# Elec-trick chokers



## northmanlogging (Oct 27, 2012)

Anybody have much experience with em? Have to admit all a I have with em is watching the hacks men whine about em, thought it might be a good Idea behind a skidder, no more crawling out of the cab to unhook, still need to pull string to hook em up but that's a given with a line skidder, my nephew isn't big enough to pull chokers yet, besides mom would kill me...

Anyway what I have seen on the boob tube was not encouraging, lots of jams with the mechanism, batteries going kaput, and I hear they are kinda spendy, and you would need some kind of controller in the cab yes? might not last long in an old open cab skidder, especially come brush fit time...


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 27, 2012)

They're getting more and more popular here under yarders but I've never heard of them used on a skidder before. That would definitely save some time and energy if you were unhooking your own drags.

Gotta wonder how they would hold up bouncing around on the way back out though, they'd be a lot closer together than on butt rigging and I'm sure they don't like being smacked together


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## ShaneLogs (Oct 27, 2012)

I don't think I would use them, To much things to worry about going dead/breaking. The old ones never fail and work good!


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 27, 2012)

From what I've heard the new generation of electronic chokers are more reliable than the original ones. Just like anything, they'll break if there's no regular maintenance or they are abused.

Regular chokers jam and break jut like the fancy ones do, they just cost less. The increased productivity and safety should be able to outweigh any mishaps I suppose


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## redprospector (Oct 27, 2012)

I'm just now getting used to using the manual kind. No more technology please. 

Andy


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## alleyoop (Oct 27, 2012)

talk to the company and they may deal with you just to get into skerder work worth a try,,,,,,,,,:msp_wink:


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 28, 2012)

Heres some electronic chokers at work, cos finding this stuff beats studying hands down 

Fortronics Electronic Chokers - YouTube


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## northmanlogging (Oct 28, 2012)

need a skidder first, got the go ahead from the war department today though :msp_w00t: now I just have to find one that isn't sold or junk(I called on three today)

regular chokers I can beat into submission, that and I have been playing with em since I was 11, they are an old hat to me... Its the electronic stuff I have trouble with, tend to throw stuff when it quits working for no apparent reason, like dirt or water inside it, or the batteries died twice in an 8 hour day. Mechanical stuff I get and I am usually patient with, circuit boards and micro switches I can't see whats wrong, therefore can't fix that bothers me and I go hulk on em and have to buy new ones, its embarrassing but its true

p.s. war department = wifey


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## All Tree NW (Oct 28, 2012)

*I used to set chokers on a tower side....*

under a madill 071. we used a mix of both conventional chokers and the electronic ones. i love regular old chokers they are reliable and easy to un-####. that being said. the electronic ones we used were pretty #######ed reliable. you just have to grease them every so often, batteries lasted several weeks, and they're pretty easy to work once you get used to them. i think they're awesome and would do well behind a skidder. you'd rarely have to get off to drop a turn. good luck.


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## Oldtimer (Oct 28, 2012)

northmanlogging said:


> need a skidder first, got the go ahead from the war department today though :msp_w00t: now I just have to find one that isn't sold or junk(I called on three today)
> 
> regular chokers I can beat into submission, that and I have been playing with em since I was 11, they are an old hat to me... Its the electronic stuff I have trouble with, tend to throw stuff when it quits working for no apparent reason, like dirt or water inside it, or the batteries died twice in an 8 hour day. Mechanical stuff I get and I am usually patient with, circuit boards and micro switches I can't see whats wrong, therefore can't fix that bothers me and I go hulk on em and have to buy new ones, its embarrassing but its true
> 
> p.s. war department = wifey



I know you guys work some steep ground, but take my advice, and get a Grapple / winch combo.
This one isn't so far away that it would kill the wallet with delivery..
Another out your way...


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## northmanlogging (Oct 28, 2012)

I like the idea behind the combo skidder, but unfortunately they are still very expensive for me. I can pick up a deere 440, garrett 15, international s11, s9, clark 666, and the occasional timberjack for under 5k and they are within an hours drive of here. Problem is that someone else out there wants em too and they are faster on the phone than I am. Once the ball starts really rolling and the skidder is paid off and working more or less full time than I can think about getting a track hoe a dozer and then consider going with a grapple skidder, until then all I've got is the gypo yarder, and it works ok but its slow, very slow. Baby steps is what I'm doing here, trying really hard not to go into debt while I do this, hence still working full time as a machinist, and logging most weekends.

