the 361



For what???


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## big t double (Dec 3, 2014)

It was the 361 that came with that stupid extra brake lever on the rear handle that stopped the clutch when you let go of it. I think it was the q-c?Something was wonky with that brake system so they recalled those models only. Never anything with the machine itself like the 661  Just yankin yer chain a little.


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## Spectre468 (Dec 4, 2014)

MustangMike said:


> Man R U steppin up, that is a Monster of a saw!!! Keep us posted.



Yup, it's a dandy! I asked to have it set up with the 28" bar and 33 RSF. When I got to the dealer, I didn't like the balance, looked at the 32" and 36" bars. Decided to go with the 32" and the $10 upcharge. The 36" was just a bit long and made the saw really nose heavy. This thing balances nicely with the 32". Tell me again why they bother to put a decomp valve on these things? Also, I was surprised to see that it has its own HD2 filter that does not interchange with the 461 HD2 setup. The anti-vibe set up is soooo smooth. Unless it's snowing tomorrow, I'm gonna get it into some wood!


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## windthrown (Dec 4, 2014)

big t double said:


> It was the 361 that came with that stupid extra brake lever on the rear handle that stopped the clutch when you let go of it. I think it was the q-c?Something was wonky with that brake system so they recalled those models only. Never anything with the machine itself like the 661  Just yankin yer chain a little.



Ah, the stupid QC model. Never saw one on a 361. I am not a fan of any of the Q quick stop models. I had a similar Husky saw, a 346xp with a second brake lever on the handle and I never liked that feature, so I sold it (even though it cut well).


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## wood4heat (Dec 4, 2014)

windthrown said:


> For what???



You still a die hard 361 fan? Doesn't seem to be too many of us left around here!


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## Rockjock (Dec 4, 2014)

wood4heat said:


> You still a die hard 361 fan? Doesn't seem to be too many of us left around here!



Count me in as well!


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## windthrown (Dec 4, 2014)

wood4heat said:


> You still a die hard 361 fan? Doesn't seem to be too many of us left around here!



Yep. Actually, I pulled my saws out and ran them all through a truck load of logs that I got this spring. The MS361s remain my favorite.


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## Danny Boy (Dec 8, 2014)

My dealer has the new 661 in stock Its not a ms661 I think he said It was the 661CM anyone hear about them?

I too run a 361


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## MustangMike (Dec 8, 2014)

C-M means M-Tronic, all the pro Stihls except the 461 & 880 have it.


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## Danny Boy (Dec 8, 2014)

Ok, are there any updates on the 661cm? are we ok to buy one now or are they still not right?


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## blsnelling (Dec 8, 2014)

All Stihl saws are MSxxx.


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## Danny Boy (Dec 8, 2014)

blsnelling said:


> All Stihl saws are MSxxx.


 It was the C-M that I was wondering about.
I have only just noticed that.


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## paylesspizzaman (Dec 8, 2014)

I'm very interested in the 661 too. I've been waiting for them to hit the US for a month now. I called my local dealer and was given an MSRP of $1209 with a 20" bar on it and he said he could probably knock off $50 from that. Would take him 2 days to get one. So my conundrum is, should I buy the 661 or wait to see what the price is at another dealer that has been selling 660s for $985 for the past 6 weeks? Or maybe just buy a 660? I also just bought a new Husqvarna T540 and that thing is a beast!


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## paylesspizzaman (Dec 8, 2014)

BTW what is a good price on the 661CM?


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## Danny Boy (Dec 8, 2014)

There 1400


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## porsche965 (Dec 8, 2014)

661c all the way


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## windthrown (Dec 8, 2014)

As for the nomenclature on the 661... the 661s sold in the US are all C models, meaning they are M-tronic. They have electronic metering and control of the carb and ignition/timing advance. You cannot tune them by hand like the older saws. As the M-tronic is considered by Stihl to be a convenience, it gets the C designation (German mentality for you). IMO they should be badged as the MS661 M, but they do not ask me my advice at Stihl. So what you see on the badge on the 661s sold here are MS661 C, but the C really means M, which means M-tronic. Aside from this, there are non M-tronic 661 saws sold in parts of Europe which are badged MS661. Clear as mud?


