# Climbing hitches



## TreEmergencyB (May 2, 2009)

is there any other climbing hitches i can tie with out using a split tail set up beside tauntline and blakes


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## Bearcreek (May 3, 2009)

Never heard of any. Why would you want to?


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## Slvrmple72 (May 3, 2009)

http://www.sherrilltree.com/Learning-Center/Knots


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## TreEmergencyB (May 4, 2009)

Bearcreek said:


> Never heard of any. Why would you want to?



y not?
im waiting for my eye to eye split tail to get here in the mail and just was thinking what else is out there


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## Slvrmple72 (May 4, 2009)

TreEmergencyB, did you check out the link I showed you? For single eye prussics you pretty much have 2 choices but as you can see for eye to eye prussics there are several. I started out on the blakes hitch and have recently switched over to the distel hitch when I started using eye to eye split tails. I really like it. What type of eye to eye split tail/ prussic did you get? I have used Beeline, TechnoraHRC, and Icetail.


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## TreEmergencyB (May 4, 2009)

yea thanks for the link i order the bee line kit from wespur with the micro pulley i thnk ima end up using the distel also, thought about getting one of them cool hitch climber pulleys but its gonna have to go on the list. how well does the distel work when accending a rope (hip thrust) does the pulley make it easier or is that just for returing from limb walks?


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## Slvrmple72 (May 4, 2009)

One of the things I like about the Distel is that once you get enough line below it then it will self tend. Blakes hitch will not do that and needed the pulley to help tend the slack when hip thrusting up the trunk. I do have the pulley on my distel setup but find that I do not need it as much as when on the Blakes. Oh yeah, Welcome to the site! -Kevin


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## Slvrmple72 (May 4, 2009)

Forgot to add that you can use a small loop of utility cord tied onto the biner and use it to tend slack below the distel or blakes for that matter. That hitch climber pulley is pretty nice... and $$$. My $20 pulley is just fine... for now. LOL! I have just started climbing again since my knee injury and geez have I gotten soft!


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## TheTreeSpyder (May 4, 2009)

open prussick


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## TreEmergencyB (May 4, 2009)

TheTreeSpyder said:


> open prussick



prussics are only for asending right?


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## TreEmergencyB (May 4, 2009)

Slvrmple72 said:


> One of the things I like about the Distel is that once you get enough line below it then it will self tend. Blakes hitch will not do that and needed the pulley to help tend the slack when hip thrusting up the trunk. I do have the pulley on my distel setup but find that I do not need it as much as when on the Blakes. Oh yeah, Welcome to the site! -Kevin



thanks... that sounds pretty cool to me about the distel i cant wait for it to get here


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## tree md (May 5, 2009)

TheTreeSpyder said:


> open prussick



I have used a 5 coil prussic forever. Started out with 4 coil but went to 5 coils after I put some weight on.

TrEmergencyB, check out the link in TreeSpyder's signature "I'm knot crazy". He's got tons of knots on his website. Good resource to bookmark.

I'm currently experimenting with the VT but I plan to check out the Distel and a few others. I'm playing around tying knots tonight. I've got an HRC cord and a plane jane $20 micro pulley.


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## Ghillie (May 5, 2009)

Slvrmple72 said:


> Forgot to add that you can use a small loop of utility cord tied onto the biner and use it to tend slack below the distel or blakes for that matter. That hitch climber pulley is pretty nice... and $$$. My $20 pulley is just fine... for now. LOL! I have just started climbing again since my knee injury and geez have I gotten soft!



I'm still working on switching to a distel but as far as the HC pulley goes, I have seen people have trouble with it holdingyour hitch open so it won't grab. Not sure it is worth the money IMO.


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## JeffL (May 5, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> I'm still working on switching to a distel but as far as the HC pulley goes, I have seen people have trouble with it holdingyour hitch open so it won't grab. Not sure it is worth the money IMO.



