# Help estimating height of white Spruce w/pic



## Jack_Shaft (May 16, 2009)

Hello all.

This forum has been a wealth of knowedge, so I thought I'd bring this question to you all.

I have a fairly (by my standards) large white spruce that has died next to my cottage. About a year ago it died and is very dry, I am now starting to worry about the root structure since it could do a lot of damage if it came down on my shed or cottage. I really hate to take it down as it is such a tall tree, but with the high winds we get in the Fall, I can either decide to bring it down myself in a controlled environment or I can leave it to mother nature to decide. No thanks.

I am trying to estimate the height of it from the attached pic based on a method I read about on here; take a pic with a known height object parked right next to it, then scale your way up the side of the tree. In my case, the yellow line on the attached picture represents 4'-6", the top of the windshield on my snowmobile. I counted 16-18 of these which gives me about 75' total height.

Does that look about right?


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## tree md (May 16, 2009)

I was fascinated when I learned how they figured out how to measure the height of the pyramids in Egypt by measuring the shadow of something else then using algebra to determine the height of the pyramid.

Here's a cool link on measuring the height of a tree:

http://www.wikihow.com/Measure-the-Height-of-a-Tree


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## tomtrees58 (May 16, 2009)

i guess if the house is 20 ' the tree is 65' ?? tom trees


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## TDunk (May 16, 2009)

tomtrees58 said:


> i guess if the house is 20 ' the tree is 65' ?? tom trees



I'd say that's a fair guess, maybe a hair taller.


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## Jack_Shaft (May 16, 2009)

tree md said:


> I was fascinated when I learned how they figured out how to measure the height of the pyramids in Egypt by measuring the shadow of something else then using algebra to determine the height of the pyramid.
> 
> Here's a cool link on measuring the height of a tree:
> 
> http://www.wikihow.com/Measure-the-Height-of-a-Tree



That's interesting and makes logical sense, thanks for sharing. Unfortunately the shadow of this tree would not be easily distinguished since is lies in the forest with a multitude of other trees. Perhaps if the sun was shining in just the right direction with the tree shadow projected out onto the lake I could pull it off.


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## Jack_Shaft (May 16, 2009)

tomtrees58 said:


> i guess if the house is 20 ' the tree is 65' ?? tom trees



Yes, I also used that as my measuring stick, but the cottage is quite a bit closer to the camera compared to the tree, so this "foreground factor" will make the cottage look bigger than it really is.


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## Jack_Shaft (May 16, 2009)

TDunk said:


> I'd say that's a fair guess, maybe a hair taller.



Good stuff. That's pretty close to my original estimate, should provide some great dry firewood for the next two years.


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## bonker81 (May 16, 2009)

55' by the popsicle stick scale i'm chewing on.


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## Jack_Shaft (May 16, 2009)

bonker81 said:


> 55' by the popsicle stick scale i'm chewing on.



LOL

Better get that sucker recalibrated, it's more than 55'


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## tree md (May 16, 2009)

Not much more than 55'. I'd say 60-65'. No way it's 75. Plus it looks very much green and alive to me. Hire a pro and take the guess work out of it. I never have to figure how tall they are because I climb them and cut them to whatever length I need to make them fit.

Edit: Shouldn't this be in the home owner help forum???


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## True Blue Sam (May 16, 2009)

*Easy Tree Height Measurement*

Take a stick in one hand, extend your arm and lean the stick back toward your face. Use your other hand to pull the top of the stick through your hand until the top of the stick touches you at the corner of your eye. Stand the stick up vertically, and with your head motionless you back away from the tree until the top of your fist lines up with the bottom of the tree, and the top of the stick lines up with the top of the tree. You must hold your head still and roll you eye up and down to be accurate. When it matches, your eye is as far from the base of the tree as the top is from the base. Pace to the tree, or tape it, and you have the height. This is a very good method to determine if your tree can hit things like a powerline, or the neighbors garage.


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## MonkeyMan_812 (May 16, 2009)

That tree is 75 ft tall if you ask me. Measure it after you cut it down and let us know for sure.


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## tree md (May 16, 2009)

Might be. Hard to tell by pics. Regardless of how tall it is, it's a pecker pole and would be a chip shot to drop.


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## TreEmergencyB (May 16, 2009)

:agree2:


tree md said:


> Might be. Hard to tell by pics. Regardless of how tall it is, it's a pecker pole and would be a chip shot to drop.


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## Jack_Shaft (May 17, 2009)

tree md said:


> Might be. Hard to tell by pics. Regardless of how tall it is, it's a pecker pole and would be a chip shot to drop.



Thanks for the belittling words. It's a significant task for me due to the ground hazards and I will certainly enlist the help of a very experienced crew of friends when I do decide to drop it. I live in the far reaches of the north and Arborist Professionals like yourself do not exist up here, so the option to hire is not there for me.

