# soft dutchmen



## forestryworks (Sep 11, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbN1sKN7IlI

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## Cedarkerf (Sep 11, 2009)

Some interesting videos like his little ax trick


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## treemandan (Sep 11, 2009)

Impressive. of course I don't drop to much without a rope in it and would never try that. I do recomend you get a better saw though; 2 pulls to start it?


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## WesternSaw (Sep 11, 2009)

Man that was Awesome! How long have you been falling trees? There is something about watching people who know how to do their jobs well whatever that job might be.
Lawrence
P.S. I have never fell a tree in my life,but one day!


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 12, 2009)

Wow! Very Impressive. I had to watch that like 5 times before I could even begin to wrap my mind around it. 

Would really like to see it from a couple angles, to know whether the soft side is incrementally stepped, or vertically lined up. A crown shot as it lays into the weight and starts to turn would be very cool also. I guess what I'm sayin is, fly me out, and I'll be glad to run the camera for a week for free. :greenchainsaw:

I kept thinkin while you were working the backcut that it was goin straight for the lean, or gonna pinch and hang up, but it turned the corner and kept on comin sweet as can be. 

Mad skills!


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## forestryworks (Sep 12, 2009)

that ain't me for anyone who thinks so.


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 12, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> Wow! Very Impressive. I had to watch that like 5 times before I could even begin to wrap my mind around it.
> 
> Would really like to see it from a couple angles, to know whether the soft side is incrementally stepped, or vertically lined up. A crown shot as it lays into the weight and starts to turn would be very cool also. I guess what I'm sayin is, fly me out, and I'll be glad to run the camera for a week for free. :greenchainsaw:
> 
> ...



:agree2: Looks like most of the hinge is all the way on the right of the stump and the 3 kerfs in the face were from the center to the left!!! When the backcut was made he cut most of the hinge on the left (camera view) that started the twist,the kerfs on the face compress under weight and swing it more..IMO :monkey: Pretty sweet!!


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## ShoerFast (Sep 12, 2009)

Fantastic!

It sure humbles me to see what can be done! 

Keep them coming! 

+*1* repped!


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## fmaglin (Sep 12, 2009)

forestryworks said:


> that ain't me for anyone who thinks so.



Hey Forestryworks, thanks for a great thread! You must be in the East Texas Piney woods area? Lived in Abilene a while and sure didn't see many trees out there!


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## forestryworks (Sep 12, 2009)

fmaglin said:


> Hey Forestryworks, thanks for a great thread! You must be in the East Texas Piney woods area? Lived in Abilene a while and sure didn't see many trees out there!



i'm in north central.

abilene ain't much.


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## 056 kid (Sep 13, 2009)

Saw that a week or so ago. 

fun stuff there.


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## slowp (Sep 13, 2009)

For some reason, I think I detect an Oregon Accent. Must do research.


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## John464 (Sep 13, 2009)

Im trying to figure out why this works. the multiple slices adjust direction of fall without snapping the hinge, they bump the wood but since thinly sliced allow it to give, this allows hinge to remain in tact before realease. Is that what is going on there?


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## oldirty (Sep 13, 2009)

almost as if he was cutting in some steps towards the face. awesome vid.


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 13, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> Wow! Very Impressive. I had to watch that like 5 times before I could even begin to wrap my mind around it.
> 
> Would really like to see it from a couple angles, to know whether the soft side is incrementally stepped, or vertically lined up. A crown shot as it lays into the weight and starts to turn would be very cool also. I guess what I'm sayin is, fly me out, and I'll be glad to run the camera for a week for free. :greenchainsaw:
> 
> ...



Also an Ultra soft Dutchman on youtube that shows the stump better!!


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 15, 2009)

Well I tried the soft duchman yesterday and it works!!


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## Kiwilogger (Sep 20, 2009)

Wow. 

Lucky it was only a little tree, almost no hinge, backcut the same height as the felling notch, pretty bad cutting in my book.

Personally, I can't understand why a "standard" dutchman wouldn't have worked equally as well to turn that tree, with under half the time taken as using the technique shown.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't see the benefit in putting all those cuts in on the dutch cut side.


