# Leaning tree tip



## Widmere

Is there a preferred method of cutting through the but of a tree that has partially blown over so the top is leaning on a neighbouring tree. There are no buildings nearby so I was going to under cut the but then tie a chain round the trunk and pull it out with a tractor. 

Appreciate your help


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## rbtree

Notch it behind the lean, so that, when you pull, the notch will close somewhat.


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## PUclimber

Well I would hire someone who knows what the hell they're doing if it's large diameter since you sound like a homeowner trying to save money.


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## Widmere

*Thanks*

Thanks Pu Climber - I would very much appreciate a quote for coming over to Buckinghamshire England and showing me the hell how to do it. The advice of putting a notch in the back of the trunk seems like great advice. When I've cut the but off I'll select which one of three tractors I'll use to drag it out of my woodland back to my farm house which featured in the Doomsday book.

Widmere


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## treevet

PUclimber said:


> Well I would hire someone who knows what the hell they're doing if it's large diameter since you sound like a homeowner trying to save money.


Sage advice, this. This is a recipe for an emergency room visit or worse. Even the pros can be at risk in this scenario. Quite often tree that tree it is stuck in will have to be climbed to detach and make site safe.


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## sawsong

sound's like dude is a farmer

i grew up on a farm, in fact still live and work on my father's farm

it's the agricultural way, knackered tree, nothing to damage, big tractor, big chain, big pull, big mess, big fun, job done

nothing wrong with that


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## treevet

sawsong said:


> sound's like dude is a farmer
> 
> i grew up on a farm, in fact still live and work on my father's farm
> 
> it's the agricultural way, knackered tree, nothing to damage, big tractor, big chain, big pull, big mess, big fun, job done
> 
> nothing wrong with that


Worse case scenerio. 3 ft dia tree , bottom cuts it caves sideways and pins him. Or tree won t yank , too heavy for tractor. Bottomcuts again and again then it s straight up and releases and falls on Mr. Widmere. No fun again. I hear you but his pride prob wouldn t let him ask such a basic question if he knew what he was doing and felt comfortable w it.


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## pipou

*i wouldnt*

are you aware of the massive amounts of kinetic energy in trees that have fallen over. if the tree is slightly bowed it could have alot of potential energy being released when it is finally cut. 
i would hire a pro to do that. it may be better than damaging your tractor or yourself.


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## tawilson

Sheesh, you guys sound like a bunch of scared women. I guess it's good you know your limitations. Now Widmere, check out this thread. I did it and I ain't dead.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=29929


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## tawilson

Ok, that was a little harsh and rude. I apologize. I had a bad day. But the guy asked for advice on taking a tree down, he didn't ask whether he should attempt it or not.


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## Bermie

Find someone in your area who has their NPTC CS32 ticket, they will know what to do! If you have never done this before, best to get someone who has, too many things can go badly wrong.
This should be dealt with first as a leaning tree...face cut, bore cut, then release from the back.
It will get hung up, so then you take it out like a hung up, sever the hinge, leaving 25% on the side it might roll towards to act as a pivot. If the weight is right it will roll out on its own, if not, then either winch it out or roll it out using a turning strap to get it on the ground.
BE CAREFUL cutting the hinge, Stay OUT of the 'triangle of death' if you winch using a redirect, and STAY CLEAR of the butt, give yourself plenty of room, always be thinking, 'what will happen if this goes wrong?'


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## jmack

Widmere said:


> Is there a preferred method of cutting through the but of a tree that has partially blown over so the top is leaning on a neighbouring tree. There are no buildings nearby so I was going to under cut the but then tie a chain round the trunk and pull it out with a tractor.
> 
> Appreciate your help


pics? or diagrams?


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## Blinky

If it's recently windthrown and leaning pretty far, you need some professional help, the internal stresses could be massive and figuring them out is iffy. When it fell into the other tree it probably tried to rotate. If it's still on the stump, it's almost certainly stressed and if you just undercut with a top notch it's possible for the butt to twist or whip into you... it would be like getting hit by a car. 

