# Lowering devices heavy/light duty



## Customcuts (May 22, 2012)

I have been using a couple of devices that I designed and built myself and they have worked great, I am however interested to see what everyone else is using. I know that most guys where I'm @ still take wraps around the tree and don't even use blocks!:taped: most of those guys have been doing "tree work" for 10+yrs and still don't use the proper rigging equipment. It drives me crazy to see these fools out here in my neck of the woods! Anyways I'm just curious to hear others experience's with L.D.'s. I have a heavy duty one that I can run 2 lines thru simultaneously and a light duty One that I use for single line duties. I'm about to make another one that is for heavy duty single line applications. All secure to tree with heavy duty ratchet straps. :msp_sneaky: any advise/ feedback is greatly appreciated!


Big Wood chucked installed! - YouTube


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## sgreanbeans (May 22, 2012)

Porta wraps, I have a big one and the mini. Would like to get a GCRS, but I wont need one soon! But I still would like one.


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## tomtrees58 (May 22, 2012)

have 2 of don:s for the last 20 years work good


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## Customcuts (May 22, 2012)

tomtrees58 said:


> have 2 of don:s for the last 20 years work good



Looks good, are u able to tie off the load if need be with that device? I like the way that one secures to tree and utilizes a kerf cut to keep it from riding up on heavy loads. Are those available for purchase?


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## Garden Of Eden (May 22, 2012)

I also use a custom lowering device. It's built using 2 schedule 40 steel 3 inch tubes. I can run 2 lines simultaneous, and the ability to tie off the lines. I like mine, but wouldn't be adverse to seeing others and what they use.

Jeff


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## lostcoastland (May 22, 2012)

natural crotching is only good for big stuff with enough weight to beat the friction, even then. i have had all kinds of problems, myself and others on small stuff not coming down, not weighing enough broke my finger when a peice swung straight back at me too much friction, F#&** natural crotches..really like your device


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## Tree Pig (May 22, 2012)

I have porta's and blocks but Ill tell you the truth there is nothing wrong with natural crotching and taking a wrap around a trunk. In some ways wrap around the tree can be better because you can adjust the amount of friction while lowering by just walking around the tree. I have used parta wrap and no block, block and no porta. It all depends on the situation and tree we are working with. Dont get caught in a rut of thinking you need all that gear every tree you do, because you will be limiting yourself.


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## Pelorus (May 22, 2012)

Did some tree work years ago in Niagara Falls for a cheap ole bugger with a cottage up here. Forgot the porta wrap at home, and ended up using the round pipe bumper on his old truck as a LD which worked just as well.
It was drizzly and miserable, but typical of every other visit I've ever made to that tourist trap that hasn't been some kinda disapointment.


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## lostcoastland (May 22, 2012)

*natural crotching*

you are leaving it up to chance its going to run with a natural crotch. period. hanging the rope over a nub or crossing the rope over its self so it doesnt fly of, holding it with your handwhile your cutting. all unsafe , unpredictable, work practices that are a leading causes of accidents, just the other day i'm running the rope it hangs up because of the friction, the butt knocks the climber out of the tree, 6 weeks ago i go to lower a super tricky piece over pool equipment , completely dead alder no tie in point, power pruning it from afar the log swings back into me breaks my finger, done 6 weeks out, no workers comp, tons of drama, ect. ground guy cant do anything, just taking a half wrap through a nice open crotch no biggie, like i said I'll limit myself to being safe and working, some practices are just old school. like how much sense does it make to tie a hitch on the same peice of rope and have to completly let go and retie it everytime you want to move...I will however use a natural crotch when i dont have to climb like throwline a bigger tree to remove a small tree next to a house, but NEVER NEVER again when it HAS to run to be safe..you could also pull your block rigging up on a line through the crotch and retrieve it sounds even better..!


