# what would YOU do?



## mikeb1079 (Sep 16, 2009)

well first and foremost i would like to say thanks to you guys for all the information i have already gleaned thru this site. there's a heap of good stuff in here, well done. second, i picked up a nice stihl 076 as a result of a tip off from this site (check out the photo) :biggrinbounce2: and i'm keen to start milling with it, as my dolmakita 5400 is a wee bit underpowered in the milling department. it works, its just sloooooowwww.....
looks like the 076 will be a nice milling saw, though it needs a new muffler. (quick question: will an 051 muffler fit an 076? theres one on ebay but im not sure if it will work) so here's my questions: it looks like the drive sprocket is supposed to run 404 chain. should i buy a sprocket that will run 3/8 for milling? does it matter much? i will be welding up a milling jig for the 076, what bar length would you recommend? i understand that the bigger the better, yet the bigger the setup the tougher it is for one guy to deal with. i'll be milling anything i can get my hands on, preferably oak/walnut/cherry/hickory. i've got a chance to pick up a 32" stihl bar for 40 bucks off craigslist, but on the stihl website it says that this bar runs 3/8 chain. if it were you, and you were making up a jig from scratch with no bar, how big of a setup, ie bar/jig, would you make?


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## mtngun (Sep 16, 2009)

Depends on the size of the tree, but 36" and 42" bars are popular for milling.

I would lean toward a 3/8", 0.063" gauge bar and chain. 0.404" chain is thicker, a disadvantage for milling.

If your saw uses rim sprockets, they are only a few bucks.


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## hazard (Sep 17, 2009)

I have always wanted to get more out of my mill. I have a 36" bar for my mill. I didn't realize it but my mill can handle a 42" bar. I have maxed out my 28" capacity with the 36" bar.

If I had a choice with that saw I would go with the 42" and 3/8" chain.

What have you come across in the area so far. I always have 3 or 4 potential logs on my to do list. There is plenty to be had. The funny thing is is that I am never on the hunt for logs.

Chris


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## glennschumann (Sep 17, 2009)

A 42" bar on a 36" mill is just about right and a good place to start. I also run a 24" and 36" bar when it is appropriate for the size of the log. That set up is lighter, and easier to manipulate. 3/8" 0.063 is also a good choice. 0.404 cuts a wider kerf, takes more power (and wood from your boards) and is slower. If you end up getting into a 60" at any point.... 0.404 is the better option I think, but some have outfitted their long bars with 3/8" sprockts, and it works for them.


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## bullseye13 (Sep 17, 2009)

In regard to your question about the muffler, an 051 muffler WILL NOT fit an 076. The mufflers that will fit an 076 can be taken from another 076, 075 or ts760. The mufflers from a 051 and 076 look close enough, but the cylinder port size is different which is why they dont interchange.


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## woodsrunner (Sep 17, 2009)

glennschumann said:


> A 42" bar on a 36" mill is just about right and a good place to start. I also run a 24" and 36" bar when it is appropriate for the size of the log. That set up is lighter, and easier to manipulate. 3/8" 0.063 is also a good choice.



:agree2:



Scott


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## Coalsmoke (Sep 17, 2009)

mtngun said:


> I would lean toward a 3/8", 0.063" gauge bar and chain.



That is what I have on my Husky 395xp, with a 36" bar, it works nicely.


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## BobL (Sep 17, 2009)

When you make the mill don't weld the frame to fit just one bar length. Instead use T-Track or Uninstrut or similar for the mill rails. That way you can easily change the bar length. If the bar length gets too long for the mill rails you can just get long mill rails

I also use 063 3/8 chain and have 3 sets of mill rails 36, 54 and 64" to use on bar lengths from 30 to 60" with 441, 660, 076 and 880 saws


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## mikeb1079 (Sep 17, 2009)

*good advice*

ah...excellent advice fellas, thanks. to hazard: i've only milled some cherry so far, that was about 16" diameter. the thing is though, i work for the city of madison and the waste reduction plant is right across the street from our shop. that's where they take all the city trees to be ground into chips. i just saw a pile of white oak over there today, and they have some BIG pieces of lumber laying about over there, just waiting for me to mill it up. hazard: how do you come across most of your wood?
thanks to bullseye for the tip on the muffler.
bobl: how do you like your 076 for milling? pluses? minuses?

i picked up that 32" bar for my saw, and i think i'll order a 3/8 sprocket tonight, then as per bobs advice i'll use extendable rails when i make my jig so i can go bigger if required.
thanks again dudes...