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## 056 kid (Sep 20, 2009)

Kiwilogger said:


> Wow.
> 
> Lucky it was only a little tree, almost no hinge, backcut the same height as the felling notch, pretty bad cutting in my book.
> 
> ...





How big do the trees grow over there in New Zeland??:monkey:


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## Gologit (Sep 20, 2009)

Kiwilogger said:


> Wow.
> 
> Lucky it was only a little tree, almost no hinge, backcut the same height as the felling notch, pretty bad cutting in my book.
> 
> ...



Hey, it works, and that's the test. There's no "one-size-fits-all" in falling and sometimes it doesn't hurt to try out something new. Even us old dogs can learn a trick or two. 
We've been falling snags lately and I've tried a couple of variations of that cut...just for fun. Sometimes it works real well but I've found that it works better in wood that's solid...some of those snags are stove pipes.


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 20, 2009)

Gologit said:


> Hey, it works, and that's the test. There's no "one-size-fits-all" in falling and sometimes it doesn't hurt to try out something new. Even us old dogs can learn a trick or two.
> We've been falling snags lately and I've tried a couple of variations of that cut...just for fun. Sometimes it works real well but I've found that it works better in wood that's solid...some of those snags are stove pipes.



Yea, it works great!!I used it on a hedge row tree to lay it on the ground flat instead of the limbs holding it up(all limbs faced field)nice tree to try it on. Turned about 90 degrees on the stump wich is what I was shooting. No more pulling trees over to limb along hedge rows for me!!


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## John Ellison (Sep 20, 2009)

Kiwilogger said:


> Wow.
> 
> Lucky it was only a little tree, almost no hinge, backcut the same height as the felling notch, pretty bad cutting in my book.
> 
> ...



Nobody knows about that particular tree except for the guy that fell it. A regular dutchman can have a pretty abrupt change of direction. The soft dutchman makes it less likely to stall out if it has to swing a good ways. 

There is the swing dutchman, the soft dutchman, the ultra soft dutchman. Does anybody ever use the Charmin Dutchman?


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 20, 2009)

LOL...Maybe that "Charmin dutchman"would be soft enough for the red oak I'm droppin right now ACORNS FLYING EVERYWHERE when they hit the ground!!


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## fmaglin (Sep 20, 2009)

Well, on that particular tree the soft dutchman worked for accomplishing what that faller wanted the tree to do. That's not saying a regular dutchman, or another technique wouldn't have worked just as well, but he used what he felt comfortable with and had confidence in. I get this all of the time. Someone will say "why didn't you do it this way" ; or " I never do it like that". It all comes down to different strokes for different folks.


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## hammerlogging (Sep 20, 2009)

RRSsawshop said:


> LOL...Maybe that "Charmin dutchman"would be soft enough for the red oak I'm droppin right now ACORNS FLYING EVERYWHERE when they hit the ground!!



Our deer should be heading your way then. WV has a zero mast year it seems. Acorns should be falling everywhere when pounding on wedges, but.... nothing.


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 20, 2009)

hammerlogging said:


> Our deer should be heading your way then. WV has a zero mast year it seems. Acorns should be falling everywhere when pounding on wedges, but.... nothing.



Red oaks are loaded with acorns up here BUT I'm also finding a lot of dead ones.... both red and white ???? Some right next to one another... some standing alone???


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## Greystoke (Sep 21, 2009)

*Respect*



Kiwilogger said:


> Wow.
> 
> Lucky it was only a little tree, almost no hinge,
> 
> ...


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## Greystoke (Sep 21, 2009)

John Ellison;1727713 [QUOTE said:


> The soft dutchman makes it less likely to stall out if it has to swing a good ways.



Well said



> Does anybody ever use the Charmin Dutchman?


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## Kiwilogger (Sep 22, 2009)

tarzanstree said:


> Kiwilogger said:
> 
> 
> > Wow.
> ...


