# Woods furnace choices



## Josh36 (Jan 18, 2017)

Hey fellers I have a question. I'm looking to upgrade my woodstove. Right now I have a old woodchuck that was made in 1979. It's a good stove but there is a few cracks starting around the base where the door shuts. I was looking at a shelter and a drolet heatpro. My house is about 2000 square feet. I like the idea of the shaker grates and forced air with the shelter. The drolet I love the plenum that comes with it but I don't like the fact it doesn't have the shaker grates and how you scoop out the ashes. I realize prob anyone of them will be a step up from what I have. So my question is which one would be more efficient as far as burn times and heat. I have heard some things about the drolet with cracking issues. And my wood isn't always seasoned. I have neverror had a problem burning it and I have plenty of heat. Would drolet handle some green wood or not. I would to see some options on which stove would be better thanks everyone for the reply


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## Jeff Lary (Jan 18, 2017)

Hi and welcome 
I have an old home 2 story 70 percent insulated we have always burned wood. Always split an seasoned though. This last winter we bought a Blaze King Princess I ran it las t winter and this so far. Very pleased . They make a model called the King that may fit your needs . Although it does require an 8 inch flue. Do some research read the reviews and be honest with yourself as to your ability oduce safe seasoned firewood and yourheating needs. Good luck! Jeff


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## Josh36 (Jan 18, 2017)

Thanks Jeff I'll into those too. I know there is a lot of stoves out there. Just trying to stay within a budget if possible. I will deferently look them up


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## Jeff Lary (Jan 18, 2017)

They are not cheap but good stuff never is. There are many that may fit the bill for you. You can go to ********** they are a good source of stove information. Many threads many more opinions take each one with a big ole grain of salt do your research you'll be fine.


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## CaseyForrest (Jan 18, 2017)

Any stove will burn green wood. But you'll be battling creosote and if you get an EPA stove, you wont benefit from the technology. I notice a stark difference between 1 year seasoned wood and 2 year seasoned wood in the heat output compared to air input and length of burn.

We have a Hearthstone Heritage 8022 and a Jotul Rockland 550 in the fireplace.


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## Josh36 (Jan 18, 2017)

I wondered if the epa stove have problems with green wood. I usually have mine cut a year ahead of time. But sometimes I get behind. I will take a look at those to. Can't have to many options. I have only seen a few a stoves that looked ok but I wanted everyone's opinion cause I know there is a lot of good stoves out there. I have only had this one stove and I'm afraid one of these days it will be burnt out.


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## CaseyForrest (Jan 19, 2017)

Its not that the stove will have a problem with it. They will burn anything just like a regular stove. Where you wont see any benefit in an EPA stove is getting the secondaries or cat to fire off. In order for secondary combustion to take place the moisture level in the wood needs to be below 20%. 10-15 is even better. 

Dry wood in an EPA stove will give you more useable heat over the same amount of wood.


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## NSMaple1 (Jan 19, 2017)

Are you talking stoves, or furnaces? Some cross-talk going on.

Which model Shelter? 

Of what you mentioned, I think I would go Drolet, and get my wood drier. It really does pay off.

Shaker grates - not really that big a deal unless burning coal, IMO. Although grates might help when trying to burn down a big load of coals, depending on the unit & wood etc... (Said with possible accompanying sound of worm can opening.....)


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## Jeff Lary (Jan 19, 2017)

Josh
I sent you a private message it will appear under the inbox tab at the very top right corner of your page.


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## unclemoustache (Jan 19, 2017)

Blaze King. My local rep told me that they don't know how long the stoves last, because they haven't had one wear out yet. I believe it. Expensive, but worth it.


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## Marshy (Jan 19, 2017)

@Josh36, NSMaple1 is correct there is some cross talk going on. The title of your post says woodstove but you said in the body of your first post that you are interested in furnaces. Some people have not caught that and are making suggestions about woodstoves. Which are you interested in, a free standing wood stove or a forced air furnace?


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## djkost (Jan 19, 2017)

Check out Drolet, I have the Heat Pro


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jan 20, 2017)

Blaze King.


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## Jeff Lary (Jan 20, 2017)

if you watch Alaska the Last Frontier the Kiltchers have 3 I think Otto has an old one I have seen many times.


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## alleyyooper (Jan 20, 2017)

I was going to buy the Shelter (because of the shaker grates.) add on wood furnace 2013 my self. I didn't get it because Menards the dealer wanted me to pay shipping *TO THE STORE* and pick it up there.
Screw that trick, went to Home Depot and bought the England 28 3500. No shaker grates on it but it burns the wood so good the ashes are like flour almost and fall thru the grates easily. Shipping to my home was only 50.00 extra too. I am extremely happy with it and every time I drive by Menards I say thank you for trying to screw me. I also burn some wood with a high moisture content, doesn't have a problem with the burn but for my own peace of mind and to get early morning heat I open it up so it burns high enough to dry the chimney.

Lowe's sells the same furnace only a different color and name, Summer Heat.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Englande...100185844?keyword=england+28+3500+wood+burner 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Summers-Heat-3-000-sq-ft-Wood-Furnace/3260227

With both Lowe's and Home Depot you can get a 10% veterans discount on this product with a good VA Id card.
I highly recommend you do an out side burn for the first time on any new wood stove but for the England it really smoked.
I did some mods to mine, there is a plate inside that is held in place with a chunk of metal about the middle that hangs down. I welded 4 pieces of angle iron so it can not get pushed cross hawed trying to get that last chunk of wood in it so it could fall before I did that into the fire and it is heavy. I also made a heavy wire handle in the middle of the ash pan to make pulling it out to empty easier. 

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Jan 20, 2017)

alleyyooper said:


> I was going to buy the Shelter (because of the shaker grates.) add on wood furnace 2013 my self. I didn't get it because Menards the dealer wanted me to pay shipping *TO THE STORE* and pick it up there.
> Screw that trick, went to *Home Depot* and bought the *England 28 3500*. No shaker grates on it but it burns the wood so good the ashes are like flour almost and fall thru the grates easily. Shipping to my home was only 50.00 extra too. I am extremely happy with it and every time I drive by Menards I say thank you for trying to screw me. I also burn some wood with a high moisture content some times, doesn't have a problem with the burn but for my own peace of mind and to get early morning heat I open it up so it burns hot enough to dry the chimney.
> 
> *Lowe's* sells the same furnace only a different color and name,* Summer Heat*.
> ...


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## sunfish (Jan 20, 2017)

*Jotul*


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## Marshy (Jan 20, 2017)

The OP is talking furnace not stoves!!! The title needs to be changed. Maybe @TonyK can give the guy a hand before he has 3 pages of useless info.


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## aokpops (Jan 20, 2017)

bought a shelter 26 26 about 4 years ago . I had trouble with the chimney plugging up and had 1 chimney fire, the wood I use is well seasoned . Bought a drolet tundra 2 years ago the creosote problem is more . Miss the shaker grate a little , The drolet sips wood makes for catching up on the wood pile a lot less work . So far no cracking issue


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## brenndatomu (Jan 21, 2017)

Were you considering the Drolet HeatPro or the smaller Heatmax? The older model Heatmax (Tundra) was the one with the cracking issues, not the HeatPro or the current Heatmax/Tundra. Also, Shelter just Came out with a new "EPA" certified clean burn furnace that initial reports say is a heating _beast_! Model SF2600 IIRC...Menards is the only place I've seen 'em yet...


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## Mustang71 (Jan 21, 2017)

I have a daka wood furnace and I hate it. Does it heat my house? Yes does it burn wood down to dust? Yes The damper that regulates the air to the stove is a pile of crap and I'm always down there moving the wood around to get it to burn hot and completely. I've had it for 3 years not and welded a Crack by the door once.


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## unclemoustache (Jan 21, 2017)

Marshy said:


> The OP is talking furnace not stoves!!! The title needs to be changed. Maybe @TonyK can give the guy a hand before he has 3 pages of useless info.



I don't recommend the Lopi Leyden. That's a horrible stove.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 22, 2017)

cry once.....Kuuma.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 6, 2017)

New to this site as of zero dark thirty today. Can anyone point me in the direction of a new stove that meets the following criteria? I am growing up and putting on my big boy stove pants. I am currently running a Englander 28-3500.

In order of importance

1.Firebox build/quality gauge steel
2.Secondary Burn with quality burn tubes for longevity
3.Firebox size for 24in logs
4.Ease of adaptability with single 8" plenum feed
5.Warranty for cracking
6.Cost


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## NSMaple1 (Nov 6, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> New to this site as of zero dark thirty today. Can anyone point me in the direction of a new stove that meets the following criteria? I am growing up and putting on my big boy stove pants. I am currently running a Englander 28-3500.
> 
> In order of importance
> 
> ...



Sounds like your talking furnace and not stove?


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## Nickatnite (Nov 6, 2017)

NSMaple1 said:


> Sounds like your talking furnace and not stove?


I appreciate the symantics, yes furnace wood only.


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## Mustang71 (Nov 6, 2017)

I don't know if cost belongs on that list...

Maybe a drolet but again cost.


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## NSMaple1 (Nov 7, 2017)

Since cost was at the bottom - my first look would be at a Kuuma. I don't know what it specs for plenum hookup though - and we don't know anything about your heat load. But if you're talking 8" plenum feed, and if the Englander kept you warm, it can't be huge?

(You would need dry wood).


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## brenndatomu (Nov 7, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> New to this site as of zero dark thirty today. Can anyone point me in the direction of a new stove that meets the following criteria? I am growing up and putting on my big boy stove pants. I am currently running a Englander 28-3500.
> 
> In order of importance
> 
> ...


