# Firewood won't burn :(



## MtnBikerChk

This is the first year we're using our fireplace so we got our landscaper to recommend someone to buy firewood from. We bought a cord - shame on me for not asking more questions - I know, but I was told it was seasoned firewood. I trust my landscaper so I didn't ask what kind of wood or how long it had been seasoned for.....


Anyway, so now we are trying to use it and the wood won't burn. It just chars and burns out quickly.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated


----------



## rb_in_va

MtnBikerChk said:


> This is the first year we're using our fireplace so we got our landscaper to recommend someone to buy firewood from. We bought a cord - shame on me for not asking more questions - I know, but I was told it was seasoned firewood. I trust my landscaper so I didn't ask what kind of wood or how long it had been seasoned for.....
> 
> 
> Anyway, so now we are trying to use it and the wood won't burn. It just chars and burns out quickly.
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated



Are you starting with kindling, then working your way up to full size pieces? Snap a pic of the wood, with bark if possible.


----------



## MtnBikerChk

rb_in_va said:


> Are you starting with kindling, then working your way up to full size pieces? Snap a pic of the wood, with bark if possible.



we don't really have any kindling - we've been using "cheater logs" (duraflame firestart).

pics:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/MtnBikerChk/IMG_5321.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/MtnBikerChk/IMG_5320.jpg


----------



## 12guns

the wood should still burn even if freshly cut and green (although not ideal)
You have to start w/ small pieces and gradually get larger as the coals build up. w/o that, it is unlikely that a firestarter will directly light large green logs. Try splitting on of them into lots of splenter like pieces, then build a fire w/ your firestarter. once that's going, add some slightly larger pieces, and so on. I have burned a lot of green wood, just takes a hotter fire to burn.


----------



## MtnBikerChk

12guns said:


> I have burned a lot of green wood, just takes a hotter fire to burn.



I was kind of starting to think that this is the case.

I'll have my husband get out the axe! Thanks


----------



## ggttp

If you have a grate in the fire place that the wood sits on do not remove all your ashes. You want to keep the ashes just a few inches below were your logs sit. This keeps the hot embers that fall, close to the wood. It will make starting and keeping fires much easier.


----------



## laynes69

Looks like dead wood, or a little punky. It should be just fine. If it hisses and foams then you have green, or wet wood. If there is no hissing or foaming then the wood should be dry enough. Like posted, get some kindling and go with some smaller splits, then the larger and you will be fine.


----------



## tawilson

You say this is the first year using your fireplace. If it is an existing one you are just starting to use, you should have it inspected before using.


----------



## okietreedude1

the stuff looks almost rotten. If so, it aint gonna burn worth much but the smoke will be something else.

And like wilson said, get your chimney cleaned & inspected, it helps prevent chimney fires.


----------



## MtnBikerChk

Thanks all. We had the chimney cleaned (and repointed) this year too!

That one piece is dark - but the others are not - I probably picked bad one to photograph but that's what was in the house.

I was able to get it roaring pretty good last night after all your help.

THanks again.

I'm enjoying reading the posts on this site


----------



## mga

MtnBikerChk said:


> This is the first year we're using our fireplace so we got our landscaper to recommend someone to buy firewood from. We bought a cord - shame on me for not asking more questions - I know, but I was told it was seasoned firewood. I trust my landscaper so I didn't ask what kind of wood or how long it had been seasoned for.....
> 
> 
> Anyway, so now we are trying to use it and the wood won't burn. It just chars and burns out quickly.
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated



what type of fireplace do you have? does it have doors on it? when buring are the doors open or closed? is it being starved of oxygen? from what you have stated, it sounds more like a starved-for-air fire problem.

start your fire using small kindling, even splitting some of that wood into smaller pieces until you get a hot fire going. then throw 2 or 3 pieces onto it. be sure there is air flow under and around your grate.


----------



## MtnBikerChk

mga said:


> what type of fireplace do you have? does it have doors on it? when buring are the doors open or closed? is it being starved of oxygen? from what you have stated, it sounds more like a starved-for-air fire problem.
> 
> start your fire using small kindling, even splitting some of that wood into smaller pieces until you get a hot fire going. then throw 2 or 3 pieces onto it. be sure there is air flow under and around your grate.




no doors!

thanks for the tips!


----------



## mga

MtnBikerChk said:


> no doors!
> 
> thanks for the tips!



lol...no doors....that kills the "starved for oxygen" guess.


----------



## daemon2525

Not to Hi-Jack the thread, but I have a regular brick fireplace/chimney, etc. and the thing has GLASS DOORS on the front that close. It has mesh under that glass that cannot be closed. Is it ever OK to run the fireplace with the glass doors closed? That just does not seem right to me. Won't the glass get hot and break, or get too hot?

thanks


----------



## begleytree

Normally that is what you would do, open the glass doors, start the fire and close the mesh curtians. are you sure the mesh won't close? Mine sometimes gets stuck and needs a good pull to free it.
-Ralph


----------



## mga

i have a brick fireplace too. however, it has a thick steel box around it and vents on the sides of the brick. (convection heating. i tried small fans in there but i didn't care for the noise.

years ago i bought something called an Arvin heat stream. it sits inside the fireplace and the logs sit on several tubes. the blower pushes air thru the box, then thru the tubes then out under the glass doors via a 1" vent. the damn thing throws alot of hot air!! unfortunately they don't make them any more. the other day i put a digital thermometer infront of the vent..it was pushing about 272 degrees, and i didn't have a big fire going.

anyways.....

add that to my glass doors. when i installed the glass doors, not only did i add extra insulation to the sides, but i sealed the frame to the bricks with some 1/2" foam tape stuff. i also ran some silicone caulking where it sits on top of that heat stream vent to further make it air tight. i also did some things to make the glass doors shut slightly tighter to prevent air from seeping in. 

i burn every fire with the doors closed and this set up heats my 2000 SF ranch home and it burns very little wood. the fire inside is very hot, the logs glow red. i've never worried about the glass breaking and sometimes they get so hot you can't touch them. those doors have been on there for years.


----------



## JBinKC

To me it looks like dead wood that has been hanging around for multiple years that has been recently cut (within a month). I agree it lost a portion of its original btu potential and it probably still has more moisture in the wood than desired as I see very little evidence of cracks on the ends of the cuts. And if the the wood is punky (mushy) it acts as a sponge so it must be always kept in a bone dry location for it to burn more efficiently.

My suggestion is to build a hot fire of kindling and smaller logs 3 " inches and less and then progressively use larger pieces as the temperature of the stove rises and keep the remaining wood in a dry location. It should be much better for burning within a few months. 

If the wood is still not burning I would then conclude you have a draft problem with your chimney.


----------



## begleytree

The owner's manual on mine specifically states not to close the glass doors if a fire is burning. My sister had a glass panel break on her after closing the doors on a dying fire at bedtime. Boils down to different models, It seems..
-Ralph


----------



## daemon2525

Yes, My fireplace is like MGA.. It has a thick steel box built into the fireplace with air space behind the steel. It has vents on either side of the door opening at the bottom and at the top. Cold air goes in the bottom vents and behind the steel and out the top vents. It works good. I have placed a small 9" x 9" fan in front of the bottom vents blowing in and I can REALLY get some heat out of the thing. This small plastic fan is so quiet that you cannot hear it.

Begley , my mesh curtains work fine.. I meant that there is additional air vents under the doors that would draw air even if the glass doors were closed. That is why I thought that maybe you were suppose to close the glass doors under certain conditions.


----------



## bytehoven

You might consider makin' a practice of collecting a pile of your small fallen limbs/branches.

If you use the 9oz duraflame starter logs, break them up length wise into 2 or 3 sections, and lay them in with a nice 1 foot high pile of the tree branches. 

Lay a half dozen or so 1-2" thick branch sections on top of this starter pile.

Let her rip.

When you burn about half way through this starter pile, load in some more 1-2" branches or log sections. You're trying to get a nice little pile of ambers going before you load in your larger logs.

I also agree you might benefit from splitting your firewood logs into something no larger than 3-4" on a side. I have a smaller 36" fireplace which is never able to get burning hot enough to keep a pile of 6"+ logs burning. It just won't do it. 

The other thing I have found useful with a smaller fireplace, is making the length of the logs shorter. I cut my firewood to 12" lengths. This lets me lay some log pieces on a diagonal when stacking wood on the grate, making it easier for air and fire to weave through the log pile.

IMHO, keeping a good fire going in a smaller fireplace is almost an art.

Regarding splitting up your firewood logs, get yourself a small 12" axe and a small 12" 5lb maul hammer. This is an easy combo to work, driving the axe through the log with the maul. The dryer the wood, the easier it will split. If you have any logs which have obvious limb joints running through the log, don't bother trying to split them. Keep them for burning one at a time when you have a real nice fire going.