You obviously have a far superior knowledge, and obviously have fallen far more and bigger trees than I, and most obviously have known far superior fallers to I. I bow to your superiority.

opcorn:


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## Gologit (Sep 22, 2009)

Kiwilogger said:


> You obviously have a far superior knowledge, and obviously have fallen far more and bigger trees than I, and most obviously have known far superior fallers to I. I bow to your superiority.
> 
> opcorn:



:hmm3grin2orange:Okay...you two guys will have to ride in different crummies...I can see that right now.


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## Greystoke (Sep 22, 2009)

*Professional Timber Fallers*



Kiwilogger said:


> You obviously have a far superior knowledge, and obviously have fallen far more and bigger trees than I, and most obviously have known far superior fallers to I. I bow to your superiority.
> 
> opcorn:



Obviously I do have a far superior knowledge, because I know an excellent timber faller when I see one, like the guy in that video...you on the other hand get on here and say he is using bad cutting techniques I guarantee that guy could make you look like a little schoolboy in the timber falling world As far as me falling more trees? I'm not sure , however, as far as BIGGER trees...all of your LITTLE trees put together might equal my one!:bringit: 







Cheers Mate!


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## fmaglin (Sep 22, 2009)

tarzanstree said:


> Obviously I do have a far superior knowledge, because I know an excellent timber faller when I see one, like the guy in that video...you on the other hand get on here and say he is using bad cutting techniques I guarantee that guy could make you look like a little schoolboy in the timber falling world As far as me falling more trees? I'm not sure , however, as far as BIGGER trees...all of your LITTLE trees put together might equal my one!:bringit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very well put Tarzan


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## Kiwilogger (Sep 22, 2009)

Keep telling the story, tarzan. 

:Eye:


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## Greystoke (Sep 22, 2009)

*The Story*



Kiwilogger said:


> Keep telling the story, tarzan.
> 
> :Eye:




Crikey, you sure got my dander up mate! I just wanted to let you know that I respect anyone who works in the timber industry. I feel that it is a brotherhood, and something to be proud of, especially since it has come under the scrutiny of so many tree huggers. I also know that I have worked around some of the best, and when someone from the other side of the world, comments on something the way you did, it gets my defense up. Anybody can cut down a tree, but to do it gracefully is something to be proud of. I fell timber for Columbia Helicopters, among others, mostly on the Pacific Coast, and Alaska, and have worked with so many different calibers of Timber Fallers, and I know that there was a handfull of them that were the best in our country! I don't know what it is like to cut timber "down under", but to work in the timber falling environments that I have, only the best Timber Fallers shined! I would love to come over there and fall timber, and maybe I will someday, but I will not be mocking your techniques, until I have been there, and seen for myself, what works, and what doesn't. That being said; can't we all just get along?


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 22, 2009)

Kiwilogger said:


> Keep telling the story, tarzan.
> 
> :Eye:



Can't believe your attacking Tarzan,he has helped more people than you realize!!!
Kiwilogger, you certainly entitled to your opinion but S:censored:T man go cut a eucalyptus tree and chill out!!!!


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## hammerlogging (Sep 22, 2009)

Kiwilogger said:


> Keep telling the story, tarzan.
> 
> :Eye:



Nothing against either of you, but I thought it was a pretty witty response: short, concise.....quality marks in the world of ####talking.

I've gotten great results from it on the handful of soft and hard hardwoods I've tried it on over the last few days, better luck than with the generic (single ply) dutchman. Of course, if its a money tree, or has any head lean, I'm boring it! But thats another thread. I'll be sure to get my earful there about it.


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## Kiwilogger (Sep 23, 2009)

Gee whiz.

Don't take it all to heart you guys. 


I had a different opinion than anyone else here, so be it. opcorn:

Just because I had a differing opinion, doesn't make me arrogant, it makes me opinionated.  Oh, and tarzan, I don't roll over when some one calls me arrogant just because I had an opinion, I never will. And over here, suggesting someone would get tramped because of a comment made about a felling technique would be the start of a knuckle up. I guess some things in logging never change, no matter what part of the world you live in. 

