# What's your favorite hunting rifle??



## Timberhauler

For me it depends on where I'm at.I have a custom built Remington M700 30/06 that seems to follow me wherever I go,and I guess it's one of the most accurate rifles I've ever owned..With the Federal trophy bonded bear claw bullets,it shoots 1/2 inch four shot groups at 100 yards...I also do alot of hunting down in the lower part of this state on a soybean farm...300 yard shots are about average...I have the exact same rifle mentioned above in a 300 win.mag....It's just as accurate,but packs a punch on the shoulder which is why I seem to favor the 06 these days..What are your picks?


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## HEAVY FUEL

*TIKKA 25-06 26 inch heavy barrel*

This is my all around shooting rifle. I wouldn't recommend it for carrying around, but if you are shooting crows or prairie dogs this thing will shoot long and flat without much winddrift. I stay between 75 to 100 grain bullets. I do use a shoulder pad when shooting for more than a couple hours with the 100 grain bullets. My other rifle is a Savage 17hrm. These things are a riot and make you feel like a sniper, unless its windy out then you can forget it. Happy hunting.


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## Timberhauler

I actually traded my 25/06 for that 300 winmag....I wished I hadn't it was a superb rifle..I plan to buy another someday.


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## hanniedog

My brother had a 700BDL Varmint Special when we were kids. It was a 22/250 and would shread groudhogs with a 52 grain Speer hollowpoint. I had a 222 shooting same bullit very effective but not near the damage done by the22/250. As an all around varmint round the 22/250 has to be one of the best. In comparison does a 7mm kick like 30/06 or the 25/06. Saw a 250 lb. man shoot a 7mm and it really rocked him.


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## WadePatton

My number one, go-to, under-any-conditions rifle is a Browning A-bolt in 30-06, synthetic with my own trigger mods. Three shots in .75 or less with 165 Hornadys or 165 Nosler Partitions over 54g of 414.

My favorite handling and best looking rifle, is a Remington Mountain Rifle (700) in .280. I refinished it with linseed oil and accurized it. It's a featherweight with super classic lines and decent walnut. Usually load it with Nosler 140 BT's.

My bruiser is a Ruger No. 1 Tropical in 375H&H. It's real purty and shoots great, but is like toting an armload of firewood around--a tad heavy. I'd love to have a turn-bolt 375. Probably will someday.

"Blooded" my 1894 Marlin (44mag) this past season with a little buck. That gun needs some more work. Just got it back together with new ejector and finish, but have some other issues to work on.

Have another handful of rifles in various states of repair, but that is my top three. The 44 isn't on the "fave" list yet.

Just got a 17HMR, but don't have much trigger time on it yet. I got mom the NEF version. I bought the Savage with Accutrigger.

Have a Bowen Nimrod .45 Colt that'll take a deer out someday. Working on getting a holster to fit it.

...don't get me talking about guns, or trucks, or fishing, or saws...


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## HEAVY FUEL

I would have gotten a 22/250 but EVERYONE in my group has one already. The 25/06 with 100 grain seems to do a lot better when we get out 400 plus yards but gets hot way faster. Now I need an AR-15 .223!!!! Maybe I can pick one up on the way home from getting the Dolmar 7900!!!! GIMMIE, GIMMIE, I NEED, I NEED!!!!!!!!!


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## windthrown

*Call me an old timer...*

I like my brother's Marlin 30-30 lever action. Lighter than a 30.06, and a lot easier on my shoulder than my British .303 Enfield. Easy to use and shoot. Good for deer, cougar and medium size game around here.


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## windthrown

*.223?*



jonseredsjonny said:


> I would have gotten a 22/250 but EVERYONE in my group has one already. The 25/06 with 100 grain seems to do a lot better when we get out 400 plus yards but gets hot way faster. Now I need an AR-15 .223!!!! Maybe I can pick one up on the way home from getting the Dolmar 7900!!!! GIMMIE, GIMMIE, I NEED, I NEED!!!!!!!!!



An AR-15 .223? You will need the D-ring conversion to get it to fire right. I got it from my brother becasue it was not ejecting right. Looked online and found the solution from a guy that developed the D ring for the LA police department. Works like a champ now.


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## rahtreelimbs

*Tough One!!!*

That is a tough one.........as I have a place for every rifle!!!

*1*
I have a Savage 99 (circa 1951) that belonged to my grandfather. My grandfather, my father and I all took our first deer with that rifle.

*2*
Winchester Model 70 Classic Stainless in .270 Win........real tackdriver!

*3*
Ruger No.1 in .300 Win. Mag. Also real accurate..........single shots ajust plain cool!

*4*
Ruger 77 Compact in .308 Win........Real light and handy!

*5*
While not a rifle.........Mossberg 500 Synthetic Slug Gun


The .270......Winchester Model 70 Classic Stainless







.300 Win mag......Ruger No.1


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## Korn

It would have to be my old savage model 112 in 22-250. My favorite groundhog gun.


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## okietreedude1

Ive got a remington sendero in 7mm mag. With handloads, it will put 3 shots in 1 hole. It would probably do the same w/ more shots, but thats about the most i take to make sure the scope is still straight.

I had the trigger adjusted to 2#.

W/ the bipod on front, I feel like a sniper on the range.


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## 361kid

I'd have to say my ruger m77 .300 mag LH. Haven't had much trigger time with it yet but it is one helluva fun gun to shoot.


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## 046

custom Weatherby .270 currently wearing a 6x24 elite mildot scope. plain jane 4x unertl is going back on soon.


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## Timberhauler

I've also got a Browning A-bolt stalker in a 308.....I've also slashed a few deer with that one....It's a pleasure to shoot as well..


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## rahtreelimbs

I tried a Tikka T3 the other day..........nice rifle with an action as smooth as butter!!!


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## TimberPig

hanniedog said:


> In comparison does a 7mm kick like 30/06 or the 25/06. Saw a 250 lb. man shoot a 7mm and it really rocked him.



Depends upon the 7mm. Short action cartridges like 7mm-08 and 7X57 are lighter, similar to a .25-06, .280's and .284's are slightly harder kicking, but still a bit lighter than a .30-06, then 7mm Remington or Weatherby magnums are a hair stiffer kicking than a .30-06, while larger 7mm mags like the STW or Ultra Mag are a fair bit stiffer depending upon the load.

As to my personal fave, that would have to be my Ruger M77 .30-06. Currently does everything I need it to, although I could drop down to a .25-06 for a deer gun, and still have plenty of power and a better trajectory for longer shots. A .338 Winchester mag, or a .340 Weatherby mag would be a nice moose/elk gun, especially since there's no shortage of grizzlies around here, especially in the best areas for these moose and elk. The .30-06 will do all of it, but the others will do it a little better, and who doesn't want a few more guns to play with :hmm3grin2orange:


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## rahtreelimbs

TimberPig said:


> and who doesn't want a few more guns to play with :hmm3grin2orange:





Just like saws!!!


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## NYH1

If I hunt in the woods where my shots will be under 100 yards I take my Marlin 336CS in 35 rem. If I'm hunting more open area where I might have take longer shots I use my Remington 700 Classic in 280 Rem.


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## ASEMASTER

*sako*

sako finnwolf 308 almost like new, mini14 223. highly modified by myself it drives tacks. tc 45 mag with trigger job.

guns like saws ,you don't collect them you just seem to aquire them.


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## Timberhauler

NYH1 said:


> If I hunt in the woods where my shots will be under 100 yards I take my Marlin 336CS in 35 rem. If I'm hunting more open area where I might have take longer shots I use my Remington 700 Classic in 280 Rem.



I listed my favorites that I use most of the time....I'm not sure how many rifles I am up to now.....But there is another one of my all time favorites...That .35 Rem is a awesome cartridge...I have used it on everything from deer,wild boar,and black bear.......It pack a helluva recoil though...Mine is a Marlin,and it has a 20 inch barrell,so there is not much weight to soak up recoil...I believe it kicks harder than my 30/06,but not quite as hard as my .300 mag..There is no recoil pad at all,so it hurts.


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## HEAVY FUEL

I tend to stay under 30 cal because I flinch so bad it isn't funny.


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## sheldon

i have a ruger m77rs in 7mm mag. that i have had for close to 20 years.it has taken mule deer. whitetail deer, elk. moose,and even a few coyotes that will try to lure the dogs out to the field. it works well for all big game here in alberta.most deer taken around home are at whitetails that can cross a quarter section in very few seconds and i like the ruger because of it's speed and flat shooting abilities. i had a 308 win. when i was a young lad, and even an old 303 british that kicked like a mule, but i'll keep the ruger forever.


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## treebogan

*Heres my three*

My favorite is a Brno ZKK601,Kreiger tube,Scmitt and Bender scope in .308win.Its at home in NZ and my primary rifle there,i've had it since I was 17,the first barrel I wore out,the first scope got broken in a motor bike accident.

Second is an old Ruger Mini 14 fitted with a reflex suppressor,silenced rifles don;t require special licences in NZ so there are many.Its great for pest control and shooting small Deer like Fallow.It wears a Leupold 4-12 X40 and I fire mainly ex\millitary ammo through it for economy.

Third is my trusty winchester 1892 in 44/40 cal,made in 1912 I'm the rifles second owner!Its great for wild pigs/goats/rabbits and I've felled a few Red Deer with it and even an unlucky Chamois.44/40 is a pretty good brush round and most of my shots are within 50yard


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## Tree Slayer

treebogan said:


> My favorite is a Brno ZKK601,Kreiger tube,Scmitt and Bender scope in .308win.Its at home in NZ and my primary rifle there,i've had it since I was 17,the first barrel I wore out,the first scope got broken in a motor bike accident.
> 
> Second is an old Ruger Mini 14 fitted with a reflex suppressor,silenced rifles don;t require special licences in NZ so there are many.Its great for pest control and shooting small Deer like Fallow.It wears a Leupold 4-12 X40 and I fire mainly ex\millitary ammo through it for economy.
> 
> The mini 14 sounds like a neat gun with a suppressor on it. For deer in the part of Pa I live in we have to use shotguns so its a Remington 870Sp with a 3-9 scope and for Pa. bear its my trusty Remington 760 in 30-06. for Elk in Co. I use a 300. weatherby that my dad got for me for my 21st birthday.


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## musch

I've got a Browning A-Bolt in 30-06. Its a black barrel, composite stock, ugly to most. It also has a nice Leupold VXIII scope 10x on it, and every single deer I've shot so far has been 1 shot- 1 kill. Cant argue with that much.

I did also pick up an old used Winchester 30-30 lever action, accurate (for me) out to 100 yards with iron sights. I'm usin it on drives and for swamps, but haven't had the chance to kill anything with it yet. 

I know that plenty of folks have had pretty good luck with 'em over the years though, so I'm looking forward to taking my 1st deer with it.


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## 5555555

Until about 6 years ago it used ot be a Browning SS 300 win mag wit a boss. Very accurate with handloads. Since then, it's been a 90 lb Bowtech bow!


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## rb_in_va

windthrown said:


> I like my brother's Marlin 30-30 lever action. Lighter than a 30.06, and a lot easier on my shoulder than my British .303 Enfield. Easy to use and shoot. Good for deer, cougar and medium size game around here.



+1

My only actual rifle is a Marlin 30.30. Sweet little rifle, and great for the woods in the PNW where I used to use it. Although my dad now thinks its his rifle. That's ok by me though. He maintains all his stuff very well.


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## treebogan

*rb in va*

30/30 is a fine calibre,I beleive it has comprable energy figures to a 454 Cashull and many folk carried those in revolver form for Bear when I worked in AK.Back home in NZ loads of people have 30/30's for Deer/Pigs and they  are fine for about 150 yards.I hunt the Bush with a 44/40 thats 85 years old mate and it kills em dead.


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## Industry

When I had it my favorite was my Weatherby Vanguard Syn. in .270. Now it's the Mauser Gew98 that my grandfather gave me. shoots well, .30-06 has plenty of knockdown for deer. just a fun gun to shoot, and I love owning a historic rifle.


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## Marco

This past fall it was a Rem. 141 .35 pump, I like that it doesn't leave schrapnel trails in my venison. I find I don't have to trail much either. The pump action is easier for me to handle than a lever, so I was really glad when my gun collecting neighbor found one that somebody drilled and tapped, thus screwing up it's collector value.


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## NYH1

Timberhauler said:


> I listed my favorites that I use most of the time....I'm not sure how many rifles I am up to now.....But there is another one of my all time favorites...That .35 Rem is a awesome cartridge...I have used it on everything from deer,wild boar,and black bear.......It pack a helluva recoil though...Mine is a Marlin,and it has a 20 inch barrell,so there is not much weight to soak up recoil...I believe it kicks harder than my 30/06,but not quite as hard as my .300 mag..There is no recoil pad at all,so it hurts.


What type of ammo are you shooting, Buffalo Bore Ammo or something? To me the 35 Rem. is very pleasant to shoot. I shoot 200 gr. Remington Core-Lokt ammo............they're white tail poison


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## Austin1

Timberhauler said:


> For me it depends on where I'm at.I have a custom built Remington M700 30/06 that seems to follow me wherever I go,and I guess it's one of the most accurate rifles I've ever owned..With the Federal trophy bonded bear claw bullets,it shoots 1/2 inch four shot groups at 100 yards...I also do alot of hunting down in the lower part of this state on a soybean farm...300 yard shots are about average...I have the exact same rifle mentioned above in a 300 win.mag....It's just as accurate,but packs a punch on the shoulder which is why I seem to favor the 06 these days..What are your picks?


Ah an easy question My BRNO 602 in 375h&h. I know I am over gunned but it always shoots so good! I can cover three shot's with a dime at 100yds and it will put five in less than 3/4 inch. It is also my lucky rife! By that I mean I will find mule deer were only whitetail should be. Elk Right on the road at my friends ranch. I also have a Rem 700 in 300win That is a great rifle and a real good shooter.Gee this turned out to be a hard Question! I also like my old sporterised .303 brings back boy hood memories! I could go on and on as I have at least 15 rifle I hunt with not to mention the Varmint only ones!Good post


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## begleytree

gotta be a lot of IFs

if I'm out playing, or shooting groundhogs, ruger 10/22 bull barrel
wanna play sniper? ruger 10/22 in 17 bull bbl 6-18 scope
deer? never found anything with more knock down than my knight 50 cal shooting 300gr sabots shoved out by 150gr of pyrodex, redfield 3-9x40
groundhogs? 22-250 (I like the 22lr better, makes them self burying  )
snakes? AK-47 in 410ga
want loud? H&K G3 308
accurate but prissy? AR-15M4
just want to blast? I have 7 AKs in 3 diff calibers not counting the 410 shotgun
big boom? shoot a 7.62x54R for fun.
pistol? model 1911 45 cal

thats enough for now. have many, many, many more.
-Ralph


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## jaytee

For crows and wayward kitty's I prefer my Rem. 700 ADL in .222 cal. That thing is a hoot to shoot and will drive toothpicks out to 'bout 200 yards. For deer, its prolly my wifes Ruger M77 in .260 Rem. Nice little gun and round with hardly any kick at all. Sometimes I'll use my Ruger 77 in .280 but I just dont care much for recoil anymore so it usualy stays in the safe. Wife's also got a .280 in a Remington 700 Classic. Its a good'un too!


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## aggiewoodbutchr

begleytree said:


> gotta be a lot of IFs
> 
> if I'm out playing, or shooting groundhogs, ruger 10/22 bull barrel
> wanna play sniper? ruger 10/22 in 17 bull bbl 6-18 scope
> deer? never found anything with more knock down than my knight 50 cal shooting 300gr sabots shoved out by 150gr of pyrodex, redfield 3-9x40
> groundhogs? 22-250 (I like the 22lr better, makes them self burying  )
> snakes? AK-47 in 410ga
> want loud? H&K G3 308
> accurate but prissy? AR-15M4
> just want to blast? I have 7 AKs in 3 diff calibers not counting the 410 shotgun
> big boom? shoot a 7.62x54R for fun.
> pistol? model 1911 45 cal
> 
> thats enough for now. have many, many, many more.
> -Ralph



That's one hell of a collection. I'd rep you but... out of bullets (haha).

My favorite to just shoot has got to be my Barrett M99 .50 cal followed by my Rock River Varmit A4 AR-15.

For critter killin' and turkey hunting, the AR goes with me.

Deer- Remingtion 700 30-06, oldie but goodie.

Plinking- Browing Buckmark Sporter rifle

Birds/ Clays- Beretta 390, smooth opperator (I know, not a rifle..)

Pistol- Glock, any caliber. Springfield XD and 1911's are nice too.


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## Tree Slayer

*Now were talking*

hey we were talking hunting guns but now your really talking, I also have an Ak47, Arma lite 10a2 in 308. walther g22 and my friend has 2 barret 50s that we shoot at junk cars all the time. ever hear of tanerite big bang.


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## aggiewoodbutchr

Tree Slayer said:


> hey we were talking hunting guns but now your really talking, I also have an Ak47, Arma lite 10a2 in 308. walther g22 and my friend has 2 barret 50s that we shoot at junk cars all the time. ever hear of tanerite big bang.



Tanerite puts a      on my face! Fun stuff!


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## A. Stanton

If I hunted I would buy a Browning 1885 hi-grade 45-70. This sucker would take anything on the continent. CDNN out of Texas was practically giving em away last year. Had gold dohickees--the works!


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## romeo

*If I had only one, 30-30 WINCHESTER*

I have a gun safe loaded to the hilt, my favorite is still my old sadle ring model 94 in 30-30win. Say what you want about it but it has taken more game in its life time (starting with Great Grand Dad and still going strong) than the sum of most of the earlier mentioned in this thread. I got it 27 years ago, with me it spent 15 years on the floor boards, probably 20k shots put through her, and a five year stint chasing bear and lion with hounds.
It still looks good, actuates perfect, and is extremely accurate even though the barrel "should" have been shot by now. I never tried to keep it pretty but I always kept it super clean and oiled. Its retired now, I figure I would save a little life in it for #1 son when he gets old enough.


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## begleytree

A. Stanton said:


> If I hunted I would buy a Browning 1885 hi-grade 45-70. This sucker would take anything on the continent. CDNN out of Texas was practically giving em away last year. Had gold dohickees--the works!



sweet deal, did they have fiber optic thingamabobs too 
-Ralph


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## wdchuck

Well seeing as I'm in a shotgun county, the list is kinda limited, HOWEVER, just as we were finishing lunch today, a woodchuck was ambling along 40yds from the kitchen windows, hmmm..., so being the good daddy that I am, I urned the kids highchairs around so they could watch. Went to get the ready .22rifle, 10x scope( I need all the help I can get), cranked out the winder, and plink, four paws sticking straight up, "try agin daddy", says my daughter, dam thing starts going back where it came from, so I lead it, plink, "try again daddy", head shot, dead shot. 

So, for me, it's a .22 rifle, 
tied for 1st is my .22 pellet gun, quieter.

Actually, never have fired a real rifle.


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## huskydave

I use 30/06 tikka with a simmons aetec scope 1/4" groupings @200yrds best bullets ive tried are reminton scirroco bonded second best hornady light magnums third best winchester failsafes.


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## Austin1

huskydave said:


> I use 30/06 tikka with a simmons aetec scope 1/4" groupings @200yrds best bullets ive tried are reminton scirroco bonded second best hornady light magnums third best winchester failsafes.


Those Tikka's really shoot well and they don't cost a arm&leg for what you get!


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## charlieh

Wow a shooting forum as well as chainsaws, i had never made it this far down the home page yet!

I shoot a tikka T3 varmint barrel in .25-06 shortened to 20.5inches with a T8 reflex sound moderator! one of the few truely great thing health and safety has done for us over here, as technically we now cant be refused one. getting the rifle in the first place is a real PITA, and involves so much paperwork.

The tikka is an awesome rifle will out shot me anyday 1/2 groups are regular using 115g winchester supreme balistic silver tips, although i do have some concearns about the size hole it leaves if it hits bone


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## Tree Slayer

charlieh said:


> getting the rifle in the first place is a real PITA, and involves so much paperwork.


So I guess getting your hands on an ak47 or ar15 are pretty tough. how about a handgun can you own one?


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## rb_in_va

charlieh said:


> getting the rifle in the first place is a real PITA, and involves so much paperwork.



I love the USA! Lets all remember posts like this come time to vote.


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## begleytree

rb_in_va said:


> I love the USA! Lets all remember posts like this come time to vote.



and when we use paypal http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=weapons and this http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/ua/USUA-outside#biz-policy
We may close, suspend, or limit your access to your Account or the Services _(such as limiting access to any of your Funding Sources, and your ability to send money, make withdrawals, or remove financial Information_
this means freeze your bank accounts. nice huh?
-Ralph


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## Tree Slayer

begleytree said:


> and when we use paypal http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=weapons and this http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/ua/USUA-outside#biz-policy
> We may close, suspend, or limit your access to your Account or the Services _(such as limiting access to any of your Funding Sources, and your ability to send money, make withdrawals, or remove financial Information_
> this means freeze your bank accounts. nice huh?
> -Ralph


Whats up with paypal anti gun I guess. I think I hate them


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## charlieh

Tree Slayer said:


> So I guess getting your hands on an ak47 or ar15 are pretty tough. how about a handgun can you own one?



we can get straight pull ar15 variants but nothing that self loads! pistols are a complete no no our olympic team who are one of the best have to travel overseas to practise! even though we can hold the olympics we are breaking the olympic charter as all sportsmen should be free to practise their sport in their own country!!!!

shotguns are 3shots maximum unless you get a firearms license, for this process i will summerise!

1) fill in a 8 page form
2) find land to short over that the police deam safe for that rifle, if its not already ok they have to come and inspect it!
3) police do checks on all people who live in the house
4) police come and check gun security in house (<4 guns ok 4-14 need and alarm system, >15guns your alarm must automatically dial into the local police)
5) 2months later you will get the document back to buy the rifle with alsorts of clauses on it .25-06 is only for deer unless "you encounter a fox whilst on a stalk" so if i shot a fox from a vehicle at night i risk loosing all my firearms!
6) you may go and purchase your weapon
7) you and the gun shop owner have to fill out another document to say who has the rifle

see what i mean PITA (oh and this process is each time you by a gun or every 5 years)


Charlie


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## Tree Slayer

Wow what a bunch of bull,sure glad I live in the good old USA. I guess its time to rejoin the NRA, Quit because they always ask for more and more money seems like your membership isn't enough.


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## treebogan

*Yeah the UK sucks for gun owners*

I worked in the UK on and off for five years.Once when hunting on PRIVATE land with an AIR RIFLE,I got up from where I was sitting to go and get the couple of Rabbits I had shot,when along came a Police car.The two Officer's confiscated my air rifle "on suspicion of tresspass" as I only had the old land owners phone number.He had changed his mobile and his home phone number was in my job folder.When I did finally retrive my rifle,the once Brand new,nice shiney,"never before spent so much on a bloody airgun before" rifle was rusty,scratched and the scope covers missing.When I asked the desk sergent about this,he told me I was lucky to have it back at all.
WANKERS


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## A. Stanton

treebogan said:


> I worked in the UK on and off for five years.Once when hunting on PRIVATE land with an AIR RIFLE,I got up from where I was sitting to go and get the couple of Rabbits I had shot,when along came a Police car.The two Officer's confiscated my air rifle "on suspicion of tresspass" as I only had the old land owners phone number.He had changed his mobile and his home phone number was in my job folder.When I did finally retrive my rifle,the once Brand new,nice shiney,"never before spent so much on a bloody airgun before" rifle was rusty,scratched and the scope covers missing.When I asked the desk sergent about this,he told me I was lucky to have it back at all.
> WANKERS


We have a similar goverment agency here: the BATF. They regulate gun dealers here and have been known to confiscate guns and return them in worse shape then when confiscated. 
A man in Waco, Texas gave these boys a little lesson in marksmanship a few years back. They didn't get his guns without a fight.