Good luck and enjoy your fireplace ambiance.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood

I had a guy at work ask the same exact thing just the other day. Just remember the fire pyramid-fuel, oxygen, and heat. The wood is the fuel, so you're good to go there. But if you're not getting it hot enough, either with coals/embers or plenty of kindling and smaller pieces to start with it won't burn. Likewise, if you don't have sufficient airflow, not just TO the wood, but THROUGH the wood it won't burn. The fire needs to breath, so make sure plenty of air can get into the bottom of the wood pile. I don't mean just opening the doors. If you set the wood flat on the bottome of the stove, that's not enough air. It needs to be up on top of kindling, or a grate or built into a little lattice or something to get airflow through the pile. Without enough heat or oxygen, the wood will just sit there, smolder and go out.

And make sure you familiarize yourself with the basics of burning a fire-no wet wood, burn hot every so often to "clean" your chimney and keep creosote down, don't burn a slow, dirty fire all the time, again for creosote. I heat my house 100% with wood and I love it, but if you do it wrong you can get yourself in trouble really quickly.

Welcome to AS.

Jeff


----------



## bytehoven

I also have that "heatilator" design fireplace, with the electric fan option. It's a little loud when running but does a nice job once the box warms up.

My unit recommends keeping the glass doors closed, to reduce the excess airflow running up the chimney, which can cool the rest of the house by drawing in cold air from outside.

It feels like you are getting more heat when the doors are open, but this radiant heat doesn't overcome the increased airflow/draft in the rest of the house.

My fireplace manual had specific instructions about how to use the doors. The biggest no-no was having the doors positioned other than fully closed or fully open.

When trying to help heat the house, I keep the doors closed.

When letting the kids come into the room fresh out from their tubby time, I have the doors open because the radiant heats feels wonderful.

Wasn't it Benjamin Franklin who said "... a fire place is a wonderful thing"?


----------



## MtnBikerChk

fishhuntcutwood said:


> And make sure you familiarize yourself with the basics of burning a fire-no wet wood, burn hot every so often to "clean" your chimney and keep creosote down, don't burn a slow, dirty fire all the time, again for creosote. I heat my house 100% with wood and I love it, but if you do it wrong you can get yourself in trouble really quickly.
> 
> Welcome to AS.
> 
> Jeff



are those csl logs a waste of money?


----------



## fishhuntcutwood

Here ya go, I thought I'd put some pics in for ya. 

First, my "kindling." I don't waste time with tiny stuff. I'd only use branches and the such if you don't have any proper kindling around. I do use BONE dry cedar though. This stuff burns hot and fast. 







Then I stack it. Some use a "teepee" or whatever. Just something to get air through the wood stack and let it flow and breathe. Like I said, putting the wood directly on the stove bottom won't work. So it's stacked, and stuffed with paper. White paper works, newspaper is awesome. Magazine paper doesn't work that well. This is it with a fraction of the paper I use. I left it out for the pics so you can see the stack. I put tons of paper in. I save my paper and cardboard all year long to burn throughout the winter.






I light it. Add cardboard to get the heat up, and let the wood catch. This is it full ablaze and warming up. Most of the flame you see is cardboard and paper.






Here it is within just a few minutes. The wood is hot, it's caught, and is burning on it's own now. My stove has either a door, or an open front. To get it started, I'll leave the door off so I can watch it, but once it's going, the door goes on to really put out the heat, and give me the control over it I need.






Dry wood, plenty of heat, coals, air. You're good to go.

Jeff


----------



## fishhuntcutwood

MtnBikerChk said:


> are those csl logs a waste of money?



I don't know if they're a waste, but you certainly don't want to solely depend on them to keep your chimney clean. I've never used them because I burn a proper fire and when I get up on my roof every couple of months, theres very little build up. In fact, I was up there last night, and it was almost clean after burning for the last two months. The build up that was there was just soot, and not actual creosote. It was more like powder than the tarry creosote. 

Chimney fires are real, and it's nothing to climb up on my roof and check it out, run a chimney brush up and down a couple of times and sleep well that night.

Jeff


----------



## MtnBikerChk

fishhuntcutwood said:


> I don't know if they're a waste, but you certainly don't want to solely depend on them to keep your chimney clean. I've never used them because I burn a proper fire and when I get up on my roof every couple of months, theres very little build up. In fact, I was up there last night, and it was almost clean after burning for the last two months. The build up that was there was just soot, and not actual creosote. It was more like powder than the tarry creosote.
> 
> Chimney fires are real, and it's nothing to climb up on my roof and check it out, run a chimney brush up and down a couple of times and sleep well that night.
> 
> Jeff



so tell me how to burn a proper fire - or linky?

cool - another toy to buy - my husband will be thrilled with me climbing in the roof!


----------



## fishhuntcutwood

MtnBikerChk said:


> so tell me how to burn a proper fire - or linky?



Hmm... I guess by proper, I just mean that I'll burn it hot initially, or at least hot a couple of times a day to keep my chimney warm and to bake out as much of any creosote that may have formed. And then afterwoord, I don't like to turn it all the way down where it's burning "cooler" and slower. Cool and slow equals dirty. Wet wood also equals dirty. Dirty means creosote. Creosote forms when you're burning wet wood and it's byproduct goes up the chimney, or even when perfectly good, dry smoke goes up and cools enough to condense before it gets all the way out. It condenses in your chimney and builds up. At least that's what I was taught. I've never formally looked it up, so I'm sure others here will have a definate answer for you. I'm sure there's stuff online you can look at, Google may have something for ya. 

Alot of burning a stove it just getting to know how your particular stove burns for you and then using it accordingly. Of the stoves I've had, they've all burned differently and had different temperments.


----------



## MtnBikerChk

fishhuntcutwood said:


> Hmm... I guess by proper, I just mean that I'll burn it hot initially, or at least hot a couple of times a day to keep my chimney warm and to bake out as much of any creosote that may have formed. And then afterwoord, I don't like to turn it all the way down where it's burning "cooler" and slower. Cool and slow equals dirty. Wet wood also equals dirty. Dirty means creosote. Creosote forms when you're burning wet wood and it's byproduct goes up the chimney, or even when perfectly good, dry smoke goes up and cools enough to condense before it gets all the way out. It condenses in your chimney and builds up. At least that's what I was taught. I've never formally looked it up, so I'm sure others here will have a definate answer for you. I'm sure there's stuff online you can look at, Google may have something for ya.
> 
> Alot of burning a stove it just getting to know how your particular stove burns for you and then using it accordingly. Of the stoves I've had, they've all burned differently and had different temperments.




thanks. I burn it HOT AS HELL (or not at all) LOL :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

*Firewood Won't burn !!*



MtnBikerChk said:


> we don't really have any kindling - we've been using "cheater logs" (duraflame firestart).
> 
> pics:
> http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/MtnBikerChk/IMG_5321.jpg
> 
> http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/MtnBikerChk/IMG_5320.jpg



By looking at your photos, It looks like your firewood had been cut and split the same day of delivery. Due to it looks like its freshly cut and freshly split. The photos does not show any aging process like having a weathered look on the cut and split surfaces. The wood does show some punkyness. I would say the wood is from a dead standing tree or the log has been sitting around for quite some time, due to the photo's seems to show some loose bark. Seasoned firewood is usually logs that been processed (cut and split) and been aging for 3 to 9 months while in a finish product (cut and split) form. I guess every firewood dealer has a different version of what seasoned firewood is, but the consumer only has one version of what seasoned firewood is.


----------



## manual

*Seasoned is seasoned*

I have a hard time understanding people telling me it takes three to what six mounths to season wood. Sure maybe Green wood.
Whatever, I fell this two days ago. We call it Gray back Oak.


----------



## aarcuda

manual said:


> I have a hard time understanding people telling me it takes three to what six mounths to season wood. Sure maybe Green wood.
> Whatever, I fell this two days ago. We call it Gray back Oak.



sure it will burn and it will produce heat BUT some of the energy will be wasted converting the water in the wood to steam. and thats not so good. plus, theres more creosole getting stuck in your flue.

BTW, the fireplaces with the 4 vents, metal firebox can be either a heatilator or a brickolator fireplace (depending on the size of the firebox with the brickolator having a larger deeper firebox) and to get thos vents to work well, you need to fire that baby up nice and hot and get the heat to soak intothe brick, then the air going thru the passages heats up really well. And after the fire goes down after a bunch of hours, the brick remain hot for a long time throwing off heat still. I LOVE MY BRICKOLATOR


----------



## Freakingstang

manual said:


> I have a hard time understanding people telling me it takes three to what six mounths to season wood. Sure maybe Green wood.
> Whatever, I fell this two days ago. We call it Gray back Oak.




Anything will burn, but the wetter, green wood takes more of the possible heating BTU's to dry out the wood before it burns.

I like Red and white oak. It produces a ton of heat, with minimal coals when dry. I won't burn it green. I split it and let it dry 6-12 months before burning.

I cut some this summer and tried burning it a week or so ago when it was really cold. It didn't burn well, just hissed and pop'd. I like to load the stove and go, not worry about milking it all day to get heat out of it.

Differant stoves will react differant to wood being green. Grandpa burns everything green. Just like saws, everyone has their favorite method. Do you notice a lot of creosete buildup burning green wood?