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## Customcuts (May 22, 2012)

Tree Pig said:


> I have porta's and blocks but Ill tell you the truth there is nothing wrong with natural crotching and taking a wrap around a trunk. In some ways wrap around the tree can be better because you can adjust the amount of friction while lowering by just walking around the tree. I have used parta wrap and no block, block and no porta. It all depends on the situation and tree we are working with. Dont get caught in a rut of thinking you need all that gear every tree you do, because you will be limiting yourself.


 I agree with u there, I meant that they dont ever use lowering device or blocks, I myself will use natural crotch and take wraps around a small 3" limb that I cut to use that for friction. Like u said it all depends on the situation. But these guys use their active climbing line for heavy rigging then back for climbing. It's like they don't care enough to educate themselves on New practices and techniques. Anyways I'm not totally against natural crotch or wrapping a limb for friction while up in the tree, depending on the situation. Just not everytime.


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## Customcuts (May 22, 2012)

Garden Of Eden said:


> I also use a custom lowering device. It's built using 2 schedule 40 steel 3 inch tubes. I can run 2 lines simultaneous, and the ability to tie off the lines. I like mine, but wouldn't be adverse to seeing others and what they use.
> 
> Jeff



Got pics ?


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## lostcoastland (May 22, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> I agree with u there, I meant that they dont ever use lowering device or blocks, I myself will use natural crotch and take wraps around a small 3" limb that I cut to use that for friction. Like u said it all depends on the situation. But these guys use their active climbing line for heavy rigging then back for climbing. It's like they don't care enough to educate themselves on New practices and techniques. Anyways I'm not totally against natural crotch or wrapping a limb for friction while up in the tree, depending on the situation. Just not everytime.



i'm kinda young so i'm trying to learn and be able to establish the way i do things, ive become a ctsp and am sitting here pissed cuz i havent worked in 6 weeks, safety record on a bad start.lol....one of the first things i thought when i was at home was well i guess i'll start a accident log, for safety training .of course. when i look back it was totally my fault obviously, i think natural crotching should be banned. if you do it on little stuff then its your judgement on "what is little stuff" if its big enough to need a rope its probably big enough to hurt you . your trying to get away with whats easy..do without a tool thats going to help you out for what. to be old school and simple and "use the tree" use a nice block, keep your ropes new.. i feel like its about 50/50 with companies that actually have ground guys who can run a rope, most are hired brush draggers some very good at that but have no training, they usually get it on a big top thats heavy and have a wrap, but are too lazy to unwrap or pull out some rope around the host tree to handle mid size peices thus locking up on them which can take out a climber.. Lowering devices standardize friction for tree removal and preserve trees being pruned as long as they are not chainsaw cut in  Saves your ropes, wont lock up, Now its easy and safe , no more pulling rope around tree trunks all day in a big tangle, just hook the loop in to a steel rescue 8, a porta wrap, hobbs, grcs, the stein..and your good.. god bless the blocks and LD's! lets see some more i'm all about it, like i said about natural crotching..get out here with that sh***, this is a mechanical rigging thread

* edit- most small outfits in the country or whatever have a good team thing going on but big companys and tiny companies that are super busy or super slow usually don't have good guys on the ropes, companies that go through guys ya know, i have to train people on the job that dont speak a word of english its ghastly you gotta survive the incompetance


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## Garden Of Eden (May 22, 2012)

lostcoastland said:


> i'm kinda young so i'm trying to learn and be able to establish the way i do things, ive become a ctsp and am sitting here pissed cuz i havent worked in 6 weeks, safety record on a bad start.lol....one of the first things i thought when i was at home was well i guess i'll start a accident log, for safety training .of course. when i look back it was totally my fault obviously, i think natural crotching should be banned. if you do it on little stuff then its your judgement on "what is little stuff" if its big enough to need a rope its probably big enough to hurt you . your trying to get away with whats easy..do without a tool thats going to help you out for what. to be old school and simple and "use the tree" use a nice block, keep your ropes new.. i feel like its about 50/50 with companies that actually have ground guys who can run a rope, most are hired brush draggers some very good at that but have no training, they usually get it on a big top thats heavy and have a wrap, but are too lazy to unwrap or pull out some rope around the host tree to handle mid size peices thus locking up on them which can take out a climber.. Lowering devices standardize friction for tree removal and preserve trees being pruned as long as they are not chainsaw cut in  Saves your ropes, wont lock up, Now its easy and safe , no more pulling rope around tree trunks all day in a big tangle, just hook the loop in to a steel rescue 8, a porta wrap, hobbs, grcs, the stein..and your good.. god bless the blocks and LD's! lets see some more i'm all about it, like i said about natural crotching..get out here with that sh***, this is a mechanical rigging thread



