# shaving removal



## bombdude (Apr 29, 2008)

I'm one of those grinders that never removes shavings, although I've had a few customers request it. I usually grade & level them, & dress them up with a rake.

Actually, I did 2 removals. The first reminded me of why I don't like to do it. The second I paid my 19 yr old son when he was home from college. 

Anyway, I've thought about using a large backpack blower to blow the shavings outta the hole, & then scoop/rake them up. I carry a small hand blower with me for cleanup of porches & sidewalks when necessary, but I know it ain't got the power to blow shavings.

Have any of y'all tried this?? Does it work??

I guess a part of me is itching to buy a new power tool, but I hate to buy something that doesn't do the job.


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## arbor pro (Apr 29, 2008)

bombdude said:


> I'm one of those grinders that never removes shavings, although I've had a few customers request it. I usually grade & level them, & dress them up with a rake.
> 
> Actually, I did 2 removals. The first reminded me of why I don't like to do it. The second I paid my 19 yr old son when he was home from college.
> 
> ...



Using a blower doesn't make much sense to me. You'll just scatter the chips all over the place again. 

If you want to keep costs low, then rake/blow everything to the hole. Go to a farm supply store and buy one of those 12-prong (about 18" wide) pitch forks. They work great for wood chips. If you can't pitch them directly into a pickup or trailer, then spend another $100 on a poly wheelbarrow and make a small ramp for running the wheelbarrow up into the vehicle.

I cleaned up several hundred stumps this way before investing in a mini skid loader with a grapple bucket (but that costs a bit more than your average power tool).


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## BC WetCoast (Apr 30, 2008)

A backpack blower has enough power to blow the mulch out, depending on how wet is, how much dirt and mud is mixed in, whether you packed it down with the machine. 

A skid steer is out of the question, so all removal is using the armstrong machinery.

All I'm supplied with is a 4 pronged pitch fork, a steel tined leaf rake and a grain scoop. If the mulch is sitting on a flat surface (eg concrete or grass), then the grain scoop works well running it along the interface. For a pile of mulch I use the pitch fork. The rake allows me to clear out the hole pretty quickly.

If I can't scoop directly into the truck, then I either use a wheelbarrow or garbage can. If I have to climb stairs, then garbage can it is. 

Mulch hauling should be priced minimum at the same price as the stump, and realistically more.


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## stevieb (Apr 30, 2008)

On the same subject. I don't take the spoil away. Never have and I always put it to the customer I earn £100.00 per hour on these machines, can they afford to pay me to take it away, and they dont get charged for it, machine time only. However in the autumn I see the council trucks going around sucking up the leafs. They use a self powered engine on the back of a pick up with a hose about 6" dia. About 10/mtrs long and I often thought what a great idea and very quick.


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## Blakesmaster (Apr 30, 2008)

I don't usually grind stumps. I do climbing for a buddy of mine with a grinder and trade off our stumps to him. Mainly cause I hate it. When I do borrow his machine for our stumps I always haul the mulch. Pitchfork, stone rake, shovel and wheel barrow. Not much fun but it definitely makes for a cleaner looking job site, which usually means more neighborhood work. 

Does anyone hear topsoil and seed after they clean up the mulch? If so, how do you price that?


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## jason2078 (May 1, 2008)

*cleanup-pricing*

I usually get 2.00 an inch on jobs where the inches add up to enough to keep it at 2.00 otherwise, I get 3.00 an inch. If its a 2.00 an inch job I offer to clean up chips and backfill the last 2 to 3 inches over the top of wood chips with top soil and grass seed for 3.00 an inch. I use a grain shovel and pitch fork as well as three 55 gallon rubbermaid heavy duty trash cans on wheels to get the shavings to my trailer. I would say on average half my jobs are chip removals and soil replacement and when the stumps are big that extra buck an inch really adds up and like someone said " a clean job leads to more jobs".


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## Bigstumps (May 3, 2008)

I've always avoided it. My little grinder has a blade on it and I've gotten pretty good at pusing the stuff back in the whole and grading it pretty flat - this is as far as I'm going though - too much work to take it away and backfill it.

The Sandvik doesn't scatter the chips near like my other grinders.