I don't think you will find any one furnace to check all the criterion off. 
The new Englander 28-4000 maybe? Drolet Tundra II, or the larger HeatPro? Can always go with the higher priced PSG Caddy/Max Caddy if you are afraid of the Drolet name...


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## Nickatnite (Nov 10, 2017)

Mustang71 said:


> I don't know if cost belongs on that list...
> 
> Maybe a drolet but again cost.


Drolet HeatPro was in the top three but then I kept going back to the last one (7th on list) Clayton 1802G. I just don't like that it doesn't have a secondary burn. Yes I know it is sold as a coal stove but it is a heavy beast, that translates into build quality for me. Also is there one out there that is manufactured with three gauge rolled steel?

1.Max Caddy
2.Kuuma Vapor Fire 100
3.Drolet HeatPro
4.Ashley AF700
5.Neopolen HF200
6. Yukon Big Jack
7.Clayton 1802G


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## Nickatnite (Nov 10, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> I don't think you will find any one furnace to check all the criterion off.
> The new Englander 28-4000 maybe? Drolet Tundra II, or the larger HeatPro? Can always go with the higher priced PSG Caddy/Max Caddy if you are afraid of the Drolet name...


I do like the Englander 28-3500 that I have now, the firebox does not seem like a quality build unless they improved on the 4000? I bought my first stove in 2006 (28-3500) and after 5 years I started to smell wood gas so I opened the shell up that spring only to discover weld burn through in multiple places. They actually shipped me a replacement and took back the defective one no charge. I now have a partial baffle plate rail that has cracked off on the right side.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 10, 2017)

NSMaple1 said:


> Since cost was at the bottom - my first look would be at a Kuuma. I don't know what it specs for plenum hookup though - and we don't know anything about your heat load. But if you're talking 8" plenum feed, and if the Englander kept you warm, it can't be huge?
> 
> (You would need dry wood).


I have a 3000 sqft home on two zone HVAC. After thinking about it I would require a dual 8" take off . One to feed 1st floor and another to feed up to air handler on second floor. I will have to open up a channel in the exterior garage wall to get to main trunk feed. My Englander has a single 8" take off into my HVAC air handler


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## Nickatnite (Nov 10, 2017)

Mustang71 said:


> I have a daka wood furnace and I hate it. Does it heat my house? Yes does it burn wood down to dust? Yes The damper that regulates the air to the stove is a pile of crap and I'm always down there moving the wood around to get it to burn hot and completely. I've had it for 3 years not and welded a Crack by the door once.


I have read to stay away from DAKA.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 10, 2017)

Josh36 said:


> Hey fellers I have a question. I'm looking to upgrade my woodstove. Right now I have a old woodchuck that was made in 1979. It's a good stove but there is a few cracks starting around the base where the door shuts. I was looking at a shelter and a drolet heatpro. My house is about 2000 square feet. I like the idea of the shaker grates and forced air with the shelter. The drolet I love the plenum that comes with it but I don't like the fact it doesn't have the shaker grates and how you scoop out the ashes. I realize prob anyone of them will be a step up from what I have. So my question is which one would be more efficient as far as burn times and heat. I have heard some things about the drolet with cracking issues. And my wood isn't always seasoned. I have neverror had a problem burning it and I have plenty of heat. Would drolet handle some green wood or not. I would to see some options on which stove would be better thanks everyone for the reply


When I started looking for an upgrade "Woodchuck" came across my radar and I was ready to pony up. I could not find any retailers on line so I called Myer and to my displeasure they no longer manufacture them. If I were you I would find a decent welder if you are not already one and get that thing back on line.


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## Mustang71 (Nov 11, 2017)

I have never herd "stay away from daka" they are a cheap primitive furnace like the hot blast. Basic technology that works but is not very efficient.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 11, 2017)

Mustang71 said:


> I have never herd "stay away from daka" they are a cheap primitive furnace like the hot blast. Basic technology that works but is not very efficient.


What stove, furnace if you wish would you recommend for 3000 sq ft?


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## brenndatomu (Nov 11, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> Drolet HeatPro was in the top three but then I kept going back to the last one (7th on list) Clayton 1802G. I just don't like that it doesn't have a secondary burn. Yes I know it is sold as a coal stove but it is a heavy beast, that translates into build quality for me. Also is there one out there that is manufactured with three gauge rolled steel?
> 
> 1.Max Caddy
> 2.Kuuma Vapor Fire 100
> ...





Nickatnite said:


> What stove, furnace if you wish would you recommend for 3000 sq ft?


The Max Caddy/Drolet HeatPro is my recommmendation...the HeatPro being the most bang for the buck there.
The Kuuma is by far the best furnace on the list, but also the most expensive.
The Ashley is an unproven new model by a copy cat cut rate manufacturer.
Napoleon has very little feedback from furnace owners, the little bit that is out there is mostly bad.
The Big Jack is too small, you want a SuperJack, but they are no longer available to the USA (new) so that would be a used purchase only...and they are not the cleanest burners either.
The Clayton, no...just no. Just because it is made from the heaviest gauge metal does no mean it is built the best...much better off with a Yukon. (the Clayton is made by the same company as the Ashley, USSC)


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## Nickatnite (Nov 11, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> The Max Caddy/Drolet HeatPro is my recommmendation...the HeatPro being the most bang for the buck there.
> The Kuuma is by far the best furnace on the list, but also the most expensive.
> The Ashley is an unproven new model by a copy cat cut rate manufacturer.
> Napoleon has very little feedback from furnace owners, the little bit that is out there is mostly bad.
> ...


Your opinions are much appreciated and you are insightful in a minimalist way. My research pointed me to the top two in your list so at this point I certainly respect your opinion. I am going to finish out the season with the 28-3500 and shift it to the garage for a few reasons. Since I am going to wait until spring do the prices come down in an off season? I have the funds now so...


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## Nickatnite (Nov 11, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> The Max Caddy/Drolet HeatPro is my recommmendation...the HeatPro being the most bang for the buck there.
> The Kuuma is by far the best furnace on the list, but also the most expensive.
> The Ashley is an unproven new model by a copy cat cut rate manufacturer.
> Napoleon has very little feedback from furnace owners, the little bit that is out there is mostly bad.
> ...


Something else you can help me understand... why with the others Ashley, Clayton, Hotblast, Englander all have very high BTU output but the Big Jack is far less for more money?


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## brenndatomu (Nov 11, 2017)

Keep your eyes open for mid season sales...I've seen some great ones.
FYI, here in the Midwest we have Menards, which is a direct competitor to Lowes and Home Depot, and they carry the HeatPro. Even though the easternmost store is here in Ohio, a good sale may make the "ship to your home" option attractive. They do a "11% off everything" sale every so many weeks...and sometimes that discount (actually a mail in rebate) is on top of sale prices...I've seen the HeatPro as low as $2k (ish) after sale and rebate...


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## brenndatomu (Nov 11, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> Something else you can help me understand... why with the others Ashley, Clayton, Hotblast, Englander all have very high BTU output but the Big Jack is far less for more money?


Those BTU ratings are almost useless...I think they pull them out of their ears. Its the same with woodstoves too. Firebox size means as much as anything...but it gets more complicated with furnaces because some models have better heat exchangers than others. That's the only difference between a Big Jack and a Super Jack...the SJ has a secondary heat exchanger, the BJ doesn't.
It can take a lot of research to land on the right wood furnace for your home...but I think you are headed in the right direction.
Too big is better than too small. "Too big" you can build smaller fires, or less of them, but with "too small" there is not much can be done other than run the oil/gas/electric heat (or freeze)


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## brenndatomu (Nov 11, 2017)

FYI any furnace that will actually do a good job on that size house will have more than just two 8" supply ducts...most (like the HeatPro) use a plenum, and then you can adapt your pipe(s) to that...you may need to upsize or go with (2) 8" pipes to each zone...depending on how far and/or complicated the runs are.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 11, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> Those BTU ratings are almost useless...I think they pull them out of their ears. Its the same with woodstoves too. Firebox size means as much as anything...but it gets more complicated with furnaces because some models have better heat exchangers than others. That's the only difference between a Big Jack and a Super Jack...the SJ has a secondary heat exchanger, the BJ doesn't.
> It can take a lot of research to land on the right wood furnace for your home...but I think you are headed in the right direction.
> Too big is better than too small. "Too big" you can build smaller fires, or less of them, but with "too small" there is not much can be done other than run the oil/gas/electric heat (or freeze)


Well isn't that a bugger!! the EPA rules shutdown Yukon manufacturing until they can fall into compliance. They are only selling stove parts to those grandfathered.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 11, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> Well isn't that a bugger!! the EPA rules shutdown Yukon manufacturing until they can fall into compliance. They are only selling stove parts to those grandfathered.


They're still selling to Canada...and working on getting the multifuel Husky furnace to pass the 2020 EPA emissions limits...they were going to certify to the 2017 limits, but then decided it was so much work/expense, lets do this once and be done...sounds like excuses to me...they couldn't have made that decision 2 years ago and then be ready to go with the new model(s) in 2017? IDK...I was waiting to see how much it was going to cost to update my Husky with the new clean burn firebox (supposed to retrofit) but if the right deal comes along on the right unit, I may just swap out and be done.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 11, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> They're still selling to Canada...and working on getting the multifuel Husky furnace to pass the 2020 EPA emissions limits...they were going to certify to the 2017 limits, but then decided it was so much work/expense, lets do this once and be done...sounds like excuses to me...they couldn't have made that decision 2 years ago and then be ready to go with the new model(s) in 2017? IDK...I was waiting to see how much it was going to cost to update my Husky with the new clean burn firebox (supposed to retrofit) but if the right deal comes along on the right unit, I may just swap out and be done.