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## hazard (Sep 17, 2009)

Lately it is just friends and family.

I work for the dot and I used to work on roadway projects. I would cut trees down before they were burned or buried. I probably got 50 logs that way. That was more in the 90's. There hasn't been any big jobs close by and also I have enough lumber stored up.

I am assuming the waste reduction plant is closed to the general public. Not that I need anymore wood but I am always looking for interesting wood for turning bowls on the lathe

Chris


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## mikeb1079 (Sep 17, 2009)

*reduction plant*

hey hazard, actually the reduction plant is open to the public (kind of). if you have a trailer or pickup truck, you can usually just drive in there and get one of the streets workers to load up stuff for you (they run a couple of end loaders to put all the trees into the giant chipper/shredder). lots of folks just pull in there and have them load up mulch for them, i'm sure they wouldn't care if you asked them to put a trunk piece into a trailer or something. after all, the mulch that they make is taken to drop off sites around town and is free to the public anyway. pm me if you need more info.


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## BlueRider (Sep 18, 2009)

If you switch from .404 to 3/8 pitch you will need to do the math to figute out what noumber of pins so you don't lose any chain speed. depending on what size bar you go with you may even be able to incrase the chain speed a tad sine the an 076 has so much torque. I run .404 chain on my 075. it is a tad wider but .404 refers to the pitch and not the width of the kerf. the difference in ker is not as big as most people make it out to be. 

the muffler from a Ts 760 will fit but they don't have spark aresters, or atleast the one I picked up didn't. 

I mill by myself and my rig is plenty managable. I run the 076 with a 42" bar on a granberg mill. If you weld up something out of steel it will weigh more so keep that in mind.

not to open a can of worms,but I run 50:1 (full synthetic) mix when milling with my old saws and have been for 15 years. these old saws were beter made than the new ones and there is no need to baby them.


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## BobL (Sep 18, 2009)

mikeb1079 said:


> bobl: how do you like your 076 for milling? pluses? minuses?



I like using the 076 because it has a lot of built in positives as a milling saw but I prefer the 880 after a few mods.

Pluses: 
Easy to start - I don't know why that is the case but I never even bother with te decomp valve
Plenty of Torque - helps with one of the minuses below
Exhaust directed way from log and operator - this is excellent
Tough as old boots - no need to say any more here
Bar bolts close to end of saw - this one is subtle but it means cutting length can be maxed out easier than a 660/880

Minuses
Slow chainspeed compared to modern saws - can be compensated for with careful choice of sprocket
Hard to refuel mid slab - right angle filling tube fixes that
A little heavier than comparable cc saw - but not that significant on a mill

All in all a great milling saw

I think there is tendency especially by newbies to try and solve problems by increasing the grunt of the saw and probably not enough on mill design and maintaining quality practices.


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## mtngun (Sep 18, 2009)

BobL said:


> I prefer the 880 after a few mods.


I guess I could force myself to live with an 880.:hmm3grin2orange:



> I think there is tendency especially by newbies to try and solve problems by increasing the grunt of the saw.


Darned right ! ! !


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## Brmorgan (Sep 18, 2009)

Bob, did you ever post pics of that right-angle fuel filler for your 076? I remember the thread about discussing how to fix that little "problem" but I don't specifically remember a final design or photos thereof for some reason.


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## BobL (Sep 18, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> Bob, did you ever post pics of that right-angle fuel filler for your 076? I remember the thread about discussing how to fix that little "problem" but I don't specifically remember a final design or photos thereof for some reason.



I was going to make one, but when I saw a plastic right angle adapter can be bought for $15? I decided against it. I have not used my 076 for a while as I'm planning a make over for it!


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## woodsrunner (Sep 19, 2009)

Bob where did you find the plastic right angle adapter ? I "stumbled across a decent 076 last week dirt cheap and couldn't pass it up. I would be interested in one.

p.s. I haven't given up on my twin powerhead setup at all, just a cad purchase that I couldn't walk away from. So i may make a second mill setup.


Scott
I


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## BobL (Sep 19, 2009)

woodsrunner said:


> Bob where did you find the plastic right angle adapter ? I "stumbled across a decent 076 last week dirt cheap and couldn't pass it up. I would be interested in one.
> 
> p.s. I haven't given up on my twin powerhead setup at all, just a cad purchase that I couldn't walk away from. So i may make a second mill setup.
> 
> ...



I saw them on ebay.


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## woodsrunner (Sep 19, 2009)

Thanks Bob.