I've only had problems with it when the biner from the secured end of the line hits the top of the hitch and doesnt allow it to bite, or if I've got to use my 1/2" line with an anchor hitch, if I clip my secured end back onto the pulley, the bulk of the anchor knot hits my hitch and has it slipping constantly, so I'll usually just clip off to the ring on my bridge to clear it. 

Its just a matter of setup, and keeping an eye on your stuff! I would never recommend a newbie to climb on one of these systems, as it would be far too easy to send them ziplining straight to the ground.


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## Tree Pig (May 5, 2009)

Just to hijack the thread a little more. What length cord do you guys use for the distal and VT?


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## TreEmergencyB (May 5, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Just to hijack the thread a little more. What length cord do you guys use for the distal and VT?



i was told 30" for the distal


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## tree md (May 5, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Just to hijack the thread a little more. What length cord do you guys use for the distal and VT?



I'm using the 8mm HRC. 36" with tied eyes. Had it for around 3 years but haven't used it a whole hell of a lot. Been playing with the VT and actually have it tied on my climbing line right now. Haven't really incorporated into my work yet because of time restraints. I feel comfortable enough with it now to actually use it on a job now tho. Super responsive knot! Can't wait til it stops raining so I can actually do a job with it.


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## Ghillie (May 5, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Just to hijack the thread a little more. What length cord do you guys use for the distal and VT?



My last eye and eye splice on icetail for the distel was 32" but I was going for 28" (my math sucked that night). 30" should work fine I just wanted to see how close I could get it and still work.


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## Tree Pig (May 5, 2009)

tree md said:


> I'm using the 8mm HRC. 36" with tied eyes. Had it for around 3 years but haven't used it a whole hell of a lot. Been playing with the VT and actually have it tied on my climbing line right now. Haven't really incorporated into my work yet because of time restraints. I feel comfortable enough with it now to actually use it on a job now tho. Super responsive knot! Can't wait til it stops raining so I can actually do a job with it.



Well thats exactly what I have HRC 36 tied, I figured it would be okay for the VT but I was thinking it was a little long for the distel. From the sounds of what Ghillie is saying I am assuming correctly.

Guess its the VT time, until I buy a new one. Leaving the comfort of the blakes is like a baby kangaroo leaving its mothers pouch for the first time.


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## tree md (May 6, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Well thats exactly what I have HRC 36 tied, I figured it would be okay for the VT but I was thinking it was a little long for the distel. From the sounds of what Ghillie is saying I am assuming correctly.
> 
> Guess its the VT time, until I buy a new one. Leaving the comfort of the blakes is like a baby kangaroo leaving its mothers pouch for the first time.



It's not so much what is comfortable with me as what is just habitual. I have used the blakes and other hitches but I have been climbing with a prussic hitch (regular, not french) for so long it's like second nature for me to tie one. I can have one tied in a few seconds and be moving on. The french prussic really grabs and slides like a dream. From my limited use of it I really like it. I'm just so used to doing things they way I've done them forever it's hard to break old habits. I think you will like the VT on that prussic cord. It seems really smooth so far. Are you using a micro pulley with you setup?


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## tree md (May 6, 2009)

Oh yeah, I've seen it mentioned about the need to make sure it's well dressed before you put weight on it in the tree. I don't know about you but I do that with any hitch I use. Firming up your hitch is just common sense and self preservation if you ask me, I don't care if it's blakes or a VT I'm gonna make sure it'll hold wieght before I jump off on it.


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## mrowens33 (May 6, 2009)

*Knot website*

Here is a great animated website for knot learning.

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexclimbing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
:chainsawguy:


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## TheTreeSpyder (May 6, 2009)

No magic to prussick as ascent only vs. other hitches in DdRT. It is jsut like tautline with top 2 reversed. The Prussick is a double Cow, as a tautline could be seen as a double Clove (of sorts).

MTL- some friction hitch comparisons for how closely related many of these are in formation and thus mechanics.