----------



## STIHL-KID

It's really amazing how some people depend on those anti-creosote logs you can buy at the store for cleaning chimneys. Nothing beats a thorough cleaning and just plain inspecting your chimney system. Last year some college kids made the news in my town concerning a chimney fire. They had just moved into a rental house with a fireplace. I guess they figured that a few store bought cresote logs would desolve years of buildup. WRONG! They burnt the house to the ground. Some people's kids........opcorn:


----------



## olyman

and that wood--looks like its from sort of pine--not the best wood---hope didnt pay a lot----


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

manual said:


> I have a hard time understanding people telling me it takes three to what six mounths to season wood. Sure maybe Green wood.
> Whatever, I fell this two days ago. We call it Gray back Oak.



From reading your reply, Then I guess you agree that commencing from a living green tree (aka Green wood) , it would take aprox 3 to 6 months to season (e.g.; " Sure maybe Green wood" ). If thats the case, what part of that don't you understand or " hard time in understanding" ??? You answered your own question !! Part 2 ; It seem that you stated " you cut down a gray black oak, two days ago". Is this a quessing question for me ????
I guess you have to put the shoe on the other foot. If you ordered seasoned firewood from a firewood dealer, what would you knowingly expect to recieve ?? Would you expect to have the wood cut down for a few days and cut & split and delivered to you the same day and have it classified or sold to you as "seasoned firewood" ??? Hellooooooooooo !!!


----------



## Biketrax

*depth of FP too!*



begleytree said:


> The owner's manual on mine specifically states not to close the glass doors if a fire is burning. My sister had a glass panel break on her after closing the doors on a dying fire at bedtime. Boils down to different models, It seems..
> -Ralph


I have the same rig and mine is rather deep! when I used to use it (dont any more Wood stove downstairs) always closed the doors. my .02 cents worth


----------



## manual

Firewood Guy USA said:


> From reading your reply, Then I guess you agree that commencing from a living green tree (aka Green wood) , it would take aprox 3 to 6 months to season (e.g.; " Sure maybe Green wood" ). If thats the case, what part of that don't you understand or " hard time in understanding" ??? You answered your own question !! Part 2 ; It seem that you stated " you cut down a gray black oak, two days ago". Is this a quessing question for me ????
> I guess you have to put the shoe on the other foot. If you ordered seasoned firewood from a firewood dealer, what would you knowingly expect to recieve ?? Would you expect to have the wood cut down for a few days and cut & split and delivered to you the same day and have it classified or sold to you as "seasoned firewood" ??? Hellooooooooooo !!!




OK every body that look at my post did not look close enough.
Thats Gray Back not gray Black Oak, Meaning the bark has falling off and is decaying, Or there is standing dead Oak, Meaning what it means Dead.
I have sold Fire wood for many years and have always heated my house for many years. I bought this house in 1993 so I know what burns and what don't.
No I don't burn Green wood, as a primary wood heat source, I don't recommend anybody to do so.
I sell wood that I just cut down the same day. I don't even stack it and will burn the same day I cut it. Dry and ready to go,
you bet your bottom dollar its seasoned wood. I have people calling me back wanting more. This year I sold just over 100 cords. Last year almost 300 cords.
Just dropped off five face cords this week and the neighbor seen what I sold and wanted some too.
I wish I had may camera last night to show what happens when you don't have a fireplace maintenance program.
I am a Volunteer Fireman. We were up till 2:30 in the morning putting out a house fully engulfed.
Yes there is people out there that sell green wood as seasoned but only once. around here you will get a bad name fast


----------



## manual

MtnBikerChk said:


> we don't really have any kindling - we've been using "cheater logs" (duraflame firestart).
> 
> pics:
> http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/MtnBikerChk/IMG_5321.jpg
> 
> http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/MtnBikerChk/IMG_5320.jpg


 That wood you are showing looks like Aspen. not the best in in the world to burn as a heat sourse. We call that gofer wood. once you get it burning you "go fer " more.
That wood looks dry by the way the bark is falling off and the stains on the ends.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood

manual said:


> I sell wood that I just cut down the same day. I don't even stack it and will burn the same day I cut it. Dry and ready to go,



I guess I don't know what we're arguing about. Who cares how long between cutting and selling? It's a matter of how long it's been dead and drying or "seasoning." It can either dry standing as a snag or stacked on the ground. Maybe I'm missing your point. 

But yes, you can burn wet wood. In survival school we burned logs we pulled out of a lake. Anything will burn.


----------



## PA Plumber

FHCW,

I would like to hear/read more about the "lake wood" burning!


----------



## manual

fishhuntcutwood said:


> I guess I don't know what we're arguing about. Who cares how long between cutting and selling? It's a matter of how long it's been dead and drying or "seasoning." It can either dry standing as a snag or stacked on the ground. Maybe I'm missing your point.
> 
> But yes, you can burn wet wood. In survival school we burned logs we pulled out of a lake. Anything will burn.



No arguing, Just stating a fact like you, Seasoned wood can be standing dead wood, Wood does not have to be cut and stacked for months to be call seasoned.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood

PA Plumber said:


> FHCW,
> 
> I would like to hear/read more about the "lake wood" burning!



HA! Not much to tell. Winter survival school on Kodiak for all aircrew and pilots. It's cold, it's overnight, it sucks. You eat live hermit crabs and make your shelter an all of that. Comes time for a fire, you get one started like on TV with a flint or whatever. Once you get it going on moss, grass and twigs, and get it hot enough, it'll burn anything....albeit smokey. So yeah, we drug some logs out of a little lake, and within a couple of hours of "drying" out near the fire, they went on themselves and burned.


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

*Interesting .............*



manual said:


> OK every body that look at my post did not look close enough.
> Thats Gray Back not gray Black Oak, Meaning the bark has falling off and is decaying, Or there is standing dead Oak, Meaning what it means Dead.
> I have sold Fire wood for many years and have always heated my house for many years. I bought this house in 1993 so I know what burns and what don't.
> No I don't burn Green wood, as a primary wood heat source, I don't recommend anybody to do so.
> I sell wood that I just cut down the same day. I don't even stack it and will burn the same day I cut it. Dry and ready to go,
> you bet your bottom dollar its seasoned wood. I have people calling me back wanting more. This year I sold just over 100 cords. Last year almost 300 cords.
> Just dropped off five face cords this week and the neighbor seen what I sold and wanted some too.
> I wish I had may camera last night to show what happens when you don't have a fireplace maintenance program.
> I am a Volunteer Fireman. We were up till 2:30 in the morning putting out a house fully engulfed.
> Yes there is people out there that sell green wood as seasoned but only once. around here you will get a bad name fast



Yes I guess I did misread you post in what "Gray Back' is. I don't think that will fly in this region in offering dead,decaying or punky wood as seasoned firewood. I don't even know or why consumers in your area keeps buying that stuff. When we get a punky or dead log, we just toss the whole log out. Its basically a junk log. Oh well !! I guess there is a difference in what quality firewood is. But anyway, good luck to you.


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

*Who Cares !!*



fishhuntcutwood said:


> I guess I don't know what we're arguing about. Who cares how long between cutting and selling? It's a matter of how long it's been dead and drying or "seasoning." It can either dry standing as a snag or stacked on the ground. Maybe I'm missing your point.
> 
> But yes, you can burn wet wood. In survival school we burned logs we pulled out of a lake. Anything will burn.



I think the consumer cares more than all of us. Don't you think so ??


----------



## PA Plumber

That "gray back" oak manual has in his pics is great stuff. We have a lot of that at our farm. Standing dead and seasoned. Directly from the woods to the stove. The first 1/2" or so is definitely "punky" or "soft", but very good density further down. Even a little damp, I've had no trouble with it burning long, hot, and clean.


----------



## Corley5

Firewood Guy, have you ever fallen and cut dead standing trees into firewood? Some the hardest, driest firewood I cut is dead standing sugar maple and ironwood (hophorn bean). Standing dead red oak isn't bad either  Not all dead wood is punky and not all punky wood is dead and the last time I checked every tree I cut into firewood was dead


----------



## fishhuntcutwood

Firewood Guy USA said:


> I think the consumer cares more than all of us. Don't you think so ??



I don't have firewood consumers, and I don't buy any of my wood, so I don't know. I'm not in the habit of falling dead timber (dead trees are dangerous and not worth anything), but I know that all dead standing trees aren't bad or rotten. Some of the fir I'm burning litterally as I type this was a dead blow down. I don't cut for firewood, I just burn slash and nonmerchantable timber. I'm not a firewood guy. I just burn some of what I fall, but it's enough to heat 100% with throughout the winter.

Jeff


----------



## MtnBikerChk

I never thought my lil ole question would turn in to four pages of discussions and debates!

I :rockn: 

LOL!


----------



## Leebo

MtnBikerChk said:


> I never thought my lil ole question would turn in to four pages of discussions and debates!
> 
> I :rockn:
> 
> LOL!



We are Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

You want discussion and debate? Go to the Chainsaw section. Just write:
"My husband and I are thinking of buying our first chainsaw. Is the Poulan Wildthing a good choice? We have a 48" diameter dead tree to take down. It's 8 feet from our house."