Despite the common place use of Yarders out here a whole bunch of outfits run the grapple cats on pretty steep terrain, lot steeper than any skidder would be comfortable on.


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## OlympicYJ (Oct 28, 2012)

They are invading that's for sure. They seem to be pretty reliable as lots of tower loggers I know are going to them. Saves having a chaser and or having a guy under the lines. Some of em still have chasers especially the bigger tubes. I talked to one of the loggers about em and he said overall he was happy with them and thought they worked pretty good. The catch for you I think will be getting the necessary slack to get them to release. If I remember correctly they have to be free of tension to release once the release button has been pushed, that way they can't be released overhead if the button is hit accidentally, this could be a problem with a skidder by not having enough of a drop to get them slacked off. I would definitely call fortronics and inquire if guys have been using them behind skidders and cats successfully.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 28, 2012)

pulling forward a bit and then a quick backup should be enough to slack em you'd think? My biggest worry is the control box in the cab not a whole lot of places to hide that thing out of the weather and out of the way but where you can still get at it, without putting size 12 caulks through it from time to time


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## OlympicYJ (Oct 28, 2012)

northmanlogging said:


> pulling forward a bit and then a quick backup should be enough to slack em you'd think? My biggest worry is the control box in the cab not a whole lot of places to hide that thing out of the weather and out of the way but where you can still get at it, without putting size 12 caulks through it from time to time



I was thinking that would work, just like normally slacking off. I have seen and been told occasionally they will hang up and not release. Shovel clearing the chute just grabs the stick and pulls it out of the way, that's the usual snafu I guess. Allot of guys are going to them so they must work otherwise they would throw em in the canyon and say to hell with it 

How big is the box? I literally have no idea. Maybe build a weatherproof box out of steel so it affords the spendy lil bugger some protection and mount it behind the cab or back where the winch is?

I also don't know the cost, think I've heard some numbers once, how much are they? Per bell and how much is the box and controller? I think they sell them as a package deal but be good to know how much the individual replacements are.

If they will work with a cable skidder it cuts your turn around time by half so they could be worth it in the long run.


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 28, 2012)

OlympicYJ said:


> I was thinking that would work, just like normally slacking off. I have seen and been told occasionally they will hang up and not release. Shovel clearing the chute just grabs the stick and pulls it out of the way, that's the usual snafu I guess. Allot of guys are going to them so they must work otherwise they would throw em in the canyon and say to hell with it
> 
> How big is the box? I literally have no idea. Maybe build a weatherproof box out of steel so it affords the spendy lil bugger some protection and mount it behind the cab or back where the winch is?
> 
> ...



I thought they were around $2500 NZ per choker over here, and a set comes with a couple of chokers, the control box, a remote control, maintenance kit and a tracker so you can find them if they break on the hill

If you had a set with a handheld release remote you could leave the control box in the truck and just keep the remote on you during the day. That would solve the issue of protecting the box on an open cab skidder


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## wowzers (Oct 28, 2012)

The controller box on our yarder was slightly bigger than a power strip. I never used them. Seemed like a pain though because you had to paint them everyday because if you broke a choker everything comes to a stop while you go look for this expensive bell.


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 28, 2012)

wowzers said:


> The controller box on our yarder was slightly bigger than a power strip. I never used them. Seemed like a pain though because you had to paint them everyday because if you broke a choker everything comes to a stop while you go look for this expensive bell.



Many of the new ones come with choker locators tat pick up on the radio frequency for that very reason


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## OlympicYJ (Oct 28, 2012)

Sounds like the control box is practically a non issue then. I did forget to mention the paint thing lo

Hows things goin Preston? Gettin any snow where you're working?

StihlKiwi whats the conversion to USD on that and how much extra for the import tariff you guys have? Per bell I don't think they are that much.


