# My New Logging Helper



## fwf (Jun 10, 2005)

Here is a shot of my new logging helper. It is a John Deere WorkSite Pro GT80 grapple bucket on my JD 110.

The log is 22 feet long, 17 inches diameter, and estimated weight of 1859 pounds.


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## crane tree (Jun 13, 2005)

*oh yes*

beautiful, a machine that will do it all -the grapple set up is really 1st class and appears heavy duty(i dispise and will always regret owning a piece of equipment paid good money for that starts bending,showing wangs and woogidys just becuase it was used hard,like everyday[not reckless]). 
---i have a question! every piece of equipment has its place and time. i have gone to useing track skidsteer as all around for the reason of when its wet even moist when you have to go onto any kind of manicured or "precious" lawn-for the "floatation"---compared to such an excellent allround piece of equipment as this tractor set up is, what are the comparisons or advantages/disadvantages when your on said manicured lawns and places?
---i can only afford (both money and trust {for the drivers}) to have one rig that hauls equipment.
thanks in advance


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## crane tree (Jun 13, 2005)

*i see it now*

 upon rereading, you did say Logging--i recon you dont log over someones lawn, but the question still valid in a what if kind of manner.
thanks


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## fwf (Jun 13, 2005)

crane tree,

You are right, I seldom do residential work, except as a favor to someone, but I am very concerned about the ground damage when working in the woods and around the property where we also live. 

I demoed a Bobcat skid steer a few months ago. It had two primary problems; it was not as stable as a tractor on rough terrain (our woods is on the side of a mountain), and the ground damage was excessive. I could see that it would quickly produce erosion problems in the woods, and damage the ground/roads around the log yard that is very close to our house. On the other hand, Bobcat skid steers have an attachment for just about any task you could ever imagine, and if you work in tight spaces, skid steers are very compact and maneuverable.

For me a tractor that accepts skid steer attachments was a better option, especially since I already have rear-mounted PTO equipment such as a 8" chipper and forestry winch.

By the way, I have heard others say that you can learn to use a skid steer to minimize ground damage. While I can't argue that point, skid steers have a pretty widespread reputation for being unfriendly to turf and ground.


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## crane tree (Jun 14, 2005)

*skid steer manuvering*

i discovered that figuring out all the lanes of travel and what gonna happen over the course of th job helps to minimize the tear ups witha skid steer--keeping as straight a line as possible and making no 180 turn arounds is the key--go in a straight line to the intended object-back up in the same lane without turning at all--if its wet or moist, overlapping the path so as not to tear things up---if necessary to angle back or turn a little , then makeing wide arching turns is the way to go.
---now bobcat has the turning wheel system, and surely all the other maufacturers will follow suit, that and the xwide turf tire has more or less changed everything.
---not an expert, but hate doing landscape work and waiting for money until things are made right.
contract limitation is one thing-word of mouth advertizement and customer satisfactor another.
good luck with your most excellent tractor set up


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## Mike Barcaskey (Jun 28, 2005)

fwf, are you milling yourself or selling?
way keep that log at 22'? 
all mine get cut to length in the field


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## fwf (Jun 28, 2005)

Mike Barcaskey said:


> fwf, are you milling yourself or selling?
> way keep that log at 22'?
> all mine get cut to length in the field



I sell to a local mill. The reason for the 22' length is I get paid a premium for 16' and greater and if I cut it I would have had a 16 and a 6 -- the 6 is useless.

The reason it is 22' long is because it was blowdown, and because of the terrain, that is the longest section I could pull out. The rest is in a deep gorge with the top jammed between 2 trees so it can't be pulled with the winch.

Under normal conditions, everything would be cut to 16.5' in the field as you suggested.


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## Mike Barcaskey (Jun 28, 2005)

just dumped a load of chips, came back in for a quick drink before a couple of arby td's

from the looks of that log, I'd say you would be lucky to get 16.5 feet of straight log.
on the far end you'd lose 3 feet or so for the crook in the butt end and on the near side there looks to be a crook that would cut off six feet or so
at least that's what I see in the picture

my mill will cut up to 14.5 feet
the mills I sell to want 8' 4", 10' 4" or 12' 4". they dont have a need for any thing longer (and I probably counldn't handle anything longer)


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## fwf (Jun 29, 2005)

Mike Barcaskey said:


> just dumped a load of chips, came back in for a quick drink before a couple of arby td's
> 
> from the looks of that log, I'd say you would be lucky to get 16.5 feet of straight log.
> on the far end you'd lose 3 feet or so for the crook in the butt end and on the near side there looks to be a crook that would cut off six feet or so
> ...



Don't know what to say. Maybe you need to find a new mill. I deal with a commercial mill which does things like cut hardwood t&g for Weyerhauser. They paid me market price for all 22', so I guess it was straight enough for them. 

Sounds like your mill has you on a pretty tight rope based on their inability to handle long logs. I don't know any mills in this area that won't take 16+, and the guys doing timber frame beams will even take (prefer) 24' and 32' if you can get them there.


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## Mike Barcaskey (Jul 1, 2005)

just my observations on the pic and to start discussion.

It's not that they cant handle the long logs, its that they have no call for them.
if anything the large "commercial" mills put us small loggers on tight ropes
there are many different markets for logs and I always want to find more markets.