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

MtnBikerChk said:


> I never thought my lil ole question would turn in to four pages of discussions and debates!
> 
> I :rockn:
> 
> LOL!



Yes, you are right about your lil olde question, but it may not be over yet. I think its interesting to all on what the other parts of the country is using, offering firewood for sale to the average consumer. I guess there is a big difference in what quality firewood is. I guess it all boils down, for an average consumer, you get what you pay for. And yes, I guess anything will burn eventually from gray back wood to cut up pallots to bags of leaves to even pond soaked logs. That goes to show you, as to a consumers stand point, don't shop for price when you are shopping for firewood, you might get burned. Remember,check out the quality too that you are purchasing.


----------



## manual

Same wood, I have been burning all week,
Theres is no foaming or even steaming going on.
that log is solid and puts out great Btu's. 
Thats Quality seasoned wood in anybody standards.


----------



## John Ellison

Corley5 said:


> Firewood Guy, have you ever fallen and cut dead standing trees into firewood? Some the hardest, driest firewood I cut is dead standing sugar maple and ironwood (hophorn bean). Standing dead red oak isn't bad either  Not all dead wood is punky and not all punky wood is dead and the last time I checked every tree I cut into firewood was dead



Corley is right, if the end product is the same, whats the diff?
Around here there is post oak laying on the ground. The outside half inch or so is rotten, Looks like nothing you would want to burn, but it is perfect firewood.


----------



## zemmo

fishhuntcutwood said:


> I don't have firewood consumers, and I don't buy any of my wood, so I don't know. I'm not in the habit of falling dead timber (dead trees are dangerous and not worth anything), but I know that all dead standing trees aren't bad or rotten. Some of the fir I'm burning litterally as I type this was a dead blow down. I don't cut for firewood, I just burn slash and nonmerchantable timber. I'm not a firewood guy. I just burn some of what I fall, but it's enough to heat 100% with throughout the winter.
> 
> Jeff



We cut a lot of standing dead alligator juniper around here, it's the very best firewood available, starts easily, smells wonderful, doesn't creosote out the chimney. It doesn't burn as long as oak, but my house gets too hot even in the coldest weather if I put a bunch of oak in. I have a bunch of oak that I cut green that I'm not going to burn until next year. One of the local woodcutters told me that the 17" rounds of oak would take 4 years to dry if I didn't split it (it's might hard to split when green). I find that hard to believe, in this here desert climate, but ?


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

Corley5 said:


> Firewood Guy, have you ever fallen and cut dead standing trees into firewood? Some the hardest, driest firewood I cut is dead standing sugar maple and ironwood (hophorn bean). Standing dead red oak isn't bad either  Not all dead wood is punky and not all punky wood is dead and the last time I checked every tree I cut into firewood was dead



Sure , I cut dead standing trees before. They are usually rotten & punky and are full of ants and insects. But again, as a firewod dealer, I will not sell that garbage around here to the consumers. I know that if I ordered logs and or firewood from a dealer, and he delivered to me this so called dead and or gray back or what ever you want to call it, wood to me, I would tell him to take that sh*t back. I can see why some firewood dealers around the country are selling firewood below cost. Again, I guess you get what you pay for. End of subject !!


----------



## PA Plumber

I don't understand.:bang: Quite a few folks have posted that dead standing oak, or otherwise, is not always "punky." Maybe a little soft on the first 1/2" or so, but is still very burnable and puts out great BTU's. That doesn't mean it is poor quality or someone is trying to get someone else. They are just observations made from folks who have cut hundreds, and maybe thousands of cords of wood. (I'm only into the mid hundreds myself. I don't sell firewood, just cut for my own use.) I wouldn't even bring home the stuff you are talking about, let alone trying to sell it to someone.


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

PA Plumber said:


> I don't understand.:bang: Quite a few folks have posted that dead standing oak, or otherwise, is not always "punky." Maybe a little soft on the first 1/2" or so, but is still very burnable and puts out great BTU's. That doesn't mean it is poor quality or someone is trying to get someone else. They are just observations made from folks who have cut hundreds, and maybe thousands of cords of wood. (I'm only into the mid hundreds myself. I don't sell firewood, just cut for my own use.) I wouldn't even bring home the stuff you are talking about, let alone trying to sell it to someone.



I also posted my observations too, as well as quite a few other folks did. So what part of that don't you understand !!


----------



## JAM

*Firewood*



manual said:


> That wood you are showing looks like Aspen. not the best in in the world to burn as a heat sourse. We call that gofer wood. once you get it burning you "go fer " more.
> That wood looks dry by the way the bark is falling off and the stains on the ends.




Looks like Balsam to me but, it's pine for sure. Burns fast and hot. Ideal for sitting in front of an occasional fire for the evening or starting the fire for a hardwood burn. Either way it should be split smaller.
Glass doors; depends on the unit, some are tempered glass and some are clear ceramic. Mine you either have them fully open or closed no halfway.
In warmer temps. I leave the doors open and the radiant heat is enough to keep the house plenty warm. In colder Temps. I close the doors and the internal blower and outside air source come into play. Back to the subject; It sounds like a little too much moisture for the size of the splits, Even dead wood still contains some moisture, lots of paper, smaller size to start with.


----------



## Bowtie

in respect to the tempered glass or ceramic glass part of that, I replaced a broken pane in my fireplace with tempered glass...BAD IDEA. Finally coughed up the money and bought ceramic. The tempered glass exploded twice after a few heat cycles. Maybe I just burn hotter than some, but I will never put tempered glass in any kind of fireplace again, it is only heat rated to around 450 degrees, as ceramic is rated up to 1200.


----------



## cord arrow

> So what part of that don't you understand !!



funny how a guy can wait around SIX years to pounce on an unassuming individual.....


----------



## fishhuntcutwood

PA Plumber said:


> I don't understand.:bang:.



You're OK Plumber. Everyone here is on the same page you are, but I think Firewood Guy is just trying to impress upon us how superb and amazing his product is. Good for him. Every one of us here has burned wood we found dead, standing or not, and for sure some that was a little punky and had some critter holes in it. We're just meant to think it's junk and to only burn fresh, bark on, cut live wood.

If he only knew that I've burned madrona I found dead washed up on the beach! I don't make a habit of burning driftwood for obvious reasons, but I'll take solid madrona anytime. He sure wouldn't sell it, but it burns fine for me.


----------



## laynes69

Some of the best wood I have burned has been dead and down, or dead and standing. If its a little punky so what, It still burns well and produces alot of heat. Around here the wood is free for me, and if its a little light, or punky, I'll save that for daytime. Right now what I am burning I scrounged up in the woods a few days ago. Downed dead ash, which is hard as a rock and dry, and dead elm, which both produce good btus and will carry ove through the night. Me personally I wouldn't hesitate to buy downed dead firewood. If its solid its fine for me, and probably alot of people.


----------



## STIHLSamantha

a lot of people who purchase wood tend to want to burn it that year and if it is ready to burn when delivered the better for them....if it burns well and it is dry a lot of people don't care whether it was cut down fresh and allowed to dry outside for a summer or a year or whether it was down in the woods as a result of a windstorm the summer before and it is bone dry and ready to burn....personnally, i would rather clean up and cut dead and dry stuff first before cutting down a live tree....better for the environment since it allows the surrounding trees to thrive and it doesn't just lay there wasting and rotting....the stuff we are burning now is bone dry and was all dead and down....nothing live cut down here....and we brought in about 25 face cord for ourselves that way and helped out a few people in the area with their wood also....


----------



## bytehoven

STIHLSamantha said:


> ....personnally, i would rather clean up and cut dead and dry stuff first before cutting down a live tree....



My sentiments as well. There are a few of us in the neighborhood who cleaning up fallen limbs and trees in our local wooded areas.

Some of the fallen stuff is beyond burning, but there is a great deal of fallen timber that burns nicely. I have a huge pile of limb sections ranging 1-4" in thickness and I love burning this stuff. 

Any freshly fallen trees I clear for civic association members, is usually too green to burn. So depending on the type of wood and if the neighbor wants it, I either take the wood for myself, help them stack it or help them get it ready for removal.

If we continue to have a mild start to our winter, I will restock my wood supply with trips to the woods, clearing up good fallen timber.


----------



## musch

I have been burning birch and hickory that fell in a storm last summer, and it is VERY nice. 

I guess I would season it a little more, but you cant beat that hickory.


----------



## grandpatractor

*My two cents*

Different species of trees rot a different rate. Birch or popple on the ground for more than a year and it is basically junk. Oak can lay on the ground for numorous years and still be rock hard in all but the very outer layer. It just depends on the kind of tree. Around here the best firewood is either elm that has died from dutch elm disease and is standing with the bark all peeled off and dry and hard as a bone, or oak that has died from oak wilt and is standing there with the bark peeled off. The county I live in owns alot of wooded land and has opened up areas for the residents to cut standing dead or down oak that has died of oak wilt, just need a permit for 5 bucks a cord. Maybe mrfirewood doesn't have any oak in his neck of the woods and the species he cuts rot up right away if on the ground?
done now


----------



## manual

Maybe MRfirewoodguy could get away with his Woody ways where he lives. and all the power to you.
But the first time you go door to door with your "Designer Wood" in these parts. you would be in for a suprise. LOL
Lets see I sell $hit wood with bugs crawling through it. "Good one"

Ok,I'm sure you have herd of the Birch Bore Beatle Bug. The DNR can't even kill them because they bore inside " live " trees, 
So how do they taste Kiln Dried.