Yeah the whole thing is now a bit disappointing to me... has taken an option away. I think I will be tapping out as a potential customer, once they have met the EPA regs someone has to pony up for all of the R&D and re-tooling. That someone is the consumer! Nice brisk day over here in N.H, my Englander is going full bore today.


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## Mustang71 (Nov 11, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> What stove, furnace if you wish would you recommend for 3000 sq ft?



I can't. This is the only wood furnace I've had. I have twin blowers and put a plenum on top of it with 4 8 inch ducts and 2 6 inch ducts coming off it and tied them into my duct work along with back draft dampers.

For my next one whenever that is I may look for something more efficient. I' not a fan of Napoleon natural gas fire places or natural gas furnaces so Napoleon won' be an option.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 13, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> The Max Caddy/Drolet HeatPro is my recommmendation...the HeatPro being the most bang for the buck there.
> The Kuuma is by far the best furnace on the list, but also the most expensive.
> The Ashley is an unproven new model by a copy cat cut rate manufacturer.
> Napoleon has very little feedback from furnace owners, the little bit that is out there is mostly bad.
> ...


I am still debating what furnace to go with for next season, I need a day off of work to go to the nearest Max Caddy dealer so I can see it and ask questions. I am still looking at the Clayton 1802G, what is it that you do not like about it?

I see that I would need a plenum take-off manufacture for it, I found this on amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Plenum-Ceili...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00B064BZ8) and was wondering your thoughts. Do you think I could make this work? I would remove the 18" 3rd dimension, cover the hole then re-cut for an 8" round take-off.

Clayton installation page 12:https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/c4/c461543a-42f6-4649-a1bf-d4f484b94b59.pdf


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## brenndatomu (Nov 13, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> I am still debating what furnace to go with for next season, I need a day off of work to go to the nearest Max Caddy dealer so I can see it and ask questions. I am still looking at the Clayton 1802G, what is it that you do not like about it?
> 
> I see that I would need a plenum take-off manufacture for it, I found this on amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Plenum-Ceili...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00B064BZ8) and was wondering your thoughts. Do you think I could make this work? I would remove the 18" 3rd dimension, cover the hole then re-cut for an 8" round take-off.
> 
> Clayton installation page 12:https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/c4/c461543a-42f6-4649-a1bf-d4f484b94b59.pdf


Its a coal furnace...anything designed to burn coal will eat you out of house and home when burning wood in it...totally different types of fireboxes (wood and coal that is) and plug the chimney in the process...unless you run it hard and reload every 4 hours.
That, and its a USSC product...not known for top quality products...or great customer service.


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 14, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> The Max Caddy/Drolet HeatPro is my recommmendation...the HeatPro being the most bang for the buck there.
> The Kuuma is by far the best furnace on the list, but also the most expensive.



The Kuuma is not really -that- much more than the Caddy/Max Caddy. Caddy is $4K and Max Caddy is $4.5K. VF100 is $5,295. It was, I believe, $4,800, when I bought mine.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 14, 2017)

JRHAWK9 said:


> The Kuuma is not really -that- much more than the Caddy/Max Caddy. Caddy is $4K and Max Caddy is $4.5K. VF100 is $5,295. It was, I believe, $4,800, when I bought mine.


I made some calls to a few local dealers of the Max Caddy. I was quoted $4,300.00 for the furnace and another $1,500.00 for the blower. I was like "Huh?". what good is the damn furnace without it? I am currently using a 28-3500 that I paid $1,200.00 over five years ago and it has worked well enough. Yes it cooks through the wood but that is the enjoyable part for me cutting, splitting and stacking. I am just going to replace it with the more efficiant 28-4000 for $1,500.00. I could by four of them if they each last five plus years at the same cost as the Max. At fifty one the finish line is fast approching so...


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## laynes69 (Nov 14, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> I made some calls to a few local dealers of the Max Caddy. I was quoted $4,300.00 for the furnace and another $1,500.00 for the blower. I was like "Huh?". what good is the damn furnace without it? I am currently using a 28-3500 that I paid $1,200.00 over five years ago and it has worked well enough. Yes it cooks through the wood but that is the enjoyable part for me cutting, splitting and stacking. I am just going to replace it with the more efficiant 28-4000 for $1,500.00. I could by four of them if they each last five plus years at the same cost as the Max. At fifty one the finish line is fast approching so...


You can buy a caddy line furnace, or there's one made by Usstove called the golden eagle 7700 that's much less. I'm not going to say Caddy makes a bad line of furnaces, but the golden eagle I looked at was better built. You can buy a caddy style furnace and install without the blower in series, which will require no backdraft dampers in the duct system. It's a simple and effective installation if the furnace requires. The golden eagle I looked at was 2200 due to slight cabinet damage, but they retail around 2800 w/o the blower.


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## Mustang71 (Nov 14, 2017)

This is the reason I have a daka furnace. 900 dollars gets me decent heat. I can get a Lennox slp98 for 1600 or so and use minimal propane. 5000 for a wood furnace that' crazy. We charge 2000 to install a 80 percent efficint natural gas furnace who in the right mind would pay that much for a not very efficient wood furnace.


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 14, 2017)

Mustang71 said:


> This is the reason I have a daka furnace. 900 dollars gets me decent heat. I can get a Lennox slp98 for 1600 or so and use minimal propane. 5000 for a wood furnace that' crazy. We charge 2000 to install a 80 percent efficint natural gas furnace who in the right mind would pay that much for a not very efficient wood furnace.



We have a 92% eff LP furnace (2000 era) and used to _average 1,300 gallons of LP a year (sampled over 5 years) keeping the house at 68° and the basement unheated._ We have an LP furnace, drier and water heater. Drier and water heater consumed about 300 gallons a year at the most. This leaves about 1,000+ gallons a year to heat the house. This 1,000 gallons at 92% efficiency supplied ~ 84,180,000 BTU's over the heating season. Convert those BTU's into lbs of wood assuming 80% wood furnace efficiency (which the Kumma tested out as being), and you are looking at 16,200lbs of firewood needed to produce the same BTU's as a 1,000 gallons of LP in a 92% efficient furnace......_keeping the house at 68° and the basement unheated._ Convert to lbs of red oak.....~4.4 cords. 

Now we have a Kuuma wood furnace and I weigh all wood I burn and also have a minute timer on my LP furnace in order to keep track of how much the LP furnace runs. I log everything in a spreadsheet, this allows me to compute/track all sorts of things. I burn between 14,600 and 18,250 pounds (4 to 5 cords of red oak) a year while _keeping the house 72°-75° while completely heating the basement AND heating our DHW in winter_. I can tell you for a fact, before the wood furnace, we would have used LOTS more than 1,000 gallons of LP if we tried to keep the house at 72° while also trying to heat the basement. Last winter we used 15,115 lbs of wood and 115 gallons of LP (includes what little the LP furnace ran, DHW and drier). 

According to my numbers, my wood furnace is making better use of the wood then my LP furnace was making of the LP. 

I have a buddy who installed a Daka (Menard's special) the same time I installed my Kuuma. No thank you.....goes through wood like crazy, burns dirty and requires one to constantly monitor their chimney. Because the Kuuma is computer controlled, it's ALWAYS burning optimally, is pretty much smokeless and doesn't require yearly chimney sweeps because it burns the majority of the gasses instead of sending them up the chimney to condense and form creosote. Like with almost everything these days, you get what you pay for. Everything these days is getting cheaper and cheaper. It's hard to find anything quality anymore. When I find it, I don't mind paying for it. 

More about the company...a company of SIX employees.
http://www.timberjay.com/stories/poised-for-growth,13580 
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/4329352-iron-range-wood-furnace-factory-needs-room-grow


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## Nickatnite (Nov 15, 2017)

JRHAWK9 said:


> We have a 92% eff LP furnace (2000 era) and used to _average 1,300 gallons of LP a year (sampled over 5 years) keeping the house at 68° and the basement unheated._ We have an LP furnace, drier and water heater. Drier and water heater consumed about 300 gallons a year at the most. This leaves about 1,000+ gallons a year to heat the house. This 1,000 gallons at 92% efficiency supplied ~ 84,180,000 BTU's over the heating season. Convert those BTU's into lbs of wood assuming 80% wood furnace efficiency (which the Kumma tested out as being), and you are looking at 16,200lbs of firewood needed to produce the same BTU's as a 1,000 gallons of LP in a 92% efficient furnace......_keeping the house at 68° and the basement unheated._ Convert to lbs of red oak.....~4.4 cords.
> 
> Now we have a Kuuma wood furnace and I weigh all wood I burn and also have a minute timer on my LP furnace in order to keep track of how much the LP furnace runs. I log everything in a spreadsheet, this allows me to compute/track all sorts of things. I burn between 14,600 and 18,250 pounds (4 to 5 cords of red oak) a year while _keeping the house 72°-75° while completely heating the basement AND heating our DHW in winter_. I can tell you for a fact, before the wood furnace, we would have used LOTS more than 1,000 gallons of LP if we tried to keep the house at 72° while also trying to heat the basement. Last winter we used 15,115 lbs of wood and 115 gallons of LP (includes what little the LP furnace ran, DHW and drier).
> 
> ...


Don't like it! "Then there was one" These new standards could potentially put every manufacture out of business but Lammpa which could then lend to the U-Ass Gubment getting total control of that industry. Greedy little Lammpa millennial grandchildren or what ever triple X label after them could ask whatever price for their product.