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## windthrown (Dec 8, 2014)

Danny Boy said:


> Ok, are there any updates on the 661cm? are we ok to buy one now or are they still not right?



As I posted earlier on this thread: Stihl MS661 (CM and non-CM) chainsaws with serial numbers between 177 367 909 and 177 751 744 have been recalled in Europe. One would presume that they should also be recalled here (no word of that happening stateside yet) or just avoided with those serial numbers, unless they have been rebuilt with the new slug, jug, intake boot and gasket. The 661 saws hitting the market now should be the redesigned/revised ones from the factory and good to go.


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## opinion (Dec 8, 2014)

"C" means features. "M" is m-tronic, "E" is easy2start, "B" means quick chain adjuster and so on.


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## sld961 (Dec 8, 2014)

paylesspizzaman said:


> BTW what is a good price on the 661CM?


My buddy just bought one. It was $1049 pho, $1099 with a 25" bar and chain.


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## MustangMike (Dec 8, 2014)

Careful, sometimes Stihl uses the same letters for different things on different saws, for example, on some previous saws, C meant Comfort Feature, and had nothing to do with M-Tronic!


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## paylesspizzaman (Dec 9, 2014)

I'm a noob here, but what does "pho" mean?


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## windthrown (Dec 9, 2014)

MustangMike said:


> Careful, sometimes Stihl uses the same letters for different things on different saws, for example, on some previous saws, C meant Comfort Feature, and had nothing to do with M-Tronic!



According to Stihl, C means any comfort feature, such as the M for M-tronic on the 661. In the past, the C has been designated to the Q model quick stop brake feature, the E Easy 2 Start feature, the B Quick Chain Adjuster, or a combination of these features. I think it gets lost in translation from German.


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## windthrown (Dec 9, 2014)

paylesspizzaman said:


> I'm a noob here, but what does "pho" mean?



Power Head Only (no B&C).


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## GabriSant (Jan 21, 2016)

Hi everybody from Italy! i have a MS661C-M, and i'm having some troubles. I have the old intake boot, but any of you know what else was changed from the first edition?
Mine is a 2013. Lots of power, but a lean idle that sometimes makes the chainsaw stall is driving me crazy!
Thank you in advance!
Gabriele


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## zogger (Jan 21, 2016)

GabriSant said:


> Hi everybody from Italy! i have a MS661C-M, and i'm having some troubles. I have the old intake boot, but any of you know what else was changed from the first edition?
> Mine is a 2013. Lots of power, but a lean idle that sometimes makes the chainsaw stall is driving me crazy!
> Thank you in advance!
> Gabriele



Perhaps a factory software update? Seems the guys said some of the cylinders were bad as well, but don't know. Someone who does will be around to comment.


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## Derrick Sawyer (Jan 22, 2016)

From what i have read and heard on this site, there is a newer coil out. My dealer did not see an update in their system though. So the saw was fine and is now running lean at idle? Might be useful to check the pressure and vacuum and rubber lines to be sure before anything else, and then do the reset by starting without bar on choke for 90 sec, then turn off without hitting throttle, then do same but on run. then put on bar and make 5 cuts. I just fixed a 2013 661 that had a bad crank and the clutch seal was leaking air, as well as decomp valve, and had o-ring loose in intake. I did replace the boot with new style, and replaced seals and crank, runs good now with original coil and carb, and idles fine, though only had 2 tanks so far.


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## windthrown (Jan 22, 2016)

I would suspect the M-tronic unit, as that controls the carb.


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## DND 9000 (Jan 23, 2016)

The new control unit for the MS 661 C is 1144 400 4720. (replaced old one was 1144 400 4710) What I`ve read here is that it should run richer in the cut with the new control unit.