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## begleytree

yup, it's to the point that the BATF are so afraid to get their a55es kicked again that they now prey on the average law abiding citizen. last case I knew of a guy had a AR that he bought new and it would fire 2-3 sometimes, he sent it to the manufacturer for repair less than a week after purchase and the BATF grabbed the gun in shipment to repair and drug him to court for an illegal machine gun.
Jackboots too scared of a real fight.
-Ralph


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## ButcherGY54

My "rifle" that I have to use in NJ is a Remington 870 with a 24" fully rifled barrel. It will put 3 rounds of Remington BuckHammer 3" magnums at 100 yards into a group the size of my fist. Not bad for a shotgun.

David


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## aggiewoodbutchr

rb_in_va said:


> I love the USA! Lets all remember posts like this come time to vote.



Speaking of which...

Have you heard of this? Read the full text if you hadn't. This bill makes the Clinton gun ban look weak.


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## HEAVY FUEL

wdchuck;624927
So said:


> Sorry to hear that, when you were up for the GTG we could have let some lead fly along with the sawchips! But I'm sure you don't need another addiction to go along with the chainsaws!


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## builttoughf350

my favorite


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## rb_in_va

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Speaking of which...
> 
> Have you heard of this? Read the full text if you hadn't. This bill makes the Clinton gun ban look weak.



Have I heard of what?


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## aggiewoodbutchr

rb_in_va said:


> Have I heard of what?



 oops- forgot to copy the link in... here is is.


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1022


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## bwalker

My favorite guns is a Winchester model 70 classic CRF. The gun has a 25" fluted Broughton "5C" barrel in contour #3, a jewell trigger set at 1.5lbs, Williams botom metal and extractor, 300 weatherby follower and mag box, 4.5-14 Leupold VX-3, Tally LW 1 piece mounts rings and a Mcmillan edge stock.
Shoots .5'' groups at 200 with Lapua brass, GM215 primers, Retumbo and a 200gr Accubond. Velocity is right at 3000 with this combo.
The only thing I might change is to take of the jewell trigger for hunting in rough conditions as I am concerned about dirt fouling it up.


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## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> The only thing I might change is to take of the jewell trigger for hunting in rough conditions as I am concerned about dirt fouling it up.




Guns are cleanable, but not many need a 1.5# pull in a hunting sisuation.


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## jefeVTtreeman

i have two both remington LTR's one is in .308 and the other is in 300saum. i like the 20 inch fluted barrel and light weight, great for long hikes. i have a nice 300 um sendero SF for the game thats far away. My AR bushmaster is for home protection and only sighted for 25 yards. A friend just bougth a taurus raging bull 44 mag with like 12" barrel with scope for boar hunting says no recoil.




.


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## bwalker

> Guns are cleanable, but not many need a 1.5# pull in a hunting sisuation.


 Needed? Maybe not, but once you become acustomed to shooting a rig with a good trigger there is no going back.
In regards to the cleaning comment. To clean the a jewell trigger you would have to take the action out of the stock and them remove the sideplates form the trigger. Lots or delicate parts that could get screwed up, not to mention the fact that your zero may change when removing the action from the stock.
A much better option is to use the stock Win trigger, which is basicly fool proof.


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## weatherby guy

hanniedog said:


> My brother had a 700BDL Varmint Special when we were kids. It was a 22/250 and would shread groudhogs with a 52 grain Speer hollowpoint. I had a 222 shooting same bullit very effective but not near the damage done by the22/250. As an all around varmint round the 22/250 has to be one of the best. In comparison does a 7mm kick like 30/06 or the 25/06. Saw a 250 lb. man shoot a 7mm and it really rocked him.



Regarding the 7mm recoil question. A few things that must be considered: 1. weight of the gun 2. stock design <ie how the stock fits the shooter, welt point, comb height...etc>. Assuming these are addressed and there is at least a marginal recoil pad, recoil at this point is a subjective discussion. A 7mm to one guy might exceed his recoil threshold, to another guy a 378 might be tolerable off the bench........it all depends. For most, the 7mm rifle/scope combo pushing 7lbs+ is manageable setup.


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## weatherby guy

bwalker said:


> Needed? Maybe not, but once you become acustomed to shooting a rig with a good trigger there is no going back.
> In regards to the cleaning comment. To clean the a jewell trigger you would have to take the action out of the stock and them remove the sideplates form the trigger. Lots or delicate parts that could get screwed up, not to mention the fact that your zero may change when removing the action from the stock.
> A much better option is to use the stock Win trigger, which is basicly fool proof.



A trigger set at 1.5lbs can be considered a safety issue in the field. HOWEVER is is very useful at the bench when trying to work up loads and wringing about the full accuracy potential out of a rifle. I dial down my trigger pull and sear engagement to approach 1.5 lbs off the bench. Moving to the field I will dial both back up to a very crisp 2.5-3lbs. You don't notice the difference between 1.5 and 2.5-3lbs in the field <unless shooting prarie dogs or crows at long distance. In situations like this the 1.5lb pull is more acceptable as you are typically shooting from a fixed position (ie barrels consistently aimed in one one direction). Regarding cleaning any trigger mechanism that requires taking the stock off (most rifles) one should always resight after the rifle is reassembled......especially is one headed out in the field to hunt. You owe it to the game you are hunting to have both your rifle dialed in as well as your shooting skills honed.


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## weatherby guy

Tree Slayer said:


> hey we were talking hunting guns but now your really talking, I also have an Ak47, Arma lite 10a2 in 308. walther g22 and my friend has 2 barret 50s that we shoot at junk cars all the time. ever hear of tanerite big bang.



Tanerite big bang? Is that the two chemical compounds you mix together (usually in some type of container) and then detonted by shooting the container? If so, how loud is the actual charge when detonated?


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## luckycutter

For deer, the DSA SA50. 308. An extreme weather and battle tested design. It is also my back-up gun for elk. 
For Elk, Remington 700 BDL .300 win. 
For smaller critters/when I don't want to get the pretty rifles muddy, the SAR3 does just fine. 
None of my rifles are tackdrivers, but they all do their job well, which is putting dinner on the table.

Whenever some gun grabbing politition tries to seperate the shooters from the hunters(divide and conqure) and says people do not use assault or MBR rifles for hunting, I can, with out reservation, raise my hand and call "B U L L S H I T !" The field conditions for hunting are quite often very similar to the battlefield so weapons origionally designed for war are very much at home at hunting camps as well.


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## ShoerFast

weatherby guy said:


> A trigger set at 1.5lbs can be considered a safety issue in the field. HOWEVER is is very useful at the bench when trying to work up loads and wringing about the full accuracy potential out of a rifle. I dial down my trigger pull and sear engagement to approach 1.5 lbs off the bench. Moving to the field I will dial both back up to a very crisp 2.5-3lbs. You don't notice the difference between 1.5 and 2.5-3lbs in the field <unless shooting prarie dogs or crows at long distance. In situations like this the 1.5lb pull is more acceptable as you are typically shooting from a fixed position (ie barrels consistently aimed in one one direction). Regarding cleaning any trigger mechanism that requires taking the stock off (most rifles) one should always resight after the rifle is reassembled......especially is one headed out in the field to hunt. You owe it to the game you are hunting to have both your rifle dialed in as well as your shooting skills honed.



So true!

Yet alone shooting with cold fingers,,, something most bench shooters don't deal with. Trying to fallow the cross-hairs on the bread-basket of a huge buck or bull is one thing. But to only be "squeezing" the trigger while the bread-basket is between the trees, rock and road road-signs is another. If your aiming at a bull moving between a lot of old growth trees, there is a chance that if the bull moves 10' your squeeze started and stopped 10 times?

Another thing happens, when a gray-ghost appears and disappears, anticipation and adrenaline take over. If you really think about it, as a trigger is pulled, squeeze as you like, but the gun will go off with a beat of your heart! At a pound and a half, there is not a lot of resistance to counter the lower sensitivities.

Add in that there are just lower basic motor skills when fatigue , cold and excitement set in. Most factory triggers are just plain trashy, just a few swipes on an Arkansas Hard stone will help,,,, smooth and crisp are a couple word that fit!

Back on topic, been to a few elk camps, and Browning "A" bolts sure do show up a lot lately, some hunters sure like tweeking on those compensator. 

Remington ADL' and BDL's have been an old tack driving stand by, lot of gun for the money, I don't think I have ever seen a gun problem with Remingtons?

Weatherby's always had there ducks in a row, but I never been sold on Winchesters bolts, nothing in particular, just seen a couple problems so there not as high on my list.

Ruger had a ton of flobs, if anyone ever gets one that just don't shoot straight, get the barrel frozen, I heard that about the day after I got rid of one of the smoothest actions I ever had.

I think a brand to watch is Savage arms, years ago they were bargain basement clubs,,,,that just happened to shot straight. Now there just as ugly,just as cheap, but offer one of the nicest stock triggers , and stihl drive tacks!

Most of the high-breed rifles are sort of you get what you pay for? I had a mule take off bucking with 2 hard cases with 4 rifles for 4 hunters once. The mule bucked himself into a huge wind-fall tree only about 250 yards away,,,,, but he had over 10K worth of rifles with him. Sharing the story because anything could happen, guns , IMO can cost too much money for the job they are asked to do, and I would hate to own the $3500 dollar custom that can't shoot as well as a $350 dollar ugly-betty Savage.


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## BC_Logger

Javelin Missile System from deer to anoying neighbors :hmm3grin2orange: 



reminton 700 chambered in 308


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## Timberhauler

ShoerFast said:


> Most of the high-breed rifles are sort of you get what you pay for? I had a mule take off bucking with 2 hard cases with 4 rifles for 4 hunters once. The mule bucked himself into a huge wind-fall tree only about 250 yards away,,,,, but he had over 10K worth of rifles with him. Sharing the story because anything could happen, guns , IMO can cost too much money for the job they are asked to do, and I would hate to own the $3500 dollar custom that can't shoot as well as a $350 dollar ugly-betty Savage.



I once bought a Kimber 7400 rifle in .300 short mag when they first came out.I was completely disappointed in the accuracy of that rifle.It absolutely would not shoot anywhere near as tight as my model 700 30/06.It had the best trigger pull of any out of the box rifle I had ever tried,but for a 1,000 dollar rifle the accuracy sucked...The model 700 action is the most widely used action in existance for law enforcement and military snipers.That should tell someone something...I have three,a .308,a 30/06 and a 300 win mag..They all shoot three shot groups consistantly around 3/4 of an inch at 150 yards.


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## bwalker

> A trigger set at 1.5lbs can be considered a safety issue in the field


 That depends on if you are talking about a factory trigger set at 1.5lbs or a Jewell or the like set at the same. If you tweak a factory trigger down to that level it probaly will be unsafe. With a jewell at that weight you can slam the butt pretty hard and the gun will not fire.
Williams firearms is coming out with a trigger setup for the Model 70 that is safe down to 1lb as well.
IMO the lighter the trigger the better. My main gun till recently was a McMillan Talon in 280 remington. Its trigger broke very crisply at 2lbs and I have shot alot of game with that gun in all kinds of conditions. From Dall sheep in the Brooks to Muleys in Montana amd Moose in NW Ontario. Never had the gun go off when not intended and always appreciated the crisp,light trigger. Even in sub zero weather.


> Most of the high-breed rifles are sort of you get what you pay for?


 I tend to agree. That is untill you get into the realm of big name custom smiths like Darcy Echols, Gene Simillion and the like. When your into the league of $12,000 rifles name recognition comes into play. Not that the guns the produce are not top notch in every way, mind you.


> I had a mule take off bucking with 2 hard cases with 4 rifles for 4 hunters once. The mule bucked himself into a huge wind-fall tree only about 250 yards away,,,,, but he had over 10K worth of rifles with him. Sharing the story because anything could happen, guns , IMO can cost too much money for the job they are asked to do, and I would hate to own the $3500 dollar custom that can't shoot as well as a $350 dollar ugly-betty Savage


If you have a custom that cost $3500 that wont shoot with a Savage either the problem is the guy behind the trigger or your gunsmith raped you. $3500 is enough to build a fine semi custom, syn stocked rifle with top flight barrel, stock, trigger and metal/stock work.
BTW on last thing. One aspect of custom rifles that rarely discussed is one of function. In todays world, with todays tooling and barrels building a tack driver isnt rocket science. What seperates the men form the boys is getting a gun that is utterly reliable under field conditions. I am talking about reliable scope mounting sytems,feeding, extraction, and ejection.
Shoer your lucky to live in Colorado. Your state has more than a couple top flight smiths.
Also did the outfit you guided for hunt the uncomphagre (sp?) ?


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## weatherby guy

bwalker said:


> That depends on if you are talking about a factory trigger set at 1.5lbs or a Jewell or the like set at the same. If you tweak a factory trigger down to that level it probaly will be unsafe. With a jewell at that weight you can slam the butt pretty hard and the gun will not fire.
> Williams firearms is coming out with a trigger setup for the Model 70 that is safe down to 1lb as well.
> IMO the lighter the trigger the better. My main gun till recently was a McMillan Talon in 280 remington. Its trigger broke very crisply at 2lbs and I have shot alot of game with that gun in all kinds of conditions. From Dall sheep in the Brooks to Muleys in Montana amd Moose in NW Ontario. Never had the gun go off when not intended and always appreciated the crisp,light trigger. Even in sub zero weather.
> 
> I tend to agree. That is untill you get into the realm of big name custom smiths like Darcy Echols, Gene Simillion and the like. When your into the league of $12,000 rifles name recognition comes into play. Not that the guns the produce are not top notch in every way, mind you.
> 
> If you have a custom that cost $3500 that wont shoot with a Savage either the problem is the guy behind the trigger or your gunsmith raped you. $3500 is enough to build a fine semi custom, syn stocked rifle with top flight barrel, stock, trigger and metal/stock work.
> BTW on last thing. One aspect of custom rifles that rarely discussed is one of function. In todays world, with todays tooling and barrels building a tack driver isnt rocket science. What seperates the men form the boys is getting a gun that is utterly reliable under field conditions. I am talking about reliable scope mounting sytems,feeding, extraction, and ejection.
> Shoer your lucky to live in Colorado. Your state has more than a couple top flight smiths.
> Also did the outfit you guided for hunt the uncomphagre (sp?) ?



That depends on if you are talking about a factory trigger set at 1.5lbs or a Jewell or the like set at the same. If you tweak a factory trigger down to that level it probaly will be unsafe. With a jewell at that weight you can slam the butt pretty hard and the gun will not fire.
Williams firearms is coming out with a trigger setup for the Model 70 that is safe down to 1lb as well.
IMO the lighter the trigger the better. My main gun till recently was a McMillan Talon in 280 remington. Its trigger broke very crisply at 2lbs and I have shot alot of game with that gun in all kinds of conditions. From Dall sheep in the Brooks to Muleys in Montana amd Moose in NW Ontario. Never had the gun go off when not intended and always appreciated the crisp,light trigger. Even in sub zero weather.

The assumption here is that the sear engagement and pull weight are correct (no matter what the trigger pull the rifle will not fire until the trigger is depressed. That said a 1.5 or 1lb pull are just as safe (in that the gun will not go off until the trigger is pulled). While some have hunted with 1-1.5 lb trigger lb pulls it is still a safety issue. Per the post earlier that alluded to the possible issues in the field with a trigger set so low, I completely agree. Just because someone hasn't had an accident or 'misfire' doesn't mean that there is not the potential for a mishap (ie botched shot, wounded animal.....etc.). In real hunting situations (no matter how seasoned you are) adrenelin and less than ideal shooting conditions are challenges that plauge hunters. Having what I would classify as a 'bench rest' trigger set up is adding another variable with which a hunter must contend with. At the bench there is nothing better than a crisp, light trigger pull. In the field it can actually work against the hunter and in the worst case pose a safety hazzard.


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## bwalker

> While some have hunted with 1-1.5 lb trigger lb pulls it is still a safety issue. Per the post earlier that alluded to the possible issues in the field with a trigger set so low, I completely agree. Just because someone hasn't had an accident or 'misfire' doesn't mean that there is not the potential for a mishap (ie botched shot, wounded animal.....etc.). In real hunting situations (no matter how seasoned you are) adrenelin and less than ideal shooting conditions are challenges that plauge hunters. Having what I would classify as a 'bench rest' trigger set up is adding another variable with which a hunter must contend with. At the bench there is nothing better than a crisp, light trigger pull. In the field it can actually work against the hunter and in the worst case pose a safety hazzard.


 I was speaking from a purely mechanical point of view and it goes without saying that no saftey or amount of trigger pull is a replacement for proper gun handling.
FWIW BR triggers are measured in ounces, not lbs. 1.5lb trigger is hardly up to BR standards, but is have some benifit(for me anyways) when shooting form field positions.


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## bwalker

> I once bought a Kimber 7400 rifle in .300 short mag when they first came out.


 Quality seems to be very spotty with Kimbers. That said, I had one of their 1911 pistols and was very happy with it.

FWIW I own Remington, Sako, and Winchester bolt actions. I prefer the winchester model 70's I have over the Model 700's based on the fact that the blade ejector on the model 70 isnt as easily fouled as the 700's spring loaded plenger and the fact that the model 70 has a three position saftey that actually disengages the sear, and locks down the bolt, which the model 700 doesnt do.
Both the model 70 and 700's I have had have been pretty good shooters out of the box.
One thing about a model 70 that is problamatic is the fact that they often need a little work to get them to feed right. Once this is done the feed even WSM cases slicker than snake poop.


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## Timberhauler

The first christmas my wife and I were married,she bought me a model 700BDL walnut stocked 25/06...I have lost count of all the M700's I've owned,but this one was a peice of work.The trigger was perfect,and using core-lokt 115 gr. bullets it shot sub 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards.This was using a Simmons 44Mag scope...I know,this is not the best of scopes,but it was all I could afford for it.I once made a head shot on a fox from 120 yards with it..I believe before buying a custom rifle,I would just buy another one of these....Like an idiot though,I traded it for the 300 win mag I have now.It is a stainless synthetic rifle as is my 30/06 and 308....Even though I don't like wood stocks and blued finishes on a hunting rifle I wish I would have kept this one.All three of my other rifles are almost as accurate,but with the exception of the .308 the recoil from the 25/06 was almost non-existant making it very fun to just go out and shoot....I'm gonna buy me another one one of these days.


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## weatherby guy

bwalker said:


> I was speaking from a purely mechanical point of view and it goes without saying that no saftey or amount of trigger pull is a replacement for proper gun handling.
> FWIW BR triggers are measured in ounces, not lbs. 1.5lb trigger is hardly up to BR standards, but is have some benifit(for me anyways) when shooting form field positions.



Certain Bench Rest Rifles (6mm PC,...etc) absolutely have 2 ounce triggers, space age stocks,....etc. One doesn't even pull these types of triggers in the traditional form...they 'slap' the trigger....esentially applying extremely light pressure on the outside edge of the trigger. Service Rifle or more traditional bench rest shooting usually entails a more traditional rifle and trigger setup, however the triggers are tuned in and about the 1-1.5 lb range. Nobody I know would disagree with the fact that the crisper and lighter the trigger the better. However when one factors in the field conditions <rain snow, uneven terrain, gloves, cold weather, moving game, buck fever....................etc> no outfitter or serious or responsible big game hunter would call a 1.5lb trigger pull safe for the field. It might work for you but it wouldn't be acceptable with any outfitter I have ever been with nor the guys I travel around and hunt with. The only possible exception (not in my mind but someone might make the case) is if one were hunting in a stationary ground or elevated blind overlooking a bean field or agriculture field). Even the custom gun makers....Jarret, McMillian, ...etc won't set their own rifles up with trigger pulls at 1.5lbs (most likely a very crisp 2.5-3 I defer to the experts and personal experience.


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## bwalker

I really like the 25-06 and in fact just had a 25-06 Ackley improved built using a Krieger barrel on a Sako AV action. This gun is going to be my coyote buster that rides shotgun with me in my truck.

FWIW if you do your shopping you can turn a Model 700 into a syn stocked custom rifle fairly cheap. And most smiths can dial a 700 pretty well as the blue printing procedures are well known.


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## Timberchic

bwalker said:


> Quality seems to be very spotty with Kimbers. That said, I had one of their 1911 pistols and was very happy with it.
> .



A really good friend of ours is a Kimber dealer,and he let me try out one of their mid sized 45 auto's when I was looking for an off duty carry pistol....While doing some rapid fire drills with it,it jammed several times over about 50 rounds,and the accuracy just wasn't good enough for me to justify spending that kind of money.I bought a Glock model 30 and was much more happy with it.Plus the kimber only held 7 rounds.That really doesn't matter anyway as I have never had to draw a weapon while I was off duty.But of course,ya' never know when sh-t will hit the fan.


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## bwalker

> However when one factors in the field conditions <rain snow, uneven terrain, gloves, cold weather, moving game, buck fever....................etc> no outfitter or serious or responsible big game hunter would call a 1.5lb trigger pull safe for the field. It might work for you but it wouldn't be acceptable with any outfitter I have ever been with nor the guys I travel around and hunt with. The only possible exception (not in my mind but someone might make the case) is if one were hunting in a stationary ground or elevated blind overlooking a bean field or agriculture field). Even the custom gun makers....Jarret, McMillian, ...etc won't set their own rifles up with trigger pulls at 1.5lbs (most likely a very crisp 2.5-3 I defer to the experts and personal experience.


 I defer to my earlier post regarding safe handling procedures. I fthese are followed your point becomes moot. Only place your finger on the trigger when your on target and ready to fire. Know your gun well. and follow the well known saftey guidlines and the trigger pull isnt of consequance.
BTW I have been on a few guided hunts and have never been askedwhat my trigger pull is.
I might aslo add that the Mcmillan rifle I have came form the factory with a crisp, 2lb trigger. A half lb either way isnt going to make it safer or more dangerous. Must of my custom rifles are set up with 1.5-2lb triggers.


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## weatherby guy

bwalker said:


> I defer to my earlier post regarding safe handling procedures. I fthese are followed your point becomes moot. Only place your finger on the trigger when your on target and ready to fire. Know your gun well. and follow the well known saftey guidlines and the trigger pull isnt of consequance.
> BTW I have been on a few guided hunts and have never been askedwhat my trigger pull is.
> I might aslo add that the Mcmillan rifle I have came form the factory with a crisp, 2lb trigger. A half lb either way isnt going to make it safer or more dangerous. Must of my custom rifles are set up with 1.5-2lb triggers.



I will let this dead horse lie after this one.

No outfitter would have the reason to ask what the rifle trigger was set at as I don't think an outfitter would assume anyone would show up with a 1.5lb trigger pull to begin with. However they do typically watch some hunters sight their rifles in prior to the hunt.

McMillan may indeed send a rifle with a 2lb pull and in my opinion (and many others) that is on the very very light side of the spectrum for hunting. Just because a rifle is shipped with a 1.5 or 2lb trigger does not mean that it is appropriate to use in the field. 

Do the math son.. the difference between 1.5 and 2 is .5 lb...stated another way it take 33% more effort to pull the 2lb vs the 1.5lb.........looks a bit different stated that way. 

