# Would you buy a mill to build a house?



## Soilarch (Feb 24, 2009)

I'm looking at the daunting task of building/buying my first house in the next couple of years. (I'm graduating in May).

Of course, buying is easier...wouldn't we all prefer to _build_ though?

What makes this even remotely feasible is that I live in a very rural area and my family owns land and some wood. We are farmers by trade.

I do not have specifics of the house plans, or what species of wood....etc...etc...etc...loan rates, budget, timeline....etc...etc...etc. I do know that right now you're NOT going to get a building loan period. You can get a loan to buy, but not build. I can say that our's is your typical midwest mix of Oak and maples with hickories through in for good measure. (Hickory is no-no for building anyways...I think...no? I'm off topic now.)

I'm basically asking if you guys think it would be worth the effort to spend the winters cutting, milling, and storing hardwoods for the 2x portion of framing...and if things work out some larger stuff for decorations. (I certainly won't be building a dream-house ranch home with vaulted ceilings and massive 12x12 exposed rafters...but I'm sure I could work "nicer" things here and there.) I should make the disclaimer that this thread is for looking a minimum 2 years into the future...more likely 5-10.

Go out, get some books, or take the path more traveled and leave my time body and mind for other things?


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## jburlingham (Feb 24, 2009)

Well, i think that you could possibly save some money by milling your own lumber, but the question is what kind of time are you willing to invest?
It will take some serious time to fell the wood, mill it out and let it dry, as well as over plan for some that will inherently warp.
I think if you do chose to mill it all yourself, you should consider doing it for the love of having built as much of it yourself as possible and the pride to pass on to your family, because in the end it will take time and that is worth something. 

Also before you decide one way or the other, get plans for a house you like and figure out how much lumber you will need.


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## Backwoods (Feb 24, 2009)

If you are just wanting to mill the studs then I would say no not worth the time money and effort involved. However if you plan to build the whole house all the way from beams for the foundation to the sheathing on the roof including framing siding, both inside and out, using exclusively your own wood for the entire project including all the cabinets, doors and window trim then a mill would be a worth while investment in time, money, and effort, as the end result would give you a life time of satisfaction. 
Just my 2 cents.


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## BobL (Feb 24, 2009)

No - but that's just me - your motivations may be different.


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## excess650 (Feb 24, 2009)

If you had lots of decent sized softwoods, I would say maybe, thinking log house and Alaskan mill. In that all you've mentioned is hardwood, I'm thinking a bandmill would be better, certainly quicker. Are you thinking of a timberframe? It would require less logs/beams than a log house, and you could cut flooring and other boards.

You say that your family is farmers, so I'm assuming that you would have equipment to MOVE logs, and if so, you might be better to cut the timber and haul it to a local mill.


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## hazard (Feb 24, 2009)

I would mill the wood to have it for future use whether it is for your house or furniture.

I could see milling wood for your cabinets, trim and flooring. I sure wouldn't use hardwoods to frame the house.

I have no idea how many board feet it would take to do the above stuff in say a 2000sf house. Maybe 2000bf of lumber sawed. Get milling.

When I was at the peak of my milling 10yrs ago we had an apple orchard with all the goodies. Tractors, trailers and space. We sold the farm 8yrs ago. Appreciate that equipment

Chris


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## sawyerloggingon (Feb 24, 2009)

I bought a mill to build my house. If your just thinking studs, forget it. That being said,remember all the out buildings you will need,garage, barn, shop, chicken coop etc. I'm building post and beam 1, because I like it, 2 because owning a mill makes it possible.As far as I'm concered if you have timber land and like to build your own stuff, not having a mill is not an option.Just keeping up with windfalls, bug trees and the like will give you logs to mill every year not to mention thinning out junk for a healthy forest. Having a supply of lumber on hand is also good for occassional barter. I've traded beams and lumber for welding on my tractor, a side of beef and a gun.