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## Mustang71 (Nov 15, 2017)

Guswhit said:


> We have a 92% eff LP furnace (2000 era) and used to _average 1,300 gallons of LP a year (sampled over 5 years) keeping the house at 68° and the basement unheated._ We have an LP furnace, drier and water heater. Drier and water heater consumed about 300 gallons a year at the most. This leaves about 1,000+ gallons a year to heat the house. This 1,000 gallons at 92% efficiency supplied ~ 84,180,000 BTU's over the heating season. Convert those BTU's into lbs of wood assuming 80% wood furnace efficiency (which the Kumma tested out as being), and you are looking at 16,200lbs of firewood needed to produce the same BTU's as a 1,000 gallons of LP in a 92% efficient furnace......_keeping the house at 68° and the basement unheated._ Convert to lbs of red oak.....~4.4 cords.
> 
> Now we have a Kuuma wood furnace and I weigh all wood I burn and also have a minute timer on my LP furnace in order to keep track of how much the LP furnace runs. I log everything in a spreadsheet, this allows me to compute/track all sorts of things. I burn between 14,600 and 18,250 pounds (4 to 5 cords of red oak) a year while _keeping the house 72°-75° while completely heating the basement AND heating our DHW in winter_. I can tell you for a fact, before the wood furnace, we would have used LOTS more than 1,000 gallons of LP if we tried to keep the house at 72° while also trying to heat the basement. Last winter we used 15,115 lbs of wood and 115 gallons of LP (includes what little the LP furnace ran, DHW and drier).
> 
> ...




I have a Lennox elite 92 percent furnace and use less than 500 gallons of propane a year and burn around or less than 3 chord of whatever wood i cut. My house is 1700sqft and built in 75.


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## NSMaple1 (Nov 15, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> Don't like it! "Then there was one" These new standards could potentially put every manufacture out of business but Lammpa which could then lend to the U-Ass Gubment getting total control of that industry. Greedy little Lammpa millennial grandchildren or what ever triple X label after them could ask whatever price for their product.



Now that's just silly. 

If other manufacturers can't build to standards but a small 6 person family based outfit can - that doesn't say much for the capabilities of the other manufacturers, and is certainly no reason to show hate to the small guys that can do it.


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 15, 2017)

NSMaple1 said:


> Now that's just silly.
> 
> If other manufacturers can't build to standards but a small 6 person family based outfit can - that doesn't say much for the capabilities of the other manufacturers, and is certainly no reason to show hate to the small guys that can do it.



exactly. I almost fell off my chair laughing at nickatnite's post...lmao


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 15, 2017)

Mustang71 said:


> I have a Lennox elite 92 percent furnace and use less than 500 gallons of propane a year and burn around or less than 3 chord of whatever wood i cut. My house is 1700sqft and built in 75.



Ours is a log cabin style, completely open with loft. Not a very efficient design to heat, no attic and only about 18" separates the inside ceiling from the outside roof. Not a whole lot of room for insulation. Heat loss calcs state heat load to be between 55,000-65,000 BTU's/hr keeping the house 70° while 0° outside. 32x42 footprint. Heating ~3,300 SF including the basement and loft. There's about 30,000CF of volume to heat.


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## Mustang71 (Nov 15, 2017)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Ours is a log cabin style, completely open with loft. Not a very efficient design to heat, no attic and only about 18" separates the inside ceiling from the outside roof. Not a whole lot of room for insulation. Heat loss calcs state heat load to be between 55,000-65,000 BTU's/hr keeping the house 70° while 0° outside. 32x42 footprint. Heating ~3,300 SF including the basement and loft. There's about 30,000CF of volume to heat.



That explains it. It would take me many years to recover the price of a hi tech wood furnace. Mine saves me a tank of propane or about 600$ a year and allows me to be nice and warm when I'm home. I guess it all depends on your heating needs. If I were to heat with wood only then maybe if spend a bit more money on a furnace.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 15, 2017)

JRHAWK9 said:


> exactly. I almost fell off my chair laughing at nickatnite's post...lmao


Well, due to my poor grammar I came off as bashing an entrepreneur so let me state my point a little different. I do not begrudge anyone that can bring a product or service to market that one needs or can use. My angst is toward the U-Ass Gubmnet for setting such a tight standard that can be un-achivable or unreasonable either the manufacture or end user for various reasons. Driving all but one manufacture out of the business can create a multitude of unintended or intend consequences, believe it or not not all Americans are independently wealthy for many social and economic reasons. The furnace Lammpa is marketing is only available to a limited market and I get the fact that they took a risk and engineered something and should be compensated for it through pricing. I am simply saying that some of us can only afford what we can afford and sometimes you have to settle for something that is just a little less than adequate but suits the need.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 16, 2017)

Sheez, this thread escalated quickly! 


Nickatnite said:


> I made some calls to a few local dealers of the Max Caddy. I was quoted $4,300.00 for the furnace and another $1,500.00 for the blower. I was like "Huh?". what good is the damn furnace without it?


That's why I said Heatpro was most bang for buck...$2500 vs $4300 (Caddy is dealer only item...otherwise they are almost the identical unit) Some people set these things up to heat be gravity...no blower needed. Or do a series install with the existing furnace...


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## JRHAWK9 (Nov 16, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> Sheez, this thread escalated quickly!



It's probably my fault again....lol I have this as my FB cover photo for a reason.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 20, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> Sheez, this thread escalated quickly!
> 
> That's why I said Heatpro was most bang for buck...$2500 vs $4300 (Caddy is dealer only item...otherwise they are almost the identical unit) Some people set these things up to heat be gravity...no blower needed. Or do a series install with the existing furnace...


I appreciate your insight and advice... I bought the Ashley (Red) 1440E today at Tractor Supply online, it was the only one that met most of the specs for my need. Most of all it runs $2,500.00 from Home Depot and they price-matched it from Northertool at $1,799.00 with free shipping to my residence. Additional when I stopped in my local Tractor Supply they were going to give me a 15% military discount until they seen it was an online order item only. The manager told me to come back when I receive it to bring the receipt/invoice in he will give it to me in a store gift card. So all told I go the stove for $1,530.00.

It comes with two 550 CFM blowers, is it safe to swap them out with 850 CFM blowers?


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## NSMaple1 (Nov 20, 2017)

I would likely see how it works as is first. Not sure on the safe question.


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## Iaff113 (Nov 21, 2017)

The two 550 blowers on my hotblast move more then enough air through my duct work. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brenndatomu (Nov 21, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> I appreciate your insight and advice... I bought the Ashley (Red) 1440E today at Tractor Supply online, it was the only one that met most of the specs for my need. Most of all it runs $2,500.00 from Home Depot and they price-matched it from Northertool at $1,799.00 with free shipping to my residence. Additional when I stopped in my local Tractor Supply they were going to give me a 15% military discount until they seen it was an online order item only. The manager told me to come back when I receive it to bring the receipt/invoice in he will give it to me in a store gift card. So all told I go the stove for $1,530.00.
> 
> It comes with two 550 CFM blowers, is it safe to swap them out with 850 CFM blowers?


I wouldn't change a thing until you run it for a while...it may be fine as is...
Guess we are going to find out if USSC has stepped up their game on the new models or not...


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## panolo (Nov 21, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> Don't like it! "Then there was one" These new standards could potentially put every manufacture out of business but Lammpa which could then lend to the U-Ass Gubment getting total control of that industry. Greedy little Lammpa millennial grandchildren or what ever triple X label after them could ask whatever price for their product.



Meh... Not in the dna of the family in my opinion. People are a different breed in the working arrowhead.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 21, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> I wouldn't change a thing until you run it for a while...it may be fine as is...
> Guess we are going to find out if USSC has stepped up their game on the new models or not...


It was just shipped today. It is one thing to see a picture un-fired but another to see it fired! You tried to warn me... went on Tractor Supply just now and found more comments that were not there before. The pictures I am posting here are from the product review. I think I am calling them tomorrow and not going to take delivery, my plan was to have it sit in garage until late summer 2018 then install. I would not if it was a piece of junk until then. Would put me in a bad spot for getting them to take it back. These people are A-holes... what manufacturing standard are they using?


https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/hotblast-1440e-wood-furnace-with-twin-blowers-2-500-sq-ft


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## laynes69 (Nov 21, 2017)

I'm going to play devil's advocate. I understand the pics don't look good, but it's a manual furnace. They could have burned scraps, burned the furnace wide open, etc. If specific draft speeds aren't followed, any stove or furnace can overheat quickly. Looking at the first set of pics from a user, I wouldn't let it pursue me. On the opposite end, for as many epa stove users I see satisfied, I see just as many not. You burn unseasoned wood, you won't get any performance. The only negative I see on the furnace in the photos, it's a manual operated furnace. If you burn dry wood and have a strong draft, it can go from zero to 100 in a matter of minutes. I'm not telling you what to do, but I just figured I would put in my 2 cents.


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## Iaff113 (Nov 21, 2017)

laynes69 said:


> I'm going to play devil's advocate. I understand the pics don't look good, but it's a manual furnace. They could have burned scraps, burned the furnace wide open, etc. If specific draft speeds aren't followed, any stove or furnace can overheat quickly. Looking at the first set of pics from a user, I wouldn't let it pursue me. On the opposite end, for as many epa stove users I see satisfied, I see just as many not. You burn unseasoned wood, you won't get any performance. The only negative I see on the furnace in the photos, it's a manual operated furnace. If you burn dry wood and have a strong draft, it can go from zero to 100 in a matter of minutes. I'm not telling you what to do, but I just figured I would put in my 2 cents.