Oh yea who did you get to grow your "Designer Wood" LOL


----------



## manual

JAM said:


> Looks like Balsam to me but, it's pine for sure. Burns fast and hot. Ideal for sitting in front of an occasional fire for the evening or starting the fire for a hardwood burn. Either way it should be split smaller.
> Glass doors; depends on the unit, some are tempered glass and some are clear ceramic. Mine you either have them fully open or closed no halfway.
> In warmer temps. I leave the doors open and the radiant heat is enough to keep the house plenty warm. In colder Temps. I close the doors and the internal blower and outside air source come into play. Back to the subject; It sounds like a little too much moisture for the size of the splits, Even dead wood still contains some moisture, lots of paper, smaller size to start with.



Pine ah....Maybe so. Then That could be the pine pitch coming out of the wood. Don't Know. I am lucky enough not to burn pine wood.
I do understand theres nothing wrong with it people have been burning it for years. I would think it would take just along to dry as oak.


----------



## JAM

*Glass*



Bowtie said:


> in respect to the tempered glass or ceramic glass part of that, I replaced a broken pane in my fireplace with tempered glass...BAD IDEA. Finally coughed up the money and bought ceramic. The tempered glass exploded twice after a few heat cycles. Maybe I just burn hotter than some, but I will never put tempered glass in any kind of fireplace again, it is only heat rated to around 450 degrees, as ceramic is rated up to 1200.



I have to agree with you on that one. But some units are shipped from the factory with tempered glass and after time and heat cycles the temper is gone out of the glass forcing the owner to either buy replacement glass from the Mfg. or aftermarket ceramic. Ceramic is spendy but well worth the cost.


----------



## JAM

*Firewood*

We have the birch bug here too, lots of dead and dying birch standing around needing to be cut. Have to get to it pretty fast since birch doesn't last very long unsplit.


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

grandpatractor said:


> Different species of trees rot a different rate. Birch or popple on the ground for more than a year and it is basically junk. Oak can lay on the ground for numorous years and still be rock hard in all but the very outer layer. It just depends on the kind of tree. Around here the best firewood is either elm that has died from dutch elm disease and is standing with the bark all peeled off and dry and hard as a bone, or oak that has died from oak wilt and is standing there with the bark peeled off. The county I live in owns alot of wooded land and has opened up areas for the residents to cut standing dead or down oak that has died of oak wilt, just need a permit for 5 bucks a cord. Maybe mrfirewood doesn't have any oak in his neck of the woods and the species he cuts rot up right away if on the ground?
> done now



This topic is getting more more interesting to me. I gather what everyone been telling me is that this so called "Gray Back" wood is from dead standing trees. Now it seems that these "Gray Back" trees may have died from a infected disease at an early age. Lets say that Ms MtnBikerChk firewood that he recieved consist of elm, oak and other species that was processed from "Gray Back" diseased trees. Lets say, Ms MtnBikerChk or any firewood purchaser, lives in a neighborhood that consist of alot of healthy elm and oak trees. What will happen to the healthy trees in that neighborhood when you deliver infested/deseased firewood into a healthy, tree studded neighborhood ?? Im just wondering if anyone purchasing firewood from "Gray Back" trees ever thought of that.
One other point, We do have plenty of healthy red and white oaks in this region. We do not have that oak wilt disease in this region, yet. Lets keep it that way.


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

manual said:


> Maybe MRfirewoodguy could get away with his Woody ways where he lives. and all the power to you.
> But the first time you go door to door with your "Designer Wood" in these parts. you would be in for a suprise. LOL
> Lets see I sell $hit wood with bugs crawling through it. "Good one"
> 
> Ok,I'm sure you have herd of the Birch Bore Beatle Bug. The DNR can't even kill them because they bore inside " live " trees,
> So how do they taste Kiln Dried.
> 
> Oh yea who did you get to grow your "Designer Wood" LOL



I have heard of the Birch Beatle Bug, buts its not in this region. If we ever become infested with the Birch Bug Disease in this region, I will have enough smarts in avoiding to sell ANY " Gray Back" or "Diseased Birch" species to any one or any body. 
"...So how do they taste Kiln Dried." !!!!!!!!!
I don't know where or what town our "Designer Wood" aka "White Birch" was grow. But I can tell you, I know it wasn't grow or shipped from MI or any other infestated quarantine region.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood

So the argument now is cross-contamination? Because before, it was just that the wood sucked, and wasn't good enough to sell or burn. 



Firewood Guy USA said:


> I know that if I ordered logs and or firewood from a dealer, and he delivered to me this so called dead and or gray back or what ever you want to call it, wood to me, I would tell him to take that sh*t back.


----------



## stihlatit

Originally Posted by MtnBikerChk 
we don't really have any kindling - we've been using "cheater logs" (duraflame firestart).

pics:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...k/IMG_5321.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...k/IMG_5320.jpg






Firewood Guy USA said:


> By looking at your photos, It looks like your firewood had been cut and split the same day of delivery. Due to it looks like its freshly cut and freshly split. The photos does not show any aging process like having a weathered look on the cut and split surfaces. The wood does show some punkyness. I would say the wood is from a dead standing tree or the log has been sitting around for quite some time, due to the photo's seems to show some loose bark. Seasoned firewood is usually logs that been processed (cut and split) and been aging for 3 to 9 months while in a finish product (cut and split) form. I guess every firewood dealer has a different version of what seasoned firewood is, but the consumer only has one version of what seasoned firewood is.



Looks like fresh jack pine to me.


----------



## stihlatit

Freakingstang said:


> Anything will burn, but the wetter, green wood takes more of the possible heating BTU's to dry out the wood before it burns.
> 
> I like Red and white oak. It produces a ton of heat, with minimal coals when dry. I won't burn it green. I split it and let it dry 6-12 months before burning.
> 
> I cut some this summer and tried burning it a week or so ago when it was really cold. It didn't burn well, just hissed and pop'd. I like to load the stove and go, not worry about milking it all day to get heat out of it.
> 
> Differant stoves will react differant to wood being green. Grandpa burns everything green. Just like saws, everyone has their favorite method. Do you notice a lot of creosete buildup burning green wood?



Freak I bet you don't have any Catelpa trees around. Try burning that and see if you can get past a smolder stage without additives.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood

stihlatit said:


> Originally Posted by MtnBikerChk
> we don't really have any kindling - we've been using "cheater logs" (duraflame firestart).
> 
> pics:
> http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...k/IMG_5321.jpg
> 
> http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...k/IMG_5320.jpg



Dead links for me Arnie.


----------



## grandpatractor

*oak wilt*

If bark is on oak trees the oak wilt fungi is alive. If the bark is falling off the tree the fungi is dead and it will not spread it needs a living tree. More apt to spread to healthy trees by cutting live diseased trees. at least that is what the county forester told me!
I'm not sure about how dutch elm is spread tho?


----------



## manual

Firewood Guy USA said:


> I have heard of the Birch Beatle Bug, buts its not in this region. If we ever become infested with the Birch Bug Disease in this region, I will have enough smarts in avoiding to sell ANY " Gray Back" or "Diseased Birch" species to any one or any body.
> "...So how do they taste Kiln Dried." !!!!!!!!!
> I don't know where or what town our "Designer Wood" aka "White Birch" was grow. But I can tell you, I know it wasn't grow or shipped from MI or any other infested quarantine region.



OaK Wilt is as common as a cold. I believe it is spread by open wounds in the tree. Mold spores. In a forest would be if branches break off from high winds,
you now have a open wound. or A tree service trims back a oak in the summer time.the open wound gets infected as soon as air hits it.
This is why it is best to trim oaks in the late fall to early spring.
Now the trees I am cutting for firewood sale are dead and are in between rows of Red pine stands. Why do you think these trees are dying.
Also Ash is the only wood that is Quarantined in Michigan and Nobody can take it out of the area. I do not live or cut in those areas.
I'll get back to you on the birch bore.


So there aint no bugs on me, No there aint no bugs on me, There might be Bugs on some of you slugs but there aint no Bugs on me.
BTW, Do you really think I or anybody Else is going to believe that your great big pile of wood is bug free.


----------



## MtnBikerChk

Firewood Guy USA said:


> ..snip.... Lets say that Mr MtnBikerChk firewood that he recieved consist of elm, oak and other species that was processed from "Gray Back" diseased trees. Lets say, Mr MtnBikerChk or any..
> ..