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## Tree Pig (May 6, 2009)

mrowens33 said:


> Here is a great animated website for knot learning.
> 
> http://www.animatedknots.com/indexclimbing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
> :chainsawguy:



Yeah great too bad it doesnt have the VT


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## tree md (May 9, 2009)

Climbed on the VT all day today. First time I used it on a job. What a slick knot. Very smooth! Only thing is it doesn't like to grab very well when ascending. I'm working on figuring that out. Maybe it's time to go completely to SRT for ascending and switching over to the VT for just a working system. Any way, first day using it and I'm hooked. One thing though, I might have to get me a pair of Michael Jackson's for working with it. The tress cord doesn't cover as much rope as a regular split tail or traditional set up and will burn the hands if not taking care...


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## robert549tree (May 25, 2009)

*i got a question on the distel?*

i need help finding a website that tells me how to tie the not can anybody help me out?


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## Tree Pig (May 26, 2009)

robert549tree said:


> i need help finding a website that tells me how to tie the not can anybody help me out?




the below link will show you a few hitches distel is in there its not dressed but shows you how its tied, just remember to tighten it down before climbing.
http://www.mytreelessons.com/Flash/Friction%20Hitch%20Comparison.htm


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## robert549tree (May 26, 2009)

*distel*

thanks for the website. i also would like to learn the vt. i do slot of climbing with our crane and trying to find faster ways to tie in and out without useing the standard blakes or tauteline hitch. just want to unsnap pull my line thru sanap in pull out slack and ready to send dust flying, if you got any suggestions will take any you guys have.


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## tree md (May 26, 2009)

robert549tree said:


> thanks for the website. i also would like to learn the vt. i do slot of climbing with our crane and trying to find faster ways to tie in and out without useing the standard blakes or tauteline hitch. just want to unsnap pull my line thru sanap in pull out slack and ready to send dust flying, if you got any suggestions will take any you guys have.



A VT will work for what you are wanting to do but it sounds like you are just wanting to go to an open instead of a closed system. Any split tail system will allow you to do that. Still-0-Matic's link will show you links to other resources if you go to the home page here:

http://www.mytreelessons.com/index.htm


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## robert549tree (May 26, 2009)

*split tails*

well i have a split tail 1/2 and use 1/2 climbing line i have a snap with a micro pully under my hitch it is hard to get it to pull the slack out of my line. i watched some videos on youtube.com they tie some other kind of rope to the other end of the line witch has the pully hooked to it how will that help


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## md_tree_dood (May 26, 2009)

I've been using the VT a lot lately but can't seem to see how it's any better then the knut which i've been using for over a year now. The distel is a pretty good knot when you're on spikes but for lots of pruning it tightens way to much and the schwabisch is basically only good for rigging purposes. I'll take some pictures of the knut and you can give that a try.


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## robert549tree (May 26, 2009)

what do you think the best hitch for trimming is? pics would be great how long of a bee line would you use for the vt? would that be to long for the distel hitch?


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## Tree Pig (May 27, 2009)

robert549tree said:


> what do you think the best hitch for trimming is? pics would be great how long of a bee line would you use for the vt? would that be to long for the distel hitch?



distel I am using 4 wraps above and 1 under (I am on the heavy side) and I am using 26" anything longer I found just causes unnecessary slack, I use it with micro pully and it runs nice climbing and walking limbs. Although from what others are saying the VT may be even nicer.


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## robert549tree (May 27, 2009)

thanks for the info i will be in touch. will i need a longer cord for the vt or you think 26 is enough for both?


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## Tree Pig (May 27, 2009)

What I did when I was testing was I bought an HRC 36" with tied eyes and just kept retying the barrel knot until I got them to the length I wanted I like the VT at around 26" Distel is running well at 26" but I may shorten it a little more (as my cord is braking in I see a little room to tighten it up). I would start with a tied eye around 30" and see what seems good to you. I think most using the VT are around 24-26" but I am not 100% on that others will probably chime in though.


