# today's job "step cut 3"



## murphy4trees (Dec 11, 2010)

Note: I put up a "step cut" thread in commercial forum, if you'd like to see the earlier discussion

Here's a job we did today.. Its a perfect example of why I love to use the step cut.. Its a big time and energy saver. Stump was 40"+ at the cut. Took me less than 60 seconds to finish the flush cut and run the piece through the chipper. I left the saw's audio in for that cut only, so you all can tell that the flush cut was put up in real time and unedited. 

Even though its gonna make me sound as arrogant as ever, here the details.. 85' tulip.. up and down in the hooks, lowered everything out to protect the lawn and make clean up easier. 24 or 25 cuts roped down. I threw the customer a bone and spent almost an hour in the bucket doing a bit of pruning on the two trees in the background (locust and maple) take all the wood and grind the stump (gridings backfilled) ... $2500.. I doubt customer got other prices as his landscaper refered me, though I bid it last summer and only got the green light last week.

Tree was on the ground in 2:45 after I stepped on the property. Alternator on the bucket went, so I had to go back to a vehicle left at the AM job to get jumper cables, then home to pick up the stump grinder, as my neighbor had borrowed the truck that pulls it, then picked up lunch. Even with all that this job grossed right around $100/man/hour, including travel both ways and lunch.

Moral of the story:
$$$ talks and BS walks...
Even with a nice number on the job, the only way to make that kind of coin in this business is by operating with efficiency in all areas, from setting lines to clean up. 

Here it is, 3:43 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ8syV5LVOE


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## a_lopa (Dec 11, 2010)

Good work,I wouldn't be put off if others can't get there head around your techniques your making the $$$ they hope one day to make and never will!

I think you need a bigger chipper thou.


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2010)

a_lopa said:


> Good work,I wouldn't be put off if others can't get there head around your techniques your making the $$$ they hope one day to make and never will!
> 
> I think you need a bigger chipper thou.



Hey loopa,

Why you always thinkin he makes more buck$ than anyone else? 

Yawn, I just don't buy into it.


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## randyg (Dec 11, 2010)

*Step cut/snap cut as felling cut?????*

Sorry, not getting it? If you just make the same face cut but down low close to the ground, and back cut at same level, you're done. Don't have that piece to flush and fight over to the chipper. Not buying the safety reason either. You're dropping stems with a rope in them to ensure proper direction. Put small pull on rope and make the back cut. As it starts over take a step or two back.

Not trying to be wise guy, just not getting it.


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## murphy4trees (Dec 12, 2010)

Its not always good to make the notch and therefore the hinge down low into the trunk flare.. for any number of reasons.. I've made plenty of notches at ground level and will prefer that to the step cut when I feel comfortable with the cut.. BUT when the hinge needs to be a little higher.. even 6", I'll use the step cut.


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## treevet (Dec 12, 2010)

you're a little nutty Murph (so am I) but it is always good to see you show up when you get around to it at times.


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## treemandan (Dec 13, 2010)

murphy4trees said:


> Its not always good to make the notch and therefore the hinge down low into the trunk flare.. for any number of reasons.. I've made plenty of notches at ground level and will prefer that to the step cut when I feel comfortable with the cut.. BUT when the hinge needs to be a little higher.. even 6", I'll use the step cut.



I think you still have the same deal going on with cutting through low flares and the reaction it has either way but using your way makes you operate with more of the unknown and while using about the same ammount of cuts you can cut away the unknown and drop it clean with a light tug. Why you would want to set something up to snap under that much force I dunno in such as case as this. I thought the step cut was more appropriate for sending the trunk further from the stump.
I could see how this step cut could very well be used in setting a cut for the cutter to safely exit but under specific circumstances. Or for the one you sent out whole by the porch roof. basically the cut is a snap cut with a notch and actually can get highly unstable with weight above I think. You just dropped a little pole with it there and it seemed to more than it should have.