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## SilverBox (Feb 24, 2009)

I've considered this same thing and I came to the conclusion that with a chain saw mill (CSM) its not worth it to mill smaller framing lumber, doug fir 2x lumber at the yard is VERY cheap right now. 

The only wood for framing to me thats worth milling is the big stuff 4x12 or bigger. 

It takes a little longer to make a 4x12 then it does to make a 2x4, but spending 10 min to make a stud that you can buy at the store for $1.40 just doesn't make sense, but spending 20 min to make a 4x12 that is $30 makes more sense. If you invest in a band saw you can mill much faster and more efficiently (smaller kerf=less waste), but that gets expensive real fast, you can buy all the 2x lumber you need for a moderate house at the yard for less then the cost of a small bandsaw mill. 

Any hardwood for flooring or cabinetry you might want to mill also, as its more expensive and you can justify the time it takes to mill with a CSM. But then you'll likely need a flatbed planer and a joiner to finish the wood, and a router table to tongue and groove the flooring. I'm considering this option for myself, as I have quite a bit of oak that would make real nice flooring and cabinets (more then a house's worth) and already have everything I'll need except a router table.


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## Soilarch (Feb 24, 2009)

sawyerloggingon said:


> I bought a mill to build my house. If your just thinking studs, forget it. That being said,remember all the out buildings you will need,garage, barn, shop, chicken coop etc. I'm building post and beam 1, because I like it, 2 because owning a mill makes it possible.As far as I'm concered if you have timber land and like to build your own stuff, not having a mill is not an option.Just keeping up with windfalls, bug trees and the like will give you logs to mill every year not to mention thinning out junk for a healthy forest. Having a supply of lumber on hand is also good for occassional barter. I've traded beams and lumber for welding on my tractor, a side of beef and a gun.



I can tell you and I think a lot alike!!!

So for the framing it's no a go unless I went bandsaw...but doing that I might not even break-even. Barns, coops, sheds, trailer/wagon floors, bartering are real possibilites. I've looked at Post/Beam (or we just call them pole-barn houses around here) and the down fall is that the taxes have gotten now to were financially it's a tossup. 

I would LOVE to make my own furniture and cabinets....with much time of course, but by the time get a small shop built with all the gadgets, jigs, and tools _*that*_ certainly would be a labor-of-love without financial incentive.

Keep comments and experiences coming.
Thank you

I should add that I'm hoping to farm...which means NO time during the summer some time in late fall, a lot of time during the winter, some time during the spring. (We don't do livestock...but I'm looking at that as well.) If I thought I'd be working 50+hr weeks year 'round I wouldn't even consider this. Instead you work the same hours...probably more...but there all smashed into one side of the calender year.


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## woodsrunner (Feb 24, 2009)

*another thing to consider*

Where I live all the lumber that will be used in a house has to be graded and stamped or the building inspectors won't pass pass you on a framing inspection. If your codes enforcement situation where you live is very stringent that adds a whole nother level of complexity and confusion and aggravation.

Scott


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## Soilarch (Feb 24, 2009)

woodsrunner said:


> Where I live all the lumber that will be used in a house has to be graded and stamped or the building inspectors won't pass pass you on a framing inspection. If your codes enforcement situation where you live is very stringent that adds a whole nother level of complexity and confusion and aggravation.
> 
> Scott



I WILL/WOULD check on this before I bought anything but S. IL is a different world than Florida. My town is the county seat with a pop. of 9,000....and I would be building in the country 10 minutes from town. I interned at a commercial construction general contractor this summer and I'm a Safety and Health major. (OSHA, NFPA, ANSI,...this code and that code, that law and this law, those standards and these standards are my life. Inspections are a definite reality in my life as well. I've pretty much decided that insurance companies run the world. Really. But that's another thread.) 

I do thank you, the little things like that which MAY come back to bite a guy in the rump are the type of things I'm looking for. Good post, good point.


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## mtngun (Feb 24, 2009)

I bought my CSM to build a woodshed. The woodshed would have required more than $1000 in storebought lumber, so I figure that pays for the CSM. Anything else I can do with the CSM is icing on the cake. Or, I could sell the Stihl 066 for about what I paid for it. 