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## Derrick Sawyer (Jan 23, 2016)

After you confirm if there is no vac/pressure leak, next cheapest thing is to buy a new solenoid, someone posted here somewhere a technical information bulletin update on replacement of solenoid with service notes and troubleshooting if engine does not start or dies at idle or speed drops under load. Solenoid here was about $20 here and sounds like the most common part that needs to be replaced, so often in stock at dealers as a "spare part", mine is walbro, same if zama but different style holder for solenoid. Also order new intake tube, not too expensive, new ones at my dealer have them installed from factory. Its very likely one of the old style o-rings is loose in there.


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## brotherbuck (Sep 9, 2018)

I want to update this post. I've never posted before but am a longtime lurker. About a week ago my 661 did the thing it always does, gets hard to start and forced me to put it down in the middle of sawing wood on the job and go to a smaller saw. I pulled the spark plug and it looked suspect so I ran and got another. The saw ran but still acted up. Saturday I did some big white pine takedowns and the saw started acting up again, except this time it broke. I took off the b&c and starter and tried to turn by hand, its locked up. Started looking on forums , it seems I have the bad cylinder and module. I purchased the saw 6/25/15. I cant find newer posts because apparently these saws were called back and the problem remedied by stihl before a lot got to the public. I dont use the saw every day and not much in winter. 3 years and two months, just out of warranty. I bought the saw after a storm and I believe the shop had sold all of their saws. I asked for a 460 , they said they were out but would give me a 660 at the 460 cost. I put it in the truck and left, not noticing it was a 661 until later, which I did not know existed at the time and certainly did not know were recalled. Has anyone else had one of these saws blow up prematurely? All of my saws are under 5yrs old. All going strong, including the 193 and 201 which see the most use. just looking to get some light shed on this and wondering if I'm screwed or not by stihl and the dealer that sold a saw that was supposed to go back to Germany to be refitted.


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## MustangMike (Sep 9, 2018)

If you had a recalled saw, and did not know it, I would contact a dealer and see what they say.


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## andy at clover (Sep 9, 2018)

brotherbuck said:


> I want to update this post. I've never posted before but am a longtime lurker. About a week ago my 661 did the thing it always does, gets hard to start and forced me to put it down in the middle of sawing wood on the job and go to a smaller saw. I pulled the spark plug and it looked suspect so I ran and got another. The saw ran but still acted up. Saturday I did some big white pine takedowns and the saw started acting up again, except this time it broke. I took off the b&c and starter and tried to turn by hand, its locked up. Started looking on forums , it seems I have the bad cylinder and module. I purchased the saw 6/25/15. I cant find newer posts because apparently these saws were called back and the problem remedied by stihl before a lot got to the public. I dont use the saw every day and not much in winter. 3 years and two months, just out of warranty. I bought the saw after a storm and I believe the shop had sold all of their saws. I asked for a 460 , they said they were out but would give me a 660 at the 460 cost. I put it in the truck and left, not noticing it was a 661 until later, which I did not know existed at the time and certainly did not know were recalled. Has anyone else had one of these saws blow up prematurely? All of my saws are under 5yrs old. All going strong, including the 193 and 201 which see the most use. just looking to get some light shed on this and wondering if I'm screwed or not by stihl and the dealer that sold a saw that was supposed to go back to Germany to be refitted.



You bought it June25'2016 but when was it made?
On the handle will be the epa tag. Look for the DM and then month year.
I had a DM 6- 2013 and it was problematic. A saw I got later was a 09- 2016 saw and was sweet.... really sweet.

One thing might be to search the best dealer in your area. They can run a search of the Serial number and tell you if it falls into a Recall range.


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## porsche965 (Sep 9, 2018)

I've had -0- problems since the first Gen into the current Gens. 661 is a very nice chainsaw. I did update the coils this year to the current available at N/C from the Dealer. Boy do they just cut wood. 

Should buy a lottery ticket I guess. But I make my own fortunes through endless hard work.


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## brotherbuck (Sep 9, 2018)

I bought it on 6-25-15. I looked and he serial number falls in the range posted here. I have the receipt. Serial number written on it. I took it to my local stihl dealer and they said they'd call the rep on Monday. He also said I should've gotten a notice. I looked at the cylinder and electronics and it's the old part #s.