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## treevet (Dec 13, 2010)

treemandan said:


> I think you still have the same deal going on with cutting through low flares and the reaction it has either way but using your way makes you operate with more of the unknown and while using about the same ammount of cuts you can cut away the unknown and drop it clean with a light tug. Why you would want to set something up to snap under that much force I dunno in such as case as this. I thought the step cut was more appropriate for sending the trunk further from the stump.
> I could see how this step cut could very well be used in setting a cut for the cutter to safely exit but under specific circumstances. Or for the one you sent out whole by the porch roof. basically the cut is a snap cut with a notch and actually can get highly unstable with weight above I think. You just dropped a little pole with it there and it seemed to more than it should have.



you can always cut off the buttress flares then make a notch


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## murphy4trees (Dec 13, 2010)

YOU CAN"T TRUST the wood grain down in the trunk flare.. Sure on a atraight stick with a wide open DZ, and a pull line, you don't need that much trust cause you got it. But anytime there is a need for some serious holding at the hinge, I WILL CUT ABOVE THE FLARE.. NO EXCEPTIONS.. The there are the hollow trunks and rocks etc.. cut the step and bring in the grinder.. keeps the saw sharp!
Look at the first drop into the road.. just that little 6-8" step saved cleaning up a boat of grindings. Open your minds a little!

AM I repeating myself???? 

AGAIN???

I swear this industry is really attached to its same old same old.. Its a wonder we're all not still using manilla rope and the tautline hitch..


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## treevet (Dec 13, 2010)

murphy4trees said:


> YOU CAN"T TRUST the wood grain down in the trunk flare.



Why can't you trust it Murph....it stole somethin from ya? :hmm3grin2orange:




> I swear this industry is really attached to its same old same old.. Its a wonder we're all not still using manilla rope and the tautline hitch..



I got years on manilla and the tautline.....trust em way more than some of your silly tips.

You waste a lot of time on some things and much of what you do in other vids is needlessly dangerous. It'll catch up to you someday.


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## tree MDS (Dec 13, 2010)

murphy4trees said:


> YOU CAN"T TRUST the wood grain down in the trunk flare.. Sure on a atraight stick with a wide open DZ, and a pull line, you don't need that much trust cause you got it. But anytime there is a need for some serious holding at the hinge, I WILL CUT ABOVE THE FLARE.. NO EXCEPTIONS.. The there are the hollow trunks and rocks etc.. cut the step and bring in the grinder.. keeps the saw sharp!
> Look at the first drop into the road.. just that little 6-8" step saved cleaning up a boat of grindings. Open your minds a little!
> 
> AM I repeating myself????
> ...



Just cuz you finally decided to cut the mullet after god knows how many 
years, doesnt make you some kind of innovator dude.. I honestly dont know what makes you think you're so special murph..


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## treeslayer (Dec 14, 2010)

treevet said:


> you're a little nutty Murph (so am I) but it is always good to see you show up when you get around to it at times.



why you're both good tree guys.


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## treevet (Dec 14, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> why you're both good tree guys.



you too amigo


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## limbwalker54 (Dec 14, 2010)

Mr. Murphy I like your videos. I like your techniques and I enjoy watching other guys do things right. However, I question the need for the "step cut" here. Were you trying to save time on the flush cut only? You made the same amount of cutting as if you were traditionally notching the piece up higher where you could trust the wood, then flush cutting the base......I just fail to see the reason for the cut in this situation...you have a skid loader to load the wood....right? (Think I saw the RC 30 there).....

Wood looked sound, right? (from the movie it does)...so why the special step cut?

My 2 cents.....just wanna know the thinking behind the cut.


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## murphy4trees (Dec 15, 2010)

There are a lot of reasons to use this cut..
it actually is a bit less cutting than making a standard notch and backcut finished with a seperate flush cut, because half of the backcut does not need to be made. BUT that is the least of the reasons.. 

