# WINCH or PULLER?



## sawhoss (Aug 23, 2012)

We are going to be cutting a storm damaged hardwood tract that is full of snapped tops and leaners. The biggest challenge will be it's all hand work. Owner wants "LOW IMPACT", nothing larger than ATV and TRAILER. 90% of the logs and all tops will be bucked into firewood in the woods. We will need some type of winch or puller for certain situations. I do have a Masdaam Power Puller, but thinking about either rigging up a 4 ton utv winch and battery, or getting a 3 ton ratchet puller with amsteel blue from Bailey's. Just looking for some ideas and suggestions. As always Thank You in advance!


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## Customcuts (Aug 23, 2012)

*ATV Winch*

Perhaps you can use a redirect pulley anchored to a tree then run the pull line from target hung up limb to redirect then back to ATV winch while the ATV is anchored to another tree.. the pulley could increase the pulling power and would be bury easy to install with just a rigging sling. U could also get some 1/2 inch true blue to do the job.. not too expensive and pretty strong stuff.. I do believe that if you do use the setup the way I'm talking about it will work very well.. just be sure and have a couple different throwbags and throwlines incase 1 gets stuck... Best of luck. Hope it goes well for you..


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## imagineero (Aug 23, 2012)

Sounds like a pain in the ass, hope you put enough money on it to justify the time, or are working for a good hourly rate. 

More important than the source of your pull, is your lead angle. The closer to 90 degrees, the better. At 90 degrees, 100% of the effort is pulling sideways. As you get close to 0 degrees, the effort approaches 0%. Use slope to your advantage where available (always pull form the up side) and avoid at all costs pulling form the low side. You can do some tricky pulling situations if you have enough ropes and rigging - you can set redirects high in other trees lower down and then pull form the up side. But it sounds like you're probably not geared up for this. 

Keep your lead angle as close to sideways as possible (ie - get far far away) and even a small pulling source like an ATV or a human can make a significant difference. I'm Ass-you-ming you have some way of setting your high line like a big shot and throw lines, or can spike. While I'm assuming I'll take it a step further and guess that you have also plenty of wedges and know how to fall. Might be worth getting a climber in for the day. Might cost less than a winch and give you a better result.

If you're pulling uphill and have a big enough winch at the top of the hill (usually hydraulic on a big truck) then you can set a pseudo highline by rigging a rope to the top of the tallest tree you can find near your lift, then taking the line down to your lift target. Hook your whinch line with a pulley onto the rope, and the lead angle will bisect the two, giving you free lift and keeping the logs from snagging on the way up. You get a mechanical disadvantage of 1:2, but it usually works out to be worthwhile. Be sure the highline tree is stout, or backbrace it. Of course, if you have a tall tree at the top of the hill you can rig a better high line, but i find the former situation occurs more often than the latter in residential scenarios.

Shaun


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## northmanlogging (Aug 23, 2012)

it depends on what your trying to do? are ya pulling logs or pulling trees? If your just pulling over a standing tree than a come-along with a 5/8-3/4" line 2/3 or so up the tree is more than enough in most situations, just don't be trying to pull a heavy leaner over backwards with it... If your yarding logs as in pulling down trees to a convenient place, than a winch is a much better option. Either way sounds like a whole lot of unpleasant work for very little gain. Watch those dead tops and hanging branches, there is a reason they call them widow makers.


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## Wilson_tree (Aug 23, 2012)

I did a small job like this two winters ago. I had to bunch logs on the existing ATV trails and then skid them out. I used a small Kubota that fit on the ATV trails for the skidding. For bunching, I used a gas powered winch with a few different rope lengths. I also had a skid cone to help big logs move easier. It was slow, but I was getting paid for the effort, so it didn't matter. The gas powered winch was a capstan mounted on a 50cc chainsaw powerhead. It was easy to move around and set up, it had variable rope length, and no battery to mess with. I could load it in the bucket of the tractor and put it exactly were I needed it in a few seconds. The rope was easy to drag out to a log and pull in slack before starting the winch. Let me know if you have more specific questions. Sorry I don't have a picture of the actual winch. I got it from Bailey's a few years ago. Here's a pic of bunched logs and the tractor: View attachment 249788


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## 2dogs (Aug 23, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> Perhaps you can use a redirect pulley anchored to a tree then run the pull line from target hung up limb to redirect then back to ATV winch while the ATV is anchored to another tree.. the pulley could increase the pulling power and would be bury easy to install with just a rigging sling. U could also get some 1/2 inch true blue to do the job.. not too expensive and pretty strong stuff.. I do believe that if you do use the setup the way I'm talking about it will work very well.. just be sure and have a couple different throwbags and throwlines incase 1 gets stuck... Best of luck. Hope it goes well for you..



I think you lost me here. Buy if not then a redirect pulley does not increase your pulling power, it just changes the direction of the pull. You could have several redirects and there is still no mechanical advantage (except on the anchor point).


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## sawhoss (Aug 25, 2012)

Thanks for the info and suggestions. We would be using the winch or puller to hopefully pull downed logs out of the brush for bucking, or pulling snagged tops down rather than trying to cut them out of other trees.


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## northmanlogging (Aug 25, 2012)

well than ya got a few options... There is the "lewis winch" chainsaw winch, Horrorable frieght winches of varius strength a guy could add to the 4 wheeler with an extra battery(for extra sized wenches...), or the capstan style gas powered winches lots of options just how much ya wanna spend


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## redprospector (Aug 25, 2012)

Sounds to me like a winch & a power pull would both come in pretty handy on a job like that.

Andy


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## pdqdl (Aug 26, 2012)

The lewis winch really isn't practical for that kind of work. It has no reverse, and you need to work pretty smart and use a lot of tricks to not get a load hung up with it that you cannot release from. Furthermore, it is limited to using no more line than can fit on the spool.

Like wilson_tree suggested, consider a capstan rope winch from Baileys: Bailey's - Simpson Capstan Rope Winch

They are quite reliable, they deliver about 1000lbs of line pull, and they don't require that you feed the rope back out to release the load if it binds up. You can use any length of rope, so a 300' pull is not unreasonable. They are not as strong nor reliable as some ATV winches, but you needn't worry about running the batteries down and they won't be tearing up the ground driving all over the place for each winch pull. 

If it is a critical pull, like making sure a tree falls the right direction, the Maasdam rope winch is stronger and safer, but it isn't 1/50th as fast dragging a log up out of a hole.

Don't plan on using amsteel rope with a capstan winch: it is too slick.


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