I tell you straight up, and I'll still suggest, from what I saw, that tree was no where near a heavy leaner, and need not much else than a wedge or 2 in the quarter cut. Dutch cut, yep, definitely saves a wing cut but I didn't see any reason there to go to the extent putting all those cuts into that tree. Here in NZ, that was illegal, and would have him stood down for a week. For starters he cut off 30% of the hinge with the dutch cut, and the rest of the hinge, to me, looked under 5% of the diameter, and the backcut was at best level with the notch.

I never suggested he was a bad faller, I've been guilty of doing illegal drives and dutchmen plenty of times, my stumps are never perfect, except in difficult falling. It's all subjective. He was obviously experienced.
The only other thing I'll say about that tree, is putting all those cuts in takes time, and production felling is hardcore.


Maybe he was just showing the technique?

Falling like that, no way you would keep up dropping trees for a yarder over here. opcorn: The yarder would smoke him.


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## 056 kid (Sep 23, 2009)

Kiwilogger said:


> Gee whiz.
> 
> Don't take it all to heart you guys.
> 
> ...





Hahaha 

you are a funny guy....


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## John Ellison (Sep 23, 2009)

I know there are a lot of variations of a swing dutchman and a lot that I have never seen. But, everything that worked has somewhere around a third of the lower part of the hinge cut. How would they work otherwise? Kiwilogger do you know of one?
Going back again and looking at the film at 20 sec. in the tree looks to me like it has a pretty good lean. For me that much wedging would take some time, but them I'm a whimp.


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## Greystoke (Sep 23, 2009)

*"These are the Days of Our Lives"*

Kiwilogger;1732380]


> Just because I had a differing opinion, doesn't make me arrogant, it makes me opinionated.



Say what you will, but when you say an obviously excellent timber faller, has bad techniques, that's arrogance in my book



> Oh, and tarzan,
> 
> 
> > I don't roll over when some one calls me arrogant just because I had an opinion, I never will.
> ...


Nor do I :bringit:




> I tell you straight up, and I'll still suggest, from what I saw, that tree was no where near a heavy leaner, and need not much else than a wedge or 2 in the quarter cut. Dutch cut, yep, definitely saves a wing cut but I didn't see any reason there to go to the extent putting all those cuts into that tree.


Now that sounds like an opinion.




> Here in NZ, that was illegal, and would have him stood down for a week. For starters he cut off 30% of the hinge with the dutch cut, and the rest of the hinge, to me, looked under 5% of the diameter, and the backcut was at best level with the notch.


That is why "You would not make it in my world, and I would not make it in yours". Unfortunately, OSHA has started to micromanage a GOOD Timber Fallers bag of tricks here, and when I see people going along with techniques like a raised backcut(a good Faller knows when to use it, and when it is NOT NEEDED) I will always be there to challenge some of the rules in the book.



> He was obviously experienced.


About time to give credit where credit is due



> The only other thing I'll say about that tree, is putting all those cuts in takes time, and production felling is hardcore.


I was a Busheler for most of my career, so I know about production falling...I also know that if a guy is an experienced, well seasoned Faller, it takes way less time to swing a tree around than it does to be a "wedge beater", but again a good faller knows when and when not to beat on wedges.




> Maybe he was just showing the technique?


Yep...and an excellent video display of techniques IMHO...I would challenge anybody on here to give it a go, and see how it turns out




> Falling like that, no way you would keep up dropping trees for a yarder over here. The yarder would smoke him.


What?...Highball Yarder Logging was invented, and perfected here, and I would put a highball Gyppo crew here(along with their Fallers who know how to stay ahead, or they get tramped) against one there any day of the week...I know; I know, I am being arrogant now, I can't help it:bang:

Gdday Pardner


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## Greystoke (Sep 23, 2009)

John Ellison said:


> I know there are a lot of variations of a swing dutchman and a lot that I have never seen. But, everything that worked has somewhere around a third of the lower part of the hinge cut. How would they work otherwise? Kiwilogger do you know of one?
> Going back again and looking at the film at 20 sec. in
> 
> 
> > the tree looks to me like it has a pretty good lean. For me that much wedging would take some time, but them I'm a whimp.