You're kidding me, right? "Mr MtnBikerChk?" :jawdrop:


----------



## PA Plumber

So, is Ms. Mountain Biker Chick more appropriate? :monkey:


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

grandpatractor said:


> If bark is on oak trees the oak wilt fungi is alive. If the bark is falling off the tree the fungi is dead and it will not spread it needs a living tree. More apt to spread to healthy trees by cutting live diseased trees. at least that is what the county forester told me!
> I'm not sure about how dutch elm is spread tho?



You post was interesting. Do you know if thats the same scenario with other species of trees, that had died with a fungus as to the spreading of a typical disease to other healther trees ??


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

manual said:


> OaK Wilt is as common as a cold. I believe it is spread by open wounds in the tree. Mold spores. In a forest would be if branches break off from high winds,
> you now have a open wound. or A tree service trims back a oak in the summer time.the open wound gets infected as soon as air hits it.
> This is why it is best to trim oaks in the late fall to early spring.
> Now the trees I am cutting for firewood sale are dead and are in between rows of Red pine stands. Why do you think these trees are dying.
> Also Ash is the only wood that is Quarantined in Michigan and Nobody can take it out of the area. I do not live or cut in those areas.
> I'll get back to you on the birch bore.
> 
> 
> So there aint no bugs on me, No there aint no bugs on me, There might be Bugs on some of you slugs but there aint no Bugs on me.
> BTW, Do you really think I or anybody Else is going to believe that your great big pile of wood is bug free.



I can see by reading you post about trimming in the winter time. I believe it also has the same effects when its suggesting to only prune home grown fruit trees during the same "winter" time frame.
I dont have a clue why trees die between Red pine !!!
If I'm not mistaken, MI is also a quarantine region for gypsy moth which is controled under the USDA/APHIS dept.
As to the BTW paragraph ( e.g. ....going to believe.......of wood is bug free....." I don't believe I ever said or stated that " we have bug free firewood " !! Having or stating that I / we have bug free wood is impossible to accomplish. There is always a possibility of having bugs and or insects in firewood, even after being treated. BUT, our firewood has been treated for bug and insect infestation and is approved by (USDA/APHIS, compliance agreement # GM-98-07) as being so. Of course, The USDA/APHIS; bug and insect infestation treatment program " IS NOT " a life time treatment, by any means. But, I can say that we have less bugs and or insect infestation (internally and externally) in our firewood than anyone else does, comparing to that of un-treated firewood.
But anyway, Happy New Year to you and all.


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

MtnBikerChk said:


> You're kidding me, right? "Mr MtnBikerChk?" :jawdrop:



Oops !! Sorry


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

PA Plumber said:


> So, is Ms. Mountain Biker Chick more appropriate? :monkey:



Oops !!! Sorry again

Happy New Year


----------



## JAM

*Oak Wilt*

I thought Oak Wilt was spread through the root system. The DNR was trenching to cut the roots between infected and non infected trees to stop the spread. Don't know if it worked or not, I moved out of that area shortly after that. They also said if your keeping infected Red Oak for firewood to strip the bark and take it to a DNR site so they could burn it. This was in the mpls. / st. paul area, we don't have Oak Wilt in the northern part of the state.


----------



## manual

JAM said:


> I thought Oak Wilt was spread through the root system. The DNR was trenching to cut the roots between infected and non infected trees to stop the spread. Don't know if it worked or not, I moved out of that area shortly after that. They also said if your keeping infected Red Oak for firewood to strip the bark and take it to a DNR site so they could burn it. This was in the mpls. / st. paul area, we don't have Oak Wilt in the northern part of the state.



One way of it spreading. It is also airborn.


----------



## stihlatit

fishhuntcutwood said:


> Dead links for me Arnie.



They are not my links Jeff they are in the quote.
from mtbkrchic.


----------



## manual

Firewood Guy USA said:


> I can see by reading you post about trimming in the winter time. I believe it also has the same effects when its suggesting to only prune home grown fruit trees during the same "winter" time frame.
> I dont have a clue why trees die between Red pine !!!
> If I'm not mistaken, MI is also a quarantine region for gypsy moth which is controled under the USDA/APHIS dept.
> As to the BTW paragraph ( e.g. ....going to believe.......of wood is bug free....." I don't believe I ever said or stated that " we have bug free firewood " !! Having or stating that I / we have bug free wood is impossible to accomplish. There is always a possibility of having bugs and or insects in firewood, even after being treated. BUT, our firewood has been treated for bug and insect infestation and is approved by (USDA/APHIS, compliance agreement # GM-98-07) as being so. Of course, The USDA/APHIS; bug and insect infestation treatment program " IS NOT " a life time treatment, by any means. But, I can say that we have less bugs and or insect infestation (internally and externally) in our firewood than anyone else does, comparing to that of un-treated firewood.
> But anyway, Happy New Year to you and all.



Well I thought you might have an Idea on why these trees are dying. My guess and it is a guess. 
The Oaks are dieing out because, the Red pine is changing the soil PH balance.
Glad you said your wood has bugs , I was beginning to think that your wood was better quality then mine. Guess not. 
You have a happy New Year too.


----------



## stihlatit

I tried the same links in your post #75 and they worked for me....try again Jeff.

OOppps nope they go to a page that says unfound...have to track it back Jeff.

Jeff went back to post#3 and copy pasted them and they were still dead. If you really want to see go to post #3 its the only place they will work, but you have allready seen them there a few days back.


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

manual said:


> Well I thought you might have an Idea on why these trees are dying. My guess and it is a guess.
> The Oaks are dieing out because, the Red pine is changing the soil PH balance.
> Glad you said your wood has bugs , I was beginning to think that your wood was better quality then mine. Guess not.
> You have a happy New Year too.



I seems to me, that you are missing the issue of not knowing what the K/D processing is, or the phases that are involved or the final outcome in treating firewood for insect and bug infestation. I will give you a crash course so you will have a better understanding. You commence from processing from living ( non diseased ) trees into firewood and place them in a kiln for 3 to 5 days at a average temperture of 180-190 degrees. Once the firewood is retreaved from the kiln's, any and all bugs and or insects that was present through out the firewood are now dead from the kiln drying process. So technicality speaking, we may have bugs/insects in our firewood, but they are now all dead bugs and or dead insects from being treated via Kiln Drying process. There is no such thing as having bug or insect free firewood unless you dissect each piece and extract each bug or insect from the firewood, which is impossible to do. Furthermore, Kiln Drying does not extract bugs and insect from firewood, as some people may think so. 
When you replied that you are real happy and glad to hear "..that my wood has bugs.... " But I failed to further explain or re-phrase in detail that " our firewood may or may not have bugs and or insects but any and all of the bugs and insects that was present before the kiln dring process, are all dead now ". Thats why we only advertise and offer that our firewood has been treated for bug and insect infestation. We DO NOT offer or have ever claimed to have bug free firewood.
As to the "..better quality then... " that you mentioned, let the consumer's make their own decision on who has the better quality.


----------



## manual

I know what you are saying by K/D wood. Thats why when I asked about the taste of K/D bugs.
End result My wood burns and your wood burns,
It's nice to see you have customers that will give there money to you so easy because it's designer wood. Wish I could find suckers around here to do the same.


----------



## Gologit

manual said:


> I know what you are saying by K/D wood. Thats why when I asked about the taste of K/D bugs.
> End result My wood burns and your wood burns,
> It's nice to see you have customers that will give there money to you so easy because it's designer wood. Wish I could find suckers around here to do the same.



Well,first you have to develop that "designer wood dealer" attitude


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

manual said:


> I know what you are saying by K/D wood. Thats why when I asked about the taste of K/D bugs.
> End result My wood burns and your wood burns,
> It's nice to see you have customers that will give there money to you so easy because it's designer wood. Wish I could find suckers around here to do the same.



I think the orginal issue, from what I gathered from reading your previous post that was being discussed is about who's having bugs and insects in their firewood. If I recall from reading the other post, all wood will eventually burns, even that so called "gray back". I guess if you now jump to another issue of thinking that "the end results" is "...wood burns and.....burns" . I think you will find from the consumers stand point that "not all firewood is created equal ". According to most consumers, there is more to quality than just having firewood to eventually burn. 
Just a suggestion, You might want to improve your attitude some what in stating "...have customers...." as being "....suckers...". I think that attitude will get you no where. Furthermore, you might even learn something new if you listen to your customers suggestions or other suggestions that being presented. Of course, you don't have to go though life having a negative attitude, either. 
I guess in closing, dont you wish you were firewoodguy.com. Lighten up some !!
Happy New Year !!


----------



## JAM

*Firewood*

WOW, This thread really went off the subject but made some entertaining reading!


----------



## manual

Firewood Guy USA said:


> I think the orginal issue, from what I gathered from reading your previous post that was being discussed is about who's having bugs and insects in their firewood. If I recall from reading the other post, all wood will eventually burns, even that so called "gray back". I guess if you now jump to another issue of thinking that "the end results" is "...wood burns and.....burns" . I think you will find from the consumers stand point that "not all firewood is created equal ". According to most consumers, there is more to quality than just having firewood to eventually burn.
> Just a suggestion, You might want to improve your attitude some what in stating "...have customers...." as being "....suckers...". I think that attitude will get you no where. Furthermore, you might even learn something new if you listen to your customers suggestions or other suggestions that being presented. Of course, you don't have to go though life having a negative attitude, either.
> I guess in closing, dont you wish you were firewoodguy.com. Lighten up some !!
> Happy New Year !!



