# seeking search advice for a C&D chipper...



## joninatree (Mar 19, 2011)

I've been trolling around the forums this evening for a while and think I've come to the conclusion that a chuck and duck chipper is the best first chipper for me...based on: 1) simplicity, 2) cost and 3) relative light weight.

My questions are:

If I decide that I'd like to buy a used one within, perhaps 2.5 weeks or less, how would you go about searching for one (and what search terms/keyboards should I be aware of)?

I'm using craiglook.com to search multiple craiglist cities. I'm using the terms whisper, altec and asplundh....is an altec whisper the same thing as an asplundh whisper chipper?

For reliability-sake, my inclination is to go with a diesel or the Ford Inline 6 cylinder (that folks seem to praise on here). 

If I'm wanting "more" chippability, should I stick to a 16" as opposed to 12" drum size? 

Any brands/models you guys reccomend (or to avoid)? 

Thinking that I'll run "wanted" ads in craigslist and local newspaper and keep my eyes on craigs, equipment trader and perhaps ebay...any other sites or sources you think it wise to use in my search? 

Thanks in advance...looking forward to being on these forums more often...everytime I periodically venture on here, I'm amazed at how much great knowledge and discussions there are to be found. 

Jon


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## joninatree (Mar 19, 2011)

Also, since these chippers seem to be relatively quite inexpensive, I'd rather pay a little more and get one likely be as little hassle as possible to keep running. So, should I stick to a certain hour-count max or perhaps model year limit? 

Is the Mitts and Merrill the only chuck and duck with a sideways rotating chute?

Any links to good discussions to the best model chuck and ducks would also be greatly appreciated, particularly since I'm not familiar with all of them and thus far have been using limited search terms.


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## joninatree (Mar 19, 2011)

Do chuck and ducks usually attach by way of a Pintle-style hitch or ball-hitch? Or is it likely to vary? just wondering if I should buy a Pintle hitch or save the $100 if I'll likely be able to. 

Also, I want to be using the forum appropriately, so please let me know if I have asked too many questions for a single thread. 

Jon


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## joninatree (Mar 26, 2011)

ok, so I've been searching for a week or so now and have come across a few c n d's and a few mitts and merrills (karl kummerling's rep stated they shouldn't be considered c n d's because of their staggered tooth pattern and, perhaps therefore slower feed rate). So far it seems that there are far more gassers available (ford inline 6 300 being the most common, if not the only one I've encountered thus far) than diesels (the only one being a late 90's model M&M on consignment for 9K at karl kummerling). Seems also that the 12" size is far more common than the 16" drum size (is that measurement the diameter or width of the drum, or knives?). Is it possible to know the drum size by the knife count, in case I happen to be talking to any particularly "thick" sellers (not long ago I went out to look at what had been "measured" to be a 32 foot ladder for sale ended up being a 24 foot ladder!). 

Wondering if for commercial tree care (both trimming and a high proportion of removals too), I should be strict in my search criteria and only stick with 16" machines (?). The Karl Kummerling rep, likely speaking only for Mitts and Merrill chippers, stated that both the 12" and 16" machines will both accept 6-8" material, albeit the larger at a faster rate. Is the same characteristic (same diameter material capacity but different chip speed rates) true of other chuck and duck's? 

Anyone got any video footage of Mitts and Merrill chippers; I couldn't find any youtube footage for that brand? Alternatively, does anyone here know of anyone operating near southeast Tennessee who currently has and/or uses a C & D (or Mitts) chipper?


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## fearofpavement (Mar 27, 2011)

Greetings,
I have a 12 inch Altec C&D chipper and thus can give a few words of advice.