Here is a link (one of 1000's on the interent) that addresses trigger pull. This article was the most conservative when referencing appropriate trigger pulls for hunting....etc. Most of the others would say anybody hitting the woods for big game with a trigger pull of 1.5lbs is a fool. Especially on any hunt that would require any type of physical exertion while pursuing game. 

You and I (as well as 99% of all big game hunters) can agree to disagree here.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/shooting/article/0,13199,645334,00.html


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## 046

my custom Weatherby .270 measures at 1 lb 4oz. that's my deer hunting rifle. 

what I practice with is high end air rifles. 10k+ rounds fired in the last 4 months. lightest trigger is 4oz on FWB 601 ten meter gun. FWB 300S was set a crack heavier at 6 oz. 

what I shoot the most is a Beeman R7 and R1 set at 1 lb 4oz to match my weatherby .270. muscle memory is earned by thousands of shots. 

when you're used to aiming at a dime sized target. it's hard to miss a deer sized one. spend a lot of time shooting off-hand. ideal is to get an accurate shot off within two seconds from locating target. 

it's really hard to be steady when shooting off-hand. main targets are starlings and house sparrows. starlings are very wary. 

I've got no problems with shooting such a light trigger on weatherby .270. most folks don't put in the number of shots I do. 

there's no way anyone can shoot 10k+ shots and not improve...



weatherby guy; said:


> Certain Bench Rest Rifles (6mm PC,...etc) absolutely have 2 ounce triggers, space age stocks,....etc. One doesn't even pull these types of triggers in the traditional form...they 'slap' the trigger....esentially applying extremely light pressure on the outside edge of the trigger. Service Rifle or more traditional bench rest shooting usually entails a more traditional rifle and trigger setup, however the triggers are tuned in and about the 1-1.5 lb range. Nobody I know would disagree with the fact that the crisper and lighter the trigger the better. However when one factors in the field conditions <rain snow, uneven terrain, gloves, cold weather, moving game, buck fever....................etc> no outfitter or serious or responsible big game hunter would call a 1.5lb trigger pull safe for the field. It might work for you but it wouldn't be acceptable with any outfitter I have ever been with nor the guys I travel around and hunt with. The only possible exception (not in my mind but someone might make the case) is if one were hunting in a stationary ground or elevated blind overlooking a bean field or agriculture field). Even the custom gun makers....Jarret, McMillian, ...etc won't set their own rifles up with trigger pulls at 1.5lbs (most likely a very crisp 2.5-3 I defer to the experts and personal experience.


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## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> If you have a custom that cost $3500 that wont shoot with a Savage either the problem is the guy behind the trigger or your gunsmith raped you. $3500 is enough to build a fine semi custom, syn stocked rifle with top flight barrel, stock, trigger and metal/stock work.
> BTW on last thing. One aspect of custom rifles that rarely discussed is one of function. In todays world, with todays tooling and barrels building a tack driver isnt rocket science. What seperates the men form the boys is getting a gun that is utterly reliable under field conditions. I am talking about reliable scope mounting sytems,feeding, extraction, and ejection.
> Shoer your lucky to live in Colorado. Your state has more than a couple top flight smiths.
> Also did the outfit you guided for hunt the uncomphagre (sp?) ?



Maybe I could put it another way. What would a $3495.00 (on sale!) custom rifle have over a tack driving $350 dollar Ugly-Betty Savage?

Lets just say the Savage shoots a very consistent 1 1/4 minute group.

Just to set the parameters, lets take a 300 Mag set up for elk hunting, scoped well enough to take a 350 yard shot.

As I would say what separates the men from the boys is the built in , or born with hunting ability. And maybe a little red loctite on the scope mounts. 

When the mule broke loose with all my hunter's guns, was at the base of Mt. Wilson, at the edge of the Lizard Head Wilderness area,,,, South and West of the Uncompahgre Wilderness Area.


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## Timberchic

046 said:


> there's no way anyone can shoot 10k+ shots and not improve...



I would hate to even try and count the number of rounds I go through in a year for practice..I know this is a little unrelated to the topic,but in this case,shooting is shooting...We have guys who have been with the department for 20 years that barely shoot well enough to qualify,and we have people who have been there less than two years who shoot a perfect score and well under the time limit..Whether it's a rifle or a pistol one must know their weapon and what it is capable of.I want to be sure that if,god forbid,the one time comes during my law enforcement career that I have to fire my weapon at someone that I make the shot count.In a hunters case..if he or she misses,the animal runs off or goes wounded.The later would suck,but that's why they call it hunting and not killing...If I fire my weapon at someone and do not make a clean shot,then it could either mean that an inocent bystander gets killed,or I could be killed by the person I'm trying to defend myself from,or both...I hear different opinions from many other officers,many of them are of the same opinion as me,many others choose to do what they have to do to get by.If a person owns or uses a gun,then they should familiarize themselves with it over and over..They preach to us..practice,practice,practice...A friend of mine was once assaulted by her ex husband twice.She was always opposed to owning a gun,but she went and bought one anyway.Three months later I invited her to the range with me one Saturday to see if she had learned to use it...She didn't even know how to load it.I stayed at the range with her that day until almost dark until she got to where she could effectively hit where she ws aiming...Otherwise,the gun was useless,she might as well have bought herself a ball bat...BTW..she was an extreme anti gun person before this...Now she is a police officer herself....But no matter what,I hate having to qualify with the 870 we keep in our cars.It's hell on my shoulder.


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## bytehoven

I haven't seen anyone mention this one yet...

Can I get some REP for a Rem 7600 30/06 pump action?  This was my 1st rifle and I still love to shoot it open sight or with 2.5-10x Night Force. It's good to around 1.5-2" MOA with a steady hold and good ammo. It can also take a 10 round mag in a pinch. 

Then there's my Mid-Atlantic rifle collection...

A Rem 870 for deer and a Mossberg 500 Camo set up open sight for Turkeys.

I used to have a real nice Rem 1187 for the field, and I'm sorry I sold that baby. I can use the 870 in the field, but honestly I'm sans a good field gun right now. Have been thinking about a nice over/under.

Everything else would be for plinking or hunting of a different variety. :biggrinbounce2:


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## bwalker

> You and I (as well as 99% of all big game hunters) can agree to disagree here.


 Your making a presumption that you dont have the ability to ascertain. 
I know many guys that run triggers on hunting rifles exactly like I do. Just because the three shots before the season crew dont do it, doesnt mean its not done and done safely.
To clarify my postion. I am saying a 1.5lb trigger is perfectly safe in the field so long as it only discharges when asked to.

BTW a short range BR with cases like the 22,6mm ppc, Dashers, XC's and the 22, 6mm br is shot free recoil. This means the gun is aimed by adjusting thefront and rear rest and not by "steering" as one normaly does when shooting off bags. The trigger isnt slapped at all, but smoothly engaged by pulling your finger straight back. Your hand and wrist isnt even on the stock.
Here is a pic of a guy shooting free recoil.


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## bwalker

> Maybe I could put it another way. What would a $3495.00 (on sale!) custom rifle have over a tack driving $350 dollar Ugly-Betty Savage?
> 
> Lets just say the Savage shoots a very consistent 1 1/4 minute group.
> 
> Just to set the parameters, lets take a 300 Mag set up for elk hunting, scoped well enough to take a 350 yard shot.
> 
> As I would say what separates the men from the boys is the built in , or born with hunting ability. And maybe a little red loctite on the scope mounts.
> 
> When the mule broke loose with all my hunter's guns, was at the base of Mt. Wilson, at the edge of the Lizard Head Wilderness area,,,, South and West of the Uncompahgre Wilderness Area.
> __________________


 That would depend on what custom rifle you are reffering to.
Custom rifles are typicly not on sale and definatly not sold in stores.
With that said a ultra accurate rifle is a never a handicap under field conditions. Savages are fine, but IMO they are not as dependable as Remington, Sako, or Winchester.
Greg Tannel out of Kersey, CO will build you a model 70 or 700 for about $2700. A significant sum, but a pittance when compared to how long it will serve you and what the other costs of the sport are.


----------



## bwalker

> A really good friend of ours is a Kimber dealer,and he let me try out one of their mid sized 45 auto's when I was looking for an off duty carry pistol....While doing some rapid fire drills with it,it jammed several times over about 50 rounds,and the accuracy just wasn't good enough for me to justify spending that kind of money.I bought a Glock model 30 and was much more happy with it.Plus the kimber only held 7 rounds.That really doesn't matter anyway as I have never had to draw a weapon while I was off duty.But of course,ya' never know when sh-t will hit the fan.


 My kimber would stove pipe on occasion untill I polished the feed ramp, then it was fine.
From what I gather Kimber, especially their rifles have a fairly spotty quality record so I am not interested in them.


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## bwalker

Free recoil shooting.


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## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> That would depend on what custom rifle you are reffering to.
> Custom rifles are typicly not on sale and definatly not sold in stores.
> With that said a ultra accurate rifle is a never a handicap under field conditions. Savages are fine, but IMO they are not as dependable as Remington, Sako, or Winchester.
> Greg Tannel out of Kersey, CO will build you a model 70 or 700 for about $2700. A significant sum, but a pittance when compared to how long it will serve you and what the other costs of the sport are.




I guess I did not see anything that would resemble an answer there, as even a Savage at an entry level price is going to be as reliable as the operator, and maybe twice as accurate.

Fairly easy to say that the custom rifle could cost about $2000 more, that is about the cost of a drop-camp hunt or a DIY hunt for elk.

Having hunted with a lot of hunters that could just plain shoot well. I can't say that I had ever seen a custom rifle justify the cost, if fact there maybe a slight sense of false hope that a custom rifle would make a better hunter out of the owner, but who's quote would it be, "a fool and there money"?


----------



## bwalker

> Maybe I could put it another way. What would a $3495.00 (on sale!) custom rifle have over a tack driving $350 dollar Ugly-Betty Savage?


 It will shoot better, fit better and be more reliable than a Savage. There is also the satisfaction in building something to your specs and having a gun that fits like a glove.

It goes without saying that spending coin wont make one a better hunter or a better shot....
Why do you want a Stihl when a Poulan will do the same thing?


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## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> It will shoot better, fit better and be more reliable than a Savage. There is also the satisfaction in building something to your specs and having a gun that fits like a glove.
> 
> It goes without saying that spending coin wont make one a better hunter or a better shot....
> Why do you want a Stihl when a Poulan will do the same thing?



I guess I just got my awnser , and at the same time classified you as a hunter. 

Shoot better? 

In the original question, I used a Savage as an example, as many can shoot at 1 1/4 minutes of accuracy in a 300 mag with a hunting bullet. Since I did not hear the claim that paying $2000 more would improve on that, I wont consider it as an option.

As far as fit, most of us blue-collar hunters practice till the off the shelf rifle fits like a old pair of off the shelf blue jeans. Every off the shelf rifle I have I can toss up a plastic water bottle with one hand and shoulder the rifle and shoot the bottle. Good way to simulate rain also. (Very glad I live in a state that has the topography that you can safely do that in mountains are good back stops!)

I am not sure I would hunt with anyone that thinks there going to need more then one shot. Having a TCR-83 Aristocrat that shoots 1/2 minute .223 , 3/4 minute 7mm 08 and 1 1/2 minute 7mm Mag groups all day long, with a box action! I call it a reliable hunter. (trc-83 can change a barrel like a contender pistol) 

In all, it is extremely rare to even hear about a hunting rifle being unreliable, and far out numbered by operator error. 

You ask why I run Stihl, and say that a box store saw will do the same thing?

I was just trying to understand what justifies the extra $2000 dollars, but when you make a claim that a box store saw would do the same as a Stihl. And in the same site bend over backwards to make a claim that spending an extra couple hundred on a chainsaw modification is a fool with there money, I find fault with that.

Maybe in another way, what percentage of gain is there in the woods ported rifle that cost $2000 more? Because I do think I could beat it with something off the shelf. Using the cheaper off the shelf Savage just to make the claim better.


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## bwalker

> In the original question, I used a Savage as an example, as many can shoot at 1 1/4 minutes of accuracy in a 300 mag with a hunting bullet. Since I did not hear the claim that paying $2000 more would improve on that, I wont consider it as an option.


 1 1/4 accuracy at 100 yards is pretty mediocre and most factory rifles with a little handloading can better that. A custom barreled gun better shoot much better than that or its should be sent back.



> As far as fit, most of us blue-collar hunters practice till the off the shelf rifle fits like a old pair of off the shelf blue jeans. Every off the shelf rifle I have I can toss up a plastic water bottle with one hand and shoulder the rifle and shoot the bottle. Good way to simulate rain also. (Very glad I live in a state that has the topography that you can safely do that in mountains are good back stops!)


 
Practice wont make a rifle fit. This is all the more important if your tall or short.
FWIW A 300 win mag barrel craps out after about 1500-2000 rounds. When you rebarrel you might as well put a decent syn stock that fits you. What you have then is a working mans custom, which is what most of my guns are. No walnut and engraved metal for me.
Now if your burning up a thousand rounds(IMO what it takes to be a good shot) of ammo per year through your gun that means a tube only lasts two seasons max. That means most guys who shoot much have"custom" guns.
The sad truth is that most guns are not shot enough to even come close to wearing out a gun and in fact most people cant shoot worth a darn.Of course having guided hunters I am sure you know this to be true.



> I am not sure I would hunt with anyone that thinks there going to need more then one shot.


 I agree, nothing wrong with single shots.


> Having a TCR-83 Aristocrat that shoots 1/2 minute .223 , 3/4 minute 7mm 08 and 1 1/2 minute 7mm Mag groups all day long, with a box action! I call it a reliable hunter. (trc-83 can change a barrel like a contender pistol)
> 
> In all, it is extremely rare to even hear about a hunting rifle being unreliable, and far out numbered by operator error.


 I disagree. For instance its very common for a Remington 700 to have its ejector jam due to brass shavings fouling the spring loaded plunger. 
My buddys savage 110 had a plastic trigger guard bow that broke. Seen the silver soldered handle come of a remington 700. The saftey jam on a model 70 and on and on. Failures can and do happen.


I am not going to discuss water under the bridge in regards to your latter comments as its not germain to this subject.
Attached is a 3 shot group shot at 100 yards with my 7mm.


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## weatherby guy

bwalker said:


> Your making a presumption that you dont have the ability to ascertain.
> I know many guys that run triggers on hunting rifles exactly like I do. Just because the three shots before the season crew dont do it, doesnt mean its not done and done safely.
> To clarify my postion. I am saying a 1.5lb trigger is perfectly safe in the field so long as it only discharges when asked to.
> 
> BTW a short range BR with cases like the 22,6mm ppc, Dashers, XC's and the 22, 6mm br is shot free recoil. This means the gun is aimed by adjusting thefront and rear rest and not by "steering" as one normaly does when shooting off bags. The trigger isnt slapped at all, but smoothly engaged by pulling your finger straight back. Your hand and wrist isnt even on the stock.
> Here is a pic of a guy shooting free recoil.



very aware of the calibers, and forms used in BR Shooting as I have owned a few of these specialized rifles and competed locally. The trigger isn't 'slapped' in the sense that you are thinking. Slapping is a term used to describe setting the trigger off by depressing the side of the trigger using a very small portion of your finger.

http://www.benchrest.com/FAQ/6.2.shtml


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## bwalker

> Slapping is a term used to describe setting the trigger off by depressing the side of the trigger using a very small portion of your finger.


 The only time I have heard BR guys use the term it had negative conotations. 
Learn somehting new every day.


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## Timberhauler

weatherby guy said:


> very aware of the calibers, and forms used in BR Shooting as I have owned a few of these specialized rifles and competed locally. The trigger isn't 'slapped' in the sense that you are thinking. Slapping is a term used to describe setting the trigger off by depressing the side of the trigger using a very small portion of your finger.
> 
> http://www.benchrest.com/FAQ/6.2.shtml



I learned one little thing from my wife that has forever made me a much better shot at distance.It takes alot of practice,but once you master it,it works very well...and that is "bumping" the trigger..She says she came up with this on her own.I can't really explain it,but it's somewhere between squeezing the trigger and jerking...You have to concentrate on moving just your trigger finger while keeping the rest of you still...When trying to hold still and squeeze the trigger,I would get the shakes before the round went off..But by mastering this,I can get a shot off in less than a second,and it works just as well...Though I have never competed in any kind of long range shooting contest,I do alot of long range shooting for practice...And in the last six years of hunting deer,I'm at 20 deer for 20 shots with no misses.Some shots were at or a little over 300 yards...I imagine it would be harder to pull off with a stiff trigger..All of mine are set at 1-1/2 pounds.


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## bwalker

For me a crisp, light trigger is of great advantage when shooting off hand or off sticks. 
When I shoot I typicly start off at 100 yards of hand, move back to 150 off hand, then shot off sticks at 50 yards increments to 350. I would like to go farther, but the sand pit I shoot at doesnt allow it.
The target is a 4.5'' x 6'' piece of scrap metal plate suspended from a piece of rebar bent into a "U" shape.
Lately, I have only been practicing with full house, 200gr loads out of my 300 winny as it is harder to master the muzzle blast and recoil of a Magnum. Makes shooting my .270 or .280 a piece of cake.


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## Timberhauler

bwalker said:


> Lately, I have only been practicing with full house, 200gr loads out of my 300 winny as it is harder to master the muzzle blast and recoil of a Magnum. Makes shooting my .270 or .280 a piece of cake.



I have dislocated my right shoulder twice,and broken my collarbone once on that side...The older I get the less I can take repeated blows from my 300 mag....That is why I have been using my 30/06 more over the last few years.I cannot stand using a muzzle break...But I do have a limb saver recoil pad..I think I am gonna try a mercury tube next...I have recently read that there is a company that has came out with a "quiet" muzzle break.I'm tempted to give that a try,but I'm a little wary of shipping my rifle off somewhere...My dealer has offered to do it and I may take him up on it..My 300 mag is my most accurate rifle,so I hate to give up on it.


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## Timberhauler

A friend of mine just bought a Browning titanium A-bolt in that new .325 WSM...It kicks on par with a 12 gauge slug gun and I can't even stand to shoot it.Since buying that rifle,he has missed four deer...I don't know why the hell someone needs a round that big for deer anyway....Another friend of mine bought a Savage synthetic stocked 30/06 last season...That thing is as light as a feather,with a 22 inch barrel.With 180 grain bullets it kicks near as hard as my 300 win mag....I must say that since my 30/06 has a 24 inch barrel and I put a thicker recoil pad to lengthen the pull.It barely kicks hard enough to throw your sights off target.The more I've played with it and discovered what it will do,the more I'm liking it....This new magnum craze has diverted everyone's attention off of the good old fashioned rounds..I've regularly made 250 yard shots with my 06'..I don't have time to get down to the low country much these days where I used to make my long shots anyway,so my 06' is really all I need.But it is nice to have the extra firepower around to play with.


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## 046

that's why I favor .270 win rounds. plenty of knockdown up to Elk size animals. certainly good for deer without dislocating your shoulder. 

loads of deer has been taken with 30/30. in Okla. 150 yard shot is considered really long. most shots are much closer.


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## bwalker

> I have dislocated my right shoulder twice,and broken my collarbone once on that side...The older I get the less I can take repeated blows from my 300 mag....That is why I have been using my 30/06 more over the last few years.I cannot stand using a muzzle break...But I do have a limb saver recoil pad..I think I am gonna try a mercury tube next...I have recently read that there is a company that has came out with a "quiet" muzzle break.I'm tempted to give that a try,but I'm a little wary of shipping my rifle off somewhere...My dealer has offered to do it and I may take him up on it..My 300 mag is my most accurate rifle,so I hate to give up on it.


 I have a LS pad on my win mag and really like. One thing I have noticed is that a magnum beats you up much less when shooting while standing. Either off sticks or off hand. Shooitng prone or off a bench is a differant matter. Have you tried a lead sled? They really sock up the recoil, and make hard kickers easy to shoot.
With that said I woudnt feel undergunned with a 30-06 for hunting all the game North America has to offer save coastal brown bears. Load up some Partitions, North Forks, TSX's or TBBC's and there isnt a thing that will walk away from a well placed shot form a -06.
046, nothing wrong with the .270 either. I have killed most of my game with a 25-06 and .280, which are basicly equivelant. Even popped a moose with my .280 and a 140gr Trophy bonded.


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## okietreedude1

046 said:


> loads of deer has been taken with 30/30. in Okla. 150 yard shot is considered really long. most shots are much closer.



Dude, what part of Oklahoma are you in???? 150 yards - REALLY LONG???? Whatever.....


Oh, and I know your in Tulsa:biggrinbounce2: . Your right though, eastern OK, short range. COme west my friend. I have a stand set that a 300 yd is not uncommon and out to 500 is possible.


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## Timberhauler

bwalker said:


> I have a LS pad on my win mag and really like. One thing I have noticed is that a magnum beats you up much less when shooting while standing. Either off sticks or off hand. Shooitng prone or off a bench is a differant matter. Have you tried a lead sled? They really sock up the recoil, and make hard kickers easy to shoot.
> With that said I woudnt feel undergunned with a 30-06 for hunting all the game North America has to offer save coastal brown bears. Load up some Partitions, North Forks, TSX's or TBBC's and there isnt a thing that will walk away from a well placed shot form a -06.
> 046, nothing wrong with the .270 either. I have killed most of my game with a 25-06 and .280, which are basicly equivelant. Even popped a moose with my .280 and a 140gr Trophy bonded.



Yeah,I use a lead sled for sighting in...Most of my practice shots are either kneeling or standing..With the 06 and the 308 I also do alot of prone shooting....A guy I used to work for a long time ago hunts all over the country for moose,elk and brown bear.He has also been on many Africa hunts.The only rifle he will use is an 06'....My next purchase will be a 300 WSM.....Just because I'm curious to try that round out.I haven't decided on what kind of rifle to get though.It will likely be a Browning BAR,just because the semi-auto will help soak up a little bit of the recoil.


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## 046

mostly hunt in Pawhuska, Okla... on Osage Indian lands. owned by Osages since before statehood. very primitive.. pristine lands. 

heavily treed, most shots are under 100 yards... not many places you can get a long shot. 

saw a pack of wolfs working in the moonlight last year. 



okietreedude1; said:


> Dude, what part of Oklahoma are you in???? 150 yards - REALLY LONG???? Whatever.....
> 
> 
> Oh, and I know your in Tulsa:biggrinbounce2: . Your right though, eastern OK, short range. COme west my friend. I have a stand set that a 300 yd is not uncommon and out to 500 is possible.