Being a hotblast owner for afew years now. I will say that it takes a bit of learning to not over fire the unit. Those pictures look like overfires. It doesn’t take much with my 1557m to overfire. I also have an older unit so it is different then the one you are looking st. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## laynes69 (Nov 21, 2017)

Iaff113 said:


> Being a hotblast owner for afew years now. I will say that it takes a bit of learning to not over fire the unit. Those pictures look like overfires. It doesn’t take much with my 1557m to overfire. I also have an older unit so it is different then the one you are looking st.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I had a 1500 series hotblast, that was in operation for around 20 years. I had to babysit it to make sure it wouldn't overfire. Since the new models are epa certified, with good wood, they can be stepped down on the air, earlier in the burn. I agree, the pics look like it was overfired.


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## Nickatnite (Nov 21, 2017)

laynes69 said:


> I'm going to play devil's advocate. I understand the pics don't look good, but it's a manual furnace. They could have burned scraps, burned the furnace wide open, etc. If specific draft speeds aren't followed, any stove or furnace can overheat quickly. Looking at the first set of pics from a user, I wouldn't let it pursue me. On the opposite end, for as many epa stove users I see satisfied, I see just as many not. You burn unseasoned wood, you won't get any performance. The only negative I see on the furnace in the photos, it's a manual operated furnace. If you burn dry wood and have a strong draft, it can go from zero to 100 in a matter of minutes. I'm not telling you what to do, but I just figured I would put in my 2 cents.


I do have to admit at first glance of photos I thought that it looked over fired. "brenndatomu" seems to know his stuff and i certaily appreciate and advice and insight I can get. This is my last stove purchase until check out so...


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## Mustang71 (Nov 21, 2017)

I over fired my daka for a few years now and finally installed a baro damper and no more over firing not to mention tripled the burn time. It's like the manual said I told u so.


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## brenndatomu (Nov 22, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> I do have to admit at first glance of photos I thought that it looked over fired. "brenndatomu" seems to know his stuff and i certaily appreciate and advice and insight I can get. This is my last stove purchase until check out so...


Ha...just a wood heat nut that spends too much time on these sites. Don't discount Laynes...he's very knowledgeable about this stuff too...


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## aokpops (Nov 24, 2017)

I got really lucky bought a new Drolet tundra 3 years ago at a very good price . Was surprised how much less wood I used had a shelters before that was only 2 years old . The shelters was a big pipe plugger l knew l had to get rid of it . The drolet is a lot less work between cutting more wood an cleaning the chimnney with the shelters .Price wise I paid about the same .


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## CWME (Nov 24, 2017)

I picked up a Drolet Heatmax 3 years ago and love it. I cut my wood consumption in half over the Englander 3500 and have had NO creosote whatsoever. The Englander would require monthly cleanings as the pipe would plug up with creosote. The Drolet requires cleaning but its only ash that comes out of the heat exchanger. I can set the thermostat at 72 and the stove will over shoot a bit to 73-74. 3-4 sticks in the morning, 2 when I get home, and 3-4 at night keeps my ranch and basement nice and warm. If the weather gets a little colder out I might put an extra log in at each loading.
I had the cracks show up at the end of the second heating season. I drilled holes in the end of the cracks and welded them up with my mig welder. I had one burn through where the thimble for the door turns into the firebox. Again I welded that up and then welded a piece of angle iron over the repair for reinforcement. I burned it all last year with no issues. I went out of town at the end of the second year and had some friends house sit. I told them how much wood to put in but think they over fired it which caused the cracks.
I would buy the stove again without hesitation. It was hard to drop the $1800 on it but looking back I don't regret it at all.


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## Nickatnite (Dec 2, 2017)

So My Ashley 1440E arrived two days ago and there was a huge credit card issue, part of it was my doing. There were some price drops and some other retailers with lower prices that I got Tractor Supply to price match. Multiple charges on card that have yet to be resolved. So I decided to un-box the stove in the interim and inspect it since the last stove I bought had welding issues discovered a few years after the install. I am posting the photos of my discovery after un-boxing and I highly encourage as many of you to chime in on this build. At present time Brenndatomu advice is coming back to haunt me... Though the stove retails at anywhere between $2,200.00 - $3,000.00 I paid $1,360.00 which is less than I paid for my first stove 28-3500 $1,500










.00. It was hard to pass up ARGH!!!!


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## Nickatnite (Dec 2, 2017)

Additional pictures...






I opted for full image so a thorough inspection can be done of the welds.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 2, 2017)

Iaff113 said:


> The two 550 blowers on my hotblast move more then enough air through my duct work.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




That Hotblast work ok for you?

My brother has one and it's mediocre if you ask me. He's on stove #3 actually, first 2 replaced under warranty, firebox cracked!

The firebox is really small on his and it's only good for 4-5 hours at best. Keeping the house warm nearly a full time job!


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## Iaff113 (Dec 2, 2017)

ValleyFirewood said:


> That Hotblad work ok for you?
> 
> My brother has one and it's mediocre if you ask me. He's on stove #3 actually, first 2 replaced under warranty, firebox cracked!
> 
> The firebox is really small on his and it's only good for 4-5 hours at best. Keeping the house warm nearly a full time job!



What model does he have? I haven’t had any issues out of mine. Except for it being a wood monster, I probably wouldn’t own one either if it wasn’t for the price I got. I have mine hooked to duct work I ran through out the house and it has no problem heating the entire thing. I have the 1557m. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 2, 2017)

I'll have to ask him.

He has his in the basement and a duct goes to the 1st floor.

Yeah he got it pretty cheap as well, I think from Tractor Supply.



Iaff113 said:


> What model does he have? I haven’t had any issues out of mine. Except for it being a wood monster, I probably wouldn’t own one either if it wasn’t for the price I got. I have mine hooked to duct work I ran through out the house and it has no problem heating the entire thing. I have the 1557m.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brenndatomu (Dec 4, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> So My Ashley 1440E arrived two days ago and there was a huge credit card issue, part of it was my doing. There were some price drops and some other retailers with lower prices that I got Tractor Supply to price match. Multiple charges on card that have yet to be resolved. So I decided to un-box the stove in the interim and inspect it since the last stove I bought had welding issues discovered a few years after the install. I am posting the photos of my discovery after un-boxing and I highly encourage as many of you to chime in on this build. At present time Brenndatomu advice is coming back to haunt me... Though the stove retails at anywhere between $2,200.00 - $3,000.00 I paid $1,360.00 which is less than I paid for my first stove 28-3500 $1,500View attachment 616119
> View attachment 616120
> View attachment 616121
> View attachment 616122
> ...


Well that's disappointing!
What the heck punched that thing from the inside out?!


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## Nickatnite (Dec 27, 2017)

brenndatomu said:


> Well that's disappointing!
> What the heck punched that thing from the inside out?!


I believe the puncture is from the shipping company, the rest of it is poor quality control in manufacturing. I have been dealing with USSC since the 11th of this month. I am getting nothing but the run around. 

STAY AWAY FROM USSC!!!!!!


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## JRHAWK9 (Dec 27, 2017)

Nickatnite said:


> I believe the puncture is from the shipping company, the rest of it is poor quality control in manufacturing. I have been dealing with USSC since the 11th of this month. I am getting nothing but the run around.
> 
> STAY AWAY FROM USSC!!!!!!



You may like this then. USSC whining about something which a small company of 6 was able to comply with.


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## blades (Dec 27, 2017)

had a hot blast - not a fan of USSC both sides of the coin were a pain to deal with- and those 2 550cfm blowers blew their bearings 1/2 way into the first season. season 2 installed Englander NC30 upstairs never looked back, pulled and dumped the hotblast when I sold the house last summer.


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## Alex (Dec 28, 2017)

I have been running a Clayton 1802g for three seasons now. I have had no issues except for not really liking the draft blower hooked up to the thermostat. Ended up just running it manually and did away with the draft blower. I heat about 3000 sq ft, always at least 74* inside. I probably burn 3-4 cords a season.


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## Iaff113 (Dec 29, 2017)

Well if you do keep it make sure to keep your blower oiled I do mine twice a year and they have been cranking right along. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aokpops (Dec 30, 2017)

2 blower motor, for some reason must be cheaper to make them , I never understand it . The ones I had were junk from the start


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## Nickatnite (Jan 14, 2018)

aokpops said:


> 2 blower motor, for some reason must be cheaper to make them , I never understand it . The ones I had were junk from the start


Damn blowers are $240.00 a whack!


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## Nickatnite (Jan 14, 2018)

JRHAWK9 said:


> You may like this then. USSC whining about something which a small company of 6 was able to comply with.


Just received Ashley 1440E stove replacement on Thursday. Nearly a two month turnaround from the first crap one they sent. I am nervous since I can't get it into the basement until at least spring for a run up... long after the return date! Think I will drag it out to the driveway and fire it up for a test run. I just can't stand being outdoors in these sub-zero temperatures. Never bothered me a few years ago. USSC stove purchase has to be worst buying experiences of all time.


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## Nickatnite (Jan 14, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Well that's disappointing!
> What the heck punched that thing from the inside out?!


Replacement came on Thursday with the same puncture same side, however not nearly as bad. I so want to swear out load...!!! Let's just say USSC and their shippers are Ass-clowns!


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## Nickatnite (Jan 14, 2018)

JRHAWK9 said:


> You may like this then. USSC whining about something which a small company of 6 was able to comply with.


