# Cutting a Cat Face



## smokechase II (Mar 14, 2008)

Just some photos of a hazard tree being cut.

Here is the tree top and the cat face.


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 14, 2008)

*Face Cut*

Essentially the face was mostly completed by fire.
(The removal of a support or any cut in a tree like this could start its fall. Caution.)

Fire is what makes a good cat face a good cat face.

Does anyone know why it got its name?


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 14, 2008)

*Finale*

Here is the back cut.

(Note the face cuts on both sides. Give the hinge something in the way of a specific point.)

**************

Think of this as the West Coast version of Open Face cutting.

**************

Then the stump falls apart. You can't see it directly here but the weight of this thing split out the offside holding wood area.


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 14, 2008)

*Not a cat face*

First photo is of a tree where the cutter didn't keep cutting to match his face.

That changes either the depth of the face or the direction.

****************

The powerpoint slides also illustrates this.


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 14, 2008)

*Go long*

Matching cuts is best.

Open face cutting is easier to match as the common technique is to make the long cut first, and then the shorter match cut is easier. So its consideration for smaller diameters is a thought.
However, several other weaknesses of the Open Face exclude it from larger diameters.

********************

Cutting short is a mistake. One has to restart and possibly remake the entire second cut. This places the cutter in the danger zone longer. Wastes time. Risks a Dutchman tendency.

*********************

Make your second cut to match or go slightly long.

STOP when your bar is vertically above the termination of the flat part of the face on either side.

Then pop it out. This leaves a mini block face. This can have consequences directionally if in green wood, (the block face is not static like a Conventional - Humboldt - Birds Mouth faces), and that flexibility, (if your wood is flexible and strong) may allow for a miss.
Mostly, that is not likely and is somewhat rare to achieve.

********************

This pic shows a total recut and DON'T SET UP TO DO THAT !
Think, plan, cut a smidge long rather than short.

Another trick is to look early or have an off side pard who stops you early on. I don't care how simple this concept is, they have to be said.
One may also very slightly tweak the bar early on in the second cut to avoid a Dutchman.


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 14, 2008)

*Rotten Wood*

Here is a snag where the stump came apart as it went over.

One thought is to cut high on any high risk tree period. Quicker escape etc.

But adjusting your cutting height you may be able to find more solid wood.
(I certainly can't say that for sure here, can I?)

*************************

The second photo was of the back cut being completed. Note also how the saw chips/(dust from rotten dead wood) can be distracting and if cutting standing there is greater separation between chips and your face than this posture here.


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 14, 2008)

*Vertical awareness*

The Humboldt part of the face takes away from vertical awareness.

Posture and concentration.

On hazard trees the necessity of looking up is obvious.
Again on the second pic note how a higher cutting height would have suited the sawyer better.


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 14, 2008)

*Cat Faces on the uphill side*

A quick side bar.

Fire burning up a slope will wrap around a tree.

The heat concentrates on the uphill side as the flames come together again.

Cat Faces are usually on the uphill side, (see photos in the above post).

Think about that when traveling through the woods that just burned.

What you can't see can get you.


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 14, 2008)

*Perfect cut*

The Professional certifier here is Mr. Jim DeMastus.

He started cutting in 1952 on two man saws.
He still cuts on fires and expects to again this year at age 73.

With his brother he won the Albany Carnival five times on a cross cut he made. They cut 30 inch Doug Fir. That is the gold standard in that world. One other team won four times and another three. They were the best.

The tree here was cut by Dirk S and it was the best I've ever seen at one of these Certs. 
(I've been certified by Roy Booth Sr., Richard {AS censor will not let me write his name} Kelly, John Pullman, Doug Dent, Gary Robinson and Jim DeMastus from the every two year sessions from 1978 to now.)


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 14, 2008)

*Enough for now*

Let 'er rip fellas.


----------



## Zodiac45 (Mar 14, 2008)

Very nice post SC,

Thanks for taking the time too get the great pix and detail the felling out for others too see. You're a credit too the site and help make it the fantastic source of info that it is.  

Not sure why the cat face was named a cat face? I've seem cat faces like your's caused by fire, and other's where the bark was removed due too rubs or knockoffs. Also I've seen people refer to a cat face that was an over growth of a scar tissue or knot. But I don't know why they were named?


----------



## czar800 (Mar 14, 2008)

Thanks SC,

For taking the time to post, Its post like yours that's makes AS a Great site and helps guys make smart decisions when cutting. You learn real fast who to respect around hear, again get thread.


----------



## dimanager (Mar 14, 2008)

Great pics smoke. I have a hickory that is rotted out like the fire damaged ones and I was not 100% sure how to get at it. Now I have a better idea.