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## brotherbuck (Sep 9, 2018)

Andy at clover, when u say problematic, how so anx what was the outcome?


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## Derrick Sawyer (Sep 9, 2018)

Good luck with the saw, i thought they had things ironed out by that date of manuf. I rebuilt one from 2013 that had seized, . I needed to put a new crank and piston/cylinder and also updated the intake boot (dealer gave me a great deal), that was in 2015. Runs well when i need it , just had to replace the solenoid once that's it, needs a recalibration once in a while (when it doesn't hold idle long) I'm quite surprised you got a 661 for the price of a 460.


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## Cody (Sep 9, 2018)

MustangMike said:


> If you had a recalled saw, and did not know it, I would contact a dealer and see what they say.



My 661 was out of warranty as well and they still replaced both intake boot and ignition coil no questions asked for no charge, didn't say anything about the muffler being opened up either. 



porsche965 said:


> I've had -0- problems since the first Gen into the current Gens. 661 is a very nice chainsaw. I did update the coils this year to the current available at N/C from the Dealer. Boy do they just cut wood.
> 
> Should buy a lottery ticket I guess. But I make my own fortunes through endless hard work.



I forget what # coil they put on mine, 4702A maybe? It's posted somewhere on here but either way, noticeable amount of increased power, very happy with how that saw cuts now even though I had no complaints before other than hot starts. Of course when I called the dealer about it I told them it was screaming high rpm, just didn't tell them I was cutting a hollow ash log that was just over 2' diameter.


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## Derrick Sawyer (Sep 9, 2018)

Dang that date of manuf is the same as the blown up one i fixed, Oct 2013. Hope it doesnt have the one i fixed had, the crank needle bearing busted and made it up into cylinder, damaging the top....pretty much what you would refer to as roasted


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## brotherbuck (Sep 9, 2018)

My worry is because its kind of old history now they won't honor it. Either way it's probably not going to happen overnight so Ill most likely end up buying a 441 on Monday. I sure hope the bottom end isnt damaged. I'm not taking it apart til I hear from stihl. Thanks for your responses. Ill update when I know more


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## brotherbuck (Sep 10, 2018)

I took the saw back to the shop under the direction of a stihl rep. He said have them look at it and call him. The rings fell out of the muffler when pulled. No carbon on plug or in muffler just gray-white and bone dry. They said probably bottom end shot too because piston looked like it was slapping. All I know so far. In the meantime, I'm not buying a new saw , waiting for something injected to come along now. Picked up an 046 and 036 for $600 today. Tested 046 at 145 psi.


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## MustangMike (Sep 10, 2018)

Great price for the two, but that is low for an 046. What is the SN of your 046?


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## brotherbuck (Sep 10, 2018)

Where do I find that? Should be like 175psi right. Just has to get me through a lil while, cant be without a large saw. Not quite ready to chunk down the big money again.


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## Derrick Sawyer (Sep 10, 2018)

Dang where did those saws come from? You must be on the Western side of PA since I didn't see those on any website and i troll within an hour from Philly burbs where i am. Luckily I don't have much cutting left for winter and can focus on more important things....like opening day archery for North American Whitetail this Saturday


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## brotherbuck (Sep 10, 2018)

I'm in bucks. Trolled hard trying to get a replacement fast. Facebook. Out of Jersey. Met me over Burlington Bristol. He asked if I was definitely buying cause he was getting hit up so hard and wanted to change the ad to sold. Has an ms200 too.


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## MustangMike (Sep 10, 2018)

brotherbuck said:


> Where do I find that



There is a flat spot on the case right above the chain, if you clean it off you should see it. Always 12 #s, will start with a 1. The reason I ask, I think a lot of the D jug saws came from the factory with less compression then the Hemi saws, which generally have 160-175 PSI stock.

If it is a D jug saw, I would definitely check the squish, and likely delete the base gasket.


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## brotherbuck (Sep 10, 2018)

I'll look tomorrow. I read your post on another thread about the car type compression tester and pulling til it stops, which I did and I got 155 cold.