 Sounds like experience to me


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## Kiwilogger (Sep 23, 2009)

John Ellison said:


> I know there are a lot of variations of a swing dutchman and a lot that I have never seen. But, everything that worked has somewhere around a third of the lower part of the hinge cut. How would they work otherwise? Kiwilogger do you know of one?
> Going back again and looking at the film at 20 sec. in the tree looks to me like it has a pretty good lean. For me that much wedging would take some time, but them I'm a whimp.


No, John, that's what the dutch cut is, cutting off one side of the holding wood. But my point is, that combine over a third of the holding wood cut off, the rest of it so thin as to be nearly non existent, and then to put a back cut that is at best level with the notch all into a tree that is supposed to be a heavy leaner, is, in my book, not good practice.

Don't get me wrong, I've put thousands of dutch cuts in, all fallers use it.


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## John Ellison (Sep 23, 2009)

But he was cutting as it came around, the hinge was not thin until it came around and was headed in the right direction. And I did'nt see any trees that were close enough to have been brushed on the way down, so no problem with it coming back over the stump.
Everybody has their own take on it. I have to say that I think that he knows what he is doing.


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## 056 kid (Sep 23, 2009)

Kiwilogger said:


> No, John, that's what the dutch cut is, cutting off one side of the holding wood. But my point is, that combine over a third of the holding wood cut off, the rest of it so thin as to be nearly non existent, and then to put a back cut that is at best level with the notch all into a tree that is supposed to be a heavy leaner, is, in my book, not good practice.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I've put thousands of dutch cuts in, all fallers use it.



Having cut so many, you sure arent too good at recognizing a good one...


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## Hddnis (Sep 23, 2009)

Swinging the tree with a dutchman is many times faster than beating wedges and hoping they work. Face it, you are working against gravity either way and counting on a small percentage of the original wood to hold. Pounding a wedge adds a lateral shock and a momentary spike in all the forces involved.

The comment about the hinge is lacking perspective because as was pointed out the hinge isn't so small until after the lean of the tree has been shifted to the desired direction.

Any time someone holds up a law or a book to give authority to a braggadocios claim you can be sure they don't know jack about what their saying. If it is really that way over there then they need a revolution and I know we wrote the book on that!




Mr. HE


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## super3 (Sep 23, 2009)

He never said it was a heavy leaner...he said "all the limb weight was to the right". The opposite way he wanted it to lay, the reason for the swing.


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## Kiwilogger (Sep 24, 2009)

056 kid said:


> Having cut so many, you sure arent too good at recognizing a good one...


Recognising a good what, a good dutchman?

I guess the tree went over. It worked. If that's the only qualifier, then she's home and hosed.


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## 056 kid (Sep 24, 2009)

Kiwilogger said:


> Just one last little thing to say.
> 
> Falling trees kills people. More than it should. Simple as that.
> 
> ...






I guess I understand your concern but you are saying things that are quite arrogant imo, but who am I to speak ha.


When you have guys that have learned from people that learned from guys that did SOO MANY unimaginable feats in engineering with little more than cross cuts, axes, cables, steel, water and animals, individuals that where able to move mountains with there nogins so to speak. and drive little sticks into the ground with 400 foot tall trees, you had better believe that they knew what they where doing...

Cmon you are scrutinizing a stump over the computer, and like you said,
the tree hit the deck and fell into the desired lay, what the hell else is supposed to happen in that scenario??

sure you can babble on about holding wood and low back cuts but when it comes town to puttin the mayo on the bread, the guy is gettin his job done and from what I can tell, he is not dead so he must have things under control.


These old timers could tell us what we need to do..............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcEto_Q8MlY


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 24, 2009)

Kiwilogger,most of these dutchmans are used only under certain conditions,you do realize that right???We dont just go out and cut "ultra soft dutchmans" on every tree,just to watch them come around!!! Conditions warrant what we use!!!
I have see too many people rely on wedges to help with "lean" and snap the hinge while pounding a stack of them in!! Wedges are just a crutch(tool)you have to know WHEN to use them and WHEN not to!!!!