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 28, 2012)

It's about $2k US. The price I found was from a presentation that is at least a year old, so no doubt they've got cheaper with time. The fortronics chokers I've used as an example are made here, so no tariffs to deal with. There's bound to be a couple of US made brands with all the same features, the name Johnson seems to ring a bell


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## OlympicYJ (Oct 28, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> It's about $2k US. The price I found was from a presentation that is at least a year old, so no doubt they've got cheaper with time. The fortronics chokers I've used as an example are made here, so no tariffs to deal with. There's bound to be a couple of US made brands with all the same features, the name Johnson seems to ring a bell



Gotcha. Hmm don't think I've heard of Johnson but fortronics are here. You guys seem to make quite a bit of stuff there on the Island. I've heard its for job creation?


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## northmanlogging (Oct 28, 2012)

Holey Hel, at 2k a piece that's potentially $12000 hanging off the back of a $5000 machine, that would take something like 25-30 loads just to brake even, if nothing brakes down:msp_ohmy: Think I might stick with the regular chokers for now, besides I need to lose some weight anyway


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 29, 2012)

OlympicYJ said:


> Gotcha. Hmm don't think I've heard of Johnson but fortronics are here. You guys seem to make quite a bit of stuff there on the Island. I've heard its for job creation?



Necessity is the mother of invention. I guess its a part of being relatively isolated from the rest of the world compared to most, If we don't have it and we need it, we'll figure something out. Its called the No. 8 wire attitude, cos everything can be made/done.fixed with a bit of No. 8 gauge fencing wire.

That's cool that fortronics are exporting to the states. We're finally bringing some technology the other direction too, motorised carriages are starting to catch on here


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 29, 2012)

northmanlogging said:


> Holey Hel, at 2k a piece that's potentially $12000 hanging off the back of a $5000 machine, that would take something like 25-30 loads just to brake even, if nothing brakes down:msp_ohmy: Think I might stick with the regular chokers for now, besides I need to lose some weight anyway



You're pulling 6 stems with a wheel skidder? how big are these sticks?


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## northmanlogging (Oct 29, 2012)

could be anywhere from 36" x 40' to 6" x 16' its good to keep your options open... most times it'll only be 3 and probably only pulling one of the big bastards at a time. A gypo has to make use of every option, even lowly fire wood loads, got a guy right now wants a log truck load of hemlock and only hemlock willing to pay $1200, for little stuff ya can't beat that.


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## redprospector (Oct 29, 2012)

Haha, I've got 10 slides hanging on the main line of my JD 440b. Only 8 chokers hanging though, I do keep 2 or 3 spares in the box under the arch. Best trip to the landing so far was 23 sticks ranging from 8" to 16" butt's. 
If it didn't make such a tangled mess I'd put 4 or 5 more slides on. But there is a point of deminishing returns. I think anything more than 10 chokers and you're spending more time untangeling chokers than it's worth.

Did I mention that I don't get many real logs having been demoted to being a mear thinning contractor in New Mexico?
Getting paid by the acre you have to get as much out in a turn as possible.

Andy


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## Gologit (Oct 29, 2012)

Chokers? I remember those. Haven't seen one lately, though.


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## StihlKiwi (Oct 29, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Chokers? I remember those. Haven't seen one lately, though.



That Cat doesn't look beat up enough to be in the bush, the photo must be staged


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## Gologit (Oct 29, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> That Cat doesn't look beat up enough to be in the bush, the photo must be staged



They don't look like that for very long. 


Back on topic...we see so much grapple equipment that a choker is a rare thing any more. We might keep a couple on the landing for towing somebody but other than that they're hard to find. A couple of the older Cats run combination...winch and grapples...but the winch seldom gets used for skidding.

Last year I was out checking things and I went for over a week without seeing anybody with their feet on the ground except for the fallers. And 'ologists, when we could talk them into actually getting out of the pickup. :laugh


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## redprospector (Oct 29, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Chokers? I remember those. Haven't seen one lately, though.



Hmph. Gotta be one in every crowd.

Andy


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## northmanlogging (Oct 29, 2012)

lucky me all the local guys are getting to old to go logging anymore and retiring or just plain tiring...
and the big outfits are going full mechanized, which means big cost, which means big jobs only, leaving the little stuff to the little guy, Me, and if I can make a go at it with old (cheap) gear and still pay the bills I call that a success. Keep the overhead as low as possible, fix everything I can myself, and only pay if there is no other honest way around it then well maybe I won't be crazy anymore just eccentric:msp_unsure:. Either way win lose or draw should be funny in the end right!