One mill here gives me .20pbf for spruce (International rule). most mills would run you off if you showed up with a load of spruce. but he wont even touch sasafras. he will pay me double what walnut is going for. 

another mill consistently gives me .38 to .45 pbf for the sassafras. This guy prefers 12 footers and other than the sassafras only wants oak, ash and hard maple.

Another fellow has a small homemade mill and buys all my cherry, walnut and red oak under 8 feet, as short as four.

different mills, different markets. the one thing I have learned is that you will usually get a better deal (more $ and treated better) if you sell to a mill that sells to the end user and not to a mill that is cutting and then selling to another processor of the lumber.

I know there's someone around here milling long beams like you are talking, just haven't found them yet.


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## sorgoid (Jul 10, 2005)

*I need a logging helper!*

I'm a recently transplanted (oh...is that tree humor?) arborist and need to make some contacts for sub-contracting. Looking for someone to pick-up and haul large logs from residential removals. Specifically, I am removing 7 cedars ranging from 14in/55ft to 30in/85ft in size. I would hope that these good logs be milled and not wasted. Wood is straight and sound...new owner doing some land reconfiguration.

Anyone know anyone or is anyone that can do this sort of work around the Puget Sound area? This specific job is in Issaquah.

William


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## Chainsaw_Maniac (Jul 14, 2005)

That's a nice grapple. I find that just a fork on an 80 HP tractor is just as good for what I'm doing. (basically the bottom part of your attatchment withou the top part). With a fork like I have you have to make sure that the log is well balanced though. I find that just skidding it behind the tractor on my PTO powered Farmi logging winch or with a chain is good too.


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## fwf (Jul 14, 2005)

sorgoid said:


> ...I would hope that these good logs be milled and not wasted. Wood is straight and sound...new owner doing some land reconfiguration...



William, I would caution you to be sure and advise the mill that the logs came from residential property, otherwise you could get a bad reputation. Many mills will not take residential logs because of the high occurrence of metal debris (nails etc.) that is found in them.


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## fwf (Jul 14, 2005)

Chainsaw_Maniac said:


> ...I find that just a fork on an 80 HP tractor is just as good for what I'm doing....



Yep, been there and done that, and it works pretty well. But the grapple is especially handy for loading a log trailer when you don't want to just roll the logs off a set of forks, or anytime you want precise placement of the log. And once I got them, I find they have multiple uses, especially when clearing brush -- just read in, grab and pull rose, honeysuckle, and vines out in big batches.


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## Mike Barcaskey (Jul 14, 2005)

fwf,
do the mills around there have metal detectors?
They're pretty common around here. Haven't picked one up myself yet, but it's on the menu.


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## fwf (Jul 14, 2005)

Mike Barcaskey said:


> fwf,
> do the mills around there have metal detectors?...



The only two mills that I have sold to don't use them (that I know of), but these mills are owned by Mennonite and Amish guys that probably don't go in for those "newfangled gadgets". I know of a few small private sawyers who use them because they take cheap wood anywhere they can get it.

I've never had a problem with my logs, but if I do, I will certainly invest in a detector. My best mill is only 5 miles away and I sure don't want to jeopardize that source of revenue.


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## crane tree (Aug 2, 2005)

*learning*

good discussion , thanks for the perspective


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## crane tree (Aug 2, 2005)

metal detectors--when logging onsite or checking logs at the "home" yard,will a metal detector dependably find metal all the way from side to side or does the log need to be rotated? i'm guessing there is a size limit,=-for example,--up to 18" across the detector will dependably find any metal-anything bigger will have to be rotated--what is the limits or how do you go about the procedure of metal detection-i encountered alot of strict limits in 2003up in Virgina after hurricane Isabel around Richmond and Chessie Bay--millions of board feet were coming out of the area residences-it didnt take long before the mills just would not take logs from unknown loggers-or had very sophistacated detectors that rejected any and all metal imbedded logs, or they would pay very little and some nothing at all--i covered a huge geographical area, saw many many circumstances,loggersand different mills-i learned that metal in logs was a fundamental common sense issue,at one mill took a half day tour and got to see how they handled the logs with metal there-a huge stack of logs with blue at the ends all basically worthless or would have to be hand cut,rechecked until it passed the detector under a different drastically downgraded grade and lenght.

So, if loggersfind metal, then what are the options,if there are any?
thanks in advance


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## CoreyTMorine (Sep 1, 2005)

i keep meaning to get a dog and train him to sniff out metal in trees. 

Lanny's detector will check about 30% of the circumferance of a 24" log down to 6 or 8 inches. itsa PITA. Most logs i cut in yards i just charge the owner a couple hundred to dispose of, then send them to a mulch making place, or for pulpwood.


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## Mike Barcaskey (Sep 1, 2005)

I think the reality is somewhere in between. Saw mills will tell you there's metal in every tree thats within 100 feet of a house.

Recent articles in trade magazines and info from the "greener" side of the industry will tell you we are throwing away millions of board feet of good lumber from the "urban forest" (who ever dreamt up that name?)

There's metal in yard trees for sure, but probably only about 25% or less in my experience.

its still too much to chance with a circular mill, but a band mill or chain saw mill, some guys say its worth the risk. If cutting for the log owner, just charge for every blade broke, otherwise pay very little for the logs

metal detectors I am familar with will go about 6-8 inches. scan 4 sides, cut your cant, scan again


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