If natural crotching were banned, I'd be out of a job. What really would be the problem in running a good rope through a natural crotch? People do it with climbing ropes in Ddrt. I figure if you cant do it don't, but don't condemn other people for doing it.

Pics coming on the device.

Jeff


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## Garden Of Eden (May 22, 2012)

I'm posting the pics, just dont steal my design. I've been using this since 2004, as it sits. I don't mind ideas, but carbon copies, drive me crazy. lolView attachment 239081


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## Customcuts (May 22, 2012)

lostcoastland said:


> i'm kinda young so i'm trying to learn and be able to establish the way i do things, ive become a ctsp and am sitting here pissed cuz i havent worked in 6 weeks, safety record on a bad start.lol....one of the first things i thought when i was at home was well i guess i'll start a accident log, for safety training .of course. when i look back it was totally my fault obviously, i think natural crotching should be banned. if you do it on little stuff then its your judgement on "what is little stuff" if its big enough to need a rope its probably big enough to hurt you . your trying to get away with whats easy..do without a tool thats going to help you out for what. to be old school and simple and "use the tree" use a nice block, keep your ropes new.. i feel like its about 50/50 with companies that actually have ground guys w
> ho can run a rope, most are hired brush draggers some very good at that but have no training, they usually get it on a big top thats heavy and have a wrap, but are too lazy to unwrap or pull out some rope around the host tree to handle mid size peices thus locking up on them which can take out a climber.. Lowering devices standardize friction for tree removal and preserve trees being pruned as long as they are not chainsaw cut in  Saves your ropes, wont lock up, Now its easy and safe , no more pulling rope around tree trunks all day in a big tangle, just hook the loop in to a steel rescue 8, a porta wrap, hobbs, grcs, the stein..and your good.. god bless the blocks and LD's! lets see some more i'm all about it, like i said about natural crotching..get out here with that sh***, this is a mechanical rigging thread



Hey man I had to use natural crotch the other day while removing limbs from over a shed. I was cutting limbs that were about 2" with handsaw then letting them hang while groundie pulled them out with a hook. Really wasn't a need to set my 5/8ths block on 3" diameter wood. We didn't even use wraps or a friction device because the limbs were so light. Basically used it to get limbs down without scraping the roof on the shed. It worked out great. Trust me tho, I'm all about lowering devices and blocks. But like we said certain situations require certain rigging setups. You know how it is out there man.


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## Customcuts (May 22, 2012)

*nice*



Garden Of Eden said:


> I'm posting the pics, just dont steal my design. I've been using this since 2004, as it sits. I don't mind ideas, but carbon copies, drive me crazy. lolView attachment 239081



How does it mount to tree? And is that all tig'ed or mig? I worked as a metal fabricator for 7 yrs. So I can appreciate good metal work when I see it. Good job man


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## Garden Of Eden (May 22, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> How does it mount to tree? And is that all tig'ed or mig? I worked as a metal fabricator for 7 yrs. So I can appreciate good metal work when I see it. Good job man



Tig'ed. The guy that did it for me is a retired nuclear reactor welder. I normally would have done it, but I didn't have the equipment at the time.

Thanks, the tubes fit at 90 degrees to the tree, bollards out, ratchet straps around tree from the center connecting square stock.

