# tall skinny pines



## Bradley (Jul 15, 2002)

Ok, here's a question. I've got some tall skinny pines that need to come out. There are about 6 of them and they are the tallest, skinniest ones I've ever seen. None of them are bigger than my thigh, and they are between 65' and 80+' tall. They are in a backyard with tons of dogwoods under them that can't be harmed. Some have beetles. I took out one of them about a year ago and it was a pain climbing it with spikes because it was so skinny. My 250 lbs made that tree into an amusement park ride to say the least. These things scare me to be in them, I'd rather be in a big tree. How would you guys go about getting them down? Would you worry about climbing them being so skinny? Thanks, Steve.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Looking for strength to tie in to, whether independant or healthy pine of group, sometimes tying in to 2 independant upper support anchors.

Looking to dump at least as much weight out of tree, as i weigh very early in trade for my visit, perhaps lil guys are good for something write JP?

Looking to climb least amount by calculating lays or topping utilizing ground space to max. using stick trick of calculating both, taking in 360 degerees of possibilitease, perhaps looking what trees might come out to make others easier, or which might be saved for rigging, or to protect house etc. Sometimes topping a tree, yet leaving 20' stump standing for rigging etc. 

Looking to max. safety, limiting slide on skinny pines by giving lanyard a round turn on skinny spar, to dead man in case of slippage, perhaps also using lifeline redirect sling/beaner as 3rd tie in in a choke formation.

Looking to minimze 'air ride' in the convertible by letting top fly away before 1:30 on the clock, sending the resultant kick back down the spar through strongest axis(every action will have an opposite and equal re-action), rather than letting it go further (2:00-3:00)and it pushing or pulling on spar horizontally, at its weakest axis. Looking to get a clean immediate tearoff/fly a-weigh on topping, a bending over and serving to line with least shock in rigging generally.

If rigging, disperse force among other high anchor supports, look at running rope for less pull on anchor(s).

Looking not to bluff, or work near powerlines, or allow any swinging of anything into lines, esp. not climber!

Well that might due for a start........

O, and don't trust deadwood too much!


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## treeman82 (Jul 15, 2002)

Are you able to swing these guys out of other trees? With the sizes you speak of possibly using 2 different lowering ropes in order to reduce weight on a single tree.


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## o0_TreeMan_0o (Jul 15, 2002)

You can place a rope in another tree and tie off in the top and cut the tree from the stump up a block at the time until you can lower the rest to the ground. I have used that method when another tree was close enough and strong enough and it worked well.


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## Greg (Jul 15, 2002)

I've been there and those skinney suckers are scary!! When ever I'm in somthing that small I alwas make sure to have a webbing loop girthed around the spar, moving it as I go. The sling will grab much better than a flip line or most lanyard configurations. If those trees are dead, especially due to bettles there is no way I would climb them at all. Rent an ariel lift, you could use a scissor lift, they make many that will fit in very tight places, they only go up and down, but that sounds like all you need to do anyway.
Greg


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## Kevin (Jul 15, 2002)

o0,
Is this what you mean...


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## o0_TreeMan_0o (Jul 15, 2002)

Yes but i only use one tree to rope from and i pull the target tree into the tree i am roping from before i make the cut. that way there is less chance for swing after the cut.


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## treeclimber165 (Jul 15, 2002)

Yup, I agree with 0o. I've done pines like this and I was lucky enough to have several fairly close. Set a bullrope in your target tree as high as you can with a running bowline. Then I'd pick the fattest, tallest tree within 10'-15' of your target tree and set the bull rope in it. Get a couple wraps and then hinge your target tree towards the other tree. Then start cutting 3'-4' chunks off the bottom, letting the trunk 'walk' down untill the trunk is straight up and down. You can steer the removal tree by which direction you cut. Once the tree is totally hanging by the rope, off the ground, you can let it down as needed as you cut it up.


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## Bradley (Jul 15, 2002)

Thanks for the replys. I have cut many small pines by hanging them from another tree and cutting from the ground up while lowering. Unfortuneately, there are no other large trees left around these. 

Only 2 have beetles right now and I don't think they are compromised.

Treespyder, are you talking about cutting a skinny wedge as opposed to an open face notch? What kind of cut do you like to send the top out at 1:30? Do you usually put a pull line in a top? I normally cut a reverse notch (Humboldt) when taking tops. I don't know why, just easier for me to cut maybe. See any problem with this?

What about guying skinny trees like this to take the shake out of them? 

Thanks, Steve.


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## DDM (Jul 15, 2002)

Brian? when hanging a tree like that what kind of cut do you think would be best for the first cut upper cut?