All righty then,
you sell your wood for what I understand 400.00 a 1/3 cord because why ? 
you kilned dried it. 
Now what do you sell your wood for if you air dry it ? 

Also if your ever in California, and travel through the central cost Hyw.101
Stop in Nipomo and go the the resturant called Jacos. And have your self a Santa Maria BBQ Dinner. or if you are lucky you can just travel through Santa Maria on a week end and eat at a stand raising money for something. Let me tell you why I say this.
You will get a cut of Beef called Tri Tip along with Santa Maria Beens, Salad and Bread All cooked over Oak, Red Oak, I can assure you that none of that wood was Kiln Dried. 
People are lined up to eat at Jacos, everyday, Eating steak cooked over non Kiln Dried wood. "The Nerve, ay" 
Guess what Jacos pays 180.00 a 1/3 cord and thats in California. All I have ever seen growing around Nipomo is Eucalyptus, so there Oak is trucked in at least 75 miles away.
Now Back here in Buggy, Dead wood Michigan I am lucky to get $65.00 a 1/3 cord of wood delivered, in my area. 
Now a guy that sells our firewood down State in Oakland County. (One of the top ten Richest county's in the U.S.) Gets $100.00 a 1/3 cord of wood. He told me he would buy 20 face cords of firewood at a time, He picks at 50 a face.
What I am telling you is that you a very lucky to sell your wood the way you are. And this shows me there are suckers in your area buying it.
So lets get back to Seasoned Wood. What does "Seasoned Wood" mean ?
It means the wood is dry enough to burn "Aged" Standing dead wood is already age Natures way, A good wood tick like myself and others can tell if its aged enough to sell as soon as it is cut. And will burn right away.
Kiln drying only speeds up the drying process, Yes it cost more to process so I understand you have to absorb your cost in your product.

You might want to take a little advice from me and don't belittle other guys because the don't kiln dry there wood. Palletize and shrink rap it.


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

manual said:


> All righty then,
> you sell your wood for what I understand 400.00 a 1/3 cord because why ?
> you kilned dried it.
> Now what do you sell your wood for if you air dry it ?
> 
> Also if your ever in California, and travel through the central cost Hyw.101
> Stop in Nipomo and go the the resturant called Jacos. And have your self a Santa Maria BBQ Dinner. or if you are lucky you can just travel through Santa Maria on a week end and eat at a stand raising money for something. Let me tell you why I say this.
> You will get a cut of Beef called Tri Tip along with Santa Maria Beens, Salad and Bread All cooked over Oak, Red Oak, I can assure you that none of that wood was Kiln Dried.
> People are lined up to eat at Jacos, everyday, Eating steak cooked over non Kiln Dried wood. "The Nerve, ay"
> Guess what Jacos pays 180.00 a 1/3 cord and thats in California. All I have ever seen growing around Nipomo is Eucalyptus, so there Oak is trucked in at least 75 miles away.
> Now Back here in Buggy, Dead wood Michigan I am lucky to get $65.00 a 1/3 cord of wood delivered, in my area.
> Now a guy that sells our firewood down State in Oakland County. (One of the top ten Richest county's in the U.S.) Gets $100.00 a 1/3 cord of wood. He told me he would buy 20 face cords of firewood at a time, He picks at 50 a face.
> What I am telling you is that you a very lucky to sell your wood the way you are. And this shows me there are suckers in your area buying it.
> So lets get back to Seasoned Wood. What does "Seasoned Wood" mean ?
> It means the wood is dry enough to burn "Aged" Standing dead wood is already age Natures way, A good wood tick like myself and others can tell if its aged enough to sell as soon as it is cut. And will burn right away.
> Kiln drying only speeds up the drying process, Yes it cost more to process so I understand you have to absorb your cost in your product.
> 
> You might want to take a little advice from me and don't belittle other guys because the don't kiln dry there wood. Palletize and shrink rap it.



First of all. I think your understanding is some what in-correct. Before you even think or to start to pass stories around about me, Get your facts straight first. I don't like people in passing around un-true stories. First of all, we charge $405.00 for a 1/3 cord "NOT" $400.00 as you stated :hmm3grin2orange: plus a delivery:hmm3grin2orange: So we now have that subject squared away.
It seems to me that anyone that sells or purchase firewood where the cost is greater than ($65.00 for 1/3 cord ) what you are selling firewood for are :hmm3grin2orange: , in your words are "...Suckers...." and or "...Suckers in your area.." . You mentioned that CA pays $180.00 for 1/3 cord, you also mentioned that Oakland County pays $100.00 for 1/3 cord, We also sell to local BBQ resturants and local chains of nationwide resturants too for alot more than $405.00 . I guess that you also insinuating that all these firewood dealers and consumers are " Sucker's " too ? I guess in your eye's, I must be the biggest " Sucker" in the world or universe for selling specialty firewood up to $933.34 for 1/3 cord, plus shipping OR selling specialty BBQ chunks for $62.50 cubic foot ( e.g $2,666.63 per 1/3 cord) plus shipping) ?? Hmmm.
Its amazing how you can just judge people without even knowing all the facts first. Oh Well !!
As to your question as to what is seasoned wood ? Hmmm, and you sell firewood and you don't have a clue as to what seasoned firewood is ?? :deadhorse: 
I do know that the definition for green wood is ; freshly cut wood. Is there any part of that you don't understand ??
Furthermore, I'm in no way in "belittle"ing you or other guy's and or anyone else. Though, I do think that sometimes, the shoe is on the other foot. If you and or anyone else can sell firewood for $65.00 for 1/3 cord, good luck to you. But don't think for one minute that I'm going to lower my standards to you in undercutting your prices.
Anyway, I think this is getting somewhat off track. I think the orginal main topic was refering to gray back issues and or firewood wont burn. Any other issues that you been posting, you should start another thread to continue your issues.


----------



## manual

I never called you a sucker, No need to call you names.
Also I said You have a good thing going on with your wood sales.


Now the average income around here is in the 10.00 dollar an hour .
@ 40 hours a week = 400.00 - taxes, a person could not afford to pay what you are asking.
Do your employees buy your wood for heat. I'm willing to bet not.

I have already told you what Seasoned wood is please read post again.
If you think I am wrong please inform me, your reasons why.

Why do you insist that I am selling green Wood ? I showed you how the wood I am selling burns. no steam and I just cut it two days before the picture was taken. No bugs eather.
Now lets sit aside your kilned dryed wood for awhile, and look at you air dryed seasoned wood.

A) does it come from the forest ? Mine Does too.
B) do you cut, split stack or pile ? So do I.


What now makes yours so much better.


I pay $650.00 For 10 full cords delivered to my wood lot $1,100.00 for 20 full cord.
If you don't mind me asking, What are you paying in your area ?


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

manual said:


> I never called you a sucker, No need to call you names.
> Also I said You have a go thing going on with your wood sales.
> 
> 
> Now the average income around here is in the 10.00 dollar an hour .
> @ 40 hours a week = 400.00 - taxes, a person could not afford to pay what you are asking.
> Do your employees buy your wood for heat. I'm willing to bet not.
> 
> I have already told you what Seasoned wood is please read post again.
> If you think I am wrong please inform me, your reasons why.
> 
> Why do you insist that I am selling green Wood ? I showed you how the wood I am selling burns. no steam and I just cut it two days before the picture was taken. No bugs eather.
> Now lets sit aside your kilned dryed wood for awhile, and look at you air dryed seasoned wood.
> 
> A) does it come from the forest ? Mine Does too.
> B) do you cut, split stack or pile ? So do I.
> 
> 
> What now makes yours so much better.
> 
> 
> I pay $650.00 For 10 full cords delivered to my wood lot $1,100.00 for 20 full cord.
> If you don't mind me asking, What are you paying in your area ?



Manual, I think to continue your topic, this should be under the "Business Managemnent" section. Again this topic was orginally (firewood wont burn ) and I think its getting off track nor do I think its fair for the author and or other viewers to continue this descussion. But I can't answer most of your guestions due to the fact that I dont know or we are in a different region that you are. But, It seams that I may be selling to a different clientell than you are in your region. I guess, If you are satisfied with the way your firewood operations, thats really all that counts.


----------



## manual

Anybody got problem with this thread going on here.
Please speak up. Moderators, Anybody ?
If so I would be glad to take it somewhere else.


----------



## PA Plumber

No problem here manual. 

I have been trying to follow it, but it hasn't made much sense to me yet. There is the high likely hood I am not the sharpest crayon in the box. I keep working at trying to understand the logic, but it seems more like attitudes than anything. 

I have been concerned that it would hit the gutter a couple of times, but so far it's been mostly civil.


----------



## Urbicide

grandpatractor said:


> If bark is on oak trees the oak wilt fungi is alive. If the bark is falling off the tree the fungi is dead and it will not spread it needs a living tree. More apt to spread to healthy trees by cutting live diseased trees. at least that is what the county forester told me!
> I'm not sure about how dutch elm is spread tho?