As others have said, it is not cost effective to CSM standard framing lumber. I would be money ahead to buy the lumber and spend all my time working at my regular job. 

Problem is, I need a break from my regular job. After being cooped up inside for a week, I enjoy a day in the woods milling. So I mill framing lumber even though it doesn't make economic sense. I just enjoy the change in routine, and I get more satisfaction from building something with boards I made myself.

Where a CSM makes more sense is milling valuable hardwoods or for milling large beams for post and beam construction.

If you are determined to cut framing lumber with a chainsaw, and if you have a way to haul the logs to your milling site, then you might consider a logosol M7 instead of an Alaskan. The logosol looks to be more comfortable to operate.


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## angelo c (Feb 24, 2009)

Soilarch, 
Coming from the financing side, I would suggest you purchase a property with a habitable structure and be able to get a mortgage on it. Once in the residence you can mill and refurbish and add to existing structures easily when time,finances and local building codes permit. You can mill and store and air dry while deciding what to build and how to do it. As you said, financing lots right now is not an easy process and the local banks will be much easier to deal with if there is a habitable(appraisable) dwelling on it.


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## Soilarch (Feb 24, 2009)

Angelo, I would agree. That's were modular homes (trailers, single and double-wides or whatever else you want to call them) come into play.

What scary is that "modular" now days can run the full gambit of cheap to what many would consider a dream home. One of them went up last spring near our farm and had I not KNOWN there was nothing there 4 months earlier I would have never guessed it was modular!!!! Nice spread with matching shed/shop/garage in back and what I guess they would be calling triple wides???

I certainly won't be going that nice, and unless I have a fit of insanity, I'm the only one who will have to live in the "temperory" establishment. Means to an end....just a means to an end. 


You know, I ask about one thing and I'm getting good solid advice on many things. I only wish classes were half this productive. 

P.S. Something nobody mentioned yet, and that I just thought of, is that porch/deck options open considerably if you mill your own. 

P.S.S. I really like decks.:biggrinbounce2:

You guys have been a big help so far. Here, and in the firewood and chainsaw sections.

mntgun, Logosol has been bookmarked. Many tanks. The M7 doesn't seem protable enough for what I envisioned but I really like their Big Mill Systems.

I should add that I know the parents would like to build again back out in the country (in town for the last 7 year). So this may easily turn into a two-house investment. Me and Dad have a lot of the same interests/likes and we're fortunate enough to get along well.


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## angelo c (Feb 24, 2009)

Soilarch, 
Nothing wrong with Modular homes at all. They have come a long way toward fully customizable structures. In many ways they are superior to stick built. There are also somewhat blended options in pre-cast concrete foundations that are dropped off onsite and then a stick built frame is added. http://www.superiorwalls.com/ . I have seen several of these and years later no complaints what so ever. Take a look into "short Sales" in your area if you are not in a hurry as well.Just make sure your realtor is very familiar with the process.
A


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## 1953greg (Feb 26, 2009)

soilarch
some of the framing is a reasonable endaver if you really really want to. overhead framing becomes nearly impossible due to weight w/o overhead lift very quickly but floor joist and wall studs are doable.

i would suggest that you can hire a mill in your area cheaper than you can mill it yourself. in the past 5 yrs i have had about 6-7k board feet sawed for 15-30 cents/bf by 4 different mills. the .15 was an amish circle mill and the .30 was the best bandmill operator i have ever seen. it dosent even have to be planned, only sanded for panneling on the inside house walls.

for me its cheaper to hire it sawed than doing it myself w/ a csm. but i use my 36" csm to cut slabs that the band mill cannot. 
chain saw milling is sloooooooooow!!!

obtw, whats the significance of your handle?