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## nofish37 (Sep 19, 2009)

*Newbie 076 buildup*

Hey guys, just finished my 076. Built from one saw and several donors and a few nos parts. First time messing with these old beasts. I like the saw, it's built like a tank and is torquey as HELL. Oem piston in decent shape, crank was smooth and ok. New intake manifold, crank seals, handle and covers, oil pump driver, and a pile of misc. Pretty much used the best available parts I had and bought a few. Only thing I'm not crazy about is the fact that the intake and exhaust ports are on the same side of the cylinder. God, she's heavy... Running a 44" rollernose GB bar with 3/8" .063. Don't care for the rollernose much, it get's pretty warm. I enjoyed the build and love it when I get a chance to run one of the classics. I'll be throwing it up on Ebay probably sunday to finance my next project and pay my taxes *&%$#!!
She runs great and has a ton of new parts. Nothing is broken or stripped. I put up a video of my first two and only cuts I'll make with it, I cringe when I think about hitting nails or something with ALL THAT CHAIN.  Like the site and look forward to my next project. Mike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFz53uW6Fho


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## BobL (Sep 19, 2009)

nofish37 said:


> Hey guys, just finished my 076. Built from one saw and several donors and a few nos parts. First time messing with these old beasts. I like the saw, it's built like a tank and is torquey as HELL. Oem piston in decent shape, crank was smooth and ok. New intake manifold, crank seals, handle and covers, oil pump driver, and a pile of misc. Pretty much used the best available parts I had and bought a few. Only thing I'm not crazy about is the fact that the intake and exhaust ports are on the same side of the cylinder. God, she's heavy... Running a 44" rollernose GB bar with 3/8" .063. Don't care for the rollernose much, it get's pretty warm. I enjoyed the build and love it when I get a chance to run one of the classics. I'll be throwing it up on Ebay probably sunday to finance my next project and pay my taxes *&%$#!!
> She runs great and has a ton of new parts. Nothing is broken or stripped. I put up a video of my first two and only cuts I'll make with it, I cringe when I think about hitting nails or something with ALL THAT CHAIN.  Like the site and look forward to my next project. Mike
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFz53uW6Fho



Nice job Mike - you might want to put some of your profit towards some quality PPE - a least some decent muffs. Older coots like me that have stuff all hearing left now really wish we wore muffs (and didn't sit directly in front of speaker stacks at rock concerts) when we were younger.


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## mikeb1079 (Sep 19, 2009)

*stihl 076*

thanks bobl for your thoughts on the 076. i'm really looking forward to trying it out. finished most of my jig at work on friday, should be able to finish er off this week. then, once my chain arrives from baileys i'm ready to roll. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## BobL (Sep 19, 2009)

mikeb1079 said:


> thanks bobl for your thoughts on the 076. i'm really looking forward to trying it out. finished most of my jig at work on friday, should be able to finish er off this week. then, once my chain arrives from baileys i'm ready to roll. :hmm3grin2orange:



I'm looking forward to it!


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## mikeb1079 (Sep 19, 2009)

*milling jig*

once i get it finished i'll have to post some pics. it'll give you guys a good laugh to see my metal fabrication abilities!


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## nofish37 (Sep 20, 2009)

BobL said:


> Nice job Mike - you might want to put some of your profit towards some quality PPE - a least some decent muffs. Older coots like me that have stuff all hearing left now really wish we wore muffs (and didn't sit directly in front of speaker stacks at rock concerts) when we were younger.



What?  Thanks Bill, I love putting these saws together and seeing them work again. Gotcha on the muffs, I know better. I cut firewood, and not that much. I'm not gonna pretend that I'm some tree guy, I just happen to be pretty mechanical and enjoy working on a quality built saw. Just curious on the chainsaw mills, How does it balance out with a bandmill? I know initial expense is considerably less and they're far more portable, but what are you guys spending on chain, fuel, saws, and time in comparison? I may keep one of my saws and buy a mill as I have access to some nice logs. I also have alot of amish in my area that run quite a few bandmills. Are the chainsaw mills something you would use in a remote location where there isn't much alternative, or do they really work that well? Thanks, Mike


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## Brmorgan (Sep 20, 2009)

From an economic perspective, if you're interested in making a tidy profit with a CSM the only practical ways to do so are with either custom beams & timbers, or cutting VERY exotic and valuable lumber such as bird's-eye maple etc. or tropical hardwoods. It doesn't have much to do with the cost of running the CSM equipment so much as the fact that it's much more time consuming than bandmilling. Now, if you're more interested in _saving_ some money by milling your own lumber, have a lot of time, or are working with large logs and lack equipment for moving them to a mill, then CSMing is the way to go. I milled probably $1000 worth of custom Fir beams last summer for myself for about $50 worth of fuel and a couple days of my time. Not a bad deal IMO.