I just finished reading his plea. First off I agree with most of what he said in re-guards to the industry collapsing into a few hands. If he and others in wood burning appliance manufacturing think this gov... EPA is their drinking buddy they are sadly mistaken. The EPA's goal is to "Jack-Boot" them right our of business. He makes another comment about previous years manufacturing cost on average of $1000.00 per unit. He claims the new EPA regulations "Step 1" have increased purchase price increase to $2000.00. Well if tact-welding six perforated tubes to the upper belly constitutes an overall $1000.00 increase he is definitely doing something wrong. I know it is hyperbole but the idiots buy it (no pun intended) but hey... I bought the stove I did based on cost, reviews. I am in need of a replacement and could not wait and waiting makes me subject to paying through the "A"-hole in a year or two time for so called technology that I can't equate the dollar value.


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## blades (Jan 16, 2018)

It dosen't cost USSC a grand for four tubes -particularly in Chi-com dollars-


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## Nickatnite (May 28, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Well that's disappointing!
> What the heck punched that thing from the inside out?!



Well spring is finally here and thank goodness... My twenty year old sons finally killed my Englander because they refuse to listen to me on the operation of a wood stove. They just want heat at no expense when I am not home. They killed it in early March while it was still cold by over firing it. I think that it has damaged the flue but won't know until I rent a boom lift from depot. Also the blower was going at the same time, so my purchase in Nov was well conceived.

So for punishment I had the both of them help bring the 600lb Ashley 1440E down into the basement through the bulkhead, that in it's self was an evolution! I started studying what it will take to get it up and running in time for this fall and have discovered I might be in trouble for a safely operating stove. I did not take into consideration that the flue take off is at the back instead of where the Englander was on the top. This will add a third 90 in the 30 ft run, the first 90 will have a 40inch run to the second 90 that will exit through the concrete foundation 3ft to the third 90. That run is 25-30ft of exterior flue. I can't see an option of adding some 45's to reduced sluggish draft. I guess my posting is for advice... or will I be OK with that much flue run? or will adding a barometric Draft/damper aide in operation?


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## Mustang71 (May 28, 2018)

Sounds like your flue is tall enough outside to create some good draft. The issue i have with 90s is the soot sits in the horizontal part of the flue. I try to avoid hard 90s as much as I can. If you can do 45s or something like that to create a vertical flue it will work much better but I'm sure it will still draft with 3 90s. 

I put a baro damper in this year and ended up capping it off. Yea I had controlled draft and longer burn times but it was not burning hot enough to heat the house. It also cooled the stainless steel chimney down a lot and was making creosote.

I can get the same effect as a baro but with better heat if I get the furnace hot and load it up. It burns slow and hot due to the lack of in coming oxygen. But my chimney is about 15 feet in height so I don't get crazy draft.


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## brenndatomu (Jun 6, 2018)

Nickatnite said:


> Well spring is finally here and thank goodness... My twenty year old sons finally killed my Englander because they refuse to listen to me on the operation of a wood stove. They just want heat at no expense when I am not home. They killed it in early March while it was still cold by over firing it. I think that it has damaged the flue but won't know until I rent a boom lift from depot. Also the blower was going at the same time, so my purchase in Nov was well conceived.
> 
> So for punishment I had the both of them help bring the 600lb Ashley 1440E down into the basement through the bulkhead, that in it's self was an evolution! I started studying what it will take to get it up and running in time for this fall and have discovered I might be in trouble for a safely operating stove. I did not take into consideration that the flue take off is at the back instead of where the Englander was on the top. This will add a third 90 in the 30 ft run, the first 90 will have a 40inch run to the second 90 that will exit through the concrete foundation 3ft to the third 90. That run is 25-30ft of exterior flue. I can't see an option of adding some 45's to reduced sluggish draft. I guess my posting is for advice... or will I be OK with that much flue run? or will adding a barometric Draft/damper aide in operation?


With that much height you'll be fine with an extra 90...but I would still try to avoid it if possible...use 2 45s instead of 2 90s. Put one 45 at the furnace...run up to the height of the chimney breech, then another 45. That way the only 90 will be at the bottom of the chimney. If you don't have the room to pull that off, meh, don't sweat it, should be OK with 90s (better with 45s though, just to be clear)
And I would still install a baro damper...with that much chimney height you'll have crazy high draft...at least when its windy, if not all the time.


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## Marine5068 (Jun 7, 2018)

Jeff Lary said:


> They are not cheap but good stuff never is. There are many that may fit the bill for you. You can go to ********** they are a good source of stove information. Many threads many more opinions take each one with a big ole grain of salt do your research you'll be fine.


Blaze King King is $3500...WOW


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## Marine5068 (Jun 7, 2018)

CaseyForrest said:


> Any stove will burn green wood. But you'll be battling creosote and if you get an EPA stove, you wont benefit from the technology. I notice a stark difference between 1 year seasoned wood and 2 year seasoned wood in the heat output compared to air input and length of burn.
> 
> We have a Hearthstone Heritage 8022 and a Jotul Rockland 550 in the fireplace.


Exactly.
Never burn green wood, you risk chimney fires that can burn down the house killing you and the family.
Plus when you're burning you're wasting all the heat. The stored wood energy is used to get the water out of the splits and goes up the chimney instead of into the house as heat.
Just cut wood to use two years ahead. It's just as easy as cutting for next year, you just need to get double the wood when you start.


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## brenndatomu (Jun 7, 2018)

Marine5068 said:


> Exactly.
> Never burn green wood, you risk chimney fires that can burn down the house killing you and the family.
> Plus when you're burning you're wasting all the heat. The stored wood energy is used to get the water out of the splits and goes up the chimney instead of into the house as heat.
> Just cut wood to use two years ahead. It's just as easy as cutting for next year, you just need to get double the wood when you start.


Or even better, when time allows and the opportunity presents itself, get enough stocked up to be 3 years ahead...you'll never have a "sizzler" again, even Oak.


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## Marine5068 (Jun 7, 2018)

brenndatomu said:


> Or even better, when time allows and the opportunity presents itself, get enough stocked up to be 3 years ahead...you'll never have a "sizzler" again, even Oak.


Agreed. 3 years ahead(or more) is best.
I had some Red Oak seasoning for two years and it still sizzled a bit when burned. I was surprised, but not now.
Oak is a pain in the butt that way.
I even have a few Maple splits sizzle from time to time and I season them for 1-2 years (12-24 months).


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## Nickatnite (Feb 27, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> With that much height you'll be fine with an extra 90...but I would still try to avoid it if possible...use 2 45s instead of 2 90s. Put one 45 at the furnace...run up to the height of the chimney breech, then another 45. That way the only 90 will be at the bottom of the chimney. If you don't have the room to pull that off, meh, don't sweat it, should be OK with 90s (better with 45s though, just to be clear)
> And I would still install a baro damper...with that much chimney height you'll have crazy high draft...at least when its windy, if not all the time.




So winter is getting closer to it's end. All that you told me about the Ashley 1440E and U.S Stove came true. What a pile of junk! Firebox cracked in multiple places, would not stop over firing and I could not control it even with drafts. So I looked more into the Kuuma and spoke with Dale on many occasions and jump right into the Kuuma family.

I have a Vapor Fire 100 on the way in about a week. Done screwing around.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 28, 2019)

Nickatnite said:


> So I looked more into the Kuuma and spoke with Dale on many occasions and jump right into the Kuuma family.
> 
> I have a Vapor Fire 100 on the way in about a week. Done screwing around.


Congrats man! Good job getting in under the wire for the price increase!
BTW...you notice my updated sig line?


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## johnnylabguy (Mar 2, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Congrats man! Good job getting in under the wire for the price increase!
> BTW...you notice my updated sig line?



Brenndatomu why did you get rid of your Tundra? Was it giving u problems? Or did the lure of the Kuuma overwhelm you? I must admit I’m tempted by them and their long burn times and fire regulation.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 7, 2019)

johnnylabguy said:


> Or did the lure of the Kuuma overwhelm you?


Pretty much...


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## Nickatnite (Mar 9, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Pretty much...


My first two stoves never came close to the burn times that they were marketed under. They also always left a heavy bed of coals. Had to constantly stir them with very little BTU value in return.

How will the Vapor Fire differ and are you getting the burn times Kuuma engineers are claiming?

Dale is a breath of fresh air in a world where a product is sold with not even so much as a reach around. These folks are knee deep into customer care/satisfaction.

Thank you for any feedback you can give me before I install mine in April.


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## Mustang71 (Mar 9, 2019)

I'm not sure what real world tests they put the furnaces under or what they consider a burn time. I dont think a burn time means constant steady quality heat for 8 hours.

I don't know anything about the kuuma but for that price and claiming to be the best wood furnace I'd think they would be accurate on their burn times. They also take a lot of the operator error out of wood burning.

Did they reccomend what wood to use and split size?

I'm having that issue with my new furnace I split all my wood smaller for my old furnace and I think its reducing my burn times.


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## Nickatnite (Mar 9, 2019)

Mustang71 said:


> I'm not sure what real world tests they put the furnaces under or what they consider a burn time. I dont think a burn time means constant steady quality heat for 8 hours.
> 
> I don't know anything about the kuuma but for that price and claiming to be the best wood furnace I'd think they would be accurate on their burn times. They also take a lot of the operator error out of wood burning.
> 
> ...



I certainly can understand your frustration, heating ones home with a wood furnace is a very physical and exhausting experience. Nevertheless I totally enjoy every aspect except the over stating what the products capabilities are, then struggling to teach every one in the home how to use it.

I am on my 5th stove move in and out of the basement through a bulkhead because of each of the furnace manufacture has steered me wrong. It has been quite costly and time consuming. The wife has nearly reached the end of her rope with my obsession to burn. The "Vapor Fire" is my last opportunity.