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## tree md (May 27, 2009)

Yup, I did the same with the 36" HRC. I might have aready mentioned that in this thread, sorry if I am repeating. I started with 36" and it was way too long on the VT. It is user specific though. I shortened mine about 10" to 26" or thereabouts and it worked a lot better on my old 4 D saddle. I just switched to a new saddle with a rope bridge and had to shorten it even more. I might be using 22" or so now. Not sure how long but it's a heck of a lot shorter than I started out with. Use tied eyes and you can adjust to your specific needs. After you get it figured out then you can buy sliced eyes.


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## robert549tree (May 27, 2009)

thanks guys for the help


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## robert549tree (Jun 6, 2009)

*distel and vt*

:greenchainsawo you guys use a micro pully under the distel like you would the vt? just got my eye to eye and my blaze rope and ready to try them out. Any oyher tips before i get started?


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## Tree Pig (Jun 6, 2009)

robert549tree said:


> :greenchainsawo you guys use a micro pully under the distel like you would the vt? just got my eye to eye and my blaze rope and ready to try them out. Any oyher tips before i get started?



I do, I run a micro to a biner connected directly to the saddle I am mostly hand over hand/body thrusting.


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## robert549tree (Jun 6, 2009)

not sure i understand your set up could you post a pic?


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## Tree Pig (Jun 7, 2009)

robert549tree said:


> not sure i understand your set up could you post a pic?



this is someone elses but same as mine. Runs real nice.


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## robert549tree (Jun 7, 2009)

thats how im going to set mine up as well but how do you get hand over hand body thrusting and pull the slack out of the rope? foot assender? foot lock?


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## Tree Pig (Jun 7, 2009)

robert549tree said:


> thats how im going to set mine up as well but how do you get hand over hand body thrusting and pull the slack out of the rope? foot assender? foot lock?



when climbing hand over hand I usually just climb 4 or 5 grabs then hold position with my left and pull out the slack with my right. I am thinking of adding a foot assender in hopes it will take the slack but havent done it yet. If I am doing conventional body thrust it tends itself.


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## robert549tree (Jun 7, 2009)

i was out playing with it all today and i figured out what you were talking about foot assender would work great i tryed foot lock it works great but only when your 15ft off the ground and higher the foot assender you could use rite off the ground


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## Tree Pig (Jun 7, 2009)

Awesome man, glad its working out. If you try the foot ascender let me know how it goes.


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## robert549tree (Jun 7, 2009)

i will try it at work in the am will be in touch


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## markct (Jun 7, 2009)

while we are on the subject of climbing hitches, i found it interesting that there appears to be too different ways to make the blakes hitch, the tree climbers companion shows one way to tie it, and a rock climbing book i have shows a different way in which you have a carrabiner tied into the knot and parrallel to the main line which acts as a handle, and works very well the few times i have tried it


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## Tree Pig (Jun 7, 2009)

markct said:


> while we are on the subject of climbing hitches, i found it interesting that there appears to be too different ways to make the blakes hitch, the tree climbers companion shows one way to tie it, and a rock climbing book i have shows a different way in which you have a carrabiner tied into the knot and parrallel to the main line which acts as a handle, and works very well the few times i have tried it



you sure your not talking about the bachmann


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## markct (Jun 7, 2009)

ahh yep thats the knot, its a typo in the book i guess cause they refer to it as a bachman in the paragraph, but the drawing has the caption under it of blakes knot. so does the bachman have any use in the tree climbing world, it seems to work well from what i can see but never heard of anyone using it


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## Tree Pig (Jun 7, 2009)

markct said:


> ahh yep thats the knot, its a typo in the book i guess cause they refer to it as a bachman in the paragraph, but the drawing has the caption under it of blakes knot. so does the bachman have any use in the tree climbing world, it seems to work well from what i can see but never heard of anyone using it




not sure myself but you may want to read this.

http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDevicesPage/Ascender/SemiMechPages/CarabKnotA.html


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## markct (Jun 7, 2009)

hmm strange, the book i have refers to using the carabiner as a sorta handle, which seems to work well interesting link tho thanks


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## robert549tree (Jun 8, 2009)

it looks nothing like a blakes hitch. the link you have none of those knots look very safe to climb with. has any one gave them a try?