If it's not recent, a couple of years or so old, the stresses will be mostly relieved and you can top notch/undercut... but that probably won't free it from the tree it's hung up in unless it's just barely hung... which means it may be necessary to climb and cut it out from above... that's definitely work for a professional arborist. Weird things can... will happen, like the hung tree rotating as it's being cut out; pieces can break before they're back cut and whack the climber.

You could double hinge it, but if it's really stressed, that could get unpredictable. I've never used the Texas B_tch cut but it seems a good way to deal with a lean that's close to vertical

Without being there it's impossible to tell you what to do. The most important thing in dealing with windthrow is predicting the stresses and relieving them SLOWLY, staying in control. Sometimes you have to just shave off a wee bit at a time and watch how the tree reacts. Unrelieved stresses are serious business.


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## treeseer

Blinky said:


> Unrelieved stresses are serious business.


 Reminds me of the time I cut a bent-over ash tree. Smashed ribs, ruptured spleen, 11 days in intensive care, boatloads of fun you betcha!:jawdrop:


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## tawilson

treeseer said:


> Reminds me of the time I cut a bent-over ash tree. Smashed ribs, ruptured spleen, 11 days in intensive care, boatloads of fun you betcha!:jawdrop:


I'm surprised none your wiseazz buddies chirped in with "see, you should have hired a professional.":hmm3grin2orange:


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## Blinky

tawilson said:


> I'm surprised none your wiseazz buddies chirped in with "see, you should have hired a professional.":hmm3grin2orange:



I'm still trying to think of something wiseazz to say about 'bent over', 'getting your ash kicked' and stuff like that... I'm moving a little slow today though.


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## Widmere

Crikey - thanks for all the replies - this really is a wondeful site - On reflection I think I will leave the chainsaw in the tractor and put a wire rope as high as I can on the trunk and pull the whole tree sideways. The lean is 45 degrees and the root ball is well exposed. Thanks once again for all your words of wisdom. If this method doesn't work I'll get a pro in.


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## MonkeyDo

*Could get back with a big pop.*

The potential for the tree having extreme tension and compression is almost a gaurentee. A professional would know how to handle it; I'm not going to give you info that might convince you to get yourself in trouble. Have you thought about another avenue ... you ever have use for explosive on your farm? Just a thought; think outside the box. A chainsaw isn't the only way to take care of this stuation. 
Best case scenario is it doesn't kill you and comes out of the tree it's hung in. Realistic scenario, when you've almost finish the backcut the tree jumps in a big way, stays hung. I've had to picket fence quite a few trees, but it is not the ideal situation.
Get a friend with some experience to take a look, or post some pic.s so we can stop talking about some of the IFs.


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## 00chris85

so how did it end it's been a week since your last report??
i was just curious..
thanks


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## rbtree

Just revisiting this thread. Since I'm an arborist, don't have real heavy equipment available on every job (cranes when needed), we usually do a leaning tree differently. We climb the tree its lodged in, or another nearby tree, or set ropes remotely. But when the room is available and a tractor, there's little to go wrong if you size up the situation and make careful cuts. 

My earlier response was wrong. If the plan is to pull the tree off the stump, so it comes out of the tree it's hung in, then you need to notch the underside of the tree. Be careful, don't go too deep. Be aware of the downward forces in play. Then, apply a bit of tension with the tractor and make a backcut. Leave a slightly larger than normal hinge, or at least stop when the face either starts to open or close. Then pull it off the stump.

Your sideways pull idea might work as well, but only if it is only barely lodged in the other tree.


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## rbtree

Just revisiting this thread. Since I'm an arborist, don't have real heavy equipment available on every job (cranes when needed), we usually do a leaning tree differently. We climb the tree its lodged in, or another nearby tree, or set ropes remotely. But when the room is available and a tractor, there's little to go wrong if you size up the situation and make careful cuts. 