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## treemandan (May 3, 2008)

I grind the stump, axe out laterals, scoop it all up about 3 inches below grade, flaten the mound, haul in soil, seed, straw, spread all that crap around and turn on the hose- so there.


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## Mowingman (May 3, 2008)

I do not remove shavings from stump grinding. I just rake up the pile as neat as possible. The property owner can do whatever they want with them. When someone asks me about removing them, I give them the names of a couple of my friends who do landscaping.
Shovel and wheelbarrow handles do not fit my hands anymore.


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## stevieb (May 5, 2008)

I do take my hat off to you guy's that remove the spoil. It must be very satisfying to look back and see a neat job? But the truth is while your doing that i'v moved onto my next job. And at the end of the day when my nearest competitors are doing the same I don't feel the need to change. On the odd occasions I have put a price in for removal the customer never bite's.

However I'm not blind to the fact there is an opportunity to make money which is being overlooked. I know on many occasions they have brought in local landscapers and Gardner's to re-instate the ground with topsoil, turf, slabbing and even the odd bag of tarmac. So there is good money to be made outside of what would normally be considered just a removal of the spoil.

Does anyone do re-instating on a regular basis and what percentage of the stump customers ask for it. Also is it worth doing compared with grinding revenue?


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## dave k (May 5, 2008)

When asked how the job will be done I always reply that the stump and any major running roots will be removed the area will be left tidy and that they should leave the chips to settle for about a 7-10 day period on a large stump before they do any reinstatement work. I find it stops them asking you about doing the work. You can tell some folk arn't sure what is to be left behind but the sandvik leaves good chip behind and before Im finished quite often the customer will say how they will use the chips elsewhere in the garden. 

So it's not that I don't remove grindings it's more a case of getting the customer to not even think about asking you ! On small stumps I advise them to take top couple of inch off and replace with soil from elsewhere in garden and reseed. 

In the two odd years since stopping climbing and doing stumps only I've never done a removal of grindings and it has made no impact on work,but ,never say never !!


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## Curbside (May 5, 2008)

jason2078 said:


> I usually get 2.00 an inch on jobs where the inches add up to enough to keep it at 2.00 otherwise, I get 3.00 an inch. If its a 2.00 an inch job I offer to clean up chips and backfill the last 2 to 3 inches over the top of wood chips with top soil and grass seed for 3.00 an inch. I use a grain shovel and pitch fork as well as three 55 gallon rubbermaid heavy duty trash cans on wheels to get the shavings to my trailer. I would say on average half my jobs are chip removals and soil replacement and when the stumps are big that extra buck an inch really adds up and like someone said " a clean job leads to more jobs".



I'm assuming you are charging 2 or 3 an inch just for cleanup or does that include the grinding. You supply soil for that as well. Sounds like a good deal for the customer.


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## Steve-Maine (May 5, 2008)

*Steve-Maine*

I did stump grinding for 41 years and never haul any chips. I think we lost only 1 or 2 jobs because we wouldn't haul chips. There is alot more money grinding that cleaning up. When the customer called I explained over phone before looking at job that we didn't do clean up. We did of coarse clean drive, walks, and street. Most people where glad to get some mulch or let their landscaper clean up.


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## jason2078 (May 12, 2008)

*$3.00 an inch*

$3.00 an inch gets my customers a ground out stump, chip removal, soil replacement, and grass seed. I use a helper to dig out around stumps, pick up chips, replace top soil and grass seed while I move on to the next stump in the yard. I use an 18 foot trailer to haul my vermeer 252 on so it leaves plenty of room to haul my garbage cans full of stump grindings. You would be suprised how many people will still have you put the grindings somewhere in the yard which makes it even easier. The average stump only needs 3 bags of top soil at $1.27 a bag (wal-mart). so, a 30 inch stump that would pay 60.00 with no removal of grindings then pays 90.00 in half a hour lets say. That extra $30 costs $3.81 for top soil, grass seed a few cents, and $4.00 for a half hour helper wage, leaving $22 extra dollars on a 30 inch stump. How can you go wrong? Not to mention the word of mouth business you get.


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## oldirty (May 13, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> .
> 
> If you want to keep costs low, then rake/blow everything to the hole. Go to a farm supply store and buy one of those 12-prong (about 18" wide) pitch forks. They work great for wood chips. If you can't pitch them directly into a pickup or trailer, then spend another $100 on a poly wheelbarrow and make a small ramp for running the wheelbarrow up into the vehicle.
> 
> ...