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## Timberchic

I was beginning to train for becoming a back-up sniper for our SWAT team a few years back...I later changed my mind,but they gave me a Robar,I don't remember the model# ,but it was built on a Model 700 action.It had a bull barrel,an adjustable stock and a bipod.The caliber was .308.Even though heavy,I wouldn't mind using that rifle on a stand hunt...From 100 yards using ball ammo,five shot,one hole groups were normal.And that was getting all five shots off in 30 seconds or less....I've shot many rounds through my husbands .308 and for me there is enough recoil to throw your sights off the target,but with this rifle it almost stays stationary when you fire it...They also make it in a .300 winchester magnum.I'm thinking about buying one for my husband one day to hunt the bean fields since he complains about shooting the 300 mag he has.The felt recoil should be much less due to the 24 inch bull barrel


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## cobbler

*old 1894 six digit serial #*

My uncle gave it to me and his uncle gave it to him. 30-30. Like to rebarrel and make guns too. Have made a percussion .75 rifle that packs wallop on both ends. My 17 hmr is an Anshutz I rebarreled. 30-06 was originally a battlefield pickup another uncle brought back 60+ years ago. Made the breech block to a brass barrelled Hamilton/Daisy 22 a friend gave me. Give me a junker gun and I will figure out how to make is shoot. My latest acquisition is a 9 inch siege mortar. Got some spare bowling balls? Cobble


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## Timberhauler

cobbler said:


> My uncle gave it to me and his uncle gave it to him. 30-30. Like to rebarrel and make guns too. Have made a percussion .75 rifle that packs wallop on both ends. My 17 hmr is an Anshutz I rebarreled. 30-06 was originally a battlefield pickup another uncle brought back 60+ years ago. Made the breech block to a brass barrelled Hamilton/Daisy 22 a friend gave me. Give me a junker gun and I will figure out how to make is shoot. My latest acquisition is a 9 inch siege mortar. Got some spare bowling balls? Cobble



That's some pretty neat stuff...I don't have anything old like that except for an old colt 1911 that came from WWII..I once had a neighbor who was into customizing guns,he even built a few here and there.I wish I had the time and talent to fool with it myself.


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## bwalker

My father and I still have my great granfathers guns. A Belgium Browning sweet 16, a sporterized model 98 Mauser in 8mmx57 and a sporterized springfield -06.


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## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> 1 1/4 accuracy at 100 yards is pretty mediocre and most factory rifles with a little handloading can better that. A custom barreled gun better shoot much better than that or its should be sent back.



When you think about it, your shooting at something as big as a football when your getting hungry for some elk. How far it is to that football is maybe the biggest varrable. IMO the 300 is an elk gun, and a little hard to tame much more then 1MOA , as the position it is shot from or the thickness of the coat can even effect the way a hunter shoots. Even cooling the rifle to a crisp n brisk cold morning needing a heavy coat, can move the zero from the 70Deg. day and a tee-shirt on a beach, on some of the best rifles out there. Exchanging a little hotter - flatter shooting load would have way less standered devation in a hunting situation then the tighest group sometimes, as the most consistant, fastest muzzle visloity would have the margin in enegery and shot placment. Archery hunters can explain this best, as a lot say there is no time for a range finder and have gone to faster arrows with closer sight pins to improve there over-all effective range with less devation. 

IWO, the differance between a 3/4 MOA rifle and a loose 1 1/2 MOA is a 3 inch group compaired to a 6" group @ 400 yards (roughly) But the drop-off or time in flight and the effect of gravity is a huge down range differance. At 400 yards, the heart or football shot goes to a lung or basketball shot , taking some of the guess work out of that 3/4 or 1 1/2 MOA rifle.




bwalker said:


> Practice wont make a rifle fit. This is all the more important if your tall or short.
> FWIW A 300 win mag barrel craps out after about 1500-2000 rounds. When you rebarrel you might as well put a decent syn stock that fits you. What you have then is a working mans custom, which is what most of my guns are. No walnut and engraved metal for me.
> Now if your burning up a thousand rounds(IMO what it takes to be a good shot) of ammo per year through your gun that means a tube only lasts two seasons max. That means most guys who shoot much have"custom" guns.
> The sad truth is that most guns are not shot enough to even come close to wearing out a gun and in fact most people cant shoot worth a darn.Of course having guided hunters I am sure you know this to be true.



Out of all the hunters I had ever seen a very huge majority fall withen the perameters that an off the shelf rifle would fit, Westren hunts into the backcountry, there is the need for differnt saddles, there arm are close to the same, but making stock adjustments is a long way from $2000 dollars. Perhaps a study of standerdizing military rifles would make my point, have you tried a "youth" model?



bwalker said:


> I disagree. For instance its very common for a Remington 700 to have its ejector jam due to brass shavings fouling the spring loaded plunger.
> My buddys savage 110 had a plastic trigger guard bow that broke. Seen the silver soldered handle come of a remington 700. The saftey jam on a model 70 and on and on. Failures can and do happen.


Steping out of the tent on opening morning, uncasing a dirty rifle would be someone with to much money, or someone's eles's money for the cost of hunting anymore. Just as braking things on guns would fall under oppator arror. Thinking that paying an extra $2000 as a blanket coverage for failure over a being a sharp opperator is my point.



bwalker said:


> I am not going to discuss water under the bridge in regards to your latter comments as its not germain to this subject.
> Attached is a 3 shot group shot at 100 yards with my 7mm.



Most people come to this site to discuss chainsaws, making claims about chainsaw mods for a couple hundred and not backing them up, Then defending couple thousand dollar mods on rifles it not water under the bridge, but the germain to this subject, as a persons integrity has more value to me thin what they shoot, and I value a good shoot high on my list!

If I were asked to take the boys shooting before the hunt to evaluate how they shot, and someone showed me your 3 shot group, there is a very good chance I would not be taking that guy out looking for elk, not if I could help it. A good hot load out of a 7MM should hit about +2.5 inches high at 100 yards, be about 3" high at 150 yards, and dead elk at about 300 yards. The first person to bust the furthest milk-jug full of water from a standing position, in a lot of cases would be the first one to shoot at an elk in a lot of elk camps.


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## bwalker

> When you think about it, your shooting at something as big as a football when your getting hungry for some elk. How far it is to that football is maybe the biggest varrable. IMO the 300 is an elk gun, and a little hard to tame much more then 1MOA , as the position it is shot from or the thickness of the coat can even effect the way a hunter shoots. Even cooling the rifle to a crisp n brisk cold morning needing a heavy coat, can move the zero from the 70Deg. day and a tee-shirt on a beach, on some of the best rifles out there. Exchanging a little hotter - flatter shooting load would have way less standered devation in a hunting situation then the tighest group sometimes, as the most consistant, fastest muzzle visloity would have the margin in enegery and shot placment


 I havent noticed this to be the case at all. A 300 win mag is pretty easy to shoot accuratley from field positions and off the bench if you put in the time. I also have not noticed any differance in how mine shoots in differant weather conditions. I do use temp insensitve powders when I can, which helps in this regard. As far as point of impact changes with differant types of clothing. I havent noticed this at all either and I frequantly shoot in the dead of winter as no one is at the range and I can use my snowmbile to retrive targets from the 600 yard line.


> Out of all the hunters I had ever seen a very huge majority fall withen the perameters that an off the shelf rifle would fit, Westren hunts into the backcountry, there is the need for differnt saddles, there arm are close to the same, but making stock adjustments is a long way from $2000 dollars. have you tried a "youth" model?


 Or do most hunters not know what a well fitting rifle feels like? A person thats 6'2'' and a person thats 5'8'' will have a differant length of pull. Thats a fact. 
Military guns are made by the lowest bidder and made so they are wrokable with everyone, but are not ideal for many. Given the scale, its purely a dollar issue. I might add that the Army, navy and Marine sniper rifles are fit to the shooter. Some have adjustable stocks some are cut to fit.


> Steping out of the tent on opening morning, uncasing a dirty rifle would be someone with to much money, or someone's eles's money for the cost of hunting anymore. Just as braking things on guns would fall under oppator arror. Thinking that paying an extra $2000 as a blanket coverage for failure over a being a sharp opperator is my point.


 How many people clean, or even know how to clean the ejector on a remingotn 700? Not many and especially the "good ol boy, box a shells every couple years crowd". Heck, most people do not even know how to clean copper fouling out of a barrel.
A remington bolt handle comming off in your hand when you go to rack a shell isnt operator error at all. Rather its a case of poor silver soldering from the factory. This problem is well documented and fairly common BTW. Ditto with the 700 ejector.


> A good hot load out of a 7MM should hit about +2.5 inches high at 100 yards, be about 3" high at 150 yards, and dead elk at about 300 yards. The first person to


 That was the first group I shot out of that rifle. Wasnt concerned about zero at that point, but what sort of groups it shot. I also wrote on the target upside down, so it was actually shooting high.


> making claims about chainsaw mods for a couple hundred and not backing them up, Then defending couple thousand dollar mods on rifles it not water under the bridge, but the germain to this subject, as a persons integrity has more value to me thin what they shoot, and I value a good shoot high on my list!


 First of all, I have never made claims about what my mod saws will do other than to say they cut well. The guy I use doesnt need a cheerleader. I
am not so much deffending custom rifles as I am pointing out that your mistaken in some of the assumption you have made.


----------



## bwalker

Just picked up a Lawton Machine cut rifled barrel for a fair price off another forum.
Looks like a 270 on a Model 70 action is in my future.


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## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> I havent noticed this at all either and I frequantly shoot in the dead of winter as no one is at the range and I can use my snowmbile to retrive targets from the 600 yard line.
> 
> .



Or 



bwalker said:


> When I shoot I typicly start off at 100 yards of hand, move back to 150 off hand, then shot off sticks at 50 yards increments to 350. I would like to go farther, but the sand pit I shoot at doesnt allow it.
> .



You see were the integrity question comes in?



bwalker said:


> How many people clean, or even know how to clean the ejector on a remingotn 700? Not many and especially the "good ol boy, box a shells every couple years crowd". Heck, most people do not even know how to clean copper fouling out of a barrel.
> .



Sort of brings up the lets use a jeweled trigger hunting, but complain about things getting unreliable while hunting. Most have there gun serviced before an expensive hunt. But brings a point, customs don't get dirty, or are custom owners smarter the "good ol boy" crowd, as that sound condescending?



bwalker said:


> That was the first group I shot out of that rifle. Wasnt concerned about zero at that point, but what sort of groups it shot. I also wrote on the target upside down, so it was actually shooting high.
> 
> .



Sometimes it is appropriate to have someone else at the range to sign the target, Benny Hill shoots and then draws the circles were he wanted to hit. But for the first shots ever out of a rifle, I wouldent touch a thing and make a burnt offering to the windage gods as it don't get better then that.

There is a chance, if you want ultimate performance down range, you would want to start with 140GR's for a 7MM, as they will have a flatter trajectory and retain more energy at 400 years. 

I consider the 7MM to have an effective range of slightly more then 400 with 140gr. slightly less with 160gr's

A 160 leaving the barrel at 2940 will have about 3110 foot#'s of energy, but show up late at 400 yards with 1822 pounds of energy, 19.5" low with a 200 yard zero.

The 140GR will leave the barrel at 3250 with 3260 pounds of energy, get to the elk sooner, drop only 15.8 inches with 1890 pounds of energy, same zero, same CUP of chamber pressure, and it feels like a little less felt recoil to me.

(give or take, I'm sure there are a lot of differnt loads, but avrage them all, and the 140gr will be a better choice for most in a 7MM)


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## bwalker

In case you didnt know I live in two locations. One during the summer and one during the winter.
While I am in Canada during the summer I shoot at a stamp sand pit. When I am at home the local gun club that I live a mile or so away from(Negaunee Rod and Gun has a 600 yard range. Must I take pictures, I surely can as I am shooting after dinner tonight.
Nice try though.....


> Sort of brings up the lets use a jeweled trigger hunting, but complain about things getting unreliable while hunting. Most have there gun serviced before an expensive hunt. But brings a point, customs don't get dirty, or are custom owners smarter the "good ol boy" crowd, as that sound condescending?


 Its Jewell, not jewelled. Jewell is a trigger manufacturer not something done to a trigger.
"Most have there gun serviced". Not from what I have seen at the local range prior to deer season. To most guys "cleaning" means rubbing it with a wd-40 soaked rag so it doesnt rust.....


> Sometimes it is appropriate to have someone else at the range to sign the target, Benny Hill shoots and then draws the circles were he wanted to hit. But for the first shots ever out of a rifle, I wouldent touch a thing and make a burnt offering to the windage gods as it don't get better then that.
> 
> There is a chance, if you want ultimate performance down range, you would want to start with 140GR's for a 7MM, as they will have a flatter trajectory and retain more energy at 400 years.
> 
> I consider the 7MM to have an effective range of slightly more then 400 with 140gr. slightly less with 160gr's
> 
> A 160 leaving the barrel at 2940 will have about 3110 foot#'s of energy, but show up late at 400 yards with 1822 pounds of energy, 19.5" low with a 200 yard zero.
> 
> The 140GR will leave the barrel at 3250 with 3260 pounds of energy, get to the elk sooner, drop only 15.8 inches with 1890 pounds of energy, same zero, same CUP of chamber pressure, and it feels like a little less felt recoil to me.
> 
> (give or take, I'm sure there are a lot of differnt loads, but avrage them all, and the 140gr will be a better choice for most in a 7MM)


 Your showing your ignorance..
First off the group in question was shot out of a 27" barreled 7mm ultra and chronographed at around 3400fps(if memory serves). 
A 140gr bullet at 400 yards will be going slower than a 160 at a equal distance assuming your comparing bullets of simular design. For proof of this you need look no farther than the ballistic calculator on Remingtons website. Since they no longer load the 160gr partition factory load compare the 150 swift vs the 140gr coreloct ultra. At 400 yards the 150 is going almost 200fps faster despite starting out 100fps slower.
A 140gr bullet will also have less energy at 400 and penetrate less on average at all ranges, which isnt a good thing on a animal the size of a Elk.
http://www.remington.com/products/a..._ballistics_results.aspx?data=PR7UM1*PRSC7UM1
BTW If I wanted better longe range performance I would be shooting my 300 winny loaded with a 200gr Nosler Accubond, using Retumbo powder, Lapua brass and a Fed 215M primer for a velocity of 3000fps out of my gun. This combo will out shoot any hunting bullet a 7mm Rem mag can throw at it and will hit like a ton of bricks.


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> In case you didnt knwo I live in two locations. One during the summer and one during the winter.
> While I am in Canada I shoot at a stamp sand pit. When I am at home the local gun club that I live a mile or so away from(Negaunee Rod and Gun has a 600 yard range. Must I take pictures, I surely can as I am shooting after dinner tonight.
> Nice try though.....
> 
> Its Jewell, not jewelled. Jewell is a trigger manufacturer not something done to a trigger.
> "Most have there gun serviced". Not from what I have seen at the local range prior to deer season. To most guys "cleaning" means rubbing it with a wd-40 soaked rag so it doesnt rust.....
> 
> Your showing your ignorance..
> First off the group in question was shot out of a 27" barreled 7mm ultra and chronographed at around 3400fps(if memory serves).
> A 140gr bullet at 400 yards will be going slower than a 160 at a equal distance assuming your comparing bullets of simular design. For proof of this you need look no farther than the ballistic calculator on Remingtons website. Since they no longer load the 160gr partition factory load compare the 150 swift vs the 140gr coreloct ultra. At 400 yards the 150 is going almost 200fps faster despite starting out 100fps slower.
> A 140gr bullet will also have less energy at 400 and penetrate less on average at all ranges, which isnt a good thing on a animal the size of a Elk.


Glad to see that your so informed from your sandbox, or pit, or Canada or were ever it is that your referring to, but again it seems condescending that you think that much of the people you shoot with?

As for the trigger, whatever? never shot one, never will, unless it is by some sort of fluke, as a lot of gadgets and doo-dads are worthless compared to the money it cost, just never had a problem hitting what I wanted to I guess?

Now around here, in the elk camps , we like to call 7MM's 7MM's and 7MM Ultra-mags "UM's" and Short Action Ulta Mags "7MM SAUM" if you would like consideration in deciphering your terminology, that's fine. But saying that is a demonstration of my ignorance, that's fine also, I never claimed to be the brightest bulb on the christmas tree.
But it is a good point to make that Remington is dropping there 160 GR, there not big on feeding dead horses. Speaking of dead horses, trying to compare your holes in the target , made by 160 Gr's,,,are just that, not 150's see? Otherwise, even up-side down you would have wrote "150gr" I'm sure?
But mentioning it again, back-straps off the spit is were the tire meets the road. Understand that I am not hot under the collar as you seem to be, but a little hunting pointer, if you would like one, if you take a balloon that looks like a hunter facing the other way, and tie it to the end of that 27" barrel, you may trick a deer somewhere to think you not looking and cross in front of you? Patrick F. McManus may have more ideas for you, but I wouldn't be looking for much help from the "good ol boys" you shoot with.


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## bwalker

> But it is a good point to make that Remington is dropping there 160 GR, there not big on feeding dead horses. Speaking of dead horses, trying to compare your holes in the target , made by 160 Gr's,,,are just that, not 150's see? Otherwise, even up-side down you would have wrote "150gr" I'm sure?
> But mentioning it again, back-straps off the spit is were the tire meets the road. Understand that I am not hot under the collar as you seem to be, but a little hunting pointer, if you would like one, if you take a balloon that looks like a hunter facing the other way, and tie it to the end of that 27" barrel, you may trick a deer somewhere to think you not looking and cross in front of you? Patrick F. McManus may have more ideas for you, but I wouldn't be looking for much help from the "good ol boys" you shoot


 I used the 150 as a example because that whats was available on the Remington site. A 160 of like construction would have a even higher BC and shoot even flatter proving my point all the more.


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> I used the 150 as a example because that whats was available on the Remington site. A 160 of like construction would have a even higher BC and shoot even flatter proving my point all the more.



Leaving the barrel faster with the same CUP of pressure was my point, so far you changed your story from a "7MM" to a "7MM UM" and the bullet from a 160GR to a 150GR, turned the target upside down, forgot what country your shooting from, and pointed out how ignorant I am.

By all means, your right on all counts! Congrats  

Happy Hunting!

BTW, I stihl would not buy a $2700 dollor rifle as I hunt from horses, anything can happen.


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## bwalker

> Leaving the barrel faster with the same CUP of pressure was my point, so far you changed your story from a "7MM" to a "7MM UM" and the bullet from a 160GR to a 150GR, turned the target upside down, forgot what country your shooting from, and pointed out how ignorant I am.


 Never changed my story..... You ASSumed I had a rem mag. And again for the second time, as it seemed to have went over your head. I used the example of a 150gr bullet vs a 140 because that's the choices given on Remingtons ballistic calculator. A 160 vs. a 140 would prove my point even further as a 160 gr bullet of like construction would have aeven higher ballistic coefficiant.
Since you seem to have limited reading comprehension I will put it in terms you can understand. A 140gr bullet shot out of a 7mm ultra will have less energy and velcoity at 400 yards than a 160gr bullet of like construction shot out of the same gun. Do you know understand?opcorn:


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## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> Never changed my story..... You ASSumed I had a rem mag. And again for the second time, as it seemed to have went over your head. I used the example of a 150gr bullet vs a 140 because that's the choices given on Remingtons ballistic calculator. A 160 vs. a 140 would prove my point even further as a 160 gr bullet of like construction would have aeven higher ballistic coefficiant.
> Since you seem to have limited reading comprehension I will put it in terms you can understand. A 140gr bullet shot out of a 7mm ultra will have less energy and velcoity at 400 yards than a 160gr bullet of like construction shot out of the same gun. Do you know understand?opcorn:




My appoligies!

What was I thinking? everyone knows that when you say 7MM you could mean anything, because lil-bennie says so!

I will have to try that one, next time I'm in a gun shop, I will ask if the have a set of die's for a "7MM" and see what they show me,,,,, or maybe, if I'm in Wally-World, ask the "Gun-Girl" for a box of 7MM and see what she hands me?

But in the real world, the 7UM will not be a real big hit, the case capasity and the slope of the neck are to steep to make deasent gains vs the amount of pressure (CUP) rise, Don't take my word for it, as Chuck Hawk says it better, the " _Because of its great case capacity it is overbore with all but the very slowest rifle powders._", 

Here is a little 7MM info, as the 140 seems optium in most cases:

7mm-08 "_I believe the 7mm-08 performs at its peak with a 140-grain bullet_"

7MM WSM "The 7 WSM achieves fine velocity and accuracy is good. The best bullet weights are 140 and 150 grains."

7MM , Gun Week "_7mm is the flattest shooting big game cartridge on the planet, as far as I'm concerned, flatter shooting with a 140-grain bullet than a .22-250 with a 55-grain bullet. At 3,425 feet per second (fps), this is the perfect round for long range antelope, sheep and goat hunting_."

7MM Guns & Ammo "The 7mm Rem. Mag. is the most popular 7mm, so for 40 years 7mm bullets have been engineered to perform at high velocity. At close range, quick-expanding bullets may blow up, but there are plenty of bullsets that will work well. My field experience has been exclusive to very fast 140-grain bullets--Partition, Core-Lokt and the new Core-Lokt Ultra. I've had no problems."

7UM Guns & Ammo "_Why isn't Remington's 7mm Ultra Mag tearing up sales charts?"_,,,,,,,,,,,, "_So it would seem that the 7mm Remington Ultra Mag, pushing a 140-grain bullet at a sizzling 3,425 fps, would be an instant success."_

In allthe 7MM UM seems the freak, suprised lil-bennies shoots so well.


----------



## Marco

7x57 here, heard of a guy dropping elephants with one


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## weatherby guy

Marco said:


> 7x57 here, heard of a guy dropping elephants with one



So True. Walter Dalrymple Maitland "Karomojo" Bell. He anchored quite a few elephants with that caliber. Throughout his career as an ivory hunter it is reported that he took 1000 elephants (not all with the 7x57).


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## bwalker

> But in the real world, the 7UM will not be a real big hit, the case capasity and the slope of the neck are to steep to make deasent gains vs the amount of pressure (CUP) rise,


 Who cares if its a big hit? The rest of what is posted above is utter non sense and once again your showing your ignorance. Ever heard of a Ackley improced cartridge? They have a even steeper shoulder, less body taper and they work great.
BTW CUP isnt in wide use any more as a measurment. Pressure is measured in PSI now.
I might also point out that Ultra mag data is often shot with a 24'' barrel. Add another three inches and things change drasticly. For instance with a Remington 140gr factory load mine will shoot over 3600fps(chronograph measured).


> Don't take my word for it, as Chuck Hawk says it better, the " Because of its great case capacity it is overbore with all but the very slowest rifle powders.",


 Chuck Hawks is simply regurgitating BS thats been said about every magnum cartidge since the 300 H&H. Its not exactly rocket science that large cases require slow powders. Its also not a issue in this day and age as there are many slow powders available. This wasnt the case in the days of Cordite.



> Here is a little 7MM info, as the 140 seems optium in most cases:


 Thats doesnt change the fact that a 160gr bullet has a higher BC and will fly flatter than a 140. Given both have simular construction of course.


> In allthe 7MM UM seems the freak, suprised lil-bennies shoots so well.


 I built the gun in question for a specific purpose and that was as a bean field rifle to snipe coyotes and deer with. It isnt a allarounder, but it performs its roll perfectly.
For normal hunting I pick up my 300 win mag or my 280 remington.


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## bwalker

> So True. Walter Dalrymple Maitland "Karomojo" Bell. He anchored quite a few elephants with that caliber. Throughout his career as an ivory hunter it is reported that he took 1000 elephants (not all with the 7x57).


 He sure did and used 175gr FMJ, military type ammo to do it.
The 7x57 is a fine cartridge and when handloaded is roughly equivelant to the .280 remington. 
The 280 is a fine cartridge. I have taken all sorts of deer and even a moose with mine.
One day I would like to have a 7x57, 8x57 or a 9.3x62 built on 1909 Argentine Mauser action.