My earlier response was wrong. If the plan is to pull the tree off the stump, so it comes out of the tree it's hung in, then you need to notch the underside of the tree. Be careful, don't go too deep. Be aware of the downward forces in play. Then, apply a bit of tension with the tractor and make a backcut. Leave a slightly larger than normal hinge, or at least stop when the face either starts to open or close. Then pull it off the stump.

Your sideways pull idea might work as well, but only if it is barely lodged in the other tree.


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## Ed Roland

tawilson said:


> I'm surprised none your wiseazz buddies chirped in with "see, you should have hired a professional.":hmm3grin2orange:



Maybe senior wilson, would like to put a tagline in the top and pull said tree with his little 'z mower'?

Blinky is right about the extreme rotating forces. Be VERY carefull with this one. Post some pics.


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## tawilson

woodweasel said:


> Maybe senior wilson, would like to put a tagline in the top and pull said tree with his little 'z mower'?
> 
> Blinky is right about the extreme rotating forces. Be VERY carefull with this one. Post some pics.



No, *you* snag them, I drag them. If that Kubota can't cut it, I got a couple of John Deeres that will.


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## Ed Roland

tawilson said:


> No, *you* snag them, I drag them. If that Kubota can't cut it, I got a couple of John Deeres that will.



I hear u Tom. I have equipment envy.


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## smokechase II

*don't put yourself under a hazard*

Can you pull it in a manner where you will not have to go under it?


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## R&W

*Leaning Trees*

Having thrown myself headfirst into tree cutting after hurricane Sandy here in NJ
Myself and newfound tree partner just about killed ourselves on our first three jobs.
Thousands of leaning trees here. Ive always cut trees sence a kid, big tree felling, taking down trees with backleans, climbing with homemade ropes and dads deadly
Old homelite.

Never had to deal with leaners. So for starters we underbid the job. Guy must have been laughing to himself at the quote and uttering" Rookies" we had billboarded on our foreheads.

To make a long story short, we were working with an 017, 021, 029 and my new 311 purchased that morning. Also had a bunch of cable pullys, chains and not so heavy duty lines.

So we start making the wrong cuts. We notch the underside then attach a cable pully tothe other large tree it was hung up on. Partner starts making a face cut, pinches the bar, tree breaks and drops 2 feet with the 029 bar resting 8 inches into the ground bentlike a banana. We dig out around the sides to pull the case bolts off and get the head out of the way. Run down to the hardware store and pick up another 20 inch bar that we destroy about an hour later.

So we get back to breaking things. Bend the cable pully handle and now stuck tight to tree. Oh well. So we just pick up a heavy duty chain and lob that over and around"just to be on the safe side".

So our next cuts were the reverse of the first. Face notch, bore cut, backcut. Now with all these cables and chains the tree can only fall in one direction right? No. So we are about to get this unhung now. We move the saws about 40 feet away and do the finishing cuts with the 021. So we are on our toes, make the final finishing cut. Shes MOVING!!!!!! OH NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! WRONG DIRECTION!!!!

So instead of tree dropping down to the ground another two feet, the top rips loose from tention and falls away from lean and onto the saws we had safely moved away driving the 029 into the ground and into a milluon pieces. Lands 5 inches from the 311 I bought that morning. Thank god. So we just bust out laughing because everything that could go wrong did go wrong.

I thought long and hard about taking down leaning trees after that. Kinetic energy can be a real b****! Almost killed myself on the next job cutting a tree that had a fork forced onto the ground between to larger trees. One cut rips the saw out of my hand at full throttle and forked limb springs 6 feet outside of cut. Had I been on the other side the saw would have been planted between my to eyes.

I am gratefull to be alive. Spiritually changed. I love this work. I just know you cant ever predict mother nature and need to be thinking 110% of the time about every possible thing to go wrong because it can and eventually will. This comming from someone that used ti commercial fish mainly longlining in the Bearing Sea. This is just as brutal in the body and just as dangerous. Certainly gets the blood pumping again.


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## RandyMac

Del_ said:


>



:hmm3grin2orange:


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## 2treeornot2tree

opcorn:


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## treevet

where you at in Jersey?