You cannot tell from this one picture just how difficult this tree will be to drop; it has a significant lean away from the shore and will likely have to be fallen that way. The tree is indeed dead and dry and that's why I want it gone. Not a green limb left on it and it has been wood peckered to death.

After printing and scaling the pic, the tree comes out to 70' in height. When it does come down, I will measure it for sure.


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## tree md (May 17, 2009)

Jack_Shaft said:


> Thanks for the belittling words. It's a significant task for me due to the ground hazards and I will certainly enlist the help of a very experienced crew of friends when I do decide to drop it. I live in the far reaches of the north and Arborist Professionals like yourself do not exist up here, so the option to hire is not there for me.
> 
> You cannot tell from this one picture just how difficult this tree will be to drop; it has a significant lean away from the shore and will likely have to be fallen that way. The tree is indeed dead and dry and that's why I want it gone. Not a green limb left on it and it has been wood peckered to death.
> 
> After printing and scaling the pic, the tree comes out to 70' in height. When it does come down, I will measure it for sure.



Sorry bout that. Didn't mean to be belittling.

So hard to tell from pics. The tree looks green as a gourd on my computer.

The way I usually measure them is climb them and if I run out of rope coming down, I know for a fact the tree is over 75'.

I'd suggest getting a throwline in it as high as you can, at least in the top third of the tree (might be hard to do without a bigshot if the tree is that tall), set a line, put a good clean notch in it and pull that puppy over with your friends.

Best of luck.


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## Jack_Shaft (May 17, 2009)

tree md said:


> Sorry bout that. Didn't mean to be belittling.
> 
> So hard to tell from pics. The tree looks green as a gourd on my computer.
> 
> ...



Thanks TreeMD, that is my plan. My good friend with the lineworking crew at my place of work has a great set of climbing spikes and rigging to help me climb, limb (to make it easier to fall) and then place the rope up high.

Should be fun, I will post pics when it drops.


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## Jack_Shaft (May 17, 2009)

tree md said:


> Sorry bout that. Didn't mean to be belittling.
> 
> So hard to tell from pics. The tree looks green as a gourd on my computer.
> 
> ...



I had another look at the picture. I now know why you are seeing green! There is an almost identical tree right behind the dead one. 

Those are the green boughs you are seeing in the background. I didn't even notice it until I had a better look at the picture.


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## tree md (May 17, 2009)

Jack_Shaft said:


> I had another look at the picture. I now know why you are seeing green! There is an almost identical tree right behind the dead one.
> 
> Those are the green boughs you are seeing in the background. I didn't even notice it until I had a better look at the picture.



Be careful spiking up if it's been dead very long. If it still has most of it's needles it is probably still structurally sound. Just be mindful that you are in a dead tree and inspect it for defects and hazards on the way up (IE split from lightening and whatnot).


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## Rickytree (May 17, 2009)

I'd say 58 feet!! Cut it down and tell us! Quit with the suspense already!


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## Rftreeman (May 17, 2009)

62' 9" is my guess........


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## S Mc (May 17, 2009)

Do we have a pool going here? I have 62.1 Ft.

And yes, Jack, I have to say it....BE CAREFUL! Dead trees can lose their integrity. Pay attention to the feel of the wood your spikes are going into. Halfway up should be sufficient to set your line.

Sylvia


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## tree md (May 17, 2009)

63' 2".

Also, if you are going to rappel down or belay down, stay close to the tree. Ease down, don't shock the rope or be rough with it.


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## Kunes (May 17, 2009)

64.577658766ft. cut it already the suspense is killing me.


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## Jack_Shaft (May 18, 2009)

Sorry guys, it's going to be a while before it drops, probably September or so.

I'll just have to hang you up in suspense until then :greenchainsaw:


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## snofrog (May 20, 2009)

you could use a string to find the hight . say from this vantage point hold up a string and mark with your thumb and fingers the top and bottom . holding the bottom of the string steady pull the top 90 degrees over to one side and find a landmark or have an assistant drop a marker . now measure over from the base of the tree to the marker with a tape measure .


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## Jack_Shaft (Sep 16, 2009)

*Almost cuttin' time*

Well, after a lengthy pause, we're almost to the point where this tree is going to come down. This weekend, I'll be installing the preload line and pulley so the tree can have a little push in the right direction, then notching, wedging and falling this tree.

I will have pics and will definitely be taking an accurate measurement of the length to give closure to this thread LOL


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## highasatree (Sep 16, 2009)

How far up north is to far to go? Barry's Bay ON.


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## Lawnmowerboy48 (Sep 16, 2009)

Tell me if I am wrong or color blind but that tree does not look dead. If bark feels dry and flaky, congratulations you have touched the bark of a spruce. What is the history of the site recent construction, logging, etc?


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## moss (Sep 16, 2009)

Throwing my height estimate into the pool, 74 ft., what's the prize?
-moss


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## Komitet (Sep 16, 2009)

walk out from the tree, put your head between your legs, ass facing the tree, when you can see the top through your legs measure the distance from your ass to the trunk.