Thanks, Sam


----------



## splittah (Mar 14, 2008)

It's great that you took the time.. this is really good info.


----------



## Crawfish (Mar 14, 2008)

Thanks SC

Details and Pics.....just doesn't get any better


----------



## Jacob J. (Mar 14, 2008)

I'm guessing these are Forest Service guys getting their falling certs? I'm putting on a C class for the BLM in Susanville in May.


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 14, 2008)

*Affirm*

I realize that taking photos can be distracting to the point of dangerous.

If you ever get the chance, do so and send 'em to Winston up at Wind River.
He may be able to use them.

Who is going to be the Pro?


----------



## Jacob J. (Mar 15, 2008)

Not sure yet, I have a couple guys in mind but that's up to the fire staff at the zone office. I'd be happy to send pics to anyone at Wind River or the PNW regional office, no problem.


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 15, 2008)

*A thought*

If I were magically in charge, one thing I'd do is rotate the pro cutters into different areas every two years. Maybe a three Forest/District area for the rotation.

1) Any of us can learn a lot from *each* of these guys, spread the knowledge around.
2) An occasional Pro caters too well to the sucking up syndrome. The Lead Certifier may be a using a more consistent standard if he knows someone who takes his job seriously is coming by next year.

*************************

John Pollman went down to R-3 a few years back and ended up dropping several folks from C to A. He is one of the great cutters I have had the privilege of seeing and as a teacher/cutter combination I believe him to be the best.

*************************

Usually the best way to document anything is with photos. However, the nervousness factor can be huge for someone doing their first or second cert.


----------



## Metals406 (Mar 15, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> If I were magically in charge, one thing I'd do is rotate the pro cutters into different areas every two years. Maybe a three Forest/District area for the rotation.
> 
> 1) Any of us can learn a lot from *each* of these guys, spread the knowledge around.
> 2) An occasional Pro caters too well to the sucking up syndrome. The Lead Certifier may be a using a more consistent standard if he knows someone who takes his job seriously is coming by next year.
> ...



Great post! It's been some years ago now, but it seems to me--the fallers on our units weren't allowed to use the Humboldt, and had to use traditional only. I can't remember off hand why. . . . But when the foresters showed up, and started looking at stumps--it better be a traditional notch.

I've never really used the Humboldt much myself, and an open-face a couple times. . . . But I don't fall green stuff anymore either. Strictly dead standing for me. 

I have seen local power line crews use the humboldt to clear corridor, so maybe it was just a Plum Creek thing?


----------



## slowp (Mar 15, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> If I were magically in charge, one thing I'd do is rotate the pro cutters into different areas every two years. Maybe a three Forest/District area for the rotation.
> 
> 1) Any of us can learn a lot from *each* of these guys, spread the knowledge around.
> 2) An occasional Pro caters too well to the sucking up syndrome. The Lead Certifier may be a using a more consistent standard if he knows someone who takes his job seriously is coming by next year.
> ...



That would be Pollman with an O. Neat guy, sells insurance now because he got hurt in an auto wreck. He cuts the stuff around here that we won't touch.


----------



## smokechase II (Mar 15, 2008)

*Stand Corrected*

I'll spell Pollman correctly from now on.
Funny that a guy who cut that much got hurt in a car accident.
Sounds like modern fire fighter stats.

**************************

*"the fallers on our units weren't allowed to use the Humboldt, and had to use traditional only. I can't remember off hand why."*

I think you should not only be allowed to use both Conventional/Humboldt you should be required to do both techniques and demonstrate knowledge of open face/block notching in a written test.
More importantly be able to complete all your cuts from either side.


----------



## tomtrees58 (Mar 15, 2008)

kool Nice timber tom trees


----------



## techdave (Mar 16, 2008)

*NIce point about all cuts from both sides*

Hi Chase, good point about being able to do all cuts from either side.

Nver ceases to amaze me how guys will fininish on the side with a less easy escpae, or cut under a side with dodgy /pendant burned limbs when the safeer side is open but not on the side they are comfy cutting from.

Most federal guys I have met with a c were pretty sharp/skilled, but I have seen a few who seemed to have been "brother in lawed" thru the cert. 

Couple of guys I see around "town" from the Descanso district of the CNF have gotten pretty good after a few seasons of experience. Nice to see young guys get a chance and come along, and gett good and learn to THINK about what they are doing. More than can be said for LOTS of guys working in LOTS of different dangerous jobs!

Get some learning process and instructors.


----------



## 046 (Mar 16, 2008)

thanks very much for sharing!!!


----------



## Saw Bones (Mar 16, 2008)

*Thanks*

Thanks for taking the time. Great Photo's and information.


----------