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## ropensaddle (May 13, 2008)

oldirty said:


> arbor pro said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...


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## oldirty (May 13, 2008)

sorry bub.

not much cotton where i come from. hence the different name. 

lol


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## ropensaddle (May 13, 2008)

oldirty said:


> sorry bub.
> 
> not much cotton where i come from. hence the different name.
> 
> lol



Just telling you the real name and why they were made.
They work for many things very handy but were made
for scooping cottonseed back into the augers to be smashed 
by a roll machine then made into cooking oil.


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## oldirty (May 13, 2008)

thank you for the info


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## stevieb (May 13, 2008)

Jason 2078 that sounds like a nightmare. I can understand it if you have work 5-days a week every day with out fail. But like a lot of stump grinding outfits is hard work to keep the machines running all day everyday and you need to make it where you can. I have over £70'000 tied up in equipment, 3-machines, SC352, SG13, SC252(back-up). Van, Trailer, selection of saws, blower, tools, cable detecting equipment etc.. etc... and you just have to keep as much profit as you can. I aim to get £100.00 per hour. Sounds a lot but when you average the working hours out on the year it's no longer £100 per hour. We have a lot of down time and people the UK are not spending money at the moment. When you consider I had a plumber in the other day. Tatty van and a bag of spanners and hes charging £45.00 an hour. Where's the investment??? I replace my stuff every 3-years. There is no way I could afford a helper. I would like one...


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## jason2078 (May 14, 2008)

*I average 100.00 an hour as well.*

I average 100.00 dollars an hour gross, so, I think I can afford a helper. But, like you said it takes getting enough jobs/hours a day too.


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## arbor pro (May 14, 2008)

jason2078 said:


> $3.00 an inch gets my customers a ground out stump, chip removal, soil replacement, and grass seed. I use a helper to dig out around stumps, pick up chips, replace top soil and grass seed while I move on to the next stump in the yard. I use an 18 foot trailer to haul my vermeer 252 on so it leaves plenty of room to haul my garbage cans full of stump grindings. You would be suprised how many people will still have you put the grindings somewhere in the yard which makes it even easier. The average stump only needs 3 bags of top soil at $1.27 a bag (wal-mart). so, a 30 inch stump that would pay 60.00 with no removal of grindings then pays 90.00 in half a hour lets say. That extra $30 costs $3.81 for top soil, grass seed a few cents, and $4.00 for a half hour helper wage, leaving $22 extra dollars on a 30 inch stump. How can you go wrong? Not to mention the word of mouth business you get.



My method and prices are similar for cleanup and soil replacement. I carry my vermeer 252 grinder next to my bobcat mt50 mini skidsteer with grapple on a 14' flabed trailer behind my f350 dump truck. After I grind stumps and load up the grinder, I back out the skidsteer and make quick work of cleaning up the stumps. The grindings go right in the front of the truck dump bed. Out comes the topsoil (bulk, not bagged) which is loaded near the back of the dump bed. 

Total time to grind a 30" stump is around 20 minutes depending on species and age. Price is generally around $1.50-$2.00 per inch so around $50 for this size stump. I get 50% of the grinding cost for each the cleanup and the dirt fill (sometimes more) so about another $50 for this stump to clean it up and fill it with dirt. The cleanup and fill takes me about 20 minutes to do both.

So, 20 minutes @ $50 to grind a 30" stump using a $14k stump grinder and 20 minutes @ $50 to cleanup and fill the same stump using a $14k mini skid. Same time, same equipment costs, same labor exerted, same income.

I've just doubled my sales for this job by offering cleanup and fill. I'm able to do this because I have the right equipment setup for it. 

My guess is that most of you who don't want to do cleanup are using big grinders being pulled behind regular pickups. So, if you were to offer cleanup, you would likely have to make a seperate trip with a dump truck or hand-pitch the grindings into your regular pickup and then hand-pitch them back out. Same with dirt. Nobody would make much money cleaning up and filling stumps this way.

