# spotted owl bs



## bwalker (Oct 17, 2003)

Looks like the loggers where right after all.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100354,00.html


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## caryr (Oct 17, 2003)




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## Reed (Oct 17, 2003)

All anyone needs to know is your source was Fox News. Same outfit that had WMD's aimed at the U.S. and us winning in Afghanistan. Bill O'Reilly and Rush. 

Did you read the AP survey that said the 70% of Americans who felt Saddam was connected to 9/11 all had one factor to share - Fox News.


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## Crofter (Oct 17, 2003)

Oak; When its what one wanted to believe anyway, the proof needs no basis in fact; but you knew that already I suspect!

Frank


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## caryr (Oct 17, 2003)




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## bwalker (Oct 17, 2003)

> I'm not trying to be mean, but if you want to refute this story you need to have some facts pertinent to it. Nothing in your previous post had anything to do with the discussion at hand!


Typical Oakwilt. If you cant prove apoint with factual info bombard them with BS.


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## caryr (Oct 17, 2003)




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## ORclimber (Oct 17, 2003)

I think the owls and loggers are in the same boat, adapt or die. My money's on the loggers, those owls aren't too bright.


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## TREETX (Oct 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by oakwilt _
> *All anyone needs to know is your source was Fox News. Same outfit that had WMD's aimed at the U.S. and us winning in Afghanistan. Bill O'Reilly and Rush.
> 
> Did you read the AP survey that said the 70% of Americans who felt Saddam was connected to 9/11 all had one factor to share - Fox News. *



Wow, you pegged this crowd dead on OW. You can tell by the bitterness in the retort(s).

Cary - BTW- OW never refuted the story. 

Uhh, yeah, that did have something to do with the subject, the source of the info makes a big difference. When you hear it from the Sierra Club, you know it is a bunch of slanted BS. Same when you hear it from the "I'm gonna cut all my trees and shoot sum owls 'cuz I'm Uhhmerkan dammit!"

Uhmerikans don't need the rest of the world to make us look stupid, we do just fine on our own.

The sad fact about exporting these logging jobs is that one forest is saved from "damage to habitat" while another in some 3rd world country is being obliterated.

In the end, we will find that MUSY is the only way to go. 200yr rotations make no sense when compared to 20-30yr rotations in other regions.

Every time I hear "exporting jobs" this famous quote comes to mind:

*I'm holding out for something better. I figure: phuck it, while I'm at it why not just shoot my buddy, take his job, give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected President.*


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## bwalker (Oct 17, 2003)

> In the end, we will find that MUSY is the only way to go.


 Try selling that to the enviro wackos.


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## TREETX (Oct 17, 2003)

Oakwilt may rag on me for posting this TAMU publication, but it *is* a good read.

http://oldforest.tamu.edu/PAGE files/CFA2d 2.htm


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## ORclimber (Oct 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TREETX _
> *200yr rotations make no sense when compared to 20-30yr rotations in other regions.
> /b] *



My understanding is that the short rotations ARE here in the PNW on Weyerhauser ground. 

The main reasons IMO that the spotted owl debate is mute is that the rotation was already screwed up before it, and mechanical efficiency of mills made the huge forest industry labor base obsolete. Old growth trees had major board feet in them, it takes lots of second/third growth trees to make the same board feet as one old growth tree. It takes several hundred years to grow an old growth tree, there is only so much ground to grow trees on....eventually the industry couldn't maintain production. At the same time, mills were becoming more automated, needing less employees. Also, at the same time, the American public is demanding tighter environmental controls, replant, leave riparian strips, wildlife trees, don't slash burn unless the wind is blowing the right direction, etc. 

I've seen the corporate greed on NW timberlands. International paper supposedly made 1/2 the multinational companies profits off 100,000 acres in OR/WA when I worked their. Boise Cascade cut and ran/stripped in Clatsop County in the early '90's. I heard 150 loads a day coming off that ground at the end. Chainsaws cut faster than trees can grow.

The spotted owl is a dumb bird. It will pick a mouse off a human's shoulder. I don't know any dumb loggers, some are better educated than others, but they all have a lot of common sense. Ever seen a mile long skyline? If there's a way to get logs out profitably, they'll figure it out.


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## caryr (Oct 22, 2003)




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## Crofter (Oct 22, 2003)

The spotted owl became a symbol for something much bigger than merely another species involved in the process of succession. (extinction is too emotional a word) There will always be this ongoing debate between environmentalists and resource extraction proponents. Both camps have the ignorant and radical, both camps overstate their case and hire professionals to ridicule and discredit the other. There is some thruth on each side. As individuals we are left to try to sort out the big picture solution. One of the North Amercan native cultures puported to make decisions based on what would be best for the people seven generations down the road. Oh that we could be so wise!

Frank


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## Reed (Oct 22, 2003)

Bingo.

Multi-generational considerations however, do not make the share holders or board member's salaries astronomical and instant. 

I believe nowdays what we have is instant rewards - an interesting parallel to the Rhesus monkey's offered cocaine but in leu of sex or food. They opted for the coke until they died. 

Selflessness. That's what I thought Jesus was all about. I guess I was taught wrong way back when.


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## caryr (Oct 23, 2003)




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