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## markct (Jun 8, 2009)

yea i agree the bachman doesnt look very secure realy, the one time i tried it i just used it for the foot loop hitch, i used a regular prussik on the one tied to my saddle at my waist. the bachman seems to grab well, and is easy to use, but releases too easy for me to feel safe hanging off it as my main support.


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## robert549tree (Jun 8, 2009)

i dont think i will be trying that, back to the distel it worked out very well for me on our crane it saves 5-10 min between cuts very nice. the foot assender also works great with the distel for the assent to trim trees as well. this is kinda off topic but what do you guys use to tie off to the top of the tree before you come down so you dont have to spike the whole way down the log


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## Tree Pig (Jun 8, 2009)

If I am spiking I usually try and put a climb line up as my second tie in, sometimes I spike up with a climb line already set, tended by groundie. It makes passing limbs faster and safer. Then when I am done just unclip my flip and go down. 

But if I am spikes and flip only I usually attach a line to my saddle in case I need anything and then just toss it over a crotch tie it off and head down, spiking down is too much work and too slow.


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## robert549tree (Jun 9, 2009)

sometime you dont have a choice there has to be something you can tie at the top of the log to come down if you dont have any other trees around to tie into


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## BlackenedTimber (Jun 9, 2009)

If I am doing a removal (say, a pine or similar), and I have topped the tree, with nothing but the matchstick (spar...) left, I will tie onto the top of the spar with a bull line using either a clove hitch backed with two half hitches or a timber hitch(prefer the clove hitch for descending as it will not roll out and loosen like the timber hitch sometimes can), and descend on the bull line. Then I use the bull line to pull the spar over as I make my back cut. This works well for me with 1/2 stable braid, but when I rig up with 3/4 stable braid, it makes descending using a figure 8 a little more cumbersome. If there are multiple leaders, set a friction saver and glide down to the ground, retrieve your friction saver when you are done. Friction savers are awesome for positioning yourself when working on multiple leads anyway. The same can be accomplished without the friction saver, but I prefer it- less wear and tear on the climbing lines.


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## Tree Pig (Jun 9, 2009)

I have a 60" and 48" friction saver (strap and rings) you can wrap the friction saver around the spar and place a line and ride that down. I have not done it often but it has always held.


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## tree MDS (Jun 9, 2009)

*Old school*

Just cut a grove in the top of the spar (or whatever you want to call it) and rappel down on that. Done. No need for "Ditty Bags" and all that here. lol


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## BlackenedTimber (Jun 9, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I have a 60" and 48" friction saver (strap and rings) you can wrap the friction saver around the spar and place a line and ride that down. I have not done it often but it has always held.



I've done that too, and I haven't yet had a problem with it holding. On a straight vertical spar though, it tends to make my guts a little queasy at the thought that the friction saver might let go... I dont mind it so much in a crotch or on on a horizontal leader, where I know it will hold. Sometimes, if I am gonna drop the spar anyway, and I have a sling topside with me, I will run the sling around as if I was going to rig up a false crotch, and use the sling and hardware to descend. Like I said, on a removal, it's gonna come down anyway, so I usually descend on my rigging line. It's all about what your comfortable with. Falling to the ground sucks. I know, I have done it once, in my younger, less experienced years. A 35 foot free-fall is no good for the bones.

:greenchainsaw:


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## Bearcreek (Jun 9, 2009)

One way to do it is to set the pull line in the tree and then have the groundies rig up the blocks to put tension on the rope. Then clip on with a biner and jump off. Obviously you can't do that every time but its fun when you can.


