# hayauchi vs hayate



## imagineero (Oct 28, 2010)

Hi all,
Just hoping for some real world feedback before shelling out my hard earned sometime in the next month. I find myself often getting edged out on smaller pruning jobs (overhanging gutters/eaves etc) where there might be just a couple of branches to remove in the well under 6" category. I dont have a bucket truck so I either have to price climbing into the job or (much more often) the hire of a cherry picker due to a very extended branch or poor overhead access. I'm thinking for these one or two branch jobs a good pole saw wood pay for itself real fast. As usual in aus we pay double or more for this kind of stuff despite the near 1:1 dollar ratio.

Have read a lot of good reviews on the hayauchi, they're selling at about $450 in aus now. The hayate looks every bit as good in tersm of quality (and why not, its a silky) but going for $680 (!). I wouldn't mind shelling out the extra for the extra reach as this is something I'm likely to only buy once. Well, I do mind, but lets just get it over with ;-) 

Any and all feedback welcomed, especially on the hayate!

Shaun


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## deevo (Oct 28, 2010)

imagineero said:


> Hi all,
> Just hoping for some real world feedback before shelling out my hard earned sometime in the next month. I find myself often getting edged out on smaller pruning jobs (overhanging gutters/eaves etc) where there might be just a couple of branches to remove in the well under 6" category.  I dont have a bucket truck so I either have to price climbing into the job or (much more often) the hire of a cherry picker due to a very extended branch or poor overhead access. I'm thinking for these one or two branch jobs a good pole saw wood pay for itself real fast. As usual in aus we pay double or more for this kind of stuff despite the near 1:1 dollar ratio.
> 
> Have read a lot of good reviews on the hayauchi, they're selling at about $450 in aus now. The hayate looks every bit as good in tersm of quality (and why not, its a silky) but going for $680 (!). I wouldn't mind shelling out the extra for the extra reach as this is something I'm likely to only buy once. Well, I do mind, but lets just get it over with ;-)
> ...



hayauchi for sure....man they are expensive over there! I paid $229 3 years ago for mine. They are handy at times when used right!


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## treeslayer (Oct 28, 2010)

imagineero said:


> Hi all,
> Just hoping for some real world feedback before shelling out my hard earned sometime in the next month. I find myself often getting edged out on smaller pruning jobs (overhanging gutters/eaves etc) where there might be just a couple of branches to remove in the well under 6" category. I dont have a bucket truck so I either have to price climbing into the job or (much more often) the hire of a cherry picker due to a very extended branch or poor overhead access. I'm thinking for these one or two branch jobs a good pole saw wood pay for itself real fast. As usual in aus we pay double or more for this kind of stuff despite the near 1:1 dollar ratio.
> 
> Have read a lot of good reviews on the hayauchi, they're selling at about $450 in aus now. The hayate looks every bit as good in tersm of quality (and why not, its a silky) but going for $680 (!). I wouldn't mind shelling out the extra for the extra reach as this is something I'm likely to only buy once. Well, I do mind, but lets just get it over with ;-)
> ...



IMO, The extra reach is not needed enough to warrant that extra $$. I VERY seldom open up more than 2 sticks on a pole pruner, any more than that its faster to just climb after, for the labor it takes to cut with a 20" stick.


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## flushcut (Oct 28, 2010)

imagineero said:


> Hi all,
> Just hoping for some real world feedback before shelling out my hard earned sometime in the next month. I find myself often getting edged out on smaller pruning jobs (overhanging gutters/eaves etc) where there might be just a couple of branches to remove in the well under 6" category. I dont have a bucket truck so I either have to price climbing into the job or (much more often) the hire of a cherry picker due to a very extended branch or poor overhead access. I'm thinking for these one or two branch jobs a good pole saw wood pay for itself real fast. As usual in aus we pay double or more for this kind of stuff despite the near 1:1 dollar ratio.
> 
> Have read a lot of good reviews on the hayauchi, they're selling at about $450 in aus now. The hayate looks every bit as good in tersm of quality (and why not, its a silky) but going for $680 (!). I wouldn't mind shelling out the extra for the extra reach as this is something I'm likely to only buy once. Well, I do mind, but lets just get it over with ;-)
> ...