First, these chippers are typically at the bottom of the food chain cost wise but are relatively simple and easy to maintain. They consist of an engine and dry clutch, a belt system and a drum that has chipper knives in it. On many the chute is fixed which is fine if you are chipping into a truck but not so great if you want to shoot stuff into a pile on site or disperse it into the woods. That requires unhitching the unit and manually turning it. And then of course hitching it back up. Most of these have an impeller fan to help spew out the chips although I have seen some that don't. The Ford 300-6 is notorious for being a long life, high torque, simple engine and I wish I had one on mine. I have a four cylinder engine that looks like what would be on a 1975 Pinto or Mustang II. It works well enough but limits what I can feed it. The chipper can physically fit larger wood than what it will chip unless it is very short. Short pieces tend to get spit out at you. "duck"

If you are in Tennessee, you will likely encounter a lot of pine take downs. These drum chippers work great on pine. On a typical 12" dbh Loblolly, I can chip all the branches and about half of the mast. The rest I throw in the truck. Also, pine branches don't beat the bejeebers out of you like hardwood does.

Safety wise, I don't feel like the C&D chippers are any more dangerous to operate than a feed roller version. Either one of them can eat you if careless. When dealing with wads of bramble, honeysuckle and muscadine, I pay a lot of attention as to where the vines go before I feed one end into the hopper. I usually throw a wad on the feed table and send them in with the next branch.

Sharp and properly adjusted knives are the key to effectiveness. they stay sharp a long time if you are careful what you feed it. ie, don't rake the ground and throw that in, a rock will cost you.

The search parameters you are using would be pretty good. Drum chipper is the one most likely to return a C&D chipper. Regarding Asplundh and Altec they are now the same I think and their chippers in the past were pretty similar. Parts and service info are still available. Altec is several companies and it took me a while to get the right division for the vintage chipper I have. 

Regarding a purchase, Things to look for would be the integrity of the frame, tires good? Engine and cooling system in good condition? any noise or detectable looseness in drum bearings? chipper knives in good condition? lights work? Gauges work? clutch doesn't slip, etc etc. Basically, if you aren't a mechanic, any automotive mechanic should be able to assess one of these. All the components can be remedied (except maybe a twisted frame) so it basically depends on what it will cost to put it in good repair. A more expensive unit in excellent condition may actually cost less than buying a beater and investing a lot to get it usable. Make sure you see it chip some wood. Bring some if you need to. Make it clear to the seller you need to see it operate. If they can't accommodate that, maybe better skip that one. (would you buy a car without test driving it?)

Regarding the pintle ring hitch. Most of these have them but you can put any kind of coupler you want on them. I intend to remove my pintle and set it up with a two inch ball coupler so more of my fleet can tow it.

Thus far, I have never had to collect the chips and take them off site but when that happens, I have a dump trailer I will set up for that purpose, I don't have a chip truck.

It is amazing what these things do to wood in about one second per large branch. Eye protection is a must and I don't know how they ever got called a Whisper Chipper but they are very loud and ear plugs with muffs over them are pretty important. Muffs protect your ears from whipping too.

Find a good one and enjoy. the price range is typically $1000 to $3000 depending.


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## joninatree (Mar 27, 2011)

*Thank you FearofPavement for your informative & helpful reply....*

I probably let a good one go (sold to someone else) this morning but not sweating it since it was way out of town and I'd rather be patient and look at/run one in person before buying. I'm still really liking the idea of a Mitts and Merrill with their rotating chute and supposedely better?/slower cutting action. The only one I've found not being sold by Karl Kummerling is a 12" one that sounds to be in good condition but he indicates an unwillingness to take less than 4K given an engine rebuild and other work that he's put into it. The other two Mitts chippers are being sold on consignment (and "as is") by Karl Kummerling and are 5K (12") and 9K (16" diesel), but am thinking at those prices I'd be better off ponying up even more and getting a good 12-15" hydraulic fed system that could eat even bigger stuff...and I'd ideally like to not have to sink more than 3-4K into a "starter chipper", as I'd like to purchase another 3/4 ton truck soon to be able to drag my 16' trailer around for the bigger material (and more generally as a back-up rig). Great advice to on using "drum chipper" as a search term, don't know why I didn't think of that. 