Now that I also have a large pull-behind grinder, I have adapted my f350 dump truck so that I can load my mini skid sideways right behind the cab of the truck (I cut the truck sides and hinged them inward so I can turn the 12' dump box into a 9' box with 3' space to load the 3' wide skid steer). Now I can still use my mini skid to clean up stumps that I grind with my pull-behind grinder.

If you have an equipment setup like I have, it is very easy and lucrative to offer cleanup and dirt fill. You can double your sales doing so and it's really not much more effort than grinding stumps It's all about making your work process more effecient and minimizing or eliminating return visits to the same site - especially with today's fuel prices.


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## ropensaddle (May 14, 2008)

Yeah 40000 dollars in trailer and skid steer is more than 50.00 for a
cottonseed fork! Most people here don't want to even pay for grinding
let alone cleanup so the few that do a fork works fine! I do want a skid
though but not for clean up of grindings even though I agree it will do
great.


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## arbor pro (May 14, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> Yeah 40000 dollars in trailer and skid steer is more than 50.00 for a
> cottonseed fork! Most people here don't want to even pay for grinding
> let alone cleanup so the few that do a fork works fine! I do want a skid
> though but not for clean up of grindings even though I agree it will do
> great.



Used mini skid $7500, 14' trailer $2500. Total monthly payment on a $10,000 note is about $200 including principal and interest. Add insurance, maintenance, fuel, etc and you can figure about $400/month on the high end.

Under the scenario I just described making $50 for 20 minutes worth of cleanup work, you will have your monthly expenses paid for within a single morning's worth of work.

I'm only part-time yet, owning this kind of a setup is still very lucrative for my business. If I were full-time, I'd be rolling in the dough (so long as the work is there). And it sounds as though some of you would certainly have the work if you wanted it so, why not expand your services and make more money?


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## BC WetCoast (May 15, 2008)

stevieb said:


> I do take my hat off to you guy's that remove the spoil. It must be very satisfying to look back and see a neat job? But the truth is while your doing that i'v moved onto my next job. And at the end of the day when my nearest competitors are doing the same I don't feel the need to change. On the odd occasions I have put a price in for removal the customer never bite's.



I miss your logic. If we are charging $100/hr for stump grinding, we are also charging $100/hr for mulch cleanup. At least, that is how you should bid it. So, if I make the same amount of money off one stump as you do on two, then I'm ahead because I don't have the travel expense.

The easy way to see if this would work would be to give a grind only/leave mulch estimate and then a second estimate to remove mulch. This works very well for us.


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## oldirty (May 15, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> oldirty said:
> 
> 
> > For people living in the north the name is a cottonseed fork, correct name!
> ...


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## oldirty (May 15, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> Used mini skid $7500, 14' trailer $2500. Total monthly payment on a $10,000 note is about $200 including principal and interest. Add insurance, maintenance, fuel, etc and you can figure about $400/month on the high end.
> 
> Under the scenario I just described making $50 for 20 minutes worth of cleanup work, you will have your monthly expenses paid for within a single morning's worth of work.
> 
> I'm only part-time yet, owning this kind of a setup is still very lucrative for my business. If I were full-time, I'd be rolling in the dough (so long as the work is there). And it sounds as though some of you would certainly have the work if you wanted it so, why not expand your services and make more money?




sounds like you going after it man. good equipment set up as well.
good luck to you.


edit. i quoted the wrong post. oops, i meant to give props to post#22.


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## arbor pro (May 15, 2008)

oldirty said:


> ropensaddle said:
> 
> 
> > this cottonseed fork you speak of....is it long handled or short handle?
> ...


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## ropensaddle (May 15, 2008)

oldirty said:


> ropensaddle said:
> 
> 
> > this cottonseed fork you speak of....is it long handled or short handle?
> ...


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## jason2078 (May 15, 2008)

```
I miss your logic. If we are charging $100/hr for stump grinding, we are also charging $100/hr for mulch cleanup. At least, that is how you should bid it. So, if I make the same amount of money off one stump as you do on two, then I'm ahead because I don't have the travel expense.

The easy way to see if this would work would be to give a grind only/leave mulch estimate and then a second estimate to remove mulch. This works very well for us.
```
 
its still the same, we are grinding and cleaning up at 100 hr. and your saying you grind for an hour at $100 and then cleanup at $100 hr. its still the same per hour unless you have a second person that starts after you have ground the first stump and they start cleanining up at $100 per hour. which I might add: a person could fill a 5 yard dump with grindings in a hour with the right equipment which would be a whole lot of stumps.