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## Soilarch (Feb 26, 2009)

Greg, "Soilarch" is simply what I go by on all the forums I visit. Originally I was on hunting forums so I combine Southern Illinois Archer int Soilarch. Nothing magical I'm afraid

With farm equipment handy lifting the beams might be a headache...and might make front page of the _Redneck Register_ but between a forklift, a backhoe and 150hp tractor with frontloader I think it's possible. There's got to be some tricks with a true post-beam construction as well considering all the old barns that are rotting away with massive beams. (Note to self: Find books on old-fashioned barn-raising)

The comment about the Amish is a very good one...we've had about 2 or 3 dozen families move into the area this last year. (Note: Amish families are big...so that's a lot Amisheseseshes) I know they've set up a bakery, tack/leather shop and a cabinetmaker's shop...I need to find out if they've got their own mill.


Here's a final question to throw on the pile.

Do bandmills hold there value? (Obviously namebrands and such play a big role in this.) Reason I'm asking is 7kx$.25 is getting close to $2K.

I honestly don't have a clue what 7K b/f looks like...and certainly can't _guess_ how many beams would hold...I guess if I had a plan sitting in front of my desk I could push the numbers around and get an idea. (Kinda like I _use_ to know that a cord was 4X4X8 but didn't have any sense of how much wood that really was until I started cutting firewood.)

Thank you,

I think the general consensus so far has been "sure, you can" but that there will be better/easier/quicker ways to skin the cat if I don't mind letting someone else hold the knife.


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## MJR (Feb 26, 2009)

I lived over by the Daniel Boon National Forest in KY. I really enjoyed it. The people are first rate and the hard woods are beautiful. I strong believe you can build your own house with a band mill or a jack knife given enough time. I have a little Lumber Lite band mill from Norwood. It can be had for under $3000. If you do get a manual band mill and build your house, you will have no extra fat on you at all. 

Good luck to you.


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## Soilarch (Feb 26, 2009)

MJR said:


> I have a little Lumber Lite band mill from Norwood. It can be had for under $3000. If you do get a manual band mill and build your house, you will have no extra fat on you at all.
> 
> Good luck to you.



What's the saying..."Youth is wasted on the young."


Maybe a little here and there...but I don't want to wast ALL of it!!!


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## 1953greg (Feb 26, 2009)

"Do bandmills hold there value?" 
check out http://www.sawmillexchange.com/band3.htm for used prices. looks like 9200 is bout as low as i would go. anything lower and you would be getting into manual mills. but if you have lots of manual available you can get into the 4-5k range. 

"I honestly haven't a clue what 7k b/f looks like"
thats bout a tractor-trailer load

Reason I'm asking is 7kx$.25 is getting close to $2K."
yep, but it was spread over several years. i can afford 2-300 bux at a time but a mill wood b one pop!!!

you are in hardwood country. surely there are several mills within an hour drive. u can use a circle mill for the framing but for finished surfaces a bandmill is the way to go.

i wood prolly like to own a bandmill. for bout 1 day, then it wood become "work"!!!!!


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## angelo c (Feb 26, 2009)

is there a site for contacting a local portable mill service in our areas?
how fo you find a service locally
A


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## Backwoods (Feb 26, 2009)

This is the sawmill locator that I use for customers that are out of my travel range.
http://westcoastlands.net/


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## willt1981 (Feb 28, 2009)

when i stumbled on your post it seems like i went back in time and was looking at something i would have written. i got out of college six years ago and moved back near my parents and their land to farm. i rented for five years and about three years ago decided that my wife and i wanted to build a house on my parents land. we have 65 acres - about half in mature hardwoods. i bought a bandsaw mill, a manual mill - mister sawmill model 30. talk about a steep learning curve! espically when your milling large hardwoods with no experience or clue what youre doing. I knew that i needed to get some practice working with this setup so i milled lumber to fix our old barns and i built a new barn (24'x36'). Let me go through the problems first... 