----------



## Timberhauler

I will freely admit that although I have fairly deep knowledge about different rifles and calibers,when one gets into talking about BC and reloading..It's over my head.I've never been one to pretend that I know something I don't.
With that said,I know hordes of people are using a 7mm in one form or another.I bought my oldest daughter a 7mm08 last year as her first deer rifle.It's not a tack driver by no means,but it is a pleasure to shoot.The accuracy is well enough to make it an effective hunting rifle...But I would really like to hear someone's educated opinion on this because it has had me baffled for years..
Four years ago,I bought a Remington 700 BDL in 7mm Rem.Mag..I used a Leupold VarX III scope.I thought this gun would make a happy medium between my 30/06 and my 300 mag....As I started to sight in,I used nearly every different factory bullet that was available.No matter what,I could not get the rifle zeroed in.It was always an inch or better off in any given direction,and the best group ever shot out of that rifle was over two inches,and making sure that it wasn't just me,I had my wife shoot it and my dad.The results were all the same.I kept playing with it and finally got 1-1/2 groups using a Federal bullet,so I got it as close as I could and went hunting with it...The first deer I shot with it stopped in it's tracks..Less than three weeks later I had one walk out 150 yards away.I squeezed off and missed.I even found where the bullet hit the dirt..So I went to the range to sight check...I was hitting eight inches off to the left,so I re-sighted.The season passed,and I never re-used this rifel for hunting,but I pulled it out again to play with later and this time it was shooting too high...I wasn't even hitting the paper this time.Many times I did this,and you could sight in,go back the next day,and the bullets would not hit where you aimed....Mind you while sighting in I always give my barrel time to cool between shots,I tried several different things,but never could get this thing to shoot consistant.So I traded that rifle for the SigP220 that my wife has.I explained to the dealer though the problem I was having with this rifle,and he said.."Well that's typical with people who buy these magnum rifles and don't know how to shoot them...WTF????....I have been dealing with this gun shop for years,and this guy was new.After the conversation I had with the owner of this place,that guy wasn't there much longer.I have heard several different people's opinion on this.I have owned many model 700's in lots of different calibers,from .22-250 to the 375 H&H.All were very accurate so I was shocked by this.What do some of you think it could have been..I like the 7mm Rem Mag,and would like to have another,but this experience has almost turned me against this round.


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## ShoerFast

Timberhauler said:


> What do some of you think it could have been...




This will plague the outfitting industry forever, not every hunter will score an elk on every guided hunt, that's perhaps the hardest thing for me, as some hunters sacrifice a lot for the experience. 

What is just about as hard is having the opportunity to take a shot and they miss, your usual watching with binoculars and see were the bullet hits. 

First thing is to remove the bolt and zero through the barrel with the rifle sandbagged and with out touching the rifle look through the scope to see were the cross-hairs are, if there close, there are bigger problems then a bumped scope. In that case, while hunting, your not going to get that rifle back on line. And hand them a back-up rifle.



A fair place to start , if your going to try to fix it yourself is to check all the hardware , stock - action/barrel and scope mounts for fit and security, I like red loctite, blue will work for the primary scope mounts. If it is a barrel or action - wood bedding problem, and you wish to correct this yourself, you can get a glass-bedding kit and fallow the instructions, I have an old Herder's 98 Mouser that had a wet-day dry day problem and just dumped Devcon epoxy along the wood and free-floated the barrel, drove tacks after that , but it will never come apart again with out destroying the stock.

If your certain that it is not a scope mount or bedding problem, some rifles just set up adverse harmonics as the bullet accelerates down the barrel, Browning "A" bolts have compensator's for this, I have guided for a few guys with "A" bolts. 

If the rifling is peeling brass and unstablising the bullet, lapping is an option to try, some rifles just shoot better just before there wore out. 

I have never sent a rifle of mine off for freezing, but deep cryogenics has an effect on the steel in the barrel, most guns will benefit from this, Ruger has made thousands of rifles that look good, smooth as glass actions, but just can't shoot, freezing them is sometimes an answer. I hope to have a cryo-set up sometime this summer for another hobby of mine making hunting knives.

There is a chance that your like me, and hate to buy a lemon, but hate to pass it off just as much, Kollie Karma never sleeps. Like the .308 I glued together, when life tosses you a lemon, make lemon-aid, I could drag that .308 behind a horse and think it will still keep it's zero!


If the price is right, I would buy a problem rifle, problem is, it's people with a lack of integrity that pass these along with the "oh ya, shoots real good" warranty.


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## bwalker

Timber, In a situation like yours I would check the scope/mounts, bedding, and muzzle crown in that order.


> I have never sent a rifle of mine off for freezing, but deep cryogenics has an effect on the steel in the barrel, most guns will benefit from this, Ruger has made thousands of rifles that look good, smooth as glass actions, but just can't shoot, freezing them is sometimes an answer. I hope to have a cryo-set up sometime this summer for another hobby of mine making hunting knives.



Cryo treatment wont make a inaccurate gun shoot....
The problems Ruger has had in the past is that they had chit barrels and awfull triggers. Of course factory guns never have problems.....
The only way to cure a chit barrel is to turn it into a tomato stake and replace it with a good one.

Here is a article by Dan Lillja on the subject.
http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm#deepcryogenic


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## Timberhauler

bwalker said:


> Timber, In a situation like yours I would check the scope/mounts, bedding, and muzzle crown in that order.
> 
> 
> ]



...I checked all of that,and even inspected the inside of the barrel for anything unusual,but never found anything....I just decided that the rifle was a POS...Then hocked it for the pistol..At least one good thing came of it.My wife loves her Sig.She carried it when working out of uniform,which she did alot.I think she's more attatched to that pistol than she is her engagement ring...Someday I'm going to but another 7mm Rem Mag.Probably in a Model 700 stainless next time...A friend of mine has the exact same rifle that gave me such a fit,and his is one of the most accurate out of the box rifles he's ever owned...In fact that's why I bought mine.....Do you have any experience with the .300 WSM?..I don't know anyone that has one,and would like to hear some feedback before I buy one.


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## bwalker

> Do you have any experience with the .300 WSM?..


 Beyond shooting one once, no. The WSM are of no interest to me as I can not see the need for a short action magnum.
Some guys love them though. 
Basicly a 300 wsm is slightly weaker 300 Winny.


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## weatherby guy

bwalker said:


> Timber, In a situation like yours I would check the scope/mounts, bedding, and muzzle crown in that order.
> 
> 
> Cryo treatment wont make a inaccurate gun shoot....
> The problems Ruger has had in the past is that they had chit barrels and awfull triggers. Of course factory guns never have problems.....
> The only way to cure a chit barrel is to turn it into a tomato stake and replace it with a good one.
> 
> Here is a article by Dan Lillja on the subject.
> http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm#deepcryogenic



Spot on.........great post and solid advice.


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## Timberhauler

bwalker said:


> Beyond shooting one once, no. The WSM are of no interest to me as I can not see the need for a short action magnum.
> Some guys love them though.
> Basicly a 300 wsm is slightly weaker 300 Winny.



I'm not sure anything will ever replace the 300 Win. Mag. as my favorite round....I only want a 300WSM because it's a new cartridge and I'm curious,and I like trying new things....The 270 WSM I owned for a short time was an awesome round,I just wish I would have gotten it in a different rifle other than that Kimber...In fact,I killed the largest whitetail I have ever killed with that rifle,and made a 275 yard shot on it as well...On the same day I made a 200 yard perfect heart shot on a coyote..I may get another someday,but I prefer 30 caliber bullets for what I'm doing....I'm not knocking everything else,that's just what I like.


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## bwalker

> I only want a 300WSM because it's a new cartridge and I'm curious,and I like trying new things


 Nothing wrong with that. I just ahd a 25-06 Ackley improved built just becasue I was curious about Ackley improved cartridges.


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## bwalker

BTW if you want a short mag I would wait untill the new Winchester model 70's come out. The will be released to the public at the SHOT show this winter.
Winchester was one of the few companys to get the WSM's to feed well.


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## Timberhauler

bwalker said:


> BTW if you want a short mag I would wait untill the new Winchester model 70's come out. The will be released to the public at the SHOT show this winter.
> Winchester was one of the few companys to get the WSM's to feed well.



Now I really am curious....Winchester has had that POS Wal-Mart model 70 out for some time now.If they are coming out with some higher end models,then I will definately check them out.....My daughter is getting a little stretched out for her Model 7 youth 7mm-08.So i'm thinking about buying her a model 700 stainless 25/06.Judging by the 25/06 I owned for a little while,and shooting her 7-08,the 06 has a touch more recoil but I think she can handle it...Really,I'm more or less looking for another excuse to buy another 25/06.I should have my ass kicked for trading the one I had.I've never tried the Ackley improved version...When I started looking for her a deer rifle,everyone kept trying to shove a .243 down my throat.I know there are many people who hunt with deer with them,but it would be my last pick for a deer rifle.The only youth model I could find that wasn't limited to a .243 was either the model 7 youth,or the Marlin youth model 30-30.There may have been a few others,but I stopped there.That was a tough pick,I only bought the model 7 because it was such a beautiful gun...That Kimber I had fed pretty good,but it's very close to the model 70 action.


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## bbqmannn

my 30/30 marlin..


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## ShoerFast

bbqmannn said:


> my 30/30 marlin..





Grilled more deer then a lot of cartriges put togather and given the same hunting bullit, will drill further into a green popular then most deer loads. 

Try it sometime, block some popular and shoot, split till you find the bullit, the trick is that the 30/30 is a slower load to expand, not all wood is the same, experament it is a fun bet.


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## bwalker

> Now I really am curious....Winchester has had that POS Wal-Mart model 70 out for some time now.If they are coming out with some higher end models,then I will definately check them out...


 the model 70's at walmart are not really model 70's at all IMO...The Walmart specials have a Controlled round push feed action, which is a bastad ,chap copy of the Model 70 classic controlled round feed action.
The new model 70's coming in 08 will be a refinement of the classic that will be much higher in quality.


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## wildbill458

Model 70 338 winchester mag.More recoil then the smaller guns,but not as bad as the 458 class.


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## Timberhauler

Welcome to AS newguy...I had a 338 for a little while.Mine was very accurate,and I wish I could have kept it,but due to many injuries to my right shoulder from playing football and racing dirtbikes,even though I'm a pretty big guy,I can't handle the recoil from it..I'm thinking about buying another,but maybe a Browning BAR,equiped with the B.O.S.S...I've heard with that rifle and that caliber it would feel about the same as shooting a 30/06.


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## bwalker

> but maybe a Browning BAR,equiped with the B.O.S.S.


 If you buy a BOSS gun just make sure you always wear hearing protection while shooting as they, like any muzzle brake are very loud.
IMO a better option would be to buy a Vais or like muzzle break and have it installed on your gun. The boss unit is basicly a large weight on the end of your barrel which affects the rifles ballance in a negative way.


----------



## Timberhauler

bwalker said:


> If you buy a BOSS gun just make sure you always wear hearing protection while shooting as they, like any muzzle brake are very loud.
> IMO a better option would be to buy a Vais or like muzzle break and have it installed on your gun. The boss unit is basicly a large weight on the end of your barrel which affects the rifles ballance in a negative way.



Back when they first came out with the BOSS,I bought a browning BAR in 7mm rem mag..That was absolutely the most enjoyable rifle I have ever owned to just go out and shoot..The felt recoil was about like that of my 22-250,and for a semi-auto it was astoundingly accurate..Using plain ole' remington core-lokt's..It would shoot a four shot 100 yard group inside of a 1 inch grid on the target..I killed many a' deer with that gun..But that was all during some hard times,and I ended up having to sell it one week to make ends meet..I have sworn since that I would buy another,and I plan on doing just that this year,but I am unsure of what caliber I want...The only bad part of the BOSS was that every time I killed a deer,shooting the rifle without hearing protection,my ears would ring for the next hour.


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## bwalker

I currently have a Winchester model 70 in .270 with boss. I took th emuzzle brake end off and installed the non ventilated one. This solved the noise issue, but I still have a big chunk of metal on the end of the barrel I dont care for. I may just cut the boss sytem off and have it recrowned.


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## Timberhauler

The only reason I am considering buying one with the boss is so I can have a heavier caliber rifle I can shoot comfortably.My 300 winmag is right at my thresh hold.So it will probably be something like a .338 win mag or a 325 short mag..The more I thought about getting it in a 300 short mag,I decided it would be a waste..I had a 375 H&H for a little while...It was almost unbearable and I shot that rifle mostly left-handed.It was fun to play with though.


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## bwalker

If you want something with more thump than your .300 Winny, but are recoil shy how about the 9.3x62? This cartridge basicly matches .338 win mag performance with its lighter bullets and is only slightly less powerful than a 375 H&H with heavier ones. Its case is basicly the same size as a 30-06 case so recoil is pretty calm considering the power it packs.
With this said what do you plan on shooting with this gun? A 300 win mag with a good 180 or 200 grain bullet is more than adequate for all North American game save Coastal Brown Bears. And even then I wouldnt hesitate to shoot a coastie with my win mag provided I trusted the guy batting clean up and his gun was a big bore stopping rifle.


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## Timberhauler

Not really planning on hunting anything big or dangerous with it..For me it's just to add to the collection.I would eventually like to have a rifle in every available caliber,and I want to be able to effectively shoot them all..So getting into even higher calibers it's gonna cost a good bit of money for huge recoil pads,mercury tubes,muzzle brakes,ect...I guess I prefer the .338 for now because it's got a larger selection of factory ammo available..I'll probably take it on deer hunts here and there just for the hell of it,but for the most part,everything above my 300 win mag will be over priced toys.


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## Pilsnaman

White tail hunting I go with the old Winchester 30-30 during rifle season. The new LeverEvolution bullets by Hornady really do live up to the company's claims. The exit hole is no question larger now and sighting in showed it to have a flatter trajectory.
Now for Muzzle Loader season I absolutely love my Thomson Center Arms 50 cal Renegade. Built it from a kit and spent some good time on the wood. Got my first dear with this gun, have never gone a year without at least one dear with it, and have never missed a dear with it. Which I could say the same about my 30-30 but its probably all mental.


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## weatherby guy

bwalker said:


> I currently have a Winchester model 70 in .270 with boss. I took th emuzzle brake end off and installed the non ventilated one. This solved the noise issue, but I still have a big chunk of metal on the end of the barrel I dont care for. I may just cut the boss sytem off and have it recrowned.



I complete agree regarding the appearance of the boss, however the merits of this system is that in aids in accuracy in its ability to tune to rifle (ie control the harmonics of the barrel when a round is fired). The muzzle break component is just a feature that augments the primary purpose of this system.


----------



## Timberhauler

I have always loved lever action rifles.The 30-30 was my first deer rifle and I have lost count of the deer that thing has killed...Everyone has gone into this "magnum craze" and they are trying to make the good ole' deer bustin' bullets like the .308 and the 30-30 seem obsolete..I still kill at least one or two deer a year with my 30-30.I have never tried the ner leverevolution bullets...Mine shoots one hole groups at 50 yards with the old standard stuff.


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## wildbill458

TO what timberhauler said about the boss,i know that a muzzle break tames a 460 quite alot(but not enought).


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## bwalker

> I complete agree regarding the appearance of the boss, however the merits of this system is that in aids in accuracy in its ability to tune to rifle (ie control the harmonics of the barrel when a round is fired). The muzzle break component is just a feature that augments the primary purpose of this system.


 I cant comment on what effect the boss has had on my gun as I never touched it. The gun shot good with a variety of loads right out of the box so other than swapping out the ported end for the non ported one I havent touched the boss settings.
With that said most guns now days shoot well, so I cant really see the need to have a BOSS hanging off the end of the barrel. 
I also know that when it comes to the model 70 market a boss sytem detracts from the selling price. If I am looking for a quality donor to build a rifle on I look for a boss in 7mm mag first. As you can often buy them for between 4-500 in like new shape. The 90's era model 70s that have the boss are also often said to be of higher quality than the newer ones, but I havent known this to be true.


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## bwalker

> I have always loved lever action rifles.


 Me too. I have a Marlin 45-70 and a mint Win model 64 in .32 special.
The 45-70 has XS sights and is a blast to shoot/hunt with even though it doesnt do anything my bolt guns wont do and isnt near as versitile as they are. The 64 was my great uncles and I have only shot the thing a few times. It sits in a safe untouched except for a coat of oil a few times a year.


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## Timberhauler

I have a Win. model 70 30/06 in my gun cabinet.I bought it back in 96',and it has never been fired..I'm not sure why I even bought that rifle.I keep saying that I'm gonna scope it and go hunting with it.It's the only rifle I own that has not killed a deer.


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## bwalker

> I have a Win. model 70 30/06 in my gun cabinet.I bought it back in 96',and it has never been fired..I'm not sure why I even bought that rifle.I keep saying that I'm gonna scope it and go hunting with it.It's the only rifle I own that has not killed a deer.


 If you want to sell it I would be interested.


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## Timberhauler

I doubt I'll ever sell it...I went through a very tough time once and had to sell several rifles that I was very attatched to.I swore after that I would never sell another one of my guns again,unless extremely necessary...My wife just sold her Glock 30.She liked the gun,but didn't like it for what she intended to use it for...Do you do any re-loading?


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## wildbill458

I also hate to sell any guns.My father and I reload quite a bit on an old rcbs.We load more hanguns rounds on a dillion(44,454,480,and 500s)and also cast our 44s and 454s.


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## chainsawchick67

*Silly Guys!!*

You crazy guys. . . .I like BOWS!!!! LOL, nah, my first deer was with a gun, guns dont do much for me . . muzzeloding is good, thats bout it.


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## bwalker

> Do you do any re-loading?


I reload all my own ammo. I am on track to load well over 1500 rounds of rifle ammunition this year. Mostly 300 win mag, 25-06, 280,45-70 and 270.
I have to load 300 rounds of .300 winny ammo next week when i return home for a few days as I am almost out.


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## wildbill458

That is a lot of rifle ammo.I would guess about 15lbs of powder.Do you load 180 gr bullets in that 300?


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## bwalker

Mostly 200gr bullets in the .300 as they kick the worst, which is great for conditioning ones self to recoil.


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## Timberhauler

We bought this house three years ago,and for the first time in my adult life,I finally have a place to set up everything and start doing it,I just haven't gotten around to getting started yet...But it's something I'm really looking forward to.


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## Timberhauler

What kind of set-up do you have?


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## bwalker

I have a Forster Co-AX press, Lyman trimmer, Lyman DPS-1200 electronic dispenser/scale, Forster BR charge dropper and use Forster, Redding and some Lee collet dies.


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## Timberhauler

I'm gonna probably try and get started before the end of the summer to see if I can cook up some accurate and effective deer loads before the season starts.


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## bwalker

RCBS sells a kit with everything you need. Its a good place to start.


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## Timberhauler

I looked at a Remington model seven...Laminated stainless today.This one was a .308,but I think I'm gonna buy my daughter the exact same rifle but in a 7mm-08...That way if she don't like it or doesn't like hunting I'll have me a new toy.


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## 046

another vote for the RCBS kit. it's got almost everything you need to get started reloading. best of all, press is of highest quality. so you will never out grow it. 

sure enough... right after I purchased my RCBS kit. ran into a deal on a reloading bench complete with all the supplies. the guy was a master engraver and had all the toys. 

so I ended up with two rock chucker reloading press. only purchased one .270 die, but got a butt load of dies of all different cal when I scored the reloading bench. 

reloading you own rounds brings down costs and allows you to customize your rounds. with my second press, I set up a portable reloading bench to take to range. that way I can change my loads on the fly. 



bwalker; said:


> RCBS sells a kit with everything you need. Its a good place to start.


----------



## rahtreelimbs

While reloading is cheaper..............you will soon find yourself shooting more!!!


Ben and I have had many discussions about guns and reloading..............the dude knows his shat!!!


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## bwalker

> best of all, press is of highest quality. so you will never out grow it.


 Never say never. I used a rock chucker for years, then I started micro managing and get real serious about producing accurate, concentric ammo and bought a Forster Co-AX. After using the Forster I would never go back. I still keep a Rock Chucker for some uses.


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## 046

hmmm.. never heard of the Foster Co=Ax http://www.forsterproducts.com/Pages/manual.htm

looks interesting... and a little different. you say it's worth the difference?



bwalker; said:


> Never say never. I used a rock chucker for years, then I started micro managing and get real serious about producing accurate, concentric ammo and bought a Forster Co-AX. After using the Forster I would never go back. I still keep a Rock Chucker for some uses.


----------



## weatherby guy

046 said:


> hmmm.. never heard of the Foster Co=Ax http://www.forsterproducts.com/Pages/manual.htm
> 
> looks interesting... and a little different. you say it's worth the difference?



forester without a doubt makes a great press.....many would say its the best. the press might be worth the extra money to someone who is a serious benchrest competitor or <stretch here>someone who has already addressed the areas of a target/hunting rifle that contribute to accuracy: barrel, bedding, trigger, scope and rings......etc.

The next assumption would be that one is following 'best practices' with respect to reloading <trial and error with respect to power weights, brands, bullet weights, brands, primer brands, case brands......seating depths..................etc.

At the end of the day if all of this work is being done the forester press MAY buy you a few tenths <I say may> of an inch off of your group size. I have several presses, a forester being one of them and quite honestly there might be a small difference with respect to group size. However for any hunting situation (Grizzly, Black Bear, Elk, Moose, coyotes, wolves...............etc) this difference is means nothing. A hardcore benchrest shooter or a guy who gets all wrapped up in things such as bullet runout <tools not necessary to , individually weighing bullets to ensure extreme consistency,......etc is probably best servered with this press. Case in point, I can reload my 340 or 378 Weatherby on a dillion progressive (not the first choice for serious rifle reloaders) to about the same level as I can on my Forester <talking .1 to .2 difference between the two presses>. If you can steal a forester pick it up. If not pick up a RockChucker, quality dies (Redding), a few other basic components and you will have a quantum leap toward benchrest shooting accuracy. Keep in mind with respect to reloading you quickly hit the wall of diminishing returns <concentric/runout measuring equipment, case neck turning> after you cover the basics.


----------



## ShoerFast

weatherby guy said:


> forester without a doubt makes a great press.....many would say its the best. the press might be worth the extra money to someone who is a serious benchrest competitor or <stretch here>someone who has already addressed the areas of a target/hunting rifle that contribute to accuracy: barrel, bedding, trigger, scope and rings......etc.
> 
> The next assumption would be that one is following 'best practices' with respect to reloading <trial and error with respect to power weights, brands, bullet weights, brands, primer brands, case brands......seating depths..................etc.
> 
> At the end of the day if all of this work is being done the forester press MAY buy you a few tenths <I say may> of an inch off of your group size. I have several presses, a forester being one of them and quite honestly there might be a small difference with respect to group size. However for any hunting situation (Grizzly, Black Bear, Elk, Moose, coyotes, wolves...............etc) this difference is means nothing. A hardcore benchrest shooter or a guy who gets all wrapped up in things such as bullet runout <tools not necessary to , individually weighing bullets to ensure extreme consistency,......etc is probably best with this press. Case in point, I can reload my 340 or 378 on a progressive (not the first choice for serious rifle reloaders) to about the same level as I can on my Forester <talking .1 to .2 difference between the two presses>. If you can steal a forester pick it up. If not pick up a RockChucker, quality dies (Redding), a few other basic components and you will have a quantum leap toward benchrest shooting accuracy. Keep in mind with respect to reloading you quickly hit the wall of diminishing returns <concentric/ measuring equipment, case neck turning> after you cover the basics.



What a good post! 

Yes, not to mention the guy spending too much time on the bench has nothing to the guy that can just plain hunt and shoot! 