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## arbor pro (May 15, 2008)

If you're a big stump grinding business and grinding is all you do then the most efficient way to add cleanup to your operation is to have a seperate cleanup crew follow behind the grinding crew. This means an additional trip to the site which cost more in fuel and travel time; however, it allows your grinder to move on to another job and stay busy with little down time. 
The cleanup crew should be able to make as much or more in cleanup and dirt fill as the grinding crew. The investment for a dump truck, trailer and small skidsteer should be about the same as that for a pickup pulling a big towable grinder.

The exception to the above advice is if you are a one-man operation in which I usually find it more efficient to do the cleanup right after grinding the stump unless I have numerous ones to cleanup in close vicinity to each other - then I will do all the grinding first and return later to clean them all up and fill them.

Now, if you're using a self-propelled or hand-held (alpine or the like) grinder, it would probably be more efficient to do your cleanup right after you grind the stump by pulling both your grinder and a mini skid on the same trailer behind a dump truck like I do (or pitch it on by hand). JMO but, that setup works very well for me. 

Everyone keeps talking about lean times and how hard it is to get work these days yet, most everyone on this site complains about cleanup and doesn't want to even offer it as a service. Unless you physically are unable to run a rake, the equipment is available to do the work for you so, why not offer it so long as the price is profitable for your business...?


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## bombdude (May 15, 2008)

Well, having started the thread, it seems that my idea of using a blower isn't that great. Arbor Pro, I like your set up. I'm a believer in being a one trip system & having everything at the site with me.

I've got a 352 w/grader blade. 90% of my jobs I grade them flat & dress them with a rake. The others say they'll move them themselves to use a mulch, or they may have a tractor & level/scoop on their on. I even have a landscape lady that I work for from time to time that is adamant that I leave them for her to remove. She doesn't want to mix shavings from different species b/c of different decomp rates.

I also agree that removing is worth as much to me as the grinding. It's a pain. Most of the people that I deal with don't want to pay for it. I guess my thoughts about the blower were that it would "loosen" them & get them outta the hole, & then "scoop up" more than "dig out". And, truth be known, my hand blower is in need of help, & I wanted to justify replacing it with a "mack daddy" blower.

Thanks for the input guys. Lots of interesting discussion.


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## custom8726 (May 15, 2008)

I always right up the estimate with or without removal of grinds. most people opt for the removal of the grinds but for the ones that choose to keep them we grind and then rake everything back into the hole and mound up the remains on top. I charge as much to clean up as I do to grind so its worth the effort to me. I will bring in soil and rake it to grade and seed if they inquire about the service but I do not offer.


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## Stump Easy (May 18, 2008)

I have read this discussion with interest. I am new to arboristsite.com, and I think the only member from South Africa(?). I have a Vermeer SC252 and a Bobcat SG60 on a S185H skid steer. I agreed to remove the shavings on one of the first stumps I cut, a Camphor (Eucalyptus ?) with a ground level diameter of about 2.5 m (seven plus feet) which took me 3 days with my Vermeer, and about the same time to remove the shavings. Never again. Now I convince the client about the mulching value of shavings and leave it to them. If they really need to get rid of them I refer them to a guy that does garden refuse clean ups. It has never cost me a job.


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## custom8726 (May 18, 2008)

Stump Easy said:


> I have read this discussion with interest. I am new to arboristsite.com, and I think the only member from South Africa(?). I have a Vermeer SC252 and a Bobcat SG60 on a S185H skid steer. I agreed to remove the shavings on one of the first stumps I cut, a Camphor (Eucalyptus ?) with a ground level diameter of about 2.5 m (seven plus feet) which took me 3 days with my Vermeer, and about the same time to remove the shavings. Never again. Now I convince the client about the mulching value of shavings and leave it to them. If they really need to get rid of them I refer them to a guy that does garden refuse clean ups. It has never cost me a job.



South Africa huh, Is there enough tree work to keep a crew working full time over there? Just curious, I am nieve to anything that goes on over there besides some hunting adventures I read about.