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## treeclimber165 (Jul 16, 2002)

Dunno what 'the book' says, but I like to use a humbolt (?) notch. That way the butt can slide off the stump. I usually make the cut about 4 feet off the ground, letting the butt slide off and stick in the ground. The top will swing down untill the rope pulls tight, as you cut chunks the top will straighten out.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jul 16, 2002)

i been going with conventional, removing fibre from either side, so saw can come thru with least amount of fibre to cut at the end.

i go with fair lean, guys pulling From above the center of gravity of the top to be cut and/or cutting at about waist high, pushing with highest leverage i can at chest and and hand at chin leve; anything to place it to the face positively.

Then, cut and race that hinge, gun in at fair speed and then hammer it as she goes to fail/fholde, trying to get it to fly away early. Push the kill switch, put saw out from body and slap free hand down on top firmly, any wobble, i try to stay in same spot in air, slowing spar down. But, really try not to get any at all.

As it slants more the kickoff can go across the free end of the spar, causing more motion, slants much further before tearoff and it pulls the spar forward and lets go of it i think, 'boininging' it still in my mind. So, i have been playing and settled to working towards it taking off for the early 1:00 + train as minimum 'twang'. Try to get it to commit, leave less fibre to hold it, and fly threw the cut at that point; has been working for me..


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## DDM (Jul 16, 2002)

Spidy? did you ever think about writing Technical Manuals ?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jul 16, 2002)

Bradly asks:

"What about guying skinny trees like this to take the shake out of them? "

That's what I was going to suggest, it sure couldn't hurt. 
Another possibility is to guy a nearby tree, and tie into that.


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## Kevin (Jul 16, 2002)

Spidy,
That sounds a little risky without using a hinge to control the top unless you`re working with small pieces.

Guys will reduce your drop zone somewhat.

Sometimes you have to choose a broken dogwood over a broken neck.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jul 16, 2002)

Wow, good point!

i like guying them against lean. Perhaps tightening guy line as weight comes off and top stands up, slackening guy, allowing impacting of desatabilized head as you werk. But, that only happens in bigger ones.

In straight pines, i like 3/1 pull one way, then gently tighten back to straight with the truck the other way. i look at it like welding 2 braces, at that angle of line, to the leveraged point of the spar. 

Then sometimes i will tie in to that area, sometimes even below, then feed lifeline up through choked sling/'biners, like a mountain climber picture, imagining fail at several points, and how i would be caught, with minimal fall. i use my rigging slings for this on the way up, topping off with my saved lifeline re-direct sling, that will be downgraded to rigging at some point. The slings after set make good hand holds, mini footholds, click right to belt as werking way back down, and for rigging some. When ever i use any rigging stuff for person-all atatchment,, it is always for safety, over and above the recomended 1,2 tie ins required. So i am tied in with lifeline, have lanyard dead manned around spar, and might use an in place sling, especially if it is the most comfortable attatchment and closeness.

P.S. i only cut threw the hinge after force and face are committed, can be tricky and all of the sudden, therefore the precutting and saw choice to facilitate immediate detatchment, and the making positively, mechanically sure it is moving away from me, also pushing base with hand. 

Things fall from their center of balance, so if you pull below it, it can leave that center of balance behind, to come straight down on ya, you have to take leverage and/or power over the center of balance, and pull it forward.


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## Greg (Jul 16, 2002)

I used to stricktly do tops with a 45d humbolt, however after reading the debates and my own practical testing I have found that a wide open face cut with small hinge (not cut away) gives the least amount of sling shot effect. 
I've heard people refer to that method of cutting a tree as the "Indian Trick" Tieing the top off of another tree and lowering it down, cutting sections from the ground. I think everyone has done this with large limbs being lowered into a small area, same principle as when felling.
Greg


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## TREETX (Jul 16, 2002)

does your thigh have a 20 to 25 inch diameter?? I figure that a large thigh is what, 12" in diameter?? I would like to see a 12" DBH s.y.pine that is 65-80 feet tall. That would have to be a record. With absolutley no taper, these trees sound like a mensurational miracle.


mensuration being the part of forestry dedicated to biometrics (definition before I get accused of pulling a Forrest)


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## o0_TreeMan_0o (Jul 16, 2002)

I agree with you Greg, on the way you cut your tops. i ALWAYS leave hinge wood. I have seen climbers dragged to the ground by a top when it kicked off on top of them.

When I am sure the top is over and away I drop my saw on it's lanyard and bend my knees and elbows while holding on to the stub. Helps to keep my spurs from kicking out.


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