Oh and I say 72'


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## Nosmo (Sep 17, 2009)

I blew the picture up and measured the height from the ground to the yellow mark which is 4 feet 6 inches (4.5 ft.). The height of the tree from the ground to the tip is 6-3/4 inches.

Each 1/2" in height represents 4-1/2 feet so each 1" would represent 9 feet.

9 x 6.75 = 60.75 - my guess is the tree is 60 feet 9 inches tall.

Nosmo


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## Jack_Shaft (Sep 17, 2009)

highasatree said:


> How far up north is to far to go? Barry's Bay ON.



Labrador. And the site is accessible by snowmobile or boat only, no roads.


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## Jack_Shaft (Sep 17, 2009)

Lawnmowerboy48 said:


> Tell me if I am wrong or color blind but that tree does not look dead. If bark feels dry and flaky, congratulations you have touched the bark of a spruce. What is the history of the site recent construction, logging, etc?



There is a lot of discussion in this thread as to why the tree looks green, read it all and think about it some more.

This spruce is dead, dead, dead. I am not a Professional Arborist, but I cut a lot of firewood and can easily tell dry from green. This sucker is sahara dry.

It will come down this weekend.


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## stihlman32 (Sep 19, 2009)

Measuring in acrobat with a 1" to 4.09' scale comes out to 68.86'....

Whats the prize?


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## arborist (Sep 19, 2009)

53' 10"


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## Jack_Shaft (Sep 20, 2009)

*Things went well!*

As promised, the tree in question came down yesterday. I am just getting back tonight to update this thread.

Depite a rainy night and part of the morning, Saturday presented Southerly winds and a good opportunity to knock this thing down. I climbed the tree about 35' and rigged a 5/8" rope to it, across to a tree that was in the right direction, through a pulley and then back into a safe zone where a friend of mine could pull if needed.

I notched the tree in the direction I wanted and then proceeded with the backcut, keeping a close eye on my hingewood thickness as to coax the tree away from my shed when it started to fall. I then had my disappointment of the day when I tried my plastic felling wedge (which I assumed were Stihl b/c of the orange color, I was wrong) and on the second smack it cracked clean off :censored:

I continued to cut anyway and the tree I was cutting started to fall towards the tree that is behind it and quite alive (about the same size). I continued to cut and got a greater pull from the line I had rigged and it rolled right off and onto the ground, successfully.

*Upon measuring the height of the tree, it was 76' including the stump, +/- 1ft.*



Here are some pics of the festivities. I am saving a 12' log that I will tow home in the Winter and mill some komatik runners from it.


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## Jack_Shaft (Sep 20, 2009)

The tools I used (besides PPE and rigging)


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## Jack_Shaft (Sep 20, 2009)

moss said:


> Throwing my height estimate into the pool, 74 ft., what's the prize?
> -moss



I'm saying you're the closest... the prize? Dunno


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## Jack_Shaft (Sep 20, 2009)

And the wood pile + log for milling.

This things was very white in color and was a nice, dry White Spruce. I didn't have the heart to make this thing entirely into firewood, so I saved the butt for some lumbermaking this Winter.


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## matt9923 (Sep 20, 2009)

Jack_Shaft said:


> I'm saying you're the closest... the prize? Dunno



how about $50



LOL


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## TheTreeSpyder (Sep 20, 2009)

True Blue gave best answer; a number of ways to do it, all come around to at 45deg 2 legs of a right triangle will be even. Thus, the matching measurement from eye to hand on pole, then set to 90deg(arm and pole). The resulting angle is 45deg.(from eye to top of pole) now follow that and line up top of tree to where standing(by walking forward/backward to get tree sited), and that is fall- in theory. Even looking in pail of water, between legs is trying to get a 45-45-90...

But, that is for straight, and not leaning tree, and there is some error cuz to be exacter, you'd measure to armpit, and sight at armpit. i like using a length from hand to ear to help compensate. But, all give an idea, and if get real comfy with it, can even plot how much larger tree is than yard, and pace off on ground and transfer to tree, just what lengths you can top out and then quit cutting (to fell) - all with climber on ground; so he has idea of what and where will work to maximize filling the kz / available space.

Another tactic is to look from the side of the fall, take stick and hold up and line up top of stick with top of tree, and your fist (as pivot) with the 'hinge', then 'fell' stick on rotation of wrist. Site off, and pace out to measure etc. But mostly we were concerned about space, than measuremeant.


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## kingswing (Sep 29, 2009)

i know you have done it, but here is a good way to measure. i work with Autocad a lot so with the info that you have given i did my best.


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## senechal (Oct 4, 2009)

hahahaha. Excellent work Kingswing.


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## randyg (Oct 4, 2009)

Why all the hooplah about tree height? Looks like plenty of room for a 100 footer or more in the direction you took that one.

Nice job... and thanks for the pics


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