Bench rifles have nothing to do with a full-resized hunting loads, there a world apart. Bench rifles <should say a lot of them> get there best accuracy with neck-sizing only, at reduced from maximum loads, and maximum total "AOL" length. Knowing or not knowing the difference between 450 or 500 yards demonstrates the lean towards the maximum velocity load. Many rifles will shoot a little harder with a shorter overall cartridge length then bench-rifles, Roy Weatherby even went to the extreme of free-boring* some of his early hunting rifles, and was always good for a couple hundred more FPS.

IWO , There will be less standard deviation with a hotter bullet then then the slightly slower bullet, speed and a flatter trajectory will win every time, at an unknown distance. 

*Free-boring the taper into the rifling would allow heaver bullets to accelerate before hitting the rifling, keeping total pressures down, at a slight cost to stability.


----------



## bwalker

QUOTE]what a good post[/QUOTE]
I second that.
The Co-Ax is justa nother thing to play with.



> Bench rifles have nothing to do with a full-resized hunting loads, there a world apart. Bench rifles <should say a lot of them> get there best accuracy with neck-sizing only, at reduced from maximum loads, and maximum total "AOL" length.


 While it may have been true in the past today most BR guys partially full length re-size. Neck sizing was actually found in many cases to produce less concentric ammuntion hence the BR guys dropped the practice. With that said I neck size all my practice ammo using Lee collet dies because its faster and I dont have to lube cases. As for the reduced loads thing. I dont know if this was true in the past but in the present many guys run loads hot enough to scare you. Especially the 1000 yard BR guys. In my expierance most rifles get there best accuracy with loads at or approaching max. Powders actually perform best when they are not used in reduced pressure loads.
BY AOL, I think you are reffering to COL or Cartridge Overall Length. Most BR guys run their bullet slightly into the lands. For hunting rifles with certain bullets I will do this as well if the magazine allows it. for other bullets, like Barnes TSX I like to run them well off. Just depends on the laod, rifle and bullet your using. The only way to know is to test off a bench.


> *Free-boring the taper into the rifling would allow heaver bullets to accelerate before hitting the rifling, keeping total pressures down, at a slight cost to stability.


 Free bore is the amount is the distance the bullet jumps before touching the rifling. The taper(sometimes its not tapered)you refer to is actually called the throat. Free bore does keep pressure down, but it also is detrimental in ost cases to accuracy. It has no effect on stability as that is determinged by the relationship between velocity, twist rate and bullet length.



> IWO , There will be less standard deviation with a hotter bullet then then the slightly slower bullet, speed and a flatter trajectory will win every time, at an unknown distance.


 Standard of devation can be excellant with heavy, slow bullets or light fast ones. It just depends.



> Yes, not to mention the guy spending too much time on the bench has nothing to the guy that can just plain hunt and shoot!


 The guy that spends all his time on the bench is more prepared than the guy that shots a few shells a year. However, there is no replacement for shooting forom field positions.
The guys that care enough to get their guns shooting well also are the same type of guys the spend the time scouting. Time spent= results.


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## 046

not a bench rest guy. so a tenth is not critical for me. 
I'm a hunter... last week I shot 1,000+ rounds through my Beeman R7 air rifle. almost all unsupported off-hand shots. trigger is set at 8oz

just so happens my Weatherby .270 is one of Roy Weatherby's earliest guns based off a mauser action with custom work throughout. trigger is set at 1lb 4oz

here's a pic of Weatherby .270 w/Unertl scope
second pic is Beeman R7 w/ Leupold 3.5x10 - 50mm EFR scope.














ShoerFast; said:


> What a good post!
> 
> Yes, not to mention the guy spending too much time on the bench has nothing to the guy that can just plain hunt and shoot!
> 
> Bench rifles have nothing to do with a full-resized hunting loads, there a world apart. Bench rifles <should say a lot of them> get there best accuracy with neck-sizing only, at reduced from maximum loads, and maximum total "AOL" length. Knowing or not knowing the difference between 450 or 500 yards demonstrates the lean towards the maximum velocity load. Many rifles will shoot a little harder with a shorter overall cartridge length then bench-rifles, Roy Weatherby even went to the extreme of free-boring* some of his early hunting rifles, and was always good for a couple hundred more FPS.
> 
> IWO , There will be less standard deviation with a hotter bullet then then the slightly slower bullet, speed and a flatter trajectory will win every time, at an unknown distance.
> 
> *Free-boring the taper into the rifling would allow heaver bullets to accelerate before hitting the rifling, keeping total pressures down, at a slight cost to stability.


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> The Co-Ax is justa nother thing to play with.
> 
> 
> While it may have been true in the past today most BR guys partially full length re-size. Neck sizing was actually found in many cases to produce less concentric ammuntion hence the BR guys dropped the practice. With that said I neck size all my practice ammo using Lee collet dies because its faster and I dont have to lube cases. As for the reduced loads thing. I dont know if this was true in the past but in the present many guys run loads hot enough to scare you. Especially the 1000 yard BR guys. In my expierance most rifles get there best accuracy with loads at or approaching max. Powders actually perform best when they are not used in reduced pressure loads.
> BY AOL, I think you are reffering to COL or Cartridge Overall Length. Most BR guys run their bullet slightly into the lands. For hunting rifles with certain bullets I will do this as well if the magazine allows it. for other bullets, like Barnes TSX I like to run them well off. Just depends on the laod, rifle and bullet your using. The only way to know is to test off a bench.
> 
> Free bore is the amount is the distance the bullet jumps before touching the rifling. The taper(sometimes its not tapered)you refer to is actually called the throat. Free bore does keep pressure down, but it also is detrimental in ost cases to accuracy. It has no effect on stability as that is determinged by the relationship between velocity, twist rate and bullet length.
> 
> 
> Standard of devation can be excellant with heavy, slow bullets or light fast ones. It just depends.
> 
> 
> The guy that spends all his time on the bench is more prepared than the guy that shots a few shells a year. However, there is no replacement for shooting forom field positions.
> The guys that care enough to get their guns shooting well also are the same type of guys the spend the time scouting. Time spent= results.




Yawn, 

Grow up, would ya?

Most come here to enjoy there time, share things, and learn. 

Not even going to touch an idea you have there lil-benny, you not worth the time, you make a point here and there, but are here to impress yourself with your "book-smarts" about like everything else you try here.There are some here ben reloading since the time the Doc took the shine off your hinny.

Perhaps there is a disassociation you need to justify yourself with, something about a sliver-spoon? As the chip you carry on your shoulder has definitely effected your aim.

For everybody else, and just a point of discussion, free-boreing rifles are everything the a hunting rifle, and nothing to a bench-rifle. <in a nutshell, I'm not here to argue > Just as a flatter trajectories is everything to unsure distances, very common in a hunting , varying light situation.


----------



## ShoerFast

046 said:


> not a bench rest guy. so a tenth is not critical for me.
> I'm a hunter... last week I shot 1,000+ rounds through my Beeman R7 air rifle. almost all unsupported off-hand shots. trigger is set at 8oz
> 
> just so happens my Weatherby .270 is one of Roy Weatherby's earliest guns based off a mauser action with custom work throughout. trigger is set at 1lb 4oz
> 
> here's a pic of Weatherby .270 w/Unertl scope
> second pic is Beeman R7 w/ Leupold 3.5x10 - 50mm EFR scope.



The late Jack O'Conner was a 270 fan, and hunted at the guide school I went to, his pictures were everywhere. Very impressive to hear first hand stories of him! Like him taking crows off a tree at nearly 400 yards!

For a time I had an ElGamo air-pistol that I think taught me how to shoot better off-hand, very accurate!


----------



## bwalker

> Most come here to enjoy there time, share things, and learn.


 Its hard to learn when incorrect info is passed off as being factual. Especially so when it appears you have several terms confused.
Wouldnt you agree?



> free-boreing rifles are everything the a hunting rifle,


 Uh, Yea. Its so great the only one using it is Weatherby. And only then as a band aid to cover for the fact that their factory ammo would have dangerously high pressures if shot in regular chambers.

BTW with the advent of laser rang finders distance is very easy to compensate for. Its windage thats tougher to judge and compensate for.
Besides how often is range even a issue? Most guns can be sighted for a point blank rnage of over 300 yards. The problem is most people cant hit chit at that distance, never mind that fact that most game is shot under 200 anyways.


----------



## bwalker

> just so happens my Weatherby .270 is one of Roy Weatherby's earliest guns based off a mauser action with custom work throughout. trigger is set at 1lb 4oz


 Nice gun. The FN built weatherby's are sought after by Weatheby collecters.


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## ShoerFast

*Rember we're talking hunting here,,,,,,*



bwalker said:


> If you say so,lol....



Quote the whole quote or nothing, _"For everybody else, and just a point of *discussion*, free-boreing rifles are everything the a hunting rifle, and nothing to a bench-rifle. <in a nutshell, *I'm not here to argue* > Just as a flatter trajectories is everything to unsure distances, very common in a hunting , varying light situation." _
Pulling words out shows the tactics of a stooge.



bwalker said:


> Its hard to learn when incorrect info is passed off as being factual.
> Wouldnt you agree?
> .



Do you mean bad information like this,,,,,,



bwalker said:


> . Powders actually perform best when they are not used in reduced pressure loads.
> ..


 As many Gun and barrel Smiths hang tags on there undersized bench rifling that reads "CAUTION DO NOT USE FACTORY AMMO!" 

Or this one?



bwalker said:


> Standard of devation can be excellant with heavy, slow bullets or light fast ones. It just depends.
> .




As it has been well mentioned that "slandered deviation" at an *unknown distance* will be less with a flatter trajectory. Elk season here starts each day at 1/2 hour before daybreak, on an overcast day, fog , rain or snow, the average hunting scope can not give you an accurate distance, shoot flat or stay in the truck. 

lil-Benny lacks the integrity to deserve an explanation, as he would only argue the point, but again, for everyone else, this is a chart I will guide the average hunter on.

Cartridge ([email protected]) Bullet BC 100 yds. 200 yds. [email protected] MPBR (yds.) 
.17 HMR (17 SP at 2550) .123 +1.5" -5.5" 1.5"@100 165 
.204 Ruger (33 BT at 4225) .185 +1.1" +1.0" 1.5"@150 275 
.22 LR (40 HP at 1255) .100 -3.0" -40.9" 1.5"@45 90 
.22 WMR (40 HP at 1910) .100 +0.5" -19.0" 1.5"@65 123 
.222 Rem. (50 Sp at 3140) .220 +1.4" -0.4" 1.5"@118 222 
.223 Rem. (45 Sp at 3550) .167 +1.4" +0.2" 1.5"@130 235 
.223 Rem. (55 SP at 3240) .235 +1.4" +/- 0" 1.5"@120 230 
.22-250 Rem. (55 SP at 3600) .235 +1.3" +0.6" 1.5"@135 254 
.220 Swift (55 SP at 3800) .235 +1.2" +0.9" 1.5"@140 264 
.223 WSSM (55 SP at 3800) .235 +1.2" +0.9" 1.5"@140 264 
.243 Win. (80 Sp at 3350) .255 +1.3" +0.2" 1.5"@125 237 
.243 Win. (100 Sp at 2960) .351 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@140 283 
6mm Rem. (100 Sp at 3100) .351 +2.5" +2.2" 3"@150 296 
.243 WSSM (100 Sp at 3100) .351 +2.5" +2.2" 3"@150 296 
6x62mm Freres (100 Sp at 3300) .351 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 312 
.240 Wby. Mag. (100 Sp at 3400) .351 +2.4" +2.6" 3"@160 322 
.257 Roberts (120 Sp at 2780) .391 +2.7" +1.6" 3"@125 271 
.25 WSSM (120 Sp at 2990) .391 +2.5" +2.0" 3"@145 291 
.25-06 Rem. (120 Sp at 2990) .391 +2.5" +2.0" 3"@145 291 
.257 Wby. Mag. (120 Sp at 3305) .391 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@155 317 
6.5x55 (140 Sp at 2645) .435 +2.7" +1.2" 3"@125 260 
.260 Rem. (140 Sp at 2750) .435 +2.7" +1.6" 3"@125 271 
6.5mm Rem. Mag. (120 Sp at 3210) .433 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 312 
6.5x68 S (140 Sp at 2990) .435 +2.6" +2.1" 3"@150 294 
.264 Win. Mag. (140 Sp at 3100) .435 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 303 
6.8mm Rem. SPC (115 Sp at 2800) .325 +2.6" +1.3" 3"@130 267 
.*270 Win. (130 Sp at 3140)* .416 +2.5" +2.4" 3"@150 *305 *
.*270 Win. (150 Sp at 2900) .481* +2.6" +2.0" 3"@138 *287 *
.270 WSM (150 Sp at 3150) .481 +2.5" +2.4" 3"@150 311 
.270 Wby. Mag. (150 Sp at 3245) .481 +2.4" +2.6" 3"@160 320 
7x57 (140 BT at 2660) .485 +2.7" +1.3" 3"@125 264 
7mm-08 Rem. (140 BT at 2860) .485 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@140 285 
.280 Rem. (140 BT at 3000) .485 +2.6" +2.2" 3"@150 298 
7mm SAUM (150 Sp at 3110) .456 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 305 
7mm WSM (150 Sp at 3200) .456 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 314 
7mm Rem. Mag. (150 Sp at 3110) .456 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 305 
7mm Wby. Mag. (154 SP at 3260) .433 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 317 
7mm Ultra Mag (160 Sp at 3200) .475 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 314 
.30 Carbine (110 RN at 1990) .144 +2.8" -8.2" 3"@85 171 
*.30-30 Win. (150 FP at 2390)* .268 +2.9" -0.6" 3"@110 *225 *
*.30-30 Win. (170 FP at 2200)* .304 +2.9" -1.8" 3"@105 *211 *
.300 Sav. (150 BT at 2630) .435 +2.8" +1.2" 3"@125 259 
*.308 Win. (150 BT at 2800)* .435 +2.7" +1.7" 3"@135 *275 *
*.308 Win. (180 Sp at 2610)* .483 +2.8" +1.2" 3"@125 *259 *
*.30-06 (150 BT at 2910)* .435 +2.6" +2.0" 3"@145 *287 *
*.30-06 (180 Sp at 2700)* .483 +2.7" +1.5" 3"@125 *269 *
.300 SAUM (165 Sp at 3075) .410 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@145 300 
.300 WSM (180 Sp at 2970) .483 +2.6" +2.2" 3"@150 294 
.300 Win. Mag. (180 Sp at 3070) .483 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 303 
.300 Wby. Mag. (180 Sp at 3250) .483 +2.4" +2.6" 3"@155 320 
.300 Ultra Mag (180 Sp at 3250) .483 +2.4" +2.6" 3"@155 320 
7.62x39 (123 Sp at 2365) .292 +2.9" -0.5" 3"@110 225 
.303 Br. (150 Sp at 2723) .411 +2.8" +1.5" 3"@130 267 
.32 Spec. (170 FP at 2250) .297 +3.0" -1.3" 3"@105 215 
8x57JS (200 Sp at 2650) .426 +2.8" +1.2" 3"@125 260 
.325 WSM (180 Sp at 2975) .394 +2.6" +2.0" 3"@140 289 
8x68 S (150 Sp at 3300) .369 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 316 
.338-57 O'Connor (200 FP at 2400) .200 +2.9" -0.3" 3"@110 214 
.338 Win. Mag. (200 BT at 2960) .414 +2.6" +2.1" 3"@150 289 
.340 Wby. Mag. (250 Sp at 2941) .473 +2.6" +2.1" 3"@150 291 
.338 Ultra Mag (250 Sp at 2860) .473 +2.7" +1.9" 3"@140 285 
.357 Mag. (158 FP at 1830) .158 +2.7" -10.5" 3"@85 163 
.35 Rem. (200 RN at 2080) .180 +2.9" -5.1" 3"@93 186 
.35 Whelen (200 Sp at 2700) .295 +2.8" +1.0" 3"@125 254 
.350 Rem. Mag. (200 Sp at 2775) .295 +2.7" +1.3" 3"@125 260 
9.3x62 (270 SSp at 2550) .361 +2.8" +0.7" 3"@125 247 
.375 H&H Mag. (270 SP at 2690) .380 +2.7" +1.3" 3"@130 260 
.375 Ultra Mag (300 SP at 2800) .398 +2.7" +1.7" 3"@125 273 
.378 Wby. Mag. (300 Sp at 2935) .398 +2.6" +2.0" 3"@140 285 
.416 Rigby (400 RN at 2400) .316 +2.9" -0.1" 3"@115 231 
.416 Rem. Mag. (400 RN at 2400) .316 +2.9" -0.1" 3"@115 231 
.44 Rem. Mag. (240 FP at 1760) .165 +2.6" -11.6" 3"@75 159 
.444 Marlin (240 FP at 2350) .165 +3.0" -2.6" 3"@100 203 
.450 Marlin (350 RN at 2100) .189 +3.0" -4.5" 3"@100 189 
.*45-70 (300 HP at 1800)* .197 +2.7" -9.2" 3"@85 *166 *
.*45-70 (405 FP at 1330) *.214 +1.3" -22.9" 3"@65 *131 *
.458 Win. Mag. (500 RN at 2100) .295 +3.0" -2.9" 3"@100 200 
.460 Wby. Mag. (500 RN at 2600) .295 +2.8" +0.6" 3"@116 246 

It is better seen here: http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm

Here is my point if you note how much better rifles like the 
.270 dose better with a 130GR then a 150GR

30-30 dose better with a 150GR then a 170GR

30-06 & a .308 dose better with a 150GR then a 180GR

45-70 dose better with a 300GR then a 405GR

As I mentioned before, I am not here to argue, but for the point of discussion!


----------



## bwalker

> Do you mean bad information like this,,,,,,


Thats 100% factual. Modern, slow burning powders work best as loads approach max....


> Or this one?


 Again I am 100% factual as Standard of Deviation has nothing to do with bullet weight. Rather its a measure of how spread out your data is.



> As many Gun and barrel Smiths hang tags on there undersized bench rifling that reads "CAUTION DO NOT USE FACTORY AMMO!"
> 
> Or this one?


 They do so because bench guns are often chambered with custom, tight neck reamers that require case neck turnign to use. A factory shell will not chamber in these guns. 


> As it has been well mentioned that "slandered deviation" at an unknown distance will be less with a flatter trajectory


 More ignorance and a real lack of understanding about what SD is and what it isnt..




> Here is my point if you note how much better rifles like the
> .270 dose better with a 130GR then a 150GR
> 
> 30-30 dose better with a 150GR then a 170GR
> 
> 30-06 & a .308 dose better with a 150GR then a 180GR
> 
> 45-70 dose better with a 300GR then a 405GR
> 
> As I mentioned before, I am not here to argue, but for the point of discussion!
> Today 10:57 AM


 The comparision is quit useless as the bullets compared are not of the same type and design. You should know this. I can assure you that a 200gr Nosler accubond bullet fired out of a 300 mag at 3000 will have a flatter trajectory at 600 yards than a 165 accubond fired at 3200.
Again if you dont believe me take a look at the equipment used by the 1000 yard bench rest guys. They always use heavy for caliber, high BC bullets like the 210 and 240gr matchking and the 210 Berger VLD.
Dont take my word for it? Here are the numbers straight from Remington on your 7mm rem mag. http://www.remington.com/products/a...allistics_results.aspx?data=PRA7MMRA*PRA7MMRB
Notice the 150 surpases the 140 in velocity and actually has more energy at all ranges.
Lets also look at the 300 win mag. http://www.remington.com/products/a...ve_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R300W1*R300W2
And I could care less about the inccorrect conclusion drawn by some gas bag like Chuck Hawks.


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> The comparision is quit useless as the bullets compared are not of the same type and design. .



Again, not here to argue, but glad you pointed out how usless Chuck Hawks chart is,,,,, as your wrong again, it furthers the point. 

Take a closer look at the examples I chose, as the more optimal bullit has a lower BC in every case, but shoots further. 

In the header of the previous post I mentioned that this is a hunting thread, not a play with the scope knobs, and range finder thread. 

There is nothing better then having the cook meet your pack-string and excepting an elk back-strap for supper, now that is what I'm talking about,,,,not running around till midnight for poorly hit game.


----------



## bwalker

> Again, not here to argue, but glad you pointed out how usless Chuck Hawks chart is,,,,, as your wrong again, it furthers the point.
> 
> Take a closer look at the examples I chose, as the more optimal bullit has a lower BC in every case, but shoots further.
> 
> In the header of the previous post I mentioned that this is a hunting thread, not a play with the scope knobs, and range finder thread.


 Your not arguing with me, your arguing with well excepted ballistic fact.
Again look at the calculations posted using Remingtons web site.
Chuck is comparing apples to oranges.
It goes with out saying that in order to interpret data you must have a basic knowledge of the subject at hand. You cant seem to grasp the fact that comparing a boat tail 130 to a flat base 150 isnt a valid comparision...
BTW your also forgeting one important thing. that is what the bullet does after it hits game.


----------



## bwalker

BTW even with your apples to pears comparision the differance between the ones you cherry picked is on average 20 yards. Does 20 yard increase in MPBR trump energy and penetration in the field? Me thinks not.


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> Your not arguing with me your arguing with well excepted ballistic facts.
> Again look at the calculations posted using Remingtons web site.
> Chucks is comparing apples to oranges.
> It goes with out saying that in order to interpret data you must have a basic knowledge of the subject at hand. You cant seem to grasp the fact that comparing a boat tail 130 to a flat base 150 isnt a valid comparision...




Having mentioned it before that benny may just wish to argue, it is a strange chip he has on his shoulder.. 

By all means use the loads you use, and every aspect to your argument you wish, the bottom line is the amount of time the bullet is in the air, less time, less drop, that is not an arguable item, I'm talking about busting game in the heart and eating it, sometimes with port-bellow mushrooms and butter! 
Not talking about applying a lot of "book smarts" and making a mistake on a marginal shot on something that looked closer in the scope then it really was, and pulling the dark-hairs off the bottom of the rib-cage.

In the other direction, there is a place on an elk < and deer , bear moose,,,most everything > that a bullet or an arrow can pass and do very little serious damage. < more of a problem with marginal calibers & arrows >

The slot below the spine , but above the lung, will make a better tracker out of anyone, if a flatter trajectory bullet can avoid this, why not use it?

Again, not here to argue, If benny was right, why are even muzzle-loaders - shotgun/slug hunters going to the sabot bullets?*

*Shoot flatter, or stay in camp and talk bs-listics.


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> BTW even with your *apples* to *pears* comparision the differance between the ones you cherry picked is on average 20 yards. Does 20 yard increase in MPBR trump energy and penetration in the field? Me thinks not.



What a chip on your shoulder, are you drinking enough water?

Way back in post #111 , I made a point of discussion, you chose to mention how ignorant I am,


bwalker said:


> Your showing your ignorance..
> .





I agreed with that, I'm not that bright, but one h311 of a guide. 

But your wrong again about the retained energy,,,and this was taken right from the Nolser web-site using the same style bullet, or oranges if it suits you?

Here is what I posted:



ShoerFast said:


> There is a chance, if you want ultimate performance down range, you would want to start with 140GR's for a 7MM, as they will have a flatter trajectory and retain more energy at 400 years.
> 
> I consider the 7MM to have an effective range of slightly more then 400 with 140gr. slightly less with 160gr's
> 
> A 160 leaving the barrel at 2940 will have about 3110 foot#'s of energy, but show up late at 400 yards with 1822 pounds of energy, 19.5" low with a 200 yard zero.
> 
> The 140GR will leave the barrel at 3250 with 3260 pounds of energy, get to the elk sooner, drop only 15.8 inches with 1890 pounds of energy, same zero, same CUP of chamber pressure, and it feels like a little less felt recoil to me.
> 
> (give or take, I'm sure there are a lot of differnt loads, but avrage them all, and the 140gr will be a better choice for most in a 7MM)



It's simple bs-listicks, put this in your calculator,,,,

Flatter trajectory + more energy = more elk on the table

Tell me again about apples and pears?