Questions still remaining are: 
- Would I be wise to be patient (up to 6 weeks or so) and hold out for a 16" drum vs. a 12" drum, even if it costs 1K or so more? 
- Is the 12 vs 16 measurment the width across drum or the diameter through the drum?
- I live and operate out of my house and in a residential area and need to keep as low a profile as possible, does anyone know the lowest height level of any of these style chippers? I think my garage doors open to 81"-ish high.
- I've ruled out the Chipmore brand since I understand they've been out of business for quite a while which could make parts harder to come by. Are woodchuck parts easier to come by? How do the wood chuck c n d's stack up against the Altec/Asplundh and Mitts C n D's?

Thanks again! Jon


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## SDiver40 (Mar 27, 2011)

I havent used the C&D style chippers. I dont really care for them too much. Nothing personal other than I dont like to get whipped with limbs. 
I'm also new to the chipper stuff too. I bought a wood/chuck a while back and so far it has worked pretty well. Thanks to some help here on the forum, I found out that wood/chuck was purchased by Altec. They are located in Shelby NC. and after talking with them it seems the W/C chipper parts are not a problem to obtain. I looked at a C&D chipper up near Madison NC. It seemed to run pretty well and it chipped well. Not sure but I think it might have been a 8in or maybe a 12in? Not really sure. After the old guy tried to show me how well it chipped and the limb whipped him really well. He said I could have it for $1500.00 if I would get it off his property! LOL IF your interested in calling him let me know i'll find his number. I do know it was the ford 6 cylinder gas engine.
Tom


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## fearofpavement (Mar 27, 2011)

Regarding the 12 and 16" being the diameter or width of the drum, that is a good question and I'm not sure but I think it is the diameter. 

Regarding the capacity of the chipper, I think the engine power would be a bigger factor. As I stated previously, my 12" would handle larger material with a bigger engine.

I don't think any chipper will fit into a standard garage unless you removed the chute. I could see doing this for maintenance purposes but not for routine parking.

Regarding the neighbors, a bone thrown their way does wonders for creating good will. See a branch down in their yard? Go take care of it for them. Not that you want to work for free but as a neighborly thing cleaning up storm damage, etc. Maybe offer to bring them a load of chips. They may not want any but just the fact you offered them may let them view your chipper with more affection.

I would wait for the right piece of equipment. this stuff is sold all the time so be patient and get what you want for the price you are willing to pay. How much do you think you can make with a chipper? If you can double your production, then spend extra if needed and get one sooner. If it is uncertain it will pay for itself in a short time span then buying one at a bargain will ensure you can sell it again if it isn't needed or you upgrade. It is important that you make a decision regarding what you want or will settle for and then ignore anything outside those parameters. Be willing to travel a few hundred miles for the right piece. I did and am happy with my purchase. (allow travel costs as part of the machine acquisition price) I think $4000 is too much for a C&D chipper. A 300-6 engine can probably be picked up used for $500 so a rebuilt one wouldn't account for the high price. This may be a case of he bought a junker and fixed it up and now wants his money back. Too bad. I know of people that spend $20,000 restoring a vintage car that will never be worth more than $12,000. There is a market cap on this type of equipment and if you invest more than that, hopefully it will get paid back in good service but don't expect to recover it in a sale. Hope your search goes well.


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## fearofpavement (Mar 28, 2011)

May want to check this one out.
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/bfs/2258140788.html


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## fearofpavement (Mar 28, 2011)

Try the following searches
Wood chipper
Brush chipper
drum chipper


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## tractordan (Mar 29, 2011)

At work we have an asplundh JEX 16" chuck and duck. it is a mid 70's vintage. it has a ford 330 for a power unit. the drum is 16" in length (cutter blades are 16" long) but the drum is only about 12" in diameter or so. even though it's a 16" it will only chip up to about 8" or 9" diameter trees. that is the same with the 12" asplundh only 8 or 9" trees (we chip all soft wood)

we just had to replace the drum bearings... fairly big job (the drum is over 300 lbs) and the bearings run about 260.00 each. the drive belts were around 50.00 each (times 4). so if your looking for a used one I would check these things. we had to machine a new in feed plate and do some looking to find the parts we needed.

our unit has no in feed rollers. you chuck the brush right into the cutter drum..... which runs about 9380 feet per minute (106 mph). kinda scary..... it demands respect and you only make one mistake with it.... that's why it was given to us ... the other guys insurance wouldn't cover him with that unit because it has no safety/ power feed on it. we only chip for a few hours at a time and quit when we get tired.... you gotta be sharp when using this machine

on another note, this machine will fill a 12 yard dump full in about 35 minutes and we have never plugged the shoot. 

hope this is helpful. if you search on arborist site you can find a lot more info on these units. it's where I found the info I needed.