I certainly am hoping this next furnace "Vapor Fire" is everything Kumma claims.

Dale has told me directly as he does with every customer that it can be fed with 20" wood between 18 - 28 % moisture content. Each species of wood will obviously produce it's own BTU value. If I am not mistaken I believe it is the trees with tight fiber strands perform better.


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## Ryan'smilling (Mar 9, 2019)

I loaded my Kuuma at 11pm last night. Didn't fill it all the way since it was in the 20s overnight. The fan was still coming on most of the morning. Added a little more wood at 10:30 this morning. 

I think the thing that helps the Kuuma give even heat is that at the end of the burn cycle, the computer opens the draft to help get heat from the coals. Yes, it'd be even more effective with a way to agitate the coals and bring them forward towards the air vents, but that'd be a much more complicated system.

Now, I will say that the experience Dale relayed about filling the furnace at 5pm and not adding wood again until 10am (17 hours later) has not been my experience. I think that's perhaps because they only heat their shop to 45-50 degrees and pretty much only run the furnace on low. It takes a lot more heat to bring my house to 70+ degrees, so at least thus far I've been running at medium or higher overnight.


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## Nickatnite (Mar 9, 2019)

Ryan'smilling said:


> I loaded my Kuuma at 11pm last night. Didn't fill it all the way since it was in the 20s overnight. The fan was still coming on most of the morning. Added a little more wood at 10:30 this morning.
> 
> I think the thing that helps the Kuuma give even heat is that at the end of the burn cycle, the computer opens the draft to help get heat from the coals. Yes, it'd be even more effective with a way to agitate the coals and bring them forward towards the air vents, but that'd be a much more complicated system.
> 
> Now, I will say that the experience Dale relayed about filling the furnace at 5pm and not adding wood again until 10am (17 hours later) has not been my experience. I think that's perhaps because they only heat their shop to 45-50 degrees and pretty much only run the furnace on low. It takes a lot more heat to bring my house to 70+ degrees, so at least thus far I've been running at medium or higher overnight.



Your comments are encouraging. I would not expect to get 17 hr burn times. That would be one overly engineered furnace.

I will be extremely excited to get 7-8 hr burn times. Work nor sleep would be effected. That right there is my dream furnace. Fingers crossed.


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## blades (Mar 9, 2019)

even though the volume of the load to be burned might be the same - small splits will be consumed faster due to the larger exposed area created by the increased number of smaller splits to match large splits volume wise.


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## Nickatnite (Mar 9, 2019)

Ryan'smilling said:


> I loaded my Kuuma at 11pm last night. Didn't fill it all the way since it was in the 20s overnight. The fan was still coming on most of the morning. Added a little more wood at 10:30 this morning.
> 
> I think the thing that helps the Kuuma give even heat is that at the end of the burn cycle, the computer opens the draft to help get heat from the coals. Yes, it'd be even more effective with a way to agitate the coals and bring them forward towards the air vents, but that'd be a much more complicated system.
> 
> Now, I will say that the experience Dale relayed about filling the furnace at 5pm and not adding wood again until 10am (17 hours later) has not been my experience. I think that's perhaps because they only heat their shop to 45-50 degrees and pretty much only run the furnace on low. It takes a lot more heat to bring my house to 70+ degrees, so at least thus far I've been running at medium or higher overnight.





Ryan'smilling said:


> I loaded my Kuuma at 11pm last night. Didn't fill it all the way since it was in the 20s overnight. The fan was still coming on most of the morning. Added a little more wood at 10:30 this morning.
> 
> I think the thing that helps the Kuuma give even heat is that at the end of the burn cycle, the computer opens the draft to help get heat from the coals. Yes, it'd be even more effective with a way to agitate the coals and bring them forward towards the air vents, but that'd be a much more complicated system.
> 
> Now, I will say that the experience Dale relayed about filling the furnace at 5pm and not adding wood again until 10am (17 hours later) has not been my experience. I think that's perhaps because they only heat their shop to 45-50 degrees and pretty much only run the furnace on low. It takes a lot more heat to bring my house to 70+ degrees, so at least thus far I've been running at medium or higher overnight.




This is what my current furnace looks like after a single season of burning. This thing over fired the first time I lit it, could not control it even with drafts fully closed and flue managed.

It took many burns to just get it to a manageable burn. Friggin wife nearly lost her mind with it. Don't blame her... DANGEROUS!


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 9, 2019)

Nickatnite said:


> How will the Vapor Fire differ and are you getting the burn times Kuuma engineers are claiming?
> Dale is a breath of fresh air in a world where a product is sold with not even so much as a reach around. These folks are knee deep into customer care/satisfaction.



I'm finishing up my 5th winter of using my Kuuma VF100. In a single word, a resounding yes.

When I was first doing my research I immediately noticed the huge differences in rated BTU output of most everything on the market vs the Kuuma's. It was even worse back when I was looking, as you had Caddy's claiming MUCH higher numbers than they do now after they were tested to a standard. (read post #16 and on down -HERE-). I was pretty sure the only ones being truly honest about their real world output was Lamppa. They had the latest EPA tests to show for it.

When I called and talked to Daryl (the owner) and explained the style house I have (log cabin w/ loft) and how much volume I'd be heating (~32,000 CF), his response was, "good thing it's not any bigger" and he also mentioned how I may have to use some LP when it gets cold if the Kuuma can't do it solo. He never tried blowing steam up my a$$. The past three seasons, when we are home, 99.8% of my BTU's have come from wood. We average less than $5 per heating season in LP usage, based on total number of minutes the LP furnace runs, when we are home. Total BTU percentage from wood varies from 96%-98%, as it depends on how many weekends we are away during the winter.

As far as burn time, yes, they are what they are said to be. Solid fuel heaters will always have a bell shaped ramp up/down period with a time frame in between of maximum output. The automatic computer controlled damper of the Kuuma helps flatten that curve out though. Can load for as little as 2-3 hours of low heat output (~15lbs) or as much as 18-20 hours of low heat output (~95lbs). I've done 18-20 hour loadings twice this winter when I packed the firebox full of Black Locust and left for the weekend. The sole purpose was to keep the LP furnace run time to a minimum while we were gone. On max burn, I find it impossible to get any less than 9 hour burn times out of it with a full firebox. Keep in mind, a typical full firebox of well seasoned, normal sized red oak splits is around 65-75lbs. Those 95lb loads were of some very large splits of black locust (like 15lb splits).

Burn times and how the Kuuma burns the wood and extracts heat from the wood has never been an issue. What I have optimized for our house is to more effectively get those BTU's produced into the house. I believe I am done experimenting now, after only 5 winters.  I made changes/improvements to the return air and supply air. I added a speed controller to my blower which speeds up and slows down based on plenum temps. This means my plenum temps are always being kept at the max and my blower NEVER shuts off during a burn, only when I have hardly any visible embers left at all will the blower finally shut off at ~96°. This speed controller also allowed me to really slow my blower down, our house heats MUCH better with real slow blower speeds (lower volumes of hotter air). Also did a few other things as well.

Here it is after my tweaks. BTW, after 5 seasons of burning too.


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## Mustang71 (Mar 9, 2019)

Nickatnite said:


> Your comments are encouraging. I would not expect to get 17 hr burn times. That would be one overly engineered furnace.
> 
> I will be extremely excited to get 7-8 hr burn times. Work nor sleep would be effected. That right there is my dream furnace. Fingers crossed.



If you have tried several furnaces then you know that the heat and burn time will be much different when it's based on the outside temp. Switching from a non EPA furnace to an EPA furnace I have noticed a big difference but I'm still working on those 6 to 8 hours of solid heat output. Yea it still puts out heat once the secondary burn is done but not the same heat. There seem to be a lot of positives to it. I hope you are very happy with your new furnace and it lives up to your expectations because that is a steep price you will have paid. Even if mine has not lived up to my expectations yet, I am producing less emissions as well as no crazy swings in heat and it's much safer. The daka started getting scary I'd load some wood in and 10 min later smell burning paint and I'd go check it out, the flue pipe would be 500 plus. It happened a couple times. If I wasnt home and around I'd have no house.


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 9, 2019)

Nickatnite said:


> Your comments are encouraging. I would not expect to get 17 hr burn times. That would be one overly engineered furnace.
> 
> I will be extremely excited to get 7-8 hr burn times. Work nor sleep would be effected. That right there is my dream furnace. Fingers crossed.



You will be able to work and sleep longer than those 7-8 hours. Jeez, I would have been extremely pi$$ed off if all I saw was 7-8 hours. During ALL 5 winters my loads were as follows; night load was from 10pm to 7:30am (9.5 hours) and morning load was 7:30am to 5pm (9.5 hours). How large the loads were depended on how cold it was outside. They varied from 30 to 60lbs. I then did a small partial load for those 5 hours in between, again, size of load depended on outside temp. This loading schedule heated the house the WHOLE winter for 5 winters, except the two nights this winter I mention below. I know of a guy who did two 12 hour loads most of the winter in his VF100, at least last I heard he did. @brenndatomu

We did have a couple nights of -35+°F temps in which I purposely did four smaller ~4-5 hour loads in place of the two larger 9.5 loads, as I'm able to burn more wood overall per day (which equals more BTUS in the house) when doing numerous small loads.



The basement temp above is the temp inside my blower box of my wood furnace. It's the temp of my return air being sent through the furnace to be heated.