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## Kiwilogger (Sep 26, 2009)

OK, I deleted the last post I made as I didn't want to be seen as preaching safety to a bunch of loggers, particularly ones that do know plenty. Kind of like wearing out a keyboard for nought.  But seeing as how it got quoted without me realising it, I'll just repost it below....


*Just one last little thing to say.

Falling trees kills people. More than it should. Simple as that. 

Keep promoting that cut, cutting off the holding wood, low backcut, and then say to all and sundry that's excellent falling technique, then you continue to foster a culture of potentially unsafe practices.

It can not be refuted that holding wood and incorrect backcut location contribute to far too many falling deaths, worldwide. That and falling objects.

Oh, and tarzan, you guys invented cable logging, that's undeniable. But to suggest you perfected it is :spam:



opcorn:

  *


And in reply to some comments, I never said the guy wasn't a good faller, I said it was not good technique, and was slow. What some of you guys somehow seem to forget, statistically, more experienced men are killed falling than green ones. There should be no need to explain that, and some of you would do well to remember it.

I feel like I've been :deadhorse: so I'll sign out now, before I'm blacklisted.

:hmm3grin2orange:


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 26, 2009)

Falling timber is a dangerous occupation in the first place...A friend of mine was killed falling,limb snapped as the tree hit the ground and a baseball bat size piece came flying back and hit him in the side of the head!!!ANYTHING about this occupation can kill you!!!When its your time to go ITS YOUR TIME TO GO can be in the woods can be in the shower!!!!!


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## 056 kid (Sep 26, 2009)

Kiwilogger said:


> OK, I deleted the last post I made as I didn't want to be seen as preaching safety to a bunch of loggers, particularly ones that do know plenty. Kind of like wearing out a keyboard for nought.  But seeing as how it got quoted without me realising it, I'll just repost it below....
> 
> 
> *Just one last little thing to say.
> ...


*


You can stick to your methods and we will stay with ours...


I thik you are a :yoyo: though*


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## Danger Cat (Sep 30, 2009)

*Size Does Not Matter, or so I have been told...*



Kiwilogger said:


> Wow.
> 
> Lucky it was only a little tree, almost no hinge, backcut the same height as the felling notch, pretty bad cutting in my book.
> 
> ...




There is only Godspeed involved.
It works on any sized tree, here is the caveot, the wood on the stump has to be tough and stringy. Otherwise the tree breaks off and goes sideways.
Did the tree not swing around? Anymore holding wood left and it's wood pull, then dedock by the scaler... Or an explanation to the cutting boss if it is noticed.
There is nothing in front to collide with so a taller back cut is not neccessary, the caveot for this, the cutting boss wants a quality job and flush butts are good. Who want to saw on the butt after it has been in the dirt?
Over here it is called a face cut.
The wood in these trees is really stringy. There is a good chance it would have stopped, then while you are sawing again it breaks off sideways because the forward momentum is gone. 
Anyone can ram, slam, and jam. It is not always about time, quality takes precedence on this propery. 
All those cuts let it swing around without stopping or breaking off by setting down GENTLY on the Dutchmen.
So therefore you are mistaken about the extra cuts.
If a person was to ask why before engaging their mouth (keyboard) you might actually learn something from this dumby.



Unless you have cut everywhere on the planet, there is still some learning to be had!


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## smokechase II (Oct 1, 2009)

*Safe back-cut*

Kiwi:

Regarding the back-cut height. It does not have to be a regulation 2" or whatever your local spec is - if there is no reason to protect against a butt coming back.

If there is no tree(s), hillside, rock, logs or other obstacles to cause the butt to come back over the stump there is no reason to have stump shot. (Also, some trees at the edge of meadows can have thick sweeping limbs that will push a butt back.)

Look at the end of the video, nowhere does the lay offer any butt kick back as everything is down and its going downhill anyway. If its your company policy to leave a higher back-cut on every tree fine, but don't say that "incorrect backcut location contribute" when that can be refuted. On a tree by tree basis.