----------



## bwalker

You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.....
Here are some numbers for my 7mm ultra. Looks like the heavier bullet has more velocity and energy at 400....big supprise...not.
http://www.remington.com/products/a..._ballistics_results.aspx?data=PR7UM1*PRSC7UM1

How about federals data for the 7mm rem mag.
140gr tsx energy at 400 yards= 1514, velocity at 400= 2207

160gr tsx energy at 400= 1787, velocity at 400= 2243.

Looks like the 160 won the drag race to 400!

Read em and weep


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.....



And when they drink, what end appears higher?


----------



## 046

hunted deer for years... didn't see sh*t! never got a shot, until I hooked up with a good friend of mine. He's got more woods smarts than anyone I know. 

went hunting with him a few seasons and learned the in's and out's of how to hunt deer. like scent is everything! deer use their scent abilities as their major defense. 

like how to stalk and importances of knowing the land you hunt on. when you're headed to your chosen spot at 5:30am and it's pitch dark. you'd better know exactly where you're headed. sure you could turn on the flash light, but jury's still out if that alerts the deer. 

natural funnels are where deer are more likely to pass. most importantly you've got to go hunting a number of times ... if you hope to kill any deer. 

as for hitting the deer come time to shoot. don't know about anyone else, but for me it's all about muscle memory. under pressure when a real life shot is to be taken. 

if you choke or not depends upon how much work you've put into shooting. back to the muscle memory... my theory is if you put in thousands of shots in practice. one is more likely to perform under duress of a real hunting situation. 

fresh backstraps and eggs for breakfast the next morning is deluxe as it gets!

works for me! your mileage of course may veri


----------



## ShoerFast

046 said:


> hunted deer for years... didn't see sh*t! never got a shot, until I hooked up with a good friend of mine. He's got more woods smarts than anyone I know.
> 
> went hunting with him a few seasons and learned the in's and out's of how to hunt deer. like scent is everything! deer use their scent abilities as their major defense.
> 
> like how to stalk and importances of knowing the land you hunt on. when you're headed to your chosen spot at 5:30am and it's pitch dark. you'd better know exactly where you're headed. sure you could turn on the flash light, but jury's still out if that alerts the deer.
> 
> natural funnels are where deer are more likely to pass. most importantly you've got to go hunting a number of times ... if you hope to kill any deer.
> 
> as for hitting the deer come time to shoot. don't know about anyone else, but for me it's all about muscle memory. under pressure when a real life shot is to be taken.
> 
> if you choke or not depends upon how much work you've put into shooting. back to the muscle memory... my theory is if you put in thousands of shots in practice. one is more likely to perform under duress of a real hunting situation.
> 
> *fresh backstraps and eggs for breakfast the next morning is deluxe as it gets!*
> 
> works for me! your mileage of course may veri



 

Yup!


----------



## bwalker

> fresh backstraps and eggs for breakfast the next morning is deluxe as it gets!


 I dunno. Some inner loins and morel mushrooms pan fried with a little butter and garlic is tough to beat.


----------



## ShoerFast

O46

Inside a deer's spinal cavity, there are 2 muscles of meat , no butcher here, but I think there called the "fillet moungon" <and I'm I butchered that spelling>. But there at the lower end , in-side or both sides of the back-bone, look just above were the kidneys were. 

You cam pull those strips out with your fingers. 

A recipe I like, is take those strips and cut them about an inch thick like you would cut a chunk of sausage. 

Take those "cookies" and place them on a block of firewood, and with another block, square off and smack that cookie, (end-grain of the loin up) it will flair out to a burger size cookie, fry it in bacon-grease,,,,, look around and be real quite, cause I would be coming from the down wind!


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> I dunno. Some inner loins and morel mushrooms pan fried with a little butter and garlic is tough to beat.




Yup, that's the ones, that's what it's all about!


----------



## bwalker

You would be supprised at the guys that either are not aware of these tasty loins or they refuse to eat them. Fine by me.
Elk have something simular?


----------



## 046

Mmmmmm... making me hungry!



ShoerFast; said:


> O46
> 
> Inside a deer's spinal cavity, there are 2 muscles of meat , no butcher here, but I think there called the "fillet moungon" <and I'm I butchered that spelling>. But there at the lower end , in-side or both sides of the back-bone, look just above were the kidneys were.
> 
> You cam pull those strips out with your fingers.
> 
> A recipe I like, is take those strips and cut them about an inch thick like you would cut a chunk of sausage.
> 
> Take those "cookies" and place them on a block of firewood, and with another block, square off and smack that cookie, (end-grain of the loin up) it will flair out to a burger size cookie, fry it in bacon-grease,,,,, look around and be real quite, cause I would be coming from the down wind!


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> You would be supprised at the guys that either are not aware of these tasty loins or they refuse to eat them. Fine by me.
> Elk have something simular?



No

Inside were you would find the inner-loin, elk have just a small sliver of meat there, elk back-straps are huge, but out-side the cavity.

Both sides of the backbone or back vertebrae , just below the hide along the back,* there is a strap about 2.5 - 3" feet long on a big bull. 

Same thing, off a fresh kill you can peel them with your hands, and can be cooked the same way. 

Making a deal with all hunters, on a back-strap pool. First elk in camp, if the hunter joins, we cook one back-strap, hunters that are not in, I show them there supper,,,, show them anything, peanut-butter for sandwiches, any thing, never had anyone not join the pool. First elk, we roast up a back-strap, stihl gives the hunter one to bring home, and a memory! 

Here is a picture off my cousins web-link, Scott will sell a 2-3 pound "Loin Roast" for $32.95 + Shipping : http://www.mneba.org/directory/member.cfm?memberID=139 not plugging his ranch, just more fuel to hunt!


----------



## klickitatsacket

046 said:


> fresh backstraps and eggs for breakfast the next morning is deluxe as it gets!
> 
> works for me! your mileage of course may veri



Try letting it hang till it starts to green first then tell me how good it gets.
I let all my wild game hang until it starts to get a little fuzzy and then wipe it down with vinegar water. Then it's time to feast. all thisw talk of wild game, bullets and mushrooms is getting me hungry. Is it hunting season yet?
 BTW I am an 06 man all the way 168's.


----------



## bwalker

-06 is a fine round.
Wish I could let my game season properly, but most years it simply freezes as its too cold.


----------



## Timberhauler

ShoerFast said:


> O46
> 
> Inside a deer's spinal cavity, there are 2 muscles of meat , no butcher here, but I think there called the "fillet moungon" <and I'm I butchered that spelling>. But there at the lower end , in-side or both sides of the back-bone, look just above were the kidneys were.
> 
> You cam pull those strips out with your fingers.
> 
> A recipe I like, is take those strips and cut them about an inch thick like you would cut a chunk of sausage.
> 
> Take those "cookies" and place them on a block of firewood, and with another block, square off and smack that cookie, (end-grain of the loin up) it will flair out to a burger size cookie, fry it in bacon-grease,,,,, look around and be real quite, cause I would be coming from the down wind!


 My wife cooks them in the crock pot with potatoes,carrots,onions and garlic....That's good eatin'
Deer cube steak is good soaked in mustard,then double battered and fried


----------



## Trigger-Time

ShoerFast said:


> O46
> 
> Inside a deer's spinal cavity, there are 2 muscles of meat , no butcher here, but I think there called the "fillet moungon" <and I'm I butchered that spelling>. But there at the lower end , in-side or both sides of the back-bone, look just above were the kidneys were.
> 
> You cam pull those strips out with your fingers.
> 
> :



I grew up call those strips, the Fish, Thats what dad calls them. Never
ask why, just thought it was that they looked like fish fillets. I know
hogs, deer, rabbits and tree rats have them, Think any thing with a back bone
would have them.......some AS members won't have a fish then! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## ShoerFast

Trigger-Time said:


> I grew up call those strips, the Fish, Thats what dad calls them. Never
> ask why, just thought it was that they looked like fish fillets. I know
> hogs, deer, rabbits and tree rats have them, Think any thing with a back bone
> would have them.......some AS members won't have a fish then! :hmm3grin2orange:




 some huh?


----------



## DOLMARatOs

I'm a big fan of the Savage law enforcement series rifles (models 10FP) 308 WIN short action leaves a lasting impression on what it means to reach out and touch something.

Slightly strange to make ground-hogs and other varmints literally disappear at 300 plus yards. Expensive rifles to buy but accu-trigger is a beautiful thing.


----------



## 046

was kinda of warm last season... had a deer hanging and it started to get fuzzy... ended up throwing away that carcass.  

have never heard of anyone that likes it that way on purpose? 
wiping is down with vinegar sounds good to me.. I'll have to try it. 

I've let deer hang up to two weeks before, but temps never got over 45-50 degrees. really came out good!

it's been so warm... I'll quarter the deer and let age in an ice chest for a few days, instead of hanging. 



klickitatsacket; said:


> Try letting it hang till it starts to green first then tell me how good it gets.
> I let all my wild game hang until it starts to get a little fuzzy and then wipe it down with vinegar water. Then it's time to feast. all thisw talk of wild game, bullets and mushrooms is getting me hungry. Is it hunting season yet?
> BTW I am an 06 man all the way 168's.


----------



## bwalker

I shot a deer at first light one season and by the time I wa sback to camp at night it was frozen solid.
Every try to butcher a rock hard, frozen deer? Not fun.


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> I shot a deer at first light one season and by the time I wa sback to camp at night it was frozen solid.
> Every try to butcher a rock hard, frozen deer? Not fun.



Had a 6x bull freeze on me, had it at a friends place hanging from the bucket of his Ford loader. 

Wrapped the canvas of a GP-Medium wall-tent around the tractor bucket sort of tee-pee like around the elk, put 3 150W drop-lights inside under the hanging elk , but it still froze. 

Found that those 12" demolition blades on a sawsall and I'm one h311 of a butcher, but however you want your stake,,,, your getting a roast! Want some meat for chili?, heres your roast,,,, Whats for supper, elk roast,,, whats in the freezer, elk roast. 
To this day, my friend and I will see an elk somewhere and call out a number, like "30" , that would be our "roast" rating system anymore, he wants to get a card saying "Have Sawsall Will travel"


----------



## bwalker

The worst part about butchering frozen is removing the hide. Now, if I shoot one in real cold weather I skin while they are still warm. A fourwheeler, a round stone and some rope will skin deer in about 20 seconds....


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> The worst part about butchering frozen is removing the hide. Now, if I shoot one in real cold weather I skin while they are still warm. A fourwheeler, a round stone and some rope will skin deer in about 20 seconds....



In a shed, or skinning a warm deer near an air-compresser, take a brake-line screwed it into an air-chuck and balloon up the hide, then peel it. 

Sounds hokie as h311, but pops the hide loose from the bug-shaker mussels.


----------



## bwalker

I just hang em up by the hocks, peel the hide back a bit, wrap the hide around the rock, then tie the rope from the wheeler to the rock/hide and drive away.


----------



## ShoerFast

*Frendely Campfire bet?*

Hay Ben, are you a betting man?

Somewhere in this post of yours there is something wrong, and I'm not talking about your link to Remington, as we were talking 160 vs 140, that is a link comparing a 150GR bullet nicknamed "SST" and a 140GR nicknamed "CLUB" as I hope you see the apples/pears problim there. 

The campfire bet I would make would be in-line with my idea about bulistics.





bwalker said:


> You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.....
> Here are some numbers for my 7mm ultra. Looks like the heavier bullet has more velocity and energy at 400....big supprise...not.
> http://www.remington.com/products/a..._ballistics_results.aspx?data=PR7UM1*PRSC7UM1
> 
> How about federals data for the 7mm rem mag.
> 140gr tsx energy at 400 yards= 1514, velocity at 400= 2207
> 
> 160gr tsx energy at 400= 1787, velocity at 400= 2243.
> 
> Looks like the 160 won the drag race to 400!
> 
> Read em and weep



Tell ya what I have to bet, I would build a hunting knife to your specs, one that would shave the ink off of news-paper, are you a betting man?


----------



## bwalker

> that is a link comparing a 150GR bullet nicknamed "SST" and a 140GR nicknamed "CLUB" as I hope you see the apples/pears problim there.


 The remington Link is for the 140gr Coreloct ultra and the 150 is a swift scirrocco. Its pretty relivant givent the original discussion centered around my 7mm ultra. The best comparision would be with identical bullet types, but with the ultra this wasnt possible. It was possible for the 7mm rem mag data I posted though.
The other data for the 140, and 160 TSX is straight from federals website and proves that BC rules the day, all things being equal(they usually are not BTW)...
Not a man to make bets, but since your talking about knives I sure could like this one.
http://geneingramknives.blademakers.com/

Given my propensity to lose knives I think I will stick with the cheap ones though.


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> The remington Link is for the 140gr Coreloct ultra and the 150 is a swift scirrocco. Its pretty relivant givent the original discussion centered around my 7mm ultra. The best comparision would be with identical bullet types, but with the ultra this wasnt possible. It was possible for the 7mm rem mag data I posted though.
> The other data for the 140, and 160 TSX is straight from federals website and proves that BC rules the day, all things being equal(they usually are not BTW)...
> Not a man to make bets, but since your talking about knives I sure could like this one.
> http://geneingramknives.blademakers.com/
> 
> Given my propensity to lose knives I think I will stick with the cheap ones though.




Dang, as this in some way make this interesting.

That knive would be fairly easy to do, I would forge it however, just my thing there. 

There are some 150's that will beat 140's and I speak of bulistics more on a rule then a few exceptions. Sure wish you were a betting man here, as it would also , for the point of discussion, make my point!

As i see a huge mistake in your Federal data., or the "Drag Race" as you call it.


----------



## bwalker

What mistakes might that be?


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> What mistakes might that be?



It is just simply wrong data.


----------



## bwalker

How so? I am looking at it right now.


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> How so? I am looking at it right now.




Check your pm's


----------



## ShoerFast

bwalker said:


> How so? I am looking at it right now.




Federal is wrong, at 400 yards, with a Barnes "TSX" Bullet, in a Federal Premium "Vital-Shok" in 7MM Rim Mag,,,,

The 160TSX leaving the barrel @ 2940fps would drop 16.8" still be moving at 2067fps with 1518 ft/lbs of energy.

The 140TSX leaving the barrel @ 3120fps would drop 14.6" still be moving at 2217fps with 1528 ft'lbs of energy.

Here is a fairly nice balliastics calcuater:

Edit: At 400 yards
I have not ran a felt-recoil check on these loads, but there is a fairly good chance that in a hunting weight rifle, the 140 would be easer to shoot?


----------



## Moss Man

Old thread, but what the heck.

Savage 99C Lever Action .308

Filled the freezer many times over.


----------



## Mad Professor

Pre-64 M70 Winchester, 3 X 9 Redfield w/leupold rings/base. 30-06 RP cases CCI primer 54 gr IMR 4350 and 180 Nolser Partion


----------



## indiansprings

Old favorite Remington 700 Custom Shop 7mm STW 26" barrel 
140 grain Barnes X 83.5 grs 7828 3680 fps flat shooting hits hard
Swarvorski 3x12x56 Professional Hunter

H.S. Precision Tactical in 300 WSM shoots .33 inch groups @ 100
Smidht&Bender PMII 3x12x56 illuminated reticle

Pre-64 Model 70 .264 mag Leopold 4 x 14x50

Pre-64 Model 70 .300 Win Mag

Pre-64 Model 70 .257 Roberts

Tikka 25-06 Zeiss 3x10

Tikka 270 WSM Shepherd Scope

Kimber 84M .270 WSM Zeiss 3x10

Favorite varmint rifle Remington Model 7 action Schiender Barrel
22-250 ackley improved 6x24 Burris


----------



## Labman

No mention of the Krag?


----------



## M.R.

iirc approx. 140 posts to get to my #1 caliber the .338 Win. Mag..

I like to shoot the Speer 275 GR. Semi-Spitzer the best which Speer has dropped a few years back.


----------



## WesternSaw

*Rifle*

My favorite rifle for medium to big game is My Remington Classic in 30/06.I also have a .22 ruger I love that rotating magazine.


----------



## rngrchad

*Varmit Long Range*

Fav rifle is:
22-250 Bull Barrel Savage 1 and 12 twist w/ fluted and floated barrel. 4lb trigger pull and synthetic stock.

Die groundhog die.


----------



## KD57

My long range gun, Savage .243 and it's one heavy rifle to carry.


----------



## weimedog

The one thats put almost all the hunting successes in my freezer over time...an old 30-06 built from an Enfield action. Started life as a 1917 Enfield and lost all its wood in favor of a Fajen Stock blank finished by a much younger me. Had it blued and the barrel cut & crowned at 24.5 inches. The trigger was massaged by this guy in Colorado (Jerry Shoop) to break at 2.5lbs. The bolt is "Cock on open" modified from its origional military form worked by the same guy who did the trigger. Whittled at that stock for almost 10 years untill it was just right. (That was 20 years ago) It gained a Leupold Variex II 3X9 Scope somewhere in Colorado in the late 1980's early 90's. It has always printed better than 1.5 inch 5 round groups reguardles of ammo. Still does. Its a 9 lb load. I've bought brand new rifles through out the years to obsolete the old junker, but they have all been sold and its still here.


----------



## 2000ssm6

Here is my Rem 700 in .270wsm, Burris FF2 3x-9x-50mm. My first choice if it's not raining.







The Mini14, Burris FF2 3x-9x-40mm, for when it's raining.


----------



## RCR 3 EVER

Savage 99C .308 lever action with a Leupold 2.5x-8x VariX-III scope, 180 grain Nosler Partition ammo. No deer seen and shot at escaped this combo.


----------



## ropensaddle

*You guy's don't give them a chance lol*

I use my Mathews mq1 or my longbow I don't want no one finding my honey hole :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## RCR 3 EVER

My wife has a Remington 7mm-08 with a Burris 2x-8x scope, I do not particularly like the scope as it does not have much "light gathering" ability as mine does and eye relief is shorter. The lenses are also tinted. 

The Remington is lighter though to her liking but when I pick it up after hefting my Savage 99c around I almost throw her gun into the trees.:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## ross_scott

Well my 1902 Carl Gustav 6.5x55 would be the third rifle I have owned which I have put a Bushnell dusk and dawn 3-9 x 40 sighted in for 140Grn hornady ammo
the first was a Parker Hale .303 British shoulder got bruised up too many times from that while sighting in the scope it had. second was a Charter Arms .243 I killed two boars with it using 100Grn PMC ammo but decided I wanted something flatter shooting with heavier projectile so I got the Swede which is the one rifle I have stuck with due to its ability to shoot flat with good range without the boot from hell and I have never missed with it.


----------



## Marco

Labman said:


> No mention of the Krag?


Have one somebody sporterized, it will come up in the rotation one of these deer seasons.


----------



## Spotted Owl

My favorite is Gramps's old '41 winnie in 32 win spc. Seems though that the go to's are our Remmi mtn rifles in 280. The old winnie comes out when it's not raining. Either one will kill anything in the lower 48 with no problem and has handily by Gramps, my boy and me in both rifle configurations. Couldn't get Gramps to get into the "new fandagled things when there's nothing wrong with the tried and true" he tried the 280 for us but never did like it as much as his old stand by. Anyne ever heard of ribbing a stock. Grams said when he got that gun he ran a leg bone or a rib over it every night for months. He said it tightened and sealed the wood. From what I have seen it works quite well. Wish I didn't have that 32 spc, cause both Gramps and Gramm would still be here if I didn't.


Owl


----------



## mattmc2003

I have a m77 MKII all weather in 30-06. It shoots like a dream. Shoots all ammo equally. I have shot 125, 150,180, and 180RN and all shoot awesome. I also have an older m77 ultra light model in 308. I absolutley love it, but can't attest to its accuracy yet. But its a nice gun. My dad's is a smith and wesson model b in .308. Bought it new in early 70's i think? Kicks like a mule, with a 1-10" twist. Killed lots of deer.


----------



## chainsawboy1996

im not sure if anyone has said it but remington .257 roberts 120 custom grain bullets. 1 or so inch group.got my first buck with it.


----------



## ms290

lets see here 
No.1 is the Mossberg 702 in .22 long rifle

No.2 is the savage accutrigger in .243

And finnally the Mossy 835 in 12ga.

The only other on the love list is any of my 410s pick one i have 3


----------



## treedog54

*deer rifles*

.270 barnes x rem 7600.Know each other well .


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## rob206

I guess my favorite michigan deer rifle is my carbine, a Winchester "thuty-thuty". It is lite, quite accurate for a gun with a peep sight, and easy to carry to my blind and back. Any shots I take are typically close range, so it has all the power I need. That said, I used my Ruger M77 .338 mag this year and downed a spike with it. I had plenty of reloads left over from an elk hunt 4 years ago. The 30-30 came to deer camp "just in case".


----------



## TimberMcPherson

ross_scott said:


> Well my 1902 Carl Gustav 6.5x55 would be the third rifle I have owned which I have put a Bushnell dusk and dawn 3-9 x 40 sighted in for 140Grn hornady ammo
> the first was a Parker Hale .303 British shoulder got bruised up too many times from that while sighting in the scope it had. second was a Charter Arms .243 I killed two boars with it using 100Grn PMC ammo but decided I wanted something flatter shooting with heavier projectile so I got the Swede which is the one rifle I have stuck with due to its ability to shoot flat with good range without the boot from hell and I have never missed with it.



Hows farming in Atiamuri treating you, you on crafers block?

My favourite would be the ole SMLE 1915 mk111. Its ugly, brutal, and has all the finesse of an anvil. My great grandfathers had them in gallipoli and france in ww1. My grandfather stepped on a mine with one in his hands in egypt in ww2. My dad trained with them. Every kiwi has hunted with one and theres just about one on every farm. It might weigh a ton in your hands but there history is heavier.


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## mercer_me

I love my Ruger M77 MAK II 30.06 ultra lite. I have shot deer and moose with it, it's a great all round hunting rifle.


----------



## gainer

Winchester 70 featherweight .257 Roberts, accurate, light to carry, versatile.


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## scotclayshooter

Remmie 700 BDL varmint in HS Precision stock with sound moderator in .243 win.


----------



## CLEARVIEW TREE

Remington model 710 30-06. Shot lots of deer, coyotes,and hogs with it. Just like Marine Gy Sgt Carlos Hathcock proved with the model 700 when he started the FIRST ever sniper school of any branch...in the jungles of vietnam...it's a one shot one kill kinda weapon! Bullet proof.Accurate too!


----------



## WVwoodsman

Winchester model 70, black synthetic stock .270 and my second choice is my sks 7.62x39. My shotgun: Remington 870.


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## Stihl Does It

I hunted whitetails for years with a Marlin 336 30-30. I did mount a scope on it with Kwik-Site see thru rings. That was a durable combination to tote in the woods here.

I switched to a Rem 700 in .243 with Leupold mounts and a Bausch and Lomb 2.5 x 10 scope and I think is the best combo I could have for my area. I just love the accuracy of this setup.

I may later purchase a Rem 700 .308 with a Bushnell 4200 Elite in 2.5 x 10 x 40 or Nikon Monarch in similar 2.5 x 10 x 42 for hunting duty.