I have quite a few elm trees on my property. A lot of them are standing dead. Dutch elm disease is caused by a fungus that is carried to the elm trees by the elm beetle. You would have thought that all of the elm trees would have been killed off long ago. Young elm trees are resistant to the disease until they reach a certain size. It allows the elms to continue to reproduce. It is kind of a rare sight to have a mature healthy elm. I guess that if an elm was isolated from other elms it would stand a better chance of avoiding the elm beetles. Mature elms are majestic to look at. They have a very pronounced root flair that makes them easy to spot.


----------



## laynes69

I cut "Green" wood and it burns just fine. The difference is its been standing dead for years and is seasoned. I don't have a problem with things here, and I am trying to follow the thread. Most people in my area cut standing dead or down trees for heat. All the wood is very hard and doesn't hiss or foam when burning. Burns clean and all night, no different than kiln dried wood. The best part is all the wood is free, and its cleaning up our forests. I feel there is nothing wrong with cutting standing dead firewood, or good downed trees. I don't find it necessary to cut the green live trees, because I want the trees around me. Also everyone I know that burns wood would buy dead trees. Around here wood is 120.00 a full cord, or 40 a face cord.


----------



## MtnBikerChk

PA Plumber said:


> No problem here manual.
> 
> I have been trying to follow it, but it hasn't made much sense to me yet. There is the high likely hood I am not the sharpest crayon in the box. I keep working at trying to understand the logic, but it seems more like attitudes than anything.
> 
> I have been concerned that it would hit the gutter a couple of times, but so far it's been mostly civil.


----------



## GLM

I call green wood wood that is wet, if you put it in the fire and it hisses its green, and you put it in the fire and it goes up in a ball of flames and does not hiss then its safe to say it's seasoned even if it was still standing. All of my wood comes from tree jobs. Last year I got a job cutting up about six large locust that came down in a storm. They were about 18" in diameter and all were laying on the ground when I got there. One of them had been standing but obviosly dead, the saw chips from this tree were absoultly dry all the way through half of the bark was off and the stuff weighed half of the weight of the other trees, I wish I had a video of me splitting this stuff all you had to do was put some pressure on the log and it sounded like a gunshot and the peices would land four feet off the end of the splitter, the first couple of logs scared the #$#% out of me, this stuff was unreal, I never had to make a full cycle on one of those dry dead logs, they just popped and shot right out the end of the splitter four way nad all, needless to say I tried burning a few pieces that night and could not believe how hot those logs burned. The locust burned no were near as long as red or white oak what I normally get, but the stuff burns great in the spring and fall when I dont need the fire as hot and can feed it a little more often, MtnBikerChk you will know when you get some dry wood it will start real easy and burn clean when you get it nice and hot. Here in Mass. you can get green wet wood or nice dry wood and both guys will tell you that its seasoned  . You need to look at he stuff your buying and if it looks no good tell them you don't want it. When I sold wood I sold it as "green" for about half of what it was worth seasoned, the stuff was fresh cut and wet so it went out discounted. I needed the room and some wood had to go, would I sell that as seasoned? NO no one would call me again If I sold green wet wood for top dollar. The term I see in the paper all the time is "forest fresh" lol there is a place right down the street from me selling cords for $285 seasoned but when I drove buy to check it out for lack of anything better to do, the stuff was so dirty/muddy from being pushed up with a front end loader, you would be shoveling the dirt out of your stove all winter, it was seasoned because the pile was there last year too, look at what your buying, I would always tell people to come out and look at the load I was droping off before I dumped it and make sure that they were satisfied with quality and quantity, never had any problems because they had a say right up until the stuff hit the ground. Wood is tough to buy unseen you either need to trust the person selling it to you or you need to look at the load. Good luck Jon


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

GLM said:


> I call green wood wood that is wet, if you put it in the fire and it hisses its green, and you put it in the fire and it goes up in a ball of flames and does not hiss then its safe to say it's seasoned even if it was still standing. All of my wood comes from tree jobs. Last year I got a job cutting up about six large locust that came down in a storm. They were about 18" in diameter and all were laying on the ground when I got there. One of them had been standing but obviosly dead, the saw chips from this tree were absoultly dry all the way through half of the bark was off and the stuff weighed half of the weight of the other trees, I wish I had a video of me splitting this stuff all you had to do was put some pressure on the log and it sounded like a gunshot and the peices would land four feet off the end of the splitter, the first couple of logs scared the #$#% out of me, this stuff was unreal, I never had to make a full cycle on one of those dry dead logs, they just popped and shot right out the end of the splitter four way nad all, needless to say I tried burning a few pieces that night and could not believe how hot those logs burned. The locust burned no were near as long as red or white oak what I normally get, but the stuff burns great in the spring and fall when I dont need the fire as hot and can feed it a little more often, MtnBikerChk you will know when you get some dry wood it will start real easy and burn clean when you get it nice and hot. Here in Mass. you can get green wet wood or nice dry wood and both guys will tell you that its seasoned  . You need to look at he stuff your buying and if it looks no good tell them you don't want it. When I sold wood I sold it as "green" for about half of what it was worth seasoned, the stuff was fresh cut and wet so it went out discounted. I needed the room and some wood had to go, would I sell that as seasoned? NO no one would call me again If I sold green wet wood for top dollar. The term I see in the paper all the time is "forest fresh" lol there is a place right down the street from me selling cords for $285 seasoned but when I drove buy to check it out for lack of anything better to do, the stuff was so dirty/muddy from being pushed up with a front end loader, you would be shoveling the dirt out of your stove all winter, it was seasoned because the pile was there last year too, look at what your buying, I would always tell people to come out and look at the load I was droping off before I dumped it and make sure that they were satisfied with quality and quantity, never had any problems because they had a say right up until the stuff hit the ground. Wood is tough to buy unseen you either need to trust the person selling it to you or you need to look at the load. Good luck Jon




Its also would be a good idear to visit the dealers firewod yard and or to be present when you have a firewood delivery. This way, you can check and inspect the firewood before payment is made and or before being unloaded. Just be sure you know what to look for or know what to ask when you order firewood. You want to make sure the firewood you seen is the firewood that you are going to be recieving.My 2 cents worth.


----------



## pyromaniac guy

Firewood Guy USA said:


> But I can't answer most of your guestions due to the fact that I dont know




seems to be the main answer right here....


you actually have homeowners that will spend over $1200 on a cord of wood? to burn?


----------



## Firewood Guy USA

pyromaniac guy said:


> seems to be the main answer right here....
> 
> 
> you actually have homeowners that will spend over $1200 on a cord of wood? to burn?



No, Thats the unit pricing. A 1/3 cord may last an average home owner 1 to 3 years to use up. And average home owner might use 10 bundles of firewood a year @ 5.00 bundle ( unit pricing $ 853.00 per cord). Don't home owners or camping people buy bundle firewood in your region or partial cords ?? I guess partial cords in your area are refered to as a face cords, ricks and etc.


----------



## pyromaniac guy

Firewood Guy USA said:


> No, Thats the unit pricing. A 1/3 cord may last an average home owner 1 to 3 years to use up. And average home owner might use 10 bundles of firewood a year @ 5.00 bundle ( unit pricing $ 853.00 per cord). Don't home owners or camping people buy bundle firewood in your region or partial cords ?? I guess partial cords in your area are refered to as a face cords, ricks and etc.



most of the campgrounds around here sell a dole banana box full of wood for $5. i never buy it, though, since i have more than enough in our woods here. 

everyone here (most people, anyway) buys either full cords or truckloads...


----------



## jerry wayne

*Dont Shop Vac Ashes Duhhhh*

:newbie: DO NOT - I REPETE - DO NOT CLEAN YOUR ASHES ALL THE WAY OUT WITH A WET DRY VAC.YOU HAVE TO HAVE OLD ASHES IN THERE ALL THE TIME , AT LEAST A COUPLE INCHS OR SO .... HELPS HOLD THE COALS IN PLACE ... JUST A LEARNIN ONE MISTAKE AT A TIME...... LIKE MOST


----------



## derbyguy_78

*wood identication*



okietreedude1 said:


> the stuff looks almost rotten. If so, it aint gonna burn worth much but the smoke will be something else.
> 
> And like wilson said, get your chimney cleaned & inspected, it helps prevent chimney fires.



:taped: that wood wouldnt happen yo be dome punky elm would it guys?please let me know also


----------



## MtnBikerChk

jerry wayne said:


> :newbie: DO NOT - I REPETE - DO NOT CLEAN YOUR ASHES ALL THE WAY OUT WITH A WET DRY VAC.YOU HAVE TO HAVE OLD ASHES IN THERE ALL THE TIME , AT LEAST A COUPLE INCHS OR SO .... HELPS HOLD THE COALS IN PLACE ... JUST A LEARNIN ONE MISTAKE AT A TIME...... LIKE MOST



how about some web manners DUUUHHHHH 

and ps - way to be TIMELY


----------