In fact, with the greater efficiency of a matching face and back-cut it is a quicker / flat stump for commercial purposes and less wedging is needed because of that efficiency. I.e., when fighting a lean with wedges, the further the back-cut height is from the apex of the face the greater the wedging effort will need to be.

=========

Time at the stump and vertical awareness.

Its not that important on this tree but note the cutters looking up fairly decently during the flat of the face and during some of the back-cut. Not at all during the slanted face nor the multiple soft cuts.

Its not just needing strong holding wood that should take this cut usually out of consideration for a hazard tree faller. Any technique that takes your awareness away from dangers because of the focus needed to complete it should be a prime safety thought.


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## smokechase II (Oct 1, 2009)

*stump time*

You could have mentioned that he spent a little extra time atthe stump loking at his saw because it was pinched.


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## Jacob J. (Oct 1, 2009)

Good video. This is an older trick, which was more popular back when saws were slower. Another trick a guy can use is to take the 'wedge' from your face cut, chop it in half, and tuck that piece of wood on one side of your face (whichever side you want the tree to kick away from.) Then cut your holding wood a little thinner on that side. 



smokechase II said:


> You could have mentioned that he spent a little extra time at the stump looking at his saw because it was pinched.



I noticed that. There had to have been some kind of weight on that side of the tree...


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## Greystoke (Oct 1, 2009)

Danger Cat said:


> There is only Godspeed involved.
> It works on any sized tree, here is the caveot, the wood on the stump has to be tough and stringy. Otherwise the tree breaks off and goes sideways.
> Did the tree not swing around? Anymore holding wood left and it's wood pull, then dedock by the scaler... Or an explanation to the cutting boss if it is noticed.
> There is nothing in front to collide with so a taller back cut is not neccessary, the caveot for this, the cutting boss wants
> ...




Amen!:agree2:


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## Greystoke (Oct 1, 2009)

> =smokechase II;1746366]Kiwi:
> 
> Regarding the back-cut height. It does not have to be a regulation 2" or whatever your local spec is - if there is no reason to protect against a butt coming back.
> 
> ...


:agree2:

=========



> Time at the stump and vertical awareness.
> 
> Its not that important on this tree but note the cutters looking up fairly decently during the flat of the face and during some of the back-cut. Not at all during the slanted face nor the multiple soft cuts.



I notice that you are always pointing this out(vertical awareness), which is good, but...not everybody is just a hazard tree faller. In the work environment that I come from, we were both "hazard tree fallers" and production timber fallers. We had to distinguish between the trees that presented a significant hazard, and the ones that did not. I am not saying that a faller should never look up, but if a production faller spent 6-7 hours a day, 6-7 days a week looking up each tree as if it were going to crumble over on top of him(like one would with a hazard tree)...his neck vertebrae would be fused together in a week. The tree in this vid looked to me like a nice sound fir tree, in a clean looking stand of timber, and would probably be a good place to take a nap on a warm summer day with no worries about dangers above...that is if they weren't cutting it all! dang loggers! lol!




> Its not just needing strong holding wood that should take this cut usually out of consideration for a hazard tree faller. Any technique that takes your awareness away from dangers because of the focus needed to complete it should be a prime safety thought.



Most Hazard trees, snags, etc, that I have fell, rarely had ANY strong holding wood.


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## Greystoke (Oct 1, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> You could have mentioned that he spent a little extra time atthe stump loking at his saw because it was pinched.



Actually happens sometimes when a guy is swinging a tree...as it is a very ticklish move. I have watched guys swing trees, that have been falling timber for 40 solid years, get their saw pinched momentarily just like that. Again...distinguishing when to "run like a rabbit", and when to hang tight, as the "environment that I come from", if you ran away from every tree as if it were going to kill you, you would be so worn out at the end of the day that pure fatigue would get you killed, let alone smashing numerous power saws.


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## 056 kid (Oct 1, 2009)

:agree2:

lots of guys obcess over all the wrong stuff.


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## fmaglin (Oct 1, 2009)

056 kid said:


> :agree2:
> 
> lots of guys obcess over all the wrong stuff.


:agree2:


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