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## custom8726 (May 18, 2008)

Oh yeah, Welcome!!


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## gr8scott72 (May 18, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> South Africa huh, Is there enough tree work to keep a crew working full time over there? Just curious, I am nieve to anything that goes on over there besides some hunting adventures I read about.



Must be. 7' diameter stump. Bigger than anything I've done so far.


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## custom8726 (May 18, 2008)

gr8scott72 said:


> Must be. 7' diameter stump. Bigger than anything I've done so far.



I have done quite a few that big with my big rayco with the deutze diesel. It will grind a stump that big in less then a hour no sweat, The cleanup on the other hand is another story all together. I would not ever do a stump half that size with a 252 though. Good machine but not for big stumps IMHO...


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## Stump Easy (May 18, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> South Africa huh, Is there enough tree work to keep a crew working full time over there? Just curious, I am nieve to anything that goes on over there besides some hunting adventures I read about.



I'm busy with stumps 3/4 days a week. The competition here uses tractor PTO driven grinders (www.bellaco.co.za if you're interested) and couldnt get in for that stump, so my the client had no choice. Mostly I'm doing stumps around 300mm to 1m (12'' - 3') diameter. Not enough work for a big (70 hp) grinder though hence the Bobcat which can do other work when there are no stumps ...


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## custom8726 (May 18, 2008)

Stump Easy said:


> I'm busy with stumps 3/4 days a week. The competition here uses tractor PTO driven grinders (www.bellaco.co.za if you're interested) and couldnt get in for that stump, so my the client had no choice. Mostly I'm doing stumps around 300mm to 1m (12'' - 3') diameter. Not enough work for a big (70 hp) grinder though hence the Bobcat which can do other work when there are no stumps ...



Yup, I hear ya on the access issue. We have a carlton 2500 portable that will fit between a 36" gate but I still do not think I would tackle a stump 7' in diameter unless the home owner was willing to shell out some serious cash. When you say 3/4 days a week does that mean most of the week? or 3/4 of 1 day a week?


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## Stump Easy (May 19, 2008)

Usually 3 or 4 days of the week.


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## bombdude (May 19, 2008)

Welcome Stump Easy. 

I've got a 352 which gives me good access capability, but still has power to get the job done somewhat faster. I've done several 8 footers which takes me about 3 hours. Did an 11 footer about a month ago that was just over 4 hours.

But, we don't have any eucalyptus trees around here. My big ones were all oak. Is eucalyptus harder than other trees??


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## MOE (May 23, 2008)

I've been grinding for several years on as a sideline to my full time job. Most of the people who hire me are the do it yourself types that cut their own trees down but don't have a stump grinder. Nearly all of them prefer to do thier own cleanup. the amount of buisness I lose because I don't clean up is maybe a couple of jobs a year. This is fine with me because I stay busy enough considering I work a full time job as well. Here is a 7' cottonwood that We did clean up mainly because we had to in order to have room to work.


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## gr8scott72 (May 23, 2008)

MOE said:


> I've been grinding for several years on as a sideline to my full time job. Most of the people who hire me are the do it yourself types that cut their own trees down but don't have a stump grinder. Nearly all of them prefer to do thier own cleanup. the amount of buisness I lose because I don't clean up is maybe a couple of jobs a year. This is fine with me because I stay busy enough considering I work a full time job as well. Here is a 7' cottonwood that We did clean up mainly because we had to in order to have room to work.



That's a huge tree.

It's funny that every time I see someone using a grinder with a pull-out control panel/shield, he is leaning around the side of the panel instead of looking thru it.


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## arbor pro (May 23, 2008)

gr8scott72 said:


> That's a huge tree.
> 
> It's funny that every time I see someone using a grinder with a pull-out control panel/shield, he is leaning around the side of the panel instead of looking thru it.



Good point. The shield on my bid grinder is always fogged up or dirty so I never look through it. It seems to me that a remote would be the only way to go if I ever get around to upgrading the old beast.

Looking at the photos posted by MOE, it reminds me of a 7' dbh cottonwood that I cut down three years ago. I kept dulling chains when trying to get cut through the base of the trunk. I knew there was some decay at the base but, I'm talking about dulling one chain after another when I got to the center of the tree. Finally, I got it pulled over with my crane and was a bit surprised to find an 18" boulder right smack dab in the middle of the 10' diameter stump! The tree must have grown right around it when it was much younger. You'd never have known when looking at the full-grown trunk - no sign of a cavity or anything - just a big big rock right in the middle!