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## KiwiBro (Jul 29, 2020)

Bringing this one back from the dead to add the German "Ludwig" brand of electronic choker into the mix. I was eying up their smaller model choker (smaller than Fortronic's options) some time ago but the costs put me off electronic chokers.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 29, 2020)

northmanlogging said:


> lucky me all the local guys are getting to old to go logging anymore and retiring or just plain tiring...
> and the big outfits are going full mechanized, which means big cost, which means big jobs only, leaving the little stuff to the little guy, Me, and if I can make a go at it with old (cheap) gear and still pay the bills I call that a success. Keep the overhead as low as possible, fix everything I can myself, and only pay if there is no other honest way around it then well maybe I won't be crazy anymore just eccentric:msp_unsure:. Either way win lose or draw should be funny in the end right!


8 YEARS LATER... lol

I'm still fat

and that december I bought the missus a Deere 440a that still needs tires but still works everyday

I'm still the small guy comparatively (production wise) in fact the other outfits have gotten down right bloated lots of very big shiny machines on the hills lately

So far I've only take things to a shop twice, and only because I didn't have time or tools to mess with it.

3 years ago in Nov, I went full time gyppo, (largely because the machine shop I was working part time at fired me... but I didn't look for work after that)

And I've expanded from a POS crummy and an old skidder with a couple basket case saws, to an excavator, dump truck, log truck, and a pile of new saws. As well as a bunch of ancillary stuff, welders, fire wagons, etc etc etc. None of this has ever involved a direct loan, so I own all my gear outright.

Still funny though


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## slowp (Jul 29, 2020)

Your nephew ought to be old enough now to work for you.


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## KiwiBro (Jul 29, 2020)

Yeah I was reading these posts, knowing how long ago they were posted and wondering how much the present day stacked up to the aspirations/assumptions of the past.
How about a prediction for the next 8 years, and if we are lucky enough, we'll be able to look back and laugh at how good or bad it was. Although, perhaps just a few years to give us a better chance to still be upright and chucking chips.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 29, 2020)

slowp said:


> Your nephew ought to be old enough now to work for you.


Welp, I had him help with the trailer brakes after he got out of mechanic school..

and tried to get him some wrenching jobs at various places

but he ****ed off and got a job at boeing instead

at this point if my niece wasn't such a gurly gurl I'd think about hiring her, but she's a frail little thing that don't like getting dirty... besides she's got a good job and has moved up to being a lead already... I don't think shes even 20 yet


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## slowp (Jul 29, 2020)

northmanlogging said:


> Welp, I had him help with the trailer brakes after he got out of mechanic school..
> 
> and tried to get him some wrenching jobs at various places
> 
> ...



He might not have a job at the Lazy B soon. Sounds like they are in a bit of trouble right now.


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## northmanlogging (Jul 29, 2020)

KiwiBro said:


> Yeah I was reading these posts, knowing how long ago they were posted and wondering how much the present day stacked up to the aspirations/assumptions of the past.
> How about a prediction for the next 8 years, and if we are lucky enough, we'll be able to look back and laugh at how good or bad it was. Although, perhaps just a few years to give us a better chance to still be upright and chucking chips.


8 years?

The plan was to be running just the self loader log truck by then, but that was also supposed to be 5 years out from now to even buy one lol, in 8 years I'll be 50, and I already got weak knees and gimpys legs... so we'll have to see

As far as expanding the business? I like where I'm at, maybe get some newer/better equipment, what I got is doing the job, but they are old, and the dumb truck is woefully underpowered and geriatric. 

But the plan from day one was to use the logging side of the business to acquire acreage... so far that has eluded me


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## northmanlogging (Jul 29, 2020)

slowp said:


> He might not have a job at the Lazy B soon. Sounds like they are in a bit of trouble right now.


Yeah... though thats not really news

If any of the family blood is in him he'll work hard and make sure they would miss him if he went, so he should be ok, lots of worthless pricks that work there should go first, but it is a union shop so?


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