Over the years I've figured out I can load my furnace based on looking at the day's HDD. When it's warmer I shoot for ~2lbs/HDD. When colder it's more like 2.5 - 2.75lbs/HDD. Those real cold -35°+ days, I was burning 210lbs a day, which is about as much wood as it could possibly consume in a day. If it could consume more I would have burned more.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 10, 2019)

JRHAWK9 said:


> I know of a guy who did two 12 hour loads most of the winter in his VF100, at least last I heard he did. @brenndatomu


Yup, that has been my experience...1 to 2 loads per day...mostly 2. Varying load size and load timing to weather, and house temp.
The only time I went to 3 loads per day was when we had a week of real cold weather (I think many of us experienced that system) and it was at or below 0* F for 3-4 days straight. I didn't keep track of my load sizes like @JRHAWK9 does, but I don't think I ever used more than 150# in one day...and I never did set the computer anymore than medium...set on low 98% of the winter.
And we have not supplemented with fossil fuel either...100% wood...house stays between 70-73...71-73 mainly.
Its nice being able to load and go most of the time too...usually have enough coals for a matchless relight...some times I will throw an unlit match on the coals, just to get active flame even faster...mainly to limit "start up" smoking as much as possible.
The reason for the unlit match is it sparks up fast once dropped on the hot coals...gets things going pretty quick...but if I light the match, then drop it in, half the time it goes out before doing its job.


Nickatnite said:


> I am on my 5th stove move in and out of the basement through a bulkhead because of each of the furnace manufacture has steered me wrong. It has been quite costly and time consuming. The wife has nearly reached the end of her rope with my obsession to burn. The "Vapor Fire" is my last opportunity.


I know how ya feel, I have been through _a few_ different wood heaters too...started out with a "free" Wondercoal circulator stove, then went to a Yukon Big Jack add-on furnace. Then came the Yukon Husky wood/coal/oil furnace (its technically still hooked up...slated to be gone this summer) Then I tried a Drolet Tundra (liked that one pretty well after some aftermarket control mods)
Then I came across a cheap Kuuma Vaporfire VF200 (the smaller one) and just had to try it out, even though is was likely to be too small for our house. It impressed me once I got everything set up right on it...but only ran it one winter because all my wood ~20 cords is cut to 22"...VF200 takes 16-18" max...one winter of cutting 6" off everything was enough! So it went down the road. Then Dale at Lamppa told me of a VF100 that was only used part of 1 winter and was for sale due to not being big enough for the house it was in...I ended up buying that one...oh and I forgot, my VF200 sold thanks to Dale telling someone that called in looking for a used one about mine being for sale...never even advertised it.
In this same time frame I also installed a Vogelzang stove in the living room fireplace...and then after a couple winters I found a Drolet 1400i insert stove that replaced the VZ (the VZ was a decent stove, just a bit small, and I wanted an insert style stove so I could service the blower without pulling the whole stove out)
The saving grace for me in all this is that I have a basement garage, so all this moving in-n-out has been pretty easy compared to having to deal with stairs...that said...I think my wife is about done with all my changeouts for a while too...last fall she said this better be the last one for a while (referring to the Vf100)...I just grinned and said "yup...for this year" 
It will be the last though...pretty happy with it...about the only thing I miss on any of the past furnaces is the window in the door of the Tundra...and also the super easy heat exchanger cleaning procedure on the Tundra (Caddy and Max Caddy are the same too)
Bottom line @Nickatnite , you will not regret your purchase...I have only ever heard of 2 people that did, both were trying to heat big old leaky house that were just too much heating load for the Kuuma (and probably any modern forced air wood furnace) I know the one guy went to an OWB, the other I think just went back "payin the man" for gas heat. 

Well...that turned into a novel!


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## brenndatomu (Mar 10, 2019)

Nickatnite said:


> Dale has told me directly as he does with every customer that it can be fed with 20" wood between 18 - 28 % moisture content.


Anything 22" and under will fit...20" is optimal. I have wedged a 24" piece in, but you will only get 1 or 2 smaller pieces in if they are that long.
They will burn 28% MC stuff...but it cuts down on the heat output noticeably...stick to 20% and below for best performance.


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## MrPelletBurner (Mar 10, 2019)

Nickatnite said:


> I certainly can understand your frustration, heating ones home with a wood furnace is a very physical and exhausting experience. Nevertheless I totally enjoy every aspect except the over stating what the products capabilities are, then struggling to teach every one in the home how to use it.
> 
> I am on my 5th stove move in and out of the basement through a bulkhead because of each of the furnace manufacture has steered me wrong. It has been quite costly and time consuming. The wife has nearly reached the end of her rope with my obsession to burn. The "Vapor Fire" is my last opportunity.
> 
> ...



When will the unit arrive? Will be watching this thread to see how it all works out.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 10, 2019)

Nickatnite said:


> I have a Vapor Fire 100 on the way in about a week.


Surprised you can get one that fast...they are often a few months behind during the heating season...


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## Deleted member 150358 (Mar 10, 2019)

Nickatnite said:


> This is what my current furnace looks like after a single season of burning. This thing over fired the first time I lit it, could not control it even with drafts fully closed and flue managed.
> 
> It took many burns to just get it to a manageable burn. Friggin wife nearly lost her mind with it. Don't blame her... DANGEROUS!


Just wow! What a POS!


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## MrPelletBurner (Mar 10, 2019)

brenndatomu said:


> Surprised you can get one that fast...they are often a few months behind during the heating season...



Must of missed that post, got caught up looking at the photo of the rocket ship. It’s all fancy and tight m, then you see the uhall cardboard [emoji12]


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## brenndatomu (Mar 10, 2019)

MrPelletBurner said:


> Must of missed that post, got caught up looking at the photo of the rocket ship. It’s all fancy and tight m, then you see the uhall cardboard [emoji12]


You must be referring to the SpaceHawk100 © ?


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 10, 2019)

MrPelletBurner said:


> Must of missed that post, got caught up looking at the photo of the rocket ship. It’s all fancy and tight m, then you see the uhall cardboard [emoji12]




Get it straight mister...it's Home Depot cardboard!


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## sbhooper (Mar 11, 2019)

A number of years ago, I posted some pics of my Vogelzang 2500 wood furnace. My furnace is in the basement (ground level here). I bring the wood straight in and pile it close to the furnace. The guy that built this house, did it with the idea of putting in a wood furnace, so all that we had to do was to finish the intended project. The furnace has two heat ducts on the top and it was easy to attach them into the existing duct work for the whole house. We burn LOTS of wood to keep our 2300 sqft., two-story house heated. Our propane has kicked on four or five times for the whole winter. 

I decided to look into a replacement, after this one quits serving. At the time last year that I was looking, Volgelzang had quit with the 2500, due to epa rules. Now, I noticed that they are again selling them, only with epa approval. I just wonder if the reconfiguration will make them a bit more efficient and cut down my wood usage a bit? I am real satisfied with the furnace, but could always use a bit more efficiency.


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## JRHAWK9 (Mar 11, 2019)

sbhooper said:


> A number of years ago, I posted some pics of my Vogelzang 2500 wood furnace. My furnace is in the basement (ground level here). I bring the wood straight in and pile it close to the furnace. The guy that built this house, did it with the idea of putting in a wood furnace, so all that we had to do was to finish the intended project. The furnace has two heat ducts on the top and it was easy to attach them into the existing duct work for the whole house. We burn LOTS of wood to keep our 2300 sqft., two-story house heated. Our propane has kicked on four or five times for the whole winter.
> 
> I decided to look into a replacement, after this one quits serving. At the time last year that I was looking, Volgelzang had quit with the 2500, due to epa rules. Now, I noticed that they are again selling them, only with epa approval. I just wonder if the reconfiguration will make them a bit more efficient and cut down my wood usage a bit? I am real satisfied with the furnace, but could always use a bit more efficiency.



Isn't the Vogelzang 2500 the same thing as a Hotblast?


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## sbhooper (Mar 12, 2019)

They are definitely similar, but the Hotblasts that I have looked at, seem like they are not built as well as the Norsman that I have. They look pretty cheap, to me.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 13, 2019)

sbhooper said:


> A number of years ago, I posted some pics of my Vogelzang 2500 wood furnace. My furnace is in the basement (ground level here). I bring the wood straight in and pile it close to the furnace. The guy that built this house, did it with the idea of putting in a wood furnace, so all that we had to do was to finish the intended project. The furnace has two heat ducts on the top and it was easy to attach them into the existing duct work for the whole house. We burn LOTS of wood to keep our 2300 sqft., two-story house heated. Our propane has kicked on four or five times for the whole winter.
> 
> I decided to look into a replacement, after this one quits serving. At the time last year that I was looking, Volgelzang had quit with the 2500, due to epa rules. Now, I noticed that they are again selling them, only with epa approval. I just wonder if the reconfiguration will make them a bit more efficient and cut down my wood usage a bit? I am real satisfied with the furnace, but could always use a bit more efficiency.


So far all the el-cheapo epa wood furnaces have been a disaster. The Tundra II is the cheapest one that seems to work.


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## Mustang71 (Mar 13, 2019)

That's y I went with the englander. Its modeled after a decent stove and has actually secondary burn tubes.

I was looking at the hotblast online and it seems like they just allow air to enter into the top of the fire box and that's the secondary burn.

The ashley/clayton wood furnace looks a lot like the tundra but it's a manual control unlike the tundra. I read a lot of things about it saying it doesn't work that great.


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## brenndatomu (Sep 20, 2020)

Nickatnite said:


> I have a Vapor Fire 100 on the way in about a week. Done screwing around.


Dead thread revival!
So @Nickatnite gets a new VF100 and nobody ever hears from him again?! Geez man, at least come back and tell us what you think!


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