When I told the homeowner the price just went up for grinding the stump, he through a fit and told me the rock wasn't HIS problem...

as if it was MINE! Some people...


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## ropensaddle (May 23, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> Good point. The shield on my bid grinder is always fogged up or dirty so I never look through it. It seems to me that a remote would be the only way to go if I ever get around to upgrading the old beast.
> 
> Looking at the photos posted by MOE, it reminds me of a 7' dbh cottonwood that I cut down three years ago. I kept dulling chains when trying to get cut through the base of the trunk. I knew there was some decay at the base but, I'm talking about dulling one chain after another when I got to the center of the tree. Finally, I got it pulled over with my crane and was a bit surprised to find an 18" boulder right smack dab in the middle of the 10' diameter stump! The tree must have grown right around it when it was much younger. You'd never have known when looking at the full-grown trunk - no sign of a cavity or anything - just a big big rock right in the middle!
> 
> ...



Sorry to inform ya it is your problem I have them all the time how do you change price in the middle? I don't think I would if I could, I will accept more if they see my hardship and I sometimes point it out but never try to say more money, they already have budgeted to pay your price. Of course all we have is rock here and stumps should be much higher priced but reality stinks in this respect!


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## MOE (May 23, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> Sorry to inform ya it is your problem I have them all the time how do you change price in the middle? I don't think I would if I could, I will accept more if they see my hardship and I sometimes point it out but never try to say more money, they already have budgeted to pay your price. Of course all we have is rock here and stumps should be much higher priced but reality stinks in this respect!



I have too agree, I work in rock and old fence post country. Years ago, farmers used trees as fence posts and piled field rock around the base just to get it them out of the way. I chip a lot of teeth but I consider it part of the buisness in the area I work. I try to charge to allow for it. Most home owners don't know whats in the stump. I don't think it's fair to put it on them to pay more. If I did in this area, word of mouth would kill my buisness in short order.


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## gr8scott72 (May 23, 2008)

arbor pro said:


> Good point. The shield on my bid grinder is always fogged up or dirty so I never look through it. It seems to me that a remote would be the only way to go if I ever get around to upgrading the old beast.



I actually got to use a big Vermeer tow-behind before I bought my Carlton and found myself looking around the shield also. What I think is ironic is that the Rayco guys (since you can't get a remote on a Rayco) all talk bad about the remote saying that it's not as safe as the shield and yet they end up looking around the shield standing in the worst possible place to do so.

I like my remote!!


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## custom8726 (May 23, 2008)

gr8scott72 said:


> I actually got to use a big Vermeer tow-behind before I bought my Carlton and found myself looking around the shield also. What I think is ironic is that the Rayco guys (since you can't get a remote on a Rayco) all talk bad about the remote saying that it's not as safe as the shield and yet they end up looking around the shield standing in the worst possible place to do so.
> 
> I like my remote!!



I have a rayco and a carlton and they both have there pros and cons but I get hit with far less flying debre running the rayco behind the shield then the carlton.


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## gr8scott72 (May 23, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> I have a rayco and a carlton and they both have there pros and cons but I get hit with far less flying debre running the rayco behind the shield then the carlton.



Not if you're peaking around the corner of the shield.


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## custom8726 (May 23, 2008)

gr8scott72 said:


> Not if you're peaking around the corner of the shield.



No need to with mine. The carlton gets used more because of accessability issues but when we can use the big rayco its great standing behind that big piece of plexi glass not getting hit with a thing. Not bashing the carltons I think they are one of the best stump grinders made.


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## Oly's Stump (May 24, 2008)

I peer around the shield of my Rayco also because you cannot see a thing through those shields. Its easier also to hear if your starting to cut into something bad likes big rocks, pipes, ect. I wear the helmet, muffs, and screen face shield. My Carlton remote machine is nice and keeps you out of all the dirt and dust. No swing out control panel gives you tighter access to stumps. I still don't understand why the Rayco people have not went to a remote machine. They make a good machine (except for their trailers) but I am sticking with remote machines from now on.


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