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## nofish37 (Sep 20, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> From an economic perspective, if you're interested in making a tidy profit with a CSM the only practical ways to do so are with either custom beams & timbers, or cutting VERY exotic and valuable lumber such as bird's-eye maple etc. or tropical hardwoods. It doesn't have much to do with the cost of running the CSM equipment so much as the fact that it's much more time consuming than bandmilling. Now, if you're more interested in _saving_ some money by milling your own lumber, have a lot of time, or are working with large logs and lack equipment for moving them to a mill, then CSMing is the way to go. I milled probably $1000 worth of custom Fir beams last summer for myself for about $50 worth of fuel and a couple days of my time. Not a bad deal IMO.



Thanks for the info, Thanks! I think I probably will give it a go. I'll do my research and probably build my own as I do alot of fab work and prototyping. Unfortunately, time is one commodity I am running short of these days! I will need some beefy posts and beams in the near future as I am rapidly outgrowing my shop. I picked up enough 6" thick freezer panels to do a 100' building, but I'm gonna need some structure as I'd like to do a second story with a gambrel type roof with some dormers. So many projects, so little time... I'd also like to apologize to Bob for calling him Bill! I guess that's what you get for responding at three in the morning! I'll do more research before I ask any more questions, Thanks guys! Mike


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## BobL (Sep 20, 2009)

nofish37 said:


> What?  Thanks Bill, I love putting these saws together and seeing them work again. Gotcha on the muffs, I know better. I cut firewood, and not that much. I'm not gonna pretend that I'm some tree guy, I just happen to be pretty mechanical and enjoy working on a quality built saw. Just curious on the chainsaw mills, How does it balance out with a bandmill? I know initial expense is considerably less and they're far more portable, but what are you guys spending on chain, fuel, saws, and time in comparison? I may keep one of my saws and buy a mill as I have access to some nice logs. I also have alot of amish in my area that run quite a few bandmills. Are the chainsaw mills something you would use in a remote location where there isn't much alternative, or do they really work that well? Thanks, Mike



No worries about Bill, I was called Jim as a kid for many years when a teacher came into a classroom and point at me and said "Jim, come with me"!

I general I agree with Brad about CS mill economics. CS milling for me is 50% fun, and the ability to access unusual timber that would otherwise end up as wood chip. The other 50% is the enjoyment of making mills and tools and stuff - I love making stuff from scraps and bits and pieces. 

Like, recently I made this Macro Photography stand





I made everything (~50 individual pieces) even the lampshades (not the electrical components) mainly from bits of scrap ally and steel. The Vertical is made from a leftover piece of CS mill rail. The white base is made from a veneered chipboard cupboard door and the the knobs come from an old roof rack, both of which I picked up from the side of the road etc

I made it so I could takes pics like this





Full thread on super close ups of chain cutters here.


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## nofish37 (Sep 21, 2009)

Bob, HA! Nice work. Clean looking and can't argue with the results, That sucker works great! I like the fact that you use odds and ends and things that otherwise may end up in the junk. I get a little goofy sometimes, I had a canadian geese problem and shooting them just seemed to easy and wrong, So I built a remote control canadian goose on a scratch built aluminum hull with twin outboard motors, complete with glowing red eyes and a full auto .68 calibur paintball gun. I don't have a goose problem anymore This winter I may put some bottle rocket launchers on it. I've got to get some video of it and I'll put it up on youtube. I'd have ya over for a few beers, but that's one hell of a drive Thanks, mike


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## Brmorgan (Sep 21, 2009)

Lovin' that macro stand, Bob. That's right up my alley as my other main hobby besides saws/woodworking is photography. I've been wanting one of those for a while but the commercial ones are pretty spendy if you want a decent setup.

Back early in the summer I got basically an entire darkroom setup for $10 at a yard sale. Everything was there except the chemicals - boxes of B/W developing paper, tons of clips, trays, sizing and cutting trays, exposure timer, redlight, you name it. The real steal was the Saunders/LPL Dichroic D6700 color enlarger. They still sell for over $800 at Adorama. This one isn't new but it seems to work just fine. I realize that the demand for film processing gear is almost nil at this point, so I don't even know if I can make much money on the stuff. But I couldn't pass it up for a measly $10. 