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## MustangMike (Sep 10, 2018)

I think that was someone else's post. 155 is decent.


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## 2 Stroke Pete (Sep 12, 2018)

WOW, I was thinking about trading my 461 in for a 661, now am a little hesitant, hmm. Would be a shame to trade in a very reliable machine and possibly receive a unit that has issues. I would have thought any issues would be addressed by now in 2018???


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## dustinwilt68 (Sep 12, 2018)

My Stihl dealer discounts 461s to loggers so they don't buy 661s, one logger still buys the 661, always has a few of them at the shop, just loves the power, but hates the reliability. 661s help sell a lot of 395s for husky around here.


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## Cody (Sep 15, 2018)

2 Stroke Pete said:


> WOW, I was thinking about trading my 461 in for a 661, now am a little hesitant, hmm. Would be a shame to trade in a very reliable machine and possibly receive a unit that has issues. I would have thought any issues would be addressed by now in 2018???



I would expect them to be sorted out at this point, I would think that if there are issues it would still be with earlier produced saws but wouldn't be the first time I'd be wrong.


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## andy at clover (Sep 15, 2018)

Cody said:


> I would expect them to be sorted out at this point, I would think that if there are issues it would still be with earlier produced saws but wouldn't be the first time I'd be wrong.


One just needs to find a later saw.
The 2013 MS661 I had was trouble for the previous owner and then for me.
It had a bunch of warranty repairs and finally a full overhaul before I got it.
Then when I had it a crack was discovered on the Clutch-side.... leaked and would not run right.
I barely got a full tank through it and never got to fall with it... bummer.
Got it gone and found a 2016 MS661R.

The 2016 was a Great saw. Could see some changes.
The Clutch cover had changed. Everything seemed tighter fitting.
Subjective of course.....I would not worry about MS661 saws built after 2016.
If I get one big project I'm bidding on... I'll buy another.

Stihl should have field tested the MS661 longer. 
I think they learned their lesson which is one reason why the MS462 is taking so long to arrive.


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## brotherbuck (Sep 19, 2018)

Yea I think I just started my business at a bad time to buy saws. Maybe the Obama EPA forced their hand to do some things they weren't ready for. The 201t wouldn't idle til I yanked out the spark arrestor and pried the louvre open. 362 is okay but I did not know about the summer/winter flippy thing so that was a pita till I figured it out I'm pretty sure if stihl doesnt do anything or me I'll sell the carcass and start looking for a cherry 066 or 660 for now. These saws all seem fat and heavy to me. The 036 and 46 I just got start way easier too.


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## brotherbuck (Oct 2, 2018)

I brought the saw home and took the cylinder off. The top end is wiped but the crank seems fine. Will stihl just give me the updated coil and whatever else or diagnose it or something ? The first dealer- I know more about saws than them


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## steve easy (Oct 3, 2018)

$1200 for p&c here, mate just toasted his one. He was considering a repair and told the dealer it would be stihls last chance, my advice was to put the money into a new saw and not another 661 unless you like gambling.


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## KiwiBro (Oct 3, 2018)

steve easy said:


> $1200 for p&c here, mate just toasted his one. He was considering a repair and told the dealer it would be stihls last chance, my advice was to put the money into a new saw and not another 661 unless you like gambling.


Happy with my 395, but to be honest, haven't used it as much as planned. Certainly glad I waited to see if the probs with the early 661's was an anomaly and sorted promptly. Also glad I don't have to rely on one for a living. Those who do, and relied on Stihl's reputation, have every right to be highly unamused with their basket case/erratic 661's.


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## brotherbuck (Oct 3, 2018)

Meteor topend kit and 660 carb and coil= $350. Worth a shot.


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## steve easy (Oct 4, 2018)

Definitly worth it. When stihl finally put my 661 back to manual carb it was a good saw. I agreed to buy another if they would convert it back straight away. They wouldnt said no need all the problems are sorted....that was 3 390's ago.


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## bennn*e (Oct 10, 2018)

I have one of the first sold in aus and have never had a problem. Updated the module, have the intake boot there to do but haven’t got around to it yet


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