If you are used to using the plunge cut, then you realize that this cut is easy and quick to make. Its not the big deal that people are going off about, like its advanced calculus..

Its quicker and easier to make the notch above the trunk flare and anytime a house or other valuable propoerty is in the potential DZ, I feel better with the hinge above the root flare.. When you lose your first tree casue the fibers in the hinge were all swirley, it effects you!


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## treemandan (Dec 15, 2010)

murphy4trees said:


> YOU CAN"T TRUST the wood grain down in the trunk flare.. Sure on a atraight stick with a wide open DZ, and a pull line, you don't need that much trust cause you got it. But anytime there is a need for some serious holding at the hinge, I WILL CUT ABOVE THE FLARE.. NO EXCEPTIONS.. The there are the hollow trunks and rocks etc.. cut the step and bring in the grinder.. keeps the saw sharp!
> Look at the first drop into the road.. just that little 6-8" step saved cleaning up a boat of grindings. Open your minds a little!
> 
> AM I repeating myself????
> ...



Ok Ok I 'll do it, I''ll do it dam it!


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## tree MDS (Dec 15, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Ok Ok I 'll do it, I''ll do it dam it!



I'm gonna skip that one..

Gonna stick with my manila rope and taughtline too.. if it aint broke, and it hasn't broken you yet, why screw with it!


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## treemandan (Dec 16, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> I'm gonna skip that one..
> 
> Gonna stick with my manila rope and taughtline too.. if it aint broke, and it hasn't broken you yet, why screw with it!



I ain't gonna do it! I was just that so he would stop hollering. I would have sliced off another 5.5 foot section from the top and cut the quickest easiest notch I could. I hate cutting big notches on the ground. 5.5 feet is how long I can roll logs into my truck and I would have pushed it off right quick so I see what he is saying about effecient. I would have cut it high and taken all the good nice trunk wood to split and hauled the last stump cut ( which would have been quite low) to the dump cause we all know how that #### is. Hey anybody ever tell this guy most of the stuff he does I do all by myself?:yoyo:


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## limbwalker54 (Dec 16, 2010)

I would have cut that notch nice and high and then flushed the stump....took the knuckleboom and picked up the stub after I loaded the rest of the wood on the truck......

I'm with you dan.... I don't like to cut big notches either unless I have to......


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## treevet (Dec 16, 2010)

If you got a 090 av with a 6 foot bar (like I do) stump flushin ain't all that bad. Neither is stump notchin.


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## murphy4trees (Dec 16, 2010)

treevet said:


> If you got a 090 av with a 6 foot bar (like I do) stump flushin ain't all that bad. Neither is stump notchin.



Of course not, but sharpening the chain really sucks!


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## treevet (Dec 16, 2010)

murphy4trees said:


> Of course not, but sharpening the chain really sucks!



Not too bad on a machine Murph

And don't forget......about where you are cutting is where signs, dog runs, clothes lines and other stuff get nailed. After I slam a tree the base always gets cut last because of this.


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## RandyMac (Dec 17, 2010)

Two minutes in, you will see the real stepcut aka blockcut. time to hit the way back machine, maybe you could get a patent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHSkHeC7bRI


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## treevet (Dec 17, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Two minutes in, you will see the real stepcut aka blockcut. time to hit the way back machine, maybe you could get a patent.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHSkHeC7bRI



REALLY cool vid Randy!


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## RandyMac (Dec 17, 2010)

Just passing it along TV, I am clearly stuck in my day. Murph is showing the symptoms of this high speed world we are in, trying hard to come up with some complicated process to replace things that are simpler and always worked.


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## flushcut (Dec 17, 2010)

Sweet video there Randy!