I did take Photography back in high school, so I do know my way around basic darkroom and developing tasks though I can't see myself ever using those particular skills again. I guess I could go dig up the EOS 650 I got dirt-cheap on eBay & play with some B/W developing. Anyway I was thinking that I might be able to adapt the enlarger's stand and micro-adjustments to hold my camera for precision depth-of-field and macro work. It's a significantly bulkier affair than what you built, but it just might work. Also what camera are you using that you can control it from a computer? If you're doing Live Preview it must be one of the newer ones, 50D maybe? 

If you're having a problem with vibration, have you tried using the Mirror Lockup function in addition to a remote shutter trigger? I would assume your camera has that option - I'm using an older 20D and it does. This locks the mirror in the upright position before the shot is taken, so the only vibration is that of the shutter itself which is pretty much impossible to negate, and I would dare say has almost immeasurable effect in today's cameras anyway.


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## BobL (Sep 21, 2009)

nofish37 said:


> . . . So I built a remote control canadian goose on a scratch built aluminum hull with twin outboard motors, complete with glowing red eyes and a full auto .68 calibur paintball gun. I don't have a goose problem anymore This winter I may put some bottle rocket launchers on it. I've got to get some video of it and I'll put it up on youtube. I'd have ya over for a few beers, but that's one hell of a drive Thanks, mike



Ha, I'd like to see that!


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## BobL (Sep 21, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> Lovin' that macro stand, Bob. That's right up my alley as my other main hobby besides saws/woodworking is photography. I've been wanting one of those for a while but the commercial ones are pretty spendy if you want a decent setup.


Cheers BM. We have a number of these macro stands at work but these and most of the commercial ones are too short and I can't use my 100 mm macro lens on larger objects and have to keep swapping out to other lenses.



> Back early in the summer I got basically an entire darkroom setup for $10 at a yard sale.
> .
> .
> .
> I did take Photography back in high school, so I do know my way around basic darkroom and developing tasks though I can't see myself ever using those particular skills again. I guess I could go dig up the EOS 650 I got dirt-cheap on eBay & play with some B/W developing.



I started with B&W back in the early 70's and eventually taught photography for a few years at high school. I have still have hundreds of rolls of B&W negatives, I love the control you can exert when developing etc. Then I got into home developed colour slides - lots of these in boxes as well. Another thing I got into in the 1980s was panoramic photography which requires a lot of photos and just couldn't afford the development costs so things sat dormant for a while until the late 1990s when I got my first digi. Then all hell broke loose. Now I have portfolios of DVDs full of images. I keep a set at home and another at work. 



> Anyway I was thinking that I might be able to adapt the enlarger's stand and micro-adjustments to hold my camera for precision depth-of-field and macro work. It's a significantly bulkier affair than what you built, but it just might work.


That sounds like a real good idea.



> Also what camera are you using that you can control it from a computer? If you're doing Live Preview it must be one of the newer ones, 50D maybe?


Yep that's it 



> If you're having a problem with vibration, have you tried using the Mirror Lockup function in addition to a remote shutter trigger? I would assume your camera has that option - I'm using an older 20D and it does. This locks the mirror in the upright position before the shot is taken, so the only vibration is that of the shutter itself which is pretty much impossible to negate, and I would dare say has almost immeasurable effect in today's cameras anyway.


Yep I've tried the mirror lock up and it didn't help much. One thing I changed today was the soft rubber feet on the frame to some hard plastic feet and this has helped a bit. BTW the camera I took the photo of the 50D was my 20D - it's still a very good camera.


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## hazard (Sep 22, 2009)

I will keep this in mind. We sold our apple orchard 8yrs ago and I lost my tractor, trailer and somewhere to store logs. Kind of sucks for me. If I had any of the three I lost I would love to get ahold of some of those trunks. It would give me a real good reason to get a stihl 880. At the moment I have 3000-4000bf stacked. Most of the wood I get now is for bowl turning on the lathe.

Thanks
Chris



mikeb1079 said:


> hey hazard, actually the reduction plant is open to the public (kind of). if you have a trailer or pickup truck, you can usually just drive in there and get one of the streets workers to load up stuff for you (they run a couple of end loaders to put all the trees into the giant chipper/shredder). lots of folks just pull in there and have them load up mulch for them, i'm sure they wouldn't care if you asked them to put a trunk piece into a trailer or something. after all, the mulch that they make is taken to drop off sites around town and is free to the public anyway. pm me if you need more info.