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## joninatree (Apr 7, 2011)

*Getting close....*

Thanks all for the informative posts. And thanks again F.O.P for your time on the phone last night discussing chippers. 

While I don't have any personal experience with either a Whisper-style chuck and duck or a Mitts and Merrill-style drum chipper, I've decided that I'm intrigued enough by the purported plusses of the M&M chippers to feel like I should narrow my search to just them. Despite the on average slightly higher cost per machine of any given vintage (perhaps 3K versus 2K on similar asplundh or altec), I'm basing my decision to buy an M&M based on 1 and 2) supposed slower/steadier feed rate and side-swiveling chute, 3) ability to fit in my garage without need to detach chute. 

My top choice is an 86' M&M 16" with torque converter (as opposed to clutch). needs paint and fresh knives. From seller when I asked him by email to recap what he'd told me on the phone about the partial rebuid he had to do: "A friend had overfilled the air filter with oil which aspirated through the carb which washed down the cylinders. As the head needed to be pulled to dry the cylinders I decided to have the top end rebuilt. The head was machined, valves ground, and new valve seats and guides installed. At the same time I had the carb rebuilt. This was done in October of 2008, the chipper went into the shop on monday after our hurricane, and I bought another chipper two days later as the shop time was two weeks and we were buried with storm damage." 
He was firm on 3K but has since agreed to $2880 (which includes him taking care of a "minor" needed weld on part of the chute...don't ask me how i came to that figure, but he politely but firmly rejected my first offer of $2575). 

I currently have plans to drive 6 hours sunday nite to look at it...I ordered new knives and am having them sent there, which should arrive tomorrow so that i can see how it cuts with fresh edges. I was talking to my neighbor today who said that I should be using some kind of online forum (which I informed him I was already doing)...and he then had the idea, which was kind of obvious/duh but seemed brilliant to me at the moment of enlightenment, that I should ask to see if there was someone in the online community in that area who I could get to look at for me before committing to long trip myself. 

That said: Anyone in or near Cincinatti who is familiar with M&M chippers (or c & d's in general) willing to go look at it tommorow, Saturday or Sunday? I know that I'm new here and don't have the social capital to simply ask such a favor...so I'm willing to offer to mail a check for $75 if someone with sufficient knowledge of the fundamentals of these machines is willing to take an hour of so of their time to go over a give it a good little tire kicking (and quick brush stuffing) on my behalf. Any takers? or perhaps more likely the question (given the short time window) is which member/s on here should I PM this reqest/offer to? 

Thanks again all! Jon


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## joninatree (Apr 7, 2011)

View attachment 179180
View attachment 179181


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## joninatree (Apr 7, 2011)

*pics*

first time trying to attach pics...there's actually 2 of them there.


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## joninatree (Apr 8, 2011)

Correction: it's technically in Loveland, OH...and new knives should be arriving there by mail today.


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## ericknight (Apr 12, 2011)

Here is one in Huron, Ohio. Mitts & Merrill Wood Chipper (2086-37) - GovDeals.com


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## Charles Ford (Apr 16, 2011)

*linddig chipper*

I bought a 78 lindig chipper, it's hard to explain but in short it's a trailer with a dumping chipper box and chipper, it dumps to the side when you open the door, it has an eletric pump hydrloic cyliders, it has a 330 ford that just messed up, so I'm putting a motor, clucth, into it, is nice that it has a dump box on the trailer so I can un hook my 2500 truck to pull tree's or go to lunch, I can't find to much info about them, I need a bell housing shaft, just thought I'd let you know about mine, I've never seen another one like it, other brands but not like it, most people are in shock when I pull up to do the job, it loves pine and you get a real work out on dead wood, if anyone know anything about them let me know.??
Chas