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## moss (Jun 9, 2009)

markct said:


> ahh yep thats the knot, its a typo in the book i guess cause they refer to it as a bachman in the paragraph, but the drawing has the caption under it of blakes knot. so does the bachman have any use in the tree climbing world, it seems to work well from what i can see but never heard of anyone using it



Bachman is intended for SRT as a substitute for a mechanical ascender, not a DRT hitch.
-moss


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## robert549tree (Jun 9, 2009)

never used a figure 8 before not sure how they work. when tieing in to your pull line could you use your 6 loop prussic and come down that way? other climbers i work with are all old school so i have to teach my self all the new school techs they say its just more room for error


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## tree md (Jun 9, 2009)

robert549tree said:


> never used a figure 8 before not sure how they work. when tieing in to your pull line could you use your 6 loop prussic and come down that way? other climbers i work with are all old school so i have to teach my self all the new school techs *they say its just more room for error*



There's a lot of wisdom in that statement and I was taught by the same type of people. However, some of the new school techniques are just so much more efficient and make the job go faster and easier. I'd encourage you to continue to explore. Just be safe and go low and slow. A figure 8 has been around forever and is a great piece of equipment to carry in the tree with you. If you ever have to descend quickly for emergency reasons it is about the fastest way to hook up and descend. Just clip it to your D's with a biner, loop a bite through it and go.

I am also studying a lot of new school stuff now too. I just got the book "On Rope" yesterday in the mail and just got a chance to start reading a little of it today. So far it seems like a great resource for new school climbing and knots. Might want to check it out.


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## robert549tree (Jun 9, 2009)

i will def check out the book do you know of any web sites that show what the fig 8 looks like with the rope running thru it? just learned the distel and think its great


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## tree md (Jun 9, 2009)

robert549tree said:


> i will def check out the book do you know of any web sites that show what the fig 8 looks like with the rope running thru it? just learned the distel and think its great



Sorry, not offhand. Sherrill or Wespur may have a pic on their website of it. they are both site sponsors and you can click their links at the top of the page. I know there is a pic in either one of both of their catalogs. Maybe someone else can chime in with more resources here.


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## Tree Pig (Jun 9, 2009)




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## robert549tree (Jun 10, 2009)

what about the other style fig 8 the one that has the little wings?


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## Tree Pig (Jun 10, 2009)




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## canopyboy (Jun 10, 2009)

Stihl-O, Do you have a pic for everything?


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## SINGLE-JACK (Jun 10, 2009)

*Rescue 8*

Notice the ropes all run the same on all this type of descender. The "wings" are simply a way to make the 8 a little more "idiot proof" by reducing the risk of the rope slipping into a girth hitch (larks head, cow hitch, ring hitch). If you're paying attention (highly recommended) the "old fashioned" 8 is fine AND it does not have the "wings" to get hung-up on things. 




*RESCUE 8*




*ESCAPE 8*


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## Tree Pig (Jun 10, 2009)

canopyboy said:


> Stihl-O, Do you have a pic for everything?








google is my friend. I already finished the internet once I am just going back through a second time


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## canopyboy (Jun 10, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I already finished the internet once I am just going back through a second time



LMAO....


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## canopyboy (Jun 10, 2009)

Dang. That was post #100. I was hoping to use #100 to say something profound and meaningful.


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## robert549tree (Jun 10, 2009)

thanks guys


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## robert549tree (Jun 10, 2009)

what other tricks of the trade you guys got up your sleeves?


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## Tree Pig (Jun 10, 2009)

want to see me juggle chainsaws


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## robert549tree (Jun 10, 2009)

that would be nice!


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## Tree Pig (Jun 10, 2009)




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## robert549tree (Jun 11, 2009)

i guess the net has a little bit of everything! I got to use the fig 8 today and it works alot better then spiking the whole way down and a whole lot faster


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## Tree Pig (Jun 11, 2009)

robert549tree said:


> i guess the net has a little bit of everything! I got to use the fig 8 today and it works alot better then spiking the whole way down and a whole lot faster



oh hell yeah. Spiking down sucks


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