I have not used either but I do own Silky hand saws. I just can't justify the price of their pole saws. I use the Jameson fiberglass poles you can buy four of them and a saw head for about half of the price of a silky. I lately have been using the poles for a concrete bull float and a moded pruner head for the really long reach( 40ft). They are lighter and way stiffer and around $23 US for a six foot but can't be used near power lines. I do know guys that have the Silky and love them. IMO it would take quite a few twig gutter jobs to pay for the Silky saws. Hope it helps


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## imagineero (Oct 28, 2010)

flushcut said:


> I have not used either but I do own Silky hand saws. I just can't justify the price of their pole saws. I use the Jameson fiberglass poles you can buy four of them and a saw head for about half of the price of a silky. I lately have been using the poles for a concrete bull float and a moded pruner head for the really long reach( 40ft). They are lighter and way stiffer and around $23 US for a six foot but can't be used near power lines. I do know guys that have the Silky and love them. IMO it would take quite a few twig gutter jobs to pay for the Silky saws. Hope it helps



I haven't used any of them, but have used some very long ladders (25') and very long extension poles for painting (25' again) which gives me some idea that I dont want something that's going to be crappy and flex. Silky sound lie they've hit on something with their stiff oval shaped poles.

Sounds like you're onto a good thing with the Jameson, I've heard good stuff about them on another site. Any special reason why they cant be used around powerlines? They are fibreglass after all. The silky site says the hayauchi is not to be used within 50' of power. I guess that's litigation talk for you... pretty soon they'll up that spec to 200' ;-) 

Thanks,
Shaun


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## treeseer (Oct 28, 2010)

For the needs you describe, think pruner instead of saw. Barnel's 7 meter pruner works well for reducing overhang, and it is made in Oz. the saw head is okay but a little stiffer than silky's. Usually branch reduction is better for the tree and the landscape. see attached survey.

all that said, pruning is usually undersold when we spec clearance, but the whole tree needs work to achieve clearance without screwing it up.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 28, 2010)

I have both the hayate and the Hyuachi. I also have a 1-3/4 bull lopper, one by Corona, and the other a 1-3/4 by Marvin. I love my reach tools, though I love climbing even more. Climbing with my reach tools, now let's make some $$.

If I had to choose from these four, and rate them in order of overall utility, including profitability, versatility, & durability, cost vs. productivity, here they would be:

#1 without question, Corona 1-3/4" bull lopper
#2 the Hyate, or maybe the Hyuachi
#3 the Hyauchi, maybe the Hyate
#4 Marvin bull lopper


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## flushcut (Oct 28, 2010)

imagineero said:


> I haven't used any of them, but have used some very long ladders (25') and very long extension poles for painting (25' again) which gives me some idea that I dont want something that's going to be crappy and flex. Silky sound lie they've hit on something with their stiff oval shaped poles.
> 
> Sounds like you're onto a good thing with the Jameson, I've heard good stuff about them on another site. Any special reason why they cant be used around powerlines? They are fibreglass after all. The silky site says the hayauchi is not to be used within 50' of power. I guess that's litigation talk for you... pretty soon they'll up that spec to 200' ;-)
> 
> ...



The Jameson poles can be used around power lines as long as they are the core filled poles. The hollow core one are ok to use around power as long as they are dry and clean. I was talking about the aluminum poles not being used around power.


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## Bermie (Oct 28, 2010)

Hayuchi is great...I got mine from Forestry Suppliers for $174 back about three years ago. Check out how much it would be to ship one to you. Difficult to get a good undercut in some angles, possible, but difficult.