The Nikon has a slightly larger Objective, but the Bushnell has brighter optics IMO.

I think I'd go for the Bushnell, even though it's marginally higher priced, I believe the optics are brighter well in to twilight.

Check SWFA for package deals like this one: http://www.swfa.com/


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## scotclayshooter

The optics on a Swarovski are amazing, And that reticule is really good.


----------



## wood4heat

My Grandpa bought a Remington Targetmaster .22 in highschool. (early 30ies) He left it on the farm in Iowa when he moved his family to Oregon in the 60ies. He kept the farm for his mom (my Great Grandma) to live on but she died when I was in 4th grade. In the stuff he brought home to Oregon after her funeral was that .22 which he gave to me. I couldn't begin to guess how many rounds I've put through that gun and I still enjoy shooting it. Might not be much of a hunting rifle but it's my favorite. 

In '94 I bought a Browning A-bolt 7mm Rem mag from a guy my dad worked with. It's got a synthetic stock and stainless barrel, not the prettiest but had taken it's share of elk. The guy I bought it from was a competition shooter. Said he could hit a nickle at 100 yds consistently with it. Sold it to get Brownings 7mm with the boss system, a year later he called hoping to get it back. 

I'm getting into black powder now, my next gun will be a muzzle loader.


----------



## Longshot

In modern arms, I'd have to say a scoped, BSA Royal Majestic, .308 cal. is about as smooth and sweet as it gets. More traditionally, and in ways perhaps more satisfying, would be a .54 Berks county flint longrifle, with a Siler lock and a swamped 44" C weight, Rice barrel. Ka-boom!


----------



## TimberFaller660

TC encore 300 win mag. realtree syn. thumbhole stock, leuapold scope mounts/base, simmons A-T-V scope.


----------



## WadePatton

today it's a 50 cal hawken chucking home-cast balls over goex ff.

later in the season, no telling which _favorite_ i'll pull out of the hidey hole.

next year i hope to have a tennessee/southern style longrifle with flintlock completed (42" 54cal swamped). right now it's just a bbl and lock waiting for a good piece of wood and steel furniture-and the happy marriage of all. and then, it'll be my mostest favorite.


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## robfromaz1977

The first "New" rifle I ever bought is my Winchester Model 70 in 30-06. Has the controlled round feed like the Pre 64 models and has a Leupold Vari-X 2 3-9X40 on it. Killed my first deer with it and a couple of elk.


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## enjoys cutting

marlin lever in 35 rem is my favorite rifle.grandfather's father's and now mine,hopefully someday my sons.winchester 94 in 30-30 is running a close second.


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## Iska3

When in a stand I use my Remington Model Four 270 with a Redfield 1x4 scope with a post and cross hair. 

My brush gun is a 30-30 Marlin Model 336 open sites and one day in the season I will use the Winchester 30-30 all nickel hex barrel. This gun has a pat date Aug 21, 1894. The interesting thing is my grandfather purchased the gun for 1/3 cord of split oak in 1923 and the gun was well used at the time. I am the third John so the gun was handed down to me.


----------



## Blazin

Usually if I'm in a stand I'll pack my Savage mdl110 270 with a 4-12 simmons, my brush beatin outfit is a Marlin lever 1895M 450 guide gun with a 3-9 leupold. 
Last few years I've only used the 450, it's really hard to put down being hard hittin light compact weapon. Nice to clear timber out of the way when needed too.


----------



## jburlingham

I have 2 favorite hunting rifles, both Brownings

BLR 81 in 257 Roberts with a Bushnell 4 power

and an A bolt medallion in 284


----------



## VINIFIREWOOD

Sako Finfire in 7mm Rem Mag shooting some smokin hand loads and fitted with a Leupold 4-12x40


----------



## craddock

I have always enjoyed my &mm rem mag in a 110 savage with a 5 to 20 scope or my TC encore 50 cal topped with a 4 to 16 scope


----------



## sbhooper

Rifle opinions are kind of like chainsaw opinions. There are tons of good calibers and even gobs of good factory ammo for people who don't reload. 

I have a pair of left-hand Savage 7mm mags that have accounted for lots of deer and 14+ elk. I like to use a 6mm Remington on antelope and I prefer a Model 600 Remington .308 for deer around the house in the thick timber. 

I really prefer a bow or muzzleloader overall, though, for any type of game.


----------



## craddock

I like the 22-250 barrel for my TC when varmit hunting. I guess it all boils down to what your hunting, where your hunting, and what you can afford.


----------



## StihlyinEly

I've shot a lot of rifles over the years. Rifles and chainsaws. So much fun to experiment, so much good use to get out of good tools. 

For me, hands down, my favorite rifle was a pre-1948 Savage Model 99 lever action in .300 Savage. For those not familiar with the model, it has an internal hammer. That made it a darn fine saddle scabbard gun, and I carried it on my saddle when I lived up at 10,000 feet in Colorado and worked in the gold mine there. Did a lot of riding, working cows or just out riding, and that Savage was right there with me all the time. It had the brass cartridge counter so you knew how many shells you had left (like it's hard to keep track of five bullets or something). Also full buckhorn sights that were precise, and a pleasure to use. 

I also had a lot of fun with a Winchester M100 carbine in .308 caliber now and then, and also have used a Swiss army rifle with a straightback pull bolt that had been rebarreled to .308. It had the adjustable elevated rear sight, and it was a great time measuring off 500-1,000 yards and seeing just how close a guy could come to a target using the open sights.

These days I'm hunting in the woods all the time, and it's a Mossberg Model 695 bolt action 12-gauge. Nothing beats the knockdown power of a slug, and with the right loads that gun has accurate 150 yard range, which is plenty up here.


----------



## wigglesworth

Mine is an older (mid 80's) savage 110 in 30.06 that I have worked over. 2lb trigger, pillar bedded, bushnell 3200 scope, hand lapped steel rings with a 1 piece steel base. Right now shooting factory Hornady 180 custom shop loads. Shoots 1/2 moa everytime, all the time.....well if I do my part.


----------



## RobertN

#1 Savage 99 in 300 Savage. Nice strong action, solid rifle, great cartridge. Fast handling, comfortable to carry. .308 was based on the 300 Savage. 300 Savage has much better ballistics than a 30/30.

Put a Weaver K4 or a Leupold 1.5-5 scope on, and there is a great combo.

A great all around capable 250 yard gun.


----------



## Stihlman441

These are my two brothers i use most of the time,Win Mod 70s, Leupold VXL 4.5-14 x 50,Wildog stocks,Maddco barrels,one is .243 and the other in .270WSM.


----------



## wigglesworth

Stihlman441 said:


> These are my two brothers i use most of the time,Win Mod 70s, Leupold VXL 4.5-14 x 50,Wildog stocks,Maddco barrels,one is .243 and the other in .270WSM.









Hey...you missed....LOL


----------



## RobertN

*Wish list*

I tend towards Remington 700's, but this is on my wish list. Old school, Hathcock replica

http://www.texasbrigadearmory.com/m70.htm


----------



## bytehoven

This is my new favorite. I picked it up during the Winter '09 shopping marathon.

CZ452FS .22lr


----------



## spencerhenry

for coyotes, cats and such my hands down favorite is my colt h-bar elite. it is a factory accurized rifle. 24" stainless floated barrel, match trigger, i put a 12x leupold on it. it has killed literally thousands of animals. ground squirrels, coyotes, fox, bobcat, beaver, muskrat, feral dog, prairie dog, and even a mule deer once. the mule deer was about a week after deer season, someone had shot its jaw off, and i snuck up on it and shot it at about 4 feet.
for larger game, i have several really nice rifles, but the one that usually gets the job done is my old winchester ranger in 270. birch stock, 20" barrel, no floorplate, beat up, and not fancy. a few years ago i upgraded the scope to a leupold 3-9x 50 vx3. it has taken bighorn sheep, mountain goat, antelope, mule deer, whitetail deer, bull elk, cow elk, coyote, bear, and some small animals.


----------



## WadePatton

well, sincin yall are talking modern for the most part:

my most accurate, get-the-job-done-no-matter-the-task rifle is an early model a-bolt/synthetic stock. my pertiest and lightest and sweetest handling is a remington mountain rifle. my balls-to-the-wall stomper is a #1 ruger, tropical. and my "like new, but 30-years old" job is a 700 that i rarely take out. it got old and stayed shiny because my _uncle _owned it for most of its days. and i'm not much on sub quarter-bore.

i see several of you love the savage 99. that's one on my high-priority list if i ever get back into gun-collecting mode. never owned one, but truly appreciate what they are.

and i also have a 1894, and two mauser projects to work on. (after the flintlock).

i promised my a-bolt a nice piece of wood this season. going to shape it like the mountain rifle. and am sawing some blanks this winter.

been collecting rifles much longer than saws


----------



## 2000ssm6

I've been using these this season, except the 9mm(far left). The 6.8(beside 9mm) hasn't claimed one yet, but soon enough.







Most of the time the Remy Mod. Seven .270wsm goes along, lots of power. It should be posted in here somewhere.


----------



## MCW

I have a few favourite rifles.

1) Tikka T3 Stainless Varmint in .25/06 Rem with 4-16x50 Bausch & Lomb Elite 4000. With handloaded 100gn Ballistic Tips it'll consistently group 5 shots into just under 1/2" at 100m out the box (not 100 yards!). I'll never sell it.

2) Winchester Model 70 in .22/250 40° Ackley with 27" Kreiger SS barrel 1:10 twist. Same accuracy as .25/06 with 55 grain Ballistic Tips. Wears a 4.5-14x50 Nikko Diamond (Jap Made). Bedded and Floated. Unfortunately was rebarrelled with a very long throat so to make the most of it's accuracy can only have one round in the chamber and one in the mag. The rounds won't fit in the magazine when you have the bullets seated out where they need to be 

3) CZ527 in .222 Rem. Bedded and Floated. Great little rifle and groups around 1/2" at 100m. Seems to love Speer 52gn HP which kangaroos, cats, rabbits, and foxes don't like at all! I'll never sell this thing, it is excellent and cheap to run, unlike the .25/06  Also wearing a 4.5-14x50 Nikko Diamond (Jap Made).

4) Ruger 77/22 Blued Timber. Have had this rifle since they were first released and will never sell it. This is one for the grandkids and I was lucky to get one with really nice grain in the stock. It has surprised a number of benchrest .22's at various range shoots after I bedded and floated it. Wouldn't shoot to save itself before I did that.

- I also have a Winchester Mod. 243 Pump Action in .22LR. Piece of crap. Despite being like new it wouldn't hit the side of a barn at 20 yards.
- A Remington Mod 700BDLDM in .25/06 Rem. Very accurate after I rebarrelled it to a Stainless Sprinter but no matter how much fiddling myself or gunsmiths did we could never get the detachable magazine to feed properly. This barrel is now shot out so she just sits in the cupboard.
- A Remington Peerless Field O/U 12 guage which has won a number of Sporting Clays competitions in AA Grade. Good shotgun with the mechanical triggers and the only Remington O/U I have ever seen competing in state and national Sporting Clays competitions. A lot of the Browning/Miroku/Beretta clan used to laugh until they got their arses kicked  Beretta owners were the worst. Gave up clay shooting a while ago - too expensive.
- A Diana Model 350 Magnum Air Rifle in .177 Very powerful but WILL NOT shoot with a scope on it. I know 3 people with these air rifles and they will not hold a consistent zero when scoped. Before people say "you need an air rifle scope and decent mounts" I had all that as did the other guys. I just don't think the barrel locked consistently in the same spot. With open sights it is very accurate.
- A old US Property No 4 .303 British (Savage Made). Good old gun for those nostalgia moments where you picture the Japanese running across the paddock  In reality though quite accurate with a lot of punch. Have fitted a 6 x 40 cheapie scope which does OK.

Unfrotunately had to hand in a Remington 11/87 Auto 12 guage and a Ruger 10/22 in the 1996 gun buyback. That 11/87 had won a number of big Sporting Clay competitons and I was really pissed off giving that back :censored:


----------



## MCW

I have a few favourite rifles.

1) Tikka T3 Stainless Varmint in .25/06 Rem with 4-16x50 Bausch & Lomb Elite 4000. With handloaded 100gn Ballistic Tips it'll consistently group 5 shots into just under 1/2" at 100m out the box (not 100 yards!). I'll never sell it.

2) Winchester Model 70 in .22/250 40° Ackley with 27" Kreiger SS barrel 1:10 twist. Same accuracy as .25/06 with 55 grain Ballistic Tips. Wears a 4.5-14x50 Nikko Diamond (Jap Made). Bedded and Floated. Unfortunately was rebarrelled with a very long throat so to make the most of it's accuracy can only have one round in the chamber and one in the mag. The rounds won't fit in the magazine when you have the bullets seated out where they need to be 

3) CZ527 in .222 Rem. Bedded and Floated. Great little rifle and groups around 1/2" at 100m. Seems to love Speer 52gn HP which kangaroos, cats, rabbits, and foxes don't like at all! I'll never sell this thing, it is excellent and cheap to run, unlike the .25/06  Also wearing a 4.5-14x50 Nikko Diamond (Jap Made).

4) Ruger 77/22 Blued Timber. Have had this rifle since they were first released and will never sell it. This is one for the grandkids and I was lucky to get one with really nice grain in the stock. It has surprised a number of benchrest .22's at various range shoots after I bedded and floated it. Wouldn't shoot to save itself before I did that.

- I also have a Winchester Mod. 243 Pump Action in .22LR. Piece of crap. Despite being like new it wouldn't hit the side of a barn at 20 yards.
- A Remington Mod 700BDLDM in .25/06 Rem. Very accurate after I rebarrelled it to a Stainless Sprinter but no matter how much fiddling myself or gunsmiths did we could never get the detachable magazine to feed properly. This barrel is now shot out so she just sits in the cupboard.
- A Remington Peerless Field O/U 12 guage which has won a number of Sporting Clays competitions in AA Grade. Good shotgun with the mechanical triggers and the only Remington O/U I have ever seen competing in state and national Sporting Clays competitions. A lot of the Browning/Miroku/Beretta clan used to laugh until they got their arses kicked  Beretta owners were the worst. Gave up clay shooting a while ago - too expensive.
- A Diana Model 350 Magnum Air Rifle in .177 Very powerful but WILL NOT shoot with a scope on it. I know 3 people with these air rifles and they will not hold a consistent zero when scoped. Before people say "you need an air rifle scope and decent mounts" I had all that as did the other guys. I just don't think the barrel locked consistently in the same spot. With open sights it is very accurate.
- A old US Property No 4 .303 British (Savage Made). Good old gun for those nostalgia moments where you picture the Japanese running across the paddock  In reality though quite accurate with a lot of punch. Have fitted a 6 x 40 cheapie scope which does OK.

Unfortunately had to hand in a Remington 11/87 Auto 12 guage and a Ruger 10/22 in the 1996 gun buyback. That 11/87 had won a number of big Sporting Clay competitons and I was really pissed off giving that back :censored: I mean the government paid me what the guns cost me but that's not the point...


----------



## derwoodii

Ruger 77 / 22lr 
Ruger 96 / 22lr
Ruger 96 / 22mag
I may have to bed and float after reading last post. 1st need to work my own skills before tweaking the barrels. Very happy with them all. Tomorrow avo after some fencing and weed spraying, off after bunnies.


----------



## stihlonly

Favourite hunting rifle...hmmm....where do I start, horses for courses I use:
For deer (Reds) Browning BAR Shortrac 308 or 243, or Remington Tactical in 308.
Fallow/Whitetail deer CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39 using Speer 130gr 308 Hollows or Sako 243.
Hare/Rabbits etc CZ527 Varminter in 204 Ruger, CZ527 223, Sako 222 
I use suppressors on all the above rifles, looks after the hearing and doesn't spook the whole #######ed valley. Use handloads with all the above, spent hours and lots of rounds finding the ultimate load for each and thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. Accuracy and the one hole group, its a disease!!


----------



## charlesedwin

Hi.
I do not use hunting rifle as I do not hunt but my friend has Remington Tactical in 308.


----------



## Uncle John

Depending on what I would be hunting:

Winchester .30-06
Savage .308
Winchester .30-30
AR15 .223
Mak 90 7.62x39
Sks 7.62x39
Ruger 10/22 modded to .17
Ruger 10/22 
Stevens .22
Springfield .22


----------



## bwalker

My current favorite is a SS Win Model 70 magnum action with a #3 contour 24" Mike Rock cut rifled barrel chambered in .300 ultra mag. The gun wears 30mm Talley LW mounts, a Jewell trigger, Williams extractor, Williams Oberndorf bottom metal, A Ed Lapour safety, Zeiss 3.5-10x42 Diavari Victory scope, Montana sling and a Darcy Echols Legend carbon fiber stock. Gin goes about 8lbs all up minus cartridges
The load I shoot is comprised of a rem case, 215GMM primer, Hodgdon Retumbo and a 165 Nosler Accubond at around 3400fps(verified over a Oehler 35P).


----------



## scotclayshooter

That Jewell trigger is sweet.
I have a mate that has never managed to hit the target with my rifle as he tries to take up the SLACK on the trigger!!!!!!

I got trigger shy a few years ago and even set at 5oz i couldnt get my finger to move! I had to go back to the .22lr for a while to get over it!


----------



## weimedog

The groceres freezer.


----------



## RVALUE

RobertN said:


> #1 Savage 99 in 300 Savage. Nice strong action, solid rifle, great cartridge. Fast handling, comfortable to carry. .308 was based on the 300 Savage. 300 Savage has much better ballistics than a 30/30.
> 
> Put a Weaver K4 or a Leupold 1.5-5 scope on, and there is a great combo.
> 
> A great all around capable 250 yard gun.



Savage 250/3000


----------



## PA Plumber

I may have to change from a .280 to a 7mm-08.
Nice loads, great ballistics, but I can't get the thing to shoot.:monkey:

Sent it back to Remington and they said the barrel was defective.

Sent me a new barrel and action. Hopefully this one is a shooter.

Nothing fancy, Remington SPS synthetic Stainless: 24" barrel.

Had the idea of loading it for youngsters with 120 grain Barnes bullets.


----------



## RVALUE

Back when I was rich, we used to shoot rabbits at 250 to 300 yards with the 250-3000. Nice old gun.


----------



## RED68

I picked up a used Ruger 7mm Mag at a gun shop back in 89. Some one backed the set screw out of the trigger 3/16". You don't have to conciously pull the trigger just think about it and it will go off. Zeroed in at 150 it will put 4 in a 2" circle. It's been a good gun. Had to get used to the trigger.


----------



## RobertN

I would like one to go right next to the 300 Savage. 

A 99 in 250-3000 with a nice Marbles peep sight would be a nice package...

Savage and Newton really made some cartridges that were far ahead of their time, and are still very respectable even today.



RVALUE said:


> Savage 250/3000


----------



## alleyyooper

I surely don't know how any one could have just one favortite.

Rugar 77 22LR tang saftey for squirrels and small varmits and those coons and possums caught in the live trap.

Rugar 77 220 Swift for the bigget varmits and just plain distance shooting.

Remington 700 BDL 243 for big varmits in a windy condition or just because I like it.

Remington 700 BDL 308 for the big varmits in really windy conditions and deer hunting.

Remington 700 Mountian rifle 7MM08 for shooting deer across the big cramberry bogs and some times varmits.

Remington model 7 7MM08 for still hunting thru the thick cedar swamps.

Remington 700 # 1 custom in 300 win mag for deer across the big cramberry bog and on the beach.

And the one I carry and shoot the most.
Remington 700 Muzzle loader in 54 cal, All I
have used to hunt white tails with the last 4 years.

I have others but they have fell out of favor statis,mostly because they have open sights and my old eys just can't make them work.

I do have a model 94 winny in 32 special with a lyman peep sight that is nice in the cedar swamp but the model 7 is better.

 Al


----------



## UNCC Grad

My favorite is my Kar98 Mauser in .257 Roberts. Classic action and a classic round. I put in a Bold trigger that breaks at a clean 3.5#...really nice and light deer rifle


----------



## mixxer

If I have to pick just one.... Broadest spectrum of use and fantastic accuracy in a mild recoil...

Tikka .270 with Burris 3-9 Vari -X ballitstic reticle scope... 140 grain bonded Scirocco bullet...


----------



## Yoopermike

Stainless Ruger M-77 with paddle stock in .280 Rem.


----------



## WadePatton

WadePatton said:


> My number one, go-to, under-any-conditions rifle is a Browning A-bolt in 30-06, synthetic with my own trigger mods. Three shots in .75 or less with 165 Hornadys or 165 Nosler Partitions over 54g of 414.
> 
> My favorite handling and best looking rifle, is a Remington Mountain Rifle (700) in .280. I refinished it with linseed oil and accurized it. It's a featherweight with super classic lines and decent walnut. Usually load it with Nosler 140 BT's.
> 
> My bruiser is a Ruger No. 1 Tropical in 375H&H. It's real purty and shoots great, but is like toting an armload of firewood around--a tad heavy. I'd love to have a turn-bolt 375. Probably will someday.
> 
> "Blooded" my 1894 Marlin (44mag) this past season with a little buck. That gun needs some more work. Just got it back together with new ejector and finish, but have some other issues to work on.
> 
> Have another handful of rifles in various states of repair, but that is my top three. The 44 isn't on the "fave" list yet.
> 
> Just got a 17HMR, but don't have much trigger time on it yet. I got mom the NEF version. I bought the Savage with Accutrigger.
> 
> Have a Bowen Nimrod .45 Colt that'll take a deer out someday. Working on getting a holster to fit it.
> 
> ...don't get me talking about guns, or trucks, or fishing, or saws...



********************
update:

Hahahaha, my how things change over the years. All of the above was true when written, but I no longer fool with cartridge-guns much at all.

I've gone to _powder down the pipe_ style, pretty much exclusively but for my utility pistol (Single Six, 22 4 5/8")

The ONLY thing I've taken to the woods in that last few years in my Flintlock. I made one in TN-style, in 54 cal. Fueled with 2F, .530 ball I cast of soft lead, in heavy denim patching. It's brought down a few good bucks. Rest of the particulars: 42" C-wt swamped bbl in curly maple and Henry Nock (English) lock, double set, all steel furniture, finished in beeswax.

I've got a couple more on the bench, but will wait until they're done to yak about 'em, save this: other stockwoods, other calibers, all early 1800's TN-styled.


----------



## ColRJBrinkman

My throw in the truck or SxS 4 wheeler long range shooter: Rem 788 300 WinMag with 4-9x40 glass

My hog/brush gun: 50 Beowulf with 4-9x40 glass

Deer and yotes and “steel target”: 6.5 Grendel with Athlon glass


----------



## stihl sawing

Used to be the Browning 7 mag, now it's the AR10 in 6.5 creedmore.


----------



## CentaurG2

I have always liked my old 22lr mauser. Bought it at a gun show many years ago for $50. Rusty bluing with a bore so dark you could not see down it. After a good cleaning, it still looks plenty rough but its accuracy is unmatched. Great little gun for all the “big game” we have around here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4aQu3cgRSM


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## rarefish383

Top 4 not neccisarly in that order. 1950 Savage 99 in 250 with 2-7 Redfield. 1912 Savage 1899 in 22 Hi-Power, with 3X Malcolm scope. 1926 Savage 99 in 250 with Lyman peep. 1926 Savage 99 in 303 with Weaver K4. Fair weather back up, engeaved 1928 Savage model K with 1928 Noske 4X, in 300 Savage, take down.


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