hardwood is a serious pain in the ass to mill structural lumber (2x6 or 2x4's) from. as soon as it comes off the mill it wants to bend, crook, warp, whatever. and if it doesnt do anything funky then it will twist and cup as its drying. sometimes acceptable in a barn but not so much in a house. we have a huge amount of large ash and oak trees (28"-30" dbh). these do not saw up well. i finally came to the conclusion that it was smarter to sell these for sawlogs at $500-$1000 per MBF and buy structural lumber. that said we also have a large amount of yellow poplar and basswood. these make MUCH better lumber. theyre eaiser to cut, not as heavy and will warp much less. Large hardwoods arent very easy to work with on a sawmill. the band wants to rise in the middle and make wavy cuts with anything over 24" - espically if its a little seasoned. 

in the end we found a place to buy. our area has bascially been taken over by tourists who want to "own a piece of the mountains". dont get me started... in the last ten years prices of anything ran up so high that you would have to make 100K a year to buy a house and 2 acres. then comes the recession, which i loved to see around here. all the farmers still have their jobs but second home demand collapsed. we bought a small house and 18 acres for 175K and it was only two miles from my parents land. still too much but doable. i still have the mill and have basically redone all the old barns on our place and have a few more in the works. hope this helps - though rereading it its not so encouraging... 

P.S. - in nc if you own your land and cut the lumber from that land and build a house with that lumber that youre going to live in you do not have to have stamped lumber but you will still have go through the entire inspection process.


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## davecharles (Mar 1, 2009)

Soilarch, also look at the type of wood you have available. For example, you may have cypress on your land. A friend of mine build a "log" house from squared 10x10 cypress and loves it. Cypress is resistant to termites and rot. What county are you in? Massac, Pope, Pulaski.
I have 2 housed I built myself, one is in Williamson co and is earth sheltered the other is on an Island In Ontario,Canada and was built from rough sawn cedar that was available in the area.
If you are not in the city limits in Southern Illinois you probably don't have any building codes.
Dave


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## Sawyer Rob (Mar 1, 2009)

> hardwood is a serious pain in the ass to mill structural lumber (2x6 or 2x4's) from. as soon as it comes off the mill it wants to bend, crook, warp, whatever. and if it doesnt do anything funky then it will twist and cup as its drying. sometimes acceptable in a barn but not so much in a house. we have a huge amount of large ash and oak trees (28"-30" dbh). these do not saw up well. i finally came to the conclusion that it was smarter to sell these for sawlogs at $500-$1000 per MBF and buy structural lumber. that said we also have a large amount of yellow poplar and basswood. these make MUCH better lumber. theyre eaiser to cut, not as heavy and will warp much less. Large hardwoods arent very easy to work with on a sawmill. the band wants to rise in the middle and make wavy cuts with anything over 24" - espically if its a little seasoned.



Now all hardwood has problems with bending, warp ect... It depends more on the logs than if it's "hardwood" or not... I saw oak, cherry and other logs "without" any of those problems here where i live...

Another thing... Don't lump all bandmills together when you state that "your's" would dip in big logs. Mine does NOT have this problem, and 99% of the dipping or riseing in the cut, is a "band" problem, not just because it's a "bandmill". Some logs can and will be a problem, but it can always be traced to something causeing it, or it's a problem log, and not just because it's a "bandmill"...

Yes i've seen dips come from bandsaws, yes i've seen "MY" bandmill dip...but changeing out the band cures that problem, and i've sawn a LOT of big hardwood logs...

Rob


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## Soilarch (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm out in the Northern Half of Saline County...which is a different world than the Southern half. South half looks like more Like Pope and Hardin county.

No Cypress...that I'm aware of, there are some nice spots of Cedars...well evergreens at least, but we don't own any of them.

Just today Dad had an idea that was surprisingly good. (Funny how the old man _keeps_ getting smarter! lol He must've learned a lot since I was in High School:biggrinbounce2

It would solve the temporary housing situation, the "building" loan situation, be cheap as well, let me get some more home construction experience (not done much with houses...mostly sheds, barns, silos, and a lot of crazy stuff that wouldn't fit into any category), and to be honest...I just plain like it.