Jeff


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## lostcoastland (May 22, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> Hey man I had to use natural crotch the other day while removing limbs from over a shed. I was cutting limbs that were about 2" with handsaw then letting them hang while groundie pulled them out with a hook. Really wasn't a need to set my 5/8ths block on 3" diameter wood. We didn't even use wraps or a friction device because the limbs were so light. Basically used it to get limbs down without scraping the roof on the shed. It worked out great. Trust me tho, I'm all about lowering devices and blocks. But like we said certain situations require certain rigging setups. You know how it is out there man.



lol..well ya, i said enough. i'm not giving an inch on it, its my new thing, call me blockhead if you want


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## Garden Of Eden (May 22, 2012)

It's all good, I know a couple guys that swear by the 'rules.' However, if not for pushing the limits, i fear we would never have any cool new stuff. Besides, I trust a natural crotch I can visually inspect, before I trust a piece of metal that could have defects, air bubbles, or God knows what else. Natural crotching removes a lot of links in the system, links removed = less chance for failure.

Just my thoughts, I do use blocks all the time though.

Jeff


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## tomtrees58 (May 22, 2012)

Custom Cuts said:


> Looks good, are u able to tie off the load if need be with that device? I like the way that one secures to tree and utilizes a kerf cut to keep it from riding up on heavy loads. Are those available for purchase?


yes and here one i did for tying off


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## tomtrees58 (May 22, 2012)

you put the winch bar in the pipe


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## tomtrees58 (May 22, 2012)

they run about$ 1900.00 sierra moreno mercantile or baileys


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## lostcoastland (May 22, 2012)

we used a homeowners sling one day that was supposedly a helicopter strap it had some knots in it, it broke while tip tied to a whole sucker tree coming off a redwood went for a ride right up to the base of the tree porta wrap flying around midline. it was a lesson on having the right stuff, all brand new as possible, inspected daily. i dont have good rigging gear right now and have been getting F-ed up even another guy got hurt because of the friction is so great on nat crotch it doesnt allow the peice to run away from the climber,..mostly mid size peices a bit too big to do by hand but not heavy enought to run against perhaps a tight crotch or rough barked host tree. i'm not worried about strenth just friction. in socal we do these stupid little jobs all the time and people are not geared up to even rope stuff, its like oh we have to rope it down i'll just cut it up small because no one knows how to run a rope and i'm going to get F-ed up by the day laborer groundie. when i was working in Albany new york it was great i'd climb cracked in half maples after a hard rain lowering everything, we would rope everything just for fun we were so good," natural crotching 90% of the time.. its hard to find guys in socal tree industry that speak english to even teach them to run a rope..i prolly need to quit working for these small company's but the bigger companies are the same, i'm working on spanish and trying to figure out what i can do to work safe, i'm hoping for a good gig soon. New York was the best so far, people appreciate tree guys. here its thousands of ballsy gardners doing tree work with day laborer climbers, tree trimming / hauling junk removal trucks everywhere with one poulan pro chainsaw and a f150, i see mexican women on the side of the road cutting up logs with a handsaw in a dress..i guess when you make 75 dollars a day and dont speak english you dont really care about learningto run a rope or be safe. i guess the thing i like most about these devices is that they take a bit of the unknown out of the equation. if i could only figure out to tie one of those auto belay rock climbing things where you let go it just lets you down slow to a tree..even with all of those devices you have to use it and know how to run a damn rope, nothing is idiot proof... jeez i got some issues....