The other reach tool I LOVE is my Fiskars 11' extendable bypass pruner. The head rotates 180* so you can get a really good angle on cuts. Its good for about 1" or a bit more for soft stuff.
I've seen Fiskars in Bunnings in Tassie, so must be available where you are.


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## ATH (Oct 28, 2010)

flushcut said:


> The Jameson poles can be used around power lines as long as they are the core filled poles. The hollow core one are ok to use around power as long as they are dry and clean. I was talking about the aluminum poles not being used around power.


When you say "The hollow core ones OK to use around power" what are you basing that on? Certainly nothing from anybody who has tested the poles or certifies them as safe. The solid core poles are labeled for use around power if they are dry and clean. The hollow ones are not, are they?

Why bring that up? Because we all know the Al ones will kill around power, but assuming a fiberglass one is safe just because it is not Al really makes it a more dangerous pole in the wrong hands.

To the OP: I have a Hayate and love it. I dropped a limb on the end of it and crimped the extensions together. Fortunately, I was able to shorten it and still use it - I also bought another one. That also brings up one other thing about the Silky saws: the telescoping poles are a more fragile (and expensive to repair/replace) than fiberglass poles. If you tend to abuse equipment, they may not be the way to go. If you can take care of it (apparently better than I can...) I think either will be a great choice.

With that price difference, I'd probably buy the Hayauchi. Besides being cheaper, it is also lighter and not that much shorter. I got a really good deal the two times I bought my Hayates (first one was just over $200 at Ben Meadows, the second was on sale a couple of years ago at Wesspur and Sherrill beat the price with their 150% price smash).

Finally, I also modified a coupling so I could put a Corona pruning head on the pole (to avoid having another set of poles around). It is too heavy to use this on the fully extended pole, but it is great at 8-16'.


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## flushcut (Oct 29, 2010)

ATH said:


> When you say "The hollow core ones OK to use around power" what are you basing that on? Certainly nothing from anybody who has tested the poles or certifies them as safe. The solid core poles are labeled for use around power if they are dry and clean. The hollow ones are not, are they?
> 
> Why bring that up? Because we all know the Al ones will kill around power, but assuming a fiberglass one is safe just because it is not Al really makes it a more dangerous pole in the wrong hands.
> 
> ...


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## Tree Machine (Oct 29, 2010)

> The Jameson poles can be used around power lines as long as they are the core filled poles. The hollow core one are ok to use around power as long as they are dry and clean.





> assuming a fiberglass one is safe just because it is not Al really makes it a more dangerous pole in the wrong hands.




Fiberglass is fiberglass. It is non-conductive. If it is filled with foam it is even less conductive than non-conductive? That would be a silly presumption.

So if two poles are made of fiberglass, and one is dielectrically rated and the other not, what precisely is the difference? Really, I'm curious. I really don't know. I think this is worthy of a side note if anyone has any objective reasoning for why two fiberglass poles would behave different, assuming the foam itself is nonconductive also.

I personally have to agree that in a dry, clean condition, either pole is made of the same fiberglass from the same production facility. Maybe a fifferent color, maybe a different wall thickness, but fiberglass.


I believe foam would plug the ends from water and debris getting down into the hollow of the pole. Dry and clean on the outside, wet on the inside...... see how that could possibly maybe happen? This assurance could be the tipping point of what gets rated dielectric and which one the rating is left off. Fiberglass, however, still is fiberglass. One should be equally concerned with the pull strap or pull (ugh...) rope. A wet strap/rope can conduct a charge and kill you.



I change over from the Hyuachi to the Hayate every year. Right now I'm using the yellow one, the Hayate. I'm pretty rough on gear. This one has held up nicely, albeit a tad shorter than the 21-footer, this length seems to be just beyond the practical limit for cutting something. Extended to that length, the cut better be small. The slightly shorter Hayate is beefier, and at it's full extension is also a challenge, but, for me anyway, I just slightly prefer the yellow Hayate over the black Hyuachi. Affixing a foxhook to the sawhead was a major improvement. Both, awesome tools.