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## infomet (Mar 5, 2009)

I did it, but I hired a Woodmizer and operator. I think I paid $35/hr. Part of the time there was a helper and part of the time o dod the offbearing. What a good way to lose weight!

If the wood is free, pine, and you have time, it's great. You need to stack and cover the wood for several months.

In many areas, getting an architech to write on the plans that the locally milled wood is OK will get over the grading problem.

The hardwood is great, but not for framing. i did all my floors and cabinetry with it. I had the floor wood kiln dried and milled.

Get your plans in shape, so you have an idea what you need.

Long 2X4s are very prone to warp...stack carefully.
Use 2X6 studs, for more insulation. Watch out for window depths. They are made for commercial 2X6s, not full sized rough ones.

The Woodmizer is backed by a fantastic sales/advertizing dept., but i DO NOT think it's the best mill. The cantilever arrangement is a bit flexible and can cause trouble. The four post mills are more rigid and there are many brands.

You can't beat the price of OSB these days for subfloor, sheathing, and roof decking, so I wouldn't bother with that, except subfloor, maybe, if you have a lot of pine available.

Remember, the trim and cabinetry will have to be planed. The chinese 15" planers are wonderful and will save loads of time. Mine's a Leneave and I couldn't live without it. $1000 well spent!

SO, if you have a good paying job, milling doesn't compare well. If you are not working, or the option is a low pay job, then milling looks pretty good, especially for columns and girders. My girders are 3 2X16s...much easier to handle than a 6X16!

It's a LOT of wood, though, so you'll get a lot of exercise moving it around!


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## striperswaper (Mar 5, 2009)

willt981 has some good experience...
since you say you only have hardwood, post and beam construction is the only practical way to use it.
think about cutting a few typical trees and have somebody bandsaw them into beams for you. either on your site or theirs. then you can see what work is involved, what they look like first cut and dry 
there is nothing like a hardwood post and beam house. my neighbor has one with the stressed skin panels a real show place and his sugarhouse is post and beam too, nicer than many houses
read up on the net and you might want to try the old fashion library there are some good books by guys that have done what you are thinking of
good luck which ever way you go


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## willt1981 (Mar 5, 2009)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Now all hardwood has problems with bending, warp ect... It depends more on the logs than if it's "hardwood" or not... I saw oak, cherry and other logs "without" any of those problems here where i live...
> 
> Another thing... Don't lump all bandmills together when you state that "your's" would dip in big logs. Mine does NOT have this problem, and 99% of the dipping or riseing in the cut, is a "band" problem, not just because it's a "bandmill". Some logs can and will be a problem, but it can always be traced to something causeing it, or it's a problem log, and not just because it's a "bandmill"...
> 
> ...



i guess i should make myself a little more clear. compared to white pine or eastern hemlock hardwood is a pain in the ass to mill - espically structural lumber. that said, i have made good structural lumber from hardwood. there is much more of a cull rate with hardwood though. i have sawed very few studs or joists that didnt have a little bend to them after drying. this struck me as being a problem for a house - although there are allowences for warp in stud grade material. but if you have a ton of hardwood and no mill to sell it to - or no desire to sell it - it can be done. it is just going to be alot more difficult than if you had a nice stand of hemlock. i have made a conscious decision to use hardwood 2x6 joists in the old barns im redoing because of the amount of weight im putting on them in hay. a house wouldnt need this high weight capacity though.

i will have to admit that as my knowledge of sawmilling has grown i now have fewer problems sawing large hardwood logs. like rob said the band is basically everything. for large hardwood i now use woodmizer blades which are set at a 4 degree angle and have fewer problems than i used to. but this all goes back to one of my original points that milling good lumber is a steep learning curve. espically for hardwood. dont be afraid to try milling your own house. just be aware that its going to be more difficult that you think it is at this moment.


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## DebianDog (Mar 6, 2009)

sawyerloggingon said:


> I've traded beams and lumber for welding on my tractor, a side of beef and a gun.



make me want a mill!


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