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## mikeb1079 (Sep 27, 2009)

*finished my milling jig*

sooo....finally got my jig finished. several of you guys helpfully suggested using something like unistrut or t track for the rails so that it would be adjustable for any size bar, but i didn't have any on hand so i went with the stock that was available at the shop (ie scrap). the main problem that i ran into with my neighbors jig (which i was using for my first couple of milling jobs) was that the allen head bolts were vibrating loose as the cut progressed. this was a huge problem because the cut depth would change as the bolts loosened and the jig would jam (and my boards were greatly uneven). i could've used some blue loctite, but i felt like over time i would be fighting this same situation again. thus, i decided to use the perforated stock with the predrilled holes and pins that you can just pop in or out. the advantage with these is that they ain't coming loose, and you can get a rough depth set quickly. i couldn't try it out as i'm waiting for a new sprocket for the 075 so that i can run 3/8 pitch chain. i'll let you know how it goes, but for now check out the mikeymill. just for fun i thought i'd try to match the "stihl orange" by painting the jig.  check the photos here:

http://s774.photobucket.com/albums/yy26/mikeb1079/

let me know what'cha think.


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## BobL (Sep 27, 2009)

mikeb1079 said:


> let me know what'cha think.



OK you asked. 

Firstly it looks like it's well made although I wouldn't mind being able to see some close ups of the bits and pieces. 

Some problems I can see

1) Handles.
The only handle is poorly located. The location of your handle will have the operator bending over more than necessary. Also on narrow logs, operator will be placing their arm/hand across top of bar so potentially dangerous. Also handle needs good padding like a mountain bike handle bar grip, unless a $50 pair of gel padded gloves is used. CSMs can use multiple handles and one of the most useful is a handle that runs the full length of and 6" above the the mill railsh

2) Too much fixed welding of everything, eg Handle is welded in place, and mill is a fixed length. It's always better to build in adjustments from the beginning. Any one operator might only end up using a few adjustments but its better than having none at all.
they won't always want to be milling with their hands wide apart with their left hand always on the trigger. Then the operator can slip a cable tie over the trigger and move their left hand up to the wrap handle. This closes the operators arms and makes for a much more comfortable stance. But your wrap handle will have vibe transferred to it from the bar so it will be less comfortable than it could be. If you want to reduce vibe between the mill uprights add a strong bungee cord between the top of teh uprights.

4) The middle of the mill needs an adjustable cross piece to make it easier to start and end cuts otherwise you will get dips or wedged ends.

Despite what I said, all in all quite a good first attempt but there are a few improvements you can make if you want to.


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## mikeb1079 (Sep 27, 2009)

*input*

hey bob, thanks for the feedback. i didn't provide any close ups so you guys wouldn't see my welds! :biggrinbounce2: i'm half kidding, they're not pretty but they'll be safe. about the handle, i knew as soon as i welded it there (without the powerhead in place for reference) that it was too far away from the trigger (d'oh!). the bungee cord idea is good, i think i'll use that instead of my bent metal piece. i wanted something to help alleviate the weight of the powerhead hanging off the back end because without that it bows the bar up pretty well. the bungee, like you say, won't transmit nearly as much vibration.
i was going to put a cross piece the width of the frame so that you could grab it anywhere (and assist with the start and end of the cut). i think i'll do that, it won't take too much time to cut my upright handle out of there with a grinder.
as usual, there's alot of kinks to work out but that's half the fun!
oh, i forgot to mention that the whole assembly bar/chain/fuel/jig comes in just over fifty pounds. not light, but it'll do.


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## Brmorgan (Sep 28, 2009)

BobL said:


> OK you asked.
> 
> Firstly it looks like it's well made although I wouldn't mind being able to see some close ups of the bits and pieces.
> 
> ...




What happened to #3?:monkey:

All in all good points though. The only thing I think I'd add is that while using the perforated squaretube for posts does provide for very quick and repeatably accurate depth adjustment, I can almost guarantee that you'll quickly find yourself wanting to be able to make fine adjustments to the depth. For instance, just switching from low-profile chain to, say, 3/8" .063 full chisel, will change the kerf width by 1/16" or more and throw off the depth of cut accordingly. Granted this may or may not be a big concern to you depending on what you're planning on doing with your milled lumber.

I did notice one other thing - in the seventh picture, it appears that the bar clamps on the drive end of the bar don't have a tapered end like those on an Alaskan. If that is indeed the case, you'll probably end up finding that those flat ends will want to gouge and hang up on bark etc. as the mill travels down the log. At the least I would recommend tapering the ends out a bit; and in general as far as the drive-end bar clamps go, longer is better since they will ride over irregularities easier. Bob will probably recommend a roller wheel or two be installed to guide along the contours of the log, and to be honest I probably would too, but I haven't tried it yet myself.