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## imagineero (Oct 29, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> So if two poles are made of fiberglass, and one is dielectrically rated and the other not, what precisely is the difference? Really, I'm curious. I really don't know. I think this is worthy of a side note if anyone has any objective reasoning for why two fiberglass poles would behave different, assuming the foam itself is nonconductive also.



I'm going to presume you're not a troll and give you what I think is a fair answer. I've spent a lot of my life on mine sites where silly amounts of power (both AC and DC) are all over the place. hundreds of thousands of KV's AC and quite often 200V DC in the 100,000amp+range for electro winning of base metals. Once you get into real power like this you might as well give up all your presumptions about car batteries and home power outlets. 

Big voltage jumps big distances. It doesnt electrocute you so much as blast holes in you, blowing limbs right off your body. We got to watch lots of unfortunate videos and photos as part of regular refresher training so that hopefully it doesnt happen to us. Have a look on youtube if you want to feel sick. You dont have to contact HV directly to be killed. Even at distances of 5 feet or more it will leave a 3" entry and exit hole, and a nice pathway right through your body. 

A lot of the guys on the site are trained in HV rescue (not that there's a lot of value in it), but the rescue poles are rated for the voltage being worked with. If ever i need to work near live power the first question I ask is "how much voltage?". That gives me some idea of how far I want to stay away. In humid/wet conditions the electricity can jump a lot further because the air becomes a better conductor. The formula isnt as simple as "is this material conductive or non conductive" but more like "how non conductive is it?" Will a 10' length resist 10kv? 100kv? 350kv? Solid poles have higher resistance to voltage than hollow poles, but with enough voltage any material is a conductor.

Shaun


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## Tree Machine (Oct 29, 2010)

I have great respect for those trained and knowlegable in the area of voltages



I will not speak for pole-to-pole, or mines or anything beyond what a residential/ commercial arborist should encounter. If we get into line clearance / utility, we're talking a bit out of the scope. THEY do that. They're trained and equipped and prefer that we stay off their right-of way with our work. 


For the rest of us, who fall under this scenario; Homeowner calls the power company, power company asks 'Is it pole-to-pole, or pole-to-house?" homeowner answers "pole-to-house." Power and light replies, you'll need to hire an Arborist.

See, we get calls on this daily and we have to deal with it. Specifically, the voltage we're taliking about is 220, 221, whatever. I know it's the amps that kill you. Question, at these voltages, is fiberglass still not fiberglass?

Back to the pole saws themselves, never, _ever_ safe around power, regardless of voltage level, regardless of dryness. Regardless of the plastic handle wrap that you may think is electrically insulative. It can not be trusted. Needless to say, but there, its been said.


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## treeguyinoh (Oct 30, 2010)

My hayauchi makes more money with little prune jobs than I ever would have imagined. If I had to start over, it would near the top of the list. Longboy is probably next on the list. Havent tried the hayate. Dont bother with the silky pruner attatchment.(Sintung?sp) It is a little to big and awkard to get into a lot of places, and seems to require a little too much pulling to get a complete cut. Either way, you wont go wrong, but I can vouch for the longevity of the hayauchi, and i dont think you would be disappointed.
Dennis


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## capetrees (Oct 30, 2010)

Love my hayauchi. Matter of fact I'm about to buy another one, actually my third one (the first one is to bent to use after a fall). They are great for those thin outreaching branches in strange places. I use it in the tree all the time too. I couldn't justify the price of the hayate. I don't see the difference in what I do with them. 

One thing to always keep in mind, for it to work well, keep it sharp. They stay sharp for a long time but even when you think your blade is sharp, when you put the new one on, total night and day. 

BTW, Silky also makes a bypass pruner attachment for the hayauchi that isn't made for the hayate. That thing is awesome for pruning and reductions.
http://www.wesspur.com/saws/silky-pole-saws.html


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