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## allamerican (Aug 10, 2012)

*Seeking advice on mitts and merrill chipper I recently purchased*

Hows it goin. Hopefully this is relative to what you two have been talking about. Found an awesome Mitts and merrill chipper, gotta be mid 70's. I'll post a picture soon enough. The chipper I purchased doesn not have the rotating chute on it. I have been looking for a good truck I can shoot the chips into. Any suggestions as to what kind of truck I should buy?


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## fearofpavement (Aug 17, 2012)

allamerican said:


> Hows it goin. Hopefully this is relative to what you two have been talking about. Found an awesome Mitts and merrill chipper, gotta be mid 70's. I'll post a picture soon enough. The chipper I purchased doesn not have the rotating chute on it. I have been looking for a good truck I can shoot the chips into. Any suggestions as to what kind of truck I should buy?



Well, the type of truck would depend on what you plan to do with it. How much stuff do you expect to be chipping at time? ie, are you a tree service and would typically be chipping brush from one or two trees at a time or do you clear lots and would fill a truck multiple times?

A pick-up truck with a homemade wooden box built on the back but it is a hassle unloading so you probably want something that dumps. I use a dump trailer but then it takes two vehicles to get to the job site. One for the chipper and one for the trailer. I don't do that much of it so it works for me. Often I just take the dump trailer and put the brush and rounds in a single load (if it's just one tree) and then I sort it out when I get home.

The chuck and duck chippers work great on pine which is a lot of what we chip here. I have an old Altec and it does what I need for less than $3000. I do wish I could change the angle of the chute though.


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## allamerican (Aug 20, 2012)

fearofpavement said:


> Well, the type of truck would depend on what you plan to do with it. How much stuff do you expect to be chipping at time? ie, are you a tree service and would typically be chipping brush from one or two trees at a time or do you clear lots and would fill a truck multiple times?
> 
> A pick-up truck with a homemade wooden box built on the back but it is a hassle unloading so you probably want something that dumps. I use a dump trailer but then it takes two vehicles to get to the job site. One for the chipper and one for the trailer. I don't do that much of it so it works for me. Often I just take the dump trailer and put the brush and rounds in a single load (if it's just one tree) and then I sort it out when I get home.
> 
> The chuck and duck chippers work great on pine which is a lot of what we chip here. I have an old Altec and it does what I need for less than $3000. I do wish I could change the angle of the chute though.



A pick up with a homemade box on it does not look super professional. Some look good. Im not a huge tree service. At most a few trees at a time. I do not clear lots. A dump truck would be great an older chip truck would even be better. Thanks.


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## BDChainsaw (Sep 3, 2012)

I have a Mitts & Merrill K-12 gas chipper. I've done lots of research and repairs on mine. If I can help you please contact me. By the way K-12 or K-16 refers to the drum width. The drum on these machines is made of multiple identical slabs of steel indexed to diferent positions. 3 cutters per slab. They are pressed when heated on a keyed and cross pinned shaft. The K-12 has 3 slabs (9 cutters) aproximately 4 inches thick. The K-16 has 4 (12 cutters). My K-12 has a Ford in line 6 gas engine. It is the most comon size and modle to my knowledge. I have seen 4 cylinders (early ones used the NAA Ford tractor engine) I-6 and V-8. Seems they used Ford engines until deisil took over. They are a desired unit because the staggered drum design causes far less vibration. Models with the torq converter are rare due to that being an up grade. So a K-16 with V-8 and torq converter would have been a top dog delux modle back in the day. Hope this helps.


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## allamerican (Sep 4, 2012)

Thanks! I will contact you. So I have a k-12, with the ford 300. Im changing out cutters-knives. I need 9 as you have stated. Correct? Is it difficult to change them out? I've never opened chipper up yet to see cutters. It does not seem that difficult. Thanks again


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