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## Ted J (Sep 28, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> What happened to #3?:monkey:
> 
> .......



Brad, shhhhhhhhh... Bob's in Australia, they don't have a #3 down there....LOL 
Actually we should be surprised he knew there was a number 4!

Ted


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## Ted J (Sep 28, 2009)

I have one question though. Is the saw mounted correctly? Should it be flipped 180 degrees around, putting the handle closer to where you would be standing? (I guess if you were right handed, the trigger with your left hand and the handle in the right hand.)





Also, does your chainsaw have a trigger lock?

Ted


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## BobL (Sep 28, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> I did notice one other thing - in the seventh picture, it appears that the bar clamps on the drive end of the bar don't have a tapered end like those on an Alaskan. If that is indeed the case, you'll probably end up finding that those flat ends will want to gouge and hang up on bark etc. as the mill travels down the log.



Doh ! - that was my number #3 :monkey:

Was doing a bit of AS browsing at work and started answering mikes post, had all 4 points in my head and some dude came in and distracted me - Fancy that - work interrupting my AS activities :jawdrop:



> At the least I would recommend tapering the ends out a bit; and in general as far as the drive-end bar clamps go, longer is better since they will ride over irregularities easier. Bob will probably recommend a roller wheel or two be installed to guide along the contours of the log, and to be honest I probably would too, but I haven't tried it yet myself.


Yeah , get a skid, or a wheel of something onto that.


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## Andrew96 (Sep 28, 2009)

Mike....well I like it. Can you not put the 'square' on the other way around so that bit of pipe sticking up is your handle? Any design can be made better, more versitile..but yours has some speed to it. Though I don't have the time on a mill that everyone else has (only 25 hrs maybe), I spent more time goofing around setting bar heights than I'd like (threaded rod height adjustment). Though your setup may not have fine adjustment..it's fast..very fast. No wrenches required. Much better than the first revision of a mill that I'm goofing with. R2 is on the drawing board. I like your quick change setup. I pretty much just cut 8/4 rough cut slabs. Without much thought...too bad your uprights are drilled already. You look like you had enough room to make multiple holes on 2 faces (drilled as a set). It looks like two holes per side could fit (maybe more). Say X" up the bar..then X+3/8, then X+ 3/4", then 2X etc. You could then just move your pin up a bit..but not a full inch or whatever your pin hole spacing is. I like that. 
I agree with BobL though....Point #4 down under. Some cross brace in the middle so you are not just hanging on the ends. 
Look at mine. It's very crude compared to yours...It's got wheels though (new power head already in house), cross braces, and a stupid fixed handle tacked on just to see if I liked it's location. For this small setup...the handle worked fine but I end up putting my hand on top of the square scrap stock and yes...it vibrates my hand until I stop. I'd rather have a long cross bar though I'm scared to use a zip tie on the throttle.


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## BobL (Sep 28, 2009)

mikeb1079 said:


> i wanted something to help alleviate the weight of the powerhead hanging off the back end because without that it bows the bar up pretty well.



This is why some folks go for a mill design that bolts the inboard end to the bar bolts.

Anyway, if the bar is bowing up then you can try fudging the bar clamps by welding wedges to the faces of the bar clamps like this. Experiment with unwelded wedges first and then weld the wedges on. DO not just clamp them into place - the saw vibe will shake them out in no time and your chain will be cutting bar clamp bolts!






I have never done this myself but I heard from someone that it does work, You should also do it on both clamps.

If that fails you can try the reverse of the anti-bar-sag device. 

Is that an anti-erectile-bar device?


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## mikeb1079 (Sep 28, 2009)

*good advice*

thanks for the feedback guys. the point about tube on the engine side not having tapered ends or rollers is excellent. this i meant to do but forgot about until you guys mentioned it. the square stock i used was pre drilled, i didn't have to drill any of that, which is why i liked it. the downside of course, as noted, is that i lose any fine adjustment ability. i'm hoping that will be ok however as i'm planning to resaw (or at least plane) down any stock that i cut.
i have two questions for ya though: 1. how do you get those large uploaded pics? i had to resize mine to thumbnail size 2. how do you use quotes in your response? i checked the forum faq but it says nothing about it.
thanks again
mb


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## Brmorgan (Sep 28, 2009)

I use a program called ACDSee as an image viewer and for basic editing tasks such as resizing and cropping. Anything more serious and I move up to Photoshop. ACDSee isn't free though and might not be worth paying for if you don't work with photos a lot like I do, but there are free programs that will do the same job, such as IrfanView. I've used it a few times and it does the job fine, just not quite as polished as a commercial product. There are also some online image resizing services but I can't recommend any simply because I haven't used them.