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## 1I'dJak (Dec 18, 2010)

I gotta say thats one silly ass, convoluted, contrived and overly intellectualized cuts I've ever seen...I don't know why you're continually showing it off like its the be all and end all of falling cuts.... post the video of you making the cut and boring the #### outta it to show how fast it really is.. then post it on the falling forum...maybe I've been shown how to do things different...but I can't help but shake my head...the step plus the bore, the face cut that seems way to shallow for a stem...the reefing of the pull line... the arrogance and the smug attitude...dunno...maybe its just me... but whatever...


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 18, 2010)

That is just a standard bored backcut/with a low backstrap trip. Granted, you are cutting the backcut extremely low (and well into the diameter of the stump) as to set it all up and truly trip it off with a pull. One man can actually do it this way.

It is a little different and has it's benefits at times. The only time I've used it is when pulling a slight backleaner by myself.


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## murphy4trees (Dec 18, 2010)

Jak,
I like how you put all that.. for some reason it's easier not to take it personally when you say "maybe its just me"..

I tend to go with shallow faces, when pulling with a line and when the stick is straight etc. Look at the torn hinge fibers after the fall. There's plenty enough there. Only one place to go.. and a deeper notch takes more cutting..

anyhow, the step cut has its uses in suburban situations.. I don't see it giving a logger any advantages.. So it might depend on your perspective..

Boring the back cut is quick and easy enough in most situations. Just takes a bit of getting used to. I like it cause it lets me set the height of the back cut precisely.. 

So use it if you need it, or leave it if you dare.. and don't let my arrogance effect your judgment.. It's all good!


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## RandyMac (Dec 18, 2010)

You have it right Murph, loggers and arborist have different missions, with some overlap. I saw the term "stepcut" and zeroed in, only to see that it was something else, maybe a rename is in order, since that name is taken.
Innovation is tough these days, so many things have been tried, most have been ditched as there was no real advantage, that doesn't mean to quit trying. Specialized cuts have their place, I wrote an article on the stepcut, tracing it's history, usage in modern times, along with bad diagrams and some old pics. It is not a facecut to be used on everything, until you understand the varibles involved, it should be avoided. What most sawyers don't get right away, is that the primary function of the facecut, is how the tree falls, not just where.
I'll go back the where I belong, happy hewing to all.


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## murphy4trees (Dec 18, 2010)

Randy,
Thanks,
I didn't know there was a face cut called the "step cut".
I originally called this cut the "step back cut" but changed it to just "step cut", as the latter seemed to slide off the tongue better.. I guess I'll have to go back to calling it the "step back cut"..

can you Pm or email me that article???? or share a bit more about the step face cut? Seems like aneedless hassle.. what is it used for?

Thanks..


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## RandyMac (Dec 18, 2010)

Daniel, I'll put a link to the short version in a PM. If you think it's worth sharing or if anyone else has questions, maybe I can sketch it in.

It is still in use, I cut 100s of them.

gratuitous photo of stepcut tree. 







the same tree about to hit the snipe.






the mess


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## treevet (Dec 18, 2010)

murphy4trees said:


> Randy,
> Thanks,
> I didn't know there was a face cut called the "step cut".
> I originally called this cut the "step back cut" but changed it to just "step cut", as the latter seemed to slide off the tongue better.. I guess I'll have to go back to calling it the "step back cut"..
> ...



http://deoxy.org/emperors.htm


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## RandyMac (Dec 18, 2010)

treevet said:


> http://deoxy.org/emperors.htm




Oh my! :hmm3grin2orange:

I'm takin' my whiskey elsewhere.


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## murphy4trees (Dec 18, 2010)

Are you talking about a block cut? Fundamentals pg 307? couldn't find any reference to step cuts ...

Hey its all logger talk anyhow.. arborists are ahead of the game if they know how to spell the word "hinge"..


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## murphy4trees (Dec 18, 2010)

OK,
I saw it in the video link... But is that cut really still used today? Maybe the name should be changed to the stair cut, cause it looks more like stairs, where as the step backcut looks just like one step.. Maybe its time to move on..


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