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## treemandan

treevet said:


> where you at in Jersey?



County General?


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## R&W

*Leaning Trees*



tawilson said:


> I'm surprised none your wiseazz buddies chirped in with "see, you should have hired a professional.":hmm3grin2orange:



Im working from Warren in Somerset to Huntedon County. We are picking the honey holes left. The easy money has been made. Cutters left the entire area a mess. The lack of rain with sandy has come through and loose trees are falling still on the daily basis in the heavy winds. New work on top of fresh clean ups. We sold a job today that looks and will be very dangerous. We have no way out of climbing this one. My partner is 5 foot 9 @130lbs. He wants to climb. I am 212 @ 6 foot. I told him I dont want him to do it. I will climb unless he gets his head together.

Then job is an oak grown out into 3 large limbs about 75 to 100 feet. The growth diapersment started a foot of the ground. Two of the trunk bases are split sideways in the center running up 2 feet from the roots. One is leaning on the neighbors tree that has cancer at the base and is leaning now from the med size limb resting on top. The other split baae on the oak is over 30 inches, again split with a lemon twist 2 feet up from trunk base. 30 feet up is a 500 lb limb hung up on an ash tree, with a 300 to 350 lb limb floating outside.

Game plan is to think about this all weekend but think Im going to climb and cut the 300 lb limb first and hope the tree rises 6 to 10 inches so we can strap it and pull it off enough to make a clean cut near the base.

Yeah..huh? I will post a pic here before I make a deadly miatake and launch myself 40ffeet into the woods.

NAMASTE


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## 2treeornot2tree

I think you should quit while you are still alive!


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## R&W

*photo of leaning oak top secton 1*

photo of the larger limb. one one left at fork is about 500 lbs and resting. one on right is 300-350 lbs not resting. i am thinking get a strap high up on right limb to a tree off to the lower right out of frame. use an 8000lb strap and slightly stretched garage door spring to keep pressure pulling right. then use the 017 to make a virticle hinge cut in 30% on the right side of right limb. Then 
do a virticle hinge cut opposite side in 50%. limb should stay up and swing right when coaxed from the ground.

View attachment 270173


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## R&W

Im not sure if your kidding or not. I just might be nuts. if I threw the bag off a deer stand, I could hurl the limb through the woods!


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## treevet

R&W said:


> Im working from Warren in Somerset to Huntedon County.
> 
> The growth diapersment started a foot of the ground.
> 
> NAMASTE



What kinda gear you yayhoos got?

I used to work Hunterdon and Somerset out of base in Flemington for a dozen years.

If you could promise me some big bucks up front and a base to work from I might consider bringing some of my toys out there and have at it. 

Never saw diapers or cancer on a tree. You guys must be Certipied Aborists?

Cheers


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## B Harrison

At first i though this was serious, but now I see that its just the AS version of SNL.

Great stuff!

I was so ready to go into a natural selection essay! alas


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## R&W

*n0 problem*



Del_ said:


> Kidding?
> 
> Hell no. I'm as serious as you are.
> 
> 
> We used bacon grease on the rope to cut back on crotch friction but didn't think of tossing from a deer stand.



I went back today took 15 pics and measured with a lazer. I have both a blue and red lazer pointer. kevelar strap lines, french hooks and springs, pitchfork, rake, breaker bars, large and small, light to heavy hand axes, tow chains with hooks 2, dark side of moon cds, pu truck with tie downs, oregon gloves, saftey glasses, 5 saws all ripping but one, some cheap rope, cable and cable cutters, two cell phones and 4g samsung. we carry crystals as well, small point flashlights, good quick knives, asprin and coffee.

yeah, huh


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## Pelorus

No green laser? No Steiner with a slip scoop? 
Gross deficiencies in the kit are hereby noted in the report.


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## Bermie

Don't forget the bags filled with mulch of the landing zone, that awesome brown rope from Lowes and the helpers you get from behind MacDonald's...

C'mon, who remembers THAT guy...


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