The secret to getting higher resolution JPEGs in under the 300KB limit is to raise the compression level. This does of course decrease the image quality accordingly, but I've found that _most of the time_ if I set the compression to about 70-75% I can get a 1024X768 image under 300KB while maintaining decent quality.

If you want to quote an entire post, that's easy - just click the "quote" button at the bottom-right of the post itself, instead of the "post reply" button at the bottom of the page. This will open a "post reply" window with the text already quoted for you in the message box.

If you want to quote individual bits of text, you'll have to copy & paste them into the message box. Once there, highlight the text you want to quote, and hit the little "thought bubble" icon at the top, to the left of the "*#*" button. This will wrap HTML quote tags around the text, which look like this: [ QUOTE ] <insert text here> [ /QUOTE ]. Note that I left spaces between the brackets there, otherwise the browser would have actually quoted the <insert text here> section. These tags can of course also be typed in manually, which can be faster once you get used to doing it. If you want to include the username of the person being quoted, it will have to be included in the first tag behind an *=* sign, like this: [ QUOTE=brmorgan ] 

Hope that helps!


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## mikeb1079 (Sep 28, 2009)

*thank yew, thank yew*

yep, i wanted to quote bits of text, and now i know how. thanks! also, nice work on the photo resize/compression tip.


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## BobL (Sep 28, 2009)

Andrew is right, move the powerhead to the other end - like this. 






Doh, now why didn't I think of that?

I know it was that strap from the wrap handle to the mill that threw me.


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## mikeb1079 (Sep 28, 2009)

> Andrew is right, move the powerhead to the other end - like this



in my limited experience, i've had better luck (and was more comfortable) pulling the mill thru the wood, rather than pushing it. maybe i was doing something wrong? seems like you guys prefer the push. thoughts?


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## BobL (Sep 29, 2009)

mikeb1079 said:


> in my limited experience, i've had better luck (and was more comfortable) pulling the mill thru the wood, rather than pushing it. maybe i was doing something wrong? seems like you guys prefer the push. thoughts?



It should not be necessary to push or pull. If the log is sloping downhill it should cut by itself, or at most with a light pressure.

Anyway - you guys must be sick of me saying this - if you haven't heard this before look here.


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## Andrew96 (Sep 29, 2009)

Geez....BobL can build some pretty cool looking milling setups with photoshop. That's funny looking..you could invite a friend who likes to push..and you can pull. 
It's funny BobL...at my old job I was the guy going on and on about ergonomics in design. I appreciate your input..and constantly pointing other readers (future millers) to good setups. Build it once...build it right. 
Yesterday was my first time posting a photo so it shows up as a picture rather than an attachment. It easier than you think (looks better too). I read about it here http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=90494&highlight=insert+photo (that btw was my first link)

Mike...I have limited experience as well but I cannot see how pulling would be easy. With a small mill (not the super lightweight trick ones you see here all the time), I have to "push" with maybe 2-3lbs of pressure on the saw+mill (I have wheels though). I use slightly more pressure actually cutting than it would take to slide my setup across the board I used (2X12) as a top starter board without cutting. I just let the saw eat it's way through. I don't wiggle it back and forth or anything (seems to cut with a smoother finish if I don't). I just apply some pressure...and follow along. If you're going to weld some other stuff on this setup..put another 2 uprights (short stubs) on either end, span the whole thing with a tube (as a cross handle), light thinwall stuff though, stick something rubbery on the pipe like a bicycle grip or foam pipe wrap or something. You'll have a nice handle to move the whole thing around with (pick it up by the handle near the balance point). Add 1 or 2 cross flats to the square...again thin stuff. When cutting, you'll be able to straight arm it (like in Bob's previous posts), put your hand on the bar as far apart as feels good for that height of log, and sort of lean into it a bit without vibrating your hand off like mine does. I haven't tried down hill milling yet but since I know how much pressure I used milling on the flat...I could see it would pretty much go itself. As of yet...I don't think I'd lift a log up just to cut downhill...but you never know.


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## BobL (Sep 29, 2009)

OK - no more funny stuff.


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