;


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## Customcuts (May 22, 2012)

lostcoastland said:


> lol..well ya, i said enough. i'm not giving an inch on it, its my new thing, call me blockhead if you want



To each his own man thanks for the reply


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## Garden Of Eden (May 22, 2012)

lostcoastland said:


> we used a homeowners sling one day that was supposedly a helicopter strap it had some knots in it, it broke while tip tied to a whole sucker tree coming off a redwood went for a ride right up to the base of the tree porta wrap flying around midline. it was a lesson on having the right stuff, all brand new as possible, inspected daily. i dont have good rigging gear right now and have been getting F-ed up even another guy got hurt because of the friction is so great on nat crotch it doesnt allow the peice to run away from the climber,..mostly mid size peices a bit too big to do by hand but not heavy enought to run against perhaps a tight crotch or rough barked host tree. i'm not worried about strenth just friction. in socal we do these stupid little jobs all the time and people are not geared up to even rope stuff, its like oh we have to rope it down i'll just cut it up small because no one knows how to run a rope and i'm going to get F-ed up by the day laborer groundie. when i was working in Albany new york it was great i'd climb cracked in half maples after a hard rain lowering everything, we would rope everything just for fun we were so good," natural crotching 90% of the time.. its hard to find guys in socal tree industry that speak english to even teach them to run a rope..i prolly need to quit working for these small company's but the bigger companies are the same, i'm working on spanish and trying to figure out what i can do to work safe, i'm hoping for a good gig soon. New York was the best so far, people appreciate tree guys. here its thousands of ballsy gardners doing tree work with day laborer climbers, tree trimming / hauling junk removal trucks everywhere with one poulan pro chainsaw and a f150, i see mexican women on the side of t he road cutting up logs with a handsaw in a dress..i guess when you make 75 dollars a day and dont speak english you dont really care about learningto run a rope or be safe. i guess the thing i like most about these devices is that they take a bit of the unknown out of the equation. if i could only figure out to tie one of those auto belay rock climbing things where you let go it just lets you down slow to a tree..even with all of those devices you have to use it and know how to run a damn rope, nothing is idiot proof... jeez i got some issues....
> 
> ;



No English and papers, no work for me. I can't afford to get hurt. Let alone tied up in some crazyness with illegals. Is what it is. Benefits of only being an employee to my wife I guess.

Jeff


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## Pelorus (May 22, 2012)

Garden Of Eden said:


> I'm posting the pics, just dont steal my design. I've been using this since 2004, as it sits. I don't mind ideas, but carbon copies, drive me crazy. lolView attachment 239081




Are you anchoring your double porty to the tree using a shackle or biner attached to a sling? Attaching the sling directly to your device looks like the gussets might be unfriendly, or you might experience lowering rope vs sling contact.


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## Customcuts (May 22, 2012)

tomtrees58 said:


> yes and here one i did for tying off



You make that yourself? Does the aluminum bollard hook to that or is that a separate device?


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## Garden Of Eden (May 22, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> Are you anchoring your double porty to the tree using a shackle or biner attached to a sling? Attaching the sling directly to your device looks like the gussets might be unfriendly, or you might experience lowering rope vs sling contact.



Shackles on slings, one each side, there are two square stock spacers to keep rope from touching sling.


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## tomtrees58 (May 22, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> You make that yourself? Does the aluminum bollard hook to that or is that a separate device?


yes i made it and no


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## Garden Of Eden (May 22, 2012)

Sweet device Tom. BTW, why did I think you were in Michigan?


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## tomtrees58 (May 22, 2012)

Garden Of Eden said:


> Sweet device Tom. BTW, why did I think you were in Michigan?


thanks but long island ny


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## Garden Of Eden (May 22, 2012)

tomtrees58 said:


> thanks but long island ny



Nice picture. I wasn't questioning you sir. I was just curious. I swore I thought you were from Michigan. Lol. 

Hope everything is going good out there. 

God bless

Jeff


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## Customcuts (May 22, 2012)

*great looking device*



tomtrees58 said:


> yes i made it and no


Great looking device Tom. It looks simple to use and very secure. Does it have a fairlead to keep the wraps in order? When I tested mine the first time on a test log that was hoisted up with a jeep the wraps started rolling over themselves. So I added fairleads out of 9/16ths hardened steel rod. That seemed to fix that problem...:msp_thumbup: It's nice to see guys that actually can make their own equipment and turn drawings to real life.
keep up the good work.


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